# Whats the equipment that "Picture People" use?



## from_iowa (Feb 12, 2014)

Probably been asked before, but I searched and couldn't find it so I'm asking it.

I want to start my own photography studio where I just do family pictures at my studio, just like Picture People does. So I called Picture People and they told me they use 40D Canon camera. Now what I want to know is what are all the equipment that they used. For example light, camera lens and so on. I am asking because I don't dislike their pictures and wouldn't mind doing the same quality and it seems like they always only have 1 settings that works for everything. Basically I want to see how much would it cost to buy all the things to start a studio doing the same thing Picture People does, minus the printing. I'm asking this way because I am very new to photography and just imitating them would be easier.


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## KmH (Feb 12, 2014)

The local Picture People store closed about 2 years ago.

Copying their set up and business model may not be a sound business decision.


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## Designer (Feb 12, 2014)

Dear from;  just as Keith has written, it might not be the best idea to copy a business model that has failed.  

The cost of getting into a professional studio can be anywhere from (realistically) $10,000 to $50,000, not including the studio space.  

Some professionals could possibly get by on a shoestring budget of less than $5,000, but they would be working within constraints.  

Mods, please note; I am not flaming this noob.


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## Derrel (Feb 12, 2014)

Before ours closed down, they had what looked to me to be about a 45-inch, white shoot-through umbrella mounted fairly high up, on a ceiling-mounted track system; a 32-inch umbrella fill light right near the camera (very close to the camera for the classical "*on-axis fill light*", and the camera was on a camera stand, which is a VERY heavy, I-beam-like stand that has basically an exceptionally heavy three-footed metal base with lockable caster-style wheels, and a short arm that the camera is mounted to. This rig is sooooo heavy there's no way a casual thief would be able to pick it up and sprint away with it...I would guess the camera stand weighed in the neighborhood of 225 pounds and stand stood six feet tall.

THis is the kind of basic studio lighting stuff that OTHER "kid pics" places use.


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## e.rose (Feb 12, 2014)

PLEASE... please... tell me this is a freakin' joke.



Designer said:


> Mods, please note; I am not flaming this noob.


[Mods, please note; I am.]


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## from_iowa (Feb 12, 2014)

Thanks for the reply Derrel. the Picture People in our town use a 40D camera and it has a antenna connected to it. I think its to activator the big umbrella flash. Would you know what that is called? Also do you think a 40D is enough to open a normal studio for family pictures? Or would you have some suggestion that would be better?


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## Overread (Feb 12, 2014)

Erose step away from the keyboard or I'll do something drastic (like er dig up your early posts  or bombard your with bunnies and bacon). 





As for the setup Derrel has given some idea of the equipment. However its important to realise that this kind of approach your taking to copy a single lighting setup will give you a single product to work with. Firstly even with a general idea of the equipment you'll have to have some idea how to set them up - angle them and set the relative powers. The setup itself might be standard but you can bet it was designed by someone who knew what they were doing in the first place. 

Secondly it leaves you very vulnerable because you'll end up just a cookie-cutter - you won't have the skills to adapt the lighting to suit different subjects; nor even different situations. The net result is that you'd not be able to offer a breadth of skills/products/styles to attract a bigger customer base. Also remember many of these kind of setup often work only because the people operating the camera gear do so for very low pay. It's not a skilled job with much growth and more just a fill-in job or side job (not main income - in an ideal world of course). The company makes profit because its got booths everywhere sending money in - but the ground forces doing the work are minimal pay. 


I'd instead strongly encourage you to first invest in learning the core skills. IT might take some time and it might sound boring - but it will leave you all the better equipped and able to offer a much better product. 

I've no idea of your overall level of skill/understanding - but at a gues from your comment I'd strongly advise reading:

Understanding Exposure by Bryan Peterson
The Digital Photography Book 1 through to Book 4 by Scot Kelby
Light Science and Magic - edition 4  

That will give you a good grounding in the basics. From there you can browse the bookshelves and pick up some of the specific lighting setup books that are out there for portraiture - safe in the fact that with the core concepts of exposure and lighting theory you'll be able to adapt the examples and understand how and why they work as well as better how and when to use them and modify them in a real world situation.


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## e.rose (Feb 12, 2014)

Overread said:


> Erose step away from the keyboard or I'll do something drastic (like er dig up your early posts  or bombard your with bunnies and bacon).



You can't. A previous mod erased my former self by accident, remember? Besides... It's not the premise of this person being new and just starting out that I find hilarious. It's everything else.

I'd quote and elaborate, but I feel like you may send your hatted dog after me... and I'm about to go post some photos soooooooo... we can't have that.

I WILL, however, take the bunnies and bacon.

I love bunnies.

I also love bacon.

And if you throw some wine in there for good measure, you'll be my favorite forever. :heart: :hug::


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## Overread (Feb 12, 2014)

from_iowa said:


> Thanks for the reply Derrel. the Picture People in our town use a 40D camera and it has a antenna connected to it. I think its to activator the big umbrella flash. Would you know what that is called? Also do you think a 40D is enough to open a normal studio for family pictures? Or would you have some suggestion that would be better?



40D is an older camera in todays market; though its still a very capable camera. In  a studio situation the lighting control is often where the majority of the quality is - then the lens - then the camera body. So you can certainly get away with a more budget body. 

That said if I were moving into that market I'd try for a second hand 5D. It's fullframe and the larger sensor size generally benefits this kind of photography. Whilst the 5D is older, its still a very capable camera body and was more affordable pro choice in its day (which wasn't that long ago). The only limit is that you can't use EF-s (ie crop sensor) lenses on it; but that only blocks you from 9 or so Canon lenses and a similarly limited number in the 3rd party lines. 
A second hand 50mm f1.4 (new if you can afford it) would be an ideal compliment (If getting new consider the Sigma 50mm f1.4 - its a newer design than the Canon and thus is capable of generally besting it in side by side tests). If you're much more budget limited a 50mm f1.8 will do decently well for a very low costs (its not that durable though and honestly I'd really go for the f1.4 if you're going to use it extensively - my sisters 50mm f1.8 simply fell apart on her (sadly the internal brackets are small, thin plastic to keep the costs down - and they will snap)


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## Overread (Feb 12, 2014)

e.rose said:


> Overread said:
> 
> 
> > Erose step away from the keyboard or I'll do something drastic (like er dig up your early posts  or bombard your with bunnies and bacon).
> ...



Darn it I can't blackmail you - but I can deny you wine - its the middle of the week - and you're not safe on that - heck I don't think you're safe on coffee either


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## e.rose (Feb 12, 2014)

Overread said:


> e.rose said:
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> > Overread said:
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You're not wrong...


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## manicmike (Feb 12, 2014)

I just started cooking and would like to open a restaurant. Can someone show me how to copy and make the menu items from a top restaurant. 




Same logic.


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## from_iowa (Feb 12, 2014)

Thanks for the reply. i wanted to take up a photography class but our local community college doesn't offer any. I already have a store (rent free) available. I just wanted to do the same-old same-old department store quality shots. But what I was amazed about when at Picture People was that they never changed a single thing, and all their pictures come out good. I was thinking if I would keep it simple, i could also pull off something like that. Anyway, my budget for camera lens and lighting is $3,000 and id rather buy new. I kinda feel like I need buy a camera and start using it before I can actually learn, so first step is to buy some books and buy an actual camera. Any suggestions?


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## e.rose (Feb 12, 2014)

manicmike said:


> I just started cooking and would like to open a restaurant. Can someone show me how to copy and make the menu items from a top restaurant.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Except we're not talking about a top restaurant here.

We're talking more about McDonald's "Special Sauce". :roll:


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## Overread (Feb 12, 2014)

With a $3K budget I'd:

1) Get a 5D original second hand - its a well built body and there are still many good copies around with a good shutter life. I know you want new, but this really is an ideal tool that won't take a away too much of your budget. There are other options but they are going to cost you more and you need the rest of your budget for glass and lighting. Chances are you can pick one up with a few spare batteries and a battery grip for not a huge amount. If you can get one with a grip; the grips make portrait aspect shooting a LOT easier because you don't have to twist your right hand over or under the camera (that's fine for 5 seconds; but shoot a while day like that and your wrist will be very sore). 

2) A Sigma 50mm f1.4 in Canon mount - there's even an instant rebate on it currently at Adorama so its very affordable
Sigma 50mm f/1.4 EX DG HSM AF Lens for Canon DSLRs #310101 -USA warranty 310101

3) $1K - $1.5K into lighting gear and studio equipment. I've left this somewhat vague as a rough value because its a variable market of qualities equipment and prices. Plus its a market area where I can't best advise on a setup. But that's the rough amount of budget I'd associate with it

4) Adobes cloud subscription for Photoshop CS5 and Lightroom. Chances are you can get away with this kind of work with just Lightroom itself; but CS5 is a good backup to have if you find the need to do any more extensive editing (it might not even be that complex; Lightroom is great but it can't do everything). 
Lightroom will help take care of managing the files and photos you get - batch processing them (in JPEG or RAW) as well as giving some basic selective and global editing options. CS5 is there for everything else. 
This will be on monthly subscription but shouldn't be hard to afford for an earning business.
edit - this costs me something like £10 per month at present for both programs as part of an offer; but US side it shouldn't be much more even if there isn't an offer. You don't need their full package of software; just access to those two programs 

5) Remaining budget left for other items; this could be anything from basic accessories such as spare batteries and memory cards through to company items or hard-disks for backup/data storage. It also accounts for tripods and any furniture* you might need for props




* tip - head down to local market auctions and auction houses. Chairs and other furniture sells for tiny amounts because most people don't want it and don't come with any means of transporting it home. You can also pick up a load of interesting props or items to furnish your studio area for very little in cost. You can get some good decent quality items and save yourself a huge cost at the same time.


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## runnah (Feb 12, 2014)

What the stat? 9 out of 10 new business fail in the first year? This is why!

Anyways it always boggles the mind that people think they can start a business without even knowing how to do the thing they want to sell!!!


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## from_iowa (Feb 12, 2014)

Thanks for the reply. I know its probably best to go with what you told me, but I have never been a second-hand kinda guy, I like new stuff because I know they have warranty. My total budget is 6k, so I want to spend 3k just on camera and lens. I do have a SONY DSC-HX1, but I don't think I can get good practice with it.


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## e.rose (Feb 12, 2014)

from_iowa said:


> Thanks for the reply. I know its probably best to go with what you told me, but I have never been a second-hand kinda guy, I like new stuff because I know they have warranty. My total budget is 6k, so I want to spend 3k just on camera and lens. I do have a SONY DSC-HX1, but I don't think I can get good practice with it.



There's nothing wrong with buying new.

I don't buy anything used.

I have too many bad experiences with used electronics (RIP 2007 MBP).

There IS something wrong with buying your first camera and immediately trying to open up shop, though.

By all means... get a camera... learn some sh*t. Practice for a few years and THEN... THEN... maybe go into business. Maybe.


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## Overread (Feb 12, 2014)

With larger budget you could go new and could also consider Nikon (I suggested Canon before because of the budget friendly 5D). Going new Canon side I'd consider:

Canon 6D Canon EOS-6D DSLR Camera Body 8035B002
Sigma 24-70mm f2.8 Sigma 24mm-70mm f/2.8 EX Aspherical IF EX DG HSM Lens for Canon DSLRs 571101

Canon also makes a zoom in the same range, but the M1 is now off the market (second hand only) and the new is a lot more in cost. I suggest the zoom as with the inflated budget to spend toward a camera alone (leaving the other $3K open for lighting and other gear) the zoom offers a more flexible working setup as you can adapt your focal length to suit.
Otherwise you could still consider the Sigma 50mm f1.4 - if you go prime I'd try to get two - a 50mm and an 85mm into the budget if you can. 



Erose also makes good sense (when not craze with coffee). Get the camera; get the books; practice and get good with it - then read up and get yourself a good lighting setup to suit and a stuffed toy and practice even more with lighting setups (people work well but stuffed toys never get bored of being flashed again and again and again whilst you experiment). 

A good grounding will give you the skills; the confidence and the adaptability to provide a worthwhile service instead of something that will earn a tiny amount of money and fold up in under a year from lack of real income.


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## e.rose (Feb 12, 2014)

Overread said:


> Erose also makes good sense (when not craze with coffee). Get the camera; get the books; practice and get good with it - then read up and get yourself a good lighting setup to suit and a stuffed toy and practice even more with lighting setups (people work well but stuffed toys never get bored of being flashed again and again and again whilst you experiment).
> 
> A good grounding will give you the skills; the confidence and the adaptability to provide a worthwhile service instead of something that will earn a tiny amount of money and fold up in under a year from lack of real income.



Can I have my wine now?


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## Overread (Feb 12, 2014)

Just another point; many of the choices you have to make with equipment will be personal. There are many approaches to the same or similar results with photography. As a result of this making choices with little real world experience can be very daunting because people are providing opinions based on their experiences and understanding; but you've no way to sort those experiences from each other nor to apply them in a real world situation to yourself. 
If you start with just the camera and lens - learn to use it and then build up toward lighting setups you'll find it a lot easier to get into it. You'll be able to make the choices and make better choices because suddenly those theories and ideas start to make sense in a real world context to yourself.

There's no real fast way into it unless you go work for an established firm as an intern/apprentice/assistant. A lot of people who jump in the deep end earn a tiny bit of money; but really nothing more than hobby pocket money and the "company" (such as it is and oft not even legally registered) folds within a year or so. Some get a little further if they've got a big network of friends; but they oft never break out of their friend groups for work; and again the profit is tiny (in fact most of the time there isn't actually any profit at all once you factor in the costs of gear-travel-fuel-time-labour etc..). Many people run a "photography business" that is just glorified pocket money - those who want to make it a proper earning job tend to need and have far better photographic understanding - coupled importantly with business understanding (this last part is critical as well - a modest photographer but a good businessman will go far better than a good photographer and a poor businessman). 



e.rose said:


> Can I have my wine now?



Only if you've had a full main meal first


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## from_iowa (Feb 12, 2014)

Great, I think I just might buy those combination and just start shooting pictures. One last question: Whats the name of those systems where the umbrella light only flash when we take a picture? Like theres an antenna connected to the camera, Ive seen picture people do this.


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## tirediron (Feb 12, 2014)

from_iowa said:


> ...my budget for camera lens and lighting is $3,000 and id rather buy new. I kinda feel like I need buy a camera and start using it before I can actually learn, so first step is to buy some books and buy an actual camera. *Any suggestions?*


Yep, spend the money on training and education (both business and photographic, but mostly business).  $3000 isn't even going to buy the lighting you need for a studio (especially if you insist on buying new).  Having a location is a great start and will save you several thousand dollars a month, but there's a lot more to consider (licenses, insurance, props...).  

My "minimum" gear to open a studio would be:  2x FF bodies, 24-70 f2.8, 70-200 f2.8,  and 85 f1.4.  That should hit the belt at around $8000 or so... next you need lighting.  Four lights would be a minimum.  Dynalite or Speedotron will run you $3-4000, plus of course you need modifiers.... another $1000 or so.  Props and backgrounds... probably get that in at or under $1000...  odds and ends such as a flash meter, Xrite card, etc...  another $1000ish..  For those playing along at home, we're right around $15K, and we haven't even touched on computers, software, POS system, advertising...  

Not saying you can't do it, but I'm willing to bet you're on track to become a statistic with your current plan.


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## manaheim (Feb 12, 2014)

Looking to copy the equipment that a business uses with the assumption that the equipment is somehow fundamental in your interpretation of their business is rather severely missing the point.

Let me give you another example. I want to be an author. I hear Harry Potter is a huge success, so I'm going to write a story about a wizard who lives under the stairs.*  Another example... if someone makes an excellent meal and you want to be a good cook like them, you don't ask them what kind of stove they are using. 

Total miss... but don't feel bad.  It's common.

You need to learn about photography. And while equipment is a part of that, it is largely secondary to all the other very important things you need to understand... composition, exposure, artistic representation of subjects, emotion, etc. These are things that are not contained in any camera or any flash.


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## e.rose (Feb 12, 2014)

Overread said:


> Only if you've had a full main meal first



Does Chef Boyardee count?


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## Nevermore1 (Feb 12, 2014)

e.rose said:


> There IS something wrong with buying your first camera and immediately trying to open up shop, though.
> 
> By all means... get a camera... learn some sh*t. Practice for a few years and THEN... THEN... maybe go into business. Maybe.



I have to agree with this.  Depending on how much time you have to focus on learning about your camera and photography it could take years for you to become good enough that someone would be willing to pay for your work (of course you may have a natural knack for it and pick it up really quick).  I'm no where near to being a professional or even semi-pro but do love going out and taking photos whenever I can (which unfortunately isn't very often due to work and family).  I would love to one day be able to do some type of professional photography but am aware that getting a camera and some equipment is not the way to try to start a business and does not make you a "professional".  I hope that you have some prior experience in photography or some form of art so you are not starting without any background in the field at all (which is the impression I am getting from reading your post, I apologize if I am mistaken).

Like others have said start out with buying a nice camera and a few lenses and learn how to use that and practice a lot then see how your work looks and decide if this is really something you want to do.  Personally I think it would be a poor decision to spend thousands of dollars on equipment and then find out it is not what you thought it would be.  Have you considered applying for a job at either The Picture People or another place that is similar (JC Penney's, Walmart, Sears, etc) to see if it is something you would enjoy doing?  That would also give you the opportunity to see what type of equipment they use and how to use it.  I can understand wanting to "be your own boss" but working at one of these places first may be better than just jumping in head first without really knowing what you are doing and you will gain some valuable experience.


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## GerryDavid (Feb 12, 2014)

runnah said:


> What the stat? 9 out of 10 new business fail in the first year? This is why!
> 
> Anyways it always boggles the mind that people think they can start a business without even knowing how to do the thing they want to sell!!!



He never said he was going to copy their pricing structure.    And photographers have to start out somewhere, by buying a camera and studio stuff (s)he can practice and develope their craft while making soem money.  It can be part time while you get things figured out.

I love my Canon 6D, full frame and not to expensive.  I do recommend a 2nd camera for "when" the main camera goes on the fritz.  As for lens I have found the 24-70 is a nice lens for most studio situations back when I was using a crop body.  And it was nice not having to change lens all the time.  With full frame Im usually using 85mm or 130mm in studio, 50mm for wider shots.

you can buy a three background hook system with pulleys from bh for about $100 and a few rolls of 110" wide paper for $60 each to get going.  Then work on your denny backgrounds over time. 

I bought three elinichrom dlite4 strobes for about $1200 all together, they are great but once in a while one will stop flashing at the correct power until I turn it off and back on again, but the lights are great in that they produce alot of power and produce the same color at various power outputs.  And they use a built in trigger system if you wish.  Im usually at iso 100 F5 in studio when the flashes are at F2 *lowest power*

An older version of photoshop can be had for cheap, or $10 a month if you want to rent it.  A $300 computer is sufficient enough for it, although more money will make you more efficient time wise.

Dont forget equipment insurance, liability insurance and keeping income tax aside.  

And dont forget marketing, website and a business cell.    and most importantly know your cost of doing business if you want to do this full time.  there is a reason walmart photo lab went out of business.


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## robbins.photo (Feb 12, 2014)

e.rose said:


> PLEASE... please... tell me this is a freakin' joke.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Easy hon.. easy.  Have some Nyquil... and retract the claws.  Last thing we need is for Overread to bring out the BunnyBacinator 5000 and open up with some grazing fire.  Lol


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## e.rose (Feb 12, 2014)

robbins.photo said:


> e.rose said:
> 
> 
> > PLEASE... please... tell me this is a freakin' joke.
> ...



ARE YOU KIDDING?! THAT'S THE ***FIRST*** THING WE NEED!!!!!

:lmao:


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## robbins.photo (Feb 12, 2014)

from_iowa said:


> Thanks for the reply. i wanted to take up a photography class but our local community college doesn't offer any. I already have a store (rent free) available. I just wanted to do the same-old same-old department store quality shots. But what I was amazed about when at Picture People was that they never changed a single thing, and all their pictures come out good. I was thinking if I would keep it simple, i could also pull off something like that. Anyway, my budget for camera lens and lighting is $3,000 and id rather buy new. I kinda feel like I need buy a camera and start using it before I can actually learn, so first step is to buy some books and buy an actual camera. Any suggestions?



Greetings Iowa, if I mght make a recommendation - I really wouldn't advise spending anywhere near that much on equipment, in fact what I'd recommend you do is get yourself a decent entry level DSLR of some sort and spend at least the next few years taking pictures and specifically portraits before you ever even consider trying to open a photography business.  I realize that isn't what you want to hear, but the truth is if you go out and spend 3000 on equipment most likely you'll be selling it off at a huge loss in a year or two after your business fails.  Again I'm not saying this to be harsh or mean, that is just the simple reality of it.  Even very professional photographers with years and years of experience find it difficult to maintain a store front operation and make any kind of a profit.


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## robbins.photo (Feb 12, 2014)

e.rose said:


> robbins.photo said:
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Oh sure, you duck behind me and I end up with a ticked off bunny slathered in bacon grease hitting my face at 90 mph.  Like we haven't been down that road before.. lol


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## e.rose (Feb 12, 2014)

robbins.photo said:


> e.rose said:
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BUT THEN I GET TO KEEP THE BUNNY!!!

I mean I'd have to bathe him first, but it'd be totally worth it.


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## manaheim (Feb 12, 2014)

I'm not sure whether or not we're talking to me, but as long as it involves e.rose bathing me, I'll pretend like it is.


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## robbins.photo (Feb 12, 2014)

e.rose said:


> robbins.photo said:
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Sigh.. well, ok I guess.  But this time you get to be the one to explain to the folks in the ER how I wound up with a concussion and a bunny shaped imprint in my forehead.


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## e.rose (Feb 12, 2014)

robbins.photo said:


> e.rose said:
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YAAAAYAYAYAYAYAYYAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!

YOU'RE THE ***BEST***!!!!!! :hug:: :hug:: :hug::


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## Designer (Feb 13, 2014)

from_iowa said:


> Great, I think I just might buy those combination and just start shooting pictures. One last question: Whats the name of those systems where the umbrella light only flash when we take a picture? Like theres an antenna connected to the camera, Ive seen picture people do this.



You probably saw Radio Popper.  There is also Pocket Wizard, and lots of cheap knock-off brands as well.  One unit sits on the camera, and the corresponding unit is attached to the flash which is behind the umbrella.  (or in front of it sometimes)


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## Overread (Feb 13, 2014)

from_iowa said:


> Great, I think I just might buy those combination and just start shooting pictures. One last question: Whats the name of those systems where the umbrella light only flash when we take a picture? Like theres an antenna connected to the camera, Ive seen picture people do this.



I would get familiar with the camera and lens first and learn some lighting theory before looking into those directly for a purchase. Going wireless is a very good move as it really helps cut down on cables and frees you up to move around the studio without tripping (and more importantly without your clients tripping over and dragging equipment crashing down). 

Radio wireless is the ideal option as it gives no wires and totally free movement. Laser or IR are ok but rely on a beam so need direct line of sight to the equipment which is hard if you've got things at odd angle and have big softboxes/umbrellas blocking the way. There is also triggers based on when one flash fires the others pick up the light and fire as well. For a studio this last option can be a cheap and fairly reliable approach - outside though sometimes they won't "see" the flash light amidst the ambient light from the sun. 

If you want radio Pocket Wizard are the leading brand - some studio lights also have built in radio which can tie into PW bandwidths. Cactus Triggors are also an options and offer a more budget friendly approach with decent results. They might not have all the flashy features of the PW but for a general simple trigger they work well. 


But like I said learn the camera and read up on lighting theory before making these purchases - you need a clear idea of what you want and need to achieve it. Also if you try to learn too much all at once you'll get swamped with too much information. Even if its not that complex the volume will leave you reeling to put it all together.


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## astroNikon (Feb 13, 2014)

Overread said:


> ...... or bombard you with bunnies and bacon).


Is there a waiting list for this ... how do we get on this list ??  


FYI ... use PocketWizards .. the camera antenna


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## e.rose (Feb 13, 2014)

You have to make nice with me, and maybe I'll let you stand behind Robbins.Photo to get a bunny. :lmao:


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## astroNikon (Feb 13, 2014)

e.rose said:


> You have to make nice with me, and maybe I'll let you stand behind Robbins.Photo to get a bunny. :lmao:


But Robbins.Photo is a BIG Gorilla ... how would I be able to get anything after him ??


FYI .. also look at Yongnuo radio triggers for flashes .. a bit cheaper than PocketWizards


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## e.rose (Feb 13, 2014)

astroNikon said:


> e.rose said:
> 
> 
> > You have to make nice with me, and maybe I'll let you stand behind Robbins.Photo to get a bunny. :lmao:
> ...



No, no, no.

The plan is to have him get HIT with the bunny after Over fires it... and then when it's sitting all cute and dazed and confused, you come out from behind Robbins.Photo and scoop up the bunny, take him home, bathe him to cleanse him of the bacon grease, and love him forever and ever and ever. :heart:


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## GerryDavid (Feb 13, 2014)

astroNikon said:


> e.rose said:
> 
> 
> > You have to make nice with me, and maybe I'll let you stand behind Robbins.Photo to get a bunny. :lmao:
> ...



for those using flashes manually, you can get $20 trigger/receiver sets off of ebay.  the only issue is the mount is plastic.  But a lot cheaper than pw's.


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## gsgary (Feb 13, 2014)

runnah said:


> What the stat? 9 out of 10 new business fail in the first year? This is why!
> 
> Anyways it always boggles the mind that people think they can start a business without even knowing how to do the thing they want to sell!!!



This one will fail in the first hour

Sent from my GT-I9100P using Tapatalk 2


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## GerryDavid (Feb 13, 2014)

gsgary said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> > What the stat? 9 out of 10 new business fail in the first year? This is why!
> ...




So you are saying when your starting out you have to go full time right away?


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## The_Traveler (Feb 13, 2014)

IF THEY WENT OUT OF BUSINESS, WHY WILL YOU SUCCEED?

and if you are intent on doing this, please keep me on your mailing list so when you go out of business, I can buy your equipment.


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## CCericola (Feb 13, 2014)

Ok. I will admit this. When I was working as a product designer I worked at the Picture People over the Christmas holiday to make extra spending money as all of our extra cash was going to buy our house. 

It was 2007. We used a 20D as the location had just switched from film (Mamiya 645) to digital. The lights were Photogenic. There was a main light, fill light and hair light. The main was a 60" octagon softbox, fill was a slightly smaller rectangle softbox, the hair light was a standard size hair light softbox strip. They were all Westcott. To trigger the lights we used radio triggers. I don't remember the brand or model. 

The lights were set daily to flat, boring lighting. They were adjusted so we could shoot at F8 at 1/250th. The fill and main were set at the same output and the hair light was at 1/4 of that. 

The camera stands were taken away along with the mamiyas. The camera was hand held and the lights were mounted on a rail system. The backgrounds are vinyl and I still remember the smell of the cleaner as they had to be washed every night. 

It sounds like you only want to emulate their shooting style not their business model. Their model is ok but will take a bigger investment than you have. They are not going out of business. Yes, they have downsized ( the one I worked at is gone) but there are still 6 all within 20 miles of each other here in NJ. They are in the malls and are always packed. 

It was an ok job. The best part was I didn't NEED the job so I pretty much did what I liked. The manager would try to talk to me and I would just stare and her and say "I don't care" I think I drove her crazy. Then I got a huge, unexpected bonus from my day job and I came in to give her 1 week notice. She gave me a hard time so I looked at her and said "fine! no notice! I'm leaving now! bye!" Then the next month they were closed. I like to think it was because of me as I had the highest sales . I know it's not true but it's fun to think that 

You want to shoot in that style, get 3 strobes, three soft boxes, a background and a camera. You don't NEED a radio trigger. You can use a sync chord. They usually come with the lights. Make sure the lights have a built in slave so when you trigger the main light with the sync chord it sets off the other two. 

Its not not rocket science. I think all the cookie cutter places use the same basic set up.


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## CCericola (Feb 13, 2014)

P.S. I still have my Picture People black golf shirt.


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## from_iowa (Feb 14, 2014)

CCericola said:


> Ok. I will admit this. When I was working as a product designer I worked at the Picture People over the Christmas holiday to make extra spending money as all of our extra cash was going to buy our house.
> 
> It was 2007. We used a 20D as the location had just switched from film (Mamiya 645) to digital. The lights were Photogenic. There was a main light, fill light and hair light. The main was a 60" octagon softbox, fill was a slightly smaller rectangle softbox, the hair light was a standard size hair light softbox strip. They were all Westcott. To trigger the lights we used radio triggers. I don't remember the brand or model.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the reply.You are exactly right, I wanted to understand their setup, not their business model and your reply has helped a lot thanks.
I went to a camera store today for the first time and told the owner I want something better than what the Picture People (40D with huge flash lights) are using and he set me up with the following: 
Canon Rebel T5i
 Tamron AF 18-270mm f/3.5-6.3 VC PZD All-In-One Zoom Lens for Canon DSLR, Model BOO8E Filter Size 062mm          
ProMaster VL-1144 LED Studio Light x2
and some background stuff.

You guys think this would be a solid setup for professional grade pictures?
The only thing that scares me are those lights. They seem small and cost $800 for 2 of them. I'm wondering if these 2 LED continuous lights can beat the Picture People in the "light" department ...


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## e.rose (Feb 14, 2014)

CCericola said:


> Ok. I will admit this. When I was working as a product designer I worked at the Picture People over the Christmas holiday to make extra spending money as all of our extra cash was going to buy our house.
> 
> It was 2007. We used a 20D as the location had just switched from film (Mamiya 645) to digital. The lights were Photogenic. There was a main light, fill light and hair light. The main was a 60" octagon softbox, fill was a slightly smaller rectangle softbox, the hair light was a standard size hair light softbox strip. They were all Westcott. To trigger the lights we used radio triggers. I don't remember the brand or model.
> 
> ...



Hey. I worked for Lifetouch for a bit. 

Although, I'm sorry to say I wasn't as ballsy as you were, because I *did* need the job at the time... and also... I may be a relentless smarta**, but I generally try to behave myself around children.


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## molested_cow (Feb 14, 2014)

You ever consider just renting the empty store out and put that rent income towards a photography class?


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## Overread (Feb 14, 2014)

from_iowa said:


> I went to a camera store today for the first time and told the owner I want something better than what the Picture People (40D with huge flash lights) are using and he set me up with the following:
> Canon Rebel T5i
> Tamron AF 18-270mm f/3.5-6.3 VC PZD All-In-One Zoom Lens for Canon DSLR, Model BOO8E Filter Size 062mm
> ProMaster VL-1144 LED Studio Light x2
> ...




Well the camera body is good enough, its rebel which means entry level, but in a studio condition with the right lens and lighting gear it should do well. The 18-270mm though is a bad choice. It's a superzoom covering a huge zoom range and as a result there are many compromises in its design along with its lower price point. The lenses I mentioned earlier would have been superior choices optically speaking. 

You can certainly learn with the 18-270mm and heck in a studio with the right light at a short focal length it should do decently well, but with the budget you stated and the overall desires you aired earlier its not what I would have chosen. 


The lights are anodd choice; continuous lighting is generally not ideal for stills photography and won't give out as much power (typically) than a flash light can. LED at least avoids the heat problem that regular continuous lighting offers; however I wonder if those will have the power to do studio work for stills photography. Experiment and find out because I honestly don't know and they are not cheap lights and so you've at least got decent over all quality. What you will want is umbrellas/softboxes to go with them to help diffuse the light.


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## astroNikon (Feb 14, 2014)

Here's a lovely thread to read about another newbie going through nearly the same scenario.  2 years later she's back and looks like she's taking nice professional photos compared to what I read before.  And she uses a Rebel.
http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...ed-my-photography-biz-need-c-c-please-15.html

I'm not a pro by anymeans, but I was curious why you purchased such a low end lens and continuous lighting considering all of the advice you got earlier and a stated budget of $6k.  You need to plan out that $6k in camera body, lenses, lights, modifiers, computer, editing software, printing requirements for in-house/external printing, booklets etc.  Listen to the pros above that have done it.  I'm not a pro but I'm probably well over $4k for a simple home studio type setup and most of my stuff I bought used (and I don't do any printing at all).


Might I add .. when I first started learning photography I knew nothing of how to interpret the technology terms.  And the first additional lens I bought was a 55-200 /4.5-6 which was, for what I wanted to do, complete junk.  It took me a long time to just learn the terminology to get the proper equipment - that excludes learning how to use it .. I'm still learning.


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## robbins.photo (Feb 14, 2014)

e.rose said:


> CCericola said:
> 
> 
> > Ok. I will admit this. When I was working as a product designer I worked at the Picture People over the Christmas holiday to make extra spending money as all of our extra cash was going to buy our house.
> ...



You?  A smart alek? Huh.  You know I've never noticed.  Lol

Sent from my LG-LG730 using Tapatalk


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## from_iowa (Feb 14, 2014)

Well I have not bought them yet, he said with everything I listed plus a copy of Lightroom 5 it would be around $2,500. I'm not sure im sold on the lighting, I couldn't find any real reviews for the ProMaster 1144, so I am not sure how its going to workout. The good thing is there is 15 day return policy so if it just doesn't have enough juice for still pictures I will take em back. And regarding the lens, he showed me many different ones but said this would be good because the single length lens have better quality but he said I would need a huge studio if I only had one size to do portraits and then maybe whole family pictures.


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## astroNikon (Feb 14, 2014)

single lens versus multiple primes ... there's a thread on that.  You stated the salesperson of a single zoom vs ONE prime ... which should be multiple primes.

here's an example thread of a single lens versus using multiple primes
http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...me-vs-zoom-28mm-50mm-85mm-vs-24-70-2-8-a.html


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## Overread (Feb 14, 2014)

Lighting wise I'd still strongly suggest going for a normal studio setup with flash light instead of the LED. LED might be "the future" but in my view its not ready yet - certainly if you're not prepared to pay a lot for high end systems. You're in a studio so a typical studio flash setup would give you the most power for the least cost. I can't recommend kits; but that is the path I would (and most photographers do) take. 

Lens wise you don't want the 18-270mm; yes it covers a lot of range and as a generalist lens its a good option; but its quality is not going to be there. If you're serious about this then a 24-70mm f2.8 is what you'd want in a typical studio zoom lens. Canon version is very expensive now so I'd look to Sigma for a good high quality lens. 
You can always start with that high end zoom and then branch out into primes as you get more experienced if you want. 
Remember the lens reflects and directly controls the light that reaches the sensor; if its poor grade glass going through a lot of compromises it will be lower quality then high end glass.

Camera body wise I'm still going to push for you to consider a second hand 5D original or perhaps a 5DMII if you can afford it. New fullframe are expensive (cheapest is the 6D for canon at present). I'd also not advise getting a rebel camera body - they ARE good bodies don't get my wrong; but you can outgrow them an they've some control features that are not as fluid nor easy as middle range bodies can offer. 
A 60D or 70D would be what I'd consider a newer budget option in body for a professional setup; ideally a 6D. If not consider that many retailers selling reconditioned and second hand bodies often offer warrenties by default for them and reconditioned bodies are as safe (if not safer) purchases than brand new. A 5D or 5DMII would be cheaper ways to fit into your budget whilst leaving good money for lighting, lenses and accessories (eg lighting modifications, software, props).


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## usayit (Feb 14, 2014)

(I haven't read through the entire thread)

Picture people place in my mall seems to do well.  They are a main competitor to Lifetouch studios found in various department stores as well as places such as FLASH!.   Our FLASH! digital studio experience was ok but they closed because they simply could make a dent of the pre-established Picture People studio.  The LifeTouch studio in JCP is surviving as it seems.   Baby's R Us studio also seems to survive but its not core to the stores' business.  They target middle to lower income general population that 1) Not necessarily people with discriminating taste in portraiture 2) Not necessarily interested in spending large on a traditional independent photographer 3) The convenience of documenting their kids as they grow.   Quick in and out portraits for life events Catholic confirmation, Graduation etc..   These studios are the "fast-food" of photo-studios.   I once didn't take them seriously but after becoming a father of 3, two of which are extremely active, fidgety, and suffer a lot of colic, I realize just how important it is to deliver easy access and convenience.  So a lot of "judgements" made against them here is pretty unfounded and unfair considering the target intent, demographic, and price point.

As for equipment, they do use decent equipment with a simple setup.   Large shoot through umbrella and fill close to the camera on a heavy support system. Nikon DSLRs (don't know the exact ones) with Tamron zooms.  Flashes system is triggered with what looks like PocketWizards.  Their staff are generally not photographically trained or knowledgable.   What they are trained in is the cookie-cutter process of producing photos.  A process that is tailored for speed, simplicity and consistent quality.  They actually tell you not to stray too far from the process.   They don't want you too.   What they look for in staff is the ability to provide a good one on one interaction experience with the customers... especially being comfortable, confident, and patient with the very young kids.  As for software, they use a package that manages the entire process in one single easy to follow process.   From retrieval/archival, to process, to printing, and on to point of sale.   I found it extremely interesting system considering I like photography and I am a software developer.

I would have to say that often the reason why some failed has a lot to do with other parts of the business.   Targeting the equipment they use is oversimplifying the situation.  If I were to guess, the primary reason for a business failure for these studios is either entrenched competition OR (and highly likely) the inability to bring in the right customer service oriented people to deliver the experience that would net a return customer base.

Oh yes... if you are wondering, I did my research.  During a long unemployment time period, I seriously considered working for these studios to bring in some sort of income.   My conclusion was these are not "photographic" jobs but rather jobs that are in the retail/service side.  I figure it would be fun even if the pay was substandard.... time behind the camera too.  I also don't mind interacting with customers.   Fortunately, a better opportunity arrived soon after and I didn't pursue it any further than my observations.


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## from_iowa (Feb 14, 2014)

Awesome! Thanks for the info. I think the best thing for me to do is to just go and have Picture People photoshoot and just write down all their equipment lol


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## Derrel (Feb 14, 2014)

I have not read every single post here, but usayit's post above has some GEMS in it.

You want electronic FLASH for the lighting. NO LED's, no quartz, no incandescent-but ALL FLASH lighting. Seriously. You. Want. Flash. Units.

More than the equipment, you need to understand how to maximize sales by posing people the right way, and by splitting family groups into smaller components, and also how to shoot for wall display. If a family of five comes in, man, wife, three kids, that's MW+3k. Man, wife, 2 kids + infant is MW+2k+i. That is a gold mine if you shoot it well, AND shoot it "right".

Man; wife; man + wife; wife + kids; man + kids; kids together; kids alone; dad+ the boys; mom + the girls; and so on.

Do you understand THAT side of the business? Do you have any idea of how family dynamics work in selling family portraiture? Do you realize how CRITICAL it is to get good photos of the MAN when his woman brings him in, dressed up and cleaned up?

If you do not understand how to shoot families and how to break down the session into sub-sets, and how to POSITION people, your work will not sell well. THere are a ton of industry practices that you probably have no idea about.


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## pgriz (Feb 14, 2014)

@ from_iowa:  the basic problem is that you don't know what you don't know.  This isn't a photography question, this is a business question.  Who's your customer?  What are they expecting to pay?  What are they expecting to get in return?  What's your profit margin?  The last isn't so simple - it's how much effort and cost you have to put in to get what "they" expect to get.  In other words, is your skill level equal to what needs to be delivered, in an efficient manner?  If not, it doesn't matter what the equipment is, you're not ready.  Let's move on.  Assuming you now have the skills and the equipment, how many sessions do you need to book to break even?  How are you going to get these people to line up at the door?  Personally, I'd spend some time doing basic business research - what's the market, who are the primary competitors, what can you offer that they can't, what kind of numbers do you need to have to make this work?  If, after doing this research you believe that there's a good business case, THEN look into the photography stuff.

On the other hand, if this was going to be a hobby, then by all means, spend your money and get happy making shutter-clicks.


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## CCericola (Feb 14, 2014)

No, no, no. No continuous lights!!! Get strobes. There is the StudioMax brand that's cheap. I had 3 StudioMax II lights I bought back in 2001 and they still work to this day. B&H also has the Impact brand. 

Now with strobes you need to shoot manual and either use a light meter to meter the lights or experiment until it looks good on the view screen. Light meters save time.


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## BobSaget (Feb 14, 2014)

Wait, "Picture People" is a company? That just sounds like what us southerners would call a photographer.  "Hey Bill, what do you call dem people that make pictures?" Bill- "Picture people, stupid."


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## usayit (Feb 14, 2014)

from_iowa said:


> Awesome! Thanks for the info. I think the best thing for me to do is to just go and have Picture People photoshoot and just write down all their equipment lol



The one in our mall has a couple of their studios facing the store front.. whenever I see a family shoot happening in one of those studios, i stop and observe (my wife thinks I'm "wishing" for that job... far from it.. lol ).   More than just the equipment but how they interact and pose the family.   On rare occasions, you get to observe someone who obviously has experience with very young children and somehow figures out how to motivate them to pose.  I like to watch those... coming from being a newish father perspective.   Yeh... the photographer may just be going through a preset, predetermined choreography of photos but there is enough content there for a beginner to learn "some".   All what Derrel describes is absolutely necessary for a successful studio photographer.  

One photographer at FLASH digital quickly identified my son was just not going to cooperate.   She mentioned that the studio wasn't busy and that we should simply go walk around the mall, buy a new toy, eat some snacks, and return an hour later.  She also Identified me as a photographer because of how I was examining the equipment and she even noticed that I was hiding my camera within a discreet non-camera-camera-bag.   So when we returned, my son was a bit better (full stomach, opened a new toy) and mentioned that "photographic father"s are rarely in family photos.  So she took a few photos of me playing with my son and his new toy...  not too bad!   The photos weren't world class but they were good enough for the family to enjoy but what made the experience was that the person knew how to deal with a child.   A heck of a lot easier than when we tried at home when all he wanted to do was go back to his play.


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## usayit (Feb 14, 2014)

BobSaget said:


> Wait, "Picture People" is a company? That just sounds like what us southerners would call a photographer.  "Hey Bill, what do you call dem people that make pictures?" Bill- "Picture people, stupid."



Yup.   There is a large (practically a monopoly) photo company called Lifetouch inc.  They pretty much have most of the school districts in their pocket as well as some those quick in and out studios embedded within stores.  School related events including picture day, sports, and graduation all have Lifetouch involved.   Even some churches too.  There are a couple of other studios that have that compete.   One is called "Picture People" which focus on simple family portraiture.  Seems their style is pretty basic.... white or black background a few props.   Another is Glamour Shots which brings costumes, props, and makeup etc  into the mix as a value proposition.   Lifetouch has a hold on photography done within school settings.

When I was entertaining the idea of working at one of these places, the life of a photographer going from school to school seemed to be the least satisfying.   Ug!    Don't think I want to do that....   at least in these mall studios, the parents are around.


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## tirediron (Feb 14, 2014)

BobSaget said:


> Wait, "Picture People" is a company? That just sounds like what us southerners would call a photographer. "Hey Bill, what do you call dem people that make pictures?" Bill- "*Pichur* people, stupid."


FTFY


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## Nevermore1 (Feb 14, 2014)

usayit said:


> from_iowa said:
> 
> 
> > Awesome! Thanks for the info. I think the best thing for me to do is to just go and have Picture People photoshoot and just write down all their equipment lol
> ...



Kids will behave differently when a stranger is taking their photo!  I have a very hard time getting photos of my kids myself but once I take them to Portrait Innovations (same idea as The Picture People but I like therm better as I have always felt rushed at TPP) they start cooperating much better.  The pictures aren't the greatest but they are better than what I can get at home.


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## CCericola (Feb 14, 2014)

Working there for a month taught me a few things. People will buy anything if you show it to them in person. Because of them I do all my sales in person with paper proofs. And the online sales after the fact are just a bit of gravy. 

And if you give things away, no one will buy. They used to do the free 8x10 and no sitting fee to get you in the door and I could always tell who was there for the free 8x10 and nothing else.


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## e.rose (Feb 14, 2014)

CCericola said:


> Working there for a month taught me a few things. People will buy anything if you show it to them in person. Because of them I do all my sales in person with paper proofs. And the online sales after the fact are just a bit of gravy.
> 
> And if you give things away, no one will buy. They used to do the free 8x10 and no sitting fee to get you in the door and I could always tell who was there for the free 8x10 and nothing else.



I've been thinking about doing paper proofs.

Right now I do in-person sales, but I present to them with Lightroom where they can flag their favorites.

I'm in the middle of designing two sample albums, but I still sometimes wonder if doing paper proofs would reinforce the desire for tangible product.

I don't advertise high resolution images, and all that's on my product list are tangible products... and I give them a physical welcome packet, not an e-mail PDF... but... I kind of just like the idea of paper proofs. 

How do you handle it?


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## vintagesnaps (Feb 14, 2014)

If you have no photography experience I think it would be better to rent equipment and try it out first. 

This reminds me of TV shows that rescue bars, go in and redecorate restaurants, write up new menus and retrain staff etc. Some of the owners have sunk their entire life savings and retirement into it and are on the verge of losing it all... sometimes it's due to the economy etc. but other times they never even worked in a restaurant to have a clue how to run one. 

You aren't yet informed and knowledgeable enough about photography to know if the equipment suggested by the store would work for this, and they seem to be suggesting entry level more than pro equipment (which might be doing you a favor; they'd probably like to have the sale but may realize you're totally new to this so didn't recommend higher end more costly equipment). 

Depends on what's in your area, but you might not only be competing with similar companies that do this at the shopping centers but any local portrait photographers, and the people with cameras who underprice and list themselves on facebook and craigslist. Seems like this needs more thought and research; for some business info. for photographers try looking at American Society of Media Photographers .

edit - Christina at least you can say you got the T shirt! Those places are what they are, the type of thing that's been around forever and meets an economical need I guess.  

e.rose I think you're so much fun on here because when you have to behave you save it up all day for here! LOL


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## GerryDavid (Feb 14, 2014)

CCericola said:


> Working there for a month taught me a few things. People will buy anything if you show it to them in person. Because of them I do all my sales in person with paper proofs. And the online sales after the fact are just a bit of gravy.
> 
> And if you give things away, no one will buy. They used to do the free 8x10 and no sitting fee to get you in the door and I could always tell who was there for the free 8x10 and nothing else.



What do you find are the benefits of paper proofs over showing the pictures in LR?


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## from_iowa (Feb 15, 2014)

What do you think if I get the Rebel t5i with the canon 50 mm f1.4, you think this is a good professional setup? The more I'm reading it seems 50 mm is the gold standard for professional photography.


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## robbins.photo (Feb 15, 2014)

from_iowa said:


> What do you think if I get the Rebel t5i with the canon 50 mm f1.4, you think this is a good professional setup? The more I'm reading it seems 50 mm is the gold standard for professional photography.



Greetings again Iowa.  Truth be told the person taking the pictures has a lot more impact on how professional the end result is than the camera itself.  Things like composition, lighting, poses, editing, etc will have a lot more effect on how good the end result will be than the camera itself.  You can get professional images from the most basic DSLR and kit lens, and you can get really horrible snap shots from the top of the line most expensive gear in the world depending on who's behind the camera.   Can a T5i with a 50 mm lens deliver professional results?  You bet.  But the most important part of that equation is the photographer, not the gear.


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## Overread (Feb 15, 2014)

The only problem with a rebel is its marketed heavily to the amateur market. As a result there's a good chance the person your taking a photo of might well be aware that a rebel is entry level and heck they might even own one. Whilst its the photographer not the equipment part of running a business is the presentation of the business itself. Looking professional is as much a part as being professional.

With good lighting and a good lens (the 50mm f1.4 is a good lens) the Rebel t5i will certainly deliver some great shots provided you operate the equipment and post the subject and compose correctly. Company image is the only concern


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## GerryDavid (Feb 15, 2014)

from_iowa said:


> What do you think if I get the Rebel t5i with the canon 50 mm f1.4, you think this is a good professional setup? The more I'm reading it seems 50 mm is the gold standard for professional photography.



I would get a Canon T2i before the T5i, canon hasnt really improved the rebel cameras, the image quality and noise are about the same.  The T3i added a tilt shift lcd screen which is good for live preview but thats not good for taking pictures because there is a huge delay between pushing the button and taking the picture.  the viewfinder is still best.  the t4i added more video options, and the t5i has added video effects.  None of which is that important for studio use.  So you can save half the money there.

Ive been using the T2i in studio and outside for years and love it.  But my new fav is the 6D which I got last fall.  Its on sale for $1400 now and the high iso performance is awesome for outside towards sunset.  

Dont forget a backup camera, it will save you one day.

I also got the 50mm F1.4 last fall, with my stobes I never go below F4.5 in studio unless I switch over to the ring light, and then I try to stick around F3.5 or higher unless I am going for a certain effect.  the 1.4 and so is great outside though.  I had problems with the 50mm 1.8 with focusing, but the 50mm 1.4 fixed that, plus I love how images look at 1.4 when the kid/subject is closer to the camera.  But for closeups of girls you may want something longer in the 85 or 130 range.  Some people can do great beuaty work with a 35 or 50 but its tricky, you have to use the distortion in your favor.

You had a budget of $6k, if you are only going to get one lens I would recommend the 24-70 F2.8 for studio use.  You will find the range great for kids as they move around.  If its to much money you can get a sigma one, they have really stepped up their quality.


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## GerryDavid (Feb 15, 2014)

Overread said:


> The only problem with a rebel is its marketed heavily to the amateur market. As a result there's a good chance the person your taking a photo of might well be aware that a rebel is entry level and heck they might even own one. Whilst its the photographer not the equipment part of running a business is the presentation of the business itself. Looking professional is as much a part as being professional.
> 
> With good lighting and a good lens (the 50mm f1.4 is a good lens) the Rebel t5i will certainly deliver some great shots provided you operate the equipment and post the subject and compose correctly. Company image is the only concern



Regardless of what camera you have, there may always be someone with a better camera than you around or in the pictures.  Its not uncommon for uncle bob to have a 5D or 1D camera   Slapping on a battery grip and a 24-70 or 70-200 does help make the rebel look more impressive.  

But I've been using a T2i in studio for 3 years and its never been a problem.


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## from_iowa (Feb 15, 2014)

Thanks alot for the information guys, I'm really learning alot! Well the thing is, I'm marketing towards the same people that would go to Picture People, and they use 20D and 40D cameras, so I was thinking that the t5i would be better than the 40D already anyways. If the t5i really isn't a step up in quality from the previous rebels, what about a Nikon 5200, would this be a better choice than the rebel for quality? Also, I'm doing alot of reading and people are saying that the best quality of picture comes from prime lenses and I should avoid zoom lens if I want studio work.


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## Derrel (Feb 15, 2014)

Anybody who would tell you that you want, let alone "need" prime lenses for a high-volume studio, has utterly *no idea* what he's talking about. You most definitely want a ZOOM lens. Modern zoom lenses are fine, and since you'd be standardized on ONE, single f/stop where zooms and primes are basically equal in performance, the idea of needing a prime lens or three is stupid. I have shot studio family portraiture at multiple studios, and with a small-format camera, you WANT to have a zoom lens. At f/8 or f/9 or f/10 or f/11, which is where you'll be shooting, almost ANY modern zoom lens (made since 1990) is perfectly fine. You need the ability to ZOOM IN to a telephoto setting and move the camera back about 20 feet, so you can shoot your largest groups on a 12 foot-wide background. If you're closer than that, with a shorter focal length lens, the angle of view BEHIND the subjects will be too wide, and you will shoot wider than the background!! This is utter, BASIC studio photography knowledge. You do not want to be changing lenses multiple times during each set, because by the end of the day, the camera sensor would be filthy, not to mention the risk of dropped, misplaced, and stolen lenses.


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## robbins.photo (Feb 15, 2014)

from_iowa said:


> Thanks alot for the information guys, I'm really learning alot! Well the thing is, I'm marketing towards the same people that would go to Picture People, and they use 20D and 40D cameras, so I was thinking that the t5i would be better than the 40D already anyways. If the t5i really isn't a step up in quality from the previous rebels, what about a Nikon 5200, would this be a better choice than the rebel for quality? Also, I'm doing alot of reading and people are saying that the best quality of picture comes from prime lenses and I should avoid zoom lens if I want studio work.



For still image quality?  Yes, the D5200 would be better in that regard.  As to prime vrs zoom, just depends really.  Both have advantages and disadvantages.


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## GerryDavid (Feb 15, 2014)

from_iowa said:


> I'm marketing towards the same people that would go to Picture People, and they use 20D and 40D cameras



You dont want the picture people/walmart/sears portrait studio crowd.  They want cheap prices so you have to work in volume, and its hard to get that many customers.  Plus you will want to process the pictures and it takes longer to process them than it did to shoot them.  So 8 hours infront of the camera means more than 8 hours behind the computer.  Plus dont forget you will be on the phone/computer arranging appointments, and then marketing, planning, creating materials, etc.

Here are a few question for you:

A - How many clients in a year do you think you can handle?   How many portraits can you do in a day assuming each one is half an hour long, sales is half an hour, and processing will be an hour.
B - What is the cost of living in your area and what is your goal income to cover your cost of living - rent/morgage - insurance - food - etc
C - What is your cost of running a business each year/month? - liability insurance, equipment insurance, camera every 2 or 3 years, new lens every year, software, computer every 2 years, studio rent, car payment, studio equipment every year, marketing/advertising, website hosting, etc
D - What is the session expenses? - gas to and from the studio or location, package content expenses, etc  Figuring out what to include in your packages is challenging.  You have to keep them interested, keep your expenses down and keep track of how long it takes you to process/design everything.  If it takes you 8 hours but your only charging enough to cover 2 hours, your in trouble.

average needed per portrait = [ ( B + C ) / A ] + D

Doing the math for me it comes out to $450 a portrait for 120 a year.  thats 3 per week for 40 weeks, and that is considered high.  So I need to average $450 to meet that goal.

I wish I had that formula 8 years ago when I was starting out, it took me ages to figure out my "cost of doing business", which is what that forumula gives you.  Every studio has different costs of living and expenses so dont base your prices on someone else.


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## astroNikon (Feb 15, 2014)

from_iowa said:


> Also, I'm doing alot of reading and people are saying that the best quality of picture comes from prime lenses and I should avoid zoom lens if I want studio work.



Read more.
There are different quality zoom lenses.

For instance .. this beginner Nikon zoom lens
Nikon 55-200mm f/4-5.6G ED-IF AF-S DX VR Lens - Nikon USA Warranty 2166

to this professional Nikon zoom lens
Nikon 70-200mm f/2.8G AF-S VR II Nikkor ED-IF Lens - Nikon USA Warranty 2185

of course there a price difference too .. from $250 to $2400 

is there a quality difference between the two .. YES


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## GerryDavid (Feb 15, 2014)

If you go canon *not promoting canon over nikon, I just know canon stuff* you can buy a used canon 24-70 F2.8L mI for about $1200 or so.  The difference between the mI and mII is the mI can focus closer *good for baby details like hands, feet, etc* and the mII seems to have better color and slightly sharper, but you can adjust the color in post to get the same thing, and the mII costs a fair bit more especially new.

Ive had luck buying a lens used off of amazon used, I got my 135mm F2L for $850 instead of the $1100 new.  but you do risk getting a lemon.  I think amazon has some buyer protection but not 100% sure on that.


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## orljustin (Feb 16, 2014)

I find this infatuation with duplicating the Picture People business very bizarre.  Why don't you just buy a franchise or something, since you seem so intent in duplicating what they do.  Or go work for them for a few months - then you can walk out with at least a modicum of knowledge about how to do it.  It's like asking what frying pans they use at The French Laundry, or what brand if wrenches they use at a mechanic, and, btw, how does the rest of that business stuff work?


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