# Do you use the internal metering system in your camera?



## Ysarex (Mar 5, 2020)

All modern digital cameras have a light metering system. They read reflected light from the subject. If you use your camera in any of the auto or semi-auto modes (Program (P), Shutter Priority (Tv/S) or Aperture Priority (Av/A) then you use the meter -- answer yes.

If you use the camera only in Manual (M) you may still use the meter to assist in setting an exposure -- answer yes.

I'm looking for a "no" answer from the Manual only users who ignore the meter and couldn't care less if it was there. You use the camera like it was a 1960s Hasselblad and determine exposure entirely by means external to your camera -- answer no.

Thanks,
Joe


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## jcdeboever (Mar 5, 2020)

My most used cameras are the Nikon F and F2 and neither have meters. I sunny 16 or use the flash. I do use them in my digital because they are there and are pretty accurate.


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## Ysarex (Mar 5, 2020)

jcdeboever said:


> My most used cameras are the Nikon F and F2 and neither have meters. I sunny 16 or use the flash. I do use them in my digital because they are there and are pretty accurate.



Those old Nikons are like the 1960s Hasselblad I mentioned. They don't have meters at all. I have similar cameras as well but in this case I'm asking about modern digital cameras. Assuming for example that you're so used to using the old Nikons that when/if you pick up a Nikon D500 or D850 you use it the same way in full Manual (sunny 16) and ignore the meter system -- then answer no.

Thanks,
Joe


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## Original katomi (Mar 5, 2020)

For some images like my strobe set I use an external light meter


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## Ysarex (Mar 5, 2020)

Original katomi said:


> For some images like my strobe set I use an external light meter



So do I. My question wasn't do you always use the metering system. Answer no if you never use the metering system otherwise answer yes.

Thanks,
Joe


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## zombiesniper (Mar 5, 2020)

I use the metering in the camera as a guide but don't necessarily listen to what it says depending on what I want as an outcome or if I know in certain circumstances the metering is plain wrong (eg. shooting primarily white/black dominated scenes the metering will normally try to bring the scene to a medium grey and need to be adjusted.)

Controlled environments such as studio I just use my brain. No metering required. Some days this works. Other days I think my brain needs a firmware update.


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## weepete (Mar 5, 2020)

Yes, I normally spot meter with the inbuilt light meter and manual, very occasionally I won't but I'll then chimp for the histogram.


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## Ysarex (Mar 5, 2020)

zombiesniper said:


> I use the metering in the camera as a guide but don't necessarily listen to what it says depending on what I want as an outcome or if I know in certain circumstances the metering is plain wrong (eg. shooting primarily white/black dominated scenes the metering will normally try to bring the scene to a medium grey and need to be adjusted.)



That would be a yes then to my question.

Thanks,
Joe



zombiesniper said:


> Controlled environments such as studio I just use my brain. No metering required. Some days this works. Other days I think my brain needs a firmware update.


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## zombiesniper (Mar 5, 2020)

Yup, voted.


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## jcdeboever (Mar 5, 2020)

Ysarex said:


> jcdeboever said:
> 
> 
> > My most used cameras are the Nikon F and F2 and neither have meters. I sunny 16 or use the flash. I do use them in my digital because they are there and are pretty accurate.
> ...



I did for a spell to improve my sunny 16 accuracy. The meters in my digital are very good.


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## snowbear (Mar 5, 2020)

Mostly, yes.  If I'm using the Minolta, then no because that battery is not available and I haven't tried the #12 wire adapter.


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## Derrel (Mar 5, 2020)

I voted Yes...Nikon has very good metering, and users can select the size of the central circle, which is where 60% of the center-weighted  metering influence is located.

For the better part of two decades Nikon used the scribed 12 mm Circle on most viewfinder screens as the area of 60% influence. With the Nikon F3 release, they went with an 80% / 20% metering weighting.

Around 1986 or so I did a two-roll series of test photographs of a single 75 watt light bulb hung on a wall and took different meter readings with different framings. It was quite enlightening to see how much a single bright light source either influence or did not influence the meter reading, depending upon the placement of said light source against a frame that was basically White Walls.

In roughly 1984 or so Nikon invented multi-segment metering which was introduced in their FA camera, which won the camera Grand Prix. Over the ensuing decades camera makers have become much more attuned to light metering systems which can determine the color of an object,as well as its reflectivity. Nikon introduce this, and about a decade later, Canon premiered a system which got around the Nikon patents and which works quite well.

Old fashioned light meters, either hand-held or in-Camera were basically color blind and tended to try and make everything appear 18% Gray... with today's digital cameras metering systems often are completely aware of what the color and the reflective value of an object is and give us extremely accurate meter readings, because they know not only the amount of light that is coming back to the camera, but they have a system with uses one thousand or more sensors, in the case of Nikon economy level DSLR cameras, 1,008, which read the color of objects. When used in conjunction with the location and date and time settings which users program into the camera, camera light meters can make sense of all sorts of situations. For example if you have a camera that is set to December 21 and the location is Seattle Washington USA, the camera metering system realizes that the sun goes down quite early in the day, and so a photo in which there is a large but bright orb in the upper quadrant is recognized not as the sun but as an artificial light source after,say, 4 p.m.


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## Ysarex (Mar 5, 2020)

Derrel said:


> I voted Yes...Nikon has very good metering, and users can select the size of the central circle, which is where 60% of the center-weighted  metering influence is located.
> 
> For the better part of two decades Nikon used the scribed 12 mm Circle on most viewfinder screens as the area of 60% influence. With the Nikon F3 release, they went with an 80% / 20% metering weighting.
> 
> ...



Thanks Derrel,

Here's more info about why I asked:

I didn't want to bias the responses at first with too much information (motive).

The internal meter systems in cameras read reflected light from the subject. As opposed to an incident meter that is used to measure the light directly. Reflected light meters can be off when the subject is abnormally bright or dark.

I've been doing this for a long time and used to own 3 different hand light meters. I gave the last one away about 8 years ago. I believe the camera internal meters (and camera control systems) have improved to the point where most photographers now, especially out of the studio, are, like me, happy using and do indeed use the camera's metering system.

I'm looking to validate my assumption about most photographers. I teach photography and it's nice to be able to tell a class I have a little more than just my belief when I tell them something.

Joe


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## Derrel (Mar 5, 2020)

Nikon's new highlight tone priority metering introduced in the D810 was that company's latest advance in in camera light metering. I believe Canon introduced highlight tone priority metering a few years before Nikon did.

Light metering in the camera is also connected to how the camera is set up as far as tone curve, and of course these days we are metering for color positive images and not for negative images... as I am sure you know, Ysarex, there are different strategies when one takes a light meter reading depending upon whether one is shooting for a color positive or a black and white negative final image.


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## Original katomi (Mar 6, 2020)

Ysarex said:


> Original katomi said:
> 
> 
> > For some images like my strobe set I use an external light meter
> ...


Answerd yes


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## RVT1K (Mar 6, 2020)

I have a couple of third-party, fully-manual lenses. When I use these, I use the internal meter.


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## cgw (Mar 6, 2020)

I carry a little Sekonic 308 and do use it when I want incident readings, especially for available light portraits.Otherwise, I’ll play around with the exp-comp dial, often without chipping, since I’ve shot my Fujis enough to know pretty much how they read things.

As for old SLRs, early Minolta SRTs had a proto-matrix meter(OK, just two zones!) that cleverly read the top and bottom of the frame. Had one and always thought it raised my quotient of decently-exposed shots. Did nothing for composition—sadly.


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## AlanKlein (Mar 6, 2020)

I just started using my Sony RX100iv P&S digital camera as a light meter when I'm shooting with non-metered film cameras.  I checked it against my Minolta Autometer IIIF and they seem consistent with both metering.  But I haven't compared the actual film results yet.

Any comments?


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## CherylL (Mar 6, 2020)

I answered Yes.  If I am shooting timelapse I will check the histogram too.


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## Jeff15 (Mar 6, 2020)

My camera gets it right 99% of the time, life is too short to stuff a mushroom......


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## Soocom1 (Mar 6, 2020)

Jeff15 said:


> My camera gets it right 99% of the time, life is too short to stuff a mushroom......


Unless its with bacon rice and mozzarella....


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## Soocom1 (Mar 6, 2020)

yes for me especially with the manual lenses I am using. 
I discovered that the Sunny 16 rule isnt working 100% when the manual lenses are on the mirrorless. 

Frankly to me its a tool. 
Use it.


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## Overread (Mar 6, 2020)

Honestly the only time I've ever seen any justification for external light meters in modern photography is when setting up a flash setup where you can balance the flash units using the direct light mode on an external meter. After that I've really not seen many arguments for using an external meter. The cameras have one built into them and, as many have already said, you can use that to great effect to meter a scene. 

Of course like any meter the results need processing and interpreting by a human mind to guide them. Working within the cameras limitations to avoid issues like grey snow etc... Heck even when you've got good experience, the cheapness of a digital shot means that a quick shot and a glance at the histogram can let you fine-tune your settings even further. The meter gets you close, your own experiences, the situation, the light and subject and the histogram on a review shot can all help further refine the results. 

Heck with digital screens that can output histogram results live to the viewer you can even adjust without taking a test shot.


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## AlanKlein (Mar 6, 2020)

CherylL said:


> I answered Yes.  If I am shooting timelapse I will check the histogram too.


Why check the histogram only on time lapse?


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## AlanKlein (Mar 6, 2020)

Another advantage I found using a digital camera as a light meter, I can set it for BW to match the BW film I'm shooting in the other camera.  That gives me a better idea what the final will look like if I'm shooting BW film.  I also can set the zoom of the digital camera to match the angle of the film camera's lens.  That way I can figure out where the best placement for the film camera should go.  That makes better compositions easier and faster to set up.   I'm still not totally convinced of this method over using a separate meter.  I have to work with it awhile and check the actual film results before I retire my regular light meter.


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## astroNikon (Mar 6, 2020)

depends.
Pictures when there's sunlight I do reference it.
At night, for instance for astrophotography ... nope because I don't have a flash big enough.


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## CherylL (Mar 7, 2020)

AlanKlein said:


> CherylL said:
> 
> 
> > I answered Yes.  If I am shooting timelapse I will check the histogram too.
> ...



Before committing to take 300+ photos I want to add the extra step to get it right.  Outside it is hard to see the back of the screen when setting up the timelapse.  If I am taking just a shot here and there I will chimp the screen for blinkies and not really concern myself.  I shoot all in raw so I could recover some data.


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## AlanKlein (Mar 7, 2020)

CherylL said:


> AlanKlein said:
> 
> 
> > CherylL said:
> ...


That makes sense.  Do you ever shoot a short time lapse to check it out before the main event?


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## Derrel (Mar 7, 2020)

I have had the same incident/flash meter since 1986. Its the only piece of Minolta equipment I have ever owned. As I recall I paid $169 for it back in the day when gasoline was roughly $0.89,a gallon as I recall. I was 23 then: today I am 57.

I bought my first Speedotron flash system in 1986 as well. I will admit that I frequently shoot flash assignments with no flash meter and instead rely on over 30 years of experience. Of course these days with digital we have the histogram as a wonderful type of built-in exposure evaluation tool.


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## Derrel (Mar 7, 2020)

There was a joke back in the day: "There are two correct exposures for Tri-X. F/5.6 at 1/250 and f/2.8 at 1/30." It's a 45 year-old joke. Excuse it not being too funny in this 20th year of the twenty-first century, but it's the only exposure-related joke I can recall.It ties in with not using a light meter.


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## CherylL (Mar 7, 2020)

AlanKlein said:


> CherylL said:
> 
> 
> > AlanKlein said:
> ...



No sample timelapse, but I do take a few test shots.


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## JBPhotog (Mar 8, 2020)

I use a meter, sometimes it’s a handheld sometimes it’s built in.


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## DanOstergren (Mar 8, 2020)

I use the internal meter, yes, but I don't base "correct" exposure on what it tells me, just as I wouldn't base correct exposure on what an external meter tells me either. I use the meter as a starting point and then base my exposure from that point on how the photo renders on the back LCD of my camera. I've used a light meter in studio before, but I personally don't think it's necessary when we have screens on the back of our cameras that accurately render our photos for us to view as soon as we shoot them, and flash units with easily adjustable output settings.


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## StevenW (Mar 10, 2020)

Yes.  I found Nikon's matrix metering to be excellent for a specific type of work I was involved in.  I also have a vintage Minolta F-IV handheld for some things including setting up strobes.


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## PICOBELLA (Mar 10, 2020)

I am constantly in Manual mode with Canon EOS 80D and any other modern day digital cameras, so my answer is no.  I never rely on the metering systems, since my experiences with them have been less than stellar.  Thanks, Tony


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## Ysarex (Mar 11, 2020)

PICOBELLA said:


> I am constantly in Manual mode with Canon EOS 80D and any other modern day digital cameras, so my answer is no.  I never rely on the metering systems, since my experiences with them have been less than stellar.  Thanks, Tony



How do you determine exposure?

Joe


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## vintagesnaps (Mar 11, 2020)

Yes, I do, if the camera has a metering system. If I'm using a vintage camera without a meter, I usually have another camera with me and can use that to meter. I learned early on to get a proper exposure, and still go for that.


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## johngpt (Mar 11, 2020)

I'm writing a comment as I really want to see if PICOBELLA replies to Joe's question.
And I responded yes to the survey as I use the histogram in all my Fuji's, and they are all set on manual exposure.
I think I used the light meter on my old Pentax Spotmatic too in the previous century. If I remember, it had a needle which rose or fell as shutter speed or aperture was changed. Funny I sort of remember that but I couldn't tell you what the meter looked like in the viewfinder of my Nikon F4004.


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## Ysarex (Mar 12, 2020)

johngpt said:


> I'm writing a comment as I really want to see if PICOBELLA replies to Joe's question.
> And I responded yes to the survey as I use the histogram in all my Fuji's, and they are all set on manual exposure.
> I think I used the light meter on my old Pentax Spotmatic too in the previous century. If I remember, it had a needle which rose or fell as shutter speed or aperture was changed. Funny I sort of remember that but I couldn't tell you what the meter looked like in the viewfinder of my Nikon F4004.



I'd like to see an answer to that question too.

Here's a story about that: When I first got seriously interested in photography it was about 1974. I moved to St. Louis in 1976 to attend St. Louis University and quickly found the local camera store located just a block off campus on Lindell blvd. I started to hang out there and eventually met Bob Artega. At that time Mr. Artega was already an older gentleman. He's still well remembered here in St. Louis as the photographer of the Arch. Bob Artega got the contract to photograph the construction of the St. Louis Gateway Arch and took many now famous photographs. Bob's two sons Eldon and Wayne inherited the business and I used to share many good jokes with Eldon. Now the next generation runs the shop: Photography St. Louis Mo. Aerial Photographers

So one day I was on campus walking between classes and I saw Bob Artega taking a photo. He had a tripod set up, black cloth over his head, and a 4x5 Speed Graphic pointed toward one of the campus buildings. I went over and said hi and asked if I could watch him work. He said sure. I watched him get the camera ready, put in a film holder, pull the slide, trip the shutter, flip the film holder and take a 2nd shot and then I butted in and asked, "Excuse me Mr. Artega but I never saw you take a meter reading. How'd you know the exposure?" And he pointed up at the sky and said, "The bleep bleep sun is shinning for bleep's sake. I was doing this before they invented light meters. Didn't need one then and don't need one now."

Bob Artega like all photographers of his generation knew that the sun shines with a constant intensity and that you can train yourself to recognize outdoor exposure conditions and get good results. For example hazy to light overcast is -2 stops from full sun, etc. But there's no such standard for indoor light and although we humans can learn to memorize standard conditions we can't sense variations in light intensity. Our eyes and perceptual system self adjust to light intensity to maintain as much as possible a constant brightness. So no matter how many years of experience you may have if you walk into say an indoor office or retail lighting condition you're going to do a poor job of trying to determine exposure without some kind of measuring tool.

How does PICOBELLA handle that task? I've been a photographer for 40 years and like Bob I can work outdoors without a light meter (although I'd rather not), but walk into the Mall or a classroom and I'm going to take a meter reading. I may not do precisely what the meter suggests but I'm going to find out what that is. So I use my camera's meter.

Joe


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## TWX (Mar 14, 2020)

It's been my experience with my older Digital Rebel XS, my 77D, and the M100, that the metering is quite good, but can still be put into situations when it doesn't work.  Most recently on the 77D that's been when either using the teleconverter or when using a pinhole body cap.  Metering was inconsistent and all over the place with the teleconverter, and obviously with just a pinhole and an f/stop equivalent of about f/476 I couldn't realistically expect it to work.  In both cases I have to take test shots.

In some other circumstances I might find that, shooting manual with manual ISO, I want to slightly under- or over-expose based on what I want for results, sometimes I have a good feel for it, other times less so.  I certainly use it as a guide even if I override though.


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## Derrel (Mar 14, 2020)

33 Yes to 1 No...pretty conclusive poll results so far...

Addendum: Saturday 14 March, 2020, now 34 Yes to 1 No. Addendum #2: 35 Yes to 1 No, Sunday 15 March, 2020.


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## TWX (Mar 14, 2020)

Derrel said:


> 33 Yes to 1 No...pretty conclusive poll results so far...



I remember as a student on a K1000 learning to use that internal analog lightmeter, and when I paid attention I got reasonably good results.  It would seem that internal lightmeters are reliable and have been for decades, so not a lot of reason to not use it.


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## Sharpshooterr (Mar 15, 2020)

My question is, where is this survey going???
Next, I'll just assume that the "no" vote probably didn't understand the question!!! LoL
SS


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## weepete (Mar 15, 2020)

TWX said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> > 33 Yes to 1 No...pretty conclusive poll results so far...
> ...



First time I learned to use a light meter my Dad showed me, it was his old pentax K with the light meter on the side of the viewfinder!


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## Ysarex (Mar 15, 2020)

Sharpshooterr said:


> My question is, where is this survey going???
> Next, I'll just assume that the "no" vote probably didn't understand the question!!! LoL
> SS


Do you use the internal metering system in your camera?

Here's more info about why I asked:

I didn't want to bias the responses at first with too much information (motive).

The internal meter systems in cameras read reflected light from the subject. As opposed to an incident meter that is used to measure the light directly. Reflected light meters can be off when the subject is abnormally bright or dark.

I've been doing this for a long time and used to own 3 different hand light meters. I gave the last one away about 8 years ago. I believe the camera internal meters (and camera control systems) have improved to the point where most photographers now, especially out of the studio, are, like me, happy using and do indeed use the camera's metering system.

I'm looking to validate my assumption about most photographers. I teach photography and it's nice to be able to tell a class I have a little more than just my belief when I tell them something.

Joe


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## Derrel (Mar 16, 2020)




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## Sharpshooterr (Mar 16, 2020)

Ysarex said:


> Sharpshooterr said:
> 
> 
> > My question is, where is this survey going???
> ...



Joe, thanks for the explanation. I agree with you that the meters in modern cameras are extremely accurate and in most situations no more is needed to produce a well exposed image. In fact I use spot metering a lot. I shoot a lot of very fast moving sports and the most important factor is that faces are properly exposed, hence the spot meter. I might switch between back lit, side lit and front lit and back and forth several times in the span of ten to fifteen seconds. I have to TRUST my in-camera meter!
In studio I often use a hand held to meter each light individually before my subjects arrive to get a good starting point and of course the camera is on full manual since the light is not gonna vary.
But there is no replacing experience such as in the case of a white bird in bright light!!
Don't fear the meter!!! LoL
Thanks, SS


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## vintagesnaps (Mar 16, 2020)

I always used the meter, and still do, when using a mechanical film camera. So even with an older camera I'm able to get properly exposed B&W film negatives that aren't too dense and aren't too thin (for me the latter is a deal breaker, the former means spending more time zapping light thru a negative and why spend time doing that?! lol). 

Derrel that's funny, your post makes it look like I was shouting - YES, I DO!! lol


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## johngpt (Mar 28, 2020)

Ysarex said:


> I'm looking to validate my assumption about most photographers. I teach photography and it's nice to be able to tell a class I have a little more than just my belief when I tell them something.
> 
> Joe


Thanks for explaining Joe, why you had set up this survey. Even though this is just a small sample size, I think it is fairly representative of how photographers use the internal light meter.


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## daveo228i (Feb 22, 2021)

I use a Hasselblad viewfinder with built in light meter or the small light meter designed for the winding crank. I use the in camera meter most of the time in my Canons, Nikons, Pentax 6x4.5 auto, handheld for my Rolleiflex f 3.5. For my Nikon S3 2000 I used a Voightlander meter mounted in the hot shoe. Since I’m not selling to clients anymore, I shoot for my own pleasure.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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