# Are these shots any good?



## Senor Hound (May 8, 2008)

I have been taking pictures now for about 6 months.  I have a point and shoot camera, but it has a 12x zoom on it (I like it).  I like black and white cause I think it really helps you look at things differently (colors can be distracting from what's really going on, if that makes any sense).  Anyway, I wanted to know if you people think these are any good...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sir_hound/2435929586/sizes/l/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sir_hound/2435916088/sizes/l/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sir_hound/2435914030/sizes/l/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sir_hound/2435105313/sizes/l/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sir_hound/2435433559/sizes/o/

I won't lie to you, I aspire to become a professional photographer someday (if I'm good enough).  People tell me I'm good, but they also aren't going to come out and say I suck either.  I'd really like to know if these photos are any good from people who are more... in tune to photography.

Please be nice, though :mrgreen:


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## celery (May 8, 2008)

Well, you're quite a way off from going pro at this point.  Shots two and five are the most "dynamic", but still show a lack of technical knowledge/artistic focus.

Also, it doesn't seem like these pictures when through any post processing.  Not that it's required, but it's part of learning how to become a photographer.  Once you know what types of results you will want in the end, you can adjust the way you take pictures in order to get closer to that result pre processing.

Have you taken any classes or had any type of formal training?  


I don't mean to discourage you, but if you're serious about becoming a photographer/artist, then you have a lot of work ahead of you.


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## Senor Hound (May 8, 2008)

celery said:


> Well, you're quite a way off from going pro at this point. Shots two and five are the most "dynamic", but still show a lack of technical knowledge/artistic focus.
> 
> Also, it doesn't seem like these pictures when through any post processing. Not that it's required, but it's part of learning how to become a photographer. Once you know what types of results you will want in the end, you can adjust the way you take pictures in order to get closer to that result pre processing.
> 
> ...


 
I know I have a lot of work ahead of me. But everyone has to start somewhere. And these photos are from my camera as-is. Why, what should I do to them to make them better?

And the only training I"ve had is reading a book I have by a guy named John Hedgecoe.


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## celery (May 8, 2008)

Sometimes you just have to scrap your photos and say, "Not up to par."
Set a level of quality/content that is equal to your best work.  Then, try to only choose pictures at or above that level.  Of course, constantly try to increase that level.

As far as what you have, this is of course, my personal opinion and should be taken as such.

1.  I have seen this picture a million times.  Maybe not this same car, but the same angle and such.  It's not particularly interesting as a whole, maybe closer to the ornament and with more concern for shadows in the face of it.  Overall, not really worth salvaging.

2.  Way too much black on bottom.  The ground has no definition and that's fine as you obviously wanted to silhouette the tree with the sun behind it.  But it's too much on the bottom.  Crop it significantly to make the tree the focal point.  The wire on the left is annoying to me, not sure what it is, but it does cut into the organic feel of the tree.  Crop and get that wire out of the way somehow and it's a pretty nice shot.

3.  My first thought is . . . "ok, so it's a bridge."  The best thing you could do is retake the shot.  As it is, there's no reason to keep it.  Next time, pay more attention to what makes the bridge interesting.  I'll give you a hint, it's the structural repetition.  The human eye loves repetition and if you can get a good angle on it, you could have a great shot.

4.  I know you were trying to say something with this shot, but whatever that message was, it's been lost in a sea of weeds and such.  It's far too busy to focus on the subject.  Also, the angle/composition is boring and definately doesn't help convey your thoughts while taking the shot.  Toss the photo and try again.

5.  Not a bad shot, it's just not a great shot.  The headlight is kind of ugly in and of itself, I'd love to see a crazy crop where you just keep the picture from the top of the headlight and up.  Probably would be pretty abstract, but it appeals to me.

Anyway, I hope I've helped and not upset you.  But taking some course would really help you out and would provide you with instant feedback from multiple sources (sometimes the forums don't garner enough responses for a real critique).

Good luck.


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## manaheim (May 8, 2008)

Jeez.  Maybe this should be a lesson in how to make your subject make people think your shots are good.

Either that or I'm worse at photography than I thought, because I didn't feel that these shots were bad at all.

Are they like super compelling in some way?  Well, perhaps not.  Could they be tuned up?  Sure.  The other guys had some comments that were definitely worth considering.

I don't think they're horrible, though.  I kind of enjoyed staring at the bridge pic a bit, myself.


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## Senor Hound (May 9, 2008)

celery said:


> Anyway, I hope I've helped and not upset you.  But taking some course would really help you out and would provide you with instant feedback from multiple sources (sometimes the forums don't garner enough responses for a real critique).
> 
> Good luck.



Its kinda upsetting, I don't take criticism well, but I guess that's my problem.  At least you aren't censoring how you feel, so that's very admirable.

These were my best photos...  I know some of the subjects have been done a lot of times before, but not by me.  I really was wanting to know if I'm any good considering (someone who's only been shooting on the weekends for about six months).  Maybe that's bs, though, cause real photographers are just naturally better than me.

Shouldn't someone who is learning take lots and lots of photos (of sometimes less than desirable subjects)?  I was of the mentality that I should just shoot first and ask questions later at this point, to get a feel for what makes things look good.  But I guess that's not a good idea.

And as far as cropping in on the subject, I don't know how or I would have.  I got Photoshop a couple of days ago, but I don't have a clue what I'm doing with it (I need a book...  )

I kind of felt like I had to defend myself after your post, but I HONESTLY thank you for your criticism.  Maybe I'd just be better off doing this as a hobby.  Its better to find out now than later, I guess.


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## flygning (May 9, 2008)

You're right-- part of learning photography is taking thousands and thousands of pictures and learning what works.  Your best photos now won't even compare to your best photos a year from now.

Celery's comments are very valuable, whether everyone agrees with them or not.  One of the best ways to improve is to look at each and every single one of your photographs as a way to learn something new, even if it is small.  Take, for instance, shot 5.  You don't know how to crop?  Okay, so you learn, you get a book or ask someone on here or whatever, and then you're that much better for it and can use that for a shot down the road.  

Don't get discouraged and feel like you have to defend yourself.  Instead of defense, just go out, retake the shot, and try to make it that much better.  Just realize that becoming a pro, or even just really good, takes a long long time and you have to learn from every source you can, including books and people on this forum and classes and self critique.  You'll learn what constitutes a good photograph versus just a casual snapshot, and you'll learn how to really set up a shot in your mind before you take it.


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## Senor Hound (May 9, 2008)

flygning said:


> You're right-- part of learning photography is taking thousands and thousands of pictures and learning what works.  Your best photos now won't even compare to your best photos a year from now.
> 
> Celery's comments are very valuable, whether everyone agrees with them or not.  One of the best ways to improve is to look at each and every single one of your photographs as a way to learn something new, even if it is small.  Take, for instance, shot 5.  You don't know how to crop?  Okay, so you learn, you get a book or ask someone on here or whatever, and then you're that much better for it and can use that for a shot down the road.
> 
> Don't get discouraged and feel like you have to defend yourself.  Instead of defense, just go out, retake the shot, and try to make it that much better.  Just realize that becoming a pro, or even just really good, takes a long long time and you have to learn from every source you can, including books and people on this forum and classes and self critique.  You'll learn what constitutes a good photograph versus just a casual snapshot, and you'll learn how to really set up a shot in your mind before you take it.




Thank you.  Photoshop scares me, though.  I'm afraid to change my picture and save it that way, cause I don't know if it will make it better, and if not, I don't know if it will be reversible.  The ideas he had were good, just kinda harsh (but I'm as soft as a wet paper bag).  

As a matter of fact I might go back and reshoot some of these more interesting subjects (the car is gone, but I'm thinking of taking a photo of the bridge while almost inside of it, so all you see is the support beams).  Anyway, you restored my faith that I can get better at this and HAVE FUN (the most important part) getting better.  Thank you!


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## flygning (May 9, 2008)

The greatest thing about digital photos is that you can save a copy (or a hundred copies!) of your picture to edit.  What I usually do is open a picture in photoshop and immediately save it as picturename *e1*.jpg (or psd, or whatever format).  That way I know that it is my first edit of this particular photo, and if I make serious mistakes I just go back to the original and start over.


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## Mohain (May 9, 2008)

^^ As Victoria said, you should always save your edit as a new version. Don't ever save over the original. If you're serious about being a pro photographer then you must get to grips with Photoshop. I'm afraid the two go hand in hand.

Don't be afraid of critisim, as Malcolm X said, "If you have no critics you'll likely have no success."  You obviously have an eye for a shot and a passion to take photography further which is a great start. I think you need to work a little on your composition (and your photoshop skills ) Celery has given you a good breakdown on the photos, picture by picture. They do seem to be a ramdon selection of images with little cohesion though. What are you trying to get across here? Is there supposed to be a theme or just a randon collection cool things? I think in order to progress you should set yourself some projects or targets. e.g. a Day in the life of your home town. Shoot 12 different self portraits. Shoot a local sporting event. See if you can contact a local wedding photographer and offer to help him out at his next local wedding for free. Try and get a day at your nearest studio. Take photos of the same thing as different times of the day ans see how the light effects your subject. Read up as much as you can. This is a great free oline resource http://www.morguefile.com/archive/classroom.php especially the chapters on composition. 

Don't be dicouraged, be positive and keep pushing yourself. Keep snapping and most of all have fun doing it


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## JamesD (May 9, 2008)

One thing I've found particularly helpful in developing the proverbial photographic eye is looking at other peoples' photos, particularly ones I like a lot and ones I don't like at all, and trying to figure out why.  Studying lighting, composition, color, and so forth, then using what I've studied in the process of studying photos helps me understand why I'm reacting to what I see.

Then, I apply this same critical eye toward my own photographs, but even more harshly.  I've found I wind up passing up more photographic opportunities, but I also wind up with a higher percentage of photographs I'm happy with.

In the end, it takes time, study, and experience... but to be a pro, work is what it's ultimately about, isn't it? ;-)

Keep at it!


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## Rachelsne (May 9, 2008)

I started with a point and shoot, I have only just upgraded to a dslr after owning my point and shoot for 2 years.

Even though you want to be unprofessional (i do to one day) make sure you enjoy your pictures, take critisism with a pinch of salt and remember everyones tastes are different but alot of the people on here are extremely knowledgeable.

Does your point and shoot have creative zones such as manual? if it does do you use them?


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## Judge Sharpe (May 9, 2008)

Look- the important thing is what do you think of the pictures? Only you know for sure why you took the picture that way. Context. 
I know that digital makes it easy to snap lots of pictures, and that is something you should do. BUT as a exercise pretend that you only have a limited number of exposures once in a while. force yourself to think- how do I take the best pictures with what I have left? 
If I got one or two "keepers" from a roll of film, I was happy. 
If you hang yourself out in public, you are going to get some harsh C and C. So either don't ask for it, develop a tough skin, or take it under advisement and try to apply whats said to the next shoot. 
Good luck and good shooting 
Judge Sharpe


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## Wyjid (May 9, 2008)

what kind of car is that? it's a cool ornament. i love all the lines in number five. it remindes me of a photo my dad bought years ago. but the background... i don't know. i think it would be really cool if you cropped out the right side and just kept the car.


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## manaheim (May 9, 2008)

Senor, one thing to consider is you learn WAY more from failure than from success.

As some other folks said, and you suggested... yeah, go out and take tons of pics.  Post 'em, get the commentary, and soak it all in... even if you don't agree, give every comment due consideration.  Think about how your pictures impact each person and why.

Then go out and do some more.

I actually have a couple pics that I intend to post later that I think came out nowhere near where I liked.  They suck.  But I'm not sure why.  I know the people here will have some insight.  The only way to grow is to be open to taking a beating on your crappiest work. 

Then a year from now (as someone else said) you'll look back and go "Oh GOD what was I thinking..."

and then a year after that, you'll look back to when you first said "Oh GOD..." and say the same thing...

and then a year after that...

and then a year after that...


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## kundalini (May 9, 2008)

Senor Hound said:


> I was of the mentality that I should just shoot first and ask questions later at this point, to get a feel for what makes things look good. But I guess that's not a good idea.


You were correct with the last sentence.  The forethought of taking an outstanding photo should be while looking throught the viewfinder and before you press the shutter.

Take the critique that celery gave as a free learning session.  He's not far off.  I think you have potential talent, but you have to develop that raw and turn it into your style.  Remember the saying/song that you have to be cruel to be kind.

Keep shooting, keep posting and keep learning.  Pick up a copy of *Understanding Exposure*.


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## Senor Hound (May 10, 2008)

kundalini said:


> You were correct with the last sentence.  The forethought of taking an outstanding photo should be while looking throught the viewfinder and before you press the shutter.
> 
> Take the critique that celery gave as a free learning session.  He's not far off.  I think you have potential talent, but you have to develop that raw and turn it into your style.  Remember the saying/song that you have to be cruel to be kind.
> 
> Keep shooting, keep posting and keep learning.  Pick up a copy of *Understanding Exposure*.



This is strange, cause I just picked up that book tonight, at the same EXACT time you posted this.

Thanks to everyone for helping me out.  I think the part that hurt my feelings is when he told me that some of the photos weren't worth keeping.  I was thinking to myself that if these aren't good then I don't have any photos that are worth keeping.  But I think I get what he means...


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## theadamsociety (May 10, 2008)

K I don't have time to read all the comments but that first person who responded should have just kept their comment to themselves. Of course work comes with trying to be a professional photographer, work comes with everything, the guys not looking for a life lesson. Dude, Photo 1, 3, and 5 really do it for me considering you took them with a point and shot. The composition is good and thats what every photographer needs. You have the right ideas, all the next steps come with upgrading. Don't listen to someone who says "Oh, It's hard work, good luck with that". You'll get better with every picture you take. 

Jeez, some people need to stop posting comments.


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## LaFoto (May 10, 2008)

I'm afraid I need to disagree with what you are saying about the first comment given to these photos: that very first comment was quite important to having been given, since that was the only really critical critique given, and the one that speaks the truth. What are we here for if all we are supposed to ever say about photos is "Hey, good! Keep shooting!".

While the latter part of my example reply surely applies to each and everybody who is "into photography" and is wishing to learn and develop, the first rarely helps in cases where the photos are NOT so good. Why not point out when and where they are not so good? 

And I cannot see where "celery" in his first post was rude or said something that shouldn't have been said. 

The photos were posted in connection with the OP stating he was thinking of _going pro_. This gives an entirely different context to the range of replies that have to be expected than if he had said "These are the first photos taken with my new camera that I personally like, what do YOU think?" If "I want to go pro" is added to posting beginner's photos, said beginner needs to be prepared for some more serious critiquing! 

And the kind of camera that was used to take the photos is absolutely minor and I thoroughly disagree with thinking that the "next step comes with updating". 

If Photos 1, 3 and 5 do it for YOU, it still doesn't say that they are coming close to possible professional photography. And always keep in mind that these photos were posted with the addition that the poster means to become a professional. 

So no: critical comments should NOT be kept to the member's mind who takes out the time to type up his critical thoughts (in the right words).


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## Senor Hound (May 10, 2008)

LaFoto said:


> I'm afraid I need to disagree with what you are saying about the first comment given to these photos: that very first comment was quite important to having been given, since that was the only really critical critique given, and the one that speaks the truth. What are we here for if all we are supposed to ever say about photos is "Hey, good! Keep shooting!".
> 
> While the latter part of my example reply surely applies to each and everybody who is "into photography" and is wishing to learn and develop, the first rarely helps in cases where the photos are NOT so good. Why not point out when and where they are not so good?
> 
> ...



I'M SORRY PEOPLE!!! I feel like such a fool after reading this...  I was TOTALLY not implying I'm good enough to be professional...  I threw that in there just as a statement.  It will probably be (I'm guessing) ten or twenty years before I'll know enough about this stuff professionally (it took Tiger woods 20 years of playing golf before he was a professional...lol!)

I created a monster.  This was all about getting good criticism, and I turned into my little version of a soap-opera.  I feel so dumb.  And anyone who read this, please don't think I'm some sort of drama queen (king) or worse yet, someone who doesn't understand or appreciate how much thought, knowledge, and passion goes into a good photo.  I wasn't asking for professional critique, I was just stating that the sky is the limit, and I don't plan on becoming complacent with my ability (or lack thereof) anytime soon.

I'm really sorry, once again.  If all of this needs to be deleted (this is a photography forum, not a "make Senor feel better" forum), I totally understand.:meh:


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## theadamsociety (May 10, 2008)

I agree I just think that he could have been a bit more straight-forward and not beat around the bush as if this guy is oblivious.


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## abraxas (May 10, 2008)

Senor Hound said:


> ...
> 
> ...  Maybe I'd just be better off doing this as a hobby.  Its better to find out now than later, I guess.



If it is what you want then pursue it and don't let anyone convince you otherwise.  Don't take criticism too seriously or too much.  Follow who you are and how you feel. Develop your judgement. I hope that's the last time you ever think like that.

Two things.

1) Composition.  It is everything.  With interestingly composed photos  the next item doesn't matter so much and will work itself out.

2) Exposure.  Not too light and not too dark- retention of details.

My opinion.


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## manaheim (May 10, 2008)

Senor Hound said:


> I'M SORRY PEOPLE!!! I feel like such a fool after reading this... I was TOTALLY not implying I'm good enough to be professional... I threw that in there just as a statement. It will probably be (I'm guessing) ten or twenty years before I'll know enough about this stuff professionally (it took Tiger woods 20 years of playing golf before he was a professional...lol!)
> 
> I created a monster. This was all about getting good criticism, and I turned into my little version of a soap-opera. I feel so dumb. And anyone who read this, please don't think I'm some sort of drama queen (king) or worse yet, someone who doesn't understand or appreciate how much thought, knowledge, and passion goes into a good photo. I wasn't asking for professional critique, I was just stating that the sky is the limit, and I don't plan on becoming complacent with my ability (or lack thereof) anytime soon.
> 
> I'm really sorry, once again. If all of this needs to be deleted (this is a photography forum, not a "make Senor feel better" forum), I totally understand.:meh:


 
no no no no no no no...

Don't do that.
Don't change your life based upon some comments.  That's crazy.  You want to be a pro photographer?  Then go for it.

Not that you did, but you can't expect your first shots to be pro level.  That's totally ok.  If you just pickup a gun and shoot, are you gonna hit a bullseye on the first try?  Can you pickup a trumpet for the first time and just start playing Tumpeter's Holiday?  Can you just hop into a stock car and win the Indy 500 on the first try?  No, no no no no no no...  It takes practice and experience.

Even if you WERE a pro, not every shot is great, and not every shot comes out quite the way you expected.  When I started doing this about 7 years ago, most of my shots were exposed horribly and the compositions were awful.  I would throw away whole rolls of film on a regular basis.  They all sucked.  Now... I'm at a point in my career/hobby where about 90% of my shots are exposed properly... but only 75% of them are composed well and maybe 25% of them are like "Oh yeah, that's really cool! I like that!"  I'm not certain, but I bet you a lot of pros would tell you something similar.

Are there people who may be better than you on day 1?  Maybe.  My buddy is a graphic artist trying to learn photography, and right out of the gate he has a better eye for composition than I do.  Drives me wild. :mrgreen:  Doesn't matter.  If you keep at it, you will get better.  Getting better at photography, like most things, is all about practice. 

The biggest thing you need to get a handle on beyond that is to accept criticism, no matter how harsh.  You will learn the most from people who will be honest with you.  1000 comments on "great shots!!!" won't do you crap, but one guy tearing your exposure apart like a wildman is worth a million bucks.

Keep at it.


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## kellylindseyphotography (May 10, 2008)

I haven't read all the replies so forgive me if I repeat myself.

I actually don't think you should just trash them or that they've all been done before.  Every photo, every piece of art, has been done before.

I think #3 is your best of the series, with 4 being the "worst" (the wheelbarrel one).  I think once you know WHY that is so, you can improve.

3 would REALLY pop with post processing work.  You woulud see an amzing picture emergy.  Open up your levels and right away you will see a difference.  Good luck.


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## That One Guy (May 10, 2008)

Senor Hound said:


> Its kinda upsetting, I don't take criticism well, but I guess that's my problem.  At least you aren't censoring how you feel, so that's very admirable.
> 
> These were my best photos...  I know some of the subjects have been done a lot of times before, but not by me.  I really was wanting to know if I'm any good considering (someone who's only been shooting on the weekends for about six months).  Maybe that's bs, though, cause real photographers are just naturally better than me.
> 
> ...




No photographer takes 100 shots and has 100 keepers. It just doesn't happen. 

Me for example:
during a normal portrait shoot i may take 50 photos. out of those 50 i may keep 5-10. some days I do really well and other days I just suck at it.

when you ask for critiques or comments you will get responses from all sorts of ppl. some *know* what they are talking about and *others don't have the first CLUE!!!* some will critique your work and have never posted any of their own......sorta like an armchair quarterback.

*YOU MUST KEEP SHOOTING NO MATTER WHAT!!! Everything gets better with practice and experience.

*Your photos are not that bad. Better than I did when I first started out and now I do it for $$$$$  so you can too. Prolly just some fine tuning in post work would help them "pop". google "free photoshop tutorials" and you will see lots of them.....that's what i do 

Get the book Understanding Exposure by Bryan Peterson. this book helps everyone.....even pros.
read everything you can about photography, study the masters, but most important........shoot LOTS of photos. learn from your photos. learn from other's photos. learn the rules of photography and then BREAK THOSE RULES!!
 Remember this......photography is an individual's artistic interpretation of a particular subject. 


Keep shooting. Good luck. Post your work.


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## Wyjid (May 10, 2008)

That One Guy said:


> Remember this......photography is an individual's artistic interpretation of a particular subject.


 
being a pro photographer just means someone bought one of your photos. use the advice that you get, but who cares what everyone thinks if you sell a picture.


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## Senor Hound (May 11, 2008)

Thanks, everyone.  And THANK YOU, CELERY!!!  I was obviously not ready for what you told me, but now it all makes sense.


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