# Fuji X-T2 or X-T20



## Destin (May 3, 2018)

Hey guys! Sold my D500, planning to buy into Fuji x series so I have a lighter system for backpacking/hiking.

I was sold on the XT-2 because its such a nice camera but with weight being a primary concern I’m thinking of going with the X-T20 instead for now.. it’s smaller and lighter. This camera will be used almost exclusively on a tripod with a remote release for landscape work so grip comfort isn’t super important to me. 

Lack of weather sealing is a concern for me. But outside of that, what else would I miss by picking the X-T20? What do you guys think?


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## Destin (May 3, 2018)

@Fujidave @jcdeboever


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## jcdeboever (May 3, 2018)

XT2 has bigger, better viewfinder. Weather sealed. Faster shutter speed. Better external control (opinion). Has a battery grip for it that will increase performance. The XT20 is lighter and has a LCD touch screen.


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## Destin (May 3, 2018)

jcdeboever said:


> XT2 has bigger, better viewfinder. Weather sealed. Faster shutter speed. Better external control (opinion). Has a battery grip for it that will increase performance. The XT20 is lighter and has a LCD touch screen.



Gahhh. I want all of those things. And I really want the screen that tilts both ways that only the X-T2 has. 

But I’m not sure if they’re worth the extra weight and size when I can get the same image quality in a smaller package. 

Maybe I need one of each!


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## AlanKlein (May 3, 2018)

Maybe you can get your girlfriend or wife to carry the heavier one.


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## Fujidave (May 4, 2018)

Destin said:


> Hey guys! Sold my D500, planning to buy into Fuji x series so I have a lighter system for backpacking/hiking.
> 
> I was sold on the XT-2 because its such a nice camera but with weight being a primary concern I’m thinking of going with the X-T20 instead for now.. it’s smaller and lighter. This camera will be used almost exclusively on a tripod with a remote release for landscape work so grip comfort isn’t super important to me.
> 
> Lack of weather sealing is a concern for me. But outside of that, what else would I miss by picking the X-T20? What do you guys think?



As you might know, I have both but the one I use the most is the X-T20.  It is lighter and a smaller baby brother to the X-T2, it is not WR but I never take it out in the rain.  What ever one you go for though you will love, try and get the XF 18-55mm with it too, best kit lens imo.


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## Fujidave (May 4, 2018)

Here are two links that might help you out, 1st is X-T20 and 2nd is X-T2

Fujifilm X-T20 Review • So good I bought 2!



Fujifilm X-T2 Landscape Photography


PS:  Both were Nikon users too.


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## Destin (May 4, 2018)

Fujidave said:


> Here are two links that might help you out, 1st is X-T20 and 2nd is X-T2
> 
> Fujifilm X-T20 Review • So good I bought 2!
> 
> ...



Thank you!


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## jcdeboever (May 4, 2018)

I have yet to run into a lens that didn't impressed me, some maybe more than others but all super nice. The 16mm blows me away every time I use it, you can use it close or far away. I'm not sure what your into as far as focal length for your landscapes. The 8-16 f2.8 should be coming out real soon. I see a lot of people use the 10-20 or the 16 for landscapes.


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## smoke665 (May 4, 2018)

Since you're jumping brands you could always go with Pentax. The K3ii would be in the same price range  Fujifilm X-T20 vs Pentax K-3 II Detailed Comparison  If the articulating screen is a deal breaker then the KP is the same price.  Fujifilm X-T20 vs Pentax KP Detailed Comparison  Pentax is legendary for its weatherproofing, the in camera stabilization is fantastic, the ability to shoot at high ISO, and pixel shift are the icing on the cake.


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## Peeb (May 4, 2018)

I had the same xt2 vs xt20 debate in my mind.  I won't have it for another week, but I went with the X-T20 with the kit 16-50 lens. I went with the cheaper, slower glass because I'm just dipping my toe in the water for now, AND the slower glass is smaller and lighter, which was kinda the point.

Here was my thinking on the cameras:

mirrorless:  TIE
X-system:  TIE
sensor:  TIE
processor:  TIE
cost:  X-T20
size:  X-T20
weight: X-T20
ergonomics: X-T2
dual slots:  X-T2
sealing:  X-T2

it was a virtual dead heat, EXCEPT that the variables above were listed in order of importance (to me), so the X-T20 won.  I wanted a small mirrorless crop sensor camera to compliment my FX nikon, and there is no nikon camera in existence that does this, so I looked to Fuji.  I'll use it primarily for travel, but I picked up a cheap nikon-to-fuji adapter that I'll play with.

I just ALMOST bought an X-T10 with the kit lens on ebay to see what I thought, but in the end just went for the newer tech.

If I really dig the X-system and nikon fails to get its mirrorless oars in the water soon, I could see myself jumping ship all the way to Fuji, but we will see...


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## astroNikon (May 4, 2018)

I nearly bought the X-T1, X-T10 but the technology jump is very evident to the newer 2/20 ones.
So stick with the X-T2, X-T20.

They both have nearly exactly the same features ... film simulation options, etc etc.  except no dual card slot, and some minor remote wireless differences, and of course the body size and EVF and touchscreen.

it really comes down to how much you want to spend and size.

Sold the D500?
Glad you keep that mini-body D810 around ... lol
why the love loss with the D500?


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## Ysarex (May 4, 2018)

You're a Lightroom user shooting landscapes so there's a can of worms that you need to at least look into before making the jump to Fuji. Fuji uses a proprietary CFA with their cameras they call X-Trans.




 

The X-Trans CFA rather substantially complicates the job of demosaicing a raw file and as a result there's considerably more variation in output one raw converter to the next. The info out there is very conflicted, a lot of it is really wrong and there's lots of strong opinions so you'll have to do some research and make up your own mind. Search Google with Lightroom Fuji worms to get started.

If you decide you want to pursue it further I can help.

Joe


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## JonA_CT (May 4, 2018)

You people need to stop with this.

Between you and @SquarePeg and @jcdeboever and @nerwin, there's something in the water. (@Gary A. is the primary suspect.)

I can't afford to have two systems. But y'all are slowly wearing me down. But I'm impatient, and I'd have to sell a lot of crap to be able to afford it. But I leave my D800 behind a lot.


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## jcdeboever (May 4, 2018)

JonA_CT said:


> You people need to stop with this.
> 
> Between you and @SquarePeg and @jcdeboever and @nerwin, there's something in the water. (@Gary A. is the primary suspect.)
> 
> I can't afford to have two systems. But y'all are slowly wearing me down. But I'm impatient, and I'd have to sell a lot of crap to be able to afford it. But I leave my D800 behind a lot.


It's a conspiracy. We sit around in a private chat room and do seances and chants. Slowly but surely, people start to enter the bright side. It's all about enlightenment, follow the light, follow the light. And yes Gary is the high priest. He is called Father Fuji. Peg is Sister Serenity. I'm  brother bonehead bokeh.


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## Fujidave (May 4, 2018)

Peeb said:


> I had the same xt2 vs xt20 debate in my debate.  I won't have it for another week, but I went with the X-T20 with the kit 16-50 lens. I went with the cheaper, slower glass because I'm just dipping my toe in the water for now, AND the slower glass is smaller and lighter, which was kinda the point.
> 
> Here was my thinking on the cameras:
> 
> ...




IMO both the XC lenses are great, they both do a very good job and very under rated lens.


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## Fujidave (May 4, 2018)

OMMMM FUJI OMMMM Fuji Rocks too


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## astroNikon (May 4, 2018)

jcdeboever said:


> JonA_CT said:
> 
> 
> > You people need to stop with this.
> ...


LOL
I keep kicking the can down the street.
Better than being the can.

I still like the portability of my iPhone.
FYI, with the Fuji I'd be shooting in JPEG mode most of the time as it's JPEG rendering is quite good Out of the camera.  I shoot in JPEG on my Nikons too a lot of the time now.


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## nerwin (May 4, 2018)

JonA_CT said:


> You people need to stop with this.
> 
> Between you and @SquarePeg and @jcdeboever and @nerwin, there's something in the water. (@Gary A. is the primary suspect.)
> 
> I can't afford to have two systems. But y'all are slowly wearing me down. But I'm impatient, and I'd have to sell a lot of crap to be able to afford it. But I leave my D800 behind a lot.



Sorry.


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## Fujidave (May 4, 2018)

I had heard of the so called worms and waxy skin, if you blow your photo right up to say about 400% you might find it all, I Never have and never will pixel peep.  Plus in LR6 I never use the detail to sharpen as I use my Topaz for that.


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## nerwin (May 4, 2018)

I've been using Iridient X-Transformer and it effectively removes all the waxy..wormy artifacts. With the latest Lightroom update, it's even better now. I don't even notice it anymore and I've been comparing my RAF files to my D610 files and there very little difference. 

I spent so much time worrying about these issues and after owning the camera myself, the issue is blown WAY..WAY out of proportion. Don't let it be a factor when deciding on buying one of these cameras.


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## Ysarex (May 4, 2018)

Fujidave said:


> I had heard of the so called worms and waxy skin, if you blow your photo right up to say about 400% you might find it all, I Never have and never will pixel peep.  Plus in LR6 I never use the detail to sharpen as I use my Topaz for that.



Waxy skin is an entirely unrelated issue and refers to Fuji's noise reduction in their JPEG image processor. I didn't mention that.

It's not a sharpening issue and although how you sharpen may or may not exacerbate the problem it is not the cause of the problem and does not correct it. Folks who address it as a sharpening problem are off target. The issue is rooted in the demosaicing of the X-Trans CFA.

Joe


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## Ysarex (May 4, 2018)

nerwin said:


> I've been using Iridient X-Transformer and it effectively removes all the waxy..wormy artifacts. With the latest Lightroom update, it's even better now.



No it's not. In the minds of many Fuji users LR has fixed the problem at least a dozen times. With every new LR update the Fuji forums explode again: "OMG! They finally fixed it!" and that comes from people who either a month before insisted the problem was a fantasy or that it had been fixed in the previous LR update. In fact Adobe hasn't done anything to alter the issue now in years. Here's a recent example from another forum: Raw converter ex to LR workflow?



nerwin said:


> I don't even notice it anymore and I've been comparing my RAF files to my D610 files and there very little difference.
> 
> I spent so much time worrying about these issues and after owning the camera myself, the issue is blown WAY..WAY out of proportion.



I agree but yet you are avoiding the issue by using an independent demosaicing app that addresses the issue. I'm very happy with my X-T2 and recommend it as a great camera, but, in case he is unaware of it, Destin deserves to know the issue exists before making a purchase.

Joe



nerwin said:


> Don't let it be a factor when deciding on buying one of these cameras.


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## Fujidave (May 4, 2018)

Like I said, before I got my X camera`s I`d heard of both, but it is blown right up and for me only I have never seen any faults or whatever you call them in my photos.


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## nerwin (May 4, 2018)

Ysarex said:


> nerwin said:
> 
> 
> > I've been using Iridient X-Transformer and it effectively removes all the waxy..wormy artifacts. With the latest Lightroom update, it's even better now.
> ...



I never said it was fixed. It looks better to me and a few others said the same thing but maybe it's just all in our heads but I noticed it straight off the bat when I loaded LR after the latest update.  But the issue is still present and so I still continue using an external raw converter. But I'm okay with this. Others may not be. That's fine. 

But yes, people should know that the fine detail rendering will be a little different than they are used to but for me, I'm actually seeing better details. It's just been my short experience so far.


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## Destin (May 4, 2018)

smoke665 said:


> Since you're jumping brands you could always go with Pentax. The K3ii would be in the same price range  Fujifilm X-T20 vs Pentax K-3 II Detailed Comparison  If the articulating screen is a deal breaker then the KP is the same price.  Fujifilm X-T20 vs Pentax KP Detailed Comparison  Pentax is legendary for its weatherproofing, the in camera stabilization is fantastic, the ability to shoot at high ISO, and pixel shift are the icing on the cake.



I’ve always liked Pentax, but they’re too big for my taste.


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## Destin (May 4, 2018)

jcdeboever said:


> I have yet to run into a lens that didn't impressed me, some maybe more than others but all super nice. The 16mm blows me away every time I use it, you can use it close or far away. I'm not sure what your into as far as focal length for your landscapes. The 8-16 f2.8 should be coming out real soon. I see a lot of people use the 10-20 or the 16 for landscapes.



Yeah I’m planning to get the 16 and the 10-20 to start. They’re both small and light and will make great landscape lenses. The 16 will be used to astrophotography.. though I’m also considering a Samyang 12mm for 2.8 for that purpose.


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## jcdeboever (May 4, 2018)

Destin said:


> jcdeboever said:
> 
> 
> > I have yet to run into a lens that didn't impressed me, some maybe more than others but all super nice. The 16mm blows me away every time I use it, you can use it close or far away. I'm not sure what your into as far as focal length for your landscapes. The 8-16 f2.8 should be coming out real soon. I see a lot of people use the 10-20 or the 16 for landscapes.
> ...



Prepare to be amazed by that 16, it's crazy good.


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## Destin (May 4, 2018)

astroNikon said:


> Sold the D500?
> Glad you keep that mini-body D810 around ... lol
> why the love loss with the D500?



The D810 is being kept around for portrait work and for landscape work where I don’t have to walk far from the car... at least for now. 

No loss of love for the D500.. it remains my favorite camera of all time. Love it and the files it puts out.. head and shoulders above any other camera I’ve used when it comes to ergonomics and low light shooting. But I’m not really shooting sports/events anymore so it doesn’t fit well into my shooting style anymore.


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## Ysarex (May 4, 2018)

nerwin said:


> Ysarex said:
> 
> 
> > nerwin said:
> ...



And I didn't say that you did.

You've acknowledged the problem is real and that you're doing something to address it. All I intended was that Destin be made aware.

Joe



nerwin said:


> It looks better to me and a few others said the same thing but maybe it's just all in our heads but I noticed it straight off the bat when I loaded LR after the latest update.  But the issue is still present and so I still continue using an external raw converter. But I'm okay with this. Others may not be. That's fine.
> 
> But yes, people should know that the fine detail rendering will be a little different than they are used to but for me, I'm actually seeing better details. It's just been my short experience so far.


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## SquarePeg (May 4, 2018)

@Destin get the XT2.


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## astroNikon (May 4, 2018)

SquarePeg said:


> @Destin get the XT2.


No, Destin get the X-T20


no, I changed my mine, get the X-T2
no, maybe ...

Just get BOTH !!


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## nerwin (May 4, 2018)

No, Destin, get the GFX!


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## jcdeboever (May 4, 2018)

nerwin said:


> No, Destin, get the GFX!


They're coming out with a 100 megapixel one in 2019 or rumor has it. They are also coming out with a cheaper version presumably, as well.


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## nerwin (May 4, 2018)

jcdeboever said:


> nerwin said:
> 
> 
> > No, Destin, get the GFX!
> ...



I don't need 100 megapixels. Most of us don't even need 24.


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## Destin (May 4, 2018)

nerwin said:


> No, Destin, get the GFX!



Gladly! I’ll tell you what.. you order one, send it to me, and I’ll send you a D810 in return.


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## beagle100 (May 4, 2018)

nerwin said:


> jcdeboever said:
> 
> 
> > nerwin said:
> ...



probably true
*www.flickr.com/photos/mmirrorless*


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## nerwin (May 4, 2018)

Destin said:


> nerwin said:
> 
> 
> > No, Destin, get the GFX!
> ...



Nah. You buy the GFX and send it to me and I'll send you an XT2


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## cgw (May 4, 2018)

I got the Fujicron trio and grips for a pair of new X-T1s--each about 1/3 the cost of an X-T2 now. The IQ difference between these tends to be oversold and is less consistent than the Fuji fanboys claim. Plan on shooting these relics till they break and then snag deeply discounted X-T2s when the next shiny new thing surfaces. YMMV, as always.


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## gasura (May 5, 2018)

Well, since you're planning to get both, I suggest purchasing the X-T20 first to see if it's lacking any function that you truly truly desire which the XT-2 can offer, then get the X-T2 to make your photography life fuller 

On a more serious note, I got myself the X-T20 and was glad that I did. I live in a dry and temperate place (in Australia) so weatherproofing isn't that crucial for me really. Slow shutter speed can be countered easily by getting an ND filter (a variable one is good), which you will need one anyway even if you're using X-T2, for long shutterspeed effects during the day (e.g. flowing water) and also for filming. Lack of grip? Buy a $20 quick release grip. I have to say that the next to nonexistent grip really took me a while to get used to. Anyway I just bought the $20 grip since I've started filming more these days.

Speaking of filming... Not that you have mentioned anything about it, but if you do decide to make use of their kickass 4k function one day, I would think X-T2 is the better choice, mainly because there's an option to add a battery pack which comes with a headphone jack. Plus a bigger camera with better grip just feels a lot more steadier. You cannot imagine how much pain in the butt it was for me to look for ways around short battery life and the lack of headphone jack (for audio monitoring). This is how you can overcome these 2 problems (once again, if you ever want do filming with X-T20):

The way to overcome the battery issue is to buy a $20 dummy battery that comes with a usb cable that you can use to connect to your 20,000mah (or even bigger if you want) battery pack. All of a sudden you get 16 times your original juice! Much more juice and much much cheaper than buying a battery pack.

The way around the lack of headphone jack is to either get a mic with a headphone jack or get a voice recorder with an input for the mic and output for headphone and camera (with a splitter). The latter gives you dual recording on the camera and recorder, in case either screws up.

Just to make your choice even harder, I sometimes wish I had just gotten a Sony/Pano instead, but I'm already 2 cameras and 6 lenses deep into Fuji. It's hard to turn back. Not to say I hate it in any way! It's just that the grass is always greener on the other side 

Oh and by the way, the Samyang 12mm is f/2 not 2.8. It's probably the fastest super wide angle x mount lens you can get if you're serious about shooting stars. Don't get the 10mm, it's chunky and slower.


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## gk fotografie (May 5, 2018)

Destin said:


> Hey guys! Sold my D500, planning to buy into Fuji x series so I have a lighter system for backpacking/hiking.
> 
> I was sold on the XT-2 because its such a nice camera but with weight being a primary concern I’m thinking of going with the X-T20 instead for now.. it’s smaller and lighter. This camera will be used almost exclusively on a tripod with a remote release for landscape work so grip comfort isn’t super important to me.
> 
> Lack of weather sealing is a concern for me. But outside of that, what else would I miss by picking the X-T20? What do you guys think?



Strange, nobody mentioned this possibility before, but I would choose the Fuji XE-3, the same features and possibilities as the XT2, but 500 grams less weight to carry, smaller and cheaper. The XE-3 has no rotatable LCD screen, true, but touchscreen and bluetooth (XT2 doesn't) so *REMOTE* shooting and *VIEWING* of images stored within the camera is possible by mobile phone, nobody will miss a rotatable screen.
The choice doesn't seem to be very difficult, buy a Fuji XE-3 and in a few months, when it turns out "Fuji" is the real thing for you, exchange all your Nikon stuff for a XT2 or even consider the new X-H1 for portraits etc.


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## birdbonkers84 (May 5, 2018)

But, but D500 is lovely and light 

My friend has just gotten a Fuji X-T20  planning on swapping it for his "heavier" setup of the Nikon D750 + Tamron 15-30mm lens.  He claims that all the crap he carries in his back pack was hurting his back.  I personally think its a case of G.A.S, buuuut that's just my opinion.  Anyway going off course, from what I've seen of the Fuji X-t20 is it is very "light" and considerably smaller, the lenses he got for it are tiny in comparison to his nikon ones.  The images I've seen from the fuji x-t20 seem good enough.


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## Destin (May 5, 2018)

birdbonkers84 said:


> But, but D500 is lovely and light



Stop you’re making me miss her


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## astroNikon (May 5, 2018)

Destin said:


> birdbonkers84 said:
> 
> 
> > But, but D500 is lovely and light
> ...


FYI, I sold my D500 a while ago.
Don't miss it either, but use a D7200 in it's place.  Well .. I did like the 11fps.


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## Destin (May 5, 2018)

astroNikon said:


> Destin said:
> 
> 
> > birdbonkers84 said:
> ...



Idk man, I liked the 500 better than my 810. It just didn’t fit into my workflow for the stuff I like to shoot anymore.


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## DarkShadow (May 5, 2018)

What ever you decide can you pick Up a Panasonic G9 to and send that one to me thanks.


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## Destin (May 5, 2018)

Update: cash in hand from D500 sale. Looking for a good deal on a used X-T2. If anyone sees one please let me know.


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## SquarePeg (May 6, 2018)

Fuji X USA Buy/swap/sell group on Facebook is the best place to find deals from legit private sellers.


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## CherylL (May 6, 2018)

jcdeboever said:


> JonA_CT said:
> 
> 
> > You people need to stop with this.
> ...



Converting one camera soul at a time.   I was at a camera store and had the XT20 in my hand, the sales guy would order the XT2, left empty handed this time.  On the way out my husband said the problem with you camera people is that you are never satisfied.  I did tell him it is like a tool kit...drill vs hammer.  And not unlike him a shoe and cologne and watch guy never satisfied.


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## Destin (May 6, 2018)

Update: I did some thinking and played with both cameras. Really like the X-T2, but the features that make it better than the 20 really don’t matter to my use case other than weather sealing. 

I decided to go with an X-T20 to save both weight and money. They’re on sale right now for $799, and it was hard for me to justify spending nearly double that for a heavier camera with features that I mostly wont use. 

I’m now wondering... do I get the 10-24 first, or the 16mm? I’ve located good deals on clean used copies of both.


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## jcdeboever (May 6, 2018)

Destin said:


> Update: I did some thinking and played with both cameras. Really like the X-T2, but the features that make it better than the 20 really don’t matter to my use case other than weather sealing.
> 
> I decided to go with an X-T20 to save both weight and money. They’re on sale right now for $799, and it was hard for me to justify spending nearly double that for a heavier camera with features that I mostly wont use.
> 
> I’m now wondering... do I get the 10-24 first, or the 16mm? I’ve located good deals on clean used copies of both.



16mm all day long, unless you really want it spread out. It is far superior to anything else I own.


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## SquarePeg (May 6, 2018)

Congrats on the new gear!  I have not owned either of the 2 lenses you're considering.  I have heard great things about the 16mm and also the Rokinon 12mm...


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## Destin (May 6, 2018)

SquarePeg said:


> Congrats on the new gear!  I have not owned either of the 2 lenses you're considering.  I have heard great things about the 16mm and also the Rokinon 12mm...



Thanks!


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## astroNikon (May 7, 2018)

Destin said:


> Update: I did some thinking and played with both cameras. Really like the X-T2, but the features that make it better than the 20 really don’t matter to my use case other than weather sealing.
> 
> I decided to go with an X-T20 to save both weight and money. They’re on sale right now for $799, and it was hard for me to justify spending nearly double that for a heavier camera with features that I mostly wont use.
> 
> I’m now wondering... do I get the 10-24 first, or the 16mm? I’ve located good deals on clean used copies of both.


If you have any lingering doubts, you can buy me an X-T2 and I can tell you what I think about it.


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## Fujidave (May 7, 2018)

Destin said:


> Update: I did some thinking and played with both cameras. Really like the X-T2, but the features that make it better than the 20 really don’t matter to my use case other than weather sealing.
> 
> I decided to go with an X-T20 to save both weight and money. They’re on sale right now for $799, and it was hard for me to justify spending nearly double that for a heavier camera with features that I mostly wont use.
> 
> I’m now wondering... do I get the 10-24 first, or the 16mm? I’ve located good deals on clean used copies of both.



Well chuffed for you and congrats on getting a great camera.


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## Fujidave (May 7, 2018)

PS: Forgot to say, in the Fuji camera thread is a link so you can use for all your Firmware updates 

For all Fuji Users


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## Destin (May 7, 2018)

Fujidave said:


> Destin said:
> 
> 
> > Update: I did some thinking and played with both cameras. Really like the X-T2, but the features that make it better than the 20 really don’t matter to my use case other than weather sealing.
> ...



Thanks man!

And update again: I picked up a mint 10-24 for $600.

I want a 16 but don’t wanna be locked into a single focal length for my first lens. I’ll pick one up in the near future along with a 55-200.

Thank you again to everyone who has helped me out in this thread.


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## Fujidave (May 7, 2018)

Destin said:


> Fujidave said:
> 
> 
> > Destin said:
> ...




I have seen some stunning Landscape shots taken with the 10-24mm and think you will love it.


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## pixmedic (May 7, 2018)

am I seeing this right? X-t20's for ~$700 on KEH? 
I might have to get one too...
been thinking of upgrading ye olde X-E2. well, im keeping the X-E2 i was just thinking of an upgrade for our second fuji, the X-A1 (which the wife wont let me sell because she likes the blue color)


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## Fujidave (May 7, 2018)

pixmedic said:


> am I seeing this right? X-t20's for ~$700 on KEH?
> I might have to get one too...
> been thinking of upgrading ye olde X-E2. well, im keeping the X-E2 i was just thinking of an upgrade for our second fuji, the X-A1 (which the wife wont let me sell because she likes the blue color)



KEH ?


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## pixmedic (May 7, 2018)

Fujidave said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> > am I seeing this right? X-t20's for ~$700 on KEH?
> ...



Used Photography Cameras & Equipment - Buy and Sell Online
i also use B&H photo and Adorama sometimes


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## Fujidave (May 7, 2018)

Just looked, $698 is not too bad a price for what I think is a fantastic camera.


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## Destin (May 7, 2018)

pixmedic said:


> am I seeing this right? X-t20's for ~$700 on KEH?
> I might have to get one too...
> been thinking of upgrading ye olde X-E2. well, im keeping the X-E2 i was just thinking of an upgrade for our second fuji, the X-A1 (which the wife wont let me sell because she likes the blue color)



Yep. $799 brand new or $650-750 used. I think it’s a steal. 

I just got into an x-t20 (new) and a 10-24 (used) for $1400. Which is the same as an x-t2 body only is going for now. 

Can’t conplain.


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## ac12 (May 7, 2018)

JonA_CT said:


> You people need to stop with this.
> 
> Between you and @SquarePeg and @jcdeboever and @nerwin, there's something in the water. (@Gary A. is the primary suspect.)
> 
> I can't afford to have two systems. But y'all are slowly wearing me down. But I'm impatient, and I'd have to sell a lot of crap to be able to afford it. But I leave my D800 behind a lot.



Done that.
DX Nikon D7200
m43 Olympus E-M1

Even worse, I'm thinking of getting a FX D750


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## ac12 (May 7, 2018)

astroNikon said:


> SquarePeg said:
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> > @Destin get the XT2.
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Actually, this is not as silly as it may sound.
A heavy and light camera of the same system. Then you use whichever camera is appropriate for the shoot.
The logic is the same in other systems.

Heavy D810 + lighter D610

Heavy D7200 + lighter D3400
Heavy E-M1 + lighter E-M10
I went similar, but I jumped systems for the lighter companion camera.
I have a D7200 and was looking at the D3400 for a light companion, when I don't want to haul the heavy D7200.
Instead I jumped to a m43 Olympus E-M1 for my light companion, for even more weight reduction + size reduction.
Even with the E-M1, I am looking at the E-M10 as an even lighter companion, some time in the future.

Get one camera now, then get the 2nd next year.


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## beagle100 (May 8, 2018)

ac12 said:


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OK. you're buying different camera systems every year for whatever is appropriate for the shoot
 yeah ...  
*www.flickr.com/photos/mmirrorless*


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## Destin (May 8, 2018)

beagle100 said:


> OK. you're buying different camera systems every year for whatever is appropriate for the shoot
> yeah ...
> *www.flickr.com/photos/mmirrorless*



Not quite. 

I’ve been a Nikon guy since I began photography over a decade ago and I love it. 

But I’ve had an eye on the Fuji stuff (and mirrorless stuff in general) for a while because I liked the photos I saw it producing and the retro look is pretty sexy.

But until I got into backpacking seriously (this summer) I hadn’t had a reason to add some Fuji kit to my collection. I now have a need for a lighter camera/lens combo, so I acquired some. 

Also, for me, collecting and enjoying different gear is as much a part of the hobby as taking photos.


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## ac12 (May 8, 2018)

beagle100 said:


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You missed the point.

A jack of all trades is a mater of none.
If the camera is too heavy, it ends up staying on the shelf, and you take no pictures. 
Been there, done that.  So I know first-hand the results of not wanting to haul out the big heavy camera . . . no pictures.

YES, you get the gear that you need, and it is NOT excessive, if done correctly.

You don't get every camera in the Nikon line, to fit minor changes.  In this case you get two cameras, on both ends of the line, the heavy 810 and light 610. or heavy 7200 and light 3400.  They use the same lens system, so there is no effect there.

I chose to go to a different system (m43) for even more weight reduction, so I took the hit of a new system being incompatible with my existing system.  However, the next camera in the progression is in that same m43 system, and all the m43 lenses will work on that camera as well.

If you are already on the bottom of the series, such as with a D610, there is no option within the series, and you do have to change systems from FX to DX to get lighter.


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## beagle100 (May 8, 2018)

ac12 said:


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OK, get a full frame camera and a  4/3 camera and APS-C  camera and all the lenses .. and a cell phone camera
you've got it all covered ...  until the next "progression" 
*www.flickr.com/photos/mmirrorless*


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## Destin (May 8, 2018)

beagle100 said:


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Hey, if someone has the money to do so and wants to own one of every camera on the market, who are we to tell them it’s a bad thing to do?

It’s not like I’m endlessly adding gear. I made a calculated decision to trade my current APS-C body for a small, lighter one that better suits my needs. The sale entirely covered the cost. 

Not that I need to justify my spending to a stranger on the Internet...


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## beagle100 (May 8, 2018)

Destin said:


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yes, no one is judging the various camera systems you have bought     .......  (and you)
w*ww.flickr.com/photos/mmirrorless*


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## ac12 (May 8, 2018)

beagle100 said:


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Already did that; 4x5, 6x6 MF, 35mm film (big SLR, small SLR, P&S).  
hmmm maybe I want an 8x10 next.


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## Destin (May 9, 2018)

X-T20 came today. Even after playing with it in the store I was still amazed at just how small it was when I unboxed it. I think it’s definitely going to be better to backpack with. 

But I don’t have the lens here yet. It’s really hard to have a new camera to play with and no lens to mount on it lol.


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## jcdeboever (May 9, 2018)

Destin said:


> X-T20 came today. Even after playing with it in the store I was still amazed at just how small it was when I unboxed it. I think it’s definitely going to be better to backpack with.
> 
> But I don’t have the lens here yet. It’s really hard to have a new camera to play with and no lens to mount on it lol.


Congrats


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## ac12 (May 9, 2018)

Cool   

10-24 = 15-35 FF equiv ?
I had to wait for my lens also.  That was an agonizing wait.

In the mean time, you can start to learn the menu system and configure the camera.  
It took me a LONG time to figure it out on my Olympus.  Each mfg has a slightly different menu, and they don't put everything in the same place with the same label/title   

Tip.  Keep track of your configuration changes.  When I updated the firmware on my Olympus, it reset the camera, and I lost all my changes.  Subsequently, I discovered that certain updates will reset the camera.  That is probably similar for the Fuji.
I'm going to do that myself for my Nikon.

Now the other stuff:

Spare batteries.  You are going to need a BUNCH when you go hiking.  Unless they make a solar charger that you can attach to your pack.

2nd charger
light tripod
remote release
etc. etc. etc.
N-Joy the new camera.


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## Destin (May 9, 2018)

ac12 said:


> Cool
> 
> 10-24 = 15-35 FF equiv ?
> I had to wait for my lens also.  That was an agonizing wait.
> ...



Yep, 15-36mm FF equivalent. Planning to get another lens or two as well.

I’m digging through the menu right now and there are definitely more options than my nikons have had, or at least it feels like it.

I had an update reset a Nikon body to factory defaults once and was devastated. Since that time I’ve always kept a copy of my custom settings on an SD card so I could restore them if it happened again.. not sure if Fuji has that option but I’ll be looking into it for sure.

Definitely planning to buy a bunch of batteries and maybe a solar charger. And I’ve got a shopping cart full of accessories on amazon

I’m like a kid in a candy store. I love exploring new toys.. errr uh.. cameras.


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## ac12 (May 9, 2018)

I would be wary of doing a setting restore, because the update may have changed the menu.  If so, a settings restore may not work properly.  Plus having to do it manually, lets you see if the menu has been changed in the areas that you customize.

It is a bit tedious to type it all down.  But the benefit, is that I can make notes about the setting; what it does and why I selected a particular setting.  This is important for settings that interact with other settings, as I can never remember that stuff.

I've been drooling over the Olympus lenses and planning my kit.  But I blew my "toy" budget for this year, so I have to wait till next year and a new toy budget.

I don't know about the Fuji lenses, but Olympus has two lines of lenses; a consumer and pro line.  The consumer lenses are smaller and lighter, makes for easy carry.  The pro lenses are larger and heavier, but faster and optically better.  The choice lets me fine tune my kit.  And I will probably have some duplication/overlap between the consumer and pro lenses.  

Example -  I have the consumer/kit 12-60 f/3.5-5.6 as my first/travel lens.  I compromised on lens speed and IQ for compact and light.   

The next lens in my plan is the 17mm f/1.8 (34mm FX equiv), for indoor low light shooting.


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## SquarePeg (May 10, 2018)

Lots of great info available for using the various settings on the Fuji X series cameras.  The Fuji website has a link for AF info. 

NEW AF SYSTEM SPECIAL SITE | FUJIFILM

Also the Fuji Forums have a lot of very nice people with a lot of Fuji specific knowledge.

General X Camera Forum

Looking forward to your review of the Xt20 and your first shots. 

Now you need to switch over to the iPad Pro with Affinity Photo app and you’ll be mobile for your editing too.


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## SquarePeg (May 10, 2018)

BTW. Welcome to the lighter side.


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## Destin (May 10, 2018)

SquarePeg said:


> Lots of great info available for using the various settings on the Fuji X series cameras.  The Fuji website has a link for AF info.
> 
> NEW AF SYSTEM SPECIAL SITE | FUJIFILM
> 
> ...



Thanks!

And... I had an iPad Pro for two years but sold it because Lightroom mobile sucked for my uses. Maybe I shouldn’t have

But I edit on a MacBook Pro so I’m fairly mobile still.


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## Fujidave (May 10, 2018)

Destin said:


> X-T20 came today. Even after playing with it in the store I was still amazed at just how small it was when I unboxed it. I think it’s definitely going to be better to backpack with.
> 
> But I don’t have the lens here yet. It’s really hard to have a new camera to play with and no lens to mount on it lol.



Congrats from me too, I am sure you will grow to love the X-T20 and I might even ask you for some landscape tips too.


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## Destin (May 10, 2018)

Fujidave said:


> Destin said:
> 
> 
> > X-T20 came today. Even after playing with it in the store I was still amazed at just how small it was when I unboxed it. I think it’s definitely going to be better to backpack with.
> ...



I haven’t taken a single photo with it yet and it already has me considering selling all my Nikon gear. 

Damnit this wasn’t supposed to happen.


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## cgw (May 10, 2018)

I keep a small recipe book with settings, film sim adjustments, and anything else likely to flummox  in the menus. Think you'll be very happy with your new toy. Just got the 23/2 WR today I've yet to pick-up from the store. Love the 35/2 and 50/2.


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## ac12 (May 10, 2018)

Destin said:


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Hang in there.  Use the Fuji for at least 6 months.  Then the enthusiasm of the new camera will wear off, and reality of what the camera can and cannot do, will then set in.  At that point you can make a better decision.

To me each camera system has its strengths and weaknesses.  If you cull down to only one camera, then it becomes a "jack of all trades."  Then the issue is, will it be "a master of none."  Well maybe a master of only one, and a compromise on the other.
This is why to me, I will have a P&S, a m43, and a dslr.  Each system is able to do a task that the other cannot do, or cannot do well.  

You could migrate the Fuji to be your primary camera and make the D810 your secondary camera.
Or keep the Fuji as your secondary hiking system.

BTW, that "new camera/toy" effect has hit me as well.  I am toying with getting more Olympus m43 lenses, to flesh out that system.  But, I am going slowly, because I know I am going through a "new camera/toy" syndrome.  And I don't know if the Olympus will be promoted to be my primary system, or stay as my secondary system.


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## Destin (May 10, 2018)

ac12 said:


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Yeah I’m definitely taking it slow. 

I’ve got a few weddings booked this summer that I’m definitely still using the 810 for as my main body, I won’t use a new camera format for critical work for a long time. I’ve gotta be super familiar with it first. 

But I am already planning to get some more lenses for it. 

The 10-24 actually just came today (arrived early) and I’m loving it, but definitely need a more standard focal length to really evaluate the camera as well.


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## Destin (May 10, 2018)

Alright, this will be the last update in this thread I think. 

Just wanted to share my first few photos from the camera/lens combo and give my very initial impressions. 

*Likes: *

Image quality
Low distortion for an UWA lens
Sharp!!!
Film Sims are fun to play with and the jpeg engine as as good as I've heard so far
Small/Light
Sexiness - Love the look of it. 
*Dislikes:*

10-24 feels disproportionately huge on the X-T20, but it's likely the largest lens I'll be using on Fuji
Lag: While the controls and viewfinder are quick, it just doesn't respond instantaneously like my pro Nikons do. I understand there is a massive price difference, and I knew this going in, but still have to mention it. For the type of shooting I bought it for, this is a non-issue. 
Images:

1.) Comparing focal lengths. 24mm:



XT20_Test-1 by Destin Danser, on Flickr

2.) Comparing focal lengths. 16mm:



XT20_Test-2 by Destin Danser, on Flickr


3.) Comparing focal lengths. 10mm:



XT20_Test-3 by Destin Danser, on Flickr

4.) Quick shot of my car, just playing around. Maybe a little oversaturated with this film sim (velvia) but I like it. 



XT20_Test-4 by Destin Danser, on Flickr

I'll be starting a new thread sometime in the (near?) future once I've had a chance to take it out on a few shoots and spend some real time with it. *HUGE* thank you again to everyone who has helped me to make decisions through this process. I love having you guys to bounce ideas and questions off of.


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## SquarePeg (May 11, 2018)

Destin said:


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The 35 f/2 is super fast and light would make a great complement to your 10-24.  It’s fairly cheap too.


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## Destin (May 11, 2018)

SquarePeg said:


> Destin said:
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I’m going to order another lens today. I’m debating between the 35 f/2 and the 50 f/2. I know the 50 is a little long for a walk around lens, but I never really used the 50mm focal length on my full frame because it was a little wider than I like. 

In all honesty, I really want both of them. And the 16. And the 55-200. But my wallet isn’t a fan of that idea.


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## jcdeboever (May 11, 2018)

Consider a used 60mm f/2.4 macro as well. Tack sharp, excellent micro contrast. I sold mine because I bought the 80 and 56. I kind of miss it. I got real used to the focal length. It was an amazing black & white lens due to the impressive micro contrast (like the 16). I used it mostly as a normal lens and was very handy because you could close when needed. The 18-135 is considered the most useful walk around but I don't own it. I lean towards primes a lot.


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## SquarePeg (May 11, 2018)

Destin said:


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You can always crop in on the 35, you can’t crop out on the 50.


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## cgw (May 11, 2018)

Take Kayo is among the more grounded Fuji shooters online. His lens reviews are worth a look.

bigheadtaco.com: fujifilm


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## Fujidave (May 11, 2018)

Destin said:


> SquarePeg said:
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The XF 35mm f2 is just a fantastic little lens, well it is for me.


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## SquarePeg (May 11, 2018)

Fujidave said:


> The XF 35mm f2 is just a fantastic little lens, well it is for me.



It’s so fast!  The first couple of times I used it I thought the AF wasn’t working because there was no hesitation for focus.  I had to point the lens at something much further  away and then focus then bring it back to my subject and focus again to believe it was working.


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## ac12 (May 11, 2018)

Destin said:


> I’m going to order another lens today. I’m debating between the 35 f/2 and the 50 f/2. I know the 50 is a little long for a walk around lens, but I never really used the 50mm focal length on my full frame because it was a little wider than I like.
> 
> In all honesty, I really want both of them. And the 16. And the 55-200. But my wallet isn’t a fan of that idea.



Think about how you plan to use it.
For my f/1.8 prime, the planned use was low light.  And I figured it would be used indoor where space might be an issue.  So with that logic, I decided that a wider 35mm equivalent would be better than a 50mm normal lens equivalent.

On my DX D7200, I have the normal lens equivalent DX 35mm f/1.8, cuz Nikon does not make a DX 24mm f/1.8.  And I did not want to pay $700 for the FX 24mm f/1.8.  I don't use the lens enough to justify spending a lot for it.


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## Derrel (May 11, 2018)

I can simply not imagine anyone serious about landscapes going to a Fuji camera for high detail work in the small camera size. The lack of detail is very apparent on many scenes. A Nikon or Canon or Sony full frame cannot be beaten for detail Nand crop-capability in a smallish and affordable camera. Fuji' small sensor cameras are just nowhere near the right tool for landscape work. I personally think they are also kind of lacking in macro work as well, but then I prefer high detail rather than pretty colors straight out of camera. In the past I've owned four different Fuji DSLR cameras, and every single one of them suffered from the Fuji problem of beautiful color but lower than class resolving power for its era of production.

U see online a lot of people saying "oh my Fuji is just as good as a big Sony or big Nikon!" For landscape work? No, it's not. But it is small and light and nimble, and there is that benefit.


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## jcdeboever (May 11, 2018)

Derrel said:


> I can simply not imagine anyone serious about landscapes going to a Fuji camera for high detail work in the small camera size. The lack of detail is very apparent on many scenes. A Nikon or Canon or Sony full frame cannot be beaten for detail Nand crop-capability in a smallish and affordable camera. Fuji' small sensor cameras are just nowhere near the right tool for landscape work. I personally think they are also kind of lacking in macro work as well, but then I prefer high detail rather than pretty colors straight out of camera. In the past I've owned four different Fuji DSLR cameras, and every single one of them suffered from the Fuji problem of beautiful color but lower than class resolving power for its era of production.
> 
> U see online a lot of people saying "oh my Fuji is just as good as a big Sony or big Nikon!" For landscape work? No, it's not. But it is small and light and nimble, and there is that benefit.


I agree for the most part. I don't shoot landscapes and if I was into it, I would go with the larger format sensor, AKA Fujifilm gfx. Far as macro, the new 80 mm macro was long overdue for the system, and it appears to have incredible resolution. However, the professional macro work definitely benefits from a larger sensor, AKA gfx. In my opinion, Fuji X is a great all-around camera, good at just about everything but a master of none, like my work.


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## Fujidave (May 11, 2018)

I`ve seen some pretty fantastic landscapes taken with either the X-T2 and X-T20, so imo if the camera is in the right hands then your good to go.  On macro shots I think the same too.


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## cgw (May 11, 2018)

The 23/2 WR is supposed to be a touch faster. There's just so little mass to move around inside the f2 Fujicrons.


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## cgw (May 11, 2018)

Derrel said:


> I can simply not imagine anyone serious about landscapes going to a Fuji camera for high detail work in the small camera size. The lack of detail is very apparent on many scenes. A Nikon or Canon or Sony full frame cannot be beaten for detail Nand crop-capability in a smallish and affordable camera. Fuji' small sensor cameras are just nowhere near the right tool for landscape work. I personally think they are also kind of lacking in macro work as well, but then I prefer high detail rather than pretty colors straight out of camera. In the past I've owned four different Fuji DSLR cameras, and every single one of them suffered from the Fuji problem of beautiful color but lower than class resolving power for its era of production.
> 
> U see online a lot of people saying "oh my Fuji is just as good as a big Sony or big Nikon!" For landscape work? No, it's not. But it is small and light and nimble, and there is that benefit.



 I'm guessing pro landscape shooters were among the markets Fuji targeted for their big sensor GFX system.


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## Derrel (May 11, 2018)

I think that for many types of people-centric pictures (portraiture, figure studies, nudes, events,weddings, whatever 'people' might be doing) there's not a lot of need for high resolution or a tremendous amount of fine detail...plenty of good pictures can be made with an iPhone, or a 6-,8-,10,or 12-megapixel camera, or a 16-megapixel camera let's say...but I really think that when huge expanses of real estate are imaged, that pixel-level detail becomes a very "big deal", and that's where high-resolution,high-megapixel sensors give the photographer some genuine opportunities to reveal details with 36- or 45- or even 50-megapixel or higher sensors that have solid, proven demosaic routines from software developers like Adobe, and where there are well-perfected, well-optimized routines that preserve details in the raw file data that users capture.

When one looks at tree limbs and flower stalks and strong outlines and edges and there's jagged, extrapolated, "predicted" data that shows up as jaggies...I'm not sold on building a landscape or high-detail imaging setup around that kind of a sensor. I went through it with the Fuji S2 Pro d-slr; 6 MP sensor, data up-rezzd to 12-megapixel, jaggies, badly-optimized software from Adobe, bad raw conversion software options, but GREAT color! I dunno...

But still, for "people pictures", I think resolution is not the highest priority for most users....color and tone response are easily seen, and Fuji'd done well with its SOOC JPEG routines, yet still...I see a lot of excessive saturation and too-dense shadows in a lot of their SOOC pictures.

The Fuji GFX camera is interesting--I was a member of the GFX Facebook group for about a year, saw a few thousand images made with it; it's real strength is its adaptability to THOUSANDS of legacy 35mm and medium format system lenses! Lenses,lenses,lenses. However, the image quality is about what a D810 can do, and the D850 offers as good or better IQ. It's really about a wash, a tie, between the mezzo-format, pseudo-medium-format big-sensor cams from Fuji and Pentax and the new crop of the highest-MP Canon and Sony and Nikon cameras.


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## Derrel (May 11, 2018)

cgw said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> > I can simply not imagine anyone serious about landscapes going to a Fuji camera for high detail work in the small camera size. The lack of detail is very apparent on many scenes. A Nikon or Canon or Sony full frame cannot be beaten for detail Nand crop-capability in a smallish and affordable camera. Fuji' small sensor cameras are just nowhere near the right tool for landscape work. I personally think they are also kind of lacking in macro work as well, but then I prefer high detail rather than pretty colors straight out of camera. In the past I've owned four different Fuji DSLR cameras, and every single one of them suffered from the Fuji problem of beautiful color but lower than class resolving power for its era of production.
> ...



Lots of enthusiastic glamour/portrait/boudoir shooters also went for the GFX. The GFX Facebook groups showcased the work of users from all over the world. The KEY to the GFX is/was its adaptability to so,so,so many legacy 35mm lenses, and Medium-format legacy lenses. Since the GFX is a "mezzo-format" sized sensor, the 35mm system lenses from Canon,.Nikon,Pentax,Yashica/Contax,etc.etc have plenty large of an image circle to cover that sensor, so...

From what I saw, the majority of GFX users were enthusiasts,as opposed to "pro" shooters. There was a LOT of interest in the GFX from Japan and from Europe, and also North America. it did very well with so many classic 35mm system lenses, as well as MF stuff from various makers. What hurt the GFX's sales the most were the 36-MP Sony sensors in Nikon and Sony bodies at thousands of dollars less, and then the 50-MP Canon option.


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## cgw (May 11, 2018)

Well-heeled enthusiasts, indeed. I bummed around some of the GFX coming-out parties and follow-up studio sessions around Toronto and saw mainly pros and established agency depts. getting buttered up. Fuji made no bones about this being a "pro" system. It's easy here to kiss good-bye just shy of 20 large for a basic rig though incentives have eased the pain.

I keep hearing that Fuji wasn't bowled over by GFX sales. They still appear to be keen to bring out a "stripped" GFX and branded adapters now that they've a better sense of who buys what around that price-point.

Agree that the sensor size is curious but if they make it cheaper and/or cook-up a truly big sensor and killer supporting chippery, they may just dominate a small but lucrative market. Lord knows, they work hard enough for the money.


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## ac12 (May 11, 2018)

I think they have that big sensor in the current Hasselblad.
But $$$$$


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## jcdeboever (May 11, 2018)

Supposedly, they're coming out with an over oversized X-Pro body with the medium sized sensor, around the D850 price range next year.


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## paul'dee'dowling (Aug 13, 2018)

Derrel-
Interesting point about high resolution for landscapes etc compared to portraits and , in my case architecture , cars and houses .
It's the colours from an old Ccd Sony A290 / 35mm  and Fuji XT-1 18-55mm and X-Pro1 27mm which attract me , resolution and the intricacies of menu etc are less important.
I actually paid less than less than £800 for the ex-dem Fujis , so a no brainer for me .


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