# ok all you pinhole enthusiasts



## terri (Apr 19, 2006)

Show us what ya got! 

http://www.pinholeday.org/


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## JamesD (Apr 20, 2006)

Already gearing up for it.... got a couple of ideas brewing. :mrgreen:


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## mysteryscribe (Apr 20, 2006)

I'll bet you a hundred bucks that it rains here on that day.


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## terri (Apr 20, 2006)

mysteryscribe said:
			
		

> I'll bet you a hundred bucks that it rains here on that day.


So what? :mrgreen: Don't be a glass half empty! :sun:


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## mysteryscribe (Apr 20, 2006)

but ... but... my camera will rust


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## terri (Apr 20, 2006)

mysteryscribe said:
			
		

> but ... but... my camera will rust


:chatty: Wrap it up and put an umbrella over it!


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## mysteryscribe (Apr 20, 2006)

easy for you to say, you dont shoot a tin can...


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## JamesD (Apr 20, 2006)

mysteryscribe said:
			
		

> easy for you to say, you dont shoot a tin can...




I do, but what's that got to do with photography? 

Actually, it better not rain here... my camera is made from Cinnamon Toast Crunch and Honey Nut Cheerios boxes.

There's always indoor photography.


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## mysteryscribe (Apr 20, 2006)

see terri us primitive guys have to stay dry.. unless it rains milk


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## ksmattfish (Apr 26, 2006)

It's coming up on Sunday!!!

Here's an awesome site

http://www.mrpinhole.com/index.php

I'll be carrying my DSLR with DIY pinhole bodycap, and I'm setting up a Speed Graphic for pinhole.  I'll shoot BW neg film and color polaroid with that.    

The local photography group and arts center are having an almost free pinhole workshop (just pay for the paper) all afternoon.  People can walk in and make or borrow pinhole cameras, go out and shoot, and then return to process and scan the results.


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## mysteryscribe (Apr 26, 2006)

If it doesn't sell on ebay first, I'm going to shoot the argus ready flash 120 roll film.  If I does, I have a duaflex coming which I'm going to convert anyway.  I might have it ready in time.  

If none of that comes about, I will have to take the back glass out of the brownie paint can cam.  I don't want to cheat with glass in the lens. 

I can't believe with all the cameras I have built, I don't have a single pure pinhole that accepts cutfilm backs.  Most of mine have gone to f90 primative glass cameras now.  Or they are just plain antique lens with regular glass and apertures.

If worse comes to worse, I have a old brownie flash I can convert.  If I have to go roll film, I might shoot a roll of color negs with it.

And fish I have a chart from mr pinhole which I use for exposure.  The information there is how to convert your meter reading to the higher fstop.  I have an old polaroid that does ev readings.  It was easier for me to convert the chart to ev.  My chart has my apertures for all my primative and pinhole cameras in one chart.  I love it.

Mr Pinhole is an excellent source of information... I highly recomment his exposure guides.


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## terri (Apr 26, 2006)

ksmattfish said:
			
		

> It's coming up on Sunday!!!
> 
> Here's an awesome site
> 
> ...


That sounds like a blast. :thumbup: I am going to be interested in seeing your Speed Graphic results, Matt.


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## ksmattfish (Apr 26, 2006)

My handheld meter goes to f/128, and my pinhole for the Speed Graphic is approx f/250, so I just have to add 2 stops, and consider reciprocity failure, if any.  

Home made pinhole cams are the most fun, but I decided to just plan on the Speed Graphic, because I knew it would be an easy conversion that would allow a lot of shooting.  If I can find the time though, I'm going to put together a few cardboard and duct tape models, loaded with paper.


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## mysteryscribe (Apr 26, 2006)

If I did cardboard and tape it would rain like noah's nightmare.  I like to convert cameras to other uses.  The old trash cams from the forties and fifties are candidates for pin hole and not much else.


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## photogoddess (Apr 27, 2006)

Holy Crap - I just remembered that I have a pin hole cap for my Canon. Now... where to find it. :scratch:


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## JamesD (Apr 27, 2006)

1)  Select locations/plan shots
Previsualization​2)  Cut paper
10 8X10 sheets into 40 4X5 sheets, 10 for testing, 10 for exposures, 20 for prints/reprints.  Did you think I was doing just one picture? Ha!​3)  Prepare lens boards
New pinholes, and special pinholes for planned special exposures​4)  Assemble changing bag
For loading film in the field.​5)  Mix chemistry
Dektol takes a while to dissolve completely, then attain room temperature.  Done a couple days in advance for this reason.​6)  Make test exposures & Develop
Minimal errors on the Big Day​7)  Acquire props
Sure, why not?​8)  Hire models
Hahahaha!  Yeah, right!​9)  Check weather forecast
Thunderstorms?! ARRGH!​10)  Check studio equipment
See above​11)  On second thought.... Acquire umbrella, raincoat
See above​12)  Check darkroom accessories & safelight
Tight deadlines, gotta make sure everything is ready to go​13)  Check scanner, software
Take no chances!​14)  Make exposures
Step 1​15)  Develop exposures
Step 2​16)  Make prints
Step 3​17)  Hang/Upload/Post photos for display
That's what it's all about!​


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## mysteryscribe (Apr 27, 2006)

And I just planned to wake up have beer, find my kodak duoflex pin hole I just made.  And go to the park.  I must be missing something here.


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## JamesD (Apr 27, 2006)

mysteryscribe said:
			
		

> And I just planned to wake up have beer, find my kodak duoflex pin hole I just made.  And go to the park.  I must be missing something here.



Hmmm...

Waking up is step 0.

Going to the park is step 13A

Having a beer is clearly step 0A and 18, and may (read: will) be inserted elsewhere as desired. :mrgreen:


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## mysteryscribe (Apr 27, 2006)

I like your plan better all the time.


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## JamesD (Apr 27, 2006)

ROFL!

Now that I think about it, this might be a good time to begin on step -1.  What do you think?


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## mysteryscribe (Apr 27, 2006)

now that idea is a real weiner


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## terri (Apr 28, 2006)




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## JamesD (Apr 28, 2006)

Will you be along as well, Terri?


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## terri (Apr 28, 2006)

JamesD said:
			
		

> Will you be along as well, Terri?


I have an arts festival this weekend, both days. :meh: Sorta like work.


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## mysteryscribe (Apr 28, 2006)

Get some customers to pose for you. I would love to see some pinhole portraits.  By the way I hope it's indoors this is way too early for an outdoor festival.  

I was promoter for one on may first and it was the coldest day I can remember every being at a show.  The wind howled and the site owner wouldn't let me start a fire in a barrel even.  Can you say Pri*k...


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## JamesD (Apr 28, 2006)

Hear, hear!  Strongly seconded!


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## mysteryscribe (Apr 28, 2006)

The nude painter thing must have scared poor Pat off... Ah well only the strong survive here.

I should know I tried to quit twice...


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## terri (Apr 28, 2006)

mysteryscribe said:
			
		

> The nude painter thing must have scared poor Pat off... Ah well only the strong survive here.
> 
> I should know I tried to quit twice...


I blame you. :mrgreen:  

Besides, she's got 3 kids, give her some time off.


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## terri (Apr 28, 2006)

mysteryscribe said:
			
		

> Get some customers to pose for you. I would love to see some pinhole portraits. By the way I hope it's indoors this is way too early for an outdoor festival.
> 
> I was promoter for one on may first and it was the coldest day I can remember every being at a show. The wind howled and the site owner wouldn't let me start a fire in a barrel even. Can you say Pri*k...


heh, this is the 3rd year I've done this one. First year they had it 2 weeks earlier than this and it was 80 degrees and HOT in that tent.  This year doesn't look like I will be as lucky. If I have any customers braving the cooler temps and threatened rain, NO I ain't gonna tell them to stand still for 3 minutes while also encouraging them to look at my stuff.  

I don't even have a pinhole, truth be known. I was chumming up the rest of y'all. :mrgreen:


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## JamesD (Apr 28, 2006)

Pinholes are easy to make!  And you could put up a sign saying "Models wanted for pinhole portraits!" or "Get your old-time-looking portrait made here!"


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## mysteryscribe (Apr 28, 2006)

about pat:  It was the automatic rifle joke that did it.

Pin hole portrait... Hubby can make you one of those head brace things that they used in the 1800s,.


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## JamesD (Apr 28, 2006)

I'm glad I did the test... it appears I've damaged the emulsion on some of my paper, either when I cut it, or by accidentally spattering something on it, or something.... but anyway, this is a 4X5 contact print.  I do have a question:  the foreground (the blown-out part) is concrete, with a textured surface.  Other than blocking the light, is there some way to get an image like this to show some detail both in the shaded background and also in the brightly-lit foreground?  Perhaps my exposure is too long?  A VC filter (I have them to 00, I think) in line with the negative?

Any ideas?  Y'all've got more experience with this than I do.

Oh, and the picture (duh, almost forgot it):







BTW, Terri, this was made with the picture frame contact thingy.

-James


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## mysteryscribe (Apr 28, 2006)

on a contact print I have no idea. 

Unless you were to Expose for the foreground I think, then in your photo editor after the scan lighten the background. that should work... Eh terri

I like the shot by the way... Much better than the stuff I am getting


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## mysteryscribe (Apr 29, 2006)

SLEEPY SUNDAY MORNING

It was six thirty on a spring Sunday morning, when the young park ranger looked up to see the battered old Dodge pull into her just cleaned parking lot. A minute or so after the car stopped a very old man removed himself from the car. It seemed to be about all he could manage. He leaned against the car to catch his breath even after so small an effort.
She stayed to watch. At first she was afraid he would have a heart attack in her park. Later she watched because she was fascinated. It seemed as though it took an hour for him to unpack his one leather satchel. The bag was large like the kind mail men from her youth had carried.
It was so large that she expected him to stagger from the weight of it. Instead he bent left from his waist to counter balance the weight on his right shoulder. She watched as he slowly walked to the lake. There were several observation points at the lake, but he moved to a single bench away from all the others. He seemed to have known exactly where he was headed. She was surprised since she had never seen him before.
The old man sat the satchel down on the bench beside him. He stopped to take a long, deep breath before he continued. From the satchel he removed a few wooden sticks. One at time he assembled them into a tripod. It was either very old or a very good reproduction of an old tripod.
Next he removed a flat square piece of wood. It was obviously newer than the tripod. Somehow he was able to attach it to the top of the older contraption. He shook the whole thing then nodded slightly to show his approval.
At that point he removed what appeared to be an old cigar box. The box was even adorned with the picture of a half dressed woman sitting on a cloud. She watched as he cut a square hole in the top of the cigar box with a razor knife. The ranger was fascinated. She had no idea what the old man would do next. 
He removed what appeared to be an empty dog food can from his bag. He pointed the can at the sky before looking inside it. He again nodded his approval, then covered the edge of the can with something from a jar. He sat the can down carefully as he cut a new hole in the cigar box. The hole he cut the second time was round. How he cut it without a guide she could only guess was years of experience. After the hole was cut, he coated the area around the box with the whatever was on the brush from the same brown bottle.
He put a couple of very large rubber bands on the contraption after he attached the can. At that point he removed a very small container, of what, she presumed was coffee. He leaned back to look at the lake while he sipped his coffee. With the show over, the young ranger went to unlock the boathouse. She knew the Sunday families and fishermen would be along any minute.
It was an hour later when she again passed the bench where the old man sat. He appeared to have drifted off to sleep. She noted his contraption on the bench beside him. The rubber bands had been moved, they no longer held the dog food can in place. Instead they held some kind of rectangular black thing to the square hole at the rear of the cigar box. She would have checked to see if he had died, had he not stirred slightly as she watched him.
She got busy with the park visitors for a while. When she next saw the old man he was awake and attentive. His contraption was on the little wooden table he had assembled. On top of the box there appeared to sit a pair of sox. At that point her curiosity got the best of her.
"Hi there how's it going?" she asked from her pickup truck parked behind the old man.
He held up his hand to silence her. She was about to explain she was the park ranger, when he put something over the end of the dog food can, then looked up at her. "Sorry I couldn't lose count. I'm not smart enough to do two things at once any more." With that he slipped the dark slide back into the film holder at the rear of the box.
"Is there a problem?" He asked showing her his dentures.
"No I was just curious. What is all that?"
He knew what she meant. "This," he said proudly. "Is a pinhole camera. Today is worldwide pinhole day."
"That's a camera?" She was very much surprised, both by the strength of his voice and his obvious dementia.
He laughed before he answered. "Before you call the men in white suits, let me explain." He went on to explain a little about the history of cameras. 
"Fascinating so what kind of pictures does it make."
"Not very good ones, but it is fun to be able to do something most folks can't do." He looked twenty years younger as he added, "So you see Ranger Jane, there really was photography before Nikon and digital cameras."
the end


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## JamesD (Apr 29, 2006)

Man, this pinhole day & paper negative thing has opened up a can of worms for me!  I've got all kinds of experiments going on now... determining exactly how light and dark the paper can be, calibrating for maximum contrast in print, and a bunch of other things... test strips, panels, and prints galore... enlarger settings, timing, apertures....  Y'all have unchained the scientific beast within me!

GRARGH!


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## JamesD (Apr 29, 2006)

By the way, this can be viewed as a good thing... Or at least, that's the way I prefer to view it. :mrgreen:


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## mysteryscribe (Apr 29, 2006)

See I knew I was doing this wrong>>> rofl


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## mysteryscribe (Apr 29, 2006)

But since you brought it up.... answer me this one...

I shoot paper negs outside at iso 5 and they are great.  I expect that I could do the same under a flood light.  Just a guess,,

What I do know for sure is that the iso number is different under what we used to call dead light.  Dead light being light deep in a shadow or that in a room with no really 'hot'  (another old unscientific term) light source.  Ie my studio with a small window light source.  

I can get a negative in there but I can never be sure of the exposure, since I can't work out the iso to use in my meter.  It just isn't consistant enough for me to figure it out.  What I have begun to do is shoot two exactly alike and vary the development after I see the first one.  A most unsatisfactory way to do it.

So what iso do you use in low light.


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## mysteryscribe (Apr 29, 2006)

This is my third ps... I am losing my mind... I am going to shoot the duaflex kodak twin lens brownie type that I converted to pinhole.  Some fool bought the argus and I don't want to risk damaging it.

I had to respool a roll of 120 film for it but she is ready to go.  Got the beer in the refrig and I'm all set to go.  I'm even looking forward to it.


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## JamesD (Apr 29, 2006)

Well, to tell the truth, I have as yet not done any pinhole photography anywhere except outside on a sunny day.  Nor have I established an ISO for shooting...

When I initially built my camera, I took it outside and made a couple of test shots.  I finally settled on a sunny-16 rule exposure of 50 seconds, give or take.  I wrote that down (along with the estimated aperture) on the camera and that's what I've stuck with.  Now, I merely adjust the exposure time as needed based on the negative.

Let's see... f/290, 1 minute exposure... that's what, ISO 6? (According to mrpinhole.com... I'm too lazy to figure out the math myself).

I know of someone on another forum who has done low-light pinhole photography; I'll try to get ahold of him and ask about it.

I'm curious about your development procedures.. what kind of developer do you use and what dillution?  How long do you normally develop the negative, and how do you vary development, and with what effects does that variation have?

I've been using Dektol 1:2 for 90 seconds, no real variation with it... perhaps I'm missing something here.


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## mysteryscribe (Apr 29, 2006)

Well now you have hit on an interesting point.  I develop my negs in a daylight tank.  So I'm trying to get a standard developing proceedure so I dont have to pull it or push it.  Thats why trying to find a lower light Iso is importrant.

I use a dektol clone mixed 1x7.  There standard mix is 1x9 for enlarger paper and 1x6 for contact prints.  1x7 seemed a compromise.  Then I add a half once of d76 to my 8oz mix.  I can use the mix for film or paper.  The film has a little grain but I like that.  I shoot all retro and primative now.

A standard paper is about 2 min.  But an interesting thing happened today.  I forgot to change my light meter and shot a sheet of 100iso film at 5 iso.  Instead of the usual 7 min I processed it 2 min.  The image is the one I posted under the retro thread here.

It seems that you can use that developer as a wide wide latitude developer.  I'm not going to shoot any more five stops off to test it, but it seemed to work pretty well.  Its the camp meeting shot ...

I have no idea what the d76 does but the mixture works really well for me.  The only problem with shooting paper negs and film together with different chemical mixes is that you are never exactly sure what you will get.  But as long as i get something I'm thrilled.  

It's actually more fun to adapt to the negative, than have the negative bend to my will.


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## JamesD (Apr 29, 2006)

Fascinating.  I was actually using Dektol 1:1 (oops) but I diluted it down to 1:5 this time, and it seems to be helping with my contrast issues.  Originally, I actually used TMax diluted for film (1:4?) but I opted to try the Dektol this time.  I've been tray developing; the trays are the cut-off bottoms of 1 gallon milk jugs... perfect size for 4X5.

This whole calibration thing is kinda involved, since I'm trying to figure it out pretty muchly from scratch, but it's fun.  I just need to get a standardized negative that covers the entire range of the paper, from base white to max density, so I can refine it for maximum detail in the positive contacts.  As it's been, I've been getting seriously blown highlights and blocked shadows, as you can see from the boot negative--well, the highlights, anyway.  It's possible, of course, that I'm overexposing.  That's one of the reasons I'm trying to get this test negative.

I'm not going to be left with any choice but to bracket come tomorrow, I think.  I think I probably am overexposing... and the expose for the shadows, develop for the highlights thing is only working marginally for me.

I'll tell you this, though:  I've learned a ton more today than in all the printing I've done before.

Anyway, I'm kinda rambling... waiting for Pizza to arrive before heading back into the darkroom.

BTW--I liked the story.  Nice to see another photog that shares my inclination toward writing.


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## JamesD (Apr 29, 2006)

The pizza just arrived.


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## terri (Apr 29, 2006)

JamesD said:
			
		

> The pizza just arrived.


Now, that just made me hungry.


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## mysteryscribe (Apr 29, 2006)

Then write some things.... And I cant be that detailed with the development any more. My eyes and senses are just going on me. I can use the negs on the scanner and that does some but it isn't like really getting in there.

Pizza is always good terry. The smell of turpentine, the taste of pizza and the buzz of red wine. Now where have i seen that before.


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## JamesD (Apr 30, 2006)

My pinhole photo is up on the pinholeday.org website!

http://www.pinholeday.org/gallery/2006/index.php?id=315

What think ye?


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## terri (Apr 30, 2006)

JamesD said:
			
		

> My pinhole photo is up on the pinholeday.org website!
> 
> http://www.pinholeday.org/gallery/2006/index.php?id=315
> 
> What think ye?


I think ye rawk! :thumbup:  

Great job!


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## JamesD (Apr 30, 2006)

Thank ye... I got incredibly lucky... after three failed tries, I made and added a reflector (crinkled aluminum foil!) and got an almost perfect negative.  I got really excited as I watched it develop.  Then, a little experimentation to narrow in on the right exposure for the print...  It was fun.

Sheer luck on the negative, though...


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## mysteryscribe (Apr 30, 2006)

My dad was a semi pro ball player he always said i would rather be lucky than good any day


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## photogoddess (May 1, 2006)

Digital pin hole.  I can't believe the dog held still for 30 seconds.


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## mysteryscribe (May 1, 2006)

amazing that the thing did... you did check the pulse after..  Nice picture you can't go wrong shooting animals..


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## photogoddess (May 1, 2006)

mysteryscribe said:
			
		

> amazing that the thing did... you did check the pulse after..  Nice picture you can't go wrong shooting animals..




I didn't have to check his pulse - he was awake. Lazy dog! :lmao: I'm definitely going to have to play with that pin hole cap more often.


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## mysteryscribe (May 1, 2006)

photographers and their toys rofl


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## photogoddess (May 1, 2006)

Yeah - we're a weird bunch alright.


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## terri (May 1, 2006)

photogoddess said:
			
		

> I didn't have to check his pulse - he was awake. Lazy dog! :lmao: I'm definitely going to have to play with that pin hole cap more often.


bahahahahahaha!!!! He is so cute. 

That worked great, Tammy - nice one! :thumbup:


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## ksmattfish (May 1, 2006)

Most of my grand intentions went awry.  I couldn't find my DIY DSLR pinhole bodycap.  The only local pro camera store doesn't keep 4x5 Polaroid in stock anymore.  I got the chance to run off to the Flint Hills, so I was mostly occupied shooting cameras with lenses, and I didn't attend any of the local pinhole day festivities.  

I had intended to get the right pin size to make the perfect f/stop hole in a piece of brass,  attach the pinhole to an actual shutter, carefully measure the focal length, and set the lens stops on the Speed Graphic rails.  I ended up using whatever pin I could find, jabbing it through the bottom of an aluminum pie pan, and gaffer taping it into an empty lensboard.  The shutter control was a combination of my hand, and the darkslide.  

I did stop and take 8 pinhole shots at an old one room school house out in the Flint Hills.  I'll try to develop and scan it tonight (if anything comes out).


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## mysteryscribe (May 1, 2006)

probably be the best you ever made


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## terri (May 1, 2006)

mysteryscribe said:
			
		

> probably be the best you ever made


Hear, hear.  Matt's pretty good at devising things off the cuff - almost as good as _you_, Charlie.  

I used to call Matt "the Pilgrim" for all the DIY stuff he'd throw together.  Remembering that, I am looking forward to seeing those images, too.


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## mysteryscribe (May 1, 2006)

I always wanted to be McGiver


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## JamesD (May 8, 2006)

mysteryscribe said:
			
		

> But since you brought it up.... answer me this one...
> 
> I shoot paper negs outside at iso 5 and they are great.  I expect that I could do the same under a flood light.  Just a guess,,
> 
> ...



Have you tried "flashing" the paper before you make the exposure?


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## mysteryscribe (May 8, 2006)

ya gonna have to explain that to me.


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## JamesD (May 8, 2006)

There's a certain low level of light which will not expose paper.  I've read it described as "chemical inertia," meaning that the photons hitting the silver just aren't enough to start the reaction.  The analogy given was pushing a car:  it's hard to get the car rolling when it's stopped, but once it's rolling, it doesn't take as much of a push to keep it rolling.  Similarly, the few photons striking the emulsion in very low light just aren't enough to get the silver changing to begin with.

So, flashing is a technique used under an enlarger (or in a pinhole camera, I would assume) which gets the chemical reaction going, so that the light hitting the emulsion won't have to "push" as hard, allowing very faint light to keep changing the silver in the emulsion.

Basically, what you do is expose the paper to light (enlarger light, room light, lamp light, whatever) either just bright and long enough to barely fog it, or just less than enough to barely fog it.  You'll have to develop it, of course, to figure out whether you're giving it enough light (or make sure you're not giving it too much).  Once you've figured out the right intensity and/or duration of the flash, you flash another piece of paper and load it into the pinhole camera.

Which brings us to the reason why I asked in the first place:  if you try flashing the paper, it might give the emulsion enough of a kick in the seat to record your low-light scene.

Beware, however:  I've also read that flashing is temporary.  If you flash a piece of paper, then put it away, the effect will disappear, and you'll have to flash it again.  I think this applies to flashes which are just barely too little to fog the emulsion; once you have fogged it ever-so-slightly, I think it keeps the fog--but I'm basically guessing on this.  I have no idea how long it takes the emulsion to forget that it's been flashed.


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## JamesD (May 8, 2006)

Do you suppose we should start a new thread, since we're not really talking about Pinhole Day anymore?


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## mysteryscribe (May 8, 2006)

We used to do that with slide film to kill some of the contrast.  I never heard of it for this purpose.  i would think you would need a stronger light that the low light of the studio.  Maybe aim it out the widow a the sky for a second or two then try it.  Im not sure.

Start the thread, call it what ever you like and ill join in.  This paper negative thing is going to need a lot more understanding than i thought.  It might well be like the original film emulsions.  Each situation called for a little differnt thinking.  It's really fun but not as realiable for me as film.


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## JamesD (May 8, 2006)

All Righty, I'll start a new thread, and link it to this one.  Then, I think it's off to bed for me.  Gotta get up early, unless the lightning keeps up.


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## mysteryscribe (May 14, 2006)

I have several pin hole cameras now and I have decided to::::: If i can find the shells for my shotgun (haven't fired it in 20+ years) to throw them into the air and put me out of my misery.... 

After I do that, I am going to cut a roll of film into sheets, load them into my film holders, and then develop them without any exposure.... Since I will miss wasting my time with pin hole cameras and need my daily anger managerment practice. 

After that I am going to patch the holes in my studio walls. I'm a retro photographer Pray for me...


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