# My daughter needs a film rangefinder/SLR for her school...



## Anthony Fawkes LTD (Mar 14, 2011)

She is now in her 2nd year at her Photography School and now she has to buy a film rangefinder or SLR. Since I have always shot digital I am not very well aware of what's on the market. Of course she dreams of having a Leica but I've told her that this is out of the question as the maximum budget is £800. Not a penny more.

She wants something reliable and tough and she wants me to buy it new... (I told her it's probably easy to find used film cameras at very interesting prices but she just won't listen to me, after all I am just her father.) Anyway, she has her eyes on the Voigtlander Bessa R2M. Anyone heard of it? Any other recommendations? Thanks.

PS: She shoots Nikon for digital so maybe she should consider a Nikon body so that she can use her existing lenses I think but well. Please let me know what you think.


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## dxqcanada (Mar 14, 2011)

Hmm, Leica M3 -> Leica M3 Double Stroke Body ( Circa 1954 ) GWO on eBay (end time 10-Apr-11 17:49:22 BST)

I can sense her attraction to Range Finders ... I have always wanted a Leica.
Leica M Mount Camera List

I would suggest a Nikon FM2 or the F2 to utilize here existing lenses if they are not APS-C format ... it would be more useful in Photography School.


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## Anthony Fawkes LTD (Mar 14, 2011)

Gah, I think she is a snob and just wants a Leica to make her friends jealous.  But yes we shoot FX! She has a D700. She should thank God on her knees every day for having me as father. Lol.


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## PASM (Mar 14, 2011)

Yashica GSN / GTN (aperture priority) rangefinder. 1.7/45 color-Yashinon lens.
Google Traduction


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## Derrel (Mar 14, 2011)

I have a Bessa-R and the 35/1.8, 50/1.5,and 75/2.5 lenses. It's been a nice camera,and the lenses are quite,quite good. I would expect that the later R2-M is an even-nice camera than my R. The viewfinder brightness of the R-series is pretty amazing for a non-Leica rangefinder. There is a simply FABULOUS USA-based site that deals heavily in rangefinder cameras, and especially the entire Bessa lineup. The site is CameraQuest Home Page and is well,well worth a night or two of reading and studying, as it has some marvelous articles on all aspects of rangefinder equipment.,


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## Alpha (Mar 14, 2011)

Any rangefinder of that caliber is going to be way out of price range, if not because of the expensive body then because of the lenses.

If she wants a Leica, I would go with the Leica R series. The glass is still fantastic and much cheaper. You may be able to find a "new" R8 within your price range.

If you're going to stay with Nikon, I think an F100 or an F5 would be the way to go, since it seems to easily be in your budget.


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## Sw1tchFX (Mar 14, 2011)

I don't know much about rangefinders, but if you get an SLR, like what Alpha said, get her an F100 or F5. I have the F100 and D700, and the F100 is a rockstar. I like the F100 more than the F5 because the F5 is just too big and heavy, the F100 fits perfect in my hands and is plenty quick, It's kind of like an F5 without the vertical grip.


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## Alex_Holland (Mar 15, 2011)

Just get her an AE-1 or an AE-1 Program or something. That would be plenty to get her through school and you could get one and some lenses possible for like 120 American, or however much that is English Pounds. I guess like 100 pounds.


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## ghache (Mar 15, 2011)

I realy like my FE. I wouldnt invest 800 on a 35mm film camera.


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## Anthony Fawkes LTD (Mar 15, 2011)

I don't think she should have a Leica at 16. Even I never had a Leica.


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## ghache (Mar 15, 2011)

Anthony Fawkes LTD said:


> I don't think she should have a Leica at 16. Even I never had a Leica.



Why? you need a licence to drive a Leica?


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## usayit (Mar 15, 2011)

I absolutely love my M3.

But

In this case I would vote against it.   For a student, the price is hard to swallow.  Cameras from the 1950s are most likely in need of a CLA. Leica CLA is not only difficult to find but expensive as well.   Lets not forget CLA for the lenses of that time period as well.   Finally, old Leica branded items tend to hold their value very well... old lenses are also going to be expensive and that's before CLA.  If you are still dead set on a Leica, I also would recommend considering the M2 instead.   The M2 will be slightly cheaper than the M3 on the market, it is newer, AND has the 35-50-90 famelines which (IMO) is more useful.  

I too also recommend considering the voigtlander bessa rangefinders.... very good quality for a fraction of the Leica equivalents.   CameraQuest Home Page is well respected US vendor.  They have a very wide selection of versions.  Basically its a decision between framelines set, viewfinder magnification and mechancial versus electronic.   For me, it would be a toss up between the R4A (Wide angle framelines!!!!) and the R3A (1:1 viewfinder magnification).  

Another that I really like is the Konica Hexar Leica M-mount.... a bit harder to find.  Less likely requiring a CLA and very advanced in terms of features. 


In the SLR side of things....

I'm more likely to recommend a newer SLR film body; Nikon, Canon or Pentax.  They are dirt cheap.  Elan's, 1v, AE2, MX, LX,  etc..   All of them are relatively new and use current lenses that can migrate to DSLRs whenever that happens.   Consider choosing one that has an electronic vertical shutter  rather than a cloth shutter; less likely to need CLA and better sync times.   No doubt, you'll spend less on an SLR than on a rangefinder.

On the occasion that I take photography classes at the local community college (just for fun), I usually leave the Leica at home and take along an ElanIIe with a Tamron 35-105 f/2.8 aspherical.   I think the layout is absolutely simple to use (which I like) and has less annoying red AF assist light in low light conditions.


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## Alpha (Mar 15, 2011)

I agree that the Bessa is a good alternative, but even a Bessa or a Zeiss Ikon is going to kill you on lens costs. 

Nikon also sells the FM10 new, though I haven't used it.


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## benhasajeep (Mar 15, 2011)

Anthony Fawkes LTD said:


> She is now in her 2nd year at her Photography School and now she has to buy a film rangefinder or SLR. Since I have always shot digital I am not very well aware of what's on the market. Of course she dreams of having a Leica but I've told her that this is out of the question as the maximum budget is £800. Not a penny more.
> 
> She wants something reliable and tough and she wants me to buy it new... (I told her it's probably easy to find used film cameras at very interesting prices but she just won't listen to me, after all I am just her father.) Anyway, she has her eyes on the Voigtlander Bessa R2M. Anyone heard of it? Any other recommendations? Thanks.
> 
> PS: She shoots Nikon for digital so maybe she should consider a Nikon body so that she can use her existing lenses I think but well. Please let me know what you think.


 
I would highly suggest she buy a Nikon N90s or F100 body. They are all over used. They are very capable bodies and have full manual functions (advanced amature bodies). They will also drive AF-S lenses built and designed for full frame (non-DX lenses). Also there is a very good chance any lens she would buy for it could be used on her digital deppending on what body she has now. Or if she has a digital body without a body drive focusing motor. A body driven lens may work on a DSLR she buys in the future. D80 and above.

If it were me I would chose a F100. I have one and still use it. I believe older AF film bodies lower than N90's do not fully work with newer designed AF-S lenses. www.keh.com  They have a LN- for $479 (LN- is Like New minus,  basically will look brand new).  They would be good cameras to get. As for lenses you could chose any Nikon lens Ai manual focus and above for her to use. Not sure if the class wants MF lens or not. But the body will work with MF lenses and AF lenses. The bonus is the body could be used with newer lenses as well (full frame lenses).


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## djacobox372 (Mar 15, 2011)

Since she shoots nikon, look no further then a nikon F100, only around $175 in mint condition on ebay these days.  It's one of the best film slr's ever made, and compatible with every new nikon lens as long as it's full frame (not dx).  The body and layout is also very similar to modern nikon dslr's so the learning curve will be easy.  It's a pro-quality, metal body camera that cost well over $1000 new. 







If she wants something more simple and "retro" then I'd suggest a Nikon FE2, which sell for around $100--these will also use modern nikon lenses provided they have an aperture ring (not G) and are full frame:






A lot of people would suggest something in the FM series, but I prefer the FE because it has aperture priority mode.


Of course is seems like your daughter wants something expensive to show off.  If that's the case consider a gold plated, snake skin Nikon FA which cost only around $2500:


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## djacobox372 (Mar 15, 2011)

benhasajeep said:


> Anthony Fawkes LTD said:
> 
> 
> > She is now in her 2nd year at her Photography School and now she has to buy a film rangefinder or SLR. Since I have always shot digital I am not very well aware of what's on the market. Of course she dreams of having a Leica but I've told her that this is out of the question as the maximum budget is £800. Not a penny more.
> ...



$497 is WAY overpriced for a F100.  You can get a "like new" body for less then $200 on ebay.


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## Mike_E (Mar 15, 2011)

Another vote for an F100.  It can use any lens her digital can, even the DXs.  Expect vignetting with the DXs though.


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## benhasajeep (Mar 15, 2011)

If she wants brand new. Nikon sells a brand new FM10 manual focus camera for around $300 from major outlets. Includes a 35-70mm manual focus lens. This is basically a photo school film camera! Full manual control camera with built in light meter.

Part of buying from KEH is knowing if they rate a camera, the rating will be accurate. I have seen many so described perfect items on eBay show alot of brassing. Or Perfect lenses with just a little dust inside. It's not perfect if it has brassing or dust! His original post also says she wants brand new. Just felt a Like New minus camera might satisfy her.


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## djacobox372 (Mar 16, 2011)

benhasajeep said:


> If she wants brand new. Nikon sells a brand new FM10 manual focus camera for around $300 from major outlets. Includes a 35-70mm manual focus lens. This is basically a photo school film camera! Full manual control camera with built in light meter.
> 
> Part of buying from KEH is knowing if they rate a camera, the rating will be accurate. I have seen many so described perfect items on eBay show alot of brassing. Or Perfect lenses with just a little dust inside. It's not perfect if it has brassing or dust! His original post also says she wants brand new. Just felt a Like New minus camera might satisfy her.


 
As long as the ebay ad has a return policy, it's no more risk then KEH.  And you get a lot more photos on ebay then keh.

If an older lens has dust in it, it's probably because it hasn't been taken apart and repaired--a dustless lens that is a 10 years old is suspect.  I highly doubt a "mint" or "like new" lens form KEH is without any dust.


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## benhasajeep (Mar 16, 2011)

djacobox372 said:


> As long as the ebay ad has a return policy, it's no more risk then KEH. And you get a lot more photos on ebay then keh.
> 
> If an older lens has dust in it, it's probably because it hasn't been taken apart and repaired--a dustless lens that is a 10 years old is suspect. I highly doubt a "mint" or "like new" lens form KEH is without any dust.


 
Some ebay members return policy is 3 days, maybe 7 days. Thats not enough in my case.  Sometime I order things while I am gone.  And my wife will sign for it.  It may sit a week or more, before I can check it out.  So, those small return windows means little to me.   And yes I have had problems with a seller and getting money back from Paypal is not as easy as they make it sound!!! Matter of fact it's a pain in the butt!! But I have personally purchased gear from Ebay. Most was as described. Several were what I consider at least a level or two grades below what was described. Plus not all people are willing to buy on eBay or Craigslist. To them the savings is not worth the percieved risk.

I have about 9 -10 items from Keh. Each and every one was better than I expected (so much so, I now expect it). And the lenses I purchased did not have any dust in them (Bronica SQ lenses, so not so new). I have never been dissapointed with KEH. Not saying they are perfect, as nobody is. But for me personally, they have a very good track record.


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## Mike_E (Mar 16, 2011)

If you want to buy it and forget it then KEH is the way to go.  As far as buying new, if you won't feel it then go ahead.  If you're like 95% of the parents out there a good used camera for school is the way to go.  If at a later time you want to get her a present then knock yourself out on the Leica.  


If you have a sense of humor then get her the F100 and a Fed 2.


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## Alex_Holland (Mar 19, 2011)

If she's a student she needs something manual that she has to learn how to set exposures on. Most older SLR's are manual, but some of the newer ones have auto mode and she doesn't need the camera to wipe her ass for her because then she'll never learn anything.


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## trojancast (Mar 20, 2011)

I'm with Alex.  She needs a fully manual camera for photo school.  Go to freestylephoto online and look at their selection of new manual film cameras for students.


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