# Digital FM2 anyone?



## sleist (Oct 20, 2013)

Hmm ...

Breaking: new Nikon full frame hybrid (mirrorless?) camera coming soon | Nikon Rumors


Can't wait to see what they price this at.  Recent releases does not make me hopeful.


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## odagled (Oct 21, 2013)

Been waiting for something like this for a long time.


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## goodguy (Oct 21, 2013)

So what is it ?
Mirror, mirrorless ?
Its being made to combat mirroless camera ?
Is it made for those who want small cameras ?
Its being made for those who want vintage look for their camera ?
Will this be Nikon's answer to Sony's new A7/R cameras or a new  line of cameras ?

I am confused as why Nikon made this and what crowd does it aim to attract.


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## TheLost (Oct 21, 2013)

According to the rumors... 
Not mirrorless (though Nikon calls it a hybrid)
D4 sensor (16mp FF)
F-Mount Lenses
Comes with a new 'Retro' 50mm 1.8G
Expeed 3 (strange that the D5300 has the Expeed 4)
Retro style body - high build quality and controls.

One thing i worry about is the EN-EL14 battery (D3200,D5200.. etc)...  If it can only do ~300 shots per charge i won't be happy 

Other then that im super excited to see what we get!


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## StandingBear1983 (Oct 21, 2013)

update :
Update: the new full frame retro Nikon camera will have F-mount and pentaprism | Nikon Rumors

not mirrorless, regular DSLR


Standard F-mount
Pentaprism viewfinder (meaning the camera will not be mirrorless)
The camera will meter even with non-AI lenses down to full aperture
The camera will ship with a new special edition Nikkor 50mm f/1.8G lens to match the look/design of the body
The camera will have physical controls and excellent build quality (which explains the 765g weight)
Expeed 3 processor
Same sensor as in the Nikon D4
Nikon calls it a "_hybrid_" camera - not sure what exactly they mean with that
The announcement most likely will take place in the next 1-3 weeks


Nikon FM2 like design
16.2MP 36x23,9 full frame sensor (same as in the D4?)
SD memory card
2016-pixel RGB image sensor
9-cell framing grid display
3D color matrix metering II
Native ISO range: 100-12,800 (incl. ISO 50 and ISO 108,200)
5.5 fps for up to 100 shots
3.2" LCD screen
Battery:EN-EL14
Dimensions: 143.5 x 110 x 66.5mm
Weight: 765g
It will come with a new AF-S Nikkor 50mm f/1.8G lens (again, not clear what mount the new lens will have)

​​


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## Mach0 (Oct 21, 2013)

A d4 sensor? I wonder how much it will cost.


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## TheLost (Oct 21, 2013)

Mach0 said:


> A d4 sensor? I wonder how much it will cost.



One of the commenters 'in the know' on NikonRumors says:


> _This will be a DSLR (with a mirror, yes) with F-mount (all your lens are good to go, a focus motor is included) and the specs are pretty much correct. I do not know too much, but to me it also looks like they took the internals from D4, stripped them off a bit and made a retro camera. I'd say it will have an quite *attractive price *and will be a hit._



My guess is $2500..  only the body looks to be new.  Everything else is off the shelf parts.


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## Mach0 (Oct 21, 2013)

TheLost said:


> One of the commenters 'in the know' on NikonRumors says:  My guess is $2500..  only the body looks to be new.  Everything else is off the shelf parts.



Depending on its AF system, I think it will be a hit.


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## cgw (Oct 21, 2013)

Sounds more like a digital FM3A. Too bad they can't seem to cook something up as sweet as the Fuji X-E1


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## goodguy (Oct 21, 2013)

It looks like Nikon is really not leading here but more like being dragged kicking and screaming.
Cool design but nothing new and exciting.
Sony with their A7/R is running in the front with their FF mirrorless and Nikon is just trying to stay in the race but I would expect of them to be inovating bring something new and fresh to the table, something that will WOW the market.

If at the long run mirrored technolocy is dieing then Nikon is beating a dieing horse here.


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## shadowlands (Oct 21, 2013)

Sound great to me...


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## Mach0 (Oct 21, 2013)

goodguy said:


> It looks like Nikon is really not leading here but more like being dragged kicking and screaming. Cool design but nothing new and exciting. Sony with their A7/R is running in the front with their FF mirrorless and Nikon is just trying to stay in the race but I would expect of them to be inovating bring something new and fresh to the table, something that will WOW the market.  If at the long run mirrored technolocy is dieing then Nikon is beating a dieing horse here.



I'm just thinking of a cheap d4 sensor lol.


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## Aloicious (Oct 21, 2013)

new info says no video of any kind....I'm kinda liking this, if the ISO performance is similar to the D4/D3/D3s/D700 at 16mp, I'm all over it.


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## Mach0 (Oct 21, 2013)

Aloicious said:


> new info says no video of any kind....I'm kinda liking this, if the ISO performance is similar to the D4/D3/D3s/D700 at 16mp, I'm all over it.




I hope the AF is at least as good as the d2x and I will be hella excited.


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## sleist (Oct 21, 2013)

I think it might be closer to $3000 on release (I hope I'm wrong).  Seems a lot like the D3/D700 situation except with a body distinctive enough to not compete with D4 sales.
D700 was $2999 at release.   Hmm, maybe $2700.  Then I'll need to choose between this, an 80-400mm, or and EM-1 with some glass.

Or a vacation ...

There's a lot to like perhaps, which means there's also a lot for Nikon to totally screw up.


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## Aloicious (Oct 22, 2013)

I'd actually be really surprised if it was priced at $3k or even around that. comparing it to a D700 when it was released isn't quite the same situation, the D700 was released when FX sized sensors were brand new and very expensive. it may have the image sensor of a D4, but much of what makes the D4 expensive is a lot of it's form and function which this camera doesn't have (like 10-11 fps vs 5.5 which requires less of the shutter mechanism as well as the processing power/buffer, as well as other things)...at least that is my thinking about it. especially since its coming with an f1.8 lens, if it were meant to be high end price point, I would think they would have made it a f1.4 considering the price points on the 50mm's aren't THAT different, the 1.8 just says to me 'we're trying to make this more affordable'. If I were to take a guess I'd say they're probably shooting for something in the $1500-2000 range...but that's just a pure guess on my part, I could very well be wrong.

however, as long as the price isn't too much, the more I look into it the more I'm liking it (assuming all the rumors are true)....the same guy that TheLost quoted earlier also mentioned that they're working on making it very mechanically controlled, i.e. external controls rather than relying on menu surfing, as well as a solid construction...which makes me very happy on both points. I hope they just focus on making it a great stills camera and shy away from flashy unnecessary features like built in wifi or gps (which both may be cool to have, but I have never wanted or needed them, and I don't see them as being much of a selling point, same with video, they could even get rid of live view on this one and I wouldn't mind (though I do like live view for some things like astrophotography, that's not really what I'd be using this body for, nor would too many others I would think).

of course all this is just my thoughts on it, everyone will have a different wish list....the most current post on nikonrumors says it'll be styled more like an F3 rather than the FM2 which is a little larger, but since it has a mirror in it, may result in a nicer brighter viewfinder setup. and should be announced the first week of November...unfortunately I'll be out on assignment covering SEMA that whole time but I'll have to check out the announcements in the evening at the hotel.

I'm officially excited about it. which I really haven't been about any body release since the d800...


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## sleist (Oct 22, 2013)

We'll just have to wait and see I guess.  I would have liked to see a D600 sensor in a D800 body with top of the line AF and 1/8000 shutter etc.
Not sure which I'd pay more for.  You may be right about the sensor not commanding the price by itself, but I wonder if Nikon would keep the price higher so as not to "cheapen" the perceived value of the D4's sensor.

I'm certainly interested.


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## TheLost (Oct 23, 2013)

New rumors... and new name... D4h
New set of specifications and US price for the retro-styled Nikon FX DSLR camera (D4H?) | Nikon Rumors

more details:
EN-EL15 battery (whew)
hybrid EVF/OVF viewfinder
new 'Hybrid' mechanical shutter
price: $3k ($3300 w/lens)

I would assume with the D4H name it will have 51point AF??


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## Aloicious (Oct 23, 2013)

:scratch:

now it has video? $3k+? Expeed 3A? whats a hybrid mechanical shutter? strange stuff....it sounds like he doesn't trust that information very much and is still relying on the previous information that he published. and rightfully so, some of that new info seems a bit odd to me. 

Like the D4H name, I've never seen Nikon release a variant of a flagship body in a small size, they typically like to keep the D(x)+X/S/H in the full sized, all out, balls to the wall, flagship bodies...not stripped down, experimental, compact bodies that come in various colors...and wasn't the H variant in the early flagship bodies meant as 'high speed' or something like that? I don't see them using the same moniker with a different meaning behind it...I also find it odd that just a few days before that info was put up, I was reading on another forum where some guy was talking about how he thought they should name it the D4H, just seems a little convenient to me. 

Also, why would they use Expeed 3a which was specifically designed for the 1 series, not full frame SLRs....odd

no AA filter? If I'm not mistaken, the reason they have pulled the AA filter on bodies like the D7100 and such is that the high pixel density itself combats the moire problems and there is no need for an AA filter at that density (especially when the D800 density was borderline on the issue), but 16mp on a full frame sensor is much MUCH less dense which would make the problems with moire significantly higher. I've never seen a body with a low pixel density like this have NO AA filter, I would think they would have something, maybe a weak AA or something, but unless they have some magic solution to the problem, it just seems strange to me.

and $3k+? as we talked about before that could be the case, (I still doubt it'll be that much personally), but if its that expensive I'm completely and utterly uninterested. no way I'm paying 3/5 the price of a real d4 for a crippled version that just 'looks neat'. if $3k+ is the real price point, I'd save up a little more, get a good used real D4, get all the benefits that come with the flagship, or get a grip for my D800, and set it in DX mode and get 16mp and 6fps, and maintain a whole lot more flexibility. 

I don't know what to think, I was a lot more excited about it before, I think we'll have to wait and see what the truth is when it actually comes out. it could either be a home run affordable, simple, but high performance stills body like was rumored earlier, or a expensive, crippled, experimental strike out for Nikon from what I can see.


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## Aloicious (Oct 23, 2013)

also in the comments, the same 'in the know' person that has commented on the prior specs also states that the new info, especially the name, is incorrect. 

to me the new specs almost sound like someone just gathering up random internet speculation and people's 'wish lists' and submitting them as rumors. like they saw the D4H name on the other forum I was reading, and saw the $3k+ on this thread, and another forum's thread someone was talking about how they really wanted some video capabilities, and other stuff...but I guess that is where 'rumors' come from, I'm still cautiously optimistic.


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## Mach0 (Oct 23, 2013)

Aloicious said:


> :scratch:  now it has video? $3k+? Expeed 3A? whats a hybrid mechanical shutter? strange stuff....it sounds like he doesn't trust that information very much and is still relying on the previous information that he published. and rightfully so, some of that new info seems a bit odd to me.  Like the D4H name, I've never seen Nikon release a variant of a flagship body in a small size, they typically like to keep the D(x)+X/S/H in the full sized, all out, balls to the wall, flagship bodies...not stripped down, experimental, compact bodies that come in various colors...and wasn't the H variant in the early flagship bodies meant as 'high speed' or something like that? I don't see them using the same moniker with a different meaning behind it...I also find it odd that just a few days before that info was put up, I was reading on another forum where some guy was talking about how he thought they should name it the D4H, just seems a little convenient to me.  Also, why would they use Expeed 3a which was specifically designed for the 1 series, not full frame SLRs....odd  no AA filter? If I'm not mistaken, the reason they have pulled the AA filter on bodies like the D7100 and such is that the high pixel density itself combats the moire problems and there is no need for an AA filter at that density (especially when the D800 density was borderline on the issue), but 16mp on a full frame sensor is much MUCH less dense which would make the problems with moire significantly higher. I've never seen a body with a low pixel density like this have NO AA filter, I would think they would have something, maybe a weak AA or something, but unless they have some magic solution to the problem, it just seems strange to me.  and $3k+? as we talked about before that could be the case, (I still doubt it'll be that much personally), but if its that expensive I'm completely and utterly uninterested. no way I'm paying 3/5 the price of a real d4 for a crippled version that just 'looks neat'. if $3k+ is the real price point, I'd save up a little more, get a good used real D4, get all the benefits that come with the flagship, or get a grip for my D800, and set it in DX mode and get 16mp and 6fps, and maintain a whole lot more flexibility.  I don't know what to think, I was a lot more excited about it before, I think we'll have to wait and see what the truth is when it actually comes out. it could either be a home run affordable, simple, but high performance stills body like was rumored earlier, or a expensive, crippled, experimental strike out for Nikon from what I can see.





Aloicious said:


> also in the comments, the same 'in the know' person that has commented on the prior specs also states that the new info, especially the name, is incorrect.  to me the new specs almost sound like someone just gathering up random internet speculation and people's 'wish lists' and submitting them as rumors. like they saw the D4H name on the other forum I was reading, and saw the $3k+ on this thread, and another forum's thread someone was talking about how they really wanted some video capabilities, and other stuff...but I guess that is where 'rumors' come from, I'm still cautiously optimistic.



My thoughts exactly


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## Aloicious (Oct 23, 2013)

it seems that the nikonrumors admin doesn't put much credit on them either in reading the comments, he just posted them up since everyone wants more info and thats the only lead he had, despite how weak it was. I'm still hopeful that it'll be a simple but high performance stills only body that's built solid. I don't really care much about the 'retro' look, sure it'll probably look nice and that'll be a plus, but I'm not a hipster so it's performance and price are what is key to me.


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## brian_f2.8 (Oct 23, 2013)

Id rather have a Leica M9.


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## sandollars (Oct 23, 2013)

What a waste of effort...


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## PhotoWrangler (Oct 23, 2013)

Hmmmm... a retro styled body, with NO video? I'd be on that like white on rice.


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## TheLost (Oct 24, 2013)

Teaser Video!!!!





First Nikon retro camera teaser: "it's in my hands again" | Nikon Rumors

Its working!! i want this camera and i don't even know what it is....


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## Aloicious (Oct 24, 2013)

I saw that too...the whole 'pure photography' theme echos to me that it won't have video as was previously rumored.


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## Aloicious (Oct 24, 2013)

it's already got a spot on Nikon's lineup list:
Nikon | Imaging Products | Digital SLR Cameras


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## amolitor (Oct 24, 2013)

I am much to cheap to ever buy such a thing, but I do enjoy how people are grabbing frames from the video and analyzing them.

Great job tweaking the rumor mill, Nikon!


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## sashbar (Oct 24, 2013)

I do not quite understand what is the point of an EVF in a DSLR? Looks like it will be heavy and not really smaller than current DSLRs.
If it is just a retro DSLR design - it just looks like a marketing gimmick, just to say - look , we have something stylish, that LOOKS like FUJI. 
If it were a mirrorless in a SMALL retro body with Nikon AF know how, I would be quite excited. That would be a step in the right direction.


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## TheLost (Oct 24, 2013)

sashbar said:


> I do not quite understand what is the point of an EVF in a DSLR? Looks like it will be heavy and not really smaller than current DSLRs.
> If it is just a retro DSLR design - it just looks like a marketing gimmick, just to say - look , we have something stylish, that LOOKS like FUJI.
> If it were a mirrorless in a SMALL retro body with Nikon AF know how, I would be quite excited. That would be a step in the right direction.



well... if we..



amolitor said:


> .. but I do enjoy how people are grabbing frames from the video and analyzing them.



..look at the video you can see he is using a very thin strap... a very thin 'retro' strap. 

I believe the weight is rumored to be less then the D610.


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## cgw (Oct 24, 2013)

Hot shoe perched atop a pointy prism?

I'd put a couple bucks on an FM3A-style hybrid shutter(hand crank option?) Maybe just enough battery to power the sensor/processing circuitry to keep the size down? Optical+EVF? Price seems *very* steep.
This has to be way more than just a retro fashion statement by Nikon to matter--and sell.


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## TheLost (Oct 24, 2013)

Hello "Nikon DF"... 

The name will be "Nikon DF" | Nikon Rumors

This guy...




... Is posing using his patented "Digital Fusion" pose.. (not to be confused with "blue steel")

Disappointed with the rumored 39 point AF from the D610.  But maybe the cost will be lower then expected.

Still want!


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## Mach0 (Oct 24, 2013)

TheLost said:


> Hello "Nikon DF"...  The name will be "Nikon DF" | Nikon Rumors  This guy...  ... Is posing using his patented "Digital Fusion" pose.. (not to be confused with "blue steel")  Disappointed with the rumored 39 point AF from the D610.  But maybe the cost will be lower then expected.  Still want!



A bit of a disappointment.   Let's see how the price is.


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## Derrel (Oct 24, 2013)

I THOUGHT the "D4h" post on Nikon Rumors was utter, total B.S.. Looks like it was indeed B.S.. I think it was very likely anti-Nikon propaganda, designed to stir resentment. Probably planted by a Canon fanboy type. "Disinformation", FUD, etc.,etc..

Now, the idea of a camera offering 1:1 AKA "*square format*" capture makes a lot of sense to me in this era of Instagram. Squares are nice, easy to work with, easy to compose in, better for newbies who cannot compose in the admittedly challenging 3:2 aspect ratio. The 3:2 aspect ratio is tough to work in unless it's cropped off a bit. 5:4 aka "eight by ten" aspect ratio is easier to work with on people pictures, and the pro Nikon bodies (D3,D4) offer 5:4 as an in-camera cropping option.

16:9....sure...it's a popular format these days.


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## TheLost (Oct 24, 2013)

Derrel said:


> Now, the idea of a camera offering 1:1 AKA "*square format*" capture makes a lot of sense to me in this era of Instagram. Squares are nice, easy to work with, easy to compose in, better for newbies who cannot compose in the admittedly challenging 3:2 aspect ratio..



But will it have WiFi to put the pictures on the line?


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## Aloicious (Oct 24, 2013)

sashbar said:


> I do not quite understand what is the point of an EVF in a DSLR? Looks like it will be heavy and not really smaller than current DSLRs.
> If it is just a retro DSLR design - it just looks like a marketing gimmick, just to say - look , we have something stylish, that LOOKS like FUJI.
> If it were a mirrorless in a SMALL retro body with Nikon AF know how, I would be quite excited. That would be a step in the right direction.



the only specs that mentioned the EVF have been said to be '100% incorrect', from the current claims, it should have a pentaprism viewfinder which shouldn't be EVF from my understanding...personally I don't want ultra small, and I definitely don't want mirrorless, if that's what I wanted I'd be going for a 1 series, or something like the A7, or the other recent mirrorless designs out there. I agree that it COULD be a marketing gimmick, but it depends on how the real specs and most of all, price, end up being. it has the possibility of being a real successor to the D700 (basically D4 sensor performance in a smaller body, and affordable. I think the retro look really isn't the main idea behind the camera, but rather just a perk, a 'rather than just releasing something that looks like everything else, why not make it a little stylish' direction) 

I'm actually kind of glad its supposed to be somewhat heavy for it's size. to me that points towards metal bodies, higher quality materials, weather sealing, and general better build quality (granted, that's not always the case, but it definitely steers things in that direction from a rumored specs standpoint) 



cgw said:


> Hot shoe perched atop a pointy prism?
> 
> I'd put a couple bucks on an FM3A-style hybrid shutter(hand crank option?) Maybe just enough battery to power the sensor/processing circuitry to keep the size down? Optical+EVF? Price seems *very* steep.
> This has to be way more than just a retro fashion statement by Nikon to matter--and sell.



There have been no credible claims on pricing, the $3k-$3.3k specs are now said to be '100% incorrect'. if the price were $3k, I completely agree, way way way too steep, but I very much doubt it'll be in that range. same thing with the whole OVF/EVF stuff. Some of the comments on NR from people who appear to have some inside information, claim the camera pricing should be 'just below the D610 price range', but really, who knows...if it IS a d4 like performance in a small retro body and 'below D610' price, I think I'll be looking seriously at one.

I am kind of disappointed the AF system is from the D600/D610, I don't really care about 39 vs 51 points, I just hope they're not all bunched up in the center like the D6x0:
http://i47.tinypic.com/2dhdvk5.png


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## sleist (Oct 24, 2013)

This is beginning to look like more hype than substance.
I'm prepping myself for disappointment.

I mi8ght pay $3000 for the right set of specs.  This is looking less and less like the right set of specs.


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## amolitor (Oct 24, 2013)

I bet it's a dressed up Nikon 1.


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## sleist (Oct 24, 2013)

amolitor said:


> I bet it's a dressed up Nikon 1.



With a wicked cool neck strap.


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## Aloicious (Oct 25, 2013)

sleist said:


> amolitor said:
> 
> 
> > I bet it's a dressed up Nikon 1.
> ...



it better be a 'retro' neck strap


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## Solarflare (Oct 25, 2013)

So the state of rumors currently is:


FM3 like design (substantly bigger than FM2)
Available in black and silver/black
16 Megapixels, most likely the D4 sensor
Expeed 3 processor
SD Memory Card
2016-pixel RGB image sensor
3D color matrix metering II
The AF system of the Nikon DF will be most likely the same as in the D610 with 39 points
5.5 fps for up to 100 shots
9-cell framing grid display
1:1, 3:2 and 16:9 aspect ratio
3.2" LCD screen
Battery: EN-EL14 (Same as D3100 / D5100 / P7000)
Dimensions: 143.5 x 110 x 66.5mm
Weight: 765g
Pentaprism viewfinder
Standard F-mount
No video recording capabilities
The camera will have physical controls and excellent build quality (which explains the 765g weight)
The camera will meter even with non-AI lenses down to full aperture
The camera will ship with a new special edition Nikkor 50mm f/1.8G lens to match the look/design of the body
Nikon calls it a "hybrid" camera - not sure what exactly they mean with that
The announcement will be during the first week of November

This looks like a cheap design to me. D4 sensor, but otherwise very D6x0-ish. Especially disappointing is the same AF as the D6x0, with the same reduced size of the AF field. Its something I definitely wont tolerate again in my next camera, unless I would for some reason just HAVE to replace my D600.

So my guess would be cheaper than the D800, more expensive than the D610, because of better build quality than the later and worse tech than the former.





goodguy said:


> Sony with their A7/R is running in the front [...]


 Uuuuh ... your forum name is program, I guess ? Sonys photographic apartment isnt even profitable at the moment. And I dont give a crap about the A7/A7R since the lens selection available for it is absolutely horrid.




sashbar said:


> I do not quite understand what is the point of an EVF in a DSLR?


 Same as the EVF in any other camera. You still have the advantage of having an SLR, meaning a free view through the lens, but if the mirror is locked up (for example lifeview, video, mirror lockup for macro etc) you still have a viewfinder.

I think an EVF in a DSLR makes a LOT of sense and besides, Nikon has patents on such a concept, too.

It is not in the current rumor anymore, though, plus it doesnt really fit well into the whole "retro" vibe of the Nikon DF, either.


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## PhotoWrangler (Oct 25, 2013)

The whole 'no video' thing is making my butt cheeks pucker....


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## TheLost (Oct 25, 2013)

Aloicious said:


> sleist said:
> 
> 
> > amolitor said:
> ...



Don't forget it makes 'retro' sounding clicks..  

im not lying when i say...  i REALY like the clicks from the teaser video


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## runnah (Oct 25, 2013)

Yawn.


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## 114florida (Oct 25, 2013)

Waiting curiously to get best the price.


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## Mach0 (Oct 25, 2013)

PhotoWrangler said:


> The whole 'no video' thing is making my butt cheeks pucker....



Lol


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## TheFantasticG (Oct 31, 2013)

sleist said:


> I mi8ght pay $3000 for the right set of specs. This is looking less and less like the right set of specs.



Yup. I'm in the same boat.


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## Aloicious (Oct 31, 2013)

if it doesn't come in lime green with black racing stripes, I'm out.


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## TheFantasticG (Oct 31, 2013)

Out you will be, Aloicious.


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## Aloicious (Oct 31, 2013)

there's still hope. everything is 100% speculative except that the camera exists, will be announced on the 5th, and Nikon is trying to reach it's teaser video quota for the year within a week.


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## Solarflare (Oct 31, 2013)

Um, why 3000$ ?!?!?!

The 3000$ are part of the rumors that have been spotted as false.

We do NOT know how much the camera will cost.


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## Patrice (Oct 31, 2013)

Nice concept. I don't mind the minimalist and retro approach, one of my very favourite cameras is my well used and long owned FM2. However I would not likely buy one as my D700 satisfies all of my DSLR requirements. But&#8230; should Nikon ever decide to build a FX format mirroless FM mount camera with an optical/electronic viewfinder then I'd be really interested. Think Fugi X100 with FX format and FM mount adaptability!


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## cosmonaut (Oct 31, 2013)

sleist said:


> I think it might be closer to $3000 on release (I hope I'm wrong).  Seems a lot like the D3/D700 situation except with a body distinctive enough to not compete with D4 sales.
> D700 was $2999 at release.   Hmm, maybe $2700.  Then I'll need to choose between this, an 80-400mm, or and EM-1 with some glass.
> 
> Or a vacation ...
> ...



 The Sony a7R was rumored in the $3000.00 range but when it was officially announced the actual price was lower. I think the rumor is started on purpose to make the official price seem lower. Trick or Treat. But certainly this is a great move for Nikon.


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## coastalconn (Oct 31, 2013)

This camera certainly will not be priced below the D610.  The newest trailer clearly shows that it has an AF-On button and a metering lever which I think puts it in the "pro" class.  This is starting to look like a D700 replacement.  I'm not interested in full frame, but this is starting to look like a very interesting camera...
Nikon Df Pure Photography video teaser #5 | Nikon Rumors


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## Aloicious (Nov 1, 2013)

D700 possible replacement with old-school nikon logo..I can dig it...the newest video is very interesting indeed, lots more is shown...I agree about the pricing likely being higher than previously expected...

if you zoom in to like 600% on the image on NR of him turning the top dial you can make out "2000" and "4000" so that should be the shutter speed dial like the FM/F3/etc bodies... and you can vaguely see some green on another option which might mean some kind of auto mode.


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## sleist (Nov 1, 2013)

D700 replacement in a new body type.
So then, what might be next?

D300 replacement with exact same body.
Sharing same accessories and vertical grip.
Announcing in February.

For the DX version - would you want the same 24mp sensor as D7100 with increased buffer size or the 16mp Nikon A sensor?


----------



## snowbear (Nov 1, 2013)

They could re-introduce the Nikkormat brand on a DX version.


----------



## runnah (Nov 1, 2013)

For the prices mentioned why not get a d800?

Oh because it looks "cool".


----------



## amolitor (Nov 1, 2013)

I'm tellin' ya, it's a Nikon 1 in retro clothes.


----------



## brian_f2.8 (Nov 1, 2013)

Could it be a rangefinder? Is Nikon going after Leica's market. It's going to be a novelty. I read a rumor that it will have the D4 sensor.


----------



## Derrel (Nov 1, 2013)

Looking at the videos and the extracted still images, it looks like it has the high-end-style, twin button combined AE-L/AF-L button and separate AF-ON button setup on the back, so that's a higher-end control button system that's shared by the D2,D3,and D4 series cameras. Looking at the still of the top deck-mounted shutter speed dial, it looks like there's an AUTO speed setting in blue, and below that is what looks like it "might be" X, for X-synch, and also T, or Time exposure. Separate X and T would make me wonder if the shutter might offer mechanical timing of the X synch speed, and also perhaps a mechanical "T" speed for long exposures. For those unfamiliar with it, T is an older speed that's long discontinued; in T mode the shutter opens on the first press of the release and STAYS open until the second press of the release, meaning there's no need for a locking cable release to do long timed exposures. The advantage to a mechanically-timed "T" speed would be that the shutter could cease drawing any power from the batteries for long exposures, plus the more-important elimination of the need for a locking release.

Looks also like they went back to the older A/M autofocus switch on the left hand side of the lensmount,so it's obvious it's an AF body. A week or so ago, I did some checking; the 765 gram weight of this body is within 3 grams of the weight on a Nikon F3HP body, so I think this thing is going to be SOLIDLY made, and probably has a higher-end, all-glass pentaprism viewfinder with the kind of big, high-contrast viewfinder image old pro Nikon's, like the F3, were famous for. One hope a guy could have is that it has a removable pentaprism,with easily-changed, top-drop-in style (F,F2,F3-style) viewfinder screen options for better focusing with manual focusing lenses: I highly doubt this will be built this way, for a number of reasons.

The big question is, "What's up with that "rewind knob" control cluster? That's a very interesting place...let's hope they put some good stuff on that top-deck spot!


----------



## amolitor (Nov 1, 2013)

The ads suggest that they're going after the 'I have too much money' hipsters, so it'll probably have lots of megapixels and crap like that.


----------



## Derrel (Nov 1, 2013)

No, the megapixel crowd is being left behind amolitor...it's alleged to be the same 16 MP sensor the D4 has.


----------



## amolitor (Nov 1, 2013)

Huh, interesting.

They're doing a nice job of whipping up interest. Even I'm looking forward to Nov 5, and I am the opposite of a gearhead!


----------



## runnah (Nov 1, 2013)

What irks me the most is that there is ZERO performance advantages in going with the "old" style bodies. They were uncomfortable and the buttons and dials were in weird spots. It's purely an cosmetic choice aimed at a particular crowd.


----------



## Mach0 (Nov 1, 2013)

runnah said:


> What irks me the most is that there is ZERO performance advantages in going with the "old" style bodies. They were uncomfortable and the buttons and dials were in weird spots. It's purely an cosmetic choice aimed at a particular crowd.


  Yes (aimed at a particular crowd) and I think ( IMHO) that if put the same specs in a modern body like the rest of the cameras, it might sabotage the other cameras in their line up. A D4 sensor in a modern camera that takes 5fps with all of the bells and whistles of the new cameras.... Should do very well. Especially with those who really wanted a d700 upgrade.


----------



## Derrel (Nov 1, 2013)

runnah said:


> What irks me the most is that there is ZERO performance advantages in going with the "old" style bodies. They were uncomfortable and the buttons and dials were in weird spots. It's purely an cosmetic choice aimed at a particular crowd.



Ummm, sorry, but that's only one opinion from a relatively young shooter who has more experience with the "new" than with "the old"... 

Top deck mounted shutter speed dials allow the user to SEE what exact setting the shutter dial is set to, even if the camera is off. No need to turn the camera on to see if it is in AUTO mode, or set to 1/500 or 1/2 or whatever. This is pretty useful for the street shooter. Separate X-synch speed is easy to make flash shots that are always at X, and never exceed the X speed. The large white-on-black speed dial settings of classic Nikons are easy to see without one's eyeglasses on...and being analog, the ENTIRE RANGE of speeds is visible, at all times...this makes it easy to "count clicks"...also, the older bodies used full-stop shutter variations in manual mode...made it much easier to move from a slow speed to a fast speed with just one,two,or three clicks of the speed dial...not nine clicks, or twelve clicks to make a 3-stop or 4-stop shutter speed jump when moving from shade to bright light or vice-versa.

It's largely the difference between an analog clock, and a digital clock; one system shows the ENTIRE range of settings, and one's position within that range, at ALL times...the digital system shows one,single isolated data point, with zero contextual clues. And, usually only after a button has been pressed to turn the display on. And the display comes on in dim liquid crystal numbers that require good vision to see.

You like an automatic transmission....I like a stick shift....

The classic top-deck shutter dial was pioneered by Leica in the late 1920's...the system works great. The Edison-base lightbulb is even older...still works great...


----------



## runnah (Nov 1, 2013)

Derrel said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> > What irks me the most is that there is ZERO performance advantages in going with the "old" style bodies. They were uncomfortable and the buttons and dials were in weird spots. It's purely an cosmetic choice aimed at a particular crowd.
> ...



Why do you assume I am a young shooter? Also I only drive manual cars.

Any ways, my point is that the old style didn't have the ergonomic advantages of today's cameras. Try shooting one handed while holding a flash with some of the older style bodies. At least with my camera I can do everything with with my thumb and pointer finger. Honestly those points you listed are weak and person specific. Who doesn't know their shutter speed range? Who can't remember the setting they just used to take a shot. For the mode, well Canon's have a dial and Nikon's are pretty easy to tell as soon as you turn it on.

I don't see how looking at several dials is easier than looking at a little LCD screen that shows all the information.


----------



## Derrel (Nov 1, 2013)

I know you're in your early 30's,since you posted your age info last week. Your unfamiliarity with the issues are pretty obvious WRT to manual styled cameras, like say the Nikon F, or FM, or FM-2. Or Leica M3, or any other match-diode "mostly manual" cameras. I mean, when you say that traditional control placements have "no advantages", then you're obviously not familiar with the advantages that do exist,and which have existed for literally decades. The idea that the old style as you wrote has "*ZERO performance advantages*" is pretty amusing to me.

SIMPLICITY is the main advantage.

Maybe you can re-invent the butter knife? Or maybe the wheel?


----------



## runnah (Nov 1, 2013)

Derrel said:


> I know you're in your early 30's,since you posted your age info last week. Your unfamiliarity with the issues are pretty obvious WRT to manual styled cameras, like say the Nikon F, or FM, or FM-2. Or Leica M3, or any other match-diode "mostly manual" cameras. I mean, when you say that traditional control placements have "no advantages", then you're obviously not familiar with the advantages that do exist,and which have existed for literally decades. The idea that the old style as you wrote has "*ZERO performance advantages*" is pretty amusing to me.
> 
> SIMPLICITY is the main advantage.
> 
> Maybe you can re-invent the butter knife? Or maybe the wheel?



You aren't answering my questions but are questioning my familiarity on the subject. This make it seems like you cannot back up the argument with facts so you are questioning the person who asked the question. 

I will yield if you state something that is X times better on an old style body than a newer style.


----------



## Keisar (Nov 1, 2013)

Nikon stole my idea !!!!! F*cking bastard ^^

Nikon F2D: A Homemade Digital Nikon F2 Replica Crafted Out of Wood

(joke)


----------



## sashbar (Nov 1, 2013)

Keisar said:


> Nikon stole my idea !!!!! F*cking bastard ^^
> 
> Nikon F2D: A Homemade Digital Nikon F2 Replica Crafted Out of Wood
> 
> (joke)



WOW!  Amazing stuff Cesar. Looks like indeed Nikon stole your idea


----------



## Keisar (Nov 1, 2013)

No I don't think so, but I think that lot of people laughed so much during the summer on Nikon's office design...


----------



## amolitor (Nov 1, 2013)

As for the left side of the camera top deck knobage, that's where ISO and exposure compensation go, obviously. There's even a two-level knob there.


----------



## Derrel (Nov 1, 2013)

The top-mounted shutter speed dial is both the input device AND the display, in one, single control. There is no need to turn the camera on to see the speed it's set to. There is no need for a *separate input dial* on the back of the camera, and then *a separate LCD display* panel. 

If you've ever owned and used a very simple camera, like say a Leica M6, Pentax MX, or a Nikon FM-2, then you've worked with a very simple yet modern "*match diode*" camera. The concept was premiered on the early Leica, and has worked well for a little over eighty years. Adding the AUTO setting to the speed dial goes back to the Nikon's of the early 1970's (after the Nikkormats). It's VERY simple, very straightforward aperture-priority auto. AUTO requires a press on the small center button, which LOCKS the speed dial into AUTO mode, and keeps the setting set. This model, appears to be more like an FE or F3, since it appears to have an AUTO setting on the shutter speed dial.

THE IDEA Nikon is pushing now in the teaser videos is "pure photography". Nikon is an old-line camera-maker, and not a photocopier company like Canon, and not a game-console maker like Sony. I think Nikon is trying to appeal to a substantial set of people who understand how f/stop and shutter speed really are the basic controls on a camera. And they are also appealing to people who understand why a 50mm f/1.8 "normal" lens on a 24x36mm camera can be thought of as "pure". 

Every wondered why Oskar Barnack decided his new Leica camera would use a 50mm lens as standard? Ever wondered why Henri Cartier-Bresson made almost 99% of all of his pictures with a 50mm lens? Ever wondered why Nikon is showing this camera with a 50mm f/1.8 lens?

THIS IS A CAMERA. An instrument designed to appeal to people who understand that knowing exactly "when to click" is more important than some imagined ergonomic advantages gained by the mere presence of LCD readouts and five-mode exposure automation.


----------



## runnah (Nov 1, 2013)

Derrel said:


> THIS IS A CAMERA. An instrument designed to appeal to people who understand that knowing exactly "when to click" is more important than some imagined ergonomic advantages gained by the mere presence of LCD readouts and five-mode exposure automation.




Haha. I hope you are taking the piss because this is just the most ridiculous "arteest" sounding BS I've heard in a long time. 

So I am literally pissing on the ashes of every great photographer since the dawn on time every time I use my impure amoral modern Nikon? What happens when I change lenses? Oh no, dear Oskar is spinning in grave!!!

It's a BS marketing exercise designed to cash in on gullible people with too much money who think simple means buying over priced "retro" crap. "Simple" is a frame of mind, not something you buy off a shelf for extreme markups.


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## cgw (Nov 2, 2013)

Derrel said:


> The top-mounted shutter speed dial is both the input device AND the display, in one, single control. There is no need to turn the camera on to see the speed it's set to. There is no need for a *separate input dial* on the back of the camera, and then *a separate LCD display* panel.
> 
> If you've ever owned and used a very simple camera, like say a Leica M6, Pentax MX, or a Nikon FM-2, then you've worked with a very simple yet modern "*match diode*" camera. The concept was premiered on the early Leica, and has worked well for a little over eighty years. Adding the AUTO setting to the speed dial goes back to the Nikon's of the early 1970's (after the Nikkormats). It's VERY simple, very straightforward aperture-priority auto. AUTO requires a press on the small center button, which LOCKS the speed dial into AUTO mode, and keeps the setting set. This model, appears to be more like an FE or F3, since it appears to have an AUTO setting on the shutter speed dial.
> 
> ...



Think you need to review some corporate history(e.g., Canon and Sony)between splenetic rants. Nikon's worried and showing some desperation with product placement. Fuji opened the way 18 months ago with the X-Pro 1 which, I'm guessing, blind-sided Nikon designers. If they're smart, they'll have a cheaper DX version in the wings. This retro fashion statement will be a hard sell if it comes in over 2 grand. FX just isn't that big a chunk of their sales.


----------



## Derrel (Nov 2, 2013)

cgw said:
			
		

> Think you need to review some corporate history(e.g., Canon and Sony)between splenetic rants. Nikon's worried and showing some desperation with product placement. Fuji opened the way 18 months ago with the X-Pro 1 which, I'm guessing, blind-sided Nikon designers. If they're smart, they'll have a cheaper DX version in the wings. This retro fashion statement will be a hard sell if it comes in over 2 grand. FX just isn't that big a chunk of their sales.



I've long suspected you of being some kind of camera-industry troll or plant; a guy who posts from Toronto,Canada, typically to badmouth the Nikon Corporation's products on one of the world's largest photo forums...constantly dismissing new Nikon products, spreading fear, uncertainty,and doubt, and in general, acting like a payed shill. You do not post often, and have not been here very long...but mostly you post anti-Nikon rants, and whine about how Nikon doesn't maker enough products for you, or good enough products. Veeeeeeery interesting, methinks.....

Your posting history seems sort of FUD-like..almost like you work for SONY Corp...
.http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/search.php?searchid=2915055

Nikon does not "need" FX to be a "big chunk of their sales", especially as people move upward and away from $389 entry-level d-slr bodies which have ultra-low margins. The more customers Nikon has, the more lenses they can sell. More flashes. More accessories. FX bodies have much higher prices, and higher margins. It's more about total profit, not total revenue, or unit sales volume. Nikon is still the #2 camera-maker worldwide. Canon is #1, Sony a distant,distant third place. Sony has tried to break the stanglehold, but so far has failed miserably. They keep com,ing up with new lens mounts, new efforts, but to little success.

It's funny...the Nikon Rumors site owner last night began a new "Nikon Df" rumor post because the original post had grown to over 1,500 replies. Look around the forum cgw...it's mostly Canon and Nikon shooters...I can count on ONE HAND the number of Sony d-slrs I have seen in the real world in the last year.


----------



## cgw (Nov 2, 2013)

Derrel said:


> cgw said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hilarious. Anyone who questions your Solomonic wisdom *must *be a troll/shill/crank? Nikon is a company having difficulties in a rapidly shifting market. Investors and analysts tend to think so. Sorry but someone like Thom Hogan has forgotten more than you'll ever know about Nikon and the imaging business. I own and shoot Nikon gear. Have for years. Insufficient fan boy cred for you? Sorry.

BTW, you really need to check this site's Alexa scores against, say, photo.net. "One of the world's largest photo forums" is a bit of a stretch.

Nikon can't survive without its DX range. FX doesn't pay the bills.


----------



## brian_f2.8 (Nov 3, 2013)

Id like to think that Nikon is eliminating their DX line up, here is why. In this day in age, why have a DX censor on a DSLR? Not many pro's use a DX body. So Nikon can sell the FX to pro's and micro 4/3rds to consumers. If a consumer wants the interchange lens ability then buy a J1 or V1. This will separate working professionals and consumers. No working pro is going to work with a micro 4/3rd as their main camera. 

I highly doubt this will happen but who knows.


----------



## amolitor (Nov 4, 2013)

I don't understand why separating consumers and professionals is a good thing.

There was some verbiage in the latest video that makes me wonder if this thing is going to limit you to 36 exposures, somehow. THAT would be a bold move.


----------



## Solarflare (Nov 4, 2013)

amolitor said:


> [...] There was some verbiage in the latest video that makes me wonder if this thing is going to limit you to 36 exposures, somehow. [...]


 ROTFL nope thats not going to happen.



brian_f2.8 said:


> [...] So Nikon can sell the FX to pro's and micro 4/3rds to consumers. [...]


 Nikon doesnt produce anything at all for the micro four thirds system.


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## brian_f2.8 (Nov 4, 2013)

Well I was hoping it would be a rangefinder with a F mount. The mock up on nikon rumors is pretty ugly. I'll pass if this is true.


----------



## Derrel (Nov 4, 2013)

Well, photos of the new Nikon Df have been leaked, shown in all-black and in the more traditional 1970's-1980's-type chrome body with black accents style. WHat some folks call "panda".

Nikon DF Camera Images Have Been Leaked | Fstoppers


----------



## amolitor (Nov 4, 2013)

Screw in shutter release? These have to be faked. No way the camera companies are gonna give up expensive, proprietary, and unreliable.


----------



## jake337 (Nov 4, 2013)

This looks to be the prefect camera body for me!

A stripped down D4 for those who don't need all those extra features.  All I want is the ability to change shutter speed, aperture, ISO, and white balance.  Just your basic photography needs with an amazing sensor.  If it actually has a D4 sensor.


----------



## runnah (Nov 4, 2013)

I am waiting for the punchline...


----------



## Derrel (Nov 4, 2013)

...look in the mirror


----------



## runnah (Nov 4, 2013)

Derrel said:


> ...look in the mirror



I don't see a hipster douchebag so I guess I am not in the market for this camera.


----------



## cgw (Nov 4, 2013)

D4/F3HP love child?


----------



## TheFantasticG (Nov 4, 2013)

Amazon.com: Nikon Df 16.2 MP CMOS FX-Format Digital SLR Camera Body (Silver): Electronics

Getcha one while they're hot


----------



## runnah (Nov 4, 2013)

If that price is right than I am shocked that they are putting it up against the D800.


----------



## robbins.photo (Nov 4, 2013)

runnah said:


> If that price is right than I am shocked that they are putting it up against the D800.



Actually I might be drinking the kool-aid here but I think I understand the thought process behind that one.  I think they are thinking you're looking at two different markets, the D800 for the professional crowd and this one for the amateur with a pro style budget crowd.


----------



## runnah (Nov 4, 2013)

robbins.photo said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> > If that price is right than I am shocked that they are putting it up against the D800.
> ...



If that is the case than it seems silly to divide a small market even smaller. The market being people with $3k to spend on a camera.


----------



## amolitor (Nov 4, 2013)

Aw man. I'm so sad. That thing is fugly. I was really hoping the leaked pictures were fake.

The main thing you gotta hit with these things is that it has to be pretty. If you're selling a camera based on its appearance, let me spell this out:

_IT HAS TO LOOK GOOD_


----------



## sashbar (Nov 4, 2013)

Something tells me they have a similar DX body in line.


----------



## amolitor (Nov 4, 2013)

This goddamned thing has like 17 buttons and 10 dials on it. Maybe the two buttons on the back of the top deck behind the exposure comp/ISO dial are locks, though, so maybe 15 buttons. It's like an explosion at the button factory caused by a runaway semitrailer transporting dials.

My FE2 has 5 buttons (counting small throw levers as buttons) and 4 dials (counting the film wind as a "dial").

This is "pure photography"? Up yours. This thing is a boxy buttonfest.

And. AND. No PC socket. Screw in shutter release, no PC socket. WTF.


----------



## robbins.photo (Nov 4, 2013)

runnah said:


> robbins.photo said:
> 
> 
> > runnah said:
> ...



Well I guess that depends - if your the only game in town sure, you can say here's the D800 - Like.  Love it.  Use it.  When you have to compete with others for that market, like Canon, Sony, et al - well that's a bit of a game changer.  If I understand Nikon's thought process here (and hey, readily admit I may not) they are looking to attract new high dollar users from other venues - people who aren't necessarily pros but they do have a lot to spend on a camera.  So they make a high end camera with that cool retro look.  It does make a certain amount of sense, and I doubt they would have done it if the market research didn't support it.


----------



## robbins.photo (Nov 4, 2013)

amolitor said:


> Aw man. I'm so sad. That thing is fugly. I was really hoping the leaked pictures were fake.
> 
> The main thing you gotta hit with these things is that it has to be pretty. If you're selling a camera based on its appearance, let me spell this out:
> 
> _IT HAS TO LOOK GOOD_



So what are you trying to say here?  Man.. you can be so subtle at times it's maddening.. lol


----------



## robbins.photo (Nov 4, 2013)

amolitor said:


> This goddamned thing has like 17 buttons and 10 dials on it. Maybe the two buttons on the back of the top deck behind the exposure comp/ISO dial are locks, though, so maybe 15 buttons. It's like an explosion at the button factory caused by a runaway semitrailer transporting dials.
> 
> My FE2 has 5 buttons (counting small throw levers as buttons) and 4 dials (counting the film wind as a "dial").
> 
> ...



I'm guessing your probably not going to be Nikon's first choice for ad copy.. lol:

"The new Nikon FM2.  It's boxy.  It's buttony.  It's impossible to pick up or use without hitting a button or dial you didn't want to hit.  The Nikon FM2.  Because we were tired of having to layoff the people who work in our tripod and remote shutter departments."

Come to think of it I doubt I'll make their top ten list either.. lol


----------



## amolitor (Nov 4, 2013)

"Strap included, because it's the only way to pick the damned thing up without screwing with a setting someplace"

We haven't even seen the bottom. There's probably a keyboard or something down there.


----------



## sleist (Nov 4, 2013)

Looks like I was right when I said $3000.00  :/
There is no way I would spend that kind of money for lower spec AF and shutter than what's on my D700 and D7100.


----------



## cgw (Nov 4, 2013)

Think their quarterly numbers are due soon, too. Am wondering whether Nikon is now knee-deep in "commitment escalation" to DSLRs that's moving up to mid-chest level. The market is changing and one can't help but wonder whether they're "leaking" customers. Just not sure they're listening to the market. In that sense, the new Df is a little troubling.


----------



## runnah (Nov 4, 2013)

amolitor said:


> This goddamned thing has like 17 buttons and 10 dials on it. Maybe the two buttons on the back of the top deck behind the exposure comp/ISO dial are locks, though, so maybe 15 buttons. It's like an explosion at the button factory caused by a runaway semitrailer transporting dials.
> 
> My FE2 has 5 buttons (counting small throw levers as buttons) and 4 dials (counting the film wind as a "dial").
> 
> ...



I must admit I was expecting a much slicker and streamlined design.

It's almost as if there were a reason modern cameras look the way they do...hmmm, function over fashion anyone?


----------



## robbins.photo (Nov 4, 2013)

sleist said:


> Looks like I was right when I said $3000.00 :/
> There is no way I would spend that kind of money for lower spec AF and shutter than what's on my D700 and D7100.



Well I think my suspicion here may be correct, they aren't really marketing this thing to camera geeks - they are looking for the folks with the big pocket books who want something that looks like they are some kind of pro with a retro 35 mm camera even though they aren't.


----------



## amolitor (Nov 4, 2013)

It's totally a DSLR design, the proportions and so on are pure DSLR:

- a good half inch on the bottom of the camera below the lens mount
- lens mount slid quite far to the operator's left, rather than just "off center"
- quite thick back to front

The button/dial layout looks pretty much like the D4, which is itself a buttonfest, but then they threw 3-4 "retro style" dials on top.

Then the squared the shoulders and put some other half-assed retro notes on there.

It looks like a hurried assemblage of parts they already had lying around, retrofitted onto a body kit. A new frame with off the shelf D4 guts in it, maybe. Chop off the vertical grip, move some of the controls a little (not so much the wiring harness can't accomodate it), change the battery around to something smaller. It's not a hasselblad job, but it doesn't feel like a complete new design.

ETA: The probably bolted a cheaper AF and metering module into it, and maybe a worse shutter, too. Ugh. What an ugly baby.


----------



## Derrel (Nov 4, 2013)

amolitor said:
			
		

> This goddamned thing has like 17 buttons and 10 dials on it. Maybe the two buttons on the back of the top deck behind the exposure comp/ISO dial are locks, though, so maybe 15 buttons. It's like an explosion at the button factory caused by a runaway semitrailer transporting dials.
> 
> My FE2 has 5 buttons (counting small throw levers as buttons) and 4 dials (counting the film wind as a "dial").
> 
> ...



Are you BLIND, or just amped up on coffee??? The PC socket is *right where it has been for decades*, on the front of the body, under the small black PC cover port cap...good Lord man, I thought your considered yourself an "intellectual"...lol.

Yes, there are buttons on the back to run the digital stuff. It also has an LCD screen on the back. Your FE-2 didn't have an LCD screen on the back that showed the images it had just shot in the field...see, this new thing is a digital SLR...Why not compare this new Nikon d-slr against your old AT&T princess phone, Amolitor? How many buttons does that old landline telephone have? How many features does it have?

I think the entire "digital FM2" concept was fundamentally wrong: this is a multi-mode camera, with M,A,S,P modes, so it's a multi-mode exposure camera, like the Nikon FA was, or the Canon A-1. The FE and  FE-2 had only manual, match-diode metering and Aperture priority auto. It has analog controls for the exposure and shooting modes, but it also is a "hybrid". It'll be interesting to see how it shakes out as an actual "camera"...you know, something that takes photos.


----------



## runnah (Nov 4, 2013)

amolitor said:


> It's totally a DSLR design, the proportions and so on are pure DSLR:
> 
> - a good half inch on the bottom of the camera below the lens mount
> - lens mount slid quite far to the operator's left, rather than just "off center"
> ...



It screams "half-assed cash-in".

Pure would be a single dial that can handle multiple functions, a few buttons and then hide all the advanced stuff in a touch screen menu.


----------



## robbins.photo (Nov 4, 2013)

Derrel said:


> amolitor said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What are you trying to say here Derrel, that the blind can't get amped up on coffee?  Just because a guy has a guide cane or a seeing eye dog he's not allowed to abuse expresso like the rest of us?

Lol - sorry, couldn't resist.

The rest of your point is well taken of course, but I think his point might have been more towards the ergonomic side of things.  Me I have gorilla sized hands, so even on my old D5100 I have to be careful not to grab it in such a way that I hit something I didn't intend - usually it's the dang menu button thingy that moves my autofocus point one step right so I have to readjust.  Just from the pictures (which is truly the only way anything can be properly evaluated, I know.. lol) it looks like a whole lot of controls in a very tiny space.  Not that I'm really there target market anyway, so I guess it really doesn't matter all that much - lol.


----------



## amolitor (Nov 4, 2013)

Wait, is that cap? It looked like another dial. A small hard to use dial controlling god knows what. I don't think I've ever seen a PC socket with a cap on it, but I suppose they must ship with something. I assume they get lost instantly? I have three or four PC sockets around here on various crap, but none of 'em have caps.

I'm pretty sure I can still be an intellectual if I don't recognize insignificant objects I have never seen before.

If Derrel's right, subtract one dial from my previous list.


----------



## sashbar (Nov 4, 2013)

It is an ultimate B&W camera... 



... that is - Bells and Whistles


----------



## brian_f2.8 (Nov 4, 2013)

Hey Nikon, put the aperture settings on the lens barrel if you want retro.


----------



## amolitor (Nov 4, 2013)

It's possible that this is a test.

Nikon, as cgw keeps pointing out to us, has a problem. The DSLR market is starting to shrink. More precisely, certain segments are clearly going to evaporate, and certain others are clearly not going to evaporate. Nikon's long term strategy has to be entirely driven by:

- correctly segmenting their market: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_segmentation
- estimating the long term revenue potential in each of those segments
- capturing as much of _those with long term revenue potential segments_ as possible

If you're not in a segment that's going to matter in 10 years, Nikon doesn't really care about you, or at any rate they shouldn't. I'm not in marketing with Nikon, but we can rough out the major segments here:

- casual consumer, soccer mom, etc etc, wants "good pictures": GONE. IRRELEVANT. Milk it for now.
- professionals, with their laundry list of needs: HMM. PROBLEMS HERE. THEY'RE UNDER ATTACK TOO. STILL, 10 YEAR OUTLOOK SHOWS REVENUE POTENTIAL.
- enthusiasts, people who just love the gear, they love the process, they love making their art. THIS IS WHERE THE MONEY ALWAYS WAS, AND WHERE IT WILL BE IN FUTURE.

Enthusiasts come in a couple flavors, at least. Biggest, best, metrics-driven geeks. Retro-loving hipsters. Probably 10 other flavors.

This could easily be a quickly pulled together design based on off the shelf parts and a quick cosmetic body kit to test the size of that retro-loving hipster enthusiast market. Are those guys gonna go for Nikon, or is it all about the Leicas and the second-tier "I knew they were cool before you did" Olympus/Pentax/Whatever lineups? This is an interesting question, and one worth knowing the answer to.


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## runnah (Nov 4, 2013)

amolitor said:


> This could easily be a quickly pulled together design based on off the shelf parts and a quick cosmetic body kit to test the size of that retro-loving hipster enthusiast market. Are those guys gonna go for Nikon, or is it all about the Leicas and the second-tier "I knew they were cool before you did" Olympus/Pentax/Whatever lineups? This is an interesting question, and one worth knowing the answer to.



To me it makes no sense to go after this market with a FX camera. No one who cares more about how a camera looks, cares about the difference in sensor size. If they had slapped a DX sensor and priced this thing at around $1000 they would've cleaned up.

Professionals don't want it because of the specs.
Moms can't afford it.
Enthusiasts could possibly afford it but know enough about specs to steer clear.

So you're left with the very small "I care more about how my camera looks than functions" crowd which must be very very small.


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## amolitor (Nov 4, 2013)

Nikon's not a bunch of idiots, there's gotta be some sort of a plan. I think the reto-loving hipster is pretty conscious of image quality, and might dig the "sensor from the D4" aspect of things, might even get on board the huffy "it's not just about megapixels" train. Maybe. I guess it's a good sensor?

The styling sucks, which might torpedo the whole thing.


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## brian_f2.8 (Nov 4, 2013)

Think about a 24-70 or a 70-200 on the black n silver body. It's fugly. To use this body you need an older looking lens. 
I don't see the point. 

Highly agree dx censor for 1000$, even canon shooters would buy one.


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## robbins.photo (Nov 4, 2013)

runnah said:


> amolitor said:
> 
> 
> > This could easily be a quickly pulled together design based on off the shelf parts and a quick cosmetic body kit to test the size of that retro-loving hipster enthusiast market. Are those guys gonna go for Nikon, or is it all about the Leicas and the second-tier "I knew they were cool before you did" Olympus/Pentax/Whatever lineups? This is an interesting question, and one worth knowing the answer to.
> ...



I doubt it's as small as you might think. Now again I haven't seen Nikon's marketing data, however I do spend a ton of time at my local zoo taking pictures. I can tell you from experience that almost every person I've seen there with a high end, top of the line DSLR barely knows one end of it from the other. Talk to them for a bit and you find out real quick that they bought it because it was the most expensive. In their mind most expensive means highest quality and therefore best camera.

I know, the thought seems alien to me as well. Who in the world is going to go out and spend that kind of money without at least doing a bit of basic research? Turns out, tons of people do every day. They walk into a camera store, geek behind counter making comission on sale shows them FM2 - it's small and lightweight and will fit in your purse blah blah blah - they walk out with a camera that they have no idea how to use and they didn't ask any questions or say no because they didn't want to sound stupid. But because it was the most expensive they had, obviously that makes it the best camera.

I know.. boggles the mind - but believe it or not this is actually a good sized chunk of the market.


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## amolitor (Nov 4, 2013)

Cheap and retro-styled isn't a thing anyone else has tried, as far as I know. For excellent reasons.

Why on earth would Nikon want to attack a low volume, low margin market? If they wanted to try a sub $1000 DX retro body, they could just has easily have hired a Hercules and started shoving bales of money out over Iowa, for crying out loud. Those sub-$1000 cameras require a ton of volume to be viable at all, and there's nothing high volume about retro styling.


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## cosmonaut (Nov 4, 2013)

brian_f2.8 said:


> Id rather have a Leica M9.



 Not me the Nikon will no doubt have much better high ISO image quality. Probably better than the D4. It also will have affordable lenses and not cost an arm and a leg to get serviced if it needs it.


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## robbins.photo (Nov 4, 2013)

amolitor said:


> Nikon's not a bunch of idiots, there's gotta be some sort of a plan. I think the reto-loving hipster is pretty conscious of image quality, and might dig the "sensor from the D4" aspect of things, might even get on board the huffy "it's not just about megapixels" train. Maybe. I guess it's a good sensor?
> 
> The styling sucks, which might torpedo the whole thing.



I agree the ergonomics are awful - but my guess is that there may be a method in that madness as well.  For someone who does things in manual mode the odds of hitting a button or switch or dial that might mess with your settings is probably fairly high - but I wonder if your using the automated modes where a lot of those buttons or dials will do much of anything unless your in the right menu screen if that might not make a huge difference.


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## robbins.photo (Nov 4, 2013)

amolitor said:


> Cheap and retro-styled isn't a thing anyone else has tried, as far as I know. For excellent reasons.
> 
> Why on earth would Nikon want to attack a low volume, low margin market? If they wanted to try a sub $1000 DX retro body, they could just has easily have hired a Hercules and started shoving bales of money out over Iowa, for crying out loud. Those sub-$1000 cameras require a ton of volume to be viable at all, and there's nothing high volume about retro styling.



And even more importantly, it will be hitting the stores in time for the holiday shoppers.  Wife wants to get hubby camera for christmas (or vice versa), not an expert on cameras -that's the spouses deal, here's one with all bells and whistles, bam, sold.


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## brian_f2.8 (Nov 4, 2013)

cosmonaut said:


> Not me the Nikon will no doubt have much better high ISO image quality. Probably better than the D4. It also will have affordable lenses and not cost an arm and a leg to get serviced if it needs it.



I agree, but if you want to be different Leica is the way to go. The M9 is so much fun to play with.


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## Derrel (Nov 4, 2013)

amolitor said:
			
		

> The button/dial layout looks pretty much like the D4, which is itself a buttonfest, but then they threw 3-4 "retro style" dials on top.



I just counted: my D3x has 19 separate external buttons and or controls on the back of the camera, and 13 buttons or control on the front and top side. 19 + 13 is 32 external buttons and controls.

I just counted: my D2x has 19 separate external buttons or controls on the back of the camera, and 15 buttons or controls on the front and top side. 19 +15 is 34 external buttons and controls.

The new camera looks pretty simplified to me, but then I'm used to a D1,D1h,D2x,or D3x and have 13 years' experience with Nikon's pro d-slr bodies, and 31 years shooting Nikon...to me this new layout looks VERY much like the Nikon bodies I was shooting 30 years ago as a college photojournalist...it looks pretty simple, really.

Moving the ISO setting and the exposure compensation to external, top-deck dials is basically a simple reversion to the manual,mechanical input that Sony and Olympus are now using on some of their newest higher-end and "enthusiast" models. Using external, ALWAYS-visible control dials as opposed to nested, multi-level menus makes a camera simpler and more logical to adjust. One of the bigger issues on the pro Nikons has been too much menu-based hiding of important stuff. The newer cameras are almost infinitely customizable, and that's been done through menus. A separate, EXTERNAL, dedicated ISO button is something the pro Nikon bodies have always had (plus, ISO adjustment from within in the LCD menus is also an option on the flagships); the consumer Nikon bodies have used a menu-only system for ISO adjustment.

The idea that using a 5-page, 2- or 3-level menu system to make adjustments is somehow "easier" or "better" is a common mistake many newbs make. Beginners often see a P&S or entry-level d-slr and think that the lower the button count, the "easier" the camera will be to use for serious picture-taking. Unfortunately, that's not really true. Now, if you're coming from a Nikon D3200 like amolitor happens to be, the set of dedicated external buttons Nikon has decided to put on a pro-level type of camera might seem frightening. But really, the camera's main external buttons and controls all seem like single-purpose, dedicated controls. That makes the controls both easy to find, and predictable. At the opposite was one of Sony's first mirrorless cameras: it had no external ISO adjustment, and Michael Reichmann ridiculed Sony's design because the camera required 16 separate button presses to get to the ISO adjustment "screen" in the menu-based system.

I bet that before too long, this thing will be offered in a DX-sensor version for half price.


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## Derrel (Nov 4, 2013)

brian_f2.8 said:


> Think about a 24-70 or a 70-200 on the black n silver body. It's fugly. To use this body you need an older looking lens.
> I don't see the point.



Right Brian, and make sure the Nikon body you buy goes well with your favorite purse.


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## Patrice (Nov 4, 2013)

After seeing the photos in an earlier post I like the concept. I used an FM2 and a F4 for years and this new camera looks like something I'd like to use. I like external controls in the form of wheels and knobs that you can identify by touch and turn to set and look at to see what the setting is. Direct control of ISO with a knob on the surface of the body I think is brilliant. Shutter, aperture, ISO and exposure comp all immediately accessible, what's not to like?


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## amolitor (Nov 4, 2013)

It muck around with electronical things for a living, so it's not that buttons scare me.

It's just that the videos suggested something simple, "Pure Photography", retro, simple, basic. Just Pictures. I was envisioning something a lot more like my FE2, which actually has 100% of the controls you need to make pictures:

- Shutter speed/Mode dial
- ISO dial
- Exposure Comp dial
- Aperture dial (on lens, to be fair)

A minimalist menu system to control your AF and metering system modes, 3-4 buttons and that round navigation button thing (left, right, up, down, OK) whatever the call it.

Done.

This is a full-on semi-pro DSLR with a couple styling notes, not a Minimalist FE-style reversion to simplicity and Pure Photography.

The marketing and the camera are not well aligned, I think. The styling isn't aligned with the marketing or the camera, the camera isn't aligned with either the styling or the marketing. It all feels half-baked from my seat.


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## sashbar (Nov 4, 2013)

TheFantasticG said:


> Amazon.com: Nikon Df 16.2 MP CMOS FX-Format Digital SLR Camera Body (Silver): Electronics
> 
> Getcha one while they're hot



Looks like they have removed it.


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## cgw (Nov 4, 2013)

amolitor said:


> It's possible that this is a test.
> 
> Nikon, as cgw keeps pointing out to us, has a problem. The DSLR market is starting to shrink. More precisely, certain segments are clearly going to evaporate, and certain others are clearly not going to evaporate. Nikon's long term strategy has to be entirely driven by:
> 
> ...



Still think there's a case to be made for "commitment escalation" ensnaring Nikon, much as it did Blackberry/RIM whose narrow focus on product--not market--proved their undoing. Fuji's X-Pro 1 and X-E1/2 lured away not a few Nikon DX shooters. Friends who sell Nikon are sweating the holiday season. Online low-balling aside, they're also worried about scripting pitches for the D600/610, D7000/D7100, the Nikon 1 brood, and now this pricey new FX whose likely market can't afford it. That short-lived Amazon listing today with the Df's price killed the mood. It needs some stellar reviews which should be out quickly, assuming it's been in NDA signatories' hands for awhile.


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## Mach0 (Nov 4, 2013)

It looks cool but I'm all set.


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## robbins.photo (Nov 4, 2013)

cgw said:


> amolitor said:
> 
> 
> > It's possible that this is a test.
> ...



Well really this makes sense to me personally, though it's not a camera I would really want.  They have a fancy, full frame offering to put in stores for Christmas.  It has that "retro" look for the fashion conscious - it uses mostly off the shelf parts and tech that is tried and true and they have lying around so R&D wise pretty low cost for them, as a result and the price tag your looking at a fairly high profit margin.  Result, they don't have to fly off the shelves to make money, the per unit profit on these is going to be pretty significant for Nikon.  Then they also have their new D5300 to cover the entry level/prosumer market.  Again it uses mostly off the shelf, tried and true with very little to no R&D.  Not quite the price point as the full frame so not quite the unit per profit, but still respectable enough that it will be competitive with the other offers in it's class from other camera manufactures and again release just in time for the holiday shopping season.  

Face it guys, they know us camera geeks will buy a new pro model full frame replacement for the D800 or a new replacement for the D7100 any time of the year - they don't really need to focus on getting those on the shelves.  This is a total "What's new for Christmas" thing for the masses.


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## brian_f2.8 (Nov 4, 2013)

Derrel said:


> brian_f2.8 said:
> 
> 
> > Think about a 24-70 or a 70-200 on the black n silver body. It's fugly. To use this body you need an older looking lens.
> ...



I have to enjoy what Im shooting with. What lenses does Nikon expect people to use with this? The whole idea doesnt make sense.


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## robbins.photo (Nov 4, 2013)

brian_f2.8 said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> > brian_f2.8 said:
> ...



Well, again, don't think they are really marketing this toward the dedicated camera geek crowd, given the way the camera is designed.  This is more for the folks that will walk in to Best Buy or some camera store somewhere and buy it with the kit lens that comes with it, and will probably not buy more lenses for it after the fact - at least not in large quantity.  In fact the vast majority of these will get used maybe once or twice and then get shoved in a bag in the closet somewhere.


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## PhotoWrangler (Nov 4, 2013)

I think it's gorgeous! But then again my 1977 FM is one of my prized possessions too.

I'm not rushing to dump my D700 or anything, but if I ever run across an extra $2500, watch out!


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## robbins.photo (Nov 4, 2013)

brian_f2.8 said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> > brian_f2.8 said:
> ...



Well I like my D5100, most likely I'll look at getting myself a d7000 or d7100 as my Christmas present to myself - just have to see where the budget is at that point.  Only problem is they really don't match my purse.  Sigh.


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## brian_f2.8 (Nov 5, 2013)

If it doesn't match your purse get a new one. If you can't figure out that a camera would look stupid with an inappropriate lens then you have a lot to learn. 

As mentioned before, put the aperture settings on the lens barrel then it's retro. Total poser camera


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## PhotoWrangler (Nov 5, 2013)

Judging a tool solely on its looks speaks wonders about ones skill set.


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## brian_f2.8 (Nov 5, 2013)

I agree but you can't have a retro camera with a modern lens. Why is that so hard to understand? We are photographers, doesn't anyone pay attention to detail? It's the principle here.


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## brian_f2.8 (Nov 5, 2013)

It's another bullet for my dislikes category among many other things. Epic fail on Nikon.


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## tevo (Nov 5, 2013)

$2800

Nikon Df D-SLR Camera | Classic Nikon SLR Styling, Modern Digital SLR Features Inside

N:lmao:T HAPPENING!


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## PhotoWrangler (Nov 5, 2013)

brian_f2.8 said:


> I agree but you can't have a retro camera with a modern lens. Why is that so hard to understand? We are photographers, doesn't anyone pay attention to detail? It's the principle here.




No. I don't create images based on what my camera looks like.


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## tevo (Nov 5, 2013)

brian_f2.8 said:


> I agree but you can't have a retro camera with a modern lens. Why is that so hard to understand? We are photographers, doesn't anyone pay attention to detail? It's the principle here.



So am I not allowed to use my 300 2.8D with my FM or F3 then? It seems to work just fine, and the film develops just as it normally would.


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## PhotoWrangler (Nov 5, 2013)

tevo said:


> So am I not allowed to use my 300 2.8D with my FM or F3 then? It seems to work just fine, and the film develops just as it normally would.




Well of course not. The cameras looks are more important than the photograph your making. Silly you.


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## TheFantasticG (Nov 5, 2013)

Hmmm. Price killed it for me as there is no 51 pt AF. They would have to buffed the 39 to act exactly like the 51 to get my interest back.



brian_f2.8 said:


> I agree but you can't have a retro camera with a modern lens. Why is that so hard to understand? We are photographers, doesn't anyone pay attention to detail? It's the principle here.



Can't tell if serious...


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## Dinardy (Nov 5, 2013)

It will be interesting to see how sales play out. 

This body looks great. But like others I would prefer a modern body with enhanced ergonomics.


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## TheFantasticG (Nov 5, 2013)

Honestly, I like everything about the physical controls. I would have liked the addition of a flash, wifi/gps, and 51 pt AF (not to mention my D7000 does 1/8000 -- but that's not a deal killer). I would have pre ordered one risking my health with my other half. Would have sold a bunch of stuff cluttering up my study for it. But, alas, not gonna do it. I will wait for one of the modern Nikon bodies to have 95% of the features I want.


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## amolitor (Nov 5, 2013)

What are you on about, PhotoWrangler? Nobody here's saying that they're not going to buy it because it's ugly. You have erected a straw man, well done.


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## robbins.photo (Nov 5, 2013)

tevo said:


> brian_f2.8 said:
> 
> 
> > I agree but you can't have a retro camera with a modern lens. Why is that so hard to understand? We are photographers, doesn't anyone pay attention to detail? It's the principle here.
> ...



Well your allowed of course, no law against it.  However you probably should be forewarned that the beatniks down at the coffee house will probably treat you with disdain as a result.

"Oh here he comes again, showing off that big lens of his!  I wonder what he's compensating for!"  - Lol

Seriously though, I get where Nikon is coming from with this - it's all about the marketing and frankly I think from that aspect this camera will be a winner for them.  I actually like the dial design from what I've seen in the pictures, would be nice to have the ability to set ISO and Shutter speed from independent dials on the top.  I doubt the camera itself would be terribly practical for me, at least not at the price point they've set it at, but I understand Nikon really didn't design or build this camera with me in mind.  They are after a different market.


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## robbins.photo (Nov 5, 2013)

Dinardy said:


> It will be interesting to see how sales play out.
> 
> This body looks great. But like others I would prefer a modern body with enhanced ergonomics.



My guess is you'll most likely see that after Christmas Dinardy.  If I'm reading this correctly this is Nikon's offering for the masses for the Christmas shopping season, well this and the D5300, so they have something new and cool on the shelves for Christmas time.  They'll get around to releasing something marketed for us camera geeks after that.  Makes a certain amount sense, I mean they know we'll buy no matter what time of year it is, and nothing would boost those Jan-Feb sales numbers like a new offering or two designed to replace the D800 or the D7100 or perhaps both lines will see an upgrade.


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## brian_f2.8 (Nov 5, 2013)

TheFantasticG said:


> Hmmm. Price killed it for me as there is no 51 pt AF. They would have to buffed the 39 to act exactly like the 51 to get my interest back.  Can't tell if serious...



I'm being scarcastic but some people are so sensitive on this forum. Get off this forum join match.com n go get some.


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## amolitor (Nov 5, 2013)

What makes this interesting is that Nikon didn't just jam some cheap guts into the thing. It's not merely a cynical money grab.

If they wanted to just soak the hipsters, they could have crammed the D3200's guts into an FE2 styled body, chopped out a bunch of features, and sold it for $3000 just as easily. Maybe peel the AA filter off the sensor or something, just to mix it up a bit. Write a little software to make the B&W modes fancier. The result would have been smaller and lighter and more like an actual retro camera, AND it would have had more megapixels, AND the margins would be way higher. AND it would totally play into the hipster market. Or they could have retro-ed a Nikon 1, or used some Coolpix guts, or whatever.

This seems to be a stripped down D4, which is a bunch of viciously expensive parts, crammed into a retro-styled DSLR body. It ain't gonna win any beauty contests, but it's got a lot of professional bits and pieces going on. I'm not sure WHO the hell is supposed to buy this thing, but it's pretty interesting.

The more I look at it and think about it, the more I think it's an experiment to see what Nikon might be in 10 years. I think it's an experiment that got cost-cut and committeed pretty thoroughly, so it's no longer clear what the point was. But there's somethin' going on here beyond a cynical money grab.

Derrel's definitely on to something with the 'compatible with all the lenses ever' they're already plugging that on the web site. But who has $3000 to drop on a camera, AND cares about being able to use AI lenses?


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## robbins.photo (Nov 5, 2013)

brian_f2.8 said:


> TheFantasticG said:
> 
> 
> > Hmmm. Price killed it for me as there is no 51 pt AF. They would have to buffed the 39 to act exactly like the 51 to get my interest back.  Can't tell if serious...
> ...



Sarcasm?  No, this is being hit over the head lessons in here.  Sarcasm is down the hall.


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## robbins.photo (Nov 5, 2013)

amolitor said:


> What makes this interesting is that Nikon didn't just jam some cheap guts into the thing. It's not merely a cynical money grab.
> 
> If they wanted to just soak the hipsters, they could have crammed the D3200's guts into an FE2 styled body, chopped out a bunch of features, and sold it for $3000 just as easily. Maybe peel the AA filter off the sensor or something, just to mix it up a bit. Write a little software to make the B&W modes fancier. The result would have been smaller and lighter and more like an actual retro camera, AND it would have had more megapixels, AND the margins would be way higher. AND it would totally play into the hipster market. Or they could have retro-ed a Nikon 1, or used some Coolpix guts, or whatever.
> 
> ...



Cyncial money grab.  Hmm.. man, you say that like it's a bad thing... lol.  From a marketing standpoint it makes sense to me that they wouldn't put this together as a "low end" camera, it's not the market they are after for Christmas sales.  They've already released the D5300 for the more entry-level offering.

They aren't really after us camera geeks with this one, this is for the folks that have money to spend this Christmas and they are going to buy it based on the "latest and greatest" theorem.  The people this is being marketed too don't know enough about cameras to know any different.  Sadly I can tell you from experience that this is a much larger part of the market than you might imagine.  As I think I mentioned in an earlier posting I spend a lot of time at the zoo - and if I had a dime for every time I ran across someone with $3000 to $5000 worth of high end equipment that was shooting in auto mode and had absolutely no idea what they were doing I'd be rich enough to afford this camera and quite a few others.

I'll have to go back and read Derrel's commentary to be sure what your referencing there, but if I were Nikon and I'd come up with a way to have the camera be compatible with all the older lenses I think it would make a certain amount of sense to test that on the marketplace with a camera like this one.  

As for the point, well the point of this was to make Nikon money.  I think in that regard it will most likely succeed.


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## robbins.photo (Nov 5, 2013)

Derrel said:


> amolitor said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



See, now I'm stuck with a mental image of you taking out each camera, counting all the dials and buttons and yelling AHA! when your done with each one.. lol

I rather liked the dial arrangement, would like to see that or a version of it introduced in other models.  If they do get around to releasing a DX version and I wait long enough that I can find one used that might be of interest to me, It wouldn't replace my current DSLR but I can think of some situations in which it might come in handy.  At the moment the price puts it way out of my reach though, if I were going to spend that kind of money on a camera it wouldn't be this one.  I get where Nikon is coming from though, I think sales wise this will be a hit for them.  I don't see this flying off the shelves mind you, but considering the profit margin they are looking at per unit it really doesn't need too go like gangbusters.


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## sleist (Nov 5, 2013)

This _*is*_ a D700 replacement from a situational perspective.  It's a $3K camera body (less actually) with the D4 processor just like the D700 was wrt the D3.
Whether or not a current D700 owner would see this as a replacement for their camera depends on a lot of things.
I have no plans to replace my D700 with this because, for my needs today, it would be a poor use of $3000.

On the other hand, if my D700 died tomorrow, which Nikon FX body would I choose to replace it?  I have no idea - maybe none.
Hopefully I won't need to find out.


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## runnah (Nov 5, 2013)

Really at the end of the day the 5d MkIII and the D800 are in the same price bracket and that just kills it for me.


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## cgw (Nov 5, 2013)

Still think the DPreview crew has it right:

"As such, although I hate to say it: from a cold, hard practical point of view, I can't shake the feeling that the Df is a little bit... *silly*."


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## TheLost (Nov 5, 2013)

I'm not going to buy it.... but.... I like it!  

I like the dials..  I like the silver/black..  I like the idea that they are pushing (hard) "pure photography".  But then i learned photography shooting B&W film on a manual K1000 and developing/printing in my moms basement when i was a kid.   The Df wakes up some part of my past where photography was more analog.

But...  the 1/4000s shutter is a deal breaker for me.

Unless...  The Df pulls a Nikon V1 and drops in 80% in price over the next 8 months


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## robbins.photo (Nov 5, 2013)

cgw said:


> Still think the DPreview crew has it right:
> 
> "As such, although I hate to say it: from a cold, hard practical point of view, I can't shake the feeling that the Df is a little bit... *silly*."



From a camera geek's point of view? Yup. From a marketing standpoint though, I have to admit it makes perfect sense. I expect that come January or early Feburary they'll announce an upgrade to the 7100 and maybe follow that up with something meant to replace the D800 a little while later, so they can get a strong first quarter going.

I'd also suspect that by then the price on the DF will most likely drop significantly, they really don't have a high cost per unit here because there's pretty much zero R&D costs and most of the parts are straight off the shelf. They'll keep the price high through Christmas because a lot of folks honestly believe that more expensive it is better it must be regardless of the facts, and they'll use the D5300 to leverage the entry DSLR sales for the silly season.

Then once they reach the point where they feel like they've gotten all they can out of the "high dollar is always better" crowd they'll most likely drop the price on these pretty hard.


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