# Sony downgraded to JUNK rating?



## cgipson1

Thoughts?

Fitch downgrades Sony, Panasonic to junk - Nov. 22, 2012

Sony at greater risk than Panasonic in electronics downturn: Fitch - Yahoo! News


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## rexbobcat

Uh oh. I wonder what Nikon will do when Sony goes under. MWAHAHAHA


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## TheFantasticG

Hopefully buy up their CMOS sensor patents.


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## MLeeK

OUCH. If I worked for Sony I think I'd be job hunting before the market is flooded. Too bad because they've really made some improvements in their DSLR's in the last couple years.


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## unpopular

First Contax now Minolta/Alpha? Why is it every time I go with a lens mount, it gets killed off?!


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## Overread

I don't care about their cameras; but I'd be very sorry to see the Playstation lost. Whilst another company could buy up the rights to it it could also easily fall into no use at all if the games publishers/developers simply cut their losses and focused on the WiiU and Xbox consoles (esp considering how many cross platform games there are now it would probably make things cheaper for developers if there was one less name in the market) .


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## Overread

unpopular said:


> First Contax now Minolta/Alpha? Why is it every time I go with a lens mount, it gets killed off?!



DON'T BECOME A CANON PHOTOGRAPHER!


Seriously if you've got a curse we dun want you - go to Nikon (its about time they had a mount change at the very least )


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## cosmonaut

I don't worry to much about things like that. Sony cameras are selling well. The NEX series is growing. I'll panic when they when the time comes. I just don't understand todays market though where a company has to sell millions of units like Apple to turn a profit? I have a D800 so me worry? Not.


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## unpopular

^^ you must be like a billionaire.


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## rexbobcat

Overread said:
			
		

> I don't care about their cameras; but I'd be very sorry to see the Playstation lost. Whilst another company could buy up the rights to it it could also easily fall into no use at all if the games publishers/developers simply cut their losses and focused on the WiiU and Xbox consoles (esp considering how many cross platform games there are now it would probably make things cheaper for developers if there was one less name in the market) .



Oh no....I forgot about the PS 

And they're already a year to maybe 2 away from getting on with the PS4.

There are already tech demos and game engines developed for it. Square-Enix's Luminance Engine had better get to see the light of day damn it!


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## DiskoJoe

^^^

Hes a baller!

It says they need restructuring and do. Its the low demand for tv's causing an issue. Cameras a small time in the electronics market.


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## jamesbjenkins

Yikes. Glad I pulled my investments out of the Asian tech corridor. I used to have a couple mutual funds that were heavy in Sony.


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## cosmonaut

Sony Sells More Than Five Million Digital Cameras With Carl Zeiss Lenses


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## cosmonaut

It's all where you get your news as well.
Sony Drinking Canon and Nikon's Milkshakes in Japan


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## unpopular

rexbobcat said:


> Overread said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't care about their cameras; but I'd be very sorry to see the Playstation lost. Whilst another company could buy up the rights to it it could also easily fall into no use at all if the games publishers/developers simply cut their losses and focused on the WiiU and Xbox consoles (esp considering how many cross platform games there are now it would probably make things cheaper for developers if there was one less name in the market) .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh no....I forgot about the PS
> 
> And they're already a year to maybe 2 away from getting on with the PS4.
> 
> There are already tech demos and game engines developed for it. Square-Enix's Luminance Engine had better get to see the light of day damn it!
Click to expand...


I am not sure what Sony has up it's sleeve. I also read they have three entirely different full frame prototype models under development. I'm wondering if they are going to try to take a stake at establishing a entry-level full frame camera market. They've also applied for a patent on a multilayer sensor (think foveon) with three dimensional photo site topology - permitting larger pixels in the same two dimensional area. Such a sensor could be a huge breakthrough in both SNR and, thus, resolution.

Whatever sony is thinking, this bad financial news doesn't seem to be slowing Sony R&D down at all.


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## Overread

I suspect R&D is always an investment for them that can make its money back - even if they can't make use of the product they can licence or outright sell it to generate some income. Also lets not forget many of these companies like to play the denial game with copyright and patents.


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## manaheim

Burn Sony, Burn.

I can think of no company more deserving.

That said, the loss of competition for the Xbox would be unfortunate (and I'm saying this as an Xbox owner), and obviously Sony makes a lot of products (sensors, batteries) that are in a LOT of things we use today, so that would cause some issues.

Still...

Burn SONY BURN.


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## cosmonaut

I think Sony cameras are doing very well. Nikon and Canon both are losing out on a huge market by slacking in the compact area. Yeah Sony I think is about to have a full frame compact to compete with the Leica M cameras. The Leica clan will go nuts when they have a full frame camera to put their Leica glass on. 
 IMO The a99 is a technical marvel. If you look at how far Sony has come since the release of the a900 it's unreal. They have come a long way in a short time. The last three outing with it I had no post work to do on the final image. The exposure was perfect out of the camera.


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## rexbobcat

manaheim said:
			
		

> Burn Sony, Burn.
> 
> I can think of no company more deserving.
> 
> That said, the loss of competition for the Xbox would be unfortunate (and I'm saying this as an Xbox owner), and obviously Sony makes a lot of products (sensors, batteries) that are in a LOT of things we use today, so that would cause some issues.
> 
> Still...
> 
> Burn SONY BURN.



Having only the Xbox is...terrifying.

Microsoft is like that company who says "hey look guys! I totally created this new thing!"
*coughBingcoughSurface*

When in actuality Apple or Google did it three years earlier 

And better.

Seriously is Windows 8 not the stupidest OS to ever exist?


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## unpopular

rexbobcat said:


> Seriously is Windows 8 not the stupidest OS to ever exist?




what, the whole picture password thing isn't selling it for you?

----


I love how Microsoft is trying to be all hip lately. I guess that "I'm not kewl enough for a mac" campaign didn't work out so well.

imagine that.


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## rexbobcat

unpopular said:
			
		

> what, the whole picture password thing isn't selling it for you?
> 
> ----
> 
> I love how Microsoft is trying to be all hip lately. I guess that "I'm not kewl enough for a mac" campaign didn't work out so well.
> 
> imagine that.



Exactly. It's like Microsoft is that awkward uncle who tries to relate to all of the youngsters but just keeps making bad decisions.

They're taking everything awesome about Windows and assimilating into the pseudo- technology-savvy youth.


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## cgipson1

rexbobcat said:


> Having only the Xbox is...terrifying.
> 
> Microsoft is like that company who says "hey look guys! I totally created this new thing!"
> *coughBingcoughSurface*
> 
> When in actuality Apple or Google did it three years earlier
> 
> And better.
> 
> Seriously is Windows 8 not the stupidest OS to ever exist?



They still have about 84% of the OS market.... and while businesses wont adopt Win 8, it will probably be really popular with a certain segment of home users... the ones that mostly text, email, and surf. Most people will just wait until they give back the standard desktop... or use something like Classic Shell to get rid of the stupid interface that Win 8 has.

Apple might get a small share of users.. as will Linux. But most will stick with MS (especially if MS will get their head our of their A$$)


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## unpopular

well, their new logo certainly isn't inspiring hipness.

It's like something a committee of MBAs would design. I can just see it "you know what's hip? helvetica!" ... "yeah and simple stuff ... like squares" ... "yeah, and business people like us are squares. it's a win-win!"


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## rexbobcat

cgipson1 said:
			
		

> They still have about 84% of the OS market.... and while businesses wont adopt Win 8, it will probably be really popular with a certain segment of home users... the ones that mostly text, email, and surf. Most people will just wait until they give back the standard desktop... or use something like Classic Shell to get rid of the stupid interface that Win 8 has.
> 
> Apple might get a small share of users.. as will Linux. But most will stick with MS (especially if MS will get their head our of their A$$)



But that 84% is coming from Windows 7, which is actually pretty awesome. 

I guess doing what works over and over again is just too "boring" for Microsoft.

I liked Windows because you could actually take the hood off of the OS and look around inside. With iOS it's not as accessible.


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## unpopular

cgipson1 said:


> rexbobcat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Having only the Xbox is...terrifying.
> 
> Microsoft is like that company who says "hey look guys! I totally created this new thing!"
> *coughBingcoughSurface*
> 
> When in actuality Apple or Google did it three years earlier
> 
> And better.
> 
> Seriously is Windows 8 not the stupidest OS to ever exist?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They still have about 84% of the OS market.... and while businesses wont adopt Win 8, it will probably be really popular with a certain segment of home users... the ones that mostly text, email, and surf. Most people will just wait until they give back the standard desktop... or use something like Classic Shell to get rid of the stupid interface that Win 8 has.
> 
> Apple might get a small share of users.. as will Linux. But most will stick with MS (especially if MS will get their head our of their A$$)
Click to expand...


And the spice girls sold millions of albums, too.


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## cgipson1

cosmonaut said:


> I think Sony cameras are doing very well. Nikon and Canon both are losing out on a huge market by slacking in the compact area. Yeah Sony I think is about to have a full frame compact to compete with the Leica M cameras. The Leica clan will go nuts when they have a full frame camera to put their Leica glass on.
> IMO The a99 is a technical marvel. If you look at how far Sony has come since the release of the a900 it's unreal. They have come a long way in a short time. The last three outing with it I had no post work to do on the final image. The exposure was perfect out of the camera.



Too bad they can't stay in business just based on camera sales... right? They used to have a huge share of the TV market, and lost it due to bad decisions, and better products from the competition. Even with cameras, if they concentrate on the non-photographer market (as they seem to do)... that won't get them out of the red. They may sell a body.. maybe a kit lens, but those buyers won't buy much more. That is where the majority of the money is made... sells AFTER the body and kit lens, and that market won't provide those sales.


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## cgipson1

unpopular said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rexbobcat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Having only the Xbox is...terrifying.
> 
> Microsoft is like that company who says "hey look guys! I totally created this new thing!"
> *coughBingcoughSurface*
> 
> When in actuality Apple or Google did it three years earlier
> 
> And better.
> 
> Seriously is Windows 8 not the stupidest OS to ever exist?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They still have about 84% of the OS market.... and while businesses wont adopt Win 8, it will probably be really popular with a certain segment of home users... the ones that mostly text, email, and surf. Most people will just wait until they give back the standard desktop... or use something like Classic Shell to get rid of the stupid interface that Win 8 has.
> 
> Apple might get a small share of users.. as will Linux. But most will stick with MS (especially if MS will get their head our of their A$$)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And the spice girls sold millions of albums, too.
Click to expand...


Hey, some people like the Spice Girls...  I have to admit I don't really consider your post pertinent to the issue.... care to explain your logic?


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## cgipson1

rexbobcat said:


> Seriously is Windows 8 not the stupidest OS to ever exist?



Little Thread jack, huh?


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## rexbobcat

cgipson1 said:
			
		

> Too bad they can't stay in business just based on camera sales... right? They used to have a huge share of the TV market, and lost it due to bad decisions, and better products from the competition. Even with cameras, if they concentrate on the non-photographer market (as they seem to do)... that won't get them out of the red. They may sell a body.. maybe a kit lens, but those buyers won't buy much more. That is where the majority of the money is made... sells AFTER the body and kit lens, and that market won't provide those sales.



What about Canon, who sells a 5D here and there but then totally BANKS on the 10 million grandmas who buy Rebels and never remove the lens lol.


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## cgipson1

rexbobcat said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad they can't stay in business just based on camera sales... right? They used to have a huge share of the TV market, and lost it due to bad decisions, and better products from the competition. Even with cameras, if they concentrate on the non-photographer market (as they seem to do)... that won't get them out of the red. They may sell a body.. maybe a kit lens, but those buyers won't buy much more. That is where the majority of the money is made... sells AFTER the body and kit lens, and that market won't provide those sales.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What about Canon, who sells a 5D here and there but then totally BANKS on the 10 million grandmas who buy Rebels and never remove the lens lol.
Click to expand...


Canon has the market share to do that.. and the rep (as does Nikon). They are considered a real camera, by most people. Almost everyone knows Canon and Nikon... but there are a lot of people that don't even know Sony makes a DSLR. Or at least Canon and Nikon are the first names they think of when they think of a camera... not Sony. There again, market share, and the amount of time they have been around.

Your point above is also a reason I much prefer Nikon!


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## unpopular

cgipson1 said:


> unpopular said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> They still have about 84% of the OS market.... and while businesses wont adopt Win 8, it will probably be really popular with a certain segment of home users... the ones that mostly text, email, and surf. Most people will just wait until they give back the standard desktop... or use something like Classic Shell to get rid of the stupid interface that Win 8 has.
> 
> Apple might get a small share of users.. as will Linux. But most will stick with MS (especially if MS will get their head our of their A$$)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the spice girls sold millions of albums, too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey, some people like the Spice Girls...  I have to admit I don't really consider your post pertinent to the issue.... care to explain your logic?
Click to expand...


I, likewise don't understand why the number of Windows users is pertinent. I read this as an appeal to the populace.


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## unpopular

(BTW - i'd shag Baby Spice, that girl had the booty!)


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## manaheim

rexbobcat said:
			
		

> Having only the Xbox is...terrifying.
> 
> Microsoft is like that company who says "hey look guys! I totally created this new thing!"
> *coughBingcoughSurface*
> 
> When in actuality Apple or Google did it three years earlier
> 
> And better.
> 
> Seriously is Windows 8 not the stupidest OS to ever exist?



Companies that truly innovate are rarely the ones that succeed with their innovation.

Microsoft is very good at taking something someone else created and making it a mainstream success.  You can balk all you like but the Xbox is obviously not only successful but very viable.

I'll be the first to tell you I expected a gaming console based on Windows to be a mess, but it worked brilliiantly.


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## rexbobcat

manaheim said:
			
		

> Companies that truly innovate are rarely the ones that succeed with their innovation.
> 
> Microsoft is very good at taking something someone else created and making it a mainstream success.  You can balk all you like but the Xbox is obviously not only successful but very viable.
> 
> I'll be the first to tell you I expected a gaming console based on Windows to be a mess, but it worked brilliiantly.



Yes but the popularity doesn't necessarily prove that it's one of the best things. Take the MIDI music format. It has been used in EVERYTHING since the 80s. Not because it's awesome, but because it's about the only mainstream file format that is compatible with a lot of other things.

. I've never gone to someone's house who's like "hey dude can I borrow your Sega Dreamcast game" so why would I buy a Dreamcast if obviously nobody else I buying them. Even though they're probably just as good as the Xbox. Lol

I don't like the Xbox because if I wanted to feel like I was using PC I would use a PC. The UI and basic usability is not streamlined enough like the Playstation is for me. Even though it works fine, 

Sooooo anyways.... Thread hijack again lol


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## gsgary

cosmonaut said:
			
		

> I think Sony cameras are doing very well. Nikon and Canon both are losing out on a huge market by slacking in the compact area. Yeah Sony I think is about to have a full frame compact to compete with the Leica M cameras. The Leica clan will go nuts when they have a full to put their Leica glass on.
> IMO The a99 is a technical marvel. If you look at how far Sony has come since the release of the a900 it's unreal. They have come a long way in a short time. The last three outing with it I had no post work to do on the final image. The exposure was perfect out of the camera.



They will never compete with Leica they will never go from Leica to Sony, you can already fit Leica lenses on most mirror less cameras and Nex


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## cgipson1

gsgary said:


> cosmonaut said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think Sony cameras are doing very well. Nikon and Canon both are losing out on a huge market by slacking in the compact area. Yeah Sony I think is about to have a full frame compact to compete with the Leica M cameras. The Leica clan will go nuts when they have a full to put their Leica glass on.
> IMO The a99 is a technical marvel. If you look at how far Sony has come since the release of the a900 it's unreal. They have come a long way in a short time. The last three outing with it I had no post work to do on the final image. The exposure was perfect out of the camera.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They will never compete with Leica they will never go from Leica to Sony, you can already fit Leica lenses on most mirror less cameras and Nex
Click to expand...


I agree! Sony and Leica?? That is like comparing KIA and Ferrari, lol!


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## molested_cow

So what Sony's bust really matters in your consumer choice? What a first world problem!

When the big three were begging for bail out, I didn't hear Americans complain about fewer choices at the dealer's parking lot.


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## rexbobcat

molested_cow said:
			
		

> So what Sony's bust really matters in your consumer choice? What a first world problem!
> 
> When the big three were begging for bail out, I didn't hear Americans complain about fewer choices at the dealer's parking lot.



Ah yes. The old "somebody always has it worse than you" argument.

Too bad we're not all ten years old.


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## 12sndsgood

It seemed sony's tvs were always priced about $100 higher then other tv's and when the majority of people are lookign for tv's there not checking pixel count or quality there going, this one is 50" and its $100 cheaper. same with ps3 when it came out I had a lot of friends jumping ship from the ps2 to the xbox 360 merely on price and this is when the red ring of death was going on. people were willing to take the chance of there system burning up over paying a higher cost. there car audio line started having reliability issues and what do they do. they rename there audio line "xplod"  yeah lets take a reliability issue and put it right into the name of our product.


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## unpopular

rexbobcat said:


> molested_cow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what Sony's bust really matters in your consumer choice? What a first world problem!
> 
> When the big three were begging for bail out, I didn't hear Americans complain about fewer choices at the dealer's parking lot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah yes. The old "somebody always has it worse than you" argument.
> 
> Too bad we're not all ten years old.
Click to expand...


I don't know. He's got a point. What great travesty is it if the price of television sets goes up, or we're forced to choose between LG and Samsung? So we're forced between two crappy, overpriced television sets; we could always go without, you know.


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## rexbobcat

unpopular said:
			
		

> I don't know. He's got a point. What great travesty is it if the price of television sets goes up, or we're forced to choose between LG and Samsung? So we're forced between two crappy, overpriced television sets; we could always go without, you know.



Except that we don't have to?

This is super off-topic but...

I'm sick of the starving children in China bit

I'm not going to apologize for being more well off than someone else, and I'm not going to complain about someone being more well off than me.


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## unpopular

It's not really the "starving children" argument. It's more that we;re making a huge issue out of something that ultimately doesn't matter. Literally nothing Sony does really makes that you and I use on a regular basis makes the world a better place, just a more comfortable one.

Nothing horrible is going to happen if Sony goes out of business. At least from a product availability point-of-view.


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## cosmonaut

Well I think for those, like me, that have film Ms it is an option as the current Leica digital cameras are just to costly to me for what one gets. By the time I can afford one they are obsolete. I am sure no one will ditch their M9s for Sony. But to put my Summicron on a camera that doesn't have a crop factor would be nice. Not that I would only want the Sony full frame for that purpose only just an added treat to be able to do it.


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## skieur

unpopular said:


> ^^ you must be like a billionaire.



Now, you are being silly, which is no surprise.  Irrespective of what/if anything happens to the company, your Sony camera is useful until it becomes obsolete, like any other camera.

skieur


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## panblue

When I go to the supermarket and stare at the wall of TVs, the Sony ones usually stand-out, to me,
as having a better picture than most of the others.

Apple are trumpeted as the great tech innovators; not in the same league as Sony if you consider all things Sony created since the 1970s. There would be no IPod without the Walkman, decades earlier.


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## unpopular

skieur said:


> unpopular said:
> 
> 
> 
> ^^ you must be like a billionaire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, you are being silly, which is no surprise.  Irrespective of what/if anything happens to the company, your Sony camera is useful until it becomes obsolete, like any other camera.
> 
> skieur
Click to expand...


WTF are you going on about old man? I swear you're senile and not making any sense.

I am referring to Cosmos ability to obtain such a wide variety of relatively expensive gear. He seems to be able to pick up all the latest and greatest stuff. It's pretty impressive, really. He must either have some pretty good connections or he's pretty well off.


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## unpopular

oh - and btw skieur - so long as my camera meets my needs, it's not going to be "obsolete", this regardless of what ever toys and gadgets you drool over.


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## cosmonaut

unpopular said:


> skieur said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> unpopular said:
> 
> 
> 
> ^^ you must be like a billionaire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, you are being silly, which is no surprise.  Irrespective of what/if anything happens to the company, your Sony camera is useful until it becomes obsolete, like any other camera.
> 
> skieur
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WTF are you going on about old man? I swear you're senile and not making any sense.
> 
> I am referring to Cosmos ability to obtain such a wide variety of relatively expensive gear. He seems to be able to pick up all the latest and greatest stuff. It's pretty impressive, really. He must either have some pretty good connections or he's pretty well off.
Click to expand...


Years of hard work and long hours. Plus I don't keep cameras long. Well most of them anyway. I have kept the old M6 longer than any, 10 years i think. I also live a modest life style. Some of my friends have fancy Harley's, golf clubs, smart phones and cars. I am not into all of that.
i would imagine I will most likely sell or trade the D800 off soon.


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## CP1

Sony is going through a restructuring phase. They sold off one of their lens making factory (which is why many Sony lenses were discontinued over the past few months) and will continue to try to run "leaner". They also have made it very apparent that they will not be competing seriously in the upper pro sector of photography, focusing on their NEX line and RX-1. Sad, I'm a Sony shooter and I'm likely to go elsewhere now.


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## cosmonaut

CP1 said:


> Sony is going through a restructuring phase. They sold off one of their lens making factory (which is why many Sony lenses were discontinued over the past few months) and will continue to try to run "leaner". They also have made it very apparent that they will not be competing seriously in the upper pro sector of photography, focusing on their NEX line and RX-1. Sad, I'm a Sony shooter and I'm likely to go elsewhere now.




 I never really thought they would ever try to knock Nikon or Canon off of the pedestal but I still enjoy using Sony cameras. I bought the D800 because I was almost certain Sony wouldn't put out another full frame until late 2013. But the a99 surprised me. 
Guitars are the same. You got Fender, Gibson and then the rest. It's not to say other people don't make good products. If you just think about it there are really not that many bad cameras on the market. It just comes down to what bells and whistles you like.


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## unpopular

CP1 said:


> focusing on their NEX line and RX-1. Sad, I'm a Sony shooter and I'm likely to go elsewhere now.



I'd be OK if sony only produced NEX. Honestly, I think it has more potential than SLT. Fast AF is the only thing that needs to be addressed, and I think it can with hybrid phase detection sensors integrated into the imaging sensor. I'm inclined to also wonder if in the long run the idea of "focus" will be replaced by light fields and computational photography.


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## CP1

unpopular said:


> CP1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> focusing on their NEX line and RX-1. Sad, I'm a Sony shooter and I'm likely to go elsewhere now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd be OK if sony only produced NEX. Honestly, I think it has more potential than SLT. Fast AF is the only thing that needs to be addressed, and I think it can with hybrid phase detection sensors integrated into the imaging sensor. I'm inclined to also wonder if in the long run the idea of "focus" will be replaced by light fields and computational photography.
Click to expand...


yeah, things like the Lytro lightfield camera might be hinting at the future of focusing...but that kind of stuff I think needs a lot of fine tuning still. Sony's SLT was a good idea but seems to suffer from noise problems when compared side by side to the competition. Overall they put out good stuff for consumers, but their financial issues and what happens over the next year will likely reinforce the direction they want to take but aren't willing to tell us.


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## unpopular

Sony has always had a difficulty with noise performance, it never really bothered me, I think when you get into the higher ISOs it's a matter of if it looks crappy or if it looks a little less crappy; high ISO never really interested me, and never did, not even when I was shooting film. But 1/3 stop less signal is what it is, and there is no way to get around this.

Lightfield has a LONG way to go yet, definitely. Perhaps even more than 10 years before it's viable as a professional option. But I do think in the long run it's going to be the solution.

Mirrorless also I think is going to be the way of the future, as sensor sizes inevitably increase, SLRs will become so bulky that they won't be appropriate for general photography and photojournalism. I expect we'll see more dynamic hybrid viewfinders.


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## dxqcanada

I hope Sony stays in business ... I don't want to go through another switch to a different lens mount.
I stayed with my Canon MF cameras/lenses through those decades while Nikonians tried to bash us.
Now I have switched over to the Maxxum/Sony and getting bashed by both (Pentax and Olympus shooters just watch from the sidelines).
I use what I got  ... and my TLR's still seem like the best bet.

Some hope: (SR5) Complete change on the Sony Full Frame roadmap! | sonyalpharumors


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## CP1

dxqcanada said:


> I hope Sony stays in business ... I don't want to go through another switch to a different lens mount.
> I stayed with my Canon MF cameras/lenses through those decades while Nikonians tried to bash us.
> Now I have switched over to the Maxxum/Sony and getting bashed by both (Pentax and Olympus shooting just watch from the sidelines).
> I use what I got  ... and my TLR's still seem like the best bet.
> 
> Some hope: (SR5) Complete change on the Sony Full Frame roadmap! | sonyalpharumors



Yeah, that's an interesting roadmap. But there is more to address than just that. Like how Sony doesn't cooperate with software companies like Adobe to give profile support. It's a collective problem that just makes you scream "WHY!!!!!" lol. Really hope they don't keep their customer base waiting too long, some people just can't sit around forever...


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## skieur

unpopular said:


> skieur said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> unpopular said:
> 
> 
> 
> ^^ you must be like a billionaire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, you are being silly, which is no surprise.  Irrespective of what/if anything happens to the company, your Sony camera is useful until it becomes obsolete, like any other camera.
> 
> skieur
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WTF are you going on about old man? I swear you're senile and not making any sense.
> 
> I am referring to Cosmos ability to obtain such a wide variety of relatively expensive gear. He seems to be able to pick up all the latest and greatest stuff. It's pretty impressive, really. He must either have some pretty good connections or he's pretty well off.
Click to expand...


If you had been clear in the first place, you would NOT need to explain what you were referring to.

You are the one who is senile if you expect me to read your mind.:lmao:


skieur


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## nycphotography

MLeeK said:


> OUCH. If I worked for Sony I think I'd be job hunting before the market is flooded. Too bad because they've really made some improvements in their DSLR's in the last couple years.



You mean Minolta's DSLR's? ;-)

FWIW, Sony lost it's way about 10 years ago... they've been trying to sell "apple type branded premium products" but they've failed to deliver on the upscale features or the upscale cool (or both) needed to support the higher prices and overcome their arrogant refusal to integrate with standard stuff.  

It seems Apple out cooled them in computers, Panasonic ate their bread and butter lunch in video, samsung killed them in TV's, Xbox slaughtered playstation, the ipod killed the walkman, and the list goes on and on and on.

Too bad they weren't satisfied creating competitive technology that integrates with other stuff you may own and selling it at competitive prices.

As much as I find Sony products to be useless... I really do wish they could find their way and get back into the game (hopefully making more useful products in the process).


----------



## nycphotography

cgipson1 said:


> rexbobcat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad they can't stay in business just based on camera sales... right? They used to have a huge share of the TV market, and lost it due to bad decisions, and better products from the competition. Even with cameras, if they concentrate on the non-photographer market (as they seem to do)... that won't get them out of the red. They may sell a body.. maybe a kit lens, but those buyers won't buy much more. That is where the majority of the money is made... sells AFTER the body and kit lens, and that market won't provide those sales.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What about Canon, who sells a 5D here and there but then totally BANKS on the 10 million grandmas who buy Rebels and never remove the lens lol.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Canon has the market share to do that.. and the rep (as does Nikon). They are considered a real camera, by most people. Almost everyone knows Canon and Nikon... but there are a lot of people that don't even know Sony makes a DSLR. Or at least Canon and Nikon are the first names they think of when they think of a camera... not Sony. There again, market share, and the amount of time they have been around.
> 
> Your point above is also a reason I much prefer Nikon!
Click to expand...


Sony is a arrogant company, as exemplified by making the mistake of buying their way into the SLR market (Minolta) they then throwing away the valuable brand they had just bought.  So everyone who knows how great Minolta technology was will NEVER give that credit to Sony.  wtf.  

They should have branded them the Minolta Alpha, and made the Sony branding secondary but prominent.  And KEPT the ROKKOR trademark on the lenses.  I know hindsight is 20/20, but with where Sony was trying to go with the VIAO and their "I won't play nice with others" video cameras, I saw this one coming a mile away.


----------



## Patriot

Maybe it's just the Japanese culture. Too much pride to play with others that you see as beneath you in your eyes. If Sony gets rid of its' old leaders and replace them with younger adults that know the new world then maybe things will change. Sony still make great TVs IMO that are better than most. The price for them is what kills it. I have a 60'' Sharp but the 60'' Sony next to it looked much better. I hope Sony can recover from this, it's not good for a company like Microsoft to have no competition. Also as a PS3 owner I would be hurt to lost the system. The Xbox just doesn't do it for me. Microsoft doesn't seem to put much out there for their fans, Sony gave the PlayStation community so much already.


----------



## digital flower

It is still a huge company with the means to turn itself around if it wants to. I don't use their cameras but have owned some pretty solid a/v components from both Sony and Panasonic over the years. I love the Sony TV that I own now.

I think the Japanese economy has to turn around for them to be truly successful. I am pretty sure the downgrade dosen't mean bankruptcy it just means it will be harder/more expensive to raise capitol.


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## skieur

unpopular said:


> Sony has always had a difficulty with noise performance, it never really bothered me, I think when you get into the higher ISOs it's a matter of if it looks crappy or if it looks a little less crappy; high ISO never really interested me, and never did, not even when I was shooting film. But 1/3 stop less signal is what it is, and there is no way to get around this..



Sure there is.  Use a slower shutterspeed, which is possible because there is NO mirror vibration.

skieur


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## 2WheelPhoto

cgipson1 said:


> Thoughts?
> 
> Fitch downgrades Sony, Panasonic to junk - Nov. 22, 2012
> 
> Sony at greater risk than Panasonic in electronics downturn: Fitch - Yahoo! News



Is this surprising to anyone?


----------



## unpopular

skieur said:


> unpopular said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sony has always had a difficulty with noise performance, it never really bothered me, I think when you get into the higher ISOs it's a matter of if it looks crappy or if it looks a little less crappy; high ISO never really interested me, and never did, not even when I was shooting film. But 1/3 stop less signal is what it is, and there is no way to get around this..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure there is.  Use a slower shutterspeed, which is possible because there is NO mirror vibration.
> 
> skieur
Click to expand...


No. Because the compensation is done automatically at analog gain. Increasing shutter speed won't do anything when I'm already at maximum exposure!

And don't preach to me about ETTR, i'm pretty sure at this point I could write the book that topic. Plus MLU works just fine on my a700.


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## skieur

cgipson1 said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cosmonaut said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think Sony cameras are doing very well. Nikon and Canon both are losing out on a huge market by slacking in the compact area. Yeah Sony I think is about to have a full frame compact to compete with the Leica M cameras. The Leica clan will go nuts when they have a full to put their Leica glass on.
> IMO The a99 is a technical marvel. If you look at how far Sony has come since the release of the a900 it's unreal. They have come a long way in a short time. The last three outing with it I had no post work to do on the final image. The exposure was perfect out of the camera.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They will never compete with Leica they will never go from Leica to Sony, you can already fit Leica lenses on most mirror less cameras and Nex
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree! Sony and Leica?? That is like comparing KIA and Ferrari, lol!
Click to expand...


:lmao: Now you have gone over the top!  Put a Zeiss on a Sony camera and a Leica lens on a Panasonic camera and the Sony will come out on top.

skieur


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## cgipson1

skieur said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> 
> They will never compete with Leica they will never go from Leica to Sony, you can already fit Leica lenses on most mirror less cameras and Nex
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree! Sony and Leica?? That is like comparing KIA and Ferrari, lol!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> :lmao: Now you have gone over the top!  Put a Zeiss on a Sony camera and a Leica lens on a Panasonic camera and the Sony will come out on top.
> 
> skieur
Click to expand...


Ok.. now you are comparing KIA to a YUGO!  lol!


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## cgipson1

Thomas560 said:


> I wonder what Nikon will do when Sony goes under. MWAHAHAHA



Buy their chip making plant... or source it out...   what's your point?


----------



## o hey tyler

rexbobcat said:
			
		

> Yes but the popularity doesn't necessarily prove that it's one of the best things. Take the MIDI music format. It has been used in EVERYTHING since the 80s. Not because it's awesome, but because it's about the only mainstream file format that is compatible with a lot of other things.
> 
> . I've never gone to someone's house who's like "hey dude can I borrow your Sega Dreamcast game" so why would I buy a Dreamcast if obviously nobody else I buying them. Even though they're probably just as good as the Xbox. Lol
> 
> I don't like the Xbox because if I wanted to feel like I was using PC I would use a PC. The UI and basic usability is not streamlined enough like the Playstation is for me. Even though it works fine,
> 
> Sooooo anyways.... Thread hijack again lol



REALLY DAVE? REALLY?

You think the UI of the PeeEssTriple is STREAMLINED? Are bath salts legal in Texas? (Rhetorical question, they are) Good lord. 

Yeah bro, have fun playing around on the PS3 dashboard. With its 15 vertically oriented lists with almost no sub menus. 

Yeah real streamlined. Much like a turd is streamlined right to the sewage treatment plant. The PS3s "OS" is like butt mud in visual form.

/rant


----------



## skieur

unpopular said:


> skieur said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> unpopular said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sony has always had a difficulty with noise performance, it never really bothered me, I think when you get into the higher ISOs it's a matter of if it looks crappy or if it looks a little less crappy; high ISO never really interested me, and never did, not even when I was shooting film. But 1/3 stop less signal is what it is, and there is no way to get around this..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure there is.  Use a slower shutterspeed, which is possible because there is NO mirror vibration.
> 
> skieur
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No. Because the compensation is done automatically at analog gain. Increasing shutter speed won't do anything when I'm already at maximum exposure!
> 
> And don't preach to me about ETTR, i'm pretty sure at this point I could write the book that topic. Plus MLU works just fine on my a700.
Click to expand...


So what?  If the compensation is done automatically, then there is no problem.  There is no such thing as "maximum" exposure.  With a DSLR I shot a night scene,  sharp at 1/20 sec. handheld.  The same shot was possible with a SLT at 1/8 of a second. A 1/8 of a second with a DSLR without softness would be a more difficult challenge.

skieur


----------



## skieur

cgipson1 said:


> skieur said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree! Sony and Leica?? That is like comparing KIA and Ferrari, lol!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :lmao: Now you have gone over the top!  Put a Zeiss on a Sony camera and a Leica lens on a Panasonic camera and the Sony will come out on top.
> 
> skieur
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok.. now you are comparing KIA to a YUGO!  lol!
Click to expand...


You can't back up your witicisms, as usual, eh?


skieur


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## rexbobcat

skieur said:
			
		

> So what?  If the compensation is done automatically, then there is no problem.  There is no such thing as "maximum" exposure.  With a DSLR I shot a night scene,  sharp at 1/20 sec. handheld.  The same shot was possible with a SLT at 1/8 of a second. A 1/8 of a second with a DSLR without softness would be a more difficult challenge.
> 
> skieur



There is such thing as mirror lock-up.


----------



## rexbobcat

o hey tyler said:
			
		

> REALLY DAVE? REALLY?
> 
> You think the UI of the PeeEssTriple is STREAMLINED? Are bath salts legal in Texas? (Rhetorical question, they are) Good lord.
> 
> Yeah bro, have fun playing around on the PS3 dashboard. With its 15 vertically oriented lists with almost no sub menus.
> 
> Yeah real streamlined. Much like a turd is streamlined right to the sewage treatment plant. The PS3s "OS" is like butt mud in visual form.
> 
> /rant



The Xbox is also? It has those tiles that you have to scroll through, which is basically the same thing in a different form.

The Xbox has annoying UI because it reminds me of something my thirteen year old cousin would enjoy with the colors everywhere and the large words etc...

I have all of the tiles in the PS3 UI memorized, so it's much easier for me to find a certain option unlike with the Xbox where I have to scroll through the vertical options, then through the horizontal options until I find what I'm looking for.

In my opinion the Xbox is much more cumbersome from an ease-of-use standpoint than the PS3.

I also dislike the Xbox controllers' connectivity.

Playstation reminds me of Apple.
Xbox reminds me of, well, Windows


----------



## unpopular

skieur said:


> There is no such thing as "maximum" exposure[...]



You have *got* to be kidding me. I'm not even going to bother explaining what exposure means to you. Let's just hope Her Majesty the Queen doesn't find out about this.


----------



## o hey tyler

rexbobcat said:
			
		

> The Xbox is also? It has those tiles that you have to scroll through, which is basically the same thing in a different form.
> 
> The Xbox has annoying UI because it reminds me of something my thirteen year old cousin would enjoy with the colors everywhere and the large words etc...
> 
> I have all of the tiles in the PS3 UI memorized, so it's much easier for me to find a certain option unlike with the Xbox where I have to scroll through the vertical options, then through the horizontal options until I find what I'm looking for.
> 
> In my opinion the Xbox is much more cumbersome from an ease-of-use standpoint than the PS3.



The Xbox is divided into categories that are immediately accessible and viewable by hitting the guide button. 

Games and apps, Home, media, and settings. 

The selections on each pane are no more than 8 at a maximum, when only the home menu actually includes 8 items. The rest have 5. There is not a world of space between the selections either. That's what I never got about the PS3... Everything is SO spread out for no apparent reason. 

If the PS3s dashboard relied more on text and less on symbols, included sub menus, and wasn't strictly a page of lists... It might actually be pretty nice. But as it stands there is nothing intuitive about it. You may think that the Xbox has large text, but that's the thing about design, certain important things are larger as they carry more weight on the page. Because they chose a universally accepted medium to communicate in the most effective way, language. Sony chose symbols, which IMO greatly reduces usability for users. If you think about it, your brain reads text when you see it. 

You can change the color of the Xbox Dashboard so that is really a moot point. 

Sony continually has bad design choices in their products. This is also apparent to an extent on their DSLRs.


----------



## skieur

rexbobcat said:


> skieur said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what?  If the compensation is done automatically, then there is no problem.  There is no such thing as "maximum" exposure.  With a DSLR I shot a night scene,  sharp at 1/20 sec. handheld.  The same shot was possible with a SLT at 1/8 of a second. A 1/8 of a second with a DSLR without softness would be a more difficult challenge.
> 
> skieur
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is such thing as mirror lock-up.
Click to expand...


Sure but that requires a tripod, which is not necessary for the low shutterspeed with an SLT.

skieur


----------



## skieur

unpopular said:


> skieur said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no such thing as "maximum" exposure[...]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have *got* to be kidding me. I'm not even going to bother explaining what exposure means to you. Let's just hope Her Majesty the Queen doesn't find out about this.
Click to expand...


Well, I often thought that Steven Harper: our Prime Minister was perhaps a little ........., but a Queen???:lmao:


skieur


----------



## skieur

unpopular said:


> skieur said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> unpopular said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sony has always had a difficulty with noise performance, it never really bothered me, I think when you get into the higher ISOs it's a matter of if it looks crappy or if it looks a little less crappy; high ISO never really interested me, and never did, not even when I was shooting film. But 1/3 stop less signal is what it is, and there is no way to get around this..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure there is.  Use a slower shutterspeed, which is possible because there is NO mirror vibration.
> 
> skieur
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No. Because the compensation is done automatically at analog gain. Increasing shutter speed won't do anything when I'm already at maximum exposure.
Click to expand...


Ah, "slower shutterspeed" means DECREASING shutter speed not "Increasing" it....just so you know.


skieur


----------



## unpopular

when I need someone to go over typos, I'll be sure to give you a call.


----------



## skieur

unpopular said:


> when I need someone to go over typos, I'll be sure to give you a call.



Oh, then your comment about "maximum exposure" was also a typo too"?:lmao:....since there is no such thing.  One can always increase exposure as you should know, even with a limited knowledge of photography.

skieur


----------



## rexbobcat

skieur said:
			
		

> Oh, then your comment about "maximum exposure" was also a typo too"?:lmao:....since there is no such thing.  One can always increase exposure as you should know, even with a limited knowledge of photography.
> 
> skieur



Well...um...heh...technically the maximum exposure could be stated as the point when an image loses all detail and everything goes to 255, 255, 255 white. 

At least that's the way I interpreted it. I mean, if something is already completely white, you can't make it whiter by going from 1/1000 to 1/500 at f/1.2 and 6400 ISO in bright daylight... 

I know this sounds like a smartass response but that may be what he's referring to(?)


----------



## skieur

rexbobcat said:


> skieur said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, then your comment about "maximum exposure" was also a typo too"?:lmao:....since there is no such thing.  One can always increase exposure as you should know, even with a limited knowledge of photography.
> 
> skieur
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well...um...heh...technically the maximum exposure could be stated as the point when an image loses all detail and everything goes to 255, 255, 255 white.
> 
> At least that's the way I interpreted it. I mean, if something is already completely white, you can't make it whiter by going from 1/1000 to 1/500 at f/1.2 and 6400 ISO in bright daylight...
> 
> I know this sounds like a smartass response but that may be what he's referring to(?)
Click to expand...


Well, he was talking about 1/3 stop less light to the Sony sensor on the SLT which he said you cannot get around if you are at "maximum exposure".

That is only meaningful and relevant in a LOW LIGHT situation.

 I cannot imagine "maximum exposure" which would mean a reading that you could NOT adjust beyond a shutter speed of for example several minutes.

skieur


----------

