# Why so many snap shots...?



## EJBPhoto (Mar 10, 2007)

Do some of you feel like all you're seeing these days on here are P and S snap shots...?  I don't know if I'm in the wrong section of the site or what... but I can't seem to find the same level of quality that I found before the forums were reorganized.


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## The_Traveler (Mar 10, 2007)

I saw this post and just had to laugh because no one would ever talk about the elephant in the room.


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## Alex_B (Mar 10, 2007)

I think this is a problem more in the people and pets / portrait section?

But then again all I post in Landscape & Nature are snapshots in a way 

.. but I see what you mean and we had related discussions before ... it is the thing about just wanting to share a shot of an interesting subject (where the quality of the image is of subordinate importance), or the other extreme, to get hardcore crtitique on the way the subject is photographed.

Both are valid approaches and both should be allowed on the forum. The trouble is just how to spearate the two to minimise frustration for both sides


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## Alex_B (Mar 10, 2007)

I mean the word "pets" .. just calls for snapshots of our loved ones, doesn't it?


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## EJBPhoto (Mar 10, 2007)

I mean I don't have much interest in the other portrait section of here because although I take my photography quite seriously and feel like I am more involved in it than most of the people posting in this forum- I am not interested in wedding photography. And that's a lot of what's in the other forum.  I used to TAKE a lot from this forum, and now I feel like I'm not learning anything- just CCing stuff that looks like no one took the time to think about the composition or learn about photography.  Maybe I'm being cruel, but I think if you join this forum, you need to be serious about the art and I don't get that sense all the time here.


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## JenR (Mar 10, 2007)

Maybe some of it is that the people here have _vastly_ different levels of experience. What you see as a snapshot might really be a beginner's good faith effort to improve. 

For one, I am an absolute beginner with no artistic background. I *am *learning about composition and photography; but it is a slow process. When I post a photo here, it is so that I can get advice and learn how to improve. Is it a snapshot? Probably. Is it better than one I took a few weeks ago? I hope so. 

One day I would like to take really stunning photos, but in the meantime, my shots might bore you to tears. It is all a work in progress.

~jen


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## DeepSpring (Mar 10, 2007)

I definately know what you mean. I don't see any ways to seperate the two tho


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## brighteyesphotos (Mar 10, 2007)

JenR said:


> Maybe some of it is that the people here have _vastly_ different levels of experience. What you see as a snapshot might really be a beginner's good faith effort to improve.


 
BINGO! 

What you are seeing as a snapshot or poorly set up could be a beginner's attempt at learning more. I post some crap shots because I am looking for tips on how to improve. If someone can point out a problem and suggest a different approach, then my next picture could be better (in theory). In the meantime, I'm sure some of my stuff look like snapshots. And sometimes, snapshots are the best art. Art is subjective. 3 people can look at a picture and see three different things and have three different opinions of it. 

Not sure what to tell you as far as the amount of stuff that is being posted. I try to look at every picture that is shared. Some feel snapshotsy to me. Others make my stuff look like my kid took them. Does that mean everyone else has the same opinion? Doubtful. I think in the People and Pets gallery, people are sharing random shots because they feel that they  have managed to capture a certain feeling or look. Also, I think for many of us beginners (I know I am still a beginner in many ways) our kids, family and pets ARE our best practice subjects so we may post more of them, thus coming across as posting snapshots to the general audience. 

I'm learning a lot here. Every so often, the older crowd is going to give way to the newer crowd (not calling you old, it's a reference to experience and # of posts). The older crowd may see the newer crowd's stuff as snapshots. I'm willing to bet by the end of the year, I'd be wondering why are there so many crap shots being posted. But then I'll have to remember that everyone starts somewhere and that includes snapshots.


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## JimmyJaceyMom (Mar 10, 2007)

I know what you mean and I thought too that another thing that sucks is that most people visit the same sections all the time (I know I do)  and some of the poeple that only really stick to the portrait amd wedding section don't come here.  I am not entitled to posting my pictures for some of those I really liked over there to tell me what they think anymore because mine are not proffesional.  I miss some of their opinions.    I mean not that I don't value all of yours, of course I do.  But I think you know what I mean.


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## JimmyJaceyMom (Mar 10, 2007)

Maybe I'm being cruel, but I think if you join this forum, you need to be serious about the art and I don't get that sense all the time here.[/quote]


I wanted to add that I suck right now but I am very serious aboutlearning more. I have to take some classes and things to really get it because I think I'm a bit learning disabled in the way that I simply can't GET IT when I read!  I'm a hands on girl.  So when you see mine please don't think I'm here for fun and games.  I really love the art of photography and want to do well.  It's just very hard.


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## The_Traveler (Mar 10, 2007)

I welcome newcomers, beginners. They bring lifesblood into the forum. Encourage them as photographers not as mommies or daddies or people who share pictures of their favorite dog, cat, car, etc. Ignore how you feel about the subject and look at the picture.

I think that the best way to keep the postings on the actual 'photographic track' is to not give token replies.  If someone posts a snapshot-picture of a beautiful child, don't say, 'cute kid' and quit, make some sort of statement about the posting as a picture. Don't divert the discussion to talk about where the OP lives or how cool his avatar is. Do your bit to keep the subject on track.

It's disconcerting to look at a posting, see a picture that needs some actual critique and see 5 or 6 prior comments that are complete fluff. 

Don't say, "I don't know enough to say anything." Well, if you want to be a better photorapher, this is the time to learn. Exercise your mind and figure out what can be done to make the picture better. A string of 'that's really cute' or 'he'll break hearts' or 'my little Alphonse did the same thing when he was that age' doesn't do anyone any good if they're trying to take better pictures.

That's your part in this bargain - and if you don't try to learn and make insightful comments about the picture, it's you, the viewer who is failing in the bargain. 

There are lots of good comments here.  Read them and try to understand what the viewer is seeing. Try to apply what you know and what you've done.  And if you don't have anything relevant to say, don't divert the topic by saying something irrelevant.


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## enne (Mar 10, 2007)

I understand what you mean - I've come across some images and thought "why would someone post this here?" but at the same time, I'm new here and shouldn't really say anything on this subject, as I'm not super confident with my photos and I haven't posted any here because of it.

However some constructive criticism might do me good so I might as well start sometime


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## EJBPhoto (Mar 11, 2007)

I guess I just see little thought going into the pictures here.  People don't post their settings, they ask for comments but they don't take the CC... *sigh* I guess I just miss how the board used to be.  Ah well. Lately though I've been trying to CC but I don't even know where to begin sometimes!

Does anyone find that the CC board on this website is any good?


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## Alex_B (Mar 11, 2007)

EJBPhoto said:


> Does anyone find that the CC board on this website is any good?



You mean the Photo Critique?


I think I never posted anything there yet, but critique can be fairly constructive there.


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## JimmyJaceyMom (Mar 11, 2007)

I have posted a couple of photos there and those people that help out there are AWESOME!  It's where I learned the very few things I now know about and didn't before... mostly about composititon but also photo shop too.  

And to The Traveler... You're great.  I understand what you mean when you say about how some people leave comments that don't help.  I think for me, I do that because I know it's frustrating to see that like 1,000 people (slight exageration) looked at a picture and no one says anything at all.  Even though the only commet you may get is, cute kid.  At least it makes you feel like a part of things because someone acknowledged your post at all.  And I really don't know yet what to tell someone ususally as far as what will make it better, aside form the very obvious things.  I don't want to never say anything because I do not want to only take form this board but I would at least like to try and contribute something by posting even something small for now.    This isn't just something I want to be a hobby... I really love it and i want to be good at it, but it's hard.  Did you ever see the movie Amadeus?  I feel like Antonio Salieri sometimes!!!!  If you haven't seen that movie, watch it - it's good and you'll know what I mean.


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## EJBPhoto (Mar 12, 2007)

Then make sure you're reading and studying   Make sure you get Kelby's The Digital Photography Book and Peterson's Understanding Exposure.  I feel like if a lot of people on here took the time to open some photo literature, they would be so glad they did it!


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## Orgnoi1 (Mar 12, 2007)

Everyone has to start somewhere... so with that I think maybe we are being a little overly critical. Someones art may be a snapshot to you... or vice versa... BUT that makes it no less important to the person who took it for whatever reason...

Either way its for the people who have been doing this for sometime to teach the people who are new... as those taught us when we started...


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## EJBPhoto (Mar 12, 2007)

Happy to teach, just wish there was a better mix of learning and teaching going on here   Also sick of CCing and people never responding to the CC, but ah well.  That's why I've been limiting myself lately.

Beginners are fine!   Beginners who want to learn...


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## Ripnowell45 (Mar 12, 2007)

Like said before some people are still learning... For example, ME.  There are many types of skill levels on here and that is what I like about it.  The less experienced people can get tips and help from the more experienced people.  Saying that someones shot is a snap shot, I feel is pretty rude.  If you dont like the picture give the person some ways to improve it.  Dont just call it a snap shot and say that you dont understand why someone would post it on here.  I looked at some of your work that you posted to see how good you really were to be able to say what you did.  I really like your recent work but your first 2 posts you ever made to me arent great.  So as you can see you progressed because of people teaching and helping you.


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## JimmyJaceyMom (Mar 12, 2007)

I don't really think this was meant to be taken offensively.  I think it's hard to express how you feel with typing.  And I think EJBphoto does try to help with CC.. Has in my posts I know.  I was here before the forums were split up so I kinda know what is meant by things changing the way they have.


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## EJBPhoto (Mar 12, 2007)

It's not an issue about the quality of what is being posted.  Obviously if you're a beginner, you're not going be taking perfect picture.  Actually, I STILL consider myself a beginner.  It has nothing to do with what the pictures look like.  

My frustration is just the way some people are posting- not responding to CC, getting defensive about even the nicest CC... a lot of people aren't even looking for CC, I suppose, so I don't think a lot of people are here to improve and learn, and it used to be a bit more like that before the forums changed over.

If you've been here for awhile, then you've seen how the quality of the pictures have changed.  Personally I feel, when people are posting pictures they took with their cell phones, you have to step back and say, wait, is this a photography forum or is this a share any picture you've ever taken forum? Not trying to be rude   Would just like to see people taking photography on this site a bit more seriously sometimes.  I know I still need to learn, and I'm having trouble learning anything lately.


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## EJBPhoto (Mar 12, 2007)

Oh I would also like to say, part of the reason for this could be the fact that photography is rather trendy right now.  SLRs are so much more affordable right now, all it takes it someone going to the store, dropping 1k, and snapping away without reading the manual, studying photography, etc and suddenly they're a photographer!    You've got to start somewhere, but I've made the mistake before my myself- start with the BOOKS! Look at photography and learn exposure till your eyes bleed.  I'm still learning and its exhausting, but so worth it.


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## Digital Matt (Mar 12, 2007)

I have been here a while, and the one thing that has changed is the size of the membership.  When this forum started, it had far fewer members, and obviously those members were dedicated not only to the forum, but to photography as well.  As the forum has grown more popular, we've picked up lots of new members, and their interest in photography ranges from pro, to serious amateur, to hobbyist, to snap shooter.  The title of the forum is not "The Pro Photo Forum".  The overall decline in quality of pictures as you put it, is simply a change in the ratio of beginners to experienced.  There are plenty of great shots posted everyday.


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## EJBPhoto (Mar 12, 2007)

Can you give me a heads up then about what part of this website seems to have a bit less of the snap shots and hobbyist work? What forum are you mostly find this?


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## Digital Matt (Mar 12, 2007)

Click on "New Posts" and look through them.  If you are really starving for good photography, why don't you get some books from the library of great photographers?


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## Alex_B (Mar 12, 2007)

EJBPhoto said:


> Personally I feel, when people are posting pictures they took with their cell phones, you have to step back and say, wait, is this a photography forum or is this a share any picture you've ever taken forum?



Recently I have seen some really artsy pictures from a mobile phone camera on here ... so I would not blame it on the phones 

But I see what you mean...


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## HASHASHIN (Mar 12, 2007)

god...i hope my photos arent being included in your idea of a snapshot


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## EJBPhoto (Mar 12, 2007)

Digital Matt said:


> Click on "New Posts" and look through them.  If you are really starving for good photography, why don't you get some books from the library of great photographers?



I use another photography forum so in response to your dry comment, no I'm not starving for good photography   Just disappointed to see the changes in thephotoforum since the switch. That is all.


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## Alex_B (Mar 12, 2007)

EJBPhoto said:


> I use another photography forum so in response to your dry comment, no I'm not starving for good photography   Just disappointed to see the changes in thephotoforum since the switch. That is all.



so you would definitely blame it on the rearrangement of categories?

maybe we could have "serious portraits" for people to learn (be it human portraits or animal portraits)

and "portrait snapshots" .. for just sharing images and discussing how cute the depicted scence are

.. i would certainly only qualify for the second category .. and n fact I so far posted most of my people and  "cute" animal shots under "snapshots and bloopers" ...


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## Digital Matt (Mar 12, 2007)

My comment is hardly "dry".  Just glancing in new posts, I've seen at least 6-7 posts with good "not snapshot" photos.  Apparently your other photo forum has much higher quality, so why are you slumming here?


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## EJBPhoto (Mar 12, 2007)

I spend 80 percent of my time there and about 20 percent here.  This was my first photography forum so obviously an attachment and there are things I definitely like about this forum!  No need to make this thread so negative.  By no means did I say I like nothing about this website. I just said it has changed.  Now smile


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## Digital Matt (Mar 12, 2007)

This thread is negative, and it's not the first.  There have been several threads recently complaining about the quality of photography and critique on here.  It's easy to get a big head and forget that we all took snapshots at one point, and the only way we got better was to show them to someone else to get feedback.  I think it's a testament to how great a forum this is, that there are so many novice photographers here posting their snapshots, looking for advice.


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## LaFoto (Mar 12, 2007)

Let's all stay cool and level-headed.
This forum also has a "SNAPSHOT"-gallery.
Maybe it is the combined name of "Snapshots and Bloopers" that keeps people away from that one. Maybe it is the fact that few people THINK of their photos as snapshots. Maybe it is because too few really read our guidelines or forum subtitles. Maybe it is because too few members ever go into various other galleries, such as "Snapshots and Bloopers", for example, which is why those who once were there to post photos that they themselves deemed to be snapshots never got looked at by anyone, not to mention getting comments.

But we are not going to rearrange the forums yet again only because some are not happy with the situation as it is at present.

You are free to post your portrait shots in Portraits and Weddings, EJB, if they look like and were arranged and composed as if you had wanted to sell them to a client. If that is the direction you plan on going, go to Portraits and Weddings and read there and post there.

And you are also always invited to explain to our new posters or those who you think cannot produce any decent portraits what you think should be changed and how you think they could create better portraits. That would, in fact, be very kind and very helpful.

To give the majority of our members the feeling they are doing so bad you are not giving them a glance is not quite so helpful, I'm afraid.


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## EJBPhoto (Mar 12, 2007)

Which is why I know I personally give advice.  However, I know some of us who have been awhile longer STILL want advice!  I am not at all at the level  I used to be, and this forum used to help me lot!  It's just that the problem is now not a lot of people in this particular part of the site are able to give good CC.

 You're missing the point so I will stop arguing now.  It's not about having a big head. It's about seeing the sites changes and feeling disapppointed by them- wondering if I'm just in the wrong forum.  Ah well. Good day to you.


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## EJBPhoto (Mar 12, 2007)

Lafoto- I think you'll notice I give plenty of CC and attempt a lot of "plays" for people, so I give the photos much more than a glance.  I will consider using the other forum more often. Thank you


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## LaFoto (Mar 12, 2007)

OK, enough has been said and we all know about your disappointment and things will turn back up but for the time being this very thread will get closed.


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