# Pricing?!??



## kelsakat (Aug 24, 2016)

So here's the deal: I just had my first "official" shoot - engagement photos for an old coworker - and now that I have some pictures to showcase, I'm going to make a post on a local buy/sell page on Facebook advertising heavily discounted sessions to build up my portfolio. I don't want to work for free, especially as I live in a place where every location must be driven to and gas ain't cheap, but I don't want to charge much at all bc I'm very much a newbie - I'm good, but still. I was thinking of $25 for a one hour session and that includes me editing up to 20 pictures. does that seem reasonable or would be I selling myself way too short? I was thinking maybe even $50 but would that be a stretch?

also before you suggest, I have made multiple posts for friends and family to take pictures for FREE but most of them fell thru and honestly I was so busy with work but now I'm unemployed with too much time and could honestly use some cash, ha.


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## snowbear (Aug 24, 2016)

How much is a shoot really costing you?  Include portions of depreciation, any business license fees, insurance, travel exenses, taxes, etc.


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## jeffW (Aug 24, 2016)

There are others here that are going to give you much better specific advice than I can, but I'm going to ask.  What in your area can $25 buy in terms of a service; bringing equipment onto location and doing a job?

While you might think to use the concept of an hourly rate and I'm sure that might relate with your clients you've already admitted it takes time in pre-production and post-production to do even an hour of shooting.

I think what's lost in  today's photo world is people putting down the camera and being an assistant or an apprentice for a while until they feel confident to only take on jobs that truly cover a business's CODB.  You will learn more, pick up less bad habits and won't have to move to a new region to bring your prices to a sustainable level


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## tirediron (Aug 24, 2016)

It's not worth getting out of bed for $25.  As mentioned, you need to KNOW how much it's actually costing you to do the shoot.  An hourly rate is a good way to go BUT... it needs to be the right hourly rate.  Based on experience, I know that my hourly rate needs to be $125.  Why?  Because a 1 hour shoot will take between two and three hours when you include travel, pre-shoot consults, post-processing, proofing, etc.  So the reality is, my $125 is more like $40-60/hr.


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## TamingRoman (Aug 24, 2016)

I just had a really depressing conversation with an amazing photog who mentored me.    Her photos have been the focus in Time Mag more times than I have fingers.  People are asking her to do weddings for $1,000 bucks.  I **** you not.  I used to charge $4500 for a wedding.  No albums, no other stuff, and I got it.  Then everyone was a wedding photographer.  And the prices dropped.    Even for my friend who is a MIND BLOWING photographer.  I got out before she did, and now she is thinking of getting out too.  Can't blame her.  It's a lot of work and dedication.


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## KmH (Aug 24, 2016)

Your profile has no location info.
Your location tells us about the market potential _where you are_.
Market potential varies quite a bit regionally and varies based on your target market.
Here in rural, central Iowa, a retail photographer cannot charge as much as a retail photographer in a major US City, regardless the target socio-economic level being marketed to.
By the same token, a retail photographer in a major Mexican city probably can't charge as much as a retail photographer in a major US City.

Having a discounted, promotional portfolio building price is a good market entry strategy - as long as you show those taking advantage of the promotional discount how much they will be paying once the promotional discount ends. A 25% discount would be about right. 
Using John's $125 per 1 hour session, your promotional portfolio building price would be about $95. 

However, *your* pricing has to be based on *your* cost of doing business (CODB) and cost of goods sold (COGS), not on John's.

You determine your CODB/COGS by putting together a well researched and written business/marketing plan.
I would bet you have done little, if any, research to determine if there is a market sufficient to make it worth starting a business.
When someone with little or no business starting/managing experience starts a business pricing way to low is a very common, and usually early business failure, business mistake.
You're also going to find out that it is virtually impossible to start a business if you don't have substantial savings you can live on and use to start and support the business for the first years. The less business acumen you have the more years the business will have to be supported with savings or other income.


One off the most expensive things a retail business can attempt is to raise prices.
Raising prices almost always entails a significant loss of current customers.
A retail business axiom is that it takes 10x more advertising to attract a new customers than it takes to get a previous customer to again use your service/product.

When I was still in business I knew I needed an average sale of at least $1000 per shooting session.
Your average sale is the target you need to shoot for, not your hourly rate.
To earn a take home income that would barely be enough to live on, IMO you would need an average sale of about $400 per 1 hour shooting session.


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## OGsPhotography (Aug 24, 2016)

You dont want to work for free but you dont have a job so defacto you are SoL.

There is some good advice here to learn from. IMO what you want/ need to do is called bootstrap.

 In my location I would need to make about 30k a year to really care about the tax implications, and then I would get pro help, lawyer, accountant, banker. 

You have a camera and presumably an eye a hand and a heartbeat, you do not have a business. 

Kelby has a good 1 hr long show on youtube about shooting for extra cash to bootstrap equipment. The Grid is the name of the show.


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## TamingRoman (Aug 24, 2016)

I think you shouldn't work for less than $150 per shooting hour.  It depends on your skill level, but I don't know what that is.


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## kelsakat (Aug 24, 2016)

wow didn't expect all the replies. before I read them all, just wanted to point out this will not be my prices when I finally start my actual business. this is just for while I'm practicing. and yes, I've reached out to many local photographers about being an assistant, even offered for no pay, and they either wouldn't respond or already had assistants.


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## tirediron (Aug 24, 2016)

Start as you mean to continue; if you establish your prices as bargain-basement, it will be very difficult to raise them later on without alienating potential customers.  As for "working" for someone else; good luck.  For every opportunity, there's a hundred people trying to land it.  Good luck.


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## kelsakat (Aug 24, 2016)

okay so! first off, thank you allor the replies! they were very helpful. I do want to emphasize however that this is purely for building up my portfolio and getting some shoots under my belt. practice, really. charging will be for travel expenses really. 

I realize I should have been more clear in my title but it was 3 AM and I was sleep deprived. 

also, I plan to have photography be in addition to other business ventures. it won't be my main source of income, as I do know how everyone with a DSLR thinks they are a photographer nowadays and people don't understand the true value of photography. 

as for my location, I live on the Gulf Coast of Florida. Pensacola to be exact. photography actually does quite well here as it offers many beautiful natural backdrops


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## kelsakat (Aug 24, 2016)

also I will make it VERY clear that the price is bc I'm practicing and to not expect such low prices after I deem myself experienced. I actually have to deal with aforementioned old coworker as I think she thinks I'm going to be working her wedding for free. Dream on.


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## TamingRoman (Aug 24, 2016)

Totally agree with Tirediron.  If you have a certain pricing, low pricing, customers don't think you are a bargain, they wonder what is wrong.  Charge more than YOU think you are worth.  If people pay it, raise the price until they stop.  If they don't, push it back a notch or two.  You will find your true pricing.  This stuff is hard, and you have a lot of money in equipment and programs.  Get what you are worth.  Good luck to you.  Florida is a goldmine.


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## KmH (Aug 25, 2016)

kelsakat said:


> I live on the Gulf Coast of Florida. Pensacola to be exact.


BEFORE you accept money to make photographs for anyone the State of Florida, and likely the city of Pensacola too, expect you to register your 'business' with them so they are sure to get whatever monies are due to them.
Governments tend to start levying fine and penalties on those that get caught ignoring their requirements. Business competitors have been known to 'drop a dime'. 


> If your business will have taxable transactions, you must register as a sales and use tax dealer before you begin conducting business in Florida. See “How to Register” for details. Most local governments also have registration or licensing requirements; contact them before starting business.


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