# Sony RANT!!!



## sscarmack (Jun 12, 2014)

Warning! Little long!

Just need to rant and vent real quick!

So I've invested a crap ton of time and money into my photography (as we all have). I have a Nikon D4 which I absolutely love, but here comes my rant!

You need a stupid stinking flipping flopping XQD Card. 

I've invested all this money into multipleeeeeeeeee CF cards and have dozens, and now I can't use two at the same time but I am forced into buying a new card that cost an arm and a leg.


I know I know, I shouldn't of gotten the D4 if I didn't want to deal with this. I know. Its not that big of a deal, but its still annoying.



Anyways, I broke down and finally ordered a Sony XQD S Series 32gb card. If you know anything about this, you'd know its roughly a $200 card! Holy poop!


After months of shooting with this card, never had one problem until right in the middle of a softball shoot I get a Memory Card Error flashing on my D4. (Wonderful right).

So I quickly panicked to myself thinking what am I going to do. So I quickly troubleshoot my camera, turned it off, popped the card slot, took the card out, put it back in. Boom, everything is back to normal, no harm.

Awesome! So I finished the shoot and got home unloaded all the photos, nothing was corrupted.

I did everything I could to replicate the error, nothing.

Two days later I had another softball team shoot. Wouldn't you know it right before I did the team photo, "Memory Card Error". Quickly troubleshooted again.

Now I'm livid. Thinking to myself one of these days I'm going to lose all my photos or something.

So I call B&H up, since thats where I got the card from. They said that there is a 5year warranty on my card but I need to deal with Sony direct, fine not a problem.

So after being transferred 3 times, and explaining my situation three times to people who I can barely understand. 

Sony requires you to send the card back to them on YOUR dime, and they said it takes anywhere from 3 to 8 weeks.

I tried being nice to the lady and explaining the situation where I have two weddings coming up next week and can't limit myself to one card and she said her hands were tied and there is nothing she can do.

Now I'm getting pissed. 

I spent $200 on a card.

I'm being treated like its my fault its saying error. 

The guy on the phone didn't even know what a Nikon D4 was and I had to keep explaining to him what kind of camera I had.

They tried feeding me some bull**** line that its because I'm not using a Sony camera and its a compatibility issue.

I demanded to talk to the supervisor and she refused to transfer me and kept repeating herself and avoiding the subject.

I finally get someone who is supposedly 'in charge' and they couldn't send me a new card first until I send the old one back and they have to "test it" to prove its not my fault the card is acting up and if so they would have to charge me for a new card.

I then demanded to speak to his boss, and he fed me some bogus line of his boss does't take phone calls, doesn't have an email address, and only has a first name. So there was zero way I can contact anyone with "real authority".


Why am I so mad?
I didn't go to some Joe Blow store and buy a $10 sd card. These XQD and sony are suppose to be the latest and greatest in the tech industry.

Any other company I deal with sends a replacement and a return label and you send back the damage.

Example.
I have a macbook pro. I had my power plug go bad on me. Not a problem under warranty. They sent me a brand new one, free of charge and a return label. All I had to do was send back my old one and if they found out it wasn't 'damaged' I would be charge. Not a problem.


Why won't I just send them my old card so they'll replace it?

Its the principal behind customer service. The customer is always right even if they are wrong. You don't tell the customer its their fault the card doesn't work. You don't refuse to get your manager. You don't make your customer pay for shipping when its a faulty product.

I will never buy another Sony card again.

I called BH back and explained what happened and they laughed at my story (I wasn't mad anymore, I was joking with the guy). And the guy said there was nothing he could do but highly recommended another card company in the future because he hears a lot of bad complaints about Sony.


Sorry for venting. If your still with me, thanks for sticking around. Am I over reacting or should I expect better service for a $200 memory card?


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## runnah (Jun 12, 2014)

Ugh I feel your pain. Proprietary formats should be made illegal if you ask me. I could show you my drawer at work that is filled with single use cables, cards and adapters. One of my biggest pet peeves.

I understand the point if that format, at the time it was the fastest format.


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## robbins.photo (Jun 12, 2014)

Funny thing is, I'm not even sure Sony makes a camera that handles XQD - I know the D4 will, and I think Olympus has one that will as well - but the only one I know of that Sony makes that supports it is like a monster high end digital video camera that costs like 5 or 6 grand.  As far as still cameras I don't think any of the Sony's support XQD - Even their A99 - pretty much Sony's top of the line full frame doesn't support XQD as I recall.


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## runnah (Jun 12, 2014)

robbins.photo said:


> Funny thing is, I'm not even sure Sony makes a camera that handles XQD - I know the D4 will, and I think Olympus has one that will as well - but the only one I know of that Sony makes that supports it is like a monster high end digital video camera that costs like 5 or 6 grand.  As far as still cameras I don't think any of the Sony's support XQD - Even their A99 - pretty much Sony's top of the line full frame doesn't support XQD as I recall.



It's more for video cams. Most of their new 4k handicams take that format.

Sony is great at coming out with proprietary formats that are soon eclipsed by other cheaper formats. Beta, minidiscs and some other oddball stopgaps.

Odds are is you will start seeing dslrs with onboard storage.


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## robbins.photo (Jun 12, 2014)

runnah said:


> robbins.photo said:
> 
> 
> > Funny thing is, I'm not even sure Sony makes a camera that handles XQD - I know the D4 will, and I think Olympus has one that will as well - but the only one I know of that Sony makes that supports it is like a monster high end digital video camera that costs like 5 or 6 grand. As far as still cameras I don't think any of the Sony's support XQD - Even their A99 - pretty much Sony's top of the line full frame doesn't support XQD as I recall.
> ...



I just thought it was funny that the Sony rep recommended that he buy a sony camera for it - but sony really doesn't make a camera for it.  It's one of those irony things that I get hung up on now and again.


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## runnah (Jun 12, 2014)

robbins.photo said:


> I just thought it was funny that the Sony rep recommended that he buy a sony camera for it - but sony really doesn't make a camera for it.  It's one of those irony things that I get hung up on now and again.



Well he probably was talking about a video camera.


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## tirediron (Jun 12, 2014)

This is exactly why I haven't bought a D4; a $6500 body with (IMO) unproven memory card technology?  Especially Sony unproven memory card technology?  No.  Thank.  You.  I'm sure some here remember the joy that was (is) the Sony Memory Stick?  Yeahhhh....


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## runnah (Jun 12, 2014)

tirediron said:


> This is exactly why I haven't bought a D4; a $6500 body with (IMO) unproven memory card technology?  Especially Sony unproven memory card technology?  No.  Thank.  You.  I'm sure some here remember the joy that was (is) the Sony Memory Stick?  Yeahhhh....



Lol yeah, I don't understand sony sometimes.

But they do have lots of winners. Bluray, Walkmans, play station and CDs spring to mind.


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## tirediron (Jun 12, 2014)

runnah said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> > This is exactly why I haven't bought a D4; a $6500 body with (IMO) unproven memory card technology?  Especially Sony unproven memory card technology?  No.  Thank.  You.  I'm sure some here remember the joy that was (is) the Sony Memory Stick?  Yeahhhh....
> ...


Absolutely, they have some great products,  but the stinkers they've produced tend to eclipse their successes.  If they'd stop worrying about quite so proprietary....


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## table1349 (Jun 12, 2014)

Compact Flash Cards RULE!!!!!!  :mrgreen:


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## DiskoJoe (Jun 12, 2014)

Why do you only have one card?


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## runnah (Jun 12, 2014)

tirediron said:


> Absolutely, they have some great products,  but the stinkers they've produced tend to eclipse their successes.  If they'd stop worrying about quite so proprietary....



Don't even get me started on sony codecs...


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## table1349 (Jun 12, 2014)

runnah said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> > Absolutely, they have some great products,  but the stinkers they've produced tend to eclipse their successes.  If they'd stop worrying about quite so proprietary....
> ...


Ohhh...Sony codecs.......do tell.  What in the world could be wrong with Sony codecs???

Inquiring minds want to know?????


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## runnah (Jun 12, 2014)

gryphonslair99 said:


> Ohhh...Sony codecs.......do tell.  What in the world could be wrong with Sony codecs???  Inquiring minds want to know?????



Back in the early days, and still to an extent, every camera maker had their own codec. It was such a pain to get them all to place nice in editing and player software.

It's better now but boy did it suck to have a client drop off some random file from some random camera. Spent half the day just looking for codecs.


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## rexbobcat (Jun 12, 2014)

runnah said:


> Back in the early days, and still to an extent, every camera maker had their own codec. It was such a pain to get them all to place nice in editing and player software.  It's better now but boy did it suck to have a client drop off some random file from some random camera. Spent half the day just looking for codecs.



Editing Sony's proprietary codec taken off of their proprietary MemoryStick. Lol


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## manaheim (Jun 12, 2014)

When I was considering a D4 that stupid card thing was a real turnoff.

All that said, and as much as I HATE Sony, seems like your issues here have to do with a lot of vendors and manufacturers, and not Sony alone.  Plus, expecting you to pay to send the card back isn't unusual.  I didn't read all of your wall of text there, but did you ask about a cross-ship? Usually you can provide a credit card number and they'll ship you a new one immediately, and just charge you if you don't return the bad card.


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## pixmedic (Jun 12, 2014)

shouldn't be too big of a deal. 
I never worry *too* much about cards when im on a paid gig. 
If i get even the _*slightest *_hint that a card is acting funny, I just throw in another card and deal with it later. 
I certainly would _*not*_ go on any paid assignment with only one card. that's just asking for trouble.  Fo realz, yo.


on a side note....why the $^#% arent cameras coming with built in HD's like....oh, i dunno...._*every other *_device on the planet?


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## runnah (Jun 12, 2014)

pixmedic said:


> shouldn't be too big of a deal. I never worry too much about cards when im on a paid gig. If i get even the slightest hint that a card is acting funny, I just throw in another card and deal with it later. I certainly would not go on any paid assignment with only one card. that's just asking for trouble.  Fo realz, yo.  on a side note....why the $^#% arent cameras coming with built in HD's like....oh, i dunno....every other device on the planet?



I am betting that soon all dslr will have built in hard drives. I am shocked that they haven't made a battery grip style hard drive system. Might be the size or power requirements. But yeah, expect cameras with terabytes of storage in the future.


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## DiskoJoe (Jun 12, 2014)

gryphonslair99 said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> > tirediron said:
> ...



nothing as long as you have a PC or aperture if you run mac and arent a noob. I did work with a naive nikon shooter once that didnt realize that different cameras have different codecs and thought I gave her a flash drive that was empty cause her mac did not recognize the format. Never worked with her again.


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## sscarmack (Jun 12, 2014)

DiskoJoe said:


> Why do you only have one card?



Oh no, I have dozens of compact flash cards. Just only one XQD. Bc they are super expensive and in my opinion I think they will be obsolete here pretty quick. 

I just don't want to go to a wedding not using both card slots. My camera was deigned for two cards, I want two working cards, is that too much to ask for? Haha


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## sscarmack (Jun 12, 2014)

manaheim said:


> When I was considering a D4 that stupid card thing was a real turnoff.
> 
> All that said, and as much as I HATE Sony, seems like your issues here have to do with a lot of vendors and manufacturers, and not Sony alone.  Plus, expecting you to pay to send the card back isn't unusual.  I didn't read all of your wall of text there, but did you ask about a cross-ship? Usually you can provide a credit card number and they'll ship you a new one immediately, and just charge you if you don't return the bad card.



No they wouldn't do that. I explained to them I couldn't go without the card for 8 weeks and that they could send me a new one and hold my credit card info if I failed to return the old. And they refused and said it was against their policy. 


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## manaheim (Jun 12, 2014)

Yeah, well... there is also my default statement: Sony sucks.


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## sscarmack (Jun 12, 2014)

manaheim said:


> Yeah, well... there is also my default statement: Sony sucks.



I'm starting to see that. I'll never buy another sony product again. Boycott haha


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## manaheim (Jun 12, 2014)

Well, that's an awesome idea... except that you also bought a D4.  Is anyone else except Sony making those cards yet???


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## sscarmack (Jun 12, 2014)

manaheim said:


> Well, that's an awesome idea... except that you also bought a D4.  Is anyone else except Sony making those cards yet???



I think Lexar is making one. But I believe it's a few bucks more than the Sony. And I think that's it. No one else is. 


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## manaheim (Jun 12, 2014)

Oh well, if Lexar is, then you're in good shape.  They're reliable and will tend to produce things for quite a while.


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## sscarmack (Jun 12, 2014)

manaheim said:


> Oh well, if Lexar is, then you're in good shape.  They're reliable and will tend to produce things for quite a while.



Time to head to eBay with my Sony card, I'll have to specify it's only for SONY cameras otherwise you may get a error message hahahahhaha


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## Derrel (Jun 12, 2014)

Did you happen to switch capture formats while a buffer of images was writing to the card, such as switching from full-field to crop-mode? Or did you happen to accidentally turn the camera off in the middle of a write-to-card cycle? Bothy of those moves have caused me warning errors.

On the old D2x, I once shot the start of a 110 meter hurdles race in 2.0x high speed crop, then switched to full-field at the end...it "ate" the finish of the race because it was writing the images to the card, I guess. I was able to replicate the issue multiple times.

Wondering too: do you delete images IN THE FIELD??? In days gone by, that used to cause occasional problems with early Nikon d-slr cameras, and we all learned NEVER to delete images in the field, but to just fill a card, then download it to the computer and to do ALL, as in ALL deleting, at the computer, and never using the camera to delete from the card.

I would trust a Lexar card or a SanDisk brand card very much, but to me, some of the other card makers are sketchy.


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## Steve5D (Jun 12, 2014)

sscarmack said:


> The customer is always right even if they are wrong.



Sorry, but that's absolutely incorrect. The customer isn't always right.

Sometimes, the customer is dishonest. Sometimes the customer has used a product in such a manner which would void a warranty. Sometimes customers simply have unrealistic expectations. 

I'm not suggesting that any of these apply to you. I'm merely pointing out that customers are, in fact very often wrong. A company which simply accepts any and every claim made by a customer is destined to suffer losses...


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## Steve5D (Jun 12, 2014)

DiskoJoe said:


> Why do you only have one card?



An excellent question. Price be damned, you don't show up to a gig with just one memory card...


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## nzmacro (Jun 12, 2014)

Never mind Sony, you just put me off Nikon for the rest of my life !!! Thank goodness I shoot Sony cameras  

Danny.


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## bratkinson (Jun 13, 2014)

DiskoJoe said:


> Why do you only have one card?



One of the reasons paid photographers carry backups for everything is that things fail.  Putting 'all your eggs' in one basket is asking for trouble...and it happened.

Sony also has a history of getting 'greedy' and wanting the whole ball of wax.  Remember Beta format VCRs?  Sony invented the VHS format, decided it was not good enough quality, so sold the rights and everything else associated with VHS when they invented Beta format.  Definitely better quality images than VHS.  But then they wanted to charge a royalty to every company that would build Beta machines as well as tapes.  Needless to say, nobody took them up on it and Beta quietly died in the public domain a few years later.  When I finally replaced my Betamax recorder with VHS, the quality loss was quite noticeable.  My guess is the 'new regime' of bosses at Sony have forgotten that lesson, so they are doomed to repeat it with XQD cards.


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## IzzieK (Jun 13, 2014)

Are you sure you the Sony people you were talking to are here in the US? By the way this story was going, those people could have been in Timbuktu that is why they do not seem to know what your problem is...



sscarmack said:


> manaheim said:
> 
> 
> > When I was considering a D4 that stupid card thing was a real turnoff.
> ...


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## sscarmack (Jun 13, 2014)

Steve5D said:


> sscarmack said:
> 
> 
> > The customer is always right even if they are wrong.
> ...



Every time I've ever had any issues they have been resolved with little to no bickering, its called Customer Service for a reason. They are there to Serve the Customer, not the other way around. But thats your opinion and I respect that. I think your wrong though, you do everything you can to resolve a issue as a business. 


Here are some examples I've experience so far in my short life.

Apple replaced two chargers that have failed for free.

Samsung replaced a whole entire fridge because the LED screen on my door wouldn't turn on and here the people Home Depot hired to install it, hooked it up wrong. They still replaced it.

Subaru swapped out my entire dash bc my navigation was flickering.

Home Depot replaced a shower head of mine that I bought six months before and even threw away my receipt and they 'took my word' that I bought it from them and didn't even question it.


I could probably name a few others times too, but thats not my point here. My point is problems get resolved, not ignored.



Steve5D said:


> DiskoJoe said:
> 
> 
> > Why do you only have one card?
> ...



I have dozens of compact flash cards. I only have one XQD. I never show up with ONE card.


Also the D4 has dual slots, I could of easily popped the XQD out and shot on the CF card. I wanted to make sure none of the original photos got corrupt, if they did I needed to retake them as I already got through all the individual photos.


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## sscarmack (Jun 13, 2014)

Derrel said:


> Did you happen to switch capture formats while a buffer of images was writing to the card, such as switching from full-field to crop-mode? Or did you happen to accidentally turn the camera off in the middle of a write-to-card cycle? Bothy of those moves have caused me warning errors.
> 
> On the old D2x, I once shot the start of a 110 meter hurdles race in 2.0x high speed crop, then switched to full-field at the end...it "ate" the finish of the race because it was writing the images to the card, I guess. I was able to replicate the issue multiple times.
> 
> ...




Derrel, I did not switch any formats. The only thing I remember doing was bumping the iso from 100 to 200 or maybe it was the shutter speed from 1000 to 500. I can't remember exactly but I was changing the exposure and brought it back up to take a picture and click, nothing, click, nothing. Looked at the screen, error.

I usually do delete photos in the field. I sometimes take 1-2 just in case of blinks and I'll keep the better one.  I will be sure to not delete anymore hahaha.

I think I'm going to give the Lexar card a try. Thats the brand I use for my CF and so far its 'bulletproof'.


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## Dikkie (Jun 13, 2014)

I saw this exactly same story on : 
Funny & Stupid Customer Stories ? Not Always Right


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## sscarmack (Jun 13, 2014)

Dikkie said:


> I saw this exactly same story on :
> Funny & Stupid Customer Stories ? Not Always Right




Hahah, those were good.


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## gsgary (Jun 13, 2014)

robbins.photo said:


> Funny thing is, I'm not even sure Sony makes a camera that handles XQD - I know the D4 will, and I think Olympus has one that will as well - but the only one I know of that Sony makes that supports it is like a monster high end digital video camera that costs like 5 or 6 grand.  As far as still cameras I don't think any of the Sony's support XQD - Even their A99 - pretty much Sony's top of the line full frame doesn't support XQD as I recall.



I think my A7 does


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## sudodrew (Jun 13, 2014)

Pretty sure XQD isn't a Sony proprietary format. SanDisk and lexar also make it (or are suppose to).

 Though I totally agree in regards to the ridiculous customer service from Sony.

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## robbins.photo (Jun 13, 2014)

gsgary said:


> robbins.photo said:
> 
> 
> > Funny thing is, I'm not even sure Sony makes a camera that handles XQD - I know the D4 will, and I think Olympus has one that will as well - but the only one I know of that Sony makes that supports it is like a monster high end digital video camera that costs like 5 or 6 grand. As far as still cameras I don't think any of the Sony's support XQD - Even their A99 - pretty much Sony's top of the line full frame doesn't support XQD as I recall.
> ...



I could be wrong but I thought the slot on an A7 was SDHC or SDXC.  I think the other slot is for a pro-duo card.


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## gsgary (Jun 13, 2014)

robbins.photo said:


> I could be wrong but I thought the slot on an A7 was SDHC or SDXC.  I think the other slot is for a pro-duo card.



Your probably right I'm not into all the technical crap as long as I can change ISO shutter speed and aputure that will do me


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## robbins.photo (Jun 13, 2014)

gsgary said:


> robbins.photo said:
> 
> 
> > I could be wrong but I thought the slot on an A7 was SDHC or SDXC.  I think the other slot is for a pro-duo card.
> ...


as long as it does the job you need it to do I don't think anything else really matters that much

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## table1349 (Jun 13, 2014)

Steve5D said:


> sscarmack said:
> 
> 
> > The customer is always right even if they are wrong.
> ...


Steve, I must respectfully disagree with your ascertation.  

*The Customer is Always Right.

In the history of Humanity there has never been a stupid question asked - EVER.

If it is on the internet It has to be true.*

This is just common knowledge by any living breathing thinking individual.    

By the way, Bone Jouree, I'm a French Model if you were not aware.  :mrgreen:


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## 480sparky (Jun 13, 2014)

Those who subscribe to the quaint notion of "the customer is always right" have never worked in retail.


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## TreeofLifeStairs (Jun 13, 2014)

The point is not that the customer is always right (they clearly are not) but that you treat them as if they are. They may incur losses to begin with but the idea is that they will gain a customer that will continue to use and purchase their products in the future. 

It's probably safe to say that the OP is not going to buy another Sony memory card and may not buy anything Sony ever again over what probably would have cost them $20 (their estimated cost for the memory card). 

I think the gains out weigh the losses.


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## table1349 (Jun 13, 2014)

The point is the OP wants things done on his terms to satisfy himself, not the terms that Sony uses to treat everyone with.  Sony never said they wouldn't take care of it.   Frankly that is exactly the kind of customer that Sony and any other successful business doesn't need and probably doesn't want.  The $20.00 isn't worth $50.00 worth of hassle.


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## gsgary (Jun 14, 2014)

I wouldn't buy anything Sony until I tried a friends A7 and ended up buying one because I really liked it


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## nzmacro (Jun 14, 2014)

gsgary said:


> I wouldn't buy anything Sony until I tried a friends A7 and ended up buying one because I really liked it



Yep nothing wrong with them. Had two Sony pro duo sticks for over two years now as well. Added another one this year, nice fast stable memory IMO.

Danny.


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## table1349 (Jun 15, 2014)

One word - Betamax  :mrgreen:


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## manaheim (Jun 15, 2014)

One word - bluray.

Which is funny. They lost the Betamax war, they won the HD digital media war.

But the issue is not the winning, it's the how.

Sony went to all the major distribution companies and said... "You want to keep getting Sony funded movies? Then you drop HD and you drop it now."

HD folded within just a couple weeks.


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## table1349 (Jun 15, 2014)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_definition_optical_disc_format_war 
Also keep in mind that Sony didn't do this on their own.  They partnered with Phillips, unlike the Betamax which was their own proprietary disaster.


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## sscarmack (Jun 15, 2014)

Just to give you all an update. The card finally failed. It no longer reads or writes. So there's no point in holding onto it. I guess Sony wins haha


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## sscarmack (Jul 8, 2014)

Replacement arrived today








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## 407370 (Jul 9, 2014)

Sony practically invented the concept of a closed Eco system that Apple have taken to extremes.

I dont own Sony or Apple products as I like the freedom of choosing.


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