# How to start a professional photography business overnight...



## Kerbouchard (Jun 1, 2012)

Just in case anybody was wondering...

How to Start a Photography Business&#8230; "Overnight" | Free photography tips


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## Bitter Jeweler (Jun 1, 2012)

Spam!

Reported!


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## Kerbouchard (Jun 1, 2012)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> Spam!
> 
> Reported!


Seriously?  I don't see you could see this as spam...


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## cgipson1 (Jun 1, 2012)

Funny.. it says FREE Photography tips at top.. and then charges money for the videos! I would call that SPAM if it had been posted by someone that would financially gain from this. Are you making money off it, Kerb?

This is a smart MWAC... she realizes this is an easier way to make money than delivering crappy photos! Take advantage of all the other MWACS! Typical BS.. you don't need skill, just a camera with AUTO! lol!


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## Kerbouchard (Jun 1, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> Funny.. it says FREE Photography tips at top.. and then charges money for the videos! I would call that SPAM if it had been posted by someone that would financially gain from this. Are you making money off it, Kerb?
> 
> This is a smart MWAC... she realizes this is an easier way to make money than delivering crappy photos! Take advantage of all the other MWACS! Typical BS.. you don't need skill, just a camera with AUTO! lol!



I actually saw it posted on facebook from Missy Mwac.  She's fun to follow...especially if you like Bacon.

Just to be clear, I don't recommend anybody pay money to this site, or any other, in the hopes that it will turn you into a pro overnight.

I just thought it was a humorous claim...kind of like the pill that you put in your gas tank to allow it to run on water.


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## imagemaker46 (Jun 1, 2012)

I have the secret to making a million dollars.  Mail me a $1 and self addressed stamped envelop and I'll send you the secret.


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## SCraig (Jun 1, 2012)

I'm gonna order TWO of them so I can go pro in HALF a night!


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## Kerbouchard (Jun 1, 2012)

SCraig said:


> I'm gonna order TWO of them so I can go pro in HALF a night!



That's an awesome plan...Talk about taking the fast track.


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## o hey tyler (Jun 1, 2012)

I am shooting a wedding tomorrow, so I might as well hop on this while the night is young!


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## tirediron (Jun 1, 2012)

imagemaker46 said:
			
		

> I have the secret to making a million dollars.  Mail me a $1 and self addressed stamped envelop and I'll send you the secret.



He's full of it!  I have the real plan, and it only costs 99 cents!!!!


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## Kerbouchard (Jun 1, 2012)

tirediron said:


> imagemaker46 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If I buy both, does that mean I will make two million?


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## manaheim (Jun 1, 2012)

tirediron said:


> imagemaker46 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You guys are clearly bargain basement.  Anyone who's anyone knows you gotta spend money to make money, and knowledge is highly valuable.  Clearly, if what you have to offer is only worth $1 (or $.99), then what you are offering is crap.

I have much higher quality information available for $10.


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## Kerbouchard (Jun 2, 2012)

Just so it's clear, I posted your site as an example of what not to do.  Maybe it's your catchphrase that throws me off, but all too often, we see a guy pick up a new camera and the next day they are a 'professional photographer'.  Your site seems to claim to be able to turn somebody into a professional overnight.

If it took you two years to create and is actually something worthwhile, it's not something that somebody is going to pick up overnight.

Personally, I find that claim a bit pretentious.  I do, however, appreciate you joining to give your side of it.

Maybe your site is the best thing since sliced bread...and maybe, just maybe, there really is a Nigerian Prince out there that wants to send me a bunch of money.



RememberYours said:


> Hey guys- I'm Bethany, the owner of the Photographer Overnight site.  Just found this pingback to my site and wanted to know what the conversation was about.  "Photographer Overnight" is just a catchy phrase for the way I broke into the industry so fast.  I'm not sure why people assume it's a "get rich scheme" because of the name.  I offer tons of free tutorials on the site, if you look around, you might actually like them.  I don't teach people to point and shoot on auto.  I take beginners who are using auto, and show them how to really use their camera and get better pictures.  But there are so many programs out there teaching people how to take better pictures, I thought it was unique that my program goes beyond that by teaching people the business aspect of photography, and how to actually get out there and get photo sessions.  There are a lot of people taking great pictures, and they aren't getting paid for them.  I show people how to start making money out of their hobby.  Thanks for sharing my link, Kerbouchard. I don't know him, and he's not associated with the site so obviously it's not spam.  But thanks for starting a conversation about the program because I'd like people to know it's not some scheme to take people's money.  This program has been 2 years in the making, and a lot of sweat and hard work on my part.  I legitimately want to help people take their photography hobby and turn it into a career, and everyone I've helped has been extremely appreciative.


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## morganza (Jun 2, 2012)

Quite facinating, thanks!


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## imagemaker46 (Jun 2, 2012)

Is there a web site where we can look at the images that you have shot?  It's all well and good to lay down a bunch of words, anyone on this forum could do that, but few would have the images to back it up.  Maybe just a cross section of what was shot two years ago and more current images would be great.  You must have had a background in photography before you picked up a camera two years ago and suddenly became a professional with clients instantly.


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## imagemaker46 (Jun 2, 2012)

Maybe it's just me, but you seem to have a serious issue with horizon lines, not the intentional ones, I understand that. It's all the other ones that should be straight.  From what I looked at, these aren't really outstanding wedding images, there are some very nice ones, but i've looked at better on this forum, and the amateurs on here aren't pushing "How to Videos" claming an overstated greatness.


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## imagemaker46 (Jun 2, 2012)

I should have mentioned that I will give you the business sense to market the videos, there are a lot of amateurs out there that must just suck this stuff up, the professionals know the difference, they also know that you don't good overnight, or as was mentioned, it doesn't take 20 years to be good in photography.  

It takes longer than 2 years to be great though


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## imagemaker46 (Jun 2, 2012)

First of all I agree with what you have just said. What I raised is that you are selling a package of dvds that amateurs believe will turn them into money making professionals within days.  When you are posting images that have the very basic mistake of not having straight vertical or horizontal lines in the photos. If your clients don't know the difference it really doesn't matter.  You avoided mentioning any of this in the e-mail you just posted.  

What you are pushing is misleading to amateurs  that dream of making instant money with a camera, and as a professional you should know that.

When you decided two years ago to become an overnight professional what kind of background did you have that gave you the skills and experience to call yourself a professional?


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## tirediron (Jun 2, 2012)

Maybe one day photography will have accreditation _*requirements....  *_


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## manaheim (Jun 3, 2012)

Oh my...


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## imagemaker46 (Jun 4, 2012)

It seems I must be wrong about this thread, over 500 views and yet none of the wedding photographers on here, amateur or professional have anything to say.  I guess this must be the kind of weddings you are all used to shooting, or haven't found fault in any of the wedding photographs.  Doesn't say much about what people on here find acceptable.


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## manaheim (Jun 4, 2012)

I just haven't had a chance to look at the site.  Granted, I'm one if the lesser wedding guys on here.


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## manaheim (Jun 4, 2012)

Hm.

So I went and looked at the site.  I dunno... it struck me as a little gauche...?  Low brow?  I mean the video shows a segment with money raining from the sky.  But... really?... meh.  She has a business going, and businesses are intended to make money.  Not all businesses do things that those of us who are passionate about this or that would necessarily agree with, but they are businesses... you sell what people want to buy, right?

Here on TPF we sort of have the luxury of looking down our noses at those who would be "impure" or not work "above board"... particularly since a lot of us on here are not pros, or (like myself) only part-time pros.   But the reality is ... well, ther reality is that it's not reality.

All this said, the owner of this business has seemed somewhat defensive about it... and to me, that usually means she has something to be defensive about, and this recent post on her site seems very influenced by her being put on the hot-seat here, and VERY defensive besides.

The Photography Police | Free photography tips


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## orljustin (Jun 4, 2012)

A great way to make money in Photography is to find a way to sell something to other Photographers.  It looks like a really experienced video crew was hired to produce this so it looks "real" ( a website designer should have been hired too, instead of an out-of-the-box wordpress install ).  However, all I saw in the videos was a person with a dslr, and occasionally an on-camera flash.  No lighting modiers, off-camera lighting, reflectors, anything.  The images shown are adequate for someone who knows how to work their camera, but I don't know about taking business advice from someone who had no experience and got lucky...  Sorry.


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## cgipson1 (Jun 4, 2012)

RememberYours said:


> Here is a small selection of weddings I have shot at different venues in Utah. Specialty Utah Wedding Photography » Utah Wedding Venues



Weddings aren't easy! It takes several years to become a proficient photographer (just the technical aspect) and even longer for most to really grasp the non-technical aspects, and use them well. A wedding is a mixture of technical / non-technical, and also a lot of people and business skills also.

Based on the blown highlights in dresses, cakes, etc, the blown skies, the different skin tones for the same people, and other similar issues.. I would say that you are still in the technical learning stage. So while you may be very good at the Business aspect of it (even though some might question the ethical side of what you are doing), I don't think you should be "teaching" other amateurs yet. But that is my opinion, although I am sure there are others here who would agree....


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## Bitter Jeweler (Jun 4, 2012)

manaheim said:


> Hm.
> 
> So I went and looked at the site.  I dunno... it struck me as a little gauche...?  Low brow?  I mean the video shows a segment with money raining from the sky.  But... really?... meh.  She has a business going, and businesses are intended to make money.  Not all businesses do things that those of us who are passionate about this or that would necessarily agree with, but they are businesses... you sell what people want to buy, right?
> 
> ...



Yeah. I come away with this directed precisely at her target market, which is a similar defense we see from beginning/learning "pros" here. 
"the customer is happy, and that's all that matters", right?

Exactly!

People love $2 burgers, and other people love $12 burgers. 
The people that love $12 burgers, don't eat at McDonalds
Some people have taste, others don't. Some people are driven by price, others driven by quality.

I think you all can pick out precisely which market Bethany is speaking to. Cantcha?

Camera
Facebook page
Logo
MARKETING!


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## KmH (Jun 4, 2012)

Jeez! I didn't even click on the link so I wouldn't add a hit to the web site.

This is the kind of link I just ignore, rather than posting it and helping to promote it.


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## imagemaker46 (Jun 4, 2012)

With the post on her site about the photography police it does seem that she has taken issue with comments made. A kick in the reality butt perhaps.  I don't know this person, don't really care to, but she has dodged any of my questions regarding her skills and experience, and how she became the "overnight sensation" that she claims to be.  It is people like this that are at the root of everything that is wrong with the direction photography has gone.   I have respect for the great wedding photographers out there, that have put in the years to get to a certain level, it is like any field of photography, it takes time and patience to become good enough to start a business and do well in it. It's not something you can do overnight after buying a camera the same day.


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## cgipson1 (Jun 4, 2012)

imagemaker46 said:


> With the post on her site about the photography police it does seem that she has taken issue with comments made. A kick in the reality butt perhaps.  I don't know this person, don't really care to, but she has dodged any of my questions regarding her skills and experience, and how she became the "overnight sensation" that she claims to be.  It is people like this that are at the root of everything that is wrong with the direction photography has gone.   I have respect for the great wedding photographers out there, that have put in the years to get to a certain level, it is like any field of photography, it takes time and patience to become good enough to start a business and do well in it. It's not something you can do overnight after buying a camera the same day.



I agree.. just another "Gold Brick" or "Brooklyn Bridge" sales technique.. to take advantage of the hopeful and gullible.


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## KmH (Jun 4, 2012)

And there is no shortage of hopeful and gullible people out there. 

Common sense is becoming less and less common. :er:


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## cgipson1 (Jun 4, 2012)

KmH said:


> And there is no shortage of hopeful and gullible people out there.
> 
> Common sense is becoming less and less common. :er:



Yep! She would probably do well selling used cars too!


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## paigew (Jun 4, 2012)

I really think it is funny how people here are so against photography businesses. Seriously, what is wrong with charging for a service people want/ask for? Should there be a skills test saying "if you pass you can charge?". Some people are fine with 8$ hair cuts at supercuts. Some people pay 100$ at specialty salons. Why is it the people who make money off photography always get looked down on? Some people can't afford 1200 family sessions and are perfectly happy with spending 200$. Is that so bad? Should the photographer and/or the clients be shunned? Should they turn down opportunities to make money for their families for fear of other photographers looking down on them? How good is good enough?


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## imagemaker46 (Jun 4, 2012)

paigew said:


> I really think it is funny how people here are so against photography businesses. Seriously, what is wrong with charging for a service people want/ask for? Should there be a skills test saying "if you pass you can charge?". Some people are fine with 8$ hair cuts at supercuts. Some people pay 100$ at specialty salons. Why is it the people who make money off photography always get looked down on? Some people can't afford 1200 family sessions and are perfectly happy with spending 200$. Is that so bad? Should the photographer and/or the clients be shunned? Should they turn down opportunities to make money for their families for fear of other photographers looking down on them? How good is good enough?



How does what you are saying have anything to do with this thread? I'm a professional photographer and I have been for a very long time, and I have been charging people for the work tha I do.

This thread is about someone offering videos to magically turn a camera owner into a professional overnight.  Making a statement like that is unrealistic and misleading.


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## tmjjk (Jun 4, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


> I am shooting a wedding tomorrow, so I might as well hop on this while the night is young!


 lol.. haha


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## paigew (Jun 4, 2012)

> How does what you are saying have anything to do with this thread? I'm a  professional photographer and I have been for a very long time, and I  have been charging people for the work tha I do.
> 
> This thread is about someone offering videos to magically turn a camera  owner into a professional overnight.  Making a statement like that is  unrealistic and misleading.



ummm...okay.....so I guess you missed the replies where people were critiquing her images and pretty much implying that she isn't good enough to be 'pro' and/or charging.....

oh and then there are the ones that imply she has no common sense....by the looks of her portfolio she seems to be busier and making more money than the 'pros' on here.


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## tirediron (Jun 4, 2012)

I think this quote from her 'site pretty much says it all:  

"_If you&#8217;ve fallen pray to the criticism of other arrogant or condescending photographers, Pay no mind. If you are continually striving to improve yourself and your work, you are &#8220;good enough&#8221;. Carry on._"

When did it "good enough" become the acceptable standard?????


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## cgipson1 (Jun 4, 2012)

paigew said:


> > How does what you are saying have anything to do with this thread? I'm a  professional photographer and I have been for a very long time, and I  have been charging people for the work tha I do.
> >
> > This thread is about someone offering videos to magically turn a camera  owner into a professional overnight.  Making a statement like that is  unrealistic and misleading.
> 
> ...



Almost anyone can stay busy doing $200 weddings... but that doesn't mean that they are good!


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## paigew (Jun 4, 2012)

tirediron said:


> I think this quote from her 'site pretty much says it all:
> 
> "_If you&#8217;ve fallen pray to the criticism of other arrogant or condescending photographers, Pay no mind. If you are continually striving to improve yourself and your work, you are &#8220;good enough&#8221;. Carry on._"
> 
> When did it "good enough" become the acceptable standard?????



Hey, I don't know this girl nor have I spent much time on her site...BUT. That quote was taken out of context. "_*If you are continually striving to improve yourself and your work, *you are &#8220;good enough&#8221;. Carry on."_ I think the bold part is the important part. Are you 'good enough' to be a pro tirediron? I mean, sure, you have had some great images, but some would say that about me too! Good enough....I think we need to ask good enough for whom. Good enough for our market clients? Good enough as in better than others? Good enough as in, I know everything there is to know...I'm done? I think I am good, I get some fantastic images of my kids, ones that make my heart smile and make me so thankful for photography. Is that good enough? Or should I have people calling me every day and be booking months in advance? Seriously....people need to chill on the pro thing. She is promoting education...is that so bad?


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## paigew (Jun 4, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> paigew said:
> 
> 
> > > How does what you are saying have anything to do with this thread? I'm a  professional photographer and I have been for a very long time, and I  have been charging people for the work tha I do.
> ...



This is true! But you know what, to some people who can't afford more it is perfect . Just as there are people who go to sears for portraits, some go to craigslist for wedding photogs. They don't care about comp, editing, etc, they just want photos of them, on their big day! Is that so wrong? If your work is consistent with your portfolio who is getting hurt?

my BIL took my wedding pics when we eloped to the beach and I couldn't be happier with the photos! Sure, they are FAR FAR FAR from pro, but they caught the emotion and happiness of my wedding day. And I KNEW they weren't going to be spectacular pro quality.


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## tirediron (Jun 4, 2012)

I'm sure that Bernie Madoff was a very busy man.


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## cgipson1 (Jun 4, 2012)

paigew said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> > I think this quote from her 'site pretty much says it all:
> ...



She is promoting education to make MONEY.. and based on her images, I  don't know that she is really qualified to teach. A beginner won't learn  much from another beginner.. no matter how snazzy the marketing package  is.

I am still of the opinion that a person should be at least  technically proficient before embarking on a "PRO" career.. and that  doesn't happen overnight (again..no matter how snazzy the marketing package is)


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## 12sndsgood (Jun 4, 2012)

I was continually striving to improve myself and photography skills the very first day I picked up my camera. That does not mean im good enough.

She is promoting education, I think what people are questioning is her level of skills to dish out that education. I mean if your educating someone shouldnt you have attained a certain level of skill?


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## tirediron (Jun 4, 2012)

paigew said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> > I think this quote from her 'site pretty much says it all:
> ...


I intended no comment about your work, my work, or ANYONE's work, rather, I was referring to the suggestion in that quote all you have to do is try and you are immediately 'good enough'.  To me, in conjunction with the intent of her 'site that reads as, "Pick up a camera, give it a try, and you're good to go'.


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## paigew (Jun 4, 2012)

well you see...I read that quote differently. I feel that I will ALWAYS be striving to be better and trying to learn and improve. I am not saying that every person with a dslr camera should be taking photos for money. But seriously, you don't want the clients that pay 200$ for a wedding, and those clients will NEVER pay 5000$ for a wedding. So, why do we care that there is someone else providing a service that we don't want to take on? As the beatles say "let it be".

Those who are passionate will do great in the long run. Those who care will want to learn. Those who truely love photography will always want to be better and try to gain more and more knowldege and experience.


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## 12sndsgood (Jun 4, 2012)

paigew said:


> well you see...I read that quote differently. I feel that I will ALWAYS be striving to be better and trying to learn and improve. I am not saying that every person with a dslr camera should be taking photos for money. But seriously, you don't want the clients that pay 200$ for a wedding, and those clients will NEVER pay 5000$ for a wedding. So, why do we care that there is someone else providing a service that we don't want to take on? As the beatles say "let it be".




problaby because those clients that pay $200 will sue you and take everything you have just as much as the people who pay $5000, maybe even more then those who pay $5000. and you should have a certain amount of sill before you start any type of profession.


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## paigew (Jun 4, 2012)

12sndsgood said:


> problaby because those clients that pay $200 will sue you and take everything you have just as much as the people who pay $5000, maybe even more then those who pay $5000. and you should have a certain amount of sill before you start any type of profession.




well you should, yes. But you should also be an educated consumer.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Jun 4, 2012)

On whom does the consumer rely upon for their "education"? 
The professionals, maybe?
 Hmmm?


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## imagemaker46 (Jun 4, 2012)

This is all about someone that doesn't have the technical skills selling a package to the naive that buy into idea of  picking up a camera, buy the videos and in 24 hours are good enough to turn pro.  It doesn't happen like that in any other occupation, why should it be accepted in photography? 

This has nothing to do with $200 weddings or $5000 weddings, it has nothing to do with the skill level or quality of photos posted on this forum.


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## paigew (Jun 4, 2012)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> On whom does the consumer rely upon for their "education"?
> The professionals, maybe?
> Hmmm?



reviews? examples of work? word of mouth? doing their own research and deciding if the product offered is what they are wanting to buy?


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## paigew (Jun 4, 2012)

imagemaker46 said:


> This is all about someone that doesn't have the technical skills selling a package to the naive that buy into idea of  picking up a camera, buy the videos and in 24 hours are good enough to turn pro.  It doesn't happen like that in any other occupation, why should it be accepted in photography?
> 
> This has nothing to do with $200 weddings or $5000 weddings, it has nothing to do with the skill level or quality of photos posted on this forum.



okay look; the people who view her site and love her work will buy her videos. know one is going to buy her videos without viewing her images first. If they want to be as good as her what is the problem? They KNOW how good she is and what to expect out of her videos. If you don't her product/images you will find another how-to video to purchase.


and yes, it happens in most all service driven professions...example: A person out of a job picks up a hammer and starts building cheap decks....lawsuit anyone??


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## imagemaker46 (Jun 4, 2012)

paigew said:


> imagemaker46 said:
> 
> 
> > This is all about someone that doesn't have the technical skills selling a package to the naive that buy into idea of  picking up a camera, buy the videos and in 24 hours are good enough to turn pro.  It doesn't happen like that in any other occupation, why should it be accepted in photography?
> ...



Starting to sound like you're working for her


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## paigew (Jun 4, 2012)

imagemaker46 said:


> Starting to sound like you're working for her



sounds like you feel threatened by her ability to make money...


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## Pookie (Jun 4, 2012)

I think there are some good advices on her site.

However, I do have a problem with her marketing which is supporting false advertising such as "OVERNIGHT" when it really is not 
Suggesting it is okay to do that is going to promote fauxtogs even more before they are ready...


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## 12sndsgood (Jun 4, 2012)

paigew said:


> imagemaker46 said:
> 
> 
> > This is all about someone that doesn't have the technical skills selling a package to the naive that buy into idea of picking up a camera, buy the videos and in 24 hours are good enough to turn pro. It doesn't happen like that in any other occupation, why should it be accepted in photography?
> ...




yeah, im sure there are a few lawsuits.


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## rexbobcat (Jun 4, 2012)

12sndsgood said:


> I was continually striving to improve myself and photography skills the very first day I picked up my camera. That does not mean im good enough.
> 
> She is promoting education, I think what people are questioning is her level of skills to dish out that education. I mean if your educating someone shouldnt you have attained a certain level of skill?



Those who can't do teach. There is in some truth to this, especially in today's higher education.

Anyone who has technical knowledge can teach. I can read a book on how to build a house and then teach that knowledge to a classroom of students. I won't have any credibility, but that doesn't mean the information I can't teach it.
For example; I had a photography professor last semester who was very...disappointing. I've been photographing for two years, so I've done a TON of research and I know the technical basics of photography. All the information she taught us was good in classroom. It was all the usual stuff that is taught in photography courses. However; she did not practice what she preached. Her photos were subpar. In other words, I had very little respect for anything that she said that I didn't already know about.

On the other hand, I just took a field photography class with one of the better editorial photographers in the region. I knew he knew what he was talking about, because he has become successful doing what he is teaching. I can trust him. The other professor...not so much...

On topic though; this seems like a scam. "I can give you the secrets but you get nothing until I get something. Just trust me.  "


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## rexbobcat (Jun 4, 2012)

paigew said:


> imagemaker46 said:
> 
> 
> > This is all about someone that doesn't have the technical skills selling a package to the naive that buy into idea of  picking up a camera, buy the videos and in 24 hours are good enough to turn pro.  It doesn't happen like that in any other occupation, why should it be accepted in photography?
> ...



But hopefully most persons-with-a-hammer-out-of-a-job don't advertise themselves as being the best carpenters in town.

And just in the same way I can't respect or trust this website, because of the false and exaggerated claims it uses to get people's money, regardless of whether or not the product is decent or not.

_Become a Photographer OVERNIGHT!!!_

Shouldn't she be watching her children instead of stroking her wallet and her ego getting old and gullible people to buy her shoddy product...


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## paigew (Jun 4, 2012)

rexbobcat said:


> ....hopefully most persons-with-a-hammer-out-of-a-job don't advertise themselves as being the best carpenters in town.


HA! Yeah....riiiight. . And anyway, did I miss where she said she was the best in town? 



rexbobcat said:


> ...Shouldn't she be watching her children instead of stroking her wallet and her ego getting old and gullible people to buy her shoddy product...



Wow...sexist much? Also, since when is providing a 'shoddy' product a crime? I could name a thousand products I have purchased that were pieces of crap. Whos fault was that the maker? Or mine for buying it without researching better?


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## PhotoTish (Jun 4, 2012)

Hi RememberYours.  Reading through this thread, I can't help but think what an excellent business opportunity this has presented you with!  You are obviously very confident that the service you offer delivers soooooo ... why not consider offering a free course or two to one or two of the newbies here and do***enting their progression as they work through the course?  Just a thought :thumbup:

Am I not allowed to write "do***enting" ???  Ummm okay, what about recording ?


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## rub (Jun 4, 2012)

Interesting reading for my Monday morning...

There really seems to be two schools of photographers out there. 
1) Those who look at their images, and think, okay, this is good, solid work. But how can I take it to the next level? How can I go from good, to great? to excellent?  
2) Those who look at their image and see it as being excellent, and free from fault because the client loves it, FB loves it, or their mom loves it.  

RememberYours - you are class 2.  

I cannot say it enough, but one of the most valuable learning tools for me has been critique from other photographers. When you come to a group like this and see that many people agree your images could be better, especially for someone teaching the photography business, how can you NOT reflect on that and look at what they are saying?  When you bring out the jealousy card and assume anyone who doesnt spew rainbows and sunshine about your images must be jealous of your skills, it is total BS. They see things where you can improve.  And they tell you.  Maybe they arent nice about it, but for you to completely disregard what other professional think just speaks to your own professionalism, or lack there of.

I didn't waste much time on your site, because I know what I say will fall on deaf ears, but I notice crooked horizons in 4 shots in under 30 seconds.  And your baby posing video didnt say a single word about safety, which should be the first concern.

Sure you can market - good on you for that.  But seriously - listen to the feedback you are getting and grow from it.  The push and drive within youself is often not enough to make you better, especially when we already think you are the best.


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## imagemaker46 (Jun 4, 2012)

paigew said:


> imagemaker46 said:
> 
> 
> > Starting to sound like you're working for her
> ...



I don't even shoot weddings and I certainly don't feel threatened by any of this. I was just making a point as a professional photographer, that the images she has posted on her webiste lack the consistant quality of someone pushing a self help over night professional programme.


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## manaheim (Jun 4, 2012)

paige... the simple fact is the bulk of people who get all riled up over stuff like this, do so because those performing marginal work for a fee (especially those being successful on some level at it), because they are threatened by it on some level.  They may say they're "offended", or "disgusted" or whatever, and sure... I get the disgust elements of it, but no one bristles like somone who thinks their livlihood is on the line.  The whole industry is full of people running around with cameras charging money for it that are far less capable than those who came before us.  

Frankly, I count yours truly among them.  I'm "pretty good", but... really... when I meet up with a seasoned pro I'm _embarrassed_ by how little I know and what little I can do compared to those folks.

This RememberYours person is probably in a similar bracket, and seems to demonstrate not only less skill than the major pros, but even less skill than many of us on here... frankly, as rub indicated... she demonstrates the #1 indicator of those who have not that much experience, which is that she thinks she's _very _good.

And she even said it herself... she's got 2 years experience.  Two years is very little.  Most of us know that.  She, perhaps, does not.

Or perhaps she does... 

Clearly what she has been good at is selling herself.  Even in this, some of us likely find tons of reason to feel threatened.  I'm pretty bad at selling myself, so I'd bet dollars to donuts that she makes more in an average year in photography than I ever will.  From her own figures I'm pretty sure she does.

What's more threatening than someone who doesn't exactly show the same level of quality that many of us strive for, and yet makes 5-6x or more in a year than we do?  Seriously. That's a very real threat.  So the reaction is understandable.


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## paigew (Jun 4, 2012)

manaheim I agree with you. I have been a (part-time) business owner in the service industry for 7 years. My husband is also a busniess owner and supports our whole family with his skills/services. I am all too aware of people out there providing cheap work. Bottom line is, there will ALWAYS be people out there providing work for cheap. There is no reason to get upset about that simple fact of life. If they are 'stealing' your target clients then maybe you should reconsider your goal client and/or business model. Personally, I don't care if people go to someone cheaper than me so they can get a 'good deal'. People choose me/my husband/any service provider for a few reasons...skill, convienence, and/or pricepoint. I want clients who value my skill and vision, its no sweat off my back if someone goes to someone cheaper. They aren't my target clients anyway. Value yourself and you will be valued.


I also think this thread brings up a very good point. You can't run a sucessful (photography) business unless you have business skills.I will admit it is annoying seeing people below your skill level making good money when you are not. But hey, such is life.


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## HughGuessWho (Jun 4, 2012)

Deja Vu
Seems like I've heard this all before.


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## c.cloudwalker (Jun 4, 2012)

Be a Kerbutcher!  That should get you a long way into the insane world of photo.

AndmI'm reporting this thread as porn.


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## imagemaker46 (Jun 4, 2012)

c.cloudwalker said:


> Be a Kerbutcher!  That should get you a long way into the insane world of photo.
> 
> AndmI'm reporting this thread as porn.



I suppose it could be porn, seems to me that people do get screwed if they believe in the overnight success.


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