# Pricing for Triathalons/Bike Races



## willmcauliffephotos (Mar 17, 2014)

Hey guys, I have been asked to shoot photos for a few triathlons and bicycle rides coming up this spring/summer. I have never shot events like this for clients. I am wondering if anyone has any ideas of what a reasonable price is for an event such as this. I was thinking $200 for each separate event but I don't know if this is too high or too low of a price. Any feedback would be great! Thank you!


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## EOV (Mar 18, 2014)

I am no professional but this seems low for the amount of work that I foresee you putting into the events. YMMV


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## tirediron (Mar 18, 2014)

What's your hourly rate?  How many hours (plus travel) would you be required for each event? What are the deliverables and how much time would that take?  Any number plucked out of the air is meaninglesss unless you actually have thought behind it.


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## BlackPoet (Mar 18, 2014)

I'm no pro photographer either, but in my field of work, when I give estimates I have to think of every little thing that'll consume money or time, even if it doesn't seem like such a big deal.


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## KmH (Mar 18, 2014)

Yes. $200 per event is a lot less than what a professional action sports photographer would charge.

How will the photos be used and by whom - contestants or the race organizers?

Are you being hired by the race organizers?


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## gsgary (Mar 18, 2014)

You say youhave never shot events like this before, is your equipment and your skill up to it ? i have shot loads and you have to know what you are doing because it all happens quick


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## Steve5D (Mar 18, 2014)

gsgary said:


> You say youhave never shot events like this before, is your equipment and your skill up to it ? i have shot loads and you have to know what you are doing because it all happens quick



I've never shot power boat racing, but I have no doubt that my equipment and skill are up to it.

What to charge should, of course, be dictated by the amount of work required. I shot youth football last year, and all I had to do was take the card from the camera and hand it over. I made between $200.00 and $300.00 a day. If I could do that every day, I wouldn't hesitate an iota...


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## gsgary (Mar 18, 2014)

Steve5D said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> > You say youhave never shot events like this before, is your equipment and your skill up to it ? i have shot loads and you have to know what you are doing because it all happens quick
> ...



Your 5D would struggle


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## tirediron (Mar 18, 2014)

gsgary said:


> Your 5D would struggle


Not if he holds it really tight!


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## Steve5D (Mar 18, 2014)

gsgary said:


> Steve5D said:
> 
> 
> > gsgary said:
> ...



Are you saying the 5D would struggle shooting power boat racing? Well, yeah, it probably would.

Which is precisely the reason I wouldn't use it; it's not the proper gear for the job. I would use the 40D.

If you're talking about shooting youth football, both bodies performed well...


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## pixmedic (Mar 18, 2014)

It's always interesting to me  when people talk about how older gear isn't "suitable" to shoot things....how have any of these events changed in the last decade....When that older gear was state of the art?

How did photographers shoot football games, boat racing, weddings, and other sporting events with film cameras and manual lenses?  Before iso 10000 and 51pt AF systems? 

Or did we only start shooting these things after the advent of the D800 and 5DIII?

Would the 5D struggle? Maybe. But probably not as much as an F2 with MF lenses.


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## gsgary (Mar 19, 2014)

Steve5D said:


> Are you saying the 5D would struggle shooting power boat racing? Well, yeah, it probably would.
> 
> Which is precisely the reason I wouldn't use it; it's not the proper gear for the job. I would use the 40D.
> 
> If you're talking about shooting youth football, both bodies performed well...



Im not saying the 5d wont do it, its just if you are trying to make money the 5d does not get enough keepers the only time I used to use mine was shooting dont agility at iso3200 and pre focus with the 300f2.8 even my 2 1Dmk2's could not track the dogs at full speed not even a D4 would


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## tirediron (Mar 19, 2014)

gsgary said:


> [...I used to use mine was shooting dont agility at iso3200 and pre focus with the 300f2.8 even my 2 1Dmk2's could not track the dogs at full speed not even a D4 would


What the heck kinda dogs are you talking about Gary?  I remember doing some with my old D300 and it didn't have a problem.


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## Steve5D (Mar 19, 2014)

gsgary said:


> Im not saying the 5d wont do it, its just if you are trying to make money the 5d does not get enough keepers...



So, lemme' get that straight: It _does _do it, but it does it by not getting enough keepers?

I'm sorry, but that's nonsensical.

At the end of the day, though, you're wrong. I know you're wrong because I know my 5D worked, and works, very well when I need it to.

If yours did not, I would submit that the issue may not have been the camera...


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## Robin Usagani (Mar 19, 2014)

Large companies like brightroom usually hire bunch of newbie photographers.  You shoot jpeg small resolution.  Then they pay people to identify bib # and upload the photos to the internet for people to find it.  To start you make $35/hr.  If you have been with them for a while you may be promoted up to $50/hr.  How do I know?  I did it once.  Never again.


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## gsgary (Mar 19, 2014)

tirediron said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> > [...I used to use mine was shooting dont agility at iso3200 and pre focus with the 300f2.8 even my 2 1Dmk2's could not track the dogs at full speed not even a D4 would
> ...



I'm talking this, even when the D3 came out it would not track these they are so fast on the tight coarse


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## gsgary (Mar 19, 2014)

Steve5D said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> > Im not saying the 5d wont do it, its just if you are trying to make money the 5d does not get enough keepers...
> ...



Not when you are shooting and printing on site you need as many keepers as possible there is no time to sort them at these events when there is over 400 dogs


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## Steve5D (Mar 19, 2014)

Robin Usagani said:


> Large companies like brightroom usually hire bunch of newbie photographers.  You shoot jpeg small resolution.  Then they pay people to identify bib # and upload the photos to the internet for people to find it.  To start you make $35/hr.  If you have been with them for a while you may be promoted up to $50/hr.  How do I know?  I did it once.  Never again.



Why not?

I'm not at all familiar with the company, by the way...


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## Steve5D (Mar 19, 2014)

gsgary said:


> Not when you are shooting and printing on site you  need as many keepers as possible there is no time to sort them at these  events when there is over 400 dogs



And, up to this  point, what, exactly, has been offered by the OP (who's been absent  since the first post in this thread, by the way) to indicate that his  requirements are anything remotely like the requirements of shooting  some event with over 400 dogs running around an obstacle course?

Lemme' help ya' out: NOTHING.

That's  why I suggested that the amount should be dictated by the amount of  work required. If all he's doing is handing over a card, and doing zero  editing, it's a quick quick pay day with very little effort.

Also, there's an old adage that goes "It's a poor craftsman who blames his tools".

It's true...


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## Robin Usagani (Mar 19, 2014)

Steve5D said:


> Robin Usagani said:
> 
> 
> > Large companies like brightroom usually hire bunch of newbie photographers.  You shoot jpeg small resolution.  Then they pay people to identify bib # and upload the photos to the internet for people to find it.  To start you make $35/hr.  If you have been with them for a while you may be promoted up to $50/hr.  How do I know?  I did it once.  Never again.
> ...



Cause last time I did it I had to be there at like 6 am (which is ok by me) but they told me to go after 3 hour later (even though the event was still going on).  After considering driving, pay to park, using your shutter, it was not worth $105 IMO.  I didnt get to see the files because I shot with their card.  I rather shoot family photos and get $400.  They dont tell you how long they will use you for.


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## Steve5D (Mar 19, 2014)

Robin Usagani said:


> Steve5D said:
> 
> 
> > Robin Usagani said:
> ...



Okay, that's the last time.

What about the first time? Or the times in between the first and last times?

How many times did you shoot for them?


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## Robin Usagani (Mar 19, 2014)

First and last.. sorry I was not being clear.  Oh also they told us to come at 6am but we started shooting at 6:30 am.  They only paid us starting at 6:30.   I am always on time so of course I got there at 5:45 and didnt get paid until 6:30.  You wont learn anything because you wont see the files and you shoot thousands of photos and most of them are posed shot of each contestant holding their participation medal.


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## Steve5D (Mar 19, 2014)

Robin Usagani said:


> First and last.. sorry I was not being clear.  Oh also they told us to come at 6am but we started shooting at 6:30 am.  They only paid us starting at 6:30.   I am always on time so of course I got there at 5:45 and didnt get paid until 6:30.  You wont learn anything because you wont see the files and you shoot thousands of photos and most of them are posed shot of each contestant holding their participation medal.



So, to be fair, you can't say whether or not that one instance was the norm or the exception.

How many thousands of photos of kids posing with medals did you shoot in those three hours?


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## Robin Usagani (Mar 19, 2014)

Steve5D said:


> Robin Usagani said:
> 
> 
> > First and last.. sorry I was not being clear.  Oh also they told us to come at 6am but we started shooting at 6:30 am.  They only paid us starting at 6:30.   I am always on time so of course I got there at 5:45 and didnt get paid until 6:30.  You wont learn anything because you wont see the files and you shoot thousands of photos and most of them are posed shot of each contestant holding their participation medal.
> ...



A LOT.. i have no idea.  It was a marathon.  It wasnt a gig for me.  It was mindless and you dont get to see the files.  If that is your thing, contact brightroom and be on their team.


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## Steve5D (Mar 19, 2014)

Hey, for the right amount of money, I don't need to see the files. I could care less.

You said "you shoot thousands of photos". In the three hours you did it, I just don't think that's possible. If you averaged one frame every fifteen seconds, you wouldn't even break 800. And there's no way to know, based on what you've said, whether what you experienced is the norm or the exception. The way you addressed it initially ("Cause _last _time I did it"), it seemed like you'd shot for them more than once.

I would just like to see a response absent the exaggeration...


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## Robin Usagani (Mar 19, 2014)

Here you go Steve.  brightroom, Inc.

Just sign up and it will tell you if there is a race close to your area.  You can go to one of the events and you can see what kind of photos the photographers they hire take.


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## Steve5D (Mar 19, 2014)

Right.

That's probably the only way I'll find out anything accurate about them, because that sure as Hell ain't happenin' here...


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## Robin Usagani (Mar 19, 2014)

Steve5D said:


> Right.
> 
> That's probably the only way I'll find out anything accurate about them, because that sure as Hell ain't happenin' here...



I feel like we can't just having a conversation here?  I mean I had a bad experience with them and just wanted to share it?  There is a reason why they are ALWAYS adding more photographers.  There is a reason why they hire noobs.


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## Steve5D (Mar 20, 2014)

Robin Usagani said:


> Steve5D said:
> 
> 
> > Right.
> ...



For me, the issue is this: Your post made it seem as though you'd shot for them multiple times. You referred to the "last time" you shot for them, not the "only time" you shot for them.

Given that it was the only time, it's impossible for you to conclude whether or not that's the way they do business, or if that one day was an exception. You made it sound as though you shot "thousands" of photos. Well, in three hours, if you're shooting photos of kids posing with their medals, it's a physical impossibility to shoot "thousands" of photos.

I'm just not a fan of gross exaggeration. It's not constructive. It's more detrimental than it is useful. So, yeah, I take issue with that when I see it.

Were you a newbie when they hired you? You didn't say.

You say there's a reason they're always hiring more photographers. I'm sure you would suggest it's because people like you shoot for them once and don't return. It's every bit as likely it's because their business is growing, and they need more photographers.

I've done gigs like that. I shot a football tournament over on the Gulf Coast. I was told to be there at 7:00am. I was there early, about 6:45am. When the owner of the company showed up, he said the schedule had changed, and that we wouldn't be shooting until around noon, and that we wouldn't be paid for those five hours. Well, two of the photographers left. They made nothing. I went back to my hotel, took a nap, and then went back to start shooting at noon.

Over the course of the ensuing two and a half days, I shot pretty much constantly, shooting football games and turning the cards over. Every once in a while I was able to enjoy 30 or 60 minutes of down time, for which I was paid. I never saw the photos I took. I didn't need to.

And, for the amount of work I had to do, I made a significant amount of money...


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## tirediron (Mar 20, 2014)

Okay guys, this back-and-forthing is NOT helping the OP.  Can we please get back on track?


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## Robin Usagani (Mar 20, 2014)

It was like lining up livestock.  Thousands of people go trough the finish line and we had  lanes with photographers.  So lets see..  Denver marathon has about 14000+ participants (small compared to other big cities).  Lets just say we have 7 photographers shooting the finish line.. that's about 2000 runner per photographer (some people pose together, some do several poses, some dont want pictures).  On the top of that you shoot bunch of different groups in the morning before they start running and action shots.   The finish line is funneled to go to the photographers to make sure people take photos.  I really dont know how many I shot but I filled up at least 1 card and we shot smallest JPEG.  I shoot to achieve perfection.  Shooting like this (no thinking whatsoever) and knowing the result will be only good enough to be printed on 5x7 is not very appealing for me.  They know which photo is taken by which photographer and they have a point system.  If your shoot vs. photo purchased ratio is good and your shots/hr is good, they will keep contacting you for future events.


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## Steve5D (Mar 20, 2014)

Robin Usagani said:


> Shooting like this (no thinking whatsoever) and knowing the result will be only good enough to be printed on 5x7 is not very appealing for me.  They know which photo is taken by which photographer and they have a point system.  If your shoot vs. photo purchased ratio is good and your shots/hr is good, they will keep contacting you for future events.



Sounds like easy money to me.

And, despite what you say, Robin, there's no way in Hell you filled up a card shooting small JPEG, unless you were using a really small card. Every event similar to this that I've shot, the smallest card I've been handed is 8GB.

Again, it's the whole exaggeration thing. It doesn't work...


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## Robin Usagani (Mar 20, 2014)

I see.. so you are telling me i am a liar. Yes.. it was probably a very small card and was not 8GB. I remember the moment I had to change the card. The cards were probably really old. I remember I had to put it in a little envelope, write down the card serial numbers and my name.


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## tirediron (Mar 20, 2014)

And I think we're done with the "Robin and Steve Thread".


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