# Infrared..



## Markw (Feb 20, 2009)

I have been looking everywhere and i cant seem to get any direct answers to this question.  So, i figured id ask here.  I was looking into infrared photography, and I was wondering what type of modifications had to be done in order to shoot this.  I have seen some places that say you have to take off the clear hot coated mirror or something along that sorts that covers your cameras sensor and replace it with a clear one with an IR filter in order to shoot them, then Hoyas website says you need a filer and IR film.  This has been very confusing to me.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks.

Mark


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## chrisburke (Feb 20, 2009)

yea there are filters for it i believe, but you can also just keep everything the way it is, and turn the photo into an infared in post processing.. photoshop does a great job of it..

heres a sample

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKoFFKJ14ZE"]this is a tutorial[/ame]


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## UncleRico (Feb 20, 2009)

Markw said:


> I have been looking everywhere and i cant seem to get any direct answers to this question. So, i figured id ask here. I was looking into infrared photography, and I was wondering what type of modifications had to be done in order to shoot this. I have seen some places that say you have to take off the clear hot coated mirror or something along that sorts that covers your cameras sensor and replace it with a clear one with an IR filter in order to shoot them, then Hoyas website says you need a filer and IR film. This has been very confusing to me. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
> 
> Mark


 
I'm a not an expert like many of the others on this forum, but I'm interested in IR too. I've shot IR on an analog camera, and all that is necessary is IR film.

In the digital world, what I've found is that it depends upon your camera.  I have a d80, which apparently has an enhanced filter over the sensor that requires much longer exposures (with an IR filter).  From what I've read, earlier model Nikons don't have this filter and do better with a Hoya (or other IR filter).  There are online companies that will modify your camera (permanently) by removing the manufacturers IR filter.

Hope this helps.  Maybe someone with more knowledge will respond with additional information.

Ryan


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## DeadEye (Feb 20, 2009)

I got a mod from Life Pixel.  They remove the hot mirror from the sensor and replace it with an IR filter.  It works well. No long exposure .  The in camera meter is off by two stops. If you use a strobe it rocks, The sekonic is dead on.  Mine is a canon xti and on this model the ir filter is so thin it leeks some visible light. A fun toy to play with and lots of artistic room.


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## Markw (Feb 20, 2009)

Yeah, at an ectra $300-$400, id rather just but photoshop and pay the little more and still have my regular D90 without changing anything ermanently  But, like i said with the Hoya filters, would it be as simple as just putting the IR filter on the front of the lens and having the exposure longer?  Or would you still need some other type of modification?  And I know almost _everything_ is easily (not so much easily...) done over photoshop, but I don thave that.  Nor do I have enough room or a fast enough computer to have it for that matter 

Mark


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## DeadEye (Feb 21, 2009)

Well Ummmmmmm yes but there are draw backs. A hoya filter plus long exposure will yeild a mostly IR image.   Its like this   

Normal light   >   Hoya filter   >  Mostly  just IR light   >  That darn hot mirror blocking the IR    >   A wee bit of IR and visible light to expose the sensor.


 This is why it takes a long time to get the exposure and then its mixed with a fair amount of visible.


 With the conversion is like this

Normal light  >  IR filter over the sensor > Mostly IR hitting sensor for fast exposure. 

Yes its expensive conversion and then is IR only.


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## Markw (Feb 21, 2009)

Is there anywhere I can see an example of an IR photo using the Hoya filter?

Mark


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## Markw (Feb 21, 2009)

Ok, one more qestion.  When you take an infrared picture, what color does it come out straight from the camera?  I have seen some places sow a red picture for a 100% infra_red_ picture, then I have seen others with remarably white foliage and amazingly undersaturated surroundings.  Which of these is actually true?

Mark


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## ann (Feb 21, 2009)

i use a watten 89 filter on a d100, the times are around 10 seconds with an ISO of 200, and of course using a tripod.

the file is magenta until converting

i also have a camera , fuji s9100, that has been converted to do IR, with this camera i can handhold and also see what is in the frame. With the D100, everything is done ; i.e.focusing (manual) then the filter is added.

Altho the camera allows hand holding it still uses a special filter for IR, and then i can replaced with another filter which will allow "normal" type photos.

check this site for indepth info 
LDP NET


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## Markw (Feb 21, 2009)

Is anyone farmiliar with Photofiltre?  That is the only editing software I have, and I wasn wondering if anyone knew if you could convert a picture to infrared on there like in photoshop?  I doubt it, but i figure its worth a shot.

Mark


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## Markw (Feb 21, 2009)

Does anyone own the Cokin 89B infrared filter?  I am really interested in getting the cokin series of filters as I hear they are very reputable and creative and I would really like this infrared to be available to be in my collection.  Thanks again in advance.

Mark


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## chrisburke (Feb 21, 2009)

never heard of the software your using... perhaps you should download Gimp.. its free.. and its very similar to photoshop....


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## Markw (Feb 21, 2009)

I love photofiltre.  It really is a great program with alot of features.  But, Ive always wanted to download gimp.  Will that do the INfrared conversions?

Mark


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## ann (Feb 21, 2009)

i am not a user of cokin filters, as i much prefer glass.

Any editing software should convert the files to either black and white or color IR.

I am also not a fan of plug-ins for this effect, but that is just a personal decision.


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## bikefreax (Feb 21, 2009)

Markw said:


> Is there anywhere I can see an example of an IR photo using the Hoya filter?
> 
> Mark


 
Here are 2 I shot but mine was with an Opteka IR filter.


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## chrisburke (Feb 21, 2009)

Markw said:


> I love photofiltre.  It really is a great program with alot of features.  But, Ive always wanted to download gimp.  Will that do the INfrared conversions?
> 
> Mark



i posted a link earlier to a youtube guide... follow those directions using gimp.. it may be a bit different (as they are not the same program) but theres no reason it shouldnt do it


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## SympL (Feb 21, 2009)

Mark, a few shots using a Rebel XTi and a Hoya R72 Ir filter. Most of my Ir images are between 10 - 15 second exposures. I have never found a problem at all...quite simple and I still have my camera for normal use.
A very good link that should answer most of your Infrared questions http://www.cocam.co.uk/CoCamWS/Infrared/INFRARED.HTM
I would not even consider these editing programs that suggest Ir imaging, as I have only seen mediocre results. In my opinion, use an IR filter or an Ir dedicated camera. Both will give you very nice results.


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## Markw (Feb 21, 2009)

Ok, so I was looking through Photofiltre, and this is as far as I can come to getting an IR image effect.  The picture was taken in Virginia off a kodak P&S. I know, its a miserable attempt, but its as close as I can get.

Original:





IR attempt:





Mark


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## Markw (Feb 21, 2009)

after re-looking over it, it just looks like a bad B&W copy = [

Mark


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## chrisburke (Feb 22, 2009)

yea, thats very much just a black and white... download gimp...


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## ann (Feb 22, 2009)

markw,
but that photo was not taken with an IR filter, correct?

IMHO, if you want a real IR effect, you need the proper equipment, it is  not just the software.


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## Markw (Feb 22, 2009)

I agree 100% with you ann.  I was just curious.  Now the next question is which company to go with for the filter.  Hoya? Cokin? Wratten (kodak)?

Mark


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## Markw (Feb 22, 2009)

I also have the question that, if I were to get oen of these filtersw, I wouldnt be able to get one of these IR images to look right like the ones shown above by Sympl and bikefreax without photoshop yes?  Or would gimp do that?

Mark


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## pulse (Feb 22, 2009)

Hey.
I have just recently gotten into IR photography so ill tell ya what i know.

I own an olympus E-510, no mods, and it works quite well with the IR filter with usually a shutter speed around 10s and ISO 200.
I use a Hoya filter and it seems that this brand of filter for IR is quite good. i would recommend it.
when you take a, it will come out looking red/orangish.
(i would suggest definitally using RAW when shooting IR).
To get it looking like a real IR photo i just use GIMP(good program, works great) and do some editing.
Once you have GIMP take a look at this video on how to do the channel swapping and other things to make the picture look awesome.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbHzBZtZaIM]YouTube - Swapping Red & Blue Channels On GIMP[/ame]

hope that kinda helps


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## ann (Feb 22, 2009)

any edititing program should work.
i use wratten kodak filters because i have had them for years when i shot IR film.
However, when i got the fuji from maxmax i got the necessary filters from them as they are not the standard ones one would find .

I have several glass filters that i bought on ebay to test and they are fine.

Frankly, any well known filter maker will make a good filter, altho, as i said before i am not a cokin user so i can't speak to that product.


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## Markw (Feb 26, 2009)

I downloaded Gimp.  It is sooo much different than photofiltre.  Much more confusing.  Is there any good tutorials online?  Also, I closed the 'layers, channels, and ___' window and I caqnt seem to get it back up. Any help there would help.  It takes about 10 minutes to do one thing on it because my computer is so stocked and therefore slow.  Any help would be amaing. thanks.  I dont know if this should have its own thread or not..

Mark


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## Markw (Feb 28, 2009)

Ok, well i figured that out..and now I have tried to do an infrared conversion. Tell me what you think.

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/nature-wildlife/157904-my-infrared-attempt.html

Mark


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## bikefreax (Feb 28, 2009)

Markw said:


> I also have the question that, if I were to get oen of these filtersw, I wouldnt be able to get one of these IR images to look right like the ones shown above by Sympl and bikefreax without photoshop yes? Or would gimp do that?
> 
> Mark


 
Mine was just straight out of the camera and it was all red. All I did was convert it to black and white. I did not other changes. But I did use a special white balance.


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## Markw (Feb 28, 2009)

About that special white ballance..is there any set way to do that?  I ave the D90 and for the life of me cant figure out how to do it.  Any help with that would be amazing too.  Also, how do you tell if the IR image turns out well?  Expect everything that you normally would from a regular image, just colorized red?

Mark


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## Tolyk (Feb 28, 2009)

I didn't read all the thread, but there's a test to see how well your camera picks up IR. Take a remote control, point it at your lens and hold a button while you do a 1 or more second exposure. If, in the picture, you can see light coming from the remote, then the IR filter on your sensor isn't super strong.


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## Markw (Feb 28, 2009)

Ok, so I did the infrared sensor test thing that Tolyk said, and this this is the turnout with a 15sec exposure:







So what does this mean?

Mark

PS. Dont forget my question about how to set the special white balance for Infrared photos


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## Tolyk (Feb 28, 2009)

Only some cameras have a built in infrared feature. My Pentax K20 for instance. I switch it to B&W and apply a IR filter right in camera, and I've got IR photos.


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## Markw (Feb 28, 2009)

So does this mean that I could do the same with my D90?  Sorry for all the questions, but I dont know much about infrared photography and am very interested in it.

Mark


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## Tolyk (Feb 28, 2009)

that test just shows if it can see infrared well enough to utilize it. You'd still need to use one of the IR filters to block all the other visible light, so you get a true IR photo. But, yes. You can do IR on the D90, with long shutter speeds and IR filters.


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## Markw (Feb 28, 2009)

Makes sense.  Very cool test.  Would have never thought of it.  Now, Ive seen somewhere that you can set your cameras White Balance by pointing it at something (ie the grass/foliage when doing infrared) and setting it somehow.  Is this possible with the D90?  If not, I know that you are supposed to be using a certain White balance when doing infrared, so how could I do this with the D90?

Mark


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## Markw (Mar 1, 2009)

bump


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## bikefreax (Mar 1, 2009)

I dont know about the D90 but my Olympus has a custom white balance you can set. Basically I set it to custom white balance then put the filter on. I found a nice green spot of grass and took the picture to set the white balance. It should say something in you owners manual because I know nothing about the Nikons.


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## EhJsNe (Mar 1, 2009)

LIke Tolyk said...the remote thing does tell if you have an IR Blocker...I have a digital point and shoot camera, and if you set it to live view, then point the remote at it, you can see the light light up (on the screen of course)

I found a thing on Instructables on how to make an IR filter for a P&S camera. 
heres the URL to my search: How to Make infrared - Instructables search Instructables

And heres the exact one I am reffering to: Take Infrared Pictures With Your Digital Camera

I havent tried it, but form the pics he has, they look pretty darn cool if nothing else. If you want one for a larger lens, im sure you could obtain a roll of 120 or 4x5 film and have that devoloped (dont forget to leave one unexposed)


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## DeadEye (Mar 1, 2009)

Another way is with color gels. Find an IR sensitive camera like an old olympus.   Tape a red green and blue filter over the flash.  Use a peanut to fire a big strobe if necessary also gelled.  Make your light all IR and use no filter on the glass.  Play with gell combo to change effect. ~ Two blue ,one red ,one green  ~ ect.


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## DeadEye (Mar 1, 2009)

Why heck todays P&S cams are dirt cheep. It will be cheeper to buy a P&S and remove the hot miror than buy a good ir filter.  CRRRRRAZYYYYY.  

   Anywho I would be interested to know of a P&S that is fairly easy to get at the sensor filter. ( bench job for micro solder tech )


  Sigma makes a nice SLR that has user removable hot glass for IR Photography.


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## Markw (Mar 1, 2009)

Ok, so Im thinking I will get the Hoya Infrared filter (i think its R-72 or RM-72 or something along those lines) and a tripod with my D90, and try that out for my infrared shots.  Sound good?

Mark


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## Markw (May 15, 2009)

Yes, I brought it back.  The torturous thread that never got anywhere, but I have another question.  I never ended up getting the Hoya filter, and now Im looking for another filter.  I was wondering whether I should get the 

Opteka HD2 R72 720nm IR filter: [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Opteka-720nm-Infrared-X-Ray-Filter/dp/B000MD8XKO/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1242442347&sr=1-2]Amazon.com: Opteka HD² 62mm R72 720nm Infrared X-Ray IR Filter: Electronics[/ame]

or will this work?
NEW 62mm IR Infrared 950nm Standard Filter DSLR F4T - eBay (item 140320065796 end time May-17-09 23:57:37 PDT)

Thanks.  
Mark


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## ann (May 16, 2009)

your not comparing apples to apples here

i am not familar with the maker of these filters, but they are very different in the cut range.


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## Markw (May 16, 2009)

Which one of these get me closer to this: LifePixel Digital Camera Infrared IR Conversion. Sample infrared photographs, page 4. ? After PP..or corse.

Mark


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## ann (May 17, 2009)

i would opt for the 72 filter.

however, the camera type (sensor) along with the filter and of course the pp work influence the outcome. it is more than just a mouse click away.

lifepixel as a basic tutorial on line . or try joseph levy's website. he has a step by step description of pp. another tutorial will be mark johnson's site

http://www.msjphotography.com/

http://www.pbase.com/catson/image/29447046

these links should get you to the above mentioned sites.


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## Markw (May 18, 2009)

Thanks.  And can I say, wow.  1,002 views on this thread.  Insane.  I think I will go for the Opteka HD2 filter, not too sure yet though.

Mark


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