# Looking for tips



## ifi (Jun 19, 2010)

Hi, I am to take some indoor Flowers Arrangements photographs. Looking for tips on exposure, lighting, and recommendation on lens.

I am thinking of using my Sigma 50mm 1.4 and Speedlight with built-in diffuser.

Thanks


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## KmH (Jun 19, 2010)

ifi said:


> Hi, I am to take some indoor Flowers Arrangements photographs. Looking for tips on exposure, lighting, and recommendation on lens.
> 
> I am thinking of using my Sigma 50mm 1.4 and Speedlight with built-in diffuser.
> 
> Thanks


That's not a lot of information.

Use spot metering to set the exposure, using the speedlight on the camera will make the lighting quite flat and there will be hard shadows. The diffuser will just scatter light all over making it harder to control and eating light power.

Knowing the camera and speedlight model you will be iusing would help to make other lighting recommendations, since getting the speedlight off the camera would be very useful.

For example many Nikon cameras and speedlights have a built-in, off camera speedlight triggering system called CLS.


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## ifi (Jun 19, 2010)

KmH said:


> That's not a lot of information.
> 
> Use spot metering to set the exposure, using the speedlight on the camera will make the lighting quite flat and there will be hard shadows. The diffuser will just scatter light all over making it harder to control and eating light power.
> 
> ...



Thank you for the response.

I will be using a Canon 7d and Canon 580EX II. 7d has a built-in system to trigger off-camera speedlight. I have a second speedlight that can be used as well if required.

I am open to rent/purchase anything that might help.

PS: I am not getting paid for this


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## ifi (Jun 19, 2010)

Seems like no one wants to share their techniques


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## markomni (Jun 19, 2010)

Have you considered using natural daylight?  you don't need much with a longer exposure and tripod worse case scenario.  Color correct it and you're all set.  

If you're looking to use the flash, I would bounce it off a nearby wall to soften it up.  It likely won't look good aimed straight at the flowers, IMO.  I have used that flash and it's effective when used correctly.  

Just experiment.


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## ifi (Jun 19, 2010)

markomni said:


> Have you considered using natural daylight?  you don't need much with a longer exposure and tripod worse case scenario.  Color correct it and you're all set.
> 
> If you're looking to use the flash, I would bounce it off a nearby wall to soften it up.  It likely won't look good aimed straight at the flowers, IMO.  I have used that flash and it's effective when used correctly.
> 
> Just experiment.



Thank you for the response. You are right, all the tools including flash are effective when used right 

It's an indoor shoot, the reason I am planning to use 50mm 1.4 is so that I can easily use ambient light. I have no choice but to experiment. I might take some shots using wide angle as well.


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## ifi (Jun 19, 2010)

Nice but very basic tutorial 

How to Take Beautiful Pictures of Flowers and Floral Arrangements - watch free tutorial at LearnMyShot.com


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## kkamin (Jun 22, 2010)

You should link to some images you like and we can all figure out the lighting used.  : )


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## ifi (Jun 22, 2010)

kkamin said:


> You should link to some images you like and we can all figure out the lighting used.  : )


Seems like a good idea. I hope it is okay to link other's images.

http://www.uniqueoccassionz.com/images/wedding_show_fu7s.jpg
http://www.etownfloristonline.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/HW0_49111.jpg
http://secretgardenflowershop.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/wedding-bouquets.png
http://www.wedding-flowers-and-reception-ideas.com/images/best-wedding-flowers04.jpg
http://www.rs2guru.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/white-bridal-bouquets.gif
http://ph.88dbmedia2.jobsdb.com/DB88UploadFiles/2008/02/14/7A0B450D-0717-4922-9D39-A149737A6EEC.jpg


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## kkamin (Jun 22, 2010)

I don't think you are allowed to embed the images in your posting unless you have permission from the copyright holder.  You should just pick a few you really like and just copy and paste the links in your message.

But I think most of the images you have selected are snap shots of flowers and not really very refined images (there are a few exceptions).  The video link you posted is far more interesting than any of the reference images imo.


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## ifi (Jun 22, 2010)

Yeah, you are right, this is all I could find on-line that was not too much staged.


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## gsgary (Jun 23, 2010)

ifi said:


> kkamin said:
> 
> 
> > You should link to some images you like and we can all figure out the lighting used.  : )
> ...



They are all crap so you should have no problem getting the same or better results


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## ifi (Jun 23, 2010)

gsgary said:


> They are all crap so you should have no problem getting the same or better results


Thanks for the response 

I agree, some of them are. 

What would be some better/non-crap images to follow?


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## kkamin (Jun 23, 2010)

google flower photography like this

Lighting is obviously a foundational and critical aspect of flower photography and any photography. If you don't have the book already I would recommend [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Light-Science-Introduction-Photographic-Lighting/dp/0240808193/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1277311471&sr=8-1"]Light, Science and Magic[/ame]. Imo and many others, this is the bible of lighting principals. Once you understand how light really works and reacts, you can do whatever you want with it.  

That being said, when I googled 'flower photography', what struck me as of utmost importance is the treatment of the flowers. Flowers come in all shapes, sizes and colors. One type of framing, depth of field, angle, exposure, and background on one type of flower might look great, but on another might look like total a$$.  I know this is true on everything, but it really stands out as an issue with flowers for me.  They are strange shaped objects and differ dramatically in their formal qualities.  For instance, with really intricate busy looking flowers, you might want a very shallow depth of field and to focus on only one flower in the bunch--if you were to focus on the entire bouquet it would be too busy and distracting looking.  Something like a lily, I might try to really try to exploit its streamline bottom bulb shape by lighting is as dimensionally as possible.  Flowers with a sun burst like shape and rounded petals, I might play up the uniform and almost graphic shape by shooting it straight on.  Flowers are beautiful objects, but I think they need careful work in how to best exploit their unique qualities.

Good luck!


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## ifi (Jun 23, 2010)

kkamin said:


> google flower photography like this
> 
> Lighting is obviously a foundational and critical aspect of flower photography and any photography. If you don't have the book already I would recommend Light, Science and Magic. Imo and many others, this is the bible of lighting principals. Once you understand how light really works and reacts, you can do whatever you want with it.
> 
> ...



I searched/googled "floral arrangements" and "floral arrangements for wedding" to find the above images.

Thanks for the tips :thumbsup:


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## jendra (Jun 24, 2010)

Indoor flower photographing is really difficult because lighting is the essential for flower photography.Not only      is the camera's flash too bright at such a close distance, but it is      probably in the wrong position to actually light up the flowers properly.       We prefer daylight balanced compact fluorescent bulbs for lighting.       Not only do they provide nice natural colored light, but they produce very      little heat so they can be left on for long photo sessions without over      heating the flowers, the camera or the photographer. Compact fluorescent      bulbs fit in standard light fixtures, so a simple adjustable pair of      clamp-on lamps fitted with a daylight balanced compact fluorescent bulb      makes an acceptable (and very low cost)      light source for flower photography.


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## pmsnel (Jun 24, 2010)

My setup for good indoor photo's of flowers:
Tripod
Camera with automatic stabilizer turned of
Remote
Flowers
Window facing north (at least not letting direct sunlight in) preferably very dirty!
Or a white shower curtain in front of window facing other than north.
Neutral background (neutral coloured wall, showercurtain, piece of paper, all depending on the size of your flower arrangement)

And those are just the ideas of taking nice flower pictures of a NOOB
Good luck!


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## pbelarge (Jun 24, 2010)

gsgary said:


> ifi said:
> 
> 
> > kkamin said:
> ...


 

I am glad I am not the only one who feels this way about those links.:thumbup:


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## ifi (Jun 24, 2010)

Thank you!


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## kkamin (Jun 24, 2010)

I need to kindly disagree with this.



jendra said:


> Indoor flower photographing is really difficult because lighting is the essential for flower photography.Not only      is the camera's flash too bright at such a close distance, but it is      probably in the wrong position to actually light up the flowers properly.


 
The camera's flash is never too bright if you can adjust f/stop, shutter speed and ISO to bring the image to a proper exposure.  (think about a macro ring flash where the flash is on the barrel of the lens and actually closer than if mounted on the hotshoe)  I also doubt they will be using a bare, unmodified compact flash to light.  

The OP is also probably going to move the flashes off camera since they mentioned their camera can trigger the flashes remotely.  



jendra said:


> We prefer daylight balanced compact fluorescent bulbs  for lighting.       Not only do they provide nice natural colored light,  but they produce very      little heat so they can be left on for long  photo sessions without over      heating the flowers, the camera or the  photographer. Compact fluorescent      bulbs fit in standard light  fixtures, so a simple adjustable pair of      clamp-on lamps fitted with  a daylight balanced compact fluorescent bulb      makes an acceptable  (and very low cost)      light source for flower photography.



The color temperature of the daylight fluorescent bulbs and a compact flash should be pretty much the same.  There is no such thing as a 'natural' colored light--it matters if you are trying to match the ambient light in a daylight light studio, but otherwise you perform a white balance in camera and in post to neutralize color casts.

IMO, the hurdle with your DIY approach is that you need to rig modifiers to the clamp lights somehow that can be tricky.  Just pointing a clamp light with a fluorescent bulb doesn't produce anything special photographically other than fairly hard light.  The bulbs tend to stick out from the reflector and it needs cinefoil or tin foil to reduce spill and possible lens flare.  

I do like your idea on this level.  If the OP is new to lighting, it can be very instructive to see what the light is doing while it is being adjusted.  If they were in a pitch black room and were using continuous lights of some sort, that experience far exceeds firing off camera flashes and constantly chimping.


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## ifi (Jun 24, 2010)

I took some photos of that place using my BlackBerry (wish I had my camera with me).

#1 is the entry hall with the bar, the center piece plant will be replaced with a large sized floral arrangement. Other tables and bar will have smaller floral arrangements and candles.

#2 will have flowers on the tables as well.

#3 is the ballroom, it will have flowers and candles on all tables. Plus the windows on both sides will have more flower arrangements as well.

1:






2:





3:


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## kkamin (Jun 24, 2010)

It seems like you might be taking photos of rooms with flowers in them, rather than images of flowers.  I don't know how close you are going to get to the flowers, but I would get as close as possible.  The rooms don't look particularily supportive of acting as flower backgrounds.  A famous photographer once said, "If you pictures are boring get closer."  I'm not saying your pictures will be boring, but I see that as a real danger.  If you shoot really wide and include a lot of the room, much of the flowers detail and beauty will be lost; it won't translate to a photo very well.  It'll be like watching a play on TV where the camera is wide the entire time; it is so sterile in feeling and 95% of the power of the play is lost.  That's why cinema is so powerful.  It can be shown on the same TV, but with the language of close-ups, lighting, depth of field, processing, effects, etc. it can pull you in.

I think what separates a snap shot from a photograph is crossing that threshold from simply pointing at something and hitting the shutter to really thinking about what they are trying to capture and how do they want the viewer to feel.  If you look at great photos, you can get a real sense of perspective, purpose, unity and feeling.  What do you like about flowers? What do you like about the flowers you are shooting in particular? What is the best way to show people how you think and feel about the flowers? Show us how YOU see these flowers and making them look beautiful is a good idea too. This isn't as easy as saying it. In order to express yourself well you need to learn the language. But it's good to practice as much as you can all the time and reduce arbitrary elements within your photos. I'm rambling. Good luck!


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## ifi (Jun 24, 2010)

Thanks again for your tips!

There won't be anyone there beside the decorator so I will be able to get as close as I want.


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## ifi (Jun 24, 2010)

jendra said:


> Indoor flower photographing is really difficult because lighting is the essential for flower photography...........................





pmsnel said:


> .........................Good luck!



Thank you guys. I won't be able to stage the photo shoot.

Thanks


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## ifi (Jul 2, 2010)

Here are few shots, please let me know what you think:

1:






2:





3:





4:





5:


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## KmH (Jul 3, 2010)

Only one close shot of the flowers is in focus.


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## ifi (Jul 3, 2010)

1, 2 and 3 were taken with Sigma 50mm @ 1.4.

How do we focus #5?


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## pdq5oh (Jul 3, 2010)

If you're shooting from too close with the 50mm lens, depth of field will be too shallow, IMO. The backgrounds are too distracting. Closing down the lens should help eliminate that & make the flowers stand out more. If your 17-50 will focus close enough, you could stop down to bring the whole flower arrangement into focus (increase depth of field) and darken the background. Be more aware of the background to eliminate the distractions. Since the flowers aren't moving, have you tried longer exposures with available light?


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## ifi (Jul 3, 2010)

pdq5oh said:


> Since the flowers aren't moving, have you tried longer exposures with available light?


I did then the flowers started moving - well, actually it was me moving because I had no tripod at that time 

Thanks so much for your response - I appreciate your input !

And welcome to the forum


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## KmH (Jul 3, 2010)

ifi said:


> I had no tripod at that time


The single most common mistake amateur shooters make when attempting to take photos in less than adequet light, and/or trying to do critical work at the limits of handheld shutter speed.

Using modified, strobed lighting would have solved numerous problems.

The problems are:

#1 - The ambient light is from a bad angle and leaves hard, sharp edged shadows.

#2 - a large portion of the background is badly blownout. Close the drapes.

#3 - Blownout windows and the tops of the tables closest to the windows. The blurred foreground is very distracting. (The scene is a good HDR candidate.)

#4 - The best of the photo's posted but poorly composed (background)and the green ©..........

#5 - Looks like a little motion blur, and insufficient DOF. With the correct DOF, you focus about 1/3 of the way into the scene. There is no EXIF data with the photo to bas a recommendation on, but you can go to www.dofmaster.com and plug in the appropriate numbers into their Online DOF calcualator.


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## ifi (Jul 3, 2010)

I was not allowed to bring lights or change/move anything including close drapes.

Thank you for your input, I will follow your suggestion.


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## KmH (Jul 3, 2010)

ifi said:


> I was not allowed to bring lights or change/move anything including close drapes.
> 
> Thank you for your input, I will follow your suggestion.


The old shoot with 1 hand tied behind your back syndrome. :gah:


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## kkamin (Jul 4, 2010)

It's amazing what framing can do. Compare #3 to #5. #3 looks very elegant and refined  (could be at an upscale country club) whereas, #5 looks like a cheap banquet room at the Hilton set-up for a high school prom. #3 is great. You're not showing the busy patterned, ugly carpet or overwhelming the viewer with abundant elements of the mustard and gold color scheme of the room.

#4 is the least successful image for me. The lighting is too flat and the scene itself is too dark and drab looking; it doesn't compliment the pretty flowers very well.

I really like #2 a lot. Despite losing edge deflnition due to a blown out window background, I think the depth of field is working magically here, the colors are great and the foreground and background elements support the subject superbly. 

I think #2 and #3 can show what you can do with the limitation of available light in that space with that subject. You really found great compositions and lighting in those images.


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## ifi (Jul 4, 2010)

kkamin said:


> It's amazing what framing can do. Compare #3 to #5. #3 looks very elegant and refined  (could be at an upscale country club) whereas, #5 looks like a cheap banquet room at the Hilton set-up for a high school prom. #3 is great. You're not showing the busy patterned, ugly carpet or overwhelming the viewer with abundant elements of the mustard and gold color scheme of the room.
> 
> #4 is the least successful image for me. The lighting is too flat and the scene itself is too dark and drab looking; it doesn't compliment the pretty flowers very well.
> 
> ...


My friend for whom I took these photos liked #3 the most. Thank you for your encouraging words 

I will upload some more soon...


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## ifi (Jul 4, 2010)

6:





7:




8:




9:


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## smokinphoto (Jul 8, 2010)

Photographing close-up subjects is extremely challenging. Few people can do it well. The closer you get to your subject, the shallower the depth of field (front to back focus), so if you're photographing the inside of a rose, for example, your depth of field will measure in fractions of an inch, so for the most part you must use as much depth of field as your camera will allow. Also, the slightest movement of subject or camera will result in blurry photos. When doing close-up work, you must plan ahead. As you gain in magnification, precise camera positioning becomes critical. In many situations, you must position your camera so that you are parallel to the subject; you simply cannot stop down enough to get everything in focus.


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## smokinphoto (Jul 8, 2010)

If you could order ideal weather for photographing flowers, plan on a day of soft overcast, with its diffused light and low contrast. Fog or misty rain can add great water droplet effects. Since we can't always create perfect weather, manufacturers have created "diffusion tents," simply made of thin white fabric on a frame. You can make your own with a white sheet, although you'll lose one or more stops of light. You can tack dark, opaque fabric on one side of this "tent" to create directional lighting (in this case, also known as subtractive lighting). And you can bring along a spray water bottle, such as those found in gardening departments, for those dew-drop effects.

*Autumn Leaves*
As with flowers, soft light is best for close-up work. Overcast days also bring out the warm colors found in autumn leaves. Sunlit days are okay, too, great for dramatic backlighting and spotlighting. Good timing helps. If you can, go out just after a storm has brought down fresh leaves. See how the greens and other cool colors balance with the warm colors. Use a warming filter for photographing leaves in the shade. Color enhancing filters also help. A saturated film such as Fuji's Velvia produces eye-popping colors.


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