# What are YOUR rates? - Family & Event Photographers



## SayGee (Oct 20, 2011)

What are YOUR rates and what services do you provide to your client for that rate?  If you offer packages, what are they and how much are they?

*Please respond as you would to a potential client* who is looking for you to take Fall photos of their family.  Some of just the kids, some everyone, some individual.  They're not interested in wardrobe changes, hair or makeup.  They would like them taken at their home or someplace nearby to them.  The clients aren't yet sure how many of each they will want and what sizes.  The wife wants a large family photo to give to her parents as a gift, but the husband wants to decide later based on both cost and photo itself.   They have a friend who is interested in how much it would cost to have you take photos at a family birthday party.  They, the family for fall photos, might be interested in having you do the same for them too.

Assume that you are, in fact, available at the client's requested time.

What do YOU charge and for what services/packages?


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## camz (Oct 20, 2011)

Photography has to be the lowest cost capital business in the world.  I'm seeing more of these threads everyday...

OP do a market study in your area - a more accurate data set.  Members here are from all over.


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## camz (Oct 20, 2011)

Ok to help you out. Call the local photographers in your area who you share the same market with and ask them like you asked above(Act like a customer). That's probably your best starting point for pricing.


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## skieur (Oct 20, 2011)

You don"t have sufficient information to determine cost/price.  As photographer I determine wardrobe, hair and make-up etc. based on what I see of the clients. Location is determined by the photographer based on what the clients wish to convey through the photos.  It is a creative decision.  If the clients are not sure how many of each they want or what sizes, then I would load the price toward the session rather than prints to ensure that you are not wasting your time for only a few prints.  You need to know where the photos are "going" to determine the level of "formality" or "casualness" in wardrobe, posing and location.

Parties are even more difficult for some photographers in that you need to pick up some natural, candid shots during the course of the party which requires excellent timing and location, as well as perhaps some quick poses, if necessary.  Location becomes important for the photographer and will need to be scouted beforehand.

You need to list, what equipment you will need, planning time in determining wardrobe and minor hair adjustments, locations, and a clearer ideas from your clients as to the quantity and type of photos they wish.  Then calculate your time, mileage, shooting and editing expenses, build in some profit and make that your session fee so that you come out ahead, irrespective of prints ordered.  Add time cost, materials, etc. and profit to your print costs to your client as well.  

All of this is assuming that you can provide professional quality results to your clients.

skieur


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## 2WheelPhoto (Oct 20, 2011)

camz said:


> *Photography has to be the lowest cost capital business *in the world.  I'm seeing more of these threads everyday...
> 
> OP do a market study in your area - a more accurate data set.  Members here are from all over.



You know how it is, spend a grand at BestBuy and open a free facebook page and you're in bizness


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## camz (Oct 20, 2011)

2WheelPhoto said:


> camz said:
> 
> 
> > *Photography has to be the lowest cost capital business *in the world. I'm seeing more of these threads everyday...
> ...



Unfortunately that misconception is going to come around a bite these people in the ass.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Oct 20, 2011)

Indeed it is


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## e.rose (Oct 20, 2011)

$3,000

30 minutes of shooting
1 8x10
2 5x7
1 sheet of wallets


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## SayGee (Oct 20, 2011)

camz said:


> Ok to help you out. Call the local photographers in your area who you share the same market with and ask them like you asked above(Act like a customer). That's probably your best starting point for pricing.



Camz, while your suggestion of calling local photographers is not without it's merits, I intentionally said:




SayGee said:


> *Please respond as you would to a potential client*




If you don't want to answer, that's your prerogative.  But then please don't post a reply.   Like I said, your suggestion is not without it's merits - but as an isolated answer, you're devaluing my post.  I may not have been in the income producing workforce in many years, but I am highly educated and have a significant amount of sales and business experience. 


It's quite foolish for you or anyone else to dismiss my question in thinking your 'real answer', and other people's 'real answer' would be of no value unless our geography matched.


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## camz (Oct 20, 2011)

Funny how I thought I was stirring you in the right direction here. Ok tell me this, how will you deal with varied amount of geographical pricing samples from around the world and derive them to remain competetive within your area? How is that value added to *your* pricing?

I went through the same questions you did about 11 years ago. If you're talking about pricing, in order for you to remain competetive as a photographer, your most accurate market study will be your local competition. This is a referral business and most is done through word of mouth in result it is the local market that will drive your retail revenue. 

I wasn't devaluing you, I was trying to help. And comments of people starting photography business with a misconception is 100% true but was not directed to you.


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## SayGee (Oct 20, 2011)

e.rose said:


> $3,000
> 
> 30 minutes of shooting
> 1 8x10
> ...



Camz, see the reply from e.rose 

She's from Allentown, PA - an area with a median income for a family of around $38,000 

She made sure to use the comma when typing $3000 - so it was an intentional answer and not a typo. She's either omitting some critical information from her response, isn't really answering what she would charge a family for fall photos, or she's decided to just post an answer thinking anyone foolish enough to believe her deserves her answer.


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## camz (Oct 20, 2011)

Hey who am I to question her pricing. 

Believe me op what you seek here is actually around the corner from where you are.


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## e.rose (Oct 20, 2011)

camz said:


> Hey who am I to question her pricing.


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## SayGee (Oct 20, 2011)

camz said:


> Ok tell me this, how will you deal with varied amount of geographical pricing samples from around the world and derive them to remain competetive within your area? How is that value added to *your* pricing?.......
> 
> in order for you to remain competetive as a photographer, your most accurate market study will be your local competition.






SayGee said:


> e.rose said:
> 
> 
> > $3,000
> ...



People choose a photographer because they like the photographer.  A major factor in determining pricing is what people are willing (and able) to pay.   If $65 for a woman's hairstyle and cut is on the upper mid-range to higher-end in your area, you're not being paid $3,000 for 30 minutes of shooting and giving an 8x10, 2 5x7 and 1 sheet of wallets  

Camz, if given honest answers and enough answers, it's not too hard to use the sampling and apply it one's own geography.


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## CCericola (Oct 20, 2011)

SayGee,

Not many reputable professionals are going to give you sample quotes on an open, google searchable, forum. And because this is an open forum members are from all around the world. The suggestion to call other photographers as a client is a much more effective use of your time and energy. Work smarter not harder.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Oct 20, 2011)

"Dear competing photographers, what do I need to charge to compete with or undercut you? Errrrr...I meant what do you charge?"

^^^^^^^^^great business plan right there?


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## tirediron (Oct 20, 2011)

SayGee said:


> What do YOU charge and for what services/packages?


$100/hour.  As requested by the client within the bounds of good taste and the Criminal Code of Canada.


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## SayGee (Oct 20, 2011)

CCericola said:


> SayGee,
> 
> Not many reputable professionals are going to give you sample quotes on an open, google searchable, forum. And because this is an open forum members are from all around the world. The suggestion to call other photographers as a client is a much more effective use of your time and energy. Work smarter not harder.



Christina, I must say, that I have a lot of respect for both your answers and your candor.  

While obviously I would rather have the sample quotes and would greatly appreciate them, I knew that your answer is the real reason why someone wouldn't give it.  It's unfortunate, though, because the sharing of that information would be valuable to both emerging and seasoned photographers alike - and time efficient too.  But I do understand your answer, and had already begun the suggested approach.  While I'm not in your direct area,  the demographics of your area and mine are very similar.


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## Ballistics (Oct 20, 2011)

Where I live (long island NY), photographers will not give you an estimate over the phone. You have to physically be in their presence for their pricing. Having said that, you can easily google this question and come up with results.


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## camz (Oct 20, 2011)

e.rose said:


> Originally Posted by *camz*
> 
> 
> 
> ...







SayGee said:


> Camz, if given honest answers and enough answers, it's not too hard to use the sampling and apply it one's own geography.



SayGee even with all the samples in the world you're still going to have to go back to your control which is going to be the pricing within your area. 

Ok now I wana here your explanation...what is the advantage of taking a bigger sample from all over rather then sampling locally. How would you derive it?


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## SayGee (Oct 20, 2011)

Ballistics said:


> Where I live (long island NY), photographers will not give you an estimate over the phone. You have to physically be in their presence for their pricing. Having said that, you can easily google this question and come up with results.



DING!! 
 Give this Forum Member a Ronnie's Tastemaster and an Eddie's Pizza!


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## Sw1tchFX (Oct 20, 2011)

My clients pay $8,000 for me just to show up with a camera...it goes skyyyy hiiiigghhhh after that!


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## gsgary (Oct 21, 2011)

SayGee said:


> e.rose said:
> 
> 
> > $3,000
> ...




She was taking the piss


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## mangtarn (Oct 21, 2011)

SayGee said:


> If you don't want to answer, that's your prerogative.  But then please don't post a reply.   Like I said, your suggestion is not without it's merits - but as an isolated answer, you're devaluing my post.  I may not have been in the income producing workforce in many years, but I am highly educated and have a significant amount of sales and business experience.


There sure has been a lot of angry new members raging on the forum lately.


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## imagemaker46 (Oct 21, 2011)

I have been asked this question more times than I can remember, and in some cases I would tell "amateur, soon to be turning pro" photographers what I charge and in some of those cases I found out that they have gone around my back and offered less to my clients, my clients know my work, and appreciate it, so I wasn't concerned about them. I don't tell other photographers what I charge, I know what some pros are charging in other cities, and depending on the city they can charge between 50%-100% more.

I do searches on photographers in my area, I check their web sites and look at their pricing, obviously the ones that don't put up any pricing don't help me.  Most of them aren't in my field of photography, but I still like to know.  I look to see how long they have been working as photographers as well. I find it amusing that some will state they have been shooting for almost 2 years and are offering competitive rates, the same rates as someone that has been shooting for 20 years, who would I go with as potential client.

You have to decide where you will fit into the market based on your experience and skills as a photographer, should you as a new "pro" be charging the same as someone that has spent years working at it?


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## KmH (Oct 21, 2011)

Of course, without knowing a photographer's target market demographic, CODB, and reputation, whatever their rates/prices are has no context.


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## tirediron (Oct 21, 2011)

gsgary said:


> SayGee said:
> 
> 
> > e.rose said:
> ...


Why do people always take it rather than leave it???


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## camz (Oct 21, 2011)

Saygee I hope we didn't drive you off dear. I pulled out a template from our business plan for pricing comparatives within the local area. In order to come up with a list of competitors within our market, a scope for our targeted clients had to be initially defined as such - sample only,e.g. : *Saygee photography's ideal targeted clients will be in their 20's and 30's, modern, fun/outgoing and family oriented*. From this scope we looked around a certain vicinity where COG(Cost Of Goods) meets a certain range(Sorry for the fancy mancy words - it will help you when you do your research later). Within that range we looked at photographers that had similar characteristics and specifically boiled it down to shooting style(very tough to categorize), customer demographics and pricing. In order to dive deeper into their world and gather data, I had to pretend I was an inquiring customer; in a few instances, I actually ended being a paying client in order to get what we needed for a specific breakdown. Here's an example of the chart formulated from our little CSI:


*Your Business*
*Competition 1*
*Competition 2*
*Competition 3*
*Competition 4*
*Competition 5*
*LOCATION*
San Leandro
San Francisco
Daly City
Pacifica
San Francisco
*WEDDING PRICE RANGE*
$4500 w/ album
$4950+
$3000+
$3000, $4500 w/ album
$3500, $4500 w/ album
*PRODUCTS*
Albums, Hi-Res Files
Albums, Hi-Res Files
Albums, Hi-Res Files
Albums, Hi-Res Files
Albums, Hi-Res Files
*BRANDING*
Good
Very Solid
Good
Good
Very Solid
*MARKETING*
Good
Very Solid
Good
Good
Very Solid
*QUALITY*
Good
Very Solid
Good
Good
Good
*SERVICE*
Good
Very Solid
Good
Good
Good
*RELIABILITY*
Good
Very Solid
Good
Good
Very Solid
*STABILITY*
Good
Very Solid
Good
Good
Very Solid
*APPEARANCE*
Good
Very Solid
Good
Good
Very Solid
*ADVERTISING*
Good
Very Solid
Good
Good
Very Solid
*IMAGE*
Good
Very Solid
Good
Good
Very Solid
*COMPANY REPUTATION*
Good
Very Solid
Good
Good
Very Solid
*EXPERTISE*
Good
Very Solid
Good
Good
Good







Except for the pricing and product, competitor image like customer service, expertise, reputation etc, these were all attribute data so it took some time in defining. It wasn't necessary in our behalf but I wanted a break down to where I know I can be ahead of my competition within the subcategory scope I defined above, shooting style(very tough to categorize), customer demographics and pricing. With a more specific break down you will be more precise in the decisions moves you make. Kinda like chess vs checkers 

Below is a pricelist template we also used sampled at $100hr for labor. Within our competitors the price mark-up was 3x - 10x of COG(Cost Of Goods). We chose a multiple no greater then 5.5(Anything above would just be uncivilized..lol). So what does this mean, if you the photographer were to purchase an album from your supplier whcc and they charged you $100 bucks, based on your mark-up of 5, you would sell it to your client for $500 material cost. It doesn't stop there, you would also need to factor in the hourly rate of labor into account when charging the client. So if you worked on the album for 5 hours
(at an hourly rate of $100) and the album cost you $100 the formula would be [(5*Hourly Rate COG) + (5*Album Cost COG)] = [(5*100) + (5*100)] = $1,000 for the album. This applies to any sort of labor that you perform for the company. Thinking this way will remind you how valuable your time really is...even simple tasks like driving to the venue.

Here's the markup chart: 


*MARKUP GUIDE*
*DESCRIPTION*
*COGS*
*3*
*3.5*
*4*
*4.5*
*5*
*5.5*
*1-hour Labor*
*100.00 *
300.00
350.00
400.00
450.00
500.00
550.00
*2-hour Labor*
*200.00 *
600.00
700.00
800.00
900.00
1,000.00
1,100.00
*4-hour Labor*
*400.00 *
1,200.00
1,400.00
1,600.00
1,800.00
2,000.00
2,200.00
*6-hour Labor*
*600.00 *
1,800.00
2,100.00
2,400.00
2,700.00
3,000.00
3,300.00
*8-hour Labor*
*800.00 *
2,400.00
2,800.00
3,200.00
3,600.00
4,000.00
4,400.00
*10-hour Labor*
*1,000.00 *
3,000.00
3,500.00
4,000.00
4,500.00
5,000.00
5,500.00
*12-hour Labor*
*1,200.00 *
3,600.00
4,200.00
4,800.00
5,400.00
6,000.00
6,600.00
*14-hour Labor*
*1,400.00 *
4,200.00
4,900.00
5,600.00
6,300.00
7,000.00
7,700.00
*16-hour Labor*
*1,600.00 *
4,800.00
5,600.00
6,400.00
7,200.00
8,000.00
8,800.00
*Album 1*
*125.33 *
375.99
1,400.00
1,600.00
1,800.00
2,000.00
2,200.00
*Album 2*
*155.72 *
467.16
545.02
622.88
700.74
778.60
856.46
*Album 3*
*188.41 *
565.23
659.44
753.64
847.85
942.05
1,036.26
*Album 4*
*221.11 *
663.33
773.89
884.44
995.00
1,105.55
1,216.11
*Album 5*
*253.80 *
761.40
888.30
1,015.20
1,142.10
1,269.00
1,395.90
*Album 1 Special Cover*
*163.89 *
491.67
573.62
655.56
737.51
819.45
901.40
*Album 2 Special Cover*
*210.21 *
630.63
735.74
840.84
945.95
1,051.05
1,156.16
*Album 3 Special Cover*
*256.53 *
769.59
897.86
1,026.12
1,154.39
1,282.65
1,410.92
*Album 4 Special Cover*
*302.84 *
908.52
1,059.94
1,211.36
1,362.78
1,514.20
1,665.62
*Album 5 Special Cover*
*349.16 *
1,047.48
1,222.06
1,396.64
1,571.22
1,745.80
1,920.38
*8x10 BW*
*43.76 *
131.28
153.16
175.04
196.92
218.80
240.68
*8x10 Colored*
*43.76 *
131.28
153.16
175.04
196.92
218.80
240.68







This is a very high level summary but I hope it helps you with your data gathering for price


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