# order print page, what sizes and options should i include?



## mike2897 (Jan 2, 2013)

i'm an amateur photographer who is making a photography website with the option to order prints. i've never professionally printed before, so i will use Bay Photo or a similar service

i want my options to be few enough to not be overwhelming, but enough to where the customer has a nice choice.  i have no idea besides a fine print option what people expect when they order photographs. should i just include all of bayphoto's options on their site, which include gator board and 2mm styrene, black and white? would you consider just those options acceptable or should i include framing options.  i need some company to be able to do all of it for me since i'll be traveling. my target audience will be people looking for budget prints, so everything will be below $100.

my other concern is that i want options that are available around the world so i can offer free shipping outside the US. for instance, i want someone in Australia, England, etc to have free shipping if i order from a local company, so i don't want mounting options that aren't common around the world


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## KmH (Jan 2, 2013)

*Please do not cross-post in multiple forums*, as stated in the forum FAQs.

The duplicate thread you started 40 minutes or so after starting this one has been deleted.

Once you offer your photos for sale, you're no longer an amateur photographer.

Any single source, like Bay Photo, will likely have additional charges for international shipping. The larger and heavier the order, the more the shipping will cost.
http://www.bayphoto.com/support/faqs_internationalshipping.html

To keep your pricing below $100 and actually make money, you will need to limit the options and sizes you offer.
A non-color corrected Bay Photo 20x30 on Gaterboard would cost you $46.40 - before any shipping charges.
A basic retail photography business rule of thumb is you have to mark-up *at least* 3x (300%) to make a profit. $46.40 x 3 = $139.20

An additional issue is that having a retail web site requires promoting/marketing/advertising your web site to generate web site visits. It's a numbers game. You a significant number of visits every day to generate sales.


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## Tamgerine (Jan 2, 2013)

This is difficult, as there are a different number of questions that apply to your situation. The first is who is your customer, and what do they buy? You said you're looking for budget customers. Does this target market even know what 2mm styrene is? DO they shop online for art? How are you going to get your website in front of them, and THEN motivate them to buy? Does this market buy more postcards, and less fine art prints? 

An ideal situation is you become more involved in the consulting and sales of your product. That way you can offer advice on what is going to look best in their home, and what all of their options are. People browsing online have very little patience, and if they get overwhelmed they typically leave the website. 

KmH is right in that smaller options may be better for you, that way you can optimize your profit margins. What are your operating expenses? A website is going to cost money, and an online gallery will cost more depending on who you go with and what they offer. Some services (like Zenfolio) require a cut of your profits in order to facilitate the automated process for you. Since you need a service that will do everything for you (including handling complaints it seems) you're going to be paying for that service. Are you going to be able to cover your operating expenses with the sales you make?

I'm curious to know more about your situation - who are you intending to sell to? Do you already have a following that wants to buy your photography? Do you already have worldwide customers looking to purchase from you? Are you aware of all the tax laws applicable to selling internationally? ​


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## mike2897 (Jan 2, 2013)

Tamgerine said:


> This is difficult, as there are a different number of questions that apply to your situation. The first is who is your customer, and what do they buy? You said you're looking for budget customers. Does this target market even know what 2mm styrene is? DO they shop online for art? How are you going to get your website in front of them, and THEN motivate them to buy? Does this market buy more postcards, and less fine art prints?
> 
> An ideal situation is you become more involved in the consulting and sales of your product. That way you can offer advice on what is going to look best in their home, and what all of their options are. People browsing online have very little patience, and if they get overwhelmed they typically leave the website.
> 
> ...



good questions tamgerine. the purpose of my website is to initially not make money at all, just to be a hub that i can link to from other sites like 500px, where they charge a lot more money and i can over time, get more exposure to my work. i want people to see my pictures there (and other places), and be brought to my site knowing they can get the same prints for half the price. in that aspect, those are customers who are used to buying art online. on the other hand, i know some people who have never bought art before, and i would most likely be the only person they know who sells art. in that regard, i also want an option for them. i do not have a following who wants to buy off me. as for online galleries, i already created a custom gallery and will likely be using fotomoto for ordering now, and if things go well, i will create my own process in the future. my operating expenses are low, around $10 a month for hosting and the domain name.

these seem to be the most common sizes. i'll probably narrow it down more in the next few days. is there another site similar to fotomoto.com that integrates into your site? i think a service that does the printing is better for a beginner, then i can understand the process more for the future when i want to handle it myself.



                                                                  4x6 
                                                                  5x7 
                                                                  8x10 
                                                                  8x12 
                                                                  12x16 
                                                                  16x20 
                                                                  20x30


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## The_Traveler (Jan 2, 2013)

Why are you reinventing the wheel when there are many companies that will host your website, allow you to design your own pages and run the back end photo ordering for you?  e.g. zenfolio, smugmug plus many other slightly more expensive options.


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## KmH (Jan 2, 2013)

Are you aware that many of the print sizes you list there have different aspect ratios, and will need to be cropped to print?

4x6, 8x12, and 20x30 have a 3:2 aspect ratio. The long side is 1.5x longer than the short side (3/2=1.5).
8x10 and 16x20 are 5:4 aspect ratio. The long side is 1.25x longer than the short side (5/4=1.12).
5x7 is 7:5 aspect ratio. The long side is 1.4x longer than the short side (7/5=1.4).
12 x 16 is an oddball, unequal aspect ratio. (16/12= 1.333........)


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## mike2897 (Jan 3, 2013)

The_Traveler said:


> Why are you reinventing the wheel when there are many companies that will host your website, allow you to design your own pages and run the back end photo ordering for you?  e.g. zenfolio, smugmug plus many other slightly more expensive options.



i do plan on uploading my pictures to sites like that, but i prefer to have a .com site with nothing else attached to it. on a side note, i just picked up dot com domain with .99/yr @ godaddy & .99/m hosting @ 1and1.com. amazing deals if anyone is considering purchasing a site

i'll use other sites for ordering pictures then since now that i dabbled into it, i definitely want a company to do all the ordering & work at this busy time in my life. you're right, i shouldn't re-invent the wheel, but creating my own process in the future seems like a good investment of time if i get a steady stream of orders from the other sites and more exposure. my dot com site will just be used for display & blogs for now. thanks for the help everyone. very helpful chart KmH, thanks.

i just released my site a few hours ago, http://michaeldwyerphoto.com/


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## LesFraser (Jan 3, 2013)

Nice website Mike, you just inspired me to do the same! we've just made our own family photo website. Couldn't resist at 1.99p/m!


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