# Hovering Parents



## celticwhim (Nov 11, 2013)

I have been taking photographs for years but recently started my own business. I offer stylized themed sessions and children and family portraiture. The biggest problem I have been having with my clients is hovering parents! They are driving me crazy! I have had moms taking pictures over my head with their iPhone WHILE I AM SHOOTING their children, moms constantly second guessing my photography skills during the shoot and asking to "see the picture to make sure it came out ok", moms telling their kids to sit still don't move and say cheese, therefore ruining my natural emotion shots every time, and not trusting my judgement for poses and lighting! I am fed up! The kids never do anything but what they were conditioned to do in front of a camera from a very early age, which is sit still and fake smile, while their parents are hovering over them. How do I nicely tell the parents to give me some space without offending them or making them mad? The cutest shots I get are always when there are no parents, or the parents are off aways doing something else. Also, it seems like every time I change a setting on my camera, check my light meter or fiddle with the lens my clients get nervous and start second guessing and asking stupid questions, does anyone else have this problem or did I just get some overbearing people? And for the record, all the parents have loved the pictures after they have seen them after the session.

Celtic


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## Derrel (Nov 11, 2013)

This is an issue, and it's very real. A pre-shoot consultation is ALWAYS needed. Parents are very often, responsible for ruining MANY shots. People MUST, as in MUST BE, instructed BEFORE the session, in private, and told that they need to look ahead, at you, or at the lens, and follow your direction, and must NOT "look at the baby" or "look at the kids". IMagine a group shoot where the mother is constantly looking to "see if baby is smiling"...so, in every shot, the mother f***s up the best shots, as she looks over to see if Kid # 1, or kid #2, or whomever, #2, has "the right kind of smile".

Similarly...people standing wayyyyyy off to the side and behind you can often ruin frames by distracting kids, and trying to "help you out" by making goofy faces or whatever...you need to be forceful--before the  set begins-- and explain how normal attempts to "help out" are really detrimental.

You need skill and tact and practice, and some concrete examples. If youre new to the game of family portraiture, I would suggest making a few prints of really horrible examples of where parental and or spectator "efforts to help" have ruined otherwise perfect group shots, or shots of the kids. The "say cheese" brigade ruins many shots unless they are told how they must behave, in advance. It must be done BEFORE the session.

You need to be the ONE, as in *the ONE*, in control of the session. That is your job. If you run into the especially bitchy mom, you might use the phrase, "So can I come down to your workplace tomorrow and tell you how to work better?" It really shuts the young, 20-something smarter-than-thou mommies up, fast.


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## wyogirl (Nov 11, 2013)

I would make it a policy that no one can take pictures with their own camera while you are shooting, and let people know that up front.  I have told parents that they need to relax, and I explain that I get the best shots when the kids are allowed to do their thing.  I usually show a few of my shots from the camera back while I shoot just to make people feel good about the experience.  If parents insist on a pose, I ask them to let me pose the shot my way and then do "their shot" next that way they don't feel ignored but you have your shot as well.  Some people are just a pain in the arse and that is part of doing business with the public.

Good luck.


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## celticwhim (Nov 11, 2013)

I have been wanting to create a "Session Rules" handout for my clients and just haven't been able to get to it, but now I think it may be greatly needed. Thanks for the advice. It is nice to know that I am not the only one having these issues.


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## Derrel (Nov 11, 2013)

As for people "asking to see see the shots" during an active part of the session, WHILE you are actively shooting....uh, that's a big, empahatic, CB radio-style "_Chhhhk_, *negatory,good buddy!*" You definitely, definitely do NOT want to go down that road.

During a session, you need to be actively pre-selling. Telling the parents, "Oh, this will make a great wall pair, the shot of the girls and then one of you and your husband facing them, it'll look so nice," and also, "Oh, he looks so cute in this picture in his little _______ outfit!" and so on.

You again, need to explain how you're going to conduct almost ANY kind of a session, beforehand, so the adults understand exactly HOW you work, and what you have planned. This is the kind of thing it takes a lot of in the camera-room or in-the-field time to become familiar with.Here is a brief example: the "forced smiler dad". He's the guy whose mother always told him to say cheese, and he wears the SAME, practiced, ugly, stupid-looking smile in every frame fired in family snapshots and even casual cell phone pics. Do you know what you can tell him to make him more comfortable with the whole process? You can explain that, "NOT every single picture needs to have a big, toothy, cheesy *smile!* in it. We need to have some semi-serious ones, where everybody just tries to look at the camera and look happy and pleasant, without a big, big smile. Too many big, fake-looking smiles look, well, fakey. We're going to make these photos today with a wide range of expressions, and I am going to tell you how to look. Please listen to ME, not the kids, not your wife, but me...I'm gonna set up each pose, and we'll shoot enough frames to get just the right "looks", so don't worry if one shot doesn't come out. This is the digital era...we can re-take a shot and keep taking it to get a couple different "looks" on each pose. This isn't 1975...you don't have to say "cheeeeese!" in each and every shot...we don't want that, in fact."

What you are doing is _overcoming the fears_ of the "forced smiler Dad", and also are telling his kids and or wife at the same time that THEY need to shut up, and allow you to control and lead the session. WIVES with husbands who have forced smiles often try to impose their will on their husband because they are, well, you know. You need to get out ahead of things, before the session begins. As to reviewing-on-demand-moms ....uhhhh...*negatory, good buddy*. The way to handle a control freak is to be an even MORE-controlling, assertive, professional photographer.

See, it's this kind of stuff that real photographers used to learn from one-to-one mentoring and apprenticeships...this is the kind of stuff you will not see in most books, or in on-line fake tutorials shot with models, pretending to be a 'family'.


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## celticwhim (Nov 11, 2013)

Yes, thank you so much for your input! I am currently half way through my degree in photography and they don't teach ANY of that stuff. Right now, in my Intermediate Photography course 75% of the semester has been all about how to make a book to put a few of our photographs in for our final project! This is not helping me in ANY way. I did not sign up for arts and crafts! This particular teacher doesn't even OWN a DSLR and has no idea how to use one or answer questions about them! She is all about hipster photography and medium format. I will NEVER use that again after this class! She should be an Alt Process teacher! It is very frustrating and I'm having to learn most everything, including Photoshop (I won't even go into THAT class) on the internet.


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## vintagesnaps (Nov 11, 2013)

My type of work (not photography related) has been working with infants & toddlers with delays _and_ with their parents/families. I found it usually helped to give parents a handout (and for this situation keep it brief) and go over it. If you can give reasons for the rules, that can help them understand why - such as that you need the child's attention on you and the camera to be able to get good pictures. 

Maybe is there something you can give them to do at least part of the time while you're taking pictures? especially to get the session going then they may see you're doing fine and they might relax. Could they fill out an order form, any paperwork for your files (that you can scan later) - not to make extra work for you but sometimes I've found that can help for them to be able to do a task or to help (in class it would be asking them to get out cups for snack etc.).

I think it helps to be clear before you even start and then refer them back to the handout/rules as needed - which maybe you could even post in the area where you take photos. If you don't have a waiting area that might be a thought, chairs where you want them to sit to be less distracting.


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## pgriz (Nov 11, 2013)

I deal with the public a lot (I own a contracting business), and the way to keep them out of your hair, is to run through (describe) a typical session PRIOR to the actual session, and identify for them when/where they can participate.  I also tell them that if they get involved with my workers outside of those points of interaction, we go on the clock and we will bill accordingly.  That usually keeps them out of the way.

My wife teaches pre-school art and she also has helicopter parents trying to "help".  They get escorted out the door and told that if they want to be around they can stand in the hall outside the art-room door and listen.  Once the kids realize they don't have to "play up" to their parent(s), most settle down really well.  If the parents REALLY want to participate, they are welcomed to help with the cleanup (washing hands, ungluing things that shouldn't have been glued, and so on).  It's kinda funny how fast the helicopters find a landing pad somewhere else.


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## gsgary (Nov 11, 2013)

If people get in my way when i'm working i just tell them to **** off somewhere else


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## terri (Nov 11, 2013)

gsgary said:


> If people get in my way when i'm working i just tell them to **** off somewhere else



Gary specializes in that heartfelt personal touch.    :sillysmi:


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## tirediron (Nov 11, 2013)

Easy... keep a couple of extra reflectors in the bag, and when you see them starting to go crazy, pause, shake your head a bit, look up at the sun, go hmmm... then, pull out a reflector (or two if both parents are going crazy) and tell them you're sorry to have ask, but the light isn't quite right, and could they pleas stand over here and hold this reflector like so.  People LOVE the idea of being able to help the pro.


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## tirediron (Nov 11, 2013)

terri said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> > If people get in my way when i'm working i just tell them to **** off somewhere else
> ...


  Huh?  When did he get one of those?????


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## IByte (Nov 11, 2013)

celticwhim said:


> Yes, thank you so much for your input! I am currently half way through my degree in photography and they don't teach ANY of that stuff. Right now, in my Intermediate Photography course 75% of the semester has been all about how to make a book to put a few of our photographs in for our final project! This is not helping me in ANY way. I did not sign up for arts and crafts! This particular teacher doesn't even OWN a DSLR and has no idea how to use one or answer questions about them! She is all about hipster photography and medium format. I will NEVER use that again after this class! She should be an Alt Process teacher! It is very frustrating and I'm having to learn most everything, including Photoshop (I won't even go into THAT class) on the internet.



That's where a business major/minor comes into play.

Photography classes only teaches photography I know some school make (or should) you take business or business electives.  Good luck.


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## IByte (Nov 11, 2013)

gsgary said:


> If people get in my way when i'm working i just tell them to **** off somewhere else



^^ Simple..to the point.  That's a "like" for ya good buddy.


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## Tailgunner (Nov 11, 2013)

tirediron said:


> Easy... keep a couple of extra reflectors in the bag, and when you see them starting to go crazy, pause, shake your head a bit, look up at the sun, go hmmm... then, pull out a reflector (or two if both parents are going crazy) and tell them you're sorry to have ask, but the light isn't quite right, and could they pleas stand over here and hold this reflector like so.  People LOVE the idea of being able to help the pro.



Haha...I'm going to remember this one if I ever taking up portrait work.


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## snowbear (Nov 11, 2013)

Welcome aboard.

Include an "aggravation fee" in the contract that you charge for those times.


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## bratkinson (Nov 12, 2013)

Fortunately, I never had to deal with kids in my career. I could just envision how I'd respond when they rub their jelly covered hands on the front of my f1.2 lens...

I think I'd use a combination of 'Dirty Harry' and 'The Godfather' to control the parents..."This is a 44 magnum...either you or your brains will be outside the door in 5 seconds..."

And THAT'S why I never had any kids!


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## mmaria (Nov 12, 2013)

Edited: deleted everything, too much wrong words


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