# Critique Galleries now open!



## Overread (Feb 5, 2012)

Photo Galleries

Yes indeed we've our own galleries on the forums, scroll down a little ways and you'll see them, or follow the link just above which will take you direct to the galleries sub-menu. The galleries are open to members of all skill levels, beginner through to advanced and serve not only as a place to post photos to share, but for critique and also for general discussion on the gallery topics as well. 

I encourage all members to make full use of the galleries, especially for general posting and generalist commentary/critique on your work. 


I would also like to remind members that general photo posting and "critique this" posts are not suitable for the beginners section. Photos posted in beginners should be accompanied by details of the shoot and also specific questions regarding the photos. They should also be from beginners who are really at the start of their photography experience, once you've had a year or more its time to man up (or lady up ?) and head down into the galleries. (some of you might get there a lot faster if you work hard ). 

Furthermore I'd like to strongly recommend that people posting beginner questions regarding Photography Businesses should be "Shop Talk" in the business section, not the beginners section up here.
The Business District

Again all these sections are present if you just scroll a little ways down the site


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## Ron Evers (Feb 5, 2012)

I hate subdivisions.


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## Overread (Feb 5, 2012)

They've been there since you joined


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## Compaq (Feb 5, 2012)

I think it's good to be a little stern about this :thumbsup:


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## Bitter Jeweler (Feb 5, 2012)

I see. Nothing is new except that you are requesting ALL C&C threads to go in the gallery section, and beginners can post images that they are asking about focus, exposure, the dark spots in the sky, orbs, flare, etc...in the beginner section since those are technical, and not critique oriented? Amiright?

You are essentially removing the C&C aspect from the beginners section?

Coolio!

So, are you removing the "& Photo Gallery" text from the Beginner forum title?


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## Overread (Feb 5, 2012)

hmm no I never said they had to be just technical questions, but that its not for general postings of a photo with "C&C please" or any similar title/post content. That the posts in beginners should come with a specific focus in the opening post - some kind of direction/query that the beginner has and is hoping to get advice upon.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Feb 5, 2012)

Ah, then you haven't really done anything, and are just here confusing people.


Good luck with that.  :meh:


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## Ryan L (Feb 5, 2012)

But this is like the New York City of Photography in this section, where as those galleries are like ghost towns! It's social suicide!


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## luvmyfamily (Feb 5, 2012)

oops...was so taken back at "Madonna" at halftime for the superbowl....posted some in beginners...sorry :0


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## LightSpeed (Feb 5, 2012)

Ryan L said:


> But this is like the New York City of Photography in this section, where as those galleries are like ghost towns! It's social suicide!



This. ^

The beginners section is the best place on the forum.


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## mishele (Feb 5, 2012)

^^^^To start drama?


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## cgipson1 (Feb 5, 2012)

LightSpeed said:


> Ryan L said:
> 
> 
> > But this is like the New York City of Photography in this section, where as those galleries are like ghost towns! It's social suicide!
> ...



Oh? Time to take off them pampers and man up, boy! Come on over into the deep water.. you won't drown!! (maybe!)    lol!


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## Austin Greene (Feb 5, 2012)

mishele said:


> ^^^^To start drama?



:lmao:


Still...I now somehow suspect that what used to be decent galleries will now be filled with posts which read similar to the following...


=======

Topic: OMGZ I GOTS A DSLR, CAN I HAZ PRO-MODE? 

HEY PEOPLS! 

I got a fancy camra this xmas and wanted to know if i'm good enuf to start charging monies. Tell me wat yu think! 









THANKS HUGS AND KISSES XOXOXOXXO


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## Ryan L (Feb 5, 2012)

mishele said:


> ^^^^To start drama?



If this ^^^^, was in reference to ^, in reference to mine, I was only kidding. I joke I joke! It really is kind of a dumping  ground,  so maybe its like NYC where all the bums hang out and pan handle??


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## mishele (Feb 5, 2012)

No, it was at Light.


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## cgipson1 (Feb 5, 2012)

Yes.. I don't know if I want the Sacred Macro Gallery inundated by a bunch of OOF Grasshoppers and moon moths!  lol!


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## LightSpeed (Feb 5, 2012)

mishele said:


> No, it was at Light.



What exactly are you trying to say? If I may be so bold.


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## mishele (Feb 5, 2012)

Just sayin.....it's the place to start drama.


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## Overread (Feb 5, 2012)

Darn drama starting forumites!


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## LightSpeed (Feb 5, 2012)

mishele said:


> Just sayin.....it's the place to start drama.



Oh well I think I'll not get into this drama.
lol


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## cgipson1 (Feb 5, 2012)

LightSpeed said:


> mishele said:
> 
> 
> > Just sayin.....it's the place to start drama.
> ...



Oh come on.. it's fun! Where's Angel.. we need her special touch..  lol!


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## LightSpeed (Feb 5, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> Oh? Time to take off them pampers and man up, boy! Come on over into the deep water.. you won't drown!! (maybe!)    lol!



I'm not ready yet.
There's a whole bunch of people like you over there.
I'm still a beginner. I'm in the forum I belong in.
Some of those cats over on the other side of the pool are real good.
Getting a new D4 isn't going to change that either. I'm well aware.
Maybe one day.


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## LightSpeed (Feb 5, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> LightSpeed said:
> 
> 
> > mishele said:
> ...



I know. lol
I'm not gonna be the one to start it though.


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## Overread (Feb 5, 2012)

LightSpeed said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> > Oh? Time to take off them pampers and man up, boy! Come on over into the deep water.. you won't drown!! (maybe!)    lol!
> ...



If you wanna stay you gotta play by the rules


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## LightSpeed (Feb 5, 2012)

Overread said:


> If you wanna stay you gotta play by the rules



But bro, I do play by the rules.
Plus I help some of em out in the beginners forum sometimes.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Feb 5, 2012)

:violin:


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## blackrose89 (Feb 5, 2012)

Miss me boys? Lol I just got back from a super bowl party.


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## Austin Greene (Feb 5, 2012)

blackrose89 said:


> Miss me boys? Lol I just got back from a super bowl party.



It has...begun. O.O


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## LightSpeed (Feb 5, 2012)

blackrose89 said:


> Miss me boys? Lol I just got back from a super bowl party.



That was Gipson.
That didn't have anything to do with me.

Scouts honor.


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## blackrose89 (Feb 5, 2012)

LightSpeed said:


> blackrose89 said:
> 
> 
> > Miss me boys? Lol I just got back from a super bowl party.
> ...


I am Hurt! Where did all the love go!!! Lol haha!


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## blackrose89 (Feb 5, 2012)

Since everyone seems to like this forum the best, why not create a new beginners forum with stricter rules and just call this one "The break room" since people use this forum for kind of a general hang out for all types of threads anyway.  Probably dumb just throwing it out there


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## e.rose (Feb 5, 2012)

togalive said:


>



BWAHAHAHAHAHA!            

EVERYTHING ELSE IN LIFE IS INVALID!!!!!!!!!!



blackrose89 said:


> Since everyone seems to like this forum the best, why not create a new beginners forum with stricter rules and just call this one "The break room" since people use this forum for kind of a general hang out for all types of threads anyway.  Probably dumb just throwing it out there



Because then everyone else would just migrate to the new beginner's section and ignore the rules just like we do now.

I vote for getting RID of all the stupid sub-sections and just having a friggin' critique section.

But that'll never happen.


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## Overread (Feb 6, 2012)

Actually I have put forward the motion to have beginners renamed into "general" however it was decided that beginners was a subsection that is rather in demand and thus required, esp by many of our new members - and we didn't want to introduce another generalist subsection as well as.

However beginners does have a specific aim and intention, shifting many of the general chatty threads out of it its hoped that not only can beginners focus back on its main purpose, but also help promote usage of other areas of the site. At present its "popular" to treat beginners as the dumping ground - its a behaviour pattern we don't really want to encourage since it leads to a single section with a very fast turnover of new threads, which can quickly end up smothering those legitimate threads using the section.

ps = I've also campaigned to have a critique section added - however many of the more long term mods have memories of the critique sections in the past and how badly they ended. At present however we DO somewhat have critique - we've got beginners for entry level and we've the stated galleries for topic based photography and critique - its not like critique is banned on the site


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## blackrose89 (Feb 6, 2012)

The only other thing would be, and probably wouldn't make people happy because people don't like the multiple forums anyway, is to have to two beginners forums. Leave this one as it is, as a general discussion,CC and gallery and then have a beginners Q&A section specifically for beginner questions.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Feb 6, 2012)

:chatty:


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## thereyougo! (Feb 6, 2012)

I think there needs to be a separate beginner's gallery in the gallery section, and have this forum as just questions about specific areas.  Perhaps the Galleries section should be higher up the page since people seem unwilling to scroll down.  have it below foundations forum.

Lightspeed, looking at your insect pics you are far too proficient to be a beginner.


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## sm4him (Feb 6, 2012)

Lightspeed thinks he's a beginner?!?!?! That makes me the equivalent of a toddler with a camera then--just picking it up, chewing on it and banging it around until I accidentally happen to trigger the shutter.  I've been doing photography, to some degree, for over 30 years, and I called myself a "beginner" when I came on here, because I saw the quality of work of some of you--including Lightspeed--and knew I didn't measure up--plus I *was* a beginner at DSLR cameras.

I think someone should start a poll thread to see who thinks Lightspeed should be voted OFF the Beginner Island!


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## cgipson1 (Feb 6, 2012)

Oooohhhhh... this is getting interesting! lol!


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## Bitter Jeweler (Feb 6, 2012)

sm4him said:


> Lightspeed thinks he's a beginner?!?!?! That makes me the equivalent of a toddler with a camera then--just picking it up, chewing on it and banging it around until I accidentally happen to trigger the shutter.  I've been doing photography, to some degree, for over 30 years, and I called myself a "beginner" when I came on here, because I saw the quality of work of some of you--including Lightspeed--and knew I didn't measure up--plus I *was* a beginner at DSLR cameras.
> 
> I think someone should start a poll thread to see who thinks Lightspeed should be voted OFF the Beginner Island!



Everyone knows, if you want the most comments, you post in the beginner forum.
That's why it's the dump.


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## KmH (Feb 6, 2012)

Or at least the most eyes.


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## paigew (Feb 6, 2012)

I don't choose the threads I read by the forums they are in; I usually just hit "new posts" and click on titles that seem interesting. I don't see why putting photos in the 'galleries' forum would get less views or comments? I always choose the beginner section because I am just a mwac and I have much to learn!! I figured the galleries section was for 'pro' work....work worthy of a gallery !

And Lightspeed, you are surely above beginner skill level. Perhaps we need a "not a beginner but not yet a pro" sub section?


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## LightSpeed (Feb 6, 2012)

Great, the kick LightSpeed off the beginner forum , poll.
And then there's Gipson cheerleading the event.

Ok here it is. I don't think I'm that good.
I think I've gotten better, don't get me wrong.
When  I see the works of CC. Lockwood, EricD, Carlos58, and quite a few  others, including Gipson ( at times), Sparky, GsGary, RON EVERS, and yes  as much as I hate to admit it SOME of Bitter Jewelers stuff, even tho I'm not real big
on abstract, I know my place.

I never did comment on the natural light photographer thread for a reason. It is because up until recently, that's all I did.
I  just started playing with flash, and I'm not very good with it, yet. As  evidenced by some of the glazed CRAP I posted ( the beetle) , not very  long ago.
I have a professional system on preorder, in the Nikon D4  with accessories for macro, because I've been wanting a full frame  camera for a while.
Not because I think I'm pro, because I wanted the best image quality attainable for those times when I do pick up a decent shot.
Then of course I'll be starting all over learning a new camera, which I can pretty much assure you won't be pretty.
I  don't even know if I made the right decision with that considering  everythings going to change. The field of view, the depth of field,  focal lengths, etc etc.
I'm not even sure that full frame is the  route to take for macro stuff, or wildlife, birds in flight and all that  good stuff, which is where I usually am with this.

I still make mistakes. I still don't have all the equipment I'd like to have and I still learn a bunch of stuff from all of you.
I'll even admit , even tho I'm not egotistical or anything that the ohhhhh's and ahhhhh's in beginners is pretty cool.

But to poll me out of the Beginners forum?????
*COME ON!* *THAT'S NOT FAIR!*


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## Bitter Jeweler (Feb 6, 2012)

Look, LSpeed. Blah blah, been there, went through it. 
People complained about my posting in the Dump, and was forced out. I still felt, and I still do feel I am (well, maybe now "advanced" beginner) a beginner. I have a pretty firm grasp of the artistic side, but not the tech side. That's why I rarely comment on tech stuff.

So suck it up buddy. 


I hated it in the gallery section at first. Very, very few comments. So, I would post in the beginner section and get quite few. It sucks. It does. But if we are all adament about posting in the right sections, the place does get better.

The thing is, I think the majority of new people, just go to the beginner section, and those that have been here a while follow the forums via the "New Post" link. So yeah, fewer views. Whatcha gonna do? There are others that need to learn where to post their off topic, and just for fun, and photographic discussions, instead of the dump. But I won't call out blackrose on that. She'll figure it out eventually.


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## Ron Evers (Feb 6, 2012)

I like to rummage in the dump, lotsa good stuff here.


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## thereyougo! (Feb 6, 2012)

Rummage away in the 'dump' but it's disingenuous to post there unless a beginner or helping a beginner. I do firmly believe that the galleries are buried too low down the forum if they were moved near the top I think they would get more attention and the forum would work better. At the moment it's a ghost town because it's virtually at the bottom. What do you say Overread and Bigmike?  Move the galleries up!


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## o hey tyler (Feb 6, 2012)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> There are others that need to learn where to post their off topic, and just for fun, and photographic discussions, instead of the dump. But I won't call out blackrose on that. She'll figure it out eventually.



No calling out required. :lmao:


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## Overread (Feb 7, 2012)

I would like to point out that this thread has nothing to do with Lightspeed. 
There are many who are posting non-beginner based threads or just general photo/crit this posts in the beginners section.


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## vtf (Feb 7, 2012)

For this this to work will require alot more attention from the mods to redirect misplaced posts to their correct sections, will we see this? Eventually after we see our own posts moved we might follow the rules, then maybe not.
Just as a side note, I have received more views on my images posted in people gallery than I have here.


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## Overread (Feb 7, 2012)

It is getting attention and threads are being moved (certain people might not be helping this *glares are Mish and Bitter*) but yes threads are being moved. It also helps if members use the report feature to contact the mod team - we can't see every single thread and we might well miss some.


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## dxqcanada (Feb 7, 2012)

Overread said:


> Actually I have put forward the motion to have beginners renamed into "general" however it was decided that beginners was a subsection that is rather in demand and thus required, esp by many of our new members - and we didn't want to introduce another generalist subsection as well as.



The title of the forum is now misleading: "Photography Beginners'  Forum & Photo Gallery"

It should say something like "Photography Beginners' Help Forum"


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## Overread (Feb 7, 2012)

You know I never saw that Gallery part as confusing, but now its mentioned I can see how that addition can confuse people. I'll try to raise the issue and get the name adjusted a little.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Feb 7, 2012)

Overread said:


> It is getting attention and threads are being moved (certain people might not be helping this *glares are Mish and Bitter*) but yes threads are being moved. It also helps if members use the report feature to contact the mod team - we can't see every single thread and we might well miss some.



We just proved a point. 

I think you are moving in the right direction with this. Drop the gallery aspect of the beginner forum. We've been clammoring for a critique forum, and we have it. It's removing that aspect from another forum that will help this. But that will take work on your part to have it realized. That and member policing, such as the report feature as you suggested.

You will have to change the wording on the Beginner forum description, so it's understood that images can be posted when the poster is looking for technical help, for things like exposure, focus, and other tech testing purposes. But if they looking for a full on critique including artistic/creative aspects, they should be posted in the Gallery section.

Many of us have pushed for this, and even though the critique section is broken down into many categories, I think it will be an acceptable compromise. It will take careful wording of descriptions, some work, and a little time, but I think this is a good idea and hope you are successful in initiating it.


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## jake337 (Feb 7, 2012)

I've noticed good photo get attention and critique when they are good, no matter which section they are posted in.  If one gets no reply on posted photo, it just may be uninteresting.The problem is, well it's not really a problem, is that there are so many members that a post can be pushed off the first page of active topics quite fast.I'm not sure why there is a active topics tab as well as a new post tab.  Seems redundant.  Especially considering the new post tab has multiple pages.


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## PixelRabbit (Feb 7, 2012)

So, what defines a "beginner photographer/question" and what makes one no longer a beginner?  Is it time? Is it a level of knowledge? Is it a level of ability despite time and technical knowledge? When is someone expected to no longer post in the beginner's forum and move into the rest of the site?

As long as there is no clear definition of what qualifies someone/a post as "beginner" everyone will find a way to define themselves as a beginner and continue to post here.. because we can.


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## jake337 (Feb 7, 2012)

PixelRabbit said:


> So, what defines a "beginner photographer/question" and what makes one no longer a beginner?  Is it time? Is it a level of knowledge? Is it a level of ability despite time and technical knowledge? When is someone expected to no longer post in the beginner's forum and move into the rest of the site?As long as there is no clear definition of what qualifies someone/a post as "beginner" everyone will find a way to define themselves as a beginner and continue to post here.. because we can.


You missed the point.  The beginners forum isn't for critique.  It's for getting a better understanding of photography in general.  Personally I think once one gets past being able to get consistent focus and exposure, they should begin to focus on composition and post In the gallery sections for critique.


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## blackrose89 (Feb 7, 2012)

The text should be beginner Q&A. That clears up a lot of confusion. As it stands right now it's a gallery,  that's why it's confusing. It says "gallery", not "a place to find out how to improve on a particular image in the title .  Maybe "beginner  helping center" would be a better title. And then you should specify what classified a beginner because as stated above anyone will find a reason to classify themselves as a beginner  to post here.


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## o hey tyler (Feb 7, 2012)

Shouldn't this be posted in TPF News & Announcements which has a description which reads: "Information on changes, updates, or general news related to TPF."

Just curious...

PS. I can understand if you put it in the Beginners forum, because no one visits the announcements forum.


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## dxqcanada (Feb 7, 2012)

and on the Home page ... assuming anyone actually goes there.


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## Overread (Feb 7, 2012)

Strictly speaking this is more a reminder than a new feature - the galleries have been here for quite some years now


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## enzodm (Feb 7, 2012)

This meets my new year proposition of posting pictures on the appropriate galleries. And hopefully this move will bring also some people looking at them  .

However, be rigid (move threads) and you will be successful. It is reasonable, and who wants to see altogether, may just look at New posts page.


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## PixelRabbit (Feb 7, 2012)

jake337 said:


> PixelRabbit said:
> 
> 
> > So, what defines a "beginner photographer/question" and what makes one no longer a beginner?  Is it time? Is it a level of knowledge? Is it a level of ability despite time and technical knowledge? When is someone expected to no longer post in the beginner's forum and move into the rest of the site?As long as there is no clear definition of what qualifies someone/a post as "beginner" everyone will find a way to define themselves as a beginner and continue to post here.. because we can.
> ...



I'm not sure I'm missing the point, I agree(ish) with what you are saying.  I was just trying to say that there is no structure to this forum, the underlined part in the forum description especially makes it a free for all and the only thing that will change that is strict rules and moderation.  Left to our own devices we will not change how we use this section.

     [h=1]Forum: Photography Beginners'  Forum & Photo Gallery[/h]     Brand new to photography, or brushing up on some  of the basics?  Dont be shy!   Talk to other beginners and ask all  your basic photographic questions here. _  Show us some of the photos you  have taken so far and get some review -  so you can learn where there  is room for improvement!_



I've participated in enough forums to know that if management want to change something like traffic flow they have to implement new rules/redefine things and spell it out in black and white. Then they have to moderate the heck out of the forum to make sure the new structure is being followed.... All the while weathering criticism and resistance from the masses. You see we are creatures of habit and we tend to not like change. 

 Want to drive a good portion of the traffic out of this section and into the rest of the galleries?  Change it from Beginners to Learning then make set rules for posting a pic for review.  
ie. shot settings, what you were trying to achieve, what you like, what you don't like etc... 

If you want to learn you will put in the effort, if you want to just post the cool shot from last night and see what people think you will have to post elsewhere.


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## GeorgieGirl (Feb 7, 2012)

Gotta ask... If we are all here reading this and understand the expectations why does it seem like we don't want to comply? 

If new people to the site misunderstand what the expectations are that's not quite the same as now being asked to adapt and embrace the change.

I think this is going to be a thousand times better.


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## paigew (Feb 7, 2012)

GeorgieGirl said:


> Gotta ask... If we are all here reading this and understand the expectations why does it seem like we don't want to comply?
> 
> If new people to the site misunderstand what the expectations are that's not quite the same as now being asked to adapt and embrace the change.
> 
> I think this is going to be a thousand times better.



I don't think its a matter of non compliance, but rather the fact that many members (me included) do not feel their work is 'worthy' of the galleries, which are meant to be for 'pros', or experienced photogs. (at least thats my opinion on the subject)


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## kundalini (Feb 7, 2012)

PixelRabbit said:


> So, what defines a "beginner photographer/question" and what makes one no longer a beginner? Is it time? Is it a level of knowledge? Is it a level of ability despite time and technical knowledge? When is someone expected to no longer post in the beginner's forum and move into the rest of the site?


These are really good questions.  IMO, the answer can only come from each one of you, individually.  

Do you remember how proud you and your parents were when you had your first #2 by yourself?  I know I could not have been happier when my kids could wipe their own ass.

How long did you ride with training wheels on your bike?  Of course you will fall and scrape your knees a few times, but soon enough you will have the confidence to just jump on the saddle and ride off.

How long are you going to wear floaties and stay in the shallow end?  Diving off the high board is intimidating at first, but the freedom felt afterwards is well worth the effort.

How long do you want to be coddled with exposure and focus issues?  We're mostly adults here...... fill you Wellies.  So no, there does not need to be a clear definition.  It should come from within to achieve and excel.


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## mjhoward (Feb 7, 2012)

paigew said:


> I don't think its a matter of non compliance, but rather the fact that many members (me included) do not feel their work is 'worthy' of the galleries, which are meant to be for 'pros', or experienced photogs. (at least thats my opinion on the subject)



Perhaps we could have an 'Intermediate' level gallery to go with the 'Beginner' and 'Professional' Galleries?  I wouldn't quite put myself in the beginner category, but I certainly wouldn't place myself in the Professional category yet either... Intermediate would fit me well


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## Overread (Feb 7, 2012)

The galleries were never meant for anyone - they were meant for photos. Its only in the last year or so that photos have been allowed in the beginners section, and that was mostly a reaction to the fact that most beginner questions needed a photo or two to show what their problem specifically was (or to help identify it). 

However since then the area has become - lax. I'd be all for strict enforcement of requirements for posts with photos in there - it certainly makes it a lot easier to moderate when there is a clearly defined ruling as such. It's not my final say-so on the matter, but it is in discussion. 

There is - however - a general feeling that beginners should be focused more on the technical and operational side of photography as opposed to artistic - myself I can agree with that viewpoint (learn to use the tool before you learn to be creative with the tool), though I'd welcome input on others who might disagree.

EDIt
The professional galleries are here: http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/business-district/

The galleries linked to before are nothing more than the sites general galleries for all members of all skill levels.


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## enzodm (Feb 7, 2012)

kundalini said:


> These are really good questions.  IMO, the answer can only come from each one of you, individually.



My individual answer is: It's passed so much time from when I took my first dSLR that I have no more excuses, I'm no more a beginner. This does not mean I'm a good photographer: I could have well wasted all this time without becoming a decent photographer, but it is time not to hide myself behind a too comfortable definition  .


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## GeorgieGirl (Feb 7, 2012)

Ok so maybe a better characterization is apprehension rather than non-compliance. ...


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## HughGuessWho (Feb 7, 2012)

I am SSSoooooooooo confused. :er:


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## sm4him (Feb 7, 2012)

GeorgieGirl said:


> Ok so maybe a better characterization is apprehension rather than non-compliance. ...



^+1
I called Lightspeed out, mostly because it shocked me that he thinks his photos are "beginner level" and that made me think, "geez, if THAT's Beginner, I might just as well hang it up and make a chew-toy out of my camera.

But the truth is, there are a LOT of us--and I am among the worst of them--who are just a BIT apprehensive about playing with the "big boys."  
Honestly? I knew when I came on here that I am NOT a Beginner, though I had just gotten my first DSLR, I'd been taking pictures with *something* for 30+ years.  But, I also knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that I'm not that great. I'm okay, decent even, and once in a great while I even manage a shot beyond decent. But I'm NO pro, and not even an elite amateur.  
And diving into the deep end seemed like a great way to drown, so I thought it'd be safer to play in the wading pool. Until I discover that all the Big Boys were in the wading pool, too! 

So...I'm coming out. I admit, and I repent. I am NOT a Beginner, and I will NOT post photos for C&C in the beginner section.  I will--though the idea terrifies me--post them in The Galleries!
As long as we all understand, as enzodm said: Just because I admit I am NOT a Beginner, it does NOT mean I am claiming to actually be GOOD.


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## LightSpeed (Feb 7, 2012)

Like I told Overread, I should be happy about this.
It's what I worked for. To be better than beginner and be good at photography.
I am happy that I've gotten better, but I'm not happy being kicked off the beginners forum.

In reality tho It's not fair for the new guy to come in, who just got his first DSLR, and posts a decent image of a flower , or something, and then for me to come right behind him and post, what some may perceive as a quality image.
Never thought I was good enough to be ousted from the beginners forum.
That's where I've always been, since I've been here.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Feb 7, 2012)

sm4him said:


> GeorgieGirl said:
> 
> 
> > Ok so maybe a better characterization is apprehension rather than non-compliance. ...
> ...



Thats just it though...Plenty of beginners post in the gallery section. 

Critique you get won't be any harsher because you post there, instead of here.

The only thing it *might* do is lessen the "I Like it" comment from other beginners, who aren't savvy enough to give valuable critique.

I think this thread was started by a rogue moderator that tried to initiate something, without the ability to actually change anything. His posts are repeatedly misleading and *flip-floppy* as to the intent of the thread. To make real change, forum descriptions need to be changed, and he doesn't have that authority. So here we sit, confused. Nothing is changing, nothing is new. 

We've had this discussion several times, and we are told "they" will disuss it. Then, nothing happens.
Just chalk this thread up to being another dead fish.


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## AgentDrex (Feb 7, 2012)

Thanks Bitter, will do....


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## Bitter Jeweler (Feb 9, 2012)

*OMG!*​
It changed! The beginner forum is no longer a "Gallery"!

Overread proved me wrong and got it done!!!!!!!!

Let me be the first to thank Overread for getting "things" done! Including bringing back the monthly contests!


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## Overread (Feb 9, 2012)

Thanks Bitter 

We'll hopefully get some new descriptions onto the galleries and beginners section sometime this week as well. Plus we still have a "job" slot open for anyone willing to run the monthly Photos Challenge competition. Have a peek in the section for details and hopfully we can get that competition running smooth next month as well.


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## HughGuessWho (Feb 9, 2012)

Bitter Jeweler said:
			
		

> OMG!
> 
> It changed! The beginner forum is no longer a "Gallery"!
> 
> ...



So does this effectively mean "beginners" can no longer post pictures there and ask something like "how am I doing?", "am I on the right path?", "any suggestions how I might improve? "


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## HughGuessWho (Feb 9, 2012)

HughGuessWho said:
			
		

> So does this effectively mean "beginners" can no longer post pictures there and ask something like "how am I doing?", "am I on the right path?", "any suggestions how I might improve? "



And, what exactly is a "beginner"? Who decides who is a beginner? Not trying to be difficult, just, as someone relatively new to TPF, I'm a bit confused and I've been around the block a few time. Im sure many "beginners" will be as well.


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## Overread (Feb 9, 2012)

At present (though this is not set in stone) beginners might well be pushed toward only allowing photos posted with specific reference to technical questions. Eg "how do I get sharp shots" "how do I set my aperture" "Am I setting the right shutter speed" etc.... Originally it was such posts that made us turn beginners into a "photo gallery" simply to encourage people to post the problem photo up front since otherwise the early few posts were nearly always "Post a shot so we can see".

Clearly this somewhat backfired with beginners exploding into a general photo posting gallery to the point where we are getting this confusion over what is and isn't a beginner. Sorting things on the technical level is much more easily done and further means that we can encourage many to now use the galleries - which should hopefully mean that, with things spread over several separate subject groups, peoples photos get more exposure.


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## PixelRabbit (Feb 9, 2012)

Overread said:


> Thanks Bitter
> 
> We'll hopefully get some new descriptions onto the galleries and beginners section sometime this week as well. *Plus we still have a "job" slot open for anyone willing to run the monthly Photos Challenge competition. Have a peek in the section for details and hopfully we can get that competition running smooth next month as well.*


I took a super quick look and didn't see a thread about it ... just walking out the door to stick my face behind my camera but would like to express interest and toss my hat in the ring for this  (I'm here ALL the time anyway lol)


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## Overread (Feb 9, 2012)

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...ber-officially-run-organise-apply-within.html

There's the thread. I will say that whilst all members who apply will be considered, its a position we hope to be filled long-term rather than short, so those members who've been here a good while are more likely to get the position over much newer members (not that we don't value new members, but new ones have yet to prove they've got staying power on the forums )


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## PixelRabbit (Feb 9, 2012)

Overread said:


> http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...ber-officially-run-organise-apply-within.html
> 
> There's the thread. I will say that whilst all members who apply will be considered, its a position we hope to be filled long-term rather than short, so those members who've been here a good while are more likely to get the position over much newer members (not that we don't value new members, but new ones have yet to prove they've got staying power on the forums )



Thanks for the link and understandable.


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## LightSpeed (Feb 9, 2012)

Overread said:


> At present (though this is not set in stone) beginners might well be pushed toward only allowing photos posted with specific reference to technical questions. Eg "how do I get sharp shots" "how do I set my aperture" "Am I setting the right shutter speed" etc.... Originally it was such posts that made us turn beginners into a "photo gallery" simply to encourage people to post the problem photo up front since otherwise the early few posts were nearly always "Post a shot so we can see".
> 
> *Clearly this somewhat backfired with beginners exploding into a general photo posting gallery to the point where we are getting this confusion over what is and isn't a beginner. *Sorting things on the technical level is much more easily done and further means that we can encourage many to now use the galleries - which should hopefully mean that, with things spread over several separate subject groups, peoples photos get more exposure.



I got to thinking about it, and , " Does it really matter as long as everyone's having fun?
So anyway I came up with this idea which seems to be happening anyway.

Why not split the forum?
Have a beginners section on each side, and those who want to complain can stay on their side and complain.
And those interested in having fun WHILE learning can come over to the other side. The fun side. That, quite naturally,. will be the side I will be on.
See. Easy.
Problem solved.
I'm a Genius.

I wonder which side will become so boring that no one ever goes there, first?


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## LightSpeed (Feb 9, 2012)

Wait a minute.
I just thought of something.

I could use some tips with Landscape photography since I'm new to it........come to think of it I'm a beginner in Landscape photography.
Hey hmmmm wait a minute. Portraiture and abstract. I have never done any of that stuff!
I'M BACK!!!
I'M A BEGINNER AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Oh man! yesssssssssssssssssssss!


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## mommy-medic (Feb 9, 2012)

ROFLMAO! I love it! Can't wait to see your shadow puppet photography. And don't forget to dabble in dryer lint exposure.  You can make as many beginner catergories as you want!

In all seriousness though, for those saying "I am a little beyond 'beginner' but not yet 'pro'..." Isn't that what "beyond the basics" subforum is for? I'm curious because I have a pic I'd like to post (and that doesn't happen often) for some feedback. Is "beyond the basics" intended for something else or is it a mid-level section?


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## Overread (Feb 9, 2012)

Beyond the Basics has never been a photo posting section - its for discussion and expansion of more advanced topics than "how can I change my aperture" kind of things (which belong in beginners). 

Photos should go in the galleries - there is no quality/experience/years spent doing it etc.... limitations what so ever.


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## LightSpeed (Feb 9, 2012)

Overread said:


> Beyond the Basics has never been a photo posting section - its for discussion and expansion of more advanced topics than "how can I change my aperture" kind of things (which belong in beginners).
> 
> Photos should go in the galleries - there is no quality/experience/years spent doing it etc.... limitations what so ever.



You better do something quick then.
Because there's a whole bunch of em in there right now and they aint asking how to change their aperture.
I didn't see anything about shutters either.
lolol


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## Overread (Feb 9, 2012)

Like I said earlier its not a rule set in stone - and until we've got a firm choice and made the new description (and added it) there won't be any major reshuffles of threads. 
Plus considering the backlog chances are only page one and two will be looked at.


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## manaheim (Feb 9, 2012)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> Ah, then you haven't really done anything, and are just here confusing people.
> 
> 
> Good luck with that. :meh:


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## KmH (Feb 16, 2012)




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## Overread (Feb 16, 2012)




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## CMfromIL (Feb 16, 2012)

I read this entire thread, and am really not understanding much of it.


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## mishele (Feb 16, 2012)

^^^^^It's best to just back away from this thread slowly.


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## Overread (Feb 16, 2012)

Photos go in galleries  
It will all make sense once we get the new description on beginners (which should be out soon).


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## CMfromIL (Feb 16, 2012)

Overread said:


> Photos go in galleries
> It will all make sense once we get the new description on beginners (which should be out soon).



What if it's a photo of a beginner?  That could probably go in both?


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## thereyougo! (Feb 16, 2012)

Overread said:


> Photos go in galleries
> It will all make sense once we get the new description on beginners (which should be out soon).


Sorry Overread, but none of this makes any sense at all.  You've taken down the Photo Gallery part of the title and I can see very little difference.  The waters are muddier than ever if anything.  The beginner's gallery is still full of requests for C&C.  Not sure that decisions made by a committee are successful.  Changes that take too long tend to be ignored.  I've given my opinion already, the galleries need to be moved near the top, and make this a question and answer section for technical questions and have a seperate C&C gallery for beginners.  Also when I first saw the title for this thread, I went looking for these new critique galleries and couldn't find them.  Then I realised they are the same ones that have always been there.


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## Overread (Feb 16, 2012)

Like I said till the description is changed C&C is being left in beginners - once the description is changed over (I can't do it myself - plus we do try and agree to things in the mod group) I will make a move to shifting the content out.


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## KmH (Apr 13, 2012)

*B U M P!

The Beginner's forum description was changed over a month ago on 3/7/2012 - per forum member input.*


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## KmH (Apr 13, 2012)

Active thread


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## KmH (Jun 1, 2012)

Reinforcement.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Jun 1, 2012)

Honestly, I think this has worked out quite well.

Aside from random beginners getting lambasted for posting in the professional gallery, critiques of beginner work has been largely quite tactful.


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## KmH (Jun 4, 2012)

Cool beans.


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