# Help understanding/choosing flash unit.



## devaji108 (Apr 8, 2013)

OK I am  new to photog. and very new to flash photog. I have been watching a few videos nikion CLS w/ joe McNally and a couple of 1 light workshops. anlong with some books from the library. 
really getting it to this whole controlling the light thing it just amazing....ok ok not gonna go crazy like Joe but would love to learn how to add creative lighting to my work.

my gear:
Nikon D5100 ( just found out the the camera does not have built in Manual flash control) 
35mm F1.8
18-55mm VR
55-300 

I really love the speed lights but sadly they just not in my budget.  
so I was thinking of a couple of these. the Yongnuo 560 II 
Amazon.com: Yongnuo YN-560 II Speedlight Flash for Canon and Nikon. GN58.: Camera & Photo
and some triggers like maybe these: 
Amazon.com: CowboyStudio NPT-04 4 Channel Wireless Trigger for External Speelights with 1 Trigger and 2 Receivers (NPT-04+extra receiver): Camera & Photo
or these:
http://www.amazon.com/Yongnuo-Wireless-Trigger-Shutter-Transceiver/dp/B004YW79F4/ref=pd_sim_p_5

so what I am looking for is 2 off camera flashes it would be ideal if I could cotrol then fron the camera but looks like you gotta pay big bucks for that. 
would love Feedback on these flashes ( did a search but did not find much) 
and the best wireless trigger.

or if you have a better set up idea please let me know...to bad there not a system like the Nikon Su-800 to control your off camera flashes...

thanks so much for the feedback! 
cheers
Deva


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## hirejn (Apr 8, 2013)

Off-brand flashes simply don't provide the power and features of the Nikons, but they are an option. Since I serve clients, I can't afford to go cheap. For just experimenting, maybe the cheap stuff will help you learn. When you understand flash, then you can upgrade to the Nikon stuff. For two off-camera flashes, you need a commander unit. That could be the built-in Speedlight, if the camera supports it. Or you'd need a third flash or commander unit. Use whichever is cheaper. Pros still use the Nikon commander so it's not a bad investment but perhaps not as versatile as a third flash. I wouldn't recommend radio triggers for beginners simply because it's not a solution to better photography and most beginners don't need the features that radio provides. Joe uses a lot of gear, but if you take away the gear his technique is not overly complicated. The gear simply serves his vision.


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## devaji108 (Apr 8, 2013)

yeah the D5100 will not act as a master to the slave units. so I f went the Speed lights say the SB-900 I would have to have 3 to give me 2 off camera flashes. and at this point that just not an option as I am just starting out in photog. hopefully it will be some day. I don't mid spending $$ if I am making $$ form my work maybe in a few years...

but for now would like to "get in to" flash work & learn more about and try different things. 
i would like wireless flash that I can trigger form camera and if I have to manually adjust on the flash unit so be it. 
or am I way off in my thinking. 

anyone use the yongnuo's??


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## Superfitz (Apr 8, 2013)

devaji108 said:
			
		

> ...anyone use the yongnuo's??



I am actually a fan of yongnuo. I have a few of the 565EX's, and I haven't had any problems with them yet.


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## devaji108 (Apr 9, 2013)

^ what do you use to trigger them? or can  your cannon do it?


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## jwbryson1 (Apr 9, 2013)

I have to respond to this thread.  I own 2 of the Yongnuo YN 560 Mark I units, and 2 of the YN 560 Mark II units.  They are excellent but fully manual which means that you have to adjust them on the back of the flash unit itself, and not from the camera body, and they do not function with i-TTL.  I prefer manual flash any way, so I don't care about i-TTL.

Anyhow, I prefer the Mark II units because I find that the controls on them are a bit easier to understand than the Mark I units, but both are very good.  I have the Cowboy radio triggers, but they are pretty cheaply built and don't feel very solid.  Definitely inexpensive though. They worked fine, but I wanted something a bit more "solid" feeling, so I bought the Phottix Strato II units for about $90 / pair through Amazon.  A bit more expensive, but I think they are pretty nice.  I've never had a problem with them. 

When you use the radio triggers you generally attach a transmitter to the camera's hot shot and a receiver to each flash you wish to fire.  Simple.  You take the photo and the transmitter sends a signal to each receiver and makes the flash fire.

What I REALLY LOVE about the Mark II units (it may be the same with the Mark I units as well) is that they contain an optical slave that will make them fire when the other units fire so you don't necessarily need a receiver on each flash.  For example, let's say you have 3 flashes you want to fire but only 1 transmitter and 1 receiver.  You would put the transmitter on the camera's hot shoe, and the receiver on 1 of the 3 flashes you want to fire.  Then on the 2 flash units that do not have a receiver, you move the switch to "slave" or "S1" mode and when the first flash fires (the flash that has the receiver attached to it) the flashes on "slave" mode will automatically fire as well -- NO NEED to have a receiver on them which saves you the cost of buying all of them.

Very good stuff!


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## JacaRanda (Apr 9, 2013)

Flash Triggers / For Nikon

I use the transceivers.  Better prices can be found on Amazon and others places.


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## devaji108 (Apr 9, 2013)

thanks every one for the feedback!
I think I am pretty sold on the 560II that great to hear all the slave function. but one question I know they are need to be set on the flash but say I am using 2 units on with reciver and 1 set to slave each unit will only fire to the setting set to that unit yeah?

so far I think theses are a great way to get in to flash photography! I am excited.
any thoughts on flash stands?


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## jwbryson1 (Apr 9, 2013)

devaji108 said:


> thanks every one for the feedback!
> I think I am pretty sold on the 560II that great to hear all the slave function. but one question I know they are need to be set on the flash but say I am using 2 units on with reciver and 1 set to slave each unit will only fire to the setting set to that unit yeah?
> 
> so far I think theses are a great way to get in to flash photography! I am excited.
> any thoughts on flash stands?




That is correct.  You must manually adjust the flash output on each unit separately.  What do you mean by flash stands?


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## devaji108 (Apr 9, 2013)

to mount the flashes on...
like this:
Amazon.com: PBL Light Stands PRO Heavy Duty 7&#39;6" SET Carry Bags of Two, All Metal Locking Collars Not Plastic by PBL: Camera & Photo


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## amolitor (Apr 9, 2013)

hirejn said:


> Off-brand flashes simply don't provide the *power* and features of the Nikons, but they are an option.



I'm not quite sure what this means. I can buy non-Nikon branded flashes of pretty much arbitrarily high power. Integration with Nikon's flash system is another matter, but that is but one way to use artificial light.

Manual flash units are startlingly cheap compared to Nikon/Canon branded "system" flash units of the same power.


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## Superfitz (Apr 9, 2013)

devaji108 said:
			
		

> ^ what do you use to trigger them? or can  your cannon do it?



I have used a variety of different radio triggers with them and they also have an optical slave function.


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## jwbryson1 (Apr 10, 2013)

You will need a way to diffuse the light such as umbrellas or soft boxes.  You could put the lights on those stands and that would be better than nothing, but diffused light is softer and more appealing for portraits than direct flash.


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## KmH (Apr 10, 2013)

amolitor said:


> hirejn said:
> 
> 
> > Off-brand flashes simply don't provide the *power* and features of the Nikons, but they are an option.
> ...


I think it means the GN power rating of the low cost 3rd party flash units is not accurate, and they produce less power than they claim.


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## devaji108 (Apr 13, 2013)

ok this is what i am thinking for a beginner flash set up:
 2X 560 II 
cowboy triggers
Amazon.com: CowboyStudio NPT-04 4 Channel Wireless Trigger for External Speelights with 1 Trigger and 2 Receivers (NPT-04+extra receiver): Camera & Photo 
 cowboy studio stand:

Amazon.com: CowboyStudio Photography 9 feet Professional Heavy Duty Light Stand for Photography and Video Lighting: Camera & Photo

cowboy studio umbrella:
Amazon.com: CowboyStudio 40in White Satin Umbrella with Reflective Silver Backing and Removable Black Cover: Camera & Photo

 and a hot shore umbrella holder to go in the flash/stand.

any thoughts or feedback before I buy tomorrow?


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## devaji108 (Apr 13, 2013)

oh was also thinking of getting this reflector too:
Amazon.com: Neewer 110CM 43" 5-in-1 Collapsible Multi-Disc Light Reflector: Electronics


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## Buckster (Apr 13, 2013)

KmH said:


> amolitor said:
> 
> 
> > hirejn said:
> ...


Is that proven, or is it internet-pro photographer-speak?  More importantly, even _*if*_ it's true (and I have my reasons for doubting it - see testimony below), is there enough of a difference to even _*matter*_?

I have both the expensive brand name Canon 580EXII flashes (2) and the inexpensive 3rd party answer to that flash, the Yongnuo YN-565EX (2).

My reason for doubting the "inferiority" claims of inexpensive flashes and triggers in comparison to the expensive name-brands that are common on internet forums, is that after several years of working with the Canons and about a year and a half working with the Yongnuos AND the Canons, I now use them all interchangeably, all the time, without a second thought - because it's never been an issue or a problem - ever - not once. Specifically, power is not an issue, either in terms of how much there is to work with nor how accurate it appears to be when dialing it in, nor is color temperature.  ETTL works just as well on all of them (though I rarely use it), and build quality is not a perceptible issue.

Over the years, I've also used several different triggering systems, from cords and cables to cheap chinese radio triggers to proprietary triggers that came with studio strobes to Canon's IR including use with a genuine Canon commander, to expensive Radio Poppers.  Guess what?  They all did _*exactly*_ the same thing: Fired my flashes.  Each had it's own strengths and weaknesses, but the bottom line is: They all did essentially the same thing when you get right down to it, whether they cost me $15 each or $215 each.

Looking back, I should have saved myself a pile of dough by ignoring the gear snobs who said that the cheaper ones were SOOOOOO inferior to the expensive brand-name ones. In a nutshell: If they fire your lights consistently at the distances and environments you use them, that's all that matters.

These days (except for the _*very*_ rare occasion when I want to use ETTL), I'm using Yongnuo RF-603 series triggers, and they work great for my needs.  Plenty of range, common AAA batteries, play nice and work fine with all my speedlights and studio strobes, they're transceivers, so any one of them can send or receive and they do it on the fly - no programming and no instructions needed, 16 channels in case you need to switch because of other photographers also triggering, and they even work as shutter triggers so any one trigger in hand fires everything so they include a cable with each unit to fit your camera's shutter trigger input AND they each sport a PC sync port.

For ease of use, you can't beat 'em: You put in fresh batteries, hot-shoe or plug them into whatever you want to control, turn them on, and shoot - They're straightforward and they just plain work.  Build quality is not an issue - In over a year now of working with them, dropping them, throwing them into bags and dragging them around the country - they've failed me exactly _*ZERO*_ times. I own and use 8 of them, and I repeat - not one failure - ever.  They just plain work.

Bottom line: They work great and they're mega-cheap, so it's easy on the wallet to own 2, 4, 6, 8, 12 or even more of the things, so you can go totally crazy with triggering as many lights and cameras as you want without going to the poorhouse.


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## Buckster (Apr 13, 2013)

devaji108 said:


> oh was also thinking of getting this reflector too:
> Amazon.com: Neewer 110CM 43" 5-in-1 Collapsible Multi-Disc Light Reflector: Electronics


If you have someone willing to BE the reflector holder for you for the entire time you're setting up, dialing in and shooting, that works, and sometimes it's the best way to go.  Just know going in that they're likely going to get tired of doing it real quick, and then you'll probably wish you had a better way to deal with it - one that won't complain and won't have to read your mind or follow your instructions.

That said, consider getting a reflector arm and another stand to hold it.  They make it easy and consistent to position reflectors, and nothing else really works very well.  Search Amazon, and you'll find cheap ones that will work just fine for the purpose.


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## Qveon (Apr 14, 2013)

Buckster said:


> KmH said:
> 
> 
> > amolitor said:
> ...



This man hit it right on the head with my feelings also since i operate the same way. My only thing i have to add to this is most of the time I leave my canon (which is my only TTL Flash) in its case cause i feel i paid too much for it and only use it for on-camera fill. Anything else i use the Yongnuos and hell i even have Neewer TT560s that i use for car photography.

I also agree with Buck on the reflector Amazon.com: Fotodiox 10RFTR-51-42KIT Fotodiox 42-Inch 5-in-1 Collapsible Reflector Disc Pro Kit, with Stand and Holder Arm, Soft Silver/Gold/Black/White/Diffuser - Silver/Gold/Black/White: Electronics

And last but not least on your purchase of an umbrella holder. Get a QUALITY one. I have a couple of those cheap "cowboy studio" holders when i first started and they will not hold a flash and an umbrella up very well without cranking on the holding screw which will eventually strip out...AND the do not line up your umbrella with the flash very well so you spill out of the top of the umbrella and the bottom does not get evenly lit.

And i guess another last but not least...Get/make some sandbags that you can throw over the legs of your light/reflector stands EVEN if you use the stuff indoors cause i have found that if anything BUMPS the stands they tip over easily. And umbrellas do not have any mention-able durability to them. And I have 45" convertible umbrellas and i dont know how they stand without the sand bags.

Edit: Here is a picture of my car I did with my Neewer TT560s


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## devaji108 (Apr 17, 2013)

Matt that is a great pic. 
oh man i have so much to learn...but one step at a time right.


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