# New, Need advice about copywrite issues with client



## MomPhotogof3 (Jan 6, 2012)

**note just realized i spelled "copyright" wrong.. stupid auto correct!** .. I have done quite a few weddings, although still fairly new to the industry. All my clients are made aware of that fact. I have had a recent client who was a joy to work with, she was polite and funny, and her family was warm and welcoming! This girl, lets call her Jane, was given a contract before her wedding and was also told verbally that she "could not copy, alter to reproduce her images in any way" although she could "tag her self on facebook, and use images with copyright info on her site". After her wedding she decided she wanted to buy a image DVD. Great right?! Not really, i printed out a page that gave her ONLY printing rights, it stated very plainly in B&W that she was ONLY to print the images and no editing or cropping was allowed. Also, that if she was posting them to facebook there needed to be a photo credit under he posting. This girl is UNREAL! She is taking them from the site, posting them to hers, not crediting my work, editing her files. HOW do I approach this without sounding completely rude? Her wedding was a disaster, her cousin died in a car accident the night before, and the dj, who was a close friend, just a few weeks ago. With that being said, i want to be firm, not rude. But im at a loss, this has never happened in 3 years!


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## Big Mike (Jan 6, 2012)

Welcome to the forum.

Have you tried contacting her via phone or E-mail and just 'reminding' her about the contact etc.?  
E-mail might be preferable as it's not so confrontational and it's easy to track and record.

If that doesn't work, then a cease and desist letter from a lawyer might get the result you want.


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## JoeyV (Jan 6, 2012)

The first question you need to ask yourself is: Does it really bother you THAT much? If your willing to spend money on a lawyer to get this sorted out then obviously it does. But if you can just shrug it off....then there's no point in getting riled up about it.

Is she claiming to be the author/owner of these pictures on her site? Or simply cropping them and posting them to a blog or something of the sort?


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## iresq (Jan 6, 2012)

As Joey said.  I know people like to throw the 'get a lawyer' advise around.  But the bottom line question really is, "Is it worth it?"  As Big Mike suggested, a simple email outlining the agreement would be a good place to start.


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## Robin Usagani (Jan 6, 2012)

1. Always add your copyright info in the exif data.  It will automatically added to the title of the photo on facebook (client can still delete it, but they wont forget).
2. If it goes to facebook, it will get cropped.  They will use it as their profile photo.  It doesnt bother me at all.
3. The only thing that bothers me is editing the photo.  Just ask them nicely not to do that.


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## o hey tyler (Jan 6, 2012)

JoeyV said:


> The first question you need to ask yourself is: Does it really bother you THAT much? If your willing to spend money on a lawyer to get this sorted out then obviously it does. But if you can just shrug it off....then there's no point in getting riled up about it.
> 
> Is she claiming to be the author/owner of these pictures on her site? Or simply cropping them and posting them to a blog or something of the sort?



Breaking copyright laws is a very serious offense, and you'd be an idiot to not get pissed off about someone stealing, modifying, or in some other way infringing on your copyright. 

But, I suppose if you were an entry level photographer/hobbyist, it wouldn't be such a big deal.


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## JoeyV (Jan 6, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


> JoeyV said:
> 
> 
> > The first question you need to ask yourself is: Does it really bother you THAT much? If your willing to spend money on a lawyer to get this sorted out then obviously it does. But if you can just shrug it off....then there's no point in getting riled up about it.
> ...



I'm going to overlook the fact that you essentially called me an idiot and respond politely.

Breaking laws is serious, no matter what law it is. Everyone knows that. But I was pointing out that if she did it for her personal blog or facebook page, then there really isn't anything to get mad about. I would see it as an issue if she were claiming ownership of the pictures or making profit from the edited images. Since this is not disclosed, I asked if it was really something worth getting upset at.

As far as I'm concerned, any image that can be found online is essentially giving others permission to copy/download/play with it. Once it has been modified, it is no longer the same image and copyright no longer applies. However, in this case, it's more a case of breach of confidence by editing the images after promising not to rather than actual copyright infringement.


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## o hey tyler (Jan 6, 2012)

JoeyV said:


> o hey tyler said:
> 
> 
> > JoeyV said:
> ...



Maybe things are different in Canada... But photographers have to be vigilant when defending copyrights they own. If you don't want to, that's fine. You'll probably get walked all over in the event that it happens to you. I've had someone download, and modify my image and re-upload it to facebook to THEIR OWN photography page. Regardless of "who" downloads the image and makes changes to it, I STILL OWN THE COPYRIGHT. I set up the shot, posed the subject, and actuated the shutter. It's MINE. So I filed an DMCA claim on facebook and had the photo they posted removed quite promptly. 

You're missing the fact that the OP had them SIGN A FREAKIN' CONTRACT, she has every right, and every motivation to contact a lawyer and get them to send a cease and desist letter. That's the PURPOSE of a contract, so that you don't get walked on by clients! It protects YOURSELF as the PHOTOGRAPHER. 

If you let one instance of copyright infringement slide, as small as it may be, it could come back and haunt you for the rest of you career. You're doing a disservice to yourself to not protect yourself from copyright infringement. 

Lets put it this way, is downloading a copyrighted album off of a torrent site stealing? Well, yes it is. Is downloading a copyrighted image stealing? Yes, it falls under the same umbrella. 

I know you're probably new to photography, so you may not have the same view as I do.


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## tirediron (Jan 6, 2012)

JoeyV said:


> ...I was pointing out that if she did it for her personal blog or facebook page, then there really isn't anything to get mad about.


That's a personal thought.  The bottom line, this violates the license granted to her by the photographer.



JoeyV said:


> I would see it as an issue if she were claiming ownership of the pictures or making profit from the edited images. Since this is not disclosed, I asked if it was really something worth getting upset at.


I agree that if the images were being used for commercial gain, it would elevate it to another level of "wrong" however it's a contract violation and it should be addressed.  Does the OP need to get mad?  No; the simple fact is, most people don't pay attention to what's written in a contract.  Even if they do, they usually think, "Oh, they're my photos, that doesn't apply to me!".  It's our job as photographers to ensure that the message gets out there that this is NOT right.  Personally, I would not be terribly upset if it was all for personal use, but I would definitely send a polite e-mail reminding her of the terms of her contract.



JoeyV said:


> As far as I'm concerned, any image that can be found online is essentially giving others permission to copy/download/play with it. Once it has been modified, it is no longer the same image and copyright no longer applies. ...


Okay, you need to go and review your copyright law, and fast!


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## tirediron (Jan 6, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


> ...Maybe things are different in Canada...


Not that different Tyler!


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## KmH (Jan 6, 2012)

JoeyV said:


> As far as I'm concerned, any image that can be found online is essentially giving others permission to copy/download/play with it. Once it has been modified, it is no longer the same image and copyright no longer applies.


Are you by chance a professional criminal? 

In another thread you advocate copyright infringement of software. Here you are saying you interprit copyright laws in whatever way suits you, and to hell with what the laws actually say.


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## JoeyV (Jan 6, 2012)

Last post ever on this forum:

It's the internet people. NOTHING belongs to anyone once it's online....None of you seem to have the ability to read or understand what you're reading. So I'm done with this forum. Get the sticks out of your asses, and come down off the high horses you think you're on. My comments are realistic reflections of what happens in the real world...not just the little fantasies in your heads. "right-click-> save" is a function available on all computers AFAIK and your pictures are not "safe" if they are online...regardless of if you put a little c in a circle on it.

I did not advocate anything in the other thread. I stated a fact and you all interpreted it wrongly (Much like if I said grass is green, you would accuse me of saying it's not red....2 different things). Take my comment to a lawyer and see if you can hold anything to it. I choose my words carefully when I talk...so please, take note of these last ones: **** you.


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## tirediron (Jan 6, 2012)

Wow... there's a real loss to the TPF community!!!


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## tirediron (Jan 6, 2012)

JoeyV said:


> Last post ever on this forum:


Thank-you!

To clarify a few things for others who made read this:



JoeyV said:


> It's the internet people. NOTHING belongs to anyone once it's online....


Sorry, that's wrong!  Posting something on line (unless indicated otherwise in the host-site's EULA does NOT transfer any sort of ownership or rights.



JoeyV said:


> So I'm done with this forum.


Again, thank-you!



JoeyV said:


> My comments are realistic reflections of what happens in the real world...


Perhaps, but that doesn't make them right and is no reason not to try and prevent them.



JoeyV said:


> "right-click-> save" is a function available on all computers AFAIK


Easily disabled



JoeyV said:


> and your pictures are not "safe" if they are online...regardless of if you put a little c in a circle on it.


110% true!


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## o hey tyler (Jan 6, 2012)

JoeyV said:


> Last post ever on this forum:



...and nothing of value was lost.


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## etnad0 (Jan 7, 2012)

JoeyV said:


> "right-click-> save" is a function available on all computers AFAIK
> Easily disabled



My only input is that even if you disable right click, there is a way around it. You need a script to disable the right click. EVERY browser has an option to turn off all scripts running on any website. It's a security measure to prevent potential viruses from running. The majority of people probably don't use the feature, but it's available. There is no way to stop people who are determined to get something from your site. There is also a little program called Camtasia (I think I spelled that right) or the PrntScrn button that will let me do the same thing.


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## GooniesNeverSayDie11 (Jan 7, 2012)

As someone else states, make sure that you put your copyright in the metadata so that it comes up on Facebook when uploaded. Also, I would politely email the person and remind them of the agreement. Request that they remove the photos that violate the agreement. If they do not, follow up with a cease and desist letter, and follow that up with a call to a lawyer. You did good by spelling all of this out in the initial contract, so you have all of the power in this situation. 

The only downside would be the bad publicity that this person will give you. She surely will disparage you to everyone she knows and spin the story to make herself the victim. However, the damage being done by people seeing your work butchered by their editing is surely doing you more harm.

The key is to be polite. Take everything in steps. She may understand and comply right away. If not, increase the intensity of your request/demand.


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## MomPhotogof3 (Jan 7, 2012)

Thank you (almost) everyone for your input! I really appreciate it. Unfortunately when I very politely told her that she needed to take the photo down, and tag/link the rest of them, she got extremely defensive. She stated "she did not know it was wrong and would upset me", and that "she just wanted a little variety". Although she has already received 3 variations of that exact photo. SO, that being said, fortunately for me my contract states that "any misuse as outline in the contract will result in a $300.00 per image/use penatly". I have proof of her editing my image, and although she has told me she has taken it down, I do not take image theft and manipulation lightly. I will be mailing her a bill, that if not paid promptly will result in a cease and desist order. I had an image stolen from my page about 2 years ago of my son, that was passed off as another's work, since then, I am VERY strict with my copyright. And even my family has had tough times printing my photos without permission, thanks to the lovely embedded exif data.  Thank you all again, I really appreciate your help!


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## tirediron (Jan 7, 2012)

Good luck- please let us know how it progresses!


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