# A Pro Pentax?



## benjikan (Jul 6, 2007)

I am quite taken a back by many of the questions regarding the pro capacity of the K10D. There have been the doubting Thomas's that ask.."Is there a Pro Pentax?" or why doesn't Pentax make a pro camera etc etc etc. The answer is this. The K10D is the Nikon D200 of Pentax. It compares favorably with all of the top end dslr's on the market. So why these insecurities? I think it has more to do with the perceived value of the camera. If it sold for 1500, the public perception would be the contrary. Perhaps Pentax should re-consider their pricing just to satisfy those who perceive value solely by the price tag.


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## usayit (Jul 6, 2007)

and the purpose of defending pentax in a completely seperate thread?

but .. I do agree... Pentax has always presented good value for performance.  From what I've heard the K10D does hold.


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## Don Simon (Jul 6, 2007)

I'm sure I've seen posts of the kind you're referring to on other forums... I don't think I've seen any here though.

To be honest the K10d is surely an excellent dSLR but it is not what would generally be considered a "pro" camera. Nor is a D80, a 30D (nor I would say a D200 at the risk of having my head bitten off)... or any but a small handful of cameras. It was not designed primarily for professional use... which is not to say that it can't be used professionally, as your work demonstrates. It is a very good spec, well built and the weather sealing is something you would normally expect only from higher-end models... but that doesn't mean it's perfect, nor does it mean that Pentax shouldn't work to produce something even better... the modern equivalent of an LX or MZ-S perhaps. Pentax can improve in certain areas... for example if the SDM ultrasonic focus system works well, higher-end bodies could have higher frame rates and Pentax could compete in areas where traditionally you would never have seen a Pentax.

I have no insecurities about using Pentax... and I don't worry about the value of their camera bodies, since I believe they offer extremely good value. Pentax don't need to reconsider their pricing... but as usual they need to improve their advertising. And they need to keep working on producing even better products - just like every other company does... there's no completely perfect camera.


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## Alpha (Jul 6, 2007)

I love Pentax. I own an ME Super, a Super Program, and a 645. However, they haven't made a "pro" camera since the 645 NII or the LX. The MZ-S came up short, and I'm not holding my breath for the 645D.


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## Garbz (Jul 6, 2007)

What makes a camera a pro camera really? Is the mere existence of the D2X enough to push the D200 down to the prosumer range? Same goes for Canon, some will sware green and blue that the 5D isn't a Pro camera, yet I have seen wedding photographers and the like use lesser cameras like the 30D professionally. So what has the D2X and the 1D got that the D200, 30D 5D, or K10D doesn't? Image quality is reasonably the same unless you go nitpicking, they are all roughly 10mpx, Oh it must the ability to do voice recording, that's gotta be it .


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## Don Simon (Jul 6, 2007)

No doubt any plans for a Pentax pro body must be low on the list of priorities. I tend to agree with Garbz... not everyone needs or wants a "pro" camera, not even professionals necessarily... I have played around with several and generally I find that I prefer cameras aimed at "advanced amateurs" rather than professionals. It's not even a case of not being good enough or demanding enough to want a better camera; I honestly think that sometimes an excess of technology can interfere with the useability of the product.

I didn't mean to suggest that making a true 'pro' model should be a priority for Pentax... I'd like to see one some time but not for a while... what I was trying to say was that just because the K10D is very good, doesn't mean Pentax or Pentax users shouldn't hope for something even better (and that can mean better within the 'entry-level' or 'amateur' markets rather than pro).


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## usayit (Jul 6, 2007)

Garbz said:


> So what has the D2X and the 1D got that the D200, 30D 5D, or K10D doesn't?



There's a big difference between 1d(s) markII(III) versus 30D and 5D.  Build, meter, seals, battery, frames/sec, shutter life, etc.. are quite different.  Each body has a different purpose but it doesn't mean that the 30D and 5D are not capable of professional duty.  5D is becoming a popular choice over the 1d for journalist and wildlife photographers.

I personally could careless... purchase the body that serves your purpose.


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## Garbz (Jul 7, 2007)

That's not what I said. I said a 1D. The 1Ds is quite a different and more expensive beast even being borderline out of what I would call pro, and into what I would say is either application specific, special interest, or plain obsessive (depending on the owner). Quite like some medium format beasts out there.

But back to something I know more about the Nikon D2X vs D200. Build quality roughly the same, both have good seals, with the battery grip the D200 lasts longer then the D2X, framerate is higher on the D2X thanks to it's ability to crop sensor information.

I am just questioning how people can say certain cameras are not "pro" cameras purely because a better version exists. As you said the 5D is popular for journalists and wildlife photographers. These wouldn't be pro's by any chance would they?


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## fmw (Jul 7, 2007)

Benji, you know as well as I do that cameras aren't professional.  People are professional.  A professional can use any equipment to make good images.  Professionals normally choose what is reliable because failing to get the photographs doesn't bring home the bacon.  Brand is immaterial.  Pentax, like most other brands, is reliable.  The company wouldn't be in business if that were not the case.  It always has been this way.


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## usayit (Jul 7, 2007)

Garbz said:


> That's not what I said. I said a 1D.



And thats what i'm saying....  Ok.. I'll be more specific:

"There's a big difference between the 1 SERIES DSLR (1D, 1D MarkII, 1D MarkIIn, 1D Mark III, 1Ds, 1Ds MarkII) versus 30D and 5D. Build, meter, seals, battery, frames/sec, shutter life, etc.. are quite different."

Is that better?  Still the same point...  and doesn't matter...  Use a Holga if it serves your purpose.

in the end.. it is threads like this that makes it seem like Benji is on the Pentax payroll... but at least not completely.


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## mwct (Jul 7, 2007)

I am using a Canon 400D and the features I miss on it are accurate exposure metering, spot metering, and white balancing. I always have to solve these problems in photoshop after taking the shots. If a pro camera could give me those, then I'd argue it might be worth the extra money. One thing I don't like about pro cameras is they are full frame so you have to buy more expensive and heavier lenses to get the same reach at the telephoto end.


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## Don Simon (Jul 7, 2007)

Well accurate exposure IMO shouldn't be entirely down to the camera. Spot metering I have on my dSLR and had on several film SLRs, none of which would usually be considered "pro" spec. That's more an issue of Canon deciding not to include it, rather than a Pro-camera-vs-non-pro-camera thing. As for full frame... not all pro cameras are full frame. Only Canon's. 

If you are having problems with your Rebel... firstly you can get around some of those problems by simply doing more of the work (metering, white balance) yourself... and if you want more features you might find that something like the 30D fits your needs well; you don't necessarily need the absolute top of the line.


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## selmerdave (Jul 7, 2007)

mwct said:


> One thing I don't like about pro cameras is they are full frame so you have to buy more expensive and heavier lenses to get the same reach at the telephoto end.



Is that right?  Isn't your typical DSLR at 200mm the same as a full-frame 200mm shot but cropped to the size of the smaller sensor?  In other words, the reach is the same, just the crop is different, no?

It seems to me that the industry is just suckering everyone into buying "digital" lenses, so that in a couple years they can make full-frame standard and everybody has to go out and buy all new lenses.

Dave


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## darich (Jul 7, 2007)

benjikan said:


> I am quite taken a back by many of the questions regarding the pro capacity of the K10D. There have been the doubting Thomas's that ask.."Is there a Pro Pentax?" or why doesn't Pentax make a pro camera etc etc etc. The answer is this. The K10D is the Nikon D200 of Pentax. It compares favorably with all of the top end dslr's on the market. So why these insecurities? I think it has more to do with the perceived value of the camera. If it sold for 1500, the public perception would be the contrary. Perhaps Pentax should re-consider their pricing just to satisfy those who perceive value solely by the price tag.



Who are you trying to convince? Us or yourself?
I have no issues with the calibre or capability of the Pentax nor do i doubt the quality of your work - some of it is quite stunning. :hail:
However it seems that just about every time i see a post you're saying how good the pentax is or that it's as good as a Canon X or a Nikon Y.

I'm quite a believer that it's the photographer that takes the image, not the camera so the equipment is not as important as a good competent artistic user.

I'm fairly sure that i've read ealsewhere in this forum that you're sponsored by Pentax. I realise that everyone has their preference in a particular brand of gear - that's totally normal and i don't have a problem with it. But I don't read many posts from Canon users saying that my camera is this good, or Nikon users saying my camera is a definitely a pro because of this.
I may be reading this wrong but I can't help thinking your sponsorship from Pentax is somehow related to this type of post.

I apologise if I've taken your posts out of context or read them the wrong way but why do you constantly talk about how good your camera is?
We've seen your work and don't doubt the quality or your images or the camera - why the repeated praise after receiving a sponsorship?

I'm not having a go - i just can't figure out why the repeated praise when very few others, if anyone at all, does it, but i suppose most others don't receive free/cheap gear, or sponsorships from Canon or Nikon.

It could be i just missed some of your other posts.


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## JIP (Jul 7, 2007)

usayit said:


> and the purpose of defending pentax in a completely seperate thread?
> 
> but .. I do agree... Pentax has always presented good value for performance. From what I've heard the K10D does hold.


You need to remember any statement by Benjikan about Pentax is bought and paid for by Pentax.  This is not meant as a slam to Pentax, Beji or anyone else but I think he should put a disclaimer in his sig when he puts up posts like this.  I know alot of us on here know this fact but others don't.


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## silver163 (Jul 7, 2007)

I have a Pentax K100D and I always got amazing photos, at times with a bit of tweaking. I even had a small unprofessional canon camera and got great photos. so its really the photographer not the camera that matters. they all work the same in a big sense, they just differ from each other but little options such as shake reduction or noise reduction


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## usayit (Jul 7, 2007)

JIP said:


> You need to remember any statement by Benjikan about Pentax is bought and paid for by Pentax.  This is not meant as a slam to Pentax, Beji or anyone else but I think he should put a disclaimer in his sig when he puts up posts like this.  I know alot of us on here know this fact but others don't.



Interesting... as i recall Ben saying that Pentax didn't pay for his posting on the internet's forums...

from "Let's get this Clear....Re: Pentax"



benjikan said:


> I felt it necessary to start a new thread regarding my use of Pentax and my affiliation with them.  As some individuals have questioned my motivation in doing so.
> 
> I have been a Pro Photographer for over 25 years. I had used Canon for over eighteen years for my 35mm format and anything from Sinar to Horsemean to Fuji 680 to Bronica to Blad to Mamiya to Pentax to Yashica for my MF and larger support imagery. I was sponsored Officially by Canon up until recently when I switched to Pentax, which for me was a very serious move. I have used Pentax MF cameras for years, specifically the 67. *Pentax have never asked me to post on forums.  They have never provided any work for me, as my field of expertise is totally out of their domain. They are pleased however with my move to Pentax.* Being that I garnered a considerable amount of press re: my Canon sponsorship, they were delighted with the fact that they could benefit by that exposure. Yes I do use Pentax now and they do provide material for me. But I never would have switched to Pentax if the product could not deliver the goods. That would be professional suicide. *As to my posting on several forums. Absolutely. I wish to share my experiences with other photographers who may have been reluctant to use the K10D in professional applications.* I see no reason that if one can use a Nikon D200 for a pro shoot, why not the K10D. Canon and Nikon have thousands of Pro users publicly acknowledging the use of specific models for specific applications. I don't see why there should be a double standard. If Pentax were to stop my partnership with me tomorrow, I would still continue to use the K10D and acquire their 645D when it comes out in the Fall of 2007.



So...  I question....

So we have a dedicated thread defending his excitement with Pentax...
and now a dedicate thread defending the K10D's pro status.....



benjikan said:


> I am quite taken a back by many of the questions regarding the pro capacity of the K10D. ...



and most would have stated so IN threads that do question the "pro" capacity of the K10D...

Shall I start a a couple new threads?
 "Re: Canon Rules...".. and "Re: I shoot Leica because I love it"


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## fmw (Jul 8, 2007)

JIP said:


> You need to remember any statement by Benjikan about Pentax is bought and paid for by Pentax. This is not meant as a slam to Pentax, Beji or anyone else but I think he should put a disclaimer in his sig when he puts up posts like this. I know alot of us on here know this fact but others don't.


 
No, he shouldn't post things like this at all, disclaimer or otherwise.  In reality, it is spam.


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## Don Simon (Jul 8, 2007)

It was originally posted on another forum in response to specific posts, where it made sense. Here, no-one has made any posts of the kind referred to, so I agree there wasn't really any need for it. No disrespect intended Benjamin, I'm interested by your posts whether on Pentax news or on more general photographic discussion - I just think this one maybe should have stayed on the Pentax forum


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## Alpha (Jul 8, 2007)

Okay this is silly. You guys don't know what you're talking about. Stop hijacking this and turning into a discussion about Canon and Nikon. This thread is about Pentax, a company whose cameras most of you obviously don't know a lot about. 

Pentax does not make any professional cameras anymore. They market the K10D to "advanced photo enthusiasts."


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## darich (Jul 8, 2007)

benjikan said:


> I am quite taken a back by many of the questions regarding the pro capacity of the K10D. There have been the doubting Thomas's that ask.."Is there a Pro Pentax?" or why doesn't Pentax make a pro camera etc etc etc. The answer is this. The K10D is the Nikon D200 of Pentax. It compares favorably with all of the top end dslr's on the market. So why these insecurities? I think it has more to do with the perceived value of the camera. If it sold for 1500, the public perception would be the contrary. Perhaps Pentax should re-consider their pricing just to satisfy those who perceive value solely by the price tag.



Having thought about this post more and read some other comments it strikes me that this post is even more meaningless than i first thought.

Benji asks himself is there a Pro Pentax - fmw quite correctly pointed out that cameras are not professional - it's the user. I said something similar in my first post - the photographer takes the picture not the camera.

In response to the above question, Benji doesn't answer it. I'm wondering why he would ask this question but not answer himself. I think he tries to persuade us that the camera is for the pro user but without actually saying yes to answer his question. I often think that as a professional, the best high quality gear is important because they are the tools of a photographer's trade - he depends on them for his salary.

The fact that  i can buy a Pentax K10D for less than 2 days overtime in B&H strikes me that the K10D is similar to a Canon digital Rebel XTI - a camera aimed at advanced amatuers.
I often think that if i can afford it easily then it's not aimed at professionals

Benji suggests that if Pentax increased the price then people would think better of the camera and improve its perceived image. I believe though, that if it was much more expensive, then not only would it be sell less, i think people may perceive Pentax as ripping them off if you can buy a Rebel XTi for similar money.

I've already said i don't doubt the quality of Benji's work but posts like this are pointless and, as has already been pointed out, spam.

This post is for a start probably in the wrong place - it should be in equipment & service sub forum. But also given the number of "pro (meaning "for" rather than "professional") Pentax" posts/comments, perhaps it would be worth reminding Benji that this is a _photo _forum, not a _camera _forum


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## Hertz van Rental (Jul 8, 2007)

darich said:


> cameras are not professional - it's the user.



There used to be two types of film camera - professional and normal. As there were two kinds of film.
'Normal' cameras were reasonably basic and of average build. Used by holiday makers and amateurs there were designed for 'ocassional' picture taking.
Professional cameras were built like brick outhouses and had lots of extra features (interchangeable focussing screens, lock up mirrors, motor drives...). 
The 'professional' tag was also an excuse to whack the price up astronomically. And it looks like it still is


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## jstuedle (Jul 8, 2007)

Garbz said:


> What makes a camera a pro camera really? Is the mere existence of the D2X enough to push the D200 down to the prosumer range? Same goes for Canon, some will sware green and blue that the 5D isn't a Pro camera, yet I have seen wedding photographers and the like use lesser cameras like the 30D professionally. So what has the D2X and the 1D got that the D200, 30D 5D, or K10D doesn't? Image quality is reasonably the same unless you go nitpicking, they are all roughly 10mpx, Oh it must the ability to do voice recording, that's gotta be it .



    The D2Xs is a more rugged camera, better build quality and a few more features. The D200, although a large step up from the D100 in build quality, is still not up to the level of the D2 series. One major difference to my mind is the shutter life. The D220 rated at 100,000 frames. That might be a little optimistic as I have heard them go at 80-90,000 frames. A lot of shooting to be sure.  The D2 series  I believe is rated the same as the D1 series at 130,000 frames. That seems conservative. I have a D1 that let loose at 840,000 frames and a D1 that got real close to a million before needing a shutter. I think the service out of a manufacture might be at a couple of levels also. It seems Nikon is more apt to rush a pro body and go the extra mile for a D2 than a consumer or pro-sumer body than the D200. I agree for the price deferential the 200 looks like a better value. But if shooting for money, the D2 series will serve you better with more confidence than a lesser camera. 
     Having said all that, the Pentax when compared to the build and ruggedness of a Nikon or Canon pro body looks and feels like a lightweight. That is not to say it is not capable of good to great image files, it just does not look like it could stand up to the ravages a pro puts on a camera. For instance, will the Pentax survive the heat, sand, cold, desert, tropics, and knocks and drops a N or C body would in Iraq or one of the other sand boxes a war shooter would subject it to? Or the number of frames a LA star chaser would shoot? Or be as dependable in a stressful studio environment? Most likely not. This is what pro cameras are designed for. So what do we do? Either get a pro body or two for your profession, or a couple pro-sumer or three bodies? Basically it's a question of "If you can't take the heat, why are you in the kitchen?"


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## Don Simon (Jul 8, 2007)

jstuedle said:


> Having said all that, the Pentax when compared to the build and ruggedness of a Nikon or Canon pro body looks and feels like a lightweight.


 
True. And when compared to the Pentax, the Canon Rebel feels like a lightweight toy... as you said yourself, those 'pro' Nikon or Canon bodies are on a different level and not the same as simply any N or C body.

Meanwhile the D200 isn't pushed down to the "prosumer" range by the existence of the D2X... it just happens to be in that range based on its own specs (or at least it is in that range if you accept Nikon's own descriptions of it).

None of which really means anything. Last time I checked, professional photographers weren't a single homogenous entity all doing exactly the same kind of work. Use what suits your purposes and priorities best... if that means only a D2Xs or 1DS then fine. If it means a D200, fine. If it means a K10D, fine. Whether your gear is good enough for you is up to you... unless of course your clients get worried because it's not the same camera they've seen on TV... :roll:


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## JIP (Jul 8, 2007)

usayit said:


> Interesting... as i recall Ben saying that Pentax didn't pay for his posting on the internet's forums..."


 
To me it does not matter if a specific post is paid for.  Honestly any time he speaks about Pentax it is an advertisement.


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## Alpha (Jul 8, 2007)

Will you shut up already about Canon and Nikon? Stop acting like they're the only pro cameras on the planet. Sheesh!


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## silver163 (Jul 8, 2007)

whoa there maxbloom


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## usayit (Jul 8, 2007)

hehee lol.. take a look at his past posts and you'll find out that it is his "style".... brings a bit of character to this place.


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## Don Simon (Jul 9, 2007)

JIP said:


> To me it does not matter if a specific post is paid for. Honestly any time he speaks about Pentax it is an advertisement.


 
And any time someone says "Looking for your first camera? Buy a Canon or Nikon" it is an advertisement, albeit a free one. Benjamin never specifically says "Buy Pentax", he doesn't try to convince anyone that Pentax is inherently better and he doesn't act like if you will be making a huge mistake if you don't follow his advice. That IMO puts him above a lot of people posting in photo forums, paid or not.


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## The_Traveler (Jul 9, 2007)

I would guess that Benji makes the identical post on several web forums. He has done this before; I assume it is paid advertising.


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## fmw (Jul 9, 2007)

MaxBloom said:


> Will you shut up already about Canon and Nikon? Stop acting like they're the only pro cameras on the planet. Sheesh!


 
Max, I realize you are a fanatic and an expert at rudely criticizing people and what they write.  But, wouldn't it be better to simply stay in the sidelines unless you have something constructive or meaningful to say?  Or do you consider yourself the only source of wisdom on the forum?


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## fmw (Jul 9, 2007)

ZaphodB said:


> And any time someone says "Looking for your first camera? Buy a Canon or Nikon" it is an advertisement, albeit a free one. Benjamin never specifically says "Buy Pentax", he doesn't try to convince anyone that Pentax is inherently better and he doesn't act like if you will be making a huge mistake if you don't follow his advice. That IMO puts him above a lot of people posting in photo forums, paid or not.


 
Big difference, Zaphod.  Benji may not go the extremes that the amateurs do but he is a member of the Pentax photographic staff.  That makes his posts about Pentax advertising and spam.

He is an experienced and capable photographer.  He would benefit himself and all of us if he would post about photography rather than about Pentax cameras.  He has a lot he could teach.  But, he wants to sell instead.


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## usayit (Jul 9, 2007)

ZaphodB said:


> And any time someone says "Looking for your first camera? Buy a Canon or Nikon" it is an advertisement, albeit a free one. Benjamin never specifically says "Buy Pentax", he doesn't try to convince anyone that Pentax is inherently better and he doesn't act like if you will be making a huge mistake if you don't follow his advice. That IMO puts him above a lot of people posting in photo forums, paid or not.



No offense ZaphodB but there is a big difference:

Post #1: I'm looking for a camera DSLR...
Reply: Buy [insert Canon/Nikon/Pentax] because they are the best...

and

Post#1: [insert Canon/Nikon/Pentax] is awsome.. look at my portfolio.

See the difference... one "Buy this or that" is posting is in reply to another member's question.  The other is a new thread starting with "This is awsome but this or that".

Looking back at Benji's posts.. you can't deny that there are a lot of threads started by him raving about Pentax.  The only difference between him and a Spammer is that he puts in just enough information and substance in his posts to keep him from being labeled as a Spammer.  He's walking the grey line. 


In most cases, his threads are simply spreading the word... much like a newsletter.  Rarely do they inspire discussion with the proposition of an idea, discussion, or question.


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## benjikan (Jul 9, 2007)

darich said:


> Who are you trying to convince? Us or yourself?
> I have no issues with the calibre or capability of the Pentax nor do i doubt the quality of your work - some of it is quite stunning. :hail:
> However it seems that just about every time i see a post you're saying how good the pentax is or that it's as good as a Canon X or a Nikon Y.
> 
> ...




Let's get this straight.  I was Officially sponsored by Canon France..I was a loyal Canon user for almost 20 years.  I changed to Pentax at my own volition and did so because the K10D was that good.  I would not have given up my platform unless Pentax could perform.  That would be professional suicide.  I can use any platform I please.  I am not compelled to use a platform. If it doesn't do what I need that tool to do and deliver the goods I would drop it like a hot potatoe.  It is simple as that...


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## benjikan (Jul 9, 2007)

fmw said:


> Big difference, Zaphod.  Benji may not go the extremes that the amateurs do but he is a member of the Pentax photographic staff.  That makes his posts about Pentax advertising and spam.
> 
> He is an experienced and capable photographer.  He would benefit himself and all of us if he would post about photography rather than about Pentax cameras.  He has a lot he could teach.  But, he wants to sell instead.



If you did a bit of research, I have given technical advice and business advice in regards to photography.  Here is just an example of what I am referring to...

http://www.ephotozine.com/learn/articles  The first three are my contribution.

and...

http://pentaxlife.com/benjamin-kanarek-post-processing-method#more-213

Ben


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## benjikan (Jul 9, 2007)

fmw said:


> Big difference, Zaphod.  Benji may not go the extremes that the amateurs do but he is a member of the Pentax photographic staff.  That makes his posts about Pentax advertising and spam.
> 
> He is an experienced and capable photographer.  He would benefit himself and all of us if he would post about photography rather than about Pentax cameras.  He has a lot he could teach.  But, he wants to sell instead.



I am not part of the Pentax staff..They couldn't afford me...They cannot pay my 12000 PER DAY TARIF NOR THE ROYALTIES FOR THE SHOOTS I DO...Me thinks you complain too much. Would you feel better if i told you that I used a 'Blad recently with a 39 megapixel back for a client because they needed that resolution?  Well that was the case.  For most applications the K10D shines.  Just had an image blown up to 3.5 x 5 meters at the 5th International Festival of Fashion Photography in Cannes shot with it and it worked out famously...

This is the image they used...

http://anashcreation.com/thenashgallery/BenjaminKanarek/double06?full=1


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## newrmdmike (Jul 9, 2007)

benjikan, man i wish you would REALLY make some of those photographic contributions on this forum! i do think what your doing is advertising, since your now being sponsored by pentax (that was my understanding) . . . but for some reason i don't care, i would hope you posted more stuff on here from that k10D you love so much  . . . the proof is in the pudding right? join us in the portrait gallery!


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## table1349 (Jul 9, 2007)

benjikan,

      Actions speak louder than words.  How about responding to this one then.  Pentax user that needs advice. 

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=87272


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## The_Traveler (Jul 9, 2007)

I would be more convinced of your purity of heart if you didn't start these Pentax-promoting posts at  several different sites with the same wording.


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## darich (Jul 9, 2007)

benjikan said:


> Let's get this straight.  I was Officially sponsored by Canon France..I was a loyal Canon user for almost 20 years.  I changed to Pentax at my own volition and did so because the K10D was that good.  I would not have given up my platform unless Pentax could perform.  That would be professional suicide.  I can use any platform I please.  I am not compelled to use a platform. If it doesn't do what I need that tool to do and deliver the goods I would drop it like a hot potatoe.  It is simple as that...



You may very well have changed brand of your own volition - i wasn't arguing otherwise.

I was pointing out, as someone else now has, that your posts are, in the main about how good your equipment is. It's great you feel that way but why must you keep posting it?
Claiming that Pentax couldn't afford your alleged fee of 1200Euros per day is a bit childish. I'm fairly sure they could but whether they felt it would be money well spent is another.
Boasting about a sum of money you can earn merely reinforces my first post - it's as if you're showing off or boasting because you work for numerous mags and are sponsored by a major camera company.

In reality i'd imagine most members here aren't interested in which mags publish your work but are interested in how you achieve certain effects. Your photos are excellent but continually reminding everyone about your "excellent" camera (which is no more than what an advance amatuer might own) gets boring and puts people off.

I'd also imagine that most members are more interested in how you got that particular look or that lighting effect rather than which camera you use.

To be honest, i feel as though your posts come across as almost condescending and that you feel that you're doing all of us amatuers a huge favour by occasionally popping in to offer some titbits of advice.
If you stuck more to posting about your technique and methods, rather than who you work for or where you're published, i think people would really enjoy reading your posts.


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## benjikan (Jul 9, 2007)

gryphonslair99 said:


> benjikan,
> 
> Actions speak louder than words.  How about responding to this one then.  Pentax user that needs advice.
> 
> http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=87272



As I am based in Paris, I cannot respond to the query, as it is in England and I am in France...


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## benjikan (Jul 9, 2007)

newrmdmike said:


> benjikan, man i wish you would REALLY make some of those photographic contributions on this forum! i do think what your doing is advertising, since your now being sponsored by pentax (that was my understanding) . . . but for some reason i don't care, i would hope you posted more stuff on here from that k10D you love so much  . . . the proof is in the pudding right? join us in the portrait gallery!




Thsi is the message I get systematically...

benjikan, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.


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## BAB (Jul 9, 2007)

As I see it you are unable or unwilling to post without carrying an agenda, either that Pentax is so wonderful or that you are so wonderful and your recent reponses substantiate this.  Does this mean your posts are of no value?  On the contrary as some have excellent tips, suggesstion's and information of value to this forum.  As a pro myself, I can attest to the quality of your photos and techniques you have described but I fail to understand why anyone in this forum, much less a working pro, feel the need to promote a particular brand and self promote one self as blatantly and as frequently as you do.  Is it because of some sort of financial gain as some here have suggested? Or is it because of some sort of inferiority complex?  If these posts of yours were in response to posts that questioned the quality and usability of Pentax, I could, as I am sure others, understand and accept, but no many are generated by yourself. I think this is why many here are getting irritated by your posts promoting Pentax and of self promotion.  It has been said over and over that it matters not the brand of the camera, but the talent behind the camera that matters, I think it is fair that most on this forum would agree to that.  I think it also fair that most here care more for the exchange of ideas and an opportunity to learn than who is #1,2 or 3.


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## fmw (Jul 9, 2007)

benjikan said:


> I am not part of the Pentax staff..They couldn't afford me...They cannot pay my 12000&#8364; PER DAY TARIF NOR THE ROYALTIES FOR THE SHOOTS I DO...Me thinks you complain too much. Would you feel better if i told you that I used a 'Blad recently with a 39 megapixel back for a client because they needed that resolution? Well that was the case. For most applications the K10D shines. Just had an image blown up to 3.5 x 5 meters at the 5th International Festival of Fashion Photography in Cannes shot with it and it worked out famously...
> 
> This is the image they used...
> 
> http://anashcreation.com/thenashgallery/BenjaminKanarek/double06?full=1


 
It doesn't matter to me what you use, Benji. I'm sure you will use what works for you.

By photographic staff, I don't mean you are on the Pentax payroll. I mean you are provided with equipment by Pentax and are, in effect, a Pentax spokesman. As an example, Moose Peterson is a Nikon staff photographer.  He isn't paid by Nikon but he is equipped by Nikon.  Nothing wrong with that at all. However, it makes equipment posts like yours something less than objective in the eyes of the readers because of that.


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## Mike_E (Jul 9, 2007)

The only consideration for a pro camera is "Will it make me more money and cost me less than anything else that will do the job?".

Anything else is commentary on your ego.  

mike


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## usayit (Jul 9, 2007)

usayit said:


> and the purpose of defending pentax in a completely seperate thread?



BENJIKAN... Care to answer this question that was directed to you in the second post of this thread?????

I see no recent thread on this forum that warrants your original post....  even JIP responded to it and it wasn't even directed to him.


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## Alpha (Jul 9, 2007)

Edited.


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## Mike_E (Jul 9, 2007)

You guys do know that Paris is like +2 hours GMT don't you?  (6 hrs ahead of EDT)


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## Jeff Canes (Jul 9, 2007)

Folks base on the replies it seems like a lot of you are all tired of BENJIKANs Pentax post and think they are just spam. Well if that is your opinion. Why do you even reply to them? Just to rip the guy?


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## burtharrris (Jul 9, 2007)

Honestly.  If you don't like it, don't read it.  It is sad if you need to anonymously prove yourself to a stranger on the internet.  Grow up and move on.  

Somebody close this thread.


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## usayit (Jul 9, 2007)

burtharrris said:


> Honestly.  If you don't like it, don't read it.



The same could be said about your response...  On the other side of the coin, It is also easier to spam and post junk in an impersional place like a forum living on some far away server.  


I think there a lot of members (me included) that are protective of places that we enjoy.  There's a lot of other places (and forums) that are junk with lots of  spammers and posters with alternate motives than honesty.  The way I see it, I see no reason why members shouldn't react the way they have.  At least it remains in a single thread.  

A thread that you don't have to read....


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## BAB (Jul 10, 2007)

burtharrris said:


> Honestly. If you don't like it, don't read it. It is sad if you need to anonymously prove yourself to a stranger on the internet. Grow up and move on.
> 
> Somebody close this thread.


 
Since some of his posts are often disguised as well meaning posts, not reading them is easier said than done.


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## table1349 (Jul 10, 2007)

burtharrris said:


> Honestly.  If you don't like it, don't read it.  It is sad if you need to anonymously prove yourself to a stranger on the internet.  Grow up and move on.
> 
> Somebody close this thread.



That is like going to a fine dining establishment with your kids and then ignoring them when they run wild in the place.  That is why places like McDonalds and Burger King put in play areas.  It's a place for kids and food, not Chez Snottie Toots. 

This is a forum to ask questions and receive answers above and beyond the average "My camera has a little round button thingie on the top and every time I push it I hear a click.  How come, and what is that little button thingie called?" question.  

Perhaps a better way to address this issue would be for the forum to create a new sub forum titled something like *Rants and Raves*.  Other photography forums have them.  Then benjikan can rave about Pentax, I can rave about Canon, you can rave about what ever system you shoot and it would all be appropriate.  It would also be a good place to rant about things such as others believing that Pentax does not make a "Pro" camera or the fact that Sony charges a third more to double the price for some of their comparable glass than Canon or Nikon.  Everything has a place.  This, and I would have to agree with the others, was not the place for this thread.


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## BAB (Jul 10, 2007)

gryphonslair99 said:


> That is like going to a fine dining establishment with your kids and then ignoring them when they run wild in the place. That is why places like McDonalds and Burger King put in play areas. It's a place for kids and food, not Chez Snottie Toots.
> 
> This is a forum to ask questions and receive answers above and beyond the average "My camera has a little round button thingie on the top and every time I push it I hear a click. How come, and what is that little button thingie called?" question.
> 
> Perhaps a better way to address this issue would be for the forum to create a new sub forum titled something like *Rants and Raves*. Other photography forums have them. Then benjikan can rave about Pentax, I can rave about Canon, you can rave about what ever system you shoot and it would all be appropriate. It would also be a good place to rant about things such as others believing that Pentax does not make a "Pro" camera or the fact that Sony charges a third more to double the price for some of their comparable glass than Canon or Nikon. Everything has a place. This, and I would have to agree with the others, was not the place for this thread.


 
Well said, I second it!


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## benjikan (Jul 10, 2007)

BAB said:


> Well said, I second it!




That "IS" a brilliant idea.


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## JIP (Jul 10, 2007)

gryphonslair99 said:


> Perhaps a better way to address this issue would be for the forum to create a new sub forum titled something like *Rants and Raves*. Other photography forums have them. Then benjikan can rave about Pentax, I can rave about Canon, you can rave about what ever system you shoot and it would all be appropriate. It would also be a good place to rant about things such as others believing that Pentax does not make a "Pro" camera or the fact that Sony charges a third more to double the price for some of their comparable glass than Canon or Nikon. Everything has a place. This, and I would have to agree with the others, was not the place for this thread.


Better yet for posters like Benji there should be an "advertisers" section or something similar.


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## benjikan (Jul 11, 2007)

JIP said:


> Better yet for posters like Benji there should be an "advertisers" section or something similar.



Are we looking for a sparing match?  You are pretty provocative.


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## newrmdmike (Jul 11, 2007)

sooooo you are saying you can't reply to other peoples threads?  hmmm . . . you should ask chase or someone about this.  if its something to do with france not wanting you to access certain pages try browsing through ktunnel.com or something similar.


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## newrmdmike (Jul 11, 2007)

benjikan said:


> Are we looking for a sparing match?  You are pretty provocative.




and enough with the french man syndrome  jk, but seriously, jk . . . or am i? jk


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## Iron Flatline (Jul 11, 2007)

gryphonslair99 said:


> Perhaps a better way to address this issue would be for the forum to create a new sub forum titled something like *Rants and Raves*.  Other photography forums have them.  Then benjikan can rave about Pentax, I can rave about Canon, you can rave about what ever system you shoot and it would all be appropriate.  It would also be a good place to rant about things such as others believing that Pentax does not make a "Pro" camera or the fact that Sony charges a third more to double the price for some of their comparable glass than Canon or Nikon.  Everything has a place.  This, and I would have to agree with the others, was not the place for this thread.


Hey, then I can tell you all how good my Leica gear is.

...and just wait till the R10 comes out!


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## JIP (Jul 11, 2007)

benjikan said:


> Are we looking for a sparing match? You are pretty provocative.


Provocative???  I guess that's in the eye of the beholder.  You are given gear by a company for a reason I will assume they don't pay you but if they do that makes it even moreso.  The reason is to promote their product so therefore you are an advertiser.


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## Chas (Jul 11, 2007)

Good grief you guys! I came to this thread because I'm getting back into SLR photography after a hiatus of about eight years and am looking for some good advice from experience photographers like you are supposed to be ....  I ran a search on the K10 and this thread popped right up - imagine my surprise when it turned into a personal slanging match. Cast your eyes to the left: this is my first post on this forum! Now if I wanted a fight, I'd go back to the aviation forum I just got kicked out of .... [only kidding, it's my sick sense of humor ...] 

Potted history: 1968 Spotmatic was my first love (50mm f/1.4 Super-Tak, 28 mm f/3.5 Super-Tak, 200 mm that I left in a rental car at my sister's wedding ..), then I went into 4 X 5 format in the 80s (Takihara field camera, Calumet studio, Caltar lenses), then back to film SLR in the 90's (Canon A2 with a Sigma 28-200 that I found out yesterday doesn't fire up right with the XTi or D30 and can't be rechipped - wtf). Point-and-shoot (Fuji, Canon) since then - a sad story really. OK so I'm a rank amateur but a serious enthusiast who had a full basement darkroom in the 90's. 

Looking at the specs, the K10D looks like a fine machine for my advanced-amateur purposes (OK, I might even get into some pro photography at some point...). The XTi is too small and doesn't feel right to hand but the specs are good (no spot and no top LCD display though - problematic), the D80 is a possibility but I'd love to be able to still use the wonderful Takumar glass. No, I am not afraid to work in full manual on occasion with the old lenses (will the light meter work right?), but I want to stay with a system of superb, high-tech lenses as well. I have a few $$ to spend, if I play things right with the better half ..... 

So please, help me out. You guys know your stuff (I'm assuming), stop your bickering and help out a fellow photographer here. I don't care who's a pro and who's an amateur, or who gets paid by whom for what, I'm looking for experience and honest advice is all .........

Best,
Charles.

Later: hmmmm, maybe I should start a thread in "Equipment ......" with this post, am I completely in the wrong sub-forum here? Sheesh, what a newb...


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## Don Simon (Jul 11, 2007)

Hi Charles. Welcome to the forum. To be honest it would probably be better to start up a separate thread so you can just get advice without all the stuff from this thread getting involved, but here goes.

I tend to agree about the XTi's size, and if that is an issue you will probably find the D40 too small as well, and probably the same with the K100d too. The K10d, Nikon D80 and Canon 20D/30D are larger and take battery grips; this class above entry-level also tend to have more dedicated controls, dials etc, so for these reasons I would definitely look to start at that level rather than 'entry-level' if you can afford it.

If it's Takumar screw-mount lenses you're interested in, they will work on the Pentaxes with an adapter and you will have metering, but they will also work on the Canon EOS cameras with an adapter too. To be honest the Canon may be the best system for compatibility with a wide variety of lenses; with Canon dSLRs you can't use old FD lenses because they are a completely different mount, but you can use Nikon and M42 lenses with an appropriate adapter - and of course Canon EF lenses.

If manual focus is an issue then the K10d's pentaprism and replaceable focus screens should definitely help. However I believe Nikon have also improved their viewfinders and the D80 may be good for that too. Anyway whatever system you get, you will be able to replace the focusing screens with third-party ones designed for manual focus.

If you want a large system of "superb, high-tech lenses", I would have to recommend Canon. I don't believe for a second that their glass is inherent better, but they do have the largest range. Nikon would be next, again a large and widely available range. Pentax, you will find lenses for most needs and they are good lenses... but sometimes you will not find what you want and it can be frustrating...

... Let me give an example. You will have trouble finding a fast telephoto zoom for Pentax right now... Sigma decided to upgrade their 70-200 and not bother releasing it for Pentax until the end of the year, Tokina won't release K-mount lenses because they have an agreement with Pentax as a result of the two companies cooperating on lens designs... and Pentax's own 50-135mm has just been delayed again after the company was bought by Hoya. Now by the end of the year you will be able to get the Pentax zoom, and by next year you will have options for Sigma and Tamron too... but until then nothing to fill that gap. What I'm saying is not that you should avoid Pentax (I use them and I'm happy)... just that you should check that they can cover your needs... of course the same applies with any company.

I don't think you can go too far wrong with any system, but based on your needs Canon _may_ be the best option; just avoid the Rebels (IMO) and go straight for a 5D if you can stretch to that, since that will give you a better viewfinder for manual focus than a smaller-sensor dSLR provides.


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## Chas (Jul 11, 2007)

Thank you Sir for a very informative, considerate and timely post. Am I to expect this after every Photo Forum post in future? (rhetorical ....). Actually it doesn't surprise me in the least, since I've read one or two others of yours. I really am going to be hanging around this forum in the future, I can tell that now. 

Indeed I had been wondering about the adaptability of DSLR Canons to the old Takumar screw mounts, so you have educated me on that important question. I did read somewhere that Canon bodies have good back-compatibility, but this subject has been a bit abstruse for me until now. Nothing like an "Error 99" message (my Sigma 28-200 on an XTi and on a 30D in the shop) to wake you up to the issue - ouch! Will the exposure metering on the 30D (or the rumored 40D, that I'm wondering about and may patiently await ....) work fully on my beloved 50 mm f/1.4 Takumar or my 28 mm f/3.5? Not that this is a deal-breaker, I still plan to get some use out of the old Pentax Spotmeter and Gossen incident light meter. You are probably getting the picture already, I just love taking time over a shot sometimes to really understand the light values - hence my 4X5 "period". Photography isn't just about bursts of RAW (though I can't wait to shoot my first ....).

Your post came across as very fair and balanced if I may say. You understand that I am an Asahi Pentax fan from way back, my dad gave me one before going up to college in England and I still remember my first experiences with it. So I am very sensitive to the whole brand popularity issue - almost all you read on the internet seems to be Canon- or Nikon-related. But this is understandable I suppose, given the sales figures. Me, I don't care a fig about sales, I'm interested in technical matters and of course compatibility issues. But that Spotmatic (and those Takumars) accompanied me to some very interesting and memorable places over the years ..... what can I say, it's hard to be entirely _rational_ in such matters.

Cheers, Charles.


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## Don Simon (Jul 11, 2007)

Thanks - and glad to see you're planning to stick around!

I'm not entirely sure about the metering, hopefully a Canon person can answer that... but I expect you will have centre-weighted metering but have to stop down for a reading.

As for your Error 99, I expect that is a problem with the Sigma lens rather than the Canon body; Sigmas sometimes 'lose' compatibility with newer Canons and have to be re-chipped; of course they only support them for so long. I believe this is because Sigma reverse engineers instead of buying the rights; I don't think this is the case with Tamron and Tokina although I could be wrong.

Just to go slightly off-topic for a minute... I notice that all the people who nobly jumped up in defence of the forum against spamming and advertising here don't seem to be quite so vigilant when other people make repeated posts that seem a little like advertising and spam...


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## Chas (Jul 11, 2007)

Yes, you make a good point. One man's spam is another man's .... whatever. I'm inclined to give people the benefit of the doubt, until there can be no doubt of course. I try to judge people from what I read that they write, in its proper context (*pious icon here*). But now I'm guilty of taking part in the controversy - so soon already! So many ironies crop up in forums I've found. 

To get back to the Asahi OP (err, Pentax - why did they change their name anyway?) , I have always associated this company with a very high level of quality in workmanship and attention to detail. Yes, they are conservative in a sense (not a bad thing IMO), but I also have thought of them as innovative, at least in the early days, but perhaps that isn't so true now. Well I don't care much about that either - innovation is a two-edged sword for the consumer as most people learn the hard way in one way or another, but of course one has to applaud companies that invest heavily in novel technologies - it's what keeps me employed in another field as it happens. 

I've spent a lot of time on an active general aviation forum (light aircraft - I now like to shoot from the cockpit on almost every flight), and I'll say one thing for sure: photography is much like the single-engine piston aircraft (not that I'm in the market to buy one mind you ....). There are is bewildering variety of choices and considerations, you mostly get what you pay for (i.e. it's a highly competitive marketplace), and any final decision is bound to be a compromise. Perfection is impossible, because there are always trade-offs. The good thing is, that means there's room for lots of good companies with different philosophies and strategies .....

p.s. I spoke to a technical person at Sigma yesterday and the polite fellow said that my older lens (I supplied the model details of course ..) was not capable of being re-chipped for a late-model DSLR. Sigma didn't pay for a license as you point out, so it's all reverse-engineered and likely to run into issues later on. Well, I've learned my lesson when it comes to third-party lenses and rapidly changing firmware in DSLR bodies. Sheesh, what a Brave New World it is for this old spotmatic shooter (I'm loving every minute though, I aint complainin') .......


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## Don Simon (Jul 11, 2007)

It's definitely worth considering whether your lens will stay compatible - especially with Sigma. I have an old Vivitar which won't meter on my dSLR even though it has the contacts that mean it should... but then Vivitar lenses were made by various different companies, so I guess that was, er, a fourth party lens... however I have never had a problem with Tamron or Tokina lenses, I haven't heard of many other folks having issues with them either. As for Sigma, if you bought an expensive Sigma lens today and it wasn't compatible with next year's dSLR, I think Sigma would re-chip it... if it 'lost' compatibility in 10 or 15 years of course that would be another matter... but then who's to say whether the company will even be using the same mount by then? IMO there's advantages and disadvantages to buying third-party... as with everything else it's a question of priorities and compromises.

As for Pentax... they don't do a whole lot of innovation now as far as I can see. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing of course. They still do things differently though... like the range of pancake lenses. One of my other favourite companies, Minolta, was fairly good at innovation but they are no more and I'm still waiting to see what Sony does with that system. The most innovative company to me at the moment seems to be Olympus... of course Canon and Nikon bring out state-of-the-art stuff but it always seems to me like you have to pay a lot for the really high-end products to get it. Anyway those are just my thoughts. You say there is room for lots of good companies and I hope that's right. Choice has to be a good thing. Sites like DPreview are always full of people foreseeing the death of various companies, and I can never understand why they look forward to that happening... I don't see how a real monopoly or duopoly would be good for anyone.


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## Chas (Jul 11, 2007)

ZaphodB said:


> .... however I have never had a problem with Tamron or Tokina lenses, ....


Wow, I'd forgotten that I bought a Tamron 200 mm 70-210 screw-mount lens (push-zoom) for my Spotmatic after I left the Takumar 200 in the back seat of the cab (not a rental car IIRC, circa 1972). I mean, I forgot it was a Tamron until now. Hmmm, does this make me a_ serious_ photographer - surely you have to be one to forget an item like that.  Either that or, well, let's not go there .....  Seriously though, thanks for your insights, I appreciate their worth believe me. At least I've retained enough about photography to benefit from your posts. 

I'll have to Search "pancake" lenses though, don't think I ever knew what that meant.  


ZaphodB said:


> Sites like DPreview are always full of people foreseeing the death of various companies, and I can never understand why they look forward to that happening...


Yes, I've only been lurking around photo forums for a short time and I've already noticed that. Well, somehow I don't think such predictions carry much weight. I agree that genuine competition is a very good thing in any business, in the longer term. Part of me wants to buy another Pentax as a show of support for a fine company, and to promote diversity in the business - other things being about equal. A world restricted to Canons and Nikons would not be a desirable thing - not that that is going to happen I trust. As you say, Olympus is also doing a lot of innovating and Asahi (I mean Pentax) is showing signs of a revival in the higher end.  And I assume they still know how to make just a superb bit of glass ......

Sorry for the hijack people, to the extent that I've hijacked. But I'm an Asahi guy - please cut me a break. Besides, I've taken Zaphod's advice and started another thread in a better spot.


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