# Buying film in bulk



## Compaq (Feb 8, 2012)

I've been reading several topics about this from a few years back here on TPF, and this is something that I definitely want to start doing. It'll really cut the film costs, which is about 50 NOK per 36 exp bw film, and, even better, it will make the photography more personal. Knowing that I did as much as possible myself in the process of making a photograph is part of why I bought a film camera. Feeling personally responsible for the process, sort of.

So, I'm not too sure about what equipment I need. Here's what I've understood that I need:

- changing bag to do this stuff in. Practical.
- re-usable film cartridges..when I start loading, I might as well load several rolls of film
- some sort of tape to make sure the film is properly attached to the spool...otherwise it might get lose in-camera.. not idea.
- I could get a loader, but I'd like to measure the exposures by arms length, or based on experience... that's something I like  maybe a bit ironic seeing as on the chemistry lab precise measurements are often required..
- a pair of scissors to make the L-shaped end of the film
- a good place to store the bulk film... I suppose I could store it in what it comes in? Probably a bag of some kind?

Can this (press image for more info) 



be used with both ASA-100 and -400 film? And don't worry about no DX coding, I have no use of that. I am quite able to set the film speed and read exposures myself, thank you very much 


Any obvious things I've missed? Maybe someone has any specific tips? 

Thanks anyway!
Anders


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## ann (Feb 9, 2012)

if you are going to use the "arm " method to measure, you don't need a changing bag.  

there is no difference in cartiage for various ISO and the film will come in a light tight container


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## snowbear (Feb 9, 2012)

A loader is a good idea - I got three on ebay for about $20.  I use artist's tape - like masking tape but thicker.  I also use it to label the cartridge.


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## Compaq (Feb 9, 2012)

ann said:
			
		

> if you are going to use the "arm " method to measure, you don't need a changing bag.
> 
> there is no difference in cartiage for various ISO and the film will come in a light tight container



But I don't have a darkroom. Once I've taken a course I can use the photo club's, but I'd rather do this at home...and then I would need a bag, no?


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## tirediron (Feb 9, 2012)

I agree with Ann; use the arm method (42 frames in my case) and don't worry about the loader, they work, but they're a PIA, and the arm method is easier and quicker.  You will need a totally dark room, so it might be something that you wind up having to do in the WC late at night, but with a little practice, it won't take more than 1-2 minutes per cassette.


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## Josh66 (Feb 9, 2012)

Compaq said:


> ann said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, but if you want to measure by arm's lenght, you're going to need a very large changing bag.


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## ann (Feb 9, 2012)

already answered

You don't need a darkroom to bulk load film.


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## Compaq (Feb 9, 2012)

27x30 inches.. That's almost one square meter of work space, would that be sufficient, based on your experiences?


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## tirediron (Feb 9, 2012)

Compaq said:


> 27x30 inches.. That's almost one square meter of work space, would that be sufficient, based on your experiences?


You can use a bag, but really, it's a LOT easier just to have a dark room (Note:  Not necessarily a darkroom, just as long as it's a dark room).


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## compur (Feb 9, 2012)

It's not absolutely necessary to measure the length of the film. If it fits into the cassette it will work. When shooting, advance by hand and take it easy when you get toward the end so you don't yank the tape off. But, if you do yank the tape off, it's not the end of the world either.  Just load directly onto the development reel from the camera inside the bag.

Of course, this is assuming you process your own film and use a manual-advance camera.


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## Compaq (Feb 9, 2012)

I do use a manual advance camera, and I would like to develop my own film - that's why I'm joining the photo club for students at the uni. I don't know how good this darkroom is yet, but I'll find out soon.

Whether I've loaded my camera with 30 or 33 or 35 exposures makes little matter to me.. Only I will save space if I keep it to 6x exposures. But that's just a detail, and I don't think I'd be too much bothered by it.


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## Josh66 (Feb 9, 2012)

Compaq said:


> 27x30 inches.. That's almost one square meter of work space, would that be sufficient, based on your experiences?


It's fine if you want to use a loader.  How are you going to stretch both arms out inside there though?

I use a loader...  Stick it in the changing bag, load the film in it, then the rest can be done in daylight.

Getting the film into the loader can be tricky the first time, but you get used to it pretty quick.

Like compur said, the amount doesn't have to be exact (but if you don't have a manual advance camera, it will probably rewind at 36 exposures no matter how much film is left) - but I like to know how many frames I have till the end of the roll...  The frame counter on my loader is pretty accurate.  There is hardly any wasted film when I develop it.  And if I want to do some 12 exposure rolls for testing something out, I can do that too.

I think I would disagree that it's easier to work in a dark room though...  In the changing bag, all you have to do is put the film in the loader.  You do everything else in the light.  In a dark room, you would have to measure out the film, cut it, tape it to the spool, roll it up, put it in the film canister, then put the bulk roll back in it's tin when you're done.  All that without knocking something over, and then having to search the floor for that spool you dropped or something...

I will admit that the film is hard to get into the loader if you've never done it though...


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## CCericola (Feb 9, 2012)

Back in the olde days of yor. I worked at an amusement park in VA. I worked for Keyhole Photo and accosted you as you entered the park so we could take your picture and later sell it to you in keychain form. Anyway. We bulk loaded film. The loaders work just fine. In your case you just need a changing bag to load the film in the loader. Then sit, watch TV and load a bunch of rolls.


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## Compaq (Feb 9, 2012)

Well, I don't want a loader. I like to do things myself and relying on experience. Loader's out of the question for me. I been presented with its positives, and I disregard them all 

On a more serious note, what do I actually _need_? For doing this manually, I mean. I won't do it in the darkroom, or a dark room, but in a bag. That just seems way easier. I don't need to measure the entire length of the film at once, I can do add up a few lengths and leave it out in the bag. Whilst I do need to be careful of not scratching it, it's perfectly possible to do, I've read about several that has done it.
So, any suggestions as to what I actually need? I think I wrote a list earlier of what I _think_ I need, but I may have missed something obvious.


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## ann (Feb 9, 2012)

frankly i have to disagree, it isn't easier in a changing bag. the film can twist and turn and do all sorts of strange things.

However, you have made up your mind that this is how you wish  to do this action. I would suggest you buy an out of date roll or film, may be 50 feet on ebay and do some practice rolls before committing to the real thing. That way the learning mistake won't be as costly.


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## Josh66 (Feb 9, 2012)

Compaq said:


> I won't do it in the darkroom, or a dark room, but in a bag. That just seems way easier.


Have you ever worked in a changing bag before?

There isn't as much room as you would think, and the more you're moving around, the sweatier it'll get.  Once you start sweating, everything gets harder.  You don't really want to be spending a lot of time in there...  Once you start to sweat a little, the film will start to get sticky.  And the more you rush to hurry up and get done once it starts getting sticky, the worse it will get.  You'll probably be able to load two or three rolls before it gets too humid in the bag to do anything.  (Probably actually closer to 1 or 2 rolls...)

You could measure out 2 or 3 lengths (like, from your hand to your elbow), then cut that off and roll it up.  I think the risk of creasing the film would be higher though, with just a pile of film sitting there in the bag.  You'll have to tape it to the spool in the bag to - that might be tricky inside a bag.  (Getting the tape off the roll and onto the spool without it touching the film or side of the bag.)

Possible, yes.  Easier, no.


Other than a dark place (room or bag) and scissors/tape, there isn't really anything else you 'need'.  The bulk film will come in a tin, and it will probably be in a light-tight bag inside that.


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## CCericola (Feb 9, 2012)

What josh said. Those bags do get warm. That's why I like the loaders. Sounds like the way you want to do it, you will be touching the film WAY too much.


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## Compaq (Feb 9, 2012)

Oh, I didn't mean easier as in not as hard, but rather more practical for me, as opposed to walk 30 minutes to the darkroom. And I'm not really keen om lightsealing any rooms in the house...me and four friends live together, and claiming a room for periods of time just to load film... meh.

As a chemist-to-be, I'm used to taking precautions. Getting a pair of gloves shouldn't be hard. If it's as warm as you say, I can leave a window open or something. I'll make it work. + there's the bonus of being able to bring it with me when I'm travelling, so that I can load film elsewhere, even in the field, should it come to that (which is probably never will  )
I would of course practice on some old rolls beforehand. I'm usually pretty thorough in my hobbies.

Thanks for all the advice!

Working in a chemistry lab is not easy. Knowing the theory is not enough to function effectively. I may be able to predict the reactions beforehand on paper, but being able to set up the apparatuses and knowing which handy little tools to use and how they work is a completely different matter. That's where experience comes in. The same will apply to this. Are there any handy things I might find useful? Something I should stock up on such as having enough cartridges for the film?


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## SCraig (Feb 9, 2012)

I used a loader myself.  Still have it around here somewhere.  I knew how many cranks it took for 36 exposures and it was a simple matter to load a half dozen cassettes.


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## slackercruster (Feb 9, 2012)

CCericola said:


> Back in the olde days of yor. I worked at an amusement park in VA. I worked for Keyhole Photo and accosted you as you entered the park so we could take your picture and later sell it to you in keychain form. Anyway. We bulk loaded film. The loaders work just fine. In your case you just need a changing bag to load the film in the loader. Then sit, watch TV and load a bunch of rolls.



Cc got it right. That's how you do it. Don't be so cheap, buy a few loaders and have a differnt film in each one. Then load in peace and don't screw around guessing.


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## slackercruster (Feb 9, 2012)

Compaq said:


> Well, I don't want a loader. I like to do things myself and relying on experience. Loader's out of the question for me. I been presented with its positives, and I disregard them all
> 
> On a more serious note, what do I actually _need_? For doing this manually, I mean. I won't do it in the darkroom, or a dark room, but in a bag. That just seems way easier. I don't need to measure the entire length of the film at once, I can do add up a few lengths and leave it out in the bag. Whilst I do need to be careful of not scratching it, it's perfectly possible to do, I've read about several that has done it.
> So, any suggestions as to what I actually need? I think I wrote a list earlier of what I _think_ I need, but I may have missed something obvious.




You like going against the grain don't you?

Here it is in the 'film is dead' age and your just starting out in film and not listening to the old timers that handled film for many decades. 

I did dye transfer, type r, nitrogen burst type C, Cibachromes, E4 and every sort of BW process under the sun...and your telling us how to load film by guessing arms length???


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## Josh66 (Feb 9, 2012)

Compaq said:


> + there's the bonus of being able to bring it with me when I'm travelling, so that I can load film elsewhere, even in the field, should it come to that (which is probably never will  )


A bulk loader would be _perfect_ for that.  Certainly much less crap you would have to drag around with you.

...I just don't think you realize how much of a pain it the ass this is going to be for you.  I mean, you're kind of setting your self up for failure...  As far as portability, a bulk loader is hard to beat.


Other than that, I think you have everything you need.


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## Compaq (Feb 9, 2012)

Firstly, I'd like to underline that I am complete noob when it comes to film. I am not, by any means, trying to tell you how to load film. 

Like to go against the grain? I suppose you could say so. Is that the reason why I choose the way I do? Nope. Read this, and I hope to explain my choices a little better:

The main reason why I decided to buy an analog rangefinder was that I could be able to get the negatives developed into physical images, which I then could put in albums. Yes, I could print digital files myself, or get them printed, but the process is so much less personal than analog _*I feel*_. I like the feeling of shooting film. I did when I was young(er). Then I shot disposable cameras I got from my parents. You know, I got one disposable camera with, say, 24 exposures that I was to use through out our one-week long vacation. I remember being selective about the pictures I took. I miss that, making the shots count.

Another thing I considered was that the whole process will become much more personal. When I press the shutter, I'm initiating chemical reactions on the film. The process is something that I can appreciate, because I study chemistry. I'm taking a course this semester called "inorganic chemistry", which I know will help me in understanding the processes. By current background already makes me better suited to understand the process than most people. As a chemist-to-be, I appreciate the process in ways I don't appreciate digital.

The above section brings me to why I want to develop my own film: doing chemical reactions and creating images myself. When I want to learn something, I want to do it properly. I don't have very serious hobbies, but those that I do have I want to master - or strive to perfect.

Making the whole image taking process more personal is also something I welcome. That is why researched buying film in bulk and load myself. I don't want a loader to do it for me when I, in time, will learn to do this myself. I'm fully capable to do many things machines do for me. The machines may be better at first, but when I gain experience in this I will outperform any loader. The same would apply to anyone of you. I take pride in "doing my hobbies myself". Others might not, but I do.'

That is why I want to load film myself. Not because I know most people don't. Not because I think I'm awesome and believe I'm better than oldtimers on here. It's just because I like to learn by experience. I like to know that "this is something I've done so many times that I know I will do it well enough". I can go to a river with a rod, some worms and a short piece of line and catch lots of fish to eat. That is because I rely on my experience in where the trout stands, how to handle the rod and how to not scare the fish. Sure, there's a learning process, but that is something I'm looking forward to. I might ruin a couple of rolls, and it might be annoying there and then, but I will learn from it, and, in time, I will look back and smile at the whole thing. 

I hope that shed some light on my intentions to those who questioned them.


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## table1349 (Feb 9, 2012)

Compaq said:


> Firstly, I'd like to underline that I am complete noob when it comes to film. I am not, by any means, trying to tell you how to load film.
> 
> Like to go against the grain? I suppose you could say so. Is that the reason why I choose the way I do? Nope. Read this, and I hope to explain my choices a little better:
> 
> ...



While I admire you determination, your reasoning that all of this makes more personal doesn't hold up.  Not unless you are going to invest in a darkroom, including a dichroic enlarger and all the asundry pieces of equipment, papers and chemicals that go with printing your own images.  That is where the "personalization" come in, when you are creating that final look that you want.


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## Compaq (Feb 9, 2012)

That's why I'm joining the student's photo club where I shall take a darkroom course and get free use of it. Here I plan to develop film and print images.

Personalisation might not come directly from the film loading, but I will control one more step of the process with my own hands, which is what I'm after. You may disagree, this is just how I feel.

+ I'll save money


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## Josh66 (Feb 9, 2012)

Compaq said:


> That is why researched buying film in bulk and load myself. I don't want a loader to do it for me when I, in time, will learn to do this myself. I'm fully capable to do many things machines do for me.


You do realize that a bulk film loader is basically just a light-tight box with a crank on the side, right?  It's not 'doing anything for you'.  It's no more a machine than the scissors you're going to use to cut the film.  Are you going to make a knife out of flint for that?

Using a film loader is still a very manual, 'hands-on' process.  You're basically just using the loader as a light-tight film dispenser.


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## Compaq (Feb 9, 2012)

Valid points, O|||||||||O (darn, I'll just call you Josh ). If I find out that I take no joy in the process without a loader, I'll get one. I'd like to try without first, though


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## Josh66 (Feb 9, 2012)

Just set some money aside for a loader.  

Loading film without it isn't hard, in a dark room.  It's going to be very frustrating trying to do it inside a changing bag.

You've gotta have some room you can make light tight for a while...?  Closet or something.  It's doesn't have to be a big room.  Preferably, you would want some kind of counter/shelf to be there so you can set your stuff down while you're working.  Before I had a changing bag and loader, I did it in the bathroom - I sealed the door with tape, and waited till it was dark outside just in case.  I never had any light issues with my film, so I guess it worked.    It took maybe 2 minutes to make the room light-tight.  Make sure you unplug any sort of electric shaver chargers or anything with lights on it (sounds obvious, but it's easy to overlook).

That's what I would suggest if you don't want a loader.


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## ann (Feb 9, 2012)

it takes a few minutes to put a roll of bulk film in a loader, and you just need a room that is light tight for 5 minutes. No need to walk 30 minutes to a darkroom.


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## tirediron (Feb 9, 2012)

ann said:


> it takes a few minutes to put a roll of bulk film in a loader, and you just need a room that is light tight for *5 minutes*. No need to walk 30 minutes to a darkroom.


In which time, with a little practice you can load five casettes!


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## Compaq (Feb 11, 2012)

Well, you guys sure want me to use a loader lol  I'll try without and post my experiences afters some time. Should I learn to hate it, then I'll get this loader


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## Josh66 (Feb 11, 2012)

I'm not saying you can't do it without a loader...  I AM saying that doing it without a loader and refusing to use anything but a changing bag will be very difficult (but not impossible) though.  

Just buy a roll of tape (gaffers tape if you want to get all fancy) and seal the edges of your bathroom door.  It'll take two minutes and you'll have all the room you need without the humidity of a changing bag.


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