# HS football.



## ronlane (Oct 15, 2018)

Just a couple from Friday night highschool action.

1) Over the shoulder catch for a TD. Canon 1D mk IV, 70-200mm f/2.8, f/2.8, 200mm, 1/1000, ISO 12800.


 

2) This one was cool. As I knelt down to get a good prospective of this play, one of the Coaches turns to me and says, "look out, coming your way." (Note: the kid forgot to squeeze the ball and dropped it). Canon 1D mk IV, 70-200mm f/2.8, f/2.8, 155mm, 1/1000, ISO 12800.


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## Jeff15 (Oct 15, 2018)

Very good action shots....


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## ronlane (Oct 15, 2018)

Thanks Jeff.


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## tirediron (Oct 15, 2018)

Nice timing on #2!!!!


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## ac12 (Oct 15, 2018)

I got one similar, where the receiver did not get the ball.
Boy the coach was POed at the receiver.  Something about his glove, and ripped it off the kids hands.


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## ronlane (Oct 16, 2018)

tirediron said:


> Nice timing on #2!!!!



Thank you.



ac12 said:


> I got one similar, where the receiver did not get the ball.
> Boy the coach was POed at the receiver.  Something about his glove, and ripped it off the kids hands.



Yeah, after this play, I turned to thank the coach and said to him, "he needed to squeeze that one." The coach shook his head in agreement and had a disgusted look on his face.


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## ac12 (Nov 10, 2018)

Ron,
I would like to get your advice on exposure.
My HS field has uneven lighting.  Only 2 light poles on each side of the field.  So the 10-15 yards from the goal line is about -1 EV from the center of the field, and the corners are -2 EV from the center.
The problem situation is, the TD runs are many times down the sideline into the -2 EV corners.      And I am shooting across width of the field.

My standard setup is full manual or Center Weight.
The CW setup is AF=single point, 1 high from center.  This forces the camera to meter the field, rather than the black/dark background, which would overexpose the players.  
This generally works, except for when they do that TD run down the sideline into the dark corner.  The meter reads the bright field between me and the player, and underexposes the player by about 2 stops.  The compounding problem is shooting flat across the field, I can't meter the field in the corners very well.  I end up metering the field well away from the player, in the brighter part of the field.

The only thing that I can think of is to shoot full manual and ride the shutter speed with my thumb to give me more exposure into the corner.
I can't ride the ISO (I think) as that requires me to also use my shutter finger, which is busy on the shutter release.  Has to be thumb only.

Any thoughts on what I might try.

Thanks.


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## Fujidave (Nov 10, 2018)

Well taken shots, liking #2 the most very well timed.


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## Scoody (Nov 10, 2018)

High School football is a huge money maker for me.  The school I cover did not make the playoffs so last night was the last game of the season.  I get a lot of great shots because I know this team inside and out.  I attend their practices.  Talk to the kids.  I am as familiar with their tendencies and playbook as any of the coaches.  It helps with my shots because I do not have to chase the play for a shot, I wait for the shot to come to me.  What actually sells the most for me are not so much the action shots but the shots before or after the play.  The celebration of a big pass play or saving tackle.  One of my best ones was of a kid, a cornerback who had been burned badly on a previous play for a TD.  He had been getting some safety help after that but on this particular play the halfback lined up in the slot and then went in motion, taking the safety with him.  The kid who got burned found himself one on one with the reciever who burned him.  I got a shot right before the snap of the ball, it was pretty much a close up.  You could see the fear in his eyes.   The kid got smoked for a touchdown again on that play.  The receiver (who actually went to state in the high hurdles) was way too fast for him.

A couple of years ago I got a Texas sports journalism award for a shot of a player coming off the field for the last time of his high school career and reaching out to his family in the stands.  It was quite an emotional shot and the photo told quite a story.


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## ac12 (Nov 10, 2018)

Scoody said:


> High School football is a huge money maker for me.



I wish it could be for me, to help pay for gear.
But in my position as the external yearbook photo advisor, I cannot charge/make money off the pictures of the students.
So what does not go into the yearbook gets given to the AD and coaches.

I agree about the after play shots.  I've been getting much more of that this year, capturing the emotions of a score/goal.
Last year I was too clinical and just shooting the game.


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## Scoody (Nov 10, 2018)

ac12 said:


> I wish it could be for me, to help pay for gear.
> But in my position as the external yearbook photo advisor, I cannot charge/make money off the pictures of the students.
> So what does not go into the yearbook gets given to the AD and coaches.



I got into this through the boosters and shooting the team and individual photos at the beginning of the year.  They got me a sideline pass for the first year.  I got press credentials the next year so I didn't have to go through them.  I shoot five games a week, 7th and 8th grade, freshmen, JV and Varsity.  Make about $300 a game off of the non-varsity games, $500 off of the Varsity games.


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## ronlane (Nov 10, 2018)

ac12 said:


> Ron,
> I would like to get your advice on exposure.
> My HS field has uneven lighting.  Only 2 light poles on each side of the field.  So the 10-15 yards from the goal line is about -1 EV from the center of the field, and the corners are -2 EV from the center.
> The problem situation is, the TD runs are many times down the sideline into the -2 EV corners.      And I am shooting across width of the field.
> ...



Sorry about the late reply, I have been out shooting a college game today and am just now getting to look at this site.

You are pretty much doing the same thing I do. You might try using manual with auto ISO so that the camera will adjust with you. I do this on a lot of occasions and use about +1/3 exposure compensation. Unfortunately dark corners are the norm in highschool football.

Don't be tempted to slow down your shutter speed to below 1/800, you want to minimize motion blur as much as possible.



Fujidave said:


> Well taken shots, liking #2 the most very well timed.



Thanks.


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## ac12 (Nov 10, 2018)

ronlane said:


> ac12 said:
> 
> 
> > Ron,
> ...



Dang, on Manual, I'm at 1/500 sec.
The only option left is to figure out how to easily raise the ISO.
More tinkering to do.


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## ac12 (Nov 10, 2018)

Dang,
Adjusting EC and ISO are both shutter finger + thumb actions.
So I can't do either on the fly as I am shooting.

All I can think of is, shoot in M, then with my thumb drop the ss to 1/250 (from 1/500).  That brings me 1 stop better, and the corner is only -1 stop rather than -2 stops.


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## ronlane (Nov 10, 2018)

ac12 said:


> Dang,
> Adjusting EC and ISO are both shutter finger + thumb actions.
> So I can't do either on the fly as I am shooting.
> 
> All I can think of is, shoot in M, then with my thumb drop the ss to 1/250 (from 1/500).  That brings me 1 stop better, and the corner is only -1 stop rather than -2 stops.



Using auto ISO there is no using your thumb to adjust. Using exposure comp, you can set that before the play and go from there.
1/250 and 1/500 are to slow of shutter speeds for football.


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## ac12 (Nov 10, 2018)

ronlane said:


> ac12 said:
> 
> 
> > Dang,
> ...



hmmm, I have to try auto-ISO in manual model, never did that option.

My normal manual exposure is 1/500 @ f/4 (wide open) at ISO=6400.  So I am pushing it, without going up to ISO 12800.
My results seems to be that 1/500 is OK.  Maybe my guys are slower than yours.
But I agree 1/250 would be too slow, and I would probably get motion blur.


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## ronlane (Nov 11, 2018)

@ac12, The f/4 is causing you the issues, you really need f/2.8 glass. What body are you shooting with?

I have a friend that shoots a D3 with a 300mm f/4 for highschool sports but even with the D3, he struggles with it. Honestly, for night time football, I'd rather shoot with a 70-200mm f/2.8 than anything with a higher aperture.

As for the kids being faster? Not sure, I shoot Top class in Oklahoma and college football.


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## ac12 (Nov 11, 2018)

Yes I know I should be using a f/2.8 lens, and would love to, but being an old man, I had to draw the line on the weight.  While I could use a f/2.8 on a monopod during the game, I still have to carry the kit from my car to the field, and go up/down the sideline, so mobility won.

I'm shooting with a Nikon D7200.

I think your kids ARE faster than mine.


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## ronlane (Nov 13, 2018)

ac12 said:


> Yes I know I should be using a f/2.8 lens, and would love to, but being an old man, I had to draw the line on the weight.  While I could use a f/2.8 on a monopod during the game, I still have to carry the kit from my car to the field, and go up/down the sideline, so mobility won.
> 
> I'm shooting with a Nikon D7200.
> 
> I think your kids ARE faster than mine.



Honestly I find that with a 300mm f/2.8, I don't travel up and down the sideline like I do when shooting with a 70-200mm f/2.8. I know it sounds funny being only 100mm difference but something about it, I just don't move as much. If there were enough light in HS stadiums, I'd love to use the 300mm f/2.8 and a 1.4x TC and shoot from the endzones and not move.


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## Scoody (Nov 13, 2018)

ac12 said:


> I would like to get your advice on exposure.
> My HS field has uneven lighting. Only 2 light poles on each side of the field. So the 10-15 yards from the goal line is about -1 EV from the center of the field, and the corners are -2 EV from the center.
> The problem situation is, the TD runs are many times down the sideline into the -2 EV corners.  And I am shooting across width of the field.



My problem is that the games start before dusk at the beginning of the season and the light is constantly changing and I have to adjust my aperture and ISO as I go.  Some of the photographers that have only f/4 glass only shoot until halftime.  Luckily my 2.8 Tamron lets me shoot the whole game.


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## ronlane (Nov 13, 2018)

Scoody said:


> ac12 said:
> 
> 
> > I would like to get your advice on exposure.
> ...



That is a big reason that I like to use Auto ISO with exposure compensation. Then I can set the shutter to 1/1000 and the f-stop to f/2.8 and start shooting before during and after golden hour and blue hour.

This is not a technique that I have come up with myself. It comes from spending a ton of time reading and watching videos from other sports photographers.

It's also goes with a LOT of practice shooting. I have shot 23 high school and college football games this year and may get to 25 before the year is over.


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## ac12 (Nov 13, 2018)

ronlane said:


> ac12 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes I know I should be using a f/2.8 lens, and would love to, but being an old man, I had to draw the line on the weight.  While I could use a f/2.8 on a monopod during the game, I still have to carry the kit from my car to the field, and go up/down the sideline, so mobility won.
> ...



hmm
Some ideas to record and try next year.

Well because of the extra reach of the 300 you don't have to get as close.  But also the extra reach lets you do a different perspective that would be difficult with a shorter lens.  
I used to shoot with an 18-140 about 15 yards in front of the line of scrimmage.  Now with the 70-200, I am 40-50 yards in front.  Very different perspective than what I used to do.  And I like it.

We have a 70-300 that I can try during the JV game, while the sun is still out.
Or I can go crazy with my 75-300 on my micro 4/3 camera, similar to a 600mm on a FF camera.  

Interestingly, last year I started shooting soccer from behind the end zone.  I liked the head on attack view.  
That is, as long as the refs are OK with me back there.


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## ronlane (Nov 13, 2018)

@ac12 - I shoot about 20-30 yards in front of the offense and about 15 yards behind the offense (for some defense shots) with a 70-200mm on friday nights since I have bought a 300 f/2.8 yet. (Next on my list).

The nice thing about a 300 from 50+ yards is the perspective you get if you kneel or even are sitting down.

Here is a college shot from the end zone with a 300mm f/2.8 and a 1D mk IV from over 50 yards away and then cropped. I get that these are in day time lighting but the perspective is what I'm pointing at with these.

I'm sitting in the opposite end zone and they are close to the 30 yard line.






I believe he is at about the 50 yard line.


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## ac12 (Nov 13, 2018)

Scoody said:


> ac12 said:
> 
> 
> > I would like to get your advice on exposure.
> ...



@Scoody 
All depends on the lighting.
I shoot a f/4 lens into the night.  ISO=6400, 1/500 sec, f/4.
My players are not as fast as Ron's, so I can get away with 1/500 sec.
What I would give to shoot day games, where I have plenty of light.​I shoot either CW meter or manual.
CW allows the camera to adjust for changing afternoon to dusk lighting.  
But I have to trick the camera, as I don't want the camera to meter the dark background and overexpose the players.
I set the AF to single point +1 above center, metering to CW.  This way the camera is metering the ground below/in front of the player, rather than the dark/black background.  Except for the corners of the field, where I have my problem, it generally works.
The problem is, the flatter the shot, the camera sees less ground in front of the player.  Instead it sees the brighter ground mid-field.  So my cross-field shots, especially into the corners are under exposed.​


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## ac12 (Nov 13, 2018)

ooooo, nice shot Ron.
QB + ball + receiver


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## Scoody (Nov 14, 2018)

ronlane said:


> Here is a college shot from the end zone with a 300mm f/2.8 and a 1D mk IV from over 50 yards away and then cropped. I get that these are in day time lighting but the perspective is what I'm pointing at with these.




 
I do not shoot as wide.  I shoot for clients who want action shots of their kids so I have to shoot more of a close up.


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## ac12 (Nov 14, 2018)

Scoody said:


> ronlane said:
> 
> 
> > Here is a college shot from the end zone with a 300mm f/2.8 and a 1D mk IV from over 50 yards away and then cropped. I get that these are in day time lighting but the perspective is what I'm pointing at with these.
> ...



@Scoody , I was shooting volleyball in the gym and was wondering WHY a couple parents were using a 70-200 in the gym, when I was using a 35mm prime on a DX body.  And they were on the front row of the bleachers, even closer than I was   
I finally figured out that they wanted tight pictures of  THEIR kid, not the action of the game or the other kids.

In the gym or on the field, I found that if I zoom in tight with the lens, I have trouble tracking the fast moving action.  I need space around the subject to track and to maintain situational awareness.  So I shoot wide and crop.
On the field, I found that I could crop into a shot with the Nikon 70-200 more than my other lens, and even see their eyes clearly.  So GOOD glass definitely helps.


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## ronlane (Nov 15, 2018)

@Scoody, I shoot tight as well when the play allows for it. But I don't just shoot tight all the time. I think you have to tell more of the store, which includes some tight, some medium and some wide shots. I have parents that buy all three types of shots and the bonus is I have some that buy them just because their kid was in the shot and not the one I was focused on (mostly linemen that were blocking for the RB I was shooting).


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## Scoody (Nov 15, 2018)

ronlane said:


> I have parents that buy all three types of shots and the bonus is I have some that buy them just because their kid was in the shot and not the one I was focused on (mostly linemen that were blocking for the RB I was shooting).



The linemen are the hardest for me to shoot.  Alot of the time, the kid I am trying to get a shot of disappears in the pile.


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## ac12 (Nov 15, 2018)

Scoody said:


> ronlane said:
> 
> 
> > I have parents that buy all three types of shots and the bonus is I have some that buy them just because their kid was in the shot and not the one I was focused on (mostly linemen that were blocking for the RB I was shooting).
> ...



Before the snap, except for the center, most of the center of the line is pretty well blocked from view.  Though you can pick them between the opposing team.
Once the snap happens, you are right, it can be tough to pick out linemen.
If the play happens right, a hole gets knocked open in the line and you can get the center linemen.

One of my better shot was on a defensive play.  Head-on shot with no one blocking my view.  The defensive tackle intercepted the pass, and got to carry the ball.  I tell the yearbook kids, that is the kind of picture/story you want to put out.  A kid/lineman who is NOT expected to carry the ball, has the ball and is headed for the goal line.  He did not make the TD, but he must have felt good to have intercepted and carried the ball.  I sent the intercept picture to the coach.

After looking at some of Ron's pix, I got the idea to go further downfield from the scrimmage line.  I used be to about 15 yards in front, now I am 40-50 yards in front.  This gives me a more of  head-on view of the line, and a better shot at the linemen.  But at that distance, you need a longer lens or better glass.  In my case it was better glass, so that I could crop in without loosing IQ.


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## kathyt (Nov 15, 2018)

Hi Ron!!!!!! I still see your work on Flickr and FB. Hope your doing well!


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## ronlane (Nov 15, 2018)

Hey @kathyt. Thanks. I still have some stuff on there. Things are going well here. Hope you are doing well also.


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## ronlane (Nov 15, 2018)

ac12 said:


> Scoody said:
> 
> 
> > ronlane said:
> ...



That is why sports photography is expensive. Need that 300 or 400mm f/2.8.

You should try laying down from about 20 yards away to shoot a lineman. I have even layed on my stomach out of the back of the end zone to get some good shots.


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## Scoody (Nov 16, 2018)

ac12 said:


> One of my better shot was on a defensive play. Head-on shot with no one blocking my view. The defensive tackle intercepted the pass, and got to carry the ball. I tell the yearbook kids, that is the kind of picture/story you want to put out. A kid/lineman who is NOT expected to carry the ball, has the ball and is headed for the goal line. He did not make the TD, but he must have felt good to have intercepted and carried the ball. I sent the intercept picture to the coach.




A brief personal story.  I played high school football at a small 2A high school in Texas.  I managed to play well enough to get a scholarship at a Division II University.  My dream was to play at Texas A&M but I would never have made it there. In fact I was pretty much over my head in Division II.  I learned that blazing speed in 2A high school was average speed in college.  I was moved from corner to safety because I needed the 15 yard head start.  I pretty rode the bench.

One game our starting safety had his bell rung and the coach put me in.  We were in the shadow of our own end zone and down by three points.  Our opponent lined up at the seven seeking to put the game away with a minute left.  At the snap of the ball I started falling back in coverage and I saw the fullback slip off a block and drift out into the flat.  In high school I played ironman.  Played on both offense and defense.  Besides playing corner on defense and was outstanding at, I played fullback on offense.  My school had an airshow style offense.   There was not a single play in the playbook where the fullback was handed the ball.  But I did run a lot of pass patterns out of the backfield and would catch about 4 or 5 passes a game.  When I saw the fullback sliding out I knew what was up.  I broke off my coverage and went to cover him.  My plan was to light him up when he caught the ball.  The QB never saw me, instead of zipping the ball over to him, he tossed it.  The ball hung up in the air like a balloon.  I snagged it, was already running full speed and no one was left in their backfield.  It was my only interception in college and only pick 6.  It was a school record setting 97 yard interception return for a touchdown.  The record stood until a couple of years ago when a corner pick one off at the goal line and ran it all the way back.

The very next series the starting safety was back on the field and I was back on the bench but I really didn't care.


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