# Pinup Attempt - C&C Please!



## DGMPhotography (May 17, 2018)

I did a pinup style shoot with my friend, Kelsey, recently, and would love some feedback it. I've got two versions here (one with the extra bit of hair masked out because I wasn't sure which I preferred), but they're basically the same. 


  

Thanks!


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## tirediron (May 17, 2018)

Not bad; a perfect model for this sort of image.  A couple of thoughts:  (1)  I'd like to see her looking at me; maybe have her hold the drink more toward the camera and look at the viewer over that?  (2)  She seems a bit "flashed"; I think your strobes could have been knocked down a half-stop.


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## DGMPhotography (May 17, 2018)

tirediron said:


> Not bad; a perfect model for this sort of image.  A couple of thoughts:  (1)  I'd like to see her looking at me; maybe have her hold the drink more toward the camera and look at the viewer over that?  (2)  She seems a bit "flashed"; I think your strobes could have been knocked down a half-stop.



I was going for the flat lighting look - low contrast. But maybe that didn't come across as well as I hoped.


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## Derrel (May 17, 2018)

The lighting is definitely low in contrast, but it's not that bad. My main complaint is the one that Ti.  voiced above, that her line of gaze is not directed at the viewer.


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## DanOstergren (May 17, 2018)

The lighting is ok, but could be improved a bit by putting it at a slightly higher angle just so it gives her features a little more shape. I don't feel that the orange background really harmonizes with her or helps express the overall feeling of the shot, and fights with the model for attention. Perhaps a baby blue background would tie all of the small details together by harmonizing with her skin tones, the swimwear, the straw, and the cherry, and the contrast between the colors and her skin would make her pop out and have a more impactful presence in the shot. If she were wearing a green swimsuit and maybe had a mint milkshake it would work really well with the orange backdrop. I also feel that the shot lacks contrast, but would only really need a slight increase to give it the contrast it needs. 

I think you made the right decision in editing the hair, and overall the exposure is good.


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## DGMPhotography (May 18, 2018)

Low contrast was the point... for those who missed that. 

Thanks for the feedback y’all.


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## smoke665 (May 18, 2018)

As a child of the 50's we didn't have internet to satisfy our boyish curiosity, so the greats like Vargas, Moran, Frahm and Mozert, these were our glimpses of the secrets hidden within. I think I understand what you were going for, in that their early works had a certain softness to them, an almost dream like quality. I'm not sure I'd call it low contrast, Google Alberto Vargas and you'll see what I mean. One other thing is that they were masters of color schemes, they didn't always use white backgrounds but when they didn't you could bet everything was planned to enhance the image. In your image, I'm wondering if a change of background color might help. Lastly the pose, nothing finer than a long legged beauty in a Zoe Mozert painting, again she had such a take on HOW to pose the female form so that the sexuality jumped off the page, without being gaudy or crude. In your image it's slightly awkward, I'm betting she has nice legs, but you cut them off, and the way she is bent forward seems forced. Again from an old pinup fan, it's about the whole package that make them great.


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## vintagesnaps (May 18, 2018)

That orange background isn't doing her any favors. I agree, the stance seems awkward; I couldn't help but wonder why she's looking down at that faux milkshake (maybe it's real but it looks too white to be vanilla). 

And the hair... have the model bring comb/brush/mirror; when a woman moves, the hair moves and needs to periodically be combed/arranged. (When I was a kid they always gave us a comb, that's probably why! lol) Look at the bangs; they've fallen forward so there are odd spaces between the bangs and the rest of the hair, and wisps out of place; there's a section of hair that's over the ear that looks like it should be tucked behind the ear/under the hat. Take time to let her put on the hat and check her hair and style it (especially if she doesn't usually/often wear hats). She's cute as can be, but I see cute more than pinup. 

I'd suggest getting more practice in actually seeing what's there; I feel like what I often see is that details are being missed and it's not all fixable after the fact. I would say it's not that you don't have good ideas but the execution sometimes seems to fall short. It would probably be beneficial to work on bringing up your skill level and figure out how to work styling more into the shoots.


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## DGMPhotography (May 18, 2018)

Milkshake is real.


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## DanOstergren (May 18, 2018)

DGMPhotography said:


> Low contrast was the point... for those who missed that.
> 
> Thanks for the feedback y’all.


I didn't miss it, I was pointing it out as a drawback to your photograph. I never understand why you ask for feedback, because 99% of the time you respond to it with a level of disrespect and defensiveness. Just stop asking for it if you don't want to hear it.


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## DanOstergren (May 18, 2018)

DGMPhotography said:


> Milkshake is real.


A good alternative that wont melt is mashed potatoes and food dye.


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## Derrel (May 18, 2018)

smoke665 said:


> As a child of the 50's we didn't have internet to satisfy our boyish curiosity, so the greats like Vargas, Moran, Frahm and Mozert, these were our glimpses of the secrets hidden within. I think I understand what you were going for, in that their early works had a certain softness to them, an almost dream like quality. I'm not sure I'd call it low contrast, Google Alberto Vargas and you'll see what I mean. One other thing is that they were masters of color schemes, they didn't always use white backgrounds but when they didn't you could bet everything was planned to enhance the image. In your image, I'm wondering if a change of background color might help. Lastly the pose, nothing finer than a long legged beauty in a Zoe Mozert painting, again she had such a take on HOW to pose the female form so that the sexuality jumped off the page, without being gaudy or crude. In your image it's slightly awkward, I'm betting she has nice legs, but you cut them off, and the way she is bent forward seems forced. Again from an old pinup fan, it's about the whole package that make them great.



Google search for Vargas Pinup + Swimwear. Link is NOT SAFE for Work!!!

NSFW Link:Vargas Girls and Pin up girls


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## DGMPhotography (May 18, 2018)

DanOstergren said:


> DGMPhotography said:
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> > Low contrast was the point... for those who missed that.
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Not sure why you keep saying that. I don’t recall being disrespectful in this thread at all. Just wanted to make sure everyone understood the intentions of this photo.  But if the way I respond to things offends you so much, feel free to block me and save us both some time.


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## smoke665 (May 18, 2018)

Derrel said:


> Google search for Vargas Pinup + Swimwear. Link is NOT SAFE for Work!!!



Well duh, why do you think me and my teenage friends of that era found his work so fascinating?  

Even before I knew Zoe Mozert was a woman I realized something different in her work. It was more real,  more representative of the realistic woman and less idealistic. Oh and she also did some pretty faantastic NSFW work as well.


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## DanOstergren (May 18, 2018)

DGMPhotography said:


> DanOstergren said:
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I'm just letting you know how your words come across 99% of the time that you respond to criticism from your peers on this site, and it's clear I'm not the only one who shares that sentiment. It's your choice to take feedback in and reflect on it, or be defensive about it like you are most of the time whenever you receive feedback that you asked for. It's no sweat off my back and I have no reason to block you.


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## DGMPhotography (May 19, 2018)

DanOstergren said:


> DGMPhotography said:
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The problem is I think you're reading too much into things. I believe critique is a two way street. I'm open to opinions, but I also like sharing why I do things and seeing if people can convince me otherwise, or I them. You may take it as disrespect, but that is not the intention. I just prefer to have a conversation as opposed to just taking what anyone says as absolute truth. 

I don't like your "my way or the highway" attitude. Just because you have a preference for something you think looks better, doesn't mean it's right, and I think you deserve to be called out on that. You've acted like this with me, but also several other people I've seen.

Several times on this forum, I have had conversations where half the people in a thread will agree with my creative decisions, while the other half will swear they are objectively wrong. 

There have also been many occasions that after a good discussion, the critic will make an excellent point and swing me to their side. Or I, them. But if you want to limit that discussion, then there is not room for that growth.

In this thread, specifically, I have taken the critique from John to heart (about the "flashed" look), and although Sharon is harsh, I agree with her that I need to get better at attention to detail. However, the amount of contrast for this shot was a creative decision, not a technical error, and that's why I spoke up.

Being defensive is saying, "you're wrong, I'm right," which I admit I used to do often in my early days on the forums. Now my response is usually, "thank you for your feedback - I did this because of this." And then it continues based on the conversation. I implore you to have a more open mind in dealing with different people and the way they best receive critique.


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## DanOstergren (May 19, 2018)

DGMPhotography said:


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The thing is, you asked for the criticism. You even agreed with someone else when they pointed out the same issue. You said "I was going for the flat lighting look - low contrast. But maybe that didn't come across as well as I hoped", and my intent was to reinforce that idea that it could use more contrast. So when you replied to me with a condescending "in case you missed it" response, rather than trying to have any sort of conversation about it, it comes across to me as a "my way or the highway" response that limits conversation, just like what you tried accusing me of doing. So I apologize if I misunderstood you based on that.


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## DGMPhotography (May 20, 2018)

DanOstergren said:


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One, never said I was referring to you (I didn’t reply to you) and two, not sure how “in case you missed it” is condescending.


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## Granddad (May 20, 2018)

Peace guys! I enjoy both your work hugely. Dan, DGM HAS mellowed a lot.   (one each).


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## DGMPhotography (May 20, 2018)

Grandad to the rescue.


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## Rick Waldroup (May 20, 2018)

That's what granddads are for.


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## AlanKlein (May 20, 2018)

How about a caption?: "If you bring a straw, I'd be willing to share."


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## Parker219 (May 20, 2018)

What was the purpose / main goal if this photo session?

A photo to add to your portfolio? A modeling photo for her? A milkshake ad? An orange background shoutout? 

Before I can give my c&c, I need to know what the photo will be used for.


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## Vtec44 (May 21, 2018)

It needs a bit of contrast! 

I'm totally kidding!   I don't photograph this style so I don't have much to say.  It looks fun


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## DGMPhotography (May 22, 2018)

Changed the color, and some other minor changes. Orange looked good to me at first (for some reason), but I think the pink works a lot better.


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## texxter (May 22, 2018)

I am no expert or even knowledgeable about pinup photography so I have little to say.  

I'd concur, however,  with the comment above that showing her legs with high heels, a more curvy pose and an inviting gaze to the viewer may raise the temperature of the image and make it fit better into the genre.  Also, she has pretty hair and that hat is not very.... pinup?  Something more feminine or just a colorful head scarf may again connect with the genre strongly, if that's what you were going after.  Thanks for sharing!


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## DGMPhotography (May 22, 2018)

texxter said:


> I am no expert or even knowledgeable about pinup photography so I have little to say.
> 
> I'd concur, however,  with the comment above that showing her legs with high heels, a more curvy pose and an inviting gaze to the viewer may raise the temperature of the image and make it fit better into the genre.  Also, she has pretty hair and that hat is not very.... pinup?  Something more feminine or just a colorful head scarf may again connect with the genre strongly, if that's what you were going after.  Thanks for sharing!



Thanks for the feedback. 

I think we might have different impressions of what "pinup" is.


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## texxter (May 22, 2018)

DGMPhotography said:


> I think we might have different impressions of what "pinup" is.



As I said, I am completely ignorant about pin up photography, so I went to Google and searched for  "pin up photography" images and got 100+ images, all of which seem to have this in common: (1) legs, (2) smiling at the viewer, (3) pretty hair with flowers or band, (5) sexy.   

But whatever.  Good luck with your pin up photography.


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## DGMPhotography (May 23, 2018)

texxter said:


> DGMPhotography said:
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What's number 4? haha. 

I typically don't show below the knee with my standing shots. I just don't like having the image being that tall. But maybe I should try going outside my comfort zone in that regard. I have some other photos that show the full body and may suit your definition of pin up better. Stay tuned!


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## birdbonkers84 (May 23, 2018)

DGMPhotography said:


> texxter said:
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What's your definition of "pinup"? 

Because it doesn't take a genius to do a bit of R&D with google search to find googles definition is different from yours...


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## DGMPhotography (May 23, 2018)

birdbonkers84 said:


> DGMPhotography said:
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A picture you would "pin up" to the wall has always been my understanding of the phrase. Which, I admit, makes the term applicable to a lot of things.


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## Fujidave (May 23, 2018)

I am not an expert at this, but my take on pin up photography is like one I had as a little boy.  It was a pin up of Betty Grable in a swimsuit, looking back over her shoulder at the camera smiling.


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## texxter (May 23, 2018)

DGMPhotography said:


> I have some other photos that show the full body and may suit your definition of pin up better. Stay tuned!



Please spare me.  Every time you post a response to this thread my interest in providing you with the requested C&C decreases.  Please carry on and good luck.


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## DGMPhotography (May 23, 2018)

texxter said:


> DGMPhotography said:
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That's pretty rude, but okay. Whatever floats your boat, man.


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