# For my novel, another question



## RachelRose53 (Apr 16, 2016)

I've posted here before and everyone has been incredibly helpful in giving me information. For those who don't already know, I am working on a novel in which one of the characters is a photographer. I have done and am doing a lot of research on my own, and I have a basic understanding of photography concepts, but sometimes there is just something too technical for me to figure out.

Here is what I am requesting. It's a question with a short answer, and no doubt very easy for you guys:

My protagonist (not a photographer) is at a gallery opening of a show (photographer's work, obviously), and she is standing in front of one of the photographs with someone who IS a photographer. The photographs are backstage shots of performers getting ready to go onstage (it's 1986, I am thinking they are going to be drag queens, but for the purpose of this query it's irrelevant who they are, only that these are backstage/dressing room photos, not formal portraits but taken in the middle of the natural action going on). The person who is the photographer says something about the photo they are standing in front of and it is of a technical nature. Something about the way it's lit, or wondering about the lens used or anything else. It could be an admiring comment. It could be a critical comment. It could be a something that she wonders whether it was done one way or another. It could be anything that someone who was a photographer might say in this situation, and it should be way over the head of someone who wasn't. 1986, so pre-digital, pre-Photoshop. Any ideas?

Any help would be much appreciated.

Robin


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## The_Traveler (Apr 16, 2016)

Very nice, 
Perfectly timed, nicely sharp.


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## RachelRose53 (Apr 16, 2016)

Thanks, but I need something more technical. Something that might include reference to equipment. It's got to be meaningless to the non-photographer.


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## Designer (Apr 16, 2016)

If the photographer is talking, 

O.K., never mind then.


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## RachelRose53 (Apr 16, 2016)

The person speaking is not the photographer (of the photo). Simply a photographer who has come to the opening. She is making an observation on a photograph she didn't personally take.


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## cherylynne1 (Apr 16, 2016)

They could say, "The wide aperture and leading lines make for good subject isolation, but it's not sharp enough for my tastes. He should have stopped down and perhaps switched out for a higher ISO film in order to use a faster shutter speed."


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## The_Traveler (Apr 16, 2016)

What is the point of the statement?
What impression are you trying to convey?


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## RachelRose53 (Apr 16, 2016)

Cherylynne, this would work nicely. Thank you.

Traveler - the remark functions to make the other person (non-photographer), feel left out. The person making the remark is her husband's studio manager, and when she begins to talk about the photographs the protagonist is reminded of how much the two of them (husband and studio manager) share a world she isn't part of.


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## Designer (Apr 16, 2016)

cherylynne1 said:


> They could say, "The wide aperture and leading lines make for good subject isolation, but it's not sharp enough for my tastes. He should have stopped down and perhaps switched out for a higher ISO film in order to use a faster shutter speed."


I will disagree, cherylynne1.  You seem to be mixing technical terminology within an artistic critique, which actually could be done, but you've made some technical errors.


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## tirediron (Apr 16, 2016)

cherylynne1 said:


> They could say, "The wide aperture and leading lines make for good subject isolation, but it's not sharp enough for my tastes. He should have stopped down and perhaps switched out for a higher ISO ASA film in order to use a faster shutter speed."


FTFY! 

Seriously though; in those days we would simply have called it "faster film" or "400" instead of "100"...  I don't ever remember saying or hearing any fellow photographers say "ASA" in normal discussion.


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## cherylynne1 (Apr 16, 2016)

Ah, thank you! I understand the concept behind film, but never actually had to do it.... 

If there were other errors, Designer, I apologize and am more than willing to be corrected. It just seemed like a comment we see often, with wide aperture and slow shutter speed being the most common culprits for softness.


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## limr (Apr 16, 2016)

I agree that the details could be used, but it's unwieldy phrasing for dialogue. It also explains too much, and if the point is to use jargon that only other photographers would understand and leave others out of the conversation, then there needs to be much more shorthand.

"The depth of field works, but that's a soft lens wide open. He should have stopped down to get that queen nice and sharp. What film was he using? Did he think about pushing it?"


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## manaheim (Apr 16, 2016)

BTW, and you may already know this, but how you choose to have the photographer/critic respond is a significant statement on the character of the photographer/critic.

A pure technical response means the person is focused very heavily on the technical aspects AND what does that say about the relationship between the photographer/critic and the person they are talking to?

Frankly, IMO, the photographers who do that are basically either a> just being obnoxious, b> trying to make the person they're with think they know COOL STUFF and should be WORSHIPPED.

As an example.

Something to consider.


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## RachelRose53 (Apr 16, 2016)

How about:


“Nicely framed,” ––––– said. “But a little soft, I think. I wonder why he didn’t stop down and shoot a bit faster.” She leaned in and examined the picture closely. “Tricky light. Maybe he could have bumped up the ASA. Although he might have been concerned about noise. As it is, it’s pretty clean.”


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## tirediron (Apr 16, 2016)

RachelRose53 said:


> How about:
> 
> 
> “Nicely framed,” ––––– said. “But a little soft, I think. I wonder why he didn’t stop down and shoot a bit faster.” She leaned in and examined the picture closely. “Tricky light. Maybe he could have bumped up the ASA. Although he might have been concerned about noise. As it is, it’s pretty clean.”


You're mixing your metaphors (in a manner of speaking).  You can't change film speed in mid-stream, and noise is a digital thing.

"Nicely framed, but it seems a bit soft on the edges; I wished he stopped down just a bit more".


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## limr (Apr 16, 2016)

RachelRose53 said:


> How about:
> 
> 
> “Nicely framed,” ––––– said. “But a little soft, I think. I wonder why he didn’t stop down and shoot a bit faster.” She leaned in and examined the picture closely. “Tricky light. Maybe he could have bumped up the ASA. Although he might have been concerned about noise. As it is, it’s pretty clean.”



"I wonder why he didn't stop down or shoot *with a faster lens.*" (you don't really 'shoot fast')

Also, you wouldn't have just "bumped ASA" with film. He could have "switched to a faster film" (some people did switch mid-roll but it was time consuming) or "changed backs with the faster film." (assuming he had a camera with a changeable back, so this would only work if he were shooting with a camera that did. At that time, I think it was only medium-formats, maybe some of the Nikon 35mm bodies.)

And film has grain, not noise.


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## RachelRose53 (Apr 16, 2016)

“Nicely framed,” ________ said. “But a bit soft around the edges, I think. I wonder why he didn’t stop down a little more.” She leaned in and examined the picture closely. “Tricky light. Maybe a faster film.”


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## limr (Apr 16, 2016)

There you go.


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## RachelRose53 (Apr 16, 2016)

Yes, this is what I was after. Something my protagonist will not understand, and feel she is being purposely made to seem stupid because of it. Thank you, all!


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## vintagesnaps (Apr 18, 2016)

I'm not sure that this seems all that plausible. If the woman is the studio manager for her husband, wouldn't she be handling scheduling, and hiring, and paperwork, etc.? or is she a photographer too? But then, would she be just managing her husband's work?? so why is she critiquing a photo? Something's not quiet ringing true for me.

The gallery openings I've been to have been at a local art center or artist coop etc. not a large pricey gallery... but it mostly involves walking around with a plastic cup of wine and cubes of cheese and things on little sticks. Much of the conversation can be about other things, depending on the number of little cups of wine imbibed, and how well everybody knows everybody else, etc. lol 

Seriously usually the comments are more about how interesting the work is, related more to the subject or composition, or maybe technique used if it's something different or unusual, etc. But not really critiquing the work because if it's good enough to be hanging on the wall, then it wouldn't warrant that much critique; what you described to me would not have even been hanging, wouldn't have even been accepted. (Unless the woman is a pretentious beeotch and trying to show off when she doesn't even know what she's talking about! lol)

And this thread reminded me that in your last post, I don't know if I ever commented, but something you mentioned seemed to be from a current day frame of reference. I think it was related to a look book, and I didn't think that term would have been in use then. (Or maybe it was, I don't know for sure, it just sounded more contemporary to me.)

Maybe look up well known photographers from that era and see if you can find descriptions or commentary (reviews or articles in art magazines etc.) to give you a frame of reference from that time, how people would have discussed it then.


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## RachelRose53 (Apr 18, 2016)

No, it's plausible. My protagonist is an editor, her husband is a photographer. His studio manager is a woman who also is a photographer  (amateur) and she started out as his studio assistant. They are all at a gallery opening in a small NYC gallery. The studio manager and my protagonist are looking at the photos together. The studio manager says what she says, and my protagonist does then wonder why this woman always has to say something that she knows the protagonist won't understand. That's part of the dynamic between the two of them, and that dynamic figures into the story further forward.

I know I have a lot more research to do regarding terminology for the period, such as "look book". I wish I knew someone who was in commercial and fashion photography in NYC in the 1980s who would consult with me (I would pay that person, gladly) but I have not found anyone yet. 

Sometimes you just have to do the best you can with what you know when you write a first draft, knowing it can be fixed in the next draft. Or the next. Or the next...


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## KenC (Apr 18, 2016)

The first thing that occurred to me for this kind of photography, where the lighting is not always what you want, is the use of fill flash.  I've found that non-photographers almost universally don't know what this is by name and need a long explanation to understand (if they ever do).  Something like: "nice use of fill flash to decrease the contrast and reveal more detail."


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## robbins.photo (Apr 18, 2016)

vintagesnaps said:


> I'm not sure that this seems all that plausible. If the woman is the studio manager for her husband, wouldn't she be handling scheduling, and hiring, and paperwork, etc.? or is she a photographer too? But then, would she be just managing her husband's work?? so why is she critiquing a photo? Something's not quiet ringing true for me.



Have to go with VS on this one, seems like your working a little too hard to throw in a technical reference where it really doesn't fit.  Since your protagonist is not a photographer, why not take this a slightly different direction.

Protagonist to photographer, "Wow, that's a great shot.  Say, don't you own that exact same dress?  He actually looks better in it than you do.."


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## RachelRose53 (Apr 18, 2016)

No, it has to be a casual comment that is over the head of the protagonist. If what I have is not actually wrong in any way, I'll stick with it for now and I can always rethink it later. Within the narrative, it doesn't really stick out as trying too hard. It sounds calculated, meant to intimidate a bit, and it is meant to.


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