# Bulk loading question



## smerchant (May 20, 2013)

I know the whole saying about no stupid questions but this one is probably going to sound like a bit of a stupid question. Should black and white film be stored in the darker film canisters or can the clearer ones that are used for color film be used without causing any damage or potential fogging? New to bulk loading and asked for a bunch of canisters from a one-hour place and the were very few of the opaque canisters and mostly the clear ones. Thanks.


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## bsinmich (May 20, 2013)

If you have good film cartridges it makes no differrence what the containers are in.  The only thing to be aware of is the felt light trap on every 35mm cartridge will eventually wear out and let a little light in.  Unless you are using some very high speed film this won't be a problem very soon.  If your camera has auto film speed setting from the cartridge DX coding you will need cartridges that are coded.  If you don't have that you set your own ASA speed on the meter.  I have a couple (4)  bulk loaders I no longer use.  I kept one for each speed I used.


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## Light Guru (May 20, 2013)

smerchant said:


> I know the whole saying about no stupid questions but this one is probably going to sound like a bit of a stupid question. Should black and white film be stored in the darker film canisters or can the clearer ones that are used for color film be used without causing any damage or potential fogging? New to bulk loading and asked for a bunch of canisters from a one-hour place and the were very few of the opaque canisters and mostly the clear ones. Thanks.



It does not matter. You do not even need to keep the film in them if you don't want to.  The metal canister is where all the light tight stuff happens. 

Think about it, if you had to keep rolls of film in black plastic containers then you would not be able to load a roll of film into your camera unless you were in the dark.


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## smerchant (May 20, 2013)

Thank you so much. I didn't think it would matter but I started noticing that all my B&W film came in the opaque canisters and the color came in the semi-transparent so it made me start to question. Starting to get stuff ready for a trip later this year and really don't want to leave anything to chance. Thank you again!


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## Derrel (May 20, 2013)

There is a thing called "light piping", where bright light can penetrate in to the emulsion and travel into the emulsion and down the film's length and into the film inside the lips of the cartridge. At least according to an article I read some years back in  one of the photo magazines. I personally have never,ever encountered light piping, but then again...I've never encountered a water buffalo, and I know those exist...and I would think that any light would only be able to go just a very short distance before it would eventually dissipate into nothing.


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## Josh66 (May 22, 2013)

Light Guru said:


> Think about it, if you had to keep rolls of  film in black plastic containers then you would not be able to load a  roll of film into your camera unless you were in the dark.




Even though you don't really need to keep your film in the plastic containers - I still would.  It will keep the felt clean.



Derrel said:


> There is a thing called "light piping", where bright light can penetrate in to the emulsion and travel into the emulsion and down the film's length and into the film inside the lips of the cartridge. At least according to an article I read some years back in  one of the photo magazines.



I 'think' I've encountered this before.  Maybe.  If not, I don't know what the actual problem is.  On 120 Rollei Retro 400S, if I don't load and unload the film in total darkness that half of the film is always fogged.  I've tried loading in darkness then unloading in 'subdued light' - and vise versa.  The side that was not in total darkness while the back was open is always fogged (the fogging extends maybe 1/3 to 2/5 the length of the film - if it's only on one side)...  The roll is always tight, and this is the only film I have this problem with.  (It's annoying, because I kinda like that film, lol.  I just have to remember to bring my changing bag with me whenever I'm shooting it - which is probably a good idea to just do all the time anyway...)

I think the film is basically acting as a fiber optic cable.  That's the only way 'light piping' makes sense to me, since that is exactly how fiber optic cables work...


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## Derrel (May 22, 2013)

You might well be onto something Josh...a user here reports light piping problems with the Rollei Retro and Also an Agfa film on a PET base...

Flickr: Discussing Rollei Retro 80S 100' Bulk: Light piping problems? in Maco and Rollei Film Users

Other users seem to indicate problems with the Retro film as well when bulk loading....seems as if that film is prone to light piping problems. And yeah...kinda like a fiber optic cable...same process I guess.

Your tip about keeping reloadable bulk film in film cannisters is smart--storing film "loose" leads to grit and junk that can get trapped in the felt lips and can scratch film, or just contaminate it with specks of crud.


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## smerchant (May 23, 2013)

I'm completely OCD about keeping my film in their canisters. I don't usually save the boxes but print up labels to put all the film info on and keep the canisters in the fridge or freezer and even the canisters are in plastic boxes. Thanks for posting the article on light piping. I've noticed the labels about loading in subdued lighting and with these rolls keep my loading bag with me. This helps a lot. Thank you.


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## Josh66 (May 23, 2013)

Derrel said:


> You might well be onto something Josh...a user here reports light piping problems with the Rollei Retro and Also an Agfa film on a PET base...



Yes, the clear PET base seems to be the common factor after reading through that.  The packaging does say to load in subdued light - but unless my idea of subdued light is way off, that wasn't good enough for me.  In extreme cases (back wide open, no attempt to shade it), the fogging has been bad enough to make the first/last frame or two unusable.

Unloading the film in a changing bag is no big deal, but to load it I kinda like to be able to see the start mark.  Going into the bathroom/closet with the door cracked just enough to see the start mark (the mark on the camera is much harder to see than the mark on the paper in this scenario) has been working.  That seems like more than just "subdued" to me.  

My camera doesn't have a window in the back, so if I don't get it lined up right before I close it I'm afraid I'll end up wasting a few frames.


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