# Solitude



## mindfloodz




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## mindfloodz

I cropped it down a little.


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## dxqcanada

I do not feel it.

I do not think the tree/plants add to that.
There is no sense of what the child is viewing.


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## mindfloodz

Thank you for the feedback


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## SilverEF88

I like it and think that you captured a mood and a feeling really well. Cropped definitely made it a better picture.  The girl looking down even gave it a creepy kind of feel.  I like it.


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## mindfloodz

[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]*"You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time*" -- _Abraham Lincoln_.  LOL!



Again Silver, Thank you for the kind words and your feedback! 




[/FONT]


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## Provo

I like the image


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## mindfloodz

Thank you, it's one of my fav's I want to frame it in an 8x12


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## Provo

Original no crop the crop isn't working for this image


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## Bitter Jeweler

I jump in on the not caring for it camp. I don't think the tree adds anything to the image, and I rarely find shots of the back of people to be very emotive at all. At first look, I thought the edging around the tulips was a bear trap, which made me look more closely at that to realize what it was. That means that stuff is a distraction.


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## mindfloodz

Thank you for the feedback


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## AUG19

I agree the crop improves what's there but i'm undecided whether i like it or not. As you say, it's a morose kind of mood. Certainly holds my attention when I look at it. What's it like in color? I'm wondering if as an XPro or unsusual toning might bring something more from it.


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## mindfloodz

Here's the original before all the cropping and what-not.. Morose is the mood I was going for! I love Morose and dark photography


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## AUG19

Thanks for taking the trouble. Your choice for a mono conversion I think is a good one.

I did an edit. May I post it?


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## mindfloodz

absolutely, go right ahead!


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## AUG19

K


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## AUG19




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## Provo

To me the image looks better in B&W second the crop tends to reduce the dof on the original 
to be honest the b&w I thought she was close to the edge of a river LOL man my eyes 
are strained thats why I like the image I really thought it was a lake haaa.

You should frame it she looks adorable with her little shoes 
this weekend coming up I become a Godfather :thumbup:


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## mindfloodz

@Provo - Congrats bro!!! Also, thank you for the crit. 

@Aug - it is a different take on it for sure. my main problem with this crop you've done is the left thirds line seems to be a little off, Her shoulder does intersect the top left thirds line, but I have come to kinda like the view of the top dark border across the street. Thank you for taking the time and putting in the effort to edit my photo. I'm glad it was worthy of such attention! it is appreciated!  What programs are you working with? ie. photoshop CS5 - NIK - Topaz, etc..


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## mishele

Solitude
&#8211;noun 1. the state of being or living alone; seclusion: to enjoy one's solitude.

This shot doesn't illustrate solitude for me because there is no vast space that the child is looking to. To get that feel you need to show us what the child is looking at (open empty space, as an example). So the angle is all wrong here. =)
When you shoot someone from behind you need to finish the story by showing the direction they are looking.
Keep shooting!!


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## mindfloodz

Thank you for the feedback


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## mishele

mindfloodz said:


> thanks mishele, will take that into consideration. How bout, isolation? Although I do like Seclusion.. You must know the background story to understand why I took the picture. She was very sad and "secluded" herself from everyone else on Easter. She was solitary, therefore I called this "Solitude, although in hindsight, Seclusion may work better for a title I suppose...
> 
> Also, I did show what she saw, THE GROUND, LOL!! She was hanging her head and looking at the ground/street... therefore I feel i accomplished that goal



That is a great story but a photo needs to tell it's own story!! And the feeling you are talking about isn't coming through.


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## mindfloodz

Thank you for the feedback


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## mishele

You are emotionally attached to the photo so the emotion is easy for you........=) I can see some feeling of solitude but only because she is alone.


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## mindfloodz

Thank you for the feedback


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## manaheim

Just because a picture is reasonably well assembled (and I wouldn't necessarily agree that this one was, btw), doesn't mean it is a picture that has any kind of real impact to the viewer.

Or to look at it another way, analyzing a Van Gogh by tearing apart how it is composed and what the color and contrast choices are... isn't really getting the point of the painting.

As for many here, this pic leaves me feeling very flat.  I don't get really any emotion at all... and btw as a technical aside, it also looks like your original was pretty badly underexposed.


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## mishele

Maybe if her head was tipped down a little, but still there is no story. Why is she sad? You know things that we as a viewer, don't know.....=) Emotion is very hard to accurately show through a photo!! =)


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## AUG19

@mindfloodz Yes i see what you mean...a tighter 1:1 is just about do-able making the edge of her left foot/sandle at 1/3 vertical. BTW, you're welcome. Just made levels and curves adjustments..also dropped the highlight slider way down to give the Orton like softness. In GIMP tried the 'Portra' toning plugin on a 100% layer. Duplicated everything onto another layer and added a reduced gamma/brightness adjustment via a radial mask at xx%. Let me know if/when you want it off the web.


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## mishele

AUG19 said:


> Yea i see what you mean. You're welcome. Just made levels and curves adjustments..also dropped the highlight slider way downn to give the Orton like softness. In GIMP tried the 'Portra' toning plugin on a 100% layer. Duplicated everythiing onto another layer and added a reduced gamma/brightness adjustment via a radial mask at xx%. Let me know if/when you want it off the web.



You can do all the PPing you want but this shot still doesn't work. W/ out emotion this shot is nothing. =)


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## AUG19

OK chill  it's just a photo lol


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## mindfloodz

Thank you for the feedback


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## mishele

AUG19 said:


> OK chill  it's just a photo lol



Who needs to chill? lol You are right, it is just a photo!!


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## mishele

Mana....run away.......he is in defensive mode now.


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## mindfloodz

Thank you for the feedback


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## mindfloodz

i deleted my comments as I am not engaging in this any longer


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## mindfloodz

here ya go.. LOL   I whipped it up really quick


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## mishele

mindfloodz said:


> i deleted my comments as I am not engaging in this any longer


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## Bitter Jeweler

Holy history change Batman!!!





That's pretty ****ty.


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## manaheim

Bitter Jeweler said:


> Holy history change Batman!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's pretty ****ty.



Yeah, but his most recent version of the shot is ****ing epic.


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## Bitter Jeweler

I know! I wonder how they feel about it on the other forum, that gives better CC.


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## manaheim

Bitter Jeweler said:


> I know! I wonder how they feel about it on the other forum, that gives better CC.



Are you poking fun at me???


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## Bitter Jeweler

No, it (a glowing critique from another forum) was in a post that is deleted, to prove to those who don't find the image to be awesome, exactly why it is indeed, awesome.


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## manaheim

Bitter Jeweler said:


> No, it (a glowing critique from another forum) was in a post that is deleted, to prove to those who don't find the image to be awesome, exactly why it is indeed, awesome.



oh oh oh.

I thought you were referring to "the forum that shall not be named".


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## Bitter Jeweler

Yeah, I don't know what forum it was.


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## mishele

I believe this tells everything........
http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/black-white-gallery/243236-emotion.html


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## Bitter Jeweler

Who was it that made that thread about not posting pictures of your kids for CC? I know he hasn't been around in a long time.
Anyway, I think that thread applies here..


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## mindfloodz

mishele said:


> I believe this tells everything........
> http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/black-white-gallery/243236-emotion.html



I think the picture speaks volumes about how I feel about the C&C I received for the likes of your three. It captures my emotion almost 100%   They say a picture is worth a 1000 words, that one focuses on two!


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## Bitter Jeweler

Says a LOT about you too. Carry on, or whatever.


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## Provo

Bitter Jeweler said:


> Says a LOT about you too. Carry on, or whatever.


BitterJeweler can't help yourself to be a douche now can you? Always doing a ****load of talking but not a lot of walking.
You might want to check out http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/black-white-gallery/243236-emotion.html I think you left some residue behind.

* And to those that care to wonder why I am sticking my nose into this matter well for one Mindfloodz is a friend yeah he needs to learn a little about taking critique, but that is not the point. The point is this tool BitterJeweler all he does is bash people's threads repeatedly it get's old say something constructive helpful or just plain & simple don't look at the image and bark up somewhere else. Bickering back & forth on the same thread just shows you stepped down low & acting a little immature on your own part. 

Depicting an image and tearing it apart does what? NOTHING but belittle the person who shared the image with us this isn't critique this is just being an ass.  And for that reason alone I am jumping on here  it has nothing to do with being friends with mindfloodz I will back up anyone being ridiculed. Enough of this crap put up or shut up hey come on over and do some of the hdr challenges since you are always talking of such high expectations show us what you have yeah exactly a bag full of air.


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## Bitter Jeweler

Provo said:


> Bitter Jeweler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Says a LOT about you too. Carry on, or whatever.
> 
> 
> 
> BitterJeweler can't help yourself to be a douche now can you? Always doing a ****load of talking but not a lot of walking.
> You might want to check out http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/black-white-gallery/243236-emotion.html I think you left some residue behind.
Click to expand...

 
Not a lot of walking, eh? You are entitled to your narrow view of the world.
Residue? I didn't realize it was my responsibility to wipe up his tears.



> * And to those that care to wonder why I am sticking my nose into this matter well for one Mindfloodz is a friend yeah he needs to learn a little about taking critique, but that is not the point.


 No, of course that is not the point. Deleting posts, and stopping discussion because one doesn't like what they are reading is perfectly acceptable.




> The point is this tool BitterJeweler all he does is bash people's threads repeatedly it get's old say something constructive helpful or just plain & simple don't look at the image and bark up somewhere else.


 Is that really *ALL* I do? Oh, I see, we are back to your narrow view. This run on sentence of yours also suggests, to everyone, that only positive comments are allowed on this forum. Interesting concept. 





> Bickering back & forth on the same thread just shows you stepped down low & acting a little immature on your own part.


 Yeah, you are right, the commentary AFTER the OP deleted all his posts was probably not needed. Review the thread, and you will see there was no bickering back and forth prior to the OP's noble actions. Deleting posts before I even had a chance to respond in a civil manner. But do point the douchbaggery finger at me, it is totally warranted.



> Depicting an image and tearing it apart does what? NOTHING but belittle the person who shared the image with us this isn't critique this is just being an ass.


Again, I forgot that we are only allowed to like everything posted on the forum, and never say anything contrary to the glowing reviews. That is indeed helpful to a person looking to get better.



> And for that reason alone I am jumping on here it has nothing to do with being friends with mindfloodz


Oh, of course not. The mere mentioning of the friendship does nothing to color your response.



> I will back up anyone being ridiculed.


Oh, game on!
Start HERE, somebody needs saving!




> Enough of this crap put up or shut up


 You are right. Someday I should actually post a picture here for critique. :roll: Oh, wait! I have! I will also continue to do so, when I have images I feel are worthy of sharing. See, I have moved beyond that point of sharing every bit of garbage that comes out of my camera. 




> hey come on over and do some of the hdr challenges since you are always talking of such high expectations show us what you have yeah exactly a bag full of air.


What if I don't care for HDR photography? Notice I don't go over there and critique them?

So what would change your mind about me? Do I need to post a resume?
Or would it be much classier of me to post a picture flipping you off?


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## manaheim

It's not worth getting too much into it, but I just wanna say I disagree with pretty much every damned thing Provo said and I think Bitter is a stand-up guy.

People on this damn forum are such a crack up.  They want to post asking for critique, but then tell the people critiquing what is and is not acceptable when the critique is being delivered.  That's kind of like asking a car mechanic to tell you what is wrong with your car, but telling him he's not allowed to open the hood or make any references to motor oil during the process.

If you're going to make the assumption that someone may know more than you about how to improve something, you may also want to make the assumption that they know more than you do about how to deliver the information.


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## mishele

Funny thing is, all this came from C&C from me that wasn't even that harsh. lol I just gave you examples of ways that "Solitude" would be better conveyed. If anything good came out of this.....at least I really enjoyed your "Emotion" shot.......


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## mindfloodz

manaheim said:


> It's not worth getting too much into it, but I just wanna say I disagree with pretty much every damned thing Provo said and I think Bitter is a stand-up guy.
> 
> People on this damn forum are such a crack up. They want to post asking for critique, but then tell the people critiquing what is and is not acceptable when the critique is being delivered. That's kind of like asking a car mechanic to tell you what is wrong with your car, but telling him he's not allowed to open the hood or make any references to motor oil during the process.
> 
> If you're going to make the assumption that someone may know more than you about how to improve something, you may also want to make the assumption that they know more than you do about how to deliver the information.


 
Opening the hood and telling someone what's wrong with their vehicle is one thing, but to tell them they should have purchased a Caddy versus a Ford is another story. Then you go on to tell them their car doesn't have the type of interior you like, because you prefer cloth to leather, so it's a piece of crap. Oh and BTW I hate your paint job too!!! I prefer red to blue. Oh and them rims you put on your car, they are Ghetto and make you look like your trying to be in a music video.. etc.. I could go on and on.

 Anyhow, the point is, to hold every single member to a standard as high as a professional is a bit counter-productive.Not everyone has professional experience under their belt. It's a bit disheartening and honestly very unmotivating after receiving such a harsh critique. If you're gonna give someone a critique, rather than completely ripping the picture in two, try to ATLEAST tell them what they are doing right, as well as doing wrong

. I believe many people come on here that think their sh!t smells sweeter than most and just tears down everyone's work except for their little cliques. Those clicks sit around in a circle and pat each other on the back. That's how I've see it. I've done a little digging.  

Honestly, I'd prefer you not comment on my work at all if you have nothing to say that will lets me know what I'm doing right as well as wrong. I don't want kittens and teddy bears, but I'm just starting out, and I have people telling me one thing and then I got people telling me another. Who do I believe? I don't know who is right and who is wrong. It's very confusing to say the least. 

it's like having the expectations of a college student from someone in junior high. It's just not gonan happen unless they are some sort of child prodigy. I don't claim my work is great, but i don't think it's quite as bad as the three of you have made it out to be. I belong to 4+ forums, and this is the only place I received such harsh criticism. Majority rules, or I've been lead to believe.


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## mindfloodz

mishele said:


> Funny thing is, all this came from C&C from me that wasn't even that harsh. lol I just gave you examples of ways that "Solitude" would be better conveyed. If anything good came out of this.....at least I really enjoyed your "Emotion" shot.......


 
Your's wasn't that harsh and I actually can appreciate your critique, it was the peanut gallery that I direct most of my commentary back at. 

I enjoy the emotion shot too. I've already had two buyers within 20 minutes of posting

In all of this atleast I broke 50 replies.


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## mishele

See we should get a cut of the money you make....lol We were the inspiration!!!


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## mindfloodz

mishele said:


> See we should get a cut of the money you make....lol We were the inspiration!!!


 As i said before, this wasn't directed so much at you. Maybe a little  lol


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## Provo

Bitter Jeweler said:


> hey come on over and do some of the hdr challenges since you are always talking of such high expectations show us what you have yeah exactly a bag full of air.
> 
> 
> 
> *What if I don't care for HDR photography? Notice I don't go over there and critique them?*
> 
> So what would change your mind about me? Do I need to post a resume?
> Or would it be much classier of me to post a picture flipping you off?
Click to expand...


A simple search for your username and HDR section polls up the following.
Two of which where actually nice comments on two of my images which I thank you for.

Look I don't hold nothing against anyone what was said and all I'm saying if someone not just to point the finger at you but in general if someone post an image and it's not your cup of tea think a little before you type something be constructive not just bash the image. I already talked to mindfloodz and told him he needs to take critique a little better it's a fact of life not everyone is going to like your image hell some people haven't like mine but that doesn't make me go at war with everyone. Just be civil is all im saying I know I blew up and said somethings which I apologize for but man it takes a lot to get me started. Anyway I am squashing this you two need to get along in which ever way you both decide. I said what I had to say and I am moving along.


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## Bitter Jeweler

For those playing at home, here is one of the posts that was considered harsh and the OP's response to it was deleted:


Bitter Jeweler said:


> I jump in on the not caring for it camp. I don't think the tree adds anything to the image, and I rarely find shots of the back of people to be very emotive at all. At first look, I thought the edging around the tulips was a bear trap, which made me look more closely at that to realize what it was. That means that stuff is a distraction.


 
It's all pretty much my opinion isn't it? Is it really that harsh? Is it harsh to the OP simply because it's the OP's precious daughter and he has a connection to the image that no other viewer will have. I will say it again, as it applies to all any image like this,* I rarely find shots of the back of people to be very emotive. *There is nothing for *for me* in this image that suggests she is sad.* To me*, she is simply looking down. A suggestive title doesn't change that. It is also *my opinion* that a successful image should be able to stand alone without a title. Isn't that the goal of photography? To tell a story with imagery?  





mindfloodz said:


> Anyhow, the point is, to hold every single member to a standard as high as a professional is a bit counter-productive.Not everyone has professional experience under their belt. It's a bit disheartening and honestly very unmotivating after receiving such a harsh critique. If you're gonna give someone a critique, rather than completely ripping the picture in two, try to ATLEAST tell them what they are doing right, as well as doing wrong.


 What standard should be applied? The standard of amateurs that dont understand composition and visual language? It's funny that so many people flock here _wanting_ the opinions of professionals and want to hear how they can improve, wanting to learn about composition from someone who has a firm grasp of it. It's at the sole discretion of the person posting the image what to take from the comments. This place is interesting in that people continually whine that they don't get enough comments, or that they don't like the comments, or that they weren't given in a particularly pleasing way. It's also very interesting to see the ignorance of people who really don't know anything coming here to learn, to say that they know better. To post someone elses *opinion* from another forum, is pretty meaningless. Who are they? What are their credentials? By being combative with a differing *opinion*, you will only stack the deck in your favor. When others see differing opinions are unwelcome, they will refuse to comment on future posts, and your learning is hampered by that.  



> I believe many people come on here that think their sh!t smells sweeter than most and just tears down everyone's work except for their little cliques. Those clicks sit around in a circle and pat each other on the back. That's how I've see it. I've done a little digging.


 
You know what, there *ARE* better photographers here than the majority of members. You need to accept that, and maybe learn from them. But if you can't, then you won't learn. What you see, with your "digging" may not be a complete picture, and it's pretty obvious, not very objective. A beginners forum, where a majority of the images posted are pretty much less than awesome, will obviously have more negative comments than glowing reviews. It's not rocket science. Glowing reviews can be had in barrels from Facebook, Flickr, Friends, and Family. The four F's!  Your digging also failed you, because the "clique" has no problem letting another know when their images aren't strong. Speaking of cliques, I see two of them, one clique cannot accept negative responses, and thus recieves fewer comments, and the other clique recieves negative comments well, thus they will recieve more comments. Dig further and you will see that. 



> Honestly, I'd prefer you not comment on my work at all if you have nothing to say that will lets me know what I'm doing right as well as wrong. I don't want kittens and teddy bears, but I'm just starting out, and I have people telling me one thing and then I got people telling me another. Who do I believe? I don't know who is right and who is wrong. It's very confusing to say the least.


 This is exactly the point I made above. What if you didn't do anything right? What if your composition is lacking, your focus is soft, it's under exposed, and the subject is lacking? What good is there to talk about? Should everyone just not comment? Who do you believe? Who is right and who is wrong? No one and everyone! You need to take all the comments *(opinions)* and process them yourself. Really think about them. OBJECTIVELY, removing any attachment you have to the subject. That's not so easy to do, is it? You need to take comments like "people shot from behind rarely convey emotion" and apply it to your images and other peoples images and decide how true it is for yourself. Find examples of when it actually works, and figure out why. None of this is so cut and dry that anyone here can give you definitive answers. You need to be able to actually discuss issues brought up, rather than getting mad and deleting your posts and sticking your head in the sand.



> it's like having the expectations of a college student from someone in junior high. It's just not gonan happen unless they are some sort of child prodigy.


So how do you make someone strive to be better? Coddle them, or be harsh? From what I experienced in Uni, that is exactly what seperated the wheat from the chaff. Critiques were brutal! You either learned from it and strived to be better,  or you ignored it, complained about it, and never got better. This is also why not everyone who sets out to be a great (anything) becomes great. Not all of the people who really strived to be better became better either. Who do you want to be taught by, the mediocre, or the successful.







> I don't claim my work is great, but i don't think it's quite as bad as the three of you have made it out to be.


What if it is? Not being rude, and not saying it *is* that bad, but seriously, what if it is? What do you do then?




> I belong to 4+ forums, and this is the only place I received such harsh criticism.


What does that speak to? You can spin the data any way you feel most comfortable with.



> Majority rules, or I've been lead to believe.


 
Depends on the majority. Is the majority MWC's? Or is the majority working pros?
If ten MWC's who advertise their services on Craiglist say this image is amazing, and one Zack Arias says the image is awful in every way...
Majority rules? 



While it was very cute of you to post a big FVCK YOU to everyone, how about you own up to your own bad behaviour that extinguished any constructive discussion before you or Provo point fingers. Hmmm? This thread took the bad turn the minute you did that. Own it.


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## Bitter Jeweler

Provo said:


> Bitter Jeweler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hey come on over and do some of *the hdr challenges* since you are always talking of such high expectations show us what you have yeah exactly a bag full of air.
> 
> 
> 
> *What if I don't care for HDR photography? Notice I don't go over there and critique them?   *
> *I was speaking to the challenges that you specifically brought up.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A simple search for your username and HDR section polls up the following.
> Two of which where actually nice comments on two of my images which I thank you for.
Click to expand...

 
Yay! My own posting history proved you wrong. :lmao:


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## mindfloodz

What got me heated to begin with is the "bear trap comment" That was the spark that lit the fire. Unless you've never seen one before, i can't image how it could be mistaken for anything else. Also, I own my own childishness for posting my photo "emotion". It was totally tongue in cheek and i wanted to get a rise out of it as well as be humorous. 

In terms of solitude, if I polled 100 random people and asked what emotion this picture conveyed, I'd bet ya  my Canon T1i that a majority would say sadness or loneliness. I was just taken back by the idea that this message was not conveyed to you. do you have children? Maybe this is only understood by those who have kids, maybe not. IDK. 

As I said before, maybe in the future you could swallow your pride just a bit and tell someone what is right, along with what is wrong. 

Also, is it that bad? Honestly? Is it better than JCpenny's or Sears, or the Picture people in the mall? you know, the commercial photography places.. It's not Professional, but it's certainly not the work of a simple point and shoot either, It's sharp, the white to black conversion is decent, and it obeys the rule of thirds. So what's really wrong with it outside of your "bear trap"? Compositionally speaking, it's valid. 

I would like to add, I do apologize for deleting my replies and would like to further extend this apology for my other behavior as an end to the bickering.


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## NayLoMo6C

i can vouch for mindfloodz here and say that I am definitely picking up on the "loneliness" of the photo. although personally if this was my photo, i would have probably aimed to have the tree on the right cropped out or to not include it at all.


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## mc1979

I think Bitter said it wonderfully. I'm also new here, and new to photography. I haven't posted here much, mainly because I'm learning alot from what has already been posted. I spend ALOT of time on here reading other posts and I get cracked up at some of these threads. What I seem to see alot of is is beginner's like myself posting  pics non-stop to be critiqued, without ever changing the habits from picture to picture that get critiqued on. They just keep doing the same thing! And then get mad when another keeps critiquing in the same manner! 
I do agree that I find some can be downright rude in their posts. To me there is a difference in harsh critiquing and just being a smart a$$ about it. But Bitter didn't say anything remotely out of the way in his critique. The bottom line is and I've seen over and over is that if you can't handle critique you shouldn't post on a public forum asking for it and then get defensive about it. Is that so hard to comprehend?
We are all here learning, and there is alot of talent on this forum. Take the criticism you get and use it! OR don't post. 

That being said, I will agree with the OP saying that he would like to see more of someone telling you what did work. And as Bitter said, well what if nothing worked? Ok.. so be it. People need to be able to accept that nothing might have worked in the photo. Move on to the next one.


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## mindfloodz

Thank you for the feedback and support naylomo  . Artistically we will all have our own preferences about what we want in the picture etc... I respect your opinion, but I have made the decision to keep it as the original with the three dark bordering sides (Top _across the street view_, right _tree_, bottom_ planter/tree trim_) and leave the left side open.


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## mindfloodz

mc1979 said:


> I think Bitter said it wonderfully. I'm also new here, and new to photography. I haven't posted here much, mainly because I'm learning alot from what has already been posted. I spend ALOT of time on here reading other posts and I get cracked up at some of these threads. What I seem to see alot of is is beginner's like myself posting  pics non-stop to be critiqued, without ever changing the habits from picture to picture that get critiqued on. They just keep doing the same thing! And then get mad when another keeps critiquing in the same manner!
> I do agree that I find some can be downright rude in their posts. To me there is a difference in harsh critiquing and just being a smart a$$ about it. But Bitter didn't say anything remotely out of the way in his critique. The bottom line is and I've seen over and over is that if you can't handle critique you shouldn't post on a public forum asking for it and then get defensive about it. Is that so hard to comprehend?
> We are all here learning, and there is alot of talent on this forum. Take the criticism you get and use it! OR don't post.
> 
> That being said, I will agree with the OP saying that he would like to see more of someone telling you what did work. And as Bitter said, well what if nothing worked? Ok.. so be it. People need to be able to accept that nothing might have worked in the photo. Move on to the next one.



So, to move on from thread hijacking - What worked and what didn't? did nothing work? Would you agree? did he actually say nothing worked, or did he just imply "what if nothing worked"? Hummm... Questions questions?


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## Bitter Jeweler

mindfloodz said:


> What got me heated to begin with is the "bear trap comment" That was the spark that lit the fire. Unless you've never seen one before, i can't image how it could be mistaken for anything else. Also, I own my own childishness for posting my photo "emotion". It was totally tongue in cheek and i wanted to get a rise out of it as well as be humorous.


Wow! Really? The idea that the shape of the edging made me think of a bear trap offended you? Did you get the part about all that stuff down there drawing my attention away from the subject? And here it is again, "you don't know how it could be mistaken for anything else", you need to realize regardless of what you see, it's open to interpretation.



> In terms of solitude, if I polled 100 random people and asked what emotion this picture conveyed, I'd bet ya my Canon T1i that a majority would say sadness or loneliness. I was just taken back by the idea that this message was not conveyed to you. do you have children? Maybe this is only understood by those who have kids, maybe not. IDK.


You are still looking for an absolute "who is right". This will plague you.




> As I said before, maybe in the future you could swallow your pride just a bit and tell someone what is right, along with what is wrong.


 Swallow _my_ pride? What?

I will continue to comment how I see fit. 



> Also, is it that bad? Honestly? Is it better than JCpenny's or Sears, or the Picture people in the mall? you know, the commercial photography places.. It's not Professional, but it's certainly not the work of a simple point and shoot either, It's sharp, the white to black conversion is decent, and it obeys the rule of thirds. So what's really wrong with it outside of your "bear trap"? Compositionally speaking, it's valid.


 A technically perfect and compositionally "valid" image doesn't make it successful. I gave you my opinion. Do with it what you wish. In the end, if you are happy with it, is really all that matters. You will never please everyone, and that should be OK. 



> I would like to add, I do apologize for deleting my replies and would like to further extend this apology for my other behavior as an end to the bickering.


I'll accept your apology, and I can assure you, there will be no more bickering from me.


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## mindfloodz

> I will continue to comment how I see fit.



It would just help us newcomers out a lot to know what's right as well as what's wrong. 



> I'll accept your apology, and I can assure you, there will be no more bickering from me.



Thank you


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## Bynx

If its ok to discuss the original posted pic I shall do so with hesitation. First off I dont like it. Generally speaking I dont like B&W. Its ok for an aged or timeless image, but I especially dont like it with kids. Thats just me. Secondly while the pic is a nice mixture of textures I really didnt know what I was looking at initially. The road looks like water and the farside curb looks like the weedy edge of a small lake or river. There is no conveyance of lonely. I guess that comes from what you see in the pic based on personal experiences. My experience is when photographing kids some dont want to and will turn their back for some extra attention. Being brat comes to mind but not saying your child is this. Its just how I perceive her posture in the setting. There isnt very much to say positively in the original pic. No sense saying lousy pic but great fstop and shutter speed. Its not a lousy shot, but just doesnt do anything for me. World of difference with your color post. Now I can see its a street scene and its paved road, not river and curb instead of weeds. It seems you did some cloning in the background of the B&W. That might account for the difficulty seeing what the image is. Now as far as everything Ive said its all my own personal opinion. You can take it for what its worth. If it helps you fine. If you dont like it tough. Anyone who posts a pic has to be thick skinned enough to accept whatever gets said like it or not. My mood changes throughout the day and night. Sometimes a post just tickles me to no end and I just love it. Some make my eyes water because they are so breathtaking. And some just piss me off because some guy thinks they are absolutely fantastic and in reality I can think of the minutes that are gone that I can never get back having wasted my time looking at them. Nothing is ever personal until someone else makes it personal. Then you have the goings on like you have with Bitter Jeweler and Manheim. I know it really hurts at times when someone shoots a shot you post, one you really like. But it will happen a lot. As long as the comments are made about the pic and not made to you personally then you can either ignore the comment or say thank you and move on. One thing you might try is to check the posts by someone who pisses you off. See if its what they do or if you are just reading the wrong thing in what they are trying to say. And keep in mind that the fun is taking the pics and not listening to the BS of a bunch of strangers whose life is sitting at their computers spitting out verbal diarrhea.


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## o hey tyler

OP, you severely overreacted to C&C. Bitter's first post wasn't even REMOTELY CLOSE to being offensive, or calling your image "bad". Personally, the image doesn't do much for me either, but I can't add anything that hasn't been covered. Images can be composed well and obey the rule of thirds... Heck they can even be properly exposed, but if the subject is uninteresting or lacking focus or meaning, the photo won't appeal to a wide audience. 

I'm glad you got this 'worked out', but please try and don a thicker skin next time you post for C&C. :thumbup:


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## mindfloodz

Thank you Bynx, this is the kind of critique I value! Tough, but constructive. helpful to what i am doing right, (sharpness and f/stop), but critical of what you dislike. I appreciate your understanding of why I tok it personally, it can happen, as I will try to curb my personal feelings in the future as well as person attachments to my work that i want critiqued. Thanks again for the feedback


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## Provo

Bitter Jeweler said:


> Provo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bitter Jeweler said:
> 
> 
> 
> *What if I don't care for HDR photography? Notice I don't go over there and critique them?   *
> *I was speaking to the challenges that you specifically brought up.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A simple search for your username and HDR section polls up the following.
> Two of which where actually nice comments on two of my images which I thank you for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yay! My own posting history proved you wrong. :lmao:
Click to expand...


Calm down there sport don't go around patting yourself on the back that fast you did say you don't go in there to critique which what I showed was proven you have been in there. :scratch:Yes you made two positive comments              :thumbup:I haven't taken the time to find all the negative ones nor will I do that. Has the war ended? Can I go kiss the pretty girl now?
Sometimes a little drama goes along way it seems you both squared it off good for both of you BitterJeweler as previously stated I do apologize for calling you out like that and calling you names.


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## manaheim

Oh my head.

Seriously.


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## manaheim

mindfloodz said:


> manaheim said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's not worth getting too much into it, but I just wanna say I disagree with pretty much every damned thing Provo said and I think Bitter is a stand-up guy.
> 
> People on this damn forum are such a crack up. They want to post asking for critique, but then tell the people critiquing what is and is not acceptable when the critique is being delivered. That's kind of like asking a car mechanic to tell you what is wrong with your car, but telling him he's not allowed to open the hood or make any references to motor oil during the process.
> 
> If you're going to make the assumption that someone may know more than you about how to improve something, you may also want to make the assumption that they know more than you do about how to deliver the information.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Opening the hood and telling someone what's wrong with their vehicle is one thing, but to tell them they should have purchased a Caddy versus a Ford is another story. Then you go on to tell them their car doesn't have the type of interior you like, because you prefer cloth to leather, so it's a piece of crap. Oh and BTW I hate your paint job too!!! I prefer red to blue. Oh and them rims you put on your car, they are Ghetto and make you look like your trying to be in a music video.. etc.. I could go on and on.
> 
> Anyhow, the point is, to hold every single member to a standard as high as a professional is a bit counter-productive.Not everyone has professional experience under their belt. It's a bit disheartening and honestly very unmotivating after receiving such a harsh critique. If you're gonna give someone a critique, rather than completely ripping the picture in two, try to ATLEAST tell them what they are doing right, as well as doing wrong
> 
> . I believe many people come on here that think their sh!t smells sweeter than most and just tears down everyone's work except for their little cliques. Those clicks sit around in a circle and pat each other on the back. That's how I've see it. I've done a little digging.
> 
> Honestly, I'd prefer you not comment on my work at all if you have nothing to say that will lets me know what I'm doing right as well as wrong. I don't want kittens and teddy bears, but I'm just starting out, and I have people telling me one thing and then I got people telling me another. Who do I believe? I don't know who is right and who is wrong. It's very confusing to say the least.
> 
> it's like having the expectations of a college student from someone in junior high. It's just not gonan happen unless they are some sort of child prodigy. I don't claim my work is great, but i don't think it's quite as bad as the three of you have made it out to be. I belong to 4+ forums, and this is the only place I received such harsh criticism. Majority rules, or I've been lead to believe.
Click to expand...

 
Again, you're telling me how, what and when to critique. 

You say to tell you what worked and what didn't... what if that's not the way I provide critique? What if I've found that to be generally worthless and distracting... like "the exposure is nice, but the composition needs this or that". That's really kinda hogwash, IMO... it's just saying something nice to "soften the blow", and I think it's a total waste of time for everyone. If your exposure is nice but the composition isn't great, the picture isn't great. Period.

If you're not good at the area in question, you're not going to be qualified to tell someone else how to teach it to you.  Period.

And no one here really said "I HATE IT! IT SUCKS!" ... they commented on distractions, how her looking away left them without a sense of the emotion, etc.

You're telling me not to critique your work? How do you do that exactly? It's a public forum. 

In the end, it's a picture you like and you're defending it because you like it and you don't have the internal strength to like it even when people say it's not a good image.  Get over this.  Some pictures you will take will have meaning to YOU and not to others and that is WAY ok... MANY of these will be pics of your kids.  I have TONS of them.  Hell, I have some that I consider very artistic that I LOVE and absolutely no one gets.  I still have them printed and framed because I love them.  Maybe I'm working on another wave length and no one "gets me" or no one will until after I die and I become super famous... or maybe some of my stuff is just "meh" to anyone except me.  Whatever.  It doesn't really matter.  I think that's what you need to wrap your mind around.  SOME pictures are going to be just for your enjoyment and that's TOTALLY ok.

Anyway, I'm going to move on from this foolishness now. 

Good luck.


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