# My First Wedding



## birdfish (May 18, 2013)

My cousin asked me to photograph her wedding, which would be my first, and I am considering it.  I know most everyone on here recommends being a second shooter multiople times before attempting one as the main photographer.  But I work at a hospital nights and weekends and every Saturday I work a 16 hour shift.  So being a second shooter for practice really isn't an option for me.  

This is the third wedding I've been asked to do and honestly a little extra money is a big part of why I'm considering it now.  If I accept, I will have a second shooter with me.  I have a Canon T3i body and I'm thinking I would rent the following lenses (at least):
Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II
Canon 24-70mm f/2.8L
Canon 50mm f/1.4
Canon 100mm f/2.8L Macro IS

I'm mainly asking for advice from others who have been in similar situations as I am in now.  I'm hoping to hear any tips/advice from those who shot their 1st wedding without ever second shooting and any suggestions they may have based on their experiences.  Thanks!


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## DGMPhotography (May 18, 2013)

Here's some advice, you're probably not going to get a lot of advice that you like. I'm in the same boat as you, but I've come to terms that it's important to make sure you have a strong foundation and experience, and focus on money later, if at all. Under your circumstances, I'd say to turn it down, and to keep turning them down until your schedule permits you to get some practice second shooting. You DO have a choice, and I think that would be the right one. I personally would feel wrong about taking a job I wasn't 100% confident doing. I've told myself that if I'm not 100% confident in my abilities for the job required, that I will turn down the shoot because not only do I want the client to get the best images possible (even if it's by another photographer), but I also want the best results from myself. Good luck in your decision!


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## Light Guru (May 18, 2013)

Even if you are an experienced wedding photographer I would not recommend being the photographer for a family member. 

If you mess up (yes it can happen to experiences photographers also) then thanksgiving dinner and every other family get together is going to be extremely awkward for the both of you. 

Tell your cousin you are flattered they would ask you but you want to enjoy the festivities on the day that your favorite cousin gets married. You can then offer to shoot some engagement shots or pre wedding bridal shots because those can always be done again if needed since you don't have experience.


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## katerolla (May 18, 2013)

You have to start some where, I have shot my first wedding for a friend that asked me, not because I was good but because she had no money to hire some, I'm sure this is the case for you.

the equipment you have mentioned is sufficient but I would also rent a flash as well and maybe not the 50 and the 100
i shoot my weddings with two 5d's and mostly two lenses 24-70 and 70-200 and two flashes, I have backup lenses but relay use then, as for a second shooter do you really need one, obviously your cousin is on a tight budget so try and keep the cost minimum 

just YouTube how to bounce flash and some wedding poses and as long as you get most of your photos well exposed and in focus you'll be right, it's great experience


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## pixmedic (May 18, 2013)

this seems to be a frequent question here. people can give all sorts of great advice, and  you can youtube plenty of instructional videos, but in the end, it is only by practicing and experimenting with these techniques that you become proficient as a photographer. A wedding is no place for practicing, as too much happens very quickly and can be easily missed.  how much photography experience do you have? one flash is not sufficient for a wedding, you should have at least 2-3 with the ability to use them off camera, as well as two camera bodies. 

 A second shooter generally takes direction from the main photog, and relies on the main to set the flow for the wedding photography. (staging, posing, when/where pics are taken) If you are unfamiliar with photographing weddings, how will you handle a second shooter relying on you to know what needs to be done when?

Is it possible for this to work out well for you?  of course there is. However, we probably see at least one person a week in your same situation, but we never see the results of the wedding or event. If you rent lenses, make sure you are familiar with shooting with them. weddings are not a good place to be using equipment for the first time. 
good luck, and if you do the wedding, I would love to see you post a few of your best shots here!


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## Robin_Usagani (May 18, 2013)

Always look at the worst scenario.  Let's assume at the time of the wedding you know what you are doing with the equipment and you rent those lenses:
1. Your camera breaks.. probably a good idea to have another camera
2. You drop the expensive lens on the ground and shatter it.  Are you prepared to fork out $2000 to replace the 70-200?
3. Your photos turn out bad, are you prepared to ruin your relationship with your cousin?
4. Your photos turn out bad, are you prepared to get sued?  Can you pay the damage?  Remember, the amount of the lawsuit can be higher than the contracted amount.  Giving their money back isn't good enough.
5. You are shooting and walk backward at the same time and you ran into this old lady.  She fell and broke her hip.  Can you cover her medical expenses?

I just want to show you the risks for not having a gear insurance, liability and E&O insurance.  It is up to you to decide.  To be honest I played with fire on my first wedding.  I did have 2 cameras.  I did have several lenses.  I did not rent any of them so if I break it.. my loss.  I did not have insurance though.  Thank God everything went smoothly and I had no lawsuit .


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## kathyt (May 18, 2013)

Do you have a website or Flickr page? I can probably tell you pretty quick how this will pan out. I would read all of the other 100's of threads on this and then enter at your own risk.


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## SCraig (May 18, 2013)

Presumably, since you are working in hospital, you are involved in the medical profession.  Whether as a student or resident or other position is moot.  Let me ask you three questions and let you answer honestly:  If you were going to hire a doctor would you hire one with no training?  If someone asked you to perform a medical procedure on them and you had no training would you do so?  So why are you even considering taking on this wedding with no training?

This event will most likely be one of the most important days in your cousin's life.  Are you really willing to risk ruining a big part of it?  OK, that was four questions so sue me.

Maybe you can do an outstanding job and everything will work out without a hitch.  The odds are stacked against it though.   I shot a bunch of weddings many years ago as a second shooter, and then shot a couple on my own.  NEVER again.  Never EVER again.


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## Robin_Usagani (May 18, 2013)

I dont know if I would go as far as comparing it to a doctor.  You cant be an M.D. without a training.  


No guts no glory.


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## cgipson1 (May 18, 2013)

Robin_Usagani said:


> I dont know if I would go as far as comparing it to a doctor.  *You cant be an M.D. without a trainin*g.
> 
> 
> No guts no glory.



*Yea.. but it is really easy to be a Professional Photographer without any training at all! *   <<<(Sarcasm Font Comic Sans MS)


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## Robin_Usagani (May 18, 2013)

I shot my first wedding without ever done 2nd shooting.  It turned out OK.  It is not as black and white as you think.  It is hard to get a 2nd shooting gig if you are new.  I began getting 2nd shooting gigs after I have shot 3 weddings by my self.   I guarantee you most famous wedding photographers today shot their first wedding with a fairly big risk.


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## cgipson1 (May 18, 2013)

Robin_Usagani said:


> I shot my first wedding without ever done 2nd shooting.  It turned out OK.  It is not as black and white as you think.  It is hard to get a 2nd shooting gig if you are new.  I began getting 2nd shooting gigs after I have shot 3 weddings by my self.   I guarantee you most famous wedding photographers today shot their first wedding with a fairly big risk.



Yea.. I agree... I shot my first wedding with no prior experience in shooting a wedding! (Just had sixteen years of general photography behind me, with lot of flash, and top end equipment.) (and that was in Manual Focus Film days... before AF made it so frickin easy for the new breed of PRO's) <<(No Sarcasm font)!


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## tirediron (May 18, 2013)

Okay, your equipment will do; it's not optimal, but it will do.  We'll assume that your photographic skills are up to the task...  a moderately skilled photographer with decent equipment can do an acceptable job of wedding IF they prepare.  The key to a successful wedding shoot is all in the preparation.  Knowing the sequence of events at the wedding, knowing where you have to be and when you have to be there, and getting there ahead of time.  Knowing the best routes and where to park...  knowing when & where the bouquet will be tossed, knowing where & when the cake will be cut and the register signed...  there's a LOT of work to this aside from the actual taking of photographs.


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## birdfish (May 18, 2013)

DGM
I appreciate the advice and I know exactly what you mean.  My schedule isn't going to change anytime soon though because this is my full time job.  I work my 40 hours in 3 days, one 8 hour shift and then two 16's Fri and Sat.  Like you said, I do have a choice to not do it.  But I don't have a choice to practice 2nd shooting without taking 2 days off of work, which I'm not willing to do.

Light Guru
Trust me I keep going back and forth for some of the reasons you mentioned.  I haven't had the chance to talk to her in person yet, only through messages online.  I've let her know that I'm anxious/nervous about accepting because if things do go badly I don't want her to resent me and make things awkward between us.  I would draw up a very detailed contract before accepting though to cover everything I could think of.


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## birdfish (May 18, 2013)

katerolla
I don't think they are necessarily on a tight budget.  She said she likes the photos I've taken and asked if I would be interested.  The second shooter is my wife so no additional cost there.  Just thought it would be nice to have multiple angles that obviously one shooter can't get.  Also if something happened to me (god forbid) she would still be there to fill in.

pixmedic
I agree that practice is the best way to become proficient.  As long as it's spelled out in the contract and they are ok with my inexperience, do you think thats ok?  I bought my first DSLR about 3 years ago and really started focusing on learning about 2 years ago.  I almost always shoot in RAW, in manual mode, and I'm familiar-not an expert with OCF.  Definitely came a long way from when I first got my 50mm 1.8 and thought I was taking all these amazing shots while shooting wide open.  But I definitely have a lot to learn still.  If I rent lenses, I will definitely rent them one at a time beforehand to familiarize myself with them.  And if I do accept, I will definitely post some.


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## birdfish (May 19, 2013)

Robin
1.  I will have a second and third body.
2.  Definitely not!!  Wouldn't insurance purchased through the lens rental company cover something like this though??  Still, I get your point.
3.  Yes, we aren't that close anyway.  (J/K)  
4.  No.  I know everyone in my position always says, "they would NEVER sue me," but my cousin would never sue me 
5.  No.  But I am an Xray/CT Tech so I could hook her up with a free cat scan, LOL.  

I kid, but I understand what you mean.  I'm not so much concerned about those type of things as I am with not being able to keep up with the pace, or being out of position for critical shots.  Oh I just saw your post about bad wedding photos from your wedding, and I do not want to be THAT guy.


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## Light Guru (May 19, 2013)

birdfish said:


> Light Guru
> Trust me I keep going back and forth for some of the reasons you mentioned.  I haven't had the chance to talk to her in person yet, only through messages online.  I've let her know that I'm anxious/nervous about accepting because if things do go badly I don't want her to resent me and make things awkward between us.  I would draw up a very detailed contract before accepting though to cover everything I could think of.



No contract can keep things from going awkward if things go bad.  Your cousin may say she won't be upset at you if the photos don't turn out good but that's a big fat lie. 

Again you can offer to do some bridals or engagement photos as if those get messed up they can always be redone. Those images will help you get on as a second shooter. 



birdfish said:


> I work at a hospital nights and weekends and every Saturday I work a 16 hour shift.  So being a second shooter for practice really isn't an option for me.



I don't buy that as an excuse.  Weddings are NOT a last minute thing, and wedding photographers are booked well in advance.  You can obviously take a day off work to go to your cousins wedding so you can also take off a day here and there to be a second shooter for someone who is an established wedding photographer.


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## Light Guru (May 19, 2013)

birdfish said:


> I know everyone in my position always says, "they would NEVER sue me," but my cousin would never sue me



Your cousin is not marrying themselves there is obviously going to be another person involved and that person also has a family.  Your cousin may not sue you but the cousin in law just might.


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## DGMPhotography (May 19, 2013)

Light Guru said:


> No contract can keep things from going awkward if things go bad.  Your cousin may say she won't be upset at you if the photos don't turn out good but that's a big fat lie.
> 
> Again you can offer to do some bridals or engagement photos as if those get messed up they can always be redone. Those images will help you get on as a second shooter.
> 
> I don't buy that as an excuse.  Weddings are NOT a last minute thing, and wedding photographers are booked well in advance.  You can obviously take a day off work to go to your cousins wedding so you can also take off a day here and there to be a second shooter for someone who is an established wedding photographer.



WHY IS THERE NO LIKE BUTTON ON MOBILE!!!!? 

Listen to this guy, forreal though.


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## birdfish (May 19, 2013)

kathy
Just my FB page Brandon Bass and Brandon Bass Photography, which is a must right? 

SCraig
No, but my cousin might.  Depends on the procedure.  Because my cousin asked me if I would consider it.  Yes, that's what I'm debating now.


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## birdfish (May 19, 2013)

Not making excuses, just not practical for me to take off on Saturdays because it's actually 2 days of my vacation time, not just one.  Obviously I dont mind taking off for my cousin's wedding but 2 days here and there add up, plus its hard to find someone to cover that shift.  And I was just joking around with Robin about my cousin not suing me.


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## birdfish (May 19, 2013)

Great advice tirediron, definitely makes sense.


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## manaheim (May 19, 2013)

Ok, so I've shot probably twelve weddings as secondary and a couple as primary. I'm going to tell you what I've learned...


You must know your gear inside and out, and it has to be ROTE.  I don't just mean you know to know how to work the controls, I mean that you have to know EXACTLY what setting you're going to need for every possible situation.  High movement, low light, both, etc.  You need to understand the quirks of your gear when put in extreme situations and how to compensate quickly.
Your gear must be able to handle the situation.  You're going to hit very low light situations and your camera and lenses need to be pretty much the best you can get to compensate.  You're also going to need multiple focal lengths, and unless you are VERY fast on your feet and have multiple bodies, primes are not going to handle it.
You must pre-screen your locations.  Visit them, get a sense of their lighting situations, search the web for examples that other wedding photographers have to get ideas or spark some of your own.  Have some shots planned before you arrive on scene.  Talk to the proprietors to understand any requirements or restrictions they have.  Ask them about suggestions.  Lean on their experience.  Be super nice.  Relationships here can make the difference between same ol' shots and "Oh hey... you know I always thought it would be cool to get one of these weddings from that balcony over there... would you like me to let you up there?"
You must be good at moving quickly without breaking your gear, yourself, or anyone else.  Imagine trying to do an obstacle course at top speed with about 30 people within arms length at all times with cameras and bags and all sorts of things hanging off various parts of your body.
You need to have backup gear.  Camera should be writing to two cards at all times, you need to have multiple cards and switch often (particularly if your camera can't dual write).  You need to have multiple bodies, multiple flashes, backups of at least the critical lenses, etc.  If you shoot a wedding with only one camera available, you're insaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaane.
Have all your locations mapped out ahead.  Print paper maps/directions as a BACKUP but USE A GPS.  Don't have one?  BUY ONE.  10 minutes late to any part of a wedding=death.  Review your directions and locations the night before.  Make absolutely certain you have all locations.
Have plenty of shots planned.  Understand the must-have shots and be ready for them.  Bride with bride's family, bride with grooms family, bride with whole family, yadda yadda yadda.  Have a roster in your head you want to go through.
Try to get at least one solid shot of every guest at the affair.  You can do "table shots" where you get the groups of people at their tables, but try to get candid as well.
Ask the bride and groom if they have any particular shots they want for the event- sometimes there is an aging grandmother or something and she wants to be super sure to get pictures with her or something.  Just ask. Write these down and STUDY them.  Bring the list with you, but try to have them rote before you go.  Be ready to try to minimize the list gently if the bride creates a list of 8,000 pictures she wants.  You may just remind her that it's her big day and the last thing she wants is to spend all of it smiling for a camera.  Be ready to lose this argument and do what she wants anyway.
Be mindful of sensitivities.  This is a big family event and people will be drinking.  Carefully watch the flow of the people around the room and how they are interacting.  Sometimes something can blow up, and while generally as the photographer you want to be where the action is, this is pretty much the LAST place you want to be.
You must be able to be a diplomat under fire.  The priest has told you that you can't shoot where you expected to.  The priest has informed you that you cannot use flash and the church is darker than you ever imagined and it's cloudy outside.  The mother wants pictures and the bride is trying to enjoy her day.  The uncle is drunk.  There are kids in the wedding party dressed in AF shirts and sneakers.  The bride wigged out last night and took downers and today is drunk to boot. Etc.
You must be an urban survivalist.  You are going to be on your feet for at least 10-12 hours, and possibly more.  You will get probably two and MAYBE three breaks.  Most of those will be five minutes.  You'll get to sit and wolf down dinner for fifteen or so.  The rest... on your feet and moving.  No lunch.  Bring protein bars, peanuts, and two medium sized bottles of Gatorade.  Drink and eat constantly. This may sound gross, but I will tell you I have gone a 16 hour day and drank THREE of those bottles of Gatorade and didn't go to the bathroom ONCE.
You must be MacGuyver.  Bring duct tape, masking tape, clear tape. Bring a multi-screwdriver. Bring all purpose glue. Bring a black marker and a pen. Put anything potentially destructive (black marker- glue) in TWO sealed zip loc bags.  Ever seen a bride with a smear from a black marker from the photographer's hand on her dress? You don't want to.
You must have appropriate clothing.  YOU NEED TO WEAR A SUIT... or AT LEAST dress pants, white shirt and tie.  You need to look respectable.  No green pants and SpongeBob ties.  NO SNEAKERS.  You will need clothing that is conservative, moves well with you when you crouch and such, is comfortable enough temperature wise that you won't die (expect to be VERY hot during this because you're going to be moving), and can withstand the abuse.  For example... standard wingtip shoes are going to pretty much end your feet and knees after a long day.  You need shoes made to be dressy but withstand 12 hours+ on your feet.
You need to be healthy.  I know this sounds odd, but if you're out of shape, this will kill you.  I did my first wedding pretty overweight and being pretty much a couch potato, and I was literally so beat that I still felt it four days later.  After a summer of biking aggressively and losing 30 lbs I was a little worn the next day, but overall fine.
You need to understand portrait photography rules pretty well.  Posing, lighting, etc.  You're going to be taking pictures of people here, so you want them to look their best.
You need to get pictures of the scene and the day as well as the people. The bride and groom put great effort into picking and arranging this... flowers, the church, the reception site, the favors, the centerpieces, etc.  You need to capture the character of the day as well as the activities in it.

There's probably more... I'll add as I think of it, but this was off the top of my head.

Now... one final thing... you pretty much have to have all this DOWN.  If you DON'T... you WILL BE SCREWED.  This, by the way, is why everyone says the one thing I DIDN'T say here, but I still very much agree with, which is that ... you need to turn this down.

This is their day.  Their ONLY day.  They've spent a great deal of money and time on this and it's VERY important to them.  In the end ALL they will have to remember this day by is their pictures.  Possibly a year or more of prep... thousands of dollars... more fights between bride and mom, bride and bride, mom and dad, bride and groom, groom and mom, etc. than you can possibly imagine... and it all hinges pretty much on YOU not screwing up the pictures.


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## manaheim (May 19, 2013)

Wow.  This thread hit a wall of text and died.


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## texkam (May 19, 2013)

Reviewed.com: Photography dilemma - a friend's wedding


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## birdfish (May 20, 2013)

Tons of great advice manaheim.  Thanks!  Gonna make my decision soon.


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## Robin_Usagani (May 20, 2013)

No guts no glory.


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## Juga (May 21, 2013)

Robin_Usagani said:


> No guts no glory.



I like this. I just did my first wedding with no prior wedding experience. I just did A TON of research, met with the couple multiple times before the wedding and went over what they like and don't like, visited the location SEVERAL times, practiced different situations, LOOKED AND LOOKED AND LOOKED at TONS AND TONS AND TONS of wedding photos, went over the schedule of events, well written contract that spelled out my experience level and made sure my clients knew what I was capable of...just a ton of preparation but I jumped two feet in. I loved it, my clients loved it. My shots came out pretty good, not great but they made my client happy. I loved the pace and flow of everything but I would say that it isn't for everyone but it was a good feeling seeing everyone get together for what is a very exciting day for the couple.

PS - I did try to 'latch' on to second shoot but wedding photography in my area seems to be SUPER competitive and no one was willing to take me on.


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## sscarmack (May 21, 2013)

If your confident in your work, do it. If your not, then keep shooting until your ready. Only you will know if your ready or not. 

I do weddings, and they are spur of the moment on the fly. If you do not know your camera and how everything operates, you will be in serious trouble. One second your settings will be 1/250 f5.6 and the next they might be 1/30 f2.8.

My first wedding was a extremely small wedding (25 ppl) and the ceremony and reception were at the same location, only lasted four hours. It was great experience and helped me out a ton. The only way you'll ever know is if you just do it.

I say shoot it.


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## 12sndsgood (May 21, 2013)

Manaheim hit on a lot of great points. i'll add a little bit because I have shot two weddings now as lead. First as everyone else has said, turn it down. now that its out of the way. second shooting is your best option. if you really wanna do weddings you will find the time to shoot. as far as when do to a wedding. you need to be confident in your photography skills. you have to be confident that you can handle posing groups, dealing with angry bridses/grooms/family memebers. confident you can give them a good product, and if you dont have some of those skills you have to have the drive to learn those things before the wedding. my first wedding was with a friend. at the time I hadnt planned on doing weddings. but they couldn't find one they could afford and said the ones they could afford were way worse then me. so I thought about it for a week. shot some engagement photos for them and spent an hour or two talking to them about it and took the job.

reasons why I took the job. I knew i was comfortable in my photography skills. I new I had a second phtographer to go along, I new I had 6 months to prepare. I red probalby 5 books on wedding photography, i ready on the internet everything I could. I made lists of everything to ask when i talked with the bride, we talked for a few hours so I could find out everything i needed to know well ahead of time. i had shooting lists of families. I new which family memebers were the trouble makers and scheduled them accordingly, i scouted the venue and parks ahead of time and had backup plans in case of rain (it did rain)just going over everything forwards and backwards so you can have a halfway decent shot at doing a good job. even though its a family member you still need to treat it like a business and your there to do a job. your not there to pal around and drink and hang out., your there to do a job. you have to plan going in for success. you have to have the equipment for it. I did a $700 wedding and I bought $1600 in lenses to prepare. Your first few wedddings arn't going to be money makers. You will find your going to spend more money making sure you have what you need to get the job done properly. I could have just rented glass but I new I would use it down the line so i dropped the cash on it. Just like after the wedding I realised my backup camera was worthless in a wedding. so I sold it and bought a better backup. You need to just sit down and ask yourself if your really prepared and able to put in the time nessicary to do the job right.


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## birdfish (May 24, 2013)

No guts Robin, I turned it down. 
But I did tell her I would be a second shooter if that was okay with her and the photographer she chooses. 

I honestly don't know my camera frontwards and backwards yet.  I wouldnt be confident that i could switch settings quickly emough and i would miss something. 

Thank you to everyone for all the tips, comments, and advice, it is much appreciated. If I do second shoot, I'll be sure to post some shots.


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## birdfish (Nov 11, 2013)

So I didn't take the job and I'm glad I didn't. I still rented a 24-70 f2.8L just so I could take some shots while I was there. The main photographer was okay with that.  

During the ceremony, I didn't use my flash bc I didn't want to affect any of her shots. And the preacher asked that we not use flash if we didn't have to. But it was DARK in there. I had to shoot 1/50 @ 2.8 and ISO 6400 just to be able to see anything. And I was at a weird angle in the front of the chapel bc the main photographer was shooting from the back down the aisle.  So any of those shots will prob be grainy if not affected by camera blur. I didn't have to stress though bc I didn't accept the job. 

She was shooting with a 5D and 24-105 f4L pretty much the entire time with a speedlite on camera. Before the ceremony I asked her what settings she planned on using. She said she justs shoots in Av mode and changes her ISO. I would have thought shooting in manual would be better for more control of settings but to each his own I guess. I will post a few shots once I edit them. And thanks again for everyone's advice on this situation.


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## gsgary (Nov 11, 2013)

By the time you have rented those lenses you will probably have $5 left for a days work


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## birdfish (Nov 11, 2013)

@gsgary- not sure what you mean?  If I rented all the lenses I mentioned in my original post?  Since I didn't accept I just rented the 24-70 so I could try it out.


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## gsgary (Nov 12, 2013)

birdfish said:


> @gsgary- not sure what you mean?  If I rented all the lenses I mentioned in my original post?  Since I didn't accept I just rented the 24-70 so I could try it out.



Yes you wrote you were going to rent all 4 lenses, i would have rented the 16-35 f2.8 for a crop body (no i wouldn't i have everything i need  )

Sent from my GT-I9100P using Tapatalk 2


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