# How accurate are online shutter counts



## MSnowy (Dec 5, 2015)

I've used an online shutter counter to check the amount of clicks on my d3s. The amount seems low compared to the number of files I've downloaded into Lightroom form the camera. Any thoughts?


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## tirediron (Dec 5, 2015)

I would have thought it would be exactly accurate; it just be a simple data file.  How far out does it seem?


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## DB_Cro (Dec 5, 2015)

+1 
I don't see how it could be wrong.


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## Designer (Dec 5, 2015)

Doesn't that count become embedded into each new file?


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## gsgary (Dec 5, 2015)

I can't see the point just shoot till it stops


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## MSnowy (Dec 5, 2015)

tirediron said:


> I would have thought it would be exactly accurate; it just be a simple data file.  How far out does it seem?


 
Its seems way off. Online shutter counters say 11,257.  This year I've downloaded 19,717 from the camera into lightroom.


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## astroNikon (Dec 5, 2015)

Try a couple more online counters and compare.
Or EXIF editors and find the Counter.
FYI, Flickr shows the Image Number if you check the EXIF


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## jaomul (Dec 5, 2015)

Hae you downloaded both raw and jpeg into lightroom (2 files 1 photo?)


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## DB_Cro (Dec 5, 2015)

gsgary said:


> I can't see the point just shoot till it stops



Would you buy a used camera with that mindset too or would you rather buy one with 10.000 or 90.000 clicks?

Great comment.


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## MSnowy (Dec 5, 2015)

gsgary said:


> I can't see the point just shoot till it stops


 
Wow you actually took the time to type that. Slow day?


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## MSnowy (Dec 5, 2015)

jaomul said:


> Hae you downloaded both raw and jpeg into lightroom (2 files 1 photo?)


 
No I checked.


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## tirediron (Dec 5, 2015)

Then the solution is simple:  Ditch this body, buy a new D4s and keep track of every shutter click!


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## DB_Cro (Dec 5, 2015)

You're not using a few more bodies that you forgot about?  

This is seriously strange. We can kill/reset the count on filenames in our cameras but I'd be worried
if the total count was somehow lost or easily editable. Any of the software that comes with the camera
in the box maybe able to read the shutter count? Canon haz it.


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## DB_Cro (Dec 5, 2015)

tirediron said:


> Then the solution is simple:  Ditch this body, buy a new D4s and keep track of every shutter click!



Same issue on that one, but the announced D5 in development has that bug sorted out though.


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## MSnowy (Dec 5, 2015)

tirediron said:


> Then the solution is simple:  Ditch this body, buy a new D4s and keep track of every shutter click!



Ha Ha I just got a another d3s with 3500 clicks for a great price, That what's got me wondering about accuracy of shutter counters


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## DB_Cro (Dec 5, 2015)

Oh great. He has two. I'm gonna go shoot myself in the foot.


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## astroNikon (Dec 5, 2015)

DB_Cro said:


> Oh great. He has two. I'm gonna go shoot myself in the foot.


He has two, so he can take his shutter count and divide it by half now.

If you do shoot yourself in the foot, don't forget to take a picture of it.  Just don't share it here


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## DB_Cro (Dec 5, 2015)

astroNikon said:


> DB_Cro said:
> 
> 
> > Oh great. He has two. I'm gonna go shoot myself in the foot.
> ...



It's too dark in my room, I can't take the damn picture, I need a D3S! -.-


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## KmH (Dec 5, 2015)

Each Raw file has a Basic JPEG embedded in it that is used for display on the camera's rear LCD.
Lightroom uses that embedded JPEG for display for a short time until LR has had time to build the new Raw file previews.

So I would suggest the LR number is the inaccurate number relative to shutter actuations of the camera.


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## MSnowy (Dec 5, 2015)

DB_Cro said:


> You're not using a few more bodies that you forgot about?
> 
> This is seriously strange. We can kill/reset the count on filenames in our cameras but I'd be worried
> if the total count was somehow lost or easily editable. Any of the software that comes with the camera
> in the box maybe able to read the shutter count? Canon haz it.





KmH said:


> Each Raw file has a Basic JPEG embedded in it that is used for display on the camera's rear LCD.
> Lightroom uses that embedded JPEG for display for a short time until LR has had time to build the new Raw file previews.
> 
> So I would suggest the LR number is the inaccurate number relative to shutter actuations of the camera.



Ok. I went and checked the NEF files (pictures) in lightroom for one month. It was accurate 3964 (3 football games,one road race and a few birds). Not sure whats going on.


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## DB_Cro (Dec 6, 2015)

I, for example, can't get a shutter count on any of the web based apps. Just returns an error. (T2i).


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## 480sparky (Dec 6, 2015)

I don't think Canons record shutter clicks in the EXIF data.


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## DB_Cro (Dec 6, 2015)

480sparky said:


> I don't think Canons record shutter clicks in the EXIF data.



Yep.


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## WayneF (Dec 6, 2015)

I am Nikon, and don't know any details about what Canon might do, but the shutter count is in the Exif data. Of course, Exif data is not necessarily retained in many online images. And not all of the Exif data is necessarily retained by various image editors (Adobe) when they rewrite the file.

And note too, Shutter count is not in the Exif proper, but is instead in the Manufacturers section.  But the manufacturer can and does modify the format of this section from time to time.  This is why raw editors need revisions themselves, to match new cameras.

File numbering is meaningless regarding shutter count. We change folders or folder names and reset file numbering. Also movie video use may affect file numbering, but not shutter count. etc, etc.

Most Exif Viewers are several years old, and are essentially abandoned, that is, they have not been modified for years, and they can lose ability to show the manufacturers section, either at all or properly.  If your Exif viewer is older than your camera, be very suspicious.

One Exif viewer  that does get constant revision attention is ExifTool, so it is easily the most reliable one, day and night, it seems to get a couple of revisions each month.    It is command line only, but some notes describing easy Windows GUI use of it  are at Camera Exif data


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## gsgary (Dec 6, 2015)

DB_Cro said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> > I can't see the point just shoot till it stops
> ...


I have bought secondhand Canon 1Dmk2's and never asked how many shots it had taken, one i bought was from an official Formula 1 photographer so it would have shot plenty and i never had 1 problem with it over 4 years


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## DB_Cro (Dec 6, 2015)

You can probably buy a new one when this one dies.. something not all of us can.

Just like buying a used car. 
Mileage is first thing that should be looked at.


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## gsgary (Dec 6, 2015)

DB_Cro said:


> You can probably buy a new one when this one dies.. something not all of us can.
> 
> Just like buying a used car.
> Mileage is first thing that should be looked at.


Thats rubbish about used car, I would rather have higher milage rep car thats been used on motorways than a lower mileage that has only been driven round town, my work car (Merc) has done nearly 200,000 miles and still runs like new always serviced at Merc dealers


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## 480sparky (Dec 6, 2015)

gsgary said:


> DB_Cro said:
> 
> 
> > You can probably buy a new one when this one dies.. something not all of us can.
> ...



Does the odometer tell you which?


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## gsgary (Dec 6, 2015)

Which ?


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## gsgary (Dec 6, 2015)

There's no point worrying about shutter count or you'll never use your camera


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## 480sparky (Dec 6, 2015)

gsgary said:


> Which ?



Either.  I've never seen an odo with "Miles driven by little old lady to church on Sunday:___________".


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## gsgary (Dec 6, 2015)

480sparky said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> > Which ?
> ...


Thats the last place I would want to drive to


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## gsgary (Dec 6, 2015)

Over here they advertise them as having 1 lady owner


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## desertrattm2r12 (Dec 27, 2015)

How many decisive moments in there? Jes' wonderin'.


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## Overread (Dec 27, 2015)

Camera shutter count lifespans are only a rough estimate endurance. Some cameras will fail well under the expected (and where they do its generally a warranty repair) and some will never seem to fail. The moving parts will take wear and tear with any use and when they eventually give out is going to vary. 

That said yes less shutter counts is generally superior to more when it comes to second hand dealing; the theory being that a camera with less wear and tear has potentially more of its lifespan ahead of it. Unlike cars camera sensors don't generally get regular service checks and replaced parts - the most is you might have the camera recalibrated and the sensor cleaned; otherwise the shutter will keep going with the very same parts it was made from until those parts fail. 

That said whilst there is a limit I'd say shutter count should be like keeper rate-  nice to know but not something to dominate your shooting otherwise you'll stop enjoying and start  counting the shutter clicks. 



desertrattm2r12 said:


> How many decisive moments in there? Jes' wonderin'.



I never know till I get back to the computer to check the results


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## MSnowy (Dec 27, 2015)

gsgary said:


> There's no point worrying about shutter count or you'll never use your camera



Im not worrying about using my camera. The reason I was checking was I purchased another Nikon D3s as a back up with 3400 actuations. I know the D3s I have the shutter count is way off.


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## gsgary (Dec 27, 2015)

I have a 1D, 2 1D mk2's and all of them have shot over 200,000 and still work but never get used now


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## JerryPH (Dec 27, 2015)

Not that it makes a difference here, but the D200 shutter is rated for 100,000 actuations.  My friend's had over 389,000, that was before Christmas... never been serviced either.

The shutter count is semi important at best, and is a good tool for negotiations when buying used cameras.  For some people, like me, that never buy anything used, I could not care less about shutter counts of any of my cameras.  I shoot them until I decide to upgrade.  None of my cameras has ever died.  Then again, I tend to use pro quality bodies. (D200, D700, D4)


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