# Camera Identification help



## liljon1220

Hello all,  Just looking for some help on identifiying this camera. It is my cousn's and should be from WW2 era as was collected by his father. Thanks for your help and assistance! John


----------



## xjoewhitex

I tried my luck on google but I couldn't find much, but the writing applys for the lens alone. What does it happen to read on that plate below the lens?


----------



## compur

Photos don't show much but it appears to be a Plaubel.


----------



## HughGuessWho

It looks like a Korona I would guess 1930'. That's my guess.


----------



## xjoewhitex

compur said:


> Photos don't show much but it appears to be a Plaubel.


But that could be just the lens, on a different body. I wonder if they're any markings anywhere on the body?


----------



## HughGuessWho

xjoewhitex said:


> compur said:
> 
> 
> 
> Photos don't show much but it appears to be a Plaubel.
> 
> 
> 
> But that could be just the lens, on a different body. I wonder if they're any markings anywhere on the body?
Click to expand...

Yes, Plaubel is just the lens, not the body. I have several Korona's and the lens mount certainly looks like that.


----------



## IanG

Try looking at some German cameras, it's not made in the US so definitely not a Korona.

Ernemann used Plaubel lenses occassionally before Plaubel started making their own cameras in 1910, this one's almost certainly pre-WWI. You'll need to search hard but Ernemann also used a front standard like that with the thin sppindle posts 1906-9 

Ernemannhad begun making their own lenses by f 1908 so from that point wwas no longer reliant on Zeiss, Goerz and other manufactuers  lenses. Plaubel were distributers and lens manufacturers at that point so may have lost contracts hence begining their own manufacture of cameras.

Ian


----------



## IanG

Just a follow up, while looking for some accessories for my 9x12 cameras I've just come across 3  cameras that are quite similar, all  dating from about 1898 to 1909. Most importantly they are using Bausch & Lomb shutters. The main differences are the focus bed track.

As Plaubel was founded in 1902 this gives you a time frame of about 1902-1910. Bausch & Lomb had replaced the UNi*** shutter by the Voloute and Compound it's not in their 1910 catalogue.

Ian


----------



## compur

These are some Plaubel "Peco" plate cameras:
















Plaubel made a number of similar models in the 1920s-30s.

Of course, the OP's camera could just be a Plaubel lens transplant on another camera but that is why I suggested that more photos were necessary.


----------



## IanG

The OP's camera was almost certainly fitted with it's shutter and Plaubel lens at the time of manufacture, the camera body, lens and shutter are all contemporary for the period 1902-1910.

Appart from Ernemann there's one other possibility and I've identified the manufacturer of the OP's camera 

*The camera was made by  Dr R Krügener* who died in 1913. Some of his later cameras use a Delta shutter, this appears to be a reworked Uni***, perhaps licensed to him after B&L switched to the Volute and Compound.

This Camera-wiki link shows a later Krügener roll film camera but note that the front standard, focus track etc are the same, a UK collector has a similar camera to the OP but fitted with a Dr R. Krugener Extra-Rapid Apianat lens.  There appear to have been a lot of models so identifying the exact one would  mean getting access to German publications of that period or company sales leaflets.

The company merged with others to become ICA in 1909. In 1910 Ica used the same front standard on a 9x12 camera but with a Compound shutter. The Compound shutters were made using technology from the Uni***, there was cross licensing between B&L and Deckel, as there was between B&L and Zeiss.

Ian


----------



## IanG

The board's software is editing Uni***  -  *U N I C U M* 

Ian


----------



## liljon1220

Thank you to all who have responded. I am attaching some additional pictures for your review. It says on thetag on the right side of the box Palaubel & Co. Frankfurt A/M. Also when reviewing your responses, there are 3 metal sleeves, that I assume would have  to be put into the back of the rear bellows and hold the film. I am a  point and shoot guy so please don't laugh to hard when you read my  descriptions. Thanks again!! John


----------



## IanG

Plaubel were distributors and selling cameras for other companies as well as being lens manufacturer from 1902 before launching their own cameras in 1910. So a Plaubel badge on a Krügener camera would make sense. Marion & Co in the UK sold some Krügener cameras but had styopped by 1898. It was very common for distributors to badge cameras with their own name, a practice that only died out in recent years, Honeywell Pentax being a good example.

Adverts for 1910 (published late 1909) show many second-hand cameras being sold with Uni*** shutters but Bausch and Lomb had the Automat and the Volute (and later in the year the Compound) which were more reliable and most new cameras using a B&L shutter were using the Automat. The Ibsor had also been released which is a German shutter, the forerunner to the Prontor, some early Plaubel  used this shutter which again is very reliable. The Deckel Compound was coming into use as well.

Two companies Plaubel were associated with Ernemann and Krügener both changed direction in 1908/9 which is almost certainly why Plaubel began making their own cameras in 1910. The reason for the merger to form ICA was Carl Zeiss wanting to ensure the market for it's lenses, Ernemann were also due to be part of the merger but pulled out at the last minute going on to set up its own lens manufacture.

The metal holders are for glass plates, it's highly unlikely they have film insert. The longer holder may not give a light tight fit, or vice versa, there was no uniform standard fo these plate holders so there's quite a few variations. Films inserts do show up on ebay every now and again but can often be expensive, however they are a standard fit to match the glass plate size.  

Assuming it's a 9x12 camera which was Krügener's most common plate format then film is easy to get in Europe as it's still a standard size and Freestyle stock it in the US.

I picked up and held one of these cameras with a B&L Uni*** shutter earlier this year and contemplated buying it, they were sold in the UK by Houghtons under their Ensign brand name. It's all coming back to me now, I didn't buy it at the time for two reasons, I think it may have been a smaller format (than 9x12) and the shutter and particularly the lens wasn't good. Checking online the roll film Ensign model V is in fact identical to a Krügener made camera there was also a plate version, so Houghton's must have taken over from Marion's as the agents for Krügener.  Houghtons continued to sell German style metal 9x12 (1/4 plate) cameras under their own name but I've not thought to check just who's until now 

I did buy an Ensign Selfix 820 camera that day instead but post WWII (probably late 1940's), but I have two wood and brass Houghtons circa 1905-20 and somewhere a 1950's Ensign FulUe, hence my interest in Houghton cameras.

I'm now 110% sure that this camera was made by Krügener.  The front standard is unique to Krügener, it's the same on the 8x10.5 roll ilm camera and the 9x12  plate camera as well as the Ensign V, but the finish on the base below the focus track etc is identical as well and that's another unique feature  Yes the same front standard does appear on a few Ica's but  we should expect some cameras would have been finished off after the merger, or machinery moved. The Krügener plant was closed down.

Ian


----------

