# Upgrade to a 5d mk 2?



## poker_jake (Jan 7, 2012)

I want to upgrade to a 5d Mk 2 from my 60d, but there are a few things that worry me:
1. The 9 cross type af in the 60d vs the 1 in the 5d mk 2
2. No built in flash
3. Slower continuous shooting

But I think the full frame sensor trumps all of those, what are your thoughts?

I mainly shoot airshows, landscapes, and sports.


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## gsgary (Jan 7, 2012)

For what you shoot you are looking at the wrong camera, if you shoot studio and landscape 5D will be great


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## CanonEOS (Jan 7, 2012)

It don't matter what camera you own they all do the same (Take pictures) upgrading to a 5D don't make you a better photographer than a 60D owner


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## Nikon_Josh (Jan 7, 2012)

poker_jake said:


> I want to upgrade to a 5d Mk 2 from my 60d, but there are a few things that worry me:
> 1. The 9 cross type af in the 60d vs the 1 in the 5d mk 2
> 2. No built in flash
> 3. Slower continuous shooting
> ...



Gary is right, your looking at the wrong camera for airshows and sports. A) You will lose the crop factor of the 60D and B) The 5D has poor autofocus as has been mentioned on numerous occasions on this forum.


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## poker_jake (Jan 7, 2012)

CanonEOS said:
			
		

> It don't matter what camera you own they all do the same (Take pictures) upgrading to a 5D don't make you a better photographer than a 60D owner



Obviously


I want to make the jump to full frame but might have to wait, thanks all


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## analog.universe (Jan 7, 2012)

I agree, for your type of photography a 7D makes more sense than a 5D at that level...  if you really want full frame it would be a 1D.


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## poker_jake (Jan 7, 2012)

analog.universe said:
			
		

> I agree, for your type of photography a 7D makes more sense than a 5D at that level...  if you really want full frame it would be a 1D.



Thanks, I'm thinking of buying a 7d and giving the 60d to my wife. A 1d would be nice but out of my price range


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## CanonEOS (Jan 7, 2012)

The 1D and the 7D are camera bricks and heavy most people today choose light weight DSLR cameras but it's your choice.


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## poker_jake (Jan 7, 2012)

CanonEOS said:
			
		

> The 1D and the 7D are camera bricks and heavy most people today choose light weight DSLR cameras but it's your choice.



A few ounces are not going to matter, thanks though


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## gsgary (Jan 7, 2012)

analog.universe said:


> I agree, for your type of photography a 7D makes more sense than a 5D at that level...  if you really want full frame it would be a 1D.



You mean 1DS, 1D is 1.3x


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## gsgary (Jan 7, 2012)

CanonEOS said:


> The 1D and the 7D are camera bricks and heavy most people today choose light weight DSLR cameras but it's your choice.



They are if you are limp wristed, i carry 2x 1D's 300mmF2.8L around a FEI cross country course no problem and sometime add a 5D


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## analog.universe (Jan 7, 2012)

gsgary said:


> analog.universe said:
> 
> 
> > I agree, for your type of photography a 7D makes more sense than a 5D at that level...  if you really want full frame it would be a 1D.
> ...



True, the 1Dx would work as well (when it comes out).... I kinda just meant 1Dwhatever.


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## CanonEOS (Jan 7, 2012)

gsgary said:


> CanonEOS said:
> 
> 
> > The 1D and the 7D are camera bricks and heavy most people today choose light weight DSLR cameras but it's your choice.
> ...



A camera is just a tool and it don't make you look any more professional  to have the biggest camera and all the lenses, in your hand or around your neck. i call people who do this (Know it alls)


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## gsgary (Jan 7, 2012)

CanonEOS said:


> gsgary said:
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> > CanonEOS said:
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I'm a know it all who can also shoot  i'd like to see you shoot what i shoot with a 50F1.8


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## GeorgieGirl (Jan 7, 2012)

CanonEOS said:


> gsgary said:
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> > CanonEOS said:
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I have a 7D and so far its not been a magic bullet...I might know more than I did yesterday, but I certainly don't know it all. I don't really think anyone does.


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## poker_jake (Jan 7, 2012)

CanonEOS said:
			
		

> A camera is just a tool and it don't make you look any more professional  to have the biggest camera and all the lenses, in your hand or around your neck. i call people who do this (Know it alls)



Then you might as well use a disposable camera


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## Robin Usagani (Jan 7, 2012)

The thing that you will miss the most is the 1.6X crop factor when you shoot airshows.  Yeah, 5D II AF needs a lot of improvement, but that doesnt mean you wont get good shot.  I think your sport photos will improve significantly if it was indoor sport.


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## poker_jake (Jan 7, 2012)

I've also been looking into the Nikon d7000, just seems like the full frames out there don't have what I'm looking for unless I want to shell out a lot of money.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Jan 7, 2012)

CanonEOS said:


> It don't matter what camera you own they all do the same (Take pictures) upgrading to a 5D don't make you a better photographer than a 60D owner



:roll:

 No, simply owning a pro grade camera won't make you better.

But answer me this. Why do pros buy the pro gear instead of saving thousands of dollars and use Canon Rebel XSi's and consumer grade glass? Hmmmm? After all, as you say, they take pictures.


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## CanonEOS (Jan 8, 2012)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> CanonEOS said:
> 
> 
> > It don't matter what camera you own they all do the same (Take pictures) upgrading to a 5D don't make you a better photographer than a 60D owner
> ...



Professional photographers photograph to make money. 
They use whatever cameras make them the most money. The less expensive the camera,the better.


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## Robin Usagani (Jan 8, 2012)

You keep digging your self into a deeper hole.



CanonEOS said:


> Bitter Jeweler said:
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> > CanonEOS said:
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## Derrel (Jan 8, 2012)

Most people haver never owned and used a true professional-level camera. The difference in performance, reliability, price, and weight between a true professional-level camera and an introductory-level or intermediate-level model camera is pretty significant. The 5D and 5D Mark II are basically fairly unusual cameras: based around a roughly $389 EOS Elan film body design, with almost ZERO advanced body features and zero advanced sub-systems, the 5D and 5D-II have offered Canon's "compact, light weight, low-cost full frame option". A cheap to produce, very simplified camera body, fitted with an excellent sensor. No remote flash command system. Color-blind light metering. A truly bare-bones control layout. Very minimal customization of controls and settings (does not have for example Banks A,B,C,and D with all banks independently pre-programmable,for example). Simplified autofocus system.

There are situations where a "pro-level body" makes getting the required kind of photographs fairly easy, and where a slowish, lower-end camera body can have some hesitations and focusing failures that make the camera not "bad", but simply un-reliable, or not-dependable, on a shot after shot after shot, hours-long session basis. People saying a better camera will not make you a better photographer...you know, that is actually not 100 percent true, through and through...that's more of a cliche than an actual real-world fact. When confronted with a CHALLENGING SET of circumstances, the world's better cameras are actually significantly better tools in terms of being able to GET THE SHOT WITH ALMOST CERTAINTY. That's the difference between shooting a pro Nikon or a pro-level Canon body, and a mid-level body, which is what the 5D-II is at most...:"a mid-level body, with a fantastic SENSOR,and a good but not great autofocus system."

For many situations that are not demanding ones, the superior sensor performance and light weight and affordable price of the 5D-II is a totally winning combination,and one used by many Canon pros who want Canon's "lightweight, affordable, low-cost full-frame option".


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## CanonEOS (Jan 8, 2012)

Schwettylens said:


> You keep digging your self into a deeper hole.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How can i keep digging myself into a deeper hole i was ask a question so i answer it, i found this information on a DSLR learning dvd about the (Camera Myths)


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## GeorgieGirl (Jan 8, 2012)

You took that DVD too literally. Here, you are speaking with seasoned shooters and camera experts and they are telling you that you have mistunderstood the message the DVD was suggesting if that is what you now beleive to be true.


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## EchoingWhisper (Jan 8, 2012)

Buy a D4!


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## CanonEOS (Jan 8, 2012)

GeorgieGirl said:


> You took that DVD too literally. Here, you are speaking with seasoned shooters and camera experts and they are telling you that you have mistunderstood the message the DVD was suggesting if that is what you now beleive to be true.



Oh my what did i do this get message from you?

I was ask this question 
No, simply owning a pro grade camera won't make you better.

But answer me this. Why do pros buy the pro gear instead of saving thousands of dollars and use Canon Rebel XSi's and consumer grade glass? Hmmmm? After all, as you say, they take pictures.         

I reply with this

Professional photographers photograph to make money. 
They use whatever cameras make them the most money. The less expensive the camera,the better


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## poker_jake (Jan 8, 2012)

No offense CanonEOS but none of your responses have answered my question. According to your responses one is better sticking with the camera on their phone or even a disposable camera.



CanonEOS said:


> It don't matter what camera you own they all do  the same (Take pictures) upgrading to a 5D don't make you a better  photographer than a 60D owner





CanonEOS said:


> The  1D and the 7D are camera bricks and heavy most people today choose  light weight DSLR cameras but it's your choice.





CanonEOS said:


> A  camera is just a tool and it don't make you look any more professional   to have the biggest camera and all the lenses, in your hand or around  your neck. i call people who do this (Know it alls)


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## Bitter Jeweler (Jan 8, 2012)

CanonEOS said:


> GeorgieGirl said:
> 
> 
> > You took that DVD too literally. Here, you are speaking with seasoned shooters and camera experts and they are telling you that you have mistunderstood the message the DVD was suggesting if that is what you now beleive to be true.
> ...



How many real pros shoot with an XSi? Why don't they?


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## GeorgieGirl (Jan 8, 2012)

CanonEOS said:


> GeorgieGirl said:
> 
> 
> > You took that DVD too literally. Here, you are speaking with seasoned shooters and camera experts and they are telling you that you have mistunderstood the message the DVD was suggesting if that is what you now beleive to be true.
> ...



There are many photoraphers who shoot with prograde cameras and who do not use that camera to 'make money'. And from what I have seen over time, the non-money makers can be even better photgrpahers than the 'money makers'. I suspect that there may be some differences of opinion between you and I as a result of cultural demographics.

A camera is a tool and like knives for cooking, there are all kinds and types. Will using a professional knife make me a professional chef? No. But it is a tool for me to use to accomplish something in particular that I want to accomplish that I might not be able to accomplish without the use of a specialized and refined tool.

I don't make money from cooking and I don't make money from photos, but I choose my tools carefully as I can accomplish more with proper choice of tools than without.


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## subscuck (Jan 8, 2012)

A young man realizes he has an aptitude for sculpting. He buys a set of inexpensive, yet decent tools. The more he sculpts, the better his finished products become. Inevitably, his quality peaks and plateaus. He realizes he needs better tools. His tools require adjustment to technique as they dull, the edge geometry makes certain tasks more difficult, etc. He researches tools and finds a set of better quality, and also contains tools tailored to certain tasks. His work now requires less effort, his tools stay sharp longer, and with the added tools, he can perform tasks that weren't possible before. The final quality of his work improves dramatically. It's far more refined and detailed. He actually begins selling a little bit of his work here and there. But, alas, he plateaus again. He begins researching the sculptors he admires, those he considers masters of their craft. He learns what tools they use. Finally, he takes the wallet emptying plunge and invests in the tools they use. Now with tools of superior materials, manufacture and design, his work again takes a leap forward. With every hammer stroke, he knows exactly how the tool will behave. He works with an efficiency and confidence he's never known before. He's doing work with the refinement and detail he's dreamed of. His work is now being shown and sold in galleries. He's earned the status of a master at his craft.

So, did the tools make him a better sculptor? Of course not. They did something far more important; they allowed him to use his skill set to it's full potential. Cameras are like that.

Adieu


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## Destin (Jan 8, 2012)

gsgary said:


> CanonEOS said:
> 
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> > gsgary said:
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Yepp, alot of the time in sports the only way you're getting a photo is with a couple of fast super-telephoto primes that weight more than you do lol


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## Destin (Jan 8, 2012)

subscuck said:


> A young man realizes he has an aptitude for sculpting. He buys a set of inexpensive, yet decent tools. The more he sculpts, the better his finished products become. Inevitably, his quality peaks and plateaus. He realizes he needs better tools. His tools require adjustment to technique as they dull, the edge geometry makes certain tasks more difficult, etc. He researches tools and finds a set of better quality, and also contains tools tailored to certain tasks. His work now requires less effort, his tools stay sharp longer, and with the added tools, he can perform tasks that weren't possible before. The final quality of his work improves dramatically. It's far more refined and detailed. He actually begins selling a little bit of his work here and there. But, alas, he plateaus again. He begins researching the sculptors he admires, those he considers masters of their craft. He learns what tools they use. Finally, he takes the wallet emptying plunge and invests in the tools they use. Now with tools of superior materials, manufacture and design, his work again takes a leap forward. With every hammer stroke, he knows exactly how the tool will behave. He works with an efficiency and confidence he's never known before. He's doing work with the refinement and detail he's dreamed of. His work is now being shown and sold in galleries. He's earned the status of a master at his craft.
> 
> So, did the tools make him a better sculptor? Of course not. They did something far more important; they allowed him to use his skill set to it's full potential. Cameras are like that.
> 
> Adieu



This is a GREAT analogy.


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## D.Page (Jan 9, 2012)

I think that the 7D is probably better, overall, for your requirements. I have the 5D Mk II myself. It is a great camera and suits by requirements. I mainly photograph landscapes and portraiture, and I have no real need for fast continuous shooting, or a built-in flash (I have a Speedlite 580EXII for any indoor portraiture work). The 7D, on the other hand, has faster continuous shooting capabilities, and has the built-in flash you require. The 1 cross-type AF of the 5D MkII is perfectly fine for my purposes, but the 7D has 19 so, again, no concerns there. I'd go for the 7D, if I were you, as long as you don't mind not having a full-frame sensor.


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## poker_jake (Jan 9, 2012)

D.Page said:
			
		

> I think that the 7D is probably better, overall, for your requirements. I have the 5D Mk II myself. It is a great camera and suits by requirements. I have no real need for fast continuous shooting, or a built in flash. The 1 cross-type AF of the 5D MkII is perfectly fine for my purposes, but the 7D has 19 so, again, no concerns there. I'd go for the 7D if I were you.



Thanks, but the d7000 gas caught my attention also


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## D.Page (Jan 9, 2012)

Ah, yes - the D7000. I just wonder whether you have already accumulated a lot of Canon accessories while having your 60D (and any previous Canon models), which can also be used with any new Canon DSLR you may decide to upgrade to. If not, then, of course, it is entirely sensible to 'jump ship' to Nikon, if they have a DSLR which suits you best. Be aware, though, that the D7000 does not have a full-frame sensor (I'm sure you already know this).


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## poker_jake (Jan 9, 2012)

D.Page said:
			
		

> Ah, yes - the D7000. I just wonder whether you have already accumulated a lot of Canon accessories while having your 60D (and any previous Canon models), which can also be used with any new Canon DSLR you may decide to upgrade to. If not, then, of course, it is entirely sensible to 'jump ship' to Nikon, if they have a DSLR which suits you best. Be aware, though, that the D7000 does not have a full-frame sensor (I'm sure you already know this).



Actually nothing yet, I was thinking of buying 24-70mm L and 70-200mm f2.8 L glass, that's what got me thinking of a new body instead.


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## Destin (Jan 9, 2012)

poker_jake said:


> D.Page said:
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Bro, the 60d is new. It's a great little camera. It really is. Slap some pro L glass on it and it will give you amazing results. I vote you get the lenses. Glass makes a WAY bigger difference than the body ever will.


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## D.Page (Jan 9, 2012)

If you're contemplating a couple of 'L'-series lenses, you are obviously looking for a "serious" DSLR. Maybe the 5D Mk II is your best bet, after all (full-frame 21.1 MP sensor). With this kind of resolution, the limiting factor becomes the quality of the optics you are using with it. Any 'L'-series lens will enable you to best utilise this high resolution for optimum image quality. It can shoot very near to 4 frames per second, is that fast enough for you? The only area of 'concern' for you would be the single cross-type AF point only. It's a dilemma, isn't it !
Let me know if you want any further info regarding the 5D Mk II. I'm blown away by it, myself. Whatever model of camera you get, it is very difficult to get EVERY single feature you are after (unless you spend mega-bucks on a top-end pro-spec model). It just depends if you can live with a single cross-type AF point only. Something like the Speedlite 270 EXII is essentially very similar in performance to a built-in flash, it's obviously just not as convienient to have to carry it around with you and attach it every time you want to use it.


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## poker_jake (Jan 9, 2012)

D.Page said:
			
		

> If you're contemplating a couple of 'L'-series lenses, you are obviously looking for a "serious" DSLR. Maybe the 5D Mk II is your best bet, after all (full-frame 21.1 MP sensor). With this kind of resolution, the limiting factor becomes the quality of the optics you are using with it. Any 'L'-series lens will utilise this high resolution DSLR to its optimum image quality. It can shoot very near to 4 frames per second, is that fast enough for you? The only area of 'concern' for you would be the single cross-type AF point only. It's a dilemma, isn't it !
> Let me know if you want any further info regarding the 5D Mk II. I'm blown away by it, myself. Whatever model of camera you get, it is very difficult to get EVERY single feature you are after (unless you spend mega-bucks on a top-end pro-spec model). It just depends if you can live with a single cross-type AF point only. Something like the Speedlight 270 EXII is essentially very similar in performance to a built-in flash, it's obviously just not as convienient to have to carry it around with you and attach it every time you want to use it.



Now I'm leaning more towards the L lenses and will look at the 5d mk 3 or similar products when they are released


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## D.Page (Jan 9, 2012)

OK. If you begin to find the 5D Mk II an attractive prospect, once again, and need further help or info, let me know.


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## boofoo502 (Jan 9, 2012)

I have a good friend that shoots with the 7000 great camera but it just doesn't fit me right. I suggest going and handling some and not just going off reviews or online chatter.
Now this would just be my .02. If you're going to keep the 60d in the family stay canon. It gives you a backup body that can use the same glass in case something unforeseen happens to your main body. 
Only you can answer weather the jump to full frame will benefit you or weather staying on a crop sensor makes more sense.


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## Crollo (Mar 27, 2012)

CanonEOS said:


> It don't matter what camera you own they all do the same (Take pictures) upgrading to a 5D don't make you a better photographer than a 60D owner





CanonEOS said:


> The 1D and the 7D are camera bricks and heavy most people today choose light weight DSLR cameras but it's your choice.





CanonEOS said:


> A camera is just a tool and it don't make you look any more professional  to have the biggest camera and all the lenses, in your hand or around your neck. i call people who do this (Know it alls)



I see, so people who use heavy big equipment are tools and people who use tiny plastic consumer crap are smarter and more professional? Idiot.



> Most people haver never owned and used a true professional-level camera. The difference in performance, reliability, price, and weight between a true professional-level camera and an introductory-level or intermediate-level model camera is pretty significant.



I guess I'm fortunate to own a professional grade DSLR, albiet a really old DSLR.


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## Hereindallas (Mar 27, 2012)

poker_jake said:


> analog.universe said:
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I have the 7D and love it.  Personally I don't find it to be to heavy.....until you put a grip on it then it is a brick.


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