# New and Confused !



## Birk (Dec 7, 2012)

I'm sure you guys get a lot of this particular post.  Sorry if its annoying.

I'm new to digital SLR photography and am upgrading from my Iphone,  I've had a few point and shoot cameras in the past but I'm ready to move on.

I Live in Lethbridge, Alberta which is pretty flat prairie but also not far from the Canadian Rockies. I have a lot of land and a herd of 23 horses currently which I'd love to be able to better photograph. I spend many weekends in summer and a few in winter riding horses in the mountains. With that I've seen some pretty amazing sights that would be nice to capture.

With that said I'm extremely confused as to which camera to get.

I was always a fan of the Canon T3i and Im not sure why but it's older now so I was looking at the T4i.  I was pretty sure this is what I was going to get but I'm being told to avoid the Rebel line.
I have people telling me to go Nikon,  I have people telling me to get the Canon 5D Mark II which is out of my price range and probably too advanced for someone who knows hardly anything about DLSR settings.
I've been told to check out the 60D and the 7D,  I do really like the idea of the adjustable LCD screen on the T4i and the 60D.

So Really I dont know and could use some advice!

Canon T4i
Canon 60D
Canon 7D
Nikon D7000
Nikon D90


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## Overread (Dec 7, 2012)

DSLRs are not generally much more complicated than each other. Yes the higher end models will have more bells and whistles and more custom menu options - but your core camera controls are identical from a rebel up to a top of the line canon or nikon camera body - those are your aperture, shutter speed and ISO. That is the core of what makes an exposure and that doesn't change. 

Now another point to consider is that rebel and other entry level bodies from Nikon will generally have a few more auto modes, but not many. A few like landscape, macro, sports, portrait, no flash will be present, but if you're keen to learn you will fast leave those behind and advance onto the more regular modes. At the very least all modern DSLRs come with a full auto mode so you'll still have that to fall back on in the early days should you find the need to. 


That said its hard to just choose a body out of the air. Camera bodies come and go very fast and are only a tiny part of the whole DSLR setup. 

So best thing is to:

1) State your total budget. 

2) State your intentions. What do you want to take photos of, what conditions and situations, what subjects and locations etc.... The more criteria you can put down the better as it can help in making short term choices which have long term benefits. 




As for DSLRs being too complex - eh - its a null issue. If you want to learn you will and the basic controls are not beyond anyone. Heck I jumped in with a DSLR without ever having owned any other kind of camera or done any other kind of photography ever (ok ok there were disposable film cameras in there, but never anything more serious than a snap). So it certainly can be done provided you're prepared to read the manual and play around with it.


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## Birk (Dec 7, 2012)

That makes sense,  I'll be mostly taking photos outdoors,  Horses, Farm life, Mountain landscapes.  that sort of thing.  I'm getting a whole lot of people telling me a whole lot of stuff.  It's quite overwhelming 

I think I want to go Canon and I think I'm trying to choose between the 60D and the T4i


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## Overread (Dec 7, 2012)

It can be somewhat confusing - rest assured if you go with Canon OR Nikon you're buying into a system which can do anything all the way up to professional standard (if you've the skills and budget of course). So neither one will lock you out of anything. Indeed many of the other firms are also able to boast similar ranges of systems although they can be more market limited (ie only offering higher end gear and not always the lower end options). 

That said what's the overall budget you've got to work with? Sometimes it can pay to invest less in the body and put more into the glass that goes in front of it (whilst the camera body is important, the larger amount of image quality generally rests with the lens in front of the body). It sounds like the kit lens will suit you for most though horses might warrant a longer focal length lens than is typically sold in a kit lens for a DSLR.


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## rlemert (Dec 7, 2012)

I'm surprised at one suggestion people seem to be forgetting about - go down to your local camera store and actually touch each of the models you're considering. While the basic body is pretty much standard, there are lots of subtle differences between different makes and models that make each feel different from the others. Maybe you like the way one fits in your hand better, or you think its LCD is a little brighter and easier to see.

  You're about to make a pretty significant investment regardless of what brand you select. You might as well make sure that you're comfortable with what you get.


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## Birk (Dec 7, 2012)

I think Max I can afford is $1200 all in.  With the understanding that I'll need to buy other things in the relativity near future


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## jaomul (Dec 7, 2012)

You have 5 good cameras listed there. I have a canon 7d and like it. It is fast rugged and for me the image quality is great. The 60d has the same sensor but slightly slower and less advanced autofocus, but it still is fast and the 9 cross type autofocus is fast and responsive (I am comparing this to a 50d i used to own and each camera has the same af system) The rebel cameras are also fine but smaller and need more button pushing to get into some often used menus. The t4i is fast and has a well recommended focus system also, but if your hands are big it may be to small for you. I would of these recommend the 60d as it is enough camera for most people, I only bought a 7d instead of the 60d as one was going cheaply secondhand, even though no doubt a 7d is more camera.

I hate to say this, I don't know to much about Nikon (used both a few times and liked them also)but by most reviews the d90 and d7000 supposedly have better image quality than the canons mentioned above


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## TCampbell (Dec 7, 2012)

The Nikon vs. Canon thing is more of a religious debate and it's not unlike asking which beer you drink and whether you drive a Ford vs. a Chevy.  Frankly they're ALL great.  You can find individual nuances where one camera will seem better, but you'll find some other feature where the other camera is better.  As far as the basic foundational features and performance are concerned, they're all great.

This might provoke the question: if they're all great, then why are there so many choices?

There are lots of little feature differences between the models even though the core features are the same across products.

For example... Canon releases a new "Rebel" model nearly every year.  The T4i is "this years" latest model.  T he "T3i" was "last years" new latest model.  The T3i introduced a rear LCD that swings out and swivels (great when you're shooting from odd angles and can't stand behind the camera)  The T2i didn't have that (the LCD was flat the back and didn't hinge out).  The T4i adds a touch-screen LCD on the back.  While the T3i can trigger a remote speedlite (flash) using IR, the T4i can trigger a remote light using radio triggering (which is new).  

A fairly big feature of the T4i is that it's 9 point auto-focus system now uses all "cross type" focus points.  In prior models you had 9 points, but only the "center" point was cross type.  The other 8 points only check focus on one axis.  It's possible to fool a single-axis focus system with some subjects.  A focus system needs to find some contrast and usually that contrast will appear at the "edge" of a subject.  If those edges are in the same direction as the focus system axis (rather than cutting across the axis) then the camera might not detect the focus accurately.  When the focus points detect focus along two perpendicular axes simultaneously then the direction of the edge of a subject wont matter... the focus point will always find focus and it'll do so both faster and more accurately.  PREVIOUSLY in order to get more than 1 cross-type auto-focus point you had to upgrade to a Canon 60D or higher model.

The 60D is a "pro-sumer" body (a mid-range body rather than an entry-level body such as the Rebel line).  It has all 9 cross-type AF points, a swing-out LCD (but it's not touch-sensitive like the T4i because the 60D was released a couple of years ago).  The body grips are better.  Rather than a single selection wheel the 60D has two... one in front and one in back.  This is really nice for photographers who shoot in manual mode.  On a Rebel (which only has a front wheel located just behind the shutter button) you can use the wheel to change shutter speed in shutter priority mode or f-stop in aperture priority mode.  But in "manual" mode it'll normally control shutter speed and you have to press and hold an extra button while adjusting the wheel to control f-stop.  You get used to this operation but on a 60D the controls are laid out more like Canon's higher end bodies (the 7D, 5D, and 1D series bodies).  The front wheel does shutter speed and the rear wheel (which you turn with your thumb) handles aperture.  The 60D is "weather sealed" which means it has gaskets on all body seams and buttons and the dials have o-rings to keep out moisture and dust.  This doesn't make it "water proof" (if you submerge it underwater it will flood) but it does make it weather resistant (if it rains you wont need to worry that the water will get into the camera.  Nothing will get in unless it's under pressure.)

The 7D is optimized for action / sports shooting.  It has DUAL processors.  It uses CF memory cards rather than SD cards (CF cards are larger but have a much faster data transfer speed).  It can burst shots at 8 frames per second in "continuous" mode.  Rather than a 9-point autofocus system, it has a 19 point auto-focus system and ALL 19 points are "cross type".  It also has a magnesium alloy body (metal) rather than a polycarbonate (plastic) body.  Like the 60D it is also weather sealed.  

All of these cameras have Canon's 18MP APS-C size sensor (although due to tiny differences in the processors and firmware the image quality is fractionally different... but not so you'd notice.  Effectively they're all the same when it comes to core functionality and image quality.  Image quality is mostly influenced by lenses.

Then there's the 5D bodies... the MAIN difference with the 5D bodies is that they have "full frame" sensors.  All Rebels, the 60D and the 7D bodies have "APS-C" size sensors.  These are a little over 1/3rd smaller than the sensor on a 5D.  The 5D sensor is the same size as a 35mm film negative.  The 5D bodies are extremely popular among wedding & landscape photographers but not sports photographers.  That's mostly because the bodies optimized for sports (the 7D, 1D IV and now the new 1D X) are blazingly fast but the 5D bodies aren't optimized for speed.  The 5D II body only has a single cross-type AF point and the rest are single-axis only.  The new 5D III has the same AF system as the 1D X -- a 61 point AF array and 41 of those points are "cross type".  While the 5D III isn't quite as fast as the 7D in burst speed, it's much better than most cameras.

HOWEVER... for your purposes (shots of horses and landscapes) frankly any DSLR will do quite nicely.

The Rebel bodies are, in fact, quite high quality and extremely durable.  All DSLR bodies from Canon or Nikon are actually quite good.  The Rebel bodies aren't weather sealed but the polycarbonate bodies are quite solid.  These bodies can take a fair beating and nothing other than scuff marks to show for it.  Don't be afraid to put your camera to work.  You don't have to handle it with kid-gloves.  It can take it.


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## Birk (Dec 7, 2012)

Thank you very much for the information,  With taking that into consideration I'm seriously leaning now towards the 60D especially for the weather sealing.   I do ride in the mountains and some of the best shots are when storms are rolling in at high altitude.  Dust is also an issue around the farm so it sounds like a good investment even if it is an older body.


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## KmH (Dec 7, 2012)

rlemert said:


> I'm surprised at one suggestion people seem to be forgetting about - go down to your local camera store and actually touch each of the models you're considering. .



People can switch between camera types, makes, and models with little issue relative to feel.

Once someone is familiar with each, it can be pretty much seamless to switch from a Nikon DSLR, to a Rolliflex TLR, to a Hasselblad 500, and not lose anything because each feels somewhat different.

A couple of members here shoot both Nikon and Canon, and/or have several different types of camera.


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## enzodm (Dec 9, 2012)

If you want to take pictures of horses while running, close/far, you have to pay attention also to the lenses you buy, which may involve a fair fraction of the budget. Although this might be a second expense, after having learned the basics.


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## imtravy (Dec 9, 2012)

I saw your post on r/photography


Just get the T4i, it's awesome. And people are pretty much going to say the same thing


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## JAC526 (Dec 9, 2012)

Only advice I can give is buy used man.  If you search enough you can find really solid deals.


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## enzodm (Dec 9, 2012)

Birk said:


> Thank you very much for the information,  With taking that into consideration I'm seriously leaning now towards the 60D especially for the weather sealing.



Consider however that to have full sealing you need also sealed lenses - in particular regarding dust.


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## STIC (Dec 9, 2012)

...


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## Overread (Dec 9, 2012)

STIC said:


> What i'd _like_ to see is a '70D' (I know it's the single digit models that get full frame, but canon already stuffed this up with the 7D) that is basically exactly the same as the 7D, but with full frame sensor...now, *THAT* would be a camera..._come on Canon..._



It's been done already - its called the 5DMIII. Fullframe sensor with the AF capabilities of the 7D about the only thing it doesn't have is the same FPS capacity, but honestly its pretty darned fast there already. Sadly fullframe pushes the price up on the unit so you won't get a fullframe 7D priced camera with the same spec as the 7D although the new 6D is looking promising


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## CP1 (Dec 9, 2012)

Overread said:


> STIC said:
> 
> 
> > What i'd _like_ to see is a '70D' (I know it's the single digit models that get full frame, but canon already stuffed this up with the 7D) that is basically exactly the same as the 7D, but with full frame sensor...now, *THAT* would be a camera..._come on Canon..._
> ...


I dunno, the price of a 6D is more than a new 5DmkII. I'd rather get a MkII than a 6D. lol, to address the original statement, I think if you don't plan on making large investments on high quality glass and eventually moving to a full frame camera, the entry level kits should do just fine. Just keep in mind they aren't weather sealed so you don't go running around in a rainstorm with them.


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