# I need a portable flash suggestion



## GerryDavid (Apr 16, 2012)

Its time for me to buy a proper flash for outside portraits.  Ive been using vivitar 285 hv's for years now, but for some reason I seem to be going through them like they were disposable.  I think ive bought 7 of them and I have 2 left that are working.  I think one failed becuase I was using it outside when it was raining, im pretty sure I kept it dry but maybe it got damp or its just a coincidence.  I did drop a couple of them from maybe 4', but I havent dropped a flash yet this year *knocks on wood* hehe.

Last year I used a bounce card on my flash and this year I have stepped it up to using a 40" white umbrella to get a softer light outside.  Im not 100% sure I can see a difference, I need to do a test shoot again.    But using the umbrella does cause me to loose some power/distance.

I dont care about auto this and that, im use to using a flash on manual and adjusting power as I go.  I would prefer the flash to be weather resistant, just in case.   I also want something that is at least as powerful as my vivitar 285's that have a general gn of 110, but preferably more powerful.  But I definetly want to have faster cycling time.

I try to do most of my outdoor portraits in the shade so the flash is just a fill flash to brighten the eyes and face, but I would like to get more into broad daylight photography, putting the sun behind them and using the flash to balance the exposure, which means I have to use my vivitars at full power and the cycle time just kills the flow.

I generally work by myself, no assistant other than asking a seniors parents to hold the flash for me.  Its easier to get them to hold the umbrella right than a reflector so that is why I haven't been using the reflectors.

My first instinct is to go with a canon flash but then it occured to me that it might be a waste of money since my triggers wont be using the eos metering and its not a feature I will probably use.

Sorry for rambling.    Can anyone suggest a good off camera flash that is fast cycling, powerful and weather proof?    And preferably wont break the bank.  Ill probably have to spend about $500 on this.  Which would buy me about 12 vivitar's on ebay, hmmm.


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## cgipson1 (Apr 16, 2012)

OEM flashes are usually far superior the the third party flashes.. in build quality, reliability, weather proofing, etc! Even if you don't use the TTL capability, you will still be getting a much better flash! There is a reason they cost more!

You an also get external battery packs to cut down on the recycle time... they work well.

I don't shoot Canon... so can't help with specifics...


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## Village Idiot (Apr 16, 2012)

LumoPro LP160?

It's sold by MPEX.com and they back up their products.


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## GerryDavid (Apr 16, 2012)

I dont mean no name brands.  just like in lenses, there are some off brands that deliver great quality like tokina.  I figured the same had to work for flashes.    like if elinchrom were to make a portable flash.

and external battery packs is an intersting idea.

on a side note I bought a ac/dc connector for my 283 flash figuring ti would make it cycle faster and it actually took longer than using batteries.


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## analog.universe (Apr 16, 2012)

I use the LP160s, and I love them...  I'm not sure about their durability under the conditions described however.  The recycle is fast and they also take external packs to go even faster, but I'd be really afraid to have them out in the rain.  They're well priced for their power and build though, and they've never been unreliable for me.

I think in your circumstance though I'd go for a 580ex II or the new 600.  The Canon brand stuff is just built to a higher spec, and you pay for it.


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## GerryDavid (Apr 16, 2012)

who makes the lp160?  *goes to search*


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## analog.universe (Apr 16, 2012)

LumoPro, Village Idiot mentioned it first so I got a little shorthandy...

It was designed based on feedback from the community at strobist.com, and MPEX.com is the main distributor.


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## Village Idiot (Apr 16, 2012)

GerryDavid said:


> I dont mean no name brands.  just like in lenses, there are some off brands that deliver great quality like tokina.  I figured the same had to work for flashes.    like if elinchrom were to make a portable flash.
> 
> and external battery packs is an intersting idea.
> 
> on a side note I bought a ac/dc connector for my 283 flash figuring ti would make it cycle faster and it actually took longer than using batteries.



They do. Pick your poison.
Ranger | Elinchrom


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## Mach0 (Apr 16, 2012)

Since you are using manual flashes, pick up some old Nikon speedlights( sb28 etc.) Pretty strong and take battery packs. Just don't fire too many in a row. You will cook the flash.


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## GerryDavid (Apr 16, 2012)

how many is to many in a row?

I usually take 3 or 4 shots of each pose, maybe double that or triple that if I use different angles but I dont do that to often.  Then were off to the next location and/or pose.    I range from 150 to 250 pictures in an hour session.  it may seem like a lot but they are in sets of 3 or 4 of almost the same thing, just slight differences in facial expressions, usually there is 1 they love and the rest are forgettable which is why I do it the way it is, want to make sure I get that one they love.


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## analog.universe (Apr 16, 2012)

GerryDavid said:


> how many is to many in a row?



That will depend on how hot you're running the flash.  At 1/1 power, you'll overheat much more easily than 1/8...

I saw a YouTube photographer once advocate putting 2 speedlights in each umbrella.  You run them each at half what you normally would to get faster recycles + lower temperature + better battery life.  It doesn't sound to me like the type of shooting you do will be a problem however.

When I first got my LumoPro's I was playing around with some water drop shots, and definitely fired them at 1/32 at least 1500 times in an hour.


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## Mach0 (Apr 16, 2012)

Some sites say ten full power flashes in 10 minutes. I've never tried it. I would just keep that in mind. I haven't run into that problem but I'm havent put it to the test or shot with flash in burst mode.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Apr 16, 2012)

Village Idiot said:


> GerryDavid said:
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> 
> > I dont mean no name brands.  just like in lenses, there are some off brands that deliver great quality like tokina.  I figured the same had to work for flashes.    like if elinchrom were to make a portable flash.
> ...




^^^^those


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## GerryDavid (Apr 16, 2012)

I couldnt find the sb28 on bh so I found a review, and it said the gn is only 36?  seems rather weak compared to the gn 110 of the vivitar 285 an gn 190 of the canon one.


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## Mach0 (Apr 16, 2012)

GerryDavid said:
			
		

> I couldnt find the sb28 on bh so I found a review, and it said the gn is only 36?  seems rather weak compared to the gn 110 of the vivitar 285 an gn 190 of the canon one.



It's either 118 or 128.Cant remember off the top of my head.


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## GerryDavid (Apr 16, 2012)

that would make more sense then.  36 didint seem reasonable for real use.


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## cgipson1 (Apr 16, 2012)

GerryDavid said:


> how many is to many in a row?
> 
> I usually take 3 or 4 shots of each pose, maybe double that or triple that if I use different angles but I dont do that to often.  Then were off to the next location and/or pose.    I range from 150 to 250 pictures in an hour session.  it may seem like a lot but they are in sets of 3 or 4 of almost the same thing, just slight differences in facial expressions, usually there is 1 they love and the rest are forgettable which is why I do it the way it is, want to make sure I get that one they love.



One trick with some Nikon flashes (SB900 for instance).. is that you can fire them fast and furious indefinitely if you use an external battery pack... It is the batteries that get hot... not so much the flash unit itself. Don't know if that is true of the Canon's or not....


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## KmH (Apr 16, 2012)

150 - 250 photos in a 1hr session?


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## GerryDavid (Apr 16, 2012)

Yup, I think my record is 400 in 2 hours.  the 150 to 250 is about 40 to 72 unique shots, and I usually end up with a list of 20-50 pictures they love, which greatly helps me sell the press printed albums that start off with 20 pages/20 pictures.


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## Mach0 (Apr 16, 2012)

GerryDavid said:
			
		

> Yup, I think my record is 400 in 2 hours.  the 150 to 250 is about 40 to 72 unique shots, and I usually end up with a list of 20-50 pictures they love, which greatly helps me sell the press printed albums that start off with 20 pages/20 pictures.



That's a lot. You prob cooked the flash tube on
Your vivitar. You might want to get some mono's and a power pack.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Apr 16, 2012)

400 pics in 2 hours? Sounds like they hold up to Spray and Pray shoots?


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## Village Idiot (Apr 16, 2012)

Mach0 said:


> GerryDavid said:
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Why not look into this suggestion and look at lights that include fans to keep them cool and can survive that type of shooting. At 200 shots an hour you're looking at roughly 3.33 shots a minute. That might not sound like a lot until you figure you're shooting faster than that with moving everything around and not constantly shooting a little over 3 shots a minute. How many sets of batteries do you go through? You could get a set of "studio" strobes and even if you're shooting on location, you can purchase batteries that will give you the option to step away from a wall outlet. The down side is that the setup will be heavier, but you can find something like an adorama flashpoint monolight that's 150w/s for $100, IIRC.

It just sounds like a larger light would be more helpful than buying more speedlights.


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## GerryDavid (Apr 16, 2012)

2WheelPhoto said:


> 400 pics in 2 hours? Sounds like they hold up to Spray and Pray shoots?


 
shesh, how many times do I have to say this, I do about 3 to 5 of each pose/location to make sure I get a facial expression that they like.  its not 400 unique shots.    Its a technique I learned from the wedding photographer I studied under that has been successful for me.


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## GerryDavid (Apr 16, 2012)

Mach0 said:


> GerryDavid said:
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Hmm, possible I guess.  I usually use 1/16th power through 1/4th power, sometimes 1/2 but not to often.  the cycle time just takes to long.  the flash cycling time probably saves me from frying it.


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## GerryDavid (Apr 16, 2012)

I use regular duracell AA's, I found rechargeables were damaging the flash since they seem to swell after they were freshly charged?

A set of 4 aa's lasts me probably 2 or 3 shoots.  I use 1/16th and 1/4th power most of the time.

once the battery tester puts them on the bottom of the top line I change them out since half drained batteries takes to long to charge up.



Village Idiot said:


> Mach0 said:
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## Mike_E (Apr 17, 2012)

Here you go,  Buy.com - CowboyStudio Dual Power AC/DC 110v Mettle 600W Flash Strobe Light w/ Rechargeable Battery Pack.


I don't know the seller but I have one of these, I wouldn't drop it but it's pretty rugged and if you're going to use it at full power I'd get an extra battery.  I haven't run mine dry but with your shooting style it wouldn't hurt.

Full power cycle is around 2 seconds but at 600 ws I doubt you'll be using it at full unless you're trying day for night shots.


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## GerryDavid (Apr 17, 2012)

Mike_E said:


> Here you go,  Buy.com - CowboyStudio Dual Power AC/DC 110v Mettle 600W Flash Strobe Light w/ Rechargeable Battery Pack.
> 
> 
> I don't know the seller but I have one of these, I wouldn't drop it but it's pretty rugged and if you're going to use it at full power I'd get an extra battery.  I haven't run mine dry but with your shooting style it wouldn't hurt.
> ...


 
The page says cycle time is 2-7 seconds.  Any idea what the GN is?  It says 300-600 watts, but im not sure how to compare that to guide numbers.


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## Village Idiot (Apr 17, 2012)

Look into batteries like Sanyo Eneloops. They are slow discharge batteries and act like AA's in flashes rather than standard rechargables. They're about $10 a set, but totally worth it.

I wouldn't purchase anything through cowboy studio personally. They've proven to be a pretty terrible company.


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## GerryDavid (Apr 17, 2012)

bad how?  customer support, quality?


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## GerryDavid (Apr 17, 2012)

it looks to be $30 cheaper on amazon and free shipping.

Amazon.com: CowboyStudio Mettle600ADstrobe Dual Power AC/DC 110v Mettle 600W Flash, Professional Strobe Flash Light, with Rechargeable Battery Pack: Camera & Photo

I wonder why bh doesnt sell them, bit weird.


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## Mach0 (Apr 17, 2012)

Shop around. KEH had a speedotron 1000ws mono for $399. Be patient and smart about your purchase. Otherwise, you'd be paying twice.


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## GerryDavid (Apr 17, 2012)

But is that 1000ws strobe useable outside?  I guess any strobe can be used outside with a powerpack, but id be afraid of humidity and moisture and possible shocks?

The 600w one would be even more powerful than the strobe I have in studio now, which is the dlite4.


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## Mike_E (Apr 17, 2012)

Gerry, the one I linked to is a Mettle, Mettle is -as far as I have been able to determine- the main manufacturer for a number of Brands.  In other words the Brands take the basic strobe then add a little different packaging and their own name much as most of the products of Chinese origin.  Some of Adorama's Flashpoints are the the same (there is a 300WS model out there too)  B&H had one called the Interfit Steller Xtreme Interfit Stellar Xtreme 300 Watt/Second AC/DC Monolight INT474 this one is 300 ws.

Raw watt seconds are a little hard to translate into guide numbers because a regular flash is more focused.  The guide numbers that they give are for the most focused settings.  My old Metz 60 CT4 has a guide number of 60 meters (197 feet) which is around 300 ws.  It also has a recycle rate of about 6 seconds at full dump.

As to Cowboy Studios, I've bought a few things from them.  Good quality _for the money_ and have had no issues with the owner.


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## Mach0 (Apr 17, 2012)

GerryDavid said:
			
		

> But is that 1000ws strobe useable outside?  I guess any strobe can be used outside with a powerpack, but id be afraid of humidity and moisture and possible shocks?
> 
> The 600w one would be even more powerful than the strobe I have in studio now, which is the dlite4.



I don't know about it getting rained on but it's speedotron. It has a better reputation than many of the companies. A few members on here would know about them more than I do. It's been sold already. It only lasted less than a week but I'm sure you can find similar deals. Are you shooting in the rain or something ?


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## GerryDavid (Apr 17, 2012)

I prefer not to shoot in the rain, but I do love to shoot in overcast weather, which sometimes leads to rain.  I do my best to keep my gear dry though.



Mach0 said:


> GerryDavid said:
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## Village Idiot (Apr 17, 2012)

GerryDavid said:


> But is that 1000ws strobe useable outside?  I guess any strobe can be used outside with a powerpack, but id be afraid of humidity and moisture and possible shocks?
> 
> The 600w one would be even more powerful than the strobe I have in studio now, which is the dlite4.



Any strobe can be used outside as long as you have enough power cord or a battery that's compatible. Something like the Elinchrom Ranger is made to be weather resistant and runs off a battery. I know the snowboard guys like them a lot.


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