# sharper/better focused images, fast sports?



## shadowlands (Oct 12, 2017)

OK, to make a long story short, I want more "keepers" when I shoot sports. My son plays football. I stand on the sidelines and try to capture images of him in action, etc...
I get some keepers, but just as many out of focus captures to toss. 
What gives? Could use some pointers. Not looking for better equipment. Just looking to nail focusing more often. 
D800 & 70-200 VRI
I use "C" continuous and I've tired 9 points, 51 points, 3D, etc.. can't seem to master this aspect of shooting.


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## weepete (Oct 12, 2017)

Try a single point, or group area af (5 point) make sure he is big enough in the frame to get the focus locked and keep the shutter speed up! Also try and trip the shutter just before the peak of the action rather than randomly burst shooting. 

The nature of sports and wildlife though means you will be trashing a lot of shots anyway.


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## shadowlands (Oct 12, 2017)

weepete said:


> Try a single point, or group area af (5 point) make sure he is big enough in the frame to get the focus locked and keep the shutter speed up! Also try and trip the shutter just before the peak of the action rather than randomly burst shooting.
> 
> The nature of sports and wildlife though means you will be trashing a lot of shots anyway.


Appreciate it. Thanks for taking the time. I shoot in AP at 2.8. Would I be better off shooting in SP?


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## shadowlands (Oct 12, 2017)

I swear I once got sharper images with moving sports. I just restored my camera to factory defaults. My glass tests just fine.
It's something with focusing ability, and or my technique, lack of.


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## weepete (Oct 12, 2017)

Appreciate it. Thanks for taking the time. I shoot in AP at 2.8. Would I be better off shooting in SP?[/QUOTE]

Ah, that could be it. In my opinion, yes though there are a lot of people who shoot that way. Personally I prefer shooting in manual with auto ISO so I can set the DOF and keep the shutter speed high enough, I control exposure through the metering mode. I'm a canon shooter so dont know the nikon metering modes but I normally use Centre Weighted Average, possibly a spot meter if the lighting is really difficult but it can be very hard to control. Some places are just too dim lighting wise for sports and you are allways on to a looser unless you can get some flashes in there, but a lot of places that is just not allowed.


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## smoke665 (Oct 12, 2017)

Ron Lane another TPF member does some fabulous sport shots. Here is a link to the posting where he describes his technique. Will need to scroll down some, post #5. HS Football - week 3  I learned something thanks to him.


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## SCraig (Oct 12, 2017)

Single-point autofocus, turn the multiple points off unless you want your focus jumping everywhere.  Manual mode or shutter priority, not aperture priority.  Aperture means little unless the area is dimly lighted.  Keep your focus point ON THE SUBJECT AT ALL TIMES.  Don't let it move off.  That means you will have to pan the camera with the subject and that does take some practice.  If you want to completely freeze everything in the frame use 1/2000 second shutter speed, possibly 1/1000.  Much slower if you want the background to show motion blur, which I personally prefer.  Shooting motorsports I typically use 1/125 second.  Play with the shutter speed until you get the results you like.  If it's dim you'll have to sacrifice some shutter speed to get a decent exposure.

The important thing is to keep the focus point on the subject at all times.  Pan with the subject and don't let the focus point get off him.


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## ronlane (Oct 12, 2017)

@smoke665 pretty much made my comment for me on this one, huh???? lol.

The advice you have been given is solid and will help you. I would really suggest the single point focus area to help with the camera from moving the point on you.

The big thing that I would add to what has been said here is to use back button focus if you aren't already. It will take some getting used and jumping from QB to WR you have to remember to lift and acquire focus again but give it time.

I will add this as far as keepers. I have a decent keeper rate but there are still nights that I take 325 images and end up keeping only about 100-125.


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## Derrel (Oct 12, 2017)

My suggestions:
3) Read The Manual 2) practice. 1) buy the Thom Hogan Complete Guide to the D800/D810/

 MANUALLY select the starting AF area using the button pad on the back of the camera is a key part of Nikon AF.

There is a 90% chance you have the LOCK ON setting set to the wrong value, since it is in Japanese English, and is utterly backward from what most people think it means.


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## shadowlands (Oct 12, 2017)

Derrel said:


> My suggestions:
> 3) Read The Manual 2) practice. 1) buy the Thom Hogan Complete Guide to the D800/D810/
> 
> MANUALLY select the starting AF area using the button pad on the back of the camera is a key part of Nikon AF.
> ...



LOCK ON? I will look into that.


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## shadowlands (Oct 12, 2017)

Thanks!


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## shadowlands (Oct 12, 2017)

Single Point Focus it is, moving forward.


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## astroNikon (Oct 13, 2017)

Yes from all the above.

I learned long ago when doing sports on my D7000 that Single Point focus is the way to go.  After all, you want to focus on ONE particular subject.  The camera's computer doesn't know that. The camera wants to focus on the best contrast detected image out there. I learned that with the 70-300 nikon lens which, because of contrast issues, liked to focus on background fences and other subjects with more contrast.  Nikon's also like the cross detection points in the middle of the frame (on the older AF systems).

The single focus point will give you focus on the subject that YOU want, not the camera's computer.  You do have to keep your aim on the subject.

I also always use Manual Exposure because I want a particular Aperture and a particular Shutter Speed.  You can use AP and SP but have to set those other limits to do what you want in your parameters.

ie, you want f/2.8 for subject isolation
and you want a high shutter speed to stop action.
you need both with AUTO ISO to control the ISO

Though one particular person here on TPF showed AP with parameters to counter if it got too bright the shutter would increase if the camera was at base ISO for a proper exposure.

Once I got all that and worked on my finger's ability to push the button half way my capture rate for in-focus shots skyrocketed.  Many times I knew when I took a shot that was OOF before looking at it.  (I have to Focus Acquire turned off)

As the action moved I also kept the focus throw short by focusing on the moving action but not taking a pic unless I wanted too. This minimized the focus throw distance for the lens and improved keepers once again.

I also try to get the action (primarily soccer) moving towards me.  So I'm not in the "middle" of the sidelines but I try to be at the corners to get the action and faces coming towards me.


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## shadowlands (Oct 13, 2017)

astroNikon said:


> Yes from all the above.
> 
> I learned long ago when doing sports on my D7000 that Single Point focus is the way to go.  After all, you want to focus on ONE particular subject.  The camera's computer doesn't know that. The camera wants to focus on the best contrast detected image out there. I learned that with the 70-300 nikon lens which, because of contrast issues, liked to focus on background fences and other subjects with more contrast.  Nikon's also like the cross detection points in the middle of the frame (on the older AF systems).
> 
> ...



I appreciate the tips. Hey, 3D tracking is never mentioned. It's over-rated, I'm hearing? I will truly go back to single spot focus for sure. I believe that's what I did in the past with more success.
Auto ISO, note taken.


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## astroNikon (Oct 13, 2017)

shadowlands said:


> astroNikon said:
> 
> 
> > Yes from all the above.
> ...


3D tracking is nice especially if there is only ONE subject you are tracking and it's a clear background.  Different 3D tracking/AF systems will vary a bit on that.   But in soccer (or whatever), if you use 3D tracking what subject is the camera going to initially focus on?  If you are using a large aperture there could be a possibility that the real subject you want is OOF.  

So Single Focus puts all the effort on the photographer.  If you focus on the Subject that you want, then it's your finger, the lens focus speed, and how quickly you take the shot.  Less things to go wrong, hopefully.


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## shadowlands (Oct 13, 2017)

astroNikon said:


> shadowlands said:
> 
> 
> > astroNikon said:
> ...


Most excellent. Thanks big time, for taking the time.
I'll on the filed tomorrow morning, hopefully with better results.


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## vintagesnaps (Oct 13, 2017)

You may want to open up the lens if you're trying to get a close up but otherwise sports are usually done usaing a midrange to smaller f stop. Depends on the playing area and if you're trying to get a number of players in focus. Keep the shutter speed up fast enough to freeze action.

It takes practice. Lots. I've done mostly hockey, learned with a mechanical film camera, all manual settings. I usually shoot manually with my digital camera now. It takes learning to anticipate the action to be set where the play will go next; it works better to let the play come to you rather than trying to chase it around with your lens.

Go early, find good vantage points, consider how the background's going to look from there. Watch posts and poles etc. and frame straight, frame so you're not chopping people and things off, get them in the frame or keep them out of the frame. Go for 'clean' shots. 

Look at good professional photographers' work to learn from. Notice where they shoot from, how they frame shots, how they captured the action, etc. Some well known good photographers are Peter Read Miller, Walter Iooss, Neil Leifer, Bill Frakes, Robert Beck, Brad Mangin.... You might try Sports Photography and Photojournalism for Professional Photographers and Photography | SportsShooter.com , it's done by pro photographers. Last I looked they weren't as active (stopped doing a newsletter probably because they're working pros) but you can search the site.


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## shadowlands (Oct 16, 2017)

You guys rock! Shot my kids football game. Single Point. MUCH MUCH MUCH improved. 90% keepers!!! I will keep practicing of course, but this is a great start!


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## ac12 (Dec 6, 2017)

This is a bit late for this season, but for next year...
I was shooting high school football, volleyball and now soccer and basketball.

There is no magic solution, just some advice and HARD work.

Set the AF to SINGLE POINT, CENTER.  There are too many players moving around and crossing each other for the zone mode of any camera to accurately track the subject.  Cameras don't have a link to your brain to know what is the subject in that mass of players.
I have used 9 point.  BUT, it is easily fooled by the line ref crossing in front of me.  Then it starts to track the ref, not the player  

I use Continuous mode AF.

Don't bother trying to reframe the image, things in sports are moving too fast for that.  
Just keep the subject under the center AF point.

Practice, practice, practice.  Nothing can replace practice to learn to follow the subject.  If the subject is off the focus point, he will be out of focus.  
Tip, don't zoom in TIGHT.  I find it more difficult to track the subject if I zoom in TIGHT.

Learn to shoot with 2 eyes.  Your 2nd eye will help keep situational awareness, before it appears in the viewfinder.

Learn to work the zoom ring  as you track the subject.

Your stance is important.  You need to stand so that you can pivot with the action and still support the camera+lens.
It is like shooting a shotgun at clay birds.

Finally, if you have not figured this out, SITUATIONAL awareness is critical.
Be aware of the players on the field and as they get close to you.  GET OUT OF THE WAY if they get too close.  If you get hit by a player in full padding, you loose; your gear and maybe a trip to the hospital.

gud luk


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## shadowlands (Dec 6, 2017)

Never too late. Appreciate it. Shoot, my lens is on it's way back from Midwest Camera Repair. Back-focus issue, I believe.
I'll know more soon!


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## Designer (Dec 6, 2017)

shadowlands said:


> OK, to make a long story short, I want more "keepers" when I shoot sports. My son plays football. I stand on the sidelines and try to capture images of him in action, etc...
> I get some keepers, but just as many out of focus captures to toss.
> What gives? Could use some pointers. Not looking for better equipment. Just looking to nail focusing more often.
> D800 & 70-200 VRI
> I use "C" continuous and I've tired 9 points, 51 points, 3D, etc.. can't seem to master this aspect of shooting.


What are your other settings?  Aperture and shutter speed?  

If you're shooting at maximum aperture, the DOF will be very thin, making much of your subject OOF.  If the shutter speed is not fast enough, you will get motion blur.  

If the action is at right angles to your lens, and moving, it will be difficult or impossible to get sharp photos.  

Position yourself to get mostly head-on shots of the players coming right at you.  (Be sure to jump out of the way when they get to your position.)


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## ac12 (Dec 7, 2017)

For a day game, I would not go below 1/1000 sec.
For a night game, with enough light and high enough ISO, I would not go below 1/500 sec.  1/1000 is better.

The closer the action is to you, the faster the apparent motion, and the more difficult to freeze or for the camera to follow focus.


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## shadowlands (Dec 7, 2017)

I honestly believe my lens had a back focus issue.
It comes back next week, and I'll test it, big time.


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## Braineack (Dec 7, 2017)

shadowlands said:


> Hey, 3D tracking is never mentioned. It's over-rated, I'm hearing?



the 9-21-51 dynamic focus IMHO is much better for sports.  You need to acquire focus with you selected point and the AF module will use neighboring focus points to keep the subject in focus as you/it moves -- If the focus point you're on leaves the subject or loses focus.  You need to keep your focus point on the subject.

3D tracking works best if the camera is on a tripod and not moving much at all.  Your AF module will actually move from one focus point to another to keep the subject in focus, (you will see this in the viewfinder) -- as it tracks the subject's movement through the focus area.  If you can't keep up tracking your subjects, this might work well for you too. 

I use AF-C 9pt almost 100% of the time and I've never had focus issues.


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## shadowlands (Dec 7, 2017)

Braineack said:


> shadowlands said:
> 
> 
> > Hey, 3D tracking is never mentioned. It's over-rated, I'm hearing?
> ...



I will try that when I'm testing my lens, upon it's return, of course.
Boom!


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## Derrel (Dec 7, 2017)

"I have used 9 point. BUT, it is easily fooled by the line ref crossing in front of me. Then it starts to track the ref, not the player " 

And THAT is exactly why *lock-on needs to be set to SLOW, not FAST*. Which is as I have mentioned here many,many,many times the exact OPPOSITE of the way most people set Lock-On.

If a foreground object that the camera just "swings by" causes the focus to move to the wrong zone, youi'e probably got Lock-On set to FAST....because you think it means, "well, I want focus to Lock-On as fast as possible." No, wrong.

Lock-On SHOULD have been labeled something like _temporary new target or object acquisition delay_: SLOW, or FAST.

If a single person stepping in front of a locked-on focus point causes an immediate refocus in sports or action shooting--you do NOT have your new,modern, Nikon camera set up right.

I cannot agree with all of this single point AF talk here...nope, no way...9 or 11-point, and RTFM and practice for a year or so..


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## shadowlands (Dec 7, 2017)

Derrel said:


> "I have used 9 point. BUT, it is easily fooled by the line ref crossing in front of me. Then it starts to track the ref, not the player "
> 
> And THAT is exactly why *lock-on needs to be set to SLOW, not FAST*. Which is as I have mentioned here many,many,many times the exact OPPOSITE of the way most people set Lock-On.
> 
> ...



I can't wait to get my lens back to try different things and see if I can get better with it.


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## ac12 (Dec 8, 2017)

Braineack said:


> shadowlands said:
> 
> 
> > Hey, 3D tracking is never mentioned. It's over-rated, I'm hearing?
> ...



I found that you have to test them out to see what works for you and the sport you are shooting.

I currently shoot 9 point dynamic.
However, you need to be prepared to refocus.  I had a line ref run in front of me, and the camera lost focus lock on the subject and locked onto the line ref.  The next shots had the player out of focus, but the line ref running down the sideline was in focus.

In a group of players mixing it up, the camera could loose focus lock of the player and lock onto another player.

3D 
Was worthless, when I was shooting tennis.  The focus indicator would bounce all over; court lines, background, etc.  I did not have any confidence on the AF staying with the player.

Worthless, when I was shooting football.  In a group of players (think QB running through the line) the AF would loose focus of QB and the  lock onto another player.  IOW, it could not track the subject, once the subject got into a group of other players.




Derrel said:


> "I have used 9 point. BUT, it is easily fooled by the line ref crossing in front of me. Then it starts to track the ref, not the player "
> 
> And THAT is exactly why *lock-on needs to be set to SLOW, not FAST*. Which is as I have mentioned here many,many,many times the exact OPPOSITE of the way most people set Lock-On.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the tip.

I found the "lock-on" in the custom settings.
Mine was at 3 = normal.
I changed it to 5 = slow.
There is a basketball game next week that I can try it out.

Have you tried 3D with the slow lock-on?


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## Derrel (Dec 9, 2017)

Yes! I like it set to slow...so it does NOT immediately try to re-focus on _*temporarily in-the-shot things*_ that were not initially selected by me, using the 4-way controller.

The idea is to use the 4-way controller, to manually TELL the camera what the desired AF area or target "is"...then, Nikon's color-aware, and distance-aware 3-D metering can get the focus on that subject and based on your, initial,manually-set initial target lock, the computer can track and follow that subject.

I've been using SLOW for years now.


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## mk04447 (Aug 27, 2018)

My .02, most of my shots are usable when AF works; that means it needs to be fast. In order to get that, OS needs to be off, F 4 is better than F 2.8, and 9 point is superior. I stopped using single point long ago.


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## greybeard (Aug 30, 2018)

For shooting in daylight, I use single point continuous back button.  Manual 1/1000,  f stop depends on the lens I'm using but usually f/8.


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