# HELP with indoor shots needed



## horseracingfreak (Dec 30, 2013)

Hey Guys/Gals.
        could really use some solid advice on some upcoming photo adventures.
I live in California and will be going to Kentucky on Friday. reason for the trip..and my user name might be a tip off..is to tour the various thoroughbred farms
in Lexington. the bulk of the farms show the stallions outside so i have no problem with settings and getting the shots i want.
however, theres 3 farms that show the stallions Indoors and there in lies the problem i need help with. my indoor, moving(although not alot)low light photos suck..at best.
  first bit of hopefully helpfull info is I AM NOT allowed to use a flash. these stallions tend to be a bit skittish thus flash is not usually permitted. the way they are shown is they are usually walked from a stall to a wide open,but not well lit area.the horses are then stood fairly still but they do move to some degree. these areas are large enough i can shoot from any side which probably helps. best way to describe the amount of light is that its lit about the same as a restaurant, not bright, but not what you would call dark. most of the lights resemble flood lights usually in the corners of the rooms or perhaps an overhead.
  last year i got so frustrated i went with auto which was horrible, just about everything was real blurry(couldnt seem to get a fast enough shutter speed). considering i only make this trip once a year, and cant practice with settings as i cant duplicate the situation in in california,
  my camera is  a 60D, lense is a 17/55 2.8 wondering if AV is best bet? set at 2.8, white balance on flourescent,and auto ISO?..i really have no clue so if anyone can offer suggestions, id be greatfull...sorry for the long post


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## weepete (Dec 30, 2013)

I'd say shoot manual as you will really need to control your shutter speed to prevent that motion blur. I know some people like shooting in AV mode for these kind of shots but pesonallly I don't get it, as too many shots end up with too slow a shutter speed and with no direct control it takes more time to get the settings right.  DOF might be an issue at those focal lengths too, as you'll need to be close to fill the frame so keep an eye on that. 

The settings I use for similar conditions (low light basketball no flash) are as 1/800th sec, auto ISO, aperture wide open, single AF point, AI servo, CWA metering. If your horses are fairly still then you could drop the ss a bit more, I'd be suprised if you would get away with less than 1/125th but take some test shots and zoom in to check sharpness.

It may be that the light is just too low in the arena to get the kind of shots you want though.


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## Smokeyr67 (Dec 30, 2013)

Are the horses on the lead, or being ridden?


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## horseracingfreak (Dec 30, 2013)

there on a lead, there walked to the middle of the area, then stood for inspection. once there stopped, the movement is minimal, but with any living animal, there gonna move some, usually head movement more then anything else


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## wyogirl (Dec 30, 2013)

Can you bring constant lights?


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## bratkinson (Dec 30, 2013)

horseracingfreak said:


> my camera is a 60D, lense is a 17/55 2.8 wondering if AV is best bet? set at 2.8, white balance on flourescent,and auto ISO?..i really have no clue so if anyone can offer suggestions, id be greatfull...sorry for the long post


My preference would be to shoot with Auto WB as you don't know for sure what the lighting will be.  The 60D does a fairly good job at AWB under most conditions, and if needed, it can be adjusted slightly in post.  As for Av at 2.8, note that very few lenses are at their sharpest wide open.  I'd probably shoot some at 2.8 and then some at 3.0 or 3.2, just as a 'safety'.  Note, too, that at or near wide open on fast lenses results in some incredibly thin depth of field.  It could well end up that the horses nose is in focus and their eyes are not.  Whole horse in focus?  Forget it...unless you are a significant distance away.

Now then...Av lets the camera choose what it wants for a shutter speed and with auto ISO, the ISO speed as well.  The camera may choose either an unacceptably slow exposure, such as 1/30th which will likely result in a slight blurring due to horse movement (or yours), and/or, an ISO 3200 or faster, all depending on lighting conditions.  At 3200, my former 60D was right at the limits of what I considered acceptable/'correctable enough' ISO related noise.  Faster than that, too much noise.  You may want to set an maximum ISO speed of 3200, or even 2400 (page 89 of the 60D user manual), but if it results in the camera making exposures slower than 1/30th, then crank the ISO up a notch.

Good luck at the horse show!


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## grafxman (Dec 30, 2013)

I frequently take photos inside museums which are nearly always very dark. Nothing is moving however. Anyway I shoot in manual and allow the camera to select my ISO. For APSC cameras you need to know how much noise you will get or can tolerate. There are software applications that can get rid of a lot of noise. I just use Canon's DPP software. I often set my shutter speed somewhat slow with the aperture wide open if possible. Sometimes the displays will be of multiple items at varying distances from the camera. I have had to use f 14 on occasion. It is quite important that you learn how to shoot with a slow shutter speed. This is accomplished by holding your elbows tight against your ribs, taking a breath, exhaling about half way then snapping the photo. I recommend you set your camera up so you focus only with the back focus button. That way the focus won't possibly change when you depress the shutter button. The next best thing you can do is buy a full frame camera such as a 6D which can handle high ISOs with very little noise.


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## Derrel (Dec 30, 2013)

Widish-f/stop, like f/3.2 or f/3.5...at any distance over 25 feet, you'll have adequate DOF. If the light level is poor, you will need ISO 1250 or thereabouts. If a particular horse is moving, keep shooting in continuous advance, continuous focus mode. This is the digital era--shots are "free", so to speak. The 17-55 zoom does NOT magnify the image a lot,k nor does it magnify image shake all that much, so you oughtta' be okay with a wide range of shutter speeds; its not like shooting a 300mm lens...


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## robbins.photo (Dec 30, 2013)

A shutter speed of 1/125 to 1/200 should be sufficient if they are moving at a walk or slower, the thing to watch out for with horses is the tail, if they are swatting flies away with it you'll most likely need 1/500-1/800 to avoid motion blur there, they can get those things moving pretty quick.  You can get a lower shutter speed by panning if they are walking or running, but it takes practice to get it right so you might want to try a few shots that way just to see if you can get the timing down but I wouldn't spend a huge amount of time on it till you've had more time to practice.


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## trojancast (Dec 30, 2013)

Is there any reason you can't use a tripod?  I assume the horses aren't trotting by.  If you can, use the tripod to eliminate the vibration error.  Shoot at 2 to 3 shots below wide open, auto ISO, and auto WB.  Bob's your uncle 

Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner


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## horseracingfreak (Dec 31, 2013)

Thanks  to EVERYONE for there suggestions and tips..i feel ALOT more confident now that i have stuff to work with.
BTW,since some of it was asked, i could probably use a monopod, reupod not so much. as for distance, i can probably be as close as a few feet and certainly no more then 10-12 feet, course i have to stand back some to get the whole horse in the picture. as for swishing tails, with the indoor  viewing areas, flies generally arent an issue.i can use my 10-22 lense if i needed to stand real close but its not a 2.8


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## robbins.photo (Dec 31, 2013)

horseracingfreak said:


> Thanks to EVERYONE for there suggestions and tips..i feel ALOT more confident now that i have stuff to work with.
> BTW,since some of it was asked, i could probably use a monopod, reupod not so much. as for distance, i can probably be as close as a few feet and certainly no more then 10-12 feet, course i have to stand back some to get the whole horse in the picture. as for swishing tails, with the indoor viewing areas, flies generally arent an issue.i can use my 10-22 lense if i needed to stand real close but its not a 2.8



We'll keep our fingers crossed and wait for you to post a few samples when it's all said and done!


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## weepete (Dec 31, 2013)

A tripod won't help. A monopod possibly might if you are panning but camera shake won't be the issue, motion blur will be. Any shutter speed you use that will be sufficient to eliminate most of the motion blur will be more than enough to counter camera shake at the focal lengths you are planning to use.

Whatever you do decide to do absolutely do not sacrifice your shutter speed. The biggest problems people encounter when trying to do this kind of photography is blurred shots because they get too concerned about image noise or clipping. Don't be tempted to deliberatley underexpose your shot either unless you have maxed out your ISO and have no other choice.

Oh, and good luck!


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