# D810... am I worthy?



## JimMcClain (Oct 26, 2014)

Thanks to @TheLost, I went from waiting for a D750 and battery in the B&H shopping cart to re-open late Saturday to adding the refurbished D810 to the Nikon USA store shopping cart. With the 10% discount and tax figured in, I am getting it for just a bit over $2,800.00. It's 500 more than I had originally planned, but also 500 less than a new D810. Just too good a deal to pass up.

But now the feeling of worthiness washes over me. I re-entered amateur photography, after a nearly 30-year absence earlier this year. Back in the 80s, I had a short climb into high end Canon equipment. I was doing a lot of abstracts, street shooting, models and some weddings. But I was also a full-blown alcoholic and drug addict and gave most of my gear up, in 1984, to get more dope. I got sober the following year, but never regained the quality of equipment or the passion until earlier this year.

The D810 is a pro camera, but I know that I will likely not make it into those ranks. Foolish living and poor choices have left me with late stage emphysema. But I make the best I can of it and I get out and make pictures as often as I can. I believe I have an eye, a creative spirit and the desire to keep learning this art.

I was convinced I was worthy of the D750. My pictures seem to be popular where I live and I have been encouraged by local artists. My development skills are improving and I felt moving up to full-frame was the best next step. The D750 is quite a good camera, but to be truthful, its selling point for me was the tilting LCD on the back. Lung disease makes moving around, contorting my body into the positions I find make the most compelling pictures very difficult. Landscape photography, which is what I enjoy the most, is quite taxing physically. The D750 would limit those periods of shortness of breath - not quite as much as the D5300 I have been using, but enough to continue to make photography an important part of my life's enjoyment. But then I recently became aware of a product called CamRanger. It effectively removes all the physical limitations that drove me to only those cameras that had articulating/tilting screens.

My recent plans have always included getting into full-frame, so that I could also get the sharper and much better quality lenses that I felt would improve the quality of my images. In fact, I recently completed building a high end PC, with an i7 processor, 32GB RAM and all SSD drives totaling 768GB to give me the power and storage needed for 14bit RAW and Adobe products processing.

I am not against anyone who can afford a D810 from getting one, if they want, even if their style is more casual and point & shoot. But my personal desire is to take full advantage of the tools I have. I have had this philosophy in home remodeling, in my former work as a floorcovering specialist and in other hobbies that have come and gone. So, I don't want to think of myself as only getting the D810 because I can afford it (barely), but because I deserve it... that my work shows the promise of someone who should be using high quality gear.

But I still ask myself the question, am I worthy? Since the camera is already (effectively) on its way, I'll spend the time waiting for its arrival convincing myself that I am - or will be soon enough. Maybe I could call it one of my bucket list items.  Or I will just keep looking at some of my better (to me) pictures and telling myself they are an indication that my skill and art will improve because of the quality of a D810 and the far better glass that will soon follow.












That plant picture (or another one I submitted) will be published in the March issue High Times Magazine, on newstands in January. I just got the email confirming it today from the editor. Nope, I still don't use (it'll be 30 years in April), but I do get high making pictures. 

Jim


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## D-B-J (Oct 26, 2014)

Lovely black and white. And... Worthiness is relative. What if you "aren't" but will be in a few months? It's something I don't often think about with gear. If you can afford it, buy it. Use it. Enjoy it. 

All I can say is enjoy the hell out of the camera, and to me, if you do that, then you ARE worthy.


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## dannylightning (Oct 26, 2014)

If you want it, have the money for it and you know you will get allot of use out of it why not get it.

people buy all these expensive super cars and drive them around the city streets,   that car may be capable of doing 250 miles per hour but will probably never go over 80mph yet people still buy them,  they cant take full advantage out of that kind of thing.    now a camera you can use it how ever you want and you wont need to hold back on the way you use it and what its capable of.  you will probably get some awesome photos with the thing and you can always become a better photographer as time goes on,   looks like you already do pretty well to me so I don't see it being a waist.     if you go look around at some other photos that people post on other websites who take terrible photos and think are really good but there nothing more than really bad snap shots,   now someone like that owning that kind of camera would be a waist.


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## snerd (Oct 26, 2014)

You know what the snerdman says.............. you only live once!!!

  

..................


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## ruifo (Oct 26, 2014)

Great choice. The D810 is amazing.


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## goodguy (Oct 26, 2014)

Here is what I think.

I think the D810 is one of the best cameras money can buy!
As few others said if you can afford it and feel this camera is calling your name then by all means go for it.

Only a week and a half ago I had the Nikon D7100 which is an AWESOME camera and I loved it dearly but the urge to go FX was stronger then me and I got only few days ago the D750.
Did I need it ?
Can I really fullfill all its potential ?
Was the D7100 limiting me in any ways ?

The answer to all these 3 questions is not, I got the camera because I wanted to and I am happy I made the move.
Enjoy your new camera and don't worry about the buyers remorse, it will disappear soon after you will have the D810 in your hand.


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## photoguy99 (Oct 26, 2014)

It's not a pro camera! It's a very good camera, it is a rather expensive camera, but it is totally a prosumer camera.

It's aimed at you. It's designed for you. It's intended for you.

If you've got the money, go for it.

If you're worried it's too much camera, check out what you can sell it for, before you buy, and think that over.


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## DevC (Oct 26, 2014)

snerd said:


> You know what the snerdman says.............. you only live once!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ..................


#yolo


Go for it if you want OP. The camera is not a judge of experience. It doesn't matter if you buy an expensive or a cheap one. Don't doubt yourself and consider yourself not worthy for things you want.


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## KmH (Oct 26, 2014)

Jeez! I hope High Times fixed the white balance before publishing that photo!
If you can afford it, get the D810. I hope you have the scratch ($,$$$) to get lenses that will do it justice.
If you don't, you'll be wasting some amount of the D810 image sensor resolution.


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## snerd (Oct 26, 2014)

DevC said:


> #yolo


#QFT


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## JimMcClain (Oct 26, 2014)

KmH said:


> Jeez! I hope High Times fixed the white balance before publishing that photo!


JEEZ! Inappropriate for this particular topic!


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## sashbar (Oct 27, 2014)

JimMcClain said:


> KmH said:
> 
> 
> > Jeez! I hope High Times fixed the white balance before publishing that photo!
> ...



KmH is right mentioning that having the D810 does not make much sense if you can not afford top glass. An extra high resolution modern camera and an average glass do not always go well together. What worries me is that, tilting mirror or not, it is a heavy camera and with your condition it might not be the best option in that sense. A lot of people switch from FF for mirrorless exactly for that reason.  

Also, if you post pictures on this forum, please be prepared for a negative comment or critique. I think KmH did you a favour by pointing at your obvious mistake. I could also add some things about why as an editor I would pass on this photo. I will not do it because you say it is inappropriate. So I am at a loss why then did you post the images. If it is an example of your skill and vision, then, to be honest with you, I do not see anything extraordinary or advanced. 

Having said that, I like very much the fact that you are asking these questions.  A lot of people do not even bother, thinking that a better camera will improve their photography automatically. 

So, to answer the question, that you are asking: "If I am worthy ?" , (it is a serious question, so let us put all that blah blah blah aside)- to answer it  is actually quite easy, and the first indicator is - can you think in exact terms? Not just "oh, it will have better dynamic range, it will give me higher resolution, I can hammer nails with it etc." 

Do you remember scenes that you would shoot differently with this camera, using functions and capabilities that your old camera is lacking?  The scenes when you thought " Sh't, if only I had something like D810 right now"? 

Let's take some difficult scene (that's where good cameras help after all), say some high range edge-lit scene where you were struggling to decide (and you need to decide fast) what the key tone was, what to expose for, how to deal with clipping and how to render a filled shadow? That's what often happens when we shoot people into the light, especially in the street.  How exactly will D810 help you here? What exact functions, capabilities, controls of this camera will allow you to take a better picture? 
If you know the answers then you are worthy of D810 without a shadow of the doubt. You have passed with flying colours. 

If not, then D810 is just a camera that can POTENTIALLY help you improve your photography as long as you keep asking these question and looking for answers. As long as you keep doing it, this excellent camera will be a great tool for you. I think that honestly asking that question was a great thing. But much more important now is to keep looking for those answers. 

Then again, some may say, WTF, I can afford it so I am worth it.  I have nothing against that, people can buy whatever camera they fancy regardless of their skill, I can see nothing wrong with it. But something tells me that your approach aka "If I am worthy?" potentially is just that little bit more productive


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## photoguy99 (Oct 27, 2014)

Frankly, the expensive glass thing is a canard. Largely invented by Nikon.

The pixel pitch on the D800 isn't actually that high. It's about the same as the several generations ago crop sensors.

Overall sharpness is a product of the whole system, and better glass will produce sharper rnesults on any body, D810 included. But also, the higher resolution sensor will produce more sharpness paired with the cheap glass then the lower res sensor.

So, yes, to get the best performance, buy expensive glass. On this... And any other... Body.


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## sashbar (Oct 27, 2014)

photoguy99 said:


> Frankly, the expensive glass thing is a canard. Largely invented by Nikon.
> 
> The pixel pitch on the D800 isn't actually that high. It's about the same as the several generations ago crop sensors.
> 
> ...



We are not talking just about sharpness. Do not forget about the quality of pixels.


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## ruifo (Oct 27, 2014)

Photoguy99 is right. As an example and illustration of his point, this old, plastic and cheapo lens, from the film era, the *Nikkor AF 28-80mm f/3.3-5.6G* produces amazing results with my D810, and it costs today $50 USD or less. You'd be surprised to see how the 36 MPix makes several not expensive lenses to become better and enhanced. Same thing with the even higher pixel density sensor, the 24 MPix DX sensor from my D5200.

For me, the FX 36 MPx sensor is a sweet resolution spot with most lenses out there, expensive or not. And as said, better lenses will produce better results in any body out there, any... Just like the FX 36 MPx sensors and the DX 24 MPx sensors will enhance any lenses out there too. The better the combination, the better the results.


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## runnah (Oct 27, 2014)

If you can afford it without mortgaging your house than whats the harm?


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## CmazzJK (Oct 27, 2014)

runnah said:


> If you can afford it without mortgaging your house than whats the harm?



I agree,  you only get one go around and if you think it will make you happy then do it....  If it ends up not making you happy sell it....  You can ask all the questions in the world and get all the peer reviews in the world but the only way you'll know for sure is through first hand experience.


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## Mike_E (Oct 27, 2014)

Congrats on the camera.

You may want to Think more about which lenses you get though.  As has been stated the D8xx's do well with 'good', and superb with excellent glass -but the biggest trade-off is in being able to carry your gear.

A 28-70mm f2.8 is freaking heavy and let's not even bring up the 70-200mm Vll.

A wide-angle, a midrange, an 85mm/105mm and a 180mm though being 4 separate lenses are actually manageable to carry without a pack mule.  A bonus is that all four can be had for the price of one new f2.8 zoom.

Good shooting.


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## D-B-J (Oct 27, 2014)

I've found the D800 has greatly improved what I'm capable of. For example, I can shoot at ISO 50 (huge on landscapes). I no longer need HDR all the time (because the DR is amazing). The list goes on. Just enjoy it!


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## D-B-J (Oct 27, 2014)

Mike_E said:


> Congrats on the camera.
> 
> You may want to Think more about which lenses you get though.  As has been stated the D8xx's do well with 'good', and superb with excellent glass -but the biggest trade-off is in being able to carry your gear.
> 
> ...




Yes, the D800+Grip+70-200 2.8 is around 8lbs. I shot with it *almost* exclusively for a 7 hour event, and the next day my shoulder and fingers were sore from carrying/shooting with it. So something is said for lighter gear. That's why, when I can, I shoot with primes. [emoji106]


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## JimMcClain (Oct 27, 2014)

sashbar said:


> ...if you post pictures on this forum, please be prepared for a negative comment or critique.


I don't mind photo critique - in the appropriate forum. TPF has a number of them. This ain't one of them, unless someone mistakes it for one and asks for C&C. This is a forum to discuss Nikon gear. That's what my topic is about and I didn't ask for C&C about the pictures I used solely to illustrate my OP. I may not have thousands of posts here, but I am a long-time forum owner and hands-on managing webmaster, so I feel I have the experience to qualify my comment that C&C in this particular topic is inappropriate.

Lenses... now that's appropriate. I didn't mention it before, but these are my thoughts on that: As I stated, my current rig is a D5300. I have 2 lenses, a 16-85mm 3.5-5.6G ED VR, which is a pretty decent DX format lens. The other is a 70-300mm 4.5-5.6G IF-ED VR. Again, not a bad lens and this one is an FX lens. So, for a little while, I will need to keep both lenses and the D5300, which I will mount the 16-85 on pretty much full-time. I'll be using the D810 with only the 70-300, until I can find a replacement for the 16-85.

When I have the dough, my next lens purchase will be the Tamron SP 24-70mm 2.8 Di VC USD. That is a firm commitment. I haven't fully committed to a specific wide angle zoom yet, but am considering the Nikkor 14-24 2.8. The really expensive filtering options for that lens are a serious drawback though. When I make a decision, I can then sell my D5300 and the 16-85 lens. My final goal will be to get, probably, the Tamron SP 70-200mm 2.8 Di VC USD.

I realize that quality lenses are a vital component to any FF setup. It also adds considerable weight, which can challenge someone with compromised breathing, like myself. But I shoot mostly from a tripod (Manfrotto 294 CF & Manfrotto 3-way Pan/Tilt). All my locations are easily gotten to by either my minivan or my Segway, which has a handlebar bag that carries most of my gear. At this point, I can only hope to be prepared for the extra poundage I will want and need with the D810. No doubt there will be plenty of hand-holding of the camera and lens and my limitations may become even more apparent. Emphysema is a progressive disease with no cure, so my condition will degrade. Heck, I'm already 4+ years past my expiration date, so whatever I can eke out of my life is a bonus, in my mind.

Thanks for all the feedback, everyone.

Jim


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## annamaria (Oct 27, 2014)

Really nice b/w photo.


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## Derrel (Oct 27, 2014)

Well, the D810 is the "new standard" by which all other d-slrs are measured in terms of resolution, color depth, and dynamic range. It's...a new-era, 2014-era, high-resolution Nikon. Anybody with the scratch to buy one can buy one. There's no such thing as being worthy of one camera or another. "It's out there." The Nikon D810 is the Speed Graphic of its era. It is the Rolleiflex 2.8 of its era. It is the Hassy 500 C of its era. It is the Leica M3 of its era. It is the Nikon F of its era. Many people have bought the best of their era, no matter their skill level. Nothing wrong with that!

You don't really "need-need" super high-end glass with the camera: there are plenty of decent lenses, and with 36 million pixels, you'll end up reducing most of the shots way down in size, and applying unsharp masking and tone manipulations and contrast adjustments, so the overall image quality really is a combination of high MP count and a LARGE output size,  lens performance, file size-reduction, and software image enhancement and sharpening.

We've gotten to the point where a BIG output image, with 36 million pixels on FF, gives the kind of image quality medium format used to provide, even with a fairly low-performance lens, like the modest-quality lenses that cheap TLR's used to have. The images from modern sensors from Sony are so low in noise, so "clean", that we can sharpen the crap out of the files to compensate for lens weakness. Resolution is a mixture of MP count, sensor size, and lens performance, and software processing of the images.


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## greybeard (Oct 27, 2014)

If you can afford it you are worthy.


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## JimMcClain (Oct 27, 2014)

photoguy99 said:


> It's not a pro camera! It's a very good camera, it is a rather expensive camera, but it is totally a prosumer camera.


I'm curious why you say that. I disagree only because Nikon disagrees. They claim to have Entry-Level DSLRs, Enthusiast Level DSLRs and Professional DSLRs. When you go to the Professional D-SLR Cameras page, you will find the D810 front & center. Now, I'm sure that not every camera on that page will suit every pro. Some may work better with one camera over another. But when I researched pro-level Nikons for landscape photography, which is what I am primarily interested in, guess what pros recommend the most?

Maybe you were confusing the D810 with the more recent D750. That one appears to be the best enthusiast DSLR from Nikon. I was _this_ close to ordering that. I was lucky that B&H closes for the Jewish sabbath and during my waiting period, I happened upon a thread here about refurbished cameras.

The D810 is a professional camera. Owning it doesn't make me a pro. But I certainly do appreciate pro quality tools and I will endeavor to make pictures that will do that tool justice.

Jim


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## D-B-J (Oct 28, 2014)

JimMcClain said:


> photoguy99 said:
> 
> 
> > It's not a pro camera! It's a very good camera, it is a rather expensive camera, but it is totally a prosumer camera.
> ...




I'll agree. While it's truly an argument over semantics, the D8x0 series is a professional series of bodies.


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## runnah (Oct 28, 2014)

lol @ pro bodies.


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## D-B-J (Oct 28, 2014)

runnah said:


> lol @ pro bodies.



Isn't it foolish?


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## runnah (Oct 28, 2014)

D-B-J said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> > lol @ pro bodies.
> ...



Beyond foolish. Just another imaginary line for the photo snobs to use to put themselves up on a pedastal.


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## hamlet (Oct 28, 2014)

For me personally at this moment in life the d7100 does everything i need it to. A couple of months ago that was the d3200. If you've outgrown your current camera, then i would say that you should upgrade.


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## bribrius (Oct 28, 2014)

is the camera that makes it pro or the person behind it?


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## bribrius (Oct 28, 2014)

hamlet said:


> For me personally at this moment in life the d7100 does everything i need it to. A couple of months ago that was the d3200. If you've outgrown your current camera, then i would say that you should upgrade.


I should probably still have a point and shoot only then because I forget some real basic things when shooting. Like shutter speed and forgetting to bracket, basic things that don't occur to me until after....


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## photoguy99 (Oct 28, 2014)

I described it as a prosumer camera because I think it is. It is a superb instrument, make no mistake.

It has a pop up flash, and a multi digit model number.


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## runnah (Oct 28, 2014)

photoguy99 said:


> I described it as a prosumer camera because I think it is. It is a superb instrument, make no mistake.
> 
> It has a pop up flash, and a multi digit model number.



Lol that is almost as silly as calling saying it's only pro if it has a round eyecup.


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## photoguy99 (Oct 28, 2014)

Lol.

I am perfectly willing to admit that the 'pro' designation is largely meaningless in terms of actual usage. People get paid to use every camera Nikon builds and most D3/4 owners probably never get paid.

Still, it's a thing.


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## JustJazzie (Oct 28, 2014)

I've been following this thread for a bit and I finally decided to throw in my 2c for whatever it's worth.

I am absolutely not "worthy" of the camera I chose. It was expensive, and has more features than I will probably ever use, and I'm stuck with one lens until I can afford more. (Darn life throwing unexpected bills our way all the time! :giggle

That said, I've been taking pictures for over 10 years, more like 15 if you count the days I would hang up ugly curtains with my cousin as a backdrop and shoot on disposable film camera.
I upgraded my first dslr (probably $1000+ worth of equipment) to a mirrorless ($2,000) because the dslr had (unknown to me then) back focusing issues. I thought mirrorless was gold, until I learned that it's AF system couldn't hold up to my kids in motion. So, I was sick of wasting money upgrading when I WAS "worthy" of something better. My hobby is obviously not going anywhere so the way I see it, is that now, a) I have no reason to ever blame my camera for a technical issue and b) eventually I will be worthy of it, and I won't have to wast more money upgrading. Had I spent that $3,000 when I was new to the hobby on high quality gear then I wouldn't be starting over AGAIN 10 years into this mess.

You may not be worthy now, but keep it up and you will be, and it might even save you money in the long term.


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## DevC (Oct 28, 2014)

JimMcClain said:


> photoguy99 said:
> 
> 
> > It's not a pro camera! It's a very good camera, it is a rather expensive camera, but it is totally a prosumer camera.
> ...




This is a good *marketing technique* for nikon to make many of those who are not professionals (which just by definition is people who get paid to shoot). THe d750 can quite aswell be a professional camera if need be. Heck, in the short time , many professional wedding photographers, event, and *even landscape/travel * photographers baught the d750 and stated they were quite happy with it.

The camera doesn't make you a pro, neither does the lens. By definition, the fact that you are getting paid makes you a professional.


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## runnah (Oct 28, 2014)

photoguy99 said:


> Still, it's a thing.



Is it? I was looking at Nat Geo's latest photo contest and the photos that still had their exif data intact were all taken with mid to upper range cameras. Didn't see one "pro" model.


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## kdthomas (Oct 28, 2014)

On your death bed ... with your loved ones gathered round you, holding your hands, will you whisper to them ... "Why oh why did I spend an extra $500 on that camera?"

Dude, grab the camera and don't look back ...  make the best photos you can, capture the beauty you can find in this world. Every day is a gift. 

Best wishes my friend


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## greybeard (Oct 28, 2014)

It has been my experience that professionals will use anything that will do the job and many times it is held together with duck tape.  The newspaper photographer that comes to our HS games uses a D610, that is what the paper buys for them.  A wedding photographer friend of mine who has been in the business for 40 years and toted around an RB67 for years was using a D7000 but has since upgraded to a D750.


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## JimMcClain (Oct 28, 2014)

kdthomas said:


> On your death bed ... with your loved ones gathered round you, holding your hands, will you whisper to them ... "Why oh why did I spend an extra $500 on that camera?"


Hahaha... not exactly my style. I'll still be questioning if I should have got the grip with it, or saved a little more and got the Zeiss lens.


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## photoguy99 (Oct 28, 2014)

Yeah. It's a thing. The single digit model numbers are a particular group of products with a particular set of properties. Properties aimed at professionals. It's a thing.

The pop up flash doesn't matter much in and of itself but it's a tell.

This is a stupid discussion.


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## runnah (Oct 28, 2014)

photoguy99 said:


> Yeah. It's a thing. The single digit model numbers are a particular group of products with a particular set of properties. Properties aimed at professionals. It's a thing.
> 
> The pop up flash doesn't matter much in and of itself but it's a tell.
> 
> This is a stupid discussion.




Agreed. now just say I am right and we can move on.


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## Mike_E (Oct 28, 2014)

bribrius said:


> is the camera that makes it pro or the person behind it?



Nah, it's the paying customer.


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## RichieT (Oct 28, 2014)

If you can afford it, go for it and not worry about "worthy" whatever that might mean. I upgraded from a D300 to a D800 for no other reason than I felt it was a time for a change, even though my pictures may not be "worthy" of the "standards" set by some of the forums. I'm glad I made the change since I see a big improvement in image quality.I do think good glass is important to get the full benefit of the camera. My Sigma 70-200 non OS looked really good on the D300 but was somewhat average on the D800. I also got a Nikon 28-300 to use as a walking around lens but to me it only looks average. I pretty much stick to the 24-70 and Nikon 70-200 when I can.


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## snerd (Oct 28, 2014)

Donde estas?

Esta Suzanne en casa?!

Problemos de Paco..........

I think. Don't remember much of Spanish class in 1971.


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## Solarflare (Oct 29, 2014)

I'm an amateur.

I am well aware there are pro photographers that have far inferior cameras and do much better photographs with them. For starters, I still havent gotten Lightroom, I just use the original Nikon software, which has its limits. Then again, my camera is so good, 90% of the time I could just use the out of camera JPEG, especially if I would bother more about setting the correct white balance beforehand. And of course Lightroom wont help with stuff like composition.

But photographing with a good camera is a lot more fun. I get better results than with a worse camera, automatically, and I'm more inclined to have the camera with me, and more inclinded to actually use it. Also, I can afford it.

So - worthy ? Maybe not. But life is short, and a hobby is for enjoying it.


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## JimMcClain (Oct 29, 2014)

Solarflare said:


> ...Lightroom wont help with stuff like composition.


It will, actually. I try hard to compose in-camera, but LR has helped me many times to get a better result with the cropping tool. I agree with everything else you posted. Thanks.


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## sashbar (Oct 29, 2014)

bribrius said:


> is the camera that makes it pro or the person behind it?



Neither.  Tax inspector makes you a pro, nothing else.


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## bribrius (Oct 29, 2014)

Solarflare said:


> I'm an amateur.
> 
> I am well aware there are pro photographers that have far inferior cameras and do much better photographs with them. For starters, I still havent gotten Lightroom, I just use the original Nikon software, which has its limits. Then again, my camera is so good, 90% of the time I could just use the out of camera JPEG, especially if I would bother more about setting the correct white balance beforehand. And of course Lightroom wont help with stuff like composition.
> 
> ...


pretty much where I am.


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## bribrius (Oct 29, 2014)

sashbar said:


> bribrius said:
> 
> 
> > is the camera that makes it pro or the person behind it?
> ...


I have made very little money in photography if I had a business I would be at a loss and they would owe me money in the write offs.


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## Overread (Oct 29, 2014)

My view is so long as your interests and purchases will not leave those dependant upon your income at a significant loss/strain and that they are also allowed (within financial constraints) to follow their interests then - by heck go for whatever you can afford. 

Ain't no one who can say you are not "worthy" to own a certain kind of camera or lens or any such stuff. Heck I went out and bought a 70-200mm f2.8 IS lens about 6 months after picking up a DSLR. I never worried about being "worthy" to own the lens. What I knew was it was a darn good lens - would work well for what I wanted it to do - and I could afford it without leaving anyone else important in my life at a loss. So I went for it and didn't look back. 

Also remember you might not consider yourself "good" enough to use higher end gear, but it is FAR better to have equipment superior to your skills than the other way around. That way you've less limitations upon you - and also as you continue to do your hobby your skills will improve - you can grow into higher end gear rather than quickly reach the limit of lower end gear and be left straining. 






So go for it - enjoy the new camera and I bet you the whole "buyer remorse" will vanish when you get that camera in your hands and get out to shoot


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## Vince.1551 (Oct 29, 2014)

OP you are definitely worth much more then a piece of electronics. End of the day it's just a camera. Albeit a fine one.   ;-) 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Vince.1551 (Oct 29, 2014)

photoguy99 said:


> I described it as a prosumer camera because I think it is. It is a superb instrument, make no mistake.
> 
> It has a pop up flash, and a multi digit model number.



Hmm so the 5D Mk III is a pro camera? Bet you are a canon user :evilgrin:


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## greybeard (Oct 29, 2014)

Just what separates a Pro camera from a Non-Pro camera?


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## MikeFlorendo (Oct 29, 2014)

greybeard said:


> Just what separates a Pro camera from a Non-Pro camera?


The person behind it.


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## bribrius (Oct 29, 2014)

MikeFlorendo said:


> greybeard said:
> 
> 
> > Just what separates a Pro camera from a Non-Pro camera?
> ...


copy cat. lol


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## Vince.1551 (Oct 29, 2014)

Lol


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## MikeFlorendo (Oct 29, 2014)

bribrius said:


> MikeFlorendo said:
> 
> 
> > greybeard said:
> ...


 Huh oh my ADH kicked in after page 2 and I skipped to the last comment.


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## DandL (Oct 30, 2014)

greybeard said:


> Just what separates a Pro camera from a Non-Pro camera?



From what's been posted in this thread, it comes down to a pop-up flash and the number of digits in the model number...
And all this time I thought it was the *person* who paid for the images the camera and photographer produced...


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## KmH (Oct 30, 2014)

greybeard said:


> Just what separates a Pro camera from a Non-Pro camera?


A built-in vertical grip.


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## photoguy99 (Oct 30, 2014)

KmH said:


> greybeard said:
> 
> 
> > Just what separates a Pro camera from a Non-Pro camera?
> ...



And in Nikon's current lineup, which ones are those?


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## Vince.1551 (Oct 30, 2014)

Not all pros like using a camera with a built-in grip 


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## photoguy99 (Oct 30, 2014)

We have long ago established that a 'pro camera' is not 'a camera used by a professional'. Which is definitely counter intuitive, but the convention had been around in this and other industries for a long time.

It's a class of product.


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## greybeard (Oct 30, 2014)

photoguy99 said:


> We have long ago established that a 'pro camera' is not 'a camera used by a professional'. Which is definitely counter intuitive, but the convention had been around in this and other industries for a long time.
> 
> It's a class of product.


OK, what attributes does a camera need  to be in the "Pro Class"


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## DevC (Oct 30, 2014)

photoguy99 said:


> KmH said:
> 
> 
> > greybeard said:
> ...


I believe @KmH  was being sarcastic


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## photoguy99 (Oct 30, 2014)

Generally including but not limited to:

Extremely robust build quality and weather sealing
Vertical grip
Long shutter life
Long battery life
Two card slots
High end but not bleeding edge systems such as sensor, AF module, etc
100%, bright, prism finder
Lots of programmable buttons and wheels

Lack of popup flash, scene modes, and other features intended to broaden appeal.

And now we can start the litany of point-missing replies of the form 'camera X has feature Y therefore you are dumb'

The discussion is dumb. It's like you guys don't recognize that the D3/4 exist, or Canon's similar products. These things exist. They make up a product category. This product category is commonly referred to as 'pro cameras' in contrast to the 'prosumer camera' of which the D810 is a very very nice high end example.


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## Didereaux (Oct 30, 2014)

Glass first, body second!
As for personal 'worthiness' of a material thing?  That is for people who spend a lot of time looking at their belly-buttons.


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## Overread (Oct 30, 2014)

Look we went over this before. 

It's NOT the camera
It's NOT the lens
It's NOT the light
It's NOT the photographer
It's NOT the subject
It's NOT the viewer
It's NOT the transcendental qualities of light and shadows and contrast

It IS the beard and hat! 

That's all - BEARD and HAT. Nothing else matters.


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## DevC (Oct 30, 2014)

Overread said:


> Look we went over this before.
> 
> It's NOT the camera
> It's NOT the lens
> ...


It's actually the photographers mother.


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## Vince.1551 (Oct 30, 2014)

photoguy99 said:


> We have long ago established that a 'pro camera' is not 'a camera used by a professional'. Which is definitely counter intuitive, but the convention had been around in this and other industries for a long time.
> 
> It's a class of product.



Nikon now classify the D810 as a pro camera. This is the new evolutionary convention. The 'pro' line was created to cater to professional needs. That was the original conception. Regardless of whether it's being used by a full fledge pro or noob. Nikon acknowledged the change in expectations by professionals. Adhering to old conventions amidst evolved expectations is not dissimilar to archiving a belief system in a mental museum locked away from practical reality. Times have changed...


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## photoguy99 (Oct 30, 2014)

I don't care what Nikon's marketing department says. Dodge calls their pickup trucks 'heavy duty' but this does not make them HDTs.

It is incredible to me what an argumentative bunch of... people... some of you are.


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## Vince.1551 (Oct 30, 2014)

One man's ignorance ... fall of nations - VL


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## Overread (Oct 30, 2014)

EVERYONE CALM DOWN

Seriously this is not an issue to get all worked up about.



In more important news - Jim - has the camera arrived yet - has it has it has it has it??!??!


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## photoguy99 (Oct 30, 2014)

It's maddening. I state some trivial clarifying little fact and a get a raft of crap from people who don't know the trivial fact and apparently want very very very much to continue to not know it.

It happens over and over on this forum.


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## Vince.1551 (Oct 30, 2014)

So says the 'know it all' crap maker. It's not the first time anyway ... lol


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## photoguy99 (Oct 30, 2014)

And it's always the same small cast of vigilant posters who want to argue about it.


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## DevC (Oct 30, 2014)

Eek, threads getting ugly again.


I'm out. Peace.


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## JimMcClain (Oct 30, 2014)

Overread said:


> In more important news - Jim - has the camera arrived yet - has it has it has it has it??!??!


Ahhh, thanks for asking.  S'posed to be here tomorrow. I am beside myself. I feel like a little kid waiting for Santa - and it won't be dissimilar. My normal hours are at bed by around 4am, up around 11am and UPS usually delivers about 9:30am, but sometimes not until mid-afternoon. This package requires a signature, so I will either be awakened early, or, which may be the more likely, since the driver knows me and my hours (small town), he'll wait until the afternoon.

I was just sent a newsletter project that always seems to be last minute (Jim, can you get this done by Sunday noon) and I end up working on it straight through. So I'll prob'ly be awake at 9:30am anyway and will be disappointed to hear the familiar sound of the brown truck driving right by my apartment. Then, by 1 or 2pm, I will crash and burn.  I only hope, no matter what time or state of mind, I can hear the door bell.

And now you're wonderin' why I ain't working on the newsletter project now, insteada replying to this ship-wreck of a topic. Well, I actually came to unsubscribe because of all the foolishness and bickering. But you inspired me when you tried to salvage it, so I thought I better help you bail. 

Oh, PS: I did receive the extra battery and round eye cup I ordered from B&H already - came yesterday. Funny, holding the eye cup up to my face ain't quite the same feeling...


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## Overread (Oct 30, 2014)

Ahh good to hear its nearly there - and yeah these days with delivery companies sometimes that last day is a nightmare of waiting and waiting for the bell to ding (sometimes it never does till you pester them ). And yeah I've had the same, battery grip for my 7D arrived a few days before the camera - torment to have that and a spare battery I could do nothing with save stare at them (and press the shutter button and stuff....). 

I wouldn't worry about the silliness - arguments about what makes a pro are always generally quite silly extreme affairs.


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## JimMcClain (Oct 31, 2014)

A little over an hour ago, my door bell rang. I was prepared, but still was startled by the sound. The UPS driver said he knew, since it had to have a signature, that I would be anxious to receive it. I really haven't even looked over it that much because, as I mentioned yesterday, I am in the middle of working on a newsletter project for a client. But I snapped (and snapped is the proper term, in this case) some smartphone pictures for you guys.







The knife in this shot is older than me (65) - was my late father's pocket knife in the early 40s. I leave it open always and only use it to cut package tape.















Looks like everything that's s'posed to be there, is.





There is protective film over the LCD cover.





First things first: charge the battery.





Can't wait to play with it, but I have to. Work comes first. 'Sides, the project could get me closer to the Tamron 24-70mm 2.8 that is first on my list now.

Jim


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## Overread (Oct 31, 2014)

Nice - look forward to seeing some shots from the camera!
Good luck on the newsletter

Also - Nikon battery chargers look odd!


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## D-B-J (Oct 31, 2014)

Sweet!'


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## goooner (Oct 31, 2014)

Enjoy your new camera! I'm planning on getting some new glass myself. Probably around xmas


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## snerd (Oct 31, 2014)

Woo Hoo!! New stuff!!! Congrats!!!!


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## goodguy (Oct 31, 2014)

RichieT said:


> I pretty much stick to the 24-70 and Nikon 70-200 when I can.


Yep same here, unless its very dark I stick to the 24-70mm 2.8 or 70-200mm 2.8, two amazing lenses that cover 99% of my needs.


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## DevC (Oct 31, 2014)

Congratulations man.
Hope to see exquisite shots.


Out of curiousity, could you tell the shutter count of the refurb?


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## JimMcClain (Oct 31, 2014)

DevC said:


> Out of curiousity, could you tell the shutter count of the refurb?


Tell me how and I will. I haven't gotten to that in the manual, which is very slow reading because I am supposed to be working.


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## JimMcClain (Oct 31, 2014)

I'm guessing that isn't the kind of information that would be in the manual. I googled it though and found a site that gave me the count after I uploaded a basic JPEG. My refurbished D810 has a shutter count of 143 and 4 of those are mine. The average reported shutter life failures for a D810 indicates my camera has at least 31,000+ shutter actuations left.

Jim


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## Derrel (Oct 31, 2014)

Awesome possum!!!! You got the camera!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Great weekend in store!!!!

Enjoy it! Enjoy the hell out of it!


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## ruifo (Oct 31, 2014)

Contras, Jim!
Have fun!!


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## tirediron (Oct 31, 2014)

JimMcClain said:


> I'm guessing that isn't the kind of information that would be in the manual. I googled it though and found a site that gave me the count after I uploaded a basic JPEG. My refurbished D810 has a shutter count of 143 and 4 of those are mine. The average reported shutter life failures for a D810 indicates my camera has at least 31,000+ shutter actuations left.
> 
> Jim


It _*should have*_ about 5x that number!  Congrats on the new gear!


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## Roba (Oct 31, 2014)

Wow great purchase!!
Enjoy your new toy


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## DevC (Nov 3, 2014)

JimMcClain said:


> DevC said:
> 
> 
> > Out of curiousity, could you tell the shutter count of the refurb?
> ...


You can check it out by uploading a jpeg small here:
Nikon Shutter Count


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