# Cemetery ... Hawk ... needing more ID assistance.



## dxqcanada (Jul 17, 2016)

So, the wife (Blacksheep) and I went to Mount Pleasant Cemetery in Toronto to do some shooting, and also checking out a historical site ... little did we know that our Tele lenses would have been required.

While wandering around I noticed a grave stone that had a really lifelike rendition of a hawk ... hmm, then it moved ... Ok, it was so lifelike it was alive. Interesting bird, as it was very familiar with hunting in the cemetery ... it even RAN after a squirrel into the bushes ... though the squirrels do not appear to be smart, as it ran into the bush right behind the hawk.

Now ... trying to figure out what type it is ... my wife thinks it is a Broad-Winged Hawk ... the white breast is throwing me off.


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## dxqcanada (Jul 17, 2016)

Cooper's ?


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## jcdeboever (Jul 17, 2016)

Great shot


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## ZombiesniperJr (Jul 18, 2016)

Nice shot looks like a juvenile red tailed hawk to me as it has some red on the edge of were the brown and white meet on the tail


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## WesternGuy (Jul 18, 2016)

I would tend to agree with dxqcanada.  Probably a juvenile Cooper's - dark brown, mottled upper parts, light underparts with some brown streaks, yellow legs and toes and yellowish eyes.  The key to identifying raptors, at least for me, is to see their underside when they are in flight.  This almost always determines what it is, but it could be a juvenile of a number of others - red-tailed, sharp-shinned, etc.  If you have an in-flight image, that would definitely help.

WesternGuy


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## rodbender (Jul 18, 2016)

WesternGuy said:


> I would tend to agree with dxqcanada.  Probably a juvenile Cooper's - dark brown, mottled upper parts, light underparts with some brown streaks, yellow legs and toes and yellowish eyes.  The key to identifying raptors, at least for me, is to see their underside when they are in flight.  This almost always determines what it is, but it could be a juvenile of a number of others - red-tailed, sharp-shinned, etc.  If you have an in-flight image, that would definitely help.
> 
> WesternGuy


Way too heavy for a Cooper's or Sharp-Shinned it 100% a Juvi Red-tailed Hawk belly band gives it away


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## ZombiesniperJr (Jul 18, 2016)

WesternGuy said:


> I would tend to agree with dxqcanada.  Probably a juvenile Cooper's - dark brown, mottled upper parts, light underparts with some brown streaks, yellow legs and toes and yellowish eyes.  The key to identifying raptors, at least for me, is to see their underside when they are in flight.  This almost always determines what it is, but it could be a juvenile of a number of others - red-tailed, sharp-shinned, etc.  If you have an in-flight image, that would definitely help.
> 
> WesternGuy


 the tail bands on a juvenile coopers hawk are bigger and more spaced out then the one in the picture a juvenile red tailed hawk has smaller bands and are less spaced out and there are more bands on there tail sharp shinned hawks tails have the same or very similar to the coopers


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## WesternGuy (Jul 18, 2016)

The thing that is faking me out is the white band on the end of the tail.  I still want to see a view of its underside in flight as that is usually the clincher.  I will agree that it is definitely a juvi and as rodbender says probably too big for a Cooper's or a Sharp Shinned.

-30-

WesternGuy


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## dxqcanada (Jul 18, 2016)

Umm, we did not get a shot-from-under flight shot ... as this bird preferred to perch on the stones and jump down on top of the rodents ... and also it like to run like Gump.


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## dxqcanada (Jul 18, 2016)

... so, we all thinking juv Red Tailed Hawk ?


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## coastalconn (Jul 18, 2016)

dxqcanada said:


> ... so, we all thinking juv Red Tailed Hawk ?


100% Juvi Red Tail...  A Buteo for sure, tail is too short for an Accipiter, which rules out coopers and sharpie..


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## dxqcanada (Jul 18, 2016)

OK ... a jRTH.


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## BlackSheep (Jul 18, 2016)

Glad to read everyone's thoughts. I'm still kind of thinking it was a young coopers, for 2 reasons: first it's size- I was closer to it than Dennis was, and it was for sure smallish - at the absolute most 18 inches long from tail to head, which is smaller than any RTH that I can remember seeing. And the second reason is that the cemetery had a lot of old tree cover, and the only hawk that I've heard of that likes forest cover and will run on the ground (which was pretty funny!) to catch prey is a Cooper's hawk. But man identifying young hawks is super tough!


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## coastalconn (Jul 18, 2016)

BlackSheep said:


> Glad to read everyone's thoughts. I'm still kind of thinking it was a young coopers, for 2 reasons: first it's size- I was closer to it than Dennis was, and it was for sure smallish - at the absolute most 18 inches long from tail to head, which is smaller than any RTH that I can remember seeing. And the second reason is that the cemetery had a lot of old tree cover, and the only hawk that I've heard of that likes forest cover and will run on the ground (which was pretty funny!) to catch prey is a Cooper's hawk. But man identifying young hawks is super tough!


OK, here is a juvi hawk primer.  First accipiters.  Tail is long proportional to body also head shape is different than a buteo.  Accipiters are designed to rip through densely populated forests and grab birds..  Hard telling coops and sharpie's other than relative size.  In general, but not always, Sharpies are a little bigger than  a blue jay with a longer tail...
Juvi Sharpie (notice the length of the tail)



Sharpie in the rain 11_10 3 by Kristofer Rowe, on Flickr



Juvi Sharp Shinned Hawk 2_9 2 by Kristofer Rowe, on Flickr
Cooper's look similar but bigger, again note the tail length



Juvenile Cooper&#x27;s Hawk 2_9 1 by Kristofer Rowe, on Flickr



Juvenil Cooper&#x27;s Hawk 12_2 2 by Kristofer Rowe, on Flickr
Buteo's are stockier with shorter tails.
My George III is a juvenile Red Tail



George III 6_30 by Kristofer Rowe, on Flickr



George III 7_9 by Kristofer Rowe, on Flickr
To me Juvi Red Shoulder just look different, especially the beak



Juvenile Red Shouldered Hawk 2_10 7 by Kristofer Rowe, on Flickr



Juvenile Red Shouldered Hawk 1 1_11 by Kristofer Rowe, on Flickr
Unfortunately I only have one picture of a Rough Legged Hawk



Rough Legged Hawk 2_24 by Kristofer Rowe, on Flickr
The Broad Wings I have are captive and adults so they won't help. 

But yes Juvi Hawk ID is tough.  After awhile it gets easier and I have seen all species of hawks running around on the ground, Red shoulders actually eat worms like Robins do and I have seen Red Tails run after mice when they miss..


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## spiralout462 (Jul 18, 2016)

I love number 2, on the tombstone.  Thanks for the primer, Kris.


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## dxqcanada (Jul 19, 2016)

Chris, thanks for the j Hawk primer, great pictures (as expected) ... though I noticed you do not have an image of a Red Tailed ... hmm.


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## rodbender (Jul 19, 2016)

dxqcanada said:


> Chris, thanks for the j Hawk primer, great pictures (as expected) ... though I noticed you do not have an image of a Red Tailed ... hmm.


George is a Redtail


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## dxqcanada (Jul 19, 2016)

Opps, was just corrected on that.


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## FITBMX (Jul 19, 2016)

It is always great when you find the unexpected. 
I thought it was a Red Tail, they are the most common around here.


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## BlackSheep (Jul 19, 2016)

Kris - thank you for the primer, very appreciated!!


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## coastalconn (Jul 20, 2016)

BlackSheep said:


> Kris - thank you for the primer, very appreciated!!


Glad I could help out


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