# macro - depth of field question



## NY Ron (Oct 10, 2009)

If one were to put together the "ideal" setup, what would the components be that would allow for the greatest DOF in macro shooting?

For example, let's say the goal was to take a pic of a rose with the max DOF generally available - - what equipment and setup would be best?

By ideal, I guess I mean within the realm of normal dSLR's (Nikon, Canon under $5000) and reasonably normal lenses for those bodies (say lenses that cost under $5000 as well).

What body/lens/lighting and other equipment, and how to set them up, would produce the greatest DOF, and therefore sharpest possible macro pic?

Hope this question makes sense.

thanks


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## Derrel (Oct 10, 2009)

A macro lens that has forward tilting ability,allowing you to use the Scheimpflug principle, would produce *the* most depth of field on a d-slr or 35mm SLR camera. Nikon makes a new 24mm,45mm and 85mm PC-E lenses and an older 85mm PC, with the non-electronically actuated lens diaphragm, but instead a manual,mechanical pluger actuated diaphragm system.

Rob Galbraith DPI: Nikon unveils new 45mm, 85mm perspective control lenses

Canon also has a nice,spiffy new 45mm and 90mm TS-E lens that can do the same thing.

Other alternatives include the Zörk Pro Shift Adapter seen here
Zörk Pro Shift adapter

or a bellows with a tilting front standard.


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## NY Ron (Oct 10, 2009)

Derrel said:


> A macro lens that has forward tilting ability,allowing you to use the Scheimpflug principle, would produce *the* most depth of field on a d-slr or 35mm SLR camera. Nikon makes a new 24mm,45mm and 85mm PC-E lenses and an older 85mm PC, with the non-electronically actuated lens diaphragm, but instead a manual,mechanical pluger actuated diaphragm system.
> 
> Rob Galbraith DPI: Nikon unveils new 45mm, 85mm perspective control lenses
> 
> ...



thanks - - just what I was looking for


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## Overread (Oct 10, 2009)

The tilt shift lenses are certainly one of the best ways to get the best depth of field control in a macro shot in a single exposure - there are also tilt shift bellows that you can get as well, which do the same thing but with a bellows assembly - so ok with older lenses with a manual aperture ring, on canon (modern) lenses with the closed aperture trick or you can use a set of bellows contacts from a company like Nonoflex (basically a ring with contacts which connects to each end of the bellows and has a cable for the contacts to run between the two). 

Anyways - another tactic, which is especailly effective on static subects like flowers and cold insects (yes it works on bugs too when they are cold from a sudden rainstorm or in the early part of the day) is focus stacking. That is taking a series of shots of the subject and keeping the focus point static, but moving the camera (best is via a focusing rail on a tripod though handheld is possible, but tricky) closer for each shot - so that in the end you get a series of shots which cover the whole depth of field of the subject (make sure there is a little overlap with the previous shots depth of field for each shot) and you can then use some free software like Combine ZP to stack the shots into a single composite image. 
You can do this manually as well, but it takes a long time and one bonus of using the software method is that (aside from being a lot quicker) it will also reduce your shot noise whilst also boosting the sharpness in the shot.


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## NY Ron (Oct 10, 2009)

Overread said:


> The tilt shift lenses are certainly one of the best ways to get the best depth of field control in a macro shot in a single exposure - there are also tilt shift bellows that you can get as well, which do the same thing but with a bellows assembly - so ok with older lenses with a manual aperture ring, on canon (modern) lenses with the closed aperture trick or you can use a set of bellows contacts from a company like Nonoflex (basically a ring with contacts which connects to each end of the bellows and has a cable for the contacts to run between the two).
> 
> Anyways - another tactic, which is especailly effective on static subects like flowers and cold insects (yes it works on bugs too when they are cold from a sudden rainstorm or in the early part of the day) is focus stacking. That is taking a series of shots of the subject and keeping the focus point static, but moving the camera (best is via a focusing rail on a tripod though handheld is possible, but tricky) closer for each shot - so that in the end you get a series of shots which cover the whole depth of field of the subject (make sure there is a little overlap with the previous shots depth of field for each shot) and you can then use some free software like Combine ZP to stack the shots into a single composite image.
> You can do this manually as well, but it takes a long time and one bonus of using the software method is that (aside from being a lot quicker) it will also reduce your shot noise whilst also boosting the sharpness in the shot.



Wow - - very interesting.  I'll have to think about/research this some more.  thanks


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## Overread (Oct 10, 2009)

just spotted something (along with the fact that Derral did mention the bellows tiltshifts) is that the tilt shift lenses are not macro standard lenses. So to get proper macro results out of them you will need to use them with a set of tubes or bellows. I prefer tubes over bellows in general as they have the electrical contacts if you get a good set like Kenko AF tubes - note that some tubes are very cheap (5$/£) but they lack the contacts which allow communication between lens and camera.


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## Dwig (Oct 10, 2009)

NY Ron said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> > A macro lens that has forward tilting ability,allowing you to use the Scheimpflug principle, ...
> ...



Keep in mind, though, that this technique _*does not increase*_ DOF at all. What it does is make the best use of what limited DOF is present. By tilting the plane of best focus properly you don't waste DOF on the unimportant parts of the image. It can be a great help with some images and no help at all with others.


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## Derrel (Oct 11, 2009)

Here is a review of the 85mm f/2.8 PC Micro-Nikkor
85 mm f/2.8 PC Micro-Nikkor

This lens is a Micro-Nikkor, meaning it is supremely corrected for near-range, flat-field work, and it will focus down to approximately 1.3 feet and achieve 1:2 or half life-sized images without need of filters or extension tubes. This lens has a soft-action,plunger-operated lens diaphragm and a manual aperture ring like all Nikon D-series lenses. This is a manually focusing lens, but it is a D-series. Because of all these attributes THIS SPECIFIC lens will easily adapt to Canon EOS bodies and will function quit well on both Nikon or Canon bodies. This lenses was readily available on the used market at around $1,000 to $1150 the last time I checked.

The "new" 85mm f/2.8 PC-E Micro~Nikkor is also a true macro lens, optimized for a perfectly flat image field and optimized for close-range work, at 1:2 or half life-sized, but this lens has E for Electronically-controlled diaphragm actuation, and is thus only usable on modern Nikon bodies. It retails for about $1777 here 2175 Nikon PC-E Micro NIKKOR 85mm f/2.8D manual Focus Lens with 5 Year U.S.A. Warranty


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## NY Ron (Oct 11, 2009)

Derrel said:


> Here is a review of the 85mm f/2.8 PC Micro-Nikkor
> 85 mm f/2.8 PC Micro-Nikkor
> 
> This lens is a Micro-Nikkor, meaning it is supremely corrected for near-range, flat-field work, and it will focus down to approximately 1.3 feet and achieve 1:2 or half life-sized images without need of filters or extension tubes. This lens has a soft-action,plunger-operated lens diaphragm and a manual aperture ring like all Nikon D-series lenses. This is a manually focusing lens, but it is a D-series. Because of all these attributes THIS SPECIFIC lens will easily adapt to Canon EOS bodies and will function quit well on both Nikon or Canon bodies. This lenses was readily available on the used market at around $1,000 to $1150 the last time I checked.
> ...



Thanks so much. All of this technology is really interesting.

Any thoughts on how this lens would perform on a crop frame camera (e.g. D90) vs full frame camera (e.g., D700) all else equal??

Separately, any idea how this lens would do on studio portrait work (i.e., could the cost of this lens be amortized over good people shooting as well)??

Finally, I wonder what one could do with this lens plus focus stacking. . .


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## Derrel (Oct 11, 2009)

This page has good reviews of both the older and newer 85 PC Micro~Nikkor lenses   Special Lenses For Nikon 'F' Mount

The performance of these lenses is excellent on both FF and DX. I would prefer an autofocusing, auto-diaphragm 85mm f/1.4 of f/1.8 for portraiture. Focus stacking is for totally static, unmoving subjects, and I never shoot anything like that, so to me I'e never felt the need to even try focus stacking. I would not count on using either of these specialty 85mm Micro~Nikkor lenses for people photography uses.


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## Overread (Oct 12, 2009)

Derrel said:


> Focus stacking is for totally static, unmoving subjects, and I never shoot anything like that, so to me I'e never felt the need to even try focus stacking.



I'm certainly going to agree that one needs a static subject - and heck a sercure (tripod and focusing rail) camera are ideal as well for focus stacking. But one thing to keep in mind is landscapes as well - something that I have seen a few times is when there are 2 distinct zones of focus in a shot - a good example is a wall with a window. The first shot on the wall and the second focused on the vista through the window - just 2 stacked shots, but a very effective use of the method.


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## Buckster (Oct 12, 2009)

Here's a stacked focus shot I was playing around with a while back:







Notice that the eyes and gun are in focus (more like the ears and gun, but ya know...  ), but the elbows between those two focus areas are not, which is the 'evidence' that it's not a conventional, single-shot photo.  Just thought it was interesting to play with...


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## jaharris1001 (Oct 13, 2009)

well,, I'm a Canon shooter, so for me it would start off with this new macro lens, its got "L" glass AND Image Stabilization, state of the art lens here !! then the twin lites
Canon EF 100mm f2.8 L IS USM
Canon MT-24EX Macro Twin Lite 
Canon 50D


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