# Dance Portrait Help



## LouR (Mar 24, 2013)

A little background:  I worked in a high end portrait studio as a retoucher/designer/ owner's lackey for almost 5 years.  I know what looks "correct" but haven't done a studio portrait since school 8 years ago. Well, I have, but the lighting was set up when I got there.
Now I have the opportunity to shoot dance portraits for a studio I've shot recitals for for years.  I need lighting and ran across this at B & H.  The studio has overhead fluorescent lights, a full wall mirror would be to my left and the walls are white.  There will be a backdrop.  
Will this be enough to give me smooth lighting without shadowing on the backdrop? I thought the light and softbox would be on my left at approx 270 degrees toward the dancer.
I have small lamps I could use for backlights. Should I?  The backdrop is a light blue-ish drape. I'm thinking it should be as below. Please tell me if the  lighting from B & H is enough or if this set up is right or wrong. It's not until June so I have time to get what I need;  I just can not afford a $3k set up!


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## tirediron (Mar 24, 2013)

What kind of dance?  

The set-up you show would be suitable for a static subject, but assuming they're going to be moving shots, I'd want at least three lights.  Two about 45 degrees either side of the camera with BIG (as in 60"+) SBs (since it's much easier to control spill with a SB than an umbrella).  Your key will be whichever one the dancer is moving toward; set that about 1/3 - 1/2 stop above the fill, but don't let him/her move to far, of you'll wind up with ugly shadows.  I'd use the third light for the background.  You don't need to spend huge amounts; Adorama's Flashpoints will do well for this.  The modifiers and their placement is key.


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## Mike_E (Mar 24, 2013)

You don't say how big the dancers are but if they're between 3 and 4 feet and down then you should be able to get by with that although I would suggest that you also pick up a largish reflector.  Keep the strobe light off of the background by aiming it and drag your shutter to control it's brightness.



Is this a one and done situation or will you be expecting the setup to last and be useful for other things?  It might last a while but I wouldn't expect it.


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## LouR (Mar 24, 2013)

They will not be moving, they're posing and stationary.  Ages are between 4 and 16, so I'd just be moving the stand and tripod.  It will be a one and done(shoot over 2 nights in-studio), more or less in that I'll probably pack it away until 2014.


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## tirediron (Mar 24, 2013)

Ah well, in that case you should be fine as-is.


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## LouR (Mar 24, 2013)

tirediron said:


> Ah well, in that case you should be fine as-is.


Thanks.  Now to find a light-to-hotshoe synch cord for Sony...one place I looked said "fits all but Sony" and I thought all hotshoes were the same after a certain time.


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## tirediron (Mar 24, 2013)

Try Flash Zebra; I've bought a LOT of stuff from them. Good service, fast shipping, and if they don't have it, it probably doesn't exist.  For some reason, Sony elected not to use the industry standard hot-shoe; no idea why, but as with removable media and other things, they decided to be propietary...


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## LouR (Mar 25, 2013)

tirediron said:


> Try Flash Zebra; I've bought a LOT of stuff from them. Good service, fast shipping, and if they don't have it, it probably doesn't exist.  For some reason, Sony elected not to use the industry standard hot-shoe; no idea why, but as with removable media and other things, they decided to be propietary...


Thanks. Bookmarked it.


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## Fox_Racing_Guy (Mar 25, 2013)

LouR said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> > Ah well, in that case you should be fine as-is.
> ...



You don't need a adopter to use studio flash with a A77, there is a standard PC sync socket right on the camera.


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## gsgary (Mar 25, 2013)

You will need flash and not constant lighting


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## LouR (Mar 25, 2013)

gsgary said:


> You will need flash and not constant lighting


 This looks to be flash capable. PC synch cord is included. I also have a Sigma EF500 unit that I have a mini-diffuser/softbox for if I need more front light.  My other option I'd thought about was getting a table mount and set that up instead of getting the monolight kit  and using it but I think the light might be to severe and concentrated even with the diffuser.
I am reading around the web and some people are having issues with their lights not synching(flashing) with their A77s, so if it's a constant light source, that actually would eliminate issues during the shoot.  Last thing I need is some 7 year old trying to hold a pose while I try to hold my tongue. LOL


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## Big Mike (Mar 25, 2013)

> so if it's a constant light source, that actually would eliminate issues during the shoot.


Except that with constant light sources, you are relying on the shutter speed being fast enough to give you a sharp photo.  Which would require either a very large aperture, a very high ISO, or a whole lot of light.  The modeling light wattage on that light, is 60 Watts.  So pretty much a desk lamp.  That will not give you enough light.  To get something usable, you're probably looking at a few hundred Watts...and anything with that much power, is going to be hot.  

Figure out your flash/strobe system.  

Also, it is certainly possible to shoot portraits with one light, but it will be difficult to control the exposure of your backdrop.  The key to good looking backdrops, is being able to light them separately from your subject, especially if you want it to be bright.  There is also the issue of fill light, an on-camera flash or reflector could help with that.  
Also, you will probably want to have your subject far enough away from the backdrop, so that they don't cast a shadow onto it.


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## LouR (Mar 25, 2013)

Big Mike said:


> > so if it's a constant light source, that actually would eliminate issues during the shoot.
> 
> 
> Except that with constant light sources, you are relying on the shutter speed being fast enough to give you a sharp photo.  Which would require either a very large aperture, a very high ISO, or a whole lot of light.  The modeling light wattage on that light, is 60 Watts.  So pretty much a desk lamp.  That will not give you enough light.  To get something usable, you're probably looking at a few hundred Watts...and anything with that much power, is going to be hot.
> ...


I was thinking a reflector umbrella between my right shoulder and the dancer would help with fill.  
Considering I need to keep my costs to much less than $500 ( I have no idea what the dance studio's past portrait selling history is and would like to make _something_ on this), would this setup, my Sigma flash unit and a backlight be enough, possible with the reflector?  Tirediron seems to think just the one light, B & H does sell a two-light with softboxes set for just a bit more.
Jeez, I am so much better shooting with no extra lights at all-less thinking that way. LOL Maybe i should have them step outside!


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## Derrel (Mar 25, 2013)

Here's a approach that I think a commercial shooter might take to this scenario. This is based on using only one studio flash and one "optional" speedlight. The scrim, or diffusing panel, can be made of anything, but PVC pipe is most common on DIY setups. Using a standard reflector on a flash head, aim it so that "some" of the raw light shoots past the edge of the diffusion panel and strikes the background. The closer side of the backdrop will be rendered lighter, and the farther areas will be rendered darker; this placement of the light gives an automatic gradient fill, right in-camera!!!

The subject is lighted by a LARGE light source, a vertically-positioned 4-foot wide by 6-foot tall diffusion panel, so it's ample for single, standing subjects. Place the subject so that the raw, undiffused light does not hit them, but does strike the background drapel. If you want fill, you can use a speedlight at half-power or whatever power is needed, placed camera-right. OR, even right on the camera, in the hot shoe; there is NOTHING wrong with directly ON-AXIS fill-light!!! it works great. You in fact normally want the fill light to be close to the lens axis--and not,I repeat not,not,not,not, raking in at the opposite angle as the main light (that is cross-lighting and looks amateurish and bad).

With a 4x6 panel on small kids, the light source is much bigger than they are, and I really don;t think you'll even need a fill light; of course, you could use a reflector for fill, or the optional speedlight, if so desired.

Here's an iPhone snap of a sketch I just drew of how this could be set up.


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## LouR (Mar 25, 2013)

Derrel said:


> Here's a approach that I think a commercial shooter might take to this scenario. This is based on using only one studio flash and one "optional" speedlight. The scrim, or diffusing panel, can be made of anything, but PVC pipe is most common on DIY setups. Using a standard reflector on a flash head, aim it so that "some" of the raw light shoots past the edge of the diffusion panel and strikes the background. The closer side of the backdrop will be rendered lighter, and the farther areas will be rendered darker; this placement of the light gives an automatic gradient fill, right in-camera!!!
> 
> The subject is lighted by a LARGE light source, a vertically-positioned 4-foot wide by 6-foot tall diffusion panel, so it's ample for single, standing subjects. Place the subject so that the raw, undiffused light does not hit them, but does strike the background drapel. If you want fill, you can use a speedlight at half-power or whatever power is needed, placed camera-right. OR, even right on the camera, in the hot shoe; there is NOTHING wrong with directly ON-AXIS fill-light!!! it works great. You in fact normally want the fill light to be close to the lens axis--and not,I repeat not,not,not,not, raking in at the opposite angle as the main light (that is cross-lighting and looks amateurish and bad).
> 
> ...


Seems simple enough and I can use my Sigma speedlight with its diffuser right on camera if needed (whatever I can do to offset the fluorescent lights-even at half-lit, they'll be ugly!).  I have a roll of eggshell white background paper-will that work as a diffusion panel, provided I can get it standing somehow?  oooh! Window blinds! lol I just remembered the mirrored wall on the left-should I drape my white backdrop cloth over that or leave it alone? Seems to me the light might bounce wrong if I don't cover it.


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## Derrel (Mar 25, 2013)

Something thinner, that will allow more light to pass through, would probably make a better diffusion panel. My suggestion is PVC pipe to make a frame, and a shower curtain or other type of frosted plastic as the diffusion material. White,semi-transparent rip-stop nylon fabric from a fabric store also works. All you need are two roughly 45 " long PVC pipes, and two 71 inch long pipes, and then 4 elbows to make the frame. Cost is around $10 for all the PVC pipe and the elbow joints. "Feet" to prop it can also be made from PVC pipe. Look on-line for tutorials--there must be 5 dozen or more "build your own reflector/diffuser" video and written tutorials.


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## LouR (Mar 25, 2013)

Ahhh...thanks. Since I do artshows, I have 6ft high wire racks, similar to how you describe the diffuser framing.  Some opaque shower curtains, guess I'm good to go there.


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## LouR (Mar 27, 2013)

After seeing the other thread about lighting kits and clicking links in it, I've decided to go with an umbrella set up instead of a softbox as these images will be full body portraits.  Adorama's Flashpoint sells what looks to be a good starter kit for under $500 and it seems umbrellas are quicker to set up.  A video Adorama puts out as part of their Adorama TV lessons had a 60" umbrella and a single light, which also might work and would be a lot less time to set up. The instructor had the umbrella directly in front of the model, about 6 feet away and used no other lighting, explaining the size and position of it spread the light in a way as to eliminate shadows. Thoughts?


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## tirediron (Mar 27, 2013)

That kit will do nicely; if you want to do full-body, single light work, consider something like this brolly-box.


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## LouR (Mar 27, 2013)

Thanks. There's a cheaper 2 light system as well; one could be backlighting if needed, then get the bollybox.  Since their flagship store is about 30 minutes from my house, I will most likely go into NY and hopefully see this stuff live and in person before making my final purchase.


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