# Pricing question - Photos for restaurant



## lisa_13 (Sep 18, 2012)

I've been asked by a local restaurant to photograph their sandwiches, about 25 different types. They just want each sandwich to be plated and photographed on a plain white background, for use on their website only. Any ideas about what I should be charging for this? Also should I quote them a rate per sandwich, or just give them a day rate? Thanks in advance as I am new to pricing in this area.


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## IgsEMT (Sep 18, 2012)

PM sent.


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## lisa_13 (Sep 18, 2012)

IgsEMT said:


> PM sent.



Ya sure about that? I didn't get one!


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## IgsEMT (Sep 18, 2012)

It's there, give it few mins


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## tirediron (Sep 19, 2012)

What is your CoDB for the time it would take to do this?


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## jamesbjenkins (Sep 19, 2012)

Your cost of doing business, your cost of goods sold, your market and your business plan (specifically, your profit margin) are the ONLY way to set your prices. Certainly not what anonymous people on an internet forum think.

I seriously don't know why so many people ask us what they should charge.


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## KmH (Sep 19, 2012)

You may want to invest in some commerical usage licensing software because pricing varies by market area, and Boston is a more expensive market than central Iowa is.
fotoQuote ? Stock and Assignment Photography Price Guide
I also recommend you visit www.ASMP.org and on the left click on *Business Resources*.

After charging my creative fee for making the photographs, I licensed web site usage (non-exclusive) of my photographs by size and time -3 months, 6 months and 1 yr.

Online photo usage at up to 400x400 px was $35 for 3 months usage/photo. Up to 600x600 px was $50 for 3 months usage/photo. Licensing fees for larger than 600x600 were determined on a as needed basis.

For 1 yr at up to 400x400 px the license fee was $115, and for up to 600x600 px the 1yr license fee was $165.

For 25 photos I would give a price break on the usage licensing depending on the length of time the client wanted to use the photos. A restaurant would likely want to use the same photos for several years. 

While I would not license the photos for longer than 1 year at a time, I would quote the client (in writing) prices for a second and 3rd year of usage. Any usage beyond year 3 would continue at 3rd year pricing.


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## amolitor (Sep 19, 2012)

jamesbjenkins said:


> ... your market  ... plan ...  are the ONLY way to set your prices



Arguably, asking people on the internet what you should charge constitutes market research. An important part of developing a business plan is finding out what similar or related products are selling for.

I seriously don't know why so many people on TPF think that anyone asking a business related question is a moron.


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## cgipson1 (Sep 19, 2012)

amolitor said:


> jamesbjenkins said:
> 
> 
> > ... your market  ... plan ...  are the ONLY way to set your prices
> ...



And CODB has nothing to do with it, right? And if HER market is TOTALLY different than MY market? How are my market prices pertinent to her at all? Does Image quality enter into the equation at all? Should she really charge what I would charge?

AND if she is already doing commercial shoots... she SHOULD already HAVE a business plan (and business license, and tax number, and insurance, etc, etc....), not developing it after she has already contracted for a shoot.


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## ceejtank (Sep 19, 2012)

jamesbjenkins said:


> Your cost of doing business, your cost of goods sold, your market and your business plan (specifically, your profit margin) are the ONLY way to set your prices. Certainly not what anonymous people on an internet forum think.
> 
> I seriously don't know why so many people ask us what they should charge.



I think it's to get more an idea of how you personally went about setting prices for things.  For example, I am comfortable with setting event prices, if I'm shooting a party, MMA fight, etc.  But for something I've never priced before, I would want some input on how someone else priced it, regardless of my CODB for it.  I think asking if theyd do it by a day cost, vs doing it per pic is a reasonable question in this case.


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## tirediron (Sep 19, 2012)

amolitor said:


> ...Arguably, asking people on the internet what you should charge constitutes market research. An important part of developing a business plan is finding out what similar or related products are selling for.


Yes...  I suppose, but the market price for a three hour wedding shoot in central NYC is probably going to be somewhat different than that of similar work in rural North Dakota, at least in part because the photographer's CODB is vastly different in the two areas.  For market research to be relevant, the markets have to be similar.



amolitor said:


> ...I seriously don't know why so many people on TPF think that anyone asking a business related question is a moron.


No one referred to the OP as a "moron", HOWEVER, there's a distinct difference between saying, "I've been contracted to do a shoot for .....  Based on my CODB/COGS/etc, it should price out at $....  Does that seem reasonable?" or "I normally price work of this nature by the hour, but because of .....  I'm thinking of quoting for the whole job, does that make sense?" and questions such as that posted by the OP, which loosely translates to, "Tell me how much to charge!".  This indicates that the OP hasn't done any of his/her own work and really has no idea what they're doing, and probably shouldn't be undertaking commercial work.


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## tirediron (Sep 19, 2012)

ceejtank said:


> ...I think it's to get more an idea of how you personally went about setting prices for things. For example, I am comfortable with setting event prices, if I'm shooting a party, MMA fight, etc. But for something I've never priced before, I would want some input on how someone else priced it, regardless of my CODB for it. I think asking if theyd do it by a day cost, vs doing it per pic is a reasonable question in this case.


I agree, that is a valid question, but the OP asked two questions.  One was how to charge, the other was WHAT to charge.


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## ceejtank (Sep 19, 2012)

tirediron said:


> ceejtank said:
> 
> 
> > ...I think it's to get more an idea of how you personally went about setting prices for things. For example, I am comfortable with setting event prices, if I'm shooting a party, MMA fight, etc. But for something I've never priced before, I would want some input on how someone else priced it, regardless of my CODB for it. I think asking if theyd do it by a day cost, vs doing it per pic is a reasonable question in this case.
> ...




Agreed. What to charge is difficult to answer for all reasons mentioned above, but some guidance on how to charge I feel is acceptable. As I have never shot this type of shooting, I can't help. If I were to do it though, based on what I've read... my personal strategy would be the same as licensing a photo to a website for a given amount of time.

I would say "You have license to use these x photos for x amount of time for your website solely, I retain copyright, but you have exclusive rights to use them".. that would generate you some more $$ and I would charge a fixed amount per photo. That is how I (never having done this type of shooting before) would go about it.


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## Derrel (Sep 19, 2012)

I wonder just how different sandwiches on a plate are in say Portland, as opposed to New York city? I bet the sammiches in NYC are louder, and more brash than those in PDX. I bet it costs a LOT more to schlep a couple lightstands and lights on the bus in NYC than it does in PDX. I hear tell that 8-gig Compact Flash cards in NYC are like $100 each! I bet the CODB in NYC is like 3.56789432 times higher than the cost of doing business in Portland. Or Vancouver, either in Vancouver WA or Vancouver, British Columbia. And besides, the going rate for shooting sandwiches on plates for web site use is a closely-guarded* TOP SECRET LEVEL* bit of insider information that NOBODY IN HIS OR HER RIGHT MIND would dare discuss on TPF!


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## tirediron (Sep 19, 2012)

Derrel said:


> I wonder just how different sandwiches on a plate are in say Portland, as opposed to New York city? I bet the sammiches in NYC are louder, and more brash than those in PDX. I bet it costs a LOT more to schlep a couple lightstands and lights on the bus in NYC than it does in PDX. I hear tell that 8-gig Compact Flash cards in NYC are like $100 each! I bet the CODB in NYC is like 3.56789432 times higher than the cost of doing business in Portland. Or Vancouver, either in Vancouver WA or Vancouver, British Columbia. And besides, the going rate for shooting sandwiches on plates for web site use is a closely-guarded TOP SECRET LEVEL bit of insider information that NOBODY IN HIS OR HER RIGHT MIND would dare discuss on TPF!


I won't pretend to know, or even guess what the differences in COL and CODB business would be between a major centre such as New York City, and a small rural location like North Gumboot Junction, SD.  I DO know however that between Vancouver, British Columbia (a major centre by Canadian standards) and my area (a small town 25 minutes west of Victoria) that costs such as rent, vehicle insurance and fuel are significantly different, and therefore would result in a much different CODB for photographing the same plate of sammies.  

I don't see it as any sort of secret; my rates are there for the asking, and if it's of any use to the OP, my rate for doing the work would be $100/hour for the work plus licensing which would of course be use-dependant.


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## lisa_13 (Sep 19, 2012)

Wow guys, can I defend myself here? I just graduated college & am just getting into business. I haven't yet been contracted to do the shoot, but was asked if I would send my rates for it. And just because I'm not sure what to charge for something doesn't mean I can't do it. I've shot plenty of food. I know how to light. I went to school to learn that ****. I can shoot it, I just don't know how to charge for it.

Weren't you all starting out once too? Jesus. I knew I left this forum for a reason once before.


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## WPH (Sep 19, 2012)

I reckon charge a day rate.


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## Tony S (Sep 20, 2012)

Wow! You went to school to learn how to shoot food but they forgot to tell you about the business side and how to figure out your fees?  I would venture to say the school dropped the ball somewhere.


$2500 for a of shooting plus editing and  then a release to use in all advertising, online, and menus.


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## jamesbjenkins (Sep 20, 2012)

amolitor said:


> jamesbjenkins said:
> 
> 
> > ... your market  ... plan ...  are the ONLY way to set your prices
> ...



Hey, snarkapotamus,

Call me crazy, but I've always thought that it's best to do market research...wait for it...in YOUR market.

And pretty sure I didn't call anyone a moron. I'm just always surprised when people put so much stock in the opinions of anonymous members of a forum when it comes to their business and their money. It's one thing to ask people here for photographic or design critique, but IMO it's completely different when we're talking about things that are so highly contextual to a particular local market.


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## jamesbjenkins (Sep 20, 2012)

lisa_13 said:


> Wow guys, can I defend myself here? I just graduated college & am just getting into business. I haven't yet been contracted to do the shoot, but was asked if I would send my rates for it. And just because I'm not sure what to charge for something doesn't mean I can't do it. I've shot plenty of food. I know how to light. I went to school to learn that ****. I can shoot it, I just don't know how to charge for it.
> 
> Weren't you all starting out once too? Jesus. I knew I left this forum for a reason once before.



Shields down, junior. Count to ten and come back to the table. You've received some good information here. Spoon feeding you doesn't help anyone long term.

Teach a man how to fish.........


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## Helen B (Sep 20, 2012)

All of the food photographers I know charge per image*, and the per-image charge may depend on the predicted 'difficulty' of the image and the number of similar items - ie the overall size of the contract. There's not much point discussing the exact rates because I don't think that they are relevant here (one's luncheon . They do charge a single one-time fee: no time-limited license fee, no restrictions on use. Put yourself in the client's shoes - would you want to mess around with licenses and restrictions on how the image can be used, or would you like to pay the photographer to take some pictures of your food? As a client I would also prefer to be charged per accepted image** - then I don't care quite as much how long the photographer takes to get it right and I can predict my costs more accurately. If anyone tries to teach you that it is not a really good idea to make the client feel like you are on the client's side, then stop listening to them. This is all about making the client feel good about working with you, while delivering great, seductive photos of course.

Typically the photo assistant's fees are paid by the photographer, and then billed to the client with no markup. They are usually day rates.

* I don't do food, but I do do similar work, and I quote fixed one-time charges with no restrictions on use. When pricing I weigh up things like how much I like working with the client, how much they can afford, how much they need the reassurance of a huge fee, how much I need the job etc etc.

** I guess that you know that it is in your interests to have the client sign off on the images as they are taken. Then reshoots can be at the client's expense if you wish them to be.


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## ceejtank (Sep 20, 2012)

lisa_13 said:


> Wow guys, can I defend myself here? I just graduated college & am just getting into business. I haven't yet been contracted to do the shoot, but was asked if I would send my rates for it. And just because I'm not sure what to charge for something doesn't mean I can't do it. I've shot plenty of food. I know how to light. I went to school to learn that ****. I can shoot it, I just don't know how to charge for it.
> 
> Weren't you all starting out once too? Jesus. I knew I left this forum for a reason once before.




Woah, I totes gave real advice. P.s. I'm just south of boston, so if you need ideas for pricing in the area let me know.  I have a lot of friends "in the biz"


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