# (uh oh its a wedding thread) PESSIMISTS: Do NOT enter! REALISTS: Please come in! OPTIMISTS: I <3 you



## JustJazzie (Mar 6, 2015)

I wasn't originally going to make a thread, because I know how split these things become, but here it goes!

A VERY GOOD friend of a VERY GOOD friend, is getting married in June. I am not exactly sure yet if photography just isn't a priority for them, or if they cant afford a professional. Whatever the reason, from what I understand, its down to me or their local craigslist.

Obviously, weather or not I accept I will need to call the bride and have a conversation with her. I plan to stress the value of hiring a professional and ensure she understands the many limitations that come with trusting me with their photos. However, I am trying to decide if, after this conversation she is still set on forgoing a professional- I should go forth. 

Our mutual friend has a crop sensor canon with 2 lens's that I am free to borrow and use as a second body for the day. I know I would really need to invest in some sort of TTL flash, since I am not sure I would be comfortable using my M flash in the fast moving situations of a wedding. I think I would try to talk them into doing bride/groom shots the evening before to ensure we had enough time to work. 
Are there other things I should consider when making such a big decision? 
Are there any questions I should make sure to ask her BEFORE I decide yes or not? Should I just run away now?


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## pixmedic (Mar 6, 2015)

anyone that looks at your Flickr page can see that you have good understanding of your camera, and a solid grasp on people photography.  I say go for it.  I am fairly confident you will be fine, and they will be happy with the results. 


I probably don't need to go through the _*whole*_ list of questions , but i will give you a few things _*we *_look at before deciding whether or not to do a wedding. 

#1, make sure you have a contract
budget
wedding/venue location. 
wedding/venue _*rules*_ and/or requirements. 
wedding party size. 
bride/groom expectations. IE: what do they want? do they even know what they want?
how long is wedding? reception?
are we covering pre-wedding/post wedding? (calculate total time you will be shooting)
will there be punch and pie (I heard there will be punch and pie)
how do they want the pictures? on disk? prints? albums? all of the above?
options for ordering prints, and method of delivery. 
go over time frame for them receiving the pictures and how they will be getting them. 
make sure you have a contract. 
go over contract with them and make sure everyone understands your/their rights to the pictures.


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## gsgary (Mar 6, 2015)

Go for it as long as you use your Sony and not that crappy new camera you bought


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## tirediron (Mar 6, 2015)

I'm not quite so optimistic as Jason, NOT because I have any doubt about your ability since you clearly know what your limitiatios are, and know what to do about them.  I see the actual work as a non-issue, but anytime I see "friend" and "wedding" in the same sentence it makes me nervous.  The one question I would ask both myself and maybe others than know the both of you, is:  "What will happen to the our friendship if she's totally disapointed in the pictures?"  Again, NOT saying your work isn't up to it, but even experienced professionals have clients who for whatever reason, just simply don't like the images they receive.  Remember, brides aren't rational people...  they say all kinds of things BEFORE the event, but three months later? 

On a more technical note, I've not done many weddings (they're just not really my thing), I've never considered doing formals ahead of time.  That seems like it would present a LOT of logistical challenges, even if it truly was just the bride & groom (which it almost never is) since the bride would have to dress (is there any of that traditional 'groom can't see the bride before the ceremony' stuff here?), and could all of the relatives be corralled?  I like to plan for 2-3 hours (never seem to get more than an hour at most) between ceremony and reception.  The bride's dress is still presentable, the wedding party hasn't yet become annoyed at their 'monkey suits' and it's a time when usually not too much is going on. 

Pay close attention to Jason's list and no matter HOW good a friend she is, if you do it, get it on paper!!!!!!


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## tirediron (Mar 6, 2015)

gsgary said:


> Go for it as long as you use your Sony and not thar crappy new camera you bought


 Why don't you e-mail her a couple of your Leicas Gary?  Then the pictures would be perfect!


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## gsgary (Mar 6, 2015)

tirediron said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> > Go for it as long as you use your Sony and not thar crappy new camera you bought
> ...


She wouldn't know what to do with them


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## runnah (Mar 6, 2015)

Can you second shoot with someone beforehand? Might help just to get a rough outline of how to do things.


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## tirediron (Mar 6, 2015)

gsgary said:


> tirediron said:
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> 
> > gsgary said:
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 I'm guessing lay them upside your melon!


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## JustJazzie (Mar 6, 2015)

pixmedic said:


> anyone that looks at your Flickr page can see that you have good understanding of your camera, and a solid grasp on people photography.  I say go for it.  I am fairly confident you will be fine, and they will be happy with the results.
> 
> 
> I probably don't need to go through the _*whole*_ list of questions , but i will give you a few things _*we *_look at before deciding whether or not to do a wedding.
> ...


 Thank you! Great questions. There WILL be punch, guaranteed to be spiked at this wedding. 



gsgary said:


> Go for it as long as you use your Sony and not that crappy new camera you bought


Glad to see your optimism shining through Gary!


tirediron said:


> I'm not quite so optimistic as Jason, NOT because I have any doubt about your ability since you clearly know what your limitiatios are, and know what to do about them.  I see the actual work as a non-issue, but anytime I see "friend" and "wedding" in the same sentence it makes me nervous.  The one question I would ask both myself and maybe others than know the both of you, is:  "What will happen to the our friendship if she's totally disapointed in the pictures?"  Again, NOT saying your work isn't up to it, but even experienced professionals have clients who for whatever reason, just simply don't like the images they receive.  Remember, brides aren't rational people...  they say all kinds of things BEFORE the event, but three months later?
> 
> On a more technical note, I've not done many weddings (they're just not really my thing), I've never considered doing formals ahead of time.  That seems like it would present a LOT of logistical challenges, even if it truly was just the bride & groom (which it almost never is) since the bride would have to dress (is there any of that traditional 'groom can't see the bride before the ceremony' stuff here?), and could all of the relatives be corralled?  I like to plan for 2-3 hours (never seem to get more than an hour at most) between ceremony and reception.  The bride's dress is still presentable, the wedding party hasn't yet become annoyed at their 'monkey suits' and it's a time when usually not too much is going on.
> 
> Pay close attention to Jason's list and no matter HOW good a friend she is, if you do it, get it on paper!!!!!!



Clarification: I have NEVER met the bride. She is a friend of a friend. Our mutual friend had her cousin shoot her wedding and has always regretted the decision, but it didn't strain their relationship. She has also made the bride very aware of her "mistake" so I am assuming the bride either doesn't care, or simply can not afford it.  So my relationship would be fine, but should I be concerned for my friends relationship for "referring" me? Perhaps I should discuss that with her first. 
As for the formals, I was ONLY referring to the bride and groom shots. Its something I have read on a few wedding blogs, so I thought it was at least worth a shot to ask, especially if the bride is wanting a huge portfolio, that I might not be able to pull off in an hour * shrug* Obviously she may say no way!


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## JustJazzie (Mar 6, 2015)

runnah said:


> Can you second shoot with someone beforehand? Might help just to get a rough outline of how to do things.


I have no idea! I might be able to call around and see. I asked to shadow a local photographer once and she said "the last person who she let shadow her, tried to steel her business" but I haven't tried asking a wedding photographer. 

PS Runnah- We haven't forgotten about the box! The dishwasher went out so DH had to fix that, and its his work week (14 hour days with commute) I have no idea how to wipe the hard drive myself, he promised to get to it this "weekend"


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## Designer (Mar 6, 2015)

JustJazzie said:


> As for the formals, I was ONLY referring to the bride and groom shots. Its something I have read on a few wedding blogs, so I thought it was at least worth a shot to ask, especially if the bride is wanting a huge portfolio, that I might not be able to pull off in an hour * shrug* Obviously she may say no way!


I would forget that idea.  I don't know who does this, but I would not even consider it to be somewhat reasonable.

BTW: IMO, you're going to need a helper.  Can your friend offer to be your helper?  I mean she's already equipped to be the second shooter, so tell her to bring her camera and an extra battery.  You need someone to;

Hold something.
Fetch something.
Corral the folks.
Watch your gear when you visit the RR.
Check on the progress of the ceremony.
Run interference for you when you are with the bride's entourage.


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## JustJazzie (Mar 6, 2015)

Designer said:


> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> > As for the formals, I was ONLY referring to the bride and groom shots. Its something I have read on a few wedding blogs, so I thought it was at least worth a shot to ask, especially if the bride is wanting a huge portfolio, that I might not be able to pull off in an hour * shrug* Obviously she may say no way!
> ...


She is in the wedding. But its a small town, everyone grew up together and they have lots of family. I am sure she knows SOMEONE who can be my helper. I did plan to ask if someone would be willing to assist!


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## pixmedic (Mar 6, 2015)

we typically do the formals after the ceremony, but before the reception.
Usually right where the wedding ceremony was done. we set up the camera on a tripod, some lights on stands, and shoot in groups. we decide ahead of time what groups we are going to do and in what order.
full wedding party is almost always first for us.
bride/groom
bride/groom with whoever officiated the ceremony
groom/groomsmen
bride/bridesmaids
bride/parents
bride/groom  with flower girl and/or Frodo (ring bearer!)

you get the idea.
depending on how large and diverse the wedding party is, the combinations are endless.


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## JustJazzie (Mar 6, 2015)

Okay, I will nix the pre wedding shoot idea. 

The last wedding I attended- the photographer ( who said he had done this for 30+ years) waited until the flowers were DEAD to do the ring shots in them. I was SMH when I saw him do it and thought "maybe he has a vision" Then I saw the album- nope, just rings in half dead flowers. I was so sad for the bride! Not to self- if the flowers are dead- use something else!


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## JustJazzie (Mar 6, 2015)

Do I need a contract if I am not charging?


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## pixmedic (Mar 6, 2015)

JustJazzie said:


> Do I need a contract if I am not charging?




yes. _*yes*_. YES!


























yes.


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## goooner (Mar 6, 2015)

JustJazzie said:


> Do I need a contract if I am not charging?


Tell them you need at least one TTL flash for the wedding, and that you would do it for the price of one with a set of triggers


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## tirediron (Mar 6, 2015)

JustJazzie said:


> Do I need a contract if I am not charging?


 Since there's no money changing hands it might or might not be a contract, but you do want an AGREEMENT which includes what the couple expects, when you're supposed to show up, what you're supposed to deliver, I try and include the formals shoot list too, that way if they start getting ridiculous (We want one of great Aunt Matilda with each of the grand-children and the bride's second cousins....) you can say, sorry, that was not discussed and we don't have time for it.  It depends in part on your personality, but I like to have well-established parameters to work within for a wedding and not have any doubt about "Was I supposed to shoot that?" or "Did they want that for wall art?"


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## JustJazzie (Mar 6, 2015)

goooner said:


> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> > Do I need a contract if I am not charging?
> ...


Once I charge, even if it was for a flash- wouldn't that make me a "professional" and then require that I carry insurance??.....


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## astroNikon (Mar 6, 2015)

JustJazzie said:


> Okay, I will nix the pre wedding shoot idea.
> 
> The last wedding I attended- the photographer ( who said he had done this for 30+ years) waited until the flowers were DEAD to do the ring shots in them. I was SMH when I saw him do it and thought "maybe he has a vision" Then I saw the album- nope, just rings in half dead flowers. I was so sad for the bride! Not to self- if the flowers are dead- use something else!


Yikes, or at least redo the shot afterwards with fresh flowers.


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## jaomul (Mar 6, 2015)

I'll say this, and this is not to piss off wedding phographers who actually have skill and care.

I think you would be fine because you are looking for advise and care about your end product. I'm not saying you'll be a threat to many pros but I'd imagine from seeing you here on forum you would get the job done.

I was recently at a wedding where the pro had 2 D3 cameras with a 14-24 and 24-70 lens. I guessed before I saw his photos that they would be craps and they were. He had 2 D3s but no idea. There is a difference between one who has lots of gear and does a wedding, and those who have an interest in photography and seek advice about doing a wedding.

Good luck


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## tirediron (Mar 6, 2015)

JustJazzie said:


> goooner said:
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> 
> > JustJazzie said:
> ...


 That would depend on local laws & regulations, but I doubt it.  Regardless, it's not "pay"; you simply let them know that while you're doing this gratis, you need a certain item of equipment that you can't currently afford, and if they could procure it for you...


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## TreeofLifeStairs (Mar 6, 2015)

JustJazzie said:


> goooner said:
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> > JustJazzie said:
> ...



I don't know about Colorado but in California there's no requirement for carrying insurance, it's just a good practice. The flip side is that even if you aren't a "professional" you're still liable if something goes wrong. So if your flash catches fire and burns the place down or even if your assistant isn't paying attention and knocks over the wedding cake, it still can come back around to you. 

That being said, I'd do it. Insurance really isn't that expensive.


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## dennybeall (Mar 6, 2015)

Write a contract with the bride and groom that covers exactly what you are going to do for them and make it for $1.00. Collect the dollar.
The contract will cover you.


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## JustJazzie (Mar 6, 2015)

astroNikon said:


> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> > Okay, I will nix the pre wedding shoot idea.
> ...


 Right?! Or use something ELSE! They had tons of lovely decorations/candles/handmade pieces that could have been substituted! I would have redone it myself- but I was on crutches and couldn't bring my camera!


jaomul said:


> I'll say this, and this is not to piss off wedding phographers who actually have skill and care.
> 
> I think you would be fine because you are looking for advise and care about your end product. I'm not saying you'll be a threat to many pros but I'd imagine from seeing you here on forum you would get the job done.
> 
> ...



Thank you for the kind words! They are treasured. Its a big commitment, and I do not always Handel stress well (leading up to the "moment" but I usually find some inner piece when I need to charge on! {Art of me feels like I could let them own either way. If I say no, they could hire a a nightmare- if I say yes, I could BE their nightmare! :giggle: :sigh:


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## JustJazzie (Mar 6, 2015)

Okay, these quotes are getting CRAZY! Leet me try this tagging business!
@TreeofLifeStairs I might look into it. But it seems like a hassle for just one day.... Can you even get insurance for one day? lol
@tirediron I wonder if I can rent a flash/bracket setup! I will consider asking them to buy, but I am not sure what their financial status is right now. I believe the groom was out of a job for a bit, which may be why they are coming to me. 
@dannybell thanks for the tip!


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## Parker219 (Mar 6, 2015)

This is my advice...take it or leave it...

Please don't do this shoot for FREE. Look how much work you are doing ALREADY and think about how much work you WILL be doing between now and until they have the final photos.

I would AT LEAST have them pay you $500....and here is why...

You said its you or craigslist...well how much do you think someone off Craigslist would charge them for a wedding?

Anyone worth ANYTHING would charge more than $500.

You will most likely be preparing for this photo shoot between now and the wedding, spending a lot of time and even your own money ( gas / expenses ), plus you are most likely going to have 1,000 or so photos to go upload, sort, look at, EDIT......EDIT....then you have to EDIT each photo......then you have to EDIT...ONE.....THOUSAND...photos.

Tell them they can pay you with some of the cash they get as wedding gifts and you can go buy some camera equipment.


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## gsgary (Mar 6, 2015)

I'm not having a paid photographer at my wedding on D Day 6th June because there is not one in our area that I would trust 2 of my friends volunteered straight away they don't shoot weddings but I love their photography, one of them has the biggest Leica collection you are likely to see and shoot just like Martin Parr which is perfect for me


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## JustJazzie (Mar 6, 2015)

gsgary said:


> I'm not having a paid photographer at my wedding on D Day 6th June because there is not one in our area that I would trust 2 of my friends volunteered straight away they don't shoot weddings but I love their photography, one of them has the biggest Leica collection you are likely to see and shoot just like Martin Parr which is perfect for me


Must be the Leica. Obviously he would be talentless without it. ;-)


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## JustJazzie (Mar 6, 2015)

Parker219 said:


> This is my advice...take it or leave it...
> 
> Please don't do this shoot for FREE. Look how much work you are doing ALREADY and think about how much work you WILL be doing between now and until they have the final photos.
> 
> ...


I understand it is a huge commitment. However- I am not comfortable charging for work I have never done before! I enjoy the work and I need a hobby. ;-) I've been feeling in a slump lately so this sounds like a fun push! 

I'll consider the flash business, but I won't be charging.


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## Parker219 (Mar 6, 2015)

You don't feel comfortable charging....but you feel comfortable taking the photos!!??!?!


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## JustJazzie (Mar 6, 2015)

Parker219 said:


> You don't feel comfortable charging....but you feel comfortable taking the photos!!??!?!


Correct. Is being nice for the sake of being nice such a novel concept?

What is the difference between this and a TFP'S modeling shoot? I'm getting to practice, build my portfolio for the future, and they are getting memoriws! Isn't that a win win?!


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## astroNikon (Mar 6, 2015)

I don't charge either .. but don't tell anyone that.


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## goooner (Mar 6, 2015)

JustJazzie said:


> Parker219 said:
> 
> 
> > You don't feel comfortable charging....but you feel comfortable taking the photos!!??!?!
> ...



It really depends on how much money/time it will cost you. With the amount of effort/money it will cost you it might not be a clear win for you. On the other hand, if you enjoy it and like your results, it could open up an alternative income source for you in the future.  Before agreeing to do it  I would make sure that I have all the equipment I need though. And a TTL flash (preferably 2), is the bare minimum imo.


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## TreeofLifeStairs (Mar 6, 2015)

I'm no expert on it since I carry insurance year round but I'm fairly certain that you can be insured for individual events.


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## JustJazzie (Mar 6, 2015)

astroNikon said:


> I don't charge either .. but don't tell anyone that.


Yeah- it's hard to win on here. People who are just starting and charging shouldn't be- people who are doing it for free should be charging! ;-) can I charge them in hugs?


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## Parker219 (Mar 6, 2015)

JustJazzie said:


> Parker219 said:
> 
> 
> > You don't feel comfortable charging....but you feel comfortable taking the photos!!??!?!
> ...







They are taking advantage of you if they wont pay for your expenses and the bare minimum for your time.

We can agree to disagree, because I would never do a wedding for free....but you can if you want.

If I had to bet, I would say this will be your only wedding you shoot for free.


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## JustJazzie (Mar 6, 2015)

Parker219 said:


> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> > Parker219 said:
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I never said they didn't offer to pay me. They have. And so what if it's the only one I do for free? Then the next time if I charge at least that price comes with experience! ;-)


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## Vtec44 (Mar 6, 2015)

Did someone say wedding photography???


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## JustJazzie (Mar 6, 2015)

Vtec44 said:


> Did someone say wedding photography???


Only you as far as I'm aware. ;-) I just said mom in a dress with a camera who happens to stumble upon two people saying "I do"......
I guess I should skip the dress, or I might tripand break my camera. :giggle:


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## Derrel (Mar 6, 2015)

Good luck with the wedding photos, Jazzie. There's a first time for everything.


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## pixmedic (Mar 6, 2015)

Parker219 said:


> JustJazzie said:
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> > Parker219 said:
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you would be surprised.
we have done two weddings for free, and one more planned in October of this year. 

one for a friend we've known for almost 16 years, who has put us up in his house and fed us whenever we are visiting down there. 
one for a friend i went to EMT school with who got me my job. 
and the one in October will be for a friend i have known since I was 12.


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## Parker219 (Mar 6, 2015)

^ Such good friends would know how much work was involved, and would at least give you $500 for expenses? No?

All my friends would. If I tried to say no, they would hide the money in my camera bag or something.


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## JustJazzie (Mar 6, 2015)

Derrel said:


> Good luck with the wedding photos, Jazzie. There's a first time for everything.


Woah there ! Don't wish me luck yet. I haven't committed. First comes the tpf poll, next comes the tarot spread! Then I decide what to say to the bride. ;-)


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## pixmedic (Mar 6, 2015)

Parker219 said:


> ^ Such good friends would know how much work was involved, and would at least give you $500 for expenses? No?
> 
> All my friends would. If I tried to say no, they would hide the money in my camera bag or something.



maybe we just have different concepts of friendship. 
why does money have to change hands to prove friendship?


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## Parker219 (Mar 6, 2015)

pixmedic said:


> Parker219 said:
> 
> 
> > ^ Such good friends would know how much work was involved, and would at least give you $500 for expenses? No?
> ...




Um...I didn't say it had to change hands to prove friendship...I am just saying my friends wouldn't let me shoot their wedding for free.


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## pixmedic (Mar 6, 2015)

Parker219 said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> > Parker219 said:
> ...


I wouldn't let them pay me


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## JustJazzie (Mar 6, 2015)

Derrel said:


> Good luck with the wedding photos, Jazzie. There's a first time for everything.


Ps- no wedding thread is complete without "Derrel's first wedding shoot" story! ;-)


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## Vtec44 (Mar 6, 2015)

IMHO, this is a personal decision.  You know yourself best.  The first time of everything is always exciting and scary.  

One picture from my first wedding ever


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## Parker219 (Mar 6, 2015)

Uh trust me, I have played the "hide the money" game...where I have to hide money is their house somewhere...but they always give it back. ha


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## JustJazzie (Mar 6, 2015)

Vtec44 said:


> IMHO, this is a personal decision.  You know yourself best.  The first time of everything is always exciting and scary.
> 
> One picture from my first wedding ever
> 
> View attachment 96547


We're they happy though?! That's the ultimate question.


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## unpopular (Mar 6, 2015)

tirediron said:


> Why don't you e-mail her a couple of your Leicas Gary?  Then the pictures would be perfect!



A wedding is no place for pervy "street photography" by rich old dudes who have an upskirt problem.


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## Designer (Mar 6, 2015)

1.  Jazzie; yes, you need to have a good contract.  I think you should ask an attorney to write one up.  This might be an unexpected expense for you, but believe me, it will pay for itself many times over in case something goes awry.

2. You do not need to make any reference to money, either in concept or in specifics, but the contract should spell out what is expected of each party, you and the bride.  The bride or her designate should be responsible for obtaining the full cooperation of everyone she wants pictures of, among other things.  

3. If the bride chooses to pay you, you still do not need to name a specific amount, but whatever she offers, just accept it gracefully.

4. If you do not have a declared business, I believe it will not be necessary to report the income and pay taxes on a one-time receipt.  You can call your local state and IRS office for clarification.

5. Ignore the nay-sayers and have fun!


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## Vtec44 (Mar 6, 2015)

JustJazzie said:


> We're they happy though?! That's the ultimate question.



At the time probably yes.  Now probably no.  lol


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## Parker219 (Mar 6, 2015)

At least so far...everyone says to do it.


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## TCampbell (Mar 6, 2015)

pixmedic said:


> we typically do the formals after the ceremony, but before the reception.
> Usually right where the wedding ceremony was done. we set up the camera on a tripod, some lights on stands, and shoot in groups. we decide ahead of time what groups we are going to do and in what order.
> full wedding party is almost always first for us.
> bride/groom
> ...



I usually got the parents done first...  the rationale here is that they are the hosts of the event and need to get over to the reception.  This comes up in the planning phase so that they understand we're doing it in that order to avoid formals holding up the reception when the reception is "immediately following" the ceremony with no break in between.  

Once family shots are complete, they can head over to the reception while we shoot the formals involving the wedding party.


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## pixmedic (Mar 6, 2015)

TCampbell said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> > we typically do the formals after the ceremony, but before the reception.
> ...



oh, I didnt list the actual order we go in. it varies from wedding to wedding.
except for the full wedding party usually being first for us, the rest is just a general list.


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## JustJazzie (Mar 6, 2015)

astroNikon said:


> I don't charge either .. but don't tell anyone that.





Parker219 said:


> At least so far...everyone says to do it.


 crazy huh?! Must be because I gated out the pessimests.  ;-)



TCampbell said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> > we typically do the formals after the ceremony, but before the reception.
> ...


Good tip! Parents first! Got it.


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## DandL (Mar 7, 2015)

Vtec44 said:


> IMHO, this is a personal decision.  You know yourself best.  The first time of everything is always exciting and scary.
> 
> One picture from my first wedding ever
> 
> View attachment 96547


You know the bride and groom are meant for each other when they wear the same style shades.


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## weepete (Mar 7, 2015)

Go for it Jazzie!

Yep  wedding shoots are difficult and I've turned down a few too. However you are aware of the pitfalls and from your shots I've seen I think you are a very capable photographer and someone who can pull this off.


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## gsgary (Mar 7, 2015)

JustJazzie said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not having a paid photographer at my wedding on D Day 6th June because there is not one in our area that I would trust 2 of my friends volunteered straight away they don't shoot weddings but I love their photography, one of them has the biggest Leica collection you are likely to see and shoot just like Martin Parr which is perfect for me
> ...



Don't worry he has plenty of talent


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## gsgary (Mar 7, 2015)

unpopular said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> > Why don't you e-mail her a couple of your Leicas Gary?  Then the pictures would be perfect!
> ...



Less of the rich and old, pervy is ok


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## The_Traveler (Mar 7, 2015)

Contract, yes, because you need to manage their expectations and set limits.
Insurance, at least for your gear. What if some one picks up a camera and drops it in the punch bowl?
A minder to get people rounded up for shots, this should be in contract.

Charge or not, you are incurring responsibility and liabilities; contract/agreements and insurance manage all of those.


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## IronMaskDuval (Mar 7, 2015)

I've never charged for a wedding, and I've only shot weddings for friends and extended family that either couldn't afford a photographer or at first hired a person with a camera selling themselves off as a professional and charging them a rate beyond their capabilities. Looking at your photos, you are competent, and I believe that you have the skills to shoot low and mid tier expectations and be able to over deliver. Can you shoot a wedding with high expectations from a client? Perhaps, but I wouldn't risk it. The difference between photographer and client is that as photographers who are professionals or true enthusiasts, we have higher expectations for our clients than our clients have for us, and we want to be able to deliver an end product to them that they never saw coming (in a good way, exceptional).

People don't become snots until they are taught and demonstrated on how to be a snot. It's like fine art and fine wine. It's all ugly and nasty until you learn how to appreciate it.


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## Designer (Mar 7, 2015)

IronMaskDuval said:


> .. we have higher expectations for our clients than our clients have for us..


I think she has that.


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## JustJazzie (Mar 7, 2015)

Just an interesting tidbit: because I know photographers have higher expectations that the masses, I polled my homeschool moms forum for ladies who did NOT hire a professional photographer at their wedding. I asked them weather they were happy with the resulting photographs.

 Out of 50 (so far)
3 responded that they did hire a pro and were terribly disappointed, (some funny stories to go along with these responses.)
6 were neutral, just happy to have pictures but didn't consider themselves unhappy,
7 were unhappy and wish they could go back and hire a pro. (One had a friend who showed up with an IPAD to shoot, oh my.)
38 were absolutely happy, and glad they didn't waste the money.





The_Traveler said:


> Contract, yes, because you need to manage their expectations and set limits.
> Insurance, at least for your gear. What if some one picks up a camera and drops it in the punch bowl?
> A minder to get people rounded up for shots, this should be in contract.
> 
> Charge or not, you are incurring responsibility and liabilities; contract/agreements and insurance manage all of those.


I will definitely do a contract! And I will look into insurance, but we are sort of anti insurance. Had a bad experience once and we like to just "self insure" ;-) and don't worry, I won't leave my camera with anyone, and I'll keep a 10 foot distance from the punch bowl. (Much further than I keep from my water in the water drop pictures I take ;-) ) my mom is an insurance agent though, so I will talk to her and still consider it!



IronMaskDuval said:


> I've never charged for a wedding, and I've only shot weddings for friends and extended family that either couldn't afford a photographer or at first hired a person with a camera selling themselves off as a professional and charging them a rate beyond their capabilities. Looking at your photos, you are competent, and I believe that you have the skills to shoot low and mid tier expectations and be able to over deliver. Can you shoot a wedding with high expectations from a client? Perhaps, but I wouldn't risk it. The difference between photographer and client is that as photographers who are professionals or true enthusiasts, we have higher expectations for our clients than our clients have for us, and we want to be able to deliver an end product to them that they never saw coming (in a good way, exceptional).
> 
> People don't become snots until they are taught and demonstrated on how to be a snot. It's like fine art and fine wine. It's all ugly and nasty until you learn how to appreciate it.


I'll definitely talk their expectations way down! 


Designer said:


> IronMaskDuval said:
> 
> 
> > .. we have higher expectations for our clients than our clients have for us..
> ...


 me? High self expectations? Never. ;-)


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## The_Traveler (Mar 7, 2015)

JustJazzie said:


> And I will look into insurance, but we are sort of anti insurance. Had a bad experience once and we like to just "self insure" ;-)



It's lucky for you that you liked sex the first time.


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## JustJazzie (Mar 7, 2015)

Well, after some careful meditation and consideration on everyone's thoughts- I have decided to decline shooting the wedding. This is all adding up to way too much stress and hassle. No reason to ruin a fun hobby with unnecessary stress.

Thanks for all the food for thought and encouragement, it's is truly appreciated.

My hats off to all of you who do this regularly. ;-)

Now I need to figure out a polite way to decline......


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## TreeofLifeStairs (Mar 7, 2015)

JustJazzie said:


> Well, after some careful meditation and consideration on everyone's thoughts- I have decided to decline shooting the wedding. This is all adding up to way too much stress and hassle. No reason to ruin a fun hobby with unnecessary stress.
> 
> Thanks for all the food for thought and encouragement, it's is truly appreciated.
> 
> ...




No, don't give up. The first time is always the most stressful. You can do it.


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## tirediron (Mar 7, 2015)

While I am a bit disappointed, i think you've made the decision that is right for you.


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## JustJazzie (Mar 7, 2015)

TreeofLifeStairs said:


> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> > Well, after some careful meditation and consideration on everyone's thoughts- I have decided to decline shooting the wedding. This is all adding up to way too much stress and hassle. No reason to ruin a fun hobby with unnecessary stress.
> ...


 aww, thank you! It's not giving up exactly. It's putting a cap on the stresses I will choose to allow in my life. We have a bathroom remodel going on right now, the computer is down and it's being fixed is on the back burner because our dishwasher broke this week. We homeschool year round so we will still have school going on. The wedding is 2.5 hours away. Insurance, child care, research. It IS a lot of time, and a HUGE commitment, and I am simply saying "I don't want to devote my time to this right now!"  It's not that I don't think I am capable of shooting this, I am just choosing to put my efforts towards other endeavors. ;-)  


tirediron said:


> While I am a bit disappointed, i think you've made the decision that is right for you.


thank you, tirediron! I agree. I am dissapointed at giving up the opportunity, but I doubt its one I will never again come across.;-) you know, when the kids are grown and I'm bored out of my comfort zone. ;-)


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