# refund?



## rub (Aug 13, 2011)

A few weeks ago I broke my collarbone and tore my AC, the night before a wedding. 

As per my contract, I found a suitable replacement ( they did a wicked job ) and am just about to deliver the client proofs. 

I received an email from the brides father 2 weeks ago pretty well saying they would ruin my reputation if I didn't provide the images right away (my contract says 6 weeks) and they thought I had taken the money and ran. 

Yesterday I received an email from the bride saying they wanted a refund, as they had saved all their money for me, and didn't get me. 

My contract is clear, but I do not want a battle, particularily a public one. 

Any suggestions on what to do? 

Their package includes a high res disk for personal use only, and a canvas. I am doing all the editing, and paid the replacement shooters nearly the entire wedding price. $1360 from $1750 - plus I have $300 in hard costs. So right now I'm sitting at making $90 on this entire wedding.  

Thanks.


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## Authorized (Aug 13, 2011)

Tell them to %$&^ off.  People say, "I'll tell everybody you blah blah blah, and it will ruin your reputation."  all the time.  They never do. What are they going to do, run a television and radio ad?  If your contract is solid, you have nothing to worry about.


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## Railphotog (Aug 13, 2011)

So they'd be happy with no photos at all, or did they want the substitutes' photos for free?   I'd tell them to bugger off.


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## tirediron (Aug 13, 2011)

If you contract is solid and it sounds like it is (but I'd get a legal opinion first), then yep, tell them to take a long walk off of a very short pier.  You fulfilled the terms of your contract.


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## Mitica100 (Aug 13, 2011)

^
+1


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## Robin Usagani (Aug 13, 2011)

Wow.. that sucks that you get cold hearted customers like that.  I couldnt think of ONE past client that would do that to me.  They probably feel really bad with me breaking my collar bone.

Did you keep a good communication between you and your client?  At least post some sneak peek photos?  Just so they know you were working on it.  If you had 0 communication then I cant blame them for thinking you ran with the money.


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## KmH (Aug 13, 2011)

I love posts like these. We only get to hear one side of the story. But add me to the list that advocates telling them to pound sand, and that unjustified attempts at reputation ruining frequently backfire. 

 I highly recommend you save and print all the emails, and on Monday morning use the $90 to contact and schedule an appointment for a consultation with an attorney. Hopefully, the same attorney who helped you create your contract.


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## jake337 (Aug 13, 2011)

I think they are just rying to get you to give them some money back or something.  I'm sure the bride would want some photo's of her wedding.  Trying to ruin your rep would leave them with nothing to remember her big day besides cellphone pics and p&s shots.


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## rub (Aug 13, 2011)

Thanks all. The communication was there the whole time. I was slower than usual in getting the teasers up, but they saw them and loved them. 

They want a refund and the photos. 

I just wanted to be sure I wasn't 1/2 insane and that maybe I should be giving them
Something because I wasn't there.


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## johnh2005 (Aug 13, 2011)

rub said:


> Thanks all. The communication was there the whole time. I was slower than usual in getting the teasers up, but they saw them and loved them.
> 
> They want a refund and the photos.
> 
> ...



This is what I thought from the beginning.  I would tell them no refund and no photos and to bed over and...  Well these are nicer forums than that...  Seriously what is wrong with people now a days?  Seriously?  Saw the teasers and loved them.  Bitched you were not the photographer but they WANT the photos and a refund?  I would mail them a certified letter with a bunch of old dog photos and see them in court and just show the receipt for the cert letter and say you mailed them the photos you have no idea what they are talking about.


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## Ballistics (Aug 13, 2011)

It definitely sucks that you weren't the photographer. I'm sure you can understand the frustration there. But that's about as far as I would go to justify their actions and behavior because frankly, that isn't how people should act. To demand a refund AND the service is ludicrous. Like it's a fast food service. If you did follow your contract, and a substitute photographer was apart of it, then they have no choice but to accept it. This is exactly what is wrong with consumers these days. They believe that because they are the consumer, they have ALL rights and the service provider has none. Every business has it's nightmare clients, so it's only a matter of time before you had one. Sorry to hear this and hope it goes your way.


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## Tony S (Aug 13, 2011)

Umm, are you sure the photographer you had replace you hasn't been trying to drum up the business from them even though you gave him most of the contracted amount?


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## IgsEMT (Aug 13, 2011)

If u r a PPA member, they have services for situations like these. 
Good luck and feel better


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## j28 (Aug 15, 2011)

There is no way I would give a refund and the images.  It sounds like they are trying to take advantage of you.


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## bennielou (Aug 16, 2011)

Hi Lady,
I'm so sorry to hear about your breakage.  Ugg, I've had a broken collarbone in the past, and it's blindingly painful.  Get better soon!

Now for the sad part:  People sue other people every day for all kinds of petty B.S.   They can also talk all the smack they want on the internet.
The happy part: is that you covered yourself with a contract that had a stipend for this situation, an excellent reason for transferring the job (it was actually in the clients best interest as you couldn't have done the job to your normal ability with a break like that), and seem to have bent over backwards to make them happy.  You provided them with photos that they really like.  There is no judge anywhere, in a courtroom or the internet that would take there bitching as legit.

YMMV, but my response would be to say it just like I have above.  Let them know that THEY were your first concern.  And that you DID take care of them.  And NO WAY IN HELL do they get the photos AND the money.  Pick one.  

This type of thing has happened to a few friends of mine in town, and they stuck to their guns, and came out a.o.k on all counts.  They won their court cases, and they also won the sympathy of lots and lots of brides who totally went with the photographer in the dispute.

Just get well.


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## imagemaker46 (Aug 16, 2011)

bennielou said:


> Hi Lady,
> I'm so sorry to hear about your breakage. Ugg, I've had a broken collarbone in the past, and it's blindingly painful. Get better soon!
> 
> Now for the sad part: People sue other people every day for all kinds of petty B.S. They can also talk all the smack they want on the internet.
> ...



Well said bennilou.  It is a tough situation when something comes up that falls outside the control of the contracted photographer, having to deal with an injury, and then deal with people that are apparently happy with what they saw and yet still want to stir up trouble, it really adds insult to injury.  Having aquired a replacement photographer on short notice is tough enough.  I would just stick to it, I wouldn't consider any kind of refund, give them the photos and if they want to go to court over it, at last you can say, "I honoured the contract"   Good luck.


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## KmH (Aug 16, 2011)

Email them this:


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## photogir2002 (Aug 17, 2011)

NO! They get the photos, you get the money. PERIOD. You did everything you could, in my opinion. You could have left them without anyone to shoot their wedding with the shape you were in so screw them. They sound like awful people who dont even deserve the photos, let alone a refund!!!


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## Jessicarae (Aug 17, 2011)

rub said:


> Thanks all. The communication was there the whole time. I was slower than usual in getting the teasers up, but they saw them and loved them.
> 
> They want a refund and the photos.
> 
> ...



I had a client do this to me recently - demand that he get a refund and the photos because he didn't like them, and when I did a quick internet search I found out that he had already used my proofs for his own purposes. I don't watermark proofs if they have already paid. I didn't respond to his e-mails while I was consulting a lawyer, and he ended up never posting the bad reviews he spoke about. Besides... lots of people don't look at reviews anyway. And on top of that, even if they do post a bad review, it still boosts your web presence and lets you appear higher on search engines. I'm sure you have plenty of good reviews.

But whatever you do DO NOT give them the refund and the photos. If they try to take you to court they will look like absolute retards.


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## Kerbouchard (Aug 17, 2011)

I definitely would not tell them to stick it or any other type of hard lined response.  I would do everything in my power to make sure everybody was happy.  Explain things like you've explained here, take a bit of what bennielou said about acting in the client's best interests, and hopefully everybody can leave smiling.

If you earn a reputation as a bait and switch photographer, it could ruin you.  People hire you based on your portfolio, reputation, demeanor, etc.  If people think they aren't going to get that from you, it could seriously hurt your business.

Just my .02.


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## bennielou (Aug 18, 2011)

The thing is, RUB:

They WANT the photos.  They will make the right decision and pay for them.  When you offer the either/or prospect that I outlined to you, I've never, ever seen anyone take the money and walk away with no photos.  It doesn't happen.

However, when you give them the offer, along with the explaination of WHY you had to bring in another photographer and HOW IT WAS A BENEFIT to THEM, you are giving them some rational, as well as putting them in the power position, which is what they want.  They will choose the photos.

Unless that is, they want to spend all that money again to totally redo the wedding.  It just won't happen.  And if they sue, you will win.

How are you feeling btw?  Better I hope!


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## rub (Aug 18, 2011)

Finally spoke with the Bride and Grrom - I told them I had read their concerns and would resond this week.  I told them that while I understand their frustration, and disappointment, they need to know a few things:

1) I was looking out for their BEST interests by hiring not 1, but 4 photogrpahers to have coverage. (One for the morning while hair and makeup was being done, my second shooter as planned, and the replacement couple who had to drive in 2 hours) I didnt skimp and get the first person that offered, I got the BEST I could find - which happend to be one of the best in our area.

2) I paid over and above what they were paying to ensure they had great coverage on their day.

3) That aside from shooting that day, I still have to do all of the work, for free.

4) That for them to ask me to pay for their wedding photography out of my own pocket is both unfair and unreasonable.

5) In the end though, I still want them to be happy and to feel liek this is a positive experience, so I am willing to offer a $200 account credit for them to go towards showing off the awesome photos in their new home.

They happily agreed and thanked me for my hard work.


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## bennielou (Aug 18, 2011)

Yay!  Happy resolve!  Get better!


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## Kerbouchard (Aug 18, 2011)

Perfectly handled.  Nicely done.


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## gsgary (Aug 18, 2011)

I second the tell them to **** off and if they carry on some heavies will go round and break their ****ing legs


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## dnavarrojr (Aug 18, 2011)

Nicely handled.  It's amazing what "print credits" can do to solve a lot of issues.


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## j28 (Aug 20, 2011)

Well done!  I'm glad it was easily resolved.  It's amazing what people will settle for when they see you aren't going to completely cave.


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## PerfectCanvases (Aug 20, 2011)

You just like everybody else and myself, Soft.
Would they give you a refund %$%^ NO!!
You have already paid the money to the replacement photographer.
Call his bluff which is 99% gas.


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