# My first attempt at HDR



## WesternGuy (Jan 22, 2011)

Those of you who have read my previous post and the answers to it, will see that I appear to have two choices. So I am going to try both of them (one in this post and the other in my next post) and see if I can make either of them work for me and if they both work, then I guess that is success...

My first HDR attempt was of a sunset in Naples, Florida on a holiday last November. I took 3 images (all I knew about that my camera could do at the time, the usual +2, 0, -2) loaded them into Lightroom 3.3 where I do most of my editing and then ran them through HDR Pro in CS5 and the result should show below, if I can correctly follow the instructions I was given...I didn't record any of the setting at the time, but I do remember doing a bit of tweaking in the HDR component of CS5 after the tone mapping. 

I am going to start a "log" or "journal" of some kind so I can record the software I use and the various post-conversion editing that I do, I just have to arrange something so I can print a copy of the image to go with the log entry. I am thinking I will design a Word document to handle all this info and share it with folks, if they would like, when I get it finished to where I am happy with it and feel it "works for me".






IMG_1211-Edit.jpg by edgeland1rm, on Flickr

Success at last. C&C welcome, but be kind, this is just a start and I want to learn from this. Here is the "0" or regular image...




(flickr reference edited out for looks - my doing to compare with and without)

Works for me, for now. I have since acquired Photomatix Pro 4.0 and Nik's HDR Efex Pro - relatively cheaply with discounts and I am looking to see what happens when I run the same pics through these apps, but that will take me a while as I have other things making demands on my time - like actually going out and taking pictures, now that the daytime temp is above 0° C for a few days.

Regards, 

WesternGuy


----------



## ann (Jan 22, 2011)

What does the "normal" shot look like? There is a chance this photo could have been made without using HDR techniques.

The shadow area in the clouds on my monitor are just "blobs of grey" which are very distracting.

Your idea about tracking info for yourself is a good idea, (imho)  If your using PS, you can have the software track that for you.  I started logging info when I first started with digital; in fact made up all sorts of forms, etc and then found out the software could do that but i had to inform it to do so.  just a thought


----------



## myshkin (Jan 22, 2011)

people have a tendency to pick odd subjects for their first attempts. I made the same mistake. Shoot somewhere during sunset where you want the sky and foreground exposed well, or shoot indoors with a room with weird lighting. Don't bother trying to get a great shot just take some shots and practice processing.


----------



## Bynx (Jan 22, 2011)

When commenting on a picture its pretty difficult when the pic is so small there is no detail to comment on. The comment made that this shot could have been made without HDR is to be ignored. Whether it could or not doesnt matter. The point here is you did it as an HDR. Now whether another method could have produced a better result is another story. So first off Id like to see a larger post so I can see the details in both the water and the clouds. This kind of shot can work as an HDR but where there is a vast range of light from very bright to very dark works better and HDR really brings it out there.


----------



## ann (Jan 22, 2011)

Bynx , the comment was made to help the op realize time would be better spent working with images that will give better results up front.

I have made several images of similar subject matter with better results, so I am not just throwing BS around.


----------



## WesternGuy (Jan 22, 2011)

ann said:


> What does the "normal" shot look like? There is a chance this photo could have been made without using HDR techniques.
> 
> The shadow area in the clouds on my monitor are just "blobs of grey" which are very distracting.
> 
> Your idea about tracking info for yourself is a good idea, (imho) If your using PS, you can have the software track that for you. I started logging info when I first started with digital; in fact made up all sorts of forms, etc and then found out the software could do that but i had to inform it to do so. just a thought


 
Thanks Ann. The "normal" or "0" shot should be the second image posted. If it doesn't show up for you, follow the lead to my flickr account - click on the "edgeland1rm" under the HDR image and that should take you there - the "normal" shot is posted on flickr as well, you just have to scroll down a bit to find it.

I know what you mean by "blobs of grey", but hey, I am just starting out, besides the sunset seemed like an ideal place to start. There wasn't much detail in the clouds to begin with as I recollect, particularly with the sun behind them.  Maybe I need to do some adjusting of the tone mapping parameters (any suggestions?) next time...

As far as "tracking the information" is concerned, now that I have Phototmatix and Nik's HDR Efex software, I will probably need to track the info for myself and that way, I can also track which piece of software was used, but thanks for the info that PS can do that as well - didn't know that, so I will have to check it out.

Regards,

WesternGuy


----------



## WesternGuy (Jan 22, 2011)

Bynx said:


> When commenting on a picture its pretty difficult when the pic is so small there is no detail to comment on. The comment made that this shot could have been made without HDR is to be ignored. Whether it could or not doesnt matter. The point here is you did it as an HDR. Now whether another method could have produced a better result is another story. So first off Id like to see a larger post so I can see the details in both the water and the clouds. This kind of shot can work as an HDR but where there is a vast range of light from very bright to very dark works better and HDR really brings it out there.


 
Bynx, thanks for the comments. You have identified, I think, one of the problems with posting in general. One goes from the original raw image (large, very, detailed) to a jpg for posting to places like flickr...smaller image, less detail, etc., but I will see if I can figure out how to post a larger image from flickr, if that is possible.

WesternGuy


----------



## WesternGuy (Jan 22, 2011)

myshkin said:


> people have a tendency to pick odd subjects for their first attempts. I made the same mistake. Shoot somewhere during sunset where you want the sky and foreground exposed well, or shoot indoors with a room with weird lighting. Don't bother trying to get a great shot just take some shots and practice processing.


 
Thanks myshkin - believe me my objective was not to try and get a "great shot" - I simply felt that sunsets, because of the wide range of light and contrast would be a reasonable place to try out HDR for the first time.  Right now, I am making a list of things I want to shoot when things warm up and access roads are open and cleared of the metres of snow that falls in the mountains each winter, so I can hardly wait for Spring to come.

WesternGuy


----------



## ann (Jan 22, 2011)

I realize we all have to start someplace, and my comment was an attempt to be of help


----------



## WesternGuy (Jan 22, 2011)

ann said:


> I realize we all have to start someplace, and my comment was an attempt to be of help


 
Ann, no problem - I hope you were able to see the "normal" shot for comparison. :sillysmi:

I guess you have raised another question for me, at least, and that is - what consitutes a "good candidate" for HDR, because on this forum and a couple of others, I have seen everything from the inside of beautiful cathedrals to vehicles partially buried in the ground, to "questionable" landscapes and so on, and then there are the works of people like Brian Matiash and others who cover an incredibly wide range of subjects. I have even seen people use it on wedding portraits ?? This topic could be the subject of a whole new discussion thread - I'm sure.

I chose the sunset, because I thought it would provide me with a reasonably high contrast scene, that's all. Most of the things I shoot do not have enough contrast in them, I suspect, to warrant the use of HDR, the one exception may be some of the mountain landscapes, where you have the sky and mountains surrounded by thick, evergreen forests and I want to bring out some of the detail in the forests - I have tried many things to get that detail, but what works for the trees does not often work for the mountains and blows out the skies, thus I want to try some HDR on some of this type of landscape (look at my avatar, small as it is, for example). I will do this later this year, after Spring comes to the mountains, while there is still some snow left on the peaks, but after the metres of regular snow are gone from the trees and some of the roads, now closed for winter, are re-opened. I'm making a list and checking it twice, so to speak :mrgreen:.

Cheers,

WesternGuy


----------



## Bynx (Jan 22, 2011)

Too often the remark is made -- You could have done it another way other than HDR. Probably true but the remark should be ignored when reading it in the HDR forum. Whats the point of saying that when the very point is to create an HDR image. Whether that image is good or bad is what should be discussed and how it can be improved as an HDR and not as anything else. You want something else, go to that forum. This one is for HDR so take them for what they are. There are so many things to discuss about every HDR image but suggesting not to do it as an HDR isnt one of them especially to someone posting their first HDR image. Whether the HDR is good or bad is the point and how to fix any problems that others see is more important than stating that it could have been done as something other than with HDR tools.
WesternGuy you might try TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting as the means to upload your pics.
When you get there just click BROWSE, then select your image. Then click UPLOAD NOW the type the coded words and click UPLOAD NOW. When the next window opens select IMG Code for Forums & Message Boards. Copy and paste that into the message box for the site following any message written.


----------



## myshkin (Jan 22, 2011)

westernguy sunsets are great times to take advantage of HDR but your shot is more of a direct sunset shot with nothing really in the foreground. Most people use it at sunset to get the sky and sunset in the back and to have something well exposed in the foreground. As bynx says HDR can be applied to anything including the type of pic you shot, but when learning I don't think its a great shot to practice on. 
You don't need to wait till the snow melts to practice. Turn on a couple lamps in your livingroom and give it a go. Go to a church or library or mall.


----------



## WesternGuy (Jan 22, 2011)

myshkin said:


> westernguy sunsets are great times to take advantage of HDR but your shot is more of a direct sunset shot with nothing really in the foreground. Most people use it at sunset to get the sky and sunset in the back and to have something well exposed in the foreground. As bynx says HDR can be applied to anything including the type of pic you shot, but when learning I don't think its a great shot to practice on.
> You don't need to wait till the snow melts to practice. Turn on a couple lamps in your livingroom and give it a go. Go to a church or library or mall.


 Interesting perspective on sunset shots, hey, for me it was a first time experiment or practice and I wasn't aware that some people would not see this as being an eligible undertaking...as I mentioned to Ann, most of what I do doesn't have the dynamic range to warrant HDR, so I was on vacation in Florida, staying with friends in Naples and they said "let's go watch the sunset" - which it does about 5:30 p.m. local time, so I thought..."here is a potential opportunity to try out some HDR that I had heard and read about" - so I did...and you are seeing one of my first results - there are others that I tried at different times and on different days and maybe I will post some of these when I have had a chance to review them - I am not that happy with some of them myself.

Believe me, I am definitely not going to wait until the snow melts, well maybe some places in the mountains, road access is difficult and most roads are very slippery and a lot of them are closed for the winter because driving is too dangerous and the province can't afford to keep them open all year round - much too expensive, given the little traffic that they would have in the winter.  The main highways are okay, except they do get closed because of avalanche hazard, as has happened recently...beside, too much traffic and the backroads take you to all the good places to shoot (in the non-winter seasons)   Having said that, there are still lots of places to go and practice - I was thinking I might go to some of the local vantage points and shoot some wide-angle cityscapes and see how they work out, as well, there are lots of natural parks and such in and around the city to venture into - sky's the limit.  As for churches, libraries and malls...I tend to stay away from places that attract people - presents too many problems with "taking pictures in public", although I would agree churches are not really public in the sense that malls and libraries are.  For example, there was a case last summer of a local chap taking pictures in a local park and people harassed him to the extent of calling police because they thought he was taking pictures of the small children (pervert??), when, in reality, he was simply photographing flowers and the like.  He left after police talked to him and reviewed his images, and I doubt that he would ever go back, I know I would not, so I stay away from places with people - too many potential problems.  Can you imagine the attention it would attract from mall security if one was to go and set up a tripod and start taking pictures in a mall - one can only guess...

The other thing is that while snow is not the real issue, except, maybe in the mountains, cold is, until a few days ago we were basking in temperatures around -20° to -30° C with windchills from -25° to -35°.  Now we are up around +2° to +5° C and that makes it a little better, but it won't last for more than a week, then back to the cold for a month or so.  I notice that you are from Lima, so you are now experiencing summer and I have absolutely no idea what your winters are like - I just checked Wikipedia and your summers are hotter than ours, but your winters are not quite as cold - makes a difference, but I am sure you realize that.  The snow and some cold don't bother me, but try being out there in -20° C with a 20 to 30 km (+) an hour wind - not nice, so I tend to spend more time in the winter reviewing old photos and learning about new techniques - like HDR - but I do get out at times when the wind stops and the sun is out and the temperature is reasonable.  Next year - more warm winter holidays!!!:thumbup:

Cheers,

WesternGuy


----------



## WesternGuy (Jan 22, 2011)

Bynx said:


> Too often the remark is made -- You could have done it another way other than HDR. Probably true but the remark should be ignored when reading it in the HDR forum. Whats the point of saying that when the very point is to create an HDR image. Whether that image is good or bad is what should be discussed and how it can be improved as an HDR and not as anything else. You want something else, go to that forum. This one is for HDR so take them for what they are. There are so many things to discuss about every HDR image but suggesting not to do it as an HDR isnt one of them especially to someone posting their first HDR image. Whether the HDR is good or bad is the point and how to fix any problems that others see is more important than stating that it could have been done as something other than with HDR tools.
> WesternGuy you might try TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting as the means to upload your pics.
> When you get there just click BROWSE, then select your image. Then click UPLOAD NOW the type the coded words and click UPLOAD NOW. When the next window opens select IMG Code for Forums & Message Boards. Copy and paste that into the message box for the site following any message written.


 
Bynx, I would agree with your opening remarks - how do I make it (the HDR image) better...this is one of the reasons I stated in one of my postings that I might start making logs of my HDR conversions so I can remember what I did and post that info along with the picture, that way when folks are kind enough to offer helpful critiques, I can look back and see what I did and maybe what I could have/should have done.

I wasn't aware of "TinyPic" and I will have a look at it, but I also think I can post larger images from flickr, so I will give that a shot first.  I am trying to keep my images in one place on the net, so I don't have them scattered around - right now I have a few of my non-HDR pics on Photobucket, but that was for a very specific reason.  As well, I use Lightroom in my processing and it has a preset for uploading to flickr which makes it a lot easier to do and it helps me keep track of what I have posted up there.

Regards,

WesternGuy


----------



## ann (Jan 22, 2011)

So BYnx, it is ok for you to ask about posting a normal exposure but not me.

Sorry I don't play by your rules. It doesn't help people learn the technique if they don't understand when it should be used.

It seems I need to go else.


----------



## myshkin (Jan 22, 2011)

why would you leave over 1 persons comments


----------



## WesternGuy (Jan 22, 2011)

^^^  Ann what myshkin said - please don't let a difference of opinion chase you away, someone has to ask the pointed question(s) - there would be no use for these forums if people could not have an honest difference of opinion and agree to disagree.  As I said in a previous reply, you have raised the question of when HDR should or should not be used - the "normal" picture was also posted so you can comment on that one versus the HDR version.  Please remember though that for me it was, as I have said, an experiment to try it (HDR) out to see what would happen, sort of like going to the store and trying out a new lens or a new camera, or test-driving a new car - I was trying out a technique I had never tried before - whether or not it was an appropriate usage, well I guess that is up to me and the viewers to decide if they like the result or not - there is a lot I liked about it and some things I did not like about it - maybe my expectations were too high for the first time, but I do agree that anyone has the "right" to question whether it is appropriate usage of the technique or not.  To be honest with you, I look at some of the images posted on other threads in this forum and threads in other HDR forums and sometimes my response is "okay, is this really giving you what you want" - "so what is HDR doing for you on this one", or "this one is really overdone (overcooked was one person's expression)", not unlike your response/question, I just don't have the guts to ask  .

Regards,

WesternGuy

P.S.  I have also recently run across something called the "Orton" effect and now for my next experiment...


----------



## Bynx (Jan 22, 2011)

Im truly sorry Ann. I think we are talking cross purpose here. Asking for the original file is often required to figure out where the HDR image is coming from. But if I was in the B&W forum and someone said it would probably be better in color, while  true, is really a mute point since its the B&W forum. In the Bird forum suggesting maybe the pic could look better if it was a butterfly instead is also mute since its not the butterfly forum. In the HDR forum suggesting the pic would be better if it wasnt an HDR just seems kind of obtuse to me since it is the HDR forum. I hope we can just drop this and move on. Anything I say is just my opinion so take that for what its worth. 

WesternGuy you mention Orton Effect. Unlike HDR, Orton Effect works ok in some instances like wooded leafy scenes. But for the most part its just degrading the image to a blurry mess. Its a style you have to either like or not. In my opinion.


----------



## WesternGuy (Jan 22, 2011)

Bynx, the Orton effect is just something I have discovered recently and haven't had a chance to even read up on to any extent, but I am an experimenter by nature, so when I hear about new things I file them away in the back of my mind, what's left of it...and carry on.  Whether it will work for me, or not, remains to be seen, so I guess I will see if I like it or not at some point, but need to check it out some more to see what is needed and why, but this is getting way off topic.  I think we have beat the daylights out of my posting so far, so I guess I will go and look at some of the newer ones here and take what was said and put it to work for my next attempt at HDR.

Cheers,

WesternGuy


----------



## Bynx (Jan 22, 2011)

You might check this out. If you are using Photoshop its a nice tutorial on Orton Effect.

Apply ORTON effect with Photoshop.


----------



## WesternGuy (Jan 23, 2011)

Thanks Bynx.

WesternGuy


----------



## thatfornoobs (Jan 25, 2011)

Loving the colors in the water!


----------



## WesternGuy (Jan 25, 2011)

that fornoobs, thanks for your kind comment.  They are appreciated.

coolfunweb, I am not sure what you mean by your comment, perhaps you would care to expand on it. Thanks....

WesternGuy


----------

