# Madison Rowley, World Beard and Mustache Championship Winner



## DanOstergren

Yesterday I got to photograph Madison Rowley, who won the 2014 World Beard and Mustache Championship. I really enjoyed doing this shoot, and it's probably my favorite shoot to date. 
*You may not edit my photos.*

Natural light.
EOS 5D MKI
135mm @ f/2 
1/100th sec
ISO 500


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## weepete

You've excelled yourself in this one Dan, cracking shot. The simplicity of it teally focuses your attention on the subject and it's so well lit with the midtones on the chair just peeking through gives this shot real depth.


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## JimMcClain

Handsome guy, very nice lighting. His hand positioning seems a bit awkward though.

Jim


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## DanOstergren

weepete said:


> You've excelled yourself in this one Dan, cracking shot. The simplicity of it teally focuses your attention on the subject and it's so well lit with the midtones on the chair just peeking through gives this shot real depth.


Thank you! 


JimMcClain said:


> Handsome guy, very nice lighting. His hand positioning seems a bit awkward though.
> 
> Jim


Thanks for the feedback.


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## qleak

Very Nice Dan!

If you want a nitpick, the elbow is just slightly cut off. Looking closer you may have only cut off some of his arm hair. I don't think it really detracts from the image in this case 

I like the OOF frame he's leaning into. 

The light, posing and expression  in this are spectacular! Thanks for sharing


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## binga63

Great image


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## jenko

Whattabeard! Love it.


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## Braineack

This appears underexposed to me.  The skin that should be the most brillant looks dull and gray.


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## runnah

Jesus, did he start growing that while in the womb?!

I like the photo, feels slightly "off" but I can't put my finger on it. If I had to guess I think it's that the hand is slightly brighter than the face so it kind of draws my attention away.

Either way better than I could do so bravo.


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## Designer

runnah said:


> I like the photo, feels slightly "off" but I can't put my finger on it.


It's the WB and exposure combined.


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## Gary A.

He has more hair on his arm than I do on my entire body. Technically, WB and exposure seems a smidgen off, but it still works for me.


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## runnah

Designer said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> I like the photo, feels slightly "off" but I can't put my finger on it.
> 
> 
> 
> It's the WB and exposure combined.
Click to expand...


Nah, WB and exposure are fully into the "artist interpretation" catagory for me. So those things are not I "worry" about.


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## Designer

runnah said:


> Designer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> runnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> I like the photo, feels slightly "off" but I can't put my finger on it.
> 
> 
> 
> It's the WB and exposure combined.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nah, WB and exposure are fully into the "artist interpretation" catagory for me. So those things are not I "worry" about.
Click to expand...

So the photograph looking "slightly off" is merely the artist's interpretation?  Why would he do that? Does the artist mean to imply something is "slightly off"?


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## DanOstergren

I'm not even going to attempt to give any reasoning for the WB or exposure. I did edit it to get the color tones and exposure that way, could you ever forgive me?


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## DanOstergren

runnah said:


> Designer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> runnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> I like the photo, feels slightly "off" but I can't put my finger on it.
> 
> 
> 
> It's the WB and exposure combined.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nah, WB and exposure are fully into the "artist interpretation" catagory for me. So those things are not I "worry" about.
Click to expand...

Careful, thems be fightin words around here.  
"Artistic interpretation" doesn't exist on TPF.


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## DanOstergren

For anyone interested, here is a "before/ after".


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## runnah

DanOstergren said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Designer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> runnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> I like the photo, feels slightly "off" but I can't put my finger on it.
> 
> 
> 
> It's the WB and exposure combined.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nah, WB and exposure are fully into the "artist interpretation" catagory for me. So those things are not I "worry" about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Careful, thems be fightin words around here.
> "Artistic interpretation" doesn't exist on TPF.
Click to expand...


I've noticed that. Seems like if a photos doesn't tick all the technical boxes it's looked down upon.


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## tirediron

I definitely prefer the tones in the upper/before image.


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## DanOstergren

qleak said:


> Very Nice Dan!
> 
> If you want a nitpick, the elbow is just slightly cut off. Looking closer you may have only cut off some of his arm hair. I don't think it really detracts from the image in this case
> 
> I like the OOF frame he's leaning into.
> 
> The light, posing and expression  in this are spectacular! Thanks for sharing


Thank you.


binga63 said:


> Great image


Thanks man.


jenko said:


> Whattabeard! Love it.


Right? I got to touch it, it was awesome.


Braineack said:


> This appears underexposed to me.  The skin that should be the most brillant looks dull and gray.


Thanks for the feedback.


runnah said:


> Jesus, did he start growing that while in the womb?!
> 
> I like the photo, feels slightly "off" but I can't put my finger on it. If I had to guess I think it's that the hand is slightly brighter than the face so it kind of draws my attention away.
> 
> Either way better than I could do so bravo.


I had the same feeling, but I wasn't bothered enough by it to do anything about it; that's just the nature of the lighting.


Gary A. said:


> He has more hair on his arm than I do on my entire body. Technically, WB and exposure seems a smidgen off, but it still works for me.


Thank you. I think his arm hair is sexy.


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## DanOstergren

tirediron said:


> I definitely prefer the tones in the upper/before image.


I actually can't stand them, hence why I changed them to something I like.


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## photoguy99

This isn't a judgement on your ideas for post. I think you have a clear and consistent vision, and I don't see any problem with it.

I do find it _interesting_ (and that is NOT a euphemism for _incomprehensibly dumb_ or anything like that, it means _interesting_ in this context) that you shoot natural light, and then post process to remove much of the quality of natural light, cooling the colors and increasing the contrast. If you had any commentary on that, I'd be charmed to hear it, but I'm not asking for an explanation or a justification. See the first line of this post.


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## DanOstergren

runnah said:


> DanOstergren said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> runnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Designer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> runnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> I like the photo, feels slightly "off" but I can't put my finger on it.
> 
> 
> 
> It's the WB and exposure combined.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nah, WB and exposure are fully into the "artist interpretation" catagory for me. So those things are not I "worry" about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Careful, thems be fightin words around here.
> "Artistic interpretation" doesn't exist on TPF.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've noticed that. Seems like if a photos doesn't tick all the technical boxes it's looked down upon.
Click to expand...

I've noticed it here too. I'm not all that surprised though.


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## DanOstergren

photoguy99 said:


> This isn't a judgement on your ideas for post. I think you have a clear and consistent vision, and I don't see any problem with it.
> 
> I do find it _interesting_ (and that is NOT a euphemism for _incomprehensibly dumb_ or anything like that, it means _interesting_ in this context) that you shoot natural light, and then post process to remove much of the quality of natural light, cooling the colors and increasing the contrast. If you had any commentary on that, I'd be charmed to hear it, but I'm not asking for an explanation or a justification. See the first line of this post.


I edit my images simply to match my personal esthetic. Nothing more to it really.


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## tirediron

DanOstergren said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> 
> I definitely prefer the tones in the upper/before image.
> 
> 
> 
> I actually can't stand them, hence why I changed them to something I like.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, and is your right as the photographer.  Again, this is only curiosity, not condemnation, but what is it about them that you don't like?  On my calibrated monitor the original tones seem much more natural and he has what I would think of as a healthy appearance.  In your processed version, he seems slightly gray, almost as if someone had delivered very bad news to him.


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## DanOstergren

tirediron said:


> DanOstergren said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> 
> I definitely prefer the tones in the upper/before image.
> 
> 
> 
> I actually can't stand them, hence why I changed them to something I like.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fair enough, and is your right as the photographer.  Again, this is only curiosity, not condemnation, but what is it about them that you don't like?  On my calibrated monitor the original tones seem much more natural and he has what I would think of as a healthy appearance.  In your processed version, he seems slightly gray, almost as if someone had delivered very bad news to him.
Click to expand...

It's simply to match an esthetic that looks good to me. Nothing more.


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## funwitha7d

wow, superb


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## DanOstergren

funwitha7d said:


> wow, superb


Thank you.


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## Braineack

the before is stellar.  too bad you're one of those zombie artists.


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## Designer

DanOstergren said:


> It's simply to match an esthetic that looks good to me. Nothing more.


Is your monitor calibrated?


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## Designer

DanOstergren said:


> "Artistic interpretation" doesn't exist on TPF.



I disagree.  The fact that we don't see a lot of it here doesn't mean it is not presented occasionally.


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## DanOstergren

Designer said:


> DanOstergren said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's simply to match an esthetic that looks good to me. Nothing more.
> 
> 
> 
> Is your monitor calibrated?
Click to expand...

It is indeed.


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## DanOstergren

Braineack said:


> the before is stellar.  too bad you're one of those zombie artists.


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## DanOstergren

Designer said:


> DanOstergren said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Artistic interpretation" doesn't exist on TPF.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree.  The fact that we don't see a lot of it here doesn't mean it is not presented occasionally.
Click to expand...

I beg to differ. Very commonly I see people accused of all sorts of BS simply for having an artistic interpretation that others don't agree with. More so here than ANYWHERE I have ever shared my photographs.


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## C. Brian Kerr

Dan, I like it. In my opinion the arm positioning brings you right back to the focus of the image. The beard and mustache.  After my eye completed that "loop" I noticed the facial expression.  It's as if he is contemplating shaving!!  Great job


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## Braineack

DanOstergren said:


> Braineack said:
> 
> 
> 
> the before is stellar.  too bad you're one of those zombie artists.
Click to expand...


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## DanOstergren

Braineack said:


> DanOstergren said:
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> Braineack said:
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> 
> 
> the before is stellar.  too bad you're one of those zombie artists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


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## Braineack

now that's a party!


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## DanOstergren

C. Brian Kerr said:


> Dan, I like it. In my opinion the arm positioning brings you right back to the focus of the image. The beard and mustache.  After my eye completed that "loop" I noticed the facial expression.  It's as if he is contemplating shaving!!  Great job


 Thank you. 

That's hilarious, because we were chatting about the temptation of beard shaving and how hard that temptation can be to resist sometimes. Growing a beard like that takes a LOT of time and restraint. I've never been able to get close to where he is; maybe 1/4th of what he's got, and even that is a challenge for me. His took 2 years to grow.


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## runnah

DanOstergren said:


> C. Brian Kerr said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dan, I like it. In my opinion the arm positioning brings you right back to the focus of the image. The beard and mustache.  After my eye completed that "loop" I noticed the facial expression.  It's as if he is contemplating shaving!!  Great job
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> That's hilarious, because we were chatting about the temptation of beard shaving and how hard that temptation can be to resist sometimes. Growing a beard like that takes a LOT of time and restraint. I've never been able to get close to where he is; maybe 1/4th of what he's got, and even that is a challenge for me. His took 2 years to grow.
Click to expand...


I fight the urge every summer. Too damn hot and itchy.


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## rexbobcat

Designer said:


> DanOstergren said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Artistic interpretation" doesn't exist on TPF.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree.  The fact that we don't see a lot of it here doesn't mean it is not presented occasionally.
Click to expand...


Honestly, it's better here than it is other places, but there is still a rigidity that is annoying. 

It's better than Photocamel, however. On that forum, you'll be told to use the rule-of-thirds for the sake of the tired "rules," even when using that principle would throw the whole photo out of balance.


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## DanOstergren

rexbobcat said:


> Designer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DanOstergren said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Artistic interpretation" doesn't exist on TPF.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree.  The fact that we don't see a lot of it here doesn't mean it is not presented occasionally.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Honestly, it's better here than it is other places, but there is still a rigidity that is annoying.
> 
> It's better than Photocamel, however. On that forum, you'll be told to use the rule-of-thirds for the sake of the tired "rules," even when using that principle would throw the whole photo out of balance.
Click to expand...

They just want to make sure everyone's photos all look the same...


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## pixmedic

Have mercy.
Noone Is forcing anyone to participate here, and Noone will hold it against anyone that feels another forum is better suited for them.
I'm a mod on 3 photography forums, and this one, by far, has the best overall bunch of people.
There's a little something for everyone here.


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## DanOstergren

runnah said:


> DanOstergren said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> C. Brian Kerr said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dan, I like it. In my opinion the arm positioning brings you right back to the focus of the image. The beard and mustache.  After my eye completed that "loop" I noticed the facial expression.  It's as if he is contemplating shaving!!  Great job
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> That's hilarious, because we were chatting about the temptation of beard shaving and how hard that temptation can be to resist sometimes. Growing a beard like that takes a LOT of time and restraint. I've never been able to get close to where he is; maybe 1/4th of what he's got, and even that is a challenge for me. His took 2 years to grow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I fight the urge every summer. Too damn hot and itchy.
Click to expand...

Good thing I'll be back in Alaska this Summer, where beards are highly celebrated and respected. I plan on entering mine into Ketchikan's beard competition during the blueberry festival in August. I can't touch my beard for 5 months, and it's already pretty big.


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## DanOstergren

pixmedic said:


> Have mercy.
> Noone Is forcing anyone to participate here, and Noone will hold it against anyone that feels another forum is better suited for them.
> I'm a mod on 3 photography forums, and this one, by far, has the best overall bunch of people.
> There's a little something for everyone here.


No one said anyone is being forced. Others and I were pointing something out that is commonly seen here. No need to intervene, thanks.


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## pixmedic

DanOstergren said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have mercy.
> Noone Is forcing anyone to participate here, and Noone will hold it against anyone that feels another forum is better suited for them.
> I'm a mod on 3 photography forums, and this one, by far, has the best overall bunch of people.
> There's a little something for everyone here.
> 
> 
> 
> No one said anyone is being forced. Others and I were pointing something out that is commonly seen here. No need to intervene.
Click to expand...

I was just making sure.
I've noticed an awful lot of bitching about this place from random people lately and I just wanted everyone to know that they are not locked in here.


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## runnah

DanOstergren said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DanOstergren said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> C. Brian Kerr said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dan, I like it. In my opinion the arm positioning brings you right back to the focus of the image. The beard and mustache.  After my eye completed that "loop" I noticed the facial expression.  It's as if he is contemplating shaving!!  Great job
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> That's hilarious, because we were chatting about the temptation of beard shaving and how hard that temptation can be to resist sometimes. Growing a beard like that takes a LOT of time and restraint. I've never been able to get close to where he is; maybe 1/4th of what he's got, and even that is a challenge for me. His took 2 years to grow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I fight the urge every summer. Too damn hot and itchy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good thing I'll be back in Alaska this Summer, where beards are highly celebrated and respected. I plan on entering mine into Ketchikan's beard competition during the blueberry festival in August. I can't touch my beard for 5 months, and it's already pretty big.
Click to expand...


We had to cancel our contest because of last year's "fluffing" scandal.


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## DanOstergren

runnah said:


> DanOstergren said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> runnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DanOstergren said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> C. Brian Kerr said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dan, I like it. In my opinion the arm positioning brings you right back to the focus of the image. The beard and mustache.  After my eye completed that "loop" I noticed the facial expression.  It's as if he is contemplating shaving!!  Great job
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> That's hilarious, because we were chatting about the temptation of beard shaving and how hard that temptation can be to resist sometimes. Growing a beard like that takes a LOT of time and restraint. I've never been able to get close to where he is; maybe 1/4th of what he's got, and even that is a challenge for me. His took 2 years to grow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I fight the urge every summer. Too damn hot and itchy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good thing I'll be back in Alaska this Summer, where beards are highly celebrated and respected. I plan on entering mine into Ketchikan's beard competition during the blueberry festival in August. I can't touch my beard for 5 months, and it's already pretty big.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We had to cancel our contest because of last year's "fluffing" scandal.
Click to expand...

Ummmmmmm. This could be interpreted a couple of different ways, lmao.


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## DanOstergren

pixmedic said:


> DanOstergren said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have mercy.
> Noone Is forcing anyone to participate here, and Noone will hold it against anyone that feels another forum is better suited for them.
> I'm a mod on 3 photography forums, and this one, by far, has the best overall bunch of people.
> There's a little something for everyone here.
> 
> 
> 
> No one said anyone is being forced. Others and I were pointing something out that is commonly seen here. No need to intervene.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was just making sure.
> I've noticed an awful lot of bitching about this place from random people lately and I just wanted everyone to know that they are not locked in here.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the concern. I've noticed an awful lot of other bitchy things too, so I understand your frustrations.


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## pixmedic

DanOstergren said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DanOstergren said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have mercy.
> Noone Is forcing anyone to participate here, and Noone will hold it against anyone that feels another forum is better suited for them.
> I'm a mod on 3 photography forums, and this one, by far, has the best overall bunch of people.
> There's a little something for everyone here.
> 
> 
> 
> No one said anyone is being forced. Others and I were pointing something out that is commonly seen here. No need to intervene.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was just making sure.
> I've noticed an awful lot of bitching about this place from random people lately and I just wanted everyone to know that they are not locked in here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for the concern. I've noticed an awful lot of other bitchy things too, so I understand your frustrations.
Click to expand...

Glad we're on the same page brother.


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## rexbobcat

pixmedic said:


> DanOstergren said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have mercy.
> Noone Is forcing anyone to participate here, and Noone will hold it against anyone that feels another forum is better suited for them.
> I'm a mod on 3 photography forums, and this one, by far, has the best overall bunch of people.
> There's a little something for everyone here.
> 
> 
> 
> No one said anyone is being forced. Others and I were pointing something out that is commonly seen here. No need to intervene.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was just making sure.
> I've noticed an awful lot of bitching about this place from random people lately and I just wanted everyone to know that they are not locked in here.
Click to expand...


You'd like to think that wouldn't you.

What about those of us with internet forum Stockholm Syndrome?


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## pixmedic

rexbobcat said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DanOstergren said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have mercy.
> Noone Is forcing anyone to participate here, and Noone will hold it against anyone that feels another forum is better suited for them.
> I'm a mod on 3 photography forums, and this one, by far, has the best overall bunch of people.
> There's a little something for everyone here.
> 
> 
> 
> No one said anyone is being forced. Others and I were pointing something out that is commonly seen here. No need to intervene.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was just making sure.
> I've noticed an awful lot of bitching about this place from random people lately and I just wanted everyone to know that they are not locked in here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You'd like to think that wouldn't you.
> 
> What about those of us with internet forum Stockholm Syndrome?
Click to expand...

TPF is like the company I work for. Lots of people leave, but they ALWAYS come back! The power of TPF compels  you!


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## Msteelio91

Well this thread was a rollercoaster 

Great shot!! Personally, I'm a fan of how the edited tones seem to bring out the grays in his beard as well as add a nice sheen and move some of the emphasis to it as a result.


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## DanOstergren

Msteelio91 said:


> Well this thread was a rollercoaster
> 
> Great shot!! Personally, I'm a fan of how the edited tones seem to bring out the grays in his beard as well as add a nice sheen and move some of the emphasis to it as a result.


Thank you.


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## FITBMX

Looks great, and I love your editing work!


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## FITBMX

POTM!!!!

March 2015 POTM Nomination Thread Page 2 Photography Forum


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## luckychucky

The beard was the subject; great beard 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## DanOstergren

luckychucky said:


> The beard was the subject; great beard
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Thank you. I actually tried to make it so the beard was a main focal point, but didn't want it to overshadow the model completely.


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## DanOstergren

FITBMX said:


> Looks great, and I love your editing work!





FITBMX said:


> POTM!!!!
> 
> March 2015 POTM Nomination Thread Page 2 Photography Forum


Awesome, thank you!


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## Overread

I have nothing to say about exposure or white balance art nor anything else

I'm just jealous of the beard!


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## TreeofLifeStairs

I think it looks great. My first thought washe took so much time and effort making his beard look good, he should have run a comb through that arm hair to get it all going in the same direction.


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## runnah

DanOstergren said:


> luckychucky said:
> 
> 
> 
> The beard was the subject; great beard
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you. I actually tried to make it so the beard was a main focal point, but didn't want it to overshadow the model completely.
Click to expand...


Did he keep having to say "my eyes are up here!".


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## Ysarex

I had soup for dinner.

Joe


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## DanOstergren

runnah said:


> DanOstergren said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> luckychucky said:
> 
> 
> 
> The beard was the subject; great beard
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you. I actually tried to make it so the beard was a main focal point, but didn't want it to overshadow the model completely.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did he keep having to say "my eyes are up here!".
Click to expand...

He was probably thinking it.


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## DanOstergren

Ysarex said:


> I had soup for dinner.
> 
> Joe


That's lovely.


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## W.Y.Photo

Someone mentioned the hand looking too posed earlier and I'm going to go ahead and disagree.. If i think about it really hard I can tell it was somewhat positioned for the image but I think for what it is it looks very natural.

On the topic of the hand, I love that two fingers point to his head and two point to is beard, as if to show the viewer exactly what to look at. The rings, being on the fingers that point to the beard seem to act as symbols of his champion status as a beardsman.

I think this image is amazing. Good job Dan!!




Braineack said:


> the before is stellar.  too bad you're one of those zombie artists.



I disagree. Obviously the before is a good image, I have no qualms with it, but I think that the aesthetic quality's of Dan's editing creates a visual style for his portraits that is all his own. If anything he's being less of a zombie by ignoring the idea that images should retain their "as shot" look in favor of a styalized look that is probably exactly what his clients are looking for. He didn't catch the attention of this particularly famous individual by doing what everyone else does, and that's a fact.

IMHO A good question for people to ask themselves if they want to give a productive and helpful critique on post processing is: Would you hate on this look if it were shot using film that produced the same results? Because, in the days of color film photography there were plenty of films that had unnatural color casts and people would use them to produce effects similar to the way photographers use post processing today. All photographers Adhering to a specific, perfect-color, SOOC regiment would be like everyone using only one type of film.

I recognize that the plague of over-photoshopped bullcrap images makes people who care a lot about photography prefer a very natural look, but going too far with that mentality can stifle creativity and hurt photography in a much bigger way than noobs with heavy hands can.


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## Austin Greene

This is really great. The window frame doesn't cut off his elbow, it _frames_ him and sets up the whole shot. I'm glad you kept part of the chair in the frame. 

Something to aspire to, for the rest of us, I mean.


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## Braineack

W.Y.Photo said:


> Braineack said:
> 
> 
> 
> the before is stellar.  too bad you're one of those zombie artists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree. Obviously the before is a good image, I have no qualms with it, but I think that the aesthetic quality's of Dan's editing creates a visual style for his portraits that is all his own. If anything he's being less of a zombie by ignoring the idea that images should retain their "as shot" look in favor of a styalized look that is probably exactly what his clients are looking for. He didn't catch the attention of this particularly famous individual by doing what everyone else does, and that's a fact.
Click to expand...


Just like when every goth kid you see wearing black is being different right?

The dude looks like a zombie--sorry--but he does.   the loss of skin detail and the color looks *bad*.  It makes him look dead. It makes it look like the artist was on autopilot.  It seriosuly detracts from the image.

There's still PLENTY of style in the first shot.  I see no "style" added from the edit all i see is someone that was editing on a monitor that was too bright.

I know of Dan's style, and this edit is not doing it justice whatsoever. It's easy to spot of his shots. This image is one of his best shots I've seen to-date, but probably the worst artist-flare-for-the-sake-of-adding-artist-flare I've ever seen added to-date as well.


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## W.Y.Photo

Braineack said:


> W.Y.Photo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Braineack said:
> 
> 
> 
> the before is stellar.  too bad you're one of those zombie artists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree. Obviously the before is a good image, I have no qualms with it, but I think that the aesthetic quality's of Dan's editing creates a visual style for his portraits that is all his own. If anything he's being less of a zombie by ignoring the idea that images should retain their "as shot" look in favor of a styalized look that is probably exactly what his clients are looking for. He didn't catch the attention of this particularly famous individual by doing what everyone else does, and that's a fact.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just like when every goth kid you see wearing black is being different right?
> 
> The dude looks like a zombie--sorry--but he does.   the loss of skin detail and the color looks *bad*.  It makes him look dead. It makes it look like the artist was on autopilot.  It seriosuly detracts from the image.
> 
> There's still PLENTY of style in the first shot.  I see no "style" added from the edit all i see is someone that was editing on a monitor that was too bright.
> 
> I know of Dan's style, and this edit is not doing it justice whatsoever. It's easy to spot of his shots. This image is one of his best shots I've seen to-date, but probably the worst artist-flare-for-the-sake-of-adding-artist-flare I've ever seen added to-date as well.
Click to expand...


No. More like how every adult has a personal style that fits their personality and that they've developed over time. It doesn't necessarily have to be different but it should be the way that they want it to be, not the way other people think they should dress. Otherwise its no longer "Personal" and more of a "collective" style, which in most situations doesn't make a lot of sense.

While I agree that the original version is full of style I think it's a style that doesn't fit as well in Dan's complete body of portrait work. However I feel his edited image does, and for that reason I think he made the right choice in processing it in that manner.

Looking at it outside of the context of the rest of his work however.. I see how you could prefer the original. As a completely stand alone image it really is hard to decide which version is better. Of course with all aesthetic matters its all subjective anyways.


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## Braineack

dan's work usually doesn't look bad.  this edit looks bad.  therefore it doesn't fit into the body of his work.

this is totally subjective.  But if applying an ugly color overlay makes or breaks one work for the sole/soul purpose of artist flare, then that's kinda sad.


I also wanted to clarify: when i said zombie artist, I wasn't saying he was being a lemming/sheep.  I was saying he was turning humans into zombies.


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## W.Y.Photo

Meh. To each his own I guess. It is a tid-bit too dark, but I really like the desaturation.


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## DanOstergren

Braineack said:


> W.Y.Photo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Braineack said:
> 
> 
> 
> the before is stellar.  too bad you're one of those zombie artists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree. Obviously the before is a good image, I have no qualms with it, but I think that the aesthetic quality's of Dan's editing creates a visual style for his portraits that is all his own. If anything he's being less of a zombie by ignoring the idea that images should retain their "as shot" look in favor of a styalized look that is probably exactly what his clients are looking for. He didn't catch the attention of this particularly famous individual by doing what everyone else does, and that's a fact.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just like when every goth kid you see wearing black is being different right?
> 
> The dude looks like a zombie--sorry--but he does.   the loss of skin detail and the color looks *bad*.  It makes him look dead. It makes it look like the artist was on autopilot.  It seriosuly detracts from the image.
> 
> There's still PLENTY of style in the first shot.  I see no "style" added from the edit all i see is someone that was editing on a monitor that was too bright.
> 
> I know of Dan's style, and this edit is not doing it justice whatsoever. It's easy to spot of his shots. This image is one of his best shots I've seen to-date, but probably the worst artist-flare-for-the-sake-of-adding-artist-flare I've ever seen added to-date as well.
Click to expand...

My only issue with what you have to say is that you present your opinions as facts. I wasn't on auto-pilot, nor did I add "artist-flare-for-the-sake-of-adding-artist-flare" to this image. I had a clear vision in mind from the beginning and went with it.

Otherwise, thanks for the feedback, but I don't think it looks bad at all and I'm sticking with my original edit despite you saying it looks *bad*. Anyone may feel free to call me arrogant because of my refusal to acknowledge your critique as useful to me, but I couldn't give a rat's ass if you think so. Have a nice day.


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## Forkie

Braineack said:


> dan's work usually doesn't look bad.  this edit looks bad.  therefore it doesn't fit into the body of his work.
> 
> this is totally subjective.  But if applying an ugly color overlay makes or breaks one work for the sole/soul purpose of artist flare, then that's kinda sad.
> 
> 
> I also wanted to clarify: when i said zombie artist, I wasn't saying he was being a lemming/sheep.  I was saying he was turning humans into zombies.




The problem I have with your posts like this (and I see it often in your critiques) is that you state what you don't like and insist that because it is not to your taste that that makes it wrong, or technically incorrect or that the photographer has dropped the ball and then appear to lament when they don't take your "advice" as absolute.

What is correct exposure anyway?  What is correct white balance?  That the image should look the way it looked with your eyes?  If that's the case, there would be no such thing as creative photography.  The _correct_ WB or exposure is not necessarily the _right_ WB or exposure.

The WB and exposures of this, this and this are not "correct", either.  But they are _right_, and clearly what the artist intended.

Always assume that a finished image is as the artist intended.  Ask questions about why the artist made a particular choice if it's not to your particular taste, but don't be so arrogant to assert that what they did or why is _wrong_.


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## petrochemist

DanOstergren said:


> Designer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DanOstergren said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Artistic interpretation" doesn't exist on TPF.
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree.  The fact that we don't see a lot of it here doesn't mean it is not presented occasionally.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I beg to differ. Very commonly I see people accused of all sorts of BS simply for having an artistic interpretation that others don't agree with. More so here than ANYWHERE I have ever shared my photographs.
Click to expand...

 
The fact that some don't agree with artistic interpretation doesn't mean its never presented.  Designer didn't it was frequent nor did he claim it would get nothing but praise either.


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## Braineack

DanOstergren said:


> My only issue with what you have to say is that you present your opinions as facts. I wasn't on auto-pilot, nor did I add "artist-flare-for-the-sake-of-adding-artist-flare" to this image. I had a clear vision in mind from the beginning and went with it.
> 
> Otherwise, thanks for the feedback, but I don't think it looks bad at all and I'm sticking with my original edit despite you saying it looks *bad*. Anyone may feel free to call me arrogant because of my refusal to acknowledge your critique as useful to me, but I couldn't give a rat's ass if you think so. Have a nice day.



I think I wrote somewhere that it was subjective.

It is my opinion that the color edit detracts, adds/conveys nothing, and doesn't match your style.

I think it's a gorgeous capture, and I generally like your edits and the mood you add--but not here.  Typically when I see your before/after, I don't ever dislike the after and generally like the mood/feel you're able to emote. In this case I really dislike the after--the color overlay you added makes his skin look bad.  It looks dull and dead--hence my zombie comment.  I never said you were on auto-pilot or press pre-sets and export, but it felt a little that way to me.  It wasn't as successful as your previous work I've seen in those regards.

I think my first comment here, and first thought, was that it looked odd.  You have a guy sitting in front of a bright window, yet his skin looks flat and dimmed.  It looks intentionally underexposed in post and not in camera. If you were trying to convey a dark/dreary overcast sky then I don't think you achieved it.

Whatever you were going for, all the power to you. I suggest everyone take what I say with a grain of salt. To me this image is a miss and I was simply expressing what I disliked about it. You can take from it what you want--my critique is equally as unuseful as it is useful.

I'm a big fan of your work--how many of your images have I nominated for Photo of the Month here?  At least 4-5.

never forget: i defended the girl's reflection.


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## Braineack

Forkie said:


> The problem I have with your posts like this (and I see it often in your critiques) is that you state what you don't like and insist that because it is not to your taste that that makes it wrong, or technically incorrect or that the photographer has dropped the ball and then appear to lament when they don't take your "advice" as absolute.



I'm not the artist, so I can only tell you my experience.



> Always assume that a finished image is as the artist intended.



I can't make it that easy for the artist.

I'm not entirely sure the artist intended this guys skin to have a zombie-like appearance.

I put it out there for the artist to consider and that's all it is.  You're not going to convince me that the guy's skin doesn't look bad to me and I may not convince Dan that it should be reworked, but at least it's something for him to consider.

I also try to inject a lot of humor in my posts, just trying to have fun with it, not trying to be poloarizing.


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## W.Y.Photo

Braineack said:


> DanOstergren said:
> 
> 
> 
> My only issue with what you have to say is that you present your opinions as facts. I wasn't on auto-pilot, nor did I add "artist-flare-for-the-sake-of-adding-artist-flare" to this image. I had a clear vision in mind from the beginning and went with it.
> 
> Otherwise, thanks for the feedback, but I don't think it looks bad at all and I'm sticking with my original edit despite you saying it looks *bad*. Anyone may feel free to call me arrogant because of my refusal to acknowledge your critique as useful to me, but I couldn't give a rat's ass if you think so. Have a nice day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> never forget: i defended the girl's reflection.
Click to expand...


The Girls reflection was dope.


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## DanOstergren

Braineack said:


> Forkie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem I have with your posts like this (and I see it often in your critiques) is that you state what you don't like and insist that because it is not to your taste that that makes it wrong, or technically incorrect or that the photographer has dropped the ball and then appear to lament when they don't take your "advice" as absolute.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not the artist, so I can only tell you my experience.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Always assume that a finished image is as the artist intended.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can't make it that easy for the artist.
> 
> I'm not entirely sure the artist intended this guys skin to have a zombie-like appearance.
> 
> I put it out there for the artist to consider and that's all it is.  You're not going to convince me that the guy's skin doesn't look bad to me and I may not convince Dan that it should be reworked, but at least it's something for him to consider.
> 
> I also try to inject a lot of humor in my posts, just trying to have fun with it, not trying to be poloarizing.
Click to expand...

To me it doesn't look dead or zombie like at all. Now you know for sure that it wasn't my intention, and I still don't feel that it looks that way. 

And yes, my display is calibrated and is not set to a high brightness level.


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## runnah

This is still going on?

I swear some folks on here would tell me how to take my coffee.


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## pixmedic

runnah said:


> This is still going on?
> 
> I swear some folks on here would tell me how to take my coffee.


Black? In a big cup?


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## Braineack

I have to admit, his skin looks much better here at home.  But it still looks orange and delicious in the before.


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## snowbear

runnah said:


> This is still going on?
> 
> I swear some folks on here would tell me how to take my coffee.


Sweetened with single malt?


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## DanOstergren

runnah said:


> This is still going on?
> 
> I swear some folks on here would tell me how to take my coffee.


Seriously.


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## DanOstergren

Here's a clean edit to appease those of you who don't like my "artistic for the sake of being artistic" style of editing.  And to be clear, I did NOT edit it this way just to make anyone else happy. This is how I felt the image would be best suited to MY liking. I don't care if you feel that the first image needs to be edited this way as well.
Captured in all natural light.


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## DanOstergren

Braineack said:


> I have to admit, his skin looks much better here at home.  But it still looks orange and delicious in the before.


Orange is usually a tone that I try to avoid having in my photos, especially in highly saturated amounts. It just doesn't look good to me.


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## Bitter Jeweler

I could never deal with a moustache that long. I tried. Couldn't handle it. (See what I did there?) food gets all over it, or you get a fork full of stache. Not fun.


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## W.Y.Photo

DanOstergren said:


> Here's a clean edit to appease those of you who don't like my "artistic for the sake of being artistic" style of editing.  And to be clear, I did NOT edit it this way just to make anyone else happy. This is how I felt the image would be best suited to MY liking. I don't care if you feel that the first image needs to be edited this way as well.
> Captured in all natural light.



That's Brilliant.


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## Braineack

DanOstergren said:


> Here's a clean edit to appease those of you who don't like my "artistic for the sake of being artistic" style of editing.  And to be clear, I did NOT edit it this way just to make anyone else happy. This is how I felt the image would be best suited to MY liking. I don't care if you feel that the first image needs to be edited this way as well.



While I do like this shot, to be clear: I only suggested that first shot here _appeared_ that way to me, that it didn't convey the same level of mood through your color edits that the rest of your work does or that it wasn't as deliberate.  In other words, as a viewer/fan I didn't feel like the color edits were quite up to Dan Ostergren level of standards.


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## bribrius

Braineack said:


> DanOstergren said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a clean edit to appease those of you who don't like my "artistic for the sake of being artistic" style of editing.  And to be clear, I did NOT edit it this way just to make anyone else happy. This is how I felt the image would be best suited to MY liking. I don't care if you feel that the first image needs to be edited this way as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I do like this shot, to be clear: I only suggested that first shot here _appeared_ that way to me, that it didn't convey the same level of mood through your color edits that the rest of your work does or that it wasn't as deliberate.  In other words, as a viewer/fan I didn't feel like the color edits were quite up to Dan Ostergren level of standards.
Click to expand...

meh, the pale thing went better and more unnoticed with Goth girl. On here it was too apparent. The question of using natural light by photoguy then editing it out i found interesting as well.
To each their own. Stylistic choice, perhaps. Favorable to every viewer. No. Those more discerning pick up on it too quick. But if his audience liked it, and he wants to do it. who cares? He definately has some talent and has turned out some good work on here. Wouldn't say i am a fan. This isn't my type of thing. But he has some talent.


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## DanOstergren

Braineack said:


> DanOstergren said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a clean edit to appease those of you who don't like my "artistic for the sake of being artistic" style of editing.  And to be clear, I did NOT edit it this way just to make anyone else happy. This is how I felt the image would be best suited to MY liking. I don't care if you feel that the first image needs to be edited this way as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I do like this shot, to be clear: I only suggested that first shot here _appeared_ that way to me, that it didn't convey the same level of mood through your color edits that the rest of your work does or that it wasn't as deliberate.  In other words, as a viewer/fan I didn't feel like the color edits were quite up to Dan Ostergren level of standards.
Click to expand...

I appreciate it.


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## DanOstergren

Bitter Jeweler said:


> View attachment 98054
> 
> I could never deal with a moustache that long. I tried. Couldn't handle it. (See what I did there?) food gets all over it, or you get a fork full of stache. Not fun.


Yeah, I don't think I could ever handle it being that long either. Biting your own mustache HURTS.


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## DanOstergren

W.Y.Photo said:


> DanOstergren said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a clean edit to appease those of you who don't like my "artistic for the sake of being artistic" style of editing.  And to be clear, I did NOT edit it this way just to make anyone else happy. This is how I felt the image would be best suited to MY liking. I don't care if you feel that the first image needs to be edited this way as well.
> Captured in all natural light.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's Brilliant.
Click to expand...

Thank you.


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## TomBrooklyn

Nice pose.    

Nice chiaroscuro look.    

I would have liked to see the outline of his beard and his right arm on the camera right side, his chest shown; and his right elbow fully included in the frame.   I would also have liked to see a a little more skin detail on the forehead,  nose, and shoulder, or perhaps less smoothing there.


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## Austin Greene

TomBrooklyn said:


> Nice pose.
> 
> Nice chiaroscuro look.
> 
> I would have liked to see the outline of his beard and his right arm on the camera right side, his chest shown; and his right elbow fully included in the frame.   I would also have liked to see a a little more skin detail on the forehead,  nose, and shoulder, or perhaps less smoothing there.


----------

