# Suicide Girls: A rational discussion!



## RMThompson (Apr 13, 2008)

Ok, before I say anything let me preface this by saying two things:

1. I have not worked for Suicide Girls, signed a contract with Suicide Girls, nor am I affiliated with them in ANY way.

2. YES I've read the other threads both on this forum and on others.

Now, with that out of the way, I'd like to have a rational discussion about SG, what they are, what they aren't and why or why not someone should work with them.

From what I understand people on this forum, and others, always offer advice not to work with suicide girls based on their contract. Their contract specifically mentions a non-competetition clause for two years once you work with them against any "SG COMPETITORS"... and yes, they loosely define an "SG COMPETITOR" as, and here I quote;



> "Other websites that are pay sites featuring nude modeling and tattooed/ pierced girls"


 
So, that being said once you work for SG you cannot work for another pay site that features nude woman that are of the "tattooed/pierced" persuasian.

The other big issue people seem to point out is when they sued a photographer for taking pictures of his wife. It seems that people paint the picture that they were takings pictures at home, posted them on their blog and was sued, but the truth of the matter was it was a Suicide Girl who wanted to break out on her OWN and create her OWN paysite and her husband was her photographer. They sued them for breaking the above non-compete clause. 

The question I have here is... What's the issue?

I mean, I can see how it COULD be an issue for a lot of models and photogs, if they intend on working in this enviroment with other websites, or in the case mentioned above, intend on creating their own pay site... but for MANY photogs and models, myself included, Suicide Girls would be the only "pay site" they would be working for.

Moreover, Suicide Girls is a HUGE website. Their is a thriving community there, and I could see how being a part of it may be beneficial to my career's health. Once you work for them a few times, and if they like you, you can become a staff photographer, and make a considerable amount of money each photoshoot accepted, and there are 60 photoshoots accepted a month... plenty of room for openings. On top of that they also help find you models to work with, as there are tons of SG Hopefuls, and that could help finding new models for the site.

So I feel like I am missing something. I just re-read this and I sound very DEFENSIVE of them, and I am not trying to be. I am TRYING to be in the middle, listening to both sides of the story. Last time this was discussed there was plenty of "don't do it" posts, but very little discussion outside of the specific case I mentioned.

If you've had personal experience with them, LET ME KNOW. If you don't want to post it here, PM me and we can discuss it offlist... just help me make the right decision! 

Thanks!


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## JIP (Apr 13, 2008)

I hear you completely people go into (or should) situations with their eyes open.  If you sign a non-compete or some other stipulation in a contract you need to be pretty sure you are getting your side of it and be prepared for the consequenses when you do.  I am sure there are a million photographers and models out there that are willing to follow the terms of the SG's contract and there are also a million others out there that want to complain about it.  If it so bad I can't imagine why so many people rush into it headlong.


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## Mike_E (Apr 13, 2008)

Hi RM. If this both draws you and concerns you at the same time, it is my considered opinion (yes I thought about it for more than 35 seconds) that spending the fee on a lawyer is called for here.

You would need a copy of the contract of course.  You will also need to have a Long talk with any significant other.  You can see where this conversation would need to happen but as you are a writer also allow me to point you to a photographer's site.  

You will need to start at the beginning and it will take a while but if you study the photos and the subject matter while taking into account the comments made for each one, I think that you will find an amazing insight into the growth/progression/trials/tribs/life of a photographer.  

It's  amazing that this guy would open himself up so much on the web, maybe he doesn't know he's done.  In any case  it's a cautionary tale  with some successes and hair-pin curves as well. 

I present for your perusal  
http://www.asc.upenn.edu/usr/cassidy/pix/pad/index.html


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## Village Idiot (Apr 14, 2008)

Here's my outlook on the issue. 

Say I shoot food photography for restaurants. If I shoot for an Italian restaurant in town, I'm not going to sign a contract saying you cannot shoot for any competing Italian restaurants. 

Photographers aren't expected to do this, afaik.


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## JIP (Apr 14, 2008)

Village Idiot said:


> Here's my outlook on the issue.
> 
> Say I shoot food photography for restaurants. If I shoot for an Italian restaurant in town, I'm not going to sign a contract saying you cannot shoot for any competing Italian restaurants.
> 
> Photographers aren't expected to do this, afaik.


Right _you _would not sign a contract like this others who want their images on a very popular website and to possibly get some assignments from them would (and do) consider signing a contract like this.  When I started wedding photography I signed a 2 year non-compete contract.  The reasn for this was the guy was training me and did not want to waste his time training me and have me jump ship to someone else as soon as I felt comfortable waith shooting weddings.  Photographers _are _expected to do this on a daily basis some do it and some don't that is thier choice.


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## RMThompson (Apr 14, 2008)

I agree with what JIP said, but also consider it another way.

You used the analogy of restaurants. Let's say I focus on restaurants, but a sushi place wants me to shoot for them, but that means I cannot shoot any sushi places for two years. Well, if I don't do ANY sushi places now, nor plan on it, doesn't it make sense to do it?

I just don't plan on working for any other nude paysites, even those that AREN'T for tattooed/pierced girls.


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## bhop (Apr 14, 2008)

You might not plan it now, but you never know when opportunities will arise.  

I'm speaking from a graphic design background.  As a freelance designer, which I think works similar to freelance photographers, you just don't know when a huge opportunity will fall in your lap.  If you're stuck in a contract, you could really miss out.


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## photogincollege (Apr 14, 2008)

I have and do shoot for suicide girls.  I frankly have no problem with the contract.  Like others have said, i dont plan on getting into photographing more nude models for a paysite anytime soon, or at all for that matter, and I gladly work for them, and have had no problems.


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## JIP (Apr 14, 2008)

bhop said:


> You might not plan it now, but you never know when opportunities will arise.
> 
> I'm speaking from a graphic design background. As a freelance designer, which I think works similar to freelance photographers, you just don't know when a huge opportunity will fall in your lap. If you're stuck in a contract, you could really miss out.


 
And that's why you don't work for them.  Ohers do make the decision that the things signing _that _contract does do for them is worth the tradeoff.


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## Iron Flatline (Apr 15, 2008)

In most states Non-Compete clauses are unenforcible. California wouldn't have entertainment or software industries, for instance. New York wouldn't have advertisement. And so on.


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## schumionbike (Apr 15, 2008)

Whether the non competition clause is enforce or not depend on how reasonable it is, it is a matter that really depend on public policy and not on any particular law.  I mean, non -competition clause among doctor are not enforcible since the patients might die if they don't get to see a particular doctor or have to travel very far to see them.  It's not uncommon to have non-competition in law firm when one of the partner leave the firm.  Not seeing the same lawyer usually don't mean life or death and if you have to travel a little farther to see them, it's not that big a deal. 

From what the OP has posted here, it seem like the non-competion clause is reasonable, however, I would have to look much further to be sure.


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## Mike_E (Apr 15, 2008)

schumionbike said:


> Whether the non competition clause is enforce or not depend on how reasonable it is, it is a matter that really depend on public policy and not on any particular law.  I mean, non -competition clause among doctor are not enforcible since the patients might die if they don't get to see a particular doctor or have to travel very far to see them.  It's not uncommon to have non-competition in law firm when one of the partner leave the firm.  Not seeing the same lawyer usually don't mean life or death and if you have to travel a little farther to see them, it's not that big a deal.
> 
> From what the OP has posted here, it seem like the non-competion clause is reasonable, however, I would have to look much further to be sure.



Which is why a lawyer is cheap at twice the price.  

oh, wait, somebody already said that.   LOL


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## Mike_E (Apr 15, 2008)

Sorry to double post but I want to point out that lawyers need head shots from time to time and for a few simple questions some are willing to trade services.


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## kundalini (Apr 15, 2008)

Mike_E said:


> Sorry to double post but I want to point out that lawyers need head shots from time to time and for a few simple questions some are willing to trade services.


That's one of the most interesting suggestions I've read in quite a while. 

After writing that check today, I will certainly bring that up to my tax preparer next year as well.


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## Rhys (Apr 15, 2008)

My take on it...

I don't much care for the name "suicide girls" and hence don't want to have anything to do with them. Discussions on the internet are generally fairly meaningless and any inference that they're good or bad should be taken with a large pinch of salt. Personally, I would rather pick up a model from a local agency that I could actually walk into.


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## JIP (Apr 15, 2008)

Mike_E said:


> Sorry to double post but I want to point out that lawyers need head shots from time to time and for a few simple questions some are willing to trade services.


 
That's a great suggestion any idea what caliber would be the best to use or should we go straight to a shotgun?.


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## Mike_E (Apr 15, 2008)

kundalini said:


> That's one of the most interesting suggestions I've read in quite a while.
> 
> After writing that check today, I will certainly bring that up to my tax preparer next year as well.



I did a yellow pages add for my 'accountant' in lou of fees.  

Oh, and JIP.. I think the larger the caliber, the longer the sentence.   (Persecutors are lawyers too )


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