# off camera flash- equipment list



## paigew (Sep 6, 2013)

I'm trying to get together equipment for off camera flash. So I have the 430ex and the 5d markiii. Does if I buy everything on the list will I be good to go...or at least have a decent starting kit?

hot shoe mount
softbox thing
trigger
gels
light stand - what is a good one?


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## Designer (Sep 6, 2013)

LiteDome | Strobe SoftBoxes | Products | Photoflex


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## Trever1t (Sep 6, 2013)

I like Westcott and Photoflex brand stands for the price they are nice. I'd recommend an umbrella before softbox (price and ease of use) as the umbrella is much easier to use and more forgiving. You don't need a "hotshoe" mount, you need an umbrella bracket (again from one of those 2 brands) and a radio trigger like PocketWizard, RadioPopper or the cheaper, Cowboy studio types. Gels are cool but not immediately necessary.


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## paigew (Sep 6, 2013)

Trever1t said:


> I like Westcott and Photoflex brand stands for the price they are nice. I'd recommend an umbrella before softbox (price and ease of use) as the umbrella is much easier to use and more forgiving. You don't need a "hotshoe" mount, you need an umbrella bracket (again from one of those 2 brands) and a radio trigger like PocketWizard, RadioPopper or the cheaper, Cowboy studio types. Gels are cool but not immediately necessary.



okay I was told the softbox is easiest to use, set up, and control/feather light (without spill). Not true?

and you saying I don't need a hot shoe if I get an umbrella? Because I am taking a course and this stuff was on the equipment list...


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## tirediron (Sep 6, 2013)

There are lots of good lighting stands; pretty much any good equipment name one will be okay; I have mostly Manfrottos, with a few Camerons, some Speedotrons, and the odd no-name.  As for your list.  I would bin the umbrella bracket in favour of this one.  Yes, it's 3x the price, but it's 10x the quality.  I've had a couple of those cheap, plastic brackets - they don't last long, they don't support a lot of weight, sag under load, and are generally a truly craptastic piece of kit.  Everything else looks like a good starter kit.


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## tirediron (Sep 6, 2013)

paigew said:


> Trever1t said:
> 
> 
> > I like Westcott and Photoflex brand stands for the price they are nice. I'd recommend an umbrella before softbox (price and ease of use) as the umbrella is much easier to use and more forgiving. You don't need a "hotshoe" mount, you need an umbrella bracket (again from one of those 2 brands) and a radio trigger like PocketWizard, RadioPopper or the cheaper, Cowboy studio types. Gels are cool but not immediately necessary.
> ...


Soft-boxes definitely allow you to control spill more effectively, but as for which is better, for the most part it's personal preference.  I have the Lastolite version of that SB in a larger size and it's great.  Nice light, good control...  umbrellas are cheaper however.


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## Trever1t (Sep 6, 2013)

TO control light yes but the trade off there is that you won't have that wrap around the umbrella offers so placement is more particular with a softbox. If I only had 1 modifier it would be an umbrella. As it is I have a number of umbrellas beauty dishes and softboxes to choose from for a given set. Another consideration is size and softboxes with internal baffles are going to eat power... about 2 stops. An umbrella uses less and if you buy a convertable can be used to bounce (less spill) or shoot through (more wrap)


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## paigew (Sep 6, 2013)

tirediron said:


> paigew said:
> 
> 
> > Trever1t said:
> ...



thanks, I don't mind paying for something that will last a long time. hmmm...choices choices. Would you say umbrella vs softbox is better for indoor vs outdoor?


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## paigew (Sep 6, 2013)

Trever1t said:


> TO control light yes but the trade off there is that you won't have that wrap around the umbrella offers so placement is more particular with a softbox. If I only had 1 modifier it would be an umbrella. As it is I have a number of umbrellas beauty dishes and softboxes to choose from for a given set. Another consideration is size and softboxes with internal baffles are going to eat power... about 2 stops. An umbrella uses less and if you buy a convertable can be used to bounce (less spill) or shoot through (more wrap)



ahhh well wrapping the light is a HUGE must for me. can someone post a photo of the different results. umbrella vs softbox? I want natural looking light


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## Trever1t (Sep 6, 2013)

paigew said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> > paigew said:
> ...



Because the softbox gives a more directional light it is better for me indoors than an umbrella where my walls are white and I have issues with bounce all over the room. I have been using a beauty dish outdoors lately with happy results. The umbrella is a big wind catcher...

I use umbrellas for "step 'n repeat' type jobs where I want full coverage, a nice flat light is desirable.


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## tirediron (Sep 6, 2013)

Trever makes an excellent point about the wrapping!  Given the price of a convertible brolly, why not just reach a little deeper under the couch cushions and add one to the list?


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## paigew (Sep 6, 2013)

tirediron said:


> Trever makes an excellent point about the wrapping!  Given the price of a convertible brolly, why not just reach a little deeper under the couch cushions and add one to the list?



brolly instead of softbox and umbrella? I don't really know what a brolly is. It looks just like an umbrella....and its only like 30$?


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## Trever1t (Sep 6, 2013)

paigew said:


> Trever1t said:
> 
> 
> > TO control light yes but the trade off there is that you won't have that wrap around the umbrella offers so placement is more particular with a softbox. If I only had 1 modifier it would be an umbrella. As it is I have a number of umbrellas beauty dishes and softboxes to choose from for a given set. Another consideration is size and softboxes with internal baffles are going to eat power... about 2 stops. An umbrella uses less and if you buy a convertable can be used to bounce (less spill) or shoot through (more wrap)
> ...



Both give good results and natural light (if you buy a quality product with neutral white fabrics). 

Both can be used to make professional quality images equally. 

Softbox allows more control of shadows...and shadows are ART

Umbrella gives nice wide coverage. With a speedlight you could easily put your flash on it's lowest setting, place the umbrella very close to subject and have very noticeable falloff. 

My opinion, if only one mod, be it umbrella. If you have no budget buy both or 2 of both. 

As said I have a number of softboxes, umbrellas, beauty dishes...I need strip boxes, octobox, etc...it never ends. You cannot have too much gear, only a lack of room to put it all!


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## kundalini (Sep 6, 2013)

I too can recommend the Lastolite of EZY boxes.  Well constructed, easy to setup / break down and fold in on themselves to 1/3 original size.  Every Lastolite piece of gear I have is the same.... good quality.

For light stands meant for shooting people, I wouldn't go less than 8' tall, but prefer 10' and NO LESS than medium-duty rated.  All my stands for monolights are heavy-duty rated.  This also allows you to add a boom are in the future without too much fret.  Don't forget to figure in some counter-weights, regardless of whichever modifier you choose.


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## Trever1t (Sep 6, 2013)

paigew said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> > Trever makes an excellent point about the wrapping!  Given the price of a convertible brolly, why not just reach a little deeper under the couch cushions and add one to the list?
> ...



A brolly (British term) is an umbrella with a baffle.the light bounces off the inside of the umbrella and back through the diffusion panel. It's a favorite by many. I'd opt for a better quality unit, again, materials do make a difference. Westcott and Photoflex being the more affordable yet decent brands...there are others, of course.


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## tirediron (Sep 6, 2013)

Actually, I just meant plain old, vanilla-flavoured 'umbrella' - I was just too lazy to type it out.  Just add this to your list, and you have the best of all worlds.


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## paigew (Sep 6, 2013)

Trever1t said:


> Softbox allows more control of shadows...and shadows are ART
> 
> Umbrella gives nice wide coverage. With a speedlight you could easily put your flash on it's lowest setting, place the umbrella very close to subject and have very noticeable falloff.



Okay awesome. Well I will probably own more than this in the future, but I can't really buy everything at once LOL. So I do want a lot of shadows in my work, but I want those shadows to be very soft, similar to window light. I can do that with softbox? This is going to be my "just in case I need it" light set up. I want the light to be similar to what I normally produce when I work with natural/window light.


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## Designer (Sep 6, 2013)

paigew said:


> Trever1t said:
> 
> 
> > Softbox allows more control of shadows...and shadows are ART
> ...



Since an umbrella can "spill" light, and since you want some ambient light anyway, you probably could do with an umbrella.  They're less expensive, and easy to set up, but some people don't want the light spill.  Get a big umbrella, preferably one with a black fabric cover that can be fitted to the back side if you need to control light spill.  So it could work as a "shoot-through", or a reflector, depending on which way the light is pointed.


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## paigew (Sep 6, 2013)

Nice soft light 



N - maternity-1.jpg by paige_w, on Flickr


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## pixmedic (Sep 6, 2013)

I dont know if  you use TTL or HSS much, but i would budget just a little more on the triggers and get the newer YN622c triggers. they will do TTL and HSS. 
I just got 2 pairs for Nikon and they work GREAT!


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## tirediron (Sep 6, 2013)

The secret to replicating window light is BIG modifiers; I use eithe a 50" Apollo box or a 60" brolly-box when I want that sort of look.  This is the sort of look you'll get from your 28" SB.


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## Derrel (Sep 6, 2013)

Lastolite Umbrella Box and the Photek Softlighter II are two of the very best umbrella boxes.

I think a person ought to have umbrellas, umbrella boxes, and soft boxes.

The Lastolite Umbrella Box and the Photek Softlighter II both give lovely, awesome light. Steve Kaeser Enterprises also sells some Chinese-made knock-offs at less than half price.

One of the big differences between say a Lastolite Umbrella Box and a cheap knock-off is this: the Lastolite box has a 100% opaque SOLID black backing, that prevents ANY light from penetrating through the backing, so you can set them up close to the camera axis and not worry about stray light coming through the backing; this is much more of an issue with more-powerful flash units. Annie Liebovitz for one big name, uses the Photek Softlighters extensively. And she can afford *WHATEVER* she wants. That speaks volumes right there.


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## paigew (Sep 15, 2013)

Thanks for all your advice guys. I have been thinking about all this for a few days and I think I have my final list together. Can someone please check it over for me?

I own : 430exii

So I am pretty sure I need hotshoe to pc adabpter
is there a cord I need for this too??
trigger + reciever
light stand (10 ft)
umbrella mount (it says adapter...is that the right thing?) and I'm pretty sure I need this bracket shoe mount too right?

okay the last thing...the modifier (and the thing causing me the most headache)
So I am getting this 50 inch softbox
but my course instructor said she really loves these umbrellas
dh might freak out if I get both . What would you do? What do you think about getting the softbox and a cheap umbrella. Will I end up not using the cheapy thing?


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## paigew (Sep 15, 2013)

actually  I think I want to go smaller with the umbrella, so if I am cramped for space I have something to use...maybe a 36 inch photek softlighter umbrella?


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## KmH (Sep 15, 2013)

Light modifier size determines how harsh or soft light is and how diffuse shadow edges are or aren't.

The bigger modifiers are, the softer the light and the more diffuse shadow edges are.

Assuming all are of the same quality/brand:
Umbrellas give you the biggest size for the buck. Convertible umbrellas cost a tiny bit more, but can be used to bounce light or to shoot through.
Shooting through an umbrella lets you place it closer to the subject, which maximizes it's apparent size and  minimizes light spill.

Brollys, being an umbrella with a diffusion panel, are the next most economical relative to modifier size. Because the diffusion panel is effectively the light source, it too can be placed close to your subject like a shoot-through umbrella can. The brolly will have an apparently large size than the same size shoot through umbrella because the diffusion panel is flat.
Brollys have less spill light than shoot-through umbrellas do.

Softboxes are the most expensive relative to the modifier size they deliver.
The cost of softboxes goes up with size much faster than the cost of comparably sized umbrellas or brollys.
Softboxes give the most precise light control.
Good softboxes usually have an internal diffusion panel in addition to the front diffusion panel.
Consequently, softboxes tens d to 'eat' more light then brollys or umbrellas do.

Your 430EX II is a middle grade speedlite as far as output power is concerned.

The type of shot also drives modifier size. 
A 36" umbrella will work for a head shot, but is to small for a full body shot - unless you move the umbrella well away from your subject making it's apparent size smaller, and accept that you'll need more light power, have harsher light, have less diffuse shadow edges, and have more spill light to contend with.


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