# portrait lighting



## maverickphoto (Sep 8, 2008)

Ok im starting to get people intrested in doing some portrait sitting with me. I need some lighting. What kinda set up should i be looking for? Soft boxes? ect......and must be able to take it on locations.


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## Village Idiot (Sep 8, 2008)

maverickphoto said:


> Ok im starting to get people intrested in doing some portrait sitting with me. I need some lighting. What kinda set up should i be looking for? Soft boxes? ect......and must be able to take it on locations.


 
Budget? 

Do you want the $300 lighting special or the $3000 lighting special?


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## maverickphoto (Sep 8, 2008)

Good question, I was looking at around $300-400.


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## Village Idiot (Sep 8, 2008)

maverickphoto said:


> Good question, I was looking at around $300-400.


 
Cheapest thing I can think of off the top of my head involves ebay


Set of Gadget Infinity, Cactus V2S trigger and receiver = $30
Additional receiver = $15
2 x Vivitar 283 = $35ea used
2 8 lightstands = $20ea
2 Umbrella adapters = $15ea
2 westcott 43 white satin shoot through umbrellas = $20ea


The bare necessities comes to about $220. You may want a reflector and a stand. You can get better triggers, but that ends up costing you about $150-$200 more though. The GI wireless triggers can be very unreliable. It all depends on what say they were produced and how youre intending to use them.

The Vivitar 283s are a work horse. Theyre older but cheap on e-bay.

The rest are just lightstands and umbrellas.

If you know nothing about off camera lighting, I suggest you start here: http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/03/lighting-101.html


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## Big Mike (Sep 8, 2008)

You can create great portraits with nothing more than window light.  So rather than thinking about what type of equipment you need, think about the type of portraits you want to take and then figure out what type of lighting will get you those results.


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## sperry (Sep 8, 2008)

Big Mike said:


> You can create great portraits with nothing more than window light. So rather than thinking about what type of equipment you need, think about the type of portraits you want to take and then figure out what type of lighting will get you those results.


 
agreed. good advice mike.

and if you can't find a window one light is all you need - hot shoe and umbrella. maybe a reflector too.

http://picasaweb.google.com/samuel.perry/portraits

for the infants, they were taken with a window, reflector, and hotshoe on camera (my transmitter wasn't working that day). i had planned to use off-camera hotshoe but for some reason it wouldn't work that day. unwelcome surprise when you break out all of your gear and get ready to shoot. oh well, it didn't turn out completely bad.

http://picasaweb.google.com/samuel.perry/kids

just goes to show how little you can get away with.


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## Village Idiot (Sep 9, 2008)

Big Mike said:


> You can create great portraits with nothing more than window light. So rather than thinking about what type of equipment you need, think about the type of portraits you want to take and then figure out what type of lighting will get you those results.


 
Cheap, but a pain. Window light isn't always where it needs to be. Having at least one strobe gives you flexibility.


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## maverickphoto (Sep 9, 2008)

I was looking at getting a pair of pocket wizards, a strobe and a umbrella oh and a reflector. I think that should get me started?

jason


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## William Petruzzo (Sep 9, 2008)

Look at Alienbees. Full range of completely sufficient equipment and really well priced. 

But I still have to agree with Big Mike. You can waste an awful lot of money buying a bunch of equipment if you buy it expecting it to make great pictures for you, when you're not even quite sure what _kind_ of pictures you want to take.


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## maverickphoto (Sep 9, 2008)

bpetruzzo said:


> when you're not even quite sure what _kind_ of pictures you want to take.


 
 I plan on taking family pics. Some inside and some outdoors. I even have one set up for this saturday.  Of course its my cousion and her family and im doing it for free for the experince.


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## William Petruzzo (Sep 9, 2008)

Good place to start. Village Idiot's suggestion about the Vivitar flashes might be the best for you, since you're just starting to get a feel for studio setup. I can't say much about the Vivitar stuff. I've never used it. But I've heard good things.

If you wanted to spend more, I couldn't recommend Alienbees more highly.

Just my two cents.


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## Village Idiot (Sep 9, 2008)

bpetruzzo said:


> Good place to start. Village Idiot's suggestion about the Vivitar flashes might be the best for you, since you're just starting to get a feel for studio setup. I can't say much about the Vivitar stuff. I've never used it. But I've heard good things.
> 
> If you wanted to spend more, I couldn't recommend Alienbees more highly.
> 
> Just my two cents.


 
Unless you want portability. Just an AB B800 & Vagabond II will run you $600 where as three Sunpak 383's will be $240 new.


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## Village Idiot (Sep 9, 2008)

maverickphoto said:


> I was looking at getting a pair of pocket wizards, a strobe and a umbrella oh and a reflector. I think that should get me started?
> 
> jason


 
Yes. Are you sure you want to get into this though? Two PW's are about $370.

They are the industry standard and if you're a serious hobbyist or working your way towards doing this professionally, then it's worth the investment. If you're only going to "play" with them on occasion then it could be a waste.


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## maverickphoto (Sep 9, 2008)

Village Idiot said:


> They are the industry standard and if you're a serious hobbyist or working your way towards doing this professionally, then it's worth the investment. If you're only going to "play" with them on occasion then it could be a waste.


 
I plan on gettig into this professionally. I have about 15 families set up for the next few months that will be paying customers. So let me ask you guys something. So would getting a speedflash, a pair of pocket wizards, a reflector, a strope and a umbrella be a good starter set up? or help me out. what all would i need for a good set up? I did find this from a forum member on ebay.  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=130252965194


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## Christie Photo (Sep 9, 2008)

maverickphoto said:


> I plan on gettig into this professionally.



Professionally?  Then look into Balcar, Photogenic or Broncolor.

EDIT:  Oh...  I just re-read the thread and saw "looking at around $300-400."  You cannot buy professional studio portrait lighting with this budget.


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## Big Mike (Sep 9, 2008)

Group shots can be a lot harder to light than singles or just a couple.  

As you start out, I'd suggest trying to find good outdoor locations where you can use natural light for your family portraits (nice shady spots).  Natural light portraits with a good background, good composition and good exposure, can _be_ just as 'professional' as studio shots with 10 lights.  Maybe use one flash for fill light, it could be used on-camera.


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## vidish (Sep 9, 2008)

maverickphoto said:


> I plan on gettig into this professionally. I have about 15 families set up for the next few months that will be paying customers.



Assuming these families have paid for your services in advance can't you purchase some pro gear?

Did your prices include products such as prints or are those for purchase separately?

If you are located in a state that has nicer weather year round you could consider photographing them outdoors


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## maverickphoto (Sep 9, 2008)

I was thinking of finding something for indoors since the cold weather here is starting. Be kinda hard to convince a family or couple to brave -10 degree weather to take pics. To where if i had the means to do inside homes with a set up id be good to go. So any ideas as to a good set up? I might be able to raise my set up cost to around 700.00


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## maverickphoto (Sep 9, 2008)

vidish said:


> Assuming these families have paid for your services in advance can't you purchase some pro gear?


 
Nothing set in stone but they have all been refered to me and have them set up just have to collect is all in the next few months. So to answer yours question. NO no one has paid in advance so far but im not worried about them not coming through.


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## vidish (Sep 9, 2008)

Right - I wasn't sure as to where you are located.  I'm sure they will come through - no question there - simply that if the money was in hand it could be used for gear.

I shot portraits with vivitar flash w/ umbrella and reflector until I could afford to buy monolights.  So that could work too.


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## maverickphoto (Sep 9, 2008)

vidish said:


> Right - I wasn't sure as to where you are located.


 
Omaha,Ne


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## vidish (Sep 9, 2008)

Oh yeah you guys get brutal winters like us.  Stay warm.


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## Christie Photo (Sep 9, 2008)

vidish said:


> I shot portraits with vivitar flash w/ umbrella and reflector until I could afford to buy monolights.  So that could work too.




Exactly.  This is good advice.

For pro gear, you should be thinking more like $1200 per light average, considering you'll need reflectors (umbrellas/softboxes) and some decent stands.

-Pete


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## Christie Photo (Sep 9, 2008)

Big Mike said:


> ...I'd suggest trying to find good outdoor locations where you can use natural light for your family portraits...  Natural light portraits with a good background, good composition and good exposure, can just as 'professional' as studio shots with 10 lights.



Again, VERY good advice.

-Pete


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## Village Idiot (Sep 9, 2008)

Christie Photo said:


> Exactly. This is good advice.
> 
> For pro gear, you should be thinking more like $1200 per light average, considering you'll need reflectors (umbrellas/softboxes) and some decent stands.
> 
> -Pete


 
Price does not = pro.



maverickphoto said:


> I was thinking of finding something for indoors since the cold weather here is starting. Be kinda hard to convince a family or couple to brave -10 degree weather to take pics. To where if i had the means to do inside homes with a set up id be good to go. So any ideas as to a good set up? I might be able to raise my set up cost to around 700.00


 
Professional results can be done on a budget. It's about knowledge of your tools and how to use them to get the most out of them. The reason a "studio strobe" would be better than a speedlight for shooting group photos is that the larger light can put out much more power. On average, studio lights are about 400 w/s. Speed lights are about 60.

Can you tell which one of these was shot with a 320w/s studio strobe and which was shot with a Canon speedlight?


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## sperry (Sep 9, 2008)

maverickphoto said:


> I plan on gettig into this professionally. I have about 15 families set up for the next few months that will be paying customers. So let me ask you guys something. So would getting a speedflash, a pair of pocket wizards, a reflector, a strope and a umbrella be a good starter set up? or help me out. what all would i need for a good set up? I did find this from a forum member on ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=130252965194


 
if you have bookings for portraits, you might as well nab full set up. the 3 light set up will give you a lot of functionality. i'm working my way up one light at a time.

the only thing that stood out with that kit was the size of the umbrellas (~24"). you might want to consider adding something larger if you are shooting couples/families, or full body shots. 

the nice thing about buying used (assuming you don't get ripped off) is that you don't loose much if you don't stick with it. so go for it, you'll learn a ton about lighting when you introduce the complexity of a multi-light system.


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## Christie Photo (Sep 9, 2008)

Village Idiot said:


> Price does not = pro.


  No kiddin'.  

Pro gear has nothing to do with price.  It has everything to do with quality and features. 




Village Idiot said:


> Professional results can be done on a budget. It's about knowledge of your tools and how to use them to get the most out of them.



And some tools make the process easier, providing more control, security, reliability and durability.



Village Idiot said:


> The reason a "studio strobe" would be better than a speedlight for shooting group photos is that the larger light can put out much more power. On average, studio lights are about 400 w/s. Speed lights are about 60.



Sadly, I'm still using an old Speedotron 1200 brown line.  When I shoot portraits, I set the unit on low (200ws) with 3 lamps.  That's about 65ws to each lamp.  Much more power is not necessarily needed.  The problem with this unit compared to higher quality pro units is consistency.  The output can vary slightly from exposure to exposure.  I've been using this particular system for about 23 years.  However, one huge advantage in addition to those I've already mentioned is a modeling light.



Village Idiot said:


> Can you tell which one of these was shot with a 320w/s studio strobe and which was shot with a Canon speedlight?



I can't.  But they both appear to have been made with just one light.

Now that I've addressed each of your assertions, I'm not sure what point you're making.  I can make a decent portrait with a point 'n' shoot, but when someone states, "I plan on gettig into this professionally," I'm not sending him out to buy a Powershot.

-Pete


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## Village Idiot (Sep 10, 2008)

Christie Photo said:


> No kiddin'.
> 
> Pro gear has nothing to do with price. It has everything to do with quality and features.
> 
> ...


 
That the following statement is a moot point.



Christie Photo said:


> Professionally? Then look into Balcar, Photogenic or Broncolor.
> 
> EDIT: Oh... I just re-read the thread and saw "looking at around $300-400." You cannot buy professional studio portrait lighting with this budget.


 
Just because the person wants to eventually get into making a living off of this stuff, doesn't mean that they have to have lights that are $1000 a piece.

Joe McNally did a portrait at the top of the Empire State Building or the Chrysler Building (and I mean the top.) shooting the guy that has to go all the way up the spire to change the little red flashing light bulb. 

He did it with a Nikon SB800, iirc.

Just because some one wants to do professional portraiture doesn't mean that they have to sit in a studio with a bunch of expensive gear. In fact, that kind of thinking would most likely have a person stuck doing the same old crap that's been done before. 

I could replicate photos by tons of people with "professional" gear with $400 worth of lighting equipment.

Being a successful professional has everything to do with having a unique approach to things and not on how much expensive gear you have...


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## Christie Photo (Sep 10, 2008)

Village Idiot said:


> Being a successful professional has everything to do with having a unique approach to things and not on how much expensive gear you have...



...and neither of these points has anything to do with "I plan on gettig into this professionally. ...what all would i need for a good set up?





Village Idiot said:


> Just because some one wants to do professional portraiture doesn't mean that they have to sit in a studio with a bunch of expensive gear. In fact, that kind of thinking would most likely have a person stuck doing the same old crap that's been done before.



Where does _this_ come from?  I think we need a new thread to discuss this.  Here...  I'll start one.

-Pete


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## Village Idiot (Sep 10, 2008)

Christie Photo said:


> ...and neither of these points has anything to do with "I plan on gettig into this professionally. ...what all would i need for a good set up?


 


Village Idiot said:


> I could replicate photos by tons of people with "professional" gear with $400 worth of lighting equipment.


 
That has everything to do with it. For $400 you could get a good setup to do professional portraiture. Just because I'm spending $40 on a light instead of $1000 doesn't make my photos any less professional. I could show up to a shoot with a box of Captain Crunch used as a snoot and still take professional photos.



Christie Photo said:


> Where does _this_ come from? I think we need a new thread to discuss this. Here... I'll start one.
> 
> -Pete


 
Because a person wants to do something professionally doesn't mean he needs the best tools in the buisness, but he does need appropriate tools. Home Depot's brand of hammers may not be as highly rated as Snap Ons, but they'll still build a house.


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## Christie Photo (Sep 10, 2008)

Village Idiot said:


> Just because I'm spending $40 on a light instead of $1000 doesn't make my photos any less professional.



Yes, yes.  I believe we agree on this.



Village Idiot said:


> Because a person wants to do something professionally doesn't mean he needs the best tools in the buisness, but he does need appropriate tools. Home Depot's brand of hammers may not be as highly rated as Snap Ons, but they'll still build a house.



And I think we agree on this too.

All I'm saying is if someone is setting up to do this professionally, they should invest in the "appropriate tools."  And those tools don't come from the hardware store or involve duct tape.  We all know what is possible with entry level gear.  But when someone is "setting up shop," it's time to look down the road a bit and acquire tools that will perform well, allow them to perform well.

-Pete


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## maverickphoto (Sep 10, 2008)

I like all the interaction on this topic, but no one has really helped me set up a good system.


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## sperry (Sep 10, 2008)

maverickphoto said:


> I like all the interaction on this topic, but no one has really helped me set up a good system.



well i think you have received some good guidelines if not specific instructions. 

your budget is a little restrictive if you are 'going pro' with a studio set up. although, i think you can get plenty good results with a couple hotshoe flashes and umbrellas to start with. or, get a smokin deal on a cheap used monolight set. start small and find your limitations, then add to your set up as needed.

also, work hard to learn all the concepts of studio lighting and posing.  there is a lot to learn... i know, i'm learning too.


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## 8power (Sep 10, 2008)

maverickphoto said:


> I like all the interaction on this topic, but no one has really helped me set up a good system.



Find a camera shop run by a friendly pro and make purchasing decisions based upon what new/used items actually are available for purchase at the time. Negotiate.


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## maverickphoto (Sep 10, 2008)

8power said:


> Find a camera shop run by a friendly pro


 
Thats a tough one, The 2 camera shops here in town are the same owners and i think he hires the rudest people in town. Every time I go in to either one I get asked by at least 3 people if i need any help. Not a bad thing but When i say im just looking they get this "well if your not going to buy then fine" look on there face.  Just because im not spending 1000.00 they dont want to talk to you.  I went in there today to look at lighting and while I was there I asked to use the rest room. The guy had the nerve to walk me to the rest room and stood outside the door till i came out. Now the RR are not in the back with product laying around but in a hallway. So if someone was dishonest the only thing they could grab would be maybe a pencil.  I get the feeling that im bothering them if i go in and look at some lenes.  I also was asking about filters and hoods for my lenes. He grab 2 40.00 filters and hoods and put them on the counter and left them there for me to buy. Just because I was asking about them dosent mean i need to buy them. I finaly had enough and just left. It was a weird moment and i was all ready PO about the whole RR thing. Thank god for craigs list and ebay. LOL  Sorry had to rant.


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## Village Idiot (Sep 11, 2008)

maverickphoto said:


> I like all the interaction on this topic, but no one has really helped me set up a good system.


 
:er:



Village Idiot said:


> Cheapest thing I can think of off the top of my head involves ebay
> 
> 
> Set of Gadget Infinity, Cactus V2S trigger and receiver = $30
> ...


 
Did you change your requirements? Sub out new Sunpak 383's for used Vivitars. Or whatever. Lights and triggers are pretty much interchangable in that list. Want me to spend more of your money for you?


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## Village Idiot (Sep 11, 2008)

8power said:


> Find a camera shop run by a friendly pro and make purchasing decisions based upon what new/used items actually are available for purchase at the time. Negotiate.


 
Brick & Mortar have to be some of the worst places to shop for cameras at. One of the bigger local ones wanted to charge me $2100 for the Canon 70-200 f/2.8L IS. I saved $500 from purchasing from B&H.

Canon 430EX's were still going for retail when you could get them for something like $250 online new.


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## Mike_E (Sep 11, 2008)

Hi, if I may, you didn't mention the size space you will be using mostly.

On the occasions I need a larger space for 12 people and up I have a conference room in a nearby motel that I rent.   I worked out a good deal with the manager for discounts for herself and her employees. And she likes the advertising as well.

As to lighting, Please take a look at using reflected and diffused light. I really like using a 4X6 foot frame with white satin/nylon (any shiny white cloth will do) with a flash bounced of of it towards my subjects. You can get it close and it's very soft.

If you only have one flash then you can glue some aluminum foil to some foam-core and place it above and behind for a hair-light/kicker.  I say aluminum because the silver gives a harder shine and I like more specularity in the hair.

You can also use the same frames and stretch some thin nylon over it and fire the flash through it for much the same effect- it takes a little more room though. Shooting through does have an added benefit of giving the ability of hardening or softening the light depending on how close or far away you place the flash.

Using one of each will give the face a nice soft light and the reflector will give a nice fill for a rounded effect. Be sure to bring which ever you use as a main as far forward as you can to wrap the light further around the face.  If you get spillage onto your back drop from your diffusion panel then you can flag it or use it as you like.

Take a look here..   http://www.studiolighting.net/homemade-diffusion-panel-instructions/
Also tinkertubes   http://www.software-cinema.com/page/tinkertubes (gives you an idea how to put things together.

There is a wealth of information out there you just have to dig.  

Google is you friend!  (tip- every time you find a new term, Google it or note it and Google it later.)

Best of luck

mike


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## maverickphoto (Sep 12, 2008)

great info guys thanks


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## Village Idiot (Sep 12, 2008)

Mike - a window shade from Walmart works good, folds up, and might last a bit longer than the foam core and aluminum. All for under $5.


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## Mike_E (Sep 12, 2008)

Village Idiot said:


> Mike - a window shade from Walmart works good, folds up, and might last a bit longer than the foam core and aluminum. All for under $5.



It is a lot easier to use but wears out and isn't as reflective.  If you are using flash then every bit counts as you get further out from the flash.  You can also bend it (and tie it with a string) to concentrate or further diffuse as you like.


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## CharlesSmithPhoto (Sep 12, 2008)

I would suggest getting a pair of 580's, a cheap stand, and a few reflectors. You are going to need the flashes one day anyway.


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## Brian Austin (Sep 12, 2008)

Village Idiot said:


> Brick & Mortar have to be some of the worst places to shop for cameras at. One of the bigger local ones wanted to charge me $2100 for the Canon 70-200 f/2.8L IS. I saved $500 from purchasing from B&H.


 
LOL.  B&H is a brick & mortar store...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/find/HelpCenter/NYSuperStore.jsp

But I know what you mean.  I do choose to spend a bit more locally (it wasn't $2,100 for my 70-200 but another $150 over B&H) but I get quality service, the opportunity to try out different equipment, and first name friendly help when I walk in the door.


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