# Printing BW400CN negs



## AlanO (Jan 26, 2014)

I have some old BW400CN negs I would like to print. Will they print up like true bw film or is it a waste of time and materials? Thanks in advance for any help.


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## Rick58 (Jan 26, 2014)

I'm very interested in the replies to this thread. I have ten rolls in my fridge I've been Hee-Hawin' over for the past year. I bought them on clearance at a local shop and began kicking myself as I was leaving the driveway.


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## AlanO (Jan 26, 2014)

Rick58 said:


> I'm very interested in the replies to this thread. I have ten rolls in my fridge I've been Hee-Hawin' over for the past year. I bought them on clearance at a local shop and began kicking myself as I was leaving the driveway.



I know standard bw processing for the negs is different than for true bw (correct me if I am wrong). I actually have the developed negs and would just like to print them.


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## Rick58 (Jan 26, 2014)

Yeah, It's actually standard C-41 color development for the neg's


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## vimwiz (Jan 26, 2014)

I have developed ilford XP2 (A black a white C-41 process film) using a basic b&w process at home , they provide then numbers for this, found it gave chunkier grain, and less contrast, but the negs were overall ok.

I think printing will be OK. (I usually scan, and mine scanned OK, I chose B&W rather than colour for the scanner settings)


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## vintagesnaps (Jan 26, 2014)

I thought that negatives from that film weren't intended to be used with B&W photo paper and chemistry, but I think I only tried that film maybe once and never tried it in the darkroom. 

However, (and I don't know if I can make this long story short!) I found in my stash some Panalure paper, and tried a sheet of it when doing lumen prints (sun prints using vintage B&W photo paper) - it turned out quite bizarre. So I looked it up to see what it was, and it was designed to be used with tungsten or fluorescent light. I think the purpose was to make B&W prints from color negs. 

I've made lumen prints/photograms with the Panalure under the fluorescent light in my kitchen and it's worked nicely, so this week I could try a quick contact print using a strip of color C41 developed negs with it and see what I get (which I've been meaning to try). Not sure how that would compare to the BW400CN negs but might be comparable enough to give some idea if it might work to make prints from it using fluorescent light. I don't know offhand if Panalure or something comparable is still made.


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## dxqcanada (Jan 26, 2014)

Kodak BW400CN is designed specifically for colour C-41 processing AND for printing on colour paper.
It has the same orange/brown base as most C-41 colour negs.

IF you want to print it on B&W paper your times will be longer and you will need to up the grade.
or as Sharon mentioned ... Kodak Panalure paper.


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## Rick58 (Jan 26, 2014)

Dennis, How well do the neg's scan?


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## dxqcanada (Jan 26, 2014)

Don't know, never scanned that film yet. 
The last time I shot with that film was B(efore)D(igital) ... I am not sure where those negs are.

but I do remember the prints coming out ok at my colour mini-lab (our printers knew how to print it as monochrome as possible)


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## AlanO (Jan 26, 2014)

The little research I did, the consensus was standard bw printing did not provide a good result. Sharon, I keep me updated on how the experiment turns out.


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## dxqcanada (Jan 26, 2014)

As Panalure is no longer produced you can try  ILFORD GALERIE DIGITAL SILVER paper

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/products/producttype.asp?n=4&t=Photographic+Papers+Digital


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## ann (Jan 27, 2014)

My students do this all the time, and yes it is tricky, but can be done.


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## gsgary (Jan 27, 2014)

This is T400CN, negs were developed in Rodinal (instead of C41) and they scanned great


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## AlanO (Jan 27, 2014)

I track down some old PANALURE and see how it works, thanks for the suggestions


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## vintagesnaps (Jan 27, 2014)

I'm waiting for the next snowy cloudy day - today I have sun!! - which is just a couple of days down the road. I'm going to try it just to see...


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## webestang64 (Jan 28, 2014)

First thing to remember about T400CN, CN stands for color negative. Printing CN developed in C-41 onto standard BW paper is futile at best. In my BW lab I used to use Kodak Panalure designed to accept the orange based film. Today most of my customers at the lab just get it scanned. The Noritzu 1800 series has a specified setting just for that film for optimal scanning values.


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## AlanO (Jan 28, 2014)

I have ordered some Panulure paper off Ebay. My enlarger lamp specs at 2900K, will I get warmer tones on this paper? If so, would a different light source or maybe a filter help correct this?  ,


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## ann (Jan 29, 2014)

good luck with the paper, i hope you didn't pay much as it doesn't hold up well over time and it has been off the market for years (just a heads up, don't mean to rain on your fun, but.......)


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## webestang64 (Jan 29, 2014)

AlanO said:


> I have ordered some Panulure paper off Ebay. My enlarger lamp specs at 2900K, will I get warmer tones on this paper? If so, would a different light source or maybe a filter help correct this?  ,



I use this developer to adjust between cold and warm tones.......
Ethol LPD Powder Paper Developer 1 Gallon | Freestyle Photographic Supplies


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## AlanO (Jan 29, 2014)

ann said:


> good luck with the paper, i hope you didn't pay much as it doesn't hold up well over time and it has been off the market for years (just a heads up, don't mean to rain on your fun, but.......)



Paid $8.00 + shipping for an unopened 25 pack.  We'll see.


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## AlanO (Jan 29, 2014)

webestang64 said:


> AlanO said:
> 
> 
> > I have ordered some Panulure paper off Ebay. My enlarger lamp specs at 2900K, will I get warmer tones on this paper? If so, would a different light source or maybe a filter help correct this? ,
> ...



Thanks for the link...


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## vintagesnaps (Jan 29, 2014)

When I'm doing lumen prints I set up on a table in a sunny window and do long exposures, minutes to hours... if it's overcast I leave them overnight, til the next day, especially with really old paper. But with that process I don't get standard B&W I get bluish gray, purples, orange tones, etc. With the Panalure under fluorescent light I got a nice bluish gray with a few hours' exposure. 

I know someone who's used expired paper to do more standard prints and couldn't remember her process - here's her blog and this is who I learned about lumen prints from. (Her picture of papers she uses looks about like what I have.) 
Craft! Bang! Boom! » Vintage photo paper shootout ? contact paper edition 
Some old papers seem to be usable under an enlarger or at least to do contact prints but you'd probably have to zap a good bit more light on it than with fresh paper. I've found as she did that pre- 'school bus yellow' Kodak is really fogged (what can you expect from paper that expired in the 1930's and '40's?) 

With the Panalure for me it got freaky in the sun so I don't know what it would do under the glow of an enlarger (I don't have one and the university darkroom I'd been using is under reconstruction so I haven't been able to try it). From what I read it was meant to be used with tungsten/fluorescent light. 

If it doesn't work out I'd buy the Panalure off ya. Since the next couple of days will once again consist of freezing stuff falling out of the sky I'm going to get out some of my Panalure and see what I get w/some color negatives. I like to experiment, especially if I'm only wasting some old paper that nobody much wants anyway - I got a bunch at a camera swap one time and they couldn't carry it to my car fast enough...


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## AlanO (Mar 20, 2014)

Just a follow-up on my attempt to print on Panalure paper. First 2 pics are neg scans, 2nd 2 are the prints scans. Paper was fogged with no highlights mostly grey, I bumped the contrast pp on the prints to get an image out but the prints are low contrast very dark. 

Neg Scans




Searching by Nokinrocks, on Flickr




raised by Nokinrocks, on Flickr

Prints Scans




87110009 by Nokinrocks, on Flickr




87110008 by Nokinrocks, on Flickr


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## dxqcanada (Mar 20, 2014)

Hmm, that's quiet fogged paper ... makes it very "artistic".


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