# Need help pickin my first DSLR



## Machupicchu (Nov 5, 2009)

Hi, 

I need help choosing my first real digital camera. Im currently a graphic design student and am interested in getting into photography as the two go semi hand in hand. I am in an introductory film class only because its a pre-req for digital. Anyway i have yet to buy my camera and need help choosing the right one. Iv narrowed it down to either a Canon 50D or Nikon D90. 

Alot of people say these two arent meant to compete but they both have evenly priced package deals on ebay. I want to start to get into macro and nature type photography so im looking for beautiful COLOR, and if there is really a difference, a camera better suited for MACRO. 

I understand that the quality of the photo depends vastly on the photographer, however maybe one of these cameras has a more sophisticated RGB sensor or better lenses for macro. 

Im completely new to this so all input helps. Iv been unable to decide on these two cameras for a week and its driving me crazy. Iv heard mixed opinions on both, i just need to be persuaded one way or another. 

I plan on going down to best buy soon to play with both.    uggg....... im tired of comparing, hahah. 

Any input helps. Thanx


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## Derrel (Nov 5, 2009)

Better suited for macro? Clearly the answer there is Nikon, simply because Nikon has many,many more models of used macro lenses dating back to the 1960's, some of which are still superb performers, bellows, the 5T and 6T close-up filters,
inexpensive lens reversing rings, and most importantly, Nikon has ALL the accessories needed for even very sophisticated macro setups where you can take a simple,affordable lens like a used 200mm f/4 Ai for $79 and buy a $10 reversing ring,and mount a used 24mm on the front in reverse,and have an ultra-macro lens capable of shooting roughly 4.5x life-size, for under $250.

Seriously...the fact that Nikon lenses will work without expensive electronic lens reversers from Novoflex,and that Nikon has made many superb 55,60,105,and 200mm Micro-Nikkor lenses, over decades, puts Nikon significantly ahead of Canon when it comes to both simple "close-up" photography,and true macro work. Check out John Shaw's excellent guides to close-up and nature photography for insight into how capable even 20- and 30-year old Nikon equipment is for closeup and macro work.

I am not saying Canon is "bad" for macro work....just that the decison they made to drop ALL lens aperture rings 22 years ago has limited the ease of use and eliminated such things as the Nikon BR2 lens reversing ring which can turn almost any lens into a close-up lens--with aperture control. The EF mount was never designed with macro use in mind, but was seen as a bridge to the AF future.


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## bigtwinky (Nov 5, 2009)

You are right, it depends way more on the photographer than it does on the camera body.

It also depends way more on the LENS than the camera body.

Getting high end glass, getting good knowledge and practice are the 3 most important things when you start photography.

Both the D90 and 50D are very capable cameras and whichever you chose, I am sure you will be very happy with.

Things to consider:

- Both Nikon and Canon offer great high end lenses. Both are very capable. Don't let someone tell you that Nikon is better at portraits and Canon is better at sports type of thing.

- Do you know anyone with either a Nikon or Canon that you can borrow higher end lenses with? That might sway your decision somewhat

- When you are at the level you are in your decision, its alot about feel of the camera and menu more than anything else. Head to a store and handle both cameras. Shoot some images in store, but dont focus on the quality of the shots, focus more on the feel of the buttons, layout of the menu and so on.

- Both are CMOS sensors, both have 920,000 LCDs, both have similar sized sensors, both shoot raw.

- the Canon shoots faster frames per second (good for sports) and has slightly higher (not necessarily usable) ISO... the Nikon has movies.

So yeah, they are very similar. Don't get bogged down in the specs, play with them in store.

I would maybe not think about getting a full kit from ebay as the lenses that come with the cameras are often consumer grade. Ok to start, but most serious photographers will replace them somewhat quickly.

A great lens to look into is a 50mm f/1.8 lens.  Not a macro lens, but its a great image quality, low budget lens.


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## Machupicchu (Nov 5, 2009)

Thanx for the posts. Ya nikon was my first choice anyway, i heard somewhere that canon has better color but yet again thats mostly the photographer. Im headed to best but after work to play with both. Will post after i play


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## Machupicchu (Nov 5, 2009)

by the way, is it just Nikons wide selection of lenses that makes it better for macro, or is it something to do with actual internals?


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## Machupicchu (Nov 6, 2009)

Just got back from best buy. Iv eliminated both my options and decided just to put a bullet in my head haha, jk, but really, its frustrating. I wish these cameras could be combined into one with all the features.:er:

Anyway, after playing with both...... i like the canon(cringe).im just terrified of buyers remorse. im still in college so this is alot of money to me. 

Ups about the Canon-Nice stock lens-Easy menu-i have big hands and long fingers so i liked the size and feel of the canon, not to mention it was heavier which is a good thing in my opinion and it felt better put together. Iv heard they have good water seals. It just seemed way easier to use. 

Downs- After playing with it, could find none.

Ups about the Nikon-Although the menu was harder to use, i found the actual button layout easier to use. Thats about the only thing i found better after playing with it. 

Downs on Canon- I,v heard that lens compatibility with the Canons can be tough because they change their style every ten years.(but im sure theres some type of adapter right?)

Downs on Nikon-Crapy crapy crapy stock lens. I know that much about cameras yet but i could just tell this lens was crap. Also it was very small and light, which some might like but it just tells me its not built as well. 

I think im gonna go for the Canon, Now i just need to hear some more positive about the Canon so im sure, haha

Thanks for posts


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## PatrickHMS (Nov 6, 2009)

Why not buy a good USED camera, see if you like it, and if you like photography, then buy better once you really know what you want.

In most major cities with Craigslist, and anywhere with eBay, used camera bodies and kit lenses (both Canon and Nikon) are affordable and plentiful.

As a college student with limited funds, why spend $1,000.00 or more when you might find something you like for 1/2 that, or even less?

Just a suggestion.

I would never buy a new camera, there are way, WAY too many deals out there from people who spent too much, or bought more than they needed or could handle and now regret it, want to get some of their money back.

It is definitely a buyer's market - you CAN find what you like at a price you will be happy with.

Just a suggestion.


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## PatrickHMS (Nov 6, 2009)

Machupicchu said:


> Downs on Nikon-Crapy crapy crapy stock lens.


 
As for that crappy Nikon kit lens as you refer to it, it is inexpensive, feels light and plasticy, but you will be surprised at the image quality you will get out of that little lens.


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## musicaleCA (Nov 6, 2009)

Speaking of macro work, APS-C format cameras have a distinct advantage in this area, simply because they have greater DoF and you'll be able to get more light without suffering as much of a penalty. It's worth noting that macro can be scary because DoF can be reduced to (literally) zeronuffin, nadaif you're focusing really close and opening up your aperture too far. Smaller sensors can be a boon in such scenarios, where that extra bit of DoF is a good thing.


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## Machupicchu (Nov 6, 2009)

good point, ill try craigslist.

So which one of these is APS-C format, and if both, than which one is better?

By the way, i plan on getting the Camera from an ebay store called get it digital. They have 99.9 percent feedback, are featured on the ebay homepage, provide a phone number and website, and have awesome reviews, however i looked them up on google and found some complaints that people were recieving grey market cameras with no usa warranty. On the forum i found this on getitdigital actually replied stating that not all cameras they sell are under usa warranties, and that the people asumed it would be although not posted in the ad. The camera im looking at states its under USA warranty so hopefully its all good. 

Does anyone have any experience with getitdigital?

Thanks for posts.


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## bigtwinky (Nov 6, 2009)

No experience from them, but if they have good ratings, I would think them as safe as buying from someone on Craigslist.

All the cameras you listed are APS-C format.  This means that the sensor is smaller than a full frame camera, and thus cheaper.

Full frame cameras will usually start in the 2-3 thousand range.


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## Machupicchu (Nov 6, 2009)

ok i think there pretty safe too. Unless they faked 15000 feedbacks. Haha. dont you have to actually purchase something to leave feedback anyway?

Thanks for all the posts. Playing with the Cameras is what really did it for me. I really like the Canon. I know they switch up there lenses every so often but arent there adapters for that? And i dont have to buy Canon lenses. So i think im buyin the Canon tonight unless i see any awesome used deals, or some one can suede me back towards the Nikon haha.


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## bigtwinky (Nov 6, 2009)

I dont know how true the statement is that they change lenses every 10 years... they did once in the past (from what I know), but I doubt they do it every 10 years.

Either manufacturer is a great investment.  
Enjoy!


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## Flash Harry (Nov 6, 2009)

I'd buy body only and the lens separatley, kit lenses are never much cop, from any maker, I use nikons for all my work and can use any nikkor lens on my two nik bodies apart from really ancient glass so you can pick up some really cheap good glass, with canon its not going to happen, my older lens all work flawlessly. Oh and nikons colour is I feel more "true" than any other maker, I can always saturate in PS. H


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## Machupicchu (Nov 6, 2009)

The kit actually comes with a Canon 18-55 IS and a Canon 55-250 IS. There is alot of useless crap in the kit but for the same price as just the body at best buy, i get two Canon lenses


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## Gabriel (Nov 6, 2009)

I've had the 18-55 IS lens, and it's about as worthless as it gets. Some pretty severe distortion from the glass. I bought it for $200, tested it out, returned it the next day. I've heard Nikon's version is actually a lot better.

Have you tried B&H Photo Video | Digital Cameras, Camcorders? Best Buy marks up their products pretty badly, but I don't know what price the eBay seller is offering. Have a look at B&H, they are an ultra-reputable company with great selection and much better prices than most other places. And anything gray market is marked clearly as such.


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## Machupicchu (Nov 6, 2009)

So i did some poking around on google and guess what.....gititdigital is a scam!!  Awsome...... so now i have to look at other sites blehh.... I found a pretty good deal at adorama. ICA50DKA Canon EOS 50D Digital SLR Camera /Lens Kit Black , with EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM Standard Zoom Lens, 8GB CF Memory Card, Spare BP-511 Lithium-Ion Battery, Slinger Camera Bag , Digital Remote Release 
Is this a good and legit site? looks like it. thank you all


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## Gabriel (Nov 6, 2009)

Machupicchu said:


> So i did some poking around on google and guess what.....gititdigital is a scam!!  Awsome...... so now i have to look at other sites blehh.... I found a pretty good deal at adorama. ICA50DKA Canon EOS 50D Digital SLR Camera /Lens Kit Black , with EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM Standard Zoom Lens, 8GB CF Memory Card, Spare BP-511 Lithium-Ion Battery, Slinger Camera Bag , Digital Remote Release
> Is this a good and legit site? looks like it. thank you all



Adorama is another very well-trusted site, they've been around for a long time. I've bought from them before. 

Here's another site that could help you in your search, if you don't know it alreay: www.resellerratings.comhttp://www.resellrratings.com


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## chip (Nov 7, 2009)

I also vote for the Nikon D90 and a Nikon 105mm f2.8 micro VR lens. You will love the performance of the 105mm lens. That said, I just bought a Canon 100mm f2.8 macro IS lens and will check it out this weekend.


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## Photoform (Nov 7, 2009)

Machupicchu said:


> So i did some poking around on google and guess what.....gititdigital is a scam!!  Awsome...... so now i have to look at other sites blehh.... I found a pretty good deal at adorama. ICA50DKA Canon EOS 50D Digital SLR Camera /Lens Kit Black , with EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM Standard Zoom Lens, 8GB CF Memory Card, Spare BP-511 Lithium-Ion Battery, Slinger Camera Bag , Digital Remote Release
> Is this a good and legit site? looks like it. thank you all


How do you know gititdigital is a scam? I was just about to check them out after reading this thread lol. 15000 feedback on ebay seems good. Just curious....


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## Machupicchu (Nov 7, 2009)

I did some googling around. Check complaintsboard.com. they lay it out pretty good in there, getitdigital themselves actually left a reply in the forum defending themselves, folowed by a post by some random user also defending getitdigital, which was there only post on the site, and had joined the same day getitdigital left there post. I then actually found another forum of complaints about getitdigital and it looks like they pasted thier same defense in this forum too, also followed by some random user of a different name defending get it digital, also was there only post. seems kind of suspicious. Also, i called Canon and they said they had no such company as getitdigital on their authorized seller list, meaning the cameras were obtained some other way than from Canon. ALSO.....ya i did allot of research........ i checked the bbb and getitdigital, although listed as a business in brookland new york, was not assosiated with the better business bureau. I called the number provided in there business listing and it was not a 1 800, when i got through there was no "thank you for calling get it digital" it was just a regular guy answering his phone, said he didnt know what i was talking about. Also there is alot of stuff on google linking them with other scam companies which have gone down, apperently they change thier name and move shop when they start to get bad publisity. Sooooooo...... not gonna risk it. 

Anyway(lol), i desided to go with Adorama. 

The kit im purchasing comes with
-Canon EOS 50D Digital SLR Camera Body - EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM Lens - Eyecup Eb - Wide Neck Strap EW-EOS 50D - Video Cable VC-100 - USB Interface Cable IFC-200U - Battery Pack BP-511A - Battery Charger CG-580 - "Great Photography is Easy" Booklet and "Do More Macro" Booklet - EOS CD - Software Instruction Manual - Canon 1 Year Limited Warranty - 
8GB CF Memory Card, Spare BP-511 Lithium-Ion Battery - Slinger Camera Bag - Digital Remote Release
Adding
-Tripod
-UV/Lens protector filter
-Lens hood

What else should i get as a DSLR Beginner? Also, is 8gigs big for a 15mp Camera? About how many shots is that? 

tryin to keep it under 1500. im at about 1300 now.

Thanks


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## Gabriel (Nov 7, 2009)

Machupicchu said:


> I did some googling around. Check complaintsboard.com. they lay it out pretty good in there, getitdigital themselves actually left a reply in the forum defending themselves, folowed by a post by some random user also defending getitdigital, which was there only post on the site, and had joined the same day getitdigital left there post. I then actually found another forum of complaints about getitdigital and it looks like they pasted thier same defense in this forum too, also followed by some random user of a different name defending get it digital, also was there only post. seems kind of suspicious. Also, i called Canon and they said they had no such company as getitdigital on their authorized seller list, meaning the cameras were obtained some other way than from Canon. ALSO.....ya i did allot of research........ i checked the bbb and getitdigital, although listed as a business in brookland new york, was not assosiated with the better business bureau. I called the number provided in there business listing and it was not a 1 800, when i got through there was no "thank you for calling get it digital" it was just a regular guy answering his phone, said he didnt know what i was talking about. Also there is alot of stuff on google linking them with other scam companies which have gone down, apperently they change thier name and move shop when they start to get bad publisity. Sooooooo...... not gonna risk it.
> 
> Anyway(lol), i desided to go with Adorama.
> 
> ...



Kudos for doing all the right research. Lots of fake companies coming out of NY like this one. 

That sounds like a good kit, though you'll soon be wanting a proper wide-angle prime or zoom (I have a 17-85 IS lens that I love). 28mm on a "crop-sensor" body like the 50D is not all too wide. But that's an excellent kit to start with, and the lens is quality and has plenty of range to get you going.


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## UUilliam (Nov 7, 2009)

I Say save yourself money and buy a USED Canon 20D with a Sigma 70-300mm MACRO lens


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## Machupicchu (Nov 7, 2009)

After playing with the cameras, the Canon just felt right. I hear thats one of the most important things to look for in a camera is the comfort and the feel of the button layout. After researching i concluded that they were just about equal, so i went with the one that felt better.

I plan on getting a Macro and a wide angle for Landscape and nature stuff, tis what im interested in but for now im gonna take it slow and learn my way around the camera. I thougt the lens was pretty cool cuz it had a big range(28-135). But does that list sound good for a beginner? I want to have the necessities. Also, is 8 gigs enough, and about how many pictures is that?(15mp)


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## chip (Nov 8, 2009)

The 28-135mm is an EF lens, not a good range for a 1.6x body. 28 x 1.6 = 45mm. That is a normal lens! You will wish for a wider lens often. I know this is often Canon's kit lens for their 1.6x crop frame bodies, but it makes no sense. I would much rather have their 15-85mm EF-S lens for a 1.6x body.


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## Machupicchu (Nov 8, 2009)

Im sure ill get into new lenses pretty quickly. I gotta learn it for now. What does EF mean? by the way, and 1.6 crop? Sry im noobish. haha. For future reference, what is a good wide angle, and also a good macro for this type of camera and why? I plan on doing lots of nature, landscapes maybe, and macro is what i really want to get into. Plus lighting is something i didn't get with my order. I figured i should learn more and take it slow. What type of lighting is best for macro work?


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## chip (Nov 9, 2009)

Machupicchu said:


> Im sure ill get into new lenses pretty quickly. I gotta learn it for now. What does EF mean? by the way, and 1.6 crop? Sry im noobish. haha. For future reference, what is a good wide angle, and also a good macro for this type of camera and why? I plan on doing lots of nature, landscapes maybe, and macro is what i really want to get into. Plus lighting is something i didn't get with my order. I figured i should learn more and take it slow. What type of lighting is best for macro work?



Canon 50D or Nikon D90 are both crop frame sensor cameras. Crop frame means the size of the sensor is smaller than a 35mm frame. The D90 has a 1.5x crop factor and the Canon has a 1.6x crop factor. 
           Canon Rebel (APS-C)
         26.82mm
         22.3mm x 14.9mm
         1.61
             Nikon DX (APS-C)
         28.40mm
         23.6mm x 15.8mm
         1.52
        Say you were to buy a Canon 50D. That's a crop frame camera. Canon has two groups of lenses right now, EF and EF-S. EF lenses are designed for full frame cameras but can also be used on a crop frame camera such as a 50D or Rebel. The EF-S lenses are designed only for the crop frame cameras. You cannot mount a EF-S lens on a full frame body. If you want a general purpose stay-on lens for a 50D I would suggest a EF-S 15-85mm IS lens. If you want a wide angle lens Canon has a EF-S 10-22mm. If you want a macro lens I would suggest the 100mm 2.8L IS macro lens. Just remember to multiply the focal length by 1.6 for a 50D.


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