# Is shoot and burn the future in Professional Photography?



## Lake Mary (Oct 2, 2009)

Visited with a pro colleague today who is a State and national member of PPA.  She informed me the future of professional photography is to shoot, edit, burn, and release to the client rights to print wherever.  I disagreed as i consider my business a full service studio.  I mentioned why should a box store make profits from your images when you are just watching on the sidelines.

So the debate is on.  Shoot and burn and get more business or stay traditional and not allow box stores your profits.

Thanks


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## musicaleCA (Oct 2, 2009)

Hells no. I don't want someone printing at WalMart and having my name attached to that photo. *shudder*


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## camz (Oct 2, 2009)

musicaleCA said:


> Hells no. I don't want someone printing at WalMart and having my name attached to that photo. *shudder*


 
Yeah I agree with musicaleCA it is a scary thought.

However I think the industry gets this impression because some photographers don't deal with the printing side of photography. It's a whole different art in itself. Having it viewed and enhanced for web versus in paper takes two different types of color management and it becomes a pain in the arse for others. Don't get me wrong we sell the rights to clients though it's going to cost them atleast $1500 for a whole series. 

Unfortunately being that there are many photographers that shoot and burn can't offer printing options. Not only do they create the risk of having clients incorrectly print their work but also cut off potential income and give the impression of a "cheap photographer".


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## Derrel (Oct 2, 2009)

I think your friend is exaggerating a little bit. Shoot and burn is a bit too one-sided and extreme, and does not take into account a range of business models, like one where you insist on a fairly substantial sitting fee, like $375 to $550, and not the old-school sitting fee of $50 to $100.

With the ease of home printing,as well as the rise in true top-quality printing from many sources, digital image files are now worth MORE to a client than they were before inkjet printers became available to people. Now that clients can actually "do" something with digital files, now that they have software or access to softeware, they actually have an interest in purchasing the files.

Does your friend even recall just a few years ago when people had, "no use for the pictures on computer disc?" era. Probably not...she sound slike a doomsdayer, unable to understand how to price services and goods...as a photographer you are offering both services AND goods. Her approach seems to ignore a critical aspect of the way the relationship works, and she seems not to take into account there are people who want prints, small on up to wall canvas sizes, and who are not bottom-feeder shoppers. There are still millions of people with money to pay for the "goods" part, but her scenario ignores the higher-end clients who want a tangible,actual product,not just images on a disc.

Addendum to MusicaleCA,posting below me:No,my usage was correct--it's "disc",and BTW it's spelled Compact Disc, with caps on C and D, a "c" at the end of it. A disk is a hard drive--a "disc" is a small,round, flat piece of media. DVD, CD,and DVD-RAM are examples of disc media. My computer has a 1-terrabyte hard disk system. Clients get images on "disc".


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## musicaleCA (Oct 2, 2009)

It's called a compact disk. 

The only way I'd feel comfortable with such a business model is if I were able to direct them to labs that I know do quality work, and stipulate that those are the only places they're allowed to print. Sure it's restrictive, but most sane people will begin to understand once you start telling them&#8212;in simple terms&#8212;why they really, really, really don't want to get super-cheap (and poor quality) prints.

But then again, I guarantee my prints for life, and use professional labs for any paid work. So it's a bit of a moot point. If they want to print elsewhere, fine, but don't come whining to me when it starts fading in ten years.


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## tirediron (Oct 2, 2009)

I'm not convinced it's the "future" of photography, but I suspect that more and more clients are going to demand it.  Personally, I don't have a huge heartache with it.  I've had sample images printed at a range of labs, from Wal-Mart to the high-end, "Don't even darken our doorstep if you shoot with anything less than an H3D" and the difference really isn't all that remarkable.


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## misol (Oct 2, 2009)

I think it is.  I tried to do prints for the same reason everyone does.  But people:
think they should have rights to pics because the pics are of them or their families
know how much printing costs
want cds and will just go to people who offer them
people dont put high value on art
it is very easy to steal images.  Even if you dont get it online, you can buy a bunch of 4x6 and scan them (it happens alot!)
if they have ripped you off this way, they are going to not as likely use you again


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## craig (Oct 2, 2009)

Basically I only shoot & Burn.

I am a commercial shooter as opposed to retail. My clients rarely if ever need prints. Raw and then final jpgs are posted in a secure gallery. I then send a CD of full resolution tiffs for printing and jpgs for web. I print a contact sheet, but that is about it. Actually offer a free print or two if needed, but no one has taken me up on it. More importantly the client owns the rights to the photos and can produce them as they see fit.

My clients pay dearly for this service. The work mainly goes to press or web. For clients who need press services I will (free of charge) add specific profiles and CMYK conversions. Thankfully CMYK conversions are done by prepress which saves my butt. Model portfolios have thus far stuck with web I think. If they have them printed I have not heard about it. I trust it was not at Walmart, because we are professionals. If it was... As long as the check clears... Call it an easy day.

For retail shooters I understand that image and polish are everything. I also know that print sales are bringing in loot. My advice is to consider a different business model. Get the work great out of the camera, edit post and burn. Maybe consider 17 prints as opposed to 34. Put the images on a cd and call it good. Of course price accordingly. That is where the tough math will come in.

Love & Bass


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## epp_b (Oct 2, 2009)

I think craig has the answer.  One can't keep expecting to create an artificial scarcity and selling the same work perpetually.

You do your work, you charge a reasonable cost, move onto the next client.  Kinda like... y'know, a *job*


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## camz (Oct 3, 2009)

epp_b said:


> I think craig has the answer.  One can't keep expecting to create an artificial scarcity and selling the same work perpetually.
> 
> You do your work, you charge a reasonable cost, move onto the next client.  Kinda like... y'know, a *job*



I don't necessarily agree with that.  9/10 of our wedding clients prefer a wedding album.  I think when you portray your business as just that(whatever it maybe) you will attract that particular client.  We portray it to the ones who want to spend and not worry about printing themselves.  Designing an album is a very tedious job as you probably already know so most of our clients just don't want to deal with that.  Sure they can get individual prints if they get the cd and try to create album themselves but it sure won't be up to par as a pro finished one.  If charging $800-$1200 for an album (aside the sitting fee) with only 24 sides doesn't seem like a valuable income to the ones who shoot and burn are sure missing a big ol boat.

I swear a wedding album creates a good marketing tool to through referral.  I've heard so many referrals that've said I saw your work from a clients album resulting to another client.


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## FrankLamont (Oct 3, 2009)

People will get more educated in prints.

So for a while, the print market will go back a little higher.

Then they'll get smarter and go to pro labs and... :meh: 

The cycle begins again. But live for now, eh?


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## phocus78 (Oct 3, 2009)

It'll be both, there's space for both.


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## Big Mike (Oct 5, 2009)

> She informed me the future of professional photography is to shoot, edit, burn, and release to the client rights to print wherever.


That's sort of like saying "The future of the restaurant business is McDonald's."  

There is certainly a market for that, and you can make a lot of money doing it....but there will always be a higher market who are willing to pay more for great service and products.

So you just have to ask yourself, which market segment you want to cater to.


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## NateWagner (Oct 5, 2009)

I am starting to consider doing more of a shoot and burn approach, and having the only real printed items I push be things such as albums, and fine art type applications such as gallery wraps and canvas. 

As was said earlier this is primarily because clients generally can't, and/or won't put the time, effort, and resources in to making a truly professional level album. This is something that I can offer that Walmart won't. This is where my work stands out above what they could get elsewhere. 

With prints, is the print quality at a pro-lab going to be better than that at a local walmart? sure, maybe a bit. But, this is where they won't necessarily be able to see the difference. Will they see the difference in an album though? Absolutely.


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## Lyncca (Oct 5, 2009)

NateWagner said:


> I am starting to consider doing more of a shoot and burn approach, and having the only real printed items I push be things such as albums, and fine art type applications such as gallery wraps and canvas.
> 
> As was said earlier this is primarily because clients generally can't, and/or won't put the time, effort, and resources in to making a truly professional level album. This is something that I can offer that Walmart won't. This is where my work stands out above what they could get elsewhere.
> 
> With prints, is the print quality at a pro-lab going to be better than that at a local walmart? sure, maybe a bit. But, this is where they won't necessarily be able to see the difference. Will they see the difference in an album though? Absolutely.


 
This is where I am at. For weddings, I give a disk in a beautiful silk portfolio with a 4x6 print next to it and focus on professional goods such as albums, canvases etc. as my upsell items.  This disk is also available for an additional fee for my portrait sessions, but it is not included.

In my experience people want the files for not only printing, but also for the safe-keeping of them. I have had so many people say that they lost touch with a photographer and couldn't ever get old prints, or print releases, etc. of their parents wedding pictures for example.

I'm trying to mix the two of giving digital files, but still giving the class and packaging that add that little extra bit. Oh, and I strongly recommend particular labs for the client to use and tell them that I won't guarantee quality from Walmart etc.


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## craig (Oct 5, 2009)

Brilliant solution Lyncca. I like you business sense.

Commercial photographers are more likely to use the shoot and burn method. Their clients generally have no need for custom prints. The work goes to press and or web. Retail shooters will always make money of an album. For retail; the shoot and burn approach may be a little slow coming.

Love & Bass


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## uberben (Oct 8, 2009)

Lyncca said:


> NateWagner said:
> 
> 
> > This is where I am at. For weddings, I give a disk in a beautiful silk portfolio with a 4x6 print next to it and focus on professional goods such as albums, canvases etc. as my upsell items.  This disk is also available for an additional fee for my portrait sessions, but it is not included.
> ...


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## NateWagner (Oct 8, 2009)

It looks like the ones that I use which I got from dnlphoto.com

They're a little expensive, but they look really nice.


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## berko1021 (Nov 12, 2010)

While I agree with what most of you just said, I had to start offering shoot and burns in order to compete with the market out here (In New York City shoots and burns are popping up like crazy). I was not a fan of giving up control. I recently bumped into this company that puts together prints and albums for "shoot and burn" clients. I figured I would try them and was actually quite impressed. They also have benefits to me when I recommend my client there. Their site is: http://www.bridalalbums.net .

This has actually made me rethink my business model and have recently been offering more shoot and burns, knowing now, that there is someone I can refer my clients to go so they don't end up at WalMart.


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## burgo (Nov 12, 2010)

I offer all the variations. Print, Albums & Burn. You make less money on burn but giving the client what they want equals good word of mouth and more customers. Still even with burn type customers I always seem to get print orders as well. It is how you market yourself at the time is what matters. The other thing is I charge a bit more on my image disks to compensate for some of the loss at losing the prints.


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