# Indoor Photography - No Flash



## Nikkor (Dec 14, 2009)

I hate using my D60's little pop up flash and haven't been able to afford a new legit flash quite yet, so I'm wondering what's a setting you like to use when you're say .... shooting a birthday party in a poorly lit restaurant? Is it really just trial and error? I really want an Orbis Ring Flash. 

My 18-105mm's F drops down to 3.5.


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## Goontz (Dec 14, 2009)

I don't think there's any way someone can suggest a setting that will work without knowing exactly what the lighting is like, etc. You'll probably have to use the lowest aperture you can and up your ISO, which will then introduce noise with the D60 depending on how high you go. Aside from that: trial and error.


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## Big Mike (Dec 14, 2009)

Sometimes there are just limits to what you can do.

If there isn't enough light, then you will have to compromise somewhere else.  For example, you can take a photo even when it's quite dark, but you'll just need a slower shutter speed to get enough light.  A slow shutter speed will render motion as blur though...so if the camera or the subject is moving, there will be blur.  

If you want to reduce blur, you will have to stick with a shutter speed that is fast enough.  The rule of thumb for hand holding the camera while avoiding camera shake, is 1/focal length.  So for a FL of 100mm, you would want a shutter speed of 1/100.  Some say that you should figure in the crop factor, so you'd want a shutter speed of at least 1/150.  

Now, it's not that easy...you can't just set a shutter speed of 1/150.  To get a proper exposure at that speed, you may need a large aperture.  I think that lens has a max of F5.6 (when at 105mm), which is rather small.  The only other option you have, is to crank up the ISO...but that introduces noise.  And there is the compromise you'd have to make.

This is why it's really helpful to have 'fast' lenses (large max aperture).  Something like a 50mm F1.4 would let in a lot more light than your slow zoom lens, thus allowing you to get faster shutter speeds without having to max out the ISO.  (depending on the light, of course).

Sometimes, even all that is not enough (although, the best DSLR cameras are getting very good at high ISO, which allows them to shoot in lower light).
So when that's not enough, you might have to consider adding your own light....flash being the most common way of doing that.

Of course, the on-camera flash is going to give you poor results.  It's just too small, too underpowered and too close to the lens.  Get a flash that can bounce, or better yet, get a flash that you can use off-camera.


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## Nikkor (Dec 14, 2009)

Thanks Big Mike. You can delete this topic now. That answers my questions. I made a note of what you said. Grazie.


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## IgsEMT (Dec 14, 2009)

_aaah, what the h***, my 5cents._

D60, I believe has same (don't quote me on it) sensor as D50, D70, D80, D200, D40 models have. Meaning shooting at higher ISOs will totally suck thus ISO400 is a safest way to start. You kit lens probably can't be open wider then 5.6 unless you shoot wider then you'll get wider apertures. 
SO... ISO 400, f/5.6, 1/60 (1/50) sec. 
Personally, I prefer a bit of grain/noise on BW thus if you go to ISO800, you'll get that extra stop but will be grainy - again, I have no problem with that but these are your images.

There are some cheaper 3rd party flash units out there that are significantly cheaper. Most can be used in manual mode. If you do get one, try this starting point...
ISO 400, 1/60sec, f/5.6, flash at 1/4power with stofen(similar) diffuser on facing straight forward - 10-15 feet from your subject, lighting should be ok ( but needs to metered). When you bounce the flash, boosting up to 1/2 power and a bounce card (self made) will usually be enough. *However,* it is hard to judge the situation w/o actually seeing it thus settings I through out are just starting points and NEED to be adjusted.
Oh and ofcourse, unless you're shooting raw, preset your WB


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## Dao (Dec 14, 2009)

WeddingPhotographer said:


> I hate using my D60's little pop up flash and haven't been able to afford a new legit flash quite yet. ...



Well, you may try to diffuse the on-camera flash and see if it give you a better results.

i.e.
Reduce, Reuse, Diffuse: Make Your Own Flash Diffuser from an Old Film Container « Photojojo


Or search for "pop-up flash diffuser" in google.


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## KmH (Dec 14, 2009)

WeddingPhotographer said:


> Thanks Big Mike. You can delete this topic now. That answers my questions. I made a note of what you said. Grazie.


Most people that visit TPF aren't members. Your question is of benefit to many people beyond yourself. They won't delete the thread.


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## bennielou (Apr 21, 2010)

Unfortunately, you can not do it properly with what you have currently.  I shoot in dark situations all the time, and the fix is to lift the flash off the camera, and shoot up or backwards.  That is the only real way to do it.  But you also have to shoot in manual to pull this off.


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## Nikkor (Apr 21, 2010)

I always shoot in manual. Plus now I have the SB-900 on my new D3S, so I don't need this thread anymore.


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## bennielou (Apr 21, 2010)

I'm just trying to help you.  But if you don't want it, that's cool.


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## Nikkor (Apr 21, 2010)

No, no worries. Wasn't trying to be rude. I was just saying I fixed the problem. There was no way around it, I needed a flash that moved like you and everybody else said.


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## bennielou (Apr 21, 2010)

So let me ask you a question......just for conversations sake.  How would you shoot a night time wedding with no flash from a long distance?

I'm not picking on you, I am just asking.


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## Nikkor (Apr 21, 2010)

With my new camera, my ISO is incredible, but I think I'd just avoid the situation all together. I hadn't been put in the situation before. I always had the resources available to me, so I could use the flash if I needed to (even before I purchased my own) but it'd be impossible with my dinky D60.


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## bennielou (Apr 21, 2010)

Nikkor said:


> No, no worries. Wasn't trying to be rude. I was just saying I fixed the problem. There was no way around it, I needed a flash that moved like you and everybody else said.


 
And that is good.  I never had a pop up flash, but sometimes I wished for one, back in the old days.

A reflector is your friend.  Just set it on the lap of the subject.  Pretty much the same as a flash.

What flash did you end up getting.  I won't attack you for your answer.  Pretty much anything is better than a pop up.  I really do want to help.


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## bennielou (Apr 21, 2010)

Nikkor said:


> With my new camera, my ISO is incredible, but I think I'd just avoid the situation all together. I hadn't been put in the situation before. I always had the resources available to me, so I could use the flash if I needed to (even before I purchased my own) but it'd be impossible with my dinky D60.


 

Yeah that is a hard one.  Here in the south, we can NEVER use flash and normally have too shoot from a football field away.  It is super hard.  It's tricky too.  You have to have crazy equipment, and really steady hands.  It's hard to be sure.

Keep investing in upgrades.  It will only help you in the future.


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## Nikkor (Apr 21, 2010)

Yeah, I have a reflector as well, I like using it most of the time. I have an SB-900. I just bought a Nikon D3S a few months ago, so I've upped my equipment to the best of the best (or at least that's my opinion)


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## bennielou (Apr 21, 2010)

Nikkor said:


> Yeah, I have a reflector as well, I like using it most of the time. I have an SB-900. I just bought a Nikon D3S a few months ago, so I've upped my equipment to the best of the best (or at least that's my opinion)


 

And hey that is cool.  It shows you mean business.  This will only mean more money in the future.


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## Nikkor (Apr 21, 2010)

Yeah its pretty darn sexy if I do say so myself ...

D3S from Nikon


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## myfotoguy (Apr 21, 2010)

Wow, old thread. Great info too.

*For someone reading this that might currently be limited to a kit lens and pop-up flash:*


I would recommend finding some kind of flash diffuser to see if that helps. I normally use my speedlight, so when I do use my pop-up I don't have anything in front ot it.
Know the limits of your flash, the range is usually only up to 10-15 feet (check your manual).
You may see a tendancy to overexpose if subject is close and the ambient bacground is also metered by the camera. Learning to use flash exposure compensation would help greatly.
Use slow-rear sync if available. In this mode I usually go to manual and adjust the ISO to let in more ambient light and shoot wide open or one f/stop up for more sharpness. I adjust the shutter-speed as needed for the action, but if it's "low" action generally around 1/30 give or take a stop or two is sufficient. Straight slow-rear sync in say, aperture priority mode tends to set the speed too low for some subjects.
If you are totally new at this, and want a qucik setting for the situation the OP mentioned, and are not familiar yet with exposure settings and the exposure triangle, etc. Try a "Night Portrait" setting if your camera has scene modes.
The above is not the "best" solutions, but some ideas if you are currently limited with your equipment.

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