# a65 vs 77 auto focus worth another 500$ plus?



## smilesyota

Is the auto focus worth the extra money on the a77 and what else might make it worth it?  I'm a begginer and want to shoot nature, my fast moving dog and sports ie auto and otherwise.  Advise would be great as I will be purchasing this week, i think.


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## Jan Matis

it's not just autofocus (well I hope you mean focus points because to my knowledge there is no other difference than amount of focus points ) 

for me it was size of the body, af micro adjustement, screen and the kit lens. and it was worth every penny.


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## Kolia

The a77 kit has a much better lens.


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## smilesyota

the 65 has 15 points 3 cross type and the 77 has 19 with 9 or 11 cross type i think.  Will this make a huge difference?  will the 77 be much faster to focus and work better in low light? I can get a 65 for 825$ and the 77 is much more expensive!


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## Kolia

The a77 also has the weather resistant magnesium body with twin selection dials for speed and aperture. And 12 FPS vs the 10 o the a65. 

I think those would be more important in your choice.


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## Jan Matis

smilesyota said:


> the 65 has 15 points 3 cross type and the 77 has 19 with 9 or 11 cross type i think.  Will this make a huge difference?  will the 77 be much faster to focus and work better in low light? I can get a 65 for 825$ and the 77 is much more expensive!




That is something only you can answer as it depends on your style. I for example use only one focus point to autofocus (AF area set to local ) and it is usually the central one. ( autofocus,recompose,and fine tune focus with DMF with peaking level set to mid)


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## Jan Matis

Kolia said:


> selection dials for speed and aperture.



I could not agree more. I can not live without 2 selection dials.


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## Kolia

Although the a65 can control both aperture and speed with its single control dial. You just press and hold a button with your thumb and the function switches to the other mode. 

Not as straight forward as two dials, but it's still there.


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## smilesyota

Cant seem to find any A77's in stock anywhere.  I think I might just get the 65 and buy another lens with the extra money. has anyone tried the 30mm 2.8 prime? or the 35mm 1.8?


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## Kolia

smilesyota said:
			
		

> Cant seem to find any A77's in stock anywhere.  I think I might just get the 65 and buy another lens with the extra money. has anyone tried the 30mm 2.8 prime? or the 35mm 1.8?



With the mount of money saved, I'd aim much higher than the entry level primes. Between the two, I recommend choosing the. 35mm f1.8. This will give you a 52mm equivalent which is a very nice length to have. 

I would seriously consider getting the a65 body only and get the 16-50 f2.8 lens that comes with the a77.  It is far superior to the 18-55 kit lens.


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## gsgary

Kolia said:


> The a77 also has the weather resistant magnesium body with twin selection dials for speed and aperture. And 12 FPS vs the 10 o the a65.
> 
> I think those would be more important in your choice.



Only 12fps when shooting on auto which no one seems to point out


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## argieramos

gsgary said:
			
		

> Only 12fps when shooting on auto which no one seems to point out



But can take much better IQ photos than any aps-c Canon camera which you don't like to point out. lol


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## gsgary

argieramos said:


> gsgary said:
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> Only 12fps when shooting on auto which no one seems to point out
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But can take much better IQ photos than any aps-c Canon camera which you don't like to point out. lol
Click to expand...


Because it is not true, i could take a better shot than you with a point and shoot


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## belial

argieramos said:
			
		

> But can take much better IQ photos than any aps-c Canon camera which you don't like to point out. lol



We've pointed out several times how little sensor stats really mean in photography. But you don't seem to understand that.


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## belial

Somehow in argies mind sensor stats top off as the single most important thing. And this just isn't true.


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## cgipson1

argieramos said:


> gsgary said:
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> Only 12fps when shooting on auto which no one seems to point out
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But can take much better IQ photos than any aps-c Canon camera which you don't like to point out. lol
Click to expand...


that is a very questionable FANBOI statement!    ( and I don't even like Canon!)


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## gsgary

argieramos said:


> gsgary said:
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> 
> 
> 
> Only 12fps when shooting on auto which no one seems to point out
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But can take much better IQ photos than any aps-c Canon camera which you don't like to point out. lol
Click to expand...


This shot is from a 4mp camera and i used a 2x extender between camera and lens


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## Kolia

Why are people posting non topic related posts here again ?

Come on guys...


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## smilesyota

We dont need another 33 page waste of space!  I'll never get that wasted  time back from reading that childish thread.


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## gsgary

smilesyota said:


> We dont need another 33 page waste of space!  I'll never get that wasted  time back from reading that childish thread.



Get rid of the Sony shooteres then


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## argieramos

gsgary said:


> argieramos said:
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> gsgary said:
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> Only 12fps when shooting on auto which no one seems to point out
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> 
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> But can take much better IQ photos than any aps-c Canon camera which you don't like to point out. lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This shot is from a 4mp camera and i used a 2x extender between camera and lens
Click to expand...


I have seen that before. But if you used a Sony when you took that shot, the IQ will be a lot better. Canon is using outdated and inferior sensors.Sad but it's true. Canon *best* aps-c couldn't even beat the Sony *worst* mirrorless, the Nex-3 in terms of Image Quality. It's a *proven  fact*!
*http://www.resensor.com/2011/07/nex-3-vs-7d-who-will-win/*
You see how inferior the Canon? You Canon trolls got nerve to attack Sony forum ignoring the fact that Canon makes inferior product. lol


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## argieramos

gsgary said:


> smilesyota said:
> 
> 
> 
> We dont need another 33 page waste of space!  I'll never get that wasted  time back from reading that childish thread.
> 
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> 
> 
> Get rid of the Sony shooteres then
Click to expand...


_Sony are spanking Canon with NEX. Do you attack Sony out of fear that Canon are falling behind or something? lol_


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## argieramos

cgipson1 said:


> argieramos said:
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> gsgary said:
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> Only 12fps when shooting on auto which no one seems to point out
> 
> 
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> 
> But can take much better IQ photos than any aps-c Canon camera which you don't like to point out. lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> that is a very questionable FANBOI statement!    ( and I don't even like Canon!)
Click to expand...


Only a true fanboy will not accept the truth. That is proven. Even the NEX-3 IQ is superior than any aps-c Canon.
7D is good. It's just not as good compare to the camera that they are bashing.


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## gsgary

argieramos said:


> gsgary said:
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> 
> argieramos said:
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> 
> 
> But can take much better IQ photos than any aps-c Canon camera which you don't like to point out. lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This shot is from a 4mp camera and i used a 2x extender between camera and lens
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have seen that before. But if you used a Sony when you took that shot, the IQ will be a lot better. Canon is using outdated and inferior sensors.Sad but it's true. Canon *best* aps-c couldn't even beat the Sony *worst* mirrorless, the Nex-3 in terms of Image Quality. It's a *proven  fact*!
> *NEX 3 vs 7D &#8211; Who will win ? | Resensor - Alex Sierra's Lens and Camera Review*
> You see how inferior the Canon? You Canon trolls got nerve to attack Sony forum ignoring the fact that Canon makes inferior product. lol
Click to expand...



At the time that shot was taken Sony did not have a dslr, i set up a studio night last Thursday and the 1 sony user could not use his camera because non of my triggers would fit his hot shoe  it did not have a sinc port  and then when we tried the only way to fire my studio flash (with pop up flash) he could not see the subject because of the stupid veiwfinder


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## argieramos

gsgary said:


> argieramos said:
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> 
> 
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> 
> gsgary said:
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> 
> 
> This shot is from a 4mp camera and i used a 2x extender between camera and lens
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have seen that before. But if you used a Sony when you took that shot, the IQ will be a lot better. Canon is using outdated and inferior sensors.Sad but it's true. Canon *best* aps-c couldn't even beat the Sony *worst* mirrorless, the Nex-3 in terms of Image Quality. It's a *proven  fact*!
> *NEX 3 vs 7D &#8211; Who will win ? | Resensor - Alex Sierra's Lens and Camera Review*
> You see how inferior the Canon? You Canon trolls got nerve to attack Sony forum ignoring the fact that Canon makes inferior product. lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> At the time that shot was taken Sony did not have a dslr, i set up a studio night last Thursday and the 1 sony user could not use his camera because non of my triggers would fit his hot shoe  it did not have a sinc port  and then when we tried the only way to fire my studio flash (with pop up flash) he could not see the subject because of the stupid veiwfinder
Click to expand...


Sony didn't have DSLR at that time? Okay. But don't talk like you can't shoot something like that in this time. lol
Oh just to let you know, a hotshoe adapter and wireless trigger are cheap. You said he could not see subject? How can that be? It seems like you don't know what you're talking about. lol 
That Sony camera that you are talking about is definitely not the a77. You are comparing an entry level Sony camera again. Try harder Gary. lol

Whatever you say, it will not change anything about the fact that Canon IQ and AF are inferior to Sony.... Hehehehe!!


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## cgipson1

argieramos said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> argieramos said:
> 
> 
> 
> But can take much better IQ photos than any aps-c Canon camera which you don't like to point out. lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that is a very questionable FANBOI statement!    ( and I don't even like Canon!)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only a true fanboy will not accept the truth. That is proven. Even the NEX-3 IQ is superior than any aps-c Canon.
> 7D is good. It's just not as good compare to the camera that they are bashing.
Click to expand...


I don't even shoot Canon.. but I do know that Sony doesn't have anything that any professional would use! That is enough said, for me! (Supposedly better IQ or not! lol!)


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## argieramos

cgipson1 said:


> argieramos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> that is a very questionable FANBOI statement!    ( and I don't even like Canon!)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only a true fanboy will not accept the truth. That is proven. Even the NEX-3 IQ is superior than any aps-c Canon.
> 7D is good. It's just not as good compare to the camera that they are bashing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't even shoot Canon.. but I do know that Sony doesn't have anything that any professional would use! That is enough said, for me! (Supposedly better IQ or not! lol!)
Click to expand...


Then you don't know what a real pro means my friend 
But the funny thing is, these camera that you said a pro wouldn't use works better than Canon that some Pro are using. lol

This guy is a Pro


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## mjhoward

please... PLEASE... somebody ban this clown!  It never ends with the A77 this, the A77 that.  It doesn't matter what the topic is, if argiermos enters the conversation, it is always steered in the direction of A77 is better, shoulda used an A77, my A77 can do my dishes and your camera takes sh** photos, etc.  The exact same agenda with the exact same cited 'facts' is dragged along wherever he appears.  It's ridiculous.


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## argieramos

mjhoward said:
			
		

> please... PLEASE... somebody ban this clown!  It never ends with the A77 this, the A77 that.  It doesn't matter what the topic is, if argiermos enters the conversation, it is always steered in the direction of A77 is better, shoulda used an A77, my A77 can do my dishes and your camera takes sh** photos, etc.  The exact same agenda with the exact same cited 'facts' is dragged along wherever he appears.  It's ridiculous.



If you guys stop attacking Sony in Sony forum, this thing wouldn't happen. Stop crying like a li'l boy howard. lol
I did try to have a friendly conversation, but you guys keep attacking.


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## argieramos

belial said:
			
		

> We've pointed out several times how little sensor stats really mean in photography. But you don't seem to understand that.



That's like saying how little lens optical quality stats really mean in photography. Better lens is always better. Same as the sensor.


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## Derrel

argieramos said:
			
		

> Canon is using outdated and inferior sensors.Sad but it's true. Canon *best* aps-c couldn't even beat the Sony *worst* mirrorless, the Nex-3 in terms of Image Quality. It's a *proven  fact*!
> *NEX 3 vs 7D  Who will win ? | Resensor - Alex Sierra's Lens and Camera Review*
> You see how inferior the Canon?



Yes, you are right: I went to your link and looked at ALL the sample photos. Fascinating shots of a AA battery, the side of a box of playing cards, and the side of a tube of Superglue!!!! It appears that the Sony NEX3 beats the Canon 7D at 200,800,and 1600 ISO, by a whisker, in terms of visible noise performace at those ISO settings. At 3200 ISO the Canon pulls ahead. It would be great if the guy doing this rinky-dink test had been able to get ACCURATE FOCUS on the Canon, but he managed to mess that up. So, with the Canon 7D a slight bit OOF, the Sony NEX3 appears to beat the Canon by 5 to 10 percent. So yeah, you are right, the Sony has perhaps a 10% advantage over the Canon 7D when the Canon is shot slightly out of focus, and is not re-focused through entire sequences. Great examples!!!


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## Kolia

Smilesyota, did you find an a77 in stock somewhere ?


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## cgipson1

Derrel said:


> argieramos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Canon is using outdated and inferior sensors.Sad but it's true. Canon *best* aps-c couldn't even beat the Sony *worst* mirrorless, the Nex-3 in terms of Image Quality. It's a *proven  fact*!
> *NEX 3 vs 7D &#8211; Who will win ? | Resensor - Alex Sierra's Lens and Camera Review*
> You see how inferior the Canon?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, you are right: I went to your link and looked at ALL the sample photos. Fascinating shots of a AA battery, the side of a box of playing cards, and the side of a tube of Superglue!!!! It appears that the Sony NEX3 beats the Canon 7D at 200,800,and 1600 ISO, by a whisker, in terms of visible noise performace at those ISO settings. At 3200 ISO the Canon pulls ahead. It would be great if the guy doing this rinky-dink test had been able to get ACCURATE FOCUS on the Canon, but he managed to mess that up. So, with the Canon 7D a slight bit OOF, the Sony NEX3 appears to beat the Canon by 5 to 10 percent. So yeah, you are right, the Sony has perhaps a 10% advantage over the Canon 7D when the Canon is shot slightly out of focus, and is not re-focused through entire sequences. Great examples!!!
Click to expand...


Amazing what some people will do to justify an opinion (or WISH)!  lol!


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## smilesyota

No cant find one.  waiting to see what happens.  making due with my XSi rebel...


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## argieramos

Derrel said:
			
		

> Yes, you are right: I went to your link and looked at ALL the sample photos. Fascinating shots of a AA battery, the side of a box of playing cards, and the side of a tube of Superglue!!!! It appears that the Sony NEX3 beats the Canon 7D at 200,800,and 1600 ISO, by a whisker, in terms of visible noise performace at those ISO settings. At 3200 ISO the Canon pulls ahead. It would be great if the guy doing this rinky-dink test had been able to get ACCURATE FOCUS on the Canon, but he managed to mess that up. So, with the Canon 7D a slight bit OOF, the Sony NEX3 appears to beat the Canon by 5 to 10 percent. So yeah, you are right, the Sony has perhaps a 10% advantage over the Canon 7D when the Canon is shot slightly out of focus, and is not re-focused through entire sequences. Great examples!!!



I never said anything about the noise performance. The guy even said that the 7d has slight edge on that. The NEX-3 just look way better overall, it's funny how make excuse that the tester didn't do the proper focusing on the 7D. Result from his test; http://www.resensor.com/2011/07/nex-3-vs-7d-who-will-win/

DPreview
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/studiocompare.asp#baseDir=%2Freviews_data&cameraDataSubdir=boxshot&indexFileName=boxshotindex.xml&presetsFileName=boxshotpresets.xml&showDescriptions=false&headerTitle=Studio%20scene&headerSubTitle=Standard%20studio%20scene%20comparison&masterCamera=canon_eos7d&masterSample=canon7d_nrstand_iso1600&slotsCount=4&slot0Camera=canon_eos7d&slot0Sample=canon7d_nrstand_iso1600&slot0DisableCameraSelection=true&slot0DisableSampleSelection=true&slot0LinkWithMaster=true&slot1Camera=sony_nex3&slot1Sample=nex3_nra_iso1600&x=0.1870532242724575&y=0.012879335046294507

Results are the same. Are you gonna tell me that DPreview also didn't focus properly? lol

In DXoMark, Nex-3 is also superior.. Not that much, but still superior.
The NEX-3 just better in IQ and that's a proven fact.


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## argieramos

cgipson1 said:
			
		

> Amazing what some people will do to justify an opinion (or WISH)!  lol!



yea, just like you. lol


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## belial

argieramos said:
			
		

> That's like saying how little lens optical quality stats really mean in photography. Better lens is always better. Same as the sensor.



The lens has a lot more influence than the sensor.


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## argieramos

belial said:


> argieramos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's like saying how little lens optical quality stats really mean in photography. Better lens is always better. Same as the sensor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The lens has a lot more influence than the sensor.
Click to expand...


NEX 3 vs 7D &#8211; Who will win ? | Resensor - Alex Sierra's Lens and Camera Review

Same lens, big difference...


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## belial

argieramos said:
			
		

> NEX 3 vs 7D &ndash; Who will win ? | Resensor - Alex Sierra's Lens and Camera Review
> 
> Same lens, big difference...


Argie. Why the hell would I care if one camera looks slightly better at 100% crop? That's my whole point. People make way too big a deal of it.


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## cgipson1

argieramos said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amazing what some people will do to justify an opinion (or WISH)!  lol!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yea, just like you. lol
Click to expand...


Argie,

your responses are infantile, childish and immature (yes.. I am heavily emphasizing that aspect, aren't I?). You carefully select what "reviews" you try to use to back up your statements (and you only use very biased reviews!). You respond to facts with incoherent rhetoric, and make very little sense. I think you may have a faint clue as to what LOGIC is, but have no idea how to apply it to your thinking! I suspect you are very young, and very inexperienced. I hope you grow up someday, and actually develop some intelligence, so that you can debate in a meaningful manner!

I wish you luck.. but for now, you are going on my IGNORE list where I put the rest of the childish, immature trolls!


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## Kolia

Nobody who feed these senseless flaming wars well beyond the scope of the original post can claim to any sort of maturity...


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## cgipson1

Kolia said:


> Nobody who feed these senseless flaming wars well beyond the scope of the original post can claim to any sort of maturity...



funny! You just fed it too, didn't you? I see SONY in your sig... I will IGNORE you too!


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## argieramos

cgipson1 said:


> argieramos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amazing what some people will do to justify an opinion (or WISH)!  lol!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yea, just like you. lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Argie,
> 
> your responses are infantile, childish and immature (yes.. I am heavily emphasizing that aspect, aren't I?). You carefully select what "reviews" you try to use to back up your statements (and you only use very biased reviews!). You respond to facts with incoherent rhetoric, and make very little sense. I think you may have a faint clue as to what LOGIC is, but have no idea how to apply it to your thinking! I suspect you are very young, and very inexperienced. I hope you grow up someday, and actually develop some intelligence, so that you can debate in a meaningful manner!
> 
> I wish you luck.. but for now, you are going on my IGNORE list where I put the rest of the childish, immature trolls!
Click to expand...


Ignore me? Who asked you to talk to me anyway?. You wan't to just ignore me now because you can't handle me. I am too smart for you lol


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## argieramos

belial said:


> argieramos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NEX 3 vs 7D &ndash; Who will win ? | Resensor - Alex Sierra's Lens and Camera Review
> 
> Same lens, big difference...
> 
> 
> 
> Argie. Why the hell would I care if one camera looks slightly better at 100% crop? That's my whole point. People make way too big a deal of it.
Click to expand...


Are you blind bro? One of the comparison is not cropped. You didn't see that? lol...


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## belial

argieramos said:
			
		

> Are you blind bro? One of the comparison is not cropped. You didn't see that? lol...



Everyone I saw was 100% view. So one of them isn't. They picked one picture and made it slightly out of focus for the Sony fanboys.


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## argieramos

belial said:
			
		

> Everyone I saw was 100% view. So one of them isn't. They picked one picture and made it slightly out of focus for the Sony fanboys.



You are kidding yourself if you think that was slightly out of focus. The guy is a Canon shooter mind you....


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## belial

argieramos said:
			
		

> You are kidding yourself if you think that was slightly out of focus. The guy is a Canon shooter mind you....



Doesn't mean he knows what He's doing I'm done argie. The second after you trashed on nikon after you claimed to have owned one you proved you're nothing but a troll. You're just here to argue.


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## argieramos

belial said:


> argieramos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are kidding yourself if you think that was slightly out of focus. The guy is a Canon shooter mind you....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't mean he knows what He's doing I'm done argie. The second after you trashed on nikon after you claimed to have owned one you proved you're nothing but a troll. You're just here to argue.
Click to expand...


I am not here to argue. It's just that you, Tyler, and Nikon_Josh are here talk trash. I have proven all my claim with evidence. 7D IQ is inferior to the NEX-3. DXoMark, Imaging Resource, Resensor, DPReview, and any other site proved that. Just accept that and move on. Let's end this argument and we can all be firends. How's that belial?


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## jfrabat

Guys (argieramos and belial), I think it is clear that neither is going to convince the other; why not leave the discussion at that so that we can get back to the original topic?  Or better yet, start a separate thread about which camera is better...

To the OP, if you are a beginer, I would go with the A65 and spend the difference on good glass.  The recomendation to get the kit lens of the A77 is not a bad idea; that's a pretty good lens.  I use my A77 with the Zeiss 16-80, and love the results, but I started with the A380, so this is my second camera (I bought the Zeiss lens for that camera originally).  

Now, if you are REALLY serious about shooting photography, Outdoor Photographer did a piece on the best gear from each manufacturer for outdoor and nature photography.  In case of Sony, it was the A77, the Zeiss lens I mentioned above, the 70-200 f2.8 G lens (but that is PRICEY!), and some other one, which I dont remember which one it was (I am pretty sure it was a wide angle, bu cant remember which).  Hope that helps!


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