# missing plane



## bribrius (Mar 28, 2014)

is anyone else wondering why with five governments involved and a billion dollars in tech and equipment they couldn't find the plane and now still cant seem to figure out what they are doing? Out of the five hundred satellites they sent up ONE thinks they might have found pieces?

This must be how conspiracy theories happen. The story is so ludicrous  no one believes it.


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## tecboy (Mar 28, 2014)

You need to have faith.  Five nations are trying their best.


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## bribrius (Mar 28, 2014)

if they put up a missing plane poster with a sizable reward it would have already been done and for much less headache and money..


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## bribrius (Mar 28, 2014)

what if a ufo got it, sucked it up into the sky, and they are hiding it.


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## Scatterbrained (Mar 28, 2014)

It's kinda funny: when the "the plane was stolen" theories started floating around in the media; the first thing my wife asked was, "I wonder if Edward Snowden was on that plane?".


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## bribrius (Mar 28, 2014)

suppose it could happen. i forget where i parked my car once......


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## table1349 (Mar 28, 2014)

We sent over 150,000 troops to Iraq and never did find those weapons of mass destruction in 8 years.  They are looking for 1 plane in an ocean. Where is the conspiracy story?


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## robbins.photo (Mar 28, 2014)

bribrius said:


> is anyone else wondering why with five governments involved



I think you answered your own question right there.

Sent from my LG-LG730 using Tapatalk


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## Joefbs (Mar 28, 2014)

bribrius said:


> if they put up a missing plane poster with a sizable reward it would have already been done and for much less headache and money..


Ha, you would have a bunch of good ol boys out there in their Jon boats


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## ratssass (Mar 28, 2014)

...i lost one of my socks years ago.Now a plane is missing.It's starting to add up.


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## KmH (Mar 28, 2014)

It's sometimes hard to imagine just how hard it is to find something that has gone missing on an ocean.
Particularly if you don't have a good idea of where to start your search.
It took 3 weeks, on land, to find Craig D. Button - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It took them over a year to find Steve Fossett's plane - Steve Fossett - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## bribrius (Mar 28, 2014)

Joefbs said:


> bribrius said:
> 
> 
> > if they put up a missing plane poster with a sizable reward it would have already been done and for much less headache and money..
> ...


and they prolly would have found it



KmH said:


> It's sometimes hard to imagine just how hard it is to find something that has gone missing on an ocean.
> Particularly if you don't have a good idea of where to start your search.
> It took 3 weeks, on land, to find Craig D. Button - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> It took them over a year to find Steve Fossett's plane - Steve Fossett - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


but.. but... what about all the technology.


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## IronMaskDuval (Mar 28, 2014)

From what I gather, this plane didn't go missing. It was all an act and a ploy to get me thinking that this world that I live in is real and full of chaos, when in reality, it's just a well composed reality television show.


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## Steve5D (Mar 28, 2014)

Some analyst on some news show put it into pretty good perspective.

Permit me to paraphrase:

"Imagine flying a plane from New York City to Denver, Colorado, and then having to locate a single mailbox for which you had no address. It's like that".

They may find debris, but the plane will certainly never be recovered. It's gone, and it will stay gone...


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## BrickHouse (Mar 28, 2014)

Most people don't understand just how incredibly big an ocean is.


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## tirediron (Mar 28, 2014)

Unless you have actually been involved in a blue-water SAR mission it's almost impossible to appreciate the scope of the operation.  The 'plane, if it went down over water might leave a debris field of relatively small items (<10m2) which might cover at most a square mile or two.  That would very quickly dissapate as the ocean currents moved things about and the pieces became just more floating debris amongst the millions of items already out there (there's a LOT of s**t floating on the ocean's surface), and contrary to what you might read in Tom Clancy novels, there aren't a whole bunch of satellites up there that can zoom in and distinguish between part of an airliner's wing and oil drum that washed overboard from a merchant vessel.  IMO, NOT surprising in the least.


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## Newtricks (Mar 28, 2014)

bribrius said:


> is anyone else wondering why with five governments involved and a billion dollars in tech and equipment they couldn't find the plane...



They just need to look on the work bench.


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## TWright33 (Mar 28, 2014)

Guys I think we all know Jay Z and his Illuminati cronies are in on this.

Didn't you see his sign language warning about it in Beyonce's music videos?

Get with the program guys. Geeze.


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## Steve5D (Mar 28, 2014)

BrickHouse said:


> Most people don't understand just how incredibly big an ocean is.



71% of the earth's surface is water...


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## Newtricks (Mar 28, 2014)

tirediron said:


> Unless you have actually been involved in a blue-water SAR mission...



Searching thousands of square miles of open ocean is not as easy as it might seem. I spent 9 months in the Persian Gulf in the 1980's, there's more water out there than you would believe.


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## skieur (Mar 28, 2014)

This may be a dumb question but why do they NOT have a GPS in the black box?


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## astroNikon (Mar 28, 2014)

Not to rehash the news
But if the plane is in the indian ocean then it is under the surface, thousands of feet under the surface.
That makes it difficult to "visually" see it as you can't.

thus they look for debris to identify a location
debris can get water logged and sink
so something that could be there one block of hours , could be gone the next
and satellite images could also be of large white caps waves

plus, if you have been listening to the news, they have bad weather out there
and the satellite imagery also have clouds that they have to decipher from


imagine if I took your camera and put it in a field somewhere in texas.
Then it was up to you to find it based on that information.


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## KmH (Mar 28, 2014)

bribrius said:


> but.. but... what about all the technology.


Most ordinary people have no idea what the technologies involved can and can't do.

It's not a TV show, and what they have accomplished so far with the technologies available is actually unprecedented, and quite remarkable.


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## tirediron (Mar 28, 2014)

skieur said:


> This may be a dumb question but why do they NOT have a GPS in the black box?


Probably because it doesn't really care where it is.


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## Newtricks (Mar 28, 2014)

skieur said:


> This may be a dumb question but why do they NOT have a GPS in the black box?



GPS or not, once it's been turned off... it doesn't matter. This year I got a smartphone and the first thing I did was turn off GPS, I do not want to be tracked... for any reason!


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## manicmike (Mar 28, 2014)

Kind of reminds me of Lost.


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## Newtricks (Mar 28, 2014)

Bottom-line... we may never know what happened to that plane or why, I believe that if an organization was behind the highjacking, we would have heard from them. For all we know, they are sitting in Africa laughing.


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## Designer (Mar 28, 2014)

skieur said:


> This may be a dumb question but why do they NOT have a GPS in the black box?



Yeah, like the "find my phone" app.

"Find my black box"  Ta-Da!


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## Newtricks (Mar 28, 2014)

skieur said:


> This may be a dumb question but why do they NOT have a GPS in the black box?



Well for one... GPS is what we have in the USA, in other countries they have and call tracking systems by other names, there is not a universal system in place. As a whole, those of us on earth are not ready to play together, work together or be together.


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## IronMaskDuval (Mar 28, 2014)

If only they tied a bobbing fishing float on it.


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## Derrel (Mar 28, 2014)

BrickHouse said:


> Most people don't understand just how incredibly big an ocean is.



EXACTLY!!!!

I have been following the story of Flight 370 since Day 1. Ocean currents MOVE. The black box signal cannot be heard from more than about 2 miles, total, from a towed, underwater sonar unit that is dragged apprx. 1000 feet above the ocean floor. This is the proverbial needle in a haystack--in large part because the original searches were focused far from the current location, and to the east of where the plane is thought to have crashed.


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## spacefuzz (Mar 28, 2014)

I am suprised they have not brought in any UAVs.  A Global Hawk or Pred B / Grey Eagle would be perfect for this.


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## runnah (Mar 28, 2014)

Well it's always the last place you look.


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## bribrius (Mar 28, 2014)

i thought most of the materials these planes are made of are lighter than water and that they were filled with flotation devices for passengers (that i would assume would all be floating?)


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## JacaRanda (Mar 28, 2014)

Big ocean, lots of floaties, extremely difficult task.  period


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## bribrius (Mar 28, 2014)

you guys are killing my faith in the human species and its tech. This is like when the power goes out and i mysteriously lose the internet...


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## BrickHouse (Mar 28, 2014)

I actually had a patient tell me "why can't they just see it from the ships". It always amazed me, the distance distortion that happens on open water. For a 6ft tall person at sea level, the horizon is only 3 miles. For a person on the top of a ship deck, the horizon is still only 15-20 miles away. Now we're talking about looking for floating plane pieces in an ocean that has a surface area of 28,000,000 square miles. PFFFt. Why can't they see it from the ships.


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## bribrius (Mar 28, 2014)

BrickHouse said:


> I actually had a patient tell me "why can't they just see it from the ships". It always amazed me, the distance distortion that happens on open water. For a 6ft tall person at sea level, the horizon is only 3 miles. For a person on the top of a ship deck, the horizon is still only 15-20 miles away. Now we're talking about looking for floating plane pieces in an ocean that has a surface area of 28,000,000 square miles. PFFFt. Why can't they see it from the ships.



im a huge fan of satellite imagery. And with the amount of crap they send into space im a little shocked they don't have the globe covered ten times over.  im surprised they couldn't rewind a satellite "video tape" and see where it went..I'm a little surprised they have to look for it at all.  imagine if that was a flying incoming nuclear missile "oops. we lost track of it". i guess i really cant fathom this. And the weather is a problem thing. im a little shocked over that too. Especially at the u.s.. All we do is wage war. We should have been able to locate that bugger in five minutes anywhere on the globe. Isn't that what we do? Billions in defense spending and we cant find a plane? OR maybe they aren't putting that type of resources on this because it isn't a u.s. plane?


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## robbins.photo (Mar 28, 2014)

BrickHouse said:


> I actually had a patient tell me "why can't they just see it from the ships". It always amazed me, the distance distortion that happens on open water. For a 6ft tall person at sea level, the horizon is only 3 miles. For a person on the top of a ship deck, the horizon is still only 15-20 miles away. Now we're talking about looking for floating plane pieces in an ocean that has a surface area of 28,000,000 square miles. PFFFt. Why can't they see it from the ships.



So why can't they just build really tall ships?

Hmm... ok, I'll stop helping now.  Lol

Sent from my LG-LG730 using Tapatalk


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## Designer (Mar 28, 2014)

BrickHouse said:


> I actually had a patient tell me "why can't they just see it from the ships".



Does this person not realize the ships have not actually got there yet?

Anywhere close.


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## pgriz (Mar 28, 2014)

BrickHouse said:


> Most people don't understand just how incredibly big an ocean is.



Plus that general area is rough - really rough.  SAILING IN THE SOUTH INDIAN OCEAN | XS Sailing


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## JacaRanda (Mar 28, 2014)

A ping + an arc trajectory + big ocean + 20,000 or 12,000 ft altitude + fuel + bad weather + not sharing what my satellite is capable of + floating garbage + whitecaps + pilot politcal views + flight simulator = should be easy to find.   

What did I miss?  Probably about 50 more variables.


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## Designer (Mar 28, 2014)

Arc trajectory showing TWO possible directions, strong currents, elapsed time going on 3 weeks, way deep.


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## PropilotBW (Mar 28, 2014)

skieur said:


> This may be a dumb question but why do they NOT have a GPS in the black box?



How good is GPS if you're not within a satellite's view?  

I see your point, and it's a good one, but GPS requires additional battery use, which is additional weight, not to mention additional FAA Certification on the addition of GPS on a black box.  It's just not necessary in most aviation accidents.


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## bribrius (Mar 28, 2014)

why cant you all just accept that the aliens got it and they are covering it up. They probably dumped debris in the water two weeks ago so they could find it this week.


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## tirediron (Mar 28, 2014)

PropilotBW said:


> skieur said:
> 
> 
> > This may be a dumb question but why do they NOT have a GPS in the black box?
> ...


And of course, let's not forget that GPS is a passive/receive-only system.  A GPS receiver in the FDR would do exactly NOTHING to help anyone locate it.


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## astroNikon (Mar 28, 2014)

remember, an oceans waves are NOT flat.  So trying to see something floating on the surface becomes much less perceptable on a ship.  Thus the use of aircraft, which have to fly .. what was it .. 1200 miles one way to get to the location .. so a 2400 round trip and that excludes searching.

they need a couple aircraft carriers out there, then they could also launch drones.


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## JacaRanda (Mar 28, 2014)

astroNikon said:


> then they could also launch drones.



But but we (US) are the only ones that have drones  and I would rather have them spying on me than trying to find a needle in a needle.


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## bribrius (Mar 28, 2014)

it was just a the news. They found it. Someone's garage in new jersey.


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## BrickHouse (Mar 28, 2014)

bribrius said:


> it was just a the news. They found it. Someone's garage in new jersey.



Like Runnah said, always the last place!


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## astroNikon (Mar 28, 2014)

They moved the search area again, based on new calculations .. and are finding things from the air
Military finds objects in Indian Ocean in search for Malaysia plane | The Detroit News



> A number of the objects spotted Friday were white or light in color, and two were blue/gray and rectangular, AMSA said, adding that the finds needed to be confirmed by ship.Young said the hundreds of floating objects detected over the last week by satellites in the former search area, previously considered possible wreckage, &#8220;may or may not actually be objects.&#8221;
> &#8220;In regards to the old areas, we have not seen any debris and I would not wish to classify any of the satellite imagery as debris, nor would I want to classify any of the few visual sightings that we made as debris. That&#8217;s just not justifiable from what we have seen,&#8221; he said.
> 
> 
> From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140328/NATION/303280043#ixzz2xHZ3FR1X


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## table1349 (Mar 28, 2014)

Pssst.....I have it from a reliable source that this plane was actually carrying the body of Jimmy Hoffa, and the bodies of the shooters on the grassy knoll.  The plane was "lost"  in an unknown location to hide the evidence of these conspiracies.


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## TWright33 (Mar 28, 2014)

TWright33 said:


> Guys I think we all know Jay Z and his Illuminati cronies are in on this.
> 
> Didn't you see his sign language warning about it in Beyonce's music videos?
> 
> Get with the program guys. Geeze.



They were just spotted getting off of the plane


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## TWright33 (Mar 28, 2014)

TWright33 said:


> TWright33 said:
> 
> 
> > Guys I think we all know Jay Z and his Illuminati cronies are in on this.
> ...




The four stripes running the length of the plane is a sign to the Illuminati.

A group of anti Illuminati are still trying to de-bunk the code


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## astroNikon (Mar 28, 2014)

I don't really think it's a joking matter ... but to each their own


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## dxqcanada (Mar 28, 2014)

bribrius said:


> you guys are killing my faith in the human species and its tech. This is like when the power goes out and i mysteriously lose the internet...



It is not mandatory to have always-on systems on commercial airplanes that will continuously report position/status to anybody and a global service to record it. The industry and the industry regulators probably look at this vs. it's values and cost ... and concluded that this is not economically beneficial to increase safety.


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## IronMaskDuval (Mar 28, 2014)

dxqcanada said:


> bribrius said:
> 
> 
> > you guys are killing my faith in the human species and its tech. This is like when the power goes out and i mysteriously lose the internet...
> ...



Well, I don't think there's much to safety when the plane is already down, and if it was diverted, no one would have noticed anyway. The Thai saw the plane on their radar but didn't think of anything.


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## bribrius (Mar 28, 2014)

they could just forget about it and stop looking for it. i cant imagine they are going to find enough in tact to be much good at this point.  Even if they figure out what happened (unlikely), well doesn't matter much now anyway does it?


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## IronMaskDuval (Mar 28, 2014)

bribrius said:


> they could just forget about it and stop looking for it. i cant imagine they are going to find enough in tact to be much good at this point.  Even if they figure out what happened (unlikely), well doesn't matter much now anyway does it?



Maybe? It's the difference between a justified lawsuit and not.


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## pgriz (Mar 28, 2014)

Probably the main reason to keep looking for it is to determine what happened.  It won't be good for the world if planes just started to veer of course and "disappear".  There are many scenarios, and at this point none are particularly obvious as "the" answer as to why things happened.  So far, it appears that the transponders and the automatic reporting system were deliberately turned off prior to the last verbal communication.  At the exact point of handover of air traffic control (between the Malaysian and Vietnamese control centers) the plane veered off course.  The course appears to have been programmed in, which requires pilot, or at least a knowledgeable person to understands how to reset the autopilot.  The direction taken appears to have been pretty direct and at a constant altitude.  The target appears to have been one of the most isolated places on Earth, namely the southern Indian Ocean.  The suspects in the case, the pilot and co-pilot have been investigated, and other than some deleted files that were found on the pilot's home simulator, nothing pointed to links to extremism.  Most of the passengers' backgrounds were checked, and pretty much all appear to be ordinary folk.  So we have the death of 239 people in unexplained circumstances - not something we can ignore or dismiss.  All of these people had families, friends and played roles in society - and now they are "disappeared".  That is the tragedy - and the reason why efforts continue to be made.  One may question why "this" group of deceased is more in the awareness of the world compared to the death of at least 251 refugees that were crossing Lake Albert (between DR Congo and Uganda).  Probably because we can't claim direct experience with overloaded boats fleeing armed conflict, but we can imagine being on a plane and personifying the unexpected terror of learning that your destination is death.  We need to pray for both groups - we are all part of the web of humanity.  I would like to imagine that my life is at least partly under my control, and that my family will escape the seemingly random acts of violence and misfortune that we read about.  However, that could be a self-serving illusion.  Still I grieve for the lives lost.


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## astroNikon (Mar 29, 2014)

Theres already a class action lawsuit info request to malaysia and boeing .. Several days ago

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11227417


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## PaulyPMC (Mar 30, 2014)

Something about it has seemed fishy from the start. Too many conflicting stories and reports from the government of Malaysia itself. Weird. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DSRay (Mar 30, 2014)

PaulyPMC said:


> Something about it has seemed fishy from the start. Too many conflicting stories and reports from the government of Malaysia itself. Weird.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



That's because they have all these reporters that don't have the faintest clue about what they're talking about but have to fill 2 minutes of air time.  For example, when was the last time a piece of wreckage 85' long was recovered?  HINT: never.  The largest piece recovered in a similar incident in the Atlantic was the vertical stabilizer.


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## kathyt (Mar 30, 2014)

Yeah, I don't get it either. We put a microchip in our dogs just in case they go missing, but we can't find a plane with hundreds of people on it? This is supposed to be a high tech operation, right?


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## snowbear (Mar 30, 2014)

The Indian Ocean covers over 28 million square miles and an intact 777 is about 240 feet long with a wingspan of about 200 feet -- talk about a needle in a haystack.


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## mishele (Mar 30, 2014)

I know where it is...just sayin


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## pgriz (Mar 30, 2014)

Dagnabbit, Mishele - I thought we agreed we won't say anything.  Now I'm beginning to wonder what other thing you'll let slip out.   Sigh.  Training manual, chapter 12 - section 18 "There will be things that will be known to you that shall not be revealed to those who have not gone through the training, and have not mastered the art."

Really.


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## mkbstr (Mar 30, 2014)

#illuminati


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## bribrius (Mar 30, 2014)

well, on another part of this discussion. since they have no idea on this one. Has anyone noticed heightened precautions, increased security, maybe more tech requirements being considered to prevent another potential incident?

did they raise the terrorism threat level or call the cia or anything to go searching and come up with a risk analysis?


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## mishele (Mar 30, 2014)

pgriz said:


> Dagnabbit, Mishele - I thought we agreed we won't say anything.  Now I'm beginning to wonder what other thing you'll let slip out.   Sigh.  Training manual, chapter 12 - section 18 "There will be things that will be known to you that shall not be revealed to those who have not gone through the training, and have not mastered the art."
> 
> Really.



You must of missed the part in chapter 15 where it said "Mishele can do whatever she damn well pleases and you will kneel before her".  LOL


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## pgriz (Mar 30, 2014)

Funny you mention that.  Chapter 15 is the "Exceptions" chapter, and in my copy, it is written in pencil.  Hmmm.


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## snowbear (Mar 30, 2014)

mishele said:


> You must of missed the part in chapter 15 where it said "Mishele can do whatever she damn well pleases and you will kneel before her".  LOL



Actually, that's in the introduction and chapter one.


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## mishele (Mar 30, 2014)

snowbear said:


> mishele said:
> 
> 
> > You must of missed the part in chapter 15 where it said "Mishele can do whatever she damn well pleases and you will kneel before her".  LOL
> ...



You got a later copy. Paul is a prime example on why I changed things! hehe


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## table1349 (Mar 30, 2014)

kathyt said:


> Yeah, I don't get it either. We put a microchip in our dogs just in case they go missing, but we can't find a plane with hundreds of people on it? This is supposed to be a high tech operation, right?



First, there is an average of approximately 5,000 commercial aircraft in the air just in the US at any given moment, world wide it is quite a lot more.  Here is a short video that shows the air traffic for 24 hours. 



Factor in the number of military and private aircraft and the number grows even greater. 

Second, were dealing with a 3rd world country whose radar and traffic control system is probably from the 60's at best.  They have no satellites and no way to put any in orbit.  Hell the cost of one satellite would be a big chunk of their entire governments budget.  The cost of putting a satellite into obit for them is unthinkable. 

Third, contrary to popular belief the world wide tracking of aircraft isn't all that great at this point in time.BBC News - How do you track a plane?

Satellite coverage of this type gets pretty spotty over the ocean.  It's easy to loose coverage of aircraft over the oceans of the world.  

Why isn't it better?  Because people would have to pay for it.  It isn't going to be cheap and besides, that would mean more and bigger government and lord knows for some people that is a bigger mortal sin than killing someone.  

What is truly funny about that situation, they are the same ones that holler the loudest about something ought to be done and start all the crazy conspiracy theory talk.


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## bribrius (Mar 30, 2014)

i think it is a total conspiracy and i want a much smaller, near non-existent government. But i'm willing to sacrifice not knowing what happened to the plane for that. In fact i would sacrifice a thousand planes for that. I would just stop using air travel as much as the survivability rate diminished.


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## AlanKlein (Mar 30, 2014)

That's a great video. It shows one or two planes in the South Indian ocean during the day, can't see any at night.  How did the get this recording during what appears to be a 24 hours period?  How was it done?  Couldn't they see they same thing for the period when the plane disappeared.  Considering there was only one or two planes at the most, the "missing"plane should stand out like a sore thumb on an image like this.



gryphonslair99 said:


> kathyt said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, I don't get it either. We put a microchip in our dogs just in case they go missing, but we can't find a plane with hundreds of people on it? This is supposed to be a high tech operation, right?
> ...


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## table1349 (Mar 30, 2014)

bribrius said:


> i think it is a total conspiracy and i want a much smaller, near non-existent government. But i'm willing to sacrifice not knowing what happened to the plane for that. In fact i would sacrifice a thousand planes for that. I would just stop using air travel as much as the survivability rate diminished.



The Prosecution Rests.


[h=1]&#8220;The main thing that I learned about conspiracy  theory, is that conspiracy theorists believe in a conspiracy because  that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is actually  chaotic. The truth is that it is not The Iluminati, or The Jewish  Banking Conspiracy, or the Gray Alien Theory. 

The truth is far more frightening -  Nobody is in control. 

The world is rudderless.&#8221;[/h]


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## bribrius (Mar 30, 2014)

interesting quote, but it doesn't make much sense.


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## pgriz (Mar 30, 2014)

bribrius said:


> interesting quote, but it doesn't make much sense.



How so?  The quote makes sense to me - much of life is random, from a rock that finds a planet in its path, to a sinkhole that opens up underneath a house,  to a landslide, to a unbalanced person committing an act of random violence.


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## bribrius (Mar 30, 2014)

pgriz said:


> bribrius said:
> 
> 
> > interesting quote, but it doesn't make much sense.
> ...


because it isn't chaos that is feared. In fact chaos is accepted.


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## Designer (Mar 30, 2014)

gryphonslair99 said:


> *&#8220;The main thing that I learned about conspiracy  theory, is that conspiracy theorists believe in a conspiracy because  that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is actually  chaotic. The truth is that it is not The Iluminati, or The Jewish  Banking Conspiracy, or the Gray Alien Theory.
> 
> The truth is far more frightening -  Nobody is in control.
> 
> The world is rudderless.&#8221;*



Source?


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## BrickHouse (Mar 30, 2014)

Designer said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> > *&#8220;The main thing that I learned about conspiracy  theory, is that conspiracy theorists believe in a conspiracy because  that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is actually  chaotic. The truth is that it is not The Iluminati, or The Jewish  Banking Conspiracy, or the Gray Alien Theory.
> ...



Alan Moore


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## Designer (Mar 30, 2014)

BrickHouse said:


> Designer said:
> 
> 
> > gryphonslair99 said:
> ...



I've never heard of him.  I'll google him, thanks.


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## Designer (Mar 30, 2014)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Moore


OccupationComics writer, novelist, short story writer, screenwriter, musician, cartoonist, magician

gryphonslair99; To quote this person has not lent you any furtherance of credibility.


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## bribrius (Mar 30, 2014)

i was joking on believing its a  total conspiracy. As of now, im in the "not a clue camp" with everyone else.. with the same similar probabilities hijacking, accident, rogue pilot.


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## table1349 (Mar 30, 2014)

Designer said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Moore
> 
> 
> OccupationComics writer, novelist, short story writer, screenwriter, musician, cartoonist, magician
> ...



Like I give a rat's @$$.  Truth and common sense come in many forms from many people.


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## bribrius (Mar 30, 2014)

is stupider a word now?



edit: just looked it up. apparently it is. i'm a little surprised it is, but apparently it is. Most people probably avoid using it. However, i just learned something i didn't know before . Thanks


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## Josh66 (Mar 30, 2014)

AlanKlein said:


> That's a great video. It shows one or two planes in the South Indian ocean during the day, can't see any at night.  How did the get this recording during what appears to be a 24 hours period?  How was it done?  Couldn't they see they same thing for the period when the plane disappeared.  Considering there was only one or two planes at the most, the "missing"plane should stand out like a sore thumb on an image like this.


It's most likely just made from compiling a list of departure/arrival cities and flight times/routes.  I doubt there's any actual 'recording' going on.


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## ratssass (Mar 30, 2014)

bribrius said:


> is stupider a word now?
> 
> 
> 
> edit: just looked it up. apparently it is. i'm a little surprised it is, but apparently it is. Most people probably avoid using it. However, i just learned something i didn't know before . Thanks



...and you are now less stupider,which in the long run makes you a more better,if not,betterer,person.


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## table1349 (Mar 30, 2014)

My apologies to you ratssass, I didn't mean to take your handle in vain in a previous post.


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## table1349 (Mar 30, 2014)

bribrius said:


> is stupider a word now?
> 
> 
> 
> edit: just looked it up. apparently it is. i'm a little surprised it is, but apparently it is. Most people probably avoid using it. However, i just learned something i didn't know before . Thanks


Yep.... Here's another one for you.  Ain't is also a word.  It's just not one that is part of standard English and should be used in formal contexts.


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## bribrius (Mar 30, 2014)

hypothetical.


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## mishele (Mar 30, 2014)

Putin has it!!


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## ratssass (Mar 30, 2014)

gryphonslair99 said:


> My apologies to you ratssass, I didn't mean to take your handle in vain in a previous post.



...duly noted,while you are now on the radar,you are not on *The List.*_...but I am watching you..*Very Carefully.....
*_

...and for some reason I want to giggle everytime I hear "poooootin'"       sounds like the act of a 2 yr old,takin' a dump


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## table1349 (Mar 30, 2014)

ratssass said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> > My apologies to you ratssass, I didn't mean to take your handle in vain in a previous post.
> ...


Well I guess if I am on the RADAR then I will have a hard time getting lost over the Indian Ocean.   Well unless you and I enter into a conspiracy to hijack the plane and fly it to the moon to sit along side the WW II bomber on the moon.

From the conspiracy theory bible:


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## bribrius (Mar 30, 2014)

...


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## bribrius (Mar 30, 2014)

...


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## table1349 (Mar 30, 2014)

bogeyguy said:


> bribrius said:
> 
> 
> > BrickHouse said:
> ...


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## bribrius (Mar 30, 2014)

mishele said:


> Putin has it!!



But really, who knows? Everyone is just kind of waiting around, to find out?


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## ramtop (Mar 31, 2014)

Everybody is missing the obvious, it's in the "Bermuda Triangle" with all the other missing ships and planes.


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## terri (Apr 1, 2014)

Okay guys...let's remember that there are no political discussions allowed on this forum.   There are many aspects to this story that are discussion worthy, but political agendas are not allowed here.   

You may take it to the "Subscribers Forum", which is a hidden forum for TPF subscribers, and is largely un-moderated.   That is the only area where hot button topics may be openly discussed.   Otherwise, posts that are in violation of TPF guidelines will continue to be removed, and continued violators of the guidelines may face action on their accounts.   Sorry, but that's the way it is here - you gotta pay to play, so to speak.    

Thanks!


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## bribrius (Apr 1, 2014)

terri said:


> Okay guys...let's remember that there are no political discussions allowed on this forum. There are many aspects to this story that are discussion worthy, but political agendas are not allowed here.
> 
> You may take it to the "Subscribers Forum", which is a hidden forum for TPF subscribers, and is largely un-moderated. That is the only area where hot button topics may be openly discussed. Otherwise, posts that are in violation of TPF guidelines will continue to be removed, and continued violators of the guidelines may face action on their accounts. Sorry, but that's the way it is here - you gotta pay to play, so to speak.
> 
> Thanks!


umm. individual or group political agendas, and general geopolitics (kind of like context of general history) are a little different no? How would you totally avoid politics in all conversations when governments involvement is politics?


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## table1349 (Apr 1, 2014)

The Bermuda Triangle is Political???:mrgreen:


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## terri (Apr 1, 2014)

bribrius said:


> terri said:
> 
> 
> > Okay guys...let's remember that there are no political discussions allowed on this forum. There are many aspects to this story that are discussion worthy, but political agendas are not allowed here.
> ...



I would "totally avoid politics in all conversations when governments involvement is politics" by remembering this simple TPF guideline, from the FAQ's here:



> * No general politics are allowed.   If the political discussion  involves photography, it may be allowed.   Use common sense when posting  anything of a political nature.



There is no mention of photography in the edited comments.  To repeat: if you wish to continue this discussion on a political level, you must take it to the Subscribers forum.   Thanks!


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## terri (Apr 1, 2014)

gryphonslair99 said:


> The Bermuda Triangle is Political???:mrgreen:



It's not been edited, has it?    :mrgreen:


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## table1349 (Apr 1, 2014)

Oh...................This has the potential to get REAL interesting.


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## Designer (Apr 1, 2014)

You first.


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## astroNikon (Apr 1, 2014)

I can't believe there is a pay only room ? (non-political statement)

I also can't believe they haven't found anything yet related to the plane.  Not a thing.


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## 3Js (Apr 1, 2014)

gryphonslair99 said:


> We sent over 150,000 troops to Iraq and never did find those weapons of mass destruction in 8 years.  They are looking for 1 plane in an ocean. Where is the conspiracy story?



150,000 troops couldn't find the weapons of mass destruction because there were none to be found. Are you saying there is no plane to be found?

Maybe because it is safelly put away until it is needed for whatever?

I have no problem finding a conspiracy theory here... Especially with so many governments making a huge show of trying to find the darn thing.

I am always amazed at how few people remember ridiculing others for their conspiracy theories once the the proofs come out explaining exactly what the conspiracy freaks were saying all along...


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## 3Js (Apr 1, 2014)

mishele said:


> pgriz said:
> 
> 
> > Dagnabbit, Mishele - I thought we agreed we won't say anything.  Now I'm beginning to wonder what other thing you'll let slip out.   Sigh.  Training manual, chapter 12 - section 18 "There will be things that will be known to you that shall not be revealed to those who have not gone through the training, and have not mastered the art."
> ...



Sorry, I will not kneel before some darn rodent.


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## table1349 (Apr 1, 2014)

astroNikon said:


> I can't believe there is a pay only room ? (non-political statement)
> 
> I also can't believe they haven't found anything yet related to the plane.  Not a thing.


The earth has a surface area of 197,000,000  square miles.  The plane is 242 feet long with a 199 foot wing span.  Like looking for a needle in an entire Section of hay field.


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## bribrius (Apr 1, 2014)

3Js said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> > We sent over 150,000 troops to Iraq and never did find those weapons of mass destruction in 8 years. They are looking for 1 plane in an ocean. Where is the conspiracy story?
> ...


oh come on. The reason the u.s. was so determined he had wmd is because we sold it to him.  :mrgreen:  (is that political?)

watching the news last night, it said a lot of the nations involved weren't being completely honest. no way.


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## table1349 (Apr 1, 2014)

3Js said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> > We sent over 150,000 troops to Iraq and never did find those weapons of mass destruction in 8 years.  They are looking for 1 plane in an ocean. Where is the conspiracy story?
> ...


You mean there are flying saucers and little green men?


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## bribrius (Apr 1, 2014)

gryphonslair99 said:


> astroNikon said:
> 
> 
> > I can't believe there is a pay only room ? (non-political statement)
> ...


did you catch the part on the news where they were apparently mis directed in the search because one of the nations involved failed to mention it crossed over on their radar?


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## Gavjenks (Apr 1, 2014)

I'm a little out of date on the "facts" "known" so far, but my two favorite unsubstantiated theories were:

1) Oxygen failure of some sort
* Crew members mumble incoherently on last transmissions
* They are oxygen deprived and make stupid decisions, like deciding to switch the transponder to some other mode in an attempt to communicate, and ending up turning it off or putting it in a useless mode instead from delirium. And perhaps they turn the plane somewhere in an attempt to land in time
* They then pass out too soon to finish whatever they were planning, and the plane just drifts along in autopilot without any transponder to know where it is, in some random direction, until running out of fuel and crashing in the ocean somewhere in the middle of nowhere.
* Basically this exact same thing happened with a Greek flight not too long ago, except that they had their transponder on still. They were escorted by fighter planes after being located, for several hours until the plane ran out of fuel and crashed into a mountain.

2) Pilots or passenger(s) hijack the plane, turning at the last moment to intersect the flight path of another plane, which they then follow immediately on top of and behind to get past military radar (which may be able to detect an anomaly, but would be unlikely to have a major cause to worry much about it yet)
* Explains sudden last minute turn in conjunction with transponder going off (commercial planes would be blind to somebody right on top of them with no transponder on)
* There actually was a plane almost directly in line to intersect with them right around when they turned and disappeared.
* That plane was headed northwest, in the direction they seemed to have turned, and passed over India and Pakistan, providing RADAR confusion through those hot areas.
* The hijacked plane could then peel off somewhere remote in the middle east or western Asia, and land.
* If the pilot, this also explains extensive flight simulation preparations to perform the tricky and dangerous maneuver of flying in another plane's shadow.


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## bribrius (Apr 1, 2014)

Gavjenks said:


> I'm a little out of date on the "facts" "known" so far, but my two favorite unsubstantiated theories were:
> 
> 1) Oxygen failure of some sort
> * Crew members mumble incoherently on last transmissions
> ...


interesting. I was just reading on the suspected passenger list and why someone might want some of them gone. something to consider... everything from workers of a u.s. semiconductor company to Chinese softeware engineers working on some project. not sure how much of it is true...


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## JacaRanda (Apr 1, 2014)

So finding it should still be easy right?

The satellites have done a really nice job of seeing all the garbage we put into the oceans.  Can't wait for someone to say that is a lie or it's not as bad as it looks.


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## ratssass (Apr 1, 2014)

JacaRanda said:


> So finding it should still be easy right?
> 
> The satellites have done a really nice job of seeing all the garbage we put into the oceans.  Can't wait for someone to say that is a lie or it's not as bad as it looks.



ya know,i said to the bride the other night "...all this garbage they're finding,ya think anyone of them are picking it up?"I'll bet they treat it like a 10 yr old kid does if he sees dog **** on the sidewalk."Someone else will get that."


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## astroNikon (Apr 1, 2014)

gryphonslair99 said:


> astroNikon said:
> 
> 
> > I can't believe there is a pay only room ? (non-political statement)
> ...



I know .. I totally understand
and it's worse than that .. a needle will stay relatively still.  and the hayfield isn't really moving and doesn't have a 3 dimensional fluid depth.


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## bribrius (Apr 1, 2014)

JacaRanda said:


> So finding it should still be easy right?
> 
> The satellites have done a really nice job of seeing all the garbage we put into the oceans. Can't wait for someone to say that is a lie or it's not as bad as it looks.



at this point, I am assuming it already is found. someone knows where it is. They would have to by now. Maybe it was never lost.  They just aren't saying where it is. so now it wouldn't be "lost" but rather the information on where it went hidden.  For what reason, or how long, I wouldn't have a clue. But at this point, three weeks looking, it isn't lost. There is no way, this is lost. someone just isn't talking yet.


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## Gavjenks (Apr 1, 2014)

> at this point, I am assuming it already is found. someone knows where it is. They would have to by now.


 
Based on what?

The software does not exist at this point to automatically search over 1,000,000 square miles, probably with satellites that only have 1m^2 precision or so (ones exist that have more, but they are very narrow angle of view and inefficient for something like this and they would be likely occupied on more important missions), and actually detect plane debris with any reliability.

Remember, it's NOT a big plane shaped image. If it crashed, it's a bunch of little 1 pixel maybe bits of image noise, which somehow the software has to distinguish from waves to identify them as chunks of plane instead of reflections (and if it landed, it's in a hangar and you won't see it anyway, nor be able to distinguish it from almost any other plane). That sort of image detection technology simply doesn't exist yet.

Honestly, the technology for identifying whole intact planes/buildings automatically is not even that super great -- the military seriously still outsources this sort of stuff to humans on the internet on places like Amazon Mechanical Turk (I'm not kidding) for entire building identification. Using software on low-res images to detect little pieces of them amidst literally a sea of noise? *No way.*

Which means you either need many more than 3 weeks of scanning with higher-res/high-demand satellites/planes, or maybe some humans might be able to detect possible hits from the low res data. But a human examining a 1,000 x 1,000 pixel image at a rate of 1 per minute, working 40 hours a week would require approximately *30 years* to go through all of the 3 trillion square meters of data from within the plane's fuel range.

To go through the data manually in a mere 3 weeks would thus require *500+ trained image analysts. *Nobody cares THAT much.

To search by plane and ship over a 600 mile radius would require similarly astronomical amounts of time or resources, that probably don't even exist in quantities sufficient to do this in 3 weeks, assuming they had nothing better to do even (which most of them do). I don't know where you're getting the notion that it "must have" been found after 3 weeks.


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## bribrius (Apr 1, 2014)

Gavjenks said:


> > at this point, I am assuming it already is found. someone knows where it is. They would have to by now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


ummm. no



gryphonslair99 said:


> astroNikon said:
> 
> 
> > I can't believe there is a pay only room ? (non-political statement)
> ...



This isn't like that though is it? Looking for a downed plane, taking a long time, isn't what is unusual here. What is unusual here is they don't even know if it went down. There is a multination campaign going on looking for it. The transponder was shutoff to try to hide its flight path. No one has spoken up to claim credit for hijacking it yet and it appears for whatever reason to have totally diverted from its flight path..
Other missing planes, they are pretty sure they crashed, they have some record of its path and it stayed pretty much on path with a transponder, and they don't have this many nations looking for it. I wouldn't suggest it is easy to find a plane in a vast ocean. But they are making a big show of this, and this plane it appears someone purposely wanted it not to be found. The most likelihood is a probably hijacking, but usually in a hijacking someone takes credit for its destruction or asks for a ransom. One could assume a malfunction causing a crash, but in such case not a single radio message or alert? Seems it was purposely meant to , "disappear". 

im pretty sure we do have the technology to track and find that plane. But perhaps you are right when you say "nobody cares THAT much". so far I have seen use of generic imaging satellites, like weather satellites. if they have a thousand satellites orbiting the earth what are the other 800 radar and war satellites doing?
sorry guys, ive been out of the military now for years. But even then, I think if we really wanted to we would have known where that thing was. And im pretty sure the technology has improved a lot since then. I just really, don't believe it.


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## tirediron (Apr 1, 2014)

bribrius said:


> ...The transponder was shutoff to try to hide its flight path.


Isn't this just supposition?  How do we know that it was turned off and didn't simply fail?



bribrius said:


> ...No one has spoken up to claim credit for hijacking


Again, how do you know it was a highjacking?  



bribrius said:


> ...But they are making a big show of this, and this plane it appears someone purposely wanted it not to be found.


Have you ever been involved in an open-ocean SAR?



bribrius said:


> ... The most likelihood is a probably hijacking, but usually in a hijacking someone takes credit for its destruction or asks for a ransom. One could assume a malfunction causing a crash, but in such case not a single radio message or alert? Seems it was purposely meant to , "disappear".


Sounds rather Tom Clancy-eque to me.



bribrius said:


> ...im pretty sure we do have the technology to track and find that plane. But perhaps you are right when you say "nobody cares THAT much". so far I have seen use of generic imaging satellites, like weather satellites. if they have a thousand satellites orbiting the earth what are the other 800 radar and war satellites doing?
> sorry guys, ive been out of the military now for years. But even then, I think if we really wanted to we would have known where that thing was. And im pretty sure the technology has improved a lot since then. I just really, don't believe it.


It just ain't that easy.


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## bribrius (Apr 1, 2014)

tirediron said:


> bribrius said:
> 
> 
> > ...The transponder was shutoff to try to hide its flight path.
> ...


you rule out and add up coincidences. im not pretending to know. im totally out of the loop. I just don't believe it.


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## table1349 (Apr 1, 2014)

bribrius said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> > bribrius said:
> ...


So what you are saying is that you beliefs in this situation are based on a *S.W.A.G.* on your part.


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## bribrius (Apr 1, 2014)

gryphonslair99 said:


> bribrius said:
> 
> 
> > tirediron said:
> ...


well I wouldn't go that far....
who knows, maybe they will turn it up...


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## table1349 (Apr 1, 2014)

bribrius said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> > bribrius said:
> ...


*waffling (&#712;w&#594;f[SUP]&#601;[/SUP]l&#618;&#331*

*Definitions*

*noun*



(British, informal, pejorative) the act of speaking or writing in a vague and wordy manner 
(US) if someone is waffling on an issue or question, they cannot decide what to do or what                their opinion is about it 

How to Grow a Backbone


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## bribrius (Apr 1, 2014)

gryphonslair99 said:


> bribrius said:
> 
> 
> > gryphonslair99 said:
> ...


yeah I know. im purposely avoiding. what was the question again? lol.
oh yeah, the aliens got it. Preemptive alien invasion


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## Gavjenks (Apr 1, 2014)

bribrius said:


> ummm. no
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My numbers were for a 600 mile radius, not the whole earth, since the plane didn't have enough fuel to go anywhere in the Earth (unless it refueled in which case hijacking in which case it's not gonna get found by looking at satellites anyway)



> Other missing planes, they are pretty sure they crashed, they have some record of its path and it stayed pretty much on path with a transponder


Yep, you just described exactly the differences that explain why you SHOULDN'T assume that they have found it yet, unlike normal plane crashes (which by the way they definitely don't always actually find very quickly).




> what are the other 800 radar and war satellites doing?


What they were sent up there to do, duh! Telling drivers which way to go to get to the nearest Costco, routing phone calls, telling armies where to go bomb things, helping people figure out whether to bring umbrellas to work, etc.
Also most of them aren't equipped to that sort of task anyway. There are currently 1,167 artificial operational satellites total. Of those about 100 are for surveillance of some sort, of which one should assume only a tiny fraction would be devoted long term to something as frivolous as looking for some random commercial airliner, especially since everybody on it is already long since either dead or being held somewhere that satellites won't find them.


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## manaheim (Apr 1, 2014)

****ing Smurfs did it. The ****ing smurfed the ****ing smurf right out of the ****ing sky.

****ing smurfs.

As a side note, has anyone ever pondered the implication of using your species name as an expletive?


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## ratssass (Apr 1, 2014)

Manny..........PLEASE DON'T INTERRUPT!!!...I've now lost my whole train of thought.....


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## mishele (Apr 1, 2014)

runnah took it!!


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## PropilotBW (Apr 1, 2014)

bribrius said:


> they could just forget about it and stop looking for it. i cant imagine they are going to find enough in tact to be much good at this point.  Even if they figure out what happened (unlikely), well doesn't matter much now anyway does it?



You obviously have no clue how aviation has become so safe, do you?  All procedures are developed from others mishaps, to avoid it from happening again.  Comair in Lexington, Ky; Air France; Colgan in Buffalo, NY, just to name the most recent which have resulted in drastic government and corporate regulation changes for operators.


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## AlanKlein (Apr 1, 2014)

It took them about 50 years to find the Titanic at about two miles deep , a huge ship, where they knew the general location where it sank.  They may never find this plane assuming it wasn't hijacked and hidden for some nefarious future purpose.


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