# Shooting inside without flash



## Trever1t (Aug 22, 2011)

I will be shooting an indoor event soon with the D700/70-200vrII combo without flash. I will have a monopod (yet to purchase) for added stability (vr on or off on a monopod?). I was considering shooting in Manual, setting shutter speed to 1/125 and setting to Auto ISO with a cap at H.3. My Aperture will vary depending on desired DOF. Probably spot metering. 

Playing around the house I can get reasonable quality with these settings but I am open to suggestions from those that have shot in less than ideal lighting with similar equipment.


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## joealcantar (Aug 22, 2011)

I would watch that Auto ISO thing, once you get a decent shot for the most part the light will not change unless you are at a concert etc. , watch the shutter speed as well with that lens , I'm sure it will get heavier as the function goes on. 
-
Shoot well, Joe


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## Trever1t (Aug 22, 2011)

Yeah, thanks Joe. I hope the monopod helps with that weight. It's a beast with the grip.


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## MTVision (Aug 22, 2011)

Pretty sure that on a tripod you turn the VR off. You turn it off because the VR is searching for vibration thus it will have slight shake while on a tripod.


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## kundalini (Aug 22, 2011)

I don't do it, but I'm pretty sure you can set the D700 to a max ISO setting. ISO1600 should be a cakewalk and I wouldn't be bothered to increase it to ISO3200. I would avoid going into H settings at all cost though. It's available but I don't think it it is useful.

Do you not have an external flash? That would make life a bit easier.

With a mono or a tripod, VR should be OFF.


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## Trever1t (Aug 22, 2011)

sure tripod, but a monopod? same?

External flash, yes I have 3 but not permitted during the ceremony.


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## MTVision (Aug 22, 2011)

Leave VR ON on           a monopod. It will correct for the usual vibration on a monopod.....

I looked it up on one of kenrockwell.com lens reviews where he says to turn off for tripod and on for monopod


Sorry - don't know where I got tripod from!! LOL!


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## D-B-J (Aug 22, 2011)

I would also watch the auto ISO thing.


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## Trever1t (Aug 22, 2011)

as in don't use it or limit it a stop lower?


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## IgsEMT (Aug 22, 2011)

W/o knowing MUCH about your situation, I'd say *start with* ISO 2000, 1/80sec, f/4 and readjust from there.

Good Luck


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## kundalini (Aug 22, 2011)

MTVision said:


> Pretty sure that on a tripod you turn the VR off. You turn it off because the VR is searching for vibration thus it will have slight shake while on a tripod.


This is correct.



MTVision said:


> Leave VR ON on a monopod. It will correct for the usual vibration on a monopod.....
> 
> I looked it up on one of kenrockwell.com lens reviews where he says to turn off for tripod and on for monopod
> 
> ...


What is the difference between a monopod and a tripod other than two extra legs?  The VR works the same with a ground of stability. It may not be quite so apparent, but someone tell me I'm thinking wrong.


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## D-B-J (Aug 22, 2011)

Trever1t said:


> as in don't use it or limit it a stop lower?



Well set it somewhere and see how your settings pan out.  When you use it in Aperture priority and auto iso, i'm not sure what the camera prioritizes.  And of course, in some situations you want a higher iso and smaller aperture, and vice versa.  So i'd set it in aperture priority and set an iso first and see what your settings are.


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## KmH (Aug 22, 2011)

From page 20 of the 70-200 VRII user's manual:



> When the camera is mounted on a tripod, set the vibration reduction ON/OFF switch to *OFF.
> *However, it is recommended that the switch be set to *ON *when using the camera on an unsecured tripod head or with monopod.




Any L or H ISO settings are done with software, not the amplifiers on the image sensor, and should be avoided at all cost.


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## Trever1t (Aug 22, 2011)

DBJ I said I was considering shooting in manual with a set shutter speed and controlling my aperture for desired DOF. I can easily limit the Auto ISO to 6400 or less. 

I haven't seen the location yet, shoot is next month but like mentioned it will probably have enough lighting to require less ISO. 

By the way, have you seen the quality you can get at ISO 6400 with the D700? It's amazing


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## Josh66 (Aug 22, 2011)

MTVision said:


> Leave VR ON on           a monopod. It will correct for the usual vibration on a monopod.....
> 
> I looked it up on one of kenrockwell.com lens reviews where he says to turn off for tripod and on for monopod
> 
> ...


Why would you use a monopod that had "unusual vibration"?  Doesn't that defeat the whole reason behind using a monopod...?

IMO - if you need VR/IS on a monopod, you need a better monopod...


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## kundalini (Aug 22, 2011)

kundalini said:


> What is the difference between a monopod and a tripod other than two extra legs? The VR works the same with a ground of stability. It may not be quite so apparent, *but someone tell me I'm thinking wrong*.





KmH said:


> From page 20 of the 70-200 VRII user's manual:
> 
> 
> 
> > However, it is recommended that the switch be set to *ON *when using the camera on an unsecured tripod head or with monopod.




I had to open my big mouth didn't I? :blushing:


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## Trever1t (Aug 22, 2011)

it's all part of the learning experience  


SO, any other feedback, suggestions, experiences to share about low light shooting with D700 or similar?


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## MTVision (Aug 22, 2011)

O|||||||O said:


> MTVision said:
> 
> 
> > Leave VR ON on           a monopod. It will correct for the usual vibration on a monopod.....
> ...




Nikon 18-200mm

What I wrote was a quote from this website...


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## Josh66 (Aug 23, 2011)

Ken Rockwell isn't always the best person to take advice from, lol.  Half of what he says is a joke, and the other half is sometimes questionable.
(He is fun to read though.)

Even though the manual apparently says to leave it on when using a monopod, it still seems wrong to me...  Not necessarily that it wouldn't work, just that it isn't needed.


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## daarksun (Aug 29, 2011)

If the lighting is decent you can play with the iso between 800 to 1600, don't jump to 1600 immediately if you want to minimize the noise. If it's a lot of movement the the shutter speed around 250 or higher. Not sure what the wide open end of your lens is but using a lens that opens to around f2.0 or so makes things soooo much better. With that awesome D700 you don't have to panic about iso settings to get the shot and there is software to work away noise too. 

Get there early and start shooting and sampling the lighting conditions, get your settings for the best shot and where you want to be for the best area during the event. 

As for the "monopod" or tripod. If the action is heavy or tons of movement dump the tri or mono and shoot free hand. If the event lets you set up stationary with set shots then the pod is a definite and use a remote to keep the camera as still as possible.  I usually shoot freehand on any event and up the iso. 

good luck and have fun.


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## pixilstudio (Aug 29, 2011)

auto ISO???? never. take control of your images. and shoot as slow as you are comfortable with


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## Patrice (Aug 30, 2011)

pixilstudio said:


> auto ISO???? never. take control of your images. and shoot as slow as you are comfortable with




I see a lot of responses denigrating some of automatic controls that can be found on modern consumer and professional camera bodies. These are tools to be used. Being 'in control' does not mean always shooting manual, it means learning how your tools work and when to use them appropriately.

There is absolutely nothing wrong in using aperture priority, shutter priority, auto iso or even variable program. All of these have a particular function and operate in very predictable manners, the trick is to learn when and how to use them. Telling all and sundry that 'shooting in manual' is the only way to go is not an indication of greater skill and understanding but of a misunderstanding of the full gamete of the possibilities in controlling the camera.

As for using auto iso with a d700. The camera is near the pinnacle of technology, there is no reason to not make your task a little easier by tapping into its capabilities. The 70-200 VR-II can be used handheld down to about 1/30 sec with care. So, with auto ISO limit the lower shutter speed to what is comfortable, limit iso to a max of 3200 or 6400 (there might be some noise but that is better than no image at all), set shooting iso to about 1600 for d700, shoot in aperture priority to control your depth of field, shoot as wide as possible while having enough dof for the scene, set your high iso noise reduction appropriately, watch your histogram and adjust ec as needed for the first few shots. For any set aperture the d700 will shoot at selected iso and reduce shutter speed until the lower limit is reached at which point it will start to increase iso past the shooting iso. Set your auto exposure increments in 1/3 stops. As long as you have some light to work with the camera will perform. Expend your energy on the creative framing of images and in setting scenes as required. Set the camera up appropriately and let it do its job.

Try it at home a few times to see how it goes.


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## pixilstudio (Aug 30, 2011)

Patrice said:


> pixilstudio said:
> 
> 
> > auto ISO???? never. take control of your images. and shoot as slow as you are comfortable with
> ...



ok let me qualify what i said I use shutter priority and aperture priority but i still dont see a reason for auto iso. choose the appropriate ISO for the situation at hand taking in consideration image quality and then adjust your other variable around the ISO.  and I dont always shoot M  i usually use shutter priority. Back in the day with film ISO was the first consideration and i still believe that is the case today


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## Trever1t (Aug 30, 2011)

Shooting in Auto ISO will allow me to use a selected shutter speed and aperture while maintaining a consistant exposure. Sure I can set my ISO to a constant but then I will need to play with the speed or aperture with slightly variable light.


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## DiskoJoe (Aug 30, 2011)

This should be no problem with the iso capabilities of the d700.


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## bennielou (Aug 30, 2011)

Trever1t said:


> DBJ I said I was considering shooting in manual with a set shutter speed and controlling my aperture for desired DOF. I can easily limit the Auto ISO to 6400 or less.
> 
> I haven't seen the location yet, shoot is next month but like mentioned it will probably have enough lighting to require less ISO.
> 
> By the way, have you seen the quality you can get at ISO 6400 with the D700? It's amazing



6400 is really high.  Are you sure you need that much?


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## Trever1t (Aug 30, 2011)

no but I can just as easily set max ISO to 3200 or any other within the camera's limits. 

I haven't seen the location yet and really have no idea what light conditions I will be faced with, just looking at all my options


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## cnutco (Aug 30, 2011)

What type of event are you shooting?  I have looked, but unless I missed it, I do not see it.


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## Trever1t (Aug 30, 2011)

A wedding ceremony.


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## cnutco (Aug 30, 2011)

I side shoot weddings with no flash during the ceremony.  I do use OCF for the setup shots before and after when OCF is needed.

I shoot weddings in manual with manual OCF when needed.

Your D700 is far more advanced than mine.  You just nead to learn what you and your camera are capable of.


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## TakeTwo66 (Aug 30, 2011)

I've used the same combination (D700 + 70-200mm VRII + monopod + tilt head) to shoot gymnastics at a practice stadium, with half the lights off.  (No flash photography allowed as well).  To freeze motion, I waited for the movement to peak (or where it stops momentarily) - and shot wide open at ISO 5000. I mounted a motor, and shot on high - just to increase the chances of getting sharp keepers.

I was actually pleased to see that the pics were more than acceptable for my purposes (small prints, up to 8x10). I would think twice about going more than 11x14" on these without judicious Photoshop PP though. As it was, the noise was easily corrected even just through Lightroom.

In fact, since I was shooting jpegs, I was more concerned about getting the White Balance right - as the lights were a mix of 'daylight' balanced Mercury and Metal Halides. Skin tones were 'Martian' at  best, and had to custom WB via a white balance cap.

I've also used the same set up at weddings (including the monopod) with an older 80-200 AF-S (no VR) - and was happy to ditch the 'pod when I got the VRII (unwieldy).  

With the 70-200mm VRII, the focusing was much quicker, more accurate -- even in dimmer light. I didn't have to override the focusing at all.  Couple that with the nice high ISO output of the D700 - I think you should do fine.  Again, unless you're making a 12x18 single prints of the ceremony shots, the noise is manageable.  I imagine even with a 12x18 album, your images would be collaged anyway?

If the interior's ambient lighting is bright enough to read (and I guess it will be), then your combo should do fine. Of course, YMMV - and the best bet really is to recon the site before the event just to be sure?

One suggestion though, if you're spending for the monopod + head, you may want to get an Arca-Swiss type QR plate instead of the usual square ones. I found this out the hard way, shooting and moving with the pod attached. The Bogen/Manfrotto square plates that come with tilt head move around too much. Even after tightening the foot down to enough to crimp the cork bed, the foot ultimately moves as it loosens - especially if you pan a lot.

I ended up with a Kirk enterprises Tilt Head and a Kirk lens foot that dovetails into the head clamp. Much more positive.

HTH


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## Mike_E (Aug 30, 2011)

You'll find that limiting your caffeine intake to be of great benefit along with increasing your cardio regimen.

If you have a head on the monopod try having the leg pointing forward of the lens by about 30 degrees and extended so that you can pull the camera down into your forehead putting good pressure on it.  This along with your legs in a moderately wide stance will give you a pretty good foundation for your camera.


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## shaunly (Sep 2, 2011)

I noticed in your signature that you shoot with Canon, this explains why are don't feel the need for auto ISO. Auto ISO is a bit different on Nikon body. 

As for the OP, I'd shoot in manual, slowest speed possible for the situation, desire DOF, and auto iso. I have my auto ISO max set at hi0.3 as well. Just because its there doesn't mean it'll use it. On a monopod, 1/80th should be no problem. Good luck with your shoot.



pixilstudio said:


> Patrice said:
> 
> 
> > pixilstudio said:
> ...


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## Trever1t (Sep 2, 2011)

thanks. I think I'm prepared. Well it's going to be a brutal day with a formal church wedding and reception and after that I have a coming out party at a restaurant to shoot.....it's going to be a physical challenge.


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## Patrice (Sep 3, 2011)

Trever1t said:


> thanks. I think I'm prepared. Well it's going to be a brutal day with a formal church wedding and reception and after that I have a coming out party at a restaurant to shoot.....it's going to be a physical challenge.




Good luck. Just relax a bit, trust your skills, trust your gear and I'm sure it will work out for you.


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## Trever1t (Sep 6, 2011)

Thank you.

Scouted the Church out this afternoon. 5pm. Wedding will be at 1-3pm so hopefully more available light. To get the DOF I'll need with the lighting I'm sure I will need to use 6400. Spot metering on the subjects or at least center-weighted and damn the background highlights.

here's a sample taken with the available lighting high ISO. These are not posted for C&C, just to represent the low light capability of the D700 and what I am facing for lighting. I am open to any tip/tricks of the trade to take advantage of the lighting and gear I'll be shooting with. These are taken with the D700 and 24-70. I've decided I'll be using the 70-200 due to the distance from the subjects. 








This is ISO 6400 pretty much out of the box





Here it is with some noise reduction in LR3 and I must admit I have not really played with those settings before.


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