# Looking for legal advice regarding a project I shot for an international brand



## Mabou2 (Feb 2, 2022)

Hi All,

I had a shoot in 2017 for a well-known internationally sold brand.  39 products, and when they requested a cost estimate, they asked for a buyout for each image.  After I gave them the estimate for the shoot and included the buyout (for a good deal) of only $600 per image on top of the cost of the shoot, they replied that they didn't want to spend that much money and told me the images will only be used for web and print ads, they won't be using the images for product packaging, and since the images I am shooting are just supplementary to the original "hero" images that were already shot by another photographer, they wanted to save cash.   So I created a second estimate based on hours for a much lower price ($23,000 less).

Well, it turns out they not only used the images on ALL of 39 of their product packaging in the US, they continue to use those images to this day on their packaging both domestically and internationally. 

Unfortunately, since I thought this was a one-off shoot for just a couple days work, I didn't create an iron clad contract.  The only "paper trail" I have at this point is the original cost estimate with the Buyout cost specified, as well as the second cost estimate days later for just the cost of the shoot.

No need to spam your replies with what an idiot I was for being so lax in the business side of things, I learned that lesson the hard way.  

The question I have is, do you think I might have any sort of recourse at this point?


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## smoke665 (Feb 2, 2022)

A wise Business Law Professor once said if it isn't spelled out within the four corners of your contract it doesn't exist. However if you don't have paperwork granting them an unrestricted release, then neither do they, unless you signed something without knowing. The four corners rule works both ways. It won't cost you to write a demand letter.


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## weepete (Feb 2, 2022)

I think you could well have a case, but I'm not a lawyer, and I don't know the ins and outs of the legal system where you are.

Either way it would be worth speaking to an actual lawyer about it, as even if you don't have quite enough to make a solid case in court, it may well be enough to get some kind of settlement. 

It may be that you have enough proof with what you've got, but you really need advice from someone that's qualified to make that call.


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## mrca (Feb 3, 2022)

The first estimate wasn't signed and no written counter offer so it proves nothing.  Hey, lesson learned.  I did something similar on a minor shoot I did as a favor that turned out to be the typical client who wants more and more. Never again, I add a paragraph or two to spell out EXACTLY what they get and EXACTLY what any additional work costs.   Now if they ask I just say, let me look at the contract to see what the charges would be.   It says I would charge X, would you like to send another contract for the additional charges.  Funny how the requests go away.   Do you think they would try that getting their car serviced?  I like to think what I give them is more meaningful, treasured and long lasting  than a tune up.  If they ask for free, i ask how many times their boss asked them to work for free and they did.


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## smoke665 (Feb 3, 2022)

@mrca my previous business experience required scanning and approving upwards of a couple dozen contracts per day, non-photography, but the basics of contract language are the same, and after awhile you learn that each industry has some specific "gotcha language" to look out for.  Lawsuits cost money and take time, as a rule companies in the business of buying and using any outside services don't go out of their way to create problems for themselves down the road. However mistakes do happen, files get shifted around through multiple hands, and sometimes your vendors use subcontractors.  I believe there's some information on this has been shared. 

I would never have entered into a contractual agreement for service without a written agreement on the terms. If the vendor didn't have one, then we used my company contract (which was swayed to my advantage). The OP mentions "another" photographer, was the OP a second shooter working under the "other" photographer. If so what sort of contract did the "other" photographer have with the client. I just can't believe the company didn't have itself protected somewhere along the line. 

As Weepete said above, if you really feel you have a case, best to contact an attorney familiar with this area for an evaluation.


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## Rickbb (Feb 5, 2022)

Definitely need to consult with a lawyer, don’t go for an “ambulance chaser”, (no offense to any of you lawyers), get one that will provide solid advise.

As someone that’s been on the other end of patent/copyright suits, (not me, the company), you could very well have a valid complaint.


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