# bride isnt happy with wedding album despite having proofs!



## gavrd1 (Jul 28, 2011)

hi everyone

have got a bit of an issue here.

photographed a wedding over a year ago, despite a lot of polite chasing up they didnt choose their album til this may. they paid for a 30 page storybook album but chose so many images for it then it would be too cramped so i upgraded them for free to a 40 page one which i would usually charge £100 extra for. i also froze the increase in album price over the year as goodwill too.

they received proofs of each of the pages before printing and ok'd them, along with a proof book they had of all the images and the fact the images were also online for the full year with a zoom facility for close up viewing.

they now claim that there are a couple of eyes shut on on a couple of pages, one is where she is looking down at the rings anyway so is very hard to tell with purposely looking as it can misinterpreted as just eyes glancing down.

she is now claiming that if she'd known then she wouldnt have chosen them and despite all the proofs, reckons none of them are high enough quality to notice it. she ok'd every single page before printing and had every chance to raise queries. if think between the proof pages/proof book/internet she had every chance to check the eyes when choosing.

the lab now say they can try reprinting the pages but there is a risk that it may end up permanently damaged and require a new one purchasing if it did.

i am happy to send it back to take the risk of reprinting and pay for them if she is happy to, which she says she is. but if it is damaged i do not see why i should have to fork out for a brand new album considering all the upgrades that she has already had and the chances to raise the issue about the proofs and has ok'd them?

any thoughts? the albums arent cheap ones either!

thanks


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## behanana (Jul 28, 2011)

I would explain everything you have done for her so far and what the lab has said, tell her if it's damaged during reprint she is responsible for the new book. There comes a point in time when you have to just say I've done enough, now you have to take some responsibility.


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## johnh2005 (Jul 28, 2011)

Has she paid yet?  If so, tell her to boink herself.

Has she paid yet?  If not, do exactly as behanana above says and get your money from her.  After that, tell her to go boink herself.  I would have had her ass in court a LONG time ago and I am a very patient very understanding person.  If she has had a year to proof them, had each page to proof, and the WHOLE THING to proof and she is now upset about the final product!?!?!  She can go boink her self.

boink boink boink the nerve of some people!


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## Authorized (Jul 28, 2011)

Has she mentioned the dreaded "R" word?  refund?


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## gavrd1 (Jul 28, 2011)

hi allim looking at the exact route of behanana as shes taken a full year to look at the pics and chose the album pics and had every chance to query them if unsure. shes trying to blame the quality but i think out of the 3 proof methods theres ample to at least raise the issue.considering the fact she chose 160 images to try fit in a 30 page album ive been goodwilled to upgrade her to a 40 page one for free which id normally charge £100 more!luckily ive had the money but typically shes been complaing about spending all that (it wasnt an expensive price either) and not being happy without realising the package includes the photography and proof book etc alongside the album.she has said a few time she apologies for being a pain about it, yet then tried to blame everyone but herself. ie. even as far as the lab not raising an issue about the eyes shut. obviously in my eyes most wedding labs are there to print and colour correct etc, not analyse the photography itself! i think 2 eyes shut in over 600 pictures isnt bad going!she has threatned to take things further if need be, my thought would pretty much be that if it came to a judge would hopefully look at the cost of the package (cheapish), all the extras shes had for nothing and the fact shes had over a year to raise the issue with having access to proofs all that time and put her to some account?after all, in fact its not the quality of the album shes moaning about, its the photography within it techincally!


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## KmH (Jul 28, 2011)

Jeez!  I hope you are more professional when you make photographs, and don't take short cuts like you did to type that blob of lower case letters with no paragraphs.

That may be a tell/symptom as to why you're having trouble with a client.


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## IgsEMT (Jul 28, 2011)

BOY, does THAT sound familiar 

Has a similar episode recently, only this time clients were family members. Normally my routine is we look over the design for about 30min-1hr. During which time every spread is scrutinized. Once album is approved, clients sign off on it and off to print. If album is printed, no further chances can be made unless clients are willing to reprint at full retail price. This time around, being that it family, I'm biting the bullet and we're printing at 70(me)/30(cousin) cost price.


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## imagemaker46 (Jul 28, 2011)

Unfortunately the customer is always right, well that's the saying.........it's not what I believe.  There are issues here that go to that, the bride taking way too long to make her choices, she comes up with excuses as to why she doesn't like the photos, it may be that she was looking for a price break beyond what you gave her, she really isn't happy with the photos or she doesn't like how she looks in the photos.  The only real way to get an honest opinion on the quality of the work that you have offered is to show the photos to other people and get some feedback.  

 As this saying goes, you're only as good as your last job and people remember the bad far longer than they remember the good.  Bad reviews kill careers.


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## sandraadamson (Jul 28, 2011)

Well wow personally if she ok'd each page before printing and you have each 'ok'd page' email confirmation then I think the extra cost should be on her doorstep. I have the same process once a page is designed I send it to my client for confirmation they are satisfied and save their confirmation email for each page. If they decide once the book is printed that there is an issue then any extra costs are theirs to cover-I have that right in my contract with them. I guess I would ask you if you have a clause like that in your contract cause then you're covered. Mind you I've never had this happen to me -knock on wood.

www.sandraadamson.com www.sandraadamson.blogspot.com


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## Robin Usagani (Jul 28, 2011)

You are the artist.  Just make the damn album.  Choose whatever photos you think should be on there.  Then have them review it and make their changes.  Why would you want them to choose it beforehand?  It is like a painter and you are limited to what color to use and how much.


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## johnh2005 (Jul 28, 2011)

Schwettylens said:


> You are the artist.  Just make the damn album.  Choose whatever photos you think should be on there.  Then have them review it and make their changes.  Why would you want them to choose it beforehand?  It is like a painter and you are limited to what color to use and how much.



Maybe you should go back and actually READ his post.  He did exactly what you said.  He made the pages, let them proof it.  Made the album, let them proof it.  They are just a bunch of dishonest jerks trying to get something for free or super discounted.  These are the people that you will NEVER please.  Unless you give them the product for free.  Even then they will go and write a bad review of you.  Like I said just get your money and brush them off.  These people are NEVER good for your business.


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## gavrd1 (Jul 28, 2011)

Thanks for all the help and replies everyone. All have been really helpful - only one has'nt!

I do believe as suggested by imagemaker46 in that there is very much the fact she is trying to play on it to try and get a price reduction - despite the fact she has already had a very generous amount of free upgrades to start with. The price paid has not been over the top either.

I earn a reasonable living from photography and never had any complaints like that so far and always go as far as possible with customer service so am not too worried about one single bad review. With regards to sandraadamson and Schwettylens's useful advice I do make sure that the client OK's the proof in writing or by email first and they have every chance to query things if need be. Their images are available to them online and in a proof book also so the proof pages are not the only way they see each photo. The couples do get a choice of either myself picking their images to use in the album and then designing it, or they can pick the ones they want to use and then let me lay them out.

I believe that I've gone to plenty lengths of reason to help resolve this problem by offering to pay for reprinting alongside alternatives of similar value if need be. Like behanana says, she has to take some responsibilty for it and cannot try to claim a full refund for just a couple of page in an album she is unhappy about when the price paid is for more than just the album. After all, in most industries there is no comeback on bespoke products if the client changes their mind after OKing proofs.

Finally, KmH please grow up. I think you will notice that this has been nicely laid out in paragraphs as was my opening post. The only reason my other post was laid out like that was due to the site removing all the paragraph breaks for an unknown reason when I submitted it and I was very short of time to be able to alter it afterwards. I do have a degree so I'm not totally illiterate and suggest that if you were to comment on the subject, then you provide some useful comments like everyone else has! Not nit-picking which is probably all you are capable of.

Thanks to all!


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## Virtuosos (Jul 29, 2011)

Yeah, end of the line for her. After a certain point (like everyone else has mentioned), it gets to be too much bull. Tell her whats up with changing the pictures, but *DO NOT* offer to drop the price/refund/whatever. She lost that right a long time ago.


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## Robin Usagani (Jul 29, 2011)

No... maybe you didnt read his post.

*"photographed a wedding over a year ago, despite a lot of polite chasing up they didnt choose their album til this may. they paid for a 30 page storybook album but chose so many images for it then it would be too cramped so i upgraded them for free to a 40 page one which i would usually charge £100 extra for. i also froze the increase in album price over the year as goodwill too."

*Clients have no idea what looks good and need your guidance.  Just make the album to however pages they want then let them comment it.  Asking them what photos to put is NEVER a good idea and you will end up with an ugly album.  They may add a few more pages and you get more money.  Or they will change a few photos.  Does that make sense?




johnh2005 said:


> Schwettylens said:
> 
> 
> > You are the artist.  Just make the damn album.  Choose whatever photos you think should be on there.  Then have them review it and make their changes.  Why would you want them to choose it beforehand?  It is like a painter and you are limited to what color to use and how much.
> ...


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## gavrd1 (Jul 29, 2011)

re Schwettylens

I do see your point to an extent, however the thing to realise is that not everyone has the same views of album and markets do vary from area to area. Pretty much all photographers from my local area work in the same manner. I have done many albums in the past though where I choose the best pictures and lay them out to a way that I consider artistic only for the couple only for them then to add or remove pictures and also request a change of layout with an idea that we may consider ghastly! However, they have paid the money for the package and it is their album so they are advised and the choice is up to them.

At all stages, couples are advised if there may be potential problems i.e. too many images on a page, colour clashes etc and given the choice.

Therefore I now always give couples the choice of me choosing and designing, or letting them choose the images to which I then layout in the best artistic manner that I can. again, any potential issues they are told about.

If a client would like a particular picture(s) in the album, then I always fit it in the best artistic way that I can and they then get to decide. I would rather that then say to a client "you can't have xxx image because it ruins the flow of the book".

The couple in this case as always, were warned that excessive number of pictures can ruin the creativeness a bit yet they still chose it so I thought an upgrade in pages was a goodwill thing to do. After all, the issue about this is'nt the fact she did'nt like the art or layout of it - it's the fact she moaning about a single image she chose because did'nt study the original images properly when choosing them (she had a year!) or raise any issues along the way!


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## Robin Usagani (Jul 29, 2011)

I would really consider my advice next time.  It will save you a headache.  Yes, I have done an album before where the bride picked the photos.  It sucked.  Yes theoratically speaking you can design the whole thing and the bride hates it and want a redo where she choose the photos, but that almost never happens unless the design is just bad and doesnt follow the sample album.  Usually they only have minor changes (she doesnt like the way she looks on one shot and rather have another frame).  Easy breezy.. easy money.


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## gavrd1 (Jul 29, 2011)

hi schwettylens

I think the thing to remember is all clients are different and that can also be especially down to the fact that you are in the USA and I am in England where people have different views and habits, added to the the fact that our approach to weddings and style photography and albums here may vary greatly from yours.

Of the two ways of doing it yes I have done both, and for me the more successful way for my clients has been to let them choose the content and let me design it around that. I have also had success with choosing and deciding myself for them but the vast majority have preferred to choose the images they want.

After all, it is their album and so it's up to them which images they would like in it that makes them happy as they are the one's who will be looking at it for the next so many years, not me! Whether it is what I would consider unpleasing to the eye or not!

My job is to design and produce the album pages in the best flowing manner possible for them. Whichever way they chose to go about it, I always keep in touch and advise them on any possible issues that may arise!

I'm not saying either of us is wrong with our style, but there are many factors as to why some ways work better for some people than others!


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## imagemaker46 (Jul 30, 2011)

gavrd1, you do raise the point how things are different betwen the US and the UK, I think what happens on this forum and probably on most is that things really are different between countries.  I am in Canada which of course should be very similar to the US as we are the closest relatives and yet in so many social, political and even some moral issues we are vastly different.  Photographers around the world all share a common thread, but how they work, restrictions, laws etc. dictate how they do business, or even how they socially interact with clients.  What works in one country, may not work in another, people forget that when they offer up opinions on how to conduct business.  What they say is not wrong, it is only what they know, and unless they have international experience working as a photographer it is difficult at times to understand how things work outside their own country.


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## bennielou (Aug 1, 2011)

I let my client choose the photos, and then I design the album and put the mock up online for them to view prior to ordering.  If they choose badly, I will call them and explain why I don't think the photos will work.  I also limit them to a certain number of photos.

However, once I get the mock up done, I require a written permission to order the album.  Once I receive that, and order the album, if they don't like it, sorry to say but they are stuck with it.  After all, I used photos that THEY requested, built the album, offered them an overall edit, possibly rebuilt, and have a "go ahead" order.

Basically, I put the plate on their table.


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## gavrd1 (Aug 3, 2011)

Hi Bennielou

Thanks for the reply, how you say you done it is pretty much the same way and procedure that I do too which is why I have a similar view!

And also thanks Imagemaker46 too, i think there is a definate geographical different between areas. Especially country to country as where I live there is a big difference in the customer market just 40 miles away!

On a good note though, I did arrange to collect the album from the client this week to send the album back to the lab to analyse the risk if it certain pages were to be reprinted. However, before doing so she has been in touch and says she is willing to leave the album as it is and accept my offer of a disc of images instead!

Thanks all


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