# Beginner's lighting. What do you want to know?



## Village Idiot (Jun 18, 2008)

Let's see if this thread works or if anyone responds to it at all. Ask a question, get an answer. Any question. "Why do flashes make my pictures suck so bad", "what's a flash", "how can I light this situation", etc... There's more than enough knowledgable people on here to explain the answer to any question here.

So....go!


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## seamus14 (Jun 18, 2008)

Well, since I need more help than one questions can answers can you recommend some books on the subject. I'd be interested in learning about the use of various types of lighting equipment and it's application. 

Thanks


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## Village Idiot (Jun 18, 2008)

seamus14 said:


> Well, since I need more help than one questions can answers can you recommend some books on the subject. I'd be interested in learning about the use of various types of lighting equipment and it's application.
> 
> Thanks


 
As far as lighting application, if you're doing off camera lighting, "Light Science & Magic" is a good book to read through. It shows you how to light certain situations and problems. It's fairly technical and can provide a good base to start off with. I'm not sure of anything as far as books that are for what types of light to use.

What are you planning on shooting?


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## Rachelsne (Jun 18, 2008)

if I am using a reflector (which i have never done yet) how do I know where to place it?


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## Big Mike (Jun 18, 2008)

> if I am using a reflector (which i have never done yet) how do I know where to place it?


You ask yourself where you want more light, then you look at where the light is coming from and place the reflector in a position that will reflect some light to where you want it.  The closer the reflector is to the subject, the stronger the light will be.

If you are using constant light or flash/strobe lights that have modeling lamps, you can usually see a change on the subject when it's reflecting light onto a spot/area.  If you are using Speedlites (hot shoe flash units) then you may have to try a bit of guess and test...but it's usually pretty straight forward as to the direction & angle that you need.

As for where to place/use a reflector for artistic purposes...that's up to you.


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## Village Idiot (Jun 18, 2008)

Rachelsne said:


> if I am using a reflector (which i have never done yet) how do I know where to place it?


 
Another idea could be to imagine the light as a tangible object. You know it's emitting from your flash like a giant ray. Your reflector will catch some of the bounce and aim it where you're pointing it at. You know your reflector is fairly large, doesn't emit it's own light, and so can be no more intense than the source light. Like your flash, any light that comes off of it dies down the further away it is. Treat it as a 2nd less powerful flash. If you want less power from your reflector you pull it back, if you want more you put it closer. 

Basically like Mike said, but with a little more visualization involved.


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## asfixiate (Jun 18, 2008)

Great thread VI.


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## Big Mike (Jun 18, 2008)

Good Point 'VI'.

Once we can 'visualize' light...it all starts to make sense.  I think that is one of the biggest challenges for beginners especially when using flash.  

I can remember a personal 'Eureka' moment when I started to 'see the light' rather than just looking at what the light was hitting.  A good example is a beautiful, colorful sunset.  Most people will stop and look at the sunset...but a photographer who sees the light, will turn around and see what that light can do.


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## im_trying11 (Jun 18, 2008)

what does a softbox do??
will a quantaray speedlight be better than the pop up on the camera


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## Dao (Jun 18, 2008)

I have a old Vivitar 2000 flash. (I bought it long long time ago with my 2MP digicam)  I know I cannot use it with my Canon Xti as the trigger voltage is more than 100V (I measured it with my multimeter).

Do you think I can use it as a off camera flash?  Or I should better off throw it away.  I am planning to get a flash for my Canon.  But just want to see if that Vivitar is worth to even mess around.


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## Jose Saenz (Jun 18, 2008)

Yes, great idea for a thread. I'm new to photography and so I'm completely in the dark when it comes to lighting  (*cue drummer) :er:.

So out of the million questions that I have so far regarding the subject, I'll just pick one to start off with. Alright...so if I wanted to start doing studio portraits, other than the actual camera, what equipment would you guys say is absolutely essential to begin with?...what would you consider "the bare minimum kit"?

-Jose Saenz


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## JerryPH (Jun 18, 2008)

A little something I could add to this thread:

Flash basics:
http://jerryphpics.blogspot.com/2008/03/2-flash.html


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## Early (Jun 18, 2008)

I heard the term 'feathering' to get softer light on a subject.  What is it?


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## Big Mike (Jun 18, 2008)

> what does a softbox do??


A softbox uses a diffusion material to spread the light out, the affect of which is to increase the size of the light source...which makes for softer light.


> will a quantaray speedlight be better than the pop up on the camera


Certainly.  An accessory hotshoe flash will probably be more powerful, it will be higher above the camera and it may give you the options to tilt and/or rotate the head, which lets you bounce the flash (which makes a big difference).  Plus, with the right tools, you can use it off camera.


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## Village Idiot (Jun 18, 2008)

im_trying11 said:


> what does a softbox do??
> will a quantaray speedlight be better than the pop up on the camera


 
A soft box makes the light soft. Grab a flash light, a napkin, and a ball. Shine the flash light on the ball. You'll see a hard shadow and a harsh direct light. Place the napkin between the flash light and the ball. You'll see a bigger softer shadow and the light will be softer and more diffused as you're making the source of the light bigger.

A soft box operates like that for speed lights and studio strobes but has the added feature of not allowing additonal light to spill over diffuser and onto the scene.

Define better. If it's more powerful and has a tilt head than it has the oppurtunity to be used as a bounce flash and to be used effectively to light subjects and the scene, where as the pop up has a lot of light fall off. Make sure the Quanataray is adjustable manually and see if it has the added benefit of e-ttl metering with your camera. If you want a flash that works automatically, one from the manufacture of your camera may be your better bet.

The guide number tells how far a flash can fire at an aperture of f/1 with the power set to full. To give you an idea, the pop up flash has a guide number of about 40 feet. The Canon 580EX II, being one of the most powerful speed lights on the market at the moment, has a guide number of about 165'. I'd expect the quantaray to have a guide number of about 100'-120'. You can probably find this number by searching on the internet.



Dao said:


> I have a old Vivitar 2000 flash. (I bought it long long time ago with my 2MP digicam) I know I cannot use it with my Canon Xti as the trigger voltage is more than 100V (I measured it with my multimeter).
> 
> Do you think I can use it as a off camera flash? Or I should better off throw it away. I am planning to get a flash for my Canon. But just want to see if that Vivitar is worth to even mess around.


 
If you google Canon xti manual pdf, you'll see that the xti's hot shoe is rated for 250v maximum. Most of the newer cameras are rated to take 250v, it's some of the much older DSLR's like the Canon 300D and previous that were rated for the lower voltage levels.

If it's manual, if can absolutely be used as an off camera strobe.



Jose Saenz said:


> Yes, great idea for a thread. I'm new to photography and so I'm completely in the dark when it comes to lighting (*cue drummer) :er:.
> 
> So out of the million questions that I have so far regarding the subject, I'll just pick one to start off with. Alright...so if I wanted to start doing studio portraits, other than the actual camera, what equipment would you guys say is absolutely essential to begin with?...what would you consider "the bare minimum kit"?
> 
> -Jose Saenz


 
Lights, a way to fire them if needed, and a backdrop. The biggest question as what type of lighting do you want? You can get hot lights that stay on all the time and are WYSIWYG when ligthing a subject. You can get cheap small AA battery powered flashes or large studio flashes that are powered by a driect wall plug or a power pack. 

The smaller flashes are portable and easier to take with you and move around, but they're less powerful and up until "recently" have had less in the way of popular known light modifiers for them.

The larger studio lights have modeling lights that give you an idea of ratios and what you're going to get when you fire them. There's tons of modifiers and they have big power. The down side is that they require a power sources, can be difficult to manuever, and are not very portable.

You also have to find a way to trigger the strobes. Some camera manufactures have strobes that will fire based on the camera's pop up flash and need nothing else. Some require add ons to fire these proprietary systems. You can also buy cheap little optical triggers that fill fire a flash when it sees another flash fire, this could be your pop up flash. You can also get radio triggers which attach to the camer and then the strobes. They send a signal to your strobes telling them to fire when the camera fires and they clear up most of the wire. Large studio lights usually have optical slaves built in. You can also use other triggers like a pc cable or radio triggers to fire these lights. It all depends on two things: preference and budget.


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## Big Mike (Jun 18, 2008)

> I have a old Vivitar 2000 flash. (I bought it long long time ago with my 2MP digicam) I know I cannot use it with my Canon Xti as the trigger voltage is more than 100V (I measured it with my multimeter).


I can't confirm this, but I'm pretty sure that the XTi is rated for up to 250v.  You could also use a 'safe sync' to go between the flash and the camera.


> Do you think I can use it as a off camera flash?


Absolutely.


> Or I should better off throw it away


You could send it to me


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## Village Idiot (Jun 18, 2008)

Early said:


> I heard the term 'feathering' to get softer light on a subject. What is it?


 
It's basically firing your light past your subject instead of directly at your subject. It's used a lot in portrature but can be used for any application. It's supposed to create a softer light on the subject as it falls across them.

Found this link. It has diagrams that explain it better.
http://www.studiostyles.net/wp/archives/92


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## im_trying11 (Jun 18, 2008)

how exacly does this fire if its not on the hotshoe?
http://www.ritzcamera.com/product/531660769.htm?bct=t13031003%3Bcidigital-cameras-and-accessories%3Bciflashes i was looking into gettin it for the price is it better than the pop up thanks in advance


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## medic001918 (Jun 18, 2008)

This is a great thread.  I've learned quite a bit just be reading these posts so far.  I have some more reading to do with the links that were provided.

When shooting indoors do you ever find it a good idea to fire the flash straight at the subject?  I seem to get more pleasing results when I bounce the flash.  Is this because of something I'm doing?  Or is bouncing simply a better technique indoors?

I also have a set of three omin-bounce diffusers.  One is white, one is a brownish/yellowish color and one is blueish.  What scenario's are best for these to be used?  The white one seems to soften the light quite a bit.  The others cast their respective colors over the entire photo and I haven't found a shot that really appeals to me when trying to use them.

This is a camera specific question.  I have a Nikon D80 that can fire another flash wirelessly.  Is it possible to trigger that flash wirelessly without having the on camera flash fire?  I've tried and can't make it do it.  It seems that the signal for the flash is coming from the initial light of the on camera flash.  I think I might be doing something wrong with it though.

Thanks
Shane


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## Village Idiot (Jun 18, 2008)

im_trying11 said:


> how exacly does this fire if its not on the hotshoe?
> http://www.ritzcamera.com/product/5...3;cidigital-cameras-and-accessories;ciflashes i was looking into gettin it for the price is it better than the pop up thanks in advance


 
It has an optical slave and fires when it "sees" another flash fire, like your pop up. I didn't see if it was even adjustable. A great link for learning about off camera lighting is www.strobist.com

Check out the drop downs on the right to find the lighting 101 section. It's going to be more expensive, like $130ish if you go used, to get a nice one light setup, but you'd probably be much more happier with the results.


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## Village Idiot (Jun 18, 2008)

medic001918 said:


> This is a great thread. I've learned quite a bit just be reading these posts so far. I have some more reading to do with the links that were provided.
> 
> When shooting indoors do you ever find it a good idea to fire the flash straight at the subject? I seem to get more pleasing results when I bounce the flash. Is this because of something I'm doing? Or is bouncing simply a better technique indoors?
> 
> ...


 
It depends on the look you're going for. Bouncing is reliable for a nice soft light. Direct is going to give you a hard light and harsh shadows.

Diffusers like that are a touchy subject. Some people use them, some don't. The act like a bare bulb and through light in a near 360 degree direction. This uses extra power of course and some people argue that a simple bounce card will work.

The colored ones are most likely for if you're shooting and getting ambient light and need to change to color cast of the flash to match the ambient so your white balance is consistant, like if you're shooting under incandescent light bulbs, you'd use the yellowish one to have your flash match.


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## Big Mike (Jun 18, 2008)

Sorry if I'm stepping on your toes by answering posts in here...but it's fun.  
*edit* dang, you beat me to that one.  



> When shooting indoors do you ever find it a good idea to fire the flash straight at the subject? I seem to get more pleasing results when I bounce the flash. Is this because of something I'm doing? Or is bouncing simply a better technique indoors?


Bouncing is a great technique for a couple of reasons.  Firstly, it changes the angle of the light, so that it's not coming from the same direction as the camera.  This lets the light 'model' the subject and gives them depth and dimension (that is also why off camera light is so good).  Also, bouncing the light effectively increases the size of the light source, in relation to the subject.  So instead of the light being the size of the flash, it's the size of the reflection off of the ceiling.  A bigger light source makes for softer lighting, which is usually beneficial for 'better' looking shots.  Lastly, the light might be bouncing off of several surfaces and 'surrounding' the subject, getting rid of harsh shadows...this could also be called soft light.


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## Village Idiot (Jun 18, 2008)

Big Mike said:


> Sorry if I'm stepping on your toes by answering posts in here...but it's fun.
> *edit* dang, you beat me to that one.
> 
> 
> Bouncing is a great technique for a couple of reasons. Firstly, it changes the angle of the light, so that it's not coming from the same direction as the camera. This lets the light 'model' the subject and gives them depth and dimension (that is also why off camera light is so good). Also, bouncing the light effectively increases the size of the light source, in relation to the subject. So instead of the light being the size of the flash, it's the size of the reflection off of the ceiling. A bigger light source makes for softer lighting, which is usually beneficial for 'better' looking shots. Lastly, the light might be bouncing off of several surfaces and 'surrounding' the subject, getting rid of harsh shadows...this could also be called soft light.


 
20 heads are better than one.


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## .Serenity. (Jun 18, 2008)

How can i reduce harsh shadows in a subject in bright light? Actually any natural light and i end up with some harsh shadows.


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## Big Mike (Jun 18, 2008)

> How can i reduce harsh shadows in a subject in bright light? Actually any natural light and i end up with some harsh shadows.


The harshness (hardness) of a light is determined by the distance and effective size of the light source.  The sun, for example, is a hard light source.  Sure it's huge, but it's so far away that it's effectively a small source.

If you were to put up a large diffusion screen (say a white bed sheet) and put your subject behind it.  The light source would then be the sheet, which would be large in comparison to a person...so the light would be much softer.

Outdoor light can be very soft, clouds can act as a diffusion material.  An overcast day may allow you to shoot with almost no shadows at all.

Another thing you can do, is use light to fill in the shadows cased by the bright hard light from the sun.  You could use something to reflect some of the light back into a person's face, which would even out the light on their face and allow you to capture that as a photo without harsh shadows.  You can also use an artificial light source (like a flash) to fill in the shadows and even out the light.


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## im_trying11 (Jun 18, 2008)

what do you need to do with a manual flash compared to a auto one


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## Big Mike (Jun 18, 2008)

> what do you need to do with a manual flash compared to a auto one


With a manual flash, you need to find a way to figure out the exposure...you need to find out what aperture to use or what flash power setting will give you the desired effect.

You could use a flash meter, the flash's Guide Number or just guess and test.


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## im_trying11 (Jun 18, 2008)

http://www.ritzcamera.com/product/531660066.htm?bct=t13031003%3Bcidigital-cameras-and-accessories%3Bciflashes i was looking at that for a beginer and possibly a slave


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## Big Mike (Jun 18, 2008)

Yup, that's a pretty simple manual flash.


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## Village Idiot (Jun 18, 2008)

im_trying11 said:


> what do you need to do with a manual flash compared to a auto one


 


Big Mike said:


> With a manual flash, you need to find a way to figure out the exposure...you need to find out what aperture to use or what flash power setting will give you the desired effect.
> 
> You could use a flash meter, the flash's Guide Number or just guess and test.


 
As in another thread currently going GN = the distance a flash can fire at ISO 100, full power, and an aperture of f/1.0.

Say your Guide number is 150', the means your flash can fire (theoretically and according to the manufactures) 150' @ ISO 100 and aperture of f/1.0.

Well you don't own a $3000 f/1.0 prime? Use this: GN = distance to subject / aperture or Aperture = GN / Distance to subject or distance = GN / aperture.

so say you want to shoot at f/5.6 with a flash that uses a guide number of 150', you would do the equation: distance = 150'/5.6

That gives you 26.79' as the place you would place your flash to properly expose a subject with ISO 100 and f/5.6. You can of course affect this by cutting the power down. Also, different flashes have different GN's.


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## Village Idiot (Jun 18, 2008)

im_trying11 said:


> http://www.ritzcamera.com/product/5...3;cidigital-cameras-and-accessories;ciflashes i was looking at that for a beginer and possibly a slave


 
Keep in mind the GN on that flash is 60'. The XTI's pop up is 43'  and something like a cheap Sunpak 383 is 120'. The sunpaks are $80 new though and a lot more than that quantaray.


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## im_trying11 (Jun 18, 2008)

is it hard to use a manual flash because right now im really short on cash


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## Big Mike (Jun 18, 2008)

> is it hard to use a manual flash because right now im really short on cash


It's easy if you understand it.  If not, it can be confusing.  I'd recommend sticking with the pop up (or no flash at all) until you can afford something better...at least something that can tilt & swivel like the Sunpak mentioned above.


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## King Mango (Jun 18, 2008)

If were to just be a hobbyist photog, (I harbor no dreams of ever going what I would consider to be pro) but I wanted a good flash for shooting people at family gatherings, or friends etc... What would be a good choice? I at some point plan on buying a DSLR, but I don't suppose there are any laws saying I can't buy a flash first if I see a good sale in the meantime right?


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## im_trying11 (Jun 18, 2008)

ok thanks for your input


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## Village Idiot (Jun 18, 2008)

King Mango said:


> If were to just be a hobbyist photog, (I harbor no dreams of ever going what I would consider to be pro) but I wanted a good flash for shooting people at family gatherings, or friends etc... What would be a good choice? I at some point plan on buying a DSLR, but I don't suppose there are any laws saying I can't buy a flash first if I see a good sale in the meantime right?


 
It depends on what DSLR you're going to buy. A good Canon flash that's capable of being used on "auto mode" and manual mode is the 430ex. It's $230 on B&H right now. It's a complete waste of money if you plan on buying a Nikon, Sony, Olympus or Pentax camera.


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## Dao (Jun 18, 2008)

Village Idiot, Big Mike ...

I just want to say ....   You Guys ROCKS!!
:hail::hail:


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## King Mango (Jun 18, 2008)

As much as I hate to support Sony after this whole rootkit fiasco last year, I have been eyeballing an a350.
My aunt has a D40x so I have to buy a diferent brand just for the fun of arguing over who has the better camera. J/K of course. I could very well go Nikon I haven't really thought that much about what to get other than just paying attention to what's out now and what's to come.
But that's several months off and I'm just rambling. I didn't know that flashes were such a proprietary feature! Thanks for the tip VI.


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## medic001918 (Jun 18, 2008)

Dao said:


> Village Idiot, Big Mike ...
> 
> I just want to say ....   You Guys ROCKS!!
> :hail::hail:



+1,000,000.  These guy's are doing a great service here to the beginners of photography.  Especially in light of all the "anti-beginner" threads and posts that I've been reading recently.  Thanks again guy's.  We can't thank you enough for taking the time and being willing to share your immense knowledge with us.  You've both probably forgotten more about photography than I'll ever personally know.  But I do appreciate you taking the time to share with us and help us progress.

Any plans or would you be willing to do a similar thread for different style of photography?  Or different photography topics in general?

Shane


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## Village Idiot (Jun 18, 2008)

medic001918 said:


> +1,000,000. These guy's are doing a great service here to the beginners of photography. Especially in light of all the "anti-beginner" threads and posts that I've been reading recently. Thanks again guy's. We can't thank you enough for taking the time and being willing to share your immense knowledge with us. You've both probably forgotten more about photography than I'll ever personally know. But I do appreciate you taking the time to share with us and help us progress.
> 
> Any plans or would you be willing to do a similar thread for different style of photography? Or different photography topics in general?
> 
> Shane


 
Manual mode! If you start it, they will post.


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## Sarah23 (Jun 18, 2008)

When I have my flash on E-TTL...how is that different then on M? 

I know on M, It has the option to change the strength as fractions like this (1/1, 1/2, 1/4) but when I have it on E-TTL, it has it as thirds (-3, -2 2/3, -2 1/3, -2.....0....+1/3, +2/3, +1...)

Is that still the strength? Why is it different then on manual?


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## Big Mike (Jun 18, 2008)

> When I have my flash on E-TTL...how is that different then on M?


In manual, the flash fires with a preset power level.  At full power, it's 1/1.  At 1/2, it's half of full power.  At 1/8 it's three stops below full power...and so on.  The flash does not communicate with the camera for metering...only when to fire.

When in E-TTL mode, you have 'Through The Lens' metering.  Canon's method of flash metering is to fire a pre-flash just before the shutter opens.  The camera then reads the reflected light coming into the lens.  It uses that information to decide how much power the flash should use.  Then when the shutter opens, it fires the flash again, this time it's for real.
This all happens very fast....you probably wouldn't even notice it.

When in E-TTL....you can adjust the FEC (flash exposure compensation)...and you can adjust it in 1\3 increments.  What this does, is change the flash's power away from it's base reading.  So if you set it to +1, it would add one full stop of light to it's reading before firing the flash the 2nd time.  For one shot, it might be firing full power, the next time it might be a lot less...but it will still add one stop over what it meters...which is, of course, dependant on what it's reflecting off of.

E-TTL is great for something like a wedding, where the lighting and situation will change from shot to shot.  With studio work, manual flash is just fine because the lighting & subject aren't changing for every shot.

Take note that the camera & flash must be in communication for E-TTL to work.  So the flash must be on the camera or attached via the Canon off shoe cord.  You can use E-TTL wirelessly, but you need both a master unit and a slave unit.  A Master can be a 580/550EX flash or the ST-E2.  A slave could be a 580/550EX or a 430/420EX.  You could even add more slaves to the mix and fire several flashes...while still utilizing E-TTL metering.   That being said, most photographers prefer to use manual flash control when there are multiples involved (or even with just one, off-camera unit)...the reason being is that manual flash is predictable while E-TTL is dependant on the reflectivity of the scene and Canon's metering algorithms. (in can sometimes give unpredictable results).


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## Lyncca (Jun 18, 2008)

Dao said:


> Village Idiot, Big Mike ...
> 
> I just want to say ....   You Guys ROCKS!!
> :hail::hail:



Yup, yall are my new heroes!


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## Sarah23 (Jun 18, 2008)

Ok, so when I am using the flash on camera and bouncing it or something like that, I should keep it on M and use it that way. No need to have it on E-TTL unless I have it set up with a trigger of some sort and the light/conditions are changing?

Also...when using E-TTL...you have to use something like a trigger, right? (like a pocket wizard or Cactus trigger?)


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## Big Mike (Jun 18, 2008)

> Ok, so when I am using the flash on camera and bouncing it or something like that, I should keep it on M and use it that way. No need to have it on E-TTL unless I have it set up with a trigger of some sort and the light/conditions are changing?
> 
> Also...when using E-TTL...you have to use something like a trigger, right? (like a pocket wizard or Cactus trigger?)


You have that backwards.  When using the flash *on-camera* and especially when bouncing...that is a great time to use E-TTL because the camera meters the flash/light even if it's bouncing all around.  It meters the light that gets back into the lens, which is what we want to know.

When you have the flash *off-camera*...you have a few options.  You can use the Canon wireless system and keep E-TTL (or use manual)...but if you use a radio system like the Cactus triggers or Pocket Wizards...then you don't have the option of E-TTL so you must use manual.  People often prefer the radio system because it's better (more reliable) than IR, which is what the Canon system uses.  So, you could say that it's a trade off....you give up E-TTL metering but gain the reliable triggering of a radio system.  (there is a new product called Radio Popper, which will allow E-TTL with the benefits of radio signals...but you still need to have a Canon master and slave system.


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## Sarah23 (Jun 18, 2008)

OK...so when I did have E-TTL on when I was boucing the flash...it was doing a pre-flash and then taking a reading, and then doing the real flash? But none of the settings changed for the shot. I had to change the FEC to get the right lighting.


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## Big Mike (Jun 18, 2008)

> OK...so when I did have E-TTL on when I was bouncing the flash...it was doing a pre-flash and then taking a reading, and then doing the real flash?


Yes.



> But none of the settings changed for the shot. I had to change the FEC to get the right lighting.


I'm not sure what you mean that none of the settings changed :scratch:...but yes, you sometimes do have to adjust the FEC to get what you want out of the flash.  The only thing that really changes with E-TTL is the power of the flash.  Remember, it's dependant on how much light is reflected back, so if you have something really bright, it might thing that it doesn't need a lot of light and it would underexpose the image...just like the camera's regular metering.

Also, if you have ambient light in the equation (which we usually do) that might have to be considered...and it certainly has to be considered if you are trying to find a balance between flash and ambient.


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## Sarah23 (Jun 18, 2008)

It probably didnt make sense, because I dont know what I am talking about and dont know what all E-TTL does. 

When it does the pre-flash and takes a reading...what does it do then? You say it changed the power of the flash? But I never noticed it change it. 

I think the biggest thing I am thinking back on, is some newborn shots I took, and I was bouncing my flash off of a white wall nearby. (it was a pretty dim room) I had E-TTL on (and the flash ON the camera) but I still had to change the FEC a lot to try and get the right amount of light.  Was the camera supposed to take a reading from the pre-flash, and do something about it possibly being over exposed, or under exposed?


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## Big Mike (Jun 18, 2008)

> When it does the pre-flash and takes a reading...what does it do then? You say it changed the power of the flash? But I never noticed it change it.


It changes it, based on the scene in front  of the lens.  So essentially, you could take a photo of a person in a dark room or outside under a tree...and the _exposure_ of the person should be the same (at least the part of them that is lit with the flash).



> I think the biggest thing I am thinking back on, is some newborn shots I took, and I was bouncing my flash off of a white wall nearby. (it was a pretty dim room) I had E-TTL on (and the flash ON the camera) but I still had to change the FEC a lot to try and get the right amount of light. Was the camera supposed to take a reading from the pre-flash, and do something about it possibly being over exposed, or under exposed?


What mode was the camera in?  E-TTL works slightly differently in different modes.  In P (or auto) mode, the camera sets a typical shutter speed (1/60) and maybe the max aperture and then relies on the flash to pick up the rest.  If you are in Av or Tv, the shutter speed and aperture will be set as if there is no flash, and the flash will act as fill, rather than trying to be the main source of light.

I like to use flash with the camera in M mode and the flash in E-TTL mode.  That way, I set the aperture that I want, the flash will match it's power to that (with E-TTL preflash) and I set the shutter speed based on how much ambient exposure I want.


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## husky_mom (Jun 18, 2008)

well... right now I have a Canon S3... I know I know... but even so I want to get more light...what do you reccomend??... a flash for hotshoe? which one?...

and also I want to take portrait shots and was wondering what equipment is ehte basic as I´ve been looking for some but I´m just too blonde right now.. LOL... 

basically light for indoor shoots and perhaps some to fill in in outdoor shoots... really really basic stuff... just to give a more natural look...

later on I can upgrade my digi but still have same lights... thanks


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## Big Mike (Jun 18, 2008)

I don't think the Canon S3 IS has a hot shoe...so you can't use an accessory flash.

You could use an accessory flash, off camera, with an optical slave trigger, but you would need to either disable the camera's pre-flash or use an expensive optical trigger that can be set to ignore a pre-flash.



> and also I want to take portrait shots and was wondering what equipment is ehte basic as I´ve been looking for some but I´m just too blonde right now.. LOL


That's a loaded question.  I'd suggest using window light for portraits.

Really, if you want to get into studio style lighting or off-camera lighting etc...you will need to get a better camera.


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## husky_mom (Jun 18, 2008)

actually it has a hotshoe... hence I asked.. LOL.. but I also think an off camera lighting/flask ...

and I know about getting a better camera but I really want to see what I can achive with good light on this one...

It takes pretty decent pics but the light sometimes is blah..

would some constant light be better.... warm? cool?... I have no clue.. LOL... I read strobes are a more trail and error thing...but what can I get to start adn play


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## Big Mike (Jun 18, 2008)

The hot shoe must be hidden, I looked it up on Dpreview but couldn't see it.
Anyway, if you have a hot shoe, then I'd recommend a Canon flash like the 430EX.

If you want to get serious about portrait photography, forget about constant light and go with flash.  The two main options are studio style strobes and hot shoe flash units.  They each have pros and cons.


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## seamus14 (Jun 18, 2008)

Village Idiot said:


> As far as lighting application, if you're doing off camera lighting, "Light Science & Magic" is a good book to read through. It shows you how to light certain situations and problems. It's fairly technical and can provide a good base to start off with. I'm not sure of anything as far as books that are for what types of light to use.
> 
> What are you planning on shooting?


 

Thanks. I'll make that my next read after Understanding Exposure, which is on the way. I am very new so I'm still shooting everything trying to figure what I really enjoy. The only thing I can tell you now is what I don't plan on shooting.


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## rubbertree (Jun 18, 2008)

My DH made me a soft box about 3feet square. I used draped white fabric off the top, sides and bottom. Attached 2 clamp lights to either side with 40 watt regular light bulbs. Pictures still don't look the way I want them to.
Do I need higher wattage? A specific light bulb? Do I set my white balance on auto or must it be set to the type of light bulb used?
Can I use the soft box anywhere in the house or does the lighting within the house make a difference?


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## JerryPH (Jun 19, 2008)

rubbertree said:


> My DH made me a soft box about 3feet square. I used draped white fabric off the top, sides and bottom. Attached 2 clamp lights to either side with 40 watt regular light bulbs. Pictures still don't look the way I want them to.
> Do I need higher wattage? A specific light bulb? Do I set my white balance on auto or must it be set to the type of light bulb used?
> Can I use the soft box anywhere in the house or does the lighting within the house make a difference?



As a general rule, a strobe will give you better quality light than constant on lighting.  SOme may say I am almost predjudiced against constant on... nope, I just know the results are better from personal experience.  Constant on lighting is also hotter for your subjects and has zero portability.

Anyways, to answer your questions...
40 watts is not going to be enough.  Mot who do this, use 100-150 watt bulbs.

WB can be set to auto if yoiu are shooting in RAW.  If shooting in JPG, set the camera to the proper WB.

You can use the setup anywhere in the house, but if the bulbs cannot overpower ambient light, then you are going to get colour casts from what ever ambient is... whch is kind of illogical, since the purpose of using additional lighting is to produce an environment specific to YOUR needs, right?


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## Village Idiot (Jun 19, 2008)

rubbertree said:


> My DH made me a soft box about 3feet square. I used draped white fabric off the top, sides and bottom. Attached 2 clamp lights to either side with 40 watt regular light bulbs. Pictures still don't look the way I want them to.
> Do I need higher wattage? A specific light bulb? Do I set my white balance on auto or must it be set to the type of light bulb used?
> Can I use the soft box anywhere in the house or does the lighting within the house make a difference?


 
IF you have the cash to spare a sun pak 383 and 15' pc cable will produce a better quality light and overall result with your softbox. That's probably a $95 purchase if you're going new.

If you're not shooting with daylight balance bulbs, you'll be closer to the correct WB with AWB on the camera, the problem is that AWB really isn't very good. If you're shooting with a standard interior light bulb and you're getting orange pictures, switch your WB to incandescent I think. I have to check to see what all the setting are, but I think that's the right one...


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## Village Idiot (Jun 19, 2008)

husky_mom said:


> actually it has a hotshoe... hence I asked.. LOL.. but I also think an off camera lighting/flask ...
> 
> and I know about getting a better camera but I really want to see what I can achive with good light on this one...
> 
> ...


 
www.strobist.com

This guy started a cult movement for using speedlights off camera. His following is huge. My point? Some times he shoots with a Canon G9 advanced P&S.


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## sto12m (Jun 19, 2008)

Hi all, first step into this forum and this is just the thread i'm looking for!

Consider this case, i'm inside a hall with a 16 meters tall roof, lights are off but the object i'm aiming at is being shot by two spotlights behind me as i'm facing the target.

So for this case, what kind of settings do i need to do? Flashes, diffusals, shutter speed, etc..

I'd be greatly thankful for any advice!

Cheers!


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## Village Idiot (Jun 19, 2008)

What type of event? If you're still in a place with white ceilings, you may be able to still use bounce flash, even at that height.


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## Big Mike (Jun 19, 2008)

If the object is adequately lit with the spot lights, you might be OK with no flash.  But make sure that your exposure is set for the object and not all the dark area around it.  So if you can, take a spot reading or get in close to set your exposure.


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## cszakolczai (Jun 19, 2008)

I'm really looking to possibly pick up some studio lighting or just some lighting in general.  I am picking up an SB600 possibly an SB800 within the next week, but I'd also like to get some other lighting which is easy to transport.  I hope that question made sense, if not than sorry and I'll rephrase. 

Also what do you think about this?  
does this really work that well?

http://store.garyfonginc.com/liiido.html


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## Big Mike (Jun 19, 2008)

> I'm really looking to possibly pick up some studio lighting or just some lighting in general. I am picking up an SB600 possibly an SB800 within the next week, but I'd also like to get some other lighting which is easy to transport. I hope that question made sense, if not than sorry and I'll rephrase.


If you are looking for 'studio lighting' that is easy to transport, then you might as well stick with Speedlights or similar units.  Stick one on of those on a light stand with an umbrella and you have a great, portable 'studio' type light.

If you haven't yet, read THIS.

The Gary Fong Lightsphere (or Fong Dong, as some like to call it) can be a useful tool in some situation.  It basically throws light out in all directions, with the hope that the light will bounce off of things and come back to surround your subject.  If there is nothing to bounce the light off of, the light is wasted, which makes recycle times longer and uses up the batteries faster.


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## andrew99 (Jun 19, 2008)

Before spending money on the Gary Fong device:  DIY Lightsphere


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## cszakolczai (Jun 19, 2008)

yeah I was going to make my own, I just didn't know if it was worth my time or not to even try haha, thanks for the responses.


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## Syndac (Jun 19, 2008)

I guess I can throw my question in here rather than a new thread.  I recently bought a new flash a few months ago and noticed the manual is twice the size of my camera manual which is odd.  So far I'm primarily using bounce flash with diffuser when possible for a more natural look, however I'm pretty much guessing the manual setting every time via trial and error.  Is there an easier way to do this?  I figured since it's bouncing auto modes wouldn't be too effective since the surface distance/reflection would vary every time.  Am I doing it correctly and if so does the guesswork get any easier with more experience?

Thanks.


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## Village Idiot (Jun 19, 2008)

Syndac said:


> I guess I can throw my question in here rather than a new thread. I recently bought a new flash a few months ago and noticed the manual is twice the size of my camera manual which is odd. So far I'm primarily using bounce flash with diffuser when possible for a more natural look, however I'm pretty much guessing the manual setting every time via trial and error. Is there an easier way to do this? I figured since it's bouncing auto modes wouldn't be too effective since the surface distance/reflection would vary every time. Am I doing it correctly and if so does the guesswork get any easier with more experience?
> 
> Thanks.


 
As far as my experience of bouncing with TTL, I usually up the power to compensate and it works fairly well and give a consistant result. I don't do it too often though, so I don't have a lot of experience with that.


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## rubbertree (Jun 19, 2008)

thank you!


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## Big Mike (Jun 19, 2008)

> I figured since it's bouncing auto modes wouldn't be too effective since the surface distance/reflection would vary every time. Am I doing it correctly and if so does the guesswork get any easier with more experience?


Bouncing is the ideal time to be using auto flash metering..._because_ of all the variables.  

Think about it this way.  If you are using manual control of the flash, you use the distance from the flash to the subject to calculate/estimate the flash power required.  If you bounce, you need to figure in the distance to the surface (ceiling) and then the distance from there to the subject.  Plus, you would have to figure in the amount of light that the the surface will absorb (rather than bounce) and that will depend on many factors like the color, smoothness and texture of the surface.

When using auto flash metering...all of that is taken into account because the camera is measuring the light that is coming into the lens...after it has bounced around and come back.  

And either way, you might still need to adjust the power of the flash.  In manual it's just a simple more or less power.  In auto, you dial in a plus or minus FEC.


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## sto12m (Jun 19, 2008)

Village Idiot said:


> What type of event? If you're still in a place with white ceilings, you may be able to still use bounce flash, even at that height.



Its a grand wedding dinner inside a school hall, actually it was my friend who attended this dinner and he was not prepared enough for this event. And yeah its a white ceiling; the height of the hall is just an estimation, as my friend told me that it is like a 4-5 stories shop lot.

So I thought of taking this case as an example for me to learn something from it.

Thanks for the advice! Much appreciate it!


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## sto12m (Jun 20, 2008)

Big Mike said:


> If the object is adequately lit with the spot lights, you might be OK with no flash.  But make sure that your exposure is set for the object and not all the dark area around it.  So if you can, take a spot reading or get in close to set your exposure.



Hi, spot reading is the same as spot metering right? Yeah, that would do but it might take some time for it to auto-set the exposure where we might lose a few shots during the calibration time (especially when the spot light is not constantly aiming at one target).

And yes, I'm learning something here. Thanks for the advice Mike!


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## switchback (Jun 20, 2008)

Really nice thread. Is anyone going to start the thread on manual settings?


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## JerryPH (Jun 20, 2008)

Village Idiot said:


> As far as my experience of bouncing with TTL, I usually up the power to compensate and it works fairly well and give a consistant result. I don't do it too often though, so I don't have a lot of experience with that.




Let me add to that a little... a nice beginner's trick to do is one day, when you are practicing, is to set down some base info to help get you into the approximate range, that way you are not starting from scratch all the time, AND if you want to continue to use manual flash settings.

The trick is to recreate and confirm the basic setup that you use most often.  Say for example, that you mostly shoot full body portraits and you settle in on ISO 200, flash at 1/8th, shutter speed at 200 and aperture of F/7.1 and when the subject is 10 feet away from you with your camera mounted flash, you get a properly exposed picture.  Well a lot of the hard work is now done... take this info (SS 200, ISO 200, F/7.1, 10 ft.) and put it on a small piece of tape and slap it on the side of your flash.  

That way, then next time you fall into this situation, you already start off from known good settings.  If you are off a little (distance changes for example), you can easily compensate by using a little common sense (ie: either open up the aperture or increase the flash), based on your needs.

Makes "getting there" a little faster.


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## Helen B (Jun 20, 2008)

rubbertree said:


> My DH made me a soft box about 3feet square. I used draped white fabric off the top, sides and bottom. Attached 2 clamp lights to either side with 40 watt regular light bulbs. Pictures still don't look the way I want them to.
> Do I need higher wattage? A specific light bulb? Do I set my white balance on auto or must it be set to the type of light bulb used?
> Can I use the soft box anywhere in the house or does the lighting within the house make a difference?



I suggest that you start a new thread about this so that you get a full discussion without it being lost among other discussions.

Best,
Helen


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## asfixiate (Jun 20, 2008)

Does anyone have any examples with the use of gels?  Village i know you said you use them.


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## Village Idiot (Jun 20, 2008)

asfixiate said:


> Does anyone have any examples with the use of gels? Village i know you said you use them.


 
I've got a few where I use gels for effect. The problem with using gels in a normal environment is that unless there's gel and no gel pictures to compare, you really can't tell. That's the point though. If you're shooting inside with your flash and still aiming to get some ambient and the interior lights are standard light bulbs, you're going to have a good WB for whatever the flash hits and orange for whatever you're ambient is exposing. If you set your WB to tungsten to compensate for the interior lights, your flash will be blue and everything else will be normal. That's when you would put a CTO (Color Temperature Orange) gel on the flash so it changes the color temp to match the interior lights. With your WB set to tungsten, everything would appear as normal as you're chaning the flash to match the interior lights.

Below is a four light setup. Two about 45 degrees to the rear with shoot through umbrellas on either side of the model, one with a beauty dish above the model and infront of, one behind for back light.

All the flashes had no gels. We weren't exposing for ambient at all in these photos.

Click on any to go to the flickr page with a larger photo.
No gel on the back light WB set to 5600k:




I wanted to warm up the back light as it was really white, so I put the CTO gel on it. See the difference?

CTO gel on the back light WB set to 5600k:




This was a three light setup. Two to the sides of the bike and slightly infront with shoot through umbrellas and one low backlight. The sides were gelled with CTO orange as I wanted to start out with a blue back light. If you look at the first picture, you can see if matches the example of setting your WB to match the interior lights (sides, CTO gelled) but having and un-gelled flash which turns out blue.

CTO gels on the side lights none on the back. WB set to tungsten:




New effect, new gel. Bright red.

CTO gels on the side lights red gel on the back. WB set to tungsten:




Any guess as to what happened here? It even surprised me at first.

CTO gels on the side melted red gel on the back. WB set to tungsten:




In the last photo, the 580EX II I was using on full power to blow out the backlight and give it an huge powerful light ended up melting a hole in the gel. The blue of the flash coming through the hole mixed with the melting red to produce this cool purple color. Don't try this at home. :mrgreen:


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## Big Mike (Jun 20, 2008)

Good examples.

I broke out my gels for the first time last weekend.  I was shooting on white seamless for a background so I experimented with using gels to change the color of the background.  It worked great.
I also used a gel on a back light to give some color accents to the model's hair.  
I can't show the examples though, the images are under wraps until the client uses them for competition.


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## andrew99 (Jun 20, 2008)

Any thoughts on using CTO's to warm up skin tones on a person?  I haven't had time to experiment with this yet, but I've heard of using a 1/4 CTO to warm up skin (I mean warming above and beyond correcting for WB).  Also I'm curious about doing this on different skin types (Caucasian vs Latin skin).  I'm usually in desperate need of a tan, so I'll try it on myself later!


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## Village Idiot (Jun 20, 2008)

Big Mike said:


> Good examples.
> 
> I broke out my gels for the first time last weekend. I was shooting on white seamless for a background so I experimented with using gels to change the color of the background. It worked great.
> I also used a gel on a back light to give some color accents to the model's hair.
> I can't show the examples though, the images are under wraps until the client uses them for competition.


 
20 different AB filters used at 1/4, 1/2, and full on white and black backgrounds.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=162431


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## milavidal (Jun 20, 2008)

Would it be possible to speculate what this photographer uses for lighting?

http://www.linimbergphotography.com/


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## Big Mike (Jun 20, 2008)

> Would it be possible to speculate what this photographer uses for lighting?
> 
> http://www.linimbergphotography.com/


You will have to single out an image...there must be hundreds of shots on that site.


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## milavidal (Jun 20, 2008)

just most of his weddings, specially the photos he has taken indoors. Basically, looks like he bounces the light off something but I dont think lugging around something bigger than himself would be something he does. So I was wondering what makes his indoor lighting so soft. I dont think i can link his photos but if you click on weddings, then Paula and Mathew's album is the 25th, the 27th picture in their album is an example


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## Big Mike (Jun 20, 2008)

From the few shots that I looked at, I don't see anything too unordinary in terms of lighting.  The light is sort of soft, but if you look at the shadows (when you can see them) the edges are clearly visible, meaning that the light isn't that soft.  You can also see catch lights in the eyes and the ones I saw, looked to be in the middle of the eye, maybe up a little.

My guess, from the images I looked at, would be that he's using  flash on a bracket.  He might be using something to diffuse the flash and/or bouncing it off the ceiling.

More than that, the shots are sharp and the exposure is good.


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## milavidal (Jun 20, 2008)

thank you


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## medic001918 (Jun 21, 2008)

sto12m said:


> Hi, spot reading is the same as spot metering right? Yeah, that would do but it might take some time for it to auto-set the exposure where we might lose a few shots during the calibration time (especially when the spot light is not constantly aiming at one target).
> 
> And yes, I'm learning something here. Thanks for the advice Mike!



This might be a little bit off topic, but what exactly is the difference between the different metering modes?  I think my camera has three different modes, but I'm not sure exactly how they differ.

Thanks again,
Shane


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## Big Mike (Jun 22, 2008)

> This might be a little bit off topic, but what exactly is the difference between the different metering modes? I think my camera has three different modes, but I'm not sure exactly how they differ.


The three metering mode that you have are probably Matrix, Center wighted and center only.  Check your manual, I'm sure it's in there.

Basically, those refer to the shape/size of the area in the view finder that the camera's meter uses to make a reading.  Matrix will basically consider the whole scene, probably with a slight bias to the centre.  This would be good for a landscape shot or something that has several different spots with contrasting tone...and you want to balance the exposure.  
Center weighted will put more importance on the center area of the scene and center only will disregard the outer areas and only use the center.  This would be good if you were shooting a single person and you wanted to expose for the person and disregard the rest of the scene.  For example, if you were shooting somebody indoors and they had bright windows behind them.  If you use the whole scene for metering, you will end up with a silhouette of the person.  But if you meter for only the person, you can expose for them.  In this scenario, you would choose center only and then get close to take your reading, lock the exposure and then back up and take the shot.


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## asfixiate (Jun 27, 2008)

bump


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## rein (Jun 27, 2008)

ok, do i need direct power to be able to use strobe lights and other kinds of light, or does it use battery like toe flashes


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## rein (Jun 27, 2008)

basically i need something mobile, because i found myself taking pictures outdoors for cars and models, and i dont have a studio


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## AndrewG (Jun 28, 2008)

Here's a good book on portrait lighting which I found very useful showing both the photograph and a technical diagram of the lighting set up for each subject. Available light portraiture is also covered as well as a section of pro tips for wedding, business, children etc.
'50 Portrait Lighting Techniques', John Hart, Amphoto, 1995, ISBN 0-8174-3860-2


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## Village Idiot (Jun 28, 2008)

rein said:


> basically i need something mobile, because i found myself taking pictures outdoors for cars and models, and i dont have a studio


 
Smaller speed lights generally use AA batteries but don't provide the power. Studio strobes generally need power like from plugging them into an outlet. You can buy batteries though. The speed light setup might not give you the power you need, but it'll be a bit cheaper if you put your kit together right.


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## rein (Jun 28, 2008)

with that being said, aside from a gas powered generator, what are my other options for portable electricity


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## Miaow (Jun 28, 2008)

Here's a question I was wondering about recently (I couldnt see this in any other post in this but I did scan through quickly cause so many posts etc)

How far away will an inbuilt flash effectively light a subject - ie say a bird in a tree etc...


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## Village Idiot (Jun 28, 2008)

rein said:


> with that being said, aside from a gas powered generator, what are my other options for portable electricity



Batteries. www.alienbees.com sells a battery that will power a studio strobe (AC is it?) and will their Alien Bee B800 320w/s strobe 1200 times at full power. That's three of their strobes at full power getting 400 shots or four at 300 (if you can put four on that is, not exactly sure). If you turn the power down even more, then you'll get more shots.

It's not as portable as you'll have to have extension cords and your strobes will always be tethered to a battery. You'll have a lot more power. 

Are you doing paid work?


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## Village Idiot (Jun 28, 2008)

Miaow said:


> Here's a question I was wondering about recently (I couldnt see this in any other post in this but I did scan through quickly cause so many posts etc)
> 
> How far away will an inbuilt flash effectively light a subject - ie say a bird in a tree etc...



Depends on the camera. I think Canon's pop up flashes have a guide number of around 40'. That means at ISO 100 and f/1, it could light up a subject at 40'. Seeing as how your fastest lens most likely isn't a f/1, you're looking at more along the lines of 15' at f/2.8, I believe.


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## Miaow (Jun 28, 2008)

Village Idiot said:


> Depends on the camera. I think Canon's pop up flashes have a guide number of around 40'. That means at ISO 100 and f/1, it could light up a subject at 40'. Seeing as how your fastest lens most likely isn't a f/1, you're looking at more along the lines of 15' at f/2.8, I believe.



Thanks for the info


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## rdompor (Jun 28, 2008)

Hey guys, great thread!

I've been thinking about buying a strobe for myself.  I've been shooting with a sunpak 383 for a while and I've played with a 430EX off camera on numerous occasions and I really want to get the power of a studio strobe light.  

I was thinking about something very simple to get me started.  A strobe head on a stand with an umbrella to reflect or shoot through.  I plan on triggering it with a long PC cord since wireless seems to be either expensive or unreliable.  I have also been considering a battery pack because I find that the most interesting places to shoot are away from some kind of outlet (although I would still like to keep the option of using an outlet when one is available). 

I've seen kits on B&H for around $300 - $400 which is pretty much what my price range is unless someone can possibly list a few things for me to consider.  What do you guys think about this kit? Is it worth it?  I can't really afford much more than this since I am but a lowly college student.


Any help is really appreciated.  Thank you.


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## rein (Jun 28, 2008)

Village Idiot said:


> Batteries. www.alienbees.com sells a battery that will power a studio strobe (AC is it?) and will their Alien Bee B800 320w/s strobe 1200 times at full power. That's three of their strobes at full power getting 400 shots or four at 300 (if you can put four on that is, not exactly sure). If you turn the power down even more, then you'll get more shots.
> 
> It's not as portable as you'll have to have extension cords and your strobes will always be tethered to a battery. You'll have a lot more power.
> 
> Are you doing paid work?


 
thanks for the info.

right now i dont get paid, but since im already somewhat in the industry, im trying to build my name into it, right now i am just doing shots for friends, i am not planning to go career with my photography, just maybe another source of income whenever possible and its another hobby that i just love so much, wether i make money with it or not.


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## Village Idiot (Jun 29, 2008)

rdompor said:


> Hey guys, great thread!
> 
> I've been thinking about buying a strobe for myself. I've been shooting with a sunpak 383 for a while and I've played with a 430EX off camera on numerous occasions and I really want to get the power of a studio strobe light.
> 
> ...


 
It depends on what brand you're looking at. As much as I hate to push a product unless I'm sure of it, here's a good starter setup for one light.

http://alienbees.com/beginner.html

Alien Bees are very good budget studio lights. That setup above comes with light stand, umbrella, and travel case for $358.

Elinchrom makes a good entry level kit that's a little more expensive, but is more consistent on power output and supposedly on color temp as well.


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## rdompor (Jul 1, 2008)

Village Idiot said:


> It depends on what brand you're looking at. As much as I hate to push a product unless I'm sure of it, here's a good starter setup for one light.
> 
> http://alienbees.com/beginner.html
> 
> ...




What are the advantages of studio lights vs. speedlights like canon's EX's?  The speedlights seem way more portable and versatile.  Do you think that a nice setup can be had at cost?


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## LynziMarie (Jul 1, 2008)

I just found a great book on Lighting that I think will help all of us beginners, I've skimmed through it and it has alot of info 

Lighting
David Prakel
(includes film and digital)
I found it at Barnes and Noble for $25... it's a good little book!


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## Village Idiot (Jul 1, 2008)

rdompor said:


> What are the advantages of studio lights vs. speedlights like canon's EX's? The speedlights seem way more portable and versatile. Do you think that a nice setup can be had at cost?


 
Studio lights = more power. The Alien Bee I listed is 320w/s. Most standard speedlights are about 60w/s. When I was shooting yesterday, I had my AB B800 at about 1/16 to get an even lighting ratio with my speed lights that were all at full power or close to it.

If you went all manual flashes you could get something like this.

3x Sunpak 383 = $240
3x Cheap lightstands = $60
2x Shoot through umbrella = $40
3x umbrella adapters = $45

$385 for your lights.

Another $60 if you go with cheap Cactus/e-bay radio triggers and you're in business. Those aren't the most reliable triggers in the world, but they work. For something more reliable to trigger three flashes, you're looking at close to $400.


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## Early (Jul 2, 2008)

Village Idiot said:


> It's basically firing your light past your subject instead of directly at your subject. It's used a lot in portrature but can be used for any application. It's supposed to create a softer light on the subject as it falls across them.
> 
> Found this link. It has diagrams that explain it better.
> http://www.studiostyles.net/wp/archives/92


I'll have to try that and then compare.  Thanks.


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## mamarazzi_hrd (Jul 2, 2008)

Hi, newb here!!! I have a Nikon D40x with a SB600 Speedlight. I usually just take all my photos with flash using trial and error since I am so new to the flash thing.

When I try to meter using my flash (TTL), the reading shows the same as it does without the flash....that my photo will be very underexposed. But when I take it with my flash, the exposure is fine. Am I doing something wrong? Do you not watch the exposure meter when using a flash? 

I hope my question made since and that I don't sound like a total goob.....


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## Village Idiot (Jul 2, 2008)

mamarazzi_hrd said:


> Hi, newb here!!! I have a Nikon D40x with a SB600 Speedlight. I usually just take all my photos with flash using trial and error since I am so new to the flash thing.
> 
> When I try to meter using my flash (TTL), the reading shows the same as it does without the flash....that my photo will be very underexposed. But when I take it with my flash, the exposure is fine. Am I doing something wrong? Do you not watch the exposure meter when using a flash?
> 
> I hope my question made since and that I don't sound like a total goob.....


 
Your in camera meter meters ambient regardless of what's connected to it. As long as you have the Flash Exposure Sorrection (FEC) set for the scene, the flash will fire based off of several things like aperture and focal length of the lens. Shutter speed has not a lot to do with flash photography unless you start talking about sync speeds.

So if you were to expose properly via the in camera meter and use the flash, you'd get a photo with everything exposed correctly and then a correct exposure from the flash as well.


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## mamarazzi_hrd (Jul 2, 2008)

Village Idiot said:


> Your in camera meter meters ambient regardless of what's connected to it. As long as you have the Flash Exposure Sorrection (FEC) set for the scene, the flash will fire based off of several things like aperture and focal length of the lens. Shutter speed has not a lot to do with flash photography unless you start talking about sync speeds.
> 
> So if you were to expose properly via the in camera meter and use the flash, you'd get a photo with everything exposed correctly and then a correct exposure from the flash as well.



Awesome! Thanks for not beating me over the head! Some forums I have used in the past - they would rip me apart and tell me to just give up. I love this forum!!!!!

One more......does this work the same with studio strobes?


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## Village Idiot (Jul 2, 2008)

mamarazzi_hrd said:


> Awesome! Thanks for not beating me over the head! Some forums I have used in the past - they would rip me apart and tell me to just give up. I love this forum!!!!!
> 
> One more......does this work the same with studio strobes?


 
Essentially, but studio strobes are 100% manual, so you have to set the power then set your camera settings. The aperture setting is what controls how much your exposure varies in your photos, after you have your power on your strobes set.

You can always get a light meter and it will fire your strobes and tell you that the exposure is f/5.6, f/9, etc... or you can just shoot and change your settings until you get it, or you could just learn what powers generally require what f stops at what distances.


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## Senor Hound (Jul 3, 2008)

If someone wanted to learn about studio portraiture and didn't want to invest a lot into it until they figured out if they liked it, what sort of lighting/backdrops would you recommend they get to  "fool around" with?

I've seen lighting packages go for a few hundred, but I see power packs for a few GRAND.  Are they necessary?  Do you want to get continuous light or flashes?  And is a studio flash (like the ones you can put softboxes and umbrellas on) the same thing as a strobe?

I don't know anything about this stuff, so maybe a link would do me better until my questions are more specific.


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## andrew99 (Jul 3, 2008)

Senor Hound said:


> If someone wanted to learn about studio portraiture and didn't want to invest a lot into it until they figured out if they liked it, what sort of lighting/backdrops would you recommend they get to  "fool around" with?
> 
> I've seen lighting packages go for a few hundred, but I see power packs for a few GRAND.  Are they necessary?  Do you want to get continuous light or flashes?  And is a studio flash (like the ones you can put softboxes and umbrellas on) the same thing as a strobe?
> 
> I don't know anything about this stuff, so maybe a link would do me better until my questions are more specific.




You can get started quite cheaply with small flashes (Vivitar 285HV, less than $100 each), some light stands and umbrellas.  There are several ways to trigger the flashes, either with cables, RF or optical slaves.  

Go here:  http://strobist.blogspot.com/      Click on Lighting 101 and read all that, it's a great resource.


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## Lamha (Jul 3, 2008)

I am still a beginner and I have just bought 2 soft boxes. I wanted to know how I can adjust the lighting in my home studio. Do I need to buy Flash meter or I just keep playing with the soft boxes until I get a good result. How close do I place the soft box to the object?

many thanks


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## Village Idiot (Jul 3, 2008)

Senor Hound said:


> If someone wanted to learn about studio portraiture and didn't want to invest a lot into it until they figured out if they liked it, what sort of lighting/backdrops would you recommend they get to "fool around" with?
> 
> I've seen lighting packages go for a few hundred, but I see power packs for a few GRAND. Are they necessary? Do you want to get continuous light or flashes? And is a studio flash (like the ones you can put softboxes and umbrellas on) the same thing as a strobe?
> 
> I don't know anything about this stuff, so maybe a link would do me better until my questions are more specific.


 
the b&h link up top is the best place to shop.

2x Sunpak 383 = $160
2x Impace Light stand = $40
2x Westcott White shoot through umbrella = $40
2x Impact Umbrella adapters = $30

$270

You'll need triggers. www.gadgetinfinity.com sells the Cactus V2S. One transmitter and two receivers will run about $40

Home Depot/Lowes/Wal Mart will have the backdrop. You can make a stand out of pvp. Buy some spring clamps. Then buy some material and clamp it to the backdrop. $30?

All that I listed is about $310. That's cheap seeing as how I've spent over $1800 in lighting and I'm planning on buying more.



Lamha said:


> I am still a beginner and I have just bought 2 soft boxes. I wanted to know how I can adjust the lighting in my home studio. Do I need to buy Flash meter or I just keep playing with the soft boxes until I get a good result. How close do I place the soft box to the object?
> 
> many thanks


 
What lights are you using? Also, the closer the soft box is to a person, the smaller the light source will be. Shadows will be harsher. Move it away and the light source will be larger and softer. Placement is all personal preference. Check out www.strobist.com or a book called "Light Science and Magic".


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## andrew99 (Jul 3, 2008)

Village Idiot said:


> Also, the closer the soft box is to a person, the smaller the light source will be. Shadows will be harsher. Move it away and the light source will be larger and softer. Placement is all personal preference. Check out www.strobist.com or a book called "Light Science and Magic".


I believe you have this backwards.  The closer the lightsource, the larger it is relative to the subject, and therefor softer.


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## Lamha (Jul 4, 2008)

Thanks Village Idiot & Andrew 99


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## KD5NRH (Jul 4, 2008)

rubbertree said:


> My DH made me a soft box about 3feet square. I used draped white fabric off the top, sides and bottom. Attached 2 clamp lights to either side with 40 watt regular light bulbs. Pictures still don't look the way I want them to.
> Do I need higher wattage? A specific light bulb?



By regular, you're most likely referring to Soft White.  I use a pair of 100W equivalent Daylight compact fluorescents.  They're about $7.50 a pair, and the difference is really noticeable, both in light quality and in the amount of heat coming from the lights; 100W incandescents used this way will eventually start to scorch the box unless special fabrics are used, and will certainly add strain to the air conditioner.




> Do I set my white balance on auto or must it be set to the type of light bulb used?



Look up the custom white balance setting for your camera, and set it for the box interior.  This will usually involve taking a full-frame shot of a white card where your subject will be.


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## Village Idiot (Jul 8, 2010)

Awe yeah!


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## Raizels (Jul 9, 2010)

OK, my question: (someone tried to answer it before, but I feel I need more info)

How do I take pictures of flowers on sunlight without overexposing parts of it?
Or: how do I take pictures of flowers in direct sunlight without making it look flat?

and... define "flat"?


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## Village Idiot (Jul 9, 2010)

Raizels said:


> OK, my question: (someone tried to answer it before, but I feel I need more info)
> 
> How do I take pictures of flowers on sunlight without overexposing parts of it?
> Or: how do I take pictures of flowers in direct sunlight without making it look flat?
> ...


 
The problem you're having here is that direct sunlight is harsh. It's a small light source, like a bare flash head with a reflector (any general speed light with no modifier basically), and small light sources produce hard light.

Hard light is light that is focused and creates defined, hard edged shadows.

When you have an object that has texture, hard light is going to cause portions that aren't directly facing that light source to quickly be covered in shadows, having only smaller portions of that object exposed to the main light with others underexposed in the shadows.

To take photos of flowers in direct sunlight, you would need a fill flash, reflector, or some other light source to help illuminate the rest of the flower to be closer to the correct exposure of the parts of the flowers that are in direct sun light.

That's if you're shooting when it's sunny and cloudless.

Flat = a very even exposure lacking contrast.

A dynamincally lit exposure:






A flat exposure:





The first photo has a lot of contrast between the shadows and the highlight where the second photo is pretty much evenly lit all the way across the board with the only variances coming from the light from the sun and the shadows across the back wall.

When it's cloudly outside, the clouds act like a giant softbox. They turn the sun from a small light source into a huge light source. The light from the sun hits the clouds and reflects bouncing around on everything and creating very soft, vague shadows.

If you're photographing flowers in these conditions, they're most likely going to be evenly lit without and big contrast variations creating a flat exposure. To combat this, you can do editing in PhotoShop or create your own dynamic light. A reflector would be less effective in this scenario, so using a flash as the key (or main) light and underexposing the the ambient by a stop or three would create a dynamic lighting setup. With a setup like this, you're going to want to use a modifier like an umbrella, that diffuses the light giving it a nice soft shadow, so you're not getting the hard edges.

And remember this, the smaller the light source, the harder the light and shadows it creates. So as you increase the size of the light source, you make the light softer and the shadows softer.


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## jake337 (Jul 30, 2010)

ok i read every page of this thread so far and great info and links to point someone wanting to learn in the right direction.

now onto my question on home lighting. What are some of the brands/bulbs you would use in home lighting. I don't want to set up a studio or anything, just get the best out of the light fixtures and lamps already in our home. I mostly looking for any specific brand that is truly full spectrum and brighter so there is less of a need for flash indoors and still be able to use higher shutter speeds (not crazy high, but a 7 month old is never still enough. would building a few DIY softboxes on lamps be an idea.


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## gsgary (Jul 30, 2010)

Rachelsne said:


> if I am using a reflector (which i have never done yet) how do I know where to place it?



You will be able to see where the light is reflecting if you can't you have the reflector in the wrong place and the camera will not see it, you use the reflector to add a bit of light to the shadows


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## gsgary (Jul 30, 2010)

andrew99 said:


> Village Idiot said:
> 
> 
> > Also, the closer the soft box is to a person, the smaller the light source will be. Shadows will be harsher. Move it away and the light source will be larger and softer. Placement is all personal preference. Check out www.strobist.com or a book called "Light Science and Magic".
> ...



You are correct, the nearer the softbox the softer the light move it away and it gets harder


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## adikrist (Jul 31, 2010)

Hi, i'm totally newbie.. The topics in this thread are too complex for me, but i have simple question which related to lighting.. 

When taking photo of a person with background at nighttime, how can i create a nice photo? I personally don't like using flash as it makes the person's face somehow shinny and the background darker, but i guess one has to do this when taking pic at night. Any trick to make person's face not too shinny and at the same time the background still look nice? Will it help with longer shutter ( without flash )?

Thanks.


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## tirediron (Jul 31, 2010)

You need to get the flash off of the camera and use a modifier (diffuser, soft-box, umbrella) to soften the light.  Shooting without the flash may work, but it may also require longer shutter times than you can comfortably hand-hold and/or longer than the subject can sit still.


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## sovietdoc (Jul 31, 2010)

I hate the built-in flash. because you can't control the power output it's very hard to get suitable color..


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## Raizels (Aug 1, 2010)

Village Idiot said:


> Raizels said:
> 
> 
> > OK, my question: (someone tried to answer it before, but I feel I need more info)
> ...



Thank you so much for taking the time to answer this - I only notioced it today  sorry.

I never thought o the sun as a small light source, that's something I need to absorb.
Basically, I guess you're saying that I need to find the balance between underexposed images and flat images.

Thanks again.


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## Village Idiot (Aug 2, 2010)

jake337 said:


> ok i read every page of this thread so far and great info and links to point someone wanting to learn in the right direction.
> 
> now onto my question on home lighting. What are some of the brands/bulbs you would use in home lighting. I don't want to set up a studio or anything, just get the best out of the light fixtures and lamps already in our home. I mostly looking for any specific brand that is truly full spectrum and brighter so there is less of a need for flash indoors and still be able to use higher shutter speeds (not crazy high, but a 7 month old is never still enough. would building a few DIY softboxes on lamps be an idea.


 
This is tricky, because there can be color temperture variances between bulbs of the same brand. I'd buy the brightest bulbs you can afford. Also, making hot light softboxes could prove to be a fire hazard as the bulbs can get really hot.


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## Village Idiot (Aug 2, 2010)

adikrist said:


> Hi, i'm totally newbie.. The topics in this thread are too complex for me, but i have simple question which related to lighting..
> 
> When taking photo of a person with background at nighttime, how can i create a nice photo? I personally don't like using flash as it makes the person's face somehow shinny and the background darker, but i guess one has to do this when taking pic at night. Any trick to make person's face not too shinny and at the same time the background still look nice? Will it help with longer shutter ( without flash )?
> 
> Thanks.


 
As tirediron posted, you need to stronger off camera light source with a modifier. A modifier like an umbrella would create a large light source which would create a soft light that should generally not cause blown out high lights on a person's face.

Also, the problem with the black back ground you're describing is due to light fall off from the under powered onboard flash. 

This is due to the inverse square law:


			
				Wikipedia said:
			
		

> so an object (of the same size) twice as far away, receives only one-quarter the energy (in the same time period).


 
I'm not sure how to describe this as simply as possible, but think of it this way. The farther your flash is from a subject, the more distance you can have between them and the background for an evenly exposed photo. The closer your flash is to your properly exposed subject, the more light fall off you'll have behind them and the bigger the exposure difference will be. 

Zack Arias has the best explanation, I've personally seen, for this on his lighting DVD, but here's a decent chart from a portion of his site:
zarias.com :: The blog of editorial photographer Zack Arias  White Seamless Tutorial :: Part 3 :: From White To Black.

As you can see below, there's a difference in the exposure between the subject and the background, but you can still see the background and details in it. That's because when I was shooting, my light source was off camera and pulled back so that I wouldn't have had a lot of light fall off. If I would have moved it up and exposed my subject, he would have been lit correctly and the background would have been darker.





Sorry, it's Monday morning, my brain doesn't start functioning until Sunday evening. :mrgreen:



Raizels said:


> Village Idiot said:
> 
> 
> > Raizels said:
> ...


 
Dynamic lighting is created by contrast. Just think of how you can position your light to create the contrast you want for a photo.

I believe I've probably answered a question in this thread with this already, but think of light as a visible object. Not in the sense as we see light now where it reflects off an object and we see it, but as the rays of light as something you can see. Visualize how these are emitting from your light source, being altered by any modifiers, and striking your subject. Remember they get weaker as they travel away from their light source. 

Trying to visualize the light will help you see how your subject will be lit before you actually take the photo.


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## Raizels (Aug 3, 2010)

Very interesting concept - light is an object I can visualize. Will take tons of practice. Thanks!


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## Corvphotography (Aug 7, 2010)

so if i buy a speed light flash and i buy a radio trigger, could i have a buddy hold the speed light flash a few feet away while i shoot the model and the flash will go off at the same time? is that how it works?


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## Village Idiot (Aug 9, 2010)

Corvphotography said:


> so if i buy a speed light flash and i buy a radio trigger, could i have a buddy hold the speed light flash a few feet away while i shoot the model and the flash will go off at the same time? is that how it works?


 
Yes. 

But there are easier ways that having to depend on a person to hold the flash for you.

You can buy a cheap light stand for $20-$30, and an umbrella adapter with cold shoe for $15-$20.

And you have to look at unmodified light vs. modified light.


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## edouble (Aug 9, 2010)

I am jumping in on this thread!

I just bought two sb800's, a pair of Flashpoint 9' stands with two clamps, two Westcott convertible umbrellas and a Cactus v4 transmitter with two v4 receivers. 

I will be shooting the flashes in full manual. My d5000 does not have a flash commander. 

I love high contrast images. What should I photograph to practice with my new setup? My finance gets bored after 30 seconds LOL.


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## Village Idiot (Aug 31, 2010)

edouble said:


> I am jumping in on this thread!
> 
> I just bought two sb800's, a pair of Flashpoint 9' stands with two clamps, two Westcott convertible umbrellas and a Cactus v4 transmitter with two v4 receivers.
> 
> ...


 
Goats!


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## edouble (Aug 31, 2010)

Lol I have been practicing and will post up in another thread.


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## tirediron (Aug 31, 2010)

Village Idiot said:


> edouble said:
> 
> 
> > I am jumping in on this thread!
> ...


 
Llamas; just as smelly, but with cuter faces!


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## edouble (Aug 31, 2010)

Lol I have been practicing and will post up in another thread.


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## Sonoma (Aug 31, 2010)

So!  I am new to the flash thing too, and have a couple of questions.
These may have been covered, but I just want to make sure I understand completely.

I just recently purchased this flash....http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/600862-REG/Vivitar_DF_383_CAN_DF_383_Series_1.htmlhttp://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/600866-REG/Vivitar_DF_383_OLY_DF_383_Series_1.html.....for my Canon EOS Rebel.  I did indeed purchase the one for Canon!  Thanks

1.)  Is it true that the "Flash Compensation" adjustment built into the camera will also affect the output of an E-TTL flash in the hotshoe?

2.)  When bouncing the flash does the material you're bouncing off of have to be a lighter color, like white?  What happens if the walls are paneled in a darker color?

3.)  The flash I purchased has a "zoom head"; if I use a lens longer that 80mm will this cause any problems?

Thanks for the help!
Gary


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## tirediron (Aug 31, 2010)

Why did you buy an Olympus TTL flash for a Canon, or is that just a linking error?

1.  If it's fully TTL compatible, than yes, it will.

2.  It doesn't have to be, but you will get a greater effect if it is.  Darker/coloured surfaces can also impart their colour into the image (Eg if you bounce off of a red ceiling, the image may take on a slightly rosey hue).

3.  You may notice greater light fall off around the edges if you shoot with a lens longer than the flash's zoom ability.


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## Sonoma (Aug 31, 2010)

Thanks Tirediron!

I did purchase the flash for the Canon, just linked to the wrong one.

My name is Gary, and I am not smarter than a fifth grader!!!


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## Village Idiot (Aug 31, 2010)

Sonoma said:


> Thanks Tirediron!
> 
> I did purchase the flash for the Canon, just linked to the wrong one.
> 
> My name is Gary, and I am not smarter than a fifth grader!!!


 
For number 3, it really depends on how far away the subject is If you're shooting with an 80mm lens and the subject is 6' away for a face shot, you won't necessarily need the flash zoomed that much. If you're using an 80mm lens and shooting some one 18' away for a full body shot, then the zoom may be needed.


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## linny-7 (Oct 12, 2010)

Disclaimer: I am as GREEN as noobs come, so please excuse my ignorance! 

I am taking some pics of my friends newborns on Sunday, not for any reason other then they are CUTE and I want to play with my camera, but I would still like to get some cool shots! 

I've been googling 'newborn photography' images and am wondering how I can get some great effects without using my flash too much! Are there DIY lighting solutions, like a strategically placed desk lamp, or other cheap lighting options that won't startle the little ones?


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## Village Idiot (Oct 13, 2010)

linny-7 said:


> Disclaimer: I am as GREEN as noobs come, so please excuse my ignorance!
> 
> I am taking some pics of my friends newborns on Sunday, not for any reason other then they are CUTE and I want to play with my camera, but I would still like to get some cool shots!
> 
> I've been googling 'newborn photography' images and am wondering how I can get some great effects without using my flash too much! Are there DIY lighting solutions, like a strategically placed desk lamp, or other cheap lighting options that won't startle the little ones?


 
Windows lighting! Use the sun from a window and try that out.


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## linny-7 (Oct 13, 2010)

Village Idiot said:


> linny-7 said:
> 
> 
> > Disclaimer: I am as GREEN as noobs come, so please excuse my ignorance!
> ...


 
There lies the problem :meh: She lives in an old farmhouse which is pretty dark, and its cold and overcast here (oh how I miss the sun!) so don't want to take the bubs outside for better light. I have been playing around with makeshift diffusers on my flash, but no luck so far! I will cross my fingers for Sun on Sunday! Thanks!


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## Village Idiot (Oct 13, 2010)

linny-7 said:


> Village Idiot said:
> 
> 
> > linny-7 said:
> ...



Is it the pop up flash or a speed light type of flash?


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## girl_with_brain (Oct 13, 2010)

can a DIY home depot jerry rigged lighting set up work just as well as other systems like Cowboy Studio? 

I have no idea what kind of lighting I need to get to do product photography. Where do I start with a basic set up?

What kind of lighting will I need for shooting something like a wedding with oober low lights? I will be shooting my SIL's wedding at a planetarium.


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## linny-7 (Oct 13, 2010)

Village Idiot said:


> linny-7 said:
> 
> 
> > Village Idiot said:
> ...


 
Just the pop up. 

I am not opposed to buying another flash (more money then sense sometimes!) but I am trying to avoid any more uninformed impulse buys that I will not use!


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## Village Idiot (Oct 13, 2010)

linny-7 said:


> Village Idiot said:
> 
> 
> > linny-7 said:
> ...



What camera do you own? A ttl enabled first party flash can really help you out by bouncing it off the ceiling to get a nice even exposure. I can post some photos and such tomorrow. Typing the from the iPad right now, so it's kind of a pain to do really long explanations.


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## Village Idiot (Oct 13, 2010)

girl_with_brain said:


> can a DIY home depot jerry rigged lighting set up work just as well as other systems like Cowboy Studio?
> 
> I have no idea what kind of lighting I need to get to do product photography. Where do I start with a basic set up?
> 
> What kind of lighting will I need for shooting something like a wedding with oober low lights? I will be shooting my SIL's wedding at a planetarium.



It can, but you'll have to worry about color balance and heat. Usually you can used a bounced flash on the camera for decent results at an event. Wedding photographers generally seem to depend on cameras with good high iso performance and fast lenses. 

What type of product photography are you planning. Shooting small items will be different than say, shooting much larger items.


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## linny-7 (Oct 13, 2010)

Village Idiot said:


> linny-7 said:
> 
> 
> > Village Idiot said:
> ...


 
A Nikon D3000. That would be great! Thanks heaps!


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## Village Idiot (Oct 14, 2010)

linny-7 said:


> Village Idiot said:
> 
> 
> > linny-7 said:
> ...


 
This is as good of an example you're going to get from me. This was one flash bounced off the ceiling, but with a remote trigger, so it's not on camera.

You can tell it was placed to the right of where I'm shooting as the faint shadows move to the left.

Bouncing a flash from the ceiling make the ceiling the light source and the larger the light source, the softer the light. A flash on camer will reduce shadows and the ones that show will be soft. The down side, is that the shadows will be pointing down, so if you're shooting straight on, a person may have slight shadows under their eyes. This can be countered by a reflector of by bouncing the flash from another light source, like a wall.


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## mzgloves20 (Oct 15, 2010)

medic001918 said:


> Dao said:
> 
> 
> > Village Idiot, Big Mike ...
> ...


 

Agreed, nice to be able to ask questions w/o a holier than thou answer...

Good job guys! :thumbup:


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## Greasy (Oct 16, 2010)

I'm trying to figure out if it is worth buying a flash... maybe you guys can help me!

I'm moving [back] to the Middle East. I don't like looking like a photographer, I think it makes people slightly uneasy (photographing people is a no-no in conservative Muslim societies). I am worried that adding a flash to my T1i will hurt my cause a little bit. 

I do most of my photography while traveling/wandering around. I don't really go out for the sole purpose of getting great pictures. I would say that 90% of the pictures I take are city/market scenes, with some landscape and very little macro (if any). A lot of it is done very discretely/quickly. Another thing to note is that I won't have a tripod 90% of the time, if that makes any difference.

Would a flash make a significant difference in my pictures?

If so, do you have any recommendations? Keep in mind that I'm a poor recent graduate who will be working for peanuts!


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