# Help! Upset clients say they got jipped!



## Esperanza86

/Hello! I am needing some advice from anyone who has been through something similar or has dealt with upset customers. Basically I have a couple who I took photos for at the end of October who have been hounding me since last week with complaints. Last week it was that they did not like five photos in the batch they wanted me to re- edit them. I re-edited them because This is my first year working as a photographer and I thought- well I want them to be happy and I understand not everyone likes a certain style of editing. So I did what they asked. They replied to their new images that they loved them- they were more what they were looking for. Then Yesterday the woman messages me and says "Why won't the website you recommended print larger than a 8x10- so then I proceeded to tell her it is because the file size and resolution are too small. I told her that I cannot change the resolution because my computer broke (along with our vehicle last week). I told her that as soon as I get it working I will change the resolution for an additional fee. I explained to her that the reason I was much cheaper than many of our local photographers is that I do not "include" high resolution photos. They are an optional add on (usually when my computer works). She can still print up to 8x10 with good quality at this point. She then proceeded to send me this following message - So here's where I'm at....do you still have the original images?  We have a friend that works at a printing company that can work with them especially if they were taken with a high resolution camera. Will you release those to us on a disc or whatever and you can go ahead and have the jump drive of the edited images sent to us and we can call it done?---- 
I then sent her an article from the PPA website about copyright and explained to her that I do all of my own editing. I told her that what she was asking was illegal if she did it. I also told her that if the friend was employed or professional they will understand. I explained to her that I shot the session, edited and re edited the photos, ordered the jumpdrive, and the work she paid for is done. I told her the images she has are printable just not larger than 8x10. I never mentioned the add on because I was not aware she wanted a large art print. Honestly have never had a customer order one that I know of. I only charged her $100 all together. She then sent me this message- Listen...I'm trying to be kind. We did not get what we paid for. You recommended a website to print from and I can't even do that with the images your provided. Calling those printable ia not fair. How many people you have taken pictures for only especially to print a 4x6 at most. I have not given you or your business a bad review trying to address this with you like adults. I'm not paying for high resolution images that we expect to receive as soon as your computer is fixed. You may want to make a contract or something with your customers so they know what they are getting. Just a suggeation. I learned my lesson and have been educated now on what questions to ask. And that I thank you for. I got quotes from 3 other photographers before we chose you. There prices for the "sitting fee" and disc were not a huge amount off of yours.  I did my homework and we chose to go with the new photographer in the hopes that she succeeds and has a successful business. This is by no means where I wanted this to end up.

I will be making my clients sign contracts from now on. I have printed my own images at 8x10's so I know they print well. I need help on how to fix this or calm her down!!! I thought about asking to meet with her face to face and have printed images from her gallery to show her the quality in person? That way I can have proof that they are printable and look good. She is making it sound as if none of what I worked on is printable or quality. I just feel that I did the work they paid for- I went to their home, shot the session, got all the poses and lighting I we needed, got them having fun and laughing during their session, edited and re-edited photos, gave them their online gallery with the option of downloading all images, and they are getting the jumpdrive. I am very hurt that she is claiming I fooled her and they didn't get what they paid for. I have a Nikon D5300 and a prime Nikkor 1.8 lens. I love my camera and lens. I have shot ten paid sessions or so and Photographed my own child throughout the whole year (to get more experience)I have never had such a complaint from any one. I recommended Mpix.com to her just as an fyi. Any ideas???! I am so lost as to what to do before she reviews my page as terrible. I am not the greatest photographer but I am not the worst. Here are a couple of images from her session.


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## Scatterbrained

Why can't the images you sent them be printed larger than 8x10?  Did you crop them so much that you killed the resolution? Did you intentionally send them low rez files?

 I see a lot going on in your post that needs to be addressed.   From the way you're going about this business to the images themselves.  I'm sure you'll hear a lot from a few of the members here about what your doing wrong, and what you need to do.

  Personally I think that you've made a few key missteps here.  First, you don't have a contract.   I'm sure right now you're kicking yourself for not having one.  This kind of situation can go round and round when you have no document spelling out your obligations or your customers expectations.  There are two ways to extricate yourself.  You can put your foot down and insist you've done all you're required to do, and you'd be within your right to do that, or you can do what you need to do to keep the client happy.   I come from a small business background so I tend to lean towards doing what needs to be done to ensure client satisfaction (within reason).    In this situation full resolution images should have been delivered.  The fee you're charging is low, but don't equate file size to fee size.  Equate image quality to fee size, and right now you're not there yet.   

Second, your computers broke? Seriously?  Yet you're posting images here?  To me that just comes off as disingenuous.   If you have Ps you can resize there, or you can get a copy of OnOne Perfect Resize.  You've already hindered yourself by not having a contract,again by pulling the whole "my computer's down" line after delivering unusable files, and it's going to hit you once more when they print the images and they realize that their skin looks sunburnt, they are out of focus and there are obvious dodge halos around them.  

My advice: fix the skin tones of the images for print (see a primer here:http://help.smugmug.com/customer/portal/articles/93363 ), send the full resolution files, apologize for the inconvenience, and hope it all works out.   Then, start looking for a contract.


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## cauzimme

I'm truly sorry, but I wouldn't have paid for those and I'm pretty liberal with money.
The focus of the first is not even on the eyes, backlight is nice, Second photo, they are way too far to be interesting. Last one is probably the best, I like how the light reflects on her hair, don't like that you cut the hand.

Overall I think it could have been better, and if it's the kind of picture you gave your client, well, sorry, I agree with them. 

Now by no mean i'm an expert, but i'm better in business than in photography.
You need to have a contract. Be clear with what their getting, some people are never happy. I'm photographying girls free and sometimes they even complain, hey I want more pics, yeah I already postprocess 10, enough lady. May I have high rez original, hum no, I don't do that. People are people.... They will always try to find a way to get more, and more. If you gave them to much latitude, they sure will take full advantage.

I already shot a girl (I was younger) was friend with didn't made her sign a model release, I live in Québec, even street photography where some people is so-so recognizable is not okay without a model release. A years later, she had my photos in her port I had the same in mine, she flips on, we had a fight and she was all about you can't use my photo anymore, you never made me fill a model realease, take them off of everywhere.

**** can hit the fan quick, everybody have a different way to react. We don't behave all the same... Protect your ass first. Make sure to explain people what they will get, what they won't what's their option. Cover your ass! Also, keep photographying and practicing, that's the most important thing. Even if you don't charge a lot, people are still paying so they will expect the best of you, they are the clients, right, don't forget that. They are paying you, you are not by any means doing them a favor, even if you charge low price...


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## astroNikon

^^ what they said

I couldn't get past the your "computer is broken" and yet you are posting images on a website.  And the first photo has too shallow a Depth of Field (Aperture) and wrong focusing point so the people's faces  are out of focus.

and the "no" contract thing ... that's the reason people use contracts.

As mentioned, you either make the customer happy as much as you can or stand pat.  That's about the only 2 options you have ... after you fix your computer of course.

btw, your "softness of skin" (in another thread) is actually out of focus skin.


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## tirediron

I'm going to be a little more direct:  Refund the clients their money, apologize, and give them whatever usable files you may have.   Normally I would suggest you offer a re-shoot, but in this case I'm not sure there is any point.  You need to take a pause from the business and learn more about photography and a LOT more about business.  WHY are they only getting files that will print to 4x6?  I could print decent 8x10s from my very first 2.something Mp digital body....  WHY are you allowing the customer to print the files?  That's a HUGE amount of money you're leaving on the table... 

I too would be VERY unhappy with a product like this.


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## jcdeboever

I thought the customer has a point and seemed very polite and direct in her approach.

As a business man, *I never give my customers excuses.* I built my business on doing what I said I was going to do, it's the model. The only time I can not deliver to a customer is on short weeks during Holidays but every customer is called in plenty of advance and their service requirements are met to their satisfaction. I had an independent company survey my customers and 98%, that's right *98%*, mentioned consistency as the #1 reason they are loyal to the company. The survey did not lead them, they simply asked why they did business with our company. The 2% said quality of product and service. the survey is used to attract new business and has been well worth the investment.


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## tirediron

jcdeboever said:


> I thought the customer has a point and seemed very polite and direct in her approach.
> 
> As a business man, *I never give my customers excuses.* I built my business on doing what I said I was going to do, it's the model. The only time I can not deliver to a customer is on short weeks during Holidays but every customer is called in plenty of advance and their service requirements are met to their satisfaction. I had an independent company survey my customers and 98%, that's right *98%*, mentioned consistency as the #1 reason they are loyal to the company. The survey did not lead them, they simply asked why they did business with our company. The 2% said quality of product and service.


 This.  Exactly.  It is impossible to overstate the value of delivering the product you agreed to in a timely manner.  Excuses are just that.  It happens very rarely, but if I dohave a problem, the first thing I do is call the customer and explain the issue, and what courses of action are available.  The most important motto in businesses such as ours is, "Under promise and over-deliver".  When clients ask how long it will take to get their prints (NOTE: I said prints, NOT digital files.  I do sell those, but they cost!), I usually add at least 1 week onto what I think is the longest possible time it will take.  I also usually throw in a bonus, "I know you only ordered X, Y, and Z, but when I was processing the set, I really liked Q, so here's a complimentary 5x7 - that costs me about 90 cents but in terms of customer relations?  It's priceless.


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## jcdeboever

tirediron said:


> jcdeboever said:
> 
> 
> 
> I thought the customer has a point and seemed very polite and direct in her approach.
> 
> As a business man, *I never give my customers excuses.* I built my business on doing what I said I was going to do, it's the model. The only time I can not deliver to a customer is on short weeks during Holidays but every customer is called in plenty of advance and their service requirements are met to their satisfaction. I had an independent company survey my customers and 98%, that's right *98%*, mentioned consistency as the #1 reason they are loyal to the company. The survey did not lead them, they simply asked why they did business with our company. The 2% said quality of product and service.
> 
> 
> 
> This.  Exactly.  It is impossible to overstate the value of delivering the product you agreed to in a timely manner.  Excuses are just that.  It happens very rarely, but if I dohave a problem, the first thing I do is call the customer and explain the issue, and what courses of action are available.  The most important motto in businesses such as ours is, "Under promise and over-deliver".  When clients ask how long it will take to get their prints (NOTE: I said prints, NOT digital files.  I do sell those, but they cost!), I usually add at least 1 week onto what I think is the longest possible time it will take.  I also usually throw in a bonus, "I know you only ordered X, Y, and Z, but when I was processing the set, I really liked Q, so here's a complimentary 5x7 - that costs me about 90 cents but in terms of customer relations?  It's priceless.
Click to expand...

The guy I worked a wedding with does this exact thing. I learned a lot that day and was amazed by all the work that goes into doing a wedding, now I see why they charge what they do. He had a contract. 

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## Dave442

Sounds like you have already spent more time trying to resolve this issue than was taken initially to work out what the client wanted. It sounds like they wanted some large framed and mounted prints and they saw your offer as a low cost option to get the images to have those made. By offering the images on a disc, but not informing the customer that those are not full resolution and that full resolution has an extra cost is a major communication problem.  

The excuse with the computer, that is an issue internal to your business and the customer is not interested in that, just give them the delivery date. 

I think tirediron gave the best option to resolve the issue with this client.


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## OGsPhotography

Give her the picture no more excuses. Then stop charging people until you feel more comfortable with the camera, and people. It will only get harder for you this way.

Money back would help a lot in this situation, you completely dropped the ball. No one cares that you take pictures of your own child.


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## astroNikon

jcdeboever said:


> The guy I worked a wedding with does this exact thing. I learned a lot that day and was amazed by all the work that goes into doing a wedding, now I see why they charge what they do. He had a contract.


I've 2nd shot a few.  Too much planning, post processing work, wedding albums, etc etc  for me to do one as primary.  I'll 2nd shoot but not primary.   It's fun and I'm going to keep it at like that.


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## jcdeboever

astroNikon said:


> jcdeboever said:
> 
> 
> 
> The guy I worked a wedding with does this exact thing. I learned a lot that day and was amazed by all the work that goes into doing a wedding, now I see why they charge what they do. He had a contract.
> 
> 
> 
> I've 2nd shot a few.  Too much planning, post processing work, wedding albums, etc etc  for me to do one as primary.  I'll 2nd shoot but not primary.   It's fun and I'm going to keep it at like that.
Click to expand...

I helped him post process. It took us four hours and I forget how many pics there were but there was a lot. His image quality was so good that it was pretty painless to say the least. I think that impressed me more than anything about him as a photographer. He said it took many years to learn that. Pretty much everything was auto enhance and sharpen 4 in his software. He did all the Dodge burn and healing on the money shots. I want to say there was 700 pics in total. He used Snapfish to create the album, and I looked at it the other night and it was absolutely stunning. He really knows what he is doing and was well compensated for the gig. I did the video with a Sony rx100 or 10 I don't remember. And help him set up all the lights and basically did whatever he told me to do. He was very happy with the video that I did and let me tell you I was nervous. He said I could work with him again anytime and appreciated my cooperation and listening to instruction. I'm not sure if I will work with him again because he is retiring to Arizona

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## Esperanza86

Scatterbrained said:


> Why can't the images you sent them be printed larger than 8x10?  Did you crop them so much that you killed the resolution? Did you intentionally send them low rez files?
> 
> I see a lot going on in your post that needs to be addressed.   From the way you're going about this business to the images themselves.  I'm sure you'll hear a lot from a few of the members here about what your doing wrong, and what you need to do.
> 
> Personally I think that you've made a few key missteps here.  First, you don't have a contract.   I'm sure right now you're kicking yourself for not having one.  This kind of situation can go round and round when you have no document spelling out your obligations or your customers expectations.  There are two ways to extricate yourself.  You can put your foot down and insist you've done all you're required to do, and you'd be within your right to do that, or you can do what you need to do to keep the client happy.   I come from a small business background so I tend to lean towards doing what needs to be done to ensure client satisfaction (within reason).    In this situation full resolution images should have been delivered.  The fee you're charging is low, but don't equate file size to fee size.  Equate image quality to fee size, and right now you're not there yet.
> 
> Second, your computers broke? Seriously?  Yet you're posting images here?  To me that just comes off as disingenuous.   If you have Ps you can resize there, or you can get a copy of OnOne Perfect Resize.  You've already hindered yourself by not having a contract,again by pulling the whole "my computer's down" line after delivering unusable files, and it's going to hit you once more when they print the images and they realize that their skin looks sunburnt, they are out of focus and there are obvious dodge halos around them.
> 
> My advice: fix the skin tones of the images for print (see a primer here:http://help.smugmug.com/customer/portal/articles/93363 ), send the full resolution files, apologize for the inconvenience, and hope it all works out.   Then, start looking for a contract.


I think I sent them a file too small. Thank You for the advice! I appreciate it. Yes I can post photos from my iphone and edit them a small bit on there as well from PS express and touch- they sync with my computer. I can resize images from these apps but cannot do anything about resolution. I am deciding to not do anymore paid sessions until I have more experience as well. This is my very first year doing all of this so I thought this was a good way to get experience. I love doing it but you are right- I need to have some other things in line first. Thank You so much! My computer breaking may have been for a reason. It may have been a sign lol.


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## Esperanza86

cauzimme said:


> I'm truly sorry, but I wouldn't have paid for those and I'm pretty liberal with money.
> The focus of the first is not even on the eyes, backlight is nice, Second photo, they are way too far to be interesting. Last one is probably the best, I like how the light reflects on her hair, don't like that you cut the hand.
> 
> Overall I think it could have been better, and if it's the kind of picture you gave your client, well, sorry, I agree with them.
> 
> Now by no mean i'm an expert, but i'm better in business than in photography.
> You need to have a contract. Be clear with what their getting, some people are never happy. I'm photographying girls free and sometimes they even complain, hey I want more pics, yeah I already postprocess 10, enough lady. May I have high rez original, hum no, I don't do that. People are people.... They will always try to find a way to get more, and more. If you gave them to much latitude, they sure will take full advantage.
> 
> I already shot a girl (I was younger) was friend with didn't made her sign a model release, I live in Québec, even street photography where some people is so-so recognizable is not okay without a model release. A years later, she had my photos in her port I had the same in mine, she flips on, we had a fight and she was all about you can't use my photo anymore, you never made me fill a model realease, take them off of everywhere.
> 
> **** can hit the fan quick, everybody have a different way to react. We don't behave all the same... Protect your ass first. Make sure to explain people what they will get, what they won't what's their option. Cover your ass! Also, keep photographying and practicing, that's the most important thing. Even if you don't charge a lot, people are still paying so they will expect the best of you, they are the clients, right, don't forget that. They are paying you, you are not by any means doing them a favor, even if you charge low price...


Thank You! This all makes sense. The cropping of her  hand is a newbie  mistake. Second shot is their request. I did not think it was a good idea and still don't like the photo. They did. After getting some amazing advice and this experience I will not be asking for a fee. I will still have a contract for if I do any photo sessions from now on. This experience has me wanting to pull my hair out. Also I still need to find my editing style. Almost every other session I have done ends up with a totally different look. My most recent one is my absolute favorite. This is my most recent. These people love their photos as has everyone else (about ten paid sessions). This is the first time this happened to me. Very discouraging but I see your point. I will not give up and just do my best to please these people.


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## cauzimme

That's the thing too, 
Every most recent shoot will be your new favorite, because you are still learning and experimenting. I thought I was good at 17yrs old, now even if it's not bad, i'm wondering what I was thinking... lol.


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## The_Traveler

*HONEST RESPONSE BELOW so don't read if your feeling get hurt.*











Esperanza86 said:


> *These people love their photos as has everyone else (about ten paid sessions). This is the first time this happened to me. Very discouraging but I see your point. I will not give up and just do my best to please these people.*



That's because the average person don't really know anything.
And more knowledgable people will look at your portfolio and see the mediocre edits and not be your client.

IMO, every one of these pictures shown above has defects that should be corrected.

At this size, it's hard to see well but none of these look sharp.
#1, besides being OOF, has blanched spots on cheeks and forehead. There is huge ugly vignette when the photo should have been cropped and only slightly vignetted.
#2  The people are on one side, his face is hidden. Lots of empty space with no artistic reason.
#3  _ditto_ 

You wouldn't buy a piano and then in 2-3 months expect to be able to play at someone's wedding.
Photography is the same way; it takes knowledge, practice, skills and talent.
A smart camera does a lot but you are sabotaging the camera.


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## Esperanza86

The_Traveler said:


> *HONEST RESPONSE BELOW so don't read if your feeling get hurt.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My feelings are far from being hurt by you. I take the critisicm and roll with it. I am pretty new at photography and have read a handful of books about it. Like I said, I am still learning as you know there is a lot to learn. I appreciate you looking at my photos and giving your advice and opinions.
> As far as my shooting style- I was using the rule of thirds for the last one. He was whispering something to his girlfriend and I caught a real moment of them being together. The second one with no artistic reason was when we were all joking and they were laughing together. I love real connections and moments. This is not all of the "poses". There are more where they are both showing their faces. As far as my editing, I know I need help. I am not charging fees anymore at this point and just going to shoot for experience. Until I feel confident and can get my camera down. Thank You again everyone! We all start somewhere and I am in the first steps. I do have a question about your reason for little vignette. What is your reason? I am wanting to know. I love the look of a larger vignette but would love to know why you don't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Esperanza86 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *These people love their photos as has everyone else (about ten paid sessions). This is the first time this happened to me. Very discouraging but I see your point. I will not give up and just do my best to please these people.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's because the average person don't really know anything.
> And more knowledgable people will look at your portfolio and see the mediocre edits and not be your client.
> 
> IMO, every one of these pictures shown above has defects that should be corrected.
> 
> At this size, it's hard to see well but none of these look sharp.
> #1, besides being OOF, has blanched spots on cheeks and forehead. There is huge ugly vignette when the photo should have been cropped and only slightly vignetted.
> #2  The people are on one side, his face is hidden. Lots of empty space with no artistic reason.
> #3  _ditto_
> 
> You wouldn't buy a piano and then in 2-3 months expect to be able to play at someone's wedding.
> Photography is the same way; it takes knowledge, practice, skills and talent.
> A smart camera does a lot but you are sabotaging the camera.
Click to expand...


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## Derrel

I gotta hand it to you Esperanza86, you seem to have thick skin and you can handle criticism without resorting to insulting replies, so you've got a good attitude. Your replies and responses in this thread show a pretty good character and some mental toughness. You seem to acknowledge that there is still plenty to learn, and that you have a ways to go, and all of the aforementioned qualities reflect positively on you. You demonstrate qualities that are often lacking in today's world.


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## Esperanza86

Derrel said:


> I gotta hand it to you Esperanza86, you seem to have thick skin and you can handle criticism without resorting to insulting replies, so you've got a good attitude. Your replies and responses in this thread show a pretty good character and some mental toughness. You seem to acknowledge that there is still plenty to learn, and that you have a ways to go, and all of the aforementioned qualities reflect positively on you. You demonstrate qualities that are often lacking in today's world.


Thank You very much! I didn't come here thinking I was the best. I came here knowing I will never be. No one will. I know there is always someone better than I and everyone here. I know at one time everyone here was lost and didn't know much about photography. It is a journey, and a lifelong learning experience. As far as my upset clients, I am refunding them for the session. I am excited about learning and improving without having money involved now. I know when to take something as an opinions and as an educated response. The information here is amazing. There are so many resources here from every person. It is wonderful. I take the negative energy and make it positive. You can always view something negatively, and you can always view something positively. How you view things in life say a lot about you. It will show in your work and people see that.


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## Esperanza86

Btw Derrel- I have noticed your responses as well - the same can be said about you! You have a way with words to inform without belittling. Shows that you are confident in your knowledge and have compassion. I would love to see your work! Do you have a fan page or website?


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## Derrel

Thanks. I recently let my long-time pBase site lapse...I'll be moving my stuff elsewhere within a few months.


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## Esperanza86

astroNikon said:


> ^^ what they said
> 
> I couldn't get past the your "computer is broken" and yet you are posting images on a website.  And the first photo has too shallow a Depth of Field (Aperture) and wrong focusing point so the people's faces  are out of focus.
> 
> and the "no" contract thing ... that's the reason people use contracts.
> 
> As mentioned, you either make the customer happy as much as you can or stand pat.  That's about the only 2 options you have ... after you fix your computer of course.
> 
> btw, your "softness of skin" (in another thread) is actually out of focus skin.


I have an Iphone that has photoshop adobe app and photoshop express. My photos from my computer and phone sync with eachother. These are apps so they are much more limited in options for editing. That is the explanation for that confusion. I am learning and I know my fstop was low. I shot at 1.8 but I am having problems focusing. I need to learn how to do that. I did not have a contract because I am very new and now know why that is very important. Thank you for your tips! About my customers- I am refunding them.


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## Esperanza86

tirediron said:


> I'm going to be a little more direct:  Refund the clients their money, apologize, and give them whatever usable files you may have.   Normally I would suggest you offer a re-shoot, but in this case I'm not sure there is any point.  You need to take a pause from the business and learn more about photography and a LOT more about business.  WHY are they only getting files that will print to 4x6?  I could print decent 8x10s from my very first 2.something Mp digital body....  WHY are you allowing the customer to print the files?  That's a HUGE amount of money you're leaving on the table...
> 
> I too would be VERY unhappy with a product like this.


In another message she said she could print 8x10. I am refunding them because it is the right thing to do. I have printed photos for other people I have taken photos of through mpix.com and they looked good to me- an average eye (keep in mind I am still learning a lot about technical things). I print my own photos through mpix from the same camera. I am not really sure what is going on there? As far as "business" I am not doing that anymore. I am halting fees and working on learning and practice. I just need to learn, keep reading, and practice. Thank You for taking time to help!


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## astroNikon

Esperanza86 said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to be a little more direct:  Refund the clients their money, apologize, and give them whatever usable files you may have.   Normally I would suggest you offer a re-shoot, but in this case I'm not sure there is any point.  You need to take a pause from the business and learn more about photography and a LOT more about business.  WHY are they only getting files that will print to 4x6?  I could print decent 8x10s from my very first 2.something Mp digital body....  WHY are you allowing the customer to print the files?  That's a HUGE amount of money you're leaving on the table...
> 
> I too would be VERY unhappy with a product like this.
> 
> 
> 
> In another message she said she could print 8x10. I am refunding them because it is the right thing to do. I have printed photos for other people I have taken photos of through mpix.com and they looked good to me- an average eye (keep in mind I am still learning a lot about technical things). I print my own photos through mpix from the same camera. I am not really sure what is going on there? As far as "business" I am not doing that anymore. I am halting fees and working on learning and practice. I just need to learn, keep reading, and practice. Thank You for taking time to help!
Click to expand...


I was helping another photographer who was trying to print 8x10s at Walmart but was unable too.  The website didn't allow it.  
Essentially, in this problem, The crop of the photo would not allow it to be resized to print at 8x10 and include all the people.  It was longer than it was tall for that size.  It was printed at 16x10 though which is more panoramic.

So maybe the website only allows certain sizes based on the original size.
I showed the photographer in Lightroom the various size "boxes" at 3x5, 8x10 16x10 and I think a few others for them to understand the shape of the photo just can't be made into any size without distorting the photo or unwanted crops.


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## Esperanza86

astroNikon said:


> Esperanza86 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to be a little more direct:  Refund the clients their money, apologize, and give them whatever usable files you may have.   Normally I would suggest you offer a re-shoot, but in this case I'm not sure there is any point.  You need to take a pause from the business and learn more about photography and a LOT more about business.  WHY are they only getting files that will print to 4x6?  I could print decent 8x10s from my very first 2.something Mp digital body....  WHY are you allowing the customer to print the files?  That's a HUGE amount of money you're leaving on the table...
> 
> I too would be VERY unhappy with a product like this.
> 
> 
> 
> In another message she said she could print 8x10. I am refunding them because it is the right thing to do. I have printed photos for other people I have taken photos of through mpix.com and they looked good to me- an average eye (keep in mind I am still learning a lot about technical things). I print my own photos through mpix from the same camera. I am not really sure what is going on there? As far as "business" I am not doing that anymore. I am halting fees and working on learning and practice. I just need to learn, keep reading, and practice. Thank You for taking time to help!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was helping another photographer who was trying to print 8x10s at Walmart but was unable too.  The website didn't allow it.
> Essentially, in this problem, The crop of the photo would not allow it to be resized to print at 8x10 and include all the people.  It was longer than it was tall for that size.  It was printed at 16x10 though which is more panoramic.
> 
> So maybe the website only allows certain sizes based on the original size.
> I showed the photographer in Lightroom the various size "boxes" at 3x5, 8x10 16x10 and I think a few others for them to understand the shape of the photo just can't be made into any size without distorting the photo or unwanted crops.
Click to expand...

Whoa! That makes sense. I wonder if that is what is wrong concerning ability to print. Either way she will be refunded. I just want her to be happy. Sadly, At this point I am not able to help.


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## Esperanza86

As far as my focusing, just an honest piece of information. I know how to focus with my shutter. I am thinking I am either not understanding my focus settings in my camera or I am getting too hurried and excited that I am not paying attention to my focal point. It shows where it is focusing on my camera as a little red box but I think at points I get so caught up in everything else I lose "focus". It is a lot of multitasking. I am going to another thread to find help and tips on that now lol.


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## astroNikon

Esperanza86 said:


> As far as my focusing, just an honest piece of information. I know how to focus with my shutter. I am thinking I am either not understanding my focus settings in my camera or I am getting too hurried and excited that I am not paying attention to my focal point. It shows where it is focusing on my camera as a little red box but I think at points I get so caught up in everything else I lose "focus". It is a lot of multitasking. I am going to another thread to find help and tips on that now lol.


That little red dot doesn't tell you if it is in (at least with my camera)
Single Focus Point
Dynamic 9
Dynamic 11, etc  as the camera is going to select the most contrasty area starting at that red dot/box.

If you have it in Single Focus Point then you know exactly where it is focusing.
For Nikon that would he AFS-S focus mode  (or AFC-S for continuous refocusing, single focus point).


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## Esperanza86

Oh my goodness I needed this. Thank You so so much! Correct me if I am wrong but continuous is for moving subjects? Like my two year old son? When you are working with adults who move less is it better to switch out of continuous?   I hope this can help me a bit in focusing. Can you tell me where to post threads about metering /camera topics? I am new here and already had a message about being in the correct forum.


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## astroNikon

Esperanza86 said:


> Oh my goodness I needed this. Thank You so so much! Correct me if I am wrong but continuous is for moving subjects? Like my two year old son? When you are working with adults who move less is it better to switch out of continuous?   I hope this can help me a bit in focusing. Can you tell me where to post threads about metering /camera topics? I am new here and already had a message about being in the correct forum.


I'm not a pro, but
I use AFC (Auto Focus Continuous Servo mode) for moving subjects - sports, outside kids, etc.

AFS Auto Focus Single (single Servo mode)  for portraiture etc.  And I have Shutter above 1/125

Then the AF Area Mode can be, as an example
(1) Single Point AF - great for if you want to focus on one particular spot such as the eye
(2) Dynamic Area AF - 9 pt, 21 pt, 39 pt, 51 pt as examples, when you let the camera select the best spot.  Good for moving subject
(3) 3D-tracking, good for subjects moving across the view
(4) Auto Area AF - you let the camera decide what to do.

So you could have AFS-Dynamic 51 but I think it only shows the middle red dot when you look through the viewfinder.

In the viewfinder or LCD panel it should be specific which exact mode you are in.

What kind of camera do you have ?
Your manual should go over this in great detail.


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## tirediron

Esperanza86 said:


> As far as my focusing, just an honest piece of information. I know how to focus with my shutter. I am thinking I am either not understanding my focus settings in my camera or *I am getting too hurried and excited that I am not paying attention to my focal point*. It shows where it is focusing on my camera as a little red box but I think at points *I get so caught up in everything else I lose "focus".* It is a lot of multitasking. I am going to another thread to find help and tips on that now lol.


 The bolded points above are key.  No matter how much photographic knowledge you have your fingertips when you're sitting at home on your couch, it's of no use if it all disapears when you are under pressure. What you need to work on is slowing down and making sure you're getting it right.  Challenge yourself by using friends and family as guinea pigs and creating stressful circumstances.  Give yourself two minutes (literally) to get a good headshot; five minutes to pose & shoot a family of five....  that sort of thing.


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## Esperanza86

I have read my manual but it has been a while. I want to read it again. Sometimes other people explain things better though. I have a Nikon D5300 with a Nikkor 1.8 prime. I intended using these for my son and family. Then I had people ask me to take their photos after I started. I did and loved it but obviously need to practice and learn more. I appreciate everything! Everything you are saying makes sense and matches up with my camera's settings.


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## Esperanza86

tirediron said:


> Esperanza86 said:
> 
> 
> 
> As far as my focusing, just an honest piece of information. I know how to focus with my shutter. I am thinking I am either not understanding my focus settings in my camera or *I am getting too hurried and excited that I am not paying attention to my focal point*. It shows where it is focusing on my camera as a little red box but I think at points *I get so caught up in everything else I lose "focus".* It is a lot of multitasking. I am going to another thread to find help and tips on that now lol.
> 
> 
> 
> The bolded points above are key.  No matter how much photographic knowledge you have your fingertips when you're sitting at home on your couch, it's of no use if it all disapears when you are under pressure. What you need to work on is slowing down and making sure you're getting it right.  Challenge yourself by using friends and family as guinea pigs and creating stressful circumstances.  Give yourself two minutes (literally) to get a good headshot; five minutes to pose & shoot a family of five....  that sort of thing.
Click to expand...

Thank You! I have a perfect subject- my two year old boy


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## Esperanza86

Off topic but what is that avatar photo in the little box? I did not upload this or choose it. I uploaded a photo of me. Do other people choose your public photo?


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## SCraig

Esperanza86 said:


> Oh my goodness I needed this. Thank You so so much! Correct me if I am wrong but continuous is for moving subjects? Like my two year old son? When you are working with adults who move less is it better to switch out of continuous?   I hope this can help me a bit in focusing. Can you tell me where to post threads about metering /camera topics? I am new here and already had a message about being in the correct forum.


Continuous autofocus is for things that move, in that you are correct.  Keep in mind that virtually everything except rocks and concrete moves a little though.  If your depth of field is already razor thin then it is very, VERY easy for single-point autofocus to pick the wrong point, for a subject to lean one way or the other, or for YOU to lean one way or the other and get things out of focus.  Once single-point AF locks, it does NOT change unless you take the shot or let up on the shutter release.

I very seldom use single-point AF since I can never guarantee that something (myself included) won't move slightly.


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## vintagesnaps

It sounds like you need to learn how to use your camera better first, it should become so that you don't have to think too much about what to do - because you should know what to do. Your questions sound like beginner level, not pro level, yet. You may get there, takes a lot of learning and practice.

It did occur to me that they spent time on having the photos taken and now they won't even get the pictures; I don't know if they'll be too happy about that. Seems like they've been pretty nice about this.

It seems like a good decision to do a lot more learning before going any further with a photography business. If you don't think you can become one of the best in your area someday and be competitive this may not be a good choice as a business.


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## astroNikon

Esperanza86 said:


> I have read my manual but it has been a while. I want to read it again. Sometimes other people explain things better though. I have a Nikon D5300 with a Nikkor 1.8 prime. I intended using these for my son and family. Then I had people ask me to take their photos after I started. I did and loved it but obviously need to practice and learn more. I appreciate everything! Everything you are saying makes sense and matches up with my camera's settings.


reread the manual (a section at a time is best) and practice what you are reading.
Then practice more on inanimate objects
then reread it again as you'll understand it better as you learn more.


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## Scatterbrained

YouTube. Is your friend.  

B&H channel
Adorama channel
Sue Bryce
Karl Taylor
Bowens channel
Framed show
Learn My Shot
Phlearn
Westcott Channel
Joe McNally
There's a lot more I'm sure, but these are a good starting point.  
Also, for under $30 you can get a one month subscription to KelbyOne.  They have videos that start at the very beginning and work you through everything from operating your camera to running a studio.


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## Emanuel M

I was in the same spot you are a few months ago.
Friends liked my photos and asked for photoshoots.
I refused them all and did some with closest friends and family for free to learn more how it is to shoot more seriously.
I bought my first DSLR 3 years ago, I did my first paid photoshoot 2 months ago 

First get to know the camera (I also use the D5300).
Learn to focus, learn to expose, learn to compose.
Learn about shutter speed, aperture, ISO, DOF, etc.
There are so many things to learn - It's really a complicated "world".

I've studied Photoshop at University but it wasn't enough - had to study again to learn some more things (love Phlearn tutorials).
After that I begun to study Lightroom, and it's an amazing post production tool also.
I use both now and I am still learning 

Did 3 photoshoots so far, I have no contracts yet, not even a defined price, but I am getting there...
Customers were pleased with their photos, but sometimes things can go wrong.
I decided that I would do "packages":

For example:
10 printed 4x6 (10x15 cm) - 40$ (At switzerland we use CHF, not dollars, but it's almost the same so I will say $)
20 4x6 - 60$
30 4x6 - 80$

A 8x11 (21x29.7 A4) is 20$ each until 5 prints - after that it's 10$ (5 "8x11" are 100$ - 10 are 100$ + (5x10) = 150$).
I charge also 2$ for each full res photo, edited and converted to JPEG.

My "best sell package" (only did 3 photoshoots ) is:
10 printed "4x6" + 1 printed "8x11" + 20 full res photo on a flash drive - (50 cents for kilometer if I take my car and 25$ for the service).

So - 40$ + 20$ + 40$ + 25$ - 125$
With no time and photo limit.
After that I show the clients all the photos, they pick their favorites, I print and send them...
I ask them if I can use some photos to my portfolio.
But I have to work on some contracts.

The 25$ for the service are paid in advance, so even if I have to refund the client, that money is mine.
But, as I've said, I'm no pro.
I am at the very begining and have so much to learn.

Here are some photos

Mother Daughter session 1













Mother Daughter session 2













Godmother and goddaughter session (this one wasn't paid, but since I can't post from the other paid photoshoot, i'll show these)













Sorry for the long post, but I felt in need to share my experience with you, because I'm also new to this "world" (not to photography itself, but to be paid to do it ).
And sorry for my English - I'm a portuguese dude living in the french side of switzerland 

Cheers


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