# Buying my first external light kit.



## jdsfighter (Apr 17, 2013)

I'm currently struggling with the epic debate of what to spend my money on. I've been researching several different kits, individual products, etc. In the past I've had very limited experience in working with strobes, I played with a few 800w alienbees for a bit, but other needs got in the way. I'm currently at the point where I can start reinvesting in my photography equipment. First and foremost, my lenses are somewhat limited, so in the next several months I'm looking at the sigma 28-70mm and the 70-200mm, but those will come after getting my lights.


I'm thinking currently I want to purchase a small speedlite setup with appropriate gear, then after I purchase the lenses, splurge on a full strobe set. For my needs, I feel I'll need between 3-4 external flashes, so the more economically sound method would probably be the speedlites. My current budget is $1,000 or under, and as such I haven't found a decent strobe set.

I stumbled across: Recommended Flash Photography Kits
And they've detailed a kt: [h=2]Portable Home Studio Flash Photography Kit  $788[/h]*$144  Three Impact Light Stands* - These stands are much more stable than the ones in the beginner kit.  I use these with some HUGE 5 foot tall (1.5 meter) lighting modifiers and they hold up very well with a little sand bag.  Buy this from Amazon or Buy this from B&H Photo.
*$270  Three YN-560 II Speedlight Flashes* - This is the upgraded version of the YN-560 from the beginner kit.  I have owned MANY of these and they have been durable and provide excellent quality for 1/4th the price of similar Canon and Nikon brand flashes.  This flash works with both Canon and Nikon brand cameras.  I prefer to work with manual flash, but the same company also produces eTTL/iTTL flashes as well.   Buy this from Amazon or from B&H Photo
*$60  Two Sets of Flash Trigger/Receivers* - You have a big decision to make here.   The flash trigger goes on top of your camera and the receiver attaches underneath your flash.  This one is super simple to use.  There arent even any buttons (except a test button) on the trigger/receiver.  You just put this baby on and the flash will fire remotely every time you press the shutter button.  Buy this infrared trigger on Amazon or Buy from B&H Photo.  This trigger works on ALL Canon and Nikon cameras, but Sony photographers need this one.
*Note:* The only negative to this trigger/receiver is that it is infrared.  That will work fine for many indoor and low-light uses, but youll probably want to buy a radio trigger/receiver like this one for ANY Canon (it works on all canons even though not all are listed in the description on amazon) or this one for Nikon if you need to fire a flash from far distances or in bright sunlight.
*$84  Two 24&#8243; Softboxes*  I LOVE this softbox!  works very well and it is a good manageable size.  Buy this from Amazon
*$19  One 5-in-1 Reflector* - Buy this from Amazon or from B&H Photo
*$22  Two Shoot-Through Umbrellas with black sleeve* - Buy this from Amazon or from B&H Photo
*$24  Three Flash Brackets* - Buy from Amazon or from B&H Photo
*$153  Large background stand and black and white muslin backdrops*  Very nice to have a sturdy backdrop stand and some backgrounds that you can use to set up a studio anywhere.  This one is rock solid and cheap (well, its cheap in comparison to the next kit down on this list). Buy this from Amazon or from B&H Photo
*$12  55 Flash gels*  Slip these little gels on the head of your flash and you can change the color of the light.  Very handy for creative lighting.  I use them all the time. Buy this from Amazon or from B&H Photo
*$24  Three Sandbags*[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] - Sandbags weigh down your tripod so the stand doesnt blow over in the wind and break your gear.  Skip this step at your own risk.  [/FONT]Buy this from Amazon[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] or [/FONT]from B&H Photo[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif].[/FONT]




[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]My main question is whether this will be adequate or should I continue saving for a few more months and just buy strobes.[/FONT]


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## IgsEMT (Apr 17, 2013)

Adequate for what? 
A fellow photog uses 3 speedlites and a AB to light up a large room + on camera flash. I use vivitar (Armitars) 283 and 285 and/or Nikon speedlites to light up a small room + on camera flash; also have ABs for larger rooms/halls. 
Depends on the venue.

For portraits, in studio I use my AB 400, when outdoors, back to speedlites and vivitars. 

Light is light. If you have weaker lights and gear with higher is capabilities, it'll work out.


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## jdsfighter (Apr 17, 2013)

I basically want to have enough equipment to meet all the possible scenarios for my shoots. In 2 months, I have 2 weddings, several engagement photo shoots, and a lot of random portraits. I do pretty much everything with natural light, but indoors with my current camera and lenses, I have to use too high of an iso, and am often left with a fair amount of grain. In the next year, should everything take off, I'll be looking at investing in a full studio (already have a location, but parents simply use it for storage), and more equipment.

So I'm just attempting to ensure that the kit I posted will handle all the different types of shoots that I get. I still prefer natural light as much as possible, but I just hate missing a good shot due to inadequate lighting.


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## Patrice (Apr 17, 2013)

jdsfighter said:


> I basically want to have enough equipment to meet all the possible scenarios for my shoots. In 2 months, I have 2 weddings, several engagement photo shoots, and a lot of random portraits. I do pretty much everything with natural light, but indoors with my current camera and lenses, I have to use too high of an iso, and am often left with a fair amount of grain. In the next year, should everything take off, I'll be looking at investing in a full studio (already have a location, but parents simply use it for storage), and more equipment.
> 
> So I'm just attempting to ensure that the kit I posted will handle all the different types of shoots that I get. I still prefer natural light as much as possible, but I just hate missing a good shot due to inadequate lighting.





Good quality 'strobist' setup


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## Derrel (Apr 17, 2013)

The thing with the kit that Patrice has for sale above is that the flashes are all tough, durable, top-quality flash units, not cheezy Chinese-made flashes...so, who is gonna help funnel more money to Chinese companies cranking out low-priced stuff???

Until you've held, used, and seen the sheer power and the results from a Metz 45-series flash, you probably have no idea of what utter rubbish a $60 Yongy is...the author above describing the Yongys as , "*durable and provide excellent quality*" made me think of my young 8 year-old son asking me if the movie Tooth Fairy was indeed, "the best movie ever made?"...

Just sayin...


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## Buckster (Apr 17, 2013)

I love my rubbish!  It works great, especially for the price, and seems to be holding up just fine!  :mrgreen:

And you know what's really hard to figure out, OP?  From one photo to the next, nobody seems to know if I used the rubbish or the expensive gear.  I can't figure out why that is, when we're told that it's so obvious that one of them is so much better...  Oh well...


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## nickzou (Apr 17, 2013)

I thought people's opinion of the YN-560 were generally positive around here.


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## Buckster (Apr 17, 2013)

nickzou said:


> I thought people's opinion of the YN-560 were generally positive around here.


It is, but not everyone's on board.


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## Derrel (Apr 17, 2013)

nickzou said:


> I thought people's opinion of the YN-560 were generally positive around here.



Yes...most people are willing to buy cheap stuff from China because it is "good enough". And when it works, it works,and all is well. Of course, "most people's opinions" show us the following truths: McDonald's in the most-popular restaurant in the USA. WalMart is the USA's Number One Retailer. Kraft macaroni and cheese is a fine dinner for children and teens. Soda pop is a healthy kids' drink--ask any schoolboard that has a soda vendor contract! 

Hyundai is a better car than BMW or Mercedes Benz--ask any Hyundai owner....they will tell you. 

The Toyota Camry is the most-awesome car in the entire USA. 

FOX NEWS is awesome! Somewhere north of 60% of Americans believe in angels. 

Ernest & Julio Gallo jug wine is the biggest-selling wine out of all brands in the USA, and therefore is the best wine in all of America. 

The Shakespeare Ugly Stick fishing rod ($69 at most locations) is the best fishing rod in the world...and $400-$500 Sage and G. Loomis rods are "the same thing".

Yongy flashes are the equal to Metz 45-series handle-mount flashes...  yes they are!!! ..and Lindsay Lohan is as good an actress as any working today! lol


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## Derrel (Apr 17, 2013)

2X180WSTROBE-2X803-1SB-1UMB

Speedotron Force 5 1000 watt second Two Monolight Flash System with Case.

Identical. Same thing, basically. One's JUST as good as the other.

I mean, right????


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## Buckster (Apr 17, 2013)

Derrel said:


> nickzou said:
> 
> 
> > I thought people's opinion of the YN-560 were generally positive around here.
> ...


Here's what they all have in common: They all get the job at hand done, just like their more expensive counterparts.  They fill your belly, quench your thirst, get you where you want to go, give folks who seem to need it their daily dose of propaganda, make some folks feel safer, get those who drink drunk, and catch fish.

When you can identify what brand and model of speedlight was used just by looking at images, and can teach the rest of us how to see that difference, I'll convert.  :thumbup:


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## Buckster (Apr 17, 2013)

Derrel said:


> 2X180WSTROBE-2X803-1SB-1UMB
> 
> Speedotron Force 5 1000 watt second Two Monolight Flash System with Case.
> 
> ...


Compare apples to apples on power in w/s and modifier size, and we can talk about setting them up side by side to test what the resulting photos look like.


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## Ballistics (Apr 17, 2013)

YN560 is a high quality option. Those who say otherwise, are either biased, or have never seen one in person. 
I own a nikon sb-700, YN560, and YN465. The YN560 is more robust, and has a higher quality feel than the sb700.

I paid $45 for the YN560, and I paid 300 for the SB700.

I'll never buy another Nikon flash again.


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## Derrel (Apr 17, 2013)

Let's all see what David Hobby says about the rubbish that are Chinese flash units and triggers, shall we, then reconvene here later, and talk about how fantastic Chinese crap is!!

Strobist: What China Doesn't Understand

Those who say ANY Yongyflash or Yongy product is a "high-quality" flash have never, ever, not even ONCE, held or used a Metz 45-series flash...it's like toy crap versus solid, almost hand-made luxury...

Seriously...laughing at the young man who calls Yongy a "high-quality" flash. Seriously....laughing!


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## Ballistics (Apr 17, 2013)

Derrel said:


> Let's all see what David Hobby says about the rubbish that are Chinese flash units and triggers, shall we, then reconvene here later, and talk about how fantastic Chinese crap is!!
> 
> Strobist: What China Doesn't Understand
> 
> ...



Well, there goes your assumptions about me...again.  I've shot with a Metz 45, Vivitar 85, All of the SBxxx series flashes, Speedotrons etc. I could really go on.

You're trying to compare apples to oranges and it's flat out retarded. Lets compare stadium lighting to the YN560 next. Seems like it's the same ballpark.

Or... we could stick to comparing things that are in the same category. Like the Nikon speedlights. I know, it's a crazy concept.


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## Buckster (Apr 17, 2013)

Derrel said:


> Let's all see what David Hobby says about the rubbish that are Chinese flash units and triggers, shall we, then reconvene here later, and talk about how fantastic Chinese crap is!!
> 
> Strobist: What China Doesn't Understand
> 
> ...


Cite specifics on what's NOT high quality about them, especially in comparison to what you deem a "high quality" flash.  Plastic thickness?  Flash tube effectiveness?  Ability to fit into a hot shoe?  Ability of the on/off switch to work?  What?  Be specific.  Use measurements.  Provide real data, not just loud grunts and "harumphs".

You siding with David Hobby!  LOL!  That's funny!  

Look at the date it was written first.  Those units have since proven themselves as reliable and very good for the price.

As for the pricing issues, sorry - can't help you there.  I'm not going to pay 5 to 10 times as much for essentially the same ability just because it's "unfair" to those non-Chinese manufacturers who want to charge more for products that don't offer substantially more for my dollar, especially when it won't make a bit of difference other than the fact that I paid so much more and didn't get more ability for it. If it matters to you that the trade agreements between the two countries put things on uneven playing fields, then write your congressional representatives about it and don't ever buy another Chinese product, nor even a Chinese manufactured product, Mr. "I Love Apple With All My Heart".

Meanwhile, it is what it is, and here in the real world, money talks and bullspit walks.  Here's where the bullspit hits the sidewalk for me: You can't see any difference in the photos and I don't have any interest in spending money needlessly.

But that's just me.  YMMV


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## jdsfighter (Apr 17, 2013)

So aside from Darrell, everyone thinks this is a decent quality setup to get my feet wet, so to say. Until I can get something a bit better?


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## Mach0 (Apr 17, 2013)

OP - I've never tried the yn's but I've had great success with the older sb's. I love the sb28 and you can find them for the same price and they have a decent power output.


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## jdsfighter (Apr 17, 2013)

I went ahead and made my purchase, I bought the kit in the first post with some very minor modifications, I upped the wireless triggers to wireless instead of IR, I skipped the reflector simply because the ones I wanted were sold out, so I'll grab them here in a couple weeks when I have more money xD.

Amazon approved me for $800, so I went ahead and maxed it out as well as tossing in a few hundred of my own. I'm excited, that $800 will greatly help when ordering my lenses in the future.


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## nickzou (Apr 18, 2013)

I have used the YN-560 and thought it was fantastic. I have the SB-600 and I found I liked the YN-560 better. I have a YN-460, which... is a little weak but a great little unit for the price. Oh and everyone here likes to talk about how great the Vivitar 285-HV is. I don't understand that it all. The head doesn't swivel, it goes from 1/16 power to 1/4 without a 1/8 option which I found odd and it's recycles pretty slowly. I don't know why this flash has such a good reputation.


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## Derrel (Apr 18, 2013)

There's a new thread here in the Lighting forum that popped up just last night. http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...ution-flash-wireless-transmitter-problem.html

Be sure to read it to check out Buckster's 18-point checklist to make sure cheap flash triggers will actually function.

Buckster's list is quite thorough, and details (most) all potential pitfalls that inexpensive Chinese knock-off flash triggers are prone to.

Glad you got some stuff on the way!!!!!!! AWESOME!!! You will have some fun with it, and probably get some *super-cool pics* after a bit of practice!


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## Buckster (Apr 18, 2013)

nickzou said:


> Oh and everyone here likes to talk about how great the Vivitar 285-HV is. I don't understand that it all. The head doesn't swivel, it goes from 1/16 power to 1/4 without a 1/8 option which I found odd and it's recycles pretty slowly. I don't know why this flash has such a good reputation.


From my observations over the past 40+ years or so, it's because when it came out about 40 years ago, it was the shiznit compared to others, so it got a good reputation and sold a lot of units over the years and a lot of photographers used them.  Those photographers are old-timers now and are still talking it up at though it's still the shiznit because they can't stop reminiscing about their glory days and the gear they used way back when and how awesome it was compared to what they deem "today's cheap Chinese crap" (that most of them don't have and have never used, so they have no actual way to definitively make the negative claims they do, and "curmudgeon" has become a new hobby for many of them).  Noobs pick up on that talk, believe it, and pass it on because they think it shows that they know something if they agree with the old-timers who are still living in the past.


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## Buckster (Apr 18, 2013)

Derrel said:


> There's a new thread here in the Lighting forum that popped up just last night. http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...ution-flash-wireless-transmitter-problem.html
> 
> Be sure to read it to check out Buckster's 18-point checklist to make sure cheap flash triggers will actually function.
> 
> Buckster's list is quite thorough, and details (most) all potential pitfalls that inexpensive Chinese knock-off flash triggers are prone to.


Except they're NOT "prone" to them, and you have no data to show that they ARE "prone" to them.  It's just your bias at work badmouthing them like it's a hobby for you or something.

My list is lengthy because I just wanted to cover anything and everything I could think of to help the OP troubleshoot whatever the problem might be.  Chances are it's a simple user error, which can happen with ANY trigger or flash or camera body, and you know that's true.

Most folks have NO TROUBLE at all with them - they plug them in, turn them on, and fire away with no problems at all, as evidenced by the MANY users on this very forum even who have and use them with no trouble, and go on to say they work great, not to mention the many, many more outside this forum having the same positive experiences with them.


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## Ballistics (Apr 18, 2013)

Derrel said:


> There's a new thread here in the Lighting forum that popped up just last night. http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...ution-flash-wireless-transmitter-problem.html
> 
> Be sure to read it to check out Buckster's 18-point checklist to make sure cheap flash triggers will actually function.
> 
> ...



Why are you so manipulative? It's kind of sad how you distort and twist reality.

Buckster starts out his post with:


> I have 8 RF-603 triggers and have used them a LOT for about a year now, with no misfires at all. They've all been very reliable for me.



And doesn't at all talk about pitfalls or that the triggers he owns are prone to. He provides a checklist that is for ALL triggers. But, you of course need
to skew and distort in order to create dishonest leverage. And I've seen you do this a few times.


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## Qveon (Apr 19, 2013)

I'm with Buckster, you sir are my new hero. I have two yong 560II's and never had a lick of problems. I won't lie my first flash I purchased was a canon 430ex, but I only use that for TTL since yong didn't have TTL. But I have two sets of 603 and 622 triggers and never had a bit of trouble with any of them. This will probably drive you nuts but I have Neewer TT560's that I use primarily as my studio strobes and for what they are and what they cost they work excellent for my studies and projects. And for the records I cannot find anything to disagree with from what Buck has said, maybe the "buy local buy american" for that angle to keep jobs here but my "rubbish" works great for my purposes and it is what I am going to use till my part-time photography produces profits in a range where I would just buy expensive equipment just cause I can. Till then you'll see the majority of my shots are taken with the Neewer TT560's.

All in all the best line in this thread was: When you can identify what brand and model of speedlight was used just by looking at images, and can teach the rest of us how to see that difference, I'll convert.​:thumbup:
Accept I still won't convert until I need to reach that level and the return on my investment would make it a wise decision


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## IgsEMT (Apr 20, 2013)

nickzou said:


> I have used the YN-560 and thought it was fantastic. I have the SB-600 and I found I liked the YN-560 better. I have a YN-460, which... is a little weak but a great little unit for the price. Oh and everyone here likes to talk about how great the Vivitar 285-HV is. I don't understand that it all. The head doesn't swivel, it goes from 1/16 power to 1/4 without a 1/8 option which I found odd and it's recycles pretty slowly. I don't know why this flash has such a good reputation.



I've inherited vivitars that were converted to armitars (round head). When my mentor passed away, some of the gear that was left were 283 and 285. I started working with this guy in '99 and he already didn't use them (used quantum).

First the bad: ridiculously slow recycling time. That really kills me.
The good the quality of light that I get is the same as I get from Quantum Qflash only it didn't cost me $1000. 
OnLocation portraits : vivitars are my GoTo gear. 
As for other name brands and 3rd party brand speedlites.... everyone of my pieces of gear underwent maintenance or repair, repairing a Nikon flash was much efficient then repairing Metz. In some instances, I feel it is better to purchase a brand name product for the sake of manufacturer's warranty rather then saving few $ and having potential problem in the future.

Just my opinion.


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