# Equipment for first studio set-up.



## geaclaesson (Jul 30, 2012)

*Edit: Skip this first post and look at the last posts.*



_Hey guys.

Been browsing the forum some before posting this, so I've already taken part of some of your great suggestions.
Someone here (or a few) have suggested the "Flashpoint II 320M Monolight Kit, 150 Watt Second, One Monolight Kit with 9.5' Black Light Stand and 24" x 36" Softbox" as a start up investment. 
Since I'm on a reaaally tight budget I'm trying to find alternatives where I could get more units without exceeding $350 for the strobes with stands.  There are some alternatives on eBay but I also don't want utter rubbish.
(Flash Kit 540w Photography Studio Strobe Light Umbrella Softbox | eBay)  Also, what's best; umbrella or softbox? I was convinced of the latter until I called Adorama today that promoted umbrellas.

I come from a TV background where three point lighting is the way to go.. what's the take on that in studio photography?

Ok, so I'm not going to overwhelm with questions.. but I would really appreciate you guys' answers.

/Andreas_


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## tirediron (Jul 30, 2012)

First:  For you budget, you may want to consider something like the old Sunpak 300 and 500 series speedlights.  These can be found used for $50-75, have a very healthy GN (up to 150) making them excellent for small studio work, and also have AC adaptors.  As far as the SB/umbrella question, it's really apples and oranges.  Personally, I prefer a SB for most work - I have a 60" brolly-box that makes a wonderful fill light, but umbrellas work as well.  If you can get just one, I would opt for a convertible umbrella (that is one with a removable black outer skin so that it will work as either shoot-through or reflective).  

That kit you've linked to looks like junk to me.  I would suggest saving money and doing without before buying something like that will likely be defective out of the box.

Still photographic lighting is all about the final product - you can do fantastic portraits with one light or five lights.  There is no 'one' formula.


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## geaclaesson (Jul 31, 2012)

Ok, thanks for your reply..  I've pretty much built up a cart of stuff now...  Before I order...  Would there be a problem in mixing the light from a soft box and that from a umbrella set up?


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## jamesbjenkins (Jul 31, 2012)

OP,

To second what John has told you, I'd strongly recommend saving your money until you can afford something other than one of those "kits" on Amazon like the one you mentioned. 100% are garbage. Whether they crap out on you two weeks from now, or a couple months down the road, you won't get your money's worth.

Finding used flash guns like the SunPak, or other used options may be your best bet, but there's always an element of risk with used equipment as well.

As for the softbox/umbrella question, it really depends on the application. I use both, depending on the situation. Unless you have a higher quality option (Paul C. Buff, Lastolite, etc.) I wouldn't recommend the softbox, as the cheap ones are a huge pain to setup and tear down on location.


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## kundalini (Jul 31, 2012)

geaclaesson said:


> I come from a TV background where three point lighting is the way to go.. what's the take on that in studio photography?


Three is a good start, but even better is ONE.  Learn to use one light effectively, then build on that experience.  No need to over-complicate a complicated field in the early stages.

But FWIW, five lights are typical.  Main, Fill, Background, Accent (Kicker) and Hair.   *Tutorial: Basic Studio Lighting*


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## geaclaesson (Aug 3, 2012)

Thanks for your replies! When I said three point lighting, I was thinking of the subject.. not the background.. kinda forgot to mention that   I read up on most of the Strobist Lighting 101 and I'm blown away by what one can do with only one flash.. Looked at the thread with Flashpoint 620 which really looks like a good alternative for me.. so I'm really looking forward to experimenting with strobe photography!! Excited!  Now all I need is to finally set on the equipment..


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## geaclaesson (Aug 4, 2012)

Ok, posting my list before I'll order it. Goal is to start up get some skills, and then later on maybe go further with it.

Flashpoint II 620M, 300 Watt Second AC / DC Monolight Strobe. (D/C Operation Requires FP2PPN Battery Pack) - $189.95
Adorama 60" White Interior Umbrella with Removeable Black Cover. 16 rib Parabolic -$34.95
Westcott 45" Optical White Satin Umbrella with Removable Black Cover -$29.90
Adorama Universal Swivel Holder - Umbrella Bracket with Adjutsable Flash Mount -$15.25
Smith Victor PGHSPC Hot Shoe to PC Adapter -$14.50
PBL Light Stands PRO Heavy Duty 7'6" SET Carry Bags of Two, All Metal Locking Collars Not Plastic by PBL -$59.95

I have a Nikon Speedlight SB-800, that's why I've included an extra stand a.s.o.

* Would LOVE you guys' feedback, please comment if you see something that you think is off or if you would have chosen some other gear instead (within a $400 budget).*


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## 2WheelPhoto (Aug 4, 2012)

If you shop ebay get used Elinchrom or Profoto on the higher end, and flashpoint or alien bees or such on the low end over the *chinese crap* being offered


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## MLeeK (Aug 4, 2012)

geaclaesson said:


> Hey guys.
> 
> Been browsing the forum some before posting this, so I've already taken part of some of your great suggestions.
> Someone here (or a few) have suggested the "Flashpoint II 320M Monolight Kit, 150 Watt Second, One Monolight Kit with 9.5' Black Light Stand and 24" x 36" Softbox" as a start up investment.
> ...



The flashpoints are very solid and well reviewed in the budget range. 
The ebay kit you post is a TOTAL of 540W between the strobes. The bulbs are not user changeable unless you want to take them apart and solder things back together. They are disposable. The extras that come with them will not fit a standard strobe, so they won't serve you for anything down the line besides the cheapies. 

I have a couple of the flashpoints and they are really an excellent budget alternative. I use them with my WhiteLightning setup and I am shocked at how they perform along with them. 

I much prefer softboxes. Preferably one large and one strip/narrow that allows me to control the feathering of light.


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## Derrel (Aug 4, 2012)

I'd consider going with TWO of the the lower-powered 320M, 150 Watt-second studio monolights, for only an extra $10 over the cost of one 620M. ALso, the swivel bracket...I assume that is for a battery-powered speedlight that you plan to throw into the lighting mix? It's not needed unless you have a speedlight, since the monolights have an umbrella mount and swivel built-in.

My experience with *my* 300 W-s monolight is that, for the majority of simple indoor shots, it is TOO powerful with a Nikon that has a base ISO rating of ISO 200...it gets used cranked alllll the way DOWN to MIN. power much of the time...so...I would rather have two, 150 Watt-second units than ONE 300 W-s unit. MUCH of the time, my problem these days is TOO MUCH flash power, not like in the old days, where we shot on ISO 64 film. If you have a Canon that goes down to ISO 50 as its base, like the original 5D, that is another matter...that lowl-low-low I:SO capability gives good dynamic range AND allows one to use the upper-level power settings more often, at the kind of f/stops one wishes to use in typical studio shooting.


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## geaclaesson (Aug 4, 2012)

Derrel said:


> My experience with *my* 300 W-s monolight is that, for the majority of simple indoor shots, it is TOO powerful with a Nikon that has a base ISO rating of ISO 200...it gets used cranked alllll the way DOWN to MIN. power much of the time...so...I would rather have two, 150 Watt-second units than ONE 300 W-s unit.



My thoughts were that I would buy a more powerful unit so that when or if I choose to do family portraits on location I could use it for that as well. I would use my Nikon Speedlight SB-800 for the other stand and that way I'd at least have a key light (Flashpoint II 620M) and a fill light (my Speedlight)..

Are the smaller Flashpoints (320) powerful enough for family size portraits?


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## MLeeK (Aug 4, 2012)

You'll need two units if you are doing family portraits and you won't be needing a lot of power. I rarely even use a full strobe for family portraits. I use mostly speedlites. 
If you are using one unit you are then contending with a shadow issue and have to fidget and play for positioning with the light and a reflector hoping that it gets into the nooks and crannies of families. RARELY will you use full power on the 620 and most often you will be at minimal power. If you were using full power you'd need to be shooting in the dark and frankly it's still going to overpower part of your subjects to blown out and create a heavy shadow to the opposite side. It's possible that down the line you'll do a family of 30+ people and need all of that power, but... you'd still need multiple units anyway so that one high powered unit isn't going to do it. 
You will rarely use full power on two 150WPS units. It just makes more sense to have two basic units.

Two of the 320's are plenty power for an average to large family portrait. I used one unit about the same output as the FP320 with one speedlite to light a family of eleven recently. My Strobe was at minimal power. Granted I was in good light overall and only needed it to illuminate the family enough not to blow out the sky. If I were inside I'd probably have needed 1/2 to 3/4 power on the strobe.


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## MLeeK (Aug 4, 2012)

I looked. The WL I used is actually less power output than the FP at 130WPS


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## geaclaesson (Aug 4, 2012)

MLeeK said:


> You'll need two units if you are doing family portraits and you won't be needing a lot of power. I rarely even use a full strobe for family portraits. I use mostly speedlites.
> If you are using one unit you are then contending with a shadow issue and have to fidget and play for positioning with the light and a reflector hoping that it gets into the nooks and crannies of families.



Right, but the thought was never to just use the 620 rather the 620 PLUS my Nikon Speedlight..

So you would say that 2 x the 320 will be sufficient? Cool


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## MLeeK (Aug 4, 2012)

I think it's a smarter move. I have RARELY if ever found a need for more power than my WL5000's which are 130WPS. I rarely even pull those out anymore. I use speedlites for everything. Much easier to lug around. I have I think 4 now and a bunch of older flash guns that were cheap as hell that I can pop on a stand should I need even more. 
I used to lug gear. I got over it. As it is I am lugging a ton of weight and a rolling case. I dropped a good 30+LBS when I stopped using strobes on location.  
I have one GOOD speedlight (your nikon) a Sigma and several Yongnuo's. I can light up damn near anything. 
The only time I have used my bigger strobes at their full power is when shooting in an arena and I had them mounted in the ceiling on opposite ends for a tournament. Now I don't even do that. I shoot with a speedlite on either side of the mat for that tournament and get the same result. 
If you were going to light up vehicles or some extreme stuff then you'd need the power, but in all honesty for what you say you'll be doing it's just overkill. And you may well find that a 620 on it's lowest power is just too much for a lot of small family portraits. Then what? You're reduced to the speedlite and balancing a reflector. 
I am usually a fan of buying higher power. Much the same thought as you are presenting: You can't squeeze more if the lower power isn't enough. I just don't see a need for it in basic family portraiture. Hell, when I do team portraits of the entire football team I am only using 3-5 speedlights and having higher power wouldn't help me. It'd give me over lit subjects on one side and underexposed on the opposite. 
Derrel can put it into better technical terms for you if you want. He's much better with that kind of explanation than I am.

I guess it's a toss up. If you are worried, buy the higher power light. You can always back it off or filter it or use an bounce umbrella to tone it down. There are definitely ways!


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## geaclaesson (Aug 4, 2012)

MLeeK said:


> Derrel can put it into better technical terms for you if you want. He's much better with that kind of explanation than I am.



I think you pretty much made it crystal clear. I understood perfectly what you were saying. :thumbup:


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