# NEX 7 at 3200iso



## cosmonaut

No noise reduction. I don't think its that bad. Considering I come from Olympus where 3200 was unusable in most cases. I thought it cool AT&T put a huge billboard over the Verizon store.LOL


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## KmH

The photo you have posted is only 800 x 533 pixels and the image noise in the sky is visible at 100% scale. One can image how bad it looks like full size at 6000 x 4000 pixels.                       

But that's to be expected when 24 MP are crammed onto a small APS-C size image sensor. Canon discovered 18 MP crammed onto an APS-C size sensor didn't work out to well.


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## Nikon_Josh

I hate to say it, but the noise performance there is pretty gruesome to my eyes! How does it clean up after noise reduction? I would be intrigued to see a sample if you could post it? Would be great to see if it retains any sharpness after noise reduction is applied.


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## gsgary

Rough by probably better than A77


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## argieramos

gsgary said:
			
		

> Rough by probably better than A77



That made your 1D MkII shot at that ISO looks like was taken by a point and shoot camera lol.


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## o hey tyler

argieramos said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> 
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> Rough by probably better than A77
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol.
Click to expand...


You must be referring to the photos in the concert venue? The ones with no visible noise, right? 

I'm sure if Cosmonaut ran this photo through noise reduction, it would actually look pretty crisp. :thumbup:


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## gsgary

o hey tyler said:


> argieramos said:
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rough by probably better than A77
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You must be referring to the photos in the concert venue? The ones with no visible noise, right?
> 
> I'm sure if Cosmonaut ran this photo through noise reduction, it would actually look pretty crisp. :thumbup:
Click to expand...



I knew it would get him fired up  it makes my day winding him up


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## argieramos

o hey tyler said:
			
		

> You must be referring to the photos in the concert venue? The ones with no visible noise, right?
> 
> I'm sure if Cosmonaut ran this photo through noise reduction, it would actually look pretty crisp. :thumbup:



How you wish Canon camera could take photo as good as that.
Even the NEX takes better pictures than the Canon best APS-C camera, the 7D
http://snapsort.com/compare/Canon_EOS_7D-vs-Sony_Alpha_NEX-3

Come back here when Canon start making good camera lol


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## argieramos

gsgary said:
			
		

> I knew it would get him fired up  it makes my day winding him up



I am ready to kick your ass again in this thread lol


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## cosmonaut

I really wish you would quit comparing the NEX7 and a77 to full frame cameras, I am soon to be getting an a850, then we'll talk. I think the a77 and NEX 7 stands up well to cameras priced in the same range. If you like lugging a five pound camera around all the time then so be it. Compare the NEX 7 to anything else in it's class. The Nikon J1 sux. The NEX 7 wasn't a camera designed to cover the super bowl. 



Competing Forces by Cosmonaut's, on Flickr


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## gsgary

It does not beat the Panasonic GX1, don't try and compare the A850 with the 5d for noise because you will be in for a hiding, but the A850 is a great studio/ landscape camera, stick an 85F1.4 and you have a fantastic studio camera


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## o hey tyler

cosmonaut said:


> I really wish you would quit comparing the NEX7 and a77 to full frame cameras, I am soon to be getting an a850, then we'll talk. I think the a77 and NEX 7 stands up well to cameras priced in the same range. If you like lugging a five pound camera around all the time then so be it. Compare the NEX 7 to anything else in it's class. The Nikon J1 sux. The NEX 7 wasn't a camera designed to cover the super bowl.
> 
> 
> 
> Competing Forces by Cosmonaut's, on Flickr



The alleged "full frame" camera that Argue Ramos mentioned is not a full frame camera. It's an APS-H body. 1.3x Crop Factor. I enjoy lugging around a 5lb camera/lens. It gives me good results. If we were talking about the 5D Mark II or D700, that would be a bit different. 

Like  I said, with a good hand at noise removal, the photo should shine. I'm not dissing or putting down your camera. Almost any camera at ISO 3200 can benefit from NR.


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## cosmonaut

Well coming from Olympus, I guess you know about their high ISO, I am thrilled. Hopefully I can complete my system soon with a A850. DXO marks puts that one pretty high. Not as much as the king Nikon full frame. But Nikon glass is just to costly.


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## argieramos

o hey tyler said:
			
		

> The alleged "full frame" camera that Argue Ramos mentioned is not a full frame camera. It's an APS-H body. 1.3x Crop Factor. I enjoy lugging around a 5lb camera/lens. It gives me good results. If we were talking about the 5D Mark II or D700, that would be a bit different.
> 
> Like  I said, with a good hand at noise removal, the photo should shine. I'm not dissing or putting down your camera. Almost any camera at ISO 3200 can benefit from NR.



Fool, That was on the first a77 thread. I've been referring the 1D as APS-H which is also bigger than the APS-C. Nice try. But with that bigger sensor, it's a shame to see it beaten by smaller sensors found in a580,Nex 5n, Nex-7, a77.
Call Canon and tell them to make sensors that can compete with the 16mp and 24mp of Sony. lol


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## o hey tyler

Cosmonaut, Expect the A850 with a lens to be about 4 or 5lbs. You previously mentioned that you didn't want to carry around a camera of that weight, so I'm just giving you a heads up.

I carry around a 5D or 5DMK2 with an 85mm f/1.4 and I've found a black rapid strap to be indispensable. I strongly suggest you pick one up with the A-850.


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## o hey tyler

argieramos said:


> o hey tyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The alleged "full frame" camera that Argue Ramos mentioned is not a full frame camera. It's an APS-H body. 1.3x Crop Factor. I enjoy lugging around a 5lb camera/lens. It gives me good results. If we were talking about the 5D Mark II or D700, that would be a bit different.
> 
> Like  I said, with a good hand at noise removal, the photo should shine. I'm not dissing or putting down your camera. Almost any camera at ISO 3200 can benefit from NR.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fool, That was on the first a77 thread. I've been referring the 1D as APS-H which is also bigger sensor than the APS-C. Nice try. But with that bigger sensor, it's a shame to see it beaten by smaller sensors found in a580,Nex 5n, Nex-7, a77.
Click to expand...


You mean the 6 year old sensor from 2006? 

Yeah, good win dude. You're as thick as a concrete sidewalk. 

You should experiment with long exposures of yourself playing in traffic. 

At least Cosmonaut has a good head on his shoulders.


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## argieramos

o hey tyler said:
			
		

> You mean the 6 year old sensor from 2006?
> 
> Yeah, good win dude. You're as thick as a concrete sidewalk.
> 
> You should experiment with long exposures of yourself playing in traffic.
> 
> At least Cosmonaut has a good head on his shoulders.



Wow you didn't actually ignore me. I'm flattered.
how about the old Nex-3 still beating the newer T3i? Canon sensor is really left behind. lol


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## o hey tyler

argieramos said:


> o hey tyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean the 6 year old sensor from 2006?
> 
> Yeah, good win dude. You're as thick as a concrete sidewalk.
> 
> You should experiment with long exposures of yourself playing in traffic.
> 
> At least Cosmonaut has a good head on his shoulders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol
Click to expand...


What was that?


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## cosmonaut

I don't mind a heavy camera for shooting my landscapes. I don't shoot but a couple of hours when I go out and then the camera is on a tripod. But I wouldn't want to carry a heavy gear around all day at a place like Disney World. I have kids and when I chase them around the NEX does a great job. I rarely shot over 800 ISO anyway. The last concert I went to I took my M6 and push processed some 400 TriX.


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## o hey tyler

Yeah, I suppose if you're a hobbyist the NEX will be fine for your needs. Personally, whether they're family snapshots or full on client work, I thrive on delivering the best image possible. I guess I'm kind of a perfectionist in that way... So I don't mind carrying a heavy camera with me. 

In the end, it's all personal preference. You'll still probably want a Black Rapid though, they really are nice.


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## argieramos

o hey tyler said:
			
		

> What was that?



lol


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## argieramos

o hey tyler said:
			
		

> Yeah, I suppose if you're a hobbyist the NEX will be fine for your needs. Personally, whether they're family snapshots or full on client work, I thrive on delivering the best image possible. I guess I'm kind of a perfectionist in that way... So I don't mind carrying a heavy camera with me.
> 
> In the end, it's all personal preference. You'll still probably want a Black Rapid though, they really are nice.



If you are striving to deliver the best image possible, you wouldn't a camera with a sensor that is left behind. You will do better using Nikon


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## o hey tyler

argieramos said:


> o hey tyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I suppose if you're a hobbyist the NEX will be fine for your needs. Personally, whether they're family snapshots or full on client work, I thrive on delivering the best image possible. I guess I'm kind of a perfectionist in that way... So I don't mind carrying a heavy camera with me.
> 
> In the end, it's all personal preference. You'll still probably want a Black Rapid though, they really are nice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol
Click to expand...


Sorry Argue Ramos, there must be something wrong with the forums. All your posts are appearing as a lot of 'lols'.


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## argieramos

o hey tyler said:
			
		

> Sorry Argue Ramos, there must be something wrong with the forums. All your posts are appearing as a lot of 'lols'.



Its ok. Its not the forum that has something wrong. Its your brain that is not functioning properly. lol.
I like the argueramos name BTW


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## mjhoward

cosmonaut said:


> Compare the NEX 7 to anything else in it's class. The Nikon J1 sux. The NEX 7 wasn't a camera designed to cover the super bowl.



The Comparison of an NEX 7 to a FF camera is closer than the comparison of the NEX 7 to the Nikon J1.  The NEX 7 has ~3.2 times the area of a J1 CX format sensor.  Meawhile, a FF sensor only has 2.3 times the area of the NEX 7 sensor, and the APS-H that has been mentioned only has 1.6 times the area of the NEX 7 sensor. Just sayin'.


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## o hey tyler

argieramos said:


> o hey tyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Argue Ramos, there must be something wrong with the forums. All your posts are appearing as a lot of 'lols'.
> 
> 
> 
> lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol
Click to expand...


Huh? Sorry dude. Maybe you should stop posting. There seems to be some error in translation.


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## argieramos

o hey tyler said:
			
		

> Huh? Sorry dude. Maybe you should stop posting. There seems to be some error in translation.



It's ok. I'm going to keep posting anyway.
Deny it all you want, I know that you are getting hurt in every post that I make. lol


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## o hey tyler

argieramos said:


> lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol  lol


.


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## argieramos

o hey tyler said:
			
		

> .



Bwuahahaha!
I guess you need a doctor now .


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## o hey tyler

argieramos said:


> o hey tyler said:
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> .
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> lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol
Click to expand...


.


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## cosmonaut

mjhoward said:


> cosmonaut said:
> 
> 
> 
> Compare the NEX 7 to anything else in it's class. The Nikon J1 sux. The NEX 7 wasn't a camera designed to cover the super bowl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Comparison of an NEX 7 to a FF camera is closer than the comparison of the NEX 7 to the Nikon J1.  The NEX 7 has ~3.2 times the area of a J1 CX format sensor.  Meawhile, a FF sensor only has 2.3 times the area of the NEX 7 sensor, and the APS-H that has been mentioned only has 1.6 times the area of the NEX 7 sensor. Just sayin'.
Click to expand...


  Well there you go. If it wasn't for Ashton Kutcher Nikon probably couldn't give them away. But I still feel they are in the same class, all EVIL compacts.


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## argieramos

o hey tyler said:
			
		

> .



Speechless? I guess this troll has given up. I am way too smart for him. nyehehe


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## mjhoward

cosmonaut said:


> mjhoward said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cosmonaut said:
> 
> 
> 
> Compare the NEX 7 to anything else in it's class. The Nikon J1 sux. The NEX 7 wasn't a camera designed to cover the super bowl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Comparison of an NEX 7 to a FF camera is closer than the comparison of the NEX 7 to the Nikon J1.  The NEX 7 has ~3.2 times the area of a J1 CX format sensor.  Meawhile, a FF sensor only has 2.3 times the area of the NEX 7 sensor, and the APS-H that has been mentioned only has 1.6 times the area of the NEX 7 sensor. Just sayin'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well there you go. If it wasn't for Ashton Kutcher Nikon probably couldn't give them away. But I still feel they are in the same class, all EVIL compacts.
Click to expand...


Well there are a couple of benefits to them that _some_ people might find appealing.  For the wild life shooter, the 2.7x crop factor can be nice and for video shooters and 'pray and spray' shooters will like the 60fps at FULL resolution (skieur eat your heart out) as well as full time phase detect AF.


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## cosmonaut

Probably for bikers ect as well. Most I know aren't really conserned with super IQ, just speed and size. I read the AF is blinding fast and can nail a moving target. I saw one at Wolf camera today. I wish now I had tried it. I was like 80 miles from home and it's the closest camera store to me. They had no a77s or NEX 7s and no idea when they would be getting any.



mjhoward said:


> cosmonaut said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mjhoward said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Comparison of an NEX 7 to a FF camera is closer than the comparison of the NEX 7 to the Nikon J1.  The NEX 7 has ~3.2 times the area of a J1 CX format sensor.  Meawhile, a FF sensor only has 2.3 times the area of the NEX 7 sensor, and the APS-H that has been mentioned only has 1.6 times the area of the NEX 7 sensor. Just sayin'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well there you go. If it wasn't for Ashton Kutcher Nikon probably couldn't give them away. But I still feel they are in the same class, all EVIL compacts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well there are a couple of benefits to them that _some_ people might find appealing.  For the wild life shooter, the 2.7x crop factor can be nice and for video shooters and 'pray and spray' shooters will like the 60fps at FULL resolution (skieur eat your heart out) as well as full time phase detect AF.
Click to expand...


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## belial

argieramos said:
			
		

> Speechless? I guess this troll has given up. I am way too smart for him. nyehehe



Don't talk to others about being trolls when all you've done is trash any brand but your precious Sony.


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## argieramos

belial said:
			
		

> Don't talk to others about being trolls when all you've done is trash any brand but your precious Sony.



You guys are just tasting your own medicines. I don't trash other brand, I am just merely stating the fact. Canon trolls started bashing here first and I am just telling them that before bashing Sony, they have to make sure that their favorite brand (Canon) have something good. Canon sensors is already behind Sony. Thats all bro


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## o hey tyler

Back when I played Halo 2 competatively, our team got a lot of other players mad because of how well we played and the results that we produced. They would be shouting over their mic's all sorts of obscentites. All we'd say back is... 

Check the scoreboard, noobs:


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## gsgary

belial said:


> argieramos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speechless? I guess this troll has given up. I am way too smart for him. nyehehe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't talk to others about being trolls when all you've done is trash any brand but your precious Sony.
Click to expand...


He does not even have a bloody Sony


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## argieramos

o hey tyler said:
			
		

> Back when I played Halo 2 competatively, our team got a lot of other players mad because of how well we played and the results that we produced. They would be shouting over their mic's all sorts of obscentites. All we'd say back is...
> 
> Check the scoreboard, noobs:



Oh cool, DSLR chart. How about the global camera market? With mirrorless market getting bigger, Canon is gonna get killed! Nyehehehe..
Still doesn't change the fact that Canon sensors are outdated piece of c**p.


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## argieramos

gsgary said:
			
		

> He does not even have a bloody Sony



Oh yea? who told you that? lol
You might wanna throw your obsolete FF 5D. Even Nex 5n takes better pictures than that lol.
http://snapsort.com/compare/Canon_EOS_5D-vs-Sony-NEX-5N
Nex 5n: Better image quality 77.0 vs 71.0	"Around 10% better image quality"
Ouch! lol


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## o hey tyler

argieramos said:


> o hey tyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Back when I played Halo 2 competatively, our team got a lot of other players mad because of how well we played and the results that we produced. They would be shouting over their mic's all sorts of obscentites. All we'd say back is...
> 
> Check the scoreboard, noobs:
> 
> 
> 
> lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol
Click to expand...


Scoreboard.


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## o hey tyler

argieramos said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He does not even have a bloody Sony
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yea? who told you that? lol
> You might wanna throw your obsolete FF 5D. Even Nex 5n takes better pictures than that lol.
> Canon 5D vs Sony NEX-5N
> Nex 5n: Better image quality 77.0 vs 71.0    "Around 10% better image quality"
> Ouch! lol
Click to expand...


Yeah dude. Compare a camera from 2006, to a camera manufactured in 2011. 

Let me say again... Scoreboard.


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## argieramos

o hey tyler said:
			
		

> Yeah dude. Compare a camera from 2006, to a camera manufactured in 2011.
> 
> Let me say again... Scoreboard.



You can see my post now.  That's good.
That camera from 2006 is using a Full-Frame sensor, but got beaten by an APS-C camera.

Lets compare the old NEX-3 to the newer T3i
http://snapsort.com/compare/Canon-T3i-vs-Sony_Alpha_NEX-3
NEX-3:
-Better Image quality
-More dynamic range
-Lower noise at high ISO.

lol


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## EchoingWhisper

I think that both argieramos and o hey tyler is wrong. For market shares, Nikon is ahead - in Japan. Why do Canon wins in global share? Canon market a lot, even if their products is inferior. I agree with argieramos that the sensors in Canon DSLRs are much worse compared to Sony, Nikon and Pentax's, but that's because even their cameras are new, their sensor the old ones. Canon have not seemed to have a new sensor even till now, cause' the G1X's sensor is basically almost the same as the APS-C sensors in their DSLRs.


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## EchoingWhisper

argieramos said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He does not even have a bloody Sony
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yea? who told you that? lol
> You might wanna throw your obsolete FF 5D. Even Nex 5n takes better pictures than that lol.
> Canon 5D vs Sony NEX-5N
> Nex 5n: Better image quality 77.0 vs 71.0    "Around 10% better image quality"
> Ouch! lol
Click to expand...


Snapsort is wrong, 6 points = more than 1/3 of a stop increment in performance which equals to more than 33% improvement in overall image quality. One big reason Sony sensors is better is their dynamic range, which is more than 2 stops better than Sony. Noise performance is also slightly behind Sony because of Canon's high read noise. Without that high read noise, Canon's noise performance might even be better than Sony.


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## argieramos

EchoingWhisper said:
			
		

> Snapsort is wrong, 6 points = more than 1/3 of a stop increment in performance which equals to more than 33% improvement in overall image quality. One big reason Sony sensors is better is their dynamic range, which is more than 2 stops better than Sony. Noise performance is also slightly behind Sony because of Canon's high read noise. Without that high read noise, Canon's noise performance might even be better than Sony.



Uhmm, 33% of 71 is around 23 and with that increase, the IQ will be 94.  77 is 9% increase from 71. Snapsort round off the percentage and say "around 10%". 

I'm confuse with your post. You said Sony DR is better and it's 2 stop better than Sony? My comparison shows DR of NEX 5n is 1.6 f-stop than the Canon 5D.


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## argieramos

EchoingWhisper said:
			
		

> I think that both argieramos and o hey tyler is wrong. For market shares, Nikon is ahead - in Japan. Why do Canon wins in global share? Canon market a lot, even if their products is inferior. I agree with argieramos that the sensors in Canon DSLRs are much worse compared to Sony, Nikon and Pentax's, but that's because even their cameras are new, their sensor the old ones. Canon have not seemed to have a new sensor even till now, cause' the G1X's sensor is basically almost the same as the APS-C sensors in their DSLRs.



In DSLR market, Canon is on top, Nikon is 2nd, Sony is in the third place.
In overall camera marketshare, Canon is on top, Sony is 2nd, Nikon takes the third place.
Mirrorless market is getting bigger and popular. Nikon and Sony have a very strong share in that category and Canon is left behind.


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## argieramos

EchoingWhisper said:
			
		

> Snapsort is wrong, 6 points = more than 1/3 of a stop increment in performance which equals to more than 33% improvement in overall image quality. One big reason Sony sensors is better is their dynamic range, which is more than 2 stops better than Sony. Noise performance is also slightly behind Sony because of Canon's high read noise. Without that high read noise, Canon's noise performance might even be better than Sony.



Uhmm, 33% of 71 is around 23 and with that increase, the IQ will be 94.  77 is 9% increase from 71. Snapsort round off the percentage and say "around 10%". 

I'm confuse with your post. You said Sony DR is better and it's 2 stop better than Sony? My comparison shows DR of NEX 5n is 1.6 f-stop than the Canon 5D.


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## mjhoward

argieramos said:


> In overall camera marketshare, Canon is on top, Sony is 2nd, Nikon takes the third place.
> Mirrorless market is getting bigger and popular. Nikon and Sony have a very strong share in that category and Canon is left behind.



Since point and shoots are mirrorless, I agree.  Sony make a ton of point and shoots, which explains why they have such large overall digital camera marketshare.


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## argieramos

mjhoward said:
			
		

> Since point and shoots are mirrorless, I agree.  Sony make a ton of point and shoots, which explains why they have such large overall digital camera marketshare.



I'm not talking about P/S. You want me to spell that out for you? To be specific, let's call it EVIL cameras.


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## bhop

Since we're all arguing and comparing cameras..

x100 at iso 6400



Hungry Boy by bhop, on Flickr


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## Nikon_Josh

Crazy, this is the fourth thread now about the same thing!!

To add fuel to the fire... I keep hearing about how dreadful the Canon sensor is...

http://www.popsci.com/files/IMG_9976.JPG 

That is ISO 12,800 in dreadful light on the Canon 7D. Supposedly this camera is terrible in low light, but that dosen't look terrible to me. It is 12,800 afterall. 

Looking forward now to getting flamed for this.. 

I'm not a huge Canon fan, but this idea that the 7D or 60D are useless at high ISO is complete and utter BS!


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## Nikon_Josh

Quit looking at your flipping nerdy boy charts and look at real life results!!! Look at the A77 compared to the D7000 and 7D. Use your eyes! 

Sony SLT-A77 studio comparison samples: Digital Photography Review

The Nikon d7000 And Canon 7D are similar at high ISO's, the Sony A77 Is completely and utterly S*** at high ISO's. If you can't see that you are clearly blind! It lags FAR behind both the Canon and Nikon results... quit trying to compete by using test charts as evidence, look at real life results! So I reiterate this complete BS about Canon lagging behind in sensor technology is complete rubbish, they may be slightly behind Nikon but not as far behind as you are making out. The only thing that can make this thread more boring and trashy than it is, is if the downhill 'Skieur' returned.

That felt good!


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## belial

Nikon_Josh said:
			
		

> Quit looking at your flipping nerdy boy charts and look at real life results!!! Look at the A77 compared to the D7000 and 7D. Use your eyes!
> 
> Sony SLT-A77 studio comparison samples: Digital Photography Review
> 
> The Nikon d7000 And Canon 7D are similar at high ISO's, the Sony A77 Is completely and utterly S*** at high ISO's. If you can't see that you are clearly blind! It lags FAR behind both the Canon and Nikon results... quit trying to compete by using test charts as evidence, look at real life results! So I reiterate this complete BS about Canon lagging behind in sensor technology is complete rubbish, they may be slightly behind Nikon but not as far behind as you are making out. The only thing that can make this thread more boring and trashy than it is, is if the downhill 'Skieur' returned.
> 
> That felt good!



What we all have to realize also is canon hasn't released a new prosumer model on a while. I believe it was 2009 for the 7d and wasn't the 5d2 just a few months before that.  Of course those cameras are behind in sensors that came out this year. But the cameras still perform well and are great sellers


----------



## belial

And before infer called a fan boy. Yeah I shoot canon. But im also looking into both minor Nikon and even a Sony system soon. With Sony I like some of the old Minolta lenses and they're cheap. Though most have CA issues but those don't bug me much. I figure I'll get an older Sony body and a beer can lens and a few other minoltas. Not interested in the mirror-less craze or slt. Just not my style. So there argie


----------



## gsgary

argieramos said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He does not even have a bloody Sony
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yea? who told you that? lol
> You might wanna throw your obsolete FF 5D. Even Nex 5n takes better pictures than that lol.
> Canon 5D vs Sony NEX-5N
> Nex 5n: Better image quality 77.0 vs 71.0    "Around 10% better image quality"
> Ouch! lol
Click to expand...


You post one from a nex5 and ill post one of mine and we will put it to the vote, i know who will win


----------



## cosmonaut

Nikon_Josh said:


> Crazy, this is the fourth thread now about the same thing!!To add fuel to the fire... I keep hearing about how dreadful the Canon sensor is...http://www.popsci.com/files/IMG_9976.JPG .That is ISO 12,800 in dreadful light on the Canon 7D. Supposedly this camera is terrible in low light, but that dosen't look terrible to me. It is 12,800 afterall. Looking forward now to getting flamed for this.. I'm not a huge Canon fan, but this idea that the 7D or 60D are useless at high ISO is complete and utter BS!


 I think the problem is the 7D just is kind of a plain Jane when it comes to features. Most purest probably prefer the 7D when most people want a camera that is loaded with things. No one has even mentioned the built in GPS on the Sony a77. Me there are a few things i just want to have if I am buying a camera of this caliber. Swivel screen, in body IS to name the biggies. I would easier give up a stop or two of noise levels. If I can shoot three stops slower because I have IS. Its a trade off.


----------



## Nikon_Josh

cosmonaut said:


> Nikon_Josh said:
> 
> 
> 
> Crazy, this is the fourth thread now about the same thing!!To add fuel to the fire... I keep hearing about how dreadful the Canon sensor is...http://www.popsci.com/files/IMG_9976.JPG .That is ISO 12,800 in dreadful light on the Canon 7D. Supposedly this camera is terrible in low light, but that dosen't look terrible to me. It is 12,800 afterall. Looking forward now to getting flamed for this.. I'm not a huge Canon fan, but this idea that the 7D or 60D are useless at high ISO is complete and utter BS!
> 
> 
> 
> I think the problem is the 7D just is kind of a plain Jane when it comes to features. Most purest probably prefer the 7D when most people want a camera that is loaded with things. No one has even mentioned the built in GPS on the Sony a77. Me there are a few things i just want to have if I am buying a camera of this caliber. Swivel screen, in body IS to name the biggies. I would easier give up a stop or two of noise levels. If I can shoot three stops slower because I have IS. Its a trade off.
Click to expand...


It wasn't an attack aimed at you Cosmonaut, you are not one of the 'certain' people here who sits referencing charts as a sign of your camera being better. I don't deny the A77 has good aspects and I don't deny that the A77 has some innovative features, the improvements in EVF are clearly being made. This thing about the A77 having a superior sensor though is just not cutting it with me though, Sony were overambitious with the MP count me thinks.


----------



## belial

cosmonaut said:
			
		

> I think the problem is the 7D just is kind of a plain Jane when it comes to features. Most purest probably prefer the 7D when most people want a camera that is loaded with things. No one has even mentioned the built in GPS on the Sony a77. Me there are a few things i just want to have if I am buying a camera of this caliber. Swivel screen, in body IS to name the biggies. I would easier give up a stop or two of noise levels. If I can shoot three stops slower because I have IS. Its a trade off.



In lens is tends to be more efficient. Gps IMO is just a battery waster. Course that's only my opinion


----------



## belial

Though I admit having stabilization on a prime lens must be awesome.


----------



## mjhoward

cosmonaut said:


> I would easier give up a stop or two of noise levels. If I can shoot three stops slower because I have IS. Its a trade off.



Eh, thats not quite the same thing.  For instance, if I've got my camera mounted on a tripod or have relatively little camera shake, IS won't do anything to stop motion on a moving subject.  Having the stop or two faster shutter speed very well could though.  Though I admit, in body IS is a nice feature.


----------



## argieramos

Nikon_Josh said:


> Quit looking at your flipping nerdy boy charts and look at real life results!!! Look at the A77 compared to the D7000 and 7D. Use your eyes!
> 
> Sony SLT-A77 studio comparison samples: Digital Photography Review
> 
> *The Nikon d7000 And Canon 7D are similar at high ISO's*, the Sony A77 Is completely and utterly S*** at high ISO's. If you can't see that you are clearly blind! It lags FAR behind both the Canon and Nikon results... quit trying to compete by using test charts as evidence, look at real life results! So I reiterate this complete BS about Canon lagging behind in sensor technology is complete rubbish, they may be slightly behind Nikon but not as far behind as you are making out. The only thing that can make this thread more boring and trashy than it is, is if the downhill 'Skieur' returned.
> 
> That felt good!



{Facepalm} You are giving the D7000 a bad image by saying it is similar to the Canon 7D. You wanted me to use my eyes, but it seems you are not using yours. Seriously dude. Are you smoking crack or something? lol.
By the looks of the date that images was posted, it seems that DPreview's a77 was running on a pre-matured FW (1.02 ). You are also comparing those images in a tiny little boxes. Even an iPhone4 shot is going to be almost as good in comparison. Let me give you a better site to compare images: Imaging Resource "Comparometer" &#8482; Digital Camera Image Comparison Page 
a77 vs 7D from *ISO100* to *ISO1600: *a77 destroyed the 7D in every category. 
*ISO3200: *Noise seems pretty even, but a77 looks better and sharper
*ISO6400 and above*. a77 Noise performance starts falling behind the 7D from the the ISO6400, but the difference is hardly visible. For some reason, a77 images still looking better if you don't zoom in. 
How much better the 7D in high ISO? Do the math. *Canon 7D vs Sony SLT A77*

-Slightly lower Noise at high ISO - 854 vs 801 - "The 7D has a slight edge (0.1 f-stops) in low noise, high ISO performance. 0.1 f-stop difference? lol
Now the a77 advantage:
-Significantly better image quality - 78.0 vs 66.0    
"Around 20% better image qualit
-More dynamic range - 13.2 EV vs 11.7 EV
"1.5 f-stops more dynamic range"
-Better color depth - 24 bits vs 22 bits    
"Distinguishes 2 more bits of color"

Real life results and Lab test prove the superiority of the a77. Now lets  go back to the "sensor talk". You wanted to talk about sensors but you used the a77 to compare ignoring the fact that it is loosing light because of the Pellicle Mirror. Why not use the NEX-7 instead? Are you really that dumb? Nyehehehe!



Question for you, Nikon_Josh. D300s was released the same year as the 7D?  And why are you keep calling out Skieur? Do you like him? hehe


----------



## argieramos

gsgary said:


> argieramos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He does not even have a bloody Sony
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yea? who told you that? lol
> You might wanna throw your obsolete FF 5D. Even Nex 5n takes better pictures than that lol.
> Canon 5D vs Sony NEX-5N
> Nex 5n: Better image quality 77.0 vs 71.0    "Around 10% better image quality"
> Ouch! lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You post one from a nex5 and ill post one of mine and we will put it to the vote, i know who will win
Click to expand...


Yea, consider the popularity of trolls in here who loves shooting an outdated Canon sensors. lol But I might do it. Buy me a NEX 5n first


----------



## argieramos

Nikon_Josh said:


> cosmonaut said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nikon_Josh said:
> 
> 
> 
> Crazy, this is the fourth thread now about the same thing!!To add fuel to the fire... I keep hearing about how dreadful the Canon sensor is...http://www.popsci.com/files/IMG_9976.JPG .That is ISO 12,800 in dreadful light on the Canon 7D. Supposedly this camera is terrible in low light, but that dosen't look terrible to me. It is 12,800 afterall. Looking forward now to getting flamed for this.. I'm not a huge Canon fan, but this idea that the 7D or 60D are useless at high ISO is complete and utter BS!
> 
> 
> 
> I think the problem is the 7D just is kind of a plain Jane when it comes to features. Most purest probably prefer the 7D when most people want a camera that is loaded with things. No one has even mentioned the built in GPS on the Sony a77. Me there are a few things i just want to have if I am buying a camera of this caliber. Swivel screen, in body IS to name the biggies. I would easier give up a stop or two of noise levels. If I can shoot three stops slower because I have IS. Its a trade off.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It wasn't an attack aimed at you Cosmonaut, you are not one of the 'certain' people here who sits referencing charts as a sign of your camera being better. I don't deny the A77 has good aspects and I don't deny that the A77 has some innovative features, the improvements in EVF are clearly being made. This thing about the A77 having a superior sensor though is just not cutting it with me though, Sony were overambitious with the MP count me thinks.
Click to expand...


Did anyone even say that the a77 sensor is superior? The discussion was not even specific to the 24mp sensor made by Sony.You fail so hard, as always. lol 
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Ca...rand2)/Nikon/(appareil3)/619|0/(brand3)/Canon


----------



## EchoingWhisper

Nikon_Josh said:


> cosmonaut said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nikon_Josh said:
> 
> 
> 
> Crazy, this is the fourth thread now about the same thing!!To add fuel to the fire... I keep hearing about how dreadful the Canon sensor is...http://www.popsci.com/files/IMG_9976.JPG .That is ISO 12,800 in dreadful light on the Canon 7D. Supposedly this camera is terrible in low light, but that dosen't look terrible to me. It is 12,800 afterall. Looking forward now to getting flamed for this.. I'm not a huge Canon fan, but this idea that the 7D or 60D are useless at high ISO is complete and utter BS!
> 
> 
> 
> I think the problem is the 7D just is kind of a plain Jane when it comes to features. Most purest probably prefer the 7D when most people want a camera that is loaded with things. No one has even mentioned the built in GPS on the Sony a77. Me there are a few things i just want to have if I am buying a camera of this caliber. Swivel screen, in body IS to name the biggies. I would easier give up a stop or two of noise levels. If I can shoot three stops slower because I have IS. Its a trade off.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It wasn't an attack aimed at you Cosmonaut, you are not one of the 'certain' people here who sits referencing charts as a sign of your camera being better. I don't deny the A77 has good aspects and I don't deny that the A77 has some innovative features, the improvements in EVF are clearly being made. This thing about the A77 having a superior sensor though is just not cutting it with me though, Sony were overambitious with the MP count me thinks.
Click to expand...


High megapixel counts doesn't really degrade image quality much. If you resized a 24MP picture from NEX7 to 16MP (same as NEX 5N), you'd find that the sensor with higher pixel count is actually better, because it's newer, and high megapixel doesn't necessarily degrade image quality - it does degrade image quality at 100% but if both are printed at the same size, the newer sensor is likely to be better with the benefit of more resolution.


----------



## EchoingWhisper

argieramos said:


> EchoingWhisper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Snapsort is wrong, 6 points = more than 1/3 of a stop increment in performance which equals to more than 33% improvement in overall image quality. One big reason Sony sensors is better is their dynamic range, which is more than 2 stops better than Sony. Noise performance is also slightly behind Sony because of Canon's high read noise. Without that high read noise, Canon's noise performance might even be better than Sony.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uhmm, 33% of 71 is around 23 and with that increase, the IQ will be 94.  77 is 9% increase from 71. Snapsort round off the percentage and say "around 10%".
> 
> I'm confuse with your post. You said Sony DR is better and it's 2 stop better than Sony? My comparison shows DR of NEX 5n is 1.6 f-stop than the Canon 5D.
Click to expand...


According to DxOMark, every 15 points equals to one stop. One stop means one time better. 6 points better = 40% better = 2/5 stops better.


----------



## EchoingWhisper

Nikon_Josh said:


> Quit looking at your flipping nerdy boy charts and look at real life results!!! Look at the A77 compared to the D7000 and 7D. Use your eyes!
> 
> Sony SLT-A77 studio comparison samples: Digital Photography Review
> 
> The Nikon d7000 And Canon 7D are similar at high ISO's, the Sony A77 Is completely and utterly S*** at high ISO's. If you can't see that you are clearly blind! It lags FAR behind both the Canon and Nikon results... quit trying to compete by using test charts as evidence, look at real life results! So I reiterate this complete BS about Canon lagging behind in sensor technology is complete rubbish, they may be slightly behind Nikon but not as far behind as you are making out. The only thing that can make this thread more boring and trashy than it is, is if the downhill 'Skieur' returned.
> 
> That felt good!



You need to know that studio results are often much more accurate than real life results because most factors are controlled to allow fair comparison.


----------



## EchoingWhisper

Nikon_Josh said:


> Crazy, this is the fourth thread now about the same thing!!
> 
> To add fuel to the fire... I keep hearing about how dreadful the Canon sensor is...
> 
> http://www.popsci.com/files/IMG_9976.JPG
> 
> That is ISO 12,800 in dreadful light on the Canon 7D. Supposedly this camera is terrible in low light, but that dosen't look terrible to me. It is 12,800 afterall.
> 
> Looking forward now to getting flamed for this..
> 
> I'm not a huge Canon fan, but this idea that the 7D or 60D are useless at high ISO is complete and utter BS!



Having an inferior sensor using a high ISO doesn't always produce an ugly picture - it depends on the shooter, but having a better sensor means you are more likely to get better results with it.


----------



## belial

Argie is the only troll here as he's the only one directly trashing other brands


----------



## Nikon_Josh

argieramos said:


> Nikon_Josh said:
> 
> 
> 
> Quit looking at your flipping nerdy boy charts and look at real life results!!! Look at the A77 compared to the D7000 and 7D. Use your eyes!
> 
> Sony SLT-A77 studio comparison samples: Digital Photography Review
> 
> *The Nikon d7000 And Canon 7D are similar at high ISO's*, the Sony A77 Is completely and utterly S*** at high ISO's. If you can't see that you are clearly blind! It lags FAR behind both the Canon and Nikon results... quit trying to compete by using test charts as evidence, look at real life results! So I reiterate this complete BS about Canon lagging behind in sensor technology is complete rubbish, they may be slightly behind Nikon but not as far behind as you are making out. The only thing that can make this thread more boring and trashy than it is, is if the downhill 'Skieur' returned.
> 
> That felt good!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> {Facepalm} You are giving the D7000 a bad image by saying it is similar to the Canon 7D. You wanted me to use my eyes, but it seems you are not using yours. Seriously dude. Are you smoking crack or something? lol.
> By the looks of the date that images was posted, it seems that DPreview's a77 was running on a pre-matured FW (1.02 ). You are also comparing those images in a tiny little boxes. Even an iPhone4 shot is going to be almost as good in comparison. Let me give you a better site to compare images: Imaging Resource "Comparometer" &#8482; Digital Camera Image Comparison Page
> a77 vs 7D from *ISO100* to *ISO1600: *a77 destroyed the 7D in every category.
> *ISO3200: *Noise seems pretty even, but a77 looks better and sharper
> *ISO6400 and above*. a77 Noise performance starts falling behind the 7D from the the ISO6400, but the difference is hardly visible. For some reason, a77 images still looking better if you don't zoom in.
> How much better the 7D in high ISO? Do the math. *Canon 7D vs Sony SLT A77*
> 
> -Slightly lower Noise at high ISO - 854 vs 801 - "The 7D has a slight edge (0.1 f-stops) in low noise, high ISO performance. 0.1 f-stop difference? lol
> Now the a77 advantage:
> -Significantly better image quality - 78.0 vs 66.0
> "Around 20% better image qualit
> -More dynamic range - 13.2 EV vs 11.7 EV
> "1.5 f-stops more dynamic range"
> -Better color depth - 24 bits vs 22 bits
> "Distinguishes 2 more bits of color"
> 
> Real life results and Lab test prove the superiority of the a77. Now lets  go back to the "sensor talk". You wanted to talk about sensors but you used the a77 to compare ignoring the fact that it is loosing light because of the Pellicle Mirror. Why not use the NEX-7 instead? Are you really that dumb? Nyehehehe!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Question for you, Nikon_Josh. D300s was released the same year as the 7D?  And why are you keep calling out Skieur? Do you like him? hehe
Click to expand...


OK I give in Argie, your right and I'm wrong pal... Now, seeing as you have helped me see the light... please can you post some images you have made with your Sony recently?

And yes I do miss the 'Downhill Skieur', I miss his 'imaginary' stories about how he went to the tropics and took photos on the back of jet ski's and how he took photos while jumping off the back of trains! :lmao: Damn that guy is funny! I feel I'm getting less laughs since he's gone, the only person talking BS on this thread now is you Argie, my old mate.  :thumbup:

Those images from that site you sent me... I looked! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE tell me they are RAW images?? And not JPEG images! If they are JPEG's (as they appear to flipping be) the test is completely invalid and that site is a piece of complete S*** aswell if they conduct tests using Jpeg images. :mrgreen:

You can also see the 7D is sharper at comparitive ISO's, supposedly the colour is superior on the A77 when you can see the colour depth on the Canon is equal?? If anything the A77 looks to be placing a yellow cast over everything, clearly poor AWB control.


----------



## argieramos

Nikon_Josh said:
			
		

> OK I give in Argie, your right and I'm wrong pal... Now, seeing as you have helped me see the light... please can you post some images you have made with your Sony recently?
> 
> And yes I do miss the 'Downhill Skieur', I miss his 'imaginary' stories about how he went to the tropics and took photos on the back of jet ski's and how he took photos while jumping off the back of trains! :lmao: Damn that guy is funny! I feel I'm getting less laughs since he's gone, the only person talking BS on this thread now is you Argie, my old mate.  :thumbup:
> 
> Those images from that site you sent me... I looked! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE tell me they are RAW images?? And not JPEG images! If they are JPEG's (as they appear to flipping be) the test is completely invalid and that site is a piece of complete S*** aswell if they conduct tests using Jpeg images. :mrgreen:
> 
> You can also see the 7D is sharper at comparitive ISO's, supposedly the colour is superior on the A77 when you can see the colour depth on the Canon is equal?? If anything the A77 looks to be placing a yellow cast over everything, clearly poor AWB control.



If you think the 7D is sharper, then I suggest have your eyes checked by specialist. 
You are asking me if those are raw or jpegs.  Let me ask you, if you are doing a comparison like that, would you even use jpegs? You really are good making stupid questions.
If you want to see which one is sharper, look at the fr*****g face you fool. When taking a picture like that, where do you place your focus? At the background? lol

Oh you miss skieur. So you have a special feelings for him? How cute


----------



## argieramos

EchoingWhisper said:
			
		

> You need to know that studio results are often much more accurate than real life results because most factors are controlled to allow fair comparison.



He doesn't know that. Hes dumb.


----------



## Nikon_Josh

argieramos said:


> Nikon_Josh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK I give in Argie, your right and I'm wrong pal... Now, seeing as you have helped me see the light... please can you post some images you have made with your Sony recently?
> 
> And yes I do miss the 'Downhill Skieur', I miss his 'imaginary' stories about how he went to the tropics and took photos on the back of jet ski's and how he took photos while jumping off the back of trains! :lmao: Damn that guy is funny! I feel I'm getting less laughs since he's gone, the only person talking BS on this thread now is you Argie, my old mate.  :thumbup:
> 
> Those images from that site you sent me... I looked! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE tell me they are RAW images?? And not JPEG images! If they are JPEG's (as they appear to flipping be) the test is completely invalid and that site is a piece of complete S*** aswell if they conduct tests using Jpeg images. :mrgreen:
> 
> You can also see the 7D is sharper at comparitive ISO's, supposedly the colour is superior on the A77 when you can see the colour depth on the Canon is equal?? If anything the A77 looks to be placing a yellow cast over everything, clearly poor AWB control.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you think the 7D is sharper, then I suggest have your eyes checked by specialist.
> You are asking me if those are raw or jpegs.  Let me ask you, if you are doing a comparison like that, would you even use jpegs? You really are good making stupid questions.
> If you want to see which one is sharper, look at the fr*****g face you fool. When taking a picture like that, where do you place your focus? At the background? lol
> 
> Oh you miss skieur. So you have a special feelings for him? How cute
Click to expand...


I DIDNT KNOW YOU WERE ON YOUTUBE! WHAT??


----------



## Nikon_Josh

gsgary said:


> o hey tyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> argieramos said:
> 
> 
> 
> lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You must be referring to the photos in the concert venue? The ones with no visible noise, right?
> 
> I'm sure if Cosmonaut ran this photo through noise reduction, it would actually look pretty crisp. :thumbup:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I knew it would get him fired up  it makes my day winding him up
Click to expand...


I just had to come on to do it again, he is the easiest person on the planet to wind up and it worked again with ease! I could care less which camera is better, he even fell for me being defensive of Canon... :lmao:


----------



## argieramos

Nikon_Josh said:
			
		

> I DIDNT KNOW YOU WERE ON YOUTUBE! WHAT??
> 
> YouTube Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Oh2mYKFZ1A



Your attacks are getting more lame. lol

First you sent me a private message.
Now you miss Skieur. 
You are more likely to be that feminine man on that video based on that.


----------



## Nikon_Josh

argieramos said:


> Nikon_Josh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I DIDNT KNOW YOU WERE ON YOUTUBE! WHAT??
> 
> YouTube Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Oh2mYKFZ1A
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your attacks are getting more lame. lol
> 
> First you sent me a private message.
> Now you miss Skieur.
> You are more likely to be that feminine man on that video based on that.
Click to expand...


The Canon S90 is better than the A77 at HIGH ISOS's. check out the site...


----------



## Nikon_Josh

Oh yeah I forgot to say!

Pentax, Canon and Nikon are better than Sony!


----------



## o hey tyler

Nikon_Josh said:


> argieramos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nikon_Josh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I DIDNT KNOW YOU WERE ON YOUTUBE! WHAT??
> 
> YouTube Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Oh2mYKFZ1A
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your attacks are getting more lame. lol
> 
> First you sent me a private message.
> Now you miss Skieur.
> You are more likely to be that feminine man on that video based on that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Canon S90 is better than the A77 at HIGH ISOS's. check out the site...
Click to expand...


Linq plocks?


----------



## Nikon_Josh

I spoke to a PRO the other day and he said the 'A77' was rubbish and he chucked his in the bin, he is now going back to using his compact camera!


----------



## argieramos

Nikon_Josh said:
			
		

> I just had to come on to do it again, he is the easiest person on the planet to wind up and it worked again with ease! I could care less which camera is better, he even fell for me being defensive of Canon... :lmao:



Thats what you think. None of your style would work on me. 

Now you are saying you don't care which camera is better.  If you really don't care you wouldn't bother yourself posting and thinking about this matter.


----------



## argieramos

Nikon_Josh said:
			
		

> I spoke to a PRO the other day and he said the 'A77' was rubbish and he chucked his in the bin, he is now going back to using his compact camera!



I spoke to a Psychiatrist and he said Nikon_Josh needs to go to rehab lol.


----------



## argieramos

Nikon_Josh said:
			
		

> Oh yeah I forgot to say!
> 
> Pentax, Canon and Nikon are better than Sony!



You wish. lol
Good you changed your tactics. The youtube video attack was lame


----------



## argieramos

These Nikon and Canon trolls joined forces and they still can't bring me down lol.


----------



## o hey tyler

argieramos said:


> Nikon_Josh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I spoke to a PRO the other day and he said the 'A77' was rubbish and he chucked his in the bin, he is now going back to using his compact camera!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I spoke to a Psychiatrist an he said Nikon Josh needs to go to rehab lol.
Click to expand...


I'm not even going to begin to act like this makes sense.


----------



## argieramos

o hey tyler said:
			
		

> I'm not even going to begin to act like this makes sense.



That's because you are not smart enough. lol


----------



## SJGordon

Nikon_Josh said:


> I spoke to a PRO the other day and he said the 'A77' was rubbish and he chucked his in the bin, he is now going back to using his compact camera!



I also know a couple "PROS" that are brand snobs and might as well use a compact camera because they can't get a quality shot with anything...might as well save a few dollars.  

Hope you enjoy shooting your Nikon with a Sony sensor... for 3 times the price.


----------



## EchoingWhisper

SJGordon said:


> Nikon_Josh said:
> 
> 
> 
> I spoke to a PRO the other day and he said the 'A77' was rubbish and he chucked his in the bin, he is now going back to using his compact camera!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also know a couple "PROS" that are brand snobs and might as well use a compact camera because they can't get a quality shot with anything...might as well save a few dollars.
> 
> Hope you enjoy shooting your Nikon with a Sony sensor... for 3 times the price.
Click to expand...


Sony manufactured*


----------



## mjhoward

SJGordon said:


> Hope you enjoy shooting your Nikon with a Sony sensor... for 3 times the price.



This is about as sensible as saying 'Hope you enjoy shooting your A77 with the same sensor as the A65... for twice the price'.


----------



## SJGordon

mjhoward said:


> SJGordon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hope you enjoy shooting your Nikon with a Sony sensor... for 3 times the price.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is about as sensible as saying 'Hope you enjoy shooting your A77 with the same sensor as the A65... for twice the price'.
Click to expand...


And the difference between the two in real image quality?  None.  The a77 you are paying for weather sealing, and more features like faster FPS rate, etc... *not* better image quality, and not worth 2X the price.  Which is the same as the Nikon using Sony sensors and Sony.  Yes some Nikons have a better feature set, and weather sealing... but frankly not worth 3-4X the price.


----------



## jamesbjenkins

cosmonaut said:


> ...But Nikon glass is just to costly.



The best products usually are.


----------



## cosmonaut

Nikon_Josh said:


> argieramos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nikon_Josh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I DIDNT KNOW YOU WERE ON YOUTUBE! WHAT??
> 
> YouTube Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Oh2mYKFZ1A
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your attacks are getting more lame. lol
> 
> First you sent me a private message.
> Now you miss Skieur.
> You are more likely to be that feminine man on that video based on that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Canon S90 is better than the A77 at HIGH ISOS's. check out the site...
Click to expand...


 You shouldn't mislead people. The s90 is a P&S. The Sony spanks the s90's a$$.
DxOMark - Compare cameras side by side


----------



## cosmonaut

You all should really do some studying and get out of the denial. 
DxOMark - Compare cameras side by side


----------



## argieramos

cosmonaut said:
			
		

> You shouldn't mislead people. The s90 is a P&S. The Sony spanks the s90's a$$.
> DxOMark - Compare cameras side by side



You shouldn't expect a decent statement from someone who is mentally challenged.


----------



## bentcountershaft

Do you lose sarcasm metering after buying a Sony?


----------



## argieramos

bentcountershaft said:
			
		

> Do you lose sarcasm metering after buying a Sony?



Look who's talking.. lol


----------



## kojack

bentcountershaft said:
			
		

> Do you lose sarcasm metering after buying a Sony?



Nope but you loose the pretentious a$$ persona that you automatically gain from buying a canon or Nikon.


----------



## bentcountershaft

You two must have me confused with someone else as I'm reasonably certain I've never posted in any of these Sony threads (before last night) nor have I purported the supremacy of Canon or Nikon cameras in a very long time if at all. I'll be the first to admit I'm an asshole but it has nothing to do with the gear I choose to shoot with.  Lighten up.


----------



## kojack

bentcountershaft said:
			
		

> You two must have me confused with someone else as I'm reasonably certain I've never posted in any of these Sony threads (before last night) nor have I purported the supremacy of Canon or Nikon cameras in a very long time if at all. I'll be the first to admit I'm an asshole but it has nothing to do with the gear I choose to shoot with.  Lighten up.



im just rubbin ribs to bud, all in fun.  i could give two f%@#$ what someone else has for a camera.  its fun to rub the canikon crowd tho, they have such complexes...


----------



## Omofo

o hey tyler said:


> .
> 
> You should experiment with long exposures of yourself playing in traffic.



BHahahaha


----------



## o hey tyler

kojack said:


> bentcountershaft said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You two must have me confused with someone else as I'm reasonably certain I've never posted in any of these Sony threads (before last night) nor have I purported the supremacy of Canon or Nikon cameras in a very long time if at all. I'll be the first to admit I'm an asshole but it has nothing to do with the gear I choose to shoot with.  Lighten up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> im just rubbin ribs to bud, all in fun.  i could give two f%@#$ what someone else has for a camera.  its fun to rub the canikon crowd tho, they have such complexes...
Click to expand...


Likewise, it's fun to rag on the Sony crowd. 

Because of the huge gaping hole that divides them from the rest of the DSLR market share. HILARIOUS!


----------



## argieramos

o hey tyler said:
			
		

> Likewise, it's fun to rag on the Sony crowd.
> 
> Because of the huge gaping hole that divides them from the rest of the DSLR market share. HILARIOUS!



lol. That's the only thing you can brag about. But it still doesn't change the fact that Canon cameras produce inferior images because of their outdated sensors nyehehehe 

Nex-3 vs Canon 7D
http://www.resensor.com/2011/07/nex-3-vs-7d-who-will-win/
You see what I mean? Evidence doesn't lie


----------



## o hey tyler

argieramos said:


> lol. That's the only thing you can brag about. But it still doesn't change the fact that Canon cameras produce inferior images because of their outdated sensors nyehehehe



Likewise, this is the only thing you can "brag" about! See how that's funny? See how they're both totally irrelevant?

It doesn't change the fact that if you picked up my camera, and had the same lights that I had, you could not take as good of a photo as I can, because you don't understand photography! 

Just sayin'.


----------



## 2WheelPhoto

cosmonaut said:


> No noise reduction. *I don't think its that bad.* Considering I come from Olympus where 3200 was unusable in most cases. I thought it cool AT&T put a huge billboard over the Verizon store.LOL


----------



## argieramos

o hey tyler said:
			
		

> Likewise, this is the only thing you can "brag" about! See how that's funny? See how they're both totally irrelevant?
> 
> It doesn't change the fact that if you picked up my camera, and had the same lights that I had, you could not take as good of a photo as I can, because you don't understand photography!
> 
> Just sayin'.



If you really understand photography, you wouldn't start a nonsense argument. You wouldn't troll around the forum.

If I use your camera and your set-up, I probably wouldn't be able to create a photo as good as yours. But I will do better taking more impressive photo with a Sony camera than using a Canon with outdated sensor. 
It's is not about the skills, it's about the photographer. It seems to me you are still on the amateur level. There are things that you don't understand.


----------



## mjhoward




----------



## o hey tyler

argieramos said:


> o hey tyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Likewise, this is the only thing you can "brag" about! See how that's funny? See how they're both totally irrelevant?
> 
> It doesn't change the fact that if you picked up my camera, and had the same lights that I had, you could not take as good of a photo as I can, because you don't understand photography!
> 
> Just sayin'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you really understand photography, you wouldn't start a nonsense argument. You wouldn't troll around the forum.
> 
> If I use your camera and your set-up, I probably wouldn't be able to create a photo as good as yours. But I will do better taking more impressive photo with a Sony camera than using a Canon with outdated sensor.
> It's is not about the skills, it's about the photographer. *It seems to me you are still on the amateur level.* There are things that you don't understand.
Click to expand...


Hilarious. 

It's not about the skills? It's about the photographer? Guess what! NEWSFLASH. The photographer is the ONE WITH THE SKILLS! You really are thick aren't you? 

 What you fail to understand is that actual PHOTOGRAPHIC, and ARTISTIC  KNOWLEDGE is required to use a camera of any type, and use it well. You  are so caught up in the "tech" of the camera, that you can't get past  it. You're a 18 year old kid with no working experience behind a camera.  

The reason that ALL you do is talk about Sony products and how you think  that they are "better" than other brands, but you can't take a photo to  save your life. You don't even post photos anymore, because the C&C  you received was wildly negative and I would guess that you don't have a  thick enough skin to stomach it. 

I also find it funny that someone who freely admits to "not being able to create a photo as good as mine" is qualified to determine whether or not I am an amateur. I've seen your one wedding photo, I've seen your "boudoir." You might just want to stop talking.


----------



## GeorgieGirl

Here is a link to a georgeous shot with a Sony...since this has diminished to camera wars and all...:mrgreen:

Welcome to Facebook - Log In, Sign Up or Learn More


----------



## o hey tyler

GeorgieGirl said:


> Here is a link to a georgeous shot with a Sony...since this has diminished to camera wars and all...:mrgreen:
> 
> Welcome to Facebook - Log In, Sign Up or Learn More



Wow, that clipped red channel is beautiful.


----------



## GeorgieGirl

No idea why that's a problem but it's a good example of why too much weight is given to such things when an image is contrary to the histogram.


----------



## argieramos

o hey tyler said:
			
		

> Hilarious.
> 
> It's not about the skills? It's about the photographer? Guess what! NEWSFLASH. The photographer is the ONE WITH THE SKILLS! You really are thick aren't you?
> 
> What you fail to understand is that actual PHOTOGRAPHIC, and ARTISTIC  KNOWLEDGE is required to use a camera of any type, and use it well. You  are so caught up in the "tech" of the camera, that you can't get past  it. You're a 18 year old kid with no working experience behind a camera.
> 
> The reason that ALL you do is talk about Sony products and how you think  that they are "better" than other brands, but you can't take a photo to  save your life. You don't even post photos anymore, because the C&C  you received was wildly negative and I would guess that you don't have a  thick enough skin to stomach it.
> 
> I also find it funny that someone who freely admits to "not being able to create a photo as good as mine" is qualified to determine whether or not I am an amateur. I've seen your one wedding photo, I've seen your "boudoir." You might just want to stop talking.



Typo. I will correct it.
"We are not talking about the skills in this thread, we are talking about the camera. "

So yea, you are still on an amateur level. A real professional wouldn't diss a camera. They know better that cameras is just merely a tool. That is the thing you don't understand. You don't do anything here but bashing Sony in Sony thread. Obviously, you don't know better. I don't need to be a Pro to see that. If you think you are a Pro, start acting like one. 

I don't post anything new because it's way too cold outside. I don't like to take pictures when it's cold. But i have pictures on my gallery. The bride picture that I posted recieved wildly negative feedback you said? You might wanna check that out again buddy

BTW, don't act like you are the best photographer. You're not even close to your bff Gary.


----------



## argieramos

You will do better in photography with a camera that is not a Canon. Canon sensors are way outdated and behind in today's standard. I already proven that claim with lots of evidence


----------



## o hey tyler

argieramos said:


> o hey tyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hilarious.
> 
> It's not about the skills? It's about the photographer? Guess what! NEWSFLASH. The photographer is the ONE WITH THE SKILLS! You really are thick aren't you?
> 
> What you fail to understand is that actual PHOTOGRAPHIC, and ARTISTIC  KNOWLEDGE is required to use a camera of any type, and use it well. You  are so caught up in the "tech" of the camera, that you can't get past  it. You're a 18 year old kid with no working experience behind a camera.
> 
> The reason that ALL you do is talk about Sony products and how you think  that they are "better" than other brands, but you can't take a photo to  save your life. You don't even post photos anymore, because the C&C  you received was wildly negative and I would guess that you don't have a  thick enough skin to stomach it.
> 
> I also find it funny that someone who freely admits to "not being able to create a photo as good as mine" is qualified to determine whether or not I am an amateur. I've seen your one wedding photo, I've seen your "boudoir." You might just want to stop talking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Typo. I will correct it.
> "We are not talking about the skills in this thread, we are talking about the camera. "
> 
> So yea, you are still on an amateur level. A real professional wouldn't diss a camera. They know better that cameras is just merely a tool. That is the thing you don't understand. You don't do anything here but bashing Sony in Sony thread. Obviously, you don't know better
> 
> BTW, don't act like you are the best photographer. You're not even close to your bff Gary.
Click to expand...


I'm not acting like I'm the "best photographer." I know I am far from it. I'm ASSERTING that I am a better photographer than YOU, and that I can take better pictures than you with what you deem "inferior" equipment. Which is true. YOU are an amateur, so amateur that you took down the photos that you posted for C&C. So amateur that you can't even offer C&C. 

It doesn't even matter if you edited your post. Without skills, there are no good photos. Sorry, that's the way it is. I don't expect you to understand that, because you have the mental aptitude of a 3rd grader.


----------



## mjhoward

argieramos said:


> You will do better in photography with a camera that is not a Canon. Canon sensors are way outdated and behind in today's standard. I already proven that claim with lots of evidence



What happens in a couple of months when you're no longer able to use that excuse?


----------



## belial

argieramos said:
			
		

> If you really understand photography, you wouldn't start a nonsense argument. You wouldn't troll around the forum.
> 
> If I use your camera and your set-up, I probably wouldn't be able to create a photo as good as yours. But I will do better taking more impressive photo with a Sony camera than using a Canon with outdated sensor.
> It's is not about the skills, it's about the photographer. It seems to me you are still on the amateur level. There are things that you don't understand.



Sensor isn't necessarily the most important thing. Besides. The 7d is a 3 year old camera due for an update. Not a fair comparison rating it alongside something brand new


----------



## belial

argieramos said:
			
		

> You will do better in photography with a camera that is not a Canon. Canon sensors are way outdated and behind in today's standard. I already proven that claim with lots of evidence



The sensors of 5 years ago IMO were good enough. Who cares which camera has more overkill?


----------



## SJGordon

argieramos said:


> So yea, you are still on an amateur level. A real professional wouldn't diss a camera. They know better that cameras is just merely a tool.


So where does that put you?  So far I see you do nothing but bash Canon.  



> I don't post anything new because it's way too cold outside. I don't like to take pictures when it's cold.


What?  Dude it has been one of the mildest winters on record for the entire Midwest.  I am a couple hours north of you and can assure you that is a BS excuse.  


 Before you get your knickers in a twist let me explain where I am coming from overall.  What camera system do I use?  Sony.  Why?  Because I shot Minolta for decades before going digital and have a big camera bag of quality Minolta lenses.  If I had shot either Canon or Nikon before and had as many good lenses as I do, then I would have stuck with the brand.  As it is, Sony delivers everything I want and need and does it as well as either Canon, Nikon, or any other camera system could.  If I was shooting strictly Sports for a living, I wouldn't have been shooting Minolta to begin with... Canon has pretty well owned that category for a LONG time.  I have seen some of O Hey Tyler's photos he has posted.  Regardless of camera, sensor, format (FF, crop, point-n-shoot, cell phone, etc...) whatever; he would be able to turn out a quality photo.  The other side of that coin is that I know some shooters that have the financial means to take some really big crappy snapshots with a Nikon D3s and another that does the same with a Canon EOS 1D.  I know if I gave them a cutting edge Hasselblad H4D-60 they would turn out some really, *really* big crappy snapshots.  

You assert that Canon sensors are out of date and therefore junk.  Ever see a print from a 90+ year old Kodak 1A AUTOGRAPH using modern film?  Can't get much older tech that that and frankly I have only seen a few shots from ANY digital system that will come close to the feeling and look of that old tech.  Age really means squat if the camera does what you need it to do, and you know haw to actually USE it.


----------



## o hey tyler

SJGordon said:


> argieramos said:
> 
> 
> 
> So yea, you are still on an amateur level. A real professional wouldn't diss a camera. They know better that cameras is just merely a tool.
> 
> 
> 
> So where does that put you?  So far I see you do nothing but bash Canon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't post anything new because it's way too cold outside. I don't like to take pictures when it's cold.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What?  Dude it has been one of the mildest winters on record for the entire Midwest.  I am a couple hours north of you and can assure you that is a BS excuse.
> 
> 
> Before you get your knickers in a twist let me explain where I am coming from overall.  What camera system do I use?  Sony.  Why?  Because I shot Minolta for decades before going digital and have a big camera bag of quality Minolta lenses.  If I had shot either Canon or Nikon before and had as many good lenses as I do, then I would have stuck with the brand.  As it is, Sony delivers everything I want and need and does it as well as either Canon, Nikon, or any other camera system could.  If I was shooting strictly Sports for a living, I wouldn't have been shooting Minolta to begin with... Canon has pretty well owned that category for a LONG time.  I have seen some of O Hey Tyler's photos he has posted.  Regardless of camera, sensor, format (FF, crop, point-n-shoot, cell phone, etc...) whatever; he would be able to turn out a quality photo.  The other side of that coin is that I know some shooters that have the financial means to take some really big crappy snapshots with a Nikon D3s and another that does the same with a Canon EOS 1D.  I know if I gave them a cutting edge Hasselblad H4D-60 they would turn out some really, *really* big crappy snapshots.
> 
> You assert that Canon sensors are out of date and therefore junk.  Ever see a print from a 90+ year old Kodak 1A AUTOGRAPH using modern film?  Can't get much older tech that that and frankly I have only seen a few shots from ANY digital system that will come close to the feeling and look of that old tech.  Age really means squat if the camera does what you need it to do, and you know haw to actually USE it.
Click to expand...


That's why I often shoot with a 5Dmk1 from 2006... It still produces high quality images... and the filesize isn't 21 megapixels so they don't take forever to download. But like you said, Camera tech means nothing unless you know how to use it.  

Nice post, SJ.


----------



## belial

argieramos said:
			
		

> Wow you didn't actually ignore me. I'm flattered.
> how about the old Nex-3 still beating the newer T3i? Canon sensor is really left behind. lol



The t3i wasn't supposed to be a new sensor. It was a recycling of older tech


----------



## cosmonaut

My computer downloads my Sony 24mpix files just as quick as files from my 12mpix Olympus. I don't shoot a ton of pictures anyway. If one knows what their doing there's no need to spray and pray.


----------



## o hey tyler

cosmonaut said:


> My computer downloads my Sony 24mpix files just as quick as files from my 12mpix Olympus. I don't shoot a ton of pictures anyway. If one knows what their doing there's no need to spray and pray.



Yes, I don't doubt that if the memory cards are the same size that they'll download files at the same rate. But when I am adding them to my LR catalog and rendering standard previews, my 5D1 is MUCH FASTER than rendering of 5D2 files (2x as fast due to double the resolution on the 5D2). There's definitely a marked difference.


----------



## mjhoward

cosmonaut said:


> My computer downloads my Sony 24mpix files just as quick as files from my 12mpix Olympus. I don't shoot a ton of pictures anyway. If one knows what their doing there's no need to spray and pray.



Skieur and Argie must not know what they're doing because their biggest selling point was the 12FPS at full res


----------



## rexbobcat

argieramos said:


> o hey tyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The alleged "full frame" camera that Argue Ramos mentioned is not a full frame camera. It's an APS-H body. 1.3x Crop Factor. I enjoy lugging around a 5lb camera/lens. It gives me good results. If we were talking about the 5D Mark II or D700, that would be a bit different.
> 
> Like  I said, with a good hand at noise removal, the photo should shine. I'm not dissing or putting down your camera. Almost any camera at ISO 3200 can benefit from NR.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fool, That was on the first a77 thread. I've been referring the 1D as APS-H which is also bigger than the APS-C. Nice try. But with that bigger sensor, it's a shame to see it beaten by smaller sensors found in a580,Nex 5n, Nex-7, a77.
> Call Canon and tell them to make sensors that can compete with the 16mp and 24mp of Sony. lol
Click to expand...


The 1D Mark II is 8 years old mate.
It has a second gen. processor when Canon is currently in their 4 gen. of processors/dual processors. 

Also, this ISO is not better than the noise of a 1D at this ISO. This noise is mostly luminance noise from what I can see. The Canon produces noise that is more like color noise. The image from the Nex-7 looks like it has severe image artifacts. I'm not sure if that's the kind of noise that the camera produces naturally, or if it's a product of heavy compression.


----------



## argieramos

o hey tyler said:
			
		

> I'm not acting like I'm the "best photographer." I know I am far from it. I'm ASSERTING that I am a better photographer than YOU, and that I can take better pictures than you with what you deem "inferior" equipment. Which is true. YOU are an amateur, so amateur that you took down the photos that you posted for C&C. So amateur that you can't even offer C&C.
> 
> It doesn't even matter if you edited your post. Without skills, there are no good photos. Sorry, that's the way it is. I don't expect you to understand that, because you have the mental aptitude of a 3rd grader.



You didn't start as a good photographer, so why bashing someone that has less experience?  So you want to change our debate from "camera" to "photographer skills"? You got nothing else to say about this camera argument because you know that I'm right.

I didn't take down the photo that I posted for C&C. http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/people-photography/268161-wedding-photoshoot.html

Your opinion about my ability don't matter to me. I don't give a damn If I am an amatuer to you. I am an amateur, rookie, beginner. Happy now bro? Can we go back to our original discussion now? Don't think you can just change the topic. lol.  
My work will be more amateur looking if I use a Canon camera with outdated sensor. That's why you have to buy expensive lens and good lighting equipment, because you couldn't take decent pictures without those. Hehehe..


----------



## argieramos

mjhoward said:
			
		

> What happens in a couple of months when you're no longer able to use that excuse?



We still have to wait. But as of now Canon best APS-C 7D IQ is inferior to Sony worst mirrorless, the NEX-3. 
http://www.resensor.com/2011/07/nex-3-vs-7d-who-will-win/:)


----------



## argieramos

belial said:
			
		

> The sensors of 5 years ago IMO were good enough. Who cares which camera has more overkill?



Your paps Tyler do. Start reading from the start. You will see who started this nonsense debate.


----------



## argieramos

SJGordon said:
			
		

> So where does that put you?  So far I see you do nothing but bash Canon.



You didn't see everything. You don't know the whole story.



> What?  Dude it has been one of the mildest winters on record for the entire Midwest.  I am a couple hours north of you and can assure you that is a BS excuse.



I just don't like to shoot on a winter season. It is just my personal preference. How is that an excuse?



> Before you get your knickers in a twist let me explain where I am coming from overall.  What camera system do I use?  Sony.  Why?  Because I shot Minolta for decades before going digital and have a big camera bag of quality Minolta lenses.  If I had shot either Canon or Nikon before and had as many good lenses as I do, then I would have stuck with the brand.  As it is, Sony delivers everything I want and need and does it as well as either Canon, Nikon, or any other camera system could.  If I was shooting strictly Sports for a living, I wouldn't have been shooting Minolta to begin with... Canon has pretty well owned that category for a LONG time.  I have seen some of O Hey Tyler's photos he has posted.  Regardless of camera, sensor, format (FF, crop, point-n-shoot, cell phone, etc...) whatever; he would be able to turn out a quality photo.  The other side of that coin is that I know some shooters that have the financial means to take some really big crappy snapshots with a Nikon D3s and another that does the same with a Canon EOS 1D.  I know if I gave them a cutting edge Hasselblad H4D-60 they would turn out some really, really big crappy snapshots.



lol. That's what I have been telling to these guys. It's not about the camera. It's the person behind it, the Photographer. Tyler and his Canon troll pals started bashing Sony camera. I am just telling them that before they diss Sony camera, make sure their favorite brand (Canon) is actually have something good to compete to a camera that they are bashing. I don't hate Canon. Infact, I defended it from Derrel in Nikon forum.



> You assert that Canon sensors are out of date and therefore junk.  Ever see a print from a 90+ year old Kodak 1A AUTOGRAPH using modern film?  Can't get much older tech that that and frankly I have only seen a few shots from ANY digital system that will come close to the feeling and look of that old tech.  Age really means squat if the camera does what you need it to do, and you know haw to actually USE it.



Canon cameras are good. Their sensors are just behind Sony. That's all


----------



## argieramos

o hey tyler said:
			
		

> That's why I often shoot with a 5Dmk1 from 2006... It still produces high quality images... and the filesize isn't 21 megapixels so they don't take forever to download. But like you said, Camera tech means nothing unless you know how to use it.


Now you are saying that. You were not like in the a77 thread. lol


----------



## argieramos

belial said:
			
		

> The t3i wasn't supposed to be a new sensor. It was a recycling of older tech



That's my point. New camera but old sensor. Meaning outdated sensor


----------



## EchoingWhisper

argieramos said:


> belial said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The t3i wasn't supposed to be a new sensor. It was a recycling of older tech
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's my point. New camera but old sensor. Meaning outdated sensor
Click to expand...


Two cameras at the same year - DxOMark - Compare cameras side by sideAlthough the Nikon sensor gets better point, I think the Canon sensor is better. At 50% higher resolution + 10% smaller sensor (supposedly loss - more than half a stop), a loss of 4 points (actual loss - less than one third of a stop), the Canon sensor was actually 1 third of a stop better. But once Sony's sensor jumped in, Canon have never beaten any of cameras with Sony sensor.


----------



## o hey tyler

argieramos said:


> o hey tyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's why I often shoot with a 5Dmk1 from 2006... It still produces high quality images... and the filesize isn't 21 megapixels so they don't take forever to download. But like you said, Camera tech means nothing unless you know how to use it.
> 
> 
> 
> Now you are saying that. You were not like in the a77 thread. lol
Click to expand...


I've been saying it in this thread. Explicitly. Camera tech means nothing if you don't know how to use it. 

And you don't know how to use it, Argue.


----------



## o hey tyler

argieramos said:


> My work will be more amateur looking if I use a Canon camera with outdated sensor. *That's why you have to buy expensive lens and good lighting equipment, because you couldn't take decent pictures without those.* Hehehe..



Holy **** you really are that stupid? Have fun with your A77 and kit lens while shooting all available light photography. I'm sure that will produce some great images. :lmao: This is why you will never be successful at what you do. Because you don't "get" photography. 

(SPOILER ALERT: IT HAS TO DO WITH CAPTURING LIGHT.)


----------



## belial

EchoingWhisper said:
			
		

> Two cameras at the same year - DxOMark - Compare cameras side by sideAlthough the Nikon sensor gets better point, I think the Canon sensor is better. At 50% higher resolution + 10% smaller sensor (supposedly loss - more than half a stop), a loss of 4 points (actual loss - less than one third of a stop), the Canon sensor was actually 1 third of a stop better. But once Sony's sensor jumped in, Canon have never beaten any of cameras with Sony sensor.



And yet most pros use canon and take great pictures with them? How is that possible when the sensors are clearly behind? Once again who cares who has more overkill. Sony is merely trying to win their losing battle in the slr world.


----------



## Nikon_Josh

HE doesn't take photos when it's too cold outside!!!!! :lmao: Maybe you should put a scarf on Argie..  This really did make me laugh out loud, classic!


----------



## argieramos

o hey tyler said:


> argieramos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> o hey tyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's why I often shoot with a 5Dmk1 from 2006... It still produces high quality images... and the filesize isn't 21 megapixels so they don't take forever to download. But like you said, Camera tech means nothing unless you know how to use it.
> 
> 
> 
> Now you are saying that. You were not like in the a77 thread. lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've been saying it in this thread. Explicitly. Camera tech means nothing if you don't know how to use it.
> 
> And you don't know how to use it, Argue.
Click to expand...


You know how to use your camera but your pictures still not as good as your papi,Derrel pictures. Why? Because you are using Canon. Hehehe


----------



## argieramos

o hey tyler said:


> argieramos said:
> 
> 
> 
> My work will be more amateur looking if I use a Canon camera with outdated sensor. *That's why you have to buy expensive lens and good lighting equipment, because you couldn't take decent pictures without those.* Hehehe..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Holy **** you really are that stupid? Have fun with your A77 and kit lens while shooting all available light photography. I'm sure that will produce some great images. :lmao: This is why *you will never be successful at what you do*. Because you don't "get" photography.
> 
> (SPOILER ALERT: IT HAS TO DO WITH CAPTURING LIGHT.)
Click to expand...


If "successful" you mean being a Professional, I don't have a plan of becoming one. You said I don't "get" photography? I could ask you the very same question. Remember, you are the one who brought this nonsense camera argument up in here. You think bashing a camera will make you a Pro? The photographer is the one that make the difference. Tyler boy, you are learning from someone that you're calling an amateur. lol.


----------



## argieramos

belial said:


> EchoingWhisper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two cameras at the same year - DxOMark - Compare cameras side by sideAlthough the Nikon sensor gets better point, I think the Canon sensor is better. At 50% higher resolution + 10% smaller sensor (supposedly loss - more than half a stop), a loss of 4 points (actual loss - less than one third of a stop), the Canon sensor was actually 1 third of a stop better. But once Sony's sensor jumped in, Canon have never beaten any of cameras with Sony sensor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yet most pros use canon and take great pictures with them? How is that possible when the sensors are clearly behind? Once again who cares who has more overkill. Sony is merely trying to win their losing battle in the slr world.
Click to expand...


<Facepalm> Pros take great pictures because they are good photographers, f0ol. Not because they use Canon. And what battle that you are talking about? You mean SLR marketshare? Do you actually care about that? Okay take the more popular brand, I take the better performer one.


----------



## argieramos

Nikon_Josh said:


> HE doesn't take photos when it's too cold outside!!!!! :lmao: Maybe you should put a scarf on Argie..  This really did make me laugh out loud, classic!



Look who's back! You always show up when there are two or more people posting and debating against me. 
Did you practice? Don't bore me, aight? hehehe!!


----------



## Nikon_Josh

argieramos said:


> Nikon_Josh said:
> 
> 
> 
> HE doesn't take photos when it's too cold outside!!!!! :lmao: Maybe you should put a scarf on Argie..  This really did make me laugh out loud, classic!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look who's back! You always show up when there are two or more people posting and debating against me.
> Did you practice? Don't bore me, aight? hehehe!!
Click to expand...


Bore you?? You do a good job at boring everyone else with your TROLL antics.. the mistake people keep making though is to respond to a silly little girl such as yourself that is only on this forum to cause trouble!

Now now, young lady, go back to editing your photos on your iphone app you took in the summer before it got too cold for you. How about you wrap up warm, put on a big coat and your pink scarf and go out and actually take some photos?? Oh no, wait I forgot. You prefer to spend all your time on an internet forum, telling everyone that Canon uses inferior sensors and how Sony is simply better.  I'm sorry, but seriously you said it was too cold for you to go and take photos? HAHAHAHAHAHHAHA! MAN UP!!! What a complete WOMAN!


----------



## belial

argieramos said:
			
		

> You know how to use your camera but your pictures still not as good as your papi,Derrel pictures. Why? Because you are using Canon. Hehehe



Derrel uses canon too. Check out his blog. The camera stats mean next to nothing as far as photography. They just make things more convenient. They're right. You don't understand photography whatsoever. Too have too much of an equipment fetish. Means you're a noob and will always be nothing but a noob.


----------



## belial

argieramos said:
			
		

> <Facepalm> Pros take great pictures because they are good photographers, f0ol. Not because they use Canon. And what battle that you are talking about? You mean SLR marketshare? Do you actually care about that? Okay take the more popular brand, I take the better performer one.



I didn't say canon made you a pro. I said fact remains that most pros use canon. This has nothing to do with market shares. It's observation at what the top end photographers choose


----------



## belial

I'm out. There's never been a bigger moron or failure in this forum than Argie. It's too pathetic for me


----------



## belial

argieramos said:
			
		

> <Facepalm> Pros take great pictures because they are good photographers, f0ol. Not because they use Canon. And what battle that you are talking about? You mean SLR marketshare? Do you actually care about that? Okay take the more popular brand, I take the better performer one.



I take the better complete package because I understand how little sensor stats mean.


----------



## EchoingWhisper

belial said:


> argieramos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> <Facepalm> Pros take great pictures because they are good photographers, f0ol. Not because they use Canon. And what battle that you are talking about? You mean SLR marketshare? Do you actually care about that? Okay take the more popular brand, I take the better performer one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I take the better complete package because I understand how little sensor stats mean.
Click to expand...


True. Shouldn't have been electrified by the sensor stats.


----------



## SJGordon

argieramos said:


> Look who's back! You always show up when there are two or more people posting and debating against me.
> Did you practice? Don't bore me, aight? hehehe!!



Just need some clarification so I know how to take your posts in the future.  Are you this big of an antagonistic pecker-head in real life as well, or is it just a special online persona you have decided to bestow upon this forum?


----------



## o hey tyler

argieramos said:


> o hey tyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> argieramos said:
> 
> 
> 
> My work will be more amateur looking if I use a Canon camera with outdated sensor. *That's why you have to buy expensive lens and good lighting equipment, because you couldn't take decent pictures without those.* Hehehe..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Holy **** you really are that stupid? Have fun with your A77 and kit lens while shooting all available light photography. I'm sure that will produce some great images. :lmao: This is why *you will never be successful at what you do*. Because you don't "get" photography.
> 
> (SPOILER ALERT: IT HAS TO DO WITH CAPTURING LIGHT.)
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If "successful" you mean being a Professional, I don't have a plan of becoming one. You said I don't "get" photography? I could ask you the very same question. Remember, you are the one who brought this nonsense camera argument up in here. You think bashing a camera will make you a Pro? The photographer is the one that make the difference. Tyler boy, you are learning from someone that you're calling an amateur. lol.
Click to expand...


Correction, I'm not learning anything from you, because you can barely piece a sentence together or cite facts. 

I'm glad you don't have aspirations of becoming a professional photographer, because it would end poorly.

It's clear that I understand photography, because I know it revolves around capturing light. You think it doesn't matter how much light there is, as long as you have a 'good' sensor. When in fact that couldn't be further from the truth. 

I AM THE ONE who brought up a camera argument? That's hilarious. 

You are entirely correct. The photographer is the one that makes the difference, and you are not a photographer... Instead, you're an 18 year old who struggles to keep drool from running down your chin. 

PS. Derrel shoots both Canon and Nikon. Fail argument fails.


----------



## belial

o hey tyler said:
			
		

> PS. Derrel shoots both Canon and Nikon. Fail argument fails.



And has said he likes his canon better for all his non pro shooting. Derrel just feels nikon has the better metering systems so is more suited for his pro work. I went to derrels blog and did my homework


----------



## argieramos

belial said:
			
		

> And has said he likes his canon better for all his non pro shooting. Derrel just feels nikon has the better metering systems so is more suited for his pro work. I went to derrels blog and did my homework



Yes, for non pro shooting. Because his Canon doesn't deliver pro quality results! Bwuahahaha!!!!


----------



## o hey tyler

argieramos said:


> belial said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And has said he likes his canon better for all his non pro shooting. Derrel just feels nikon has the better metering systems so is more suited for his pro work. I went to derrels blog and did my homework
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, for non pro shooting. Because his Canon doesn't deliver pro quality results! Bwuahahaha!!!!
Click to expand...


That's funny, because I delivered high quality magazine prints for the interior designer of the Flagship Timberland stores. He did one in NY, and several overseas. London, Paris, Oslo, Hamburg, etc. If he can use my photos for a magazine, or lager prints, I'm pretty sure that constitutes a professional photo. 

But what would you know? You can't even operate a camera. Much less take a photo worthy of a magazine. 

Go out and practice photography. Get your head out of your ass.


----------



## argieramos

Nikon_Josh said:
			
		

> Bore you?? You do a good job at boring everyone else with your TROLL antics.. the mistake people keep making though is to respond to a silly little girl such as yourself that is only on this forum to cause trouble!
> 
> Now now, young lady, go back to editing your photos on your iphone app you took in the summer before it got too cold for you. How about you wrap up warm, put on a big coat and your pink scarf and go out and actually take some photos?? Oh no, wait I forgot. You prefer to spend all your time on an internet forum, telling everyone that Canon uses inferior sensors and how Sony is simply better.  I'm sorry, but seriously you said it was too cold for you to go and take photos? HAHAHAHAHAHHAHA! MAN UP!!! What a complete WOMAN!



lol. You bore me to death Nikon_Josh. Yout attack seems like it was made by a mentally challenged with no connection to the topic. "I can't beat argie in this argument. Oh I know! I will just make fun of him for not shooting on the winter season!" lol I thought your youtube video attack was lame. Nyahahaha!!


----------



## argieramos

belial said:
			
		

> Derrel uses canon too. Check out his blog. The camera stats mean next to nothing as far as photography. They just make things more convenient. They're right. You don't understand photography whatsoever. Too have too much of an equipment fetish. Means you're a noob and will always be nothing but a noob.



<Another facepalm> 
That's what I said to these guys before. You don't understand what's going on in here, so why butt-in? Are you here to act as Tyler and Nikon_Josh savior? 

Sensor stats mean something? Why can't you tell that to Tyler who started this argument? Scared? lol


----------



## o hey tyler

argieramos said:


> belial said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Derrel uses canon too. Check out his blog. The camera stats mean next to nothing as far as photography. They just make things more convenient. They're right. You don't understand photography whatsoever. Too have too much of an equipment fetish. Means you're a noob and will always be nothing but a noob.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> <Another facepalm>
> That's what I said to these guys before. You don't understand what's going on in here, so why butt-in? Are you here to act as Tyler and Nikon_Josh savior?
> 
> Sensor stats mean something? Why can't you tell that to Tyler who started this argument? Scared? lol
Click to expand...


Sensor stats don't mean anything when you have no comprehension of how photography works. Like yourself. That's what everyone's saying. You're just too thick headed to grasp that concept.


----------



## argieramos

belial said:
			
		

> I'm out. There's never been a bigger moron or failure in this forum than Argie. It's too pathetic for me



Excuses. You just can't handle me. You, Tyler, and Josh are gettiing killed here. 

All the evidence that I posted doesn't lie. Canon sensors are outdated. Like I said, Canon best APS-C and semi-Pro level camera, the 7D is inferior to the worst mirrorless of Sony, the NEX-3 in terms of Image quality. You can't deny the fact. lol

Actually, one Pro that I know think Canon is the new Kodak! Ouch! Bwuahaha!!


----------



## o hey tyler

argieramos said:


> belial said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm out. There's never been a bigger moron or failure in this forum than Argie. It's too pathetic for me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Excuses. You just can't handle me. You, Tyler, and Josh are gettiing killed here.
> 
> All the evidence that I posted doesn't lie. Canon sensors are outdated. Like I said, Canon best APS-C and semi-Pro level camera, the 7D is inferior to the worst mirrorless of Sony, the NEX-3 in terms of Image quality. You can't deny the fact. lol
> 
> Actually, one Pro that I know think Canon is the new Kodak! Ouch! Bwuahaha!!
Click to expand...


I don't know if you realize this, but you're the only person with this backwards logic. The 7D is all around a better camera than the Nex 3, and the entire Nex series. You can even compare them on your favorite site Compare digital cameras - Snapsort 

Canon doesn't include all sorts of gimmicky features like "in camera hdr" or "swing pano" because they're just that, a gimmick. You'll get much better HDRs if you process them yourself with a bracketed exposure, and you'll have a much better pano if you take your own shots on a tripod. 

Again, I don't expect you to know that. Because it's like a fan of "House MD" trying to argue that it's Lupus... Every single time. Guess what? It's never lupus.


----------



## argieramos

o hey tyler said:
			
		

> Correction, I'm not learning anything from you, because you can barely piece a sentence together or cite facts.
> 
> I'm glad you don't have aspirations of becoming a professional photographer, because it would end poorly.
> 
> It's clear that I understand photography, because I know it revolves around capturing light. You think it doesn't matter how much light there is, as long as you have a 'good' sensor. When in fact that couldn't be further from the truth.
> 
> I AM THE ONE who brought up a camera argument? That's hilarious.
> 
> You are entirely correct. The photographer is the one that makes the difference, and you are not a photographer... Instead, you're an 18 year old who struggles to keep drool from running down your chin.
> 
> PS. Derrel shoots both Canon and Nikon. Fail argument fails.



How is that fail? I bet he hate his canon. He is the one who brought up this Canon sensors are behind Sony issue. You have objection? Talk to him. 

Yes you are learning something from me. Remember first you were dissing Sony cameras. Then I posted something about how a very good photographer with not so good camera will beat a moron using  the 1DX. Look what you are saying in this thread now. You learned that from me. lol


----------



## o hey tyler

argieramos said:


> Yes you are learning something from me. Remember first you were dissing Sony cameras. Then I posted something about how a very good photographer with not so good camera will beat a moron using  the 1DX. Look what you are saying in this thread now. You learned that from me. lol



What are you talking about? 

I don't usually say this, but have you been screened for a learning disability? 

I'm the one saying "without knowledge of photography, it doesn't matter how good your camera is." I would be the good photographer with a 10D and a 50mm f/1.8, and you'd be the moron with the Sony A900, or A77 (your pick!), and I'd still take better photos. 

Heck, I take dumps with better aesthetic composition than the photos you take... and then I flush them down the toilet.


----------



## argieramos

o hey tyler said:
			
		

> That's funny, because I delivered high quality magazine prints for the interior designer of the Flagship Timberland stores. He did one in NY, and several overseas. London, Paris, Oslo, Hamburg, etc. If he can use my photos for a magazine, or lager prints, I'm pretty sure that constitutes a professional photo.
> 
> But what would you know? You can't even operate a camera. Much less take a photo worthy of a magazine.
> 
> Go out and practice photography. Get your head out of your ass.



Seriously? I am not a pro but not very impressed with your work. I have seen way better photos from your troll buddy Gary and Derrel. You are not even close to
them. lol

Let me tell you what, you can make fun of my ability. You think I care? It doesn't change the fact that you are using a canon camera. Ewwww! Bwuahahahaha


----------



## argieramos

o hey tyler said:
			
		

> Sensor stats don't mean anything when you have no comprehension of how photography works. Like yourself. That's what everyone's saying. You're just too thick headed to grasp that concept.



Why didn't you start this debate then?
You changed your claim because you found out Canon cameras are inferior and you have no other way to prove otherwise? lol

Everybody know it is the photographer who makes the difference. Funny, you didn't know that before. 

But yea, you will do better with a camera that is not a canon.


----------



## o hey tyler

argieramos said:


> o hey tyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sensor stats don't mean anything when you have no comprehension of how photography works. Like yourself. That's what everyone's saying. You're just too thick headed to grasp that concept.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why didn't you start this debate then?
> You changed your claim because you know Canon cameras are inferior? lol
> 
> Everybody know it is the photographer who makes the difference. Funny, you didn't know that before.
> 
> But yea, you will do better with a camera that is not a canon.
Click to expand...


I've been making this claim from the get-go. You're the one all high and mighty about how you NEED THE ULTIMATE SENSOR TECHNOLOGY. Which of course, you don't realize is far from the truth.


----------



## argieramos

o hey tyler said:
			
		

> I don't know if you realize this, but you're the only person with this backwards logic. The 7D is all around a better camera than the Nex 3, and the entire Nex series. You can even compare them on your favorite site Compare digital cameras - Snapsort
> 
> Canon doesn't include all sorts of gimmicky features like "in camera hdr" or "swing pano" because they're just that, a gimmick. You'll get much better HDRs if you process them yourself with a bracketed exposure, and you'll have a much better pano if you take your own shots on a tripod.
> 
> Again, I don't expect you to know that. Because it's like a fan of "House MD" trying to argue that it's Lupus... Every single time. Guess what? It's never lupus.



Duh! The 7D overall is a better camera. The ergonomics, the control, etc. I am talking about the IQ the sensor can give.
7D is way inferior to the NEX-3
http://www.resensor.com/2011/07/nex-3-vs-7d-who-will-win/

You see that? 7D result looks sh** compare to the Nex-3 bwuahahahaha!!

Call the auto-HDR and sweep pano gimmicks. Having something like that is better than not having at all. Have fun with your boring Canon. lol


----------



## 2WheelPhoto

*argieramos*, where do you come up with these replies?  Do you believe your chatter?


----------



## argieramos

o hey tyler said:
			
		

> What are you talking about?
> 
> I don't usually say this, but have you been screened for a learning disability?
> 
> I'm the one saying "without knowledge of photography, it doesn't matter how good your camera is." I would be the good photographer with a 10D and a 50mm f/1.8, and you'd be the moron with the Sony A900, or A77 (your pick!), and I'd still take better photos.
> 
> Heck, I take dumps with better aesthetic composition than the photos you take... and then I flush them down the toilet.



Do you remember what you were posting on the first a77 thread when we first argue about this matter? If you are saying now is true, why did you start that damn argument? you need to see your doctor lol


----------



## argieramos

o hey tyler said:
			
		

> I've been making this claim from the get-go. You're the one all high and mighty about how you NEED THE ULTIMATE SENSOR TECHNOLOGY. Which of course, you don't realize is far from the truth.



Now you didn't. Go back to the a77 thread. Are you suffering from amnesia?


----------



## mjhoward

Can someone just ban this instigator already???


----------



## argieramos

mjhoward said:
			
		

> Can someone just ban this instigator already???



Just because you don't agree with me doesn't mean I should be banned. What did I do wrong? Give me a list.

I am open to more friendly discussion. You guys started this.


----------



## mjhoward

argieramos said:


> You guys started this.



I believe you started instigating with the 5th post in the thread.  Nobody else had up to that point.



argieramos said:


> That made your 1D MkII shot at that ISO looks like was taken by a point and shoot camera lol.


----------



## argieramos

mjhoward said:
			
		

> I believe you started instigating with the 5th post in the thread.  Nobody else had up to that point.



This is from the old thread

Tyler:"Of course you're not dumb as a box of rocks. If you were, you'd own an A77"

You didn't say something about that.

As I said before, my behavior in this forum is just the reflection of yours. But you don't see me attacking Canon or Nikon in their forum. If you see my post in the D800 thread Nikon forum, you will see that I am all about giving friendly discussion. You guys started this attack, I am just trying to finish it


----------



## mjhoward

argieramos said:


> This is from the old thread
> 
> Tyler:"Of course you're not dumb as a box of rocks. If you were, you'd own an A77"
> 
> You didn't say something about that.



What does that have to do with this thread?  Don't bother answering  because the question is rhetorical and I'm done speaking with you.


----------



## 2WheelPhoto

mjhoward said:


> argieramos said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is from the old thread
> 
> Tyler:"Of course you're not dumb as a box of rocks. If you were, you'd own an A77"
> 
> You didn't say something about that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What does that have to do with this thread?  Don't bother answering  because the question is rhetorical and I'm done speaking with you.
Click to expand...



About as much as this 2007 point and shoot camera shot of Vicky on one of my bikes heh


----------



## argieramos

mjhoward said:
			
		

> What does that have to do with this thread?  Don't bother answering  because the question is rhetorical and I'm done speaking with you.



See? Look at the attitude of yours.  I am trying to have a nice conversation with you. lol
All these arguments didn't start in this thread. The old post of Tyler was made in the same forum. The "Sony" forum. 
You are the one who keep talking me, obviously you are not done talking to me.


----------



## bentcountershaft

View Profile - Add to ignore list - Confirm - Done


----------



## belial

argieramos said:
			
		

> Yes, for non pro shooting. Because his Canon doesn't deliver pro quality results! Bwuahahaha!!!!



Has nothing to do with the sensor. Nikons tend to have more advanced metering. Canon just barely caught up in non color blind metering and Sony hasn't gotten there yet btw. Sensor really doesn't mean that much


----------



## belial

Personally I like the look of shots off a canon sensor. It's just personal preference but I go by what my eyes see. Not what the sensor rates at


----------



## SJGordon

2WheelPhoto said:


> About as much as this 2007 point and shoot camera shot of Vicky on one of my bikes heh



You know, I think that has a LOT to do with this discussion.  Maybe if you could post 15 or 20 more of Vicky on the bike we could discuss the technical merits of the point and shoot camera you were using... and compare it to a Sony.    Nice bike, nicer girl on the bike LOL.


----------



## argieramos

belial said:
			
		

> Has nothing to do with the sensor. Nikons tend to have more advanced metering. Canon just barely caught up in non color blind metering and Sony hasn't gotten there yet btw. Sensor really doesn't mean that much



Your opinion. That's a harsh claim coming from someone who don't use an alpha.
Still doesn't change the fact that Canon best semi-Pro level 7D IQ is inferior to the worst mirrorless camera of Sony. 
Sensor doesn't mean that much? lol. Tell me that you're joking.

Derrel has a Canon and Nikon, but like his Nikon more.
*Gary Fong*, a real Pro and inventor of lightsphere has a Canon, Nikon, and Sony. He like his Sony more 










"Canon the new Kodak"


----------



## argieramos

belial said:
			
		

> Personally I like the look of shots off a canon sensor. It's just personal preference but I go by what my eyes see. Not what the sensor rates at



this one is not about sensor rates
http://www.resensor.com/2011/07/nex-3-vs-7d-who-will-win/


----------



## Crollo

mjhoward said:


> Can someone just ban this instigator already???



There should be a voting page for banning members. That'd work out pretty well.


----------



## belial

Crollo said:
			
		

> There should be a voting page for banning members. That'd work out pretty well.


Thumb up


----------



## belial

argieramos said:
			
		

> Your opinion. That's a harsh claim coming from someone who don't use an alpha.
> Still doesn't change the fact that Canon best semi-Pro level 7D IQ is inferior to the worst mirrorless camera of Sony.
> Sensor doesn't mean that much? lol. Tell me that you're joking.
> 
> Derrel has a Canon and Nikon, but like his Nikon more.
> Gary Fong, a real Pro and inventor of lightsphere has a Canon, Nikon, and Sony. He like his Sony more
> 
> "Canon the new Kodak"



Who cares what a specific pro thinks. Sony has a horrible lens selection and lenses are what matter. I may go Sony when they actually get some decent glass


----------



## belial

argieramos said:
			
		

> Your opinion. That's a harsh claim coming from someone who don't use an alpha.
> Still doesn't change the fact that Canon best semi-Pro level 7D IQ is inferior to the worst mirrorless camera of Sony.
> Sensor doesn't mean that much? lol. Tell me that you're joking.
> 
> Derrel has a Canon and Nikon, but like his Nikon more.
> Gary Fong, a real Pro and inventor of lightsphere has a Canon, Nikon, and Sony. He like his Sony more
> 
> "Canon the new Kodak"



Yes the biggest camera seller in the world is going bankrupt. That doesn't even make sense


----------



## belial

And the main thing that suppsed pro criticizes is that canon does not autofocus on video mode. An option a PRO owning a still camera shouldn't be concerned with


----------



## o hey tyler

belial said:


> argieramos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your opinion. That's a harsh claim coming from someone who don't use an alpha.
> Still doesn't change the fact that Canon best semi-Pro level 7D IQ is inferior to the worst mirrorless camera of Sony.
> Sensor doesn't mean that much? lol. Tell me that you're joking.
> 
> Derrel has a Canon and Nikon, but like his Nikon more.
> Gary Fong, a real Pro and inventor of lightsphere has a Canon, Nikon, and Sony. He like his Sony more
> 
> "Canon the new Kodak"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who cares what a specific pro thinks. Sony has a horrible lens selection and lenses are what matter. I may go Sony when they actually get some decent glass
Click to expand...


Gary Fong is hardly a pro photographer. I wouldn't invest any money in his products.


----------



## rexbobcat

argieramos said:


> belial said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Has nothing to do with the sensor. Nikons tend to have more advanced metering. Canon just barely caught up in non color blind metering and Sony hasn't gotten there yet btw. Sensor really doesn't mean that much
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your opinion. That's a harsh claim coming from someone who don't use an alpha.
> Still doesn't change the fact that Canon best semi-Pro level 7D IQ is inferior to the worst mirrorless camera of Sony.
> Sensor doesn't mean that much? lol. Tell me that you're joking.
> 
> Derrel has a Canon and Nikon, but like his Nikon more.
> *Gary Fong*, a real Pro and inventor of lightsphere has a Canon, Nikon, and Sony. He like his Sony more
> 
> 
> 
> "Canon the new Kodak"
Click to expand...


Your opinions don't make any sense. The high ISO of the Nex looks really bad. It looks the same as my 60D at 5000 ISO. And the 60D is even worse than the 7D so....yeah....


----------



## EchoingWhisper

rexbobcat said:
			
		

> Your opinions don't make any sense. The high ISO of the Nex looks really bad. It looks the same as my 60D at 5000 ISO. And the 60D is even worse than the 7D so....yeah....



That is because live view is used, not because of the lousy sensor.


----------



## mjhoward

EchoingWhisper said:


> That is because live view is used, not because of the lousy sensor.




Say what??


----------



## EchoingWhisper

mjhoward said:


> EchoingWhisper said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is because live view is used, not because of the lousy sensor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Say what??
Click to expand...


Live view makes the camera hot, which increases noise level.


----------



## bentcountershaft

I've read that before but never tested it as I never use live view.  From what I understand it happens only on longer exposures in normal situations but if you're live view full time for several minutes at a time I would think the effects would be at least somewhat detrimental.


----------



## EchoingWhisper

bentcountershaft said:


> I've read that before but never tested it as I never use live view.  From what I understand it happens only on longer exposures in normal situations but if you're live view full time for several minutes at a time I would think the effects would be at least somewhat detrimental.



Live view do actually cause a lot of heat that it's effect is able to be seen on pictures.


----------



## o hey tyler

EchoingWhisper said:


> bentcountershaft said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've read that before but never tested it as I never use live view.  From what I understand it happens only on longer exposures in normal situations but if you're live view full time for several minutes at a time I would think the effects would be at least somewhat detrimental.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Live view do actually cause a lot of heat that it's effect is able to be seen on pictures.
Click to expand...


So does that mean that since SLT cameras are continuously using the sensor to display the image on the EVF will inherently have noisier images? I guess that would explain a few things...


----------



## EchoingWhisper

o hey tyler said:


> EchoingWhisper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bentcountershaft said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've read that before but never tested it as I never use live view.  From what I understand it happens only on longer exposures in normal situations but if you're live view full time for several minutes at a time I would think the effects would be at least somewhat detrimental.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Live view do actually cause a lot of heat that it's effect is able to be seen on pictures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So does that mean that since SLT cameras are continuously using the sensor to display the image on the EVF will inherently have noisier images? I guess that would explain a few things...
Click to expand...


Don't SLTs have optical viewfinders?

EDIT: Seems like they don't have any optical viewfinders. Thought that the mirror reflects the light to the optical viewfinder before this, but realised its for the autofocus array. This is kind of a stupid design - you lose the optical viewfinder for a little better autofocus? No way. Heat build up on the sensor due to live view and the loss of light from the mirror are the main cause of noise.


----------



## argieramos

belial said:


> argieramos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your opinion. That's a harsh claim coming from someone who don't use an alpha.
> Still doesn't change the fact that Canon best semi-Pro level 7D IQ is inferior to the worst mirrorless camera of Sony.
> Sensor doesn't mean that much? lol. Tell me that you're joking.
> 
> Derrel has a Canon and Nikon, but like his Nikon more.
> Gary Fong, a real Pro and inventor of lightsphere has a Canon, Nikon, and Sony. He like his Sony more
> 
> "Canon the new Kodak"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who cares what a specific pro thinks. Sony has a horrible lens selection and lenses are what matter. I may go Sony when they actually get some decent glass
Click to expand...


Who cares about the quantity of lens selection. Do you buy all those lens? Sony and third parties cover almost everything that photographer usualy use. Besides, Zeiss on Sony put Nikon and Canon lenses to their place


----------



## argieramos

o hey tyler said:


> belial said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> argieramos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your opinion. That's a harsh claim coming from someone who don't use an alpha.
> Still doesn't change the fact that Canon best semi-Pro level 7D IQ is inferior to the worst mirrorless camera of Sony.
> Sensor doesn't mean that much? lol. Tell me that you're joking.
> 
> Derrel has a Canon and Nikon, but like his Nikon more.
> Gary Fong, a real Pro and inventor of lightsphere has a Canon, Nikon, and Sony. He like his Sony more
> 
> "Canon the new Kodak"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who cares what a specific pro thinks. Sony has a horrible lens selection and lenses are what matter. I may go Sony when they actually get some decent glass
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gary Fong is hardly a pro photographer. I wouldn't invest any money in his products.
Click to expand...


Do your research. It seems like you don't know anything him and what he achieved.


----------



## Drake

EchoingWhisper said:


> mjhoward said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EchoingWhisper said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is because live view is used, not because of the lousy sensor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Say what??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Live view makes the camera hot, which increases noise level.
Click to expand...

That's the theory, but in practice the effect is marginal unless you use your live view for hours non stop.


----------



## argieramos

rexbobcat said:


> argieramos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> belial said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Has nothing to do with the sensor. Nikons tend to have more advanced metering. Canon just barely caught up in non color blind metering and Sony hasn't gotten there yet btw. Sensor really doesn't mean that much
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your opinion. That's a harsh claim coming from someone who don't use an alpha.
> Still doesn't change the fact that Canon best semi-Pro level 7D IQ is inferior to the worst mirrorless camera of Sony.
> Sensor doesn't mean that much? lol. Tell me that you're joking.
> 
> Derrel has a Canon and Nikon, but like his Nikon more.
> *Gary Fong*, a real Pro and inventor of lightsphere has a Canon, Nikon, and Sony. He like his Sony more
> 
> 
> 
> "Canon the new Kodak"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your opinions don't make any sense. The high ISO of the Nex looks really bad. It looks the same as my 60D at 5000 ISO. And the 60D is even worse than the 7D so....yeah....
Click to expand...


Your claim means nothing if you can't back it up with proven facts. I have been putting my evidence on here  and my evidence show how inferior Canon sensors are


----------



## argieramos

o hey tyler said:


> EchoingWhisper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bentcountershaft said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've read that before but never tested it as I never use live view.  From what I understand it happens only on longer exposures in normal situations but if you're live view full time for several minutes at a time I would think the effects would be at least somewhat detrimental.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Live view do actually cause a lot of heat that it's effect is able to be seen on pictures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So does that mean that since SLT cameras are continuously using the sensor to display the image on the EVF will inherently have noisier images? I guess that would explain a few things...
Click to expand...


Asking a question like that showing you have no clue about the SLT design. You're supposed to know better because you're a pro right? lol

Again, whatever you say will not change the fact that Canon best semi-pro APS-C, the 7D Image quality is inferior to Sony worst and outdated Nex-3.. nyehehehe!!!


----------



## rexbobcat

argieramos said:


> rexbobcat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> argieramos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your opinion. That's a harsh claim coming from someone who don't use an alpha.
> Still doesn't change the fact that Canon best semi-Pro level 7D IQ is inferior to the worst mirrorless camera of Sony.
> Sensor doesn't mean that much? lol. Tell me that you're joking.
> 
> Derrel has a Canon and Nikon, but like his Nikon more.
> *Gary Fong*, a real Pro and inventor of lightsphere has a Canon, Nikon, and Sony. He like his Sony more
> 
> 
> 
> "Canon the new Kodak"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your opinions don't make any sense. The high ISO of the Nex looks really bad. It looks the same as my 60D at 5000 ISO. And the 60D is even worse than the 7D so....yeah....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your claim means nothing if you can't back it up with proven facts. I have been putting my evidence on here  and my evidence show how inferior Canon sensors are
Click to expand...


But you aren't. The ISO doesn't look good on the NEX. Yes, you've put evidence up, but they don't prove your point.


----------



## argieramos

EchoingWhisper said:


> o hey tyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EchoingWhisper said:
> 
> 
> 
> Live view do actually cause a lot of heat that it's effect is able to be seen on pictures.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So does that mean that since SLT cameras are continuously using the sensor to display the image on the EVF will inherently have noisier images? I guess that would explain a few things...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't SLTs have optical viewfinders?
> 
> EDIT: Seems like they don't have any optical viewfinders. Thought that the mirror reflects the light to the optical viewfinder before this, but realised its for the autofocus array. This is kind of a stupid design - you lose the optical viewfinder for a little better autofocus? No way. Heat build up on the sensor due to live view and the loss of light from the mirror are the main cause of noise.
Click to expand...


Sony has a different approach doing their LV compare to Nikon and Canon. It is superior and faster than Canon and Nikon


----------



## argieramos

rexbobcat said:


> argieramos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rexbobcat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your opinions don't make any sense. The high ISO of the Nex looks really bad. It looks the same as my 60D at 5000 ISO. And the 60D is even worse than the 7D so....yeah....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your claim means nothing if you can't back it up with proven facts. I have been putting my evidence on here  and my evidence show how inferior Canon sensors are
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But you aren't. The ISO doesn't look good on the NEX. Yes, you've put evidence up, but they don't prove your point.
Click to expand...


How is that not proving my point? It proves the superiority to the Canon 7D in every category. I shouldn't expect that you will accept that. Like you said before,you're biased against Sony. You even made some false claim like a77 is using Contrast Detection AF. lol

You may not like the ISO performance of the NEX-7, but that doesn't change the fact that it is wayyyy better than any APS-C camera of Canon in the same ISO.


----------



## o hey tyler

EchoingWhisper said:


> o hey tyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EchoingWhisper said:
> 
> 
> 
> Live view do actually cause a lot of heat that it's effect is able to be seen on pictures.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So does that mean that since SLT cameras are continuously using the sensor to display the image on the EVF will inherently have noisier images? I guess that would explain a few things...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't SLTs have optical viewfinders?
> 
> EDIT: Seems like they don't have any optical viewfinders. Thought that the mirror reflects the light to the optical viewfinder before this, but realised its for the autofocus array. This is kind of a stupid design - you lose the optical viewfinder for a little better autofocus? No way. Heat build up on the sensor due to live view and the loss of light from the mirror are the main cause of noise.
Click to expand...


That's the main reason that I was turned off by SLT's. They're not very practical IMHO.


----------



## rexbobcat

I am biased against Sony. Their first DSLRs were pitiful. And I never said that they used contrast-detection AF. I was saying that they had a little annoying sensor right by the eyepiece that would autofocus when you put your eye up to the viewfinder, and it would never lock focus because of this.

The 7D has better processor technology, better autofocus, and better FPS. The NEX is a consumer DSLR that is designed for the on-the-go consumer. 








Canon 60D
24mm
f/8
ISO 6400
Noise Reduction Disabled

These images have the same quality of the NEX at ISO 3200. So I assume that the NEX has pitiful ISO 6400 quality.


----------



## mjhoward

EchoingWhisper said:


> This is kind of a stupid design - you lose the optical viewfinder for a little better autofocus? No way. Heat build up on the sensor due to live view and the loss of light from the mirror are the main cause of noise.



This is exactly what we've been saying this entire time.  And the AF isn't necessarily 'better', it's just able to use the phase detect full time... which is great if you're a videographer, not so much if you're a photographer.


----------



## erotavlas

Drake said:


> EchoingWhisper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mjhoward said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Say what??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Live view makes the camera hot, which increases noise level.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's the theory, but in practice the effect is marginal unless you use your live view for hours non stop.
Click to expand...


Looks like the effect isn't marginal - even after using live view for less than an 1/2 hour

Photo Cornucopia


----------



## argieramos

rexbobcat said:
			
		

> I am biased against Sony. Their first DSLRs were pitiful. And I never said that they used contrast-detection AF. I was saying that they had a little annoying sensor right by the eyepiece that would autofocus when you put your eye up to the viewfinder, and it would never lock focus because of this.



And I told you that feature is turned off by default settings. Did you turn that thing on then forgot how to switch back off? Common sense buddy, something like that can be disabled. Even with the "eye-start", you can always re- focus, but you didn't know how to do that. You couldn't even do lock focus which is a very easy task even for the a100. You didn't know how to operate the camera. 




> Originally Posted by rexbobcat
> Looking at the specs, the A77 will have a hard time focusing in low light if there is not a high-contrast area.



So you didn't say a77 using a contrast-detection AF. haha!
a77 focusing is not based on contrast but rather phase detection.
This will prove you wrong. A77 focus faster than the 7D in low light.
http://www.popphoto.com/gear/2011/09/lab-test-sony-a77-new-king-aps-c-dslrs




> The 7D has better processor technology, better autofocus, and better FPS. The NEX is a consumer DSLR that is designed for the on-the-go consumer.


 
NEX is not a DSLR, just to let you know. As I said before, 7D is overall better camera than the NEX-3. Better ergonomics, control, OVF, etc. But the picture ImageQuality is inferior to the worst,cheapest NEX of Sony.



> Canon 60D
> 24mm
> f/8
> ISO 6400
> Noise Reduction Disabled
> 
> These images have the same quality of the NEX at ISO 3200. So I assume that the NEX has pitiful ISO 6400 quality.



You are only looking at the noise level which I see the difference is not that big. But the picture IQ is inferior to the NEX-3. Here is my evidence 
http://www.resensor.com/2011/07/nex-3-vs-7d-who-will-win/


----------



## argieramos

mjhoward said:
			
		

> This is exactly what we've been saying this entire time.  And the AF isn't necessarily 'better', it's just able to use the phase detect full time... which is great if you're a videographer, not so much if you're a photographer.



If the result is better than Canon camera on the same level, why complain? That's what I have been saying this entire time.


----------



## argieramos

o hey tyler said:
			
		

> That's the main reason that I was turned off by SLT's. They're not very practical IMHO.



Turned off? You actually considered an alpha before? You are not happy with your Canon my friend? lol. I won't blame you. Canon camera takes picture not as good as other brands


----------



## argieramos

Sony Forum:
*Canon trolls*: _Sony cameras are so noisy on high ISO, bad IQ,  bad camera, and slow_

*Me*: _But Canon cameras perform worse  <*show evidence*>_

*Canon trolls*: _(Holy $h!t, he's right. Canon cameras IQ looks crap in comparison) Well, it's not about the sensor, it's about the photographer._

*Me*: _lol lol lol lol lol lol lol_


----------



## argieramos

*First Derrel*:
"*Canon, the 18.2 MP sensor, 17.8 or so effective in the 7D has issues with color depth and dynamic range, and it seems that they need to TOTALLY RE-WORK the electronics*"

Then *Gary Fong*. Real Pro and inventor of lightsphere







Then this guy. http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/nikon-vs-canon.htm
"*I prefer Nikon DSLRs, and Canon Compacts.*"

 No love for *Canon?*


----------



## EchoingWhisper

argieramos said:


> First Derrel:
> "Canon, the 18.2 MP sensor, 17.8 or so effective in the 7D has issues with color depth and dynamic range, and it seems that they need to TOTALLY RE-WORK the electronics"
> 
> Then Gary Fong. Real Pro and inventor of lightsphere
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then this guy. Nikon vs. Canon
> "I prefer Nikon DSLRs, and Canon Compacts."
> 
> No love for Canon?



I do agree with KenRockwell in this statement, but never trust his site, unless you know what is right and what is wrong (then why are you still reading it?), its a joke.


----------



## rexbobcat

argieramos said:


> *First Derrel*:
> "*Canon, the 18.2 MP sensor, 17.8 or so effective in the 7D has issues with color depth and dynamic range, and it seems that they need to TOTALLY RE-WORK the electronics*"
> 
> Then *Gary Fong*. Real Pro and inventor of lightsphere
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then this guy. Nikon vs. Canon
> "*I prefer Nikon DSLRs, and Canon Compacts.*"
> 
> No love for *Canon?*



I'm happy, and there have been photos taken by Canons (and Nikons) on this site that are indeed better than your photos, even though you have the God camera, so as far as I can tell, you can keep taking high detailed pictures of your cats while everyone else gets on with their lives. Agreed?


----------



## argieramos

rexbobcat said:
			
		

> I'm happy, and there have been photos taken by Canons (and Nikons) on this site that are indeed better than your photos, even though you have the God camera, so as far as I can tell, you can keep taking high detailed pictures of your cats while everyone else gets on with their lives. Agreed?



At the same time there are also photos taken by Sony cameras on this site that are indeed better than Canons and Nikons. Take your photo as an example. Looks really bad. Again, photographer makes the difference. But the fact remains that the 7D and your 60D IQ is inferior to NEX-3 

I am not saying your 60D is not a good camera. All I'm saying is that the Image Quality is not as good as the camera that you are bashing. That's all bro.

PS. lock-focus is a very simple task. You should have somebody to teach you how to do that. Very simple


----------



## belial

argieramos said:
			
		

> If the result is better than Canon camera on the same level, why complain? That's what I have been saying this entire time.



Why isn't argue banned yet? Hes just a troll and doesn't add anything.


----------



## belial

argieramos said:
			
		

> Sony has a different approach doing their LV compare to Nikon and Canon. It is superior and faster than Canon and Nikon



It's not superior. It's better for video.


----------



## rexbobcat

argieramos said:


> rexbobcat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm happy, and there have been photos taken by Canons (and Nikons) on this site that are indeed better than your photos, even though you have the God camera, so as far as I can tell, you can keep taking high detailed pictures of your cats while everyone else gets on with their lives. Agreed?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At the same time there are also photos taken by Sony cameras on this site that are indeed better than Canons and Nikons. Take your photo as an example. Looks really bad. Again, photographer makes the difference. But the fact remains that the 7D and your 60D IQ is inferior to NEX-3
> 
> I am not saying your 60D is not a good camera. All I'm saying is that the Image Quality is not as good as the camera that you are bashing. That's all bro.
> 
> PS. lock-focus is a very simple task. You should have somebody to teach you how to do that. Very simple
Click to expand...


Look, quit being an ass.  I took those photos as examples of the high ISO of the 60D. And earlier you said that technology makes the photographer. Or atleast that's what I inferred from your mockery.

And you didn't take any of those photos. I'm almost certain of it. Or atleast, I haven't seen anything spectacular out of you. That's all I'm saying, bro. 

PS: The A100 or whatever the fck the first Sony DSLR was had an AF that was set up horribly. It's not my fault if it's taken Sony like 6-7 years to develop useable SLR technology that has been around for decades. I think I'll stick with Sony for my gaming needs, and leave the photography equipment to the professionals.

That's all, bro.


----------



## bentcountershaft

Argieramos reminds me of the Hemi guy yelling at Ford and Chevy owners.


----------



## cosmonaut

EchoingWhisper said:


> mjhoward said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EchoingWhisper said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is because live view is used, not because of the lousy sensor.
> 
> 
> 
> Say what??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Live view makes the camera hot, which increases noise level.
Click to expand...

 I think I have heard it all now. I have taken cameras out of hot cars in the summer with no extra noise. Your misleading people with something you can't prove nor have any facts to support it. I think a Canon has more noise because it's spelled with two Ns instead of the one in Sony. You should quit showing how smart you are.


----------



## cosmonaut

If you Canon guys really want to impress me impress me with pictures If you are going to talk the talk let me see you walk the walk, or walk off to another forum. Let's see your pictures with no nr added. Put up or shut up.


----------



## Crollo

Argieramos uses Ken Rockwell as a valid source of information. You'd have to be stupid to continue feeding him, so please, *&#8203;just stop.*


----------



## cosmonaut

Post us couple of shots please at 5000iso





rexbobcat said:


> argieramos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> belial said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Has nothing to do with the sensor. Nikons tend to have more advanced metering. Canon just barely caught up in non color blind metering and Sony hasn't gotten there yet btw. Sensor really doesn't mean that much
> 
> 
> 
> Your opinion. That's a harsh claim coming from someone who don't use an alpha.Still doesn't change the fact that Canon best semi-Pro level 7D IQ is inferior to the worst mirrorless camera of Sony. Sensor doesn't mean that much? lol. Tell me that you're joking.Derrel has a Canon and Nikon, but like his Nikon more.*Gary Fong*, a real Pro and inventor of lightsphere has a Canon, Nikon, and Sony. He like his Sony more "Canon the new Kodak"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your opinions don't make any sense. The high ISO of the Nex looks really bad. It looks the same as my 60D at 5000 ISO. And the 60D is even worse than the 7D so....yeah....
Click to expand...


----------



## bentcountershaft

cosmonaut said:


> EchoingWhisper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mjhoward said:
> 
> 
> 
> Say what??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Live view makes the camera hot, which increases noise level.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think I have heard it all now. I have taken cameras out of hot cars in the summer with no extra noise. Your misleading people with something you can't prove nor have any facts to support it. I think a Canon has more noise because it's spelled with two Ns instead of the one in Sony. You should quit showing how smart you are.
Click to expand...


What is it exactly that you are doubting? That sensors can overheat when using live view extensively? I just looked in my manual and it warns against exactly that. There's a warning that flashes on screen when the sensor is starting to get too hot and if you continue using live view the sensor will automatically shut down before it gets damaged. It also says this heat will degrade image quality. Do Sony sensors have some sort of active cooling mechanism that prevents this?


----------



## belial

Crollo said:
			
		

> Argieramos uses Ken Rockwell as a valid source of information. You'd have to be stupid to continue feeding him, so please, &#8203;just stop.



Point taken


----------



## EchoingWhisper

cosmonaut said:


> EchoingWhisper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mjhoward said:
> 
> 
> 
> Say what??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Live view makes the camera hot, which increases noise level.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think I have heard it all now. I have taken cameras out of hot cars in the summer with no extra noise. Your misleading people with something you can't prove nor have any facts to support it. I think a Canon has more noise because it's spelled with two Ns instead of the one in Sony. You should quit showing how smart you are.
Click to expand...


I've never went against Sony in this thread. I've stayed neutral and I'm impressed with their sensor technology. But I am just stating the truth (maybe not a truth, but definitely something written online with supported pictures and facts) that live view makes the camera hot and increases noise level. Of course, you've taken cameras out of hot cars in the summer with no extra noise but have you made a comparison? I don't understand why are you comparing this 'I think a Canon has more noise because it's spelled with two Ns instead of the one in Sony' with this '_Live view makes the camera hot, which increases noise level'_. If you don't believe what I said, you could always Google it. If you could find a source that proves me (or many people on the Internet) wrong, I'd be happy to admit that its my mistake. Also, another reason I'm stating that the noise comes from live view because from DxOMark's tests, the 60D and NEX 7 has similar SNR, so I suspect that the extra noise come from sensor heat. I'm not showing how smart I am.


----------



## jaomul

I have 2 canon dslr cameras. To be honest I recently upgraded one and was close to buying a Pentax. Why? Because I have read DxO comparisons and the sensor is better than the canon cameras. Then I had a re-think and couldn't justify trying to sell all my lenses and accessories etc. I think a lot of people may be like this, one year or two and canon has the best reviewed cameras and a nikon user is tempted to move, next nikon are better and next sony are better. But realistically i think very few get the best out of what they have themselves.I agree totally with a previous poster that it doesn't matter the amount of overkill in your camera.I see great shots on this forum from all types of people with all different types of cameras. 

Initially you pick a brand and unless your very well off or a pro making money you end up sticking (not always, usually). Do sony make good cameras, I think definetely. Is that original ISO 3200 good. Sure it can be faulted but look at the price point of the camera that took it. 3 years ago and what price would have been paid for equipment to do this shot at that ISO. Yet still great shots are posted from canon 350D cameras and d40 nikons from years ago when the sensors were way less sensitive than modern cameras. There is a balance between ability and tech, but ability seems to always come first.
I am at the lower end of ability level, give me a d3 and i still wouldn't do any better, I could nearly bet a talented photographer would wipe the floor with a p+s. I am amused by how heated this form gets. I mean all you guys/girls love photography


----------



## argieramos

belial said:
			
		

> It's not superior. It's better for video.



Sony LV is not superior but just better for video? Do you even know what you are talking about? Dude, do not compare a Canon LV to Sony LV.


----------



## argieramos

rexbobcat said:
			
		

> Look, quit being an ass.  I took those photos as examples of the high ISO of the 60D. And earlier you said that technology makes the photographer. Or atleast that's what I inferred from your mockery.



I wasn't talking about the high ISO performance. I was talking about the overall IQ. You came in to this thread and posted a photo taken with your 60D. The noise wasn't that bad, but the IQ is inferior to the NEX-3. I posted a link showing the comparison. Didn't you see that?



> And you didn't take any of those photos. I'm almost certain of it. Or atleast, I haven't seen anything spectacular out of you. That's all I'm saying, bro.



Go take a photo with a similar theme and subject as mine. Go take a picture of the moon. Let me see if you can do better.



> PS: The A100 or whatever the fck the first Sony DSLR was had an AF that was set up horribly. It's not my fault if it's taken Sony like 6-7 years to develop useable SLR technology that has been around for decades. I think I'll stick with Sony for my gaming needs, and leave the photography equipment to the professionals.
> 
> That's all, bro.



lol. You didn't even know what to do with the "eye-start" and didn't know how to lock-focus. Obviously you didn't know how to use the camera. Don't even consider yourself as a professional if you don't know how to do a simple photography task.


----------



## argieramos

Crollo said:
			
		

> Argieramos uses Ken Rockwell as a valid source of information. You'd have to be stupid to continue feeding him, so please, &#8203;just stop.



You only Commented on the Ken Rockwell thing, but didn't say anything on Derrel and Gary Fong statement. You failed so hard lol.....


----------



## argieramos

bentcountershaft said:
			
		

> What is it exactly that you are doubting? That sensors can overheat when using live view extensively? I just looked in my manual and it warns against exactly that. There's a warning that flashes on screen when the sensor is starting to get too hot and if you continue using live view the sensor will automatically shut down before it gets damaged. It also says this heat will degrade image quality. Do Sony sensors have some sort of active cooling mechanism that prevents this?



If you think Sony's way of doing LV is the same way as Canon and Nikon do theirs, you don't know what you are talking about. Sony is doing a double sensor approach for the LV. It is better and faster.


----------



## argieramos

belial said:
			
		

> Why isn't argue banned yet? Hes just a troll and doesn't add anything.



What did I say that made you think that I am a troll?  You are just saying that because you can't accept the truth that Canon cameras IQ is really inferior to the camera that you Canon trolls are bashing. Sorry bro, that's life 

http://www.resensor.com/2011/07/nex-3-vs-7d-who-will-win/


----------



## argieramos

*Sony Forum:*

*Cosmonaut:* "_ISO3200 shot taken with my NEX-7_"

*Canon Trolls:* "_Too much Noise! Ugly! Bad camera!_" 

*Me:*  "_But the result looks better than the Canon" <*show evidence*>_

*Canon Trolls:*  (WTF! pictures taken with a Canon camera really look like $h!t...Argie is right! I will just trash talk them)  "_*trash talk! *trash talk! *trash talk! *trash talk! *trash talk! *trash talk!_" 

*Belial (Canon Troll):*  "_Argie is a troll. He should be banned._"

*Me:*  "lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol....."

:lmao:


----------



## argieramos

EchoingWhisper said:


> cosmonaut said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EchoingWhisper said:
> 
> 
> 
> Live view makes the camera hot, which increases noise level.
> 
> 
> 
> I think I have heard it all now. I have taken cameras out of hot cars in the summer with no extra noise. Your misleading people with something you can't prove nor have any facts to support it. I think a Canon has more noise because it's spelled with two Ns instead of the one in Sony. You should quit showing how smart you are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've never went against Sony in this thread. I've stayed neutral and I'm impressed with their sensor technology. But I am just stating the truth (maybe not a truth, but definitely something written online with supported pictures and facts) that live view makes the camera hot and increases noise level. Of course, you've taken cameras out of hot cars in the summer with no extra noise but have you made a comparison? I don't understand why are you comparing this 'I think a Canon has more noise because it's spelled with two Ns instead of the one in Sony' with this '_Live view makes the camera hot, which increases noise level'_. If you don't believe what I said, you could always Google it. If you could find a source that proves me (or many people on the Internet) wrong, I'd be happy to admit that its my mistake. Also, another reason I'm stating that the noise comes from live view because *from DxOMark's tests, the 60D and NEX 7 has similar SNR*, so I suspect that the extra noise come from sensor heat. I'm not showing how smart I am.
Click to expand...


Where in DXoMark's test that shows 60D and NEX-7 having similar SNR?


----------



## EchoingWhisper

argieramos said:


> EchoingWhisper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cosmonaut said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think I have heard it all now. I have taken cameras out of hot cars in the summer with no extra noise. Your misleading people with something you can't prove nor have any facts to support it. I think a Canon has more noise because it's spelled with two Ns instead of the one in Sony. You should quit showing how smart you are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've never went against Sony in this thread. I've stayed neutral and I'm impressed with their sensor technology. But I am just stating the truth (maybe not a truth, but definitely something written online with supported pictures and facts) that live view makes the camera hot and increases noise level. Of course, you've taken cameras out of hot cars in the summer with no extra noise but have you made a comparison? I don't understand why are you comparing this 'I think a Canon has more noise because it's spelled with two Ns instead of the one in Sony' with this '_Live view makes the camera hot, which increases noise level'_. If you don't believe what I said, you could always Google it. If you could find a source that proves me (or many people on the Internet) wrong, I'd be happy to admit that its my mistake. Also, another reason I'm stating that the noise comes from live view because *from DxOMark's tests, the 60D and NEX 7 has similar SNR*, so I suspect that the extra noise come from sensor heat. I'm not showing how smart I am.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where in DXoMark's test that shows 60D and NEX-7 having similar SNR?
Click to expand...


36DB at ISO 100. Go to DxOMark.com and put NEX 7 and 60D on comparison on SNR 18% with 'screen' selected. Fair enough?


----------



## cosmonaut

DxOMark - Compare cameras side by side


----------



## EchoingWhisper

cosmonaut said:


> DxOMark - Compare cameras side by side



Smart guy. Comparing a new camera with two old cameras.


----------



## kassad

rexbobcat said:
			
		

> Look, quit being an ass.  I took those photos as examples of the high ISO of the 60D. And earlier you said that technology makes the photographer. Or atleast that's what I inferred from your mockery.
> 
> And you didn't take any of those photos. I'm almost certain of it. Or atleast, I haven't seen anything spectacular out of you. That's all I'm saying, bro.
> 
> PS: The A100 or whatever the fck the first Sony DSLR was had an AF that was set up horribly. It's not my fault if it's taken Sony like 6-7 years to develop useable SLR technology that has been around for decades. I think I'll stick with Sony for my gaming needs, and leave the photography equipment to the professionals.
> 
> That's all, bro.



Do you have a source for you last statement?


----------



## bentcountershaft

argieramos said:


> If you think Sony's way of doing LV is the same way as Canon and Nikon do theirs, you don't know what you are talking about. Sony is doing a double sensor approach for the LV. It is better and faster.



I wasn't talking about Sony specifically, just the use of live view in general on any make.


----------



## belial

argieramos said:
			
		

> What did I say that made you think that I am a troll?  You are just saying that because you can't accept the truth that Canon cameras IQ is really inferior to the camera that you Canon trolls are bashing. Sorry bro, that's life
> 
> http://www.resensor.com/2011/07/nex-3-vs-7d-who-will-win/



You're trashing a camera brand. That makes you a troll.


----------



## kassad

bentcountershaft said:


> argieramos said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you think Sony's way of doing LV is the same way as Canon and Nikon do theirs, you don't know what you are talking about. Sony is doing a double sensor approach for the LV. It is better and faster.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't talking about Sony specifically, just the use of live view in general on any make.
Click to expand...


To be fair it did sound like you were lumping sony's live view in with the live view from other manufactures.  I'm not sure if I would call sony's system better, but it is faster and doesn't have the potential heat issues that can arise with other manufactures.


----------



## kassad

belial said:


> argieramos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What did I say that made you think that I am a troll?  You are just saying that because you can't accept the truth that Canon cameras IQ is really inferior to the camera that you Canon trolls are bashing. Sorry bro, that's life
> 
> NEX 3 vs 7D &#8211; Who will win ? | Resensor - Alex Sierra's Lens and Camera Review
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're trashing a camera brand. That makes you a troll.
Click to expand...


That criteria would make most of the people posting in these "Sony"  threads trolls.       Though, your are right Argi is a troll.


----------



## bentcountershaft

kassad said:


> bentcountershaft said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> argieramos said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you think Sony's way of doing LV is the same way as Canon and Nikon do theirs, you don't know what you are talking about. Sony is doing a double sensor approach for the LV. It is better and faster.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't talking about Sony specifically, just the use of live view in general on any make.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To be fair it did sound like you were lumping sony's live view in with the live view from other manufactures.  I'm not sure if I would call sony's system better, but it is faster and doesn't have the potential heat issues that can arise with other manufactures.
Click to expand...


Looking back I guess I did make that clear as mud.  Sorry.  When I asked about active cooling on the Sony I wasn't trolling or anything though, I'm genuinely curious what they've done to overcome that problem.


----------



## kassad

bentcountershaft said:


> kassad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bentcountershaft said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't talking about Sony specifically, just the use of live view in general on any make.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair it did sound like you were lumping sony's live view in with the live view from other manufactures.  I'm not sure if I would call sony's system better, but it is faster and doesn't have the potential heat issues that can arise with other manufactures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Looking back I guess I did make that clear as mud.  Sorry.  When I asked about active cooling on the Sony I wasn't trolling or anything though, I'm genuinely curious what they've done to overcome that problem.
Click to expand...


No problem.   Sony uses a second mini sensor to handle the live view in  the SLR models (not sure about SLTs)   It allows you to use faster phase  detect autofocus in live view.    The newer models also allow for  contrast detect autofocus in live view.    I'm not sure if that contrast  detect uses the mini sensor or the main sensor.   I have never heard of  heat problems with the sonys other than in some of the models in video  mode.   The flexibilty in live view focusing combined with the tilt-able  display makes for a useful tool.    I don't use it much on my a350 but  when I do I'm glad I have the ability.


----------



## o hey tyler

bentcountershaft said:


> argieramos said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you think Sony's way of doing LV is the same way as Canon and Nikon do theirs, you don't know what you are talking about. Sony is doing a double sensor approach for the LV. It is better and faster.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't talking about Sony specifically, just the use of live view in general on any make.
Click to expand...


That's okay, he's only ever known/lived/breathed Sony and has no knowledge of other manufacturers. You should expect this.


----------



## rexbobcat

kassad said:


> rexbobcat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look, quit being an ass.  I took those photos as examples of the high ISO of the 60D. And earlier you said that technology makes the photographer. Or atleast that's what I inferred from your mockery.
> 
> And you didn't take any of those photos. I'm almost certain of it. Or atleast, I haven't seen anything spectacular out of you. That's all I'm saying, bro.
> 
> PS: The A100 or whatever the fck the first Sony DSLR was had an AF that was set up horribly. It's not my fault if it's taken Sony like 6-7 years to develop useable SLR technology that has been around for decades. I think I'll stick with Sony for my gaming needs, and leave the photography equipment to the professionals.
> 
> That's all, bro.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a source for you last statement?
Click to expand...


*Eye Start AF*
Eye Start AF  isn't anything new to previous Minolta SLR owners but Sony are obviously keen to continue its use. On the A100 Eye Start AF does exactly what it says, when the sensor detects the proximity of your eye to the eyepiece it begins to auto focus and remains in 'continuous' auto focus until the shutter release is half-pressed or you put the camera down. In reality this means that the camera is likely to have an approximate focus on the subject before shutter release.

Sony Alpha DSLR-A100 Review: 1. Introduction: Digital Photography Review

Unfortunately, the model that my last employer had would never stop continuously focusing even if the shutter button was pressed down. It would act like it had locked focus, and then if you moved the camera too much it would "refocus." Maybe it was just a bad copy, or old. Either way, it sucked.

In my opinion, it was just another gimmick that apparently crossed over from the Minolta era (which went over wonderfully as you can tell), which has no other use than to help lazy photogs who can't muster the strength to press the shutter button to AF. But it's w/e to me. I never had to touch that camera again, lol.


----------



## kassad

rexbobcat said:


> kassad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rexbobcat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look, quit being an ass.  I took those photos as examples of the high ISO of the 60D. And earlier you said that technology makes the photographer. Or atleast that's what I inferred from your mockery.
> 
> And you didn't take any of those photos. I'm almost certain of it. Or atleast, I haven't seen anything spectacular out of you. That's all I'm saying, bro.
> 
> PS: The A100 or whatever the fck the first Sony DSLR was had an AF that was set up horribly. It's not my fault if it's taken Sony like 6-7 years to develop useable SLR technology that has been around for decades. I think I'll stick with Sony for my gaming needs, and leave the photography equipment to the professionals.
> 
> That's all, bro.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a source for you last statement?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Eye Start AF*
> Eye Start AF  isn't anything new to previous Minolta SLR owners but Sony are obviously keen to continue its use. On the A100 Eye Start AF does exactly what it says, when the sensor detects the proximity of your eye to the eyepiece it begins to auto focus and remains in 'continuous' auto focus until the shutter release is half-pressed or you put the camera down. In reality this means that the camera is likely to have an approximate focus on the subject before shutter release.
> 
> Sony Alpha DSLR-A100 Review: 1. Introduction: Digital Photography Review
> 
> Unfortunately, the model that my last employer had would never stop continuously focusing even if the shutter button was pressed down. It would act like it had locked focus, and then if you moved the camera too much it would "refocus." Maybe it was just a bad copy, or old. Either way, it sucked.
> 
> In my opinion, it was just another gimmick that apparently crossed over from the Minolta era (which went over wonderfully as you can tell), which has no other use than to help lazy photogs who can't muster the strength to press the shutter button to AF. But it's w/e to me. I never had to touch that camera again, lol.
Click to expand...


Interesting,  I've never had any troubles like your describing with my camera.   Not that I would consider the AF in my a350 stellar but it does do the job.  The a700 and newer cameras seem to have much better AF systems.


----------



## cosmonaut

rexbobcat said:


> kassad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rexbobcat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look, quit being an ass.  I took those photos as examples of the high ISO of the 60D. And earlier you said that technology makes the photographer. Or atleast that's what I inferred from your mockery.
> 
> And you didn't take any of those photos. I'm almost certain of it. Or atleast, I haven't seen anything spectacular out of you. That's all I'm saying, bro.
> 
> PS: The A100 or whatever the fck the first Sony DSLR was had an AF that was set up horribly. It's not my fault if it's taken Sony like 6-7 years to develop useable SLR technology that has been around for decades. I think I'll stick with Sony for my gaming needs, and leave the photography equipment to the professionals.
> 
> That's all, bro.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a source for you last statement?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Eye Start AF*
> Eye Start AF  isn't anything new to previous Minolta SLR owners but Sony are obviously keen to continue its use. On the A100 Eye Start AF does exactly what it says, when the sensor detects the proximity of your eye to the eyepiece it begins to auto focus and remains in 'continuous' auto focus until the shutter release is half-pressed or you put the camera down. In reality this means that the camera is likely to have an approximate focus on the subject before shutter release.
> 
> Sony Alpha DSLR-A100 Review: 1. Introduction: Digital Photography Review
> 
> Unfortunately, the model that my last employer had would never stop continuously focusing even if the shutter button was pressed down. It would act like it had locked focus, and then if you moved the camera too much it would "refocus." Maybe it was just a bad copy, or old. Either way, it sucked.
> 
> In my opinion, it was just another gimmick that apparently crossed over from the Minolta era (which went over wonderfully as you can tell), which has no other use than to help lazy photogs who can't muster the strength to press the shutter button to AF. But it's w/e to me. I never had to touch that camera again, lol.
Click to expand...


 I could say the same for the High end Canon and Nikon shooters that have to have 50+ focusing points and a buffer bigger than any card they can buy with dual CF cards that spray and pray and then come home and have to weed thru 100's of files hoping they got something to work with or HDR shooters that take seven crappy shots and let the computer make them a well exposed one because they can't do it right in the field.. When if they had taken the time to learn how to do things right to start with. Just sayin'


----------



## cosmonaut

Plus, at least Sony and Olympus are smart enough to think outside the box. Olympus invented the mirrorless camera, in body IS, dust removal ect. Now common place in many cameras. Name me one earth shattering new idea Nikon or Canon has came out with recently. You can drive the car or ride in the back. Your choice.


----------



## bentcountershaft

kassad said:


> bentcountershaft said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kassad said:
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair it did sound like you were lumping sony's live view in with the live view from other manufactures. I'm not sure if I would call sony's system better, but it is faster and doesn't have the potential heat issues that can arise with other manufactures.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looking back I guess I did make that clear as mud. Sorry. When I asked about active cooling on the Sony I wasn't trolling or anything though, I'm genuinely curious what they've done to overcome that problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No problem. Sony uses a second mini sensor to handle the live view in the SLR models (not sure about SLTs) It allows you to use faster phase detect autofocus in live view. The newer models also allow for contrast detect autofocus in live view. I'm not sure if that contrast detect uses the mini sensor or the main sensor. I have never heard of heat problems with the sonys other than in some of the models in video mode. The flexibilty in live view focusing combined with the tilt-able display makes for a useful tool. I don't use it much on my a350 but when I do I'm glad I have the ability.
Click to expand...


Ok that makes sense now.


----------



## mjhoward

cosmonaut said:


> Plus, at least Sony and Olympus are smart enough to think outside the box.



The translucent mirror that you are touting as a SONY accomplishment, was first done by Canon... you're welcome.

Pellicle mirror - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## o hey tyler

mjhoward said:


> cosmonaut said:
> 
> 
> 
> Plus, at least Sony and Olympus are smart enough to think outside the box.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The translucent mirror that you are touting as a SONY accomplishment, was first done by Canon... you're welcome.
> 
> Pellicle mirror - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


LOLS!


----------



## cosmonaut

And it took Sony to show them how to make it work, remember the dim VFers? Sony fixed that with a EVF.





mjhoward said:


> cosmonaut said:
> 
> 
> 
> Plus, at least Sony and Olympus are smart enough to think outside the box.
> 
> 
> 
> The translucent mirror that you are touting as a SONY accomplishment, was first done by Canon... you're welcome.Pellicle mirror - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


----------



## o hey tyler

cosmonaut said:


> And it took Sony to show them how to make it work, remember the dim VFers? Sony fixed that with a EVF.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mjhoward said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cosmonaut said:
> 
> 
> 
> Plus, at least Sony and Olympus are smart enough to think outside the box.
> 
> 
> 
> The translucent mirror that you are touting as a SONY accomplishment, was first done by Canon... you're welcome.Pellicle mirror - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


I think "fix" is giving too much credit. They haven't fixed much.


----------



## cosmonaut

Well I have to admit Canon makes good cameras. Their sells alone speaks for itself. But when I was shopping for a new system I really never considered Canon even with their track record. I just dont like following the crowd. Its why i dont have an Iphone.  The SLT camera works fine. There is no mirror slap, the shutter is very quiet, the EVF is awesome and I am old school. Only a 1/3 stop loss. GPS, face recognition. It will pick my daughter out of a crowd of moving ballet dancers on a dim lit stage. Thats an awesome feature. With the EVF what you see in the finder is what your final image will look like. No more chimping.lol If it works, what's not to like? Focus peaking. Sony and Olympus both think out of the box. Canon needs to do something new. They are getting a little stale. The 7D is outdated.


----------



## Crollo

cosmonaut said:


> I just dont like following the crowd.



There isn't much of a point in being different just for the sake of being different if that's what you do, if you see something and it fits your needs, get it. Who the hell cares who it's made by?


----------



## Archer

Quite the thread. Read about half because, well, I just can't turn away from a train wreck. Ran out of steam though so jumped to the end. 

Off topic observation. I frequent another forum often and there is an unwritten rule:  If you can't get your point across (on a contested subject) in three posts then you bow out. Jumping someone's arse is rarely tolerated by the members or the mods. And this from a redneck Texas bowhunting forum. Go figure 

Some folks are approaching 80 posts in this thread 

Carry on


----------



## Archer

And Argue's posts are akin to nails on a chalkboard. Just had to get that off my chest


----------



## argieramos

EchoingWhisper said:


> argieramos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EchoingWhisper said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've never went against Sony in this thread. I've stayed neutral and I'm impressed with their sensor technology. But I am just stating the truth (maybe not a truth, but definitely something written online with supported pictures and facts) that live view makes the camera hot and increases noise level. Of course, you've taken cameras out of hot cars in the summer with no extra noise but have you made a comparison? I don't understand why are you comparing this 'I think a Canon has more noise because it's spelled with two Ns instead of the one in Sony' with this '_Live view makes the camera hot, which increases noise level'_. If you don't believe what I said, you could always Google it. If you could find a source that proves me (or many people on the Internet) wrong, I'd be happy to admit that its my mistake. Also, another reason I'm stating that the noise comes from live view because *from DxOMark's tests, the 60D and NEX 7 has similar SNR*, so I suspect that the extra noise come from sensor heat. I'm not showing how smart I am.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where in DXoMark's test that shows 60D and NEX-7 having similar SNR?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 36DB at ISO 100. Go to DxOMark.com and put NEX 7 and 60D on comparison on SNR 18% with 'screen' selected. Fair enough?
Click to expand...


Post the link on here


----------



## argieramos

EchoingWhisper said:


> cosmonaut said:
> 
> 
> 
> DxOMark - Compare cameras side by side
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Smart guy. Comparing a new camera with two old cameras.
Click to expand...


Well, you did compare the 60D to the Nex-7


----------



## argieramos

bentcountershaft said:


> argieramos said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you think Sony's way of doing LV is the same way as Canon and Nikon do theirs, you don't know what you are talking about. Sony is doing a double sensor approach for the LV. It is better and faster.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't talking about Sony specifically, just the use of live view in general on any make.
Click to expand...


You said Sony, didn't you? Don't bring that LV issue in here because Sony LV doesn't have any kind of issue.


----------



## Crollo

argieramos said:


> EchoingWhisper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> argieramos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where in DXoMark's test that shows 60D and NEX-7 having similar SNR?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 36DB at ISO 100. Go to DxOMark.com and put NEX 7 and 60D on comparison on SNR 18% with 'screen' selected. Fair enough?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Post the link on here
Click to expand...


Do I have to do that for you? Im not a babysitter.lol. You know there is Google search, Yahoo, etc., right? Nyehehehe!!!


----------



## argieramos

Crollo said:


> argieramos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EchoingWhisper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 36DB at ISO 100. Go to DxOMark.com and put NEX 7 and 60D on comparison on SNR 18% with 'screen' selected. Fair enough?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Post the link on here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do I have to do that for you? Im not a babysitter.lol. You know there is Google search, Yahoo, etc., right? Nyehehehe!!!
Click to expand...


So you are *EchoingWhisper* now? You wish Nyehehehehe!!!


----------



## argieramos

belial said:


> argieramos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What did I say that made you think that I am a troll?  You are just saying that because you can't accept the truth that Canon cameras IQ is really inferior to the camera that you Canon trolls are bashing. Sorry bro, that's life
> 
> NEX 3 vs 7D &#8211; Who will win ? | Resensor - Alex Sierra's Lens and Camera Review
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're trashing a camera brand. That makes you a troll.
Click to expand...


Hmmm. Let's see....
*Belial (you):* _"__It's not the number of lenses it's the fact that Sony has many missing areas. Also their lenses are ridiculously priced an there's just no good models"._
_"__Yet most other sites disagree. Let's face it. Slt is a crap tech that'll never go anywhere"_

*Tyler:* _"__Of course you're not dumb as a box of rocks. If you were, you'd own an A77"_

*Derrel:*_ "__I think I'm going to have some vinyl bumper stickers made up, "Sony A77 versus A Real Camera", and sell them for $6 a pop!"_

If you think I'm a troll, okay whatever. . But there are more bigger trolls in here, and you're one of them lol


----------



## argieramos

o hey tyler said:


> bentcountershaft said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> argieramos said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you think Sony's way of doing LV is the same way as Canon and Nikon do theirs, you don't know what you are talking about. Sony is doing a double sensor approach for the LV. It is better and faster.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't talking about Sony specifically, just the use of live view in general on any make.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's okay, he's only ever known/lived/breathed Sony and has no knowledge of other manufacturers. You should expect this.
Click to expand...


Look who's talking. I have a NIkon D3100. You can ask me about it 
I have a knowledge about Canon. Their best APS-C semi-Pro level is inferior to the Sony's worst mirrorless, the Nex-3 in terms of Image Quality.
Here, take a look at this again.
http://www.resensor.com/2011/07/nex-3-vs-7d-who-will-win/
You see what I mean? Why are you bashing a Sony camera if the Canon's best APS-C couldn't even beat the NEX-3. lol


----------



## argieramos

rexbobcat said:


> kassad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rexbobcat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look, quit being an ass.  I took those photos as examples of the high ISO of the 60D. And earlier you said that technology makes the photographer. Or atleast that's what I inferred from your mockery.
> 
> And you didn't take any of those photos. I'm almost certain of it. Or atleast, I haven't seen anything spectacular out of you. That's all I'm saying, bro.
> 
> PS: The A100 or whatever the fck the first Sony DSLR was had an AF that was set up horribly. It's not my fault if it's taken Sony like 6-7 years to develop useable SLR technology that has been around for decades. I think I'll stick with Sony for my gaming needs, and leave the photography equipment to the professionals.
> 
> That's all, bro.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a source for you last statement?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Eye Start AF*
> Eye Start AF  isn't anything new to previous Minolta SLR owners but Sony are obviously keen to continue its use. On the A100 Eye Start AF does exactly what it says, when the sensor detects the proximity of your eye to the eyepiece it begins to auto focus and remains in 'continuous' auto focus until the shutter release is half-pressed or you put the camera down. In reality this means that the camera is likely to have an approximate focus on the subject before shutter release.
> 
> Sony Alpha DSLR-A100 Review: 1. Introduction: Digital Photography Review
> 
> Unfortunately, the model that my last employer had would never stop continuously focusing even if the shutter button was pressed down. It would act like it had locked focus, and then if you moved the camera too much it would "refocus." Maybe it was just a bad copy, or old. Either way, it sucked.
> 
> In my opinion, it was just another gimmick that apparently crossed over from the Minolta era (which went over wonderfully as you can tell), which has no other use than to help lazy photogs who can't muster the strength to press the shutter button to AF. But it's w/e to me. I never had to touch that camera again, lol.
Click to expand...


It wasn't a bad copy. You just didn't know how to use it.The "Eye-Start" will focus to where your focus point is, without the need of pressing and holding the shutter button halfway. Don't post anything if you don't know what you are talking about.


----------



## bentcountershaft

argieramos said:


> bentcountershaft said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> argieramos said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you think Sony's way of doing LV is the same way as Canon and Nikon do theirs, you don't know what you are talking about. Sony is doing a double sensor approach for the LV. It is better and faster.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't talking about Sony specifically, just the use of live view in general on any make.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You said Sony, didn't you? Don't bring that LV issue in here because Sony LV doesn't have any kind of issue.
Click to expand...


I've already addressed this in my response to kassad. I'm not doing it again just because you can't read.


----------



## EchoingWhisper

argieramos said:


> Crollo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> argieramos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Post the link on here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do I have to do that for you? Im not a babysitter.lol. You know there is Google search, Yahoo, etc., right? Nyehehehe!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you are *EchoingWhisper* now? You wish Nyehehehehe!!!
Click to expand...


You couldn't see it via a link. Even if I gave you a link, you'll have to click through it.


----------



## o hey tyler

argieramos said:


> belial said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> argieramos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What did I say that made you think that I am a troll?  You are just saying that because you can't accept the truth that Canon cameras IQ is really inferior to the camera that you Canon trolls are bashing. Sorry bro, that's life
> 
> NEX 3 vs 7D &#8211; Who will win ? | Resensor - Alex Sierra's Lens and Camera Review
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're trashing a camera brand. That makes you a troll.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hmmm. Let's see....
> *Belial (you):* _"__It's not the number of lenses it's the fact that Sony has many missing areas. Also their lenses are ridiculously priced an there's just no good models"._
> _"__Yet most other sites disagree. Let's face it. Slt is a crap tech that'll never go anywhere"_
> 
> *Tyler:* _"__Of course you're not dumb as a box of rocks. If you were, you'd own an A77"_
> 
> *Derrel:*_ "__I think I'm going to have some vinyl bumper stickers made up, "Sony A77 versus A Real Camera", and sell them for $6 a pop!"_
> 
> If you think I'm a troll, okay whatever. . But there are more bigger trolls in here, and you're one of them lol
Click to expand...


List of posts in which Argue has trolled.


----------



## belial

In a troll for bringing up that Sony has a poor lens selection? They have less than half of the lenses canon and Nikon have.


----------



## gsgary

Nex7 still looks **** at iso3200 after 18 pages


----------



## rexbobcat

argieramos said:


> belial said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> argieramos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What did I say that made you think that I am a troll?  You are just saying that because you can't accept the truth that Canon cameras IQ is really inferior to the camera that you Canon trolls are bashing. Sorry bro, that's life
> 
> NEX 3 vs 7D &#8211; Who will win ? | Resensor - Alex Sierra's Lens and Camera Review
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're trashing a camera brand. That makes you a troll.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hmmm. Let's see....
> *Belial (you):* _"__It's not the number of lenses it's the fact that Sony has many missing areas. Also their lenses are ridiculously priced an there's just no good models"._
> _"__Yet most other sites disagree. Let's face it. Slt is a crap tech that'll never go anywhere"_
> 
> *Tyler:* _"__Of course you're not dumb as a box of rocks. If you were, you'd own an A77"_
> 
> *Derrel:*_ "__I think I'm going to have some vinyl bumper stickers made up, "Sony A77 versus A Real Camera", and sell them for $6 a pop!"_
> 
> If you think I'm a troll, okay whatever. . But there are more bigger trolls in here, and you're one of them lol
Click to expand...


There is a difference between being facetious and truly trying to instigate a hostile response.

You know those comments aren't true, as do I, so they weren't trolling. They were using an english convention called sarcasm.

You, however, purposefully try and get people angry.

I do have a question for you, though.

Does it really and truly matter what kind of camera someone has? I mean, the "Afghan Girl" portrait was shot with a Nikon FM2 camera, which is obviously less advanced than the SLT A77. So I don't really understand why it's so important to you to have the biggest technological d*** on the forum....


----------



## rexbobcat

argieramos said:


> rexbobcat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kassad said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a source for you last statement?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Eye Start AF*
> Eye Start AF  isn't anything new to previous Minolta SLR owners but Sony are obviously keen to continue its use. On the A100 Eye Start AF does exactly what it says, when the sensor detects the proximity of your eye to the eyepiece it begins to auto focus and remains in 'continuous' auto focus until the shutter release is half-pressed or you put the camera down. In reality this means that the camera is likely to have an approximate focus on the subject before shutter release.
> 
> Sony Alpha DSLR-A100 Review: 1. Introduction: Digital Photography Review
> 
> Unfortunately, the model that my last employer had would never stop continuously focusing even if the shutter button was pressed down. It would act like it had locked focus, and then if you moved the camera too much it would "refocus." Maybe it was just a bad copy, or old. Either way, it sucked.
> 
> In my opinion, it was just another gimmick that apparently crossed over from the Minolta era (which went over wonderfully as you can tell), which has no other use than to help lazy photogs who can't muster the strength to press the shutter button to AF. But it's w/e to me. I never had to touch that camera again, lol.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It wasn't a bad copy. You just didn't know how to use it.The "Eye-Start" will focus to where your focus point is, without the need of pressing and holding the shutter button halfway. Don't post anything if you don't know what you are talking about.
Click to expand...


It says "until the shutter button is pressed halfway down." I did that and the technology still didn't work. What's the point of having continuous focus all the time? Seems kind of stupid to me.

It did focus to my focus point, but it never stopped focusing....that's my point. Is my English not fluent enough?


----------



## kassad

gsgary said:


> Nex7 still looks **** at iso3200 after 18 pages



What does that have to do with this thread.   Oh wait never mind.


----------



## gsgary

kassad said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nex7 still looks **** at iso3200 after 18 pages
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What does that have to do with this thread.   Oh wait never mind.
Click to expand...


Well if you go to the first post it is a noisy iso 3200 shot


----------



## cosmonaut

I don't really understand what the big issue is? This is a Sony forum. If you don't like Sony please stay out. You really have little business here anyway.


----------



## kassad

gsgary said:


> kassad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nex7 still looks **** at iso3200 after 18 pages
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What does that have to do with this thread.   Oh wait never mind.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well if you go to the first post it is a noisy iso 3200 shot
Click to expand...


I was kidding.  This thread like so many Sony threads lately has completely jumped the tracks.


----------



## argieramos

rexbobcat said:
			
		

> There is a difference between being facetious and truly trying to instigate a hostile response.
> 
> You know those comments aren't true, as do I, so they weren't trolling. They were using an english convention called sarcasm.
> 
> You, however, purposefully try and get people angry.
> 
> I do have a question for you, though.
> 
> Does it really and truly matter what kind of camera someone has? I mean, the "Afghan Girl" portrait was shot with a Nikon FM2 camera, which is obviously less advanced than the SLT A77. So I don't really understand why it's so important to you to have the biggest technological d*** on the forum....



Go bump your head against the wall if you think those are sarcasm. lol

Ok, try to be serious let see what you guys are gonna say. I am not trying to get people angry. I am just stating the fact that there is no single aps-c camera from Canon that can match the NEX-7 in terms of image quality or noise performance. Canon 7D can't even beat the NEX-3, so why you Canon trolls are bashing the NEX-7?

To answer your question, it depends what plans do you have of using it. Better camera helps photographer. Your question is like asking if having a 24-70mm 2.8 really matter if your super-zoom cover more range.


----------



## argieramos

rexbobcat said:
			
		

> It says "until the shutter button is pressed halfway down." I did that and the technology still didn't work. What's the point of having continuous focus all the time? Seems kind of stupid to me.
> 
> It did focus to my focus point, but it never stopped focusing....that's my point. Is my English not fluent enough?



No. But your understanding about the camera is the problem. If the "eye-start" was not working for you, why didn't you turn that off? lol


----------



## argieramos

gsgary said:
			
		

> Nex7 still looks **** at iso3200 after 18 pages



But still look way better than Canon who keep using outdated sensor lol. Even this thread reach out 100+ pages, Canon best aps-c 7D will always be inferior to Sony worst mirrorless, the NEX-3.


----------



## argieramos

cosmonaut said:
			
		

> I don't really understand what the big issue is? This is a Sony forum. If you don't like Sony please stay out. You really have little business here anyway.



They got nothing to talk about in their forum. Their cameras are using an outdated sensors. IQ and noise performance are all bad. lol.  Get the a580 next and post  a 6400 shot in here. That will probably shut them up. lol


----------



## argieramos

EchoingWhisper said:
			
		

> You couldn't see it via a link. Even if I gave you a link, you'll have to click through it.



You didn't give me a clickable link. I click Cosmonaut's and it shows that NEX-7 iso is better than the 60D. Where is the link?


----------



## Nikon_Josh

argieramos said:


> rexbobcat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a difference between being facetious and truly trying to instigate a hostile response.
> 
> You know those comments aren't true, as do I, so they weren't trolling. They were using an english convention called sarcasm.
> 
> You, however, purposefully try and get people angry.
> 
> I do have a question for you, though.
> 
> Does it really and truly matter what kind of camera someone has? I mean, the "Afghan Girl" portrait was shot with a Nikon FM2 camera, which is obviously less advanced than the SLT A77. So I don't really understand why it's so important to you to have the biggest technological d*** on the forum....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Go bump your head against the wall if you think those are sarcasm. lol
> 
> Ok, try to be serious let see what you guys are gonna say. I am not trying to get people angry. I am just stating the fact that there is no single aps-c camera from Canon that can match the NEX-7 in terms of image quality or noise performance. Canon 7D can't even beat the NEX-3, so why you Canon trolls are bashing the NEX-7?
> 
> To answer your question, it depends what plans do you have of using it. Better camera helps photographer. Your question is like asking if having a 24-70mm 2.8 really matter if your super-zoom cover more range.
Click to expand...

 


argieramos said:


> rexbobcat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It says "until the shutter button is pressed halfway down." I did that and the technology still didn't work. What's the point of having continuous focus all the time? Seems kind of stupid to me.
> 
> It did focus to my focus point, but it never stopped focusing....that's my point. Is my English not fluent enough?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No. But your understanding about the camera is the problem. If the "eye-start" was not working for you, why didn't you turn that off? lol
Click to expand...

 


argieramos said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nex7 still looks **** at iso3200 after 18 pages
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But still look way better than Canon who keep using outdated sensor lol. Even this thread reach out 100+ pages, Canon best aps-c 7D will always be inferior to Sony worst mirrorless, the NEX-3.
Click to expand...

 


argieramos said:


> cosmonaut said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't really understand what the big issue is? This is a Sony forum. If you don't like Sony please stay out. You really have little business here anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They got nothing to talk about in their forum. Their cameras are using an outdated sensors. IQ and noise performance are all bad. lol.  Get the a580 next and post  a 6400 shot in here. That will probably shut them up. lol
Click to expand...

 


argieramos said:


> EchoingWhisper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You couldn't see it via a link. Even if I gave you a link, you'll have to click through it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You didn't give me a clickable link. I click Cosmonaut's and it shows that NEX-7 iso is better than the 60D. Where is the link?
Click to expand...


:lmao:  hahahahaaha!


----------



## argieramos

Nikon_Josh said:
			
		

> :lmao:  hahahahaaha!



You copy and paste those and all you can say is lmao, lol, and hahahaha?
Can't you think of anything to fire back? lol


----------



## EchoingWhisper

We're comparing noise performance, not dynamic range, so DxOMark's low-light ISO is not accurate (it calculates SNR and dynamic range at high ISO, so Sony sensors are getting the benefits from its high dynamic range, not its SNR). Couldn't give you a link to it, but here's a screenshot. Here's a link. DxOMark - Compare cameras side by side I think it's flash based or similar, that's why it doesn't change the link.


----------



## argieramos

EchoingWhisper said:


> We're comparing noise performance, not dynamic range, so DxOMark's low-light ISO is not accurate (it calculates SNR and dynamic range at high ISO, so Sony sensors are getting the benefits from its high dynamic range, not its SNR). Couldn't give you a link to it, but here's a screenshot. Here's a link. DxOMark - Compare cameras side by side I think it's flash based or similar, that's why it doesn't change the link.



From that chart I guess they are about even. Imaging Resource ( Imaging Resource "Comparometer"  Digital Camera Image Comparison Page ) lab test shows that the 60D has more noise in high ISO.


----------



## EchoingWhisper

argieramos said:


> EchoingWhisper said:
> 
> 
> 
> We're comparing noise performance, not dynamic range, so DxOMark's low-light ISO is not accurate (it calculates SNR and dynamic range at high ISO, so Sony sensors are getting the benefits from its high dynamic range, not its SNR). Couldn't give you a link to it, but here's a screenshot. Here's a link. DxOMark - Compare cameras side by side I think it's flash based or similar, that's why it doesn't change the link.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From that chart I guess they are about even. Imaging Resource ( Imaging Resource "Comparometer" &#8482; Digital Camera Image Comparison Page ) lab test shows that the 60D has more noise in high ISO.
Click to expand...


DxOMark has the most reliable tests. What can you say?


----------



## Crollo

EchoingWhisper said:


>



EXIF Viewer <3


----------



## EchoingWhisper

Although that the above score shows that they're similar in noise performance, the NEX 7 will have better SNR (1/3 of increment due to 1/3 higher megapixel) if both both were displayed at same size, i.e printed at same size. When comparing noise performance, it is not wise to pixel-peep. Instead, you should display them at the same size. Read this for more clarity - The Real Megapixel Myth


----------



## EchoingWhisper

Crollo said:


> EchoingWhisper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EXIF Viewer <3
Click to expand...


?


----------



## argieramos

EchoingWhisper said:
			
		

> DxOMark has the most reliable tests. What can you say?



DXoMark has the chart, Imaging Resource has the picture result. What can you say?


----------



## EchoingWhisper

argieramos said:


> EchoingWhisper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DxOMark has the most reliable tests. What can you say?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DXoMark has the chart, Imaging Resource has the picture result. What can you say?
Click to expand...


Can you be sure that imaging resources has more consistent tests? No. DxOMark's lab has been visited by many professionals and none have found any of its flaw.

EDIT: And what you're seeing with your eyes isn't the same everyday, so a computer generated chart is likely more accurate.


----------



## skieur

cosmonaut said:


> I don't really understand what the big issue is? This is a Sony forum. If you don't like Sony please stay out. You really have little business here anyway.



Perhaps all the Sony users should start trolling the Nikon forum in rebuttal.:lmao:

skieur


----------



## KmH

argieramos said:


> DXoMark has the chart, Imaging Resource has the picture result. What can you say?


That that is an example of the difference between qualitative (Imaging Resources) and quantitative (DXO Mark) data?


----------



## EchoingWhisper

KmH said:


> argieramos said:
> 
> 
> 
> DXoMark has the chart, Imaging Resource has the picture result. What can you say?
> 
> 
> 
> That that is an example of the difference between qualitative (Imaging Resources) and quantitative (DXO Mark) data?
Click to expand...


I believe more in charts. The computer is better. Humans are full of bias, and your eyes are tricking you all the time, so it's best to leave it to the computer. I might trust the pictures if it were tested by DxOMark, not anyone else, especially DPReview.


----------



## KmH

People write the programs computers run.

Computes are inanimate.


----------



## skieur

EchoingWhisper said:


> KmH said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> argieramos said:
> 
> 
> 
> DXoMark has the chart, Imaging Resource has the picture result. What can you say?
> 
> 
> 
> That that is an example of the difference between qualitative (Imaging Resources) and quantitative (DXO Mark) data?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I believe more in charts. The computer is better. Humans are full of bias, and your eyes are tricking you all the time, so it's best to leave it to the computer. I might trust the pictures if it were tested by DxOMark, not anyone else, especially DPReview.
Click to expand...


If you are a photographer with lots of experience then the bottom line is the image that you see because that is what your customers are looking at, not the numbers or charts. Imaging Resource "Comparometer" &#8482; Digital Camera Image Comparison Page gives you the opportunity to look very closely (double clicking to zoom in) on any part of the sample images which include a variety of print and textured materials in the photo and comparing camera images side by side.  It doesn't take great skill to identify the photo with the best detail and greatest resolution.  (Of course, there are always a few that are dumb and blind......, but they seem to be elsewhere at the moment.)

skieur


----------



## o hey tyler

skieur said:


> (Of course, there are always a few that are dumb and blind......, but they seem to be elsewhere at the moment.)
> 
> skieur



Nope, the dumb & blind actually just posted a link in this thread to: Imaging Resource "Comparometer"  Digital Camera Image Comparison Page

You can see it in the post above mine. 

Oh wait, that's you.

tyleur


----------



## rexbobcat

EchoingWhisper said:


> KmH said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> argieramos said:
> 
> 
> 
> DXoMark has the chart, Imaging Resource has the picture result. What can you say?
> 
> 
> 
> That that is an example of the difference between qualitative (Imaging Resources) and quantitative (DXO Mark) data?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I believe more in charts. The computer is better. Humans are full of bias, and your eyes are tricking you all the time, so it's best to leave it to the computer. I might trust the pictures if it were tested by DxOMark, not anyone else, especially DPReview.
Click to expand...


I trust reality over theory, atleast when it comes to photography.


----------



## belial

cosmonaut said:
			
		

> I don't really understand what the big issue is? This is a Sony forum. If you don't like Sony please stay out. You really have little business here anyway.



Difference is I read the canon and nikon forums all the time and guess what? Not one post trashing any other brands. This seems to only be done by Sony shooters


----------



## EchoingWhisper

I don't know. I just don't trust eyes because everyone's eyes (and brain) are different there interpret them differently.


----------



## EchoingWhisper

Moreover, DxOMark are comparing real ISO, not manufacturer ISO to be fair.


----------



## argieramos

rexbobcat said:
			
		

> I trust reality over theory, atleast when it comes to photography.



Reality or theory, A77 and NEX-7 is just better overall. It's a proven fact....


----------



## argieramos

belial said:
			
		

> Difference is I read the canon and nikon forums all the time and guess what? Not one post trashing any other brands. This seems to only be done by Sony shooters



The difference is, All the trash talking were started by Nikon and Canon trolls..
Start reading from the very start of every thread.. You will trolls name Nikon_Josh, Belial, Tyler, Belial, Nikon_Josh, Tyler.. lol


----------



## kassad

belial said:
			
		

> Difference is I read the canon and nikon forums all the time and guess what? Not one post trashing any other brands. This seems to only be done by Sony shooters



Seriously, ignore argy.    He doesn't even own a camera.  Place that one user on ignore and 90% of the trash talk vanishes.


----------



## argieramos

kassad said:
			
		

> Seriously, ignore argy.    He doesn't even own a camera.  Place that one user on ignore and 90% of the trash talk vanishes.



What makes you think that I don't have a camera? Don't make things up.  You see my post, but you don't see Nikon_Josh and Tylers?... Oh you got no guts to say that to them. chicken! lol
I don't even post here as much as I used to, so why complain about my post? You attacked me many times, but I didn't say anything. Is that your way to grab my attention?


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## KmH

Y'all are done here.


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