# Sound Healing, does it really heal?



## tecboy (Jun 9, 2017)

I saw an episode of Bill Nye, Saves the World.  So bizarre!  I did an online research, and they offer a college degree in Sound Healing.


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## waday (Jun 9, 2017)

Do they have scientific, peer-reviewed research with results indicating sound healing works?


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## table1349 (Jun 9, 2017)

Give it a try and see.


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## tecboy (Jun 9, 2017)

gryphonslair99 said:


> Give it a try and see.



You first.


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## table1349 (Jun 9, 2017)

I'm not the on that cares.


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## tecboy (Jun 9, 2017)

waday said:


> Do they have scientific, peer-reviewed research with results indicating sound healing works?



According to Bill Nye, there is no scientific evidence.


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## waday (Jun 9, 2017)

tecboy said:


> waday said:
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If there's no scientific evidence, there's your answer.


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## tecboy (Jun 9, 2017)

waday said:


> tecboy said:
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They claim to heal cancers.


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## waday (Jun 9, 2017)

tecboy said:


> waday said:
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Do they have scientific, peer-reviewed research with results indicating they cure cancer?


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## tecboy (Jun 9, 2017)

It's interesting when I saw the episode.  I thought this person who making noise was an actor.  Not until I researched online.  This guy is for real.  I have never heard of sound healing before.


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## Braineack (Jun 9, 2017)




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## waday (Jun 9, 2017)

Ah, yes, when you take memes for their face value and don't bother detail checking anything. I have seen that meme going around.

You may not know, if you choose to only get your news from memes, but Bill Nye worked as an engineer for over 30 years, has several patents, is a science educator, and is the head of the Planetary Society.


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## Braineack (Jun 9, 2017)

waday said:


> Ah, yes, when you take memes for their face value and don't bother detail checking anything. I have seen that meme going around.



is it wrong?

his patents include: filling a ziploc bag with water and ballet shoes...

his current position on biology and genetics would make me question any and all medical advice from him.


seems like his tv show (created to make profits, not advancements in science) was debunking it; so that's good.  But he's just like these TV chefs you see all the time.  Sure they can cook, but their first priority is being on TV and being famous.  Just like "Chef" Robert Irvine has his own day-time talk show.


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## vintagesnaps (Jun 9, 2017)

I thought this was going to be about something like music therapy, which seems to help with relaxation or be soothing, etc, not some guy yelling at someone's stomach. Here's an article about it, Nye's show is apparently debunking what's called 'pseudoscience'. The sound 'therapy' uh, school (and I think that's using the term loosely) sounds like a load of bs. There's no accreditation, they're not authorized to issue degrees, it's just some online 'classes' with so called 'instructors'. 
http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/2017/04/20/bill-nye-saves-the-world-netflix/1006252

I think sound waves been used for some scientific purposes (what am I thinking of, sonar??) but not just yelling at a 'patient/client' 's body parts. Go watch a physics lecture, I managed to avoid that in school, chemistry was enough of one disaster after another!


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## waday (Jun 9, 2017)

Braineack said:


> is it wrong?


Yes.

It says that Bill Nye is not an actual scientist, while saying that Dolph Lundgren and Dexter Holland are actual scientists. Ironically, Bill Nye was the only one of the three to make a career from his degree.

We should be celebrating the fact that all three men have chosen to have scientific backgrounds. But instead, this meme tries to pit one against another? 

How childish.


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## vintagesnaps (Jun 9, 2017)

Here ya go, watch this lecture, something about a string at both ends, that's all I can tell ya, I was lost a minute in. lol There's a reason I am not a scientist.





This one's better, apparently monkeys did something with polarizers, so us photographers ought to be able to!






Jiggle one side and generate a wave, we used to do that with jump ropes when we were kids. So this is why I worked with kids and did not go to MIT. 

This involves math..... and is too much for a Friday.


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## waday (Jun 9, 2017)

vintagesnaps said:


> Here ya go, watch this lecture, something about a string at both ends, that's all I can tell ya, I was lost a minute in. lol There's a reason I am not a scientist.


I love Dr. Walter Lewin. Look up some of his lectures on YouTube. Amazing guy!

Here's a classic:


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## tecboy (Jun 9, 2017)

waday said:


> Bill Nye worked as an engineer for over 30 years.



I don't think Bill Nye has worked for 30 years as a mechanical engineer.  When he gets to comedy in science, he switched career.


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## vintagesnaps (Jun 9, 2017)

He looks like a classic professor type guy. The other polarizer experiment I sort of get, but the professor, not so much... they didn't show any monkeys though. 

Found a NY Times article on the sound whatever thingy. It's in the fashion/style section! lol 
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/24/fashion/thursdaystyles/what's-the buzz-sound-therapy.html?_r 

As I figured knowing child development and having been thru a good bit of therapy myself after the stroke (and a frozen shoulder to add to it), if you can tell your muscles to relax i suppose putting on some soothing music couldn't hurt and might help. But otherwise... if there's no basis for some supposed 'therapy' in medicine or science, probably would be better for people to save their time and money! 

Thanks tecboy for helping me waste time and get nothing done which I didn't want to do anything anyway!


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## tecboy (Jun 9, 2017)

vintagesnaps said:


> Thanks tecboy for helping me waste time and get nothing done which I didn't want to do anything anyway!



Okay, when I first watched this episode, I thought it was a joke by Bill Nye.  Just curious on what others have to say.


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## waday (Jun 9, 2017)

tecboy said:


> I don't think Bill Nye has worked for 30 years as a mechanical engineer.  When he gets to comedy in science, he switched career.


He didn't stop working in the science field when he moved into educating the public. He worked as a consulting engineer through 2000. Then after that, helping out with the Mars Exploration Rover, etc.  

Here's his CV... Bill-Nye-CV | Aerospace | Entertainment (General)


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## vintagesnaps (Jun 9, 2017)

Which episode? the one you linked seemed to be a clip from the show where he was saying there was nothing to that guy yelling at someone's belly. 

He went to Cornell, worked for Boeing and invented something they still use on planes, so I guess he knows something scientific... I remember him starting out doing kids shows. Quite a varied career.


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## tecboy (Jun 9, 2017)

Really, you guys don't like Bill Nye?


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## vintagesnaps (Jun 9, 2017)

Haven't seen him enough to really know. Nowadays there seem to be people quick to criticize or complain about almost anything! too easy to find a place online to gripe away. Would have to look at more of his stuff.


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## tecboy (Jun 9, 2017)

vintagesnaps said:


> Haven't seen him enough to really know. Nowadays there seem to be people quick to criticize or complain about almost anything! too easy to find a place online to gripe away. Would have to look at more of his stuff.



There are plenty of youtubes criticized Bill Nye.


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## waday (Jun 9, 2017)

tecboy said:


> Really, you guys don't like Bill Nye?


I like him.

I've seen and heard enough of him, that I tend to trust his opinion. But, I still make my own opinion, of course. He's often a guest host on StarTalk, which I'm a regular listener.

When one actually listens to him speak, they understand that he doesn't claim to know all of this himself, rather through reading research.

It's too easy to just spew ad hominem attacks against him, which happens all too often. I've seen it here in this thread, as well as on FB. It's sad to see how many people see a meme and take it for absolute truth without doing any background research.


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## tecboy (Jun 9, 2017)

I actually like Bill Nye.  It is one episode that is pretty weird.  Bill seems he is trying to discredit sound healing.


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## tecboy (Jun 9, 2017)

I don't believe in Sound Healing at all.  However, I think Bill has gone a bit too far.  Still, the episode is pretty funny anyway.


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## Braineack (Jun 9, 2017)

tecboy said:


> Really, you guys don't like Bill Nye?



no, he's a TV personality who: 1. is annoying, 2. recently has disputed basic science and cares more about extreme social issues and 3. is a political pundit who wants to jail people that disagrees with him.

I never heard of his show, but these reviewers seem to love it: "Bill Nye Saves the World"  Reviews & Ratings - IMDb


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## vintagesnaps (Jun 9, 2017)

I don't see why he shouldn't discredit it if it claims to cure cancer by yelling at it. 

I thought Superman saved the world. No, I guess he just flew around the globe and turned back time. Well, close enough! lol


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## tecboy (Jun 9, 2017)

Well, it is not really curing cancer.  The woman on the gurney is a producer of the show.  She said she was very concerned that few cancer patients were stop taking medicines after the sound healing treatment.  Bill Nye is right.  Sound healing is an alternative medicine and there is no evidence to proof that.  However, I feel that Bill targeted this person and the clinic without confronting him.  Just saying things behind his back.  It's more of an investigative journalism instead of science journalism.

He is just seem judgmental.


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## table1349 (Jun 9, 2017)

Only $1.00 a bottle.  I take cash, check, credit cards and bit coins.


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## pixmedic (Jun 10, 2017)

I was always a Mr. Wizard guy myself

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


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## table1349 (Jun 12, 2017)

Now see what this does for you:  Teacher Shows Students How Negative Words Can Make Rice Moldy


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## waday (Jun 12, 2017)

gryphonslair99 said:


> Now see what this does for you:  Teacher Shows Students How Negative Words Can Make Rice Moldy


Wow, rice speaks/understands English.


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## table1349 (Jun 12, 2017)

waday said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
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> > Now see what this does for you:  Teacher Shows Students How Negative Words Can Make Rice Moldy
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Who knows, maybe rice just understands the inflection in your voice.  Maybe the teacher should curse at the rice in a sing song voice and see what happens.


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## KmH (Jun 13, 2017)

*Bill Nye - Wikipedia
"Bill Nye the Science Guy*, is an American science communicator, television presenter, and mechanical engineer."


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## KmH (Jun 13, 2017)

tecboy said:


> *Sound Healing, does it really heal?*


No.


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## tecboy (Jun 13, 2017)

KmH said:


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It amazing how people actually believe in Sound Healing.


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## nerwin (Jun 14, 2017)

Bill Nye was one of my favorite childhood idols and he got me into science at a very young age. I'm certainly no scientist and don't plan to be but I have a more understanding when it comes to science whereas some people just simply can't comprehend basic science or they put a blind eye to it. In early elementary school we watched The Magic School Bus a lot and they stopped doing it because parents complained because their child was "questioning" things. Science classes were one of the few classes I actually payed attention and participated in where most students thought it was a time to goof off and thought it was a joke. Without Bill Nye or The Magic School Bus, I'm not sure who I'd be today. Say what you want about Nye or Neil, but they are awesome educators when it comes to educating the younger generation. Yeah...there are "smarter" scientists out there but they aren't educators.


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## waday (Jun 14, 2017)

nerwin said:


> Bill Nye was one of my favorite childhood idols and he got me into science at a very young age. I'm certainly no scientist and don't plan to be but I have a more understanding when it comes to science whereas some people just simply can't comprehend basic science or they put a blind eye to it. In early elementary school we watched The Magic School Bus a lot and they stopped doing it because parents complained because their child was "questioning" things. Science classes were one of the few classes I actually payed attention and participated in where most students thought it was a time to goof off and thought it was a joke. Without Bill Nye or The Magic School Bus, I'm not sure who I'd be today. Say what you want about Nye or Neil, but they are awesome educators when it comes to educating the younger generation. Yeah...there are "smarter" scientists out there but they aren't educators.


I used to watch Magic School Bus, as well. All the time. Loved that show.

That's sad that children questioning "things" (i.e., ideologies) made you have a deliberate oversimplified education. Quite sad. 

How often do we as photographers get mad at others who oversimplify photography. "Wow, your pictures are great! You must have a nice camera!" Uh... yeah...


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## runnah (Jun 14, 2017)

Most folks should carry this around with them on a little card that they can refer to when ever they hear about some "amazing new miracle ancient secret" cure.







Or just realize that if some whackadoo cured cancer by making stupid noises you would hear about it on every single media outlet instead of a self promoting video.


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## JustJazzie (Jun 14, 2017)

Ohh, I know I will get flamed for this one. 

If one can;
actually break a wine glass, with SOUND
use cymatics to bring matter to life and create intricate geometric patterns in said matter, through the use of SOUND
Shatter an ear drum, with sound
Use sound to view the inside of a human body
Etc.
Is it REALLY and TRULY that far fetched to think we could shatter something like cancer cells by using the correct decibel and frequency, or help the immune system shift and move things in the body so that we can release them?

Or are we just waiting for someone smarter that us to believe that it's possible, and prove us all wrong?


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## nerwin (Jun 14, 2017)

waday said:


> nerwin said:
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> > Bill Nye was one of my favorite childhood idols and he got me into science at a very young age. I'm certainly no scientist and don't plan to be but I have a more understanding when it comes to science whereas some people just simply can't comprehend basic science or they put a blind eye to it. In early elementary school we watched The Magic School Bus a lot and they stopped doing it because parents complained because their child was "questioning" things. Science classes were one of the few classes I actually payed attention and participated in where most students thought it was a time to goof off and thought it was a joke. Without Bill Nye or The Magic School Bus, I'm not sure who I'd be today. Say what you want about Nye or Neil, but they are awesome educators when it comes to educating the younger generation. Yeah...there are "smarter" scientists out there but they aren't educators.
> ...



During summer vacation, I always walked to the public library and borrowed VHS tapes of The Magic School Bus and watched them instead of being a kid lol...but I didn't have many friends anyways so why not educate myself further?! Good times. 

I remember during science class when it came time to talk about the origins of man, aka evolution and some of the students had to sit outside the classroom. The weird thing is that in middle school and high school, I didn't notice much this happening so I'm not why these things occurred more in elementary school.


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## waday (Jun 14, 2017)

JustJazzie said:


> If one can;
> actually break a wine glass, with SOUND
> use cymatics to bring matter to life and create intricate geometric patterns in said matter, through the use of SOUND
> Shatter an ear drum, with sound
> ...


The difference between the former and the latter is scientific evidence (and general science). The former is able to be supported with evidence, and through general physics. 

The latter has no basis or evidence to support the claim. Show us scientific, peer-reviewed evidence that one can cure cancer with sound, and we will back you 100%. Until then, claims with no basis mean nothing.


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## table1349 (Jun 14, 2017)

JustJazzie said:


> Ohh, I know I will get flamed for this one.
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> If one can;
> actually break a wine glass, with SOUND
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Consider yourself flamed.


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## JustJazzie (Jun 14, 2017)

gryphonslair99 said:


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Thank you! I was a little cold.


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## pixmedic (Jun 14, 2017)

finally watched the video in the OP. wow. just wow. 
thats 30 seconds of my life that would have been better spent doing something more productive....like pulling out my fingernails or bashing my head against the wall....

what a wackjob. 
even calling that psuedo-science would be giving pseudo-science a bad name. 
i would trust faith healing by Mola Ram before I took that guys yelling seriously.


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## The_Traveler (Jun 14, 2017)

JustJazzie said:


> use cymatics to bring matter to life


.  Sound may make particles move but it doesn't bring them to life in the sense that they aren't alive.

"Is it REALLY and TRULY that far fetched to think we could shatter something like cancer cells by using the correct decibel and frequency, or help the immune system shift and move things in the body so that we can release them?"

yes, because cancer cells are as varied or more as the cells of the body and have quite similar properties to many.

yes, because the immune system is incredibly complex and diverse and expecting a specific frequency to direct them to 'do' something is like tapping your hand on a computer and expecting it to generate a poem.


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## table1349 (Jun 14, 2017)

Now this is sound healing baby.....




A bottle of wine, a bear skin rug in front of roaring fireplace and a Barry White album.
There be some healing going to that sound.   Anyone that was young in the 70's can swear to that.


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## JustJazzie (Jun 14, 2017)

The_Traveler said:


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I suppose you aren't one for metaphor then?


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## pixmedic (Jun 14, 2017)

JustJazzie said:


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whats a meta for?


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## tecboy (Jun 14, 2017)

Beside @KmH, what is with the bold large text?  I'm not nearsighted.


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## JustJazzie (Jun 14, 2017)

pixmedic said:


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I think meta is an abbreviation for meta data, which is some kind of button in the photoshop menu. But I'm not a real photographer, so I don't know what its for, I just like to sound smart!


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## nerwin (Jun 14, 2017)

JustJazzie said:


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What's a real photographer?


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## JustJazzie (Jun 14, 2017)

nerwin said:


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You. ;-)


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## table1349 (Jun 14, 2017)

Personaly instead of meta four I like to meta eight.  It's so relaxing when I am done, but it sure does take a lot of breath always chanting OHmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm,,,,,,,, OHmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.


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## runnah (Jun 14, 2017)

JustJazzie said:


> Ohh, I know I will get flamed for this one.
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> If one can;
> actually break a wine glass, with SOUND
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No comment other than please seek a legitimate medical professional if you are ever experiencing a serious medical situation.


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## JustJazzie (Jun 14, 2017)

runnah said:


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LOL! Hey now, I never said that wasn't a good step to take. But some complimentary healing certainly isn't going to hurt anything. AND further research and experiments are definitely in order!


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## runnah (Jun 14, 2017)

JustJazzie said:


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The only thing alternative medicine "cures" is your wallet from being obese.


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## JustJazzie (Jun 14, 2017)

runnah said:


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And mainstream medicine doesn't do the same? Apparently we have two very different insurance companies!


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## runnah (Jun 14, 2017)

JustJazzie said:


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Yes but you actually might get better with modern medicine.

Think of it this way, if rubbing crystals on your elbows cured cancer don't you think the modern medical establishment would be stumbling over themselves to charge a boat load of money to have medical grade crystals professionally rubbed on elbows?

Apply the same line of thinking to every single late night infomercial new age healing widget.


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## JustJazzie (Jun 14, 2017)

runnah said:


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Only if you're lucky!
Researchers: Medical errors now third leading cause of death in United States

But I suppose as I am in the minority and not actually here to change anyones mind, it is time for me to collect my essential oils, marijuana, and tibetan singing bowls, and bow out.  ;-)


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## table1349 (Jun 14, 2017)

JustJazzie said:


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## Overread (Jun 14, 2017)

JustJazzie said:


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1) Arguing that modern medication kills more people than something else by linking to a reference which states that its overdoses/accidental/addictions/ or other missuse of medication is childish at best. It does nothing for your argument what so ever.

2) Marijuana is being used for modern medication; its illegal status in many countries hampers its use, but it is being used as a form of pain relief. 

3) Modern Medicine makes extensive use of herbal/folk/traditional medication.  Indeed the foundations of many medications can be traced back to those roots. Modern medicine simply studies those properties and components to find which produce the most reliable recovery and then, from that, produce chemical compositions of those components, suitable for mass market delivery. 

4) Medicine is not an exact science nor is it simplistic. Many conditions can show the same symptoms; furthermore some conditions can combine and produce symptoms which mask what each of the individual underlaying causes are. As a result there is an element of trial and error in all medicine. Doctors us studies and make educated theories and take the best course of action possible.

5) Sound has got some interesting properties; however the difference between someone simply shouting at you and actual audio healing/methods is vast. Again most of these "sound curse - homoeopathic cures - crystals cure - holy water etc..." have no scientific studies that support them. What science which does support them tends to only be in-house to companies which profit directly off the sale/marketing/use of those methods. 
As said if crystals could cure modern drug companies would be falling over themselves to use them - crystals being a LOT cheaper than many of those other chemical compositions that they produce. And homoeopathy is so cheap its insane - drugs companies would be leaping to use it if it really worked (as would bottled water companies). 

6) Most of those "homoeopathic" and similar "cures" work by three elements
a) Placebo effect. Which is a documented scientific fact that if you think you'll recover you get an increased chance to do so.  This is often augmented by the fact that many treatment centres offer long consultations and almost act as a form of psychological support. This is a big thing and its not as if modern doctors avoid it; but more that their workload denies them the opportunity to offer that as part of the treatment for many ailments. 

b) Many common ailments often resolve themselves. The body isn't without its own ways of recovery and not all sickness is long lasting. As a result many ailments can resolve themselves. Some won't and never will - cancer is one of those that won't. 

c) Lack of proper education/mistrust of "big companies" "doctors" "the man" etc... Sadly many people lack a proper scientific education at even a basic level. This leaves them very vulnerable to companies eager to make big profits through the sale of false medical cures. This is exacerbated by the fact that people with serious medical conditions are often in a vulnerable state of mind and very scared. As a result something that sounds really safe; sounds really easy; hasn't got any downsides; et c.. sounds far more attractive than the scary operations that could kill as much as cure you that modern medicine offers.


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## JustJazzie (Jun 14, 2017)

Overread said:


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1) Had several articles open, grabbed the wrong link- but as you can see, I replaced it. Is the new one a perfect example? Nope! I won't even pretend its close. But Im a busy gal with better things to do than persuade people who really don't care about my opinions. 

The article posted was in jest with my "only if you're lucky" comment. Not intended as an actual argument, anyways. My original position still stands; that being, "Is sound a healer?" POSSIBLY! We need more research, but I won't be one to call it crazy because it could definitely lead somewhere. Stranger things have come to be, and I am excited at the possibilities of someone much smarter than myself leading the research. 

When it comes to healthcare, one has to proceed with what one is most comfortable and confidant with- and when that doesn't work, try something else.


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## waday (Jun 14, 2017)

I have a camera that cures cancer of the patient when I take a portrait of them*. I'll sell it to you for $10,000.






*No guarantees, but you can try it if you aren't getting results from a medical doctor. Hey, your cancer might go away, and it might not. Why not give it a try. Just $10,000. I'll even include my manual-focus only fifty nifty for free. Works great, but AF stopped when I dropped it. See, now how silly does this sound. You'd want proof, right? Proof that this is true. So, why would you not demand proof from homeopathic treatments?


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## vintagesnaps (Jun 14, 2017)

You can't go by just one study, it helps to look at the body of research. There also seems to be plenty 'out there' online to tell people what they want to hear instead of providing factual information. 

Glass can break, an eardrum being a membrane could rupture or be perforated, but cancer cells?? of course there is ultrasound and maybe intensive sound waves could possibly disintegrate cells, but it's irreponsible for a website to put it out there that yelling at someone's body could destroy cancer cells. 

I've read plenty of medical reports over the years and I suppose something didn't quite ring true. Apparently the study was actually more about info. on newer surgical and medical procedures not being available in a national database. Which may be a valid point. 
http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/403611589who-keeps-track-if-your-surgery-goes-well-or-fails

I found this article describing 'pseudoscience' and it being published in journals affiliated with BMJ but that's probably due to disreputable 'publications' in these days of getting people to pay to be published more than the British medical field itself. 
Fake Medical Journals Are Spreading, And They Are Filled With Bad Science


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## The_Traveler (Jun 15, 2017)

http://scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org/2015/04/27/alternative-therapies-whats-the-harm/


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## waday (Jun 15, 2017)

The_Traveler said:


> http://scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org/2015/04/27/alternative-therapies-whats-the-harm/


I've made the same comments to my wife regarding "natural is better". Mercury is natural. Arsenic is natural. Heck, cancer is natural. But, I digress.

When "natural" remedies go wrong (this made the rounds some time ago): Chinese man left with horrific holes on his back after botched cupping therapy  | Daily Mail Online . Don't go there if you're squeamish. Horrifying.


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## The_Traveler (Jun 15, 2017)

It's important to kep an open mind but not so open that one's common snse falls out.

Is health in Tibet much better than in the US in a matched population?

Will Tibetan singing bowls heal a fractured leg or prevent cataracts or fix decayed teeth?
If one looks in the the pile of discarded medical appliances at Lourdes, there are crutches and wheelchairs but no false teeth or wigs.

Healing Touch and Coronary Bypass

A double-blind randomized controlled pilot trial examining the safety and efficacy of therapeutic touch in premature infants.  - PubMed - NCBI

Studies on intercessory prayer - Wikipedia


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## Boy_Cringe (Jun 20, 2017)

I used to take some musical therapy when i was on Greek. The sounds making me so relaxed and it feels really great.


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