# age old battle...canon vs nikon



## Ridgeback Guy (Jun 6, 2009)

Hi all, I am new to photography and need help picking my first real camera. I think I have narrowed it down to the Nikon d5000, and the Canon EOS Rebel T1i. I still have many questions though. First off either of these will be a huge upgrade from what I currently have to work with, but I would like to know what you all think of these two cameras? Does either have any notable advantages or disadvantages over the other?  

Also I can get either one for just a bit over 500 with two kit lenses (18-55 & 55-200mm). Is this a good deal, or should I buy the body, and get a better piece of glass off ebay or the like? 

If I do buy just the body, does it come with warranty, user manual, cleaning kit and all that jass that the camera and lens comes with?

lastly, are there any other cameras that are in/around the same price range that you would recommend? 

Thanks in advance everyone!!!


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## KmH (Jun 6, 2009)

Ridgeback Guy said:


> Hi all, I am new to photography and need help picking my first real camera. I think I have narrowed it down to the Nikon d5000, and the Canon EOS Rebel T1i. I still have many questions though. First off either of these will be a huge upgrade from what I currently have to work with, but I would like to know what you all think of these two cameras? Does either have any notable advantages or disadvantages over the other?
> 
> Also I can get either one for just a bit over 500 with two kit lenses (18-55 & 55-200mm). Is this a good deal, or should I buy the body, and get a better piece of glass off ebay or the like?
> 
> ...


Actually, it's not a battle and in reality it's Canon *OR* Nikon.

A Nikon D500 with the 2 lens kit lens retails for almost $1000 and is a newly released camera. If you can get one for $500 with 2 kit lenses something is out of whack. You know the old sayoing, "If it sounds to good to be true...."

The T1i with just 1 kit lens is $900 and again is a recently released new camera.. So again it sounds to good to be true.

Both are nice entry level cameras though both are at the high end of entry level.

Unless you know specifically how you will be using a camera either will be more than able to keep you learning for many months to come.


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## musicaleCA (Jun 6, 2009)

No KmH. It's obviously a battle, and it's obvious who's better. Canon. Duh. :lmao:

*Ahem* Now that I've said that, KmH is right. It's Canon _or_ Nikon. Both are great manufacturers offering solid products, from the entry level cameras, to their P&S', to their high end DSLRs that are simply so fantastic they're drool worthy *eyes the Canon 1Ds Mark III*.


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## Ridgeback Guy (Jun 6, 2009)

Haha I know its really not a battle, but I figured I'd spice it up 

Here are the links to the cameras and prices...If they don't look real then please let me know, because I don't want to spend money and not receive the product!

Bingo Cameras
and Bingo Cameras

Again, thanks in advance!


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## Josh66 (Jun 6, 2009)

Ridgeback Guy said:


> ...If they don't look real then please let me know, because I don't want to spend money and not receive the product!



Go to B&H or Adorama.

Bingo Cameras (see also: Sonic Cameras) - bingocameras.com - Reviews, Ratings and Prices at ResellerRatings

Lifetime rating of 1.11/10.  All the reviews say scam.


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## Ridgeback Guy (Jun 6, 2009)

Ohh, well thanks, Josh! That could have been bad! That's why I came here to ask the experts


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## Josh66 (Jun 6, 2009)

No problem.

I just pulled these up on B&H to find out what they really cost.  When you see camera gear for half of what everyone else sells it for, that should send up a huge red flag.  


Canon | EOS Rebel T1i Digital SLR Camera Kit w/EF-S | 3818B002
nikon d5000 | B&H Photo Video

(There are a few different lens packages to choose from on the Nikon, so I just pasted the link to the search results)

If the price on any camera gear deviates from B&H or Adorama's prices by more than 10%, be suspicious.


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## musicaleCA (Jun 7, 2009)

I retract what I said about Nikon and Canon being on equal footing. I suggest you read one of Scott Bourne's latest blog entries on PhotoFocus about his experience with Nikon (note despite the problems he still says he's happy to have switched to Nikon).

Is Your Camera Reliable? « Photofocus


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## epp_b (Jun 7, 2009)

I move we start banning threads that contain both "canon" and "nikon" in the title ...


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## KmH (Jun 7, 2009)

musicaleCA said:


> I retract what I said about Nikon and Canon being on equal footing. I suggest you read one of Scott Bourne's latest blog entries on PhotoFocus about his experience with Nikon (note despite the problems he still says he's happy to have switched to Nikon).
> 
> Is Your Camera Reliable? « Photofocus


A friend of mine got a nice new 5d MKII 2 weeks ago. Yesterday, while shooting a wedding she tripped the shutter........and it's still open as of this morning as she prepares to package it up to go back to Canon. She had to quickly grab her backup 40D. She's smart too because she has a 30D to backup the 40D.

My point is that, regardless of brand, these are mass produced, fairly complex technological wonders and they will fail from time to time. It's inevitable.


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## Seefutlung (Jun 7, 2009)

Both cameras are very similar. Differences are slight and most differences seem insignificant. Canon 15MP to Nikon 12MP insignificant. Nikon 4FPS Canon 3.4FPS significant only if you're shooting action (even then the dif is questionable). Nikon has 11 autofocus points Canon has 9 (but Canon's are all cross type) ... no real difference. Canon and Nikon lenses are pretty much equal when compared apples to apples ... Canon lenses are a bit less expensive. Canon has much more available in wide angle primes than Nikon. Nikon's lack of lens availability is legendary.

If you plan on using the video, Canon's video is 1080p while Nikon is 720p .... I'm not into video but I think that may be significant.

Good Luck on finding a deal ... both these cameras, as mentioned above, are quite new.

Gary


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## Ridgeback Guy (Jun 7, 2009)

Thank you for the replies everyone. I didn't know Nikon had a lack of lenses available, that alone makes me want to get the canon. I'm not sure how many lenses I will be buying, but I would like them to be available should I ever get really serious! 

Has anybody ever heard of this place?
http://rogerscamera.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=684_729_1195
I called and actually spoke to a person there, but they didn't seem too knowledgeable, which leaves me skeptical once more. They dont have the new d5000, only the d80 and d90, but both around 600 with one lens. Do you think its another scam?  

This site is most helpful!


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## Josh66 (Jun 7, 2009)

Ridgeback Guy said:


> Has anybody ever heard of this place?
> http://rogerscamera.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=684_729_1195



Appears to be another bait & switch scam.  Their rating is even worse than the first place (0.31/10).  Check Reseller Ratings before making any purchases.

Or just go to B&H or Adorama - they are both well known and reputable.


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## Ridgeback Guy (Jun 7, 2009)

huh, Ill be darned. In all my internet buying days, never have I encountered so many of these scams as I am while looking for cameras. Thanks again, Josh, I think Ill just take your advice and buy from Adorama!

Also, does anybody think I should just buy a body, and get a lens other than the kit one? I know only what I have read, but I heard that many of the kit lenses aren't that great. Is this true? Plus, I would really like to be able to take close up pics of very small things like insects.


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## KmH (Jun 7, 2009)

Nikon's lack of lenses tends to be the high dollar ones, like $10,000, 600mm primes not the main stream ones.

They did recently release a new 35mm f/1.8G lens that is on back order a lot of places.


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## DScience (Jun 7, 2009)

KmH said:


> Nikon's lack of lenses tends to be the high dollar ones, like $10,000, 600mm primes not the main stream ones.
> 
> They did recently release a new 35mm f/1.8G lens that is on back order a lot of places.



It's on back order EVERYWHERE!


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## UUilliam (Jun 7, 2009)

im a canon man
but the lens' that nikon supply are sufficient for any photographer (although most sport toggers go with canon for their L series lenses as they are part of the most supperiour lenses available in todays market)

Stock lenses are good, i bought my canon 450D + 18-55mm kit for £30 more than the body alone and the lens is worth £130+ so i could resell my lens for about £100 giving me a body for £70 less than the sale price
but to be honest, i quite like the 18-55mm, it is fairlysharp and is a good all round lens

The problem you are encountering with the scam sites are because you are trying to get the camera as cheap as you can
in photography you pay for what you get, you will not find it for much less anywhere unless it is second hand, damaged etc.. so i recommend pay the full price or go to independant camera sellers and try haggling that is the only way to get the camera cheaper without risk of scam (assuming you get the camera when you pay the money)

Photography is a very expensive hobby with the cheapest lenses coming in at about £80 brand new and the most expensive up to around £10000 or more but you really do pay for quality the only lens you will buy cheap and get more out of it will probably be the 50mm f1.8 (both canon and nikon) which comes in at around £80-120

hope that is help to you but honestly i have the feeling your just trying to buy the best body you can just because you want the best
go with what you can use
there is no point going for the canon 500D or nikon D5000 if your not gunna do much videographing
your better getting a Canon 450D or 1000D or 40D or a Nikon D60 or D40 instead if you want only purely photography
they are allot cheaper and have simillar if not better qualities than the 500D and D5000
it is the lens that makes the picture not the body, yes the body has something to do with the image but the better your lens the clearer the image, buying the dearest body you can (for example lets use a canon 1Ds III) and sticking a rubbish lens on it, you will not get any decent images (quality wise) whereas if you buy a really good DO lens or L series lens your image will be much better (thats the big white lenses you see)

Dont buy "The dearest camera because its the best" buy what you can use and what fits your purose even if that means simply a Point and shoot camera, if it fits the bill then why spend more than you have to


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## clarinetJWD (Jun 7, 2009)

What O|||||||O said.  You'll pay a bit more going with B&H or Adorama, but you know you will have the backing of a couple of the best online/real stores.  Personally, I got my setup- from Cameta Camera, and they made me very happy as well, so that's another place to look.


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## itznfb (Jun 7, 2009)

the easiest way to avoid a scam is to know that camera equipment is generally never discounted unless it's refurb or used. so if you find something for cheaper than other places then it's generally a scam.

and nikon doesn't have an issue with availability any more than canon does. both companies suffer from lack of stock on new items like nikon's 35mm f/1.8 DX. they could put 5,000 copies to retail stores tomorrow and they'd be gone tuesday.


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## epp_b (Jun 7, 2009)

^ It's not surprise, it's a great lens.  I'm glad I got mine when I did


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## epp_b (Jun 7, 2009)

I have come to settle this once at for all 

Canon vs. Nikon: FIGHT!http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=Canon&word2=Nikon


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## Ridgeback Guy (Jun 7, 2009)

Hmm thanks all, much of that info was very helpful! I had no clue that the lenses were that important! So if I get the Nikon d60 body, what are some quality lenses that could go with it?

I want to take pictures of my family and my dog, the usual things like that. But what most interests me would be the smaller things like insects, small reptiles, water droplets, etc...Do I need a macro lense for those types of things?


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## Garbz (Jun 8, 2009)

musicaleCA said:


> I retract what I said about Nikon and Canon being on equal footing. I suggest you read one of Scott Bourne's latest blog entries on PhotoFocus about his experience with Nikon (note despite the problems he still says he's happy to have switched to Nikon).
> 
> Is Your Camera Reliable? « Photofocus



Taking one man's point of view and sticking it into a thread such as this is of no real help. On the other side of the fence I really mistreat my camera. It has been used in +60C to -60C. It has been knocked off tripods, beat against cliff faces, rained on, and covered in sand. Aside from a crack in the protection screen there's nothing wrong with it. Same goes for its lenses.

Taking the opposite view look at the problems Canon had rolling out the 1DsMkII which would have caused a few people to jump ship. Or just search this forum for lens backfocus issues and you'll see quite a lot of them are for specific Canon lenses too.

Both companies have excellent products, and great misshapes. And both companies have users who somehow end up a magnet for defective products. 



Ridgeback Guy said:


> Hmm thanks all, much of that info was very helpful! I had no clue that the lenses were that important! So if I get the Nikon d60 body, what are some quality lenses that could go with it?
> 
> I want to take pictures of my family and my dog, the usual things like that. But what most interests me would be the smaller things like insects, small reptiles, water droplets, etc...Do I need a macro lense for those types of things?



Depends on your definition of quality lenses. Surely the Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8 is one quality lens, but you could buy 3 D60s for the cost of one of these. Surprisingly enough there are a lot of kit lenses from Nikon which do exceptionally well, I'd say stock midrange kit lenses bundled with Nikon give them the quality edge, and give Canon the price point, but obviously this is something you can change quite easily at the time of sale.

I would recommend something along the lines of an Nikkor AF-S 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5, which was the standard kit lens for D80s and D200s a while ago. If you're budget stretches a bit they have a Nikkor 16-?75?mm with VR too. The other good one which is a bit less nice to use but still produces excellent results is the Nikkor AF-S 18-105mm.

For the Macro it depends on what kind of work you wish to do. By far the cheapest option would be to pick up an excellent standard lens like the Nikkor 50mm f/1.8 and put it on an extension ring, or mount it on your camera backwards. The poor mans macro produces some stunning results at the expense of a bit of usability. For a higher budget you would need a decent macro and from Nikkon the choices are between the 60mm and 105mm Micro-Nikkor f/2.8. But there is the cost +$1000 unless you're willing to go second hand.

* Big asterisks here: The second hand market for the Nikon D60 is somewhat limited if you wish to use Autofocus. The camera lacks an autofocus motor which means the only lenses what will autofocus with it are the AF-S variety. While there is plenty of these, and your choices of what you can shoot aren't limited, some older bargains will be missed like the MicroNikkor AF 105mm f/2.8 D (note the lack of AF-S) which can be had between $300-$500 depending on how much of a bargain you find. These lenses work fine but will not autofocus.


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## Ridgeback Guy (Jun 8, 2009)

Oh, I think AF is something I would rather have in the camera itself, thank you for pointing that out! If I decided on the d80 and got a starter kit like this one, would the wide angle lens in there accomplish some of my goals? Would these lenses keep me busy until I learned more about the hobby?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Nikon-D80-Digit...66:2|39:1|72:1234|240:1309|301:1|293:1|294:50


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## Garbz (Jun 8, 2009)

Oh god don't! The camera may be fine but the rest of that kit is crap! You'd be far happier with just a body and one lens for the same price rather than a camera body and bundled garbage which may break the first time you use it.

The 28-80mm lens is not only average, but 28mm on a APS-C sized DSLR (pretty much every DSLR under $3000) is not actually a wide angle. It approaches more the focal length of a standard lens such as the 50mm on older film cameras (50/1.3 = 33mm). Oh and reflex mirror lenses may be nice for looking at stars, but they make horrid photos.


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## Seefutlung (Jun 8, 2009)

One of the best ways to learn, appreciate and develop one's photograhic skills is to start simple (KISS), get a kit lens, use it until it falls apart.  By then you will know what your next lens will be and you've learned all that lens has to offer inside and out.  Getting a few lenses to start, just dilutes and confuses the situation.  Getting just one simple lens as a starter ... allows one to "focus" on photography and not just equipment.

Gary


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## itznfb (Jun 9, 2009)

i agree a kit is a good investment in learning photography. i used a 18-55mm / 55-200mm kit for 4 years before i even thought about buying another lens.

however i wouldn't get a kit like that one on ebay. the D80 body is fine but the rest of that kit is junk.

B&H has a D60 / 18-55mm VR / 55-200mm VR kit for $850


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## manaheim (Jun 9, 2009)

epp_b said:


> I move we start banning threads that contain both "canon" and "nikon" in the title ...


'

Seconded!

*AMIGA RULZ!*

Buy whatever line of camera you like better.  Both lines work very well.


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## Ridgeback Guy (Jun 9, 2009)

Thanks everyone, you all helped tremendously! I think Ive got a good idea on what will be best for me to start with now.


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