# Help With A Film Simulation



## smoke665 (Mar 8, 2019)

I've watched several videos on color matching and trying to narrow down a technique to use in Ps to duplicate something similar to Portra 400. This was the first round.

Image 1-Original
View attachment 169888

Image 2 - With simulation and noise applied.
View attachment 169889

It's been so long since I shot film, and all the examples I've found are starting to run together in my mind.  I need some fresh eyes to evaluate please.  For those that still shoot Portra, is this a good representation? If not, suggestions on direction to go?


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## vintagesnaps (Mar 8, 2019)

No, not really...

I don't know what to tell ya, other than to go put some Portra in a film camera! lol but why add noise? I use the same lenses on my digital camera and my film rangefinders so I get comparable quality. Pictures can get more grainy or noisy shooting late day, in lower light, etc. 

The first one of her wonderful expression actually looks slightly magenta to me (left side in the background).


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## smoke665 (Mar 8, 2019)

vintagesnaps said:


> but why add noise?



I wish I had a good answer for that. LOL It was added as an after thought, possibly because the colors weren't looking right as I remembered.



vintagesnaps said:


> actually looks slightly magenta to me (left side in the background).



The first was the original. Just basic adjustments, applied on import.

The biggest problem I'm having is finding a consistent sample of an image to sample. A Google search of images Portra 400 images turned up a wide range of color, everything from cool to warm.


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## vintagesnaps (Mar 8, 2019)

I don't know if I have anything Portra scanned in, because I send out color film and get CDs back. And now that I think of it, I don't keep track if I used Portra or other Kodak anyway. Guess I'm no help! lol


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## jcdeboever (Mar 8, 2019)

Portra has a natural color palette. Very saturated. Low contrast. I would suggest looking at Portra flickr samples and once you get the look you want, save it as a pre-set. The closest simulation I have seen is offered in Alienskin Exposure 4, it's real close. It has both 160 and 400.


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## smoke665 (Mar 8, 2019)

jcdeboever said:


> Portra has a natural color palette. Very saturated. Low contrast.



What I'm finding is less saturation especially in the reds. Skin tones seem to lean toward slightly blue/green??? I'll check out Flickr and Alien. For now I'm working in Ps to sample the colors from good example that I can transfer into my target image in Ps. The process works fairly well, if I can find a decent sample. Here's another take on a slightly different sampling. Any better
View attachment 169899


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## Derrel (Mar 8, 2019)

Looks similar to my mental picture of a color neg. film shot...but I am not the best judge....

maybe reduce the slight yellow and green casts?


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## smoke665 (Mar 9, 2019)

Derrel said:


> Looks similar to my mental picture of a color neg. film shot...but I am not the best judge....
> 
> maybe reduce the slight yellow and green casts?



Yeah my mental picture has fogged over in the last 40+ years, and I haven't been able to separate a universal sample from the examples I've found. As it will always be a simulation, I might need to concentrate more on the similarities and work toward a pleasing finish, that can be applied to my images rather then an exact duplicate. Thanks for the feedback, different eyes, different opinions are what I needed.


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## D7K (Mar 9, 2019)

Aren't there any colour grading filters in PS for this already under colour lookup? If I use such, usually change the blend mode to colour and drop it until I look happy.


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## smoke665 (Mar 9, 2019)

D7K said:


> Aren't there any colour grading filters in PS for this already under colour lookup? If I use such, usually change the blend mode to colour and drop it until I look happy.



I didn't find anything specifically. The last example has a color lookup layer with a warm look, but I'm embarrassed to say I only changed the opacity and never tried changing blend mode of that layer. I'll try that.


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## D7K (Mar 9, 2019)

changing to colour when using the colour lookup helps out for me, it reduces to entire contrast push which I finned sometimes a little harsh, There's also a wealth of free LUT's you can download, I have a load from some site I can't recall right now, I think it was Lutify.com.. here's an example of some colour grading with different "Commercial" effects I was playing with from Lutify:


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## smoke665 (Mar 9, 2019)

@D7K Thanks for the link, I'll explore it as well. LUT's are something I've used on occasion and like all the tools available I sometimes forget unless I use it on a regular basis.


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## D7K (Mar 9, 2019)

smoke665 said:


> @D7K Thanks for the link, I'll explore it as well. LUT's are something I've used on occasion and like all the tools available I sometimes forget unless I use it on a regular basis.


 I very rarely use them but sometimes, they can help me (and my eyes) to see things as little better, and sometimes for artistic effect as you mention!


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## Derrel (Mar 9, 2019)

ColorMade


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## Designer (Mar 9, 2019)

Derrel said:


> ColorMade


Perhaps I don't understand the point of these presets, but to me they appear to lose a lot of fidelity from the original.  At least the monochrome conversions that I looked at.

(edit) I think they all do.  I checked out some more examples.  They definitely lose fidelity.

(second edit) Some are also introducing digital noise as well.


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## Derrel (Mar 9, 2019)

"FIDELITY" is not the goal...the goal is to create a pleasing picture..."fidelity" is overrated, IMO...


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## Tim Tucker 2 (Mar 9, 2019)

Simulate a  lower DR than digital, softer shadows and highlights, muted and slightly orange in diffuse light with more colour in brighter daylight, forget the *grain* at this size? I've not really used it so a guess:


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## smoke665 (Mar 9, 2019)

Designer said:


> Perhaps I don't understand the point of these presets, but



Think of a preset as an express lane to get from point A to point B. You still have to drive the car,  you have to have a knowledge of where you are and where you're going, but used properly they can save some time. Overused or used on the wrong image and they look cheesy, and amateurish. 

In my case I'm looking for a certain "feel" to an image. Not necessarily the dreamy low contrast images you saw in the presets, but more a case of an ideal skin tone.  Porta 400 as I remember had some nice creamy tones especially in the reds and greens. By mapping that I can transfer it's characteristics to my image thereby creating a more pleasing image.


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## Designer (Mar 9, 2019)

smoke665 said:


> Designer said:
> 
> 
> > Perhaps I don't understand the point of these presets, but
> ...


Once again, I have failed to communicate clearly.

Yes, I know why people buy and use presets, but the examples shown in the website did not, in my opinion, make the photographs better.  

Just my own personal opinion.

IMHO


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## smoke665 (Mar 9, 2019)

Tim Tucker 2 said:


> Simulate a lower DR than digital, softer shadows and highlights,



Interesting I had to look that up to be sure but there is a lower DR, that I need to take into consideration. I agree it seems there is a general consensus that the lower contrast creates softer shadows and highlights.

As to the edit the reds are a little higher then I was shooting for in my tone map. I sort of prefer my last edit, but in looking at it agree with Derrel on the yellow and green. Using some combined suggestion, I switched the LUT layer to Crisp Warm and changed the mode to color as per D7k's suggestion. Which helped to bring up the reds slightly but not overpower the contrast, brought the yellow to more of a warm sun amber. Using your suggestions I dropped the DR back slightly with level and curve adjustments, and limited the green in the highlights tone curve. I think it's getting close, now to try to convert all this to an action for future use.


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## smoke665 (Mar 9, 2019)

Designer said:


> es, I know why people buy and use presets, but the examples shown in the website did not, in my opinion, make the photographs better.
> 
> Just my own personal opinion.



As in all edits, the ideal is to create a pleasing look, without detracting from the original image.  To many times IMO people apply presets across the board without realizing that not all images work with all presets, and that editing actually begins before the shutter clicks, knowing the future of the image helps to build the basics from the ground up. Presets should never be used as corrections but rather enhancements to the bones of the image, IMO.


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## Braineack (Mar 9, 2019)

these are VMCO portra 400 presets:


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## smoke665 (Mar 10, 2019)

@Braineack I actually have a few of the VMCO preset samples and I looked at their Portra offerings. Personally I believe  Portra® Original presets by Mastin Labs offers a better option, though I haven't been willing to turn loose of the hundred dollars to find out. 

It's interesting to note that in the HSL panel you posted the hue adjustments are following an "s" curve pattern. Coincidentally I was just reading an article on Lr edits where the author was talking about using an "s" curve to maintain a more even transition between color.


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## bulldurham (Mar 18, 2019)

Tim Tucker once suggested doing a simple color cast removal and I applied that to your image with no other color adjustments. You can see by the color in the BG trees, there was a significant red/yellow cast. Perhaps this would be a good starting point.
Do it in the first iteration of your post work on a higher res file.


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## smoke665 (Mar 18, 2019)

bulldurham said:


> You can see by the color in the BG trees, there was a significant red/yellow cast. Perhaps this would be a good starting point.



Thank you for commenting and the edit, but that's not really relevant to where I'm going. I correct WB on all my original files to a target at the start, before any editing. By definition a simulation is an "imitation of a situation or process", which would cause significant shifts from the original WB. In this case it was to imitate a particular film look, with a warm finish. 

I'm still testing and tweaking the Action I recorded for this simulation, but it's getting close. I've also been working on a preset for Lr that follows a light and airy look.


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## bulldurham (Mar 18, 2019)

Sorry I misunderstood your intent as to looking for a more airy, lightness. This image uses NIK's Analog Efex Pro and I think for a preset, this will give you more options.


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## smoke665 (Mar 18, 2019)

bulldurham said:


> Sorry I misunderstood your intent as to looking for a more airy, lightness. This image uses NIK's Analog Efex Pro and I think for a preset, this will give you more options.



There you go. I had the NIK collection at one time, but somehow in the process of moving everything to a new computer I lost it. I'd been reluctant to pay for it when they switched to the pay version, because frankly I'd quit using it after Lr made so many updates that it became a unnecessary  duplication.

Actions in Ps and Presets in Lr, lend themselves to batch type processing, a necessary time saver when you have a bunch of images to process and they all need to look similar.  Even if I use a commercial Preset or Action I invariably find myself tweaking, adjusting and saving it to use. For the most part if I find a look I like I'll develop my own and save for the future.


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## bulldurham (Mar 18, 2019)

This was all done in photoshop using color filters both warming and cooling with an added sepia on the cooling filter layer (on layer masks) and exposure layers which I've included.  You could build yourself a similar type setup and then make it into an action and apply it as a batch edit. This is just one quickie idea but i found it pretty easy to dink around.


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## smoke665 (Mar 18, 2019)

bulldurham said:


> color filters both warming and cooling with an added sepia on the cooling filter layer (on layer masks) and exposure layers w



That's one method, but it involves a lot of trial and error. The method I use allows me to sample a photo  to establish color grading reference points. I can then use those to duplicate an almost identical consistent  look in another image, without trial an error. Not at my computer, but I'll send you details of the process later.


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## smoke665 (Mar 18, 2019)

@bulldurham Okay, back again. The process I described works with any digital image you want to duplicate the color grading from. Rather then go in great detail I'll give you the simplified version (I can send you a more detailed version if you want to try it or an Action once I get it finalized).  Using a sample image you first extract either a 3 or 5 color sample using the PS export for web function, and save it as a color table (5 is the max before it gets wonky). With your destination image open you then open a Gradient Map layer, using the eye dropper to sample the color table you saved earlier that tone maps the image. Then back in your sample image you use the brush tool to sample highlights, midtones, and shadows, drawing a sample of each on a blank layer. The blank layer with the brush strokes is pasted into your destination image. Now open a curves layer, and use the eyedropper to select the highlight color from your sample, then click on you image highlight. Do the same for midtones, and shadows, and you have the highlights, midtone, and shadows remapped to match the sample. There's a few other adjustments involved for fine tuning, but that's the gist of it. No masks, selections or filters involved, you're simply remapping the image to your sample.

The advantage of the sample method is that once I've created those samples they can be saved in a library for future use.


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