# Am i ready to charge?



## Nick Melson (Feb 7, 2011)

I've just started doing portrait stuff recently and started charging people. £20 for an hour n half which includes all the pictures slightly edited [small imperfections and what not] and then the pictures on a disc and posted/given to them.
So far in the last 2 days that i've been charging i've had 3 shoots and have a few more this week.

Heres my Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/pages/Nick-M...27082464027797 
Really would like some comments on what i could improve on etc.

Next month i'm looking into buying a studio kit, backdrops, lighting, soft boxes, wireless triggers etc there some pretty good deals on ebay atm.


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## Samerr9 (Feb 7, 2011)

I can't open the link..


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## Nick Melson (Feb 7, 2011)

Samerr9 said:


> I can't open the link..



Sorry this one should work.

Nick Melson Photography | Facebook


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## Babs (Feb 7, 2011)

I guess the short answer is that you're ready to charge if you can find people willing to pay! I had a look at the portrait shots, and although there are some nice ones, the lighting seems off on quite a few of them, and on others there's shadows and/or folds on the background which is quite distracting. 

Maybe wait until you've got your new set-up and see if that helps eliminate some of the dark areas and shadows??

BTW - there's no apostrophe in "photos"


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## Nick Melson (Feb 7, 2011)

Babs said:


> I guess the short answer is that you're ready to charge if you can find people willing to pay! I had a look at the portrait shots, and although there are some nice ones, the lighting seems off on quite a few of them, and on others there's shadows and/or folds on the background which is quite distracting.
> 
> Maybe wait until you've got your new set-up and see if that helps eliminate some of the dark areas and shadows??
> 
> BTW - there's no apostrophe in "photos"



Thankyou.
All of the people i have shot so far are friends/family friends all the pictures of them selfs or there kids are always taken on the phones so there all willing to pay.

Yeah the set up im using atm is just a white sheet and a jessops flash.
When i get some better lighting and backdrops they will look alot better.


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## Formatted (Feb 7, 2011)

Looks like your using the on camera flash which is a big no!


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## Nick Melson (Feb 7, 2011)

Formatted said:


> Looks like your using the on camera flash which is a big no!



Nope i'm using Jessops 360AFD Digital Flashgun for Nikon - Jessops


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## dyyylan (Feb 7, 2011)

I think you should work on your lighting a lot more, in many of those pictures the subject is underexposed or it looks like you just hotshoe'd a flash onto a your camera, making for uninteresting light. If you're going to pick something to underexpose, do it to the background, not the person you're trying to light.


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## dallasimagery (Feb 7, 2011)

Obviously there are horrible people on craistlist charging, but that aside, I would cast a vote to say that you're fairly far away from being able to charge. I'd recommend spending another couple of years really studying books, taking classes and practicing.


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## Derrel (Feb 7, 2011)

Your lighting looks dark most of the time, and dull. MOre studying of photo technique, framing, and posing would really help. Right now you're at that beginning level of technical adequacy, but your artistry with a camera has not begun to develop.


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## RauschPhotography (Feb 7, 2011)

I agree with what's already been said--the lighting does need some work, as well as the composition itself. I wouldn't personally charge for shots like these, but there may be a few friends who might pay you for pictures with their significant other, or something of that extent. Keep practicing, and you'll get to that level eventually.


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## bigtwinky (Feb 7, 2011)

There is a difference between charging prices as a real photographer, and what most people do and charge peanuts for the work.  The peanuters are what is driving the photography market down.

Get your shots, lighting and post production down 100% and then start charging real prices.  You can still have lower end real prices.  But $40 for a session that includes all images on a CD?  Just do it for free while you learn.

In some cases, way under charging will come back to haunt you as you'll find that people know you are the cheap ass photographer, so raising your prices as your skill raises will have you lose pretty much all of your clients.


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## MichiganFarts (Feb 7, 2011)

I'd take some quick pics for dinner, a good movie, and some salty peanuts!

I don't think the OP's ready for cashews yet, though.


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## rmh159 (Feb 7, 2011)

Part of me wants to say that if people are willing to pay, there's no reason to not take their money but you probably need to consider reputation pretty heavily as I'd imagine you'd get most business from word-of-mouth.  If you start out charging peanuts you might have trouble charging more later as your skills improve.  Just a thought.


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## tirediron (Feb 7, 2011)

Nick Melson said:


> Formatted said:
> 
> 
> > Looks like your using the on camera flash which is a big no!
> ...


 
Looks like an on-camera flash to me...


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## mwcfarms (Feb 7, 2011)

I think what they meant is your flash is mounted on your camera. As opposed to off of it on a stand held to the side and above etc. It still produces really harsh in your face lighting when you have it mounted to the camera. Not talking about your pop up flash but the placement of your light source.


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## mwcfarms (Feb 7, 2011)

You can see in a good portion of your portraits the very small pinpoint catchlights in the subjects eyes. This is how we know your flash is on camera.


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## dallasimagery (Feb 7, 2011)

mwcfarms said:


> You can see in a good portion of your portraits the very small pinpoint catchlights in the subjects eyes. This is how we know your flash is on camera.



Well technically that's actually an indicator of the size of the lightsource; not that it's on the camera.


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## mwcfarms (Feb 7, 2011)

Perhaps I should have said centered small pinpoints and their positioning in the eye to be more specific. I was typing too fast and should have elaborated. Small pinpoint centered in the pupil is most likely a small  bare light source and the position in the eye indicates it was on camera.


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## KmH (Feb 7, 2011)

£20 is about $32.26.

How many photo's do you take in 1.5 hours and how many are on a disc?

I doubt you're not even making US minimum wage, $7.25 an hour (£4.50) once all your time and business expenses are figured in.

How much do you figure just one of your photos is worth?


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## RauschPhotography (Feb 7, 2011)

KmH said:


> £20 is about $32.26.
> 
> How many photo's do you take in 1.5 hours and how many are on a disc?
> 
> ...



Then factor in editing time, as well... Can't forget about that.


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## gsgary (Feb 7, 2011)

KmH said:


> £20 is about $32.26.
> 
> How many photo's do you take in 1.5 hours and how many are on a disc?
> 
> ...



And minimum wage is higher over here


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## gsgary (Feb 7, 2011)

I did some dog portraits cheap the other week only made £200 in 2 hours


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## mwcfarms (Feb 7, 2011)

Did you post one of those gsgary? A terrier sort of looking dog?


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## KmH (Feb 7, 2011)

RauschPhotography said:


> KmH said:
> 
> 
> > £20 is about $32.26.
> ...


That's why I said "all your time", because it includes:

time spent with the customer scheduling the shoot.
travel time
pre-shoot preparation
the 1.5 hr shoot itself
time spent with the customer post shoot
edit prep time
edit time
burn to disc time
Ironically for a self-employed photographer, the majority of their time has to be spent on marketing if they want to have any hope of paying the bills.

So it's more beneficial if marketing and business management are your main interests, rather than photography. :thumbup:


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## gsgary (Feb 7, 2011)

mwcfarms said:


> Did you post one of those gsgary? A terrier sort of looking dog?



The one i posted was my dog Archie
1 dragonised


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## GeneralBenson (Feb 7, 2011)

To the OP. The short answer is, no, you're no. Just be blunt, not mean. Hnestly, I think there are some nice shots in there, and better than a lot of people who postulate that question. But it definitely doesn't look up to the quality that I would want to see from someone who is charging money. Most of it has already been said.

But here's the other thing. It looks like, and I think this already got clarified, that your subjects are all friends and family.  I think before anyone is ready to start charging, their portfolio should be completely devoid of f&f for two reasons. One, by that time, you should have enough experience to give you a large enough body of good work that you don't need to rely on f&f shots to have a large enough portfolio. While I'll admit that it's fine to have a shot mixed your portfolio of little nephew Jimmy, because it's just a fabulous shot, that's not most people. The majority of the time you see f&f in a portfolio, it's because tht person hasn't shot much else. 

Reason number two, is that having f&f in your port doesn't accurately display your true abilities. Because the reality is that it is much easier to work with your sister and cute little nephew Jimmy, than it is to work with woman you jus t met and her crazy kid who has never seen you before. So you take a bunch of great photos of people you've known for years, and then use them to lead people you've never met to think that our can do the same thing with their kids is falsification in my mind.

But here's the real answer to this question: I hate this question! I hate it because the question is never 'do you think I'm good?', or 'is my work up to a professional standard?' or 'have achieved a certain level of mastery of the craft?' or 'is my work inspiring or artistic?'. It's always basically, 'have I achieved the lowest possible level to which I can start charging money for barely passable work?' 

I fully understand that we all have to start somowhere, and that you have to s tart charging at some point. But it's the mental approach that i have a problem with. The root of this question is just a desire to be good enough, not to be great. A desire to successfully meet the status quo, not to surpass it. non one was ever great on accident, and no amount of trying to be good enough will ever cause you to be better than just that.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Feb 7, 2011)

Yur mean!

*:lmao:*

He's "offering very good quality photo shoots for very little money!"


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## olearris (Feb 8, 2011)

Charge, don't feel ur doing bad, ur have great potential just go all out


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## Nick Melson (Feb 8, 2011)

Thanks to those of of who who offered some advice; but I don't think there was any need for some of you to take the piss.
I'm not saying I'm an expert photographer by any means, but whenever I do photo shoots for favours, people always ask me why I don't charge for them. With me being skint at the minute, I started charging just to cover my petrol costs so it wasn't costing me out of pocket to do them. But after I made the Facebook page I had quite a lot of messages from people saying they were interested, and asking how much I charge. I don't think I can really be blamed for deciding to stick a £20 price on it when people are more than willing to pay.
I've done five paid for shoots so far, and I've got another six booked; plus loads another 10+ plus people who said they're definitely interested. All of the people I've done the shoots have been really happy with them, have recommended their family and friends and have said they'd like another shoot some time soon.
If people weren't too happy with the shoots I'd stop charging. But I don't see why I should stop now, when every shoot I do gives me loads of nice feedback.
Anyway, I know I'm not a professional by any means, but I'm aiming to get to that stage one day. Can anybody give me any tips or advice, like I asked in my OP, as to what specifically to improve on, and how to go about it. Also, do you have any recommendations on cheap studio kids or backdrops etc?


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## Bitter Jeweler (Feb 8, 2011)

Well, you answered your own question, which was the title of your post.

Besides, "every shoot I do gives me loads of nice feedback".
Well then run with it.
Browse the forums, look at other people asking about the same things you are as far as lighting set ups. Get books, search the net, there is tons of free info and video tutorials out there. 

But when you come here and ask for comments, don't be surprised if you don't get the glowing reviews your customers give you. Just sayin'.


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## NikWilliamson (Feb 11, 2011)

Do what I did, shoot friends for free, ask for referrals and charge 50$ at most so expectations aren't high. As your skill grows, increase your price. Nothing helps you learn and grow like practice and pressure.


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## fokker (Feb 11, 2011)

Your photos aren't up to scratch for charging top dollar, no, but hell if you can get 20 or 30 quid a time and learn as you go then why not, you'll improve every time and it sounds like you've got a bit of work lined up, so..... just keep on keepin on.


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## SupNY (Feb 17, 2011)

bigtwinky said:


> There is a difference between charging prices as a real photographer, and what most people do and charge peanuts for the work.  The peanuters are what is driving the photography market down.
> 
> Get your shots, lighting and post production down 100% and then start charging real prices.  You can still have lower end real prices.  But $40 for a session that includes all images on a CD?  Just do it for free while you learn.
> 
> In some cases, way under charging will come back to haunt you as you'll find that people know you are the cheap ass photographer, so raising your prices as your skill raises will have you lose pretty much all of your clients.



Great advice, listen to this man, he knows the score!


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## KmH (Feb 17, 2011)

NikWilliamson,

I've been meaning to ask: Who was standing on that guy's testicles when that avatar pic was taken? :raisedbrow:  

Or, is that supposed to be a smile?  :lmao:


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## Cinka (Feb 18, 2011)

Formatted said:


> Looks like your using the on camera flash which is a big no!


 
No necessarily. Depends on how you use it


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## Formatted (Feb 18, 2011)

> No necessarily. Depends on how you use it



Bit of flash very low *can *work well in some situations, but in those above they aren't working well!


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## RockDawg (Feb 19, 2011)

Nick Melson said:


> Thanks to those of of who who offered some advice; but I don't think there was any need for some of you to take the piss.
> I'm not saying I'm an expert photographer by any means, but whenever I do photo shoots for favours, people always ask me why I don't charge for them. With me being skint at the minute, I started charging just to cover my petrol costs so it wasn't costing me out of pocket to do them. But after I made the Facebook page I had quite a lot of messages from people saying they were interested, and asking how much I charge. I don't think I can really be blamed for deciding to stick a £20 price on it when people are more than willing to pay.
> I've done five paid for shoots so far, and I've got another six booked; plus loads another 10+ plus people who said they're definitely interested. All of the people I've done the shoots have been really happy with them, have recommended their family and friends and have said they'd like another shoot some time soon.
> If people weren't too happy with the shoots I'd stop charging. But I don't see why I should stop now, when every shoot I do gives me loads of nice feedback.
> Anyway, I know I'm not a professional by any means, but I'm aiming to get to that stage one day. Can anybody give me any tips or advice, like I asked in my OP, as to what specifically to improve on, and how to go about it. Also, do you have any recommendations on cheap studio kids or backdrops etc?



Why ask for opinions if you aren't ready to hear ones you don't like?  Sounds to me like you already made up your mind so why even bother to ask?  If you have people willing to pay and you want to do it, then go for it.  But as most have pointed out, you have a fair bit to learn.  That's not to say that your pictures aren't any good.  There's just room for improvement.  Your lighting definitely looks like on-camera flash and it's producing some really harsh shadows.  At least try bouncing the flash off a nearby ceiling or walls.  That alone can make a big difference and you don't even have to buy anything to do it.  Also, on the portraits, try to isolate your subject better.  Your portraits have little to no bokeh going on which is likely due to the lens you're using.  Are you shooting with a kit lens?  The distance between the camera and the subject and the subject and the background will also have an affect on bokeh.  Try playing around with that too.  Look at the work of others here on this site and compare it to your own.  Ask yourself what makes their's better.  That's' how you will learn and grow.  I'm basically a beginner too and most of my shots wouldn't garner a whole lot of praise amongst experienced photographers.  My family and friends, on the other hand, think most of my pictures are great and always tell me I'm too hard on myself.  While that's nice and all, they are still wrong.

If you want to make money, great sell to people who want to buy your photos, but if you want to grow and be a better photographer, learn to see what's wrong and embrace the critique of other experienced photographers.  You can learn a lot more from a critique than a pat on the back.


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## philsphoto (Feb 20, 2011)

I think you have an excellent eye, and are getting pictures that people would really like. I like how you fill the frame with your subject!   I think the flash photography needs a little work, the shadows are harsh.  A studio kit will work well, Alien Bees is what I use.  But may I also suggest that an external flash with a Rogue Flash Bender would improve your flash photography in a big way.  

Phil

San Antonio Wedding & Portrait Photography - Phil Photographer


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