# First paid gig



## Annrive (May 3, 2013)

Hello everyone


Last week I decided to get some experience taking professional photos for free. I am a graduate student who works at a college in the food section and asked a customer who so happens to be the director of food service if he needed any shots of special events or anything really. He told me that he actually was working on a project where he wanted to show students how the food is prepared through images and where it comes from on campus. So he offered me the job.

he wants 25 images and told me just to bill him and clock my hours. We never discussed price. 

So I was going to charge $25 per hour per the recommendation of a fellow advisor, but I wanted to get some suggestions from fellow photographers if that was a reasonable price.


----------



## tirediron (May 3, 2013)

It certainly is, for the customer.  Do you have a registered business, business bank-account, etc, already set up?  If not, I wonder how he's going to pay you as most institutions and large businesses aren't in the habit of writing cheques to individuals for professional services.  Hopefully he's got access to discretionary cash or something similar.  If $25/hr works for you, that's fine, but it is a very, very low rate (I assume you're in the US); I'll also assume as a college student you don't have a large amount of debt, but what about licensing fees for the images?


----------



## pixmedic (May 3, 2013)

does $25 an hour cover your cost of doing business?
what type of pictures? any post processing? do they want prints or on CD? what is the shooting time frame?
if you haven't discussed price, you need to know what the minimal amount of money you can take without losing money is or your just as well off telling them to just pay you whatever they feel like.


----------



## ronlane (May 3, 2013)

Without the information that Tirediron mentioned and without knowing the CODB, then it may be better off for the OP to just tell them pay whatever you feel like.


----------



## Light Guru (May 3, 2013)

Annrive said:


> I am a graduate student who works at a college in the food section and asked a customer who so happens to be the director of food service if he needed any shots



You work for food services and he is the director for food services. So he is basically your boss, you may not directly report to him but he is your boss.



Annrive said:


> he wants 25 images and told me just to bill him and clock my hours. We never discussed price. So I was going to charge $25 per hour



WAIT a minute there.  You offered to do work for someone you already work for so unless you have any other clear cut agreement which you don't you are going to be paid your regular hourly wage for the hours you do this photography.


----------



## KmH (May 3, 2013)

> Craig Oppenheimer of Wonderful Machine walks us through the details of a winning job bid for a restaurant&#8217;s photo shoot
> ..................................................................................................................
> *Creative/Licensing Fees:
> *The shot list described *13 images* in three categories:
> ...



Total estimate _*$19,900*_

Case Study: Producing A Successful Estimate | DigitalPhotoPro.com


----------



## Derrel (May 3, 2013)

KmH said:


> > Craig Oppenheimer of Wonderful Machine walks us through the details of a winning job bid for a restaurant&#8217;s photo shoot
> > ..................................................................................................................
> > *Creative/Licensing Fees:
> > *The shot list described *13 images* in three categories:
> ...



this is a fairly ridiculous comparison...here's why:  "The restaurant chain had more than 500 locations across the U.S., and they were working with the agency to refresh their website and integrate it with social media and online marketing."

The photographer above is working for a large, nation-wide chain...not a single university's food service. The company above wants the images for national web and social media use. The company above is a "*big fish*"...

Come on...in today's market, for a single customer, a university food service, paying the annual salary of one kitchen worker for a few student-shot photos would be career suicide...

Jennifer Anniston can command $5 million per acting role in a major Hollywood motion picture; a stage actress with 15 years' experience working in Dubuque will be lucky to earn $4,000 a MONTH.

The $19,900 fee represents $39.80 per restaurant in advertising expense for 19 images....PEANUTS...


----------



## hirejn (May 3, 2013)

Price is a big subject, but I do recommend getting the terms of this job in writing. If he's asking for 25 images, get it in writing that you'll deliver 25. Without written signed terms, the client can continue to make demands even after the job is done and put you in an awkward position and withhold money. Specify that no images will be delivered until payment is received in full. The fact that he's your boss/friend/relative makes it even more important, as business can easily strain relationships. Get stuff in writing. This is not an option. I think $25 is fair for an amateur.


----------



## jwbryson1 (May 3, 2013)

I'm going to jump right into this mess and offer my $0.02. Take it or leave it.

What the well meaning folks above are telling you would be terrific advice *if you were planning to go into photography as a full-time business where you would be earning a living shooting photos for paying clients*.  I don't read your post that way.  I read your post as a "one off" offer to shoot some images for a fee and get paid a small amount of money to do it.  As such, I find the entire discussion about a "cost of doing business," "registered business" and "business bank account" etc. to be way beyond the scope of this agreement.  

If it were me doing these shots, at a minimum I would just get an agreement with the director of food service IN WRITING telling him exactly what you expect to get paid per hour and exactly what they expect to receive in return (CD, emailed images, etc).  I don't think all the rest of this is necessary, but I'm sure I'll get flamed for those comments.

Just my $0.02.  YMMV.


----------



## cgipson1 (May 3, 2013)

Can you deliver photos that be of a quality worth paying for? (as well as the above!)


----------



## KmH (May 3, 2013)

Derrel said:


> this is a fairly ridiculous comparison.


 :lmao: It wasn't a comparison. :lmao:

It can be used as a guide and as an example of how professional pricing is arrived at.


----------



## Annrive (May 3, 2013)

@tirediron &#8211; I do not have a registered business/business bank account set up.  I actually haven&#8217;t thought of licensing fees for the images. Can you clarify on the process exactly?


----------



## Annrive (May 3, 2013)

pixmedic said:


> does $25 an hour cover your cost of doing business?
> what type of pictures? any post processing? do they want prints or on CD? what is the shooting time frame?
> if you haven't discussed price, you need to know what the minimal amount of money you can take without losing money is or your just as well off telling them to just pay you whatever they feel like.



@pixmedic &#8211; he basically wants photos of people preparing food , he would prefer to have the images on a thumb drive but CD would also be suitable, he said the images would be used to display on one of those picture frames that changes photos ,  as for time frame it is for the end of the semester which ends around May 18


----------



## Annrive (May 3, 2013)

Thanks everyone for the replies I got a lot of good information from you all. 

To just clear up when I asked the director if he wanted special shots I meant like anniversary or any family photos not work related.
And he is only my boss for one more week.


@Light Guru &#8211; I guess I will have to clear this up, since I will be doing this not as his employee, but as my own boss &#8211;

@Hirejn &#8211; this is great advice I will definitely work on that

@jwbryson1 &#8211; this is also very good advice and I think answers my question


----------



## Steve5D (May 3, 2013)

KmH said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> > this is a fairly ridiculous comparison.
> ...



Someone playing baseball in the minor leagues is a professional baseball player, but he's earning around $14,000.00 a year. Should that guy be able to make a legitimate case for making "Derek Jeter money"?

Of course not.

Context is important...


----------



## Steve5D (May 3, 2013)

hirejn said:


> Without written signed terms, the client can continue to make demands even after the job is done and put you in an awkward position and withhold money.



Contracts run both ways.

Without a contract, the customer can demand anything he wants, but is entitled to absolutely nothing. The photos would be complete, and he would have nothing...


----------



## Light Guru (May 3, 2013)

Annrive said:


> Thanks everyone for the replies I got a lot of good information from you all.
> 
> To just clear up when I asked the director if he wanted special shots I meant like anniversary or any family photos not work related.
> And he is only my boss for one more week.
> ...


----------



## imagemaker46 (May 3, 2013)

Enjoy the shoot, take the beer money and be happy.


----------



## Steve5D (May 3, 2013)

Light Guru said:


> From your post it sounded like you would be photographing something for the place you work. If that was the case your regular hourly wage would apply.



Nonsense. If taking pictures isn't in the job description of the job currently held, then it's all open to negotiation...


----------



## Light Guru (May 3, 2013)

Steve5D said:


> Light Guru said:
> 
> 
> > From your post it sounded like you would be photographing something for the place you work. If that was the case your regular hourly wage would apply.
> ...



Many job descriptions say "and other duties as determined by your supervisor" so they can use that to have you do just about anything. And since the OP is currently in food services I'm betting her job description says something similar.


----------



## Steve5D (May 3, 2013)

Light Guru said:


> Many job descriptions say "and other duties as determined by your supervisor" so they can use that to have you do just about anything. And since the OP is currently in food services I'm betting her job description says something similar.



Oh, it probably does.

I wonder if the food services department has a DSLR because, if they don't, they'll need one. 

The owner of my company wanted me to take photos for all of our locations (five in total), and to write a regular blog and maintain our social media sites. I told him "Sure, here's what it'll cost you".

He opted out.

Basically, your position is that if the supervisor determines that an employee needs to sweep the parking lot with a toothbrush, well, that employee better get to sweepin'.

That's just not the case...


----------



## Sw1tchFX (May 3, 2013)

Annrive said:


> he wants 25 images and told me just to bill him and clock my hours. We never discussed price.
> 
> So I was going to charge $25 per hour per the recommendation of a fellow advisor, but I wanted to get some suggestions from fellow photographers if that was a reasonable price.





Are you f*cking serious? So your client has _no idea_ how much he'll be invoiced? This might actually be the stupidest thing i've ever read on here in the 7 years i've been active. Oh my god people...


----------



## Trever1t (May 3, 2013)

Obviously you will need to make sure he agrees on a price before the shoot.


----------



## vintagesnaps (May 3, 2013)

Wouldn't the college have procedures established for their expenditures? I've worked as a teacher, not at college level but anyplace I've worked there were definite guidelines on purchases etc. It seems unusual to me that he wouldn't have discussed the amount of payment or what procedure to follow - or if that didn't happen at the time, that he wouldn't have told you who to see about the specifics. 

He might have authority to issue payment without prior approval of the cost, but what happens if you turn in your hours and bill for your costs and it's more than expected or typically paid for this type work and the college doesn't approve the amount? Maybe you need to find out about when you'll receive payment, if your anticipated cost would be approved, etc. since this will be done for a display at the end of the semester and you're finishing up your current job in food service.


----------



## tirediron (May 4, 2013)

^^  That!


----------



## Steve5D (May 4, 2013)

vintagesnaps said:


> Wouldn't the college have procedures established for their expenditures?



They well may, but I don't see any reason why a student would be made aware of them...


----------



## vintagesnaps (May 4, 2013)

I doubt they would, they'd probably need to ask. 

I don't know if procedures for this type thing would even be published in a college's General Bulletin, but the way universities are run, they probably _have_ procedures for it! The last time I took a summer workshop the parking rules & regs alone were more complicated than registering for the course. Or taking the course for that matter.


----------

