# Mentorships with (Wedding) Photographers



## Revan46 (Jul 30, 2013)

The reason for my topic is sort of straight forward. I've gotten involved with photography as a part of my journalism program and it sort of evolved from just photojournalism to an enjoyment with everything else that comes with photography. One thing I found myself thoroughly enjoying is wedding photography, as with my love of everything else wedding (took a wedding planning course two years ago and got 99% on it) but I've hit a snag. As many know, weddings can be one of the most difficult type of photography and given I don't want to risk ruining someone's memories of their big day, I haven't advertised myself as a wedding photog. 

However, I've been e-mailing several wedding photographers in my area (an area of about 250,000 people) and while a few bites (3) have asked me to get in touch in the fall (when I return to school) many have never responded. One of my friends who is involved with portrait and landscape photography said it could be that since my area is heavy with competition because it is a smaller city, they're likely not going to want to train someone, let them second-shoot or even just mentor them without pay (the option I've been asking for) because they don't want someone eventually becoming competition nor stealing clients. 

As such I'm wondering if people have any advice of how to get training on being a wedding photographer. I've noted on here some people suggest given amateur status you should do stuff for free which I'm not opposed too, however it's my understanding many professionals feel that those who do things like weddings for free are ruining the business because without pay the photog has no real commitment to the couple to deliver quality shots or even show up. (No offense to anyone on here who does go free, from what I've seen you are not these type of people but I've heard of many in my area). So like I said, is there any suggestions you'd have? I'm currently reading books on wedding photography like posing, what goes into it, the details for the normal day as a wedding photog, etc. I've gotten into going out and shooting but finding models in this city is also rather difficult because my friends apparently are camera shy. 

So yes, as I said any help would be much appreciated and sorry if any of this is confusing.


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## tirediron (Jul 31, 2013)

Stop e-mailing and start pounding shoe leather!!!  It's dead easy to ignore an e-mail, it's a lot less easy to ignore a well-dressed individual with a portfolio of good-quality images.  Are you planning on remaining in the area when your schooling's complete?  If not, let them know, that may well help ease their minds about the competition aspect of things.


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## pixmedic (Jul 31, 2013)

It can be very difficult to find wedding photographers that are willing to take "interns" but not impossible. you just have to keep trying until you find a photographer that wants to deal with a mentoring type situation. its not easy, especially during something like a wedding where a lot is going on.


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## Big Mike (Jul 31, 2013)

Welcome to the forum eh!

Keep looking and as mentioned, you might try more than just an E-mail.  Try not to come off as pushy or desperate though. 

Yes, part of the issue is that some photographers don't want to train their competition, but I think that shows a lack of confidence on their part.  If they are worried about competition, they should improve their own skills & marketing, rather than holding others back.  
Part of the issue is that some photographers get bombarded with requests like that.  A friend of mine (an outstanding, long time professional photographer) says that he even gets e-mails from people overseas saying that they want to move here and shoot with him until they get established. :scratch:  

My advice would be to check out PPOC (Professional Photographers of Canada).  They may be able to set you up with someone who is willing to mentor you.  

And of course, the key is networking.  Get out there and meet other photographers.  If you don't have a local branch of PPOC, look for other camera clubs or groups.  The more people/photographers that you meet, the more likely you are to find a gig.

I got lucky.  I was shooting a wedding and was thus unable to accompany my wife to her friend's wedding.  As a single guest, she was seated at the same table with the photographer for that wedding.  They got to talking and pretty soon I was second shooting with that photographer and her partner.  A few years later they started a photography school and I was the first instructor they hired.  
Turns out, I had met the photographer before, we sat next to each other during a photography night class, a few years earlier.  

That brings up another option.  Look into more photography classes and seminars.  I've attended many, and while I sometimes know most of the material already, it's well worth the time to meet the instructors and other students.

And lastly, you're on the right track by joining a forum.  I've met a few photographers from forums and there are many who I consider friends, who I've only 'met' on-line.  You can likely find other photographers from your area, and that can be your connection for further networking.  

So what part of Canada are you from?


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## amolitor (Jul 31, 2013)

Wedding photographers are all crazy people. Why do you want to be mentored by a crazy person?


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## pixmedic (Jul 31, 2013)

amolitor said:


> Wedding photographers are all crazy people. Why do you want to be mentored by a crazy person?



agreed. 
Bat. Poo. Crazy


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## Revan46 (Jul 31, 2013)

Lol amolitor, I suppose I'm a bit crazy myself that's why  Plus I just love weddings and what goes into them. I'm not even as much about just going to a wedding to watch, I like the behind the scenes (hence my taking the wedding planning course). 

Mike, I see your point and I did consider calling photogs. I live in Southwestern Ontario, specifically Windsor. Didn't realize it wasn't in my profile. It's about 250,000 people but that's combining Windsor with surrounding towns like Amherstberg, Kingsville, etc

I was on another forum and two things a member had to say was 1. my e-mails were coming across and giving the photographer NOTHING about what they get out of mentoring me, only what I would get. (Perhaps the Gen Y entitlement aspect which I hate that my e-mails came off like that  ). As for workshops and such, I'd love to take them however I'll admit I haven't got tons of money to afford that given I've still got second year of school plus a possible Master's degree. I suppose I could mention I plan on moving from Windsor after second year though how would one even say that in an e-mail or phone call? lol cause you don't want to bring up me as competition or anything like that cause then you'd just insult them. As for workshops by a photo type place, Henry's camera store is in Windsor and they host workshops but I'll admit it's possible I'm thinking I'm past beginner when I might not. That's all they offer at the moment, just like helping those who are buying cameras, those who have started but from the description I feel like I'd just be learning what I know (aperture, ISO, WB, etc).


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## pixmedic (Jul 31, 2013)

your emails came across as not indicating what a photographer gets from mentoring you? Is it such a world now that noone does anything strictly for the satisfaction of helping someone with a common interest? Maybe all the teachers should stop teaching so their students don't learn too much and take their jobs. 
It always amazes me the amount of bitching photographers do about newbies that turn "pro", yet do nothing to help when a "newbie" is clearly willing to put in the effort to learn. 

Just in case you feel that there isnt a single person willing to help out a fellow photographer, I will direct you to a recent (and very successful) project of ours (me and the wife) and its aftermath. 
I will concede however, that I can absolutely see how bringing an unknown person to a wedding shoot with the intentions of them learning from you can be difficult. We enjoyed the experience though. 

this was my initial post looking for an interested photographer. 
http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/general-shop-talk/334325-want-second-shoot-wedding.html

aaaaaand, this is how it went. (very well indeed)
http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/just-fun/334649-wedding-tpf-member.html

for outside help, this forum is full of talented photographers, and most are more than willing to explain and show examples of how different techniques are done. as well as a large range of built in product testers eager to give reviews of things they have used.


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## Revan46 (Jul 31, 2013)

This was the type of e-mail I sent just so you can get an idea pixmedic:
My name is <my name> and I'm a journalist here in Windsor. As part of my program in journalism we learned photojournalism and through several different stories, I developed a real love of photography. From portrait and landscape photography and especially wedding photography, I've come to love all aspects of photography. I was also named Photojournalist of the Year by the program.


The reason I am contacting you is I want to learn more about photography composition and what goes into photo shoots. Wedding photography is something I've really taken an interest with after shooting a wedding show in January and while the show is obviously different, I really want to learn what it's like to shoot weddings and other photo shoots. I've done two shoots in the past couple months with friends and shot both the Run for Rocky and LifeWalk for Hospice events, but I still have a lot to learn. 


I've seen the photographs you've taken from weddings, engagement shoots, etc and feel I could learn a lot if you would give me the opportunity to tag along on some weddings and other shoots. I realize you may have assistants already, so even if it's not the case of being able to second-shoot, being able to learn how you compose shots, etc. I would really appreciate the chance to learn.


I currently have a Canon Rebel T3 and four lenses, a wide-angle 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6, a 75-300mm telephoto lens f/4-5.6, a portrait 40mm f/2.8 and a 50mm standard f/1.8 lens and a universal flash. 


Let me know your thoughts and I hope to hear from you,



As for the second-shoot aspect of your message, very cool  Looks like you guys had fun


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## Overread (Jul 31, 2013)

I think the problem is that you're not really selling yourself too strongly and the letter is too generalist with reference to the person you're contacting. You can indeed send that email to anyone, but it just feels generic. The words to describe their skills are so general that they won't feel like you're personally contacting them and rather that you're just sending out 10001 of these to anyone with a photography website. 

Yes there are many to send, but the market is niche and small enough that you really should be tailoring each email to the person your sending it to. If you can't be there in person then at least be personal with your communications. Also consider that a few A4 prints combined with a strong and personal cover letter could also do well - also note you didn't mention anything about a link to your photography in the email .


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## Revan46 (Jul 31, 2013)

I don't really know why I missed my website. I realized after sending I missed adding my website but it was too late, sending a second e-mail would be just foolish cause if they haven't responded to the first, why would they respond to the second even if it does give my portfolio. I haven't exhausted all the photogs in this area, but given the lenses I have and such...I'm not even sure if I have the equipment to second shoot. As far as I know, none of the lenses I have are even prime lenses and except for my 50 and 40mms, the slowest aperture I have is my 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 and the 75-300 f/4-5.6 is likely too soft to create good shots in low light...


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## Overread (Jul 31, 2013)

I'd leave the equipment list off - chances are they have their own gear and if they want a second shooter a pro will have spares to ensure that they have a backup or that anyone who works for them has insured company equipment of a suitable standard to use.


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## Revan46 (Jul 31, 2013)

Ok. Good to know. Makes sense too, given I've only just started out my equipment isn't insured at the moment.


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## tirediron (Jul 31, 2013)

Find a local camera club - they usually have access to great workshops which, if not free, are usually offered at substantially reduced rates over those offered to the general public.  You're also MUCH more likely to find mentors there, and while it may not get you in the business, it will get you skills, and many of the old, retired pros who often join camera clubs know people who know people...


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## Big Mike (Jul 31, 2013)

I agree about leaving your gear out of the E-mail.  It's probably adequate for an assistant or second shooter, but it's not really pro wedding gear.  Discussing gear is something that should be done, once you have established contact...hopefully at a face to face meeting.  

I also noticed that you didn't link to a website or even a portfolio.  That is certainly important.  On that topic, I'd suggest that less is more.  Don't send them to a gallery with 100+ photos.  They will likely glance at a few of them and be done with it.  Instead, have a portfolio of only your strongest images.  I'd suggest 20 or less.  Include images that show that you understand and can control things like tricky metering situations, DOF etc.  
We tend to judge ourselves by our best work, but others may judge us by the collective work that they see (or by the worst that they see)...so by only showing the best of your best, someone would likely have a higher opinion of your (your photography).


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## tirediron (Jul 31, 2013)

If I were to do what you're doing, my letter would look something like this (a quick and dirty, it needs polish & refinement, but you can see where it's going):

_Dear <Photographer's name>: I recently graduated from the <Institution's name> journalism program, and while there, discoverd a passion for photography, and in particular a love of wedding and portrait work. I want to develop my skills in this area, but understanding the inherent difficulties and the fact that one must be able to get it right the first time, I do not simply want to jump in as yet another 'Craig's List photographer to the detriment of the industry. To to that end, I am seeking an intern/second-shooter, paid/un-paid position in the industy as a way gain experience and would especially appreciate the opportunity to work with you._
_
I've spent some time veiwing the work of local professionals to learn more, and found myself particularly struck by your work and your <some quality about this person's work or mention a particular image; something that will tell him/her you've actually looked at their portfolio>._
_
I have some experience in the areas of <... and ...>, and am very dedicated to whatever I am doing, and willing to undertake almost any task. I believe that my willingness to work and learn would be a definite asset to your business._
_
My work is available for review (http://...) and if you are willing, please contact me at your convenience_
_telephone #
e-mail address_

DO NOT E-MAIL - print it on good-quality, heavy-weight bond, sign it neatly in pen, and either deliver it by hand, or mail it. Include as an addendum, your CV with emphasis on education and photographic-related experience.


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## Revan46 (Jul 31, 2013)

Thank-you tirediron. Is there any suggestions you'd have however in deliver it? I mean to show up at a photographer's door randomly to deliver a letter...I feel it's odd. Not that I'm opposed to meeting people but more it just strikes me as very random.

BigMike, the current website I have which is my name (I'll add it to my signature shortly so you and others can view it) has my journalistic work as well as my photos. Is this okay to still link people to? I ask because obviously as you said, link to your best work but since it has my journalistic work as well, should I link them to something else like a Flickr or something? I just feel the latter would be unprofessional while at least a site with my own domain name is more professional.


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## Big Mike (Jul 31, 2013)

> BigMike, the current website I have which is my name (I'll add it to my signature shortly so you and others can view it) has my journalistic work as well as my photos. Is this okay to still link people to? I ask because obviously as you said, link to your best work but since it has my journalistic work as well, should I link them to something else like a Flickr or something? I just feel the latter would be unprofessional while at least a site with my own domain name is more professional.


Hard to say.  If you link to a full website that has all sorts of photos on it, they may not want to take the time to search out what you actually want to show them.  Keep in mind that even asking them to view your site, you are asking for one of their most precious resources...their time.  
I'd suggest creating a page/gallery on your site, specifically for the portfolio that you want to show these wedding photographers.  Give them the link to that page directly.  If you catch their attention or curiosity, they will likely look at the rest of your site, but the idea is to give the info as quickly and easily as possible because people have short attention spans.  You're a journalism student, you probably know a lot more about that, than I do.


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## tirediron (Jul 31, 2013)

Delivery will depend in large part on the type of business front the photographer has.  If he has a store/studio front business with reception, I would deliver it in person.  If they're  a non-frontage business, I would mail (postal mail) the letter, and if there's no mailing address, then I would telephone, introduce myself and summarize the letter and ask if it would be all right to send this (and for an address) or if you could make an appointment to meet with him/her.


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## Revan46 (Jul 31, 2013)

I don't know if it'll show up now but I've put in my signature my website. I think under the wedding show photos I still have more than needed and I also have a feeling my news story photos aren't even needed.


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## Revan46 (Jul 31, 2013)

Any thoughts guys? I'm just curious if the amount I have is a good amount or if there are some I can still get rid of? Let me know.


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## Overread (Jul 31, 2013)

You have a white background with white text - I actually couldn't see the links at first on your web-page. 


As for photos you've a little bit of everything in there, not utterly bad since you don't have a huge amount of any one category so it gives a good even display of both variety and your skill within a subject - good for a portfolio display. I would say that some shots are just a bit plain, basic or just really not anything special that shifts from the dreaded "snapshot" and into the "photo" line; however others look pretty solid-  but some of those are more journalistic and record shots anyway rather than more controlled portrait work


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## Revan46 (Jul 31, 2013)

Hmmm I see what you mean. Do you think I should get rid of the Story photos section? And what do you think of the Hailey photos, the heart on the horse and the shoes one are they okay?  As for the white background with white text, do you mean the white text that's on the greenish bar? I think I know what I can do to solve that...I had actually changed it originally thinking having it on the bar worked but now I realize perhaps it would be better it be along the top like I originally had or something....The issue with the site I use to design the site would originally only allow me four page links up there (in the black part) compared to the white text I have on the green bar.


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## vintagesnaps (Jul 31, 2013)

First thing I saw on your site was that object to the right which became a distraction because I was wondering what in the heck it was. It didn't particularly say photography or photojournalism to me. 

I couldn't find you at first in the photojournalism links, I don't know that anyone's going to look thru that many newspaper editions. I'd think about picking a few of your best. There was one article in which there were a couple of paragraphs where I found myself mentally starting to edit... I did journalism in school which granted has been lot of years ago but I've always been pretty good at writing and editing - some of yours would benefit I think from being more concise. 

I actually was thinking that reading your email, that it might have been better to be more specific. That email didn't particularly convince me why I'd hypothetically want to mentor you - what is it about photography that you have a passion about? - that's what I'd want to know. I've worked with student teachers and done work-related mentoring and to take on mentoring someone in photography I'd want to get an idea whether or not they were committed to this and if it would be worth my time.

I agree with other comments that you have some good photos and some that look as if the quality could be improved, which can happen as you get experience and continue to develop your skills. I particularly liked the series of the couple and their horse (edit - I did wonder at first what the background was for the heart and hands, but after seeing the next photo it made sense), and the set of photos of the arts event, I think those are nicely done. 

edit - Including some of the photojournalism I think could show your experience in covering an event, which indirectly could relate to photographing a wedding as a type of event. But I have more interest in that than doing weddings so I might be biased.


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## Revan46 (Aug 1, 2013)

chefhryl can you have your message make a little more sense? It's so separated with no real sentence structure I'm not sure what you're trying to convey.

vintagesnaps, I'm curious your thoughts about the articles. I only am curious because most of my articles on there (primarily those that were on the linked site) were edited three times in Canadian Press style, which could also be why it confuses you? I don't know, I'm just explaining why it may look like it needs edits. :S) I think the object on the right hand side is supposed to be a typewriter. I'll admit the site I use to design my site comes with somewhat pre-made web designs and I went with this one because to me it felt the most journalistic related but I appreciate the note. I may have to see if there's any way of changing the design or background. I'll keep the journalism type photos though, I appreciate your thoughts about keeping them and thank-you for the compliments on the horse-themed and Art ones.


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## 12sndsgood (Aug 1, 2013)

I agree with Overead on your email, it looks very generic. Tailor it more to the person you are sending it to. explain what you like about them. Most will have names on there weddings so you can say something like  "going thru the album of Jack and Mary, your photo of the couple by the pond blew me away" let them know you took the time to look over there work and there site and that you want to work with them versus you wanting to work with any wedding photographer.


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## Revan46 (Aug 1, 2013)

There's this one photographer I've come across that honestly has thoroughly impressed me. I've been going through their different shots and albums and some have truly been unique, one was even a Vimeo video where someone flipped through a wedding album showing the photos taken. Have never seen that before on other photographers' websites. I plan to mention these but I'm curious what you guys think I should do about approaching them. They do not have any address listed so it would more be a case I'd have to call them (their phone is provided but doing a reverse lookup also doesn't come up with an address) so how would I go about this. I feel like what you guys have been saying really makes me think I should definitely get in touch in person/by voice instead of by e-mail. My concern is the photographer also does workshops (though right now there aren't any) so it makes me wonder if they'd even take on anyone. And what would I say? Obviously it's different than in writing a letter so I'm just curious.

Sorry if again it's a bit of a confusing message, it might be a tad all over the place but any advice would be appreciated.


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## jwbryson1 (Aug 1, 2013)

Big Mike said:


> Welcome to the forum _*eh!*_



^^  See what he did there?!  That's Canadian talk.  :mrgreen:


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## Revan46 (Aug 1, 2013)

Lol. I do like this forum because you guys have such personalities  It's friendliest forum I've been at


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## pgriz (Aug 1, 2013)

I am not a wedding photographer, or even a professional photographer  but I have enough business and sales experience to know that for most people, an approach that identifies them as unique people with notable skills, will get their attention.  Flattery that is not BS is a powerful motivator for the recipient to want to know more.  So, if you have a particular person you want to notice you, you need to let them know you have seen their work, and that you really like what they have done in this situation. 
Something along the lines of

_I have seen the work youve done as shown on the website (their web site) and am very impressed by the quality that you are showing.  I find this image ( image #  ) to be very evocative and it is admirable how youve handled the difficult lighting situation.  The image ( image #...) shows clearly the emotional link between the (person 1) and (person 2), and youve framed it in a unique and attractive way.  Etc.

I am looking at an intern/second shooter engagement with you, since there is obviously much that I can learn from your experience, and would like to know what it would take to have you agree to such an arrangement.  I can offer you my energy, enthusiasm, and proven photography skills (link to photojournalism shots that really work), and organizational skills that should reduce your burdens.   I fully understand that I am not at your level of experience and expertise, but I am hoping you are open to mentoring me and passing on your knowledge and insights.

I would like to call you on (Day/time) to discuss this possibility.  If that time is not convenient, please let me know of an alternative time when I can call you.  Alternatively, I can meet you at your (office/studio/etc) and show you my portfolio.  Please let me know which contact method you prefer.

_If you ask, it's easy to say no.  but if you give them the choice between two options, it is natural for most to choose one or the other.  If you already have their attention because you referenced specific instances of their work, most will be at the very least interested in knowing more.


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## Revan46 (Aug 1, 2013)

Thanks pgriz, I really like this one. Would you be alright with me using it?


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## Rwsphotos (Aug 1, 2013)

amolitor said:


> Wedding photographers are all crazy people. Why do you want to be mentored by a crazy person?


Hey I resemble that remark lol :crazy:


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## pixmedic (Aug 1, 2013)

Rwsphotos said:


> amolitor said:
> 
> 
> > Wedding photographers are all crazy people. Why do you want to be mentored by a crazy person?
> ...



Quoted For Truth


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## Rwsphotos (Aug 1, 2013)

tirediron said:


> Find a local camera club - they usually have access to great workshops which, if not free, are usually offered at substantially reduced rates over those offered to the general public.  You're also MUCH more likely to find mentors there, and while it may not get you in the business, it will get you skills, and many of the old, retired pros who often join camera clubs know people who know people...


 I would add to the above with find a local art school and see what photo work shops they offer.


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## pgriz (Aug 1, 2013)

Revan46 said:


> Thanks pgriz, I really like this one. Would you be alright with me using it?



You're welcome to it.  But do the homework and be prepared to discuss in some detail what the photographer's work shows.  If you are able to highlight the things they are working hard to achieve, then they will 
1)  KNOW that you're on their wavelength as a potential second shooter, and
2)  Know enough about the photography to have an intelligent conversation about goals, objectives, etc.


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## Rwsphotos (Aug 1, 2013)

Remember the first photographer or the one you'd like to work with most still may not want to mentor a new photographer. Depends on their feeling on the subject. But if you continue to pound the pavement following the advice from above you will find some one who has no issues with taking on a mentor ship. No one will  take you on if you give up trying..


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## Revan46 (Aug 1, 2013)

pgriz, actually have been the past two days. Found this amazing wedding photographer which, in comparing to the others I never heard back from and even the ones I have, this one is leaps and bounds.

Rws, Well considering this is my...12th photog I'll be contacting hopefully it will be a yes.


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## vintagesnaps (Aug 1, 2013)

What I meant about editing was that some articles I read seemed to have a bit of redundant or unnecessary information (like stating that police went to a certain address wouldn't be needed if the next sentence states there was an arrest at the scene). I think some of it could be more concise; what I read seemed to be student publications so I don't know what guidelines were used. But if you're looking into photography opportunities at this point you may not need to include much if any written work unless you wanted to do both.  

If none of the photographers you're approaching are interested in mentoring, I wonder if there are other places you might develop some contacts in your area - any student organizations that bring in guest speakers related to photography? or community centers that have exhibits or events related to photography? - sometimes one contact or opportunity can lead to another.


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## Revan46 (Aug 2, 2013)

I'll definitely take a look. And while I see your point, there is a great deal of difference between essay/regular writing and journalism writing. The latter sometimes is redundant but has to be written as if an eighth grader were reading it.


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## 12sndsgood (Aug 6, 2013)

In case anyone is interested www.creativelive.com is havine a "how to be a 2nd shooter" taught by Jasmine Star and her husband J.D. today on their site. Should be some good tips and info for anyone wanting to get into this field


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## Revan46 (Aug 6, 2013)

Thanks 12snds. I'm doing a shoot in a bit so I don't think I can watch but if they rebroadcast it in the near future I'll watch.


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