# And now for some seriously weak sauce



## SquarePeg (Sep 25, 2016)

Here are some of the missed focus/exposure failures that I mentioned in the Birds thread that I'm looking for advice on.  Using Tamron 70-300 VC (the newest version) and 7100, shooting in Manual at f/5.6 - f/11, 1/1000, Auto ISO, AF-C, CL.  Was seriously disappointed in these.  Maybe my expectations were too high or more likely my technique and knowledge of my AF system need work.

1.  Missed focus despite my camera showing the red focus square directly on the head.  Also it's a bit of a heavy crop since I couldn't get any closer.



Ipswich_7008_edited-1 by SharonCat..., on Flickr   

2.  Not really sharp, needed significant shadow and black adjustments depsite using spot metering on the bird and Auto ISO.  What am I doing wrong as far as exposure goes?



Ipswich_7016_edited-3 by SharonCat..., on Flickr

3.  Not sharp and poorly exposed.  Needed to lighten shadows and bump exposure quite a bit, added sharpening.  Strangely, when I view this one in camera there is no red focus square so does that mean focus never locked?  The Tamron was hunting for focus quite a bit when we were in shade like in this shot.



Ipswich_7018_edited-1 by SharonCat..., on Flickr

4.  This one took off right as I hit the shutter.  If I am using Af-C and locked on shouldn't the AF track him and stay focused?  I really need to better understand my AF system!  Up until now most of my shooting is stationary objects or landscapes with the occasional posed person thrown in.  Any resource recommended for learning more about how the AF should work?  



Ipswich_6965_edited-1 by SharonCat..., on Flickr

Any advice or critique of my settings would be greatly appreciated!  Thanks.


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## robbins.photo (Sep 25, 2016)

Your camera will pick a focus point from all of the ones available usually based on contrast.  So if your shooting into a cluttered background you'll find yourself missing focus more often.  Decreasing the number of focus points available to the camera usually solves this issue nicely.  On the 7100 for shots like these I'd usually use one.  That way I knew exactly what the focal point would be, then I'd just shoot a little wide and crop in post for desired composition.

You can also try 9 points if that is a little easier..  With a bit of practice though I found in most situations I preferred just the one

Sent from my N9518 using Tapatalk


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## SquarePeg (Sep 25, 2016)

robbins.photo said:


> Your camera will pick a focus point from all of the ones available usually based on contrast.  So if your shooting into a cluttered background you'll find yourself missing focus more often.  Decreasing the number of focus points available to the camera usually solves this issue nicely.  On the 7100 for shots like these I'd usually use one.  That way I knew exactly what the focal point would be, then I'd just shoot a little wide and crop in post for desired composition.
> 
> You can also try 9 points if that is a little easier..  With a bit of practice though I found in most situations I preferred just the one
> 
> Sent from my N9518 using Tapatalk



Thanks.  I use single point AF-S for just about everything but thought I needed something else for wildlife.


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## smoke665 (Sep 25, 2016)

I may be wrong but if you're leaving your ISO on auto aren't you allowing it the ability to compensate for ambient light around your subject? Even with the meter set to spot, at a distance  that spot could be a pretty large area.


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## SquarePeg (Sep 25, 2016)

smoke665 said:


> I may be wrong but if you're leaving your ISO on auto aren't you allowing it the ability to compensate for ambient light around your subject? Even with the meter set to spot, at a distance  that spot could be a pretty large area.



Could be rabbit, could be...

I almost always use Auto ISO when I'm shooting manual with inconsistent light conditions.  I've run into lots of noise before but never such underexposed shots.


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## zombiesniper (Sep 25, 2016)

Agree with Mr. Robbins.
The only time I use more than one focus point is flying birds with an uncluttered background.

On the issue of focus point being on the head and missing focus. This is a 2 fold problem. First the focus point depiction in the view finder may or may not be exactly where it really is in real life. Add to this that from the first pic I'm betting the focus point is a bit larger than the thickness of the head of the heron. This can cause focusing issues as well.

For the heron pic it's an easy solution. Single focus point and aim at the neck where it meets the body since the head is on the same plane.

Pic 2. If I look dead centre of the frame (where most spot metering looks) that area is significantly brighter than the bird which will in turn under expose the bird.

Pic 3. Unsure but guessing focus failed.

Pic 4. If in a continuous AF mode (sorry Canon guy) then yes it will try to continue tracking. If using more than one focus point in cluttered frame like this one it's hit and miss. If you are on single focus point the tracking will be better.

I can't comment on the lens quality since I've never used one.
Hope this helps.


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## SquarePeg (Sep 25, 2016)

zombiesniper said:


> Agree with Mr. Robbins.
> The only time I use more than one focus point is flying birds with an uncluttered background.
> 
> On the issue of focus point being on the head and missing focus. This is a 2 fold problem. First the focus point depiction in the view finder may or may not be exactly where it really is in real life. Add to this that from the first pic I'm betting the focus point is a bit larger than the thickness of the head of the heron. This can cause focusing issues as well.
> ...



Thanks for the detailed response, very helpful.
#1 great tip about aiming for the neck, so used to trying to hit the eye that it never occured to me to do anything else.
#2 should I be using matrix metering or some other way to get this to meter on my subject and not the background?
#3.  That one annoys me. Took 10 frames of that bird and not one nailed the focus.
#4  that's a good tip about the uncluttered background.

Appreciate the help!


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## smoke665 (Sep 25, 2016)

You mentioned your AF was doing a lot of hunting. Any chance your lens has a focus limiter and are you using it. It's a little more work and hard to do without a tripod but I use live view 10x and manual focus, especially in low contrast or shade.


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## coastalconn (Sep 25, 2016)

zombiesniper said:


> Agree with Mr. Robbins.
> 
> 
> Pic 2. If I look dead centre of the frame (where most spot metering looks) that area is significantly brighter than the bird which will in turn under expose the bird.


On Nikon cameras, spot metering is linked to the focus point... I exclusively use spot metering in all of my images.


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## ronlane (Sep 25, 2016)

coastalconn said:


> zombiesniper said:
> 
> 
> > Agree with Mr. Robbins.
> ...



Do what Christopher says. He knows birds and both camera systems (Canon and Nikon).


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## coastalconn (Sep 25, 2016)

SquarePeg said:


> Here are some of the missed focus/exposure failures that I mentioned in the Birds thread that I'm looking for advice on.  Using Tamron 70-300 VC (the newest version) and 7100, shooting in Manual at f/5.6 - f/11, 1/1000, Auto ISO, AF-C, CL.  Was seriously disappointed in these.  Maybe my expectations were too high or more likely my technique and knowledge of my AF system need work.


Here are my thoughts...  I can't fully see the exif.
#1 Looks like you tripped the shutter before VC settled in.  The background has a really strange look to it like the elements were shifting to stabilize.  I almost never shoot with VR on with my 500 F4.  I turn it off at anything over 1/1000th.  For a static shot like this I would probably drop the shutter speed down to 1/500th unless you think the Heron is going to fly.
#2 Exposure Compensation is your friend.  For birds in shadows like this shoot at +1 to start and check your histogram.  Turn on the blinkies so you can quickly see if you are blowing highlights.  Again 1/500th would have been adequate for this shot.  I would have probably dropped it down even lower based on the light. 
#3 The camera focused in front of the bird on the tree.  In this type of shot I would use single point.  again Exposure comp with spot metering.  
#4 Even with the D500 when a small bird takes off like that it would be almost impossible to track.  (once in awhile I can).  If the bird happens to take off parallel to the camera and the shutter speed is around 1/2500th you might be able to catch it.

When I shot with the D7100, I always shot manual with auto-iso and exposure compensation.  I always left A3 set to medium or higher.  I actually used 51 point alot for my flying Osprey.  Most other birds in flight I used 9 point.  Hope that helps...


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## astroNikon (Sep 26, 2016)

SquarePeg said:


> Thanks.  I use single point AF-S for just about everything but thought I needed something else for wildlife.


Just making sure you are using AFC-S.
AutoFocus Continuous - Single Point  (or d9, etc)

I've found the AF systems on the d600 and d750 (an advanced AF version of what is in the d7100/7200) to be different when it comes to contrast detection.   So I've learned to shoot slightly differently between the two systems.  The one on the d750 being more accurate in higher contrast situations, whereas the d600 was better in lower contrast situations at center point.  which is also related to how much of the point the image covers and it's contrast to the background.

But as mentioned above, if you aim focus at the head, in a heavily cropped image, the head is a small part of that focus point.  The AF may pick something behind it instead for better contrast.  So best to go for a larger part near the body area.  At least that's what I've learned.  I used to shoot mainly at the head even when the bird is a small part of the entire frame.  And I would miss focus (d7000,d600) So I shot at the larger part of the bird. and had a larger success rate.  I haven't tried birding on my d750 yet, it may be more successful.

This book did wonders in learning every thing about my Nikon d7000, AF system etc.   when I had it and it's available for the d7100. Of course, it's relevant to most other modern Nikons too ==> https://www.amazon.com/Mastering-Nikon-D7100-Darrell-Young/dp/193753832X


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## SquarePeg (Sep 26, 2016)

astroNikon said:


> SquarePeg said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks.  I use single point AF-S for just about everything but thought I needed something else for wildlife.
> ...



Thanks for the recommendation of the book.  I've had the 7100 for almost a year and still struggling with understanding the AF system.   I had something similar when I first got my 5100 and it was very useful so this may be just what I need.


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## SquarePeg (Sep 26, 2016)

astroNikon said:


> ust making sure you are using AFC-S.
> AutoFocus Continuous - Single Point (or d9, etc)



I believe I was using AFC with D21.  

What are everyone's thoughts on Focus lock or whatever that option is called?  Do you set your shutter to allow you to take the shot without focus lock?


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## astroNikon (Sep 26, 2016)

Many will use the back button for a focus lock, and the front button for release.

I use my release button for Focus Lock and Release (no change)
and the back button for Focus Lock (and Exposure Lock - AF-L/AE-L) to prevent Continuous Focus or remetering.


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## SquarePeg (Sep 26, 2016)

astroNikon said:


> Many will use the back button for a focus lock, and the front button for release.
> 
> I use my release button for Focus Lock and Release (no change)
> and the back button for Focus Lock (and Exposure Lock - AF-L/AE-L) to prevent Continuous Focus or remetering.





astroNikon said:


> Many will use the back button for a focus lock, and the front button for release.
> 
> I use my release button for Focus Lock and Release (no change)
> and the back button for Focus Lock (and Exposure Lock - AF-L/AE-L) to prevent Continuous Focus or remetering.



I think the option I am trying (very ineptly) to ask about is shutter release vs focus release?  I currently have it set at shutter priority.  As for BBF, I have read a bit about it but have not tried it yet.


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## smoke665 (Sep 26, 2016)

astroNikon said:


> I've found the AF systems on the d600 and d750 (an advanced AF version of what is in the d7100/7200) to be different when it comes to contrast detection.



It's my understanding that Nikon, Pentax and others use two different methods of auto focus, depending on if you're using the view finder, or live view screen. In the view finder "Phase detection" is used, while Live View uses "Contrast Detection". Continuous-Servo AF, (AF-C), will maintain continuous focus on a moving object, but can't be relied on to provide sharp focus because of the lag time between when the shutter is released and the picture is actually taken. Which is why most use a "predictive focus" to calculate the correct focus point on a moving object, and as we all know each manufacturer "has the best method of obtaining that point".


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## Destin (Sep 26, 2016)

Plenty of technical advice abounds in this thread, I won't try to expand upon it.

However it should be noted that slower lenses, like the one you're shooting with, tend to focus hunt more because they allow less light into the camera body. AF systems perform better when they get as much light as possible. Now, the setting you choose for aperture is irrelevant because in modern DSLRs with electronic aperture control the blades remain wide open while focusing and only close down to take the shot. This means that even set to f/11,  your camera is focusing through the lens at f/5. 6 and then stopping down for the photo. 

All this to say that using a lens with a maximum aperture of 5.6, you're essentially putting handcuffs on your camera's AF system. The focus system in your camera is modern and more than capable of keeping up. There is a reason the pros use 2.8 or faster glass when possible, even if they're shooting stopped down. Not only do faster lenses let more light in, but they tend to have more powerful and therefore faster AF motors as well.


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## SquarePeg (Sep 26, 2016)

Destin said:


> Plenty of technical advice abounds in this thread, I won't try to expand upon it.
> 
> However it should be noted that slower lenses, like the one you're shooting with, tend to focus hunt more because they allow less light into the camera body. AF systems perform better when they get as much light as possible. Now, the setting you choose for aperture is irrelevant because in modern DSLRs with electronic aperture control the blades remain wide open while focusing and only close down to take the shot. This means that even set to f/11,  your camera is focusing through the lens at f/5. 6 and then stopping down for the photo.
> 
> All this to say that using a lens with a maximum aperture of 5.6, you're essentially putting handcuffs on your camera's AF system. The focus system in your camera is modern and more than capable of keeping up. There is a reason the pros use 2.8 or faster glass when possible, even if they're shooting stopped down. Not only do faster lenses let more light in, but they tend to have more powerful and therefore faster AF motors as well.



Thanks for the detailed response, great info. If I had a long 2.8 lens is be using it. Unfortunately, it's not in the cards anytime soon so I'm trying to make the most of what I have.


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## Destin (Sep 27, 2016)

SquarePeg said:


> Destin said:
> 
> 
> > Plenty of technical advice abounds in this thread, I won't try to expand upon it.
> ...




Fair enough. I'm right there with you actually, just wanted to let you know that you may find yourself limited in AF ability because of that fact. 

If and when you're ready you can find sigma 70-200 ex dg HSM II lenses for around $500 on eBay. I've owned two of them in the past and they're solid for the money. If you sold your current glass you could offset the cost significantly.


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