# Why aren't these shots in focus?



## crotonmark (Nov 24, 2012)

Help Please !!
Shooting with a Canon T4i
Using a 35/105 mm lens
In all cases I used a center focus point
In all cases the camera beeped to tell me it was in focus
In all cases when I look at the photos they don't seem sharp
What am I doing wrong?
This is starting to drive me mad

thanks - Mark


----------



## usayit (Nov 24, 2012)

1/13th of a second at 105mm focal length... was this handheld?


----------



## SCraig (Nov 24, 2012)

It's not out of focus, it's motion blur.  Unless you were using a tripod your shutter speed was far too slow.  I only looked at a couple of them but the shutter speed was 1/13 second which is much to slow to shoot hand-held.   You were only at ISO 200 and didn't use a flash, so my recommendation would be to up the ISO to whatever you can stand which will allow you to use a faster shutter speed.


----------



## Bitter Jeweler (Nov 24, 2012)

Probably because you moved during a slow shutter speed.

What was your shutter speed and aperture on these?


----------



## 480sparky (Nov 24, 2012)

Focal Length: 105mm
Exposure Time: 0.077 s (1/13)
ISO equiv: 200


Focal Length: 35mm
Aperture: f/5.6
Exposure Time: 0.100 s (1/10)
ISO equiv: 200


Focal Length: 35mm
Aperture: f/3.5
Exposure Time: 0.040 s (1/25)
ISO equiv: 200


Focal Length: 35mm
Aperture: f/5.6
Exposure Time: 0.077 s (1/13)
ISO equiv: 200


----------



## KmH (Nov 24, 2012)

What you are seeing is small photographer induced camera motion and is more commonly termed 'camera shake'. 'Motion blur' is blur induced by subject movement.

The rule of thumb for hand-held shutter speed is 1/focal length of the lens.

At 35 mm *at least* 1/35 and good camera holding technique is needed to minimize the chances of  camera shake blur, but a somewhat faster shutter speed, say 1/60 is better. At 105 mm use *at least* 1/105 for your shutter speed, but somewhat faster, 1/125 or more is better.


----------



## crotonmark (Nov 24, 2012)

but if my largest aperture is F3.5 then why did the camera choose such a slow shutter speed (ok I guess there wasn't enough light??) Should I have just upped the ISO to 400?
I am not being dense - just very unsure of myself and disappointed.


----------



## Heitz (Nov 24, 2012)

Don't be disappointed.  You'll get this right.  Were you in aperture priority mode?  If so, and you're ISO is NOT auto, the camera is going to do what it has to to get the exposure level correct. in this case, all it could do was decrease the shutter speed.  You could mitigate that by upping the ISO, or perhaps by allowing some degree of auto ISO, but different cameras will deal with that setting slightly differently.  As a rule, try to keep your shutter speed at or faster than 1/focal length.  Make sense?


----------



## coastalconn (Nov 24, 2012)

If you grab a book about photography it might help.  It helps to understand "stops".  So if you raise your ISO to 400 ie 1 stop, you would double your shutter speed.  Take the second picture for example, at iso 200 your shutter was 1/10th, at iso 400 it would be 1/20th at iso 800 it would be 1/40.  That is a basic explanation....


----------



## KmH (Nov 24, 2012)

Yes, increasing the ISO makes the image sensor seem more sensitive to light. More light means you don't need to leave the shutter open as long to make a good exposure.
Camera Exposure: Aperture, ISO & Shutter Speed
Understanding Camera Lenses
Tutorials &#8211; Sharpness
Understanding Camera Autofocus

A 'stop' is a doubleing or a halving.
Changing from ISO 200 to ISO 400 is one stop. ISO 400 apparently doubles the amount of light. (Actually, the image sensor electronics just use different amplifier circuits.)

A stop of shutter speed would be 1/25 to 1/50, or 1/30 to 1/60. *But* with a faster shutter speed, less light is let in because the shutter is open for 1/2 as long.

By increasing the light 1 stop by changing the ISO, and decreasing the light 1 stop by changing the shutter speed, the total amount of light that makes the exposure*stays the same*. +1-1 = 0

Lens aperture can also be changed in 'stops', but the amount of light the lens aperture lets in or blocks is determined by the *area* of the lens aperture, not by it's diameter.

consequently x2 or /2 doesn't apply, the square root of 2 applies (about 1.4142). That is why full stops of lens aperture are f/1, f/1.4, f/2, f/2.8, f/5.6.
f/1 x 1.4142 = 1.4142is rounded to *f/1.4*........ _*NOTE*_: f/1.4 lets in *1/2* *as much* light as f/1 does.
f/1.4 x 1.4142 = 1.98  is rounded to *f/2*
f/2 x 1.4142 = 2.83  is rounded to *f/2.8* ......._*NOTE*_: f/2 lets in *2x more light* than f/2.8 does.
etc.

Most of today's DSLR camera are set by default to be adjustable in 1/3 stop increments.

*Typical one-third-stop f-number scale (the green backed numbers are the classic full stop steps)*


_f_/No.0.70.80.91.01.11.21.41.61.822.22.52.83.23.544.55.05.66.37.1891011131416182022

So, f/1.8 to 2 is 1/3 of a stop. f/1.8 to f/2.2 is 2/3 of a stop. f/1.8 to f/2.5 is a full stop.


----------



## crotonmark (Nov 24, 2012)

I was in Aperture Priority mode.  Someone told me to try to understand aperture mode first so I am (badly).  My ISO is not on Auto.  Camera is the Rebel T4i (I know something you all here would never buy)  It was all I could afford and it is more than I can handle.
What I don't understand is this - should I have shut down the aperture to force the camera to increase the shutter speed??

thanks


----------



## Sirashley (Nov 24, 2012)

Dude... can I give you a great piece of advice??? Pick up the book _Understanding Exposure_ by Bryan Peterson... This book will explain the relationship between ISO, Shutter Speed, and Aperture, and it is worth every red cent. Read it from cover to cover, and I promise, you will come out a better photographer. I have read it three times, and I plan on reading it again, as a refresher... I have learned more from this single book, than probably the other 20 I have read on photography...


----------



## crotonmark (Nov 24, 2012)

Sirashley said:
			
		

> Dude... can I give you a great piece of advice??? Pick up the book Understanding Exposure by Bryan Peterson... This book will explain the relationship between ISO, Shutter Speed, and Aperture, and it is worth every red cent. Read it from cover to cover, and I promise, you will come out a better photographer. I have read it three times, and I plan on reading it again, as a refresher... I have learned more from this single book, than probably the other 20 I have read on photography...



Yes  I have this book and I am working my way thru it. The problem is I need to use the camera before I have gotten thru the book!!


----------



## KmH (Nov 24, 2012)

crotonmark said:


> should I have shut down the aperture to force the camera to increase the shutter speed??


No, that is backwards.

Making the lens aperture smaller lets in less light, so the shutter has to be slower (open longer) for enough light to fall on the image sensor to make a good exposure.
A shutter speed of 1/200 *is a decrease* (open 1/2 as long, lets in less light) from a shutter speed of 1/100.


----------



## crotonmark (Nov 24, 2012)

KmH said:
			
		

> No, that is backwards.
> 
> Making the lens aperture smaller lets in less light, so the shutter has to be slower (open longer) for enough light to fall on the image sensor to make a good exposure.



So all I could have done here was increase the ISO or use a flash?


----------



## Pallycow (Nov 24, 2012)

crotonmark said:


> I was in Aperture Priority mode.  Someone told me to try to understand aperture mode first so I am (badly).  My ISO is not on Auto.  Camera is the Rebel T4i (I know something you all here would never buy)  It was all I could afford and it is more than I can handle.
> What I don't understand is this - should I have shut down the aperture to force the camera to increase the shutter speed??
> 
> thanks



There is nothing wrong with that camera and many folks here use older models.  That is a perfectly capable entry level camera.  Read the stuff they posted here and read the manual and practice.  Master it and you will do well with it.

When I started out I went through at least 20-30K shots before the lightbulb clicked and I started getting it right.  Basic exposure triangle and mastering your cameras functions are step 1.  Then a whole new world will open to you.


----------



## crotonmark (Nov 24, 2012)

Pallycow said:
			
		

> There is nothing wrong with that camera and many folks here use older models.  That is a perfectly capable entry level camera.  Read the stuff they posted here and read the manual and practice.  Master it and you will do well with it.
> 
> When I started out I went through at least 20-30K shots before the lightbulb clicked and I started getting it right.  Basic exposure triangle and mastering your cameras functions are step 1.  Then a whole new world will open to you.



Thanks. It's just frustrating to be in a once in a lifetime situation and blow the shots. 
S the T4i is a decent camera?  I'm not sure anymore. 
The pictures look much better on the little screen then they do when I add them to iPhoto !


----------



## Heitz (Nov 24, 2012)

Well yea, kinda.  but for example, had you increased your iso to 3200, all of the shots would probably be crisp.  So its not trivial.


----------



## crotonmark (Nov 24, 2012)

Heitz said:


> Well yea, kinda.  but for example, had you increased your iso to 3200, all of the shots would probably be crisp.  So its not trivial.



Can you really shoot at ISO 3200 and not just have noise?
Should I adjust the ISO until I get the right shutter speed?
Can the T4i really take clear crisp pictures?
And my biggest frustration is my iPhone 4S takes great pictures everytime no fuss no muss


----------



## 480sparky (Nov 24, 2012)

Heitz said:


> Don't be disappointed.  You'll get this right.  Were you in aperture priority mode?  If so, and you're ISO is NOT auto, the camera is going to do what it has to to get the exposure level correct. in this case, all it could do was decrease the shutter speed.  You could mitigate that by upping the ISO, or perhaps by allowing some degree of auto ISO, but different cameras will deal with that setting slightly differently.  As a rule, try to keep your shutter speed at or faster than 1/focal length.  Make sense?




Camera Maker: Canon
Camera Model: Canon EOS REBEL T4i
Lens: Canon EF 35-105mm f/3.5-4.5
Image Date: 2012-11-24 15:20:12 (no TZ)
Focal Length: 105mm
Aperture: f/5.6
Exposure Time: 0.077 s (1/13)
ISO equiv: 200
Exposure Bias: none
Metering Mode: Matrix
*Exposure: aperture priority (semi-auto)*
White Balance: Auto
Flash Fired: No (enforced)
Orientation: Normal
Color Space: sRGB
GPS Coordinate: undefined, undefined
Software: iPhoto 9.4.2


----------



## thetrue (Nov 24, 2012)

Your iPhone is fully automatic, you can't adjust anything one it except flash or no flash. Put your ISO to auto, try program auto mode "P"take notice to what the settings are in the viewfinder. That should help give you an idea of what settings are needed for a certain level of exposure in certain lighting.


----------



## crotonmark (Nov 24, 2012)

480sparky said:


> Heitz said:
> 
> 
> > Don't be disappointed.  You'll get this right.  Were you in aperture priority mode?  If so, and you're ISO is NOT auto, the camera is going to do what it has to to get the exposure level correct. in this case, all it could do was decrease the shutter speed.  You could mitigate that by upping the ISO, or perhaps by allowing some degree of auto ISO, but different cameras will deal with that setting slightly differently.  As a rule, try to keep your shutter speed at or faster than 1/focal length.  Make sense?
> ...



How did you get all of that information?


----------



## crotonmark (Nov 24, 2012)

thetrue said:


> Your iPhone is fully automatic, you can't adjust anything one it except flash or no flash. Put your ISO to auto, try program auto mode "P"take notice to what the settings are in the viewfinder. That should help give you an idea of what settings are needed for a certain level of exposure in certain lighting.



OK will try


----------



## 480sparky (Nov 24, 2012)

crotonmark said:


> How did you get all of that information?









  I have low friends in high places.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




The data is recorded as part of the image file by your camera.  99.99% of digicams do this.  Unless you do something to 'strip' the data out of the file, it's easily read.

It's called EXIF data.

EXIF IFD0

    Camera Make = Canon
    Camera Model = Canon EOS REBEL T4i
    Picture Orientation = normal (1)
    X-Resolution = 72/1 ===> 72
    Y-Resolution = 72/1 ===> 72
    X/Y-Resolution Unit = inch (2)
    Software / Firmware Version = iPhoto 9.4.2
    Last Modified Date/Time = 2012:11:24 15:20:12

EXIF Sub IFD

    Exposure Time (1 / Shutter Speed) = 1/13 second ===> 0.07692 second
    Lens F-Number / F-Stop = 28/5 ===> &#402;/5.6
    Exposure Program = aperture priority (3)
    ISO Speed Ratings = 200
    EXIF Version = 0230
    Original Date/Time = 2012:11:24 15:20:12
    Digitization Date/Time = 2012:11:24 15:20:12
    Components Configuration = 0x01,0x02,0x03,0x00 / YCbCr
    Shutter Speed Value (APEX) = 29/8
    Shutter Speed (Exposure Time) = 1/12.34 second
    Aperture Value (APEX) = 5/1
    Aperture = &#402;/5.66
    Exposure Bias (EV) = 0/1 ===> 0
    Max Aperture Value (APEX) = 19239/4285 ===> 4.49
    Max Aperture = &#402;/4.74
    Metering Mode = pattern / multi-segment (5)
    Flash = Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode
    Focal Length = 105/1 mm ===> 105 mm
    Last Modified Subsecond Time = 00
    Original Subsecond Time = 00
    Digitized Subsecond Time = 00
    FlashPix Version = 0100
    Colour Space = sRGB (1)
    Image Width = 3456 pixels
    Image Height = 5184 pixels
    Focal Plane X-Resolution = 202953/35 ===> 5798.66
    Focal Plane Y-Resolution = 104201/18 ===> 5788.94
    Focal Plane X/Y-Resolution Unit = inch (2)
    Custom Rendered = normal process (0)
    Exposure Mode = auto exposure (0)
    White Balance = auto (0)
    Scene Capture Type = standard (0)


----------



## crotonmark (Nov 24, 2012)

480sparky said:


> crotonmark said:
> 
> 
> > How did you get all of that information?
> ...



How do you read it out of the images I posted?


----------



## 480sparky (Nov 24, 2012)

crotonmark said:


> How do you read it out of the images I posted?



I have three EXIF readers installed on my browser.


----------



## crotonmark (Nov 24, 2012)

480sparky said:


> crotonmark said:
> 
> 
> > How do you read it out of the images I posted?
> ...



well that's cool

Do you think that the T4i can take crisp pictures?
I am not sure anymore


----------



## 480sparky (Nov 24, 2012)

crotonmark said:


> Do you think that the T4i can take crisp pictures?



Sure it can.  You just need to learn how to use it.




crotonmark said:


> I am not sure anymore



I am.  I have faith.  Just don't give up!


----------



## crotonmark (Nov 24, 2012)

480sparky said:


> crotonmark said:
> 
> 
> > Do you think that the T4i can take crisp pictures?
> ...



I won't give up - Just very frustrated.
I can't even copy Peterson's examples when I try to duplicate them....


----------



## thetrue (Nov 24, 2012)

What examples are you trying to duplicate?


----------



## crotonmark (Nov 24, 2012)

thetrue said:


> What examples are you trying to duplicate?



his depth of field mainly.


----------



## thetrue (Nov 24, 2012)

Did you crop these photos from the original, or are these right from the camera?


----------



## 480sparky (Nov 24, 2012)

thetrue said:


> Did you crop these photos from the original, or are these right from the camera?




    Last Modified Date/Time = 2012:11:24 15:20:12
    Original Date/Time         = 2012:11:24 15:20:12
    Digitization Date/Time    = 2012:11:24 15:20:12
    Software / Firmware Version = iPhoto 9.4.2


Hard to tell.


----------



## crotonmark (Nov 24, 2012)

thetrue said:


> Did you crop these photos from the original, or are these right from the camera?



these are right from the camera


----------



## 480sparky (Nov 24, 2012)

Then take some time and learn how to take shots in low light, without a pod. It's not quick and easy to learn. Practice will make you better.


----------



## thetrue (Nov 24, 2012)

Thanks sparky, for realizing my oversights. 

Which point did you use for the autofocus? If you used the center, which AF mode did you use?


----------



## Tuffythepug (Nov 24, 2012)

crotonmark said:


> KmH said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Your options were to increase the ISO, use a flash, or put the camera on a tripod so you could have shot with such slow shutter speeds and not experienced the camera shake which blurred your pictures.


----------



## TCampbell (Nov 25, 2012)

crotonmark said:


> Pallycow said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Waitaminute!!!

You posted some shots asking for advice.
You got advice.  You got good advice.... no, you got GREAT advice!

This is a "process".  It's how we learn.  Think we all grabbed a camera, took our first 30 photos and published a book with them?  Hell no!  Don't be absurd.  We all suck when we're new.  We ask questions.  We get advice.  If we're paying attention we learn from that advice.  Then we do better the next time.

The camera is great.  I don't play piano.  I can't just go out and buy a Steinway and expect to be a concert pianist in a week.  It takes a bit of practice -- no matter how good the equipment is there is no substitute for operator skill.  The camera does as it's told.

Everyone nailed why the shots weren't as crisp as you had hoped.  I may have missed it as I read through the thread, but I didn't see anyone mention the minimum shutter-speed guideline:

Your minimum shutter speed should be *1 / (focal-length) X (crop-factor)*.  

The crop-factor of your T4i is 1.6 (that's a constant... it's based on the sensor size.  It means you have to multiply the area of your sensor size by 1.6 to be equivalent to a "full frame" camera.  A "full-frame" camera is a camera whose sensor is as large as a 35mm film negative.  There are even larger sensors, but I dirges.  

Your EXIF data says you had the lens zoomed in to 105mm -- that's your focal length.  Your crop-factor is constant (1.6) and never changes no matter what you do (as long as you're using that camera ... changing lenses, zooming, changing settings, etc. does not affect your crop-factor.)  

*1 / 105 X 1.6* = *1/168th sec*.  That means your minimum shutter speed should be 1/168th of a second or faster in order to avoid a blurry shot caused by camera shake.

But this is a "guideline" and not a "rule".  If you drank a LOT of caffeine before the shoot and it makes you jittery then you might need to pad your crop factor.  Every individual person is different.  It's a "guideline" because it represents how steady the average person can be when they are actually TRYING to brace both themselves and the camera to remain still for a hand-held shot.  

A lens with image-stabilization (IS) can bring that value down.  Most IS can easily give you 2 stops.  You might get 3 stops ... and a really good lens might even get you 4 (but that's rare.)  A "stop" is a "halving" or "doubling" of the amount of light collected... depending on whether you're going up or down.  So 3 stops slower than 1/168th (btw the "full" stops of shutter speed are at 1/125 and the next stop up is 1/250, but 1/168 is pretty close to 1/160 which is a 1/3rd stop over 1/125th so lets just round and go with that) ... so half of 160 is 80 (that's 1 stop), half of 80 is 40 (that's 2 stops), and half of 40 is 20 (that's THREE stops).  So if your lens had image stabilization then it MAY have been able to get you all the way down to 1/20th of a second in a hand-held shot IF you were trying to brace yourself and the camera and be really steady.  But you were down to 1/13th... which is too far even for most image stabilization to deal with (and that assumes that you were at least as steady as the average person trying their best to be solid.)  

If the camera isn't moving AND the subject isn't moving THEN you can keep the shutter open as long as you like.  Grab a tripod (or a beanbag).  The act of pressing the shutter button will induce some motion (even with a tripod) so you can either (a) use a remote shutter release (there's both wired and wireless versions of these and they are cheap) or (b) use the countdown timer on the camera (usually 2 seconds is enough for a steady tripod... for a not-so-steady tripod use the 10 second delay timer.)

Anyway... now you know the guideline.  Get that shutter speed up OR make sure the subject and camera cannot move.  BTW, lenses with IS will improve your odds... but by no means "guarantee" a sharp shot.  If the shot _really_ matters, I don't rely on IS... I rely on a tripod.

Good luck!


----------



## amolitor (Nov 25, 2012)

One of the nice things about digital cameras is that you can take lots of photos.

In a case like this I might well have pushed the limits of shutter speed, but I would have focused on hold the camera STILL, and I would have taken a lot of identical exposures. Some of them will be sharper than others. Throw the less sharp ones away.

Also, learn to use the zoom function on the screen on the back of the camera, so you can get in closer to the capture and see if it is sharp, or not.


----------



## Edsport (Nov 25, 2012)

crotonmark said:


> KmH said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Or use a tripod. Using the timer or a remote to take the photo would allow you to take the shot without touching the camera...


----------



## pixmedic (Nov 25, 2012)

KmH said:


> Yes, increasing the ISO makes the image sensor seem more sensitive to light. More light means you don't need to leave the shutter open as long to make a good exposure.
> Camera Exposure: Aperture, ISO & Shutter Speed
> Understanding Camera Lenses
> Tutorials &#8211; Sharpness
> ...



wait...f/2.8 lets in twice as much light as f/2? I thought it was the other way around? did I miss something?


----------



## crotonmark (Nov 25, 2012)

thetrue said:


> Thanks sparky, for realizing my oversights.
> 
> Which point did you use for the autofocus? If you used the center, which AF mode did you use?



Center Focus point - AI Focus setting


----------



## crotonmark (Nov 25, 2012)

TCampbell said:


> crotonmark said:
> 
> 
> > Pallycow said:
> ...



Tim Campbell
Thank you very much for this post
I will keep shooting!
I know Rome wasn't built in a day but sometimes I wish it was.

Mark


----------



## crotonmark (Nov 25, 2012)

amolitor said:


> One of the nice things about digital cameras is that you can take lots of photos.
> 
> In a case like this I might well have pushed the limits of shutter speed, but I would have focused on hold the camera STILL, and I would have taken a lot of identical exposures. Some of them will be sharper than others. Throw the less sharp ones away.
> 
> Also, learn to use the zoom function on the screen on the back of the camera, so you can get in closer to the capture and see if it is sharp, or not.



thanks


----------



## ph0enix (Nov 25, 2012)

crotonmark said:


> Pallycow said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



In a "once in a lifetime" situation, while not knowing what the camera is capable of and not having a good handle on fundamentals of photography I would have shot in the full Auto mode.

I would start here if I were you:
http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...-forum/267492-info-those-new-photography.html


----------



## kathyt (Nov 25, 2012)

crotonmark said:


> 480sparky said:
> 
> 
> > crotonmark said:
> ...



The T4i is an AWESOME camera. I had the T2i and I loved it. Once you master the basics you will soon see the power of the Rebel.


----------



## crotonmark (Nov 25, 2012)

kathythorson said:


> crotonmark said:
> 
> 
> > 480sparky said:
> ...



Thanks Kathy - I am trying


----------



## 480sparky (Nov 25, 2012)

thetrue said:


> Thanks sparky, for realizing my oversights.
> 
> Which point did you use for the autofocus? If you used the center, which AF mode did you use?



Given the low light and knowing the possibility of such a low-contrast subject might cause this issue, I would do two things.

1. Enlarge the image in the monitor to check focus.
2. "Bracket" my focus point manually.


----------



## crotonmark (Nov 25, 2012)

480sparky said:


> thetrue said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks sparky, for realizing my oversights.
> ...



How do I bracket the focus point?


----------



## KmH (Nov 25, 2012)

pixmedic said:


> wait...f/2.8 lets in twice as much light as f/2? I thought it was the other way around? did I miss something?


Thanks for catching that. I fixed it


----------



## JLMILLS (Nov 25, 2012)

crotonmark said:


> Sirashley said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If you have one hour, youtube search for one of the B & H videos on this. They are about 1.5hrs in length and free. I own this book as well and still haven't read it. I'm more of a "remember everything I hear" kind of person. My mind wanders when I read.


----------



## Dubaiian (Nov 25, 2012)

I think that everyone has given you great advice on here and I have nothing additional to add about the technique.  


One Thing i Would point out is that you have a great entry level DSLR (I started a couple of years ago with a T2i).  In the early days I had many many failures but with a lot of reading and tons of help from people on here I progressed rapidly to taking what I now believe are relatively decent images and have even had some of my sports shots published in the local press.   I have now progressed up to much higher levels of equipment, but often go back to my older cameras for family functions and trips out and I can assure you that these cameras get better as your knowledge increases.   

Many times I was ready t confine my camera to the "old toys box" but stuck at it and and am now rarely seen without a camera within 10feet of my person.   Don't give up, it's hard at the start but gets more rewarding with every session.


----------



## crotonmark (Nov 25, 2012)

Dubaiian said:


> I think that everyone has given you great advice on here and I have nothing additional to add about the technique.
> 
> 
> One Thing i Would point out is that you have a great entry level DSLR (I started a couple of years ago with a T2i).  In the early days I had many many failures but with a lot of reading and tons of help from people on here I progressed rapidly to taking what I now believe are relatively decent images and have even had some of my sports shots published in the local press.   I have now progressed up to much higher levels of equipment, but often go back to my older cameras for family functions and trips out and I can assure you that these cameras get better as your knowledge increases.
> ...



Thanks Dubaiian. 
What would be different if I bought a camera one step up (I'm not but I'm curious). What makes my T4i an entry level DSLR?


mark


----------



## Dubaiian (Nov 25, 2012)

I think the term entry level is a marketing take (lower price point, more auto features etc) and you really should not get hung up on it as these rebels are way ahead of most non-DSLRs below them.    

As many on here will tell you, only upgrade when you find something missing from your existing equipment.    Based on advise from here primarily, I firstly upgraded some lenses as I was doing a lot of low light photography and needed wider apertures.   Next I started to shoot a lot of sports and got longer telephoto lens and only then did I realise that I needed faster shutter speeds and somewhat better focussing systems so I went to the 7D.  

Very recently I started to understand the benefits of full frame (as opposed to cropped sensor) so I upgraded to a 5d3.    Many will say that I am flippant and spend to much on kit but photography is a passion along with technical innovation (read, I like new toys).    Sometimes you get features that you did not even buy the camera for originally like the near silent shutter on the 5d.   

Photography can be a hugely expensive hobby if you allow it to be, but amazing images can also be taken with "entry level" kit.


----------



## crotonmark (Nov 25, 2012)

Dubaiian said:


> I think the term entry level is a marketing take (lower price point, more auto features etc) and you really should not get hung up on it as these rebels are way ahead of most non-DSLRs below them.
> 
> As many on here will tell you, only upgrade when you find something missing from your existing equipment.    Based on advise from here primarily, I firstly upgraded some lenses as I was doing a lot of low light photography and needed wider apertures.   Next I started to shoot a lot of sports and got longer telephoto lens and only then did I realise that I needed faster shutter speeds and somewhat better focussing systems so I went to the 7D.
> 
> ...



Thanks again Dubaiian.
Of course the camera I have is clearly too much for me today
I am encouraged that people think it is a good camera - for me now i get worse results with it than I do with my iPhone camera


----------



## rambler (Nov 25, 2012)

Rule of thumb:  To avoid blur when the camera is handheld, do not use a speed slower than 1/30.

Check your manual and look for something called ISO sensitivity.  You can set the camera to not take shots slower than a certain speed (one you choose), or at an ISO number higher than one you choose.  For example, set the aperture minimum at 1/125 and the ISO number at 1600.  You will avoid blurs caused by a handheld camera.

Getting a sharp focus is one of the difficult tasks of taking an image. With landscapes, take the same image using different focus points close, near and far, and hope one is correct!  (Or try using a DOF Calculator App on you iphone - see link below)  Taking photos of a face?  Focus on the eyes!

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/simple-dof/id412384880?mt=8


----------



## 480sparky (Nov 25, 2012)

rambler said:
			
		

> Rule of thumb:  To avoid blur when the camera is handheld, do not use a speed slower than 1/30....



Fine... If you're using a 28 or 35mm lens. You can go slower with a wider lens, but 1/30 sec would utterly fail with a 200 or 300mm.



			
				rambler  said:
			
		

> ...... For example, set the aperture minimum at 1/125.....



Where will I find an aperture setting of 1/125?


----------



## John27 (Nov 25, 2012)

I use a Rebel T1i and have taken some pretty good pictures.  I have seen some INCREDIBLE shots taken with these Rebel Cameras.

Would a professional charging $400/hr use a Rebel?  Probably not.  Is it a darn good camera capable of taking excellent shots?  You bet.  Especially with better lenses in the future.

Here's two of my favorite shots I took with my T1i and the KIT LENS, and being quite mediocre myself;




View attachment 26688

And, there are plenty of things wrong with both of these images!  I didn't post those to show you what perfect shots look like, I just took those to show you what a guy who shot images that look like what you posted, progressed to a couple months beyond that.  And it got better after that, and hopefully, it'll continue to get better.  It just takes time.  None of these incredible shots on this forum (photo of the month winners, etc.) were done with inexperienced folks.  There is a lot of talent, but also a lot of know how and experienced involved here.

Point is, I haven't nearly outgrown my T1i.  The Camera is still more capable than I am, I haven't 'maxed it out'.  Once you have, THEN you can worry about a better Camera body, but a great camera doesn't take great pictures.  Take a 1DX and start firing away with the pop up flash and poor settings, and you'll take poorer pictures than an experienced photographer would with a 5 year old Rebel.  For a beginner, there are much more important things than the Camera body. 

I also have some images that I WISH I could take credit for, taken with the exact same camera, by a relative of mine who is a professional photog.  He shoots a 5D Mk II.  He stuck one of his L lenses, a 580 EX II flash unit, and a monopod on it and shot some INCREDIBLE shots of my aunts garden.  In capable hands with good glass, the Rebel series is capable of great things.

Truth is?  And I can say this to ya because I'm in the same shoes as you.  Those images would have looked the same with a 5D Mk III or even Canons flagship 1DX.  (And your 18-55 kit lens).  They just weren't setup right.  That's okay! You'll learn over time.

Also, don't be afraid of full auto mode or the program modes if you aren't quite sure.  They do a decent job, and the rebel DSLRs are also excellent point and shoot cameras.  A lot of times at family events, where I'm just shooting memories not portfolio pieces, I just stick it on full auto.  I get great memorable shots to post on facebook for everyone to remenise over.  And, when possible, I stick it on full manual mode and spend time learning to shoot better by trying to re-create and then improve on some of those same auto shots using manual mode.  It's a great way to learn!


----------



## crotonmark (Nov 26, 2012)

John27 said:


> I use a Rebel T1i and have taken some pretty good pictures.  I have seen some INCREDIBLE shots taken with these Rebel Cameras.
> 
> Would a professional charging $400/hr use a Rebel?  Probably not.  Is it a darn good camera capable of taking excellent shots?  You bet.  Especially with better lenses in the future.
> 
> ...



thanks!


----------



## binga63 (Nov 26, 2012)

Listen, try , fail fail fail, try, fail fail, try, fail, try, succeed... try, fail, try succeed.... what I am trying to say is keep trying .. shoot pics but listen to others, read, if you cannot shoot a pic without blurring it, don't blame the tools you are using it is your fault...don't be afraid of failing....  buy a tripod...I have Parkinson's  and have learned when I need to shoot with a tripod or when I can go without.. the majority of my flower pics are handheld... but I know my limitations...... your task is to learn yours and then adjust your thinking to overcome them..but don't give up... 
_&#8220;Your first ten thousand photos are your worst.&#8221; &#8211; Henri Cartier-Bresson_
I have still got at least another 6000 to go but it is a start


----------



## rambler (Nov 26, 2012)

OOOPS...Of course, I meant to refer to 1/125 as shutter speed...here is another rule of thumb explained by others with more savy than moi.
 "A common rule of thumb for estimating how fast the exposure needs to be for a given focal length is the *one over focal length rule*. This states that for a 35 mm camera, the exposure time needs to be at least as fast as one over the focal length in seconds. In other words, when using a 200 mm focal length on a 35 mm camera, the exposure time needs to be at least 1/200 seconds &#8212; otherwise blurring may be hard to avoid. See the tutorial on reducing camera shake with hand-held photos for more on this topic."

Click on that link to goto Cambridge in Colour, an informative website you might want to join.


----------



## STIC (Dec 6, 2012)

...


----------



## crotonmark (Dec 6, 2012)

STIC said:


> As everyone else has said...you'll suck, then...you'll get a bit better, then you'll get adventurous and suck again...then you'll get better...
> 
> All i can say is, thank god you didn't start like i did...with a film SLR and an interest in drag racing...you know how disappointing it is getting your photos back a week later to find the blurry back end of a drag car at the leading edge of every single shot of an otherwise empty drag strip?
> 
> ...




Thanks STIC!


----------

