# How many lights?



## adamhiram (Nov 13, 2021)

I currently have 3 monolights and have been considering picking up a 4th.  It's that time of year when everything is on sale and I am on the fence whether I will get much use out of another one.  I also thought this would be a good opportunity for a broader discussion on how many lights people typically use for various studio shoots.

My most common lighting setup for portraiture uses 2 lights: a key light and a background light, typically with a reflector for fill.  Occasionally I will use 3 lights: 2 on the backdrop to cross-light more evenly, or very rarely, I will add a hair or rim light for darker backgrounds.  However only on maybe 1 or 2 occasions have I wished I had an additional light, and just used a speedlight to make it work.

How often do you use a 4th light (or more), and what do you use it for?  I'm happy to add another strobe to my home studio, but not if it will just end up collecting dust on the shelf!


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## NS: Nikon Shooter (Nov 13, 2021)

-

In all, I have 7 and rarely are they all used at one time. That said,
during a shoot, it is better to have one too many than fall short.

Reflectors are greatly useful but sometimes may not be enough.
Often, I will set two heads beside another. An extra plus for mo-
re heads in my operation is that my sons may be shooting on lo-
cation and there are still some available for studio works.

More also means you can extend your possibilities… like with a
portrait. That may improve substantially the diversity of solutions.

Have a good time!


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## Trever1t (Nov 14, 2021)

I have a full studio of equipment with lighting and modifiers, stands, reflectors, etc.... I only use 1 light for my shoots if any. Rarely do I need to use 2. If I'm shooting a paid gig I'll bring double redundancy for everything.


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## NS: Nikon Shooter (Nov 14, 2021)

Trever1t said:


> If I'm shooting a paid gig I'll bring double redundancy for everything.



On any set, that something fails is normal but it is not
acceptable that one did not take preventive measures.


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## smoke665 (Nov 14, 2021)

All told I have 6 monolights, and reflectors ranging from small to 4x8 flats. Rarely do I use all of them. Typical setup is a Key, Fill, Kicker, and a background (if needed). Of late I'm really loving the 72" umbrella with diffusion, If I had the headroom I'd get an even bigger one. The light is so soft. 

A 4th light wouldn't hurt, but you also need modifiers, be it soft boxes, umbrellas, grids, etc., to shape and modify.


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## adamhiram (Nov 14, 2021)

Trever1t said:


> I have a full studio of equipment with lighting and modifiers, stands, reflectors, etc.... I only use 1 light for my shoots if any. Rarely do I need to use 2. If I'm shooting a paid gig I'll bring double redundancy for everything.


Same here - for location shoots I'll often bring a single light, for studio shoots I rarely use more than 2.  I don't do any paid work, so redundancy hasn't been a major concern, and I have a handful of speedlights with S2 brackets to use in Bowens mount modifiers in a pinch.  Thanks for sharing, my observation has been that people seem to stick to 1-2 lights, or go all-out with 3-5.


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## adamhiram (Nov 14, 2021)

smoke665 said:


> All told I have 6 monolights, and reflectors ranging from small to 4x8 flats. Rarely do I use all of them. Typical setup is a Key, Fill, Kicker, and a background (if needed). Of late I'm really loving the 72" umbrella with diffusion, If I had the headroom I'd get an even bigger one. The light is so soft.
> 
> A 4th light wouldn't hurt, but you also need modifiers, be it soft boxes, umbrellas, grids, etc., to shape and modify.


Thanks, William, I was hoping you would reply!  I think I might just go ahead and pickup a 4th light to have when I want it.  I have a good sized collection of modifiers, from umbrellas, to reflectors, grids, and barn doors, to small and medium rectangular and square soft boxes, to large octoboxes and striplights.  I mean you can never go wrong with more options, but I think I'm in good shape there!


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## ac12 (Nov 14, 2021)

I think it comes down to what YOU want, or what is needed for the effect that YOU want.
Different lighting call for different number of lights.  Look at the various portrait photography books, and you will see what the lighting requirements are for the various types of lighting.

Example, If you want the traditional lighting, then it is four; key, fill, background and hair.  And coincidentally, my packs are made for four heads.
Today, I've seen it down to two lights, umbrella or softbox and background.

Decades ago, I recall seeing a light in a studio which had four heads, one above the other.  I think it was for vertically even full length lighting, like for a bride.  I think it can be somewhat duplicated with a strip light,
I never asked the photographer what and how the various lights in his studio were used for.  Dumb kid, that was a great opportunity to learn, that I let slip through my fingers.


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## mrca (Nov 15, 2021)

Can't be too skinny, too rich or have too many lights.  As McNally said, I can nuke shot.  I have 5 einsteins, 5 hot lights, 4 speedlights.    Let there be light.  Just have to be careful with the circuit breakers.


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## ac12 (Nov 15, 2021)

mrca said:


> Can't be too skinny, too rich or have too many lights.  As McNally said, I can nuke shot.  I have 5 einsteins, 5 hot lights, 4 speedlights.    Let there be light. * Just have to be careful with the circuit breakers.*



The last sentence is a major consideration for many people.
In my house, I only have 15 amp circuits.  And except for the kitchen, no room has more than ONE circuit.
If I need to use more power, I have to run a high current extension cord from another circuit in another room to the room that I am shooting in.


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## mrca (Nov 15, 2021)

AC, exactly. When I am on a location shoot with hot lights, I always have a flashlight and before starting I  locate the breakers and check what amperage the circuits have.  The flash light is there if the breakers trip  and everything goes dark.  With strobes, put 5 strobes on a 15 amp circuit and you could be kicking breakers regularly even if not at full power.


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## smoke665 (Nov 15, 2021)

ac12 said:


> The last sentence is a major consideration for many people.
> In my house, I only have 15 amp circuits.


When we built the house, I tried to consider all the contingencies. We have 400amp service to the house.  My dual purpose garage/studio, has a separate 20 amp circuit. If that doesn't cut it I have a PB Vagabond pack, and if that still isn't enough a 3500watt inverter/generator, or I can hook up another breaker. Haven't been low on power yet.  LOL


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## ac12 (Nov 15, 2021)

smoke665 said:


> When we built the house, I tried to consider all the contingencies. We have 400amp service to the house.  My dual purpose garage/studio, has a separate 20 amp circuit. If that doesn't cut it I have a PB Vagabond pack, and if that still isn't enough a 3500watt inverter/generator, or I can hook up another breaker. Haven't been low on power yet.  LOL



Drool  

I think my main panel is only 100 amps.
I've been considering upgrading the service and putting in a new breaker box.

One reason is to get rid of the half size breakers.  My electrician recently moved a circuit from a half-breaker to a full-size breaker, because the half-size breaker it was on was failing every couple of years.
The second is to do like yours, a separate 20amp circuit for the garage.
And I want a circuit under the house, so that I can make a darkroom.


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## adamhiram (Nov 15, 2021)

smoke665 said:


> When we built the house, I tried to consider all the contingencies. We have 400amp service to the house.  My dual purpose garage/studio, has a separate 20 amp circuit. If that doesn't cut it I have a PB Vagabond pack, and if that still isn't enough a 3500watt inverter/generator, or I can hook up another breaker. Haven't been low on power yet.  LOL


When we bought our house, it came with a 10'x20' finished office space in the basement with 96 outlets.  I figured it was a DIY job and would need to be rewired, but it turns out it was 100% up to code with 4x20A circuits coming from a dedicated subpanel.  Apparently the original owner used it as a server room and ran a 20A circuit to each wall.  Unfortunately the ceilings are too low down there, so I do most of my photography in the living room above.  Fortunately my strobes are all monolights that run off of batteries.


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## smoke665 (Nov 15, 2021)

@ac12 the cost to overpower is not that much in the big scheme of things, labor is the same, slightly higher (sometimes). Just redid the electrical at our Lake lot. A 200 amp panel was the same price as a 100 amp?????

@adamhiram do you get much color variation as the batteries draw down?


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## ac12 (Nov 15, 2021)

I don't know why it was made small when the house was built.
But then back in the 70s, they did not use as much power consuming stuff as we do today.
Although the decision of circuits still puzzles me.

I'm glad I'm not in the flat that I rented in San Francisco, 30 years ago.  The entire flat was on only THREE fuses.   

Yes, as you said, the labor is going to be the same, so when I finally do upgrade the main panel, I will probably go with something like a 200amp unit (so that I have plenty of extra capacity), and a LARGE breaker panel so I don't have to use those troublesome half-size breakers, and have spare capacity for additional circuits.


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## smoke665 (Nov 15, 2021)

@ac12 I can remember when a 60 amp panel was standard, but as you said the load requirement was different. We needed the bigger service because we're all electric, with two heat pumps, and a 30x40 shop. Putting a bigger panel in is going to depend on the existing wiring. It gets expensive rewiring existing structures.


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## adamhiram (Nov 15, 2021)

smoke665 said:


> @adamhiram do you get much color variation as the batteries draw down?


Not that I've noticed, and the Flashpoint XPLOR 400Pro (Godox AD400Pro) has a color stable mode that is supposed to help with that.  I've never measured it, but I also haven't noticed any color shifts while editing, and I've taken hundreds of shots during a shoot without issue.  I probably get more color cast from the brown-tone walls than anything else, although that tends to warm things up slightly, and I take white balance readings before shooting anyway.


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## ac12 (Nov 15, 2021)

smoke665 said:


> @ac12 I can remember when a 60 amp panel was standard, but as you said the load requirement was different. We needed the bigger service because we're all electric, with two heat pumps, and a 30x40 shop. Putting a bigger panel in is going to depend on the existing wiring. It gets expensive rewiring existing structures.



Agree about the rewiring.  So the initial plan is minimal
- replace the service panel, 100A to 200A
- then run a conduit (so they don't have to tear open the wall) and new line, to the main breaker panel.  The line from the service panel to the main breaker panel is probably only rated for 100 or 125A.
- replace the main breaker panel with one with more breakers.
- - Then I can eliminate the half size breakers, and have a few spare circuits to expand into.


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## smoke665 (Nov 15, 2021)

@ac12 good plan, but you do realize that your looking at a 3" dia. conduit?


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## ac12 (Nov 15, 2021)

smoke665 said:


> @ac12 good plan, but you do realize that your looking at a 3" dia. conduit?



No.  I better go talk to the electrician again.
It would be in the garage, so a large conduit won't be an issue.

I could split the breaker panels.  
100A to the current panel, so nothing changes, and 100A to a new panel for new circuits.
But that still leaves all the half-size breakers in the current panel.

I could move the main breaker panel to the wall near the service panel, but that would require significant rewiring $$$$.

sigh


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## smoke665 (Nov 16, 2021)

@ac12 I was thinking about it last night and  think I overstated conduit for entry, you'll need at least 2 dia." for the service entry. I'm not a licenced  electrician but I've done enough wiring over the years to get by. As to splitting a box to another panel, you still have to consider the capacity of the entry cable.

Not to drift off Adam's thread but electrical service is a consideration on the number of lights you can use, unless you're on batterry power. When I  reached out to Paul Buff on my AB's, I got a lot of stuttering and stammering but no hard answers. It boils down to the WS of the light and the capacitor  discharge level. In practice, after the initial power on,  I don't need to shoot at 100 percent power on every light, which significantly reduces the power required for recharging the capacitors. In practice I have run as many as 6  mono lights ranging 400WS to 800WS on a 20 amp circuit without issue. Speedotron doesn't really specify with their pack system what amps a circuit needs, but I'd be willing to bet it will run on a 20amp circuit as well.

A 20 amp breaker will handle some surge without tripping. A 20 amp breaker will trip after a sustained draw of 27 amps for 1 hour, and will handle a 40 amp draw for 120 seconds.


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## adamhiram (Nov 16, 2021)

adamhiram said:


> I think I might just go ahead and pickup a 4th light


Follow-up: I picked up a 4th light.  For some reason the sale wouldn't go through online and I had to call Adorama on the phone, but they were very helpful and put it through.  For anyone interested, XPLOR 400Pro normally sells for $649, currently listed fort $519, but actually on sale for $419 if you have a promo link or just call, which is the lowest I've seen them.


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