# NEED HELP! wedding event low light with just candles



## monkeypoo78 (Dec 13, 2012)

I have a wedding that I have to take pictures at. And at the wedding the only light that will be on will be candles. Can I get some advice about this problem?


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## tirediron (Dec 13, 2012)

Yep.  Leave town.


What gear & experience do you have?


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## ph0enix (Dec 13, 2012)

Listen to tirediron's advice (for your own good). Weddings and beginner photographers don't mix ...unless you want to be sued for everything you've got and/or potentially ruin some friendships.


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## Robin_Usagani (Dec 13, 2012)

Canon 5DIII with with lens that is f/2.8 or faster.


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## monkeypoo78 (Dec 13, 2012)

I have done wedding before and i am fine with taking pictures and everything. but I never had to take pictures with just candles. I mean there probably will have some other lights on. i just need a general idea. I have canon 60D with 24-70mm lens and a 580EX external flash.


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## Robin_Usagani (Dec 13, 2012)

What is the point of having a peaceful ceremony with candles and you blast them with flash?  This is really when you need to shoot it with no flash.  Just use high ISO, wide aperture and slower shutter (brace your camera against something).  Seriously.. I have shot at 1/10 shutter with my 135mm and get amazing result.  Make sure you brace the lens!


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## KmH (Dec 13, 2012)

The top 5 cameras for low-light ISO performacne are all Nikon's. DxOMark - Camera Sensor Ratings

The Canon 5D MK III comes in at #9. The Canon 1Dx is #6.
The Canon 60D is #54.


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## monkeypoo78 (Dec 13, 2012)

I watch some videos on low lighting and they told me not to use flash but to do the exact same thing as you said. I am just new to photography generally. I am a college student so its hard for me to learn on the side from college classes.


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## monkeypoo78 (Dec 13, 2012)

And should I use manual? How low for the shutter speed? and how wide for the aperture?


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## PinkDoor (Dec 13, 2012)

monkeypoo78 said:


> I have done wedding before and i am fine with taking pictures and everything. but I never had to take pictures with just candles. I mean there probably will have some other lights on. i just need a general idea. I have canon 60D with 24-70mm lens and a 580EX external flash.





monkeypoo78 said:


> I watch some videos on low lighting and they told me not to use flash but to do the exact same thing as you said. I am just new to photography generally. I am a college student so its hard for me to learn on the side from college classes.



Which is it?  New to photography or experienced shooter?  I would pass on this gig, there are no do-overs with weddings.


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## dewey (Dec 13, 2012)

The first wedding you do with candle light is always a nerve wracking experience.  My advice is to do a trial run at the venue with candle light only.  I bet the pastor / sales folks / etc would give you 15 mins if you bring your own candles.  It sounds to me like it's important for you to understand ahead of time what the lighting will be.

Leaving town is a close second.


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## monkeypoo78 (Dec 13, 2012)

Kphipps said:


> Robin _U couldn't have said it better! Do everything he just said
> you don't want to ruin the mood in the photograph. I had to shoot a wedding ceremony in a very dim, low light church and I was a little worried. I did exactly what Robin_U did and they turned out to be my favorite shots. Plus you always edit them after anyways. You don't want to be blasting everyone with the flash. The ony time I would use the flash is for dancing and I would be very selective (don't want to blind them).
> 
> Good luck!



I tried everything he said with my little sister. With candles and the lights off. The picture came out fine. It's just I never use manuel and i am trying to work with manuel more then auto.


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## kathyt (Dec 13, 2012)

I am an experienced wedding photographer and low lighting is HARD even for us. We also have the upper hand because we have cameras that can handle a super high ISO and amazing lenses that are also great in low light. If you add in flash here you are going to be changing the mood of the ceremony, and that is not what you want to do here. This is WAY beyond your level of experience and I would not put yourself at risk here. Robin_Usagani just shared his own experience on another thread about the horrible result he had with his OWN wedding photographer. Don't be that guy!


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## monkeypoo78 (Dec 13, 2012)

dewey said:


> The first wedding you do with candle light is always a nerve wracking experience.  My advice is to do a trial run at the venue with candle light only.  I bet the pastor / sales folks / etc would give you 15 mins if you bring your own candles.  It sounds to me like it's important for you to understand ahead of time what the lighting will be.
> 
> Leaving town is a close second.



I am a Eagle Scout and I will never quit at anything. It may take me a long time to get things right but I wont ever quit at something that i love so much


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## monkeypoo78 (Dec 13, 2012)

kathythorson said:


> I am an experienced wedding photographer and low lighting is HARD even for us. We also have the upper hand because we have cameras that can handle a super high ISO and amazing lenses that are also great in low light. If you add in flash here you are going to be changing the mood of the ceremony, and that is not what you want to do here. This is WAY beyond your level of experience and I would not put yourself at risk here. Robin_Usagani just shared his own experience on another thread about the horrible result he had with his OWN wedding photographer. Don't be that guy!



I saw the photos that he had done during the wedding. I explained to my clients about my situation. There original photographer canceled on them at the last second. I told them that i am not experience that well in low light photography. And they said as long as I am there taking photos.


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## kathyt (Dec 13, 2012)

monkeypoo78 said:


> kathythorson said:
> 
> 
> > I am an experienced wedding photographer and low lighting is HARD even for us. We also have the upper hand because we have cameras that can handle a super high ISO and amazing lenses that are also great in low light. If you add in flash here you are going to be changing the mood of the ceremony, and that is not what you want to do here. This is WAY beyond your level of experience and I would not put yourself at risk here. Robin_Usagani just shared his own experience on another thread about the horrible result he had with his OWN wedding photographer. Don't be that guy!
> ...



Well anyone could be there taking photos. Hey, my 4 year old is even pretty good with my old point and shoot. The quality of the images is the key here. If they have no expectations of high quality, professional images that they will look at 50 years from now, then hey go for it. Otherwise, let them hire someone with experience. You could always still shoot the event for practice, which you should be doing first anyways, and then the couple will still get great wedding images. Win, win!


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## bratkinson (Dec 14, 2012)

I moved from a 60D to a 5D3 just 3 weeks ago for 2 reasons...drop dead focusing and exceptionally good high ISO ability. I do much of my photography in church and at church functions and ISO 2400 on the 60D was too noisy for me, although Lightroom and PS Elements 10 can do wonders. On the 5D3, ISO 2500 is nearly noise free, and even at ISO 10000, the noise is tolerably corrected in Lightroom. Depending on how much lead time you have to the wedding to learn a 5D3, if you can, I'd suggest you rent one. Keep the 60D handy as a backup or with a different lens on it.

As for lenses, f2.8 is likely adequate, but f2.0 and faster is better. This past Sunday, I was shooting primarily with my 85mm f1.8 and 135 f2L from wide open to f5.6, ISO 2500, 1/60-1/160, in low light, or a single spotlight. With candle light only, I'd probably start one more notch faster on the ISO and a notch or two slower on the shutter speed to keep the depth of field I wanted.

And if not stated strongly enough previously...=NO= flash during the ceremony!

PS...I'd also like to suggest bring more candles!


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## ph0enix (Dec 14, 2012)

monkeypoo78 said:


> I am just new to photography generally.



...hence the original advice.  People tend to get really upset when you ruin their wedding photos.  As mentioned above, there no way to re-shoot if you screw up.  You shouldn't be shooting weddings until you learn a LOT more about photography.  You're asking for trouble.


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## rlemert (Dec 14, 2012)

monkeypoo78 said:


> I am a Eagle Scout and I will never quit at anything. *It may take me a long time to get things right* but I wont ever quit at something that i love so much



  An Eagle Scout should also be able to recognize their own limitations. And while I admire your perserverence you *don't *have "a long time" to get ready for this event. Is it really fair to the couple that your practice is their once-in-a-lifetime event?


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## The_Traveler (Dec 14, 2012)

monkeypoo78 said:


> And should I use manual? How low for the shutter speed? and how wide for the aperture?



If you don't know this, I think that the chances of less than optimal results results approaches 90%.


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## cgipson1 (Dec 14, 2012)

If I were you, I would rent a Nikon D600 and a 50mm 1.4 lens..... and go for it. But with the equipment you have? Good luck!


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## monkeypoo78 (Dec 14, 2012)

So I just got of the phone with my client and they talk to me more about the lighting during the ceremony. What they did is they have led lights that imput alot of light in the room. Tomorrow i am going over there to do some practice shot with all the lighting.


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## pixmedic (Dec 14, 2012)

Weddings are stressful in general to shoot.  Weddings with poor light conditions 10 times so.  The clients may SAY they just want someone there shooting, and they may SAY they understand your limitations and experience level...... But that all goes out the window if they arent extremely pleased with their once in a lifetime wedding photos.


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## texkam (Dec 14, 2012)

You should explain to the client that you have neither the equipment nor the expertise to properly shoot this wedding. Now, if all parties involved understand and agree that this could turn out disastrous (get it in writing) and you are OK with the possible consequences that may still ensue then go for it. Manual, high ISO, fast glass and a steady camera. And if you take $$$, you must also make Uncle Sam happy. Good luck.


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## pixmedic (Dec 14, 2012)

If you have a good tripod,  it will be your best friend for a low lit venue.


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## Tony S (Dec 14, 2012)

It's not quitting if it's something you are not up to doing yet.  It takes skill and knowledge to be able to succesfully shoot in low light and be able to get repeat keepers.  You may get lucky and get a shot or two, but overall you are looking at being able to get more than that.  Take some time to practice low light shooting.  Your sensor may give you good low light performance, your lens may shoot wide open to let in more light, but without practicing you may be in for a very rude surprise when you suddenly find your auto focus sucks and won't lock on.  Are you ready to adapt for the troubles you will have?  What if your camera goes into the dreaded "error 99" mode, what then? Memroy card failure?  Are you ready with a backup plan?


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## Mully (Dec 14, 2012)

Call the venue ahead and ask if there is any overhead lighting that can be kept on low ..... they may have to do that anyway for ins reasons.


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## camz (Dec 14, 2012)

monkeypoo78 said:


> So I just got of the phone with my client and they talk to me more about the lighting during the ceremony. What they did is they have led lights that imput alot of light in the room. *Tomorrow i am going over there to do some practice shot with all the lighting*.



^^^^ This is key. You have to know the level you and you're equipment are in provided the environment. I was hesitant to give you advice there as you were asking us about camera settings without even knowing what you're up against. Take a test shot and post it here - that would probably be most helpful for you. 

During your practice shots, play along with combinations of the widest aperture, slowest shutter possible and the highest usable ISO and that should tell us the worst case scenario.


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## dewey (Dec 14, 2012)

rlemert said:


> monkeypoo78 said:
> 
> 
> > I am a Eagle Scout and I will never quit at anything. *It may take me a long time to get things right* but I wont ever quit at something that i love so much
> ...



*EXACTLY*.  It's worth another time: know your own limitations.  I never said you should give up anything at all.  I was actually suggesting ways for you to improve.

Being an Eagle Scout has nothing to do with this.  You need to know your limitations or you're going to ruin your name before you get off the ground.

You're on the right track with practicing - just be sure the client knows you're learning too and you'll be good.


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## rexbobcat (Dec 14, 2012)

*shudders*

I'm sorry to say that regardless of the technique you use, you're probably going to have a REALLY tough time getting really useable photos in that condition with that camera. I mean, I hesitate using anything over 1600 on my 60D if I'm looking for clean images,  and with candle light and even at f/1.4 I have a feeling I would be using 3200-6400 just to get 1/10 of a second. 

And at f/2.8...

*shudders*

Also; the autofocus will probably have a pretty tough time as well.


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## orljustin (Dec 14, 2012)

pixmedic said:


> If you have a good tripod,  it will be your best friend for a low lit venue.


A tripod means nothing when people are moving around.Wide open, 1/60, iso 1600.


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## pixmedic (Dec 14, 2012)

orljustin said:


> A tripod means nothing when people are moving around.Wide open, 1/60, iso 1600.



Except for the most important wedding shots.  The formal portraits, bride and groom,  wedding party.  The ring exchange,  the kiss...plenty of VERY important shots that would benefit from tripod use.


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## John27 (Dec 14, 2012)

As some others have said, rent!

I don't know if you are charging or not, but if I were you I wouldn't charge anything, you just can't provide professional level results.

Hey, my wife and I had a friend shoot our wedding for free.  We were both in college, both of the breadwinners in each of our families had recently been laid off, there just wasn't any money for a pro photographer.  The pictures we have are dark, grainy, many out of focus.  But, it's alright, we expected that, and we're happy with it.  The memories, the people, the packed church... that meant more than any ol' pictures.  But on the high likelihood that your clients are not like my wife and I were then, you aren't gonna get out of this one alive.

My suggestion?  Re-explain to them that the pictures will NOT be professional quality.  THEN, rather than charging them, just ask them to rent you a camera and some lenses.  For a 3 day rental at one of the online places, you could get a 5DIII or Nikon D600 or something in that range for a couple hundred bucks (that is PEANUTS to have someone shoot your wedding).  That, coupled with the fastest glass you can get (like a 50 f/1.2 if the area is small enough), and a high ISO, and you should be able to get some acceptable shots.  

Me, personally?  I would never do a wedding.  Never ever.  I've done portraits for family members, sporting events for my little sister, etc. etc.  Never for pay though, but I would never, not even for free, do a wedding.  Whether it's a stranger or your best friend, they simply do NOT understand how poor 'poor' is when you tell them they will be poor quality, and they will be disappointed.  Your reputation is at stake, as it friendships and other connections, and if you aren't insured, there's a good chance your assets are at stake here too.  I read somewhere that wedding photographers are among the most sued professionals in the US.  

In the end you are the adult that needs to make the decision, but you've got some fantastic pros up above, and some newbie hobby shooters like myself, all telling you the same thing... this is a huge challenge.  Not a challenge like trying to shoot wildlife for the first time, a challenge where if you fail, real people other than you could be genuinely hurt by what happens.

If you decide to go at it, I wish you luck, but consider upgrading your equipment! (Renting)  Wedding photographers and sports photographers use some of the most high end gear out there.  Most wedding photographers I know wouldn't dream of setting foot in a wedding without 2 or more very high end professional camera bodies, several lenses, several batteries, and perhaps even another shooter who takes a seperate car juuust in case they get in an accident on the way to the wedding!

Also, if you decide to rent, A) Don't skimp on the insurance, it's a few bucks more, but you don't want to have to pay full replacement value on that gear!  And B) Make sure you rent extra batteries, find out if it includes a charger (if not, rent one), and get some CF cards.  Your pro level bodies will use CF cards, not SD cards like the 60D.  On BorrowLenses and some others, you can rent CF cards on the cheap.  Just rent a few with the camera.  Definitely get more than one, even if you get bigger ones, you'd hate to have the camera, be a day away from the wedding, and find out the card is a dud.  I'd get 5 or 6 8GB cards if I were in your shoes.  I prefer smaller cards myself, if in the unlikely event that one fails between the camera and the computer, you're out less pictures.

Also, have a plan on backing up those images.  Don't lose them.  In my humble opinion, you should use several smaller CF cards, copy them to your PC when you are done, THEN copy them to some sort of seperate backup media, all before working on them.

You are also probably going to need to shoot manual on this one.  Just keep the aperture at the lowest possible setting, adjust the ISO way up, and adjust the shutter as needed.  Ideally, you will be at 1/focal length if possible.  (So on a 50mm lens, keep the speed at 1/50 or faster).  This isn't always possible, but be aware if you go slower than that, then you are at a greater risk of motion blur.


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## Derrel (Dec 14, 2012)

From this Wednesday night, where I was a guest at an evening wedding...here are some frames that I shot--lighted by candlelight...ugh...how very tricky!!! Trust me...you do NOT wanna' do an entire wedding by candlelight. Ever. Never ever. Ever!!! It's very limiting in what you can actually frame up and shoot.
1)

24mm f/2.8 lens at f/7.1 at 1/13 second, ISO 320

2)
24mm f/2.8 lens at f/4, 1/13 second, ISO 1,000. WB deliberately left "at 5,000 degrees Kelvin"

3)
24mm f/2.8 lens at f/2.8, 1/13 second, ISO 1,000, full-frame Nikon. For me, the biggest question whenever shooting by candlelight is, "How warm do I want the shots to look? Do I want to strive for color-correct? Or do I want things to look very,very warm and romantic?" My answer is almost always the latter--I prefer a VERY overly-warm, almost firelight look...but some people like a cooler rendering, and that's fine too.

4)
Same frame as above, but B&W export in Lightroom. These are basically just as-shot, but with a bit of Fill Light slider added to bring the shadows "up" a wee bit.


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## monkeypoo78 (Dec 16, 2012)

The wedding went well . got some great photos. one of my lens wouldnt work for some reason. good thing i had my back up.


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## texkam (Dec 16, 2012)

pics?


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## pixmedic (Dec 16, 2012)

View attachment 28766


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## nycphotography (Dec 16, 2012)

Hmmm.  If you've shot weddings before then consider this...

*Sell the client on your providing a mostly "classic b&w  look" in advance, with some color shots included if and when  appropriate.*
Rent a D800, and the two workhorse f2.8 AIS zooms (35-70 and 80-200).
Shoot 3200+ iso.

Why?  Because a) the D800 shoots iso3200 better then a D90 or 60D shoots 200iso.  I've seen it with a D700 and couldn't believe my eyes.  And the D800 is (supposedly) even better.  You can probably shoot 12800.  And for b&w with 36mp, you can shoot the max ISO.  And selling classic b&w means you can take shots with "too much noise"... and artfully add MORE noise and make them really elegant in b&w.  In color they just get dreadful.  But in b&w you can work for the TMAX3200 look.

PRACTICE in those lighting conditions w/ similar equipment and some friends or models.

See if you can find some "electric candles" that can provide intimate light.  
Flameless Battery Candle With Glowing wick by Candle Impressions 4 inch champagne - Amazon.com
You can carry them around and place (or have someone hold) them strategically when needed.

You can also try some LED fills using flashlight sticks such as these 
Amazon.com: Life Gear 4 in 1 LED Glow Stick Flashlight, Red: Home Improvement
or these
E-Z Red PCLED6 Pocket LED Light Stick : Amazon.com : Automotive

But the color balance will be hell mixed w/ candlelight... thus the b&w fallback for shots that get wonky color blends.

This is a shoot that will probably cost you more than you will make... but while you'll likely lose money, you'll learn more on this one than anywhere else... not just shooting, but preparing an posting as well.

And the more think about it... make sure the client understands that you'll have to shoot a more informal, candid style (the call it photojournalist wedding style) and probably won't get the formal group shots due to the low light and lack of flash.


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## nycphotography (Dec 16, 2012)

DOH, that's what happens when I reply while I'm still on the first page.  

Who asks for advice TWO DAYS before a wedding shoot?!?!  These things are planned months in advance.


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