# Nightmare shoot, unhappy customer, advice please!



## Rickroll (Jan 7, 2014)

Hi all. I'm new and this place is huge, so sorry if this is the wrong area to discuss this.

I was recently contacted by a woman who wanted her three sons photographed. She had issues getting to the studio so it was arranged that I would take my mobile kit and conduct the shoot at her residence. When I arrived, she was waiting with her three sons but also had her two nieces there, wanting all five to be photographed. I felt a bit ambushed as this wasn't what was agreed, but I figured it wouldn't make too much difference and I was already there so I set up and began the shoot.

All 5 children were under 5 years old and most were quite unruly. On top of this, two just would not stop crying throughout the entire process. I've worked with lots of children over the years and I am fully aware that they have their on rules and will do as they please, but the mother was unwilling to put any control over them and I am of course limited in how much I can say and do with other peoples children so I just tried to muddle on.

About 15 minutes in, the mother removed all but the two crying children from the set and asked that I shoot them alone, which I did, though neither stopped crying. She then recalled the three other children to be shot without the two who were crying. By this point the children had lost all interest and were not keeping still or doing anything else asked of them. The shoot was turning into a disaster and I could tell the mother was starting to feel embarrassed and a bit stressed out. She asked that I take the two sets of images and edit them together to make whole group photos. Now, I'm pretty handy with my edits but I said to her that this would be a long and challenging process (she was having 50 prints) and that there wouldn't be enough material to work with without duplicating some images. She had only booked me for an hour and we were already way past that.

I decided to try again getting them together in a group, but again to no avail. There was never less than two of them crying at any one time, which instinctively made them get up and try going to their mother, who then kept dragging them back down in front of the camera, while the ones who weren't crying were getting distracted by the drama and climbing all over the equipment, etc. 

In the end she said she had had enough of trying because the children wouldn't play ball, and I think she was a bit embarrassd, to be honest. At this point I knew the whole thing was going to be a bust and I was now late to another appointment, so I offered to come back on another day and reshoot in the hope that the children would be a bit more settled. I even offered to do it at no extra cost because I knew that the photos would be poor and I didn't want her to be disappointed. She turned down the offer, telling me to just try my best with what I had. She was fully aware that the images would not be up to standard and that splicing them together wouldn't make up for the lack of good quality images, and she was even apologetic for how badly it had all gone. I again offered to reshoot, but she once more turned the offer down.

Just as expected, when I ran the images through the editing suite they were a disaster. The only redeeming quality they had was that the lighting was excellent, but other than that I was faced with runny noses, crying eyes, heads faced away from the camera, spots where children were missing entirely and a whole host of other problems. Had the order been smaller I could have done the job fine, but the idea of building up to 40 images out of random parts to get the full total was daunting. Once again I spoke with the client, explained the situation and offered to reshoot. She again said no, told me that after the way the children behaved she would be happy with anything and told me to get on with it. So I did.

It took longer than normal, as I explained it would, and to be honest about 75% of the finished product was a mess. Edits are one of my strongest points, but I found this to be extremely difficult and I was working on images I wouldn't normally dare even show to a customer, let alone offer as part of their package, but I didn't know what else I could do. Every offer to re-shoot was turned down and even when I explained that they wouldn't be amazing, she still wanted me to go ahead and edit them together anyway. I did the best that I could manage, tried to hide as many issues as I could and then sent her the proofs by the due date. Now, the images were by no means perfect, and I admit that I would never show them to another soul as my own work, but considering what I was working with they could have turned out a whole lot worse than they did and some of them turned out fantastically, though I admit they were in a small minority. 

Anyway, when she got the images back she was not pleased, as I expected she probably wouldn't be. She is fully aware of my work and so knows that this is not my usual standard, however she is also very aware of the challenges we faced on the day of the shoot and so I did expect she would react slightly better. She is now demanding a reshoot and her money back (one or the other is perhaps understandable, but both seems extreme) and is threatening to bad mouth me to everyone she knows. I'm from a small community and despite some stiff competition I do pretty well for myself. People are aware of me and my work and I get a lot of interest, but I've never had a negative response so far and now I'm worried that my reputation will be unfairly damaged. I have offered the reshoot, as I feel partly responsible, but that doesn't mean that she won't complain to everyone about it anyway. And despite her not liking 'a single damn picture', the email address she contacted me with within an hour of having her proofs already had one of them as the profile image, and a quick snoop on facebook showed that another seperate one was now her profile picture there (with lots of likes and positive comments, too).

I know that this is a huge ranty post, and for that I apologise, but I was wondering what others think would be the best course of action here? Or if anyone has faced anything similar. A reshoot is easy enough and that can all be put right, but her bad words against me, if they come, could be far more damaging. Am I worrying over nothing or should I do more than agree to a reshoot in order to keep her happy? If it makes any difference, I've also got written copies of our correspondence where she turned down reshoots and where I have explained that the quality of the images are not as good as I would have liked due to issues on the day, and her saying she doesn't care etc.


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## The_Traveler (Jan 7, 2014)

What does your contract say about time, responsibilities, reshoots, etc?


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## gsgary (Jan 7, 2014)

Get a solicitor to send her a letter quoting she can have money back or a reshoot and any bad mouthing will be dealt with in court


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## Smokeyr67 (Jan 7, 2014)

I'd give her the money back, a letter stating that any bad mouthing will end up in court and give her the number of someone you dislike to take on any further shoots.


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## Rickroll (Jan 7, 2014)

Hi.

This is where it gets a bit complicated. The contract for this particular shoot states that it was for an hour and that a charge for overtime could be incurred, which I didn't charge for as I felt sorry for her and the hard time she was having with the children, even though it ran to nearly 2 1/2 hours. As for content, I'm paraphrasing here, but it basically states that I am responsible for any technical problems, bad lighting, over exposure, bad finish etc, but that when shooting young children I'm not responsible if the child/children aren't playing ball. I know that seems vague, but I did explain to her in full detail. For example, I can take a hundred beautiful pictures of a crying child, but if she hates the fact the child is crying in every picture, and the child won't stop crying, then I am not responsible for that as long as the quality of the image is of a high standard. The contract states that no reshoot will be offered unless the problem lies with me, or at my discression, though I was offering one before she had even finished the first shoot as I knew it wouldn't work out.

The problem is, the overall quality of the images isn't up to scratch, however this is due to the content. I'm not trying to pass the buck here in terms of the issue but the lighting, finish etc is fine. Her problem is that she is unhappy that they aren't looking perfectly posed, or that the children are crying, or that the baby looks uncomfortable the way he is being held by the other children. One of the children didn't smile in one single frame, no matter how much me and his mum tried to get him to, and despite her knowing this, another one of her complaints is that he looks too glum. Some of the images where I have had to edit two or more together aren't particularly obvious, but because she is aware that they are 'fake', she has also complained about them (one, she said, she would have preferred to have had one of the children sat at the opposite side of the image), which puts me at a loss either way because I either edit the images together as asked, or not meet the order, and either way she would have something to complain about.


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## Rickroll (Jan 7, 2014)

Sorry, I didn't see the middle two replies. 

She has said that she wants both a refund and a reshoot. One or the other I am willing to do for an easy life, but not both. That hardly seems fair, especially when I don't think full responsibility lies with me. I have told her that I am willing to offer one or the other, but this just seems to have made her mad and then she stopped replying, so now I'm really anxious about what she might be saying about me online or to others. In the few years I've been doing this I've never had a complaint before and now I'm really worried because she seems so mad and unreasonable about it all.


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## gsgary (Jan 7, 2014)

Where these shot down South ? Northerners are more forgiving


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## The_Traveler (Jan 7, 2014)

Nope, if she bad mouths you, document it, get a solicitor to send a letter and then sue her for defamation.


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## kathyt (Jan 7, 2014)

I would NOT refund one penny, especially for all of the time spent in post processing. Reshoot it or give her what you have. Those are her options. Period. Do not let her walk all over you.


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## robbins.photo (Jan 7, 2014)

Rickroll said:


> Sorry, I didn't see the middle two replies.
> 
> She has said that she wants both a refund and a reshoot. One or the other I am willing to do for an easy life, but not both. That hardly seems fair, especially when I don't think full responsibility lies with me. I have told her that I am willing to offer one or the other, but this just seems to have made her mad and then she stopped replying, so now I'm really anxious about what she might be saying about me online or to others. In the few years I've been doing this I've never had a complaint before and now I'm really worried because she seems so mad and unreasonable about it all.



Ok, so from the sounds of things legally your pretty well covered here.  If you want my advice, leave it alone.  Don't try contacting her anymore.  If and when she calms down and wants to discuss things rationally then maybe you can come to a compromise, but until then there really isn't anything more that can be done.  At this stage just from the situation you described she's way too emotional about this whole thing and even if you were to do a reshoot and a refund I doubt she'd be satisfied and you'd still have her bad mouthing you, so not much point in giving away the farm.  

If and when she calms down and contacts you then if you feel obliged to offer a reshoot, by all means do so - however I would recommend you do it on your own turf if at all possible.  Explain to her that even though it might be difficult for her to come to the studio that those are the conditions under which you are comfortable doing a reshoot.   Also explain to her that while you are willing to do a single reshoot, that it will be a one shot deal.  If she cannot get the children to cooperate then you will not make third attempt.

But the key here is to wait until she contacts you - until then just leave it alone.  That would be my advice at any rate.


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## weepete (Jan 7, 2014)

I think she is taking the piss mate. Your offer of a refund or a reshoot is already above what your contract says she is entitled to and it seems like she is wanting something for free. 

I also think it doesn't really matter what you do, given her behavior (and the total unwillingness control of her own kids) she will probably bad mouth you anyway, whither she gets a refund, another shoot or a refund and a reshoot. Some people are unreasonable t***s but you can take comfort in that the people she knows will probably know her too.


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## Rickroll (Jan 7, 2014)

Thanks to everyone who has replied.

I'm really hoping it will all blow over. I spent more time in post for this shoot than I have for any other I have ever done, and I'm really disappointed that it's all turned so sour after putting in way more hours than the shoot ended up being worth. If and when she messages me again, I will offer the reshoot and hope that she accepts it so this can all be put to bed, however I don't think I am in for an easy ride with it. I know for a fact she has complained to a friend that we have in common, as they have told me this evening, however part of me feels like it's a bit of a double standard that she complains and demands a reshoot and a refund, yet is obviously happy enough to be using the images on social network sites and in her email profile.


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## The_Traveler (Jan 7, 2014)

Rickroll said:


> Thanks to everyone who has replied.
> 
> I'm really hoping it will all blow over. I spent more time in post for this shoot than I have for any other I have ever done, and I'm really disappointed that it's all turned so sour after putting in way more hours than the shoot ended up being worth. If and when she messages me again, I will offer the reshoot and hope that she accepts it so this can all be put to bed, however I don't think I am in for an easy ride with it. I know for a fact she has complained to a friend that we have in common, as they have told me this evening, however part of me feels like it's a bit of a double standard that she complains and demands a reshoot and a refund, yet is obviously happy enough to be using the images on social network sites and in her email profile.



Do screen captures on all that usage - and then ignore her.


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## JerryVenz (Jan 7, 2014)

If our clients are not completely satisfied with our product FOR ANY REASON (even after delivery of a wall print) we offer another session FREE.

That being said, we make absolutely sure we know exactly what the client REALLY wanted but failed to communicate to us--so we're all on the same page.  Sometimes you must change the setting with hard to handle kids.  We've found that if studio fails many times an outdoor session will work with children--and that our sales are usually higher as well when we go outside.

Speaking of sales, it sounds like you are doing "PROOFS" online--since she got hold of images and posted them on her Facebook page. 

BIG MISTAKE!!!  WE DO NOT PUT ANYTHING ONLINE UNTIL AFTER OUR CLIENTS HAVE SEEN THEIR PREMIERE IN OUR STUDIO AND PLACED AND PAID FOR THEIR ORDER IN FULL. ANY DEVIATION FROM THIS PROCEDURE WILL REDUCE PROFITS PER SESSION!!

In our 25 years in business, full time, we have only done session redos for THREE clients--in the worst case senario where we delivered large wall prints and they were not satisfied. However, in two of those cases, they were so thrilled with the new session that they bought enough extra prints that we made a good profit beyond the cost of replacing their wall portrait!

Hang in there, most clients are reasonable and fair and appreciate what you do for them!


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## Rickroll (Jan 7, 2014)

The_Traveler said:


> Do screen captures on all that usage - and then ignore her.



Would that actually count for anything though, if things turned nasty?


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## Derrel (Jan 7, 2014)

Great client!!! Wonderful children! NOT!!!!!!

I feel bad for you. The kids will all probably grow up to be little w***ers, with parenting like that.


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## Rickroll (Jan 7, 2014)

JerryVenz said:


> If our clients are not completely satisfied with our product FOR ANY REASON (even after delivery of a wall print) we offer another session FREE.
> 
> That being said, we make absolutely sure we know exactly what the client REALLY wanted but failed to communicate to us--so we're all on the same page.  Sometimes you must change the setting with hard to handle kids.  We've found that if studio fails many times an outdoor session will work with children--and that our sales are usually higher as well when we go outside.
> 
> ...



The proofs were sent to her electronically because she asked that I not call to see her as she was unsure when she would be free, and again, getting to the studio was an issue for her. All were stamped and watermarked, so ironically she is sort of promoting me by using them on her profiles. I am not connected with her on Facebook, but the comments made by her friends there on the image she is using have been extremely positive and she is at least not saying anything negative on that, but the rest of her profile is unviewable to me so I don't know what else is being said.

As for shooting outside, I suggested this both before the shoot and upon my arrival, but she was very against this. She wanted a plain white background and nothing else. This made the edits easier, but still not as good as she hoped, obviously. There was no crossed wires about what she wanted. She was present for the whole shoot and we corresponded the whole time about everything. The only thing she did not specify, was where to place the children after editing images together, so I put them where they looked best in each image and most realistic.


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## tirediron (Jan 7, 2014)

Rickroll said:


> The_Traveler said:
> 
> 
> > Do screen captures on all that usage - and then ignore her.
> ...


This is where you need to speak to a solicitor.

To be totally frank, I think most of the error is yours for carrying on when it was clear that the children weren't going to cooperate.  After about 30 minutes (at the MOST), I would have said, "I'm sorry Mrs. Jones, but we're already at the half-way point in the session and based on my experience, I doubt we're going to be able to capture anything that will be of the quality I would require to show you.  I will be happy to book another full session for you at no cost at some point in the future, but please remember that if you want all five children photographed, there will be a small extra charge of $____ for that."


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## Rickroll (Jan 7, 2014)

Thanks for your input, it's appreciated. I did do what you instructed, but as I said in my OP, she refused the offer of a reshoot at the time of the original shoot and when I was telling her that the images were not going to be of high quality due to the distractions, she seemed unfazed and wanted to continue on, regardless of my advice to the contrary. Short of flat out refusing to do the shoot, there was little else I could do and while I accept that some responsibility is on me, I don't think that most of the error is mine because I continued on with the shoot at the request of the client. Stopping, especially after she had refused the offer to reshoot, would certainly have left me in a worse position than I am in now, I think


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## amolitor (Jan 8, 2014)

I would ask around and see if she's done this before with other local photographers. What she is angling for is a bunch of free photographs. She may have developed a system for getting them.


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## pgriz (Jan 8, 2014)

One of the costs of doing business is coming across unreasonable and abusive clients.  In my experience, the faster you can recognize that you're dealing with "one of those", the faster you can get to the exit.   In your situation, I think you've been given some very good advice already.  The take-away may be to look back and see if/when the warning signs started to show up, and to see when it would have been appropriate to bail.  Fortunately, the proportion of "bad" clients to "good" is generally quite low, and for most clients it is possible to find ways to accomodate even when things went off the rails.  For the "bad" clients, there usually is no reasonable way.


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## Steve5D (Jan 8, 2014)

Rickroll said:


> She has said that she wants both a refund and a reshoot. One or the other I am willing to do for an easy life, but not both.



And you absolutely shouldn't.

Basically, she wants you to give her the money she paid you back, _and _reshoot the screaming little meatheads again. 

I've got a better chance of having a baby.

Ask her to explain, _logically_, how that makes sense. Ask her to explain, _logically_, why she should receive a _completely _free portrait session because she was unable to control her little curtain climbers.

Seriously, ask her to do those things. If she can do it, then give her the money back and do the reshoot.

No worries, though, because the two things she would be trying to explain simply defy logic...


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## Steve5D (Jan 8, 2014)

Rickroll said:


> The_Traveler said:
> 
> 
> > Do screen captures on all that usage - and then ignore her.
> ...



It would go to show that, despite her telling you she didn't like them, she actually _did _like them enough to share them with her friends...


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## Mach0 (Jan 8, 2014)

I didn't read the entire thread but this happens. It sucks but it does. I've kept candy and toys with me and bribed them or played the goof ball. Usually worked out. However, I have only done this with family. I have never attempted it with actual clients.


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## EIngerson (Jan 8, 2014)

I feel for you man. I couldn't imagine dealing with that. Yet another reason for me to stay at the hobbiest/enthusiast level. You can keep days like that.


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## yioties (Jan 8, 2014)

You won't be able to satisfy customers like this! Cut your losses and give her, her money back and never look back!


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## Rickroll (Jan 8, 2014)

Thanks for all the input guys, I appreciate it.

I haven't heard from her today at all, which I thought may have been a good sign, however a friend of mine phoned me to let me know that she had approached him this morning asking if he was able to edit out my watermark from the proofs that I had sent over to her so that she could get them printed. My assumption is that she didn't know that we are friends and that it would get back to me, because she told him that I had sent her the proofs before Christmas (I didn't) and that she has not been able to get hold of me since in order to let me know what she wants printed, and so she is left with a selection of unusable proofs that she wants printing. He told her he wasn't able to and then contacted me. He wasn't aware that there had been an issue and assumed she was just trying to pull a fast one, which is now what I'm starting to think to, however I'm still sort of over a barrel because I can't prove that she has done this and if she still demands a refund or a reshoot I guess I'm sort of obligated, meaning I will either lose out on the money or end up working a load more hours for free. I'm not so bothered about the money, tbh. To get this over with I'd happily give it back, but I feel reluctant knowing that someone is obviously trying to do me over on this one, and doesn't have a genuine complaint.


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## kathyt (Jan 8, 2014)

Rickroll said:


> Thanks for all the input guys, I appreciate it.
> 
> I haven't heard from her today at all, which I thought may have been a good sign, however a friend of mine phoned me to let me know that she had approached him this morning asking if he was able to edit out my watermark from the proofs that I had sent over to her so that she could get them printed. My assumption is that she didn't know that we are friends and that it would get back to me, because she told him that I had sent her the proofs before Christmas (I didn't) and that she has not been able to get hold of me since in order to let me know what she wants printed, and so she is left with a selection of unusable proofs that she wants printing. He told her he wasn't able to and then contacted me. He wasn't aware that there had been an issue and assumed she was just trying to pull a fast one, which is now what I'm starting to think to, however I'm still sort of over a barrel because I can't prove that she has done this and if she still demands a refund or a reshoot I guess I'm sort of obligated, meaning I will either lose out on the money or end up working a load more hours for free. I'm not so bothered about the money, tbh. To get this over with I'd happily give it back, but I feel reluctant knowing that someone is obviously trying to do me over on this one, and doesn't have a genuine complaint.


Wow. I would kindly let her know that you own the copyright to the images and that having someone remove the watermark is illegal and unethical. Then ask her if she needs help finishing her order, because the gallery will only be active till XYZ date.


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## tirediron (Jan 8, 2014)

Rickroll said:


> Thanks for all the input guys, I appreciate it.
> 
> I haven't heard from her today at all, which I thought may have been a good sign, however a friend of mine phoned me to let me know that she had approached him this morning asking if he was able to edit out my watermark from the proofs that I had sent over to her so that she could get them printed. My assumption is that she didn't know that we are friends and that it would get back to me, because she told him that I had sent her the proofs before Christmas (I didn't) and that she has not been able to get hold of me since in order to let me know what she wants printed, and so she is left with a selection of unusable proofs that she wants printing. He told her he wasn't able to and then contacted me. He wasn't aware that there had been an issue and assumed she was just trying to pull a fast one, which is now what I'm starting to think to, however I'm still sort of over a barrel because I can't prove that she has done this and if she still demands a refund or a reshoot I guess I'm sort of obligated, meaning I will either lose out on the money or end up working a load more hours for free. I'm not so bothered about the money, tbh. To get this over with I'd happily give it back, but I feel reluctant knowing that someone is obviously trying to do me over on this one, and doesn't have a genuine complaint.



I feel your pain!  My feeling is that at this point, anything you can do to separate yourself from this person is what you need to do!  If it were me, and knowing that your secure legally (at least so it would seem - consult your solicitor for confirmation), I might even go so far as to send her a refund cheque along with a 'don't say something I will make you regret' letter from my lawyer.  If you do refund her the money, make sure you have a witness to the refund and preferably do it in a form which can be tracked, but whatever you do, get away from this person.


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## robbins.photo (Jan 8, 2014)

Rickroll said:


> Thanks for all the input guys, I appreciate it.
> 
> I haven't heard from her today at all, which I thought may have been a good sign, however a friend of mine phoned me to let me know that she had approached him this morning asking if he was able to edit out my watermark from the proofs that I had sent over to her so that she could get them printed. My assumption is that she didn't know that we are friends and that it would get back to me, because she told him that I had sent her the proofs before Christmas (I didn't) and that she has not been able to get hold of me since in order to let me know what she wants printed, and so she is left with a selection of unusable proofs that she wants printing. He told her he wasn't able to and then contacted me. He wasn't aware that there had been an issue and assumed she was just trying to pull a fast one, which is now what I'm starting to think to, however I'm still sort of over a barrel because I can't prove that she has done this and if she still demands a refund or a reshoot I guess I'm sort of obligated, meaning I will either lose out on the money or end up working a load more hours for free. I'm not so bothered about the money, tbh. To get this over with I'd happily give it back, but I feel reluctant knowing that someone is obviously trying to do me over on this one, and doesn't have a genuine complaint.



Try to think about it in these terms, if you bend over backwards to give her everything she wants then your just encouraging her to do the same thing next time to some other small business - she needs to learn that she doesn't just get to throw a hissy fit and get her way.  Maybe if she understood that she could have passed that lesson along to her children and the whole photoshoot would have gone smoothly as a result.  However since she obviously feels entitled to have her cake and eat it too, her kids are turning out to be little monsters as well.  So tell her no.. in fact not just no but hell no. Do it for the children.. lol


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## amolitor (Jan 8, 2014)

My guess is that she's a scammer and has most likely done this before.


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## Derrel (Jan 8, 2014)

This thread just gets better and better!


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## paigew (Jan 8, 2014)

Wow!! What nerve! I would do as Kathy suggested. The ball is totally in your court now.


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## Braineack (Jan 8, 2014)

Why did the username change to Rickroll?


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## Railphotog (Jan 8, 2014)

Wow, I think (if I were a pro) I'd tell her to fornicate elsewhere!


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## vintagesnaps (Jan 8, 2014)

Probably it would have been better to address the situation of her bringing 5 kids as soon as she walked in the door... After this situation it seems like you'll need to think about your policies or procedures/guidelines and make them clear to potential clients before they even schedule. And have it in writing along with what's in your current contracts.

In the type work I've done, not photography related but working w/kids and families, our program gave parents info. when they enrolled; when needed I could refer back to it (remember that handbook/brochure? it says this that or the other, so we'll need to do this that or whatever...). I know a photographer in my area that does something similar to John, after a certain amount of time if the child/children aren't able to continue on with the session then it gets rescheduled.

I agree with others that it might be best at this point to cut your losses and be done with this family. Since she has the pictures already I doubt there's any getting them back. Up to you if you want to make any refund or not; seems like it would be appropriate to expect at least a payment for your time but since the photos did not turn out well I don't know if it'd be worth pursuing keeping the entire payment or if a partial refund would defuse the situation.


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## wyogirl (Jan 8, 2014)

I wouldn't worry too much about her ruining your reputation.  Most likely, anyone she has contact with, knows what kind of person she is and how her kids behave.  Also, most likely, you don't want any of her friends as clients anyway.

I realize that her opinion may be a little further reaching than her circle of friends, but what one person says isn't going to make or break you.  How you handle it will say a lot more about you as a business person.  It sounds like you have an already built up client base who will outweigh any negativity coming from one crazy lady with heathen children.


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## robbins.photo (Jan 8, 2014)

vintagesnaps said:


> Probably it would have been better to address the situation of her bringing 5 kids as soon as she walked in the door... After this situation it seems like you'll need to think about your policies or procedures/guidelines and make them clear to potential clients before they even schedule. And have it in writing along with what's in your current contracts.
> 
> In the type work I've done, not photography related but working w/kids and families, our program gave parents info. when they enrolled; when needed I could refer back to it (remember that handbook/brochure? it says this that or the other, so we'll need to do this that or whatever...). I know a photographer in my area that does something similar to John, after a certain amount of time if the child/children aren't able to continue on with the session then it gets rescheduled.
> 
> I agree with others that it might be best at this point to cut your losses and be done with this family. Since she has the pictures already I doubt there's any getting them back. Up to you if you want to make any refund or not; seems like it would be appropriate to expect at least a payment for your time but since the photos did not turn out well I don't know if it'd be worth pursuing keeping the entire payment or if a partial refund would defuse the situation.



I wouldn't go with a refund, partial or otherwise to be honest with you.  You wasted your time and gas getting out there, and she is using the product you provided even though she claims she wasn't happy with it - and honestly from what's been said thus far I seriously doubt even a full refund would satisfy her, she'd just take the money and bad mouth you anyway.  Same with a refund + reshoot I would imagine, she'd find something wrong with the reshoot and most likely want another, or something else.  She just strikes me as being one of those people.

So if it were me I'd just walk away from it - whatever she is going to say she'll say anyway so it's not like you gain anything by trying to work with her at this stage.   If she actually does make contact with you I would be polite and professional, but I would simply explain to her that a refund is completely out of the question.  Let her know that you will not even consider that as a viable option.   If you really think the situation might be helped by a reshoot then by all means, but I think your going to find that most likely that won't be the case.

I will pass along to you this pearl of wisdom uttered by my Grandfather, and it is as true today as it was in his day:

"Son, People suck."

Very wise man my grandpappy.. lol..


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## manicmike (Jan 8, 2014)

Punch her in the nose.


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## snowbear (Jan 8, 2014)

The_Traveler said:


> Do screen captures on all that usage - and then ignore her.



. . . or send her a bill for the overtime.


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## Steve5D (Jan 8, 2014)

Rickroll said:


> Thanks for all the input guys, I appreciate it.
> 
> I haven't heard from her today at all, which I thought may have been a good sign, however a friend of mine phoned me to let me know that she had approached him this morning asking if he was able to edit out my watermark from the proofs that I had sent over to her so that she could get them printed. My assumption is that she didn't know that we are friends and that it would get back to me, because she told him that I had sent her the proofs before Christmas (I didn't) and that she has not been able to get hold of me since in order to let me know what she wants printed, and so she is left with a selection of unusable proofs that she wants printing. He told her he wasn't able to and then contacted me. He wasn't aware that there had been an issue and assumed she was just trying to pull a fast one, which is now what I'm starting to think to, however I'm still sort of over a barrel because I can't prove that she has done this and if she still demands a refund or a reshoot I guess I'm sort of obligated, meaning I will either lose out on the money or end up working a load more hours for free. I'm not so bothered about the money, tbh. To get this over with I'd happily give it back, but I feel reluctant knowing that someone is obviously trying to do me over on this one, and doesn't have a genuine complaint.



Wow.

I would let her know that I was aware that she approached someone about removing the watermark so they could be printed.

I would get a statement from my friend to that effect, and I would have it notarized.

I would then tell her to go piss up a rope. There would be no refund, and there would be no reshoot. 

Period.


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## bhop (Jan 8, 2014)

Just show her Jill Greenberg's work and tell her it's the look you were going for.

The Reel Foto: Jill Greenberg: Cry Baby


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## manaheim (Jan 8, 2014)

I honestly think the best advice here is to just walk away from this.

I think you've done more than you needed to, and certainly far more than I would have done.

I do think you made a couple mistakes... one, not adhering to the letter of your contract. If you don't take your contract seriously, then neither will your customers.  Two... not walking out when things were obviously going wrong.  You'd have been better off saying "This isn't going to work, we need to do this another time, I'll waive my reshoot fee [or whatever] because I completely understand". Three, you should never have EVER tried to edit those pictures to the degree you did.

 But so what. We all make mistakes. I've made almost every single one of the mistakes that you just went through. I only did them once, though.  Live and learn.

Right now, this is no-win.  Adhere to your contract.  Give her a refund, remind her (in writing and COMPLETELY nicely and professionally) that your pictures are not to be used, and walk away. The lessons you learned here are worth a lot more than the money anyway.

Don't go get lawyers or anything crazy like that. You're just going to incense this woman and have her blasting you as a monster everywhere she goes. It's just not worth the hassle.  Even if she winds up using your pictures... meh... who cares.  It's just not worth fighting over it.


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## Light Guru (Jan 8, 2014)

WOW Rickroll you ignored so many red flags before, during and after the shoot. Without a doubt a much of the issue was caused by you not stopping things during the shoot. 

That said, the lady is NUTS. Mail her a refund check and walk away.


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## Aakajx (Jan 9, 2014)

I agree with jerry. Don't  put the photos online until after. You will have people scamming the money out of you and they've got their pictures already. 

I would leave it and if she complains tell her you can re shoot it. I wouldn't give her the money back. Maybe next shoot don't do it at her place. And get some funny toys or a squeaker toy. Something to distract the kids. Or talk and joke to them first. Show them the camera and the photos your taking. Get them interested.

hope all end we'll and you don't get anymore drama from it all,


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## daarksun (Jan 10, 2014)

No refund. Reshoot at your studio only. Do when you want at your availability, not hers. Give in to nothing.  Set up a video camera, show it to her and explain in front of the camera that if she cannot control her children during this attempt, the photo shoot is over immediately. There will be no refund, no further attempts will be made to get the photos she needs. The video will be posted on your website. If necessary, it will be used in court if she attempts to bad mouth your service again. If she agrees, try the shoot - otherwise tell her to forget it. 

Next time something like this happens, stop immediately, return the money an get out of dodge.


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## jamesbjenkins (Jan 10, 2014)

Given the info you've shared, my response would be to have a final conversation to her where you explain your position, and the areas where she has committed pretty serious ethical violations. I'd make it very clear that any bad-mouthing she attempts to do will be documented and she will be taken to court.

(obviously, you're not actually going to do that, but for most people just the genuine threat is enough to get them to bugger off).

As for a refund, or a reshoot? No. She cost herself the potential of those kind considerations when she was a b***h with you.


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## Vautrin (Jan 15, 2014)

First off, how high quality were the proofs you sent her?  I understand you sent her proofs, but maybe next time make sure you're not sending high-res jpgs she can use to print.  Or use a site like Zenfolio where she can see but not download the pictures.

Second off lawyers are very, very expensive.  Probably they can be helpful, but will it be worth the cost?  And if she lawyers up as well, and you end up with a legal fight on your hands, well, are you prepared to pay thousands of dollars in legal fees?

Third, most of what other people said is true.  Sometimes customers just aren't worth the hassle.


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