# Snap a Gun Firing



## rob40wilson03 (Apr 9, 2008)

I need some advice from all you guys.

For my physics class we have an assignment that involves physics-photography.  We will be graded on it (as if I wouldn't take it seriously anyway since its photography!) and we have to take shots of things that relate to physics.  I'm a member of a shooting range and I want to take pictures of a gun firing.  I've got a friend to fire the gun while I fire the shutter.  But I need some recommendations for camera settings, etc.

I have:
-Canon 300D
-kit lens 
-28-135 IS
-Shooting range is INDOORS with low light

Any help is greatly appreciated


----------



## eravedesigns (Apr 9, 2008)

You will want to shoot the highest shutter speed you can to freeze the action but you most likely wont be able to freeze the bullet mid air. To do this you have to think beyond a shutter and into the realm of strobes. Usually what they do for photos like that is shoot in a completely dark room and have a sensor that triggers when the bullet passes it. It triggers a strobe that fires and during all this the shutter of the camera is open to take in all that light. Basically the strobe acts as a shutter. At the shooting range you will just end up getting some pics of some smoke and maybe a bit of red flames around the gun barrel. Good luck


----------



## Big Mike (Apr 9, 2008)

Yes, if you want to stop a bullet in a photo...you would need to do it with a strobe (flash)...and maybe even an exceptionally fast (short burst) flash.  Google 'high speed photography' to find some examples and maybe a tutorial.

I remember reading how to do something like this...and it involved building a sound trigger to fire the flash.


----------



## airgunr (Apr 9, 2008)

I would think you are going to need a very fast shutter speed and therefor lots of light.  Do a web search for High Speed Flash and you'll get some cool stuff.  Here's one link that is interesting.  http://store.makezine.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=MKHSPKIT

Timing of the shutter release is another issue. If you have a High Speed flash setting on your flash you could try working with that. 

I guess you could just do a countdown with someone shooting the gun and just do a series of shots and see what you get. With digital you won't be burning through a bunch of film.

If you have an off camera flash try different possitions for it. Say at a 45 degree angle off to the side from the front and then the backside of the barrel. Out of the frame so it only lights up the end of the barrel and hopefully the muzzle flash & gasses.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.  Be careful and don't put your eye out!  :^D


----------



## Big Mike (Apr 9, 2008)

> I would think you are going to need a very fast shutter speed and therefor lots of light.


Trying to freeze it with a fast shutter might be very hard...as you mention, the timing would be extremely hard to get right.



> If you have a High Speed flash setting on your flash you could try working with that.


High speed flash sync is usually a setting where the flash will pulse the light in multiple bursts (like a strobe light)...so that's not really an option IMO.

Doing it in complete darkness with a long shutter speed and flash, is the better way to go...again IMO.

Good suggestion about the direction of the light.


----------



## Village Idiot (Apr 9, 2008)

That had something like this as a side blurb to a gun myth on myth busters. They couldn't even catch the bullet with their high speed camera. I think the most you can hope to accomplish is catching the muzzle blast.


----------



## Big Mike (Apr 9, 2008)

http://www.hiviz.com/


----------



## Rhys (Apr 9, 2008)

What I have seen done to great effect is...

Put a mirror a few feet down the firing range with some flashes aimed at the shooter. Underexpose on the flash by 1/2 a stop. Get your subject - in the dark to shoot directly at the mirror - as soon as he sees the flash. Direct your camera at the mirror.

The result will be a perfectly exposed subject with the gunbarrel pointing directly at the camera (or so it would appear) and a very visible muzzle-flash. The mirror will - of course- be destroyed so don't use Aunty Gracies heirloom mirror. Use a cheap mirror from Lowes instead.


----------



## Kawi_T (Apr 9, 2008)

Just be safe!  You'll probably need the camera to be in the range, so put it on the tripod and use the remote shutter release. (maybe?)  Maybe thats not fast enough, I don't know.


----------



## JimmyO (Apr 9, 2008)

You might have better results with something like a BB, or paintball gun as the projectile is moving much slower.


----------



## rob40wilson03 (Apr 9, 2008)

WOW, you guys have really given some great advice... but i have to apologize.....

i should have said that i wasn't trying to freeze the bullet itself (knowing how difficult this would be) but to try to catch some flame from the barrel / the slide in motion / empty cartridge ejecting / etc.

sorry for the confusion!
and thanks for all the great input


----------



## Village Idiot (Apr 9, 2008)

You can make a sound trigger with stuff from radio shack. They work well for the pictures of busting water balloons so I think it may be a viable option like suggested above.


----------



## Rhys (Apr 9, 2008)

The flash will occur a long time before the sound activates anything. The slide will also have moved back and ejected the cartridge before the sound hits anything.

I suggested a way of photographing the muzzle flash. With the mirror you can have your camera behind the firing line and risk only a mirror.

To get the ejected cartridge then you need a different technique - I suggest two metal plates very close together so that when the bullet strikes them they make contact and fire the camera shutter. With luck and a fair wind, you should be able to trigger the flash with that.

Don't try to trigger the shutter - there's too much lag. You need to keep the shutter open - this needs to be done in darkness - and use this method to fire the flash.


----------



## fightheheathens (Apr 9, 2008)

i did some research on this a long time ago...anyway, the burst of light from a modern flash is anywhere from 10,000th to 30,000th of a second long... so much faster then any shutter speed.


----------



## Phranquey (Apr 9, 2008)

> i should have said that i wasn't trying to freeze the bullet itself (knowing how difficult this would be) but to try to catch some flame from the barrel / the slide in motion / empty cartridge ejecting / etc.


 
That part is easy. Make sure it is a sunny day, set up about 15' to the side of the shooter, put the camera on Shutter priority and and set it at the fastest speed you can before your aperture tops out, then fire at your fastest fps while the shooter fires. Catching muzzle blast / recoil / ejection is easy, it will just take a few attempts to get lucky on the timing.


----------



## Clutch (Apr 9, 2008)

*Actually, capturing a bullet in mid-flight is indeed possible. Just check out some of the images captured by Doc Edgerton.

I must confess I haven't the knowledge to offer help on exactly how he did it but a quick Google of him should offer some help as there seems to be information about his work and practices on the MIT website.

*http://techtv.mit.edu/file/576

*There was an extensive article about Edgerton in a National Geographic some years back. Perhaps if you can locate the issue the article is in and lay hands on a copy of the article there would be some helpful information there as well. It's been so long since I read the article I just don't remember what was written.*


----------



## Judge Sharpe (Apr 10, 2008)

The easy way to photograph the firearm functioning is to use a camcorder. You can slow the "film" down (slow motion) enough to see each part as it operates, if you want prints, Pick the frames that show what you want. 
Digital may be better than vidio at this, film would be best because you have each individual frame ready for inspection. 
This is a common practice instructional fims, 
If you want to catch a projectile in flight, use a rapidly firing strob. It works like a timing light on an engine and "stops action." If Mythbusters could not do it, they are a bunch of idiots.
hope this gives you some ideas. 
Judge Sharpe


----------



## gpimages (Apr 10, 2008)

I haven't read this mentioned yet. You may already know this but on the outside chance you don't, here it is. Be sure the camera is a safe distance away if it is even with or down range of the muzzle. The muzzle blast (depending on caliber of the gun), could damage the lens and or the camera.


----------



## schuylercat (Apr 10, 2008)

Been following this thread with interest - I have absolutely NO input whatsoever, but I am keen to see the results!

Good luck!


----------



## Clutch (Apr 10, 2008)

*Dad-gummit, I've been thinking about this thread and just had to do some research (i.e. I burned up Google). Here's some of the links I found on high speed strobes.

A .pdf file titled "High Speed Photography Kit"

Using High Speed Strobes

Schematic for a High Speed Logic Triggered Strobe (.pdf)

Article titled "High Speed Photography"

Amazon link to Doc Edgerton's book, "Electronic Flash, Strobe" (be prepared for sticker shock on this book!)

"High Speed Photography At Home" from diyphotography.net

The Google search results I got these from... the 1st page only of 323k results

I think that's enough. I'm going to keep my eye on this thread and see who has the cajones to try some of this stuff! 


*


----------



## Clutch (Apr 10, 2008)

gpimages said:


> I haven't read this mentioned yet. You may already know this but on the outside chance you don't, here it is. Be sure the camera is a safe distance away if it is even with or down range of the muzzle. The muzzle blast (depending on caliber of the gun), could damage the lens and or the camera.



Never mind what it might do to the photographer but, by George, don't mess up the equipment!


----------

