# Best advice to pass on?



## ShooterJ (Jul 16, 2013)

Hey people,

My cousin has asked me to photograph his wedding.  I'm well aware of what goes into an event like that, and also aware that I'm not set up for it, nor do I have that level of skill just yet.  I took the time to explain to him why he would be better off hiring a professional photographer to cover his wedding vs. having me do it.  However, he got back to me a second time and having looked at his options, is still asking me to do this.  He's planning a small wedding at his brothers lake house and all of their wedding plans are on a budget.  After doing some looking around, he says hiring a professional is outside of what they can spend on a photographer.

I'm not all that familiar with any aspect of wedding photography and explained again to him, that a single shooter with a single camera at novice level wouldn't get him the kind of return he might be expecting.  He insists that the budget is a determining factor and that I will "do fine" for the event.

So my question to those on the forum who DO have some experience in this...  what alternatives can I suggest to him?  I'd like him to get the best out of his wedding as far as photography goes, but I understand his budget concerns and don't really know enough about that field to give him alternatives that may be affordable.

Any ideas or advice that I can pass on to him?

Thanks for the help folks.


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## kundalini (Jul 16, 2013)

Best advice?  Tell the couple to increase their budget or cut something out so they can have a photographer.  Do them the favor of doing the leg work, since you do have a clue of what might be involved.  Find a local camera club or search meetup dot com to find the aspiring photogs that are local and trying to build their portfolio.


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## cgipson1 (Jul 16, 2013)

Josh, find a local "Quasi-Pro" that does relatively decent work... you are able to judge that. There are a few out there... out of the millions that deliver crap. If you want to give a nice wedding gift, cover all or part of the expense. 

Just be careful, they only put the best in the portfolios... and if they have 100 good shots, that may be the only good ones out of tens of thousands of crap images... portfolios can be misleading. And if you recommend a photographer, and they screw up... that makes for hard feelings.


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## Biev (Jul 16, 2013)

Depending on how many people will be at the wedding (and how many of them you know well enough), you could also raise some extra funds, perhaps as a wedding gift, to increase their budget.

I know, advising other people on how to spend their money is easy to do ;-)


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## ronlane (Jul 16, 2013)

Josh, I'd add to what Charlie said. Would you be willing to talk to the quasi-pro and offer yourself as the second shooter? That might help keep the cost down some and help them get some good photos. Just a thought.


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## runnah (Jul 16, 2013)

In times like these i suggest the following links:

U-Haul: Your moving and storage resource

How to Change Your Name - wikiHow


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## 480sparky (Jul 16, 2013)

Offer to help pay for a pro as a wedding gift.


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## ronlane (Jul 16, 2013)

runnah said:


> In times like these i suggest the following links:
> 
> U-Haul: Your moving and storage resource
> 
> How to Change Your Name - wikiHow



Or just block those numbers from your phone


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## runnah (Jul 16, 2013)

In all honesty the one thing I regretted about my wedding... well the second thing I regretted about my wedding was not hiring a better photographer. The only thing that lasts from a wedding is the photos. The food, flowers decoration and music are all a distant memory. 

Explain this to your friend. Or I can do it for you because I am very charming.


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## ShooterJ (Jul 16, 2013)

runnah said:


> In all honesty the one thing I regretted about my wedding... well the second thing I regretted about my wedding was not hiring a better photographer. The only thing that lasts from a wedding is the photos. The food, flowers decoration and music are all a distant memory.
> 
> Explain this to your friend. Or I can do it for you because I am very charming.



runnah the idea of you explaining anything to anyone who knows me personally.. scares the **** out of me.  I do like the input though.  :lmao:


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## ShooterJ (Jul 16, 2013)

In response to Charlie, Ron, 480.. all who suggested that I help pay.. thanks. That's an awesome idea and I hadn't considered it (mainly because I was caught up in trying to ease away from it and think up a less expensive option).

I don't really need to risk a quasi-pro either... honestly,  I have the finances to go with a better photographer and spring for the bill myself.. I loved the idea of doing that as a wedding gift.

Thank you, everyone who responded.


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## pixmedic (Jul 16, 2013)

ShooterJ said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> > In all honesty the one thing I regretted about my wedding... well the second thing I regretted about my wedding was not hiring a better photographer. The only thing that lasts from a wedding is the photos. The food, flowers decoration and music are all a distant memory.
> ...



Just based off of what I know of Runnah from his internet persona....I would TOTALLY let him explain ANYTHING to a family member....as long as i had someone recording with video.


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## ShooterJ (Jul 16, 2013)

Having my gun handy wouldn't hurt either... and maybe some parachute cord and duct tape. :lmao:


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## kathyt (Jul 16, 2013)

What is the photography budget? $1000? $1500? Twelve bucks? Give me an idea and then I can give you some ideas.


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## Low_Sky (Jul 16, 2013)

ShooterJ,  hiring a pro yourself as a wedding gift would also allow you to just enjoy the wedding as a guest, not work your butt off as the photographer.  You might even get to be IN some of the photos.


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## ShooterJ (Jul 16, 2013)

kathythorson said:


> What is the photography budget? $1000? $1500? Twelve bucks? Give me an idea and then I can give you some ideas.



I like the ideas posted about paying for this.. I could comfortably go up to $3,000.. which as I understand is more than adequate for a good photographer.


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## ShooterJ (Jul 16, 2013)

Low_Sky said:


> ShooterJ,  hiring a pro yourself as a wedding gift would also allow you to just enjoy the wedding as a guest, not work your butt off as the photographer.  You might even get to be IN some of the photos.



I'm not a professional in any aspect of photography... doing this myself wasn't an option I was considering. I wanted ideas on how to help Del out... and was given a great idea that I hadn't considered.


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## ShooterJ (Jul 16, 2013)

Kathy, I know you actually do shoot weddings.. so any information you have about what to look for in a good wedding photographer based on what I can spend is more than welcome.


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## Derrel (Jul 16, 2013)

cgipson1 said:


> Josh, find a local "Quasi-Pro" that does relatively decent work... you are able to judge that. There are a few out there... out of the millions that deliver crap. If you want to give a nice wedding gift, cover all or part of the expense.



GO FOR IT! Try and *locate one* of the few *out of millions* that does not deliver utter *crap*.


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## ShooterJ (Jul 16, 2013)

Derrel said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> > Josh, find a local "Quasi-Pro" that does relatively decent work... you are able to judge that. There are a few out there... out of the millions that deliver crap. If you want to give a nice wedding gift, cover all or part of the expense.
> ...



There's no way Del can afford a good wedding photographer.. one reason why it's a small wedding at his brothers lake house... honestly I was caught in the headlights being asked, and didn't think of paying for it myself as a wedding gift.. which is really a simple and great idea.

Charlie gave me that suggestion with a low budget in mind and if I didn't have the money either, it would have been the best bet.

As it is, he seeded the idea which led to a great solution.


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## cgipson1 (Jul 16, 2013)

ShooterJ said:


> In response to Charlie, Ron, 480.. all who suggested that I help pay.. thanks. That's an awesome idea and I hadn't considered it (mainly because I was caught up in trying to ease away from it and think up a less expensive option).
> 
> I don't really need to risk a quasi-pro either... honestly,  I have the finances to go with a better photographer and spring for the bill myself.. I loved the idea of doing that as a wedding gift.
> 
> Thank you, everyone who responded.



You are a hell of a guy, Josh!


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## ShooterJ (Jul 16, 2013)

I have my ups and downs... lol.

I really do appreciate all the feedback. I love this forum.


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## kathyt (Jul 16, 2013)

ShooterJ said:


> Kathy, I know you actually do shoot weddings.. so any information you have about what to look for in a good wedding photographer based on what I can spend is more than welcome.


I will come shoot it. I don't even charge extra for being extremely funny either.


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## ShooterJ (Jul 16, 2013)

So the "how" is answered... anyone who can add to this with some solid information on what I should shop for in a wedding photographer.. that would be welcome advice too.


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## ShooterJ (Jul 16, 2013)

kathythorson said:


> ShooterJ said:
> 
> 
> > Kathy, I know you actually do shoot weddings.. so any information you have about what to look for in a good wedding photographer based on what I can spend is more than welcome.
> ...



LOL.. what's the trip charge from Illinois?


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## 480sparky (Jul 16, 2013)

kathythorson said:


> ShooterJ said:
> 
> 
> > Kathy, I know you actually do shoot weddings.. so any information you have about what to look for in a good wedding photographer based on what I can spend is more than welcome.
> ...



If you go to OK, you need to drive through Iowa first........ or last.........


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## kathyt (Jul 16, 2013)

Okay, so honestly, I would NOT pay for all of it yourself. I would offer to contribute whatever $ amount you would normally give as a gift to this family member. I am a huge believer in not mixing $ with relationships, because it never ends well. They will appreciate their images more in the long run if they have to put more thought into it. This is tough love I know. As for what to look for in a wedding photographer...
If I were wedding photographer shopping I would want to see, touch, talk about the following things...

-I would want to see a couple of COMPLETE wedding galleries from a-z. Not just a few random images here and there.
-are they established? 
-do they have references that you could actually call and talk to? 
-do they offer products such as albums, prints etc? If so can you see them?
-what are the policies regarding contract? Retainer or deposit? What if the wedding gets called off? 
-what is included in the price?
-will there be a second shooter included or is that extra? (I HIGHLY recommend one unless it will be very small)
-what equipment will they be using? Do they have back ups?
-How many hours will he/she be shooting? Are extra hours more $$?
-you need to ask them who will shoot the wedding if something happens to the primary shooter. Who is their designated backup?
-do they have liability insurance? If something happens to them or their equipment on someone's personal property w/o them having liability insurance it can fall on the home owner! Very important! 

These are just a few of the things I get asked all of the time and I expect to answer. I hope this helps some. Good luck.


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## ShooterJ (Jul 16, 2013)

That's a huge help Kathy.. thank you very much. 

I'll see what Del can afford in his budget and help him make up the difference. I like that idea as well, and agree.. people tend to value something more when they have an investment in it.

Thank you again for the tips on what to look for and ask.


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## ShooterJ (Jul 16, 2013)

Thanks again for all the advice and ideas, all who posted. I want them to have a good experience and got some great information.


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## Azizsv (Jul 16, 2013)

:thumbup: Yah hiring a pro, photgrapher is the best thing to share your friend his wedding in a relax way!


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## ShooterJ (Jul 16, 2013)

I'm only a professional shooter in one sense.. and I'm pretty sure they don't want me bringing that skill to their wedding. :lmao:


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## ronlane (Jul 16, 2013)

ShooterJ said:


> kathythorson said:
> 
> 
> > ShooterJ said:
> ...




If Kathy comes to shoot it, I'll volunteer to be her second or assistant.


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## ShooterJ (Jul 16, 2013)

You and many others, I'm sure. :lmao:


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## kathyt (Jul 16, 2013)

ronlane said:


> ShooterJ said:
> 
> 
> > kathythorson said:
> ...


You can be my second shooter Ron.


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## ShooterJ (Jul 16, 2013)

Ron is about to injure himself dancing around .. lol


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## ronlane (Jul 16, 2013)

ShooterJ said:


> You and many others, I'm sure. :lmao:



But I'm already in Oklahoma and I work for cheap. 



kathythorson said:


> woohoooo!!  :smileys::smileys:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## ShooterJ (Jul 16, 2013)

:lmao:


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## The_Traveler (Jul 16, 2013)

From a purely future relationship perspective, I would ask him his budget, tell him you'll get it done and leave how much you spend a secret.


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## ShooterJ (Jul 16, 2013)

Yeah, based on everything I got here.. I'll sit down with him, explain the benefits of a pro again and find out what they can afford .. from there I can offer to make the photography arrangements and then just pitch in my part discreetly.  
Del will appreciate that.. he's a hard working guy, likes to provide.


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## kathyt (Jul 16, 2013)

Ron, first we have to get you acclimated to the Mark III, 70-200, 85 1.2 (this one gets tricky,) and the 135. I've got my work cut out for me. I can just picture it now...you giving stern direction to the bride and groom for perfect wedding poses, during golden hour, overlooking a lake. Or.....something like that.


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## 480sparky (Jul 16, 2013)

Wow.  Everyone's making plans, and no one knows where or when the nuptuals are.  :er:


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## ShooterJ (Jul 16, 2013)

The setting will definitely be nice. His brother has a beautiful lake house. It's the same house I was at on the 4th.


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## ronlane (Jul 16, 2013)

kathythorson said:


> Ron, first we have to get you acclimated to the Mark III, 70-200, 85 1.2 (this one gets tricky,) and the 135. I've got my work cut out for me. I can just picture it now...you giving stern direction to the bride and groom for perfect wedding poses, during golden hour, overlooking a lake. Or.....something like that.



Sweet that whole set-up is on my wish list. I'll download the manual and the AFLAC Duck workout and get started today.

LOOK OUT guys, I'm in training.


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## kathyt (Jul 16, 2013)

480sparky said:


> Wow.  Everyone's making plans, and no one knows where or when the nuptuals are.  :er:


I already have the whole vision in my head. Then once the wedding is over, Ron and I will crack open a couple of beers to discuss how the event went while we do a little fishin'. Yes Ron, I will put your minnow on your hook.


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## ronlane (Jul 16, 2013)

480sparky said:


> Wow. Everyone's making plans, and no one knows where or when the nuptuals are. :er:



Hey Sparky, it's summer in Oklahoma, we will drop everything to go to the lake.


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## ShooterJ (Jul 16, 2013)

I'm probably gonna wind up as a wedding bouncer.. *sigh* oh this life I chose..


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## ronlane (Jul 16, 2013)

kathythorson said:


> 480sparky said:
> 
> 
> > Wow. Everyone's making plans, and no one knows where or when the nuptuals are. :er:
> ...



This redneck knows how to bait a hook, heck I've even been noodling (or Hand fishing).


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## ShooterJ (Jul 16, 2013)

ronlane said:


> 480sparky said:
> 
> 
> > Wow. Everyone's making plans, and no one knows where or when the nuptuals are. :er:
> ...



Amen.. the lake is the place to be.  (And Greg has waverunners and four wheelers out there)


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## ronlane (Jul 16, 2013)

ShooterJ said:


> ronlane said:
> 
> 
> > 480sparky said:
> ...



Sweet, I can bring the Jeep and a big cooler full of refreshing cold beverages.


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## ShooterJ (Jul 16, 2013)

Sounds like a plan.. good Oklahoma wedding.  Haha


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## ronlane (Jul 16, 2013)

ShooterJ said:


> Sounds like a plan.. good Oklahoma wedding. Haha



Wait, to make it a good Oklahoma wedding, I'm pretty sure we need guns, don't we?


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## ShooterJ (Jul 16, 2013)

Oh don't worry .. I've got plenty to share and "bring your own" is welcome in this family.  Hehehe


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## ShooterJ (Jul 16, 2013)

Wedding at the lake with waverunners, four wheelers, cold beer and firearms... now we're on the right track. :lmao:


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## gsgary (Jul 16, 2013)

Hand out one of these to everyone that goes to the wedding Ilford HP5 Single Use Camera inc Processing - Ilford Single Use


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## ShooterJ (Jul 16, 2013)

gsgary said:


> Hand out one of these to everyone that goes to the wedding Ilford HP5 Single Use Camera inc Processing - Ilford Single Use



I hate to say this... but the only experience a lot of my family has with photography are mug shots.


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## ronlane (Jul 16, 2013)

ShooterJ said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> > Hand out one of these to everyone that goes to the wedding Ilford HP5 Single Use Camera inc Processing - Ilford Single Use
> ...



Hey, just have a short tutorial before hand. Put it in terms they can understand. You point this end to what you want to shoot and pull the trigger. It's just shooting a gun.


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## 480sparky (Jul 16, 2013)

ronlane said:


> 480sparky said:
> 
> 
> > Wow. Everyone's making plans, and no one knows where or when the nuptuals are. :er:
> ...




It's _summer_, and it's _Oklahoma_. You* HAVE* to drop everything to go to the lake. :er:


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## ronlane (Jul 16, 2013)

480sparky said:


> ronlane said:
> 
> 
> > 480sparky said:
> ...



Exactly. So you've experienced this once in your life?


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## gsgary (Jul 16, 2013)

ShooterJ said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> > Hand out one of these to everyone that goes to the wedding Ilford HP5 Single Use Camera inc Processing - Ilford Single Use
> ...



That will be ok, tell them its just like shooting a gun


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## 480sparky (Jul 16, 2013)

ronlane said:


> Exactly. So you've experienced this once in your life?



I've been to Oklahoma enough to know why it's so God-blessed FLAT............. it gets so hot everything melts and levels itself all out.

And I plan on being there this November.


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## ronlane (Jul 16, 2013)

480sparky said:


> ronlane said:
> 
> 
> > Exactly. So you've experienced this once in your life?
> ...



I've got to borrow that line. Where in OK, will you be and for how long? Shooter and I are in the OKC area.


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## gsgary (Jul 16, 2013)

480sparky said:


> ronlane said:
> 
> 
> > Exactly. So you've experienced this once in your life?
> ...



Flat and hot does not sound good to me motorbikers want mountain and sharp bends


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## 480sparky (Jul 16, 2013)

ronlane said:


> I've got to borrow that line. Where in OK, will you be and for how long? Shooter and I are in the OKC area.



I visit family in Dallas for Thanksgiving. So I drive right through OKC.


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## ronlane (Jul 16, 2013)

480sparky said:


> ronlane said:
> 
> 
> > I've got to borrow that line. Where in OK, will you be and for how long? Shooter and I are in the OKC area.
> ...



I have family in Dallas too. But it's my brother and he's the youngest, so we make him come to Oklahoma for the holiday.


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## e.rose (Jul 16, 2013)

ShooterJ said:


> Hey people,
> 
> My cousin has asked me to photograph his wedding.  I'm well aware of what goes into an event like that, and also aware that I'm not set up for it, nor do I have that level of skill just yet.  I took the time to explain to him why he would be better off hiring a professional photographer to cover his wedding vs. having me do it.  However, he got back to me a second time and having looked at his options, is still asking me to do this.  He's planning a small wedding at his brothers lake house and all of their wedding plans are on a budget.  After doing some looking around, he says hiring a professional is outside of what they can spend on a photographer.
> 
> ...



If he's saying all that then they don't care, nor put any value into photography.

Just do it.

And that goes WAY against what it is I USUALLY tell people, but it sounds like he's giving you lots of pushback.  Anyone who explicitly states that "budget is the determining factor" and they came back to you because you're free... then just do it.  I mean if you WANT to (cause weddings are a lot of work and a pain in the ass to be dong it for free), because if you don't, he'll just find some newb off craigslist and have them do it for the same price.

I know I'm in a forum full of photographers, but hey... guess what?  Some people REALLY just don't care, NOR value what we do.  They DO exist.  And it infuriates me as much as it does the next photographer (because in my mind I don't understand how anyone would be okay with sh*tty photos of their wedding... or WHATEVER for that matter, but they exist  ).

Those are the people I pass on and let them fumble through their own way, but after I've educated them once on the importance of spending on quality work (which it sounds like you have... several times... ) then I send them on their merry way to hire the girl down the street that they've threatened to hire because she's more affordable.  More power to ya.  Enjoy your Point 'n Shoot session.


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## e.rose (Jul 16, 2013)

ShooterJ said:


> Low_Sky said:
> 
> 
> > ShooterJ,  hiring a pro yourself as a wedding gift would also allow you to just enjoy the wedding as a guest, not work your butt off as the photographer.  You might even get to be IN some of the photos.
> ...



In that case, ignore everything i just said.

Better for you anyway.


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## gsgary (Jul 16, 2013)

Shoot it drunk you will be more relaxed


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## ShooterJ (Jul 16, 2013)

Lol rose.. they actually DO want nice photos.  But some people really can't drop a couple of grand on a photographer.  

He followed my initial advice and looked around but it was outside what they could spend.

I got back with him today and discussed it with him again, based on the advice I got here and it's worked out. He'll be spending what he can and I'll help him make up the difference on the cost.


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## The_Traveler (Jul 16, 2013)

ShooterJ said:


> Lol rose.. they actually DO want nice photos.  But some people really can't drop a couple of grand on a photographer.
> 
> He followed my initial advice and looked around but it was outside what they could spend.
> 
> I got back with him today and discussed it with him again, based on the advice I got here and it's worked out. He'll be spending what he can and I'll help him make up the difference on the cost.



Lucky for him that he has a generous friend like you with good judgement.

L


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