# Ok, let me explain...



## SabrinaO (Aug 9, 2011)

I don't know why I feel the need to explain myself, but its just bothering me that many of you on here think or assume I dont appreciate advice, or can take constructive criticism. That is not true at all. I wouldn't grow as a photographer if I didn't take advice. I just don't appreciate the APPROACH most of you give it to...to myself, and to others on here.  I don't know what it is about this forum, but it seems like most of you are in some kind of contest on who can give the most sarcastic, condesending, "asshole" response to someone's question or CC. I dont know why many of you do this. Maybe you do it to get some laughs, "likes" or maybe you need to feel better about yourselves, I don't know. Whatever it is.. its just not cool. _You _know what you are doing and why you do it. I know im valid in this argument because I get about 2-3 pms every time I log on here from someone either scared to stand up, or someone applauding me for standing up against the people who aren't *_really* _here to help.(if you know what I mean) I even get pms from people apologizing for their "asshole" behavior...............

Anyways you can give _constructive _critism without being purposely and intentionally destructive and rude. Treat those how you wanna be treated. No you shouldnt sugar coat ANYTHING and you should tell it like it is but just remember.. we are all humans behind that screen name. Nobody wants to get nasty, snide, sarcastic remarks about their efforts. You can give a constructive response without doing that. I mean how do you expect someone to look past that? I consider getting good advice and constructive critiques about my flaws like getting a piece of cake. But if you give someone a piece of cake and spit in it first, don't expect someone to eat it or look past you spitting in it.


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## bigtwinky (Aug 9, 2011)

Argh... it's things like this that made me leave the forum in the first place many months ago.


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## Robin Usagani (Aug 9, 2011)

I agree with what you said but same goes with you.  Be more humble and you will go a long way.


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## gsgary (Aug 9, 2011)

I have every qualification for Assholeism, you need to get a sense of humour


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## e.rose (Aug 9, 2011)

bigtwinky said:


> Argh... it's things like this that made me leave the forum in the first place many months ago.




DON'T YOU DARE GO AWAY AGAIN.


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## Robin Usagani (Aug 9, 2011)

shall I pull the sh!t gary said to me a while back?


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## tirediron (Aug 9, 2011)

As someone who spends a bit of time on this board, I don't remember any exceptionally snide, sarcastic, or @$$hole remarks.  Could you pls indicate some of those responses you feel to be innapropriate?  Did you report them to the moderating staff?


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## cameleon (Aug 9, 2011)

I'd take it as a compliment that ppl 'critique' ur pics... Even if it does seem harsh. It means someone took the time to take a look... Could have easily skipped ur pics and said nothing, but decided to stop and write something anyway...

Chin up, girl


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## gsgary (Aug 9, 2011)

cameleon said:


> I'd take it as a compliment that ppl 'critique' ur pics... Even if it does seem harsh. It means someone took the time to take a look... Could have easily skipped ur pics and said nothing, but decided to stop and write something anyway...
> 
> Chin up, girl



Thats what i will be doing from no on


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## SrBiscuit (Aug 9, 2011)

bigtwinky said:


> Argh... it's things like this that made me leave the forum in the first place many months ago.



funny you say that...i came back today after a few months of leaving this place, and the first thread i read was a dramatic $hitshow....so i feel your frustration BT.


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## Robin Usagani (Aug 9, 2011)

Yeah.. I missed the day I got grilled all the time. Now my posts barely get any hits .  I guess my stuff isnt bad enough nor amazing enough.


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## e.rose (Aug 9, 2011)

SrBiscuit said:


> bigtwinky said:
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> > Argh... it's things like this that made me leave the forum in the first place many months ago.
> ...



YOU CAN'T LEAVE AGAIN EITHER!!!!!


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## SabrinaO (Aug 9, 2011)

bigtwinky said:


> Argh... it's things like this that made me leave the forum in the first place many months ago.




I know right? So you too agree with me?


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## SrBiscuit (Aug 9, 2011)

e.rose said:


> SrBiscuit said:
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awwww...what's up em?
i'll never leave you...we'll always have flickr. lol


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## SabrinaO (Aug 9, 2011)

Schwettylens said:


> I agree with what you said but same goes with you.  Be more humble and you will go a long way.



Be more humble? How do I come across?


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## e.rose (Aug 9, 2011)

SrBiscuit said:


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Nuffing. 

I just noticed after my slight hiatus that a chunk of the people I love were MIA and it's sad. 

But then you and Twinky came back and that made me happy... so... NO MORE LEAVING! 

It's all about my wants and needs, obviously.  :lmao:

*EDIT:  Wait.  I read that wrong.

I read that as "Awww... what's up em?" as in "Awww, what's wrong em?"  not "Awwww, how sweet.  How's it going?!  ", which is how I think you meant it.  :lmao: *


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## SabrinaO (Aug 9, 2011)

tirediron said:


> As someone who spends a bit of time on this board, I don't remember any exceptionally snide, sarcastic, or @$$hole remarks.  Could you pls indicate some of those responses you feel to be innapropriate?  Did you report them to the moderating staff?




LOL... read my threads. You will see. 
No I don't report them. :/


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## e.rose (Aug 9, 2011)

SabrinaO said:


> Schwettylens said:
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> > I agree with what you said but same goes with you.  Be more humble and you will go a long way.
> ...



Very defensive, most of the time.

^^^Not trying to be a b*tch, just honestly answering the question. :sillysmi:


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## Robin Usagani (Aug 9, 2011)

You dont have to defend everything.  Just let it go.



SabrinaO said:


> Schwettylens said:
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> > I agree with what you said but same goes with you. Be more humble and you will go a long way.
> ...


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## gsgary (Aug 9, 2011)

SabrinaO said:


> Schwettylens said:
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> > I agree with what you said but same goes with you.  Be more humble and you will go a long way.
> ...



Spoilt Brat comes to mind


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## SabrinaO (Aug 9, 2011)

cameleon said:


> I'd take it as a compliment that ppl 'critique' ur pics... Even if it does seem harsh. It means someone took the time to take a look... Could have easily skipped ur pics and said nothing, but decided to stop and write something anyway...
> 
> Chin up, girl



I LOVE critiques! I rather have someone pick apart my photo than say "it looks good". I just don't like when people are just outright rude to me and others on here just for kicks....


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## tirediron (Aug 9, 2011)

SabrinaO said:


> LOL... read my threads. You will see...


I think I have read most of them...


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## SabrinaO (Aug 9, 2011)

e.rose said:


> SabrinaO said:
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I know I am... I shouldn't have to be though...


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## Overread (Aug 9, 2011)

SabrinaO said:


> tirediron said:
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> > As someone who spends a bit of time on this board, I don't remember any exceptionally snide, sarcastic, or @$$hole remarks.  Could you pls indicate some of those responses you feel to be innapropriate?  Did you report them to the moderating staff?
> ...



As a mod it can often be hard to interpret interactions between members - what might seem like light jokes between friends can be insults between enemies. Using reports to tell us when posts do insult you or when you do feel under attack at least gives us a concrete opinion to work with. 


Also - Gary - ease it up now.


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## kirbym2 (Aug 9, 2011)

As a newbie, I probably haven't earned the right to throw my 2 cents in (but you know I'm going to anyway).... I've reviewed the threads, including the earlier thread about SOOC shots.  I think it's quite clear that many are looking for affirmation rather than differing opinions.  If you are not prepared to hear strong oppositional views (that are backed up with sound reasoning btw), then I wouldn't bother posting.  If you are truly on the fence about something, but only feel that one side is being explored, include that info in your subsequent posts rather than contributing to the "sarcastic, condesending" responses.  Sort of reminds me of a shirt I saw in Vegas..."Everyone's entitled to MY opinion."  I'm just saying not to be shocked when other's opinions aren't in line with your own, and don't take to pushing your "preferred" approach.  You're asking for advice after all.


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## MWC2 (Aug 9, 2011)

SabrinaO said:


> Schwettylens said:
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> > I agree with what you said but same goes with you. Be more humble and you will go a long way.
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I pointed out how you come across as snotty in your SOOC thread last night and I know others have pointed it out in many of your threads in the short amount of time that I have been here.


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## tirediron (Aug 9, 2011)

Overread said:


> SabrinaO said:
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Cheese it, the fuzz!!


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## gsgary (Aug 9, 2011)

This is the first thing i wrote in one of your threads 
"It's the worst idea you have come up with this is something you never  do, do you want to sell photos if so they will have to be perfect sooc"
What is wrong with that ?

This was the second thing i wrote in same thread 
"If you shoot on a white background you are going to have to light it perfectly or it will look muddy and grey"

This was your first reply
"Just please... shut up. NOTHING is perfect SOOC. 
YES you want to shoot the best you possibly can sooc, but there is  always cropping and composition adjusting, dodging and burning,  cloning/cropping out distractions,  blemish fixing, skin smoothing and  TONS of other things (and creative things) to perform that a camera can  not do! OK?? So get over yourself. So if your photos are absolutely  perfect SOOC... why do _you_ have photoshop and/or lightroom??"


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## e.rose (Aug 9, 2011)

SabrinaO said:


> I shouldn't have to be though...



Exactly my point.

Example:

You *came across* (as in... it's how I and several other people interpreted it, whether or not you intended to be), as defensive in your one pin up thread.

Everything was happy, rainbows and butterflies at the end, and I'm glad you got the results you were trying to achieve, however, when I made my first post with legitimate points about posing and camera angle, you accused me of judging the *model* rather than your photographic technique, which was *not*, the case in any way, shape, or form.

I didn't say anything rude or out of line, and your response implied to me that you felt that I did... defensiveness.

In all honesty, I think that's the first thread of yours that I've actually C&C'd in a long while because I gave up on C&Cing your posts a LONG time ago because of your defensiveness to legitimate critique.  But that particular thread interested me, so I stuck through it.  Not usually the case when I read through your threads because it almost always turns into a "You're rude, no YOU'RE rude, no *YOU'RE* rude" battle.

Again... I'm *not* trying to be rude *now* or be a b*tch or anything, but you asked how you came across, so again, I'm just explaining to you how you come across to a lot of us.

I'm not saying there AREN'T a**holes from time to time.

We all know there *are*... but THOSE are the people you **should** be reporting, if that's the case... and just let the mods deal with it to keep the drama to a minimum on your threads and just get the C&C you crave.  :sillysmi:


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## Robin Usagani (Aug 9, 2011)

I admit... When I want to say something harsh, I just wait for Gary to post it for me.


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## SabrinaO (Aug 9, 2011)

Schwettylens said:


> You dont have to defend everything.  Just let it go.
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LOL...I know.
But when it gets to the point of me getting critiqued on the QUESTIONS I ask... its like WOW really? I can't ask questions? I've only been doing photography for 9 months. I'm not an "experienced pro" as most of you claim to be, and don't really know anything about running a biz. But I shouldn't be asking certain questions? I can't ask for business advice? I shouldn't be posting in the beginners forum? Really? :x


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## e.rose (Aug 9, 2011)

gsgary said:


> This is the first thing i wrote in one of your threads
> "It's the worst idea you have come up with this is something you never  do, do you want to sell photos if so they will have to be perfect sooc"
> What is wrong with that ?
> 
> ...


 
I saw that...

Shortly after I read her response above is when I clicked out of the thread thinking to myself "It's going to be another one of *these*, huh?" and I've never checked back.



Schwettylens said:


> I admit... When I want to say something harsh, I just wait for Gary to post it for me.


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## RebeccaAPhotography (Aug 9, 2011)

bigtwinky said:


> Argh... it's things like this that made me leave the forum in the first place many months ago.



I know I only joined a few days ago but one of the first posts I asked was how were people b/c I've been apart of other forums that had some bad mean seeds and I left and I already ask myself in my few days I've been apart of this one that are bad mean seeds apart of every forum? A lot of the threads I've read have some type of "snarky" comment in it.  

I was just looking for a nice place to get to know some folks and learn which I assume is why a lot of people are here. Sad aint it?


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## SabrinaO (Aug 9, 2011)

gsgary said:


> This is the first thing i wrote in one of your threads
> "It's the worst idea you have come up with this is something you never  do, do you want to sell photos if so they will have to be perfect sooc"
> What is wrong with that ?
> 
> ...



Gary...don't play victim here. You know how you are towards me... in almost ALL of my other threads.

EVERYONE is even pointing it out here....


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## tirediron (Aug 9, 2011)

Here's an idea:  Gary, Sabrina... either get a room, or settle this out behind the bike-racks at recess!


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## e.rose (Aug 9, 2011)

RebeccaAPhotography said:


> bigtwinky said:
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> > Argh... it's things like this that made me leave the forum in the first place many months ago.
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The *WORLD *is full of bad seeds and you think there's a place on the interwebs completely free of sarcasm and snark? ::raises eyebrow::

You need a tougher skin if you find yourself continually "having" to leave forums due to "bad seeds".

There are TONS of helpful people here, and if you're already feeling like you've been beaten down, then I'm guess you're just put off by C&C.  I dunno.  I'm just guessing, I don't think I've ever read one of your threads, so I don't know what kinds of things your posting... but that seems to be the trends amongst new people to the forum.  The ones that are put off within a couple of days just got honest advice, answers, and C&C that they just didn't like and therefore labeled "rude". :er:


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## e.rose (Aug 9, 2011)

tirediron said:


> Here's an idea:  Gary, Sabrina... either get a room, or settle this out behind the bike-racks at recess!



:thumbup:


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## tirediron (Aug 9, 2011)

e.rose said:


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^^ That!


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## gsgary (Aug 9, 2011)

Schwettylens said:


> I admit... When I want to say something harsh, I just wait for Gary to post it for me.



I say what everyone else thinks in some threads, not just Sabrina's


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## gsgary (Aug 9, 2011)

SabrinaO said:


> gsgary said:
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> > This is the first thing i wrote in one of your threads
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I couldn't care less, people can slag me off as much as they want but next day i'm still friends with them i don't take it to heart and can laugh it off :hug::


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## ManhattanShutterBug (Aug 9, 2011)

SabrinaO said:


> Schwettylens said:
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> > I agree with what you said but same goes with you.  Be more humble and you will go a long way.
> ...




I am not trying to be a d!ck, but yes very defensive, snotty and like you know it all. You dont take critism very well at all, sometimes I wonder why you ask. Sorry dont post much but your attitude rather annoys me. However I looked at your website your photos are nice, not world class but your on the right track so just chill out and take the advice like a mature adult. Rememeber _*you*_ are the one asking for advice, comments and critique. And also remember again*  you * asked _How do I come across_? I am just being honest. Sometimes (actually more and more with each post) when reading your post I wonder *how old* you are because the way you react and almost pick at comments and turn them into something rude where something rude wasnt implied (ex- gsgary's_ first_ post in your SOOC thread was no reason to act in the manor you did) reminds me of some of these 15 and 16 year old (you know, the ones who think they are the greastest because their 15-16 year old friends say they are) when they hear the truth from photographers who _are actually _really good they cant handle it and throw a poor me pitty party everyone is picking on me when in fact the majority of the time _YOU _are the one who is taking things wrong and turning yuor own thread into a gong show. If you know eveyrthing or you are so good (which is what I assume you think because any advice you get that you disagree with you throw a child like tantrum) why are you posting in the begginers section let alone at all?!:er:


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## RebeccaAPhotography (Aug 9, 2011)

e.rose said:


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You are very right in what you said and in all honesty I had only been apart of one other forum. An Aussie Cattle Dog Forum that a few "snarky" people scared off all the newbies and it was constant fighting so I just left. I've only posted a few threads. I think 3 lol. 2 C/C which doesn't bother me. I know I'm new I know I have a lot of room to grow. As I said in one "I am one determine S O B!I will learn and get better" I can def see there are a lot of people I can learn from.


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## Robin Usagani (Aug 9, 2011)

Kiss and hug.


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## SrBiscuit (Aug 9, 2011)

Schwettylens said:


> Kiss and hug.



tickle balls?


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## cameleon (Aug 9, 2011)

tirediron said:
			
		

> Here's an idea:  Gary, Sabrina... either get a room, or settle this out behind the bike-racks at recess!



Hahahahahaha!!


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## e.rose (Aug 9, 2011)

RebeccaAPhotography said:


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Yeah I'm part of a married life forum I got bored of because of the snark and same "OMG MY PERIOD IS 2 HOURS LATE AM I PREGNANT?!" AND "MY HUSBAND LEFT HIS RING ON THE DRAWER!!! IS HE CHEATING ON ME?!" posts.  

But I took a hiatus from THAT forum, not because of the snark on the FORUM, but because I had full, grown-a$$ women with children stalking me on the internet and harassing me in places *outside* of that forum.

I'd post an entry on my personal blog and one of them from Canada posted "I can think of a 7 letter word to describe this whole blog... boredom".  I make the point to say that she was from Canada because she was the only one of the group of harassers that was FROM Canada... which is how I knew who it was and while she posted anonymously the IP address lead me straight to Nova Scotia, where she's from.  She's not too bright apparently.    I also informed her that I didn't give a *sh*t* she found my blog boring... I wasn't writing it for her... or anyone else for that matter, haha... but she chose to follow me there, and other online "social" places I had connected together to try and harass me.  I'd have more respect for her if she wasn't a p*ssy about it, but she did it anonymously every time, not realizing, again, that she was leaving tell-tale signs as to who it was.   :roll:

There was about 5 or 6 of them that were doing sh*t like that, so I left for a while until it cooled off.

But I've *never* had that happen here.  I don't think I've ever *witnessed* anyone doing anything like that here... so... do not worry.  :sillysmi:

Besides... there's testosterone here... balances out the crazy estrogen-fed snark attacks.  :lmao:


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## RebeccaAPhotography (Aug 9, 2011)

e.rose said:


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OMG e.rose!! You are hysterical I like you already!! I seriously just had tears in my eyes I was laughing so hard from that post! "Theres testosterone here...balances out the crazy estrogen-fed snark attacks." hehehehehehe ROFL!!! Ah the whole thing was funny but god girl you got me there! I would never touch a married forum, maybe b/c i'm not legally married but I can only imagine I dunno now you got me thinking lol! thats crazy she complained about ur blog then followed you to diff online social places....like u said can u say crazy stalker!


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## Ginu (Aug 9, 2011)

I don't understand the need to explain yourself on this... everyone is different and everyone has a different approach of explaining things.

For example - my father is good at pretty much anything and he has very strong opinions about any subject, but he sucks at explaining. Literally he always starts with how the matchstick was invented to get to how CPU chips are made... does he mean anything bad through his explanations? no, its just his way of explaining... to him it makes sense to give the history and bore the person to death, but they understand how and why things are the way they are.

Also dont forget how boring this world would be if everyone was the same in every single aspect


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## g-fi (Aug 9, 2011)

When you go into a bakery, and ask for a free cake, and they give you a free cake, do you complain because it's not your favorite chocolate cake? 

Attn TPF, Spoonfeeding = ur doin it rong


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## e.rose (Aug 9, 2011)

RebeccaAPhotography said:


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I had 3 major internet stalkers from that forum, and one in particular ... not even THAT one... was totally BSC.  She' STILL stuck on me... how I "won't have control over her anymore" :roll:

We used to be "friends", and I said something she disagreed with and then all of a sudden, I was labeled a selfish, manipulative, b*tchy, evil, c**t.  Or SOMETHING to that affect.  That was over 9 months ago and she still writes blog posts about me and how I "WILL NOT HAVE POWER OVER ME ANY MORE!"  I haven't SPOKEN to her for 9 months... but apparently I affected her so much that she's been grappling with me mentally every since then.  :shock:

Crazy.

People.



And that's exactly what caused the craziness... I used to be "internet popular" over there, haha.  I never asked for it... I don't know how the f**k it happened... it got to the point where people were making fan pages for me on FB and I had to ask them to take it down because I thought that was just a *step* over the line and a bit too weird for even *me* to handle.    But I guess my sarcastic sense of humor made *A LOT* of the girls laugh and I was well loved on the wedding forum.  When we "graduated" to the married life sister forum, things started splitting... women started getting pregnant... hormones started flying... I'm SUUUUUUUUUPER BNOTB... so the ones having babies started hating me and no longer appreciated the same humor they thought was hilarious before...   The BSC one I described above, got pregnant and somehow got it in her head that I would hate her because of it?  I dunno...

But half the girls loved me and half of them hated me... and then the stalkers started coming out.

And then I decided that internet pregnant ladies are possessed and crazy and it was best to back out quietly while they weren't looking because they were too busy feeding on someone else.  

So I take shelter in the nice balance of testosterone and estrogen... because straight up estrogen is a death wish.   

Ps.  Thanks for the compliment, haha.  Since I made you laugh, hopefully if you see me comment later, you'll realize that most of the "sarcastic" things I say aren't meant in malice... I just have a twisted sense of humor.


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## Trever1t (Aug 9, 2011)

Attention hungry is how you strike me. Defensive too. But hey, I'm just a bystander here


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## e.rose (Aug 9, 2011)

Trever1t said:


> Attention hungry is how you strike me. Defensive too. But hey, I'm just a bystander here



No.  You commented.  NOW YOU'RE INVOLVED! :greendev:


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## Bitter Jeweler (Aug 9, 2011)

Aww. How cute. A "victim" thread. :roll:


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## Robin Usagani (Aug 9, 2011)

Stop talking about me erose!


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## e.rose (Aug 9, 2011)

Schwettylens said:


> Stop talking about me erose!



STOP STALKING ME THEN!  JEEZ!


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## MattK0138 (Aug 9, 2011)

If I  could get this much attention in a cc. Good bad rude ignorant or otherwise I would be a pro already. Lol


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## c.cloudwalker (Aug 9, 2011)

OK, let me explain... o sabrina.

When every darn thread you start turns into a 4 to 10 pagers within a couple hours, there is a problem with YOU! Even if there is a problem with some others, you are not free of blame. So, if you really want this to change, start by looking at yourself. OK?


Now, tbh, I find gsgary as obnoxious as you seem to. But for a very different reason. You have a problem with what he says and I have a problem with what he doesn't say. I find a lot of his posts useless (and therefore obnoxious) because he doesn't say enough. Yeeeees! I get most of his points because I have enough photo experience but, because I once taught photography, I also get that newbies will not get it.

So, yes, I can find him obnoxious. But then I can be the same at times because some things are so obvious to me that I don't think I have to explain any further. Until, that is, I remember when I was teaching.

So anyways get over it or get a move on. Forums can be rough and not everyone is made to be on them.


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## c.cloudwalker (Aug 9, 2011)

By the way, why don't you spend some time wondering why e.rose's threads turn into love riots and yours turn into hate fests?


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## Overread (Aug 9, 2011)

c.cloudwalker said:


> Now, tbh, I find gsgary as obnoxious as you seem to. But for a very different reason. You have a problem with what he says and I have a problem with what he doesn't say. I find a lot of his posts useless (and therefore obnoxious) because he doesn't say enough. Yeeeees! I get most of his points because I have enough photo experience but, because I once taught photography, I also get that newbies will not get it.



I'll admit that I share this view as well, though I'll say that Gary does often open up to more detail if asked the right way - he just needs to be asked; sadly many newer people don't realise this fact and thus can quickly discount his advice and points. I've seen it before with several members who are capable and helpful, but who have a manner which quickly rubs others up the wrong way when they don't know them that little bit better.


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## e.rose (Aug 9, 2011)

c.cloudwalker said:


> By the way, why don't you spend some time wondering why e.rose's threads turn into love riots...



It says why on the bottom of the forum page.  Cause Schwetty and I are whores.  Duh.


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## c.cloudwalker (Aug 9, 2011)

e.rose said:


> c.cloudwalker said:
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> > By the way, why don't you spend some time wondering why e.rose's threads turn into love riots...
> ...



Maybe but what good are whores who don't show tits when sexting?


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## frisii (Aug 9, 2011)

Overread said:


> if asked the right way



Feel, See, Hear. People use each of those systems to prejudge, encode life experience and make decisions. The words they use expose which system they prefer for each process. Difficulties come from trying to convince someone who uses feelings to make decisions to get what you are 'saying' or 'see' what you mean..they are regardless going to 'feel' differently about it. You need to mirror them, to get through.


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## e.rose (Aug 9, 2011)

c.cloudwalker said:


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I dunno.  Ask TPF.  They're the ones that bestowed that honor upon us.  :lmao:


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## frisii (Aug 9, 2011)

Take a look at Sabrina's OP post. It's all kinesthetic and visual. No auditory references expressed. She isn't 'going to be told', 'don't you see'...you need to 'show' her what you 'know', so she then can be 'satisfied'.


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## The_Traveler (Aug 9, 2011)

frisii said:


> Overread said:
> 
> 
> > if asked the right way
> ...


 


frisii said:


> Take a look at Sabrina's OP post. It's all kinesthetic and visual. No auditory references expressed. She isn't 'going to be told', 'don't you see'...you need to 'show' her what you 'know', so she then can be 'satisfied'.




Well, I haven't got one idea what those meant.
I don't reply to SabrinaO because she acts in my eyes like an incredibly spoiled teenager who wants what she wants when she wants it - and in the right flavor - and I've had my own teen-agers to cope with, I don't need any more.

What also does bother me about these extended threads is that people, either to reduce tension or to attract attention to themselves, derail it with lots of other stuff and so any true and real statements get swallowed up in the crap and Sabrina gets to ignore them.

The best way to deal with someone like Sabrina is just not to feed into the way she behaves, she loves this attention, the longer the thread the more her ego swells.

She's a spoiled child, whatever her age.
Just ignore her and she'll eventually smarten up and either behave or go away.


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## frisii (Aug 9, 2011)

Representational systems (NLP) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## The_Traveler (Aug 9, 2011)

frisii said:


> Representational systems (NLP) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Sorry, I refuse to learn arcane new concepts of inter-personal relationships to deal with someone on the Internet.
Let them learn to deal with me.


----------



## Neiby (Aug 9, 2011)

RebeccaAPhotography said:


> bigtwinky said:
> 
> 
> > Argh... it's things like this that made me leave the forum in the first place many months ago.
> ...



Someone (who was otherwise very helpful!) made a comment to me today that came across as unnecessarily snarky. I suppose it happens on all forums, but I think we all need to be mindful of how our written words may come across. What may sound light-hearted in our own minds may come across as rude to others.


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## Lazy Photographer (Aug 9, 2011)

Not sure if this will help, but what I do when someone swings their little peepee around desperately trying to show everyone how witty and cutting they are is either ignore them or give them a quick thank you and move on. 99% of the critiques I get tend to be helpful in some way, even the odd one that's a bit cranky for my liking. The 1% who are card carrying peepee swingers aren't really commenting for me anyway, but for themselves. No doubt they return to the post time and again to re-read their cracking witticisms.


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## fokker (Aug 9, 2011)

Ugh. If you really HAVE start a whine thread at least have the decency to do it in off-topic or somewhere else that won't distract people from actual threads about, oh I dunno, PHOTOGRAPHY.

After reading this I am once again bored with this forum and will go post useful C&C on a different forum with less attention whores and more people who just wanna learn.


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## e.rose (Aug 9, 2011)

Neiby said:


> RebeccaAPhotography said:
> 
> 
> > bigtwinky said:
> ...



At the same time, we need to be mindful of how we *read* written words.  What may sound harsh and rude in our own minds, may actually appear to be legitimate, helpful to everyone else as intended by the writer who was mis-interpreted....

There are two sides to every coin.  

Forums are tricky because everything is written, therefore no inflection is heard, so words written *and* read can be misinterpreted by *both* sides.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Aug 9, 2011)

This is all this place has become.

 A bïtchfëst. 

Blah blah blah, rude people, blah blah blah.

Some people are stupid, but we aren't allowed to say so, are we?

Would it be fair, as we move forward, that every time someone points out that someone is rude, that we also point out who is stupid?

Sabrina, this has been discussed in several threads over the past week. You are a troll. You are a drama queen. 

Consider yourself fed.


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## bigtwinky (Aug 9, 2011)

SabrinaO said:


> bigtwinky said:
> 
> 
> > Argh... it's things like this that made me leave the forum in the first place many months ago.
> ...


Cant say i do, cant say i dont.  The reason you posted (the drama) gets tiresome. But so do people who take an internet forum so seriously that they feel obligated to make a thread about how they are treated. Its part of the issue.Know that if people are trolling your thread (whether true or not) your reaction fuels them.  Its a forum.  Its TPF.  If you get in a hissy about comments you dont like, either ignore or leave.  Dont fuel the drama.


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## bigtwinky (Aug 9, 2011)

To those complaining about snarky comments and being mindful...its wishful thinking.  Either grow a thicker skin or move on.  Spend more time shooting than being all prissy. SheeshThere are some great people here.  Find them, learn from them, ignore the others


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## mishele (Aug 9, 2011)

http://youtu.be/DksSPZTZES0


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## e.rose (Aug 9, 2011)

mishele said:


> &#x202a;Justin Timberlake - Cry Me A River&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube



Frickin' love that song.


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## mishele (Aug 9, 2011)

If some of the people here spent have as much time learning as they spent bitching, they might actually make something of themselves.


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## Overread (Aug 9, 2011)

*moving to off-topic*


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## Bitter Jeweler (Aug 9, 2011)

Why not just close it, eh?

There's no real value here. Nor willl there be.


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## mishele (Aug 9, 2011)

+1


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## mishele (Aug 9, 2011)

Oh unless BJ is going to start Sexting!!! That would make the thread worth it!!!!


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## Overread (Aug 9, 2011)

mishele said:


> Oh unless BJ is going to start Sexting!!! That would make the thread worth it!!!!



Hey if you're going to do that at least use links this time  as much as I like the "edit post" button its a right pain having to change things to links *esp when you all darn quote each other all the time *


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## mishele (Aug 9, 2011)

Over.......I'm still waiting for your sext shot......


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## Robin Usagani (Aug 9, 2011)

I have a flower shot for you mishele
http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/macro-photography/253049-macro-shot-2-0-a.html


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## Bitter Jeweler (Aug 9, 2011)

Over..........I'm still waiting for your thread closure.......


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## mishele (Aug 9, 2011)

I'm scared to click on that.....LOL


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## manaheim (Aug 9, 2011)

Sabrina...

I have a horrible memory about people, particularly online. I remember only a couple kinds of folks... those who stand out because their contributions are excellent, and those who stand out because their contributions are very poor. Unfortunately, for me, you fall into the latter of these two categories. 

I have to honestly say that I click on almost every thread you post because it's amusing watching the back and forth between you and the other people on the forum. If you ask me, you ask for what you get.

People who ask for help and advice should never:

1> Argue with the advice given.
2> Question the manner in which the advice is given.

You do both of these things with a vengeance.

Sometimes someone giving advice is delivering important messages in not only their words, but in their methods of delivering those words. It is not for you to say that they are giving their critique wrong. You, frankly, are not qualified to make that assertion. 

You say people are being rude or "assholish" or whatever... I say that you are being disrespectful and representing yourself extremely poorly to those who are offering their time and experience to help you. 

Not that I expect you'll change... honestly, even this post just screams "look at me!"... which, obviously everyone is... 6 pages... but guess what? There are a LOT of people on TPF that think you're a train wreck and we all come to gawk.


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## bigtwinky (Aug 10, 2011)

I choo choo choose you!


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## RauschPhotography (Aug 10, 2011)

bigtwinky said:


> I choo choo choose you!


:love:


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## RauschPhotography (Aug 10, 2011)

mishele said:


> Over.......I'm still waiting for your sext shot......



You too?! :lmao:


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## Derrel (Aug 10, 2011)

manaheim said:


> Sabrina...
> 
> I have a horrible memory about people, particularly online. I remember only a couple kinds of folks... those who stand out because their contributions are excellent, and those who stand out because their contributions are very poor. Unfortunately, for me, you fall into the latter of these two categories.
> 
> ...



Wow...it is almost like you are speaking for us as a divine representative, a most Holy seer, an annointed one...we bow down to you, and give thanks for your words of wisdom, oh Great Manaheim! Teller of truth,and purveyor of wisdom, augur of advice,we thank you!!!


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## manaheim (Aug 10, 2011)

Derrel, you are such an ass.  Gotta love ya.


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## kundalini (Aug 10, 2011)

Still moaning, are we???    




SabrinaO said:


> Be more humble? *How do I come across?*


Like you just-don't-get-it..... can't clock on..... aren't willing to take on-board good advice..... really don't want to improve your station in TPF life..... obnoxious..... unyielding..... female canine ..... one with a glass jaw.....  thin skinned..... vicious..... drama queen..... immature..... selfconscious..... short fussed..... easy target..... wanton..... easily manipulated..... 

^^ just a few thoughts.


I'm not all that interested in participating in the TPF community at the moment, but as I've stated a few times previously, you're too much fun.


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## shortpants (Aug 10, 2011)

7 pages of nonsense, shocking


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## Trever1t (Aug 10, 2011)

did I menton Drama Queen?



Damn, I really wish I could get this much personal attention


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## shortpants (Aug 10, 2011)

Trever1t said:


> Damn, I really wish I could get this much personal attention


Things that seem to get attention around here. Whiners, and half naked girls. You need to shoot more boobs.


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## Trever1t (Aug 10, 2011)

shortpants said:


> Trever1t said:
> 
> 
> > Damn, I really wish I could get this much personal attention
> ...




I really DO!!! Any volunteers?


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## Derrel (Aug 10, 2011)

Does a "facepalm" emoticon exist??????????


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## ManhattanShutterBug (Aug 10, 2011)

Derrel said:


> Does a "facepalm" emoticon exist??????????



i wish! it would be so fitting at times!


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## ManhattanShutterBug (Aug 10, 2011)

I have a feeling Sabrina will not be back, well not under that name anyways......


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## MTVision (Aug 10, 2011)

Sabrina,Why are you even complaining? You get so much feedback on your threads. In real life not all feedback will be nice. If you think people are being rude - IGNORE THEM. I've been a member for less than a month and I've seen a million posts just like this - you are asking for peoples opinions. If you don't want to hear their opinions then don't ask. I am actually here to learn and get help but this post (and others like it) detract from that. Instead of helping me and others like me everybody is posting on here. Some people called you snotty and a whiner on here but you know what who cares what they think about you as a person - this forum isn't for that. We are here to learn and some are here to give help and further their learning. I'm not trying to be rude or a b**** but really - look at all the advice you've gotten. Be thankful. I am for the help I've been given so far.


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## MTVision (Aug 10, 2011)

ManhattanShutterBug said:


> I have a feeling Sabrina will not be back, well not under that name anyways......


If she doesn't come back then it's her loss and our gain! Nobody was even rude on any of her previous threads - she just took it that way.


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## bigtwinky (Aug 10, 2011)

Trever1t said:


> shortpants said:
> 
> 
> > .... You need to shoot more boobs.
> ...



Do man boobs count?


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## manaheim (Aug 10, 2011)

shortpants said:


> Trever1t said:
> 
> 
> > Damn, I really wish I could get this much personal attention
> ...



So you're saying we need more boobs and whine?

The Winerack DD drink holders


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## e.rose (Aug 10, 2011)

ManhattanShutterBug said:


> I have a feeling Sabrina will not be back, well not under that name anyways......



Agreed.


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## Trever1t (Aug 10, 2011)

Soblik?


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## Bitter Jeweler (Aug 10, 2011)

ManhattanShutterBug said:


> I have a feeling Sabrina will not be back, well not under that name anyways......



Of course she will be back. She thrives on this. Besides, how else will she learn photogramaphy, and biznisess?


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## e.rose (Aug 10, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> ManhattanShutterBug said:
> 
> 
> > I have a feeling Sabrina will not be back, well not under that name anyways......
> ...



Yeah, but under *this* name?

Although, if she returns under a different name, it's not like *YOU* won't figure it out.  You're the master at sniffing out "alter egos" :lmao:


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## bigtwinky (Aug 10, 2011)

she did log on last night....

not that i'm stalking or nothing, just saying..


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## RauschPhotography (Aug 10, 2011)

bigtwinky said:


> she did log on last night....
> 
> not that i'm stalking or nothing, just saying..



Can I give you the nickname you the Canadian Creeper?


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## e.rose (Aug 10, 2011)

bigtwinky said:


> she did log on last night....
> 
> not that i'm stalking or nothing, just saying..



Yeah... to read *this* mess.

Who is she logged in as *now* though?


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## bigtwinky (Aug 10, 2011)

I am she


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## bigtwinky (Aug 10, 2011)

or she is i


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## manaheim (Aug 10, 2011)

Sabrina is Kaizer Soze.


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## Trever1t (Aug 10, 2011)

manaheim said:


> Sabrina is Kaizer Soze.


  I loved that movie, a real twister!


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## PhotoFinish (Aug 11, 2011)

I think I am going to have to watch the Usual suspects tonight now you have reminded me of it. Thanks...


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## bazooka (Aug 11, 2011)

I don't know what you guys are talking about, but it's threads like this that keep me coming back to TPF!


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## audiobomber (Aug 11, 2011)

Derrel said:


> Does a "facepalm" emoticon exist??????????


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## Gaerek (Aug 12, 2011)

SabrinaO said:


> I don't know why I feel the need to explain myself, but its just bothering me that many of you on here think or assume I dont appreciate advice, or can take constructive criticism. That is not true at all. I wouldn't grow as a photographer if I didn't take advice. I just don't appreciate the APPROACH most of you give it to...to myself, and to others on here.  I don't know what it is about this forum, but it seems like most of you are in some kind of contest on who can give the most sarcastic, condesending, "asshole" response to someone's question or CC. I dont know why many of you do this. Maybe you do it to get some laughs, "likes" or maybe you need to feel better about yourselves, I don't know. Whatever it is.. its just not cool. _You _know what you are doing and why you do it. I know im valid in this argument because I get about 2-3 pms every time I log on here from someone either scared to stand up, or someone applauding me for standing up against the people who aren't *_really* _here to help.(if you know what I mean) I even get pms from people apologizing for their "asshole" behavior...............
> 
> Anyways you can give _constructive _critism without being purposely and intentionally destructive and rude. Treat those how you wanna be treated. No you shouldnt sugar coat ANYTHING and you should tell it like it is but just remember.. we are all humans behind that screen name. Nobody wants to get nasty, snide, sarcastic remarks about their efforts. You can give a constructive response without doing that. I mean how do you expect someone to look past that? I consider getting good advice and constructive critiques about my flaws like getting a piece of cake. But if you give someone a piece of cake and spit in it first, don't expect someone to eat it or look past you spitting in it.



I didn't read the whole thread. I just happened to find it this morning. But I need to comment. You can choose to listen to what I say, or get emotional and defensive. That's your choice. Anyway, here it goes.

Almost everytime I've seen someone give good, honest, critique, you would get emotional and defensive. You'd give excuses. You'd say someone is rude, when they were just trying to help. Are there people (me included) who are rude to you now? Absolutely. Why is that? It's because of your attitude. I still see it from you. Someone gives you critique, and you take it as if someone just slapped you across the face. When I call you out, your response was "I know what the hell I'm doing." But almost every post you make, makes it absolutely clear that this is not the case. The gold reflector issue, for example. You were a sarcastic asshole to gary when he tried to tell you that you shouldn't use a gold reflector in the shade. And without asking why you shouldn't use a gold reflector in the shade, you went on the attack and got self righteous about it. He wasn't rude in his post until after you made the rude comment. Here's the exact quote from that thread:



SabrinaO said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> > SabrinaO said:
> ...



You made the smart ass, sarcastic comment about being a fashion pro, and he responded in kind. Then you added that HE was wrong...which is ironic, because you and your < a year of experience were wrong compared to the person who has decades(?) of experience. And you wonder why people react to you the way they do? Gary was actually trying to help you, and you got defensive and emotional (no surprise there) then you accuse him of being rude? Wow. Sabrina, this is very typical of you. This is one example of MANY. I showed this one because it's recent. These are the facts, and no amount of you saying different will EVER change it.

Let me talk to you honestly for a minute. I think you have a great amount of natural talent. More so than me. I had to work HARD to make shots like yours back when I was first starting. Art doesn't come natural to me. My mind works like an engineer, not an artist. However, I've worked hard, and learned, and have a great deal of knowledge. The problem is, you don't have the experience or know how to make exceptional photographs. Let's take Bitter as an example. He has great natural talent. When he first got here, he didn't have much knowledge. But by listening to people, both rude and not, he got better and better. In just a few years, he's far surpassed my level of skill. You have that potential, you just need to have a better attitude.

Am I rude and sarcastic sometimes, yep, you got me. Am I a bit self-righteous, as you've been known to call me lately. Yeah, a bit. But I can back up what I say with experience. You can take that self-righteousness, and ignore it because you don't like the delivery. Or, you can take it, and learn from it, and get better. The choice is yours.

By the way, to say that people like me, Bitter, gary, and KMH aren't here to help is totally, and completely asinine. I have absolutely no reason to be here BUT to help. Do I get some entertainment watching the drama? Sure, but I have much better forms of entertainment that I'd rather be doing. The reason I am here is to help if I am able to help. If people would listen to Bitter, they would know that the condecending attitude that they think he has is him trying to help people find the answer on their own, because you will learn it and retain it better that way. I feel a lot the same way, and I try to help when I can. KMH is one of the most knowledgable people here, and not listening to what he has to say is just plain stupid. Gary is a bit of a sarcastic ass, but he really does give great advice, if you're willing to look past the sarcasm. If you don't like the way people give you advice, that's perfectly fine. You're free to go if you'd like. There are other forums that might try to coddle you and make you feel good, but they might not make you a better photographer. If you wish to get better and keep posting here, that's fine too. Just remember that the sarcasm will be there. Take it like an adult, and learn from those that know what they're talking about. Fair enough?


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## Gaerek (Aug 12, 2011)

SabrinaO said:


> Schwettylens said:
> 
> 
> > You dont have to defend everything.  Just let it go.
> ...



Ok, couldn't let this go, because honestly, this is as close as you've come to admiting the problem I've seen so far. Let me list the facts:

- You've been doing photography for only 9 months
- You have no idea how to run a business
- You actually have a photography business

Wow. Why are you actually in business right now? You aren't giving your clients what they paid for, whether they believe you are or not. And you don't know how to run a business, so how do you expect to make money? You know, 3 out of 5 businesses fail in the first 3 years. And that's the statistics for people who actually have a pretty good idea of what they're doing. You can call be an asshole for being honest here, but these are just facts. If I were in your shoes, I would want more knowledge with running a business, and more experience in photography before even thinking about selling photos for money...


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## e.rose (Aug 12, 2011)

bigtwinky said:


> she did log on last night....
> 
> not that i'm stalking or nothing, just saying..



She logged on yesterday morning too... I wonder if she'll come back to say anything in this thread or if she'll just wait until it dies to post again.


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## bigtwinky (Aug 12, 2011)

should just ignore people who constantly seek drama.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Aug 12, 2011)




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## mc1979 (Aug 12, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


>




:lmao:


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## kundalini (Aug 12, 2011)

e.rose said:


> ... I wonder if she'll come back to say anything in this thread or if she'll just wait until it dies to post again.


Not likely.  She quickly runs out of gas when logic and reason are put forth with answers to SIMPLE questions.  Notice how quick the fangs came out in my initial response (post #5, retort on #7) in the linked thread and then absolutely nothing on a conscientious response (post #9).  It doesn't surprise me though..... there was no room for argument on her side.

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...0835-quick-question-about-lighting-setup.html 

There are many examples from myself and others.  Even when someone tries in earnest to show direction, all that is received is venom.  Her cry for validation falls on deaf ears.  

Plus, she is an easy mark.


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## GeorgieGirl (Aug 12, 2011)

I'm logging in to respond. And not because this is the typical trainwreck and bully session. Sabrina, IMHO you seem to ask for conflict. Why you ask? Because you strut your photos and ask for C&C, and once you get one negative (and it only has to be less than glowing) you start sniper fire with anyone who suggests you alter your approach. You alienate anyone who wants to offer you solid advise and then you turn the dialog into dirty courtyard dodgeball. 

I think you should try to approach phography with as much self-study as any of the rest us and stop the whining when you are accused of falling short of that implied standard for serious shooters.

People are here to help, but G-d helps those who help themselves. I've liked some of your work but none of your drama. 

Go in peace...if you put as much effort into your work as you do complaining about others comments on it, or why they don't think its the cat's meow, I think you will improve exponentially. 

Logging off now....


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## The_Traveler (Aug 12, 2011)

Ok, I know this is a low blow but it just seemed so , oh I don't know, right on the button.


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## mjhoward (Aug 12, 2011)

kundalini said:


> There are many examples from myself and others.  Even when someone tries in earnest to show direction, all that is received is venom.  Her cry for validation falls on deaf ears.
> 
> Plus, she is an easy mark.



Another prime example: http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...um-photo-gallery/252896-dappled-sunlight.html

as usual looking for c&c (as long as it's praise) ... someone states that using the wrong colored reflector has caused a WB nightmare and the admittedly 'non-pro' blatantly blasts someone whom is clearly far more experienced telling them they were wrong along with everyone else lol


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## GeorgieGirl (Aug 12, 2011)

These last two posts are a PRIME example of why people dont bother here on this site....


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## e.rose (Aug 12, 2011)

The_Traveler said:


> Ok, I know this is a low blow but it just seemed so , oh I don't know, right on the button.



To be fair... I have like... 3 "friends" too.

My old account used to have a lot more... but this one only has like 3 or 4.  But I *know* I'm liked by more people than that.  

Kun has even referred to me as "the little sister"... and I"m not friends with *him*, haha.

That friend's feature is kind useless... I don't even know what it DOES.  Does ANYONE know what its purpose is?


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## unpopular (Aug 12, 2011)

Sabrina - I am not sure what prompted this, but let me warn you - you'll never, ever win this one. Trust me. The only thing more arrogant than the photographer is the critic; dare not question their invaluable input! Don't even think for a moment you can have any meaningful discussion about your work.


And the rest of you, seriously, look at yourselves. Spice girls??!!


----------



## jake337 (Aug 12, 2011)

I'm working so I have not had time to read the whole thread but.....
















Is it that difficult?????


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## MTVision (Aug 12, 2011)

The_Traveler said:


> Ok, I know this is a low blow but it just seemed so , oh I don't know, right on the button.


That is a low blow! I don't have any "friends" on here either!


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## The_Traveler (Aug 12, 2011)

unpopular said:


> Sabrina - I am not sure what prompted this, but let me warn you - you'll never, ever win this one. Trust me. The only thing more arrogant than the photographer is the critic; dare not question their invaluable input! Don't even think for a moment you can have any meaningful discussion about your work.
> 
> 
> And the rest of you, seriously, look at yourselves. Spice girls??!!



That is a particularly fulsome load of pompous crap.
There is a fairly large group of pretty knowledgeable people who spend lots of time answering questions and helping people trying to learn - and all they expect in return in just an acknowledgement that they actually put out some effort.  Not agreement that its right, not a bowing of the head, just a goddam thank you.

And when some unfortunately ignorant young girl who seems particularly unaware that she is claiming to know everything while simultaneously asking the damned most basic questions - and expecting answers couched exactly how she wants them , well the pent up frustration and anger of dealing with wave after wave of these fools just spilled over.

Maybe she doesn't deserve the amount of opprobium she received but she deserved plenty.

And, if the mods did their damn job, made some joint decision on the limits of behavior and worked at it, this place would be a lot better for it.
And, if they are too tired or too burnt out, then they should quit and let more willing mods take their place.

But what we have is what you see.
People who've been here for a long time, just don't post any more, don't give good responses so the level of images is circling the drain and teh level of discussion is the same.

So, unpopular, you can take your snotty remark and wrap it in your 65 posts and stuff it.


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## unpopular (Aug 12, 2011)

Everyone on page nine will be receiving a friend invite from me. I'd appreciate it if you would all confirm, being that it's so gosh darn important!


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## The_Traveler (Aug 12, 2011)

The_Traveler said:


> unpopular said:
> 
> 
> > So, unpopular, you can take your snotty remark and wrap it in your 65 posts and stuff it.
> ...


----------



## Overread (Aug 12, 2011)

Thread locked pending moderation

A reminder also that personal attacks on members are not tolerated


----------

