# Different Kind(s)  of paper



## susnet (Feb 20, 2004)

Okay........I've tried glossy........don't care for it.   I'm looking for another type of paper.   Semi-Matte I love, but I'm getting a lot of scratches on my prints.   Can someone tell me what Pearl or even reg. Matte looks like?  Any suggestions on others that don't have that glossy look would greatly be appreciated. 

Oh, and can someone tell me the differences betweek Illford vs. kodax paper? (don't laugh, please)         I'm using Kodax now, and seem rather happy except for the scratches.

Thanks


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## voodoocat (Feb 20, 2004)

I use AGFA 312 Multicontrast RC paper.  It's semi matte and I've never scratched it.

How are you scratching it?  I knew if you look at kodak films the wrong way they scratch but thought paper was more durable.  If you're using metal tongs I would ditch those and get the wooden ones with rubber on the tips.


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## ksmattfish (Feb 20, 2004)

Just order a sampling of finishes in 25 packs.  You might also want to try out some warm or cool tone papers.  Only looking at your own work on the paper is going to tell you what you want to know.

I use Ilford, but there are a lot of good brands out there.  Personally I like neutral or warm tone glossy fiber paper.  The fiber adds texture to the surface so it's not as smooth as the RC paper.  It looks more like a pearl or semi-matte finish.  For RC I like the pearl, but I think Kodak may call their version of pearl semi-matte.


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## susnet (Feb 20, 2004)

I'm not sure how my prints are getting scratched.  I do use the tongs with the rubber tips.  I printed roughly 7 prints and 3 of them were scratched really bad.  I was wondering if it was my paper  (Kodax RC) or the fact that there was a bunch of us in the lab...........hmmm   I have to buy paper soon and I am so torn between the Illford and the Kodax.  I found a good deal on ebay of 100 per pack and I want to make sure I buy something that I will enjoy.   :?   The Pearl from Illford..........is that a Glossy type paper?


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## oriecat (Feb 21, 2004)

I only use Pearl papers.  I love it. 

As for scratching, are you rubbing the tongs over the print or something?  Make sure only to use the tongs on the edges.


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## ksmattfish (Feb 21, 2004)

Except for using metal tongs I have never scratched prints in the darkroom.  Usually they get scratched in storage, like if they are rubbing against each other.  It must be careless handling from the other folks in the darkroom.

100 sheets seems like a lot, but it will go faster than you imagine.  More important than brand is just that you get in the darkroom and practice, practice, practice.  In fact I recommend you buy a "house brand" (which is often repackaged Ilford anyway) such as Adorama or Arista.  It's cheaper so you can afford more; more practice printing is going to take you farther than any particular brand.


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## motcon (Feb 21, 2004)

if you are using a squeegee to remove the excess water after the wash, that is probably the problem. squegees suck.

if you are using an easel, don't adjust the blades when your paper is on it.


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## oriecat (Feb 21, 2004)

I thought about mentioning the squeegee after I posted...

I scratched one of my first prints at home with my brand new plastic tongs.  The sides have little sharp edges where the sides meet.  They must wear off with use, because I've never noticed them before.  I need to file them off.


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## ksmattfish (Feb 21, 2004)

Instead of using an official "print squeegee", which I find really hard, I go to the auto parts store and get a windshield wiper blade or squeegee for fancy sports cars.  They are very, very soft.


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## susnet (Feb 22, 2004)

Thanks for the advice and opinion.  It very well might be the squeegee, not to mention several tongs (and hands) reaching into the fix.  I have to keep a close eye on my prints in the darkroom. :roll:


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## TheProf (Feb 24, 2004)

If I had to choose between Illford and Kodak I would go with Illford, the paper seems to me to have a better tonal range and surface quality, Yes Pearl is the best. 

If your interested in trying Fiber based paper I swear by Forte Elegance warm tone. ( the nutral tone is nice too) I use Glossy but it's not like the horrible glossy RC produces more like a pearl in RC.   With Fiber you can get very rich black and beautiful tone!!


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## Solarize (Apr 27, 2004)

Has anyone tried Ilford MGFB warmtone paper? i've been thinking about getting some, opinions please.


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## ksmattfish (Apr 27, 2004)

Solarize said:
			
		

> Has anyone tried Ilford MGFB warmtone paper? i've been thinking about getting some, opinions please.



I use it all the time for portraits.  Without toning it takes on a very light beige color.  It is much more responsive to toning than regular Ilford papers.  I like to split tone it with sepia and selinium to get a reddish brown tone.


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## havoc (Apr 28, 2004)

Yeah if your using RC paper and don't like the glossy, then try fiber glossy. It does't have that cheap plasticy sheen over it like the RC equivilant. I love Illford though i do occasionally use Kodak when i am running low on Illford. The Illford paper seems to have a one stop more contrast then the Kodak. So with illford i could use a #2 filter with my base exposure, but with kodak i would usually have to go with a #3 filter instead.  I love Illford warm tone, one the right photograph it can look amazing. 
Just remember if your going to try fiber papers, they require a longer rinse then RC, but they also should last alot longer if toned correctly.


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## Solarize (Apr 28, 2004)

Havoc said:
			
		

> Just remember if your going to try fiber papers, they require a longer rinse then RC



I havent actually workerd with FB paper yet, but I have read that it gets darker as it dries.  Is it a very noticable amount and if so do you compensate when printing?


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## havoc (Apr 28, 2004)

There is the problem of drydown with fiber paper, but i always thought RC had the same problem. The problem is just that when the elusion is in the chems it swells slightly as it gets saturated, that pulls the silver grains farther away from each other, so when it looks right wet, after it dries and the silver shrinks back to its normal distance apart, it looks alittle darker then it was wet.

I print alittle light, (not much) to deal with dry down. It enevitably is a thing of feel, but if you stick to the same paper, you usually learn pretty qucikly what to expect.


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## TheProf (May 3, 2004)

A good general rule of thumb is that a print will dry down about 10% darker.  Obviously this is diffrent from paper to paper but itll get you close.


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## Firelance (May 5, 2004)

Talking about these cool and warmtone papers; can anyone scan a print so I can see what it actually is... It's just that I'm experimenting with all kinds of different papers.

thanks in advance


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## oriecat (May 5, 2004)

I don't think you can really tell by looking at them online, but both of these were printed on Ilfords Cooltone RC (Pearl):

http://moltenwords.net/index.php?p=50
http://moltenwords.net/index.php?p=45


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## Firelance (May 5, 2004)

indeed it's hard to tell what actually happened... Now, what does this cooltone thing do? Does it takes away some contrast? gives it a bit of colour?


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## oriecat (May 5, 2004)

I don't think it does either of that really.  It's hard for me to describe.  But it's kind of like when you go to a paint store and there are 4000 versions of white, there are warm whites and cool whites, ya know?  So the paper starts out at a not so neutral place and the grays develop based on that.  Maybe someone else can describe it better.  

I think warmtone might be easier to see than cooltone.  Warmtone to me always has a bit of a brownish tint to it, giving it the warmth.


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## havoc (May 6, 2004)

I haven't used cool tone, but i thought it had blueish white tint to it.


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## windycitylover (May 15, 2004)

Solarize said:
			
		

> Havoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have never noticed the difference of it getting darker as it dries.


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## windycitylover (May 15, 2004)

Havoc said:
			
		

> Yeah if your using RC paper and don't like the glossy, then try fiber glossy. It does't have that cheap plasticy sheen over it like the RC equivilant. I love Illford though i do occasionally use Kodak when i am running low on Illford. The Illford paper seems to have a one stop more contrast then the Kodak. So with illford i could use a #2 filter with my base exposure, but with kodak i would usually have to go with a #3 filter instead.


I noticed that during my first semester of photography in college. I first used Kodak, and later user Ilford. While I was using Kodak, most of my prints looked best with a #3 filter, but with the Ilford, a 2 or a 2.5 was usually the best.


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## ksmattfish (May 15, 2004)

I use Ilford FB and RC papers, and RC in assorted house brands like Arista and Adorama, and I've experienced some dry down with all of them.  It's definately slight on the RC paper, but I still usually compensate for it with a 5% to 10% decrease in exposure.  With FB it's usually 10% to 20%.  

Obviously different drying methods would produce different results.  I have only been drying my prints on screens or hanging them.  Some photogs are taping FB prints to glass, plexiglass, boards, etc..., and claim no dry down effect.


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## windycitylover (May 16, 2004)

ksmattfish said:
			
		

> I use Ilford FB and RC papers, and RC in assorted house brands like Arista and Adorama, and I've experienced some dry down with all of them.  It's definately slight on the RC paper, but I still usually compensate for it with a 5% to 10% decrease in exposure.  With FB it's usually 10% to 20%.
> 
> Obviously different drying methods would produce different results.  I have only been drying my prints on screens or hanging them.  Some photogs are taping FB prints to glass, plexiglass, boards, etc..., and claim no dry down effect.


I use a drum dryer.


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