# Wedding Photography



## alwat (Feb 6, 2010)

Nikon D90 with the 18.105mm f/3.5-5.6G
Sigma EF-530 DG ST Flash

I was asked to do my Niece's Wedding day. This will be my first wedding and I am not looking forward to it really, My main concern is taking photo's in the church with no flash, need help with the settings.


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## PhotoXopher (Feb 6, 2010)

You're gonna get an ear full.

I'll just say good luck to you... and take the advice about to follow.


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## alwat (Feb 6, 2010)

To late to back out


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## KmH (Feb 6, 2010)

alwat said:


> Nikon D90 with the 18.105mm f/3.5-5.6G
> Sigma EF-530 DG ST Flash
> 
> I was asked to do my Niece's Wedding day. This will be my first wedding and I am not looking forward to it really, My main concern is taking photo's in the church with no flash, need help with the settings.


Do you know how to use the camera in manual mode?


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## TJ K (Feb 6, 2010)

You might want a faster lens. That and bump your ISO a bit. There is a lot though that goes into a wedding. Make sure you have mastered your camera though that is very important.


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## kangta13 (Feb 6, 2010)

If you're sure it's a "no flash" situation.. don't think your 3.5-5.6 will cut it.. maybe ask a friend to borrow a low light prime lens.. i'm a canon user, so sorry can't offer too much advice on specific models.. i shot my first wedding a couple weeks ago.. it's definitely challenging but rewarding task getting all the shots by yourself.. any friends you can use as a second shooter?? think of the progression of the wedding, the events that take place.. have an idea of what angles or perspective you're gonna capture.. prep shots, pre-walk, aisle walk, ring exchange, kiss, post walk, family/group shots/bridesmen/maids, reception walk in, cake cut, toast... think of the photos they would want in their book, and that's what recording for them.. make sure you get some close-ups ring, maybe the dress..  and guess remember high iso pictures are more editable vs. blurry pics.. good luck!


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## gsgary (Feb 6, 2010)

No chance shooting in a church  with that lens


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## alwat (Feb 6, 2010)

Thanks for the comments.
I've looked at the idea of hiring a lense from Lenses For Hire Ltd., what lenses do you recommend


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## KmH (Feb 6, 2010)

Many wedding photographers prefer a 2 lens setup: a 24-70 mm f/2.8 (for group shots) and a 70-200mm f/2.8 (for portraits and distance work). So, you might think about renting a better body too, like a D700 because it has much better ISO performance than your D90.

One lens on your D90 and the other on the D700.


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## Dominantly (Feb 6, 2010)

First, you are asking "what settings"; what this implies to me is you don't know the basics of your camera, or what the "settings" do for you.

Second, you didn't inquire about lens options and just listed your kit lens, I would assume because you thought it would be sufficient. 

:meh:

So you've taken this on, and not to stress you out any further, I will just say good luck.
TO compensate for your lack of experience, I would say you are going to have to shell out some cash. Like mentioned above, rent a D700 or D3s, Rent the lenses listed above by KmH. I'd then grab quite a few SD cards and Shoot, Shoot, Shoot, Shoot, (Raw+Jpeg).... Take 5000 photos and you should have a few keepers. Whether you have composed them in a manner that would be expected of a professional, thats another question.


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## PhotoXopher (Feb 6, 2010)

Do you honestly think renting a nicer body is going to help when they aren't sure what settings to use on the one they already have? This is one of those situations where throwing money at something to get good pictures isn't going to do squat. Now you expect this person to learn a pro body camera and carry 2 heavy lenses.

I say you got yourself into this, shoot with what you have and make the most of it. At the minimum, buy the $100 ($139 new) Nikon 50mm f1/8 lens.


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## Dominantly (Feb 6, 2010)

I foresee the biggest problem being motion blur, or underexposed photos. The ability to raise the ISO, coupled with a good prime lens, would help mitigate that issue.
I DO think they could learn to operate the D700 in a short period of time. Aperture, Shutter, ISO, all the same. The shutter button is the big one on the top right.

I've never held a D3S, but hand me one and I'll take a perfectly exposed photo in manual mode, a few seconds after handling it.


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## PhotoXopher (Feb 6, 2010)

I agree, but that's you - to me it sounds like the original poster isn't all the comfortable. They have a D90, which is worlds better than the D200 in low light which is what some pro photographers were using prior to the D700 (and still are).

The camera is fine, adding a new body to the equation is only going to increase the margin for error. In my opinion it's time to learn the D90 inside and out, experiment and learn NOW so you're more ready when the big day gets here. Otherwise you're going to rent a lens for a day, learn where the controls are, use it with marginal success and send it back.

Check out books at your local library, study them, read your owners manual (a second time if you have to).


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## Dominantly (Feb 6, 2010)

True.

I am 100% certain that a couple good lenses are a necessity.


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## PhotoXopher (Feb 6, 2010)

Yeah, I agree there... at least lenses aren't a huge learning curve, but still - would be nice to have more than a couple days to practice with. At least getting the 50mm would allow some learning time with very little expense. Once outside the 18-105 might work out OK depending on the light conditions, plus the flash.


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## Dominantly (Feb 6, 2010)

With the flash, it would be nice if they had something to diffuse it, a FONG diffuser, or at least a Sto-fen would be nice.

I can foresee an issue with focus if they were to pick up a prime (like the f/1.8)on the day of the event. It will probably take some practice to nail the focus and DOF. Most people who grab one just set it wide open and then shoot with just a narrow DOF, they miss and get soft shots.


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## IgsEMT (Feb 6, 2010)

> I can foresee an issue with focus if they were to pick up a prime (like the f/1.8)on the day of the event. It will probably take some practice to nail the focus and DOF. Most people who grab one just set it wide open and then shoot with just a narrow DOF, they miss and get soft shots.


you mean shooting wide open with a "cool" lens won't give you BEST pictures? and I thought everything was about equipment


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## Dominantly (Feb 6, 2010)

WELL, that depends on who you are.

I would be willing to bet you could find a couple people who love shooting wide open, at just about everything 

Equipment does have alot to do with it. That shallow DOF does have it's uses though, in the right hands.


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## IgsEMT (Feb 6, 2010)

> WELL, that depends on who you are.
> 
> I would be willing to bet you could find a couple people who love shooting wide open, at just about everything


funny you mentioned about shooting open, I was just thinking about those TEACH-ME-THREADS you posted and wish more ppl read them


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## Dominantly (Feb 6, 2010)

What fun would that be?


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## alwat (Feb 6, 2010)

RE: all your comments....
I take on board what you all say, I do not know my camera inside out, I've not long had the camera, I've use a Panasonic DMC FZ30 for over 4 years, and used is mostly on Auto. 
I am an amature, who likes taking pictures, I go on walks, camping and holidays, and love taking pictures.
My neice asked me to do her wedding to keep the cost down, I know i'm not experienced enough to do the wedding.
I have been experimenting with the manual and iso setting to understand the camera better.
The reason i've joined the forum is to have a better knowledge of the camera and taking better picture, with advice from the many experienced photographers in the forum.


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## PhotoXopher (Feb 6, 2010)

Just to give you some idea...

Some recent shots I did of a dance performance in a school (also crappy lighting).

1/90th - 1/120th shutter speed
1600 ISO
f/2.8 - f/4 aperture


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## IgsEMT (Feb 6, 2010)

by now u already read my PM, i hope...
just be careful shooting it. yes you want to do good and better for them but lacking wedding shooting experience and lacking camera knowledge, *be careful* not to cause more HELL in the family.


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## alwat (Feb 6, 2010)

received your PM, I  take your comments, and apreciate all the comments so far.


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## ChasK (Feb 6, 2010)

alwat said:


> Nikon D90 with the 18.105mm f/3.5-5.6G
> Sigma EF-530 DG ST Flash
> 
> I was asked to do my Niece's Wedding day. This will be my first wedding and I am not looking forward to it really, My main concern is taking photo's in the church with no flash, need help with the settings.



If you really don't want to do it my best advice is don't.  If you screw it up she'll hate you forever.  As a wedding present you could hire a professional.  This way she'll get good pictures and you can enjoy the wedding.


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## erichards (Feb 6, 2010)

The better faster lens and a bigger sensor on the camera will help.  But since this is your first if you have time go to the church and shoot...a lot...try a tri-pod if desperate for the ceremony...and see if they can bump the light a bit.


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## alwat (Feb 6, 2010)

It would cost me an arm an a leg to hire a photographer, I don't have a problem taking the pictures before and after the church, cos I can check the pictures on the LCD screen and retake if necessary. As for inside the church you only have one go, i'm hoping to go to the church the day before, so i'll be able to check the light levels.


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## KmH (Feb 6, 2010)

Better yet is to check out the church 2 weeks in advance and have a couple people with you, you can use as subjects so you can make test images.


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## schumionbike (Feb 6, 2010)

You do have a D90 so you probably can shoot at 3200 ISO without too much problem, the photo will be noisy but it's probably better than most camera at 1600 ISO.  I know I don't have any problem printing 1600 ISO file on a Nikon D40.  But do make sure to check out the church before the wedding date to get an idea of what kind of setting you will be using.  Some church are actually well lit with fluorescent lighting   Now, once church is over and you can can use your flash, knowing your camera and your flash can get you far with your current set up.  I've shot my first wedding last weekend with a D40 and a kit lens and an sb-600 and this is what I got at the reception. Won't win any photography contest but the couple were happy with them.  

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/professional-gallery/192869-winter-wedding.html


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## Jay30 (Feb 6, 2010)

Go to the wedding rehearsal.


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## alwat (Feb 7, 2010)

They don't do wedding rehearsal in the UK. Unless it's one of the posh one's.


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## DWS (Feb 8, 2010)

Please be very clear with your niece regarding any concerns you have.  I was talking with a friend last week who said she regretted not having secured a seasoned photographer for her wedding.

Once the bride begins her walk down the aisle, the show is on!


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## Mike_E (Feb 8, 2010)

Make sure to get all of the formals done between the ceremony and the reception when you can use flash.  Use off camera or spring for a good bracket.  I'd go with the bracket if you can't swing both because you can use the bracket at the reception.

Don't worry so much about high ISO because a good bit of noise comes out in the wash while being printed.

You can go here and read this as well..  http://www.planetneil.com/tangents/


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## alwat (Feb 8, 2010)

I want to thank everyone for there comments.
The wedding is this Saturday 13th February, I will post photo's in my photo gallery, for you all to see and appraise good :thumbup: or bad :thumbdown:.


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## loki05 (Feb 8, 2010)

Good Luck.  Just like many suggested here already...use a f2.8 lens and a 50mm 1.8 or 1.4 for portraits. Make sure your eye level for most shots and fill your frame as much as possible.  Remember to keep changing ISO's throughout the day and with each setting.  Capture the "important" moments by going paparazzi on your shutter...better to get them in than to miss them altogether. :thumbup:

If all else fails....


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## sA x sKy (Feb 8, 2010)

loki05 said:


> Good Luck.  Just like many suggested here already...use a f2.8 lens and a 50mm 1.8 or 1.4 for portraits. Make sure your eye level for most shots and fill your frame as much as possible.  Remember to keep changing ISO's throughout the day and with each setting.  Capture the "important" moments by going paparazzi on your shutter...better to get them in than to miss them altogether. :thumbup:
> 
> If all else fails....




No don't call in sick if all else fails, unless you're actually suffering from something life-threatening. It would be morally wrong. Really wrong.


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## loki05 (Feb 8, 2010)

i guess jokes are hard to interpret online


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## Dominantly (Feb 8, 2010)




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## fwellers (Feb 9, 2010)

+1 on that tripod. Aside from any motion blur you can get good inside pics with one.

Did anyone mention to make sure you shoot in raw mode ? That way you have a lot of post processing fixes you can accomplish.

You are braver than I am !!


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## ChasK (Feb 9, 2010)

JAMES07 said:


> Hi
> You don't need to be an expert to do weddings the key is to capture the love of the couple. Get photos of them walking down the isle and at the alter. after the nuptuals are finished gather the families together and get several shots of the couple with there loved ones and dont forget the reception.
> 
> Cheers!
> Dorm Bedding



All you really need is a DSLR and a website!   Then you too can deliver under exposed poorly composed snapshot any bride will cherish for hours even days after her special day!


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## GeneralBenson (Feb 9, 2010)

It's never too late to back out.  

Like everyone said, rent better equipment and cross your fingers.  I would get a D300/D700, and 24-70/2.8, 70-200/2.8, 50/1.4 and another flash.  I would consider that the minimum required to garuntee a good wedding.  That doesn't include, of course, all the skill and experience that are also required.  Good luck.


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## Restomage (Feb 10, 2010)

The church is going to tear you a new a$$hole with that gear, unfortunately.

I'd suggest renting some equipment, D700 and a fast lens like a 24-70mm f2.8.


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## iolair (Feb 10, 2010)

I'd agree with getting the 50mm / 1.8 - an inexpensive way to get good results in low light (though you'll not wanting to be using it wide open more than you have to, because of the slight softness and narrow depth of field... (although if you use them well they can produce very nice photos).  If you have a tripod or monopod, that can improve your results a lot too.  Learn to use bounce flash for the reception - firing the flash from the camera straight at the subject rarely gives flattering results.  Bouncing it off a white ceiling is likely to be better, but practice in advance so you know the best settings to use on your camera.  When's the wedding?


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## DWS (Apr 19, 2010)

whatever happened with the OP?


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## iskoos (Apr 21, 2010)

Hey, 

I did a wedding a few weeks ago. I wasn't the official photographer. I was just testing myself and I listed my findings in the below thread. Go ahead and read them up. You will find some useful info there.

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/beyond-basics/195887-my-first-dslr-wedding.html

Your biggest challenge as said will be motion blur. Becase if you use that kit lens and no flash, your shutter speed will not be any faster than 1/30-40 level (depending on the actual lighting) and if the crowd you are shooting is still, you may get away with it but if they are walking or waving their hands, you will get some ugly motion blur. And the funny thing is that you will not realize some of them on that 3.0" LCD screen. This happened to me. When I got home, I had to toss a lot fo good shots due to motion blur. 
I did use high ISO 1600 (I have Canon 500D) it was too much for my camera but I had to. So test and find out your max acceptable ISO performance and get ready to use it.
If you have(will have) a prime lens (I used 50mm f/1.4) it will be great. I did captured great shots with that lens inside and outside. I can say that those shots saved me. My friends really liked a few shots I captured and thanked me for those.
But one danger with the fast prime lens is that the shallow DOF. Be VERY careful... One other thing is that they cannot auto focus really fast sometimes and you may lose a good shot...
I cannot explain how stupidly I took many group shots at f/1.4 and found out that all but one person was out of focus in each of those pictures!!!! When taking pictures with prime lens and you stopped all the way up, make sure your subject is in ONE plane or you will burn the picture...
I never used any flash so it was challenging. At the end though I learned alot. If I do another one right now, you bet I would do much better...
A few more things, if you can try to get another camera for the other lens because you will lose some good shots while changing your lenses.

And one last thing, just shoot like crazy maniac. Do not think that you took a good shot and move on. Take 10-15 of the same shots (without annoying people of course) if you can. Because out of 10 shots, you will have much better chance to have a keeper.

Going to church and and doing practice is a very good idea. If it was me right now, I would go to exact same place for the exact time and get myself familiar with the lighting. That way you will now what the bare settings for you...

It's going to be hard I can tell. That's why you should let them know that you will do your best. They shouldn't expect a pro work from you...

Good luck...


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## Romphotog (Apr 23, 2010)

Make sure your contract says you are not to be held liable if you cant make it because of acts of god, car accident, medical emergency, arrest, alien abduction, civil war, fire, theft of your equipment, etc.
My friend was hired to be a photog for a large hasidic wedding in Jersey.  He was arrested by the NJ troopers because he didnt pay $500 in traffic fines while on the way there.
In a TV court case, a photog's equipment got stolen 1 day before wedding, so she used plastic disposable film cameras which were placed on guests' tables to shoot the wedding.  
In another incident a photog's studio burned down in a fire started in a pizzeria next door.  All wedding photos and video were lost.  Lesson is have insurance.


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## jt69 (Apr 28, 2010)

alwat said:


> Nikon D90 with the 18.105mm f/3.5-5.6G
> Sigma EF-530 DG ST Flash
> 
> I was asked to do my Niece's Wedding day. This will be my first wedding and I am not looking forward to it really, My main concern is taking photo's in the church with no flash, need help with the settings.




I really don't understand why are fellows colleagues instead of giving you advise the only thing they do is tell you good luck!. 

Ok, here is the deal, if it is true that you lack on equipment and experience , nothing is lost and I hope this quote is not to late either. 

First thing first strategy!, See if you can go to the church couple of days before the wedding and scope the location. Make sure you go at the same time the ceremony is going to happen or better yet 1/2 hour later than the set time, this will give you a more realistic lighting and color temperature. 

Tip 1.

Take your camera yes that simple camera that you have and if you definitely can not use flash take a mono pod. Look inside the church and look where the upper windows are located if there are any, also look for the direction the sunset happen and see if any light over spiel trough the  windows, if this is a catholic roman church they where usually design with the sun light hitting the altar. Believed it or not you want to position your self so the little light that goes in from those windows are behind you. make some test shots without flash and see how much predicament you will be. Based on this you can take some of my few notes to follow.

Aperture priority mode wont do you any good here , you have to go with speed priority. I use Canon so I don't know which setting will be on Nikon. Set your ISO to 400 or 800 , I don't know how much noise level your camera will have for those settings but prepare to do some post work on PC. 
Get a 12-28 or 28-35 glass with 1.2 or 1.8F stop , this will allow you to go to speeds as low as the focal distance of the glass,in other words 28mm you can go to 28. This will allow you capture fair amount of photos even if the altar is candle lit. Watch your distance between the couple and you since your focal distance will be short because of lighting condition.

If they are not paying you to make this job and you don't have the cash to spear I would only rent a good glass and conquer or learn how to use your camera. If it's true that a product helps a photographer it does not make one. It's all about composition.

My two cents...


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## JerryPH (May 1, 2010)

I am about to pi$$ off a lot of people.

OMG, I love the advice all the people who have little real experience or knowledge about weddings are giving.

- carry a tripod
- use a flash
- get fast glass
- how about a monopod
- rent a D700 or D3
- if it doesn't come out, you can retake it again
- My favorite "you don't need to be an expert to do weddings..." (the sound of the clueless... hahahahaha!!!)

Here is the situation in a nutshell:

- the OP is not even experienced with the most rudimentary functions of his own camera
- the OP doesn't even have the BASICS of photography down
- the OP has inadequate equipment.
- the OP still wants to do a wedding

Sorry to say, but unless he does something *really* smart like get together a few friends and family and split the cost of a real good and experienced photographer or get very aggressive with his studies in photography, spend some serious cash and learning time with some proper equipment, the results will be mediocre at best.

This is not a new story, and it happens ALL THE TIME and the results are ALWAYS the same.  The bride and groom, the people who deserve to get the BEST results on THE MOST IMPORTANT DAY OF THEIR LIVES... get screwed over.

I say it time and again... wedding photography is the most demanding form of any photography out there.  Not only **must** your knowledge have to be way beyond the basics of photography, your equipment had better be pro level or damn close.  Sorry, no excuses and no exceptions to this club, I am sad to say.

This may piss off a few people or the posers who want to play wedding photographers, but this happens way too many times and the only people who suffer are the ones that should NOT... the bride and groom.

I never mentioned this anywhere, but last year, I got down and dirty with a true wanna-be on another forum and he showed me his "stuff".  To be kind, it was pure crap, but him being clueless thought he was king-$hit.  

As fortune would have it, he was local so I invited him to assist me at an engagement session.  In an E-session one has about 2 hours to pull out about 150 images of which at least 50 have to be killer for the engaged couple.  Easy-peasy, right?  The stress level is about 1/10th but time is a factor.  

I am not going to go into details, but just based on his experience of trying to participate and seeing what it takes in real life to do the job right... he made a decision that kinda surprised me... he got so scared and frustrated with his results, that he basically sold all his equipment on craigslist and left photography. The poor kid was that traumatized.

Now I could be cruel and say "good riddance to bad rubbish", but that was not my intent at all.  My goal was to have him come back and talk about their experience and say "yeah, its a lot harder than I thought...", but it never happened.

You know, ignorance is bliss and it is uber-easy to talk about something even if you have no real clue about it, here on the net.  Also because it is not your a$$ on the line, you can encourage the poor person and help him make a total fool of himself to his friends and family.  You can encourage him to basically ruin *all* memories, all pictures for the bride and groom.

This I also say... not every couple is photography aware before the day of their wedding.  There are people out there that say "we simply don't care about the quality of the shots, as long as I can see some stuff from the day, we are happy".  There is also a 100% chance that these very same people later on in life regret thinking that.  I have not met a married couple who were screwed over by a poor wedding photographer years later not wish they had nicer shots of their most special day... not once.

And that has happened here on this VERY forum that our newbie wanna-be wedding photographer went through this very same thing.  He then went and  him and his cousin take about 1200 useless and blurry photographs, then lose his memory cards (he said they were stolen), then miraculously find the cards in his bag a few days later, and come back and admit that he screwed up the entire day *big time* for the bride and groom and as far as I know, never showed up here again after that.

If there is ONE lesson to be learned from this, it's that photography is fun, it can be easy at some levels and people think that if the low end stuff is easy, well heck weddings must be as well.  

Sorry, but not wedding photography.  In no other form of photography are you forced to be extremely knowledgeable about photography and the intricate workings of your camera. In no other form of photography will you be forced to take pics of still, slow and fast moving subjects in the brightest and darkest of locations.  No other form of photography where the number of subjects goes from potentially one to hundreds. No other form where you must be able to capture the moment THE FIRST TIME, because there are no second chances.  No other form of photography that will physically cause pain and hurt someone if you do not do it right the first time.  All this happens in ONE DAY.

I have seen several ladies cry because they screwed up and used a family member to take the pics instead of getting someone who knew what they were doing.  

Is this what *YOU* really are suggesting the OP do?  Really???

Food for thought, people.  Peace.


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## rbraden (May 1, 2010)

Jerry,
Glad to see you are still around (even thought lurking now), and have finally realized that, yes, you do piss people off :mrgreen:


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## c.cloudwalker (May 2, 2010)

JerryPH said:


> You know, ignorance is bliss and it is uber-easy to talk about something even if you have no real clue about it, here on the net.



Must come from experience.

"I say it time and again... wedding photography is the most demanding form of any photography out there." What other types of photography have you done exactly?

Why am I not surprised you would come back to blast some poor guy whose situation you know nothing about? Not to mention his niece's situation. Maybe she doesn't have the $4,000+ you charge, maybe she doesn't care to spend this kind of money on photos some of us couldn't care less about, maybe she's seen your work and decided it wasn't worth the money...

I don't see a single question about that in your post. Of course not. With your infinite wisdom, you have decided there is only one way to do this, one way to think about this. YOUR WAY... or the highway. Do you even know what a UK wedding is like?

I don't. Never been to one. But no worry because your way is the way. :lmao:


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## rbraden (May 7, 2010)

JerryPH said:


> I am about to pi$$ off a lot of people.
> 
> "_OMG, I love the advice all the people who have little real experience or knowledge about weddings are giving_."
> 
> ...


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## c.cloudwalker (May 7, 2010)

^^^^^ :lmao:

That is why he hides on another forum where no one seems to know enough about photography to know what a fraud he is...


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## rbraden (May 7, 2010)

c.cloudwalker said:


> ^^^^^ :lmao:
> 
> That is why he hides on another forum where no one seems to know enough about photography to know what a fraud he is...



I don't know that I'd say that,  Jerry has some relevant knowledge (but prolly not nearly as much real world experience as he lets on that he does).  The thing is, you truly get nowhere by flaming people from the get go with no knowledge of their talent or vision (and he is a king of that), and ain't we all here to help each other in the first place?
BTW, wasn't he one of the first proponents of "The Pact"? 
I also didn't mean to instigate a thread jack.
Alwat, take the time to do you homework, rent, beg, borrow a backup body and a couple fast lenses, look at what some of the "hot" wedding photogs are doing (Jasmine Starr, Crash Taylor, David Ziser, and a plethora of others), get the required shots and some "signature" ones, and enjoy yourself.  I think with the right attitude and some homework, you'll be ok (won't be easy, but you'll be ok).


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## ralphh (Feb 26, 2013)

Seriously?  Advertising photography services on a photography forum rather than a bridal one?  That seemed like it was a good investment of your time?

I hope your photography is better thought out than the targeting of your adverting.... :er:


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