# Banding with Canon 5d



## bradracino (Sep 28, 2008)

Hey all,

 I bought a 5d in May and since then I've noticed some strange banding throughout certain photos.  If I'm taking photos indoors and there is a window with daylight coming in, there will most likely be a green horizontal line extending from the window throughout the shot.  If I'm shooting outdoors at night, the same thing happens from street lights and such (with a red line).  Sometimes indoors the light turns into a green halo if someone is standing in front of the window.  What is doing this?  And how do I correct it?  I've lost a lot of good photos to this anomaly.  Any suggestions?

I never had this happen with my old 10d.  And I used the same lenses.  I'm upgrading to a 24-70 L lens this week so maybe that will fix it?  Thanks


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## Antithesis (Sep 28, 2008)

If it's a colorful band with a lot of noise in it, it's the sensor and it sometimes happens at high ISO if you underexpose too much. You can almost see a grid in the image. It only happens to me at ISO1600 or above in deep shadows, or if I try to bump the exposure too much in PS. I've heard it helps if you use the latest firmware, but I have yet to update. Nailing the exposure helps at high ISO as well. 

If the bands your seeing have any curvature at all, it might just be lens flare. If there is a perfect color outline of someone near a window or in any light to dark, high-contrast areas, your likely seeing chromatic aberration. This happens with almost all lenses in high contrast situations, even the 24-70 your looking at. 

I'd recommend posting a crop of what your talking about to help analyze the problem.


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## bradracino (Sep 28, 2008)

<a href="http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f159/bradracino/?action=view&current=banding.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f159/bradracino/banding.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


Here is an image from the last wedding... I couldn't find many more but this is the general problem.  In this case it's pretty minimal but it's been much worse in others.

Thanks


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## ksmattfish (Sep 28, 2008)

I'd send it in for repair.  It's not the lens.


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## RacePhoto (Sep 28, 2008)

ksmattfish said:


> I'd send it in for repair.  It's not the lens.



But the picture was shot a 1/40th with a flash, ISO 400, and the light in the window is brighter than the flash exposure, so it's going to over expose and create Chromatic Aberrations in the edges of the burned out area.

It's not the lens and it's not the camera. Take it from there.


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## Joves (Sep 28, 2008)

Yep it isnt a lens fault there. It is clearly sensor based. Id send it in.


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## Josh66 (Sep 28, 2008)

RacePhoto said:


> [...] so it's going to over expose and create Chromatic Aberrations in the edges of the burned out area.
> 
> It's not the lens and it's not the camera. Take it from there.


That's not CA, and it's not just around the edges of the burned out area - it goes through the entire frame.

From what I've heard about it, it happens when you have a bright light source on the edge of the frame.

I'm not sure if sending it in will fix anything (might not be fixable)...  Are you using the latest firmware?  Maybe it was a processing (in camera) problem that has been fixed already with new firmware.


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## Garbz (Sep 28, 2008)

RacePhoto said:


> But the picture was shot a 1/40th with a flash, ISO 400, and the light in the window is brighter than the flash exposure, so it's going to over expose and create Chromatic Aberrations in the edges of the burned out area.
> 
> It's not the lens and it's not the camera. Take it from there.



... Did you post this in the right thread? What has CA got to do with a green stripe appearing down a frame through the middle of a black suit.

It's the camera, send it in for repair.

/EDIT: dammit jeep beat me too it.


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## Joves (Sep 28, 2008)

Garbz said:


> ... Did you post this in the right thread? What has CA got to do with a green stripe appearing down a frame through the middle of a black suit.
> 
> It's the camera, send it in for repair.
> 
> /EDIT: dammit jeep beat me too it.


 There is a line through the bride as well.


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## Josh66 (Sep 28, 2008)

There's actually two going through the bride (easiest to see on her head).


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## bradracino (Sep 29, 2008)

here are some more examples of the problem.  I just typed in "horizontal banding canon 5d" into google and there was a letter from the ceo or someone high up in canon that said it was due to interference at high ISOs and certain lenses.  None of the photos were at high iso's and my lenses aren't any of the ones named.  What the hell is going on?  

I appreciate all the responses so far, you guys have been a gigantic help since i joined TPF.  

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f159/bradracino/carr-5.jpg

<a href="http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f159/bradracino/?action=view&current=carr-5.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f159/bradracino/carr-5.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f159/bradracino/carr-6.jpg

<a href="http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f159/bradracino/?action=view&current=carr-6.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f159/bradracino/carr-6.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


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## Bifurcator (Sep 29, 2008)

I've seen streaks like that before and it was sensor based. The cameras it happened on were a $150 P&Ss so I didn't take them in or worry about it but anytime there were bright areas like the sun, or small bright windows in a dark room they made streaks kinda like that.  Also CEOs can be just as totally FOS as anyone else. Actually I think CEOs and PR officials are especially FOS.   But if it makes a difference to you ISO affected it.


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## RacePhoto (Sep 29, 2008)

Garbz said:


> ... Did you post this in the right thread? What has CA got to do with a green stripe appearing down a frame through the middle of a black suit.
> 
> It's the camera, send it in for repair.
> 
> /EDIT: dammit jeep beat me too it.



Stage a similar photo, and stop down enough so the windows are not so extremely over exposed. Or better yet, higher shutter speed and slightly more direct flash. Is this with bounce flash? What's it bouncing off of?

The shutter speed of 1/40 at 5.6 ISO 400 of a bright window is going to cause all kinds of stray light bouncing around inside the lens and camera. The windows are at an angle, coming from above, not straight on. I don't know why you are shooting with a flash at 1/40th and strong back lighting?

The CA is an indication of how burned out the top is, and how much bright light is coming from the top of the photo causing internal flare and reflections. The bands match the positions of the blinds on the windows.

Of course, it may be a camera problem, but if you search, you'll find the same problems with many other digital cameras in the same situation. Don't limit the search to just 5D just because that's what you have. 

I hate to bring up HP cameras, because hardly anyone here would care, but they had some serious issues with the Sun coming in from the side and you would get a venetian blind effect. Horrible banding! It was only when it was at just the wrong angle. If you search it's often blamed on high ISO, under exposed images. ISO 400 isn't what I'd call high ISO.

It's not just as simple as looking at a couple of photos and saying, blame the camera. There are a number of other factors contributing.

Example: _The D200&#8217;s non-issue happens if you severely overexpose (blow out) a large portion of the image at 400 ISO. When viewed at 100% there may be a mild vertical striping, banding or corduroy effect in moderately exposed sections. You have to blow out a large portion of the image in exactly the right way to cast exactly the right striped veil over the darker parts of the image. Images that show this striping are so blown out that my grandma would be smart enough to delete them in the camera before she ever got to looking for this nuance on her computer at 100%. Even then these bands only appear under just the right combination of _*bad exposure*_. &#8220;

_


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## jcolman (Sep 30, 2008)

RacePhoto said:


> The CA is an indication of how burned out the top is, and how much bright light is coming from the top of the photo causing internal flare and reflections. The bands match the positions of the blinds on the windows.



That's not CA.  The bands lining up with the window blinds is pure coincidence. 

I shoot overexposed windows, sun, off camera flash, etc hitting the lens all the time with my 5D.  He's got a problem with the camera.


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## RacePhoto (Sep 30, 2008)

jcolman said:


> That's not CA.  The bands lining up with the window blinds is pure coincidence.
> 
> I shoot overexposed windows, sun, off camera flash, etc hitting the lens all the time with my 5D.  He's got a problem with the camera.



OK I give! :thumbup: I was just trying to throw out some other potential causes, since a number of other digital cameras have the same problem and show the same banding issues.

Good luck, figuring it out.


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## Josh66 (Sep 30, 2008)

jcolman said:


> The bands lining up with the window blinds is pure coincidence.


I kinda doubt that.  It looks to me like the windows are causing it.

I would try to set up an experiment.  Position some bright lights on the edge of the frame and see if you can reproduce the bands.  If you can, you'll know what's causing it.


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## Garbz (Oct 1, 2008)

RacePhoto the D200's "problem" occurs when an image is beyond anything usable, whereas the photo above looks more like photos I take on a regular basis (dark moody with enough contrast to blow both highlights and shadows).

If it were a form of flare it wouldn't continue like that over the entire frame, it would eventually fade off. Furthermore the flare wouldn't be vertical, it would curve through the lens. There's no doubt that the bright parts are causing it but this is either an error on the sensor, or an error on the readout. A similar thing happens when you use the electronic viewfinder on my dad's Olympus point and shoot. Branding as a result of how data is read out. Take a photo and it's all better again.

The only camera I have seen that has this problem when taking a photo and the camera was not broken is on my camera phone, and in that case it really is the lens


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## Bifurcator (Oct 1, 2008)

I've had several cameras that had the exact same problem. Of course that doesn't mean I know why it happens.  I think it has to do with the sensor. I call it sensor flare.  I've not seen it happen on any of my good cameras yet. The last one I had it happen on was a Nikon 880.


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## _SnapShot_ (Oct 6, 2008)

RacePhoto said:


> OK I give! :thumbup: I was just trying to throw out some other potential causes, since a number of other digital cameras have the same problem and show the same banding issues.
> 
> Good luck, figuring it out.


 
Here's the answer. *"It's a poor craftsman who blames his tools."*


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## Garbz (Oct 7, 2008)

What the? How is branding in a photograph not the fault of tools? I can quite comfortably say that no reasonable photo will brand on my camera regardless if it's a high ISO shot at a wedding, a normal shot outside, or a long exposure of the sky. I wouldn't know how to make an image appear branded let alone be able to do it by accident.


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