# Surfing Photography? Do I use a flash?



## feRRari4756 (Dec 18, 2009)

Hey guys Im hoping someone on here photgraphs surfing (in the water, not from shore) but if not im thinkning you guys can still help me. I want to get shots like this (of course higher quality, i just wanted to show you the angles and stuff):

http://www.richard-seaman.com/USA/Cities/SanDiego/Surfers/InABarrel.jpg

http://archives.starbulletin.com/2005/10/23/promopic.jpg

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01443/dane-reynolds_1443177i.jpg

So now I have a 30d, canon 70-200 L USM F/4.0 and a Canon 17-55 f/2.8 IS USM. I'll probably be using the 17-55 for surf pics. My question is: DO I NEED A FLASH FOR THESE PICS? i'm wondering because I am buying a waterproof casing adn dont know If i should get the flash one or the regular one. here are the two i'm looking at:
Ewa-Marine | U-B 100 Underwater Housing f/ SLRs w/ | EM U-B100

Ewa-Marine | U-BXP100 Underwater Housing | EM U-BXP100 | B&H

Do you guys think I would need a flash or no? And If I did, do you think it would even be powerful through the plastic case that i'm buying? (I would be using a Canon 430ex II)

Thanks!


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## IgsEMT (Dec 18, 2009)

Normally, I'd say use flash. Given your environment, I'd say get a used rebel and shoot it with that...
Electronics and water....


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## redtippmann (Dec 18, 2009)

I would say no to the flash. Only because you will most likely be at or near eye level with the surfers and a flash can be distracting. And if it were me i would need all the concentration to even stand on a surfboard.(but I never tried) 

And you may ask, why would they make ones with room for flash? Well one of my good friends shoot underwater all the time and he says that he always uses flash because the natural light can get pretty dim even when near the surface.

So if you might want to shoot underwater some time, I would go with the case that can accommodate a flash unit.

PS: Take my advice with a grain of salt because I never shot a situation like this. But good luck!


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## chip (Dec 18, 2009)

If your subject is over 100 feet away, a flash will make hardly any difference. So I would say - no flash.


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## bryan_h (Dec 18, 2009)

I can't answer your question, but I thought I would throw this out there. Clark Little takes amazing wave photos in Hawaii. His site gives good info of how he shoots the waves and it may help you.

Clark Little Photography, Hawaii | Official Site


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## Tiny (Dec 19, 2009)

I wouldn't use a flash because your shutter speed will be slower, just shoot at iso 200 and a faster shutter speed, the pictures will look better if the water is still and the surfer wont be blurry. but i would buy the flash one because you may want to do some underwater shooting and its better to have it and not need it then to need it and not have it.


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## feRRari4756 (Dec 19, 2009)

Thanks fr all your replies! One post brought up an important point. 

I want to use at least 1/800 shutter speed so will a flash even be effective with that? Is there a way I can't set te flash to be a fill flash at 1/800? Or is the shutter speed too fast?

Thanks


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## spudgunr (Dec 19, 2009)

I had to look it up (I'm a Nikon guy), but it looks like your camera can use high speed sync, so 1/800th would be fine. However, flash output will be drasically reduced, so you'll need to buy as powerful of a flash as you can afford. FP flash mode robs power from the flash by pulsing it at weaker levels multiple times so there is light throughout the shutters movement.

Flash Photography with Canon EOS Cameras - Part I.

I only looked at the first picture you showed, but that picture could have benefited from fill flash IMO.


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## Overread (Dec 19, 2009)

I would not shoot such shots with an 18-55mm lens - because if your goign for shots that close (as shown in the images you linked to) chances are that the surfer is going to surf right into you (followed by the wave crashing over you both) - not something either of you wants to happen.

From what little I know of surfing photography most is done with much longer lenses - 400-600mm type focal lengths so that you can shoot without getting in the way. For shots like the one your showing you appear to need to be in the water at least, but you would still need a long focal length so that you and the surfer didn't collied (and so that you don't get hit by the wave which is just not healthy when your using a DSLR )
edit - I'm pretty sure that second shot you link to is taken from the shoreline using a longer lens

Of course waterproofing and saltwater become more of a problem as you head down that road so I would do some serious research into this. Further a flash in the hotshoe is a decent hold but it won't take abuse without being damaged - something to consider .


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## Overread (Dec 19, 2009)

IgsEMT said:


> Normally, I'd say use flash. Given your environment, I'd say get a used rebel and shoot it with that...
> Electronics and water....



Debatable on this point - not because of the saltwater issue, but because of AF speed. Subjects moving toward the camera are one of the more challenging things for AF to lock onto and I have had  trouble just getting a husky in focus (with a 70-200mm f2.8 IS so good lens AF speed) when running toward my camera and I am using a 400D. Its not impossible, but the camera is certainly not as quick as some of the more advanced models and it can make all the difference when working in such an environment


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## KmH (Dec 19, 2009)

spudgunr said:


> I had to look it up (I'm a Nikon guy), but it looks like your camera can use high speed sync, so 1/800th would be fine. However, flash output will be drasically reduced, so you'll need to buy as powerful of a flash as you can afford. FP flash mode robs power from the flash by pulsing it at weaker levels multiple times so there is light throughout the shutters movement.
> 
> Flash Photography with Canon EOS Cameras - Part I.
> 
> I only looked at the first picture you showed, but that picture could have benefited from fill flash IMO.


Flash duration at full power is about 1/1000sec so your shutter speed doesn't have to be any faster than the normal sync speed, around 1/250. The flash duration will stop the motion.

FP sync is reduces the power which also shortens the flash duration to as short as 1/40,000sec.


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## spudgunr (Dec 19, 2009)

In broad daylight flash duration and brightness is not going to stop any motion when being used as fill flash. It will make the dark areas when the guy is covered under a shroud of wave more vivid I would think.


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## gsgary (Dec 20, 2009)

You will need a wider lens


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## Big Mike (Dec 21, 2009)

My guess is to use no flash, but use a fast lens and make sure you expose for the surfer and not the water/surf.


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## WTF? (Dec 23, 2009)

feRRari4756 said:


> Thanks fr all your replies! One post brought up an important point.
> 
> I want to use at least 1/800 shutter speed so will a flash even be effective with that? Is there a way I can't set te flash to be a fill flash at 1/800? Or is the shutter speed too fast?
> 
> Thanks



for sync speed that fast youll need a camera with an electronic shutter, cameras with mechanical shutters can only sync to around 1/250. the reason for this is while the flash duration may only be as fast as 1/1000 or whatever, with a mechanical shutter, the first curtain opens and the second one closely follows, as speeds past ~1/250, there is no room for the flash to fire because only a strip of light is let into the sensor that is "wiped" across i guess you could say. because of this when the flash fires youll get on half or less of the frame exposed, with part of the frame left unexposed, because the flash is blocked by the shutter.
its kinda hard to explain without a diagram, but im sure you could google it. 
cameras with electronic shutters dont have any physical mechanism so you can sync as fast as you want. i know the nikon d70 and the original canon 1d have them, both of which you can probably pick up pretty cheap. theres others, but those are the only two i can remember off the top of my head, again, im sure you can give it a google.


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## Mike_E (Dec 24, 2009)

Depending where you are and the time of day you might consider a large Plexiglas mirror held by an assistant.  With some practice you can light a subject from a long way away.

(hint:  because it's Plexiglas you can bend it to focus or diffuse the beam from it to suit your subject)


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## uberben (Jan 1, 2010)

I shoot surf/kiting/windsurfing photography out in the water with a housing kit and flash will complicate things from the get go.

Honestly...I wouldn't touch that housing you are going to use.  Going out into the surf means going out into very violent water and you want to make sure you have a solid housing kit to protect your camera.  I have seen first hand a few camera's get trashed in the same housing you are looking at from a wave dunking the photographer and then thrashing the camera.  I would hate to see your 17-55 and 30d get wet. Zooming in that housing is going to be really hard too. 

I have been using Essex Surf Housings and they are awesome : Link.  I am #3 on the list for the new one for my 7d and can't wait to get it. 

Flash: I don't shoot flash with surfers in waves.  I will shoot flash at dusk when I'm shooting kiteboarding and windsurfing in the flats or chop.  Usually it's a set of vivitar 285hv's on some heavy duty flash stands.  They are triggered by my Alien Bee's Cyber Sync's. I built some waterproof housings for the flashes and the trigger. Sync speeds on a 30d are 1/250.


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## Ejazzle (Jan 9, 2010)

the first two pictures you posted the photog was not in the water. I use my 10mm all the time for surfing. I have the ubxp 100 and having that fill flash when i need it really helps a lot. 

You cant use a big aperture when you are shooting in the water. It will be impossible to focus the surfer at f/ 2.8. And for the statement that said use iso 200, disregard that completely. If anything you should use a higher iso.


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## CraniumDesigns (Jan 14, 2010)

all this was good advice. my only advice is be EXTREMELY FREAKIN CAREFUL when it comes to ur camera gear and salt water. i cant stress it enough!!! i just lost my rebel xs body and possibly my $1400 100-400L because of salt water.


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