# My first wedding consultation....



## Nessy024 (Feb 10, 2012)

Hey everyone im meeting my first client tomorrow. They are perfectly aware I have no experince shooting a wedding. But they love my pictures. I have full confidence in myself to shoot a wedding though. I dont have any products to show or anything but I was wondering what are some things to talk about during the consultation? Any advice?


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## cgipson1 (Feb 10, 2012)

Do you have insurance? a business license, tax id, contracts, release forms, adequate equipment, adequate knowledge? Any of these things? 

Please post some shots.....


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## Big Mike (Feb 10, 2012)

Talk about and walk through your contract for one.


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## Nessy024 (Feb 10, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> Do you have insurance? a business license, tax id, contracts, release forms, adequate equipment, adequate knowledge? Any of these things? Please post some shots.....


I have all of that except insurance. You can see my portfolio at vanessajulie.com.


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## QuadTap (Feb 10, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> Do you have insurance? a business license, tax id, contracts, release forms, adequate equipment, adequate knowledge? Any of these things?
> 
> Please post some shots.....



yikes thats is a lot of red tape !


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## jowensphoto (Feb 10, 2012)

No wedding advice, but a tip for your website: I'd change the first image that appears on the homepage slideshow. It does nothing to your advantage. IMHO, if I were a potential client, that image alone would stop me from inquiring further.


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## KmH (Feb 10, 2012)

From one of the forum moderators in this thread http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...forum/272413-critique-galleries-now-open.html:



> Furthermore I'd like to strongly recommend that people posting beginner questions regarding Photography Businesses should be "Shop Talk" in the business section, not the beginners section up here.
> The Business District



Then in this thread - http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...-forum/257684-notice-use-beginners-forum.html


> In addition I would like to remind members who are working photographers (be you highly experienced or beginners in the photography working world) that you should be posting all relevant threads/subjects on professional work in the following site subsection
> The Business District


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## cgipson1 (Feb 10, 2012)

I don't think you are ready to shoot weddings... but if the bride knows that you lack experience, and doesn't want pro quality work.. then I wish you luck! 

I see a lot of soft photos, White balance issues, and poor composition on your site! Not trying to be rude.. but I would suggest shooting as a second shooter for an experienced pro for at least a year or two.. and see how it goes.

Your site is also very slow... I have a very fast internet connection... and I got tired of waiting.


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## The_Traveler (Feb 10, 2012)

Some nice shots in your portfolio but also some not-so-nice.
It doesn't seem that your portfolio is aimed at selling your business stuff.


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## jowensphoto (Feb 10, 2012)

The_Traveler said:


> Some nice shots in your portfolio but also some not-so-nice.
> It doesn't seem that your portfolio is aimed at selling your business stuff.



Exactly what I was trying to say. A website should only be the best of your best work. The ability to self edit is so very important; it's also one of the hardest things to do.


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## Nessy024 (Feb 10, 2012)

Well i do edit each photo to the full....they are my favorites and my clients are very happy with them...can you tell me a photo in particular


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## Bossy (Feb 10, 2012)

Don't shoot your first wedding for someone you don't know. Start out slow, unofficially second shoot for a friend (who has a hired photographer), second shoot for a *real* photographer, shoot other events first. If you screw up a wedding, it will not only likely be your last because that person will smear your name like peanut butter on bread, but it will also literally RUIN a very expensive and special day for someone. ​


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## Bossy (Feb 10, 2012)

Nessy024 said:


> Well i do edit each photo to the full....they are my favorites and my clients are very happy with them...can you tell me a photo in particular


The orange baby is a good start.​


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## cgipson1 (Feb 10, 2012)

Nessy024 said:


> Well i do edit each photo to the full....they are my favorites and my clients are very happy with them...can you tell me a photo in particular



Nessy... if you can't look at your photos and tell which ones are less than technically perfect....   you are definitely not ready to shoot as a professional....


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## cgipson1 (Feb 10, 2012)

Bossy said:


> Don't shoot your first wedding for someone you don't know. Start out slow, unofficially second shoot for a friend (who has a hired photographer), second shoot for a *real* photographer, shoot other events first. If you screw up a wedding, it will not only likely be your last because that person will smear your name like peanut butter on bread, but it will also literally RUIN a very expensive and special day for someone.



Not to mention.. SUE the hell out of you!


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## Nessy024 (Feb 10, 2012)

And what do you mean by aiming to my "business stuff".  Willing to learn anything new!


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## tirediron (Feb 10, 2012)

The consulation is every bit as important as the event, and for a wedding, especially so.  The first thing is to determine what the bride and groom would like as an end-product.  Ensure that there is a clear understanding between you and them as to what is expected and what will be delivered.  This must also be VERY clearly spelled out in your contract.  

Ensure that you know exactly when and where you are expected to be, and for how long.  Ask for a list of 'must have' shots and ensure (in the case of people) you know who the subjects are.  If this is a church wedding, you will also have to meet with the deacon/pastor to discuss what is and is not allowed within the church before, during and after the ceremony.  

Discuss locations for the 'formals' if desired and as well as an alternate (Murphy's Law is always at work).  Ensure timings are reasonable.  Brides & grooms often think that formals for 20 can be completed in fifteen minutes.  I generally give them a time estimate of twice what I think I will need hoping to get at least half of what I want.

If possible, have them bring the Maid/Matron of Honour or get her contact info as well as that of the wedding planner if there is one.  You'll need help from both of these people to locate family members, "herd the cats" and so forth.  

A few tips:  Vist each venue ahead of time, at about the time you'll be there to shoot to get an idea of the light and conditions.  Note parking locations and ensure you have sufficient change for meters/parking fees.  Know how long it will take to get from 'A' to 'B' to 'C' etc.  Make sure you have a list of cell #s for all the key players.

MOST IMPORANTLY:  Reveiw the contract, get it signed and GET THEIR DEPOSIT! 

Good luck!


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## Nessy024 (Feb 10, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> Nessy024 said:
> 
> 
> > Well i do edit each photo to the full....they are my favorites and my clients are very happy with them...can you tell me a photo in particular
> ...


Cgipson whats ypur website so i can see what a professional looks like....and you being a professional photographer dosent give you the right to be a professional jackass on someone who only want to learn! Great thanks for your opinion though!


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## tirediron (Feb 10, 2012)

Hmmm... for some reason your images weren't displaying at first.  Now that I've seen them, like the others, I have some concerns.  You have some very artisically creative images, but almost all of them have technical issues ranging from moderate to severe.  At a minimum, I would strongly recommend a LOT more practice with your lighting before the event.


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## tirediron (Feb 10, 2012)

Nessy024 said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> > Nessy024 said:
> ...


Cool your jets! That was NOT a jackass comment, but a statement of fact.


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## cgipson1 (Feb 10, 2012)

Nessy024 said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> > Nessy024 said:
> ...



I am just being honest! Sorry you don't like the answer! If you can't tell a good shot from a bad shot.. how can you possibly deliver a quality product? 

I quit shooting as a pro back in the late 80's... just shoot for fun now....


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## DiskoJoe (Feb 10, 2012)

I think you could be ready for it depending on the client and how big the wedding is. You may want to ask around with photog friends if anyone wants to be your second and has nice zoom. You need a partner. It will make somethings easier like the ceremony, VERY important, and taking pictures of guest afterwards at the reception. Read this thread: http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/professional-gallery/20069-hot-tips-wedding-photography.html. Its a very good read. Print the checklist! Use the checklist! Ask where the events will be held and who is in charge of the places.


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## Nessy024 (Feb 10, 2012)

Ok well im really trying to learn. I only started. 6 months ago and taught myself everything so far. I just invested in a 50mm 1.4 which should help with my lighting. But i dont know any other way to learn. :/


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## Nessy024 (Feb 10, 2012)

Thank you so much disko! So great! Ive gained a little bit of my confidence back! Lol


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## Bossy (Feb 10, 2012)

Nessy024 said:


> Ok well im really trying to learn. I only started. 6 months ago and taught myself everything so far. I just invested in a 50mm 1.4 which should help with my lighting. But i dont know any other way to learn. :/


 ​


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## cgipson1 (Feb 10, 2012)

Nessy.. what equipment do you have?


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## DiskoJoe (Feb 10, 2012)

Nessy024 said:


> Thank you so much disko! So great! Ive gained a little bit of my confidence back! Lol



Do you have a 70-200 f2.8 zoom? if not you will need to rent or borrow one. You will not get intimate ceremony shots without this.

How about you just list your full equipment list?


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## orljustin (Feb 10, 2012)

Nessy024 said:


> Ok well im really trying to learn. I only started. 6 months ago and taught myself everything so far. I just invested in a 50mm 1.4 which should help with my lighting. But i dont know any other way to learn. :/



Sigh.  "help with my lighting" ?  Not really?  It may help you to get shots in the low lighting that is already there, but that certainly isn't "your" lighting.


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## momo3boys (Feb 10, 2012)

DiskoJoe said:
			
		

> Do you have a 70-200 f2.8 zoom? if not you will need to rent or borrow one. You will not get intimate ceremony shots without this.
> 
> How about you just list your full equipment list?



You've gotten some really great advice from everyone. My first weddings were as a second photographer and it has helped me immensely.  The zoom lens is a MUST but also a wide angle for pictures of the dance floor and guests at the tables. I can't stress enough how beneficial being a a second shooter is. A wedding is a lot more work than you think.


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## DiskoJoe (Feb 10, 2012)

^^^^

wide angle is good for family shots with 4 or more people. This will happen.


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## IgsEMT (Feb 10, 2012)

Nessy024 said:


> Ok well im really trying to learn. I only started. 6 months ago and taught myself everything so far. I just invested in a 50mm 1.4 which should help with my lighting. But i dont know any other way to learn. :/


 50 1.4 would do squat for your lighting, if there's no light to work with.

But to answer the question posed....


> Hey everyone im meeting my first client tomorrow. They are perfectly  aware I have no experince shooting a wedding. But they love my pictures.  I have full confidence in myself to shoot a wedding though. I dont have  any products to show or anything but I was wondering what are some  things to talk about during the consultation? Any advice?


First and foremost, clients - ESPECIALLY IN THIS CASE,have to be aware what they are getting into. 
Find out what they are looking for (proofs, images on a disk, albums, etc etc etc). Find out their expectations.
Timeline: where's the event taking place, number of locations. Give your self time for individuals of the bride, individuals of the groom, families, extended families, etc.
Payment schedule. 
Turn around time.
CONTRACT. Even the crappiest contract is still a contract.

On a personal note, few weeks ago I was hired by another photographer to shoot a wedding. It turned out that the photographer who hired me was trying to get into the business himself and hired someone else (me) to be the primary shooter while he was my second. I didn't know anything of that until the morning of the wedding when I showed up at the bride's house and this guy was there working with her. Mind you, I never met him, only spoke on the phone several times. After he explained to me what was happening, we ended up doing what needed to be done to give these people the product they deserved. The only *bad *thing about that job, as with most weddings I do, is that its for another studio and I can't display it, BUT its a small price to pay for potential networking. Before going into the wedding, don't forget you need backup gear!
Good Luck


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## MReid (Feb 10, 2012)

I will try to be nice:
At 6 months experience you don't know enough to know what you don't know.

Weddings are pressure cookers and if you don't know your equipment back and forth without even having to think about it....well things can go very wrong in a hurry....also equipment will break, or stop functioning for a multitude of reasons, you need to be able to react and get back on track in seconds.

Not to mention all the time management and people skills that are required...you can't just jump into it. Some people do and get lucky...some people aren't as lucky.

Do yourself a favor and study and practice A LOT for another year, then start slow with portraits. 

I speak from experience:
My second wedding, I was shooting the formals in the church as the sun was going down. It was getting darker and darker and I didn't know enough to figure out how to adjust the flash and ambient adjustments so the pictures came out SO dark.
Later discovered I did not have my camera/flash settings set up how I though they were, and did not know enough to be able to tell the difference.

My fourth wedding, 30 seconds before the bride came down the aisle my camera stopped working...just stopped. I sprinted out to my car and grabbed my backup camera (wrong place for it) and got back just as the bride started down the aisle.
Later when my brain was not in panic mode, discovered the lens had come loose and a 1/4 turn would have clicked it back into place.

These stories occurred  over 100 weddings ago and thankfully I look back on them today with just a fraction of the terror I felt at the time.


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## CCericola (Feb 10, 2012)

Please get insurance ASAP. Not only does it protect you, some venues will not let you shoot weddings there without it. I would NEVER even think about shooting a wedding on my own without at least a 1million dollar liability policy. I have 2m + 50K in equipment coverage for a little over $300 a year.


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## Robin Usagani (Feb 10, 2012)

No guts no glory!


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## DiskoJoe (Feb 10, 2012)

CCericola said:


> Please get insurance ASAP. Not only does it protect you, some venues will not let you shoot weddings there without it. I would NEVER even think about shooting a wedding on my own without at least a 1million dollar liability policy. I have 2m + 50K in equipment coverage for a little over $300 a year.



Really? Thats not a bad deal. (mentally noted)


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## lapequesalsera (Feb 10, 2012)

Vanessa, first of all, don't let anybody tell you that you can't do anything, not just photography but in general, I made a quick visit to your site and for 6 months I think there are some hood shoots there, practice a lot so you can get better everyday and when you look back at some of those images in your website you will be able to know what you could have done better.

I have zero experience in weddings, but it's definitely not a 2 hr portrait session, I suggest visiting the venues before the day so you can get an idea of the views/ lighting, etc... Are you making a good profit our of it? I suggest helping out these people by not overcharging, you are going to get a good experience out of this wedding and that should be plenty of payment.

Good luck!


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## KmH (Feb 10, 2012)

Nessy024 said:


> ....and my clients are very happy with them...


Take into account that your clients have an emotional involvement with the photos that makes them unreliable as judges.


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## KmH (Feb 10, 2012)

Nessy024 said:


> and you being a professional photographer dosent give you the right to be a professional jackass on someone who only want to learn! Great thanks for your opinion though!


Really. Poor. Form. :thumbdown:


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## The_Traveler (Feb 10, 2012)

Nessy024 said:


> and you being a professional photographer dosent give you the right to be a professional jackass on someone who only want to learn! Great thanks for your opinion though!



Are you sure?
I thought it did, for sure.


But his remarks were actually not jackass-y but meant truthfully.
You need to prune many of your images and finish the ones you keep.

I, on the other hand, am totally not a professional and that may allow me to be a jackass.
I  just checked with my wife and she says that not only am I allowed, it is essentially compulsory.

She just yelled in and said that believes it is a genetic thing.


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## littlefish (Feb 10, 2012)

okay,  I'm new here, but not to a photography forum,  I checked out your website.  I did notice that you started it six months ago.  Kudo's to you.  My problems is I find it hard to believe that you picked up a camera for the first time six months ago.  That you instantly knew how to take pictures and edited them.  With that you were immediately able to start your own website.  With-in what.....?  Days....hours?   I'm not buying it.  You have been shooting pictures for more then six months.  Your photo's show a range of seasons, locations and I find it hard to believe that you took all of those pictures during the fall and winter of this pass year. 

That being said,  I think you are a very talented person.  It most likely would not be to your advantage to shoot a wedding yet.  As has already been mention, being an assistance to someone who has shots many, many wedding would be to your advantage.  You will learn a lot.

You have excellent potental,  but you are not ready yet.  Unless as you suggested in your first statement, you have full confidence in your ablitiy to go into something you have never done before.  Which I might add is usually one of the most memrable and important days of a couple's life.  So I'm suggesting you reconsider your "full confidence",  because if you mess up,  there is not second chance.  and you will be hated and possible sued.


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## Nessy024 (Feb 11, 2012)

littlefish said:


> okay,  I'm new here, but not to a photography forum,  I checked out your website.  I did notice that you started it six months ago.  Kudo's to you.  My problems is I find it hard to believe that you picked up a camera for the first time six months ago.  That you instantly knew how to take pictures and edited them.  With that you were immediately able to start your own website.  With-in what.....?  Days....hours?   I'm not buying it.  You have been shooting pictures for more then six months.  Your photo's show a range of seasons, locations and I find it hard to believe that you took all of those pictures during the fall and winter of this pass year.
> 
> That being said,  I think you are a very talented person.  It most likely would not be to your advantage to shoot a wedding yet.  As has already been mention, being an assistance to someone who has shots many, many wedding would be to your advantage.  You will learn a lot.
> 
> You have excellent potental,  but you are not ready yet.  Unless as you suggested in your first statement, you have full confidence in your ablitiy to go into something you have never done before.  Which I might add is usually one of the most memrable and important days of a couple's life.  So I'm suggesting you reconsider your "full confidence",  because if you mess up,  there is not second chance.  and you will be hated and possible sued.



i live in south florida with no seasons lol but your advice is great! thank you little fish! im going ot meet them now and go over everything you guys said!


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## GlassSlinger (Feb 12, 2012)

Well, how'd it go?


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## rexbobcat (Feb 12, 2012)

"For outdoor portraits, it's recommend early in the morning to avoid harsh lighting."

This makes me worry.


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## raider (Feb 13, 2012)

you're a business owner... hire someone that knows what they're doing!


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## CCericola (Feb 13, 2012)

rexbobcat said:


> "For outdoor portraits, it's recommend early in the morning to avoid harsh lighting."
> 
> This makes me worry.



Just a quick side note. Unfortunately the photographer does not get to have input as to the time of the ceremony. However, with the proper training, experience and equipment, a professional can work with less than ideal lighting situations.


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## Tee (Feb 13, 2012)

jowensphoto said:


> No wedding advice, but a tip for your website: I'd change the first image that appears on the homepage slideshow. It does nothing to your advantage. IMHO, if I were a potential client, that image alone would stop me from inquiring further.



The couple at the bar?  That's her best shot.  Keep it.  In fact it looks so much better than the rest I almost wondered if that image was lifted.

I say go for it.  They know what your portfolio looks like.  What do you have to lose?


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## Balmiesgirl (Feb 14, 2012)

First, weddings are hard! It's a lot of responsibility! If you screw it up... There are no do overs! I agree with those that suggest second shooting. It's way more fun, little to no pressure and a good way to get experience with different lighting and other situations. 
Second,  Know your equipment inside out!!!! There is no time to fumble with settings etc.  
Third, be HONEST! About your lack of skills, your lack of insurance, etc.... Don't pretend you have lots of experience if you don't. There are some awesome clients out there who are willing to risk it and have faith in you as long as you ate honest.i got first wedding because the bride loved my other work. My natural, clean style appealed to her and she fell in love with a photo I had of a model in a sunflower field. I was honest about my experience only bring a second shooter and gave them an awesome deal. I got insurance, hired a second shooter that I knew was awesome with group shots ( my weakness) and did a great job. From there I charged more and more until I was actually making money! 

Good luck and enjoy your first time  

Oh and don't think just cause your camera says it can go to 12,000 ISo that it's a good idea. Your pics will look like **** printed if u do!


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## One2 (Feb 14, 2012)

Interested to hear how the shoot turns out...


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