# tips for photography indoors help a beginner :)



## lawrencek328 (Dec 6, 2013)

im going to be taking pictures for my gf's sisters birthday.. nothing professional but I do want clear photos... it is going to be indoors with low lighting...any tips or tricks to get a clear picture?

canon t5i with sigma 18-35 1.8 lens .. no external flash


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## JustJazzie (Dec 6, 2013)

Have you looked Into a light scoop? I haven't tried one, but they look nifty! http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0017LNHY2/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1386361936&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX110_SY165_QL70 My camera has a bounce flash, and I find it helpful to use flash compensation at +3 or so since you'll loose some light in the process. You could also try to make something similar if you wanted.  I've seen people use "milk jug diffusers" just for some soft full.

Otherwise, I would set your ISO as high as your camera can stand (probably 800 or 1600) and then open up that wonderful aperture. Manual focus if you can, to help get them crisp.   It wouldn't hurt to shoot in raw so you can brighten them up in post if absolutely necessary.   Don't be afraid to ask if you can open the curtains or flip on some lamps either.


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## lawrencek328 (Dec 6, 2013)

thanks, my camera has the built in flash but its going to be in a hall she rented at night time.  i will take a look at the light scoop and do some research :]


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## JustJazzie (Dec 6, 2013)

lawrencek328 said:


> thanks, my camera has the built in flash but its going to be in a hall she rented at night time.  i will take a look at the light scoop and do some research :]




Ahh. You may need to scratch the lightscoop then!  The ceilings will likely be too high. There are commercial diffusers available, or you can easily rig your own. It may be your best option here since it sounds lighting is definitely going to be challenging, even at wide apertures. If you do diffused play with your flash comp and maybe dial it down to -2ish so it isn't so harsh..

I'm sure others have more ideas but from the sounds of it you're gonna need some sort of fill light.


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## Derrel (Dec 6, 2013)

As mentioned, set the ISO HIGH!!!!!!!!! Do not delude yourself into the Internet-cardinal sin, meaning excessive concern about "noise"....noise is a lot better than smeary, blurred motion and jiggly camera syndrome. CRANK the ISO up if you're stuck using a slow f/3.5~5.6 variable aperture lens. Remember too that at the shorter end of the zoom, the lens has a maximum aperture of f/3.5, while as you zoom out it drops for f/5.6 at the longer range, and is somewhere in the middle at in-between focal lengths.

Using the pop-up flash, keep in mind that at longer distances, people will get red-eye, but if you stay closer, and shoot from inside of 10 feet, red-eye is not so prevalent.


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## Juga (Dec 6, 2013)

Did you actually locate the Sigma? I wouldn't open it up fully but if you have to then so be it. But as mentioned...high ISO saying it again for good measure.


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## lawrencek328 (Dec 6, 2013)

yeah juga i got it yesterday  ... im using a 1.8 aperture lens derrel.. im in love with it.. i found the sigma on amazon and free 2 day shipping


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## Derrel (Dec 6, 2013)

Sorry, I missed that. Still, keep the ISO level high...and don't be tempted to under-expose on-site and then recover the images later in software...under-exposing just leads to increased noise. As with most fast lenses of f/1.8, the depth of field will be shallow at wide-open aperture, so perhaps consider stopping down a bit, to say f/2.8 maybe. Just keep in mind that under-exposing kills your color, and boosts noise. Shallow DOF is nice, but it can also become very tedious, very one-trick-pony after a while.

White balance has not been mentioned. It's always good to know how one's camera LCD screen looks, compared against the computer. My main camera now looks maybe 400 degrees Kelvin too warm, so if my images are too warm on the back of the camera, I know that my WB once I import the pics will be wayyyy too warm. In many locations, indoor WB is 2,900 to 3,200 degrees Kelvin. If you're shooting a ton of JPEG images, as often happens at an event, it's nice to have the white balance set appropriately. Indoors, under artificial light is the one area where MANY cameras are NOT going to give the best results in auto-WB mode, so, keep that in mind.

The ultra-fast Sigma f/1.8 zoom is probably going to become a popular "event" zoom, due to its sheer f/stop speed...it's really a nice spec'd lens! Have a great time, and enjoy the new lens.


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## lawrencek328 (Dec 6, 2013)

thank you for that.. high iso meaning 12800 or is that tooo high?


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## Derrel (Dec 6, 2013)

lawrencek328 said:


> thank you for that.. high iso meaning 12800 or is that tooo high?



Well, it depends on the location and the lighting. I would say as a rule that yes, ISO 12,800 might likely be considered too high an ISO level at, say, Macaroni Grill or another place like a Red Robbin where there is actually some "light" in the room. But, at my favorite sports bar, ISO 12,800 would be about right. By High I was thinking ISO 3,200 with a kit zoom at f/4.5 to f/5.6...

It kind of depends on the "light". For example, if you're close to a window, and it's late afternoon, and it's a nice day out, there will be a LOT more light than inside in a corner, far from any overhead lights and with zero daylight coming in. You just need to get the shutter speeds into safe hand-holding range... 1/8 second is iffy...1/15 is still iffy...1/60 is better than any speed that is slower. It depends on what you meant by "there's going to be low lighting". That can range from f/2.8 at 1/50 second at ISO 1600 down to coal-mining territory, depending on the venue.


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## lawrencek328 (Dec 6, 2013)

thanks again you guys were a great help...


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## kchoi (Dec 6, 2013)

Do your T5i got ISO12800?? I think you better test out if you can accept the noise level before going to the shoot.
Yes, noise is always better than handshake, blurry image, however, when noise level goes up to a really high level, it is still a headache.
I have used T3i before and I can't accept anything beyond ISO1600. I don't know hows T5i perform, so you better test it first.

One other tip is to shoot the people in the area that ceiling light can light up. The ceiling light or candle light or else is your only light source, make better use of them.
At the same time, try to use one light source when shoot. Mixing up different light in the shoot, especially in indoor shoot, will create horrible shadows or color on the face.

Also, try to be there 5 minutes before to try out WB temperature and best aperture and also shutter speed. If the light are not changing, you can set your camera into M mode and just shoot. If you do this, you have to keep in mind to check if the setting is changed accidentally everytime before you shoot.

Practise more and you will get better image


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## lawrencek328 (Dec 6, 2013)

thank you choi... the image quality is great upto 3200/6400 12800 is a little noisy depending on the situation


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## dsm.iv.tr (Dec 6, 2013)

One thing that (surprisingly, to me) hasn't been mentioned is the *intentional* use of underexposure for creative purposes. It's all about the light, and you have the perfect venue, with the added bonus that nobody is paying you, so once you get the shots you really want (tip: take a few moments to think about what shots might be important to you or your partner's sister, and you'll be better prepared!) you can start playing with intentionally underexposing, emphasizing the available light in ways that complement your subject. Have fun!

(nb. often, shake will be a non-issue when you're doing something like this ^^^, so go nuts)


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## lawrencek328 (Dec 7, 2013)

haha i will give it a try worst case scenario light it up with lightroom


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## rasmussen4 (Dec 7, 2013)

Yeah, those conditions without a flash, your ISO is obviously your best buddy, coupled with a fast lens. No fundage for a flash, or just haven't gotten around to it? A good external flash is pretty rudimentary in my kit these days, I can't imagine NOT having one handy for so many different situations.


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## bratkinson (Dec 7, 2013)

Derrel hit the nail on the head in all respects &#8211; high ISO speed, near-wide open aperture for improved IQ as most lenses aren&#8217;t their sharpest wide open (2.5-2.8ish instead of 1.8), and try to keep the shutter speed as fast as possible to stop subject (and your) movement.

I&#8217;ve been &#8216;fighting&#8217; the exposure triangle for no-flash indoor digital photography for perhaps 10 years. Fast glass and high ISO speeds are critical. But at or near wide-open apertures results in thin DOF, perhaps measured in inches, which makes group shots near impossible to get everybodys&#8217; faces in focus. Check out the DOF tutorial and calculator links below and experiment with your camera/lens/aperture combos to see what thin DOFs you will be forced to deal with.

Understanding Depth of Field in Photography

Online Depth of Field Calculator

In addition to the DOF considerations, choosing shutter speeds to stop subject motion is quite challenging. Even with standing subjects, 1/125[SUP]th[/SUP] if needed to consistently stop motion. If they&#8217;re like me and talk with their hands, their hands may be blurred slightly. But to get that kind of shutter speed, ISO in the 3200 and higher is needed, which, for the T5i, -might- result in too much noise. But as mentioned above, better a shot with noise than a blurry, underexposed image. So the alternative is slower shutter speeds. But the number of throw-aways due to subject movement grows very quickly to 4 out of 5 get tossed, perhaps even more, when you&#8217;re shooting at 1/30[SUP]th[/SUP]. It gets progressively worse at 1/20[SUP]th[/SUP] and 1/10[SUP]th[/SUP]. Then, of those remaining, ditch the ones where their eyes are closed, somebody is talking with their mouth wide open, unflattering pictures of any females (be especially cognizant that women never want &#8216;bad&#8217; pictures o themselves &#8216;out there&#8217, and distracting clutter in the background, such as a coat rack, overly colorful wall hangings, etc. I&#8217;ve had as few as 1 in 25 &#8216;keepers&#8217; when shooting in the 1/20[SUP]th[/SUP]-1/30[SUP]th[/SUP] range. So if that&#8217;s where you have to shoot, so be it. But then use the &#8216;spray and pray&#8217; method &#8211; take lots and lots of pictures expecting that a large number of them will be trashed. At least with digital, it&#8217;s free.

One more thing...keep the AF set to AI Servo. That way, the camera will keep focused locked on even if the subject (or you) move slightly during the exposure. Single Shot mode is limited to things that don't move...buildings, bridges, etc.

Lastly, the popup flash isn&#8217;t all &#8216;bad&#8217;. Just as &#8216;insurance&#8217;, put the camera on auto and tape a piece of Kleenex to the front of the popup to &#8216;soften&#8217; and diffuse the light. But remember that the light output of the flash is only good for about 10 feet, with everything further back, dark. That, however, can be useful to hide/darken unnecessary/distracting background clutter and have properly lit subject faces.

I know this is all a giant handful to remember for a newbie to photography. But as I and countless others have learned the hard way&#8230;from our mistakes. And practice, practice, practice will ultimately increase your successes.

I think of Thomas Edison, when, after 1000 or more failed attempts to make a lightbulb was asked if he was discouraged. His response was that he now knew 1000 ways NOT to make a lightbulb!​


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## lawrencek328 (Dec 10, 2013)

thank you for that bratkinson. hopefully ill grab a speedlite by the time of the birthday :] but I will try.. and i noticed some pics i took last night for fun in a dark setting of that sort.. the noise was extremely high.. but better than taking a completely dark photo.


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## lawrencek328 (Dec 10, 2013)

sorry but what is AI servo?


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## lawrencek328 (Dec 10, 2013)

never mind i figured that out thanks


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## steveraw (Dec 10, 2013)

Most of the people here might know by now how crazy am I when it comes to B/W. Most of my images use to get spoiled because of the low light so as a solution for it i use to get them turned to B/W and you can grab some tips from the pro here : Black and White tips.
And just in case you plan to click some outside : Cloudy day fun.


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## DiskoJoe (Dec 10, 2013)

12800 is extreme. I shot this at 12800 handheld. YOu can see the noise and this was after noise reduction too. 




reflection by DiskoJoe, on Flickr


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## Derrel (Dec 10, 2013)

bratkinson gives a pretty good description of the problems of shooting social photography situations at sloooow shutter speeds. The advantage goes to higher speeds and greater image noise, as opposed to lower ISO levels and smooth, noise-free images where the blur is so high that you end up trashing the majority of the frames due to blurriness of one type or another.

Speaking of blur of one type; second curtain flash synch is ONE type of blur that CAN be pretty neat. It involves setting the flash to fire at the end of the exposure, instead of the normal timing, which is right at the start of the exposure. Look into how to set the T5i to what's called second curtain flash synchronization. When used with slowish speeds, and even the on-camera flash, it can make some neat pics of things like dancing, partiers, and so on. This is also often called "slow synch", but second curtain is a specific variant of 'slow synch', and it renders the sharp part better than slow synch done first-curtain. Another way this is described is the term "dragging the shutter". When done 'right', this can look *fantastic!*

Take a look here: 13 Great Examples of Slow Sync Flash Images - Digital Photography School

Keep in mind, at elevated ISO levels like 3,200 or Hi 0.3 or whatever, the pop-up flash's power can be pretty high, in relative terms, and can provide a lot of light at such high ISO levels and with f/2.5-3.5 aperture range.

Indoors, in a ballroom, a speed of say 1/3 second at f/3.5 at ISO 3200 with the pop-up might allow you to get a lot of ambient light, for mood, for ambiance, and then the flash will provide a sharp image, with a gentle ghost-like halo around moving people, like couples dancing. Of course, the shutter time depends a lot on the light level; if the place is a cave, it might take a 2-second exposure; if it's an old hotel ballroom, dragging the shutter is more likely going to be 1/2 or 1/3 second.

This is one technique where Programmed AUTO, not the green box, but the shiftable P-mode might be one of the best decisions you could make, then shift the shutter speed sloooooow, and watch what results. Programmed automatic with the pop-up flash has the potential to work pretty well I think, especially with a really FAST f/1.8 zoom lens. If the camera has an AF-assist function, it might be helpful if the place is a dungeon--but, AF assist usually works ONLY in the single-shot one One-SHot AF focusing mode.


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## lawrencek328 (Dec 10, 2013)

i just got home im gonna play with the flash settings now.
disko joe.. was that photo edited with lightroom?


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## DiskoJoe (Dec 11, 2013)

lawrencek328 said:


> i just got home im gonna play with the flash settings now.
> disko joe.. was that photo edited with lightroom?



I used CS4 but the raw editor is very similar to lightroom. Additional noise reduction was done with NeatImage, real nice coftware and cheap too. 

This is another shot I did at 12800. It haz peoples. So probably more relevant to this discussion.




bright eyed and bushy tailed by DiskoJoe, on Flickr

You can see the noticable noise in the shot. There has been no noise reduction done to this shot. But the people are nice and sharp.


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## lawrencek328 (Dec 12, 2013)

thanks  i will check out neat image


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## AmberAtLoveAndInk (Dec 15, 2013)

Welcome to the amazingly complicated world of photography, haha! Hopefully someone on here has already given you some good lighting ideas and tips, if not, I know in your original question you has said you did not have an external flash? Is this a matter of not having enough time or enough funds? I am also a canon user (60D) and just picked up a super nifty speedlite flash for $35 on amazon and it performs (believe it or not!) very similar to a high quality canon speedlite flash. It's called the Neewer TT560. I also paired it with a softbox diffuser (like $6) to cut out that "deer in the headlights" flash effect and it makes a world of difference with low light indoor settings. But If you really don't have the time to wait around on amazon to deliver, like many people have suggested you can bump up your ISO and that may be able to help you out depending on the limits of your camera. BUT I do highly recommend you get an external flash RIGHT AWAY if you plan on doing some professional work in the future. Lighting makes and breaks your photos! Good luck!



 *External flashes are also very important outdoors as well as indoors!! I used an external flash here as a light filler to brighten up her face and get rid of that extra shading.


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## lawrencek328 (Dec 16, 2013)

not planning on doing any professional work yet  however the only thing holding me back from the speedlight is the size of it on the camera... do you know of one that isnt so big size wise?    
i purchased one of the gary fong diffusers for the built in flash just got it in today will post some with and without pictures soon


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## JoeW (Dec 17, 2013)

The suggestions around high ISO and a wide open aperture (I would try to keep it around f2 rather than f1.8--at f1.8 your DoF is going to be measured in inches...someone's nose will be in focus but their ears may not) are the way to go.   Diffuser on the popup flash isn't great but it may reduce glare and hotspots on skin.  I'm going to offer some additional hints.

1.  See if you can set up a station or area that is suitable for impromptu portraits.  Yes, you'll be wandering around shooting people just doing their thing.  But maybe you can find a blank wall that is well lit (or you can add a continuous light source to) and pull people over to make funny faces or wish the birthday girl a special evening or pose with the guest of honor).  Nothing formal, it's just a way to cheat and make sure that some of the shots have less noise b/c you've been able to dictate the light.

2.  Look for ways to stabilize yourself when you shoot.  Lean against doorways or walls.  You may end up shooting at 1/20th (which will get blurring if people are moving or gesturing).  Anything you can do to provide a stable, solid platform is going to reduce blur and motion.

3.  You can get a YongNuo speed light like the 460 that will run you less than $40 new.  Bounce them off of walls, aim it up and deflect the light off a card.  It will be much more effective than your popup flash.  Or...set the YN off-camera and as a slave (activated by your popup flash) step back to reduce glare and overexposure and then shoot away.  That could work very well if you can find a designated spot for informal portraits...white walls, popup flash and an off-camera slave.


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## lawrencek328 (Dec 18, 2013)

funds arent the problem i dont mind spending a few hundred bucks on a speedlight im just stuck between which one to get that will work well with a t5i


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## lawrencek328 (Dec 18, 2013)

thats good to know JoeW I never thought about leaning on something to help stabilize the camera


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## steveraw (Dec 20, 2013)

That's Canon t5i you can go with a Canon 270EX.
You can get the omni-bounce for the same for $13.49 at Unique photos.
Here is a link for it : http://www.uniquephoto.com/product/stofen-om-ev-omni-bounce-for-canon-270ex-flash-om-ev/

another one thou i don't know much about this one it is around $29 approx
Link : http://www.uniquephoto.com/product/honl-8inch-regular-snoot-for-photo-speed-system-honl-snoot8/

I personally found them cheap and best also heard quite positive stuffs. And i am a loyal now.


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## XFZ (Dec 24, 2013)

Why didn't you shoot at a lower ISO. With day 1/20 shutter?
reflection by DiskoJoe, on Flickr[/QUOTE]


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## Centropolis (Dec 24, 2013)

Okay I am going to give this one a try.

- Keep your ISO at 1600 or 3200 depending on how dark it is.
- You have a relatively fast lens at f/1.8 but depending on if you're doing group shots, you'll need higher depth of field so you might need to stop down.
- Here is my most important tip (and I am not sure if someone mentioned it already as I didn't read the whole thread): shoot RAW and underexpose your image on purpose if you have to in order to have a fast enough shutter speed to "freeze" the action.  Slightly underexposed RAW files are a lot better than blurry pics.  Exposure adjustments on RAW files in Lightroom is a lot better and a lot more useful than blurry images.  Atleast you'll get something out of the pictures.


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## lawrencek328 (Dec 30, 2013)

thank u guys I will try all of them tonight in a similar setting to see what comes out best... also for the canon 270ex, it doesnt have AF assist does it? i couldnt find anything in the specifications


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