# Why would you out another photographer?



## craig (Jun 13, 2009)

Publicly in forums. I have seen enough threads were this goes down. So ask you why? Did someone make you upset? Did your feelings get hurt? Do you actually think you are better then someone else? Do you think this bashing adds to the validity of the thread? 

Where I come from you never put down anyone. NEVER. I have been in photography my whole life. Photographers never publicly out other photographers. Now I am sure that I am slightly guilty of this crime. Trying hard not to be such a wisenheimer...

Personally I feel the maturity level of TPF has been on a steady decline. I have been a member here for years and I refuse to let this place go to the dogs. Shape up or ship out people.

Not a whole lot of Love and Bass at this moment in time.


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## Joves (Jun 13, 2009)

I too have noticed alot of snide type remarks lately, from alot of names I dont recognize.


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## craig (Jun 13, 2009)

Not sure if this is a trend or what. MM has a strict rule of not allowing "outing anybody". There are certainly some forums where this is the norm. Dogs On Acid :: The world's largest dance music forum: Drum and Bass / Jungle message board with news, reviews, dubplates, audio, video, mixes, merchandise, clothing... comes to mind as well as the JeepForum.com - Jeep & Off-Road Discussion Community. Very confused as to why this goes down.

Love & Bass


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## Overread (Jun 13, 2009)

THIS TOPIC ADDRESSES WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS ANYMORE!!!

The problem is simple - the report post button is not flashing and shining in neon lights.

What tends to happen is one perons insults the other - then maybe a few others join in or not - then someone decides to stand up for the insulted party and insultss the insulters - fastforward till the next mod wakes up and we have a long 3 page thread of rants and ravings which is locked because at that point most people are as bad as each other..

Guys you have to learn to use the report post command - TPF is avery active community and very big - the mods do their best but they can't be everywhere at once. Report the post - make your own in the thread if you wish to address the topic at hand and then move on..


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## RyanLilly (Jun 13, 2009)

I have noticed more comments being made that have no value, and simply come from arrogance. The sad part is that I have seen these response that were supposedly "matter of fact," but completly wrong. We need to stay on topic and offer constructivev responses. Sometimes I do post an occasional jokeing response, but I make it clear that it is a joke, and I believe that the op will appriciate a lighthearted response.


Craig, my first thought when I read "outing photographers" was, "There are in the closet photographers? What, are they ashamed to bee see with us!?"


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## Joves (Jun 13, 2009)

RyanLilly said:


> I have noticed more comments being made that have no value, and simply come from arrogance. The sad part is that I have seen these response that were supposedly "matter of fact," but completly wrong. We need to stay on topic and offer constructivev responses. Sometimes I do post an occasional jokeing response, but I make it clear that it is a joke, and I believe that the op will appriciate a lighthearted response.
> 
> 
> Craig, my first thought when I read "outing photographers" was, "There are in the closet photographers? What, are they ashamed to bee see with us!?"


  Well I though something else on outing but, the same closet or, another one who knows. And there are some people here you can tell are joking.


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## craig (Jun 13, 2009)

Excellent replies thus far gang. I know there is a positive future. 

Ryan Lilly: Your humor is very appropriate. Laughing out loud. Fo Sho!

Overread and everyone else... You are wise beyond your years. 

Love & Bass


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## Yemme (Jun 13, 2009)

I thought it was about putting personal business of another individual out in the streets.  Just because things went south.  Some people don't know how to remain professional if you have a disagreement with someone.

It is sad... but it also boils down to the type of world we live in today.


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## craig (Jun 13, 2009)

Yemme said:


> I thought it was about putting personal business of another individual out in the streets.  Just because things went south.  Some people don't know how to remain professional if you have a disagreement with someone.
> 
> It is sad... but it also boils down to the type of world we live in today.



Could be the type of world we live in. I refuse to live in that world. If we concetrate on the positive the negative will slide.

Love & Bass


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## EhJsNe (Jun 13, 2009)

YOu guys are all stupid for wanting peace in the forums.  

Just kidding, just my wierd sense of humor....had to say something to that effect.

I have to say....I do have my share of unprofessional "tiffs" hehehe...photo forum...tiff..hehehe bad pictures.....hahah......(ok...just ignore my horrible pun...) but still, craig, you make a good point.

I have noticed a few thread locked with like 10 pages of back and forth arguing and whatnot, and I personaly find it quite fun to read. Especially when its equipment related or the ever popular NIkon vs Canon debate, those are alwasy fun to read.

The world we live isnt all to great...society is just becoming more lenient on what is acceptable.

I say we have little boxing gloves attatched to springs on every monitor of every "TPF"er and if the say something that is offensive or rude or disrespectful, a litle button on the post will read "Punch Poster in Face in the most Comical Way Possible"


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## Yemme (Jun 13, 2009)

Where are these fighting threads?  I only go in about 3 sections so not sure where they would be... Dish the info...


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## lugnut (Jun 13, 2009)

it's a plain and simple fact that the internet (for some reason) makes people say things that they wouldn't say if they were standing infront of an actual person. i got to A LOT of forums and moderate on a few as well and i've only seen like 2 forums where people don't argue about something and that's only because they're small forums.

i will say this; i haven't seen that much of it here but i don't go all over this site either. i'm in the same boat with yemme.


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## craig (Jun 14, 2009)

EhJsNe said:


> YOu guys are all stupid for wanting peace in the forums.
> 
> Just kidding, just my wierd sense of humor....had to say something to that effect.
> 
> ...



Brilliant train of thought!

Yemme: The fighting thread that was the last straw in the Camels' back was  http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...weddings-geeze-everyone-can-photographer.html 

Love & Bass


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## Yemme (Jun 14, 2009)

Oh dear ....  I see what you mean Craig.... See that's why I like to start fun threads...  I like to laugh.


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## craig (Jun 14, 2009)

Yes! Laughter and music is the key. 

Love & Bass


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## Chiller (Jun 14, 2009)

I found a simple solution.  Just stop post here.  :mrgreen:


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## musicaleCA (Jun 14, 2009)

craig said:


> Yemme: The fighting thread that was the last straw in the Camels' back was  http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...weddings-geeze-everyone-can-photographer.html
> 
> Love & Bass



That thread did take a pretty nasty turn for the worse, didn't it? Blarg; sorry if I'm contributing to that "new guy PITA" effect. >.<

But come on. We all suck, obviously. Screw the Nikon/Canon debate; that's just wasted hot air. You can't take a good image without a camera from these guys. </lame joke>


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## Overread (Jun 14, 2009)

Yemme said:


> Where are these fighting threads?  I only go in about 3 sections so not sure where they would be... Dish the info...



mostly weddings and some portrait work based threads I notice - but mostly weddings.
Nature, landscape, etc... these sections seem to avoid pretty much all of the fights, but as soon as weddings are mentioned out come the claws. Portraits can also generate similar responces.

Heck its generally any situation where the op displays in interest in financial gain from their photography whilst not being a master photographer. 

The argument is that many use is that its better long term to turn these poorer photographers away from such work as it lowers the quality of all photographers and such, but that is a load of rubbish. If the forum mistreats someone guess what = they leave bitter against the membership here and generally will ignor most/all the advice given and go somewhere else. Its not about pandering to them nor about sugar coating, its about people being able to convey their thoughts and opinions without insulting the other party = sadly many people suffer from this (even one or two rather experienced photographers who really are worth listening to can have problems conveying their thoughts.)

anyone think that wedding threads should be banned like nikon vs canon ones? I don't think we want that to happen, but based on what tends to happen in such threads and the fact that many people seem unable to correct their ways it might be the least painfull course of action.


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## Bill19 (Jun 14, 2009)

I have to admit, i thought twice before i joined here after i saw some threads, but the majority seemed fine! I go on 2 small nature forums, 2 large fishkeeping forums, and 2 small fishkeeping forums (yeh i am a bit of a forum nut) and the nature ones are usually fine, there is one grumpy person on one of them, which some times cause problems, but on the large fishkeeping forums, there is some times lots of debates on tank sizes care etc, us fish keepers get quite nasty if we see a fish being mistreated! me included! It cus were passionate, whether these feuds are because of passion or just immaturity, i dont know, but eh it keeps us on our toes!


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## abraxas (Jun 14, 2009)

craig said:


> Publicly in forums. I have seen enough threads were this goes down. So ask you why? Did someone make you upset? Did your feelings get hurt? Do you actually think you are better then someone else? Do you think this bashing adds to the validity of the thread?
> 
> Where I come from you never put down anyone. NEVER. I have been in photography my whole life. Photographers never publicly out other photographers. Now I am sure that I am slightly guilty of this crime. Trying hard not to be such a wisenheimer...
> 
> ...



Craig, I've met you in person and know you to be a real and tangible person, probably posessing a soul.  Although I do not always agree with you, I read your posts, consider about what they say, and have actually changed my way of thinking on some subjects as a result. You are an asset to TPF.

The _'straw thread'_ is a prime example of why I feel my role here is, for the most part, over (as well as the stupid-ass _'thank you' _psuedo-rating system).  How would reading that kind of unmitigated crap supposed to help me improve as a photographer?--Only in the way that it tells me it is time to move on.

You and a few others still make it worth checking in once and awhile.  But TPF makes me feel dead inside any more--There's damn little passion.  It's more about sleezy trailer park politics, and making oneself look good by making others look bad.  Most everyone here thinks they know what a 'bad' photographer is, what a 'good' photographer is, and yet, very few seem to be actually working to improve themselves and provide by example.

Truly, best of luck to you sir.



Chiller said:


> I found a simple solution.  Just stop post here.  :mrgreen:



:thumbup:


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## Overread (Jun 14, 2009)

defeatists


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## inTempus (Jun 14, 2009)

Overread said:


> anyone think that wedding threads should be banned like nikon vs canon ones? I don't think we want that to happen, but based on what tends to happen in such threads and the fact that many people seem unable to correct their ways it might be the least painfull course of action.


You just say that because you suck at wedding photography.




Hehe, just kidding.  I'm bored on a Sunday morning.


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## Overread (Jun 14, 2009)

tharmsen said:


> You just say that because you suck at wedding photography.
> Hehe, just kidding.  I'm bored on a Sunday morning.



 but its true 

Sheep Walk 1000 - a set on Flickr

my sheep come out better than humans -- humans are all tricky..........


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## Chris of Arabia (Jun 14, 2009)

craig said:


> Yemme: The fighting thread that was the last straw in the Camels' back was  http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...weddings-geeze-everyone-can-photographer.html
> 
> Love & Bass



I'd not actually read that thread until seeing this particular discussion. It did appear to have gone a little wonky a few posts back, but seems to have stabilised for the moment. I'm not immediately inclined to lock it, despite at least one member having reported it as a problem. It's a topic that's always likely to be on the provocative side, but there's no reason why the debate shouldn't continue so long as it can remain reasonably civil. :hugs:

Remember, opinions are like *rs*h*l*s, everybody has one and they all stink...


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## table1349 (Jun 14, 2009)

Chris of Arabia said:


> craig said:
> 
> 
> > Yemme: The fighting thread that was the last straw in the Camels' back was  http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...weddings-geeze-everyone-can-photographer.html
> ...




Is that how we get away with saying words like B*LL*CKS???


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## Chris of Arabia (Jun 14, 2009)

gryphonslair99 said:


> Is that how we get away with saying words like B*LL*CKS???



Certainly how I do it... :mrgreen:


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## Overread (Jun 14, 2009)

I hate wordgames!......


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## ANDS! (Jun 14, 2009)

Simple.  This forum is full of know-it-alls.  And the know-it-alls themselves don't get called out (generally) on their faulty know-it-all behavior, and thus they spread the tain of their know-it-all'ness to others, and it grows exponentially until you create a climate of Know-It-All fever.  

Well, when an outsider strolls into the forums, and asks a question not in line with the know-it-all's world view, the shiznit hits the fan as the (by then) hordes descend upon the unsuspecting, beating the New Guy into submission with sheer numbers, because no know-it-all could actually accomplish their means on their own.


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## Mike_E (Jun 14, 2009)

The problem is egos you see.  Everyone has one but the ones that get over inflated (usually by an MFI [major flatulence inversion]) are the fragile ones due to their stretched condition.

It seems that the only way to correct the inversion is to bump against someone with a real point speaking pointedly so that the MFI sufferer has enough holes poked into their egos by the pointy points to let the noxious filler escape so that their feet are finally planted back on Tera-firma while they wonder what the vile odor is and wonder away-hopefully to change their diet.

So, all of you please keep honing your points so that you too may save these poor souls from simply floating away so preoccupied with a suspiciously warm feeling that they fail to notice the foul vapor which causes them to loose their way.

Thank you all in advance for you kindness and vigilance in this matter.


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## MrsMoo (Jun 14, 2009)

craig said:


> Yemme: The fighting thread that was the last straw in the Camels' back was  http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...weddings-geeze-everyone-can-photographer.html
> 
> Love & Bass




I think I'd be included in this post as one of the people who think they know how to shoot a wedding etc

but tbh, I was doing a favor for a friend who has little money, and like someone in that discussion said, some not so good photos are better than none.

The wedding party were very pleased with the photos I took, and I was really nervous. IMHO I done pretty well for my first wedding, condsidering I dont have the "best equipment" or alot of confidence behind the camera


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## Yemme (Jun 14, 2009)

Chiller said:


> I found a simple solution.  Just stop post here.  :mrgreen:


It doesn't seem to be happening...  Maybe soon...


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## JerryPH (Jun 15, 2009)

You mean like saying "STOP POST" here as a way to vent instead of tearing down a thread further?

Ok, I can live with that.  

This is my STOP POST on the thread mentioned.  I've had my say and will be nice and not post there anymore.


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## Yemme (Jun 15, 2009)

Hi Jerry:hug::... Haven't seen you in a while... Watcha doin'?


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## craig (Jun 16, 2009)

JerryPH said:


> You mean like saying "STOP POST" here as a way to vent instead of tearing down a thread further?
> 
> Ok, I can live with that.
> 
> This is my STOP POST on the thread mentioned.  I've had my say and will be nice and not post there anymore.



Do you have a link to your work?

Love & Bass


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## manaheim (Jun 16, 2009)

When these threads pop up I often wonder if I'm one of the accused or one of the "good guys". (eek)  So, that being said...

It seems like people who hang out here tend to get irked at TPF after a while.  This very thread comes up now and again, like a lot of the others.  Occasionally it turns into ideas about how to create a newer and better TPF world... most of those ideas seem to kinda fizzle.

When I first came to TPF I knew basically nothing about photography, and I have learned an ASTRONOMICAL amount from many of you since being here... lately I find I don't tend to learn as much, and I think this becomes the rub for folks who have been around longer... they are more the teacher and have less teachers of their own... they become more the object of admiration and have fewer folks to look up to...

(btw, I'm not saying I'm a photo god... ... I think I have a good technical handle, but most of my stuff is soul-less shots of buidings... I look up to a LOT of people on these forums for their artistry _and_ technical mastery)

I wish there were more people with such creativity that would post more, but a lot of them have been chased away (such as Chiller).

For me, I _think _I only tend to get smarmy when I think someone else is being unfair or unkind to others.  To be honest, this is not my duty or place and I feel somewhat guilty for it.  I am not the self-appointed police man of TPF... that being said, I do feel a bit defensive about this place and feel the need to protect the community... despite it's various flaws, there is a lot of very positive things going on here and I think that should be valued and protected.

I'm kind of rambling, so I think I'll shut up now.


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## UUilliam (Jun 16, 2009)

i personally just tell what i think, if i dislike an image i will say so or i wont comment at all, if you have nothing nice to say dont say anything at all i suppose, 
but if however i did post, i would also post what i feel could improve it

i would only expect the same treatment back, i feel if people dislike my images, it makes me more determied to make it better until they are of peoples expectations


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## Overread (Jun 16, 2009)

UUilliam I don't htink people here are talking about disliking anothers work in the way you mean - they are more hinting at coments like

"your work sucks give up now"
"your not worth that camera"
"you should get a better camera then try"

etc...

Insulting and unconstructive comments - what you describe is certainly acceptable, voicing your viewpoints and giving what advice you can to make alterations to the image.


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## Josh66 (Jun 16, 2009)

Overread said:


> "your work sucks give up now"
> "your not worth that camera"
> "you should get a better camera then try"


 

I don't think I've seen anything quite _that_ bad on here.

I think that would be over the line though.  I think some people are a little short or rude sometimes, but I don't see very many personal insults (not saying it doesn't happen).
There's no reason for that.

I think some of it is simply a misunderstanding - so hard to know what people really mean just reading words in a little box.

Some of it is also just the way people are.


We have a lot of people like that at work...  It used to be, that everyone would watch out for eachother.  Now, there are people that will sit there and watch someone make a mistake, knowing full well that it was going to happen.
Just so they can go tell the boss "Hey, you won't believe what Bob just did".

They think it will get them in good with the boss.  What they don't realize is that the boss has no power do do anything (union shop - management has pretty limited authority over the workers...).  They think it will make the 'right people' like them more, *but really it just makes them an asshole*.

Same thing here.


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## Yemme (Jun 16, 2009)

I've met a lot of great people since I've been here.  Mostly from the sex in photography thread.  I tried 3 photography forums and this one was the winner.  It feels like a family to me.  I'm a friendly person and everyone seemed to have a connection and no one looked down at another.  I haven't seen these fights until something was said.  But I do know that people are leaving TPF and have left TPF ...it does make me sad .  I hope it wasn't for this reason.   In life not everyone will like you and not everyone is polite.  For those who are rude ... It's a personal problem.  Just as long as those who are civil to each other remain the forum will be fine.  :er:......I hope.


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## SrBiscuit (Jun 16, 2009)

a major downside to the ease of being "published" on the internet is that modesty and humility go right out the window.
there are a good group of diehards here who i have REALLY learned a lot from.

im sure im guilty of being a poop on here, but i do my best to keep in mind that i am here to learn, and i am certainly no authority on any aspect of photography.

it sucks to see some of the long time members (who are in that group of people i learn from) stop coming to TPF. this sudden influx of cocky wannabes is too bad, as it only takes a few to ruin the community. (not saying ALL the problems come from new members).
ive only been here since may or june of 2008, and i too have seen a decline. 

let's get TPF back to the friendly teaching community i stumbled on a year ago.:thumbup:


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## manaheim (Jun 16, 2009)

I wonder how much of this is akin to the whole Socrates saying the world is going to hell in a handbasket thing... or to make it a bit more close to our times... "Kids these days!!!"

In other words, the current set of "oldsters" always think that the world is going to a bad place from which there can never be a recovery... and yet, for some reason, the world they refer to survives and flourishes long enough for the NEXT batch of oldsters to think the same thing.


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## abraxas (Jun 16, 2009)

"Teaching?"  "Learning?"

Geeze, does anyone think there's a category, a priority, above that?

Certainly TPF management can't see it.  These assholes think they have a regular fu*king university here- and apparently many, many, many, of the members here think so, also.

It's not worth typing the words. Most wouldn't understand the concept anyhow--

-


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## abraxas (Jun 16, 2009)

manaheim said:


> I wonder how much of this is akin to the whole Socrates saying the world is going to hell in a handbasket thing... or to make it a bit more close to our times... "Kids these days!!!"
> 
> In other words, the current set of "oldsters" always think that the world is going to a bad place from which there can never be a recovery... and yet, for some reason, the world they refer to survives and flourishes long enough for the NEXT batch of oldsters to think the same thing.



You flatter yourself.


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## SrBiscuit (Jun 16, 2009)

abraxas said:


> "Teaching?" "Learning?"
> 
> Geeze, does anyone think there's a category, a priority, above that?
> 
> ...


 
a university? no.
a chance to discuss something we all like? yes.
a chance to walk away with something we didnt know before? sure.
a chance to pass on some knowledge to someone else? *GASP* maybe!

can you dumb down your concept for the TPFU students, so we might understand?


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## abraxas (Jun 16, 2009)

SrBiscuit said:


> a university? no.
> a chance to discuss something we all like? yes.
> a chance to walk away with something we didnt know before? sure.
> a chance to pass on some knowledge to someone else? *GASP* maybe!
> ...



And there, in a nutshell, is the problem.

Good luck with that.


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## PhotoXopher (Jun 16, 2009)

_Why would you out another photographer?_

Ego.


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## Josh66 (Jun 16, 2009)

No loyalty is the problem.

Not just with TPF - the world in general.


We should be helping each other, but instead everyone wants to keep their secrets to themselves and let everyone else fail.


Most people would rather watch someone else fail than help them.


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## PhotoXopher (Jun 16, 2009)

Sad, but true.


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## Dmitri (Jun 16, 2009)

craig said:


> Personally I feel the maturity level of TPF has been on a steady decline. I have been a member here for years and I refuse to let this place go to the dogs. Shape up or ship out people.
> 
> Not a whole lot of Love and Bass at this moment in time.



I hope this isn't taken as rude or snide, but my first thought on reading this from you, Craig, was something about a pot and a kettle.


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## abraxas (Jun 16, 2009)

O|||||||O said:


> No loyalty is the problem.
> 
> Not just with TPF - the world in general.
> 
> ...





N0YZE said:


> Sad, but true.



Looks like assumptions. Those are fun.  Here's a few to consider;

Why assume the world is withholding knowlege from you?

Why assume the world owes you loyalty?

Why assume you're better than making an effort and doing some actual studying?

Why assume the world has the time to help someone that has made the above assumptions?

[edit]
Why assume the world gives a crap if you fail or succeed?
[/edit]

Sounds like blame the oldtimers for not feeling sorry for you.




-


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## PhotoXopher (Jun 16, 2009)

Nah, times have changed... neighbors that have lived next to each other for years don't even know each others first names. Used to be neighbors helped neighbors, now everyone keeps to themselves.


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## manaheim (Jun 16, 2009)

abraxas said:


> manaheim said:
> 
> 
> > I wonder how much of this is akin to the whole Socrates saying the world is going to hell in a handbasket thing... or to make it a bit more close to our times... "Kids these days!!!"
> ...


 
That was an excellent example of the kind of thing I think you are generally railing against.

Did I say I was the oldster decrying youth?  No.
Did I say I was the youth saying the oldsters were being foolish?  No.

I know you're frustrated and irritated, but your approach seems to only be making things worse.


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## abraxas (Jun 16, 2009)

manaheim said:


> ...
> 
> I know you're frustrated and irritated, but your approach seems to only be making things worse.



Interesting. How do you "know" this?

Again, you flatter yourself.

-


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## SrBiscuit (Jun 16, 2009)

abraxas said:


> SrBiscuit said:
> 
> 
> > a university? no.
> ...


 
awesome! :hug::

i dont get the problem. (obvious to you, i know)

you, sir, are one of the old schoolers on here i was referring to as someone whose images i like to look at and, dare i say, even walked away interested in your compositions and why you shot what you shot the way you shot it. now, i know you don't give a **** what anybody takes away from your images, but im glad you're on this site.

is it BAD to learn or teach something? i don't know man...i dont think learning or teaching can ever be bad.

im disappointed that you wont expand on why you seem to think it's bad. is it an attempt to feign a higher level of understanding what this community is "supposed" to be?

i guess to you i'm just another moron trying to soak up others' knowledge, but im just here because i like photography. if i get something or give something along the way, so be it. my bad.


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## Josh66 (Jun 16, 2009)

abraxas said:


> Sounds like blame the oldtimers for not feeling sorry for you.



Well, I can't speak for everyone...  But I don't really care what other people think.

I only come here to occupy my time while I'm not doing something else.
(Well, that's not the _only_ reason...  But-)


When I said that there is no loyalty anymore maybe I used the wrong word (but I think it was close enough that you know what I meant).
Yes, I think that loyalty has to be earned - Like respect, it is something that develops over time.

I think more than assumptions, they are observations.  It IS happening, and denying it will not make it go away.



abraxas said:


> Why assume you're better than making an effort and doing some actual studying?


I don't know where that came from...

I don't know if it was directed towards me, or just a general comment - but I don't feel that it applies to me.


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## manaheim (Jun 16, 2009)

abraxas said:


> manaheim said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...


 
EDIT: I just can't in earnest respond to this in a way that it needs in a thread about why people should not call each other out and be viscious to each other and stuff.

I'll just say I don't think this was very neighborly and be done.

Moving on.


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## Chiller (Jun 16, 2009)

I was not going to reply to this thread , but checked in while answering a PM>   These threads constantly spin crazily out of control.   Back in the day, when TPF was a small community, it was like a small town, a few leaders, and people became friends, shared their visions, and laughed at our mistakes,  but now, it has become the big metropolis with big metropolis ideas, and leaders,$$$,attitude, and crap.   The owners dont care, cause, if one person leaves, 15 join(not accurate numbers, but you get the point, I hope)   They are making their money, like a bad sports team. People still come out and pay $$ to subscribe to this BS, and to the ones that leave....who cares. They are still making their little piece of $$ with this cheesy advertising, and I can bet that they have no idea that threads like this exist, cause they are counting their money.  It is not about photography here anymore.   This is nothing more then a social site for people to play Ego on.  
 I have seen some awesome photographers leave, and to be honest, yet to see people come on board and match their quality of photography.
  My decision to cut my posts back to nil, was because of this new attitude that many of the newer members have brought to TPF.(and a few other personal reasons) The new owners dont care, modship is non existant(if it is because of the lack of mods...bloody hell get more then) 

  Yes I have the balls to handle critique, and I need a lot of things stroked, but my ego is not one of them.  Im willing to help anyone, and will share any ideas, as that is part of learning. 

 And as for this old vs young.....who cares.  Just freekin get along, and check your attitude and baggage at the door.  If everyone was that good, they wouldnt be here in the first place. 

Gotta run....the maid is at my crypt door. :mrgreen:


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## JerryPH (Jun 16, 2009)

O|||||||O said:


> No loyalty is the problem.
> 
> Not just with TPF - the world in general.
> We should be helping each other, but instead everyone wants to keep their secrets to themselves and let everyone else fail.
> Most people would rather watch someone else fail than help them.



That is not outing a photographer, that is just keeping secrets.  Though that train of thought would make for a very boring forum... lol

I found a lot of people in real life that are very open and helpful, especially when you can talk face to face.  I also do the same, when I can.


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## Overread (Jun 16, 2009)

pssst guys I think we are all going in circles a bit here - and yes I will say that since I see pretty much the same people appearing now as in the previous threads 

come on now lets try to  talk about how to CHANGE things for the BETTER rather than constantly go over and over the bad side of things. All it does is reinforce the bad feelings and vibs and also makes things feel far worse than they actually are!

anyone up for the new social groups running? There is still space in group 4 and many more space for more groups! (an not one of you is in one either!)
The Photo Forum - Photography Discussion Forum - CandC Practice: Group 4


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## manaheim (Jun 16, 2009)

^^^ I have a ton of respect for Overread constantly being at the forefront of positive thoughts in this and other areas. Kudos to you, man. Wish I had your perspective... particularly now where I'm sitting here wondering why I even log in here anymore.


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## JerryPH (Jun 16, 2009)

Overread said:


> pssst guys I think we are all going in circles a bit here - and yes I will say that since I see pretty much the same people appearing now as in the previous threads



I tried that before... it turned into a locked thread... LOL!


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## Overread (Jun 16, 2009)

manaheim said:


> ^^^ I have a ton of respect for Overread constantly being at the forefront of positive thoughts in this and other areas. Kudos to you, man. Wish I had your perspective... particularly now where I'm sitting here wondering why I even log in here anymore.



Seriously with the exception of weddings (and I note your not into doing those just yet) most threads are not that dire! the worst that happens is that a thread gets ignored and (secret fact here) that happens on EVERY photo forum I am on (and I mean not just to me ). 

Networking and making contacts is key 
being posetive and not taking every ignored thread as a sign that you should give up or are hated
remembering that just because every post you do get says that they love it does not mean your fantastic
remembering that most people that say they like something to actually mean it as well! 
And sometimes you just have to bump a few times!

Honestly you lot are your own worst enemies in these things when you all get together in a thread!


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## manaheim (Jun 16, 2009)

meh I just get tired of feeling like either I am inadvertantly the cause of ill will, or when I am the focus of it.

I have enough crap to worry about with people sniping at each other at work.  Don't necessarily need any more of it.


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## Josh66 (Jun 16, 2009)

JerryPH said:


> I found a lot of people in real life [...]



Please explain...


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## Chiller (Jun 16, 2009)

Overread said:


> pssst guys I think we are all going in circles a bit here - and yes I will say that since I see pretty much the same people appearing now as in the previous threads
> 
> *come on now lets try to talk about how to CHANGE things for the BETTER rather than constantly go over and over the bad side of things. All it does is reinforce the bad feelings and vibs and also makes things feel far worse than they actually are!*
> 
> anyone up for the new social groups running? There is still space in group 4 and many more space for more groups! (an not one of you is in one either!)


 
Dude....I appreciate you trying to change things.  Been there done that, but who is listening.  I think the forum could be fixed for the better, but like every other good corporation, it has to start at the top, to want it changed.   I wish you all the best sir.:thumbup::thumbup:  as I dont think I will be part of that mission and will stay away, and watch the fights.
 Some know how I feel, and I have suggested stuff before, but it goes in one ear and out the other.  You know where I'll be. :lmao:


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## Hawaii Five-O (Jun 16, 2009)

Back when I joined here, it was a pretty good place. But then I started posting too much and got familiar with other peoples' post style. Then it became kind of annoying and boring. Because its like " oh gosh theres that obnoxious internet person again,they're everywhere". And then you feel like posting some stupid comment back at the obnoxious e-person.

I think its better if people don't get too familiar with an internet forum. Posts some stuff here and there and thats it.

its those blasted digital people that are the trouble makers j/k. 

The film people are cool though


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## abraxas (Jun 16, 2009)

First, the question in the OP...

Sometimes the **** gets so thick, some people should get outed, called out, whatever you want to call it.  What a load of crap. ****ing know-it-alls.

What's it all about?  Is it really that hard for you heads to figure out?

Entertainment.

-
Anything else, seriously, you're kidding yourself.

-


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