# couple questions



## nrois02 (Jan 19, 2010)

so im getting into medium format and i got color film question one might sound dumb but i was wondering if even with color film can i still print on paper made for b&w and have it come out b&w?

and the second question is where can i purchase paper that is bigger than normal kind you can get at a photo store? im looking for something in the ball park range of 5 feet by 8 feet or something like that? 

sorry for being pretty vague. any help would be appreciated! thanks

_Austin


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## Actor (Jan 19, 2010)

nrois02 said:


> i was wondering if even with color film can i still print on paper made for b&w and have it come out b&w?


Yes and no!  If you simply put a color neg in your enlarger and expose a sheet of B&W paper you'll get a B&W print but the contrast will be just awful.

Kodak used to market a paper called Panalure just for this purpose, but it's been discontinued and I don't know of any substitute from any manufacturer.

If I were to try this I'd use graded paper (not VC) and try to apply the principles of the Zone System to print making.


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## Jay DeFehr (Jan 19, 2010)

If you print with a color head, you can use your filtration to "neutralize" (make it look like B&W) the color neg as much as possible for printing on VC papers, but graded paper is probably a better bet. It seems Foma made a panchro paper? 

Have fun!

Jay


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## Dwig (Jan 19, 2010)

Jay DeFehr said:


> If you print with a color head, you can use your filtration to "neutralize" (make it look like B&W) the color neg as much as possible for printing on VC papers, but graded paper is probably a better bet. It seems Foma made a panchro paper?
> 
> Have fun!
> 
> Jay



It is totally impossible to "neutralize" a color image by adding any color filters, separate or in a color head. You can, to a degree, reduce the orange bias but the image is still a full spectrum image and conventional B&W paper is blind to reds and oranges. 

Any print from a color negative on conventional B&W paper will only contain image data from the negatives blue and green layers, those that were sensitive to red and orange light. The result, at least in most images, is a rather "off" tonal reproduction and usually low contrast.

The special papers that were made for this purpose were modified panchromatic emulsions. They were sensitive to the full visible spectrum, thus couldn't be used with conventional safelights, though a bit less sensitive to orange light than standard pan emulsions to compensate for the orange mask in modern color negs.


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## compur (Jan 19, 2010)

nrois02 said:


> so im getting into medium format and i got color film question one might sound dumb but i was wondering if even with color film can i still print on paper made for b&w and have it come out b&w?
> 
> and the second question is where can i purchase paper that is bigger than normal kind you can get at a photo store? im looking for something in the ball park range of 5 feet by 8 feet or something like that?
> 
> ...



Kodak made a paper just for this purpose called Panalure.  It was 
discontinued about 5 years ago but it does show up on eBay from time to 
time. There's a box of it available right now on eBay (USA) as I write this. 
Note that you can't use your safelight with this paper as it is panchromatic
(sensitive to all colors of light).

Otherwise, color negs can be printed on regular B&W paper but it takes some
tweaking to get acceptable results.  There are discussions about this easily 
found by searching the interweb.

Another solution is to simply scan the negs, convert to B&W and print
via computer printer.

Or, duplicate the negs onto B&W film using a slide duplicator attachment
and appropriate filter.

Or ... learn color darkroom printing and print those negs the way they 
were intended.


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## nrois02 (Jan 20, 2010)

yeah thats also another question is printing color in the darkroom different then b&w?


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## Jay DeFehr (Jan 20, 2010)

Dwig said:


> Jay DeFehr said:
> 
> 
> > If you print with a color head, you can use your filtration to "neutralize" (make it look like B&W) the color neg as much as possible for printing on VC papers, but graded paper is probably a better bet. It seems Foma made a panchro paper?
> ...



Ok, I say "neutralize, as much as possible" and you say "to a degree, reduce the orange bias"; this is semantics. While never duplicating the tonality of a B&W negative, intelligent use of filtration can appreciably improve the printing characteristics of a color negative on VC paper. Results vary widely depending on the image in question, and in the end, only the printer can determine whether a given color neg can be satisfactorily printed on B&W paper. 

Jay


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