# Flash vs Static Light... Questions.



## PNWSGM (Jun 12, 2012)

Alright, I am a complete newbie when it comes to flash lighting and photography and how they work together.   

I am going to be shooting a drift car here soon for a buddy. He is pro-am and needs pictures of him and his car to send out to different potential sponsors, we have a mutual friend who owns a extremely well known shop who currently sponsors his car. We plan on shooting the car inside of the shop which sponsors him. The shop has two lifts in line with each other, a drive on lift, and a dyno room which has a door so you can see in the room from the main area of the shop.   So, it should turn out to look pretty good, I think.

The one problem with the shop is the main area is 25 ft from the ground to ceiling, so the room is naturally dim from the lights being so high. I was planning on using a tripod but also want to play around with different lighting effects, mainly where the car is Brightly lit up and the background is dark/black. I think that will work pretty good with the way I have planned to do the shoot.   

Unfortunately, being a college student I have no money to drop on Nikon SB flashes... however I have come up with an idea I think will work.... (Puts on flame suit)   I was thinking of using the Halogen Construction lights that you see at most construction sites. I figure they are extremely bright and I have access to 2 different sets (4 bulbs total) so why not try and use them?   I'm not really sure what I am trying to find out here... I guess, does this sound like a bad idea? Will it give me the same effect as using a flash? Will I get the effect I am looking for?  

Either way I plan on taking my tripod incase this idea doesn't work out. Thanks for wading through my confusing post.


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## Espike (Jun 12, 2012)

How about light painting? Camera on tripod, lights off, long exposure and a bright light to light up the car and the area immediately around it. Do a google search for light painted car to see the results of which I speak.


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## PNWSGM (Jun 12, 2012)

Espike said:


> How about light painting? Camera on tripod, lights off, long exposure and a bright light to light up the car and the area immediately around it. Do a google search for light painted car to see the results of which I speak.



Ah that is what I am talking about. Probably will have to do that. Maybe using one of these construction lights seeing as all of their lights are tied together on a switch.

Also, my buddy said to possibly have the lights bouncing off something behind the camera as they may be too directional.


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## Espike (Jun 13, 2012)

Without having tried this myself, I couldn't provide any more insight as to what would be the best way to do it. I just know that light painting is one way of doing it.


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## kundalini (Jun 13, 2012)

A master on light painting.  Definitely worth a look for inspiration.   *American Pride And Passion - The Photography of Eric Curry*


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## tirediron (Jun 13, 2012)

Have you considered renting or trying to borrow some strobes or speedlights?  Those halogen construction lights _appear_ bright, but from your description, I'm not sure that they're going to do the job (If you're not already familiar with it, search the term "inverse square law").  Light painting is definitely a good way to go, and I've never used those lights to do it, but my guess is that their beams are likely not focused enough to do a really good job.  What might work well is one of those cheapy (<$20) bazillion candle-power battery-powered spotlights that you get at auto-parts stores.  

Either way, be sure to post the results so we can check it out!  Good luck!


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## PNWSGM (Jun 14, 2012)

tirediron said:


> Have you considered renting or trying to borrow some strobes or speedlights?  Those halogen construction lights _appear_ bright, but from your description, I'm not sure that they're going to do the job (If you're not already familiar with it, search the term "inverse square law").  Light painting is definitely a good way to go, and I've never used those lights to do it, but my guess is that their beams are likely not focused enough to do a really good job.  What might work well is one of those cheapy (<$20) bazillion candle-power battery-powered spotlights that you get at auto-parts stores.
> 
> Either way, be sure to post the results so we can check it out!  Good luck!



I have considered it.. however I don't know if it would be worth the money to rent two, plus they wouldn't be here in time for the shoot. The spot light idea is a very good idea though. Might have to try that as well, use an LED one so I could get a more White light.

I shall post results either way, even if they turn out ****ty and I don't use them.


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## KmH (Jun 14, 2012)

Don't forget the white balance.


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## myko5 (Jun 14, 2012)

kundalini said:
			
		

> A master on light painting.  Definitely worth a look for inspiration.   American Pride And Passion - The Photography of Eric Curry



Thats very interesting. Thanks for sharing.


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## PNWSGM (Jun 15, 2012)

Just going to say before I post them, it was successful. At least I believe so in my eyes. Will have them up soon (unedited)


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## Espike (Jun 15, 2012)

Awesome, I can't wait to see how it went.


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## PNWSGM (Jun 15, 2012)

Alrighty so here they are. I used two separate construction light setups, consisting of 2 bulbs each, so a total of 4 bulbs. One of the bulbs on the left light setup has something wrong with it so I didn't use it, so really only 3 bulbs were used in these images. All of the images, with the exception of the one showing the setup, were shot with a Nikon 50mm 1.8. I did sharpen them up a little bit even though I said I wouldn't touch them (and cropped the setup one) otherwise they are completely untouched. The sun had set but obviously it was still a little light out when I took these images. With the white balance being at 3000K there is some blueness where the lights weren't focused on, something that wouldn't be there if it was completely dark out (obviously).

The plate on the last few is a little blown out, however I think using a little bit of recovery in PS would take care of that. I also could have moved the light back a little bit. Also, I think the top portion of the car could use a little more light (in those specific photos) which could've been accomplished if I had something to stand the lights on and could aim them down onto the car more.

*Please critique these. First time doing this type of photography so I don't know what the "norm" is.*

1. Shot handheld at ISO 400, F/1.8 and 1/125.






2. Shot using a tripod at ISO 200, F/1.8 and 1/15.





3. Shot using a tripod at ISO 200, F/3.5 and 1/4.





4. Shot using a tripod at ISO 200, F/1.8 and 1/8. On this shot I only used one of the light setups to the right of camera (literally JUST out of frame)





5. Shot using a tripod at ISO 200, F/1.8 and 1/8. Here I obviously incorporated the 2nd light setup, again just out of frame. A very noticeable difference I think.





6. Shot using a tripod at ISO 200, F/1.8 and 1/10.


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## BXPhoto (Jun 19, 2012)

Next time use strobes with modifiers or bouncing the lights. Here are some examples

3 Bare AB B1600's bounced off the ground



Team Hybrid Magazine EVO Shoot -Edited by BX | PHOTO, on Flickr

2 YN-560's bounced



Lance Calitri's IS-F  by BX | PHOTO, on Flickr

2 b800's bounced 



gs400 by BX | PHOTO, on Flickr

3 b1600's bare at truck



Ross's Titan by BX | PHOTO, on Flickr

Setup shot of 2 b800's bouncing



BTS by BX | PHOTO, on Flickr

Result of 2 lights



Lance's IS-F by BX | PHOTO, on Flickr

Tons more in my flickr if you search, Im sure the exif data will help you with your settings. I also always provide my strobist info for strobist shooters.


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## Village Idiot (Jun 20, 2012)

I love how firing 3 bare strobes at a vehicle make absolutely no sense what so ever but people still do it and think they're the hot shizzle.


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## PNWSGM (Jun 20, 2012)

Obviously people didn't read the thread either, if they did they would notice I don't have $900+ to drop on 3 lights. Plus, those lights put out less power then the lights I was using. 

The white on the Lexus also looks blown out to me... it could just be me though.


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## BXPhoto (Jun 20, 2012)

Just you, but Ill go ahead and ask the editor of PAS magazine if it is blown out since they printed it. Rentals are much cheaper than you think. Friends are event better. Also Halogen 3000 watt lamps aren't as powerful as 640+ WS strobe. Also I have a bunch of friends in the Seattle area who are in the drift/automotive/hellaflush scene and are video/photographers. If you'd like I can introduce you to them and maybe you can get into their gear circle. Also check out car forums like Wrongfitmentcrew.com and their photography sections for automotive lighting tips.

Here are some basic lighting comparisons to help you out.

1000watt tungsten - 1/30 second @ f/2.4
1000 ws Speedotron 102 Flash head w/7 reflector - 1/30 second @f/16

That is a huge difference in light output. WS is different from Lumens rating. And then we get into light efficacy which differs mfg to mfg of halogen bulbs and by halogen bulb types.


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## PNWSGM (Jun 20, 2012)

BXPhoto said:


> Just you, but Ill go ahead and ask the editor of PAS magazine if it is blown out since they printed it. Rentals are much cheaper than you think. Friends are event better. Also Halogen 3000 watt lamps aren't as powerful as 640+ WS strobe. Also I have a bunch of friends in the Seattle area who are in the drift/automotive/hellaflush scene and are video/photographers. If you'd like I can introduce you to them and maybe you can get into their gear circle. Also check out car forums like Wrongfitmentcrew.com and their photography sections for automotive lighting tips.
> 
> Here are some basic lighting comparisons to help you out.
> 
> ...



I didn't mean to come off as a dick if that's how you portrayed it. However I don't see any photos in this post for comparison? 

Which (video)photographers are you referring to? I am sure I have met and/or talked with them before. Loren? Johnathon Black?


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## BXPhoto (Jun 20, 2012)

Nah it's cool... You know how artists get about work. Also you don't need photo examples to realize the difference there. Have you ever metered for light? If you read the meter readings it's a clear example of just how many F stops more power the strobe is in comparison to the tungsten bulb. LOL I am replying at a stop light so I'll add more to this later or when I get to another stop light.... But real quick by looking at your settings your lights were way under powered. See if you can borrow a speed light or two from a friend and compare it.


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## BXPhoto (Jun 20, 2012)

Also sb28's etc are like 30-40 bucks used on Craigslist


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## PNWSGM (Jun 20, 2012)

I can't seem to find anything around me unfortunately. All I have found is this:

Monolight Studio strobe


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## BXPhoto (Jun 20, 2012)

eBay yn-560's are great bang for the buck and also have an optical trigger built in so you can use your pop up flash to trigger them.


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## Village Idiot (Jun 20, 2012)

If you're shooting at night, you can use speedlights if you wanted. But you can have a 150w/s Adorama Flashpoint for about $100, IIRC. 2-3 of those and a battery would get you started for about $500.

The hard part is actually learning how to use light to make the car shots interesting.


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## PNWSGM (Jun 20, 2012)

Village Idiot said:


> If you're shooting at night, you can use speedlights if you wanted. But you can have a 150w/s Adorama Flashpoint for about $100, IIRC. 2-3 of those and a battery would get you started for about $500.
> 
> The hard part is actually learning how to use light to make the car shots interesting.



Are you talking about these?
Flashpoint II FP320M 150 Watt AC/DC Monolight Strobe FP320M


Also, what is different between that model and this one
Flashpoint BF160 Budget Studio Monolight Flash 160 Watt BF160

It seems like the 1st one would disperse the light much different from the 2nd one, other than that any difference?


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## BXPhoto (Jun 20, 2012)

Village Idiot said:
			
		

> If you're shooting at night, you can use speedlights if you wanted. But you can have a 150w/s Adorama Flashpoint for about $100, IIRC. 2-3 of those and a battery would get you started for about $500.
> 
> The hard part is actually learning how to use light to make the car shots interesting.



True true


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## Village Idiot (Jun 21, 2012)

PNWSGM said:


> Village Idiot said:
> 
> 
> > If you're shooting at night, you can use speedlights if you wanted. But you can have a 150w/s Adorama Flashpoint for about $100, IIRC. 2-3 of those and a battery would get you started for about $500.
> ...



TPF links don't work for me. The 320M will be a better light though. The features it has is worth the extra you'll be paying for it. I don't know if their budget light has a crappy mount, non-user replaceable flash tube or something else along those likes that make it a no go.


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