# NEVER shot a wedding...jump in head first and charge nothing?



## Rosy (Dec 11, 2013)

Co-worker approached me about wedding photography.  I was honest and said, never did one.  She asked if I was willing.  She also is looking around for some 'affordable' wedding photographers.

TELL HER YES - I'll shoot it at no cost for my portfolio

This is what my brain telling me....IF they like the images I can sell them the prints

Sound fair?


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## Braineack (Dec 11, 2013)

Rosy said:


> IF they like the images I can sell them the prints. Sound fair?



sounds fair if you put that in your contract...


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## Designer (Dec 11, 2013)

Her wanting to save money is understandable, but be sure that your skills match her expectations.


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## pixmedic (Dec 11, 2013)

Selling them prints is only viable if you arent giving them the photos on disk. 
Its not that you can't still sell prints, it's just harder when they can just go down to costo and get cheap prints. 

Even if you do this for free, do NOT neglect to get a signed contract spelling out  what you will be providing, when you will be providing it, and what format you will be providing it it.


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## pixmedic (Dec 11, 2013)

I would also like to point out that it is perfectly acceptable to tell them "no" if you feel you are lacking in knowledge, skill, or equipment to do wedding photography. 
just because they say they cant/wont pay for a "pro", does not make _*their*_ wedding pictures _*your *_responsibility.


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## Rosy (Dec 11, 2013)

pixmedic said:


> I would also like to point out that it is perfectly acceptable to tell them "no" if you feel you are lacking in knowledge, skill, or equipment to do wedding photography.
> just because they say they cant/wont pay for a "pro", does not make _*their*_ wedding pictures _*your *_responsibility.



i appreciate that - i know myself.  i'll make myself SICK because I realize how importantthis day is.  My motto is - Deliver MORE than expected, if you can't -  don't commit


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## tirediron (Dec 11, 2013)

Rosy said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> > I would also like to point out that it is perfectly acceptable to tell them "no" if you feel you are lacking in knowledge, skill, or equipment to do wedding photography.
> ...


Under promise and over deliver - words to live by for the small business person.  I would skip the whole money aspect of this altogether.  Reiterate that you are NOT a wedding photographer but if they would like, you will come along and take some pictures, just so they have something.  No charge.  If they like the work, they can buy you a nice dinner or something.  I would stay strictly away from all business; there's no quicker way to lose friends or make an enemy of a co-worker.  Regardless of what they tell you, the expectation goes wayyyyyyyyy up when there's anything business-like involved.


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## Big Mike (Dec 11, 2013)

Many years ago, I took a class about how to get started in wedding photography.  The number one point of the entire class, was that most people fail because they don't charge enough, and that the amount of experience you have, shouldn't factor into your price.  

If you are good enough, then you should charge a good rate for it.  If you aren't good enough yet, then you have no business shooting a wedding (on your own).  

There are several ways to build a portfolio without taking on the responsibility of being the primary photographer for someone's wedding.  



> This is what my brain telling me....IF they like the images I can sell them the prints


Just playing devil's advocate here, but what if they _don't_ like the images?  Would you just shrug your shoulders and say "better luck next time...you get what you pay for" ?  
That's not a good way to get started in weddings.  

Also, if you shoot the wedding for free, but only hope to make money selling prints...then you are telling them that your time is worth nothing...and that will reflect in how they view you and treat you.  

As an example:
Imagine it's the wedding day and after the ceremony you are trying to take photos of the B&G, maybe with their family or the wedding party etc.  But all around you are the wedding guests, and most of them are also trying to take photos of the B&G.  Most will be using their phones, but some will have cameras, one or two may likely have better cameras than you.  The B&G will be standing there, with 20 cameras pointed at them, and they won't know where to look or who to pose for.  They see a bunch of friends and family, people they know and love...and then there is you, someone who they didn't pay to be there.  It's not a good scenario to be in, and it makes it hard to get the good photos that you want to create for them.

And when you want to take them away from the crowd of guests, to get some photos...how much of a priority are you going to be?  It's not like they're loosing any money if they don't give you much time.  

Sure, they would want nice photos (who wouldn't?)....but if they are the type of people who 'hired' a free wedding photographer, they probably don't care as much about the photos as they should.  And again, this is not a good scenario for you.  It can be pretty hard to get great photos of people who don't care enough about helping you to get great photos.

But if they have paid you, especially if it's a significant amount, they will be much more likely to pay attention to you.  From a selfish (but understandable) standpoint, they would want to get their money's worth, so the would want to work with you and hopefully have you as a higher priority than the guests with cameras.  But from a better standpoint, if they are the type of people who are willing to pay for good photography, and that alone makes for better photos.

*edit* Had to run off before finishing my post
So my point with the example, is that it's not a good idea to charge nothing, especially with the attitude of 'maybe they will buy prints if they like them'.  You need to be confident and know that your time is valuable and you shouldn't just give it away.  People will respect you more for that...and clients who respect you, will often make for better photos, which makes you happy and them happy.  

Now, with all that being said...we all have to start somewhere.  And I'd venture that most wedding photographers have stories of similar situations from their early days.  I would suggest trying to find a way to be involved but you may not want to assume the responsibility of being the THE wedding photographer.  

Most of my first wedding experience, was for family members who asked my to shoot their weddings, but I told them to hire a pro for the most important things like the ceremony and formals, but that I would shoot the rest.  Everything from getting ready to the last dance at the end of the night.


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## Rosy (Dec 11, 2013)

tirediron said:


> Rosy said:
> 
> 
> > pixmedic said:
> ...



the advice I get here is priceless. Ii truly appreciate all who take the time and selflessly help others!


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## Rosy (Dec 11, 2013)

_There are several ways to build a portfolio without taking on the responsibility of being the primary photographer for someone's wedding._ 

Can you elaborate?


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## KmH (Dec 11, 2013)

Set up a mock wedding using your friends/family as a B&G, officiant, audience.
Professional photographers often hire professional models to make portfolio images.

the f stops here: how to attract terrible clients


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## Designer (Dec 11, 2013)

Rosy said:


> _There are several ways to build a portfolio without taking on the responsibility of being the primary photographer for someone's wedding._
> 
> Can you elaborate?



If wedding photography is something you want to do professionally, get whatever photos you can get by being "second shooter".  You can make the non-model photos using whatever props you can scrounge up.  Hire a model for some wedding shots.  (Or ask a friend to stand in.)  get other model shots into your portfolio such as "engagement", informal and formal portraits, and develop a real business model obtaining whatever licensure that may be required, a tax ID, decent graphics, a website, and anything else you can think of that shows you are a real wedding photographer.


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## Big Mike (Dec 11, 2013)

Rosy said:


> _There are several ways to build a portfolio without taking on the responsibility of being the primary photographer for someone's wedding._
> Can you elaborate?



I heard about a photographer who recruited a couple models (good looking friends of his), borrowed a few sets of wedding attire from a consignment shot, borrowed or rented a few backdrops and spent 8 hours in his garage.  The end result was enough photos to create a portfolio to help book actual weddings.  

I mentioned how I got my start.

Second shooting is also a very good way to get started.  You find a working pro who will hire you on and let you use the image for your portfolio.  This can sometimes be a paid position, but some will consider it compensation enough that you get to learn (and maybe use your photos).


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## robbins.photo (Dec 11, 2013)

Big Mike said:


> Just playing devil's advocate here, but what if they _don't_ like the images? Would you just shrug your shoulders and say "better luck next time...you get what you pay for" ?
> That's not a good way to get started in weddings.



Hidey ho good neighbors.  Satan here.  Just wanted to thank Big Mike for his advocacy.  We certainly appreciate it.. lol.

But seriously, one thing I think you really, really ought to consider here is your current relationship with your co-worker.  See, thing is if you do this and things go well then great, everything is hunky dory.  But what happens if things don't go well?  If your images don't meet expectations you are basically leaving yourself open to having your relationship with your co-worker sour and that might even go on to affect other relationships you have with other, fellow co-workers.

Not knowing what your current relationship is like or what your co-worker is like these are things you'll have to assess for yourself, but a word to the wise - weddings are already pretty emotionally charged to begin with, most of the primary participants involved expect/desire nothing less than absolute perfection and the fact that you weren't paid won't matter to them at all.  So just imagine after the wedding your co-worker is showing some of these photo's to the mother, mother in law, etc - and they find them less than perfect.  They start complaining to her, telling her how substandard they are, put the idea in her head, one thing leads to another and then you've got serious trouble in river city.

Guess my thinking here is you've got a ton of risk without much of an upside in this situation.  So if it were me I'd go for the polite decline.


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## gsgary (Dec 11, 2013)

If you are doing it for free i don't see the point of doing it


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## pixmedic (Dec 11, 2013)

gsgary said:


> If you are doing it for free i don't see the point of doing it



i believe in her post she mentioned doing it for her portfolio. other possible reason too though. 
maybe for the experience. 
maybe she thinks she will enjoy doing it. 
maybe to help out a coworker/friend. 

doing the wedding for free might not be the best _*business*_ move, but I think it is far from pointless.


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## Braineack (Dec 11, 2013)

so long as it's an open bar...  


although, it really does seem like a LOT of work without any sort compensation or than some *hopeful* portfolio shots.


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## robbins.photo (Dec 11, 2013)

Braineack said:


> so long as it's an open bar...
> 
> 
> although, it really does seem like a LOT of work without any sort compensation or than some *hopeful* portfolio shots.



I guess my thing would be if this thing goes south, and man there are just so many ways this thing could go south it's not even funny, your stuck with a co-worker that will hate you till his/her dying day.  Not worth the risk IMHO, not just for a few shots to put in a portfolio.  If this were a friend of a friend deal that would be one thing, but somebody you work with everyday?  Yup, just got nightmare written all over it.. lol


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## vintagesnaps (Dec 11, 2013)

I'm an experienced photographer and have done sports, events etc. but weddings involve specific skills and techniques and planning. If I wanted to do a wedding which is unlikely since my first thought was - run far, run fast... I'd find a photographer that I could observe and assist if I wanted to give it a try and get some experience. It's not just having a portfolio, you need to know how to produce good results consistently.

As mentioned it's not your responsibility; it's nice to be asked but it's up to them to budget for all their expenses and if they want the wedding photographed then that should get worked into their budget. 

This type thing gets posted so often I'm starting to feel like it's almost an insult - as a photographer I've put a lot of time and my ability and effort into what I do, I'm sure that any good wedding photographer has done the same. For whatever reason sometimes people seem to think that any friend with a camera can photograph a wedding; maybe the best thing you can do is offer to take some candids at the reception just for fun and suggest they find a pro to photograph the ceremony. There aren't any do-overs with this.


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## robbins.photo (Dec 11, 2013)

vintagesnaps said:


> I'm an experienced photographer and have done sports, events etc. but weddings involve specific skills and techniques and planning. If I wanted to do a wedding which is unlikely since my first thought was - run far, run fast... I'd find a photographer that I could observe and assist if I wanted to give it a try and get some experience. It's not just having a portfolio, you need to know how to produce good results consistently.
> 
> As mentioned it's not your responsibility; it's nice to be asked but it's up to them to budget for all their expenses and if they want the wedding photographed then that should get worked into their budget.
> 
> This type thing gets posted so often I'm starting to feel like it's almost an insult - as a photographer I've put a lot of time and my ability and effort into what I do, I'm sure that any good wedding photographer has done the same. For whatever reason sometimes people seem to think that any friend with a camera can photograph a wedding; maybe the best thing you can do is offer to take some candids at the reception just for fun and suggest they find a pro to photograph the ceremony. There aren't any do-overs with this.



Well at least not until they get divorced and then plan to re-marry.. but ya, other than that, no do-over.. lol


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## Designer (Dec 11, 2013)

One more comment:

I recently attended a wedding that hired a professional photographer.  IMO, nearly everything was WRONG!

Venue was the groom's parent's house, and the ceremony was against the sun.  Everybody was shading their eyes, and it was difficult to see the wedding couple due to the very poor lighting.

The photog compounded the poor lighting by posing everybody against the setting sun, and did not use flash.  I have not seen her photographs, but I can't imagine that they were what I would call good.  

So since nearly anybody can do better than that, I have high confidence that you will just fine.


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## pixmedic (Dec 11, 2013)

robbins.photo said:


> vintagesnaps said:
> 
> 
> > I'm an experienced photographer and have done sports, events etc. but weddings involve specific skills and techniques and planning. If I wanted to do a wedding which is unlikely since my first thought was - run far, run fast... I'd find a photographer that I could observe and assist if I wanted to give it a try and get some experience. It's not just having a portfolio, you need to know how to produce good results consistently.
> ...



well, given the divorce rate here in the U.S., She actually has a pretty decent chance at getting a do-over.


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## nomiko (Dec 11, 2013)

Ok their are a few good advice here.... I don't know about you but I do photography as a hobby and as a fun professionally m a civil engineer, 
If you want to do it for fun and to make her happy then do it, but at least you should have the necessary equipment.. and before you directly going in to her wedding,first take pictures of her and show her if you are ok with that i can deliver this , so that tomorrow she doesn't have any grudges that u ruined her wedding photographs if she is ok with it do it just for the fun and the hobby of it,,,, coz I would have done it like that...
But m not a pro photographer, so if u r into it for business then its a different story..... 
And yeah once if she has confidence on you that you would produce great photographs she will respect you and pose for you leaving all the rest of cameras you have to earn it by photographing her before as I told
hope this helps 

Sent from my HUAWEI MT1-U06 using Tapatalk


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## JerryVenz (Dec 11, 2013)

Rosy said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> > I would also like to point out that it is perfectly acceptable to tell them "no" if you feel you are lacking in knowledge, skill, or equipment to do wedding photography.
> ...




DON'T DO IT !  If you truly want to do weddings you need to assist an experienced professional on several weddings--getting feedback and ciitiques on all your images.

That's how I started weddings 25+ years ago and weddings are STILL the most difficult and demanding of ANY of the many types of professional photography I do.

As was mentioned--there's NO UPSIDE in this situation for you.


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## manicmike (Dec 11, 2013)

Do it if you want to. It's your life.


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## DiskoJoe (Dec 11, 2013)

Never do a wedding for free. If you think this could be a learning experience then youre not ready. Weddings are a major deal and not simple. You need to be confident in your work and abilities and if you dont think you are good enough to charge then you are not good enough to even do the event. This is not the time for a learning experiment. I only did one wedding free ever and it was for my best friends cousin that I had known for 15 years and they ended up paying me anyway cause they liked the pics so much. Now I wont do them for less than at least $500 cash and that is the friend rate. Plus if you shoot a wedding you deserve to get paid. With the shoot and the post work we are literally talking a whole two days worth of work or possibly more. Its a lot of work.


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## Tee (Dec 11, 2013)

Go for it. Just have a contract to protect you. 

And for those telling you to second shoot first, it's all find and dandy if you can land a second shooter gig but it's getting harder and harder to do so. That's not always the best first option.


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## kim_kennedy (Feb 17, 2014)

If you are into the wedding photography for 1st time, then you should do it for free. Get feedback from your clients. If they like your work or not.


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## JoeW (Feb 22, 2014)

Lots of good (and also divergent) responses here that should prove valuable to the OP.  Let me add my views to the cacophony of perspectives.

1.  I also support the position of doing the first shoot for free b/c it's a way to do some learning and building a business for you.  In an ideal world, you'd start by being a second shooter for a couple of weddings.  But that doesn't seem to be in the cards.  If you view this as an opportunity to:
--build your portfolio.
--gain some experience (which includes learning that you may never want to shoot another wedding again for the rest of your life)
--gain a reference that may help you grow your wedding business
...than consider shooting for free.  And that includes giving them a DVD of the photos with some selected edits.
Yes, that's a tremendous amount of time on your part with no formal compensation.  But for someone with NO wedding experience, it's a realistic way for you to confront yourself with the reality of shooting weddings and make some post-shoot decisions about what to charge and if this is something you really want to do.

2.  Recognize a risk here.  You may piss off a co-worker.  She may hate the work you do and tell others that's the case.  You may miss critical shots.  She may show your work to your co-workers (who compare it to their own wedding portfolios and think "I'm glad I didn't use her--MY photographer was so much better.").  You may get in to a fight with your co-worker who expects you to edit ALL of the 300 photos that you take...or also take portraits the week before the wedding.  I'm not trying to make you insecure.  I'm trying to give you a reality check about shooting weddings.  I know some people where they do this professionally and it's 80-95% of their business.  But they go in to it with open eyes, hard emotions and cold calculation.  B/c the earlier post about under-pricing yourself is absolutely true when it comes to wedding photography.

3.  Other than the "i'll shoot for free", you need to treat everything as if it were the real deal.  Sign a contract.  Specify what you will and won't shoot/provide, when you'll be there, how long you'll stay, when they can expect to get the edits, what form they'll be in, what they can do with the photos you give them.  For instance, some bridezillas or mothers of the bride will use this as opportunity to get family portraits of everyone in the family "okay, now let's get all the grandkids together, just the grandkids...okay, now let's get just Grandpa and Grandma...." and expect you to shoot 150 photos which do NOT include the bride and groom but other family members posing.  I'd argue that the most challenging role for good wedding photographers isn't the photography, it's the contractural/expectation managing business.  And if the arrangement you end up with is:  you shoot for free or maybe a steak dinner and they don't demand anything of you and are grateful for what you give them, then you both got cheated and it's not really a learning experience for you.  Treat this like a real, serious, paying gig involving $10k (except there's no money).  And at the end, you won't undervalue your services in the future and you'll know if you really want to be a wedding photographer.  If you view this as it's practice and isn't a real job, you'll unconsciously devote less time and effort to the edits (or won't do any edits), you won't sweat the details.  And if you do the free trade with that mindset, you'll get a set of results that look like (maybe) they were shot by a well-meaning amateur who just happened to show up...and that isn't going to get you future business (except from someone who offers you $150 to shoot their wedding...but only if you include a CD of all the photos...edited!).  I'm serious about this.  You need to treat this like it's a real, serous, big-time paying gig with someone who is connected politically/socially and can bring you in dozes of clients at $10k a pop...except that you make no money from this gig.  You need to set deadlines with the client, do a pre-wedding visit, talk to the wedding planner, think through your wardrobe and equipment, create a shot sequence list, have backup plans, have a portrait station set up on site, review other wedding portfolios to get some ideas for poses and concepts and then plan on devote a huge chunk of time to edits.  A big part of your learning curve here isn't the actual photography (those that's part of it), it's the managing the client and her expectations.  So treat it like it's a $10k gig.

4.  They're getting a wedding portfolio for free.  So you should think about asking them for some things that benefit you.  That might mean letting you shoot some wedding portraits.  Or posing for some shots they might not have intended to shoot (such as the bride preparing or a portrait outdoors in a scenic location).  There are a range of wedding styles (like shooting as a photojournalist who is telling a story, shooting artistic photos that capture a feel for an event or location but may not look like wedding shots...like rose petals in a narrow DoF or a row of glasses pre-reception) or just the standard iconic wedding cliche poses.  You may want to attempt to shoot a range of different looks so you have a more diverse portfolio.

5.  And what you may very well discover from the experience of all the pre-shoot work, the client management, the negotiations with the mother-of-the-bride about what gets shot is that you hate it all.  In which case this will be the best TF result you could get...a clear-eyed understanding of the hassles and logistics involved with wedding photography and a decision not to get in to it and then regret the decision later.  Do NOT let them say "well, b/c you're doing this for free, we'll take whatever you decide to give us."  You want to get as much value from this as you can and managing the client and expectations, working through all the details and logistics is part of it.  You may decide you're a great fit for wedding photography in which case this was invaluable.  But in any case don't use the fee amount (or lack of one) to justify slacking off in the prep and details.


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## Rosy (Feb 24, 2014)

sleep well my TPF buddies -  I am not doing it.  All your comments were well received.  I appreciate your time


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## billydoo73 (Mar 8, 2014)

Rosy said:


> Co-worker approached me about wedding photography.  I was honest and said, never did one.  She asked if I was willing.  She also is looking around for some 'affordable' wedding photographers.
> 
> TELL HER YES - I'll shoot it at no cost for my portfolio
> 
> ...



If you have the gear and have the skills do it.  Most that ask this question are either extremely naive and think they have the skills when they don't.  Or, have mad skills but are afraid.

If you understand proper exposure and know how to use off-camera flash then do it.

Honestly, I don't think weddings are that terribly hard.  The family formals are tricky, but we are much harder on ourselves than the clients (most of them).  What is hard is the schedule and just making sure you are there for the "moments."  Weddings are often predictable right down to the music.  If you have done a few, you see that.

You need the gear and you need to be honest with yourself.  You know if you are ready.  If you are, don't do it for free.  To quote Boiler Room (the movie), "Act as if."  Act as if you are a pro.  Charge a rate she can afford and do it.  If you have a tough time getting a perfect shot of a child blowing out candles, then practice more or 2nd shoot a bit.

my 2 cents.


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## Darkershadesofbrown (Apr 20, 2014)

If you want to do it for free you are setting a dangerous precedent. Your time is your time. If this is a friend who you have a relationship with be very careful. VERY CAREFUL... Wedding photography is an emotional endeavor for all parties involved.


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## Tee (Apr 20, 2014)

I lucked out when I did a favor for my long time friend and his wife.  They literally were going to have nothing so I at least gave them something and both my buddy and his bride are down to earth.   Other's are not so lucky.


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