# Amish boy caught me by surprise  C&C



## LLD (Jan 25, 2013)

This young boy caught me by surprise and came driving quickly by the car.  I shot this through my windshield and had a 70-300 lens on my Nikon D7000.   Would love to know what you think ~ now I'm thinking I should have turned around and got him after he passed but I got so excited to catch him.


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## ceejtank (Jan 25, 2013)

The Amish usually don't like having their picture taken.


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## LLD (Jan 25, 2013)

ceejtank said:


> The Amish usually don't like having their picture taken.



I know, I should have captured the photo from the back. I was shooting horses in a farm across the road and then suddenly the horse and buggy came rushing down the road.  It was hard to let him go by without a photo.


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## CourtneyAK (Jan 25, 2013)

Who does like having their picture taken? I know I don't!


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## weepete (Jan 25, 2013)

Hmm, so you have a fair idea that the guy probably doesn't want to be photographed but you do it anyway, while admiting that you should have probably taken it behind his back. Knowing that you then post it online in a public forum for the whole world to see. 

Nice one.


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## Rick58 (Jan 25, 2013)

LLD said:


> ceejtank said:
> 
> 
> > The Amish usually don't like having their picture taken.
> ...



No, it's not really hard at all. Just don't press that little shutter thingy.


I live about 30 miles from the heart of Pa Amish country and go there on a regular basis. I routinely pass up beautiful photo's of the Amish at work and play... out of something called respect.

Ya know, I actually saw a tourist attempting to pose two young Amish children on a bench. When their father saw what was happening he was visibly upset, but never said a word to the tourist.

I have the utmost respect for these people


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## LLD (Jan 25, 2013)

I'm sure he won't see it ... so there you go!  I'm from that area near Lancaster and so do I.  I just don't think its as horrible as you guys apparently do.  They live in a modern world ~ they come into our world~  Have you ever taken a photo of a homeless person or an old person who didn't know you were shooting a photo.  I just don't see it like you do.


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## Rick58 (Jan 25, 2013)

Yeah, there you go


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## LLD (Jan 25, 2013)

My ancestors were no doubt Amish.. perhaps thats why it interests me.


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## CourtneyAK (Jan 25, 2013)

Everyone takes pictures of things that interest them, isn't that part of why we all are into photography?  You see a great image to capture, and you capture it...she is clearly interested in the Amish. You're telling me that if you saw an Amish carriage coming down the road while you had your camera in hand, you would just wave?


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## Rick58 (Jan 25, 2013)

This is COMPLETELY different. It's a religous belief for them. Their religion does not permit graven images. Even the little girls dolls can not have the likeness of a face


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## LLD (Jan 25, 2013)

You ever see the show Amish Mafia?


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## LLD (Jan 25, 2013)

First things first:  I can&#8217;t tell you how many times I&#8217;ve been asked, &#8220;Isn&#8217;t taking photographs of the Amish against their religion?&#8221;  Answer: NO, it&#8217;s not against an Amish person&#8217;s religion to be photographed.  The Amish religion does, however, prohibit POSING for photographs.  If you ask an Amish person for permission to take their picture, they will politely say no &#8211; as this could be construed as a willingness to &#8220;pose.&#8221; Most of my Amish friends say that they could care less if people take their picture . . . provided the photographers are respectful.  Many have recounted stories of tourists driving up their driveway and boldly walking onto their front lawn to take a photograph.  One woman recalled a time when a tourist stopped her buggy and held the reigns of the horse until his wife could get a photo!  Horror stories like these aren&#8217;t the norm, but keep in mind that a few disrespectful photographers can generate a great deal of bad feeling within the Amish community.
Traveling through Amish country can be a rewarding an enjoyable experience &#8211; especially when you bring back great photographs to share with family and friends.  This piece is designed to help you take better photos in Amish country while still respecting the culture and traditions of the Amish.

take from a web site geared towards photographing the Amish


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## Rick58 (Jan 25, 2013)

CourtneyAK said:


> Everyone takes pictures of things that interest them, isn't that part of why we all are into photography?  You see a great image to capture, and you capture it...she is clearly interested in the Amish. You're telling me that if you saw an Amish carriage coming down the road while you had your camera in hand, you would just wave?



Are you for real?! No, I would totally disrespect them because I WANTED a picture.


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## Designer (Jan 25, 2013)

Oh, well, in this shot the driver is hardly recognizable.  

Now the shot:  You have cropped this to within an inch of its life.  While the horse is nicely centered, the buggy is not, and you have included quite a bit of countryside that does not add to the shot.


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## LLD (Jan 25, 2013)

Thank you.  I just wanted advice.. not to be crucified for taking a single photograph.   Apparently everyone has a right to his or her ideas where this is concerned.  I wasn't following this person around ~ it just happened as I was photograph a horse across the street and this buggy came by.  I didn't ask him to stop.. I was IN the car .. I didn't follow him home.  I snapped a photo that came into my view while shooting the horses.   I wasn't trying to do harm.  I don't feel I did.   Everyone has their right to what they feel and so do I.   If you google Amish photography there are tons of different ideas.


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## CourtneyAK (Jan 25, 2013)

If you google AMISH...you will see hundreds of photographs of the Amish, there sure are a lot of disrespectful photographers...




Rick58 said:


> CourtneyAK said:
> 
> 
> > Everyone takes pictures of things that interest them, isn't that part of why we all are into photography?  You see a great image to capture, and you capture it...she is clearly interested in the Amish. You're telling me that if you saw an Amish carriage coming down the road while you had your camera in hand, you would just wave?
> ...


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## Mully (Jan 25, 2013)

Don't believe everything you see or read... I spent a week with an Amish family in Kalona Iowa in the late 1960's doing a story...I was able to take photos of their buggies, farms ...just not their people.  I have a great respect for them and even though I do not subscribe to their strict beliefs I respect them.


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## Derrel (Jan 25, 2013)

When I saw that post title I thought maybe you had taken a photo of an Amish boy with modern technology, like an iPod or something...


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## LLD (Jan 25, 2013)

Derrel said:


> When I saw that post title I thought maybe you had taken a photo of an Amish boy with modern technology, like an iPod or something...



I meant I was taking a photo of something else, while sitting in my car, and this boy came galloping by.  I didn't crop it or anything. I just shot the photo.  I actually liked the horse and the frozen whiskers.  There was a farm across the road I was taking photos of.   I wasn't trying to be disrespectful of this young boy.   He came into my line of photographing the horses.

I didn't think it was horrible posting it.  Apparently some have stronger opinions than I do.   With all the Breaking AMish, Amish Mafia, and other Amish programs I didn't think I was committing such a mortal sin against their religion.   iyiyiyiyiyi He probably never even saw me.


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## Rick58 (Jan 25, 2013)

The second commandment (Exodus 20:4)  "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth below, or that is in the water under the earth."

Huh? Apparently someone forgot the "unless they are not posed" clause

BTW, I'm out of this thread


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## LLD (Jan 25, 2013)

Rick58 said:


> The second commandment (Exodus 20:4)  "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth below, or that is in the water under the earth."
> 
> Huh? Apparently someone forgot the "unless they are not posed" clause
> 
> BTW, I'm out of this thread



Rick you need to lighten up....  quit looking at the photo if it bothers you to this extreme. You aren't going to change my idea on a shot I took while shooting horses across the road.


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## CourtneyAK (Jan 25, 2013)

Everyone has their own right to religion....pushing the commandments on someone who you have no idea what their religion is, or if they even believe in the bible.... 
We all have a rights to our own beliefs.....

The guy probably didn't even know she was taking a picture....and i'm sure that neither he nor his family are memebers of this forum and will probably never know this image exists...



Rick58 said:


> The second commandment (Exodus 20:4)  "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth below, or that is in the water under the earth."
> 
> Huh? Apparently someone forgot the "unless they are not posed" clause


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## weepete (Jan 25, 2013)

LLD said:


> I'm sure he won't see it ... so there you go!  I'm from that area near Lancaster and so do I.  I just don't think its as horrible as you guys apparently do.  They live in a modern world ~ they come into our world~  Have you ever taken a photo of a homeless person or an old person who didn't know you were shooting a photo.  I just don't see it like you do.



In a word no. And you asked for our thoughts, I gave you mine. At best you've been insensitive, I'd say its damn right rude considering you seem to be well aware of the issues no matter how you want to justify it to yourself. If you don't want different views don't ask for it.


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## CourtneyAK (Jan 25, 2013)

I believe we all ask for everyone's thoughts on this forum, technically.....not what you believe is rude or what you believe religiously...If you are so against the matter, why would you read the thread? If you were against or not interested in nude photography, would you click on a thread that's titled "Penis"?




weepete said:


> LLD said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sure he won't see it ... so there you go!  I'm from that area near Lancaster and so do I.  I just don't think its as horrible as you guys apparently do.  They live in a modern world ~ they come into our world~  Have you ever taken a photo of a homeless person or an old person who didn't know you were shooting a photo.  I just don't see it like you do.
> ...


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## LLD (Jan 25, 2013)

I didn't think it was rude. Apparently you do.  Thanks for your comment.  I was in Edinburgh recently and had anyone seen this buggy coming down the road I'd be safe to bet more than 1/2 would have taken a photo of them.  I didn't feel I was being rude.  I feel differently about it than you.


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## CCericola (Jan 25, 2013)

This is my Great-Great Grandmother when she left her Amish family and married a jeweler in Baltimore. Although we have lost touch with our Amish relatives I'm sure there are still blood relatives in Lancaster Co. The Amish today in Lancaster Co will not pose, will turn away from cameras themselves but welcome you to photograph their wares, buildings, etc... within reason. If you take a photo, they won't go chasing after you. They just do not have any "en graven images" of themselves in their homes. Some secs of Mennonites in Lancaster Co. have electricity, freezers and refrigerators in their barn. Because the barn is not their home. My rule of thumb, use a telephoto lens and try not to get faces. LLD's snap shot was not planned. Relax. The Amish are not as UN-approachable as you think. I have given many an Amish teen a ride in our car from time to time.


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## LLD (Jan 25, 2013)

CCericola said:


> This is my Great-Great Grandmother when she left her Amish family and married a jeweler in Baltimore. Although we have lost touch with our Amish relatives I'm sure there are still blood relatives in Lancaster Co. The Amish today in Lancaster Co will not pose, will turn away from cameras themselves but welcome you to photograph their wares, buildings, etc... within reason. If you take a photo, they won't go chasing after you. They just do not have any "en graven images" of themselves in their homes. Some secs of Mennonites in Lancaster Co. have electricity, freezers and refrigerators in their barn. Because the barn is not their home. My rule of thumb, use a telephoto lens and try not to get faces. LLD's snap shot was not planned. Relax. The Amish are not as UN-approachable as you think. I have given many an Amish teen a ride in our car from time to time.
> 
> View attachment 33865



Thank you.  She's just beautiful and I'd say you value this photo.  Thank you for posting it.


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## Derrel (Jan 25, 2013)

Thanks for bringing some sanity to this thread CC. Neat old family portrait! Check out her waistline!!! And you know that was before Photoshop!!!!


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## rexbobcat (Jan 25, 2013)

weepete said:
			
		

> In a word no. And you asked for our thoughts, I gave you mine. At best you've been insensitive, I'd say its damn right rude considering you seem to be well aware of the issues no matter how you want to justify it to yourself. If you don't want different views don't ask for it.



Your high and mighty attitude does not necessarily make you a better person. FYI.

You also argue that war and conflict photographers are incredibly rude, but at the same time it's kind of inevitable. "My heavens! You are soooo rude. For shame!" 

I can understand the respect of it all, but arguing about what is and isn't rude on an online forum is kind of pointless, because getting all offended by this photo/attitude is TOTALLY going to make the photo go away, right?

It doesn't help anyone. The "it's really rude, *******" argument can be applied to so many areas of photography such as PJ and street photography that it's kind of lost its meaning. I guess being a bad person is just part of being a photographer...

Just giving my opinion, of course.

Now can we please discuss the photo and stop talking about who has the better set of ethics. We already know who lives by the WWJD code, so let's move it along.


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## LLD (Jan 25, 2013)

This is my 2nd day as a member.. I thought maybe this site isn't for me... thank you for your words rexbobcat.  I thought maybe he's going to send me a big "A" for my chest because I'm took this Amish photo... thank you for your words.


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## weepete (Jan 25, 2013)

CourtneyAK said:


> I believe we all ask for everyone's thoughts on this forum, technically.....not what you believe is rude or what you believe religiously...If you are so against the matter, why would you read the thread? If you were against or not interested in nude photography, would you click on a thread that's titled "Penis"?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well for the record I don't belive in god, at all in any shape form or way. In answer to your question I try not to have a preconcepti

on of what any image might be. Despite the title I will have a gander and make up my mind on the image that I see. Personally I wouldnt have a problem with any image label. What annoys me about this photo is not that the subject is amish, but the idea that just because the op can take a pic he will. Not only that but he says he probably should've taken it from the back as he knows about the fact that should the pic be taken, and knowing about it the subject would most likley be uncomfortable with it!

 it's simply about respect for other people regardless of anything else.


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## CourtneyAK (Jan 25, 2013)

I don't believe they were asking for anyone's advice on if the picture was morally or ethically acceptable... I believe here on this forum, we ask for advice on the technical points in a photo. I believe in this whole thread, only one person voiced that. 

I myself may be rude, but if I had a photo op that no one could stop, no matter how morally or ethically it may be, Id take the Op for a once in a lifetime photo. -But who is really to judge what is or isn't rude or unacceptable.






weepete said:


> CourtneyAK said:
> 
> 
> > I believe we all ask for everyone's thoughts on this forum, technically.....not what you believe is rude or what you believe religiously...If you are so against the matter, why would you read the thread? If you were against or not interested in nude photography, would you click on a thread that's titled "Penis"?
> ...


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## thetrue (Jan 25, 2013)

weepete - so you take photos of....what? Rocks? 

If the OP stated that the Amish boy crossed his path as she clicked the shutter, would that have been acceptable to you - lord of all things photographic? If yes, then pretend that's what the OP said. Otherwise, add something useful or buzz off.

OP - that horse is majestic, I like the framing, making the horse the subject.


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## weepete (Jan 25, 2013)

rexbobcat said:


> weepete said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well, lets get the first thing out of the way, I certainly don't mean to come across as high and mighty,  I apolgise right now and for the record if I come across that way with my writeing, it's really not how I mean to come across. 

there was no mention of war photographers until you brought it up now, and no it's not the same thing.

Question is should you take a shot just because you can and if yes how does that make you different to the papperattzi?


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## CourtneyAK (Jan 25, 2013)

Paparazzi are still photographer's right? Who are you to judge what type of photographer they can be? And what does it really even matter? 



weepete said:


> rexbobcat said:
> 
> 
> > weepete said:
> ...


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## weepete (Jan 25, 2013)

thetrue said:


> weepete - so you take photos of....what? Rocks?
> 
> If the OP stated that the Amish boy crossed his path as she clicked the shutter, would that have been acceptable to you - lord of all things photographic? If yes, then pretend that's what the OP said. Otherwise, add something useful or buzz off.



yeah mate I do, Glasgow Rocks.  And no, I know I'm just a beginner like most, a hobbiest at best . And hey, like it or not just because you can take a pic doesn't mean you should.


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## TCampbell (Jan 25, 2013)

Soo.... three pages of posts later and you still don't have much "C&C" on the photo... only C&C on whether it was ok to take the photo.

MEANWHILE back to the photo.

The exposure is nice, the depth of field is nice, the focus is sharp on the front of the horse... but I think it lacks framing.  It's not so much a photo of a horse and buggy or even horse and driver... it's more a photo of a horse and the framing is a bit awkward.  Think about what you'd like as your subject and frame it.   e.g. if it's the horse and buggy then you'd need to zoom out a bit to get more in the frame and include more of the context in the composition.

If you wanted this to be more of the horse and driver then I'd rotate the camera sideways.


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## weepete (Jan 25, 2013)

CourtneyAK said:


> Paparazzi are still photographer's right? Who are you to judge what type of photographer they can be? And what does it really even matter?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Why, are you a pap?


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## CourtneyAK (Jan 25, 2013)

Unless that horse is Mr. Ed...I don't think she's the paparazzi 



weepete said:


> rexbobcat said:
> 
> 
> > weepete said:
> ...


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## weepete (Jan 25, 2013)

Sorry Courtney, the question was are you?


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## CourtneyAK (Jan 25, 2013)

weepete said:


> Sorry Courtney, the question was are you?



Does it matter either way?


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## LLD (Jan 25, 2013)

TCampbell said:


> Soo.... three pages of posts later and you still don't have much "C&C" on the photo... only C&C on whether it was ok to take the photo.
> 
> MEANWHILE back to the photo.
> 
> ...



I caught it quite by accident.  I was actually taking photos from the car and this buggy came roaring down on an ice packed road towards us.  I didn't really have time to react I just clicked.   But you're right it would have been a FAR better photo had I been prepared.   I appreciate your post and thoughts.  I'm REALLY new to this and never dreamed this would cause so much discussion.


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## CynthiaM (Jan 25, 2013)

I think the horse looks more surprised than what the photographer was.  Love the expression on old dobbin's face, the ears up tight.

side note....There's an old photographer named Bill Coleman who really did a wonder job photographing the Amish - he and my dad are good friends, they were at PSU together and oh the stories dad tells....


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## EIngerson (Jan 25, 2013)

I wish you had enough fore-warning to frame the horse and carriage better. That would be an awesome photo if nothing was cut off. Other than that, I'd say cool.


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## Designer (Jan 25, 2013)

weepete said:


> What annoys me about this photo is not that the subject is amish, but the idea that just because the op can take a pic he will.



There is a fundamental difference between art photographers and journalistic photographers, but it is all photography.


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## DBA (Jan 26, 2013)

LLD said:


> You ever see the show Amish Mafia?


You do realize that that show is scripted and the "real" Amish have nothing to do with it right?


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## baturn (Jan 26, 2013)

Rick has been gone for along time, but I'd like to clarify a point. The graven images in his quote from the bible refer to using and worshipping them as gods. Pretty sure it was not against sculpture, painting, carving or photography. If it was the catholic church is in big trouble.


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## o hey tyler (Jan 26, 2013)

I had no idea so many people on the internet were Amish scholars.


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## Derrel (Jan 26, 2013)

Here's a one-hour BBC Television program about an Amish family that opens their private life up to the cameras...I have not watched it...


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## Patriot (Jan 26, 2013)

ceejtank said:


> The Amish usually don't like having their picture taken.



So, we should be able to take a picture of whatever we want unless there is a rule against it such as a military base or something. I don't like country music, but I can I stop my neighbor from playing it? No I can't because it's his radio and music that he own and his right to listen to it. However I don't think the OP got in his face and made him feel uncomfortable since the subject moved in front of him unexpectedly. 


Well this thread is going to get locked down fast if everyone don't take a chill pill and relax.


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## LaFoto (Jan 26, 2013)

Oh my :shock:
I didn't even KNOW you're not supposed to take their photo when I did.
They never even expressed in body language or in any other manner that they did not want their photo taken. They eyed us very curiously all the while, listening in to us speaking German among each other, and I had the strong feeling they had a desire to establish contact but didn't know how, as they were very young and maybe a bit shy and total strangers to us, as we were to them...

(Can't link the photos I wanted to show [as link only so I wouldn't highjack the thread] to here, don't know why, maybe because my Flickr is set to "Private"?)


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## LaFoto (Jan 26, 2013)

*Oh, this was in Technical Challenge and Assignments? I moved it to the General Gallery.*


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## jake337 (Jan 26, 2013)

Rick58 said:


> This is COMPLETELY different. It's a religous belief for them. Their religion does not permit graven images. Even the little girls dolls can not have the likeness of a face




And......


I'm not Amish....




I also eat pork in front of muslims all the damn time.  Can't help we have to share a lunch room just like Amish share our public roads....


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## jake337 (Jan 26, 2013)

Rick58 said:


> LLD said:
> 
> 
> > ceejtank said:
> ...



I have the utmost respect for all people, but when in public all are fair game!


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## SCraig (Jan 26, 2013)

jake337 said:


> I have the utmost respect for all people, but when in public all are fair game!


I disagree.  How would you feel if you did something embarrassing and it was caught on camera and plastered all over the internet?  Would the "When in public all are fair game" rule still apply?

I don't shoot so-called "Street" photography for this very reason.  I'm of the opinion that everyone has the right to expect a modicum of privacy even in public.  I only shoot people photographs when they are in a setting where they would expect to be photographed.  For example in costume for an event.  I do not walk down the street shooting photographs of people simply because they have an interesting expression or because it is something embarrassing to them.  I treat people the way I would like to be treated, and that doesn't include somebody sticking a camera in my face simply because they feel they have a right to do so.

This shot was wrong.  The OP knew that the Amish do not wish to be photographed by his own admission yet he took it anyway and put it on a forum for everyone to see.  I personally feel that they have the right to their own beliefs, and I do not find this respectful of their way of life in any form.


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## Tee (Jan 26, 2013)

OP: you have a misleading title.  The image is really about the horse.  The boy can barely be seen.

And since everyone else is an expert on the Amish, I'll chime in with my own $.02 having lived a farm field away from an Amish community while growing up.  Yes, they like to be private.  Yes, they prefer not to be photographed.  However, It's one thing to invade their property or an Amish gathering to get a photograph but it's another thing if they are in a public setting.  There are many people who visit Amish country but do not know their customs and shouldn't be crucified for taking a picture of them if they happen to be blowing by in their totally bitchin buggy on a road that is used by all.


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## shefjr (Jan 26, 2013)

DBA said:


> LLD said:
> 
> 
> > You ever see the show Amish Mafia?
> ...



NO WAY!!!!!!!!!!!¡!!!!!!!!!!
if it's on tv it must be true! :lmao:


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## SCraig (Jan 26, 2013)

Tee said:


> ... There are many people who visit Amish country *but do not know their customs* and shouldn't be crucified for taking a picture of them if they happen to be blowing by in their totally bitchin buggy on a road that is used by all.



How about when they DO know their customs?  There is a significant difference in my opinion.


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## jake337 (Jan 26, 2013)

SCraig said:


> jake337 said:
> 
> 
> > I have the utmost respect for all people, but when in public all are fair game!
> ...




Yes it would.  It happens all the time, everywhere.


That being said, I may bring my camera down if an Amish person passes by, while giving them a head-nod of respect.  I also will not make images of the homeless.

 But I sure will not bash someone else for taking a picture of someone in public.


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## jake337 (Jan 26, 2013)

SCraig said:


> jake337 said:
> 
> 
> > I have the utmost respect for all people, but when in public all are fair game!
> ...




Also, you may have the opinion that everyone has the right to expect a modicum of privacy, even in public, but the truth of the matter is you and I don't have that right in public.


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## Designer (Jan 26, 2013)

LaFoto said:


> Oh my :shock:
> I didn't even KNOW you're not supposed to take their photo when I did.
> They never even expressed in body language or in any other manner that they did not want their photo taken. They eyed us very curiously all the while, listening in to us speaking German among each other, and I had the strong feeling they had a desire to establish contact but didn't know how, as they were very young and maybe a bit shy and total strangers to us, as we were to them...



I think it is a sign of changing times.  Photography, and everything else is so prevalent now that it is becoming more difficult for the Amish to avoid it all.  After generations of Old-Order Amish having been in photographs (accidentally or otherwise), the later generations have become more tolerant of "the English" and all our modern trappings.

As to wanting to communicate with you in German; it could be a combination of being shy and recognizing that their Deutsch may be less than perfect and comes with an American accent.


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## manaheim (Jan 26, 2013)

LLD said:


> I'm sure he won't see it ... so there you go!  I'm from that area near Lancaster and so do I.  I just don't think its as horrible as you guys apparently do.  They live in a modern world ~ they come into our world~  Have you ever taken a photo of a homeless person or an old person who didn't know you were shooting a photo.  I just don't see it like you do.






I was going to somewhat nicely tell you that your picture sucked, but frankly the level of suck in your attitude has really altered the scale of suck.

The picture is fantastic.  Art gallery material.  Congratulations.


To be honest, I can't exactly fault taking the picture based upon the whole "I'm a photographer, they're in public" thing... but ...

1. The OP didn't use this defense.
2. The OP is FROM THE AREA and therefore can't even claim ignorance.
3. The Amish are sort of unique and generally speaking my experience is that the American culture tries to be sensitive to that uniqueness in a manner that we have not been with other *ahem* cultures in our country.  I've often found it nice that we have done that, so seeing someone just flip it off like this is kinda appauling.

So, yeah... I can't argue that you had the right to take the picture, but yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh, what a sucky, uncaring, flippant attittude.


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## Wild.Bird (Jan 26, 2013)

Whoa!  Two days ago I joined what I thought was a nice friendly forum.  How could I be so wrong?  This thread is U-G-L-Y!!  I really hope it isn't the norm!  

The Amish way of life is so very different from our own and therefore interesting.  I clicked on the post because  the subject interests me.  If I wasn't interested, I would have never opened the post, nor would I have commented.  I would have moved on to something I like.  I have seen Amish boys and girls with a cell phone, taking pictures of each other.  When they were done, they hopped back into the buggy and went about their business.  I thought what they were doing was funny and they looked like they were having a blast.  

Although I am no expert in photography, I like the picture the OP posted.  I would like it better if the entire horse was shown, but since he was surprised and was taking pictures of something else, he got what he got.  I say better luck next time.  

Did I make a mistake joining this forum?  Should I be afraid of posting a picture that might be controversial to someone?   I certainly would not want to be chastised for doing so.  If this really isn't the friendly forum I thought it was, would someone be so kind as to let me know?


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## shefjr (Jan 26, 2013)

Maybe agree to disagree? Bygones be bygones and all that crap.  there is obviously no convincing either side in this situation.
or you could tell me to stfu. :lmao:


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## SCraig (Jan 26, 2013)

jake337 said:


> Also, you may have the opinion that everyone has the right to expect a modicum of privacy, even in public, but the truth of the matter is you and I don't have that right in public.


You are right, and I can't do anything about everyone, only myself.  That's why I tried to emphasize the fact that it was my personal opinion.  How anyone else conducts themselves is entirely up to them.  If I know for a fact that someone does not want to be photographed I will respect that, just as you said that you would.


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## texkam (Jan 26, 2013)

Does Google Maps publish Street View images of Amish areas?


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## DBA (Jan 26, 2013)

shefjr said:


> DBA said:
> 
> 
> > LLD said:
> ...


Sadly, people actually believe that filth.


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## rexbobcat (Jan 26, 2013)

texkam said:
			
		

> Does Google Maps publish Street View images of Amish areas?



I assume they typically don't because Google doesn't usually have a street view for rural areas.


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## Tee (Jan 26, 2013)

SCraig said:


> Tee said:
> 
> 
> > ... There are many people who visit Amish country *but do not know their customs* and shouldn't be crucified for taking a picture of them if they happen to be blowing by in their totally bitchin buggy on a road that is used by all.
> ...



Yes, you are correct.  To be honest, I completely missed the OP saying she knew the customs and had to go back and read the thread again.


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## slow231 (Jan 26, 2013)

what's the big surprise, the reason why there's more debate about taking shots of Amish than cc is because the shot is boring.  the framing is awkward and it's un-flattering/emphasizing to any subject (horse, boy or buggy).  the buggy is severely cropped, but there's a ton of dead space in front of the horse (who's legs are chopped), and the driver is badly framed in the windshield. the overall result is just flat out uninteresting. 

the question about taking shots of people who you know don't want their pictures taken is a far more interesting topic...  on one hand it _is_ rude if you take shots of someone you KNOW doesn't want you to (yes pavarazzi are rude), legal or not.  the attitude of "who cares it's a public place" reminds me of those kids in school who would walk around saying "it's a free country" after every annoying thing they did.  on the other hand, perhaps they don't really care, and they definitely benefit and capitalize on the mystique surrounding their culture, so in a way they probably do take the good with the bad.


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## The_Traveler (Jan 26, 2013)

Being totally disinterested in the subject of most of these comments, I will reply to the picture.

Badly, badly framed.
It concentrates on the horse. you've cut off both the horse's legs at the joint (generally a no-no) and the top of the buggy.
You need to know what you are looking at and want the viewer to concentrate on and then expose and frame around that.


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## sekhar (Jan 26, 2013)

I know you didn't have time to frame this right, but it just looks like a snapshot right now...could help with a crop IMO. The guy's expression is really interesting and could bring life/meaning to the image if you bring the focus (figuratively speaking) back to him. How about this crop that makes this about a man and his horse rather than about a carriage?


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## Derrel (Jan 26, 2013)

No offense meant, but somewhere there is a genuine *silk purse* that is growing angrier and angrier by the minute!!!!!!!!!!! Just sayin...


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## jake337 (Jan 26, 2013)

SCraig said:


> jake337 said:
> 
> 
> > Also, you may have the opinion that everyone has the right to expect a modicum of privacy, even in public, but the truth of the matter is you and I don't have that right in public.
> ...




Yeah it's kind of a touchy subject.  I wouldn't want to be photographed but I have more respect for the rights of all our citizens over my peronal opinion on the matter.

Next thing Police Officers will be demanding rights to privacy on the job, as a public servant.


It's kinda like celebraties wanting privacy in public.  It's not the photographers fault that people buy the magazines.  If no one bought the tabloids then there wouldn't be a market for it.


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## o hey tyler (Jan 26, 2013)

SCraig said:
			
		

> I disagree.  How would you feel if you did something embarrassing and it was caught on camera and plastered all over the internet?  Would the "When in public all are fair game" rule still apply?
> 
> I don't shoot so-called "Street" photography for this very reason.  I'm of the opinion that everyone has the right to expect a modicum of privacy even in public.  I only shoot people photographs when they are in a setting where they would expect to be photographed.  For example in costume for an event.  I do not walk down the street shooting photographs of people simply because they have an interesting expression or because it is something embarrassing to them.  I treat people the way I would like to be treated, and that doesn't include somebody sticking a camera in my face simply because they feel they have a right to do so.
> 
> This shot was wrong.  The OP knew that the Amish do not wish to be photographed by his own admission yet he took it anyway and put it on a forum for everyone to see.  I personally feel that they have the right to their own beliefs, and I do not find this respectful of their way of life in any form.



I didn't realize the Amish guy was doing something embarrassing. Seemed pretty mundane to me.


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## manaheim (Jan 26, 2013)

Wild.Bird said:
			
		

> Whoa!  Two days ago I joined what I thought was a nice friendly forum.  How could I be so wrong?  This thread is U-G-L-Y!!  I really hope it isn't the norm!
> 
> The Amish way of life is so very different from our own and therefore interesting.  I clicked on the post because  the subject interests me.  If I wasn't interested, I would have never opened the post, nor would I have commented.  I would have moved on to something I like.  I have seen Amish boys and girls with a cell phone, taking pictures of each other.  When they were done, they hopped back into the buggy and went about their business.  I thought what they were doing was funny and they looked like they were having a blast.
> 
> ...



Yes it's a horrible place and you should leave now and never come back.


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## SCraig (Jan 26, 2013)

jake337 said:


> Yeah it's kind of a touchy subject.  I wouldn't want to be photographed but I have more respect for the rights of all our citizens over my peronal opinion on the matter.
> 
> * Next thing Police Officers will be demanding rights to privacy on the job, as a public servant.*
> 
> ...



They already are in places.  I've heard reports from Europe (I can't remember which country, but it wasn't one of the usually paranoid countries like Russia) that police officers being photographed during the performance of their duties (i.e. making an arrest) have been known to confiscate cameras and arrest the photographer.  As I recall the photographers were released and the cameras returned, but they were detained for a while.  I think it was happening in England but it's been a couple of years and I could easily be wrong on that point.


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## SCraig (Jan 26, 2013)

o hey tyler said:


> I didn't realize the Amish guy was doing something embarrassing. Seemed pretty mundane to me.


I must have missed the part where I said that he was.


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## o hey tyler (Jan 26, 2013)

SCraig said:
			
		

> I must have missed the part where I said that he was.



Well you spoke as if he was doing something he should be ashamed of. Just sayin.


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## SCraig (Jan 26, 2013)

o hey tyler said:


> SCraig said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I never said that sentence structure was one of my strong points   Reading it again I can see where you got that.  My bad.


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## Parker219 (Jan 26, 2013)

Wild.Bird said:
			
		

> Did I make a mistake joining this forum? Should I be afraid of posting a picture that might be controversial to someone? I certainly would not want to be chastised for doing so. If this really isn't the friendly forum I thought it was, would someone be so kind as to let me know?




If I were to describe this forum, "friendly" would not be one of the top 5 words I would use. It might be in the top 142 words if that makes you feel any better! :salute:


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## Majeed Badizadegan (Jan 26, 2013)

Parker219 said:


> Wild.Bird said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



First 141 words or didn't happen


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## Wild.Bird (Jan 26, 2013)

manaheim said:


> Yes it's a horrible place and you should leave now and never come back.



Sorry.  You can't get rid of me that quickly!


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## Pallycow (Jan 26, 2013)

I read page one, then skimmed.  So if it's been said, oh well.

I will shoot anything that interests me, period.

Now, having said that, I will take into consideration a persons request.  Should a person approach me and say "blah blah and yadda yadda..please dont shoot me"  I will respect their wishes.  I will not simply not shoot something or someone because of a supposedly "known" belief system, created by man, interpreted by man, and screwed up constantly by man.

A person asks me not to, or I notice they are upset...I won't.  Otherwise, I shoot what I want.  It's my right to do so.  (taking out places it's not allowed..etc...etc...not even talking about that sort of thing)


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## LaFoto (Jan 26, 2013)

I think we help everyone along if we now close this thread. 
Thus both LLD and Wild.Bird might still get the impression that this is a friendly forum, after all! 
As other threads may be a lot friendlier.


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