# Advice looking to buy Nikon D3100 or get D90



## XSpiratone (Nov 4, 2010)

I have a Quantaray lens a macro zoom to 200mm that came off a N75 that I have put up on Ebay.  I was going to buy a D3000 body and put the lens on it.  When my wife heard that the D3100 has live view and movie she nixed that deal and demanded I get the D3100 and sell off my Canon powershot.  So now I see the D90 body for just under $800 and I don't know what more I would get over 20 percent more pixels.  I am not going to earn a living with this camera.  

The powershot would still work for me but it is a royal pita when it comes to taking close up shots.  the focus system works on some kind of contrast schema
and the manual focus over ride is the pits.. The $3100 with the stock lens is much more than I need to photograph the handcrafted pens and wood turnings I produce in fits of insanity.  

Is the D90 so much better?  Thanks in advance


----------



## Markw (Nov 4, 2010)

Personally, I would take the D90 over the D3100 anyday.  There is no question.  There are many things better about the D90, but mainly so that is has a built in motor so you do not have to use only AF-S lenses.  It is also built more solidly, and has various other good quirks that can all be found on Nikon's website if youd like to check it out.  Would you just mainly be using the camera for close-up work?  If so, youre going to have to get something different than that quantaray zoom.  Youre going to need something that gets down to at least 1:3 or the best is 1:1 macro ratio.  

Sorry if that overwhelmed you.  I am assuming you know the fundamentals of DSLRs and their corresponding lenses.  If not, ask.  Im sure many people, including myself, would be glad to help you out once you form clear-cut questions.

Is the D90 better than the D3100 for the price?  I would say *yes.*

Mark


----------



## KmH (Nov 4, 2010)

Markw said:


> Personally, I would take the D90 over the D3100 anyday. ..... It is also built more solidly,


Really? How so? Is it a better grade of plastic?


----------



## XSpiratone (Nov 4, 2010)

Mark W, Thanks for the reply.  I guess since my SLR days were back in before auto focus the idea of it is itself a PITA.  I would rather have the old split image which worked fine.  So I really don't care where the motor is as I may or may not want or need one.  As for the Quantaray it is labeled a Macro lens though I do not know how far it will rack out to focus down to.  I did see Nikon extension tubes on eBay for a song.  With the flat objective lens on the Quantaray it may do the trick.

Back to the built in motor,  if the lens is not a AF lens what does the motor do?
If I put on a non AF lens does it spin it up or something.  do you have any reference site you could recommend for me to go to?? I will head out to the Nikon pages as you recommended.

To KmH I say, here here.... I am with you at this point.  they are basically the same but for some specs.  I am sure the innards are alike.  The D3100 may be the same and dumbed down to have a price and line structure.


----------



## orb9220 (Nov 4, 2010)

The D3100 has no motor in body. So lenses have to AF-S (motor in lens) or case of third party like sigma will say HSM in the lens descriptor. The advantage of the D90 is lens motor in camera body. This means not only will AF-S (motor in lens) will work on the D90 but also older 1970's to present AF,AF-D,G lenses which many out there that can be great buys. And give you more used lens options.

But depends on your needs. If someone wants a dslr to occasionally take pics of family,vacations,events,etc.. Then by all means a D3100. If want to learn and expand into photography and have a camera you can grow into then the D90.

Other reason of D90 over D3100

Now AF and AF-D lenses will autofocus.
Bigger viewfinder with illuminated grid.
Dedicated controls and buttons for Focus mode AF-S AF-C,Also button for Single-Continuous-wireless remote selection. ISO,WB,DoF buttons Metering Pattern.
Top LCD for seeing all settings at a glance.
Two thumbwheels controls for quick changing aperture and shutter.
Dedicated button to see ISO setting in viewfinder.
CLS Flash commander mode for wireless controlling your flashes. The D3100 does not.
D90 has bracketing the D3100 does not.
True Battery grip with controls for vertical shots with extended battery use.

Just some off the top of my head. As I became frustrated with the entry level cams after about 9months requiring an upgrade. Due to many limitations like dedicated controls lack of features. No AF motor in body,etc..
.


----------



## XSpiratone (Nov 4, 2010)

orb922o, I really want to learn here.  can we joust as it were for me to learn a bit more?  Your info is very good and appreciated.  

Is the D90 the same size and weight as the D3100 because I was taken back at how light the D3000 was when I put my hands on it.  

Here goes, and again, with respect,  Why are auto focus lenses so important?  Are these cameras difficult to focus without a split Fresnel? I put down my film SLRs in the early 80's and now am getting back into it.  Back then if you could not focus your lens you just stayed home and watched TV.  My problem with my Canon that takes clear sharp pics is that when I want to get detail It goes nuts and actually goes out of focus.  Also every shot needs to be tweaked after the fact, I use a simple tool in Picasa to to add contrast and sometimes lighten the exposure.  It is like the Canon is always 1/2 stop under.

Can't I change the f stop with the D3100 and bracket myself?  Does it have the ability to center weight the exposure and then hold that setting and frame?  

A lot of the items you cite are display related.  I agree that settings and such are important but are they not available on the D3100 if you look through the viewer?  I don't know.  the Canon has more icons etc than you care to deal with.

CLS to control flashes.  Will a digital SLR handle a simple slave?  I guess I thought that the new stuff did not require you to get a flash meter. 

As you may see I am like walking into this from pre-auto focus camera knowledge.  Back in the old match needle days.  All the things you tell me about the D90 have me scratching my head.  Why do I need them?  not why don't I want them but Need them?  

Thanks in advance for any info that will move me up as it were.


----------



## orb9220 (Nov 5, 2010)

"Is the D90 the same size and weight as the D3100"

No as the D90 is larger and heavier.

Why are auto focus lenses so important?  Are these cameras difficult to focus without a split Fresnel? 

Well many don't have a decent or smooth focus throw of some of the classic Ai or Ais lenses. Many feel the newer AF-S lenses suck at manual focus due to it not being a high design consideration. And No none of the digital cams have split-screen focus screens. But many can have a Katz-Eye split screen installed for using older manual focus lenses. Tho Ai or Ais lens there is no metering. So you have to guess-i-mate exposure.

"Can't I change the f stop with the D3100 and bracket myself?  "

Yes as long as you don't move the camera between shots (Tripod anyone?) handheld would be problematic. Also seconds between shots the light may change,objects in motion have moved,etc...

"Does it have the ability to center weight the exposure and then hold that setting and frame?  "

Yes any of them do. I can choose AF-S single AF lock on focus spot and lock exposure then move camera to frame the shot.

"A lot of the items you cite are display related.  I agree that settings  and such are important but are they not available on the D3100 if you  look through the viewer?"

Much of the pertinent info is in the display. But as a general rule the consumer entry level have smaller viewfinder which for these old eyes a relief to move to a cam with bigger viewfinder making it easier to compose and Manual focus subject. Don't know the specs on D3100 vs. D90 you will have to look it up. I just know going from my entry D40 to D80 was a Big step in Bigger and Brighter viewfinder.

The other issue is do you want to bring the camera from your eye to dig in menu's to change a setting? As that frustrated me quite a bit. Now have dedicated controls and buttons memorized so I can change settings without the viewfinder leaving my eye. Which translate to not missing the action,event,subject,etc.. during a fast paced event. 

"CLS to control flashes.  Will a digital SLR handle a simple slave?  I  guess I thought that the new stuff did not require you to get a flash  meter. "

You don't need a flash meter. A SB-600 flash is a good start and fills most needs. But at some point if you are wanting to control 2 or 3 or more flashes wireless then you need a camera with CLS commander mode built in or a dedicated commander like a SU-800 or SB-900 flash mounted on hotshoe to control the other flashes. Or you go to manual optical or RF triggers which adds to the cost of just having commander in the first place. so comes down to personal choice. If in the future you get into more advanced flash then it's pay a tad more now or later with extra devices.

Like I mention above

"But depends on your needs. If someone wants a dslr to occasionally take  pics of family,vacations,events,etc.. Then by all means a D3100. If want  to learn and expand into photography and have a camera you can grow  into then the D90."

Now that is just my opinion and take what you can from it. And if not sure then start small with a D3100 and go from there. Best thing is to find another old fart photographer like me that has made the transition to digital to answer your questions and help you decide what route is best for you.

Sorry couldn't be more informative. But am not a pro or photographer myself.
.


----------



## XSpiratone (Nov 5, 2010)

Thanks Orb9220, Your info is very helpful.  I just have to think it through.  Like most things it is often the small things that clinch the deal.  A brighter viewfinder and my older eyes moves the D90 quite high.  The fact that the camera is a bit heavier will perhaps feel more comfortable.  Your comments make the specs relevant to actual use.   Thanks again.


----------



## Dao (Nov 5, 2010)

I believe all the new lens (I mean new design) that Nikon make is going to have a in lens focus motor.  Currently they all call AF-S.

If a third party lens companies such as Sigma, Tamron and Tokina have a new lens design for Nikon, I believe they are going to put a focus motor in the lens as well.  

So from going forward, missing focus motor in the camera body may not be that bad unless you have your mind set at buying those older design lenses.  i.e. the 50mm f/1.8D AF lens.   And yes, the older design lens are cheaper in cost  $1xx (f/1.8D) vs $4xx (f/1.4G).  But then again, you paid more for the wider aperture as well as faster AF speed.

If you use the D3100 body with the 50mm f/1.8D lens, the focus confirmation from the camera still work.  So when you turn the manual focus ring and the subject is in focus, the camera will let you know. (beeps or red light indicator in the viewfinder)  So it is not that bad.  Of course, it is still better if AF works.

So if you are planning to buy lenses that are AF-S from Nikon or compatible lenses from other lens manufacturers, with or without in-body focus motor may not be a big deal.

So think about what you are planing to shoot and find out what lenses you like to get now or in the future.  You may or may not need the in-body focus motor.

As far as D3100 vs D90 goes, of course I like D90 better.  But that is just a personal choice based on my preference towards size, weight, buttons top screen etc.

Or, just get the Canon T2i and forget about it! 


And yes, I use Canon  


P.S.  If you primary use the camera for macro works, AF may not required.
This macro photo was taken hand held with focus set to manual.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4016/5133984525_f2b949c168_z.jpg


----------



## PhotoXopher (Nov 5, 2010)

Having owned and used both the D90 and D3100 I'll say the basic info has been covered quite well.

Both are easy to use and capture wonderful images.

Things I actually noticed vs difference in specs:

D90
Top LCD is nice to have.
Dual command dials (nice having one for aperture and one for shutter speed).
Battery grip option.
Commander mode for wireless flash.

Big, but maybe not big enough - it's kind of a weird size, it's not small and it's not big. I almost needed the grip to make it feel right.
Has dedicated buttons, but they aren't easy to get used to like the ones on my D300s.

D3100
Small and fun to use.
Layout is simple and makes sense.
Less buttons, not necessarily a bad thing (see above).
Handy function button on the left (I set mine to ISO). This way I have 90% of what I need at my fingertips (ISO, Shutter Speed and Aperture).
My experience shows it has better IQ than the D90/D300s in a lot of circumstances.

You cannot lock the focal point, and the buttons to move it are right where my hand rests so it's never in the right place when I go to take a photograph. It almost became a habit to press the center button to center it.

All of my lenses are AF-S or HSM (Sigma's naming convention), so not having a focus motor wasn't a drawback for me. Also, my Nissin Di866 can act as a master flash, so as long as it's mounted on the camera I can do wireless flash - not an issue for me.

D3100 can be bought new for less or around the same as a D90 used, with that you get a factory warranty.

I'd have to say it's a toss up though, you just have to weigh your usage and what's important to you and most of all, go hold each one and see what feels better and makes more sense to use in your mind.


----------



## Vinny (Nov 5, 2010)

This is not a comparison between a 3100 and D90, just my observations on a D90.

I don't know if anyone addressed this but the D90 doesn't autofocus in movie mode. 

Being fairly new to a DSLR I would say that it is a little bit harder to get a good manual focus than with a prism/split screen of older film SLRs but it can be done. The D90 (and I would imagine all DSLRs) has an "in focus" indicator and the image does look in focus when you play around with the lens but there's nothing to reference other than the image looks in focus/out of focus. I was thinking to get the Katz Eye one day.

Live view is SLOW! It is not like a P&S digital camera where you look at the image on the screen and snap a photo - there is a delay.

I picked to D90 as it has the command wheels as mentioned and seemed closer to my Nikon FE than the lower Nikons. A plus if you buy the kit is the 18-105 lens - its a pretty nice lens and I believe the lower Nikons come with the 18-55, having the extra reach is a nice thing.


----------



## ironsidephoto (Nov 5, 2010)

D90. It's not just about megapixels. The D90 is a much better camera. The D7000 (the new replacement for the D90) is much better, but the D90 might be your best bet.


----------



## KmH (Nov 5, 2010)

Vinny said:


> This is not a comparison between a 3100 and D90, just my observations on a D90.
> 
> I don't know if anyone addressed this but the D90 doesn't autofocus in movie mode.


The D90 was the first dSLR offered that also had video.

A lot has changed in the 2 years since the D90 was first launched.


----------



## orb9220 (Nov 5, 2010)

Yep the D90 is not a video cam make. I played and see with once or twice. And seen some outstanding vids with music. But personally the video was a non-condition of purchase for me. If they had a model D90nv (non-video) that was $50 cheaper without the video would have jumped on it. And yes it's not ready yet for prime time being the first in an under $1000. Only can do so much with a smaller cam driving a focus motor and trying to update a 3" lcd screen needs bigger data-lines and cpu and raw power to drive that lcd to real time levels. Still can get some really nice vids from it due to the ability to use interchangeable lenses for that special DoF effect.

And soon for same price range will give full 1080 HD,stereo sound at 30fps with real time focus. As that is how the Tech Beast Rolls always just around the corner.
.


----------



## XSpiratone (Nov 5, 2010)

Well gentlemen you have all been very helpful.  I wanted to report back that I have ordered a D90 body from NewEgg.  Their special today only 15% off any Nikon or Canon clinched it.  The price came down to what he local Target rain check in my pocket for a D3100 with lens came to with tax.  So I will fit it out with my Quantaray and take back all my old gear from my daughter (if I can pry any of it loose) and get some Nikon T mounts off eBay and see if some of my old manual lenses will work on it.  Then I guess I will lurk on eBay for a nice used prime or midrange zoom.  Thanks all for your help.  I may return with meaty questions another day on another thread.


----------



## Markw (Nov 5, 2010)

Research and make sure some Nikon lenses will mount without harming the body.  I know some of them will break the mount on the camera.

Mark


----------



## XSpiratone (Nov 5, 2010)

Markw, thanks for the heads up.  That sounds like the kind of info a board like this or a good blog would accumulate as a list of go lenses or XX no gos.  Is there such data posted as a general database?  if so where?  could we start a sticky for such info?


----------



## orb9220 (Nov 5, 2010)

With the D90 will mount anything that is designated Ai or Ais manual lenses. It won't take pre-Ai which could damage the camera. 

AI,AI-S,E series
- mounts,no meter use as Full manual set aperture on lens and shutter on camera. And guessimate the exposure as no metering.

AI-P | AF AF-D | AF-G
- mounts and meters and AF

Lenses designated Nikon AF-S, Sigma HSM or Tamron Di2 with built in motor.

So as long as the lens was made after 1975 or so should be Ai or Ais. But verify as there are sites that shows you how to identify pre-Ai,Ai or Ais lenses.
.


----------



## XSpiratone (Nov 5, 2010)

I would like any sites that have info on how to identify older lenses.  From what you say I should pass on getting adapters that would take my old Spiratone and Accura lenses with their T mount and convert them to the old Nikon F mount bayonet mount.


----------



## Barefoot Intactivist (Dec 29, 2010)

Two more points worth mentioning:

** D90 has a much brighter pentaprism viewfinder vs a pentamirror viewfinder on the D3100. Much easier to manual focus on D90 -- somewhat ironic since D90's autofocus functions with AF-D lenses and D3100's does not

** D90 back LCD screen is much higher resolution, great for reviewing. Over time I got used to the D3100 screen and it's fine.

I had my D90 of two years stolen and replaced it with a D3100 (couldn't bare to re-purchase the same camera). I actually love the D3100  but definitely miss many of the D90's features.


----------



## djacobox372 (Dec 29, 2010)

If the TS plans on using manual focus all the time, I'd suggest a camera that will meter with the old AIS manual focus glass.  This would be a D200, D300, or D7000. 

AIS manual focus lenses are just as good optically as their autofocus cousins, yet cost about half as much and have a FAR superior feel to their manual focus mechanism. Many auto focus lenses have really tiny and loose/sensitive focus rings that make manual focus a pain. 

Keep in mind that crop-sensor cameras have smaller viewfinders and are a bit harder to manual focus then full-frame film bodies.


----------



## flea77 (Dec 29, 2010)

I am wondering what kind of Powershot was not working for taking shots of pens?

Allan


----------

