# Speedlights vs Strobes



## IronMaskDuval (Apr 14, 2014)

It seems that most articles that I read, only a few have limited experience using both. I wanted to see what everyone here preferred. I have a speedlight that I have been using for macro, but in the studio, I use several alienbees. I understand that speedlights take a bit longer to recharge and doesn't meet the same max power output as strobes, but would they be sufficient for studio shoots? The reason why I am asking is because I would like to have my own light kit that I can take to any studio and work with, and speedlights win my favor because of weight and portability, but I have never shot with a full speedlight setup. Would I be able to produce the same kind of lighting or very similar?


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## Derrel (Apr 14, 2014)

Speedlights are light in weight, but pretty low in power compared to various studio lights. Speedlights need special ways to adapt to various light modifiers. With speedlights, you are ,"Shooting blind," with no way to visually confirm *light modifier/subject/shadow/highlight relationships*, which are the KEY to successful lighting. Studio flashes have modeling lights, which SHOW how the subject and the lights are interacting, at ALL times.

I dunno...speedlights can be "adapted to" various modifiers, but I think in some cases the results are kind of limited, kind of half-assed. For use with umbrellas, sure, speedlights work okay. Speedlights can also be fairly expensive compared against some of the economical monolights available today. A guy CAN make some nice light with speedlights and modifiers and knowledge, but for the beginner, I think studio flash units have a HUGE advantage: being able to literally SEE, with one's own eyes, exactly what the LIGHTS (plural) are doing, and how the subject is being lighted and shaped by the lights.

If you wanna slap up a speedlight + umbrella + single person, a single speedlight in an umbrella is okay, sure. If you want to get ambitious, it's a LOT more skill-dependent with speedlights, because as I said earlier, you are "shooting blind", and even minor posing variations often mean the lights need to be re-positioned. ANd that is simply easier to do, and more time-efficient, with modeling lights to guide the photographer.

ALso, if you want to shoot FAST, or in any volume, speedlights WILL overheat in use at a pace that "real studio flash units" could handle easily...because they are designed with COOLING as a key design factor.


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## IronMaskDuval (Apr 14, 2014)

Derrel said:


> Speedlights are light in weight, but pretty low in power compared to various studio lights. Speedlights need special ways to adapt to various light modifiers. With speedlights, you are ,"Shooting blind," with no way to visually confirm light/shadow/highlight relationships, which are the KEY to successful lighting. Studio flashes have modeling lights, which SHOW how the subject and the lights are interacting, at ALL times.
> 
> I dunno...speedlights can be "adapted to" various modifiers, but I think in some cases the results are kind of limited, kind of half-assed. For use with umbrellas, sure, speedlights work okay.




Thanks, Derrel. I was also assuming that the strobes would cost a bit, but I just priced them and they seem to be priced at a lower cost than a new speelight. At first, I thought about renting them, but it seems that renting lights four to five times would have paid for an alienbees set with stands and soft boxes.


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## The_Traveler (Apr 14, 2014)

and, although the word is in common use, are really 'strobes'.



> A *strobe light* or *stroboscopic lamp*, commonly called a *strobe*, is a device used to produce regular flashes of light. It is one of a number of devices that can be used as a stroboscope. The word originated from the Greek _strobos_, meaning "act of whirling."
> A typical commercial strobe light has a flash energy in the region of 10 to 150 joules, and discharge times as short as a few milliseconds, often resulting in a flash power of several kilowatts. Larger strobe lights can be used in &#8220;continuous&#8221; mode, producing extremely intense illumination.
> The light source is commonly a xenon flash lamp, or _flashtube_, which has a complex spectrum and a color temperature of approximately 5,600 kelvins. To obtain colored light, colored gels may be used.



The key word here is regular - rather than single.


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## Derrel (Apr 14, 2014)

Flashpoint 320M monolight, 24x24 inch softbox, light stand, free shipping, $149.95
http://www.adorama.com/FP320MS1.html

LOWER-cost camera-maker speedlight with TTL capability and 100% Nikon compatibility, $326.95--with NO light stand, NO mounting hardware; NO softbox...

Nikon SB-700 Speedlight Shoe Mount Flash 4808 B&H Photo Video


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## astroNikon (Apr 14, 2014)

I'm inexperienced in this arena but for some of the shoots i've been doing I've had to stack speedlights/umbrellas to reproduce a person-tall softbox.  one speedlight/umbrella 3 feet off the ground, the 2nd 7ft off the ground both acting as the key light.

and what Derrel mentions .. a modeling light would be nice to get the shadows correct without having to take a photo, realign lights and redo.  
My SB800s do have that annoying modeling illuminator.  I've clearly seen the benefit of strobes especially if needing large softboxes, you do alot of work and you have the space for them.


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## snerd (Apr 14, 2014)

Derrel, put an "ml" on the end of your first link.


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## Awesometographer (Apr 15, 2014)

I use both extensively. In studio, I use profoto monolights, as well as alienbees and generic YongNuo speedlites.

I don't find speedlites lacking in power, I am typically using them at 1/4 or lower power, ISO 100-400, f/1.4-8 in a variety of modifiers. Below are some of my recent studio shots with speedlites:


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## Derrel (Apr 15, 2014)

Yeah...a speedlight at maybe, on a good day, 50 Watt-seconds is just as powerful as 1200 Watt-seconds fired through one studio flash head...

And a speedlight can handle a 700-frame session without twenty cool-down breaks....


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## Scatterbrained (Apr 15, 2014)

My personal opinion, studio strobe over speedlights every time.   Beyond that, I would say that you should have at least one good speedlight in your kit, but I wouldn't recommend building a kit around speedlights (barring certain situations of course).    You can buy bags that will carry a three light kit (monolights, lightstands, umbrellas/softboxes, cables, etc) for traveling if that's something you need.


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## Awesometographer (Apr 15, 2014)

Derrel said:


> Yeah...a speedlight at maybe, on a good day, 50 Watt-seconds is just as powerful as 1200 Watt-seconds fired through one studio flash head...
> 
> And a speedlight can handle a 700-frame session without twenty cool-down breaks....



Not saying they are. Just saying that this power isn't always needed. I typically use 4-6 speedlites during a studio shoot, 5-600 shots without any issues. Your requirements may be different... but for me, and many others, they work well.


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## IronMaskDuval (Apr 15, 2014)

Scatterbrained said:


> My personal opinion, studio strobe over speedlights every time.   Beyond that, I would say that you should have at least one good speedlight in your kit, but I wouldn't recommend building a kit around speedlights (barring certain situations of course).    You can buy bags that will carry a three light kit (monolights, lightstands, umbrellas/softboxes, cables, etc) for traveling if that's something you need.



I have an sb800, which I'm really happy with. I've been renting lights at the studio and just wondering if it's time to buy some lights so I can have more time to mess with them.


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## Scatterbrained (Apr 15, 2014)

Awesometographer said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah...a speedlight at maybe, on a good day, 50 Watt-seconds is just as powerful as 1200 Watt-seconds fired through one studio flash head...
> ...


and in your previous post you pointed out that you have a Profoto kit.  Which brings me to another point; I often see people saying "speedlights are just fine" yet they have a full compliment of studio lights at their disposal.  Yes, speedlights will do the job, but if you're working on a budget I think studio strobes are the smarter way to go.     I've seen people get so hung up on using speedlights that they end up with half a dozen pro speedlights, modifiers, stands, etc, before realizing that there are times when the speedlights just aren't getting them where they want to go.   Now they have a ton of money sunk into speedlights and modifiers, special brackets and stands, and they're looking to sell it off to get strobes; seems wasteful to me.  I mean really, when people are ganging 3 speedlights on a bracket and stuffing it into a light modifier, where's the benefit of speedlights then?  
    Yes they do their job, but for off camera work they are a compromise.


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## Scatterbrained (Apr 15, 2014)

IronMaskDuval said:


> Scatterbrained said:
> 
> 
> > My personal opinion, studio strobe over speedlights every time.   Beyond that, I would say that you should have at least one good speedlight in your kit, but I wouldn't recommend building a kit around speedlights (barring certain situations of course).    You can buy bags that will carry a three light kit (monolights, lightstands, umbrellas/softboxes, cables, etc) for traveling if that's something you need.
> ...



Are you renting lights and a studio space, or renting lights from a studio?  Just curious as the sentence can be read either way; or do you have a studio and you're renting lights?


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## Awesometographer (Apr 16, 2014)

Scatterbrained said:


> Awesometographer said:
> 
> 
> > Derrel said:
> ...


Personally, I use YongNuo YN560II speedlites. I have 12 of them (at a cost of about $600) and their versatility really works in my favor sometimes. I shoot a lot outdoors, many times in locations that take 30-60 minutes of hiking. I can fit all the speedlites in my backpack, and gang 4 together in a way that gives me similar power to my 600ws profotos, and still maintain a 3 light setup. Taking out the studio lights, plus battery packs, larger clunkier modifiers is just not a good option in those situations.

My new toys, the cheap Neewer V850s give me wireless power adjustment and HSS (something my profotos cannot) and affordable at $100/ea - having the wireless adjustment is very useful no matter what the situation, location or studio.

Alternative tools can still be very useful tools.


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## IronMaskDuval (Apr 16, 2014)

Scatterbrained said:


> Are you renting lights and a studio space, or renting lights from a studio?  Just curious as the sentence can be read either way; or do you have a studio and you're renting lights?


  I'm a member at a shared studio and rent their lights and aperturent is in the same place if I needed more, but I've not shoot more than 1 day in a row. Aperturent requires 3 days


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## Tee (Apr 16, 2014)

I use monolights in a studio setting and either monolights or speedlights on location. It really just depends on type of shoot. I would suggest if someone is investing money into multiple speedlights for studio work, it's more cost effective to invest in monolights.


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## Village Idiot (May 1, 2014)

Hai guys! Long time no see.

Why limit yourself? That's why I have both. I like my Dynalites, but if I'm shooting on location nights and evenings and don't require the light to over power the sun or to shoot larger items at narrower apertures, I like my speedlights. The last session I did was on an abandoned golf course and of course there was a lot of walking involved. I carried two speed lights with triggers and batteries in a zip lock gallon bag (because it was raining off and on) along with triggers and everything I needed packed in a milk crate for the model. This was a lot better than lugging around my Dynalite case and a battery to power everything.

The other bonus for the speedlights is the power control is much finer. The lower power and the 1/3 step controls lets you get pretty precise compared to a larger more powerful light, especially when you don't need all the light. But when you do, you do. Having to combine multiple speedlights to equal the power of just one monolight or light head is just silly unless you absolutely don't have the equipment.

And shooting when you can be plugged in to a wall is a no brainer. Much faster recycle times with unlimited power beats waiting on a flash to recharge and having to change out AA batteries.


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## Mike_E (May 1, 2014)

Want a speedlight with a modeling light?

TTL?

Wireless with TTL?

Around 300 Ws?


Metz mecablitz 76 MZ-5 Digital Handle Mount Flash MZ 76252 B&H

Speedlight that will last all day and night at around 300 Ws?

Interfit Strobies Pro-Flash One Eighty Flash Kit STR200 B&H

Want to get in and then get out quickly?

Get a light meter.


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## Scatterbrained (May 1, 2014)

Village Idiot said:


> Hai guys! Long time no see.
> 
> Why limit yourself? That's why I have both. I like my Dynalites, but if I'm shooting on location nights and evenings and don't require the light to over power the sun or to shoot larger items at narrower apertures, I like my speedlights. The last session I did was on an abandoned golf course and of course there was a lot of walking involved. I carried two speed lights with triggers and batteries in a zip lock gallon bag (because it was raining off and on) along with triggers and everything I needed packed in a milk crate for the model. This was a lot better than lugging around my Dynalite case and a battery to power everything.
> 
> ...


Speedlights tend to have adjust-ability in 1/3 stops, my strobes are adjustable in 1/10th of a stop increments, I'd dare say that's more control than a speedlight.


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## Derrel (May 1, 2014)

I have 1/10 stop control over my lights...I move the light stand forward or backward an inch or two or three. Boom! There's yer 1/10 f/stop control.


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## Scatterbrained (May 1, 2014)

Derrel said:


> I have 1/10 stop control over my lights...I move the light stand forward or backward an inch or two or three. Boom! There's yer 1/10 f/stop control.



I like to place my light for the quality I want, then adjust the power for the level I want.


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## Derrel (May 1, 2014)

If an inch or two makes a difference in "quality", you must have golden eyes to see the difference. But 1/10 stop adjustment does make good sales copy.


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## Scatterbrained (May 1, 2014)

Derrel said:


> If an inch or two makes a difference in "quality", you must have golden eyes to see the difference. But 1/10 stop adjustment does make good sales copy.


 For tabletop work it absolutely does.  For portrait work it just shows how lazy I am.


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## kundalini (May 1, 2014)

I use Nikon speedlights and PCB White Lightning monolights.....often at the same time.  You just have to consider the recycle time of the speedlights.


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## Village Idiot (May 2, 2014)

Scatterbrained said:


> Village Idiot said:
> 
> 
> > Hai guys! Long time no see.
> ...



It may have a greater range, but you have finer ability with a speedlight...well, some speedlights, because of the small range. Being able to adjust it just several w/s at some points.


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