# Ummmm Craigslist?



## bennielou (Apr 20, 2010)

I got this e-mail this morning, and it was too good not to share. It came from my website, so she knows that I'm booked and what my pricing is. I also love the part about how they are getting married at a country club.
I soooooo wanted to ask her if she'd checked Craigslist, but I refrained:

_*(Bennie), *_

_*Our wedding is 10am on (date and City removed) at the (Name of Super Fancy Country club removed) Country Club. We only require 6 hours of photographic coverage max (mostly of the ceremony and wedding party and possibly some pre-wedding candids/jitters). We'd like to have the pictures on a CD with full rights to the images. We'd like to stay around our $300 photography budget. Would you be able to meet that our at least provide us with a quote for our needs?*_

_*Thanks, *_

_*xxxxBride (name removed)*_


:violin::banghead::gah:

Come on guys....I know you get these too. Please share your most hysterical e-mails!


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## dom yo (Apr 20, 2010)

hahaha wow a wopping 300 bucks!?
you should totally do that!!!


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## dom yo (Apr 20, 2010)

i bet she'll at least give you a hug as well


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## bennielou (Apr 20, 2010)

dom yo said:


> hahaha wow a wopping 300 bucks!?
> you should totally do that!!!


 

Haha.  I was sooooo tempted to tell her I would do it if I could shoot it with a cell cam, a lensbaby, and a fisheye.:greenpbl:


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## dom yo (Apr 20, 2010)

hahaha bust out a cell phone to take pictures of someones wedding
that would be awesome


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## bennielou (Apr 20, 2010)

erose86 said:


> ...if you give me her e-mail, I can ask her if she's on crack for you....


 

Definately on crack......Or in bride lala land.   

I wonder how much she spent on the country club, the cake, the dress, the catering, and all that other stuff which will be mere memories?  You know she probably spent at least 10K for the space, probably a few grand for the cakes.  Probably another 5 grand at least for catering.  And she is going to spend 300 bucks on photography?  With print rights?  Bwhahahahaha.  :lmao::lmao::greenpbl:

Just goes to show how much SOME people value their permanent recordings.

God, I'd hate to see the poor photog who signs up for this nightmare, and believe me SOMEONE will.  They are in for nothing but heartache, headaches, and a record disaster.


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## bennielou (Apr 20, 2010)

dom yo said:


> hahaha bust out a cell phone to take pictures of someones wedding
> that would be awesome


 
If I wasn't already booked, I would so totally do it.


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## dom yo (Apr 20, 2010)

if i give you 10 dollars and some used bubble gum, will you take pictures of me?


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## bennielou (Apr 20, 2010)

dom yo said:


> if i give you 10 dollars and some used bubble gum, will you take pictures of me?


 

That's about the sum of it. LOL.


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## dom yo (Apr 20, 2010)

bennielou said:


> dom yo said:
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yea im glad i keep this more of a hobby, i dont have to put up with as much dumb stuff as you pros do


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## bennielou (Apr 20, 2010)

erose86 said:


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And really, to me that would be the most important thing too.  I've had clients spend huge amounts of money on photography, and when I show up it's at the VFW hall.  But they had the sense to know that I'd make the VFW hall look like the Hilton.   And I agree that music is huge too.  There is nothing worse that people sitting around an not dancing.

It's funny to me how people prioritize sometimes.  I won't mention dollar amounts on photos vs. weddings because I've been informed that this is in bad taste, but you would be amazed.


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## bennielou (Apr 20, 2010)

dom yo said:


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It doesn't happen all that often.  About once a week or two I get the e-mail saying they only need one photographer for two hours, like that will somehow make it easier on me, or make it cheaper somehow.  I can't blame folks for asking....BUT some of the letters are pretty darn ballsy.


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## robertwsimpson (Apr 20, 2010)

Hey, she did ask for a quote at the end.  Most people are uninformed when it comes to how much photographers think their work is worth.  We hired a photographer for our wedding for quite a tidy sum of money, and my wife was pretty disappointed, considering people with PnS cameras came up with stuff that was pretty much just as good.  Of course, we haven't seen the final work, just a blog preview, but I think that the days of people spending big bucks on wedding photographers are drawing to a close.  

It might be time to start thinking about adapting.  Maybe I'm wrong.


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## c.cloudwalker (Apr 20, 2010)

I don't quite see why you didn't suggest Craigslist. As long as you do it in a formal polite manner  and cya: "I am sorry that I cannot help you with your special day. I have heard that you can sometimes find photographers to fit your budget on Craigslist. Please note that this in no way is to be construed as a recommendation of their work." :lmao:


This does however remind of an opposite kind of story. This was years ago and to give you an idea of rates at the time, I charged $1000 for the day of shooting which rarely went over 6 hours and I was up there price wise...

A woman called the editor of National Geographic looking for a photographer for her daughter's wedding. The editor tried to explain that his photogs don't do this kind of work but she keeps insisting that he passes the word around anyway. He agrees. Of course, everybody says "thank you but no thank you." So this one (who I won't mention by name  ) tells the editor he will shoot it and hand over the films at the end of the day for $25,000...

Apparently this woman really wanted to be able to say an NG photogs was doing the wedding because she agreed to the terms. :lmao:


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## bennielou (Apr 20, 2010)

robertwsimpson said:


> Hey, she did ask for a quote at the end. Most people are uninformed when it comes to how much photographers think their work is worth. We hired a photographer for our wedding for quite a tidy sum of money, and my wife was pretty disappointed, considering people with PnS cameras came up with stuff that was pretty much just as good. Of course, we haven't seen the final work, just a blog preview, but I think that the days of people spending big bucks on wedding photographers are drawing to a close.
> 
> It might be time to start thinking about adapting. Maybe I'm wrong.


 
Hi Robert,
First of all, congratulations on your wedding. Secondly, don't take anything I say in offense. I'm speaking as someone who works nonstop and has a very solid client base.

Photos are worth what the client values them at. No more no less. That is, unless the client is duped with someone else's work samples, or samples of work that they don't routinely do. Otherwise clients pay what the market will bear for the photographer's skill level and completed work. As well as client reviews, referrals, recommendations, etc.

A lot of that boils down to the research the clients do. Did you see full wedding samples? Not just one, but many? Did you see before and after retouching, and ask if it's every photo of just a few? Did you actually ask for, and call and speak with real prior clients? Did you check them out with the BBB and online review sites like www.weddingwire.com where all reviews are confirmed?

If people with a point and shoot were taking more consistant, and better photos that I produced, I would hang my cameras up and go become a Walmart greeter.

However, unfortunately, there are posers out there. Lots of them. There are more shoot and burners via real photogs than I can name. Everyone who got a camera last week and stole photos from someone else's website is a "wedding photographer". Or they took photos of their kids or flowers which somehow equated that they were wedding ready.

Unfortunately, a whole lot of really good people are being fooled.  With the ever decreasing prosumer camera pricing, and the ever increasing fraud rate, we can expect a whole lot more of this.

Actually, I think the days of highly paid photographers is actually increasing. At least that is my experience. People are becoming a lot more aware of what is crap and what is not. A certain level of serious people who are doing thier homework are figuring out pretty fast, what good lighting is, what real PJ moments are, what a good traditional photo for Grandma looks like. They aren't all cheapskates or lazy researchers, or dummies. Most people I deal with get it. And they understand the value of good work.

And that is why I closed out this year in February, and why I raised my pricing in April. People, who expect great work, totally get it.

And that is why the pricing increase trend is growing. We are separating ourselves from the mediocre. (or however you spell that). Our clients are referrals, and people who really care about photography. About a third of my clients are actually wedding or portait photographers themselves.

There is a market for everyone. From the Craigslister to the Rockstar. There is a butt for every seat as my Dad used to say. It depends on the research YOU do, and the level of the photography that the photographer is actually consistant with. AND how much you value that service.

Many Hugs and again congratulations to you.
Cindy.


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## bennielou (Apr 20, 2010)

robertwsimpson said:


> Hey, she did ask for a quote at the end. Most people are uninformed when it comes to how much photographers think their work is worth. We hired a photographer for our wedding for quite a tidy sum of money, and my wife was pretty disappointed, considering people with PnS cameras came up with stuff that was pretty much just as good. Of course, we haven't seen the final work, just a blog preview, but I think that the days of people spending big bucks on wedding photographers are drawing to a close.
> 
> It might be time to start thinking about adapting. Maybe I'm wrong.


 

Sorry, I left out the last part of your post. I reminded her that I was booked for the year unfortunately, and that my base pricing was $2000 regardless of hours or number of photographers.
And that is the truth. I congratulated her on her engagement, and wished her very many well wishes. I was not rude in any way.
I would have referred her to other photographers who may of helped her, but I don't know of anyone under $1000 for what she is asking for. Even the beginners I know charge much more.


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## bennielou (Apr 20, 2010)

c.cloudwalker said:


> I don't quite see why you didn't suggest Craigslist. As long as you do it in a formal polite manner  and cya: "I am sorry that I cannot help you with your special day. I have heard that you can sometimes find photographers to fit your budget on Craigslist. Please note that this in no way is to be construed as a recommendation of their work." :lmao:
> 
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> This does however remind of an opposite kind of story. This was years ago and to give you an idea of rates at the time, I charged $1000 for the day of shooting which rarely went over 6 hours and I was up there price wise...
> ...


 
Unfortunately, Craigslist, for photographers, has a really bad reputation.  No matter your level, if you post there, you are considered a cheapo, regardless of whethere it is true or not.  It's like you are saying that the bride is a "cheap a$$ed loser".  And that might well be true, but it's not exactly politically correct.


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## dom yo (Apr 20, 2010)

c.cloudwalker said:


> I don't quite see why you didn't suggest Craigslist. As long as you do it in a formal polite manner  and cya: "I am sorry that I cannot help you with your special day. I have heard that you can sometimes find photographers to fit your budget on Craigslist. Please note that this in no way is to be construed as a recommendation of their work." :lmao:
> 
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> This does however remind of an opposite kind of story. This was years ago and to give you an idea of rates at the time, I charged $1000 for the day of shooting which rarely went over 6 hours and I was up there price wise...
> ...


i hope those photos were printed on gold.....


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## bennielou (Apr 20, 2010)

dom yo said:


> c.cloudwalker said:
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> > I don't quite see why you didn't suggest Craigslist. As long as you do it in a formal polite manner  and cya: "I am sorry that I cannot help you with your special day. I have heard that you can sometimes find photographers to fit your budget on Craigslist. Please note that this in no way is to be construed as a recommendation of their work." :lmao:
> ...


 
Ahh Girl,

There are lots of Rockstars in my area who's base pricing is 20,000 and above.  And they are worth it.

They don't need to print on gold.  They are worth every penny if the client can afford it.  They put out some of the most beautiful, timeless, artistic photos than any rich bride could hope for.   They don't print on gold, but their photos ARE gold.


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## robertwsimpson (Apr 20, 2010)

Well, I am not involved in the market directly, other than my one experience (which is not even complete yet), so that's why I included the last "maybe I'm wrong" part.  In truth, my wife handled all of the wedding stuff, as I am working on a house for us to move into.  She hired a friend who she has followed since she began taking photos.  She was very familiar with her work.  Also, maybe I was unclear in my description, but of course the people with point and shoot cameras were not taking consistently good photos... The thing is that the sheer number of cameras and sets of eyes guarantees a few really good shots in my opinion.  Could we have counted on our guests to capture every important moment in pristine clarity, convey emotion, frame correctly, shoot with any kind of DoF effect, and all of this in a quality that we could print at a large size and hang on our wall?  No, definitely not.  Is it worth the money to guarantee all of these things? Maybe, maybe not.  

I am glad to see that you have found a base of people who value this sort of work.  I think that craftsmen are a dying breed.  There is not a huge market for custom furniture, or fine leather work, or the like, because of huge stores peddling crap.  Do I shop at Walmart for stuff?  All the time.  Am I willing to pay a little extra for something way nicer?  Absolutely, as long as my bank account can bare it.  Photography is the same.  

Anyway, I am staying out of the whole thing, because I just want my wife to be happy.  If she likes the photos that we get back, then I am a happy camper.  Personally, I would never mix work and friends.  I don't think anything good comes of it.


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## dom yo (Apr 20, 2010)

bennielou said:


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:lmao:
did you just call me a girl


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## bennielou (Apr 20, 2010)

robertwsimpson said:


> Well, I am not involved in the market directly, other than my one experience (which is not even complete yet), so that's why I included the last "maybe I'm wrong" part. In truth, my wife handled all of the wedding stuff, as I am working on a house for us to move into. She hired a friend who she has followed since she began taking photos. She was very familiar with her work. Also, maybe I was unclear in my description, but of course the people with point and shoot cameras were not taking consistently good photos... The thing is that the sheer number of cameras and sets of eyes guarantees a few really good shots in my opinion. Could we have counted on our guests to capture every important moment in pristine clarity, convey emotion, frame correctly, shoot with any kind of DoF effect, and all of this in a quality that we could print at a large size and hang on our wall? No, definitely not. Is it worth the money to guarantee all of these things? Maybe, maybe not.
> 
> I am glad to see that you have found a base of people who value this sort of work. I think that craftsmen are a dying breed. There is not a huge market for custom furniture, or fine leather work, or the like, because of huge stores peddling crap. Do I shop at Walmart for stuff? All the time. Am I willing to pay a little extra for something way nicer? Absolutely, as long as my bank account can bare it. Photography is the same.
> 
> Anyway, I am staying out of the whole thing, because I just want my wife to be happy. If she likes the photos that we get back, then I am a happy camper. Personally, I would never mix work and friends. I don't think anything good comes of it.


 

You sound like a super sweet guy and great hubby.  I think your wife was well meaning.  I am sorry that she was disappointed.

I'm sorry that the hired photog was unable, due to equipment or skill level, to pull off your wedding in a way pleasing to you and your wife.  I congratulate your wife on being a good friend, but her friend should have notified her of her limited capabilities.  It's very sad to me, because this isn't an everyday, or do over, thing.  

And this is the exact reason, IMO, that people are returning to proven pros.  A friend, however well meaning, can not pull off something as complicated as a wedding.

At the end of the day, there is a huge split on brides.  Either they are spending an enormous amount with proven photogs, or they are really skimping.

If you are in my area, I will take some "day after" photos of you at no cost.  I just want you to be happy.


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## bennielou (Apr 20, 2010)

dom yo said:


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Yes.  I just turned 46 and you are a kid.


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## c.cloudwalker (Apr 20, 2010)

robertwsimpson said:


> Also, maybe I was unclear in my description, but of course the people with point and shoot cameras were not taking consistently good photos... The thing is that the sheer number of cameras and sets of eyes guarantees a few really good shots in my opinion.



I agree and for some people it is more than enough. My wife and I see a wedding as a celebration rather than a show and our wedding was even cheaper than that described by erose86 (we did a potluck buffet )  We had no paid photographer and although a good number of the guests were pro photogs, we didn't ask them to bring any gear. Some brought P&Ss but most of our photos came from non-industry friends and we're happy as can be with the results.

To each his/her own. 

I've read and been told many times that a wedding is so stressful that the B&G rarely remember much of it. I don't know if that is true but I can assure you that if my wife and I have forgotten some of ours, it should be blamed on the booze, not the stress


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## dom yo (Apr 20, 2010)

bennielou said:


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hey look im exactly half your age :greenpbl:
but thats not what i was referring to
im a guy


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## bennielou (Apr 20, 2010)

dom yo said:


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Opps, sorry about the gender mix up kiddo.


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## dom yo (Apr 20, 2010)

bennielou said:


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haha its okay


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## c.cloudwalker (Apr 20, 2010)

erose86 said:


> ...keeping it as cheap as possible because my parent's aren't rolling in money either,



Not every one has the money to have a $40,000 wedding. But, more important to me, is the fact that not everyone cares about/wants a $40,000 wedding and I find it very annoying when all the "my sister wants me to shoot her wedding although I don't have any experience" threads are answered by "get a pro, she will regret not to" without ever asking what the situation is 

Here's a funny story about my wedding. Because I worked with a lot of musicians then, we had a band, and because they were quite well known in our area, we had all the town's kids hanging off our fence to watch the show. We did not ask them to perform. It was their gift to us. How could we say no?

Unfortunately, their very politically oriented music is not to everyone's taste and most of our guest didn't care for it :lmao:

Sorry bennielou for highjacking your thread. I'll shut up now.


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## robertwsimpson (Apr 20, 2010)

bennielou said:


> robertwsimpson said:
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> > Well, I am not involved in the market directly, other than my one experience (which is not even complete yet), so that's why I included the last "maybe I'm wrong" part. In truth, my wife handled all of the wedding stuff, as I am working on a house for us to move into. She hired a friend who she has followed since she began taking photos. She was very familiar with her work. Also, maybe I was unclear in my description, but of course the people with point and shoot cameras were not taking consistently good photos... The thing is that the sheer number of cameras and sets of eyes guarantees a few really good shots in my opinion. Could we have counted on our guests to capture every important moment in pristine clarity, convey emotion, frame correctly, shoot with any kind of DoF effect, and all of this in a quality that we could print at a large size and hang on our wall? No, definitely not. Is it worth the money to guarantee all of these things? Maybe, maybe not.
> ...



Sorry, I am not explaining myself very well at all.  To preclude the belief that her disappointment was due to anything that the photographer did, let me say that she was shooting with her husband (he was doing the table shots at the reception, and the easy stuff) and they were using 2 5dmkII bodies, and all the L glass you could shake several sticks at.  She also takes really really nice photographs.  They had all of the bases covered.  The thing that was amazing is that other people were able to get equally amazing shots by accident.  You can buy a G11 for like $500 and take really amazing photographs.  This technology is becoming available to the masses, and more and more people are "oopsing" into really good photos.  With 20-30 of these cameras snapping pics all day long, some of the photos were bound to be good.  The disappointing thing was that even though it was a source of friction before the wedding, we decided to pony up the cash and pay this girl to take our photos.  My wife was expecting leap off the screen amazing photos, and what we have seen so far I guess did not meet that expectation.  I'm not sure.  This girl has a different style than I like, so I'm not exactly talking her up either.  Anyway, I hope I am explaining everything well.  lol.


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## bennielou (Apr 20, 2010)

robertwsimpson said:


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I understand you, and I also feel bad about your experience.

Some of this  is the camera.  It's just a few clicks.  But the main thing is to know 'WHEN" to press the shutter and why.  And even more importantly how to set the camera to get ready for it.

All the L glass in the world doesn't matter if the photographer has no idea what to do with it.


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## Overread (Apr 20, 2010)

c.cloudwalker said:


> erose86 said:
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I have to say I agree on both counts - heck some people even if they have $40000 would rather spend it on something else they can really have fun with (say a nice really long holiday/honeymoon etc...) than the wedding day.
And yah sometimes forum wedding types never seem to accept that there is anything but the top end of the wedding market out there


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## c.cloudwalker (Apr 20, 2010)

erose86 said:


> Keith or I would have had to perform the whole night at our own wedding



and we were not about to ask our friends, photogs or musicians, to work at our wedding. We wanted them to have fun with us. Period.

Overread: :thumbup:


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