# Why do people leave?



## The_Traveler (Sep 21, 2007)

Virtually every on-line forum, photographic or not, has an active contingent that is much, much smaller than the official 'number of members.'  [From a quick look at several member rolls, my guess is that the a graph of the posts by member would look like a poisson distribution.]

I have always been curious why other people have chosen to leave forums when they have.  Since I can't poll the people who have left TPF, altho that might be a good idea as a method to direct improvement of this site, I am asking you why you have left where you no longer are.

So, how many have you left?
Why did you leave?
Are you still active at all?
How can we keep good people here?


----------



## TheLostPhotographer (Sep 21, 2007)

I usually get banned before I get bored!

I still read other forums I don't post on and read here regularly even if I don't post to often. However, it's the nature of forums that they can be very repetative. I also dislike forums that turn into places to post very average photography looking for false praise. Much sooner see constructive criticism.


----------



## SYKES3 (Sep 21, 2007)

I'm very new here.  I came here looking for specific information.  Photography comes in third on my list of needs.  It is a necessity for my other art.  I have only been on three other forums before.  Haven't completely left any of them.  Although the main reason I don't return to them much is a lack of participation.  Not enough artists to talk to.  

I haven't been here long enough to connect with anyone yet but I hope I can find someone who knows about lighting and what to consider in a camera to photograph my other art.  Mainly studio, close up photography.

I am always nervous about asking the redundant questions, but that's what would hold me here...getting answers.  SYKES3


----------



## Jon, The Elder (Sep 21, 2007)

I spent a lot of time here:
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/index.php

A Canon exclusive forum. 

Over a period of time you see the very same (slightly reworded) questions come up regular as clockwork. After a while my answers got shorter and less enthusiastic.
Some hotshot newbies love to show off information they got the week before from a previous inquiry.
Others just love to find fault with previous comments and use it as a excuse to expound and criticise the responder.

Answers in the vein of "I don't have that lens, but a friend of my brother in law, says it sucks" really bugs me.

After a while it just gets plain boring. 
The argument is that to each OP it is an "original" question and should be treated as such, no matter how bad the spelling, grammar, lack of details. 
I'm sorry, if a OP hasn't spent at least some effort to find the answer, then I get impatient and sometimes blunt in my response.

I hang around here and hope that I can throw in answers that reflect my experiences and gear knowledge (Canon) in hopes that it will do some good overall. I still find the site interesting enough to participate.

If I don't get kicked off for not being "politically correct" or nice and polite, I'll probably move on and never be missed. After 40+ years in and around the craft, its not all that important to me.


----------



## Mesoam (Sep 21, 2007)

i'm part of a few other forums and there definitely tends to be a group of consistent posters on every forum...then there are people who just forget or don't care anymore...or they register just to get access to certain portions and don't really ever post


----------



## teachflute (Sep 21, 2007)

I am still very much a lurker trying to pick up tips and ideas.  I would consider my abilities to be at an intermediate level.  When people ask questions, I sometimes will respond, but more often than not I wait to hear the other responses to make sure what I would say is accurate.  I'm finding that the more I read, the more I learn and the more confident I'm feeling to offer critique or advice.  I have a feeling there are alot of people out there like m.


----------



## Mike_E (Sep 21, 2007)

I stop by where ever there are posters whom I enjoy reading.  Should a forum become dull or argumentative or (gasp) pompous, I move along.  

Getting a new POV on something, or giving one, is just a bonus.


----------



## D-50 (Sep 21, 2007)

The forums get very repetative with people asking "what camera should I buy" or "what do you think f this photo its my first with my new camera"  I feel forums get overrun by people new to photography who want to learn, thats fine but unfortunatly for people here who know the basics its boring also I feel bad for members like Big Mike or Digital MAtt, they have effectivly become teachers on this forum.  I guess they like passing on advice but how many times do they need to explain things like DOF and what a lens hood is used for before they too become bored and leave.

I agree with the false praise statement as well. People post avergae pics and then numerous people reply "wow great shgot" or "fantastic I wish I could take photos like that"  In reality the photo was poorly concieved, poorly framedand slightly out of focus but those comments are rarely heard.  Back to Difgital Matt I love his honest critismof these type of posts and I can sense frustration in many of his posts.  Big Mike on the other hand seems to have more patients, with out these two and a couple more Sw1tch comes to mind this forum would be full of people praising poor quality photos.  

It would be nice to have an forum where not just professionals but people who understand the basics and do not need hand holding could post work for honest critism and discuss techniques, equiptment..etc.  No newbies allowed.

Bottom line there are just too many newbs on here again which is fine and a great way to learn but it offers little to people who understand sensor size vs megapixels,  dof, framing, lens hoods etc.   

My 2 Cents


----------



## The_Traveler (Sep 21, 2007)

Is it inevitable that people will become bored with one place and move on?


----------



## skieur (Sep 21, 2007)

One element is the moderators.  I would say it should be a good mix of very experienced photographers through to some less experienced but the less experienced should at least be willing to learn and not take offence at a thorough critique of their work.  One board (not this one)had, for moderators, a sixteen year old , a 20 year old with only 1 year of photo experience and a couple of pros with experience that was limited and narrow in scope.  The main administrator was a biker.  Need I say more.

Another main element is that the board administrator(s) and moderators need to have in mind a perceived direction for the board, since moderator participation on the board will be a strong controlling factor.  What should the mix be between newbies to photography and the very experienced?  Too many newbies and the very experienced move on.  If that happens, then the newbies will not be getting the kind of assistance and knowledge that they come to the board for.  The moderators control this factor too, either intentionally or inadvertently.

Whether the guidelines are being followed and enforced/pointed out or not.  Multiple photos discourage all but very limited comments.  Comments that are vague to the point of being photographically meaningless such as "I like it." etc.  Obvious and necessary follow-up.. WHY do you like it? and Why do I even have to ask this question?  Then there are comments that amount to: "I like over-exposed, blurred photos with colour balance problems and large areas with no detail."  Obvious thought comes to mind: "Why are you on any photographic forum?" A lot of this kind of thing, tells the very experienced that they should be looking for a new site with more experienced photographers.

The level of experience on the site is another factor.  Beginners for example will get limited and perhaps even incorrect help from other beginners.  The very experienced don't mind helping beginners...to a point.
They don't want to be constantly repeating and explaining what should be extremely basic and obvious and particularly the difference between Basic Photography Techniques 101 and personal subjective opinion.

It is a challenge for the moderators and administrator to try and deal with these issues as well as with members who vary from those with their first new camera to those with half a century of professional work in all areas of photography and videography.  I don't envy the moderators, their tasks and recognize that here at least they put one heck of a lot of serious work and effort into their roles.

skieur


----------



## zendianah (Sep 21, 2007)

I know why I have stopped posting as much. I have 3 kids and take care of a sick mother in law. When I get a chance to work on the computer I am either fixing and proccessing photos. I love this forum. This is the only one I am on. I have learned so much. Still am learning..


----------



## JDS (Sep 21, 2007)

The_Traveler said:


> Is it inevitable that people will become bored with one place and move on?



Only if there's never any new content in that one place.

I ride a motorcycle (When I have good tires..but that's another story ), and there's a motorcycle forum that I'll jump on now and again.  But it's mostly when I need to find something.  If it can't be found there, I know there are people there that have the answers.

One thing that I think helps this place is the contests, challenges, etc.  It sort of keeps things a little more 'fresh'.  But only if people participate - I'm guilty there.

I've also found that if a person invests time/effort/energy into a place, (as opposed to your posts consisting entirely of "that's cool!") you tend to stick around as it becomes a part of you in a way.  Sounds cheesy, I know, but I don't know how else to put it.


----------



## sabbath999 (Sep 21, 2007)

I have left forums for several reasons... I recently left a forum that I had thousands of posts on because it had become increasingly political & religious... instead of personal finances (which is what it is stated to be)... and people were intolerant of other views. 

I also left a forum where I had thousands of posts (a bicycling forum)because of poor moderation (a bunch of immature jerks took over and started flaming everybody, or making stupid comments).

I LOVE TPF because it has neither of these problems, and you can see by the green **TPF Subscriber** line under my name that I put my money where my mouth is... I would encourage everybody who posts regularly here to financially support TPF as well.


----------



## mentos_007 (Sep 21, 2007)

simply...because of the people and the atmospheare... Here I know a few people personally and I like to be here...


----------



## gmarquez (Sep 21, 2007)

Jon said:


> Over a period of time you see the very same (slightly reworded) questions come up regular as clockwork. After a while my answers got shorter and less enthusiastic.



Bingo.  Plus, sometimes excessive forum posting takes the place of "real" social interaction.  When I'm spending more time "in the real world", I tend to check forums only about once a week (here included).


----------



## JHF Photography (Sep 21, 2007)

Traveler, I can't answer most of your questions, as I'm still fairly new here myself.  I have not been a part of other forums, so I don't know why I would leave a forum if I did.

However, what I can say is that as to how this forum can keep good people here, I think it's on the right track.  I have checked out a number of other photography forums, and found this to be (in my opinion) one of the best out there.  Many of the people here are very friendly and welcoming, and that's one the things that drew me here.

I think Skieur was bang on in his post about the roll of mods here in keeping the board fresh and active.  It's important to me, as a member of this board, to know that when things get out of hand or inappropriate, they will step in and do something about it.


----------



## Garbz (Sep 21, 2007)

I like it here. And it interests me. But if you look at the vast majority of the userbase here (actually it would be interesting if the site admin could come up with the actual statistics here) you will most likely find that most of our registered members have either 1 post (spam advertising etc), <10 posts (ask one question and leave when satisfied), or no posts at all and just troll around, god knows what they need the account for.

Same happens to every online forum. I fully agree with the poisson distribution. If you include all users the alpha would be incredibly small though.


----------



## JHF Photography (Sep 21, 2007)

The Traveler said:
			
		

> (From a quick look at several member rolls, my guess is that the a graph of the posts by member would look like a poisson distribution.)





			
				Garbz said:
			
		

> I fully agree with the poisson distribution. If you include all users the alpha would be incredibly small though.


 
What the heck is a poisson distribution!?

(Sounds a little fishy to me....... )


----------



## Chris of Arabia (Sep 21, 2007)

I don't think I ever truly leave a forum, but at last count I was registered on 14 different ones, covering: photography, sport, various music related stuff, product manufacturers, computer, and one that is wholly unmoderated and can best be described as a place where you can go for a rant.

There's only one that I don't ever post on now, and is actually run by someone I sat next to at school - the tone of the place just doesn't sit comfortably with me.


----------



## BEvaristo (Sep 21, 2007)

I'm pretty new to TPF and to photography as well.  I'm more of a lurker right now trying to absorb as much information as I can.  I try to do as much research on my own as I can before I bother anyone with a question they may have seen hundreds of times.  That handy search button seems to do the trick pretty well 99% of the time.  I'm a member of another forum related to flying.  I am pretty young in my flying hobby as well so again, I'm there mostly to learn.  I can learn so much from the pros on both forums.  It's the same thing over there with the same questions being asked time and time again.  The moderator there has put up a FAQ link on the main page and anytime anyone asks a question that can be answered there, the main contributors to that site do a good job of informing the OP they can find the answer in the FAQ's and if they have any further questions, they can come back and ask them.  

I don't have anywhere near the amount of knowledge needed to reply to most questions or to critique anyone yet.  I know my photos aren't great yet, but they are getting better thanks to reading many of the responses to other pictures then analyzing my own.  Once I have something I think is somewhat decent, I'll post them.  Until then, I'll keep reading and learning and attempting to apply that to my own photos.

All in all, I think this is a great site.  The repetitive questions do get old very fast and I admire the patience some of you have with answering them over and over.  

As for leaving, I would think that some of the members may have not stuck with the hobby.  They were gung ho about it in the beginning, came here to learn, then another hobby came along or maybe other circumstances in their life prevents them from being able to follow through the way they had originally wanted to.  This is pure speculation, as I haven't left a forum, yet.


----------



## (Ghastly) Krueger (Sep 21, 2007)

I'm only a member of this forum and one more.

The other forum is HUGE and currently I don't have time (or interest) to visit all it's sections, but when I had just joined I posted all over the place until I found the sections I liked more. Maybe to the people who only visit the sections where I don't go any more it seems like I left.

Even the sections that I like I've "left" for some time, due to boredom, lack of interest, reading the same **** again and again and "user clubs" where you have to fit to be in the loop... or be ingored.

I've temporarily left TPF due to lack of time and due to lack of replies to my requests for feedback on images. I took some time off to rethink some basics, came back with some changes.


----------



## LaFoto (Sep 21, 2007)

Sometimes, "life" comes into the way of online forums. Sometimes people get a bit "internet-weary". Sometimes the forum has served its function for member x and he's happy to move on. 

On here, many of those members who come and go in a wink are spammers. We make them "leave" by not giving them access for much longer than it takes us to remove their spam-posts. Others try to work their ways round our bannings and come up with new names over and again ... so be it. We simply ban also those.

Then there is the large number of members who join and still don't want to post anything. Well, with those also I wonder (same as garbz) why they registered at all? You can read as an "outsider" any time, there is no need to create an account.

And hey, I am one of those silly members who don't know what a poisson distribution is, but what I know is that out of the 16.000 registered members (at least one third of who got banned for spamming immediately) there are only about 300 who regularly post and also stay.

And some are very enthusiastic when they start out (my personal example for such kind of enthusiasm is our Member-of-the-Week feature where people asked to be put on the list, "pleeeease!"), only to never being around any more when it would have been their turn. But with many it is "life" that gets into the way. Which I find reassuring. For living one's life is more important than spending hours on the computer (says who often has to spend HOURS on TPF moderating away   ).


----------



## (Ghastly) Krueger (Sep 21, 2007)

Also I post less now because all those "Newbies come and give wrong advice". Or "I'd like a real critique" after I wrote something.

I guess I still "have to learn" before I can give my opinion


----------



## LaFoto (Sep 21, 2007)

When did that happen to you, that you wrote a comment and people then said in reply to your comment "I'd like a real critique", Krueger? I would not want you to leave, I expect you to at least stay on until you'll have been to the big North-Germany Meet-Up!!! 

ALL of you, that is!!! 
I still hope that our community here is so strong that that meet-up is going to be a really international and big thing (unheard of in the area). Stay and help me make it so!  (A bit of "most unselfish" hijacking, heehee. Sorry, Lew).


----------



## SYKES3 (Sep 21, 2007)

I think the long time members get tired of commenting on others photo work and get no reciprocation on theirs.  Old timers don't post their work a lot, you have to go to their sites to see what they are doing.  Most new photographers just show their work, get kudos and never even look or comment on anyone elses.  

I also find that those who do not fill out their profile page are often only here for a brief time.  (Not all)

I am a daily visitor to the sites I like.  I'm just getting a feel for this one.  So far I have encountered impatience.  But I do understand it.  It's been a long time since I was a beginner at something.  I think I'll be OK here, once I read some more and get to know some of you.  SYKES3


----------



## Mike_E (Sep 21, 2007)

The Poisson distribution arises in connection with Poisson processes. It applies to various phenomena of discrete nature (that is, those that may happen 0, 1, 2, 3, ... times during a given period of time or in a given area) whenever the probability of the phenomenon happening is constant in time or space. Examples of events that may be modeled as a Poisson distribution include:
The number of cars that pass through a certain point on a road (sufficiently distant from traffic lights) during a given period of time.
The number of spelling mistakes one makes while typing a single page.
The number of phone calls at a call center per minute.
The number of times a web server is accessed per minute.
The number of mutations in a given stretch of DNA after a certain amount of radiation.
*The "law of small numbers"*

 The word *law* is sometimes used as a synonym of probability distribution, and _convergence in law_ means _convergence in distribution_. Accordingly, the Poisson distribution is sometimes called the *law of small numbers* because it is the probability distribution of the number of occurrences of an event that happens rarely but has very many opportunities to happen.






Thank you Wikpedia!  :hail:


----------



## (Ghastly) Krueger (Sep 21, 2007)

LaFoto said:


> When did that happen to you, that you wrote a comment and people then said in reply to your comment "I'd like a real critique", Krueger?


 
Well, not directly quoted, but the message was there. Like I said I'm not leaving, just posting less until I feel comfortable making a better critique.


----------



## The_Traveler (Sep 21, 2007)

(Ghastly) Krueger said:


> I've temporarily left TPF due to lack of time and due to lack of replies to my requests for feedback on images.



On one previous forum (where I still post), I have a couple of 'friends' whom I can PM when I wanted/needed a critique and one or two sensible responses  usually encourages others. They of course can PM me for a starter response.

Anyone who reads this should feel perfectly free to ask me to comment; even tho LaFoto has said that all the real critics have left, I will try to fill in  with unreal  comments until  more qualified people come along.

RE: a Poisson distribution typically looks like this 
number of posts by number of users 

*





*


----------



## (Ghastly) Krueger (Sep 21, 2007)

The_Traveler said:


> On one previous forum (where I still post), I have a couple of 'friends' whom I can PM when I wanted/needed a critique and one or two sensible responses usually encourages others. They of course can PM me for a starter response.


 
Yep, I know I can count on that and I've done it in the past. Thanks, BTW.


----------



## The_Traveler (Sep 21, 2007)

(Ghastly) Krueger said:


> Yep, I know I can count on that and I've done it in the past.



Of course, you can't depend on the response to be intelligent, correct or polite.

:lmao::lmao:


----------



## Dagwood56 (Sep 21, 2007)

I come here everyday and read [lurk], but my photography skills are so rusty that I'm not comfortable posting comments on other's photos or answering questions. I feel TPF works smoothly and everyone seems to get along here.  As for other forums I belonged to and left - it was usually because of lack of response to postings and mostly because so many people got argumentative over some of the dumbest things and not just things I posted but to others as well. It's not enjoyable if you have to question every post you make for fear of others down right nasty remarks.


----------



## LokiZ (Sep 21, 2007)

I never leave forums completely... I take breaks.  Depends on what  my interests are at the time.  I belong to video forums, photography, web authoring, scrap booking, Programming. I'm sure there are others that escape me at the moment.  Oh yes 3d and and animation.

Sometimes in the middle of a project I want other opinions other times not.  Sometime I want to jump start my interest into a specific area again.  Sometimes I want to say hi to old friends or see what they have been up to.  All reasons for staying.  Each of you have your own.

Reasons for leaving?  Flamers?  Nope.  People who don't agree with me?  Nope. (live to argue, my moms side of the family) Bored?  Nope.  Only one reason I go on temporary vacation from a board.  My interests change and switch.  In this case not saying I stop taking pictures.  Just continue using what I know and plateau on the learning for awhile.

As to the statements concerning of false praise.  You are missing the point.  The point is not to C and C on others C n C.  The only one who has that job is the moderator and that is only if things get out of hand. 

Seriously though I would say repetition might be one reason people leave.  Also if they post and get no responses. (feel like they are invisible.)

Just my opinon.


----------



## RMThompson (Sep 21, 2007)

D-50 said:


> The forums get very repetative with people asking "what camera should I buy" or "what do you think f this photo its my first with my new camera" I feel forums get overrun by people new to photography who want to learn, thats fine but unfortunatly for people here who know the basics its boring also I feel bad for members like Big Mike or Digital MAtt, they have effectivly become teachers on this forum. I guess they like passing on advice but how many times do they need to explain things like DOF and what a lens hood is used for before they too become bored and leave.
> 
> I agree with the false praise statement as well. People post avergae pics and then numerous people reply "wow great shgot" or "fantastic I wish I could take photos like that" In reality the photo was poorly concieved, poorly framedand slightly out of focus but those comments are rarely heard. Back to Difgital Matt I love his honest critismof these type of posts and I can sense frustration in many of his posts. Big Mike on the other hand seems to have more patients, with out these two and a couple more Sw1tch comes to mind this forum would be full of people praising poor quality photos.
> 
> ...


 
I was going to write something very similar, but add that some rude people do ruin it as well.

But the thing that REALLY gets me... is when you offer sound advice, and you're ignored. Even if it's BAD advice, if someone comments on your posts, you should at least thank them for trying. 

My comments should be known as thread killers... noone respondes to me!

*sigh*


----------



## The_Traveler (Sep 21, 2007)

RMThompson said:


> . noone respondes to me!
> 
> *sigh*



yes, we do.


----------



## JHF Photography (Sep 21, 2007)

Mike_E said:


> The Poisson distribution arises in connection with Poisson processes. It applies to various phenomena of discrete nature (that is, those that may happen 0, 1, 2, 3, ... times during a given period of time or in a given area) whenever the probability of the phenomenon happening is constant in time or space. Examples of events that may be modeled as a Poisson distribution include:
> 
> The number of cars that pass through a certain point on a road (sufficiently distant from traffic lights) during a given period of time.
> The number of spelling mistakes one makes while typing a single page.
> ...


 
Ok...... I read that post..... and the link........ and I think I'm more confused than I was before.... LOL!!  A little to much math talk for me.



The_Traveler said:


> On one previous forum (where I still post), I have a couple of 'friends' whom I can PM when I wanted/needed a critique and one or two sensible responses usually encourages others. They of course can PM me for a starter response.
> 
> Anyone who reads this should feel perfectly free to ask me to comment; even tho LaFoto has said that all the real critics have left, I will try to fill in with unreal comments until more qualified people come along.
> 
> ...


 

THANK YOU!!!!!!  The picture makes it all better.

And for the record, I think your critiques are great.  I would welcome them on my pics (when I actually post some).


----------



## The_Traveler (Sep 21, 2007)

To digress, actually, I was interested in the rudeness issue. 
There seems to be a very fine line to tread.
I was on a Forum once that was mostly people from the UK - and they were so polite, I was always certain that I was offending someone by mentioning an obvious fault.
_
Lew: (upon seeing no image) you may have left your lens cap on.
OP: <silence>
Lew: I see no image
OP: <silence>
Lew: no image
OP: <silence>
Lew: no image, are you illiterate? has the person who reads to you gone home?

mod: excuse me, we believe that anyone has the right not to actually post the image for which one is soliciting critique.  It is only good taste not to mention it. 

Lew: well, how does one critique a picture we can't see?

Mod: we know his work and it is always good. So even if we can't see it, if he says it is a fine new shot, we take him at his word. 

Lew: since this is a photo site, shouldn't we  expect some sort of photo image to be shown.

mod:this is first and foremost a site for gentlepeople and since you clearly  cannot conform to these simple principles, we the moderator committee has asked me to invite you to bugger off.
_ 
That is about the time I came here.


----------



## zendianah (Sep 21, 2007)

What... ?  I respond to you.


----------



## JHF Photography (Sep 21, 2007)

RMThompson said:


> My comments should be known as thread killers... noone respondes to me!
> 
> *sigh*


 

You haven't killed this one yet! :lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## NJMAN (Sep 21, 2007)

The_Traveler said:


> To digress, actually, I was interested in the rudeness issue.
> There seems to be a very fine line to tread.
> I was on a Forum once that was mostly people from the UK - and they were so polite, I was always certain that I was offending someone by mentioning an obvious fault.
> 
> ...


 
And these people were serious??  This has to be one of the most hilarious online conversations I have ever seen...:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## jstuedle (Sep 21, 2007)

Trav, that is just TOOOO d@mn funny! I am afraid I would have to keep tweaking them until they banned all my I.P.'s. I think you were much more tolerant than I could have been, but then again I may have just had to have some fun at their expense.


----------



## gomexz (Sep 21, 2007)

I run my own forum,  I see that people leave due to being busy and just not having the time.  Its a small forum the those users usually come back.  But i have noticed on other forums as well that family jobs and school seem to be the reason they leave.


----------



## kundalini (Sep 21, 2007)

I can't even recall how I stumbled on this site to be honest.  I was researching for my first dSLR and interested on renewing long forgotten skills I once had with film.  I stayed in the shadows for a while before I opened an account.  Then thinking the only way I could post a photo was to become a paid subscriber, I put across my plastic.  Do I regret it?  Not in the least.  

The main reason this is the only forum I subscribe to or post on is because I fully trust that someone will call bull$h1+ when it is called for and the snappy comebacks.  I am guilty of asking a few stupid questions and posting some bad photos, but each time I have had the opportunity to learn.  That is why I stay.

I can't say that it's not because of my own self doubt, but something that has bothered me about my responses to posts.  I can only deduce that it is one of three reasons, but it seems that a higher percentage than not, once I make a response, the thread dies.  SO, am I a kill-joy, not worthy of further response or just the last comment made because of my grand insightfullness.  I don't know why it is, but I would like to be an active participant in this forum.  Yes, I'm new to this forum, new to digital photography, but not new to life by a long shot.

For me, reading all the above comments, has caused me to re-evaluate my responses to threads.  Instead of stating that #4 is my favorite, I will put more thought in explaining why #4 has left an impression on me.

One final thought.  The humor found on this forum is worth the price of admission.


----------



## The_Traveler (Sep 21, 2007)

kundalini said:


> SO, am I a kill-joy, not worthy of further response or just the last comment made because of my grand insightfullness.



All of us feel like that at some time.  The only way to  avoid dampening some threads is to never to say the awful truth. 



kundalini said:


> One final thought.  The humor found on this forum is worth the price of admission.



This compliment would be worth a lot more if it cost anything to be a member.


----------



## ilockert (Sep 21, 2007)

I tend to leave if the Kid population out grows the adult population which means when it becomes more e-thugs and e-bullies, Here i havent found that and I enjoy the site.
Most forums I experience the e-thugs is in the Automotive sites im a member at which are well theres a few of them. Once the information is gone no matter how much I try to help get it back I tend to disappear.

Now forums I enjoy I tend to fall off for a while when school work family and friends start taken up a big part of my free time. No offense to the admins of this board but real fun is way better then the net.


----------



## Mike Jordan (Sep 21, 2007)

As you can see by my join date, I joined up a couple of years ago and was pretty active.  Then I left.  Not because I got mad but because I didn't like the direction the site was going.  At the time there were so many posts that images, comments, dicussions etc., were getting buried so fast that nothing lasted. You couldn't have a long discussion (shoot, you couldn't have a dicussion more than 3 posts in the thread most of the time) because it went back behind the new stuff so fast that those in the thread forgot about it and you didn't get new comments since most people didn't go back more than a couple of pages in an area to see what had been posted.  Posted images dissappeared so fast you couldn't get comments on them, so it wasn't worth posting them.  I've never been one to bump a post just for the sake of bumping it... if everyone did that, it would just make things worse. 

I don't actually remember a lot of the details but I ran across the thread on here from a couple of years ago (8/1/05) where it finally came to a head for me where it seemed that it wasn't going to change or get better. So I left here.

I've been on a number of forums over the years. I've moderated a few (I'm still the only moderator of the site that use to be Zuga) and I've left for a variety of reasons.  Only a few have I left because the people, the moderators, the owner or all the above were down right idiots.  Some like others have said, I just lost interest in what was going on. Others had a interest in photographer that is different than mine. Some because my interests changed. 

I only recently (in the last couple of weeks) tripped back on this site. I was looking for a paticular type of photo technique in Google and happened to bring up an image I posted on here that used the same technique.  It took me a bit of searching of some old threads to bring back why I left. I forget sometimes why I just wonder away from a site unless there is a reason to remember.  Since some of the reasons I caused me to leave here seem to be less evident, I decided to stick around for a bit and she how much has changed, which I'm doing now.

Traveler, too answer your question, it's very common for a site to have a small number of members generate the majority of the traffic.  I've seen it where it's usually about 15 members generating 80%, 10 members another 10%, another 10 another 5% and a lot of people the other 5%.  A forum needs those core 10 or 15 members that generate a lot of comments to bring in the rest.   I've always found to be true in forums that a crowd does draw a crowd. If you don't have a certain amount of traffic, you don't attract new people that will generate more traffic. Even if you get a lot of drop bys that take a look, if you don't have the traffic to get their attention (even if they don't post that much) they won't stick around.  I've seen some very nice forums die because they never got past that level of critical mass or else they fell below the level needed to thrive.  And some of those posts have to be quality posts as well. Just quanity for quanity's sake won't keep the people you need to keep a site healthy.  You will just get posters that don't contribute.  It takes some work to keep a site healthy and keep it thriving.  The owner and moderators (if there are others besides the owner) are a big part of that. Also the quality of your core people.  

Mike


----------



## Puscas (Sep 21, 2007)

Traveler, thanks for post #36...:lmao:

as for leaving a forum...dunno, I think I would leave if I got really bored or frustrated, but that hasn't happend to me on TPF. 




pascal


----------



## JIP (Sep 21, 2007)

I think a majority of people come on ask a quick quetion (Insert rote everyday question here) get there question answered and move on.  They either buy that camera as a gift or get it fixed etc. etc......  I have recently done the same thing on a couple of forums ask a few questions and never post again.


----------



## ~Stella~ (Sep 21, 2007)

I have left a forum that I had 7k+ posts in because the owner/admin got to be unreasonable in not allowing members to speak their mind and were inconsistent in enforcing rules (which were not written down anyway and were changed at will).   

I have two forums that I am currently very active in and I intended to become more active in this one and learn more about the art, but I will probably only find time to lurk now. I have two kids 3 and under and I got THIS today, so, uh...I think I'm going to be a tad busy.

BTW, I don't need a critique on that one - I'm pretty please with the way it turned out.


----------



## The_Traveler (Sep 21, 2007)

Congratulations


----------



## DSLR noob (Sep 21, 2007)

I kinda like it. I'm all about a forum that doesn't have dead periods with no posts but if there are too many people that is WHEN I leave. I can't stand having to keep up with 3 pages of new threads per section a day. It just gets so overwhelming and mind blowing, I just go. I think the TPF has had th eperfect balance the entire time I've been here and I love the people and I like to think I've already contributed a lot to this forum.


----------



## SYKES3 (Sep 21, 2007)

STELLA!!!  I hope this is good news.  Congratulations!  SYKES3


----------



## m1a1fan (Sep 21, 2007)

I like to dig through these forums for tips and ideas related to photography. Maybe once in long while I'll post something. I'm not to interested in spending hours at the PC on chat rooms and forums.  

This is a great site though. Everyone seems friendly and the advice given on questions and pictures seems constructive.


----------



## ~Stella~ (Sep 21, 2007)

SYKES3 said:


> I hope this is good news.



Absolutely.  Thanks.  I think I'll be kicking what's left of my law practice to the curb as well.  

[/thread hijack]


----------



## kundalini (Sep 21, 2007)

kundalini said:


> One final thought. The humor found on this forum is worth the price of admission.


 


The_Traveler said:


> This compliment would be worth a lot more if it cost anything to be a member.


 
That was my feeble attempt at humor.  

I will likely employ irony, sarcasm or blew (sorry, that should have been "blue") humor.  I'm quite a likable bloke, you just have to disregard or accept the edges.  No 'arm meant.


----------



## patrickt (Sep 22, 2007)

The forums I've left I have normally left after a week or two. If I stay longer than that it's because the participants have something to offer me.  One of my pet peeves are people who want to socialize on every topic imaginable except photography.


----------



## itoncool (Sep 22, 2007)

I've been around to many places and ended up at 2 photography forums, 1 is here (TPF) and the other is a single brand forum.

I left one forum because, the members are too busy flaming each other instead of improving each other; I'm right and you're wrong, my system is the best and yours sucks, etc. 

Another forum because, the members are just chatting but don't have photography skill to share, they are nice but not what I'm looking for. 

Another forum because, the senior members are making themselves as the exclusive members that only talk to another exclusive members, the rest are not worthy to get response from them.

Another forum because, the moderators & senior members always say "Hey NEWBIE, we have through this thread long time ago, find the similar thread in the search engine!" 
Newbies are newbies, maybe they don't even know what is "search engine".

I don't see all of those reasons at TPF and for the #4, TPF is the best place, I know it's boring and tiring to explain the same thing over and over again, but the moderators & senior members in TPF do that! I've seen Big "heart" Mike sometimes write similar response to different OP. That means a lot to the OP.


----------



## The_Traveler (Sep 22, 2007)

itoncool said:


> Another forum because, the moderators & senior members always say "Hey NEWBIE, we have through this thread long time ago, find the similar thread in the search engine!"
> Newbies are newbies, maybe they don't even know what is "search engine".
> 
> I know it's boring and tiring to explain the same thing over and over again, but the moderators & senior members in TPF do that!



The unfortunate consequence of answering every Newbie question as if it had never been asked before is that it wastes a great deal of energy and talent. 

This same point has been made several times and each time, I suggest that the person who makes it actually do the work.

IMO, if a Newbie don't want to do a little work for him or herself, than he or she doesn't deserve membership.  I don't think that asking a Newbie to find the <Search> button is a high price for admittance.


----------



## elsaspet (Sep 22, 2007)

Now Traveler, you be nice.  You were a newbie once upon a time.


----------



## Mike_E (Sep 22, 2007)

The_Traveler said:


> The unfortunate consequence of answering every Newbie question as if it had never been asked before is that it wastes a great deal of energy and talent.
> 
> This same point has been made several times and each time, I suggest that the person who makes it actually do the work.
> 
> IMO, if a Newbie don't want to do a little work for him or herself, than he or she doesn't deserve membership.  I don't think that asking a Newbie to find the <Search> button is a high price for admittance.



One of the nice things about turnover is that the new people- once they have the drill down- get to pass on the collective knowledge of the site to the people who come after them and on ad infinitum.  The old hands, being the nice people they are, are supposed to step back and let them (until they get it wrong of course).


----------



## The_Traveler (Sep 22, 2007)

It occurs to me that everyone makes the assumption that some % of Newbies grow and stay with the Forum.

There is a little research study that we could do to  test this.

Select a bunch of people at random who have more than 50 posts.
Look at their first few posts and see if one or more was a typical newbie question.

Then look at a bunch of people who have  left after 5 or fewer posts and see if their posts were 'newbie' questions.

This would give some idea whether the effort put into answering newbie questions actually is good for the Forum or is just thrown away.


----------



## acaldwell (Sep 22, 2007)

well, i can't really say much sice i've only recently joined.  i've been pretty satisfied so far and plan to continue coming here.  btw... i stumbled upon this forum through a google search and haven't even looked at another one yet.  i was very happy with the ppl here... so don't leave me, please don't leave me now...hehe


----------



## Iron Flatline (Sep 22, 2007)

The only other community (spread across a collection of eight forums) that I've left is because it disintegrated. I spent about five years there (+5,000 posts) but it got to a point where it all fell apart. There was some fighting, and the smart people left. It was a 30-year-and-older Counter-Strike community. After some inspection and reflection, I decided that the remaining members were less intellectually stimulating that the crowd that originally got me there. 

I still miss playing as a well-trained team against other teams, with people that I know and trust not to cheat. It was a real thrill.

[CI] Iron Flatline {JUL} {CoFR}


----------



## Mike Jordan (Sep 22, 2007)

The_Traveler said:


> The unfortunate consequence of answering every Newbie question as if it had never been asked before is that it wastes a great deal of energy and talent.
> 
> This same point has been made several times and each time, I suggest that the person who makes it actually do the work.
> 
> IMO, if a Newbie don't want to do a little work for him or herself, than he or she doesn't deserve membership.  I don't think that asking a Newbie to find the <Search> button is a high price for admittance.



 Just like critiquing an image, there are a lot of ways to tell someone that is asking for help, just how to go find that help.  Not everyone has the social skills to be able to do either one very well, while others have such a  smooth way about how they say things, even a rock would feel like a diamond. 

 Mike


----------



## sincere (Sep 22, 2007)

I havent noticed that but it seems really weird if thats the case.

I mean where else could people possibly go? I looked at all of them other forums and TPF was just perfect. Good vibes, nice people, and a lot to learn.

Couldnt ask for more.


----------



## patrickt (Sep 25, 2007)

In every forum there are some posters who are apparently there to meet some personal need and aren't really interested in the topics. If the ratio of these to valuable posters reaches a critical point I tend to leave.

I suspect someone will say, "Who decides who's valuable?" Okay. This is a photography forum. Someone who insists on posting about George Bush or Hillary Clinton should go to, gasp, a political forum. A post that says, "You're an idiot," is not valuable. Period.


----------



## LaFoto (Sep 25, 2007)

Well, patrickt (welcome to ThePhotoForum, by the way ), we have rules that exclude the form of behaviour you are portraying, so given we mods manage to have our eyes everywhere at all times, day or night (which we don't, hence the alarm buttons!), we see to such posts and might as well remove them and tell the posters that this is all off here.

In general people might leave because a forum is too slow (nothing happening for days), or too crowded (too many new threads appearing over night). Sometimes, TPF is on the brink of having too much going on, but then we soon will have chosen our favourite forums, don't we, and mostly go just there. 

What would make me leave a forum would be to be totally ignored, or ridiculed, put down, discriminated against or get flamed. Not that any of this has ever happened to me (thankfully!).

And with regards to this very forum (one of three I go to, the two others both totally NOT photography-related) I don't have a choice ... I just must not leave or else ...  and  by the boss (I think).


----------



## NJMAN (Sep 25, 2007)

itoncool said:


> I don't see all of those reasons at TPF and for the #4, TPF is the best place, I know it's boring and tiring to explain the same thing over and over again, but the moderators & senior members in TPF do that! I've seen Big "heart" Mike sometimes write similar response to different OP. That means a lot to the OP.


 
I feel the need to chime in about this.  I belong to about 5 photography forums.  This one was the first that I joined, and is by far the best, and the one that Ive stuck with the longest for various reasons.  The biggest reason is that the mods dont feel like they are better than anyone else because of the high number of posts they have (or some veterans with high number of posts either).  I dont know all the mods or senior/seasoned veterans, but I will say that since Ive been here, I have seen a genuine willingness to help from these people.  Thats not true for everyone obviously.  But when I see the majority willing to give comments, or help, or make suggestions in an appropriate manner despite all the repetitiveness, that shows great character.  Thats what makes this board great, people with character.


----------



## skieur (Sep 25, 2007)

RMThompson said:


> But the thing that REALLY gets me... is when you offer sound advice, and you're ignored.
> 
> My comments should be known as thread killers... noone respondes to me!
> 
> *sigh*


 
Take it with a grain of salt, RM, considering a few posters call "Awesome" what you and I and some others would probably throw in the trashcan, is it really a surprise that some do not recognize sound advice? 

skieur


----------



## slickhare (Sep 25, 2007)

I used to post here quite often. Then I lost my inspiration. I've never really goten back into the furious commenting and whatnot, mostly just lurk now. TPF's a great place though, don't get me wrong. I've learned a lot from this place.


----------



## xfloggingkylex (Sep 25, 2007)

my activity on here greatly decreased over the summer.  this has to do with working over summer as well as having free time between classes during the school year.

And to be honest I got caught up playing world of warcraft like an addict.

But for car forums, I left my first car forum when my car got totaled.  didnt make sense to be part of a forum when you dont have the uniting factor.


----------



## crownlaurel (Sep 25, 2007)

While I haven't completely left, I've not been very involved here lately.

I've found another site I feel a little more at home on.  That doesn't mean this site is bad or that one is better, just that that one fits me a little better at this point.  The atmosphere is a little more relaxed and photos are shared in some threads for the sheer purpose of sharing photos and ideas and there is a common learning theme each week.

I still enjoy reading the "photographic discussions" forum and occassionally some of the gallery forums, but I haven't posted a picture here in awhile.  I'll hopefully never actually leave.  I've learned quite a bit from some of you and I :hail: the work of many of you.


----------



## elsaspet (Sep 25, 2007)

skieur said:


> Take it with a grain of salt, RM, considering a few posters call "Awesome" what you and I and some others would probably throw in the trashcan, is it really a surprise that some do not recognize sound advice?
> 
> skieur


 

Please show me this sound advice.  What makes you, or me, or anyone else for that matter, a better judge of what a persons personal art is.


----------



## elsaspet (Sep 25, 2007)

patrickt said:


> In every forum there are some posters who are apparently there to meet some personal need and aren't really interested in the topics. If the ratio of these to valuable posters reaches a critical point I tend to leave.
> 
> I suspect someone will say, "Who decides who's valuable?" Okay. This is a photography forum. Someone who insists on posting about George Bush or Hillary Clinton should go to, gasp, a political forum. A post that says, "You're an idiot," is not valuable. Period.


 

Hey Patrick.  Stick in there my man.  The bad guys vs good guys ratio is very small here.
Ignore the meenies.  Just hit the ignore button.  There are lots of people here who will see your work for what it is.
Many hugs.


----------



## elsaspet (Sep 25, 2007)

Mike Jordan said:


> Just like critiquing an image, there are a lot of ways to tell someone that is asking for help, just how to go find that help. Not everyone has the social skills to be able to do either one very well, while others have such a smooth way about how they say things, even a rock would feel like a diamond.
> 
> Mike


 
But there is a huge difference between telling someone they suck (if they get past the "Did you even bother to read the rules, loser" portion of the posts.)
You don't have to climb up someones butt to give them an encouraging word.
I've had my work critted professionally. I've also given professional crit. The thing is, that most people have it wrong.
Crit is not about telling people that they screwed it all up. Crit is about looking at the overall image, and giving advice, if needed. But the REAL part of crit is to say, matter of factly, what you find needs impovement, AND what you find was beneficial.


----------



## ipschoser1 (Sep 25, 2007)

The_Traveler said:


> Virtually every on-line forum, photographic or not, has an active contingent that is much, much smaller than the official 'number of members.' [From a quick look at several member rolls, my guess is that the a graph of the posts by member would look like a poisson distribution.]
> 
> I have always been curious why other people have chosen to leave forums when they have. Since I can't poll the people who have left TPF, altho that might be a good idea as a method to direct improvement of this site, I am asking you why you have left where you no longer are.
> 
> ...


 
I'm new here. Read this thread and think about how it relates to your questions. As a new member, what should I be thinking about now? I'm on many other forums without issues...
http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=987912#post987912


----------



## elsaspet (Sep 25, 2007)

Sweetie, you are doing much better than fine.  Don't let the meanies bother you.
They are on the way out.  We are working on that right now.


----------



## ipschoser1 (Sep 25, 2007)

elsaspet said:


> Sweetie, you are doing much better than fine. Don't let the meanies bother you.
> They are on the way out. We are working on that right now.


 
Having dealt with a few "meanies" in my life, I'm not to worried...


----------



## elsaspet (Sep 25, 2007)

You go girl!


----------



## ipschoser1 (Sep 25, 2007)

elsaspet said:


> You go girl!


 
No girl here... From the sweetie nickname in your previous reply, I was sure hoping you're female. :lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## skieur (Sep 25, 2007)

ipschoser1 said:


> I'm new here. Read this thread and think about how it relates to your questions. As a new member, what should I be thinking about now? I'm on many other forums without issues...
> http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=987912#post987912


 
Well, to answer your question, as a new member based on your reference you should be re-reading the guidelines for critique which for example involves submitting no more than one photo for each thread. You submitted two.

Secondly those commenting should be providing a photographic evaluation that would help you improve,...not.."I like it." Photographic technique is comments about technical excellence such as exposure (Your shot was considerably underexposed by more than 2 fstops and composition (in need of considerable study and improvement) Critical Analysis is NOT a chat area where comments that are not helpful to other photographers are exchanged either. You contributed to this problem.

Lastly you initially suggested that you wanted a complete critique but reacted negatively to one poster who suggested that you should look at and follow the guidelines.

Newbies to photography should not be posting in Critical Analysis unless they are honestly and genuinely willing to listen to other photographers.
You did not display that willingness related to A. and so you should be not at all surprised at the response. Frankly he was extremely diplomatic but I tell it like it is.

If you would like a better response by experienced photographers on this forum, then READ the guidelines for the forum and take them seriously.
If you are not interested in reading a less than positive reaction, then you are not looking to improve, so don't post. Also one should not suggest that they want all kinds of C. & C. and then react negatively to the first less than positive statement. (A. & guidelines)

skieur


----------



## The_Traveler (Sep 25, 2007)

I started this thread trying to get some insight; it seems to have degenerated into a fair amount of whining and threatening

One new poster ipschoser implied that he ws badly used because Abraxas asked a couple of responders if they had read the guidelines for the Critique Forum   and this was the ipschoser's response to Abraxas.



ipschoser1 said:


> Did I miss your screen name when reviewing the "forum leaders" list? It wasn't on there.



Well, yes, it is all our responsibility to keep the forums on track. But Ipschoser wanted to do it his own way and thought that Abraxas was wrong to ask him to go by the guidelines.

Then  elsapet told everyone that there were bullies here and she prayed to God they would be gone soon. And then went on to say. 



elsaspet said:


> Don't let the meanies bother you.
> They are on the way out.  We are working on that right now.



Now that is bullying.

I would like Elsapet to name who she thinks is a bully or a meany and stop this vague naming and threatening.

The members who participated in that thread were Battou, Skieur and Abraxas, all saying the same thing, that the OP was out of line. If Elsapet think that any of these people are bullies, she should say so.  If she thinks that I'm a bully because I actually say what I think and don't think its necessary to treat everyone like a seven year old, then she should say so.

This kind of ambiguous name-calling because you don't agree with someones' behavior is passive-aggressive in the extreme.

_[FONT=arial, helvetica]                 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 
    -- I Corinthians 13:11[/FONT]_


----------



## The_Traveler (Sep 25, 2007)

ipschoser1 said:


> You're in dreamland...



Well you clearly are open to critique.


----------



## Chas (Sep 25, 2007)

I tend to join a forum to satisfy a thirst for information in a relatively new (or renewed) area of interest, but stick around if there are enough smart, witty, stimulating and knowledgeable people that post once in a while. 

So why on earth am I still here? .... 



I do like to see a bit of humor mixed in with the serious stuff, to me it's a sign of a well-balanced person who isn't going to over-react all the time when there's a disagreement. And the two are not mutually exclusive, for Pete's sake. 

I have found this forum very useful in getting my mind back into more serious photography after a dark, dark P&S period.  What particularly fascinates me about this place is that there are some very seasoned shooters (including pros) here who don't mind helping people like me out, if questions are sensibly put (aka don't ask them to do _all_ the thinking/research for you) and who clearly love the game enough to put in the time. I greatly respect that. 

Compared to other forums I know, this one is rather well-behaved and lightly moderated. This is a good thing. I thank you all - you know who you are.


----------



## Dubie (Sep 25, 2007)

I don't belong to many online forums. This one I came to as an inexperienced photographer looking for help...BUT I do a lot of searches on this forum first so I do not become repetative in my questions. I know the same questions get asked many times over & over by newbies. I search first and ask later. If I am stumped, I'll start a thread. I don't have the time to get personal.

I belong to 3 other forums and haven't left. The longest is going on 4 years.


----------



## skieur (Sep 25, 2007)

"I started this thread trying to get some insight it seems to have degenerated into a fair amount of whining and threatening" quoted from Traveler

I believe that a decision needs to be made in terms of the direction of this forum. Is it to be a true and serious photography site where learning can take place without false praise and unrealistic encouragement for less than adequate work or is to be a "chat line" where we can all congratulate each other for simply pressing the shutter. Any qualified instructor or teacher is taught to avoid false encouragement.

The decision is up to the administrator and moderators but it will determine whether those very experienced photographers who can really give good advice based on decades of experience in all areas of photography stay or leave.

skieur


----------



## Corry (Sep 25, 2007)

Ok, let's stop the namecalling.  We're adults, not children at recess.  Resolving conflicts in a civilized manner can be an easily attainable accomplishment for each and every one of you.  

And also, before you post, remember that behind those screen names are real human beings...neighbors, brothers, fathers, aunts, daughters, ect.  

This is this thread's official 'keep it civil' warning.


----------



## Iron Flatline (Sep 25, 2007)

skieur said:


> I believe that a decision needs to be made in terms of the direction of this forum. Is it to be a true and serious photography site where learning can take place without false praise and unrealistic encouragement for less than adequate work or is to be a "chat line" where we can all congratulate each other for simply pressing the shutter. Any qualified instructor or teacher is taught to avoid false encouragement.
> 
> The decision is up to the administrator and moderators but it will determine whether those very experienced photographers who can really give good advice based on decades of experience in all areas of photography stay or leave.


It can be both. We have sections for each, and they can happily co-exist.


----------



## MostlyDigital (Sep 25, 2007)

I leave because it takes sooooo long to read the forum, its alot of time. sometimes i come back, then leave. there are alot of other site that are waaaay more active.

fredmiranda is one that is very active


----------



## Corry (Sep 25, 2007)

Iron Flatline said:


> It can be both. We have sections for each, and they can happily co-exist.



And that is exactly what we hope to achieve.  We want TPF to be a welcoming place for amatuers and pros alike.

Thank you, Iron Flatline.


----------



## kundalini (Sep 25, 2007)

Can't we all just get along.....Sorry, that was way too easy to spit out at this point.  During the course of this thread, both sides of the pancake has been flipped and delicately browned.  Valid points have been made on the dichotomies.

One reason I come to this forum (nearly daily) is to be able to enjoy adults discussing matters that interest me.  I earnestly appreciate direct comments to any photos I post.  I have chosen to make those posts fewer and farther between only because I wish to employee that information I have digested during those times of lurking to discover what will make a better photograph.

I also would like to think that my personal C&C has become more constructive by reading what the seasoned and the fresh meat photographers have to recommend to the OP's.  I only hope that my observational skills have improved slightly since I have become a part of this community.  I truly believe that (at times) sharp, pointed statements about a particular photograph are only beneficial to the OP if it is in the correct forum.  If I were to post in The Beginners Forum, I would expect to be guided with gentle hands as to what will improve my skills.  This will gently nudge those that are insecure of their skills or more importantly, what one should consider an appreciable composition.  However, if one posts in the General Gallery, poster beware.  Here is where curb meets the road...road meets the pavement...$h!+ hits the fan, whatever the saying is.  You get what you deserve!

The whole point, ineptly being made, is that some people should grow thicker skins in critiques to their photos.  Others should think back on days gone by when they didn't know an f stop from a metering mode...and allow some space and time for the absorption of your knowledge to take affect.  And lastly, some should not bite back as easily as it would be when an opposition to their advice is not taken or...OH NO!...scoffed.  To take offense and commence with name calling is just bad form.

Just my nickels worth.


----------



## JimmyJaceyMom (Sep 25, 2007)

hmmm, the online world. It's an interesting place. The stories I could tell you - MY GOODNESS! You can only imagine as the only other type of message board I had belonged to before photogtraphy was a pregnancy one! All of us due in the same month. A bunch of hormone driven women all in one place with differing opinions on just about everything! C-R-A-Z-Y!
But also one of the neatest experiences in my life. No kidding. Then things got really wierd and after all the babies were born and people had gotten so comfortable with one another and 'cliques' had formed and the sh#t hit the fan! I stayed out of all of it until it was time to stick up for what I believed in and it didn't go over well with those in charge so I got the big old BOOT!
I started my own board and invited some from the one I was kicked off of and you know the ones that booted me actually pretended to be someone else, gained access to my private board and copied and pasted information from mine and sent it to all of their members. Then proceeded in kicking off any members of their board that would not agree to leave mine?
Weirdos.
I closed mine after some threats were made to a few of my members and one of mine made HER own so now it's just a tiny, nice, quiet board with a few calm people. yay.

As far as TPF, I did not know one single thing when I came here and I am not kidding. Look back and see my first few posts and my face will turn red at the embarassing stuff I asked - the very questions that irritate many members here. 
But I asked, got answers, tried and practiced and asked for more and more help and am moving up and up as I go along. I don't take breaks from here except when life is nutso and I try my hardest to stay out of trouble although when I see something that really bugs me I can't bite my tongue sometimes. 
I feel that even if I knew all there was to know I will love to help those that are genuine in their want to learn more. If no one wanted to help me when I started I don't know where I would be now. Still taking pictures of my kids with my crappy 2.1 megapixel.  

My advice to people on message boards is to ignore the things that don't interest you. Roll your eyes and move on. LOL. I know you are a great teacher. You taought me a lot of things so far and I hope you can stick around to share more of your thoughts with me. 

One of the first times you critiqued something of mine I was like "Uh, whatever!" haha. But I knew you were right and apon getting to know what your style of helping was I learned to appreciate the honesty of it. And now I look for it. 

Hang in there.


----------



## Mike Jordan (Sep 25, 2007)

Corry said:


> And also, before you post, remember that behind those screen names are real human beings...neighbors, brothers, fathers, aunts, daughters, ect.




  Actually, that's not always true... I've been in computers almost as long as I've been in photography and I've found that a good number of posters on forums like this are not human. They are programs and automated AI's (under the guise of search engine data gathers) that have been very ingeniously created to simulate human behaviour.  Probably as many as 50% are not real flesh and blood.  Another 49% are one person running two or more computers under multiple screen names so they can play off each other, edge each other on, be the straight man and generally make it look more active than it really is. That usually leaves one person at most that is the real user in any given conversation.  So will the real forum member please raise their hand?  



Mike


----------



## Corry (Sep 26, 2007)

Mike Jordan said:


> Actually, that's not always true... I've been in computers almost as long as I've been in photography and I've found that a good number of posters on forums like this are not human. They are programs and automated AI's (under the guise of search engine data gathers) that have been very ingeniously created to simulate human behaviour.  Probably as many as 50% are not real flesh and blood.  Another 49% are one person running two or more computers under multiple screen names so they can play off each other, edge each other on, be the straight man and generally make it look more active than it really is. That usually leaves one person at most that is the real user in any given conversation.  So will the real forum member please raise their hand?
> 
> 
> 
> Mike



I am not referring to spambots/search engine spiders that don't post, unless it's spam.  I'm pretty sure you know that.


----------



## skieur (Sep 26, 2007)

Mike Jordan said:


> Actually, that's not always true... I've been in computers almost as long as I've been in photography and I've found that a good number of posters on forums like this are not human. They are programs and automated AI's (under the guise of search engine data gathers) that have been very ingeniously created to simulate human behaviour. Probably as many as 50% are not real flesh and blood. Another 49% are one person running two or more computers under multiple screen names so they can play off each other, edge each other on, be the straight man and generally make it look more active than it really is. That usually leaves one person at most that is the real user in any given conversation. So will the real forum member please raise their hand?
> 
> 
> 
> Mike


 
Hey, sounds like a great conspiracy theory!  The question then becomes: "Are you real or an automated program?"   Of course, since I don't have an avatar, maybe I'm a program.....hmmm 

skieur


----------



## RMThompson (Sep 26, 2007)

All in all these things work themselves out. It's a good forum, however bitter I seemed earlier in the thread, I enjoy it.


----------



## abraxas (Sep 26, 2007)

RMThompson said:


> All in all these things work themselves out. It's a good forum, however bitter I seemed earlier in the thread, I enjoy it.



Full moon tonight- tends to draw water into people's heads, like a blister.  Things will work out.


----------



## skieur (Sep 26, 2007)

Iron Flatline said:


> It can be both. We have sections for each, and they can happily co-exist.


 
Certainly they can co-exist if they stay in their sections.  I think motcon said it originally and I tend to agree... Critical Analysis is not the place for chat.  Readers are looking for critique there.

skieur


----------



## Mike Jordan (Sep 26, 2007)

Corry said:


> I am not referring to spambots/search engine spiders that don't post, unless it's spam. I'm pretty sure you know that.


 

  Oops... I see I forgot to put my "beware of humorous comment" warning in my post.  Now where did that warning go...


Mike


----------



## Patrice (Sep 26, 2007)

As has been said 'sometimes life gets in the way' and other times it's 'just time to move on'. I used to belong to a truck forum and an rv forum - they got boring and no longer held my interest. Another photo forum I belong to is brand specific is absolutely huge so a search of the site will give me a result before my having to ask in a post. I also participate in a brand specific motorcycle forum that had a few hundred members when I joined and now is approaching 100 thousand, just can't keep up with who is who and what the threads are anymore. I've been inactive for quite a while on any of the forums whith life changes taking priority for attention over the last 6 months.


----------



## abraxas (Sep 26, 2007)

Oooowh, oooowh, I got one...

Sometimes people leave 'cause they die.


----------



## skieur (Sep 26, 2007)

abraxas said:


> Oooowh, oooowh, I got one...
> 
> Sometimes people leave 'cause they die.


 
Sure, but getting cancer, or having a family member suddenly in a coma due to a car accident or catastrophically brain damaged can be rather "distracting" as well.

skieur


----------



## abraxas (Sep 26, 2007)

--


----------



## JimmyJaceyMom (Sep 26, 2007)

Geez.........


----------



## The_Traveler (Sep 26, 2007)

skieur said:


> or catastrophically brain damaged can be rather "distracting" as well.
> 
> skieur



Actually, I've seen their pictures.


:lmao::lmao::lmao:


----------



## abraxas (Sep 26, 2007)

The_Traveler said:


> Actually, I've seen their pictures.
> ...



Of them?


----------



## JimmyJaceyMom (Sep 26, 2007)

The_Traveler said:


> Actually, I've seen their pictures.
> 
> 
> :lmao::lmao::lmao:


 

Don't talk about me like that!


----------



## LaFoto (Sep 26, 2007)

Hey, careful.
You might not know how this reads to Skieur ... he knows what he is talking about, sadly so. He's not joking here. (Am I right, Skieur?) So don't joke about someone suddenly getting brain damaged through a horrible car accident. Please.


----------



## craig (Sep 27, 2007)

I am not seeing the photographic part in this discussion.

Love & Bass


----------



## LaFoto (Sep 27, 2007)

Actually, you are right.
I shall at long last move it to the Off Topics.


----------



## The_Traveler (Sep 27, 2007)

LaFoto said:


> Hey, careful.
> You might not know how this reads to Skieur ... he knows what he is talking about, sadly so. He's not joking here. (Am I right, Skieur?) So don't joke about someone suddenly getting brain damaged through a horrible car accident. Please.



Skieur is a grownup who wouldn't have introduced this subject into an open discussion without explanation if he were so terribly sensitive. If he is hurt I apologize but try to keep from imposing even more requirements on what is politically correct to say or not.


----------



## terri (Sep 27, 2007)

The_Traveler said:


> Skieur is a grownup who wouldn't have introduced this subject into an open discussion without explanation if he were so terribly sensitive. If he is hurt I apologize but try to keep from imposing even more requirements on what is politically correct to say or not.


Oh, put a sock in it, Lew. This thread is of questionable merit as it is; LaFoto can offer up words of caution however she chooses.


----------



## skieur (Sep 27, 2007)

LaFoto said:


> Hey, careful.
> You might not know how this reads to Skieur ... he knows what he is talking about, sadly so. He's not joking here. (Am I right, Skieur?) So don't joke about someone suddenly getting brain damaged through a horrible car accident. Please.


 
Yes, you are right LaFoto. Very perceptive. You remember the photo, I think and put two and two together.  Very good memory too on your part.

skieur


----------



## The_Traveler (Sep 27, 2007)

I have already apologized to Skieur through email for any inadvertent hurt in the use of terms but this thread also inadvertently gave the the circumstance to add, as my last post here, another reason why people leave.

 I have spent a lot of time here, responding to pictures, critiquing pictures, doing my best to help new photographers trying to fend off the casual drop-in and improving the Forum. However, I see this Forum winding slowly downhill. Many of the better photographers post rarely, if at all. Although my skills are debatable, I have chose in the last few months not to post any pictures because I don't get enough back to be worth the effort. 

The final straw for me was when a mod took me to taste publicly for an unknowing slip, rather than PMing me so I could apologize.  OTOH, I was called an idiot in a thread and that was let go with a general caution about name-calling to everyone. That unequal treatment by the mods is something I won't absorb. 

I have decided to spend all my time elsewhere. Thanks to all the people I have met here.


----------

