# 10 Reasons Why Professional Photographers Charge What They Do!



## mindundalk (Jan 18, 2010)

Hi Everyone,

As a professional photographer for 6 years now sometimes you get haggled especially now that were in recession so i've put together 10 reasons why professional photographers charge what we do!

Lifestyle Photography Blog - Commercial, Fashion, Wedding and Studio Photography in Dundalk, Co. Louth

Hope this helps


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## robertwsimpson (Jan 18, 2010)

Just FYI, the only ones that your customers will care about in the least are 7, part of 6, and sometimes 4.  The rest are expected, generic, or simply your responsibility.  I work at a car dealership, and if I explain that the invoice that you can find on the internet is only a small part of what we have to pay to sell a car (we also have to pay floor plan interest, pay to detail the car, pay the salesman, pay the staff, etc etc), the customer doesn't care.  He simply wants what he sees as HIS benefit for the least amount of money possible.  The same goes in ANY competitive business.  People haggle because they don't see the benefit to themselves as justifying the cost.  If you want to preclude that, you either lower the price or increase the benefit.


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## NateWagner (Jan 18, 2010)

Well, there are other reasons as well, but as you said Robert, customers don't care about them. 

One of these reasons, is that taxes immediately take up about 1/3 to 1/4 of what you make thus if you make 3k from a wedding, you only have 2k, then you subtract off deliverables which brings you down to maybe 1300. Thus at the end of a 3000 dollar wedding you're only actually making 1300 dollars, and from that you're also possibly paying a second shoot a few hundred dollars, which drops you to say 1k. For this 1k you're putting in at least 40 hours into the wedding between consults, etc. 

This 1k per wedding then has to pay for insurance, wear and tear on the camera bodies, gas, marketing expenses, etc. 

From there if you could shoot a wedding every weekend you may be ok. But in many locations you're limited to a short wedding season. 

There's a reason that professional photographers in general make only 30,000 per year. Yes, some make much more than that, but as an average it's not all that much.


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## Chris Cummins (Jan 18, 2010)

I've done posts like this. It makes you feel good and might (if you're lucky) get a link or a retweet from some other photographer but that's about all it accomplishes.

You could do what I do and boil it down to my favorite reply to price objections: "Wouldn't you agree it is better to pay more than you expected rather than less than you should?"


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## skieur (Jan 18, 2010)

NateWagner said:


> There's a reason that professional photographers in general make only 30,000 per year. Yes, some make much more than that, but as an average it's not all that much.


 
I knew I had a good reason to stay out of wedding photography. 

skieur


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## jubb (Jan 18, 2010)

I'd just sum it up with, hopefully their work speaks for their price.


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## mindundalk (Jan 20, 2010)

jubb said:


> I'd just sum it up with, hopefully their work speaks for their price.



The problem we seem to be having here is on one hand you have the professional photographer like me ( on the street paying rent and all the rest that comes with ) and then on the other hand you have the 9-5 guy whom already has a job(not photography related and then at the weekend does a wedding a week and only charges 500-1000 euro probably cash in hand so the tax man never sees it and doesn't have any over heads like me.

That makes it tough...


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## robertwsimpson (Jan 20, 2010)

mindundalk said:


> jubb said:
> 
> 
> > I'd just sum it up with, hopefully their work speaks for their price.
> ...



That happens no matter what industry you're in.  We have to compete with the guy selling cars out of a trashy corner lot, or the shop down the street doing work for half the price.  We have to present a list of benefits that comes with buying or servicing your vehicle with us, and then we have to meet or exceed those expectations that we've created.  The successful businesses do that.  Some people are willing to pay extra for a better result.  To some people, price is the only thing that does or will ever matter.  That's just how it is.


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## bennielou (Jan 20, 2010)

NateWagner said:


> Well, there are other reasons as well, but as you said Robert, customers don't care about them.
> 
> One of these reasons, is that taxes immediately take up about 1/3 to 1/4 of what you make thus if you make 3k from a wedding, you only have 2k, then you subtract off deliverables which brings you down to maybe 1300. Thus at the end of a 3000 dollar wedding you're only actually making 1300 dollars, and from that you're also possibly paying a second shoot a few hundred dollars, which drops you to say 1k. For this 1k you're putting in at least 40 hours into the wedding between consults, etc.
> 
> ...


 

Ok, no offense, but "craziest post ever".
I am a full time wedding photographer, and if I made $30 grand a year I would have hung up my cameras a LONG time ago.  We make 4 times that.

Your taxing is also wrong.  In my state the State Sales Tax is 8.25 percent.  For a $5000 wedding, that is, $412.00  But fear not!!!!  I get to take a portion of that off my Federal Taxes, as well as my studio, my programs, my cameras, my electric, expendibles...on and on and on.  I'm totally not getting this "1/3 to 1/4" figure at ALL.

Also, if you are taking up 40 hours on consulting a week, then you need a better stragegy, ie, charging enough that you don't have a ton of tire kickers.  The people who will contact you will be vetted, and if you are a good photographer, and a good salesman, you will book them at the price you request.

Hopefully, as a business person, you have figured in your camera costs per shoot, and any needed repairs.  For instance, I had two 5ds go down within a month.  With CPS, my cost for repairs (2 thrown mirrors, and one shutter), less than $400....this after five years with the same cameras.


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## NateWagner (Jan 20, 2010)

take a look at WPPI's stats... the stats say that the "AVERAGE" make about 30K per year (take home) actually I believe that average for those without a studio are about 30k per year and average with a studio front are 27k per year. 

I think you have your taxing wrong... that or you need to get an accountant. Sales tax is nothing to do with it, often times that is added on top of what you collect anyway. Income tax is the killer. The average american has to pay 1/3 to 1/4 of his income in taxes anyway. Then, beyond that as a business owner you have to pay additional taxes. 

some people do make a great deal per year as I stated. I have no idea what you charge, but if you are charging 5k a year you're probably up there anyway as you are definitely above the "average" wedding photographer's price range. 

I am not here to argue with you about what you make, I am merely pointing out what the average photographer makes, and that is shown to be right around 30k per year. I know some that make upwards of 200k per year though they are few and far between, and others who make well less.


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## bennielou (Jan 20, 2010)

But you don't want to be the Average, do you?  You have pros, sometimes part timers who are in that Statistical mess.  The people I know, personally are making $80 and above, but that is just the people I know.  I don't hang around landscape artists and soforth, but they are also professionals and might make less.

I have an accountant.  That is why I know exactly how things go.  Just a question for you, and feel free not to answer it:  Are you a professional photographer, do you charge the required State Sales Taxes, and do YOU have a tax pro working for you?  It's ok if you don't, but I've been doing this for a long time, doing it right, and I'm pretty solid on Tax issues.

Yes, we are charging above average rates, but it all goes back to the math.  Your math is simply not correct, and that is what I had the most issue with.

Yes again, photographer's net varies on a variety of issues.  But to grow and expand, or even consider it, they need real numbers.


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## NateWagner (Jan 20, 2010)

LOL!

Yeah, but there is a value in knowing what the average salary is. Obviously you aren't tied to it in either direction. You aren't guarunteed the salary just because that  is what most people make, and you aren't tied to only making that much, but it is a guideline.


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## bennielou (Jan 20, 2010)

You also have to consider, that the average photographer these days also has another full time job.  They aren't concerned with racking in the bucks, because they have another source of income.

For my husband and I, this is all we do.  And yes, if you concentrate your business, and are successful, you can easily make $200,000 a year doing photography, seminar, and endorsements.

What WPPI is doing, is doing is averaging everyone who writes a check.  Some of those people are Moms with a Camera.  Some are part timers with a full time job.  Others are photographers without a base, and finally, some that have a large base and further deals with vendors.

But back to the post.  Your tax numbers are not even close.  Not even in the ballpark.  A lot of doom and gloom, imo, that is totally out reality.


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## bennielou (Jan 20, 2010)

NateWagner said:


> LOL!
> 
> Yeah, but there is a value in knowing what the average salary is. Obviously you aren't tied to it in either direction. You aren't guarunteed the salary just because that is what most people make, and you aren't tied to only making that much, but it is a guideline.


 
Honestly, at this point I don't even know what the hell you are talking about anymore. 
I charge a certain amount of money per wedding, and a certain amount of money per: babies, dudeior, boudior, maternity, couples, etc. I make as much as I have time to.
You are talking in circles.
If you are bitter about not making the money you think you need to, then maybe you should revisit your shooting and business practices.
Don't be a downer to everyone else. There are great people, on this forum, right now, who want to get ahead. They don't need bad numbers and statistic. And you still didn't answer me on YOUR accountant. I have one. I've had one for years.
You are giving me stats, based on a website.  What do you have to say PERSONALLY.  What is your experience.  First Hand.  Tell me that.


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## NateWagner (Jan 20, 2010)

How am I being a downer? because I am giving an average? 

I did not begin this to be a downer, it was why do Photogs charge what they charge. And my point was merely that even though what they charge may seem exorbitant it isn't (overly high) as they (photographers) still don't (typically) make a great deal per year. 

You obviously took this as though I was saying, don't become a professional photog because you won't make anything. This was not my point in the least.


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## robertwsimpson (Jan 20, 2010)

either way, if you are getting into photography to make big bucks, you might want to re-evaluate your decision.


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## NateWagner (Jan 20, 2010)

Absolutely, do it because you love it. And if you are highly successful like bennie appears to be then congrats!


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## bennielou (Jan 20, 2010)

NateWagner said:


> How am I being a downer? because I am giving an average?
> 
> I did not begin this to be a downer, it was why do Photogs charge what they charge. And my point was merely that even though what they charge may seem exorbitant it isn't (overly high) as they (photographers) still don't (typically) make a great deal per year.
> 
> You obviously took this as though I was saying, don't become a professional photog because you won't make anything. This was not my point in the least.


 
Thanks for the resolve.  I knew we could meet in the middle somewhere.
Yes, I did indeed take it like that.  Sorry if I misunderstood.  But if I was a talented photographer, just starting out, I would have looked at your statistics, scewed as they were, and would have just stayed with my day job.
Thankfully I didn't have any statistics when I started out.  I followed my heart, and it was the best thing I ever did.  From my photography, my husband and I have been able to purchase a nice house, got all the credit paid off, and pay cash for pretty much everything.
We love what we do and are rewarded in not just money, but also having a great time, loving every moment, kind of job. 
But taxes are my great crusade.  I've seen many a talented photog go out of business because they don't understand them.  People have lost their homes and businesses because of that, and that is why I locked into your post.
There is soooo much misinformation out there.  Photogs are confused about State Taxes vs. Federal.  I don't want anyone to loose their house.  I don't want anyone to get into the kinds of messes I've seen my friends and mentors get into.  And I want real numbers out there.
I'm where I want to be, and I'm rooting for all of you who dream big.  I remember being there.  All giddy, with no idea.


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## bennielou (Jan 20, 2010)

robertwsimpson said:


> either way, if you are getting into photography to make big bucks, you might want to re-evaluate your decision.


 
If you love it, and you are good at it, there is no reason to worry.  If you are kinda ho humm, then yes, maybe you should do an evalve.


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## schumionbike (Jan 21, 2010)

I always thought the price of photography is justify by the final products that they delivered.  A photographer who charged 5 grand a wedding would deliver images that are worth 5 grand (at least in the eyes of the clients).  However, there are hundred of reasons why people cannot such a service.  Businesses survived because they figure out way to cut cost not justifying it so that article in my opinion, did not really help anyone.    That say, how do you guys go about keeping your cost down?


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## c.cloudwalker (Jan 21, 2010)

robertwsimpson said:


> either way, if you are getting into photography to make big bucks, you might want to re-evaluate your decision.





NateWagner said:


> Absolutely, do it because you love it. And if you are highly successful like bennie appears to be then congrats!



Wrong and wrong. There is money to be made with photography if you want photography to be your business but it has to be approached as a business. And plenty of people earn their income from jobs/careers they hate so why do you have to do photography because you love it? I don't see anything wrong with choosing photo as a career just to make money. I believe the love of it helps in getting the shots but it is not an absolute necessity.

Most small/mediumish businesses (not just in photography) fail because people are not very good with the business side of things. Look at the state of stock photography today. A whole bunch of people are putting their work on the web hoping to make a sale and they may get a few $100s a year. Definitely not enough to quit their day jobs.

Now, there is another way to work stock and that is the way I did and the way serious stock photogs still do it today I'm sure. I spend a few years shooting about 75% stock and, even though I have been out of photography for a while now, I still derive an income from my stock that is at least 2/3 of what the average photog mentioned earlier makes.

You can say congrats but that is not helping you much. Some people are not afraid of the competition and are trying to teach newer photographers here and on other forums how to make a go of it but you have to be willing to listen. Not everybody who makes a good living with it is here to make themselves feel good and make you feel small. Get over it.


To get back to the OP main concern...

Who is this list for? I would never discuss with a customer/client why I charge what I charge. Period. They couldn't care less what the reasons are. All they really care about are the results. Your work should tell them all they really need to know. And I believe that is exactly the case with bennielou.


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## robertwsimpson (Jan 21, 2010)

c.cloudwalker said:


> robertwsimpson said:
> 
> 
> > either way, if you are getting into photography to make big bucks, you might want to re-evaluate your decision.
> ...



I don't call that big bucks...


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## c.cloudwalker (Jan 21, 2010)

robertwsimpson said:


> I don't call that big bucks...



Minimum $20,000 a year without lifting a finger is/would be big bucks to most people and I'm happy to take it in. But if you do better, I'm happy for you.


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## robertwsimpson (Jan 21, 2010)

I wouldn't send the checks back, but that's hardly "big bucks."

Just living in south florida costs way more than that.  I guess in Georgia, big bucks starts at a different level.


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## c.cloudwalker (Jan 21, 2010)

^^^^

How do you make $20,000 without lifting a finger?


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## robertwsimpson (Jan 21, 2010)

I don't.  I'm just saying that $20k is not big bucks.  Which is all I've said about photography... if you're getting into it to make big bucks, rethink it.  I'm not saying that you can't make supplemental income, which is what you seem to be arguing.


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## NateWagner (Jan 21, 2010)

and in any event... what you are talking about holds in a number of other fields. If you work in Insurance, as an Author, or a Musician, heck even some pyramid type plans (my parents do one selling vitamins where everyone that keeps using the vitamins results in them getting paid regardless of them doing anything. 

That is just to say that what you are talking about is not an uncommon thing. One other thing though, as you mentioned is that it can be quite difficult to get into stock photography because most things have already been thoroughly photographed for that. 

It worked for you, that's great, but it's not an easy way to make money as you are seemingly suggesting.


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## c.cloudwalker (Jan 21, 2010)

Thank you. Yes, in this case, I was talking about supplemental income and that is pretty substantial as such. But if you can make that much from supplemental income, don't you think you can make way, way more while actually working at it?

As I said earlier there are people here willing to teach you how to do it but you have to be willing to listen. I also mentioned that some of us are not afraid of the competition and, unfortunately, the main reason for that (for me at least) is that most people don't listen. How can you be a threat to my income if you can't listen to me telling you how to do it?


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## c.cloudwalker (Jan 21, 2010)

NateWagner said:


> and in any event... what you are talking about holds in a number of other fields. If you work in Insurance, as an Author, or a Musician, heck even some pyramid type plans (my parents do one selling vitamins where everyone that keeps using the vitamins results in them getting paid regardless of them doing anything.
> 
> That is just to say that what you are talking about is not an uncommon thing. One other thing though, as you mentioned is that it can be quite difficult to get into stock photography because most things have already been thoroughly photographed for that.
> 
> It worked for you, that's great, but it's not an easy way to make money as you are seemingly suggesting.



Absolutely right. Photography is not the only market where it works but we are on a photo forum so that is what I talk about.

And yes, I think it is harder to get in the "real" stock market today but places/things change and that means it is far from impossible to get involved. As an example, my photos of Paris are still selling but yours could sell too because yours, being more recent, will show up to date cars in them. Do you see what I mean?

If spending a few years shooting stock is suggesting that it is an easy way to make money, whip me with a wet noodle. Business is never easy but it can pay off if you are to be willing to do what it takes is what I'm trying to say.

And that is true of any business.


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## NateWagner (Jan 21, 2010)

agreed. 

There are people that can make a great deal of money in any field.


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## c.cloudwalker (Jan 21, 2010)

NateWagner said:


> agreed.
> 
> There are people that can make a great deal of money in any field.



Yes, and that means *you* can do it in photography if you look at it the right way.

You can do it too. Granted, you need to have to have the basics down. Snapshot shooters are not going to make it.


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## NateWagner (Jan 21, 2010)

yes, you *can* do it in photography. A point which neither I nor anybody else has disputed throughout this thread.


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## c.cloudwalker (Jan 21, 2010)

NateWagner said:


> yes, you *can* do it in photography. A point which neither I nor anybody else has disputed throughout this thread.



I'm not sure this is agreeing with me: "either way, if you are getting into photography to make big bucks, you might want to re-evaluate your decision."

And I find it funny that I am arguing about making big bucks when I couldn't care less. Yeah, really. I guess that is the insanity of today's world. A lot of us can live very nicely with less than we make. Yet we just want to make more.


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## bennielou (Jan 21, 2010)

schumionbike said:


> I always thought the price of photography is justify by the final products that they delivered. A photographer who charged 5 grand a wedding would deliver images that are worth 5 grand (at least in the eyes of the clients). However, there are hundred of reasons why people cannot such a service. Businesses survived because they figure out way to cut cost not justifying it so that article in my opinion, did not really help anyone. That say, how do you guys go about keeping your cost down?


 

You are right about that.  For each delivered album for instance, I charge x3.  The reason being, I have my cost, my design time, and just in case I need to redo it for any reason, I am covered and break even.  If I don't have to redo the album  (I have never had to), I make a nice little profit.

I charge a premium in the area that I am in.  I didn't just make the number up, I reseached it.   I looked to see what likewise skilled photogs charged, and went from there.  I raised my pricing until the phone stopped ringing, and went back $200.  My direct area has more than 500 photographers, so that was a lot of research.  I've got a lot of "rockstars" in my area, and I'm no rockstar, so it took me a long time to figure it out.

I charge based on my time, which is based on real numbers other people like me are getting.  Then I add in my services and expenditures, all of course marked up, because that is the way that business things need to be done.  

No, not every bride can afford $5000.  There are photogs out there for the $1000 bride.  I'm just not one of them.  I'm not being egotistical, but I just know what I'm worth because I researched it, and the phone still rings.  That's really just how it works.


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## bennielou (Jan 21, 2010)

c.cloudwalker said:


> NateWagner said:
> 
> 
> > yes, you *can* do it in photography. A point which neither I nor anybody else has disputed throughout this thread.
> ...


 

Hey, I'll take all that I can reasonably make.  Photography can be a blast, and a pain depending on the client, whether that be stock, or whatever. 
I'm all about making money, but I don't let it control things.  If I see red flags, I'm out.


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## NateWagner (Jan 21, 2010)

c.cloudwalker said:


> NateWagner said:
> 
> 
> > yes, you *can* do it in photography. A point which neither I nor anybody else has disputed throughout this thread.
> ...



What I think is humorous is this is something I didn't say. I believe that was Robertwsimpson. And beyond that, he didn't say you won't make big bucks, but rather that this isn't necessarily the field to get into if you are mostly concerned about making a ton of money. Is it possible? yes, absolutely. Is it likely? not particularly.

And besides that, most of the artists out there that end up being highly successful don't choose the profession because they could make a ton of money, but because they loved it.


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## bennielou (Jan 21, 2010)

NateWagner said:


> c.cloudwalker said:
> 
> 
> > NateWagner said:
> ...


 
Nate,
I think it's a combo.  I might want to be a dancer.  I can dream, right?  If I reallyreallyreally wanted that, I might do it just for the thrill of doing it.

If I wanted to make money, and only money, I would probably pick the thing I was best at that made me the most money.  If that was the case, I wouldn't be in photography.  I made more in big ticket sales.

So what I did, was picking a combo of what I really liked, and then made it worth a lot of money.  

You can do both.


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## mindundalk (Feb 4, 2010)

Here is an important point for portrait and wedding photographers to realize: Ninety-five percent of the time, the portrait and wedding photography purchasing decision is made by a woman. If you're a portrait or wedding photographer and you're not deliberately designing your marketing, product lines, sales techniques, packaging, and every other aspect of the "purchasing experience" (including your personal appearance) specifically for a female client, you're probably losing sales.


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## mindundalk (Feb 8, 2010)

NateWagner said:


> c.cloudwalker said:
> 
> 
> > NateWagner said:
> ...


True


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