# Has anyone ever been robbed or mugged while out shooting?



## ItsssRyne (Apr 9, 2012)

I'm just curious, has anyone ever been mugged or harassed while out shooting? I know everyone must feel some sense of caution when carrying around expensive equipment. If so would you care to share your story? How you handled the situation and what's the best thing to do.

In the short time I've had my camera I haven't been mugged nor harassed but I've always been weary of these situations. I don't live in the safest city and I'd like to get your opinions on the matter.

From the few times I've trekked through New Orleans I've encountered quite a few suspicious looking characters.


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## Tony S (Apr 9, 2012)

Never been mugged or harassed, but if you think NO gives you some shady looking characters.  Try visiting Columbia or Nicaragua where you gear is worth more than several years of pay to folks there...  If you keep your eyes open and stay aware of your surroundings you should do ok, and trust any gut feelings or little hairs raising that you get.


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## DorkSterr (Apr 9, 2012)

I haven't been mugged nor harassed (knock on wood). I try to avoid the bad part(s) of my town or just keep the camera and gears in my shoulder bag. I don't carry around my gear but only take it out when I see a potential shot.


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## cgipson1 (Apr 9, 2012)

Monopod with heavy ballhead makes a good club! And if there is a 4" rough ground (needle sharp) spike on the foot.. that works too! The good ol' whack and stab!  

Of course, carrying a .40 works too....

What... me paranoid? Naaah...... 

(Disclaimer: any of the above can get you hurt or arrested.. or it may save your life! Or gear! Follow this advice at your own risk!  lol! )


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## ItsssRyne (Apr 9, 2012)

Haha awesome. Yeah knock on wood lol. Thanks for the advice people. 

About two years ago I was walking with a group of friends at a festival and my idiot buddy was walking behind me with his iphone. Next thing I know he's screaming for help. Some hoodlum jumped on him trying to take his phone. I ended up tackling him to the ground and was about to start wailing on him until his friend punches me in the back of the head. I turn around to see who hit me and all I see is crowd of people just staring at me. 

I saved my friends phone but the thugs got away. We go to tell the cops and they could care less. They did absolutely nothing even though they were about 30 feet away.

A bit off topic but it's kinda similar to getting your camera stolen. Lesson learned: watch your surroundings and be ready to beat the crap out of everyone trying to get your stuff. (just don't do anything too drastic). Ever since then I've kinda been paranoid about taking my camera certain places.

btw cgipson1 I like the whole monopod idea


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## TheBiles (Apr 9, 2012)

I would love to take some nighttime city shots of Atlanta, but common sense just tells me not to take $3000 of gear out when we have an armed robbery on campus every month. 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus


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## matthewo (Apr 9, 2012)

I try to stay very aware.  Get a consealed weapons permit.  I would much rather have a gun then not on me when possible.  Of coarse never want to use it but in the south here nobody looks kindy towards robbers, and i have no criminal record, so i wouldnt think twice if the situation presented itself.

Problem is you really need to know its coming.  A slick guy could probably grab your cam and run before you have time to grab your gun.  And you cannot shoot somene fleeing


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## 480sparky (Apr 9, 2012)




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## rexbobcat (Apr 9, 2012)

matthewo said:
			
		

> I try to stay very aware.  Get a consealed weapons permit.  I would much rather have a gun then not on me when possible.  Of coarse never want to use it but in the south here nobody looks kindy towards robbers, and i have no criminal record, so i wouldnt think twice if the situation presented itself.
> 
> Problem is you really need to know its coming.  A slick guy could probably grab your cam and run before you have time to grab your gun.  And you cannot shoot somene fleeing



Supersonic death chop. 

Martial arts master everyone should become.
-Yoda


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## jriepe (Apr 9, 2012)

I've never been robbed or mugged while out shooting but the thought has entered my mind since I do see gang graffiti at times in the forest preserves.  When I carry my monopod I also think of it as a weapon.  But I do have a story about what did happen just over one week ago:  I took a trip to Tennessee leaving access to my house to my sixteen year old daughter.  When I came home last Saturday I learned she decided to have a small party while pops was away.  At this party some shady characters showed up and now I am minus one Nikon D80, a Tamron 90mm macro lens, a Nikon 50mm f/1.8 lens and a Nikon 18-200 lens.  My daughter is minus one laptop and one Playstation 3.  Fortunately I had with me another D80, my D7000, 180mm macro lens, 17-50 f/2.8 Tamron lens and my 70-300 lens along with my two SB600 speedlights and other equipment such as my ASUS laptop.  Needless to say I was absolutely furious.  I can live without the equipment that was stolen but that's not the point.  I lost faith and trust in my daughter.  But I do believe she has learned a valuable lesson.  I know I have.  I've already arranged to have a house sitter when I'm away.

Jerry


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## bestusername (Apr 9, 2012)

Something I often wonder is to what extent does being careful and cautious prevent being robbed or mugged. I like to think quite a bit, but I don't have a deep nor varied set of experiences. Thoughts?


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## cgipson1 (Apr 9, 2012)

matthewo said:


> I try to stay very aware.  Get a consealed weapons permit.  I would much rather have a gun then not on me when possible.  Of coarse never want to use it but in the south here nobody looks kindy towards robbers, and i have no criminal record, so i wouldnt think twice if the situation presented itself.
> 
> Problem is you really need to know its coming.  A slick guy could probably grab your cam and run before you have time to grab your gun.  And you cannot shoot somene fleeing



Hint Hint: Black Rapid Strap!  lol!


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## TheFantasticG (Apr 9, 2012)

I regularly carry a legal limit fixed blade knife and a taser, and a hidden legal weapon of choice while I'm out shooting. Not only to protect from humans but from other mammals as well.


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## Trever1t (Apr 9, 2012)

The thought has and does cross my mind when out and about here in my city or while traveling. Honestly the threat is higher here than it is in the 3rd world countries I've visited. Keep aware of your surroundings, a hand on your gear at all times and if push comes to shove better to lose your gear than your life. I also carry self-preservation equipment but I have insurance for my gear


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## IByte (Apr 9, 2012)

Aaaaah so that's why you're called sparky lol.  Think living in the city gave me great insight on locations to shoot.


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## cgipson1 (Apr 9, 2012)

TheFantasticG said:


> I regularly carry a legal limit fixed blade knife and a taser, and a hidden legal weapon of choice while I'm out shooting. Not only to protect from humans but from other mammals as well.



I don't consider thieves either human or mammalian.. more like advanced pond scum! Same for a variety of others that would prey on a perceived victim!


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## Ysarex (Apr 9, 2012)

Yes, I have been robbed while out shooting and otherwise mugged when not out shooting. I was fortunate not to suffer physical harm. I harbor no malice toward those who harmed me. As human beings our depraved propensity for violence makes us unworthy to share life on this planet. As a defective species we should be exterminated for the benefit of life on earth -- Gort, Klaatu barada

Joe


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## cgipson1 (Apr 9, 2012)

Ysarex said:


> Yes, I have been robbed while out shooting and otherwise mugged when not out shooting. I was fortunate not to suffer physical harm. I harbor no malice toward those who harmed me. As human beings our depraved propensity for violence makes us unworthy to share life on this planet. As a defective species we should be exterminated for the benefit of life on earth -- Gort, Klaatu barada
> 
> Joe



While I don't disagree with you.. I do feel those that instigate the violence need to be put down.. violently! Then those of us who love peace enough to defend it can truly be at peace!


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## Ysarex (Apr 9, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> Ysarex said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, I have been robbed while out shooting and otherwise mugged when not out shooting. I was fortunate not to suffer physical harm. I harbor no malice toward those who harmed me. As human beings our depraved propensity for violence makes us unworthy to share life on this planet. As a defective species we should be exterminated for the benefit of life on earth -- Gort, Klaatu barada
> ...



"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral,  begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. Instead of diminishing  evil, it multiplies it. Through violence you murder the hater, but you  do not murder hate. &#8230; Returning violence for violence multiplies  violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars.  Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot  drive out hate; only love can do that.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_begets_violence#cite_note-6"


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## 480sparky (Apr 9, 2012)

I guess I should ask my attacker out on a date.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Apr 9, 2012)

eye for an eye. no hate to it.


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## Jeff92 (Apr 9, 2012)

Would you consider a bayonet lens hood? lol


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## matthewo (Apr 10, 2012)

Ysarex said:


> "The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. Instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it. Through violence you murder the hater, but you do not murder hate. &#8230; Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."



The less people seek to protect theirselves, the more there will be danger.  your are just feeding into the problem of making those who rob do it more often by making it easier.  there is a trash born everyday that will look to the easy way to make money.  you think they really have half a heart to care what they put you through.  people are robbed, killed and rapped everyday by people who just dont care, their minds dont work the same way as most.

while in theory this may sound great. and may work to your own spiratual well being.  i assure you that 99% of the criminals only learn their lession when they are locked up, beaten/shot to close death. or just plain dead.  its a harsh reality but its the world we live.


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## matthewo (Apr 10, 2012)

its really quite simple, criminals are not kamikazes or terriorsts, they dont go into it knowning they will most likely be dead. believe me if they knew everyone was packing heat and knew how to use it, there would be a lot less hate...

and in no way am i trying to discard your theory, i really am not. we all have veiws and opnions and i do respect that. you may just be a stronger willed individual then me.

you also may feel a situation where not using your perferred method of protection, but rather to just give up your equipment and not use your protection is best. there is that option too, but who is to say you wont just get unviolently mugged, and need to protect your life...


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## Alex_B (Apr 10, 2012)

never so far, not in Guatemala, not in Tobago, not in Mexico, not in Egypt ... only once. in Russia people tried to pickpocket while I was shooting.


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## minooo (Apr 10, 2012)

fire arms are not a solution, as you can worse the rubbers anger and get hurt really well.
Also you could go to jail. Just hand the man your camera. It is just a piece of lousy plastic that you will anyway throw away in 2 years.
Life and health are ireplaceable. Plastics are.


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## rexbobcat (Apr 10, 2012)

minooo said:
			
		

> fire arms are not a solution, as you can worse the rubbers anger and get hurt really well.
> Also you could go to jail. Just hand the man your camera. It is just a piece of lousy plastic that you will anyway throw away in 2 years.
> Life and health are ireplaceable. Plastics are.



I'm confused...how can a shot robber be more dangerous than a...Not shot robber...

And how would you go to jail if you're legally carrying the firearm and you were the one attacked?

Your logic does not compute...


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## rexbobcat (Apr 10, 2012)

Ysarex said:
			
		

> "The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral,  begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. Instead of diminishing  evil, it multiplies it. Through violence you murder the hater, but you  do not murder hate. &hellip; Returning violence for violence multiplies  violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars.  Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot  drive out hate; only love can do that.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_begets_violence#cite_note-6"



You overestimate the moral depths of human character.


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## Overread (Apr 10, 2012)

Never when out with the camera, but then I don't tend to shoot in streets/towns that often. 

That said get yourself insurance to cover theft/damange/loss etc.... then if anyone wants it you just give it over. Cameras might well cost us a small fortune but it ain't worth your life. 

If you're going to fight for your stuff - eh - that can work and it can backfire terribly (most people stabbed with a knife are stabbed with their own knife). It's something that invloves a lot more than strapping a gun/knife to your person and walking out with it.


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## 480sparky (Apr 10, 2012)

minooo said:


> fire arms are not a solution, as you can worse the rubbers anger and get hurt really well.
> Also you could go to jail. Just hand the man your camera. It is just a piece of lousy plastic that you will anyway throw away in 2 years.
> Life and health are ireplaceable. Plastics are.



Not all muggers just want the camera.  There's people out there who also really, truly and honestly want to hurt or kill you.  That's what the sidearm is for.


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## KenC (Apr 10, 2012)

Never in many years of walking around with cameras, here in Philly, in NYC and for a little while in Chicago.  I don't go in the worst neighborhoods, I keep my gear in a nondescript backpack most of the time, and I tend to walk quickly which I think is somewhat of a deterrent - I read once that muggers look at the way people walk to identify those who appear weaker and less likely to resist.


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## ReganP (Apr 10, 2012)

As someone who has had two cameras stolen (only point-and-shoots luckily)  my advice is to always be aware of your surroundings. Don't get lax, don't think it'll be OK for just a minute. I hate to be paranoid but if you feel you're in a sketchy situation or you leave your things unattended, most of the time they WILL get stolen.

Incidentally I've only been afraid while shooting once. I took a Canon Rebel (I don't know what kind) that I was renting from my university to shoot some pictures for a story I was doing about homeless people's dogs and how they take care of them on the streets. One of the locations I visited to get interviews was a shelter with a bad reputation. I'm not saying all or even very many homeless people are thieves or untrustworthy, but I met some seriously sketchy and mentally ill people there. Luckily everything turned out fine and I was able to return the camera safe and sound. I did end up contracting pink eye from that little project though.


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## cgipson1 (Apr 10, 2012)

Ysarex said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> > Ysarex said:
> ...



Again.. I agree! But there speaks a "Victim"! See you in the obituaries, bud!   (just kidding.. but trying to make a point!)


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## cgipson1 (Apr 10, 2012)

Jeff92 said:


> Would you consider a bayonet lens hood? lol



Ooh.. make one out of high carbon steel, and sharpen the edges like a razor... and give the bad guy the ULTIMATE close-up!


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## cgipson1 (Apr 10, 2012)

minooo said:


> fire arms are not a solution, as you can worse the rubbers anger and get hurt really well.
> Also you could go to jail. Just hand the man your camera. It is just a piece of lousy plastic that you will anyway throw away in 2 years.
> Life and health are ireplaceable. Plastics are.



Funny.. I consistently disagree with everything you post!


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## cgipson1 (Apr 10, 2012)

Overread said:


> Never when out with the camera, but then I don't tend to shoot in streets/towns that often.
> 
> That said get yourself insurance to cover theft/damange/loss etc.... then if anyone wants it you just give it over. Cameras might well cost us a small fortune but it ain't worth your life.
> 
> If you're going to fight for your stuff - eh - that can work and it can backfire terribly (most people stabbed with a knife are stabbed with their own knife). It's something that invloves a lot more than strapping a gun/knife to your person and walking out with it.



I do agree with this. If you lack the training, or the necessary mindset.. you should just hand over the camera, and hope that the bad guy doesn't decide to hurt / kill you just for fun! But then I think anyone and everyone can defend themselves if they want to.. with a bit of training also. (I used to teach "Don't be a Victim" women's self defense classes... and the gals loved it! They were good at it.. after they got over the nonsense that they had been indoctrinated with their whole lives (being helpless)!


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## rexbobcat (Apr 10, 2012)

Overread said:


> Never when out with the camera, but then I don't tend to shoot in streets/towns that often.
> 
> That said get yourself insurance to cover theft/damange/loss etc.... then if anyone wants it you just give it over. Cameras might well cost us a small fortune but it ain't worth your life.
> 
> If you're going to fight for your stuff - eh - that can work and it can backfire terribly (most people stabbed with a knife are stabbed with their own knife). It's something that invloves a lot more than strapping a gun/knife to your person and walking out with it.



That's why you educate yourself with training. But then again....I'm from Texas...from the cowboy part...it kind of just comes with the territory growing up. lol


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## mfdrookie516 (Apr 10, 2012)

I proudly practice my _*right*_ (yeah, it's surprisingly still there) to carry a firearm legally... everywhere I legally can.  I do agree with what overread posted though to an extent.  My philosophy has always been never carry a weapon that you are not proficient with, whether that's a rock, knife, gun, taser, etc.  My camera is cheap (t3i), but to someone who see's drug money, it might look expensive.   But... I still carry even without my camera.


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## DiskoJoe (Apr 10, 2012)

ItsssRyne said:


> I'm just curious, has anyone ever been mugged or harassed while out shooting? I know everyone must feel some sense of caution when carrying around expensive equipment. If so would you care to share your story? How you handled the situation and what's the best thing to do.
> 
> In the short time I've had my camera I haven't been mugged nor harassed but I've always been weary of these situations. I don't live in the safest city and I'd like to get your opinions on the matter.
> 
> From the few times I've trekked through New Orleans I've encountered quite a few suspicious looking characters.



Try to go out with a friend or friends. There is strength in numbers. A tripod is a formidable weapon if used correctly and useful when doing night shots anyway. If all else fails carry a knife or a gun. I have a pocket knife I carry with me sometimes but I have never had any problems here in Houston. The bums are usually pretty cool and would rather have a cigarette or some spare change then your gear. I had one homeless lady tell me she loved photography so I showed her some of my pictures. She told she thought they were really good. Then she told me she loved me too. : }


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## Stradawhovious (Apr 10, 2012)

Overread said:


> Never when out with the camera, but then I don't tend to shoot in streets/towns that often.
> 
> That said get yourself insurance to cover theft/damange/loss etc.... then if anyone wants it you just give it over. Cameras might well cost us a small fortune but it ain't worth your life.
> 
> If you're going to fight for your stuff - eh - that can work and it can backfire terribly (most people stabbed with a knife are stabbed with their own knife). It's something that invloves a lot more than strapping a gun/knife to your person and walking out with it.



I can appreciated this logic, but someone in the Minneapolis area might want to inform the scum donig the robbing that they can stop after they receive your valuables.

There have been several instances where armed thugs put their victims in the hospital, and in a couple of cases in the _ground _even *after *the victim handed over all their valuables.

The rules have changed, and if you think someone who is of the mind of using violence to get your belongings will stop just because you gave them what they want, you might be in for a nasty surprise.

Everyone needs to make up their own mind on how they will conduct themselves in this situation. It can happen any time, any where...... Wheter you avoid the "bad" parts of town or not.

I will not judge anyone for handling the situation by laying down and doing what they are told, but me....... well, if you confront me or my family with violence, I will defend my life and the lives of my loved ones by any means possible.

In addition to my camera, I carry a firearm.

Wherever I go, and whenver I'm awake. Say what you will about that, I have made my choice.

ETA.... and in addition to carrying a firearm, I have also received quite a bit of training. I go out of my way to take both live fire classes and straight up classroom training, and practice frequently. I also hope that all of that training is in vain, and never needs to be put to the test.  I've thus far not had any incidents while out taking photos or otherwise, and consider myself very fortunate.


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## onehundredoctane (Apr 10, 2012)

While out at night shooting downtown I've been approached by a bum looking for a hand out. I ALWAYS get a friend to go with me if I think I'll be in a bad part of town, we both have concealment permits and Glock 0.40's so there isn't much to be afraid of, although I try to keep a watchful eye it always helps to have a friend who isn't just looking thru the viewfinder like I am.


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## theeph (Apr 10, 2012)

TheFantasticG said:


> I regularly carry a legal limit fixed blade knife and a taser, and a hidden legal weapon of choice while I'm out shooting. Not only to protect from humans but from other mammals as well.



What about reptiles?


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## hopdaddy (Apr 10, 2012)

KenC said:


> Never in many years of walking around with cameras, here in Philly, in NYC and for a little while in Chicago.  I don't go in the worst neighborhoods, I keep my gear in a nondescript backpack most of the time, and I tend to walk quickly which I think is somewhat of a deterrent - I read once that muggers look at the way people walk to identify those who appear weaker and less likely to resist.


 There is some good info in this post....I grew up in Miami ,and now live in the Atlanta area. There are simply parts of the city you need not go to . If you do and are armed....well you just lost the piece too , and may-be your life .  In my younger years ,I taught  Marshal-arts and entered many full contact tournaments , so I'm not of the " Victim" mind set . I don't look like a victim , or act like I'm afraid of any body.If nothing else, a thug will think twice if you don't look as an easy target .  When i encounter Homeless , before I give them some money ,I will have a dialog with them ,looking them in the eyes ,and listening to their story ..... I've never been mugged (When photographing) but seldom in the city alone , and always armed with more than one way ,to protect me and others..... But you will never truly know how you will react ,until the second you have too .


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## Stradawhovious (Apr 10, 2012)

My advice to anyone that is looking for a good way to not get mugged isn't necessarily to carry a weapon, or to just hand over your belongings to the first person that asks for them..........

It's to travel in packs and be aware of your surroundings.

Get a friend or few to go with you.  You are far less likely to be a victim of violent crime if you travel in greater numbers.  The chance isn't eliminated...... but it is surely greatly reduced.  Listen to your gut.  If your gut tells you that someone is following you, or that you feel someone intends to do you harm or look suspicious..... go into a store, get to a well lit and more populated area,  walk the other way etc etc etc.  Human intuition can be an amazing thing, so it's important to listen to that little voice in your head when it's trying to tell you something.

If I go out galavanting around with my camera after dark, I always have a person or two with me.  Not only do I then have a second set of eyes to help with the situational awareness, I also have a pack mule.


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## r1000 (Apr 10, 2012)

I'm in the "carry a knife" camp... I have adopted this from another activity that I like doing.. Which is cycling, not Bike riding... CYCLING.  Bikes with skinny tires, Lycra.. yes like Lance Armstrong (except not at all like Lance Armstrong in the cycling skill dept.. haha.. I wish!!), you get the idea.  Anyway there are tons of idiots on the roads today that feel they OWN that road and that someone on something that doesn't at least have four wheels is doing something wrong.  Anyway.. back on topic, yes I carry a knife.  I was in the Marine Corps for four years and did a lot of training on how to use one.  Thankfully I haven't been in any situation which has had me use it.  I also carry one in my car, that one is not of legal size   don't say anything... or I'll cut ya :greenpbl:


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## flowness (Apr 10, 2012)

Never attacked, but have been hassled aggressively by homeless. Personal space _way_ invaded, path blocked, etc. I think they figure if they make you uncomfortable you'll just hand over some cash so they'll go away. I just say "Sorry, don't have any cash on me". And it helps to not stop walking no matter what, that seems to be perceived as an invitation for more interaction. There are times when I'll give some, but won't do anything for someone already going out of their way to make me feel threatened.
But this has happened whether I'm carrying any camera or not, so I don't think that's the draw. I think you look like a target/soft touch/mark, or you don't.
Awareness & buddy system are my preferred method. I have skipped stuff I wanted to do because would have had to go alone.


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## nicosiy (Apr 10, 2012)

This is why we workout.


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## gsgary (Apr 10, 2012)

Must be great fun going out with a gun and a camera, so glad i live over here


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## Overread (Apr 10, 2012)

gsgary said:


> Must be great fun going out with a gun and a camera, so glad i live over here



Hey range shooting is fun 

with a gun


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## 480sparky (Apr 10, 2012)

gsgary said:


> Must be great fun going out with a gun and a camera, so glad i live over here



Yep.  Kinda fun knowing I'm able to defend myself.  When seconds count, the police are just minutes away.


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## mfdrookie516 (Apr 10, 2012)

480sparky said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> > Must be great fun going out with a gun and a camera, so glad i live over here
> ...



I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6...


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## gsgary (Apr 10, 2012)

Overread said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> > Must be great fun going out with a gun and a camera, so glad i live over here
> ...




Not as good as watching paint dry


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## zcar21 (Apr 10, 2012)

Tony S said:


> Never been mugged or harassed, but if you think NO gives you some shady looking characters. Try visiting Columbia or Nicaragua where you gear is worth more than several years of pay to folks there... If you keep your eyes open and stay aware of your surroundings you should do ok, and trust any gut feelings or little hairs raising that you get.



Years? what a misleading statement, either you're never been to any of those countries or you're talking about a canon 1dx with a bunch of L lenses to make such comparison. It varies a lot, but in average I don't think most people carry more than $2000 on gear when out shooting, or even $1000.
The south american country is Colombia.


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## ewick (Apr 10, 2012)

I have never been robbed, but I have been harrased.... by other photogs claiming; "this is my spot" yeah like they invented it. When I got there nobody was there so I set up to shoot (motorcycle) on a mountain. I'm not a regular on that mountain nor was I shooting for profit so I didn't feel I had to move, needless to say an argument ensued and ended in a fight (wich I won) I guess boxing as a kid well into my mid twenties did pay off. Moral of the story is: think before you start a fight, argument or try to rob somebody cause you never know what kind of background the other person has.   Tip of the day: shoot with some one else wether they are assisting or shooting along with you cause power runs in numbers.


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## Netskimmer (Apr 10, 2012)

Never been robbed or seriously harrased. I do carry a concealed gun and an "assisted open" knife. The knife is not a switch blade but it can be easily opened with on hand and it is of legal carrying length (you can do a suprising amount of damage with a small blade if you have the proper instruction) but these are weapons of last resort. Best advise is to avoid conflict altogether with the tips mentioned in this thread. Travel in groups, project confidence, stay alert.


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## Alex_B (Apr 10, 2012)

Netskimmer said:


> Never been robbed or seriously harrased. I do carry a concealed gun and an "assisted open" knife. The knife is not a switch blade but it can be easily opened with on hand and it is of legal carrying length (you can do a suprising amount of damage with a small blade if you have the proper instruction) but these are weapons of last resort. Best advise is to avoid conflict altogether with the tips mentioned in this thread. Travel in groups, project confidence, stay alert.



Travel in groups is something I hate and avoid at all costs (unless it is my support team  ), but to show confidence and to stay alert are certainly good advice ... plus sometimes stay on low profile 

Another advice: If you carry any kind of weapon, you MUST be willing, ready and trained to use it - else it will be used against you.


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## Trever1t (Apr 10, 2012)

zcar21 said:


> It varies a lot, but in average I don't think most people carry more than $2000 on gear when out shooting, or even $1000.




This is a ridiculous statement. I walk out my door with a single lens and I hold almost $5,000 retail in my hands....and I never go out with a single lens. I've been to more than 3 countries where the average citizen makes less than $2400/yr. and 2 of those well less than that. 

That said I felt safer with my gear there than I do in the park just down the street.


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## zcar21 (Apr 10, 2012)

Your taking what I said out of context. I said AVERAGE. MOST PEOPLE do not have a lens or camera that cost more than $2000.


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## Alex_B (Apr 10, 2012)

zcar21 said:


> Years? what a misleading statement, either you're never been to any of those countries or you're talking about a canon 1dx with a bunch of L lenses to make such comparison. It varies a lot, but in average I don't think most people carry more than $2000 on gear when out shooting, or even $1000.



It really depends what kind of people you talk about ... if you talk about what I consider photographers, and that does not mean exclusively professionals, but excludes the Jon Doe vacation shooters with non-dSLRs, then I would guess on average they do carry more than USD 1000. At least all non-pros I know who travel such countries carry gear between USD 600 and 10 000. In that group the average easily settles around 3000. But statistically my friends are just a too small group to be valid of course, I know.


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## zcar21 (Apr 10, 2012)

I'm not talking a someone in particular or a particular group. I have traveled to 9 different countries and MOST people carry p&s or superzooms, SOME (an increasing number of people) carry entry level dslr, and very few people carry profesional equipment.


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## 12sndsgood (Apr 10, 2012)

zcar21 said:


> Tony S said:
> 
> 
> > Never been mugged or harassed, but if you think NO gives you some shady looking characters. Try visiting Columbia or Nicaragua where you gear is worth more than several years of pay to folks there... If you keep your eyes open and stay aware of your surroundings you should do ok, and trust any gut feelings or little hairs raising that you get.
> ...




I dont think he mentioned most people. He was mentioning himself.


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## Alex_B (Apr 10, 2012)

zcar21 said:


> I'm not talking a someone in particular or a particular group. I have traveled to 9 different countries and MOST people carry p&s or superzooms, SOME (an increasing number of people) carry entry level dslr, and very few people carry profesional equipment.



30+ countries visited, and I agree there are many people with p&s and bridge cameras. But for those people their photographic equipment is usually not their most valuable item they carry, it is just one item among many others. But this thread was about those people who are afraid of their most valuable possessions, their photographic equipment, being at risk.

But this discussion is irrelevant, as the comparison to yearly income was not referring to an average of all people with a camera anyway


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## 12sndsgood (Apr 10, 2012)

I have thought about getting my permit to carry, doing automotive photography you tend to find yourself in some more rundown areas. Carrying a gun would have nothing to do with saving my camera, it's insured. it's about protecting myself just in case.


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## zcar21 (Apr 10, 2012)

Alex_B said:


> But this discussion is irrelevant, as the comparison to yearly income was not referring to an average of all people with a camera anyway



I agree with you there, but if I had a canon t3i, like the OP, and someone tells me that if I go to Colombia or Nicaragua my gear would be worth several years' pay of the people there I would think that person is crazy or don't know absolutely nothing.


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## Kbarredo (Apr 11, 2012)

not very many people think they can mug a 280lbs powerlifter with a carbon steel tripod. I ALWAYS carry a tripod just in case. Although I should get insurance for when my size does not scare them away. I have to say you americans that carry guns make me so envious. Us gun owners here in canada are automatically treated as murderers. They basically want innocent people to be defenseless here. I cant even carry pepper spray. Although I do carry dog mace which is legal under the pest control act. I dont understand the difference though because they both sting.


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## Compaq (Apr 11, 2012)

Being mugged is the least of your Canadian problem. Tar oil is what I speak of. (yes, I know we invest in it)


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## bentcountershaft (Apr 11, 2012)

Can't Canadians just throw a hocky puck in the air to distract the attacker and run?


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## bratkinson (Apr 11, 2012)

I've only been mugged once, and that was almost 50 years ago, walking alone in an undesirable neighborhood at night....long before I picked up a real camera.

Whether with camera or without, the best defense is to be aware of your surroundings, avoiding, if possible, risky situations or neighborhoods.  Yea, it might be great artistic opportunity to take pix of homeless people late at night, but doing so alone would be very risky.  Alternatively, travel with several friends other than Mr Smith and Mr Wesson.  On the other hand, I've strolled downtown Chicago alone with camera in hand, taking pictures, midday on a weekday without incident.  Crowds are always a good protection.


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## jowensphoto (Apr 11, 2012)

zcar21 said:


> Tony S said:
> 
> 
> > Never been mugged or  harassed, but if you think NO gives you some shady looking characters.  Try visiting Columbia or Nicaragua where you gear is worth more than  several years of pay to folks there... If you keep your eyes open and  stay aware of your surroundings you should do ok, and trust any gut  feelings or little hairs raising that you get.
> ...



$1000-$2000 is not much equipment. My camera, lens, and speedlight that get carried to every location are worth about $1500. And I have a pretty cheap camera. Someone carrying a 5D, extra lens and external flash are going to be carrying a lot more in terms of monetary value.

I'm in the process of procuring a CCW, but in the mean time, I carry a boxcutter and pepper spray. Never had to use them, but if I did, it would be in that order


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## Netskimmer (Apr 11, 2012)

Kbarredo said:


> I have to say you americans that carry guns make me so envious. Us gun owners here in canada are automatically treated as murderers. They basically want innocent people to be defenseless here.



Unfortunately Obama and his conspirators are doing their best to make that happen here as well. For the time being, a nice big camera will get you treated like a criminal/terrorist here more than a gun in most places.


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## MrElveUK (Apr 11, 2012)

Me personally no but I was out with a friend once and some guy approached us and asked him to borrow his camera (looked dodgy) and wouldn't go away until my friend threatened to call the police. So. Be wary ;P


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## Netskimmer (Apr 11, 2012)

Borrow his camera? What on earth for?


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## jowensphoto (Apr 11, 2012)

Yeah, that's sketchy at best.


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## Alex_B (Apr 11, 2012)

Netskimmer said:


> Borrow his camera? What on earth for?



Borrow = give it to him and he will walk away with it.

polite way of mugging


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## MrElveUK (Apr 11, 2012)

Alex_B said:


> Netskimmer said:
> 
> 
> > Borrow his camera? What on earth for?
> ...



Nailed it in one!


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## Netskimmer (Apr 11, 2012)

Alex_B said:


> Netskimmer said:
> 
> 
> > Borrow his camera? What on earth for?
> ...



Well, yeah   but what I mean is did he give a reason/excuse for why he wanted to borrow the camera. I'm assuming that if it took a threat to call the cops to get rid of him that the conversation had some length to it. Just curious.


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## KenC (Apr 11, 2012)

MrElveUK said:


> Me personally no but I was out with a friend once and some guy approached us and asked him to borrow his camera (looked dodgy) and wouldn't go away until my friend threatened to call the police. So. Be wary ;P



Sounds like your friend is too polite for his own good.  I keep walking and refuse to engage.  If you make them chase you, they give up pretty easily.


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## Alex_B (Apr 11, 2012)

Netskimmer said:


> Well, yeah   but what I mean is did he give a reason/excuse for why he wanted to borrow the camera. I'm assuming that if it took a threat to call the cops to get rid of him that the conversation had some length to it. Just curious.



You still don't understand England yet


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## Netskimmer (Apr 11, 2012)

Alex_B said:


> Netskimmer said:
> 
> 
> > Well, yeah   but what I mean is did he give a reason/excuse for why he wanted to borrow the camera. I'm assuming that if it took a threat to call the cops to get rid of him that the conversation had some length to it. Just curious.
> ...



s'pose not . I have always wanted to visit Europe, experience other cultures.  Some day perhaps...


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## Canuk (Apr 11, 2012)

Compaq said:


> Being mugged is the least of your Canadian problem. Tar oil is what I speak of. (yes, I know we invest in it)



Statement like this are like a personal attack on my livelihood, most often than not made by people not educated w/ the Oilsands mining or extraction process. 

It is very easy for someone to fly over an open pit mine and take pictures. Mining is not a pretty thing, but what most people fail to recognise is the forest they flew over to get to that mine, was once a mine itself.

In Alberta we have government and industry regulatory bodies that ensure the environment is well protected. The governing agencies in Canada, regarding industry are very strict and the penalties for non compliance swift and severe. 

The disaster that happened off the gulf coast, would not have been allowed to happen in Canada or in the North Sea, because of stronger regulations and requirements. On a recent trip through Montana, I seen a Pole Rig working over a well, We have not used that equipment in Canada for more than 30 years.


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## Netskimmer (Apr 11, 2012)

Canuk said:


> Compaq said:
> 
> 
> > Being mugged is the least of your Canadian problem. Tar oil is what I speak of. (yes, I know we invest in it)
> ...



So you took what you considered to be a personal attack on a Canadian by a Norwegen and responded to it by attacking the US...nice.:roll: You didn't work for the Bush administration did you?


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## 480sparky (Apr 11, 2012)

Canuk said:


> .................The disaster that happened off the gulf coast, would not have been allowed to happen in Canada or in the North Sea, because of stronger regulations and requirements. On a recent trip through Montana, I seen a Pole Rig working over a well, We have not used that equipment in Canada for more than 30 years.



Interesting.  You have completely eliminated environmental disasters through legislation.  Bravo!  I can see it now..... Signs at the borders:  "Welcome to Canada!  No environmental disasters in 5,635 days!"

Now start working on murders, rapes, and drugs.


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## banderson (Apr 11, 2012)

480sparky said:


> Canuk said:
> 
> 
> > .................The disaster that happened off the gulf coast, would not have been allowed to happen in Canada or in the North Sea, because of stronger regulations and requirements. On a recent trip through Montana, I seen a Pole Rig working over a well, We have not used that equipment in Canada for more than 30 years.
> ...



From what I understand- The overall rate of crime in Canada is much lower per capita than in the US.

EDIT: Not that I really agree with the way Canada regulates things lol


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## 480sparky (Apr 11, 2012)

banderson said:


> From what I understand- The overall rate of crime in Canada is much lower per capita than in the US.
> ..........



That's what I mean.  If they can regulate environmental disasters into the history books, perhaps they should start legislating crimes out of existence as well.


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## unpopular (Apr 11, 2012)

I have had a couple of experiences, actually. Once in Cambridge MA, actually at the Harvard book store a couple of guys were making me feel uncomfortable. Looking and whispering as my small-town friends sister made an obnoxiously big deal about it and how it must have costed a me a lot of money. My friend and I passed back and forth my camera bag and just kept moving around the store, they kept pretty good tabs on us, but eventually became nervous and decided against making any further moves.

The second time I was out shooting at night, this big skinhead type was sitting in his car and made no effort at discression. Just before I approached his rusty bucket of a car, he drove off. Knowing he was eyeing my gear, I watched him drive off and turn a couple blocks down, figuring he'd come back when I was in a less well-lit area, I hid in a garden at the local art museum, behind a wall and just listened. Sure enough, he drove by a couple of times and after he left I darted into an alley, through a parking lot and into a neighborhood which would have been difficult for him to get into, and proceeded to walk home on the side streets.

When i was younger, I used to have this big plan about how I'd club an attacker over the head with my tripod (and very heavy Contax RX or Bronica S) but when you're actually in that sort of situation, it makes much more sense to use your head than go thinking you'll go all Rambo.


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## Kbarredo (Apr 11, 2012)

Canuk said:


> Compaq said:
> 
> 
> > Being mugged is the least of your Canadian problem. Tar oil is what I speak of. (yes, I know we invest in it)
> ...


 Lol of course the albertan would defend the oil sands. Im just joking bud. Im just worried about that big pipe they got going across the national parks into bc. Remember the dawson creek bombings. Imagine if someone did that again and these pipelines are too long to be inspected everyday.


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## Compaq (Apr 11, 2012)

So, what exactly is the reason for the extreme cancer rate certain local tribes downstream are suffering? What is the reason for neutral scientific teams claiming that the river is poisoned, leading to deformed fish, deadly waters and tribes living in fear of that soon the numbers of dead family and friends will have double digits?


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## Archer (Apr 11, 2012)

Ha. Guess I forgot which forum I opened. I couldn't figure out why in the world someone would attempt to mug someone out having a little target practice.


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## Kbarredo (Apr 11, 2012)

Compaq said:


> So, what exactly is the reason for the extreme cancer rate certain local tribes downstream are suffering? What is the reason for neutral scientific teams claiming that the river is poisoned, leading to deformed fish, deadly waters and tribes living in fear of that soon the numbers of dead family and friends will have double digits?


 I dont know about the rest but I do know the deformed fish has lots of factors to it. It could be the pulp mills run offs, it could be the oil field or it could be the hormones flushed down the toilet from women's birth control usage. This is exactly why I opposed the giant pipeline that they put in that runs through the national parks.


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## ecphoto (Apr 11, 2012)

I've never been robbed while out shooting knock on wood. Then again I've never shot in Mexico city or Medellin Colombia where real danger lurks. South central LA is pretty hairy at night, but I've managed to stay safe.
The best place I've found is Las Vegas for night photography. The cops there keep it very safe, especially photographers.

I usually bring a second person with me. That way I can be fully aware of my surroundings while I'm focused on taking the shot. I also keep a "blackjack" with me for protection.


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## Compaq (Apr 12, 2012)

What makes me mad is people *denying *the slightest possibility that the mining is the cause for the problems. "We take the sand, do a little something something with it - and we've got oil! Then, we put it back right where we found it. And as you see, the forest comes back within some years, and the place is full of wildlife."

And the thing that makes me uke: is the TV "documentaries" that romanticise the whole process. "Oil - our energy source. Oil - what makes us live our lives that we all take for granted. And it is all because of our hard working men, that sweat and work bad hours, that this is possible. We have the world's biggest trucks - there are no bigger in the world. We get the oil that you need, and do that without destroying the environment. We're making your life possible."


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## o hey tyler (Apr 12, 2012)

Netskimmer said:


> Kbarredo said:
> 
> 
> > I have to say you americans that carry guns make me so envious. Us gun owners here in canada are automatically treated as murderers. They basically want innocent people to be defenseless here.
> ...



Well, good thing that what you stated isn't actually true or founded in reality. Some of the rhetoric I've seen regarding gun control makes me really concerned for one. People stating that they "need guns to protect us from the government." Sounds pretty radical to me. (Not saying that's you, Netskimmer, just what I've read on the net) 

BTW, I am a recreational gun user, and I am for gun ownership rights. I just have absolutely no reason to believe that anything will happen in Obama's second term that will restrict gun users rights. 

The second amendment will stay, unless you believe what Faux News tells you.


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## Forkie (Apr 12, 2012)

Well, carrying a weapon in the UK is illegal so it's best to just keep your wits about you, be sensible about where you go and what you have on show.  Apart from that, if anything happens just be ready to deliver a knuckle sandwich directly up the throat!


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## Stradawhovious (Apr 12, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


> . People stating that they "need guns to protect us from the government." Sounds pretty radical to me. (Not saying that's you, Netskimmer, just what I've read on the net)



Radical or not, that is EXACTLY why we have the second amendment, and EXACTLY why politicians both right an left fear it. It's also EXACTLY why our founding fathers put the Second amendment in the Constitution, and were so very adamant in protecting it


Radical? Yes. I would think that taking up arms against an overbearing Government, by it's people, would definately be considered radical.

But then again, that's why we aren't lackeys for England right now. And also why you have the right, if you so choose, to own a firearm.


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## jwbryson1 (Apr 12, 2012)

DiskoJoe said:


> I had one homeless lady tell me she loved photography so I showed her some of my pictures. She told she thought they were really good. Then she told me she loved me too. : }



Did you get lucky?


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## gsgary (Apr 12, 2012)

Don't think i would carry a gun after the George Zimmerman case, if he gets convicted of murder it could open the flood gates


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## Stradawhovious (Apr 12, 2012)

gsgary said:


> Don't think i would carry a gun after the George Zimmerman case, if he gets convicted of murder it could open the flood gates



Don't think you would carry one before hand either, seeing as your country sees it necessary to disarm it's law abiding populace (and seeing your repeated, very vocal opionion on firearms). In your country a perpetrator of violent crime could just beat a victim to death with a pipe or their fists or lets face it, a gun.... and the "law abiding" citizen would have absolutely no recourse other than to _hope _the police show up before he dies or fight back with their bare hands, and hope they come out on top. Me? I like keeping things on a level playing field. I would prefer that 120lb woman has a gun to fight off a 250 rapist rather than her fists and a whistle. :er:

And as far as the Zimmerman case goes, It's a tragedy for sure, but unlike the majority of the "news media" sources here, and the masses screaming for his blood before he is convicted of anything, I'm going to let the facts get presented in court, and allow the justice system do it's job before condemning him for anything. Too bad the public and news media can't do the same.


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## Crollo (Apr 12, 2012)

matthewo said:


> Problem is you really need to know its coming.  A slick guy could probably grab your cam and run before you have time to grab your gun.  And you cannot shoot somene fleeing



Shooting a guy dead for stealing a camera. Only in America.


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## unpopular (Apr 12, 2012)

I think in the case of Zimmerman the only certain criminals are the pigs who refused to investigate the event. If Zimmerman is guilty, it might be evidence of a horrible, unforgivable mistake resulting from a culture which requires too few responsibilities to gun owners who use their weapons.

But the real criminals are the police.

--

You have a right to own a gun, you have a right to use it in self defense. But if you're wrong - for whatever reason - it should be manslaughter. No excuses, no exceptions. If you are going to have the right to carry a weapon, you have to accept the responsibility for it's use.


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## Stradawhovious (Apr 12, 2012)

Crollo said:


> Shooting a guy dead for stealing a camera. Only in America.



There seems to be a lot of hate for the US by some folks in your country based on some drastic false stereotypes.

Maybe you should have some Kraft Dinner, put on a sweater and calm down a bit.  Eh?


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## Netskimmer (Apr 12, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


> Netskimmer said:
> 
> 
> > Kbarredo said:
> ...



As long as we stay vigilant the second amendment will stay. This will be because of the diligence of American citizens and in spite of Obama's efforts to destroy it. His voting record is quite clear and he has stated his opinions on the matter directly. He is not going to destroy the second amendment outright, he and his cronies are chipping away at it slowly by pushing anti-gun legislation and by demonizing gun owners to the general public.


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## unpopular (Apr 12, 2012)

Cronies? Really? Please...

---

Now. Has anyone been out Shooting while Mugging? Now THAT would make a photo essay.


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## Netskimmer (Apr 12, 2012)

Crollo said:


> matthewo said:
> 
> 
> > Problem is you really need to know its coming.  A slick guy could probably grab your cam and run before you have time to grab your gun.  And you cannot shoot somene fleeing
> ...



It's called deterrence. If a criminal thinks there is a good chance he will be killed for his efforts he would be far less likely to do it. If you were going to mug someone and had to choose between Montreal or Texas which would you choose?


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## Netskimmer (Apr 12, 2012)

unpopular said:


> Cronies? Really? Please...
> 
> ---
> 
> Now. Has anyone been out Shooting while Mugging? Now THAT would make a photo essay.



If the shoe fits. As for the shooting while mugging, I have seen several stories were criminals have documented their crimes. Would be kind of tough with a DSLR though, unless you had cronies...


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## unpopular (Apr 12, 2012)

Netskimmer said:


> Crollo said:
> 
> 
> > matthewo said:
> ...



Then why is it that violent crime rates are highest in regions with the most gun ownership? Texas is a perfect example. Obviously there is a causal relationship, but also we've ad guns long enough that you'd think that there would be an effect.

I'm pro-gun, but the argument that guns make the streets safer isn't backed up with evidence.


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## Stradawhovious (Apr 12, 2012)

Netskimmer said:


> Crollo said:
> 
> 
> > matthewo said:
> ...



My Opinion.

It would be asanine and immoral (and in the VAST majority of states a criminal act) to kill someone to protect your property. It's jsut stuff. Let it go.

I'm also of the mind that physical violence should be answered with violence.

If someone wants to dash past and steal my camera, it's my faust for not having it more securely fastened to me. If the take out a weapon, or threaten me personally, it is no longer just about my camera, is it?


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## Trever1t (Apr 12, 2012)

Actually, I don't believe that's a fact. Rather as reference, Washington DC criminalized gun ownership for a time and the violent crime rate went up....up to the point of being the highest per capita in the country.


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## Netskimmer (Apr 12, 2012)

unpopular said:


> Then why is it that violent crime rates are highest in regions with the most gun ownership? Texas is a perfect example. Obviously there is a causal relationship, but also we've ad guns long enough that you'd think that there would be an effect.
> 
> I'm pro-gun, but the argument that guns make the streets safer isn't backed up with evidence.



Strange that I read article after article that states the exact opposite...




Stradawhovious said:


> Netskimmer said:
> 
> 
> > Crollo said:
> ...



Granted, shooting somone in the back as they flee would be a bit excessive. If someone is standing in front of me demanding my property I will refuse. If they attempt to take it by force I will defend myself with all means at my disposal. Assuming I that I feel I can get to my weapon before they kill me. Otherwise I will hand my property over and hope they leave me be. It may be worth killing this scum over but not dying over myself.


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## Forkie (Apr 12, 2012)

Stradawhovious said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> > Don't think i would carry a gun after the George Zimmerman case, if he gets convicted of murder it could open the flood gates
> ...





Actually in the UK most people see us being "disarmed" as you put it, as a good thing.

I  think the general consensus is that people do not have the right to  carry a gun with them on the street simply because you also do not have  the right to use one against another human being on the street.

I also think that the majority are also content with the British Police being unarmed.  They never have been armed and do pretty well without the use of guns.

If everyone was armed all hell could break loose.  People could... I don't know, go to a school and shoot everyone.


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## Alex_B (Apr 12, 2012)

Trever1t said:


> Actually, I don't believe that's a fact. Rather as reference, Washington DC criminalized gun ownership for a time and the violent crime rate went up....up to the point of being the highest per capita in the country.



And did it go down again after it was de-criminalized?

From the statistics I remember vaguely, gun-ownership might give an individual a better chance to protect himself against criminals with guns, but it does not affect the crime rate itself in either direction.


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## Stradawhovious (Apr 12, 2012)

unpopular said:


> Then why is it that violent crime rates are highest in regions with the most gun ownership?



A statement like this needs to be backed up with a reliable source, or dismissed as hearsay. (which it is.)

Violent crimes are higher in regions with a higher population.  It's simple statistics.


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## belial (Apr 12, 2012)

Stradawhovious said:
			
		

> My Opinion.
> 
> It would be asanine and immoral (and in the VAST majority of states a criminal act) to kill someone to protect your property. It's jsut stuff. Let it go.
> 
> ...



You should take more pride in your property.


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## cgipson1 (Apr 12, 2012)

One thing I really dislike about countries, states, cities, etc.. that outlaw gun ownership and the right to carry..... is that the criminals are going to ignore the law anyway, and only the criminals and the police will have guns!


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## KnightofDoom (Apr 12, 2012)

I took a trip to Caracas last October and my sister decided to take her D3000 with her along with some sony point and shoot and that alone gave me goosebumps. One night we were heading back to our hotel and we stopped by a bakery that was open at about 11pm. My "smart" sister takes out her point and shoot and starts taking pictures of the food and this guy was nice enough to tell us he noticed we werent from around there and told us if we valued our things it would be smart to hide them. Luckily we never got mugged or pickpocketed although we got a little scared one night when some homeless guy started following us asking for change. Strategically placing  yourself between the other people you are with, placing your camera under your arm, and making sure you keep an eye on any suspicious guys can save your stuff. One thing I did was I made sure to make eye contact with any hoodlums that look like they want your stuff. It lets them know your aware of them. 

The way I see it, I worked damn hard for my stuff and Im not about to let some scum with no worth just run off with my expensive belongings. A few years ago my $600 bike got stolen that my father worked 2 jobs to buy and even had to put it on lay-away to buy it. I was heading home and saw some kid with it and I knew it was mine because of some markings. I got home and it was gone. Looking back I really wish I wouldve gotten out of the car and released some anger on his face. Everytime I think of the image I have of that low life walking away with my bike my heart races and my palms get sweaty......(think little puppys, think little puppys, think little puppys)....Ok im back


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## unpopular (Apr 12, 2012)

Stradawhovious said:


> unpopular said:
> 
> 
> > Then why is it that violent crime rates are highest in regions with the most gun ownership?
> ...



Higher rates of gun ownership correlate with higher homicide rates




> Violent crimes are higher in regions with a higher population. It's simple statistics.



That's why there is per capita. Those statisticians are tricky!


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## Starskream666 (Apr 12, 2012)

I'm always worried about getting mugged or harrassed and it usually holds me back from shots. Like I'd love to get lots of city shots of people but I don't like the feeling that people will be thinking about me taking photos of them.


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## Stradawhovious (Apr 12, 2012)

belial said:


> Stradawhovious said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you could live with yourself for gunning down some scumbag for just stealing your camera, and posing no threat of bodily harm then I pity you.


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## Forkie (Apr 12, 2012)

belial said:


> Stradawhovious said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Frankly, someone who is willing to shoot someone else to protect their camera is as dangerous as someone who would shoot to take it.


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## unpopular (Apr 12, 2012)

Starskream666 said:


> I'm always worried about getting mugged or harrassed and it usually holds me back from shots. Like I'd love to get lots of city shots of people but I don't like the feeling that people will be thinking about me taking photos of them.



You know. I used to feel that way also. But eventually I just realized that the paranoia is just holding me back, and the paranoia is mine. While there is a real risk of being attacked, it's a small risk in comparison to what you miss out on.


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## Stradawhovious (Apr 12, 2012)

unpopular said:


> Stradawhovious said:
> 
> 
> > unpopular said:
> ...



Stats fro a study done at Harvard?  :lmao:

I said _RELIABLE _source.


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## unpopular (Apr 12, 2012)

I think prob I could pull something up from Wikipedia...


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## cgipson1 (Apr 12, 2012)

Forkie said:


> belial said:
> 
> 
> > Stradawhovious said:
> ...



On a philosophical level.. I disagree! WHO initiated the violence / theft? Are you saying it is OK for them to steal from someone without any retaliation... as long as no one gets hurt?

 I think if they learn that it isn't worth their life to steal.. then they are a lot less likely to steal!

What about the aftermath of a crime like that... the victim is going to be scared, terrified.. to even go to out on the street! Major mental and emotional trauma just because some a-hole figured he could get away with it! So the criminal walks away happy.. and the victim suffers for an indeterminate amount of time (maybe forever).

Can you say that is RIGHT?


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## Stradawhovious (Apr 12, 2012)

Forkie said:


> If everyone was armed all hell could break loose. People could... *I don't know, go to a school and shoot everyone.*



That can happen just as easily in the UK, since it is a criminal act, done by criminals..... only it's far less likely that anyone will be able to defend against it seeing as Law abiding folks aren't allowed to defend themselves.

We are going to have to agree to disagree. I can appreciate your point and respect your opinion, but you aren't going to change my mind.


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## Stradawhovious (Apr 12, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> Forkie said:
> 
> 
> > belial said:
> ...



Careful.... Theft and violence are two VERY different things.


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## cgipson1 (Apr 12, 2012)

unpopular said:


> Stradawhovious said:
> 
> 
> > unpopular said:
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On a polarized topic like this... it is always easy to find data that backs up your viewpoint! It would be just as easy for me to go out and find data that totally refutes your data.....


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## cgipson1 (Apr 12, 2012)

Stradawhovious said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> > Forkie said:
> ...



Theft IS Violence! It may not make someone bleed... but mentally and emotionally, it can be as devastating as getting shot!

I suppose RAPE isn't violence either.. as long as no one gets hurt?


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## unpopular (Apr 12, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> Forkie said:
> 
> 
> > belial said:
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But at what point is it OK to use deadly force? How much is a life worth? $15K camera bag, or $7.50 that some kid pick pocketed? Does it matter that the kid is a 19 year old pothead? Does it matter if the camera thief is a 40 year old tweaker?


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## LuckySe7en (Apr 12, 2012)

I wish somebody would have the nerve to try and steal my gear from me...you know what I'd do?  I would cooperatively hand it over and offer my wallet as well.  No piece of plastic nor any amount of money is worth losing my life over. 

Then I'd call the police and my insurance company.


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## Stradawhovious (Apr 12, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> Stradawhovious said:
> 
> 
> > cgipson1 said:
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Thanks for putting words in my mouth in an attempt to sway opinion. That's a real asshat move.  

Rape IS violence. Physical assault of any kind is violence. Someone pushes me to the ground to take my backpack is violence.

Someone running past and grabbing my backpack without physically assaulting me is theft.

There. Does that help clear things up? :er:


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## unpopular (Apr 12, 2012)

So if someone pushes you down, takes your backpack and keeps running, is it ok to open fire - you know, bored texan suburbanite style?


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## Stradawhovious (Apr 12, 2012)

unpopular said:


> So if someone pushes you down, takes your backpack and keeps running, is it ok to open fire - you know, bored texan suburbanite style?



I'm sorry, did I say that? Nope. Sure didn't.

Fact is it depends on where you are. Legally? In some states, yes. In most states, no. Even in the states where it is _technically _legal, it's up to a counsil of jurors to decide, and I would bet dimes to dollars you are in for 3 mediocre meals and brick walls for a couple of decades.

Morally? Not in my book, unless I'm threatened with gross bodily harm or death. A fall to the ground will not kill me, or even hurt me. Being stabbed in the throat on the other hand........


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## cgipson1 (Apr 12, 2012)

unpopular said:


> So if someone pushes you down, takes your backpack and keeps running, is it ok to open fire - you know, bored texan suburbanite style?



Prone position can be a very accurate position to shoot from.. I would do it! lol!


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## Stradawhovious (Apr 12, 2012)

unpopular said:


> I think prob I could pull something up from Wikipedia...



Ironically, it would probably be more accurate than the Harvard study.


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## cgipson1 (Apr 12, 2012)

Stradawhovious said:


> cgipson1 said:
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> 
> > Stradawhovious said:
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I was being sarcastic about the RAPE thing!

You did not address my point on the mental and emotional trauma to the victim from a "non-violent" theft? Is it FAIR for a victim to suffer like that, because some a-hole decides he can do that to them? How is that not VIOLENCE?


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