# Can not get a second shooting gig...



## Lmphotos (Feb 14, 2013)

Eventually the goal is to be a wedding photographer. But, I can not get a second shooting gig I have called up all the photographers in town (small town) most are husband and wife duos and it is a very tight community. Most of them said they never have second shooters I even offered to be a third or fourth carry a light stand anything! About the only people that will let me come along are the people who have a facebook page had a dslr for a month and now bookine weddings. I honestly refuse to put my name in with that! So what do you do? I have gone to multiple churches played around in there with different lightings and such with just the family and I. But, i really need reception experience I would not know where to even start with that kind of shooting. Fortunately I have been a bride and a bridesmaid multiple times I could tell you and anticipate every move of a wedding along with the madness (my own wedding experience) But I really need to be on the other side any suggestions?


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## Awiserbud (Feb 14, 2013)

Move to a bigger town...

Its a tricky one, everyone suggests becoming a 2nd shooter for a while before you take the plunge yourself, but if you cant get in what do you do. perhaps gain your experience photographically in other areas until you get to a point where you feel you could go it alone, yes to be a good wedding photographer you need to have plenty of experience photographing weddings, but you have to start somewhere.


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## Overread (Feb 14, 2013)

Is it possible to travel? If you can't second shoot within your own operating area consider looking further afield and taking a shorter term internship and a cheap flat somewhere. That has the bonus that you won't be learning to work on your future patch so you won't be in competition professionally with the person your learning under (which I suspect is why many locals are not as keen to have you tag along). 

The only other option you can consider is hitting the budget market for photography work. That is to say putting up an honest ad. and taking the lower paid work that most professionals won't do as their primary work source because the pay is too little or simply not present. Granted this does put your name and their wedding at risk, but its also catering to a market segment that might otherwise go without any. It is an unpopular choice, because it does put your working name at risk, but if you can't travel to get work outside of your living area and if no where locally is suitable or will take you then you've only very few options unless you restructure and aim for a different market segment (eg portraits).


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## Lmphotos (Feb 14, 2013)

I have been photographing babies, families, seniors, business portraits and engagements for some time now but I am honestly done with it I started out wanting to do weddings and everything else was just a means to a way...In fact I am becoming known as the "baby and child" photographer right now. :meh:


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## ronlane (Feb 14, 2013)

I would agree with what has been said. I would ask you one question that occurred to me. If it is a small town and a tight community, is there oversaturation of photographers for market of wedding photography? (Sounds possible)


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## Overread (Feb 14, 2013)

Moving might be your best bet then - even if its just short term. If you've already got an established market you won't want to risk losing it by performing badly and whilst you might very well have solid skills its very good to respect that shooting in a different environment is a new challenge - esp for a wedding where you can't repeat the process if you muck up. 

Otherwise it seems that you've simply no other choices to get experience without taking weddings yourself or working for the "new" professionals who just got their camera last month. The only  other choice is to keep hitting the local wedding photographers and pestering them for doing an intern-ship. Have you considered offering them pay for the experience - some might shift their idea if you're willing to pay them to get a chance to shoot for experience.


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## ronlane (Feb 14, 2013)

One more question. Are you showing them your work? Is it possible that they won't let you in because your stuff is better than their own?


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## cgipson1 (Feb 14, 2013)

All of the above... or do some Craiglist low budget wedding shoots. At least you will learn, and have something in your portfolio! But STILL get contracts... and make sure you can deliver at least some decent images...


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## Big Mike (Feb 14, 2013)

Consider joining a professional photographer's association.  That should give you access to a bunch of photographers who are probably more willing to help you out.  

PPA | Professional Photographers of America
Wedding Photography Association | WPPI
Wedding Photojournalist Association® | WPJA® | Wedding Photojournalism Photos and Wedding Photographers Resources | Reportage and Candid


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## runnah (Feb 14, 2013)

You can follow me around while I shoot random objects on the side of Maine roads.


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## Pallycow (Feb 14, 2013)

Have you offered to do it for free?  I did not see any reference to money.

It's tough to get accepted when you're a stranger.  Some folks are shady.  Just do your best to befriend a wedding photog and if they respect you and your efforts, they will most likely invite you along.


Another alternative is to check with a wedding photog company, if you have any in your area.  We have one here in Bangor called "Classic Photography" which specializes in weddings and events.  They hire out photogs from all over and even seconds.  having a second is part of the contractual agreements.  Get a gig or two with something like that and make a name for yourself and they will seek you out often.

If you're ever in Bangor, I could hook you up with a dozen...lol.  I'm sure someone on here is in your area...or close...maybe they can help you.


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## Tony S (Feb 14, 2013)

> is there oversaturation of photographers for market of wedding photography?



Well yeahhhh.... there is, everywhere.    Just look at Facebook.  And they work cheap too.


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## runnah (Feb 14, 2013)

Pallycow said:


> If you're ever in Bangor, I could hook you up with a dozen...lol.  I'm sure someone on here is in your area...or close...maybe they can help you.




*Ahem*


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## Majeed Badizadegan (Feb 14, 2013)

runnah said:


> You can follow me around *while I shoot random objects* on the side of Maine roads.




What did those random objects ever do to you?

Objects are people too.


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## Pallycow (Feb 14, 2013)

runnah said:


> Pallycow said:
> 
> 
> > If you're ever in Bangor, I could hook you up with a dozen...lol.  I'm sure someone on here is in your area...or close...maybe they can help you.
> ...



want some gigs man?  I can hook ya up for spring/summer if you want.


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## runnah (Feb 14, 2013)

Pallycow said:


> runnah said:
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> > Pallycow said:
> ...



Sure, PM me.

I can't promise I won't hit on the bride's mother at some point.


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## Lmphotos (Feb 14, 2013)

Yes offered myself up for free! Sent my work with them and the only somewhat goof feedback was I love your stuff can't take you as a second shoot but i you ever want to rent my studio this is the pricing. I would say yes and no to the over saturated market. Over saturated with had my dslr for a month now a Facebook page and website definitely yes! But there are about 4 "pros" (one the people on here would not call her pro (cropped limbs, only natural light photographer demon eyes etc) but never the less she gets paid the big bucks for what she does. I think I bring something new to the table the photographers now are very heavy into photoshop, excessive skin smoothing, zombie eyes and very posed shots. where as I am trying to go more of a lifestyle/journalist way with clean edits. So maybe my work is just too differnt from theirs they don't think we would work well or just tight sight heir business which I understand both ways.


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## Pallycow (Feb 14, 2013)

runnah said:


> Pallycow said:
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> > runnah said:
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that's part of the fun isn't it?   lol

I'm expecting a call in a week or so from Classic to set up for the season.  once I get that call I'll toss your name in and send you a PM.

We can find free ones all day long...when ya shoot as 2nd for Classic, they pay average of 25 an hour.  Not much, but something better than nothing.  Also, when going on gigs for Classic, you actually work for them, not the main photog...and they expect shooting...not you carrying the mains gear etc...so that's kinda cool.

anyway...I'll Pm ya.


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## Pallycow (Feb 14, 2013)

Lmphotos said:


> Yes offered myself up for free! Sent my work with them and the only somewhat goof feedback was I love your stuff can't take you as a second shoot but i you ever want to rent my studio this is the pricing. I would say yes and no to the over saturated market. Over saturated with had my dslr for a month now a Facebook page and website definitely yes! But there are about 4 "pros" (one the people on here would not call her pro (cropped limbs, only natural light photographer demon eyes etc) but never the less she gets paid the big bucks for what she does. I think I bring something new to the table the photographers now are very heavy into photoshop, excessive skin smoothing, zombie eyes and very posed shots. where as I am trying to go more of a lifestyle/journalist way with clean edits. So maybe my work is just too differnt from theirs they don't think we would work well or just tight sight heir business which I understand both ways.




Well, hard to do with strangers, so somehow you're just going to have to become acquaintances or friends with some locals. Takes time.


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## KmH (Feb 14, 2013)

Lmphotos said:


> I have been photographing babies, families, seniors, business portraits and engagements for some time now but I am honestly done with it I started out wanting to do weddings....


Then skip second shooting, become the first shooter, and add weddings to everything else you do.


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## imagemaker46 (Feb 14, 2013)

Can you post some of your photos?  What kind of gear are you shooting with?  It's a tough haul out there as so many are doing or attempting to do weddings and in a small market it's even tougher.


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## sm4him (Feb 14, 2013)

I find myself wondering what happened on your FIRST second-shooting gig, that you can't get a second one?

Just kidding, mostly. 
But I AM curious...was there anything about that first gig that was difficult or that just didn't go well? Was it for someone well-known in the area, and if so, would they "recommend" you to be someone else's second?


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## o hey tyler (Feb 14, 2013)

FTR, I'd let Pally or runnah second shoot a wedding with me this summer. I'm never opposed to having more than two cameras. 

OP, same goes for you. Come to Maine and I'll hook it up.  

If that's not in the cards, you can always post on Craigslist that you're looking for second shooter experience.


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## Lmphotos (Feb 14, 2013)

5d mark ii and canon t2i. 85 1.8, 50 1.8, 35 1.8, 24-105L 580exii. I do know one of the photographers from high school and my mom even used to help him out before he made it really big but he kindly just said it was him and his wide that do all the shooting  bummed


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## Pallycow (Feb 14, 2013)

o hey tyler said:


> FTR, I'd let Pally or runnah second shoot a wedding with me this summer. I'm never opposed to having more than two cameras.
> 
> OP, same goes for you. Come to Maine and I'll hook it up.
> 
> If that's not in the cards, you can always post on Craigslist that you're looking for second shooter experience.



If all goes well, I hope to def hit you up on that this summer Tyler.  I need to get my ass down portland way anyway this summer for sure.  Runner and I ought to plan a shoot weekend down there.


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## sandraadamson (Feb 14, 2013)

Funny I have the exact opposite problem I find it hard to find second shooters in my area to bad you didn't live in Nova Scotia Canada I can find all the assistants in the world but no one who can second shoot.


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## Lmphotos (Feb 14, 2013)

I so so wish I could come to Maine! But small baby and money getting photography off th ground will prohibit that


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## pixmedic (Feb 14, 2013)

want to second shoot? do what I did. marry a photographer. problem solved.


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## runnah (Feb 14, 2013)

Pallycow said:


> o hey tyler said:
> 
> 
> > FTR, I'd let Pally or runnah second shoot a wedding with me this summer. I'm never opposed to having more than two cameras.
> ...




Its a date!


do you guys wear suits or just business casual on these shoots?


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## Pallycow (Feb 14, 2013)

runnah said:


> Pallycow said:
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> > o hey tyler said:
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I wear my "photog clothes" as I call 'em.  lol.  black pants and black Nikon shirt (funny since I shoot canon now...lol) .  It helps me to stay in the shadows and out of pictures.  I am very concious of where the main is, but somtimes you can get in a shot during reception and dance stuff...so in all black, it helps me blend in should I be in the background.


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## runnah (Feb 14, 2013)

Pallycow said:
			
		

> I wear my "photog clothes" as I call 'em.  lol.  black pants and black Nikon shirt (funny since I shoot canon now...lol) .  It helps me to stay in the shadows and out of pictures.  I am very concious of where the main is, but somtimes you can get in a shot during reception and dance stuff...so in all black, it helps me blend in should I be in the background.



So I should wear a gillie suit?


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## Pallycow (Feb 14, 2013)

lol.  My black pants are cargo pants...so I can carry flashes and lenses on me.  Having the Nikon shirt helps me not be confused with the guests.  I don't look like crap...but I'm not dressed up.  

I think mostly it depends on the main photog as well, sorta follow suit with them.   The ones I've shadowed don't dress up, but they look nice..if ya know what I mean.


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## o hey tyler (Feb 15, 2013)

runnah said:
			
		

> So I should wear a gillie suit?



Affirmative.


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## Restomage (Feb 19, 2013)

I'm not sure if you've tried this, but offer to work for free. I worked for free as a second shooter as well as did an internship with a newspaper for about 4 months before I proved that I was committed. That led to me working for a wedding photographers associate company which then led to me starting my own business.


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## jamesbjenkins (Feb 19, 2013)

1. Join the PPA. Best $300 you'll spend this year.
2. Expand your travel radius. Contact photogs in other towns.
3. Do your research before you contact someone. Figure out their style (if they don't have a coherent style, move on to someone who does) and then contact them ready to talk about why they inspire you. Otherwise, you're just a liability.

Good luck!


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## jamesbjenkins (Feb 19, 2013)

Restomage said:


> I'm not sure if you've tried this, but offer to work for free. I worked for free as a second shooter as well as did an internship with a newspaper for about 4 months before I proved that I was committed. That led to me working for a wedding photographers associate company which then led to me starting my own business.



There's a big difference between *interning* for free, and *working* for free. When you're an intern, you're getting paid with hands-on experience and mentoring from (ideally) an experienced professional who has a vested interest in developing you.

It's been my experience that the only thing working for free gets you is more opportunities to work for free.


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## Robin_Usagani (Feb 19, 2013)

The truth is, people expect a lot from a 2nd shooter.  Even at my level (im not a hot shot wedding photographer), I get requests from someone who is willing to 2nd me for free.  I typically say no.. Why?

1.  I dont just give clients free upgrade.  If I try to justify that 2nd shooter is an upgrade and they chose not to use a 2nd shooter, I do not want them to have 2nd shooter.  My future clients will expect the same deal next time.
2.  The person's photos arent that good
3.  I have to edit more photos if I have a 2nd, I should get paid more.
4.  I feel like **** when I have someone working for me for free


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## Ilovemycam (Feb 21, 2013)

OP, that is just how photography is. You know the deal...everyone is a photographer nowadays. Lots of people with a dslr will work for free. Reminds me of the 'will work for food' people sometimes.

You got to keep plugging away at it best you can. Without moving, maybe try a test and see if you would do better in a bigger town by contacting prospects for your services in those towns. 

Good luck


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