# Panasonic 12-35mm/f.2.8: Too early?



## MidEastGal

Hi,

I am wondering is it too early for me to invest in this lens as my first m43 experience on the GH3. And is it too early regarding high price and not much reviews with GH3. 

I was looking for a much more economic option (in other threads and online) for over 3 weeks now and seems I am hitting wall. This lens seems to have what I want all in one: fast(er) aperture, decent semi telephoto zoom, and wider zoom at 12. The other option is buying a collection of lenses. Still an option that's why I said aim just wondering. 

The closest cheaper lens I found in thisnrange is the Oly 12-60/f.2.8-4, but was advised against and I need adopter. 

Is it worth the value? Anybody used it on GH3? How is it for video? Any cons or pros from personal experience are much appreciated.


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## brunerww

I'm renting one this weekend. I'll compare it to my 4/3 lenses (Oly 11-22 f2.8-3.5 and Sigma 18-50 f2.8) and let you know how it goes.

But I already know the answer. If you can afford this lens ($967CDN from Japan via eBay Canada, or $1300CDN from Amazon Canada), buy it  

You won't need another lens for a long time.


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## usayit

MidEastGal said:


> I was looking for a much more economic option (in other threads and online) for over 3 weeks now and seems I am hitting wall. This lens seems to have what I want all in one: fast(er) aperture, decent semi telephoto zoom, and wider zoom at 12. The other option is buying a collection of lenses. Still an option that's why I said aim just wondering.



This is exactly why I doubt you'll find the price of the 12-35mm drop anytime soon.  If you need a fast high quality zoom that is native to micro 4/3, this is you one and only choice.

well.. other than finding on used.

If you compare it to the equivalent 24-70 fast zooms by first party manufacturers such as nikon and canon, the price is actually on target.



It is rumored that Olympus will release their own fast zoom... but since Olympus doesn't put IS in their lenses, you'll be at a disadvantage.   I have the 12-35 and 35-100 f/2.8 for use on an E-PL1 and OMD.  Quite happy but I haven't had much time to work them.  I'm primarily a prime lens shooter...  so those two are an alternative.


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## MidEastGal

brunerww said:


> I'm renting one this weekend. I'll compare it to my 4/3 lenses (Oly 11-22 f2.8-3.5 and Sigma 18-50 f2.8) and let you know how it goes.
> 
> But I already know the answer. If you can afford this lens ($967CDN from Japan via eBay Canada, or $1300CDN from Amazon Canada), buy it
> 
> You won't need another lens for a long time.



Brunerww, thank you. How amazing you are renting one! I asked in my local rental store and they don't rent any m43 lenses  I wish there is a rental that does in Edmonton. (Is there that I don't know of?)

So, I would probably have to stretch things out to afford it and that's why  I am asking if it is worth it and if it would make not need another lens in near future. I hate clutter and got so much distracted in last month looking at eBay and forums to search for most economic lenses and pros and cons... I get into details and forget the bigger picture.

I am really really looking forward to your review and feedback on the 12-35! Please share quick any videos and stills and, if any, major problems against it before I break my bank account  :hail: .....


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## MidEastGal

usayit said:


> MidEastGal said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was looking for a much more economic option (in other threads and online) for over 3 weeks now and seems I am hitting wall. This lens seems to have what I want all in one: fast(er) aperture, decent semi telephoto zoom, and wider zoom at 12. The other option is buying a collection of lenses. Still an option that's why I said aim just wondering.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is exactly why I doubt you'll find the price of the 12-35mm drop anytime soon.  If you need a fast high quality zoom that is native to micro 4/3, this is you one and only choice.
> 
> well.. other than finding on used.
> 
> If you compare it to the equivalent 24-70 fast zooms by first party manufacturers such as nikon and canon, the price is actually on target.
> 
> 
> 
> It is rumored that Olympus will release their own fast zoom... but since Olympus doesn't put IS in their lenses, you'll be at a disadvantage.   I have the 12-35 and 35-100 f/2.8 for use on an E-PL1 and OMD.  Quite happy but I haven't had much time to work them.  I'm primarily a prime lens shooter...  so those two are an alternative.
Click to expand...


Usayit, thanks for the informative reply, especially about price trends! Makes sens I guess. I will wait more reviews while I prepare my financial shock 

I think it is a side topic here, but just cuz u mentioned the word, what is your favorite prime? and is the quality from the 12-35 close (even a bit) to any of your prime lenses?


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## MidEastGal

I read somewhere that the 12-35/f.2.8 is great for stills (close to some primes) but the video is not as the aperture does not remain constant. Any comments on that? I did not find more details or verification of this lens' use with video and its fixed f2.8. And makes a very faint clicking noise (?) How true? :meh:

Note to Brunerww: Kindly keep an eye for these 2 problems when you rent yours this weekend


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## usayit

MidEastGal said:


> I think it is a side topic here, but just cuz u mentioned the word, what is your favorite prime? and is the quality from the 12-35 close (even a bit) to any of your prime lenses?



Most of the primes I shoot are with another system (Leica M).  Even when I was shooting with high quality Canon EOS lenses, I still preferred the primes (24L, 50 f/1.4, 85 f/1.8 and 135L) over my two fast zooms; 24-70L and 70-200L.  The choice between high quality zooms versus primes is really a personal one.... but I enjoy the faster aperture and subtle image quality advantages.   I've never been in a situation when a zoom offered the same experience, quality, and satisfaction as a good set of primes.


But..... it comes with a price... flexibility of the zoom.


Specific to micro 4/3, I have Panasonic 14mm, Panasonic 20mm f/1.7, and Olympus 45mm f/1.8.  The highest quality one is the Olympus 45mm f/1.8... absolutely stunning when used properly.   It is also my least used micro 4/3 prime.. simply because its a telephoto.   The one that gets the most use is the 14mm because I generally like shorter focal lengths although neither the fastest of primes nor the highest quality.   I'm now considering the Olympus 12mm f/2 as a replacement due to this.   20mm f/1.7 is a good all rounder.... but many are moving to the Panasonic 25mm f/1.4 Summilux with good things to say.    The advantage of primes on micro 4/3 is that they are so darn small and easy to pack/carry....  its great!  

Despite that, I still prefer primes my other (primary) camera system.   I have 3 kids now... life priorities have changed.  Its part of the reason why I don't shoot with Canon anymore... big.. bulky... heavy.   The reason for the purchase of the 12-35 and 35-100 is to see if those two keep me satisfied enough when I don't have room for a dedicated camera bag.  If so, I'll probably sell my micro 4/3 primes... and micro 4/3 will be all zooms as a pure convenience.


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## usayit

MidEastGal said:


> I read somewhere that the 12-35/f.2.8 is great for stills (close to some primes) but the video is not as the aperture does not remain constant. Any comments on that? I did not find more details or verification of this lens' use with video and its fixed f2.8. And makes a very faint clicking noise (?) How true? :meh:
> 
> Note to Brunerww: Kindly keep an eye for these 2 problems when you rent yours this weekend




no experience with video...  but I hear the Panasonic 14-140 is a favorite.   No idea how it stacks image quality wise against the 12-35.


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## MidEastGal

usayit said:


> MidEastGal said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is a side topic here, but just cuz u mentioned the word, what is your favorite prime? and is the quality from the 12-35 close (even a bit) to any of your prime lenses?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most of the primes I shoot are with another system (Leica M).  Even when I was shooting with high quality Canon EOS lenses, I still preferred the primes (24L, 50 f/1.4, 85 f/1.8 and 135L) over my two fast zooms; 24-70L and 70-200L.  The choice between high quality zooms versus primes is really a personal one.... but I enjoy the faster aperture and subtle image quality advantages.   I've never been in a situation when a zoom offered the same experience, quality, and satisfaction as a good set of primes.
> 
> 
> But..... it comes with a price... flexibility of the zoom.
> 
> 
> Specific to micro 4/3, I have Panasonic 14mm, Panasonic 20mm f/1.7, and Olympus 45mm f/1.8.  The highest quality one is the Olympus 45mm f/1.8... absolutely stunning when used properly.   It is also my least used micro 4/3 prime.. simply because its a telephoto.   The one that gets the most use is the 14mm because I generally like shorter focal lengths although neither the fastest of primes nor the highest quality.   I'm now considering the Olympus 12mm f/2 as a replacement due to this.   20mm f/1.7 is a good all rounder.... but many are moving to the Panasonic 25mm f/1.4 Summilux with good things to say.    The advantage of primes on micro 4/3 is that they are so darn small and easy to pack/carry....  its great!
> 
> Despite that, I still prefer primes my other (primary) camera system.   I have 3 kids now... life priorities have changed.  Its part of the reason why I don't shoot with Canon anymore... big.. bulky... heavy.   The reason for the purchase of the 12-35 and 35-100 is to see if those two keep me satisfied enough when I don't have room for a dedicated camera bag.  If so, I'll probably sell my micro 4/3 primes... and micro 4/3 will be all zooms as a pure convenience.
Click to expand...


Thank you so much for sharing your usage insight. So helpful! I actually love primes too (theoretically speaking as not used them yet). But was afraid of the restriction in zoom as a beginner on m43. I might still consider this as the starting option if the 12-35 (or other zooms) don't work out for me. I even looked at the voigtlander nokton 25mm f0.95 on ebay for around same price or bit less than the 12-35. Still on back of my mind. I also heard v good things about the Pan 25/1.4.  

The only thing I am sure about at this point s that I don't want to sacrifice quality or clutter lenses. I want one good lens, be it zoom or prime, that suits indoor interviews (with pr light or without in unplanned situations), and takes good stills in normal range (if I may use this term loosely).


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## MidEastGal

usayit said:


> MidEastGal said:
> 
> 
> 
> I read somewhere that the 12-35/f.2.8 is great for stills (close to some primes) but the video is not as the aperture does not remain constant. Any comments on that? I did not find more details or verification of this lens' use with video and its fixed f2.8. And makes a very faint clicking noise (?) How true? :meh:
> 
> Note to Brunerww: Kindly keep an eye for these 2 problems when you rent yours this weekend
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no experience with video...  but I hear the Panasonic 14-140 is a favorite.   No idea how it stacks image quality wise against the 12-35.
Click to expand...


Thanks. Yes, the 14-140 was my previous choice and I actually tried it for a couple days on GH2 before I return and get the GH3 body. I used it for trial interview setting at my work (where I'll be using it mostly) and it was not to my liking. I admit partly due to my inexperience but still too bad results in that room that was lit with decent amount of fluorescent plus daylight. If it was cheaper I would get it for hiking and wild life which I do often, but then I'll need another one for faster aperture and low-light. 

Here is an interesting (not so positive though) review I found on the 12-35: Panasonic LUMIX G X VARIO 12-35mm f/2.8 ASPH POWER OIS - Review / Test Report - Samples & Verdict The reviewer concludes "we are still not convinced that the lens is really worth its very high price tag although there's no doubt that most users can get perfectly happy with it".

This is a v good video review with comparisons: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-_4kmPbWWM

Edit: and this 12-35 shakiness thread http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...-shakiness-possible-lemon-Any-others-see-this


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## usayit

Of course I have different needs....

But

When I was a Canon shooter and I needed something relatively lightweight for long walks....  My preference would be the Canon 5d (my 1dMarkII was too heavy) + 24-105L f/4 (good range and quality) + 50mm f/1.4 in my pocket.  Often I would carry this combination without a bag.   Basically, relied on the zoom and switched to the 50mm once I went inside.

Now..

I walk around often with 1 camera + 35mm + 50mm and that's it.


The same can be applied with micro 4/3.   A bare OMD (no grip) + 12-50mm + 20mm f/1.7 can also be a good combination for someone on the go.


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## MidEastGal

Yes, I guess all comes down to personal needs and value of return.  I like your reasoning of weight and luggage, so important and often I forget about that.


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## MidEastGal

I am thinking aloud here by accumulating these links so don't shoot me: 

Short video on a town with GH3 and 12-35mm: [video=vimeo;57332403]http://vimeo.com/57332403[/video]


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## MidEastGal

Short travel piece made with GH3 and Pan 12-35mm: [video=vimeo;57284392]http://vimeo.com/57284392[/video]


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## MidEastGal

Here is a documentary made entirely with primes: http://vimeo.com/groups/panasonicgh3/videos/58740161 (Again, just really thinking aloud here.)


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## MidEastGal

This is a thread on jitter problem with 12-35mm: GH3 Strange Panasonic 12-35mm shakiness -- possible lemon? Any others see this? - Page 2


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## brunerww

I rented the 12-35 today and have taken a few shots with it.  Fabulous lens - quiet and fast.

I plan to shoot a side-by-side with an old Sigma 18-50 constant f2.8 lens for 4/3 to compare an "old" constant f2.8 lens with  a "new" constant f2.8.  The first thing that strikes me is the size difference.  The classic 4/3 lens is huge, by comparison.  The next thing that strikes me is the silence of the 12-35's autofocus motor.  You can't hear it at all - and it is near-instantaneous.  The Sigma, on the other hand, is clearly audible - and takes a second or more to lock focus.  Here are some size comparisons:

View attachment 37035

View attachment 37036

View attachment 37037



And here is a still image comparison:

Taken at f2.8, ISO 1600, focal length 34mm with the Sigma: 18-50




Taken at f2.8, ISO 1600, focal length 35mm with the Panasonic 12-35




In addition to its other advantages, if you zoom in on the tree in the background, you will see that the Panasonic lens is sharper and brighter.

On the jitter issue, I tilted the lens down, zoomed it all the way in, turned the OIS off, burned some incense and said a chant - and still couldn't see it at 100% (I don't plan to blow it up to 200%)   I'll post a full review video later.

After what I have seen so far, I plan to sell both the Sigma 18-50 f2.8 and the Olympus 11-22 f2.8-3.5 (and whatever else I need to sell) to buy this lens!  That eBay price is the lowest I've seen ($950US/$973CDN).

Hope this is helpful,

Bill


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## MidEastGal

brunerww said:


> I rented the 12-35 today and have taken a few shots with it.  Fabulous lens - quiet and fast.
> 
> I plan to shoot a side-by-side with an old Sigma 18-50 constant f2.8 lens for 4/3 to compare an "old" constant f2.8 lens with  a "new" constant f2.8.  The first thing that strikes me is the size difference.  The classic 4/3 lens is huge, by comparison.  The next thing that strikes me is the silence of the 12-35's autofocus motor.  You can't hear it at all - and it is near-instantaneous.  The Sigma, on the other hand, is clearly audible - and takes a second or more to lock focus.  Here are some size comparisons:
> 
> View attachment 37035
> 
> View attachment 37036
> 
> View attachment 37037
> 
> 
> 
> And here is a still image comparison:
> 
> Taken at f2.8, ISO 1600, focal length 34mm with the Sigma: 18-50
> 
> View attachment 37033
> 
> Taken at f2.8, ISO 1600, focal length 35mm with the Panasonic 12-35
> 
> View attachment 37034
> 
> 
> In addition to its other advantages, if you zoom in on the tree in the background, you will see that the Panasonic lens is sharper and brighter.
> 
> On the jitter issue, I tilted the lens down, zoomed it all the way in, turned the OIS off, burned some incense and said a chant - and still couldn't see it at 100% (I don't plan to blow it up to 200%)   I'll post a full review video later.
> 
> After what I have seen so far, I plan to sell both the Sigma 18-50 f2.8 and the Olympus 11-22 f2.8-3.5 (and whatever else I need to sell) to buy this lens!  That eBay price is the lowest I've seen ($950US/$973CDN).
> 
> Hope this is helpful,
> 
> Bill



Bill, this is amazing. Thank u so much for posting. I am really in need of confirmation as other forums advised against it. But I love the range and aperture. The size is so small in comparison! I am looking forward to ur video review, please do it quickly  Are u going to post sample video of AF? We have to counter those samples that show jitter  looking forward and really thanks as there r no rentals here for me to try hands on.... 

*EDIT 1:* Did you check the 2 links (thread and video) I posted above about the jitter? I wonder why is it some have it and some not. I asked the lady who made the Vimeo video called Morocco I posted above and she said she had no issues, but many others did. You think it's safe yet? And you think any difference in Japanese models? What about returns and warranty if it had jitter?

*EDIT 2: *This review was on Amazon's 12-35 page: "No lens is perfect, any zoom at the shorter end will be less sharp with less even sharpness across the field. If you need the ultimate sharpness (real estate advertising, architecture, landscapes etc) then the venerable 43 Olympus 12-60mm with m43 adapter and manual focusing is your cup of poison. For people who want to draw attention to a central subject these small imperfections are not deal breakers. The charts published on line show that the 12-35mm is almost as good as it gets (Lensrentals mounted on OM-D sample pics compared to Canon 24-70mm f2.8 on 5D MK III and MFT50 peak/average: Olympus 12mm f2 @f/2.8 1000/845, Panasonic 12-35mm f2.8 @12mm 875/710 [960/745 @f4], @35mm 865/760 [910/800 @f4], the complete list is more comprehensive)".

I was considering this Olympus at one point and was advised against it. I know with the Oly I'd loose OIS, but would be nice to see a comparison of both lenses? Is it really sharper that much for architecture details etc.. as this guy says?  

*EDIT 3:* Check this opinion I got from a videographer!!!! 
"I'm primarily a videographer and use m43 on the GH2 and AF100. I bought this lens (12-35) immediately once it became available.
It's an extremely good lens for video with few caveats. There is some noticeable aperture flicker if you zoom while recording (solution: don't do that unless you intend to cut the zoom). Electronic inertial focus ring makes markable, repeatable manual focus pulls impossible. Electronic iris is steppy, no smooth iris changes possible. Without the lens hood attached, I tend to get my ham fingers in frame at 12mm. The lens cap is particularly gaudy and the rounded tulip hood prevents me from placing the lens securely hood-down on a surface. I have never noticed the possibly OIS-induced shake linked above.
Benefits: reasonably fast aperture, decent zoom range, very compact size, good build, smooth mechanics; autofocus is exceptionally good for a stills lens while shooting video - silent and on the mark. Did I mention how compact it was? Image quality is outstanding - no "...for a zoom" qualifier necessary.
This is simply one of the vital lenses for a serious m43 video kit, IMO."

What do you think about these points?!


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## MidEastGal

As I cannot include 2 links in same post, here is another video review on Amazon that favors the Canon equivalent for less price: Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: Panasonic H-HS12035 LUMIX G X VARIO 12-35mm/F2.8 ASPH X Series Lens 

(?)


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## MidEastGal

Important, read the comments here: [video=vimeo;59358100]https://vimeo.com/59358100[/video]


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## brunerww

While I put together my 12-35 review, take a look at this amazing night video shot with the GH3 and the 12-35 (note the lack of moire on the shingles and other complex patterns):

[video=vimeo;60320591]http://vimeo.com/60320591[/video]


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## MidEastGal

Brunerww, this is amazing night video with the 12-35! I love it. But notice at around 0.46 there is shake (could be from his hand?) and also around 1.35 also some shake, and at the very end around 2.08 till end the cars look animated movement (is that an effect or an aperture issue or edit or hand...?). That also could me my laptop video card for HD if this was HD. What do u think?

Kindly have a look at the points I mentioned above. They split equally between highly positive and very negative and angry customers who contacted Panasonic and returned it. Please have a quick look at my posts above while you prepare your video review so you can include maybe some of them.


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## brunerww

Here's a picture of the Panasonic 12-35 f2.8 vs Sigma 18-50 f2.8 micro-jitter test setup with the 12-35 on the camera:

View attachment 37229

I shot 30 seconds on each lens at 35mm focal length, manual focus, OIS off on the Panasonic, with about 70 degrees of downward tilt:

Here are the results from one of the lenses:


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## brunerww

And from the other:






I will edit and post the full review in a few days (may take until the end of the week - have to go back to work )


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## EmilyRowland2013

brunerww said:


> I'm renting one this weekend. I'll compare it to my 4/3 lenses (Oly 11-22 f2.8-3.5 and Sigma 18-50 f2.8) and let you know how it goes.
> 
> But I already know the answer. If you can afford this lens ($967CDN from Japan via eBay Canada, or $1300CDN from Amazon Canada), buy it
> 
> You won't need another lens for a long time.



I agree...CDN from Japan is an exotic idea..It is durable and it's features are really impressive..specifically it is compact and light-weight as compared to others.It also shows an outrageous brightness over the defined  zoom range..


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## MidEastGal

Thanks Emily for your input. Yea it is amazing. We just want to make sure it is not a defective one as many have been having shakiness problems.


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## MidEastGal

brunerww said:


> Here's a picture of the Panasonic 12-35 f2.8 vs Sigma 18-50 f2.8 micro-jitter test setup with the 12-35 on the camera:
> 
> View attachment 37229
> 
> I shot 30 seconds on each lens at 35mm focal length, manual focus, OIS off on the Panasonic, with about 70 degrees of downward tilt:
> 
> Here are the results from one of the lenses:



Brunerww, thank you for sharing all your effort with us poor ones who don't have it for rent in their local store 

I seen the 2 videos you posted and shared them on other threads forums (hope u don't mind). I will wait your review eagerly. I am not buying this lens now until I am sure. Also, if we buy from Japan the return/exchange is going to be v hard and I think buyer's expense, right? I wish it was cheaper here. At London Drugs it's 1300. Pity as I like their return/exchange policy.


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## MidEastGal

There is heated debates on this lens all over. To sum up the most useful points I seen:

First, they advise anyone who has issue to go vocal about it and send Panasonic so that they issue  a fix even if the problem is small and seen only at certain % or angles. There shouldn't be any problem with such a hefty price.

Second, seems there are certain patches worse than others (obviously) and here are example serial number prefixes:

- *Solid rock one by a vimeo reviewer*: serial # prefix XT2EA.


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## MidEastGal

- *Shaky lenses 12-35 by another vimeo reviewer*: serial #s prefixes  XT2LD, XT2JD, XT2F, XT2G, and XT2H.


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## MidEastGal

Check this good *video review (and blog post)* in which the lens is recommended for doc work (which what I want it for). Again, so contrasting reviews and recommendations on both sides of the spectrum---positive and negative.


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## MidEastGal

I called Panasonic Canada to ask about any updates and whether they recommend buying the lens at this point in time. The person who replied said at this point there are no firmware updates issued by Panasonic regarding this lens. He said that usually if there is a problem and they are aware of it, the way to know they addressed it is if he detected a firmware update on the system. He didn't. SO he concluded if they are aware of the problem, they must be dealing with it at the moment. The decision to buy it or wait is up to the customer.


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## MidEastGal

Not so good update to anyone who might still read this thread  : I asked my local store and they said if I buy this lens from them ($1300), it is going to be special order from another province and so there is no return or exchange and if it had a problem they will have to send it to Panasonic Canada or that other province. Seems very limiting option let alone the money. I wish I can find it in front of me in a store where I can go back and say "exchange it please" just in case there is a bad model.


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