# I want to sell prints, but I'm new to this... HALP!



## andrewdoeshair

Edited because I tend to over share unnecessary details and not keep the main thing the main thing... Short version: I've never printed a photo but I want to try selling a few prints as wall art and I'm hoping to have the prints look as nice as possible. The market I'm after is a small niche and there is just enough demand for this type of photo that I wouldn't mind trying, at least just to say that I tried. I'll hang them in my office if they don't move. Advice on paper types, printing services, etc is much appreciated. Thank you


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## tirediron

First of all, why film? 

Next, why will someone be purchasing a print of this?  For the decorative value?  For the educational value?  Because it's  you've created it, or?


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## Designer

andrewdoeshair said:


> If you've seen any off my other threads you know that my main purpose behind a camera is to photograph haircuts.


That's not what you told me last time.  You said it was portraiture that you wanted to do, not hair photography.  So now it's the haircut?  Maybe you should make up your mind. 





andrewdoeshair said:


> Once I have the negatives ..


What negatives?


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## andrewdoeshair

tirediron said:


> First of all, why film?
> 
> Next, why will someone be purchasing a print of this?  For the decorative value?  For the educational value?  Because it's  you've created it, or?



I was leaning toward film because in the barber scene there is a lot of hostility toward people who photo shop their haircuts. I figured a film photo (hopefully that ended up looking really filmy) would widen the market because the people who are opposed to photo shopped haircuts wouldn't be ready to call it a fake. It would be both for decorative value and because I created it. I've put out zines in the past with hair photography and the demand for them was way higher than I had expected. I thought I'd take a stab at some decorative pieces to see if there is demand for them.


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## Derrel

I looked at your Instagram page here, lots of very,very nice cuts! Hairdresser (@andrewdoeshair) • Instagram photos and videos

I'd rather have a digital file to print from instead of printing from a negative.In this, 2017, the vast majority of print places today are printing not from negatives, but from digital files. As far as prints go, there are multiple surface types. Smooth, glossy-finished papers will show more fine detail and will look very sharp and crisp at close viewing distances, but can also show glares/reflections from lights when mounted on walls. Matte paper does not show glares from lights hardly at all, but it greatly reduces the sense of sharpness and fine detail on high-frequency details, like hair, or leaves,etc..

"Metal prints" might be worth looking into. I have no knowledge of your place in the industry, nor the culture of it, so I have no idea about selling haircut/hair style prints to people in that industry. Not sure if film is the right capture medium, but there is a film type for almost every look. Slow-speed color slide film, slow-speed color negative, medium-speed filsms, high-speed films, low-contrast pro color negative films...all have a slightly different look from one another.

Pardon my lack of understanding, but I do not truly know what the market for these types of photos is. I am not familiar with what peoople might want in these types of photos. But I do think it might be a good idea to make these shots in series form; maybe using say one type of barber's cape for 12-20 images, or one type of backdrop, something to unify them, so there's a bit more of a temptation to make them "wall art for the shop". Not really sure what the market is though: I do not fully understand who the target audience really is.


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## andrewdoeshair

Designer said:


> andrewdoeshair said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you've seen any off my other threads you know that my main purpose behind a camera is to photograph haircuts.
> 
> 
> 
> That's not what you told me last time.  You said it was portraiture that you wanted to do, not hair photography.  So now it's the haircut?  Maybe you should make up your mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> andrewdoeshair said:
> 
> 
> 
> Once I have the negatives ..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What negatives?
Click to expand...


In that last thread the goal was pictures that said "this is a cool person, looking cool, who happens to have just gotten their hair cut by me" in an attempt to stand out in the sea of haircut photos (photos that say "this is a haircut"). For this particular project the goal is to showcase minor details of a haircut that someone would probably have to cut hair to appreciate, with the goal of creating something someone might want to put on their wall. Totally different gig, totally different goals, totally different approach. And by negatives I mean after I shoot the looks and I'm standing there with the film negatives, can anyone recommend where I should take them to get the best prints? is there an online service that will provide higher quality prints than what I would get from a small local photo store? I've never printed anything, I'm a product of the digital age


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## Derrel

I see you have a hair care product line you sell. ADH Brand

This is a lab close to you that has a big reputation. Look online for a video showing their operation. Richard Photo Lab


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## tirediron

I agree with Derrel 100% on the digital aspect; these days, from a manipulation perspective there's no difference.  Shoot film, scan the negative, "Photoshop"...  That just adds, IMO, a totally unnecessary degree of complexity and expense to the equation.

As far as the decorator value, I would have thought (and again, like Derrel, I know nothing of you or this facet of the industry), that most barbers would want to display there own work. I can see a market for shooting for others so that they can display their own work as prints in their retail space & on-line, but as decorative...  seems a stretch to me.  Sort of like a body shop using pictures of other shop's paintwork in their front office.


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## Designer

andrewdoeshair said:


> And by negatives I mean after I shoot the looks and I'm standing there with the film negatives, can anyone recommend where I should take them to get the best prints? is there an online service that will provide higher quality prints than what I would get from a small local photo store? I've never printed anything,


So film then.  If you find a good lab that does good work at reasonable prices, then they can make prints as well as develop film.  The trick is to find that lab.  Can be done mail order if you have to.


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## andrewdoeshair

Derrel said:


> I looked at your Instagram page here, lots of very,very nice cuts! Hairdresser (@andrewdoeshair) • Instagram photos and videos
> 
> I'd rather have a digital file to print from instead of printing from a negative.In this, 2017, the vast majority of print places today are printing not from negatives, but from digital files. As far as prints go, there are multiple surface types. Smooth, glossy-finished papers will show more fine detail and will look very sharp and crisp at close viewing distances, but can also show glares/reflections from lights when mounted on walls. Matte paper does not show glares from lights hardly at all, but it greatly reduces the sense of sharpness and fine detail on high-frequency details, like hair, or leaves,etc..
> 
> "Metal prints" might be worth looking into. I have no knowledge of your place in the industry, nor the culture of it, so I have no idea about selling haircut/hair style prints to people in that industry. Not sure if film is the right capture medium, but there is a film type for almost every look. Slow-speed color slide film, slow-speed color negative, medium-speed filsms, high-speed films, low-contrast pro color negative films...all have a slightly different look from one another.
> 
> Pardon my lack of understanding, but I do not truly know what the market for these types of photos is. I am not familiar with what peoople might want in these types of photos. But I do think it might be a good idea to make these shots in series form; maybe using say one type of barber's cape for 12-20 images, or one type of backdrop, something to unify them, so there's a bit more of a temptation to make them "wall art for the shop". Not really sure what the market is though: I do not fully understand who the target audience really is.



Thank you for the breakdown. I was planning on a "series" exactly how you just described! I was in Dallas early this week doing a lecture at a really nice barbershop, and the owner was saying that he'd like to buy really cool haircut photos to put in there That's what got me thinking about doing this. Back in the 80's there were (very 80's looking") haircut photos all over the walls of salons and barbershops, but in the 90's they moved them all into books, and now they're all on instagram. A few of the larger influencers in hair have offered posters with haircuts, with great success (they're everywhere now), but they're basically marketing pieces with pomade logos all over them. I thought it would be fun to make wall art that wasn't mass produced or that weren't pomade advertisements. If these do well then I'll have another outlet and another reason I'm glad I quit cutting hair 40 hours a week.


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## Designer

Probably the best chance of somebody wanting to purchase a print is the person who got the haircut.  Or his mother.


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## Designer

Is there a bar and grille where barbers hang out?


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## andrewdoeshair

tirediron said:


> I agree with Derrel 100% on the digital aspect; these days, from a manipulation perspective there's no difference.  Shoot film, scan the negative, "Photoshop"...  That just adds, IMO, a totally unnecessary degree of complexity and expense to the equation.
> 
> As far as the decorator value, I would have thought (and again, like Derrel, I know nothing of you or this facet of the industry), that most barbers would want to display there own work. I can see a market for shooting for others so that they can display their own work as prints in their retail space & on-line, but as decorative...  seems a stretch to me.  Sort of like a body shop using pictures of other shop's paintwork in their front office.



That might be a plan for the future, to shoot other's work for them.


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## Derrel

How about prints that relate/show a jar of the ADH Dry and the ADH Wet hair products that you sell under your brand? Like marketing pieces that fulfill a dual role, as both a hairstyle shot (Give me the #12 cut, but longer on the sides!) AND as a subtle reminder that that cut uses an ADH product to maintain _the look._

You have that slogan, "*Good hair doesn't come from a jar*," yet you sell 4-ounce jars of the *Wet* and the *Dry* styling products. Maybe use that slogan on the prints or posters?

Spit-balling here. Maybe there is a market for in-shop photos? Big Derrick's Barbershop [  Big Derrick’s Barber Shop - Salem, OR   ](Salem,OR) has a pool table, and shots of whiskey available, lots of tats on folks, Wi-Fi,Play Station, beards, etc....AND they have photos on the walls... Not the 1980's barbershop for sure. More emphasis, by FAR, on mood, atmosphere, and decor than in old-style shops.


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## andrewdoeshair

Designer said:


> Probably the best chance of somebody wanting to purchase a print is the person who got the haircut.  Or his mother.



When I sell one of these I'm using the money to buy you tacos and asking your advice on my next move (insert laughing/teasing emoji) . I don't know the business of photography very well yet but I do know the hair industry... Inspiration, education, and entertainment related to hair is free and abundant to the point that it's got no value (like it probably is in the photography world) but there are still a lot of people who will wade through the noise to seek out and appreciate value. Owning something made by someone who's work inspires you still has value (I once cut a skateboard deck into combs and sold them for $50 each). Owning something limited or hard to get still has value (more so since the internet makes content free for everyone). Like every other project I've worked on, I actually don't care if people will buy them, I just didn't want to do it poorly any more times than I absolutely have to before I can do it well. I figured this thread could save me $70 in printing on the wrong paper or using a known inferior source or method for printing. On that note, I'm now rethinking the film part and will likely use digital.


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## andrewdoeshair

Derrel said:


> How about prints that relate/show a jar of the ADH Dry and the ADH Wet hair products that you sell under your brand? Like marketing pieces that fulfill a dual role, as both a hairstyle shot (Give me the #12 cut, but longer on the sides!) AND as a subtle reminder that that cut uses an ADH product to maintain _the look._
> 
> You have that slogan, "*Good hair doesn't come from a jar*," yet you sell 4-ounce jars of the *Wet* and the *Dry* styling products. Maybe use that slogan on the prints or posters?
> 
> Spit-balling here. Maybe there is a market for in-shop photos? Big Derrick's Barbershop [  Big Derrick’s Barber Shop - Salem, OR   ](Salem,OR) has a pool table, and shots of whiskey available, lots of tats on folks, Wi-Fi,Play Station, beards, etc....AND they have photos on the walls... Not the 1980's barbershop for sure. More emphasis, by FAR, on mood, atmosphere, and decor than in old-style shops.



Thank you. When people smell advertising they get turned off. At least in my crowd. I've taken to a sort of method where I rarely post _about_ the product and instead mention casually that it was used. The less I push it, the more people want it. Sales have been up since then. "Good hair doesn't come from a jar" is a slogan intended to disrupt the patterns of consumers in men's hair. The first question men ask on my haircut photos is "which product does this?" and because retail is a HUGE part of being a barber, a jar as a solution is pushed more and more.

"Good hair doesn't come from a jar" gets barbers and stylists talking about styling techniques with their clients (it's been a hugely uncomfortable topic for decades, but now men want Bekcham hair, and a blow dryer is how you get it). I used to post shots of "manly" tattooed and bearded guys blow drying their hair (one photo was even used by GQ in their blog!) to try to break down the stigma. "Good hair doesn't come from a jar" has opened up a lot of new dialogue in salons and barber shops, and is the central theme of my lectures. Barbers and stylists who have seen their careers improve because of what I go around teaching buy a lot of merch from me, mostly stickers, shirts, and yes, jars, but this photo idea was to hopefully offer a limited sort of premium item in my store. Like the skateboard combs or the zines were. Not necessarily to advertise, but to put something out that other barbers and stylists aren't. Even if it doesn't sell, I'll feel like a badass for having done it.


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## Derrel

Mounting, matting, and framing an photo turns it from _an image_, into an _artwork_, or a _display object, _there is no doubt about that. If you want to keep the costs reasonable, decide on a format (tall, or square or 4:5 or 4:3), decide on a presentation look, and decide on a unified frame and hanging system, and make a small series of framed shots, and you'll likely find out if you have a sellable product. Write some good ad copy, and place it in front of the target market. And you are right: this is all value-added stuff. You're not selling images, you're selling more than an "image", you're selling wall art, or display art, and in addition it might have some utilitarian value as haircut/style examples.

Digital capture will allow you to set the black point of the images so they do not get too dark in the darker areas, and keep the highlights nice but not blown, and will allow you to really "SEE" the image as it is being lighted,posed,and shot; that's a big digital capture benefit. I think you should definitely put together a set of files, and have them printed. Keep in mind too...you can "lay in" a fake matte, or a border around a single-sheet print, so it's easier and less-costly than matting, and can be slapped in a basic frame, and yet still look polished! Use a 1:1:1:1.5 border around the image, with more space (1.5 units instead of 1 and 1 and 1) at the bottom of the image.


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## Designer

The lab where you get your prints made will have various papers they will show you.

Make your matted and framed prints a collector's set.  Each set all framed alike, signed and numbered.  Sign on the mat. Same for the series numbers.  After you sell all of one run, start another with different images.  Soon people will be fighting over them.


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## weepete

My local lab do a sample prints paper selector. Basically a small book of printed samples on different paper types. Costs the grand sum of £5.50 or $6.82 at the current exchange rate. They also do a variety of test prints and discounted samples. I'd see if you could find a lab to do something similar or just ask if they could. That would enable you to see the paper in question in person which is to me what a print is all about.


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## mmaria

I'll do photography part and you do my hair

I went to your account and haven't seen any curly hair there... why?


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## waday

Designer said:


> Is there a bar and grille where barbers hang out?


My previous barber had a fridge with beer in it. TVs, magazines, etc. Loved the place. Guy was a little... interesting.

My current salon offers wine and other drinks while waiting. Not a big fan of the place, but the cuts are good.

I still miss the barber I used to go to before moving away. Old Italian guy, curly chest hair, gold rings and necklaces galore. Knew my cut, barely said a word. When he did, he mentioned bashing in people's knees who did bad things. I miss him.


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## andrewdoeshair

mmaria said:


> I'll do photography part and you do my hair
> 
> I went to your account and haven't seen any curly hair there... why?



I fell into a sort of niche where I became popular with guys who have always hated their curly hair and wished it was straight. One of the biggest draws on my account was content based on straightening curly hair, because thermal styling was news to most men. I've been trying to get out of my pigeon hole, basically straightening the top of men's hair and doing a fade on the sides, so I've been getting a lot more female models lately and as soon as I remember how to do it I want to leave hair curly for some images. I just have been straightening curls for so long that I barely remember how to style curls


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## vintagesnaps

So are the '70s back again?? or is it the '80s? I forget when exactly we used giant curlers because we all wanted to straighten our hair, and when I got that frizzy perm that was definitely a bad choice of my youth.  

I've done submissions to juried exhibits and I've submitted original B&W darkroom prints that I did - and digital photos, and alt. processes, and Polaroids that I've done. So it probably depends on what you want.

I've done B&W prints in a darkroom, send out color film, and from digital images mostly have printed my own - but if you're near Richard lab like Derrel said why not go there and try getting a couple of prints done? Look at the papers they have, maybe try a couple of different ones. I like glossy better too as Derrel also mentioned, but it might depend on the image and the look you want. A 'wet' print done in photo chemistry has a different look than an inkjet print so maybe try both and see what you like. 

From 35mm if you want an 8x10" that will not be the entire frame; usually when getting enlargements from film I have an 8x12" done and crop it myself. So you might need to ask about that and show them the images you want enlarged (because centering it may not get the part of the image you need and might lop off part of someone's head and even worse, their hair style!). 

Some of what I've seen that's supposed to look like film seems to look more like old photos that have been in somebody's basement for years... using fresh film isn't going to get that look and I don't know if most people could tell the difference if a photo was originally done using film or not. What's being viewed is a digital/scanned copy of the film image anyway if it's online.

You might also take a look at ASMP or PPA (I use ASMP's resources) for info. on model releases, licensing usage, etc. For selling a print intended for the buyer's personal use (to hang on a wall) typically a release isn't needed. For retail or commercial (business, advertising, etc.) a release is probably necessary. For what you've described it might be best to start getting releases signed if the photos could end up displayed in a shop and the purpose is to decorate the walls and to help promote the business. But get some professional information and guidelines. 

Also a guideline is if the subject is recognizable, a release probably would be needed. Shooting from the side or back still could be recognizable and tattoos etc. need to be considered. I think if I saw that person in your sample photo, I might know it's him in the photo, so to me it would be recognizable.


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## Derrel

ATTN:      SOME NSFW-       NOT Safe For Work  * not safe for work*
*****
This is how many younger people think of film, today, in 2017.

Editorials

This site is promoted expressly as this:  *Wild Fly Me: 35mm film Unretouched*


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## pixmedic

I spent years finding a barber that could do a good "high and tight".
i always assumed it was the simplest of all haircuts, but apparently i was wrong.


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## mmaria

andrewdoeshair said:


> mmaria said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll do photography part and you do my hair
> 
> I went to your account and haven't seen any curly hair there... why?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I fell into a sort of niche where I became popular with guys who have always hated their curly hair and wished it was straight. One of the biggest draws on my account was content based on straightening curly hair, because thermal styling was news to most men. I've been trying to get out of my pigeon hole, basically straightening the top of men's hair and doing a fade on the sides, so I've been getting a lot more female models lately and as soon as I remember how to do it I want to leave hair curly for some images. I just have been straightening curls for so long that I barely remember how to style curls
Click to expand...

oh lol... it happens ...pls make some curly girl happy, because it's not easy for us to find someone who'll know how to do curly hair!

Imo, curly hair is easier to cut than straight, it forgives some mistakes.. and yet, I can't find a hairdresser that can cut my hair (and it's not even that curly it's wavy)
I was straightening it for more than a year (with hairdryer, by hairdresser) and I ruined it. 
The first time I washed it myself I realized I needed to cut it short (for me short, not that short objectively) I decided to let it be natural but because I didn't came across a hairdresser who can do my hair, I do it myself.
I do it pretty ok,  but it would be much better if I had my scalp in front of me and then to cut my hair, of course


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