# Hello! Confusion over the Nikon D3200 and the Canon Rebel T3i



## Flash619 (Aug 5, 2012)

While I've googled for answers for two days finding many, many seem to be a bit miss leading, and lead to no real answer poping into my head. I've been trying for a few weeks now to do research, and pick out a, not the best, but a decent starter camera. I came across the decision mainly between these two. Price is not a difference since Amazon sells them both at the same rate. But I was confused when finding answers. Some claim one over the other, others claim that the Nikon is better, and some say it doesn't matter.

          While I've looked this over for some time, it seems as if the Nikons, exact specifications, may out-weigh the Canon Rebel T3I, the T3I still has some rather nice items to it, such as a swivel screen, an focus motor, and a better dpi on the screen, *including a larger viewfinder*. It seems they each have their own ups and downs, but to be completely honest. Video is not a concern to me, at all. I have a camcorder, I use that when and if I rarely take any video of any kind. *I thought camera's were for pictures... * 

           So that leads me to why I'm here typing up all of this. I would like a honest input on how important the differences are, and generally, if it matters. If you think that one is better than the other, please do tell me! But I also wish to learn why it is, and I don't mean the general fanboy "canon is better". They each have good points and bad point. I just want to know what you would recomend, and why. 

           Some other info...
1, I have a friend who has a Canon DSLR "forgot the model" and I have had the pleasure of using it a few times.
2, The only photography I can currently do is with my tablet, I however normally don't take many shots in the dark, though, there is always a possiblity that I may.
3, I tend to do a little bit more macro than landscape, but I still do them both from time to time. 

So...... Yea. Let me know what you think. 

I know there are other threads on this, but many seemed to say "There is not much info on the D3200 yet." Now I'm hoping that there is. 

I will happily await your responses! Thank you for any help! 

<also. If I said anything thats incorrect, please correct me. I'm in it for learning.>


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## orb9220 (Aug 5, 2012)

Comparing apple and oranges. As should be more T3i  vs. D90. As they are more closely matched feature wise. And D90 has been my main goto for last 3yrs. And far as I'm concerned best bang for the buck camera at the moment. Google on T3i vs. D90. Just because it's the newest doesn't mean the most flexible or fits the needs of the shooter. Sometimes it's about the additional controls and features that I use everyday. 

As has the built-in-motor for more lens choices. Built in flash commander mode for operating flashes off-show wireless for things like macro. More dedicated buttons for making changes without my eye leaving the viewfinder. Top lcd for tripod and night work. D3200 missing all that.

Macro work is going to be more about glass used,flash and tripod. And also subject matter. Staged? or out in the wild? Insects? or just flowers and non-moving subjects? Will dictate what macro lens to be used.


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## Flash619 (Aug 5, 2012)

orb9220 said:


> Comparing apple and oranges. As should be more T3i  vs. D90. As they are more closely matched feature wise. And D90 has been my main goto for last 3yrs. And far as I'm concerned best bang for the buck camera at the moment.
> 
> As has the built-in-motor for more lens choices. Built in flash commander mode for operating flashes off-show wireless for things like macro. More dedicated buttons for making changes without my eye leaving the viewfinder. Top lcd for tripod and night work. D3200 missing all that.
> 
> Macro work is going to be more about glass used,flash and tripod. And also subject matter. Staged? or out in the wild? Insects? or just flowers and non-moving subjects? Will dictate what macro lens to be used.



Thank you for your reply! 

Couldn't help but notice the 300 dolalr difference. xD *sigh

I really like your list of features that the D3200 is missing! It's nice to hear what there uses are too, such as the top lcd for tripod and night work. 

Usually I do macro of outdoors related items, such as flowers/plant life. If I could find a bug I would attempt it xD but that rarely if ever happens. 

General landscapes, stuff like that. You know, if I'm not too busy taking puctures of flowers and stuff. But if I go into the woods, I will probably try to at least take a few non macro pictures.

How does the T3I Compair with those features you listed? I'm attending college so...... excuse my cheapness.


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## KmH (Aug 5, 2012)

Canon's T3i (600D) was their 3rd unsucessful attempt to produce a camera that could compete with Nikon's best ever selling DSLR camera - the D90.

Here is a comparison of some of the measurements of image quality each camera's image sensor provides - DxOMark - Compare cameras side by side.


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## Flash619 (Aug 5, 2012)

KmH said:


> Canon's T3i (600D) was their 3rd unsucessful attempt to produce a camera that could compete with Nikon's best ever selling DSLR camera - the D90.
> 
> Here is a comparison of some of the measurements of image quality each camera's image sensor provides - DxOMark - Compare cameras side by side.



They seem generally close on the first page, but under the spec's there is a considerable difference with some things. 

The only real thing I have agains the D90 is the price.


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## KmH (Aug 5, 2012)

Which says that performance and usable features is much less important to you than price. You get what you pay for.

You can save some $$$'s on any brand by buying refurbished and/or from a reputable used seller like keh.com, or the used departments at Adorama.com and BHPhotoVideo.com

Nikon D90 12.3MP DX-Format CMOS Digital SLR Camera with 3.0-Inch LCD (Body Only)


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## Flash619 (Aug 5, 2012)

KmH said:


> Which says that performance and usable features is much less important to you than price. You get what you pay for.
> 
> You can save some $$$'s on any brand by buying refurbished and/or from a reputable used seller like keh.com, or the used departments at Adorama.com and BHPhotoVideo.com
> 
> Nikon D90 12.3MP DX-Format CMOS Digital SLR Camera with 3.0-Inch LCD (Body Only)



Hey, I love features as much as the next person, but I kinda just had to buy a new 600 dollar tablet, and I am expecting to save up for at least over 6 months for this purchase. I could also go ahead and by a $4k  camera, but I need to limit myself somehow. I would like the idea of usable features for the future when I do eventually excell to that level. But money is a bit tight. Hopefully if I find a decent part time job in the local area, that won't be much of an issue, but at the moment it is. So if something changes in the next year, by all means I'll probably go for more features. But at the moment, from a conservative standpoint, I have to be cheap and plan carefully. xD

Also, about buying referbished. I always worry about that, usually referbished = less warrenty and the posibility of an early failure. The only referbished item I have ever purchased was a 60 dollar EHD for college, it died after 2 years, but the default manufacturure warrenty was only 2 years anyways. However because it was referbished it did indeed, only have a 3 month warrenty. So I supose, at times, they do work just as good, but I worry about what if situations, and probably. Would on a expensive camera, get a accidental warrenty as well. 

So you see its really, 700 for a camera, 125 for a 3 year ADH, 35 or so for a memory card, + case, and eventually adding lenses. 

Whats your input on referbished equipment? Have you had good luck with it in your own expirience?

Trust me, if I do get money, the D90 may be in the books.


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## KmH (Aug 5, 2012)

I usually bought used (no warranty), and I was buying pro grade gear, like $4000 used lenses, and $3000 used camera bodies.


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## orb9220 (Aug 5, 2012)

My D90 and all my lenses bought used craigslist without issues. D90 was 17k clicks on it when I bought nov. 10' and now has 63k clicks on it and still clickin'.

You can pay less now and then more over time. As less lens options. Example 50mm f1.8 AF-D $125 or 50mm f1.8G AF-S $200 is the only one that will AF on the entry camera's. Flash and no commander mode on camera. Then will have to buy some radio triggers to fire flashes off shoe and no CLS TTL that a camera with commander mode can give you. Allow you to adjust flashes from the camera.

No true fully integrated grip on entry camera's. But just an IR based with less controls over camera.

Ti3 body only is $580 D90 is $729 and that $140 difference is well worth in my option. As I did start with a lesser entry camera and was frustrated within 9 months with the lack of features I needed to grow into. Not one I possibly grow out of my first year. And wasting monies on more costly AF-S lenses and getting poppers for flashes etc... And end up spending just as much if not more in the long run. Also wasted time learning a new camera latter when I could be mastering the one that would take me the furthest down the line in the first place.
.


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## Flash619 (Aug 5, 2012)

orb9220 said:


> My D90 and all my lenses bought used craigslist without issues. D90 was 17k clicks on it when I bought nov. 10' and now has 63k clicks on it and still clickin'.
> 
> You can pay less now and then more over time. As less lens options. Example 50mm f1.8 AF-D $125 or 50mm f1.8G AF-S $200 is the only one that will AF on the entry camera's. Flash and no commander mode on camera. Then will have to buy some radio triggers to fire flashes off shoe and no CLS TTL that a camera with commander mode can give you. Allow you to adjust flashes from the camera.
> 
> ...



When I do eventually get it, I will likely get it with the default lense, and slowly over time, purchase more lenses and build a nice set of equipment. 



> [You can pay less now and then more over time. As less lens options. Example 50mm f1.8 AF-D $125 or 50mm f1.8G AF-S $200 is the only one that will AF on the entry camera's. Flash and no commander mode on camera. Then will have to buy some radio triggers to fire flashes off shoe and no CLS TTL that a camera with commander mode can give you. Allow you to adjust flashes from the camera.
> 
> No true fully integrated grip on entry camera's. But just an IR based with less controls over camera.



....That confused me....:meh:

So about referbished equipment, does Nikon itself offer any type of warrenty on the referbished equipment if bought through a seller on Amazon or something like that? I just worry that if I do get referbished, that it will die imediatly after the default 90 day warrenty, whereas the new condition has one year. Plus you can get a outside warrenty service to cover it for 3 years. Any input on that? 

So long story short, get a camera that has a lot of nice features and options, so I don't need to spend as much money and give as much frustration in the long run?


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## KmH (Aug 5, 2012)

Nikon includes a 90 day warranty on gear they have refurbished. Some Nikon authorized sellers of Nikon refurbished gear then add their own, additional 9 months of warranty.

Not all Nikon refurbished Nikon gear was refurbished by Nikon. Pay close attention to the various advertisements.

While Nikon closely checks every 1000th or so new camera that comes down the new camera assembly line, *every* *single* refurbished Nikon camera/lens/flash unit gets the same close inspection.


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## Flash619 (Aug 5, 2012)

KmH said:


> Nikon includes a 90 day warranty on gear they have refurbished. Some Nikon authorized sellers of Nikon refurbished gear then add their own, additional 9 months of warranty.
> 
> Not all Nikon refurbished Nikon gear was refurbished by Nikon. Pay close attention to the various advertisements.
> 
> While Nikon closely checks every 1000th or so new camera that comes down the new camera assembly line, *every* *single* refurbished Nikon camera/lens/flash unit gets the same close inspection.




I know, I just may go for new though, because SquareTrade only offers 1 year warrenties to referbished cameras, as per their 3 year warrenty on new devices. :/ 

I also figure getting it new may be better in some way? I mean, idk. I'm just saying....  If I get a new one, and it doesn't work, I can always send it back, but if I get a referbished one that dies after a year, I just lost 800. >_< Either way its money lost. But I would rather try to loose the smaller ammount. 

I just wonder if the life span is any different. Used/referbished vs New. There is deffinetely a warrenty difference. 

Any comment on this? I'm truely interested, but I seem to have poor luck, so I worry about everything.


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## orb9220 (Aug 5, 2012)

Square trade is a good 3rd party warranty. And if you are just going to spend a year worrying about camera dying. Then that takes out a lot of the joy in photography. 

Refrubs,used, & new are all the same camera. Whether you get one that lasts and last or dies near the first year is just the luck of drawing straws. The majority have gone on years after being bought. And beyond their rated shutter life at 2x or 3x rated shutter life.

To reach rated shutter life on a D90 the first year means you would have to shoot 2000 clicks a week for it to reach 100,000 clicks.

Personally I think you are giving way too much attention to unwarranted and undefined fears that is taking the fun out of starting a new artistic pursuit. Barring that then buy new and extended warranty if it will give you piece of mind.

As to grip for it it gives you just a IR based shutter button. as not making any true connections to camera like the D90 which makes actual connections to camera with additional controls on grip like 2 command wheels AE/AF button giving more in hand adjustments right in the grip for vertical shooting.
.
.


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## Flash619 (Aug 6, 2012)

orb9220 said:


> Square trade is a good 3rd party warranty. And if you are just going to spend a year worrying about camera dying. Then that takes out a lot of the joy in photography.
> 
> Refrubs,used, & new are all the same camera. Whether you get one that lasts and last or dies near the first year is just the luck of drawing straws. The majority have gone on years after being bought. And beyond their rated shutter life at 2x or 3x rated shutter life.
> 
> ...



Yay features! 

A shutter click rating is like the maximum time before failure on a Power Supply for a computer. It basically just means that it shouldn't die before then, and that it will probably, live way past that.

As for me worrying about everything. xD I'm just trying to make sure, I gon't have to buy the thousand dollar camera twice. At the same time I look at the fact that  I could save about 200 dollars, but then, I have to ask myself if the 2 - 3 hundred is worth the extra 3 years I could get through square trades warrrenty. "Because on referbished gear, square trade only offers one year. vs thier 3 year warrenty on new." 

So you can see why I have a hard time making this decision.

No I do not plan on worrying about it dying every waking hour of every day, if it does. Thats what the warrenties are for. In a way, I feel the referbished are more garenteed to work than the new products. But at the same time, warrenty limitations are the only downside to saving the 200. :/

So...... that leads me back to the begining again.

I should also point out, that I'm mearly getting Square Trade for the accidental protection plan.

Haha, and it's not like I'll be buying it tomorow. I have 759 dollars to pay off first from a tablet and server hardware. Probably some time after six months I'll get it...... somewhere around there.... Because after the first semester, I'm not longer full time and may actually have enough time to get a job to afford myself, yay.


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## jimithing (Aug 6, 2012)

I wouldn't say the T3i to D90 is an apples to apples comparison.  I think the closest comparison in Nikon's lineup is the D5100.  Whichever you're comparing I would highly suggest you go to a camera shop and hold them each in your hands and take some shots with them to make sure they feel comfortable.  The Nikon's felt too small for me.

Whichever camera you decide to buy I think buying used is perfectly acceptable.  If you're patient you can find decent deals on Ebay.  There's also craigslist but IMO unless you are able to evaluate a piece of camera equipment in 5 minutes you shouldn't go that route.  If you buy something and then get it home only to discover one of the features is broken then you have no recourse.  I bought a used T3i with 120 clicks for much less than it would have cost new.


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## Flash619 (Aug 6, 2012)

jimithing said:


> I wouldn't say the T3i to D90 is an apples to apples comparison.  I think the closest comparison in Nikon's lineup is the D5100.  Whichever you're comparing I would highly suggest you go to a camera shop and hold them each in your hands and take some shots with them to make sure they feel comfortable.  The Nikon's felt too small for me.
> 
> Whichever camera you decide to buy I think buying used is perfectly acceptable.  If you're patient you can find decent deals on Ebay.  There's also craigslist but IMO unless you are able to evaluate a piece of camera equipment in 5 minutes you shouldn't go that route.  If you buy something and then get it home only to discover one of the features is broken then you have no recourse.  I bought a used T3i with 120 clicks for much less than it would have cost new.



Unfortunettely, WalMart's in the area don't cary many DSLR's, and we have no real camera shops in the nearby area. >_< 

I have held one though, but different models may feel different. But I've used both Nikon and Canon, I like them both to be honest, they each are ergonomic. 

Well thats part of my worry. I can't actually hold the referbished item before I buy it, I mean, 90 day warrenty..... hmn.


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## KmH (Aug 6, 2012)

Few 3rd party warranties are worth the money. Stores love selling them, because they are very nearly 100% profit.

I've never bought one for any kind of consumer electronics.


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## Flash619 (Aug 6, 2012)

KmH said:


> Few 3rd party warranties are worth the money. Stores love selling them, because they are very nearly 100% profit.
> 
> I've never bought one for any kind of consumer electronics.



Well, yea. If you buy the warrenty, and you never have to warrenty it while it's in the warrenty period. Then it was a waste. But suppose it does happen after two years, where I go to my new camera, and something small, like the af motor is shot. >_> I would only need the body, but it's still a 800 dollar body. Now I'm not saying that it will live forever. I do understand very well, that it could live through the three years, then die the day after. But It's really luck of the draw, and I honestly, consider my luck to be less than good. I would probably be the only person you know, who would get a referb on a D90, and get it broken four months later. I will admit though, the tablet dying was my fault...... a friend of mine left it outside..... in the rain. 

I mean, sure if the camera does break out of warrenty, you can get things repaired. But I worry that those are going to be the same price as a new camera. Of course it depends on sevarity. But still. 

The price of everything plus new + warrenty = 1.25k The price referb'd and no third party warrenty = 877. So It's worth discussing. 

Also, I should point out, I have not decided on anything at this point, and any idea is still a possibility.

Also, whats your comment on buying referbished from places like Amazon sellers, not ebay.... I won't buy a 800 dollar camera on ebay. xD Not unless I can touch it first. Or at least get exact details and a good return policy.


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## Flash619 (Aug 6, 2012)

So does anyone have any recommended places to buy the Nikon D90 new from? Just courious on your list of stores. ^^


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## DScience (Aug 6, 2012)

It seems as though you are just stepping into the photography world. A word of advice: *many* photographers (including myself) baby their gear. Thus _used_ gear on craigs list is often times the best deal. I have gotten a 85 1.4D in MINT condition a year ago for relatively cheap, and I got one of my most favorite lenses, the 105mm 1.8 AIS for like $150 and the glass on this thing is PERFECT. 

Just keep an open mind. I have seen mint D90's with around 1000 count for around $500.


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## Flash619 (Aug 6, 2012)

DScience said:


> It seems as though you are just stepping into the photography world. A word of advice: *many* photographers (including myself) baby their gear. Thus _used_ gear on craigs list is often times the best deal. I have gotten a 85 1.4D in MINT condition a year ago for relatively cheap, and I got one of my most favorite lenses, the 105mm 1.8 AIS for like $150 and the glass on this thing is PERFECT.
> 
> Just keep an open mind. I have seen mint D90's with around 1000 count for around $500.




3 people in my area on craigslist are selling, but none seem to list how many clicks in the camera's are. >_< *sigh..

Also, the lowest price is 800, which is still about 300 off retail, but the question, is it worth it........ :/


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## KmH (Aug 6, 2012)

Many using entry-level gear have no clue how to use the gear, let alone find out how many shutter clicks. Do you know how?


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## Flash619 (Aug 7, 2012)

KmH said:


> Many using entry-level gear have no clue how to use the gear, let alone find out how many shutter clicks. Do you know how?



I know what you mean, but if I where to sell something with a bunch of features, and a nice price. I would look at other used sellers listings to see how they did it. Possibly google important factors to look for while buying one, to know what to show people when selling.

Also, Let me google that for you
No, Until now, I didn't know how. But as I said, I'm in this for learning. ^^;

Anything else I should know?


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## EDL (Aug 7, 2012)

Just be aware the real money in photography is in the lenses, not the body.  If you buy into the game and decide to pursue it much, you will invest heavily in the glass.  Along the way you'll most likely upgrade/change bodies as you go (as your skills increase, as newer technology comes along, etc).  So, make up your mind if you want Nikon or Canon now because once you have a few thousand in glass, you don't want to have to try and switch brands later and start buying lenses all over again.

With that said, based on the stats, etc the Canon T3i is more in line with the Nikon D5100 than the D90.  Either way the sub-$1000 cameras are all entry-level DSLR's.  That doesn't mean they aren't capable of good shots, it just means they lack some of the features of the higher priced gear, like weather sealing, metal bodies instead of plastic, more knobs and buttons instead of menu diving, etc.

Across the board, pretty much any of the major brand cameras are on par with each other.  Some offer slightly different features and depending on the kind of shooting you want to do those differences might dictate your choice.  

Nikon is typically considered better for low light shooting as they seem to produce less noise at higher ISO settings (google around and see for yourself).  The D3200 you mentioned however may be an exception due to the tighter pixel density on the sensor (tighter pixel densities typically translate into more electronic noise).

I waffled back and forth on Canon and Nikon for a while and ultimately decided on the Canon T3i primarily because I want to do macro and I want the Canon MP-E65 lens ( a dedicated macro lens capable of 5:1..Nikon has no equivalent).  Yes, you can do macro with Nikons, but unless you are happy with just 1:1, the set up requires different pieces parts like extender rings, reversing rings or bellows.  You can get the same results, but the MP-E65 is self contained, super portable and more convenient.  I also wanted the swiveling LCD of the T3i (and it has already been used in the short time I've had my T3i).  It makes odd-angle shots from low to the ground, or on a small tripod, or over things much easier.  Some don't like or care for a swiveling LCD, but I do.

As for quality of shot, you'll find any number of renowned pro's using Nikon and Canon.  Both brands are very capable and produce high quality shots as long as you do your part.

Do yourself a favor and go handle each of the brand/models you are interested in.  It does make a huge difference as the Nikons are physically slightly smaller than the Canon.  I have big hands so the Canon fit me better too.  

Don't get too caught up in all the button vs menu diving as entry level cameras are going to have a lot of menu diving in general vs the higher dollar cameras.  

Based on what you have posted, the D5100, D3200, T2i, T3i or D90 would suit you just fine.


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## Flash619 (Aug 7, 2012)

To me they both feel fine. 

I was planning on going with the D90


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## EDL (Aug 8, 2012)

Nothing wrong with that choice at all.


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