# Gonna have my parents order my first B/W darkroom supplies on Sunday!!! Need help!



## xypex982 (Mar 3, 2009)

So I am getting my black and white negative darkroom ordered on Sunday for my b-day!  I already have several rolls of Kodak Tri-x 400, and plan on shooting it more so I plan to have the chemicals revolve around that film. I know I need a tank, reel, fixer, and developer. Anything else?

I have no idea what to pick though this is the criteria for what I want:

Must be in total under $100, preferably around $70
Tank/reel: Must do 120 and 35mm, I don't care if it is steel or plastic.
Chemicals: Work well with tri-x 400, don't need much.


Umm any thing else? Stuff like bottles and measuring cups I have....and I can get a thermostat....unless there is a good one for cheap that would be great to use in the darkroom. I already have a negative scanner so I plan on making it a hybrid darkroom with no enlarger, at least for now.

Thanks for any help or suggestions guys, I am pumped to devolop my own b/w negatives at home.


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## ann (Mar 4, 2009)

you will need. film developer. we use hc110 in our classes, as it has a long shelve life when used as a 1 shot developer. Stop bath, (or running water will do) rapid fixer.

you an double check on Ilford's site where they have a Pdf file which will give you an idea of what is needed, besides step by step directions. 

Developing film is easy. the first roll is always nerve racking, but afte that it is simple.

Be consistent with your temperature and agitation methods.


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## Christie Photo (Mar 4, 2009)

xypex982 said:


> Umm any thing else?.



Photo-Flo and a squeegee would be nice.

Yes...  get a decent thermometer.  I do recomend indicator stop bath.  I used to use Heico's NH-5 for fix and Perma Wash for archival washing.

Kodak's D-76 is a great film developer, but it is mixed from dry.  In my later years I got lazy and switched to T-Max developer just for the easy mixing.

Happy birthday, and have fun!

-Pete


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## ann (Mar 4, 2009)

trix does not need a hypoclearing bath.

good idea about the photoflo.


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## Christie Photo (Mar 4, 2009)

ann said:


> trix does not need a hypoclearing bath.



Huh?

I suppose NO film "needs" a clearing bath.  It will cut the wash time by ½ hour...  or more to achieve the same archival results.

-Pete


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## ann (Mar 4, 2009)

there is no need to wash film for an hour anymore.

years ago when the base was much thicker it was common for long wash times.

using ilford's archival method , it is as simple as filling the tank. invert 5 times, dump, refill, invert 10 times, dump, refill invert 20 times dump.


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## Christie Photo (Mar 4, 2009)

ann said:


> there is no need to wash film for an hour anymore. ... it is as simple as filling the tank. invert 5 times, dump, refill, invert 10 times, dump, refill invert 20 times dump.



I wouldn't do it.  Nor do I advise doing it.

----------------------------------------------

FROM ILFORD'S SITE, REGARDING ILFORD FILMS:

WASHING
Where a non-hardening fixer, such as
HYPAM or ILFORD RAPID FIXER, has been
used, wash the film in running water for
5&#8211;10 minutes at a temperature within
5°C/9°F of the processing temperature.

----------------------------------------------

Kodak recommends something more than this for Tri-X:  Running water for 20&#8211;30 minutes.

-Pete


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## ann (Mar 4, 2009)

we have been using this method for over 20 years, and the negatives are still holding up.

check the bottom of page 10 in this pdf file for an alternative method.

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/200629163442455.pdf


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## Christie Photo (Mar 4, 2009)

ann said:


> we have been using this method for over 20 years, and the negatives are still holding up.
> 
> check the bottom of page 10 in this pdf file for an alternative method.
> 
> http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/200629163442455.pdf



Now, after 40 years in the darkroom, I'm getting a bit confused.  You've been doing this for 20+ years, but the film base used to be "much thicker" (I'm not sure which film this is)....   and you first cited Ilford's "archival method" which is now an _alternate_ method from their STEP BY STEP GUIDE TO FILM PROCESSING IN SMALL TANKS FOR HOBBYISTS, STUDENTS AND SCHOOLS.  Hmmmm.

And nothing about the proper washing of Kodak Trix-X.

I don't know...  maybe it's the white boxes that makes it OK.

Let the kid wash his film.

-Pete


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## xypex982 (Mar 4, 2009)

Sure I will do it as christie says. I was looking at the kodak D-76 too, I was hoping it would keep for longer, but I have to find out what fixer and other chems work with it.


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## ann (Mar 4, 2009)

i have been doing darkroom work since i was 10 years old and am now 71. I have seen many changes and have had to change my process along with those changes.

films in the 50's had a much thicker film base, and it was the common thing to do , wash for an hour. that included 4x5 sheet film as well.  Then came along perma wash, etc. which cut down the wash times, along with rapid film washers.

I can't give you a specific time when we stopped using that method as it was long ago.

when we switched to Ilford's method it was considered by them to be archival. Just because they mention it as an alternative doesn't mean it isn't  useful

my students use trix all the time along with this method of washing.
the color of the box makes no difference.

He can wash  his film anyway he wishes.

I was purposing one method, you purposed another. Who cares!

Any fixer and stop bath will work with D76


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## xypex982 (Mar 4, 2009)

I am looking at this set of chems

Devoloper:
8275497 Kodak D-76 Black & White Film Developer, Powder to Make 1 Liter.

Stop bath:
1464247 Kodak Indicator Stop Bath For Black & White Films And Papers, 1-Pint Bottle To Make 8-Gallons.

Fixer:
1971746 Kodak Professional Fixer with Hardener for both Black & White Film and Paper, Powder to Make 1-Gallon.

Hypo clearing agent:
1533942 Kodak Hypo Clearing Agent, for Removal of Fixer from Black & White Films and Papers, Powder to make 1.25 Gallons.


What do you guys think?

By the way what does this mean, "Replenish with KODAK PROFESSIONAL Replenisher D-76R." It was written on the page with the d-76 developer. Do I mix the d-76 with water or some other chemical?


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## djacobox372 (Mar 5, 2009)

xypex982 said:


> I am looking at this set of chems
> 
> Devoloper:
> 8275497 Kodak D-76 Black & White Film Developer, Powder to Make 1 Liter.
> ...



Don't buy the powder developer--it's trickier to mix, and the shelf life isn't that great once the working solution is made.

I'd recommend HC-110 developer, it's a liquid and hence can be mixed from concentrate for each use for the most reliable results AND the most shelf life--important is $$ saving is a concern, concentrate hc110 basically lasts forever.



Most use HC-110 at dilution B which is 1:31 (1 part developer, 31 parts water).  When mixing from conentrate that's about 16ml of developer for every 500ml of water--it's hard to accurately measure 16ml without a syringe.

I'd skip the hypo clearing agent, it's not needed.  

Here's a recommended shopping list: 

1) Medical syringe for mixing HC-110 developer, you can find them in the baby section of most drugstores.

2) two large opaque (not clear) containers for storing stop and fix which are reusable. 

3) three clear 1000ml containers to measure out your chemicals--graduated cylinders are nice, but any clear plastic bottle that you can pour out of will work (you can just mark the measurements yourself with a sharpie).

4) two funnels for pouring your stop and fix back into the storage containers.

5) Digital cooking timer

6) thermometer

8) some photoflo

7) two gallons of distilled water.  Mix up your fixer and stop with the distilled water--you can develop with tap water.  I also rinse with tap water, BUT I always do a final soak in distilled water with a couple ml of photoflo added.


Good luck!


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## djacobox372 (Mar 5, 2009)

xypex982 said:


> Sure I will do it as christie says. I was looking at the kodak D-76 too, I was hoping it would keep for longer, but I have to find out what fixer and other chems work with it.



This is why I recommend HC-110, it offers similar results as d-76 but has near endless shelf life when you mix it up from concentrate for each use.


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## xypex982 (Mar 6, 2009)

Im am digging the HC-110, but here it says dilution A. What do I need to mix the concentrate, what is dilution B water?

If I were to get HC-110, will the developer and fixer I picked work? Any suggestions for a tank/reel? I was thinking plastic with a built in agitator wand thing that can do 35mm and 120mm film, and if it makes any diffrence or is possible be able to do c-41 devoloping for later down the road.


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## randerson07 (Mar 7, 2009)

Everything you wanted to know about HC110
Kodak HC-110 Developer - Unofficial Resource Page


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## xypex982 (Mar 9, 2009)

So I am about to order, does this look right?

Hc-110
1408988 Kodak HC-110 Black & White Film Developer, Liquid to Make 2 Gallons of Dilution A.

Stop
1464247 Kodak Indicator Stop Bath For Black & White Films And Papers, 1-Pint Bottle To Make 8-Gallons.

Fixer
1464080 Kodak Kodafix Black & White Film and Paper Fixer with Hardener, Liquid, Makes 1 Gallon for Film, 2 Gallons for Paper.

Photo-flo
1464510 Kodak Photo-Flo 200 Photographic Wetting Agent, 16 Ounce Bottle.

Tank & Reel (This looks really good)
PTP115P Paterson Universal Tank w/ One Reel

So does that look ok to you guys? The other smaller items like bottles and measuring cups and such I have or can get locally. Sorry for all the questions, I just am a complete noob and hope that these chems will give me results with my Tri-X 400


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## randerson07 (Mar 9, 2009)

I would personally get a rapid fixer such as
1984253 Ilford Rapid Fixer 500 Milliliter Bottle.

If you want to get the bigger bottle and keep the cost down, then ditch the Stop bath and use water for stop bath.

Other than that, it looks good.


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## christopher walrath (Mar 9, 2009)

ann said:


> there is no need to wash film for an hour anymore.
> 
> years ago when the base was much thicker it was common for long wash times.
> .


 
It's up to you.  But I absolutely would do it.  I do.  Saves on water and time.

Some small things you might not think of but will come in handy.

Clothespins, wooden, to hang neg strips.
Scissors.
Church key, for opening 35mm canisters.
Good sized funnel that can take sloppy pouring if you get in a hurry and catch the liquid.

I would get liquid chems.  Powder can be tricky for a beginner.
I would one shot your chems.  This means mix them up.  Pour into the tank and then emtpy down the drain.  Tree huggers will cringe at this but you can pour your chemistry down the drain, as long as it's not into a septic system.  Them chems you will use at that dilution are not as strong as chlorine bleach use to clean the very fixtures you will use.
And go stainless steel tanks and reels, all the way.  I would recommend shopping at www.frestylephoto.biz.

Some of this has probably already been pointed out.  But I hope this helps and you have fun.


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## djacobox372 (Mar 16, 2009)

xypex982 said:


> So I am about to order, does this look right?
> 
> Hc-110
> 1408988 Kodak HC-110 Black & White Film Developer, Liquid to Make 2 Gallons of Dilution A.
> ...



That's a good list, but I'd buy a two reel tank, and don't forget a changing bag unless you a 100% dark room to load your film.

You may also want to order some archival negative holders--it's hard to find those locally these days in the era of digital.


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## christopher walrath (Mar 16, 2009)

Stuff some towels in the door cracks.  Forget the sweaty changing bag.  Do it in the dark.  That's what my Dad always said.  Wait, maybe that was fix the car . . .


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## xypex982 (Mar 21, 2009)

So I have all the info on developing time with my hc-110, and I have everything mixed and ready and roll on the spool, but I cant find the charts that tell me how long to use the kodak stop bath and the Kodafix, any idea where to get them?


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## christopher walrath (Mar 21, 2009)

xypex982 said:


> So I have all the info on developing time with my hc-110, and I have everything mixed and ready and roll on the spool, but I cant find the charts that tell me how long to use the kodak stop bath and the Kodafix, any idea where to get them?


 

I use this so here ya go.  Stop for thirty seconds agitating once initially.  Drain.  Fill with fix.  I agitate same as developing as there are no real instructions I have ever seen.  You do not want to underagitate the fixer so this is safe.  You fix for twice the film's clearing time.  That means you fix for twice the amount of time it takes for the film to have the pale pinkish hue wash away.  TMax (TMY-2) takes two minutes and thirty seconds.  You can take open the tank after three minutes of fixing and make sure the film has cleared.  Then make your total fix time six minutes.  I fix my TMY-2 for 5.5.  If you have undeveloped portions of film when you remove the film from the spool at the end, refix until cleared and then rinse really well.  Don't try to reload it.  Just pour some fixer into a bowl or, better yet, your large measuring cup (I use a glass kitchen measuring cup) and, while holding each end of the roll in each hand, work the film through the fixer until it clears and then rinse for about five minutes in running tap.


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