# Need advise from experienced Canon portrait photographers



## angelusagendi (Aug 21, 2017)

Good day,

I'm looking for some insightful advise from experienced portrait photographers who use Canon cameras.

Currently, I have Canon t5i eos camera (crop sensor camera). I am diving into portrait photography. I already have a lovely Canon 50mm f/1.8 lens that makes nice headshots. However, I find it challenging to do: a) group photo (2-5 people), b) full length photo. For the group photo, my focus often on one person only, and even if I increase f to 4.o I have a similar issue. Secondly, I have a hard time take full body length photos as I have to step out far away, and once I do it somehow the quality image goes down and often focus also is not good. I know that crop fact plays a role in it too because my 50mm probably becomes like 70mm.

I'd like to purchase a new lens where I can do group shots (max 5 people) and continue doing beautiful single shots. Some people advised Tamron 70-200mm, f/1.8, but the reality is (also confirmed by Tamron advisor) that it will bring me to over 110mm. Same for any lens of 85mm...

Could you please advise a good portrait lens to take photos of couples and family, and also do full body length shots, considering I have a crop cam (Canon t5i).

Thank you so much for your advise. It means a lot to me.

Nata


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## photo1x1.com (Aug 21, 2017)

Hi and welcome to the forum. 
I think you need to do a little reading on focal lengths. If the 50mm is too long for you to get group shots and full body portraits, an even longer lens like the 70-200mm will be even worse. You need to look for a 35mm, or maybe a good zoom, like the 24-70mm. Also you need to understand that different focal lengths have different looks. The shorter, the more distortion you will get, especially towards the edges. Some people say 50mm is already too short for a portrait. 

BTW: your camera has a "crop factor" of 1.6x, so you have to multiply that with your focal length to get the full frame equivalent you are talking about. So 50mm will become 80mm and 70mm will become 112mm.

When doing group shots, f4.0 isn´t really that big of a number. Stopping down to f 8.0 would help you get more people in focus.

So all in all, you are quite well set with your 50mm lens. Keep practicing - you will like it sooner or later.


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## angelusagendi (Aug 21, 2017)

photo1x1.com said:


> Hi and welcome to the forum.
> I think you need to do a little reading on focal lengths. If the 50mm is too long for you to get group shots and full body portraits, an even longer lens like the 70-200mm will be even worse. You need to look for a 35mm, or maybe a good zoom, like the 24-70mm. Also you need to understand that different focal lengths have different looks. The shorter, the more distortion you will get, especially towards the edges. Some people say 50mm is already too short for a portrait.
> 
> BTW: your camera has a "crop factor" of 1.6x, so you have to multiply that with your focal length to get the full frame equivalent you are talking about. So 50mm will become 80mm and 70mm will become 112mm.
> ...




THANK YOU, you are so kind.


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## jaomul (Aug 21, 2017)

As said above you need a shorter focal length. I'd recommend a sigma 17-50mm f2.8 OS lens. Its inexpensive for what it is.It will work as a fast standard lens good in low light and you can use it for groups by stopping it down to f5.6 or 8 or even 11, depending on how deep the group is


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## OGsPhotography (Aug 21, 2017)

50 mm should be plenty short to get 5 people in a photo. Step back like 10-15 feet. Go tk certical orientation for full body. Otherwise obviosly you need a shorter lens, which may not be ideal for portraits due to distortion. Wide angles can make for some interesting portraits.


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## Derrel (Aug 21, 2017)

A *field of view calculator* can show the focal lengths AND the picture area's size. At 34.5 feet, on 1.6x APS-C, an 85mm lens has a field of view about 8.47 feet tall; on a Canon full-frame, the same 85mm lens will have that same 8.47 foot tall field of view at 20.0 feet. These FOV calculators can be found on-line.


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## beagle100 (Aug 21, 2017)

angelusagendi said:


> Good day,
> 
> I'm looking for some insightful advise from experienced portrait photographers who use Canon cameras.
> 
> ...



longer is better for portraits
look at the FOV 'field of view' calculators
Or just buy the best portrait lens and stand back    ........  like this portrait photographer
*https://www.flickr.com/photos/desertrose76*


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## angelusagendi (Aug 22, 2017)

jaomul said:


> As said above you need a shorter focal length. I'd recommend a sigma 17-50mm f2.8 OS lens. Its inexpensive for what it is.It will work as a fast standard lens good in low light and you can use it for groups by stopping it down to f5.6 or 8 or even 11, depending on how deep the group is




Thank you for your help. I am curious to understand the following. In comparison to the Sigma lens you suggest, what can you say about Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8 and also Sigma Art 35mm  f/1.4?
When picking from those 3 options, what would be the best choice and why? 
And thank you for your patience and explaining maybe simple things to the beginner.

Nata


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## angelusagendi (Aug 22, 2017)

OGsPhotography said:


> 50 mm should be plenty short to get 5 people in a photo. Step back like 10-15 feet. Go tk certical orientation for full body. Otherwise obviosly you need a shorter lens, which may not be ideal for portraits due to distortion. Wide angles can make for some interesting portraits.



Thank you


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## angelusagendi (Aug 22, 2017)

Derrel said:


> A *field of view calculator* can show the focal lengths AND the picture area's size. At 34.5 feet, on 1.6x APS-C, an 85mm lens has a field of view about 8.47 feet tall; on a Canon full-frame, the same 85mm lens will have that same 8.47 foot tall field of view at 20.0 feet. These FOV calculators can be found on-line.



Thank you, Derrel. I found many a field of view calculators online. I still need to learn how to implement the info I get from that calculator to my practice. I am new to the science of photography. Interesting how many people assume that photography is just having a good eye, and being able to press the button, but it is not the case, of course. Photography is also art married with science


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## angelusagendi (Aug 22, 2017)

beagle100 said:


> angelusagendi said:
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> > Good day,
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Thank you for your reply and for the link. The photos are sooooo beautiful! I love it  I am curious to know the following. Even if I buy the best portrait lens, will matter that I am using not so fancy camera - simple Canon T5I? The photos on that page are shoot by Canon EOS 5D Mark IV. Could you please give me more insight about that so my learning? And do you think I could achieve such beautiful photos with my Canon t5i simply using the best portrait lens and of course playing with light, iso, aperture, etc? I appreciate your help.


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## jaomul (Aug 22, 2017)

angelusagendi said:


> jaomul said:
> 
> 
> > As said above you need a shorter focal length. I'd recommend a sigma 17-50mm f2.8 OS lens. Its inexpensive for what it is.It will work as a fast standard lens good in low light and you can use it for groups by stopping it down to f5.6 or 8 or even 11, depending on how deep the group is
> ...



The sigma 18-35mm lens is f1.8. Generally lenses with smaller f numbers are better (this is a generalisation but it's good enough) because lenses with smaller f numbers have the ability to leave in more light.This sigma lens can leave in a lot of light.....but, it's range is from 18mm to 35mm which is not much for a zoom and these lengths are not ideal for portraits, as wider angles of view tend to not flatter people in photos.

The 35mm f1.4 is a lens with an even smaller f number, so more light, but as it's a prime lens it can't zoom, so it's probably excellent but not very flexible.

The sigma 17-50 f2.8 has a larger f number, so is not quite as good at leaving in the light, but it's range 17-50 is more than the others. You'll probably find for group shots you will try to be as long as possible, probably at 35mm or a little more, for single people shots you'll be at 50mm (again not always, but generally longer focal lengths are better for people shots)

This is why I recommend the 17-50 f2.8, because it's range suits portraits and people shots, f2.8 is pretty good, you have a 50 f1.8 if you need really narrow depth of field, and usually you'd stop down to f5.6 or 8 or 11 anyway for group shots as larger f numbers give you more distance in focus, or a larger depth of field


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## angelusagendi (Aug 22, 2017)

jaomul said:


> angelusagendi said:
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Thank you so much  !


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## KmH (Aug 22, 2017)

For portraiture with a single subject, regardless the camera used, shorter focal lengths start distorting peoples features.
For just 1 person my go to focal length was 200 mm. I rarely used less than 85 mm for focal length
50 mm for portraits often gets recommended in amateur forums because they are relatively inexpensive.

35 mm, even on a full frame camera tends to make peoples nose look bigger than they really are.
With a 50 mm lens the photographer has to be so close many people get real uncomfortable regarding their personal space, let alone how close you would be using a 35 mm lens, not even considering the facial mask distortion.

As group size increases the focal length should get longer if space allows getting far enough away to properly frame the group.


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## vintagesnaps (Aug 22, 2017)

Being a beginner, before you get into more expense it seems like you need to get out and practice and learn more with the camera and lens you have now. Go out and take pictures of, I don't know, flowers and bushes or whatever and use different aperture settings til you figure out how aperture affects how much of a subject or scene is in focus. You seem to have bypassed learning basics - if you learn more and get better at using your camera that should help you be better eventually at photography.


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## zombiesniper (Aug 22, 2017)

Before I could even begin to answer I need a bit of clarification.
You want a wider lens since you can't fit 5 people in so I would have to guess you are shooting indoors. If this is so are you using lights? If you are using lights I am confused why you are at a max of F4. When I shoot with my lights I start at F8.

If you are shooting outside then you can easily move back enough to get in 5 people.

If you are shooting inside with natural light please stop trying to shoot 5 people at once. You need lights or reflectors.


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## angelusagendi (Sep 6, 2017)

zombiesniper said:


> Before I could even begin to answer I need a bit of clarification.
> You want a wider lens since you can't fit 5 people in so I would have to guess you are shooting indoors. If this is so are you using lights? If you are using lights I am confused why you are at a max of F4. When I shoot with my lights I start at F8.
> 
> If you are shooting outside then you can easily move back enough to get in 5 people.
> ...



Hi there, thank you very much for your reply. For now I am shooting portraits outdoors. My challenge is focus. Currently using Canon 50mm f/1.8 lens... Even if I step back, 2 or more people are not all in focus... Even with one, often I step away yet shooting the half or full body, eyes are out of focus. I am not pro, but this focus thing really bothers me... I did try to increase F, yet still having issues sometimes... Any advise is very appreciate...


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## angelusagendi (Sep 6, 2017)

vintagesnaps said:


> Being a beginner, before you get into more expense it seems like you need to get out and practice and learn more with the camera and lens you have now. Go out and take pictures of, I don't know, flowers and bushes or whatever and use different aperture settings til you figure out how aperture affects how much of a subject or scene is in focus. You seem to have bypassed learning basics - if you learn more and get better at using your camera that should help you be better eventually at photography.



You are absolutely right. I am doing it currently. Thank you


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## Derrel (Sep 6, 2017)

Getting the heads physically close together will help! I mean like in a 3- or 2-person shot, if you have their heads almost touching, it can help to get enough depth of field, but you'll likely need to be at f/6.3 or f/7.1 or f/8 if close-in, in order to get everybody in-focus.

Stay away from wide f/stops like f/1.8 or f/2 or f/2.8 or even f/4; stop the lens down (to the higher f-number values, like 8 or higher) when the camera is close to the subjects!


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## angelusagendi (Sep 6, 2017)

Derrel said:


> Getting the heads physically close together will help! I mean lie in a 3- or 2-person shot, if you have their heads almost touching, it can help to get enough depth of field, but you'll likely need to be at f/6.3 or f/7.1 or f/8 if close-in, in order to get everybody in-focus.
> 
> Stay away from wide f/stops like f/1.8 or f/2 or f/2.8 or even f/4; stop the lens down (to the higher f-number values, like 8 or higher) when the camera is close to the subjects!



Dear Derrel,

Thank you. I know that stopping at f/6.3 and up helps to be more focused...However, the light decreases. Then I'd increase ISO, but it would be a bit grainy.. What can you recommend for an outdoor photoshoot when shooting two people to maintain good quality of the picture and nice light, yet be focused on subjects well (without blur issue)? Thank you


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## zombiesniper (Sep 6, 2017)

angelusagendi said:


> My challenge is focus. Currently using Canon 50mm f/1.8 lens... Even if I step back, 2 or more people are not all in focus... Even with one, often I step away yet shooting the half or full body, eyes are out of focus.



This sounds like it could be a combination of couple of problems. 
Just like Derrel has said above. Getting peoples faces as close to the same distance from the camera will greatly improve your chances for them all to be in focus.
The second part can also be broken down in two parts. 
First is your camera settings. Ensuring your focus mode is in one shot and not AI servo. One shot will try until it has achieved focus then it will stop. AI servo will keep trying to achieve focus until the shutter is fired. 
Second is technique. You want to ensure the focus is on the eye. There are again two ways to do this. Use the centre focus point, focus on the eye and then recompose. Or adjust the focus point to be on the eye with the desired composition. I personally use centre and recompose.

Practicing this with  stationary object such as a mannequin head or doll will ensure any missed focus is user error and not model movement.


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## Derrel (Sep 6, 2017)

angelusagendi said:
			
		

> SNIP>>>>However, the light decreases. Then I'd increase ISO, but it would be a bit grainy.. What can you recommend for an outdoor photoshoot when shooting two people to maintain good quality of the picture and nice light, yet be focused on subjects well (without blur issue)? Thank you



I would rather see noise/grain than out-of-focus faces, so I woud say, use camera support (monopod,tripod, or VR, IS, OIS, IBS) to steady the camera and lens, and shoot at slower speeds. OR....augment the light with a large reflector, or use electronic flash of one kind or another (speedlight or monolight-type studio-type flash).

OR....elevate the ISO to a reasonable level for your camera, like say 1,600 or 2,000, and expose fairly generously..
OR....if you have an ISO invariant sensor, shoot at f/6.3 at 1/60 second, and brighten the shots in post software.


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## angelusagendi (Sep 6, 2017)

zombiesniper said:


> angelusagendi said:
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> > My challenge is focus. Currently using Canon 50mm f/1.8 lens... Even if I step back, 2 or more people are not all in focus... Even with one, often I step away yet shooting the half or full body, eyes are out of focus.
> ...



Thank you. Yes, it is set on One Shot.... Yes, today I did an outdoor photoshoot, and it went well, but I lost some great photos due to focus issue. I did try to recompose, yet, not always successful... I know practice will make it better... But the focus problem keeps persisting. 
Also, if my 2 subjects cannot be too close (like head to head), what else can I do to make sure they won't be out of focus. Should I not use my Canon 50mm f/1.8 when shooting 2 subjects? Instead use general Canon 18-55? Thank you!


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## angelusagendi (Sep 6, 2017)

Derrel said:


> angelusagendi said:
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This is quiet helpful. Thank you, Derrel!


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## photo1x1.com (Sep 6, 2017)

angelusagendi said:


> zombiesniper said:
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Let me sum a few things up that have been said to help you better understand what is going on.
Your "problem" is probably called shallow depth of field or shallow depth of focus. The lower your f-stop number is, the shallower the area of focus in your image.
Some people us it to their advantage in portrait photography to have the person(s) sharp and the background as blurred as possible (using f-stops around f1.8 and on other lenses even f1.2). But the chance to miss a shot is there, even if you are very experienced. That´s one of the reasons why professionals usually take more than one shot to make sure to get at least one image that is well focussed.
If you use higher numbers (photographers call that to stop down), the area of focus will become bigger, the background and the people become sharper.
If you still want to use f1.8, you have to place all the faces (actually all the eyes) of your group within the same distance to your camera. Putting them close together as mentioned needs a little more explanation I think. If you have them close together behind one another some would still be out of focus, even if their heads touch.



 
I hope that graphic doesn´t confuse you more than it helps. you don´t have to place the people in a circle. They just need to be within the same distance to your camera.

The focus will be more shallow

The smaller your f-number
The longer your focal length
The closer you are to your subject
There is one more thing though that could get you into troubles. Some lenses have focus issues - front focus or back focus. If you feel like you have done everything right and the eyes (especially when you photograph just one person) are still out of focus, then you could have such a lens. In this case a few cameras have adjustments in their menus, others don´t. If you have one of the latter you have to let it check.
But don´t consider doing that before you are not absolutely sure you´ve got everything else right.


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## angelusagendi (Sep 7, 2017)

photo1x1.com said:


> angelusagendi said:
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Thank you for such a detailed reply.


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## ClickAddict (Sep 7, 2017)

I have and still shoot frequently with the Sigma Art 18-35 F1.8.  It was recommended that the 17-50 gets you a longer range, but since you already have the 50mm f1.8 you wont be missing much in my opinion.  They, (along with a 70-300 for longer stuff) were my go to lenses for about 2 years and I shot mostly portraits.


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## angelusagendi (Sep 7, 2017)

ClickAddict said:


> I have and still shoot frequently with the Sigma Art 18-35 F1.8.  It was recommended that the 17-50 gets you a longer range, but since you already have the 50mm f1.8 you wont be missing much in my opinion.  They, (along with a 70-300 for longer stuff) were my go to lenses for about 2 years and I shot mostly portraits.



Thank you


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## benhasajeep (Sep 9, 2017)

I have a question.  When you have focus issues.  Is there parts of the picture (other people) that are in focus that you did not focus on or intend too?  Many cameras and lens combinations have either front focus or back focus issues.  If your using an aperture that is right on the edge of sharp focus range for your subjects.  If the lens / camera back focuses or front focuses a little.  You will get soft focus.  Of course going to higher aperture will help alleviate this.  But as you have said then you run into high ISO / noise issues.  

I would test your lens / lenses for focus.  There are many tutorials online for testing.  And free targets and such.  No need to buy anything.  Once you know if your getting a little back or front focus.  You can make adjustments to your position even if your camera does not have a focus adjustment option (it may, I just don't know if it does).  That way you can use a tighter aperture and lower ISO setting and get more shots in sharp focus.


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## angelusagendi (Sep 12, 2017)

Thank you so much for your response. I was also wondering if I have some camera focus issues or I simply didn't do setup correctly. 
I usually shoot in Aperture mode and sometimes in Manual mode. Most of the time I use autofocus.
So far my camera set up the the following: ONE SHOT AF. When clicked on Menu. there are 4 options: Face + Tracking, FlexiZone - Multiple, FlexiZone - Single, Quick mode. Not sure what should I select. Usually it is on Face and tracking mode.
Another thing on the menu is Continuous AF and it is set to  "enable".

Currently, I take solo shots of people (meaning 1 person in the picture). Most of my photos are nice, but often I miss great shots. So one eye will be in focus and another not. Or sometimes beard is in focus and eyes are not. When I look into the camera window when taking photos I see red dots (around 3 always) and I try to focus on eyes, of course, yet the dots don't cover eyes. I try to to get closer focusing on eyes and then moving away holding the focus, but often this doesn't work. I am missing technique here. I know it. But I am wondering if my camera is set up wrongly, or there is lens focus issues. I shooting with Canon T5i, lens Canon 50mm F1.8.

I appreciate your help.
Natallia


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## angelusagendi (Sep 18, 2017)

angelusagendi said:


> Thank you so much for your response. I was also wondering if I have some camera focus issues or I simply didn't do setup correctly.
> I usually shoot in Aperture mode and sometimes in Manual mode. Most of the time I use autofocus.
> So far my camera set up the the following: ONE SHOT AF. When clicked on Menu. there are 4 options: Face + Tracking, FlexiZone - Multiple, FlexiZone - Single, Quick mode. Not sure what should I select. Usually it is on Face and tracking mode.
> Another thing on the menu is Continuous AF and it is set to  "enable".
> ...



@benhasajeep Could you please reply to my message  Looking forward to you advise. Thank you.


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## benhasajeep (Sep 18, 2017)

angelusagendi said:


> @benhasajeep Could you please reply to my message  Looking forward to you advise. Thank you.



Sorry didn't reply, but did not get notice you had responded.  Instead of the @Ben you should click the "quote" button, and insert it into your message, or the "reply" button, of the post of the person you want to reply too.  The site then notifies the person there is a message.

Ok, switch to single point AF (one shot af).  There is no need to use multiple AF points if your subject is under your control.  Then chose a focus point on what you want.  Say the eye for portraits.  Now in one shot AF press the shutter down half way (that locks focus),  you can recompose the scene in the frame.  Then push shutter down the rest of the way to take the picture.

Now, if your using a large aperture (small numbers), you will have a narrow depth of field.  So, when you take pictures, make sure your nor the subject moves closer or farther apart after you lock focus.

Also with any given aperture setting.  The closer your are to the subject  the narrower the sharp focus depth is.  The farther your apart the larger the depth of sharp focus.

So, if you focus on an eye for instance.  And the tip of the nose is not sharp (eye is).  You either change to a smaller aperture (larger number) or move back from the subject and refocus.  Or even a combination of the two.


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## jowensphoto (Sep 26, 2017)

In terms of fitting everyone in the frame, don't forget to "build up" in addition to "out." 

That was honestly the only thing I learned when I worked at Retail Studio That Must Not Be Named.


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## angelusagendi (Oct 7, 2017)

benhasajeep said:


> angelusagendi said:
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> > @benhasajeep Could you please reply to my message  Looking forward to you advise. Thank you.
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benhasajeep said:


> angelusagendi said:
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> > @benhasajeep Could you please reply to my message  Looking forward to you advise. Thank you.
> ...


  Thank you for your reply  and for teaching me how to reply Haha  In regards to recomposing, sometimes I try and it is not working somehow. I wish I had someone in Montreal who could mentor me.

I apprecite your help.


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## benhasajeep (Oct 8, 2017)

angelusagendi said:


> benhasajeep said:
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Look up lens focus test online.  And check your lens for front or back focusing.  Basically the tutorials tells you how to set up a target with a bunch of lines and numbers.  And you take a picture of it.  Now, there are many that try to sell you things.  But you don't need to.  Many places online offer a free printable target.  Take a picture of the target and put the results on a monitor.  You can then determine if your camera / lens is focusing correctly, or to the rear (back focusing) or to the front (front focusing).  There are tutorials on youtube as well.  Again don't need to buy anything.


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