# Ideas getting busier, I need help :(



## shellie (Sep 16, 2011)

I have a small studio space and make myself available for on location shoots.  I have done newspaper ads, have an active facebook page, constantly posting specials, left flyers all over town and near by towns along with stacks of business cards, offer referrals to existing customers.  I do not have the luxury of going to the bank to get a business loan to do all the advertising so I'm extremely limited on funds.  Every one of my clients so far have raved about my work, no unhappy customers yet (knock on wood). I also get told how "cheap" I am in comparison.  I live in a fairly small town, only around 20k residents.  I charge a $50 session fee, which includes an hour of shooting time.  I don't charge extra for clothing changes or any of that stuff.  I give a $25 credit on the first order, another incentive to get more clients.  I still make about $40-45 because even tho they save $25 on an order it doesn't cost me that much to print but from the customers point of view they are getting a half price session fee.  I don't offer a CD at this time because I depend on the earnings from selling prints.  My prints are very affordable tho. A couple examples: 8x10-$10, 11x14-$20 and so on.  I know this is a lot to read but I will be so grateful to any suggestions you may have.  There are so many "photographers" out there now because it seems like everyone who picks up a camera automatically becomes a professional photographer.  Please help me!! My plan was to be a photographer as my sole source of income.  I am a single mom so I'm going at this alone, so to speak.  I am getting pretty nervous if maybe this is a crazy idea that isn't goin to work.  I have been open since March '11.  I know that isn't long.  I've made close to $1000 a month for April, May, June, July and August. But so far this month I haven't done a single shoot!!  PLEASE HELP ME 

lathamphotos.com is my website if anyone would like to see my work 
facebook.com/lathamphotos if you want to add me to your facebook!  

And again, thanks so so much!!


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## Bitter Jeweler (Sep 16, 2011)

$1000 a month? After expenses like liability insurance, taxes, etc?


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## shellie (Sep 16, 2011)

No just $1000.  Right now i am only paying for rent and utilities. Rent alone is $450.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Sep 16, 2011)

Oh, you are renting a studio, and you don't have liability insurance?

You need to drastically raise your prices, and get yourself out of the Facebook Photographer bracket. 

At your current rates you will never turn much profit, or you will have to work your ass off to do so, and that is a bad place to be.


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## shellie (Sep 16, 2011)

It's a small area and there are so I'm not sure raising my prices this early in the game would help me out.  I have the facebook page, what did you mean about the photographer bracket? I get so discouraged when I look at another local when seems super busy and then I look at thier work and I'm shocked that it actually passes for photography.  I will never criticize some one to pretend I am awesome, so I don't want to sound like I'm just cutting some one down.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Sep 16, 2011)

Facebook Photographer = buy a camera, make a logo, call it a business and charge $25 sitting fee, and offer $10 prints.

You are working in a bracket flooded with competition for the bottom dollar. 

Up your quality, up your prices. Make money.

Start posting images here for critique. Absorb and think about the critiques you receive whether you agree or not.

 Start learning to use supplemental lighting. That right there will put you above half of your competition.


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## Overread (Sep 16, 2011)

Consider this - if you work at building up your market now based on low prices and then decide to increase your prices to represent a more healthy business and to cover your expenses (which which insurance and the like will likely increase) and provide a profit; then you'll hit a problem.

The problem will be that all the people you are currently networking with at the low price will be referring you based on your low prices; once you up your game and your prices to a more serious stake you'll lose all those previous clients and their referrals - in short you have to start all over again with building up your customer and user base. Might as well roll out a quality product with a properly budgeted costs now and get started building your proper market base; you can always use discounts and special events to reduce your charges to attract sales for a short time; but keep the prices at a sane amount. 

Furthermore as Bitter says, if you work the budget line you'll always have flooded competition and really have to work super hard to turn a low profit from the company.


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## manaheim (Sep 16, 2011)

What they said.  Totally agree.


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## KmH (Sep 17, 2011)

In all honesty, sustaining a retail photography business requires *an average sale* of about $1000. Monthly revenue needs to be at about $10,000 a month to have income of about $25,000 - $30,000 a year.

Your home page says, "Specializing in Quality & Afforability!" and affordability is not even spelled correctly. That's not a good way to make a first impression. 
Sell the quality of your work and sell YOURSELF. Quit talking about AFFORDABILITY!

Studio photography is a luxury item, and should be priced as such.

Your cost of doing business (CODB) includes a lot more than just the rent and utilities on the studio space. Running and sustaining any type of retail business requires business, marketing, and sales acumen.
About 1/3 of your total revenue should be going to just state and federal taxes.
When you proof online, they don't need to buy prints from you, because they can just steal the images off the Internet. Proof in person so you can guage the emotional attachment they have to a photo so you can upsell.
Do you have product samples ther in the studio to show clients?

Watch this YouTube video about What To Charge:


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## shellie (Sep 17, 2011)

I am fairly knowledgeable and learning every day but, what is supplemental lighting?  I have sutdio lights if that what you mean.  I am pretty certain I am in that flooded bracket you mentioned.  I bet in my area code alone there are hundreds.  Where/how do I post images for critique?  I print thru AdoramaPix right now.  I'm happy with their quality.  Thank you so much for your help!


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## shellie (Sep 17, 2011)

Right now the way I have my prints prices I earn roughly 85% of the price.  I think that if I were busier my prices would work for me, I think.  My plan was to have a gradual price increase, say once a year go up by a few dollars.  One other problem I hace run into is that most of the competition, who are largely amatures at best, will have a $25 session fee that includes a CD with 25 images on it (example).  One common thing I have noticed with all these, as Bitter perfectly called it, Facebook Photographers is they are all married and the photography is solely a hobby.  They do not depend on it as their income to support a family.  I am not trying to criticize so please don't attack me.  I am thankful for all the post.


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## shellie (Sep 17, 2011)

Thanks for catching the typo.  I just missed it.  In my area to even dream of a client, much less every client spending any where near $1000 is just a pipe dream.  Since you visited my page do you think the work is good?  I get better with every shoot because I alway learn something new.  Thanks fro taking the time to comment and I will look at the video.


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## shellie (Sep 17, 2011)

Some how I didn't see the other half of the txt on your reply.  I do online proofing but I have a logo accross the image to try and aviod the stealing, this is ok?? I do have some samples in the studio.  I have a few prints and a few other things like a matted image, metallic finish and die cut wallets.  On the wall I have exapmles of a couple babies, seniors, and a few others.  I do what I can as I can.  When I have extra money for those things I do them.  It's cheap enough to print but the you have to but the frames which can get high.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Sep 17, 2011)

shellie said:


> I am fairly knowledgeable and learning every day but, what is supplemental lighting? I have sutdio lights if that what you mean. I am pretty certain I am in that flooded bracket you mentioned. I bet in my area code alone there are hundreds. Where/how do I post images for critique? I print thru AdoramaPix right now. I'm happy with their quality. Thank you so much for your help!



Post pictures here for critique. Tons of knowledgable people here in your field.

Yeah, I thought later my comment would be confusing. Off camera flash for your outdoor shots. Lots of under exposed faces in the images on your website (outdoors).


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## shellie (Sep 17, 2011)

I have a speedlite flash and I will admit I am not good with that thing!  I tried to get help but all the did was say "this does this, this does this" I avoid indoor weddings and the like because I am afraid to screw up someones wedding pictures because I don't know how to work my flash well.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Sep 17, 2011)

Then get books, pratctice, and get good with your flash.


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## shellie (Sep 17, 2011)

I actually "went" to a photography school and my personal opinion of the school is not very high.  I think they just wanted guinea pigs for the online program they had worked hard to develop and personally I don't think photography is something you can learn in an online course.  I was already doing about 75% of what they taught me.  I didn't understand how to purposely achieve the images where your subject is in focus and the background is blurry.  I now know that it is the aperture and the "blurry" is bokeh.  And I do understand what all the dials and buttons and numbers on my camera mean and how to use them.  Thanks for your help.  Can you recommend any books or maybe online videos?


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## KmH (Sep 17, 2011)

shellie said:


> I didn't understand how to purposely achieve the images where your subject is in focus and the background is blurry. I now know that it is the aperture and the "blurry" is bokeh.


Sorry, but that is only part right, and it isn't bokeh, it's depth-of-field (DOF).

Four variables control the DOF. Lens aperture is just one of the 4. The other 3 are the lens focal length, the focus point distance from the camera, and the focal point distance to the background. 
Many professional photographers like to use a 200 mm focal length for portraits, because the magnification 200 mm provides makes the out-of-focus (OOF) background elements larger making them seem even more OOF.

Bokeh is not adjustable, in so far as its a property of the lens design that affects the circle of confusion diameter limit (CoC) a lens is capable of producing. The number and shape of the lens aperture blades contributes a lot to the COC a lens produces. Pros look for lenses that have 9, or more, aperture blades, and want those lens aperture blades to be curved with rounded edges.

Bokeh is the visual quality of the blur a lens is capable of delivering. There are 2 types of bokeh. 'Cream Cheese' bokeh is very soft and smooth. 'Hollywood' bokeh is nice round specular highlights.

Nikon's AF 85 mm f/1.4 D lens is nicknamed the "Cream Machine" because of the super smooth, creamy, small diameter limit CoC it produces. Canon's inexpensive EF 50 mm f/1.8 II has very nervous, and jittery looking bokeh considered an example of poor quality bokeh.


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## shellie (Sep 17, 2011)

I was only referring to bokeh and the mane for the blurred area of the image.


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## katerolla (Sep 17, 2011)

I'm sorry did i read this right, you don't know how to use your flash, you avoid booking wedding because of this, you don't know how aperute and lenses works, are you sure you're ready to start a business?


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## shellie (Sep 17, 2011)

Wow this thing really went the wrong direction! Yes I know what aperture is.  Yes I know how lenses work.  I am not comfortable with my flash but I can work it.  Yes, I believe you read this wrong.  I choose not to do weddings for several reasons, not because I don't know how to use my flash.  The reason I started this thread was to ask for suggestions on how to generate more business.


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## raffile (Sep 17, 2011)

This is a really weird business concept but like Overread said. Lower prices do not always mean more people will come to you. In fact in one of my websites where I sell bracelets and necklaces (nothing to do with photography but bare with me). I was getting about 300 unique visitors a day, I had the lowest prices compared to competitors, and my site was built more professionally I believe. But my sales were SOOOooooo low and I was barley making enough to keep the site up and running. So I tripled sales prices (YES TRIPLED), and did nothing more. The next day I had nearly quadrupled my conversion rate. Now the site is doing quite well.

I really think you need to up your prices. People who do not pay as much for something a.k.a A CHEAP person, will likely be someone who complains the most (in my experience). Also someone who pays a lot for something will think you do much more quality work (in my experience and this has been tested). I also suggest Building a brand name and a unique selling point. All successful businesses have built a successful brands. Example: Apple computers - reliable, barley get any viruses, quality computers.

A "Unique Selling Point" is what sets you aside from someone else. So for you - you don't charge extra for clothing changes. Ok, maybe other photographers do, maybe others do not. But you need to break that down into things that will connect to your customers emotionally. Who cares that you do not charge extra for clothing changes... SO WHAT! - Thats what your customer is thinking... So make a list of your company features and turn them all into benefits! What is it going to do for your customer because, honestly, they don't care about your company, PEOPLE ARE SELFISH.

So example:

Your Company Feature -We don't charge extra for clothing or setting changes
Benefit - You will save money
So what? - You will be able to afford more pictures
So what? - You will be able to enjoy more photos with your family when looking back at that day
So what? - You will be able to spend more time and enjoy laughs with your family when looking back on that day because you were able to take more photos
errrrr.... Ok - we will get our photos from you.

And you just found your "Unique selling point" - We don't charge for clothing or setting changes which save you money and allow you to receive a variety of photos so you can spend quality time with your family and enjoy more laughs when looking back on that day.

These are of coarse bad unique selling points and you probably would want it shorter than that but. I am just trying to help you open your mind to what you need to do. BACK TO BUILDING A BRAND NAME

Ok, im guessing your company name is latham photos - That there is just a name
Now to build your brand name you need to be known for something, and to do this will take some time. But like I was saying apple: known for reliable computers. Google: known for relevant searches.

Find something you can do better than every photographer around you, and either you are better than them at a particular task or you need to get better. So if you need to get better. Best thing to do is learn, practice fail and keep practicing and keep moving forward read books, be the best.

On your website. Your basic contact info should be available right away AT LEAST YOUR NUMBER because people are lazy. And some just want to talk to someone right away and don't want to spend much time on the computer. Everyone is in a hurry so make it available at the enter here page. Some just want a number and you should definitely give them that option.

A missed phone call can be a missed sale which could result in a loss of someone who knows a lot of people who are going to be needing photos taking soon.

Call us: at "Your number"
or enter here (you are giving them options)

Home page - lathamphotos - "We make your photo worth way more than 1000 words"
contact info readily available here too.

Hope this helps - sorry its kind of long let me know if you need any more help


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## KmH (Sep 17, 2011)

shellie said:


> I was only referring to bokeh and the mane for the blurred area of the image.


That's the point, bokeh is not the name for the blurred area of an image, and is one of the most mis-used words in photography.


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## shellie (Sep 17, 2011)

Your post was extremely helpful, thank you so much.  Thats why I got on here asking for help.  I am going to work on all the ideas everyone has given me.  I am a little nervous about price raising at this point.  I already have a handful of clients who have been returning clients and I am pretty sure I would lose them.  I will make a increase at the first of the year for sure.  Had anyone used a time restriction on ordering?  I tell people they have two weeks to order from the online gallery.  A fellow photographer said she sad to implement a fee for not ordering within that set time frame.  Has anyone used this?  I have had several who have scheduled, had thier session and then never ordered and prints.  Thanks again everyone.  

KmH, I'm sorry that I have been misusing the word, but that doens't mean that I'm not a photographer or that I'm less intellegent.  When I look it up it says it's "the amount, shape and quality of the blur" and "Bokeh is the character of whatever blur is there" I only came to this site to get help from fellow photographers with generating more business.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Sep 17, 2011)

You really should be making, at a minimum, $100 an hour. Your sitting fee and print sales  need to cover every minute of time you spend with a customer. If you are shooting on location, you need to cover gas and drive time, and set up time. You need to cover the time spent with a customer pre shoot. You need to cover processing time. You need to cover the time spent going over images after the shoot. You don't seem to be including that in your $25 sitting fee, and few bucks for prints. At some point, even though your customersvare giving you money, younarevactually paying them.

You need to calculate every expense you incur. Add up rent, insurance, utilities, gas, vehicle wear and tear, equipment acquisition, supplies, marketing, insurance, your desired salary, PROFIT, etc, and divide that by the average amount your customer spends, which will give you the number of customers you need to have per month to cover it. Also calculate the average time spent with the customer times the number of customers you need, to get an idea of how much time you will be working. Is it a pretty picture?

As far as customers that don't purchase? Well that's a loss. You have to consider that into your expenses as well. There's nothing you can do about it, other than have people prepay for package deals. Cancelations? Non refundable deposits help. The first thing you need to do is raise your prices. 

Quality product also matters, and obviously works into the equation for success. How does your product set you apart from the competition? This is the biggest problem I see with people starting businesses while THEY ARE STILL LEARNING THE BASICS of their craft. They are starting at the bottom of the barrel, and have a very long road ahead of them.  

Traditionally, before you start your own business, you work for others and learn the craft. You get paid to learn. You learn your craft, and you can learn how businesses run, and all the roses, and all the thorns that come with it. You learn how problems are solved. You learn what works. You learn what you might do differently. THEN you are ready to start a business.

You need to have enough business acumen to recognize problems and react immediately!  My business has been open two years next week. After the first exciting year, I realized I had a problem. I wasnt paying myself enough. While I was blinded by paying myself more than my last job, I was making much less per hour and working much more. I immediately started raising my prices. Within a year, I have doubled my hourly labor fee, and upped my markup on parts and supplies. I have continued to post record month, after record month, and haven't lost a single customer. Well except for two that I refuse to do work for. They were time sucks that werent worth the effort. Keep in mind my business is custom design and manufacture of jewelry, and repairs. I started my business in the middle of the recession. Precious metal prices have skyrocketed. 

I sell a luxury item that is in all manner, practically useless. Photography is a luxury, but at least it saves important moments in time. Jewelry sparkles, and is essentially a status item.

By putting my time in working for others, and learning the business, just by watching, and listening, and honing my craft, I launched my business at the top. Had I tried opening my own business right out of school, quite frankly, I would have failed. If not, I would have struggled for years. Quality wise, I could have started this 10 years ago, but I found the experience at my last job of eight years invaluable to teach me what NOT to do

.Just something to think about.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Sep 18, 2011)

Oh, and your website does not read "professional". 

I highly recommend working with a branding agent/web designer, to put the best frontnyou can on your business. A branding agent will create a cohesive look for your business, and develop everything from your logo, to your business cards, your flyers, your letterhead to your website. They will work on making sure your site is optimized for web searching and often explain how pay per click search placement advertising works, and how you can set a cap on how much you pay for that. 

This will cost between $2000 and $4000. The old adage applies...it takes money to make money. This day and age, your website is the face of your company. When you hand out business cards and flyers, nowadays one of the first things your potential customer does is visit your website. If it looks like a 13 year old put it together, you will possibly instill a feeling of risk. If it looks professionally done, with your absolute best work displayed, you will instill feelings of success, competence, and assurance.

This is something else I learned. Dont try to do everything yourself. Get help. Pay a pro to do what THEY are good at. Do you want to be learning photography, web design, graphic design, accounting, marketing, etc all at the same time? Disastrous!


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## MTVision (Sep 18, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:
			
		

> Oh, and your website does not read "professional".
> 
> !



I agree. I saw a bunch of spelling mistakes and grammatical errors on your website. That is a huge no-no. In your specials area you said to "call, txt, or e-mail". Txt isn't a word to adults. Teenagers may think it's a word but it's not. Definitely don't use any slang on your professional page. 

If you are going to continue to manage your website I would spell check everything. I make spelling and grammar mistakes but if I see them on a business page - I don't do business with that company.


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## onelove (Sep 18, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> You really should be making, at a minimum, $100 an hour. Your sitting fee and print sales need to cover every minute of time you spend with a customer. If you are shooting on location, you need to cover gas and drive time, and set up time. You need to cover the time spent with a customer pre shoot. You need to cover processing time. You need to cover the time spent going over images after the shoot. You don't seem to be including that in your $25 sitting fee, and few bucks for prints. At some point, even though your customersvare giving you money, younarevactually paying them.
> 
> You are right on the money with this.  A lifetime ago I was a pro photographer.  Someone asked me why I charged so much for something that only takes 1/250 of a second.  I told him that besides the hours in the darkroom that went with it, it was also knowing WHICH 1/250 of a second to capture.  Time is money.
> 
> ...



I am fortunate enough that my business interests not only provide a living, but also give me the opportunity to travel a lot.  I am just now starting to get back into photography again after a 35 year hiatus.  I have a whole lot of new stuff to learn.  But my cameras will be traveling with me from now on.  I do intend to make money with my work, but I still consider it as a hobby. Of course starting new businesses is already a hobby for me, so I will apply those skills as well and see if I can tie it all together into travel photography as a retirement business.  Maybe be the Anthony Bordain of the jewelry industry and document interesting gem sources around the world from a slightly different perspective.

To Bitter Jeweler and shellie...keep at it, keep learning and pay attention to the speed bumps.  Being in business for yourself is one of life's greatest adventures. It is like having a child.  At first all it does is eat money and poop out problems.  But after a while it stands on it's own and helps around the house.  In time it will provide for your future.

 Do not be afraid to make mistakes.  Most people, when faced with a business "failure" take it personally and go back to working at a job.  The true entrepreneur just steps back and says, "Hmmm, that didn't work.  I think I'll try this next."  And then they go out and try again. 

onelove


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## Tee (Sep 18, 2011)

Shellie- if you're open to more feedback, I have a few comments regarding your website. On your homepage you have a slideshow of images but no portfolio or gallery. I like to click right away to see examples rather than watch a whole slideshow. In this case I did because I wanted to offer some critique. You could catergorize your themes (babies, seniors, family, etc) to cater to the clients wants. This is only my personal opinion, but I would scratch the "text me" portion in your contact page. I imagine you're trying to reach the broadest base of clients as possible but aside from hookers, texting for first contact isn't very professional.


Facebook- your FB page is not even close to representing your best work compared to your website slideshow. If a potential client doesn't have a gallery to look at they'll click on your FB page for more examples. It looks like you have some family birthday gatherings meant for close friends to see. You need to have a selection of your best work. That doesn't mean 45 pictures per album, either. Your best work only. Let me say it again - your best work only. If you're going to link FB from your website and use it as a marketing tool, then you need to put the same effort into maintaining your page. 

Lastly, you're getting some good advice from the members above. Don't discount the comments regarding flash, bokeh, etc either. You may have been looking for business advice only, but a working knowledge of terms and artifical lighting will boost your business above your current competition. 

My $.02


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## orljustin (Sep 19, 2011)

shellie said:


> I know this is a lot to read but I will be so grateful to any  suggestions you may have.  There are so many "photographers" out there  now because it seems like everyone who picks up a camera automatically  becomes a professional photographer.  Please help me!! My plan was to be  a photographer as my sole source of income.



If you are allowed to do it, why not them?



shellie said:


> I have a speedlite flash and I will admit I am not good with that thing!  I tried to get help but all the did was say "this does this, this does this" I avoid indoor weddings and the like because I am afraid to screw up someones wedding pictures because I don't know how to work my flash well.



Sigh.  Stick to being a facebook photographer then.  Knowing how to correctly use lighting sources is vital to being a qualified photographer.


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## shellie (Sep 19, 2011)

As I've said before, Thank you so much to all who have given positive input.  I have made notes and will be addressing all of these things to better myself.  As for those who have chosen to pick out a few things and make "non-helpful" posts I hope you are never in the position to ask for help and have a group of your peers make comments of the same nature to waste your time.  I am glad that I was able to come on this forum and openly say "this is what I'm doing, this is where I need nelp" and get all this valuable information and all these wonderful suggestions.  So I'm uncomfortable with my flash, that doesn't make me an unqualified photographer.  It's just something I need to work on to get better with.  Thanks to all of you who helped me.  I hope one day I can come back and offer my knowledge to help some one who may be having trouble.


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## orljustin (Sep 20, 2011)

shellie said:


> So I'm uncomfortable with my flash, that doesn't make me an unqualified photographer.  It's just something I need to work on to get better with.



Sure it makes you unqualified.  That's what qualified means.  A qualified photographer would be prepared to get the right images using the means necessary.  Not to just be able to point the camera in the right direction in "natural light".  But you didn't address why this didn't apply to you as well:
"There are so many "photographers" out there  now because it seems like  everyone who picks up a camera automatically  becomes a professional  photographer."


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## shellie (Sep 20, 2011)

I don't need to explain myself or defend myself to anyone.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Sep 20, 2011)

You're mentioning throughout this thread your area is a weak market for photography sales. Perhaps  some analysis on neighboring communities, reaching out further, and penetrating the more lucrative markets will make you profitable?


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## shellie (Sep 20, 2011)

2WheelPhoto said:
			
		

> You're mentioning throughout this thread your area is a weak market for photography sales. Perhaps  some analysis on neighboring communities, reaching out further, and penetrating the more lucrative markets will make you profitable?



Yes. I have done some advertising in several of the neighboring towns. Every time I go out of town I carry flyers with me and post them when I stop.


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## spacefuzz (Sep 20, 2011)

Now nobody bite my head off for jumping in, but just trying to help out. 

Shellie: most people here are just trying to help, even the ones discussing flash.  They may not have offered advice in sweet manner, but its still good advice. You CAN be a professional and not use your flash, if you can carve out a market in natural light portraiture and be happy with your business.  But as you have seen, its a small market so your odds are not good. If you do learn to use your flash however, you gain market share by offering a wider variety of services and can therefore get your business in better shape. Which is basically the point others were trying to make. And all the other pricing advice definitely applies. 

Since your in a small market with existing photographers, increase your quality to above the competition and charge accordingly.  Have you done research on any high priced studio photographers in the area?


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## shellie (Sep 20, 2011)

I have looked on the website available. But some of them give limited info. I don't know how to really go about researching with out being deceitful and pretend like I'm a potential customer. In I'd say a 50 mile radius there are three other studios. I know there are hundreds of fb photogs but I don't think any of them have studios. I plan to raise my prices effective Jan 1. I don't want to do it in the middle of the year, last quarter. I'm going to have some angry existing customers.  I have a studio with my lighting set up in there and I know how to use them, well. I'm just not as comfortable with my speedlite that mounts to the top of my camera. It seems to blast a massive amount of light even when I turn it down.  I'm still learning new stuff everyday


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## spacefuzz (Sep 20, 2011)

shellie said:


> I have looked on the website available. But some of them give limited info. I don't know how to really go about researching with out being deceitful and pretend like I'm a potential customer. In I'd say a 50 mile radius there are three other studios. I know there are hundreds of fb photogs but I don't think any of them have studios. I plan to raise my prices effective Jan 1. I don't want to do it in the middle of the year, last quarter. I'm going to have some angry existing customers. I have a studio with my lighting set up in there and I know how to use them, well. I'm just not as comfortable with my speedlite that mounts to the top of my camera. It seems to blast a massive amount of light even when I turn it down. I'm still learning new stuff everyday



I wont offer you any speedlight advice since I shoot landscapes and havnt used mine in months. But on the business end of it, no offense but get rid of all of your current customers.  If you are making $1000 in revenue a month....thats $12k per year.  I mean seriously.....thats not even enough to cover your overhead.  By not changing your model you are just running yourself out of business.  Its not deceitful to call a competitor and just ask what a package would cost, its called market research.  Its not a closed bid government contract or anything.  Then take those numbers, along with how much cash your business currently has and all your overhead numbers.  Run them through some math and determine what you have to charge to break even, make 10%, 20% etc. Dont forget to add your salary to those numbers. The profit left over can be used to grow your business. After taking a hard look at those numbers and compare them to the prices charged by the high end competitors.  If you are close and they are running successful business you have a market. If not you either need to cut costs some how or find something else to invest in because your venture wont work out. 

Simple to say, hard to impliment. But limping along for the rest of the year like you are is just throwing money away.  If you want to waste it, send it to me.


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## ladynikon (Sep 20, 2011)

Instead of loosing the customers who you currently have u could use them to network and cut a deal maybe you agree to keep the price the same for a certain time period in exchange for them advertising and referring you new customers who you could charge full price. Just a thought.


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## bennielou (Sep 20, 2011)

Hi Shellie,

I read your post, and the ones that followed, and the problem that I have with the whole deal is that you said nothing about setting up a legal business, paying your taxes (state and federal), and you admit that you don't have the manditory liability insurance.  I also doubt that you have given to much thought to what you are actually making for your time involved, and the wear and tear on your equipment.  (I go through speedlights like you wouldn't believe, and have to replace my cameras every year or two).

Anyone can set up a facebook account and give work away.  If you don't mind giving it away, and people are streaming in to get low cost photography, then it sounds like everyone's happy.  

However, if you want to actually make money after doing and considering everything in the first paragraph, then I would suggest you get to the point that you can charge what you need to make to actually have a business.

I hope this isn't coming out all bitchy, because that is not the way it's intended.  It's just that I've seen a ton of people take your approach, and it doesn't work.  Make some changes, and it could.

Best of luck!


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## spacefuzz (Sep 20, 2011)

ladynikon said:


> Instead of loosing the customers who you currently have u could use them to network and cut a deal maybe you agree to keep the price the same for a certain time period in exchange for them advertising and referring you new customers who you could charge full price. Just a thought.



the only problem would be when the new customers learned the old ones were getting a steal of a deal. bad mojo ensues. 

You could have a sit down discussion with your current customers explaining to them why you need to raise prices and how it will enable them to recieve a superior product.  Done right that can sometimes work.


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## shellie (Sep 20, 2011)

I set money aside for taxes so that is covered.  I was unaware of manditory liability insurance until this thread.  I have asked for help from multiple places and it never came up.  I have even contacted the small business org and no one seems to be able to answer my questions.  If you can tell me where to get answers I would be grateful for the information and make the calls.  As for the facebook stuff,  I was a photographer before I was on fb.  I just set the fb account up to help get my name out there.  I was told that I could do a DBA, doing business as, and that's what I did.


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## shellie (Sep 20, 2011)

To all the posters:  I don't have all the answers.  There are several things that I now realize I'm doing wrong.  I am thankful to all of you have given me advice, suggestions, pointed out things I'm not doing right and need to work on.  I hope I can turn this thing around and be successfull, by my standards.  I love my work.  I love my job.  I'm trying to pursue my dreams.


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## spacefuzz (Sep 20, 2011)

shellie said:


> I love my work. I love my job. I'm trying to pursue my dreams.



Well by my standards that means your on the right track!


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## orljustin (Sep 20, 2011)

shellie said:


> 2WheelPhoto said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That is not advertising.  Come on, are you really serious about this?


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## bennielou (Sep 21, 2011)

shellie said:


> I set money aside for taxes so that is covered.  I was unaware of manditory liability insurance until this thread.  I have asked for help from multiple places and it never came up.  I have even contacted the small business org and no one seems to be able to answer my questions.  If you can tell me where to get answers I would be grateful for the information and make the calls.  As for the facebook stuff,  I was a photographer before I was on fb.  I just set the fb account up to help get my name out there.  I was told that I could do a DBA, doing business as, and that's what I did.



Hi Again Shellie,
I think you are confusing the tax issue.  You can't just "set aside" money for your sales tax.  You have to file as a business with the state, and pay quarterly.  I think you mean you are saving for your Federal taxes.  Those are two separate things.
Here is the link to the taxes I am talking about, and your rates: 
New Rates and Effective Dates

I'd take care of that right away, as people always eventually get busted.  *You will stand out more to the county as you have a studio*  Not to mention, there is a "reward program" that encourages competitors to turn each other in.  (They have been really ramping that up in the last few years) The fines and late fees are astronomical, so taking care of it quickly is better.

The reason I point this out to you, is it was something that I was also confused about, and I ended up paying 5 figures to cover it.  I had a lot of money in the bank, but it almost put me out of business.  And the State doesn't screw around.  They want the money in 30 days or else.....

Also, did you actually set up a DBA, or are you just calling yourself one.  I mean, did you do the actual paperwork at the county?  If you did, the State already knows you are out there.  If not, you are not an actual business yet, and therefore would be personally liable should any number of things happen.

Liability Insurance is normally $1,000,000.  (Mine is $2,000,000)  Don't worry though, that is only about $200 a year and $25 for each location (paid once for location).

Also PPA is a good idea, as they can help you with any lawsuits you may encounter personally, regarding unhappy clients, lost files, etc.

I don't want this to sound like a downer.  This is just the things you need to be a legit business.  I've been in business for a long time, and done right, can be a very rewarding profession.  Keep at it, but before you worry too much about ads and soforth, you need to take care of the business basics.  These costs will help you determine what you need to charge to make a profit.

Best of luck, and I honestly hope this helps.

Hope this clears up some of the business aspects.


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## TCUphoto (Sep 22, 2011)

I skipped a lot of the posts in between here and the beginning, so I apologize if this has already been said. Your website needs help. The neon pink and black is aimed at females only and appears tacky. Go for more gender neutral tones, like light blue and tan, for example. Look at other popular companies colors. Facebook:  Navy and white. Martha Stewart:  robins egg blue and white. Secondly, I didn't see a portfolio on there. Maybe you do have a portfolio on there, and I missed it, but that means others are missing it too. Third, you have grammatical errors on there. Fourth, screaming SENIORS SENIORS makes you sound desperate. You can communicate the same message without sounding like you are not getting any business.

You seem like a very sweet lady, so I hope this does not offend you, but rather helps you. I wish you the best!


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## CCericola (Sep 22, 2011)

Listen to bennilou. There is a lot of good information there. CYA, Cover your A$$. Doing things by the book is a lot less stressful. In NJ you can be a sole proprietor but not a DBA so I had to do a DBA under my husband's LLC. What is nice is my personal property is safe. The house, car. etc... And don't be late with your quarterly tax payments. It can come back to bite you in the butt.


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## bennielou (Sep 22, 2011)

CCericola said:


> Listen to bennilou. There is a lot of good information there. CYA, Cover your A$$. Doing things by the book is a lot less stressful. In NJ you can be a sole proprietor but not a DBA so I had to do a DBA under my husband's LLC. What is nice is my personal property is safe. The house, car. etc... And don't be late with your quarterly tax payments. It can come back to bite you in the butt.



I missed paying by one day, and got a $125 fine on top of my payment.......


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## bazooka (Sep 22, 2011)

This thread is awsome... should be stickied... so much useful info here, and no "you suck, quit now" comments.  Bravo.

One thing I will add, although it's not high priority, your website is flash.  As such, it cannot be "read" by search engines.  Try searching for "Latham Photos" and you will not see your site come up (at least on the first page).  Also, not all systems are flash capable and flash is constantly being updated and things tend to break.  I would get out of the flash business altogether.  And when you get these other legal things taken care of, you can reserach "SEO" or search engine optimization.  After all, your company name is "Latham Photos" and your website is lathamphotos.com.... it should be the #1 hit on google.  If someone searches for your first and last name, it should be the #1 hit.


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## Patrice (Sep 22, 2011)

Hello Shellie,

I admire your willpower. Starting a business in an already crowded small market area is not an easy task. And it is especially difficult when that business is to be your sole income from the start.

I have started and run a number of businesses throughout my career, there is a tremendous sense of achievement when something you personally started grows and becomes successful. However all is not rosy, 85% of startups fail within 5 years. The entrepreneur does not see a business failure as a personal failure, but rather as a lesson learned to apply to the next opportunity. One of the most common reasons for failure is not lack of knowledge, or lack of effort, or lack of luck, or even lack of customers, but lack of management skill. Management skill not only includes the ever important cash flow but also marketing and pricing. Many entrepreneurs make the mistake of pricing themselves too low which leads to cash flow problems which leads to a credit crunch which leads to business bankruptcy. These things have been talked about above. What I would add is business training. If there is a community college in your area check to see if they offer adult education evening or weekend classes in business and management. I know, a single mother's time availability is already way past the point of being non existent but try to find the means somehow, it may well mean the difference between success and failure. 

Make a 5 year business plan with at least 6 month pro-forma financial statements. Be thorough with it, don't just guess at the various numbers but use real, or at least realistic, estimates for all the entries. Get help from the business community itself (chamber of commerce for example or business development agency) with respect to local market statistics. Even if you don't use your business plan to secure financing it is a very useful business assessment tool. Refer to it often to see where you stand and keep it current as much as you can.

A last very small point. You NEED to make a profit, profit is AFTER all of your expenses INCLUDING your salary. Profit will not likely happen in the first couple of years, but if your business does not ultimately make you more money than you could earn working elsewhere then there is no real point to all of the hard work and heartache.

Just a quick note on flow trough items. You almost need to charge up to 3 times your purchase price in order to make any money on an item that you resell. If you pay $10 for a frame, the customer should pay nearly $30 dollars for it in order to recover your personal, overhead, handling, storage, and carrying costs associated with that item. 

A photography business is probably 35% about photos and 65% about running a business.

Good luck, persevere, don't be afraid.


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## shellie (Sep 22, 2011)

Thanks for all the continued support and advise! I haven't been posting replies because I have been busy working my butt off to accomplish all the new things I've learned here. Keep it coming! I know I'm not the only one who is/will benefit from all you awesome posters! Again, thanks so much!


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## bennielou (Sep 23, 2011)

I'm glad all this is helping you, Shellie.  You seem like a nice, and very determined person.

Patrice, can I give you a big "Amen"!  I agree with every single word you said.  Every.  Word.


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## shellie (Sep 24, 2011)

I was wondering if anyone knows if there are any special permits you need for being a photographer, like city and county. I have looked and not found solid answers. Thanks.


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## CCericola (Sep 24, 2011)

Every city and county is different. This is where a business lawyer comes in handy. Definitely contact your local permit office to see if there is anything you need. Or pay the lawyer to do it for you.


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## orljustin (Sep 24, 2011)

Contact your city and county.

But probably not, otherwise everyone else on Craigslist would be getting arrested.  Typically, permits are needed for specific areas where commercial shooting is going on.    You probably want to ask about a "license", not a permit.


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## shellie (Sep 26, 2011)

Happy to tell everyone that my wedding I did over The weekend was a beautiful success! And... I used my flash for the reception and all turned out! I knew I just need more time and practice and I will get better.


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## MTVision (Sep 26, 2011)

Post some pictures. Love to see them


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## Bitter Jeweler (Sep 26, 2011)

MTVision said:


> Post some pictures. Love to see them


Shellie, are you ready for some brutal critique?


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## mishele (Sep 26, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> MTVision said:
> 
> 
> > Post some pictures. Love to see them
> ...



She made it through this thread w/ grace.....=) So I think she can handle a little C&C.


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## shellie (Sep 26, 2011)

I had attempted to post some images in the beginning of this thread but it didn't work. The wedding wasn't a very "elegant" wedding so to speak  it was a rush put together ordeal. You guys just want to see if I used my flash, don't you? Jk!


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## MTVision (Sep 26, 2011)

You have to host your pictures through another site like flickr.com. It's pretty easy if you upload some pics to flickr then go to the share button - grab the link make sites it's the bbcode then copy and paste here. 

I don't care if you used your flash or not! . Some people can be brutal during cc but it helps to get feedback - good and bad. Plus as mishele pointed out you handle criticism with grace!


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## boomersooner02000 (Sep 29, 2011)

shellie said:


> I was wondering if anyone knows if there are any special permits you need for being a photographer, like city and county. I have looked and not found solid answers. Thanks.


   This is where you need to go to get your answers. I am in OK as well and have been doing a lot of research on behalf of my wife who is attempting to start her own photography business.   State Business Registration System » Oklahoma Department of Commerce   Any questions let me know.


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## ManhattanShutterBug (Sep 29, 2011)

To me sounds like you have no idea business wise what you are doing. Learn the business aspect, it's very important. Get insurance and make sure you do your taxes. Also you charge WAAAAAY to cheap. Anyways like I said learn the business side and raise your prices. If you start out cheap and then raise your prices people will expect your cheaper prices. Especially if you do referrals. Mrs.X will tell Mrs.Y she got a family shoot 6 months ago for $50 and then when you tell Mrs.Y it's now $100 she wont be happy. Anyways best of luck!


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## Patrice (Sep 29, 2011)

ManhattanShutterBug said:


> To me sounds like you have no idea business wise what you are doing. Learn the business aspect, it's very important. Get insurance and make sure you do your taxes. Also you charge WAAAAAY to cheap. Anyways like I said learn the business side and raise your prices. If you start out cheap and then raise your prices people will expect your cheaper prices. Especially if you do referrals. Mrs.X will tell Mrs.Y she got a family shoot 6 months ago for $50 and then when you tell Mrs.Y it's now $100 she wont be happy. Anyways best of luck!






Not to be too much of an a$$ here, but all of this has been covered in previous responses. No need to keep beating on this lady with the same stick.


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## ManhattanShutterBug (Sep 29, 2011)

Patrice said:
			
		

> Not to be too much of an a$$ here, but all of this has been covered in previous responses. No need to keep beating on this lady with the same stick.



Well I apologize for repeating, I didnt read through the 5 pages of responses. Nobody is "beating on" her, just giving her my 2 cents........


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## KmH (Sep 29, 2011)

ManhattanShutterBug said:


> ...I didnt read through the 5 pages of responses. Nobody is "beating on" her, just giving her my 2 cents........


Which was a big mistake (and a pretty lame excuse), since you then couldn't know you were "beating on" her, and that your 2 cents actually had zero value.


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## shellie (Sep 29, 2011)

I have raised my prices! I took the plunge and did it even tho it was scary! I got with my clients that I'm doing baby pictures until age one for and told them I would honor the current prices until their child reaches age one, so hopefully not to lose them.  I may come off sounding dumb for asking questions that you already know the answers but Im asking so I'll know the answers too. I have made lots of calls and read thru many websites and have had trouble getting accurate answers. Since some of you have been here I came to you to lead me in the correct direction instead of wandering aimlessly thru all the avenues of information.  I never claimed to be a business major and yes I'm having a rough start. Thanks for the continued support from those of you who are genuinely helping me. Same remains for those of you who leave less than helpful comments, may you never be in my position. I have learned so many things to better myself and I am proud of the progress I made. I didn't realize how much information I didn't have before I came to this website.  I have also decided to keep my "tacky" pink in my logo. I have a brand new logo and the pink is representative of my personality and style. If some one chooses not to hire me to take pictures for them because my name reads in pink I'm fine with that. I like pink, so harass on.  I'm sure there are other posts I'm forgetting to reply to, sorry. I am also working on getting my website in shape and putting the professional feel to it. thanks again everyone!


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## Bitter Jeweler (Sep 29, 2011)

shellie said:


> I never claimed to be a business major and yes I'm having a rough start.



Yeah, I was an art major. Never, ever, thought I would have my own business. 

Starting out is rough. You quickly learn about things you didn't consider. Business stuff will start clicking. 

Good for you for taking the price leap. I hope it serves you well!


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## KmH (Sep 30, 2011)

For a business signature what *you* like is pretty much pointless.

All that counts is what is effective at branding your business to prospective clients.

You don't actually need a logo for a local, or even regional small business.

Logo design is a fairly specialized specialty in the graphic arts world. If your new logo is something you designed yourself, unless you have graphic arts training it's not likely it's going to be effective.

Did you use a vector graphics application to do the design?


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## dnavarrojr (Sep 30, 2011)

When things start getting tight, I look at other sources...  Pet Photography (much easier now that I have a studio), Mini-sessions at a local attraction (park or lake, usually).  I get my clients to shill for me ("Hi Jane, this is Dave from Topeka Design. {Blah blah, small talk}. Hey, the reason I called is because I noticed it's about that time of the year for your family photos and I was wondering if you'd be interested in getting you next session for free, including prints.  Invite your family and friends over, hold a little party at your house and we'll shoot there.  I'll give you 10% off your photo package for every package I sell.  So if I sell 10 packages, yours is completely free. And I'll give you an additional $50 print credit for every package sold after the first 10.")

Also, I'm usually 1 or two holidays ahead.  So right now we're shooting Christmas sessions.  In November we'll start shooting Valentines sessions (we promote our Valentine sessions during the Christmas holiday shopping season).


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## orljustin (Oct 1, 2011)

How about a link to this logo?  I can't find the website link anywhere...  Just the main photo.net page: Shellie Latham - Photographer Biography, Photography - photo.net

BTW, if you're trying to attract clients, you may want to revise this:
" I'm  a sinlge mom of two great kids.  I'm not profssionally trained,  I've never taken classes or been to a school for photography.  I am  completley amature.  I work with what I have readily available. I've not  traveled to great destinations either.  I would love nothing more than  to make a living out of my work but I just don't have the clients.  I'm  not in it for money.  I love to take pretty pictures.  I have the most  fun when I sit behind my computer and play with all my work.  My area is  fairly small and there is already a couple studio's in the area and I'm  not a very competitive person.  I mostly do Senior pictures i like to  be able to offer them to my friends and family who can't afford the  outrageous prices that our local's cost.  I don't know it just makes me  feel beter some how.  I'm not really much into landscapes and the like.  Some of the pictures I have uploaded to this site were taken with a  camera that cost about $80 bucks from good 'ol wal mart.  I upgraded to a  newer bigger camera and really dislike it I should have stuck with a  Canon but I thought I'd at least give it a try.  Well that's all I got  for now feel free to e-mail me I like all the interaction I get from  this website, so thanks a bunch."


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## shellie (Oct 1, 2011)

I forgot about that photo.net bio!! Thanks. I'll change that. That's several years old. New website is under major construction but the web address is lathamphotos.com. Thanks for reminding me about that bio! I just got done editing the wedding pics last night and I'll be working on getting them up soon.


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## vtf (Oct 7, 2011)

If you could network with other photogs and be a second shooter for weddings and events, this will give you some experience and contacts. They could also get referrals from your studio business for maybe some referral income. Weddings around here start at $1000 for eight hour event, do 2 and your work is at home the rest of the week with your kids editing the images. Fall and winter are slow months so either take your vacation time or supplement your income with a second job or Christmas shoots dnavarrojr mentioned. Do event photgraphy during Christmas parties. Also for a free medium in most areas Craigslist is a viable option for directing potential customers to your websites and Facebook page, its free traffic and can't hurt, just keep your prices high enough to support you, don't get into the $25 photo shoot war. Good Luck.


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## SayGee (Oct 18, 2011)

Hi Shellie, Im brand new here and posted for the first time today.  

Bitter Jeweler was kind enough to reply to my post simply by linking to yours. 

 As its 2:38 in the morning and my eyes are burning from exhaustion, I have to call it a night very soon -but will be re-reading the wisdom shared in the responses to your post here.  

For now, however,  I just wanted to say that I hope things are going well for you  and based on your initial post here, we have some things in common other than passion for photography.   

I, too, am a single mother and am hoping my passion for photography leads to a successful businesss (sole income source) after having been SAHM for a whole lotta years. You're a bit ahead of me in the start-up process, but your post made me feel not so alone.


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## thereyougo! (Oct 31, 2011)

I don't have much to add as I'm not a pro.  What I would say is that you have to keep your personal Facebook and business facebook separate.  Have your personal Facebook set to private so that any snapshots you take aren't viewable by potential clients.  A fun shot taken quickly is fine among people you know, but amongst potential clients is a big no-no.  Plus you don't want to always be thinking like a pro photographer when taking fun family photos.  You don't want to be thinking about how a shot you take when having fun with your children will make your business appear


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## MLeeK (Oct 31, 2011)

shellie said:


> I have raised my prices! I took the plunge and did it even tho it was scary! I got with my clients that I'm doing baby pictures until age one for and told them I would honor the current prices until their child reaches age one, so hopefully not to lose them.  I may come off sounding dumb for asking questions that you already know the answers but Im asking so I'll know the answers too. I have made lots of calls and read thru many websites and have had trouble getting accurate answers. Since some of you have been here I came to you to lead me in the correct direction instead of wandering aimlessly thru all the avenues of information.  I never claimed to be a business major and yes I'm having a rough start. Thanks for the continued support from those of you who are genuinely helping me. Same remains for those of you who leave less than helpful comments, may you never be in my position. I have learned so many things to better myself and I am proud of the progress I made. I didn't realize how much information I didn't have before I came to this website.  I have also decided to keep my "tacky" pink in my logo. I have a brand new logo and the pink is representative of my personality and style. If some one chooses not to hire me to take pictures for them because my name reads in pink I'm fine with that. I like pink, so harass on.  I'm sure there are other posts I'm forgetting to reply to, sorry. I am also working on getting my website in shape and putting the professional feel to it. thanks again everyone!




I didn't read every response here, so forgive me if I am beating the dead horse here. Your pricing is actually PAYING your customers for you to photograph them. You already know you need to get everything legal and on the up & up side of things. Then you REALLY need to take a good long hard look at your cost of doing business (CODB.) Here is a good CODB calculator for photograpehrs NPPA: Cost of Doing Business Calculator . You will need to have an entry in ever field-even if it is 0. If you have a 0 in there somewhere you need to think long and hard because you shouldn't. If you are using your home office that space costs you something. Yes, it's included in your  household bills, but you NEED that space to do business. It's now a business expense. Same with the electric, gas, etc to run that portion of the house. If you are using a computer or camera or other things that you already owned, it's still wearing on them and you will have to eventually replace them. They are still an expense... 

You've said you have raised your prices and Kudos to that. Your  pricing is PROBABLY still working against you for your target market.  Think about what we say here about goods for your camera... "You get  what you pay for." That holds true in most things and MANY people will  thumb their nose at cheap as being the AWAC or faceboook photographer. 

And my last point on pricing-Work SMARTER not harder. Or most of us want to. I know I don't want to work 7 days a week, 10 hours a day for a measly paycheck.  How many hours do you want to work in a week? You can make your money working 40+ hours or you can make your money in the # of hours you want to set for yourself, but you have to price accordingly. Your price point should be where you can make what you NEED to make in the hours you need to work. Shooting 30 sessions and busting your but 24/7 is kind of silly when you can shoot 10 sessions and work a normal pace.  You don't have to take a million sessions. You don't want EVERY client, you want YOUR client. Price for YOUR client.

Next your marketing. It's actually working against you. Consider the  average viewer that is seeing your marketing. Are they the person who is  going to spend money on custom photography? And are the person who is  going to spend a large amount of money on custom photography? Probably  not. Most of your marketing is reaching the wal-mart budget people. You  have to figure out who your target market is. In order to do this you  need to figure out who you IDEAL client is. Not who your best client is,  but the one that if you could find a million people exactly like THIS  you would be rich. WHere do they shop? Where do they play? Where do they  live? What brands do they use/wear? What is their income level? What do  they drive? How large is the family? WHen you know who your IDEAL  client is, then you need to figure out how to market to them. You have  to hit them where THEY are going to see you. I HIGHLY recommend Mitche  Graf's Power Marketing book. Excellent reading.

Branding is so  important. I know you are clinging to your Logo and if you want to do  it, that's fine for you. Is it the best move? probably not, but if you  want to attract what it is going to attract then that is part of your  target market and it's fine. However consider it long and hard as you  are thinking in terms of branding. If Apple had been a typical  Kindergarten apple with the worm in it would it have been taken as  seriously as the apple logo is? Probably not. Apple has re-worked their  branding over the years to attract a certain type of customer-their  target market. Your branding may reflect your personality, however does  it reflect the personality of the high income family you want to  attract? It's your decision and you CAN do it with a kitchy logo, but it  is a WHOLE LOT HARDER. 

You have some things to learn yet and you know it. So work in what you already KNOW for now and add on more as you learn it. Don't try things out of your comfort zone until you learn what you are doing. It's a sure fire way to kill any business you may be building. There are many many resources for you to teach yourself from, but that's a whole different post!


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## thereyougo! (Oct 31, 2011)

i might be talking out of my rear end on this, but i'd be inclined to not necessarily openly advertise actual fees too openly.  It might make things less transparent, but one way of getting a 'quality' shoot would be for it to be tailor made for the client, so you encourage people to contact you to discuss what they would like.  This to me speaks of quality.  You have to get out of the Wal-mart pricing strategy.  Value for beans and meat is one thing, photography is quite another.  You can only say what something is worth in a more emotional sense with photography that's why it is so damned hard to do.  Once you get away from the price per print thought process you can get people to buy into the photography as something that is not a commodity in the same way their groceries are.  That I feel is where the secret lies if you want to make money.  Value for money in photography for me, is getting something that makes me feel "WOW! That's amazing! I don't care what it cost, it was amazing!"  if people are saying she's really good value, that means "she's really cheap" which means their expectations will be lower which you will most likely exceed (I haven't seen your shots though so giving you the benefit of the doubt), but that will not help you, as they will be looking for value not quality.  

Don't know if this makes sense, but when I buy photos, the last thing I look at is the price.  the price CAN be a deal breaker, but you need to sell the product before you get down to pricing in my view.  I'm not exactly struggling for money, but was when my wife and I chose our wedding photographer, and the person we picked was the 2nd most expensive, and he was the one person who didn't give his prices straight away.  He wanted to show us what he could do first, which as photography is partially art and partially commodity I feel is right.  If you are good at what you do, then you need to charge at a level that is appropriate for your ability. If the level isn't appropriate you will find out. But don't sell yourself short as people will assume you're cheap.  In the Uk cheap goes with nasty - cheap'n' nasty.  Sell the quality, have a portfolio to show people and if they are in your area, do home visits, and give them a tailor made view of their session.  They can order off a menu like they do in a restaurant.


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## LiquidGrace (Dec 30, 2011)

I think it's important for you to kind of get more comfortable with your equipment before you start worrying about how much you're charging. Everyone grows and everyone learns at a different pace. There is no fault in that or in saying "hey I don't know how to use this." But I think what will frustrate some is you're 5 steps a head of where you should be. Almost like you're rushing the process that is growing into a professional photographer. I am by no means a professional photographer, but some things like buying a speed light and not knowing how to work it to me would kind of signify that perhaps your efforts would be best spent learning how to use it before you wonder about renting a studio and upping your prices. I could be wrong and I'm sorry if I am but it just seems like you perhaps rushed this process for where your current skill set is at. This is not to say you're a  bad photographer, but when people say 'unqualified' I think they are referring to again where you currently are and where you want to be. 

I wish you all the best and am sorry if this information isn't useful. My only advice is to take a step back and look to hone your skills and build a good business plan. All the best!


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