# TRAVEL PHOTOGRAPHY PRICING!



## ironsidephoto

I may be getting an offer from a large corporation to travel to other countries and take photos of factory conditions. They'd fly me there, put me up, etc. However, I need to figure out how much I should charge them so they can give me an offer. 

Any ideas on how I should price this? By the day? How much? I'd just be giving them all the photos for corporate use.

Thanks for your ideas...I'll need them.


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## skieur

The usual method is to charge for time plus photos used.  Any photos not chosen along with related rights belong to the photographer.  

You then go in and do a massive shoot in the location of both what your client wants and what you might possibly use in the future.

skieur


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## ironsidephoto

That's useful. I've never done any sort of corporate work like this, so I don't know what the rights are to the photos afterwards...

Any idea what the going rate per hour is for work like this? It may or may not be dangerous in these places, and they know that I'm both a student and a not-yet-but-maybe-soon-to-be professional.


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## ironsidephoto

Anyone else? I'd really like to get a lot of opinions on this. What would you do in this situation with your experience level?


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## skieur

You would need to know more about the job in order to cost it.  How much time and effort is necessary to get to the particular location of the factory and are you going to encounter "opposition" regarding the doumentation of conditions?  How easy or difficult are the shooting conditions going to be?  Large factory areas with strong shadows or very low light may be a challenge to shoot.  How many shots are wanted and for what kind of distribution?  Will it be necessary to document details and locations in writing for each shot?

In television work there are set standards for on location work, as in quality of accommodations, food, transportation, number of hours, breaks for meals etc.  These all need to be discussed and agreed to and written up in a formal contract.  Also you want a direct pay process for expenses and NOT later reimbursement.  A company credit card or prepaid expenses by the corporation is necessary.

There are a considerable number of other details and variables involved that enter into any costing and it is individual to the particular project.

skieur


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## ironsidephoto

thanks!


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## scorpion_tyr

Just an idea, but maybe you can charge them a per diem rate, or a certain amount of money per day depending on your location. This can be used for food, transportation, etc and you can choose if you wish to include your lodging or not. For an idea of how much to charge you can see what the US Military pays their people per day when they travel.

Per Diem Rates


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## ironsidephoto

Very interesting, scorpion. They're paying airfaire/lodging, but I don't know about food yet...I'll find out on Friday.


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## SusanMart

Will they pay you for the session or successful shots?

I think this is the first thing to decide.

It's important whether you make like 20000 shots (as a session) and get money, or just 5 great pics are fine.


Settle down with this first, and then it'll be clearer


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## bennielou

I do destination weddings, and here is how I price it.

Normal rate
Plus boarding for dogs
Plus the cost of a house sitter for the Koi
Travel
Per Diem
Car Rental
Luggage costs.

Hope that helps.


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## bennielou

SusanMart said:


> Will they pay you for the session or successful shots?
> 
> I think this is the first thing to decide.
> 
> It's important whether you make like 20000 shots (as a session) and get money, or just 5 great pics are fine.
> 
> 
> Settle down with this first, and then it'll be clearer


 

People always pay for a successful shot. In the commercial world that is all that matters.  It's not about sessions in the commercial business.  It's about that "zing" shot that sells stuff.


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## c.cloudwalker

You are talking about two different things. What to charge? What rights you have to the photos?

You own the copyright to every image unless you are working under a work-for-hire contract. Under work-for-hire, you have no rights whatsoever. The images belong to the company.

In the other case, your own the copyrights but that doesn't mean you can use the photos. You need to read up on copyright and usage law.


As far as pay is concerned, from what I understand of what you would be doing, I would charge a day fee plus all expenses not directly covered by them. Food is one of them although, keep in mind that if you were home you still would be eating and no one would pay for it. Meaning you may not want to charge for the total of that cost. A set per day food fee is better. 

What those fees are depend entirely on your experience, your name value, how badly you want the job, etc, etc.

Usage fees are separate and they are determined by the usage. A photo used for a nationwide billboard campaign will have a much higher usage fee than one used in a newsletter read by a few hundred people.

Those are things that joining a pro organization (ASMP is one) can help you figure out while very hard to do here through a thread. Too many variables to cover everything in a few posts.

Good luck though.


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## KmH

ironsidephoto said:


> I may be getting an offer from a large corporation to travel to other countries and take photos of factory conditions. They'd fly me there, put me up, etc. However, I need to figure out how much I should charge them so they can give me an offer.
> 
> Any ideas on how I should price this? By the day? How much? I'd just be giving them all the photos for corporate use.
> 
> Thanks for your ideas...I'll need them.


Is it a US based corporation?

Do they own the factories where you will shoot?

Have you discussed contract terms with them yet? Will it be a week by week thing? Quarterly? Yearly? 

Or, will you be on call? What are they going to be using the images for? Just internally? for Marketing and advertising?

What happens if they decide they no longer require your services while you are in another country? How do you get home?

Have you ever heard of the Berne Convention?


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## skieur

c.cloudwalker said:


> You are talking about two different things. What to charge? What rights you have to the photos?
> 
> You own the copyright to every image unless you are working under a work-for-hire contract. Under work-for-hire, you have no rights whatsoever. The images belong to the company.
> 
> In the other case, your own the copyrights but that doesn't mean you can use the photos. You need to read up on copyright and usage law.
> 
> 
> As far as pay is concerned, from what I understand of what you would be doing, I would charge a day fee plus all expenses not directly covered by them. Food is one of them although, keep in mind that if you were home you still would be eating and no one would pay for it. Meaning you may not want to charge for the total of that cost. A set per day food fee is better.
> 
> What those fees are depend entirely on your experience, your name value, how badly you want the job, etc, etc.
> 
> Usage fees are separate and they are determined by the usage. A photo used for a nationwide billboard campaign will have a much higher usage fee than one used in a newsletter read by a few hundred people.
> 
> Those are things that joining a pro organization (ASMP is one) can help you figure out while very hard to do here through a thread. Too many variables to cover everything in a few posts.
> 
> Good luck though.


 
It depends on who is signing whose contract and who is setting the terms.  Keep in mind that it is not to your advantage at all, to have the company pay for the photos it wants to use, and then sell any photos you take that are not used, to another agency to recover their costs.  If this is what they want, then you should be charging a related higher price.

On the other hand, if your contract says that you own the copyright to any photos not chosen or used by them, then you can charge them less, and the unused photos may provide further income to you.

Most confident pros set their own terms in contracts or charge higher where the customer wants more rights.

skieur


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## c.cloudwalker

skieur said:


> It depends on who is signing whose contract and who is setting the terms.  Keep in mind that it is not to your advantage at all, to have the company pay for the photos it wants to use, and then sell any photos you take that are not used, to another agency to recover their costs.  If this is what they want, then you should be charging a related higher price.
> 
> On the other hand, if your contract says that you own the copyright to any photos not chosen or used by them, then you can charge them less, and the unused photos may provide further income to you.
> 
> Most confident pros set their own terms in contracts or charge higher where the customer wants more rights.
> 
> skieur



Another load of...

It depends on who is signing whose contract and who is setting the terms. Excuse me but isn't that the case with any contract no matter what industry the contract is about?

Keep in mind that it is not to your advantage at all, to have the company pay for the photos it wants to use, and then sell any photos you take that are not used, to another agency to recover their costs. Last time I checked the company has no right to sell images it didn't buy. It either buys them or it doesn't. If you are trying to repeat what I said about work-for-hire contracts, make it clear. Not only that but unless it is a work-for-hire contract the company has no right whatsoever to re-sell photos it bought. They only bought usage.

If you are talking about the very rare case of a company buying an image with 100% all rights, also make that clear. I say rare case because no one in their right mind would sell under those conditions.


On the other hand, if your contract says that you own the copyright to any photos not chosen or used by them, then you can charge them less, and the unused photos may provide further income to you. Although that is technically true, it never quite works this way if you are shooting their property. First, you would need a release from the company to sell images of their private property. Two, who wants to buy photos of someone else's property? Yes, there are cases, but be specific. The likelyhood of selling any of those images is slim to none.


Most confident pros set their own terms in contracts or charge higher where the customer wants more rights. The only part of your response I can somewhat agree with. Only somewhat because a contract is the result of negotiations and that usually means that neither party gets everything they want. Get over it.


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## ironsidephoto

Whoa! Thanks for all the responses...I hadn't checked this in a while and was totally surprised when I looked again.

I met with them again today (I'm not sure if I should disclose who it is at this point), and I have a few more details. 

It would be more of a work-for-hire deal, and they would own all of the images I gave them, essentially. They basically said that up front...deal or no deal type of thing. I couldn't sell the images afterwards, though I would be able to use them on my website/portfolio, etc. They'd pay for my airfare and lodging and other relevant expenses along with about $10000 (ballpark?) to travel to a country for a few days and take photos in a factory to document conditions. It's for their ethical standards dept....brochures, yearly updates, images for shareholders, etc.

Let's just say it's a big, big (big) company, and they know I haven't been in the business very long...but they've been very nice and I really think they are trying to help me out.


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## Infidel

ironsidephoto said:


> Let's just say it's a big, big (big) company, and they know I haven't been in the business very long...but they've been very nice and I really think they are trying to help me out.



Given this clue, your location and the nature of the assignment, I suppose it shouldn't take too many guesses to figure this one out.

Anyway, I think you've gotten some good advice already in this thread. In the worst case, you might finish the job and realize you could have gotten a better deal, but you'll still get to put this gig on your resume.


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## GeneralBenson

ironsidephoto said:


> Whoa! Thanks for all the responses...I hadn't checked this in a while and was totally surprised when I looked again.
> 
> I met with them again today (I'm not sure if I should disclose who it is at this point), and I have a few more details.
> 
> It would be more of a work-for-hire deal, and they would own all of the images I gave them, essentially. They basically said that up front...deal or no deal type of thing. I couldn't sell the images afterwards, though I would be able to use them on my website/portfolio, etc. They'd pay for my airfare and lodging and other relevant expenses along with about $10000 (ballpark?) to travel to a country for a few days and take photos in a factory to document conditions. It's for their ethical standards dept....brochures, yearly updates, images for shareholders, etc.
> 
> Let's just say it's a big, big (big) company, and they know I haven't been in the business very long...but they've been very nice and I really think they are trying to help me out.




So you're getting $10,000 plus they are paying for travel, lodging and expenses?  How many days of shooting will it be, and how many final images do they want?


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## KmH

GeneralBenson said:


> ironsidephoto said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whoa! Thanks for all the responses...I hadn't checked this in a while and was totally surprised when I looked again.
> 
> I met with them again today (I'm not sure if I should disclose who it is at this point), and I have a few more details.
> 
> It would be more of a work-for-hire deal, and they would own all of the images I gave them, essentially. They basically said that up front...deal or no deal type of thing. I couldn't sell the images afterwards, though I would be able to use them on my website/portfolio, etc. They'd pay for my airfare and lodging and other relevant expenses along with about $10000 (ballpark?) to travel to a country for a few days and take photos in a factory to document conditions. It's for their ethical standards dept....brochures, yearly updates, images for shareholders, etc.
> 
> Let's just say it's a big, big (big) company, and they know I haven't been in the business very long...but they've been very nice and I really think they are trying to help me out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you're getting $10,000 plus they are paying for travel, lodging and expenses? How many days of shooting will it be, and how many final images do they want?
Click to expand...

 That was back in April.


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## Infidel

KmH said:


> That was back in April.



My bad...slow-moving forum, I suppose.


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## GeneralBenson

Gah!!  I've been noobed.


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## smokinphoto

The usual method is to charge for time plus photos used unless they are willing to pay for your travel, hotel cost and all.


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