# Amateur photographer seeks advice on how much to charge for photo session and prints:



## almendj

Hi there! I'm sure this question has been asked millions of times on this forum, but this is my first posting, and I'm trying to get as much advice on this as I can so I can make a good judgment call.  I've been shooting as a passionate amateur for a little over a year now. I've had several people ask me how much I charge for portraits, and since I've been trying to drum up clientele and expand my portfolio, I either don't charge or I charge an extremely low session fee and give them all pictures on a CD.  However, I know that I cannot continue on like this forever.  By this point, I think I have enough in my portfolio to really consider starting an official business.  The aspect I'm struggling with the most however, is figuring out what to charge my clients.  I do NOT use photoshop, so I know there are many editing features that I cannot produce like some photographers(I don't have the "layering" option, so I can't produce certain effects/filters).  I do however, use Aperture 3, which works fantastically for the type of editing I do.  I also don't work out of a studio as I don't have proper lighting equipment.  I shoot strictly using natural light.  Considering all this...I'm not sure I feel comfortable charging the "hundreds of dollars per session" that many photographers do, but this could also be part of my lack of confidence. 

So...I would love some honest feedback on my work.  Do I have enough skill to even charge people?  What's the minimum pricing I should start out with?  I'm sure I will get a bazillion different answers, but I'm willing to get as much as advice as possible.  Here are some samples. Thanks for looking!


----------



## Bitter Jeweler

Have you made a business plan? Items (such as insurance) entered into a business plan, figure into your pricing.


----------



## almendj

Haven't really done a business plan yet.  I know I need to do that and set up an officially website(not just a blog), and all that, but first I mainly wanted to get feedback from people to see if I even have the skill to charge for my work


----------



## amolitor

If they're willing to pay you, you're good enough to get paid.  Your work looks fine. Lots and lots of money has been paid for worse work than yours. Lots and lots of money has been paid for better work, too.

Get cracking on the business-y stuff, that's what will make the business or not.


----------



## tirediron

No one can tell you what to charge.  Rates depend on your cost of doing business (CODB) and how your business plan is laid out.  Until you know exactly what every aspect of your business costs, and how much money you need, you can't determine your rates.

If you're going to do professional work (If you charge, you're a professional, full stop!) then you have to be able to professional-level work.  This means that you need to use either Photo-shop or an equivalent application to post-process your work.  "Natural light" is almost always a cop-out for "I dont know how to use flash and don't want to learn".  You NEED to learn how to use supplemental light to deliver a quality product.

Looking at your work, it's not bad;  you've clearly got a good grasp of basic (ambient light) exposure, and your focus seems to be good, BUT i see lots of minor exposure issues that could be improved with the use of strobes, reflectors, etc, and your composition needs work; lots of cropped "bits" and centred subjects.

Should you start charging?  Well, only you can truly make that decision, but if I were you, I wouldn't hang out my shingle just yet.  The #1 reason that businesses fail (all businesses) is because the owner lacks business knowledge.  Draft up a GOOD resume and portfolio and haul your butt around to every photographer with an hour's drive and ask for an internship.  You might or might not get paid, you probably won't take a picture for a year, you will get a lot of coffee and doughnuts, and you will haul many tons of gear, BUT if you work hard and pay attention, you will learn a LOT!

Good luck!


----------



## cgipson1

Only you can determine if you skill level is sufficient in your own eyes to justify charging others. These are better than MANY of the so-called Pros on Facebook, and that I see locally. But.. with only a year of experience, you will run into may situations where you might not even have a clue what to do, so what will you do?

Can you use flash? For fill? Backlit Fill? Total darkness and still keep the background exposed properly? Do you know how to use light modifiers, and when to use what modifier? Can you stop action? Do you know how to handle different DOF's and how to obtain good bokeh, while keeping the subject sharp? how good are you at PP? If you blow a shoot, can you recover it in post? You do shoot RAW, right?

just some things to think about...

Not to mention insurance in case you get sued, or hurt.. or a client gets hurt. Taxes are always fun... and business licenses, etc....

Do you know your CODB? That should determine what you charge.. nothing else.


----------



## almendj

Thanks so much for your honest feedback!  My next investment is to get an SB 600 flash for my Nikon D3000, but since I'm unemployed I have to wait a bit:/  All of my photography is self-taught.  I've never had formal training or even job shadowed anyone.  Are professional photographers usually open to that kind of thing? Thanks for your advice! I take it to heart!


----------



## almendj

Thanks for your prompt response and for complimenting my work! I appreciate the feedback Definitely looking into the business portion ASAP.


----------



## Tamgerine

Regardless of your skill, you have a long way to go. Going into business is easy, maintaining a business that shows steady growth over time and becomes successful and provides you a living is not. Thousands of small businesses fail every year. 

It really depends on how serious you are. I don't know your situation, but I assume you have SOME source of income now that you're unemployed, such as living off of a spouses income or out of your savings? Could you continue your lifestyle and make a little bit of money on the side? Sure. That's easy when everything is already paid for by an alternate source of income. 
That's why so many photographers can afford to charge 50 dollars a session - because all of their costs are covered by an alternate source of income. It doesn't mean you're a profitable business. 

The question is, when you establish this business, can your pricing structure and profit margin make the transfer to where it CAN support you full time? Set up your business to be profitable in the very beginning because when it comes time to rely on that business for income support you'll suddenly say, "Oh crap, what I've been charging is no where NEAR close to covering my overhead." Then all of a sudden you're charging 500 dollars for the same product you were selling for 50 and customers are like, "WTF?" Because there is no added value to account for the major jump in price.

Do you know how to register yourself as a legal business in your state and pay your taxes? Do you know how to do all your accounting and bookkeeping so if the IRS audits you you don't look like a fool and incur penalties? Do you have legal representation in case you get sued? How are you going to finance any additional equipment you need? How are you going to pay for the insurance you need in case you damage property while on the job? How are you going to pay for the insurance on your equipment in case it gets damaged or stolen?

Plenty of people are good photographers, not necessarily good businessmen. It really depends on where you want YOUR future to lie. If you want to live off your spouse, charge almost nothing for a session, and just keep doing that forever then fine. That's not a successful business. That's a hobby where part of your costs are covered by other people.


----------



## MLeeK

This is such a complicated thing that we really are useless to you. It ties in everything everyone has mentioned here from your business plan to Christmas and back. 
The Easy As Pie pricing is supposed to be great. I don't know first hand, but I have heard it is great. It's also $349 which IMO is out of this world. However... she has a great business plan and pricing strategy and is probably doing better at this than I am! 
Easy as Pie &#8211; Served Up Fresh

You need to first know your Cost Of Doing Business, then your Cost Of Goods. Then you have to decide what you put into each session for time from start (email/phone call) to finish (delivery.) THEN you have to decide what your time is worth per hour including paying your income taxes out of it and multiply times the hours you will invest. 
Average the COG and CODB out per how many sessions you will shoot in a day/week/month/year and that will give you your base number. Add your personal compensation in there and that's the amount you have to make out of each session. You can then decide how you want to price the session and products to guarantee you make that amount for each session.


----------



## Tamgerine

ANYWAYS!

Cost of Doing Business + Your Salary = Your pricing structure.

Random numbers. Let's say your CODB is 40,000 a year. If you make a profit of 40,000 you break even. You want to pay YOURSELF 100,000 a year. 140,000 is your starting number.

How much do you want to shoot? If you only want to shoot ONE client a year, you need to charge them 140,000. If you want to shoot 100 clients a year, you need to charge them 1,400 dollars. If you want to shoot 7,000 clients a year, hey you only have to charge them 20 bucks! Can you GET 7,000 clients a year? Can you get 100? Can you get 20? 

You have fixed costs and variable costs. Your fixed costs don't change regardless of how much business you get. If you make NO MONEY, your fixed costs are the same. 

Your variable costs fluctuate with the amount of business. If you pay a percentage of money to order prints for clients, there's no costs if you have no clients to order prints for.

My advice: get an accountant.


----------



## gsgary

If you have to ask your not ready


----------



## jowensphoto

You're work, especially considering the short time you've been shooting, is quite lovely.

There is much much more to any business than just prices and websites. I suggest reaching out to your local (county or state) small business administration to find out all the legal red tape.

Taking a business course or two at a community/junior college wouldn't hurt either!


----------



## imagemaker46

While some of the images are ok, and I'm sure that you will be able to find people that will pay you for this work.  Personally I don't see that you are really at the skill point of photography where you could make a successful go of it.  Having said that, give it a shot see where it takes you, even if you don't make it, you won't have a regret down the road saying that you didn't at least try.


----------



## jowensphoto

^ I understand what you're saying, but I think OP has the creative aspect under control. Technique can be learned.

That being said, talk to local established portrait photographers about an internship or assistant job.


----------



## imagemaker46

Yes technique can be learned but he is talking about selling his services right now, and I'm not sure he is ready.  It's like anything, if you jump too soon, you set yourself up for failure, and most people don't recover from a first big failure in business.  It just seems to me that so many pepole after putting in a short period of time with a camera figure they are ready.


----------



## jowensphoto

True true. 

The thing about technique is a lot of clients wouldn't know it of it bit them on the ass. It's only about what they'll buy.

I agree that lack of business knowledge will result in failure.


----------



## eilla05

As was said before ( and trust me I still dont' have this right!!) you have to figure out you cost of doing business plus what you hope to make etc and that will give you your starting point. For example I am aiming for doing 12 sessions per month in order to make what I need to make to support myself and to be able to purchase new equipment, taxes etc etc. I think your photos are great and I really loved the first 2 and I think you would do great if you just learn about the business portion of it. You will continue to get better as a photographer the more you work. There are plenty of people who would pay for your work  Good luck to you!


----------

