# What chemicals do you use?



## eric-holmes (Nov 30, 2011)

Now, please understand I know nothing about chemicals. I have a hard time with my 35mm film curling and I had heard that if you use a fixer without hardener that the film will be more pliable and less likely to curl. True? 

Here is what I currently use. Feel free to educate me.

Fixer
Kodak Fixer for Black & White Film & Paper 1971746 B&H

Stop Bath
illford stop bath

Developer
Kodak D-76 Developer 1464817 B&H Photo Video


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## ann (Nov 30, 2011)

modern day films don't need a fixer with a hardner ( with the exception of one )and no that is not true.

Put a weight of some kind on the bottom of the film while drying and that should help with the curl.


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## eric-holmes (Nov 30, 2011)

Yeah, I put a weight on it until it dries. I also put them in heavy books. No dice.


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## compur (Nov 30, 2011)

You put 35mm film in a book to dry?

The way you dry 35mm film is you _hang it up_ at one end with a weight at the bottom end until it is dry.  Never have anything touching the film while it is wet.


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## Josh66 (Nov 30, 2011)

ann said:


> ( with the exception of one )



Which is that?  (Just want to make sure there's not some other one I don't know about.)

I shoot a lot of Efke, and I've always heard that it needed a hardener - so I've always used Kodafix.
Kodak Kodafix to Make 1 Gallon | Freestyle Photographic Supplies

For stop bath I use Kodak Indicator Stop Bath (but not with Efke - just water for Efke):
Kodak Indicator Stop Bath 16 oz. | Freestyle Photographic Supplies

For developers I mostly use HC-110 and Rodinal.  (Both are easy to use and have a shelf life measured in years.)

After I wash, I soak in Photo Flo (mixed with distilled water) for two minutes, then hang to dry.
Kodak Photo Flo 200 16 oz. | Freestyle Photographic Supplies

I never have water spots using that.  Just make sure you use distilled water.

After it's dry, I cut it up and put it in negative sleeves.  If it's curled, I put the sheet under some heavy books for a day or two.  Sometimes a week for really badly curled film, lol.

Some films just seem to always dry flat, and some seem to always curl.

I've heard that it curls because the edges dry faster than the middle.  Some say running a hot shower just before hanging to dry (to get the humidity up - also to get rid of dust) works, but I haven't found it to be effective.


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## Josh66 (Nov 30, 2011)

Another thing I do, which kind of seems to help with curl (hard to tell how much difference it really makes), is that right after I hang it up I pull the bottom out so it's at a 45 degree angle and most of the water will run right down the edge.

Hard to tell how much it helps with curl, but it does cut about 10 minutes off drying.


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## eric-holmes (Nov 30, 2011)

compur said:


> You put 35mm film in a book to dry?The way you dry 35mm film is you _hang it up_ at one end with a weight at the bottom end until it is dry.  Never have anything touching the film while it is wet.


Of course not. I put it in a book after its dry.


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## compur (Nov 30, 2011)

OK, is the film curling end to end or are the sides of the film curling inward?


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## Josh66 (Nov 30, 2011)

compur said:


> OK, is the film curling end to end or are the sides of the film curling inward?


Not trying to hi-jack Eric's thread or anything - but what causes ene-to-end curl?  (Just did a roll of Efke R25 (120) today, and it had some pretty serious end-to-end curl...)

Pretty sure the edge-to-edge curl is from the edges drying faster, but the end-to-end curl just seems to be the nature of some films...  As far as I can tell anyway...


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## eric-holmes (Nov 30, 2011)

Side to side. Like if you were to roll it like a cigarette. I think I may just end up buying some ANR glass and using that to help hold it down. But not to detract from the main topic, I just wanted to know about different chemistries. I see that some developers produce sharper images but more grain. There is a lot to learn.


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## ann (Dec 1, 2011)

Efke is the one I couldn't remember . the film base of that specific film is very thin which enhances the opportunity for all that curl.

Negatives will have a side to side curve to them, but usually when placed in a negative carrier in the proper  manner that is not a problem.  Using glass carriers certainly will help element that issue, but that creates other issues, (or can)

ANd yes different developers create a different look; sharpness, grain pattern, loss of speed. etc. Photography is a life time of learning.


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## KenC (Dec 1, 2011)

The curl decreases a little in time after storing the dry film in plastic sleeves in a book.


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## unpopular (Dec 2, 2011)

When I was shooting film I used Ilford FP4 developed in a variety of cocktales before settling on first developing in slightly dilute Microdol-x and finished in Rodinal, 1:50. I used whatever fix and stop I had around and always used Kodak Photoflo at the end.

Splitting development like this allows for the sparsely-grained highlights to appear smoother under fine-grain, low accutence developers while the blotchy, large grained shadows to appear sharper under a high accutence developer like Rodinal.

Modern Microdol-X
http://www.freestylephoto.biz/749710-LegacyPro-Mic-X-Film-Developer-to-Make-1-Gallon

Modern Rodinal
http://www.freestylephoto.biz/9724-Compard-R09-One-Shot-Film-Developer-125ml-4-oz.


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## c.cloudwalker (Dec 2, 2011)

Not sure it would be legal to talk about.


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## cosmonaut (Jan 19, 2012)

When you dry it make sure you clip clothes pins at the bottom, it helps stop curl long ways and across. I know you don't think it will help but I had the same problem. Plus some films, cheap, curl more than others.


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## bhop (Jan 19, 2012)

I put weight on the bottom (clothespins as cosmonaut suggested) From my experiences, it's the brand of film that curls (side to side) and there's really nothing that you can do about it during the drying process.  Ilford dries completely flat.  Fuji dries mostly flat, and Kodak is almost always curling for me.  The only way i'm able to get it flat is to squash it under something heavy for a few days.  I don't like waiting a few days to scan, so I use some scanning glass from betterscanning. com on top of my film to squash it while scanning.  I still have to put weight on top of the ends of those to get a flat scan with Kodak films.  It's annoying, but it works.

As far as the chemicals I use:
B&W
Clayton F76 developer
Arista for everything else

Color
Unicolor powder kit for c41


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## Josh66 (Jan 19, 2012)

I think the side-to-side curl has more to do with the humidity while it's drying than anything else.

I've had the same films dry flat or dry curled before.  If you check on it every few minutes, usually you can see it curl as it dries, then flatten as it dries completely.  You can see a 'wave' go down the film, and when it's completely dry, it's flat.  Sometimes it seems like it never gets to that completely flat stage though.
End-to-end curl seems to just because of the film...
The side-to-side curl goes away after a few days to a week under some heavy books.  End-to-end curl seems to last forever though.    Efke curls BADLY (end-to-end) in 120, but usually dries perfectly flat in 35mm in my experience.


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## bhop (Jan 20, 2012)

I know what you mean about the curl then flatten while drying, but as far as the humidity affecting the curl, I dunno.. for me Kodak curls 100% of the time, while the others don't, no matter the time of year or weather.


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## Josh66 (Jan 20, 2012)

It might not be the humidity, specifically - but I think it's _something_ other than the film itself.

I've had the same films dry flat, or curl on me.  I haven't really paid attention to what was different each time though...


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## maris (Jan 20, 2012)

Here's an experiment I did with very curly Fomapan 200: 

The negatives were a write-off so I soaked the film in a dilute solution of sodium hydroxide. This removes all the silver and emulsion, all the subbing layer, everything, and left only the film base. The film base was still as curly as before! All the curl was in the film base which had taken a _set_ since it was rolled up tight at the factory. None of the developing, fixing, and washing stratagies made any difference because they did not address the cause of the curl. After 6 months in a plastic neg file under a heavy book the film base lies nearly flat. It had merely changed its _set_ from bent to flat.


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## dxqcanada (Jan 20, 2012)

I never had a problem with 35mm roll film.
120, because of the width, does tend to roll more during drying.
Kodak HIE 120 was very thin and would almost form a tube half way during the drying ... then it would slowly uncurl itself.

Once dry, I put them into sleeves ... and that flattens them.


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## slackercruster (Feb 1, 2012)

compur said:


> You put 35mm film in a book to dry?
> 
> The way you dry 35mm film is you _hang it up_ at one end with a weight at the bottom end until it is dry. Never have anything touching the film while it is wet.



Wetting agent for drying helps with spots.


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## slackercruster (Feb 1, 2012)

Back in the day...I used to use Dektol for prints and D-76 for film. Extrachome E-4 and Agfa color with nitrogen burst. Tried dye transfer but it was too tough. 

Now I only shoot digital and use inkjet printers.


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