# Severe calibration issues. HELP!! Long post, sorry.



## Tight Knot (Sep 11, 2016)

Hi everyone,

I hope you're all having a great weekend.

I know I shouldn't be using a laptop to edit my images. However, this is what I have, and therefore this is what I have been using. I am currently using an ASUS N550JK w/windows 10 (about 2 1/2 years old), and until recently thought it was color calibrated perfectly. I use the x-rite I1 display to color calibrate and check my calibration monthly.

I did a real estate shoot a few weeks ago for a new realtor, and the client loved my images, but said her boss felt they were too yellow. I, of course told her that it was more than likely that her boss was looking at the images on a non-color calibrated monitor, and mine was perfectly calibrated.
She said fine, and we left it at that. I've never had this complaint before.
I just shot a family shoot last week, and after the client chose the images they wanted printed, I went to my local printer, whom I've never used before (as we've just moved to the State). I always try to give the work to people locally where possible.
Being the first time I went to them, I sat through the printing process with them, to make sure I was happy. The first image they opened on their computer looked terrible. Way too dark and saturated. They told me that they had never color corrected their monitors, and the prints always come out looking like the image on the monitor. Needless to say, I was very skeptical, but felt that I should still give them a chance.
Well, it turns out they were correct. The print looked just as bad as the image on their monitor.
So, I chose a few images to test, re-edited them in PS on their computer, and they printed out beautifully. Perfect color, exposure and sharpness.
Of course, I was very surprised to say the least (and humbled).
I went back and checked the color calibration on my monitor, and it came out exactly as it was set to prior to this new calibration. No change.
My next step was to print the images myself on my Canon Pixma Pro-100. They came out very dark and saturated, but not as bad as the local printer, and almost as sharp.
I then sent the files to WHCC to see how they would come out, and ordered 2 sets of identical prints, one set color corrected by WHCC, and the other exactly as I'd taken to the local printer.
I received the photos back on Friday and was mightily disappointed. The color corrected images printed out perfectly in color, vibrancy and saturation, but printed out VERY soft. Almost blurred. Even worse, the non-color corrected images printed out terribly, way too dark and saturated, AND VERY soft. Almost blurred. Proving to me that the calibration on my laptop was way off.

I then contacted Adobe, Asus, X-Rite and Canon, reset my calibration with each one and nothing helped.
I now believe that I will never get the calibration correct on this laptop, and have to get a new desktop to edit on, and a new laptop to show clients their images in the comfort of their own home.

I am hoping for a few answers from those who actually know.

1. Is their any way to get this laptop working correctly? Which is the preferred route, as money is very, very tight.
2. If not, what would you recommend for a good desktop AND monitor, to edit both stills and video in photoshop, premier pro etc and run other programs at the same time without overloading the system?
3. What laptop would you recommend to show my clients their images to create their orders? (I eventually want to get a good projector to show them their images lifesize, but that is not in the budget yet).
4. Considering how soft the images were from WHCC (even the color corrected images), should I expect a refund on those images? I was exceptionally disappointed in the quality.

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated.

Thanks.


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## 407370 (Sep 11, 2016)

There are a gazzillion moving parts to the scenario you described and no simple answer to solving them but a few things will help establish a baseline by which problems can be identified and solved.

Pick a set of pics to use as a test. Edit the pics on the laptop in different conditions. Bear in mind that even the screen tilt has an effect on what you see as a finished product. Then print one from each scenario on the same printer (does not matter which printer as long as it is the same one using the same software for all the prints) and find the one you like best. This process will highlight a single workflow that will produce _"best possible images"_ . When you have worked out the workflow work on various aspects like editing lighting, screen tilt, print driver settings, paper stock, and PP to optimise your system.

What you should end up with is multiple workflows for different types of pictures. Landscapes, portrait, group, dark, light etc might all benefit from tweaking the baseline workflow. A touch more / less sharpening, a touch more / less saturation, a touch more / less clarity etc can make a huge difference to an end product. 

You start with admitting that a laptop is not the best way to go. You just have to adjust to accepting those limitations and working with them. I should know as I am still using my 5 year old super zoom FUJI and spend a lot of time working round those limitations.

Good Luck.


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## Tim Tucker (Sep 11, 2016)

Have you checked the colour management settings through your workflow?


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## astroNikon (Sep 11, 2016)

I use a laptop too
The panels can vary greatly so you need to check the specs of the video card and monitor panel.   Then Make sure you look at the panel perpendicular as your view angle will throw it off.

But since this is revenue generating you should consider a high quality external monitor.

My last two computers have been laptops.  Current one is 3 years old win8.1 but I've always researched the lcd  panel (or whatever you get) as many cheap ones out there just aren't very good on the lower end.


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## smoke665 (Sep 11, 2016)

I would think you need to go back to square one.

Is this the first time you've used the laptop to edit?
Have you updated or installed any new software recently?
Are your color management settings uniform across the board?
Are you editing in different ambient light?


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## pixmedic (Sep 11, 2016)

get a better monitor to edit on. you can connect it to the laptop and see if theres a difference between what you see on the monitor and what you see on the laptop.
you can get IPS monitors under $300 now.


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## tirediron (Sep 11, 2016)

If it worked once,it will work again.  The problem is simply figuring out why it isn't working at the moment.  For portability reason, I often edit on a laptop; it's perfectly fine (other than the lack of real-estate) if you ensure you're set up correctly.  In addition to calibration, I keep a zone-system strip chart on my desktop, and whenever I'm going to edit, I use that to ensure that the screen angle is optimal.  

Anyway, on to your problem:  Wipe out all the colour profiles on the computer (reload Windows?) and recalibrate.  Then take a series of test images, including a grey card, X-Rite Passport (if you have one), as well as some other random odds & ends.  Now, send the same files to all of the printers and see what happens.


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## SquarePeg (Sep 11, 2016)

Had the same issue when printing and also when I viewed my Flickr on other systems everything was really dark and too warm.  I think the screen angle was a huge part of the issue for me.  I got this monitor and use it with a cheap laptop and the colormunki calibration equipment.  Have not had any issues since.

Professional Video | B&H Photo


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## Tight Knot (Sep 11, 2016)

407370 said:


> There are a gazzillion moving parts to the scenario you described and no simple answer to solving them but a few things will help establish a baseline by which problems can be identified and solved.
> 
> Pick a set of pics to use as a test. Edit the pics on the laptop in different conditions. Bear in mind that even the screen tilt has an effect on what you see as a finished product. Then print one from each scenario on the same printer (does not matter which printer as long as it is the same one using the same software for all the prints) and find the one you like best. This process will highlight a single workflow that will produce _"best possible images"_ . When you have worked out the workflow work on various aspects like editing lighting, screen tilt, print driver settings, paper stock, and PP to optimise your system.
> 
> ...


Hi  407370,

Thanks so much for taking the time to write a detailed reply.
The problem with this method (although, if I have no choice, I'll have to make it work), is that I'll constantly be editing my images to look nothing like they're going to print. It's a craps shoot every time.


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## Tight Knot (Sep 11, 2016)

Tim Tucker said:


> Have you checked the colour management settings through your workflow?


Hi Tim Tucker,  
Thanks for your reply.
Yup, I've checked the color management with Asus, Canon, x-rite and Adobe. No luck.


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## Tight Knot (Sep 11, 2016)

astroNikon said:


> I use a laptop too
> The panels can vary greatly so you need to check the specs of the video card and monitor panel.   Then Make sure you look at the panel perpendicular as your view angle will throw it off.
> 
> But since this is revenue generating you should consider a high quality external monitor.
> ...


Hi astroNikon,

Thanks for your reply. 
Which monitor would you suggest? And will I get a better image if I connect it up via hdmi?


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## Tight Knot (Sep 11, 2016)

smoke665 said:


> I would think you need to go back to square one.
> 
> Is this the first time you've used the laptop to edit?
> Have you updated or installed any new software recently?
> ...


Hi smoke665,

All good questions.


Is this the first time you've used the laptop to edit? Nope, I've been using it for 2 1/2 years, but I've always sent my portraits in to be printed with color correction, and therefore never realized I had such an issue. If I'm going to be sending realtors digital images, I have to be darn sure they're coming up perfectly on their monitors and the MLS.

Have you updated or installed any new software recently? No. All is the same.

Are your color management settings uniform across the board? Yes, and checked with Adobe, Canon, Asus and x-rite

Are you editing in different ambient light? Nope, I always edit in +- the same ambient.


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## Tight Knot (Sep 11, 2016)

tirediron said:


> If it worked once,it will work again.  The problem is simply figuring out why it isn't working at the moment.  For portability reason, I often edit on a laptop; it's perfectly fine (other than the lack of real-estate) if you ensure you're set up correctly.  In addition to calibration, I keep a zone-system strip chart on my desktop, and whenever I'm going to edit, I use that to ensure that the screen angle is optimal.
> 
> Anyway, on to your problem:  Wipe out all the colour profiles on the computer (reload Windows?) and recalibrate.  Then take a series of test images, including a grey card, X-Rite Passport (if you have one), as well as some other random odds & ends.  Now, send the same files to all of the printers and see what happens.


Hi tirediron,

The sad truth is, I'm not sure if it ever worked perfectly because I always sent in my images for printing with color corretion, and never knew I had this issue.
What is a zone-system strip chart?
Can I just remove the colour profiles from the folder in windows?
I don't have an x-rite colour passport. I'll look into getting one.
Sounds like a lot of work, but if that will help instead of having to purchase a new system, that's definitely better at this stage.


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## Tight Knot (Sep 11, 2016)

SquarePeg said:


> Had the same issue when printing and also when I viewed my Flickr on other systems everything was really dark and too warm.  I think the screen angle was a huge part of the issue for me.  I got this monitor and use it with a cheap laptop and the colormunki calibration equipment.  Have not had any issues since.
> 
> Professional Video | B&H Photo


Hi SquarePeg,
Thanks for your reply. Confounding and exceptionally irritating, no? Which monitor did you get, and are you happy with it?


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## Don Kondra (Sep 11, 2016)

Acratech  Viewing Angle Gauge (Silver) 6005S B&H Photo Video

In Color Management, delete all profiles except the one you created when you calibrated your screen. 

Cheers, Don


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## Tight Knot (Sep 11, 2016)

pixmedic said:


> get a better monitor to edit on. you can connect it to the laptop and see if theres a difference between what you see on the monitor and what you see on the laptop.
> you can get IPS monitors under $300 now.


Hi Pixmedic,
Thanks for your reply,

Any specific brand, size, resolution you recommend


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## Tight Knot (Sep 11, 2016)

Don Kondra said:


> Acratech  Viewing Angle Gauge (Silver) 6005S B&H Photo Video
> 
> In Color Management, delete all profiles except the one you created when you calibrated your screen.
> 
> Cheers, Don


Hi Don,

That's Brilliant!!

Thanks, I'm ordering one right now. Whether it helps fully or not, It'll definitely be better than what I'm currently doing, and will come in handy for any laptop.


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## pixmedic (Sep 11, 2016)

Tight Knot said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> > get a better monitor to edit on. you can connect it to the laptop and see if theres a difference between what you see on the monitor and what you see on the laptop.
> ...




considering how long people have been editing on monitors, I think pretty much any modern monitor is fine.
I have a BENQ IPS monitor. dont remember the specs now. i remember reading something about refresh rates and
this one was decent. with a colormumki display calibrator it seems to be just fine. paid <300 for it a few years ago.


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## Tight Knot (Sep 11, 2016)

pixmedic said:


> Tight Knot said:
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> > pixmedic said:
> ...


Thank you very much, I'll look into it. Is it worthwhile getting a 4k monitor?


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## pixmedic (Sep 11, 2016)

Tight Knot said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> > Tight Knot said:
> ...


Unless u are going to watch 4k movies on it I would say no


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## Tight Knot (Sep 11, 2016)

pixmedic said:


> Tight Knot said:
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> 
> > pixmedic said:
> ...


I do drone photography and videography as well in 4k, may be worthwhile then.


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## smoke665 (Sep 11, 2016)

Tight Knot said:


> Nope, I've been using it for 2 1/2 years, but I've always sent my portraits in to be printed with color correction, and therefore never realized I had such an issue.



Had a lot of problems with the switch to Windows 10 myself. 1st thing I'd do is run a new calibration then make sure you know what that file name is! 

Then check that the ICC profile used by Windows for your monitor is correct. This is screen shot of my settings for the monitor. The highlighted line is my custom profile, and is in the default position.



 


This is a good explanation of how to check and change  Using ICC Profiles in Windows - PC Monitors

If you are using LR you need to make sure it's using the right color profile. 
To install a color profile, copy it to c:\\Windows\system32\spool\drivers\color. Then restart LR.

I've also struggled with PS. What I used was this. Open PS, Go To Edit > Color Settings. These are the settings I used.



 

When you save an image use export and be sure that the convert to sRGB box is checked.


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## SquarePeg (Sep 11, 2016)

Tight Knot said:


> Hi SquarePeg,
> Thanks for your reply. Confounding and exceptionally irritating, no? Which monitor did you get, and are you happy with it?



Sorry, thought I'd posted the link but I must have made a copy/paste error.  I got this one: 

ASUS PA248Q 24" LED Backlit IPS Widescreen Monitor PA248Q


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## Tight Knot (Sep 11, 2016)

smoke665 said:


> Tight Knot said:
> 
> 
> > Nope, I've been using it for 2 1/2 years, but I've always sent my portraits in to be printed with color correction, and therefore never realized I had such an issue.
> ...


Thanks for the settings info. This is basically what I did with each of the aforementined companies. I tried your settings just to see what the images would look like, but it didn't work. Thanks anyway, I appreciate the time and effort.


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## Tight Knot (Sep 11, 2016)

SquarePeg said:


> Tight Knot said:
> 
> 
> > Hi SquarePeg,
> ...


Thanks so much, looking at the monitor now .


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## smoke665 (Sep 11, 2016)

Tight Knot said:


> I tried your settings just to see what the images would look like, but it didn't work.



Out of curiosity - did you reboot the computer after making the changes, and how did you determine there was no change? I use a laptop for editing but to double check myself I send the image to my phone, tablet and a private web site. If they look pretty much the same, I'm good to go. Also, are you using LR or PS? There have been some recent updates to both. Is there any chance you have a preset or actions that's working in the background? Brightness of the monitor can also cause a shift, as can being on battery or hooked to the charger.


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## Tight Knot (Sep 11, 2016)

smoke665 said:


> Tight Knot said:
> 
> 
> > I tried your settings just to see what the images would look like, but it didn't work.
> ...


Hi smoke665,
I did reboot, but saw no changes in the files. I compared them to the printed image and they looked exactly like they did on the screen before, too light and less saturated than the printed image. After all the editing hadn't changed, and if the on-screen image looked like the prints, then I would have known that the profiling and color calibration had worked. Alas, that was not the case.


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## smoke665 (Sep 11, 2016)

Tight Knot said:


> compared them to the printed



OK are you letting your printer manage color or letting PS do it? That could be one problem. I'd  also upload a couple images to another device


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## Tight Knot (Sep 11, 2016)

smoke665 said:


> Tight Knot said:
> 
> 
> > compared them to the printed
> ...


For my own prints, I was letting photoshop manage color. I was comparing to all the printed images from 2 different printing companies and my own prints. In all case the non-clour corrected prints were darker and more saturated.


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