# problem printing 20x30



## 8ball (Sep 30, 2010)

SO i went on to nations photo lab to print tonight a 20x30 picture i had it set up for 20x30 in photoshop with 300 ppi i upload it ti photo lab and it looked like crap


i live chatted the guy asked what original file size i told him 9x6 he says he doesnt think the file i have would work?


what do you think please help!!!!!


----------



## JasonLambert (Sep 30, 2010)

Just take the photo in it's original size and upload it to NPL. Crop in their program... When you select the 20x30 you will be able to slide the image and zoom.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 1, 2010)

i did that
but it looked like absolute crap when i did that when i zoomed in it was all blocky looking the guy told me to go into photo shop and view at 100% and how it looked at %100 in photoshop is how it would print and and looked like crap as well when i did that


----------



## MohaimenK (Oct 1, 2010)

can you post it here for us? Lets see


----------



## Robin Usagani (Oct 1, 2010)

what is the original pixel size?


----------



## 8ball (Oct 1, 2010)

orignal pixle size was 300 and when i changed image size to 20x30 the pioxle size is still 300 ppi 

they are on my laptop at home or i would post them here

im really frsutrated with this


----------



## MohaimenK (Oct 1, 2010)

8ball said:


> orignal pixle size was 300 and when i changed image size to 20x30 the pioxle size is still 300 ppi
> 
> they are on my laptop at home or i would post them here
> 
> im really frsutrated with this


 
No no, that's not what he asked. Give us the total pixles of the image. Like say I dont know 3220 x 5400? the PPI is different

Basically when you know that dimension and you divide it by PPI then it should be able to give you what the maximum size you can print it at. 
Although say a 4000 x 6000 pixels can be printed at 13.33" by 20" but at 100ppi same image can be printed at 32" by 60"  but obviously the PPI is less so you'll lose the quality in the latter


----------



## 8ball (Oct 1, 2010)

oh sorry when changed to 20x30 the pixle size changed to 6000x9000


----------



## MohaimenK (Oct 1, 2010)

8ball said:


> oh sorry when changed to 20x30 the pixle size changed to 6000x9000


 
I see, but your original size was probably much lower right? What camera are you using? See, that's the issue, when you bump up the size to something significantly larger, doing it on your own it will most likely not work. That's why its always better to send the actual image to the printing company and they use their own special software to blow the image out. Right now, you're doing it inhouse so you'll most likely have to re do the whole thing, don't bump the size and let them figure it out.

They assume you've done what they would do. Which is why the picture looks blocky. Let me know if I confused you anywhere LOL


----------



## MohaimenK (Oct 1, 2010)

Hey I think this will help you:

Enlarge Your Photos Without Sacrificing Quality - PCWorld

*The Wrong Way to Enlarge*

"You might remember that there's a resizing tool in your photo editing program. In Photoshop Elements, for example, you can choose _Image, Resize, Image Size_ and specify any size, bigger or smaller than the original photo.

Don't try that, though. Photo editing programs are fairly "dumb," and will just tend to duplicate pixels as needed to make the photo as big as you requested. The result is not pretty; your photo will turn into a blocky, pixelated mess.
In general, you should use your photo editor only to resize a photo smaller, never larger."

"*Try SmillaEnlarger*
What you need to enlarge a photo is a program designed just for the task. There are a number of commercial programs (and plug-in filters for Photoshop) that will do this. In the past, I've told you about Genuine Fractals, for example, and PCWorld reviewed the most recent version. Genuine Fractals uses fractal interpolation--very advanced math--to infer hidden detail when enlarging an image. The result can be Jack Bauer-style image improvements that can dramatically improve the appearance of a print compared to what you'd get with the low-resolution original. The downside? Genuine Fractals is expensive, clocking in at $160"


----------



## 8ball (Oct 1, 2010)

Mohaimenk it was alot lower yes like in the 2000x3000 range and it was shot form a nikon d60 not in RAW i will contact them about sneding them the orignal file and see what they say about blowing it up

will most places take the original and then blow it up correctly?


----------



## MohaimenK (Oct 1, 2010)

8ball said:


> Mohaimenk it was alot lower yes like in the 2000x3000 range and it was shot form a nikon d60 not in RAW i will contact them about sneding them the orignal file and see what they say about blowing it up
> 
> will most places take the original and then blow it up correctly?


 
Hey you were probably typing this the same time I typed my message. Just look at the post right above yours. I think it'll help :thumbup:

And yes that's their job, they do it w/ programs designed for it. So when you give them the original file, *make sure you do convert it to 300 dpi TIFF file at 16 bit. They won't take RAW files from you*


----------



## Robin Usagani (Oct 1, 2010)

Your original isnt good enough to print that size.  You can use a software to interpolate the pixels (adding pixels that were not there before) but the quality will not be close to be as good as if you had a larger file.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 1, 2010)

so moh is there any other way to do besides spending 160 bucks here is what nations said to me

*[Michelle]* it will show you in "document size"
*[Michelle]* in inches
*[Corey]* yes
*[Corey]* the doc size is 20x30
*[Corey]* 300ppi
*[Michelle]* you should be fine.
*[Michelle]* If you are unsure about your resolution in any way, you can put a note on the order when you place it with us and we will check it for you. No matter what, if we think you will not be satisfied with your prints, we will notify you and you will not be charged for the order.

DO you trust this?


----------



## 8ball (Oct 1, 2010)

schwetty what do you suggest you think im screwed trying to print this large?


----------



## MohaimenK (Oct 1, 2010)

8ball said:


> so moh is there any other way to do besides spending 160 bucks here is what nations said to me
> 
> *[Michelle]* it will show you in "document size"
> *[Michelle]* in inches
> ...


 
Interesting, they probably think you interpoloated the picture yourself. They don't realize that you probably just raised the pixles through "image size" (is that right?)

Do you have photoshop? If you do, get a cheap plugin for it and you can do it. But Robinson says he's done it w/ his photoshop CS4....

How to Use Interpolation in Photoshop | eHow.com


----------



## 8ball (Oct 1, 2010)

hmmm this should be interesting hahaha!


----------



## MohaimenK (Oct 1, 2010)

did you do any PP to your image? If so, do this, take the RAW file, open it to a 300ppi - 16 bit TIFF file and edit that. 
Don't change anything as far as sizing. Save the size of the image as is. Send it to the printer with your original size. They will change whatever needed to make it into 20x30


----------



## 8ball (Oct 1, 2010)

the file is not a raw file does that matter?


----------



## MohaimenK (Oct 1, 2010)

8ball said:


> the file is not a raw file does that matter?


 
Hmm...what file is it? If its not a RAW don't worry about converting it to anything. They accept in JPEGs & TIFFs in most printing companies


----------



## Boomn4x4 (Oct 1, 2010)

If your original was 2000 x 3000 and you print at 300 dpi, then the largest you can print the image in photo quality is a 6x10 (2000 / 300 X 3000 / 300).  To print larger, the printer has to enlarge each pixel which is why it looks like crap.

If you drop your dpi to 100, then you can print at 20"x30" without having to enlarge the pixels, but 100 dpi is much less than photo quality so you'll be trading off the photo quality there too.


----------



## MohaimenK (Oct 1, 2010)

Boomn4x4 said:


> If your original was 2000 x 3000 and you print at 300 dpi, then the largest you can print the image in photo quality is a 6x10 (2000 / 300 X 3000 / 300). To print larger, the printer has to enlarge each pixel which is why it looks like crap.
> 
> If you drop your dpi to 100, then you can print at 20"x30" without having to enlarge the pixels, but 100 dpi is much less than photo quality so you'll be trading off the photo quality there too.


 
Right......BUT they can do a better job at enlarging the pixles than him doing it at home. Or else, we wouldn't see those large poster boards on the sides of buildings or even a billboard.

The point is for him not to touch the size of the image and let the printer enlarge it. TRUST ME


----------



## Robin Usagani (Oct 1, 2010)

I am talking about the orignial pixels. For example if you have a 500D like me, my highest resolution out of camera (if I dont crop anything) is 4752x3168 (if you multiply it, you get 15.1 MP which is what my camera is. If I want to print a 30x20, my ppi/dpi is going to be 4752/30= 158 ppi/dpi. It will still look good if you have over 100 ppi but wont be as good as 300ppi.  at 158ppi my print will look good like a poster, but if you come closer you can see the pixelation a bit.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 1, 2010)

So what this all boils down to is send my files to the printer and tell them to enlarge them to the 20x30 size


----------



## Boomn4x4 (Oct 1, 2010)

MohaimenK said:


> The point is for him not to touch the size of the image and let the printer enlarge it. TRUST ME


 
and don't print at 300 dpi...print at 100dpi.  A 20x30" enlargement of a 6mp image printed at 300 dpi is going to look aweful.


----------



## MohaimenK (Oct 1, 2010)

8ball said:


> So what this all boils down to is send my files to the printer and tell them to enlarge them to the 20x30 size


 
YESS! They will figure out and interpolate the image for you with their software and it'll come out crisp (of course if the original one is crisp )


----------



## 8ball (Oct 1, 2010)

hahah thanks man!


----------



## Robin Usagani (Oct 1, 2010)

not guaranteed it will look good though. They may not even accept the file to print 30x20


----------



## MohaimenK (Oct 1, 2010)

Do share the pic w/ us when u get home LOL Now I wanna see what I've been talking about all morning long


----------



## 8ball (Oct 1, 2010)

i will for sure


----------



## 8ball (Oct 1, 2010)

youw ant ti fully blown out or the orig?


----------



## MohaimenK (Oct 1, 2010)

yes, let them interpolate (blow) it up from their location. Just tell them you want that image in 20x30 that's all


----------



## KmH (Oct 1, 2010)

The key to the maxmum size you can print is the pixel dimensions.

Raw data files cannot be directly printed. They must be converted to a printable format, like TIFF or JPEG. Many labs will not accept TIFFs because the file are *huge* compared to JPEGs and take up to much memory space.

Nations Photo Lab says they will only accept TIFFs that don't have any layers.
Nations Photo lab also says they require photos be in the sRGB colorspace and only have an 8-bit color depth. *** They also say they *require* a 300 dpi (sic) resolution, _indicating you should let them use their RIP software to interpolate the pixels to 300 ppi_, if you want a 20x30 print from a 2000x3000 px image.

FAQ: Nations Photo Lab (See #5)

If you have an image that is 2000 px by 3000 px and want to print it at 20" x 30" without interpolating the pixels, you will print at 100 ppi (Pixels per inch) 2000 pixels / 100 pixels-to-the-inch = 20" - just your basic 5th grade math. (see ***above)

By the way DPI only applies to printers that use dots to print. What you are ordering is a chromogenic print.

A chromogenic print is made by projecting your image onto light sensitive paper. (Nations uses Kodak Professional Endura Paper) The paper is then exposed to a couple of different chemcials that develope the print (RA-4 chemistry). There are no dots involved, just pixels, which is why dpi is an incorrect term.

_*How good a 100 ppi print will look, depends on the photo the print was made from, and how far from the print people viewing the photo are.*_ 

From six inches away, a 20" x 30",  100 ppi print won't look to good, but from 6 feet.........


----------



## 8ball (Oct 3, 2010)

sorry i am 2 days late but here is the image we were talking about


----------



## Bitter Jeweler (Oct 5, 2010)

Bumped for erose


----------

