# Drugs and Creativity



## abraxas (Mar 1, 2008)

Do drugs help us enhance or inhibit creativity and our expression of such?

-


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## lifeafter2am (Mar 1, 2008)

It has been proven in psychological studies that, at least, marijuana stimulates parts of the brain that show creative potential.  Only during the actual high effect though, and it disappears when the high is gone.

The problem is you cannot just say "drugs", and you have to be specific to classes of drugs.  Such as depressants, hallucinogens, entheogens, stimulants, etc.


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## shorty6049 (Mar 1, 2008)

never really TRIED being creative while on "drugs" but i'd probably agree... you can think of some really cool things while you're high


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## eravedesigns (Mar 1, 2008)

I don't do drugs but I do believe music can fuel creativity. When I work on graphics and I listen to some heavy drum & bass music I can make some of my best work.


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## lifeafter2am (Mar 1, 2008)

Heavy drum and bass?  Like Phetsta and Pendulum?


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## nealjpage (Mar 1, 2008)

I'll have to ask my uncle if he got creative when he was one of Leary's paid test subjects at Harvard in the '50s.


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## craig (Mar 1, 2008)

When I was in college I swore up and down weed helped my creativity. As I look back I feel it inhibited it. Certainly killed my motivation. These days I need a clear head to be creative. 

For me weed and beer is more for the mental relaxation. Tripping is a whole other story. Kind of gave up on that as well.

Love & Bass


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## eravedesigns (Mar 1, 2008)

lifeafter2am said:


> Heavy drum and bass?  Like Phetsta and Pendulum?




yea and like london elektricity, logistics, my favorite right now is the prodigy people- voodoo people (pendulum remix)


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## lifeafter2am (Mar 1, 2008)

OMG!!!  I love that song!!  

I listen to mostly intelligent Drum and Base though, not much of the harder stuff.  Mostly stuff off of the Hospital Label.


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## Socrates (Mar 1, 2008)

abraxas said:


> Do drugs help us enhance or inhibit creativity and our expression of such?



Does the name "Edgar Allan Poe" mean anything to you?


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## Miaow (Mar 1, 2008)

I think something like smoking dope etc could change how you perceive a subject/situation so may be creative in a way that you might have discounted taking a pic of the subject/situation if you'd been straight.  

I think though getting how you've perceived it across to everyone else who's veiwing it (who are most likely all straight) may be more difficult.


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## craig (Mar 1, 2008)

Yes Drum & Bass is always, always good. Heavy stuff like (old) Noisia, Teebee, Caylk and Dieselboy gets my creative juices flowing. Hospital Records stuff I find more suitable to serious post production. 

Interesting side note: Pendulum (live set) will be at Coachella Music Fest here in California April, 25. HOLLA!!!!!!!

Love & Bass


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## Arch (Mar 1, 2008)

yea you could say iv done my fair share in the past. I kinda agree with Craig to an extent... when i was in art collage i firmly believed weed helped me 'tap in' to a level of consciousness that inspired my work and that i couldn't do it as well without it. I dont regret that tho... i do think at the time it did somewhat inspire me, but then so did being at college, the people, the lifestyle... its hard to pin down what had more of an effect on me.
Tripping can in a way open doors... but only to some in my experience, its not for eveyone. You know you've gone too far when you start including fairies in your work ...

Remember, being 'off your face' and being in an artistic world has often gone hand in hand in the past.. and i have to say there have been many many inspired pieces of work to come from being under the influence, from Picasso (who was partial to the hallucinogenic drink absinth) to famous actors performances incuding Dennis Hopper and Martin Sheen in the film Apocalypse Now.

It is also true however that Picasso later died drunk... Martin Sheen put his hand through a mirror and suffered a near-fatal heart attack and Dennis Hopper was well... speeding... alot.


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## shorty6049 (Mar 1, 2008)

craig said:


> Yes Drum & Bass is always, always good. Heavy stuff like (old) Noisia, Teebee, Caylk and Dieselboy gets my creative juices flowing. Hospital Records stuff I find more suitable to serious post production.
> 
> Interesting side note: Pendulum (live set) will be at Coachella Music Fest here in California April, 25. HOLLA!!!!!!!
> 
> Love & Bass


 




umm... wrong topic guys:er:


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## lifeafter2am (Mar 1, 2008)

Arch said:


> yea you could say iv done my fair share in the past. I kinda agree with Craig to an extent... when i was in art collage i firmly believed weed helped me 'tap in' to a level of consciousness that inspired my work and that i couldn't do it as well without it. I dont regret that tho... i do think at the time it did somewhat inspire me, but then so did being at college, the people, the lifestyle... its hard to pin down what had more of an effect on me.
> *Tripping can in a way open doors... but only to some in my experience, its not for eveyone. You know you've gone too far when you start including fairies in your work ...*



The greek in my signature means "psychonaut", literally a sailor of the mind or the soul.  My main research consists of the benefits of altered states of consciousness, not only drugs, but includes them.  I 100% agree that it is not for everyone!!  But I do firmly believe that if more people were in tune with who they were on the inside (whether through drugs or meditation or any altered state where you cannot hide from yourself), the world would be a MUCH better place.


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## lifeafter2am (Mar 1, 2008)

craig said:


> Yes Drum & Bass is always, always good. Heavy stuff like (old) Noisia, Teebee, Caylk and Dieselboy gets my creative juices flowing. Hospital Records stuff I find more suitable to serious post production.
> 
> Interesting side note: Pendulum (live set) will be at Coachella Music Fest here in California April, 25. HOLLA!!!!!!!
> 
> Love & Bass



You get Pendulum and Portishead.... I hate you!  :er:


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## Aquarium Dreams (Mar 1, 2008)

Depends on the drug and the person.  I know a number of people who do plenty of drugs, and their work is always lazy and poorly done.  Then there are those who do drugs, and their work is awesome.  People who are skilled/talented are going to be so whether or not they're on drugs, while people who don't care about their art are going to suck no matter what.  Being high just pushes a person further in whatever direction they were going anyway.


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## rob91 (Mar 1, 2008)

Bill Maher has a great bit where he justified why pot should be legal because of the great art it inspired. What he said, to paraphrase: "Abbey road is worth 10 dead kids...Dark Side of the Moon is worth 100."

Heres the youtube: 




What a genius.


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## pm63 (Mar 1, 2008)

Personally, I respect brilliant and creative work more if it wasn't done under the influence of drugs. I don't ever intend to take drugs, I believe that being naturally inspired and producing great work this way is the way forward.


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## rob91 (Mar 1, 2008)

pm63 said:


> Personally, I respect brilliant and creative work more if it wasn't done under the influence of drugs. I don't ever intend to take drugs, I believe that being naturally inspired and producing great work this way is the way forward.



Why on earth would that alter your perception of the work?


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## lifeafter2am (Mar 1, 2008)

And how on earth would you know anyway?

Sorry, but I find that to be an ignorant viewpoint.  Although, must be nice sitting up there on your perch above everyone else.


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## kundalini (Mar 1, 2008)

My writings and poetry were certainly more vivid and (potentially) creative when I was young and hitting the bong.  Trouble is I have an addictive nature.  Trying and achieving all those other levels for all those years only crushed that potential.  Nowadays, having lived that life has given me the basis to be creative.  I'll  still take a toke, if you're offering, but that'll be the limit.


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## Mike_E (Mar 1, 2008)

There are exceptions but practically everyone who tries to be creative on drugs produces really creative garbage.  (including me -back when)

They don't call it being 'messed up' for nothing.


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## domromer (Mar 1, 2008)

I don't know if it makes me more creative  but whatever I'm doing becomes more enjoyable. We used to get pretty drunk most days when we worked in the darkroom. It was fun. Sometimes I'll have a few drinks before i go do a studio session with someone modeling for me. It makes me less inhibited so it's easier for me to deal with getting people to pose for me. 

Weed never agreed with me, makes me hungry and paranoid. Not real good for creativity.


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## rob91 (Mar 1, 2008)

Mike_E said:


> There are exceptions but practically everyone who tries to be creative on drugs produces really creative garbage.  (including me -back when)
> 
> They don't call it being 'messed up' for nothing.



Especially The Beatles.


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## kundalini (Mar 1, 2008)

rob91 said:


> Especially The Beatles.


James Marshall Hendrix is another example.


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## Rolland (Mar 1, 2008)

I've begun to look at creativity as a drug...when your are in the mode, flow  IE..... got your mojo goin'...and really creating .....time seems to be altered, hunger & pain cease to exist....the world goes away, and the only thing that truly matters is whatever I'm creating..... I don't like anyone intruding into my Little world of creativity, when I'm there....I also can't wait to get back there again when I'm away from it.......just can't stop....

anyone else experience this?


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## c_lawrence (Mar 1, 2008)

> Personally, I respect brilliant and creative work more if it wasn't done under the influence of drugs. I don't ever intend to take drugs, I believe that being naturally inspired and producing great work this way is the way forward.


 


> Originally Posted by *Mike_E*
> 
> 
> _There are exceptions but practically everyone who tries to be creative on drugs produces really creative garbage. (including me -back when)
> ...




Hmmmmmm... let's see.......

*Isaac Abrams*, artist - LSD
*Lewis Daniel Armstrong*, musician - Marijuana
*Marcus Aurelius*, philosopher, Emperor of Rome - Opium
*The Beatles*, musicians - LSD, Marijuana
*John Belushi*, comedian, actor - Marijuana, Cocaine, Heroin
*Elizabeth Barrett Browning*, poet - Opium
*Lewis Carrol*, mathematician, photographer, author: "Alice in Wonderland" - Mushrooms
*Jean Cocteau*, playwrite: "Orpheus" - Opium
*Salivor Dali*, painter - Hashish
*Charles Dickens*, author - Opium
*Thomas Alva Edison*, inventor, industrialist - Cocaine
*Ben Franklin*, inventor, publisher, scientist - Opium, Marijuana
*Sigmund Freud*, physician - Cocaine
*Jerry Garcia*, musician - LSD, Marijuana, Heroin
*Jimi Hendrix*, musician - LSD, Heroin
*Billie Holliday*, singer - Opium
*John Keats*, poet - Opium
*Jack Nicholson*, actor - LSD, Marijuana
*Pablo Picasso, *painter - Opium
*Edgar Allen Poe*, poet - Opium
*Jules Verne*, author - Cocaine
... and the list goes on... (JoSon.com)




> People who are skilled/talented are going to be so whether or not they're on drugs, while people who don't care about their art are going to suck no matter what. Being high just pushes a person further in whatever direction they were going anyway.


 
...my sentiments exactly!


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## jedithebomber (Mar 2, 2008)

Sober when shooting, stoned in post...

my .02


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## leila (Mar 2, 2008)

if you get too messed up, you can't function... so do it just right


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## Mike_E (Mar 2, 2008)

C_Lawrence, I think you missed the point.  Sure there have been people who could do it, But that is no reason for everyone to think that they are one of the few to be able to function and produce Great work while stoned.

Out of all the people you named, how many were actually 'blitzed' while producing their master work?  Could it have been that they were merely following a 'stoned' thought from their experiences to its conclusion while 'straight'?

Recreational introspection is far different than trying to work while impaired.

There is a caveat though, If your work is in the emotive arts- read that music and the like where the motor skills needed are practiced to the point where they are automatic- the influence of drugs in moderation is not much of a hindrance.

But, for the most part in photography, sloppy minds make sloppy photos. (see Ansel Adams for the fuzzy quote)

m


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## Double H (Mar 2, 2008)

I am able to zone out for long periods and sink myself into my work via a specific substance, whether it's design, photography, or something creative. Did it make me more"creative?" Perhaps, but I'm already oozing with talent, so it's hard to say. 

When I was in art school, living at home, I spent 99% of my time in my room working on projects. My mom could always tell what stage of a project I was on by the music I played. In the early, developmental stages of a project, ie; thumbnails, reference research, beginning an illustration, etc, I would play very mellow music, lots of new age stuff. I am really into David Sylvian. During the later stages of a project, when I was nearing finish, I played more upbeat music like techno, house, anything electronic with a good beat.


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## Alex_B (Mar 2, 2008)

Most people think they are creating great art while on drugs, but later, when sober again, they consider it rubbish


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## Socrates (Mar 2, 2008)

Alex_B said:


> Most people think they are creating great art while on drugs, but later, when sober again, they consider it rubbish



Quoth the raven, "Nevermore."


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## c_lawrence (Mar 2, 2008)

> C_Lawrence, I think you missed the point. Sure there have been people who could do it, But that is no reason for everyone to think that they are one of the few to be able to function and produce Great work while stoned.
> 
> Out of all the people you named, how many were actually 'blitzed' while producing their master work? Could it have been that they were merely following a 'stoned' thought from their experiences to its conclusion while 'straight'?
> 
> ...


 
First, I didn't miss the point at all... I never implied that "everyone to think that they are one of the few to be able to function and produce Great work while stoned."  I also never implied these people were "'blitzed' while producing their master work".  The original question was "Do drugs help us enhance or inhibit creativity and our expression of such?" ... the question was not "are people more creative while 'blitzed' on drugs".

Let me re-quote "my sentiments exactly":
People who are skilled/talented are going to be so whether or not they're on drugs, while people who don't care about their art are going to suck no matter what. Being high just pushes a person further in whatever direction they were going anyway. 

Secondly, although I do not use any drugs these days - and haven't in quite sometime due to the unfortunate consequences in the US and the fact that I like my job and my 'freedom' - I have definately used in the past.  Being an artist in other mediums, I have had the wonderful opportunity to create some really great work while under the influence (not only my own extremely critical opinion, but also those of my professors, mentors, and peers).  Additionally, much of that expanded imagination and creativity that 'oozes' during those intoxiated times for those of us with already 'creative talents' will stick as an experienced/learned creativity even after the drug effects fade away... so how many of those were 'blitzed' _during_ their masters - I'd guess many... Armstrong, Beatles, Belushi, Carrol, Dali, Hendrix, Joplin, Dali, Poe... should I continue?  However, even if they were not, their drug experiences are definately apparent in much of their work.

Any mind-altering substance will change one's perspectives and thus, has a large potential to increase creativity -- the exception... those who have zero creativity to begin with and those who have no motivation to make attempts at creativity... no mind altering substances will not assist with these types.  

Lastly... I think "fuzzy concept" is a figure of speech for "lack of imagination" -- see my quote from Mark Twain below...


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## rob91 (Mar 2, 2008)

Mike_E said:


> C_Lawrence, I think you missed the point.  Sure there have been people who could do it, But that is no reason for everyone to think that they are one of the few to be able to function and produce Great work while stoned.



Nobody here has suggested such a thing, in fact most people have been able to discuss the topic moderately while you are the one making outrageous generalizations.



> Out of all the people you named, how many were actually 'blitzed' while producing their master work?  Could it have been that they were merely following a 'stoned' thought from their experiences to its conclusion while 'straight'?


First off, that is probably unknown, and secondly that is not even the question. Abraxas asked how drugs affect the creative process, not whether the artist was "blitzed" (unnecessary hyperbole on your part) during the entire creation of the work. Drugs may not even be used during the creative process yet still have an influence. Read this passage in which William Butler Yeats describes how Hashish opened new creative avenues:http://www.veryimportantpotheads.com/site/yeats.htm

Yeats's writing is more about the drug and how it affects his thoughts on life, not necessarily implying that he is on the drug while writing. I think common sense also tells us his experience, at least among drug users, is not unique. If you want an example of someone "blitzed" while creating art, though, take Stephen King, who admits to being piss-drunk the entire time he wrote "Cujo" and barely remembers it.



> There is a caveat though, If your work is in the emotive arts- read that music and the like where the motor skills needed are practiced to the point where they are automatic- the influence of drugs in moderation is not much of a hindrance.


Sounds to me like that's the caveat that destroys your argument. I'm not sure how you're using the term "emotive arts", maybe you think it's exclusive to music? Regardless, all art - painting, sculpture, photography - requires some degree of motor skills that are practiced, thus, by your own logic, moderate drug use shouldn't be an "impairment".



> But, for the most part in photography, sloppy minds make sloppy photos. (see Ansel Adams for the fuzzy quote)


Absolutely irrelevant. You have no way of knowing how every person reacts to drugs.

For general amusement, here's a couple lists I dredged up. Not all are artists, but many are listed:

http://www.slatts.fsworld.co.uk/famous.htm
http://www.veryimportantpotheads.com/main2.html


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## eravedesigns (Mar 2, 2008)

Someone should organize a TPF drug swap soon....lol


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## D-50 (Mar 2, 2008)

It is ridiculous to think drugs enhance creativity.  I feel thats just a myth and people think they are being creative when there high but really your just as creative when your sober as you are when your high, the only difference is your lowered inhibitions when high may allow you to say or do something you might have held back when sober.

Same with the idea that a movie is funnier or better when high or looking at he stars while high is wild.. Thats a load of crap! The only drug that actually makes things like staring at the sky interesting is LSD or  for that matter any halucinagen.  But smoking some dope does nothing except make you high dont get it confused with something else


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## Arch (Mar 2, 2008)

please... lets try and not use phrases like 'It is ridiculous to think...'.... its like saying 'It is ridiculous that people should wear the colour red'... just because the colour red doesn't suit you.

I only say this because its this type of thing that gets people heated and ultimately ends in me locking the thread. =/

It is best to use the terms 'I think..' or 'imo'.


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## pm63 (Mar 2, 2008)

> Why on earth would that alter your perception of the work?



Because, as someone mentioned, it has been proven that drugs stimulate the creative sections of the brain. You could compare it to a sportsman using steroids. You wouldn't be so impressed by his achievements if you found out he was using drugs to achieve, would you? I respect people who can be naturally creative more than people who feel the need to boost their creativity using mind altering substances.



> And how on earth would you know anyway?
> 
> Sorry, but I find that to be an ignorant viewpoint. Although, must be nice sitting up there on your perch above everyone else.



Oh course, I wouldn't know unless I was told that the artwork was created under the influence of drugs. I don't think my viewpoint is ignorant, see my analogy above. I'll ignore the jibe about my "perch" because attacking an arguer is a flawed argument.

BTW, has anyone seen the adverts at the bottom of the page for this topic? 

_Advice on finding the right private Rehab centre or Detox clinic. 
Heroin Meth Subutex Opiates Free Trial Detox Offer Avail_


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## Iron Flatline (Mar 2, 2008)

Drugs is a creative stimulant for those people who want another justification for getting high. 

Being creative isn't something you do occasionally on the weekend - it's taking a certain way of seeing the world, or a desire to express something specific, and working at that for years. It takes a long time to have real consistency in the creative process, much longer than it is possible to keep the same vibe going off a certain drug.

However, drugs might help drown out certain distractions. That doesn't fuel creativity, but I guess you could say it enables it. 

Even then I wonder about the ability for any drug to provide that kind of relief on a continued long-term basis.

If I do drugs then it is to stop the brain from working so hard for a while, mine's running fine without additional stimulation. It's getting it shut up that's the trick for me.


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## c_lawrence (Mar 2, 2008)

> It is ridiculous to think drugs enhance creativity. I feel thats just a myth and people think they are being creative when there high but really your just as creative when your sober as you are when your high, the only difference is your lowered inhibitions when high may allow you to say or do something you might have held back when sober.
> 
> Same with the idea that a movie is funnier or better when high or looking at he stars while high is wild.. Thats a load of crap! The only drug that actually makes things like staring at the sky interesting is LSD or for that matter any halucinagen. But smoking some dope does nothing except make you high dont get it confused with something else


 
... I can't even comment on this... 



> Drugs is a creative stimulant for those people who want another justification for getting high.


 
Wow... such a close-minded judgment!



> Being creative isn't something you do occasionally on the weekend - it's taking a certain way of seeing the world...


 
And a MIND-ALTERING SUBSTANCE wouldn't change the way you see the world??



> It takes a long time to have real consistency in the creative process, much longer than it is possible to keep the same vibe going off a certain drug.


 
Maybe for you 



> If I do drugs then it is to stop the brain from working so hard for a while


 
.......?  

Some of these posts remind me of the FALSE anti-drug PROPOGANDA from the 30's -- maybe some of you would enjoy the film "Reefer Madness".


Look, here's the deal (in my opinion) - and this is the last time I'm posting on this thread because nothing I write will open up a mind on lock-down and there appears to be plenty of that here; at least with regard to this topic... people are either creative or they are not.  Studies have shown that "mind-altering" drugs, by definition, will enhance creativity in an already creative individual as this is controlled by our minds. (Again, this depends on the amount and type of drugs used - which was never specified in the original post -- For example, LSD, Opium, Psilocybin, Cannabis, ect. have been shown to enhance while many psychiatric drugs have been shown to inhibit)

Also, I think some of you might be getting a little revved up because you might think that recognizing that drugs may enhance creativity is the same as advocating drug use/abuse... it is not.

---------------------------​ 
"A closed mind is not only closed to outside thoughts, it is often closed to itself as well. It is closed to new thoughts and anything that threatens the status quo. But if you can open the doors, maybe just a crack at first, the ideas that have been patiently waiting at your gates will flood in." - Unknown


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## airgunr (Mar 2, 2008)

craig said:


> When I was in college I swore up and down weed helped my creativity. As I look back I feel it inhibited it. Certainly killed my motivation. These days I need a clear head to be creative.
> 
> For me weed and beer is more for the mental relaxation. Tripping is a whole other story. Kind of gave up on that as well.
> 
> Love & Bass


 
I too did my share back in the late 60's & early 70's.  With weed, at first it feels that way and I guess it did help to expand our outlook to begin with but it quickly turns around on you and you become much more lathargic.  Especially with Skunk, the old Thai Sticks, sinsimilla (sp?), etc.  You seem to have great ideas but rairly did anyone follow through on them.

The stuff like LSD, Mescaline, Peyote, etc. all effected us differently.  Again, at first you definitely saw things differenlty....  but too much just made you paranoid and screwed up most people I knew who did it too much.  

I'm sure there are the exceptions but I wouldn't recommend it.  I kind of wish I hadn't ever done them in the first place now.  As Craig said, "These days I need a clear head to be creative".  He's right.

Personnally I think weed should be legal like alcohol.  I'd rather deal with someone stoned on skunk than a roaring drunk.  I think it does less damage than alcohol in the long run.  All the prohibition on it (and other drugs) does is help fund gangs, crime and terrorism.  

Take out the profit motive and the crime ceases.  There wouldn't be anything to fight over.  As a side benefit you could tax it like alcohol and the funds could help in the education and care of addics much better than locking people up.  As always, follow the money!

Guess I digressed a bit.  Sorry, if the mods want to delete I will understand.


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## THORHAMMER (Mar 2, 2008)

Iron is pretty much got it in my view. 

if you really need drugs to make your best work, your should really weigh the pros and cons. 

Sure someone might be able to do something once or twice and be ok, maybe something more heavy once and be fine, but its just luck. You might get addicted (which is a lot easier then you think) and once that happens your chances of getting out alive are drastically cut down.  

Just look at all the famous people that died of overdoses for crying out loud. Lots of these people were famous and had money and a good support group, they couldn't even see their way out. do you think you have a better system then they ? 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_artists_who_died_of_drug-related_causes

My advice, don't even start on the trail. 
It doesn't lead to a good place. 

There place is in medicine, not to be abused. Not trying to sound might and mighty but seriously look up statistics, its not a winning game to play. 
You usually do not get out alive once you are hooked. I cant think of anything else that has taken away so many peoples freedom, lifes, family money etc..... than drugs. lets not forget.


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## Arch (Mar 2, 2008)

sure drugs can be bad... but this thread is not here to support the use of drugs, of course here at TPF we would advise against using them, but its only to answer the question of whether they ENHANCE creativity... many people are also starting to discuss whether they PRODUCE creativity, which is not abraxas original question. 
Also its wise to remember that the drug that causes the most deaths by a long way is tobacco.... followed by alcohol. :mrgreen:


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## Antithesis (Mar 2, 2008)

I found that when I had pot in my system, including after I was baked, I had less motivation and more creativity. It may have just been a placebo, but I felt I had a lot more of an imagination and thus more creativity. Also, some of the drawings I did will on hallucinacitory drugs were other-worldly and awesome, I kinda wish I'd kept them. 

I don't do any drugs other than alcohol, caffeine and nicotine anymore and no longer advocate the use of any illicit drugs, but I do feel that they can spur creative potential and broaden your horizons. I also feel that using LSD and mushrooms a couple times can open pathways in the brain and help with abstract thought (I mean after using them, not while your high). 

Don't do drugs. Unless your an artist and don't mind going to prison if your caught.


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## JerryPH (Mar 2, 2008)

abraxas said:


> Do drugs help us enhance or inhibit creativity and our expression of such?
> -


 
You are kidding right? This has to fall under the "stupid question" catagory.

Personally I would not even consider abusing my body and dulling mind with drugs under ANY non-medically warranted situation... much less the pretense of wanting to increase my "creativity". I've seen the stupid things people do while under the influence of even small amounts of alcohol, and I've held a cocaine OD'ed friend in my arms as she died... all in the name of getting high for the sake of expanding her perception of the world (another way to say creativity, perhaps?)

Anyone that needs recreational drugs to increase their quality of life has issues a LOT more serious than creativity to address.

Drugs are used to heal people and reduce pain and disease... not assist someone to become more creative, no matter what the excuse in the user's head they justify it under.

Puhleeze! :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


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## Mike_E (Mar 2, 2008)

.


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## ir0n_ma1den (Mar 2, 2008)

hard drugs = bad.
non-hard drugs = okay in moderation.


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## Phranquey (Mar 2, 2008)

I liked an earlier idea that the creativity is there, but the inhibitions are lowered to trying new things.  I smoked my share of weed, and always felt the urge to do something, try something new, either with a camera, airbrush, or whatever.
My favorite interview was watching Carl Sagan admit how his book "Cosmos" was founded.  He and his wife (also an astrophysicist) were in the shower smoking a joint, and began discussing ideas, which translated to using bars of soap to write formulas & ideas on the shower walls, which wound up turning into a pretty good book.
Alas, now I am a family man, with the mortgage, a very good career, and an employer who does randoms, so my partying days are long over.  Do I mind...not in the least bit.  Any regrets for what I have done in the past...not in the least bit.  I now have a seventeen year old son, and he knows what lays in my past, and knows that if I ever catch it, see it, or smell it (dad still has the "nose") he will be in trouble.
Do I sit there and say "wish I could get some"....nope.  I grab the camera, airbrush, or whatever, and go have some fun.


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## bill04 (Mar 2, 2008)

The only people who can comment that drugs increase, or decrease creativity are people who have used drugs. Plain and simple. If you say you have never used drugs, then you better have not drank one sip of alcohol, otherwise you are a liar. 


Personally, if I smoked some pot, I'd think of some crazy stuff. e.g, I'd though pointed rocks on top of a frozen lake dusted with snow around it resembled a mountain (hey, give cut me some slack, it was through the viewfinder. ) 

I later learned those shots were f****** retarded, and my IQ probably dropped several points by just looking at them. 

No doubt, drug use will stimulate the mind in ways that will not happen when sober. New stimulations will yield different work. Sometimes it's stupid, and sometimes it is amazing. There has been amazing artwork produced while the artist was under the influence. Have you never listened to Coltrane or Pink Floyd? Ever read or seen the movie Alice in Wonderland? 

Some people here are extremely closed-minded, and need to get a freakin' grip. It's that whole abstinence/straight edge campaign America has going. We can blame the "social conservatives" for that one. (Sorry, I had to take a stab at those extremely hypocritical, extremely twisted Christian preaching...........people)

http://blogs.salon.com/0002762/stories/2003/12/22/whyIsMarijuanaIllegal.html


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## Wozza (Mar 3, 2008)

I'm in the same boat as Iron. I have to say I'm not anti-softer drugs (in moderation) - but one thing that really irks me is when people think they NEED it to be creative or produce anything worthwhile.


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## Iron Flatline (Mar 3, 2008)

Let me be clear about something: I have taken every drug (and I mean EVERY drug) many many many times. Some I took too much, and got myself cleaned up. Some I have decided to continue taking, whereas some are best avoided.

One thing I have learned as I got older is that drugs do not enhance, enable, or incite creativity. Someone hear called me (indirectly) closed minded. Take it as face value, I'm on the other side. I did it all, sometimes a little, sometimes the perfect amount, sometimes way too much. The unequivical answer is: no, your creativity is still yours, the drug just makes it different. It does not make it better, or worse, or shinier, or tastier, or brigher - it just makes it different. And because it is _something that happens to you_, rather than being _something that you make happen_, it is effectively worthless. You cannot chase a dragon, he will appear when he wants to. 

Lord Byron may have drunk a lot of laudanum, but his best work happened before and after. During the high he was busy trying to shag his mistress, unless he passed out completely.


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## Mesoam (Mar 3, 2008)

when i'm high i come up with some of the best idea's i have ever had, inventions, ways to do things, how to fix certain things....

however i have NO desire to actually carry them out, mostly because i find a bag of dorrito's or something like that

occasionally i'll write them down and the next day put it to good use...

i will tell you, one of my roommates and I went grocery shopping high once and we ended up with the most amount of groceries for the LEAST amount of money we have spent yet. We were so concerned about each individual thing we were buying it led to an excellent overall purchase...granted it took us about 2hours


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## sabbath999 (Mar 3, 2008)

I have no idea whether drugs help or hinder creativity, since I try to avoid drugs of any kind. 

No booze, no sigs, no pills, no caffeine, etc.

My personal choice, not trying to say that what I choose for myself is in any way right for anybody else.

I think one would have to study the work done by somebody on drugs/vs when they were not on drugs, and see which is the more creative. I suspect some would be more creative on, and some off... but that is a total guess with nothing to support it.


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## Antithesis (Mar 3, 2008)

bill04 said:


> ...Ever read or seen the movie Alice in Wonderland?
> http://blogs.salon.com/0002762/stories/2003/12/22/whyIsMarijuanaIllegal.html



My girlfriend just took a childrens lit. class, and this was the first book they studied. There were no drugs involved, at all, no matter what the urban myths tell you. It was written in the 1870's if I'm correct, long before the merry pranksters. 

Like I said, I don't support the use of drugs at all, but everyones body is their own and I have no right to tell them what to do with it. I did a whole lot of drugs (primarily 'natural') as a self-medication when I was about 16 because my parents were going through a bitter divorce. I learned a lot about how to destroy very important parts of your brain by using drugs while your still developing mentally. I have no regrets because my life is turning out ok, but I was pretty nervous for a while when I felt brain-dead.


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## JerryPH (Mar 3, 2008)

Phranquey said:


> -I smoked my share of weed, and always felt the urge to do something, try something new, either with a camera, airbrush, or whatever.
> 
> - Alas, now I am a family man, with the mortgage, a very good career, and an employer who does randoms, so my partying days are long over.
> 
> ...


 
Not that I disagree with you, but a blatant case of double standards.  :lmao:

It was ok for you to partake, but if your son (whom you obviously care about), did, it would cuase trouble?

As a kid you were less informed and did stupid things. As an adult, you grew up, matured and realized it was unhealthy, so you stopped. That SAME issue of health is just as equally important for a growing human being as it is for an adult.

I think the point is made. 

As for that wonderful list of popular and well known drug users, how many tragically died way before their time? Oh yeah, they were the most creative people... in the cemetary. 

I am not patting myself on the back, but I am proud that I am 47 years old and I do not know what a hangover feels like, that I've not pushed crap into my arm via a dirty siringe and that I have mantained full control of my mind and body my whole life and not killed anyone while being behind the steering wheel, becuase of drinking alcohol and being to stupid to know that I should not drive.

I think people that get stoned, do it... but not for creativity's sake, but their own weakness and addictions. They KNOW it's wrong and bad, but do it anyways. 

Whatever. Those who wish to, should get stoned in the name of creativity... I am going to laugh my hiney off and point my finger at the mental midgits as they fry off the few irreplaceable brain cells they have left... lmao.


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## Arch (Mar 3, 2008)

bill04 said:


> The only people who can comment that drugs increase, or decrease creativity are people who have used drugs. Plain and simple.




This IS the answer to the original question.

Most the other opinions on drug use are 'nice' but uninformed.
The fact is a drug like cannabis DOES have an effect on your senses, namely your vision, hearing and taste. While under the influence of cannabis your creativity will be effected as your senses are hightened.

However, whether or not the end result is any good is a different story. You may produce something you never would have 'normally' produced... or maybe you produce what you would have anyway but with a worse technical ability.

It is therefore impossible to tell which is which... an example of this is:
would Andy Warhol have ever been inspired enough to create the Campbell's Soup Cans idea had he not been on drugs?
OR - 
Would he have created something more important if he hadn't been on drugs?

See an impossible question... but those who think it can help them are the ones that have tried it before and know enough about themselves to know, no one else can tell them the answer.


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## Mesoam (Mar 3, 2008)

JerryPH said:


> Not that I disagree with you, but a blatant case of double standards.  :lmao:
> 
> *-agree*
> 
> ...




side note, this thread is going to go nowhere fast


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## terri (Mar 3, 2008)

It's been an interesting read, and plenty of you have voiced very expressive opinions here. 

Just a reminder to keep it civil so you can keep it going if you'd like. There's nothing more tedious than having to lock a thread because of a few spoilers.... carry on.


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## Phranquey (Mar 3, 2008)

> Not that I disagree with you, but a blatant case of double standards.


 
I deserve that, and at times, I really do feel like a hypocrite for imposing these rules. But, my first job is to a be a parent, not a buddy. I believe I have a good friendship with my son, but the rules come first. He knows that when he turns 18, very soon (OMG...too soon), he will be responsible for his own actions (literally & _legally) _and his own life, but while I am responsible for his care, my rules apply. 
He also knows that I will never tell him that he is unwelcome in my home because of what he does or doesn't do.:hug::


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## c_lawrence (Mar 3, 2008)

I know... I said I wouldn't post here again, but I just can't seem to get away 

First, I want to address Iron Flatline... I did not call _you_ close-minded, I said your statement was a close-minded judgement - which it was.  You appeared to be making judgments/assumptions and writing them as factual statments.  Maybe this is not what you intended, but it is how your words read.  Additionally, I only commented specifically on some of your statments because they were the most recent examples at the time... certainly not the only examples in this thread!  My overall comments regarding close-mindedness, false propoganda, etc was about the thread as a whole and directed to those who, indeed, are turning thier assumptions and uneducated judgements into their own false anti-drug propoganda/soapbox.  

This brings me to my second point -  I want to reiterate that people still seem to be missing the point of the original post:  The question was NOT "Should I try/take drugs to increase my creativity" NOR was it "Do people _need_ drugs to increase creativity" NOR was it "Does everyone who takes drug become more creative".  The question simply asks...



> Do drugs help us enhance or inhibit creativity and our expression of such?


 
The fact is, they do both depending on the type, amount, and individual... it's been proven... there's your answer... whether drugs are bad for you, whether your will 'become a junkie after one hit' (ughhh!), whether other famous artists who were affected creatively by drugs died young, whether your personal creativity was enhance or inhibited, whether you believe the propoganda or not, whether you think drugs are the root of all evil (again, ughhh!)... none of this is even relevant to the question at hand.

Again, recognizing and acknowledging proven information, is not the same as advocating drug use/abuse... lighten up a little.

I can't believe I just sat here and wasted another minute of this thread.

... can't we all just get along?


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## Iron Flatline (Mar 3, 2008)

That's exactly where I disagree. Why is this so unacceptable?

Drugs may enhance creativity (momentarily), but I don't see them enhancing the continued expression of such.

I know what my creativity is about, and it takes a lot of elements to my work, none of which really benefit from being high - I know this, because I've tried it. 

As a matter of fact, I have tried it so many times, and know lots of other people who are serious about their creativity and have run substantial personal drug experiments, that I feel comfortable saying "No - drugs and creativity don't successfully mix." It may feel as though they do, but that's simply the novelty of doing the two things concurrently (drugs and whatever your creative pursuit is.) 

At its best, creativity is not something that you do with one or the other half o of your brain. Rather, it is strongly informed by feelings. Drugs have always shut down or altered the way a person feels. Not perceives, but really feels something. 

Any creative person has a ritual. Writers need to be consistent about the time (and often place) in which they can write, photographers need to face their subject a certain way, painters need their space. Any of the great artists in time have something in common: diligence and consistency. But none of them have ever listed any drugs as part of their ritual. There must be some exceptions, as there always are, of course. One writer (Graham Greene, I think) wrote that he had one glass of champagne after breakfast before he sat down to write, because it is part of his ritual. That doesn't sound like it is the kind of buzz that continues throughout the day.

And just to say it one more time: I've been around a lot of people, as am sure have many of you. The fact is most just get high because they like to get high. Typically they're still younger, so they're still getting to know themselves, are comfortable with themselves, and are exploring different versions and different environments. Getting high in combination with creativity is often part of that phase, and frankly a bit of a justification. 

You will find out quickly that it doesn't work over the long term. But by all means, do what you must. Just don't assume we're all a bunch of Dr. Phil watching church goers.


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## c_lawrence (Mar 3, 2008)

> You will find out quickly that it doesn't work over the long term. But by all means, do what you must. Just don't assume we're all a bunch of Dr. Phil watching church goers.


 
^^Are you responding to me? ... I really don't know what you're talking about...

Who said anything about working over the long term? do what you must? Dr. Phil watching church goers?



> I know what my creativity is about, and it takes a lot of elements to my work, none of which really benefit from being high - I know this, because I've tried it.
> 
> As a matter of fact, I have tried it so many times, and know lots of other people who are serious about their creativity and have run substantial personal drug experiments, that I feel comfortable saying "No - drugs and creativity don't successfully mix." It may feel as though they do, but that's simply the novelty of doing the two things concurrently (drugs and whatever your creative pursuit is.)


 
Again, your taking your own experiences and projecting them onto the "world" of drugs and creativity with no factual merit other than your own personal results. While your beliefs/perceptions obviously work for you, it does not mean that is 'how things are'. It is this type of thinking that I refer to when speaking of close-mindedness (not calling _you_ close-minded, but in some of your statements...) - to be unable to acknowledge that there is a world of experiences and truth out there that do not paralell your own - whether you agree with the "other" or not.



> Any creative person has a ritual.


 
It's these unfounded, concrete statements within your argument that make it appear weak and invalid.


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## THORHAMMER (Mar 3, 2008)

First of all, you cant talk about drugs without people also displaying their opinions about them, its just how it is. 

Some people have been in some intense situations and they cant talk about certain subjects without giving a little tiny bit of admonition, this is a good thing , this is what separates us from animals, we can learn the why behind the facts of life. Do what you want with it.......personally I think it takes guts and a lot of care to mention ones past and kind of try to give a little tiny advice to possibly help others out.

Iron is just displaying some mature care here , thats all. 
we should be so lucky there are older and wiser people to help give us advice. 

now onward to the subject at hand, 

I dont know if anyones really considers caffeine a serious drug, but I seem to be able to just go into a creative tear when I have some. But only a normal amount, too much and it doesnt work. I usually have a cup a day thats it. how to they doctors classify caffeine ? Im just curious...


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## c_lawrence (Mar 3, 2008)

> First of all, you cant talk about drugs without people also displaying their opinions about them, its just how it is


 
I agree... I express mine with relation to personal experience quite often (as I did earlier in this thread). However, expressing one's opinion and passing judgement and/or personal perceptions on as factual/concrete information are two completely different things.


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## abraxas (Mar 3, 2008)

JerryPH said:


> ... This has to fall under the "stupid question" catagory. ...



No, I consider it a 'gift.'

Straight or bent, I've never been bored a day in my life.


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## Iron Flatline (Mar 4, 2008)

Dude, c_lawrence, you've expressed your opinion, and now your bullying everyone here into somehow agreeing with you, or implying they're closed minded. 

Fine, please, you win this argument. You're unbelievably cool, and you do a lot of drugs, and you're a creative genius - both straight and even better high. 


Accept this: there are no facts to this conversation, because individuals can only live one life at a time. You don't get the chance to do it both ways. 

You've expressed your opinion, now move on. If someone is closed-minded, let them be - don't force your way on them. THAT would be closed minded.


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## passerby (Mar 4, 2008)

abraxas said:


> Do drugs help us enhance or inhibit creativity and our expression of such?-


 
I don't do drugs and I don't drink. But there was time for number of years where I -every now and then- took sleeping tablets to help me to sleep in facing shift rostering. In that limited experience I found it that the sleeping tablet was detremintal to my well being.

Anyway, in my opinion creative enhancing drugs to me are just a stimulant to help the crappy brain. Just like a car with dead battery, it needs to be jumped started.

There are better ways to do that. Religion teachs it's adherents to pray, in which many people misunderstood what pray is all about. When pray is used to benefit the self - it is a futile.

Another method is meditation. This one help to put the brain to have quick rest. Than hopefully it will have full capacity to do the duty ahead once the meditation end.

Than also body exercise. All of these are important to keep the body in it's full capacity. Than one of the most important thing you do have fun by it regardless of what is the outcome.

So no drugs or drink but cheers


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## rmh159 (Mar 4, 2008)

+1 for everything Iron has said.

For me... I've done my share and I feel it lowered inhibitions that might've hindered my "normal" abilities to be creative but it's not like it changed me or MADE me more creative.  <now I'm picturing Clark Kent smoking a doober and then ripping off his shirt and turning into Superman>.


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## mstephens (Mar 4, 2008)

most of the things that i have thought of while being high are the worst ideas ever when im not!!! HA HA HA!!! (i dont smoke anymore)


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## c_lawrence (Mar 4, 2008)

Iron Flatline... you're so funny! 
Man... maybe you should take it easy! 

Apparently you are not really paying attention to what is being written... 
First, I DONT do drugs (said that earlier)
Second, I didn't realize that speaking my opinion is "forcing" anyone to do or think anything??? The majority of this post is opinion... I haven't felt like I was being "forced" to agree with anyone.
Third, I agree there are not many facts to this conversation, but there ARE facts on this topic, and if you chose to ignore them, then that's your right. 
Forth, I have NEVER implied I am a creative "genuis". I have made it very clear on this forum that I have a LOT to learn.



> Accept this:


...are you "forcing" me?? 

"bullying everyone"... hahahahaha!... I have made no commands to anyone 





> ...now move on...


 ...but whatever. If someone stating thier opinion PARTIALLY in response to something you wrote.... well, I'm just glad I have read and written everything on this post while laughing my *** off... maybe you should try it sometime... I think it's important to remember that it is extremely difficult to determine one's emotions, sarcasm, intent, etc through written words online... much of this kind of information is gathered via body language or other visual, non-written gestures that you just can't pick up through a computer screen. So, when you are reading this stufff, try not to take it so personally. This one little thread on this one little forum is really meaningless in the whole scheme of things... For me, it's simply entertainment after an often emotionally excrutiating & exhausting day at work... It appears as though you have been hurt by me and are letting your blood pressure rise... this was certainly not my intention and, thus, my apologies for that.


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## Mesoam (Mar 5, 2008)

can someone close this thread, it has gone from an interesting read to beyond annoying and obnoxious....


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## Battou (Mar 5, 2008)

abraxas said:


> Do drugs help us enhance or inhibit creativity and our expression of such?
> 
> -



Ther is a reason that drug stores come standard with 1-hour photo


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## abraxas (Mar 5, 2008)

Mesoam said:


> can someone close this thread, it has gone from an interesting read to beyond annoying and obnoxious....



I agree.

Drugs seem to have worked for some and not for others.  Imaginations seem to have been sparked by usage in the past, but tends to get in the way in the current.

Thanks everyone for being honest about things. I still smoke weed, but find it to obscure things more and more every day and therefore use it less and less. I feel my work is becoming better for the lack of interest in the 'inspiration.'



Battou said:


> Ther is a reason that drug stores come standard with 1-hour photo



Yes- Because one hour photo booths have lousy drugs.

I love riddles.


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## Battou (Mar 5, 2008)

abraxas said:


> I agree.
> 
> Drugs seem to have worked for some and not for others.  Imaginations seem to have been sparked by usage in the past, but tends to get in the way in the current.
> 
> Thanks everyone for being honest about things. I still smoke weed, but find it to obscure things more and more every day and therefore use it less and less. I feel my work is becoming better for the lack of interest in the 'inspiration.'



I did not read much of this thread but I feel that I should add some real input, what little I have lol.  Drug useage can change not only thought processes but also demeaner during what ever creative endevour being tackled. My Ex-brother in law could not paint a car to save his life unless he was falling over drunk. When he painted in that condition it was always flawless, No conserns or dwelling on things seemed to result in a much steadier hand.





abraxas said:


> Yes- Because one hour photo booths have lousy drugs.
> 
> I love riddles.


 lol

K that is all I have to add


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## Arch (Mar 5, 2008)

on the request of you guys i will lock this little bad boy of a thread.... and lets all be friends about this.... so i (ironically) end the thread with a quote....

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

Amen.


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