# Film IS DEAD and Filmophobia



## PaulBennett (Sep 6, 2007)

Boy that got your attention.  

Technically, film is far from dead and will not die as long as photo-processing labs are abundant.  Which is the case.  Now then, if batteries suddenly became unavailable*, whose technique is dead then?  Many amongst my thousands of Nikon F shots sell fine without a computer and my slides never suffered nor fear a hard drive crash.

OK B&W is virtually dead commercially and color could follow in a century or two.  (I could be wrong but can't find b&w film or processing around here).  BUT

Who cares.  Digital people seem to be threatened by us who still use film.  Why they are threatened is uncertain...I'm not a psychologist but the inability to accept what someone else does sure smacks of insecurity.  

I feel impelled to touch on being called a 'hybrid'. Defining the use of digital in any step of the process make a person 'digital' is almost as infantile.  Who cares.  Does it make you a better person to use an enlarger rather than a printer?  (maybe so)   and    (maybe not)   --   repeat after me  -- WHO CARES

*Some fear the upcoming magnetic pole swap and what it will do to wipe out all  electronics.  And some fear the 'Greenies' and there ability to kill technologies in the name of environmentalism...batteries ARE on their list.

Bottom line.  I say - "Who cares".  If you get agitated because someone refuses to 'go digital', I feel for you, bro.


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## JamesD (Sep 6, 2007)

Tread very, very carefully.  Any threads which include classification into Film and Digital, and then comparison of classes, are VERY highly frowned upon by the moderators.  And they make Terri grumpy when they show up in the Alt Forum.

A grumpy Terri is a bad thing.  She's ever so much more fun when she's happy. :mrgreen:


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## Don Simon (Sep 6, 2007)

PaulBennett said:


> *Some fear the upcoming magnetic pole swap and what it will do to wipe out all electronics. And some fear the 'Greenies' and there ability to kill technologies in the name of environmentalism...


 
Wow, I never realised there were so many more things to be terrified of... I think I'll just hide under my bed for a few years


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## JamesD (Sep 6, 2007)

Oh yeah.  There's TONS of them.  (Like a grumpy Terri... and I have a feeling she's gonna start a wee bit grumpy today... I know I would... but anyway).

This says nothing of sudden nucleonic bonding, turning nitrogen into granite, causing the atmosphere to suddenly drop to the surface of the earth.  There are theories which explain exactly how this could happen.  I believe the theory was first propagated by the infamous Mr. Little.

Don't forget _Battlefield Earth_ and _Waterworld_.  'Nuff said, I think.

And then, there's always the... _thing_ that's been lurking in the back of the fridge since October of '98....

Talk about scary...  Or are these just my phobias?


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## Stillwater (Sep 6, 2007)

Oh man _Battlefield Earth. _

I always fear the things in the back of my fridge.


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## terri (Sep 6, 2007)

> Don't forget _Battlefield Earth_ and _Waterworld_. 'Nuff said, I think.
> 
> And then, there's always the... _thing_ that's been lurking in the back of the fridge since October of '98....


 
 That was good.

It's the back of my closet for me. 

Paul, I appreciate what I presume is the intent behind this thread.  I don't want it to turn into another battleground, though. I agree there sometimes seems to be more odd hostility directed at analog photographers from digital users than vice-versa. The debates are pointless and do nothing to promote our supposed mutual enjoyment of photography. I don't think I'll ever get it - nor will I care, as long as I'm being left alone in my stinky little darkroom. Why we can't just enjoy the craft amongst ourselves without these occasional defensive posts is beyond me. 

Feeling threatened? Go spend some time on APUG - an even larger membership than TPF and strictly analog - you get reminded quickly you are far from alone in your passion! 

I shoot film because I want to.

I shoot film because I need transparencies for certain alternative processes.

I shoot film because these older cameras (particularly MF) are incredibly well-made, beautiful, durable, and just a joy to hold and use.

I shoot film because I love working in the darkroom.

That's MY choice. I don't have to justify it to anyone. Everyone else has the privilege to make their own. 



> a grumpy Terri... and I have a feeling she's gonna start a wee bit grumpy today... I know I would... but anyway


No worries, babe, I feel fine.


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## sabbath999 (Sep 6, 2007)

Film is neither dead nor alive... it isn't animal, vegetable or whatever that weird stuff virus strains are made out of...


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## Paul Ron (Sep 16, 2007)

Film will always be a choice in a digital world where electronics tend to change faster than my underwear. you'll chase the digital dragon and I'll cruise in my convertable as long as gas is still available. 

Right now I'm enjoying the low prices of professional dumpers getting rid of very expensive equipment at rock bottom prices. It doesn't get any better when shooting a $6000 camera I picked up for $400 with extra lenses n backs. So cheap I buy em broken for even less and fix em. So I have a complete inventory of a camera system I picked up for $100 that created a new hobby for me... camera repairs... and that actually makes me extra cash to buy more. I've become so good, and so busy, I colect n fix collector cameras and old classics. 

Now I shoot 75-40 year old cameras that are so much fun to use and get so much more experiance with darkroom techniques... I'm having a blast with it. I could never afford any of this stuff before digital came along.

So thank you digiheads for making the film market so cheap anyone on a fixed income can afford it. 

Oh did I mention now that "film is dead"... my silver gelatin photos are selling for $500/ea instead of what I use to get, a meer $25/ea. It seems more in demad now as "collectable art." Try selling a compter printout for that much. 

How much is that digital SLR selling for nowadayz?


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## jwkwd (Sep 17, 2007)

But, one thing that I have seen with a lot of newer people entering photography, They get the camera bug with digital, then want to see how it was done in the old days and try film. In a out of the box kind of way, it self sustains.


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## EllaBites (Sep 20, 2007)

jwkwd said:


> But, one thing that I have seen with a lot of newer people entering photography, They get the camera bug with digital, then want to see how it was done in the old days and try film. In a out of the box kind of way, it self sustains.




This is me all the way.  Except, I was less curious about how it was done "in the olden days" and more curious about how it it is done period. We have had a very nice film camera for quite some time but I still continued to shoot on my less than ideal digital until about a week ago.  Now I can't quite remember why I like digital in the first place, except for the convenience.


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## PaulBennett (Sep 21, 2007)

Interesting ... 
...digital photography proves to be the entry level to film photography for many.   

Life is great...and filled with choices.


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## Keith Gebhardt (Sep 23, 2007)

I personally think.. a true photographer must master the elements of film photography way before he/she advances into digital for film being a whole diffrent concept and more complicated art. 

Same as medium format, large format, and pinhole photography. Master these skills, and your a true professional. Shooting digital is all nice and dandy.. but to a limit. How good is your work truely? without the camera or computer editing it while being transfered? or you personally editing it yourself.

Ive shot film for 4 years before i ever considered buying a digital camera. and to this day i will still shoot my canon eos rebel and nikon f100 for any landscape or portrait shot i take.. as far as doing weddings, sports etc.. digital is definately quicker and the results 9/10 times please the customer.

There will always be arguments leading to whether or not film or digital is better. But if anyone goes to school for PHOTOGRAPHY.. youll be started off with a plain and simple 35mm slr camera and then move up to digital. Unless your school is for DIGITAL PHOTOGRAPHY, youll obviously touch nothing but digital


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## Mike Jordan (Sep 23, 2007)

I thought the olden days was shooting with only 1.5 megapixles?







Mike


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## RacePhoto (Sep 25, 2007)

Mike Jordan said:


> I thought the olden days was shooting with only 1.5 megapixles?
> 
> 
> 
> Mike




I don't think my Mavica 7 is even 1.5, more like .9 megapixles 640 x 480. Now that's the old days!  I printed one of those photos, once. Almost good enough for a fuzzy bookmark. But wonderful for websites and eBay. $700 toy camera.



> Digital people seem to be threatened by us who still use film. Why they are threatened is uncertain...I'm not a psychologist but the inability to accept what someone else does sure smacks of insecurity.



I find this the funniest part of the entire original message. It's just the opposite! In fact why is PaulBennett being so defensive and protective of his film interests? :meh: What is there to say about people who have the inability to change?

My take. Shoot film if you like it. I think the prices on used equipment are just fantastic, and low. Shoot digital if you want to sell your product in the modern world. Warning... any grain kills sales most of the time. Scans to digital, from film, just don't cut it, unless you use very expensive equipment.

*Neither one is any less photography, than the other. They are just different mediums and methods.*

Stop telling me that if I shoot film on Monday and digital on Tuesday, I'm not still taking photographs. Because I still shoot both!

As for B&W processing being dead. Really? I still have a changing bag and some tanks. (a dark closet will do just fine) Haven't taken a roll to the lab in 40 years. It's inexpensive and hands on fun. Nothing better than the satisfaction of taking, developing, and printing your own B&W photos.

I know that my Beta machines are much better than VHS, but I don't use them anymore. I don't sit around and whine over and over, about how VHS is crap and Beta is better.

Attention film shooters who have a persecution complex. Get over it! :mrgreen: Have fun, shoot your film, enjoy all that top grade equipment for bargain prices. But you might as well admit that things have changed and photography has changed. Digital is every bit as good and in most cases better than film!

There are some things that film does better and that digital may not do for another 20 years, except if someone has thousands or millions of dollars for state of the art digital equipment.

Each has it's place, benefits, features and special value.


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## Antithesis (Sep 25, 2007)

I'm new to the photography thing and I'm headed into the dark room for the first time next week. I'm actually far more excited than the first time I uploaded a photo from my digital. I think both processes are fun for different reasons. I don't think film has nearly the advantages for someone just starting out like me, but learning the process and understanding exposure on that next level might actually make me a better photographer. 

I like digital because I can take a picture and see instantly what it looks like and what I might need to change. Film never did it for me when I was younger shooting around with my dad's old nikon because it took a long time to find out what I was doing or doing wrong. 

Regardless, to each his own.


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## EZzing (Sep 25, 2007)

Greetings from the newest member. I recently became addicted to cameras without knowing the first thing about them.

I bought a few off of Ebay and they all had problems, but I've gotten a couple of them to work.

I went to the park today to take pictures and I used the only digital I have, a finepixs s700 and an old Asahi Pentax Spotmatic. I like the instant results from the digital and the fun experimenting with the features. The pentax took a little work to clean up and replace the light seals and I should know in a couple of days how the photos turned out. I had a great time and got very close to an Egret and a really irritable goose. I had a couple of digitals that turned out OKay, but after viewing them, I wished I knew how to correctly compose the photograph where the birds would be in the best location and the picture framed?? correctly?? 

I was a kid in the 50s and really liked the old TLR cameras but I didn't realize they were as limited as they are. That didn't stop me from buying a beautiful weltaflex TLR that uses the 120 film. I will take that out next week.

My son and I bought a photo enlarger the day after we bought some 2 gig memory cards for our digital cameras.

I need to learn everything and I'm loving every minute of it!!! I'm glad I found this sight with so many knowledgeable photographers.

At any rate, who cares what someone else thinks about the "flavor" of photography you prefer. I'm glad you're here and willing to share your photos and knowledge.

Bill


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## terri (Sep 26, 2007)

Bill: that's a beautiful attitude. :thumbup: I hope you have a lot of fun here and share lots of your pictures. Welcome to TPF!


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## Commonman (Oct 1, 2007)

I use the computer all day at work.  That is a primary reason I stay with film.  I need a break from the computer and find the whole film/darkroom activity to be relaxing and fun.


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## ZedU54 (Oct 3, 2007)

...I am a firm believer in the proposition that film and digital photography can--and should--peacefully coexist, just as LPs and CDs should in the audio world...now, I always wanted a decent 35mm camera, but I could never afford one, even when I was in the military (I had my family with me, and they came first)...so, even though I went out and bought a digital camera a couple of years ago (for the impending birth of my grandson), and had a good time shooting pictres of him, I was thrilled when a Maxxum 3xi sort of fell into my lap...I quickly added an assortment of lenses and a 5xi body, and I have a 7xi on the way (that needs the film transport looked at) and I've been having fun with all of it...even though I'm still just learning how to use it...shot two rolls of Fuji 400 for said grandson's second birthday party this past weekend; can't wait to see how they came out...


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## kman627 (Oct 4, 2007)

It's not digital photographers that have a filmphobia.  It's the mfg's and digital sales people who don't want you to shoot film.  They want you to come into their shop and drop that grand or more on the latest and greatest dslr.  They sure as hell don't want you to go on ebay and buy a medium format rig for a couple hundred bucks or less.  If any photographers have filmphobia, it's only because they're jealous


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## Joxby (Oct 4, 2007)

RacePhoto said:


> I find this the funniest part of the entire original message. It's just the opposite! In fact why is PaulBennett being so defensive and protective of his film interests? :meh: What is there to say about people who have the inability to change?
> 
> My take. Shoot film if you like it. I think the prices on used equipment are just fantastic, and low. Shoot digital if you want to sell your product in the modern world. Warning... any grain kills sales most of the time. Scans to digital, from film, just don't cut it, unless you use very expensive equipment.
> 
> ...




I dont understand this post, it contains virtually nothing of any relevence to me as a person who shoots film.....by choice.
Nobody is unable to change, just unwilling, its a choice.
"I shoot film because I cant afford digital".....ridiculous
"I shoot film cos top gear is cheaper".....bull, I wont waste your time by quoting costs, suffice to say we all have a budget and could choose either medium with the same budget.
He said, B/W film is dead _commercially_, it might be I wouldn't know, but by your reasoning it wouldn't sell anyway, too much grain...sales...profit margins...product....scans....blah blah blah......crap.
Photography hasn't changed, only the transfer of the media has changed.
I think digital photography is always looking for validation from the film fraternatie, its time it stopped asking "am I good enough now", jumped off the bandwaggon and stood on its own two feet.
I shoot film because....I LIKE IT, and, yes, I will defend it when I see the materials I need to continue liking it, dissappearing from the shelves, and having to read paragraphs of drivel pushing the virtues of digital as an alternative.....cos it just, isn't.
I dont even dislike digital, my first camera was £700's worth of digital, I shoot both, I'm just sick of having to "explain" my preference, and it just bouncing off a brick wall, it insinuates that I'm stupid.
Somebody please tell me why I shoot film, obviously I dont possess the required IQ points to make an informed decision by myself....duh


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## tazmun (Oct 6, 2007)

EllaBites said:


> This is me all the way.  Except, I was less curious about how it was done "in the olden days" and more curious about how it it is done period. We have had a very nice film camera for quite some time but I still continued to shoot on my less than ideal digital until about a week ago.  Now I can't quite remember why I like digital in the first place, except for the convenience.



 Hi All

I'm a new member and this is my first post. I so relate to the digital driving me to film. Digital actually brought about my interest in photography, but the quality of the image, especially in the early days, and the limitations of the equipment inspired me to try a 35mm slr. I was hooked right from the start with film, even though after a time I found my film scans produced better images then I was getting from my processing service. So eventually I tried the Canon 20D and yes I was impressed. But it didn't replace film for me as I still find many things film does better *for me* then digital. I like to carry a camera with me at all times. I'm scared to do this with the 20D, but banging around what is now a cheap slr 35mm isn't near as scary.

Plus I just love film, and those very reasonably priced medium formats....are like calling me..lol.

I gotta say I just don't understand the animosity on this issue though..it's photography, it's all good /click/ 

Tazmun


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## ksmattfish (Oct 7, 2007)

PaulBennett said:


> epeat after me  -- WHO CARES



You should follow your own advice when thinking about posting anything about film vs. digital.  On a personal level it's an individual choice.  In the big picture digital has won, film has lost.  The debate is over, except among film geeks.

"Whether a watercolor is inferior to an oil, or whether a drawing, an etching, or a photograph is not as important as either, is inconsequent. To have to despise something in order to respect something else is a sign of impotence." -Paul Strand


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## Jeff Canes (Oct 7, 2007)

i hope not, because i have new film camera on order, should come next weak


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## terri (Oct 8, 2007)

Jeff Canes said:


> i hope not, because i have new film camera on order, should come next weak


Awesome, Jeff - what are you getting?


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## Jeff Canes (Oct 8, 2007)

A cheep &#8220;M&#8221; mount Voigtlander Bessa T, I have been think about getting one for a few years, but keep butting it out because of the mixed reviews I have seen about Cosina quality dealing mostly with rangefinder calibration, already have a nice Canon IV L39 mount but you need to work the shutter a lot or it stick between uses and on long rolls, got tired of dealing with the Canon figure it was time to give Voigtlander a try


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## terri (Oct 8, 2007)

Jeff Canes said:


> A cheep M mount Voigtlander Bessa T, I have been think about getting one for a few years, but keep butting it out because of the mixed reviews I have seen about Cosina quality dealing mostly with rangefinder calibration, already have a nice Canon IV L39 mount but you need to work the shutter a lot or it stick between uses and on long rolls, got tired of dealing with the Canon figure it was time to give Voigtlander a try


Sounds cool - and I bet it's beautiful. Here's hoping you don't have any issues with the rangefinder, that can be a pita. Show the new baby when it arrives!


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