# Sync Speeds



## BuS_RiDeR (Oct 30, 2011)

This is related to THIS THREAD, but I did't want to hi-jack that thread...

I own a pair of Bowen's Gemini 400ws monolights... "the" recommended sync speed is 1/250 second. 

I've been thinking about adding a speedlight to the mix to use as a third light source. Yet all the things I've read, refer to the sync speed being only 1/200sec for speedlighta.

Question: Is the sync speed determined by the camera or the lights? Will a speedlight work with monolights?


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## Kerbouchard (Oct 30, 2011)

A speedlight will work with strobes.  As far as the sync speed, it's determined by the shutter and how long the entire sensor is exposed to the light source.  With faster shutter speeds, 1/250th or faster, the entire sensor is never exposed at the same time.  Part of the shutter is closing before the other has opened.

There are a few other considerations when referring to remote flash.  If there is a time delay when triggering the flash, that tightens the window a bit.  Generally, 1/200th of a second is safe.  1/250th of a second can be a bit iffy based on time delays inherrent in the circuitry.

There is also a high speed sync(for speedlights) where the flash can fire at a lower overall power, but it will fire several times to properly expose the entire sensor.


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## Trever1t (Oct 30, 2011)

to simplify. Sync speed is set by your camera body.


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## BuS_RiDeR (Oct 30, 2011)

Thanks. Glad to know I was on the right track.


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## Village Idiot (Oct 31, 2011)

And if you're using radio triggers, low batteries or even the triggers themselves and mess with the x sync of a camera. Some people have had to shoot at 1/160 or lower to avoid the black bar with cheap radio triggers.

You can also cheat the x sync. If you need a bit less ambient, you can go above your x sync and shoot so the edge of the frame that's affected by the black bar is in a position that can be cropped out or hidden in an area that's not being exposed by the flash. This can help you squeeze every last bit out of what you have then the limit isn't enough for you.


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## bazooka (Oct 31, 2011)

Also, what your camera is capable of is not necassarily the same speed that another identical model is capable of.  The sync speed given in the manual is a close approximation.  Strobist: Know Your Sync


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## Derrel (Oct 31, 2011)

At times, with certain cameras, the maximum synch speed is determined by HOW the flash is connected to the camera, such as with a PC connection cord, or with the flash in the hot shoe. Some older cameras, mostly Nikon and Sony models, usually older ones like the D70 and D40 for example and multiple of the older, lower-end Sony d-slr models) can synch with "regular flash", either speedlight or Alien Bee, at ridiculously high shutter speeds, like 1/4000 to even 1/8000 second if the flash is connected to the camera using a PC cord, and the flash is NOT in the hotshoe. (Use the Nikon AS-15 hotshoe-to-PC outlet device for example).

The sync speed is determined mostly by the camera; mostly by the type of shutter the camera uses. There are some ways to get slightly faster synch speeds, however, like using the newest triggers from the PocketWizard people, that mess around with the precise time delay between flash firing and shutter speed to "boost" synch speeds around one full f/stop for "most" cameras.

Paul C. Buff himself conducted a lot of experiments on using his Alien Bees studio flashes hooked up directly to cameras using a PC connection cord, and was able to get pretty good, high flash power using the AB's and the Nikon D40, at speeds up to 1/4000 second. It's kind of a combination of the shutter type used in the D40, and the ramp-up and the tailing-off time of the Alien Bee flash bursts, plus the direct, hard-wired PC cord connection.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Oct 31, 2011)

Yeah, sux when i use remote triggers the max sync speed I can get from my D7000 without bottom of pic dark using Vivitar 285's, and them set to "max" is 1/200th.

 But I know of a canon5D MkII owner that gets 1/160th of a sec max off cam.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Oct 31, 2011)

edit off double post


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## BuS_RiDeR (Oct 31, 2011)

Thanks all... I appreciate the input.

So... if I understand correctly, its a crap shoot? Trial and error to determine the  optimal sync speed.

Would I be better off to save my pennies until I can afford a third matching monolight for my kit? Bah. Gonna have to put off my macro lens a bit longer.


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## Kerbouchard (Oct 31, 2011)

BuS_RiDeR said:


> Thanks all... I appreciate the input.
> 
> So... if I understand correctly, its a crap shoot? Trial and error to determine the optimal sync speed.
> 
> Would I be better off to save my pennies until I can afford a third matching monolight for my kit? Bah. Gonna have to put off my macro lens a bit longer.



Personally, I wouldn't.  A good speedlight is, IMO, a must have.  Opens up a ton of options for when you just want to throw it on the hot shoe and use bounce flash.  Honestly, after a DSLR and lens purchase, I figure the next best purchase for just about anybody is a speedlight.


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## BuS_RiDeR (Oct 31, 2011)

Kerbouchard said:


> ... Personally, I wouldn't.  A good speedlight is, IMO, a must have.  Opens up a ton of options for when you just want to throw it on the hot shoe and use bounce flash.  Honestly, after a DSLR and lens purchase, I figure the next best purchase for just about anybody is a speedlight.



I have an old Vivitar 728AFC that I had when I used to shoot 35mm in the 80's and 90's... I suppose I could probably throw it into the mix using a remote trigger of some sort (I don't dare try it on my 50D). Opimioms? Would it make an ok OCF?


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## Kerbouchard (Oct 31, 2011)

For Canon, I was thinking more like the 430ex or 580ex.  I'm sure your Vivitar with a remote trigger will be fine for shots where you can set up the lighting and have plenty of time.  

I was thinking more of on the go type shooting where a speedlight really comes into it's own.  Honestly, I couldn't even imagine how much it would set me back in just family type photos not having a speedlight available.  The ability to throw it on the hot shoe, set it to TTL, and bounce it off a wall or a celing, is, to me, invaluable.  Worth every penny.

Shooting events/weddings, well, it's an absolute necessity.


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## dots (Oct 31, 2011)

Yea Nikon D1 series. Which are the only cameras i've read that can go so high (e.g 1/16000 with sync cord on the D1x). D70 lacks sync terminal and stops at 1/500..although i got a 1/4000 using the hotshoe earlier and dont know how. Haven't been able to repeat it again yet. possibly the flash wasn't secured locked into the shoe which allowed me to override the 1/500.

D70s has a sync terminal?



Derrel said:


> At times, with certain cameras, the maximum synch speed is determined by HOW the flash is connected to the camera, such as with a PC connection cord, or with the flash in the hot shoe. Some older cameras, mostly Nikon and Sony models, usually older ones like the D70 and D40 for example and multiple of the older, lower-end Sony d-slr models) can synch with "regular flash", either speedlight or Alien Bee, at ridiculously high shutter speeds, like 1/4000 to even 1/8000 second if the flash is connected to the camera using a PC cord, and the flash is NOT in the hotshoe. (Use the Nikon AS-15 hotshoe-to-PC outlet device for example).
> 
> The sync speed is determined mostly by the camera; mostly by the type of shutter the camera uses. There are some ways to get slightly faster synch speeds, however, like using the newest triggers from the PocketWizard people, that mess around with the precise time delay between flash firing and shutter speed to "boost" synch speeds around one full f/stop for "most" cameras.
> 
> Paul C. Buff himself conducted a lot of experiments on using his Alien Bees studio flashes hooked up directly to cameras using a PC connection cord, and was able to get pretty good, high flash power using the AB's and the Nikon D40, at speeds up to 1/4000 second. It's kind of a combination of the shutter type used in the D40, and the ramp-up and the tailing-off time of the Alien Bee flash bursts, plus the direct, hard-wired PC cord connection.









ISO400 F6.3 1/4000 D70 (flash in shoe, A mode)  ..EXIF "flash did not fire".


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## Village Idiot (Nov 1, 2011)

You have the make the camera think the flash isn't in the shoe. Using a radio trigger or some other device that just fires when the camera does and doesn't pass information between the camera and the flash is what's needed.


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## dots (Nov 1, 2011)

Yes. AS-15 adaptor i think it's called for D70.


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