# I am so proud of this picture...



## mostlysunny (Jan 5, 2015)

I took this last night.  I can't believe I TOOK IT!!  I can't wait to get out and shoot more at night.

Anyone like it, or dislike, and why?  Thoughts appreciated.


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## Light Guru (Jan 5, 2015)

It's a bit under exposed and the horizon is placed right in the middle which is not the most pleasing composition. Your long exposure on the water is nice though.


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## qleak (Jan 5, 2015)

It'd be helpful to leave the exif info in your image files. Or to post it with your files. If you want technical critiques or advice on how you could have shot it better this could be really helpful 

What EXIF Photo Data Is, How To Find It & How To Understand It


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## 480sparky (Jan 5, 2015)

I hate to burst your bubble, but........ what's the subject?


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## jsecordphoto (Jan 5, 2015)

nothing much to add, maybe just that the rock directly in your foreground is out of focus. A good start though, I'm glad you are enjoying shooting at night, it's one of my favorite things to do


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## bribrius (Jan 5, 2015)

Light Guru said:


> It's a bit under exposed and the horizon is placed right in the middle which is not the most pleasing composition. Your long exposure on the water is nice though.


i was actually thinking the opposite. it is over exposed. For a night shot there isnt much dark in this frame.


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## mostlysunny (Jan 5, 2015)

I am not sure if there is a subject. This was my first time working with my camera at night.  It was taken at 9:30 pm, Apeture F14, ISO 200


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## Parker219 (Jan 5, 2015)

Pro tip: There should always be a subject.

Of course a landscape scene,  the subject can be the overall scene.


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## mostlysunny (Jan 5, 2015)

The focus was on infinity .. .I know the info you are asking for.. I will post when I figure out how to post the data from the picture.

I can't say there is a subject in this picture.  I love how it came out.  I think it is over exposed..I have one that looks more like night time, but I don't love it.

I was trying to get more detail on the rocks on the left upper side of the picture.. So I kept exposing it longer. This was 4 minutes maybe 4 mins 10 seconds.. 


PS, just in general.. I LOVE the look of overlook photos.. Photography is an art.. We are all artist.  So if you see a picture a raf over exposed.. Just remember I like it that way!!


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## Zen1300 (Jan 5, 2015)

Given the statement, "there should always be a subject," can someone define options that would present a subject?  

Could the OP frame/crop it to emphasize the long-exposed water in the foreground - less beach or less sky?   Would setting up a rock formation as the front-focused element more clearly work?


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## bribrius (Jan 5, 2015)

mostlysunny said:


> The focus was on infinity .. .I know the info you are asking for.. I will post when I figure out how to post the data from the picture.
> 
> I can't say there is a subject in this picture.  I love how it came out.  I think it is over exposed..I have one that looks more like night time, but I don't love it.
> 
> ...


it was just a observation on the exposure.  There is no "right" exposure the exposure is right for whatever type of photo you want to take. Your subject is the water and land. next time someone tells you that you need a subject tell them to go look up black square . Black Square  - Kazimir Malevich - WikiArt.org


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## mostlysunny (Jan 5, 2015)

To be honest, I was with someone showing a few people how to take a picture at night.  Trying to show us how to use our camera at night in Bulb, or manual.  I was in Bulb.  I thought my subject was going to be the lights in the horizon.  But when she looked at my pictures she thought I would all more rocks to it.  I actually didn't have the rocks on the left size bottom of the picture in the first few I took.   She told me to add more rock to the picture.  I would have liked to of moved to another location but we were in a small cove at a beach I had no idea was there.  So I would have been in others space if I moved.. I did want more of the lights in the backgroud.  But the purpose of last night was to teach me something (ANYTHING) to do with my camera out of auto.   So that was my purpose of the picture.. I love they way it looks.. and I can't believe it was the dead of night when I took it.


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## photoguy99 (Jan 5, 2015)

Parker219 said:


> Pro tip: There should always be a subject.



No. This is just wrong.


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## photoguy99 (Jan 5, 2015)

Congratulations, OP! You've grasped the basics of a fundamentally different mode of expression from the ones you've been using.

Well done!


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## tirediron (Jan 5, 2015)

photoguy99 said:


> Parker219 said:
> 
> 
> > Pro tip: There should always be a subject.
> ...


No, not necessarily; in the case of many landscape images, the subject is the whole image.  Unlike for instance a portrait, where there's a clearly defined subject, landscape images often rely on the overall scene.


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## mostlysunny (Jan 5, 2015)

My New Year resolution is to learn how to use this camera.  I have had it for 5-6 years... I almost always use auto on it.  My Friend just bought the Canon 70D-- I have the 7D-- So we are working together.


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## TCampbell (Jan 5, 2015)

It's always thrilling to push your limits and learn to do something you've never done before.  Congratulations on that achievement.

Keep in mind that on any photography related website, you'll be showing images to photographers with a quite a bit of experience.  When we start out, we're thrilled with our initial results.  As you gain experience, you begin to raise your standard of what qualifies as "good".  You fuss over smaller details.  You find lots of fault in images that you previously thought as impressive.

I have a friend who is a graphics artist and he did a lot of pen & ink technical drawings (at one point he worked in the automotive industry drawing those technical diagrams you find in car owners manuals or repair manuals showing how the parts fit together, etc.)  I always thought his ability to draw was amazing.  But after he'd been at it for about 5 years, he pulled out some of his early work and exclaimed "Damn I sucked!  I'd fire myself for doing work this bad."  But to MY EYE... the hand-made drawings looked pretty good.  It was enlightening to watch him nit pick over things that probably nobody else would have noticed.

But photographers do precisely the same thing...   after you've been at this for years, you'll be surprised at the flaws you can spot.  You won't let yourself off the hook so easily.

With that, here's a somewhat humorous diagram.  We laugh at it because we know it's true.  Anyway... this thing has been around the internet enough times that I have no idea who deserves the credit for it.

http://www.shuttercount.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/A-photographers-learning-curve.jpg

Anyway, the thing is... people around here are going to spot things that you probably won't be able to spot yourself... at least not initially.  Don't take it personally -- instead, learn from it.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Jan 5, 2015)

Sunny!


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## mishele (Jan 6, 2015)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> Sunny!


BITTER!!


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## Designer (Jan 6, 2015)

mostlysunny said:


> My New Year resolution is to learn how to use this camera.


Congratulations, mostlysunny!


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## The_Traveler (Jan 6, 2015)

mostlysunny said:


> The focus was on infinity ..
> 
> I was trying to get more detail on the rocks on the left upper side of the picture.. So I kept exposing it longer. This was 4 minutes maybe 4 mins 10 seconds..






mostlysunny said:


> I am not sure if there is a subject. This was my first time working with my camera at night.  It was taken at 9:30 pm, Apeture F14, ISO 200





mostlysunny said:


> The focus was on infinity .. .I know the info you are asking for.. I will post when I figure out how to post the data from the picture.
> I can't say there is a subject in this picture.  I love how it came out.  I think it is over exposed..I have one that looks more like night time, but I don't love it.
> I was trying to get more detail on the rocks on the left upper side of the picture.. So I kept exposing it longer. This was 4 minutes maybe 4 mins 10 seconds..
> PS, just in general.. I LOVE the look of overlook photos.. Photography is an art.. We are all artist.  So if you see a picture a raf over exposed.. Just remember I like it that way!!



Disregarding the composition of this picture, you are doing things that are at odds with each other and only cause the image not to be the best it can.

In general, the goal is to shoot a picture by balancing the three legs of the exposure triangle - aperture, shutter speed and iso - while keeping each of them in the best possible zone to get the picture quality you want.

You are shooting at a very low iso - and you don't know if your camera shoots well at higher iso.
You are shooting at f14 - it is quite probable that by that aperture, you are getting some diffraction that unsharpens your image.
Your exposure is more than 4 minutes, and so you are probably getting noise from the sensor.
You are focused at infinity - and you are not aware of the dof issues and 'hyperfocal' distance.

So you could shoot at a higher iso, with a larger aperture and focused on a different spot so the result would be a sharper overall image with less noise in the shadows.



mostlysunny said:


> PS, just in general.. I LOVE the look of overlook photos.. Photography is an art.. We are all artist.  So if you see a picture a raf over exposed.. Just remember I like it that way!!



You may indeed be an 'artist' but your appreciation of the quality of your own work is colored by the facts that this is one of the first pictures you made successfully and you really don't know much about the craft or the art yet.

Just open your mind to others' opinions, don't get so invested in your pictures that you profess your love and attachment and defend them to the death. Then others don't want to hurt your feelings by telling you honestly what they think.

Remember also that, although this may be your first successful picture of water/beach/cove/waves, this is a pretty standard subject and each of us has seen hundreds or thousands of similar pictures and we  don't share your excitement and pride of ownership.

What TCampbell said about looking back at one's early work and realizing how crude it was is an experience that is common to all of us - and will be to you too.[/QUOTE]


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## soufiej (Jan 6, 2015)

mostlysunny said:


> The focus was on infinity ...
> 
> PS, just in general.. I LOVE the look of overlook photos.. Photography is an art.. We are all artist.  So if you see a picture a raf over exposed.. Just remember I like it that way!!






Well, that is the problem with asking for a critique, isn't it?  Since the word itself begins with the idea of being critical, that's mostly what you get.

As in many fields of subjective opinion, there are those who will fall back on, "The only thing that matters is whether I like it."  As if pornography were that simple!  

If you're not trying to make money from your work, that's fine.  However, there are a few basic rules which should be followed or at least acknowledged.  How many articles have you read about breaking rules?  Too many IMO.  But rules are only guidelines to a given situation.  What looks good to you is in many ways what looks good to you.  As you go forward, what you like is probably going to change as you are exposed to more ideas.   

As a budding photographer just learning to move the command dial off "Auto", bravo!  I'd say you have every right to be proud of that shot.  Remember, what you get as criticism is only what others would have seen and done - had they been there.  More experience will gain you more ideas and you will eventually get to that point if you continue onward.  I would definitely hang on to this one though.  And in another few months of shooting look back at what you had then and what you are getting and aiming at in the future.  Be critical of your own work and don't take much of what others say.  They weren't there.  

As to a subject being required; I tend to consider photography as the function of capturing an event.  The photographer is showing us their impression of one brief moment in time and the image should indicate a story line.  Even a fairly static image such as yours should have a story of sorts.  So, if you had to put an event into your shot, what would you say was the event you captured? 

And, looking at your shot, about the only thing I would really have wanted from you at the time, given your experience level and the reason you were on the beach, is to have moved that horizon line downward.  Centering strong lines such as a horizon should be saved for those moments when you wish to direct the viewer's eye to something else in the image of greater importance.  At least, that's my opinion.  I would have asked you to crouch down to give us a different viewpoint.  

Otherwise, very good work for your initial venture into non-Auto mode.  Save it to a back up drive and play with it in your image processing.


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## Designer (Jan 6, 2015)

I think you mean photography.


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## mostlysunny (Jan 7, 2015)

Just taking it all in..

I talked to my friend... She DID play around with the settings... while I was just blown away.. Bitter gave me those for a reason.  I was ready to go home with my one picture.. She told me she has 10 that she likes. I have 3 that I like.  The moon tonight was beautiful, but I am too scared to go out in the dark alone.   I will get out there more, and read more, and have my cheat sheets with me.. and get better.. I hope.. Thank you all for your input.


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## Vtec44 (Jan 7, 2015)

Less writing, more pictures.


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## richardo.diniz (Jan 7, 2015)

Nice picture!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## pdq5oh (Jan 8, 2015)

I'd crop the rocks at the bottom out, thus moving the horizon down from the middle. That'll also remove the oof rocks. I feel the clouds as they move up into the right, top corner pull my eye thru the photo & make me look at the whole scene. You'll get some diffraction past f8 or 11 with most lenses, but you may have no choice to get the DOF you're looking for. Don't focus on infinity. Focus appr 1/3 of the way into the scene. On your 7D you can check DOF before taking the picture. I like the photo & think you did a good job with it, in general.


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## K_Pugh (Jan 10, 2015)

Just make sure you keep all of your images so you can reflect on them in years to come. It's amazing to see how far you've come and how you've developed your style. You will inevitably cringe at some of the shots you thought were great at the time (I've cringed a lot recently lol) but it does help. 

Keep on shooting and keep producing those images!


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## KmH (Jan 10, 2015)

A technical note:
With a point-of-focus distance at infinity f/14 is not needed for a deep depth-of-field.
Using f/14 instead of a wider lens aperture does make the near DoF a bit closer to the camera to aid foreground focus, and f/14 helps to make the shutter speed longer to help the water blur.
But the far limit of the DoF would be at infinity even if the PoF was only about 150 feet in front on the camera.


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## otherprof (Jan 10, 2015)

mostlysunny said:


> I took this last night.  I can't believe I TOOK IT!!  I can't wait to get out and shoot more at night.
> 
> Anyone like it, or dislike, and why?  Thoughts appreciated.View attachment 92650


Thanks for reminding me of that feeling that you've just done something magical. You might want to try adjusting the image to make it look more like you saw it at the time. Turning day into night can also give a magical feeling.


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## mostlysunny (Jan 13, 2015)

I took other pictures that night.. Here are some that look like night...


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## mostlysunny (Jan 13, 2015)

Or does this one look  more like night.. I went outside to try again tonight.. Epic FAIL!


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## funwitha7d (Jan 14, 2015)

First I think its important you like the image and you clearly do and are prod of it so good.  In terms of feedback, essentially a lovely scene, you were there and are excited about it, so take more and continue to enjoy.  I would have cropped a lot of the sand due to the distraction of this esp with the footprints.  So play with cropping if you are interested to see if you like the result more and next time you could apply some changes to composition if that is what you want to do.


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## Compaq (Jan 14, 2015)

I agree with tirediron. I find many of my own images to lack "a subject". However, I do not think this necessarily degrades the image. When I encounter some type of spectacular light when out hiking or strolling in the woods, I do not need a subject to enjoy the scene; I take in the entire thing.

Still, it is important to compose the image properly. You could for example have cropped away some of the empty sky, which does not add anything of importance to your photograph. The image can sometimes be compared to a machine: all necessary parts should be included, and all unnecessary parts excluded. Or, if you prefer, the photographer could be compared to a reverse painter: A painter includes just what is necessary, while a photographer tries to exclude everything unnecessary.

I think the scenery is nice, but the lighting is quite dull. The lighting truly can make an image pop and come alive, and your image seems quite lifeless. Try to come back during a nice sunset, sunrise,  or some other time when the lighting might be more interesting.

This is all just my opinion, of course.


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## MikeFlorendo (Jan 14, 2015)

I do a lot of night photography and it's more difficult in the technical aspect.  If you over expose or under expose you loose a lot of detail and it's harder to get it correct in post.  I think your off to great start.  Subject wise it's OK but my personal opinion is that it needs to be cooler and look more like night.  If the star trails were more clear it may look more like night.  The only way we know it's night is the lights from the far away city but that is such a small portion of the photo.  A higher iso with a larger aperture may have picked up those stars better.  As for exposure here is a nifty chart. (See attached) this will allow you to take a high iso picture to test for exposure and comp and then convert it to a lower iso. This way you don't waste 4 minutes a shot figuring things out.  I hope you don't mind I did a little edit on your photo.  Gives it more of a night feel.  

 


Stars help out a lot here is mine.


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