# Should I quit this photography internship?



## Matrixgravity (Nov 20, 2011)

OK, I don't know whether or not to call it an internship or volunteer work, but anyway. I have a friend who is a fashion designer, and he recently introduced me to this girl who is a professional Photographer. She has been looking for an intern or rather an assist, to help her out on her shoots. There is no pay involved. It's just for experience. So since I am an amateur Photographer I decided it would be a good opportunity for me to jump on this. So I agreed and I just spent the last two days doing this internship with her, and I gotta say I think I am ready to quit honestly. All I really do is carry her bags around and help her set up the lighting. That's it. Then I literally sit there and spend hours watching her shoot various clients and I honestly thought there would be more hands on work involved but I think it's just really time-consuming doing this internship. Not only do I not get paid, it's a pain. The only upside to this internship is the fact that it helps me get out of the house more since I'm at home all the time. But aside from that, it's not very work-oriented. There isn't much to do.

So I'm thinking about just dropping it all together. But I'm wondering if I will regret this later on? I mean yeah, getting to see her do these shoots first hand is cool, but I already know how its done so I don't think I'm learning much from it all. Overall, I'm wondering if there really is much of a benefit at all. Plus, me and her don't really get along too much. She is a foreigner so our sense of humor is entirely different and she is kinda stingy at times and I hate women like that.. Is this how Photography internships typically even work?


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## MTVision (Nov 20, 2011)

Is there a point to learning aperture, ISO and shutter speed?


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## camz (Nov 20, 2011)

MTVision said:


> Is there a point to learning aperture, ISO and shutter speed?



Ha!


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## Matrixgravity (Nov 20, 2011)

I've already successfully learned how to utilize these functions on my camera. Plus, she isn't giving me any hands-on camera work which is my primary point.


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## MTVision (Nov 20, 2011)

It was a joke!
You're an intern - she isn't going to give you hands-on camera work after 2 days. She was probably an intern at some point (maybe not) and she had to carry stuff, fetch coffee, etc. Its called paying your dues. You gotta do what she wants you to do before she starts letting you get more involved.  I think you will be making a huge mistake if you quit. 

So, this photographer is stingy, as in cheap? You hate women who are cheap/not generous - I don't get it.....


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## rkhan (Nov 20, 2011)

If she is a pro , there is a lot to learn from her. But don't expect that she will give you hands on training. You have to play your part , and be more proactive in your learning experiences. Ask her questions, see how things are done,  get a review from her of your work...so on.


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## c.cloudwalker (Nov 20, 2011)

Yes you should. With your attitude you are not going to learn anything so what's the point...

1/ Internships here in France are called the new slavery because most of them don't pay   Not only that but a lot of companies don't really have anything much for the interns to do do beside fetching coffee. It is up to the intern to find something intelligent and worthwhile to do. Internships and/or assitantships are not school, it is up to the intern to learn something.

2/ Then again you seem to say you already know how things work which surprises me a great deal. According to your previous threads and the fact that you are not a working photog, I would believe quite otherwise. She is a pro and, no matter how good or bad she is, I'm sure there is something to learn during the shoots.

3/ Hands on? Carrying and setting up the gear is as hands on as you're going to get for quite a while. Did you really think she was going to turn the camera over to you and go take a coffee break while you played. Get real.

4/ She's a foreigner. She's stingy. Your sense of humor don't jive... No wonder you're sitting at home. This is work, not entertainment, and it is a situation you could find in any job.

Seems to me you should learn about life before you even attempt photography. Cheers.


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## Overread (Nov 20, 2011)

Just to add to the above you're carrying and setting up the lights - well that in itself is a lesson in lighting positions; soon enough you'll be told to set various powers on the lights and perform other tasks as needed; maybe holding reflectors or moving lighting around during the shoot (depending on the situation).

It's a case that you've got to pick the lessons up as you go along whilst remaining awake and attentive; otherwise you'll just be the gear carrying person. Also be forward with trying to help, showing personal motivation is far more likely to get them helping you than if you just await to be ordered around.


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## bazooka (Nov 20, 2011)

If you can match her quality of product, then yes, you should quit.  If so, let's see some comparisons.


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## thepaulreid (Nov 20, 2011)

Hi there, the acid test would be to organise your own shoot. If your photos are equal or better than your mentors, then she probably can't teach you anything to help you improve. If your mentor takes better photos than you can, then you need to ask her to teach you what she is doing.


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## Hotkeez (Nov 20, 2011)

Yes.   I have been learning more about ISO, shutter speed and aperture, and its totally changed my photography.


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## Hotkeez (Nov 20, 2011)

I agree *thepaulreid*.   We only learn by asking questions.   If you just sit and watching, you're wasting your time.


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## BlairWright (Nov 20, 2011)

While your sitting there watching you should be picking up on the angles, where the lights are and where the photographer is, how far the lights are from the subject, how the pro interacts with the client, etc.. after the shoot talk to the pro about the shot to try to get them to open up. 
If you just sit there like a rock you're not going to learn anything for sure. The pro is not going to drop everything during the shoot to answer questions for you so write them dow if you need to and ask after the shoot.

Good luck, B


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## Matrixgravity (Nov 20, 2011)

She only uses two lights and a simple backdrop for her shoots. There is nothing miraculous to be learned from that. All she does is shoot on manual with an external flash. I am already capable of shooting as good as her. The only difference is that I use a cheap Mirrorless camera, and she uses a 7D. If I had that kind of equipment, I'd also be set. But anyway, I decided to drop the internship because I don't have the strength to run around NYC at 9 AM just to carry her bags or help her with trivial things that she can personally do herself. I honestly don't know why I agreed to the internship. I guess its because I'm usually bored so I thought it would give me something interesting to do outside of home, but it's a waste of time.


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## MLeeK (Nov 20, 2011)

Um, that is what an internship is. You lug and do the crap work so that you can sit there and watch what she does, how she does it and learn from it. If she's of a sill level that is impressive? I'd be all over doing her grunt crap so I can pick her brain and see what she does.


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## Futurelight (Nov 20, 2011)

BlairWright said:


> While your sitting there watching you should be picking up on the angles, where the lights are and where the photographer is, how far the lights are from the subject, how the pro interacts with the client, etc.. after the shoot talk to the pro about the shot to try to get them to open up.
> If you just sit there like a rock you're not going to learn anything for sure. The pro is not going to drop everything during the shoot to answer questions for you so write them dow if you need to and ask after the shoot.
> 
> Good luck, B



I agree. Learn by watching then learn by doing, but, MOST importantly, LEARN! How you phrased your question stinks of arrogance and portrays a person who is looking down on their peers. Take on board EVERYTHING that you are able to see and periodically ask the question why. You have a door that has opened for you with this so, do the grunt work with your eyes WIDE open, watch everything that happens around you and, suck it up. Pay attention at all times, let go of your ego for the time it takes to learn, then get all you can from this experience. Or don't and see how far that gets you.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Nov 20, 2011)

It may be advantageous for you to attend real classes vs tote bags for a pro


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## Matrixgravity (Nov 20, 2011)

Well, I can already do all of that stuff that she does. Like I said, the only grand difference between me and her is our equipment. There is nothing that she is capable of doing that I already can't. She's rather good at marketing herself though which is something I can definitely say but aside from that, it's a hassle for me I guess.


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## 12sndsgood (Nov 20, 2011)

well if your on the same level as she is. go pro yourself and grab your own intern.


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## MTVision (Nov 20, 2011)

Matrixgravity said:
			
		

> She only uses two lights and a simple backdrop for her shoots. There is nothing miraculous to be learned from that. All she does is shoot on manual with an external flash. I am already capable of shooting as good as her. The only difference is that I use a cheap Mirrorless camera, and she uses a 7D. If I had that kind of equipment, I'd also be set. But anyway, I decided to drop the internship because I don't have the strength to run around NYC at 9 AM just to carry her bags or help her with trivial things that she can personally do herself. I honestly don't know why I agreed to the internship. I guess its because I'm usually bored so I thought it would give me something interesting to do outside of home, but it's a waste of time.


You aren't going to get far in this world if you quit everything because you aren't getting your way. That's what an internship is - you do the work nobody else wants to do. She isn't going to teach your for free. You are as capable as her? Then why aren't you a fashion photographer and why did you agree to an "internship" if you are that great after learning photography for a little while. You must be a freakin genius!


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## beds (Nov 20, 2011)

Matrixgravity said:


> Well, I can already do all of that stuff that she does. Like I said, the only grand difference between me and her is our equipment. There is nothing that she is capable of doing that I already can't. She's rather good at marketing herself though which is something I can definitely say but aside from that, it's a hassle for me I guess.



Less than a month ago you asked if it was worth learning the iso, aperture and shutter speed, i'm new to all this myself but i reckon there is no way you can do all the stuff that she does! theres a reason why she is the photographer and you carry the lights and make the tea!


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## mwcfarms (Nov 20, 2011)

The camera/gear doesn't make a better photographer. That comes down to vision and skill. I assist a wedding photographer in Calgary and all I ever do is lug gear it seems. Its very minimal second shooting. Basically I am her Sherpa but I have learned a lot about posing. Seems to me that your attitude has already soured you on this assignment and your just looking for validation to quit.


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## Matrixgravity (Nov 20, 2011)

12sndsgood said:


> well if your on the same level as she is. go pro yourself and grab your own intern.



I have no interest in going 'pro' with Photography. It is merely a hobby and nothing more..I only took the internship because I have nothing better to do during the weekend so I thought it would be fun to try out. Boy was I wrong.. lol


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## Matrixgravity (Nov 20, 2011)

beds said:


> Matrixgravity said:
> 
> 
> > Well, I can already do all of that stuff that she does. Like I said, the only grand difference between me and her is our equipment. There is nothing that she is capable of doing that I already can't. She's rather good at marketing herself though which is something I can definitely say but aside from that, it's a hassle for me I guess.
> ...



Yes, Yes I very much can. I'm tired of people portraying Photography as some sort of divine skill that very few are capable of doing. I can assure you, there is nothing even remotely difficult about it. Once you are able to grasp the primitive and most basic commands of a camera, and you continue to work yourself up to working with Manual, you have already mastered it. The next step is purchasing decent equipment, and then having an idea of how you desire to shoot your subject. There really is nothing elaborate about it. As I have already previously stated, I have decided to quit because there is nothing of benefit to be derived from this. There is nothing that she can do, that I already can't. I just don't have as much passion and drive as she does. Those are the only dividing lines. I have no desire to go Pro at all. I just do it as a hobby.


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## MTVision (Nov 20, 2011)

Matrixgravity said:
			
		

> Yes, Yes I very much can. I'm tired of people portraying Photography as some sort of divine skill that very few are capable of doing. I can assure you, there is nothing even remotely difficult about it. Once you are able to grasp the primitive and most basic commands of a camera, and you continue to work yourself up to working with Manual, you have already mastered it. The next step is purchasing decent equipment, and then having an idea of how you desire to shoot your subject. There really is nothing elaborate about it. As I have already previously stated, I have decided to quit because there is nothing of benefit to be derived from this. There is nothing that she can do, that I already can't. I just don't have as much passion and drive as she does. Those are the only dividing lines. I have no desire to go Pro at all. I just do it as a hobby.



Just because you can shoot in manual does not mean you have mastered it. Maybe you understand how to shoot on manual but can you get perfect pictures SOOC every time. And you don't need to purchase any extra equipment - the equipment doesn't do anything if the photographer sucks. 

Nobody portrayed it as divine skill that few have - shooting on manual isn't that hard but that's not all there is to it even thought that's what you seem to think.


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## 12sndsgood (Nov 20, 2011)

ahhhh so it just boils down to you being lazy lol.  i wouldn't train you anything on day two if you were working for me. i'd see if you actually wanted to learn and had what it takes. quitting on day two. im glad she didnt bother telling you anything at all.   

weird that yoru asking these questions at all since you obviously know it all though.  you remind me of my 6 year old.  he goes out, kicks a soccer ball once. figures he understandes everthing there is to know about soccer, and goes back in on the couch to watch cartoons.    knowing how your camera works ist just that knowing how the camera works. that doesnt make you a great photographer.


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## Matrixgravity (Nov 20, 2011)

12sndsgood said:


> ahhhh so it just boils down to you being lazy lol.  i wouldn't train you anything on day two if you were working for me. i'd see if you actually wanted to learn and had what it takes. quitting on day two. im glad she didnt bother telling you anything at all.
> 
> weird that yoru asking these questions at all since you obviously know it all though.  you remind me of my 6 year old.  he goes out, kicks a soccer ball once. figures he understandes everthing there is to know about soccer, and goes back in on the couch to watch cartoons.    knowing how your camera works ist just that knowing how the camera works. that doesnt make you a great photographer.



It has nothing to do with being 'lazy'. I quit for good reason. There is no reason for me to even stick around. I have better ways of spending my weekend than lugging some lazy girls bags around all over NYC for hours in the freezing cold.


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## beds (Nov 20, 2011)

Matrixgravity said:


> beds said:
> 
> 
> > Matrixgravity said:
> ...



Post some of your work then? if its good i will be the first to apologise


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## 12sndsgood (Nov 20, 2011)

Matrixgravity said:


> 12sndsgood said:
> 
> 
> > ahhhh so it just boils down to you being lazy lol.  i wouldn't train you anything on day two if you were working for me. i'd see if you actually wanted to learn and had what it takes. quitting on day two. im glad she didnt bother telling you anything at all.
> ...



you all ready said you were bored with nothing better to do and it was a way to get out of the house.  sounds kinda lazy to me.  i mean if you were bored why not just go out and enjoy taking photos. that is your hobby right?  and again, you quit after two days. you didnt even know if there was anything to learn. you never made it that far. you couldn't even handle carrying the lights. 

and if your not wanting to become pro or anything why would you be concerned with your marketing skills versus hers. someone who does photography as a hobby doesnt really need to market themselves.


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## MTVision (Nov 20, 2011)

Matrixgravity said:
			
		

> The only cool looking aesthetic effects you can do with a camera are Depth of field, and Bokeh. Other than that, is there really any point in learning how to use Aperture, ISO, and Shutter Speed? I mean, can't a beginner just purchase an expensive DSLR and just shoot on auto and produce professional looking pictures? I mean, the only reason you would need aperture,ISO, or shutter speed is if you wanted to create depth of field, or bokeh. Other than that, what is the point though? Thats what confuses me..There really doesn't seem like there is much to do with a camera aside from bokeh and depth of field..That is all I ever see..


This says it all ^^^^^


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## jake337 (Nov 20, 2011)

LOL!


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## bazooka (Nov 20, 2011)

Ok, now you MUST post your finest works of mastery.


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## margosoriginals (Nov 20, 2011)

It really sounds like you have learned everything you desire to learn about photography. And whether your work is REALLY as good as a professional, remains to be seen. To me, your overall attitude doesn't seem like someone who is very interested in learning photography at all. Which is totally fine- but I doubt that you are able to take professional quality photos. Not that I've seen your work, but your attitude suggests that you don't care enough to really critique yourself.


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## Tony S (Nov 20, 2011)

> Not that I've seen your work...



Has anyone here seen any of his work??


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## 12sndsgood (Nov 20, 2011)

think he's only made a couple posts. one saying he doesnt see a reason for shutterspeed, apeture, and iso since u can shoot just as good in auto. and this one saying he shoots as good as a pro, don't think he has had the time to post any pics do to his long two day apprenticeship.


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## bazooka (Nov 20, 2011)

12sndsgood said:


> don't think he has had the time to post any pics do to his long two day apprenticeship.



Well he will now!

I'm guessing he simply hasn't put his mastery into practice because he doesn't have the right equipment.


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## KmH (Nov 20, 2011)

Matrixgravity said:


> So I agreed and I just spent the last two days doing this internship with her, and I gotta say I think I am ready to quit honestly. All I really do is carry her bags around and help her set up the lighting. That's it. Then I literally sit there and spend hours watching her shoot various clients


Yep! That's what an internship is all about.


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## KmH (Nov 20, 2011)

Matrixgravity said:


> Well, I can already do all of that stuff that she does. Like I said, the only grand difference between me and her is our equipment. There is nothing that she is capable of doing that I already can't. She's rather good at marketing herself though which is something I can definitely say but aside from that, it's a hassle for me I guess.


WAIT!
WAIT!
WAIT!

Let me get my hipboots and respirator on before you shovel any more of that bull****. :lmao:  :lmao:  :lmao: 

Or start posting some of your photographic work.


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## mishele (Nov 20, 2011)

KmH.....don't be silly! This is the internet, you don't have to back anything you say up! :greenpbl:


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## shootermcgavin (Nov 20, 2011)

I can't believe after a 21 page post about not needing to learn photography functions to be a photographer anyone gives you a second thought anymore.  I feel for you because if you can't make it more than 2 days on a job that is easy as heck you are pretty sad.  Setting up lighting and watching someone seems like pretty easy work to me.  So you have no respect to learn and no desire to work, I think you should go back to playing World of Warcraft and give up on photography, you will eventually anyway why waste others time along the way.


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## usayit (Nov 20, 2011)

Whatever you decide, don't burn bridges...

Small world ... reputation travels fast.


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## Tony S (Nov 20, 2011)

Does this guy finally qualify for the "Best Troll" award??


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## tevo (Nov 20, 2011)

rkhan said:


> If she is a pro , there is a lot to learn from her. But don't expect that she will give you hands on training. You have to play your part , and be more proactive in your learning experiences. Ask her questions, see how things are done,  get a review from her of your work...so on.



Exactly, be PROACTIVE!



c.cloudwalker said:


> Yes you should. With your attitude you are not going to learn anything so what's the point...
> 
> 1/ Internships here in France are called the new slavery because most of them don't pay   Not only that but a lot of companies don't really have anything much for the interns to do do beside fetching coffee. It is up to the intern to find something intelligent and worthwhile to do. Internships and/or assitantships are not school, it is up to the intern to learn something.
> 
> ...



Way to glorify lazy smelly foreigners 

JK, what the man says is true.



Overread said:


> Just to add to the above you're carrying and setting up the lights - well that in itself is a lesson in lighting positions; soon enough you'll be told to set various powers on the lights and perform other tasks as needed; maybe holding reflectors or moving lighting around during the shoot (depending on the situation).
> 
> It's a case that you've got to pick the lessons up as you go along whilst remaining awake and attentive; otherwise you'll just be the gear carrying person. Also be forward with trying to help, showing personal motivation is far more likely to get them helping you than if you just await to be ordered around.



But he already knows everything remember....



BlairWright said:


> While your sitting there watching you should be picking up on the angles, where the lights are and where the photographer is, how far the lights are from the subject, how the pro interacts with the client, etc.. after the shoot talk to the pro about the shot to try to get them to open up.
> If you just sit there like a rock you're not going to learn anything for sure. The pro is not going to drop everything during the shoot to answer questions for you so write them dow if you need to and ask after the shoot.
> 
> Good luck, B



Yes, you should be learning by example.



Matrixgravity said:


> She only uses two lights and a simple backdrop for her shoots. There is nothing miraculous to be learned from that. All she does is shoot on manual with an external flash. I am already capable of shooting as good as her. The only difference is that I use a cheap Mirrorless camera, and she uses a 7D. If I had that kind of equipment, I'd also be set. But anyway, I decided to drop the internship because I don't have the strength to run around NYC at 9 AM just to carry her bags or help her with trivial things that she can personally do herself. I honestly don't know why I agreed to the internship. I guess its because I'm usually bored so I thought it would give me something interesting to do outside of home, but it's a waste of time.



Define "set". Two lights and a backdrop is extremely vague - I'm sure a profound intellectual / photography genius would know the significance of the placement/height/angle of each light right? Care to explain? And if you don't have the strength to carry camera gear, then you sir need to invest in a gym membership. But I'm sure you have already mastered working out, too.



Futurelight said:


> BlairWright said:
> 
> 
> > While your sitting there watching you should be picking up on the angles, where the lights are and where the photographer is, how far the lights are from the subject, how the pro interacts with the client, etc.. after the shoot talk to the pro about the shot to try to get them to open up.
> ...




This.



Matrixgravity said:


> Well, I can already do all of that stuff that she does. Like I said, the only grand difference between me and her is our equipment. There is nothing that she is capable of doing that I already can't. She's rather good at marketing herself though which is something I can definitely say but aside from that, it's a hassle for me I guess.




So, let's see some of your master work! We can tell you if a 7D will make your photos a "grand" difference.



MTVision said:


> Matrixgravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



He is a freakin genius! Hes such a good fauxtographer, he doesnt even need to post his work. Just look at his facebook!



mwcfarms said:


> The camera/gear doesn't make a better photographer. That comes down to vision and skill. I assist a wedding photographer in Calgary and all I ever do is lug gear it seems. Its very minimal second shooting. Basically I am her Sherpa but I have learned a lot about posing. Seems to me that your attitude has already soured you on this assignment and your just looking for validation to quit.



THISSSSSSS^



Matrixgravity said:


> 12sndsgood said:
> 
> 
> > well if your on the same level as she is. go pro yourself and grab your own intern.
> ...



You are the type of person that tevo lays out in front of the Dean's office, just because he is such a whiny *****. Worth the suspension.



Matrixgravity said:


> beds said:
> 
> 
> > Matrixgravity said:
> ...



If it isnt a divine skill, lets see some of your work! I expect nothing short of professional quality, amazing photographs.





MTVision said:


> Matrixgravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Half the photographers on this website would **** on your work with a disposable camera. Including Megan 



beds said:


> Matrixgravity said:
> 
> 
> > beds said:
> ...



THISSSS!! Has anyone even seen his work?



MTVision said:


> Matrixgravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh, so THATS what photography is! I thought it was an artistic balance between technical knowledge and aesthetic valuing, put together by age-old compositional guidelines, used to portray meaning, evoke feelings, and capture decisive moments that may never again be seen by the world. Guess not. Its just DoF and bokeh.



Tony S said:


> > Not that I've seen your work...
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone here seen any of his work??



He's worked pretty hard to make himself look like an ass..



KmH said:


> Matrixgravity said:
> 
> 
> > Well, I can already do all of that stuff that she does. Like I said, the only grand difference between me and her is our equipment. There is nothing that she is capable of doing that I already can't. She's rather good at marketing herself though which is something I can definitely say but aside from that, it's a hassle for me I guess.
> ...



Silly old man :lmao:



mishele said:


> KmH.....don't be silly! This is the internet, you don't have to back anything you say up! :greenpbl:










shootermcgavin said:


> I can't believe after a 21 page post about not needing to learn photography functions to be a photographer anyone gives you a second thought anymore.  I feel for you because if you can't make it more than 2 days on a job that is easy as heck you are pretty sad.  Setting up lighting and watching someone seems like pretty easy work to me.  So you have no respect to learn and no desire to work, I think you should go back to playing World of Warcraft and give up on photography, you will eventually anyway why waste others time along the way.



He trolls TPF while playing WoW.



Tony S said:


> Does this guy finally qualify for the "Best Troll" award??



No, he doesn't deserve an award.


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## beds (Nov 20, 2011)

theres 1 of his pics on this thread, page 3

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/beyond-basics/260715-how-can-i-take-photo-like-my-camera-3.html


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## 12sndsgood (Nov 20, 2011)

quite an appropriate pic since he says he doesn't get out of the house much.


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## tevo (Nov 20, 2011)

AND HERE IT IS - MATRIXGRAVITY'S PROFESSIONAL WORK






by Matrixgravity






LOOK AT THIS... TASTEFUL... SUBJECTLESS... BUSY............ PICTURE.


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