# Tamron 150-600 G2 Sharpness



## SuzukiGS750EZ (Jan 2, 2017)

I for the life of me can not get a sharp image at the long end of this lens! I'm using a canon 80d handheld, even at 1/2000 f11 on auto ISO i'm just not getting the sharpness i was hoping for. Maybe it's my technique, maybe it's the lens... who knows. Before owning this lens i haven't used anything longer than a 75-300 Non IS. I do love the VC in this lens and it works well on the short end but at 600 i get soft images. Is it the nature of APS-C? How do i go about diagnosing whether it's me or the lens? How do people get beautifully up close shots on wildlife that are so sharp you can see bits of dirt on their feathers? My photos look like i dropped a kit lens IN the dirt and shot with it. Hints? I don't have any shots because i deleted them all lol.


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## dxqcanada (Jan 2, 2017)

Canon DLC: Article: Canon EOS AF Microadjustment Guidebook


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## SuzukiGS750EZ (Jan 2, 2017)

dxqcanada said:


> Canon DLC: Article: Canon EOS AF Microadjustment Guidebook


Is this an article on back/front focusing? On my phone right now so I will read when I can get to my computer. If so, there's no focus issue, is more just soft focus as far as not being sharp on the long end. Kind of like what digital zoom does to an image.


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## DarkShadow (Jan 2, 2017)

Set it up on a tripod or something stable then focus on something and use the self timer or remote shutter release @ 600mm thats not 100 yards away keep it simple and be sure your focus point is on target, turn off VC if needed and Shoot in good lighting conditions, if its still soft back off from 600mm a bit say like 550 and repeat the process if its still soft you may have a bad copy or need micro adjustments use the charts to be sure it is not front or back focusing.Also there is a bit of a learning curve for such a big lens like good hand support, good focusing on the subject and no matter how good the vc  is good technique. I don't have experience with the tamron but have been shooting with a few big lenses like this for a couple of years like the sigma 120-400,150-500 and the sigma 150-600mm and have got tack sharp results in ideal lighting conditions and being mindful on my hand holding techniques.


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## SuzukiGS750EZ (Jan 2, 2017)

DarkShadow said:


> Set it up on a tripod or something stable then focus on something and use the self timer or remote shutter release @ 600mm thats not 100 yards away keep it simple and be sure your focus point is on target, turn off VC if needed and Shoot in good lighting conditions, if its still soft back off from 600mm a bit say like 550 and repeat the process if its still soft you may have a bad copy or need micro adjustments use the charts to be sure it is not front or back focusing.Also there is a bit of a learning curve for such a big lens like good hand support, good focusing on the subject and no matter how good the vc  is good technique  is needed.


I was thinking that, but I figured at the shutter speeds I was shooting is be fine. I will try this for sure though


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## DarkShadow (Jan 2, 2017)

Yes the shutter speeds should count for camera shake with or with out VC but won't help for missed focus or  front or back focus issue's it's not uncommon unfortunately  so just to rule out user area.My first copy of my sigma 150-600 the OS Optical stabilization was a dude so I returned for a replacement, the second copy was fine.


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## Derrel (Jan 2, 2017)

I have not been following this lens since it went to G2...but the original release was noted for being decidedly SOFTER at the top of the zoom range, compared to at 500mm. And also, at f/11, the 80D's high-density, high-MP sensor will likely be showing a pretty fair amount of sharpness loss due to the small, f/11 aperture causing diffraction.

Also, 600mm is a long lens length, prone to showing environmental issues like heat waves (mirage), air pollution or pollen/dust/haze/fog/suspended sea spray, camera movement; shutter vibrations; mirror slap; oscillation withing the camera/lens combo; and so on. Every.Single.Thing,That.Could.Go.Wrong.Can.Show.Up.At.600mm.

How does it look at 500mm? How does f/8 look versus f/11, at various lengths?

Can you do a straight comparison of a 500mm image versus a 600mm? One reviewer noted that he thought it better to shoot at 500mm, and crop-in at the computer, rather than rely on 600mm in the field.


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## DarkShadow (Jan 2, 2017)

Yea I never found a need to go above f/8 good points above and beside the diffraction setting why starve from more light and they are certainly better backed off then always pegged at 600mm


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## SuzukiGS750EZ (Jan 2, 2017)

Good points to consider. it's rainy here today but i will try mid afternoon on wednesday at 450-500-550-600 and see what it looks like. I know it CAN be sharp as i've shot indoors with it and the pictures come out amazing, but i'm bummed on the long end. We'll see.


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## DarkShadow (Jan 2, 2017)

Omg some one brave enough to shoot indoors with that lens.


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## zombiesniper (Jan 2, 2017)

If you need to focus adjust here is a link to a DIY focus chart.


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## Derrel (Jan 2, 2017)

Well, keep in mind that outdoor atmospheric conditions can have a big impact on images; subtle heat waves coming off of roadways, or sidewalks, or parking lots, and so on, can cause "shimmer" or "mirage", especially over longer distances where a 500 or 600mm focal length might be used. At the Camp Randall 1,000 yard rifle matches, some of the competitors ahev reported that "compensated" aim points on targets can be as much as 6 to 7 feet, due to heat mirage.

In the winter, if you shoot across a roadway let's say that has had some sunshine for a couple hours, it could actually be releasing heat (!) that screws up pictures of things behind the roadway. Rain? That is a factor. Same with slight fog. here today it is sliughtly foggy...I can see about 800 yards...and then, nothing. By my way of thinking, I shoudl be able to SEE Mt. Hood, some 48 miles from here...but I can';t even see a freaking mountain that's over 12,000 feet high...

Also, you mention "indoors" vs outdoors. Maybe that translates to better air OR to much-closer shooting distances. Could possibly a focus micro-adjust help at long range? Also, you mentioned hand-held...1/2000 second is different than say 1/4000 or 1/5000 second. At 600mm at 1x the focal length, the bare minimum speed is 1/600 second, but 2x the FL is better, for 1/1200 second minimum safe speed; then add the APS-C crop factor of 1.5x, or 1/2400 second; SO... 1/2000 second doesn't count for subject movement very much, and is marginal unless hand-holding technique is PERFECT. And that's a herkin' lens...

Just last week, AstroNikon and I were PM'ing about his 150-600 and aircraft...he might weigh in here..he's recently moved up into thre 1/2500 second range on the D500, and is getting sharper images than he was with slower speeds.


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## SuzukiGS750EZ (Jan 2, 2017)

I shot 1/1000 to 1/8000 but of course as i went up in shutter speed so did ISO. I guess it's a losing battle lol. Wednesday it's supposed to be 50 and sunny! Heat wave!!!!! I've been laid up just shy of three weeks so at some point i'd like to get outside and try my hand with this lens, so far it's just been shooting out of an open window or inside of my bedroom. My iguana makes a great subject lol. I have noticed heat coming off of the house, it's apparent against the trees in the background. I can't tell if it's close or far or if it's even inside or out. I was wondering if that had anything to do with my softer images which is why i've been dying to get outside.


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## SCraig (Jan 2, 2017)

You can't use short focal length technique with long focal length lenses.  Even with fast shutter speeds they are pretty unforgiving about lens movement.  If all you've used is a 300mm lens that one is different ball game.  Even using a tripod the shutter release has to be smooth to prevent shake in the image.  I quit trying to handhold my 500mm lens, my hands aren't steady enough, and always use a tripod.


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## weepete (Jan 2, 2017)

I had a similar thoughts about my V1 version of this lens, so I gave it a few tests at home and a small microadjustment which just made it a touch sharper. It didn't totally solve the problem though. I eventually came to the conclusion that I was expecting a bit much from the lens, and because of that I was shooting from too far away from small subjects (mainly birds). Now I've realised that I need to be closer than I think to get those detail shots. I also noticed that most of the time I got better results at fast shutter speeds with the VC turned off (though the G2 may be ok in mode 3) especially because of the delay in the VC turning on and me using bbf.

You also need to bear in mind that while they are great lenses, they are no where near the detail monsters of the telephoto primes that are the staple of the pro wildlife photographers. But then again a Canon 600mm f4 L is $11,500

It is quite a learning curve for these lenses though


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## Derrel (Jan 2, 2017)

SuzukiGS750E5 said:
			
		

> SNIP>>>I have noticed heat coming off of the house, it's apparent against the trees in the background. I can't tell if it's close or far or if it's even inside or out. I was wondering if that had anything to do with my softer images which is why i've been dying to get outside.



Oh, my gosh, yes, if you as a human can "see" heat mirage, if you shoot through it it can affect the image. If there is heat coming from your house, or a neighbor's house, or several houses, that could be an issue. The entire neighborhood could be a big mass of rooftops leaking heat upward. And, as SCraig mentioned, long lenses are unforgiving as heck. I have a 500mm f/8 and have used my old 400/3.5 with its matched TC-301 two-power converter as an 800mm f/7.1 I guess it is.Where I live, in the summertime, the air has so,so much pollen and agricultural particulate matter that about 100 yards,tops, is the limit for a *clear, sharp,* *long-telephoto* image, on most summer days. Just too many environmental issues here in the summer months. Plus, shutter release let-off has gotta be ultra-soft at 800mm or at 500mm.

300mm and 400mm can hide some issues, and as you mention, ISO levels at f/8 or f/11 become an issue, and a tradeoff in faster speeds versus higher ISO levels. Realistically, 500mm f/8 mirror teles, or f/8 500 pre-set lenses, or f/8-ish tele-zooms are best in bright, sunny weather, and clear, clean air conditions.


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## goooner (Jan 2, 2017)

Yes, this is number 1 on my list for 2017, learning how to use this lens. I have a couple of samples on here but I probably need to micro adjust as well. This was my 1st shot (cheating with flash) on our balcony. 
European nuthatch

Here a blue tit, with probably a front focus problem (or I missed focus), around 5 meters away. 
Blue tit

And here a king fisher around 15 meters away
European kingfisher

The tit and king fisher have both been cropped. I tried this lens with a monopod, but did better hand holding-was still very tough. I guess a gimbal head for my tripod will be my next purchase.


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## astroNikon (Jan 2, 2017)

If you are shooting through any type of visible (or not visible) atmospheric abberation (heat wave/mirage, light fog, dust, etc) then the image will suffer greatly.  This is the same as shooting the moon and getting flat undetailed shots and not knowing when the sky is actually clear, or when high atmospheric clouds are blurring the images.   Visible Heat Waves can affect images greatly.

You really have to practice on learning how to use this lens.
When I first got this lens I tested it in my basement, first on a tripod then handheld.  Because if you can get sharp images on a tripod you should be able to duplicate the image handheld.  Matter of fact jcdeboever and I tested his Sigma 150-600 in my basement to understand how to use it better.  Initially getting blurry shots then later on get sharp images.

I have the first version of this lens. and it was CoastalConns so I know it's a good, sharp lens.

I shoot strictly at f/8 for images on the ground and the largest open aperture when pointed towards space (except the moon) as everything is blurry anyways and my telescope if the main space lens used. 

The VC on the first version lens is good up to around 1/400 then it can cause image oddities.  So make sure you have your VC turned off at the shutter speeds you are using - from your first post it seems as if you have it on.  You can test this handheld in a fixed environment (ie, your basement).

With shutter speeds, I've also shoot with a D7000, D600, D750 and now a D500 with this lens.  And i'm directly comparing it to the D750.

One high altitude aircraft around 7-14 miles @ 600ish mph away I've had to more than double my shutter speed to get equivalent FF image IQ on the d500.    Even more local eagle I've felt the need to increase my shutter speed a bit compared to FF.

If you still have to crop alot it is still a problem of being close enough of not.  Whether you are 100 feet away on a 70-200 or  400ft on a 150-600, you still want to get the image taking up as much as possible on the sensor.  When you can't then the image may suffer from excessive crop (and I do a lot of excessive crops).

The VC works well at 1/320ish the best it seems.  Taking handheld pics of the moon I've tested it.  But if the object you are shooting is moving the VC won't help to much, so I generally have it off anyways.  VC was designed for hand/camera shake on the first version.

Per Tamron's website for G2


> VC MODE 1 is the standard mode that strikes a great balance between the stability of the viewfinder image and the stabilization effects.
> VC MODE 2 is exclusively used for panning.
> VC MODE 3 prioritizes the stabilization of the captured images and forgoes the stabilization of the viewfinder image.



So learn what VC is and how to use it to your advantage.  And practice on fixed and moving objects.


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## DarkShadow (Jan 2, 2017)

Yes that was nice of you and good work working with JC,I remember how frustrated he was from the sigma but as you and Derrel said the Atmosperic Abberation the IQ suffers badly.I bet a lot of the negative reviews from these type of tools In the past and  present where shot in crappy condition and didn't give enough time to learn how to use it and find the sweet spot for the best IQ. I am sure there is some bad copy's floating around to, but I bet many are user related.


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## SuzukiGS750EZ (Jan 2, 2017)

So when should I have vc on? Yes, currently I do, handheld at all shutter speeds. Mode 3.


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## zombiesniper (Jan 2, 2017)

As Darrel has said, if you can sea heat waves of any kind, don't expect a clear image. It will almost always be at least soft if not psychedelic.

As for hand holding, that is a personal thing. You are the only one that can figure our if and in what conditions you can hand hold. I can hand hold my 500mm with the IS on down to 1/320th easily and have on occasion down to 1/100th but I always had hold that and don't even own a tripod for it.  I hand hold all my lenses down below the 1/Xmm rule but I practice low speeds all the time when in bad light.


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## astroNikon (Jan 2, 2017)

DarkShadow said:


> but as you and Derrel said the Atmosperic Abberation the IQ suffers badly



It's like shooting through a window screen or a pane of glass.  The image will be dull no matter what you do .. like cheap filters, etc.

The other night was very clear.  Except someone had a small woodfire in their backyard and the smoke was going right over my area.  So ... there were no clear good images to be taken unless I moved.  Or like clouds in from of the moon .. thin clouds, thick clouds, it's all affecting the final image IQ.

So anything between you and the subject can affect the image.  
If *you* see a heat mirage then the Camera is going to see it too.  
The camera will be affected by things that you don't see too.


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## astroNikon (Jan 2, 2017)

Same day, different altitudes and distance to subject but neither was too far away 1/4 mile at most for the helicopter. Overcast day, thin "fog" in the air.  shots are 2 minutes apart. And the helicopter was moving much slower.
One fairly clear and sharp even with the overcast background, and the other one just blaaah ...
you can clearly see this stuff with your eyes, the camera doesn't have x-ray vision.


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## SuzukiGS750EZ (Jan 2, 2017)

If it's anything to add at f6.3, 16,000 ISO vc mode 3 at 1/10 hand held I can get "sharp" (for 16,000 is legible and not blurry, but not crisp) photos from about 15 get at 600mm. Without I get a shaky shot. I think I'm going to go with the heat guys, but as I said, I'll confirm Wednesday. I've gotten great indoor shots of my iguana in my bedroom with it at higher ISO so I know it's capable. Post processing helps even more. As a side note I find myself using DPP more and paintshop pro x9/aftershot pro 3 less.


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## astroNikon (Jan 2, 2017)

I don't have the G2 model.
You'll have to read the instruction manual on the specifics of the VC of when to use it and when not to use it.  Also practice handholding techniques.

These big, long lenses are a pain to hold steady when your left hand is extended holding the lens up.

The Tamron instructions are *very* specific on how and when to use VC in the first version of the lens.  See page 2 for it.  Your lens should also have some instructions ==> https://s3.amazonaws.com/lenspro-me...2/Tamron-150-600mm-f-5-6.3-Di-VC-USD-Lens.pdf


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## astroNikon (Jan 2, 2017)

I cannot find the manual for 2, but this is what 1 states


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## weepete (Jan 3, 2017)

SuzukiGS750EZ said:


> So when should I have vc on? Yes, currently I do, handheld at all shutter speeds. Mode 3.



I only turn VC on if my handheld and shutter speed falls below the rule of thumb for camera shake (minimum shutter speed = 1/[focal length x crop factor]) or in other words some kind of VC could be used if my shutter speed is below 1/1000th sec at 600mm. Though I've found that personally I am reasonably happy shooting at 1/500th sec at 600mm if the subject does not have a lot of movement though I'm much happier if I can get 1/1000th sec.

With VC on (on my G1) I can get down to around 1/100th sec at 600mm but I don't use that often as normally there is some kind of movement in my subjects.


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## astroNikon (Jan 3, 2017)

I really like the added features of the G2 over the 1st version.
I might make the switch in the future if the financial gods cooperate.


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## SuzukiGS750EZ (Jan 3, 2017)

I'm glad I was able to purchase it. If i had my choice i would have gotten the canon 300mm f4 but this lens gave me more versatility and i heard it stacks up right with the sigma sport which i've also heard is heavier. All in all i have 0 complaints and i'm resting the blame solely on my shoulders, this thread was more of a "how do i improve and prevent the issues at hand" type thread but since multiple people have came to the same conclusion i did weeks ago about the heat (although i didn't think dirt in the air, etc. had an effect) i am going to try and get away from my house when i can and see if it still persists.


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## SuzukiGS750EZ (Jan 3, 2017)

For anybody interested, the G2 manual isn't on their website but i emailed customer service (awesome by the way, they replied within an hour) and they sent me a link to download the pdf for the lens, which i will keep on my phone as well as a reference.

http://tamron.cdngc.net/inst/pdf/a022inst_1607_en.pdf


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## Peeb (Jan 3, 2017)

DarkShadow said:


> Yes the shutter speeds should count for camera shake with or with out VC but won't help for missed focus or  front or back focus issue's it's not uncommon unfortunately  so just to rule out user area.*My first copy of my sigma 150-600 the OS Optical stabilization was a dude so I returned for a replacement*, the second copy was fine.


DarkShadow prefers female lenses...


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## Peeb (Jan 3, 2017)

OK- what NOT to do?  Attempt 600mm shot of supermoon handheld.

Forgot my tripod- duh!  Tried every trick in the book to make this usable in terms of Photoshop shake reduction, contrast tweaks, etc... it just wasn't capable of saving.

 Life at 600mm can be challenging...


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## ansarsubhan (May 13, 2018)

@SuzukiGS750EZ 
I am new to this forum.
I have the same problem. Hope everything is working fine for you.
What you did to do fix the Canon 80 D and Tamron 150 - 600 G2 sharpness issue.
Thanks in advance.


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