# Legal Mumbo-Jumbo



## jmtonkin (Sep 10, 2015)

I have a relatively specific question regarding copyright and I was not really able to find anything online.  I took a picture of my universities Campanile tonight, and I would like to post them to my photography page.  This building was built in 1929, so it is covered under copyright law.  Being as this is a state-run university, however, do the same laws apply?  Because my tax dollars fund it, is it alright for me to post a picture of it?  I know several people do, but they also are not running a business. 

I know the best option would be to just ask to be safe, but I have no idea who I would even ask!


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## tirediron (Sep 10, 2015)

There should be no issue with that, as far as I understand US copyright law.  I'm sure one of our more knowledable members will be along soon to give you a more definitive answer.


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## The_Traveler (Sep 10, 2015)

Who would care?


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## KmH (Sep 10, 2015)

Visit the Copyright.gov web site and read the law.
There is not all that much of it to read.

Architectural copyright only applies to the plans, not the exterior of a building that can be seen from public property.



> http://copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.pdf
> Page 98 - *§120*
> Scope of exclusive rights in architectural works
> (a) *Pictorial Representations Permitted*.—The copyright in an architectural work that has been constructed does not include the right to prevent the making, distributing, or public display of pictures, paintings, photographs, or other pictorial representations of the work, if the building in which the work is embodied is located in or ordinarily visible from a public place.



Also copyright law has changed significantly since 1929, as has the length of time copyright is in effect.

No attribution manner stated by author - Creative CommonsAttribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported license.


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## jmtonkin (Sep 10, 2015)

The_Traveler said:


> Who would care?


I imagine that if it were a copyright violation and I posted it to my website or Facebook page that the university could file a lawsuit.  As I am working to start my business, I would rather not have that legal issue hanging over my head.  I wasn't sure how the law worked regarding state owned monuments/facilities/buildings, so I went to the one place full of people who have likely encountered this issue.  I doubt that the university would waste their time perusing this matter, but I would rather not risk it if it could come back to bite me.


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## proshotimaging (Sep 13, 2015)

jmtonkin said:


> The_Traveler said:
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> > Who would care?
> ...


Good sir, you have not stated in which country the law applies. Under UK law it's different to US law but in general the law of panorama applies. If it's taken from a visible point on public land then usually the law of Panorama applies. Most European countries have the same law except for a few and Dubai it's illegal to photograph any buildings without the architect's permission. So if you see a photo of the Bury Kalifah, somebody as probably gone to a lot of time and expense to take it.

[emoji46] 

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## limr (Sep 13, 2015)

proshotimaging said:


> Good sir, you have not stated in which country the law applies. Under UK law it's different to US law but in general the law of panorama applies. If it's taken from a visible point on public land then usually the law of Panorama applies. Most European countries have the same law except for a few and Dubai it's illegal to photograph any buildings without the architect's permission. So if you see a photo of the Bury Kalifah, somebody as probably gone to a lot of time and expense to take it.
> 
> [emoji46]
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk



Look at his little mini-profile on the left. His location is Minnesota and South Dakota for school.


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## proshotimaging (Sep 13, 2015)

limr said:


> proshotimaging said:
> 
> 
> > Good sir, you have not stated in which country the law applies. Under UK law it's different to US law but in general the law of panorama applies. If it's taken from a visible point on public land then usually the law of Panorama applies. Most European countries have the same law except for a few and Dubai it's illegal to photograph any buildings without the architect's permission. So if you see a photo of the Bury Kalifah, somebody as probably gone to a lot of time and expense to take it.
> ...


He didn't say which country he took the photos in. Where they're taken and later displayed is probably an entirely different matter. Copyright law is complex.

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## Designer (Sep 13, 2015)

jmtonkin said:


> I doubt that the university would waste their time perusing this matter, but I would rather not risk it if it could come back to bite me.


That is a foolish assumption.

Somewhere on campus is an office staffed with people who know who to ask.  Call or visit.


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## limr (Sep 13, 2015)

proshotimaging said:


> He didn't say which country he took the photos in. Where they're taken and later displayed is probably an entirely different matter. Copyright law is complex.



Sorry, but...



jmtonkin said:


> I have a relatively specific question regarding copyright and I was not really able to find anything online.  *I took a picture of my universities Campanile tonight, and I would like to post them to my photography page. * This building was built in 1929, so it is covered under copyright law.  *Being as this is a state-run university, however, do the same laws apply?  Because my tax dollars fund it, *is it alright for me to post a picture of it?  I know several people do, but they also are not running a business.



It was at his university which, according to his mini-profile, is in South Dakota, and he wants to display them on the Internet.

And yes, I know copyright law is complex. But those questions were already answered.


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## Braineack (Sep 13, 2015)

this makes me want to travel to SD just to take pictures of this building and post them all the internet just to show you not to worry.


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## wyogirl (Sep 13, 2015)

If, and that's a BIG IF, your university has a problem with the picture... They will ask you to remove it before they take any legal action. They don't want to spend money on a lawsuit any more than you do. But really.... You are being paranoid.


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## Designer (Sep 13, 2015)

Here's ours:



 

(shy)



 

detail:



 

Really dorky (p*ss-poor version of it in a stupid place)



 

sculpture garden homage done not very well:


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## limr (Sep 13, 2015)

And here's one from UPitt.


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## proshotimaging (Sep 13, 2015)

limr said:


> proshotimaging said:
> 
> 
> > He didn't say which country he took the photos in. Where they're taken and later displayed is probably an entirely different matter. Copyright law is complex.
> ...


Be as pedantic as you like. I studied at university in South Africa, educated in Zimbabwe and work in England. Nowhere does that tell you anything about which country the copyright law applies to photos I took of my state-run college.

Copyright law is complex because wherever the image is displayed, the law depends entirely upon the country it was taken in, their local laws where the image is now being broadcast from and where it's being viewed in. So for example, an unauthorised picture taken of the White House oval room held on German servers and broadcast only to Dutch observers would be under Dutch law, German jurisdiction and copyright law application would be upon European Copyright Law... America doesn't even get a look in unless the State Department can prove that it's a matter of national security that may jeopardise the President. So hopefully that clarifies how muddy the waters of copyright law are especially if somebody issues a DMCA against a Zimbabwean copyright breaches who effectively gives the yanks a middle finger and gets off scot-free.

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## Designer (Sep 13, 2015)

limr said:


> And here's one from UPitt.



Daredevil cat shows off.


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## limr (Sep 13, 2015)

proshotimaging said:


> limr said:
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> > proshotimaging said:
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And you can be as pedantic as you like as well. I was not making any claims about the copyright issues, but was simply answering your question. You said the OP didn't give information about what country he took the picture in. The fact is that he _did_ give that information in his original post. The photo was taken at his university, which, according to his profile information, is in South Dakota. That's in the U.S.

Apparently reading comprehension is complex as well.


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## vfotog (Sep 13, 2015)

proshotimaging said:


> limr said:
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> > proshotimaging said:
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OMG, why not just admit that you didn't read carefully? The OP resides in and took the photographs in the USA. The information you said wasn't there was _always _there; you just missed it.


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## proshotimaging (Sep 13, 2015)

vfotog said:


> proshotimaging said:
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> > limr said:
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The point I was making is that copyright law is different in every country and individual nations law supersede US laws etc so unless the country was a Dubai building and he lived in Dubai.

People are not good at reading the facts and I had no idea where the university was according to details in the post. I'm not here to do background checks on a post, it's author or legality of the post: I'm here to read for enjoyment and enlightenment and where possible to help others in their journey too. You can get out of my throat now.


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## vintagesnaps (Sep 13, 2015)

It sounds like what you're talking about is using a photograph of the university's property to promote your photography business. If that's the case you may want to check with whatever office at the university would handle publicity/public relations and see if you need to get a property release signed or not. Copyright covers written work, photographs, artwork, etc. not the building itself.

If you just want to post a picture you took of something on campus on your FB page to show your friends that seems to be personal use and you wouldn't need to worry about a release. Usually for use as a fine art print or for editorial use one isn't needed (although may be requested by a media outlet to use especially from a photographer they haven't worked with before).

There are copyright resources here. American Society of Media Photographers .


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## limr (Sep 13, 2015)

I was unaware that I was anywhere near your throat, but okay. As I said, I was just trying to clear things up for you.


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## vfotog (Sep 13, 2015)

proshotimaging said:


> vfotog said:
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fyi, when you look at the upper left hand corner of a post, you will see information: the poster, when they joined, how many messages they have posted and how many likes they have received. If they provided their location when they joined, that will show up too. That is the case with the OP, so no need to do a "background check".


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## Derrel (Sep 13, 2015)

THIS has been a fantastic post. One of the best posts of the day!


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## deeky (Sep 13, 2015)

Here, I'll break the ice for you (not really).  This is the exact Campanile we are talking about here.  If you look around, there are a lot of photos of it out there, especially from alum.  It's the outside of a building.  You shouldn't have any problem as long as you don't claim it (the Campanile itself)  as your own.  I've never heard of anyone in the area getting in trouble for having pics of it.




IMG_2497b by breckmiller, on Flickr


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## unpopular (Sep 13, 2015)

Copyright and Architectural Photos | Nolo.com

This is very clear. You're fine.


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## proshotimaging (Sep 13, 2015)

Derrel said:


> THIS has been a fantastic post. One of the best posts of the day!


Glad you liked it.

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## jmtonkin (Sep 14, 2015)

Well, I evidently lost track of this post, and it seems that things became derailed.  To answer some questions:  this picture was taken in South Dakota where I attend college.  I've already been approached by two people who want to purchase a print.  I think to be safe, I'll need to track down someone on campus.

For those wondering, here's the picture.

View attachment 108170


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## Dave442 (Sep 14, 2015)

We'll I do not see a cat in that shot, so at least no model release is required.


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## The_Traveler (Sep 14, 2015)

Before you sell that shot, I suggest you re-edit it to remove the oversharpening haloes and upright the tower.


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## snowbear (Sep 14, 2015)

The_Traveler said:


> Before you sell that shot, I suggest you re-edit it to remove the oversharpening haloes and upright the tower.


and the attention grabbing watermark.


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## jmtonkin (Sep 14, 2015)

I agree that it does look slightly slanted.  I straightened it some already, but the perspective angles made things weird.  Also, I'm not sure if the halos (however minor) are from over-sharpening.  This was an HDR merge of three shots each one-stop apart.  While it was still overcast, it was really bright out and the building was too dark otherwise.


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## jmtonkin (Sep 14, 2015)

snowbear said:


> The_Traveler said:
> 
> 
> > Before you sell that shot, I suggest you re-edit it to remove the oversharpening haloes and upright the tower.
> ...


That is only on this post.  I exported a copy with it, and a copy without it.


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## snowbear (Sep 14, 2015)

vfotog said:


> fyi, when you look at the upper left hand corner of a post, you will see information: the poster, when they joined, how many messages they have posted and how many likes they have received. If they provided their location when they joined, that will show up too. That is the case with the OP, so no need to do a "background check".


I'm not sure if I'm the only one that has this issue, but if I am viewing posts on my phone (Android phone, Chrome browser) I don't get the metadata for the poster - just their name.


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## limr (Sep 14, 2015)

snowbear said:


> vfotog said:
> 
> 
> > fyi, when you look at the upper left hand corner of a post, you will see information: the poster, when they joined, how many messages they have posted and how many likes they have received. If they provided their location when they joined, that will show up too. That is the case with the OP, so no need to do a "background check".
> ...



If you're holding the phone normally (portrait orientation) then you'll only see the name. But if you turn it sideways, it will show the information that usually shows up under the poster's avatar. I also use Chrome on an Android.


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