# setting up a dark room



## nomav6 (Oct 27, 2004)

I've been working some OT at work, so I think Im going to have some extra money to start setting up a darkroom at my house, can someone list the things that Im going to need? this is only going to be the most basic darkroom and I do have a pretty limited budget


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## nomav6 (Oct 27, 2004)

I forgot to add that Im mostly worried about developing right now, will start doing prints later once I can afford an enlarger.


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## ksmattfish (Oct 27, 2004)

For developing film:

2+ 1 gallon jugs
developing tank with reels
thermometer
measuring cups or graduated cylinders
scissors
bottle cap opener (for 35mm film)
developer
stop bath 
fixer
hypo-clear or wash aid 
photo flo or dish washing detergent
a string and clothes pins to hang the film to dry
neg sheets for storage

I think that's everything.  I probably forget something...

Edit:  Some sort of timer


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## Artemis (Oct 27, 2004)

I actually managed to get 90% if that in working order of ebay for about £60...including enlarger!


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## oriecat (Oct 27, 2004)

You use stop bath for film?!  :roll:

sorry still holding a grudge...


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## ksmattfish (Oct 27, 2004)

oriecat said:
			
		

> You use stop bath for film?!  :roll:



Keeps the fixer fresh!  I use a much weaker mix than usually recommended.  Mostly water with just a splash of stop.


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## Saeid (Nov 18, 2004)

I would also suggest easy access to a sink (water and drain), since u need to wash ur film and paper!

Oh and umm... safety light...!!!

And a good spot to hang ur prints to dry (negatives), if ur not using a dry roller... which i dont recommend... since it can burn mat paper! Well that happened to me... but hey!


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## ksmattfish (Nov 18, 2004)

Saeid said:
			
		

> I would also suggest easy access to a sink (water and drain), since u need to wash ur film and paper!
> 
> Oh and umm... safety light...!!!
> 
> And a good spot to hang ur prints to dry (negatives), if ur not using a dry roller... which i dont recommend... since it can burn mat paper! Well that happened to me... but hey!



Oh yeah, you definately need a safe light.  I knew I forgot something.    

While easy access to a sink is nice, it's not absolutely necessary.  I didn't have a sink in my darkroom for years.  Once the film or prints are fixed, they are light safe, so I'd take them out to the kitchen to wash.  I'd hold my prints in a water bath until I was ready to wash.

I hang my film from a clothes line in my darkroom.  I use clothes pins to clip it and weight it.  I dry my prints face down on a screen I made myself.


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## terri (Nov 18, 2004)

> I dry my prints face down on a screen I made myself.



That's why I call you "the Pilgrm", honey, cause you're an awesome little DIY'er....    

Can't wait to get my darkroom going too.


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## Hertz van Rental (Nov 19, 2004)

ksmattfish said:
			
		

> oriecat said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It also stops development (hence the name) and - more importantly - kills the developer so it doesn't carry over into the fix. This can cause dichroic fog - silver being put down on the surface of your print and degrading the image.


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## Saeid (Nov 19, 2004)

I just wash my prints in water, between the developer and fixer! (also doesnt kill the fixer!)

But then again with most of the fixers on the market today, there really isnt a point to a stop bath! dont u agree?


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## ksmattfish (Nov 19, 2004)

Saeid said:
			
		

> But then again with most of the fixers on the market today, there really isnt a point to a stop bath! dont u agree?



I disagree.  I regularly test my fixer, and it exhausts much more quickly with a water bath than a stop bath.  I know that many folks don't use stop, but for me fixer is the most expensive of the chemistry I use; the stop pays for itself ten times over with fixer cost savings.  I'm not really worried about immediately stopping the development process, but if I can make my fixer last longer I can save hundreds of dollars in a year.  And then I can buy more camera gear  

EDIT:  I thought of something else.  Since i take my fixer to the local pro lab to dump it through their filter, if my fixer has less capacity that means I've got to drag it over there more often.  I go through a lot of chemistry, anywhere that I can extend the usefulness and lower the cost I'm on it.


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## Hertz van Rental (Nov 19, 2004)

If you know about the chemistry of photography then you will understand why it is better to use stop bath than not. Stop is usually just acetic acid - common vinegar to you and me. And white vinegar works just fine.
At the end of the day, though, it's personal choice. If someone doesn't want to use stop then I won't force them or even argue about it. I have more important things to do ;-)


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## oriecat (Nov 19, 2004)

Stop bath is so cheap, I don't see why not to use it.    My comment above was a joke, referring back to when someone said that to me, in quite a rude way...


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## havoc (Nov 19, 2004)

Sure Orie LOL


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## oriecat (Nov 19, 2004)

It's true!


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## motcon (Nov 19, 2004)

oh, i don't know....informed decisions are always the best. credits for this information are given below.



> 1. the pH change from developer to stop can generate molecular heat and cause grains in the film to clump.
> 
> 
> 2. Acid stop baths cause pinholes and reticulation with developers
> ...





> &#8216;1. pH variations occur when a film is moved from an alkaline developer into an acid stop bath. This can generate enough molecular heat to cause the grains of the film to clump together.
> 
> Haist wrote, 'The use of carbonates in developers may produce blisters in the emulsion layer of the photographic material when this matieral is transferred from the alkaline developer to any [!] acid afterbath, such as an acid stop bath or acid fixing bath. The carbonate still retained in the emulsion layer after development reacts with the acid of the afterbaths to produce carbon dioxide gas bubbles, which may then rupture the gelatin of the emulsion layer.'






> &#8216;> stopbaths cause "pinholes"? [or reticulation or other gross image irregularities?]
> 
> They can, but this can be avoided, and the power of the stop bath to stop development can be increased by a factor 10 (measured in time) by using a buffered stop bath as suggested in FDC, p. 104. The formula, which is not obvious because it is contained in the text, is
> 
> ...






> &#8216;We have established that the ordinary dilute acetic acid bath (a) causes unnecessary swelling and (b) does not stop development rapidly. The mechanisms for dealing with this are clearly described in Haist, and partly by me. The relevant pages in Haist are 539 to 557. However, the foundational paper is Henn & Crabtree, PSA J., 17B:14 (1951), which must be read in its entirety to gain a complete understanding of the mechanism of the stop bath.&#8217;






> &#8216;That is true, and a commonplace. I had an extensive, beautifully researched chapter on stop baths, the first I wrote, and the best loved, that I had to throw out - there wasn't room. I advocated buffered stop baths with additional sulfate to tame swelling. If you look at your Haist carefully, you will see the research which indicates that any ordinarily constituted stop bath does not, in fact, stop development rapidly. Only a buffered stop bath will stop development rapidly.&#8217;






> 'the forces there are so great that of course there is an effect on the silver image. It may be subtle. It may not be so subtle. But it's there. There may be severe reticulation. There may only be very moderate reticulation, not visible as such, which causes a moderate, not fatal, but visible, and measurable, loss of image quality. Now, you can avoid that completely by avoiding the unnecessary use of acid solutions in black and white processing. So why not do it?'






> OK. Let&#8217;s turn to Ilford's LFA Mason, 1975, p. 207 discussing what occurs when alkaline film is placed in dilute acid baths: 'some movement of the image silver may accompany the mechanical relief pattern. The fine particles of image silver tend to migrate to the edges of the relief pattern ... When this happens, graininess is very much worse than would normally be expected.





> &#8216;One of the disadvantages of the carbonated alkalis is their tendency to cause blisters within the gelatin layer as a result of the release of carbon dioxide gas when the alkaline developer is neutralized by the acid fixing bath.' It is because of this practical necessity that Russell invented Kodalk.



credits: Bill Troop, Steve Anchell, Grant Haist - photographic chemists.

also keep in mind that stop bath mixed with certain other standard darkroom chemicals and other agents such as bleach can release cyanide gas.


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## telex95 (Nov 20, 2004)

Saeid said:
			
		

> I would also suggest easy access to a sink (water and drain), since u need to wash ur film and paper!
> 
> Oh and umm... safety light...!!!
> 
> And a good spot to hang ur prints to dry (negatives), if ur not using a dry roller... which i dont recommend... since it can burn mat paper! Well that happened to me... but hey!



Since, the film will be loaded into a light sealed tank, do we really need safelight?


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## oriecat (Nov 20, 2004)

The safelight is for printing, not developing.


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## Hertz van Rental (Nov 21, 2004)

You can get safelights for developing black and white film. They are very dark green. Ansel Adams said he used to use one for developing 'by inspection'. But then he was a bit of a poseur.
I've tried using one and you can see b*gger all - eating carrots works better - so I wouldn't bother.


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