# Film developers



## Rollei12 (Feb 2, 2015)

I'm new here and have some questions about film developers.

I have some Tetenal coming for color film, but for black and white it seems a bit more complicated.  Can you pick and choose what developer you want with a certain fixer and / or stop bath or do they all have to be roughly from the same category of whatever?  For instance, can I have an Ilford developer with an Adox fixer or do I have to keep everything from Ilford if I start with Ilford?

Also, I was looking at the Art of Photography site and it was posted that a starter 'minimalist' setup would be this:

1) Adox Rodinal
2) Formulary TF-4

From the site it said that if you use the TF-4 you don't need a stop bath.  So you would just use those 2 products.

What would be a good recommendation for a minimalist setup like this?  Rodinal is not in production anymore so I'm looking for something that will give good grain and tones.  On the other hand what would be a nice setup for fine grain (or hardly no grain at all)?  

Thanks!


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## timor (Feb 2, 2015)

For black and white it is very simple, much simpler than with colour. There are not any dev/stop/fix combinations, anything goes. However developer type has influence on how the final picture might look. For slow and medium speed films Rodinal and derivatives often called R-09, adonal, blazinal etc is good, with high speed films it gives a little harsher grain. For good grain and tones HC110 and Tmax Developer mixed directly from the concentrate ( like Rodinal) are very good. HC110 is also very economical with very long shelf life. Stop bath is not necessary but will extend life if the fixer. Fixers basically have two flavors: those hardening emulsion and those not hardening emulsion. Non hardening should be used if you plan to process the negative some more like reduction or intensification, so I guess it doesn't matter for you right now. There is off course much more to use of this chemicals, but this question you might have in time, if you will be interested.
Good luck.


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## gsgary (Feb 3, 2015)

I use ilford stop and fixer but change my developer depending on what film and look I want


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## Torus34 (Feb 3, 2015)

You can mix-'n-match brands of developer, stop bath and fixer without hesitation.  And do use a stop bath.  It not only helps with the timing of the development step but saves chemical wear and tear on the fixer.

Pick a developer that's readily available.  Whichever one you pick should become your first 'standard'.  Also standardize your development procedure, using the same agitation schedule and the manufacturer's recommended time.  As you process roll after roll, you'll learn just what to expect from the film*/developer/time/agitation combination.  Once you've done this, you'll be better able to judge other developers and decide whether to switch or not.

I've used plain old Kodak D-76 and Kodak fixer for both Kodak and Ilford films for many years.  I know what to expect as a negative when I click the shutter.  My trusty old Luna Pro, coupled as needed with a gray card and a pinch of Zone theory, take care of the exposure issue.  And when in doubt, I bracket the exposure.  A few additional frames of film provide dirt cheap insurance.

* Yup, also keep to the same film, too.  Use one ISO 100 and one ISO 400.  If you're constantly trying out this or that developer and this or that film, you'll have great difficulty in selecting a combination you can trust.  Happiness, for a B&W do-it-yourselfer,  is having a pretty good idea of what the final print will look like when you're composing the shot.

Keep us posted!  And above all, have fun.


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## compur (Feb 3, 2015)

Rodinal is still available. It is a very sharp developer but not recommended if you want finest grain. It is usually used with slower films but some use it with faster films to intentionally exaggerate grain.

The most popular B&W developer of all time is Kodak D-76. It is a good all-around developer.  Ilford's ID-11 is virtually identical to D-76 and Freestyle sells an equivalent developer called Arista 76.

Other good general purpose developers are Kodak XTOL and Kodak HC-110.

Some developers are in powdered form and some come as a liquid. The liquid types are easier to mix and you can mix up only as much as you need each time you use it. Powder developers take a little more work to mix and you must mix up the whole package at once. Powder developers usually weigh less so shipping charges are usually less than with liquid developers which weigh more.


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## christopher walrath (Feb 3, 2015)

As mentioned above, you really do want to use a stop as not doing so will only acutely accelerate the exhaustion of the fix.  And, bear in mind that most fixers are non-hardening as they can be used for film and paper.  You really want to preserve the paper so an additional toning bath might be in order to give your prints permanence.  Here is what I use.

For Black and White.

Kodak HC110 until I am out and then I am moving to Ilford DDX for film.  For paper I develop in Ilford Multigrade Paper Dev.

I use Kodak Indicator Stop for both film and paper.  Once I am out of that, I am going to use a White Apple Vinegar stop.  It is diluted glacial acetic acid after all, just dilute for a 2% solution.

For fix I had been using Kodafix for both but am moving to Ilford Rapid Fix.  This is a non hardening fixing agent so for prints I will be adding a post-wash toning bath with Ilford Selenium toner.

You can mix and match to your heart's desire.  Whatever you choose, make sure it fits your process.  Read the literature.  But once you get a process you like the results of, stick to it for a while.  Get to know it.  Work it.  Make it happen.  Don't jump around from one chemical to another and you will get more consistent results overall.


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## limr (Feb 3, 2015)

There's always Caffenol


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## Dave442 (Feb 3, 2015)

I would use what are readably available and stick with those. I always have used a stop, too easy a step to be worth skipping and could even be just a water stop. You can mix the different brands of developer, stop and fix. The best is to first find what gives you good consistent results with the films you are using.


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## Rollei12 (Feb 4, 2015)

Torus34 said:


> Keep us posted!  And above all, have fun.



Thanks for your reply!  It'll be neat to get to try it


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## Rollei12 (Feb 4, 2015)

compur said:


> Rodinal is still available. It is a very sharp developer but not recommended if you want finest grain. It is usually used with slower films but some use it with faster films to intentionally exaggerate grain.
> 
> The most popular B&W developer of all time is Kodak D-76. It is a good all-around developer.  Ilford's ID-11 is virtually identical to D-76 and Freestyle sells an equivalent developer called Arista 76.
> 
> ...



Rodinal is still available?  Where?  I went to BH Photo and they said not available so I figured it was not in production anymore.  I'm in Canada so...  I'll try another camera store here.


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## Rollei12 (Feb 4, 2015)

So some other questions here...

Which is a recommended choice to get started with: Kodak or Ilford?  I seem to like the liquid chemical idea better than powder but maybe powder is better?

With making dilutions, if you dilute the fixer where do you put it?  Certainly not back in the bottle the concentrate came from because you'd be adding water to everything else.  So do you put it in another bottle to use that amount for your next roll?  How long will the diluted mix last?

When I see something like 1 + 4, I'm taking a guess that mean 1 part chemical to 4 parts water?


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## dxqcanada (Feb 4, 2015)

I like working with Ilford liquid chemicals ... but this is a personal preference.
I was never all that critical with B&W chemistry ... there is a lot of latitude with it.

1+4 could mean 1/5 + 4/5, or 1:4 ... some manufactures are not clear about that.


Adox Adonal Developer 500ml 16 oz 12054 B H Photo Video

Adonal / Blazinol (name in Canada) is based on the old Rodinal forum.


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## Dave442 (Feb 4, 2015)

I think Adonal is basically like the old Rodinal so take a look at that.
For fine grain I usually used HC110.


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## Rollei12 (Feb 4, 2015)

Thanks again everyone


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## Dave442 (Feb 4, 2015)

I started with D76 powder Developer, good and cheap, but for smaller batches of film developing it is much easier to use the liquid developers. Like the powder, with liquid you usually make a stock solution and then for each session make the working solution. So with HC110 it would be 1 part concentrate to 3 parts water to make stock solution and then the working solution would be further diluted. Or go straight from concentrate to working solution if developing very infrequently.


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## Rollei12 (Feb 4, 2015)

Dave442 said:


> I started with D76 powder Developer, good and cheap, but for smaller batches of film developing it is much easier to use the liquid developers. Like the powder, with liquid you usually make a stock solution and then for each session make the working solution. So with HC110 it would be 1 part concentrate to 3 parts water to make stock solution and then the working solution would be further diluted. Or go straight from concentrate to working solution if developing very infrequently.



I take it all the instructions are with the product?  This sounds fun


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## Dave442 (Feb 4, 2015)

The product has some basic instructions. There are guides for each product from the manufacturer and then many other guides. Finally you need to make notes when you develop and then adjust in subsequent developments as your water is different from others.


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## gsgary (Feb 5, 2015)

For timings try Massive Dev Chart, I usually develop more than it states because I like contrasty negs


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## timor (Feb 5, 2015)

Rollei12 said:


> So some other questions here...
> 
> Which is a recommended choice to get started with: Kodak or Ilford?  I seem to like the liquid chemical idea better than powder but maybe powder is better?
> 
> ...


The magic of b&w film is, that everything is a personal choice. The best of film or chemicals is what works best for you. That is why you will not get any singularly answer. Any developer can give you foot results with any film. There is a large number of veritable starting with technical state of your camera nobody can really take in account. B&w film is an empiric affair, very persomal , one has to work out own way. Manufacturers, or ours for that matter, recommendations are only a starting point. By changing some of the variable you may arrive at your perfect negative and suddenly you may see your way is different than ours. Shoot film, develop how you like or can, see results, don't get frustrated if not that good, think what's wrong, apply change, try again. After 4-5 rounds you will start to feel it.


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## compur (Feb 5, 2015)

Freestyle has Rodinal but it can only be shipped within the USA. It's currently being marketed as an Adox product. It should be available in Canada.


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## christopher walrath (Feb 5, 2015)

Personal recommendations for just starting?
HC110
Kodak Indicator Stop
Kodafix
and for paper - Ilford Multigrade and Selenium Toner


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