# Want to get second shooter jobs-how do I do that ?



## goodguy

First I live in Toronto Canada.

I have been upgrading my equipment and my skills in the past few years.
I dont want to run and look for paying jobs just yet, I want to get a bit more experience as a second shooter in weddings.
I have designed a site that shows my pictures

My Site

I put few ads on kijiji asking for volunteer job as a second shooter but no reply.
I know I have everything it takes to do this but yet I cant find anyone that will take a guy with all the equipment and good skills for free.

Any suggestion or thoughts will be welcome


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## Braineack

sign up a secondshooters.com?


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## tirediron

You need to get out there and sell yourself.  If you don't already have one, get a proper portfolio printed up, with 8-12 of your BEST images as well as a 'Z' sheet with three of your best and your contact information, shine your shoes, put on your tie and put an extra dab of Bryl-Kreem in your hair and start knocking on doors.  As, in:  Get out there and actually knock on doors, talk to people.  If you can't actually talk to someone who can make a decision, leave a 'Z' sheet and a card, ask for one of their cards and call back in a week or two.This takes a lot of time and shoe leather, but an ad on Kijijijjijijijijijiiiiiii  will likely get you exactly nowhere because you're one of ten thousand fish in the same pond.


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## goodguy

tirediron said:


> You need to get out there and sell yourself.  If you don't already have one, get a proper portfolio printed up, with 8-12 of your BEST images as well as a 'Z' sheet with three of your best and your contact information, shine your shoes, put on your tie and put an extra dab of Bryl-Kreem in your hair and start knocking on doors.  As, in:  Get out there and actually knock on doors, talk to people.  If you can't actually talk to someone who can make a decision, leave a 'Z' sheet and a card, ask for one of their cards and call back in a week or two.This takes a lot of time and shoe leather, but an ad on Kijijijjijijijijijiiiiiii  will likely get you exactly nowhere because you're one of ten thousand fish in the same pond.


I am not looking for a paid job, I am looking for a photographer to work with for free!
My coin is experience and confidence.
My advanatge is that I have a career I love so photography is something I enjoy and want as a side income but not as a full time career.
I need to find somebody that will give me the chance to get better.


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## goodguy

Braineack said:


> sign up a secondshooters.com?


Never heard of this site, will check it, thanks for the link!


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## Vtec44

Facebook groups, especially local ones.  That's where I go when I need a second shooter while my regular second shooter is unavailable.  You'd probably start out as an assistant.


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## tirediron

goodguy said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> 
> You need to get out there and sell yourself.  If you don't already have one, get a proper portfolio printed up, with 8-12 of your BEST images as well as a 'Z' sheet with three of your best and your contact information, shine your shoes, put on your tie and put an extra dab of Bryl-Kreem in your hair and start knocking on doors.  As, in:  Get out there and actually knock on doors, talk to people.  If you can't actually talk to someone who can make a decision, leave a 'Z' sheet and a card, ask for one of their cards and call back in a week or two.This takes a lot of time and shoe leather, but an ad on Kijijijjijijijijijiiiiiii  will likely get you exactly nowhere because you're one of ten thousand fish in the same pond.
> 
> 
> 
> I am not looking for a paid job, I am looking for a photographer to work with for free!
Click to expand...

You and a thousand others!  I realize you're looking for an intern position, and if you want one with a GOOD photographer, you're going to have to compete for it.  This will take every bit as much work as getting a paid job in another sector.


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## goodguy

Looks like I have a long road ahead of me.


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## goodguy

Vtec44 said:


> Facebook groups, especially local ones.  That's where I go when I need a second shooter while my regular second shooter is unavailable.  You'd probably start out as an assistant.


Good idea, went and signed up to 2 Toronto Photographic group, hope they will accept me.


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## gsgary

A quote from one of my favourite photographers, " I wish people would get more serious about photography and treat it as a hobby"


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## Derrel

gsgary said:
			
		

> A quote from one of my favourite photographers, " I wish people would get more serious about photography and treat it as a hobby"



Huh...that sounds kind of familiar to me...


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## Dillard

Second shooting is all about networking. Meet and get to know local photographers that may be in need of assistance, post in community Facebook groups with current examples of your work, and quite frankly, don't be afraid to ask.

I posted in a local group offering free second shooting service because its something that I wanted to do. I wasn't interested in the money, and quite frankly didn't want the stress of botching someones big day. I wanted to shoot the wedding, be able to use my creativity, and step outside of my comfort zone with a new subject and environment. Within an hour after posting, I had at least 4 photographers message me. There are many people out there (now granted, they are lower end wedding photographers most likely), that don't price themselves in a range that allows them to fork out $200 of their profit for a second shooter, and would love for someone to come help out free of charge.

Now is that a permanent gig? Of course not. But it gives you wedding work that you can now incorporate into your portfolio for future networking. Not many photographers like paying someone to second shoot that have absolutely no wedding experience. It's kind of like being a teen and trying to get a credit card. You have to have credit to qualify for a credit card, but as a teen, its difficult to get credit without a credit card.


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## JoeW

"Second shooting is all about networking."  Yep!  Totally true in my experience.

Look, I'll offer my personal perspective--if I needed a second shooter for a wedding or another gig, I would only take someone that I knew, someone that I felt I could trust.  If it were some big, impersonal thing like an athletic event with a shooter at each station and 10 stations (you know, a marathon or color run or maybe covering election night across the state where you want photographers at multiple campaign headquarters for about 10 different candidates) than I might be recruiting sight unseen.  But for something like a wedding--no way!  I'm going to only use people I know.  It wouldn't be enough to look at their work online (b/c someone can have 10 lovely pictures and 1,000 pieces of crap that didn't make it up.  Or they could consistently miss all of the key timing "money shots."  Or they could be unreliable--fail to show up or show up late).

And when I've been picked up as a second shooter, it was always someone who knew me...or knew someone who knew me.

So what this means is:  you're going to need to make contacts.  Join groups (for working professional shooters, they're more likely to be online rather than meet-up groups in person) and have intelligent things to share in the online conversations.  Get to know some wedding planners.  Find out who the big wedding shooters are in your neck of the woods and try to make connections, offering to be a second shooter for them or assist on projects.


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## Dillard

Another note I forgot to mention, several photographers in my area have teamed up from time to time to host second shooter workshops. Its basically a way for you to meet the photographers and learn from seasoned professionals. They explain what they look for in a second shooter, how to compliment their own shooting style, and the general do's and don'ts. If you ever have something like this come up around you, try your best to go! Not only do you learn from those who have been shooting weddings for years, but its an amazing opportunity to network and show what you can do.


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## goodguy

Dillard said:


> Second shooting is all about networking. Meet and get to know local photographers that may be in need of assistance, post in community Facebook groups with current examples of your work, and quite frankly, don't be afraid to ask.
> 
> I posted in a local group offering free second shooting service because its something that I wanted to do. I wasn't interested in the money, and quite frankly didn't want the stress of botching someones big day. I wanted to shoot the wedding, be able to use my creativity, and step outside of my comfort zone with a new subject and environment. Within an hour after posting, I had at least 4 photographers message me. There are many people out there (now granted, they are lower end wedding photographers most likely), that don't price themselves in a range that allows them to fork out $200 of their profit for a second shooter, and would love for someone to come help out free of charge.
> 
> Now is that a permanent gig? Of course not. But it gives you wedding work that you can now incorporate into your portfolio for future networking. Not many photographers like paying someone to second shoot that have absolutely no wedding experience. It's kind of like being a teen and trying to get a credit card. You have to have credit to qualify for a credit card, but as a teen, its difficult to get credit without a credit card.


I think we share exact thought process, I have a full time permanent job, actually its more then a job its a career and I love it, photography for me is Love, Passion and all these good things, I aspire to turn this potentially in the future to a side income but that's for the future, since I have my regular income I am in a position where I can shoot for free, get the experience I need and the pictures I need to improve my portfolio.

I have listened to all your wonderful thoughts and I have signed up to a local Facebook photographer group and offered my free services, as I said this is not going to be a quick process but I will work on my networking and hopefully someone will be nice enough to use my free services and I am sure it will be a win/win situation, what I need it to be active and patience.
Active I can do easily but sadly I was never a patient man


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## goodguy

gsgary said:


> A quote from one of my favourite photographers, " I wish people would get more serious about photography and treat it as a hobby"


I believe its my attitude, the moment I dont see photography as a full time career I am in a position not to stress to much over it and enjoy the process and the shoot.


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## beckylynne

I second shot a wedding for a company years ago called 360 Photography I think?  They were always looking for second shooters and I think paid $250 a wedding.  I wasn't a fan of the company and never went back but hey, it was experience.  Maybe start searching out Toronto Photographers and approaching them about working with them...even if you want to do it for free.  I wouldn't sell yourself short, I would still ask for a few hundred.  I have a second and my next wedding is in Mexico which won't help yah


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## goodguy

beckylynne said:


> I second shot a wedding for a company years ago called 360 Photography I think?  They were always looking for second shooters and I think paid $250 a wedding.  I wasn't a fan of the company and never went back but hey, it was experience.  Maybe start searching out Toronto Photographers and approaching them about working with them...even if you want to do it for free.  I wouldn't sell yourself short, I would still ask for a few hundred.  I have a second and my next wedding is in Mexico which won't help yah


Thank you for the info, I will check 360 photography.
If you know any photographer in the GTA who might be looking for a second shooter I will greatly appreciate if you mention my name.
Also if you are ver in a problem and need help let me know.

Thank you


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## gsgary

goodguy said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> 
> A quote from one of my favourite photographers, " I wish people would get more serious about photography and treat it as a hobby"
> 
> 
> 
> I believe its my attitude, the moment I dont see photography as a full time career I am in a position not to stress to much over it and enjoy the process and the shoot.
Click to expand...

I would never give up my weekends to make money from photography especially shooting weddings I've done a few for friends and they bored me shitless


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## goodguy

gsgary said:


> goodguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> 
> A quote from one of my favourite photographers, " I wish people would get more serious about photography and treat it as a hobby"
> 
> 
> 
> I believe its my attitude, the moment I dont see photography as a full time career I am in a position not to stress to much over it and enjoy the process and the shoot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would never give up my weekends to make money from photography especially shooting weddings I've done a few for friends and they bored me shitless
Click to expand...

Ah you see I work only 7 days every 2 weeks so I have plenty of time on my hands to spend


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## beagle100

goodguy said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> 
> A quote from one of my favourite photographers, " I wish people would get more serious about photography and treat it as a hobby"
> 
> 
> 
> I believe its my attitude, the moment I dont see photography as a full time career I am in a position not to stress to much over it and enjoy the process and the shoot.
Click to expand...


yes, photography is a *hobby* like golf, just enjoy it and don't worry about making money


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## desertrattm2r12

Do you have any idea how much money, blood, tears and sweat an unreliable/flakey/dishonest second shooter could possibly cost a pro photographer? "Free" isn't the coin you need to offer. It's "trust." A "free" photog might just not show up saying to himself "what does he expect for nothing, miracles?"
I'm not suggesting you are any of those bad things but how does a pro know that? I'd suggest you try to find a pro who will let you monitor his shoot -- with you just watching. You could be kinda of a gofer but I wouldn't phrase it that way. But if you are helpful, perhaps you can build some trust.
Also tell me why you think a pro wants to train his competition? The olde film "All AboutEve" comes to mind.


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## JustJazzie




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## ruggedshutter

desertrattm2r12 said:


> Also tell me why you think a pro wants to train his competition? The olde film "All AboutEve" comes to mind.



Because there are more than enough weddings to go around for everyone.  I shoot my own weddings and second for a local pro.  We refer clients to each other if they aren't a good price fit.  Plus he gets a very competent second shooter than can go off and shoot the groom or bridesmaids while he's off doing something else and doesn't have to worry if I'm capable.

Yes you have to build trust but if you can get into an interview and express a good photography understanding and background along with reliability in jobs outside of photography; then there's no reason for the pro not to trust you enough to at least show up.


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## desertrattm2r12

Well that's one. Maybe he should move to your town.Where I come from we say "you get what you pay for" and I think his absolute faith that everyone wants someone to work for nothing is misplaced. He should talk up his other qualities and not wait by the phone for someone wanting slave labor.


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## Vtec44

desertrattm2r12 said:


> Also tell me why you think a pro wants to train his competition? The olde film "All AboutEve" comes to mind.



I shoot weddings for a living.  I trained my apprentice for over a year.  She's starting her own business soon and I will help her to do so.   I always tell her that even  though I trained her, we will never shoot the same because we're different people.  I also tell her that for every stage in our wedding photography career, there will always be clients.  Since I shoot only 25-30 weddings a year, I refer my overflow to her and she helps me with second shooting since she's not booking a lot yet.  It's a mutual beneficial relationship.  There is a lot in running a photography business.  Just because you know how to photograph beautiful photos, it doesn't mean your photography business will automatically be successful.


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## vintagesnaps

You could look at http//asmp.org Find a Photographer and see what the expectations are for second shooters. I think a photographer needs someone who can handle specific tasks independently.

It's going to take a photographer's time to work with a completely inexperienced shooter, they probably can't shoot a wedding and train you without hiring an assistant who can handle getting some of the photos. Probably you're looking more at seeing if there's a photographer in your area that would let you shadow or observe them.


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