# Depression C&C welcome



## Rick58 (Dec 9, 2012)

View attachment 27979

Someone close to me suffers from depression. I felt this is a visual representation of daily life suffering from this disorder.


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## AgentDrex (Dec 9, 2012)

Just staring out the window, that about sums up the feeling of depression.  Good shot.  I like the fact that it feels busy outside yet inside it is sparse and alone.


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## ceeboy14 (Dec 9, 2012)

Yeah, ditto on that!


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## PixelRabbit (Dec 9, 2012)

Rings true, well done Rick.


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## Designer (Dec 9, 2012)

Rick, I like the interior, but IMO the outside is too bright a cheery.  Also IMO, depression sees no light at the end of the tunnel.  

Can you get the subject to pose for you?  BTW: it's all grey from their point of view.


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## Rick58 (Dec 9, 2012)

Thanks everyone. 
Designer, thank you also for your thoughts. It's a shame the outside comes through as "bright and cheery". 
In fact it was taken today, Dec. 9. The climate was cold, damp and rainy. Just a all around miserable day. I was really hoping to capture that emotion.  I  looked at it in B&W, but to me, I felt it lost a lot.


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## JackandSally (Dec 9, 2012)

I agree with Designer.  It definitely looks a little too bright outside.  Maybe if it were darker or grayer, just less "happy".  From some who suffered from depression for a long time, that actually looks comforting compared to what I was feeling.  :S


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## AgentDrex (Dec 9, 2012)

Here's my take on a less happy feel...a friend of mine suffers from depression and says his mind is always noisy with thoughts, so I added a little noise as well and made it look bleak:


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## DirtySocks85 (Dec 9, 2012)

Rick58 said:


> Thanks everyone.
> Designer, thank you also for your thoughts. It's a shame the outside comes through as "bright and cheery".
> In fact it was taken today, Dec. 9. The climate was cold, damp and rainy. Just a all around miserable day. I was really hoping to capture that emotion.  I  looked at it in B&W, but to me, I felt it lost a lot.



Did you try just lowering the saturation instead of going entirely B&W?


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## Overread (Dec 9, 2012)

Like a lot of things depression is often slightly different to different people in how its felt and affects them. In my view though I can see the message in this photo - or at least I can somewhat see the direction its aiming for. 

You've a dark, almost empty inside where the person is. No real feeling of warmth, comfort or well, of anything at all.
Then you've the window onto the outside world where everyone else is, behind a shut window. You can look out, you can see it all, but you can't get there. 


That is at least the message I feel that the photo is expressing in some form; but I don't think its quite there. It doesn't feel, as a photo, refined enough. Something about it just doesn't feel structured enough that, without the line telling me where to start thinking, I wouldn't have gone thinking in that direction. 

I think what it is is that the light outside is "drab". It's just a drab scene which isn't really speaking or saying much of its own which, when matched with the dead interior leaves the photo feeling just a little too close to a "lucky snapshot" side of things.


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## Rick58 (Dec 9, 2012)

Thanks Overread,

"Drab" was exactly the weather. Cold, damp, rainy winter day. This also MILDLY describes a persons emotions while suffering from depression.
I want to be clear in that I'm not disputing the critque here. The light coming from the window does seem brighter then the way the day felt. Unfortunately I'm not skilled enough to be able to hold back that light and still get the interior feeling the way I visioned it.

 I took 6 shots of this window while a tour was going on just outside of the frame to the right. None worked, including one that included a corner of the bed in this room, which I thought would also lend to the feeling of depression. I had to wait until the tour moved on to get the angle I felt worked. The lifeless trees were just a bonus towards the feeling I was looking for.
"Lucky snapshot"? I have to disagree. As soon as I saw the scene, the photo was in my head. It got VERY close to my vision. You're right. The average person may not tie the photo to the subject, but my mind saw it instantly. I thought I would put it through some C&C to see if it worked, and the results are mixed.
Even though you said the photo didn't quite hit the mark for you, I loved your description. That DID hit the mark


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## Rick58 (Dec 9, 2012)

AgentDrex said:


> Here's my take on a less happy feel...a friend of mine suffers from depression and says his mind is always noisy with thoughts, so I added a little noise as well and made it look bleak:
> 
> View attachment 27984


Thanks Drex, but in my eyes, You removed the cold fog and it looks like a sunny day, and changes the mood entirely. Maybe others see it differently.


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## AgentDrex (Dec 10, 2012)

You're welcome.  I kind of see what you mean and will keep that in mind.


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## The_Traveler (Dec 10, 2012)

Telling people what the picture is supposed to represent really taints the opinion pool.

It looks, if not cheery, at least sunny.


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## sm4him (Dec 10, 2012)

I get what you were going for, but here's my thoughts on it:

As someone who suffers from clinical depression (although--5 years since I've had a REAL depressive cycle, AND three of that without any meds at all--woot!), this is FAR different than what *I* "see" when I'm depressed.  My first thought was that you shouldn't be able to see out that window at all...but the more I think about it, it's just that the window is too close, too "accessible"--it looks too much as if I could reach out and touch what is out there in the world, like there is a very real possibility that I could even get up and go out there--yes, it's drab and gray (and looks like a bit of a chaotic mess, which is a good representation, to me), but it's at least OUTSIDE and it holds promise, and a little hope. And there is no hope in depression.
Also, the mug (or whatever it is) makes me think more of someone who has been sitting enjoying the morning, looking out at the nature around them, however drab the day may be.

Just my 1.75 cents' worth.


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## KenC (Dec 10, 2012)

I've had problems with this as well, and to me it conveys the feeling.  When it was bad, I often found myself staring out of windows.  Overread hit the nail on the head, at least for me, by pointing out that it looks nice outside, but that's not where you are.  I guess the experience is different for everyone.

It also seems depressing that there is no snack with that coffee, or at least the remains of one!


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## Frequency (Dec 10, 2012)

I liked the image very much; the empty bowl adds to the story much 
I think adding *C&CWelcome *along with caption takes away the beauty of the caption...how about adding an asterisk for that purpose? *Depression*
*Regards


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## PixelRabbit (Dec 10, 2012)

KenC said:


> I've had problems with this as well, and to me it conveys the feeling.  When it was bad, I often found myself staring out of windows.  Overread hit the nail on the head, at least for me, by pointing out that it looks nice outside, but that's not where you are.  I guess the experience is different for everyone.
> 
> It also seems depressing that there is no snack with that coffee, or at least the remains of one!



I agree with Ken, when I said in my first reply it "rings true" it does to me, even now I struggle with getting outside and even more of a struggle to be in social situations, I am very familiar with that glass barrier and the beautiful world on the other side just out of reach.


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## Rick58 (Dec 10, 2012)

sm4him said:


> I get what you were going for, but here's my thoughts on it:
> 
> As someone who suffers from clinical depression (although--5 years since I've had a REAL depressive cycle, AND three of that without any meds at all--woot!), this is FAR different than what *I* "see" when I'm depressed. My first thought was that you shouldn't be able to see out that window at all...but the more I think about it, it's just that the window is too close, too "accessible"--it looks too much as if I could reach out and touch what is out there in the world, like there is a very real possibility that I could even get up and go out there--yes, it's drab and gray (and looks like a bit of a chaotic mess, which is a good representation, to me), but it's at least OUTSIDE and it holds promise, and a little hope. And there is no hope in depression.
> Also, the mug (or whatever it is) makes me think more of someone  who has been sitting enjoying the morning, looking out at the nature around them, however drab the day may be.
> ...



Please don't feel I'm being argumentative. I feel this has left C&C and is more a discussion over a photo more then who's right or who's wrong and why. 
It's funny how photo's bring on different feelings to different people. The person I was thinking of suffers from Bipolar Disorder. I took this after 20 years of them trying to explain the feelings of loneliness and despair they experience during a depression cycle.
It's funny you mentioned the bowl, becuase this person saw the bowl as themself. Empty and only able to look out, knowing there's something out there but not being able to enter back into life. They even mentioned the bowl being off centered as feeling right. I just didn't like it centered in the picture, with no "symbolism" intended
This is probably the first photo I've ever taken that left an impact on someone and I feel very good about that. Sorry I continue to use terms as " the person" or "themself" but I respect 'this person's" privacy completely and have been asked not to discuss them, as a person, with anyone.


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## Rick58 (Dec 10, 2012)

Frequency said:


> I liked the image very much; the empty bowl adds to the story much
> I think adding *C&CWelcome *along with caption takes away the beauty of the caption...how about adding an asterisk for that purpose? *Depression*
> *Regards



 Thanks Freq. I couldn't agree more, but someone told me if I want comments I have to specifically ask, so I did 
BTW, thanks for the bowl comment, I must have been adding thoughts about that while you were sending yours. Thanks again for the comments


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## runnah (Dec 10, 2012)

I see relaxing, not depressing.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Dec 10, 2012)

Congrats to Rick for an attempt at trying something conceptual, rather than documentary.

It's very hard to express emotion using visual language. The combination of visual elements, and choicesof them are very important. Even things like which aspect ratio the image is presented, vertical or horizontal, can provide little visual cues to strengthen or weaken your intent. Throw a person in there, in specific if not cliche poses, and *BAM* you can easily hit the viewer over the head with your message.

You should take the mixed opinions as to whether you got your message across to suggest your visual cues are weak. As Traveler said, by labeling this image "depression" you tainted opinion, and thus, response to your image. This is a good case where if not labeled, if the viewer wasn't aware what you were trying to get across, you would have a more accurate measure of the success of the image.

I immediately related the image to "Sunday Morning" and having the leasure time to stare out the window and contemplate, with a nice, big, cup of hot coffee. The feeling of depression, in this image, just doesn't resonate with me. Since you ventured down the road of conceptualism, don't consider this project finished, and successful be cause you want it to be. Make it the start of your exploration into visual expression! Keep trying different things to make your position strong, and get it across without words.

Remember, you can look at the color red, and call it yellow, and believe its true. But it may only be true for you.
So again, I applaud your effort to step out of your comfort zone, and I hope to see you continue to experiment in this vein.


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## pixmedic (Dec 10, 2012)

this is a great example of the double edged sword when you name photos. 
on the one hand, half of the critique has been on the clinical diagnosis of "depression" and how this picture does or does not properly relate to it, and not on any technical aspects of the picture itself. 
on the other hand, without the title portraying the feeling/mood this picture is meant to convey, what are we left with? just a picture of a window? I wonder how would the C&C would differ if this picture were left unnamed? is the window the subject? or are we meant to be drawn to the cup?


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## Rick58 (Dec 10, 2012)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> Congrats to Rick for an attempt at trying something conceptual, rather than documentary.
> 
> It's very hard to express emotion using visual language. The combination of visual elements, and choicesof them are very important. Even things like which aspect ratio the image is presented, vertical or horizontal, can provide little visual cues to strengthen or weaken your intent. Throw a person in there, in specific if not cliche poses, and *BAM* you can easily hit the viewer over the head with your message.
> 
> ...





pixmedic said:


> this is a great example of the double edged sword when you name photos.
> on the one hand, half of the critique has been on the clinical diagnosis of "depression" and how this picture does or does not properly relate to it, and not on any technical aspects of the picture itself.
> on the other hand, without the title portraying the feeling/mood this picture is meant to convey, what are we left with? just a picture of a window? I wonder how would the C&C would differ if this picture were left unnamed? is the window the subject? or are we meant to be drawn to the cup?



Thanks guys. It's interesting how several people looked at it as relaxing and peaceful, and there really was no actual critque, as a photo. As a single purpose photo I guess, without knowing it, I had tunnel vision and was focused on the comments, but I am curious as to any critque anyone may have. I want to go back and re-take another, unrelated, interior photo. If this one has promise, but needs work, it might be worth a re-take.


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## Designer (Dec 10, 2012)

Rick58; I do not see your defense of the photo as "argumentative".  Your narrative about the subject's own impressions of the photo help a lot.  I think you have done a remarkably good job of attempting to portray a human condition by the use of a photograph, and it got us all thinking about it.

My own experience for such a photograph is the famous Dust-Bowl era photograph by Dorothea Lange, which was a woman sitting on her porch with her children close by.  

Good work!


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## Bitter Jeweler (Dec 10, 2012)

Rick58 said:


> ... and* there really was no actual critque, as a photo*. As a single purpose photo I guess, without knowing it, I had tunnel vision and was focused on the comments, but I am curious as to any critque anyone may have.




If your image is attempting to portray an emotion, or a concept, whether it was a success or failure to the viewer is certainly ACTUAL critique of your image.
It seems to me you have some confusion as to what critique is.
What do you want people to say about this image in regards to critique?


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## sm4him (Dec 10, 2012)

Rick58 said:


> sm4him said:
> 
> 
> > I get what you were going for, but here's my thoughts on it:
> ...



I don't see it as argumentative at all--although, you DID use slightly larger type on this response than on any others, so I feel a little bit "yelled at." :lmao: (I'm kidding)

I hope that YOU won't see it as argumentative when I disagree that my response strayed from C&C into "right or wrong." If you got that sense, it was certainly NOT my intent.  But, as has been mentioned, when you titled the photo, you brought certain opinions into it, and FOR ME, I could not critique the photo APART from the title.  Because MY PERSONAL OPINION, which has been partly *formed* by my own struggles with depression, is that this photo does not convey what depression is, TO ME.  But depression is such an individual demon that a photo that "nails it" for some won't work at all for others.
If I seemed to suggest ANYwhere that the photo was "wrong" I apologize; I try to refrain from ever saying a photo is "bad" or "wrong"--there's no such thing. I can only say if it worked FOR ME. And this one didn't, IN LIGHT OF the title.



Rick58 said:


> Thanks guys. It's interesting how several people looked at it as relaxing and peaceful, and there really was no actual critque, as a photo. As a single purpose photo I guess, without knowing it, I had tunnel vision and was focused on the comments, but I am curious as to any critque anyone may have. I want to go back and re-take another, unrelated, interior photo. If this one has promise, but needs work, it might be worth a re-take.



Again, I disagree that there was no actual critique--rather the critique became tied to the title, which is what happens when we title our work. Not saying you "should" or "shouldn't"--each option is just different.
If this had not been titled, I *think* (although it's a bit difficult for me to now try to remove the "depression" label from the photo and see it subjectively) I would have said that overall I like it, because it does evoke some emotions for me. I would imagine sitting in a room one early stormy winter's day, enjoying my coffee and snuggling under the blanket, looking out at the dreary weather and longing for the winter to pass and spring to arrive. But in the lightness outside the windows, FOR ME, there is HOPE that Spring *will* come. That's what the picture, on its own, does for me. My one negative about it would be the "chaotic" scene outside with all the branches going every which way and causing disorder. Those interrupt the peace I otherwise feel about the photo.

One final thing:
You mention that this was taken for a specific person, to convey THEIR feelings visually. If they feel you "nailed it", then, in fact, you nailed it. Because you were going for an image that depicts THEIR struggle. It really doesn't have to work for anyone else.


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## runnah (Dec 10, 2012)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> I immediately related the image to "Sunday Morning" and having the leasure time to stare out the window and contemplate, with a nice, big, cup of hot coffee. The feeling of depression, in this image, just doesn't resonate with me. Since you ventured down the road of conceptualism, don't consider this project finished, and successful be cause you want it to be. Make it the start of your exploration into visual expression! Keep trying different things to make your position strong, and get it across without words.



Exactly. This reminds me of a rainy sunday morning where I get to sit in my chair and look out in the backyard and not have to worry about yard work or projects. Just relaxing.


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## Rick58 (Dec 10, 2012)

sm4him said:


> Rick58 said:
> 
> 
> > sm4him said:
> ...





runnah said:


> Bitter Jeweler said:
> 
> 
> > I immediately related the image to "Sunday Morning" and having the leasure time to stare out the window and contemplate, with a nice, big, cup of hot coffee. The feeling of depression, in this image, just doesn't resonate with me. Since you ventured down the road of conceptualism, don't consider this project finished, and successful be cause you want it to be. Make it the start of your exploration into visual expression! Keep trying different things to make your position strong, and get it across without words.
> ...




Thanks folks, 
Sm4him, I was only afraid it was going to look like I was defending the photo, which was not the case. I didn't mean to offend you or anyone else. Actually I find it interesting that I missed the target for so many people. Actually it left the emotion of peacefulness for most. To some it's locked up and withdrawn and others it peaceful and relaxing. Maybe it all depends on your current outlook on life.
BTW, I really hate refering to people by their screen names. I really need to go back to the names thread make myself a cheat sheet.


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## sm4him (Dec 10, 2012)

Rick58 said:


> Thanks folks,
> Sm4him, I was only afraid it was going to look like I was defending the photo, which was not the case. I didn't mean to offend you or anyone else. Actually I find it interesting that I missed the target for so many people. Actually it left the emotion of peacefulness for most. To some it's locked up and withdrawn and others it peaceful and relaxing. Maybe it all depends on your current outlook on life.
> BTW, I really hate refering to people by their screen names. I really need to go back to the names thread make myself a cheat sheet.



No offense taken, at all. In person, this whole thread would be friendly, and highly interesting. Hard to convey the right "tones" with only some typed words on a screen.

And it's Sharon...although I've also been SM for years, ever since I worked at a publishing company where, for some odd reason, we tended to call each other by our initials.


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## PixelRabbit (Dec 10, 2012)

Hey Rick, you mentioned critique as a photo, taking everything in the thread into account I'll give it a go.

I'm glad you named the picture, it stated your intent and the feedback it generated tells us where the image is falling short for some people and where it is hitting the mark with others.

I would say that for this to hit the mark for a wider range of people you have to add another dimension to the shot, the central elements are good but it needs something else to add another visual cue.  A couple ways came to mind are, add another "prop" in the window, a person, a wilted/dead flower with a slumped posture, a photograph of the past, piece of paper with something on it, a repeating item that the person would take to the window each day piling up, perhaps ask the person this is representing for something symbolic that they feel fits.
Depending on the surroundings you can also convey feeling with angle and scale, having the window small and in a corner surrounded by wall, being overpowered by the inside, from a lower angle to have the window towering and intimidating. Again perhaps ask the person this represents to attach a feeling to the window and see how you can relate that by the size and position of the window in the frame.

I'm really looking forward to seeing what you come up with!


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## Rick58 (Dec 10, 2012)

sm4him said:


> Rick58 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks folks,
> ...



Thanks Sharon, It has been an interesting break from the "What the heck were you thinking when you took this critques"


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## Rick58 (Dec 10, 2012)

PixelRabbit said:


> Hey Rick, you mentioned critique as a photo, taking everything in the thread into account I'll give it a go.
> 
> I'm glad you named the picture, it stated your intent and the feedback it generated tells us where the image is falling short for some people and where it is hitting the mark with others.
> 
> ...



Thanks Pix,

Several people have mentioned the addition of some extra props or a person. Without givng it away, I have some strong ideas that hopefully will change this from a lazy, rainy, Sunday photo to one that will produce the emotions I'm after.
I see what everything one is saying. Taking my feelings (and those who the photo is intended for) out of the equation, there really isn't much that says depression. A casual viewer can't see the cold, dark, damp room I was standing in and even the weather conditions of the day aren't truely displayed in the photo. I need to have another go at it.


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## FanBoy (Dec 10, 2012)

Interesting how you have drawn the analogy of someone's feelings to an inanimate object, i.e. the bowl. The empty bowl behind the paneled window might portray how paralyzing depression might get.

However I also feel that a stronger depiction would need the human element.


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## manaheim (Dec 11, 2012)

Rick! Yes! NOT an inventory shot.  Nice!


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## manaheim (Dec 11, 2012)

Btw I think the outside is fine.  Outside brighter.., inside darker... With a hazy window in between.  Separation.  It works well.


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## Rick58 (Dec 11, 2012)

FanBoy said:


> Interesting how you have drawn the analogy of someone's feelings to an inanimate object, i.e. the bowl. The empty bowl behind the paneled window might portray how paralyzing depression might get.
> 
> However I also feel that a stronger depiction would need the human element.



Thanks Fan, but I can't take credit for the bowl analogy. When I showed this to the person it was intended for, they just said "...and that's me, an empty bowl sitting in the dark. peaking out of the corner of the window, not wanted to be seen. I would want to go out, but I just can't." I personally just so an empty bowl sitting in the center of a window sill that looked better to the side.

Last night I had some ideas to try and change it, but when I mentioned doing it, I was immediately asked not to, stating these were my first thoughts and if I did, it woulldn't be the same. So, this one is going to be framed into an 8x10 and hung by someone's bedroom window.


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## Rick58 (Dec 11, 2012)

Thanks a lot Manny!


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## STIC (Dec 11, 2012)

...


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## Rick58 (Dec 11, 2012)

If I named this, I'd say "Lonely"


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## STIC (Dec 11, 2012)

...


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## pixmedic (Dec 11, 2012)

STIC said:


> You see, you see lonely, i see peaceful and quiet...



Thats the difference between someine suffering from depression, and someone that isnt.


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## Rick58 (Dec 11, 2012)

pixmedic said:


> STIC said:
> 
> 
> > You see, you see lonely, i see peaceful and quiet...
> ...


Close, but I'm not suffering from depression. I may be more sensitive towards the issues, but this wasn't one of those "I have a friend who" stories. 
I really *DO* have a "friend" who... no I really do 

Now, that doesn't say they'd have to dig very deep to find something on me


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