# Starbucks is discontinuing Hazelnut coffee



## tecboy

I alway buy hazelnut macchiato or latte.  Now, they stop selling.  Hazelnut is less sweeter than caramel coffee.  That is suck!


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## limr

Sorry, but I do not feel your pain. Flavored coffees are an anathema.


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## tirediron

There is only one flavor for coffee!  Coffee-flavour.  Starbucks is the devil!


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## fotomonkey

limr said:


> Sorry, but I do not feel your pain. Flavored coffees are an anathema.


As is Starbucks.


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## limr

tirediron said:


> There is only one flavor for coffee!  Coffee-flavour.  Starbucks is the devil!



I agree with everything except the last sentence. I like their coffee. But then again, I only ever buy their coffee, sometimes a latte (which is just stronger-tasting coffee with hot milk!) 

PS - Here's a trick - you can order a "short" latte and they serve it in a cup that is smaller than a "Tall" so you'll get a better balance between coffee and milk. Short drinks are never on the menu but they are definitely options.


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## limr

fotomonkey said:


> limr said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, but I do not feel your pain. Flavored coffees are an anathema.
> 
> 
> 
> As is Starbucks.
Click to expand...


When the only other options are weak watery brews from delis or the burnt coffee from Dunkin Donuts? Nope. Starbucks is a savior. Though when I can find a good local coffeehouse with good coffee, I'll go there rather than Starbucks.


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## tirediron

limr said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is only one flavor for coffee!  Coffee-flavour.  Starbucks is the devil!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with everything except the last sentence. I like their coffee. But then again, I only ever buy their coffee, sometimes a latte (which is just stronger-tasting coffee with hot milk!)
> 
> PS - Here's a trick - you can order a "short" latte and they serve it in a cup that is smaller than a "Tall" so you'll get a better balance between coffee and milk. Short drinks are never on the menu but they are definitely options.
Click to expand...

Once you add milk, it's no longer coffee, it's a chemical experiment!


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## limr

Mmmm, yummy chemistry


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## BillM

Isn't hazelnut the stuff they serve with those little pink umbrellas in it ?


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## tecboy

tirediron said:


> limr said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is only one flavor for coffee!  Coffee-flavour.  Starbucks is the devil!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with everything except the last sentence. I like their coffee. But then again, I only ever buy their coffee, sometimes a latte (which is just stronger-tasting coffee with hot milk!)
> 
> PS - Here's a trick - you can order a "short" latte and they serve it in a cup that is smaller than a "Tall" so you'll get a better balance between coffee and milk. Short drinks are never on the menu but they are definitely options.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Once you add milk, it's no longer coffee, it's a chemical experiment!
Click to expand...




limr said:


> Mmmm, yummy chemistry



You will become mutants.  Isn't that cool!


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## snerd

limr said:


> Mmmm, yummy chemistry


Hey! That's my motto! Better Living Through Modern Chemistry!!! My med workout is really only 4 usually, but they are the stout ones lol!!


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## runnah

limr said:


> fotomonkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> limr said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, but I do not feel your pain. Flavored coffees are an anathema.
> 
> 
> 
> As is Starbucks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When the only other options are weak watery brews from delis or the burnt coffee from Dunkin Donuts? Nope. Starbucks is a savior. Though when I can find a good local coffeehouse with good coffee, I'll go there rather than Starbucks.
Click to expand...


Dunkin's is the best! Cheap and honest cup of coffee. I refuse to pay $5 for a cup of "coffee" that is mostly candy. Besides those lattes are like 800 calories.


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## limr

So there! Big fat red X for ya!

Btw, how is coffee _dis_honest? The last time I went through the DD drive-through, I ordered a small hot coffee with milk and was instead handed a medium pumpkin-spice coffee with cream and sugar. How's that for honest? 

Around where I live, a cup of basic Starbucks coffee is only about 10 cents more than a cup of basic Dunkin' Donuts coffee.


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## runnah

limr said:


> So there! Big fat red X for ya!
> 
> Btw, how is coffee _dis_honest?



Because they are more concerned about image than making decent coffee.


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## limr

I don't agree that Starbucks is any more concerned with that than any other chain. As for the coffee itself, it's a matter of taste. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's bad coffee.


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## snerd

Gotta agree with DD coffee. Mother-in-law had a pink bag of that stuff last year, it was pretty good!


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## limr

snerd said:


> Gotta agree with DD coffee. Mother-in-law had a pink bag of that stuff last year, it was pretty good!



I find the taste to be too thin for my liking. I like a darker, more robust roast. 

I do like the old-fashioned diner take-out cups, though  (though this one is ceramic)




Day 94 - Coffee by limrodrigues, on Flickr


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## runnah

limr said:


> I don't agree that Starbucks is any more concerned with that than any other chain. As for the coffee itself, it's a matter of taste. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's bad coffee.




Yes it does!!! I am a coffee expert! 

I agree tho, nothing beats a good cup of joe at a diner or truck stop. Even better if a woman named Flo serves it.


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## tecboy

runnah said:


> Dunkin's is the best! Cheap and honest cup of coffee. I refuse to pay $5 for a cup of "coffee" that is mostly candy. Besides those lattes are like 800 calories.



You need to get in the holiday's spirit.  You are going to like a peppermint mocha.


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## snerd

runnah said:


> limr said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't agree that Starbucks is any more concerned with that than any other chain. As for the coffee itself, it's a matter of taste. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's bad coffee.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes it does!!! I am a coffee expert!
> 
> I agree tho, nothing beats a good cup of joe at a diner or truck stop. Even better if a woman named Flo serves it.
Click to expand...

Kiss my grits!!


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## runnah

tecboy said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dunkin's is the best! Cheap and honest cup of coffee. I refuse to pay $5 for a cup of "coffee" that is mostly candy. Besides those lattes are like 800 calories.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need to get in the holiday's spirit.  You are going to like a peppermint mocha.
Click to expand...


I doubt it. Coffee has one flavor...coffee.


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## snerd

limr said:


> snerd said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gotta agree with DD coffee. Mother-in-law had a pink bag of that stuff last year, it was pretty good!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I find the taste to be too thin for my liking. I like a darker, more robust roast.
> 
> I do like the old-fashioned diner take-out cups, though  (though this one is ceramic)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Day 94 - Coffee by limrodrigues, on Flickr
Click to expand...

Yes, I'm not a "dark" coffee drinker. Probably not very strong to most of you, I bet.


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## runnah

snerd said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> limr said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't agree that Starbucks is any more concerned with that than any other chain. As for the coffee itself, it's a matter of taste. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's bad coffee.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes it does!!! I am a coffee expert!
> 
> I agree tho, nothing beats a good cup of joe at a diner or truck stop. Even better if a woman named Flo serves it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Kiss my grits!!
Click to expand...


In diners, I tip solely based on the level of sassy ness of my waitress.


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## limr

tecboy said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dunkin's is the best! Cheap and honest cup of coffee. I refuse to pay $5 for a cup of "coffee" that is mostly candy. Besides those lattes are like 800 calories.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need to get in the holiday's spirit.  You are going to like a peppermint mocha.
Click to expand...


Peppermint is in candy canes or gum. Hot chocolate is a lovely holiday drink. Just keep both of them away from my coffee, please!


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## runnah

limr said:


> tecboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> runnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dunkin's is the best! Cheap and honest cup of coffee. I refuse to pay $5 for a cup of "coffee" that is mostly candy. Besides those lattes are like 800 calories.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need to get in the holiday's spirit.  You are going to like a peppermint mocha.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Peppermint is in candy canes or gum. Hot chocolate is a lovely holiday drink. Just keep both of them away from my coffee, please!
Click to expand...



It would be like me ordering a steak but asking the chef to put gummy bears on it.


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## snerd

runnah said:


> limr said:
> 
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> tecboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> runnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dunkin's is the best! Cheap and honest cup of coffee. I refuse to pay $5 for a cup of "coffee" that is mostly candy. Besides those lattes are like 800 calories.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need to get in the holiday's spirit.  You are going to like a peppermint mocha.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Peppermint is in candy canes or gum. Hot chocolate is a lovely holiday drink. Just keep both of them away from my coffee, please!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It would be like me ordering a steak but asking the chef to put gummy bears on it.
Click to expand...

Or steak sauce! Ack!


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## tecboy

runnah said:


> limr said:
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> tecboy said:
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> runnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dunkin's is the best! Cheap and honest cup of coffee. I refuse to pay $5 for a cup of "coffee" that is mostly candy. Besides those lattes are like 800 calories.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need to get in the holiday's spirit.  You are going to like a peppermint mocha.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Peppermint is in candy canes or gum. Hot chocolate is a lovely holiday drink. Just keep both of them away from my coffee, please!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It would be like me ordering a steak but asking the chef to put gummy bears on it.
Click to expand...


Are you sure?  Peppermint mocha is a once a year lifetime opportunity.  It is only available during Christmas. If you don't try it, you are going wait until next year.


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## runnah

tecboy said:


> runnah said:
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> limr said:
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> tecboy said:
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> runnah said:
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> 
> 
> Dunkin's is the best! Cheap and honest cup of coffee. I refuse to pay $5 for a cup of "coffee" that is mostly candy. Besides those lattes are like 800 calories.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need to get in the holiday's spirit.  You are going to like a peppermint mocha.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Peppermint is in candy canes or gum. Hot chocolate is a lovely holiday drink. Just keep both of them away from my coffee, please!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It would be like me ordering a steak but asking the chef to put gummy bears on it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you sure?  Peppermint mocha is a once a year lifetime opportunity.  It is only available during Christmas. If you don't try it, you are going wait until next year.
Click to expand...


No thank you.


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## 407370

In my neck of the woods the best coffee is served in tiny local shops where you are expected to settle in for the day and get to know the owner. Nothing like a game of chess when you have had 2 Turkish specials and a plate of high sugar nibbles. All the coffee chains are very popular in Qatar but I choose to go native when I can.


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## BillM

Come on people how often do you get a once a year lifetime opportunity


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## tecboy

Speaking of chemistry, Starbucks' beans are genetic modified!


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## Joefbs

All we drink is Starbucks coffee.....We just buy it and brew it at home.


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## Scatterbrained

BillM said:


> Come on people how often do you get a once a year lifetime opportunity


Everyday.   Just get one of these:   http://www.amazon.com/Breville-BES870XL-Barista-Express-Espresso/dp/B00CH9QWOU/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1418614391&sr=8-4&keywords=breville    
Of course, when you just want to enjoy some good, old fashioned coffee you can get one of these: Amazon.com: Cona Coffee Maker - Size 'D' Chrome: Cona Vacuum Coffee Maker: Kitchen & Dining

No need to waste money at Starbucks or Dunkin Donuts, and the coffee's better too.


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## BillM

I'll stick with my Bonavita with Green Monki beans


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## KenC

I like Starbucks coffee (straight, not even milk) and will happily drink it on occasion.  However, there are quite a few independent coffee shops in my area so I usually end up drinking something else.  Many, although not all of them have better coffee, and even where it is not better I prefer local businesses and like to be surprised by the snack selection.

As for Dunkin', it's pretty good, but I don't like it as much as others.


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## limr

My tastes have definitely changed over the years, partly as a function of normal changes to taste as the body ages, and partly due to what I've become accustomed to. I was fine with lighter roasts, and Dunkin' Donuts was one of my favorites. In grad school, there were a lot of really nice coffeehouses that served fresh, darker roasts. Being a grad student, I of course drank a lot of coffee and spent a lot of time in those cafes, and slowly came to favor the stronger taste. Then when I lived overseas, I drank Turkish coffee and espresso - definitely stronger tasting coffee than what is often found in the States. When I came back, I found that Starbucks or other independent coffeehouses served the stronger coffee that I had grown very used to. When I tried to drink lighter roasts - even the Starbucks "blonde" or a "house" blend somewhere - they tasted too weak and watery for me.

I also learned some interesting things when reading this book: Uncommon Grounds: The History of Coffee and How It Transformed Our World: Mark Pendergrast: 9780465018369: Amazon.com: Books  (which is fascinating, btw)
Historically, East Coast roasters made their roasts lighter, while the West Coast favored much darker roasts. Starbucks is a typical West Coast blend and roast which doesn't necessarily suit those East Coasters who grew up on lighter brews like Dunkin' Donuts or diner coffee.

The rest of me is very East Coast but apparently I have West Coast taste buds


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## gsgary

Never use Starbucks they try to fiddle taxes over here so will never use them


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## JustJazzie

Starbucks? No thank you. I'll stay at home and enjoy my little cup of heaven. 2 shots espresso, two shots of frothed heavy cream, a little almond extract and a pinch of sugar......and now I guess I'd better turn on the espresso machine. ;-)


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## runnah

JustJazzie said:


> Starbucks? No thank you. I'll stay at home and enjoy my little cup of heaven. 2 shots espresso, two shots of frothed heavy cream, a little almond extract and a pinch of sugar......and now I guess I'd better turn on the espresso machine. ;-)



Mercy, that is complicated!

Sometimes i get fancy and use real creamer instead of the powdered kind.


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## limr

runnah said:


> Mercy, that is complicated!
> 
> Sometimes i get fancy and use real creamer instead of *the powdered kind*.



Ugh, please tell me you're kidding! The ingredients in that stuff are horrifying.


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## limr

JustJazzie said:


> Starbucks? No thank you. I'll stay at home and enjoy my little cup of heaven. 2 shots espresso, two shots of frothed heavy cream, a little almond extract and a pinch of sugar......and now I guess I'd better turn on the espresso machine. ;-)



I'm with you on the espresso, but you lost me with the other ingredients.  I like my espresso black, no sugar.


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## JustJazzie

limr said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mercy, that is complicated!
> 
> Sometimes i get fancy and use real creamer instead of *the powdered kind*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ugh, please tell me you're kidding! The ingredients in that stuff are horrifying.
Click to expand...

You beat me to this comment. Powder is not food. And neither is flavored liquid lightener. I'll take it black over fake anything else.


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## waday

limr said:


> snerd said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gotta agree with DD coffee. Mother-in-law had a pink bag of that stuff last year, it was pretty good!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I find the taste to be too thin for my liking. I like a darker, more robust roast.
> 
> I do like the old-fashioned diner take-out cups, though  (though this one is ceramic)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Day 94 - Coffee by limrodrigues, on Flickr
Click to expand...

My wife and I bought 6 of those (after my in-laws 'stole' 2 of them).


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## JustJazzie

limr said:


> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Starbucks? No thank you. I'll stay at home and enjoy my little cup of heaven. 2 shots espresso, two shots of frothed heavy cream, a little almond extract and a pinch of sugar......and now I guess I'd better turn on the espresso machine. ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm with you on the espresso, but you lost me with the other ingredients.  I like my espresso black, no sugar.
Click to expand...

It's too strong for me that way, though give me a good cup of toddy black and I'm a happy girl.


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## waday

JustJazzie said:


> limr said:
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> runnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mercy, that is complicated!
> 
> Sometimes i get fancy and use real creamer instead of *the powdered kind*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ugh, please tell me you're kidding! The ingredients in that stuff are horrifying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You beat me to this comment. Powder is not food. And neither are flavored liquid lightener. I'll take it black over fake anything else.
Click to expand...

Food is any 'nutritious' substance, whether liquid, powder, solid, or gelatinous form.


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## runnah

limr said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mercy, that is complicated!
> 
> Sometimes i get fancy and use real creamer instead of *the powdered kind*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ugh, please tell me you're kidding! The ingredients in that stuff are horrifying.
Click to expand...


Compared to some of the other stuff I willingly put into my body I think powdered creamer is the least of my worries.


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## JustJazzie

waday said:


> JustJazzie said:
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> limr said:
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> runnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mercy, that is complicated!
> 
> Sometimes i get fancy and use real creamer instead of *the powdered kind*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ugh, please tell me you're kidding! The ingredients in that stuff are horrifying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You beat me to this comment. Powder is not food. And neither are flavored liquid lightener. I'll take it black over fake anything else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Food is any 'nutritious' substance, whether liquid, powder, solid, or gelatinous form.
Click to expand...


Key word, NUTRITIOUS. Hydrogenated oils and chemicals are actually considered hazardous which is, I am pretty sure, an opposite of nutritious. 

Do You Know What's in Your Non-Dairy Creamer?


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## runnah

waday said:


> JustJazzie said:
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> limr said:
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> runnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mercy, that is complicated!
> 
> Sometimes i get fancy and use real creamer instead of *the powdered kind*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ugh, please tell me you're kidding! The ingredients in that stuff are horrifying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You beat me to this comment. Powder is not food. And neither are flavored liquid lightener. I'll take it black over fake anything else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Food is any 'nutritious' substance, whether liquid, powder, solid, or gelatinous form.
Click to expand...



Yup. Food is all the same basic building blocks. The quantities vary but a steak is the same as a candy bar.


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## JustJazzie

runnah said:


> waday said:
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> JustJazzie said:
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> limr said:
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> runnah said:
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> Mercy, that is complicated!
> 
> Sometimes i get fancy and use real creamer instead of *the powdered kind*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ugh, please tell me you're kidding! The ingredients in that stuff are horrifying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You beat me to this comment. Powder is not food. And neither are flavored liquid lightener. I'll take it black over fake anything else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Food is any 'nutritious' substance, whether liquid, powder, solid, or gelatinous form.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yup. Food is all the same basic building blocks. The quantities vary but a steak is the same as a candy bar.
Click to expand...

I read that as "a hut is the same as a castle" because they have similar building blocks


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## runnah

JustJazzie said:


> Key word, NUTRITIOUS. Hydrogenated oils and chemicals are actually considered hazardous which is, I am pretty sure, an opposite of nutritious.
> 
> Do You Know What's in Your Non-Dairy Creamer?



Well if you want to be specific any thing that humans can consume and digest is nutritious.


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## KenC

All you need to know is the four basic food groups: bags, bottles, boxes and cans.


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## limr

runnah said:


> Yup. Food is all the same basic building blocks. The quantities vary but a steak is the same as a candy bar.



See, now you're just talkin' crazy.


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## runnah

JustJazzie said:


> I read that as "a hut is the same as a castle" because they have similar building blocks



Yeah it's true tho.

Amino acids, proteins etc... all the same.


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## runnah

limr said:


> runnah said:
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> 
> 
> Yup. Food is all the same basic building blocks. The quantities vary but a steak is the same as a candy bar.
> 
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> 
> See, now you're just talkin' crazy.
Click to expand...


How so?


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## limr

A steak is not the same as a candy bar. It's not just about calories. The body is going to process a steak differently from how it processes a candy bar.


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## runnah

limr said:


> A steak is not the same as a candy bar. It's not just about calories. The body is going to process a steak differently from how it processes a candy bar.



No it's not.

Your body breaks down all food into basic elements which it can absorb. The rest is passed.


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## limr

I'm not a biochemist so I don't know all the specifics of how the body digests what, but while it's true that the body will take what it needs and eliminate the rest, you're going to get more of what you need from some things and less from others. There are also other substances that are in some foods and not in others. The process also takes varying amounts of time, which affects the body differently. 

You're just not getting the same things out of a candy bar than you are going to get from meat or vegetables.


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## Scatterbrained

runnah said:


> limr said:
> 
> 
> 
> A steak is not the same as a candy bar. It's not just about calories. The body is going to process a steak differently from how it processes a candy bar.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No it's not.
> 
> Your body breaks down all food into basic elements which it can absorb. The rest is passed.
Click to expand...

Not quite.   Now you're starting to sound like the corn lobby with their "sugar is sugar, your body can't tell the difference" crap.


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## JustJazzie

Nikon cool pix and a d810 both take in light and export jpegs so they are actually the same thing and neither is superior.


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## runnah

limr said:


> I'm not a biochemist so I don't know all the specifics of how the body digests what, but while it's true that the body will take what it needs and eliminate the rest, you're going to get more of what you need from some things and less from others. There are also other substances that are in some foods and not in others. The process also takes varying amounts of time, which affects the body differently.
> 
> You're just not getting the same things out of a candy bar than you are going to get from meat or vegetables.



Right what I am saying like Jazzie mentioned is the house analogy. Think of the body as a house trying to be built. You need basic supplies, (bricks, wood, tiles..etc) every day a truck delivers supplies 3 times a day. Some trucks have more bricks, others have more wood some only have one supply while other have all evenly mixed.


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## runnah

Scatterbrained said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> limr said:
> 
> 
> 
> A steak is not the same as a candy bar. It's not just about calories. The body is going to process a steak differently from how it processes a candy bar.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No it's not.
> 
> Your body breaks down all food into basic elements which it can absorb. The rest is passed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not quite.   Now you're starting to sound like the corn lobby with their "sugar is sugar, your body can't tell the difference" crap.
Click to expand...


I don't know enough about that to make an educated statement.


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## Scatterbrained

runnah said:


> limr said:
> 
> 
> 
> A steak is not the same as a candy bar. It's not just about calories. The body is going to process a steak differently from how it processes a candy bar.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No it's not.
> 
> Your body breaks down all food into basic elements which it can absorb. The rest is passed.
Click to expand...

. . and it'll absorb poison just as fast as it'll absorb protein.


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## limr

Okay, I'm really just not getting your point. Are you really saying it doesn't matter what we eat as long as it has calories?


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## Scatterbrained

runnah said:


> limr said:
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> 
> 
> I'm not a biochemist so I don't know all the specifics of how the body digests what, but while it's true that the body will take what it needs and eliminate the rest, you're going to get more of what you need from some things and less from others. There are also other substances that are in some foods and not in others. The process also takes varying amounts of time, which affects the body differently.
> 
> You're just not getting the same things out of a candy bar than you are going to get from meat or vegetables.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right what I am saying like Jazzie mentioned is the house analogy. Think of the body as a house trying to be built. You need basic supplies, (bricks, wood, tiles..etc) every day a truck delivers supplies 3 times a day. Some trucks have more bricks, others have more wood some only have one supply while other have all evenly mixed.
Click to expand...

...and what if the truck bringing the lumber starting bringing "synthetic" lumber?  Lumber that supposedly looked and performed like real wood but actually bowed over time as well as releasing toxic vapors into your home?     There are a lot of things that the agriculture lobby have managed to slip past the FDA that are actually quite bad for you over time.  Aspartame comes to mind as a major one. . . . .


----------



## JustJazzie

So you're saying there is no such ththing as "higher quality wood" I can get solid wood, wood with termite holes, twigs and branches, or pressed particle board and I would end up with the same quality house in the end? After all, it's all "wood"


runnah said:


> limr said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not a biochemist so I don't know all the specifics of how the body digests what, but while it's true that the body will take what it needs and eliminate the rest, you're going to get more of what you need from some things and less from others. There are also other substances that are in some foods and not in others. The process also takes varying amounts of time, which affects the body differently.
> 
> You're just not getting the same things out of a candy bar than you are going to get from meat or vegetables.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right what I am saying like Jazzie mentioned is the house analogy. Think of the body as a house trying to be built. You need basic supplies, (bricks, wood, tiles..etc) every day a truck delivers supplies 3 times a day. Some trucks have more bricks, others have more wood some only have one supply while other have all evenly mixed.
Click to expand...


----------



## runnah

limr said:


> Okay, I'm really just not getting your point. Are you really saying it doesn't matter what we eat as long as it has calories?



My point is that I took much cold medicine today to form a cogent argument!

Anyways my point is this. All food is made up of basic elements that our body can absorb. The quantities of those various elements differ depending on the source. So an apple will have various amount of X, y and z where as a cracker only might have X.


----------



## runnah

JustJazzie said:


> So you're saying there is no such ththing as "higher quality wood" I can get solid wood, wood with termite holes, twigs and branches, or pressed particle board and I would end up with the same quality house in the end? After all, it's all "wood"



Yes, a tomato only knows how to grow into a tomato. it doesn't know if it's been grown is a field, green house or lab. The gene structure of a tomato doesn't change depending where it's grown (short of being outside chernobyl).


----------



## limr

runnah said:


> limr said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, I'm really just not getting your point. Are you really saying it doesn't matter what we eat as long as it has calories?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My point is that I took much cold medicine today to form a cogent argument!
> 
> Anyways my point is this. All food is made up of basic elements that our body can absorb. The quantities of those various elements differ depending on the source. So an apple will have various amount of X, y and z where as a cracker only might have X.
Click to expand...


I think I get it. Crappy food is crappy, but it's still "food" according to a strict definition of the word "food."

You might want to save that NyQuil for when you actually have a cold


----------



## runnah

limr said:


> You might want to save that NyQuil for when you actually have a cold



I am struggling today to be honest.


----------



## runnah

Scatterbrained said:


> There are a lot of things that the agriculture lobby have managed to slip past the FDA that are actually quite bad for you over time.



I don't disagree with that.


----------



## limr

runnah said:


> Yes, a tomato only knows how to grow into a tomato. it doesn't know if it's been grown is a field, green house or lab. The gene structure of a tomato doesn't change depending where it's grown (short of being outside chernobyl).



The gene structure won't but the chemical make-up might be slightly different depending on where and how it was grown, thus making some more nutritious than others, or at least making them taste differently. A tomato grown in my back yard is going to taste differently than a tomato grown in the back yard of someone who lives across the country because the composition of the soil affects the taste and what the tomato absorbs. That's the concept of _terroir,_ which is a term mostly used for wine but is starting to expand to the description of different foods like butter and cheese.


----------



## limr

runnah said:


> limr said:
> 
> 
> 
> You might want to save that NyQuil for when you actually have a cold
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am struggling today to be honest.
Click to expand...


Hey, but you get points for the correct use of the word "cogent."


----------



## runnah

limr said:


> The gene structure won't but the chemical make-up might be slightly different depending on where and how it was grown, *thus making some more nutritious than others,* or at least making them taste differently. A tomato grown in my back yard is going to taste differently than a tomato grown in the back yard of someone who lives across the country because the composition of the soil affects the taste and what the tomato absorbs. That's the concept of _terroir,_ which is a term mostly used for wine but is starting to expand to the description of different foods like butter and cheese.



Nope, sorry but that is 100% inaccurate and physically impossible. The only way for one tomato to be more nutritious than another is for it to be physically bigger.


----------



## waday

JustJazzie said:


> waday said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> limr said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> runnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mercy, that is complicated!
> 
> Sometimes i get fancy and use real creamer instead of *the powdered kind*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ugh, please tell me you're kidding! The ingredients in that stuff are horrifying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You beat me to this comment. Powder is not food. And neither are flavored liquid lightener. I'll take it black over fake anything else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Food is any 'nutritious' substance, whether liquid, powder, solid, or gelatinous form.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Key word, NUTRITIOUS. Hydrogenated oils and chemicals are actually considered hazardous which is, I am pretty sure, an opposite of nutritious.
> 
> Do You Know What's in Your Non-Dairy Creamer?
Click to expand...

Even things that are nutritious can be hazardous. It depends on the quantities and concentrations.

Also, water is a chemical.


----------



## limr

runnah said:


> Nope, sorry but that is 100% inaccurate and physically impossible. The only way for one tomatoe to be more nutritious than another is for it to be physically bigger.



Why?


----------



## Scatterbrained

Scatterbrained said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> limr said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not a biochemist so I don't know all the specifics of how the body digests what, but while it's true that the body will take what it needs and eliminate the rest, you're going to get more of what you need from some things and less from others. There are also other substances that are in some foods and not in others. The process also takes varying amounts of time, which affects the body differently.
> 
> You're just not getting the same things out of a candy bar than you are going to get from meat or vegetables.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right what I am saying like Jazzie mentioned is the house analogy. Think of the body as a house trying to be built. You need basic supplies, (bricks, wood, tiles..etc) every day a truck delivers supplies 3 times a day. Some trucks have more bricks, others have more wood some only have one supply while other have all evenly mixed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ...and what if the truck bringing the lumber starting bringing "synthetic" lumber?  Lumber that supposedly looked and performed like real wood but actually bowed over time as well as releasing toxic vapors into your home?     There are a lot of things that the agriculture lobby have managed to slip past the FDA that are actually quite bad for you over time.  Aspartame comes to mind as a major one. . . . .
Click to expand...

I curious what about my analogy you disagree with here Runnah?     Think about this:  when "mass production" techniques were first being introduced to agriculture, the south suddenly started dealing with outbreaks of Pellagra; a disease that no-one understood at the time.  The peoples diet hadn't changed.  They were eating the same foods in the same quantities.  What was different was that the processed grains and cornmeal had been stripped of niacin (vitamin B3).   That was before the era of "food science" too.   Think of all the weird **** they're doing to your food now.    Meanwhile,  Aspartame (something that only made it through FDA approval with some heavy handed political wrangling from Don Rumsfeld) has been found to have a 1:1 correlation with metabolic syndrome.   But sure, it doesn't matter what you put in your body, it's all the same, just keep drinkin that diet soda.


----------



## runnah

limr said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, sorry but that is 100% inaccurate and physically impossible. The only way for one tomatoe to be more nutritious than another is for it to be physically bigger.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why?
Click to expand...


Because like I said, the tomato only knows how to grow into a tomato. It may grow bigger and faster in some environments but it's not going to be chemically different.


----------



## runnah

Scatterbrained said:


> I curious what about my analogy you disagree with here Runnah?     Think about this:  when "mass production" techniques were first being introduced to agriculture, the south suddenly started dealing with outbreaks of Pellagra; a disease that no-one understood at the time.  The peoples diet hadn't changed.  They were eating the same foods in the same quantities.  What was different was that the processed grains and cornmeal had been stripped of niacin (vitamin B3).   That was before the era of "food science" too.   Think of all the weird **** they're doing to your food now.    Meanwhile,  Aspartame (something that only made it through FDA approval with some heavy handed political wrangling from Don Rumsfeld) has been found to have a 1:1 correlation with metabolic syndrome.   But sure, it doesn't matter what you put in your body, it's all the same, just keep drinkin that diet soda.



I didn't disagree with it. I think certain things are hookum, organics spring to mind, but I do think there are some less than moral things going on.


----------



## limr

runnah said:


> Because like I said, the tomato only knows how to grow into a tomato. It may grow bigger and faster in some environments but it's not going to be chemically different.



But it would be getting different nutrients - or NOT getting those nutrients - based on soil fertility and composition. Different locations have different soils. Different farming techniques allow more or less nutrient absorption by the plant. So they _would_ be chemically different when analyzing the nutrients that have been absorbed into that tomato, which would then presumably be processed by the person eating the tomato.


----------



## runnah

limr said:


> But it would be getting different nutrients - or NOT getting those nutrients - based on soil fertility and composition. Different locations have different soils. Different farming techniques allow more or less nutrient absorption by the plant. So they _would_ be chemically different when analyzing the nutrients that have been absorbed into that tomato, which would then presumably be processed by the person eating the tomato.



Not enough to be statistically relevant, and certainly not enough to pay $5 for a tomato.


----------



## JustJazzie

The proof is in your health. Runnah, let's note you are currently taking medicine because I assume you are ill, where as I and my "hokum" organic diet with no added chemicals have not been sick in over two years. 

So you go ahead and pay $10 for your Nyquil, and I'll spend $5 on my organic over priced tomato and who actually came out ahead?
*shrug*


----------



## limr

runnah said:


> limr said:
> 
> 
> 
> But it would be getting different nutrients - or NOT getting those nutrients - based on soil fertility and composition. Different locations have different soils. Different farming techniques allow more or less nutrient absorption by the plant. So they _would_ be chemically different when analyzing the nutrients that have been absorbed into that tomato, which would then presumably be processed by the person eating the tomato.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not enough to be statistically relevant, and certainly not enough to pay $5 for a tomato.
Click to expand...


It depends, I suppose. Certain plants will be more sensitive to the soil composition than others. Some plants may absorb more pesticide than another, even if the same amount was sprayed. I do think that sometimes organic isn't worth the extra money because the pesticide would be absorbed by a part of the plant that we discard anyway, but for other things, it might make a difference. I know the differences of an individual plant might not be huge, but that also depends on what is making its way into that plant. Heavy metals, for example, might be present in minuscule amounts in one plant, but consuming small amounts for a long period of time might result in high levels of those metals in a person's body. We don't always eliminate stuff that's bad for us, after all. Some of it makes its way into cells and then stays put.

Anyway, it might not be worth it to some to pay extra for organic produce, but for others, it is. Capitalism and all, y'know


----------



## limr

In other news, I'm currently enjoying a lovely cup of Starbucks coffee with some whole milk added! Yum!


----------



## JustJazzie

Except that tomato isn't "just" a to


runnah said:


> limr said:
> 
> 
> 
> But it would be getting different nutrients - or NOT getting those nutrients - based on soil fertility and composition. Different locations have different soils. Different farming techniques allow more or less nutrient absorption by the plant. So they _would_ be chemically different when analyzing the nutrients that have been absorbed into that tomato, which would then presumably be processed by the person eating the tomato.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not enough to be statistically relevant, and certainly not enough to pay $5 for a tomato.
Click to expand...

tomato, it's Likely a genetically modified tomato blended with some "nutritious" pesticides, while you may get the same benifits from the tomato parts, you are consuming poision along with it. Suppressing your immune system and the benifits of consuming it in the first place


----------



## runnah

JustJazzie said:


> The proof is in your health. Runnah, let's note you are currently taking medicine because I assume you are ill, where as I and my "hokum" organic diet with no added chemicals have not been sick in over two years.
> 
> So you go ahead and pay $10 for your Nyquil, and I'll spend $5 on my organic over priced tomato and who actually came out ahead?
> *shrug*



Don't you smoke?


----------



## Scatterbrained

runnah said:


> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you're saying there is no such ththing as "higher quality wood" I can get solid wood, wood with termite holes, twigs and branches, or pressed particle board and I would end up with the same quality house in the end? After all, it's all "wood"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, a tomato only knows how to grow into a tomato. it doesn't know if it's been grown is a field, green house or lab. The gene structure of a tomato doesn't change depending where it's grown (short of being outside chernobyl).
Click to expand...

No, but it changes quite a bit depending on who's growing it.


Scatterbrained said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> limr said:
> 
> 
> 
> A steak is not the same as a candy bar. It's not just about calories. The body is going to process a steak differently from how it processes a candy bar.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No it's not.
> 
> Your body breaks down all food into basic elements which it can absorb. The rest is passed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not quite.   Now you're starting to sound like the corn lobby with their "sugar is sugar, your body can't tell the difference" crap.
Click to expand...

Going back to this with a very simple, introductory explanation of two different types of sugars that I dug up for you.  I wanted to find something for you that would be straightforward and easy to follow, while explaining just why two seemingly interchangable ingredients (in this case glucose vs. fructose) can effect your body in very different ways:   


> *Glucose*
> The most important monosaccharide is glucose, the body’s preferred energy source. Glucose is also called blood sugar, as it circulates in the blood, and relies on the enzymes glucokinase or hexokinase to initiate metabolism. *Your body processes most carbohydrates you eat into glucose, either to be used immediately for energy or to be stored in muscle cells or the liver as glycogen for later use.* Unlike fructose, insulin is secreted primarily in response to elevated blood concentrations of glucose, and insulin facilitates the entry of glucose into cells.





> *Fructose*
> Fructose is a sugar found naturally in many fruits and vegetables, and added to various beverages such as soda and fruit-flavored drinks. However, it is very different from other sugars because it has a different metabolic pathway and is not the preferred energy source for muscles or the brain. Fructose is only metabolized in the liver and relies on fructokinase to initiate metabolism. *It is also more lipogenic, or fat-producing, than glucose*. Unlike glucose, too*, it does not cause insulin to be released or stimulate production of leptin, a key hormone for regulating energy intake and expenditure*. These factors raise concerns about* chronically high intakes of dietary fructose, because it appears to behave more like fat in the body than like other carbohydrates.*



Meanwhile, we are bombarded daily with "high fructose corn syrup" instead of natural sugars, and we wonder why there is such an obesity epidemic.


----------



## runnah

JustJazzie said:


> Except that tomato isn't "just" a tomato, it's Likely a genetically modified tomato blended with some "nutritious" pesticides, while you may get the same benifits from the tomato parts, you are consuming poision along with it. Suppressing your immune system and the benifits of consuming it in the first place



Is this backed up by a peer-reviewed study or just propaganda?


----------



## waday

limr said:


> In other news, I'm currently enjoying a lovely cup of Starbucks coffee with some whole milk added! Yum!


I enjoy the Holiday blend immensely. Just like the Tribute blend.

More so than any other coffee.


----------



## runnah

Scatterbrained said:


> Meanwhile, we are bombarded daily with "high fructose corn syrup" instead of natural sugars, and we wonder why there is such an obesity epidemic.



I never said HFCS was good for you.


----------



## JustJazzie

runnah said:


> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The proof is in your health. Runnah, let's note you are currently taking medicine because I assume you are ill, where as I and my "hokum" organic diet with no added chemicals have not been sick in over two years.
> 
> So you go ahead and pay $10 for your Nyquil, and I'll spend $5 on my organic over priced tomato and who actually came out ahead?
> *shrug*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't you smoke?
Click to expand...

Marijuana occasionally. I prefer edables.;-)


----------



## runnah

JustJazzie said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The proof is in your health. Runnah, let's note you are currently taking medicine because I assume you are ill, where as I and my "hokum" organic diet with no added chemicals have not been sick in over two years.
> 
> So you go ahead and pay $10 for your Nyquil, and I'll spend $5 on my organic over priced tomato and who actually came out ahead?
> *shrug*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't you smoke?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Marijuana occasionally. I prefer edables.;-)
Click to expand...


Oh I seem to remember you posing with one.

I hope it's all locally grown. Brick from mexico is loaded with crap.

We should hang out...I'll bring the salad.


----------



## JustJazzie

runnah said:


> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Except that tomato isn't "just" a tomato, it's Likely a genetically modified tomato blended with some "nutritious" pesticides, while you may get the same benifits from the tomato parts, you are consuming poision along with it. Suppressing your immune system and the benifits of consuming it in the first place
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is this backed up by a peer-reviewed study or just propaganda?
Click to expand...

I'm in the middle of helping my little one with a science expirement. I'm happy to share some articles on what a gmo is when I can get to a desktop, if you are actually interested in learning something. If you just want to debate, I'll bow out now.


----------



## runnah

JustJazzie said:


> I'm in the middle of helping my little one with a science expirement. I'm happy to share some articles on what a gmo is when I can get to a desktop, if you are actually interested in learning something. If you just want to debate, I'll bow out now.



Oh jeez don't bring GMO into this!

I am always interested in learning, and I always like to have my opinion changed as long as the facts are there.


----------



## JustJazzie

runnah said:


> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> runnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The proof is in your health. Runnah, let's note you are currently taking medicine because I assume you are ill, where as I and my "hokum" organic diet with no added chemicals have not been sick in over two years.
> 
> So you go ahead and pay $10 for your Nyquil, and I'll spend $5 on my organic over priced tomato and who actually came out ahead?
> *shrug*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't you smoke?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Marijuana occasionally. I prefer edables.;-)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh I seem to remember you posing with one.
> 
> I hope it's all locally grown. Brick from mexico is loaded with crap.
> 
> We should hang out...I'll bring the salad.
Click to expand...

It's all local, organic and perfectly legal. that was a pipe, not a cigarette. Just looked like one.  and don't worry, I'll make the salad, and I promise not to bring up the fact that it is made with organic veggies and homemade organic dressing.


----------



## limr

waday said:


> limr said:
> 
> 
> 
> In other news, I'm currently enjoying a lovely cup of Starbucks coffee with some whole milk added! Yum!
> 
> 
> 
> I enjoy the Holiday blend immensely. Just like the Tribute blend.
> 
> More so than any other coffee.
Click to expand...


I was pleasantly surprised by the Holiday blend. I had avoided it because I thought it would be some sort of flavored or spiced concoction, but the other day I asked about it and was told that it's just a darker brew.

My regular practice whenever at a Starbucks is that I ask for a cup of the freshest brew. This is one advantage I will admit that Starbucks has over most local places - the turnover is high enough that there's often a good chance of getting freshly-brewed coffee over stuff that has been sitting for a while.


----------



## runnah

JustJazzie said:


> It's all local, organic and perfectly legal. that was a pipe, not a cigarette. Just looked like one.  and don't worry, I'll make the salad, and I promise not to bring up the fact that it is made with organic veggies and homemade organic dressing.



Good girl. 

Believe it or not I am a fan of organic food and locally grown goods. I just wish there were less mythical claims about it.


----------



## Scatterbrained

runnah said:


> Scatterbrained said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, we are bombarded daily with "high fructose corn syrup" instead of natural sugars, and we wonder why there is such an obesity epidemic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never said HFCS was good for you.
Click to expand...

No, you said (in response to someone calling you out on the powdered creamer) that it didn't matter, because your body would take what it needed and "expel" the rest.   Essentially saying that it didn't much matter.  I'm using fructose and glucose as a very simple example of why it does matter.  Your intestine isn't selective, it takes everything it can.


----------



## runnah

Scatterbrained said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scatterbrained said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, we are bombarded daily with "high fructose corn syrup" instead of natural sugars, and we wonder why there is such an obesity epidemic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never said HFCS was good for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, you said (in response to someone calling you out on the powdered creamer) that it didn't matter, because your body would take what it needed and "expel" the rest.   Essentially saying that it didn't much matter.  I'm using fructose and glucose as a very simple example of why it does matter.  Your intestine isn't selective, it takes everything it can.
Click to expand...


No I responded to the comment that it wasn't "food" by saying it was.


----------



## waday

limr said:


> waday said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> limr said:
> 
> 
> 
> In other news, I'm currently enjoying a lovely cup of Starbucks coffee with some whole milk added! Yum!
> 
> 
> 
> I enjoy the Holiday blend immensely. Just like the Tribute blend.
> 
> More so than any other coffee.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was pleasantly surprised by the Holiday blend. I had avoided it because I thought it would be some sort of flavored or spiced concoction, but the other day I asked about it and was told that it's just a darker brew.
> 
> My regular practice whenever at a Starbucks is that I ask for a cup of the freshest brew. This is one advantage I will admit that Starbucks has over most local places - the turnover is high enough that there's often a good chance of getting freshly-brewed coffee over stuff that has been sitting for a while.
Click to expand...

Absolutely! I thought it was going to be something spicy, too, but it's not. I find it very smooth.

My wife used to work there, and they were able to bring home a pound of coffee a week. It was heavenly.

Now that we have to buy it, it's rare to find it in our house. Just like La Colombe. I wish there was a La Colombe near us.


----------



## JustJazzie

For anyone interested, The Flying Bean (online store) has some pretty good quality flavored coffee at reasonable prices. We don't buy it much anymore as my coffee intake would make us go broke, but it's quite good as a treat.


----------



## waday

JustJazzie said:


> Marijuana occasionally. I prefer edables.;-)


I'm not trying to be adversarial, just literally asking the question to learn:

Assuming you're not doing it for medicinal purposes, wouldn't smoking marijuana and introducing pollutants (e.g., particulate matter) into your body/airway be considered unhealthy?


----------



## JustJazzie

runnah said:


> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's all local, organic and perfectly legal. that was a pipe, not a cigarette. Just looked like one.  and don't worry, I'll make the salad, and I promise not to bring up the fact that it is made with organic veggies and homemade organic dressing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good girl.
> 
> Believe it or not I am a fan of organic food and locally grown goods. I just wish there were less mythical claims about it.
Click to expand...


So when is this party anyways? 

For the record, we don't eat 100% organic, just as much as we can afford. I am more concerned with non gmo than organic. ;-)


----------



## runnah

JustJazzie said:


> So when is this party anyways?
> 
> For the record, we don't eat 100% organic, just as much as we can afford. I am more concerned with non gmo than organic. ;-)



I'd love to visit! I've wanted to go there since I was a wee lad. 

We try to buy local produce and meats but its not really affordable nor is it practical to buy local produce in Maine, in December.


----------



## JustJazzie

waday said:


> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Marijuana occasionally. I prefer edables.;-)
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not trying to be adversarial, just literally asking the question to learn:
> 
> Assuming you're not doing it for medicinal purposes, wouldn't smoking marijuana and introducing pollutants (e.g., particulate matter) into your body/airway be considered unhealthy?
Click to expand...

I never said I was perfect. I just choose my vices wisely.  again, it's not something I partake in daily- or even weekly for that matter, and I have switched over to mostly edibles for when I do indulge.

I do believe that the body is capable of eliminating a certain amount of toxins, and eliminating as many toxins as possible is a healthy choice. Eating mcdonalds once a month, isn't going to kill you, or cause you to get sick, but Consuming conventional food regularly, I believe puts your detox system on overload. 

For the record I am speaking from personal experience. For years I was extremely overweight (I have before and after pictures to prove it) had severe asthma and was on multiple daily medications, and always sick, always tired. I know it sounds cliche' but, when I changed my diet, I changed my life!


----------



## waday

JustJazzie said:


> waday said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Marijuana occasionally. I prefer edables.;-)
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not trying to be adversarial, just literally asking the question to learn:
> 
> Assuming you're not doing it for medicinal purposes, wouldn't smoking marijuana and introducing pollutants (e.g., particulate matter) into your body/airway be considered unhealthy?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I never said I was perfect. I just choose my vices wisely.  again, it's not something I partake in daily- or even weekly for that matter, and I have switched over to mostly edibles for when I do indulge.
> 
> I do believe that the body is capable of eliminating a certain amount of toxins, and eliminating as many toxins as possible is a healthy choice. Eating mcdonalds once a month, isn't going to kill you, or cause you to get sick, but Consuming conventional food regularly, I believe puts your detox system on overload.
> 
> For the record I am speaking from personal experience. For years I was extremely overweight (I have before and after pictures to prove it) had severe asthma and was on multiple daily medications, and always sick, always tired. I know it sounds cliche' but, when I changed my diet, I changed my life!
Click to expand...

Understood.

Congrats on changing your diet! I lost a lot of weight recently, as well. Down about 60 pounds. I completely understand how losing weight makes you feel better!


----------



## JustJazzie

waday said:


> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> waday said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Marijuana occasionally. I prefer edables.;-)
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not trying to be adversarial, just literally asking the question to learn:
> 
> Assuming you're not doing it for medicinal purposes, wouldn't smoking marijuana and introducing pollutants (e.g., particulate matter) into your body/airway be considered unhealthy?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I never said I was perfect. I just choose my vices wisely.  again, it's not something I partake in daily- or even weekly for that matter, and I have switched over to mostly edibles for when I do indulge.
> 
> I do believe that the body is capable of eliminating a certain amount of toxins, and eliminating as many toxins as possible is a healthy choice. Eating mcdonalds once a month, isn't going to kill you, or cause you to get sick, but Consuming conventional food regularly, I believe puts your detox system on overload.
> 
> For the record I am speaking from personal experience. For years I was extremely overweight (I have before and after pictures to prove it) had severe asthma and was on multiple daily medications, and always sick, always tired. I know it sounds cliche' but, when I changed my diet, I changed my life!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Understood.
> 
> Congrats on changing your diet! I lost a lot of weight recently, as well. Down about 60 pounds. I completely understand how losing weight makes you feel better!
Click to expand...

Wow! Good for you! It always makes me truly happy to hear when people making positive changes for themselves. I wish more people, especially my family would follow suit.

I'm down about 70 or so myself, and it wasn't until I cut out chemical additives that I was able to loose it. I tried calorie counting and exercise on a conventional diet and the scale wouldn't budge. I also suspect that I was allergic to some of the chemicals, which aggravated my asthma. It's been a few years now since I lost it, and am so thankful I made the changes I did!


----------



## runnah

JustJazzie said:


> Wow! Good for you! It always makes me truly happy to hear when people making positive changes for themselves. I wish more people, especially my family would follow suit.
> 
> I'm down about 70 or so myself, and it wasn't until I cut out chemical additives that I was able to loose it. I tried calorie counting and exercise on a conventional diet and the scale wouldn't budge. I also suspect that I was allergic to some of the chemicals, which aggravated my asthma. It's been a few years now since I lost it, and am so thankful I made the changes I did!



Not to mention you also look smoking hot!


----------



## JustJazzie

runnah said:


> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow! Good for you! It always makes me truly happy to hear when people making positive changes for themselves. I wish more people, especially my family would follow suit.
> 
> I'm down about 70 or so myself, and it wasn't until I cut out chemical additives that I was able to loose it. I tried calorie counting and exercise on a conventional diet and the scale wouldn't budge. I also suspect that I was allergic to some of the chemicals, which aggravated my asthma. It's been a few years now since I lost it, and am so thankful I made the changes I did!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not to mention you also look smoking hot!
Click to expand...



Was the "smoking" pun intended? :giggle:

Most importantly, I am happy, and healthy. ;-)


----------



## runnah

JustJazzie said:


> Was the "smoking" pun intended? :giggle:
> 
> Most importantly, I am happy, and healthy. ;-)



Yes.


----------



## JacaRanda

runnah said:


> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was the "smoking" pun intended? :giggle:
> 
> Most importantly, I am happy, and healthy. ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.
Click to expand...


AKA Runnahpunpun


----------



## tirediron

limr said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mercy, that is complicated!
> 
> Sometimes i get fancy and use real creamer instead of *the powdered kind*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ugh, please tell me you're kidding! The ingredients in that stuff are horrifying.
Click to expand...

You don't like chemical cow?  I won't put it my coffee, but I've been known to inhale a spoonful now and then.


----------



## limr

tirediron said:


> limr said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> runnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mercy, that is complicated!
> 
> Sometimes i get fancy and use real creamer instead of *the powdered kind*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ugh, please tell me you're kidding! The ingredients in that stuff are horrifying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You don't like chemical cow?  I won't put it my coffee, but I've been known to inhale a spoonful now and then.
Click to expand...


Well, snorting it is a different story 

But no, I barely like natural cow, either. I like it in coffee, but otherwise I don't drink milk or use it for cereal (I use almond milk instead.)


----------



## BillM

And the poor OP just wanted to save Hazelnut coffee


----------



## limr

BillM said:


> And the poor OP just wanted to save Hazelnut coffee



And this is his punishment for that sin


----------



## tecboy

Is hazelnut healthier?


----------



## limr

tecboy said:


> Is hazelnut healthier?



Only if it's organic and not used to flavor coffee 

(Just teasing ya!  )


----------



## mmaria

A thread about coffee and diet! Without me!!!!?

Oh *NO*!!!

First off, you're all wrong! Except those of you who aren't!

Starbucks sucks!
Black espresso or black Turkish coffee _is_ the coffee!

Tomato is much tastier when grown in Europe!

........... and.......... I'm on a special diet. I'm soooooo hungry 




JustJazzie said:


> I have before and after pictures to prove it





waday said:


> I lost a lot of weight recently, as well.


That's great!!!
Now, give us some pictures!


----------



## JustJazzie

mmaria said:


> A thread about coffee and diet! Without me!!!!?
> 
> Oh *NO*!!!
> 
> First off, you're all wrong! Except those of you who aren't!
> 
> Starbucks sucks!
> Black espresso or black Turkish coffee _is_ the coffee!
> 
> Tomato is much tastier when grown in Europe!
> 
> ........... and.......... I'm on a special diet. I'm soooooo hungry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have before and after pictures to prove it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> waday said:
> 
> 
> 
> I lost a lot of weight recently, as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's great!!!
> Now, give us some pictures!
Click to expand...


Why are you on a diet?

Tomatoes are my FAAAVORITE. (and cucumber tomato salad) Ive never had a European tomato, I now feel like my life is incomplete. Ill send you a picture, if you send me a tomato from Europe. ;-)

For you Maria; I will spare you my high school photos, and jump to a standard before and after.






Now, I'm waiting for my tomato..........


----------



## tecboy

Starbucks is selling 40% on all holiday merchandise before the Christmas Day, you better hurry!!!


----------



## D-B-J

limr said:


> fotomonkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> limr said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, but I do not feel your pain. Flavored coffees are an anathema.
> 
> 
> 
> As is Starbucks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When the only other options are weak watery brews from delis or the burnt coffee from Dunkin Donuts? Nope. Starbucks is a savior. Though when I can find a good local coffeehouse with good coffee, I'll go there rather than Starbucks.
Click to expand...


This is my process. First look for a fancy mom and pop shop. No? Starbucks it is!


----------



## fotomonkey

Alas, there aren't many mom & pop shops around. Starbucks just tastes burnt to me.


----------



## D-B-J

fotomonkey said:


> Alas, there aren't many mom & pop shops around. Starbucks just tastes burnt to me.




I should add that I've gotten pretty heavy into making my own french pressed coffee lately [emoji5]️


----------



## Scatterbrained

D-B-J said:


> fotomonkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Alas, there aren't many mom & pop shops around. Starbucks just tastes burnt to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I should add that I've gotten pretty heavy into making my own french pressed coffee lately [emoji5]️
Click to expand...

Get yourself a vacuum coffee maker.  It's like a mini science experiment every time you make coffee.  I haven't pulled out the press in years.


----------



## Scatterbrained

On a side note, I don't think I've ever seen someone quite so. . . .. particular, about their brewing process before.   I went to youtube to grab a video and ended up watching this guys brewing process.  This guy goes above and beyond. . . . .


----------



## fotomonkey

D-B-J said:


> fotomonkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Alas, there aren't many mom & pop shops around. Starbucks just tastes burnt to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I should add that I've gotten pretty heavy into making my own french pressed coffee lately [emoji5]️
Click to expand...

I do enjoy the press but I don't usually take the time. I just got a new one for backpacking, though.

I think my bro does the vacuum thing.


----------



## limr

How does the vacuum maker differ from a percolator?

If I am not using my French press, I'm using a stove-top cafetiere. Or sometimes making Turkish coffee.


----------



## D-B-J

limr said:


> How does the vacuum maker differ from a percolator?
> 
> If I am not using my French press, I'm using a stove-top cafetiere. Or sometimes making Turkish coffee.



I use the stove top cafetiere too! Usually add a few ounces to my french press [emoji5]️


----------



## limr

I still have the one I bought in Portugal 13 years ago. I love it. The only reason I don't use it every day is that I usually drink two cups in the morning but mine makes just enough for one good sized mug and I don't feel like washing it between cups. My French press holds two mugs' worth. But if ever decide I want a third cup at some point, I use the cafetiere.


----------



## waday

JustJazzie said:


> mmaria said:
> 
> 
> 
> A thread about coffee and diet! Without me!!!!?
> 
> Oh *NO*!!!
> 
> First off, you're all wrong! Except those of you who aren't!
> 
> Starbucks sucks!
> Black espresso or black Turkish coffee _is_ the coffee!
> 
> Tomato is much tastier when grown in Europe!
> 
> ........... and.......... I'm on a special diet. I'm soooooo hungry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have before and after pictures to prove it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> waday said:
> 
> 
> 
> I lost a lot of weight recently, as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's great!!!
> Now, give us some pictures!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why are you on a diet?
> 
> Tomatoes are my FAAAVORITE. (and cucumber tomato salad) Ive never had a European tomato, I now feel like my life is incomplete. Ill send you a picture, if you send me a tomato from Europe. ;-)
> 
> For you Maria; I will spare you my high school photos, and jump to a standard before and after.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, I'm waiting for my tomato..........
Click to expand...


I'm REALLY not one for posting pictures of myself... But, here ya go


----------



## Scatterbrained

limr said:


> How does the vacuum maker differ from a percolator?
> 
> If I am not using my French press, I'm using a stove-top cafetiere. Or sometimes making Turkish coffee.


A perculator constantly cycles the water from the bottom, up to the top, meaning you've got partially brewed coffee sitting directly on the heat source.   It makes it pretty easy to "burn" the coffee.   A vacuum coffee maker keeps the brew at a constant temperature while keeping the brewing coffee out of direct contact with the heat source.   It actually tastes a bit "sweeter", if you will.  I find myself using much less sugar in my coffee when I use the vacuum brewer.


----------



## snerd

waday said:


> I'm REALLY not one for posting pictures of myself.........


Life is a cruel mistress.....................


----------



## JustJazzie

waday said:


> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mmaria said:
> 
> 
> 
> A thread about coffee and diet! Without me!!!!?
> 
> Oh *NO*!!!
> 
> First off, you're all wrong! Except those of you who aren't!
> 
> Starbucks sucks!
> Black espresso or black Turkish coffee _is_ the coffee!
> 
> Tomato is much tastier when grown in Europe!
> 
> ........... and.......... I'm on a special diet. I'm soooooo hungry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have before and after pictures to prove it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> waday said:
> 
> 
> 
> I lost a lot of weight recently, as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's great!!!
> Now, give us some pictures!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why are you on a diet?
> 
> Tomatoes are my FAAAVORITE. (and cucumber tomato salad) Ive never had a European tomato, I now feel like my life is incomplete. Ill send you a picture, if you send me a tomato from Europe. ;-)
> 
> For you Maria; I will spare you my high school photos, and jump to a standard before and after.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, I'm waiting for my tomato..........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm REALLY not one for posting pictures of myself... But, here ya goView attachment 91350
Click to expand...

Wow! You look great! all your efforts definitely seem to have paid off!


----------



## JustJazzie

snerd said:


> waday said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm REALLY not one for posting pictures of myself.........
> 
> 
> 
> Life is a cruel mistress.....................
> 
> View attachment 91358
Click to expand...

Doesn't look a bit cruel to me!


----------



## snerd

JustJazzie said:


> snerd said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> waday said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm REALLY not one for posting pictures of myself.........
> 
> 
> 
> Life is a cruel mistress.....................
> 
> View attachment 91358
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Doesn't look a bit cruel to me!
Click to expand...

My baby brudder & me........ probably about 1960 and 2001.


----------



## JustJazzie

snerd said:


> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> snerd said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> waday said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm REALLY not one for posting pictures of myself.........
> 
> 
> 
> Life is a cruel mistress.....................
> 
> View attachment 91358
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Doesn't look a bit cruel to me!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My baby brudder & me........ probably about 1960 and 2001.
Click to expand...

I can tell by the eyes!!


----------



## snerd

JustJazzie said:


> ....... I can tell by the eyes!!


Enough about me. Yours is incredible! Congrats! I kind of know the hard work involved.


----------



## JustJazzie

snerd said:


> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....... I can tell by the eyes!!
> 
> 
> 
> Enough about me. Yours is incredible! Congrats! I kind of know the hard work involved.
Click to expand...

Thank you! It took literally years of slow progress (and reverse progress with pregnancy) to get where I am! Luckily THAT setback can't happen again. ;-)


----------



## snerd

JustJazzie said:


> .......... Luckily THAT setback can't happen again. ;-)


That's what my big sis thought too lol!! If you were talking about tubal ligation. Her youngest was a big surprise!


----------



## JustJazzie

snerd said:


> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> .......... Luckily THAT setback can't happen again. ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> That's what my big sis thought too lol!! If you were talking about tubal ligation. Her youngest was a big surprise!
Click to expand...

No, no. DH was nice enough to take on the prevention. Dr. Said his method does. not. fail. Hopefully it's true! Love my kiddos, but two is a perfect number for me.


----------



## snerd

JustJazzie said:


> snerd said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> .......... Luckily THAT setback can't happen again. ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> That's what my big sis thought too lol!! If you were talking about tubal ligation. Her youngest was a big surprise!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, no. DH was nice enough to take on the prevention. Dr. Said his method does. not. fail. Hopefully it's true! Love my kiddos, but two is a perfect number for me.
Click to expand...

Ah, gotcha! I had the 'ole snipperoo in 1992.


----------



## Scatterbrained

JustJazzie said:


> snerd said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> .......... Luckily THAT setback can't happen again. ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> That's what my big sis thought too lol!! If you were talking about tubal ligation. Her youngest was a big surprise!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, no. DH was nice enough to take on the prevention. Dr. Said his method does. not. fail. Hopefully it's true! Love my kiddos, but two is a perfect number for me.
Click to expand...

Let's just hope you don't end up as one of those "OMG I'm 5o an pregnant" woman whose hubbies pipes manage to fix themselves.


----------



## tirediron

Scatterbrained said:


> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> snerd said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> .......... Luckily THAT setback can't happen again. ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> That's what my big sis thought too lol!! If you were talking about tubal ligation. Her youngest was a big surprise!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, no. DH was nice enough to take on the prevention. Dr. Said his method does. not. fail. Hopefully it's true! Love my kiddos, but two is a perfect number for me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let's just hope you don't end up as one of those "OMG I'm 5o an pregnant" woman whose hubbies pipes manage to fix themselves.
Click to expand...

Yeahbut... if she did, then she'd be able to get her own "reality" series on Fox!


----------



## D-B-J

tirediron said:


> Scatterbrained said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> snerd said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> .......... Luckily THAT setback can't happen again. ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> That's what my big sis thought too lol!! If you were talking about tubal ligation. Her youngest was a big surprise!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, no. DH was nice enough to take on the prevention. Dr. Said his method does. not. fail. Hopefully it's true! Love my kiddos, but two is a perfect number for me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let's just hope you don't end up as one of those "OMG I'm 5o an pregnant" woman whose hubbies pipes manage to fix themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeahbut... if she did, then she'd be able to get her own "reality" series on Fox!
Click to expand...



I'd watch it [emoji16]


----------



## mmaria

JustJazzie said:


> Why are you on a diet?


Stupid Candida! 
No wheat, no yeast, no milk, no sugar, no fruit, no meat (actually meat and some of milk products is allowed but I personally can't have milk and I don't eat meat)  ... nothing!
So... it's tough to balance a meal. It's the seven't day and I already lost some weight.



JustJazzie said:


> Tomatoes are my FAAAVORITE. (and cucumber tomato salad) Ive never had a European tomato, I now feel like my life is incomplete. Ill send you a picture, if you send me a tomato from Europe. ;-)
> .....Now, I'm waiting for my tomato..........


A few years ago when I was practising food photography tomatoes were my favorite subject, because they're demanding subjects. Too bad I deleted every picture I had.... Yup ... fool...

No tomatoes now here, but I'll send you a few sorts when it's their season 




JustJazzie said:


> For you Maria; I will spare you my high school photos, and jump to a standard before and after.


That's simply an amazing achievement! 
You should be proud of yourself... and I know you are!


----------



## mmaria

waday said:


> I'm REALLY not one for posting pictures of myself... But, here ya goView attachment 91350


----------



## JustJazzie

Scatterbrained said:


> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> snerd said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> .......... Luckily THAT setback can't happen again. ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> That's what my big sis thought too lol!! If you were talking about tubal ligation. Her youngest was a big surprise!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, no. DH was nice enough to take on the prevention. Dr. Said his method does. not. fail. Hopefully it's true! Love my kiddos, but two is a perfect number for me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let's just hope you don't end up as one of those "OMG I'm 5o an pregnant" woman whose hubbies pipes manage to fix themselves.
Click to expand...

Woah there! Those are fighting words. *smh*


tirediron said:


> Scatterbrained said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> snerd said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> .......... Luckily THAT setback can't happen again. ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> That's what my big sis thought too lol!! If you were talking about tubal ligation. Her youngest was a big surprise!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, no. DH was nice enough to take on the prevention. Dr. Said his method does. not. fail. Hopefully it's true! Love my kiddos, but two is a perfect number for me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let's just hope you don't end up as one of those "OMG I'm 5o an pregnant" woman whose hubbies pipes manage to fix themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeahbut... if she did, then she'd be able to get her own "reality" series on Fox!
Click to expand...

 and this is even worse! I don't care if I'm 50 and pregnant with twin hippos, I would NEVER EVER have my life turned into such smut! There isn't any tv more pointless, and poisonous than reality TV.


D-B-J said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scatterbrained said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> snerd said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> .......... Luckily THAT setback can't happen again. ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> That's what my big sis thought too lol!! If you were talking about tubal ligation. Her youngest was a big surprise!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, no. DH was nice enough to take on the prevention. Dr. Said his method does. not. fail. Hopefully it's true! Love my kiddos, but two is a perfect number for me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let's just hope you don't end up as one of those "OMG I'm 5o an pregnant" woman whose hubbies pipes manage to fix themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeahbut... if she did, then she'd be able to get her own "reality" series on Fox!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'd watch it
Click to expand...

 *smh*



mmaria said:


> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why are you on a diet?
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid Candida!
> No wheat, no yeast, no milk, no sugar, no fruit, no meat (actually meat and some of milk products is allowed but I personally can't have milk and I don't eat meat)  ... nothing!
> So... it's tough to balance a meal. It's the seven't day and I already lost some weight.
> 
> 
> 
> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tomatoes are my FAAAVORITE. (and cucumber tomato salad) Ive never had a European tomato, I now feel like my life is incomplete. Ill send you a picture, if you send me a tomato from Europe. ;-)
> .....Now, I'm waiting for my tomato..........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A few years ago when I was practising food photography tomatoes were my favorite subject, because they're demanding subjects. Too bad I deleted every picture I had.... Yup ... fool...
> 
> No tomatoes now here, but I'll send you a few sorts when it's their season
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> For you Maria; I will spare you my high school photos, and jump to a standard before and after.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's simply an amazing achievement!
> You should be proud of yourself... and I know you are!
Click to expand...


That doesn't sound like a diet, it sounds more like creative torture! Is this a long term tragedy? Or more hopefully, temporary.

-thank you! As usual, I have a few more lbs to go, but I'm in no big hurry. ;-)


----------



## astroNikon

hmm ... thought this was a thread about coffee.

I see dieting and non-creation things ...

was going to ask .. when did Starbucks start making coffee again ?
I thought they stopped that a long time ago when they made syrup based, high calorie hot drinks instead.


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## JustJazzie

astroNikon said:


> hmm ... thought this was a thread about coffee.
> 
> I see dieting and non-creation things ...
> 
> was going to ask .. when did Starbucks start making coffee again ?
> I thought they stopped that a long time ago when they made syrup based, high calorie hot drinks instead.


I thought when things were posted in "off topic" the thread was SUPPOSED to be detailed OFF (the chosen) Topic :heasdscratch:


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## pgriz

> As usual, I have a few more lbs to go, but I'm in no big hurry. ;-)



My basic attitude toward this stuff is...  it's about "healthy" and not about a specific look or body shape.  I have the same body shape as I did 40 years ago, same height, weight, and general body distribution.  My wife has a "pear" shape, but in terms of her health and biochemistry, everything is good.  One of my daughters is tall and lean.  Another has "big bones" but is healthy and in excellent shape.  Another is "womanly" but also in great health and shape.  Food-wise, we all stay away from junk calories and focus on mostly vegetables and fruits with some lean meat from time to time.  All of us exercise to a lesser or greater degree.  And yet, each of my female relatives expresses some dissatisfaction with their "shape".  I do get why, but I hate the brainwashing that they have absorbed from the media and society.  All this to say if you are healthy, and your shape/size does not prevent you from doing any activity you want, then your "shape" is fine.  We as a society are too obsessed by superficial appearance, as the expense of deeper and more important qualities.

Ok.  Rant over.  Carry on.


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## limr

pgriz said:


> As usual, I have a few more lbs to go, but I'm in no big hurry. ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My basic attitude toward this stuff is...  it's about "healthy" and not about a specific look or body shape.  I have the same body shape as I did 40 years ago, same height, weight, and general body distribution.  My wife has a "pear" shape, but in terms of her health and biochemistry, everything is good.  One of my daughters is tall and lean.  Another has "big bones" but is healthy and in excellent shape.  Another is "womanly" but also in great health and shape.  Food-wise, we all stay away from junk calories and focus on mostly vegetables and fruits with some lean meat from time to time.  All of us exercise to a lesser or greater degree.  And yet, each of my female relatives expresses some dissatisfaction with their "shape".  I do get why, but I hate the brainwashing that they have absorbed from the media and society.  All this to say if you are healthy, and your shape/size does not prevent you from doing any activity you want, then your "shape" is fine.  We as a society are too obsessed by superficial appearance, as the expense of deeper and more important qualities.
> 
> Ok.  Rant over.  Carry on.
Click to expand...


It's unhealthy to keep rants inside! 

It bothers me too that so many women obsess over trying to fit into an increasingly impossible standard of beauty (thank you, Photoshop). 

But what ALSO bothers me are the massive marketing efforts directed at helping us feel beautiful no matter what our shape is, because these efforts are STILL trying to get us to believe that our self-esteem and confidence should be derived from our perception of our own appearance. The message is still the same: your sense of self-worth stems from whether or not you believe you are beautiful. Appearance is still more important than intelligence/compassion/character/integrity/strength/[insert positive quality here].

Of course most of this marketing is just to sell products (Dove, Special K...) but I've seen this kind of "campaign" from plenty of different organizations. I'm really tired of them.

If it's important to someone to feel beautiful, then she should, no matter what she looks like. But if she doesn't give a crap, she shouldn't feel like she has to "work on her self-esteem" because maybe she already feels good about herself regardless of appearance.


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## pgriz

I think the real issue is not so much feeling "beautiful", but feeling worthy.  Our society places "beauty" as the reason to feel worthy, whereas one's worth should (in my opinion) be based on that person's contribution to the general well-being.  I know, I know, crazy talk.


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## JustJazzie

pgriz said:


> I think the real issue is not so much feeling "beautiful", but feeling worthy.  Our society places "beauty" as the reason to feel worthy, whereas one's worth should (in my opinion) be based on that person's contribution to the general well-being.  I know, I know, crazy talk.



I do see your point! And for me, health is of utmost importance. I am not going to starve myself to loose those last 5-10 lbs, I would NEVER resort to plastic surgery (not to say I haven't been tempted (I've even made a consult once) !)  because in the end, I believe the health risk is much too great.

But, as of right now I do not exercise, so if wanting to loose another 5+ lbs is the motivation I need to start up a healthy habit like exercise I just don't really see it as a bad thing. *shrug*

Do I believe you can be "womanly" AND healthy? Absolutely! In fact many of the ladies I find most attractive are not even close to the "model type" but have healthy habits.

Do I think I would be a healthier version of myself if I chose to exercise and keep my midsection down? YUP! ;-)


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## snerd

JustJazzie said....... "There isn't any tv more pointless, and poisonous than reality TV."

You should have been around to help me convince my soon-to-be-ex-wife of this!! I cannot stand ANY of those totally-void-of-content waste of time excuses for television viewing!!! How it ever got started, and how it continues to flourish, is a testament to how human nature tends to respond to the basest of things. At last count, she had 412 of them DVR'd!! I couldn't watch TV, because at some point, the message would come up that is was going to change channels to record another one! All 3 recording channels in use at the same time!! Arrrggghhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!

/rant


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## JustJazzie

snerd said:


> JustJazzie said....... "There isn't any tv more pointless, and poisonous than reality TV."
> 
> You should have been around to help me convince my soon-to-be-ex-wife of this!! I cannot stand ANY of those totally-void-of-content waste of time excuses for television viewing!!! How it ever got started, and how it continues to flourish, is a testament to how human nature tends to respond to the basest of things. At last count, she had 412 of them DVR'd!! I couldn't watch TV, because at some point, the message would come up that is was going to change channels to record another one! All 3 recording channels in use at the same time!! Arrrggghhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> /rant


Reality tv, and Facebook are on the top of my hate list right now. "Let me sit around and watch other peoples (fake, dramatized) lives, while my own falls apart around me"

Edit: it could be logically argued that TPF is my own "reality tv" because I waste so much time on here. Please don't bring that up.


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## pgriz

Reality TV seems to be an excuse to have people be mean to each other.  I think I watched with my wife the first (or second) episode of Survivor, and decided there are better uses of my time.  She quit those as well.  Watched the talent shows for a while, then decided they too didn't deserve our viewing time.  Watching people crash and burn just doesn't seem to be that entertaining.  

Snerd, my condolences to you.  It can't be easy.


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