# Buy a stove, open a restaurant.



## PhotoWrangler (Nov 6, 2013)

People don't buy stoves and think they can open a restaurant, why do people think they can buy a camera and open a "studio"?

I know this subject has been discussed ad-nauseum, and beaten worse than a dead horse, but I swear in the last two weeks I've had at least three friends show up as "owner of So and So photography" on Facebook. 

Now these are people with absolutely NO photographic background. People who I went to high school with who were so absolutely not into ANY art classes at all, much less photography. They are "advertising" their "studio," and for the love of God, all of their stupid little "mini-sessions." REALLY?!?

This is people that I know, or that I've known for years. People who NEVER put an ounce into learning photography and now they have gone into business? 

I just don't get it.


/vent.


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## deeky (Nov 6, 2013)

Actually it makes perfect sense.  Unlike a stove, even top end, these fancy new digital cameras do everything for you.  Just turn it on, click, click, ka-ching, ka-ching.  And then 'Facebook' and 'Free advertising' both start with 'f', which explains everything else.  Could it be any clearer?  _(insert sarcasm here)_


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## amolitor (Nov 6, 2013)

What REALLY hurts is that they're better than you, isn't it? C'mon, come clean.


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## robbins.photo (Nov 6, 2013)

PhotoWrangler said:


> People don't buy stoves and think they can open a restaurant, why do people think they can buy a camera and open a "studio"?
> 
> I know this subject has been discussed ad-nauseum, and beaten worse than a dead horse, but I swear in the last two weeks I've had at least three friends show up as "owner of So and So photography" on Facebook.
> 
> ...



The horse is dead.  In fact he died of nausea.  Then he got beaten.  And then beaten some more.  And then there was some additional beating.  Then I think he got run over by a truck, and then.. lol.. well, you get the point.

I guess my question would be, who cares?  If they want to proclaim themselves as professional photographers, or professional ballerina's, what difference does it make?  I mean seriously, at what point does the professional photographer who actually is worthy of being a pro finally say, you know what, I have some faith in my clientele.  I mean lets face it, if the client cares about quality and is willing to pay for a real professional they will.  The ones that won't and will hire schmo's like this, don't.  They were never going to be clients in the first place.  They want a wedding shot for $100 or less, or whatever it happens to be - that's why they aren't picky about seeing a portfolio or asking for references.  

I guess my point here is pretty simple - I just don't see the point of getting all hacked off and the non-professional pro, because in the long run they aren't taking clients a real pro would have gotten anyway.  On the extremely rare occasion when that might happen, well the client will learn their lesson and they won't quibble about price the next time they need a pro.

So please, for the love of all that is holy, let the dang horse lay down and be dead now.


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## 480sparky (Nov 6, 2013)

PhotoWrangler said:


> ...........I just don't get it..............



So don't bother.  Let them have their 2 months of 'being in business'.  They'll learn within that time it's not the piece of cake they thought it would be. Just worry about yourself.


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## PhotoWrangler (Nov 6, 2013)

amolitor said:


> What REALLY hurts is that they're better than you, isn't it? C'mon, come clean.



Well one is a better hairstylist than me, the other is probably a better secretary than me, and since I quit drinking the other one is probably a better drunk than me. 

The jury is still out on the photography issue though.


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## PhotoWrangler (Nov 6, 2013)

robbins.photo said:


> So please, for the love of all that is holy, let the dang horse lay down and be dead now.




I dont care if they want to call themselves professional Himalayan whistle kids... they can call themselves what they want. And they can start any business they want too.


What I still have yet to figure out is why this industry gives off the impression that its easy to make money in? Or that anyone can do it simply by buying a tool. What is it about this industry that makes someone think "I can do that" and hang out a shingle. 

I can make a sandwhich, or a mean pot of crawfish e'toufee, but I'm not renting out restaurant space. I watch HGtv, but I'm not buying lumber at Home Depot to build houses with. I've watched my sister dance professionally since she was 11 but I'm not lacing up my ballet slippers.

THAT is whats most insulting. That people randomly thing this is easy. That there isn't any technical knowledge behind it. That its as simple as buying and expensive camera and clicking a button.


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## SCraig (Nov 6, 2013)

PhotoWrangler said:


> What I still have yet to figure out is why this industry gives off the impression that its easy to make money in? Or that anyone can do it simply by buying a tool. What is it about this industry that makes someone think "I can do that" and hang out a shingle.


It's very simple: The vast majority of the people that view their photographs know less about photography than they do and their standards are so low that anyone with a P&S or a cell phone camera can wow them with their abilities.  That, in turn, convinces people that they have talent far above what their abilities are able to sustain.  And THAT, in turn, convinces them that they are ready to "Go Pro".


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## amolitor (Nov 6, 2013)

PhotoWrangler said:


> THAT is whats most insulting. That people randomly thing this is easy. That there isn't any technical knowledge behind it. That its as simple as buying and expensive camera and clicking a button.



I make no judgement about whether this is true or not, but merely suggest the following thought experiment: What if it _actually is_ that simple?


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## 480sparky (Nov 6, 2013)

PhotoWrangler said:


> .......What I still have yet to figure out is why this industry gives off the impression that its easy to make money in? Or that anyone can do it simply by buying a tool. What is it about this industry that makes someone think "I can do that" and hang out a shingle. ..........




I've never gotten the impression 'the industry' give the impression that being a photographer is easy.

What these people are doing is totally independent of 'the industry', and real business in general.  If they were truly interested in opening and operating a 'real' business, they would do market research first.  That alone would show them the facts... "Holy crap!  EVERYONE with a DSLR is a professional photographer!  NO WAY can I compete with that!  I think I'll look into opening a restaurant!"


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## PhotoWrangler (Nov 6, 2013)

480sparky said:


> I've never gotten the impression 'the industry' give the impression that being a photographer is easy.
> 
> What these people are doing is totally independent of 'the industry', and real business in general.  If they were truly interested in opening and operating a 'real' business, they would do market research first.  That alone would show them the facts... "Holy crap!  EVERYONE with a DSLR is a professional photographer!  NO WAY can I compete with that!  I think I'll look into opening a restaurant!"




Well, you do have a point there.


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## robbins.photo (Nov 6, 2013)

PhotoWrangler said:


> robbins.photo said:
> 
> 
> > So please, for the love of all that is holy, let the dang horse lay down and be dead now.
> ...



Costs a lot more to rent out restaurant space and get all the permits and crap.  Guess what, if folks could open a restaurant for $500 bucks and try to start selling their crappy food, well then your friends on face book would most likely be advertising Professional Photography and Catering Services.  

If you feel insulted that someone else is using the same title, then I suggest the problem here is not with them - it's with you.  You need to think about that, seriously.  Look, if you are a pro photographer and actually doing it for a living then guess what, you've made the big leagues.  So why in hades are you getting all worked up about some bozo playing triple AAA ball and bragging about it on facebook?  Take the time, energy and effort your wasting on this and do something productive with it that will improve your own business.  

Seriously, leave the horse alone already.  It's deader than Elvis.


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## texkam (Nov 6, 2013)

Do you realize how many restaurants fail? After somebody loses their shirt in the restaurant business they try to become a photographer.


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## PhotoWrangler (Nov 6, 2013)

texkam said:


> Do you realize how many restaurants fail? After somebody loses their shirt in the restaurant business they try to become a photographer.




Ah! So thats what it is? LOL


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## PhotoWrangler (Nov 6, 2013)

robbins.photo said:


> Costs a lot more to rent out restaurant space and get all the permits and crap.  Guess what, if folks could open a restaurant for $500 bucks and try to start selling their crappy food, well then your friends on face book would most likely be advertising Professional Photography and Catering Services.
> 
> If you feel insulted that someone else is using the same title, then I suggest the problem here is not with them - it's with you.  You need to think about that, seriously.  Look, if you are a pro photographer and actually doing it for a living then guess what, you've made the big leagues.  So why in hades are you getting all worked up about some bozo playing triple AAA ball and bragging about it on facebook?  Take the time, energy and effort your wasting on this and do something productive with it that will improve your own business.
> 
> Seriously, leave the horse alone already.  It's deader than Elvis.





I've had my stent in 'business'. I learned my lesson. And I've come to peace with the fact that I'll probably never be a 'professional' photographer with a full time income. That's why I'm still a police dispatcher and 911 operator full time. And to tell you the truth, after the lessons I've learned, I don't know that I'll ever try to be in 'full time' photo business ever again. Even as a second career.

It's not about titles, and being jealous of someone else calling themselves a photographer or even opening their own studio.

What its about is the fact that people discount the knowledge that we as photographers work so hard to achieve. They cut down the tower of technical know how to nothing but a stump.

Do you not find it the least bit insulting when someone looks at your work and says "thats a good picture, you must have a nice camera!"? Its the same principle.


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## 480sparky (Nov 6, 2013)

PhotoWrangler said:


> Well, you do have a point there.



And if I had any hair, I could comb it so no one see it. :mrgreen:


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## PhotoWrangler (Nov 6, 2013)

Well you're wasting your time here, so you might as well say something about it...


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## Steve5D (Nov 6, 2013)

PhotoWrangler said:


> Now these are people with absolutely NO photographic background. People who I went to high school with who were so absolutely not into ANY art classes at all, much less photography.



I was unaware that high school photography classes were so important. Who knows  where I'd be if I'd spent more time in them. Who knows where my  buddy, who's the team photographer for the New York Jets, would be had  he not flunked out of "Beginning Photography" in 9th grade.

I'm 51 years old. I've got a lot more days behind me that I have in  front of me. Accordingly, I refuse to allow myself to waste even a  fraction of a second worrying about or ranting about what other people  do with their "photography business". In the end, it changes nothing,  and proves only that I've got time to waste whining about someone else's  business...


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## robbins.photo (Nov 6, 2013)

PhotoWrangler said:


> robbins.photo said:
> 
> 
> > Costs a lot more to rent out restaurant space and get all the permits and crap.  Guess what, if folks could open a restaurant for $500 bucks and try to start selling their crappy food, well then your friends on face book would most likely be advertising Professional Photography and Catering Services.
> ...



Do I find it insulting?  Nope.  Not in the slightest.  I know full well I could hand them my camera and not be able to reproduce the same results, because they lack the necessary skills and knowledge base.  Knowing that is more than enough for me, so normally I'll just thank them and tell them that I'm glad they liked the picture.  I don't find it necessary to prove that to them, nor do I find it worth expending any energy on whatsoever.

To tell you the truth you'll probably do the world a lot more good in your current profession than you ever would as a professional photographer.  I'm also a dedicated amateur, I have no desire to be a pro or to run my own business.  I'm happy with my career choice, and frankly I think it makes me a much better photographer.  Nothing against the pro's mind you, but I have no constraints, no time frames, no preset expectations to deal with.  I can go out and take pictures that are of interest to me, anytime I please.  I don't need to sell them so I can eat next week.  And that sort of freedom can be a really wonderful thing, if you use it to your advantage.

So seriously I could care less about folks that try to "play pro" - if they ask my advice, sure, I'll offer it.  But for the most part I see no purpose served in getting upset by these folks.  It's not going to make my pictures any better, and in the final analysis when it comes to photography that's were my attention is focused.  What can I do to improve.  How can I make this shot better, or get the shot I missed last time around?


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## 480sparky (Nov 6, 2013)

Part of the problem comes from what is referred to a "Wal-Marting".  Quality, service, professionalism, warranty, results are meaningless to consumers any more.  All that matters is price.  Low price is king.







Every week, I submit bids to potential customers, only to be told they can find someone cheaper.  I know full well they're searching Craigslist for unemployed, second-year apprentices who have a truck and some hand tools.  Their unemployment checks ain't paying the bills, so they hang out their own shingle and pretend to run an electrical  business.  I also know full well they'll close up inside of 6 months.

I stopped worrying about them a long time ago.  They will never go away.  So instead of harping and griping about it, I _learned to sell my skills, experience and ability_ instead..


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## pgriz (Nov 6, 2013)

Ah, come on people.  The message that photography is "easy" is on every advertisement for photography gear that there is.  It's reasonably subtle - they use gorgeous images and say that they were taken by "X" camera with this or that lens and this other accessory.  So people think (as the marketers want them to think) "oh, if I had this camera and that lens and this other accessory, I could make pictures like in this brochure!"  The brochures DON'T tell the full story of how those gorgeous images were actually acquired, and what post-processing was done to render them so gorgeous - why muddle the message with persnickety facts?  And when you don't know what you don't know, the red flags that SHOULD be waving, just aren't within the awareness horizon.

We tend to be an acquisitive society, in which almost every need can be taken care of by the purchase of some slickly-packaged product.  Who has time to properly learn things or acquire skills?  We're so busy, busy, busy (much of that is to make money so we can buy more stuff), that we forget to "live".  Yet it is in those quiet moments of introspection and contemplation that we begin to see through the fog and start discerning purpose and meaning.  We're in a hurry to get somewhere, anywhere, and we lose the ability to appreciate the journey, the moment.  

So for all those people who want to be instant pros, may the lessons you learn at UHK be not too painful.  On the other hand, it's really invigorating to see how deep you can get on a tankful of ignorance.


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## robbins.photo (Nov 6, 2013)

Steve5D said:


> PhotoWrangler said:
> 
> 
> > Now these are people with absolutely NO photographic background. People who I went to high school with who were so absolutely not into ANY art classes at all, much less photography.
> ...



Probably asking folks, would you like fries with that?  Funny how it is usually our failures that drive us to success.



> I'm 51 years old. I've got a lot more days behind me that I have in  front of me. Accordingly, I refuse to allow myself to waste even a  fraction of a second worrying about or ranting about what other people  do with their "photography business". In the end, it changes nothing,  and proves only that I've got time to waste whining about someone else's  business...



So what your saying here, if I might be so bold to paraphrase, "Yup, that is one dead horsey alright"

Lol


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## PhotoWrangler (Nov 6, 2013)

robbins.photo said:


> Do I find it insulting?  Nope.  Not in the slightest.  I know full well I could hand them my camera and not be able to reproduce the same results, because they lack the necessary skills and knowledge base.  Knowing that is more than enough for me, so normally I'll just thank them and tell them that I'm glad they liked the picture.  I don't find it necessary to prove that to them, nor do I find it worth expending any energy on whatsoever.
> 
> To tell you the truth you'll probably do the world a lot more good in your current profession than you ever would as a professional photographer.  I'm also a dedicated amateur, I have no desire to be a pro or to run my own business.  I'm happy with my career choice, and frankly I think it makes me a much better photographer.  Nothing against the pro's mind you, but I have no constraints, no time frames, no preset expectations to deal with.  I can go out and take pictures that are of interest to me, anytime I please.  I don't need to sell them so I can eat next week.  And that sort of freedom can be a really wonderful thing, if you use it to your advantage.
> 
> So seriously I could care less about folks that try to "play pro" - if they ask my advice, sure, I'll offer it.  But for the most part I see no purpose served in getting upset by these folks.  It's not going to make my pictures any better, and in the final analysis when it comes to photography that's were my attention is focused.  What can I do to improve.  How can I make this shot better, or get the shot I missed last time around?




Well I personally find it incredibly insulting, but this is one post where I'll have to agree with you. Getting upset/irritated/aggrivated/annoyed or simply taking the time out of my day to post a random internet rant about it is useless in the grand scheme of things. And the only one that lost is me....


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## Steve5D (Nov 6, 2013)

robbins.photo said:


> So what your saying here, if I might be so bold to paraphrase, "Yup, that is one dead horsey alright"
> 
> Lol



Dead, buried, dug up and beaten again...


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## PhotoWrangler (Nov 6, 2013)

pgriz said:


> Ah, come on people.  The message that photography is "easy" is on every advertisement for photography gear that there is.  It's reasonably subtle - they use gorgeous images and say that they were taken by "X" camera with this or that lens and this other accessory.  So people think (as the marketers want them to think) "oh, if I had this camera and that lens and this other accessory, I could make pictures like in this brochure!"  The brochures DON'T tell the full story of how those gorgeous images were actually acquired, and what post-processing was done to render them so gorgeous - why muddle the message with persnickety facts?  And when you don't know what you don't know, the red flags that SHOULD be waving, just aren't within the awareness horizon.
> 
> We tend to be an acquisitive society, in which almost every need can be taken care of by the purchase of some slickly-packaged product.  Who has time to properly learn things or acquire skills?  We're so busy, busy, busy (much of that is to make money so we can buy more stuff), that we forget to "live".  Yet it is in those quiet moments of introspection and contemplation that we begin to see through the fog and start discerning purpose and meaning.  We're in a hurry to get somewhere, anywhere, and we lose the ability to appreciate the journey, the moment.
> 
> So for all those people who want to be instant pros, may the lessons you learn at UHK be not too painful.  On the other hand, it's really invigorating to see how deep you can get on a tankful of ignorance.




I'd "like" this 17 more times if I could.


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## PhotoWrangler (Nov 6, 2013)

Steve5D said:


> robbins.photo said:
> 
> 
> > So what your saying here, if I might be so bold to paraphrase, "Yup, that is one dead horsey alright"
> ...





But yet all of you still choose to chime in on such a topic....hmmmm.


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## Steve5D (Nov 6, 2013)

PhotoWrangler said:


> Well I personally find it incredibly insulting...



Why?

What bearing does what _they're_ doing have on what _you're_ doing?

Grow some thicker skin, have a Coke and a smile and forget about them. If you're any good, you've got nothing to worry about...


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## pgriz (Nov 6, 2013)

PhotoWrangler said:


> Steve5D said:
> 
> 
> > robbins.photo said:
> ...



Ah.  Sisyphus would have been proud of us.


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## Steve5D (Nov 6, 2013)

PhotoWrangler said:


> Steve5D said:
> 
> 
> > robbins.photo said:
> ...



Maybe you don't like reading opinions which run contrary to your own.

Maybe that's too bad...


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## PhotoWrangler (Nov 6, 2013)

Steve5D said:


> Why?
> 
> What bearing does what _they're_ doing have on what _you're_ doing?
> 
> Grow some thicker skin, have a Coke and a smile and forget about them. If you're any good, you've got nothing to worry about...





I know I have nothing to worry about.

And y'all please don't think I'm loosing sleep, or crawling up in the fetal position on the cold tile bawling my eyes out over this. It's not that serious. 

But it is a slight irritation.


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## PhotoWrangler (Nov 6, 2013)

Steve5D said:


> Dead, buried, dug up and beaten again...




I'll read anyones opinions. I just dont understand those of you who yell "beaten horse" and "waste of time" but yet still choose to do exactly what you're complaining about. and pipe up.



But yet all of you still choose to chime in on such a topic....hmmmm.[/QUOTE]

Maybe you don't like reading opinions which run contrary to your own.

Maybe that's too bad...[/QUOTE]


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## Steve5D (Nov 6, 2013)

PhotoWrangler said:


> Steve5D said:
> 
> 
> > Why?
> ...



You've yet to answer the big question, though: Why?


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## Steve5D (Nov 6, 2013)

PhotoWrangler said:


> I just dont understand those of you who yell "beaten horse" and "waste of time" but yet still choose to do exactly what you're complaining about.



Nobody was "yelling" anything. Stop being so dramatic.

What truly is a "waste of time" is whining about what someone else is doing, especially when you seem to lack the facility to explain why it bothers you. Pointing out that whining about it is a waste of time is perfectly acceptable...


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## PhotoWrangler (Nov 6, 2013)

Steve5D said:


> You've yet to answer the big question, though: Why?




I'm not going to indulge you with an answer, because any answer that I give you will sound self righteous. And if it doesn't, it will certainly be spun that way....


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## robbins.photo (Nov 6, 2013)

PhotoWrangler said:


> Well I personally find it incredibly insulting, but this is one post where I'll have to agree with you. Getting upset/irritated/aggrivated/annoyed or simply taking the time out of my day to post a random internet rant about it is useless in the grand scheme of things. And the only one that lost is me....



Well I would disagree there as well, that the only one who might have lost something in all of this is you.  Unfortunately with some it seems to be a pervasive attitude that leads to almost a "hazing culture" if you will.  It's not my place to judge who is worthy or unworthy of trying their hand at making money selling pictures.  I'm not the gatekeeper of the realm, nor would I ever wish to have that job.  

In the grand scheme of things the marketplace will take care of sorting that out, so let the marketplace do what it does and don't sweat it.  But I would advise you to really stop and seriously consider why you find it so insulting.  What is it that offends you so deeply?  Once you identify that then maybe you can start dealing with it.


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## Derrel (Nov 6, 2013)

"I feel yhour pain as well!"





PhotoWrangler said:


> People don't buy stoves and think they can open a restaurant, why do people think they can buy a camera and open a "studio"?
> 
> I know this subject has been discussed ad-nauseum, and beaten worse than a dead horse, but I swear in the last two weeks I've had at least three friends show up as "owner of So and So photography" on Facebook.
> 
> ...



Well, maybe this will cheer you up, Photowrangler!!!


  But in all seriousness, this article on-line by Kirk Tuck touches upon this issue, and he asks if maybe the bubble has burst...if maybe all these new instant professionals are going to disappear, and soon! I found his essay, and the 125+ comments to be VERY interesting reading.  http://visualsciencelab.blogspot.com/2013_08_04_archive.html


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## jaomul (Nov 7, 2013)

If dinner is nice I could not care less how experienced the chef was.  Dead beaten horse maybe.  People on high horses, ya


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## bratkinson (Nov 7, 2013)

As much as we'd all like to yell and scream and kick up and down, there ARE newbies out there doing weddings and actually getting paid for it!!  Lighting?  Not a clue.  Something other than AWB?  Not a clue.  Composition?  Not a clue.  Diagonal framing?  Not a problem!  Selective coloring?  Not a problem!  As long as there is SOMEBODY willing to pay for it, even at $200 for a whole wedding shoot?  Why NOT 'go for it'???  I have to wonder, though, how much the IRS gets of their $200 shoots...  

Some here will remember the 'pro' photographer briefly online here about a year ago that was/is doing 30-40 weddings a YEAR with only beginner gear, and inquired here as to what lens she should buy.  Hey, at least she was looking to actually LEARN from those who know (or think they know) what they are doing.  

And in my career as a mainframe computer consultant...I saw too many come into the field with their ink-still-wet 'computer sciences degree' and think they could design/program/implement absolutely anything in minimal time.  Think Obamacare website.  And where I work now, too.  Living PROOF they CAN!...        NOT!!!


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## 480sparky (Nov 7, 2013)

Derrel said:


> ...if maybe all these new instant professionals are going to disappear, and soon!.......



They will disappear. 


And another 125 will merrily take their place. And 6 months later, the process will be repeated.


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## Braineack (Nov 7, 2013)

Hello, Mr. Roark.


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## amolitor (Nov 7, 2013)

When you look at these people are get irritated, remember two things:

- Someone's looking at your portfolio and thinking 'where does that bozo get off charging for this terrible work?!!'
- Neither the people you're sneering at, nor the people sneering at you, are relevant. They're not your competition, they're not doing the thing you're doing. They have nothing to do with you.


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## ffarl (Nov 7, 2013)

PhotoWrangler said:


> People don't buy stoves and think they can open a restaurant, why do people think they can buy a camera and open a "studio"?
> 
> I know this subject has been discussed ad-nauseum, and beaten worse than a dead horse, but I swear in the last two weeks I've had at least three friends show up as "owner of So and So photography" on Facebook.
> 
> ...



   I haven't read through the whole thread, but as a former restaurant owner let me assure you, THEY DO!  People get it in their head all the time that they should be in the restaurant business.  Thing is, you have to be a very rich person because in this case, the "stove" is between $250K and $1Mil.  They take business away from folks that know what they're doing just like they do in photography, and it's annoying as hell.  The upside is, you usually get to watch it crash and burn, you just have to weather the storm while everyone tries out the new thing.  

   I'll grant you, it's more common in photography.  You can get a "Stove" for $300, or maybe even less!


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## imagemaker46 (Nov 7, 2013)

Unlike so many, maybe they decided to try running a business instead of you complaining about it. Does the Op have a studio, are you a professional photographer that feels competition from them?  If not, well let them learn, one way or the other success or failure, it will happen.


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## Tee (Nov 7, 2013)

It used to bug me because I wanted them to put as much effort into learning photography as I was.  Once I truly appreciated photography as something I was doing for me, I stopped worrying what they were doing.  I also learned I could block their posts on my news feed on Facebook.  That made things much more bearable.  Hehe.


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## TheLost (Nov 7, 2013)

A stay at home mom with a $400 camera doing 'mini-sessions' of family portraits and pet photos shouldn't get anybody's hackles up..  they are either going to:
1) Get bored and move onto selling hot scented waxes, hosting 'slumber parties' or whatever the next hot MLM idea is.
2) Build an actual business

If they actually pull off #2 then more power to them... if you find that threatening you should probably be asking yourself why (are they better then me? do they have a better business plan then me?)

IMHO... most go on to find the next 'get rich quick' idea once they find there is no money in photography


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## runnah (Nov 7, 2013)

TheLost said:


> A stay at home mom with a $400 camera doing 'mini-sessions' of family portraits and pet photos shouldn't get anybody's hackles up..  they are either going to:
> 1) Get bored and move onto selling hot scented waxes, hosting 'slumber parties' or whatever the next hot MLM idea is.
> 2) Build an actual business
> 
> ...



Wow I agree with you.


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## amolitor (Nov 7, 2013)

Or maybe they'll continue along, doing a few mini-sessions and getting a few bucks now and then. What does it matter? Unless you are also in a $50 mini-session business, they're not taking business away from you, and if you ARE in the $50 mini-session business then a) quit bitching and b) out-compete them.


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## TheLost (Nov 7, 2013)

runnah said:


> Wow I agree with you.



Crap!!! i'll try harder next time...


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## pgriz (Nov 7, 2013)

This phenomenon of having bright-eyed, bushy-tailed, and clueless wanna-bees starting a business (because, really, how hard can it be?) is happening in every field, and has been happening all the time.  One of my businesses is contracting, and I have a steady stream of new contractors who are trying to break into the market by pricing low.  They barely cover costs until something happens (accident, tax man comes calling, a job goes south and needs rescuing, etc.), and they're out of business.  To be replaced by more clueless wannabees.  Once you realize that there are ALWAYS gonna be people who think they're the geniuses that will make the fast buck, you adjust your strategy to filter out that "noise".  Part of that is to recognize that there is a whole market category who will eagerly "save their money" until something happens and they find out why it was so cheap.  We're quite happy to leave that market category to the wanna-bees.  It used to bug me.  But now I recognize that certain people want to believe in fairy tales, don't do any homework about what they should be asking for, and don't care as long as they think they got a deal.  

There's the same phenomenon in graphic design, interior decoration, sales, marketing and business consultants, fitness experts, catering, computer installation and repair, home theatre installation, lawn maintenance, snow removal, translators, copy-writing, etc.  The cost of entry varies by niche, but always there's a lack of proper equipment, lack of training, lack of basic business skills, and lack of marketing analysis.  Common and recurring issues:  people don't really know what it takes to run a profitable business, and customers often have no clue as to what the trade-offs are - they just want to pay as little as possible.


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## robbins.photo (Nov 7, 2013)

480sparky said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> > ...if maybe all these new instant professionals are going to disappear, and soon!.......
> ...



Thus completing the great circle of life.  Queue music!


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## Robin_Usagani (Nov 7, 2013)

My aunt has a stove in her kitchen.  She made cup cakes for my cousin and she charged $.


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## cbarnard7 (Nov 7, 2013)

Robin_Usagani said:


> My aunt has a stove in her kitchen. She made cup cakes for my cousin and she charged $.



Was she a professional baker, or an amateur-pro? An amateur-pro surely couldn't make anything that tastes good enough to sell!

I personally don't care if she is a professional baker or not- if it has rainbow chip icing, I'm happy.


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## JacaRanda (Nov 7, 2013)

480sparky said:


> PhotoWrangler said:
> 
> 
> > ...........I just don't get it..............
> ...



Yayyy, more lightly used gear available for discount on the interwebs???


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## robbins.photo (Nov 7, 2013)

JacaRanda said:


> 480sparky said:
> 
> 
> > PhotoWrangler said:
> ...



Thus completing the even greater circle of life. Queue music!


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## 480sparky (Nov 7, 2013)

TheLost said:


> A stay at home mom with a $400 camera doing 'mini-sessions' of family portraits and pet photos shouldn't get anybody's hackles up..  they are either going to:
> 1) Get bored and move onto selling hot scented waxes, hosting 'slumber parties' or whatever the next hot MLM idea is.
> 2) Build an actual business
> 
> ...




Yeah.

But dammit!  Not only am I an electrician and a photographer, I also sell hot scented waxes and I'm a registered slumber party planner!


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## minicoop1985 (Nov 7, 2013)

I have a "studio" in a suitcase. Every time I want/need to use it, I have to "open a studio." I don't get all the hype here...








































:mrgreen:


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## PhotoWrangler (Nov 7, 2013)

minicoop1985 said:


> I have a "studio" in a suitcase. Every time I want/need to use it, I have to "open a studio." I don't get all the hype here.




It pretty much boils down to the fact that I had a bad day, got a wrinkle in my underoos, posted a rant, and here we are.


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## minicoop1985 (Nov 7, 2013)

The smiley face means this was posted in the sarcasm font. Apparently he failed his mission, and has now been sacked.


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## PhotoWrangler (Nov 7, 2013)

sarcasm is always posted in comic sans.... :mrgreen:


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## minicoop1985 (Nov 7, 2013)

I feel like I'm typing a message to middle school students about the big assembly in the gym that's about like drugs n stuff.

As for the OP, I get the point. I'm a noob with a DSLR, therefore I think I'm incredibly awesome and want to start a studio. OK, I don't really think that, but I'm just illustrating the point. I get that it must be irritating for professionals to see people who aren't more than a regular ignoramus with a camera-like potato trying to grab as much business as possible, then blink out of existence as if they never happened. I get it. It's frustrating for all kinds of hobbyists. When I was big into firearms, noobs aren't an annoyance-they were often a safety risk. Most new people pick up a gun and think "Holy cow I've seen 2,000 movies with guns. I know how to do this! What's a trigger lock?" There's a reason I'm not seen around ranges anymore...


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## Derrel (Nov 8, 2013)

PhotoWrangler said:
			
		

> It pretty much boils down to the fact that I had a bad day, got a wrinkle in my underoos, posted a rant, and here we are.



Whew...what a relief...I was afraid I'd open tomorrow's National Inquirer and see a photo like this under the headline *Neighborhood photographer disappears without a trace.
*


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## PhotoWrangler (Nov 8, 2013)

Nah. I know how to change my panties and admit when they've become bunched.


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## timor (Nov 8, 2013)

PhotoWrangler said:


> Now these are people with absolutely NO photographic background. People who I went to high school with who were so absolutely not into ANY art classes at all, much less photography. They are "advertising" their "studio," and for the love of God, all of their stupid little "mini-sessions." REALLY?!?
> 
> This is people that I know, or that I've known for years. People who NEVER put an ounce into learning photography and now they have gone into business?
> 
> ...


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## Steve5D (Nov 8, 2013)

PhotoWrangler said:


> Steve5D said:
> 
> 
> > You've yet to answer the big question, though: Why?
> ...



So you don't have one.

Got it.

And don't worry about sounding self-righteous. That ship sailed with your first post...


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## robbins.photo (Nov 8, 2013)

PhotoWrangler said:


> minicoop1985 said:
> 
> 
> > I have a "studio" in a suitcase. Every time I want/need to use it, I have to "open a studio." I don't get all the hype here.
> ...



It's all good PW - most of us get wrinkled underoo's from time to time.  Especially the spidey ones, they have a tendancy to bunch something awful.  Er.. or so I've heard.. lol


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## robbins.photo (Nov 8, 2013)

texkam said:


> Do you realize how many restaurants fail? After somebody loses their shirt in the restaurant business they try to become a photographer.



And when that doesn't work out, the show up on that tv show COPS - which might explain why those folks are always running around without a shirt.  AHA!  Mystery solved!


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## sashbar (Nov 8, 2013)

I can not believe it got to 5 pages.. There is no chance in hell one can get 5 pages of C&C and discussions about a photograph that often deserves it. But dig out a dead horse and people will ride it merrily for 5 pages.  Amazing.


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## PhotoWrangler (Nov 8, 2013)

Well, one of us has to take one for the team every now and then. I guess it was my turn.


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## 480sparky (Nov 8, 2013)

minicoop1985 said:


> I feel like I'm typing a message to middle school students about the big assembly in the gym that's about like drugs n stuff.
> 
> As for the OP, I get the point. I'm a noob with a DSLR, therefore I think I'm incredibly awesome and want to start a studio. OK, I don't really think that, but I'm just illustrating the point. I get that it must be irritating for professionals to see people who aren't more than a regular ignoramus with a camera-like potato trying to grab as much business as possible, then blink out of existence as if they never happened. I get it. It's frustrating for all kinds of hobbyists. When I was big into firearms, noobs aren't an annoyance-they were often a safety risk. Most new people pick up a gun and think "Holy cow I've seen 2,000 movies with guns. I know how to do this! What's a trigger lock?" There's a reason I'm not seen around ranges anymore...


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## bratkinson (Nov 9, 2013)

Given the title of this thread...the following is a MUST READ!
Ryland Goldman, 7, opens his own restaurant near his California school

Let's start providing cameras to 7 year olds and they can GO PRO!!!


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## PhotoWrangler (Nov 9, 2013)

We should change the subject to canon vs Nikon vs Sony, or RAW vs JPG and see how many pages we can keep this going for.


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## Josh66 (Nov 9, 2013)

sashbar said:


> I can not believe it got to 5 pages.. There is no chance in hell one can get 5 pages of C&C and discussions about a photograph that often deserves it. But dig out a dead horse and people will ride it merrily for 5 pages.  Amazing.


It's all about the controversy.  How controversial are your photos?

Controversy drives discussion.  If we all agreed, what would there be to discuss?


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## astroNikon (Nov 9, 2013)

Most people that buy a newfango camera are capturing pictures.

Pro Photographers are capturing memories with a storyline that hopefully shows the emotions.

But, sarcastically speaking.,
how hard can it be .. in my camera manual the instructions are:
1 - turn the camera on, check the battery level
2 - select Auto (w/flash) or Auto (no flash)
3 - ready the camera, frame the photograph
3 - Focus, check the indicators
5 - Shoot

and you are done!!

anyone can do that


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## 480sparky (Nov 9, 2013)

astroNikon said:


> Most people that buy a newfango camera are capturing pictures.
> 
> Pro Photographers are capturing memories with a storyline that hopefully shows the emotions.
> 
> ...





Or just buy a PhD camera.

(Push here, Dummy!)


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## astroNikon (Nov 9, 2013)

480sparky said:


> astroNikon said:
> 
> 
> > Most people that buy a newfango camera are capturing pictures.
> ...


That's what the d600s & d60s are for  

Now get out there and take some romantic pictures of dead horses with your PhD cameras !!


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## Steve5D (Nov 9, 2013)

astroNikon said:


> Pro Photographers are capturing memories with a storyline that hopefully shows the emotions.



Sorry, but that's a load.

I'm a professional photographer. I "capture" images that get me paid.

Period.

I know far more photographers that share _that _view than the "capturing memories with a storyline that hopefully shows the emotions" nonsense...


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## astroNikon (Nov 9, 2013)

Steve5D said:


> astroNikon said:
> 
> 
> > Pro Photographers are capturing memories with a storyline that hopefully shows the emotions.
> ...



Yes I totally agree with you.

I was thinking from a prospective customer's point of view of how a portfolio from a newbie BestBuy camera compared to a Real Pro who knows how to capture images that matter, and how they select (other than based on price) a photographer.

The images I see from a pro (from a customer perspective) are vastly superior in every way one can think of. 

my newbie .02 cents worth


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## 480sparky (Nov 9, 2013)

astroNikon said:


> Steve5D said:
> 
> 
> > astroNikon said:
> ...




Wow.  _2/100_ of a cent.  Most people are worth 2¢. :mrgreen:


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## pixmedic (Nov 9, 2013)

Steve5D said:


> astroNikon said:
> 
> 
> > Pro Photographers are capturing memories with a storyline that hopefully shows the emotions.
> ...



thats the line a lot of these new photographers use because its easier to convince people to just let them take pictures of their kids in their "natural environment" AKA "the backyard" and doing what they "naturally do" AKA "goofing around", than it is to actually learn how to set up, pose, light, and take real portraits.


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## Steve5D (Nov 10, 2013)

astroNikon said:


> I was thinking from a prospective customer's point of view of how a portfolio from a newbie BestBuy camera compared to a Real Pro who knows how to capture images that matter...



My brother is one of the best photographers I know.

He shoots with a Nikon D200 that he bought at Best Buy. 

Where a person chooses to buy a camera does not dictate their level of proficiency...


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## robbins.photo (Nov 14, 2013)

Steve5D said:


> astroNikon said:
> 
> 
> > I was thinking from a prospective customer's point of view of how a portfolio from a newbie BestBuy camera compared to a Real Pro who knows how to capture images that matter...
> ...



Best photographer I ever knew bought most if not all of his stuff from swap meets and flea markets.  Sadly, however, that also included his wardrobe.


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