# Do you think it would be ok to start charging?



## Fusselinchen (Jan 6, 2012)

So I have been taking pictures for free for a while and a couple months ago started making model release forms so i could share some online.
I only have a facebook page as of right now and i dont think of myself as a pro at all, but my family, friends and some customers have been telling me that i need to start charging...
but especially when i look at other photographers pictures i dont feel like i should.
i look like a complete beginner in my eyes when i compare my pictures to the ones i see from others that actually do charge.
so i was looking to see what professionals have to say about my work,

to take a look at what i have done so far - Purple Bliss Photography | Facebook - ETA - photos attached to bottom post!

i DO have a business license for my page, just because i didnt want my neighbors to get me in trouble since they see so many people walking in and out of here and they know i am taking pictures... (i dont have to pay taxes unless i would make a certain amount of money a year).

so...what do you think?
tips, tricks, constructive criticism?
and if you think i would be ok to charge, what do you think would be an ok amount? i certainly dont want to over charge, but i dont want to undersell either if i do end up charging anything at all. :er:


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## tirediron (Jan 6, 2012)

You're doing well, and I suppose if people are willing to pay, then you can charge them, but I see a lot of areas for improvement in your work.  There are WB issues, cropping & compositional issues, and exposure issues.  What I would suggest is either find a working professional to understudy or take some lessons.  What I would suggest is that you pick four of what you consider to be your BEST images and post them here for critique.


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## KmH (Jan 6, 2012)

It's virtually impossible for someone in the USA or in Canada, to tell you what to charge in Germany.

But, I can say that a key to having a successful business is to have a good, written business and marketing plan.

The business plan is essential for helping you determine how much you need to charge.

How to write a business plan - Bing


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## Fusselinchen (Jan 6, 2012)

tirediron said:


> You're doing well, and I suppose if people are willing to pay, then you can charge them, but I see a lot of areas for improvement in your work.  There are WB issues, cropping & compositional issues, and exposure issues.  What I would suggest is either find a working professional to understudy or take some lessons.  What I would suggest is that you pick four of what you consider to be your BEST images and post them here for critique.



yea, i know about the WB issues, I really need to learn more about photoshop...everything i know i learned from youtube...
i would love to get some mentoring, but when I looked online people charge 300+ for 3 hours mentoring in a class online and thats just too much for me at this moment.
I did post another thread earlier about this issue and hope that i have a solution for my camera and I always make *customers* aware that I am no real pro...
When I was 18 I had professional pictures done once and paid over 350 euros (so almost $450) for getting 10 pictures done and not even getting a CD...I could NEVER charge even close to that for this little bit of work...
I only take pictures, work on them, burn them on a CD and give it to the customer.
I do go where the customer wants me to go and make all the changes they want and make my own collages and what not, but thats it.
I always tell them it would probably be cheaper for them to order their own stuff online with the picture I take.

as far as understudy - I have looked around and asked the photographers in a 20mile radius (which are only 3) and none of them are able to right now. 
another reason i signed up for this forum, so i could at least get online help if i need anything. 


as far as posting the picture on here goes - yea i guess i could do that, i have to admit it was kind of the lazy way out to just post the link to the facebook page


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## cgipson1 (Jan 6, 2012)

I checked three of your photo albums, Happy birthday rylee, Manger family, and Baby kevin. White Balance is way off on most of your shots.. you really need to work on that.

Green family and some others.. Outdoors with harsh light, you really need to learn to use fill flash, or reflectors. Hard shadows on faces are not good.

The Miss V boudoir shots.. her skin needs some pp.. I can see stretch marks, that should at least be softened. Color is all over too.. way yellow on some. Are you using incandescent continuous lighting or something? If so, work on your WB.

Looks like you have a good eye, but some of the other basic technical stuff looks weak.


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## Fusselinchen (Jan 6, 2012)

KmH said:


> It's virtually impossible for someone in the USA or in Canada, to tell you what to charge in Germany.
> 
> But, I can say that a key to having a successful business is to have a good, written business and marketing plan.
> 
> ...



I mostly work with americans and we are most likely moving back to the states within the next 2 1/2 years, thats why i asked on here instead of a german page.
usually i convert my dollar amounts into euros if i end up having someone german. 

and thank you for the tip with the business plan!


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## Fusselinchen (Jan 6, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> I checked three of your photo albums, Happy birthday rylee, Manger family, and Baby kevin. White Balance is way off on most of your shots.. you really need to work on that.
> 
> Green family and some others.. Outdoors with harsh light, you really need to learn to use fill flash, or reflectors. Hard shadows on faces are not good.
> 
> ...



which is exactly the reason i dont want to charge just yet! i still have so much to learn, yet nobody around to teach me...
i hope this forum will help me a little. 

like posted above, i know about the WB, i posted a topic before this one and i hope the responses will have helped me to resolve this issue - i will try it out later today.

as far as outdoor goes - how would i use fill flash? or reflectors? i am always alone and i thought someone else would have to hold the reflectors? what equipment would you advice me to get for this kind of work?

and miss v - i knew about the stretchmarks,  but the girl didnt want me to photoshop that. she allowed me to smooth out her face, but not her body for some reason...and yes
, i used the continuous lighting on this one because i had issues with the flash, which will hopefully be resolved now (like i said, talked about this in another thread)


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## Fusselinchen (Jan 6, 2012)

here some of the pictures i personally like best...i have a hard time deciding and i know some of them have special stuff to it like the b&w or seventies kind of thing etc. so i hope its ok to post this many like this.
just in case you are wondering - my CDs usually have all the originals and then all edits on it (the original slightly altered, like my attempts of WB fix etc and 2 b&ws and other things)


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## tirediron (Jan 6, 2012)

Fusselinchen said:


> ...yea, i know about the WB issues, I really need to learn more about photoshop...


NO!  WRONG!  You need to learn how to take photographs properly!  Photoshop and other editing software are NOT tools to fix errors, they are tools to enhance and improve already good images.  I rarely spend more than 5 minutes on post-processing, and many images are done in a lot less time.  90% of what I do in post is leveling and cropping for print.  I will do a few small brightness and saturation tweaks if needed, but most of the time I don't.  That's because I get all those pesky little details right in the camera!

If there's no working photographer that you can study with, check out local camera clubs; they can be a wealth of knowledge.  If, as it sounds, you are the spouse of a US military member, than there's likely even a club on post.  If not, there's certain to be one within a few km.


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## tirediron (Jan 6, 2012)

First of all, NEVER release anything but final, edited images.  NEVER give clients (whether you're paid for the work or not) the right to edit images.  With respect to the images you've posted, that's way too many for which to provide detailed critique, so I'll take a quick swing through and touch on some highlights (in future, please number them to make responding easier).


1.  Centered, tilted horizon, fill light needed.
2.  Not bad; slightly soft lower right, cropped too tightly on top.
3.  Odd crop and the colour cast/treatment makes it look like something from a sci-fi movie.
4.  Fill light desparately needed.  Compositionally, if the subjects are looking at something out of frame, the image is usually stronger if the viewer can see what they're looking at.
5.  Too centred, blue cast (WB), subject looking away from camera
6.  Nice moment, but underexposed.  Unusual, but not necessarily bad composition.
7.  Cliche, but popular; rather awkwardly cropped.  I would suggest either above, or below but NOT through the breasts.
8.  Noisy, yellow cast, awkward crop of the mother's right arm.
9.  Good, aside from WB.
10. Under-exposed and cropped left elbow.
11. This say "I've got a leg cramp".  MUCH greater subject to background separation needed.
12. "Where did I put my purse?"
13. Fill light, more background separation.
14. Think vertical!
15. Awkward crop, background separation.
16. Not bad.
17. Good! (I assume the C-135 processed look is intentional).
18. NOT fond of the shin colour.  WB issues.

Just my $00.02 worth - your mileage may vary.

~John


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## Fusselinchen (Jan 6, 2012)

tirediron said:


> Fusselinchen said:
> 
> 
> > ...yea, i know about the WB issues, I really need to learn more about photoshop...
> ...





tirediron said:


> First of all, NEVER release anything but final,  edited images.  NEVER give clients (whether you're paid for the work or  not) the right to edit images.  With respect to the images you've  posted, that's way too many for which to provide detailed critique, so  I'll take a quick swing through and touch on some highlights (in future,  please number them to make responding easier).
> 
> 
> 1.  Centered, tilted horizon, fill light needed.
> ...



i quoted both your responses so i dont have to respond twice.


first off - i appreciate your critic, i will pay more attention to the things you said next time!!! 

and i guess i will be spending my sunday looking for a camera club!
on post is out of the question because we live too far away for me to drive there as we only have one car at the moment.


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## Tee (Jan 6, 2012)

Your friends and family are telling you to charge because you produce Facebook images.  In another thread you asked what an aperture was.  That alone should tell you maybe you need a little more time learning.  There's nothing wrong with having friends and locals come over for you to practice on.  When you start charging there's an expectation you're going to be dialed in on every shoot and produce quality work.  I feel that the first image is your strongest.  It appears you're relying too much on post processing/ actions/ presets to cover up mistakes made in camera with a few of your other images.  You can begin right here, on this forum, by posting 3-4 images and asking for critque.


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## MLeeK (Jan 6, 2012)

There are more than major issues in those images. 
Here's the question: Can you recreate that very first image that is pretty decent EVERY TIME in EVERY SITUATION? 
No, you can't because not ONE of the rest of the images have the image quality that the first one does. 
You cannot reliably create an image that YOU envision in the camera in any situation. It seems as if you aren't even creating it in your controlled situations. 
You need to learn Shutter Speed, ISO and Aperture 100%. Not only how they control exposure but how they control the creative elements of the image. 
You need to learn white balance and how it works in the camera. 
You need to learn composition.
You aren't CREATING anything in the image, you are firing your shutter and hoping for the best. 

Have you LOOKED at professional images and then put them next to yours? 

Here is a maternity shot. How does yours come in with something like that? 





How about a newborn...





And a portrait with some MAJOR flaws in it...





the point here is that you aren't even producing good snapshots with good thought to the lighting, properly balanced and composed with a good or even remotely close white balance. You have to master the basics at the very least. 

There are many many many books out there for learning. There are a million websites explaining the exposure triangle. There are a ton of forums you can get feedback and help on learning things on. Start first and foremost with composition. Get a calibrator for your monitor because I really don't think you are seeing how truly bad these look. I think your monitor is making the color in these look much better than it is in most of them. 
You don't need photoshop skills. I do little to nothing to any of my images in photoshop. It's a time consuming process to edit in photoshop. You cannot make a profit if every photo takes you 10 minutes of work in editing. I am simply tweaking my curves, sharpening and popping my images for the look I want. It takes me less than 1 minute per image to achieve what I posted here because it's done RIGHT in the camera. If I had shown each of those sessions 30 images that had taken me 10 minutes of time in photoshop I'd have worked for 15 hours JUST in photoshop. PLUS shooting time. Plus admin time... That would have totaled out to be about a 40 hour week for THREE sessions. 
Which means I'd have had to make my cost of business (we'll go cheap cuz you have very little in overhead yet) of say $300 per week. That doesn't pay you-only the costs for owning a business. Then you'd have wanted to be paid a little for that. Minimum wage is about what? $8 in most places? To make MINIMUM wage you would have had to have the sessions for those 3 shoots priced at $206 each. Is your work worth $206 USD before prints?


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## Fusselinchen (Jan 7, 2012)

thanks everyone, i really appreciate your feedback, and i know you are right! 
i am very hopeful that i will learn a lot on here (hence the reason i signed up for this forum).


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