# Senior Portraits, Need Help!!



## manderb1 (Aug 3, 2008)

The senior portrait I took yesterday turned out well, but I need some advice. 
Here are two of the same. One is edited, the other IS NOT. My question is this.
Should I remove her mole of her cheek? She looks more chic without it but it gives her character, it like a defining feature maybe. I don't know what to do! Any advice....PLEASE. Should I all the portrait without, some, none? Thanks

UNEDITED






EDITED 





another UNEDITED





another EDITED


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## icassell (Aug 3, 2008)

Give your model the choice!  She may consider her mole a defining characteristic!


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## manderb1 (Aug 3, 2008)

What should I ask? How would you ask tactfully? I don't want her to feel like its a flaw.


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## icassell (Aug 3, 2008)

...hmmmm


how about giving her proofs of it both ways ... see if she notices ... see what she picks ...

Frankly, I think she's very pretty and the mole doesn't detract.


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## manderb1 (Aug 3, 2008)

That sounds like a good plan. Once I get them edited I will post some more. She was a PLEASURE to shoot with.


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## Sarah23 (Aug 3, 2008)

I say leave it unless she asks specifically for it to be removed. Its part of her face...if you remove it she might take it wrong, like you think its ugly or something. (not saying you do...but being an 18 year old girl, you never know what will get to them)

One thing....I think the edited ones look a bit TOO processed. Especially the skin. It looks blotchy from all the softening and retouching.


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## astrostu (Aug 3, 2008)

I think the edited picture (2nd picture posted) is way too blurry.  The skin also looks like an unnatural color.

I would also suggest doing a soft cloning out of the little baggies under her eyes.


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## SpeedTrap (Aug 3, 2008)

I have to agree with astrostu, whatever technique you are using on the skin is not right.
You need to do the skin adjustments in after the initial clean up


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## tirediron (Aug 3, 2008)

Sarah23 said:


> I say leave it unless she asks specifically for it to be removed. Its part of her face...


 
Agree!  It's not our place to make decisions for the customer.


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## cofphoto (Aug 4, 2008)

Acne - I always remove.  Moles or anything more permanent I never remove.  But, I might mention something during the proofing session that I could remove it if she wanted it removed.  

To me, it would seem odd if it were removed in some photos and not in others.  So whatever you do, be consistant.


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## Deadeye008 (Aug 4, 2008)

I usually leave any permanent features unless the client asks me to remove them. If it was acne or something like that then I would definitely remove it.


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## manderb1 (Aug 4, 2008)

Thank you for all the replies. This was my first senior session and I want to make sure she gets what she wants. I believe I am going to show her every portrait with the mole and without the mole and she what she likes best. I just hope by me removing the mole she doesn't take it offensive.... Maybe I should just leave the mole. She such a pretty girl and that makes her "look" more unique.


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## Sarah23 (Aug 4, 2008)

I would just show her the ones WITH it, and then if she asks to have it removed, then print ones with it removed. Since you already have them done anyway, its not like it will take more time for you to remove it. But since its part of her face, and she didn't ask ahead of time, I would leave it. I have a birth mark on my forehead, and if someone took it off without me ASKING, I think I would wonder why the heck they took it off. If it was a pimple, thats one thing, but a permanent part of her face it a whole other story.


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## Crimsonandwhite (Aug 4, 2008)

Ok, since your photos are ok to edit   I wanted to try and touch up her skin as I need the practice.  Am I getting closer to a natural look?  The ones I have touched up in the past have all looked pretty fake..


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## Universal Polymath (Aug 5, 2008)

Not bad, Crimsonandwhite!  Though I think you might have gone a little too far around the eyes.  Especially under her left eye (our right), it looks a little flat.

When it comes to acne, I always remove it completely.  The patch tool always seems to do the trick for that.  I hardly ever find myself using a blurring filter on the skin, but when I do it's very minimally. 

But with a mole, a much more defining characteristic than acne and pimples that come and go, I might _minimize_ its appearance, but I'd never remove it altogether.  I use the patch tool to initially wipe the mole out, but then fade the effect down to 30-50% (go to 'Edit', and then 'Fade Patch Tool').  That way, it's still there (which I feel it should be - It _is_ a part of the model, after all), but it's just not quite as conspicuous.

That's just a thought.  But I have to echo everyone else too, though:  It really doesn't hurt to just ask!

:thumbup:


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## Crimsonandwhite (Aug 5, 2008)

Thanks for the advice Uni! What method do you guys use for eye bags? I have been using the heal brush and trying to do as little as possible. 

I also use the patch tool for acne and anything else that needs to be taken off. And blending it always does the trick.


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## holga girl (Aug 5, 2008)

cofphoto said:


> Acne - I always remove.  Moles or anything more permanent I never remove.  But, I might mention something during the proofing session that I could remove it if she wanted it removed.
> 
> To me, it would seem odd if it were removed in some photos and not in others.  So whatever you do, be consistant.



same here, i remove acne, scrapes etc. but anything like moles, scars etc. i leave in. 

also, when it is a child, and i have removed a scrape/sore i let the parents know. in one case, the parents liked the scrape on his knee because he had earned it climbing a tree. they wanted it in the photo so they could remember that time later.


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## SpeedTrap (Aug 5, 2008)

Crimsonandwhite said:


> What method do you guys use for eye bags?


 
I thend to create a new layer and use the clone stamp at about 15%, the trick is to change your clone source a few time to keep it even and natural looking. you willl need to do a few passes, but it keeps some of the detail under but covers the dark bags under the eyes.


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## Alpha (Aug 5, 2008)

The healing brush is normally perfectly fine. You may just be using it incorrectly. Make sure to sample from a textured area whenever possible, and avoid sampling the same area multiple times. Also, set the brush opacity to 0%. The clone stamp is generally not necessary unless there are macro patterns in need of preserving, eg. large pores and other textures. 

The real art in skin retouching is appreciating and minding physiology while editing.


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## Universal Polymath (Aug 5, 2008)

Crimsonandwhite said:


> Thanks for the advice Uni! What method do you guys use for eye bags?



I use the patch tool for that too, but then fade the effect down a bit (usually to around 50%).  Again, it's about minimizing them, without removing them completely.  When you completely wipe out the shadows under the eyes, the face suddenly loses depth and looks very flat.


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## MarcusM (Aug 5, 2008)

Agreed with above posters, I would keep the mole unless specifically asked to remove it. I would also not show her any of the above edits that you posted.

No offense but they do not look professional at all. They really look way too processed and give her face a splotchy, unnatural look.

Also, just a suggestion, you may want to adjust your WB. There looks like a heavy blue cast in her shirt.


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## Crimsonandwhite (Aug 5, 2008)

Ok taking what you guys said into consideration.  I watched my shadows around the eyes and tried to keep her looking as natural as possible and only added a touch of blur to the skin to reduce the pores.  Can you tell a difference?  After listening to you guys I noticed the shadows and skin tones around the eyes and tried to carry them into the brushing areas....


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## manderb1 (Aug 6, 2008)

Ok, my techinque is way off! Can someone please help and give me maybe a step by step of how to better edit them? The way I learned must not be right at all. The edits you guys are posting do look WAY better than what I have done. Thanks in advance, you all have been so very helpful!


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## Alpha (Aug 6, 2008)

Here's a general editing workflow. I can't really explain succinctly how to retouch the face simply by typing, so I'll just say healing brush @ 0% opacity and watch out for splotchiness.


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## LuckyStarPhotography (Aug 12, 2008)

This may be a mute point now, but other than acne, scratches, or dirt I don't remove anything from the skin. I have gotten myself in trouble twice. Once for removing a back tattoo on a bride. I only did it on one shot & mostly for practice, I didn't intend for her to see it but I forgot to take it out of the ones I showed her. She wasn't happy. Another was on a whole batch of senior pictures I did. I took out a mole on a girls arm and she was not happy. Thankfully I had all the originals still, but I think she still felt a bit disgruntled by it. I wouldn't even show the ones with the mole removed. Unless she asks you to remove it; leave it. IMHO


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## Alpha (Aug 12, 2008)

LuckyStarPhotography said:


> This may be a mute point now, but other than acne, scratches, or dirt I don't remove anything from the skin.



Unless you're shooting classical portraiture or have someone who specifically requests no retouch, this makes little sense. Who wants bags under their eyes in the senior portrait?

Moles and tattoos of course, should stay unless the model or client asks for them to be removed.


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## skieur (Aug 13, 2008)

LuckyStarPhotography said:


> This may be a mute point now, but other than acne, scratches, or dirt I don't remove anything from the skin. I have gotten myself in trouble twice. Once for removing a back tattoo on a bride. I only did it on one shot & mostly for practice, I didn't intend for her to see it but I forgot to take it out of the ones I showed her. She wasn't happy. Another was on a whole batch of senior pictures I did. I took out a mole on a girls arm and she was not happy. Thankfully I had all the originals still, but I think she still felt a bit disgruntled by it. I wouldn't even show the ones with the mole removed. Unless she asks you to remove it; leave it. IMHO


 
If in doubt, compromise by keeping the mole, but de-emphasizing it through touch-up, making it less noticeable.

skieur


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## LuckyStarPhotography (Aug 13, 2008)

Alpha said:


> Unless you're shooting classical portraiture or have someone who specifically requests no retouch, this makes little sense. Who wants bags under their eyes in the senior portrait?
> 
> Moles and tattoos of course, should stay unless the model or client asks for them to be removed.


 
Yes, or course eye bags too. Or nose hairs, razor nicks, or anything other blemish type flaw.:meh:


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## manderb1 (Aug 13, 2008)

Thanks for all the advice. I left the mole on her face. She LOVED the images, and she booked another session for us to do downtown. I thank all you for the help!!


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## bellacat (Aug 14, 2008)

looks like you already got some great advice and i'm glad she loved the photos 

I recently had a session with 3 sisters. The youngest had horrible acne but i didn't want her to feel self conscience about it. I asked all the sisters in general if they wanted retouching and they said only minimal. I opted to show a sample photo where i took out the acne on the youngest and she loved it. I left moles and such to keep things natural though.

good luck on your down town session  I look forward to seeing those


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