# I have a pretty Good Business going, But how do I keep it going?



## MotionlessMemories (Mar 22, 2011)

So I love photography. I have been shooting photos for several years, but recently decided to make it into a business. Things are going well. I have had several clients and broken even to cover my start up costs, but all of a sudden things just slowed down. My website went dead for several days on end. 

I have adverting out there and I feel I have built up a pretty good client base for the amount of time I have been in business. So is there a way to lure more people in and keep existing clients coming back for more?

I take professional portraits, sell stock photos and have even started offering digital camera lessons. I have a Canon T2i, professional lights and backdrops, but still I am not bring in as many people as I hoped. Any ideas. 

If you want to see what kinda of images I take please visit my site and give me feedback as well. motionlessmemories

Thanks


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## PhotoWrangler (Mar 22, 2011)

MotionlessMemories said:


> So I love photography. I have been shooting photos for several years, but recently decided to make it into a business. Things are going well. I have had several clients and broken even to cover my start up costs, but all of a sudden things just slowed down. My website went dead for several days on end.
> 
> I have adverting out there and I feel I have built up a pretty good client base for the amount of time I have been in business. So is there a way to lure more people in and keep existing clients coming back for more?
> 
> ...


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## bazooka (Mar 22, 2011)

I'd say first you need to improve you're photographs. I looked at the ones under Portraits and they have problems, bad wb, mixed light, OOF, amputations, lack of sharpness, etc.  Are your clients coming back to you for more than one visit?


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## Bitter Jeweler (Mar 22, 2011)




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## DS Photographers (Mar 22, 2011)

You need to optimize your site.  See the thread I started here:
http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...earch-engine-optimization-tips-your-site.html

Your site doesn't even say where you are located.  When people look on Google, they look for photographers around their location (e.g. photographers in Chicago), so you should optimize your site based on where you are located.


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## e.rose (Mar 22, 2011)

bazooka said:


> I'd say first you need to improve you're photographs. I looked at the ones under Portraits and they have problems, bad wb, mixed light, OOF, amputations, lack of sharpness, etc.  Are your clients coming back to you for more than one visit?


 
I'm glad you said it because my initial response, before even beginning to read this thread was to say:  "My gut reaction is to say:  Improve your skill".


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## MotionlessMemories (Mar 22, 2011)

I am located in San Diego CA. And yes I know some of my work can use improvements. 

I do have clients that return once a month or so for various reasons, and most love my work. I know with time it will improve more and more. I came to this forum for advice so I am glad everyone is willing to help. If everyone thinks I need improvement, then where should I start? What are some good websites to refer to, or what kind of advice can people offer here? 

Also if anyone would like to share links to their work, that would be interesting. I love seeing other photographers work. 

Thanks


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## KmH (Mar 22, 2011)

Your pricing is insufficient for maintaining a legal, one person retail photography business.

Federal and State income/use taxes alone require at least 1/4 of your total revenue. Factor in your cost-of-doing-business (CODB) and cost-of-goods-sold (COGS) and there are not enough hours in a day for you to do enough business volume to make enough personal income to equal even the minimum wage.


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## tirediron (Mar 22, 2011)

Never mind any of that stuff, change your friggin name!  "Motionless Memories"????  My first impression is that you work for a funeral home!


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## RauschPhotography (Mar 22, 2011)

tirediron said:


> Never mind any of that stuff, change your friggin name!  "Motionless Memories"????  My first impression is that you work for a funeral home!


 
My thoughts exactly! :lmao:


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## e.rose (Mar 22, 2011)

tirediron said:


> Never mind any of that stuff, change your friggin name!  "Motionless Memories"????  My first impression is that you work for a funeral home!


 
  I can totally see that....


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## gsgary (Mar 22, 2011)

KmH said:


> Your pricing is insufficient for maintaining a legal, one person retail photography business.
> 
> Federal and State income/use taxes alone require at least 1/4 of your total revenue. Factor in your cost-of-doing-business (CODB) and cost-of-goods-sold (COGS) and there are not enough hours in a day for you to do enough business volume to make enough personal income to equal even the minimum wage.



You fogot to mention the photos are crap


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## DS Photographers (Mar 22, 2011)

Start by copying what this person is doing: San Diego Photographer| San Diego Family Photographer| Beach Family and Child Photography in San Diego, CA 

She is #2 on Google when you search for "san diego photographer".  Do you see her title tag includes San Diego Photographer?  

Also, look at all of the listings below her.  They are people that set up a free Google Places account here: places.google.com/business


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## KmH (Mar 22, 2011)

The photographer you linked to has a $195 sitting fee, no other products included.

No $40 CD's either.



> fine art wall portraits
> 24x30........................................$250


 
The OP has a discounted $10 sitting fee and for $50 more you get 8 4x6, 8 wallets, 2 5x7, 2 8x10 *and* a CD.


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## o hey tyler (Mar 22, 2011)

Invest in better lights, the ones you are using now are not professional lights. You're using continuous lighting for portraits, that's not really the best way to get quality portrait images, unless you're using the sun as a continuous light, or your continuous lights rival the brightness of the sun.


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## PhotoWrangler (Mar 22, 2011)

o hey tyler said:


> Invest in better lights, the ones you are using now are not professional lights. You're using continuous lighting for portraits, that's not really the best way to get quality portrait images, unless you're using the sun as a continuous light, or your continuous lights rival the brightness of the sun.



This is officially the dumbest thing I have heard to date....


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## o hey tyler (Mar 22, 2011)

ChristopherCoy said:


> o hey tyler said:
> 
> 
> > Invest in better lights, the ones you are using now are not professional lights. You're using continuous lighting for portraits, that's not really the best way to get quality portrait images, unless you're using the sun as a continuous light, or your continuous lights rival the brightness of the sun.
> ...


 
Why is that? Using low intensity hot lights with a shutter speed of 1/40s @ f/4 ISO 400 is what you would want to print and send to a customer? Maybe for your quality of work, not mine.


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## PhotoWrangler (Mar 22, 2011)

o hey tyler said:


> Why is that? Using low intensity hot lights with a shutter speed of 1/40s @ f/4 ISO 400 is what you would want to print and send to a customer? Maybe for your quality of work, not mine.




Of course not. But telling someone that they need lights that rival the sun is asinine.


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## o hey tyler (Mar 22, 2011)

Wow, you are far less intelligent than I had expected. Stranger to sarcasm are we? 

Should have used Comic Sans I guess.


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## vtf (Mar 22, 2011)

OP hasn't returned. :er:


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## chammer (Mar 22, 2011)

vtf said:


> OP hasn't returned. :er:


 
Perhaps they were assuming the typical family/Facebook types of responses on how great a photographer they are, and how great their images are. Fact is, as others have stated, the images are less than desirable so it's no wonder people don't come back or they don't have more customers. Now they have hurt feelings. Oh well...


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## MotionlessMemories (Mar 22, 2011)

What makes people think our photos are crap? I mean seriously I know they aren't completely professional by any means, but they are still some frekin good shots. I came her for advice on how to get better and all I have gotten was put downs, which is fine, but none of it was constructive. Telling me the lights I have are crap when you cant even tell what brand or model they are is a low blow. Having the best stuff doesn't make the best photos. Knowing how to use your crap gets you good photos. 

So if your are just going to talk crap then don't bother posting please.


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## chammer (Mar 22, 2011)

MotionlessMemories: I clicked through quite a few images, and every single one of them was out of focus to some degree. As others mentioned there were also white balance issues, and even a lot which were underexposed. Had you posted in the beginners section asking for assistance with your photos, you would have gotten it in a much nicer way. However, you posted in a section that professionals discuss issues in, and with photographs that do not match that skill level to be frank.

You asked for assistance with your business, and these photographs are very much your business. If they lack refinement, or are not what people want in any way, then you're not going to have a business. So yes, the harsh replies you received here in regards to the images themselves were actually exactly what you asked for despite your feeling otherwise.

On the plus side, there is potential. Some of the posing under your portrait work shows you have an eye, and/or are good at giving direction. There are some really nice poses and compositions going on. It's just sad that the focus, exposure, and white balance are off on the best ones.


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## e.rose (Mar 22, 2011)

MotionlessMemories said:


> What makes people think our photos are crap? I mean seriously I know they aren't completely professional by any means, but they are still some frekin good shots. I came her for advice on how to get better and all I have gotten was put downs, which is fine, but none of it was constructive. Telling me the lights I have are crap when you cant even tell what brand or model they are is a low blow. Having the best stuff doesn't make the best photos. Knowing how to use your crap gets you good photos.
> 
> So if your are just going to talk crap then don't bother posting please.


 
Perhaps you should look through your portfolio and post 5 of your BEST images here to be critiqued.  The images that you think are ABSOLUTELY flawless... next to perfect... and have us critique them.  THEN you will have a more thorough and constructive collection of tips and answers to help you better your craft.

I suggest, however, that you start a new thread for this purpose.

But I warn you... be prepared for CONSTRUCTIVE criticism... which DOES NOT mean "a pat on the head".  It means that if people find fault with your images, they WILL say so... but hopefully the answers they leave you will prompt questions from you that will aid us in helping you and/or already describe what it is you could do to improve.  This is a very helpful community, and I know it has helped MANY of us grow as photographers, but you have to post with a humble attitude, or else you won't get the types of responses you're seeking.


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## o hey tyler (Mar 22, 2011)

MotionlessMemories said:


> What makes people think our photos are crap? I mean seriously I know they aren't completely professional by any means, but they are still some frekin good shots. I came her for advice on how to get better and all I have gotten was put downs, which is fine, but none of it was constructive. Telling me the lights I have are crap when you cant even tell what brand or model they are is a low blow. Having the best stuff doesn't make the best photos. Knowing how to use your crap gets you good photos.
> 
> So if your are just going to talk crap then don't bother posting please.




Well, I did tell you that lights would be a better use of your money, but I didn't tell you why. 

I don't need to know what brand of continuous lights you have to tell you that they're not great for shooting portraits. 

When you're using a shutter speed of 1/40s @ f/4 ISO 400, that's not a very good setup to get quality images in a studio situation. For one, you can't go above a 40mm focal length, because you'll introduce even more camera shake or motion blur into the shot. Shooting at f/4 is probably not optically prime for your lens and would be tough to get a group of 3 staggered people in focus. Also, having your ISO at 400 is not helping your image quality or color reproduction in any aspect. While if you had strobes, you could shoot at 1/200s @ f/8 ISO 100 no problem. If you need more light, get a reflector or open your aperture before you turn up your ISO. The difference with having your shutter speed so high, and the flash duration so short, is that you can shoot at any focal length you want (within reason), and you won't have to worry about blurry or out of focus photos (as much). 

Hope this was better advice.


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## MotionlessMemories (Mar 22, 2011)

Alright I like that idea. Thank you


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## MotionlessMemories (Mar 22, 2011)

And thank you. Theses are things I am looking for. I do have high end lights along with a strobe flash, but no one has every really taught me how to set them up properly. The guy that worked at the store was not the most helpful person and my friend who is a photographer has not had much time to assist me. I am doing the best I can with the knowledge I have. I think with 2 continious lights and a strobe flash i should be set on lighting. as for keeping the entire image crisp and sharp, I don't know what to do. I focus around the eye because that is what I have been taught in all my years of classes. I try and shoot mostly at iso 100 but sometimes i cant help it. shutter speed varies but I try and keep the apature close to f4 as to blur the background effectively. 

Hopefully now with a little idea about how I shoot, this will start to uncover same basic flaws.


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## vtf (Mar 22, 2011)

MotionlessMemories said:


> Alright I like that idea. Thank you


 
To answer your question as far as the slow times I'm thinking that maybe you have to pursue repeat business. If you do senior portraits are you also offering family shots with the family a few weeks, months later. Are you calling your past clients and pushing additional portraits. You might consider freelancing for sports or school photography jobs. Right now there is a huge list of help wanted on craig's list.
Lastly is you quality affecting your return business. Doesnt hurt to call past clients and ask how they felt about the session and photo's they receive and offer discounts on future portraits.
I assure you if you post a few you will get good feed back, you will also get an honest feel how your peers see your images. Your images will improve if you work on the good suggestions.
Good Luck. :thumbup:


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## o hey tyler (Mar 22, 2011)

MotionlessMemories said:


> And thank you. Theses are things I am looking for. I do have high end lights along with a strobe flash, but no one has every really taught me how to set them up properly. The guy that worked at the store was not the most helpful person and my friend who is a photographer has not had much time to assist me. I am doing the best I can with the knowledge I have. I think with 2 continious lights and a strobe flash i should be set on lighting. as for keeping the entire image crisp and sharp, I don't know what to do. I focus around the eye because that is what I have been taught in all my years of classes. I try and shoot mostly at iso 100 but sometimes i cant help it. shutter speed varies but I try and keep the apature close to f4 as to blur the background effectively.
> 
> Hopefully now with a little idea about how I shoot, this will start to uncover same basic flaws.


 
One thing that you need to understand when shooting with flashed or 'strobed' light is that your shutter speed ONLY effects your AMBIENT light exposure. Meaning, you can shoot on 1/40s @ f/4 ISO 100 and expose for your continuous lights, but if your strobe is firing too, and you increase your shutter speed you will see that the strobe is still staying at a consistent exposure while your continuous lights drop in exposure. 

To control the output of your strobe you can adjust your aperture, which will also change your ambient exposure. If you could get a softbox of a shoot through umbrella for your flash, and chose to only slightly expose for your continuous lights, you'd be in better shape.  I am willing to bet that your continuous lights have a different WB than your flash, but I could be wrong.


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## e.rose (Mar 22, 2011)

MotionlessMemories said:


> And thank you. Theses are things I am looking for. I do have high end lights along with a strobe flash, but no one has every really taught me how to set them up properly. The guy that worked at the store was not the most helpful person and my friend who is a photographer has not had much time to assist me.


 
There are many of us here who haven't taken classes, haven't been "taught" by anyone how to set *anything* up, and don't have photographer friends.

Don't make excuses.

I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just saying...

There is a *wealth* of information to be had.  There are books... bookstores, libraries, amazon.com, half.com, are a couple of places to check out.  There are online forums ::motions around:: Ta-da!  There's Google which will point you to just about anything... there are youtube tutorials...

If you sit around waiting for specific classes to show you things before you try them, or sit around waiting for the guy at the store (who is, depending on where you go, probably not very knowledgeable himself), or your photographer friends (who are probably too busy with their own ventures to be at your ever beck and call), you're not going to get very far.

Be pro-active in your learning.

I'm not saying it HURTS to have friends that know and are willing to help you learn photography, but I'm saying don't sit around *waiting* for them.


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## vtf (Mar 22, 2011)

o hey tyler said:


> MotionlessMemories said:
> 
> 
> > What makes people think our photos are crap? I mean seriously I know they aren't completely professional by any means, but they are still some frekin good shots. I came her for advice on how to get better and all I have gotten was put downs, which is fine, but none of it was constructive. Telling me the lights I have are crap when you cant even tell what brand or model they are is a low blow. Having the best stuff doesn't make the best photos. Knowing how to use your crap gets you good photos.
> ...


 
Pretty typical settings for portrait with ocf. Will definately help with focus on subject.

*One last thing, you must have the constant and consistant drive to improve yourself**.* Find photography websites that are outrageously good, work to match their quality, read, study, practice. It won't be overnight but will happen as long as you are willing to improve.


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## orljustin (Mar 23, 2011)

Prices - motionlessmemories

"Calander" is spelled "Calendar".  "Enlargments" is spelled "Enlargements".  "Photshop" is spelled "Photoshop".

I mean, aside from the poor beginner level images, you can't even spell what you are offering.  It doesn't inspire a lot of confidence.

Portraits - motionlessmemories

As mentioned, your prices are low, and you obviously aren't running a legal business.

By the way, thanks for all the unwatermarked XXXL images.  The "Don't Cheat. Please support us by buying theses wonderful photographs" javascript didn't stop me.  Easy to find in cacheviewer - for example:
http://www.motionlessmemories.com/People/Photo-Shoot-2-27-11/15/1201843685_xYe2b-O.jpg


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## MotionlessMemories (Mar 23, 2011)

I will brace all of this advice and work hard on trying to improve my skills. As for the watermarking, I have had many people tell me yes do it, but more people have told me not to do it. 

The more I go along reading everything everyone has to say, the more I wonder if photography is something I should just keep as a hobby and not a business. 

I have a friend who is my age and has his own website. He is willing to teach me what he knows. Here is a link to his website. PhotographicCrow

If everyone thinks that he has potential to go somewhere with photography then maybe I can see if we can merge our efforts and create one solid business together. 

Does that sound like a good Idea? Let me know what you think of his work before I decide. Thanks


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## Bitter Jeweler (Mar 23, 2011)

You don't have to answer, but I am curious as to your age.


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## MotionlessMemories (Mar 23, 2011)

It is all good. I am 19 and a freshman at California State University San Marcos, CA majoring in business.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Mar 23, 2011)

Take heart! You have plenty of time to perfect your craft!
I wouldn't "give up", but don't expect a booming business so soon. Hang out on the forum here, you will get tons of help. In time you will see how many other people bought a camera last year and come here for help for everything from making a logo, picking a studio, website building, marketing, and then how to use light. Pretty much in that order. 

Lot's to learn, but you will. Drive and determination are a large part of the equation. Keep at it and good luck!!


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## e.rose (Mar 23, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> Take heart! You have plenty of time to perfect your craft!
> I wouldn't "give up", but don't expect a booming business so soon. Hang out on the forum here, you will get tons of help. In time you will see how many other people bought a camera last year and come here for help for everything from making a logo, picking a studio, website building, marketing, and then how to use light. Pretty much in that order.
> 
> Lot's to learn, but you will. Drive and determination are a large part of the equation. Keep at it and good luck!!


 
Agreed.  Have you posted your top 5 photos for C&C yet?


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## KmH (Mar 23, 2011)

It's entirely possible the OP's business is supported in part by other income.


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## vtf (Mar 23, 2011)

MotionlessMemories said:


> I will brace all of this advice and work hard on trying to improve my skills. As for the watermarking, I have had many people tell me yes do it, but more people have told me not to do it.
> 
> The more I go along reading everything everyone has to say, the more I wonder if photography is something I should just keep as a hobby and not a business.
> 
> ...


 
I think he would be an excellent mentor for you. He has some great shots (a lot). I took a look at his website and definitely enjoyed it. :thumbup:


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## bennielou (Mar 24, 2011)

"I take professional portraits, sell stock photos and have even started offering digital camera lessons. I have a Canon T2i, professional lights and backdrops, but still I am not bring in as many people as I hoped. Any ideas. "
​Ok, I'm jumping in on the middle of the first page, and this might be covered on later pages, but.............you are teaching photography seminars? Did I read that right?

Anyhoo, I think that you have gotten a lot of really good advice here. One being: Take you time.
You are making a decent start, but I think you would really benefit from watching some instructional videos (free all over the internet), reading tons of books (free at the library), hanging out with other photographers (meetup groups just about everywhere).
E. Rose has probably the best advice of all, and that is to put your fave shots up for crit. You will hear things you might not like, but I promise you, you will try not to repeat the mistakes. You grow that way. I'm not saying to take EVERYTHING to heart, but just think about what is being said, if you agree you messed up and that it could be better, and then go from there.

The way to keep your business going, is to have happy clients.  Blogging, webpimping, great talent, sales abilities, and all the rest don't matter if people aren't happy with a purchased product.  Good news travels fast, but bad news travels even faster.


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## msp1488 (Aug 9, 2011)

bump for updates


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## imagemaker46 (Aug 9, 2011)

MotionlessMemories said:


> What makes people think our photos are crap? I mean seriously I know they aren't completely professional by any means, but they are still some frekin good shots. I came her for advice on how to get better and all I have gotten was put downs, which is fine, but none of it was constructive. Telling me the lights I have are crap when you cant even tell what brand or model they are is a low blow. Having the best stuff doesn't make the best photos. Knowing how to use your crap gets you good photos.
> 
> So if your are just going to talk crap then don't bother posting please.



You claim to be running a professional business and yet you come out and say  "I know they aren't completely professional by any means"  I didn't get past looking at 1 page of thumbs, the photos aren't great, but if you are still running a  business then good for you, it just proves the point that the quality that people have come to accept has dropped off


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## RauschPhotography (Aug 9, 2011)

...am I the only one who thinks "Motionless Memories" sounds like a funeral service?


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## Destin (Aug 9, 2011)

To the OP: If you're serious about learning off camera flash, then check out this link:

www.strobist.blogspot.com 

That is, without doubt, the single largest single source of information on off camera flash in the world. Go through the lighting 101 and 102 sections (they are layed out in lessons, just like an online college class) and then get into the on assignment stuff. 

You'll only get out of it as much as you put into it, but there is enough information on that site to make you an EXPERT in off camera lighting, as long as you take the time to go through and abosorb it, and try each thing along the way. 

It took me well over a year to get through the entire site and do it all, but I did it, and am amazed by how much it taught me.


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## KmH (Aug 9, 2011)

MotionlessMemories said:


> maybe I can see if we can merge our efforts and create one solid business together.
> 
> Does that sound like a good Idea? Let me know what you think of his work before I decide. Thanks


Partnerships among family members often don't work.

Successful partnerships among un-related people is rare, and the un-successful partnerships make lawyers a lot of money when they come undone.


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## photogir2002 (Aug 10, 2011)

Maybe they thought you wouldn't be all pompous arrogant assholes like you usually are....could have warned the poor photograher not to come on here for legit advice. or at least not expect some crap responses mixed in. 





chammer said:


> vtf said:
> 
> 
> > OP hasn't returned. :er:
> ...


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## RauschPhotography (Aug 10, 2011)

photogir2002 said:


> Maybe they thought you wouldn't be all pompous arrogant assholes like you usually are....could have warned the poor photograher not to come on here for legit advice. or at least not expect some crap responses mixed in.



That's TPF for ya.. Sometimes you have to sift through the crap/drama in order to get a few valuable answers.


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## Bayouvixens (Aug 19, 2011)

....


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## mishele (Aug 19, 2011)

Thanks goodness I saw that this was an old thread before I read all of it. Why so many old threads popping up.......


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## JWellman (Aug 19, 2011)

mishele said:


> Thanks goodness I saw that this was an old thread before I read all of it. Why so many old threads popping up.......


My sentiments exactly. The thread was "bumped for updates" on page three. WTH? And don't people read the dates?


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