# OCF, Helo me improve



## ronlane (Jan 12, 2013)

I finally got the Photix Atlas II radio flash triggers today. I got them home and have been practicing with the set up and got a few shots but thought I would ask for help to get better. C&C.

Using 24-135mm at 85mm. Using a wireless shutter.

1.



IMG_7840 by Ron_Lane, on Flickr

2.



IMG_7834 by Ron_Lane, on Flickr


3.



IMG_7818 by Ron_Lane, on Flickr


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## Derrel (Jan 12, 2013)

Well...a bare flash casts fairly hard-edged light. It creates a pretty crisp-edged shadow. At close ranges, as in the self-portrait shot of you at the bottom, the rate of light fall-off can be exceptionally fast. See how the cheek closest to the camera is pretty bright...but the middle of the forehead area is properly exposed, and then the left side of the picture is almost black??? That is what happens when a light is moved very close to the subject; this is due to the Inverse Square Law...basically, when a light is moved in close, the degree of fall-off is astounding. When a light is moved farther away, the rate of fall-off becomes very moderate, and the lighting will be pretty much "even", across the width of a normal scene.

Anyway...the difficulty with OCF and speedlights is not being able to literally SEE what a particular light position/power/placement/set-up will be like--until after a picture has been made!!! So, it's a matter of trial and error. I think the best thing to do would be to get a small table lamp with a 75-watt bulb in it, and use the light that escapes out of the top of the lampshade as a *previewer. A sort of stand-in.

*(TPF'ers: Ron and I know one another off-line, a little bit. Ron is eager to learn, and can take criticism like a Major League Baseball Umpire.)

I think you want to avoid raking the light across the face as much as you did in all three of these...the angle of the light creates a pretty strong shadow, which is not all that flattering. Anyway...work with it, see what you can come up with. Maybe check out the Strobist web site for some tips on theory and technique, and do some of Hobby's strobist exercises. Do you have an umbrella and light stand available???


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## ronlane (Jan 12, 2013)

Thanks Derrel. I was playing with the light in the back ground being off and on. I'll figure it out one way or another, just have to keep trying.

I was defusing the flash with DIY (a piece of paper). I do not have an umbrella or a light stand at this time. I had it sitting on a table and pointing it at different angles. Should I try a reflector with the light turned away from the subject?


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## Derrel (Jan 12, 2013)

Well, you know, hard-edged light is not necessarily "bad". Sometimes, it is dramatic. TO really soften a flash, the light source needs to be large in relation to the size of the subject, and the distance. So...a piece of say paper that is 8 x 11 inches doesn't soften the flash very much, but bouncing the flash off of the wall, or the ceiling creates a HUGE light source, that puts out pretty soft light.

The thing is...indoors, with slow shutter speeds, like say 1/8 second at f/5.6, the flash can be used as fill light and the photos are a mixture of ambient light + flash light. When the shutter speeds are faster, like say 1/180 second or so, then the flash becomes the sole light source, and the pics are "*flash-as-main light*" or "all-flash". So...not sure what you want to do.

I would suggest trying the flash at angles of like 20 to 45 degrees from faces, to start with, and see how that looks. Try bouncing the flash into the wall/ceiling juncture, and have the kids fairly close to that, and see whatcha can get. Use the refrigerator as a reflector for the flash. Try some ceiling bounce + slow shutter speeds. There are sooooooooo many ways to use flash, we cannot possibly cover all of 'em here in anything less than a book!


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## cgipson1 (Jan 13, 2013)

Ron.. I have a couple of extra 33" shoot though's that I don't use anymore.. PM me an address, and I will send them to you..... if you want them.


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## ronlane (Jan 13, 2013)

I remembered that my monopod had an attachment of a tripod and would hold my flash. So I used that and then I got out my reflector and tried again. These are just the flash for light.

1. This one is just the flash moved closer to 45 degrees from face and camera.




IMG_7845 by Ron_Lane, on Flickr

2. This one I used the reflector under my face to fill in from below with the flash in the same place.




IMG_7864 by Ron_Lane, on Flickr

3. This one is bouncing the flash off the reflector.




IMG_7869 by Ron_Lane, on Flickr

This is very interesting. I got my drive back tonight.

These three aren't bad to me but I like them in reverse order (3,2,1).  Any improvement?


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## ronlane (Jan 13, 2013)

Thanks Charlie, I sent you the message.


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## cgipson1 (Jan 13, 2013)

ronlane said:


> Thanks Charlie, I sent you the message.



I will get them out!


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## KmH (Jan 13, 2013)

In post #6 you have used mixed lighting - incandescent/tungsten and flash.

Those parts of your face not lit by the flash are orange. 

A digital camera can only cope with a single light color temperature in each image.
So with 2 mixed lighting sources, to avoid light source color temperature issues we gel one of the light sources.

An orange color cast is indicative of a digital camera's white balance being set to daylight but using an incandescent/tungsten light source. 
Most flash units produce light that has a color temperature very close to daylight (5500°K or so).

If you put a CTO gel on the flash unit, it will produce light close to the same color temperature as the incandescent light source. You then set the camera white balance to incandescent/tungsten.
The light in your photos will then lose the orangeish color cast.


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## ronlane (Jan 13, 2013)

Thank you Keith. Are you talking about below the right eye? I am not totally understanding the color change you are referring to. On those last 3 images, I don't believe that I had any light but the flash. The desk lamp in the background of 1-3 was turned off on that set. The only other light coming in the room was from a bathroom that was was not shining on me at all.

It could be something that I did in PP that changed it. Would it help if I cooled it down?


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## ronlane (Jan 13, 2013)

Keith, you don't need to answer that, I see it now after looking.  Here is the edited version that I cooled down to fix it. Is this better? I needed to cool that entire set of pictures down and it helped I believe.




IMG_7869 edited by Ron_Lane, on Flickr


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## Geaux (Jan 13, 2013)

too blue


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## ronlane (Jan 14, 2013)

Thanks Geaux.  Happy meduim?




IMG_7869 by Ron_Lane, on Flickr


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## Derrel (Jan 14, 2013)

This still looks a bit too ruddy (reddish/pinkish) to me.

Kundalini just posted a nifty link to The Rangefinder magazine's on-line January article about the one-light portrait. It has several really GOOD illustrations about how to use one flash unit for portraiture. I am referring to the article that begins on page 70.

Rangefinder - January 2013


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## ronlane (Jan 14, 2013)

Thanks Derrel, I will read that article today. It seems that there is a REALLY fine line on this photo of being too red and too blue. It's driving me crazy.


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## Geaux (Jan 14, 2013)

What program are you using to edit?

Have you tried auto white balance setting to see what it does?


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## ronlane (Jan 14, 2013)

Geaux said:


> What program are you using to edit?
> 
> Have you tried auto white balance setting to see what it does?



Yes, I am using LR4 and it makes it VERY warm. I kinda got that one where I'm okay with it but took some more tonight with the only light in the room was the speedlight. I'll get them processed and post a couple up for C&C.

Thank you for the help.


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## ronlane (Jan 14, 2013)

Okay take two. These were taken with one speedlight bounced off a reflector and another reflector on the other side for fill. Improvements?

1. My wife, posing after getting her hair cut and colored today.




IMG_7932 by Ron_Lane, on Flickr

2. Daddies girl, she loves to be my model. (Most of the time.)




IMG_7929 by Ron_Lane, on Flickr

3. The boy, practically have to tie him down with duck tape.




IMG_7938 by Ron_Lane, on Flickr

4. Me




IMG_7926 by Ron_Lane, on Flickr


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## cgipson1 (Jan 14, 2013)

Ron..

how big is the reflector? How far away is the reflector from the subject. How far is the flash from the reflector?


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## ronlane (Jan 14, 2013)

cgipson1 said:
			
		

> Ron..
> 
> how big is the reflector? How far away is the reflector from the subject. How far is the flash from the reflector?



They are makeshift about 2x3. Less than 4 feet from the subject left with the light about a foot away.  The other reflector is about a foot from subject right side.


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## cgipson1 (Jan 14, 2013)

try moving the flash out from the reflector to about 24" or so.. maybe even use a diffuser on the flash (one of the pop on's, or the pull out WA diffuser if it has one). Need to soften that light up....


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## ronlane (Jan 14, 2013)

cgipson1 said:
			
		

> try moving the flash out from the reflector to about 24" or so.. maybe even use a diffuser on the flash (one of the pop on's, or the pull out WA diffuser if it has one). Need to soften that light up....



Thanks Charlie, I will try that very soon. I did not have the pull out on it.


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## cgipson1 (Jan 14, 2013)

ronlane said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You are just getting some hard reflection of the light...  cut that down, and it will make a difference.


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## ronlane (Jan 14, 2013)

cgipson1 said:
			
		

> You are just getting some hard reflection of the light...  cut that down, and it will make a difference.



Yes sir, I can do that. They are getting better, a step in the right direction.


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## ronlane (Jan 15, 2013)

Here are two from tonight. Please forgive me, this is the only model that will sit still long enough for me to practice.

1. flash diffuser and DIY diffuser bounced off the reflector with reflector on opposite side.




IMG_7988 by Ron_Lane, on Flickr

2. diffuser (DIY) bounced off the reflector with a reflector on the opposite side.




IMG_7979 by Ron_Lane, on Flickr


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## cgipson1 (Jan 15, 2013)

better but still not soft light.. lol! But soon.. right?


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## ronlane (Jan 15, 2013)

Very soon. :hail: Question for you Charlie. These are with 1/4 and 1/8 power on the flash. Would it help to stop it down to 1/16 or 1/32 with both diffusers on? That makes it dark but I can either bump the ISO or go +2 stops in LR4 in post.


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## cgipson1 (Jan 15, 2013)

ronlane said:


> Very soon. :hail: Question for you Charlie. These are with 1/4 and 1/8 power on the flash. Would it help to stop it down to 1/16 or 1/32 with both diffusers on? That makes it dark but I can either bump the ISO or go +2 stops in LR4 in post.



try covering the reflector you are hitting with flash, with white paper towels, or even a white bath towel... see what happens


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## ronlane (Jan 15, 2013)

I tried both methods.

1. Turn down the power to 1/8 or 1/16.




IMG_7999 by Ron_Lane, on Flickr

2. Put the paper towels over the reflector.




IMG_8008 by Ron_Lane, on Flickr


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## cgipson1 (Jan 15, 2013)

Wow.. much better!


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## cgipson1 (Jan 15, 2013)

You said your reflector was 2'x3'? Not seeing that in your eyes. Catchlight is tiny.. you probably have it too far away... something that big should be very noticeable... try it at 2 feet, 3 feet and 4 feet.


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## ronlane (Jan 15, 2013)

I notice that too, that the catch light was going away. Other than that, is this what I should be looking for? I did move the light further way like you suggested yesterday.


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## cgipson1 (Jan 15, 2013)

ronlane said:


> I notice that too, that the catch light was going away. Other than that, is this what I should be looking for? I did move the light further way like you suggested yesterday.



Move the light about 18-24" from the reflector but keep the reflector as close as you can and still keep the flash out of the shot.


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## ronlane (Jan 15, 2013)

Charlie, I will do that. I thought that I would show you my makeshift set up.




IMG_8025 by Ron_Lane, on Flickr

Also, here is one with the reflector taken out and just bounce the light off the wall.




IMG_8021 by Ron_Lane, on Flickr


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## Robin_Usagani (Jan 15, 2013)

Why would you use a reflector when you have a big ass white wall there.


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## Robin_Usagani (Jan 15, 2013)

Another thing i notice, your flash head is still emitting direct light with whatever you put in front of the flash.  If you dont want hard light, you want most light to be bounced.  Position the head toward the bounced area 100% and make sure you have no direct light from the flash to the subject.


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## ronlane (Jan 15, 2013)

Good question Robin. I have no real answer other than trying to get light to the fill reflector on the other side of my face.


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## Robin_Usagani (Jan 15, 2013)

my bad.. i didnt read it carefully.  So you did shoot it bounced off the wall.


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## ronlane (Jan 15, 2013)

Robin_Usagani said:


> my bad.. i didnt read it carefully.  So you did shoot it bounced off the wall.



Yes Sir, that last picture of me with the set up was bounced off the wall.

No need for the my bad, I appreciate the questions. If a photographer is asking me about things that I should have been thinking and I can answer, then I am on the right track. If I can't answer it, then I can ask for more explanation and learn from it. Either way, I'm getting better at this wonder hobby.


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## ronlane (Jan 16, 2013)

I came home today to a package that made me really happy. Inside was a couple of white umbrellas for my OCF. I was happy, happy, happy to say the least. So I set up really quickly and took a few portraits before I had to leave. Canon T3i, 24-135mm kits lens set at 53mm (with crop makes it 85mm) f5.6 1/100 shutter speed, sunpak flash with photix flash triggers.

1. I bounced the flash off the wall, the umbrella was between me and the wall. I left the reflector in front of my face to help fill a little bit.




IMG_8036 by Ron_Lane, on Flickr

2. Flash facing me shot through the umbrella.




IMG_8029 by Ron_Lane, on Flickr

Thank you Charlie for EVERYTHING and thanks to Derrel and Robin for the help. I am starting to see the difference in an okay shot and a good portrait.


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## ronlane (Jan 17, 2013)

Are these last two too dark? I can change that by bumping the ISO for the ambient light, correct?


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## Derrel (Jan 17, 2013)

Flash needs to be elevated a little bit higher....see the shadow your nose is casting, and the placement of the catchlights in the eyeballs??? Your nose's shadow is going upward, and touching the other eyeball...that's not a good look. You want that shadow to drop at a downward angle. Elevating the umbrella will help get that nose shadow going down-and-to-the-side AND will position the cacthlight higher in the eyeball, more near the top of the eyeball, and not so much at the "waterline" (lol). The last two with the light coming from a low angle give you a bit of a sinister look...which would actually be VERY GOOD if you were dressed in say, a Halloween costume, or were playing a villain or criminal in a play, or what have you.

In the first shot, you can literally SEE that the face is lighted by a large light source....see the BIG broad areas of the face lighted up, and with a very,very faint white sheen (specularity) to the skin across a large part of the entire facial structure? And see the, relatively, open shadows on the shirt and the shirt front? You are being illuminated by a LARGE light source, and there are very subtle clues that show this. The reflector fill also shows; look at the shadowed side of the head, and the shadow-side's ear--clearly, there is FILL light in action!!!

On shot #2, the shadows in the shirt,m and the shirt's front show "an umbrella" light setup. See how much more "shadowy" the lighting is? See the strong, clear nose shadow? This is a sort of Rembrandt-lighting type, if we want to try and pigeonhole it into a traditional "type" of lighting setup style. Again, the light is too low to make you look your best...

Does this help? I think the thing to note about BOUNCING light off of large poster board or walls is how it tends to make the face look "bright"...it adds, basically, a WHITE SHEEN, a shine, to the skin. It depends on if the subject has oily skin, or makeup on, or eyeglasses, or not; what is going on is that the light source itself, ie, the wall with the flash blasting it, is a rather "hot" source, and it creates a very subtle degree of specular reflection, and a large area of what is called "*diffuse highlight*", on the skin and other things. Depending on a few things, this look can be subtle, as it is here with just a speedlight, OR with a powerful flash unit, like say a 400 Watt-second to 1,600 Watt-second studio flash head, the effect can be that of a person being lighted up by a literal "*wall of light*". A great example of the wall of light look of bounced flash is in The Rangefinder magazine's January, 2013 on-line issue, beginning on page 70. Look at the "softlight Bounced" illustration of the woman. A Norman 2,000 W-S head bounced off of a 4x8 foamcore board, which is like a white wall.

Rangefinder - January 2013

0072_whbywo_fg.png


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## ronlane (Jan 17, 2013)

Yes this does help. I see the sheen that you are talking about in most of these photos. I was able to use LR4 to take most of it out but in a few cases, that caused dark photos. I thought that these were too dark after I stopped and looked at them. I will take more time with set up and changing the angles of my umbrella and light.

Thank you for the explanations and the patience.


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## ronlane (Jan 17, 2013)

Day 5, the question is, do you see improvement? Lighting today is up about 8 feet and just shot through the umbrella with it on 1/4th power. There is 1 headshot and 3 portraits at different ISO's.

1) 85mm at f5.6, 1/40th, 400 ISO




IMG_8057 by Ron_Lane, on Flickr

2) 85mm at f5.6, 1/80th, 200 ISO




IMG_8062 by Ron_Lane, on Flickr

3) 85mm at f5.6, 1/100th, 800 ISO




IMG_8073 by Ron_Lane, on Flickr

4) 85mm at f5.6, 1/100th, 400 ISO




IMG_8076 by Ron_Lane, on Flickr


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## Derrel (Jan 17, 2013)

Far,far better!!!! 3 out of these latest four are decent-to-good. #'s 3 and #4 actually have decent lighting. The dude in em looks rugged and manly, even in a pink shirt!!!! The lighting on your face is actually *decent!!* The lighting pattern you set up with this light placement actually creates  some visual "interest", and yes, the catchlight placement and the shadow placement is fine. A big,big improvement over yesterday. And keep in mind, self-portraiture is much more-challenging than shooting pics of another person!!!!


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## cgipson1 (Jan 17, 2013)

Spam reported.....     the text above was stolen from post #7   QUOTE=ronlane;2833765]Thanks Charlie, I sent you the message.[/QUOTE]  There are 8 similar posts on the forum... probably a bot doing a spam lead in!


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## ronlane (Jan 17, 2013)

cgipson1 said:
			
		

> Spam reported.....     the text above was stolen from post #7   QUOTE=ronlane;2833765]Thanks Charlie, I sent you the message.


  There are 8 similar posts on the forum... probably a bot doing a spam lead in![/QUOTE]

I was wondering why Donald was sending you one too.


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## ronlane (Jan 17, 2013)

Derrel said:
			
		

> Far,far better!!!! 3 out of these latest four are decent-to-good. #'s 3 and #4 actually have decent lighting. The dude in em looks rugged and manly, even in a pink shirt!!!! The lighting on your face is actually decent!! The lighting pattern you set up with this light placement actually creates  some visual "interest", and yes, the catchlight placement and the shadow placement is fine. A big,big improvement over yesterday. And keep in mind, self-portraiture is much more-challenging than shooting pics of another person!!!!



Decent lighting, do they need more or less? Move it up or down? Move me and or camera?  I think I like the 85mm length better for me


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## cgipson1 (Jan 17, 2013)

ronlane said:


> cgipson1 said:
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Dumb spammers! AAaarrrggghhhh!  I wish I could send them all to the salt mines! lol!


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## ronlane (Jan 17, 2013)

cgipson1 said:
			
		

> Dumb spammers! AAaarrrggghhhh!  I wish I could send them all to the salt mines! lol!



I hear ya. Now back to regularly scheduled programming. Help with the lighting. Same question as Derrel.


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## ronlane (Jan 17, 2013)

Okay, one more try tonight. I lowered the shutter speed on these. One with back light and one without. I was afraid of mixing the lights but I think this one worked good, what do you think?

1.




IMG_8087 by Ron_Lane, on Flickr

2.




IMG_8089 by Ron_Lane, on Flickr


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## Geaux (Jan 17, 2013)

What I would do is bounce your flash of the wall, put your reflector on opposite side of you for fill.


The way I learned was to put it at f11 1/160 and adjust your class accordingly. Then play with settings to see what you get.


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## Geaux (Jan 17, 2013)

What I would do is bounce your flash of the wall, put your reflector on opposite side of you for fill.


The way I learned was to put it at f11 1/160 and adjust your class accordingly. Then play with settings to see what you get.


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## Geaux (Jan 17, 2013)

Or bounce flash off ceiling and use reflector under and in front for bottom fill.


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## ronlane (Jan 18, 2013)

Thank you for the suggestions Geaux.


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## cgipson1 (Jan 18, 2013)

Ron.. do you have stands yet? You said you were bouncing flash off a wall, and into the umbrella, which was between you and the wall? Just trying to use it as a diffuser or something?


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## ronlane (Jan 18, 2013)

I used a DIY stand. (My Monopod has a tripod stand in it. So I put the flash on it and stood it up fully extended and shot it through without bouncing it. I set that on top of the dresser that is there to get the light about 8 feet in the air. I am going this weekend to look at stands and get one that will work. On the photos in the pink and camo, I did not bounce the light it was straight through the unbrella at 1/4th power.


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## kundalini (Jan 18, 2013)

I don't have time today to read the entire thread and study your photos because of my stupid work, but I thought I'd throw this out to you.  It was a response to another thread about lighting.  Hopefully it might help shed some light on the subject of one light portraiture.  All puns are intentional.

*http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/lighting-hardware/313171-boudoir-lighting.html#post2833230*


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## ronlane (Jan 18, 2013)

Thanks Kundalini, I have read through that thread. I have been getting the same advice and am trying them all to achieve the results I want and improve.


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## cgipson1 (Jan 18, 2013)

How far is the flash from the umbrella? Is the flashhead  zoomed out? How far away is the umbrella from you?  Tell you what, I still have one of those umbrellas that I sent you.. I will set it up and play when I have some time... see what works.

Try taking a shot of the umbrella from the the subject side. See if you have even lighting on it... or obvious hot spots....


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## cgipson1 (Jan 18, 2013)

Ok.. I setup a quickie shoot with one 33" shoot through identical to the ones I sent you. I Kept the umbrella about 24" from the subject, and shot three ways. Basically head on, three quarters and sidelit. I used a large reflector subject right. I have included diagrams of the setup on the actual images... to show you how I had it setup. 

Just ignore the ugly subject!


  



This is a shot to show you how I had the umbrella setup on the stand... as far from the flash as possible. I had the WA diffuser flipped down on the flash to help cover the entire umbrella. These umbrellas can put out pretty soft light, and I just don't understand where the hotspots you were getting on your self portrait were coming from.


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## kundalini (Jan 18, 2013)

cgipson1 said:


> ...... and I just don't understand where the hotspots you were getting on your self portrait were coming from.


Likely due to the flash head being set directly at the subject.  

Learn to "Feather" your light, young Grasshopper.


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## ronlane (Jan 18, 2013)

cgipson1 said:


> How far is the flash from the umbrella? Is the flashhead  zoomed out? How far away is the umbrella from you?  Tell you what, I still have one of those umbrellas that I sent you.. I will set it up and play when I have some time... see what works.
> 
> Try taking a shot of the umbrella from the the subject side. See if you have even lighting on it... or obvious hot spots....



Flash was about 12 inches from the umbrella. Not sure about the zoom on the flashhead, but I have the flash difuser and a cap on it. I will move it in and out to see the differences.

Looking at your setups, I have the flash WAY too close to the umbrella.

Those pictures helped a lot.

One last question, the one at 1/8th power is the one that is what I'm looking for..


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## cgipson1 (Jan 18, 2013)

ronlane said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> > How far is the flash from the umbrella? Is the flashhead  zoomed out? How far away is the umbrella from you?  Tell you what, I still have one of those umbrellas that I sent you.. I will set it up and play when I have some time... see what works.
> ...



Yes, that exposure basically... but my 1/8 power is going to be different than your 1/8 power! I thought that might be the issue... you were hotspotting the umbrellas


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## cgipson1 (Jan 18, 2013)

kundalini said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> > ...... and I just don't understand where the hotspots you were getting on your self portrait were coming from.
> ...



He was supposed to have a umbrella between him and the flash...  but it didn't look like it in the shots he was taking. That was my concern....


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## kundalini (Jan 18, 2013)

cgipson1 said:


> kundalini said:
> 
> 
> > cgipson1 said:
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Okay, but feathering the light will most assuredly alleviate the hotspots, given the output is not set too high. If you have a shoot-through brolly 18" away from the subject AND have the flash head pointing to the broad side of the face, you are still likely to get those hotspots. Adjusting the direction of the flash head to cross in front of the subject, you will get a much softer light. I rarely have the Main light pointed directly at the subject. YMMV


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## cgipson1 (Jan 18, 2013)

kundalini said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> > kundalini said:
> ...



yes.. feathering works very well.. I agree! But that isn't really what we were working on.. not yet anyway! I am sure Ron appreciates the tip... as do I!


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## nycphotography (Jan 18, 2013)

cgipson1 said:


> * This is a shot to show you how I had the umbrella setup on the stand... as far from the flash as possible.* I had the WA diffuser flipped down on the flash to help cover the entire umbrella. These umbrellas can put out pretty soft light, and I just don't understand where the hotspots you were getting on your self portrait were coming from.



I think the not so obvious tip of the day here is that it matters how far the flash is from the umbrella.

I this case, "As far as possible" with the flash zoomed to "as wide as possible" so the flash is wide before it hits the umbrella, at which point it gets diffused.

The primary difference is the "size" and "consistency" of soft light source.  With the flash near the diffuser, you get diffused light, but it is still from a small light source.  With the flash far away, the flash spreads to hit a larger area of the umbrella, so you get an "even" light source from the full width of the umbrella.


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## cgipson1 (Jan 18, 2013)

nycphotography said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> > * This is a shot to show you how I had the umbrella setup on the stand... as far from the flash as possible.* I had the WA diffuser flipped down on the flash to help cover the entire umbrella. These umbrellas can put out pretty soft light, and I just don't understand where the hotspots you were getting on your self portrait were coming from.
> ...



THAT was my point.. although I did not state it so nicely!


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## ronlane (Jan 18, 2013)

Wow, I go out to eat and come back to a whole new level of understanding. I'll be back shortly after setting this up again.


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## ronlane (Jan 18, 2013)

I finally got in there to set up light Charlie diagrammed out. I have the light as far from the umbrella as I can and the umbrella about as close as I can get to me. Here are the results of a couple of different ISO's and shutterspeeds.

1. 1/100 at f7.1, 85mm and 800 ISO.




IMG_8140 by Ron_Lane, on Flickr

2. 1/15 at f7.1, 85mm and 400 ISO.




IMG_8138 by Ron_Lane, on Flickr

Still have a little bit of a hot spot on the left cheek closest to the light.


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## Robin_Usagani (Jan 18, 2013)




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## nycphotography (Jan 18, 2013)

f7 @800 iso?  I still see a LOT of shadow.

How far is the flash umbrella from you?

Try turning down the power and moving it closer.  Maybe four stops lower on power!  And 1/4 the distance away.  And 400 iso.

reason:  the closer a soft light is, the softer it will be. (has to do with the crossing angles from both sides of the light to both sides of the subject).

A farther a soft light is from the subject, the harder it gets.


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## nycphotography (Jan 18, 2013)

Robin_Usagani said:


>



So that's how he got those damn umbrellas ;-)


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## ronlane (Jan 18, 2013)

LOL, Robin. The only thing Charlie is guilty of is being a nice guy. But that is funny.


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## Geaux (Jan 18, 2013)

Why is your iso at 800?  When I shoot strobist type stuff, I try to keep my iso as low as possible.  

I use my aperture and/or flash power to control my flash only


If I'm satisfied with my dof, then I adjust my flash accordingly
If I have dof to spare, I'll leave my flash at whatever power and raise my f/ (raise = lower...f/11 to f/8 or something like that)


Did you try my suggestion f/11 and 1/160th? (iso 100, 200 tops)



Edit: I figure you already know this, but the basics behind why/how a flash does what it does in a picture.  

Shutter strictly controls ambient light (the light in your room, pre shutter/flash)
 Aperture/flash power control how much your subject is lighted by your flash.

Want to show some background color...longer shutter and whatever flash power/aperture to get you lighted and dof satisfactory.
Want a black background...shorter shutter, higher flash power, f/14'ish


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## Robin_Usagani (Jan 18, 2013)

ronlane said:


> LOL, Robin. The only thing Charlie is guilty of is being a nice guy. But that is funny.



I dont see a nice guy on that picture.  He wasnt smiling.  He is ready to beat someone up.


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## cgipson1 (Jan 18, 2013)

Robin_Usagani said:


>



Loni says"Good Job, Robin!"  lol!


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## ronlane (Jan 18, 2013)

I'd be surprised if he was the only one with this thread and all my questions and SLOW progress (or so it seems to me.).


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## cgipson1 (Jan 18, 2013)

Ron.. based on the light in your photo... it looks like the camera is slightly to your right? and the umbrella is well to your left? Try facing the camera.... dead on. Put the umbrella right next to it.. almost touching the lens. Have the tip of the umbrella about 24" from you... Get that reflector no more than 6" away from your right shoulder...

try that.. adjust the light, shoot again... repeat, until  you get the exposure you are looking for. You are getting too much light on one side (left) and not enough on the right.


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## cgipson1 (Jan 18, 2013)

Robin_Usagani said:


> ronlane said:
> 
> 
> > LOL, Robin. The only thing Charlie is guilty of is being a nice guy. But that is funny.
> ...




nah... I am about to sneeze.. trying to hold it! REALLY! lol!


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## Robin_Usagani (Jan 18, 2013)




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## cgipson1 (Jan 18, 2013)

LONI beat the hell out of me, didn't she?  

Robin.. she is laughing her A$$ off... really! lol!


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## ronlane (Jan 18, 2013)

Charlie, here is the changes that you suggested. I had to change to 50mm from 85mm  because I moved the camera closer, but I see the difference.

1. 1/125, f4.5, 50mm, 100 ISO, Flash at 1/4th power. Camer moved to touching the umbrella and me still about 2-2.5 feet from umbrella.




IMG_8174 by Ron_Lane, on Flickr

Still a little hot in spots?


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## cgipson1 (Jan 19, 2013)

Definitely better... so play with it, and have fun! looks like you still need to get that reflector closer, or get a better reflector.

My reflector is huge.. and silver, so it really bounces light (really helps)... as you can see below:


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## nycphotography (Jan 19, 2013)

Notice in Charlies picture you can clearly see TWO catchlights in his eyes?  In yours only the strobe.

You reflector is not reflecting.

So what are you using and why is it not working?


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## ronlane (Jan 19, 2013)

Thanks Charlie, I will keep playing with it. I am having fun and having some break through tonight.

What lens and focal length are you using in that picture to get most of your upper body?

If you move the camera back a couple of feet, does that effect the lighting?


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## ronlane (Jan 19, 2013)

nycphotography said:


> Notice in Charlies picture you can clearly see TWO catchlights in his eyes?  In yours only the strobe.
> 
> You reflector is not reflecting.
> 
> So what are you using and why is it not working?



I'm using a foldable car windshield reflector that is more grey than silver and reflective.


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## Robin_Usagani (Jan 19, 2013)

I actually like 1 catch light better.  It is really up to you what you are trying to do.  An umbrella will spread the light everywhere.  It is not really directional.  Just put the umbrella close to your face should be good.  What is not appealing on your shot is the background.  My sample has really shallow DOF.  Did that on purpose just so my skin looks as soft as a baby's butt.


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## ronlane (Jan 19, 2013)

One more question. If I raise the umbrella up and put the camera under it so that the light covers both side of the face, do I have it softened enough to do that?


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## cgipson1 (Jan 19, 2013)

ronlane said:


> Thanks Charlie, I will keep playing with it. I am having fun and having some break through tonight.
> 
> What lens and focal length are you using in that picture to get most of your upper body?
> 
> If you move the camera back a couple of feet, does that effect the lighting?



Moving the camera does not affect the lighting.. as long as you can't see the umbrella in the lens. I was using my 24-70 at around 50mm for these. Then I cropped as needed.


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## nycphotography (Jan 19, 2013)

ronlane said:


> nycphotography said:
> 
> 
> > Notice in Charlies picture you can clearly see TWO catchlights in his eyes?  In yours only the strobe.
> ...



Tape some bright white copier paper to it and try again.

If that doesn't do the trick, try some aluminum foil on it, shiny side up, and try again.

But that said, my favorite reflectors are the spring form mylar windshield screens from walmart (like $5 for two).  They twist/fold and stuff in the outer pocket of my backpack.  kinda like these: Basix Magic Shade Super Jumbo Sunshade (Styles May Vary) : Amazon.com : Automotive but shiny

Robin: Not saying two catchlights is better than one aesthetically... just that if he's trying to use a reflector, it's not working.


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## cgipson1 (Jan 19, 2013)

ronlane said:


> nycphotography said:
> 
> 
> > Notice in Charlies picture you can clearly see TWO catchlights in his eyes?  In yours only the strobe.
> ...



so cover it with foil.. shiny side out... lol! That explains part of this.. your reflector is acting more like a flag, than a reflector! No wonder your right side is so dark!


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## Robin_Usagani (Jan 19, 2013)

if you put the umbrella directly above your camera, then the catchlight will be right on the top of your pupil or retina.  If that's the look you want, try it.  There is no right or wrong.  It is all up to you what you are trying to do.  I have been experimenting as well.  I am more interested with the shape of the catchlight.  I put my sofbox on the left and reflector at the bottom.  Next time I will probably put another reflector on the right to create a triangle look.


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## ronlane (Jan 19, 2013)

Thanks Robin, I will play with it more later today, after we all get up.


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## Robin_Usagani (Jan 19, 2013)

for example, look at Martin Schoeller's work.  Some people may say he uses the wrong lens (too wide so the face is shaped funny), light it wrong because the eyes look like an alien, DOF too thin, etc....  but many people find it interesting.  No right or wrong.  Just experiment and try to accomplish what YOU want to do.

https://www.google.com/search?q=mar...2A2QWHiYGwCA&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAA&biw=1920&bih=955


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## ronlane (Jan 19, 2013)

Today I set up in a new location. (After getting a Interfit Studio Accessories kit. Light stand, arm stand and 5 in 1 Reflector.  These were shoot through umbrella camera right about 2-3 feet from subject and using the reflector on the right for fill. 1/4 or 1/8 power on the flash.

1. This one is SOC. I didn't do anything in LR4.




IMG_8267 by Ron_Lane, on Flickr

2. Begged for another model today. And promised to process it before posting.




IMG_8258 by Ron_Lane, on Flickr

3. Got the boy to sit still for a couple of seconds. This one may be a little hot??




IMG_8240 by Ron_Lane, on Flickr


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## nycphotography (Jan 19, 2013)

#1 and #2 much better.  #3 you still have it hot on his forhead... possibly fixed by moving everything (camera and light) down to his level and more to the front.


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## ronlane (Jan 19, 2013)

nycphotography said:


> #1 and #2 much better.  #3 you still have it hot on his forhead... possibly fixed by moving everything (camera and light) down to his level and more to the front.



Thank you for the comments. Yeah, that was one of my set up photos and he wouldn't sit still long enough to make the adjustments but I love the smile and pose.


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## nycphotography (Jan 19, 2013)

ronlane said:


> nycphotography said:
> 
> 
> > #1 and #2 much better.  #3 you still have it hot on his forhead... possibly fixed by moving everything (camera and light) down to his level and more to the front.
> ...



With a squirmy subject, I find a two light setup just makes everything so much easier.


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## ronlane (Jan 19, 2013)

Thanks NYC. I will have to save some money before the boss will let me have anything else. She wasn't happy about this purchase but knew that it was needed.


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## cgipson1 (Jan 19, 2013)

Looking good! So you got that umbrella working, lol! Good reflector makes a difference doesn't it?  

Btw.. tell  your wife she has gorgeous eyes!


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## ronlane (Jan 19, 2013)

cgipson1 said:


> Looking good! So you got that umbrella working, lol! Good reflector makes a difference doesn't it?
> 
> Btw.. tell  your wife she has gorgeous eyes!



Yes it does make a big difference. Spend a little money and get the right gear and that helps too. It also helps to "relearn" that whole exposure triangle too. Being able to use the f stop to get the look is so helpful.

Thanks Charlie, I will tell her.


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## dbvirago (Jan 19, 2013)

How is this, and what are you using for PP?


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## ronlane (Jan 19, 2013)

dbvirago, I'm using Lightroom 4 but I have Elements 10 if needed. I did not run any of these through Elements to try to help them out. My goal with this thread and exercises is to improve the SOC so that all I need is LR4 for 90+% of my photos.  You have improved that photo but I look at it after the ones from yesterday and today and I am like, wow, I took that.


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## dbvirago (Jan 19, 2013)

Yeah, I missed the rest of the thread when I did the edit. You are in good hands and making great progress.


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## ronlane (Jan 19, 2013)

dbvirago said:


> Yeah, I missed the rest of the thread when I did the edit. You are in good hands and making great progress.



No worries, I welcome the comments and questions. I've learned so much by people asking me questions and making comments on this thread and I appreciate all the help.


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