# Why do people over value their film gear



## Jay Vee (Nov 14, 2014)

This past week I've been scouring the local craiglist looking for legacy minolta lenses to try. What I noticed was a lot of people are over valuing their stuff. I understand that many people still like or prefer to shoot in film and there's nothing wrong with that. And there are rare stuff that are desired by collectors and will warrant a higher value. But I'm seeing people with run of the mill srt101s, x-700s, 7000..ect going for $100+. Some even $200+ with 2 or 3 lenses worth about $10 ea. Even saw a P&S that you get in those blister packs that sold new with a roll of film for $20 but still asking for $10 used. Lol

Everyone is free to price their stuff at whatever price they want but if you truly want to get it sold you should be a lot more reasonable.


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## astroNikon (Nov 14, 2014)

It's vintage and rare .. therefore it must be worth more.
versus .. it's old and no one uses the stuff anymore and thus the price is very low

and if there's any emotional attachment what-so-ever the price is normally through the roof irregardless of it's true market value.


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## photoguy99 (Nov 14, 2014)

It's not worth my while to sell an old film camera for $25. If that's all it's worth, I'll keep it.

I might put it out there for a $100, even if it's not worth that, to see if I get a bite.


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## Designer (Nov 14, 2014)

Make me an offer.


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## vintagesnaps (Nov 14, 2014)

I don't know, why does the same seller on various sites list the same item anywhere from double the going price to hundreds of dollars when you can find it plenty of places for 12 bucks?

Try a reputable seller like KEH, or Columbus Camera Group or Pittsburgh Camera Exchange. Or a camera swap if there's one in your area.


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## Derrel (Nov 14, 2014)

Hey...I have a nice Bronica medium format rollfilm outfit I'll sell!!! $3,500 for the whole lot of it! Two bodies, 50,65, two 80mm's, a 150mm, meter prism, two wait-level prisms, bunch of film backs with inserts!!!


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## astroNikon (Nov 14, 2014)

Derrel said:


> Hey...I have a nice Bronica medium format rollfilm outfit I'll sell!!! $3,500 for the whole lot of it! Two bodies, 50,65, two 80mm's, a 150mm, meter prism, two wait-level prisms, bunch of film backs with inserts!!!


I know you messed up the decimal place.  But I'll give you $35 bucks ...


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## 480sparky (Nov 14, 2014)

I can't figure out why some people get their panties in a bunch over trivial stuff like this.

If they say their 1972 camera is worth $500, so be it.  Live and let live.  Who am I to say otherwise?

Instead of worrying about piddly stuff like this, go out the shoot something.


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## Overread (Nov 14, 2014)

It's hard to appreciate (especially if you weren't into photography before the digital revolution) just how massively the digital change crashed the film camera market. Almost overnight film gear depreciated in value by a colossal amount as the market flooded with it as everyone jumped into digital.

Many people don't keep up with the world in the same way - they have their hobby and buy their stuff at the local shop so they are not necessarily aware of the second hand price of many things - nor do they have the resources (or inclination) to look for the selling prices. So they price things at what they think is fair based on how long they've owned it-  how much it cost them and how well they've kept it.

It's a pretty fair way to price second hand goods - the problem is when the market is flooded and when the market isn't all that interested. At present your common film gear is very low value - almost insanely low. It's a bitter pill to take for many and a shock for others.


I suspect this explains why many price what we feel are way over the top prices.
.



The other is that they don't really want to sell. They might feel an obligation (hard times - not used it in ages - complaining significant other - etc...) but they don't really want to. So they put it up at a high price and don't expect to sell it. IF it does then hey they get way more than its "worth" and can replace it like for like or get something really good that's significantly better. If it doesn't sell then they've lost nothing.


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## Designer (Nov 14, 2014)

Ah SEE the LIGHT  !!!!

Mine is now free to a good home.  

Prospective recipients must write a three-page essay on why they deserve my largess and what they intend to do with the gift.


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## runnah (Nov 14, 2014)

Every flea market I have been to has the "box o cameras". Most are junk but there is often a winner.


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## Derrel (Nov 14, 2014)

runnah said:
			
		

> Every flea market I have been to has the "box o cameras". Most are junk but there is often a winner.



And just as often there is "that one guy", a very non-photo-oriented seller, always, the one guy who has some old Polaroid 100-series camera ( the 1960's and 1970's models, ones with a bellows) who seems confused, and somehow equates a bellows-style Polaroid with a view camera or press camera, and has the thing priced ridiculously high!

What's shocking is the collapse of film camera values that overread mentioned. In 2008, I bought a Bronica SQ-Ai with the 50mm f/4 Zenzanon Pro Series lens, 80mm lens, waist-level finder and a magazine for $299. Now, in the early 1990s when I was putting together a medium format wedding kit for Bronica, the 50mm PS lens was, as I recall, $1,995 mail-ordered from New York, and MORE at "local retail" type pricing. So: what is a fair market value for a Bronica 50mm wide-angle Pro Series lens? Is it $2,000, less depreciation? Or is it say, $66, as part of the two-lens and complete camera kit that I snagged for under $300, sixteen years later?


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## runnah (Nov 14, 2014)

High number of cameras
low number of users
low amounts of film
Low number of places to process film

All that equals dirt cheap bodies and lenses.


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## astroNikon (Nov 14, 2014)

Derrel said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


$35 for all of it .. and you pay shipping  lmao


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## cgw (Nov 14, 2014)

My sense is that some variant of Gresham's Law explains why over-priced schlock has driven quality film gear off the market. Compared to 5-8 years ago when eBay was awash in true bargains in almost anything connected with film, pickins are relatively slim now, especially for high-end film gear. Agree that the quotient of older, mid-range andlower stuff--much of it utter crap--is high now and that clueless sellers certain that pasting "vintage" on anything photographic equals "ka-ching" are the norm. I find I have to look harder, wait longer, and walk away more often from crooks than ever before to get what I want.


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## Designer (Nov 14, 2014)

Still free.  Send essay.


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## compur (Nov 14, 2014)

Tell me about it!  I run into this on a daily basis as I buy lots of used film gear.

It usually goes like this:

Somebody wants to sell Dad's old film gear so they look up on eBay for the same stuff and they look at the highest asking prices and decide that is what their stuff must be "worth." Never mind that the high eBay prices (asking or selling) are for mint equipment that is guaranteed working (and still overpriced) and their stuff looks like it's been through a war and they have no clue if it works at all! And, there is no telling them any different. If you try to explain the realities of older gear they will assume you are trying to "rip them off."

And, with Leica gear --- OMG! --- it becomes astronomically silly! ...
I recently bought some Leica equipment and the seller (who never used any serious film gear) was convinced that a particular 180mm lens she had was "worth" $6,000 yet even on eBay they commonly sold for about $300. In this case they had confused the 180mm APO lens for their more common 180mm Elmarit. This is just one tiny example.

They always seem to create their "value delusions" toward the highest price they can find that seems (to them) to describe what they have. And, they are clueless about the importance of condition. The innumerable fake TV shows (yes, they are mostly fake) about antiques and collectibles reinforce these misguided over-valued delusions. These shows have created a culture that believes that practically every thing they own, if is old, is worth a fortune and it is just plain nonsense. And, to boot, may of the things you see on these shows are not just "found" items as they are claimed to be. They often come from local dealers, collectors or even museums and are loaned to the show where they are falsely presented as "family heirlooms," found  items, etc. It's all made-up Hollywood BS and it plays a major part in the over-value mentality that is placed on all older items, including photo gear.


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## astroNikon (Nov 14, 2014)

I'm glad my Kodak 110 film camera is super rare and still worth $1100 like I saw on ebay


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## 480sparky (Nov 14, 2014)

astroNikon said:


> I'm glad my Kodak 110 film camera is super rare and still worth $1100 like I saw on ebay



Get it gold-plated and sell it for $25,000!


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## Josh66 (Nov 14, 2014)

compur said:


> They always seem to create their "value delusions" toward the highest price they can find that seems (to them) to describe what they have. And, they are clueless about the importance of condition. The innumerable fake TV shows (yes, they are mostly fake) about antiques and collectibles reinforce these misguided over-valued delusions. These shows have created a culture that believes that practically every thing they own, if is old, is worth a fortune and it is just plain nonsense. And, to boot, may of the things you see on these shows are not just "found" items as they are claimed to be. They often come from local dealers, collectors or even museums and are loaned to the show where they are falsely presented as "family heirlooms," found  items, etc. It's all made-up Hollywood BS and it plays a major part in the over-value mentality that is placed on all older items, including photo gear.


We had a yard sale recently, and I saw what I would consider a result of this mentality.  On the one hand, you have the people that think their stuff is still worth what they paid for it (or maybe even more than that) - but on the other hand, you have people that expect to get _good stuff_ basically for free.  They see these guys on shows like American Pickers and think that you can just walk up to a yard sale or something and get something for nothing.

I had a guy say my price was too high for this one item (I had already heavily discounted it - more than I I was comfortable with), so I told him, "Well, that's the price."  He went home, looked it up online, saw that I was only asking a quarter of what it was worth, and then asked for half of that.  I said no thanks, of course.


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## Josh66 (Nov 14, 2014)

I was selling a hi-lift jack, BTW (near perfect condition).  It sells for $80 just for the jack- I was asking $40, which included a ton of accessories, which separately are worth more than the jack itself.  The chain and hooks I had with it were easily worth $40.

The guy actually said, "Yeah, it's a good deal, but that's a lot for something you're giving away."  Hey, dumbass, I'm not "giving it away"!  If you want to buy it, I'll give it to you for a steal, but I'm not going to "give it away".  I still have it.  Didn't really want to sell it anyway, but I would have if somebody was willing to pay a fair price for it.

Some stuff we were pretty much giving away (25 cents per item on clothing - some of which were never worn), but $40 for about $200 worth of 'stuff' was not asking a lot, IMO.


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## limr (Nov 14, 2014)

Designer said:


> Still free.  Send essay.



So what am I getting for free? Three pages is nothing for me


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## Torus34 (Nov 15, 2014)

The prices for film photo gear on EBay are a good example of a 'free' market.  Sellers can ask what they wish, and buyers can pay what they want.  The larger the market, the more sales will occur and thus there will be more information available as to the right price for an item.  In a flea market, by comparison, there may be only one of a particular item available and neither the seller nor prospective buyers may have prior knowledge as to the right price.

The right price is that reached by an informed seller and an informed buyer.  Perhaps, just perhaps, mind you, the world of used cameras would benefit from something similar to the Scott(r) catalogs of postage stamps.

And yes, folks will initially overvalue rather than undervalue stuff they wish to sell when entering a market in which bargaining will occur.  It's a logical and economically sound strategy.


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## Designer (Nov 15, 2014)

limr said:


> Designer said:
> 
> 
> > Still free.  Send essay.
> ...


My vastly-overpriced film camera, three exorbitantly-priced lenses and a FREE electronic flash.  It is listed on the buy and sell forum at an extremely over-valued asking price.  Minolta Maxxum 7000 two zooms and a 50 prime.


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## Braineack (Nov 15, 2014)

runnah said:


> High number of cameras
> low number of users
> low amounts of film
> Low number of places to process film
> ...



supply and demand?  who would have known.


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## usayit (Nov 15, 2014)

It's worth whatever someone else is willing to pay for it.....


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## Overread (Nov 15, 2014)

usayit said:


> It's worth whatever someone else is willing to pay for it.....



Which is often highly dependant on the market you're selling to,

I nabbed a Benbo mk1 tripod with cast and ballhead on Friday for around £30 - on ebay they go for around twice as much. 

Market stalls and such can give you really really amazing deals on things because there is often so much less market interest in specialist goods. Thus you can get things for far less than you could on places like Ebay where you get much larger specialist markets going for things.


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## Derrel (Nov 15, 2014)

Reminds me of this famous clip from the movie Trading Places!!!!






"In Philadelphia, it's worth* fifty bucks*!"


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## Iloper (Nov 16, 2014)

usayit said:


> It's worth whatever someone else is willing to pay for it.....


Exactly


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## Mike_E (Nov 16, 2014)

If you're willing to take a chance try shopgoodwill.com

Plenty of Minolta stuff over there at a great price, but you won't know the condition until you get it and there are no refunds.

I bought a Nikon N80 with a 28-80mm f3.3-5.6 for right around $15.  Turns out they were both pristeen.

I did cheat a little bit because I noticed a B+W filter on the lens and guessed that anybody that would put one of those on their camera would probably take care of it.


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## gsgary (Nov 17, 2014)

runnah said:


> High number of cameras
> low number of users
> low amounts of film
> Low number of places to process film
> ...


Maybe where you live, I have no problem getting film and there are plenty of places if you need to get it proccessed and also silver prints if you don't have a darkroom


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## cgw (Nov 17, 2014)

gsgary said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> > High number of cameras
> ...



Unfortunately, that's not always the case in the huge N. American market.The steady thinning of labs at all quality levels in the US and Canada is probably the surest index of the health of film photography.


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## runnah (Nov 17, 2014)

gsgary said:


> Maybe where you live, I have no problem getting film and there are plenty of places if you need to get it proccessed and also silver prints if you don't have a darkroom



Right but you also have cobblers and candlestick makers.

Nearest photo lab is 2 hrs away.


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## gsgary (Nov 17, 2014)

runnah said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe where you live, I have no problem getting film and there are plenty of places if you need to get it proccessed and also silver prints if you don't have a darkroom
> ...


We have lots of old crafts still going my friend is one of the top armourers in Europe


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## gsgary (Nov 17, 2014)

15 minutes walk from my house I can get a longbow made


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## photoguy99 (Nov 17, 2014)

The empire will rise again on the strength of that armor, excuse me, armour, and those loungbouwes.


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## dubiousone (Nov 22, 2014)

Derrel said:


> Reminds me of this famous clip from the movie Trading Places!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Good one Derrel, one of my favorites!
Something is worth what someone will pay. Asking prices on auction sites are just that. Some prices are ridiculously fair, others wildly outlandish. So are prices people will pay. On one auction site I saw a Nikkormat EL with two lenses go for well, what I'd say was insane money considering thrift stores have a somewhat spotty reputation; $652 was the last bid I saw. The same camera on Ebay is currently between $120+- and $300+ depending on lenses. On the same site there's a Minolta SRT101 with five lenses in a case which is currently at $352. Huh? My camera guy has several of these and I could duplicate that kit for less than $250. Bidding wars on auction sites are fun to watch; I've learned to laugh when I get outbid because invariably, a better, cleaner, with more 'stuff' deal will come along at a far smaller price and then the joke's on them! Of course, I reserve the right to do some egregious bidding myself...LOL.

But just WHY do certain people pay $200 for a Nikon FM10 which is the king of plasticky-plastic-cheezy cheap-o cameras? Or $400 for a D40 or a ten year old DSLR?

If it boggles the mind one has only to watch Pawnstars or American Pickers to see what rubes there are out there; people who think their stuff is worth a bundle and people who have no clue (Gee, I had no idea my pristine Honus Wagner baseball card was worth fifty bucks...I only paid ten for it at a yard sale so SOLD!!!) It sort of gripes me when some dude who has an item that can sell for $300 wants $290 and doesn't seem to understand the meaning of overhead but it sure is entertaining to watch some dunderhead shuffle out of the store with his prize possession knowing he's in for a really rough time trying to get what he THINKS the thing is worth. Too bad they don't have Pawnstars the Day After. That would be fun!

I remember drooling (literally) over Pentax and Nikon cameras back in the 70's and 'settling for less because I couldn't afford them. I now have those cameras and more at a fraction of what they sold for back then. My stable of DSLR's includes several models that originally sold for $2000 and I got them for a fraction of that (one was $499) My camera guy has bunches of these older film cameras and a 'kit' camera, a 50, a 28 and a tele lens often with a flash usually sell in the neighborhood of $150 so I laugh when I see bidding wars go through the roof.

Thrift stores can be hit or miss; in person you can see if the thing works or not but online...good luck. Even with the other auction sites there's plenty of people selling stuff "fresh out of dad's garage, have no idea if it works" and you pays your money and you takes your chances. I've gotten deals and not-so deals. You either open the box and go OOOHHH-AHHH or Hmm, ok, that's not too bad or....EEEWWWWW!

But here's a happy story;
My camera guy, who I lovingly refer to as my pusher got in this huge box of estate stuff. Of course I hung around and 'helped' sort, managed to pick up a couple of needed trinkets and after, he gives me a weird lens. Mamiya CS 135/2.8. These lenses only fit the NC1000 and ....well, it took me a few months but I finally scored one for $35 with a 50/1.7 lens because it really bugged me to have a lens and no camera to fit it on. Oh, those California people are so trusting...usually stuff I get at these places is so well packaged it would survive an elephant ride over the Burma Trail. No, these CA folks stick it in a teeny box with peanuts. One good drop and...toast. When I saw that I went eeewww...

Then I looked at it and saw the battery cover had green scunge growing out from under it....oohhh...eeewww!! At least I'm only out $35 bucks and maybe I can find some other dolt like me who needs that lens for HIS NC1000. I decide after all to at least take a look; the battery cover was broken BUT super glue fixed it. A little miracle sauce and brushing cleaned up the corrosion and...wait for it....hold the phones....the dang thing works!


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## Derrel (Nov 22, 2014)

Earlier this week on TPF a Mamiya 1000 (DTL?) with a 55mm lens and a Montgomery Wards 135mm lens and Montgomery Wards teleconverter kit, with "leather" camera bag (vinyl actually) and allegedly, leather cases for the accessories, was offered for sale at $220. It was mentioned as quote un-quote antique. My guess on the value of that kit would be $50, tops. EVEN THOUGH it was clean, and as stated from a smoke-free home. My guess, sight-unseen is that the lenses and TC were all fogged/hazed over internally from having been kept in a vinyl case for 40+ years; a lot of leather from the 1960's and 1970's era seems to out-gas pretty badly, and deposits that film on lens surfaces and even worse, INSIDE of lenses.


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## 480sparky (Nov 22, 2014)

Derrel said:


> ....... My guess on the value of that kit would be $50, tops...........



My thought was "Eh, 20 bucks, maybe 25."


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## Derrel (Nov 22, 2014)

480sparky said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> > ....... My guess on the value of that kit would be $50, tops...........
> ...



Yeah...I was trying to be wayyyyyy on the generous side...but yeah, at Goodwill here, 2-lens "dead brand" outfits like that go for $24.95, often in average condition. Mamiya has been dead for soooo long as a 35mm slr maker that the value of the old 500 and 1000-series cameras is mostly their hipster appeal. MOST ANY Mamiya 35mm SLR will not have been used heavily...their buyers just were not high volume film shooters.


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## gsgary (Nov 22, 2014)

I would get more than double the money for my film gear than I would for my digital gear


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## compur (Nov 23, 2014)

At an estate sale here last week there was some pretty nice old photo gear but the clueless people running the sale had ridiculous prices on the stuff. For example, a very tired Exakta VX with a very common lens had a price of $450! It wasn't worth a fourth of that.


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## limr (Nov 23, 2014)

And sometimes people undervalue their items considerably. My boyfriend got a Rolleiflex - in working condition, mind you, with only some cosmetic damage to it - for $25. With the intact leather case.


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## compur (Nov 25, 2014)

^ Right you are! Those are the ones I look for.


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## Alexr25 (Nov 26, 2014)

Derrel said:


> Earlier this week on TPF a Mamiya 1000 (DTL?) with a 55mm lens and a Montgomery Wards 135mm lens and Montgomery Wards teleconverter kit, with "leather" camera bag (vinyl actually) and allegedly, leather cases for the accessories, was offered for sale at $220.........................


Don't knock the Mamiya 1000, it was my first SLR, built like a brick. Well, the weight was the same and the ergonomics were not dissimilar.
Probably $220 is a bit steep but it must be worth at least $20 and that's just for its scrap metal value.


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## smithdan (Nov 26, 2014)

Like everyone says, seems to be no standard for pricing film stuff due probably to the limited demand.  That collectablend site is somewhat of a guide.  Think most folks including me buy stuff because they want it and pay whatever within reason.  Paid $30. for a Vitomatic  with a small lens scratch and a broken frame counter because it was "mom's camera" and I wanted another Voigtlander.  Works great otherwise. 





 Then you just can't pass these deals up..   Tokina 70 - 210 was another $25.  So it all averages out.


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## gsgary (Nov 26, 2014)

I was talking to Pixmedic via PM about his Konica with 57mmF1.2 lens and was it worth getting an adapter to use on his Oly 4/3rd, he thought about throwing it in the trash until i told him to search how valuable it was, they had been going for $700


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## Mike_E (Nov 27, 2014)

He's going to give you a cut, right?  LOL


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## gsgary (Nov 27, 2014)

Mike_E said:


> He's going to give you a cut, right?  LOL


80\20 in my favour [emoji3]


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## dubiousone (Nov 28, 2014)

Alexr25 said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> > Earlier this week on TPF a Mamiya 1000 (DTL?) with a 55mm lens and a Montgomery Wards 135mm lens and Montgomery Wards teleconverter kit, with "leather" camera bag (vinyl actually) and allegedly, leather cases for the accessories, was offered for sale at $220.........................
> ...




A Mamiya 1000DTL was my first camera too! Loved that thing, wish I had it back but I've made up for it, I have two, plus a 500, a 500TL, a 500DTL and a NC1000. (Yeah, I think $220 is a bit much too)


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## minicoop1985 (Nov 30, 2014)

It's amazing what some people think stuff is worth. Leicas, for example... I saw a standard IIIc for sale in an antique shop, fake lens, $700. Nothing overly exciting as far as a Leica is concerned. I would have thought $250.

KEH seems to set the standard for prices on old film gear. Their prices tend to be better than Fleabay.

My Hasselblad was $330 for cripe's sake. I love the damn things, but they seem to be a bit overpriced...


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## Mr.Photo (Nov 30, 2014)

There's a camera shop that I stop by occasionally as they deal almost exclusively with used gear.  They are famous for severely over pricing their gear.  They use KEH to see what they're selling stuff for, and then mark it up from there.  I've seen some equipment in that store going for nearly three times what KEH was selling an "EX" condition item for.

When I was looking to pick up a Nikon FE camera I checked there first as sometimes they will have a decent price on something I want.  However in the case of the FE they wanted nearly $300 for one in horrible condition.  It was brassing all over the body, some of the numbers on the shutter speed dial where barely legible, there were two dents in the top cover, and the viewfinder was so dirty you could barely see through it.

I bought one on KEH for around $100 in "like new" condition.  Then just for kicks, I went to said camera shop to see what they would give me for it and they offered me $15 as they said that it's not a popular model.

The sad thing about this particular store is that it's literally the only one around, and is right in the middle of a popular tourist area in the city.  The amount of people I've seen go in there and blindly pay these exuberant prices is amazing.


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