# If you had $10,000 to spend on essential items for a start up project...



## dearlybeloved (Apr 7, 2013)

What are some of the important things you would need?

I have $10,000 to start my own business and want to make sure I'm investing in the right things. I gravitate towards landscape and portraits so I need to figure out how to spend the money responsibly and on things I will *Need*. I'm just starting out so an $1600 Nikon 85mm 1.4 is out of my budget. I already own a Nikon D800e, Nikon sb700, a quality tripod a few budget lenses and will be receiving a Nikon 16-35mm f/4, a Nikon 24-70mm f/2.8, Nikon 70-200 f/2.8 and a Nikon 85mm f1.4 shortly.

So other than the camera and those lenses, what are some things I should look into? trigger, studio lights (portable lights?), filters, other lenses, etc.

Also, if you have any advice or non equipment related things I should understand then I'd be happy to hear them. 

Thanks


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## SCraig (Apr 7, 2013)

Not trying to be a smartass but do you have the knowledge and abilities to compete in that market?  Landscapes are not something I see a huge market for and, while I admittedly don't know much about Auburn, the portrait market around here is absolutely bloated with people who have no clue what they are doing.

If your answer to that is "No" then perhaps spending a bit of it on education to improve that knowledge would help.


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## dbvirago (Apr 7, 2013)

Business plan?


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## Designer (Apr 7, 2013)

Studio stobes, light stands, light modifiers, backdrops, (do you already have a laptop?) website, local advertising, (do you already have studio space?) If not, then at least 6 months rent, or preferably one year's rent set aside.


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## EIngerson (Apr 7, 2013)

dbvirago said:


> Business plan?



^^^^^


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## 412 Burgh (Apr 7, 2013)

a need for your services.


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## dearlybeloved (Apr 7, 2013)

SCraig said:


> Not trying to be a smartass but do you have the knowledge and abilities to compete in that market?  Landscapes are not something I see a huge market for and, while I admittedly don't know much about Auburn, the portrait market around here is absolutely bloated with people who have no clue what they are doing.
> 
> If your answer to that is "No" then perhaps spending a bit of it on education to improve that knowledge would help.



I've got a a lot of knowledge and a lot of determination to continue growing but I wouldnt call myself a professional photographer. This all comes in time and now is my chance to start so I'm taking it.


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## dearlybeloved (Apr 7, 2013)

dbvirago said:


> Business plan?




I've been spending a lot of time on my business plan and trying to understand the different markets that remain untapped in my area. I'm going to do a lot of commercial and portraits for most of the income and use my free time to take landscapes and my own stuff for prints.



Designer said:


> Studio stobes, light stands, light modifiers, backdrops, (do you already have a laptop?) website, local advertising, (do you already have studio space?) If not, then at least 6 months rent, or preferably one year's rent set aside.




I have a laptop and a powerhouse desktop that can handle anything i throw at it. I dont have to much of a studio space because I'm using an extra bedroom for that. I will need backdrops and such too.


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## pgriz (Apr 7, 2013)

A cornerstone of a good business plan is a detailed analysis of the market.  What is the nature of the commercial market in your area?  Who are the buyers?  Who are the competitors?  At your present skill level and equipment, what segment could you be competing in?  What is the "going rate" for that segment?  How many sales do you need to make at that price level to break even?  What conversion rate (prospects to customers) are you assuming?  Given the assumed conversion rate, how many pospects do you need to see to break even?  What is your marketing/sales plan to ensure that you see at least that number of prospects?

Etc.

As for "untapped" markets - there are different ways to looking at this.  The most optimistic way is to see the "untapped" market as virgin territory - no-one tried to do it in your area.  The most pessimistic is that it is "untapped" because there is no money to be made in this segment, and it is a fool's errand to try to do so.  If previous attempts failed, it may be very instructive to understand why.


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## Ballistics (Apr 7, 2013)

Honestly, I gotta disagree with almost your entire post pgriz. In order to have a successful business plan, you don't need to know most of those things.
And a lot of those things are impossible to quantify. The only thing that I actually agree on is that you need to know how much you need to make in order to break even. 

That may be the way to do things as a large corporation with money to spend on research and development, but as a small time photographer? Not so much.

The rest of that stuff comes from a lot of time. Like, years.

I don't know why when people mention things like starting their own business, members flock to try and scare the OP out of it. 

OP - You're going to definitely need ND filters for landscapes. Both graduated and solid. Probably around $800 worth to be safe.


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## MK3Brent (Apr 7, 2013)

I'd get a D3x ($4k), 14-24 ($1,600), 24-70 ($1,400), 70-200 ($2,000), then $1,000 on lights. Speedlights and wireless triggers.


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## Ballistics (Apr 7, 2013)

MK3Brent said:


> I'd get a D3x ($4k), 14-24 ($1,600), 24-70 ($1,400), 70-200 ($2,000), then $1,000 on lights. Speedlights and wireless triggers.



He mentions this. 



> I already own a Nikon D800e, Nikon sb700, a quality tripod a few budget lenses and will be receiving a Nikon 16-35mm f/4, a Nikon 24-70mm f/2.8, Nikon 70-200 f/2.8 and a Nikon 85mm f1.4 shortly.


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## MK3Brent (Apr 7, 2013)

Ballistics said:


> MK3Brent said:
> 
> 
> > I'd get a D3x ($4k), 14-24 ($1,600), 24-70 ($1,400), 70-200 ($2,000), then $1,000 on lights. Speedlights and wireless triggers.
> ...


Yeah, but he asked what I'd buy.
And that's what I'd buy.


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## KmH (Apr 7, 2013)

Yes, you will need lighting, grip, triggers, light stands, a selection of light modifiers, and other hardware.
Since you will be doing both retail and commercial work you will need both studio lighting and portable lighting.

Do you have studio space available?

 The retail part - portraits- and the commercial part, have different business models.
Pricing is different.
Contracts are different.
Delivery requirements are different.
Commercial involves a lot more paper work.

Retail pricing is entirely based on personal use.
Commercial pricing is based on usage. Usage is usually billed separately from what is charged for the photographers time, talent, and reputation.
Usage is broken down by exclusive or non-exclusive use, geographical area of the usage, image size(s) used, number of impressions, media types used, usage length of time, etc.
Case Study: Producing A Successful Estimate | DigitalPhotoPro.com

Best Business Practices for Photographers, Second Edition
ASMP Professional Business Practices in Photography 

The Photographer's Guide to Negotiating


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## dearlybeloved (Apr 7, 2013)

Ballistics said:


> Honestly, I gotta disagree with almost your entire post pgriz. In order to have a successful business plan, you don't need to know most of those things.
> And a lot of those things are impossible to quantify. The only thing that I actually agree on is that you need to know how much you need to make in order to break even.
> 
> That may be the way to do things as a large corporation with money to spend on research and development, but as a small time photographer? Not so much.
> ...



I was looking at some ND filters and I honestly want to check out using square filters. I just dont have access to them where I live to check them out so I would be buying blindly. any thoughts on square filters? glass or high quality resin?


Also, this is me starting because I dont have many bills, I live rent free and have a good start to make an investment and make it grow. I dont know everything and I dont think I need to know everything right now because I'm still enjoying it and starting out. lol. I will be running this out of my house and will have access to a little more room than I anticipated. I dont know ANYTHING about studio lighting or what I'm going to need. I learn best by buying, playing and figuring it out on my own and since I have the time to do it I will start now.

thanks for the responses guys.


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## dearlybeloved (Apr 7, 2013)

KmH said:


> Yes, you will need lighting, grip, triggers, light stands, a selection of light modifiers, and other hardware.
> Since you will be doing both retail and commercial work you will need both studio lighting and portable lighting.
> 
> Do you have studio space available?
> ...




THANK YOU FOR THOSE LINKS! reading now and finding some things i need to know out. I was wondering about what kind of light modifiers would you think would be safe to start with. also, when i say commercial im talking about small local businesses that are around my area. we have A LOT of ma and pop stores and I have ways to market myself. Im mainly trying to learn about what kinds of equipment ill NEED so i can cover all of that and start learning how to use it.

oh, and is there good stationary and portable strobes that i could use that will be more than enough as well as not break the bank or is that too much to ask for in this type of product?


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## rexbobcat (Apr 7, 2013)

Well now in confused. If you aren't a professional but you are wanting advice on how to start a business, are you intent on becoming a...business amateur? The terms you use aren't always consistent.

I would first find out my expenses, and then try and approximate how much I will need to make a profit.  Then I would go and get a business license and a tax ID (here they are $300). 

Then I would buy lighting equipment since you have a lot of equipment already, and I would learn how to use it.

I would personally buy both speedlights and strobes. I know that speedlights are portable but I swear, just trying to adapt them to studio use is just as painful (to me) as lugging around studio equipment with portable power.


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## dearlybeloved (Apr 7, 2013)

I am not trying to revolve this thread around business advice really as much as the kind of gear I will need. I have plenty of time to learn to use it and learn more as time progresses but I want to invest into this now while i can. Im also not trying to be a corporate chain or anything. just me with my equipment and taking on more as I gain experience and knowledge.


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## KmH (Apr 7, 2013)

You could put the money in a credit union savings account and earn interest on it.

Why would you want a strobe to be stationary?
Studio strobes basically have power cords and need to be near electrical wall outlets. Many entry-level monolight systems can be powered with battery packs on location.
Flashpoint 320M Portrait Wedding Monolight Kit, with Two 320 Monolights,9.5' Stands,Umbrellas, Snoot and Carrying Case
Flashpoint II D/C Battery Power Pack with Replaceable Nickel-Hydrogen Batteries, for use with the M Series Monolights

Paul C. Buff makes their Paul C. Buff - Vagabond Portable Power






There are many different styles of lighting. Different body types, and various facial mask issue require lights be moved form shoot to shoot.

To get started, the business part is much more important than the photography part.


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## Sw1tchFX (Apr 8, 2013)

*F*ck the gear. *
You've got a camera, lens and reflector. You're good enough.


Spend the 10k on a graphic designer, web developer, CPA, and a producer to handle your brand design, portfolio and product delivery, cashflow/taxes, and your shoot production for you.

Than hire _real_ models from agencies so you can shoot whatever sh*t you want, and it will look _good_. Than use it to market to whatever client you want. If you don't know how to do that, you hire an agent to do it for you for a 35% cut. 

If you've got 10k burning a hole in your pocket and dont' know what to do with it, and want to jumpstart a photography career, do that.


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## Robin_Usagani (Apr 8, 2013)

if I had $10,000 to spend, I already know what I want to buy.  I dont need forum posters advice lol.  Everyone is different.  Buy what you want!  If you do not know what you want, then you dont really need it.


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## KmH (Apr 8, 2013)

Robin_Usagani said:


> If you do not know what you want, then you dont really need it.


Stated another way - If you don't know what you *need*, then you don't *need* anything - until you do know what you need.


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## Designer (Apr 8, 2013)

dearlybeloved said:


> I have a laptop and a powerhouse desktop that can handle anything i throw at it. I dont have to much of a studio space because I'm using an extra bedroom for that. I will need backdrops and such too.



I think a spare bedroom is going to be too small, but here is what I would do:

Get between one and three studio strobes, and get ones that will work with household electricity AND battery power.  Get at least one battery pack.
Get a variety of light modifiers; softboxes, umbrellas, gel and flag holders, several good light stands, and wireless triggers.  
Tether your laptop to the camera in the studio, but do editing on the desktop.


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## dearlybeloved (Apr 8, 2013)

I will be working my regular job along side getting this started so its more of a lone wolf kind of gig. business cards, portfolios,website and other marketing tools are coming out of my own pocket and im using the chunk for equipment. I mean, I dont have to spend it all as long as I get what I need.

So far im looking at 

Flash bracket
monolights
battery pack
triggers
2 nikon sb 700
filters
umbrellas
soft box


i was also pointed in the direction of getting barn doors and honeycomb for the lights.


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## dearlybeloved (Apr 8, 2013)

Designer said:


> dearlybeloved said:
> 
> 
> > I have a laptop and a powerhouse desktop that can handle anything i throw at it. I dont have to much of a studio space because I'm using an extra bedroom for that. I will need backdrops and such too.
> ...




That sounds easy enough. I want to add some filters for my person landscape enjoyment but that sounds good.


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## tirediron (Apr 8, 2013)

Let's see...

Insurance:  ~$1000.00

Business License:  ~$100 - 200

Legal consulation for contracts, etc:  $750 - 1000

CPA consultation for taxation, business records, etc:  $500

Website design & hosting (1 year):  $1500

Increase on vehicle insurance:  $500 (? - no real idea on this, but I'm guessing substantial)

So, right there, you're probably already well over $4K and you haven't even bought anything.  I think the old business plan needs a little more tweaking...


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## pgriz (Apr 8, 2013)

Ballistics said:


> Honestly, I gotta disagree with almost your entire post pgriz. In order to have a successful business plan, you don't need to know most of those things.
> And a lot of those things are impossible to quantify. The only thing that I actually agree on is that you need to know how much you need to make in order to break even.
> 
> That may be the way to do things as a large corporation with money to spend on research and development, but as a small time photographer? Not so much.
> ...



Well, you have your perspective, and I have mine.  I have worked as a business consultant for a number of startup companies, and have been involved with a few myself as a partner or shareowner.  Knowing the market (or at least putting down the assumptions to be verified through actual experience) is rather basic to any business plan, and if the prospective business owner cannot quantify those numbers, then they are setting themselves up for a lot of hard slogging, and the mis-investment of scarce funds.  In any business, there are ups and downs, and deciding whether to push on or cut the losses depends on WHY something is not working, when the inevitable hard times happen.  Being blind-sided by things you didn't think about (but should have) is a very tough way to learn to manage the business.

The alternative to doing the research, is to work for someone else in the field, and pick up a lot of the knowledge without putting one's own money at risk.  Which is why it is pretty common to recommend that if someone wants to start a business, they should either work for, or partner with someone who already is successful at it.  But if you're going in without that knowledge, you've got the odds heavily stacked against you.  Doing the research at least lets you know approximately what the odds are.


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## amolitor (Apr 8, 2013)

I would blow it all on models.


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## Superfitz (Apr 8, 2013)

Take a look at the set in this link. It would take care of modifiers, monolights, triggers, stands, etc.... I would add a vagabond mini (or two) and another foldable strip box. They have other kits as well depending on your space. That would still leave you plenty left over for the other equipment you want.

http://www.paulcbuff.com/pkg-portraitstudio.php


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## ghache (Apr 8, 2013)

Seems like you have all the gear camera and lens you need. id make sure to add a couple fast prime for portraits. 50 and 85 1.8 G works flawlesly on you d800e.

i would blow the rest on a 5 light setup.

2 X 800ws flash heads
2 X 500/600 ws
1 X 1200ws head.
these usally can be found in kits that comes with bags, standard reflectors, umbrelllas and stands


2 strip box
1 large softbox
1 beauty dish
2 barndoors set.
oversized reflectors with grids
1 nice boom
1 background stand and some rolls.
fog machine


minimum 3 vagabon mini

a good set of tranceivers/transmitters
pelican cases

some weigths, upgraded stands.

you should be able to do all that with 10k and with plenty of money left for strippers and models to build youself a porfolio that stands out.

before you spend any money on models, make sure you learn out to shoot them properly because you will waste your money.


Look at bowens lights.

for anything business related, contracts, insurance, taxes and all the other crap some people on here is winning about, you seems ready to figure that out. 

since yoju asked for advices on tools. thats what you need


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## dearlybeloved (Apr 8, 2013)

ghache said:


> Seems like you have all the gear camera and lens you need. id make sure to add a couple fast prime for portraits. 50 and 85 1.8 G works flawlesly on you d800e.
> 
> i would blow the rest on a 5 light setup.
> 
> ...




Thats awesome! thank you for that shopping list. I guess the hardest part now is finding whats going to be compatible with what so i dont get a bunch of the wrong stuff. Im still learning about studio lighting and have none to work with so its hard for me to know what im supposed to buy and whats going to be quality and not something Im going to need to replace in the near future.


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## Derrel (Apr 8, 2013)

dearlybeloved said:


> What are some of the important things you would need?
> 
> I have $10,000 to start my own business//landscape and portraits //just starting out so an//already own a Nikon D800e, Nikon sb700, a quality tripod a few budget lenses and will be receiving a Nikon 16-35mm f/4, a Nikon 24-70mm f/2.8, Nikon 70-200 f/2.8 and a Nikon 85mm f1.4 shortly.
> 
> So other than the camera and those lenses, what are some things I should look into? trigger, studio lights (portable lights?), filters, other lenses, etc.



The business and marketing side of things is what determines if you will fail or succeed. I have not read any of the other posts in this thread, just responding to your PM. 

I would not waste money on an 85/1.4. Just get the new 85/1.8 AF-S G. GREAT lens, good to own for its critical sharpness and light weight and HUGE price/performance. One of the finest 85's on the market; I have no idea why Nikon's 1.4 model even exists. SAVE the MONEY the 1.4 costs--do NOT spend the money on an 85mm 1.4!!!!!

Landscapes: primes are sharper than zooms. Significantly so on the D800e. Go to DxOMark.com and read their D800 lens suitability report. The 16-35 VR is very sharp for a zoom. The 24-70 and 70-200 are good zooms, and will be fine for a lot of uses. You have a good lens kit with those three top-class zooms and an 85/1.8 G.

Computer capability is a necessity. Lightroom 4 for sure, and some good actions for portraiture and wedding workflow. Remote release for shooting without your hand on the shutter button.

Lighting:The following is *my opinion* after 27 years of Speedotron ownership. I looked at the Paul C. Buff kit. Wow...a great kit for Paul C. Buff's bottom line. Almost $3,000 and not much that's very sophisticated for CONTROL of the light. Needs more light SHAPING TOOLS. I would not spend money on Einsteins--they are wayyyover-priced and over-engineered for portraiture. Lots of high-tech specifications and uselessly technical bullspit specs that look good on paper and mean literally chit in-studio for portraiture. Over-priced, and not what a portrait or landscape shooter who is starting out,and is on a budget,really needs. 1/10th f/stop repeatability, ultra-short durations? Yadda-yadda.

4 monolights  x 640 Watt-secons...just... wow, what a bad,bad allocation of power. Buy a pack-and head system with one big pack, and one small pack, and at LEAST five decent flash heads to start. Buy it used. Buy Speedotron for value and dependability and modifiers that WORK, and  heads that will not break when they get dinged, banged, dropped, or worked hard. Speedotron's mylar snap-on diffusers for their 7 inch and 11.5 inch and 16-inch reflectors are a lighting necessity. One, or two diffusers per reflector can make a world of difference. You will sooner rather than later need at LEAST five flash heads. You need two 11.5 inch reflectors, and four mylar diffusers,and a 20 and a 35 degree honeycomb for the 11.5 set. You need three 7-inch reflectors, with a full honeycomb grid set, and six mylar diffusers. You need four sets of barn doors, two for 11.5 in ch, two for 7 inch, and one set for a 16- or 20-inch parabolic reflector or beauty dish.

Two, 46-inch Photek Softlighter II umbrella boxes. Or three of them. A Photoflex 36x48 softbox. A long strip-box with grid, from e-Bay. Two of them, ideally. A pair of Photoflex convertible umbrellas. A Manfrotto or other heavy-duty boom stand with 15 lb counterweight. Seamless paper rolls, white, gray, black.Crossbar and stand set-up, preferrably *Bogen Autopoles* and crossbars with Expan Chain Drive system.  Gaffer's tape, plenty of it. Some Bogen creative gels for the lights. Bunch of reflectors, at least one or better yet FOUR, the size of doors, and some way to join them (clips, wire, cordage) to make V-flats. ONE SIDE WHITE, ONE SIDE BLACK. Fabric is handiest, but foam-board will work for non-location non-transportable ones.

You will seldom need more than 200 Watt-seconds from a Speedotron flash head whenh its part of a 4- or 5- light setup; their power is not doubly-inflated in the Buff-style...400 W-s from a Speedo 11.5 inch reflector will overpower August sunlight from 13 feet away at a very small f/stop (f/13) at 1/250 at base ISO...so in Buff-speak that'd probably be called a "1000"...lol...and not in a funny lol way,either...

Don't spend a lot of money on expensive PER HEAD flash monolights like Einsteins when starting out....spend it on *light shapers* and reflectors and diffusers and modifiers! I would rather have EIGHT crappy old Speedotron Brown Line heads and two, 400 Watt-second, 4-outlet Brownline D402 packs than four "640" Eisteins...I would have twice as many light heads, and many more options for modifiers and speed rings AND I would never worry it'd break if it dropped 3 feet onto carpet or just crap out in-transit. AND, I would save a ton of money too. Spend money on usefulness and real-word, old-school light modifying and shaping and not on sexy high-tech specs and minute, incremental 'control'; that is the B.S. that Buff's marketing lures newbies and geeks in with...spec-talk...tech-talk, the idea of incremental "control". You want 1/10th f/stop control over output??? Move the light stand 1 or 2 inches. And no, I am NOT kidding you.


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## dearlybeloved (Apr 9, 2013)

Awesome! im going to start breaking down everything youve said and research it all. should i be looking into more constant light or strobes?combination?


EDIT: As I start to look at some of the comparisons on the DxOMark.com site, I feel like I could be better off with different lenses and save money by not buying all Nikon lenses. For example, the Nikon 16-35 f/4 vs the Tokina 17-28 f/2.8. The Nikon scores one point lower (by DxOMark.com's standards) than the Tokina which sits at almost half the cost at $749.00 compared to the latter which is $1256.95. I'm also looking for a good comparison of the nikon 70-200 f/4 vs the 70-200 f/2.8 vr2. If i can save some money in that area then I would be more than willing unless there is a huge difference.

Edit: Just realized it wont take filters... thats a huge no for me.


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## gsgary (Apr 9, 2013)

50mmF0.95 Noctilux


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## Derrel (Apr 9, 2013)

Speedotron Products Accessories


Speedotron Products Accessories


Speedotron Products Accessories


Speedotron Product Details


Speedotron Product Details


Speedotron Product Details

Here you go Dave.


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## dearlybeloved (Apr 9, 2013)

Derrel said:


> Speedotron Products Accessories
> 
> 
> Speedotron Products Accessories
> ...




wow, thanks! dont have to go too far now.


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## dearlybeloved (Apr 9, 2013)

after looking and seeing whats in my range and what i feel i may like I think im going to go with the paul c buff busy bee package and add 2 extra lights to make it a 5 light set up. Im looking to see if ill need anything else to make those 2 extra lights work with the rest of the package and what wattage of lights.

Also, since im a student ill get 10% off which is another really nice thing.

Paul C. Buff - The Busy Bee Package


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## Derrel (Apr 9, 2013)

Yes, stepping away from the high-tech Einstein lights saves you a TON of money. On the case of the 16-35mm f/4 VR-NIKKOR...the NEW 18-35mm model released last month is almost as sharp, and is also in the price range of the Tamron, but, since it is a NIKKOR, it will hold its value much better. It is so newly-released that it has not been reviewed by DxO Mark that I am aware of. Ken Rockwell has a brief article on the new 18-35 zoom. The 70-200 f/4 versus the 70-200/2.8 VR-II...tough call...smaller,lighter, MUCH less-expensive versus...the best Nikon makes.


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## dearlybeloved (Apr 9, 2013)

Yea, I was looking at them a little closer and felt i could come out better with 5 lights, and extras for a better price. I also think im going to stick with the 16-35 for optical and build quality. Id rather just spend it while I can instead of wishing i got it to begin with. I checked out the kenrockwell review and even though I dont really feel I want the 14-24 as its obviously superior, but it doesnt hold filters which is a no go for me right now. would i be wrong to say that my main goal is to achieve quality photographs for clients and that spending the extra on the 16-35 that the lower distortion and sharpness will pay off in the end result? I was also looking at the 70-200 f4 and f2.8 too and think Ill be happier with the 2.8 in the long run. I like to travel a lot and the quality of the 2.8 will definitely last and give me the versatility in lower light.... which I ALWAYS seem to find myself in.


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## Mully (Apr 9, 2013)

Buy a Harley get a chick to ride with you and keep photography fun.


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## Derrel (Apr 9, 2013)

VERY few people can tell the difference between the images from a 14-24, 17-35,18-35,or 16-35, especially people who are buying photos. Personally, I think the 14-24 is a bad,bad choice for people or events...it's wayyyyy too wide on the lower end, and the top end is also too wide....16 to 35mm is a much better usable range for people on FX. Lens sharpness is overrated I think. Your equipment is not what will make you succeed, or fail. How well you USE what you have, and your business and marketing skills count for much more than what kind of lenses or lights you happen to own. Almost any half-decent modern gear is plenty good if shot with decent lighting.

You are in for a real workout, Dave.


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## dearlybeloved (Apr 9, 2013)

Derrel said:


> VERY few people can tell the difference between the images from a 14-24, 17-35,18-35,or 16-35, especially people who are buying photos. Personally, I think the 14-24 is a bad,bad choice for people or events...it's wayyyyy too wide on the lower end, and the top end is also too wide....16 to 35mm is a much better usable range for people on FX. Lens sharpness is overrated I think. Your equipment is not what will make you succeed, or fail. How well you USE what you have, and your business and marketing skills count for much more than what kind of lenses or lights you happen to own. Almost any half-decent modern gear is plenty good if shot with decent lighting.
> 
> You are in for a real workout, Dave.




I plan on it being a work out. once i get the lighting equipment I have to learn how you use it properly. I want to use the versatility of the 16-35 for landscapes and my own person creative stuff I like to get into. I was also going to show you my cart from paulcbuff to see if theres anything I'm missing. I got the busy bee setup and added a 1600 and another 400. I also added stands for each plus a small backlight stand (just in case), 20 gels, gel holder and I think thats it.


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## Benco (Apr 9, 2013)

I know you're looking at purchasing stuff rather than services but even so I'd put aside some dosh for some sort of business launch, an exhibition for instance. Contract a PR pro to set it all up for you, they'll have loads of useful advice and they'll do a fantastic job; get you a venue, get you into local news, get the right people to your show and so on, it's a great way to throw your hat in the ring. 

...and because they do all the difficult, boring work it's really fun for you.


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## dearlybeloved (Apr 9, 2013)

Benco said:


> I know you're looking at purchasing stuff rather than services but even so I'd put aside some dosh for some sort of business launch, an exhibition for instance. Contract a PR pro to set it all up for you, they'll have loads of useful advice and they'll do a fantastic job; get you a venue, get you into local news, get the right people to your show and so on, it's a great way to throw your hat in the ring.
> 
> ...and because they do all the difficult, boring work it's really fun for you.



That sounds like an awesome idea. I have access to venues and **** too. so i can pool together some resources and make that happen.


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## rexbobcat (Apr 9, 2013)

And business cards. I can't count how many times I've been leisurely shooting some event for free and then someone comes up and asks me for contact info and I don't have anything to give them.

For a basic front-back card, a lot of places will print 500-1000 for like $40


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## orljustin (Apr 11, 2013)

" I dont know ANYTHING about studio lighting or what I'm going to need. "

I can see why you'd want to start some sort of photo business, yeah.


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## dearlybeloved (Apr 11, 2013)

orljustin said:


> " I dont know ANYTHING about studio lighting or what I'm going to need. "
> 
> I can see why you'd want to start some sort of photo business, yeah.




so because I dont know how to use studio lighting that makes me incapable of learning and running a business? I didn't realize that I have to know EVERYTHING about EVERYTHING before doing something I want to do with my life.


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## Superfitz (Apr 12, 2013)

Derrel said:
			
		

> ...not much that's very sophisticated for CONTROL of the light. Needs more light SHAPING TOOLS....



While I do not share in derrel's opinions to often (especially in this case about einsteins and that company in general), I do agree 100% with his opinion of buying light shaping tools. That is one of the things I wish someone would of told me when starting out. I had all kinds of lighting. problem was that i couldn't do much with it, because I had no real modifiers except a couple of softboxes.


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## jake337 (Apr 12, 2013)

Maybe put aside a small chunk of that for a nice view camera, one wide lens and some good film.  

Strictly for landscapes of course. 

But you do have the D800e though, so maybe not.

Maybe add a tilt/shift lens to your lineup.  

Blow the rest on lighting and some dank!


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## Derrel (Apr 12, 2013)

Superfitz said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ummm....well...thanks?? No, but really, I understand. Einsteins are built to sell on specifications, mostly to first-time buyers, or moving-on-up buyers who were unhappy with technical limitations and features/problems with lower-cost Buff gear. For a first time buyer with no practical knowledge of lighting equipment and how it "really" works, the high-tech capabilities of the Einsteins for the stated purpose of "portraiture"...well, I find the whole Einstein appeal to be *overkill. *And also, too much light, per flash unit...just "overkill", in features, power, price, and technical specification...just...way...more...of everything that is expensive, and not really helpful to the beginning portrait guy. Paul C. Buff has made a business out of marketing his lighting gear with good advertising copy, and compelling statistics, and has successfully unsed the same approach for decades now. 

As to the light shaping tools: the Paul C. Buff kits, and Dave's final order, are lacking. I think a person needs a LOT MORE than the Buff "kits" offer. Things like mylar diffusers, barn doors, gel holders, grids....all very,very skimpy in the Buff kits....lots of emphasis on their gigantic PLM umbrella, and some softboxes...not nearly enough emphasis on accessories to refine one's lighting setups. Again...if one does not have an 11-inch parabolic reflector, grid, and two diffusers + a barn doors set for that light, one is missing a HUGELY useful class of light shaping devices. Buff seems to cater to the people who want to set up two or three softboxes, and call it good. I think Buff is doing a HUGE disservice by selling what the *ModelMayhem set* thinks they need, based on YouTube videos. The "real" light shaping tools are not even part of their kits. Again: diffusers, gel holders; barn doors; grids, parabolic reflectors; reflector panels, scrims, all that stuff...where is it?????


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## Superfitz (Apr 12, 2013)

Derrel said:
			
		

> Ummm....well...thanks?? No, but really, I understand. Einsteins are built to sell on specifications, mostly to first-time buyers, or moving-on-up buyers who were unhappy with technical limitations and features/problems with lower-cost Buff gear. For a first time buyer with no practical knowledge of lighting equipment and how it "really" works, the high-tech capabilities of the Einsteins for the stated purpose of "portraiture"...well, I find the whole Einstein appeal to be overkill. And also, too much light, per flash unit...just "overkill", in features, power, price, and technical specification...just...way...more...of everything that is expensive, and not really helpful to the beginning portrait guy. Paul C. Buff has made a business out of marketing his lighting gear with good advertising copy, and compelling statistics, and has successfully unsed the same approach for decades now.
> 
> As to the light shaping tools: the Paul C. Buff kits, and Dave's final order, are lacking. I think a person needs a LOT MORE than the Buff "kits" offer. Things like mylar diffusers, barn doors, gel holders, grids....all very,very skimpy in the Buff kits....lots of emphasis on their gigantic PLM umbrella, and some softboxes...not nearly enough emphasis on accessories to refine one's lighting setups. Again...if one does not have an 11-inch parabolic reflector, grid, and two diffusers + a barn doors set for that light, one is missing a HUGELY useful class of light shaping devices. Buff seems to cater to the people who want to set up two or three softboxes, and call it good. I think Buff is doing a HUGE disservice by selling what the ModelMayhem set thinks they need, based on YouTube videos. The "real" light shaping tools are not even part of their kits. Again: diffusers, gel holders; barn doors; grids, parabolic reflectors; reflector panels, scrims, all that stuff...where is it?????



Funny...I meant I don't share in your opinions to often in that post.  I wasn't trying to passively aggressively say I think you are always full of bunk. Now that you explain it further I couldn't agree more.


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## imagemaker46 (Apr 12, 2013)

I've just read though this thread and am just a little confused. Do you have 10k to spend after the gear arrives that you listed, or is the cost of the gear coming out of the 10k? You want to set up a studio in a bedroom and start taking in clients, but you don't know anything about using studio lights? You want to shoot landscapes and portraits. You live rent free. You have done all your market studies and found that their are no other professionals working in your area that have established studios. You will take in clients to practice on until you have the experience to turn pro, or you will play pro until you have the experience?

What is your real background in photography? Not the paper real, but the practical experience real.

You might want do a local search on Google and look at what the 10 pages of Auburn photographers shoot.


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## tirediron (Apr 12, 2013)

dearlybeloved said:


> orljustin said:
> 
> 
> > " I dont know ANYTHING about studio lighting or what I'm going to need. "
> ...


You certainly don't, no.  I think the point that orljustin was trying to make was that you should however, have an understanding of the basics.  One of the most common mistakes I see is that of people who want to buy gear, but don't really know what gear they want or need.  They just want to buy something, and more often than not, it turns out to be the wrong thing.  My suggestion is that you spend some more time learning both the craft and the business side before you actually declare yourself a business.  Any "general practicioner" should have a basic understand of studio lighting and the type of equipment required, as well as most other aspects of photography.


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## manaheim (Apr 12, 2013)

tirediron said:


> You certainly don't, no.  I think the point that orljustin was trying to make was that you should however, have an understanding of the basics.  One of the most common mistakes I see is that of people who want to buy gear, but don't really know what gear they want or need.  They just want to buy something, and more often than not, it turns out to be the wrong thing.  My suggestion is that you spend some more time learning both the craft and the business side before you actually declare yourself a business.  Any "general practicioner" should have a basic understand of studio lighting and the type of equipment required, as well as most other aspects of photography.



Think about it this way... Would you open up shop as an auto mechanic without training? Just buy the tools and go to work?


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## Derrel (Apr 12, 2013)

No offense take superfizz! I 'thought' I knew whatcha' meant to say, but I did wish to explain myself a bit more. As far as portraiture, I've worked in multiple portrait studios and have shot freelance and hobby portraits of many different types since I bought my first set of studio lights back in the mid-1980's (I went Speedotron Brown Line then). I've used Speedotron Black Line and Brown Line, plus Norman, Dynalite, and Photogenic pack-and-head flash systems, as well as White Lightning, JTL, and Sunpak MS4000 monolights, and Metz, Nikon,Vivitar, and Crown speedlights, so I'm pretty familiar with different "styles" of flash gear that's been made over the last three decades. "MY" opinion is that the heavy emphasis on incremental output control via sliders, switches, and rheostats---is mostly an ADVERTISING method that sways many,many people. Einsteins have very advanced specs and capabilities, at a fair, but high-ish price for a PORTRAIT *beginner's* needs. The design emphasis of Einsteins is, IMHO, all wrong for a *PORTRAIT start-up*...it's money spent on the wrong capabilities, IMHO. MORE light units, of simpler, and lower, capability, and with more light-shaping tools, would be my suggestion. That's what I wanted to convey. Eisnsteins are overkill for Dave's situation, I think. He needs butter knives,and plenty of 'em, not oyster forks...

Somebody asked me if my studio strobes offered 1/10 stop output control. I said, "Hell yes! I move the lightstand forward or back two inches! THAT'S my 1/10 f/stop control right there!" (Now, in all fairness, my Speedo Black Line packs offer 1/3 stop, click-stop rheostats, but my Brown Line packs do NOT--they are very simple.)

Anyway...I sort-of know Dave from the TPF PM system, and have helped him out in the past.That's the only reason I spent so much time on his case here. As far as starting out "cold"...I dunno...I see a LOT of very average shooters doing photo businesses. It's sort of *the new thing*. In today's market, there are a LOT of new entrants. It has been this way for many years now. Some people make it, others fail. We all know that. Some people thrive under pressure, others cave. Just OWNING a studio lighting set-up is much,much more than most Facebook photographers own I think. UNDER-CAPITALIZATION is a bad thing, and many businesses fail because they are under-capitalized (and possibly also under-equipped). I dunno...if he weants to make a go of it, and actually buy some tools and start *earning-and-learning*,well more power to him. He might fail. He might succeed.


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## jamesbjenkins (Apr 12, 2013)

MK3Brent said:


> I'd get a D3x.



I'm sorry, but I stopped reading your post after this.

Did you even read his post? He already has a D800e.


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## jamesbjenkins (Apr 12, 2013)

orljustin said:


> " I dont know ANYTHING about studio lighting or what I'm going to need. "
> 
> I can see why you'd want to start some sort of photo business, yeah.



Holy unnecessary snark, Batman!


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## orljustin (Apr 12, 2013)

dearlybeloved said:


> orljustin said:
> 
> 
> > " I dont know ANYTHING about studio lighting or what I'm going to need. "
> ...



It probably makes you incapable of running a _photography_ business, or at least it's going to hamper you.

This thread reads like another "I got a camera, and I've got an extra $1k, so I'm a business, and what do I need to buy?".


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## tirediron (Apr 12, 2013)

orljustin said:


> ...It probably makes you incapable of running a _photography_ business, or at least it's going to hamper you.


Really?  You don't think that is just a little over-stated?


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## dearlybeloved (Apr 12, 2013)

I dont really have to divulge my personal story and what im trying to do but for the sake of clarification and staying on the right subject ill say this. I've got $25,000. I've got about 4 years in experience with photography and I have no ever owned studio lighting. I want to make a living doing what I love so I want to drop $10,000 on gear and learn how to use it and then in the meantime build a portfolio that will blow my competitors out of the water and hold an exhibit at a local venue of my work to throw my hat in the ring (like i was suggested before). 

I have thrown some of my stuff up on my tumblr blog of some past and recent stuff. its not much of what i've got but what im willing to share until i get everything together for my official website.


My Random Photos


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## imagemaker46 (Apr 12, 2013)

You're right, you don't have to divulge your personal story.  You come on a forum, asking for all kinds of help and then toss out a comment like that when people are offering you helpful suggestions.  If people can't establish an experience baseline, the information they offer could very well be pointless.  I looked at your images and you have some very nice ones,  wanting to "blow your competitors out of the water" as a goal is fine.  You want to shoot portraits, run the studio, and make a living as a photographer.  I would then suggest that you hold off opening anything until you had the acquired the skills to blow your competitors out of the water.  Learn how to use the lights, jumping too early into opening your professional portrait business won't do you any good if you're shooting portraits that aren't light years ahead of the established photographers in your area.


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## dearlybeloved (Apr 12, 2013)

I'm not going to immediately open up a business after I get gear guys.  I'm going to take the time to learn how to use it before I open a business.  I've got a good head on my shoulders and people in my side who are helping me with that aspect of it.  I just need to get the gear then work on a strong portfolio then things will fall into place.


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## tirediron (Apr 12, 2013)

dearlybeloved said:


> I'm not going to immediately open up a business after I get gear guys. I'm going to take the time to learn how to use it before I open a business. I've got a good head on my shoulders and people in my side who are helping me with that aspect of it. I just need to get the gear then work on a strong portfolio then things will fall into place.



This info would have helped in post #1!


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## dearlybeloved (Apr 12, 2013)

I asked specific questions that didn't pertain to that.  So why should I have posted that?


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## tirediron (Apr 12, 2013)

> I have $10,000 to start my own business and want to make sure I'm investing in the right things.... so I need to figure out how to spend the money responsibly and on things I will Need. I'm just starting out...Also, if you have any advice or non equipment related things I should understand then I'd be happy to hear them.


Because your specific questions included the above quoted extracts from your first post.  This gave me (and others here) the impression that you were someone who had some gear and decided to hang out their shingle, without giving thought to the things that are MOST important to a business, licences, insurance, etc, etc.  Had you explained things more fully, I daresay that the advice would have been much more relevant.  A number of the people who've posted here are very experienced professionals, and were doubtless trying to help you avoid the mistakes that have been seen all to often by those new to the business.


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## imagemaker46 (Apr 12, 2013)

dearlybeloved said:


> I'm not going to immediately open up a business after I get gear guys. I'm going to take the time to learn how to use it before I open a business. I've got a good head on my shoulders and people in my side who are helping me with that aspect of it. I just need to get the gear then work on a strong portfolio then things will fall into place.



Have you thought of timetable as to how long it will take you to learn enough for things to fall into place?  You seem to be strong on shooting  landscapes, and weaker with shooting people, especially portraits. Learning a good series of studio lighting techniques will take time.


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## dearlybeloved (Apr 12, 2013)

imagemaker46 said:


> dearlybeloved said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not going to immediately open up a business after I get gear guys. I'm going to take the time to learn how to use it before I open a business. I've got a good head on my shoulders and people in my side who are helping me with that aspect of it. I just need to get the gear then work on a strong portfolio then things will fall into place.
> ...



do you have any good portrait workshops that would help me out? I havent really thought of a good time table or anything along those lines. its more of when I feel like Im ready to take it on. I have a friend who owns a camera shop in my town and also does studio portraits and weddings who is actually taking me on a few weddings within the next month or two. I'm doing what I can do gain the experience but a lot of people I try to take photos of arent really interested in sitting infront of a camera.


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## imagemaker46 (Apr 13, 2013)

You can try finding a local camera club and talking to them about any studio lighting/portrait seminars they may have.  I know the one in my home town does all kinds of workshops.  I'm not a member of the club, but do know some of the people they get in for lectures and expect that others would learn from them.


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## dearlybeloved (Apr 13, 2013)

imagemaker46 said:


> You can try finding a local camera club and talking to them about any studio lighting/portrait seminars they may have.  I know the one in my home town does all kinds of workshops.  I'm not a member of the club, but do know some of the people they get in for lectures and expect that others would learn from them.



I live in auburn alabama and there's not much around here as it is. There's 1 camera store located within a 100 mile radius.  I don't even know of a club like that exists around here or how I could find it.


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## manaheim (Apr 13, 2013)

^ that kinda makes me wonder what your odds of success are.

I'm not trying to be a naysayer.. but think about it.  It's interesting.


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## dearlybeloved (Apr 13, 2013)

I'm definitely not going to be staying here long. I'm moving to Jacksonville Florida within a year.


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## imagemaker46 (Apr 13, 2013)

Do a google search on Auburn camera clubs.  If you're planning on moving within a year, then why are you setting up a studio?  You start to try and build a client base and then leave?  I see a new flaw in your business map.


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## dearlybeloved (Apr 14, 2013)

I havent really given much information or a timeline for my business map.  I am not opening anything in the next year. I am purchasing gear, learning to use it and practicing until I am ready to move forward. I also googled searched about camera clubs and theres nothing in my area at all. its sad really...


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## pgriz (Apr 14, 2013)

If there is enough business near your town to support a camera store, then there should be enough photographers to make up a club.  Why not ask the camera store to let you put up a sign looking for photographers interested in creating a club?  The store may see it as a business enhancer if they also rent out studio space, and studios are always welcome if the club is putting together a workshop.  If you're the founder of the club, that puts you in touch with both your potential competitors and potential partners, not to mention prospective clients.  You know the old saying:  Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer.


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## dearlybeloved (Apr 15, 2013)

pgriz said:


> If there is enough business near your town to support a camera store, then there should be enough photographers to make up a club.  Why not ask the camera store to let you put up a sign looking for photographers interested in creating a club?  The store may see it as a business enhancer if they also rent out studio space, and studios are always welcome if the club is putting together a workshop.  If you're the founder of the club, that puts you in touch with both your potential competitors and potential partners, not to mention prospective clients.  You know the old saying:  Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer.



Great advice, I'm pretty good in with the owner and he has invited me to be a second shooter for a few weddings over the next few months so things are looking up for more experience.  I'll bring it up to him about a camera club and I'll talk to him about doing some workshops and getting people involved.


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