# The DEATH of the Consumer Camera?



## dascrow (Sep 6, 2016)

Interesting video and viewpoint.  I couldn't agree more that some of these companies need to start thinking more like a software company rather then just hardware company.


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 6, 2016)

Is the iPhone 7 camera the end of DSLRs?


----------



## Ysarex (Sep 6, 2016)

Yikes! A picture of Tony Northrup -- quick, CLICK AWAY! Whew.


----------



## robbins.photo (Sep 6, 2016)

dascrow said:


> Interesting video and viewpoint.  I couldn't agree more that some of these companies need to start thinking more like a software company rather then just hardware company.



Ok, for those of us who either don't have sound at work on our PC or really don't want to sit through a long boring video maybe you could summarize the viewpoint and tell us why it's interesting?


----------



## TheLibrarian (Sep 6, 2016)

Not gonna watch it but I can imagine that consumer point and shoots are much more vulnerable than high end dslr's and professional cameras to cell phones. Low end slr's are debatable as to whether hobbyists will want the ability to have more lenses, controls n stuff.


----------



## Ysarex (Sep 6, 2016)

robbins.photo said:


> dascrow said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting video and viewpoint.  I couldn't agree more that some of these companies need to start thinking more like a software company rather then just hardware company.
> ...



I haven't watched it. No way am I going to watch it. However I'm confident I can summarize it for you: Consumers are satisfied with their phone cameras. Another stunning revelation from Tony Northrup.

Joe


----------



## 480sparky (Sep 6, 2016)

robbins.photo said:


> Ok, for those of us who either don't have sound at work on our PC or really don't want to sit through a long boring video maybe you could summarize the viewpoint and tell us why it's interesting?



It's not interesting 'cuz Chelsea's not in it.


----------



## robbins.photo (Sep 6, 2016)

Ysarex said:


> I haven't watched it. No way am I going to watch it. However I'm confident I can summarize it for you: Consumers are satisfied with their phone cameras. Another stunning revelation from Tony Northrup.
> 
> Joe



Ok, well if such is the case I guess my response would be, bully for them.

But, I'm still keeping my DSLR.. lol


----------



## table1349 (Sep 6, 2016)

Where is Ken Rockwell when we need him??????


----------



## Ysarex (Sep 6, 2016)

gryphonslair99 said:


> Where is Ken Rockwell when we need him??????



Busy writing a review of his new phone camera.

Joe


----------



## table1349 (Sep 6, 2016)

I'm giving 3 to 1 odds that Ken Rockwell and Tony Northrup are besties.


----------



## PersistentNomad (Sep 6, 2016)

It's not so much a revelation as an expected (and detailed) history. I only made it halfway, which is unfortunate because I think he was finally past the history lesson and going to get to the point. But, I think I disagree. Consumer cameras aren't gone, it's just that what used to be pro-quality cameras are the new consumer cam, and it will keep going that way for a while. 

People have been declaring that painting is dead since 1898 because of photography. Guess what? It's not.


----------



## table1349 (Sep 6, 2016)

PersistantNomad said:


> It's not so much a revelation as an expected (and detailed) history. I only made it halfway, which is unfortunate because I think he was finally past the history lesson and going to get to the point. But, I think I disagree. Consumer cameras aren't gone, it's just that what used to be pro-quality cameras are the new consumer cam, and it will keep going that way for a while.
> 
> People have been declaring that painting is dead since 1898 because of photography. Guess what? It's not.


Wait.......................... what.................................. you actually listened to and then thought about something that Tony Northrup said.


----------



## Ysarex (Sep 6, 2016)

gryphonslair99 said:


> PersistantNomad said:
> 
> 
> > It's not so much a revelation as an expected (and detailed) history. I only made it halfway, which is unfortunate because I think he was finally past the history lesson and going to get to the point. But, I think I disagree. Consumer cameras aren't gone, it's just that what used to be pro-quality cameras are the new consumer cam, and it will keep going that way for a while.
> ...






One glass every morning and you too can be a fauxtographer.

Joe


----------



## table1349 (Sep 6, 2016)

Ysarex said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> > PersistantNomad said:
> ...


Is the Tony Northrup Kool-Aid like the Jim Jones Kool-Aid?


----------



## EIngerson (Sep 6, 2016)

I really like yellow peppers (banana peppers) on a sub sandwich. They're delicious.


----------



## Ysarex (Sep 6, 2016)

gryphonslair99 said:


> Ysarex said:
> 
> 
> > gryphonslair99 said:
> ...



Hmmm. Just click and send money to Tony and you'll be in fauxtog heaven. Does have a familiar ring.

Joe


----------



## table1349 (Sep 6, 2016)

EIngerson said:


> I really like yellow peppers (banana peppers) on a sub sandwich. They're delicious.


_"I Like Santa"_
_



_


----------



## PersistentNomad (Sep 6, 2016)

No, no, guys. I just had a crying baby and it was like "oh, something that will keep her entertained *and* I can have an informed opinion about it."


----------



## table1349 (Sep 6, 2016)

PersistantNomad said:


> No, no, guys. I just had a crying baby and it was like "oh, something that will keep her entertained *and* I can have an informed opinion about it."


Too late, there is no getting out of it, you admitted on the inter web that you actually listened to Tony Northrup.   That's like stepping in dog poop.  You can try to scrape it off with a stick but the stink is still there.


----------



## tirediron (Sep 6, 2016)

gryphonslair99 said:


> Is the Tony Northrup Kool-Aid like the Jim Jones Kool-Aid?


Jim Jones Kool-Aid is far less toxic, but on the plus side, you don't have to live in a shanty-town in Guyana to try it....


----------



## PersistentNomad (Sep 6, 2016)

gryphonslair99 said:


> PersistantNomad said:
> 
> 
> > No, no, guys. I just had a crying baby and it was like "oh, something that will keep her entertained *and* I can have an informed opinion about it."
> ...



Truth be told, I actually had no idea who he was. It wasn't until reading all your comments that I knew his name and got the impression he was not well loved. I just thought he was boring.


----------



## robbins.photo (Sep 6, 2016)

PersistantNomad said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> > PersistantNomad said:
> ...


Lol.  Don't let the peanut gallery get you down.  The guy featured in the video has a reputation for putting out a lot of confusing information that many times turns out to be misinformation so he's not well thought of by many of the folks here.



Sent from my N9518 using Tapatalk


----------



## limr (Sep 6, 2016)

Define "consumer camera." I, for one, do not consider a DLSR a "consumer camera." A DSLR is for someone who is more interested in photography than your average bear. Sure, there are entry level "consumer" models, but  that is just to distingish thwm feom pros - I don't think this has anything to do with your typical "consumers" of digital photgraphy. They just want to snap away to capture moments, events, vacation spots, and don't really care that much about how the image gets taken or even how well it comes out. Can we make out the faces? Not blurry? No one has derp face? Can I sufficiently impress my Facebook friends with a picture of this tourist site?

A "consumer camera" then, is one that can satisfy a typical consumer, and those cameras aren't even close to death. They're just called "smartphones" now. And as long as there are people with more than just a passing interest in photography, there will be entry level DSLR/mirrorless cameras and higher ends for the pros.

But what the hell do I care as long as there is film  (No, it's not dead either.)


----------



## Ysarex (Sep 6, 2016)

limr said:


> Define "consumer camera." I, for one, do not consider a DLSR a "consumer camera." A DSLR is for someone who is more interested in photography than your average bear. Sure, there are entry level "consumer" models, but I don't think that has to do wit hyouA typical "consumer" just wants to snap away to capture moments, events, vacation spots, and who doesn't really care that much about how the image gets taken or even how well it comes out. Can we make out the faces? Not blurry? No one has derp face? I can sufficiently impress my Facebook friends with a picture of this tourist site?
> 
> A "consumer camera" then, is one that can satisfy a typical consumer, and those cameras aren't even close to death. They're just called "smartphones" now. And as long as there are people with more than just a passing interest in photography, there will be entry level DSLR/mirrorless cameras and higher ends for the pros.
> 
> But what the hell do I care as long as there is film  (No, it's not dead either.)



You didn't step in the poop too..................did you?

Joe


----------



## Luke345678 (Sep 6, 2016)

I know Tony isn't very popular on this forum and I'm not gonna lie, I get it. Dude is... interesting. Still, a pretty interesting video with some interesting statistics and charts.


----------



## limr (Sep 6, 2016)

Ysarex said:


> limr said:
> 
> 
> > Define "consumer camera." I, for one, do not consider a DLSR a "consumer camera." A DSLR is for someone who is more interested in photography than your average bear. Sure, there are entry level "consumer" models, but I don't think that has to do with your typical "consumer." They just want to snap away to capture moments, events, vacation spots, and don't really care that much about how the image gets taken or even how well it comes out. Can we make out the faces? Not blurry? No one has derp face? Can I sufficiently impress my Facebook friends with a picture of this tourist site?
> ...



If you mean watch the video, no, I have better things to do.  Otherwise, I'm not sure what poop I would have stepped in (other than the sentence that I hadn't finished editing before hitting Reply  )


----------



## table1349 (Sep 6, 2016)

Luke345678 said:


> I know Tony isn't very popular on this forum and I'm not gonna lie, I get it. Dude is... interesting. Still, a pretty interesting video with some interesting statistics and charts.


Not without twenty seven eight-by-ten color glossy pictures with the circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one it's not.


----------



## table1349 (Sep 6, 2016)

robbins.photo said:


> PersistantNomad said:
> 
> 
> > gryphonslair99 said:
> ...


Your just jealous cause the elephants get all the peanuts.  Sorry, no banana gallery today.  

Yes we have no bananas
We have no bananas today
We have string beans and onions
Cabbages and scallions
And all kinds of fruit, and say

We have an old fashioned tomato
A Long Island potato
But yes we have no bananas
We have no bananas today

Yes we have no bananas
We have no bananas today
We have string beans and onions
Cabbages and scallions
And all kinds of fruit, and say

We have an old fashioned tomato
A Long Island potato
But yes we have no bananas 
We have no bananas today


----------



## tecboy (Sep 7, 2016)

Oh NO!  Some members got brainwashed by Tony's Video!


----------



## unpopular (Sep 7, 2016)

Ysarex said:


> Yikes! A picture of Tony Northrup -- quick, CLICK AWAY! Whew.



Precisely my thoughts! Not even worth considering.


----------



## Tim Tucker (Sep 7, 2016)

That the vast majority of people who want images for social media will use smart phones is a no-brainer. So will the vast majority of people who can satisfy their creativity by selecting pre-programmed choices.

But I don't see how the camera industry is going to die because of it. I mean in _his_ very video _his_ very charts show a healthy camera industry that was selling far lower volumes of cameras then it does presently, it wasn't dead then so why should it be now?


----------



## KJH1958 (Sep 7, 2016)

There was a time when it was thought Television would mean the death of the  Movie Industry too....


----------



## astroNikon (Sep 7, 2016)

We should be grateful.
With the advent of the death of the dslr
then Tony won't have anything to make any more complaining false videos of

I can't wait until that day.


----------



## PersistentNomad (Sep 7, 2016)

Tim Tucker said:


> But I don't see how the camera industry is going to die because of it. I mean in _his_ very video _his_ very charts show a healthy camera industry that was selling far lower volumes of cameras then it does presently, it wasn't dead then so why should it be now?





astroNikon said:


> We should be grateful.
> With the advent of the death of the dslr then Tony won't have anything to make any more complaining false videos of



But... I don't think he was declaring the death of the camera industry as a whole, I think he was declaring the death of the low-end consumer camera, which I think is probably true. But like I said, I can't guarantee that's his thesis as I opted out of his boring speech pattern before he really got to his point. My hypothesis is that semi-pro dslr's are the new "low-end" consumer camera.


----------



## table1349 (Sep 7, 2016)

PersistentNomad said:


> Tim Tucker said:
> 
> 
> > But I don't see how the camera industry is going to die because of it. I mean in _his_ very video _his_ very charts show a healthy camera industry that was selling far lower volumes of cameras then it does presently, it wasn't dead then so why should it be now?
> ...


Really?  You think all the mom's and pop's are going to go out and by 1Dx MII's, D5's or Hasselblad H4-D's?  If you actually read the posts in the various forums here, especially the beginner forum, and the various individual make forums, especially the Canon and Nikon forums you would know that is not true.  It's all about what consumer lens for my consumer camera I just bought.


----------



## Scatterbrained (Sep 7, 2016)

All I know is that over the past few years I've seen the decline in SLR and bridge cameras at theme parks, steadily replaced with first phones and now GoPros/phones/tablets.  Lots of GoPros the past two years though.


----------



## robbins.photo (Sep 8, 2016)

Scatterbrained said:


> All I know is that over the past few years I've seen the decline in SLR and bridge cameras at theme parks, steadily replaced with first phones and now GoPros/phones/tablets.  Lots of GoPros the past two years though.


I still see plenty of dslr and mirrorless at the zoo.  Yes, as small cameras in such devices improve it does change the market.  

But I don't see the dslr going anywhere anytime soon.  The stuff still sells like crazy even used.  

There are still more than enough folks who want a higher end camera than what a cellphone or similar device can provide.

Sent from my N9518 using Tapatalk


----------



## sashbar (Sep 8, 2016)

I watched it and found it very interesting.


----------



## PersistentNomad (Sep 8, 2016)

gryphonslair99 said:


> Really? You think all the mom's and pop's are going to go out and by 1Dx MII's, D5's or Hasselblad H4-D's?



I'm not sure if you mean stores or actual moms and dads, but my hypothesis remains. Maybe it's just the communities I've lived in, which tend to be wealthier than other regions of America. But, even back in 2009 when I was in Memphis, average people were opting out of typical point and shoots and opting in for DSLRs. And this is something I've been seeing since I was in high-school, circa 2002. The young people coming up who want to get into photography have already been using things that are beyond a typical point and shoot camera. 
But you're right, currently, the semi-pros are just that. My argument is that as technology advances, and prices become more affordable for better tech, what is now considered semi-pro (mid-range) gear is going to become the new entry-level.


----------



## astroNikon (Sep 8, 2016)

I use my cellphone a lot.
But my 150-600mm doesn't hook up very well to it.

My cellphone totally beats my Nikon P7800 in most regards to the point the P7800's only real world advantage is a flippy screen and a full manual mode.

P&S's I think are dead in relation to cellphones.  I had a P&S and I never used it vs my cellphone which I thought was better in nearly every category that a basic user normally uses for pics and video.


----------



## table1349 (Sep 8, 2016)

astroNikon said:


> I use my cellphone a lot.
> But my 150-600mm doesn't hook up very well to it.
> 
> My cellphone totally beats my Nikon P7800 in most regards to the point the P7800's only real world advantage is a flippy screen and a full manual mode.
> ...


I would agree that the cheap P&S's are in decline.  The cellphone cameras are their equal these days and more convenient.


----------



## Braineack (Sep 8, 2016)

robbins.photo said:


> Ok, for those of us who either don't have sound at work on our PC or really don't want to sit through a long boring video maybe you could summarize the viewpoint and tell us why it's interesting?


A dumb moron says dumb moronic things.


----------



## table1349 (Sep 8, 2016)

Braineack said:


> robbins.photo said:
> 
> 
> > Ok, for those of us who either don't have sound at work on our PC or really don't want to sit through a long boring video maybe you could summarize the viewpoint and tell us why it's interesting?
> ...


You talking about Tony Northrup or Banana Breath???  Just trying to make sure I understand where your comment is directed.


----------



## Braineack (Sep 8, 2016)

Scatterbrained said:


> All I know is that over the past few years I've seen the decline in SLR and bridge cameras at theme parks, steadily replaced with first phones and now GoPros/phones/tablets.  Lots of GoPros the past two years though.


I was a little shocked by the number of DLSR and Brdige cameras I saw when touring UK and Italy actually...  Like way more than I'd expect.  I think people still realize, if they want good captures, they need a tool that can capture well.


----------



## Braineack (Sep 8, 2016)

I actually tried, but I couldn't get past the 0:22 mark.  So many miss-truths spoken in such a short amount of time.


----------



## robbins.photo (Sep 8, 2016)

Braineack said:


> robbins.photo said:
> 
> 
> > Ok, for those of us who either don't have sound at work on our PC or really don't want to sit through a long boring video maybe you could summarize the viewpoint and tell us why it's interesting?
> ...



Now that's what I call a synopsis.. lol


----------



## table1349 (Sep 8, 2016)

Scatterbrained said:


> All I know is that over the past few years I've seen the decline in SLR and bridge cameras at theme parks, steadily replaced with first phones and now GoPros/phones/tablets.  Lots of GoPros the past two years though.


Was in Orlando last year for a week.  There were numerous people carrying DSLR's, mirrorless, and P&S of all varieties at both Disney and Universal.  They easily outnumbered the Gopro's.   The phone people were generally did not seem to be concerned with the quality of their photos as much as just capturing their kiddies.   Heard several people complain that their phones wouldn't get the shots they wanted in several of the darker rides etc.


----------



## thereyougo! (Sep 12, 2016)

I think we are waiting for a breakthrough on the phone camera front to completely finish off consumer point and shoots.  There are some noises from LG and HTC.  I don't really count the Blad co-opeation with Moto or the DxO camera as part of the same element as both are really doing in a small way what the Sony QX series was doing.  

As well as the iPhone 6s, I have the Panasonic CM1.  It has the same 1 inch 20MP sensor as in the RX100.  It does RAW and full manual with apertures from f/2.8 fully open and f/11 fully stopped down.  The lens is a Leica branded 28mm equivalent lens and is decently sharp.  The thing that holds it back is the display.  It's pretty awful to use in direct sunlight and pretty low resolution.  If this was merged with the iPhone, then I would say that it would be a consumer camera killer and possibly a threat to the enthusiast fixed lens market too.  

The results are already pretty decent - two of my dog yesterday would be better than from some consumer cameras already:




Caesar in evening light by singingsnapper, on Flickr




Caesar in the evening garden by singingsnapper, on Flickr

These are both in-phone jpg files processed in-phone on snapseed.  I have the RAW files also as I save RAW+Fine on the 128GB microSD card in the phone...


----------



## astroNikon (Sep 12, 2016)

we need a P&S/DSLR that catches fire like those cell phones !!
that will kill their sales for good.


----------



## Braineack (Sep 12, 2016)

your shot at 1:1







one of mine:


----------



## thereyougo! (Sep 12, 2016)

Well if you will go pixel peeping.  I tend not to, just as my aim isn't to get paint on my nose when I visit the National Gallery.  Which camera is you from?

Here is the same image processed from the Raw file.




caesar in garden in evening  from raw by singingsnapper, on Flickr

And another from the same trip up the garden with my dog who sees anything remotely photographic as a sign of a walk or a run




Caesar out in Garden in evening by singingsnapper, on Flickr

As an aside, is it me, or is there more image degradation on flickr than before.  These shots are definitely shaper from inside PS


----------



## Braineack (Sep 13, 2016)

It's just a Samsung phone that it I rubber-banded to the back of my camera like your Panasonic...


----------



## BananaRepublic (Sep 13, 2016)

Star trek DSLR


----------



## thereyougo! (Sep 13, 2016)

Braineack said:


> It's just a Samsung phone that it I rubber-banded to the back of my camera like your Panasonic...



It is a proper phone.  It's weakness is the lower resolution screen.


----------



## Braineack (Sep 13, 2016)

thereyougo! said:


> Braineack said:
> 
> 
> > It's just a Samsung phone that it I rubber-banded to the back of my camera like your Panasonic...
> ...



That thing is a proper camera that just happens to have an interface running KitKat, so it has a phone app.


----------



## astroNikon (Sep 13, 2016)

Braineack said:


> thereyougo! said:
> 
> 
> > Braineack said:
> ...


Some of those Samsung's are really "hot" to use right now .. catching fire and all


----------



## table1349 (Sep 13, 2016)

I was out in downtown San Antonio yesterday and saw the most horrific sight.  A consumer Nikon camera ran out into the middle of the street stopping traffic.  It proceeded to pull out a can of gasoline and douse itself liberally.  Right before sticking a match it cursed Tony Northrup and smarphones before setting itself on fire.  All the smartphones stood around laughing, pointing and taking pictures. 

Now if you believe that story I will sell you the Golden Gate Bridge at a real good price.


----------



## robbins.photo (Sep 13, 2016)

gryphonslair99 said:


> Now if you believe that story I will sell you the Golden Gate Bridge at a real good price.



Depends.. whats the shutter count on this bridge of yours?


----------



## table1349 (Sep 13, 2016)

robbins.photo said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> > Now if you believe that story I will sell you the Golden Gate Bridge at a real good price.
> ...


100.  It was only used by a little old lady on Sundays to take a picture of her cat.   The cat moved away because it felt that smartphones were good enough for everyone, including sports, portrait and wedding photographers.


----------



## robbins.photo (Sep 13, 2016)

gryphonslair99 said:


> 100.  It was only used by a little old lady on Sundays to take a picture of her cat.   The cat moved away because it felt that smartphones were good enough for everyone, including sports, portrait and wedding photographers.



Ok, so really not interested in the bridge.  However the cat sounds intriguing...


----------



## thereyougo! (Sep 13, 2016)

Braineack said:


> thereyougo! said:
> 
> 
> > Braineack said:
> ...



It is a phone.  The CM10 is  the one that is a camera with Kitkat.  The CM1 has Kitkat running too, but is still a proper phone.  I'd say it is a hybrid phone/camera and to be fair I use it more as a camera than as a phone...


----------



## table1349 (Sep 13, 2016)

robbins.photo said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> > 100.  It was only used by a little old lady on Sundays to take a picture of her cat.   The cat moved away because it felt that smartphones were good enough for everyone, including sports, portrait and wedding photographers.
> ...


What's your offer???


----------

