# Weddings - Set or Unlimited Hours



## Lyncca (Sep 16, 2009)

When you shoot a wedding, do you offer "unlimited" hours or do you set a range and then charge for over and beyond? Such as 10 hours and anything over is X an hour.

The reason I am asking is that as second shooter, I have been going to weddings and they are lasting 14+ hours, starting early in the morning with the bride getting ready. I can barely stand by the end of the night, and that isn't counting the typical hour+ drive on each end either. I'm completely greatful for the experience, and I have a blast and all, but $150 for that length of time is starting to not be as worth it as I get better and better myself and want to start doing lead shooting.  Also, to be away from my family for a day+ (if I must stay over night) needs to be worth it financially.

I'm just curious how everyone else charges. Maybe if I was a 5K photographer I would feel more greatful, but a 16 hour day for $1500 and all the processing time? I'm thinking of adding $150 each additional hour or so, but I don't want to lose clients because of it either.

The extra time always ends up being from following the bride around all morning, so they don't seem to count that in when they are thinking of how many hours they need to hire a photographer for and by then the contract is signed and you can't just walk out in the middle of the reception.


----------



## astrostu (Sep 16, 2009)

I think the typical idea is that folks will have a set number of hours they'll work that go with any wedding package.  Additional time is at an hourly rate.  I think this is a good idea, personally, since it forces the couple to figure out what they really want you for rather than saying, "be there all day and shoot everything!"


----------



## Lyncca (Sep 16, 2009)

Seriously! I agree.  We were at the salon for 4 hours watching them get their hair and makeup done at the last one.  I think that some "getting ready" pics of her putting her dress on and maybe reapplying lipstick would have been sufficient instead of several hundred (trashed) shots we took out of boredom at the salon and trying to look like we were "working".


----------



## Big Mike (Sep 16, 2009)

I have been basing my packages on either hours of coverage, or 'events' covered....and yes, extra hours are charged.  I think my top package is unlimited hours...or up to 12, I forget.

What I'd like to do, is just have one rate.  It covers 12 or 14 hours (additional time cost extra).  If they only want coverage for the ceremony & formals...it's still the same price.  Of course, to pull that off, you need to have people coming to you because they really like your style and don't care about the price....at which point, your prices should be nice and high anyway.



> but a 16 hour day for $1500 and all the processing time?


I think that price is too low for that much coverage.  If you are going to be spending that much time shooting a wedding (not to mention all the shots you take in that time), then you had better make it worth your while.


----------



## ScottsdaleImages (Sep 16, 2009)

I think set times are best, unless you are extremely high end and they come to you for your style and are paying for it. Something like 5-7-9 hours, lets you cover the small, med, and larger weddings. It also allows you to discuss the starting time, and when exactly you will be done. So that if they are running late, they will either add time, or know they will be missing some images. Then tell them about your hourly rate.


----------



## FrankLamont (Sep 16, 2009)

I do packages, but then I also have a base fee (just to make sure I get something).

It covers 6 hours coverage, post processing, etc. then any additional hours... more money.


----------



## athomasimage (Sep 17, 2009)

The 1st question out of a Bride is "How much do you charge?". I generally respond with "I don't know - but if we talk about your wedding and what you need, I can put a package together for you". To me there are several factors that effect the cost. Length of day, size of wedding party, flower girl, ring bearer, length of wedding dress. All this has an impact on the length of the day, is an assistant needed? and this all adds up to a final amount.

I have a price sheet (1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and full day, with or without assistant). I can send it to the bride, so she can see that range of prices. In my mind it boils down to what the bride wants and what resources are needed to supply a quality product. Then at that point if the price is too high, we can drop price by pulling out services or deliverable. I don't drop the hourly rate, I drop delivery/deliverable.

Oh, by the way, I have a prominent statement on my wedding web page in effect stating "I do not shoot and burn", explaining why. If they want what I offer fine, if not go find some one who will give them what they want (a CD of full file images).

Oh, I also list a rate for extra time.  This way if the clients decides they want me to extend the day at their request, they will know what anount they will be billed.

I refer them to a couple posts on my blog that discuss some of these issues and list my philosophy. You are welcome to read them - linked below.

Copyrights, CDâ&#8364;&#8482;S and Discount Printing â&#8364;&#8220; OH MY! « Athomasimage's Blog

Youâ&#8364;&#8482;ve got a CD with 1000 images, Now what? « Athomasimage's Blog


----------



## Lyncca (Sep 17, 2009)

athomasimage said:


> The 1st question out of a Bride is "How much do you charge?". I generally respond with "I don't know - but if we talk about your wedding and what you need, I can put a package together for you". To me there are several factors that effect the cost. Length of day, size of wedding party, flower girl, ring bearer, length of wedding dress. All this has an impact on the length of the day, is an assistant needed? and this all adds up to a final amount.
> 
> I have a price sheet (1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and full day, with or without assistant). I can send it to the bride, so she can see that range of prices. In my mind it boils down to what the bride wants and what resources are needed to supply a quality product. Then at that point if the price is too high, we can drop price by pulling out services or deliverable. I don't drop the hourly rate, I drop delivery/deliverable.
> 
> ...


 

Thanks Thomas.  I just want to add that I am not and refuse to be a "shoot and burn" photographer.  I go through all of my images and edit them fully and the client only receives the top images.  I don't just burn a bunch of files and walk away.  Of course, the two things I lose are control of the printing lab, which I talk to my clients about and possibly additional prints.  

I didn't offer CDs initially, but everyone around here does it including the very top professionals.  When I didn't offer it, every single person walked away even after telling all the arguments you list.  The top photographers seem to focus their after sales on those products that can't be purchased at Walmart such as nice canvases, albums and specialty products.

I guess different methods work for different people and locations


----------



## Christie Photo (Sep 17, 2009)

ummm....  old guy here...

When I shot film, along with the rest of the world, I would tell couples they get four hours coverage and plan on giving them six.  I would start about an hour before the ceremony and shoot about an hour into the reception.  I tried to have everything done by time they sat down for dinner.  I did all the shooting.  Typically, I made around 150 exposures with a goal of showing about 120.  This really wasn't all that long ago...  less than 10 years.

These days, I start about 3 hours before the ceremony and work until the bouquet toss...  more like 78 hours.  I like to have at least 350 images to show, and I do have a second shooter for all but the formals.  I will sit for dinner now.  I never used to fearing if I missed a shot, they'd remember me sitting, stuffing my face and use that to complain.

What it comes down to for me (and I do explain this to the couple when booking), they don't have to worry about me leaving without getting everything they want.  

I do, however, remind them that it's a long day for us.  I'm willing to wait a REASONABLE amount of time, but will not sit idle for an hour or more waiting for one more photo because someone is missing or something memorable might happen.  Some part of this is the reasoning that we, my helper and myself, are professionals.  We will not be on "stand by," waiting for someone to tell us to "jump." 

I go to them and their mothers at the end of the night, thank them, tell them we made all the photos on their check list and ask if they can think of anything else they want.

-Pete


----------



## tirediron (Sep 17, 2009)

I charge a straight per-hour rate.


----------



## c.cloudwalker (Sep 17, 2009)

When I was shooting weddings, I never did packages but, as you say yourself, you have to take into consideration your area, etc.

The only fees listed on my contract was the shooting fee (at the end, $1000 for a day, and the extra time at $125/hr)  Although a lot of photogs consider (or did anyway) a photo day to be 7 hrs, for weddings I made it 8 hrs so as to not have to deal with explaining. I charged the same hourly fee for travel time with one hour free. If I had to spend the night in a hotel, which happened a few time, they picked up the tab.

This was quite a while back so those fees are only an example for you. Also, in a previous post on this subject, I mentioned that I charged this way because it seemed cheaper as the amount of money they had to come up with by the day of the wedding was lower. But I want to add that my clients always saw samples of finished albums and had a pretty good idea of what they would spend later. One more thing to consider about my fees is that I always worked alone.

Clients may have changed but I never did more pre-wedding photos than the putting on of the dress, rings and bouquet shots and no one ever asked me to do more. But if they want to pay you for watching them put on the make-up and nail polish, why not?

athomas made me laugh with his "shoot and burn." I used to call photographers who did more than 1 wedding in a day, "shoot and run" photogs. lol.


----------



## Peanuts (Sep 17, 2009)

Yes.. I threw the unlimited package away after having an 18 hour wedding. That was bad news bears. So my preset packages start at 8 hours (that is my minimum time) and goes to 12 hours in the giant cheeseburger package that has everything and its mom.

Generally people will choose one of the middle packages (with 10 hours) and tweak it a bit, whether it be taking an hour off or on. Hope that helps


----------



## CSR Studio (Sep 17, 2009)

I have never been at a wedding longer than 8 hours ever. I have however had a bridesmaids tea the morning of the wedding but not the wedding itself. I don't charge an hourly rate but I get paid very very well. Where are ya'll coming up with these marathon weddings?  I hope you are getting paid for it.


----------



## astrostu (Sep 18, 2009)

Talking about hours of a wedding ... I'll get back to you Sunday morning.  I start at noon on Saturday and have no idea when it's ending other than the reception starts at 7.  But it's for free for friends (my gift to the B&G) so an hourly rate isn't an issue there.


----------



## Peanuts (Sep 18, 2009)

Oh yes.. one more reason to not say unlimited. I know of a lady who offered this and ended up shooting a 3 day wedding (it was Indian I believe. One that spans several days).. don't be her!


----------



## astrostu (Sep 18, 2009)

Peanuts said:


> Oh yes.. one more reason to not say unlimited. I know of a lady who offered this and ended up shooting a 3 day wedding (it was Indian I believe. One that spans several days).. don't be her!



The one I'm shooting on Saturday is Indian.   But they've shortened the ceremony from 3 days to 1.5 hrs.  I'm grateful.  I'm also grateful that I get to stand up and walk around during the shindig as opposed to being stuck in an uncomfortable seat for over an hour.


----------



## RodeoFotocom (Sep 18, 2009)

For the weddings I have done, I really tailored it to what they needed.  Sometimes they really want the rehearsal photographed, sometimes its the 'getting ready'.  I really like the advice I got here - about leaving right when you are 'done'.

I load the photos right on a external storage device right at the reception.  I have totally changed the way I view my photos this past season.


----------



## Big Mike (Sep 18, 2009)

I personally like the longer (but not too long) weddings.  It gives you the opportunity to capture the whole day's events and create a story tale for them.  Right from the getting ready shots, up until the '_old folks have gone home, lets party_' stage.  

Of course, there are certain events that you want/need to capture.  I've found that many times, it might not be until 8, 9, 10 o'clock until the bouquet gets tossed, or the cake gets cut.  So we will certainly stick around until then...many times, having to remind them that they should get to those things before it's too late.  

Some of my favorite weddings are the ones where the B&G really let loose and have fun on the dance floor.  I could shoot that all night.  

You also need to recognize the point when things have reached their peak and there is nothing new to capture...except people getting drunker as the night drags on.  Unfortunately, sometimes that peak comes well before the time you are contracted to stay there.  In a situation like this, I just try to get creative.  A few times, the other photographer and I will have a contest to see who can come up with the best shot using the prop/decorations that are part of the wedding decor.


----------



## RodeoFotocom (Sep 18, 2009)

Big Mike said:


> A few times, the other photographer and I will have a contest to see who can come up with the best shot using the prop/decorations that are part of the wedding decor.


 
:lmao::greenpbl::mrgreen:


----------



## athomasimage (Sep 18, 2009)

Lyncca said:


> athomasimage said:
> 
> 
> > The 1st question out of a Bride is "How much do you charge?". I generally respond with "I don't know - but if we talk about your wedding and what you need, I can put a package together for you". To me there are several factors that effect the cost. Length of day, size of wedding party, flower girl, ring bearer, length of wedding dress. All this has an impact on the length of the day, is an assistant needed? and this all adds up to a final amount.
> ...


 
Interesting.  Here in N-E Ohio (the Rust Belt), brides are getting not tighter with their budgets, but chopping them.  All they're asking for is Shoot & Burn.  I've lost a fair amount of opportunities by not doing that.  I've very close to crossing over to the dark side and start to "Shoot & Burn".  Might be the only way to survive.


----------



## Nicholas James Photo (Sep 19, 2009)

A wedding is not 8 hours, 12 hours or even 16 hours - it's about a week.
First meeting
Pre wedding shoot
The wedding day
post processing
first showing to pick pics for album
talking to album company and designing the album
delivery of the album
preparing web gallery
pre checks on equipment

The list goes on and on

Work out your target earnings per year - add all expences and costs (travel, album, photo lab etc etc) - divide by number of expected weddings (I've always found that 48 is workable for me if a few of them are mid week) - and you should have a rough idea of what to charge.

It's a frightening exercise but if you go into business, you go into it for profit not loss.

Secondly, if you take a booking where the bride says I only want half a day for just the ceremony, you have now lost the potential for a full day as your diary is full. It's a price or nothing, do not be affraid of walking away from a potential loss


----------



## astrostu (Sep 20, 2009)

Alrighty -- the wedding I did yesterday was about 14 hours of shooting from start to finish.  Never again.


----------



## robdavis305 (Sep 21, 2009)

I feel very lucky compared to you guys. Ive never had to be there more than 6 hrs.


----------



## Flash Harry (Sep 21, 2009)

Once they cut the cake over here that's it, I offer 3 packs, one takes in getting ready, I'll turn up 2 hours before the wedding ceremony time and shoot half an hour or so then head to the church/venue, for no more than 1 1/2 hours, then finish off at reception, usually no more than an hour, I'm not there to sleep with the couple, get what you need and get out, I max 300 shots with very few for the bin. 

300 is more than enough, I've visited many "Pro's" sites on here and am amazed at what counts for professional work at a wedding on that side of the pond, countless shots of empty seats, backs of heads of groom and bride and raccoon eyes abound, it wouldn't cut it here and couples have usually had enough of being shot after a couple of hours anyway, drop your times at venues, the fee you charge is to cover PP and album prep, its not based on shoot time. H


----------



## goodkarma (Sep 23, 2009)

Wow! I feel so lucky! My base package starts at 1.5 hours and I have never done a wedding for more than 5 hours. 

Over here (maui) most weddings are small since not a lot of people can afford to attend a wedding in Hawaii.  The biggest wedding I have shot was about 50 guests.  Usually 30 min of getting ready, 30 min ceremony on the beach, 45 min of family formals and an hour on the beach with the bride and groom until sunset.  Receptions are usually a large table at a restaurant with a cake and most couples don't want to pay for coverage for that.  If anything it is 15 min at the restaurant with them cutting the cake and a group shot of people sitting at the table having cocktails!

I would lose my mind if I had to do a wedding for 14 hours!! I let the bride and groom know our timeline before their day and if they want to add more time, it is extra.


----------



## Lyncca (Sep 24, 2009)

astrostu said:


> Alrighty -- the wedding I did yesterday was about 14 hours of shooting from start to finish. Never again.


 
Killer isn't it??  Every one I have attended as second shooter has been minimal 12 hours, not counting driving 1-2.5 hrs each direction.  



goodkarma said:


> Wow! I feel so lucky! My base package starts at 1.5 hours and I have never done a wedding for more than 5 hours.
> 
> Over here (maui) most weddings are small since not a lot of people can afford to attend a wedding in Hawaii. The biggest wedding I have shot was about 50 guests. Usually 30 min of getting ready, 30 min ceremony on the beach, 45 min of family formals and an hour on the beach with the bride and groom until sunset. Receptions are usually a large table at a restaurant with a cake and most couples don't want to pay for coverage for that. If anything it is 15 min at the restaurant with them cutting the cake and a group shot of people sitting at the table having cocktails!
> 
> I would lose my mind if I had to do a wedding for 14 hours!! I let the bride and groom know our timeline before their day and if they want to add more time, it is extra.


 
It isn't my mind that is losing it after that long, its my body! Carrying all that gear and standing on my head all night and doing lunges to get the right angle does me in.



Flash Harry said:


> Once they cut the cake over here that's it, I offer 3 packs, one takes in getting ready, I'll turn up 2 hours before the wedding ceremony time and shoot half an hour or so then head to the church/venue, for no more than 1 1/2 hours, then finish off at reception, usually no more than an hour, I'm not there to sleep with the couple, get what you need and get out, I max 300 shots with very few for the bin.
> 
> 300 is more than enough, I've visited many "Pro's" sites on here and am amazed at what counts for professional work at a wedding on that side of the pond, countless shots of empty seats, backs of heads of groom and bride and raccoon eyes abound, it wouldn't cut it here and couples have usually had enough of being shot after a couple of hours anyway, drop your times at venues, the fee you charge is to cover PP and album prep, its not based on shoot time. H


 
I do like to get the end of the night so that you can tell the whole story in their album, I just think it is rediculous to spend as much time as we do standing around for hours for them to get ready.  If they don't plan to leave until midnight though, I'm really not up for that unless they are footing the bill. 

Ok, so I think this thread verified that I need to set my hours and charge for additional (assuming I ever book any!)  

Thanks for the advice, yall are awesome as always!


----------

