# dodging and burning?



## MACollum (Jan 31, 2007)

Let me start by saying that I know what they do, but those of you who use those tools (some say it's "bad" to use them), what do you use them for, specifically. I'm intrigued by the possibilities but can't figure out what I would use them for. I did use the dodge tool to lighten a dark shadow on a face once, and with a resonable result.


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## Big Mike (Jan 31, 2007)

dodge to lighten 
Burn to darken

That's it really.  On their own, the could be called 'destructive' tools in photoshop...because they change the image.  That's why I prefer to use them on a separate layer.


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## mysteryscribe (Jan 31, 2007)

I have a digital darkroom not photoshop so i dont do layers but i use the brush to lighten and darken a lot more than faces..  Most photographs have to be an average light source.  Some areas will be darker than you like and some lighter.  the burn and dodge tools allow me to even it out somewhat.  You must use it very cautiously though.


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## GreyTricky (Jan 31, 2007)

I sometimes use burn to give people a bit of color/tan if they look a bit white and bright, it's a great tool for boosting a healthy look into them and can look quite natural if done right


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## neogfx (Jan 31, 2007)

MACollum said:


> Let me start by saying that I know what they do, but those of you who use those tools (some say it's "bad" to use them), what do you use them for, specifically. I'm intrigued by the possibilities but can't figure out what I would use them for. I did use the dodge tool to lighten a dark shadow on a face once, and with a resonable result.


 
I don't understand why people would say it's "bad" to use them. All the great photographer's use, and have used, burning and dodging. It's not just a digital trick, it was developed in traditional dark rooms. You give some of the photo paper more exposure to light than other bits to enhance an image.
Anybody that says it's "bad" to use these techniques cannot understand a whole lot about darkroom techniques (traditional and modern).


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## Digital Matt (Jan 31, 2007)

neogfx said:


> I don't understand why people would say it's "bad" to use them. All the great photographer's use, and have used, burning and dodging. It's not just a digital trick, it was developed in traditional dark rooms. You give some of the photo paper more exposure to light than other bits to enhance an image.
> Anybody that says it's "bad" to use these techniques cannot understand a whole lot about darkroom techniques (traditional and modern).



It's bad to use them in photoshop because they degrade the image by changing the pixels.  Most people don't understand how to use them without degrading the image.

New layer, fill with 50% gray, set blend mode to soft light, and dodge and burn away.  Non destructive.


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## markc (Jan 31, 2007)

It doesn't "harm" the original pixel, but I think it can still make two different adjacent pixels the same color in the end. This is how I've seen the term "destructive" sometimes used. You can go back and change your mind, but in the print, you'll still have killed the difference between the pixels. After I learned about this, I started using masked layers and curves. The way I understand it, curves will not make two pixels the same color unless you have a flat ramp. As long as there is an incline to it, you can keep detail in the area you are working in.


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## Arch (Jan 31, 2007)

markc said:


> It doesn't "harm" the original pixel, but I think it can still make two different adjacent pixels the same color in the end. This is how I've seen the term "destructive" sometimes used. You can go back and change your mind, but in the print, you'll still have killed the difference between the pixels. After I learned about this, I started using masked layers and curves. The way I understand it, curves will not make two pixels the same color unless you have a flat ramp. As long as there is an incline to it, you can keep detail in the area you are working in.



+1 :thumbup:


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## PNA (Feb 1, 2007)

Digital Matt said:


> It's bad to use them in photoshop because they degrade the image by changing the pixels. Most people don't understand how to use them without degrading the image.
> 
> New layer, fill with 50% gray, set blend mode to soft light, and dodge and burn away. Non destructive.


 
Matt.....I tried using your instructions, but without results.

What am I doing wrong?????

Paul


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## Digital Matt (Feb 1, 2007)

Paul, there's no real way I can answer that without seeing what you did over your shoulder.  Try it again, carefully.


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## PNA (Feb 1, 2007)

Right.....in the meantime I found a "button" for fill with 50% gray at the bottom of the layer>new dialog box.

Thanks, Paul


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## Digital Matt (Feb 1, 2007)

acsonpg said:


> Right.....in the meantime I found a "button" for fill with 50% gray at the bottom of the layer>new dialog box.
> 
> Thanks, Paul



Yes, do that, and click ok.  Then set the blend mode on the top left of the layers pallete to "soft light", and dodge and burn on that layer.


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## PNA (Feb 1, 2007)

That works.....I love experimenting with new instructions, my way to learn.


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## ksmattfish (Feb 1, 2007)

MACollum said:


> I'm intrigued by the possibilities but can't figure out what I would use them for.



See if you can track down a Richard Avedon book.  There are usually behind the scenes shots of him working, including contact sheets, and burn/dodge maps.  A burn/dodge map is a straight print that comes back from the lab, and the photographer marks it up with circles and notes that say darker here, and lighter there.  Richard Avedon's are particularly cool, because he starts with such huge prints, and messes with everything.  The whole proof is covered in circles and lines explaining how he wants it printed next time.  It's particularly revealing to those who thought that heavy manipulation is a product of digital.


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## MACollum (Feb 2, 2007)

Digital Matt said:


> New layer, fill with 50% gray, set blend mode to soft light, and dodge and burn away. Non destructive.


 
Thanks for the tip!


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## MACollum (Feb 2, 2007)

Anyone ever tried the dodge tool for whitening smiles?. My neice wanted her smile whiter so I tried dodge for that. The result was good, much more natural-looking than creating a layer (with lightening applied), then erasing over a duplicate of the original layer. You'd probably LOL at the things I've tried when there was an easier way that I didn't know about.


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## fmw (Feb 2, 2007)

Here's an image that was burned to tone down blown out highlights in the animals' skin and hair.


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## Digital Matt (Feb 2, 2007)

MACollum said:


> Anyone ever tried the dodge tool for whitening smiles?. My neice wanted her smile whiter so I tried dodge for that. The result was good, much more natural-looking than creating a layer (with lightening applied), then erasing over a duplicate of the original layer. You'd probably LOL at the things I've tried when there was an easier way that I didn't know about.



You can whiten teeth somewhat by doing this, but you are really just removing detail.  You are better off actually changing the color balance.  If teeth are too yellow, take yellow out to make them neutral.


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## MACollum (Feb 4, 2007)

Digital Matt said:


> You can whiten teeth somewhat by doing this, but you are really just removing detail. You are better off actually changing the color balance. If teeth are too yellow, take yellow out to make them neutral.


I think I may play around with it some more. Messing with the colors is so hard for me as I can never seem to get a natural color. One day I spent an hour editing a washed out picture of my neice taken by her friend. We were trying to make her eyes bluer, her skin more natural and the smile whiter. I had no idea what I was doing and ended up making lots of layers, changing the colors on each and erasing the parts we wanted. I know there's got to be easier ways of doing these things...LOL. I have so little patience.


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