# Tag-along



## thetrue (Dec 20, 2012)

Alright, I have my flame retardant suit on so it's safe to ask - if someone were to approach you about being a tag-along, or an unofficial apprentice of sorts, what would get the most positive response from you?

The reason I ask is that I'd really like to learn more about how a professional works, and obviously would like to up my personal skill level. I refuse to approach people about weddings or portrait work because, frankly, I've never done it and don't want to try to deliver a product (at no charge, no less) unless I'm confident that I can handle it. 

Products, scenes, landscapes, etc., I could deliver, but I'd really like to get in to people and event type stuff - if for nothing other than to share images confidently. 

Thanks all!


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## Tamgerine (Dec 20, 2012)

A big problem, that I myself have encountered, is that people don't want to train their competition for free. If you approach a photographer and tell them you want to learn how a professional works, and you want to improve your skills, and you want this and you want that, then of course they're not going to want to let you work for them. You're only concerned about you. It's not about you, it's about them. It's their business, it's their clients. It's not about what this relationship does for YOU - those are called favors and they're done by friends and family, not businessmen. Why would someone want to let you tag-along and work with them only to turn around right away and use that knowledge to compete against them? 

You need to approach it for their benefit, what can you do for them? What do they get out of letting you tag-along with them? They're the one putting forth all the effort and time to teach you. What's in it for them? I've heard far too many nightmare stories about a photographer letting someone tag-along and they screw it up, by stealing their techniques and ideas, or posting images they weren't supposed to, or being late for a shoot, or being rude to clients, or contacting clients themselves. They have a right to be wary. 

Throw out a lot of hooks and sometimes you'll get a fish. Most of the time you won't. I've been ignored or told no (politely) more times than I have been told yes. Either keep trying or take a workshop and pay people for the time they take to teach you.


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## thetrue (Dec 20, 2012)

The issue I have with that rebutle is that I'm not trying to start a business. I own a body shop, I make a comfortable living, and photography is strictly hobby-ish. I have no problem with adding value for a professional, and I'm capable of keeping discreet when it comes to jobs that I'd be going along with. Hell, I'm more than willing to carry my own GL insurance if they'd like. I am aware that approaching someone on this idea might make them weary, which is the purpose of this thread - to find out what I might say that might help a pro realize any value that I could add.


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## CCericola (Dec 20, 2012)

If this is just a hobby, many pros offer workshops and will take you on as an assistant (usually little to no shooting) for a fee.


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## thetrue (Dec 20, 2012)

That's like the Red Cross telling me that to hand out water at a a disaster scene, I have to pay them...

The concept that I'd have to pay someone that is PAYING the person next to me is obscene.


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## Mully (Dec 20, 2012)

When I maintained a fulltime studio I would always have an intern from one of the schools, whatever they wanted to learn I would teach them. I think today some pro photographers think charging a fee to teach someone is another way to make money in this poor economy.


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## ClickAddict (Dec 20, 2012)

thetrue said:


> That's like the Red Cross telling me that to hand out water at a a disaster scene, I have to pay them...
> 
> The concept that I'd have to pay someone that is PAYING the person next to me is obscene.



It may be obsene to you, but look at it from from the other assistant.

His thoughts: The photog pays me to HELP him with the knowledge I ALREADY have, yet he pays this other guy the same amount to teach him?

Would be a little hard to handle for him.  And as for doing it for free.... if you're going to learn anything it means he is taking time explaining, time he should be shooting.  Time is money.  You want it for free?

Some photographers will do this.  I hope you find one.   I've met some that do.  Just don't be surprised that most wont. (Unless personal friends of course)


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## boborone (Dec 20, 2012)

Have you looked on meetup.com for photog groups in the Trenton or Philly area?


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## CCericola (Dec 20, 2012)

I think I didn't explain things properly. The workshop you pay for may include being able to go on a shoot with the professional and is included as a part of the fee. But because you are not their employee, their insurance will not cover you so there would be no shooting. You just get to be a fly on the wall.


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## CCericola (Dec 20, 2012)

Like in college, if you want to audit a class you still need to pay something.


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## thetrue (Dec 20, 2012)

Alright, I think I've been misunderstood. I know how to use a camera. I know how to use OCF. I know how to take a photo. Standing by the way side is basically what I'm looking to do, except I'd like to bring my camera and use it. Would I interfere? No. I have enough knowledge to be an assistant, but I don't need a job. I want to be able to go along and play "second shooter" to practice, to learn, to experience the event. I can't very well walk in to a church on any given Saturday and start snapping away. I also pointed out that I will gladly pick up a GL policy. I have a good relationship with my insurance agent and she'd be glad to set it up for me. If the only way to do this is to start a business and be ridiculed on TPF for starting a photography business without experience, so be it. Remember the flame retardant suit from the OP? Still have it, ready and waiting.


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## thetrue (Dec 20, 2012)

boborone said:


> Have you looked on meetup.com for photog groups in the Trenton or Philly area?


I'll have to look in to that, I wasn't even aware that it existed. Thanks!


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## boborone (Dec 20, 2012)

thetrue said:


> boborone said:
> 
> 
> > Have you looked on meetup.com for photog groups in the Trenton or Philly area?
> ...



There are quite a few in my area. Just guys/girls getting together to share. Pros to noobs. Can find someone willing to let you tag along there.


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## nycphotography (Dec 20, 2012)

thetrue said:


> Alright, I think I've been misunderstood. I know how to use a camera. I know how to use OCF. I know how to take a photo. Standing by the way side is basically what I'm looking to do, except I'd like to bring my camera and use it. Would I interfere? No. I have enough knowledge to be an assistant, but I don't need a job. I want to be able to go along and play "second shooter" to practice, to learn, to experience the event. I can't very well walk in to a church on any given Saturday and start snapping away. I also pointed out that I will gladly pick up a GL policy. I have a good relationship with my insurance agent and she'd be glad to set it up for me. If the only way to do this is to start a business and be ridiculed on TPF for starting a photography business without experience, so be it. Remember the flame retardant suit from the OP? Still have it, ready and waiting.



great attitude.  what kind of photography are you interested in working on?


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## thetrue (Dec 20, 2012)

Event and portrait/people type photography. My apologies for letting my frustration get the best of me, it's just that I guess the way I presented my ideas made it easy to take them out of context.


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## boborone (Dec 20, 2012)

thetrue said:


> Event and portrait/people type photography. My apologies for letting my frustration get the best of me, it's just that I guess the way I presented my ideas made it easy to take them out of context.



Do you clean up nicely? Like look good not a slob to go out? I have a buddy in NY who is a party photog, he might let you come out and check him out.

PS, I ask cause I don't clean up too good myself. I would only be able to go out to concerts or sports type events with him if I went.


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## thetrue (Dec 20, 2012)

boborone said:


> thetrue said:
> 
> 
> > Event and portrait/people type photography. My apologies for letting my frustration get the best of me, it's just that I guess the way I presented my ideas made it easy to take them out of context.
> ...


Not to toot my own horn, but I do clean up quite nicely.


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## thetrue (Dec 21, 2012)

Nothing? Anyone? I've yet to get an answer for my real question...


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## bratkinson (Dec 21, 2012)

I managed to 'hook up' with some one more experienced and still into film a few years ago when we worked together. We've gone out a couple of times and we both learned from each other. 

Perhaps the best idea is check out any local photography hobby groups, or even a local photography store (the few that still exist) and see what develops (pun intented). If all else fails, go out on your own to places likely to be photographed and perhaps someone with a bunch of big white lenses may show up. 

What are your photography interests? For me, I look to my other hobby, trains, and frequently encounter other photographers out as well.  There's lots of real rookies taking train pictures, but the good ones eventually come to light.


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