# Does anyone know a good forum where grown-up photographers meet?



## Iron Flatline (Mar 22, 2010)

It has been decided to shut down the Nude/NSFW Forum, for no discernible reason. None was given either. As an active and long-term member of this community I am really crushed. It was an integral part of my work-flow, and I have found the members here were a valuable help in a final edit and pare-down. It was probably the  sub-forum with the most respectful and useful discourse. If the level of  exchange would be this thoughtful in the other  galleries or the main forums this site would be an even better place. 

I consider shutting down the nude forum a poor decision. I am saddened, I am mad, and I feel completely ignored and made  irrelevant. This is completely counter-intuitive to a community. At  least some discussion would have been nice, or a "heads up" to those of  us doing serious nude work. After several thousand posts to be simply  treated without any respect is disappointing.

I believe I will recuse myself from The Photo Forum. I have worked on  nothing but nudes over the last six months, and had very good  discussions here, none of them juvenile or inappropriate. I will be back occasionally (old surfing habits die hard after all these  years) and I am almost finished with my new website, to which I will  invite people here upon completion. But I think the time has come, it  has certainly been made clear that those of us who contribute steadily  are only community members at the will of a group whom we don't even  know. 

...but now I need to find a new place to go. Does anyone have any recommendations? I need to find a community that has a relationship to nudity and adult content that mirrors my own more closely.


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## table1349 (Mar 22, 2010)

photoSIG » Main

Yes it is a Canon site, but the group you seek is an good one. Canon Digital Photography Forums - Powered by vBulletin
You must log in to see that particular forum.  

Check out this one and see if it is to your liking.
http://www.dpchallenge.com/

Oh, and one more thing. Don't go just because of this.  Your knowledge and participation has been a valuable asset to the forum and the ones you help are not the ones that made this decision.


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## icassell (Mar 22, 2010)

I have always felt that some people go overboard to be overly critical on Photosig, but in general it is a good forum and, in general, I would rather have too-harsh critique than watered down critique.

Who made the decision here and why?  I didn't even realize that decision had been made.  Perhaps a moderator can explain the rationale?

I agree with gryphon -- I'd hate to see you leave TPF as you have been a valuable asset.


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## LahPhotographer (Mar 22, 2010)

Iron Flatline:
I am new here and only got to see a small part of your work on here and enjoyed it. I also now just looked at your flicker profile and see you do amazing work. I am deeply sad to see you go cause I could of learned a lot from someone like you. All my best and please think about going to deviantart also many wonderful nude work goes posted to there as well. Hope to see you there. -Lah


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## KmH (Mar 22, 2010)

I would suggest you take a look at www.photocamel.com but I have never participated in the glamor section of that site which is where the discuss nudes.


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## manicmike (Mar 22, 2010)

I just registered for photocamel under the username nillapoet. :thumbup: Looks pretty good so far.


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## NateS (Mar 22, 2010)

Interesting that it is having such an impact when that section has only even been here for a few months....maybe 6 months?  Amazing how something taken away that was added 6 months ago makes you leave, yet you didn't leave 8 months ago when that section wasn't here.

I hate to see you leave as I did enjoy some of your work (not all your stuff is nude), but if you feel that's best for you then I wish you good luck.  None of the other two sites I'm on allow nudity either so I can't recommend anywhere.


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## usayit (Mar 22, 2010)

Sorry to see you go Flatline...  it won't be the same with out you here.

PM me when you find a new home.


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## Overread (Mar 22, 2010)

For refrence here is the thread where the annoucment was made:
http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/people-photography/197960-no-nude-nsfw-photos-allowed.html

its not removal of the nudes section which Iron is riled about its the change to TPF rules that now prohibits the posting of any nude/NSFW images to the whole site. A move that I feel is rather confusing since we haven't had any (to my knowledge) outcry or major arugments/disputes at all and the nudes section itself was possibly one of the more friendly and informative areas on the site. 

As I say there removal of the section I could well understand as it does send a message about TPF content, however removal of all NSFW postings seems very harsh when there is apparently no great call from the community of TPF for such action to take place.


And for what its worth I'll add my voice to those asking you not to leave Iron!  Do please find other places to post and get feedback on your works, but don't forget us in the mean time.


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## usayit (Mar 22, 2010)

Yup.. I saw that thread but I have yet to read it.

I was one of the ones that voted against a separate forum as I think the TPF already had way too many forums; "NSFW" designation was good enough.    BUT  I didn't want a total ban on NSFW/Nude photos... after all what is the world of photography without a celebration of the beauty of all types. 

I hope the TPF staff reconsiders but I have to wonder if it was motivated by the revenue of the advertising associated here.


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## Josh66 (Mar 22, 2010)

NateS said:


> Interesting that it is having such an impact when that section has only even been here for a few months....maybe 6 months?  Amazing how something taken away that was added 6 months ago makes you leave, yet you didn't leave 8 months ago when that section wasn't here.



The 'NSFW' section was new, but nude photos were _always_ allowed - there just wasn't a dedicated section for it.  Now anything 'NSFW' is not allowed.

TPF is PG now.


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## Josh66 (Mar 22, 2010)

Overread said:


> As I say there removal of the section I could well understand as it does send a message about TPF content, however removal of all NSFW postings seems very harsh when there is apparently no great call from the community of TPF for such action to take place.



There are a lot of photography forums out there...  I think, with the new rules, TPF might be the only one I know of with a ban on nudes.  Not all of them have a dedicated sub-forum for it, but it is generally allowed on every other forum I know of.


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## usayit (Mar 22, 2010)

O|||||||O said:


> TPF is PG now.



I like to say "catering to the lowest common denominator"....  :er:


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## keith foster (Mar 22, 2010)

Iron, let me also say I really enjoyed all your posts and hope you don't decide to leave completely.  If you find a new home please let me know where it is so I can follow your work.

I am not in agreement with the TPF decision.  I like that the forum has had a wide range of styles and I think it is a mistake to begin to restrict this one.

The NSFW posts have generated a lot of interesting conversations and had a lot of beautiful pictures posted.


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## SoonerBJJ (Mar 22, 2010)

I can't say I'm really surprised when I look at where this forum has gone in just the short time I've been around.

This place belongs to newbies and teenagers who can't seem to find the search function. The forum is fortunate to have a few old timers that have stuck it out but it seems their numbers are dwindling as they leave for greener pastures.

"Look at my snapshots" and "I wanna be a wedding photog" threads dominate the front page of the most active room and it seems the best way to generate responses is to post really bad pics or ask repetitive questions.  The signal:noise ratio has been on a steady spiral.

Just my .02


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## Renol (Mar 22, 2010)

While I have become attached to this forum due to many of the people who post and comment, I have read and now seen how this site seems simply not interested in catering to its members or even keeping them apprised of things. 

While the newly enacted ban does not affect me directly, I liked seeing some of the images posted and especially the recent threads by Iron. Iron's works were all and always tasteful and extremely well done in my opinion. Seeing you go would be a loss to the community and to those still learning like myself.


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## Overread (Mar 22, 2010)

O|||||||O said:


> TPF is PG now.



which leaves me wondering where wildlife stands with all this 
I mean not just mating acts (where chances are I wouldn't even have thought of an NSFW sign at all - except possibly on mamalian mating sights - but moths and butterflies would be safe) but also more violent acts like hunting or the result of hunting. I know its not nudes, but if TPF is being taken toward a more PG rating this is possibly going to affect other content outside of nakied and semi-nakied artistic representation of the human body.


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## Josh66 (Mar 22, 2010)

I agree...  "Coming to a sticky near you", lol.


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## Overread (Mar 22, 2010)

SoonerBJJ said:


> I can't say I'm really surprised when I look at where this forum has gone in just the short time I've been around.
> 
> This place belongs to newbies and teenagers who can't seem to find the search function. The forum is fortunate to have a few old timers that have stuck it out but it seems their numbers are dwindling as they leave for greener pastures.
> 
> ...




What are you on about? 
Or rather what baring does this have on the discussion at hand? Yes TPF has a lot of new members, many of which are new to photography and outnumber the "old pros" but that has nothing to do with ages (most people entering into DSLR photography are not under 18 - infact most are well over that age) and nothing at all to do with the posting of NSFW images on the site


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## chammer (Mar 22, 2010)

its funny...i've been toying with supporting this site for a while now, but they've just made my decision for me. i will not, nor will i EVER, support a site which inhibits freedom of expression/speech.


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## Overread (Mar 22, 2010)

Also, whilst Chiller not posting has left this section quieter, what about the whole Darkside section: 
Dark Side Gallery - The Photo Forum - Photography Discussion Forum

Where does this new ruling leave that area since images posted there could often be far more impacting than the nudes presented on the site


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## Josh66 (Mar 22, 2010)

Now that you mention it, it'll be gone too soon.  Thanks Overread.


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## SoonerBJJ (Mar 22, 2010)

Overread said:


> What are you on about?
> Or rather what baring does this have on the discussion at hand? Yes TPF has a lot of new members, many of which are new to photography and outnumber the "old pros" but that has nothing to do with ages (most people entering into DSLR photography are not under 18 - infact most are well over that age) and nothing at all to do with the posting of NSFW images on the site


 
I think my point is quite relevant.  Admin is more interested in coddling kids than it is catering to the adults who comprise the majority of the productive membership.

That vast majority of activity takes place in the beginner room and a perusal of the front pages on any given day will illustrate my point about its content.


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## LahPhotographer (Mar 22, 2010)

I agree singling out a style of photography will only lead to other issues. The whole point of art is to be creative and not worry about if your work is going to be censored or not accepted. Then whats the point of these forums?


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## Josh66 (Mar 22, 2010)

LahPhotographer said:


> Then whats the point of these forums?



$$$


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## kezsaj (Mar 22, 2010)

There is this small forum just starting, and I'm sure the mods wont mind nudes, especially since nudes are a big part in photography and especially art. This is the link to it: *ImageAspect &bull; Index page (Tiny'ed for obvious reasons to some).  *From my knowledge I think only a couple of the members are below 18...and I only know of one, which probobly wouldn't go "OMG PORN" on that forum.

Edit, I guess it shows differently now. INB4BAN


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## NateS (Mar 22, 2010)

O|||||||O said:


> NateS said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting that it is having such an impact when that section has only even been here for a few months....maybe 6 months?  Amazing how something taken away that was added 6 months ago makes you leave, yet you didn't leave 8 months ago when that section wasn't here.
> ...



Yup I guess I misunderstood that.  I think it's ridiculous that NSFW is banned as a simple girl in a bikini is NSFW but not inappropriate for any age.

What they _should_ have done.....is make the NSFW section only available to paid membership members.  Then they can verify with the credit card that they pay for their membership with that they are of age.  NSFW not available to standard users....if you want it, you get the paid membership.  It would bring site revenue up, it would give everybody what they want, it would sensor it for younger children.....everybody wins?  Maybe the administration should consider this idea.


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## LahPhotographer (Mar 22, 2010)

O|||||||O said:


> LahPhotographer said:
> 
> 
> > Then whats the point of these forums?
> ...


 Then its all about the money?


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## SoonerBJJ (Mar 22, 2010)

O|||||||O said:


> LahPhotographer said:
> 
> 
> > Then whats the point of these forums?
> ...


 
Perhaps the teenage membership can fill the void from members who choose not to support or stop their support after this move.


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## kezsaj (Mar 22, 2010)

LahPhotographer said:


> O|||||||O said:
> 
> 
> > LahPhotographer said:
> ...


Yes, and that is the reason why it drove many members out of here.


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## Overread (Mar 22, 2010)

SoonerBJJ said:


> I think my point is quite relevant.  Admin is more interested in coddling kids than it is catering to the adults who comprise the majority of the productive membership.
> 
> That vast majority of activity takes place in the beginner room and a perusal of the front pages on any given day will illustrate my point about its content.



but you are making a false connection there that those who post in the beginners section are young or immature. As I said whilst many are beginners that does not mean the same that they are all under 18 years old.
Furthermore I've yet to see any of them openly complaining regarding the content of NSFW images on the site - and the Nudes section itself was turining into a valuble resource for new photographers looking to improve their studio works. 



LahPhotographer said:


> I agree singling out a style of photography will only lead to other issues. The whole point of art is to be creative and not worry about if your work is going to be censored or not accepted. Then whats the point of these forums?



I am on boards where there is a restriction on the content, where often only a few forms or areas of photography are allowed - however in all those cases the forum has a clear objective and focus toward those areas and such is the case from the forums first moments. TPF however has always been one of the catch all forums - a fantastic thing to be a member of for it shows one and brings together a lot of different kinds of photographer. If we are going to start restricting that aspect we risk damaging the great resource and communty that has been built up till now.


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## Harris (Mar 22, 2010)

I'm sorry, but I'm against censorship in any manner - that being said, an artistic nude can't be shown, but a photograph (staged of course) of a woman hanging herself is politically correct/advertising approved?  BTW - although not my cup 'o tea, nothing wrong with either style of photography - wasn't trying to call anyone out or degrade anyones work.

I see the number of sections here being dramatically reduced in the near future......


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## Josh66 (Mar 22, 2010)

LahPhotographer said:


> O|||||||O said:
> 
> 
> > LahPhotographer said:
> ...


Yes.



SoonerBJJ said:


> O|||||||O said:
> 
> 
> > LahPhotographer said:
> ...



Monetarily, yes they will probably fill the void for the next year or possibly two.  What happens when all of the knowledge is gone though?  You can't buy that.


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## NateS (Mar 22, 2010)

I don't think people realize that this will kill a lot more than just nudes or nearly naked.

Remember Chiller?  If he were still here this would basically throw him out as all his stuff, while incredible, was definitely NSFW.  Luckily he has moved to one of the other forums that I'm also on so I still get to see his stuff.


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## LahPhotographer (Mar 22, 2010)

Overread said:


> SoonerBJJ said:
> 
> 
> > I think my point is quite relevant. Admin is more interested in coddling kids than it is catering to the adults who comprise the majority of the productive membership.
> ...


 and I agree with that. i think it should be done in good taste of course....that was what i ment.


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## Overread (Mar 22, 2010)

NateS said:


> I don't think people realize that this will kill a lot more than just nudes or nearly naked.
> 
> Remember Chiller?  If he were still here this would basically throw him out as all his stuff, while incredible, was definitely NSFW.  Luckily he has moved to one of the other forums that I'm also on so I still get to see his stuff.



Take a look at the last page - even wildlife could be under threat with acts of hunting, feeding and mating if TPF is being taken in a more direct PG direction.


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## LahPhotographer (Mar 22, 2010)

kezsaj said:


> LahPhotographer said:
> 
> 
> > O|||||||O said:
> ...


 :thumbdown:


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## jackieclayton (Mar 22, 2010)

Iron... I am such a fan of your work.  Let me know what forum you decide on, I will definitely have to follow....


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## Josh66 (Mar 22, 2010)

Yeah, PM me when you settle in.


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## jackieclayton (Mar 22, 2010)

NateS said:


> Interesting that it is having such an impact when that section has only even been here for a few months....maybe 6 months? Amazing how something taken away that was added 6 months ago makes you leave, yet you didn't leave 8 months ago when that section wasn't here.
> 
> I hate to see you leave as I did enjoy some of your work (not all your stuff is nude), but if you feel that's best for you then I wish you good luck. None of the other two sites I'm on allow nudity either so I can't recommend anywhere.


 
actually it was always allowed on TPF, it was just requested about 6 months ago to put it under its own subforum.  It used to be just blended in with the people photography but made sense to classify it out and have its own group.


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## NateS (Mar 22, 2010)

jackieclayton said:


> NateS said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting that it is having such an impact when that section has only even been here for a few months....maybe 6 months? Amazing how something taken away that was added 6 months ago makes you leave, yet you didn't leave 8 months ago when that section wasn't here.
> ...



I guess you didn't see my followup post, but I had already said that I misunderstood.


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## jackieclayton (Mar 22, 2010)

my bad, nate... i didn't read all the posts before replying.


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## NateS (Mar 22, 2010)

jackieclayton said:


> my bad, nate... i didn't read all the posts before replying.



no problem...I clearly didn't read the new NSFW not allowed post that well....


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## Joves (Mar 22, 2010)

KmH said:


> I would suggest you take a look at www.photocamel.com but I have never participated in the glamor section of that site which is where the discuss nudes.


 
 I also suggest the camel. You have to request entry into the nude sections, which is only a matter of verifying your age. The have glam/erotic and kiss my camel which is more on adult side.


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## craig (Mar 23, 2010)

I am with Flatline. Later TPF!

I held on for 7 years. Have to say this is the straw that broke the camels back. 

I can write reams of paper on this site and it breaks my heart to log out. I wish the continuing members the best in their photographic journey. Admins... well...

I know how to get in touch with most of you folks. Anyone else can reach me at craig@craigblankphoto.com.

Love & Bass to all


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## thebeatles (Mar 23, 2010)

craig said:


> I am with Flatline. Later TPF!
> 
> I held on for 7 years. Have to say this is the straw that broke the camels back.
> 
> ...



Sucks to see you go Craig! 
I don't really know you, but I thought your threads were very informative and *hey*, you like fugazi! :thumbup:


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## chammer (Mar 23, 2010)

thanks for the link to photocamel. never heard of before, but did some browsing and i liked it so i registered.


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## Caffler (Mar 23, 2010)

i've not really been here long enough to get to know any of ye but it's always a sad moment when long-term members feel they are being slighted and ignored by a forum administration that seemingly hasn't realized that it is just these members who have made the forum what it is. as someone else said it always seems to be just about the spondulicks these days.
i'll be sorry to see ye go because i won't now have the chance to become acquainted with any of you.


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## bentcountershaft (Mar 23, 2010)

I signed up at the photocamel as well.  Hope to see some familiar faces there.


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## Mike_E (Mar 23, 2010)

bentcountershaft said:


> I signed up at the photocamel as well.  Hope to see some familiar faces there.



I've been there a while and like it.  A hint for anyone- if you're not really sure of something, research it a bit before posting over there.  They're not usually nasty and won't generally put up with anything that would require a *PACT* but they usually _do_ know their stuff if you know what I mean,


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## Mike30D (Mar 23, 2010)

You might try the forums over at Fred Miranda also: FM Forums

The nudes/glamour are grouped in with the People forum


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## FrankLamont (Mar 23, 2010)

> Take a look at the last page - even wildlife could be under threat with acts of hunting, feeding and mating if TPF is being taken in a more direct PG direction.


Yes - perhaps one of the photos shows a butterfly in a too-revealing position?

I blatantly disagree with this... if anything, have a nude/NSFW section only. If _anything_, make it only admissible through a PM, or a over 18 thing, whatever. The total ban? Ridiculous. I'm not a nude photographer, and rarely view these type of images. But to ban it completely is complete - frankly - idiocy.

It's disappointing to see Flatline and Craig leave. Personally, I won't leave... but activity on this forum might go down a little. I do hope they reconsider their course of action.


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## jackieclayton (Mar 23, 2010)

Joves said:


> KmH said:
> 
> 
> > I would suggest you take a look at www.photocamel.com but I have never participated in the glamor section of that site which is where the discuss nudes.
> ...



i just registered on Photocamel as well... seems like a pretty good site.  i have the same username as TPF...


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## keith foster (Mar 23, 2010)

I registered at PhotoCamel - Your Friendly Photo Forum as well.  My user name is Keithdewey3.
Look for me there.


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## fwellers (Mar 23, 2010)

chammer said:


> its funny...i've been toying with supporting this site for a while now, but they've just made my decision for me. i will not, nor will i EVER, support a site which inhibits freedom of expression/speech.



If I think about it, why would anybody consider supporting a corporate site ?
If a site gets the majority of it's income from ads and other corporate revenue, then the other supporters are just fluff.


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## chammer (Mar 23, 2010)

fwellers said:


> If I think about it, why would anybody consider supporting a corporate site ?
> If a site gets the majority of it's income from ads and other corporate revenue, then the other supporters are just fluff.



i like to support things i believe in, which goes for commercial things as well.


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## Overread (Mar 23, 2010)

I'll say this in hope that a few longer term members might catch it - but lets let the admin have one last chance to have their say on this - please - before we all jump ship to 50 different online forums dotted all around the net. TPF has a wonderfull core of members and it would be grealy saddening to see that core broken up and effectivly lost.

Give the admin one last chance for TPF - give the members and community (which is what we come back for far more than the admin ) one last standing chance. TPF (in my short time here) has had a very up and down history what with policy chances and site ownership changes, but its managed to hold on and rebuild after those. This however is appearing to be the most damaging hit its taken. 

So give the community one last fighting chance -


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## chammer (Mar 23, 2010)

oh, im not going anywhere, but i would like to establish my presence elsewhere just in case anything ever happens.


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## fwellers (Mar 23, 2010)

chammer said:


> fwellers said:
> 
> 
> > If I think about it, why would anybody consider supporting a corporate site ?
> ...



I wish I could get you to believe in me. Then I can ask for your support.


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## benhasajeep (Mar 23, 2010)

I hope that all that have said they are leaving maybe just take a break. Maybe come back in a month, 3 months, what ever. Just give it a break and after a time period just see if something has changed back. I have done that with several sites. About half of them eventually went back to what made me upset or came up with a work around. Obviously they did it for a reason. I did not read the post as I rarely go to that section. But I do understand the complaints about it being removed.  It seems without wide notice.

And if the site does not come back around. There will always be other forums to go to. The web is full of them.


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## Village Idiot (Mar 23, 2010)

LahPhotographer said:


> O|||||||O said:
> 
> 
> > LahPhotographer said:
> ...


 
The original owner sold the forum to some people that were experienced at running forums and wanted to learn about photography (learn about more $$$).

It never really got better and you see a dwindling management presence. It used to be that moderators would be seen posting all the time, but now you rarely see any unless they're reminding people to be civil.


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## chammer (Mar 23, 2010)

fwellers said:


> I wish I could get you to believe in me. Then I can ask for your support.



awww...i believe in you! my cc # is.... :greenpbl:


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## Village Idiot (Mar 23, 2010)

POTN.


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## gsgary (Mar 23, 2010)

Probably down to the God squad, i have seen on here people saying should have put NSFW when someone has a bikini on


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## fwellers (Mar 23, 2010)

chammer said:


> fwellers said:
> 
> 
> > I wish I could get you to believe in me. Then I can ask for your support.
> ...



Now you're talkin. That was too easy. Maybe I should start a forum.


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## Tappout (Mar 23, 2010)

Mike30D said:


> You might try the forums over at Fred Miranda also: FM Forums
> 
> The nudes/glamour are grouped in with the People forum



+1:thumbup:

Lots of professionals and fantastic C&C/Advice.


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## mdtusz (Mar 23, 2010)

I've only been here a little while (very short) but I've lost a bit of faith in this forum recently too. It's starting to look more and more like a paintballing forum I used to frequent. Photocamel seems to be where the migration is heading, but I think I may try out that imageaspect site. Looks small and personal. I like that.


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## gsgary (Mar 23, 2010)

This is a nice small forum but only if you have a sence of humour and thick skin, 2 great guys on there shoot nudes, Gil and Hoppy 
Links NSFW
Marie-Claude Bourbonnais

The witch


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## LBPhotog (Mar 23, 2010)

"The Witch" is an interesting shot, and the neatest use of a stripper pole (other than the intended use) I've ever seen!


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## SrBiscuit (Mar 23, 2010)

maybe i'll see you guys over at photocamel.

i'll keep my name.


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## inTempus (Mar 24, 2010)

You all are welcome to try out Kwanonians.com.


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## |)\/8 (Mar 24, 2010)

gryphonslair99 said:


> photoSIG » Main
> 
> Yes it is a Canon site, but the group you seek is an good one. Canon Digital Photography Forums - Powered by vBulletin
> You must log in to see that particular forum.
> ...



The Canon forum (POTN- Photography On The Net) is an excellent forum and has a Glamour/Nude forum made up of excellent photographers.  You have to be a member to access the GN forum and you have to have a minimum of 500 posts to post in that forum, but you can gain early access simply by communicating to one of the mods your desire to do so.

It seems that TPF could have done something similar instead of just forcing censorship on a beautiful part of our art.


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## wtdeane (Mar 24, 2010)

Sad no Mods have chimed-in.  Apparently this is an issue.

I for one, although a new member, am a bit concerned about the arbitrary decisions being made here.


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## Overread (Mar 24, 2010)

I have asked one of the mods, but he has yet to come back online to answer my pm. However I have the strong feeling that they are as in the dark about this as we are at present.


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## Village Idiot (Mar 26, 2010)

Overread said:


> I have asked one of the mods, but he has yet to come back online to answer my pm. However I have the strong feeling that they are as in the dark about this as we are at present.


 
And we probably won't see an admin until they remove another section. That's my guess anyways...


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## Chris of Arabia (Mar 26, 2010)

Overread said:


> I have asked one of the mods, but he has yet to come back online to answer my pm. However I have the strong feeling that they are as in the dark about this as we are at present.



Not sure who you're referring to Overread, but I've not received anything from you on this topic myself.


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## Battou (Mar 26, 2010)

KmH said:


> I would suggest you take a look at www.photocamel.com but I have never participated in the glamor section of that site which is where the discuss nudes.



photocamel is pretty communist, The people may be nice but the management I don't like, I got bitched at for having a link in my signature to Photo Lucidity. They flat out told me to remove it.


Iron, You could always come over to PL. We don't have the restriction about NSFW works, We just don't have a lot of people either.


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## Overread (Mar 26, 2010)

Well most communities don't like members linking to competition on their site. So I can well understand them not wanting you to link to your own photography forum in your signature. I just consider it bad manners to link to competition sites for anything other than a specific refrence to the other site (eg a thread or content where it is better for me to present the original source rather than try to rehash it into a post). 

As for mods I pestered Big Mike (he was online at the time) though dealing with a bad case of the flu meant that he's not been as active in recent times, but he had this to say:

"From what I've heard, it was a business decision, based partially on concerns by some sponsors. It seems to have been made by the owners, after discussion amongst themselves. (Mod team had no input)"

So it is as we did suspect was the case.


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## Darkhunter139 (Mar 26, 2010)

I cant blame them for pulling the section if sponsors were getting upset... 

I like these forums a lot and plan on staying


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## Kristov (Mar 26, 2010)

I wouldn't jump ship just yet. The NSFW section is not deleted, just hidden. If you posted there, look at your previous posts and whatnot, the area still exists. 

For those that are lazy...  
NSFW/Nude Photos - The Photo Forum - Photography Discussion Forum


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## Overread (Mar 26, 2010)

hahahah neat find Kristov!
Kind of makes one wonder - as its hidden and all - can we still use it ? ?? ??


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## ghpham (Mar 26, 2010)

Since you just provided the link, it is now no longer "hidden".  The owners may just delete the whole thing soon.....


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## jbylake (Mar 26, 2010)

It seems to me, that about every three months, a group of people decide/threaten, whatever to jump ship.  I notice that a lot of them are usually back within a week to a month.

Some issue is always going to piss someone off, I suppose.

I don't always agree with everything that goes on here.  Rules? Well some people get away with breaking rules that others don't.  I've reported a serious spam problem not to mention posted in the wrong category to boot.  Nothing done.  I guess these people know somebody that owns the forum.  I know if I did it, I'd at least get slapped around a little in a PM or something.

I guess the bottom line is, that people own this site, other than me.  Freedom of Speech (if that's how you see it) or censorship is not gauranteed in a privately owned forum.  Hell, it's not even protected in the U.S. anymore, where it's "protected" in the Constitution.

I agree with Iron's origional PM, but no matter how long you've been a member, or a contributing member ($$) for that matter, it's still the managements perogitive to do whatever the heck they want.  I've learned to live with this, on all kinds of forums, from Harley Davidson/Custom Bike forums to photo forums.

Sure, I hate to see the most talented, and generally most helpful people bow out.  I'm a hobbyiest, and have been since circa 1977.  I'm still learning from people here, some probably half my age, all the time, but much more advanced, or formally educated in photography, than myself.

But, if you gotta go, you gotta go. Hate to see you leave, as well as others that have been mentioned that they're leaving also.  No reason for a big deal over it, just say your goodbyes, if you need too, and go.

Lastly, one thread mentioned the posters disdain for the "newbies" in the beginners forum.  So what? That's what the beginners forum is all about. And kindly enough, very seasoned pro's/advanced photographers are almost always willing to help.  But back to the newbies in the beginners forum, well, were you born with a camera sticking out of your ass?  Who did you go to for help, or if you were new again, would your post your question in the for sale thread?  I also see this arrogant high handeness here all the time too.

I don't think there is a utopian site anywhere out there that caters to everyone's taste.  That's why I still visit here often, but also frequent other photography sites.

Have fun, and best to all of you that are leaving for good, and greener pastures, hope you find, after a cooling off period, that you might want to come back every now and then.  The "newbies" need you.

J.:mrgreen:


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## Joves (Mar 26, 2010)

Kristov said:


> I wouldn't jump ship just yet. The NSFW section is not deleted, just hidden. If you posted there, look at your previous posts and whatnot, the area still exists.
> 
> For those that are lazy...
> NSFW/Nude Photos - The Photo Forum - Photography Discussion Forum


 
Also you cant post in there so essentially it is a dead area so useless.


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## Rick Waldroup (Mar 28, 2010)

I heard about this controversy on another site.  I have not posted here in many months.  I gave up out of frustration, as one poster pointed out, with all of the newbie questions, rants, and generally sophmoric threads.  

I finally pulled the plug on posting a lot here because there seemed to be so many members here with very little quality content.  Oh, there were a few really good photographers, but they were far and few between.  And now this.

I used to belong to a forum called The Nikon Cafe.  The same thing happened there.  In the early days, there was a nude forum.  Everything was fine until several right wing Christian members complained about the forum.  A huge debate took place between the mods and the members and eventually the nude forum was deleted, to make "The Cafe a more family friendly place."  In reality, what it did, was turn the place into a vanilla, boring, bunch of bird and bug shooters filled with newbies and their endless quest to be spoon fed information.

It appears that is what is happening here.  When I left here a few months ago, I could not quite put my finger on exactly why I was leaving but it was just a feeling that the place was headed down a one way street to mediocrity.  And I have been a member on forums where that street is nothing but a dead end.

Good luck to all of you here.


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## Dmitri (Mar 28, 2010)

Sadly, this is what happens when owners change from someone who loves the forum they created, to someone who looks at the bottom line. The art goes out and the "business" comes in.

On that note, Photocamel is great and I have heard good things about Fred Mirandas forums but haven't been there myself.


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## c.cloudwalker (Mar 28, 2010)

Dmitri said:


> Sadly, this is what happens when owners change from someone who loves the forum they created, to someone who looks at the bottom line. The art goes out and the "business" comes in.



Why don't you start a forum and let us know in a few months how it feels to spend a awful lot of time on not shooting photos for zero money...

Or ask inTempus about it. Seems to me he doesn't even have his own forum in his sig anymore.

Or ask Manaheim about his. He can't have his in his sig because some members there were obnoxious here.

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't really disagree with you but I think I'm more realistic than you are. A forum that is not for profit can and will take as much time and dedication as the subject of said forum. I don't know about you but I sure as hell wouldn't spend that much time and energy on something with so few rewards. I'd rather spend my time and energy on creating than on running a forum...

So, some people left here for there. So what? Quite a few members of the there are here regularly (including its creator.) Doesn't that tell you something? There is slow, has not a single pro member and very few who really know what they are doing. How long before some of those people who left are back here?


To get back to the subject of this thread, yes, I find the No NSFW rule weird as nudes are a big part of the photo experience. Just as they are of the art experience in general. But we are talking about a very small percentage of threads. Not to mention that if most posts were good, helpful, and serious some were obviously from horny teenagers. Yes, they can find much better porn with a few clicks of the mouse but obviously, some don't know that and frankly I found those posts extremely annoying.

I would never have banned the NSFW stuff for that reason but, then again, I am against any kind of censorship. However, some people need to grow up and, maybe, you should get pissed at them rather than the owners of this place.

Food for thought.


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## Overread (Mar 28, 2010)

Cloud its not just that the NSFW section and ability to post those images was removed and its not really because its a site that is run for profit over a site run for just fun. 

The reason many are feeling scorned by this is because many are trying to build up a community here. The problem is however, if the administration make choices that affect a great or a proprtion of that population without consultation or explination (remember even the moderators were left out of the dicision making process) then the membership feels greatly insulted. Furthermore those within the community who are trying to build it up feel like their efforts are going to waste because at any point the admin might shut down or change something that again affects a proportion of the membership without informing them or dicussing things with them

That I think is why so many have reacted the way they are - its not just that nude are banned but that it shows that we the members are not considered important at all


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## c.cloudwalker (Mar 28, 2010)

When was the last time you saw a business ask its employees what they thought of changes to come?

There are some but they are rare. Most of them just post a notice (if they even bother) and you deal with it. As far as I'm concerned this is the same.

How I feel about it and what I would do in such a case means absolutely nothing as I am not the owner. All I know is that you decide to deal with it or not. No one forces you to stick around.

You can go to another forum and feel happy for a while until you realize how sh*tty it truly is. You can never post on a forum again. You can do whatever you want but it makes no difference. You are not in charge!

There is only one way you can be in charge, start your own forum. But, then, come back in a few months and tell us how you are enjoying it.

If it was that easy, we would have some great forums. We don't! What does that mean?


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## Overread (Mar 28, 2010)

Actualy most of the forums I am on take a different view (and serveral are very much run as a business). An employer has you caught because you have to work or you don't get paid, whilst most businesses also have customers stuck because they provide a service that they can't get anywhere else - or that is only availble from a few others (most of which are doing the same things anyway). Rather like how if canon annoy you you jump to nikon and if they annoy you - well you lump it  or wait for sony to catch up 

Forums though don't offer quite the same since - as you say - you can go elsewhere. So its in the best interests of those running the forum to at least consider their membership.


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## Dmitri (Mar 28, 2010)

c.cloudwalker said:


> Dmitri said:
> 
> 
> > Sadly, this is what happens when owners change from someone who loves the forum they created, to someone who looks at the bottom line. The art goes out and the "business" comes in.
> ...



Not really food for thought because you completely misunderstood my post and, surprise surprise, got snotty about it. No one says that people who run a forum can't, or shouldn't, make money from it. But when a forum goes from an owner who loves the subject (in this case, photography) to a owners who know and care nothing about the subject and only the profit - that's when you get the silliness that we've seen the past few months.

But I have a feeling you don't care - you just like to be rude.


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## c.cloudwalker (Mar 28, 2010)

Overread said:


> Actualy most of the forums I am on take a different view (and serveral are very much run as a business). An employer has you caught because you have to work or you don't get paid, whilst most businesses also have customers stuck because they provide a service that they can't get anywhere else - or that is only availble from a few others (most of which are doing the same things anyway). Rather like how if canon annoy you you jump to nikon and if they annoy you - well you lump it  or wait for sony to catch up
> 
> Forums though don't offer quite the same since - as you say - you can go elsewhere. So its in the best interests of those running the forum to at least consider their membership.



An employer does not have you caught in anything. Nothing can stop you from changing job and, until a little while back, it was the way of it here in the US. Businesses on the other hand, for the most part, do not offer anything that is not offered somewhere else. I say "for the most part" because I didn't have a real photo store in the town where I lived. But it didn't keep me from going on the web...

If you don't like Canon, yes, you can jump to Nikon. At a cost, though,  because no matter how much lenses retain their value, they don't retain 100% of their value. Switch brand and it's going to cost you.

Do you really think forums don't consider their membership? They are businesses. Of course they consider it. And they make their decisions based on that. No matter how you or I understand it.




Dmitri said:


> c.cloudwalker said:
> 
> 
> > Dmitri said:
> ...



And you misunderstood mine... Yes I like being rude. I make a life out of it. :lmao:


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## Kristov (Mar 28, 2010)

Rick Waldroup said:


> I gave up out of frustration, as one poster pointed out, with all of the newbie questions, rants, and generally sophmoric threads.
> 
> I finally pulled the plug on posting a lot here because there seemed to be so many members here with very little quality content.  Oh, there were a few really good photographers, but they were far and few between.  And now this.



So basically, asking questions that are considered common knowledge (to those that have been around awhile) is bad? While I generally look in my books, or google, asking more knowledgeable people is a bad thing? I get you don't like being bothered, but to leave a site because of people asking questions that you think are too easy, speaks volumes. 

I personally think asking questions is a good thing, no matter how mundane they are. If it has been asked, politely post a thread of the same question, or ignore it. 

I don't mean to sound rude (I really don't) but your post while honest, looks to me like somebody who only wants help from people, and is not willing to help. You were a newbie at one point, and out of curiosity, who did you ask for your questions?


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## Mike_E (Mar 29, 2010)

Will the one last to gnash their teeth please turn out the lights?

Do,
         or don't.

But do get on with it!

mike


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## jbylake (Mar 29, 2010)

Kristov said:


> Rick Waldroup said:
> 
> 
> > I gave up out of frustration, as one poster pointed out, with all of the newbie questions, rants, and generally sophmoric threads.
> ...


 
That's a very polite way of stating what I already said in an earlier post in this thread. I wish the arrogant stooges WOULD leave. There is a "beginners" thread in the forum. Some of these arrogant jerks, such as the one you quoted think that they were born with a camera sticking out of their ass. Apparently they suffer from either short or long term memory loss. They forget that they were new to photography once, or are so arrogant that they won't even admit to that. I wonder if the Pro's/Advanced photographers that they had the "audacity" to ask a question of, thought of them as lesser forms of life. This site would be much better off without them than with them. There are several threads in this forum that are suited towards more advanced and professionals. I'd suggest that they just start their own forum, and require that all members be at the professional level. That way they can just sit around and admire little anecdotal snips and posts of how great they, themselves are. Wouldn't be much else to do there, since they already have all the answers. This place sucks because of the arrogance of these types, and their worthless moaning about how many "noobs" bother them with questions. Personally, I don't understand their problem. If they do honestly believe they were born with a telephoto sticking out of their butts, why not just skip over "noob" questions, and possibly ask the site to start a thread named "arrogant, assnine, experts only." I'd love to read the posts in thay hypothetical thread.
*DISCLAIMER:* This reply is in no way directed to the great many professional or highly advance photographers, who graciously give thier time and effort to help people new to the art of photography. There are a bunch of them here who are always more than friendly and kind enough to help a new person to the art/hobby/profession, of photography, and I think everyone involved are thrilled and grateful to have them, and do greatly appreciate their time and effort to share their knowledge with others.

J.:mrgreen:


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## Rocky8 (Mar 29, 2010)

Aha!

I came on board just now to see what all the fuss over here was all about. You see I recently saw an avalanche of new members on other photo boards that all came from here. They are ex-TPF members. They claimed, in a nutshell, that this place is dead and backhanded. So I wanted to come see for myself.

If first impressions  like this thread  are anything to go by this one, right here, doesn't look good.


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## Garbz (Mar 30, 2010)

Hello and welcome to TPF. Let me be the first to say layball:



			
				jbylake said:
			
		

> It seems to me, that about every three months, a group of people decide/threaten, whatever to jump ship. I notice that a lot of them are usually back within a week to a month.



As someone who has been here for many years, let me assure you that the dim witted crybabies who temporarily get upset at the internet are the ones who will likely return, however over the years this forum has lost a HUGE wealth of knowledge welcoming questions from newcomers, and replaced it with rude idiots who's soul goal seem to be to make this place as unfriendly as possible. 

A lot of people whose opinion was worth listening to have came and gone over the past few years and the forum has changed in tone with each high profile emigration.


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## jbylake (Mar 30, 2010)

Garbz said:


> Hello and welcome to TPF. Let me be the first to say layball:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, I agree 100%...I belong to many forums of different interest groups.
These forums always have a dynamic, rather than static evolution.
One theme that always seems apparent, is that the people who first frequented the site, those with 3 to 5 years, often seem to feel that the good old days, when they and a handful were regulars, were perfect, and seem to feel that as that forum grew, "their" turf was being invaded by "newbies".

A couple of sites I belong too, one in particular and not photography related is very much like that. Trouble is, "their" site remains static, because they treat new forumites like crap, causing them to leave immediately. However, their lack of growth makes for an extremely boring forum, in which, essentially, all they are doing is using it as a "meeting" place. Their numerous categories have posts that were last visited one or two years ago, so there is not much new content, and not worth reading over and over, and like I said, they are no longer a true Forum, but just a social gathering place where they like to pat each other on the back about the "good 'ol days, before the "invaders" came. They are static (those forums) with old content, and don't grow. The forum mods at one of these, can't understand why his forum hasn't grown. I suggested that he read the threads in his forum, where origional members have started a "boy's club" , old member's only, a sort of  "fanboy" club, where members just want to state how much they admire each others skills.

I actually read a paper published by someone doing their thesis on this exact same subject, and how the "dynamics" of forums and websites react, with a major emphasis on participants, or forumites, if you will, determine the sucsess/failure of the forum or website and blogs.

As much as I hate to see some of the people here go, most are really friendly and always willing to welcome a new member or someone new to photography, it's an inevitable result of the ebb and flow of the attitudes, and degree of participation, or lack of, of all members, not just the members with the longest longevity, that determine growth, popularity and success.

I see way too often, a real nasty disdain for "newbies" by a few members on this site. And I've seen a few new members to the site come and go quickly due to this. I personally haven't been a member for a full year yet, but as a commercial website owner, tend to pay attention to these trends, and I often read threads that I'm not even interested in, just to gauge the "feel" of it's membership and participation.

It's kind of interesting, but since this isn't my site, I just sort of watch it as a point of interest, as I have no control over any aspect of the site's policies and operation.

J.:mrgreen:


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## benhasajeep (Mar 30, 2010)

We need a button next to the Thank You button that says Jerk or something of the sorts.    And keep stats on who gets the most Jerks.  Since most people just let rude or unhelpful comments go right on by.  Maybe the "jerks" don't really know they are bothering others.   This way you can complain about a poster without getting into all the bs of wasted posts arguing.

I don't go to the beginner forum that often any more.  And it's not because of the repeated questions that have been answered a hundred times.  It's becuase of the self appointed post police that say search newbie and nothing else.  If you can give constructive advice, don't post!  Post counts as far as I know, doesn't count for jack.  So, why waste the key strokes??

I vote for a "JERK" button!

And if you don't like this idea, if we had a "Jerk" button you could give me one! :thumbup:


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## Overread (Mar 30, 2010)

We have a Jerk Button - we've had it for blooming ages but no one uses it.

It's this one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





click it and you get a one way chat line to the forum gods - deliver thy message unto them concerning the jerk and sit back and await rightfull justice.

It's far more effective than a +- thingy that most forums have (besides if we had one I'd want tobe bad cause bad get red thingies rather than green) and its not open to abuse either.


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## jbylake (Mar 30, 2010)

benhasajeep said:


> We need a button next to the Thank You button that says Jerk or something of the sorts.  And keep stats on who gets the most Jerks. Since most people just let rude or unhelpful comments go right on by. Maybe the "jerks" don't really know they are bothering others. This way you can complain about a poster without getting into all the bs of wasted posts arguing.
> 
> I don't go to the beginner forum that often any more. And it's not because of the repeated questions that have been answered a hundred times. It's becuase of the self appointed post police that say search newbie and nothing else. If you can give constructive advice, don't post! Post counts as far as I know, doesn't count for jack. So, why waste the key strokes??
> 
> ...


 
Hahahaha...I like that idea

But if there was one, it would turn into a retribution mechanisim, and would eventually fill every nook and cranny of the forum, eventually reaching the scale of a full blown thermo-nuclear war. The forum would eventually melt down. It would be, "I'm a Jerk?" "O.K., I'm going to "jerk you" on every thread I could find in the search function". Eventually, friends of the people who were "jerked" would begin "jerking" friends of friends of said "jerked" posters, until enough people were jerked-off the site, that eventual melt down would occur.

J.


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## benhasajeep (Mar 30, 2010)

Overread said:


> We have a Jerk Button - we've had it for blooming ages but no one uses it.
> 
> It's this one
> 
> ...


 
I know that button and have used it.  And no doubt probably used against me.  But that button does not show newbies or infrequent posters if a certain poster is full of bull, or not really there to help them out.  Maybe it should be a "BS'r" or "BULL" button.


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## Overread (Mar 30, 2010)

jbylake said:


> benhasajeep said:
> 
> 
> > We need a button next to the Thank You button that says Jerk or something of the sorts.  And keep stats on who gets the most Jerks. Since most people just let rude or unhelpful comments go right on by. Maybe the "jerks" don't really know they are bothering others. This way you can complain about a poster without getting into all the bs of wasted posts arguing.
> ...



From what I know of TPF history that is almost exactly what happend when they first had the mode. Vbulletin has a reputation mode as standard for giving + or - points. The problem is members often take them far more seriously than even post counts.


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## Big Mike (Mar 30, 2010)

> The problem is members often take them far more seriously than even post counts.


Not to mention that they would be more accurately called 'popularity points' rather than reputation points.  People started giving them to their friends & the popular people, and they became utterly meaningless.


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## benhasajeep (Mar 30, 2010)

Well the way the Thanks button is set up I don't think the Jerk button would be abused like the 'popularity' could be in the past.  But I do see that people could get together and bully someone by just clicking it for no reason.  But not too sure that would happen.  There are a few younger "acting" individuals on here.  But I don't think there are gangs of them though.  There are a few individuals on here that would have a very high count from honnest use.  If it would help anything the the long run, I have no clue.


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## Overread (Mar 30, 2010)

Big Mike said:


> > The problem is members often take them far more seriously than even post counts.
> 
> 
> Not to mention that they would be more accurately called 'popularity points' rather than reputation points.  People started giving them to their friends & the popular people, and they became utterly meaningless.



Yep that's pretty much the view of them in the one forum where I know them to be and to work. Heck they even have a "Give reputation to the person(s) above you" thread


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## Big Mike (Mar 30, 2010)

We have even toyed with the idea of hiding the post count, as that is/was a sign of false status.  I think it's a lot better since we started to not count posts in the off-topic and welcome sections.


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## Overread (Mar 30, 2010)

You can take my reputation but yea shall never have my postcount!!!!


But I do agree on cutting it from the spammy sections


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## Dmitri (Mar 30, 2010)

jbylake said:


> Hahahaha...I like that idea
> 
> But if there was one, it would turn into a retribution mechanisim, and would eventually fill every nook and cranny of the forum, eventually reaching the scale of a full blown thermo-nuclear war. The forum would eventually melt down. It would be, "I'm a Jerk?" "O.K., I'm going to "jerk you" on every thread I could find in the search function". Eventually, friends of the people who were "jerked" would begin "jerking" friends of friends of said "jerked" posters, until enough people were jerked-off the site, that eventual melt down would occur.



Sounds like a real jerk off :lmao:


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## jbylake (Mar 30, 2010)

Big Mike said:


> We have even toyed with the idea of hiding the post count, as that is/was a sign of false status. I think it's a lot better since we started to not count posts in the off-topic and welcome sections.


 
Maybe you might reinvestigate that, and getting rid of the "member since" tag under their name. Some people post here more in a month of membership, than many do over a year or two. My question is: where in the heck do they get the time to do all this posting, and photography also? Not to mention time consumed by working a job.

I really feel that it's a double edged sword. Seeing a lot of posts, substanial posts, scattered all over the forum, might well indicate that they are very active and knowledgeable, or really trying hard to learn from other forumites. Or are genuinely trying to share knowledge with those having less experience.

I truly believe, though, that it's more of a false "status" symbol, if a member has been here for 3 months and has 3,000+ posts.

If I got to flip a coin, I'd sacrifice the reputation for competence, over the "see how many posts I have, I'm the greatest thing since Adam Ansel".

Also, for the few arrogant asses who never pass up a chance to express how much "noobs" annoy them with their "sophomoric" posts, would be autonomous, and only judged by the content of their posts, not their post counts, or time here.

All persons would be autonomous, and only judged by the content of their posts. The BS'ers would be sniffed out quickly.

I get the feeling that many people judge posters validity and knowledge based on post count and number of posts. It's common practice on many forums, not just here.

I know a few "true pro's" who have said "I never visit forums". Given their skill level, I've wandered if they did join, had one post, and a "newbie" tag for status, if people would judge them as "newbie" to this forum, or "newbie" to photography. 

I've experienced this same thing myself. On a "film only" forum I belong to, I introduced myself, posted in a couple of threads, and asked a question about Medium Format camera's. The first response I got was that a "newbie" would be far better off learning the "basics" on a 35mm SLR, rather than trying to jump in to a niche that requires more than basic knowledge of photography. I really wasn't offended at all, but actually got a good hearty laugh.:lmao: I'm not a pro either, but I have been shooting and developing/printing film, seriously, since circa 1977. I think I've at the very least got the basics down, although I still get stumped once in a while. Oh well, you get the idea.

My guess is the latter, given this is the nature of a great many Forums of all sorts of interest groups.

Give it a try BigMike, at least for a short time. I think the only people that you would piss off, are the posers, and arrogant people. I think the greatest contributers here, who do have great longevity, experience, and a large post count, would care less.

J.:mrgreen:


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## Overread (Mar 30, 2010)

Honestly be honest with yourself - people who are going to be rude will be rude - unless you assess each and every member and have them under close watch you will have that problem in the site.
The correct method of dealing with such is first to correct their points in a polite manner in the thread - then if their attitude is offensive report the post to the moderation team. Try not to get into a fight (ie just ignor the rudness/rude member) and focus on the topic at hand - trying to get into a fight is pointless because the thread quickly falls into a who gets the last word race and the topic is quickly lost to a torrent of fighting posts. 

As for assigning weight to opinion that is something that everyone has to work out for themselves - its not easy (again with a set of standards, tests and review) to ensure that a member is capable of giving the correct advice on a particular subject.
Does this mean that false truthes and lies become told - yes it does - you either have to deal with that and hold your tongue or try to correct the matter at hand. 

As for the whole newb thing most new people partly bring it on themsevles by introducing themselves as a newb (rather than just a new member) whilst those who constantly mouth of about them - meh ignor and make your own welcome to the member and report the post.


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## manaheim (Mar 30, 2010)

Happy happy!


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## Rocky8 (Mar 30, 2010)

Overread said:


> Honestly be honest with yourself - people who are going to be rude will be rude - unless you assess each and every member and have them under close watch you will have that problem in the site.



Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. And so is gunk. What you consider 'rude' isn't in the next guy's opinion. Who has the right to apply his/her mores on someone else's opinion and/or lifestyle? _Nobody_ does! But there are an awful lot of people arrogantly and paternalistically appropriating that right for themselves. People that should do better to relax their gluteus maximus, learn to look elsewhere if they don't like what they see, and leave other people in their own right.


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## jbylake (Mar 30, 2010)

Overread said:


> Honestly be honest with yourself - people who are going to be rude will be rude - unless you assess each and every member and have them under close watch you will have that problem in the site.
> The correct method of dealing with such is first to correct their points in a polite manner in the thread - then if their attitude is offensive report the post to the moderation team. Try not to get into a fight (ie just ignor the rudness/rude member) and focus on the topic at hand - trying to get into a fight is pointless because the thread quickly falls into a who gets the last word race and the topic is quickly lost to a torrent of fighting posts.
> 
> As for assigning weight to opinion that is something that everyone has to work out for themselves - its not easy (again with a set of standards, tests and review) to ensure that a member is capable of giving the correct advice on a particular subject.
> ...


Heck Overread, that would just be too easy.....

J.


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## Formatted (Mar 31, 2010)

This thread needs more cats!


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## jbylake (Mar 31, 2010)

Formatted said:


> This thread needs more cats!


Cool, maybe they'd eat the rats?

J.:mrgreen:


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## Rocky8 (Apr 2, 2010)

erose86 said:


> Rocky8 said:
> 
> 
> > Overread said:
> ...



My staying or leaving doesn't change the arrogant, paternalistic 'moderation' here one iota, erose. So I fail to see the connection.
Besides: I haven't found a way to UNregister yet. So I'm stuck with you and The Photo Forum. As you, and they, are stuck with me...


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## jbylake (Apr 2, 2010)

Rocky8 said:


> erose86 said:
> 
> 
> > Rocky8 said:
> ...


Don't think the arrogance problem is with the mod's, I think it's more with certain individual forumites.  You've been here a week or so, and are going to make that kind of assumption?  Oh well, send a PM to one of the mod's, they'd probably be able to "unregister you".

J.


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## Rocky8 (Apr 2, 2010)

Big Mike said:


> We have even toyed with the idea of hiding the post count, as that is/was a sign of false status. I think it's a lot better since we started to not count posts in the off-topic and welcome sections.



Post count says _nothing_: if someone gets banned again and again and registers again and again under new handles his/her post count starts everytime from #1 and will never get over a couple dozen before he/she gets banned again. I know a guy who was banned between 70 and 100 times from a board, but he kept coming back and now, after _years_, he has ratcheted up a total post count of well over 10,000 on that board...

BTW, the mods there finally gave up banning the guy, since that had proven to be a futile exercise. They couldn't get rid of him, however hard they had tried. It became the running gag of the forum. Everybody saw the mods' impotence to silence the dissident, it was hilarious. Everybody but the mods. Typically it took _them_ years before that reality sank in...


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## RyanLilly (Apr 2, 2010)

I know a guy who caught a fish that was "This Big"!


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## RyanLilly (Apr 2, 2010)

BTW, That was me being rude.


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## RyanLilly (Apr 2, 2010)

Damn, BigMike and Overread have been thanked over 100 times each. People must hate me, I've only been thanked 3 times!

...All I can do now is try and bolster my post count.


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## sojourn (Apr 6, 2010)

You are bound to find that each new wave of new members will have a number of illiterate, untalented and entitled people sweeping in...that is just where our society is going. You will also find nasty, boorish people in every forum. It's nothing new.

'Tis a pity that some find dealing with new members a bother...being a new member myself, who has racked up quite a few posts in a short amount of time because I am trying to learn everything I can in a short amount of time about a hobby I enjoy immensly. 

I would like to even discover if I could make some money at it, but--just like my other myriad talents--I mainly seek to be the best at what I do.

I have been on some very tough forums, not photography ones, but others where you'd better have a tough hide and a good comeback. Some relish being the bullies and assholes but I found it better to be sweet and subtle...you can really trash someone with panache if you know how to do it right, but why, oh why would you want to do that here? 

I hope enough of you knowledgeable ones stick around to help out the 'n00bs' that truly have a love for the craft. We're out there and we do care.


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## jauburn (Jun 11, 2011)

Iron Flatline said:


> ...but now I need to find a new place to go. Does anyone have any recommendations? I need to find a community that has a relationship to nudity and adult content that mirrors my own more closely.



Photocamel has the best erotic forum on the net, currently, in my opinion. There's a dedicated erotic gallery there, too, and contests. There's also a "kiss my camel" board there with more risque stuff.

You have to request entry by following the directions here:

Glamour / Erotic


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