# Emulsion Lifters



## Karalee (Mar 3, 2005)

I need some advice from you guys and gals who have lifted your images to other surfaces than paper.

I bought some tile yesterday to use as a receptor for some emulsion lifts, and was wondering if I needed to do anything special/weird/different than when you use paper as a receptor.

Thanks P-teamers


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## terri (Mar 3, 2005)

Oh, cool!!   I can't wait to see.  I've actually only used watercolor paper.    :blushing: 

BUT - I've read about it and actually bought to have ready a medium to help the emulsion stick to the surface.   Make sure the surface is squeaky clean, and apply the medium to the tile with an artist's brush.   After getting the emulsion down, make sure the brayer is wet when you roll it.   Are you using a piece of mylar for the transfer?   Use a little more medium, paint it on in both directions for good coverage.  

I used this stuff when I was working with the sepia Polaroid sheet film.  It was easy to use.  And I have to go home to double check, but I think it's called Liquidex, or Liqui-Tex....something like that.     Any art supply store.   Thin it with a little distilled water before you apply, and have a little turpenoid ready to clean your brush.

That's advice from someone who's never actually done it.       Others may weigh in here and tell us a much better way!


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## Karalee (Mar 3, 2005)

Thanks Terri I was hoping you would weigh in here, I wasnt sure If I needed to use a medium to help the emulsion stick or not, so Ill go lookin for some liquisomething


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## terri (Mar 3, 2005)

Sure!     

One other thing to consider is that the Liquitex (or whatever it is) comes in various surfaces, so depending on the effect you're after, check to see if you're buying the "matte" surface vs glossy or semi-gloss.   You can't tell till dry-down how it's going to appear, and since you're working with tile, it may show up if the surface is not the same.   So keep in mind how shiny your tile is/isn't. 

Can't wait to see it when it's done!   Be sure to let us know how it goes.    :thumbup:


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## terri (Mar 3, 2005)

Kara!   I double-checked.  It's called "Liquitex gel medium".   You should be able to pick some up easily.     

Good luck!!


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## Ambrosia (Mar 4, 2005)

i've emulsion lifted to tile without having to put anything on it like mediums.  Then again, it was Marble tile that I used.  It adhered to it like a second skin.  I guess it depends on the type of tile you are using.

I haven't tried it on any other kind of tile, but I'd imagine it would stick quite well.


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## terri (Mar 7, 2005)

Agreed.   The smoother the surface the better, I'm thinking.


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## Karalee (Mar 7, 2005)

Yeah its just regular tile, I just finished lifting to one, and it seems to be adhering pretty well on its own. The pictures themselves are crappy   , but Ive got a slide printer in sight for the very near future


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## terri (Mar 7, 2005)

> Yeah its just regular tile, I just finished lifting to one, and it seems to be adhering pretty well on its own. The pictures themselves are crappy   , *but Ive got a slide printer in sight for the very near future *


Good for you, Kara!   You'll be delighted with the new freedom.  Which model are you looking at?   :thumbup:


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## Karalee (Mar 7, 2005)

Probably just a vivitar one at the moment, although its tough to tell with this stuff, it seems to get addictive pretty fast  and its no use coming here for support, you guys just make me want to buy more... so I do


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## terri (Mar 7, 2005)

Karalee said:
			
		

> Probably just a vivitar one at the moment, although its tough to tell with this stuff, it seems to get addictive pretty fast  and its no use coming here for support, you guys just make me want to buy more... so I do


Oh, sure....blame the P-team!     

I think the vivitar is a great way to start.   It's much less expensive than the daylab, and you still get to go crazy trying every slide you've ever shot.    :mrgreen:   

It's only if you decide you want to move into larger formats, or start doing SX-70 with your slides, that the Daylab begins to make sense.  Hope you go for it!!


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## oriecat (Mar 7, 2005)

No no, don't blame the P-team, it's all on Terri! :mrgreen:

I need more film too, but it's so darn expensive.  I keep thinking we should get a giant lot on ebay to split or something, then the cost might go down.


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## Karalee (Mar 7, 2005)

Cheapest Ive been able to get it is $25 delivered from bh for 669. And that was for 2 packs, but I definately like your thinking Mindy, when I cracked that last pack yesterday it was kinda like a state of uh oh now I have to buy more.


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## terri (Mar 7, 2005)

oriecat said:
			
		

> No no, don't blame the P-team, it's all on Terri! :mrgreen:
> 
> I need more film too, but it's so darn expensive.  I keep thinking we should get a giant lot on ebay to split or something, then the cost might go down.


Well, be glad you don't have my admittedly cool setup.    :blushing:   All I like to use now is the 4x5 sheet film, and it's idiotically expensive.   I ran out of 669 last year and just haven't bought anymore (helps to save up for the 59, etc!).     But unless I have a festival coming up or something specific in mind to use it on, I can't just buy it on a whim and keep it around, for fear it will expire and then I'll use it on anything just to use it.   

I do still have some Time Zero that's still fresh, but I really need some new slides for that.


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## telex95 (Mar 16, 2005)

Hi all,
I'm quite new to Polaroid Emulsion Lift technique.  I've read a few website articles, and still couldn't understand how it's done.  So, here's my take on how to do it, please correct me if I'm wrong.  
1.) Use 669 Polaroid film
2.) Once a pic is taken, stick it to a piece of watercolor paper (or any surfaces that you think it will stick).
3.) Roll it with a roller
4.) Wait until it's dried, and then lift the polaroid.

Am I missing any steps?

Thanks,
Sofia


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## oriecat (Mar 16, 2005)

No, you've got it out of order.  It's more like this (simplified):

1.  Use 669 film
2.  Immerse pic in hot water to loosen the emulsion.
3.  Move to cool water to finish removing the emulsion from the backing.
4.  Transfer emulsion from the water to the new paper or surface
5.  Roll it and dry


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## terri (Mar 16, 2005)

telex95 said:
			
		

> Hi all,
> I'm quite new to Polaroid Emulsion Lift technique.  I've read a few website articles, and still couldn't understand how it's done.  So, here's my take on how to do it, please correct me if I'm wrong.
> 1.) Use 669 Polaroid film
> 2.) Once a pic is taken, stick it to a piece of watercolor paper (or any surfaces that you think it will stick).
> ...


Hi Sofia - What websites have you visited?  Just curious.   I don't agree with everything that's said at the Polaroid.com site, but I think the directions they outline for the emulsion lift are pretty straightforward.   Try reading over there.   You _are_ missing a crucial step, which is that the emulsion of the Polaroid print must be lifted - separated - from the backside or base of the print _before_ you lay it on the watercolor paper.   This is accomplished by dropping the print (after sealing the back) into water that has reached a temperature of about 160 degrees.   The emulsion will lift off itself after a few minutes, and you grab it with tongs, toss it into a tray of cool water, then slip the watercolor paper under the emulsion and using your fingers, capture the emulsion and lay it on under the water.   You can raise and lower the watercolor paper several times to see different ways it wants to lay there, but always anchor the corners of the emulsion with your thumbs while you do this.   If you mess with it too long, it can slip away and turn into a mass of goo.   Takes a little practice, because the emulsion is like a thin membrane once it is separated from the back of the Polaroid print - but that is essentially how it's done.      The Polaroid site has actual kits for sale for this technique, along with some directions.   Do you have any specific questions?   Several of us do the technique and will be glad to try to help you along.


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## terri (Mar 16, 2005)

Oh, dear, Orie was answering while I was busy babbling away.    :lmao:   See how helpful we all are?


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## oriecat (Mar 16, 2005)

Oh what you wrote sounds much more like an image transfer.  I just realized that.


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## oriecat (Mar 16, 2005)

Oh hi Terri!


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## terri (Mar 16, 2005)

oriecat said:
			
		

> Oh what you wrote sounds much more like an image transfer.  I just realized that.


You're right!!!   She's thinking _transfer_, but calling it a lift.   We took her too literally.

Oh dear, and we've just confused the crap out of her.... :mrgreen: 

We're here to help, really we are!!!     

Take it away, Orie!!!


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## telex95 (Mar 16, 2005)

Hi again,

Wow, I'm quite impressed by all your quick responses.  Oriecat was right, I was talking about image transfer...oops, sorry.  Told you guys I"m very new at this.

But, the lift does sound interesting, though it seems very hard to do.  Just reading through the steps involved, it looks like emulsion lift generates a sharper image as oposed to image transfer where you just press the image onto a surface.  I guess I'll try both to see the difference.  

Question - On your final step, when you roll the emulsion onto the surface, does it go on easily? Or do you use something called Liquid gel as someone was talking about it previously in this thread?

I've been doing a lot of darkroom work, and only recently I've became really interested in alternative techniques.  It amazes me how polaroid can so much funky stuff...something I should investigate a lot more on.

Thanks again for all your helpful information.

Sofia


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## ferny (Mar 17, 2005)

> Question - On your final step, when you roll the emulsion onto the surface, does it go on easily? Or do you use something called Liquid gel as someone was talking about it previously in this thread?


I think you're talking lifts here. Don't worry, I went through the lift/transfer ??? faze as well. 

With a Polaroid photograph you get an image which is sandwiched between two surfaces. Behind the image you've got a hard white plastic base and in front of the image you've got some other thin clear coating. I have no idea what to call it so I'm probably showing myself up here. When you put the image into the hot water the clear coating loosens itself from the image. It possibly dissolves? You then transfer it all to the cooler water so that you can get your hands in there. In the first bowl I use water straight from the kettle so it wouldn't be wise to put my hands in there. In the cooler bowl you can play with it and pull it about to release it from the hard white backing. What you're left with it a plastically feeling image floating around in the water. It'll roll up and become a mess but it doesn't stick to itself. It's very thin and some people (no fingers pointed...) seem to tear it easily. I've found it to be pretty tough stuff and I've pulled it about more than I should have and haven't hand any problems. Now what you need to do is get this floating image onto some plastic which is in the water. Polaroid say to use some thin clear acetate which is what I use. What you have to do is find one corner of the image and hold it on the acetate. Sandwich it between your finger and thumb. Now you'll need to find another corner. Hopefully it'll be on the same side as the one you've already found. You hold a corner with each hand. So if you lift it all out of the water you'll have a messy lump laying on a piece of thin clear plastic and you'll be holding the lump on there by two corners. Now you bump it up and down in the water. The waves from the water get into the creases and folds of the lumpy image and it flattens itself out. When you're happy with one side you lift it all out of the water, turn it around so you can hold two other corners and then bump some more. You won't always get every single crease out, but that adds to the arty effect later on. One thing you do have to make sure of is that your image is back to front. What you're going to do now is lay the image onto another surface. If it is the right way around on the acetate it will be the wrong way around on the final surface. Polaroid say to wet the surface you are about to place the image onto. I used to, but don't now. I found it hard to remove it from the acetate if it was all wet. I'd have to be very careful to not allow it to slide when I laid it down as you've get creases. Now what I do it use a dry surface. Because the image is wet and the paper it is going onto it dry the dry paper grabs and soaks up the water from the image and it helps it all stick. All I do is lay the acetate down onto the paper, give it a rub and pull the acetate away. The image is stuck to the paper.


That was a long way to answer that question wasn't it?




> Cheapest Ive been able to get it is $25 delivered from bh for 669. And that was for 2 packs, but I definately like your thinking Mindy, when I cracked that last pack yesterday it was kinda like a state of uh oh now I have to buy more.


The ceapest you can get it here is £25 ( $48 ) for a twin pack. It's pretty much the same price anywhere you go here. It's too expensive. 


Oh, I put a lift onto a glass once. That was fun... Getting out all the lines and creases. Then it turned out that you couldn't see the image properly. When you put anything in the glass it vanished completely. Bugger.
I've got to lift it off of there and put it onto some paper or something.


Oh, just did a search to find this post. It may help you.
http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10520


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## terri (Mar 17, 2005)

*But, the lift does sound interesting, though it seems very hard to do.  Just reading through the steps involved, it looks like emulsion lift generates a sharper image as oposed to image transfer where you just press the image onto a surface. * 

Sorry for the miscommunication.   As you can tell, we're all enthusiasts of the various Polaroid processes here.    

About your statement up there.   With the _emulsion lift_, try to think of that term literally.   It's not that you get a sharper image - you are actually lifting the image, exactly as you shot it, from the Polaroid backing.   You then _transfer_ that image to another surface, waterpaper, or as Kara did in this thread, to tile.   It is important for you, as a beginner, to make sure you have the terms straight.   Lots of folks refer to emulsion lifts as emulsion transfers (because you do transfer that emulsion from one surface to another) but it is very easy to confuse the terms as a beginnner.   We informally agreed around here that, for uniformity, we'd call emulsion lifts exactly that, and the image transfers you originally asked about, image transfers.     

Clear as mud, right?    :mrgreen:   Hopefully we haven't confused you too much with our enthusiasm.   btw - there are people who find emulsion lifts much easier to master than image transfers, which can go badly until you get the hang of it.   

*Question - On your final step, when you roll the emulsion onto the surface, does it go on easily? Or do you use something called Liquid gel as someone was talking about it previously in this thread?*   You don't need Liquitex for an emulsion lift onto watercolor paper.  The watercolor paper needs to be damp before you put the emulsion on it, and you roll it flat with a damp brayer.  

*I've been doing a lot of darkroom work, and only recently I've became really interested in alternative techniques.  It amazes me how polaroid can so much funky stuff...something I should investigate a lot more on*.    Hear, hear!   There's lots of info out there, but the best way is to try a few....then you'll have more specific questions as you find out what it working, or not.   

Hope this helps!


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## telex95 (Mar 17, 2005)

Hi Ferny,

Thanks for the detailed answer!! Yes, I was referring to emulsion lift.  

I was at a photography store yesterday, and the price for a pack of 20 "669" is $40 CDN.  That's very expensive! With that kind of money I can buy two boxes of B&W paper.


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## terri (Mar 17, 2005)

telex95 said:
			
		

> Hi Ferny,
> 
> Thanks for the detailed answer!! Yes, I was referring to emulsion lift.
> 
> I was at a photography store yesterday, and the price for a pack of 20 "669" is $40 CDN.  That's very expensive! With that kind of money I can buy two boxes of B&W paper.


Try online - B&H has it much cheaper.


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## telex95 (Mar 17, 2005)

Well, I guess you're right Terri.  But then, here's the problem with living in Canada, shipping is expensive..


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## terri (Mar 17, 2005)

telex95 said:
			
		

> Well, I guess you're right Terri.  But then, here's the problem with living in Canada, shipping is expensive..


It's expensive everywhere.       To offset those costs, I usually toss in more P-film, or a roll of film or two - something lightweight that won't raise the cost of shipping but still keep my cost per item down, relatively.   

Have fun while exploring this brave new world of Polaroid techniques.    :thumbup:


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