# Fun with space and time:  Widelux F6



## ksmattfish

I got my Widelux F6 repaired just in time for a trip to Colorado.

Here's a pic of Maisy riding the carousel at the Denver Zoo.  I'll post some more Widelux pics here soon.







camera:  Widelux F6
film:  Tri-X 400
1/125th @ f/8 handheld
scanned from neg (no crop, this is the entire neg)


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## vonnagy

I love the angle! usually i am quick the stickler about 'straight horizons' but only recently i realised that tilting really can give the photo a sense of motion, like it does here. The fact that its panoramic really accentuates that. 

The widelux, what size of negative does that use? Is it hard to find film for this? Are these cameras vintage? Is this a rangefinder or slr camera?


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## terri

Awesome.   The angle was an inspired move.   Gives it a whole different feel than "family vacation shot".   _Love it_!!!


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## ksmattfish

vonnagy said:
			
		

> The widelux, what size of negative does that use? Is it hard to find film for this? Are these cameras vintage? Is this a rangefinder or slr camera?



The negative is 6cm on 35mm film, so it's like a pano crop from MF.  It uses regular 35mm film.  

The model I have, the F6, is probably from the 60's.  The latest model, the F8, you can still occasionally find new.  There is very little difference between the models.  The factory that made them burned down in the late 90's, so supposedly no more will be made.  

The camera is fixed focus, meaning you cannot adjust the focus, it's set on the hyperfocal distance for f/2.8 with a 26mm lens.  At f/11 I am just a little soft if I hold the camera out at arms length, so probably everything from 3' to infinity is in focus at f/11.

It is not a SLR or RF.  It is a swing lens panoramic camera.  The lens is in a turrent that actually moves as it's taking the picture.  Beside the wide angle given by the swinging lens, the lens itself is only 26mm, so it is really wide; anything you are pointing at is going to be in the pic.  Check out the "Cameras" section on my website for a pic of the camera, and more info, and a few older pics I took (before it broke), and some of the new ones from just recently.

A weird bit of trivia, the actor Jeff Bridges loves his Widelux F8, and uses it to shoot BW shots backstage at his movies.  Search for his site to see his Widelux pics.

There are several companies that have made swing lens pano cameras over the last 4 decades besides Panon, the maker of the Widelux, which is a fully mechanical, Japanese camera.  The Russians make the Horizont, and the more recent Horizon.  And Noblex (I don't remember where they are located in the world, Germany?).  All 3 companies also make/made medium format versions that take 6cmx12cm or 6cmx17cm frames.

Check out the "pano" threads in the "Themes' section here on this forum to see some shots done with a Horizont.  I can't remember who did them (PT Baily or one of the other vintage camera nuts like myself).


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## craig

You had to throw in the not cropped thing didn't you. I second the motion of the tilted perspective. I get a "Twilight Zone" feel where reality may be blurred. As you know, the Widelux's are on the list of the tools that digital can not touch (yet?).


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## ksmattfish

craig said:
			
		

> You had to throw in the not cropped thing didn't you. I second the motion of the tilted perspective. I get a "Twilight Zone" feel where reality may be blurred. As you know, the Widelux's are on the list of the tools that digital can not touch (yet?).



Since they started offering in-camera pano cropping on most 35mm I do want to make sure everyone knows I've got a big 6cm neg, instead of one of those puny 35mm frame center crops.     

There are rotating digital pano cameras, which would be similar.  I don't know much about building digital cameras, but it seems to me that it should be easy to build a digital swing lens pano camera, except not being constrained to using roll film, I think it would be a lot smaller, and I'd imagine that they'd end up making it a full 360 degree rotation, because it would be just as easy (the sensor could travel with the lens, while the film has to sit still), and if you only wanted 140 degrees you'd crop later.  The Widelus may just be a niche design that was born with film, and stays there do to lack of interest (why buy a 140 degree digi pano, when you can get 360 degrees, and crop however you want).

By the way, I also have a panoramic camera that uses 35mm film and takes a 480+ degree (yeah, 1 and 1/3rd times around     ) pano.  I'd forgot about it until this conversation.  In the past I had no way of making enlargements (the image is about 8" or 10" long on a 35mm film strip), but now I have a neg scanner.  I'll be breaking it out tonight!!!  It's called a Corales 360, and I think it's the prototype of the Spinshot, or is it Roundshot?


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## craig

Pano shots are fascinating to me. I am intrigued by the info that you provided. Certainly reminded of wide shots from Atlantic City, New Jersey during the 20's. 

The crop is important to me. I am a little jealous, so I had to give you a hard time. Good luck setting up the scanner. Will it scan a long neg? Remember "take your time".The digital idea seems brilliant. I have to admit that I have only a basic idea of how digi is recorded.


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## ksmattfish

craig said:
			
		

> Good luck setting up the scanner. Will it scan a long neg?



The Microtek i900 scanner comes with standard 35mm, 6cm, and 4x5 neg holders and glass sheet holder that handles negs/transparencies larger than 4x5.  

I love pano's too.  Go to the Library of Congress site and look up their archive of vintage panoramic photography "Taking the Long View".  It's huge and stunning!!! 

http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/pnhtml/pnhome.html

For me the most difficult thing about true wide view panoramic photography is dealing with the lighting on bright, sunny days.  Contrast and exposure can change radically from one side of the image to the other depending on wherr the sun is.  The top-o-the-line Nobles swing lens cameras are run by an electric motor, and there is a light meter modual that adjusts rotational speed to deal with this.  

Some day I'd love to own a working Cikut camera, which is the camera used to take many of the photos at the LOC site.  They are large cameras that use huge rolls of film and swing on a special tripod head.  They come in different sizes.  I think some folks are locating (or having custom cut) the film, and others have figured out ways to use 220 size film in the smaller models.  When you see the big group photos in antique stores they are usually taken with a Cirkut camera, and it's a contact print!  That's a big neg!!!


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## ksmattfish

Michelle over Estes Park, CO






Widelux F6
Arista Pro 125 (35mm)
1/125th @ f/11
orange filter, hand held

 :shock:   I just noticed that if you look in the lower left corner you can see the tip of my shoe!


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## Digital Matt

Great photos Matt   I may have to look into getting one of these cameras.  What is the going price for a used one?  Any idea?


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## markc

Great shot! I love panos too.

BTW, there's also a Widelux 1500 that uses roll film and does 150 degrees. That's one heck of a negative!

Jeff Bridges has a show up at the George Eastman house right now. I missed when he came to speak at the opening, but I plan on seeing it before it comes down in September.

Teru Kuwayama and Michael Ackerman like using Wideluxes too (and cheap toy cameras). I have this shot of Teru's hanging on my wall right now.

A shot of Fugazi by Michael.
There's a Widelux shot on the cover of his book on Benares (largest pic I could find), and several inside. He likes to use slow shutter speeds so that anything moving gets distorted by the swinging lens. Do you play with that at all, Matt? I find the effect rather strange.


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## terri

I'm really digging the composition in the second image.   The clouds seem to be marching in uphill alignment with the distant range.   The eye is almost tricked into thinking the horizon is off until the foreground sets everything right again.   Cool shot.   Ha, if you'd never mentioned the toe I wonder if I'd have noticed it??     How careless of you.     

Great links, MarkC!


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## doxx

this is great stuff. ks - have you ever used one of the russian 
Horizon cameras? I saw one or two on ebay for less than $200...

an *ugly* Widelux is at $475 already  :shock:


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## ksmattfish

markc said:
			
		

> BTW, there's also a Widelux 1500 that uses roll film and does 150 degrees. That's one heck of a negative!



Yeah, that's the 120 version (MF film).


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## ksmattfish

doxx said:
			
		

> this is great stuff. ks - have you ever used one of the russian
> Horizon cameras? I saw one or two on ebay for less than $200...
> 
> an *ugly* Widelux is at $475 already  :shock:



Someone on this forum has one.  I think it's the same for all the Russion/Eastern European cameras; if you can get a good one it works fine, but there are a lot of lemons.  There was a company here in the USA that was rebuilding Russioan cameras, and setting them up with a warranty and everything.  I can't remember the name, and I don't know if they were doing Horizons/Horizonts.

When looking at the Wideluxes try to get a F7 or F8 model.  Or an F6 with shutter speeds of 1/15th, 1/125th, and 1/250th.  There are some very old Widelux F6s that have shutter speeds like 1/10th, 1/50th, and 1/100th.  These are very, very hard to get spare parts for.


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## oriecat

Man I want one!!! :cry:


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## oriecat

A local photo mag had an article on Jeff Bridges and his widelux a couple months ago.

http://www.photomediagroup.com/archive/2004-spring/bridges.html


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## ksmattfish

markc said:
			
		

> use slow shutter speeds so that anything moving gets distorted by the swinging lens. Do you play with that at all, Matt? I find the effect rather strange.



Absolutely!  Check out the pic I posted here...

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9069

One guy is moving with the lens (becoming wider), and the other guy is moving against the lens (becoming thinner).

I've also moved the camera some while the exposure is occuring.

For those who are confused:  although the Widelux has shutter speeds of 1/15th, 1/125th, and 1/250th of a sec, this is actually just to determine correct exposure.  The Widelux doesn't have a shutter like most cameras.  Just a vertical (if the image is horizontal) strip is exposed as the turrent moves across the film. 

At 1/15th the complete time necessary to fully expose the entire image is more than 3 seconds, and at 1/125th it's at least 1 sec.  It is possible for me to trigger the shutter, and then back off and get into the pic on one side of the image.

With the old Cirkut cameras people at one end of the pic would run behind the camera and get into the pic at the other side of the group.  Look at the old pano group photos, and you might find "twins".


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## Jeff Canes

http://www.kievusa.com/ has two models the Horizon 202 for $385 and 202S for $525

I would love one, but I have one Russian camera and that one too many


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## Harpper

ksmattfish said:
			
		

> I just noticed that if you look in the lower left corner you can see the tip of my shoe!


That's what makes the picture for me.  Like terri, I wouldn't have noticed it if you hadn't mentioned it. It doesn't take away from the picture in my opinion. Both shots are really good but I like the second one better even with your foot.  It does seem like many photographers are stuck on the perfectly level horizon habit. Your pictures show that good pictures can be achieved with some tilting and creativity. I also love pano crops too.



			
				markc said:
			
		

> I have this shot of Teru's hanging on my wall right now.


Wow, that's a sweet picture. The blown highlights is also something most photographers try not to do. Just goes to show that rules are meant to be broken.  Thanks for the links Mark.


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## ksmattfish

I don't mind my foot in the pic at all.  The viewfinder doesn't give a very accurate image of what you are going to get.  It's a classic Widelux blooper, and it is pretty small.  I could crop it if I wanted.  

Imagine how you hold a regular camera.  With a Widelux any part of your hand, mostly finger tips, that is on the front of the camera body would show up in the pic, and I've done it a bunch.  It's just part of the widelux weirdness   :shaking:


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