# What's the key to a good portrait?



## ArmoredPersonel48698 (Aug 24, 2009)

Next year, in college, I'm hoping to get an intern spot with a local photography group.  They specialize in portraits (like school shots, sports, family, modeling, etc.).  What is the key to a good portrait shot?  After my year or two, or maybe 4, what kind of equipment would I need to look at getting.  Rolling with a Nikon D60, Nikkor 18-55 and 55-200mm (need a better lens yes?) and a SB-600.


----------



## Jeffro (Aug 24, 2009)

No Key,  it is everything in one.  Good Photographer that has good lenses, with good lighting, good back ground, good composition, good subject, in focus.  So no Key just all the basics combined to make a good shot!


----------



## ArmoredPersonel48698 (Aug 24, 2009)

What about equipment?  Because I will be going to college to take up a photography profession...hopefully.


----------



## Derrel (Aug 24, 2009)

I'm a former portrait shooter who made a full-time living from shooting studio portraits in the early 1990's, so I will give you a couple of pointers about what makes a good portrait. First off, and this might rankle some amateur feathers here, but ditch the DX camera and buy a FF digital SLR, or at least ADD a FF body to your kit; DX is over twice as small as FX, and the way lenses behave on DX is disadvantageous to you as a portrait shooter both indoors and outdoors. To shoot a 6 foot tall person on FX, with an 85mm lens, you can stand 20 feet away. With a DX camera, you need to be 34 feet way for the same field of view. And at 34 feet, the DOF is hugely increased. Indoors, in small studios, DX means ultra-short focal lengths to get the width you need to encompass groups, and that means HUGE depth of field, and almost no background control. So, look into getting an FX Nikon body. Seriously. It will make your work look more-professional, and make your life much easier.

Second. The key to a good portrait shot besides equipment, is rapport with the subject and confidence-building between you and your subject. Confidence on your part translates to confidence on their part. You need to learn how to look confident, and sound confident, and learn how to simply and clearly tell your subjects how to pose using verbal instructions.

Most volume shooters and fast-paced shooters use pack and head studio strobe systems. Monolights need a boatload of electrical outlets for a six-light shoot,and frankly, most monolights are very one-dimensional,without enough flexibility in terms of heads offered, or the ability to focus or flood the beam spread, have no Fresnel spot accessories, etc. As a new shooter starting out, unless you have a trust fund, stick with Speedotron pack and head systems using mostly 102 light units and 805 or 2400-series power packs bought used. Soooooooooo many people go broke in photography that buying used Speedotron lighting allows you to assemble a complete, entire studio with five 102 light heads and 2- 202VF (Variable Focusing) heads, three power packs, eight light stands, one heavy boom stand, 4 each of 7 and 11.5 inch reflectors, and one-22 inch beauty dish with grid, 3 or 4 barndoor sets, honeycomb grid sets for the 7 and 11.5 inch reflectors--all of this can be bought used for the cost of ONE higher-end Profoto pack and one light head. I'm not kidding on the prices either.

I know other people like other brands of lighting gear, and many will suggest Alien Bees, but I think you'll get more respect,and more done with less hassle by buying Speedotron Black Line equipment on the USED market,and specifically from e-Bay or craigslist.

Lens wise, an FX format camera makes a 70-200 a very useful lens; on DX, the FOV crop makes a 70-200 much less-useful indoors. The 105 DC and 85mm 1.4 AF-D Nikkors are superb portrait lenses; on DX, indoors, they become instantly LESS-useful, by far.

There really is no one,single key to getting good portraits--there are many things you must do correctly, but owning or having access to the right equipment will make things easier than having to continually "fight" your camera,lenses,and lights.


----------



## Big Mike (Aug 24, 2009)

> What's the key to a good portrait?


Light.

You can have all the best equipment that money can buy, but if you don't have (or don't know how to make) good lighting, then you won't be able to create good portraits.  
It's not a matter of which camera, or which lens...or even which lighting equipment.  It's about understanding light and how it illuminates your subject.  It's about knowing the relationship between light and shadow.

Of course, there are many other factors, equipment being one of them.  But without the know-how, you money is wasted on all that great gear.


----------



## ArmoredPersonel48698 (Aug 24, 2009)

Derrel said:


> I'm a former portrait shooter who made a full-time living from shooting studio portraits in the early 1990's, so I will give you a couple of pointers about what makes a good portrait. First off, and this might rankle some amateur feathers here, but ditch the DX camera and buy a FF digital SLR, or at least ADD a FF body to your kit; DX is over twice as small as FX, and the way lenses behave on DX is disadvantageous to you as a portrait shooter both indoors and outdoors. To shoot a 6 foot tall person on FX, with an 85mm lens, you can stand 20 feet away. With a DX camera, you need to be 34 feet way for the same field of view. And at 34 feet, the DOF is hugely increased. Indoors, in small studios, DX means ultra-short focal lengths to get the width you need to encompass groups, and that means HUGE depth of field, and almost no background control. So, look into getting an FX Nikon body. Seriously. It will make your work look more-professional, and make your life much easier.
> 
> Second. The key to a good portrait shot besides equipment, is rapport with the subject and confidence-building between you and your subject. Confidence on your part translates to confidence on their part. You need to learn how to look confident, and sound confident, and learn how to simply and clearly tell your subjects how to pose using verbal instructions.
> 
> ...



I thank you for that information, but do also take into consideration that I am only 17 and buying a full body camera is WAY out of the question.  But once I get a steady job, get my hands on one last thing for my car, get to and through college, get a better job, then I might get a full body camera.  Maybe even one with like 50 MP (those'll be out by then...right?).



Big Mike said:


> > What's the key to a good portrait?
> 
> 
> Light.
> ...



I heard reflectors are a good investment and steady on w/ flash lamps are a good idea as well.


----------



## JerryPH (Aug 24, 2009)

Big Mike said:


> > What's the key to a good portrait?
> 
> 
> Light.



I'd put light in the  #2 position.  Hardware as #3 and knowledge as the #1 way to get good portraits.


----------



## blash (Aug 24, 2009)

ArmoredPersonel48698 said:


> I thank you for that information, but do also take into consideration that I am only 17 and buying a full body camera is WAY out of the question.



Just pointing out, film is the same size as FX - and much cheaper. You can get a simple film SLR for around $60 online - professional ones go in the range of $300. You'll also get better colors and better results when using it with a nicer film. And keep in mind - all you really need to get a basic nice portrait is a single flash head, call it $100. So yes, it's possible to do professional quality portraits with nothing more than $100 for the film body + $20 for film + processing + $400 for an 85mm f/1.8 lens + $100 for flash and cord = $620. Not too shabby.


----------



## camz (Aug 24, 2009)

Wow a variety of opinions on this...i likes 

I think what makes a good portrait is imagination. Your imagination and vision will always lead the way.  The others are just to fine tune it IMO.  Once having final shot in your head before you even take it, you use the various tools available like equipment, logic, knowledge, light manipulation, subject manipulation, rules of thirds,emotions, guidelines, etc to fine tune it. 

If you can manifest something from your head and deliver what you visualize and transform it into physical form...man that's just photography at its best.

Offcourse alot of my best work is just plain ol luck too


----------



## table1349 (Aug 24, 2009)

The Rules Of Good Portraiture - PhotoCamel - Your Friendly Photo Forum


----------



## mooimeisie (Aug 24, 2009)

10. The Rules Of Good Portraiture  Here's an interesting read on portraits.


----------



## ArmoredPersonel48698 (Aug 24, 2009)

blash said:


> ArmoredPersonel48698 said:
> 
> 
> > I thank you for that information, but do also take into consideration that I am only 17 and buying a full body camera is WAY out of the question.
> ...



How does a Canon A1 with 24mm, 28mm, 52mm, 250mm, 200mm tele, 18mm (macro), 400mm tele-extender, and a nice flash unit as well as an auto winder sound?    That's my old film set.


----------



## craig (Aug 24, 2009)

I would like to offer a totally different school of thought so long as it does not offend you. At any point please feel free to say Craig shut up. If I veer of track feel free to to say Craig shut up. This is only my opinion and should be taken as such. If I offend you in anyway please know that it is not my intention. I am here to offer my thoughts on your post. They may be totally off base. Long story short I like to voice my thoughts on photography. I have made photography my life since the age of 13, so I am experienced. 

That being said...

Why at the ripe age of 17 are you interested in shooting retail photography? Personally at that age I set my vision toward the editorial world and have never stopped. That is a whole other topic.

What is the key to a good portrait shot? The answer starts with you. You must control the shoot and understand what you and the client are trying to portray in the final image. This can be done in a matter of seconds or in a matter of hours. Your gear and lighting is a means to an end. Take your time and understand these key elements. As time goes on you will develop a style and that will be your calling card to success.

For example; Annie Liebovitz started working for Rolling Stone at the the age of 17. George Hurrell started in Orange County, CA with a falling apart camera and lens and outdated paper. Craig Blank's portraits of his mother eventually worked into his current shooting style. Passion and creativity is what will make your photos work. Technical details and a good business sense will help turn your dreams into reality

Love & Bass


----------



## Derrel (Aug 25, 2009)

The OP wrote, "After my year or two, or maybe 4"

You're 17 now....don't you think that in two years, or four years, you'll be able to afford a full-frame body? Right now you can buy a used Canon 5D for $900 or so on the actual used market if you stay away from big-name websites where prices are top-dollar. Sell the DX stuff and the slow,inadequate kit lens, and buy a used camera and a couple of appropriate professional-caliber, used lenses.

In four years, I expect that you can buy a FF digital SLR body like a Canon 5D for $500 on the used market, or a D700 Nikon for $1,000. Your original question was "what kind of equipment would I need to look at getting." I told you what you'll need if you want to shoot family and individual portraiture as well as doing modeling portfolio work. It doesn't matter that you are 17 now...you asked what you WILL NEED,and frankly if you're more interested in getting accessories for your car, you'll probably not be able to afford decent equipment for years to come.

If you want to shoot professionally, you'll need decent camera, lenses, and lighting and grip equipment. If you want to do it, you'll need to forgo the $140 Nikes and the killer car stereo system with satellite radio and the 20-inch "dubs" (wheels), and tuned exhaust system. Buy used equipment to get started, and let other people take the huge depreciation hit.


----------



## ArmoredPersonel48698 (Aug 25, 2009)

Derrel said:


> The OP wrote, "After my year or two, or maybe 4"
> 
> You're 17 now....don't you think that in two years, or four years, you'll be able to afford a full-frame body? Right now you can buy a used Canon 5D for $900 or so on the actual used market if you stay away from big-name websites where prices are top-dollar. Sell the DX stuff and the slow,inadequate kit lens, and buy a used camera and a couple of appropriate professional-caliber, used lenses.



1) I don't have a job...well...I do...but that ended yesterday (I do audio installs...seasonal thing).
2) My bank account is strained enough as is.
3) I enjoy photography to much to sell what I have.
4) I'm not intending on making this a career any time soon.

That's why I said, buying a full frame is out of the question.



> If you want to shoot professionally, you'll need decent camera, lenses, and lighting and grip equipment. If you want to do it, you'll need to forgo the $140 Nikes and the killer car stereo system with satellite radio and the 20-inch "dubs" (wheels), and tuned exhaust system. Buy used equipment to get started, and let other people take the huge depreciation hit.



Car audio > Photography at the moment.  But seeing as I'm done working on my ride for the time being, I can devote more time and eventually money into the profession/hobby.  When I deeply get into it, I'll blow some money on some good parts.  You try spending 15-17 grand on an audio system, and see if photography takes up a big part of your life.  I have inhaled more exhaust and gas fumes than you can imagine over the past year due to my obsession with car audio.  And running 25kw of power in your car can do that.  How did I get that money you ask?  By racing my restored corvette.  I'll spare you the details.  But since school has started (as of today) and I've got some stupid bs graducation project to do, buying new toys is a tad bit far fetched at the moment.

Now, what are your opinions on that film camera I listed?  Always wanted to try my hand at film photography...even though it's a tad more expensive.  I pretty much have everything I need for that right there.  Just get a few extra do-dads and loads of film and boom.


----------



## DeadEye (Aug 25, 2009)

Derrel is spot on about the equipment choice. Its experance talking.

FF is best. Speedo is quality rock solid dependable and cheep on ebay.

I use speedo with 1d mkIII,not FF but bigger than dx,I wish for a 1ds or 5d

Craig uses speedo too

Working pro tools to make the job more easy.


I say as a student use what you have. Learn Learn Learn

I learned on film then on xti. 

Shoot the film and dslr both on same subject to see your own results.

  Cheers Dan


----------



## mariusz (Aug 27, 2009)

the use of light!


----------



## JerryPH (Aug 27, 2009)

craig said:


> Why at the ripe age of 17 are you interested in shooting retail photography?



At 17, I was more interested in "shooting" girls than retail photography... lol

I agree that for ULTIMATE final results, a FF helps, but to get good portrait shots a FF camera is *far* from mandatory.

Knowledge and lighting will get you 80% of the way there.  The other 20% you can pick up with the FX camera once you can afford it.  Lenses make a bigger difference than just the DX vs FX issue, IMHO.

This coming from someone that owns FX and DX cameras.


----------



## Village Idiot (Aug 27, 2009)

Not following the rules...


----------



## SanDiegoPhotographer (Aug 27, 2009)

I got into photography when i was 16 in high school and started with a Nikon N75 and a 28-90. Now at 21 I own my own company and have upgraded to the Nikon D300 and shoot portraits with my 50mm 1.8. Nothing special at all but people pay me and they enjoy their photos. I even teach classes.

The reason I stated this is because depending on how you define photographic success it is certainly possible for you to take your passion to another level at a young age and do it quickly.

When it comes to taking portraits you need to practice, practice, practice. I still don't even think I am that great and I will always be constantly looking to improve. In order to do this you need to get some of your friends, guys and girls and ask to shoot them for fun (make sure they are photogenic and at least want to be in front of the camera) By doing this it doesn't matter if the pics are good or not. You are able to play with different techniques and experiment with the equipment you currently have. I would even recommend working at a local camera store for a little while. I worked at a Ritz Camera and found it to be the better than any class I ever took. I was able to learn about all the different equipment and play with it.

So my final bit of advice is you got to be confident. When taking your pictures act like you know what you are doing even if you don't. This makes you and your subject feel better and the photos will come out better because of it.

I hope this helps


----------



## JerryPH (Aug 27, 2009)

SanDiegoPhotographer said:


> ...make sure they are photogenic
> 
> When taking your pictures act like you know what you are doing even if you don't.



Well, if you can make the people who are not all that photogenic and make them look good, to me, that is a bigger challenge than having some supermodel look-a-like just stand and smile for me.  There is a lot less effort involved to make a supermodel look good vs someone who is more ordinary.

When I was learning from scratch at the start, I was sincere... 100% sincere... my subjects knew I was inexperienced, but that I would do my best all the time.  I always made light of it and just relaxed and did my thing as I tried to help the model do her thing in the direction I thought I wanted.

"Acting" doesn't cut it for me in any aspect of my life... either you are, or want to be experienced and "acting" and/or "faking" are just too close to my way of thinking and I avoid that mindset. 

Confidence comes from experience and experience comes from making MANY mistakes, thousands of pictures and lots of practice.  Be yourself and enjoy the process, confident or not.


----------



## c.cloudwalker (Aug 27, 2009)

ArmoredPersonel48698 said:


> Next year, in college, I'm hoping to get an intern spot with a local photography group.  They specialize in portraits (like school shots, sports, family, modeling, etc.).  What is the key to a good portrait shot?  After my year or two, or maybe 4, what kind of equipment would I need to look at getting.  Rolling with a Nikon D60, Nikkor 18-55 and 55-200mm (need a better lens yes?) and a SB-600.



If you're interning I imagine this group will teach you how they want you to shoot for them. What you say of this group makes me think of retail photography and this kind of companies usually have a set way of doing things that they don't like their people to deviate from too much.

I have never worked for this kind of companies so I'm not sure how they decide who they hire but I would think it is more a question of your understanding of the basics of photography and your teachability than any thing else.

With this type of company, it used to be that you would go out on assignments with a trainer for a while and when the trainer decided you could go on your own, meaning you could deliver what the company wanted, you would set "free."

It seems to me they also gave you the equipment to work with.

Now, I'm an old fart and I'm sure some things have changed but, if this is what you want to do, I would worry more about what gets you hired than anything else.


----------



## ArmoredPersonel48698 (Aug 28, 2009)

c.cloudwalker said:


> If you're interning I imagine this group will teach you how they want you to shoot for them. What you say of this group makes me think of retail photography and this kind of companies usually have a set way of doing things that they don't like their people to deviate from too much.



It's actually a newspaper.  A local one at that.  I'd be interning with their "photographer."  Hell, I can take better pictures than him with my phone.  He's pathetic.



> I have never worked for this kind of companies so I'm not sure how they decide who they hire but I would think it is more a question of your understanding of the basics of photography and your teachability than any thing else.



I know of some of the basics of photography.  I'm just starting to "master" lighting, flash, effects, etc.



> With this type of company, it used to be that you would go out on assignments with a trainer for a while and when the trainer decided you could go on your own, meaning you could deliver what the company wanted, you would set "free."



Meh.  I doubt they would set me free.  Considering I'm in school for 8:15 - 3:15, and taking pictures for my schools yearbook after that, it'd be kind of difficult to intern with anyone, much less have a job.  



> It seems to me they also gave you the equipment to work with.



Actually my friend, that's my stuff.


----------



## ScottsdaleImages (Aug 31, 2009)

I read all the advice, and to me everyone missed one key element to a good portrait. Yes, I agree, decent equipment is important, lighting is important, and so is confidence in your ability. BUT, no one mentioned creating the expression on the subject. And thats a talent. Esp if you are talking retail. high-volume. If you can create good expressions in your subject, the other aspects are often overlooked. And you will make a sale of your images. 
I spent 4 years working for high volume photo companies, Fraternal Composite Service, the nations leading Fraternity/Sorority Composite creater, where I photographed over 40,000 people in 3 yrs. I won awards for creating great expressions because thats what sold the photo. I then spent another yr at Olan Mills and recieved another award for expressions. The sales people loved my images, because the subjects looked great and the parents bought the images.

You can have basic equipment and simple lighting, a strong confidence in your ability and a talent at making people smile and capturing it and you can make a nice living.


----------



## skieur (Aug 31, 2009)

The key to great portraiture is simple.  Use your skill to flatter the subject, photographically.

skieur


----------



## Sw1tchFX (Aug 31, 2009)

I think the key to a good portrait is a connection between the viewer and the subject.

You can light it however you want, and it can be the most amazing light in the universe, but if the picture doesn't tell the viewer anything, it fails. 

You can use a large format camera, a hasselblad, FX, DX, 4/3rds, or a compact/disposable, great portraits can be made with any. Henri Cartier-Bresson _rarely_ used anything but a 50mm on his 35mm and we all know who he is.


The key is connection, look in a Natl. Geographic, alot of the portraits are poorly lit, on DX cameras with tons of noise or grain, but they're good portraits because the viewer can connect with the subjects.


----------



## Mike_E (Sep 1, 2009)

Their feet or their butts.  

Whichever they are putting their weight on.

Just like a photography career- just like life- the first thing you have to have is a good foundation, after that everything else falls into place.


----------

