# Do I need a speedlight?



## David8 (Jan 3, 2013)

Hi guys! As you will see I'm new here. I have a nikon d3100 with a 18-55mm and a 55-200mm lens. I'm a little confused with the world of camera accessories out there. I understand that a speedlight will improve lighting in photos. However, I'm wondering just which one to buy. I understand it will depend a lot on budget, but is the entry level nikon sb-400 a good unit? Or what about the Metz and Yongnuo brands tjat I keep seeing come up? Is there an equally good unit for similar/less money? So you all know, budget is an issue - I don't have a lot to spend. I'd like to keep under $200 or $300. But I would rather not buy one and save up a bit more cash first so that the one I do buy will be a good choice. 

Thank you for all your yelp. 
David


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## binga63 (Jan 3, 2013)

Hi David then don't buy one until you have the cash to get a good one... ebay is your friend
do you own a tripod? a reflector?... 
You could get 2 Yongnous for the price of a sb 700 
Have you checked out  the site called ...Strobist
Has some interesting things that may help
Also search through the thousands of answers that are already here on this great site
Work out what you want to achieve first before jumping in with the wallet


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## Light Guru (Jan 3, 2013)

David8 said:


> I understand that a speedlight will improve lighting in photos.



Depends on what you are shooting. And that you did not say.


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## David8 (Jan 3, 2013)

Light Guru said:


> Depends on what you are shooting. And that you did not say.



Fair point. I will be shooting just about everything. Flowers, landscapes, cityscapes, beachscapes, nightscapes (is that a word??), portraits, etc. I understand that a speedlight won't improve some situations. But I also know that it will improve others. Which is why I didn't specify the shots I will be taking. 

I will definitely have a read of the links you have shared, thank you for that. 

David


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## David8 (Jan 3, 2013)

Sorry. I hope you don't mind me double posting. I can't edit my previous post through tapatalk. I do have a tripod.


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## jrizal (Jan 4, 2013)

For the most part you won't need a speedlight. But for "nightscapes" and low light shots you would need one. It is up to you if you would want an inexpensive one or an original one. I have the same gear as yours and I have settled for an inexpensive Sunpak (DF3000N) mainly for its iTTL and bounce capabilities and is much better than the Nikon SB-400. This will initially serve my photo needs for the time being. Define you needs so that we can recommend one that is suited for your requirements.


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## thetrue (Jan 4, 2013)

For nightscapes, your most valuable tools will be a GOOD tripod and a remote shutter release.


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## tirediron (Jan 4, 2013)

My personal theory on gear is simple:  If I don't have it, I must need it!  Unfortunately, my wallet doesn't always agree.  That said, IMO, a good speedlight is an essential part of any basic shooter's kit.  The Metz and YN units are both decent and well priced, but I generally recommend that a first speedlight should be a manufacturer's unit to ensure full TTL compatibility.  $300 will get you a nice used SB800; one of the best Nikon made.


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## Mike_E (Jan 4, 2013)

This, It's hard to learn if you don't know what you should be able to expect and the OEM gear will give you that baseline.



Now, having said that, the best investment you can make is spending the time to read everything that you can on the subject of lighting.  There are a number of great sources on the net but do yourself a favor and buy the book _Light, Science and Magic_!  As you progress in your reading you are going to find that most everybody writes in a style that says that they have THE answer.  There is NO 'the' answer there are only situations so don't get caught up in solutions looking for a problem or you will severely limit yourself.

You'll come across the strobist technique- this is a great technique but it is limited some people only use studio strobes.  Some people only use one light, some use five or more and some only use sunlight.  If you want to be a well rounded photographer using an 'only' technique is truely counter-productive.

So, save your pennies (unless you have the cash for an SB-) and start reading.  A journey of a thousand miles begins with one step- but it takes even longer if you step in the wrong direction.


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## David8 (Jan 4, 2013)

So the consensus is more reading and research and save up for a sb-800 or sb-900? Are those the only two worthwhile models? Or is the 700 okay as well?

Thank you for your help!


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## shefjr (Jan 4, 2013)

tirediron said:
			
		

> I generally recommend that a first speedlight should be a manufacturer's unit to ensure full TTL compatibility.  $300 will get you a nice used SB800; one of the best Nikon made.


I agree with this. ^^^
From my experience I bought as a noob 2 yn flashes and didn't have a clue how to use them with my camera. I then purchased an sb 700 and it was so much easier to learn. 
If I had it to do over again I would have for now just bought the sb 700 and later picked up the yn flashes.
I really like the sb 700 it works great and has my recommendation.
I hope my experience helps you or at least gives you something to think about. Additionally as stated above, read, read, read. You'll quickly learn that photography is so much more than pointing and actuating the shutter. 
Good luck David!
Cheers!


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## cgipson1 (Jan 4, 2013)

Manual flashes like the Yongnuo's are very inexpensive... and since they are full manual, they have an easy learning curve. You just set the shutter speed to what they require as sync speed, look at your distance to subject, and set the correct aperture for that distance and ISO. EASY! A lot of people seem to have a problem with that.. and I suspect it is because of a lack of understanding of what controls flash exposure.

TTL flashes are nice.. but not very accurate, you will not get consistent exposures that way... but people love them because they are less work, and don't require any thought (although they really do, if used correctly!) Third party (non OEM) TTL is usually very flaky... stick to OEM for TTL. 

OEM units ARE preferred.. but not just for the TTL capability (which is not always as accurate as one would wish)... they are more reliable, built more solidly, usually have more power and features... but do cost a lot more.

My call? *Buy an inexpensive manual flash to learn with*... yongnuo 460 / 560, Vivitar 283 / 285 or similar. Pick up an OEM unit (SB-700 or above) when you can. Flash will be useful for any portrait, even in daylight... you can use it for fill. Flowers.. yes.... or any other subject you want to light or have fill light on.


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## Mach0 (Jan 4, 2013)

Orrrr OEM older speedlight.... Love the older speedlights... Awesome build, reliability, power, etc.


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## Designer (Jan 4, 2013)

My advice is to keep saving up for a SB-910.  IMO, that is the first flash you should purchase.  You will be amazed at what that light can do.  I absolutely love mine.  The SB-910 ( and 900, IIRC) can function as either a commander (in the CLR system), OR a slave, which is really an interesting feature.


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## Designer (Jan 4, 2013)

David8 said:


> So the consensus is more reading and research and save up for a sb-800 or sb-900? Are those the only two worthwhile models? Or is the 700 okay as well?
> 
> Thank you for your help!



I think the main differences are the menus on the flash units.  The menus on the later models are somewhat easier to learn.  (or so I have read)


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## KmH (Jan 4, 2013)

I think it is essential to have a speedlight (hot shoe flash unit, or strobe light) if you want to be able to make quality images most of the time.

In many situations that are brighter than 'low light', a speedlight is still needed for fill, balance, or accent because the subject cannot be moved to accommodate the angle of the available light.

A key number when looking at speedlights is the GN number. The GN tells the buyer how powerful the speedlight is. Unfortunately, speedlight makers don't use a standard method of diseminating GN number specifics and use a variety of tricks to make their speedlight seem more powerful than it really is.
Guide number - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Camera maker speedlights have lots of bells and whistles, which is in part why they cost so much more.
All the bells and whistles also add levels of complexity to learning and using their speedlights.

If you get a Nikon unit, I recommend this inexpensive book - The Nikon Creative Lighting System: Using the SB-600, SB-700, SB-800, SB-900, SB-910, and R1C1 Flashes

Before you buy, you can also download and look through each Nikon speedlight user's manual and/or compare specifications at NikonUSA.com
Nikon Product Manuals available for download


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## joshua_ (Jan 4, 2013)

David8 said:


> Hi guys! As you will see I'm new here. I have a nikon d3100 with a 18-55mm and a 55-200mm lens. I'm a little confused with the world of camera accessories out there. I understand that a speedlight will improve lighting in photos. However, I'm wondering just which one to buy. I understand it will depend a lot on budget, but is the entry level nikon sb-400 a good unit? Or what about the Metz and Yongnuo brands tjat I keep seeing come up? Is there an equally good unit for similar/less money? So you all know, budget is an issue - I don't have a lot to spend. I'd like to keep under $200 or $300. But I would rather not buy one and save up a bit more cash first so that the one I do buy will be a good choice.
> 
> Thank you for all your yelp.
> David



Hello David, 

Another newb here, with info fwiw.  I have read some good books and been out really practicing and I very quickly decided I needed a flash.  I almost bought the Nikon sb-910, but then changed my mind and went with the Yongnuo YN-565EX ETTL Speedlite Flash.  So far I'm very happy with my choice. That Yongnuo, so far, has been excellent.  I can't say anything about longevity because I haven't had it long enough.  I also got a couple of their wireless triggers and have made good use of them as well.  I'm going to get another Yongnuo YN-565EX ETTL Speedlite Flash pretty soon.  For the price of the Yongnuo I could get two or three, or get another lens.  I decided to get the flash and another lens initially, but now I'm ready for another flash. (I'm not trying to say everyone needs a flash or three; but for what I'm messing around with the flash seems necessary.)

Please keep in mind that I'm a newb and I don't want to lead anyone down a wrong path.  You may be better going Nikon in the first place.  I won't know until I get some mileage on my flash to see if it holds up, or not.  It seems well built and performs well so far though.


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## jwbryson1 (Jan 4, 2013)

cgipson1 said:


> You just set the shutter speed to what they require as sync speed, look at your distance to subject, and set the correct aperture for that distance and ISO.



I have a decent understand of off camera flash and I own 5 speedlights (1 SB-700, 2 Yongnuo YN560 Mark I units, and 2 Yongnuo YN560 Mark II units), but I do not understand this comment very well.  Charlie, can you flush out the details a bit on the above quote?  I'm not sure I understand the steps in this process...Thanks.




cgipson1 said:


> My call? *Buy an inexpensive manual flash to learn with*...  yongnuo 460 / 560, Vivitar 283 / 285 or similar. Pick up an OEM unit  (SB-700 or above) when you can. Flash will be useful for any portrait,  even in daylight... you can use it for fill. Flowers.. yes.... or any  other subject you want to light or have fill light on.



I agree with this.  One of the great things about the Yongnuo flash units is that the flash will fire by optical slave without needing another receiver attached to the unit.  In other words, let's say you have 2 YN flash units and a radio transmitter / receiver set up for off camera flash.  Your transmitter is on the camera hot shoe and you have a receiver on 1 of your YN flashes.  You don't need to purchase a second receiver for the second YN flash unit--it will fire automatically when the first unit fires as long as you have it set to slave mode (S1).  This saves you money when buying radio triggers.  Plus, the YN units are built like a tank, they are inexpensive and super easy to use.  I love mine!


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## cgipson1 (Jan 4, 2013)

jwbryson1 said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> > You just set the shutter speed to what they require as sync speed, look at your distance to subject, and set the correct aperture for that distance and ISO.
> ...



I was referring to the GN chart that comes with most flashes.. usually.   Set aperture based on distance, GN, and ISO .... sorry should have been more verbose!  

Like this  http://forums.dpreview.com/files/w/TS560x560?url=http%3A%2F%2Finterneteffects.com%2Fmike%2Fbin%2FPICS%2Fachiever_guide.jpg&signature=MrmfIRnte0Z7D0lad933tKyqpiE=


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## shefjr (Jan 4, 2013)

My opinion on this is that he would be better off to buy the Nikon sb-whatever (700,800,900, etc) now. Simply because for me in my experience I listened to the "yougnuo flashes are cheap and simple to operate" statements and when I tried to use them I was lost as a noob to flash. I knew nothing about them or proper use of them(manuals IMO suck with them as well). It wasn't until I bought my sb700 and started using that, that I understood and now I could throw on one of my yougnuo flashes and would probably do ok. However, I would still prefer my sb700 in a uncontrolled (parties and the like) environment. 
This all of course is my opinion based on my experience. The OP may be more intelligent than I and may have a different experience.


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## tirediron (Jan 4, 2013)

cgipson1 said:


> jwbryson1 said:
> 
> 
> > cgipson1 said:
> ...



You're dating yourself!


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## David8 (Jan 4, 2013)

Wow. So many opinions! This is a busy forum. Thank you all so much. I think i have decided that I should go with OEM parts for now, and I will have a look for an sb-something that I can afford. This photography world is very expensive isn't it!


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## Vautrin (Jan 4, 2013)

David8 said:


> So the consensus is more reading and research and save up for a sb-800 or sb-900? Are those the only two worthwhile models? Or is the 700 okay as well?
> 
> Thank you for your help!



the SB700 works great.  I have one and love it.


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## cgipson1 (Jan 4, 2013)

tirediron said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> > jwbryson1 said:
> ...



YEP! But the old way still works... and it is EASY for anyone to learn!  lol!

TTL this and TTL that... phooey!  lol!  Some people need to take a basic physics class!


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## cgipson1 (Jan 4, 2013)

David8 said:


> Wow. So many opinions! This is a busy forum. Thank you all so much. I think i have decided that I should go with OEM parts for now, and I will have a look for an sb-something that I can afford. This photography world is very expensive isn't it!



OP.. I have two SB-900's and two Yongnuo 560's. The Yongnuo's only get used as portable background, hair or rim lights... because YES.. the SB's are better! But if you can't afford an SB, the others are a great alternative that you CAN afford easily. And I think EVERYONE should learn manual flash. and learn about how aperture affects flash exposure. TTL doesn't teach you anything! It really isn't hard....  don't let the bad press scare you off.


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## greybeard (Jan 4, 2013)

I use my speed light for at least 1/2 my shots.  I have a SB700, 2 x Yongnuo 565EX's, and use of a SB910.  So, I can give you a pretty informed opinion of them.  The SB910 and the Yongnuo's have about the same amount of power while the SB700 is maybe 2/3's of a stop less powerful.  Both the SB910 and yn-565EX are large full size flashes and are a bit over sized for your 3100.  The SB700 is really a perfect size and has plenty of power.  It also has more functions than the Yongnuo but not quite as many as the SB910.  You can't really go wrong with any of them but my favorite is the SB700.


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## Geaux (Jan 4, 2013)

If I were to do it all again, I'd do exactly like I did, sb600 and a YN460II later. I like my 600 for ttl ONLY when its on camera and shooting indoors.

Keep in mind, all of the commander stuff you hear won't mean anything to you. D3100 can't command an off camera flash (minus optical flash but that's straight manual mode anyways).


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## Designer (Jan 4, 2013)

The SB-910 (possibly others) has a slave function that will fire the flash upon ANY flash from ANY camera.  Recently I set mine up on a stand pointing toward where some children would be singing.  Before the singing, everyone's cameras that flashed set off the 910.  I was becoming concerned that it would deplete the batteries before I got my shots.  

Still a pretty cool function, if you ask me.

So yea, the D3100 will fire a remote SB-910 using its built-in flash. Likewise any cheap P&S of any brand with a built-in flash.


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## greybeard (Jan 4, 2013)

Designer said:


> The SB-910 (possibly others) has a slave function that will fire the flash upon ANY flash from ANY camera.  Recently I set mine up on a stand pointing toward where some children would be singing.  Before the singing, everyone's cameras that flashed set off the 910.  I was becoming concerned that it would deplete the batteries before I got my shots.
> 
> Still a pretty cool function, if you ask me.
> 
> So yea, the D3100 will fire a remote SB-910 using its built-in flash. Likewise any cheap P&S of any brand with a built-in flash.


I think you are talking about SU-4 slave function.  I know the SB700 and SB910 have this feature, SB800 probably does too.  This is a manual/automatic optical trigger function.  In Auto, the light mimics the power of the triggering flash or you can set it to Manual and adjust the power yourself. If you want to do off camera TTL flash with your D3100 you will need a COMMANDER.  This can be a SU-800 which communicates via infra red with other Nikon TTL compatible flashes or you can use a SB700 or SB910 as the COMMANDER with other flashes.  Cameras like the D7000 and others but not the D3000-D5100, have the COMMANDER function built into the pop-up flash.


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## David8 (Apr 9, 2013)

Sorry to revive an old thread. But this post directly continues from above. Some more thinking has gone into the speedlight, and some discussions with the s/o. She's worried about the cost of an sb700(@ ~$500). I'm worried the SB400 isn't going to be suitable (mainly worried about the directionality of the head). I'm thinking either a Yonguno YN560 III or YN565-EX. (~$86, $150 respectively). One of the differences I can see is the TTL compatibility with the 565. Am I going to miss this if I go for the cheaper option?


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## Mike_E (Apr 9, 2013)

Have you shopped for a used SB 600?  They're running around $250 on e-bay.

Shooting manual is easier after you're over the learning curve and most anybody can get there in a weekend or even half a day really.

If you are a casual shooter then TTL is probably the way to go for you.


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## David8 (Apr 9, 2013)

Mike_E said:


> Have you shopped for a used SB 600?  They're running around $250 on e-bay.
> 
> Shooting manual is easier after you're over the learning curve and most anybody can get there in a weekend or even half a day really.
> 
> If you are a casual shooter then TTL is probably the way to go for you.



Personally, I think I can live without TTL. It's something that I am sure I will get used to pretty quickly. I suppose I will just have to have a play around with the settings. Read up on the theory and all that... All the normal things.  I suppose my main question was if there was something naive that I'm not aware of...


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## Mike_E (Apr 9, 2013)

Nope, that's pretty much it.  About the only thing that TTL gives you is speed when shooting with the flash on camera for fill.

I'd get the cheaper one and a couple of Yongnuo rf-603n transceivers, a stand and an umbrella and go to it.  (the N in the rf-603n stands for Nikon, get three if you want to use it as a remote trigger for your camera)


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## David8 (Apr 9, 2013)

Mike_E said:


> Nope, that's pretty much it.  About the only thing that TTL gives you is speed when shooting with the flash on camera for fill.
> 
> I'd get the cheaper one and a couple of Yongnuo rf-603n transceivers, a stand and an umbrella and go to it.  (the N in the rf-603n stands for Nikon, get three if you want to use it as a remote trigger for your camera)



I'm thinking you're right. But something I don't understand, is why 3?


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## Ballistics (Apr 9, 2013)

Yong Nuo has a few cheap TTL flashes. 

While I do use manual the majority of the time, a TTL flash is incredibly useful when attached to a TTL cord when shooting 
in extremely low light situations and you're constantly moving around.


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## Mike_E (Apr 10, 2013)

David8 said:


> Mike_E said:
> 
> 
> > Nope, that's pretty much it.  About the only thing that TTL gives you is speed when shooting with the flash on camera for fill.
> ...




For using as a remote you need one for the flash, one on the camera to control the flash and plug into the camera to fire it and the third one to fire both of those.


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## David8 (May 3, 2013)

Look what arrived yesterday!




I went with the YN560. I had a bit of a play with it last night. I think I can definitely work with the manual flash. Not having TTL isn't going to be a big deal for me I think. I didn't get the wireless triggers this time around, I wanted to learn how to use the flash first. I have been looking around for some good deals on these though. 

Thanks for all your advice guys!


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## mitchota (May 3, 2013)

David8 said:


> Look what arrived yesterday!
> 
> I went with the YN560. I had a bit of a play with it last night. I think I can definitely work with the manual flash. Not having TTL isn't going to be a big deal for me I think. I didn't get the wireless triggers this time around, I wanted to learn how to use the flash first. I have been looking around for some good deals on these though.
> 
> Thanks for all your advice guys!



Good luck on your purchase with the 560. I'm sure it will serve you well. I have a SB-600 that I use with my D80 when I need TTL for flash, but I actually just picked up a couple of YN-560II's that I'm waiting to come so I can start learning how to do some strobist stuff. I also picked up a pair of Cactus V5 triggers and I've been happy with them.

In my research on triggers, I read some good things on the Yongnuo RF-603 triggers as well. One of the only reasons I went with the V5 over the Yongnuo trigger is that the RF-603 has some known issues with the SB-600, so I didn't want to get stuck with triggers that wouldn't work with all my flashes. I also like the transceiver design so I don't have to have a set of separate transmitters and receivers -- I can just grab them, flip the switch to either TX or RX, and get shooting.

Again, happy shooting with your new flash. I always love getting new stuff that I can use with my camera!


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## Buckster (May 3, 2013)

mitchota said:


> One of the only reasons I went with the V5 over the Yongnuo trigger is that the RF-603 has some known issues with the SB-600, so I didn't want to get stuck with triggers that wouldn't work with all my flashes. I also like the transceiver design so I don't have to have a set of separate transmitters and receivers -- I can just grab them, flip the switch to either TX or RX, and get shooting.


Just an F.Y.I., the RF-603's are transceivers as well, and you don't even have to flip a switch.


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## David8 (May 4, 2013)

Buckster said:


> Just an F.Y.I., the RF-603's are transceivers as well, and you don't even have to flip a switch.



So am I better off with 603's?? Or is it not that much more hassle?


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## Buckster (May 4, 2013)

David8 said:


> Buckster said:
> 
> 
> > Just an F.Y.I., the RF-603's are transceivers as well, and you don't even have to flip a switch.
> ...


Not having used the Cactus, I can only tell you that I think the RF-603's were the right choice for me and my Canon bodies and assorted lights.  They're about half the price of the V5s from what I see, auto-transmit or receive with no TX/RX switch to confuse matters, and have been utterly dependable for me.  I've used several different trigger systems over the years, and wouldn't hesitate to choose these again if they were lost or stolen.


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## mitchota (May 5, 2013)

Buckster said:


> mitchota said:
> 
> 
> > One of the only reasons I went with the V5 over the Yongnuo trigger is that the RF-603 has some known issues with the SB-600, so I didn't want to get stuck with triggers that wouldn't work with all my flashes. I also like the transceiver design so I don't have to have a set of separate transmitters and receivers -- I can just grab them, flip the switch to either TX or RX, and get shooting.
> ...



I was really considering the 603's until I read about the issues with the SB-600. Since sometimes my SB-600 is what comes with me on the shoot and I don't always have the angle/line-of-sight to use the commander on my D80, I wanted to make sure my radio triggers worked with everything I have. I probably would have gone with the 603's if I didn't have the SB-600. I like the fact it can figure out the TX/RX thing without me telling it what to do, and the cheaper price with good quality is always great!

David - Since you have the YN560 as your speedlight, I'd say go with the 603's. They are simpler in design (less to go wrong), and they are cheaper than the V5's.


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