# Bella?



## Rhys (May 20, 2008)

Anybody heard anything about Bella?

They rang me today and want to see my portfolio.


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## Overread (May 20, 2008)

Is Bella all you have - did they give you a website link or address to contact - offices?


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## Rhys (May 20, 2008)

Bellapictures.com

I had a chat with a lady in San Francisco and she seemed keen after she saw one of my hidden galleries.


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## *Mike* (May 20, 2008)

Check out OSP and DWF, Bella has developed a horrible name among photographers over the past year...  At one time I recommended them as a decent way to fill your calendar, but I wouldn't consider sending a photog to them ever again.


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## Antithesis (May 21, 2008)

I've heard pretty bad things about them. I've been told that they hire pretty much anyone, underpay their photog's and will look pretty bad on a resume. If you need to book a few extra weddings here and there, I don't see too much harm, just keep in mind they won't look good to future photography-based employers.


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## Rhys (May 21, 2008)

Antithesis said:


> I've heard pretty bad things about them. I've been told that they hire pretty much anyone, underpay their photog's and will look pretty bad on a resume. If you need to book a few extra weddings here and there, I don't see too much harm, just keep in mind they won't look good to future photography-based employers.



I know they have a base rate of about $1800 for a wedding. I don't know how much they pay out of that though. I have my own photography business so this would essentially give me extra exposure. I could hand out my business cards and wear my logo'd clothing at each wedding and I figure that'd be great advertising for me.


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## *Mike* (May 21, 2008)

Umm... Shooting a wedding for one company, while handing out business cards for your own company, sounds a little tacky... Don't ya think?


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## ScottS (May 21, 2008)

Bella is evil and is killing the wedding photography business. 

Their business practice is dishonest.


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## Rhys (May 21, 2008)

*Mike* said:


> Umm... Shooting a wedding for one company, while handing out business cards for your own company, sounds a little tacky... Don't ya think?



I'm in business to make money. If that means I occasionally need to get tacky then so be it.


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## *Mike* (May 21, 2008)

Rhys said:


> I'm in business to make money. If that means I occasionally need to get tacky then so be it.



If you "need" to, odds are you're doing something else wrong...


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## Rhys (May 21, 2008)

Nah. I see it as a cheap way of advertising my own business.


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## *Mike* (May 21, 2008)

You and Bella belong together...


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## Foques (May 21, 2008)

Mike, from all your posts i've read so far, you are WAY too judgmental.

Especially, since the practices of the company is dishonest, I don't see anything wrong in what Rhys does.

When I was working for Geek Squad, I was hired by GS clients on the side because they did not like the whole payment/dispatch process.. Tacky, you say?
Okay, so be it. It allows Rhys to put food on his table.


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## Big Mike (May 21, 2008)

If the parent/primary company (Bella or G.S.) allows the sub-contractor to advertise or promote their business then I would think it's fair game...but if they have a clause in their contract to prohibit that, the it shouldn't be done.

And lets please keep this on-topic and not resort to our opinions of other members.


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## Rhys (May 21, 2008)

Big Mike said:


> If the parent/primary company (Bella or G.S.) allows the sub-contractor to advertise or promote their business then I would think it's fair game...but if they have a clause in their contract to prohibit that, the it shouldn't be done.
> 
> And lets please keep this on-topic and not resort to our opinions of other members.



At the end of the day, it's a question of balances. If it's in the contract that you can't *advertise* your own business then you have to weigh up whether the number of potential clients at a function is worth breaking that part of the contract.

If you know you're going to get $10,000 worth of business by breaking a $500 contract then I'd say it looks well worthwhile.


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## JIP (May 21, 2008)

Rhys said:


> I know they have a base rate of about $1800 for a wedding. I don't know how much they pay out of that though. I have my own photography business so this would essentially give me extra exposure. I could hand out my business cards and wear my logo'd clothing at each wedding and I figure that'd be great advertising for me.


 
If you are shooting for a company (I am not familiar with Bella) I would imagine you will have some kind of agreement that you are not to be doing things like this.  I would imagine that wering tacky branded clothing to one of their weddings would be a no-no to but I would think something like that would be a no-no anyway as an side I personally would never go to a wedding without a nice shirt and a tie for me snything else would be extremely tacky you should be dressed at leas as nice as a well dressed guest.  Anyway as far as them charging $1800 considering what their overhead must be I can't imagine that would leave alot to pay a photographer.  On the other side of this though a company imilar to this ould be a good way for someone to get a start as you leave the liabiltiy to them.


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## Big Mike (May 21, 2008)

> If you know you're going to get $10,000 worth of business by breaking a $500 contract then I'd say it looks well worthwhile.


I guess that depends on your personal ethics.  

I'd be leery to hire someone who was doing that.  What's to say that they won't skip out on me if a better, more lucrative opportunity comes up?


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## Antithesis (May 21, 2008)

*Mike* said:


> Umm... Shooting a wedding for one company, while handing out business cards for your own company, sounds a little tacky... Don't ya think?



Yep, about as tacky as getting sued because Bella undoubtedly has some form of non-compete agreement so people don't do that.


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## Rhys (May 21, 2008)

Antithesis said:


> Yep, about as tacky as getting sued because Bella undoubtedly has some form of non-compete agreement so people don't do that.



The art of signing contracts is crossing out the bits you don't agree with and making sure the other party doesn't notice before they sign and you get a copy


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## JIP (May 21, 2008)

Rhys said:


> The art of signing contracts is crossing out the bits you don't agree with and making sure the other party doesn't notice before they sign and you get a copy


 
Yeah that'll work....


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## *Mike* (May 21, 2008)

I guess my perspective on this is, why go about unethical, or tacky, behavior, when it's not necessary.  If someone was looking at Bella as a source of weddings to fill up their calendar, then okay.  Look at the company, decide if you'd want to work for them, and then jump in.  (Personally, I wouldn't go near Bella.)  

But, if it's a ploy to get clients, then why not develop a good, ethical, respectable, marketing plan - the way any other business would.  It's never necessary to act in poor faith in order to build your business.  

We have a successful studio.  The result of a lot of planning, researching, working, etc.  I don't even allow staff photogs to hand out our business cards to wedding guests - a wedding isn't a place to stalk new clients.  It's the time to completely focus on the one you have.

I sincerely apologize if I was overly harsh.  Wedding photogs don't have the greatest reputation among the public...  So, I tend to have a guttural reaction to questionable business practices.


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## Rhys (May 21, 2008)

I have done a lot of work in Eastern Europe where it's common for staff sent to meetings with other companies to job-hunt while they're there. Out there, people stab each other in the back on a daily basis in the hope of getting further in the rat race.


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## hedonia (May 23, 2008)

From what I've heard of Bella, they don't have a non-compete. That's sort of their schtick. 
From their website: "
*How We Work*

  		Bella's non-competitive, non-exclusive relationship gives you the scheduling and creative freedom you need to practice your craft without creative limitations. With Bella, you can continue to build your portfolio, improve your skills and earn steady income without having to worry about anything besides being a great photographer."



If you have room in your schedule that you need to fill, or need more for your portfolio, and you're aware of their practices that other photographers find offensive (not sure what those are-- people haven't been specific but I've heard hundreds of generalized complaints), then sure, go for it.


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## Rhys (May 23, 2008)

Sounds good for filling in gaps.


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## Antithesis (May 25, 2008)

Yeah, I just thinking advertising while your shooting for another company is highly unethical. Reputation is important in any business, and especially in photography. You screw that up, and your going to have to work very hard to bring it back up.


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## Meysha (May 25, 2008)

Everyone is critising before we've even seen the contract. If he's hired as a subcontractor then he's employed as his own business so it's fair enough if he advertises himself.

Despite that, rhys, I think you've got the idea of what people on here think of bella.


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## Rhys (May 26, 2008)

Quite honestly I don't see a problem with Bella. Any job is a good stepping stone.


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## Senor Hound (May 26, 2008)

*Mike* said:


> Umm... Shooting a wedding for one company, while handing out business cards for your own company, sounds a little tacky... Don't ya think?



Those with too high morals in the business world do not succeed as quickly or as effectively as those who are able to compromise their integrity occasionally. I've seen numerous people run their own business, and the ones who do the best are the ones who plug themselves effectively, and don't become too loyal to one idea or person.

You can try turning the tables.  Lets say you worked for Bella, handed out their card, and then quit.  And then someone calls up and specifically requests you.  Do you think they're going to give them your number?  Its a dog-eat-dog world out there.

To the OP:  There's nothing wrong with handing out your own personal cards at an event.  You might get fired from Bella, though, if they find out.  But if that doesn't matter to you, so be it.  Do be subtle about it, though.  Just tell the people there that you forgot your Bella cards, but that these are your personal ones and they will work just as well.


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## *Mike* (May 27, 2008)

Senor Hound said:


> Those with too high morals in the business world do not succeed as quickly or as effectively as those who are able to compromise their integrity occasionally...
> 
> ... Do be subtle about it, though.  Just tell the people there that you forgot your Bella cards, but that these are your personal ones and they will work just as well.



This is too much.  LOL.  You're recommending building a business on a foundation of lies and unethical behavior???  Really?

Yeah, you can make some money if you're willing to get a little slimey at times.  But, it's not necessary.  It's damaging in the long run to your business.  And, it's damaging in the long run to the industry.

Bella, has taken a lot of flack in the past year, from both brides and photogs, for some unethical behavior.  Yeah, they made some money from it.  But, they're still doing damage control today.

For example... Bella was following up with brides who didn't book.  They inquired as to why, and who they went with...  Then, they told the bride that the photog they did book is actually a Bella shooter - and that they could have saved a lot of money by going through Bella instead of booking directly...  

In reality, Bella doesn't offer the same processing or products.  The photogs offer very different services to brides through their studios than Bella does.  But, the photogs still ended up with angry brides who felt like they were overcharged and taken advantage of by the studio.

That's one example of something that happened fairly frequently, and that caused an uproar throughout the industry.  (Bella has claimed it was overzealous sales people and not company policy.)

Brides have their own grievances with Bella.

Regardless, I'm sticking to the opinion that it's inappropriate, wrong, and shortsighted to embrace unethical practices.  Such as poaching clients at another studios event.

It would be nice to see more photogs earnestly pursuing new, creative, legitimate avenues of marketing and business building.


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## Rhys (May 27, 2008)

What makes you think business is the high moral ground? It's dog-eat-dog out there!


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## *Mike* (May 27, 2008)

Dog eat dog is a dangerous game...  Often, unethical practices will result in a short term gain, but come back to bite you later.

At the risk of, again, being labeled judgmental... my observation is that the most cut-throat, win at all costs, photographers are often the least adept at business.  There's a certain balance, as inadequate business skills are balanced (or are tried to be balanced) with grim determination.

I own two businesses.  A successful photography studio, and a couture bridal boutique.  I'm not just being combative, there's experience behind the opinions...

Bella has had a run of unethical tactics and is still suffering the stigma.  Thing is, they can brunt it a lot better than the little guy since they have lot more standing behind them.


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## Rhys (May 27, 2008)

If clients want to pay $300 for 2 hours coverage and a CD/DVD then who am I to turn business away? If they want to pay $1000 for 6 hours coverage and a CD/DVD what's the problem?


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## *Mike* (May 27, 2008)

I don't understand the question...  Maybe it's just been too long a day for me.  )

Value and price your work however you want.  That would be another thread entirely if you'd like to discuss it...  In most forums it's been pretty beaten to death.

My point, throughout this thread has been:  1) Bella is not a company I would recommend.  They betrayed a number of photogs that shot for them.  Oh, and many brides have also been left unhappy with Bella.  I don't want to be associated with that negative stigma in brides eyes.  And, 2) unethical business practices are unnecessary and detrimental to both the photog employing them and the industry as a whole.

Good luck with whatever your decision... Be sure to fill us in on what you decide and how it goes.  )


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## Lacey Anne (May 27, 2008)

Listen to Mike. I've tried to stay out of this but come on. The only way to get business is to be unethical? You have no idea how to run a business if that's your stance. In the long run, treating people fairly and being ethical will give you a solid business base and happy, repeat customers who will recommend you to others.


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## Rhys (May 27, 2008)

Lacey Anne said:


> Listen to Mike. I've tried to stay out of this but come on. The only way to get business is to be unethical? You have no idea how to run a business if that's your stance. In the long run, treating people fairly and being ethical will give you a solid business base and happy, repeat customers who will recommend you to others.



I have no problem giving the customer high-quality images. The images are what sells a business - those and the price. "I got a good deal from Joe Bloggs and an excellent product" goes a long way.


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