# Wanting to leave the States



## Photography by Adri (Jul 10, 2016)

Hi all!

I am currently living in very, very far Northern California. It is a beautiful place that has a lot to offer a nature and wildlife photographer such as myself. However, I am thinking it's about time for me to leave - not just CA, but the U.S. The amount of hatred, violence, and general intolerance here is something I have grown very tired of. Combined with so many bad memories in this place, I have been growing more desperate by the day to live somewhere else - somewhere far away. Maybe I'll return one day, but for now I just want to get out of this country.

I am still in college, working on my general education at the moment. My goal is to one day make a living off of just my photography, but until then I am wanting to pursue natural sciences/photojournalism with my schooling. I'd like to move to another country to finish my schooling, but that's where I'm stuck. I have absolutely no idea where to go.

Where do I start? How do I begin deciding on a place to go? I believe the main barrier here is that I have a dog with a bite record - and I am not leaving her behind. She is my soul-mate and saved my life, she will be with me until the day she dies. I know that makes things 100x more difficult, but it is what it is. Don't let this beautiful face fool you, she isn't always the nicest of dogs.







I'd love to go somewhere in the middle of nowhere. As a nature and wildlife photographer, that is generally the best type of place for me to be. Currently my only languages are English and American Sign Language, and I just started with French. I was thinking Canada might be nice, but again, I really have no idea.

Any kind of advice or suggestions would be very much appreciated, I feel a bit stuck right now.

See my work here:
www.PhotographyByAdri.com


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## Wildcats160 (Jul 10, 2016)

Study abroad for a semester.  Test the waters. Moving to a new country is too big a decision to be made on the emotions of a young person.  Please don't take that as condescending.  It's simply a fact, if you are a typical school age (18-22), you have a lot more maturing and emotional development to do before you settle.  That's simply the effect of life experiences.  If you want to go explore the world, travel.  Just don't shred your US passport because the US doesn't seem ideal through your young eyes.  You never know how it will appear to you with 5 to 10 years of adult life under your belt.


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## crzyfotopeeple (Jul 10, 2016)

Having traveled quite extensively I can say that anywhere you go there are problems. We are all humans and will act accordingly. We are living in one of the safest times in the history of this country, don't be fooled by the constant media attention to the negative in society. 

There are roughly 320 million people in this country with the overwhelmingly majority being basically good people. Most all of us want what is best for ourselves and our families. I truly believe most of the hatred we perceive is based on the huge amount of information and news we have available 24/7. I'm not saying hatred and intolerance doesn't exist I just think it's blown way out of proportion. 

There seems to be a motivation to divide everyone in this country and turn us against each other. Instead, we need to come together and try to change the things we know are wrong. I am not advising against traveling and seeing the world but to do so on the premise that the grass is greener on the other side is a set up to be disappointed. 

I'm not very elegant when it comes to writing and don't always get the point across I'm trying to make so please excuse the bad grammar and punctuation. In any regard best wishes on whatever you decide is best for you. 

BTW. My brother sold everything he owns and moved to a very small mountain town in Colorodo and left the cell phone behind and simplified his life. It worked for him, he now does odd jobs and lives in a yurt. Somedays I really envy him.


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## Dave442 (Jul 11, 2016)

Spent a day up on top of Mount Shasta some years ago with my dad. Seemed like the most isolated spot we could be at in the world at the time, especially as we were living in LA back then. 

What do mean when you say "somewhere far away"; far away from what? Wherever you go you are going to be where you are. Moving outside the country can open you up to greater intolerance than what you may be feeling now, you will be the foreigner. 

Studying outside the US is probably best done at first as an exchange student. Both my siblings did that and then followed up with some years of college outside the US. 

I currently work outside the US and have taken a dog from one country to another, usually a bit of paperwork but not impossible.


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## Dennis Bloodnok (Jul 11, 2016)

Hi, Adri

In your post, you have centred your goal around what you don't want; you're looking to move away from somewhere unsatisfactory. In my past experience, I've never found that to turn out particularly well. I would strongly suggest instead to spend some time thinking about what you DO want, and then figuring out how to work towards it.

As has already been mentioned, most countries have their own flavour of intolerances and prejudices, so basing your next step on negatives (what you don't want, what isn't right etc.) doesn't guarantee your destination will suit you any better. Of course, you could argue with some justification that your original post was precisely to find out more about the potential destinations, but my feeling is that until you focus on what you need from your next step, all our posts will only go part-way to answering your question.

Does that make sense?


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## robbins.photo (Jul 11, 2016)

Ok, so I guess you'll want to avoid some of the places I've lived other than the United States.

I lived in a couple of different African countries, both of which changed governments several times in the few years that I lived there.  Changing governments there is not a matter of some complicated electoral process.  One side slaughters the other until they can take power, then they do - and 6 months to a year later another faction would come along and do the same to the new ruling faction.  The "government" usually had control of the capital city and maybe a few other areas of interest, most other places whoever was in control was based on who had the most firepower.  

It was a real hotbed of tolerance and brotherly love.. well, other than the weekly massacres of folks who had the misfortune of being born into the wrong tribe, etc.  

The middle east is of course another incredibly enlightened place, where grievances that are over 2000 years old were still being fought over and getting people killed on a daily basis.   

In short, after having lived or visited most of the corners of the globe if you want to move someplace where there is no hatred, intolerance or violence about your only option is a deserted island where you will be the only inhabitant.


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## astroNikon (Jul 11, 2016)

stop watching the news so much. It's full of negativity.
Enjoy life around you more.

Otherwise you may want to try Switzerland or the Nordic countries.
Just make sure you get a good job, which probably won't be in photography.

I really enjoyed Italy (but that was a long time ago now) and I was fluent and looked the part too.


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## unpopular (Jul 11, 2016)

Leaving the country on a permanent basis is nearly impossible. Not impossible, but extremely difficult. Unless you have an employer to sponsor you, or you're independently wealthy it's really hard to emigrate anywhere. I don't know about other countries, but I do know in Australia non-citizens are required to buy healthcare insurance, while still contribute to the single-payer system, which makes living in Australia even more expensive than it already is.

My parents failed to get Australian citizenship, despite that my father is a software analyst in a very narrow specialty. With their citizenship going nowhere and living expenses so high, even they ended up coming back to the US after a few years.


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## zombiesniper (Jul 11, 2016)

Being Canadian the one major hurdle after getting some kind of visa is leaving your dog behind. A bite record will almost certainly get a no at the border and even if you did get past that. Your dog is on a very short list to be put down if it ever happens again.

Edit: Oh ya. We have d*@k heads here to. They just apologize after screwing you


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## robbins.photo (Jul 11, 2016)

zombiesniper said:


> Edit: Oh ya. We have d*@k heads here to. They just apologize after screwing you



Sounds like a great advertising slogan though, doesn't it?

"Welcome to Canada.  Where even the d*@k heads are polite."


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## Designer (Jul 11, 2016)

Photography by Adri said:


> I am still in college, ..


How does that not surprise me?  My first thought was; "Don't let the door hit you on the way out."  But then, the owners of this site would like to keep everything positive and friendly, so here's some advice that will actually help you:

Turn off the TV and radio and stop reading "news" papers.  Do that for a year, get a job, pay taxes, talk to real people who also don't watch TV, and you'll start to feel much better.


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## unpopular (Jul 11, 2016)

Designer said:


> Turn off the TV and radio and stop reading "news" papers.  Do that for a year, get a job, pay taxes, talk to real people who also don't watch TV, and you'll start to feel much better.



In other words, bury your head in the sand and drink the koolaid. Apathy is the new American Dream.


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## Dennis Bloodnok (Jul 11, 2016)

Designer said:


> Photography by Adri said:
> 
> 
> > I am still in college, ..
> ...



Designer, I understand the gut reaction, but I'm not convinced Adri should be dismissed so quickly. He is, for instance, quite right that intolerance is rife in many countries, and is actually contemplating putting effort where his mouth is. I disagree with his approach, but am truly thankful that apathy hasn't set in yet. I'd rather a disillusioned college student than someone prepared to sit by and let a problem continue without lifting a finger to help.


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## robbins.photo (Jul 11, 2016)

Dennis Bloodnok said:


> Designer, I understand the gut reaction, but I'm not convinced Adri should be dismissed so quickly. He is, for instance, quite right that intolerance is rife in many countries, and is actually contemplating putting effort where his mouth is. I disagree with his approach, but am truly thankful that apathy hasn't set in yet. I'd rather a disillusioned college student than someone prepared to sit by and let a problem continue without lifting a finger to help.



Well I can't speak for Designer of course, but the assumption here is that the United States is somehow worse than most countries in this regard, when in point of fact it's actually much better than most countries in this regard.

I would also note that leaving the country really doesn't constitute putting in an effort to fix anything, at least not in my view.  I'll leave off the rest as we're getting dangerously close to a political discussion here, which is not only against forum rules but from experience completely pointless.  But I will say that if your concerned about intolerance then become a voice of reason.  Don't jump over the fence and make a run for it hoping the grass is going to be somehow greener over there.  It won't be...


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## jaomul (Jul 11, 2016)

I can't speak for the OP, but will say this. When I was young, the first time I travelled to the US, I was excited but nervous, because probably tv shows the headline stuff and not all good. I have been back in total 5 times and not once did I feel anything other than safe. Between the tv, internet and social media the world can look even scarier than it is, having said that its good to be a little cautious, but don't be under the illusion that any one place has not got problems. Human nature causes problems.

Where I live (a nice spot in ireland) a guy bit another guys ear off in a bar the other night, over an unpaid bet. It was 5 euro. Go figure


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## tirediron (Jul 11, 2016)

Moved to Off-topic as it appears that the thread has evolved into one on emigration rather than photography.


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## vintagesnaps (Jul 11, 2016)

She...

And Canada has hockey... (this coming from a hockey fan of course!)

Adri I can understand feeling like you want to get away, but maybe that's telling you to regroup and figure out what you want to do. I started out planning to major in journalism til I worked at summer camp and loved it so went into education. Good thing, or I probably would've been laid off based on the lack of jobs in local media in my area. You'd need to talk to someone at your current school to find out if that would even be a viable option (as your only major, probably not, at least at the college near me).

I looked at your site and it seems like you'd need to consider your medical condition as well as if you could travel or relocate with your dog. I'd suggest that you use resources available to you now, at the school where you're currently registered or enrolled, even if you're not sure that place fits into your long term plans. See what you can find to help you figure out what direction to go from here.

I think there's an information overload 'out there'. I was thinking that for some of us, we'd read the paper, watch some national news, but there weren't a bazillion websites including less than reputable news sources, or blogs, or social media, etc. which can sometimes provide access to good information we didn't have before but it can also overwhelm with a lot of negativity. (There was an incident locally that got national attention and I was horrified at what I saw posted by people judging a situation they knew little about; they weren't seeing our local news to know the whole story and made comments based on much inaccurate information.) I think it's a matter of figuring out what to follow online that's important to you and how to minimize and manage the rest. And I think rather than try to fix the world, or run away from it, you can do what you can in your own little corner of the world, wherever that may be. 

What I see on your website is your love for dogs, which could possibly lead to doing pet portraits (I know a photographer who does that) or continuing to use your photography for charitable purposes. I also see your love for nature, so maybe a type of work that would involve outdoors would be worth considering (which I know nothing about other than outdoor ed. programs at a camp where I used to work, and a neighbor who works for a local park district).

You didn't ask so much about your photography, but I see ability and potential there. I don't do nature but have done sports and art photography and for me it's always been a sideline. Nice thing about that is I don't depend on that to pay the bills so I can do whatever I want with it! I find it rather freeing. As far as the photos, I'd streamline your site, some sections don't have enough to be a separate section; misc. is the same thing 'everybody' is doing, wine splash in a glass and car taillight trails. What stands out is your capturing light in such a beautiful way. Many of your nature and landscape photos are excellent. The one of the sunlight coming thru dew drops, one that was shot I think in the rain - wonderfully done, and shows you seem to have an eye for photography. I think you know what you're passionate about, I think it's a matter of what to do with it.

I think it can take some time to figure it all out and see where it leads. I did traditional classroom teaching for a few years til I got a job as an early intervention specialist and obviously loved it because I did that for 20+ years! I hope you're able to find what you're looking for.


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## Dennis Bloodnok (Jul 11, 2016)

robbins.photo said:


> Dennis Bloodnok said:
> 
> 
> > Designer, I understand the gut reaction, but I'm not convinced Adri should be dismissed so quickly. He is, for instance, quite right that intolerance is rife in many countries, and is actually contemplating putting effort where his mouth is. I disagree with his approach, but am truly thankful that apathy hasn't set in yet. I'd rather a disillusioned college student than someone prepared to sit by and let a problem continue without lifting a finger to help.
> ...



And there I have to admit you're right. I still hold by my view that apathy is perhaps the worst scenario, but quite agree that changing things you don't like requires both effort and a willingness to stay and get involved.

I also agree with keeping away from the politics. All I'm really interested in is the life lessons, not taking of sides.


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## Designer (Jul 11, 2016)

unpopular said:


> Designer said:
> 
> 
> > Turn off the TV and radio and stop reading "news" papers.  Do that for a year, get a job, pay taxes, talk to real people who also don't watch TV, and you'll start to feel much better.
> ...


I don't know how you would infer my meaning might be anything close to your analysis.  

I could have suggested that he try learning the truth by reading from my reading list, but to avoid overwhelming the kid with doing more than he could handle, I skipped that part.

Getting away from the BS is step one, and it could take anywhere from 6 months to a year to get his brain cleaned out. 

FYI


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## Designer (Jul 11, 2016)

Dennis Bloodnok said:


> .. let a problem continue without lifting a finger to help.


For your information, I do not sit quietly by.  I lift more than a finger.  I've been an activist for over 20 years.  You haven't heard much from me on this because this site does not suffer politics freely.

Here's a quick list of some of the things I have done and continue to do on a regular basis.

Duty at our fair booth for years.  Door to door canvassing.  Hand out pamphlets at the Post Office, malls, other public events.  Man a float in parades.  Volunteer for candidates.  Served as Party delegate for years, being a delegate at county, District and State.  Served on committees.  Showed videos one-a-month for over 2-1/2 years.  Attend regular meetings.  Help sponsor speakers to our city.  Write letters and e-mails to my elected officials.  Write letters to the local newspapers.  Regularly engage new acquaintances in political talk.  (just not on here)

You now stand corrected.

I'm glad we had this little chat.


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## Dennis Bloodnok (Jul 11, 2016)

Designer said:


> Dennis Bloodnok said:
> 
> 
> > .. let a problem continue without lifting a finger to help.
> ...



It's perhaps a fine point, but I was drawing a comparison between Adri actively searching for a path as he is now and Adri as he would be if he became apathetic. I was not intending to paint you as an idle bystander, nor to draw comparisons between Adri and you in that light. I still stand by my assertion that Adri should not lose his discomfort with the intolerance he sees around him, though.



> You now stand corrected.
> 
> I'm glad we had this little chat.



I certainly stand guilty of poor communication, and am sorry if it offended.


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## table1349 (Jul 11, 2016)

Photography by Adri said:


> Hi all!
> 
> I am currently living in very, very far Northern California. It is a beautiful place that has a lot to offer a nature and wildlife photographer such as myself. However, I am thinking it's about time for me to leave - not just CA, but the U.S. The amount of hatred, violence, and general intolerance here is something I have grown very tired of.  ....
> 
> Any kind of advice or suggestions would be very much appreciated, I feel a bit stuck right now.



Frankly you need to get a grip on the real world not just the shallow view you receive watching the news.   You post shows me you have no real understanding of the world beyond the borders of the US.  1,200 people are murdered in the world each day.  Of those 1,2oo only 44 occurred in the United States.  You seem to think that this country has a monopoly on hate, violence and intolerance.   It is the nature of the world as we know it

What are you going to do when you go to the next country and there is a killing, a rape, a bombing?  You can run from the problems you see, or you can be one that strives to be part of the solution.


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## Designer (Jul 11, 2016)

Dennis Bloodnok said:


> I certainly stand guilty of poor communication, and am sorry if it offended.


No offense taken.

My first post was intended to get his mind off all the negativity that spews from the main stream media.  My own experience taught me that it takes at least 6 months to clear one's head.


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## astroNikon (Jul 11, 2016)

Maybe if you go to some place far away, more isolated.
Such as Bear Lake, Nunavut Canada.

Oh wait, never mind,  they have an extremely high violent crime rate.
==> Working together against addictions

I guess you should choose a place  that has no alcohol according to that study.


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## snowbear (Jul 11, 2016)

There are a few unpopulated and minimally populated islands in the Pacific, but then there's that whole climate change & rising sea level thing - might not be a fantastic plan.

Funny - I grew up in during the Viet Nam war, the Civil Rights era, riots in major cities in 1968 (One morning I was watching TV, I saw the National Guard and MPDC running through my Grandparent's back yard looking for a sniper - they lived in Anacostia).  I've lived through times of major drug addiction (cocaine and PCP prevalence), gang wars, Iraq, Iran, cola wars, the Chrysler K car, and *disco*.  Somehow it seems we get through it, no matter how bad it was.


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## EIngerson (Jul 11, 2016)

Sorry to be the downer on the subject, but stop talking about it and go. You're not talking about traveling, you're talking about moving. What could anyone else possibly tell about how to live your life? 

Don't post about it, don't talk about it, just go. If you truly felt that strongly about it I don't think you'd be drawing attention over it.


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## limr (Jul 11, 2016)

I started to write something - having lived overseas, I do have something to say about it - but to be perfectly honest, I'm going to keep it to myself until I know whether or not the OP is still reading.


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## EIngerson (Jul 11, 2016)

limr said:


> I started to write something - having lived overseas, I do have something to say about it - but to be perfectly honest, I'm going to keep it to myself until I know whether or not the OP is still reading.



Smart move. I however, couldn't help myself on this one. LOL


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## DScience (Jul 11, 2016)

Wow, will you marry me?


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## johan65ZA (Jul 12, 2016)

Adri wake up. Hatred and intollerence is in every corner of the world. What you experience in us now isnothing compared to places all over the world where people not just hate but slaughter masses. Africa is definately not for you. Europe is becomming a hot bed. Most Arabian countries is at loggerheads. Isis making it a nightmare..and so we can continue. Frankly i dont know why you so ill informed to think it is any beter in any other place. If it is not war it is poverty. Be carefull, you dont know what you have untill you lost it.


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## astroNikon (Jul 12, 2016)

limr said:


> I started to write something - having lived overseas, I do have something to say about it - but to be perfectly honest, I'm going to keep it to myself until I know whether or not the OP is still reading.


OP hasn't signed on since posting this.  
So hasn't read any replies unless reading as a non-member.


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## limr (Jul 12, 2016)

astroNikon said:


> limr said:
> 
> 
> > I started to write something - having lived overseas, I do have something to say about it - but to be perfectly honest, I'm going to keep it to myself until I know whether or not the OP is still reading.
> ...



Well then I'll keep my "wisdom" to myself


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## robbins.photo (Jul 12, 2016)

limr said:


> Well then I'll keep my "wisdom" to myself



What, the rest of us ninnyhammers are unworthy of such pearls?

Ok, ya.. you're probably right on that account.. lol


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## Gary A. (Jul 12, 2016)

EIngerson said:


> Sorry to be the downer on the subject, but stop talking about it and go. You're not talking about traveling, you're talking about moving. What could anyone else possibly tell about how to live your life?
> 
> Don't post about it, don't talk about it, just go. If you truly felt that strongly about it I don't think you'd be drawing attention over it.


Having lived in many different countries as a working photojournalist ... I could add some constructive input ... but, as the OP hasn't replied I'm sorta in Leo's corner. 

I will add that I do like Eric's response. Yes, go and check out the world for yourself.  You are young, and in general, it is best to make mistakes when you're young, that way you have a longer time for corrective action.  Adventure and travel are not necessarily mistakes ... I just think you are acting out of ignorance.  Moving to a different country because of intolerance is a mistake. San Francisco, New York, Los Angeles are some of the most tolerant cities in the world, in one of the most tolerant countries in the world. 

Yes, parts of California are quite isolated and filled with small minded, intolerant peoples ... so, as Eric says "Go" ... go and taste big cities, small cities, country life, et al, but I strongly suggest you start here in the USA where at least you know the language, the laws and unless you're independently wealthy ... you can find work.  Unless you have the proper papers, you will not find work as an alien in any country, unless you get paid under the table. It is pretty hard to get work papers here in the US, it is nearly impossible to get them in most other countries, unless you have a valuable skill or you can participate in an exchange program. 

Like Eric, I strongly suggest that you go and see for yourself ... just don't ... or try not to ... or at least limit the times, when you act on ignorance.


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## limr (Jul 12, 2016)

robbins.photo said:


> limr said:
> 
> 
> > Well then I'll keep my "wisdom" to myself
> ...



Okay, fine, here ya go, you ninnyhammers 

1) The easiest way to get work overseas is to teach ESL.

2) Don't leave the U.S. expecting to escape anything. Even if you do escape one steaming pile, you'll realize that you're dealing with a different steaming pile. There is crap everywhere. EVERYWHERE. It just takes different forms. There are also good things everywhere, which also take different forms. It's all just a matter of which pile of good you value higher, and which pile of crap you're willing to put up with.

3) If you're going to go, then go with the purpose of *understanding*, not escaping. It's easy to feel fed up with one system when all you really know is that one system. I'm not saying you're going to go away and realize that the U.S. is actually a utopia but you never realized it. What I'm saying is that after you have traveled or lived elsewhere, you gain perspective and are able to better understand the relative strengths and weaknesses of your homeland. Then you can see the entire world as more of an interconnected whole, not just as "Us" vs "Them."

4) If you're going to go, then go. Don't put it off. It will just get harder, if not in terms of logistics then certainly in terms of what you're willing to put up with emotionally, physically, and mentally.


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## astroNikon (Jul 12, 2016)

Quote of the Day


limr said:


> Even if you do escape one steaming pile, you'll realize that you're dealing with a different steaming pile


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## DarkShadow (Jul 12, 2016)

Wildcats160 said:


> Study abroad for a semester.  Test the waters. Moving to a new country is too big a decision to be made on the emotions of a young person.  Please don't take that as condescending.  It's simply a fact, if you are a typical school age (18-22), you have a lot more maturing and emotional development to do before you settle.  That's simply the effect of life experiences.  If you want to go explore the world, travel.  Just don't shred your US passport because the US doesn't seem ideal through your young eyes.  You never know how it will appear to you with 5 to 10 years of adult life under your belt.


Words of wisdom.


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## jcdeboever (Jul 12, 2016)

I have lived many places from military and job change / promotion. People are pretty much the same everywhere I have ever lived or traveled. Some are more laid back, others in a big hurry, some more rude, some more dirty. Austin Texas probably had the nicest people and great music but I felt like I was in an oven all the time. Japan might have been the worst, people there didn't like Marines for some valid reasons. I like the suggestion to study abroad. I also like the suggestion to not watch the news. I don't because it is very disturbing and the media has way too much influence on society.


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## vintagesnaps (Jul 12, 2016)

I think too it would be great while you're young and don't yet have a job and family and commitments to travel and go experience life. But the practical part of it is, how will you afford it? school as an exchange student? a job overseas? That's what I think you'd need to figure out.

I have a reservation about the pre-existing medical condition described on the OP's website - it would I think be necessary to consider if you can get needed medication and treatment in figuring out where to go.

And having thought about it, to me this is a somewhat extreme reaction to current happenings, to want to escape your existing life. I can get why someone might feel that way, but yet, there's a little bell going off in the back of my head... of course not knowing someone, it's hard to know, but maybe going and talking to someone other than us bunch of hosers and ninnies would be a thought.

Find someone somewhere somehow thru that school where you're enrolled to talk to. Any other students at your school ever get any counseling? any campus organization you can go to? any instructors you feel like you could talk to? All I know is this is making me think of when I taught jr. high many years ago... I think talking to somebody can lead to a better outcome than students who try to handle something alone. And if nothing else getting various opinions can't hurt.

It's good I think you posted, and I hope you come back, and I hope you get some help in figuring things out and finding a good direction to go next in life.


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## EIngerson (Jul 12, 2016)

limr said:


> robbins.photo said:
> 
> 
> > limr said:
> ...




FINALLY!!!!!! Ninnyhammer achievement unlocked!!!!!!


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## table1349 (Jul 12, 2016)

But what about the Jobbernowl's?


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## unpopular (Jul 12, 2016)

jcdeboever said:


> I have lived many places from military and job change / promotion. People are pretty much the same everywhere I have ever lived or traveled. Some are more laid back, others in a big hurry, some more rude, some more dirty. Austin Texas probably had the nicest people and great music but I felt like I was in an oven all the time. Japan might have been the worst, people there didn't like Marines for some valid reasons. I like the suggestion to study abroad. I also like the suggestion to not watch the news. I don't because it is very disturbing and the media has way too much influence on society.



I have a friend who teaches in Korea. He hated it. Then he met a girl, got married and seems to not mind Korea nearly as much.

Funny how that is.


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## Photography by Adri (Jul 13, 2016)

Okay, finally had a chance to catch up with this thread. I haven't had a free minute over the last several days, I've either been working or somewhere without internet connection.
Some assumptions seem to have been made about me. First off - I am a woman. Not a guy...Also, many people think I'm running from my problems. I mean, I guess you could say that I'm running from them, but only in the same way that I ran from my abusive father as a young girl. I'm running because it's my only option - the situation I'm in here is not good, and there's nothing I can do to change it. It doesn't have to do with my opinion on people, esp. Americans, it has to do with my current living situation. My growing distaste for the people in this country just adds to it. It's true that people can be the same no matter where you go, however, comparing statistics on America vs. other countries - there are obvious benefits (and sometimes drawbacks) to living in a different country.
I do find it curious that so many people are trying to discourage me from moving. Why should I stay where I am? Why not get out of here & see the world, live my life and be free? I grew up fast, I've seen and experienced things that many people only see in their worst nightmares. I'm ready to get out of here and start over, to build a life that I can actually be happy with. I have nothing connecting me to this place, but I do have a lot pushing me away from it. Traveling instead of actually moving would be an option, but I would want it to be long-term. I don't just want to get away for a couple months. If leaving here ends up being nothing more than a big failure - so be it. I'm not the kind to be dissuaded just because failure is an option.
I know what I want to do with my life, also. I am looking to major in science/photojournalism. I plan to let my photography follow my science career - or vice versa. I'm not 100% set on something, but I have a good idea of the direction I'm going.
One thing's for sure - I'm miserable here, and nobody is going to convince me to stay. I'm just looking for advice on the best ways to get out of here. Those of you saying "just do it, then" don't seem to realize that's exactly what I'm trying to do. But it's obviously not as easy and just packing my bags and leaving, it would be downright stupid to leave without first doing research and figuring out the best way to go about it.


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## zombiesniper (Jul 13, 2016)

Only advice i could give is find out who has done what you wish to do and contact them for the advice you seek.
The best chance for your any plan to work is to learn from the mistakes of those who came before.


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## snowbear (Jul 13, 2016)

Have you tried Google, Yahoo, or Dogpile?  How about travel and relocation forums (I'm sure there is at least one) rather than one dedicated to photography?

Maybe start at the CIA World Factbook for some basic information on countries (like politics, GNP, population, etc.)  If you don't trust a US Government site, then go to the UN web site for a few hours and browse around.  I'm sure your school has accounts for the many research portals available - try some of those geared towards the Social Sciences.

Enjoy.


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## Photography by Adri (Jul 13, 2016)

snowbear said:


> Have you tried Google, Yahoo, or Dogpile?  How about travel and relocation forums (I'm sure there is at least one) rather than one dedicated to photography?
> 
> Maybe start at the CIA World Factbook for some basic information on countries (like politics, GNP, population, etc.)  If you don't trust a US Government site, then go to the UN web site for a few hours and browse around.



Not sure why you feel the need to be sarcastic with your response. I was asking on a photography forum because I want to find a school with good photography courses, a place that might be a good option for a photographer. Because my photography will have a large influence on the place that I choose. And because I am certainly not the only photographer who has done or wanted to do this. So, asking other photographers didn't seem too unreasonable to me. Thanks for the advice, though - I'll look into those.


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## Photography by Adri (Jul 13, 2016)

zombiesniper said:


> Only advice i could give is find out who has done what you wish to do and contact them for the advice you seek.
> The best chance for your any plan to work is to learn from the mistakes of those who came before.



Good idea. I was hoping that someone here who had been in a similar situation would have input!


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## limr (Jul 13, 2016)

Photography by Adri said:


> snowbear said:
> 
> 
> > Have you tried Google, Yahoo, or Dogpile?  How about travel and relocation forums (I'm sure there is at least one) rather than one dedicated to photography?
> ...



He wasn't being sarcastic. He's not like that. He may just have been confused, as your initial post did not make it clear that you were asking about schools with good photography courses. It was much more vague and open-ended. It didn't seem like you were actually asking anything, but just thinking out loud. To wit:



> I am still in college, working on my general education at the moment. My goal is to one day make a living off of just my photography, but until then I am wanting to pursue natural sciences/photojournalism with my schooling. I'd like to move to another country to finish my schooling, but that's where I'm stuck. I have absolutely no idea where to go.



Thus the confusion over why you might be writing down these musings on a photography forum - there was the eventual goal of being a photographer and maybe finishing school in natural sciences/photojournalism, but no specific query other than "_Any kind of advice or suggestions would be very much appreciated, I feel a bit stuck right now._" I am not criticizing your post, but explaining why snowbear may have been confused. 

You said that your main barrier is your dog. I think you're mistaken. Your main barrier is language. If you go to an English-speaking country, this barrier is removed and you can focus on your other goals. If you move to a non-English-speaking country, however, be prepared to work hard on your language skills for a couple of years. And no, I'm not making any judgments on your linguistic skills. You may be a very skilled learner, but you will still need time to get to the level you may need to pursue your goals in science and photojournalism. This is why I suggested that the easiest way to at least get settled and earn some money while improving your language skills is to teach ESL. You can still pursue your other goals in the meantime, but it just might be an easier way to make the transition for the first few years as you get to know the language and the culture.

Still, your dog _is_ a barrier. You may want to consider finishing your school in the U.S. and staying with your dog while she's alive. Moving to another country is a major undertaking and it may be made even more difficult with the dog. Many countries will require a quarantine period, and different cultures feel differently about dogs, which might make it harder to find a place to live with her. And if you can't take her with you, it will make the adjustment more stressful than it needs to be. It's already going to be a stressful enough. Out of curiosity, where are you in your education?

Do your research and make an informed decision to make the landing a bit easier perhaps, but ultimately it's a leap of faith that you're just going to have to take. I don't know about the others, but I was never discouraging you from taking that leap. That would be quite hypocritical of a woman who moved to Istanbul with 2 suitcases and a dictionary when she was 27. I was just trying to give you some things to consider for your research and to ask you to remain open to the idea that this might not be the solution you're looking for. Maybe it will be, but it might also make things harder in ways you hadn't anticipated. This is NOT meant to be pessimistic or discouraging; it is meant to help you manage your expectations so maybe you won't be as disappointed if it doesn't turn out the way you hoped.

Look, I get it. I left. And I don't regret it, not for a second. It's really a life-changing experience. My life is forever divided into the Before and After my time away. I did come back to the U.S. after 5 years because I felt that my opportunities were ultimately more limited, but there are definitely things I miss about living abroad. I'm older now, I have ties that cannot easily be untied, nor do I really want to untie them. But I have not dismissed the idea of leaving again at some point - perhaps if I'm untethered again, or don't have the same kind of restlessness or need for different opportunities that I had when I decided to come back.

So go do what you have to do, but just keep it in perspective. I've met a lot of people who got lost in the constant moving, the ever-searching for a better place. I've also met people who moved a lot but were grounded in a clear sense of themselves. Go, find your place, but keep your head about you.


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## spiralout462 (Jul 13, 2016)

Pacific coast of Costa Rica.  Away from the tourist towns.  That's where you may find me one day.  

I wish you the best.


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## AlanKlein (Jul 13, 2016)

Wherever you go, there you are.


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## gckless (Jul 14, 2016)

I've traveled a bunch around Asia, and I Japan is where I will live eventually. Guess it helps the wife is Okinawan. Thailand was great, and cheap. The Philippines is great too, and they speak a lot of english. It's not all sun and rainbows though, there are problems anywhere.


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## waday (Jul 14, 2016)

AlanKlein said:


> Wherever you go, there you are.


This is a good adage.


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## limr (Jul 14, 2016)

If I ever, as I said, became untethered again and want to leave the U.S. again, my choices are either Canada (preferably Montreal) if I don't want to go too far, or back to Europe. If I go to Europe, my first choice would obviously be to go back to Portugal, but I'm seriously considering one of the Scandinavian countries. So much about their lifestyles and attitudes make me think that they are my spirit people. But the food...yeah, my mind and heart belong in the north, but my stomach belongs to the Mediterranean


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## The_Traveler (Jul 15, 2016)

I lived for 3-4 weeks in a lot of places and for years+ in Europe and Korea. A major difference between you and me is that I already had an education, a career and an income.
I don't know what you are looking for but I can guarantee that any society has some significant drawbacks - socially, culturally or economically and what you see as the ugly, intolerable part of the US may just as ugly someplace else but just not as obvious to our view.
A significant barrier to you moving outside of the country is economic. You can't just relocate anywhere you wish. Every country has visa barriers both for tourists and students - and typically working legally in another country is problematic.
Without education or special skills, you probably won't get a work permit; without a work permit, you'll have to work off the books and that makes you vulnerable to predatory practices and low wages. Countries do not want uneducated, unskilled people siphoning off low wage jobs that would otherwise go to locals.
Going abroad without a degree, without special skills and without an economic safety net should be very, very frightening - and if it isn't, you aren't being realistic.

_(My daughter, an experienced attorney,  lived in the UK for five months in 2005 before she could qualify as a solicitor and could work. My granddaughter went to college in Paris; while she worked as a musician, she also was at the end of an economic lifeline that she had a tight grip on.  I've met lots of young people all over Asia who were coasting on being native English speakers, working for low end wages as teachers and just getting by, not working for any future.)_

Hinging your entire life and career plans on a single move to somewhere magical is a recipe for unhappiness if some portion of a complex plan doesn't work out.
Go and do what you can or must but don't expect unicorns and fairy dust anywhere.


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## Designer (Jul 15, 2016)

Photography by Adri said:


> Not sure why you feel the need to be sarcastic with your response. I was asking on a photography forum because I want to find a school with good photography courses, a place that might be a good option for a photographer. Because my photography will have a large influence on the place that I choose. And because I am certainly not the only photographer who has done or wanted to do this. So, asking other photographers didn't seem too unreasonable to me. Thanks for the advice, though - I'll look into those.


I recommend the South of France.  Many excellent subjects/scenes/landscapes there.


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## bogeyguy (Jul 16, 2016)

Occasionally you'll find greener grass, but look around before you decide. Most times the grass is greener where you are.


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## table1349 (Jul 16, 2016)




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## limr (Jul 17, 2016)

Can we keep the chest-thumping to a minimum, please?


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## pixmedic (Jul 17, 2016)

Come on guys...keep it above the belt.


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## table1349 (Jul 17, 2016)

limr said:


> Can we keep the chest-thumping to a minimum, please?





pixmedic said:


> Come on guys...keep it above the belt.



Umm.. Medic.  I hate to have to point this out, cause I figured you already knew, but the chest, it is above the belt.   


Dear Florida Paramedic peoples,

It has come to my attention that one of you colleagues is a bit confused with human anatomy.  He seems to feel that the chest is below the waist area.  It might be good if you were to schedule him for a refresher course on anatomy before he has to perform CPR.  That way he does not perform chest compression in the manner exemplified by the attached example. 





Your truly,
A concerned citizen.


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## pixmedic (Jul 17, 2016)

gryphonslair99 said:


> limr said:
> 
> 
> > Can we keep the chest-thumping to a minimum, please?
> ...


This is how I do it.


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## vintagesnaps (Jul 17, 2016)

Seems like the real concern is if you are or have been in an abusive situation, it would be better to figure out how to leave the situation and get support (if you're still in it); or if you aren't, but staying where you live isn't what you want to do, it's a matter of figuring out what to do next. I think though that moving away may just prolong dealing with what may have been some traumatic experiences. In the long run it might be better sooner than later to go talk to someone about it, which may not be easy, maybe take somebody along with you, but once you do that might help you get things figured out.

I don't know of course your financial situation, if you're already enrolled for fall classes or not, or if a dorm or off campus housing/apts. is a possibility for at least this fall. Or maybe taking a semester or a year off and getting a job would be an option. Either way it would help to get some advice from the school where you attend or any you're considering about what might be good career options.

I said before I don't know that photography and natural sciences seem to quite go together as a degree, but there may be a way for that to work. Photography school alone doesn't seem like it would lead to a viable career choice, for now anyway, as there doesn't seem to be much in the way of existing photography jobs. It might be possible to get a degree in something in natural sciences if that would lead to a job you'd like, and pick up some photography courses as electives or pursue that evenings/weekends later on (you wouldn't necessarily need a degree to do work in photography).


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## Roba (Jul 17, 2016)

Op if you wish to try out another country go for it.

I took my wife and young family from the UK to New Zealand 10yrs ago.
We were a little bored with the usual humdrum of daily life. So packed everything up, booked one way tickets and of we went. We had never been to NZ before, but had  always talked about doing a gap year type thing before kids.
But that never happened, So thought what the hell lets go, and if we don't like it we can always come back!!
Were in the south island with 1 million other people, so although we still have the humdrum of daily living like work!
We now live in one amazing natural environments, with not a lot of other people getting in the way.

And i managed to get in with flooring as my trade, carpet / vinyl installer. No phds needed.
And don't use your pet / family as an excuse not to go, it just means your really not as keen on doing it as you think you are.


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## table1349 (Jul 17, 2016)

pixmedic said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> > limr said:
> ...


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## robbins.photo (Jul 17, 2016)

limr said:


> Can we keep the chest-thumping to a minimum, please?


Killjoy.  

Sent from my N9518 using Tapatalk


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## acparsons (Jul 24, 2016)

I'm from NorCal, I've been out of the US for over a decade. I know Anderson, I've been there plenty of times. Let me know when you finish your degree, I can help get you to Korea, China, and maybe Japan as a teacher. In Korea, there are some opportunities to pursue with photography.


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## limr (Jul 24, 2016)

robbins.photo said:


> limr said:
> 
> 
> > Can we keep the chest-thumping to a minimum, please?
> ...



Meh, I've been called worse


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