# manual focus tips?



## camerateur (May 13, 2012)

I prefer shooting with manual focus, (nothing worse than the pain of the camera focusing on the background or what not and missing a great shot)
but I notice (esp when the subject isn't in the majority of the shot)
that what I am manual focusing on is sometimes out of focus even when I THOUGHT it looked sharp in viewfinder /:
when something is that small in the viewfinder, how do you know if its perfectly sharp?

is it just me? my eyesight? I thought I had perfect vision.. but this makes me want to get an eye exam.
 are higher quality slr view finders better designed for something like this??

any tips?
my camera doesn't have live view btw. in case that's one of your tips


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## imagemaker46 (May 13, 2012)

Start off getting your eyes checked, check your camera and make sure there are no issues with it.  If it all looks ok, you can practice by sitting on the side of the road and focus on moving car licence plates, coming towards you and going away, once you start to nail that, you'll never have focus problems again.


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## Patriot (May 13, 2012)

You can adjust the diopter on the view finder to better suit your eyes.


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## fokker (May 13, 2012)

It is difficult on most DSLR's but it will come with practice. In my case I have a 5Dmk2 which has a nice big bright viewfinder and makes manual focusing easier than small-sensor cameras.


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## MTVision (May 13, 2012)

Graystar said:
			
		

> You didn't say what kind of camera you have, but I'll presume it's a modern DSLR.  Modern cameras are not meant to be manually focused.  If you want to manually focus your camera, you need to install a focus screen.  We'd need to know the camera model to know if there's a focus screen available.
> 
> A focus screen is a screen for the viewfinder that contains an out-of-focus indicator.  A common type is the split-circle screen, where there's a circle in the center of the viewfinder and the image in the circle is split and misaligned.  When the image is aligned, the camera is in perfect focus.
> 
> ...



Everything said above is right on. I have a couple manual focus lens and they were hard to get use to. Sometimes (especially if the subject is far away) its hard to tell if I nailed the focus. On my camera (Nikon d5100) there is a little green light focus indicator but like gray star mentioned above it runs on the autofocus system. If your camera can't AF (due to low light or whatever) then the green light won't come on either. 

Autofocus works great 90% of the time. The camera shouldn't focus on anything besides what you are telling it to focus on. Have you read your manual? There are many different AF modes/area modes. My camera came out of the box wIth the camera controlling the autofocus completely. I would point the camera at something and a bunch of the focus points would light up - the camera was choosing what and where to focus. Not sure what camera you have but if it's a DSLR you can change it. 

I use a single focal point to autofocus. It's very accurate - the only time the camera has issues is in low light and/or low contrast. I use back button focusing (AF on that was mentioned above) but I do move the focus point to where I want it. I would highly suggest looking through the manual to find out about the different AF modes.


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## bs0604 (May 13, 2012)

does installing a focus screen still allow the option of using the camera's autofocus?


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## Patriot (May 13, 2012)

bs0604 said:


> does installing a focus screen still allow the option of using the camera's autofocus?


 


According to the katzeye website the screens doesnt affect anything else.


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## MTVision (May 13, 2012)

bs0604 said:
			
		

> does installing a focus screen still allow the option of using the camera's autofocus?



Yeah.


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## TCampbell (May 13, 2012)

For most DSLRs, the phase-detection AF sensors are on the FLOOR of the sensor body chamber, and the focus screen is on the ROOF of the same chamber.  In theory, you should be able to do anything to the screen on the top and it should have no impact on the sensors down in the floor.

It's easier to manually focus full-frame and 35mm film cameras because the viewfinder is huge and has more light.  Also... 35mm cameras had the split-prism focusing aid in the center.  You can buy different focus screens for many DSLRs -- some recommend that you only use f/2.8 or faster lenses with these (yes, you can technically use slower lenses, but they work best with fast lenses.)

HOWEVER... it seems like your original post says you're frustrated with the camera picking the wrong focus point and missing the shot and THAT is the motive for wanting to do manual focus.  This is where I wonder what make/model camera you have.  I'm wondering if, rather than going the route of manual focus, you might benefit from learning how to control the AF system.  For example, Canon has a 3-part video (takes about 1.5 hours to watch the whole thing) that explains how the system works in some detail.  Once you understand the details of how the system was designed to work, what it's "thinking" and how to control it, you can naturally just look at the shot you're about to take and you'll know instantly how the camera will attempt to focus and what it'll try to lock onto.  At this point you know when you can rely it (when it'll lock onto your subject) or when you should take control.

When manually focusing, my camera has an option as to whether it'll light up the AF points which it believes I've got in focus and also it'll optionally chirp.  But this setting could be on or off so depending on which camera you own and what options you have, it may be something you need to check.

Many (probably most) DSLRs have a dial next to the eyepiece that adjusts for eyesight.  Due to the way eyes & optics work, it's possible to for a person with non-perfect vision to achieve (what this believe is) perfect focus.  They snap the photo.  When they inspect the photos they realize they were not in focus.  Basically if your eyesight isn't perfect then you have to use the adjustment to compensate so that when it appears to be in focus "to you" it'll also appear to be in focus for the camera.

I let the camera auto-focus most of the time (I do have one specialty lens (tilt-shift) which is manual focus only).  I usually manually focus macro shots because I want to control the over-all location of the DoF.  So I have an angle-finder with magnifies either 1.25x or 2.5x.  This allows me to get VERY good focus -- but it's the kind of accessory that you only use when you can take your time -- the sorts of shots you can carefully set up while using a tripod.  For most walking around photography, candids, etc. an angle finder would hinder more than it would help.


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## KmH (May 13, 2012)

Start with the focus *in front of* your intended point of focus.

Turn the focus ring past the point of focus to *just slightly behind* your intended point of focus.

Your eye has now seen what sharp focus looks like.

Reverse the direction you turn the focus ring on the lens, and return to the sharp focus your eye just saw.

A split prism focus screen, like those from KatzEye Optics - Custom Focusing Screens is vey handy. Todays DSLR cameras are not configured for doing manual focus.


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## Buckster (May 13, 2012)

TCampbell said:


> Many (probably most) DSLRs have a dial next to the eyepiece that adjusts for eyesight.  Due to the way eyes & optics work, it's possible to for a person with non-perfect vision to achieve (what this believe is) perfect focus.  They snap the photo.  When they inspect the photos they realize they were not in focus.  Basically if your eyesight isn't perfect then you have to use the adjustment to compensate so that when it appears to be in focus "to you" it'll also appear to be in focus for the camera.


Just to chime in a bit on this diopter adjustment, be sure that the little black AF points markers that you see in the viewfinder all the time are in perfect focus when you adjust the diopter wheel.  When they are, then you know your diopter is set correctly for your eye.  From there, anything else in focus in your viewfinder should also be in focus in the final image.

For most of my shooting years, all I ever had was manual focus cameras and lenses. After that, I _*LOVE*_ AF, but I must say, it's spoiled me a bit.  After some 10 years shooting mostly digital bodies with AF lenses, I now have a Canon 500mm f/4.5 L _*FD-Mount*_ lens wearing an adapter for my EF bodies.   That means no AF on it for me - manual only.  It's been a chore getting back into the swing of quickly getting a good focus on a subject, but it's coming along with practice, and the results of this lens are worth it.  Still, I now have a reason to change my focusing screen yet again, this time to one with a split prism, and maybe also a surrounding prism pattern, plus grid (for the 5DMKII).  I think on the 7D, I only need the addition of the prism, and the 7D will still project the grid for me - I'll have to look into that a bit more.


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## DanPower (May 13, 2012)

Thanks for the great answers posted so far.  I have also been having some difficulties manually focusing my 550d and these gave me a lot to think about.

TCampbell - do you have a link to the Canon videos you mentioned?  I would love to see them but google can't seem to find them.  Thanks.

EDIT: I think I've found them, here are the links in case others are looking:



> Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAx86nblZ2g
> Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_F7lCvp5DI
> Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WTWiN9kLts


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## belial (May 13, 2012)

bs0604 said:
			
		

> does installing a focus screen still allow the option of using the camera's autofocus?



Yes although an aftermarket focus screen quite often kills the focus point confirmation in the view finder (usually a little red dot over the active focus point. The autofocus feature doesn't rely on the focus screen so nothing else is affected


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## belial (May 13, 2012)

TCampbell said:
			
		

> ..... Canon has a 3-part video (takes about 1.5 hours to watch the whole thing) that explains how the system works in some detail.



You don't by chance have a link to that video or could point me in the right direction could you? I lobe stuff like that


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## Buckster (May 13, 2012)

belial said:


> bs0604 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It didn't kill anything on my 5DMKII, nor have I heard of it killing that feature on any other bodies.  Do you have a link or something to further information on that?


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## Buckster (May 13, 2012)

belial said:


> TCampbell said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Here's a quote from page 1 of this thread that has it:





DanPower said:


> Thanks for the great answers posted so far.  I  have also been having some difficulties manually focusing my 550d and  these gave me a lot to think about.
> 
> TCampbell - do you have a link to the Canon videos you mentioned?  I  would love to see them but google can't seem to find them.  Thanks.
> 
> ...


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## belial (May 13, 2012)

DanPower said:
			
		

> EDIT: I think I've found them, here are the links in case others are looking:
> 
> Part 1: YouTube Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAx86nblZ2g
> Part 2: YouTube Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_F7lCvp5DI
> Part 3: YouTube Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WTWiN9kLts



Thanks so much. I'm downloading them now so I can watch  them without signal interruption later


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## TCampbell (May 13, 2012)

Yes - the links Dan provided are the same videos I was referring to.


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## Patriot (May 14, 2012)

Do anyone know how to get the beep when manual focusing on the D7000. Im having to use the little green dot that jumps around when hand holding. I dont know about anyone else but trying to watch that dot and the subject is not something my eyes like.


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## camerateur (May 14, 2012)

thanks so much you guys!! this has given me a lot to think about. I apologize in the original post I didn't state I have a d3000,
so i am going to try to understand my focus points better, I think I have it set off to the right 1 of my 11 focus points right now..
and my diopter is set correctly, so its not an issue like that..
just hard to tell in a tiny viewfinder.


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## enzodm (May 14, 2012)

By the way, standard focusing screens, due to their microprisms, do no reveal real depth of field over some aperture ( I found values between f/2.8 and f/4). This means that if you manually focus with a fast lens, looking only at the viewfinder, you will not recognise the finest differences in focus, because DoF is somewhat extended by the focusing screen. On the other side, more precise focusing screens work well at larger apertures but become dimmer at smaller apertures, so is easier to work in stop-down. With static subjects, the best option is to use live view with magnification.
Canon, Rebels excluded, have also Canon-branded focusing screens (I have one on my 60D, for my collection of old manual lenses). 
However, as TCampbell suggests, your problem may be related in your way of using AF.


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## belial (May 14, 2012)

Buckster said:
			
		

> Here's a quote from page 1 of this thread that has it:



Yeah. I wasn't refreshing the page enough. That's what happens when you're processing raw and reading forums at the same time.


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## MTVision (May 14, 2012)

camerateur said:
			
		

> thanks so much you guys!! this has given me a lot to think about. I apologize in the original post I didn't state I have a d3000,
> so i am going to try to understand my focus points better, I think I have it set off to the right 1 of my 11 focus points right now..
> and my diopter is set correctly, so its not an issue like that..
> just hard to tell in a tiny viewfinder.



It is hard with the tiny viewfinder. But you should have a green in focus indicator that will work in most cases. It would probably be all the way to the left when your looking in the viewfinder. Just make sure that your af area mode isn't set to auto because the camera will then determine where to focus.


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## Derrel (May 14, 2012)

camerateur said:


> thanks so much you guys!! this has given me a lot to think about. I apologize in the original post I didn't state I have a d3000,
> so i am going to try to understand my focus points better, I think I have it set off to the right 1 of my 11 focus points right now..
> and my diopter is set correctly, so its not an issue like that..
> just hard to tell in a tiny viewfinder.



The D3100's small, low-magnification, penta-mirror viewfinder is one of the tougher ones you will encounter when it comes to ascertaining manual focus accuracy. It's really not a good viewfinder...but then, they needed to keep the weight and cost down to keep the price so competitive. Making the problem difficult are lenses like the 18-55 kit zoom, with their hair-trigger manual focusing action; with the 18-55, a couple of millimeters of movement of the focusing ring can move the focusing distance 10 to 30 feet, depending on the distance...and it's VERY hard to be accurate or precise or repeatable with that kind of mechanism in the lens working against you. Then, add in the low-magnification, small, low-contrast viewfinder and...man...you're going to have issues...


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## EIngerson (May 14, 2012)

I'm not trying to sound snide or hateful, so please don't take my post that way. The camera you have has a nice enough auto focus system and shouldn't give you any issues focusing on your subject. If your camera is focusing on something other than your intended subject, 99 times out of 100 I would say you're allowing it to. For instance, many people try to shoot moving subjects on one shot vice AI servo. Another possibility is you're using Auto focus instead of manually selecting the focal point you want to use. 

If you just prefer to use manual focus to use manual focus so be it. It has it's uses, but it is not practical for every situation. Either way you go, have fun and enjoy your photography.

Eric


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## DanPower (May 14, 2012)

Buckster said:


> belial said:
> 
> 
> > bs0604 said:
> ...



I've been reading up on focus screens since I found this thread, and I spotted this on the Katzeye website under Grid Lines and Crop Guides:
_
Canon® 400D/450D AF Rectangles
__The standard KatzEye&#8482; focusing screens for the Canon 400D and 450D do not include the rectangles which mark the locations of the AF points. If you want the AF rectangles, please select this option when you add your screen to the cart. *This pattern is only available on the Canon 400D (Rebel XTi) and Canon 450D (Rebel XSi) cameras, and as noted in the product description, addition of this option will still not allow the AF points to illuminate.
*_
I don't really know anything about this but I just thought I'd share that finding.  I have no idea whether it affects other models, but according to the Katzeye website you lose your AF illumination on the 400D and 450D.

EDIT: after another look at that page it also appears you lose the illuminating function on the 350D and the 1000D.

EDIT 2: I had a quick look at some other models, according to the Katzeye website the 550/600D also will not illuminate, the 10D and 20D will not, but the 7D *will.*  Maybe there is a difference in the models but my quick peek at the site tells me anything below a 7D loses it's AF point illumination.  Unfortunately the 7D is the highest model Canon they list so there's no more info after that.

Anyways as I said I don't really know anything about this stuff, that's just information I found on the Katzeye site.  Moral here I guess is to do your homework before buying stuff!


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## Buckster (May 14, 2012)

DanPower said:


> Buckster said:
> 
> 
> > belial said:
> ...


You're misreading it.  You don't lose the illumination which is built into the camera itself, but you lose the little square black targets to use for figuring out where the AF is going to be working, which are printed onto the screen (or not, in the cases you're citing).

This becomes very clear the first time you change out a focusing screen and see what's on it.  There's nothing electronic about it.  It's just a little flat piece of plastic with etching and drawings on it that show the grid and/or AF point targets.  The actual AF action, including the illumination, is coming from and controlled elsewhere, and it couldn't care less what piece of plastic is up there in the focusing screen slot.


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## DanPower (May 14, 2012)

Buckster, as I said I'm new to all this, I'm just pasting information I've found.... and you may well be right in that I'm misreading it... *but*.... this seems pretty clear to me:

*



			Canon® 400D/450D AF Rectangles
		
Click to expand...

*


> _The standard KatzEye&#8482; focusing screens for the Canon 400D and 450D do not include the rectangles which mark the locations of the AF points. If you want the AF rectangles, please select this option when you add your screen to the cart. This pattern is only available on the Canon 400D (Rebel XTi) and Canon 450D (Rebel XSi) cameras, and as noted in the product description, *addition of this option will still not allow the AF points to illuminate*._


Also at Canon 550D 600D T2i T3i Focusing Screen it says: 



> If you want the AF area rectangles, please be sure to select the appropriate option below when adding the screen to your cart.* Please be aware though, that even with the rectangles marked, the red dots will still not light*. All other viewfinder information displays function as intended.



I guess actual practical implementation might differ, maybe they say that *just in case* the dots don't light?  Also I imagine different brands of focus screens might differ as well.  But according to the Katzeye website, you lose the red dots on every model of focus screen they make except the 7D...


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## Buckster (May 14, 2012)

DanPower said:


> Buckster, as I said I'm new to all this, I'm just pasting information I've found.... and you may well be right in that I'm misreading it... *but*.... this seems pretty clear to me:
> 
> *
> 
> ...


I stand corrected.  Must be something special in that regard about those particular camera models and the way the focusing screen interacts with them.  Can't say it makes any sense to me.  I'd love to compare the original screen with the replacement to see if there's something about the shape that's different and that might press or not press something in the focusing screen slot that activates/deactivates the AF illumination.

At least it confirmed that the AF itself still functions normally, including a green dot/chirp when focus is achieved.

Come to think of it though, it would probably be irritating as all getout to have the center AF illuminate in the middle of your split prism, so it's probably a good thing for those types of focusing screens that it doesn't.


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## DanPower (May 14, 2012)

> I'd love to compare the original screen with the replacement to see if there's something about the shape that's different and that might press or not press something in the focusing screen slot that activates/deactivates the AF illumination.




End facts, begin complete and utter speculation........ I'm new to photography, but mechanics and electronics I'm pretty comfy with.  I don't reckon it's a mechanical issue (e.g. the shape of the screen or a tab on the side of it or something)... if so, Katzeye would have quite easily figured out how to get it to work and they wouldn't have this problem.  My guess is that the AF illuminating lights are very very very low power and are introduced before the focusing screen, the light is enough to show up in the viewfinder but since that light source is so close to our eye the actual energy required to illuminate the point would be three fifths of #$%! all.... maybe due to the matte surface of the Katzeye the tiny itty bit of light is diffused enough that we can't see it, so simply by design the replacement screen just isn't capable of transferring that light to us?  As I said, pure speculation... I'm more than likely wrong, but that's just my quick guess.... 

That being said, I'm now extremely curious to know why the 7D (and on your account the 5D) work while the x0D and below don't.  There must be a difference in the system, maybe the light to illuminate the points in the 7D+ is introduced after the screen?  I don't know, as I said I've got my speculating hat on now  I'm sure someone who knows the really intimate workings of these cameras could tell us in a few words.

But this is good news for me, I was bummed when I read about the dots not working but I envision a 7D in the next couple of years so it's nice to know I can have the best of both worlds there


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## bs0604 (May 14, 2012)

I am intested in the manual focus question because I have been doing HDR where I need to bracket 3 photos.  I have noticed that in autofocus mode (Nikon D90 --but hopefully soon to have my preordered D800) the lens will shift a few mm in between shots as I take the bracketed pics with the final image I imagine being degraded by the slightly different focuses of each picture.  What I have been doing is either manually focussing to avoid this problem, or in AF mode halfway depress the shutter button to bring in to play autofocus and then switch the selector from AF to M on the lens barrell.  Am I correct is assuming this is a proper way to handle this problem?


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## Buckster (May 14, 2012)

bs0604 said:


> I am intested in the manual focus question because I have been doing HDR where I need to bracket 3 photos.  I have noticed that in autofocus mode (Nikon D90 --but hopefully soon to have my preordered D800) the lens will shift a few mm in between shots as I take the bracketed pics with the final image I imagine being degraded by the slightly different focuses of each picture.  What I have been doing is either manually focussing to avoid this problem, or in AF mode halfway depress the shutter button to bring in to play autofocus and then switch the selector from AF to M on the lens barrell.  Am I correct is assuming this is a proper way to handle this problem?


If you're on a tripod and the thing you've got your focus point on isn't moving, it shouldn't be an issue.

In any case, getting a focus lock and then switching to manual is a completely valid and effective way to deal with it.


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## Buckster (May 14, 2012)

DanPower said:


> > I'd love to compare the original screen with the replacement to see if there's something about the shape that's different and that might press or not press something in the focusing screen slot that activates/deactivates the AF illumination.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Curiosity got the better of my, so I simply contacted KatzEye Optics and asked.  Here's their reply: 





			
				Rachel Katz said:
			
		

> Hi Buck,
> 
> It's really pretty simple: in most SLR cameras with superimposed illuminated focus points, the illumination is accomplished by shining a light toward the focusing screen (from near the eye) and reflecting that light back to your eye with a tiny reflector.  In some models, that tiny reflector is built into the focusing screen and manufacturing considerations are such that reproduction of the reflector in the small quantities used in this niche application is just cost-prohibitive, so the reflector is omitted and the light does not get reflected back to the eye.  Thanks again for your interest in KatzEye Optics products and if you have any other questions, please feel free to ask.
> 
> ...


Mystery solved!  :thumbup:


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## DanPower (May 14, 2012)

Cheers Buckster, will keep that little gem of information stored safely until it's needed... BUT now we know why the x0D and below cameras DONT work, I'd love to know why the 7D+ cameras DO work!  Must be a difference in the system, she quoted a cost issue and the replacement screens are similarly priced so it must have something to do with the in-camera system?

EDIT: never mind, I think it's already been answered....



> _In _*some models,*_ that ti__ny reflector is built into the focusing screen_


_

_


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