# Resources for Alternative Processes



## terri

The following is a list of resources for finding supplies to various alternative photographic processes.    They are all located in North America.

Bostick & Sullivan. www.bostick-sullivan.com 505-474-0890
This is a family operated business located in Santa Fe, NM. Along with promoting alternative artists and hosting events, like the Alternative Photography International Symposium, they have a great variety of darkroom chemicals, mostly featuring those highly specialized for alternative processes.

Graphic Chemical & Ink Co. www.graphicchemical.com 800-465-7382
Located in Villa Park, IL.  This is an excellent source of lithographic and graphic inks &#8211; all colors in a variety of sizes. Their products generally seem reasonably priced.   They are extremely helpful, though this is a site more geared towards lithographic printmaking than photographic processes.

Photographer's Formulary, Inc. www.photoformulary.com 800-922-5255
This is "the" place for all alt-processes geeks who might just be in the market for liquid gum arabic or amidol. They sponsor heavy-hitters in the darkroom and alternative processes arena, such as Tim Rudman, Dan Burkholder and Theresa Airey, offering workshops in various places around the U.S. as well as on location in Montana. This is a fun and informative website to peruse, being also a great resource for more basic darkroom supplies and chemicals.

Indigo Instruments. www.indigoinstruments.com 519-746-4761
Located in Ontario, they ship from a New York distribution center. They are suppliers of all types and sizes of measuring units and tools, including graduated cylinders, beakers and flasks. These items are of great use when mixing and measuring your own chemicals in the darkroom.  There is no printed catalog, but the site is nimble and user-friendly.


Feel free to add any companies you know of.


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## ferny

I'm not in the US but I just want to thank you for going to the effort, terri. That's very good of you. :thumbup:


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## Chase

Great info! Now if I just knew how to use it all...


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## terri

Chase said:
			
		

> Great info! Now if I just knew how to use it all...


Well, it _does_ help to have a process in mind already.   There is that to consider.


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## hobbes28

I may be a simpleton but I really like the stuff on the polaroid website.  They have an alternative techniques section on there.  US English Deutsche


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## terri

This link is provided courtesy of ksmattfish.

http://www.rockaloid.com/

I've not personally used this company, but it's a very informative site.   Information on liquid emulsions, cyanotypes, and tin type kits can be found here, plus a lot more.   

Just a matter of time for me.    :goodvibe:


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## terri

Okay, not exactly an alternative process, but I did have such a great experience with a photo lab that developed some color IR film (Kodak EIR) I just have to let you guys know about them.  

Long story short, I sent them a couple of rolls to process of Kodak EIR, that was given to me as a gift to try. I was going on vacation and worried about taking it through the airport more than once, so after shooting it in Utah, while still there I called this lab and was told to just send it on - no credit card# obtained (though I offered), just my name and billing address.

Imagine my surprise when, 2 days after I returned home, the perfectly processed film appeared in my mailbox! Not even an invoice included. 

I called this lab today and expressed my appreciation for the professional way I'd been treated. The co-owner, Kevin Johnson, could not have been nicer. I still don't know what I owe the guy, he said he'd "figure something up", but in the meantime he liked the negatives so well he asked me to send him a couple of prints to have on hand for customers to see how this film works! Compliments as well as great service - I'm not used to that.  

Here is the info:

Aerial Photo Lab, Inc.
200 Fentress Blvd., Ste. D
Daytona Beach, FL 32114
(386) 253-5041
www.aerialphotolab.com

Mr. Johnson strongly advises processing this film in a modified C41 process. Based on the clarity and cleanliness of my negatives, I would agree this is a great method. 

I'd like to thank our member, Jeff Canes, for not only the film (you're the best!) but recommending this lab. :thumbup: A great experience all the way around.


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## mysteryscribe

A few years ago at freestyle I bought some 8x10 sheet positive film.  Not sure what they called it, but you hit it with your negative in the enlarger to get a black and white 8x10 positive slide.  It was for pictures in light boxes or something like it.  I printed a sheet of it then framed it with a piece of roof flahing as a back.  In the right lighting it was gorgeous but i'm sure that's not what you mean here.  

This tread just reminded me that there are a lot of things out there.  If we can open our minds and see how things can be used differently than what was intended..


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## terri

mysteryscribe said:
			
		

> This tread just reminded me that there are a lot of things out there. If we can open our minds and see how things can be used differently than what was intended..


Thanks, you just made my day.  That's how I feel about it, too, along with several of our other alt-freak TPF members. 

And Freestyle rocks! :thumbup:


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## mysteryscribe

terri said:
			
		

> Thanks, you just made my day.  That's how I feel about it, too, along with several of our other alt-freak TPF members.
> 
> And Freestyle rocks! :thumbup:



I'm glad I made someone's day.  As for freestyle, I found them before there was an internet.  In the back of rangefinder magazine i believe in the seventies.  I bought film from them for years.  Real photo information was so hard to find I loved their catelogue.  I would spend whatever money I had left over that month on somethng outlandish, then try to find a way to use it.  

I think one time I bought 25 of their 6 dollar strobe lights and learned to gang them into a very high powered studio light.  Fired it backwards against a piece of white silk glued onto a piece of foam core in the spot where the ceiling and wall join... It made a forty five degree angle right down the subjects nose.  That and a back light (also one of their 6 buck strobes) and I was good to go for years.  It was actually the simplest lighting technique I ever owned.  But alas I ramble.  sorry but it is the perogarive of an old man.


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## mysteryscribe

Seriously ligitimate question have you ever tried shooting paper negatives in the camera...  Very retro looking


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## terri

mysteryscribe said:
			
		

> Seriously ligitimate question have you ever tried shooting paper negatives in the camera... Very retro looking


Nope...I love the look, though.

So, you've now found the alternative processes forum...  This is the place I'd love to see you start posting some of your "retro" images, especially like the process you described for that poster. :thumbup: Feel free to start some threads in here, anytime!


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## mysteryscribe

I did start one in that forem of special interest but I would love to do retro in this forem.  If you dont mind if i do 'kinda' fine art stuff.


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## gubak

Thank you terri it's nice of you!


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## Steph

Here is an interesting link to a website describing various alternative processes with step by step instructions:

http://www.alternativephotography.com


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## Bill LaMorris

I am not sure if it helps but Freestyle has Ortho Lith film in 4x5,8x10,xand 11x14 sheets. It is inexpensive and is marketed under the Arista label. I have also tried their Arista A-B Lith developer in the dry form for 10.00 bucks and I had very good results with it. I would try 30 to 1. Bill


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## christopher walrath

Another source for Alt Proc info if the Creative Image Maker magazine.  As a matter of fact we have a new issue coming out for December 2008.  And we are always looking for Articles on alternative processing so please feel free to join us and contribute your expertise.  Thank you.  (link to the mag is in the sig)


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## Robert_Maxey

What about the hard techniques? If there is any interest, I can help you all with (Warning, takes real work):

1- Dye transfer: you will need to make your own matrix film, dyes, etc. I know one chap that does just that and he freely makes his methods and formulas available.

2- Vectographs: a printed polarized stereoscopic printing process. with matrix film and the newly available Vectograph Film, it is once again possible. Or print then with your inkjet 
printer to (possibly) eliminate the need for matrices

3- The Autochrome process. Interesting sources for help in recreating an early color process.


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## unpopular

^^ do you have any sources on autochrome? a LONG time ago I worked with some guy on photo.net on how to revive the process. We had some ideas, but never went into prototype.

Has anyone succeeded?


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## Robert_Maxey

unpopular said:


> ^^ do you have any sources on autochrome? a LONG time ago I worked with some guy on photo.net on how to revive the process. We had some ideas, but never went into prototype.
> 
> Has anyone succeeded?



I am moving my library and files to my new digs. I'll dig up some basic info and post it.

The big issue with autochrome is dying the starch grains and separating the smallest grains. It is a cool process, and I've seen a few good ones.


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## Robert_Maxey

unpopular said:


> ^^ do you have any sources on autochrome? a LONG time ago I worked with some guy on photo.net on how to revive the process. We had some ideas, but never went into prototype.
> 
> Has anyone succeeded?



Forgot about this site:

Les autochromes  -


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## c.cloudwalker

I remember seeing a show of nothing but autochromes (late seventies in DC, I think) and, man, those things were just gorgeous.


This is a great thread. Glad someone revived it.


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## terri

c.cloudwalker said:


> I remember seeing a show of nothing but autochromes (late seventies in DC, I think) and, man, those things were just gorgeous.
> 
> 
> This is a great thread. Glad someone revived it.


Same here!     

Any and all info on alternative processes is welcomed.


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## c.cloudwalker

terri said:


> Any and all info on alternative processes is welcomed.



Nothing to contribute for the time being but I hope to some time next year when I start doing darkroom work again.

One thing I've thought about doing for the longest time is to make my own paper


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## unpopular

Autochromes were produced by adding a single layer of dyed, finely sieved potato starch to a glass plate. These particles were applied in a single layer to a glass plate lightly covered in pitch (tree sap). In the spaces between the particles, lamp black was applies. The plate would then be pressed, flattening the particles in order to maximize translucency and minimize space between the particles. The plate would then be baked in order to fix the particles to the plate. The plate would then be covered in panchromatic emulsion.

Because the original autochrome patent covers any color photographic process which similarly uses a stochastic screen of such microfilters, we figured we could use colored gelatin in place of starch, the gelatin could be swollen such that it bumps up against neighboring particles, avoiding the need of the lampblack and requiring less pressure. The only issue we could not resolve was getting the filters to be applied to the plate in a single layer. If this could be resolved, it may be possible to sensitize the colored filters themselves, avoiding the shooting "through the glass" drawback of traditional autochromes.

One person suggested we could use inkjet printers, and instead of using a glass plate we could use transparency films. One problem exists in that inkjets inks not wholly waterproof, however this could be solved by using fixative. The printed inkjet screen would then be coated in a panchromatic emulsion.

At the time, panchromatic dyes were not well understood to the laymen. However today resources from the holography community are available which describe how to dye silver-based emulsions to provide greater red and green sensitivity, this should not be as much an issue


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## Robert_Maxey

unpopular said:


> Autochromes were produced by adding a single layer of dyed, finely sieved potato starch to a glass plate. These particles were applied in a single layer to a glass plate lightly covered in pitch (tree sap). In the spaces between the particles, lamp black was applies. The plate would then be pressed, flattening the particles in order to maximize translucency and minimize space between the particles. The plate would then be baked in order to fix the particles to the plate. The plate would then be covered in panchromatic emulsion.
> 
> Because the original autochrome patent covers any color photographic process which similarly uses a stochastic screen of such microfilters, we figured we could use colored gelatin in place of starch, the gelatin could be swollen such that it bumps up against neighboring particles, avoiding the need of the lampblack and requiring less pressure. The only issue we could not resolve was getting the filters to be applied to the plate in a single layer. If this could be resolved, it may be possible to sensitize the colored filters themselves, avoiding the shooting "through the glass" drawback of traditional autochromes.
> 
> One person suggested we could use inkjet printers, and instead of using a glass plate we could use transparency films. One problem exists in that inkjets inks not wholly waterproof, however this could be solved by using fixative. The printed inkjet screen would then be coated in a panchromatic emulsion.
> 
> At the time, panchromatic dyes were not well understood to the laymen. However today resources from the holography community are available which describe how to dye silver-based emulsions to provide greater red and green sensitivity, this should not be as much an issue



I understand the process. My only objection to the use of printers and film is it modifies the process in such a way that it is unappealing to me. Not really the original Autochrome process. to be fair, apparently, flexible substraits were tried a number of years later. The only technical issue I have found is the starch grains. Easier said than produced. I suppose a few samples could be made and then the particles sifted with a lab mesh screen to separate the grains by size. Or perhaps another material could be used if you want to experiment. 

Interestingly, there are hundreds of fascinating color techniques covered in the patent literature. I began a search when EK stopped manufacturing matrix film,

In my opinion, if you want to use the original process, do not modify it so it no longer is the Autochrome Process. Just my humble opinion.

I found this site: Institut Lumiere - Musee - Autochromes
Do you suppose the colors were adjusted by the web designer? The first few images seem rather un-autochromey to me.

"Soon the whole world will run wild with color, and the Lumière brothers will be responsible.&#8221; - One of the Lumiere Brothers. ​


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## unpopular

Yes. I was very adamantly opposed to this person's idea to use inkjet printers as well for the historic reasons. I don't mind modifications that might not be "historic" but in the _very_ least use technologies available to them. Granted, my gelatin suggestion would not have been a genuine Lumiere Autochrome, but would still be an autochrome as defined by the patent (unless the filters themselves were sensitized).

I have never seen an autochrome in person, so I don't know if these had been modified.


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## terri

c.cloudwalker said:


> terri said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any and all info on alternative processes is welcomed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing to contribute for the time being but I hope to some time next year when I start doing darkroom work again.
> 
> One thing I've thought about doing for the longest time is to make my own paper
Click to expand...

Papermaking processes are fascinating to me!    Don't know why, other than the seemingly limitless ways there are to go about it.


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## Robert_Maxey

terri said:


> c.cloudwalker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> terri said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any and all info on alternative processes is welcomed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing to contribute for the time being but I hope to some time next year when I start doing darkroom work again.
> 
> One thing I've thought about doing for the longest time is to make my own paper
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Papermaking processes are fascinating to me!    Don't know why, other than the seemingly limitless ways there are to go about it.
Click to expand...


I know of one man that makes film that is as good or better than the same specific material once manufactured by Eastman Kodak. He does it because EK discontinued the material. I have never made paper, but in the case of film, high quality materials require a far more exacting process than many dabblers use. It requires quite a bit of effort. It can be fascinating to fool with, though. 

If there is interest, I could briefly outline his process. Or post a link might be better.


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## terri

Robert_Maxey said:


> terri said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> c.cloudwalker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing to contribute for the time being but I hope to some time next year when I start doing darkroom work again.
> 
> One thing I've thought about doing for the longest time is to make my own paper
> 
> 
> 
> Papermaking processes are fascinating to me!    Don't know why, other than the seemingly limitless ways there are to go about it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know of one man that makes film that is as good or better than the same specific material once manufactured by Eastman Kodak. He does it because EK discontinued the material. I have never made paper, but in the case of film, high quality materials require a far more exacting process than many dabblers use. It requires quite a bit of effort. It can be fascinating to fool with, though.
> 
> If there is interest, I could briefly outline his process. Or post a link might be better.
Click to expand...

Sure, why not?        Either open a new thread here in the Alt forum, or over in the general Articles forum.     Sounds great - thanks!


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## dxqcanada

Photography Workshops at the George Eastman House 
Photography Workshops · George Eastman House


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## star camera company

I am building wet plate gear again.  Www.starcameracompany.com (contact email starcameracompany(et)yahoo(dat)com


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