# Finally dipping my Feet into artificial lighting - SB600 or something else?



## Raj_55555

I have been volunteering at a street dog shelter on a regular basis since a few months. I was recently asked by the person who takes care of the entire shelter whether some of my friends can come with their camera and do a photoshoot of the dogs/puppies thus making it easier to find a home for them.

I offered them my camera & skills instead, and this gave me the perfect excuse to dwelve into the world of artificial lighting. 

My plan is to spend on a 50mm f1.8 and a SB600 for the sessions, and maybe a white sheet of somekind. I'm a total noob at photoshoots & flashes, so any suggestion regarding cheaper/better flash options, and how to go about it would be appreciated. Thanks in advance folks, excited to finally have an opportunity to get into more advanced lighting setups than natural lights!


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## Designer

The 50mm would be nice to have, but for flash photography you simply don't need it.  If you can afford the SB-600, it will serve you well.  Learn to bounce the flash rather than aim the flash directly at your subject.  A sheet might work for a backdrop, but any wrinkles will show in the photographs.  A sheet would also work well as the reflector for the flash.  Or nearly anything that is large and white.  Set up a small stage for posing the animals.  Practically any plain surface would work for the backdrop.  Arrange the reflector just to one side of your camera, and swivel the flash head to aim toward the reflector.


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## goooner

I got a good SB 800 for less than a new SB600. I got a very good Metz for very cheap, and they both work well with the built in Nikon flash trigger.


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## jaomul

Can you use flashes on dogs without driving them mad? Maybe

Normally when using flash you'd step your lens down to f8 ish, so even a cheap lens can be a very capable lens when introducing flash.

Do your wallet a favour and check out yongnuo yn 568 flashes before you spend on nikons own


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## Stradawhovious

My recommendation would be to get the light source OFF the camera in this situation, which opens you up to another set of options entirely.

I'm really quite fond of this setup...

http://www.amazon.com/YN560-TX-Wireless-Controller-Speedlite-Diffuser/dp/B019IOAY18?ie=UTF8&keywords=yn560 iv trigger&qid=1465302760&ref_=sr_1_31&sr=8-31

The diffuser in this package is useless, but you're likely not paying for it (throwaway add-on) and with the speedlight, a stand, an umbrella and a backdrop setup you are not spending much more than the SB600.

That trigger, although big, doesn't get in the way much, and easily allows for fine adjustment of your light source from the camera.  It will also allow for expansion in the future by letting you control as many of these speedlights as you want, in up to 6 different groups, right from the camera.  It's true that this speedlight won't offer TTL with your camera, but in this situation it wouldn't be necessary.

Couple this with a couple sheets of white cardboard for bouncing and you're off to the races with a pretty danged versatile setup for not a lot of money.


Now, if you're just looking for an excuse to get an all purpose speedlight, then the SB600 is a fine choice.  If you're looking for a setup specific to this situation, I would highly consider an off camera solution like this one.


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## Stradawhovious

jaomul said:


> Can you use flashes on dogs without driving them mad? Maybe



Yes.

As long as they are comfortable, I haven't had any problem with it.  I've had several different dogs in a studio situation, and none of them (so far) have had an issue with the lighting.


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## tirediron

Stradawhovious said:


> jaomul said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you use flashes on dogs without driving them mad? Maybe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.
> 
> As long as they are comfortable, I haven't had any problem with it.  I've had several different dogs in a studio situation, and none of them (so far) have had an issue with the lighting.
Click to expand...

Nor I and for the last five + years, I've been doing a large 'Pets with Santa' shoot every December; over the course of the weekend, we typically do about 200 sessions, so.... rough math, 1000 session give or take, not one issue.  This does also add to the reasons for getting the flash off of the camera however as the animals will (should) be looking at you, so if the speedlight is off to the side, then they're NOT looking directly at it.


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## table1349

I will only add this: Strobist


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## Raj_55555

Designer said:


> The 50mm would be nice to have, but for flash photography you simply don't need it.  If you can afford the SB-600, it will serve you well.  Learn to bounce the flash rather than aim the flash directly at your subject.  A sheet might work for a backdrop, but any wrinkles will show in the photographs.  A sheet would also work well as the reflector for the flash.  Or nearly anything that is large and white.  Set up a small stage for posing the animals.  Practically any plain surface would work for the backdrop.  Arrange the reflector just to one side of your camera, and swivel the flash head to aim toward the reflector.


That was what I was thinking, but wonder how much of it I can really do.. I have the advantage of trying and trying again though! 
The reason I was going for the 50 mm though, wasn't for low light abilities but the depth of field. I doubt my kit lens would get me many good portraits at f4, and my 70-300 VR would be a little too long for this kind of scenario..

I can very well afford an SB-600, the problem though, I just realized it's not in stock on any of the major e-commerce websites.. SB700 is a touch too much for my needs!



goooner said:


> I got a good SB 800 for less than a new SB600. I got a very good Metz for very cheap, and they both work well with the built in Nikon flash trigger.


Another one not readily available here, may be I should check out the physical stores tomorrow. Thanks Gooner!



jaomul said:


> Can you use flashes on dogs without driving them mad? Maybe
> 
> Normally when using flash you'd step your lens down to f8 ish, so even a cheap lens can be a very capable lens when introducing flash.
> Do your wallet a favour and check out yongnuo yn 568 flashes before you spend on nikons own


I've been around dogs my entire life, so even if one seemed disturbed by it I'd probably know and avoid using it with that one in particular. 
As I said to Designer, if I'm at f8 - getting a thin depth of field would be impossible. How do you get a decent portrait, keep in mind I've never tried this so might be missing something very obvious here.
yongnuo yn 568 might be the one I have to go for, considering sb600 isn't available anywhere! 



gryphonslair99 said:


> I will only add this: Strobist


Yes, I did come across that blog in the past and know it to be very useful. Unfortunately, the flash recommended by the blog (Lumopro LP180) isn't available anywhere as well.. Maybe I should consider buying from the amazon US website, let's see. Thank you!


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## Raj_55555

Stradawhovious said:


> My recommendation would be to get the light source OFF the camera in this situation, which opens you up to another set of options entirely.
> 
> I'm really quite fond of this setup...
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/YN560-TX-Wireless-Controller-Speedlite-Diffuser/dp/B019IOAY18?ie=UTF8&keywords=yn560 iv trigger&qid=1465302760&ref_=sr_1_31&sr=8-31
> 
> The diffuser in this package is useless, but you're likely not paying for it (throwaway add-on) and with the speedlight, a stand, an umbrella and a backdrop setup you are not spending much more than the SB600.
> 
> That trigger, although big, doesn't get in the way much


THIS is probably what I'd do, although I am clueless on what a trigger means in this context as of now, considering the only SB600 I could find here costs 900 US$ I'm better off with something along the line of your suggestion. Your input was very useful, thank you! I will have to look up the difference b/w TTL & it's alternatives as well.. Another day given to the research quota.


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## JustJazzie

A sheet might be a pain for pet portraits since it's a hair magnet! I would look into polystyrene boards like Sue Bruce uses for her portraits if you can find them there.


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## Trever1t

+2 for SB-800. I personally own 4


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## jaomul

On the dof thing, generally, not always, but the idea of a backdrop is to have what you want behind your subject, and narrow dof is less important in this scenario


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## Designer

Raj_55555 said:


> The reason I was going for the 50 mm though, wasn't for low light abilities but the depth of field. I doubt my kit lens would get me many good portraits at f4, and my 70-300 VR would be a little too long for this kind of scenario..


First; my flash recommendation; since I have a Nikon SB-910, and love it!, that would be the best, but here is one that hints that it is a knock-off of the SB-910:

Amazon.com : Meike® MK-910 MK910 i-TTL iTTL Flash Speedlight 1/8000s for Nikon Camera : Camera & Photo

See if you can get that one in India.

Now to the issue of DOF.

If you attempt a very thin DOF, you may find that part of your subject is not in good focus, so much better to do the calculations to find out.

Visiting DOF Master, I ran the numbers for each lens in turn.  First the 50mm.  I used lens-to-subject distance as 6 feet, although if you were at 8 feet, it would be better.  




 

Then the 70mm lens:



 

finally, I changed the distance to 10 feet:



 

Read the "total" DOF in feet for each one, and you will find that the 50mm has only 1.38 feet, which might work, but that is not very deep, and you don't own that lens yet.

Now with your present lens set to 70mm, we see that the DOF is only 0.69 feet which is mere inches deep.  Much too thin, IMO, but at least that is how you can throw the background out of focus.

But step back a few feet to 10 feet, and you find that the DOF is back to a reasonable (but still fairly thin) 1.96 feet.  You can still throw the BG out of focus with that lens, and maybe get a portrait with less distortion over the 50mm to boot.

I say use your present lens, get the Meike 910 flash, and scrounge up some largish white board like poster board or "foamcore".


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## KmH

Light is light.
None of it is artificial.


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## JonA_CT

To add to the depth of field post above -- I find myself shooting pictures of my dog around F8.0 anyways, because with his snout, I can't get a sharp picture nose-to-ears unless I do..


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## Stradawhovious

JonA_CT said:


> To add to the depth of field post above -- I find myself shooting pictures of my dog around F8.0 anyways, because with his snout, I can't get a sharp picture nose-to-ears unless I do..



Many of my dog portraits are shot at f/11... same reason.  

Shooting wide for DOF isn't important in this situation, getting the shot you want is.  You want the whole head of the dog in focus, and still blow out your background?  Easy.  Shoot a long focal length, get close to your subject, and get some distance between the subject ant the backdrop...  BAM!  In focus from the tip of the snout to the back of the ears, and the backdrop is nice and blurry.


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## Braineack

85mm, f/11
not entirely in focus.




Ruby by The Braineack, on Flickr




Max by The Braineack, on Flickr


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## table1349

Raj_55555 said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will only add this: Strobist
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I did come across that blog in the past and know it to be very useful. Unfortunately, the flash recommended by the blog (Lumopro LP180) isn't available anywhere as well.. Maybe I should consider buying from the amazon US website, let's see. Thank you!
Click to expand...

The strobe recommended was for price/power purposes.  Cheap with decent power.  You can follow the methods and recommendations with any strobe.  I use two 580's and 4 sunpak 383's.  No longer made either.  Works just fine.


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## Raj_55555

Trever1t said:


> +2 for SB-800. I personally own 4


 A bit beyond my budget I'm afraid! 



jaomul said:


> On the dof thing, generally, not always, but the idea of a backdrop is to have what you want behind your subject, and narrow dof is less important in this scenario


Thanks Jaomul, this saves me a few bucks on the 50mm lens 


Designer said:


> I say use your present lens, get the Meike 910 flash, and scrounge up some largish white board like poster board or "foamcore".


As always, your post is spot on! Not only does it answer all my questions, your last line helped me decide my next course of action. I'm getting a meike 910!  Thanks for dof lessons too 


JonA_CT said:


> because with his snout, I can't get a sharp picture nose-to-ears unless I do..


 Another thing to consider, no 50mm now then 


Stradawhovious said:


> Many of my dog portraits are shot at f/11... same reason.
> Shooting wide for DOF isn't important in this situation, getting the shot you want is.  You want the whole head of the dog in focus, and still blow out your background?  Easy.  Shoot a long focal length, get close to your subject, and get some distance between the subject ant the backdrop...  BAM!  In focus from the tip of the snout to the back of the ears, and the backdrop is nice and blurry.


Makes Sense to me, and that's what I'm going to be doing! 


Braineack said:


> 85mm, f/11
> not entirely in focus.


And yet more reasons for me to not invest on faster aperture for this.. Beautiful dogs I'll add!


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## Braineack

Raj_55555 said:


> And yet more reasons for me to not invest on faster aperture for this.. Beautiful dogs I'll add!


yeah, but i still wanna sell you my 50mm 1.8G...


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## Raj_55555

An interesting find! 
Kris ( @coastalconn ) any suggestions based on your experience with the meike 910? Do you still have it, or did last less than a month! 

Also have to look up whether it'll work off camera with the Nikon D7000..


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## coastalconn

Raj_55555 said:


> An interesting find!
> Kris ( @coastalconn ) any suggestions based on your experience with the meike 910? Do you still have it, or did last less than a month!
> 
> Also have to look up whether it'll work off camera with the Nikon D7000..



I had purchased a second one before I switched to Canon.  My friend has them now and they still work just fine he added some YN triggers to them for off camera and they work great still...  And they do work with CLS and using the camera as a commander..


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## Raj_55555

coastalconn said:


> Raj_55555 said:
> 
> 
> 
> An interesting find!
> Kris ( @coastalconn ) any suggestions based on your experience with the meike 910? Do you still have it, or did last less than a month!
> 
> Also have to look up whether it'll work off camera with the Nikon D7000..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had purchased a second one before I switched to Canon.  My friend has them now and they still work just fine he added some YN triggers to them for off camera and they work great still...  And they do work with CLS and using the camera as a commander..
Click to expand...

That seals the deal, getting one! Thanks everyone..


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## coastalconn

Raj_55555 said:


> coastalconn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Raj_55555 said:
> 
> 
> 
> An interesting find!
> Kris ( @coastalconn ) any suggestions based on your experience with the meike 910? Do you still have it, or did last less than a month!
> 
> Also have to look up whether it'll work off camera with the Nikon D7000..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had purchased a second one before I switched to Canon.  My friend has them now and they still work just fine he added some YN triggers to them for off camera and they work great still...  And they do work with CLS and using the camera as a commander..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That seals the deal, getting one! Thanks everyone..
Click to expand...

The only negative I remembered was the second one would eat batteries if you left them in the flash. Even if it was turned off. I also just noticed a note on Amazon saying they don't work if you have red-eye reduction turned on in the camera. But overall for the price they perform very well!


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