# wireless flash problem



## cytorg (Mar 6, 2017)

Hello, I have been trying to do a multi flash system using a Nikon D7200 and Sb 910's and a Sb 700 in manual mode.  I have followed the instructions on making the camera the commander and setting built-in set to "- -" Group A and Group B to M @ 1/1 with it set to channel 1.  I have set the flashes appropriately but my problem is my flashes are firing at the lowest setting even though they are 1/1.  Flashes are going through a small soft-box or umbrella.  My meter keeps reading under though my camera is set to 1/60th, ISO 200.  Meter is set the same.  If I hit the flash test button I pull f8 on umbrella and f5.6 with the soft-box.    I have spent days double checking manuals and settings and it is a no go.  This is with all flashes so it is not the flash, and as I stated the camera is set according to instructions.  They are firing but just way to low like 1/128th.   Flash hooked to the hot shoe works fine, I can adjust the power with no problem.  I have also tried this with my D7100 with the same results.
What could I possibly be doing wrong? I'm totally stumped.
Thanks!


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## Derrel (Mar 6, 2017)

What CAMERA mode are you shooting in? What exposure values are you trying?Are you in manual, at a regular flash setting,like say 1/200 second at f/8? What ISO level are you set to? DO you have AUTO ISO turned to off?

The meter through the camera will not reflect the flash settings, so if you actually DO try to use it, and set the "right"exposure for continuous light, the flashes might very well fire at miniscule power.

For instance, if you have ISO 800, f/2.8 at 1/8 second dialled in, and then try to fire two TTL flashes, you'd get a very weak flash firing; if you were at ISO 100 at f/11 at 1/200 second, the flashes would fire mostly full power in TTL flash mode,


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## cytorg (Mar 6, 2017)

Derrel said:


> What CAMERA mode are you shooting in? What exposure values are you trying?Are you in manual, at a regular flash setting,like say 1/200 second at f/8? What ISO level are you set to? DO you have AUTO ISO turned to off?
> 
> The meter through the camera will not reflect the flash settings, so if you actually DO try to use it, and set the "right"exposure for continuous light, the flashes might very well fire at miniscule power.
> 
> For instance, if you have ISO 800, f/2.8 at 1/8 second dialled in, and then try to fire two TTL flashes, you'd get a very weak flash firing; if you were at ISO 100 at f/11 at 1/200 second, the flashes would fire mostly full power in TTL flash mode,




ISO 200, 1/60th Manual mode. I'm studio lighting products and I stay manual for studio. I never use auto ISO.  I'm using a Sekonic 478Dr.  to meter. Everything is manual so I have total control.  Flashes are manual.  That is why I'm stumped.  I've tried just one flash, same result and a totally under-exposed shot, nearly black.  And again, tried different flashes and different bodies.   I've poured over my books, manuals, videos and spent about 10 hours messing with it.  I'm sure it is something stupid somewhere that I'm doing.  If I set at TTL or attach flash via cord, everything's fine.


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## Derrel (Mar 6, 2017)

Hmmm, just one flash and nearly black??? Sounds very odd, almost like a failkure to synchronize. This is inded an odd situation, and at manual mode, ISO 200 and 1/60 second, one woukld expect that one manual flash ought to produce a defent amount of light.

Most perplexing that in manuals and 10 hrs the issue has not been solved. Hmmmmm....what to try? 

MY GUESS, and it is only a guess" the small softbox might be blocking line-of-sight communications??????? Haver you tried swivel-reversing the flashes, so the head and body are goiung in opposite directions?Worth a try, since if the cord works, maybe it's not a protocol issue (meaning you have them configured right, on the LCDS/settings/grouops) but the softbox could be literally blocking something?

I dunno...


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## cytorg (Mar 7, 2017)

Yes, I wondered that and went to the umbrella to my right then to my left  and same result.  The sensor on the flash would be umbrella right since I'm bouncing.  Yes, very perplexing.


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## FotosbyMike (Mar 7, 2017)

So being that this type of setup is line of sight the commander flash must be facing the red widows on all flashes for them the communicate. I would defiantly spin the flash head 180 so the red windows is facing the camera.


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## astroNikon (Mar 7, 2017)

How far away are the flashes?  Are they in line of sight ?

Start testing with your camera next to the flashes.   As mentioned above, make sure you know where the Flash receiver is on each of your flashes.  Try the camera/flash right next to the remote flash.  And see what happens.

I haven't used Commander mode in ages (used SU800 and now Yongnuo RF triggers).  But I'm going to run a quick test.


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## astroNikon (Mar 7, 2017)

tested, D750 and SB-700 (same as yours)
On the Commander - check the CHANNEL





..
you want the SB-700 flash in "Remote" on the on/off switch.  Then make sure the CHANNEL is the same as your Commander setup.  And give that a try.
Then your D7200 Command should control the output etc of the flash based upon the Group of the Flash and the setting on the Commander screen.



..


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## cytorg (Mar 7, 2017)

astroNikon said:


> tested, D750 and SB-700 (same as yours)
> On the Commander - check the CHANNEL
> View attachment 136230
> 
> ...


Yes, my channels are set  both to one.  Just for the sake of trying I went through the channels but made no difference.  I'm testing in a small room and flipped the flashs left to right and vice versa.  The difference on the above camera is I'm going manual and I don't want my on camera flash working so it is set to (- -) and channels are "M" 1/1.  They definitely are flashing, first I thought of, just at a really low power.  I did try the built in at M and I've tried TTL but I want to control power as I really only need 1/2 or 1/4 power for product.  I'm doing 1/1 because easier to test.   Thanks for all the replies.


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## astroNikon (Mar 7, 2017)

[QUOTE="cytorg, post: 3733325, member: 219635".... and I don't want my on camera flash working so it is set to (- -)....[/QUOTE]

Your *ON CAMERA FLASH* is what *activates* the remote flashes.

Otherwise you'll have to go to InfraRed such as the SU-800 or to Radio Triggers (many options).


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## table1349 (Mar 7, 2017)

Not the answer you want to here, but this kind of thing is exactly why I use something like these.  Works every time all the time.


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## cytorg (Mar 7, 2017)

astroNikon said:


> [QUOTE="cytorg, post: 3733325, member: 219635".... and I don't want my on camera flash working so it is set to (- -)....



Your *ON CAMERA FLASH* is what *activates* the remote flashes.

Otherwise you'll have to go to InfraRed such as the SU-800 or to Radio Triggers (many options).[/QUOTE]

Actually the pre-flash is what activates the others.  If you have something with reflective surfaces you don't want the on camera flash to work. So setting to ( - - ) activates pre-flash to fire strobes but not the main on camera strobe.  But for the sake of trying I did try leaving main flash on and same outcome.


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## cytorg (Mar 7, 2017)

gryphonslair99 said:


> Not the answer you want to here, but this kind of thing is exactly why I use something like these.  Works every time all the time.



Yeah, I'm thinking you are right.  I'm selling music gear to fund some strobes and I'll have to buy some anyway.  It just drives me nuts because it should work.


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## FotosbyMike (Mar 7, 2017)

It looks like I was wrong about the IR sensor location on the Nikon SB700, (Canon guy)

It is located on the side, looks like a little black dot. Make sure this is facing your camera. 

Is your popup flash up, next if so does it fire at all?


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## WayneF (Mar 12, 2017)

cytorg said:


> Hello, I have been trying to do a multi flash system using a Nikon D7200 and Sb 910's and a Sb 700 in manual mode.  I have followed the instructions on making the camera the commander and setting built-in set to "- -" Group A and Group B to M @ 1/1 with it set to channel 1.  I have set the flashes appropriately but my problem is my flashes are firing at the lowest setting even though they are 1/1.  Flashes are going through a small soft-box or umbrella.  My meter keeps reading under though my camera is set to 1/60th, ISO 200.  Meter is set the same.  If I hit the flash test button I pull f8 on umbrella and f5.6 with the soft-box.    I have spent days double checking manuals and settings and it is a no go.  This is with all flashes so it is not the flash, and as I stated the camera is set according to instructions.  They are firing but just way to low like 1/128th.   Flash hooked to the hot shoe works fine, I can adjust the power with no problem.  I have also tried this with my D7100 with the same results.
> What could I possibly be doing wrong? I'm totally stumped.
> Thanks!




I suspect your flashes must be firing at M 1/1 exactly as you set, however you must be judging it by trying to meter them.   What your meter sees is the low level command flash to transfer the power setting from the commander menu to the remote flash.  This occurs twice, for A and again for B, both immediately before the final flash. The meter will simply meter the first of those command flashes (and they are very low level).

The commander system is NOT at all the same as Manual flash.  You may be setting a level manually, but it is always very much the Nikon Commander system, and is NOT real manual flash.  The Nikon commander system is simply generally incompatible with all actual manual flash gear, including flash meters.

First, to realize that you are getting full 1/1 power, try actually taking the picture, and look at the actual picture results.  Try it at 1/1, and also try it set to low power, and you should realize the difference then.  I strongly suspect they are firing at 1/1 as set.

See Using the Nikon CLS Remote Wireless Flash System - Part 2
There is a section there (Hand held flash meters) about the great difficulties of metering the Commander system with a hand held meter.  The only reasonable try is to filter the commander to be only infrared, and the meter already filters out infrared. Also try to block the commander signal from the meter by blocking it with your body.

It says there: Sekonic meters (has IR filter to Not be sensitive to infrared) can be used with Commander *Manual* power levels, in some cases -- *IF* using a SU-800 commander, or *IF* the Nikon SG-3IR IR Panel is used in front of the camera commander, *AND ALSO IF* meter is not too close to the commander. Meter should be at least 5 or 6 feet distant from shielded infrared commander to not see any effect (may see EU error if closer).

I'm not suggesting that this is reasonable to try.  It is not impossible, but very difficult. The filters are not perfect.

Instead, if you want a perfect easy setup, then...

If you want to use Manual mode with the flash meter, then simply use real Manual mode instead of Commander.  Real genuine Manual mode.   Use SU-4 slave mode  at the remotes, instead of Remote mode.  SU-4 mode is a simple optical slave trigger, but an especially good and very sensitive one (greatly more likely to always work fine in difficult locations).  Then set your manual power level at each flash (in SU-4 mode).  You can easily trigger the flashes to meter each of them with a PC cord from meter to flash being metered (all other flashes turned off then). That is how the meter is designed to work (cord mode). What you ideally need for the meter is a 15 foot PC sync cord, male to female, but these are becoming a little hard to find.   The SB-700 has SU-4 mode, but no PC connector. You could add a foot mounted PC connector, but instead, you can trigger another flash with the meter, which will trigger the SB-700 SU-4, which you can then meter.

There will be no command flashes to interfere as before.  You can meter the flashes from the subjects position this way, which is of course required. You can individually control more than two flashes this way too. No risk of forcing pictures of the subject blinking at the commander signals.

In use (to take the picture),  SU-4 mode is triggered by any other flash, which can be the camera internal flash at lowest Manual level.  Meaning Manual mode, NOT Commander mode.  Do not use the Commander menu in any way.  Lowest level should not interfere with your picture lighting (assuming your picture exposure is up near f/5.6). Shutter speed near maximum sync speed to keep out ambient.  A test picture with all flashes turned off, and only the internal flash at lowest level, should be pretty black.

You will like this very much more, it will work like a dream, and you already have all of this gear that works great that way.


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