# Pro Camera + Gear for under $20k



## ThatAudiGuy (Apr 14, 2016)

Hi there,

New to the forum. So, I am contemplating on selling my car (I have an offer for $22k), as I'll be getting a company car in about two weeks time. I've been an avid photographer for the past 4 years and developed most of what little skill I have, on a Pentax K-3 & Pentax K-3 II with the following lenses:

1. 18-135mm f3.5
2. 50mm f1.4
3 18-35mm f1.8 (Sigma)
4. 50-200mm F4-5.6

All of the above are APS-C lenses.

Over the past 6 months or so, I've also been contemplating on getting into commercial photography, but the equipment and gear costs were holding me back. Now that I have this opportunity, I've been seriously putting some thought into getting some pro-level gear with around $20k at my disposal.

What kind of gear would you get if you were starting from scratch, with in-studio product photography in mind.

Equipment needed:

1. Full-Frame camera + a couple of lenses.
2. Decent lighting equipment.
3. A decent editing rig (Laptop or Desktop)

I've been thinking about the new Pentax K-1 but the disadvantages are outweighing the advantages for me. For example; the K-1 would only shoots at 16 mpix when using DA series lenses. Really outdated video spec, 1080p @ 30fps in 2016 is appalling.

What would you guys get? Any alternatives ideas are welcome too.

Thanks!


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## robbins.photo (Apr 14, 2016)

If it were me?  I'd look at a Nikon D750.


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## ThatAudiGuy (Apr 14, 2016)

robbins.photo said:


> If it were me?  I'd look at a Nikon D750.



That leaves me with $18k. What about lenses, lighting equipment and a PC, lol.


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## tirediron (Apr 14, 2016)

I'd get a real job with a regular salary and keep my car!  You know what the difference between a professional photographer and a large pizza is, right?  The large pizza can feed a family.


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## ThatAudiGuy (Apr 14, 2016)

tirediron said:


> I'd get a real job with a regular salary and keep my car!  You know what the difference between a professional photographer and a large pizza is, right?  The large pizza can feed a family.



Lol, but I am keeping my job, thats part of the reason why I am selling my car as I'll be getting a company car in a couple of weeks. Aaand, I am not married, nor do I have kids.


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## robbins.photo (Apr 14, 2016)

ThatAudiGuy said:


> robbins.photo said:
> 
> 
> > If it were me?  I'd look at a Nikon D750.
> ...



Well lenses is going to depend entirely on what you shoot.  If your doing mostly portrait or product photography work, probably a 24-70 2.8 and a 70-200 2.8 would cover you for the vast majority of the stuff you'd want to shoot.

If your looking more at architecture or landscape, maybe an ultrawide of some sort.

As to a PC - anything with a decent amount of memory and a halfway decent processor will work just fine.


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## FotosbyMike (Apr 14, 2016)

Well if had that money I would look at these items:
Body - Canon 5DSR
Lenses (depends on subject) - Canon or Tamron 24-70 2.8, Canon 100mm 2.8 Macro and a 70-200 2.8
Strobes -  3-4 PCB Einstin's or Dyanlite's, Hensel or Broncolor depends on what you are shooting
Very nice tripod or Studio stand
6-10 C-Stands for strobes/rolls of Rasco paper/holding bounce cards...etc.
As for PC, I agree with Robbins.Photo this can and will turn in to PC vs Mac

But first if you haven't shot studio work before I would *highly* recommend attending some workshops first or buy a few tutorials from RGGEDU, Karl Taylor's Pro Courses to see if this is something you really want to do.


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## tirediron (Apr 14, 2016)

I guess a more important question is:  What is your ultimate goal with this?  Do you want to actually make a living from it, or enough to buy some new gear now and then, or just have fun?


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## waday (Apr 14, 2016)

I know this is a little off topic (but still relative considering you're contemplating selling your car), so I apologize, but would you be able to afford a car if your company car disappears?

I thought my company was pretty stable being around 50K employees, until it got bought out by another 50K employee company. Then, the layoffs started happening (thankfully, I'm still here). Changes in organization. Changes in benefits. Changes in policies. Office location consolidation. More layoffs. More changes in organization. More layoffs. You never know what lies ahead.

Can you use your company car on personal trips? What if you go out of town on vacation, are you going to rent a car or will your company be ok with you using the car for personal reasons? If you get into a car accident while using it for personal reasons, will they cover the damage? Will you have to record mileage?

If I were in the same situation, I probably wouldn't sell unless I had a guaranteed way to get around, such as reliable public transit. Public transit around me is horrible. Also, I don't have the resources (i.e., capital) to make such big changes often, so I'm a bit more conservative with my approach.


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## sscarmack (Apr 14, 2016)

Well I hope your current company doesn't fire you in the next year or so and you lose your car and your 22k. Yikes.

Talk about poor planning......

But hey, at least you'd have cool new gear.


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## robbins.photo (Apr 14, 2016)

sscarmack said:


> Well I hope your current company doesn't fire you in the next year or so and you lose your car and your 22k. Yikes.
> 
> Talk about poor planning......
> 
> But hey, at least you'd have cool new gear.



If it were me, put a 3-4 grand into a nice little kit and put the rest in the bank.. but, probably just me.


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## Braineack (Apr 14, 2016)

ThatAudiGuy said:


> Over the past 6 months or so, I've also been contemplating on getting into commercial photography, but the equipment and gear costs were holding me back. Now that I have this opportunity, I've been seriously putting some thought into getting some pro-level gear with around $20k at my disposal.


the equipment is what was holding you back?  Your're going to take just as bad of pictures with this pro equipment.

Where did the original funds for the car come from?


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## gsgary (Apr 14, 2016)

If you can't do it with what you already have you will be wasting 
$22k

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk


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## Didereaux (Apr 14, 2016)

Well, I am shocked!  No one has even hinted at what you will need to go with that top $$$ gear.... a STUDIO!.   Not just any studio a good one, with great natural lighting as well as enough space for some more advanced sets.  Yes. a fellow like yourself that has thought all this out, is certain of his future job-wise and even has the transportation thing solved...I would think such a fellow would find a studio and sign at least a two year lease.


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## spiralout462 (Apr 14, 2016)

ThatAudiGuy said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> > I'd get a real job with a regular salary and keep my car!  You know what the difference between a professional photographer and a large pizza is, right?  The large pizza can feed a family.
> ...



Which is why you have 20k to spend on yourself.


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## astroNikon (Apr 14, 2016)

use your existing camera equipment

practice
take lessons / shadow / photo clubs   to improve your abilities.

then when you feel the camera is holding you back, then buy a nice camera with the money you set aside for yourself.


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## ThatAudiGuy (Apr 14, 2016)

FotosbyMike said:


> Well if had that money I would look at these items:
> Body - Canon 5DSR
> Lenses (depends on subject) - Canon or Tamron 24-70 2.8, Canon 100mm 2.8 Macro and a 70-200 2.8
> Strobes -  3-4 PCB Einstin's or Dyanlite's, Hensel or Broncolor depends on what you are shooting
> ...



Thank you very much! And yeah Karl Taylor is part of the reason why I chose product photography, I've shot for a couple of local businesses with my K-3 II, its been a challenge, with no lighting except for a couple of Yongnuo speedlights on sticks, lol. But I enjoyed it thoroughly, shooting in multiple exposures to make-up for poor lighting.

Yes, I have purchased a few photography tutorials by Karl Taylor, FStoppers and Serge Remelli (mostly for Lr and Ph), I'd love to attend one of Kar Taylors workshops but they sell out pretty quickly.

I appreciate your input.


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## ThatAudiGuy (Apr 14, 2016)

tirediron said:


> I guess a more important question is:  What is your ultimate goal with this?  Do you want to actually make a living from it, or enough to buy some new gear now and then, or just have fun?



Yes, my ultimate goal is to make decent money from photography. But I want it to be a steady transition from my current profession into photography, as soon as I am able to have a decent enough clientele, I'd be willing to quit my job and become a full-time photographer.

Worst case scenario; I am unable to break into the industry, I still have a ton of cool gear I can play around with.


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## ThatAudiGuy (Apr 14, 2016)

waday said:


> I know this is a little off topic (but still relative considering you're contemplating selling your car), so I apologize, but would you be able to afford a car if your company car disappears?
> 
> I thought my company was pretty stable being around 50K employees, until it got bought out by another 50K employee company. Then, the layoffs started happening (thankfully, I'm still here). Changes in organization. Changes in benefits. Changes in policies. Office location consolidation. More layoffs. More changes in organization. More layoffs. You never know what lies ahead.
> 
> ...



I am 27, single and working as an assistant finance manager for an SME, I've always been good with my finances, I have zero debt, no credit card fees, no school loans, mortgages, also with a company car, my current wheels are an overhead I don't really need, hence why I want to get rid of it. Besides, I've got enough saved up that I could take a break for 16 months and not worry about my cash flow.

Moreover, the company that I work for does not have an SOP as such regarding company vehicles do's and don't, we have no mileage restrictions, the vehicles are fully insured and we refresh our entire fleet of vehicles once every 24 months.

And as for a backup car, my parents have an old Lexus LS460 they barely use, that I can "borrow" if I ever needed to. And by borrow I mean, just take it, lol.


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## waday (Apr 14, 2016)

ThatAudiGuy said:


> I am 27, single and working as an assistant finance manager for an SME, I've always been good with my finances, I have zero debt, no credit card fees, no school loans, mortgages, also with a company car, my current wheels are an overhead I don't really need, hence why I want to get rid of it. Besides, I've got enough saved up that I could take a break for 16 months and not worry about my cash flow.
> 
> Moreover, the company that I work for does not have an SOP as such regarding company vehicles do's and don't, we have no mileage restrictions, the vehicles are fully insured and we refresh our entire fleet of vehicles once every 24 months.
> 
> And as for a backup car, my parents have an old Lexus LS460 they barely use, that I can "borrow" if I ever needed to. And by borrow I mean, just take it, lol.


Good for you! (I'm being sincere, not sarcastic! ) If you have the money to splurge and you know it won't impact your future, splurge away. haha


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## fmw (Apr 14, 2016)

If it were me I would probably put the money in the bank in case I need to buy a car in the future.  But, of course, that isn't what you wanted to hear.


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## ThatAudiGuy (Apr 14, 2016)

Didereaux said:


> Well, I am shocked!  No one has even hinted at what you will need to go with that top $$$ gear.... a STUDIO!.   Not just any studio a good one, with great natural lighting as well as enough space for some more advanced sets.  Yes. a fellow like yourself that has thought all this out, is certain of his future job-wise and even has the transportation thing solved...I would think such a fellow would find a studio and sign at least a two year lease.



I live in 2 bedroom apartment located on the 14th floor with a (1) room facing towards the north east, with floor to ceiling glass panels, so I get plenty of natural sunlight all through the morning but I work full time in finance, so most of my photography would be with artificial studio lighting equipment and client dealings would be after 3 pm and/or the weekends. Sooo, a studio would be a bit too much for now. And I don't think I could get enough gear and equipment for $20k (including camera + lenses) that I would need to lease a studio, lol.


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## ThatAudiGuy (Apr 14, 2016)

waday said:


> ThatAudiGuy said:
> 
> 
> > I am 27, single and working as an assistant finance manager for an SME, I've always been good with my finances, I have zero debt, no credit card fees, no school loans, mortgages, also with a company car, my current wheels are an overhead I don't really need, hence why I want to get rid of it. Besides, I've got enough saved up that I could take a break for 16 months and not worry about my cash flow.
> ...



Haha, appreciated!


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## Braineack (Apr 14, 2016)

ThatAudiGuy said:


> Didereaux said:
> 
> 
> > Well, I am shocked!  No one has even hinted at what you will need to go with that top $$$ gear.... a STUDIO!.   Not just any studio a good one, with great natural lighting as well as enough space for some more advanced sets.  Yes. a fellow like yourself that has thought all this out, is certain of his future job-wise and even has the transportation thing solved...I would think such a fellow would find a studio and sign at least a two year lease.
> ...



Break your lease and move back in with your parents and spend the rent money on a studio lease.


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## ThatAudiGuy (Apr 14, 2016)

eal76 said:


> I can tell you how it worked when we started our studio, it may or may not help you:
> Before we decided to open professionally we did what I would call a "soft opening." (We didn't call it that at the time). We own our own commercial building which is our studio space (a luxury, I know), so that was luckily a non-issue. We decided on a fictitious name, registered our tax ID and name with the state and were "above board" from day one.
> We were working with our personal "prosumer" gear at the time. We consciously decided to hold off on pro gear until we were certain that we would make our money back on our investment.
> We bought some simple paper backdrop rolls (your standard black, white, grey) and a nice brown mottled canvas back drop. We bought 2 tungsten soft boxes (entry level stuff; easy to correct for the color in LR).  We already had LR, PS, and a good computer from our lives as "hobbyists."
> ...



You sir, are living the dream!. I think I might take up on your advice, spend the money gradually, buy things only if I really need to. But really though? Does $20k really buy you that much? I mean everyone here is freaking out, lol and here I was thinking that I'd be looked down upon as a mere peasant in the forums, lol.

Thank you for your advice, I really genuinely appreciate it!


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## ThatAudiGuy (Apr 14, 2016)

eal76 said:


> Forgive me if I missed it, but did you clarify what you'd mostly be shooting? What types of clients? What type of "look?" That may help with gear suggestions. The worst thing you can do is buy something you don't need and find out too late that you really didn't need it.
> I've never done the whole "home studio" thing. But, and this may just be me, I would never be comfortable going to someone's apartment for a photo shoot. It may be because I'm a woman and an overcautious one at that, but I would find that scenario off-putting at best, and creepy at worst.
> If you live in a big city, have you considered renting equipped studios on an as needed basis? I know nothing about this, but I'm sure there are people on here who do.



I would like do more product shoots, I don't think I could do models and portraits at this stage, most of my training has been in product photography, mostly Karl Taylor's stuff.

As for client dealing, I've got a couple of friends that I work with, that do freelance creative design work and we usually meet up in coffee shops with our clients.


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## Watchful (Apr 14, 2016)

For under 7000.00 you can build an awesome editing workstation.

This would be great:  System Build - PCPartPicker
Its very similar to what I use.
Add a mechanical keyboard and mouse of choice and if you are able to do some coding and write plugins, you can get free software that is open source like gimp and paint.net and do things the paid software can't do and forego photoshop. I included a video editor and photo editor in case you are not comfortable with doing a bit of coding yourself.


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## goodguy (Apr 14, 2016)

Product photography ?

Nikon D810
Nikon 24-70mm 2.8
Nikon 70-200mm 2.8 VRII
Nikon 105mm 2.8G VR Micro


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## goodguy (Apr 14, 2016)

eal76 said:


> goodguy said:
> 
> 
> > Product photography ?
> ...


Agreed, I just think the 70-200mm 2.8 is such a flexible lens that if you have 20K to blow on gear might as well get this awesome lens but it is not a must for pure produce photography.


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## Watchful (Apr 14, 2016)

goodguy said:


> eal76 said:
> 
> 
> > goodguy said:
> ...


Produce photography? Like fruits and veggies?


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## FotosbyMike (Apr 14, 2016)

ThatAudiGuy said:


> Does $20k really buy you that much? I mean everyone here is freaking out, lol and here I was thinking that I'd be looked down upon as a mere peasant in the forums, lol.


We are use to people putting they want to go all out pro with $1-$2k budget  and this is more to laugh at. But yeah 20K is a lot of money to spend on photo equipment.

And you can do a lot with 2-3 speed lights but knowledge is key on how to use them. More gear doesn't make you a better photographer except when your gear limits you. First think about what is limiting you...ex. lights buy some strobes, or can't focus close enough buy macro. Small steps and build up.

I love Karl's work and would love to go to his workshop too.

I also really like Tony Roslund and Rob Grimm work met them both and took their workshop last year at the Fstoppers workshop.


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## Braineack (Apr 14, 2016)

FotosbyMike said:


> But yeah 20K is a lot of money to spend on photo equipment.



it's all relative.

$20k is a lot to spend on  "product photography"  without any product to shoot to make income with.


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## jaomul (Apr 14, 2016)

Rather than spend right now, I suggest you spend some money on some expert lighting tutorials. Most product photography is all about the lighting, and unless I am mistaken mostly at lower iso (100 or 200). There is not a lot that that k3 wont be capable of shooting with its 24mp sensor, at low iso, a good lens, knowledge and good lights.

But by all means go your own way.


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## ThatAudiGuy (Apr 14, 2016)

FotosbyMike said:


> ThatAudiGuy said:
> 
> 
> > Does $20k really buy you that much? I mean everyone here is freaking out, lol and here I was thinking that I'd be looked down upon as a mere peasant in the forums, lol.
> ...



You're right, I remember Lee Morris did a drink photoshoot tutorial with just 3 speed lights and a strobe, turned out fantastic. 

You guys on the forums have been really helpful, in that I will definitely not be blowing away the $20k all at once. Take small steps instead.


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## ThatAudiGuy (Apr 14, 2016)

eal76 said:


> ThatAudiGuy said:
> 
> 
> > eal76 said:
> ...



Unfortunately, I don't have the kind of expert advice, as I don't live in the US. I usually get my suff locally, or from Dubai, but none of these places have the kind of expertise as some of the stores around North America.


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## Designer (Apr 14, 2016)

Watchful said:


> Add a mechanical keyboard ..


That sounds funny!

I haven't seen a mechanical keyboard for many years.  

I don't know how one would attach a mechanical keyboard to a computer.  Why not just use a cheap, readily available electronic one?


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## ronlane (Apr 14, 2016)

I'm actually shocked that no one has suggested to you to get a Nikon D5 or a Canon 1Dx mk II and the trinity of lenses, 15-30, 24-70 and 70-200 all f/2.8 versions. With product, you may want a 100mm macro as well.

That could be had for well under $20K and then you'd have plenty of money for lighting and other stuff you will need for good product photos.


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## Designer (Apr 14, 2016)

ThatAudiGuy said:


> Does $20k really buy you that much?


Yes.  You can easily set up a small studio on one corner of your room for that amount.  As long as the objects will fit on your stage or in a light box.  

I will also caution you against spending the entire wad immediately.  If you don't have a computer, don't have a camera, no lens, no stage, no lights, no modifiers, and no customers, I would start there.  Get all that stuff, including some customers, and start in.  If you're careful, you will still have about $10,000 cash to use for something else.


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## ThatAudiGuy (Apr 14, 2016)

jaomul said:


> Rather than spend right now, I suggest you spend some money on some expert lighting tutorials. Most product photography is all about the lighting, and unless I am mistaken mostly at lower iso (100 or 200). There is not a lot that that k3 wont be capable of shooting with its 24mp sensor, at low iso, a good lens, knowledge and good lights.
> 
> But by all means go your own way.



I've got quite a few hundred dollars worth of tutorials about studio lighting, ones that Karl Taylor did with Broncolor.

The K-3 is actually quite horrible in low light and the K-3 II is not much different, lol. Hence, why I wish to upgrade, I want to get the Nikon D810 but its been out for a while, I don't want to splash out all that money just to have Nikon release the 820 or 900, so I might go for a Canon 5DSR, a few lighting options and a new 15" Macbook as I have a feeling my old 4gig model won't be able to handle the larger files. Funny thing is, I thought just between the FF body plus 3 lenses would cost me $20k, lol.


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## jaomul (Apr 14, 2016)

Product photos are normally under controlled light situations though, not low light


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## ThatAudiGuy (Apr 14, 2016)

ronlane said:


> I'm actually shocked that no one has suggested to you to get a Nikon D5 or a Canon 1Dx mk II and the trinity of lenses, 15-30, 24-70 and 70-200 all f/2.8 versions. With product, you may want a 100mm macro as well.
> 
> That could be had for well under $20K and then you'd have plenty of money for lighting and other stuff you will need for good product photos.



Aren't both the D5 and 1Dx both over $5K for just the body only?, my only gripe with both those cameras is the sub 20 mpix sensor size (not quite sure about the 1Dx), a lot less detail compared to a 5DSR(?).


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## Watchful (Apr 14, 2016)

Don't you hate it when you type one thing and the phone is certain you meant something else?  great technology.


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## ThatAudiGuy (Apr 14, 2016)

Designer said:


> ThatAudiGuy said:
> 
> 
> > Does $20k really buy you that much?
> ...



Can you actually breakdown the costs? I mean how can I buy all that equipment and still be able to save $10k, because I am unable to.


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## ThatAudiGuy (Apr 14, 2016)

jaomul said:


> Product photos are normally under controlled light situations though, not low light



I know what you mean. I'm just saying, the K-3/II's are horrible in low-light overall.


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## Watchful (Apr 14, 2016)

Designer said:


> Watchful said:
> 
> 
> > Add a mechanical keyboard ..
> ...



Mechanical keyboards are just a higher quality version of the rubber blister film keyboard that uses an individual switch under every key for greater precision and speed. The plug into the USB ports on the computer and most have a usb socket on the side for receiving signals from a wireless mouse and relaying it to the computer, so there are 2 connectors that you plug into the computer itself from the keyboard.
You don't need to go out and buy a mechanical keyboard for a light-use family PC or a home theater PC, and you won't want to lug one around for your laptop or tablet. But if you're a PC power user and you're willing to shell out a few hundred dollars on a high-end CPU or graphics card, don't cheap out with a pack-in stock keyboard. You might find that moving up from your old rubber-switch keyboard to a nice mechanical model could make your computing more enjoyable overall.

Here's some reading that explains it well.
I personally use one with Cherry MX Red switches in it, I don't like the click of some of the other types. I have this keyboard: Aivia


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## Watchful (Apr 14, 2016)

eal76 said:


> I suppose I was thinking the D5 could be overkill for the stage of the game the OP is in. However, if he had come here saying he just got his trust fund payment and was swimming in cash, why not get the best!


I think a D5 XQD version would be a good choice as he mentioned using it for video as well and it will do 4k video, albeit only at 30fps, but if it's set up right  that will be more than sufficient for recording but only 3 minutes at a time unless you feed it out with the HDMI output to record externally. For hardcore video production, it's not a great choice, but for small cuts of products, it will work.


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## DarkShadow (Apr 14, 2016)

Some key words that say don't do it to me is what you said (What little skill I have) Maybe your having  mid life crisis or something and making a bad decision.Keep your car,keep the gear you have and make money off the stuff you have then use that money to upgrade. I use to have my own Company Van until I quit then they took the darn thing back, stupid company,stupid Ex-boss.I was hoping to drive the company vehicle to the ground so my car can stay like new but they noticed I had a company vehicle after I said I am quitting.


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## goodguy (Apr 14, 2016)

ThatAudiGuy said:


> Aren't both the D5 and 1Dx both over $5K for just the body only?, my only gripe with both those cameras is the sub 20 mpix sensor size (not quite sure about the 1Dx), a lot less detail compared to a 5DSR(?).


Actually D5 and 1Dx are not the right tool for product photography or any studio work.
These sensors are made for extreme high ISO and not high dynamic range or high resolution.
In studio both the D750 and especially the D810 will be the better tools.


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## Watchful (Apr 14, 2016)

A few nay sayers here. 
"Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill 

You will definitely NOT succeed if you don't try it.

The 810 is a great still camera, but not a good video option at only 1920 x 1080. If all you want is stills, it's a good choice. It's also a good choice for insurance photos, surveillance photos, forensics records, and anything that you want in high detail. (stills only that is).


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## jake337 (Apr 14, 2016)

goodguy said:


> Product photography ?
> 
> Nikon D810
> Nikon 24-70mm 2.8
> ...



I would add a couple tilt/shift lenses to that list.  Or just replace the 105 with the 85mm f2.8 pce.


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## gsgary (Apr 14, 2016)

ThatAudiGuy said:


> ronlane said:
> 
> 
> > I'm actually shocked that no one has suggested to you to get a Nikon D5 or a Canon 1Dx mk II and the trinity of lenses, 15-30, 24-70 and 70-200 all f/2.8 versions. With product, you may want a 100mm macro as well.
> ...


The D5 would be rubbish for what you want to do

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk


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## gsgary (Apr 14, 2016)

Forget Nikon and Canon and get the Leica S brilliant for studio work flash sinc speeds are much higher if you need 

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk


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## jake337 (Apr 14, 2016)

gsgary said:


> Forget Nikon and Canon and get the Leica S brilliant for studio work flash sinc speeds are much higher if you need
> 
> Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk



Since we are talking about product photography the OP may as well add this to that lieca s.

Sinar Photography » p MF-L @en


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## Watchful (Apr 14, 2016)

LOL the Leica s, an editing computer, and studio lighting. He'll only need to borrow a few thousand dollars for that set up.  The idea was to have some money left over, not create more debt.


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## sashbar (Apr 14, 2016)

ThatAudiGuy said:


> Funny thing is, I thought just between the FF body plus 3 lenses would cost me $20k, lol.



You say you work in finances?


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## sashbar (Apr 14, 2016)

gsgary said:


> Forget Nikon and Canon and get the Leica S brilliant for studio work flash sinc speeds are much higher if you need
> 
> Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk



Agree. A nice little Leica, a couple of Summicron lenses, the latest MacBook Pro and the coolest messenger bag you can find.

It is a much wiser investment, because when you start selling it to buy a car, you will realise it all holds its price better than any DSLR. Everything apart from the bag.


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## Dave442 (Apr 14, 2016)

I would pick up the camera after everything else was in place, but I'm sure a case of GAS will only be remedied with a new camera (and a couple lenses).


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## Watchful (Apr 14, 2016)

sashbar said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> > Forget Nikon and Canon and get the Leica S brilliant for studio work flash sinc speeds are much higher if you need
> ...


Macbook pro? Seriously? Squinting to see the 1280 by 800 screen resolution on a whopping 15" display? Then try to do editing and you are panning around more than editing.
Laptops are not good primary editing workstations.


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## table1349 (Apr 14, 2016)

Your still in the 20th Century I see.  My latest MBP has a native resolution of 2560 by 1600 pixels on a 15" display.


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## sashbar (Apr 14, 2016)

Watchful said:


> sashbar said:
> 
> 
> > gsgary said:
> ...



You did not get the irony apparently. It was a joke in case anyone else took it seriously.

And btw I am editing on MBP,  I have no choice, sadly, and somehow manage. Then again, I have pathetic 16Mp cameras


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## sashbar (Apr 14, 2016)

gryphonslair99 said:


> Your still in the 20th Century I see.  My latest MBP has a native resolution of 2560 by 1600 pixels on a 15" display.



2560 x 1600 is MBP 13"   
My MBP 15" is 2880 x1800, just checked.


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## Watchful (Apr 14, 2016)

sashbar said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> > Your still in the 20th Century I see.  My latest MBP has a native resolution of 2560 by 1600 pixels on a 15" display.
> ...


You are correct, I looked at the 13" by mistake. I'd still rather use a 40" 4k display.


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## table1349 (Apr 14, 2016)

sashbar said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> > Your still in the 20th Century I see.  My latest MBP has a native resolution of 2560 by 1600 pixels on a 15" display.
> ...


By jove your right.   I was typing on mine and pulled the resolution up on the wife's.  Forgot she uses a larger display cause she is blind.  Vanity of contacts vs better vision with glasses for her.  Me, I'll keep my 20/15 vision with glasses.


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## chuasam (Apr 14, 2016)

What is your reserve like financially? How many months can you live without income? Do you have any commercial photography background? 
It isn't as easy as buying the gear and doing it.


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## smoke665 (Apr 14, 2016)

Braineack said:


> ThatAudiGuy said:
> 
> 
> > Over the past 6 months or so, I've also been contemplating on getting into commercial photography, but the equipment and gear costs were holding me back. Now that I have this opportunity, I've been seriously putting some thought into getting some pro-level gear with around $20k at my disposal.
> ...



LOL Good Point! As was the one on training.

 I'm not a professional by any stretch of the imagination, it's a hobby (Something my wife reminds me of when she catches me ordering more equipment). Many, many years ago, I found I was being invited to social events with the additional comment "by the way can you take a few photos". Sadly it eventually turned me off so much, that I gave up photography completely for over 30 years. Only since retirement have I gained interest in it again, AS A HOBBY. The point of my rambling is before you go out and drop a chunk of change, you really need to think about where you're going with it. If it's a hobby and you can afford it, buy what ever floats your boat, but if you're serious about going pro, you need to consider what some others have suggested and pursue training first. I can tell you first hand there's a wold of difference in doing something for the fun of it, and doing it as a job.


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## ThatAudiGuy (Apr 15, 2016)

Watchful said:


> eal76 said:
> 
> 
> > I suppose I was thinking the D5 could be overkill for the stage of the game the OP is in. However, if he had come here saying he just got his trust fund payment and was swimming in cash, why not get the best!
> ...




So far, nobody's mentioned anything about the Sony A7RII, are they not very good cameras?.


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## ThatAudiGuy (Apr 15, 2016)

chuasam said:


> What is your reserve like financially? How many months can you live without income? Do you have any commercial photography background?
> It isn't as easy as buying the gear and doing it.



Approximately 16 months, I am sure that I could stretch it even further if I were being conservative with my spending.

Moreover, yes, I have done a few product shoots for local businesses in the last couple of years, they have been challenging, as I was having to use nothing but a couple of speed lights for lighting, but it seemed to work, with a little bit of effort, the photos turned out pretty decent, which got me thinking that I might be able to improve on it with better lighting equipment and perhaps a more powerful camera, you have to remember the Pentax K-3 is a 3 year old APS-C camera and the K-3II isn't all that much better.

A lot of my friends work freelance as creative design experts, that is how I got all of product shoots, I think that with a good enough setup I could expand on my past experience and really make something of myself here.


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## ThatAudiGuy (Apr 15, 2016)

DarkShadow said:


> Some key words that say don't do it to me is what you said (What little skill I have) Maybe your having  mid life crisis or something and making a bad decision.Keep your car,keep the gear you have and make money off the stuff you have then use that money to upgrade. I use to have my own Company Van until I quit then they took the darn thing back, stupid company,stupid Ex-boss.I was hoping to drive the company vehicle to the ground so my car can stay like new but they noticed I had a company vehicle after I said I am quitting.



I was being humble  And besides, it seems that you have not read most my comments in this thread, I've got a back up vehicle, my parents don't use their old Lexus LS460 anymore, so I basically can have the damn thing as I please. 

Moreover, who ever said anything about quitting? All I'm saying is that I want to slowly transition from being in finance to becoming a commercial photographer, it might take me years for all I know. 

I might be young, but I am not dumb.


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## ThatAudiGuy (Apr 15, 2016)

smoke665 said:


> Braineack said:
> 
> 
> > ThatAudiGuy said:
> ...



Unfortunately sir, you along with several others did not bother reading through my post, I had clearly mentioned that it was the cost of the equipment that was holding me back, the COST of the equipment that I needed to get and not the EQUIPMENT that I currently own.


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## ThatAudiGuy (Apr 15, 2016)

Braineack said:


> ThatAudiGuy said:
> 
> 
> > Over the past 6 months or so, I've also been contemplating on getting into commercial photography, but the equipment and gear costs were holding me back. Now that I have this opportunity, I've been seriously putting some thought into getting some pro-level gear with around $20k at my disposal.
> ...



The COST of equipment and gear is what kept me from doing it.

And I've mentioned at least 16 times so far in this thread that I have a full-time job, so I CAN afford to buy a CAR. Jesus...


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## Watchful (Apr 15, 2016)

I'll take a minute to apologize for the forum members that won't apologize for themselves. We're sorry.
There. 
Not all members want to hold people back from following their dreams.
Good luck.


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## ThatAudiGuy (Apr 15, 2016)

sashbar said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> > Forget Nikon and Canon and get the Leica S brilliant for studio work flash sinc speeds are much higher if you need
> ...



And the oscar for best supporting actor in a comedy goes to... You guessed it, congratulations.


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## gsgary (Apr 15, 2016)

ThatAudiGuy said:


> sashbar said:
> 
> 
> > gsgary said:
> ...


I'm being serious 

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk


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## gsgary (Apr 15, 2016)

But on the other hand if you don't know what you need you are wasting your money

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk


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## ThatAudiGuy (Apr 15, 2016)

Watchful said:


> I'll take a minute to apologize for the forum members that won't apologize for themselves. We're sorry.
> There.
> Not all members want to hold people back from following their dreams.
> Good luck.



Lol, I am not looking for an apology, I'm just amazed by some of the responses in this thread. I mean, I don't want to sound like an asshole, but it's my money, I could set it ablaze if I want to.

All I asked for was how would other photographers spend $20k if they wanted to take their photography to the next level, and go commercial, but I guess that its a bit too much for some folks over here to swollow, lol.


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## ThatAudiGuy (Apr 15, 2016)

gsgary said:


> But on the other hand if you don't know what you need you are wasting your money
> 
> Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk



I literally had the idea like last night, all I asked for was your gear of choice. What I did not ask for was life advice.


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## cherylynne1 (Apr 15, 2016)

ThatAudiGuy said:


> Watchful said:
> 
> 
> > eal76 said:
> ...




I think most of the photographers here use Nikon, and next would be Canon. Not a ton of Sony shooters. 

The A7RII has the highest scoring sensor of all time, and can produce some incredible images when paired with the right lenses. For your purposes, the Zeiss 55 would be good for everyday shooting and the 90 Macro would be good for product photography. Then I think I'd wait for the reviews to come in on the new 24-70 2.8 and 70-200 2.8...it looks like they might both be incredible lenses. 

Some photographers dislike Sony because of ergonomics or the menus. Some dislike that they have a smaller lens selection, since they haven't been around as long. But they are actively adding lenses--they've announced five full frame lenses in the last three months. It is going to take longer to get to the point that Nikon and Canon are at, of course. The A7RII isn't as good at autofocus for professional uses, such as sports or photojournalism. For studio work, however, you'd likely be using manual focus most of the time, and for everyday shooting the autofocus is more than adequate. The flash system also isn't as well developed as the other companies, which might matter to you. They did announce earlier this month that they've developed a set of radio triggers, so that might help their reputation in that area if they work well. 

Basically, Sony is a newer system, so people hesitate to recommend them until they develop a stronger reputation. But they're definitely starting to upset the status quo. Three years ago, the question was always Canon vs. Nikon, and now the question is almost always Canon vs. Nikon vs. Sony. If you have played around with the Sony and you like the feel of it, definitely consider it. It can match the image quality of the other cameras you're considering for your purposes, no problem.


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## chuasam (Apr 15, 2016)

You can save money by renting the lights and the studio as you need them and add it as a line item. 
As for gear for what you're doing, a D810 would be an ideal body. As for lenses get the 105mm. A good tripod for studio should be about $500. Laptop like MacBook Pro with the faster SSD and max ram. Also have money for back up drives. Rent your Adobe software. Buy the rest as you need.


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## Overread (Apr 15, 2016)

A few thoughts:

1) Sometimes too much money is as much trouble as too little - at least when you're not quite sure yourself what you do and don't need and when the end resulting product (the photo) has many many different ways to get there. 

2) As a result of point 1 I would encourage you to do the following:
a) Stick the money in savings for a moment;

b) Get some of your current photography up on the forums; get some feedback on it and also get some inspirational concepts that you'd like to achieve; ask about how to get there; find out how others would get there. This isn't a 1 thread thing; this will likely be several threads just to keep the discussion focused and flowing well. 

c) Buy (as you have) more educational material - educate yourself. 

This approach is all about informing yourself and building up your skill set as well as a general understanding of what your weaknesses are in skills and equipment. Greater familiarity is all about giving you more and more thoughts about what your limits are; what you real world needs are. This all adds together to help give you a framework around which you can base your purchase choices and also about which you can ask for advice on what to purchase in the first place

Otherwise; as has happened; the higher budget means that you get so many different approaches that its hard to pick just one out of the pool. All the different small and big differences are harder to see for yourself; and you might well just end up going with whoever's voice is the loudest rather than that might might be best for you.


3) Consider rental; this might be of some very high value gear; the idea here is to spend a proper week or so using the gear to get a real world understanding of what you need from the gear and what its doing for you. Of course practice and get some feedback first; your basic methodoligy can be improved with even basic gear - especially in something like product photography where you can do a lot with some verybasic gear (heck a few bits of paper, a cardboard box and a few stand lights can produce a very good result and the basics of light control and diffusion won't change no matter if you're using stand lamps or top end studio flashes. 



In general the more informed and skilled you can make yourself the easier you can make a high value purchase that works for you and it also means when you get the gear you can unlock its potential. 


I did rather similar myself; I used a cheaper 70-300mm lens for a few months before spending a fairly large amount of money on gear for myself. Those few months taught me basics of camera control; they taught me the basics of how to use gear but most importantly they taught me what I wanted from my gear at that point in time. It showed me that I really loved macro which was something I never thought I would; and spending time talking to other macro photographers helped me far more than 1 "which macro lens to get" thread ever could. 

I do believe that when learning or working in any hobby there is no crime in using high end gear; that its better to have equipment that exceeds your skill level so that you can grow into it and unlock your full potential. However I also think that to make the right choices in what gear to grow into you've got to have some practical hands on experience of doing the thing in the first place.


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## petrochemist (Apr 15, 2016)

A skilled photographer would be capable of  doing commercial work with the kit you already have (or much lesser systems!).

Yes they'd probably prefer better lenses (yours are not Pentax's best by a long way). For some types of commercial a different body might be an advantage, Pentax bodies tend to be a little slow on autofocus and their range of extreme telephoto lenses don't match up to the diversity of Canon or Nikon. (Your existing lenses suggest wildlife/sports wouldn't be your sort of photography though) Some work benefits from a larger sensor, but it's not nearly as essential as some would have you believe. Video specs are irrelevant for many photographers & 16MP is more than  enough for printing to at least A3. - 6MP is actually enough for A4 (10x8)...

Your list of existing kit doesn't mention any lighting, if you are intending to do studio work lighting is a major part that you may not have much experience with. I certainly haven't mastered it, despite attending professional product shoots as a kid & having a very wide ranging photographic interests (your lens selection would be very limiting to me, though your K3 might be a step up on my bodies). For lighting you probably want a couple of studio flashes, with softboxes, snoots, grids... If your not already highly familiar with these your lighting skills (like mine) won't be up to doing commercial product work.

I'd strongly suggest that you start by getting the lighting kit, and develop skills in using that. By the time you've honed your skills suitably, the current line up of cameras & PCs will probably be several generations out of date (Both are rapidly advancing after all).

With a budget of $20k even after getting lighting you could get a 645D with a decent lens, which would give you more than the 'full frame' benefits you were talking about. Studio work is the area where medium format can come into it's own, but developing the lighting skills is far more important to good results..


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## Braineack (Apr 15, 2016)

ThatAudiGuy said:


> Unfortunately sir, you along with several others did not bother reading through my post, I had clearly mentioned that it was the cost of the equipment that was holding me back, the COST of the equipment that I needed to get and not the EQUIPMENT that I currently own.



you clearly mentioned it was the _equipment itself_ as well as the cost.



> ...I've also been contemplating on getting into commercial photography, but the equipment and gear costs were holding me back...





> All I asked for was how would other photographers spend $20k if they wanted to take their photography to the next level, and go commercial, but I guess that its a bit too much for some folks over here to swollow, lol.



There's just no reason you need to spend a random $20K figure, because that's what you can sell you [gifted?] car for, to do what you want to do. 

Had you had presented it more like: I want to get into "product photography" what is some equipment you think I should get to peruse this (camera, lenses, lighting, hardware, etc.)?  I think you would have gotten different responses.

A lot of us have life experience as well, so hearing someone wants to sell a car to fund a bunch of camera stuff to take pictures of "products" seems a little off-putting and not thoroughly thought through.  My advice is buy what we you for what you're shooting.  If you need a new modifier, or stand, or camera to do the job, then buy it -- however you may need to fund it -- but the idea to just randomly buy a bunch of studio equipment, because you have $XYZ, just seems like the wrong approach to me.

Yeah we probably went off-point with this, but you brought it up.  And this is coming from someone who literally sold his car [1 of 3] to fund a bunch of camera equipment.


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## thereyougo! (Apr 15, 2016)

I would agree with overhead's comment about renting equipment to try them out.  If you're serious about product photography then gsgary's suggestion isn't far off track.  You are already familiar with Pentax, I would consider the 645Z which is considerably cheaper than the Leica.  The modern lenses for the system - 28 - 45 DFA 35 DFA55 and DFA 90 macro would serve you very well.  

How much do you think you will need video on a professional level?  If it's a very small part, you are better off looking for something for stills and getting the best you can afford and renting a better video system.  DSLR video has come a long way, but I'm not sure it's yet where it needs to be.  

Rent several systems over several weekends ( 1 system a weekend) and compare the results.  Remember the easiest way to spend money without noticing is to fritter it away.  You keep better account of the big things than the little things.  That's the reason for the saying: "Look after the pennies and the pounds look after themselves".

Whatever you do, Good Luck!


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## tirediron (Apr 15, 2016)

ThatAudiGuy said:


> ...I might be young, but I am not dumb.


 No, and I don't believe anyone suggested  you were, but, implicit in your statement of age is a lack of experience.  That's not a bad thing, nor a good thing, simply a fact.  Some of us have a little more experience, at least in the field of photography, not mention life in general (some of have a lot more experience than we'd like!  ), and are perhaps making recommendations, based on that experience to hopefully prevent you from making mistakes that they have made and/or seen others make.

No one here wants to 'rain on your parade', but it might not hurt to consider, for a moment, the fact that your intended approach might not be the only one, nor the best one, and others, might, just might have value to add, even though it doesn't strictly relate to the question(s) you originally posed.


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## spiralout462 (Apr 15, 2016)

I can't believe it took 8 pages to get to medium format!  In a studio setting at the highest level, that is what I would want, no doubt.


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## table1349 (Apr 15, 2016)

That's because product photography today is far different than it was 40 years ago or even 10 years ago.  You don't need a Pentax 6x7 or a Zone VI 8x10 these days for most product photography.   When was the last time you subscribed to a magazine the size that Look or Life were printed.   When was the last time you received a Sears, JCPenny or Montgomery Ward catalogue in the mail?  Victoria Seceret recently announced that they were even cutting back on 

The majority of product photography today as for the digital world.   Victoria Seceret announced a few days ago that even they were drasticly cutting back on their print media.  Even those smaller companies such as Eddie Bower,  Landsend etc., need fast turnaround to get their mailers out.   I doubt that the OP has captured a part of the market that larger format cameras would be good for but Ford, GM, Chrysler all have their longtime trusted photographers and Playboy is just for reading these days. 

I still break out my 6x7 for the fun of it and to do some very special shoots.  Wished I had the Zone VI to use, but it was sold long ago.


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## gsgary (Apr 15, 2016)

ThatAudiGuy said:


> chuasam said:
> 
> 
> > What is your reserve like financially? How many months can you live without income? Do you have any commercial photography background?
> ...


Not if you think a 3 year old camera is not capable of doing a shoot, I could get my old Canon 1Dmk1 (4mp) out and set up my studio lights and I would still make a good shot

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk


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## gsgary (Apr 15, 2016)

ThatAudiGuy said:


> Watchful said:
> 
> 
> > I'll take a minute to apologize for the forum members that won't apologize for themselves. We're sorry.
> ...


That's because most of us could do it with cheap gear

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk


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## Dave442 (Apr 15, 2016)

This is what I would start with:
Meet the photographer behind those 'simple' Apple product images

As I noted earlier, use your current camera as you can make money with that or just learn exactly where you feel that a different camera can make a difference.  

Having a place where you can always have things set up is a major factor. I can turn around from my computer and take a few product shots and reducing set-up time is a major cost saver. If you are setting up a business then do all those start-up costs now to put them in your taxes. Buy insurance.


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## KmH (Apr 15, 2016)

Whoa!
Check out the killer, built like a tank camera stand he uses in that video.


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## Braineack (Apr 15, 2016)

he completely redrew it, should have just used the cg rendering in the first place, would have saved tons of time/effort.


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## ClickAddict (Apr 15, 2016)

sashbar said:


> ThatAudiGuy said:
> 
> 
> > Funny thing is, I thought just between the FF body plus 3 lenses would cost me $20k, lol.
> ...



Just a quick thought about this.....  The OP mentions that he can't buy local or would have to order from Dubai.... not sure of where he is located....

Were you specifying $20k US dollars?  I know I can get a lot less for $20K Canadian at the moment.  Also, even after factoring exchange rates, some items cost more in some countries than others....


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## Designer (Apr 15, 2016)

KmH said:


> Whoa!
> Check out the killer, built like a tank camera stand he uses in that video.


THAT's his camera stand?  Criminey!  You could mount a basketball goal on that thing.


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## Designer (Apr 15, 2016)

ThatAudiGuy said:


> Funny thing is, I thought just between the FF body plus 3 lenses would cost me $20k, lol.


In medium format, that would just get you a camera and one lens.  No lights, no stands, no stage, no computer, and no software. 

Most of us have assumed miniature format (i.e.: 35mm size cameras and lenses)

Honestly; for product photography you really don't need the world's best camera. You do need to know how to use whatever you end up with, along with lights, stands, stage and/or tent, light modifiers, scrims, etc.  

Don't try to blow the whole wad on just a camera, or you won't be able to learn the craft.


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## Watchful (Apr 15, 2016)

Yeah, you are creating files for the internet at 72 dpi, it's not going to need to be a great image, just good, well lit and sharp.
For print, 150 line screen is sufficient and is what Toyota (Lexus) uses on their direct mail variable data advertising campaigns costing a million dollars just for the printing.
The most critical thing on those campaigns is an exact color match and that is achieved by a properly calibrated press and an operator making constant comparison checks as it runs.


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## vintagesnaps (Apr 16, 2016)

Sounds like your experience is too limited to jump into spending $20 thou on equipment. (That could probably apply to things besides photography too.) You've done some product shots for local businesses, and follow a couple of guys online - that just isn't enough.

Gary was right though, you should have enough experience to have some idea what you need. You seem to be thinking it's all about the equipment, but a good photographer can do a lot without necessarily having all the most expensive equipment. I'd suggest a lot more learning and practicing if you really want to do this. Build up your skills and add to your equipment as you go.

I don't know where you live if these resources would be of help, but American Society of Media Photographers or PPA have resources available. Or you could try looking at the Photo District News PDN Online | Photo Magazine | Pro Photography News & Gear.


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## Wasp1 (Apr 18, 2016)

I read the 1st post and you have said that you have a limited knowledge of photography, well that is not word for word. But you have come off as you have got not much in the know how in this field. Though you then went on to say that you want to spend some of the car money on buying more equipment. 
There is nothing wrong with throwing yourself into the deep end without knowing too much. But it to me sounds like throwing good money down the drain.
Have you thought of some on line course to learn. As all I can see is a failure on your skill levels. 
But then other people are much braver than I am and willing to risk that. If you are one of them I wish you all the luck you can get as I feel you will need it.


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## calamityjane (Apr 19, 2016)

Spend time and money on training. Then work out if it's the right area for you and which equipment you might need. Putting the cart before the horse is a surefire recipe for misdirecting your money, at best, and wasting it, at worst.


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## chrisv2 (Apr 19, 2016)

I'm surprised nobody mentioned this, but for $22K you can have a professional photographer (who already has all the cool gear) on retainer for...what...10 years at least?


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## gckless (Apr 22, 2016)

chrisv2 said:


> I'm surprised nobody mentioned this, but for $22K you can have a professional photographer (who already has all the cool gear) on retainer for...what...10 years at least?



If you were a race car driver, would you hire someone to drive for you, or build a car and race yourself?


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## table1349 (Apr 22, 2016)

gckless said:


> chrisv2 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm surprised nobody mentioned this, but for $22K you can have a professional photographer (who already has all the cool gear) on retainer for...what...10 years at least?
> ...


What?   Wait!!!   You mean if I go into business for Myself l'm supposed to actually work in my business?  Wow being an  entrepreneur is tougher than it sounds.


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## robbins.photo (Apr 22, 2016)

gryphonslair99 said:


> What?   Wait!!!   You mean if I go into business for Myself l'm supposed to actually work in my business?  Wow being an  entrepreneur is tougher than it sounds.



Can't that be outsourced?


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