# Photographic workshops



## Overread (May 9, 2009)

Ok workshops is a bit of a liberty of a name, but its got you looking at the post and that is what counts.

The idea of this approach is to get members of all skills, not just beginners, together into groups of up to 8. These group members will then take the task to provide feedback on each others work in the group.
This is commitment so if you join a group you have to be willing and able to put the time into giving your voice at least once a week to the works of others in the group. You don't have to have a vast understanding of photography, just a keen interest in it and a motivation to help yourself and others. Comments do not have to be technical, nor all compositional - all that is asked is that you put your best effort into commenting and critiquing the other members photos.

As such this is designed to operate like a classroom/workshop setup through the internet. I do expect people to remain polite when speaking to others and to have a good set of manners - that is not to say you cannot be harsh and honest with your comments, in fact honesty is encouraged - but it is to say that when speaking you must use appropriate language to convey your thoughts.

As I said at the start this is open to all levels and all members - I even encourage people not to form groups all of one skill level - mix it up a bit to get different inputs. Also there is to be no grouping according to interests - part of the power of such groups is having people with diverse experiences and tastes in photography so that you get a range of feedback.

These groups are designed to run under their own power - there is no formal teacher to start things, though I do encourage groups to nominate a group leader to help organise and start things each week. Further how the group approaches its setup is totally up to the group - below are some examples for how to run this - note that things should always remain in the public areas of the forum and that in such threads non-members are still allowed to comment - this is not about forming elitist groups in any way. 

Possible methods of operation per week:

1) Have a single thread per week in which each person posts their images and then comments on the others - this could be run by having images/image links send via pm to the group leader and then they setup a single post with each image in it - members then take time to comment in posts on each image and to also talk about key images/aspects as needed.

2) Each member posts and flags a single thread per week (flagging by either a specific title or (recommended) but pming all members with the thread location) in which members of the group can then post and discuss the image. This has the advantage that talk will not get crossed over with talk of different images in the same thread.

3) Groups may make full use of the social groups feature on the site - found here:
The Photo Forum - Photography Discussion Forum - Social Groups
Note that I still encourage people that if they use the social groups for image posting and commenting that they also post images in the more common areas of the forum as well. 

Right now for the tricky part - forming the group. You can use this thread to advertise your interest in being a member or wanting to start a group - I am also willing for people to pm me names to be put into a hat for me to make random groups of 8 (or so depending on numbers) out of.


----------



## manaheim (May 9, 2009)

Um, ok, I'll jump on the wagon o' banding. 

I'm willing and interested.  I'm probably high intermediate skill level or so.


----------



## LuckySo-n-So (May 9, 2009)

Since I'm already on one wagon, I'll jump on this one too and see how it goes.

Hopefully this won't drive me to fall off the other wagon...

My skill level has been upgraded from "totally clueless" to "clueless."  Seriously, I'm still a beginner.


----------



## Bitter Jeweler (May 9, 2009)

I'd like to participate. I like "methods of operation" #1 and #3 myself.

I am a beginer, but not a total noob. I am very interesting in finding some sort of community mentorship, that involves other beginers and more advanced people as well. I believe this is the best way to learn.

My strengths: May only be my drive and determination, at the moment.
My weaknesses: Framing and Composition 
My lofty goals: To show in a gallery. 
My background: Fine Arts/Crafts, speciallizing in jewelry/metals, and sculpture. Very limited 2D design / Illustration education. How I went through 4 years of college, and didn't take Vis Org 101 escapes me.


----------



## d40bby (May 9, 2009)

You can mark me down as interested....beginner here but learning quickly!


----------



## Sherman Banks (May 9, 2009)

Sign me up!  I appreciate you actually putting this into action as the other thread was full of good ideas but I wasn't thinking anyone would actually act on them.  I'm on here everyday and would be totally willing to lead/organize a group.  I really don't know where I'd say my skill level is, but I have a good understanding of a camera's operations and also understand compositional elements quite well.  Plus, I feel I'm active with the feedback to most people's photos and it would be great to know that mine would get some feedback too.


----------



## DScience (May 9, 2009)

I'm a beginner addicted to photography...So, I would like to participate in this most definitely!


----------



## Webby (May 10, 2009)

I would love to participate in something like this! I am a totally clueless beginner who doesn't even know how to operate my camera yet. I hope this doesn't exclude me.


----------



## paulpippin29 (May 10, 2009)

Not a beginner any longer, but by no means a professional either... I'de be honored to partake in this adventure


----------



## Overread (May 11, 2009)

Well 8 is sort of the "magic number" and there are 8 of you appearing.
So you 8 above shakes hands your group 1! 

I would suggest one of you start a soical group in the groups section so that you can have an easy talk about how to set yourself up and how to operate the group


----------



## CyclonePWR (May 11, 2009)

Count me in as well for the next group! I not sure how to classify my self, but I would say would say beginner or just past.


----------



## sburatorul (May 11, 2009)

definitely count me in. i consider myself a beginner and now that i got more time and some new gear i am eager to learn...


----------



## lockwood81 (May 11, 2009)

I'd like to join this.  I'm a beginnner also.


----------



## cindyg2024 (May 11, 2009)

I wouldn't mind joining a group!  I am still a beginner with basic equipment but i would definitely love to get more input and even be assigned "tasks" or "assignments" to complete.


----------



## cindyg2024 (May 11, 2009)

Lockwood... i love your profile pic!


----------



## Chris of Arabia (May 11, 2009)

OK, stick me down for one then. I can claim some 27-28 years experience on and off, most of it on film, but recent years very much digitally based. In some ways, I'm slightly past being overly concerned with what people think about my own photography, but I don't mind adding an opinion or two to other peoples photographs.


----------



## linpelk (May 11, 2009)

I'd like to participate as well.


----------



## sburatorul (May 11, 2009)

well chris of arabia (chris is my name too) i am looking forward to learning from you!


----------



## Skedaddle (May 11, 2009)

I would like to join. I'm a beginner too. Do I have to have a DSLR to join or am I ok with my Canon Powershot S3 IS?


----------



## Sherman Banks (May 11, 2009)

I've got a group created here.  If you want to join, post there with your name (real name preferred but you can stick with your moniker if you'd like), how long you've been shooting, what you feel you are good with and what you feel you would like to improve on.  I'm just taking the first 8 to join so if you're interested and there's room, go ahead and join us.

A question for the mods:  Is there a way to minimize all that dead space on the group page?  And are we should we be posting our threads, in the general gallery?

At Skedaddle: You can join with any camera you like.  The end result is the same, so your P&S will be just fine.


----------



## sburatorul (May 11, 2009)

well isnt the group you created for the first 8? i am confused


----------



## sjluto (May 11, 2009)

I'd like to participate as well. I'm definitely a beginner, just got my DSLR a week ago!


----------



## Sherman Banks (May 11, 2009)

sburatorul said:


> well isnt the group you created for the first 8? i am confused



There is no rhyme or reason to the selection of those people other than first come, first serve.  If it's ok with Overread, I'll just take the first 8 to join the group.


----------



## Overread (May 11, 2009)

well this thread is more to get groups together and such - so if Sherman is "incharge" of that group then he can set the entrance rules.
As for photos I think it important to keep things forum side - clearly the group members must comment on the photo, but there is no reason that others cannot chime in with their own advice and viewpoint as well.


----------



## Sherman Banks (May 11, 2009)

Overread said:


> well this thread is more to get groups together and such - so if Sherman is "incharge" of that group then he can set the entrance rules.


 
I just figured it's better to give people the option to choose the group.  I didn't know if any of the other first 8 wanted to take charge of this, or even if they want to work with me so I'm thinking it's just easier to take whoever wants to join.



Overread said:


> As for photos I think it important to keep things forum side - clearly the group members must comment on the photo, but there is no reason that others cannot chime in with their own advice and viewpoint as well.


So should we just use the beginner's forum for this?  And are we expected to keep the group's photos consolidated into one thread?  If so, I am guessing the thread would be huge and hard to navigate.  Any recommendations on how to proceed?


----------



## Overread (May 11, 2009)

sometimes people have to be forced together otherwise they won't do anything - also I want to avoid groups just ending up as friends clubs - that can tend to end up with people not being as objective as normal and also with isolation of newer members.

As for threads I would say each person gets one thread for their group photo per week - they then post a note in the social group linking to this thread and the group members then follow the link and comment in the thread. 
That leaves it open to the rest of the forum as well. Also as I said earlier people might end up with a dead week and not get any photos done - that being the case and that they don't have any older ones to offer up they should still make and effort to comment on the other members shots.


----------



## mooimeisie (May 11, 2009)

I would definately like to join a group.  My expertise lies in nothing as I am a total noob.


----------



## Sherman Banks (May 11, 2009)

Overread said:


> sometimes people have to be forced together otherwise they won't do anything - also I want to avoid groups just ending up as friends clubs - that can tend to end up with people not being as objective as normal and also with isolation of newer members.


 
Yeah I can see how that might occur.  I'm guessing though that we're going to end up with a lot of members new to the forum so it may not be an issue until later on.



> As for threads I would say each person gets one thread for their group photo per week - they then post a note in the social group linking to this thread and the group members then follow the link and comment in the thread.
> That leaves it open to the rest of the forum as well. Also as I said earlier people might end up with a dead week and not get any photos done - that being the case and that they don't have any older ones to offer up they should still make and effort to comment on the other members shots.


Yeah, great idea.  Hopefully this works out.


----------



## CyclonePWR (May 11, 2009)

BUMP


----------



## c0ps (May 11, 2009)

I'm game, count me in


----------



## Webby (May 11, 2009)

I guess I'm too late to join the first group. Is there enough to create a second group yet? I was really excited when I read that I was in, but then discovered I was too late. Bummer.

Come on people join up!  lol

Webby


----------



## Seefutlung (May 11, 2009)

I'm in.

Gary


----------



## Overread (May 12, 2009)

I think we have enough for a second group now - so if someone wants to take leadership of that and start up a second socail group


----------



## Bitter Jeweler (May 16, 2009)

Did the second group form?


----------



## Overread (May 16, 2009)

nope-  still waiting for a group leader - I will send a few pms to people who have shown and interest and who are not in the first group.


----------



## sunlou (May 16, 2009)

Please count me in... I would really like to participate in something like that. No one I know with enough photo experience to help me get better...

I'll be in group 3 I guess


----------



## lockwood81 (May 21, 2009)

Will a group number 2 be started?  Someone...please....  :thumbup:


----------



## dreyer (May 21, 2009)

I would very much like to be in a group as well.
I would consider myself a beginner too.

- Dreyer


----------



## Overread (May 21, 2009)

Group 2 is awaiting members:
The Photo Forum - Photography Discussion Forum - C&C Practice: Group 2

based on a first come first served approach the first 8 people (after myself) will be allowed into this group. Note that I am NOT taking part in this group just getting the ball rolling  A group leader can be selected from the joining 8 members

Note also that I am currently asking if the new text limit in the groups will be raised or not I hope that it will be.
edit - text limit now up to 5000 so no problems


----------



## mooimeisie (May 21, 2009)

How do I join the group?


----------



## Overread (May 21, 2009)

follow the link above in my post - that should take you to the group and on there there should be signup line - click and your in


----------



## GeneralBenson (May 21, 2009)

Ok I joined it.  What do I do now?


----------



## beansprouts3 (May 21, 2009)

I'd love to participate! I would consider myself a beginner who knows more about what a good photo looks like than her ability to produce it herself. If I can bring my abilities up to par with what I think a great photo should look like, I'd be THRILLED.


----------



## farmerj (May 21, 2009)

I have added my name to the hat for the group formerly known as Group 2.

Ok, I just joined Group 2.


----------



## Overread (May 21, 2009)

General - read the first thread there of course and introduce yourself to the rest 
when there are 8 members to the group (excluding myself of course) then I will start up group 3 and the group 8 members can decide on a group leader - basicaly the bossy one who gets things running.


----------



## mooimeisie (May 22, 2009)

Still 2 spots left in group 2.


----------



## Overread (May 22, 2009)

Group 2 now full and locked (well set to invite only)

Group 3 now ready: http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/groups/candc-practice-group-3.html


----------



## marcpro (May 22, 2009)

I guess I just squeezed in group 2!
Don't know what to expect, but looking forward to these.
Marc


----------



## TheDMan (May 22, 2009)

I would like to join. I guess I'm in group 3.


----------



## taracary (May 22, 2009)

I'd like to particpate as well.   Bear in mind that I am definitely a beginner and probably won't have much worth posting.   Most of my shots at this point still end up in the recycler   Still, while I don't claim to have a lot of knowledge, I can always offer an opinion if you need another beginner in a group.


----------



## Overread (May 26, 2009)

Still lots of space in group 3 to go!
new and experienced photographers alike welcome!


----------



## Overread (Jun 2, 2009)

come on now I am sure there are more out there who want in - group 3 still has places
The Photo Forum - Photography Discussion Forum - CandC Practice: Group 3


----------



## Guido44 (Jun 2, 2009)

I'm in, I just joined group 3.

Thanks for starting this guys!

dan


----------



## giulia_grimaldi (Jun 6, 2009)

Hey guys,

just joined group 3! 

:-D


----------



## Bitter Jeweler (Jun 6, 2009)

Overread, thanks for getting this going!
I've found it very helpful.


----------



## Nolan (Jun 6, 2009)

This sounds interesting, I'm in. My experience i guess could be classified as amateur, so this could be very useful for me. Only problem is group 3 is full, so overread could you start a forth group?


----------



## Overread (Jun 6, 2009)

group 3 has one more place (its 8 active membes plus me starting the group off - so 9 total) get in quick then I will start group 4


----------



## Nolan (Jun 6, 2009)

Oh ok, i see. I over looked that. Well i joined. Thanks for this great idea!


----------



## lelo (Jun 6, 2009)

very interesting thread you can count me in too   i am in the  very very beginning stage  i have had my camera for awhile and have taken a few pictures but i want to learn to take PHOTOS  i am my own worst critique


----------



## Overread (Jun 6, 2009)

Group 4 now up and read - note that only 7 additional people are allowed in this group since I will be an active member of this group as well
The Photo Forum - Photography Discussion Forum - CandC Practice: Group 4

*hopes that does not scare them all off *


----------



## yogibear (Jun 7, 2009)

Any more room in any of these groups?


----------



## Overread (Jun 7, 2009)

Group 4
The Photo Forum - Photography Discussion Forum - CandC Practice: Group 4

still has 6 empty spaces on offer


----------



## Overread (Jun 16, 2009)

still lots of free space in group 4!


----------



## InTheShoot (Jun 16, 2009)

I would love to join in, what fantastic motivation!!!

I am a beginner for all intents and purposes.
I am open to any method of operation - just tell me where, who and what!!


----------



## benlonghair (Jun 16, 2009)

Joined group 4. looking foward to working you all.


----------



## NateS (Jun 16, 2009)

I just joined group 4 even though it seems to be dead since it's creating.  Is anything going to happen with Group 4 overread?


----------



## farmerj (Jun 16, 2009)

Group #2 seems to be gasping for air.  Not many active here.


----------



## Overread (Jun 16, 2009)

Nates - group 4 was rather dead till I bumped this thread today 
now its got some members into it we can start something yes  - introductions can be added to the rules and introductions thread there for a  start 

farmerj - have you pmed the other members?


----------



## Sherman Banks (Jun 16, 2009)

farmerj said:


> Group #2 seems to be gasping for air.  Not many active here.



I haven't seen anyone in your group post other than you.  We can take you in if you want.  Even though we have 9 people, some are too busy to post consistently (including myself) and taking on another would be fine.


----------



## farmerj (Jun 16, 2009)

mooimeisie and I have been pm'ing and posting.  She pm'd everyone and Marcpro is the only one that has picked up again.

That's 3 out of 8.

I have been busy this last week with getting ready for college in Aug.  Loosing the rear main seal on my truck 50 miles out of town yesterday has not helped matters any.


----------



## mooimeisie (Jun 16, 2009)

farmerj said:


> mooimeisie and I have been pm'ing and posting. She pm'd everyone and Marcpro is the only one that has picked up again.
> 
> That's 3 out of 8.
> 
> I have been busy this last week with getting ready for college in Aug. Loosing the rear main seal on my truck 50 miles out of town yesterday has not helped matters any.


 
Maybe nobody likes us :cry:


----------



## farmerj (Jun 16, 2009)

mooimeisie said:


> Maybe nobody likes us :cry:




Probably all that manure you been walking in..


Love that fresh country air.


Honestly, I do love the smell of a farm.


----------



## NateS (Jun 16, 2009)

Overread said:


> Nates - group 4 was rather dead till I bumped this thread today
> now its got some members into it we can start something yes  - introductions can be added to the rules and introductions thread there for a  start
> 
> farmerj - have you pmed the other members?



Cool.  Well, I joined and created a new thread for c&c to get things rolling for Group 4.  Hopefully some others will post some c&c requests up soon to get it all moving (by the way, I somehow didn't see this thread until today..lol).  

Getting some weekly themes would be pretty cool too.


----------



## mooimeisie (Jun 16, 2009)

farmerj said:


> mooimeisie said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe nobody likes us :cry:
> ...


 
That's funny.  :lmao:


----------



## marcpro (Jun 16, 2009)

I feel a topic coming on.... compost and other natural fertilizers.

Cowpies against a sunset, that's original, no?


----------



## mooimeisie (Jun 16, 2009)

marcpro said:


> I feel a topic coming on.... compost and other natural fertilizers.
> 
> Cowpies against a sunset, that's original, no?


 
If you want, I could do a series on this without too much trouble, but you'd have to do some serious C&C on it.


----------



## Chris of Arabia (Jun 16, 2009)

farmerj said:


> Group #2 seems to be gasping for air.  Not many active here.



OK, I'll hold my hands up here and say that I've not really managed to engage with this so far. There are a few reasons which I'll lists to see if they resonate with others:


The social groups thing is almost invisible without making a specific effort to go looking for it.
Related to that, on many occasions, group members are posting threads related to the initiative are spread all over the forum, with no obvious reference to their reason for origination.
When a topic is selected, group members are posting their shots into individual threads - wouldn't it be better to have them all in one thread where they could be dissected and compared for their respective merits?
On the topic thing, why do we need a topic? Would it not be simpler to challenge each group member to shoot/post one photo every week and see what feedback can be provided? I'll be quite honest, there are some subjects that I have no interest/opportunity to shoot for and would be less than comfortable providing a critique for. I know some will say that they don't know what to shoot, but it really isn't that important - hell, point the camera down your trousers and call it a low-light macro shot for all I care . Just make it the best possible shot you can achieve for that week.
I was on holiday
I'm busy at work
I have to keep locking threads of garbage
The Photo Challenge is a higher priority
I have around 1,500 shots from the last few weeks I ought to be editing
You get the idea
For me it comes back to two things, make it easier and don't make me have to look for it.


----------



## mooimeisie (Jun 16, 2009)

Chris of Arabia

Some very valid points set out.  It seems to me that this is something that should be worked out as a group, in the group discussions.  Some of us are very inexperienced at photography, groups and such and would greatly benefit from someone with experience.  A few of us having been trying to make this work and obviously we need help and leadership.


----------



## Overread (Jun 16, 2009)

Chris I agree its something that should be sorted in group - I have also asked for some sort of method for posts/threads in groups getting attention but so far I think there is no codes setup for such a notice - something you could look into though and talk to the site owners about as well in that mod section.

Also afew ideas/points to raise with your group

1) Threads - my original idea was that each person each week could post a thread (in any correct section) on the normal side of the forum and then in a master thread in the social group post the link to that thread. Then the members can come and focus on that photo - comment and talk whilst still leaving the field open for the rest of the community to take part as well.

2) I think I would advoid having everything in one thread per week - I know its nice and easy in some ways, but it means your going to get conversations going on which are crossing over each other - give that a few posts and the thread would be a nightmare to read through

3) I never envisioned topics per week - again something to speak to group about I think and come to an agreement. Heck you could all swap msn addresses if you wanted and have a quicker talk in msns chat feature rather than through the forums if you were all on at the same time *I would suggest the sites chat feature, but I think in the changeover and upgrade we have lost this now*


----------



## InTheShoot (Jun 16, 2009)

Are there any more groups open?


----------



## Bitter Jeweler (Jun 16, 2009)

Overread said:


> Chris I agree its something that should be sorted in group - I have also asked for some sort of method for posts/threads in groups getting attention but so far I think there is no codes setup for such a notice - something you could look into though and talk to the site owners about as well in that mod section.
> 
> Also afew ideas/points to raise with your group
> 
> ...


 

If the problem seems to be inactivity, boot em, get all the active people from other groups to form 1 new one. You really need to be motivated to do this, as some are, or it just won't happen. How hard is it for each member to post 2-3 photos a week, and have each group member critique them? If people are soooo new that they don't feel they can critique, they should read other critique threads, where a wealth of information has been posted about technical skills and compositional elements.


----------



## Seefutlung (Jun 16, 2009)

I thought I was in group 2 ... guess I must have missed something.


----------



## RONDAL (Jun 17, 2009)

beginner with the cynicism of a seasoned vet, and the eagerness and patience of a 4 year old.


----------



## EhJsNe (Jun 17, 2009)

Ill join a group! This sounds rather nifty.

I would consider myself as an upper level beginner......

I know about photography, not flashes, not PP (Im kinda getting into GIMP....but I cant understand anything about it really....)


----------



## EhJsNe (Jun 18, 2009)

Ok group four has a new member, guess I should have read more than the first 5 posts before just saying Ill join....

So say hello to the newest group four member.

*goes to explore what the group has to offer*


----------



## mooimeisie (Jul 6, 2009)

It's now been almost 2 months since this thread was started and we now have 4 groups going. Group 2 started out slow, with a few members making contributions and has now died. I'm wondering how some of you are feeling about these groups. Are they what you expected? Are you happy or are you disappointed? Did you rush into joining a group without thinking about the commitment or were you an continuous participant? Just wondering what all your thoughts are.


----------



## marcpro (Jul 6, 2009)

My participation is on and off, because I have many activities that take me away for weeks at a time.  

An off-site weekend or week workshop would probably work best for me, then the commitment is taken care of (and paid for, to motivate me!).

Cheers,
Marc.


----------

