# What is YOUR definition of a Professional Photographer?



## Mulewings~ (Jan 8, 2010)

I'd like to see what separates the Professional from all others in their own terms.

Is is because you [Professional Photographer] make your entire living off from it?
Or is a Professional one who makes limited income or is published?

Give a very clear answer.
Please?
Thanks.


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## boogschd (Jan 8, 2010)

for me ...

professional photographer = someone who makes a living out of photography


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## CSR Studio (Jan 8, 2010)

Makes their entire living from photography.


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## Mulewings~ (Jan 8, 2010)

Very good, this is exactly what I was asking for.


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## NateWagner (Jan 8, 2010)

NOOOOOOOoooooo!!!!!!!!!!! NOT ANOTHER THREAD ON THIS EXACT SAME TOPIC!!!!

Please just do a search, there are threads upon threads that go pages and pages and pages about this very topic.


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## beni_hung (Jan 8, 2010)

Someone who makes a good amount of money from photography. 

I say that because if someone has a day job, but is still doing weddings and what-not on the weekends, bringing in a few thousand a month, I think that a person like that would be considered a professional.


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## Mulewings~ (Jan 8, 2010)

NateWagner said:


> NOOOOOOOoooooo!!!!!!!!!!! NOT ANOTHER THREAD ON THIS EXACT SAME TOPIC!!!!
> 
> Please just do a search, there are threads upon threads that go pages and pages and pages about this very topic.



Sort of ... but not a direct question that asks for short precise non rambling answers:

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/photographic-discussions/182331-pro-vs-amateur.html

Simple and staying on the Thread Topic would be very nice.


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## NateWagner (Jan 8, 2010)

yeah, but that is where it will inevitably end up. 

By asking what is a professional, somebody will say something about how a pro is proficient and good at what he does, that there must be a standard of quality. Somebody else will then say, oh, but I have seen amateurs who provide better quality than "pros" 

and it will go from there, always does.


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## NateWagner (Jan 8, 2010)

as a side note, I think op's often have this odd thought that they actually have some sort of control over what happens in a thread. 

In this case, yes you did only ask for one specific answer, but... people won't follow it (as I haven't obviously)


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## Mulewings~ (Jan 8, 2010)

Thanks for pointing that out. 
I guess we can refer to the old post then and not continue.

I just asked for simple.


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## AlbertoDeRoma (Jan 8, 2010)

Mulewings~ said:


> I'd like to see what separates the Professional from all others in their own terms.
> 
> Is is because you [Professional Photographer] make your entire living off from it?
> Or is a Professional one who makes limited income or is published?
> ...



Here's a possible simple test: 

Q: Random guy at a party: "What's your *profession*?"  

A: Professional photographer: "I am a photographer."

A: Non professional photographer: "Import/export."

Simple enough for me.  Not that the particular label makes any difference.

Alberto


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## IgsEMT (Jan 8, 2010)

> Sort of ... but not a direct question that asks for short precise non rambling answers:
> 
> PRO vs. Amateur
> 
> Simple and staying on the Thread Topic would be very nice. 		 		  		  		 		  		 		 			 				__________________


saved me a search


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## Actor (Jan 8, 2010)

NateWagner said:


> NOOOOOOOoooooo!!!!!!!!!!! NOT ANOTHER THREAD ON THIS EXACT SAME TOPIC!!!!
> 
> Please just do a search, there are threads upon threads that go pages and pages and pages about this very topic.




With the exception of "C&C Please" threads, one could do an exhaustive search on any topic presented and, in 90% of cases, find another thread with a similar subject.
Search engines are a branch of artificial intelligence and, in general, they are crap.  The state of programming art (science?) has yet to produce a really good one.  One of the best appears to be Google and it's nothing to get excited about.  Trying to find an answer to any question on any forum by using its search engine, which is likely to be very primitive, is a futile exercise about half the time.  I sometimes have trouble finding my own posts with the TPF search engine.  Once you give up and start a thread you can still get nailed by a sharpshooter who points out that a similar thread already exists.
I submit that the primary purpose of this or any other forum is to foster a sense of camaraderie, rather than to slowly compile an exhaustive and non-redundant encyclopedia (that's the Wiki's job).  So what if there's an existing thread?  So what if it goes on for pages and pages?  If you went to a party and brought up the subject of, say _The Lord of the Rings_, you would not expect someone to say "We've already discussed that.  If you want everybody's opinion we can loan you the security tapes."  I say, "Keep the conversation going."  If you've lost interest, you don't have to read the thread.


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## KmH (Jan 8, 2010)

Actor said:


> With the exception of "C&C Please" threads, one could do an exhaustive search on any topic presented and, in 90% of cases, find another thread with a similar subject.
> I sometimes have trouble finding my own posts with the TPF search engine.


 Really? This is a piece-of-cake:


Click on *"Search"*
under "*Search Forums*", click on "*Advanced search*"
On the right find "Search By User Name"
Right under that select "*Find Posts By User*" *OR* "*Find Threads Started By User*"
Scroll down and click on "*Search Now*"
Voila! The Photo Forum - Photography Discussion Forum - Search Results All the threads you've posted in, but they're not in order. Here's all the threads you've started: The Photo Forum - Photography Discussion Forum - Search Results
Then there is a plethora of *Search Options* under all that and you can retrieve each one of your posts. The Photo Forum - Photography Discussion Forum - Search Results and do it ascending/decending order, and constrain the search to specific date ranges, blah, blah blah.......
You may not be most people....

The point is most people don't search: *Because they don't know how to search, can't be bothered to learn how to search,* *and/or expect the computer to just somehow read their minds and get what they want anyway.. *



Actor said:


> I submit that the primary purpose of this or any other forum is to foster a sense of camaraderie, rather than to slowly compile an exhaustive and non-redundant encyclopedia (that's the Wiki's job).


 I submit that the primary purpose of this or any other forum that has advertising is to make money for the forum owners.

Visitors see all the advertisements and out number members about 5 to 1 so *the Forum owners actually make money off those of us that generate their main content*.


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## NateWagner (Jan 8, 2010)

you're right they absolutely could. And doing so would save a great deal of the repetitive threads that are on here. 

The only reason I mentioned it though was because this sort of thread tends to get heavily debated and there is no reason for it to get started again. 

I said it, (and then he quickly found the particular thread I was thinking of so it must not be that hard) merely in the hopes of not having this argument propagating throughout this thread any more than it has to.


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## boogschd (Jan 9, 2010)

:/

offtopicness


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## Mulewings~ (Jan 9, 2010)

Mulewings~ said:


> I'd like to see what separates the Professional from all others in their own terms.
> 
> Is is because you [Professional Photographer] make your entire living off from it?
> Or is a Professional one who makes limited income or is published?
> ...



I guess I was asking for just simple short answers and mostly I did get what I felt was good info.
Pro means your derive your income from it.

This works for me.  I then am a seriously fun photographer who does it for enjoyment and an occasional publication.

Simply put?
I am not a Pro.

Thanks.
:hugs:


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## Actor (Jan 9, 2010)

KmH said:


> Actor said:
> 
> 
> > With the exception of "C&C Please" threads, one could do an exhaustive search on any topic presented and, in 90% of cases, find another thread with a similar subject.
> ...


Beside the point.  If I may be allowed a metaphor, I'm telling you the car does not run very fast and your response is to point out where the accelerator pedal is.  I say the car does not perform and you assume I need driving lessons.  Well I know where the accelerator is and I do not need driving lessons.  I'm saying the car will not win the Indy 500.

You're also misunderstanding what I meant by "finding my own posts."  I'm saying that I know for a fact I posted a comment with the word "discombobulated" in it but I can't find it.  The SE returns no hits.

Also, the fact that it's a "piece-of-cake" only reinforces what I'm saying.  For all its "advanced" features the search engine is not very sophisticated.   It's a simple word finder with no capability for logical searches, regular expressions or AI searches.  Probably took some programmer less than a day to write and debug it, assuming he did not simply copy it out of a textbook.


> Actor said:
> 
> 
> > I submit that the primary purpose of this or any other forum is to foster a sense of camaraderie, rather than to slowly compile an exhaustive and non-redundant encyclopedia (that's the Wiki's job).
> ...


Right.  And the primary purpose of a TV station or cable network is also to make money for their owners.  But the TV station's customers are the advertisers, not the viewers.  I don't watch TV for the commercials any more than I drive down the highway to read the billboards.  I watch TV to be entertained and to get me to watch their shows (and maybe their commercials) the TV station/network has to offer me the service for free or at a nominal price.  In the same vein I don't come here to read the ads; I come for the forum.


> Visitors see all the advertisements and out number members about 5 to 1 so *the Forum owners actually make money off those of us that generate their main content*.


And I say we should be paid for that content. :lmao:



NateWagner said:


> The only reason I mentioned it though was because this sort of thread tends to get heavily debated and there is no reason for it to get started again.


By that logic there's no need for Hollywood to make sequels, but they do.  Why?  To make money.  But nobody forces you to go see _Godfather II_ or _Rambo IV._

If "this sort of thread tends to get heavily debated" it's because members are interested.  If they are interested then they read, they post, maybe read the ads and the interests of the forum owners are served.

So let the individual forum member decide for himself whether he wants to read (and post) on a subject that's already been discussed.  That's called _freedom of choice_.  A rule that says you can't start a new thread on a subject that's already been discussed is called censorship.


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## Josh66 (Jan 9, 2010)

_MY_ definition of 'Professional Photographer' is someone who earns _most_ of their income with photography.


That doesn't necessarily mean that they're a _good_ photographer though..., and I think that's what causes a lot of confusion on this topic.  There's nothing bad about not being a 'pro'.


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## c.cloudwalker (Jan 9, 2010)

As O|||||||O says pro does not equal good. Pro and quality have nothing to do with each other.

Pro just means you get paid for your work. However little or much you get paid is irrelevant in my book but it can and will be debated forever...


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## chip (Jan 9, 2010)

I will start by saying that I am an *amateur* photographer. I take pictures for fun as a hobby and I don't make any money taking pictures. I always find it fascinating that so many folks find being a "professional photographer" as something glamorous, high paying, easy, and fun profession. There seems to be some mystique about this particular profession that are far for actuality. Some may have unrealistic concepts or expectations of what is truly a "professional photographer". Many people think that by being a "professional photographer", you must make a lot of money, you set your own hours and choose your work locations (think Hawaii), you take pictures of beautiful models, and you get to use the latest camera equipment. Wow what a dream job! Talk to people who are truly professional photographers you will get an entirely different picture. You may then wonder if you still wish to be a "professional photographer". When reality hits, most people probably would rather keep their day jobs than becoming a "professional photographer" making 25K a year working 60 hours a week using beat up old cameras.


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## Iron Flatline (Jan 9, 2010)

Someone who makes the majority of the living income from photography.


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## craig (Jan 9, 2010)

I judge photographers by their book.

Labels such as Professional, Hobbyist etc are lame and restrictive. Who cares? If you need to validate your professionalism join a professional organization.

Love & Bass


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## CW Jones (Jan 9, 2010)

I wouldn't say a professional is someone who makes money from it... I have made money from my photography... but I am NOT a professional.... there is a fine line to it because I don't think a professional is only someone who makes there ENTIRE living off of their photography... Its actually a tough question haha


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## Joves (Jan 9, 2010)

CW Jones said:


> I wouldn't say a professional is someone who makes money from it... I have made money from my photography... but I am NOT a professional.... there is a fine line to it because I don't think a professional is only someone who makes there ENTIRE living off of their photography... Its actually a tough question haha


 The ones who make only part of their income from photography would be semi-pro as where a pro makes all of their income from it. There can be different levels in professionalism.


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## usayit (Jan 9, 2010)

"What do you do for a living?"
"What is your profession?"

Are essentially the same question.

Therefore, profession == "do for a living".


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## JLEphoto (Jan 9, 2010)

One who makes the majority of their living taking photos.  Some pros still love what they do and some wish they had a different job....  It is all in how you look at what you do.  The deal is that being a proffesional anything is not easy and you can bet on some really bad days.  I still want to be a pro photographer but I know it has its ups and downs.  My issue is I am 36.  Time is running out on career changes.  Either way I will always be a photographer and that's all that matters to me.


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## manaheim (Jan 9, 2010)

Since we seem to have this thread pop up a lot and since it really doesn't matter what anyone says in response (Craig's response was very nice, IMO), I have decided that I'm going to change my answer every time it comes up from this point on.

So, today my opinion is that...

*A true professional uses only Nikon equipment, shoots everything with a 50mm 1.8 and is never caught without a rubber chicken hanging out of his crotch.*


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## Garbz (Jan 9, 2010)

What is a professional?

- A photographer who is being paid for the work they do?
- A photographer who has received formal training and has a diploma or degree in the art?
- How about a photographer who runs his business or is am amateur who treats other people with respect?

For me it's any of the above, depending on the situation, and I have used the word in every case. 

It's strange to see threads popping up about the "definition" of a professional. That's something that would probably best left to the Oxford English Dictionary, and not really to be determined by a bunch of random strangers on the internet.


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## manaheim (Jan 9, 2010)

Come on, man... you know it's all about the rubber chicken.


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## Actor (Jan 10, 2010)

A professional is 



anyone who can legitimately justify his expenditures on equipment and supplies as a business expense.  To put it another way, he files Schedule C (in the U.S.).  Note that this does not require him to make a living at it or to even make a profit.
anyone whose job title or job description includes the word "photographer" or "photography."
anyone who puts "photographer" on his 1040, 1040A or 1040EZ.
BTW are astronomers photographers?  Does the 200 inch Mt Polomar instrument count as a camera?

How about U2 pilots and SR-21 pilots?


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## manaheim (Jan 10, 2010)

Seriously, guys, this is a total waste of time.  Go look up professional in a dictionary and move on.  It's not nearly as complicated as many of you are making it out to be and all it eventually results in is people barking at each other.

Don't believe me?  Go do a search on it here and see the other 8,000 threads on this topic that occurred last year alone.


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## Mulewings~ (Jan 10, 2010)

Professional Definition | Definition of Professional at Dictionary.com

"noun 
  10. a person who belongs to one of the professions, esp. one of the learned professions. 

11. a person who earns a living in a sport or other occupation frequently engaged in by amateurs: a golf professional.      

12. an expert player, as of golf or tennis, serving as a teacher, consultant, performer, or contestant; pro.     

13. a person who is expert at his or her work: You can tell by her comments that this editor is a real professional."

Well I could've answered my own question.  According to several dictionaries this word being debated is not very cut and dry.
It is open to a lot of debate.

This question will probably be debated forever.
Thanks for your responses, they were very interesting to read.
Yes, I did ask...so I did read.


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## NateWagner (Jan 10, 2010)

@Manaheim: Exactly, I agree completely. 

@ Mulewings~: I think that typically people will choose one of those 4 definitions, and then argue with the others who choose one of those other 4 definitions.


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## inTempus (Jan 10, 2010)

It's all about the gear.  If you shoot a 1D or a D3, you're a pro.  If you shoot something less like a 5D, D700, 7D or D300, you're a semi-pro.  If you shoot anything under that, you're a soccer mom or a hobbyist.

If you shoot anything other than Canon or Nikon, you're a novice.

What did I win?


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## NateWagner (Jan 10, 2010)

a chocolate chip cookie, 3 oreo's and a slim jim.


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## craig (Jan 10, 2010)

inTempus said:


> It's all about the gear.  If you shoot a 1D or a D3, you're a pro.  If you shoot something less like a 5D, D700, 7D or D300, you're a semi-pro.  If you shoot anything under that, you're a soccer mom or a hobbyist.
> 
> If you shoot anything other than Canon or Nikon, you're a novice.
> 
> What did I win?



The rubber chicken award!!!!!!!!

At any rate thoughtful post Tempus. I would also add that quite simply; if your email address ends in @yahoo.com or whatever you are a hobbyist. No one will take you seriously. If your email ends in @___photo.com you are a pro and deserving of a rubber chicken.

Love & Bass


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## c.cloudwalker (Jan 10, 2010)

Probably will not end the argument but here's my stab at it:

If you're a Pro, you know it. If you have to ask, you most probably are not.

Now, send me that rubber chicken. Does it make good rubber soup?


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## Josh66 (Jan 10, 2010)

Don't forget the inflatable toast to go with the rubber chicken soup...


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## c.cloudwalker (Jan 10, 2010)

O|||||||O said:


> Don't forget the inflatable toast to go with the rubber chicken soup...



:thumbup:


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## manaheim (Jan 10, 2010)

*Manaheim envisions a new craze of pro photographers running around at weddings and sporting events with rubber chickens hanging out of their pants.*


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## usayit (Jan 10, 2010)

So that's all that I needed to look more professional??  A rubber chicken?  Damn.. I thought a big camera and a lens the size of my leg was good enough.  

Do you think BH carries them?


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## usayit (Jan 10, 2010)

inTempus said:


> If you shoot anything other than Canon or Nikon, you're a novice.
> What did I win?



Man.. you described me just perfectly... I shoot with Leica.   

Its so much easier to pretend to be a novice than it is to pretend to be professional.


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## manaheim (Jan 10, 2010)

Does my D100 detract from the status that my D300 grants me?  Like is there some sort of cumulative effect?  Or perhaps a least worst multiplier of some kind?  I'm trying to figure out my score.

ooo... actually a scoring system here would totally rock.


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## DennyCrane (Jan 10, 2010)

Very few forums run in the black. Most are paid for by the site owner who rarely breaks even. Those are purely for the discussion of their hobby, sport, profession, etc. That said, I'm sure this one is making cash. And a way to keep an influx of new forum visitors is to have more width than depth. This means more threads with less posts than a few posts that are hundreds of pages long. This helps the odds of the site coming up on any particular Google search. And more site traffic means more advertisers clicked, more Ad Sense Google ads clicked, more paid memberships, etc.


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## Actor (Jan 10, 2010)

Mulewings~ said:


> Professional Definition | Definition of Professional at Dictionary.com
> 
> "noun
> 10. a person who belongs to one of the professions, esp. one of the learned professions.



Within the original meaning of the word (one who professes, or makes claim to, special knowledge or skill) there were only three professions:


Medicine.
The Clergy.
The Military.
Everyone else just worked for a living.


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## c.cloudwalker (Jan 10, 2010)

Actor said:


> Mulewings~ said:
> 
> 
> > Professional Definition | Definition of Professional at Dictionary.com
> ...



Well, now I know why we are in such serious trouble. :lmao:


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## STOFFEL (Jan 11, 2010)

I would say that someone that earns enough to live from photography would be professional, a professional is a person in a profession that requires certain types of skilled work requiring formal training or education. In western nations, such as the United States.


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## Joves (Jan 11, 2010)

Actor said:


> BTW are astronomers photographers? Does the 200 inch Mt Polomar instrument count as a camera?


 
Why yes some are. The Palomar is just a big mirror lens.


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## DennyCrane (Jan 11, 2010)

If I were forced to make a definition, I'd say if you earn more than half of your income doing a particular thing... be it selling pictures or being employed as a photographer, or painting pictures, or building computers for sale... you're a professional in your chosen field.

It gets gray when you look at a great picture and can say "That's a professional picture!" or had an amateur friend take pictures at Gramma and Grampa's 50th anniversary and people said "He was SO professional!". It can mean a lot of things.


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## mrdemin (Jan 11, 2010)

I would say a pro photographer is one that makes money off of it... I also think anyone that can take wonderful pictures but does it as a hobby for himself is professional (very good) AT photography.


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## manaheim (Jan 11, 2010)

Guys...


Anyone who comes up with "their interpretation"... or "their definition"... whether explicit or implied... don't you see?  This is just what it is... your opinion... your interpretation.

It's meaningless.  Either we have an accepted definition for something, or we don't.  If we don't, then we have all this meaningless bickering over something that really has zero meaning and just leads to other people being offended because by your definition they didn't land into the particular bucket where they wanted to be.

WHY anyone gets upset over what some other random person on the net says about their qualifications based upon some defintion is beyond me, but that aside...

Please, everyone... drop this.


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## usayit (Jan 11, 2010)

Ask Noah... 

Noah Webster that is...


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## bennielou (Sep 21, 2011)

Cloud and Manaheim, I'm going to completely start shooting weddings with a rubber chicken.    I'll send pics.


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## manaheim (Sep 21, 2011)

bennielou said:


> Cloud and Manaheim, I'm going to completely start shooting weddings with a rubber chicken.  I'll send pics.



That sounds VERY professional.


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## kkamin (Sep 28, 2011)

I think it's a valid question that requires contemplation. There are commercial photography guilds that require a certain amount of your income to come from your photography profession in order to qualify, along with quality work and business ethics. I think the standard is that more than 50% of your income comes from photography. Does that mean you are good? No. Do people who make no money take better pictures than 'professionals'? Yes, sometimes.

But I think there is credit to be given to someone who is placing a substantial amount of their time and resources into an occupation and a professional practice.


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## Forkie (Sep 28, 2011)

I don't believe it is just someone who makes their living selling their photographs.  I think that someone also needs to be considered an "expert" in their field to be a professional.


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## Kerbouchard (Sep 28, 2011)

My definition would be a bit more mundane...

A business license, a tax ID, insurance, and paying clients makes one a professional photographer.

A pharmacist and a drug dealer both sell drugs.  One is a professional.  The other is a criminal.


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## 12sndsgood (Sep 28, 2011)

im searching for a rubber chicken.  i at least want to look professional even if im not.


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## bazooka (Sep 28, 2011)

Are we talking about professional noun, or professional adjective?  Because there are professionals who aren't professional and amateurs/hobbyists who are....   And Rubber Chicken ftw.


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## imagemaker46 (Sep 28, 2011)

I define myself as a professional, have been for 35 years. I earn all my income from photography. I treat clients with respect, and always in a professional manner, I produce high quality images consistantly, pay taxes  based on earned income from photography.


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## manaheim (Sep 28, 2011)

professional=paid.

period.

sell a picture for $1 and you're a pro.


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## usayit (Sep 28, 2011)

manaheim said:


> professional=paid.
> 
> period.
> 
> sell a picture for $1 and you're a pro.



Yup...  nothing to do with the quality of work.... just simply getting paid.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Feb 2, 2012)

Where's imagemaker46 been?


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## manaheim (Feb 3, 2012)

Bitter!!!!  What have you done??!?!


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## Vtec44 (Feb 3, 2012)

You have the skills to _consistently_ produce properly exposed, well focused, nicely composed photographs and get paid for doing it.  

Darn it, just noticed the time stamp....


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## Bitter Jeweler (Feb 4, 2012)

manaheim said:


> Bitter!!!!  What have you done??!?!


It was related to another topic that was up top, so I bumped it.


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## Robin Usagani (Feb 4, 2012)

Not sure.. hoping to be one some day.


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## SCraig (Feb 4, 2012)

Very simply, one who gets the job done on time, with the expected results, at a reasonable price, and no excuses.  Anything less in unacceptable.


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## Tee (Feb 4, 2012)

A paid person who produces consistent pleasing images (yeah- subjective, I know).


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## TMichael (Feb 4, 2012)

Schwettylens said:


> Not sure.. hoping to be one some day.



Oh, I'm new around here and have been lurking. I thought you were a "pro", because I see all your pictures posted in the "professional" area here. Plus I noticed that you're usually one of the first to respond with c+c to new post.


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## Robin Usagani (Feb 4, 2012)

TMichael said:


> Schwettylens said:
> 
> 
> > Not sure.. hoping to be one some day.
> ...



Semi Pro.  I dont C+C that much anymore.


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## MSnowy (Feb 4, 2012)

Schwettylens said:


> TMichael said:
> 
> 
> > Schwettylens said:
> ...



Does this mean you only charge half price? Maybe they should add a semi-pro section to TPF. Ha ha


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## jamesbjenkins (Feb 4, 2012)

By definition, a "professional" in any field is one who undertakes a specialized task and completes it for monetary compensation.  A professional photographer is exactly the same.  In my definition, if you are hired by clients to take pictures for them, and are paid money to do it, you are a professional photographer.  However, since there are so people who are part-time professional photographers, and full-time professionals in some other industry, I've always used the terms, "semi-pro" to denote those people who are paid shooters for a client, but don't do it full-time...yet (I would fall into that category), and "full-time pro" to denote those who make their full living off of their photography work.

Both types of people can rightfully call themselves professional photographers.  The only purposes for trying to limit the definition to only full-time pros are either arrogance, self-promotion or (worse) a desire to deprive people of a title they're rightfully earned by being paid for their work.


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## analog.universe (Feb 4, 2012)

I think if you make any money doing photography then you're a pro...   You can be an artist and not a pro, or a pro and not an artist, or both, or neither.

Most important however is that none of these definitions mean anything at all.

Click shutter -> Be happy!


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## SCraig (Feb 4, 2012)

analog.universe said:


> I think if you make any money doing photography then you're a pro...


I got paid for shooting a wedding about 30 years ago.  Does that make me a professional today?  If the strictly monetary definition is used then it does since I **DID** get paid for my efforts.  Bottom line: That definition doesn't work.


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## analog.universe (Feb 4, 2012)

SCraig said:


> analog.universe said:
> 
> 
> > I think if you make any money doing photography then you're a pro...
> ...



If you're making money today then you're a pro today.  If you made money 30 years ago then you WERE a pro 30 years ago.

Also this argument is meaningless and silly


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## SCraig (Feb 4, 2012)

analog.universe said:


> If you're making money today then you're a pro today.  If you made money 30 years ago then you WERE a pro 30 years ago.
> 
> Also this argument is meaningless and silly


I was not a professional photographer, I was the only one who happened to be available.  The groom was my friend, and they couldn't get anyone else on short notice.  They did pay me something though, $100 or so.  Unless there is a time limit or expiration date or something then since I did "Make money at photography" at one point then by that strict monetary definition I "Am" a professional photographer.

To be a true professional at ANYTHING, regardless of the strict definition, there has to be more than just being paid for one's efforts.  That's my point.


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## manaheim (Feb 5, 2012)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> manaheim said:
> 
> 
> > Bitter!!!! What have you done??!?!
> ...



omfg you should be SO banned.


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## manaheim (Feb 5, 2012)

SCraig said:


> analog.universe said:
> 
> 
> > I think if you make any money doing photography then you're a pro...
> ...



Yes, it does.  A retired one with a very brief career, but a professional nonetheless.

People please...

This topic has been debated ad-nauseum on this forum since the dawn of time.  There is one and only one answer... it is the same answer as all other professions... professionals are payed, amateurs are not.

Any other definition leads to matters of opinion, and there cannot be matters of opinion in a standard or definition.  Otherwise, I could just as easily argue that a professional is someone who has a parrot on their shoulder as you could that they are people who "appeal to a certain higher standard" or whatever.

Pros...
are...
PAID.

End of discussion.


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## MSnowy (Feb 5, 2012)

End of discussion.[/QUOTE]

Funny thing is it had gone away for 24hrs  but you brought it up again. Let the debate continue.


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## spacefuzz (Feb 5, 2012)

To add fuel to the debate...

In engineering to become a professional engineer you need to earn a degree, then pass a fundamentals of engineering test, then work under an accredited professional for several years, then pass another test. Otherwise you can't call yourself a professional engineer. 

Perhaps photography needs a pro test from PSA.....


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## pgriz (Feb 5, 2012)

If I get paid doing photography, then I am a professional.  Not necessarily a good professional, or even a professional (adjective) professional (noun), but a professional nonetheless.  But really, so what?  It does not confer on anyone who is a professional any special priviledges or even abilities.  So the arguements get a little pointless.


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## manaheim (Feb 5, 2012)

MSnowy said:
			
		

> End of discussion.



Funny thing is it had gone away for 24hrs  but you brought it up again. Let the debate continue.[/QUOTE]

Damnit.  Did I?  Lol. Should have checked the time.

Well now to save face I'll have to keep bumping it.


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## Overread (Feb 5, 2012)

Professionals don't post in threads like this == amateurs do.


*ruffles feathers of annoying people that bump old threads!!!*


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## Bitter Jeweler (Feb 5, 2012)

As if this question would never be asked again...


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## thepaulreid (Feb 12, 2012)

I define it as a photographer who takes photos for money and it is his main source of income. It does not relate directly to how good the photographer is, although may do indirectly.


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## EIngerson (Feb 12, 2012)

You're not a pro until you have 1,000 likes.


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