# Advice on Light Meter



## Commonman (Jan 30, 2007)

I'm using a camera that has not built in light meter.  I've been using a really cheap light meter that gives me a general reading.

I'd like to start using a spotmeter and was looking at a used Pentax Digital Spotmeter.  However, I cannot afford the high price (It was $511).

I think this particular meter may be over priced because Ansel Adams used one like it.

Can anyone recommend a more affordable spotmeter or is this just one of those areas in which you "get what you pay for?"

Please recommend a brand, make, source of a good meter and, discuss meters in general if you like.


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## Big Mike (Jan 30, 2007)

Check out Minolta or Sekonic.

Actually, I think that true 'spot' meters are fairly expensive.  Often, there is a 'spot' attachment that can be purchased separately for various meters...but those attachments are not cheap either.


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## myopia (Jan 31, 2007)

i dont have a light meter in my mamiya 645 either. i am looking into ****. give me some feedback on what u tried out and i will do the same.


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## Torus34 (Jan 31, 2007)

I use an old Luna Pro with a battery converter to permit the use of modern batteries.  The meter is not a 'spot' meter, but it is accurate, dependable and has a very wide range.  As many of my exposures are taken from a tripod, I have the luxury of moving to a particular shadow or highlight area and metering it.  Reading a gray card converts the meter into an 'incidence' meter, if I so choose.  The meter [used, ebay] and battery kit [B&H] combined would fall within your price range.


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## ksmattfish (Jan 31, 2007)

I don't think the price has anything to do with AA.  Light meters aren't in much demand; I mean, these days does even 1 in 1000, or maybe even 10000, photographers own one?  If they could sell one to every single photog they'd be $75 for a really nice one.

Check out Polaris brand meters.  They work fine, and are usually cheaper than the more popular brands.  Make sure you get one that has all the features/modes you'll need in the future too.  It's cheaper to get one with all the metering modes (spot, flash, etc...), than to later end up buying 2 or 3 light meters.


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## Commonman (Feb 3, 2007)

Someone in this forum said light meters are not very much in demand.  Yes, that may be true but I'm still finding that they are not cheap.  The last one two I looked at were $250 for an ambient and $500 for a spot.  What kind of spot meter can I get for $75?  This would be in my price range but would it be better than just using my the light meter built into my Nikon FA3 photomic?  To the person who has the Mamiya, I have not been able to gather too much info at this point.  But I will check back.


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## Steph (Feb 3, 2007)

Before you buy a spot meter make sure you really need one. It is useful under very difficult light conditions or if you use the zone system. I would think that in at least 95% of cases a simpler meter such as the Sekonic L-308s (incident and reflective measurements) is enough and probably much easier to use. However, if you take your exposure very seriously a spot meter is the most accurate solution, if used properly.


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## JIP (Feb 4, 2007)

You can buy a meterd finder for your camera I think this will work 
http://cgi.ebay.com/Mamiya-AE-Meter...2247569QQihZ014QQcategoryZ29976QQcmdZViewItem

but of not I'm sure you can find it somwhere else for a reasonable price


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## Commonman (Feb 13, 2007)

Well, I am thinking about using the zone system.  It makes a lot of sense to me.  I'm also considering using a grey card.  Right now I'm using a very cheap meter but it seems to get me in an okay realm.


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## ksmattfish (Feb 13, 2007)

Commonman said:


> Someone in this forum said light meters are not very much in demand.  Yes, that may be true but I'm still finding that they are not cheap.



My point was that if they were in more demand, manufacturers would make and sell more of them, driving the price lower.  Because they aren't in demand, less are made, and the costs are higher.  It's not a general tool, it's a specialized tool.  

You probably won't find a spot meter for $75, but yes, you can use a 35mm SLR with in-camera meter as a spot meter.  The longer the focal length, the tighter of an area you will be able to meter.


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## usayit (Feb 13, 2007)

I have the Sekonic L-308 flashmate.... has everything I ever needed in a handheld meter.  Probably one of the most affordable but no spotmeter (those are expensive)....  Takes AAAs too...


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## Commonman (Feb 15, 2007)

ks, I would think that using the basic supply and demand economics theory, since there is less of a demand, the supply of USED light meters would be relatively constant and therefore, they would get cheaper, all other things being equal.

I noticed someone else stated that I could use my 35 mm as a spot meter.  This is very interesting.  Would a Nikon FA3 read like a spot meter?  Are you saying it takes light readings from specific areas like a spot meter?


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## benjikan (Feb 15, 2007)

Minolta make a very nice light/flash meter. I am using two of them.  One for a backup.  You can get a spot meter adapter for it.

Ben


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## fotogenik (Feb 15, 2007)

Lightmeters are needed for in studio use with electronic flash.  You just can't in camera meter light that isn't there until the shutter is fired.

Unless somone knows something I am missing.


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## benjikan (Feb 17, 2007)

fotogenik said:


> Lightmeters are needed for in studio use with electronic flash.  You just can't in camera meter light that isn't there until the shutter is fired.
> 
> Unless somone knows something I am missing.




Of course you can use a light-flash meter for use with a camera indoors or outdoors.  Just set your camera to "M" and set according to the light-flash meter reading.  For example if you set you light-flash meter to 200 iso and set the shutter speed it will tell you the aperture.  As you change the shutter speed on the meter it will change the aperture relative to the shutter speed..


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## Majik Imaje (Feb 18, 2007)

and it is very simple.. here is how it works..

throw the light meter into the trash!

Now lets talk, for a bit.

I have owned and used Gossen Luna pro.. wonderful meter, GET ONE!

and you will LEARN so much, without even using it.

Lets go outside. on a sunny day..

I am uisng a luna pro meter and I have it set for 100 ISO

AS i MOVE the meter around all over the place. up down left right
on the beach, in the park, on the streets. I am watchinig the needle

move all over the place. ya know what ?? It isn't moving all that much

in other words.. I already knew all of that without even using a meter.

Outside.. bright sun, distinct shadows.. Well I know that EV in my head

because I kept looking at the luna pro.

EV 15 = 125 sec @f16

Now as I move the luna pro all over the place, I take spot readings and I take this reading and that reading .. it is right around what I already have.

it might go. a stop or even two stops when I pont it into dark areas and get up close to a tree..


but all in all.. I walk around all day long with this one ev for years.!!

and it works. perfectly.

This is what I am trying to say and I know I am not doing a good job yet of explaining it.

Photography has always been a passionate hobby of mine for decades.

4 to be exact so I am speaking with a great deal of experience.

I used to have a huge darkroom for hobby use only..

then i decided to put an add in the news paper..
Color photography classes. Print Your Own color!

I had 25 students. 4th grade to 80 years young!

I have done this for years. I know people that have no idea how to take a light reading or even how to use light meter. and they use a camera with no light meter. .and they go out and take the most gorgous photos immaginable. just by learning EV 15

this is what is going to happen.. When you learn.. (key word) learn
how to "read" the light. this takes practice.

when you learn to do this and you process your images your going to notice one thing. your Negatives are all about the exact same DENSITY

YOUR EXPOSING CONSISTENTLY. 

here ..maybe this will help.. in other words. I used to teach my students.

turn off that light meter and go by what the setting INSIDE the box of film say. like this.









NOW. there are only THREE things that can happen when you press that shutter.

too dark
PERFECT
too light

I promise you. it won't take you long to learn this.! I have taught this to tooooo many people and they get fantastik awesome results.

when I go out to shoot candid personal and sometimes professionaly 

I only expose one frame of film!

because I know what is going to happen from 40 years experience.
I have seen hundreds of people learn this very quickly 

here is how you BEGIN to learn this. DON'T DO THIS for a critical photo shoot.

but go out and take photos and practice..and learn to read the light and JUST USE THE SETTINGS .. LISTED. stay in the sun. then the clouds
then the forests inside dark treed areas..

you have doubts.? then bracket. once you start to see the results

your gonna get more and more confidence in this technique! IT WORKS!


KEEP GOOD RECORDS! I have a friend of mine who has no idea on how to use a 35 mm camera. or even what to do with one.

BUT PUT A MAMIYA RB 67 IN HIS HANDS.. and send him outside.. 

his images are just breathtaking.!! because he learned these settings only.

that is ALL HE KNOWS..







I am using a mamiya rb 67 w/360 mm huge tele lens. I am 50 yards away

I can see the sun. on her right side jacket.. EV 15 BUT... I am using a big

lens that is sorta heavy. i want crisp sharp images. I know I can't use 125 @ F 16 because I just might shake a bit.. 

so I go to 250 and open up to F 11

instead of 125 @ F 16

Just by knowing and UNDERSTANDING the relationships. in one EV

you can re-construct all 22 EV charts in your head! 



EV 15.. LETS look at the whole range

1000......5.6 
500.........8
250........11
*125 @ F 16 . . .125 @ F32 . . .125 @ F 11*
60 ...... 22
30 ..... 32
15 ,,,,,,,45
8
4
2
1

EV 15 100 ISO = the above figures.. what if I want 400 ISO that's ev 17

the figures to the right.. what if I want 64 ISO that's EV 14 

See how easy it is.. to build all these charts.. JUST BY KNOWING ONE VALUE

many people have made small fortunes in photography by getting that one shot that you would have missed if your playing with meters and other things.

LEARN HOW TO SHOOT FROM THE HIP!


then you can instantly RECOGNIZE any light situaton

practice.. your gonna be so happy you learned this!


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## Commonman (Mar 14, 2007)

Majick,

WOW! Thanks for all the info.  It is a lot to process but I will give it a go.

I too have been getting pretty good results from just using common sense.  

The camera I use now has a limited range of shutter speeds and aperatures.  So, on many bright days, I don't have a choice.  Same with darker days.  I have yet to figure out how to use a flash with it since it is an old Rollei.


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## fmw (Mar 14, 2007)

That was bound to happen.  Now you have a feeling for the sunny 16 rule that you can read about in any Kodak film box.  But it won't help for difficult lighting situations.  The sunny 16 business doesn't account for subject reflectance.  It is a guess at best.  You might get away with it with negative film.  But not with transparencies or digital where you need to be close to correct.

A spot meter won't help either unless you know what you are doing with one.  It is used primarily to measure dynamic range for devotees of Ansel Adams Zone system.  My recommendation would be to forget the spot meter and just get a decent hand held meter from one of the major makers like Gossen or Sekonic that has both reflected and incident modes.  New ones should be $250 or less and used ones should be well under $100.

Incident reading is the most accurate since it isn't affected by subject reflectance.  It may not be the best choice for landscapes but can be used with any kind of people photography or most subjects for which you are not at infinity focus.  The reflected meter will work like an averaging meter built into an SLR.  Most pro photographers use this kind of meter when they need a hand held.  A few use spot but it is really more time consuming than necessary.  Experience will teach you how to adjust for what the reflected meter recommends.  You can use the incident meter readings as gospel.  Don't lose any sleep over it.


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## Flash Harry (Mar 14, 2007)

I have the sekonic 308b and use it in studio and with my old bronica, its excellent and good value at around $200, Majik's post is as near as dammit though, in the olden days (1970) P&S cameras came with three settings, one was a sun, then a sun & cloud, then cloud, all these cameras were set to 1/125 sec shutter speed and the three settings were to give a decent exposure at f16=sun f11=suncloud f8=cloudy, the shutter was set to this speed as this is about right for a still or walking subject to be rendered sharp(ish)


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## Commonman (Apr 13, 2007)

I was looking on e-bay and saw a "Flash Light Meter"  Is this meter only useful for flash photography?  I will check out the recommendations mentioned above.


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## Commonman (Apr 13, 2007)

*Just an adendum to my earlier note or question.  I am seeing a *
*Gossen Electronic Flash Meter Sixtron 2 on ebay for a starting bid of $.99.  Is this meter only useful for flash photography?*

There is also a Sekonic Digi Lite F Model L-328 light exposure meter thats currently going for $91.

Should I go for it?


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## Commonman (Apr 13, 2007)

i just bid $120 for the Sekonic and it adjusted my bid down to 118.  I may have bought it.  I guess it just depends on the competition.


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## usayit (Apr 13, 2007)

Thats about the longest explaination of the Sunny - 16 rule I have ever seen.  I use it too... but its far from perfect.. more like a rule of thumb.  1/ISO @ f1/16 on a sunny day.  The only time I have relied on the Sunny-16 rule is when I forgot my meter or if the battery has run low.  You are better off taking a reading with a light meter and working aperture/shutter inverse relationship.

If you are planning to work flash photography, you should consider a meter with flash compatibility.


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## Mike_E (Apr 14, 2007)

Here is a Great spot meter for you- A Nikon (F)N8008s with just about any lens.  Say an old manual 50m maybe an 'E' (inexpensive but great optics).
Whichever lens you get with it make sure it is an AI, AI-S (or has been AI'd) or auto-focus so that you wont damage the camera.

The 8008s uses AA batterys and with a manual lens should run you around $75-$100 if you shop carefully.

A great spot meter that doubles as a great camera for 1/5th the price!

mike


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## RacePhoto (Apr 15, 2007)

usayit said:


> Thats about the longest explaination of the Sunny - 16 rule I have ever seen.  I use it too... but its far from perfect.. more like a rule of thumb.  1/ISO @ f1/16 on a sunny day.  The only time I have relied on the Sunny-16 rule is when I forgot my meter or if the battery has run low.  You are better off taking a reading with a light meter and working aperture/shutter inverse relationship.
> 
> If you are planning to work flash photography, you should consider a meter with flash compatibility.



And perhaps the shortest? Which is much easier to remember.

I don't have a clue what I was using, probably some old folding 620 camera from the 30s or 40s. All I knew was bright Sunny day f/8 @ 1/125. That's all I knew... :lmao: Must have read it on the back of the camera or something.

Must have had some slow old B&W film and if I remember the cameras had about five shutter speeds plus T and B. Talk about simple! Now you explained why it worked.

The easiest thing I can add is, if you are going to use a meter and take all kinds of readings, you probably only need to take two.

Read the shadows, read the highlights, expose somewhere in between depending on what you want the picture to look like.

Strong back light, expose more for the shadows. Bright lit or light subject, adjust for the highlights, so they don't wash out. That's it.


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## Paul Ron (Apr 16, 2007)

I have a Pentax V analog spotmerter i recently bought for $100 shipped. It is wonderful to be using a spot again after 30 years without one. I was using a Luna Pro SBC with the spot attachment but it really isn't the same. If you shop around and keep an eye out in the classifieds you will find an analog spotmeter since most people are shifing to digital and dumping their old stuff. 

Check out this classified in PhotoNet, http://www.photo.net/gc/domain-multi?sort_by=posted&category=Light+Meters  there are many old timers selling good equipement, everyone is honest, at least I haven't met any dishonest folks there yet.


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## Commonman (May 18, 2007)

I got myself a Sekonic incident light meter.  It measures foot-candles.  I noticed that in the instructions it says, when using it as a reflective light meter (there's a special attachment for this purpose), the read out is "only for reference" since foot-candles are used only for incident light.  Can somebody explain this?  I get the impression this Sekonic is no good as a reflective light meter.  Also, I am a little disappointed because the meter does not seem to read very low levels of light.  Is this because the light sensor is just not that sensitive?


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## usayit (May 18, 2007)

Which Sekonic?  (they have been making lightmeters for decades).

"only for reference" probably means that the light measured from a reflective surface is going to be influenced by the surface from which you are measuring.  In other words... measure reflective light from a dark surface will yield an exposure that will tend to over expose.  Measuring reflective light from a light surface will yield an exposure that will tend to under expose.


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## Torus34 (May 19, 2007)

You might find the following worth a read. There's a section providing a bit of information on the use of light meters, the Zone system and grey cards.

http://www.thephotoforum.com/node/47


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## Commonman (May 24, 2007)

usayit said:


> Which Sekonic? (they have been making lightmeters for decades).
> 
> "only for reference" probably means that the light measured from a reflective surface is going to be influenced by the surface from which you are measuring. In other words... measure reflective light from a dark surface will yield an exposure that will tend to over expose. Measuring reflective light from a light surface will yield an exposure that will tend to under expose.


 
It's a Sekonic L-398 (not a "digital" read-out). It has a needle which points to a number. Then, you have to turn the dial to that number and look a the little numbers on the wheel. It's not very user friendly.

Yes, this meter is primarily to be used NOT to measure the reflected light but, rather, the incident light (I think). So, instead of pointing it towards the subject (like with your Gossen Luna Pro), you hold it as near to the subject as possible and point it back towards the camera. Now, this is not very useful if you want to take a picture of a distant subject, say a mountain or a bridge that is thousands of feet away. 

There is a little attachment that replaces the "lumisphere" and looks like a black circle or bottle cap with holes punched in it. This supposedly is to be used for reflected light measurements - however, as mentioned above, the reading is in foot-candles and is "for reference only." Using this attachment, it appears to NOT be very sensitive to low light conditions: for example, inside a house or after sunset. 

I'm thinking about getting a Gossen Luna Pro to use in conjunction with the Seikonic....or something with a silicon cell, which I hear is the most sensetive to low light conditions.


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