# Aperture



## Sisitecandy (Feb 22, 2017)

Hello!
I want to buy a DSLR but I'm wondering what happens if I get one with an aperture of f/5.6 and buy a lens with an aperture of f/1.8. Will I be able to get shots with a shallow deph of field (f/1.8) ? 
Thanks.


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## photo1x1.com (Feb 22, 2017)

Hi and welcome to the forum. 
Definitely. With f/1.8 you will get nice depth of field. the better the longer your focal length. 24mm at f/1.8 wouldn´t give you very shallow depth, but 85mm f/1.8 would.


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## Designer (Feb 22, 2017)

Sisitecandy said:


> Hello!
> I want to buy a DSLR but I'm wondering what happens if I get one with an aperture of f/5.6 and buy a lens with an aperture of f/1.8. Will I be able to get shots with a shallow deph of field (f/1.8) ?
> Thanks.


Hello!

It will be fine.  When you remove the standard lens with its f/5.6, and install the other lens with its f/1.8, then your camera will use the new lens aperture, and not the old one.

If you are attempting a shallow depth of field, use the wider aperture, (f/1.8), and stay somewhat back away from your subject.  Also, make sure the background is farther back behind your subject as well. 

So some theoretical numbers; using a 50mm lens at f/1.8, distance to subject about 8 feet, and the background is about 20 feet from your camera.  Do that and you should be good.


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## Sisitecandy (Feb 22, 2017)

Thank you for your responses. But is it possible to buy a dslr without a standard lens ?


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## photo1x1.com (Feb 22, 2017)

Sisitecandy said:


> Thank you for your responses. But is it possible to buy a dslr without a standard lens ?


Yes of course. You can buy it without lens (body only) or there are also kits with better lenses. But I have yet to see a kit with a prime lens. Prime lenses have the largest apertures.


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## Sisitecandy (Feb 22, 2017)

I really want to get a 50mm f/1.8 lens, but I don't think I could afford it. So what is the best (and affordable) aperture to get good portraits ?


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## photo1x1.com (Feb 22, 2017)

Canons and Nikons 50mm f/1.8 are pretty affordable. If a new one is too expensive, consider a used lens.


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## table1349 (Feb 22, 2017)

DSLR's don't have apertures.  Lenses have apertures.


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## KmH (Feb 22, 2017)

The aperture is in the lens (lens aperture), not in the DSLR.
A big advantage of a DSLR is the ability to change lenses.

Note too that DoF is about more than the lens aperture.
Lens focal length, point of focus distance, and image sensor size all contribute along with lens aperture.
Understanding Depth of Field in Photography

For example here is a photo that has a nicely blurred background that was made using 500 mm as the focal length and a f-stop of f/6.3.
The key is the bird (focus distance) was about 85 feet in front of the camera.


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## dasmith232 (Feb 22, 2017)

Canon's 50mm 1.8 lens is one of the cheapest lenses out there, at about $125 new. Yongnuo makes a clone which is even cheaper for less than $60 new. Nikon's version of the 50mm lens is a little bit more expensive, but it's kinda the same idea. Plus there are many ways to use older lenses than can be found on the used market.

And I hate to break some bad news to you, but it's important to know what you're getting into...

The true cost of ownership of a DSLR camera is easily 2 to 3 times the cost of the body alone. You don't *have* to spend that money right away, but you should plan on that being the case at some point.

A DSLR camera is a platform, or a foundation upon which you build a system. It is NOT an upgrade from a point-and-shoot camera. It's an entirely different animal.

I've used the "tool box" analogy before and I think it applies here. Your camera-phone is like a Swiss-Army knife. It has all kinds of gadgets built into it: knife, scissors, toothpick, bottle-opener, and so-on. If you don't buy more tools (lenses, flash, accessories) for your toolbox (camera), then you'll probably have overspent compared to the features you can get from your phone where you don't have to spend beyond the initial purchase. 

A DSLR camera is like a toolbox. It *can* hold lots of tools, and way more than a Swiss-Army knife. But when you first get the toolbox, it doesn't actually have many tools in it. It's just a few starter tools. In other words, a kit lens. But it will hold many tools, and much more powerful tools than the Swiss Army knife could ever do.


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## Designer (Feb 22, 2017)

Sisitecandy said:


> So what is the best (and affordable) aperture to get good portraits ?


Ignore aperture.

You should be inquiring about the focal length rather than the aperture.  Let's assume for the moment that you may be talking about getting a DSLR with the "medium size" sensor; the APS-C, size, which comes in the "entry level" cameras such as; the Nikon D3300 or Nikon D5300 for example.

In that type of camera body, you would probably want a focal length of between 75mm and 135mm.  Obtaining a lens in that focal length is a good choice for portraiture.


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## dasmith232 (Feb 22, 2017)

Designer said:


> ...In that type of camera body, you would probably want a focal length of between 75mm and 135mm.  Obtaining a lens in that focal length is a good choice for portraiture.


That would absolutely work. Personally, I don't prefer 135mm on a crop-sized sensor, but each of us has a preferred style of photography. That's the beauty of this photography thing: there are so many paths to choose and pursue.

To the OP (Sisitecandy), getting a kit lens with the body is almost always the cheapest way to get a decent lens. Are kit lenses "great"? Well, look at it this way, there really aren't bad lenses out there. Yeah, there are some exceptions to that rule, but by and large almost any lens can be used for getting great pictures. It's not that lenses are "bad" as much as some are more limited and need to be used within certain focal or aperture ranges.

Keeping that in mind, buying a body *WITH* the lens is the cheapest way to get that lens. Buying them separately is definitely more expensive. For people that already have a collection of lenses, buying the body-only makes sense.

If you get a camera with a kit lens, use it for a while before buying the next lens. You'll figure out all kinds of things, including what focal lengths you actually use as well as what apertures you end up shooting with. If you're "in the middle" of a range, then you probably don't need something different. If you're always at the limit of a range, then you'll know that you're needing/wanting a different lens in that direction.

Find a friend that has a camera. Once you get a photo-nerd talking about their camera stuff, the conversation will go on for a long time. You'll get a chance to play with things and understand what you want before plunking down a bunch of cash.


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## Light Guru (Feb 22, 2017)

gryphonslair99 said:


> DSLR's don't have apertures.  Lenses have apertures.



^^^THAT^^^

Surprised the first response didn't say anything about that!!


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## Ben1989 (Feb 23, 2017)

The DSLR merely captures what the lens is seeing.

I've learned a lot from my kit lens. Everything about ISO, shutter speed, F-stop etc. With a prime lens (for your portraits) you won't widen your knowledge as much I don't think. Since, I've bought a wide angle lens which I love and I have my first child on the way so looking into 50mm prime lenses (effectively 75mm with my crop camera).


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## Designer (Feb 23, 2017)

Light Guru said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> > DSLR's don't have apertures.  Lenses have apertures.
> ...


Ahh.. but the second one did!  We have to go slow with newbies.


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## Sisitecandy (Feb 23, 2017)

For the first message, I was refering to the lens but screwed up, my bad.
How about I get the Canon 1200D dslr. I heard it's good camera to begin with since I don't know nothing about the settings. The standard lens has 18-55 mm and an aperture of 3.5-5.6. Will it be able to get good portraits with a blurry background ? 


dasmith232 said:


> A DSLR camera is like a toolbox. It *can* hold lots of tools, and way more than a Swiss-Army knife. But when you first get the toolbox, it doesn't actually have many tools in it. It's just a few starter tools. In other words, a kit lens. But it will hold many tools, and much more powerful tools than the Swiss Army knife could ever do.



The thing is, I don't even have a great ''Swiss-Army knife''. So getting a ''tool box'' may be more efficient.


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## table1349 (Feb 23, 2017)

Designer said:


> Light Guru said:
> 
> 
> > gryphonslair99 said:
> ...


Not really. The second one just said that when you take off one lens the body would use the different lens you put on it.   That is true but it did not state that cameras don't have aperture.  Sometime we have to go slow with oldies as well.


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## Designer (Feb 23, 2017)

Sisitecandy said:


> The standard lens has 18-55 mm and an aperture of 3.5-5.6. Will it be able to get good portraits with a blurry background ?


This lens is a good all-round lens which is very useful for the average kind of photography.  It is not, however, the best at portraiture, as you have already guessed.  When you get it, try it out at the longest focal length, 55mm, with your model about ten feet away, and the background more like 30 feet away.  Then, with the widest aperture you can get, f/5.6, there might be a little background blurring, but not quite like you are hoping for.

You will want to get a second lens for your camera that has a focal length of more like 100mm (or more), and an aperture of f/2.8 if you can.  Then you can "portrait" your little heart out.


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## Sisitecandy (Feb 23, 2017)

Here is a picture of a girl in my class. We are not actually freinds this is why I dont want to ask her what camera she uses.  Of course, I hid her face. But will I be able to get this type of picture with the Canon 1200D and the lens I mentionned ?

Edit: Picture removed.


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## table1349 (Feb 23, 2017)

Sisitecandy said:


> Here is a picture of a girl in my class. We are not actually freinds this is why I dont want to ask her what camera she uses.  Of course, I hid her face. But will I be able to get this type of picture with the Canon 1200D and the lens I mentionned?
> 
> Edit: Picture removed.


That all depends on you not the camera.  The camera is just a tool. It is the skill of the photographer in knowing how to use the tools, not the tools themselves that allows the photographer to achieve the images they want.

Just like a great mathematician isn't great because of the calculator the own, neither is the photographer good because of their camera.  It is a skill to be learned, taking time, dedication, and hard work.


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## dasmith232 (Feb 23, 2017)

So, you're concluding that the lens is more important than the body for how a portrait looks. And you're absolutely right. Even more than the lens, lighting will make a huge difference in how a portrait looks than the lens (alone).

Yes, the 18-55 can be used to make nice portraits.

To do that, you'd first find nice light. This can be a room with only one window that's away from the sun. If you're in the north hemisphere, then it would be a north window. Opposite if you're south. Then with the subject at the window but facing sideways, you'd shoot parallel to the wall. This works better if the space behind the person is empty.

Next, you'd pull out your phone and use the camera app to take a picture. Get pretty close to the person and ... viola! You'll have a nice picture. Oh, but wait! That isn't with the 18-55 lens. It's the smartphone. This will demonstrate the importance of understanding light.

Now, if you do get a camera with an 18-55mm lens, you'd pretty much do the same thing. Same person, same room. You'd zoom in to 55mm and get as close to the subject as the lens will allow. Then you'd back away just a bit so you're not right at the focus limit, resulting in out-of-focus images from being too close and outside the limits of the lens.

Click and you've got it.

There are plenty of additional settings including the aperture selected and which mode to use and so on. That comes next. The key thing is that lighting is essential. Better optics and a larger sensor (even with a "kit" setup) is next.

Regarding Canon vs. Nikon vs. Sony vs. whatever, they all take good pictures. My personal recommendation to you is find out what brand is closest to you in terms of friends or (even better) family.

There are many thousands of DSLR or similar camera systems that have been sold that sit on a shelf. It looks like you're young and probably have parents, uncles, aunts or maybe even older siblings that could have gone down this path. When you show an interest, that person will likely want to talk about photography and equipment. You'll then be able to get first-hand experience with that system. The one that you learn first has a good chance of the one that you'll want long-term.

Whether or not that happens, you should also find somewhere that has a few choices (like a camera store) and try out the different models. Don't buy anything on your first visit. Say that you're "just looking". Many smaller stores will even let you take the camera outside as long as you leave a license or credit card or family member as collateral. Then go back later.

Also, there's a chance that if an unused camera is within the family, you might be able to borrow it for an extended period. My dad had a brand-new Minolta XG-7 that went unused and it pretty much became my first SLR camera that saw plenty of action. Sweet!

Not that the Minolta is a good choice for you. You probably couldn't find one nor even want one. It's older than most people here. Except maybe Derrel.  (I'm kidding Derrel!)


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## dasmith232 (Feb 23, 2017)

Sisitecandy said:


> ...will I be able to get this type of picture with the Canon 1200D and the lens I mentioned?...


Yeah, definitely. Like Gryphonslair said, you'd have to know how to use it. But that would not be a difficult image to capture with that kind of camera.


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## photo1x1.com (Feb 23, 2017)

Sisitecandy said:


> Here is a picture of a girl in my class. We are not actually freinds this is why I dont want to ask her what camera she uses.  Of course, I hid her face. But will I be able to get this type of picture with the Canon 1200D and the lens I mentionned ?
> 
> Edit: Picture removed.



I think you are referring to the amount of blur in the background, right? There isn´t really a lot of blur, so I´d say you can even do this with the kit lens.
What´s a little more difficult to tell is the focal length used (especially without seeing the face). But I think this was somewhere between 50mm and 85mm on a crop sensor camera like the 1200D.
For the rest the people above are right: lighting, etc. is done by you, not camera or lens, but I think that was not your question, right?


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## table1349 (Feb 23, 2017)

dasmith232 said:


> Not that the Minolta is a good choice for you. You probably couldn't find one nor even want one. It's older than most people here. Except maybe Derrel.  (I'm kidding Derrel!)


Derrel predates the Daguerreotype.  I'm not saying Derrel is old but as a Senior in High School he was God's Freshman Advisor.


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## Sisitecandy (Feb 23, 2017)

dasmith232 said:


> It looks like you're young and probably have parents, uncles, aunts or maybe even older siblings that could have gone down this path.


I actually have no one who knows something about photography. I just discovered that a lot of people in my school take high quality pictures and I wanted to do the same because everyone looks good on them. I knew an iPhone wouldn't do the same job so instead of investing into one, I decided to get a dslr.
And for the Canon or Nikon dilemma, I think I'm going to go with Canon. And the Canon 1200D to be more precise. I hope I'm making a good choice.

What about this picture ?

Edit: Picture removed.


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## Designer (Feb 23, 2017)

Sisitecandy said:


> .. will I be able to get this type of picture with the Canon 1200D and the lens I mentionned ?


My guess is that is exactly the kind of lens you mentioned.  I was unable to get any shooting details off the photo, (I got her name) but I had to guess, I'd say it was taken at 55mm, at a distance of about 5 feet, and aperture of f/5.6.  

You see the tree fronds are only about 2-3 feet behind her, and they are not completely blurred out.  The subject is in good focus, so if that will do for you, then get that camera with that lens.


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## Designer (Feb 23, 2017)

Sisitecandy said:


> I just discovered that a lot of people in my school take high quality pictures and I wanted to do the same because everyone looks good on them. I knew an iPhone wouldn't do the same job so instead of investing into one, I decided to get a dslr.


The factors that make a big difference are; better lenses, larger sensor, more advanced firmware, larger files, and if someone has taken the care to purchase a decent camera, they will probably also take care to aim and shoot carefully as well.  Good photographs can be had without too much effort.

The iPhone has a much smaller sensor, a very wide-angle lens, and rather pedestrian-level firmware.  

I would rather not get into critiquing your photographs in detail just now because I think you have much to learn about getting your first camera, so I don't want to discourage you or confuse you with side issues.


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## Sisitecandy (Feb 23, 2017)

These are not mine, I was just posting them to see if someone could figure out wich lens they used to get these shots.


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## john.margetts (Feb 23, 2017)

Sisitecandy said:


> These are not mine, I was just posting them to see if someone could figure out wich lens they used to get these shots.


If they are not yours, you should not be posting them, really. Copyright and such.


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## table1349 (Feb 23, 2017)

Read this: Digital Photography Tutorials

All of it.  Then you will have the beginnings of an understanding of photography.


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## Derrel (Feb 23, 2017)

Okay OP....HERE is the article you need to  read, in order to literally see the differences shown, the differences between a smartphone sized sensor, and a "FF" or 24x36mm sensor, and those sensor sizes in-between. The article is from 2012, on dPReview, and it is entitled Background Blur and Its Relationship to Sensor Size.

This will explain, and show, why d-slr camera pictures tend to look different from most iPhone or Android phone snaps.


Background blur and its relationship to sensor size


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## Sisitecandy (Feb 23, 2017)

john.margetts said:


> If they are not yours, you should not be posting them, really. Copyright and such.


I know the people who posed for the pictures, I hid their faces because I know they don't want to show it,  and I am not taking profit out of these shots. It's not like I was bragging or showing off or boasting about them because again I did not take the pictures. I cannot quote the source to keep the anonymity. I don't know what you find bad in this but again, I posted them just to see if you guys could help me by giving me advices on wich camera and lens to buy to get a similar result.


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## dasmith232 (Feb 23, 2017)

Derrel said:


> ...This will explain, and show, why d-slr camera pictures tend to look different from most iPhone or Android phone snaps...


But the latest iPhone now blurs photos just like any professional camera. I just saw the TV commercial last night!


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## table1349 (Feb 23, 2017)

Sisitecandy said:


> john.margetts said:
> 
> 
> > If they are not yours, you should not be posting them, really. Copyright and such.
> ...


It is simple.  It is against the forum rules.


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## KmH (Feb 23, 2017)

Sisitecandy said:


> john.margetts said:
> 
> 
> > If they are not yours, you should not be posting them, really. Copyright and such.
> ...


It is a common misunderstanding that profit has to be involved before unauthorized use of someone else's photograph  may actually be copyright infringement.
Here in the US (there is no location info in your profile) copyright law includes some provisions for what is known as "Fair Use" but what is or isn't a fair use is not at all cut & dried.


> Please note that the Copyright Office is unable to provide specific legal advice to individual members of the public about questions of fair use.


More Information on Fair Use | U.S. Copyright Office

As far as TPF, an online community of amateur and professional photographers that have a vested interest in protecting *every* photographers copyrights, TPF says: ThePhotoForum.com Guidelines and Rules | Photography Forum


> * You agree to only post images and/or other material to which you have exclusive copyright, or permission from the copyright holder that you are able to present to TPF Staff. Under no circumstances will any instance of copyright infringement be tolerated.


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## Sisitecandy (Feb 24, 2017)

You guys are making this a huge big deal. Like seriously, these are my classmates ! If I made a mistake, I apologize for it even tho I still don't know what the problem is. We are 15 years old taking pictures for fun. They are ok for posting their pictures here, but they don't want to show their faces. These are not professional photos and again I'm not taking profit out of these.



gryphonslair99 said:


> It is simple. It is against the forum rules.


What is againt the forum rules ? I still don't understand, just clarify please. I'm literally confused.


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## table1349 (Feb 24, 2017)

Sisitecandy said:


> You guys are making this a huge big deal. Like seriously, these are my classmates ! If I made a mistake, I apologize for it even tho I still don't know what the problem is. We are 15 years old taking pictures for fun. They are ok for posting their pictures here, but they don't want to show their faces. These are not professional photos and again I'm not taking profit out of these.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



* *You are completely responsible for the content of your posts. Upon becoming a member, you agree to hold harmless TPF owners and staff regarding any claim based against you from a posted message or forum behavior. Although we guard your privacy on a routine basis and will not disclose confidential information to other members, TPF reserves the right to disclose any and all information we may have on you, from your IP address to your actual identity, should a complaint or legal action arise due to posts you have made here. 

* Your IP address is recorded with each post, so that in the event of a major infraction of TPF rules, your address(es) will be banned as well as your ISP contacted. *

*_* You agree to only post images and/or other material to which you have exclusive copyright, or permission from the copyright holder that you are able to present to TPF Staff. Under no circumstances will any instance of copyright infringement be tolerated.*_

_*Read all of the rules: ThePhotoForum.com Guidelines and Rules | Photography Forum*_


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## Sisitecandy (Feb 24, 2017)

So I broke a TPF rule. But what if I do have the permission to post pictures that are not mine ? Is it okay ?


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## limr (Feb 24, 2017)

Sisitecandy said:


> So I broke a TPF rule. But what if I do have the permission to post pictures that are not mine ? Is it okay ?



To clarify, it's not just a TPF rule; copyright protection is federal law. The forum rules are to be in compliance with that law. In other words, breaking the TPF rule on copyrighted material means breaking the federal law. Providing verifiable permission can be complicated, and it would be easier to simply find a different picture that illustrates what you are trying to achieve, and provide a link to that picture.


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## john.margetts (Feb 24, 2017)

Sisitecandy said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> > It is simple. It is against the forum rules.
> ...


Posting other people's photographs is against the forum rules. It doesn't matter if they are your friends or if you are not making money, you mustn't post them. All photographs are copyright and you are expected to honour that.


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