# Questions for the experienced photographers



## lee380 (Jan 5, 2009)

I have a goal that I would like to start a small business doing photography. However, I am a beginner at all the pertinent things that need to be learned. Yes, I can use a point and shoot, but I want to have a heck of a lot more talent than that, and rightly so if I want to do it professionally.

My questions for you are:

How did you learn the skills that you have acquired?  Did you take courses, offline or online, or did you do something else?  

What was it that made it all click in?  Honestly, right now, I am confused.  LOL

How long did it take you to acquire the skills and before you got into your profession?

Anything else you can add would be great.

Books you can recommend that may help a confused person like me, etc.?


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## tirediron (Jan 5, 2009)

Okay, first of all, don't confuse "professional", "experienced" and "skilled".  While they should, very often those three terms do not go together.  All "professional" means is that a person gets paid for the job they do.  How much paid work they have to do to call themselves a professional is purely subjective.    Talent is not something that can be learned.  Skills and theory can be learned, talent is something that you either have or don't have, 'though you may not be aware you have it.  

I gained my knowledge over the course of some twenty-five years through almost all of the methods you suggested with the exception of on-line.  When I picked up my first Miranda back in 198...*cough*  there weren't no "on-line"!  As for the question of time, while I'm not a professional by my definition (I do make a little money at it, but it ain't what pays the bills), I'm still learning.  

What I'd suggest here is head down to your local library and get some books on basic photographic theory; even if they're old, it doesn't matter.  The rule of thirds hasn't changed and an 'f' stop is still an 'f' stop.  The technical side of operating your camera you can learn from the manual.  I'd also suggest spending time here, and looking at the pictures people post and reading the critiques.  You may not agree with some, but they will all give you insight into how other photographers think.  Lastly, look toward a local camera club.  You will almost always find someone who is willing to work with you, and coach you through the basics.

Oh and the 'click' thing?  I'm still waiting for that to happen!


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## Snyder (Jan 5, 2009)

Sounds like you need to go to college to learn the trade. Unfortunately for this career field you dont need a degree to be a photographer you could work under a professional for years to learn the trade but dont expect to make much money. Now its also equally important to have knowledge in business management. So many good photographers go out of business because they dont know how to budget and price their work to stay in business. 
For me,
1)Took college classes in a classroom type setting and on the job training
2)Practice, practice, practice. Watch and ask questions from your mentors and study other people work.
3)Not long


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## Kegger (Jan 5, 2009)

I agree with TiredIron, read til your eyeballs blister, then read some more. 

I learned a lot from a local renowned photographer, who has been doing this for decades. And she is still learning. 

And the only click I have heard is the shutter right before "Damn, not again..."


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## lee380 (Jan 5, 2009)

Kegger said:


> I agree with TiredIron, read til your eyeballs blister, then read some more.
> 
> I learned a lot from a local renowned photographer, who has been doing this for decades. And she is still learning.
> 
> *And the only click I have heard is the shutter right before "Damn, not again..*."


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## JIP (Jan 5, 2009)

I don't know saying "I know how to use a P+S so I want to start a business" smells a little trolly (is that a word?) to me.  I mean really are you serious? I think there is a whole lot of stuff between "my first P+S" and "Opening a studio" and the first step might be to learn a DSLR.  My journey to being a pro started with an interest in photography at like 10 years old when my dad gave me his Canon TL.  I shot for mysef for many years before I even considered a job in photography.  
                    I say why don't you shoot some pictures for a while, and yes take some classes.  After that you might try working for someone mabye even for free.  Actually I have heard recently of people actually paying for internships now but I don't think that was in photography.  
                        I imagine this like other threads like it will change when details flesh out but right now this post kind of smells to me.


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## lee380 (Jan 5, 2009)

I'm one of these types of people who want to learn it right now but don't have a lot of time.  I help my hubby run two business from home and have 3 children 4 months, 5 years and 7 years.  So quite busy.

But I do so want to do this.  Creative...yes, I am.  Do I have a talent for this...maybe and maybe not.  

I'm unfortunately at a standstill.  Received a beautiful Sony a350 for Christmas.  But where to start.  Do I read about photography, about the camera and take pictures later or do I go and experiment with the camera?  Sounds stupid but I take things in step and like to be organized and knowledgeable before going out and practicing.  But it's probably the practicing that is going to do it.

I am so at a standstill that what I've been doing for a good week is look at all the lovely photos people have taken on this forum, the critics on them, read a tiny bit...but having a hard time figuring out what to do to learn it all.  LOL  

Would you say an online course would be worthwhile?


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## lee380 (Jan 5, 2009)

JIP said:


> *I don't know saying "I know how to use a P+S so I want to start a business" smells a little trolly (is that a word?) to me.  I mean really are you serious? I think there is a whole lot of stuff between "my first P+S" and "Opening a studio" and the first step might be to learn a DSLR*.  My journey to being a pro started with an interest in photography at like 10 years old when my dad gave me his Canon TL.  I shot for mysef for many years before I even considered a job in photography.
> I say why don't you shoot some pictures for a while, and yes take some classes.  After that you might try working for someone mabye even for free.  Actually I have heard recently of people actually paying for internships now but I don't think that was in photography.
> I imagine this like other threads like it will change when details flesh out but right now this post kind of smells to me.



I think you've taken my whole post all wrong.  Read and you will see that I acknowledged that a P&S is quite a bit different from starting professionally.



> I have a goal that I would like to start a small business doing photography. However, I am a beginner at all the pertinent things that need to be learned. *Yes, I can use a point and shoot, but I want to have a heck of a lot more talent than that, and rightly so if I want to do it professionally.*



Did I acknowledge that fact as my quote above?

All I am asking is for some help.  Yes, I have been on many a forum and even moderate a pregnancy forum and I know all about trolls.  But to blatantly say that when I think I've explained myself well.


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## tirediron (Jan 5, 2009)

lee380 said:


> .... Received a beautiful Sony a350 for Christmas. But where to start. Do I read about photography, about the camera and take pictures later or do I go and experiment with the camera?


 

Yes!




Okay, in detail:  First, read your camera's manual.  When you're done, read it again.  Then, go back and ask for assistance with the bits you don't understand. As you read, practice, practice, practice.  Remember, this is digital, the film is cheap!  As you shoot, seek critique.  Once you understand how your camera works, and what the controls do, and their effect on the image (and this will likely take a while) THEN start reading in-depth about composition theory, advanced exposure techniques, lighting, etc...


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## Peanuts (Jan 5, 2009)

I guess one question is what type of photography are you planning on getting into?  we have a wide range of photographers on here, portrait, wedding, landscape etc. etc. so the people in the area you are interested in can probably help you out better.


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## lee380 (Jan 5, 2009)

I've sat here for a good 10 minutes really angered by one person's post on this thread.

First of all, I want to say thank you to those that replied in a helpful and kind manner.  I truly do appreciate it.  But I won't waste your time any longer.

Because of a member's post on this thread, I am angered and actually surprised that I've been treated in such a manner.  I've made a few posts on this forum and that one post has now made me not want to be a part of a forum where I cannot even ask a question.  Why would I frequent here if I feel that I am going to be treated disrespectfully.

I am 39 years of age and not a stupid idiot.  I know what it takes to make a business and the fact that things don't happen overnight.  I know I need skills and knowledge before going from Point and Shoot cameras to setting up a professional studio.  I am not 2 years old and thanks for treating me as such.

Thanks for your time to everyone else who did give me respect.  I do sincerely appreciate it!


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## Peanuts (Jan 5, 2009)

Honestly, I don't think he meant it in a rude manner.  The fact of the matter is that most professionals start out with it as a hobby then develop into a business, and the way it was stated it does read a bit as "so, I have decided I am going to be a photographer!", which is always a bit surprising, but it can of course be done!  

Perhaps just look at his response from a different light.  There is absolutely no point in becoming upset and/or angered because of what a person you don't even know said online.

I would recommend sticking it out.  TPF is a great resource


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## lschaaf (Jan 5, 2009)

If that one person's post angered you, you should read some of the posts on the Photography Discussion forum on their opinions on people want to turn "pro" without  the skill set!  A few are brutal!  I don't even want to go pro and it gets to me!  I guess your post seemed like you were jumping the gun, because most people try out the hobby first and become familiar with the basics before deciding they want to do it as a business.  

Most forums are tough.  When you start asking for critiques of your photos, it will get tougher.  If you do this professionally, your clients will be even tougher still, they paid for your service!  Enough about that...don't quit the forum, ignore what you don't like.  

I am about 2-3 months past where you are.  I've taken a few local workshops and an online course...not sure how I feel about the latter, but definitely recommend local courses.  I also read EVERYTHING and then just stood around with my camera and didn't go out and try taking photos.  I still feel a uncomfortable taking pictures other than snap shots in public places, though I hear it will fade in time.  If there are no good local courses or workshops, try a few books that have assignments and post them here or some books have their own websites so you can post.  I paid $300 for an online course and completed it, but by the end, actually after the 3rd lesson, it was just me and one other person completing the lessons (I was the only one who did the last 2) so it was hard to motivate.  

I just joined one of the Flickr 365 clubs, where you commit to take 1 picture a day for a year and upload it.  It forces you to do something and you can see all kinds of photos, great ones, more snapshots types...a wide variety to give you ideas.  Again, I've been where you are and the hardest thing is to just get going.  You biggest limiting factor will be having small children.  You'll hear over and over, the best time to take pics is sunrise and sunset, which translates to Breakfast and Dinner time!

Good luck and have fun!

Lisa


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## JIP (Jan 5, 2009)

Well as you can see from my post count I have been around this forum for quite a while.  When amatuers come on and say pretty much what you said "I just started taking pictures now I want to start a business" plus the OP has a low post count madness usually ensues hence the troll comment.  I have not been around for a little while but this has always been the case with a post like this so if I angred you I apologise.  

Really though, I have to say you are putting the cart before the horse.  If you REALLY are thinking about trying to "go pro" the very first thing you need to do, as I already said is buy a DSLR.  A P+S will not cut it you need at least a DLSR and personally I would say a good one with fast lenses but you can get started shooting with a basic package.

 The next step is of course shoot shoot shoot.  Post some images here to get critiqued and shoot some more etc. etc. etc....  Alot of people (including myself) have put alot of their lives and money into becoming "professional" and some find people like you as offensive as you found my post.  Not me of course I was just saying you probably have alot to learn and should do so before you start talking "professional".


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## sxesweets (Jan 5, 2009)

Hey Leanne if this is you, It's sweetie from BnB wanted to say Hi and happy to see that you came to check things out here. There are some people on here who get tired of the I wanna be a professional questions cuz there are a lot of them. I know that you are totally interested in this and I hope that you don't take to heart what some of the people on here have to say.  Please do hang around and check things out a bit more. There is an awesome search feature that I have found very helpful. 
Hope to see you around


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## sxesweets (Jan 6, 2009)

JIP said:


> Well as you can see from my post count I have been around this forum for quite a while. When amatuers come on and say pretty much what you said "I just started taking pictures now I want to start a business" plus the OP has a low post count madness usually ensues hence the troll comment. I have not been around for a little while but this has always been the case with a post like this so if I angred you I apologise.
> 
> Really though, I have to say you are putting the cart before the horse. If you REALLY are thinking about trying to "go pro" the very first thing you need to do, as I already said is buy a DSLR. A P+S will not cut it you need at least a DLSR and personally I would say a good one with fast lenses but you can get started shooting with a basic package.


 
I reccomended this forum to her. She was given a Sony A350 for christmas as she mentioned a post or two above this.



JIP said:


> The next step is of course shoot shoot shoot. Post some images here to get critiqued and shoot some more etc. etc. etc.... Alot of people (including myself) have put alot of their lives and money into becoming "professional" and some find people like you as offensive as you found my post. Not me of course I was just saying you probably have alot to learn and should do so before you start talking "professional".


 
Now this I think would have been a great contribution to her original post. I'm sorry that you are frustrated by all the people who enjoy taking pictures and think that they might like to try doing it for a living. Yes lots of people do and some give photographers a bad name. This happens in any industy and always will. She asked for help that was all... If you really don't want to, than don't. 


This isn't directed at anyone in particular but just something that has been bugging me. I will make sure that I don't reccomend this board to anyone else as first and sometimes uneducated posts are slammed fairly often  Some of us really do want to learn though.


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## milavidal (Jan 6, 2009)

It could all just be in you or it could take a while..it all depends on your curiosity...the moroe you read, practice, etc = the more you will be able to learn...you might not understand certain things when you read them the first time, but you might bump into it later down the road and get it right away...read, read, read...practice,practice,practice...ask questions, go through the thousands of topics here in the forum, find your area of interest(landscape,portraits,etc) and work on it ...


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## lee380 (Jan 6, 2009)

sxesweets said:


> Hey Leanne if this is you, It's sweetie from BnB wanted to say Hi and happy to see that you came to check things out here. There are some people on here who get tired of the I wanna be a professional questions cuz there are a lot of them. I know that you are totally interested in this and I hope that you don't take to heart what some of the people on here have to say.  Please do hang around and check things out a bit more. There is an awesome search feature that I have found very helpful.
> Hope to see you around



Hello   Nice to see you!


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## lee380 (Jan 6, 2009)

sxesweets said:


> I reccomended this forum to her. She was given a Sony A350 for christmas as she mentioned a post or two above this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you for this! :hug::


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## lee380 (Jan 6, 2009)

Because I was taken wrongly and thought of as a troll, let me start over again.

The main area of photography that I want to get into is portraits.  Firstly, portraits of kids and because I have some great subjects of my own, it's probably a good idea to start there.

Now, I don't have this big goal of doing this professionally right away.  There's a lot to learn inbetween.  It may happen this year, next year...who knows.  Being realistic, I would *eventually* like to do a "small" business and do it part-time and see where it goes from there. I have enough going on in my day-to-day world that keeps me busy enough.

And, yes, all of it boils down to learning the ins and outs of my camera and about photography.  I don't expect this to happen overnight as nothing ever does 

I have to laugh because I am not so silly to think that a Point and Shoot camera is going to get me there, nor that a point and shoot camera will get me to a goal of a small business.  Thus the reason why I do have a lovely Sony DSLR camera that I requested for Christmas.


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## MikeBcos (Jan 6, 2009)

It is possible for someone inexperienced to start in a small way. I run a print shop, in the couple of months running up to Christmas we did a lot of work for a local lady who was using her Canon Rebel to take family portraits of friends.

She was having us print Christmas cards with these portraits on them. We did six jobs for her and with each one you could see her improve. She's probably never going to make her entire living at photography but she has found a small niche in the local market that she can fill.


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## lee380 (Jan 6, 2009)

I think the biggest mistake people make in getting into any business, and I realized this when I had a successful online gift business, that you can't cover everything.  You have to find one niche and work on that niche.  

I think it's feasible that one can start small too.  I am at an advantage that I have two kids in school and eventually I can maybe reap some business from other moms who want portraits of their kids, etc.

When I had my baby 4 months ago, a mom at school did some portraits of my newborn.  It was then that I realized, I could do this on my own, I have a bit more creativity than she does, and if I can learn about photography, I can do this.

I also seen that from my kid's first pictures at school this year that the photographers really don't take the time to spend with the kids.  I had to get my kid to do retakes as the first ones were horrid as the photographer didn't take the time to get them smiling properly, etc.  If I learned about the proper lighting, I could probably do a better job than what they do. LOL


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## skieur (Jan 6, 2009)

Just to indicate that not all pros spend a great deal of time running their own business or trying to market their services to the general public.

Some get themselves hired into a company or organization, demonstrate their photo skills in public relations events or presentations and eventually get shifted with higher pay over to the media and communications department. The person then just puts in a purchase order for whatever equipment he/she wants to do the job and gets plenty of paid experience in a considerable variety of photographic assignments.  While doing that you will be approached by colleagues and execs to do corporate portraits, weddings, and all kinds of other work on the side for extra pay. Learning television production as well and putting together media presentations can lead toward a management position at greater pay than many pros running their own businesses, or if not equal to the pay of the very top pros, at least permanent and predictable pay plus extra jobs on the side.

skieur


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## JIP (Jan 6, 2009)

So the assumption on your camera was my mistake.  Not being a Sony guy I actually did not know the A350 was a DSLR but I do stand by th troll thing.  I am not saying you are a troll now, you have clarified your intentions.  Actually, your last post would have been a better original post and that supports what I said about things being clarified will make this a better discussion. 
                     You say you are a mod for a pregnancy oard so you know the definition of a troll is someone who makes a controversial statement just to stir up trouble.  As I said this subject comes up all the time (or used to at least) and it stirs things up.  As I said your later statement that was more tempered should have been your original post.

                           Being a father (and an uncle many times over)  myself I have seen alot of crap that comes from "moms with cameras" with Digital Rebels that think they are "profesional" photographers and charge their clients as such.  This kind of "professional" has done alot to destroy he market for "real" "profesional" photographers who paid their dues and actually spent blood sweat and tears and tons of money to hone their craft enough to be able to cal themselves "professional".


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## lee380 (Jan 6, 2009)

JIP said:


> So the assumption on your camera was my mistake.  Not being a Sony guy I actually did not know the A350 was a DSLR but I do stand by th troll thing.  I am not saying you are a troll now, you have clarified your intentions.  Actually, your last post would have been a better original post and that supports what I said about things being clarified will make this a better discussion.
> You say you are a mod for a pregnancy oard so you know the definition of a troll is someone who makes a controversial statement just to stir up trouble.  As I said this subject comes up all the time (or used to at least) and it stirs things up.  As I said your later statement that was more tempered should have been your original post.
> 
> *Being a father (and an uncle many times over)  myself* I have seen alot of crap that comes from "moms with cameras" with Digital Rebels that think they are "profesional" photographers and charge their clients as such.  This kind of "professional" has done alot to destroy he market for "real" "profesional" photographers who paid their dues and actually spent blood sweat and tears and tons of money to hone their craft enough to be able to cal themselves "professional".



Then you must know what it's like to try and do something, like making a clarified post, when you have kids needing you every few minutes and trying to get the right wording across with distractions.

As for trolls, yes, certainly do know all about them.  But the difference is, we give them a chance to screw themselves up before outright coming out and calling them a troll.  We all know the more someone speaks, the more truths or untruths come out.

And being the professional that you are you also know what it probably was like before you started out, how confusing things were at the beginning, you probably wondered where to even begin, where to go from this point to this point.  You may even have asked questions that many people would think you silly for asking.  But you did, and it's the silly questions that help you learn.  If you don't ask questions, you don't learn.  So perhaps a bit of understanding to someone who is just starting out.


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## skieur (Jan 6, 2009)

JIP said:


> So the assumption on your camera was my mistake. Not being a Sony guy I actually did not know the A350 was a DSLR but I do stand by th troll thing. ".


 
The Sony A350 is a good camera that requires good lenses to get the resolving power out of its 14.2 megapixels.  The best of the Minolta lenses, the Sony G lenses, and the Zeiss lenses are ideal for that camera.

skieur


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## JIP (Jan 6, 2009)

lee380 said:


> And being the professional that you are you also know what it probably was like before you started out, how confusing things were at the beginning, you probably wondered where to even begin, where to go from this point to this point. You may even have asked questions that many people would think you silly for asking. But you did, and it's the silly questions that help you learn. If you don't ask questions, you don't learn. So perhaps a bit of understanding to someone who is just starting out.


 
Actually as I said I started shooting at like 10, I shot tons of pictures all through high school including publishing a 'zine with a friend (no big deal).  I went to a 2 year school for photography with lots of small internships while I was there.  I graduated and had a full portfolio and resume to show to perspective employers so no, I was not confused or lost I knew hust what I was looking for.  Even then when I started doing weddings I worked for someone else and shadowed him for several weddings to train and get the experience in that field before I jumped in headlong.  Ann EVEN THEN I worked for peanuts for 2 years with a non-compete contract to get the experience I needed to make decent money.

By the way I did not acutually say you were a troll I simply suggested you might be one because this comes up so much.


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## Kwak12r (Jan 6, 2009)

This whole thing is becoming ridiculous! 
The OP is upset at something that was said in a forum and somebody made a comment and then wants to leave.....
WOW!!! 
With that thin of skin, how do you think you will ever make it in the professional world when somebody criticizes your work?

Just my two cents and that is all that I need to say


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