# I thought about switching to Canon...



## nerwin (Dec 22, 2016)

Last night I was chatting with a friend of mine about cameras and he mentioned he's really close to switching to Canon. I kind have been thinking about it a little bit myself because Canon has some lenses that I like that Nikon doesn't have or is as good but really that's it. Since my friend shoots more video, I can understand why he'd want to switch to Canon, Nikon really isn't known for amazing video or video features. I get it.

So I started thinking about what would exactly would I gain from switching to Canon. Nothing besides a headache.

*1.* I'd have to sell off my current Nikon equipment and all that money I invested in this system, I won't get much back. So it would cost more out of pocket to switch.

*2.* I'd have to relearn the camera bodies, button placements and menu systems. Okay okay ok..that is more of a cosmetic issue and after a while I'd be fine with it.

*3.* Image quality? Canon and Nikon have both equally good image quality. Perhaps Nikon having a slight edge in the dynamic range and low light performance areas but it's not like a night/day difference.

*4.* Auto Focus - Okay, this is subjective honestly. Some have said Canon has faster and more accurate autofocus systems whereas some also say the same about Nikon. So which manufacture has better autofocus systems? I don't know. It really seems to depend on the user and what they are shooting.

*5. *Better white and color? Yes..both Canon and Nikon have slightly different colors and skin tones but if you shoot RAW, can't you like adjust this in post? 

So besides a headache, what would I gain? Maybe access to a couple unique Canon lenses and maybe perhaps better autofocus? Built in GPS and WiFi that I'd never use? Is it really worth it to switch to Canon just because of that?

At this point in camera technology, what is the point in switching manufactures to gain little to nothing?

The only thing I can see that would be beneficial of switching is that it's a change, it's something different and could spark an interest in something. It's like how some people drive Chevy their whole life switch to Ford just because it's different and end up liking it after all.

It really is a tough decision at this point.


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## goooner (Dec 22, 2016)

I made the switch to Nikon earlier this year, but I might have stayed with Canon if the 80D came out 6 months earlier. I had a 450D (XSi), and the jump to my D7200 was amazing. I'm very happy with my switch, and have invested heavily in Nikon glass now. I still have a 100mm/2.8 Macro Canon lens I'm trying to sell, will then start looking for an equivalent Nikon lens. 

At the moment Nikon has the best crop body around (D500), canon really does not have anything close imo. I also think the entry level FF bodies offer more for Nikon shooters, not that I've used any of the FF bodies yet.


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## pixmedic (Dec 22, 2016)

same old song and dance...

you dont really gain much of anything switching between nikon and canon. 
ones better here, ones better there...
ones got the best camera for this, ones got the best camera for that...
and every 6 months they flip flop when they release their new bodies and lenses.
not to mention the hit your going to take selling equipment and buying new stuff, and wanting to
switch back when nikon releases a newer/better camera than the canon you bought...
and then back to canon less than a year after THAT..
it never ends. 

if you have money to where none of this matters...go for it.


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## astroNikon (Dec 22, 2016)

I sold everything and bought an iPhone 7S.  


okay, not really.


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## nerwin (Dec 22, 2016)

I'm going to be honest, I'm not particularly happy with the autofocus performance of the D610, there numerous occasions where the camera just struggles but it is using the autofocus system from the D7000, it's getting out of date which is one of the reasons I'm exploring different options right now. Does Canon actually have better autofocus, especially in low light? Than say the D750? 

I know there is most likely an update coming to the D750 which is making me interested and making it a super hard decision to switch to a different manufacture. But there really isn't any info on this D750 update yet and when it is due out.


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## kap55 (Dec 22, 2016)

Switching systems in a hope that _"...it's something different and could spark an interest in something"_ will eventually leave you bankrupt.


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## nerwin (Dec 22, 2016)

kap55 said:


> Switching systems in a hope that _"...it's something different and could spark an interest in something"_ will eventually leave you bankrupt.



I may be stupid, but I'm not that stupid.

I have valid reasons to switch, but that would just be a benefit of switching not a reason to switch. Maybe the car analogy was a bad idea. lol


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## goooner (Dec 22, 2016)

nerwin said:


> I'm going to be honest, I'm not particularly happy with the autofocus performance of the D610, there numerous occasions where the camera just struggles but it is using the autofocus system from the D7000, it's getting out of date which is one of the reasons I'm exploring different options right now. Does Canon actually have better autofocus, especially in low light? Than say the D750?
> 
> I know there is most likely an update coming to the D750 which is making me interested and making it a super hard decision to switch to a different manufacture. But there really isn't any info on this D750 update yet and when it is due out.


Like I said I have no experience with FF, but is the 6D better at focussing than the D610? From what I've heard, it is not, while the the D610 (at least to my knowledge), has better low light and DR than the 6D. 

You have to compare apples with apples. I don't think think Canon makes a D750 equivalent, I guess the D800 would be compared to the 5D's.


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## robbins.photo (Dec 22, 2016)

Ok, so if the problem is the AF system, then I'd recommend you reexamine how your using the AF system.

I shoot the D600 - and I rarely if ever have any issues with the AF system.  The reason for that, I take control of the AF myself.  Instead of giving the camera every focal point imaginable to choose from and relying on the tiny onboard computer to determine the best point of focus, I reduce the focus points to 1 and chose the one I want myself.  If I'm in challenging lighting conditions or shooting stuff that's moving faster, I'll go to 9.  Sometimes I might go higher, but only if I were tracking an erratically moving target against a relatively clear background, such as say a fast moving bird in flight against a blue sky.

I have shot a couple of Canon's here and there, I wouldn't say their AF system is really any better or worse than Nikon - about the same really if your intention is to allow the camera to pick the point of focus.

As to lenses, about the only advantage there on the Canon side would be that they have more options available in the 400mm range, and that's not really a huge advantage for most.  

So unless you were going to be doing video production and making money from it, I just don't see a switchover to be all that beneficial.  Much like I wouldn't advise most Canon owners to dump all their gear and switch over to Nikon.  It's a lot of time, hassle and expense and frankly the benefits  either way are negligible.


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## astroNikon (Dec 22, 2016)

nerwin said:


> I'm going to be honest, I'm not particularly happy with the autofocus performance of the D610, there numerous occasions where the camera just struggles but it is using the autofocus system from the D7000, it's getting out of date which is one of the reasons I'm exploring different options right now. Does Canon actually have better autofocus, especially in low light? Than say the D750?
> 
> I know there is most likely an update coming to the D750 which is making me interested and making it a super hard decision to switch to a different manufacture. But there really isn't any info on this D750 update yet and when it is due out.


What specifically are the issues you are having?

The Multicam 4800 (FX version) is found in the FX:  Df, D6x0
4800DX (DX version) in: D5500 to d5200, d7000.

The Df and D600 are some nice low light cameras.  I had no problems with mine in low light but I also knew it had it's limits for Super Low Light AF.
Are you using the illuminator in super low light ?

I initially had better success with the AF system in the D600 vs the D750.  But I learned how to use the D750 better and it does have about a stop better performance.  I also prefer the 39pt AF system vs the 51pt which are just squished more together IMHO but I'm learning how to live with it and make it perform better.

FYI, the d600 killed the d7000 in low light when I ran my tests while I had both cameras.  A good 2 stops better.

FYI, the focusing systems are not exactly the same. The one's in the FX bodies allow support to f/8, where as the DX ones I think only to f/5.6.  I assume other tweaks too.

Now I'm trying to learn the D500 v D750 ...


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## pixmedic (Dec 22, 2016)

robbins.photo said:


> Ok, so if the problem is the AF system, then I'd recommend you reexamine how your using the AF system.
> 
> I shoot the D600 - and I rarely if ever have any issues with the AF system.  The reason for that, I take control of the AF myself.  Instead of giving the camera every focal point imaginable to choose from and relying on the tiny onboard computer to determine the best point of focus, I reduce the focus points to 1 and chose the one I want myself.  If I'm in challenging lighting conditions or shooting stuff that's moving faster, I'll go to 9.  Sometimes I might go higher, but only if I were tracking an erratically moving target against a relatively clear background, such as say a fast moving bird in flight against a blue sky.
> 
> ...



agreed. 
i had two D600's and never had issues with them focusing. 

@nerwin  you have a D610 now, and some nice lenses. 
what were you thinking of switching to if you DID go canon? and what lenses were you looking at in canon mount that are lacking in nikon?


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## nerwin (Dec 22, 2016)

robbins.photo said:


> Ok, so if the problem is the AF system, then I'd recommend you reexamine how your using the AF system.
> 
> I shoot the D600 - and I rarely if ever have any issues with the AF system.  The reason for that, I take control of the AF myself.  Instead of giving the camera every focal point imaginable to choose from and relying on the tiny onboard computer to determine the best point of focus, I reduce the focus points to 1 and chose the one I want myself.  If I'm in challenging lighting conditions or shooting stuff that's moving faster, I'll go to 9.  Sometimes I might go higher, but only if I were tracking an erratically moving target against a relatively clear background, such as say a fast moving bird in flight against a blue sky.
> 
> ...



I use single point AF as well. 

The issue arises when the light is low. When there is plenty of light, I don't have any problems. I'm just getting a little tired of the camera taking forever or seems to anyways to find focus even when using single point AF, I often have to switch to manual to achieve focus and when its dark (not pitch black lol) its kind of hard to exactly see what I'm focusing on. From my understand the D750 does a lot better at focusing in low light than the D610.


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## Gary A. (Dec 22, 2016)

The grass is greener.

But switching is okay, it sorta reinvigorates the passion, stirs up the coals.  But you're going in realizing that there isn't anything significantly difference ... so your eyes are open.  If you want to try something significant different ... pick up a X100T.  The fixed lens will either make you or break you.  Personally, I think you'll appreciate the challenge of the fixed lens and you'll love the Fuji files.  (But make it an augmentation to your existing system.)


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## coastalconn (Dec 22, 2016)

You might remember I made the mistake of switching to Canon in the Spring of 2015.  If you like slightly OOF, noisy images with good color than Canon may be a good choice for you.  I do really miss the 200 f2.8 prime though.. AFAIK the D610 is better than the 6d. The d750 will eat if for breakfast.  To be fair, the sensor in the 80d was pretty good, but the camera was a little laggy.


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## robbins.photo (Dec 22, 2016)

nerwin said:


> robbins.photo said:
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> > Ok, so if the problem is the AF system, then I'd recommend you reexamine how your using the AF system.
> ...



If the camera is struggling to focus in lower light, it means there isn't enough contrast provided by your focal point.  Expand to 9 point or move your point of focus slightly to find a spot of high enough contrast to allow the camera to focus properly.

Canon or Nikon wouldn't make any difference there.


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## nerwin (Dec 22, 2016)

pixmedic said:


> @nerwin you have a D610 now, and some nice lenses.
> what were you thinking of switching to if you DID go canon? and what lenses were you looking at in canon mount that are lacking in nikon?



Oh boy, I really dunno. The only camera I see that is equivalent is the 6D and Canon maybe replacing that line with a full frame mirrorless, so that could be interesting.

For lenses, probably the 24-105, 16-35 2.8, 40 2.8 & 50 1.4, 100 2.8L and not sure about telephoto.  I honestly don't know much about Canon lenses but these are few that have interest in that I find to better than Nikon's equivalents. But I don't know.

Can't forget about Canon's 28 1.8. Nikon has one yes, but it's quite large while Canon's is compact and that seems to be the trend. Nikon lenses seem to be oversized whereas Canon's counterparts are more compact and I'm not sure why that is.

At this point, I don't even know what I'm saying anymore. I feel dirty. lol


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## nerwin (Dec 22, 2016)

robbins.photo said:


> nerwin said:
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How would 9 point make a difference when using single point?


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## robbins.photo (Dec 22, 2016)

nerwin said:


> How would 9 point make a difference when using single point?



If you increase the number of points the camera has to choose from, from 1 to 9, then if any of those 9 points have high enough contrast the camera will pick that as it's point of focus and the shutter will fire.  If you are using only one in very low light, then if your point of focus doesn't have enough contrast the camera's AF system won't be able to lock.  So by increasing to 9 you will normally avoid this problem completely.  If you prefer to stick with just one then if the AF won't lock, move your focal point slightly until you get it onto an area with high enough contrast.


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## nerwin (Dec 22, 2016)

robbins.photo said:


> nerwin said:
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Wouldn't that mean I have to be to be in AF-C though?


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## robbins.photo (Dec 22, 2016)

nerwin said:


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Yes, AF-C with either 9 points or 1 point selected.


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## astroNikon (Dec 22, 2016)

you could also try
turning ON your AF Assist Illuminator.  Unless the subject is far away.


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## nerwin (Dec 22, 2016)

robbins.photo said:


> nerwin said:
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I guess I'm a little confused of the AF-C with 9 points. So I can change the focus point anywhere I want like I can in single point AF-S but if the camera can't find focus, it will automatically use one of the 9 focus around it to find focus automatically? 

I'm so use to using AF-S and hearing the beep because I know I locked focus, It will be really hard to adjust haha. But I'm willing to try it and see if it helps.


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## nerwin (Dec 22, 2016)

astroNikon said:


> you could also try
> turning ON your AF Assist Illuminator.  Unless the subject is far away.



That is true. I have is disabled because it always turned on when I didn't need it. Also, the lenses block it most of the time anyways. Just seemed like a gimmick to me. I mean Canon doesn't even have one...I think anyways.


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## pixmedic (Dec 22, 2016)

nerwin said:


> astroNikon said:
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turned off?!?
damn son...AF assist beam works fantastic in lower light!
almost as good as using a flash's AF assist grid.


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## nerwin (Dec 22, 2016)

pixmedic said:


> nerwin said:
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When the lens or lens hood blocks the light, what's the difference if it's on or off? 

Also, if I use AF-C 9 point, then it's disabled anyways.


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## pixmedic (Dec 22, 2016)

nerwin said:


> pixmedic said:
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do you always use the same lens?
in low light, if im not using a flash, ill throw on my radio trigger. even with no flash to trigger it will still use the IR AF assist grid.

it sounds like your already convinced that canon will be a better system for you...
just go do it and stop worrying about random online peoples opinions on it.


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## nerwin (Dec 22, 2016)

pixmedic said:


> nerwin said:
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No I don't always use the same lens. The only lens that doesn't block the AF lamp is the 50 1.8G. Everything else does. The Tamron 28-75 is narrow enough where it does illuminate the center of the focus points but everything to the left is left in the dark. 

I certainly am not convinced yet.


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## robbins.photo (Dec 22, 2016)

nerwin said:


> I guess I'm a little confused of the AF-C with 9 points. So I can change the focus point anywhere I want like I can in single point AF-S but if the camera can't find focus, it will automatically use one of the 9 focus around it to find focus automatically?
> 
> I'm so use to using AF-S and hearing the beep because I know I locked focus, It will be really hard to adjust haha. But I'm willing to try it and see if it helps.



Your camera will pick the focus point based on a sufficient level of contrast as the focal point to use based on how many points you give it to select from.  By limiting those number of points to 1 or 9 then the camera will be forced to pick a focus point that you want, or one very close to it.  In lower light situations going to 9 will usually give the camera at least one point that has enough contrast that it can lock focus and fire.

You can move this grouping of focus points in AF-C mode if you wish, to focus on pretty much anything you want in the frame.

You don't need the beep.  In AF-C when the camera locks focus and assuming you have the shutter fully depressed, the shutter fires.


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## astroNikon (Dec 22, 2016)

nerwin said:


> astroNikon said:
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Actually there were plenty of low light videos out there comparing a Nikon to Canon.  The Canon won in AF low light until you use the illuminator (which is a small flashlight).

How many times have ppl mentioned to use a flashlight to get AF?
Nikon has one built-in.
Put a SU800 or flash on top and use the IR AF grid - or radio trigger as Pixmedic states.  
Take your lens hood off.
If you are too close, then these solutions won't work.

here's a link.  But that guy did videos on the subject.
Canon 6D vs 5Diii vs 5Dii vs Nikon D600 - Low Light Focus Speed Comparison - Michael Andrew Photography Blog


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## nerwin (Dec 22, 2016)

astroNikon said:


> nerwin said:
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That's pretty interesting really. Like he says in the article, the AF lamp may not be appropriate for every place though. There is a time and place for it but not all the time. 

I loved using the IR AF grid of the SB-700, it was fantastic. Maybe I should just buy one again. 



robbins.photo said:


> nerwin said:
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> > I guess I'm a little confused of the AF-C with 9 points. So I can change the focus point anywhere I want like I can in single point AF-S but if the camera can't find focus, it will automatically use one of the 9 focus around it to find focus automatically?
> ...



The thing I don't like about AF-C is the fact I can't focus on what I want and then recompose like I do when using AF-S. That's how I always shoot and maybe that is wrong. I'll have to get really used to moving the AF point around a lot I guess.


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## astroNikon (Dec 22, 2016)

nerwin said:


> The thing I don't like about AF-C is the fact I can't focus on what I want and then recompose like I do when using AF-S. That's how I always shoot and maybe that is wrong. I'll have to get really used to moving the AF point around a lot I guess.


Use your AF-L/AE-L button on the back.  As long as you hold it down it will do a Focus Lock, then you can hit the release.  Focus and Recompose.  No problem.

I use it to do a focus lock in sports when someone crosses the AF area in front of the subject.  I'm always using it.


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## nerwin (Dec 22, 2016)

astroNikon said:


> nerwin said:
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> > The thing I don't like about AF-C is the fact I can't focus on what I want and then recompose like I do when using AF-S. That's how I always shoot and maybe that is wrong. I'll have to get really used to moving the AF point around a lot I guess.
> ...



Oh duh. Wow how did I forget that. I'm going a little crazy I guess haha. (I'm blaming it on the holidays)


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## robbins.photo (Dec 22, 2016)

nerwin said:


> The thing I don't like about AF-C is the fact I can't focus on what I want and then recompose like I do when using AF-S. That's how I always shoot and maybe that is wrong. I'll have to get really used to moving the AF point around a lot I guess.



Yes you can.  Press the shutter halfway down, recompose, shoot.  The only caveat being that if you don't let off the shutter button the second frame you shoot will cause the camera to refocus on wherever the AF point is at the moment.  Not a big deal really, since in AF-S you were only planning on one frame anyway.  So you get an extra frame you have to delete.  

You can use the selector to change where the AF points are in the frame and shoot continuous with your desired focus point, or you can do what I do and leave it in the center and shoot wide enough that you can recompose later in post.

I prefer the last method by far, gives me a whole lot more to work with in post and allows me to decide then on best composition.  

But again, switching to another camera or even another brand won't fix this issue.


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## nerwin (Dec 22, 2016)

robbins.photo said:


> nerwin said:
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> > The thing I don't like about AF-C is the fact I can't focus on what I want and then recompose like I do when using AF-S. That's how I always shoot and maybe that is wrong. I'll have to get really used to moving the AF point around a lot I guess.
> ...



Or I can just use the AE-L/AF-L button like @astroNikon said haha.


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## robbins.photo (Dec 22, 2016)

nerwin said:


> Or I can just use the AE-L/AF-L button like @astroNikon said haha.



Lots of methods available to all accomplish the same goal.


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## pixmedic (Dec 22, 2016)

have you considered switching to something more hip...like Fuji?


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## nerwin (Dec 22, 2016)

pixmedic said:


> have you considered switching to something more hip...like Fuji?



Sure, but it's not for me.


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## nerwin (Dec 22, 2016)

pixmedic said:


> have you considered switching to something more hip...like Fuji?



Not that I have anything against Fuji, I think their cameras are great. If I did a lot of travel and street photography, I'd use Fuji for sure. But for what I do, DSLR is just better for me.


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## nerwin (Dec 22, 2016)

Gary A. said:


> The grass is greener.
> 
> But switching is okay, it sorta reinvigorates the passion, stirs up the coals.  But you're going in realizing that there isn't anything significantly difference ... so your eyes are open.  If you want to try something significant different ... pick up a X100T.  The fixed lens will either make you or break you.  Personally, I think you'll appreciate the challenge of the fixed lens and you'll love the Fuji files.  (But make it an augmentation to your existing system.)



I used to have the orginal X100 and boy did I love that camera! However, it had the FinePix sensor which I preferred. I may be one of the rare ones, but I'm not impressed with the new X-Trans raw files because Lightroom handles them like crap and I'm not going to use a raw converter first and then import them, Its just another step I have to do. 

But I have thought about just getting another old X100 for fun. But then again...why not just pop a prime on my DSLR? I guess using the X100 cameras means the lenses are fixed and I have no choice but to use it.


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## pixmedic (Dec 22, 2016)

nerwin said:


> Gary A. said:
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you must have been using an older version of LR...
I only use adobe CC and use LR for all my fuji raw files.  never had any issues with the processing. 
i have noticed that adobe updates PS, LR, and camera raw CC pretty regularly.


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## nerwin (Dec 22, 2016)

pixmedic said:


> nerwin said:
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I have the latest and always checking fuji raw files after updates and still see the same fine detail smearing. I don't like it.


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## Derrel (Dec 22, 2016)

I see that I got to your thread late after most of the fireworks. As for focusing problems, slow aperture variable lenses like f 3.5 - 5.6 lenses, and other slow lenses like your 24 - 120, these lenses will function their best with the AF assist light system enabled. I've owned three different Nikons that have an AF assist light of the white light type. It really really helps and it does not need a direct line of sight- just having it on will bypass the lens hoods. Additionally, using just one single point out of 39 total points means you're using about 1/39 of the processing power the camera has at its disposal. At least switch to 9-point AF in difficult low-light conditions, especially with slow aperture lenses.

Phase detection autofocus works based on in focus and out of focus data being analysed and compared with focusing movement of the lens. With short focal-length lenses, and lenses with small diameter maximum apertures, the difference between what is in focus and what is out of focus is very slight. The difference in focusing performance between an F4 24mm zoom lens and a 24mm F1.8 prime is substantial. If a lens gives a very unfocused or a very out of focus set of data to the AF system it will focus well and easily,such as how a 300 mm F 2.8 lens does. A 50mm 1.4 lens has AF data that gives decidedly in Focus or out of focus readings as the lens is moved through the distances, but a slow f 5.6 18-55 mm Zoom does not.At its 55mm setting the lens has fairly deep depth of field so as the lens focuses what is in Focus or out of focus is not an either-or clean break but more a very slow slog between yeah kind of in- focus yeah a little out of focus,so I guess this is the best. So when only one single point of AF data is allowed to be processed the computer will struggle when there is not a crisp, clean in- or out of-focus break. When the focus Computing system has more than one, single point of data to consider, it is much easier to get decent focusing with slow lenses. As we move into an era with more and more slow maximum aperture and variable maximum aperture zoom lenses designed to be inexpensive and light,  we tend to run into more problems then we did in the era of fast f 1.4 and f 2 and even F 2.8 lenses.

I think perhaps one of the best investments you could make is buying Thom Hogan's The Complete Guide to the Nikon D600 and D610. He has the entire AF system explained. Besides the number of AF squares in use such as 1 or 9 or 21 or 39, you also have the AF area mode to consider. It sounds to me as if you are using the D600 in a very simple manner, and are not using two of the most essential focusing assist tools, which would be 9-point, And the AF assist light system, in tough situations. I remember the first time I used my 11-point d2x camera with one of the group AF square modes. The difference was night and day. The camera went from missing or losing focus, to being able to nail autofocus. On moving subjects like pole vaulters and long jumpers going through the air.


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## jsecordphoto (Dec 22, 2016)

It seems like every time I check the boards here there's a new thread from you about buying/selling/switching gear. Pretty sure I gave you the same advice a few months ago- shoot more, post less.


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## nerwin (Dec 22, 2016)

jsecordphoto said:


> It seems like every time I check the boards here there's a new thread from you about buying/selling/switching gear. Pretty sure I gave you the same advice a few months ago- shoot more, post less.



You're right. I have GAS, I'm sorry.


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## astroNikon (Dec 22, 2016)

nerwin said:


> jsecordphoto said:
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> > It seems like every time I check the boards here there's a new thread from you about buying/selling/switching gear. Pretty sure I gave you the same advice a few months ago- shoot more, post less.
> ...


.in the last 6 months I've bought a d750 and a d500.
I put the pedal to the metal with the gas!!


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## nerwin (Dec 22, 2016)

astroNikon said:


> nerwin said:
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You really bought a D500?


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## astroNikon (Dec 22, 2016)

nerwin said:


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Was using it for some macro work earlier ==>





..


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## Derrel (Dec 23, 2016)

The white-light AF assist system can take $30 and $40 second-hand zooms, like say the Tamron 28-80 f/3.5~5.6, or the $35 Nikkor 35-70mm f/3.3~4.5, and make them SNAP to focus indoors in dismal lighting, as if they were $1,999 f/2.8 lenses like the old AF-S 28-70, or the new $2,400 f/ 24-70mm. All of this on ANCIENT camera bodies, like the Fuji S2 pro or the S5 Pro/D200.


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## nerwin (Dec 23, 2016)

astroNikon said:


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> ...



So what do you prefer more, D500 or D750? 

Also noticed you had a Nikon closeup filter? I didn't know Nikon made close up filters, I thought Canon only did.


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## nerwin (Dec 23, 2016)

Derrel said:


> The white-light AF assist system can take $30 and $40 second-hand zooms, like say the Tamron 28-80 f/3.5~5.6, or the $35 Nikkor 35-70mm f/3.3~4.5, and make them SNAP to focus indoors in dismal lighting, as if they were $1,999 f/2.8 lenses like the old AF-S 28-70, or the new $2,400 f/ 24-70mm. All of this on ANCIENT camera bodies, like the Fuji S2 pro or the S5 Pro/D200.



Why don't the higher end Nikon bodies like the D500 and D5 have a AF assist lamp if it really helps that much? Or do those bodies have such superior AF systems that they don't need it?


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## astroNikon (Dec 23, 2016)

nerwin said:


> Why don't the higher end Nikon bodies like the D500 and D5 have a AF assist lamp if it really helps that much? Or do those bodies have such superior AF systems that they don't need it?


Yeah I noticed that too.  But no worries, I'd just stick a SB-700/800 or my yongnuo RF Trigger on top and use the IR pattern mentioned before.  

You can read about it here == > How to Make Autofocus Work in Extremely Low Light

There's a point when the technology/equipment won't do something and you'll just have to add something or use a workaround.  If a single camera did everything everyone wanted it to do it'd probably be a big as a car and cost a million dollars, with the included coffee maker.


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## nerwin (Dec 23, 2016)

astroNikon said:


> nerwin said:
> 
> 
> > Why don't the higher end Nikon bodies like the D500 and D5 have a AF assist lamp if it really helps that much? Or do those bodies have such superior AF systems that they don't need it?
> ...



Hmm. I didn't know the Yongnuos had a built in IR pattern for AF. I think I'd still rather get a SB-700 first and then pick up Yongnuos for slaves.


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## astroNikon (Dec 23, 2016)

nerwin said:


> So what do you prefer more, D500 or D750?
> 
> Also noticed you had a Nikon closeup filter? I didn't know Nikon made close up filters, I thought Canon only did.


Info about the Nikon Closeup filters ==> Is the 50mm 1.8G a micro lens?

D500 or 750 ?

I don't know.  For which particular purpose?

Studio type stuff where a  85mm lens *is* an 85mm lens.  The D750.
Indoor bad light soccer.  Probably the D750 still as you still have to deal with upclose action and the 1.5x crop causes issues with that. 

Aircraft, Moon, stars, planets, or outdoor soccer when I'm sitting high in the stands on a full size field, or on the sidelines or end corners with the 150-600 ... the D500. (I don't like to carry 2 cameras but I could to get up close stuff and have the D750 with the 80-200 or 24-85).

Local birds, at the conservatory  maybe the D750 or D500. I don't know yet.  You can get really up close to the birds (with a long lens) so the extra 1.5x is not needed.

Flower photography?  hmm .. don't know.
Catching butterflies & bees in flight ?  The D500 in 4K video mode !!

I was testing and decided on a D5500 for what my main goal was.  But was given a nice bundle with the D500, so I got that.  At some point I'll get a D5300 Full Spectrum camera too.

So far, I haven't had a use for Continuous High 10fps.  That would be great for BIF.  So I set CL to 6fps and I'm happy with that.  There's a few ergonomic / layout changes which are annoying me as I adjusted my shooting style to the D750, D600, D7000, d70 layout and now have to change a few things to adjust again.


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## astroNikon (Dec 23, 2016)

The question is what are you needs?
What is holding you back with your existing equipment?
Have you done everything to learn and understand all the features of your camera/gear, learned the workarounds and techniques, etc before getting itchy to change/add cameras?

A new camera won't fix technical or education/knowledge issues.

The camera won't do it on it's own.  In AUTO mode it will make it's own decisions (and I've found the wrong settings to what I would use).  So *you* either have to do everything in your capacity to get the shot right or just get whatever you get. Education & practicing is key.


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## adamhiram (Dec 23, 2016)

nerwin said:


> Why don't the higher end Nikon bodies like the D500 and D5 have a AF assist lamp if it really helps that much? Or do those bodies have such superior AF systems that they don't need it?


I have yet to find a situation where the D500's AF doesn't perform well without an assist lamp.  The low-light performance is incredible, and I'm still in awe of the AF system after upgrading from a D5100.  My current project is learning the various groupings for AF-C, which was kind of irrelevant on my old body.


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## astroNikon (Dec 23, 2016)

adamhiram said:


> nerwin said:
> 
> 
> > Why don't the higher end Nikon bodies like the D500 and D5 have a AF assist lamp if it really helps that much? Or do those bodies have such superior AF systems that they don't need it?
> ...


I've found the AF on-par with the D600/D750  w/no assist lamp in really low light situations in a few tests that I've done.


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## robbins.photo (Dec 23, 2016)

nerwin said:


> Why don't the higher end Nikon bodies like the D500 and D5 have a AF assist lamp if it really helps that much? Or do those bodies have such superior AF systems that they don't need it?



Ok, so a couple of thoughts here in no particular order.  First, as to the above question, my assumption is that most folks who spend the kind of money you spend to get a D500 or a D5 probably don't need an AF assist light all that often.  Normally with cameras like that your going to be shooting stuff that your far enough away that an AF assist light wouldn't prove all that useful.  Also most folks who spend that kind of money on a camera body are probably going to invest in some expensive, high end glass that doesn't really need an AF assist light as much.

As for our autofocus discussion, I highly recommend you try using AF-C 9 point and leave the points in the center.  On the D600 and D610 the 9 center AF points are all cross type - and as a result they tend to be able to grab focus quickly even in low light situations.

My preferred method of shooting is to leave them in the center, shoot wide and crop in post.  While I realize that a lot of folks prefer "getting it right in camera" for a guy like me that really isn't as much of an option.  What I shoot most often are moving targets in cluttered backgrounds.  As such the cameras AF system often struggles to decide what best to focus on - I found out very quickly through trial and error that I got my best results, my highest keeper rates using this method.

My other issue of course, I'm shooting blind.  That's not an exaggeration.  I am at the moment legally blind.  I can only see out of one eye and the one eye I have that works has something like 20/300 vision.  When looking through my viewfinder I can't even see the numbers at the bottom clearly enough to make out my ISO, shutter speed, etc.

And yet even though I am legally blind I still rarely if ever miss a shot because it's OOF.  

My last recommendation, well I'd probably echo Astro here.  I think you'd be much better served learning to use what you already have and developing a shooting method that works well for you, as opposed to trying to solve the problem with new gear.


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## nerwin (Dec 23, 2016)

astroNikon said:


> The question is what are you needs?
> What is holding you back with your existing equipment?
> Have you done everything to learn and understand all the features of your camera/gear, learned the workarounds and techniques, etc before getting itchy to change/add cameras?
> 
> ...



I don't know what my needs are to be honest. Everyone says to focus on one thing, but I don't know what the one thing is because I like everything and I just don't have the opportunities that every photographer online seems to have.

You really want to why I buy and sell camera gear often? It's because I've been battling depression for years and if buying and selling camera gear and discussing it makes me feel better and is a distraction from doing something stupid to myself, it's a price I am willing to pay.

With that being said, I NEVER intended for this conversation to get to this point. The previous night I simply was just talking to a friend of mine about camera gear and what we could see in 2017 for a video he was making and he mentioned that he was close to switching to Canon which in return made me think about it and if there was any benefits of actually switching from Nikon to Canon in 2017 and there isn't really any benefits as discussed here and that's all I wanted, was simple discussion about if it was worth switching at this point in time and never intended for it to be specifically about me. I never said I was actually going to switch.  But apparently I was wrong, I'm stupid and I apologize for the confusion.

Yes, I do have a problem. I don't know where I want to take my photography. I look at all this amazing photos that are shared here at TPF, on Flickr, Instagram, Facebook and wherever and it makes me incredibly jealous because I know, I'll never be that good and makes me want to sell everything and give up. But I don't want to give up, I'm trying my best man. I always feel like I NEED to shoot everyday, but do I really need to? Some say yes and some say no so I don't know.

I honestly don't know what to do. @Gary A. mentioned I think the X100T because it has a fixed prime that coulden't be removed which forced you to shoot with that no matter what and I had the orginal X100, it really did make me think about composition and what not so maybe I should just stick with one single prime for a while..like a month or two and just force myself to shoot everything with that instead.

I overthink things a lot, I know. I give up on life... (the holidays certainly are not helping my case either...)


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## Derrel (Dec 23, 2016)

Do what you need to do, man. Whatever makes you happy. But do remain open to learning new things, and learning more about the system you have. For example, have some FUN, and try out the 9-point AF sometime, just to see what it can do, or how it works. Using one focal length of lens will teach you about how perspective works: perspective is based on camera to subject distance, not on lens length, and a singlke focal length lens makes you move the camera, changing perspective, all the time.

I follow you on Instagram. You ARE getting better, and are exploring things more and more! keep shooting, keep having fun!


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## coastalconn (Dec 23, 2016)

nerwin said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> > The white-light AF assist system can take $30 and $40 second-hand zooms, like say the Tamron 28-80 f/3.5~5.6, or the $35 Nikkor 35-70mm f/3.3~4.5, and make them SNAP to focus indoors in dismal lighting, as if they were $1,999 f/2.8 lenses like the old AF-S 28-70, or the new $2,400 f/ 24-70mm. All of this on ANCIENT camera bodies, like the Fuji S2 pro or the S5 Pro/D200.
> ...


I think you can safely assume the Pro bodies don't have an AF-assist light because they don't have a pop up flash.  If you are in a situation where you would need a flash, the flash itself would have the built in AF assist..


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## nerwin (Dec 23, 2016)

Derrel said:


> Do what you need to do, man. Whatever makes you happy. But do remain open to learning new things, and learning more about the system you have. For example, have some FUN, and try out the 9-point AF sometime, just to see what it can do, or how it works. Using one focal length of lens will teach you about how perspective works: perspective is based on camera to subject distance, not on lens length, and a singlke focal length lens makes you move the camera, changing perspective, all the time.
> 
> I follow you on Instagram. You ARE getting better, and are exploring things more and more! keep shooting, keep having fun!



Thanks Derrel, but those photos you often see on Instagram are old photos I took years ago because I have nothing new to share haha.


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## nerwin (Dec 23, 2016)

coastalconn said:


> nerwin said:
> 
> 
> > Derrel said:
> ...



That is true, didn't think about that!


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## robbins.photo (Dec 23, 2016)

nerwin said:


> astroNikon said:
> 
> 
> > The question is what are you needs?
> ...



Well one thing to keep in mind, when folks like myself or Astro or many of the others respond and encourage you to focus on the photography rather than the gear we do so out of a genuine desire to help you.

There are a lot of folks here who care about you, myself included - and that's why we respond in that manner.  We are trying to look out for you.  So yes, we may be a pain about it sometimes but just think about it a bit, if we didn't care we wouldn't bother.


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## astroNikon (Dec 23, 2016)

I shoot about everything.   I don't limit myself.

The concept of focusing on one thing is to improve one's technique on a particular subject.  As if you concentrate on that one thing you are more likely to be less distracted and learn more, more quickly.


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## nerwin (Dec 23, 2016)

Thanks guys, I really do appreciate the help and advice. 

But I am lost, so lost. I just don't have a direction to aim for. 

I think I need to go back when I was just shooting primes, I had the most fun then. Haha. I had the D7000 and 35 1.8 and I brought that everywhere and had fun. I need to have fun with photography again.


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## astroNikon (Dec 23, 2016)

nerwin said:


> Thanks guys, I really do appreciate the help and advice.
> 
> But I am lost, so lost. I just don't have a direction to aim for.
> 
> I think I need to go back when I was just shooting primes, I had the most fun then. Haha. I had the D7000 and 35 1.8 and I brought that everywhere and had fun. I need to have fun with photography again.


Put a 50mm on your D610 then.

Look back at the subjects you were shooting back then too.


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## nerwin (Dec 23, 2016)

astroNikon said:


> nerwin said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks guys, I really do appreciate the help and advice.
> ...



I never cared for the 50mm because it doesn't focus close enough for me. That's why I've been thinking about getting the 28 1.8g which I think I'll really enjoy. I haven't bought anything for my birthday yet, so I'm going to buy one!


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## Gary A. (Dec 23, 2016)

Good for you! (and Happy Birthday)


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## DarkShadow (Dec 23, 2016)

I thought about switching to Hasselblad 50MP,but I am still saving,I have $44,395 dollars to go.


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## astroNikon (Dec 23, 2016)

nerwin said:


> I never cared for the 50mm because it doesn't focus close enough for me. That's why I've been thinking about getting the 28 1.8g which I think I'll really enjoy. I haven't bought anything for my birthday yet, so I'm going to buy one!


That's why I have the Nikon Closeup attachments.
My 24-85/2.8-4.0 can go into macro mode too and get literally an inch away from the subject.


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## astroNikon (Dec 23, 2016)

and with you d610 you should consider the 105/2.8 AF-D to save a bit $$ over the AF-S G version for closeup photography without getting perspective distortion like you would with a closeup with the 28mm.


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## nerwin (Dec 23, 2016)

astroNikon said:


> and with you d610 you should consider the 105/2.8 AF-D to save a bit $$ over the AF-S G version for closeup photography without getting perspective distortion like you would with a closeup with the 28mm.



I don't plan on doing macro with a 28mm though lol. I had the 105 2.8g macro which I loved and sold because I'm dumb, big mistake. Used prices are decent though. I'm tempted to buy one again some point.


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## Peeb (Dec 23, 2016)

nerwin said:


> Thanks guys, I really do appreciate the help and advice.
> 
> But I am lost, so lost. I just don't have a direction to aim for.
> 
> I think I need to go back when I was just shooting primes, I had the most fun then. Haha. I had the D7000 and 35 1.8 and I brought that everywhere and had fun. I need to have fun with photography again.


I've had writer's block before and it's terrible.  You seem to have the photographer's equivalent to that.

I'm sure I'm telling you things you already know, but focus (figuratively) on light.  Photography is all about light.  That, and travel when you can.  Seeing new things is always inspirational.

You're right- it's gotta be fun or else it's just work- right?    That's not to say that a great image doesn't take a lot of work- but it should be work that is a labor of love- and .... fun.  Hope you find your 'fun' again soon!

PS- I get a bit nostalgic when I look at old images I took and I wonder how in the heck I was able to capture that all those years ago.  Truth be told- some of my best images were surprises even to me!  I recall sending off rolls of film, SO excited to see a particular image, and to my surprise it was often a 'throw-away' shot at the end of the day that I liked better.  The take-away:  just keep shootin' bro!  

Be well, and good luck.


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## nerwin (Dec 23, 2016)

Does everyone here shoot everyday or only when they feel like it or have jobs? 

I wish I could travel, it's a big goal of mine. But its just not possible right now.


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## astroNikon (Dec 23, 2016)

Only when I have time.


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## coastalconn (Dec 23, 2016)

nerwin said:


> Does everyone here shoot everyday or only when they feel like it or have jobs?
> 
> I wish I could travel, it's a big goal of mine. But its just not possible right now.


I try to shoot everyday, but sometime life or weather gets in the way. But I'm a chef so I have my mornings free..


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## Desert Rose (Dec 24, 2016)

I wouldn't get rid of the Nikon gear you have but if you want to try Canon why would you have to get rid if it anyways, just add a Canon to your lineup.
I have a few Nikons, a couple Canons, a Sony, a Samsung, a couple Fujis, and a few other assorted bodies and lots of lenses for all.
I have never seen the sense in getting rid of gear to buy new gear. It's like books, just add more to the collection and buy bigger shelves.


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## JonA_CT (Dec 24, 2016)

nerwin said:


> Does everyone here shoot everyday or only when they feel like it or have jobs?
> 
> I wish I could travel, it's a big goal of mine. But its just not possible right now.



I'm definitely in the "when I have time" category, and really, what that means for me, is when I make time. I have a week plus off for the holiday, but before that I was working my full-time job, plus a evening teaching gig, plus grading and planning, plus being a dad. 

When I was looking through LR to make my end-of-year photo book, I took almost no photos in October and November, but some of my favorites for the year are from those two months. I think it's probably because they were more purposeful...I had been envisioning a couple of ideas for weeks before I made the time to try to execute. Of my favorite shots from 2016, only 2 were further than 50 miles from my house.

You also live someplace that people travel specifically to go take photos. I know when I was up there in the spring I wish I had more time for photography and less time for drinking beer, haha. I'll probably bring my camera when I make my beer run next week to The Alchemist and to Hill Farmstead, and take the time to take the photos I see.


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## nerwin (Dec 24, 2016)

Desert Rose said:


> I wouldn't get rid of the Nikon gear you have but if you want to try Canon why would you have to get rid if it anyways, just add a Canon to your lineup.
> I have a few Nikons, a couple Canons, a Sony, a Samsung, a couple Fujis, and a few other assorted bodies and lots of lenses for all.
> I have never seen the sense in getting rid of gear to buy new gear. It's like books, just add more to the collection and buy bigger shelves.



Because I'm not rich lol.


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## astroNikon (Dec 24, 2016)

nerwin said:


> Desert Rose said:
> 
> 
> > I wouldn't get rid of the Nikon gear you have but if you want to try Canon why would you have to get rid if it anyways, just add a Canon to your lineup.
> ...


Neither am I
Otherwise I would have kept my D600 & p7800 (helped pay for d750), D7000 (helped pay for d600) etc cameras.  And I'd buy a D5 and a 1dx and ....

Well basically the hobby can't expand/ move forward  if I don't sell my old gear.  It was hard selling the d600 because I really understood how to use that camera but a few features of the d750 had me sold.


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## nerwin (Dec 24, 2016)

astroNikon said:


> nerwin said:
> 
> 
> > Desert Rose said:
> ...



I'm curious how the D750 replacement will be.


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## Gary A. (Dec 24, 2016)

I shoot something everyday. Of late it has been more iPhone than 'real' camera.  Nearly every morning I walk The Cook, (a Wheaten Terrier and best friend), and I shoot something.  As the routes are somewhat repetitive, I look for subtle differences and and nuances of lighting.  It's not about fun for me as much as it is the challenge of finding and capturing the exceptional image. I've also been in a slump, it isn't the shooting as much as it is the processing. I processed and printed some photos for Christmas and man ... it has been so long that it took me hours and hours to get it all right.  I've realized that I need to stay on top of things to keep my skill levels up.


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## greybeard (Dec 24, 2016)

What lenses does Canon have that you are interested in using?


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## SquarePeg (Dec 29, 2016)

I wish I could shoot every day but I only shoot when I have time.  I agree with JonA_CT, you have to make the time.  If I have a subject that I want to shoot or the vision of a scene I plan to capture, I'm much more likely to find the time to shoot it than I am to take a random photo walk or go on an outing with taking photos as my goal.  I don't carry my camera with me everywhere so it really does have to be at least a bit premeditated for me.


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## runnah (Dec 29, 2016)

Don't upgrade your bike, bike up grades.


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## robbins.photo (Dec 29, 2016)

runnah said:


> Don't upgrade your bike, bike up grades.



I bet that sounds a lot more profound in Chinese.  That's probably how Confucius got away with it...


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