# Mobile photography



## Nugget00 (May 26, 2016)

Hi.
I'm new in photography and I don't have a professional camera, so I'm using my phone for taking photos. I watched a lot of tutorials for start, but I was wondering if anyone of you could help me with starting. I know the basics, like using HDR, when to set ISO to smaller ot higher etc. 
So, if you have any tips for start I would like to hear them.


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## Ysarex (May 26, 2016)

Get a camera. Don't watch the tutorials that pass out bad info, for example what did you learn that ISO does?

Joe


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## jcdeboever (May 26, 2016)

What's ISO? Lol. Get a camera and post pics on here with your settings and comment on what you would like clarification on.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## Nugget00 (May 26, 2016)

Well, I watched a guy on youtube and he said that ISO can be used to define light sensitivity of your camera and to decrease shutter speed. Like, the higher ISO, less light is needed for picture.


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## Nugget00 (May 26, 2016)

I don't know the full name for ISO, you can look on google


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## Ysarex (May 26, 2016)

Nugget00 said:


> Well, I watched a guy on youtube and he said that ISO can be used to define light sensitivity of your camera and to decrease shutter speed. Like, the higher ISO, less light is needed for picture.



ISO stands for International Organization for Standardization. The guy on Youtube was wrong, but that's to be expected. Youtube is the largest repository of misinformation the human species has ever brought together in one place. Which begs the question, what are you doing there?

You actually have a bit of a tricky problem here. Photo is a very popular avocation and practiced by nearly everyone to some degree. So it stands to reason there's a lot of bad info out there. Sorry I can't point you to a single source of all the good info (but watch out for Youtube!). This one's not too bad but they get ISO wrong: Cambridge in Colour - Photography Tutorials & Learning Community

Here's a hint about ISO in a digital camera: Changing it doesn't alter the sensitivity of anything.

Joe


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## Designer (May 26, 2016)

When using a camera that only has "automatic" available, changing the ISO will make the shutter speed change.  

When you begin looking at cameras with more variables, you will find that this method of changing the shutter speed is generally not needed because you can change the shutter speed independently of the ISO setting.  

It is quite common to put the ISO into automatic mode, particularly if concentrating on the shutter speed and aperture setting.


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## KmH (May 26, 2016)

*Cell Phone Cameras & Camera Phones*


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## Nugget00 (May 26, 2016)

So it looks like youtube is not a good place for learning this type of thing. Thank you for answers


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## Designer (May 26, 2016)

Nugget00 said:


> So it looks like youtube is not a good place for learning this type of thing. Thank you for answers


Don't write off YouTube entirely.  There are good ones mixed in with the not-so-good ones.


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## Ysarex (May 26, 2016)

Nugget00 said:


> So it looks like youtube is not a good place for learning this type of thing. Thank you for answers



It can be -- the problem is vetting the source. If you're really new at something then you don't have the tools you need to critically examine the source of information. There's some good stuff on Youtube, but here's how I describe it to my students. You're in a sewer and the gunk is 5 inches above your wrists with your hands on the bottom. In the next 100 yards are a dozen precious gem stones. Get on your hands and knees and work your way through -- you'll find them.

Joe

P.S. In a digital camera the sensor is light sensitive. It's light sensitivity is fixed in manufacture and can not be raised or lowered. It is what it is and it's staying what it is. The base ISO value for the camera is a fair rating of the light sensitivity of the sensor. So for example 200 is the lowest (base) ISO value for my camera and so it's reasonable to say that my camera's sensor is ISO 200 light sensitive (an oversimplification but we can live with that for now).

If I raise the ISO value on my camera it has no effect on the sensor and does not in any way change the light sensitivity of the sensor. Changing the ISO does two things: 1. It puts a spin on the light meter and causes the meter to calculate different exposure parameters. So if for example my meter had calculated 1/100 sec. shutter speed at f/8 lens aperture with the ISO at 200 then with the ISO at 800 it might recalculate those parameters as 1/400 sec. shutter speed at f/8 lens aperture. The faster shutter speed will then expose the sensor to less light.
2. Then ISO's 2nd function kicks in. This function is strictly a post processing function. It is applied via the camera's electronics and software after the photo has been taken. There are different ways that different cameras handle this so I can't specifically describe one way fits all but basically the camera electronics and software brighten up the underexposed image that the sensor recorded.

Your YouTube guy was saying ISO lets you change sensitivity. It does no such thing.

Joe


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## Nugget00 (May 26, 2016)

Thank's man you helped alot  
I'll just stick with what I know, I don't want to complicate my life if I just started with photography


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## PatrickSoares (May 30, 2016)

Well, you would be surprised with how much you can learn with wrong information. Just try to watch alot of videos and your mind will start putting things in place and everything will make sense if you are patient enough  I've done it myself and I'm far from turning pro.

That's the beautiful thing about photography, it takes time to become good.


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## PaulWog (Jun 14, 2016)

I take issue with this statement: "Here's a hint about ISO in a digital camera: Changing it doesn't alter the sensitivity of anything."

ISO doesn't affect the amount of light the sensor gathers. It, however, does affect the sensitivity of the camera to light, for all practical intents and purposes. If you skew the definition of "sensitivity" one way, then sure, we could get into a forum fight about how I am wrong. There is a certain amount of light which reaches the sensor, and the sensor gathers that light for a certain amount of time. The ISO setting in the camera determines how sensitive the camera will be in processing the light that is gathered.

"In Digital Photography ISO measures the sensitivity of the image sensor. The same principles apply as in film photography – the lower the number the less sensitive your camera is to light and the finer the grain. Higher*ISO settings* are generally used in darker situations to get faster *shutter* speeds."

Here's a good read for a beginner: Understanding ISO - A Beginner's Guide

Here's the author's 2-year follow-up reply:
"Bob, thank you for your feedback! When I wrote the above article, I knew one day someone knowledgeable would point out the mistake of how I defined ISO. I just did not think it would take almost two years 

The above is an over-simplified explanation of ISO, to make it easy for beginners to understand the exposure triangle. Please note that the above article is tagged for “beginners” and I make note of simplifying ISO several times. It is easier to explain ISO in “sensitivity” terms, because many photographers worked with film before and they get it right away. I don’t think REI, SOS and ISO standards would really stick with those who just picked up a digital camera…"

We can go to Nikon's site as well (again, simplified, but useful):
"In the case of digital cameras, ISO sensitivity is a measure of the camera's ability to capture light. Digital cameras convert the light that falls on the image sensor into electrical signals for processing. ISO sensitivity is raised by amplifying the signal." To read more: Nikon | Imaging Products | DSLR Camera Basics | ISO Sensitivity


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## Ysarex (Jun 14, 2016)

PaulWog said:


> I take issue with this statement: "Here's a hint about ISO in a digital camera: Changing it doesn't alter the sensitivity of anything."
> 
> ISO doesn't affect the amount of light the sensor gathers.



That is correct. The amount of light the sensor gathers is a direct function of exposure and how light sensitive the sensor is and as you say ISO doesn't affect that.



PaulWog said:


> It, however, does affect the sensitivity of the camera to light, for all practical intents and purposes.



Camera's are not light sensitive. Film is light sensitive and sensors are light sensitive.



PaulWog said:


> If you skew the definition of "sensitivity" one way, then sure, we could get into a forum fight about how I am wrong. There is a certain amount of light which reaches the sensor, and the sensor gathers that light for a certain amount of time. The ISO setting in the camera determines how sensitive the camera will be in processing the light that is gathered.



That's just fantasy. ISO in digital cameras biases the meter and otherwise is a post processing procedure that simply determines a normalizing brightness level for the data the sensor records. Nothing is getting more or less sensitive.



PaulWog said:


> "In Digital Photography ISO measures the sensitivity of the image sensor. The same principles apply as in film photography – the lower the number the less sensitive your camera is to light and the finer the grain. Higher*ISO settings* are generally used in darker situations to get faster *shutter* speeds."
> 
> Here's a good read for a beginner: Understanding ISO - A Beginner's Guide
> 
> ...



Yep, that guy Bob (comment) got it right and the article author was wrong. He knew he was wrong and then made the lame excuse that the over-simplification was to help beginners more easily understand the exposure triangle which is a faulty model that further confuses beginners.

*Why do people find it necessary to patronize beginners?* Why hand them false analogies and fantasy models that will keep them in a state of misunderstanding? What the bleep is wrong with explaining how things work?

Joe


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## PaulWog (Jun 14, 2016)

"Cameras are not light sensitive... sensors are light sensitive." 

I think you're getting a little too technical. A sensor is a part of a camera. Hence, a camera is light sensitive. 

I also think you're getting a little too technical on how the word "sensitive" applies. It certainly does. The camera becomes more sensitive to light (the tool as a whole, not the sensor). I think you're just being ultra technical about how you are applying the word "sensitive".

And to answer the question about "patronizing beginners", I would say this: Giving ultra-technical advice to beginners is fine, but I wouldn't just dismiss the information in such a confusing fashion. I see this sort of stuff happen a lot on forums and elsewhere. An example of something frustrating is when someone says "A crop sensor doesn't get any more reach. It just has more pixels in a smaller area." And yet, the end result is more detail in the cropped area, hence more reach. I forget the other arguments that bug me, but the problem is that not enough is being stipulated. The word "sensitive" is too short, and means too many things, and requires a phrase in its place.


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## Ysarex (Jun 14, 2016)

PaulWog said:


> "Cameras are not light sensitive... sensors are light sensitive."
> 
> I think you're getting a little too technical.



And I think you're making way too much stuff up. You're also disagreeing with yourself which is kind of odd. You did say, "ISO doesn't affect the amount of light the sensor gathers." Well a sensor is part of a camera. Hence a camera behaves like a sensor and as you correctly noted, "ISO doesn't affect the amount of light the sensor gathers." Must apply to the camera too.



PaulWog said:


> A sensor is a part of a camera. Hence, a camera is light sensitive.



So even if I were to acknowledge such nonsense and grant you that a camera is light sensitive, ISO still has no effect on the camera's light sensitivity. The light sensitivity of a digital sensor (therefore digital camera) is fixed in manufacture and can not be changed. Here's a reference for that if you need one: www.Clarkvision.com: ISO and Digital Cameras, ISO Myths And of course we can continue to use you as a reference: "ISO doesn't affect the amount of light the sensor gathers."



PaulWog said:


> I also think you're getting a little too technical on how the word "sensitive" applies. It certainly does. The camera becomes more sensitive to light (the tool as a whole, not the sensor). I think you're just being ultra technical about how you are applying the word "sensitive".



Ultra technical?!! This is not, as they say, rocket science. Explain to me how a digital camera becomes more sensitive to light. When you raise the ISO on a digital camera does the camera become more capable of reaching into the shadows and recording darker information that it couldn't record at a lower ISO?



PaulWog said:


> And to answer the question about "patronizing beginners", I would say this: Giving ultra-technical advice to beginners is fine, but I wouldn't just dismiss the information in such a confusing fashion.



Who's dismissing what in a confusing fashion? I though I did a reasonable job earlier in the thread with this explanation:

_If I raise the ISO value on my camera it has no effect on the sensor and does not in any way change the light sensitivity of the sensor. Changing the ISO does two things: 1. It puts a spin on the light meter and causes the meter to calculate different exposure parameters. So if for example my meter had calculated 1/100 sec. shutter speed at f/8 lens aperture with the ISO at 200 then with the ISO at 800 it might recalculate those parameters as 1/400 sec. shutter speed at f/8 lens aperture. The faster shutter speed will then expose the sensor to less light.
2. Then ISO's 2nd function kicks in. This function is strictly a post processing function. It is applied via the camera's electronics and software after the photo has been taken. There are different ways that different cameras handle this so I can't specifically describe one way fits all but basically the camera electronics and software brighten up the underexposed image that the sensor recorded._

Joe



PaulWog said:


> I see this sort of stuff happen a lot on forums and elsewhere. An example of something frustrating is when someone says "A crop sensor doesn't get any more reach. It just has more pixels in a smaller area." And yet, the end result is more detail in the cropped area, hence more reach. I forget the other arguments that bug me, but the problem is that not enough is being stipulated. The word "sensitive" is too short, and means too many things, and requires a phrase in its place.


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## PaulWog (Jun 14, 2016)

There's no point in arguing with someone like you.


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## Ysarex (Jun 14, 2016)

PaulWog said:


> There's no point in arguing with someone like you.



Someone like me! 

Well then how about hard proof:
DSCF5641.RAF
DSCF5642.RAF
There's two raw files that prove I'm correct. If you need help interpreting them just ask.

There you go. With hard facts providing proof you don't have to worry about arguing with someone like me.

Joe


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## TheLibrarian (Jun 25, 2016)

Dont confuse the poor kid/ person. Theres plenty of bad info and some people dwell on it or never learn better themselves. I'm out here talking about stuff idk 100% trying to learn. I think whats suggested in the video might not be the inner science of the camera but is practical application. Fiddling with the ISO will allow you to increase your shutter speed when you must or make things brighter by another means than shutter speed and aperture. How it does that we can just assume is magic unless we find a calm collected nice person who will explain it to us. 

For me I might use it (increase it) with sports where I want fast shutter speed but have light issues. I think was the point of the youtube video. I also tried using it to take pictures of stars or at night. Made a pitch black night look like daytime though more than a bit grainy and i used too much. Simple explanation is it makes things brighter at the cost of clarity or resolution. Some say they get crisp images at higher ISO. 

All this about ISO you wanted a bag of tricks, we can't get this right. Generally keep it as low as it will go now unless thats the only way to adjust the shutter speed on whatever youre using and you have some desire to adjust your shutter speed or if you really want to adjust your ISO. Now you have to just to see what it does. 

I'm trying to use my mobile more and i just got my first dslr. Its not the camera its the samurai, Ive seen a few regular people take nicer stuff with their phones than I do so i'm determined. Think they may have the 6s though if that makes a difference.


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## bribrius (Jun 25, 2016)

seen some really nice and interesting phone pics often better than people are taking with dslrs


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## abhiwar (Oct 20, 2016)

Ysarex said:


> Nugget00 said:
> 
> 
> > So it looks like youtube is not a good place for learning this type of thing. Thank you for answers
> ...



Wonderful, thanks for explaining ISO for people like me who was misinformed . So this is the reason why with all cameras with same APS-C size  censors have different level of low light performance.


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## table1349 (Oct 23, 2016)

www.Clarkvision.com: ISO and Digital Cameras, ISO Myths


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