# Little Advise For The Future



## smoke665 (May 15, 2017)

Attended my granddaughters graduation from Mizzou at Hearnes Center on campus, a large indoor arena. I guess the school must be on an austerity program because only a fraction of the overhead lights were on and those that were, cast a yellowish glow. Shooting from seating about 30' above the floor. The first is ISO 25600, F/5.6, 1/80 200 mm, with a heavy crop. The WB was sampled from the white program Our Bailey is far left on both images



no-image-available-grid.jpg by William Raber, on Flickr


The second is at ISO 12800, F/4.5, 1/100, 50 mm cropped, but not as much as the first. Again the WB was sampled from the program on the chair behind them.




no-image-available-grid.jpg by William Raber, on Flickr

I knew the lighting would be bad going in, but I didn't anticipate the problem being as bad as it was. Obviously can't do it over, but any suggestions for the future? 2nd granddaughter graduates in 2 yrs, so I have time to practice LOL

I just got started editing these in LR, and will probably take them into PS to do the final editing. Again suggestions?


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## Gary A. (May 15, 2017)

The first seems soft, then second seems spot on. How fast is that 200mm?  If it was F/2.8, that what I would have used and then bring the ISO down.  The second shot is remarkably clean for 25600 and a crop on top of that. 

You got two tears to get a longer lens to reduce the need to crop (or a better seat ).


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## smoke665 (May 15, 2017)

Gary A. said:


> The first seems soft, then second seems spot on. How fast is that 200mm?  If it was F/2.8, that what I would have used and then bring the ISO down.  The second shot is remarkably clean for 25600 and a crop on top of that.
> 
> You got two tears to get a longer lens to reduce the need to crop (or a better seat ).



Part of the softness was movement. Tried using some of the holding methods mentioned in another post to overcome some of the problems I have. The Pentax 50-200 I was using was at it's maximum for both aperture (5.6) and zoom 200mm, so that was likely a contributing factor also.

The second image was at ISO 12800 not 25600, plus I was closer. 

Doubt the seat can be arranged, but I'm always up for new glass. LOL


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## Ysarex (May 15, 2017)

The 2nd photo is a keeper -- you got the shot under adverses conditions. WB is a little yellow in what you've posted here.

Joe


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## Gary A. (May 15, 2017)

smoke665 said:


> Gary A. said:
> 
> 
> > The first seems soft, then second seems spot on. How fast is that 200mm?  If it was F/2.8, that what I would have used and then bring the ISO down.  The second shot is remarkably clean for 25600 and a crop on top of that.
> ...


One would think a big donation to the school would go long way to a front row seat. (But I think new glass would be cheaper and more fun.)


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## smoke665 (May 15, 2017)

@Ysarex Thanks Joe. It seemed like the lights they had on were on low power. There was a terrible yellowish tint.

@Gary A. Closest seat was still a good 20' off the floor. They were running graduations from different schools throughout the day, at multiple locations. Health sciences (her degree) alone had over 500 graduating. Already mentioned what you said about new glass to the wife. Got a big eye roll!


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## fmw (May 15, 2017)

If you shoot raw images, you can adjust the white balance effectively in the computer.  Congratulations to you and your daughter.


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## Gary A. (May 15, 2017)

smoke665 said:


> @Ysarex Thanks Joe. It seemed like the lights they had on were on low power. There was a terrible yellowish tint.
> 
> @Gary A. Closest seat was still a good 20' off the floor. They were running graduations from different schools throughout the day, at multiple locations. Health sciences (her degree) alone had over 500 graduating. Already mentioned what you said about new glass to the wife. Got a big eye roll!


LOL ... okay, it's a uphill battle.  You gots some time.


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## smoke665 (May 15, 2017)

fmw said:


> If you shoot raw images, you can adjust the white balance effectively in the computer.  Congratulations to you and your daughter.



But can't you catch something from raw under cooked files????  I "shoot" manual, I "save" as Raw files to the SD card, unless I need a hurry up JPEG, in which case I'll save as Raw+. In my OP, I mentioned that the WB was adjusted by sampling the white programs. Thank you for looking/commenting and thank you for the congratulations. However, it was my granddaughter, not daughter who graduated. 

@Gary A. I told the wife that "you" had highly recommended I get another new lens. Got a double eye roll on that one!!! LOL


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## fmw (May 15, 2017)

smoke665 said:


> fmw said:
> 
> 
> > If you shoot raw images, you can adjust the white balance effectively in the computer.  Congratulations to you and your daughter.
> ...



Then congratulations to you and your grand daughter.


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## KmH (May 16, 2017)

Be aware that most 'white' paper actually has a distinct and purposeful blue tint.
Which is why a calibrated gray card (equal RGB channel values)works so much better for setting white balance.

Don't leave home without one of these:
GENUINE WhiBal G7 Certified Neutral White Balance Card - Pocket Card (2.1"x3.35")


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## smoke665 (May 16, 2017)

KmH said:


> Be aware that most 'white' paper actually has a distinct and purposeful blue tint.
> Which is why a calibrated gray card (equal RGB channel values)works so much better for setting white balance.
> 
> Don't leave home without one of these:
> GENUINE WhiBal G7 Certified Neutral White Balance Card - Pocket Card (2.1"x3.35")




Based on the quality of the light I'd say that the blue in the paper was mixing with the yellow to make green crud. Had one of these Vello White Balance Card Set for Digital Photography WB-CS B&H in my bag, but my arm wasn't long enough to get it out over the wall, because the light was different  on the floor where she was.  Their gowns were black, and there was a white strip that I also used, but it still needs some more work.


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## Elpistolero (Jun 20, 2017)

I've edited your photo in attempt to correct colors, I've might pushed a bit too much to the red side but I think it is more pleasing to the eye than yellow faces.
Regards,
EP


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## dunfly (Jun 20, 2017)

smoke665 said:


> @Ysarex Thanks Joe. It seemed like the lights they had on were on low power. There was a terrible yellowish tint.
> 
> @Gary A. Closest seat was still a good 20' off the floor. They were running graduations from different schools throughout the day, at multiple locations. Health sciences (her degree) alone had over 500 graduating. Already mentioned what you said about new glass to the wife. Got a big eye roll!



Since it is probably a one off occasion, think about renting a f2.8 lens. You should be able to get one for a week  for about $100.


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## smoke665 (Jun 20, 2017)

Elpistolero said:


> I've edited your photo in attempt to correct color



Thank you, but I've already corrected them in the final. I posted them as they were in the OP to show the problems I had to deal with and looking for suggestions on dealing with these issues in camera for the future.



dunfly said:


> Since it is probably a one off occasio



The saying "never say never" comes to mind. The last time I was in this field house was to cover a speech by Jimmy Carter. Considering my age I might not be here that long in the future. LOL FYI I've already used all the new glass arguments on the wife and she isn't buying it........yet.


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## Braineack (Jun 20, 2017)

Dynamic Range, Tonal Range, and Colors turn to trash at those ISO levels.   I personally wouldn't be bothered by your results -- possibly minor improvements to be made by the user (settings, technique, etc).

Also, I've never had good luck using the picker to adjust my white balance.  Just play with the sliders until you're happy.  I think a little more processing can fix the colors -- or convert to B&W.

i took a few moments playing in polarr:












B&W saves the day:


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## smoke665 (Jun 20, 2017)

@Braineack Sometimes you have to play the cards you're dealt. Not sure why they had the overheads down so low
 Made everything look crappy even in person


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## Braineack (Jun 20, 2017)

yup!  Like I said, I wouldn't be unhappy with these considering.


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## chuasam (Jun 21, 2017)

two choices: just enjoy the moment and pay the photographer hired to take pictures at the ceremony
or get a D5 with a 400mm f/2.8
your choice.


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## smoke665 (Jun 21, 2017)

chuasam said:


> two choices: just enjoy the moment and pay the photographer hired to take pictures at the ceremony
> or get a D5 with a 400mm f/2.8
> your choice.



I'm always up for new glass, maybe I can talk the wife into A Sigma 300mm f/2.8 EX DG?


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## SquarePeg (Jun 21, 2017)

smoke665 said:


> I'm always up for new glass, maybe I can talk the wife into A Sigma 300mm f/2.8 EX DG?



Best part about being divorced.  I only have to talk myself into stuff.


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## smoke665 (Jun 21, 2017)

@SquarePeg "talking her into it" may be a misnomer. A more apt term might be "slipping it by her". She follows the quid pro quo rule on expenditures outside the normal bills. So whatever I get is going to cost me double.


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## jcdeboever (Jun 21, 2017)

Or get an older manual focus lens. Go on Pentax forums and post the question. You did a great job under those conditions.


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## chuasam (Jun 21, 2017)

SquarePeg said:


> smoke665 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm always up for new glass, maybe I can talk the wife into A Sigma 300mm f/2.8 EX DG?
> ...


my GF is the one with the good kit *LOL* we just borrow each others.


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## rosh4u (Jul 4, 2017)

Shooting the raw images by adjusting the white balance of the picture can be helpful. By the way many Congratulations to you and your daughter.


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## smoke665 (Jul 5, 2017)

rosh4u said:


> Shooting the raw images by adjusting the white balance of the picture can be helpful. By the way many Congratulations to you and your daughter.



Thank you. Most everything is either saved to card as Raw or Raw+. The young lady is the oldest of 6 grandchildren.


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## table1349 (Jul 5, 2017)

Can't offer much advise for the situation since they always seem to be different, not just from location to location but from year to year.  All you can do is the best that you can do and trust that next year, or two years as is the case, someone will remember to turn the lights on. 

I can offer you however these words of wisdom:  
_"Never play cards with a man called Doc. 
Never eat at a place called Mom's. 
Never sleep with a woman whose troubles are worse than your own."_


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## benhasajeep (Jul 6, 2017)

smoke665 said:


> @SquarePeg "talking her into it" may be a misnomer. A more apt term might be "slipping it by her". She follows the quid pro quo rule on expenditures outside the normal bills. So whatever I get is going to cost me double.



I have a used Nikon 400mm f/2.8 AF-s coming under this same principle.  First try and hide it (going to be hard).  Second use the excuse my Nikon 300mm f/2.8d was stolen years before we met, just replacing it now (did replace it with a Tamron version).  Third if the first 2 fail, pay the 100% wife duty tax.


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## smoke665 (Jul 6, 2017)

@benhasajeep I've found that if I'm lucky I can order such that the UPS delivery comes on a day when she has to go to the store, doctor, etc. That way I can get days or even weeks before I have to pay up!!!


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## benhasajeep (Jul 6, 2017)

smoke665 said:


> @benhasajeep I've found that if I'm lucky I can order such that the UPS delivery comes on a day when she has to go to the store, doctor, etc. That way I can get days or even weeks before I have to pay up!!!



I happen to be off this week, she just had the 4th off.  UPS and Fedex has been here all week.  And still more today and tomorrow.  

Now I also follow the other rule.  Wive's will no doubt notice there are boxes ready for recycle / trash.  So, what you do is order something they wanted as well.  This week, my wife has a new office chair, and 3 brand new half sheet cake pans are coming.  Also a couple smaller things / packages that she has to open.  So, I also employ diversion tactics as well.


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## smoke665 (Jul 6, 2017)

benhasajeep said:


> So, what you do is order something they wanted as well



Oh wow, like that idea - give a little, get more!!! Outstanding concept.


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## benhasajeep (Jul 7, 2017)

smoke665 said:


> benhasajeep said:
> 
> 
> > So, what you do is order something they wanted as well
> ...



Didn't work.  She saw the lens case within 20 sec of entering the room.  So, diversion and hiding in plain sight didn't work.  

Want to rent out your grand kids?  They might be a better diversion.


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## smoke665 (Jul 8, 2017)

benhasajeep said:


> Didn't work. She saw the lens case within 20 sec of entering the room. So, diversion and hiding in plain sight didn't work.



I've found that ordering two things to be delivered in one package helpful. Since she hardly ever looks at the bills (I pay them) I've found my wife more concerned about the number of packages she receives to those I received. As long as our total package count is the same she's  happy.


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## benhasajeep (Jul 9, 2017)

smoke665 said:


> benhasajeep said:
> 
> 
> > Didn't work. She saw the lens case within 20 sec of entering the room. So, diversion and hiding in plain sight didn't work.
> ...



Those really small packages can be quite expensive.  Especially the ones with the really compressed pure carbon items in them.  

I tried to employ the same tactic of equal number of packages.  The problem is she does photography as well.  And it's hard to hide something as big as a 400.  But I will say she does not know about my af-s 70-200 f/2.8 VR II.    And that's been around for a little while now.  

Eventually she will go, what is that.    And I can honestly answer, Oh, I've had that a long time.


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## smoke665 (Jul 9, 2017)

benhasajeep said:


> Eventually she will go, what is that.  And I can honestly answer, Oh, I've had that a long time.



I have a slight advantage. With age your short term memory goes, so if I can get past 3 days, I can say "I told you about these when they came in", and she can't remember for sure if I did or not!


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