# New member / First camera



## jpticar (Sep 8, 2009)

Hey everyone.  I'm new here and pretty new to photography.  I'd like to leave the point and shoots behind and buy my first dslr.  I've been doing a lot of research and drawn towards to Nikon D90.  I realize that this is not really a camera for such a newb, but I'd rather buy out of my league and force myself to learn (may sound dumb to some lol).  My main question here is what do you guys think about the D90 and what do you think of this deal?  The item is located in park slope, brooklyn and I am in NYC so I can easily go pick it up.

Nikon D90 DIGITAL SLR CAMERA +2 LENSES 4GB D 90 ALL NEW - eBay (item 230367910513 end time Sep-14-09 20:34:16 PDT)


----------



## jpticar (Sep 9, 2009)

Anyone? Did I post in the wrong section?


----------



## bigtwinky (Sep 9, 2009)

The D90 is a great camera.

Check the packages / deals / individual items at other stores and add up the price and see if its a good deal.

I don't mind buying cheaper things on ebay, but I prefer to buy the actual gear from a local shop, where I know I can get some after purchase service.

I am unable to access ebay from work, but the 2 lenses I assume are a kit 18-55 and a telephoto 50-200 range?  Thats good to start with, but you will be upgrading soon.


----------



## bigtwinky (Sep 9, 2009)

jpticar said:


> Anyone? Did I post in the wrong section?


 
Not sure about you, but many people sleep and do other things between 10pm and 7am, so that might be your lack of responses.


----------



## boogschd (Sep 9, 2009)

nothing wrong with a d90 for a first DSLR IMO

but idk .. $999 ?

not sure with the price if its good or what.

/leaves it to teh more knowledgeable pplz


----------



## boogschd (Sep 9, 2009)

bigtwinky said:


> I am unable to access ebay from work, but the 2 lenses I assume are a kit 18-55 and a telephoto 50-200 range?  Thats good to start with, but you will be upgrading soon.



it comes with a 28-80 and apparently .. a telephoto lens :/















> *       Description:      *
> 
> Nikon's AF-S DX Nikkor 18-105mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR lens is a welcome addition to the Nikon DX-format DSLR systems, and an ideal counterpart to the D90 DSLR. This versatile optic offers much of the benefits of the enormously-popular 18-200mm VR lens but in a lighter, smaller body that takes a smaller filter as well.
> 
> The AF-S Silent Wave Motor in the 18-105mm VR yields speedy, silent, on-the-money AF performance with fulltime manual focus override. In particular, the AF-S motor keeps up with skittish, erratic subjects that overwhelm normal camera-driven-motor AF systems. You'll get more 'keeper' images of those fast-moving animals, athletes, children, vehicles and the like.













> *       Description:      *
> 
> This telephoto fits right over your camera's existing lens system, a telephoto converter affects the zoom range of your camera's lens.
> *      Key Features:     *
> ...


----------



## bigtwinky (Sep 9, 2009)

So its not actually 2 lenses, but 1 lens + a converter?  

The description of the 28-80 you posted is for the 18-105, which is a nice lens, but its not a 28-80

As for the rest of the "pro" kit, most of it is probably not pro quality stuff, so don't be fooled.

The SD card is probably a low grade card that is pretty slow.  Good to shoot regular things, but will be slow to do rapid shooting.
The filter will probably be a cheap filter that will degrade your image quality
Not sure how sturdy that tripod is, but it might be ok to start with.  You'll want to upgrade that bag too probably.

Its an entry level kit.  Stuff to get you started if you have nothing.

BH photo video sells the D90, body only, for $890.00.  So the rest of the stuff is costing you $110.  
The lens is know as a cheap lens that gives ok quality.  I read that there are many versions of this lens, so I'm not sure which version is being supplied.

I'm more prone to save money and buy quality stuff.  Not only does it have a better resale value, but I won't be always thinking "would that shot of been nicer if I had x lens?"


----------



## boogschd (Sep 9, 2009)

i copy-pasted what the seller posted :/

looks a bit dodgy to me 

idk

i suggest you just go to a store rather than buy from eBay?


----------



## bigtwinky (Sep 9, 2009)

If the seller posted info on a different lens and is calling his telephoto converter an actual lens, yeah, I'd be skeptical too


----------



## robertwsimpson (Sep 9, 2009)

you'll be happy with that kit for a while, but if you progress like I did, you'll quickly get frustrated.  

it's a good start though... you'll probably hate the telephoto thing when you start getting serious about it, but for learning, it could be fun.  the kit is a nice way to pick up cheap versions of everything you need until you can figure out what exactly you want to spend the real money on.


----------



## Overread (Sep 9, 2009)

Unlike Robert I would say stear away from the cheap Ebay deals like that. Especially when they are listing one lens (28-80mm) and then quoting lens details straight from the kit lens sold with the D90 (18-105mm VR) - that shows they don't have a clue what they are selling and thus I would not trust that vendor at all with my money.

Secondly deals like that always look like they are giving you a lot, but often many of the lenses are infact teleconverters or lens adaptors made by 3rdparty groups - they are cheap and poor in quality - and most times your not going to get good results out of them - heck even with a pro grade canon zoom lens and a pro grade 2* teleconverter results are generally not that impressive on entry level camera bodies - cheaper line gear and your looking at a lot of image degradation (an equally priced point and shoot could probably do as well if not better).


So stear away from them and stick to either a simple kit with good known brands in the deal (eg SanDisk memory cards) or just hit Amazon/B&H/Adorama and get a camera off them.


----------



## bigtwinky (Sep 9, 2009)

...or go support your local camera shop and buy from them... build a working relationship is always a good thing


----------



## robertwsimpson (Sep 9, 2009)

oo good catch on the lens thing.  I checked adorama, and you can't touch a used D90 body and starter lens for 999.  I do agree though, check with the seller about the lens.  if the lens is junk, don't buy.  if it is a nikon lens, I say go for it.


----------



## robertwsimpson (Sep 9, 2009)

bigtwinky said:


> ...or go support your local camera shop and buy from them... build a working relationship is always a good thing



I've been looking for a local camera shop here for months.  They've all closed down.


----------



## jpticar (Sep 9, 2009)

Thanks for the input guys.  I've already contacted the seller asking for make/model and whether the lens has autofocus/anti-vibe; just waiting for a response.  I probably will go check out B&H in the city.  If I bought body only, what is a good lens that you guys would recommend?


----------



## robertwsimpson (Sep 9, 2009)

what kind of pictures do you want to take?


----------



## bigtwinky (Sep 9, 2009)

Depends on what you want to shoot.

Portraits / People = that is usually in the 50mm - 80mm range
Landscapes / Cityscapes = usually in the wide end around <30mm
Sports / wildlife = you are looking at 300mm and more

If you are unsure, then getting a 17-50 and a 70-200 might be a good start.
It all depends on your budget.  Usually, the more you pay, the better quality (both build and image) you get.  But there are compromises you can make, depending on what you want


----------



## jpticar (Sep 9, 2009)

I know for a fact I will be shooting a ton of building, landscapes, and cityscapes without a doubt.  People will probably pull up in second, and I may dabble with sports/wildlife, but not enough to justify any major purchases.


----------



## itznfb (Sep 9, 2009)

What's your budget?
You could do something like get a D5000 or D3000 and get a Sigma 10-20mm and Sigma 18-50mm.


----------



## robertwsimpson (Sep 9, 2009)

lol so pretty much everything.

like bigtwinky said, a 17-50 and a 70-200 will be enough for you to get "decent" pictures of all the stuff you're talking about.  once you figure out exactly what you want to do, you can start getting specialty lenses for it. 

take me for example... I started with the 18-55 kit lens from canon, then I decided that I wanted to give wildlife a go, so I got my 55-250.  then I decided I wanted to have a low light/portrait lens, so I got my 50 f1.8.  I think the 18-55 zoom range is a great place to start.  the lens is cheap, and while it's not fantastic at anything, it's pretty good at everything.  it's a great lens to learn about exposure and composition on.

just my 2 cents.


----------



## jpticar (Sep 9, 2009)

I was hoping to keep my budget right around 1000, but not sure how possible that is lol.  What are some of the common, "less harshly" priced 17-50 and 17-200 lenses out there?  Sorry for all the questions guys lol


----------



## robertwsimpson (Sep 9, 2009)

jpticar said:


> I was hoping to keep my budget right around 1000, but not sure how possible that is lol.  What are some of the common, "less harshly" priced 17-50 and 17-200 lenses out there?  Sorry for all the questions guys lol



25448 Nikon D90 12.3 Megapixel Digital SLR Camera Kit with AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-105mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR Lens


----------



## jpticar (Sep 9, 2009)

I actually saw that and was thinking that could be a good package for me to start with.  I saw this as well Nikon | D5000 Digital SLR Camera Kit with 18-55mm & | 9700.  How do you feel about the D5000?


----------



## robertwsimpson (Sep 9, 2009)

Nikon D90, 12.3 Megapixel, Digital SLR Camera w/ Nikon 18-55mm AF-S DX ED II & 55-200mm f/4.0-5.6 AF-S DX Lens Kit|Need4Digital

here is the D90 with those two lenses for the same price.

I don't know anything about nikons.


----------



## robertwsimpson (Sep 9, 2009)

actually, it looks like they might not have the VR feature.


----------



## itznfb (Sep 9, 2009)

You're over $1000 with just the D90 and 1 kit lens. You'd be better off getting a D5000 kit like the one posted earlier Nikon | D5000 Digital SLR Camera Kit with 18-55mm & | 9700


----------



## robertwsimpson (Sep 9, 2009)

itznfb said:


> You're over $1000 with just the D90 and 1 kit lens. You'd be better off getting a D5000 kit like the one posted earlier Nikon | D5000 Digital SLR Camera Kit with 18-55mm & | 9700



I beg to differ.


----------



## itznfb (Sep 9, 2009)

robertwsimpson said:


> itznfb said:
> 
> 
> > You're over $1000 with just the D90 and 1 kit lens. You'd be better off getting a D5000 kit like the one posted earlier Nikon | D5000 Digital SLR Camera Kit with 18-55mm & | 9700
> ...



I don't buy from stores that sell under 20 different storefronts, have less than a 9 at reseller ratings and refuse to participate in resellerratings membership.


----------



## robertwsimpson (Sep 9, 2009)

how come?  it's a good deal.


----------



## PhotoXopher (Sep 9, 2009)

Not necessarily, the kit you link to comes with an 18-55 lens that isn't even the new VR version. The standard 18-55 can be had for about $100.

You can get a Nikon D90 (body only) for $890 on B&H, a very reputable authorized dealer.

That said, the D90 is an awesome camera - I love mine and definitely don't regret the purchase.


----------



## robertwsimpson (Sep 9, 2009)

so do that then!  I was just looking around and sharing what I found.


----------



## itznfb (Sep 9, 2009)

robertwsimpson said:


> how come?  it's a good deal.



Because the store you linked is a scam site.


----------



## jpticar (Sep 9, 2009)

If i go with the D90, which id love to do, I think i will get just the body at B&H and then try to find a wide range lens that is decent to start with.  I'd rather get a great camera and slowly advance into better lenses.


----------



## PhotoXopher (Sep 9, 2009)

If you want a really nice 'does everything great, does nothing excellent' lens, I'd highly recommend the Sigma 18-250!

Such a versatile lens that does a great job while never leaving you wishing for more (95% of the time for me anyway). For me it's been the perfect lens to have while saving money for the expensive 'good glass'.


----------



## robertwsimpson (Sep 9, 2009)

itznfb said:


> robertwsimpson said:
> 
> 
> > how come?  it's a good deal.
> ...



hm good thing I didn't buy that 50d from them


----------



## robertwsimpson (Sep 9, 2009)

jpticar said:


> If i go with the D90, which id love to do, I think i will get just the body at B&H and then try to find a wide range lens that is decent to start with.  I'd rather get a great camera and slowly advance into better lenses.



most people will tell you to do the opposite.  including me.


----------



## PhotoXopher (Sep 9, 2009)

If you have a camera already, sure... if not, why not get the most out of your first camera body so you're not wanting more right off the bat?


----------



## jpticar (Sep 9, 2009)

N0YZE said:


> If you have a camera already, sure... if not, why not get the most out of your first camera body so you're not wanting more right off the bat?



Thats how I feel.  I'd rather get a nice camera and an ok versatile lens to mess around with and see what type of shots id like to excel in and then upgrade my lenses from there.  Makes sense to me atleast lol


----------



## jpticar (Sep 9, 2009)

N0YZE said:


> If you want a really nice 'does everything great, does nothing excellent' lens, I'd highly recommend the Sigma 18-250!
> 
> Such a versatile lens that does a great job while never leaving you wishing for more (95% of the time for me anyway). For me it's been the perfect lens to have while saving money for the expensive 'good glass'.



Thats exactly what I would like to start with I think.  Thanks, ill take a look at that lens.


----------



## PhotoXopher (Sep 9, 2009)

If you want sample photos let me know... I've had 2 of the Nikon version as well (18-200) and prefer the Sigma.

The other nice thing about the D90 is the low light performance ROCKS, so a little hit on the lens speed isn't as big of a deal since you can bump up the ISO and still have very acceptable photos.


----------



## jpticar (Sep 9, 2009)

Yea that'd be cool if you could pm me some pics.  I just hope I can afford that lens.  Throws me a little over budget, but we'll see.


----------



## PhotoXopher (Sep 9, 2009)

You can always start off with a 50mm f/1.8D which can be found for $100-$140 easily and is almost a staple for any lens arsenal. It's fast glass, inexpensive and provides consistent great results.

Fun to shoot/learn with as well.


----------



## robertwsimpson (Sep 9, 2009)

I love my 50mm 1.8, but I'd be upset if it were my only lens.  it makes me take a walk all the time to frame the picture right.  it's nice to be able to zoom a little bit.


----------



## jpticar (Sep 9, 2009)

N0YZE said:


> You can always start off with a 50mm f/1.8D which can be found for $100-$140 easily and is almost a staple for any lens arsenal. It's fast glass, inexpensive and provides consistent great results.
> 
> Fun to shoot/learn with as well.



I will look into this lens as well.  The pics look great btw, thanks!


----------



## jpticar (Sep 9, 2009)

Damn, lens choice seems even tougher than camera choice!


----------



## PhotoXopher (Sep 9, 2009)

Welcome aboard, the camera is the inexpensive part 

The good news is, it's one of the few hobbies I've had that actually seems to hold it's value very well (knock on wood). I've managed to purchase/sell a fair amount of gear and not be too bad off in the end.


----------



## itznfb (Sep 9, 2009)

jpticar said:


> Damn, lens choice seems even tougher than camera choice!



You have no idea.


----------



## jpticar (Sep 9, 2009)

N0YZE said:


> Welcome aboard, the camera is the inexpensive part
> 
> The good news is, it's one of the few hobbies I've had that actually seems to hold it's value very well (knock on wood). I've managed to purchase/sell a fair amount of gear and not be too bad off in the end.



It also seems like a great hobby that can last for a lifetime.  I'm really looking forward to it!


----------



## PhotoXopher (Sep 9, 2009)

Most definitely... for me right now it's capturing my 3 kids growing up and all the fun things they get into - it was my reasoning/justification to get a DSLR to begin with. The cool thing is that the sky isn't even the limit...


----------



## jpticar (Sep 10, 2009)

Just got a response that the 28-80 lens that comes in the package from the first page has autofocus and antivibe.  They didn't send the make/model, so I asked again.


----------



## robertwsimpson (Sep 10, 2009)

if they didn't send the make and model, I'm guessing it's not a reputable brand...


----------



## jpticar (Sep 10, 2009)

the company replied back with a phone number to call, but I also ebay messaged a person who bought that package in the past.  The person is the one that answered so there is still hope yet lol


----------



## robertwsimpson (Sep 10, 2009)

DANGER WILL ROBINSON


----------



## jpticar (Sep 14, 2009)

Too good to be true? SkyPointDigital.com


----------



## jpticar (Sep 14, 2009)

Anyone ever deal with them in the past?


----------



## PhotoXopher (Sep 14, 2009)

Google is your friend, if something looks too good to be true - it probably is.
http://tinyurl.com/nv7qxw

thoughts-of-dave: Beware: SkyPointDigital is a Bait and Switch Website!


----------



## jpticar (Sep 14, 2009)

hahaha yea seemed way too good to be true


----------



## PhotoXopher (Sep 14, 2009)

Stick with online sources such as B&H, Adorama and Beach Camera if you can't find a good deal locally. All of them sell for as close to the lowest price allowed by Nikon as possible.

In other words, if you find a site selling for less - it's chances of being a scam or non-reputable dealer skyrocket.


----------



## jpticar (Sep 14, 2009)

yea i'll probably just stop by B&H in the city.  Everything else online isn't much cheaper and it's so much nicer being able to just walk in and buy it in a store.


----------



## PhotoXopher (Sep 14, 2009)

There's something to be said for instant gratification


----------



## jpticar (Sep 17, 2009)

Soooooooo.....I'm hoping to go to B&H tomorrow morning and pick up a camera, but I am so confused as to which to buy.  It's basically between the D5000 and D90.  I know what they both have to offer but I just can't decide which I should get.  This will be my first DSLR camera.  

The D5000 seems like a very good camera for what you are paying.  The biggest drawback that I've read about on many review sites is the fact that it lacks an internal AF motor.  Here is a website that compares D90, D5000, and Rebel T1i.  Nikon D5000 Compared to D90 and Canon Rebel T1i / EOS 500D  About halfway down the page they do a spec comparison.  Below are a few differences I noticed between the D90 and D5000.

D5000 more scene modes - Will these be beneficial for me since I am just starting out?  I would really like to learn manual settings so I can have more freedom with the camera.

D90 more custom functions - I feel like I wont understand most of these at first but I fell like I would miss them once I leanr about them.

D90 depth of field preview

D90 Top info panel 

D90 Dual dials to change settings

I've been told by a friend of a friend who owns a D90 that I would just be wasting my money and don't need something advanced.  He said I should get a D60.  I think that I would definitely get the D5000 over the D60.  

The main reason I am still hung up on the D90 is because I feel like it is more of a camera I can grow with.  After reading reviews, I felt that the D5000 was more of a camera for a person who just wants to turn it on and be able to shoot good pictures without much effort.  I would rather learn the ins and outs and create good shots myself.  

I guess what I'm saying is that I would rather under-use the camera in the beginning so I can always try new things and have new options available to me as I learn them, rather than buy a camera that is more suited to a beginner and feel like it cant keep up with what I want as I become more knowledgeable about photography.

Am I completely wrong here? Feel free to bash me lol.  Also feel free to post some more important differences between the two cameras from that link above or your general knowledge.  Sorry for the long post and thanks for the help!


----------



## robertwsimpson (Sep 17, 2009)

if you're planning on shooting in manual mode (which is all I use) I'd go for whichever camera has the most non-menu based controls... it's much easier to turn a nob while looking through the viewfinder than to pull the camera off your face and change settings.  That's what is frustrating me about my camera at the moment anyway.


----------



## jpticar (Sep 17, 2009)

Thats what I'm thinking.  I'm sure I wont be great in manual mode to begin with, but I dont want to get caught up in only using preset scenes.


----------



## robertwsimpson (Sep 17, 2009)

I say force yourself to learn manual by using only manual.  That's what I did.  it will make you learn the relationship between aperture, ISO, and shutter speed.  You'll be frustrated at first, but you'll figure it out quickly if you're anything like me.  Baptism by fire!


----------



## jpticar (Sep 17, 2009)

I agree.  Taking crap pictures on manual in the beginning will motivate me to learn.  I think I'm pretty set on the D90.  Unfortunately its alittle over the budget I wanted, but screw it.  Now I just gotta choose if I want to go body only and find a lens or get a package with a good walk around lens.


----------



## robertwsimpson (Sep 17, 2009)

I'm sure I will get hated upon for this, but I say learn on the kit lens.  it is good enough for you to learn the relationship between ISO, fstop, and shutter speed.  once you've become frustrated with your hardware and you've progressed past the point where the weakness in the system is your skill (which will take a while) that's when you go for a better lens.  by then, you'll have some cash in the bank too.


----------



## robertwsimpson (Sep 17, 2009)

plus you'll figure out what you like taking pictures of the most.  if you like doing portraits, a 55-250mm is not going to be the ideal lens for you.


----------



## jpticar (Sep 17, 2009)

B&H has *Nikon* D90 SLR Digital Camera Kit with Nikon 18-105mm VR Lens for $1140 and *Nikon* D90 SLR Digital Camera Kit with Nikon 55-200mm VR Lens for $1115.  My priority shots will most likely be cityscapes and architectural since I will be shooting in NYC basically every weekend.  I'm thinking the 18-105mm?


----------



## PhotoXopher (Sep 17, 2009)

If you go with a kit, the 18-105 VR is a nice (and common) option with the D90. It'll give you a nice range and good quality for a fair price.

If you want to go body only and get what I consider the ultimate walk around lens, I'd recommend the Sigma 18-250 HSM OS.

Also, I'd reconsider the manual mode right away... you might get TOO frustrated.

What I'd recommend is shooting in programmed auto for a day, aperture priority for a day or two, then shutter priority for a day or two, then manual for a few days - all the while paying attention to the changes.

Use Auto ISO at first too, you can add that to the mix once you really understand what's going on with shutter speed and aperture.

Manual mode isn't always the best way to shoot, even after you learn the basics... If all you are doing is zeroing in the exposure you can save time by just using Aperture or Shutter priority mode because that's all it's doing anyway.


----------



## jpticar (Sep 17, 2009)

Are the kit lenses really terrible?


----------



## jpticar (Sep 17, 2009)

N0YZE said:


> If you go with a kit, the 18-105 VR is a nice (and common) option with the D90. It'll give you a nice range and good quality for a fair price.
> 
> If you want to go body only and get what I consider the ultimate walk around lens, I'd recommend the Sigma 18-250 HSM OS.



I'd love to do that, just not right off the bat.  My wallets gonna take a hit as it is lol.  For a good amount of time my pictures are going to look like ass while I learn manual mode.  No lens will help me until I know what I'm doing lol.  Thanks for the info though.  I will definitely look into a lens like this in the future.


----------



## robertwsimpson (Sep 17, 2009)

18-105 with VR sounds pretty nice, actually.  it will be a good range... 18mm for wide angle city shots, and 105mm if you see something down the road that you want to capture close up.


----------



## PhotoXopher (Sep 17, 2009)

Not all kit lenses are junk, the Nikon kit lenses are usually pretty decent (18-55, 18-55 VR, 18-105 VR, 18-200 VR for example).

When you can, pick up a 50mm f/1.8 as well - should be able to find one used for around $100 or new for around $140.


----------



## robertwsimpson (Sep 17, 2009)

I LURVEEE my 50 1.8


----------



## jpticar (Sep 17, 2009)

robertwsimpson said:


> 18-105 with VR sounds pretty nice, actually.  it will be a good range... 18mm for wide angle city shots, and 105mm if you see something down the road that you want to capture close up.



Exactly what I was thinking.  Should be a good first lens for what I'm looking for.


----------



## jpticar (Sep 17, 2009)

N0YZE said:


> Not all kit lenses are junk, the Nikon kit lenses are usually pretty decent (18-55, 18-55 VR, 18-105 VR, 18-200 VR for example).
> 
> When you can, pick up a 50mm f/1.8 as well - should be able to find one used for around $100 or new for around $140.



Thanks, I will keep in mind.  This will be a good thread for me to refer too once I get more adapted to the camera and start looking for more lenses.


----------



## jpticar (Sep 17, 2009)

I just hope the damn tax and warranties and things like that don't hike the price up lol


----------



## jpticar (Sep 21, 2009)

Soooooo...I went with the D90 and it is freaking amazing!  I'm hooked.


----------



## robertwsimpson (Sep 21, 2009)

put up pictures!


----------



## nipsip (Sep 22, 2009)

Suggestion:

The 6MP Nikon d50 was the low light champ prior to the d300. All Nikon AF lenses work with the d50. You can get a body for ~$250 and the 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5 sharp as a tack lens for ~$150. 

If you like photography, the d50 is an excellent back up.


----------



## robdavis305 (Sep 22, 2009)

Ive got a D90 and love it. I got mine at best buy with an 18-105mm and paid 1100.00 for mine. Id be careful with the one your looking at.


----------

