# whats so good about a pro camera??



## paigew (Mar 8, 2012)

Now that I (sort of) 'know' my camera (T3i). I am wondering what better, nicer, more expensive cameras have that mine doesn't. What is so much better about a professional camera than a entry level one? The only thing I can think of is higher ISO. So what else is different? Just curious :mrgreen:


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## DorkSterr (Mar 8, 2012)

Faster AF, better ISO capability, faster FPS, better actuations...etc. just to name a very few. But to me what matters most is build quality.


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## paigew (Mar 8, 2012)

DorkSterr said:


> Faster AF, better ISO capability, faster FPS, better actuations...etc. just to name a very few. But to me what matters most is build quality.



isn't it the lens that controls the AF speed?


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## 480sparky (Mar 8, 2012)

paigew said:


> isn't it the lens that controls the AF speed?



Not always.  Many bodies have focus motors built into them for focusing the lenses.  And some bodies will inherently focus faster simply due to better AF design & programming.


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## PapaMatt (Mar 8, 2012)

Well, that is a loaded question! my wife has a VW Bug I have a 2010 BMW, they both get us there but how?


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## Kolander (Mar 8, 2012)

Two dial controls, bigger sensor, CLS flash...


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## kundalini (Mar 8, 2012)

paigew said:


> What is so much better about a professional camera than a entry level one?


The knowledge you gain from doing the required research to determine if you _need_ a pro grade camera.


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## Big Mike (Mar 8, 2012)

paigew said:


> DorkSterr said:
> 
> 
> > Faster AF, better ISO capability, faster FPS, better actuations...etc. just to name a very few. But to me what matters most is build quality.
> ...


The lens motor, the size/weight of the lens elements...does play a part.  But the 'brain' of the AF is a processor inside the camera.  Also, the number, layout and type of AF sensors, is also something that is inside the camera, not the lens.

As mentioned, one of the biggest things that you'll notice when you go from an 'entry level' DSLR, to a mid or pro grade model, is the build and layout of the body.  For example, on your Rebel, to change the aperture while in manual mode, you must press a button while adjusting the control dial.  On higher end cameras, there are two (or more) dials, so that you don't have to push+turn.  Higher end bodies also have more external buttons for quick access to the things we change most often.  ISO, metering mode, AF mode, Drive mode, WB, etc.  They may also have another LCD screen on top of the body, for quick viewing of the settings.
Yet another difference is the size & layout of the body.  I don't like Rebels much, as they are too small for my hands.  A battery grip can improve that, but I like the bigger bodies found on higher end cameras.
The build materials and quality is yet another difference.  Higher end bodies have more metal and less plastic than your Rebel.  They also have more/better environmental seals around the buttons & doors etc.  The pro end bodies are designed to work in heavy rain if need be.  
They are also designed with heavy use in mind.  You'll often hear a pro camera described as a 'brick' or 'tank' because they feel very solid.  A Rebel, in comparison, feels more like a toy.

Don't take my word for it.  Go into a good camera store and pick up a 1Ds mkIII or a 1Dx, or a Nikon D3 or D4.


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## jwbryson1 (Mar 8, 2012)

I think high ISO capabilities and a better sensor are HUGE.


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## Derrel (Mar 8, 2012)

A pro Nikon has the best viewfinder Nikon can make. It has the highest-spec'd set of core capabilities Nikon can make. It has the best AF system Nikon can make. It is as good a camera for its "niche" as Nikon can manage to manufacture. For example the "niche" would be a low-light/action/high ISO camera----the D3s. For a high-resolution, flagship level studio camera the D3x. Nikon has split action and studio up since the D1h-D1x days, followed by the D2h then and the D2x series (two iterations of each of those two models). I expect that there might be a D4x with a 36MP sensor for studio/fashion pros who demand every last single advantage that a pro Nikon can offer. A "pro camera" from NIkon is likely to be optimized toward a certain set of needs, and thus there are often two,different "sub-models" of each pro Nikon.

A pro Nikon is a fast-reacting camera; *the shutter lag time is fast, the mirror return time is fast, the AF speeds are excellent*, and the camera has *DEDICATED CONTROLS for essential shooting parameters*....like a dedicated external ISO button. It's hard to imagine how different a professional level, flagship camera feels and reacts until you have shot one and relied upon it for a few months. It is kind of like the difference between a .25 ACP pistol made in Chico,California and a Browning, Beretta, or Glock 9mm....like the difference between Gallo jug wine and $65 per bottle wine...like the difference between a 10-year-old Toyota and a band new Mercedes...ALL of these products do essentially *the same "THING"*, but the manufacturing, design, capabilities, and degree of engineering and build quality are all vastly different from the low-end to the high end. Costco jeans and those $199 jeans your SO likes...you get the idea.


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## paigew (Mar 8, 2012)

Big Mike said:


> paigew said:
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> > DorkSterr said:
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Thanks mike! You give the best explanations  Now I see! I still love my little rebel, I'm sure it will be a few years before my upgrade


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## jwbryson1 (Mar 8, 2012)

Here's a good example.  My friend is a pro photographer.  He shot images of a couple flying into a tiny landing strip at night in a small airplane (Cessna 152).  They got out of the plane and walked over to a tree with lights and ornaments on it.  This was completely pre-arranged.  The girl opened up 3 ornaments and the last one contained an engagement ring.  My friend was hiding in the woods and was able to capture the plane flying in and their private moments together, plus the couple getting engaged.  He shot the series at *10,000 ISO* with his Canon 1Ds Mark III.

Try THAT with a DX sensor.


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## 480sparky (Mar 8, 2012)

Another thing that I don't see mentioned:  Ability to record raw files.


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## mjhoward (Mar 8, 2012)

480sparky said:


> Another thing that I don't see mentioned:  Ability to record raw files.



His t3i will do that.


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## paigew (Mar 8, 2012)

yes, my t3i does shoot in raw...though I have yet to try it out.


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## Big Mike (Mar 8, 2012)

paigew said:


> yes, my t3i does shoot in raw...*though I have yet to try it out*.


FOR SHAME!


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## pgriz (Mar 8, 2012)

paigew said:


> Now that I (sort of) 'know' my camera (T3i). I am wondering what better, nicer, more expensive cameras have that mine doesn't. What is so much better about a professional camera than a entry level one? The only thing I can think of is higher ISO. So what else is different? Just curious :mrgreen:



As one of my pro buddies told me when I asked him that exact question:  "I can focus faster, more accurately, in dimmer light, with more resolution, less noise, more reliability, under worse conditions than you can with yours.  Other than that, it's the same."  He's a photojournalist, and his stuff is regularly in the local main rag, often on the front page.  He often literally has only seconds to get the shot.  Having reliable equipment that works is fundamental to him.  I am a hobbyist, and I can afford to take my time, so I can't justify the money he spends.  Of course, his knowing how to use his equipment makes it work for him, but when he's on that edge, he wants all the advantages he can get on his side.


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## rgregory1965 (Mar 8, 2012)

jwbryson1 said:


> Here's a good example.  My friend is a pro photographer.  He shot images of a couple flying into a tiny landing strip at night in a small airplane (Cessna 152).  They got out of the plane and walked over to a tree with lights and ornaments on it.  This was completely pre-arranged.  The girl opened up 3 ornaments and the last one contained an engagement ring.  My friend was hiding in the woods and was able to capture the plane flying in and their private moments together, plus the couple getting engaged.  He shot the series at *10,000 ISO* with his Canon 1Ds Mark III.
> 
> Try THAT with a DX sensor.




My D7000 and Sigma 70-200 F/2.8 could handle that no problem.....LIVE on DX


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## jake337 (Mar 8, 2012)

rgregory1965 said:


> jwbryson1 said:
> 
> 
> > Here's a good example.  My friend is a pro photographer.  He shot images of a couple flying into a tiny landing strip at night in a small airplane (Cessna 152).  They got out of the plane and walked over to a tree with lights and ornaments on it.  This was completely pre-arranged.  The girl opened up 3 ornaments and the last one contained an engagement ring.  My friend was hiding in the woods and was able to capture the plane flying in and their private moments together, plus the couple getting engaged.  He shot the series at *10,000 ISO* with his Canon 1Ds Mark III.
> ...




Yes but if our entry level, or prosumer level bodies are dropped from a moving vehicle, will they still get the job done?

Nikon D3s camera falls from a motorcycle, continues to shoot | Nikon Rumors


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## DorkSterr (Mar 8, 2012)

^ThisI dropped my d70 (Black Rapid fail) the shutter jammed. This all happened while I was in vacation in Thailand...


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## rgregory1965 (Mar 8, 2012)

Well if I ever dropped my D7000 I would probly jump for the car as well.....lol


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## Mot (Mar 8, 2012)

I've used a few pro cameras recently though very briefly. I was testing the 1Dx and D4 and I can tell you that they are the most sturdy cameras I have ever held or shot. They also have a reassuring weight to them, plenty of dedicated buttons and a longer battery life. They are also able to take higher quality pictures at a higher frame rate with ease.

As a comment on the durability side, I think the magnesium alloy frame of pro and prosumer cameras make a massive difference. I dropped my 20D down a flight of stairs and, much like the D3 in the video, only the battery door was damaged but was later fixed. I watched it bounce step by step, I feared for the worst but was pleasantly surprised. The 20D is by no means a D3 but they share the magnesium bodies that make all the difference.

When your job is dependent on your camera working then it has to be durable!


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## Zyr55 (Mar 8, 2012)

jake337 said:


> rgregory1965 said:
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> > jwbryson1 said:
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So all pro bodies can survive that kind of impact?


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## gsgary (Mar 8, 2012)

Pro cameras don't have a pop up flash


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## Mot (Mar 8, 2012)

gsgary said:


> Pro cameras don't have a pop up flash



AND PEOPLE ACTUALLY BUY THEM?!?!?!


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## jake337 (Mar 8, 2012)

Mot said:


> I've used a few pro cameras recently though very briefly. I was testing the 1Dx and D4 and I can tell you that they are the most sturdy cameras I have ever held or shot. They also have a reassuring weight to them, plenty of dedicated buttons and a longer battery life. They are also able to take higher quality pictures at a higher frame rate with ease.
> 
> As a comment on the durability side, I think the magnesium alloy frame of pro and prosumer cameras make a massive difference. I dropped my 20D down a flight of stairs and, much like the D3 in the video, only the battery door was damaged but was later fixed. I watched it bounce step by step, I feared for the worst but was pleasantly surprised. The 20D is by no means a D3 but they share the magnesium bodies that make all the difference.
> 
> When your job is dependent on your camera working then it has to be durable!



Exactly, it all depends on if it is needed for your job.  

Also weather sealing is crucial if you need it.

1x.com - Pushing the limits by Christer Lindh


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## Overread (Mar 8, 2012)

gsgary said:


> Pro cameras don't have a pop up flash



I thought Hasselblads had them - or at least some of them did. Does this mean Hassy isn't pro? 

Also durability can be extreme on some pro gear:


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## jake337 (Mar 8, 2012)

Zyr55 said:


> jake337 said:
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> > rgregory1965 said:
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Maybe not every time.  But if my job and families lively hood depended on my equipment working in extreme conditions you sure can bet I would own one.


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## 480sparky (Mar 8, 2012)

paigew said:


> yes, my t3i does shoot in raw...though I have yet to try it out.



Once you go raw, you never go back.


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## paigew (Mar 8, 2012)

480sparky said:


> paigew said:
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> 
> > yes, my t3i does shoot in raw...though I have yet to try it out.
> ...



lol, Yeah, my main thing is I take a ton of photos (my kids) and I am afraid the files will be too large!


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## 480sparky (Mar 8, 2012)

paigew said:


> lol, Yeah, my main thing is I take a ton of photos (my kids) and I am afraid the files will be too large!



For 'snapshot' situations, jpeg is just fine.  And there's nothing wrong with that.

However, memory is cheap, and getting cheaper every day.


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## paigew (Mar 8, 2012)

Thanks sparky, just for you, my next 'photo session' I will shoot in raw


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## 480sparky (Mar 8, 2012)

paigew said:


> Thanks sparky, just for you, my next 'photo session' I will shoot in raw



Just remember, you'll need to take extra time to work with the files!


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## D-B-J (Mar 8, 2012)

Take a look at everything you camera does, and compare the bits and pieces side by side with, say, a 1dx.  The 1dx does everything your camera does, but it does it better.


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## paigew (Mar 8, 2012)

480sparky said:


> paigew said:
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> 
> > Thanks sparky, just for you, my next 'photo session' I will shoot in raw
> ...



okay on the subject of raw again...if I "get it right in camera" why do i need to shoot raw??


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## Overread (Mar 8, 2012)

paigew said:


> 480sparky said:
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> > paigew said:
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Inside the camera is a RAW processing code which produces your JPEGs, over these you've some limited control with things such as contrast, brightness, sharpening etc.. through the in-camera menus. However these are only able to be used prior to shooting the shot, you can't adjust them based on the lighting, exposure nor your own creative take on the scene.
This is why we have RAW mode, which lets you define all those values (and more) at the editing stage in the computer. Though your RAW processing software might read your cameras default values and use them as a starting point you are free to adjust any of those settings as you wish. You can also adjust the whitebalance totally freely. In addition because the settings are not fixed you gain a bit more data to work with - sometimes this is the make or break between blown out sections and areas that are just marginally overexposed. 

Though it should be noted all RAWs have an embedded JPEG in them which is used to make the histogram and LCD image on the camera and that this is processed using the cameras set settings, thus many who shoot in RAW still keep their in-camera editing settings set to neutral/base values so that their histograms are as close to the RAWs as possible. 


In the end RAW gives you more freedom and more options to control the creative and final appearance of a photo even if you don't intend to make significant edits to it.


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## 480sparky (Mar 8, 2012)

paigew said:


> .............okay on the subject of raw again...if I "get it right in camera" why do i need to shoot raw??



Define "get it right".  White balance?  Sharpness?  Image size? Jpeg compression ratios?  Exposure?  Picture Control? Color space? Noise reduction?


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## Derrel (Mar 9, 2012)

"The Nikon D5100 offers not only in-camera RAW file processing, but also provides Nikon's extensive in-camera image retouching capabilities. These include resizing, cropping, post-capture D-Lighting, redeye correction, monochrome and other filter effects, color balance, image overlay, quick retouch, straighten, distortion control, perspective control, miniature effect, fisheye, color outline, color sketch, and selective color."

A handful of Nikon cameras allow the user to use the *camera* to post-process images, and make as many different JPEG variations as they would like. Handy if you do not have a computer at hand, or just want to kill some time, or to just use the camera to help you make different "looks" to images. Canon is starting to do this as well, some seven years later...

"The Nikon D5100 has six presets called Standard, Neutral, Vivid, Monochrome, Portrait, and Landscape, and up to nine custom presets can be defined, named, saved, and copied. Sharpness can be adjusted in ten steps, along with an Auto setting; contrast, saturation, and hue can be adjusted in seven steps, while hue is adjustable in three steps. There is also a five-step "Quick Adjust" setting, which exaggerates or mutes the effect without having to adjust each slider individually. When Monochrome Picture Control is selected, Hue and Saturation are replaced by Filter Effects and Toning respectively. Filter Effects offers Off, Yellow, Orange, Red, and Green settings, while Toning offers B&W, Sepia, Cyanotype, Red, Yellow, Green, Blue Green, Blue, Purple Blue and Red Purple settings. Note that Picture Controls are only active in Program, Aperture-priority or Shutter-priority and Manual exposure modes, as the Scene modes already apply preset image adjustments. Of course, the Nikon D5100 also offers sRGB and Adobe RGB settings, in a separate Color Space menu."

from imaging resource's review of the Nikon D5100      .http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/D5100/D5100A.HTM


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## Garbz (Mar 9, 2012)

One thing that wasn't mentioned is some of the Pro cameras play music.

The E5 has all sorts of background music programmed into that. Can't do that with any of the lower end E-volts or the Pens. That's gotta be worth the extra cost. 



paigew said:


> okay on the subject of raw again...if I "get it right in camera" why do i need to shoot raw??



My favourite way of thinking about it is with film. You can take an absolutely perfect photo on your camera, and then take it to the chemist to get processed. This is shooting JPEG. Someone else decides contrast, saturation, tone, colour balance, effects, they decide how bright and dark areas of the image are, and they decide all the things which you would have had control over if you had taken the film into the kitchen and done the processing yourself.

Processing the image yourself is like shooting RAW. It's not about getting it right in the camera and being done with it. It's about getting it right in the camera and then getting it perfect in post. 

Mind you there are many scenarios where good enough is good enough


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