# Camera for beginner - budget 1500€



## max_b (Sep 7, 2017)

Hi guys, I'm Max, I'd like to buy a new camera, I'm a bit lost between brands and types (DSLR vs mirrorless).
I was first looking for Canon, like the 80D or something like that, but looking around on internet I saw a lot of people talking about how they switch from Canon to Sony mirrorless camera so i'd like your thought about that.

I'd like to focus on landscape, city/urban, architectural.. More than portrait...

My budget is 1500€, but I'd like to have 2 lenses, one generic, and maybe a wide fix lens for urban/city shots. 

I'd really appreciate your thoughts, ideas, advices.

Thanks !

PS: Please be nice to my English level.


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## jaomul (Sep 8, 2017)

Welcome to tpf.

1500 is a good budget. Your 80d is a good camera. Mirrorless is just a type, I would not get to bogged down on type.

A real good camera now (I have one but it's not the reason I recommend) is a Nikon d7200, excellent camera at a real good price. Add a tokina 11-20 f2.8 for wide with its 18-140 kit lens. Other brands are good also, just one option


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## Tomasko (Sep 8, 2017)

Ignore discussions about mirrorless vs dslr. DSLRs are still superior in terms of handling and image quality, especially if you don't mind the extra size and weight (however, some mirrorless are big too).

jaomul's d7200 is a good camera, while Canon 80D would be probably better for video purposes (though still good for photos too of course). It all depends on your needs.
Do you have any previous experience with photography? Do you really need a mid-range camera? Maybe some lower/entry level cameras would do just fine for you and you could invest in better lenses, as those are usually more important and bodies get replaced much more often.


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## goooner (Sep 8, 2017)

You wanting to do landscape and architectural etc. I would recommend a used full frame camera. The system is more expensive, but I think you will be able to get a used Nikon d600 or 610, and a good lens or two for your budget. Buying used equipment from reputable dealers is probably the best way to maximise your budget. You can also see how much a used Canon 6D, or 5Dii would be, if you prefer canon.


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## jaomul (Sep 8, 2017)

I respectfully disagree that fullframe is needed for landscape. In theory my d7200 had as much dynamic range at iso 100 as my d610 has. Just pick the right lens


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## max_b (Sep 9, 2017)

Hi,
(I posted a message yesterday but I don't see it... so I send one again !)

First of all thanks for you answers !

About the DSLR vs Mirrorless war, I heard that a lot of people switched from DLSR to Mirrorless, so that's why I wonder if it could be a good option for me.
I want to be able to keep my lenses set for years and improve it, so I want to chose the brand I'll keep for years.

@Tomasko size and weight are part of my criteria but quality is more important. I used to use an old Sony Alpha55.

@goooner I heard that full frame would be better for landscape and lowlight scene, but this is really worth it? (@jaomul )

For full frame Mirrorless I found theses : 
Sony Alpha A7II (Solo cuerpo) (solo ingles)
Sony Alpha A7II con objetivo 28-70mm (solo ingles)

And for DSLR full frame: 
(@goooner why used camera? I think this price is acceptable no?)
Canon EOS 6D DSLR Cuerpo

If I want a good lenses starter what would you recommend ?
I was thinking about a ~24mm and maybe a more standard one. I heard that fixed lenses get better sharpness, light and quality.

Thanks again !


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## goodguy (Sep 9, 2017)

Well Max both DSLR and mirrorless will do the job you are looking for.
I own mirrorless and DSLR, I have the Sony a6300 and Nikon D3300 and Nikon D750
You need to do your research to decide which system is better for you.
Battery life on Sony camera (except the Sony a9) is bad, also Sony have small lens line up and those are also very expensive.
On the other hand Sony's cameras are very small which is nice if you don't use big lenses on it.

In your price range if you don't plan on doing any video then I would actually recommend Nikon, D5500 or even the better body the D7200 or the new D7500, the low light performance on the Nikon D7500 is best in class (APS-C sensor size)
As an addition to kit lens to your Nikon body I would recommend the Nikon 35mm 1.8G DX which is a sharp lens good for architecture and street photography and is very affordable.

If you want Sony you can get the a6300 like I have or the a6500, main difference between these two models is the IBIS in the a6500, for extra 400$ I decided IBIS is not so important for me and I don't regret my decision.
With the kit lens again get the Sony 35mm 1.8 OSS, this lens will cost you about double of what the Nikon 35mm will (as I said Sony lenses are expensive).

BTW why Nikon over Canon ?
Canon 80D is a very good camera but the sensor in Nikon has better dynamic range, if you will shoot in RAW and process your own files you will see the extra dynamic range is a nice bonus especially in street photography, architecture and landscape, also Nikon has removed the AA filter from its sensor so you can get sharper images from the Nikon cameras.
Canon main advantage over Nikon is video auto focus which is a little smoother then Nikons, if you don't plan on doing lots of video the Nikon will be able to give you better results for your style of photography.


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## jaomul (Sep 9, 2017)

I think this is a duplicate thread, it must have went up twice


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## max_b (Sep 9, 2017)

yes, how can I remove one?
the other one has more answers : Camera for beginner - budget 1500€

@goodguy thanks for your answer, yes Sony looks more expensive, but I heard that a lot of people switch from DSLR to Sony mirrorless. I found this one : Sony Alpha A7II (Solo cuerpo) (solo ingles).
I invite you to join the other thread, sorry for that.


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## goodguy (Sep 9, 2017)

jaomul said:


> I think this is a duplicate thread, it must have went up twice


I just saw now OP posted this in 2 different places on the forum, I believe this is a no, no but then I'm no admin


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## goodguy (Sep 9, 2017)

Well Max both DSLR and mirrorless will do the job you are looking for.
I own mirrorless and DSLR, I have the Sony a6300 and Nikon D3300 and Nikon D750
You need to do your research to decide which system is better for you.
Battery life on Sony camera (except the Sony a9) is bad, also Sony have small lens line up and those are also very expensive.
On the other hand Sony's cameras are very small which is nice if you don't use big lenses on it.

In your price range if you don't plan on doing any video then I would actually recommend Nikon, D5500 or even the better body the D7200 or the new D7500, the low light performance on the Nikon D7500 is best in class (APS-C sensor size)
As an addition to kit lens to your Nikon body I would recommend the Nikon 35mm 1.8G DX which is a sharp lens good for architecture and street photography and is very affordable.

If you want Sony you can get the a6300 like I have or the a6500, main difference between these two models is the IBIS in the a6500, for extra 400$ I decided IBIS is not so important for me and I don't regret my decision.
With the kit lens again get the Sony 35mm 1.8 OSS, this lens will cost you about double of what the Nikon 35mm will (as I said Sony lenses are expensive).

BTW why Nikon over Canon ?
Canon 80D is a very good camera but the sensor in Nikon has better dynamic range, if you will shoot in RAW and process your own files you will see the extra dynamic range is a nice bonus especially in street photography, architecture and landscape, also Nikon has removed the AA filter from its sensor so you can get sharper images from the Nikon cameras.
Canon main advantage over Nikon is video auto focus which is a little smoother then Nikons, if you don't plan on doing lots of video the Nikon will be able to give you better results for your style of photography.


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## beagle100 (Sep 9, 2017)

max_b said:


> Hi guys, I'm Max, I'd like to buy a new camera, I'm a bit lost between brands and types (DSLR vs mirrorless).
> I was first looking for Canon, like the 80D or something like that, but looking around on internet I saw a lot of people talking about how they switch from Canon to Sony mirrorless camera so i'd like your thought about that.
> 
> I'd like to focus on landscape, city/urban, architectural.. More than portrait...
> ...



I agree, Canon will give you better "IQ" *image quality*, better and cheaper selection of lenses,  sharper images, etc.  but definitely look at the mirrorless camera options from Canon, Sony, Fuji, etc.  mirrorless cameras have all the features of a DSLR, they are smaller and lighter and can easily use DSLR lens
*www.flickr.com/photos/mmirrorless*


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## beagle100 (Sep 9, 2017)

jaomul said:


> Welcome to tpf.
> 
> 1500 is a good budget. Your 80d is a good camera. Mirrorless is just a type, I would not get to bogged down on type.
> 
> A real good camera now (I have one but it's not the reason I recommend) is a Nikon d7200, excellent camera at a real good price. Add a tokina 11-20 f2.8 for wide with its 18-140 kit lens. Other brands are good also, just one option



I agree, Canon will give you better "IQ" *image quality*, better and cheaper selection of lenses, sharper images, etc. but definitely look at the mirrorless camera options from Canon, Sony, Fuji, etc. mirrorless cameras have all the features of a DSLR, they are smaller and lighter and can easily use DSLR lens
*www.flickr.com/photos/mmirrorless*


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## benhasajeep (Sep 9, 2017)

3 - good cameras from 3 manufactures meets your budget and have been mentioned by others.
Nikon D7200, Canon 80D, and Sony A6300.

The Nikon D7200 is the top ISO performer up till about 12,800 where the Sony A6300 performs better (in testing, real life you probably will never go that high).  The Canon 80d lags the other 2 slightly in ISO performance the entire range.
For dynamic range it's the same story.  The Nikon leads with better performance till about 800 ISO where it switches with Sony being better above ISO 800.  Again the Canon 80d lags in performance in dynamic range being a full stop less the entire low to high iso range from either the Nikon or the Sony.
Color Sensitivity the Nikon and Sony run neck and neck for most of the range with Sony being slightly better through most of the ISO range, and taking the lead at higher ISO's.  Again the Canon 80d lags a whole bit of color performance the entire range from either the Nikon or the Sony.

Of the 3 the Sony is probably the winner performance wise if you will use the cameras at very high ISO's.  For normal ISO range 100 to 800 or so.  The Nikon would be the clear winner.  The Canon lags in almost every sensor measurement (IQ wise).

The Sony will also have the better video of the 3.  With the Nikon and Canon having near same specs.

The Sony failing is it's short battery life, and the Nikon does out perform it some at lower ISO's.  The Sony would be more compact than either the Nikon or Canon.

Source of info is from dxomark.com they test cameras and lenses.  Dont just look at the scores but look at the measurement graphs.  They give you a better understanding of what camera performs at different levels.


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## beagle100 (Sep 9, 2017)

benhasajeep said:


> 3 - good cameras from 3 manufactures meets your budget and have been mentioned by others.
> Nikon D7200, Canon 80D, and Sony A6300.
> 
> 
> Source of info is from dxomark.com they test cameras and lenses.  Dont just look at the scores but look at the measurement graphs.  They give you a better understanding of what camera performs at different levels.




I agree, Canon  may be the "top performer",  Nikon noticeably lags in most areas - "IQ" image quality, AF speed, selection of lens, etc.    that's *why most pros shoot with Canon gear*
but also look at mirrorless ... all the features of a DSLR but *smaller and lighter* and can easily use DSLR lens
*www.flickr.com/photos/mmirrorless*


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## max_b (Sep 9, 2017)

ok cool, what do you think about theses 2 cameras ?
Sony Alpha A7II (Solo cuerpo) (solo ingles)
Canon EOS 6D DSLR Cuerpo

Which kind of lenses would you recommend for landscape, cityscape pictures ?

for sony :
Sony DT 55–200 mm F4–5.6 SAM II
Sony FE 50mm F1.8

for canon:
EF 50mm f/1.8 STM
https://store.canon.es/canon-objeti...tm-negro/9517B005/?nav=lenses,telephotolenses


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## benhasajeep (Sep 9, 2017)

beagle100 said:


> I agree, Canon  may be the "top performer",  Nikon noticeably lags in most areas - "IQ" image quality, AF speed, selection of lens, etc.    that's *why most pros shoot with Canon gear*
> but also look at mirrorless ... all the features of a DSLR but *smaller and lighter* and can easily use DSLR lens
> *www.flickr.com/photos/mmirrorless*



Why not post your source?  What Canon is better IQ over which Nikon that noticeable lags in most areas???  Above was listed 3 comparable cameras with similar functions and pricing.  The Canon was clearly the lower performer by DXO testing.  And yet you say Canon better, Nikon worse.  But never post a source of your information!  If there is another site besides DXO that tests and lists their results.  I would love to see it for reference.  As far as I know DXO is independent and has no reason to favor one maker over another.  

Canon is clearly the "top seller" as reported by sales numbers.  Sony recently took #2 position from Nikon.


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## benhasajeep (Sep 9, 2017)

max_b said:


> ok cool, what do you think about theses 2 cameras ?
> Sony Alpha A7II (Solo cuerpo) (solo ingles)
> Canon EOS 6D DSLR Cuerpo
> 
> ...



Of the 2 cameras you list.  I would probably go with the Sony performance wise.


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## Derrel (Sep 10, 2017)

beagle100 said:
			
		

> I agree, Canon  may be the "top performer",  Nikon noticeably lags in most areas - "IQ" image quality, AF speed, selection of lens, etc.    that's *why most pros shoot with Canon gear*
> but also look at mirrorless ... all the features of a DSLR but *smaller and lighter* and can easily use DSLR lens
> *www.flickr.com/photos/mmirrorless*



Utter crap from an agent provocateur who just loooooooooves mirrorless cameras and posts nonsense about them, over and over.  The idea that Nikon lacks in ""IQ" image quality, AF speed, selection of lens, etc.  " is utter bullspit. Pure bullspit. Hilariously nonsensical, and well, just a total lie. IQ? Nikon betters Canon, Sony does too! AF speed? Nikon is fantastic! Selection of lenses? Nikon has every lens needed, and more, plus 50-plus years worth of earlier lenses as well. Canon and Nikon are very competitive on lenses offered. For the beginner to intermediate, ANY brand has ample lens choices.

Most pros shoot with Canon because in the 1990's and the early 2000's, Canon had better-performing cameras than Nikon had. But since 2009, Canon has slowly been falling behind in performance, but the cost of switching systems keeps many people locked into whatever system they started with, years earlier. And also, the major advantage Canon has is its marketing and advertising! Canon has had truly masterful marketing, and amazing, compelling television advertising for decades now--something that NO other camera maker has had. Canon's original success with televison advertising in the AE-1 era, and then in the film Rebel era, and then and now, in the digital era, conviced hundreds of thousands of people to go with Canon equipment.

In the 1990's, Canon's AF film cameras were better than Nikon's! In the early 2000's, Nikon's digitial SLR cameras were behind Canon's in sensor performance. But now? Canon has second-tier sensor performance, behind sensors made by Nikon, Sony, and Toshiba, and others as well. Still, one can shoot good or even great pictures with second-tier or even third-tier gear. The photographer is still **the most important** part of the equation. By far.


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## beagle100 (Sep 10, 2017)

max_b said:


> ok cool, what do you think about theses 2 cameras ?
> Sony Alpha A7II (Solo cuerpo) (solo ingles)
> Canon EOS 6D DSLR Cuerpo
> 
> ...



the 50mm 1.8 is good, the second lens is only for "M" mirrorless

Full frame is better for low light situations and "background blur" otherwise a crop model could be better (and cheaper)

*Join a local photography group .. www.meetup.com  and discover why most people (including the pros)  prefer Canon* because of the "IQ" image quality, selection of lens, focusing, etc.   But the newer mirrorless models are great   .... all the DSLR functions in a smaller and lighter body

*www.flickr.com/photos/mmirrorless*


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## goodguy (Sep 10, 2017)

Canon 6D vs Sony A7II ?
In this price range I would get the Nikon D610, its better then the 6D, it has same sensor as the A7II but owning Nikon you will enjoy the huge selection of Nikon lenses and the many other excellent third party lenses.
If you get the Sony A7II you are forced to get the Sony lenses, nothing wrong with them except 2 issues
Very few of them available and they cost 2 or even 3 times more then equivalent lenses you can get for a Nikon system.
So Nikon D610 is what I recommend if you thinking for full frame camera.


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## jaomul (Sep 11, 2017)

My only problem with your canon 6d Sony A7 set is both of these cameras are more expensive than the crop sensor ones suggested, and unless you up your budget you will likely end up putting sub par lenses on these.

You can get fantastic performance from a modern aps-c camera and good lenses, it would likely be better than fullframe and cheap lenses


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## max_b (Sep 11, 2017)

thanks for your answers ! 
I'm a bit confused about the canon vs nikon war, because it looks like a lot are pro Canon (professional wise)
@Derrel 'But since 2009, Canon has slowly been falling behind in performance, but the cost of switching systems keeps many people locked into whatever system they started' I get your point, but it's 8 years ago so I guess now professional should had time to switch if it's really worth it, no ? And Canon is still very popular no? Even for professional. 
I'm no pro Canon or Nikon, just wondering what's the best in my case.

@jaomul you say a modern aps-c would likely be better than fullframe and cheap lenses ? I don't really get why, I heard full frame are better for landscapes, low lights ... For the price, you think this is no worth it : Canon EOS 6D DSLR Cuerpo ? 959.99 € for a Canon 6D looks ok, no?

I get that Sony is more expensive, but in the same time most of you says the quality is very good, is it worth the price? I want to be able to keep it (body, but mostly lenses), so if long terms wise Sony is more interesting it could be a good possibility.

Is there someone who have both and could tell me what it would recommend in my case? That would be great.

Thanks again


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## Tomasko (Sep 11, 2017)

@max_b , forget about brand wars. Currently Nikon is ahead in terms of dynamic range, but that can change any time. All brands have their pros and cons, it's up to you what you need, prefer etc. For instance Nikon struggles with consistent results and had quite a few faulty cameras in past years, but Nikon fanboys won't tell you that  Canon on the other hand is lacking in terms of evolution and they hide behind their marketing. Sony is quite limited when it comes to accessories and lenses, and it can be really expensive comparing to Canon or Nikon.

Canon 6D is a fine camera, I bought it just few weeks ago for myself and I'm really happy about it even though it's quite old (introduced 5 years ago). The problem with it in your case is that you're on a quite limiting budget. To buy a GOOD lens you need to reserve at least $400-500 for a single lens, even for used. By spending 2/3 of your budget just on a body you will need to settle with low performing lenses and you won't be able to use 6D to its fullest potential. Usually it's best to buy good lenses first, because they will stay with you much longer than a body. Once you have a nice collection, you can switch bodies pretty much every year if your financial situation allows it, because bodies are not that "durable". Lenses can last you over 10-20 years without a problem, but you will need to switch your bodies often compared to that.

So, ultimately it's up to your decision. Pick a brand and unless you have a VERY good reason to switch, stay with it. Switching brands after you've committed hundreds or thousands of dollars is not cheap nor easy. If you can, go to a store and try these cameras personally. You will know which you prefer more, which grip is better for your hands etc. Also some stores offer camera renting (let's say for few days or even few weeks), so maybe that would help you too to make the best decision for you.

Once again, I can't stress this enough,  don't listen to people advocating "brand xyz is better!" or "dslr/mirrorless is much better!!!", because that's never just black and white. Don't forget that your gear are just tools. Pretty much any camera can give you great results if you learn how to use it.


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## max_b (Sep 11, 2017)

Thanks @Tomasko, base on your advice, I thinking about the Canon 80d again.
I found this : Canon EOS 80D DSLR con Objetivos 18-55 IS STM y 55-250mm IS STM
Is it worth it to buy this kind of pack with 2 lenses, or it's better to buy the body alone? Because of the low price of the packs.


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## jaomul (Sep 11, 2017)

max_b said:


> Thanks @Tomasko, base on your advice, I thinking about the Canon 80d again.
> I found this : Canon EOS 80D DSLR con Objetivos 18-55 IS STM y 55-250mm IS STM
> Is it worth it to buy this kind of pack with 2 lenses, or it's better to buy the body alone? Because of the low price of the packs.


That seems like an excellent deal to me. The IS STM lenses are well enough rated and also work well for video. This leaves enough out of your budget for a tripod, a cable release and plenty left over for either a fast prime or wideangle lens later if you feel it is required


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## max_b (Sep 11, 2017)

ok sounds great. I see everywhere the fixed lenses 50mm is a must have. In this scenario, is it worth it for the money left on my budget? f/1.8, f/1.4?
If I want to invest in a nice lens for landscape (wide lense), what would you recommend ?


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## jaomul (Sep 11, 2017)

You can't go wrong with the canon 50mm f1.8 stm


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## fmw (Sep 11, 2017)

max_b said:


> ok sounds great. I see everywhere the fixed lenses 50mm is a must have. In this scenario, is it worth it for the money left on my budget? f/1.8, f/1.4?
> If I want to invest in a nice lens for landscape (wide lense), what would you recommend ?



Unless you need 2/3 stop more exposure, the f1.8 would be the way to go.  Slower lenses are easier to design, require less correction and generally have fewer elements.  That means they probably perform better than fast lenses in the corners of the frame and deliver more contrast.  This assumes similar quality in both lenses.  And they cost less.  Amateurs can generally compensate by adding 2/3 stop higher ISO.


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## jaomul (Sep 11, 2017)

Nice wideangle- tokina 11-16 f2.8


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## beagle100 (Sep 11, 2017)

jaomul said:


> You can't go wrong with the canon 50mm f1.8 stm



right, a *refurbished* 50mm 1.8 STM .... $ 89
*www.flickr.com/photos/mmirrorless*


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## max_b (Sep 14, 2017)

Hi! 
Based on your advice I made this list : Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet
What kind of wide lens would be better? For landscape/cityscape, according to the body...
In the list : 



Canon EOS 80D DSLR con Objetivos 18-55 IS STM y 55-250mm IS STM 949.99 €



Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 STM Objetivo 102.99 €




Canon EF 40mm f/2.8 STM Objetivo 116.99 €



Canon EF-S 24mm f/2.8 STM Lente - Negro 132.99 €




Tokina AT-X 116 Pro DX AF 11-16mm f2.8 II Objetivo (Monturas Canon) 316.99 €


And it's not in the list I made but wha do you think about this one : 




Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM  283.99 €
instead of the 50mm f/1.8

Thank you all !


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## rosh4u (Oct 14, 2017)

max_b said:


> Hi guys, I'm Max, I'd like to buy a new camera, I'm a bit lost between brands and types (DSLR vs mirrorless).
> I was first looking for Canon, like the 80D or something like that, but looking around on internet I saw a lot of people talking about how they switch from Canon to Sony mirrorless camera so i'd like your thought about that.
> 
> I'd like to focus on landscape, city/urban, architectural.. More than portrait...
> ...


 hi,
As your main focus is on landscape photography, you can look around with these both  Canon EOS 5DS and Nikon D810. This both camera gives the best resolution for landscape photography.

Thanks,
Hope that helps.


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## darkblue-x (Oct 15, 2017)

beagle100 said:


> max_b said:
> 
> 
> > Hi guys, I'm Max, I'd like to buy a new camera, I'm a bit lost between brands and types (DSLR vs mirrorless).
> ...


I heard the opposite, that Nikon is the superior brand for IQ and that Canon's superiority lay in it's video performance.


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## Tomasko (Oct 15, 2017)

I wouldn't say IQ. More precise is "dynamic range", but most people wouldn't notice the difference and I'd bet you wouldn't tell the difference either in 99,99% of photos.
Any camera today would allow you to take great pictures.


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