# Camera reflection in metal



## chriswakefield

Hello all.

Really in need of advice here. 

I work as a graphic designer for a firm near Leeds. They have asked me to start taking their photos for their website and brochure, (kind of dropped in it).  Now I have always enjoyed photography (outdoors, fine art, etc), but product photography is new to me. I have looked for course, but they are expensive.  I have tried to find my solution through books etc and I have had no luck. Bascially the products are fine art brushes. My studio space is limited and I am using  a tent, soft box, and lights on each side and shooting live view via the Canon EOS Utility (see attached). Limited equipment also.
I am shooting directly above as they asked. The problem the metal brush ferals are reflecting the camera. So in some of the shots you can see this. Is there a way round this?  Any advice would be much appreciated. I don't want to let them down. Please see the photos below.

Thanks

Chris


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## tirediron

This all relates to the position, intensity, and type of diffusion used on your lights (also, your Blu-Tac is showing!).  I would suggest getting a copy of the lighting bible.


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## chriswakefield

Thanks.. I will buy it now. This image will be cropped and is just a reference image, so ignore the blue tac thanks.


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## tirediron

It's also perfectly normal to have to do some post work on images such as this.  Working with round metal, it can be a challenge to get things 'just right' and it often saves a lot of time to just "photoshop" minor issues.


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## chriswakefield

Sorry for duplicating this post. I thought I posted it  in the wrong section.
Thanks.. apprecaited..Yeah I just wondered if there was a way to remedy this before, as I have 100's of these to do. The book looks great. Cheers.


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## Didereaux

tirediron said:


> This all relates to the position, intensity, and type of diffusion used on your lights (also, your Blu-Tac is showing!).  I would suggest getting a copy of the lighting bible.



or the new edition
Light Science & Magic: An Introduction to Photographic Lighting: Fil Hunter, Steven Biver, Paul Fuqua: 9780415719407: Amazon.com: Books


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## ronlane

I would agree with John on his suggestion. I will be honest, I've just started with the light tent and product photography, I think (other than the blu-tac) these images look good.

Going to have to get mine back out later today and practice.


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## chriswakefield

Thanks Ron. Looking forward to reading  the book.


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## chriswakefield

Thanks didereaux


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## table1349

Didereaux said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> 
> This all relates to the position, intensity, and type of diffusion used on your lights (also, your Blu-Tac is showing!).  I would suggest getting a copy of the lighting bible.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or the new edition
> Light Science & Magic: An Introduction to Photographic Lighting: Fil Hunter, Steven Biver, Paul Fuqua: 9780415719407: Amazon.com: Books
Click to expand...

Curse you Red Barron, you beat me too it.


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## <error>

gryphonslair99 said:


> Didereaux said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would suggest getting a copy of the lighting bible.
> 
> 
> 
> or the new edition
> Light Science & Magic: An Introduction to Photographic Lighting: Fil Hunter, Steven Biver, Paul Fuqua: 9780415719407: Amazon.com: Books
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Curse you Red Barron, you beat me too it.
Click to expand...


Is the new version this much better? I bought the 3rd edition for a fraction of the price off Abebooks hoping that physics haven't changed - were I wrong ?


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## tirediron

<error> said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Didereaux said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would suggest getting a copy of the lighting bible.
> 
> 
> 
> or the new edition
> Light Science & Magic: An Introduction to Photographic Lighting: Fil Hunter, Steven Biver, Paul Fuqua: 9780415719407: Amazon.com: Books
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Curse you Red Barron, you beat me too it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is the new version this much better? I bought the 3rd edition for a fraction of the price off Abebooks hoping that physics haven't changed - were I wrong ?
Click to expand...

I'm still working off of the third, based on the same assumption!


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## table1349

The biggest change probably is an update to the functions of newer equipment.  The principals have not changed unless there is something new in the world of physics dealing with light that I am not aware of.


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## Ihatemymoney

chriswakefield said:


> Hello all.
> 
> Really in need of advice here.
> 
> I work as a graphic designer for a firm near Leeds. They have asked me to start taking their photos for their website and brochure, (kind of dropped in it).  Now I have always enjoyed photography (outdoors, fine art, etc), but product photography is new to me. I have looked for course, but they are expensive.  I have tried to find my solution through books etc and I have had no luck. Bascially the products are fine art brushes. My studio space is limited and I am using  a tent, soft box, and lights on each side and shooting live view via the Canon EOS Utility (see attached). Limited equipment also.
> I am shooting directly above as they asked. The problem the metal brush ferals are reflecting the camera. So in some of the shots you can see this. Is there a way round this?  Any advice would be much appreciated. I don't want to let them down. Please see the photos below.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Chris
> 
> Hi Chris
> So some how you got talked into or talked yourself into buying a photo tent that reflects light in every direction and then you say you have a reflection issue ?
> I hope you are thinking about what I just said and what you are doing to your photos.
> 
> Light strikes smooth surfaced of the product you are trying to photograph...
> Because your product is round you cannot escape the direct reflection line caused by the light.
> But in your case you have reflected light coming in from every direction.
> And therefor you have reflection issues coming in from every direction.
> 
> 
> For one inside the tent you will never be able to escape direct reflection because you have light being bounced reflected and scattered in side the tent.
> Two is you now have Polarized  light and though it will make no difference on the metal it does create issues with all non metallic smooth surfaces by glaring them out where your blacks will look whited out or gray.
> 
> Dump the light tent if you want to get rid of the reflection issues and use one large light source.
> You have little control of angle of light inside your tent..... ( family of angles ).
> 
> The angle of light to the subject and angle of camera to the subject is the only way to control direct reflection issues.
> 
> Then you have UV and polarized reflection that can cause issues with all Non metallic smooth surfaces .....


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## epatsellis

A couple bits of advice:

1. Ditch the light tent and spend some time learning with Light- Science and Magic about how to really light an object effectively. 

2. Longer focal length lens will eliminate the reflection of the camera, when shooting jewelry and other small shiny things, it's not unusual for me to use a 300mm lens with an extension tube. It eliminates any hint of a reflection, and as an added bonus, gives you a ton more working room...sometimes too much.

3. Vis a vis #2, start learning to shoot tethered, it will make life much easier.


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## chriswakefield

Thanks for the advice epatsellis
you mind me contacting you on here?
regards
chris


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## Peeb

gryphonslair99 said:


> The biggest change probably is an update to the functions of newer equipment.  The principals have not changed unless there is something new in the world of physics dealing with light that I am not aware of.


Nope- news this week is with gravity waves, not light. 
Einstein's right again: Scientists detect ripples in gravity


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## astroNikon

Is it me or is the WhiteBalance off especially the 2nd brush image ?


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## chriswakefield

The second shot was taken on light grey/blue card.


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## Ihatemymoney

chriswakefield said:


> The second shot was taken on light grey/blue card.



I don't why what I wrote didn't come up in my first post.
I wrote allot of info.
First you should do some searches on reflection and the different kinds of reflections and what certain smooth surface subjects reflect differently and why certain lighting creates reflection.
WIKI is very informational !!!!!!
The book Light, Science  and Magic is my go to book if I have a reflection issue.

To your photographs and to your lighting set up.
Well you have 3 lights on the out side of your tent and now you have polarized light bouncing every direction inside your tent,

So how many glare lines you have on the paint brushes ?

Dump the tent buy the book Light science and magic.
and speedliters hand book.

Buy a speedlight  some kind of soft box or reflector for the speed light maybe some linear polarized film and a cpl for your lens.

The issue is also the glare you have on the wooden handles of the brush..


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## chriswakefield

Thanks for the feedback.
I will ditch the tent and try other methods. Work have given me a little room to use as a studio now, so I am wanting to a set up there.
So you favour a speedlight instead? I thought a studio set up would be better for consistency, as i have to take these photos directly above.


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## Ihatemymoney

chriswakefield said:


> Thanks for the feedback.
> I will ditch the tent and try other methods. Work have given me a little room to use as a studio now, so I am wanting to a set up there.
> So you favour a speedlight instead? I thought a studio set up would be better for consistency, as i have to take these photos directly above.



No matter if you dump the tent or not you will still have to deal with the image reflected in the metal.
That's where the book Light Science and Magic helps and the book Speed lighters hand book because the book contains many pictures of how to set up your lighting and reflectors and gobo's.

You might need something around you camera like a peek hole that the lens will slide through.
there is no escape getting partially polarized light inside a light tent.
And the polarized light only creates glare on the handles of the brushes not on the metal...
Your pictures don't look that bad .

I have to agree the white balance was off on most of photos .

I use Alein Bees and white lightening strobes , and I never use two lights on a small smooth surface reflective subjects because of the 2nd line of reflection and I am lighting the subject  at a angle its not making a unwanted shadow.

After to switching to flash or strobe photography and table top product photography I canned my light tent and never want to use Florescent again .....

I have a speedlight but i don't normally use it for Product photography.

Here is a picture of my set up.



If you notice the white strip going around the bottom of my soft box , that is Velcro and its holing the linear polarized film on the bottom of the soft box.
I am using a TSE 17mm  on a canon 5DmkII  with a 145mm fotodiox CPL.
Because you are photographing polished metal and you have smooth black handles makes your product photography very specialized in the form of seeing a image in the reflections of the metal piece  and glare that is produced on the handle by using light that is partially or is considered polarized light....


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## Ihatemymoney

It seems I have allot better control of reflection when the camera is not at certain angle of the subject even on round smooth surfaced  reflective objects !
Sorry about the lent in this photo it is embarrassing



Here is a photo taken almost right above the chalker's
and this is the reason I changed the angle that I photograph my products ...


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## chriswakefield

Hi,

Thanks for the feedback, I really appreciated this  
I have purchased a grey card for the white balance and the books are coming soon. Looking forward to ditching the tent.  I have spoke to the management and they have given me a £2000 budget to buy more equipment, which is great. I am using a 5D and the 50mm prime lens.. the rest of the equipment is rubbish. If you had this budget what would be your equipment list? I may have to use Ebay etc to try and get more for my money.

Unfortunately all the shots have to be taken directly above and they won't allow me to change this. A few years ago they paid a lot of money for a professional photographer to photo the catalogue (please see the images below). This is what they are wanting me to replicate.. the consistent dark reflection on the ferals of the brushes etc. Thanks


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## chriswakefield




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## epatsellis

chriswakefield said:


> Hi,
> ...Unfortunately all the shots have to be taken directly above and they won't allow me to change this. A few years ago they paid a lot of money for a professional photographer to photo the catalogue (please see the images below). This is what they are wanting me to replicate.. the consistent dark reflection on the ferals of the brushes etc. Thanks



Why directly above? In reality perpendicular to the plane of the brushes, (hint: ) were they on a wall, you'd be shooting them straight on, wouldn't you?


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## chriswakefield

Hi 
Thanks for the feedback. 
The professional they hired shot from above, so I just trying to recreate  what he did. With the main light coming from above. I will be buying some new kit soon, so I will try what you said. 

Thanks 

Chris


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## petrochemist

Those shots don't look like they are lit from above.
It looks like a softbox & a reflector have been on the sides parallel to the brushes. 
The dark band between the highlights is the bit the camera would have been in, and dark flags would probably have been used to prevent stary light from the reflector/softbox falling diractly on the camera lens.


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## astroNikon

Look at the light shadows in that brochure.  They're off to the side.  Think of how the light creates shadows ... and you'll figure out the light was not from above, but from an angle.  Then the other softened highlighted on the opposite side of the metal -- think reflector.


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