# High Key???



## RachaelRenaesPhotos (Mar 25, 2013)

I was wondering how to get the high key look outdoors? It makes the skin very white yet pleasing. I'm in LOVE with this look. I am a natural light photographer. I see this everywhere around where I live, I'm not to sure if it is just the exposure or if they are using a external flash with a diffuser. Either way no one will share their secret! I have looked all over the internet and YouTube and continue to have no results. Please HELP  It'd be much appreciated.


----------



## DGMPhotography (Mar 26, 2013)

Well, pretty much anything can be accomplished in post production nowadays. Could you post some links to examples of what you're talking about?


----------



## tirediron (Mar 26, 2013)

Stop being a "natural light" photographer and become a photograhper.  Learn how to use and control "man-made" light sources.  Sorry, but it really is that simple.


----------



## AaronLLockhart (Mar 26, 2013)

tirediron said:


> Stop being a "natural light" photographer and become a photograhper.  Learn how to use and control "man-made" light sources.  Sorry, but it really is that simple.



I've always been confused when photographers call themselves "natural light" photographers, because if they are indoors, they use the lighting from lamps, etc. 

I think what they really mean to say is "I'm a 'I'm scared to use external flashes, strobes, and studio lighting because I don't understand it' type of photographer."

I agree. You're not going to get high key photography without some source of man manipulated light source. Even if you use the sun as a backlight, you're still going to need fill flash.


----------



## 2WheelPhoto (Mar 26, 2013)

tirediron said:


> *Stop being a "natural light" photographer and become a photographer.*  Learn how to use and control "man-made" light sources.  Sorry, but it really is that simple.



And that's putting it NICELY!


----------



## 2WheelPhoto (Mar 26, 2013)

Is this you?  Rachel Renee Photography - Fashion Photography, NYC


----------



## amolitor (Mar 26, 2013)

High key outdoors is the same as high key indoors, EXCEPT that you will need to balance with ambient light. Think of it as two separate exposures, one from the ambient, natural light, and the other from the flash(es).

You'll set the aperture for the flash exposure, and then set the shutter speed for the natural light exposure. The shutter speed should be "correct" for the natural light exposure, so the background doesn't look weird and dark. Your aperture controls the amount of flash the camera sees, since the strobe much faster than the shutter, shutter speed doesn't matter. You probably want to underexpose the "flash exposure" a bit, since you're just looking to brighten up the skin, not provide all the light for the subject.

You can start out with on camera flash in a fill flash setting, or manually dialed down to quite a low setting. You can diffuse the on camera flash with a bit of tissue loosely taped over it, or with a variety of home-made or purchased diffusers.

Moving on, you can use two lights, one on each side set at around 45 degrees, to start to get the classic "high key" look.

The hard part is balancing the flash and the natural light. Be gentle with the flash, otherwise you start to look like cheesy and fake.

ETA: Flash is just a tool, yelling at someone for not knowing how to use it isn't very productive or mature.


----------



## KmH (Mar 26, 2013)

High key means a very low lighting ratio between the background and the subject. High key is often shot on a white background.
So, high key is as much about lighting the background as it is about lighting the subject, which is why high key can't be done very effectively without quite a bit of supplemental lighting.

Lighting ratio in photography refers to the amount of key light (the main source of light from which shadows fall) to the fill light (the light that fills in the shadow areas). The higher the lighting ratio, the higher the contrast of the image; the lower the ratio, the lower the contrast. Since the lighting ratio is the ratio of the light levels on the brightest lit to the least lit parts of the subject, and the brightest lit are lit by both key (K) and fill (F), therefore the lighting ratio is sometimes expressed as (K+F):F although for contrast ratios of 4:1 or more (high lighting ratio), then K:F is sufficiently accurate.

Being able to consistently make high quality available light photographs requires photographic lighting technique knowledge. The use of a key light, fill, accent light, rim light, side light, etc is still required. Your key light can be the Sun or the sky if you are using open shade, and your fill can be from a reflector, but the available light photographer has a lot less control over the placement, color temperature, quality, and intensity of the light used.

Doug Box's Available Light Photography: Techniques for Digital Photographers 
Available Light: Photographic Techniques for Using Existing Light Sources
Lighting Techniques for High Key Portrait Photography

*Online resources*: High key and Low key lighting tutorial
The Complete Beginner?s Guide to Shooting High Key
simple high key lighting photography tips


----------



## amolitor (Mar 26, 2013)

High Key is actually a rather strange term. Despite the fact that it suggests a bright key light, what it really means is low ratio lighting. Originally it was 1:1 lighting, and in fact 1:1:1 (left, center, right). Nowadays the term has evolved to something a little more vague and general:

- bright, a lot of whites
- often a white background
- lowered constrast, shadows shallow to non-existant (which is the thing closest to the original)

That's what I suggested using two strobes, one on each side, specially to brighten while retaining a relatively low contrast look.


----------



## o hey tyler (Mar 26, 2013)

2WheelPhoto said:


> Is this you?  Rachel Renee Photography - Fashion Photography, NYC



The first and last names are spelled different and the OP is from Missouri. Try harder next time.


----------



## 2WheelPhoto (Mar 26, 2013)

o hey tyler said:


> 2WheelPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > Is this you?  Rachel Renee Photography - Fashion Photography, NYC
> ...



Or perhaps I'll be more attentive before pasting and asking about google search results - thanks


----------



## cgipson1 (Mar 26, 2013)

2WheelPhoto said:


> Is this you?  Rachel Renee Photography - Fashion Photography, NYC



That is not her... this is her:  https://www.facebook.com/rachael.renaes.photography


----------



## AaronLLockhart (Mar 26, 2013)

cgipson1 said:


> That is not her... this is her:  https://www.facebook.com/rachael.renaes.photography



I'm no weatherman, but I predict some flaming coming in the near future.


----------



## kundalini (Mar 26, 2013)

High Key portraits are also defined by having the entire frame with no elements lower than middle grey.  Therefor, subjects with dark hair, clothing, shadows, etc., really do not not constitute a High Key portrait.


----------



## AaronLLockhart (Mar 26, 2013)

kundalini said:


> High Key portraits are also defined by having the entire frame with no elements lower than middle grey.  Therefor, subjects with dark hair, clothing, shadows, etc., really do not not constitute a High Key portrait.



So by your own definition, the only way to have a true high key image is to shoot a full frame shot of an 18% gray white balance card? Lol


----------



## terri (Mar 26, 2013)

AaronLLockhart said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> > Stop being a "natural light" photographer and become a photograhper.  Learn how to use and control "man-made" light sources.  Sorry, but it really is that simple.
> ...



I'm getting really sick of the judgmental, non-helpful replies to a question from a beginner in the_ Beginner's_ forum!   She didn't post this question in the Professional forum, and she's not shooting her first wedding with a camera she was given last week.  What, now you all have to roam the internet to see her photos before you decide whether or not she's a good enough "beginner" to answer her question?    :er:     

Lay off or get out of the Beginner's forum if that's all you have to offer.   :thumbdown:


----------



## tirediron (Mar 26, 2013)

amolitor said:


> ...ETA: Flash is just a tool, yelling at someone for not knowing how to use it isn't very productive or mature.


I don't think anyone was yelling, and I would suggest that the OP's use of the term "natural light photographer" is one which is normally used as a cover by those who don't know or want to learn how to use flash.  Saying, "I'm not familiar with the use of flash and want to learn how to shoot high key" is going to yield VASTLY different responses.


----------



## cgipson1 (Mar 26, 2013)

AaronLLockhart said:


> kundalini said:
> 
> 
> > High Key portraits are also defined by having the entire frame with no elements lower than middle grey.  Therefor, subjects with dark hair, clothing, shadows, etc., really do not not constitute a High Key portrait.
> ...



You might want to re-read Kundalini's post... that is NOT what he said!  lol!


----------



## AaronLLockhart (Mar 26, 2013)

terri said:


> I'm getting really sick of the judgmental, non-helpful replies to a question from a beginner in the Beginner's forum!   She didn't post this question in the Professional forum, and she's not shooting her first wedding with a camera she was given last week.  What, now you all have to roam the internet to see her photos before you decide whether or not she's a good enough "beginner" to answer her question?    :er:
> 
> Lay off or get out of the Beginner's forum if that's all you have to offer.   :thumbdown:



Terri, my post wasn't to belittle her. It was just a statement saying that I don't understand why some photographers sugar coat the reality. It's completely alright that she doesn't use strobes or flashes because she doesn't understand them yet.

However, get to understand them. Don't just sit back and subject yourself to ambient light only just because you are intimidated.


----------



## tirediron (Mar 26, 2013)

AaronLLockhart said:


> kundalini said:
> 
> 
> > High Key portraits are also defined by having the entire frame with no elements lower than middle grey. Therefor, subjects with dark hair, clothing, shadows, etc., really do not not constitute a High Key portrait.
> ...


That doesn't make any sense at all...


----------



## cgipson1 (Mar 26, 2013)

Rachel... you WILL need external light sources (Flash!) to successfully shoot high key, especially outdoors. These may help:

12 Unmissable Tutorials on High Key Photography


----------



## AaronLLockhart (Mar 26, 2013)

cgipson1 said:


> You might want to re-read Kundalini's post... that is NOT what he said!  lol!



That was a joke. I figured most would have caught that.


----------



## cgipson1 (Mar 26, 2013)

tirediron said:


> AaronLLockhart said:
> 
> 
> > kundalini said:
> ...



I agree... Kundalini's explanation was dead on... classic!


----------



## cgipson1 (Mar 26, 2013)

AaronLLockhart said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> > You might want to re-read Kundalini's post... that is NOT what he said!  lol!
> ...



Well.. I guess John and I both missed that...


----------



## AaronLLockhart (Mar 26, 2013)

cgipson1 said:


> Well.. I guess John and I both missed that...



You know... No elements of anything except middle gray.... 18% gray.... Might as well shoot nothing but the gray card.. Ha ha. He he. Joke.

Ok maybe not so funny now that I go back and read it myself.


----------



## cgipson1 (Mar 26, 2013)

AaronLLockhart said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> > Well.. I guess John and I both missed that...
> ...



Actually there are many high key images that have no 18% gray in them... 18% gray is the starting point, with pure white being the other end.


----------



## terri (Mar 26, 2013)

AaronLLockhart said:


> terri said:
> 
> 
> > I'm getting really sick of the judgmental, non-helpful replies to a question from a beginner in the Beginner's forum!   She didn't post this question in the Professional forum, and she's not shooting her first wedding with a camera she was given last week.  What, now you all have to roam the internet to see her photos before you decide whether or not she's a good enough "beginner" to answer her question?    :er:
> ...



Who said she was intimidated?   Not her - she did exactly what you are suggested by coming to a photography forum, post a question in the Beginner's forum and say "Please help me understand."     That's not my definition of sugar coating reality.   

What WILL intimidate a new photographer is getting *****-slapped for _not _understanding what she's asking about!    

I repeat: if you don't want to simply reply to the question, don't post anything.


----------



## kundalini (Mar 26, 2013)

cgipson1 said:


> AaronLLockhart said:
> 
> 
> > cgipson1 said:
> ...



^^^ What he said.


----------



## RachaelRenaesPhotos (Mar 27, 2013)

2WheelPhoto said:


> Is this you? Rachel Renee Photography - Fashion Photography, NYC


 no. I don't have a website. and my name isn't spelt like that at all. RachAEl RenAE


----------



## RachaelRenaesPhotos (Mar 27, 2013)

amolitor said:


> High key outdoors is the same as high key indoors, EXCEPT that you will need to balance with ambient light. Think of it as two separate exposures, one from the ambient, natural light, and the other from the flash(es).
> 
> You'll set the aperture for the flash exposure, and then set the shutter speed for the natural light exposure. The shutter speed should be "correct" for the natural light exposure, so the background doesn't look weird and dark. Your aperture controls the amount of flash the camera sees, since the strobe much faster than the shutter, shutter speed doesn't matter. You probably want to underexpose the "flash exposure" a bit, since you're just looking to brighten up the skin, not provide all the light for the subject.
> 
> ...



thank you! This is the first time I've read anything that made sense and helped me. It's whatever if they want to yell at a 16 year old for asking a question because I didn't know, its ok :thumbup: I'll use all of their info anyways


----------



## RachaelRenaesPhotos (Mar 27, 2013)

KmH said:


> High key means a very low lighting ratio between the background and the subject. High key is often shot on a white background.
> So, high key is as much about lighting the background as it is about lighting the subject, which is why high key can't be done very effectively without quite a bit of supplemental lighting.
> 
> Lighting ratio in photography refers to the amount of key light (the main source of light from which shadows fall) to the fill light (the light that fills in the shadow areas). The higher the lighting ratio, the higher the contrast of the image; the lower the ratio, the lower the contrast. Since the lighting ratio is the ratio of the light levels on the brightest lit to the least lit parts of the subject, and the brightest lit are lit by both key (K) and fill (F), therefore the lighting ratio is sometimes expressed as (K+F):F although for contrast ratios of 4:1 or more (high lighting ratio), then K:F is sufficiently accurate.
> ...



This helped so much, I will get on the links and read every single one of them! thank you  :thumbsup:


----------



## RachaelRenaesPhotos (Mar 27, 2013)

AaronLLockhart said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> > That is not her... this is her: https://www.facebook.com/rachael.renaes.photography
> ...



Hahaha, lets fight about how my name is spelt! And to the nice man who linked my photography page, thank you  its much appreciated! Maybe people will get on there and give me some advice :thumbsup:


----------



## RachaelRenaesPhotos (Mar 27, 2013)

terri said:


> AaronLLockhart said:
> 
> 
> > tirediron said:
> ...



I absolutely love this


----------



## RachaelRenaesPhotos (Mar 27, 2013)

tirediron said:


> amolitor said:
> 
> 
> > ...ETA: Flash is just a tool, yelling at someone for not knowing how to use it isn't very productive or mature.
> ...



I don't mind learning how to use a flash. And I said that because anytime I started a thread somebody asked what kind of light I use. I have never used a flash, no, but I am eager to learn!


----------



## RachaelRenaesPhotos (Mar 27, 2013)

AaronLLockhart said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> > Stop being a "natural light" photographer and become a photograhper. Learn how to use and control "man-made" light sources. Sorry, but it really is that simple.
> ...



If i'm indoors I use window light. Completely natural. I'm definitely not afraid by any means to use any of what you listed. I say that because I use the sun as my light source. I am however eager to learn. So please don't assume things. But thank you for your ending piece of info. I'll use it  :thumbsup:


----------



## 2WheelPhoto (Mar 27, 2013)

cgipson1 said:


> 2WheelPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > Is this you?  Rachel Renee Photography - Fashion Photography, NYC
> ...



TY


----------



## tirediron (Mar 27, 2013)

tirediron said:


> Stop being a "natural light" photographer and become a photograhper. Learn how to use and control "man-made" light sources. Sorry, but it really is that simple.


It appears that my rather direct comment early in the thread has offended some. When I made this comment, I was not aware of the fact that the OP was as young as she was; (it was my erroneous impression that she was in fact a university/college student charging for work), and for that I apologize, and will temper my earlier statement with the following: Embrace all aspects of photography, especially those which have to do with the control of light in any form. The use of [so-called] natural light is indeed an area where one should be proficient, but even more important is understanding how to use light from all sources.


----------



## AaronLLockhart (Mar 27, 2013)

RachaelRenaesPhotos said:


> AaronLLockhart said:
> 
> 
> > tirediron said:
> ...



 I'm glad you're willing to learn. 

I was just implying that I don't like the term "Natural light photographer," because even "natural light photographers" get put into circumstances where you are using anything but "natural light." Therefore, you're not ONLY a "natural light photographer." You're simply a photographer.

That's all.


----------



## RachaelRenaesPhotos (Mar 27, 2013)

Once again, you ASSUMED things. Just stop. I went with my cousin to a wedding with me and SHE took all of those for your info, I helped her pose and what not. She asked me to edit them in photoshop since she didn't have it. So again, I use natural light. that is all. https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.379152598824783.87979.137868819619830&type=3


----------



## pixmedic (Mar 27, 2013)




----------



## AaronLLockhart (Mar 27, 2013)

RachaelRenaesPhotos said:


> Once again, you ASSUMED things. Just stop. I went with my cousin to a wedding with me and SHE took all of those for your info, I helped her pose and what not. She asked me to edit them in photoshop since she didn't have it. So again, I use natural light. that is all. https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.379152598824783.87979.137868819619830&type=3



Of course I assumed they were your photographs, they are in YOUR portfolio. every single person that sees those images assumes they are yours.

Why would you be using photographs that your cousin shot in your portfolio?


----------



## RachaelRenaesPhotos (Mar 27, 2013)

AaronLLockhart said:


> RachaelRenaesPhotos said:
> 
> 
> > Once again, you ASSUMED things. Just stop. I went with my cousin to a wedding with me and SHE took all of those for your info, I helped her pose and what not. She asked me to edit them in photoshop since she didn't have it. So again, I use natural light. that is all. https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.379152598824783.87979.137868819619830&type=3
> ...



I gave her the credit when I made the CD and I gave her credit in the album so I'm pretty sure people don't think they are mine. I don't know how to recreate her watermark so I used mine so they weren't passed off as some random strangers work. They are on Facebook because the bride asked them to be. But I'm not going to argue about this. All I asked was how to create high key images but instead I'm arguing about a never ending subject. I have never used a flash but I will soon try to learn how. Thank you for your advice, but I'm not replying to anything more you say.


----------

