# Always the photographer...tales of the lowest bidder..



## pixmedic (Dec 7, 2012)

I will give you a great example of why going with the lowest bidder isn't always a  good idea. a co-worker of mine recently got married and she inquired about  my wife doing the photography. no problem. we sat down with her, went  over the portfolio, talked about the wedding. she liked my wife's work.  everything was looking good. it was less of a traditional wedding, and more of a quick ceremony with a reception, 3-4 hours tops. no engagement photos were planned. 

My wife typically takes pretty good care of my co-workers (and EMS/Fire in general) and since it was so short, she offered to do it for $500, AND do engagement photos a week or two before the wedding. My co-worker was really happy she would do it that cheap, but...(isn't there always?) BUT...she has a friend that has a good camera, and although the friend already told her she wasn't comfortable doing weddings, she would do it anyway. So, we were told that her mom was footing the bill for the wedding, and would be more comfortable in the $200 range if they were going to "pay" and not have her friend do it. 

anyway...my wife politely declined the counteroffer, and the "friend with a camera" shot the wedding. (no engagement pictures) I got to see the results of this today... the friend brought one camera, one lens, and no flash. a lot of the shots were weird candid's of people eating, goofing around, talking...very few "wedding" shots. my wife didn't really get too much into WB and exposure issues because almost every shot was OOF, or at the very least missed focus. heavy vignetting on EVERY picture. (i think on purpose)

the lesson here? I don't know. could we have used an extra $200? yup. would it have been a lot of work for a 3-4 hour event? not really. but at some point you have to stick to your guns on what your time and efforts are worth and not be bullied by the threat of their ability to find someone to do it cheaper. my co-worker found someone cheaper, and got practically ZERO photos that didn't look awful even after whatever weird processing the photographer did. sometimes you really do get what you pay for.  I would almost feel bad for her getting garbage wedding photos, but how can we be expected to compete with free? We don't even try.


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## kathyt (Dec 7, 2012)

You know what, you can only do so much for people and then you just have to sit back and watch it play out. Obviously, photography was not a very important factor in this wedding or they would have saved up for it or given up something else.


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## texkam (Dec 7, 2012)

Too many downsides to being "the cheap guy".


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## Derrel (Dec 7, 2012)

Seems like I've heard an old expression, "You get that which you have traded a medium of exchange for," or something like that. No, that's not it....ummm, lemme see.... "You get what you take, take what you get, and don't complain,"...no, no, no....that was my kid's pre-school snack time motto....oh yeah, I remember: "*The bitter taste of poor quality lingers, long after the sweet taste of low price has been forgotten.*"

I have heard _your story_ about 10 times over the years. Only the names of the participants have been change to protect the innocent.


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## pixmedic (Dec 7, 2012)

Derrel said:


> Seems like I've heard an old expression, "You get that which you have traded a medium of exchange for," or something like that. No, that's not it....ummm, lemme see.... "You get what you take, take what you get, and don't complain,"...no, no, no....that was my kid's pre-school snack time motto....oh yeah, I remember: "*The bitter taste of poor quality lingers, long after the sweet taste of low price has been forgotten.*"
> 
> I have heard _your story_ about 10 times over the years. Only the names of the participants have been change to protect the innocent.



this isn't the first time we have lost a potential job because of price, its happened a few times. my wife doesn't have a problem working with people and their budgets to some extent, but you have to draw the line somewhere.  this IS however, the first time where it has happened and we have been able to actually see the results. maybe the others turned out great. we will never know. this one did not turn out good at all.


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## runnah (Dec 7, 2012)

Try not to think about the fact that every single piece of infrastructure, bridge, and building you utilize was built by the lowest bidder.


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## pixmedic (Dec 7, 2012)

runnah said:


> Try not to think about the fact that every single piece of infrastructure, bridge, and building you utilize was built by the lowest bidder.



at least construction would have to pass inspection. these photos would have failed miserably.


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## runnah (Dec 7, 2012)

pixmedic said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> > Try not to think about the fact that every single piece of infrastructure, bridge, and building you utilize was built by the lowest bidder.
> ...



...and those inspections are out sourced to the lowest bidder.

Sleep tight!


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## ronlane (Dec 7, 2012)

Pixmedic, I'm sure that you do feel bad, but hey, you gave her 50% discount on the price up front, why should you accept a counter offer? You did what you could for them.


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## texkam (Dec 7, 2012)

They budgeted for snapshots. You don't do snapshots.


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## 480sparky (Dec 7, 2012)

I see this every day as an electrician.  "We can hire someone for a third of what you're asking!"

"Fine, I can't compete against laid-off second-year apprentices who have no license or insurance and won't be around six months from now.  Go ahead and hire them"


Honest-to-God, at least twice a month I get a call back from these people, crying in their spilt milk.  "Can you come over and finish this up... I paid the other guy, and he's not even halfway through and won't answer my calls or reply to my emails...................."

Photographers deal with Best-Buy "Pros", electricans deal with Home Depot "Pros".


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## ronlane (Dec 7, 2012)

480sparky is your real name Mike Holmes? :lmao:


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## pixmedic (Dec 7, 2012)

ronlane said:


> Pixmedic, I'm sure that you do feel bad, but hey, you gave her 50% discount on the price up front, why should you accept a counter offer? You did what you could for them.



I feel just a little bad because she is a co-worker, and a good EMT. 
But my wife offered her what we thought was a really good deal, and i wasn't going to ask her to go any lower than she already had. 
I am sorry we couldn't work something out for her. we even offered to let her make payments AFTER the wedding was done.  Im sure most photographers have been the same situation at one point or another. just wanted to share ours.


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## 480sparky (Dec 7, 2012)

ronlane said:


> 480sparky is your real name Mike Holmes? :lmao:



I'm not from Canada.


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## Mully (Dec 7, 2012)

Don't feel bad ....she made the choice and got what she paid for.


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## runnah (Dec 7, 2012)

480sparky said:


> I see this every day as an electrician.  "We can hire someone for a third of what you're asking!"
> 
> "Fine, I can't compete against laid-off second-year apprentices who have no license or insurance and won't be around six months from now.  Go ahead and hire them"
> 
> ...




Not sure what kind of work you do but trust me I have to deal with the same thing. You get subs who bid rock bottom prices only to find they do **** work and then file 50 different change orders to jack the price up to what it would have been if you used the more expensive people in the first place.


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## John27 (Dec 7, 2012)

People just don't understand how the world works.  If it costs more, it's because there is more overhead.  In an industry, more/less everyone makes about the same.  I mean honestly.  There are a few making peanuts, and a few tipping the scales.  BUT, more or less, everyone is making within the same range.  The difference is the amount of overhead they have.  If you pay more for a more experienced professional who also has more overhead, you'll get better stuff, because that overhead exists to better serve YOU!

Of course, we're all speaking to the choir here...  But in various positions I've worked it always amazed me.  Like working retail in a big mom-and-pop hardware store inhigh school, a customer seems something for $20 and says "Puh, you probably only pay $12 for it and are gonna charge me $20!"

Well, yeah.  You could contact the wholesaler, negotiate freight shipping on the back of a tractor trailer, and buy hundreds if not thousands of them to get them at that price.  OR, you could let us do all of that.  And then, we'll put it in our giant multi-million dollar building, on shelves that costs thousands of dollars, with an employee who doesn't work for free to show you where it is!  But people just can't seem to understand the concepts of cost of doing business, overhead, expenses, etc.  OR, the value of using insured services.  I cannot imagine having someone work on my home or my car who is not insured.  First off, they could sue ME if they got hurt, AND, if they screw something up, I have no recourse if they just decide to walk out on me!  If they are insured, all I have to do is contact their agent...  It'll be a pain and I'll never hire them again, but at least I'll eventually be compensated.


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## 480sparky (Dec 7, 2012)

runnah said:


> Not sure what kind of work you do but trust me I have to deal with the same thing.



Ummmmmmmmmmmm.  Electrical.




runnah said:


> You get subs who bid rock bottom prices only to find they do **** work and then file 50 different change orders to jack the price up to what it would have been if you used the more expensive people in the first place.



The vast majority of the wanna-be's don't comprehend 'extras', let alone how to properly bid a job and how to handle (and charge for) extras.  They just think that working equals making money.  Yeah, when you're a 40-hours-a-week waged employee, that works.  But it fails miserably when you're self-employed.  They end up failing to truly make money ("Oh, I gotta pay _taxes_?!?!?!") and end up getting a job at the Pizza Ranch or Grease Monkey.

I see 'up-starts' every week.  90% of 'em are gone inside of 3 months.  The sad part is, they're just like drug dealers.  As soon as one folds up, there's a dozen more willing to take their place in the Great Race-To-The-Bottom.  I call it The Wal-Marting of America.  Cheap is king.  As long as we worship this king, the quality of everything will continue to decline.


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## runnah (Dec 7, 2012)

480sparky said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> > Not sure what kind of work you do but trust me I have to deal with the same thing.
> ...


That is a wide net...panels to 345kv Substation work 

If you can get your class one lineman cert we are hiring


480sparky said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> > You get subs who bid rock bottom prices only to find they do **** work and then file 50 different change orders to jack the price up to what it would have been if you used the more expensive people in the first place.
> ...



Which is why we pre-qualify every sub we even think about letting bid. Which everyone should do before hiring any sort of craft person.


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## John27 (Dec 7, 2012)

> The vast majority of the wanna-be's don't comprehend 'extras', let alone how to properly bid a job and how to handle (and charge for) extras.  They just think that working equals making money.  Yeah, when you're a waged employee, that works.  But it fails miserably when you're self-employed.  They end up failing to truly make money ("Oh, I gotta pay _taxes_?!?!?!") and end up getting a job at the Pizza Ranch or Grease Monkey.
> 
> I see 'up-starts' every week.  90% of 'em are gone inside of 3 months.  The sad part is, they're just like drug dealers.  As soon as one folds up, there's a dozen more willing to take their place in the Great Race-To-The-Bottom.  I call it The Wal-Marting of America.  Cheap is king.  As long as we worship this king, the quality of everything will continue to decline.



Competition is good.  If someone can genuinely find away to accomplish a job with the same quality but spend less money doing it, that's wonderful!  When Henry Ford first utilized the assembly line, he was able to undercut his competitors while still providing a quality product.

BUT... Henry Ford was a businessman who still had overhead and expenses, and still sold his cars for near market prices, just used his savings to be _a little bit cheaper_ to drive his business upwards.  He didn't slash costs by operating illegally (no taxes), and failing to have his basic needs!

I feel ya 100%!  I feel sorry for professionals in the photography field, you know how many of my friends from high school are.. "photographers" now?  Using a point and shoot or a low end DSLR with the kit lens, no knowledge of anything, doing senior portraits for $50?  It works in all industries too.  My wife worked for a Doctor for a month, ONE MONTH.  He opened a brand new practice, hired her as his first employee (office manager).  After a month he closed the practice.  Bam.  Why?  Well, my wife started to give him all this info about taxes he needed to be charging, things he needed to do to start collection from insurance companies, etc. etc.  Beyond that, he finally (after opening the practice and hiring an employee, mind you) hired an attorney who gave him an even bigger list of expenses and things he needed to do.  All the while thinking he was smart renting a small office and charging $30 a visit.

Closed after a month.  He's back to working in the hospital.  I guess he assumed because he was a physician, he would be able to run a business.  Evidently not!  He's a good Doctor, wouldn't hesitate for a moment to let him treat me.  But, just as long as he's a salaried employee of someone else! LOL


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## Awiserbud (Dec 7, 2012)

$200 might be ridiculously cheap for a wedding photographer, however it seems extremely expensive for someone that has one camera, one lens, and no flash. that all suggests the photographer probably wasn't very experienced, probably new to DSLR's, and possibly a friend of the bride or groom, seems to me if this person was a friend and was new to shooting weddings etc then perhaps he/she should have done it for free (that way noone could moan if they turned out poor, and it would have given the photog some experience)
The moment you start charging for your work you have to provide a professional service (which by most peoples deffenition is what determines a pro) so no matter how cheap you set your prices people should still expect correctly exposed and focused shots, lets be honest an out of focus shot is simply not acceptable if someone is payin for your work.


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## 480sparky (Dec 7, 2012)

John27 said:


> Competition is good.  If someone can genuinely find away to accomplish a job with the same quality but spend less money doing it, that's wonderful! ........




I'm not anti-competition.  I'm against the guys who claim to be 'in business' who really have not the first clue about what that means.  As far good ol' Henry, he did far more than _just_ make cars.  He attempted to control every aspect of the car manufacturing business.  He bought up steel mills to make his own steel.  He also bought the mines that dug up the raw materials.  He purchased railroads that were used to transport these materials. Whatever went into making a Ford, Henry wanted 100% control of it.  


Here's a story I like to pass around:

Years ago, Joe Sixpack got a job as a helper for Fly-By-Night  Electric.   He started out working with a journeyman wiring houses for  Cut  Corners Construction.  Joe turned out to be a pretty good  electrician,  learning fast and working hard.  As the years went by, Joe  got pretty  good at wiring houses. Soon, he was running the jobs himself,  and had  his own helper.

      Then recently, Joe got to thinking. "Fly-By-Night charges Cut  Corners  ten grand to wire a house.  I know I get paid about $1500, and  my helper  gets $1000.  I know the material costs around $2500..........  so that  means the boss is making five grand just sitting at the office  endorsing  checks!"

      So Joe decides to strike out on his own.  "Man, this'll be great!   I'll  charge just $7000 to wire the houses, and with only $2500 in  material,  I'll pocket $4500 for each house I do....... Jeez, that's  more than  three times what I was making for 'the man'!"

      So Joe hangs out his shingle. .  He doesn't have any health  insurance,  thinking he'll get that later when things really get  started.  Suddenly,  he realizes he needs to be licensed.  So he takes  the test, and spends  more money for the test and license.  He also  doesn't understand that  driving his own truck costs money, both in gas,  repairs, insurance, etc.

      All fired up, he gets his first job for Cut Corners.  Right from  the  start, Cut Corners wants a current liability insurance certificate.   So  Joe forks out $3000 for insurance.  A few weeks later, he gets a  letter  from the state saying he's not a registered contractor.  So  another $600  is spent.  Oh, yea, the city says they need $1250 for a  permit.

      A few days into the first job, Cut Corners says they need  temporary  power.  Joe didn't figure the cost of a temp pole into the  job, but he  builds one and gets it hooked up.   Joe finds out he needs  more than a  3/8" drill and 4-foot stepladder.  So he goes out and buys  more cords  and a couple ladders.  Every time Joe needs material or  another tool,  he'd drive down to Home Depot and whip out the plastic.   Pretty soon, he  realizes he's a couple days behind schedule.  Why?   He's working alone,  and doesn't have his old helper with him.

      So Joe starts working 12-hours days, and a couple Saturdays as  well.   He skips his daughter's dance recital, and misses his son's  Little  league game.  He comes home dirty, tired and grouchy, which  cause his  family to stay away from him.

      By the time the house is roughed in, his credit card is maxed out  and  Joe needs to borrow money from his parents.  "Just until I get this  job  done, then I'll be rolling in dough" he tells them.  He borrows  even  more money just to buy the material he needs to trim the house.   By this  time, he has alienated his family and taken his credit rating  down  below 400.

      And the sad truth is, by the time job is done, he's been paid only   $7000 and has spent $14000  just to 'be in business'.  So he tells Cut   Corners the next job will be $8500, thinking he can 'make it up' on  the  future work.  But even that 'extra' $1500 'from the next job' won't   cover his $7000 shortfall.  Besides, Cut Corners won't hire him again   because Joe caused them to get behind on their schedule.  And to add   insult to injury, they found someone else to do the job for less.

      Dejected, Joe goes home, only to find a letter from the IRS saying  they  want $3250 for the income tax Joe owes from that job.  The state  also  wants $675 for sales tax.  All the 'profit' Joe thought he was  going to  make went to pay his bills, leaving nothing to pay his parents  back  with.


      And who did Cut Corners hire to wire their next house?  Joe's old helper from Fly-By-Night!


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## runnah (Dec 7, 2012)

Awiserbud said:


> $200 might be ridiculously cheap for a wedding photographer, however it seems extremely expensive for someone that has one camera, one lens, and no flash. that all suggests the photographer probably wasn't very experienced, probably new to DSLR's, and possibly a friend of the bride or groom, seems to me if this person was a friend and was new to shooting weddings etc then perhaps he/she should have done it for free (that way noone could moan if they turned out poor, and it would have given the photog some experience)
> The moment you start charging for your work you have to provide a professional service (which by most peoples deffenition is what determines a pro) so no matter how cheap you set your prices people should still expect correctly exposed and focused shots, lets be honest an out of focus shot is simply not acceptable if someone is payin for your work.




Whats funny/sad is the people overstate their skills so much more these days. When hiring for a position in my department I was sick of getting burned by people with BS resumes so I developed a quiz for hiring a graphic designer. Answer some basic design related questions and create an ad using pre-selected elements and texts.

That little quiz weeded out 75% of the applicants.


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## pixmedic (Dec 7, 2012)

Awiserbud said:


> $200 might be ridiculously cheap for a wedding photographer, however it seems extremely expensive for someone that has one camera, one lens, and no flash. that all suggests the photographer probably wasn't very experienced, probably new to DSLR's, and possibly a friend of the bride or groom, seems to me if this person was a friend and was new to shooting weddings etc then perhaps he/she should have done it for free (that way noone could moan if they turned out poor, and it would have given the photog some experience)
> The moment you start charging for your work you have to provide a professional service (which by most peoples deffenition is what determines a pro) so no matter how cheap you set your prices people should still expect correctly exposed and focused shots, lets be honest an out of focus shot is simply not acceptable if someone is payin for your work.



I guess my posts are really getting too long winded. in the OP, i explained that the photographer was indeed a friend of the brides, and was doing it for free, even though she explained that she wasn't very comfortable doing weddings. the $200 was what the brides mom was willing to pay since they had a friend willing to do it for free.


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## runnah (Dec 7, 2012)

480sparky said:


> Story



Are you "Joe"? Do you need a hug?


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## John27 (Dec 7, 2012)

480sparky said:


> John27 said:
> 
> 
> > Competition is good.  If someone can genuinely find away to accomplish a job with the same quality but spend less money doing it, that's wonderful! ........
> ...



Sorry, I'm with you, I guess I didn't say it clearly.  In other words, I was saying exactly what you were, people THINK they understand how competition works and how some are able to charge less than others but still remain in business, but they really don't.  Competition works when people figure out better ways to do things.  Not when people just charge less and think they can just shirk costs that the others seem to need.

It's kind of like the 'It's not the camera it's the photographer' addage that is used by so many to justify professional photography without the serious equipment investment that is needed.  If that was true, no self-respecting business person who spend tens of thousands of dollars on equipment, if they could simply get away with a rebel, kit lens, and the pop-up flash.  It would be a complete waste of money.  It takes talent, it takes knowledge, AND it takes the right tools for the job.

One of my relatives is a superintendent for a construction company that hires workers who have to provide their own tools.  (I don't know if that's typical or not, don't know anything about the construction field!)  The new guys always come in with the cheap tools, and scoff at the old dogs with their high dollar tools that 'do the exact same thing'.  They figure it out when they bang out a cheap hammer all day long and are sore, and it eventually breaks anyway, and the dumb-ol-dog who spent too much is whacking one-swing to one-nail with a perfectly weighted and balanced hammer, it finally clicks!  But you can't tell anyone that until they experience it...  I'm sure the same is true in the world of professional photography.  You might have taken some GREAT shots with your camera, but what about when you HAVE to take a shot for a client, and the conditions aren't right for your gear?


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## 480sparky (Dec 7, 2012)

runnah said:


> 480sparky said:
> 
> 
> > Story
> ...




Everyone asks me that when I post this.  No, I'm not Joe.  But I've seen hundreds of Joes out there.  They're working at gas stations and pizza joints these days.  MY business is doing just fine.


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## John27 (Dec 7, 2012)

480sparky said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> > 480sparky said:
> ...



Kind of like a joke I heard.  "Yeah so I saw so-and-so who left the company to go start his own and show us how it's done, remember him?"  "Oh yeah, yeah!  What did he say to you?"  "You want fries with that?"


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## Awiserbud (Dec 7, 2012)

pixmedic said:


> I guess my posts are really getting too long winded. in the OP, i explained that the photographer was indeed a friend of the brides, and was doing it for free, even though she explained that she wasn't very comfortable doing weddings. the $200 was what the brides mom was willing to pay since they had a friend willing to do it for free.



Sorry, i should have read your post more carefully, Its been a long day...almost 10pm here


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## 480sparky (Dec 7, 2012)

Another problem is the perceived pay rate.  I just did a hot tub hookup earlier today.  I charged $250 to install the disconnect, and provide/install the wiring between it and the tub.  I did the whole job in about an hour.

Of course, the homeowner thinks I'm paying myself $250 an hour.  They don't realize I had $75 in material, as well as my vehicle expenses (gas, insurance, repairs, etc.), usual business overhead (liability insurance, licensing and CEUs, etc.), tools, travel time, the whole nine yards.  So when all is said and done, I maybe brought home $100 for the afternoon, and that's _before_ the gubbamint takes their cut.

I can charge $250 for an hours work because I've spent the last 23 years learning how to do the work that fast.


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## mjhoward (Dec 7, 2012)

Derrel said:


> "*The bitter taste of poor quality lingers, long after the sweet taste of low price has been forgotten.*"
> 
> I have heard _your story_ about 10 times over the years.



Really??? only 10 times!?


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## runnah (Dec 7, 2012)

I have a raft of home electrical questions that I am dying to ask.


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## jake337 (Dec 7, 2012)

John27 said:


> 480sparky said:
> 
> 
> > John27 said:
> ...



It's still the photographer!

Sorry had to jump in and say that.

Why?  Well there's no point in having all those fantastic tools if you still don't know how to use them!

A good photographer knows which tools to carry for the job at hand before the actual job.


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## John27 (Dec 7, 2012)

jake337 said:


> It's still the photographer!
> 
> Sorry had to jump in and say that.
> 
> ...



Well, I'm sure you can agree that it's both.  (Sorry, I know my posts are a long read), but as I said, it requires both tools AND talent.  And usually, those who justify using a cheap camera to do professional work, have neither.

A long time professional could take pictures with my rebel that'll blow mine out of the water.  But they'll still go back to their tens-of-thousands-of-dollars worth of equipment, because in order to generate professional quality work, they must also have the right tools!

Great gear doesn't make a good photographer either though.  I've seen some pretty crappy pictures come out of some pretty expensive gear!


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## jake337 (Dec 7, 2012)

John27 said:


> jake337 said:
> 
> 
> > It's still the photographer!
> ...




Yes, yes and yes!


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## Tee (Dec 7, 2012)

Pixmedic: I understand you feeling bad but your wife went as low and one can go.  Regarding the friend who didn't feel comfortable doing it, she should have nutted up and said no and the bride has no grounds to be pi$$ed.  After all, the bride got free pictures.  I'm seriously blown away by people who can't suit up and say no.


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## John27 (Dec 7, 2012)

Tee said:


> Pixmedic: I understand you feeling bad but your wife went as low and one can go.  Regarding the friend who didn't feel comfortable doing it, she should have nutted up and said no and the bride has no grounds to be pi$$ed.  After all, the bride got free pictures.  I'm seriously blown away by people who can't suit up and say no.




I really think a lot of people don't understand what goes in to a good picture.  They don't understand how a camera that takes great images outdoors could perform poorly in a low light setting.  They also don't understand the amount of skill and experience it takes to successfully do something like a wedding!  People look at a pose with no technical knowledge and can't understand why it doesn't look as nice as the one done by a photographer.  Even posing is a skill!

My wife and I have been approached by family members and friends wanting to do different stuff, even weddings!  They get upset when you say no.  It's not about being unwilling, it's about being unequipped.  Frankly, I can't give you anything with my set of talents or my equipment!  But in the end, we have done some stuff _for free_ and had some happy people.  Ashley did my little sisters senior portraits, for example.  Mom couldn't afford it and neither could my little sister.  They turned out okay.  Nothing stellar, but they were really impressed.  I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable charging for the results we got though, there were only a couple images that I think belong on a wall, and even then it's perhaps only because of the subject, not because of how good the picture is!


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## kathyt (Dec 7, 2012)

480sparky said:


> I see this every day as an electrician.  "We can hire someone for a third of what you're asking!"
> 
> "Fine, I can't compete against laid-off second-year apprentices who have no license or insurance and won't be around six months from now.  Go ahead and hire them"
> 
> ...



Sparkles, my washing machine just stopped working during a cycle. No power or anything. It is two years old. The breaker is fine. What gives? I am crying in my milk. (a.k.a. wine) Can you come over and finish this up? p.s. I tore it all apart.


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## TheFantasticG (Dec 7, 2012)

My wife had two good friends get married last Saturday. My wife told her to consult me as I know of quite a few wedding Photogs around Houston and could help her pick someone who will be the most awesome inside her budget. Needless to say she was Bridezilla up until a few days before the wedding. I don't know how she found the photog she did but in the contract he wasn't going to shoot the pre-ceremony images. She wanted me to do it -- for free. Did I mention they were getting married on my birthday and because of that I didn't get to spend the first one I've been home for in four years with my wife? Yeah, that happened. Needless to say I went under the knife for some surgery on November 19 and recovery time is 4-6 weeks (which is why I'm not at work right now). I told her I couldn't do it and would not be attending the wedding. Even if I did go And had no surgery I still wouldn't have done it. She ended up having to pay a few more hundreds of dollars to get the photog to cover her getting ready to walk the isle.

The photog had some nice images of the venue and a few nice candids. Did off camera flash for the portraits but the flash wasn't diffused enough and composition was lacking. Still, overall not terrible images just not stunning or awesome. Just good. I made the wife ask how much she paid but she refused to tell. So, not sure if she got her money's worth or not.




			
				480sparky said:
			
		

> Another problem is the perceived pay rate.  I just did a hot tub hookup earlier today.  I charged $250 to install the disconnect, and provide/install the wiring between it and the tub.  I did the whole job in about an hour.
> 
> Of course, the homeowner thinks I'm paying myself $250 an hour.  They don't realize I had $75 in material, as well as my vehicle expenses (gas, insurance, repairs, etc.), usual business overhead (liability insurance, licensing and CEUs, etc.), tools, travel time, the whole nine yards.  So when all is said and done, I maybe brought home $100 for the afternoon, and that's before the gubbamint takes their cut.
> 
> I can charge $250 for an hours work because I've spent the last 23 years learning how to do the work that fast.



And that's why I'm an electrician off shore in the oil field. I don't want to deal with all that mess you just outlined. Granted, I've only been doing this type of work since 2005 and I've only worked in the industrial and marine environments, but still. No thanks. I turn down lots of friends who want me to do electrical work for them as I have to remind them that I do NOT dabble in electrical out side of my job. When I am home it is time to rest


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## John27 (Dec 8, 2012)

You know this all reminds me of my very first job.  Ya know I used to own my own company!  When I was 9 years old I started cutting the neighbors grass (little old lady), paid me $15 a week to come cut the grass.  Figured, hey!  This is a way to make some money, so I started knocking on doors and found a few clients.  Called myself the 'lawn barber'.  Worked great!  I was rolling in the dough.  My dad was a graphics designer and he even made me up some business cards!  

One day I was cutting a guys grass, for $20, and I saw a big ol' Ford truck pulling a tandem axle trailer with a zero turn mower and some weed-eaters mounted on it pull in front of the next house over.  Side of the truck said "$99 lawn cutting special".  I thought, WOW!  That guy is making a hundred bucks to cut grass!  I'm happy to make $20!

Of course, it was my dads lawn mower, and my mom put the gas in it.. and I didn't pay any taxes, and you had to be within walking distance because I didn't have a truck, you know, 'cuz 9 years olds aren't supposed to drive.  Heh, growin' up puts things into perspective.  Back then I just thought they had the coolest job in the world and had to be the richest guys on the planet!


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## Awiserbud (Dec 8, 2012)

even by todays standards $99 for mowing the lawn isn't a bad way to earn a living, 10 of those a week and your laughing even once you've covered your overheads.


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## skieur (Dec 8, 2012)

runnah said:


> I have a raft of home electrical questions that I am dying to ask.



I can tell you what NOT to do.  Don't screw a light fixture into one of the main house electrical cables when it is live.   That was an interesting experience for me.

skieur


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