# Project 365 - day 20 - Woman



## Benjo255 (Jan 20, 2015)




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## W.Y.Photo (Jan 20, 2015)

I'm not a fan of this image. While the subject is interesting the image doesn't grab my attention enough to keep me looking. If this were in a book it would be one of those images I looked at and almost immediately turned the page to find something else.

I think you shot this too tight. A wide angle lens with a view of the street and some buildings would have made this image a whole lot more interesting. I do this all too much myself. Usually an image is great when the subject is isolated from the environment, but sometimes, like in this case, an interesting background can make the image that much better.


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## Dagwood56 (Jan 20, 2015)

I actually like this because of the content. I find it interesting and amusing that despite the obvious wet weather, the woman is going to the trouble of dumping some type of liquid down the storm drain. Nice catch.


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## kdthomas (Jan 20, 2015)

While I like the reflections in the wet pavement, and the almost delicate pose of the woman (particularly the arrangement of her feet, and the way she grips the bottle), I don't care much for the bright white area at the upper left of the frame, and in a general sense ... I guess I'm not sure what story this image is telling to me. The mystery of what it is she's pouring out is a little pleasing to me, but I can't get an answer to it by looking at the image.

BTW I also like the way the straight lines in the grate contrast with the smudgy reflections in the wet street.

Also FWIW I applaud you for the discipline to get out & shoot every day


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## spiralout462 (Jan 20, 2015)

I found myself gazing at this one for quite a while.  I like the "peep" into the store door and the texture of the wet pavement.  I also love the irony!


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## Benjo255 (Jan 20, 2015)

Thank you everybody for the feedback. I personally don't love this image...but some days The best you've got is not what you wish. It's difficult to express how important your critics are for me and i can say, without doubts, that Being criticized on this forum has been one of The main factor in improving in my photography.   





kdthomas said:


> While I like the reflections in the wet...
> 
> Also FWIW I applaud you for the discipline to get out & shoot every day


Thank you (sometimes i don't go out. Just looking for something interesting in The house). I would suggest to everybody to try a 365 project. It really helps. 



spiralout462 said:


> I found myself gazing at this one for quite a while.  I like the "peep" into the store door and the texture of the wet pavement.  I also love the irony!


Thank you. I was close to a column in a spot where people passed from a roofed/covered area to The outdoor raining. I guessed interesting things could happen and...here we are.
PS: another shot with both eyes open. One for The evf and The other for Being aware of what was happening. I can say this really works for me in street photography (see my "hug" photo).


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## timbo59 (Jan 22, 2015)

A poet once wrote that it isn't the business of the poet to seek publication, but merely to write. The meaning of course was that the notion of writing with a view to a garnering approval from a publisher - or readers for that matter - would colour the work. It's not too dissimilar to one of the basis tenets of quantum physics, that the very act of observation alters the outcome.

With all due respect, does it really matter what others think of your work? You could put up lesser known images by Man Ray, Cartier-Bresson, Adams, Weston, Strand, White, etc and doubtless you'd receive a number of responses from the unwitting rendering unfavourable views - that's just human nature. Not that long ago someone set out to make a point about artistic assessment by sending an extract from Joyce's _Ulysses_ to various publishers under the guise of being a new author seeking publication, and with all but 2 - 3 exceptions none recognized the writing nor took up the opportunity to publish the 'new' author.

While it's always useful at times to receive a constructive assessment of your work from someone who's views you respect and trust, ultimately you really have to stay true to yourself, hone your talent with practice, and continue to study the work of those you admire. Once you get to a certain point in your development you'll 'know' if something works or not. If you start worrying too much about what others may say you'll end up tailoring your images to please them (or to deflect criticism) and end up losing your own photographic identity.


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## W.Y.Photo (Jan 22, 2015)

timbo59 said:


> A poet once wrote that it isn't the business of the poet to seek publication, but merely to write. The meaning of course was that the notion of writing with a view to a garnering approval from a publisher - or readers for that matter - would colour the work. It's not too dissimilar to one of the basis tenets of quantum physics, that the very act of observation alters the outcome.
> 
> With all due respect, does it really matter what others think of your work? You could put up lesser known images by Man Ray, Cartier-Bresson, Adams, Weston, Strand, White, etc and doubtless you'd receive a number of responses from the unwitting rendering unfavourable views - that's just human nature. Not that long ago someone set out to make a point about artistic assessment by sending an extract from Joyce's _Ulysses_ to various publishers under the guise of being a new author seeking publication, and with all but 2 - 3 exceptions none recognized the writing nor took up the opportunity to publish the 'new' author.
> 
> While it's always useful at times to receive a constructive assessment of your work from someone who's views you respect and trust, ultimately you really have to stay true to yourself, hone your talent with practice, and continue to study the work of those you admire. Once you get to a certain point in your development you'll 'know' if something works or not. If you start worrying too much about what others may say you'll end up tailoring your images to please them (or to deflect criticism) and end up losing your own photographic identity.



I like what you're getting at with this. Its a very true statement and an artist should always hold onto their artistic identity. That's why many of the great artists are known for not only producing work everyone loves but also for "breaking the rules" or going their own way.

In response to your question though.. Yes. Yes it does matter what people think of your work. Not because you should be making the work for them or for your own satisfaction in making something people like; but simply because others opinions can help you realize things that you would like to improve in your own work. It doesn't have to be about them for their opinion to be useful or helpful.

So, to ensure I'm not being misunderstood.. It doesn't matter what people think if the work is complete and meaningful to you, however, what people think matters because it can help you realize your own potential as an artist, it can help you realize ways to improve, and it can help you see ways to communicate your ideas more effectively.

I think one of the most important things for an artist is to know when and how to receive criticism without taking that criticism personally enough so that it compromises their vision.


Maybe that question was rhetorical, but I felt like answering it anyways


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## Benjo255 (Jan 22, 2015)

timbo59 said:


> With all due respect, does it really matter what others think of your work? You could put up lesser known images by Man Ray, Cartier-Bresson, Adams, Weston, Strand, White, etc and doubtless you'd receive a number of responses from the unwitting rendering unfavourable views - that's just human nature. Not that long ago someone set out to make a point about artistic assessment by sending an extract from Joyce's _Ulysses_ to various publishers under the guise of being a new author seeking publication, and with all but 2 - 3 exceptions none recognized the writing nor took up the opportunity to publish the 'new' author.



The critics on this forum never gave me the value of my photographies. It'a not the purpose I registered here and it's not the purpose I ask for C&C. As W.Y. Photo said, feedbacks are important to me because they give me different point of views. Sometimes I follow the suggestions, sometimes I keep the original photo. Sometimes I think "god, it's true! How did I miss that!" sometimes I think "Yeah sure, think whatever you want I'm convinced this is my masterpiece". An artist has to follow his/her heart, but Man Ray, Cartier-Bresson, Adams and others always shared their shots with their contemporary colleagues, because they were wise enough to understand that without confrontation and comparison, an artist risks to be only self-relating and loses the opportunity to learn A LOT. Probably if internet was existing at their times, they would have shared on the web too.



timbo59 said:


> While it's always useful at times to receive a constructive assessment of your work from someone who's views you respect and trust, ultimately you really have to stay true to yourself, hone your talent with practice, and continue to study the work of those you admire. Once you get to a certain point in your development you'll 'know' if something works or not. If you start worrying too much about what others may say you'll end up tailoring your images to please them (or to deflect criticism) and end up losing your own photographic identity.



I don't "worry too much" about what other may say, but I really care when somebody answers. And don't tailor my images to please them or to deflect criticism. But I am aware that Rick or Ken or W.Y.Photo or someone else while could do more pleasant things, they spent time on the keyboad for commenting my photos and that's why I say thank you.
I just like to GROW UP and sharing/critiques/comments are some between the best ways to get an external point of view. 

Beside that, you could really copy/paste your comment after the pictures of EACH member of this forum, because everybody shares the photo also because is pleasant that somebody else takes time to give you help and feedback. That said, you comment comes after my "thank you" statement, so I am curios what in my post gave you this idea.


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## W.Y.Photo (Jan 22, 2015)

Benjo255 said:


> Beside that, you could really copy/paste your comment after the pictures of EACH member of this forum, because everybody shares the photo also because is pleasant that somebody else takes time to give you help and feedback. That said, you comment comes after my "thank you" statement, so I am curios what in my post gave you this idea.



I Agree with Ben, Timbo, it does seem an oddly out of context comment.. though its an interesting subject. Perhaps a Thread on the subject of critique would give you a better conversation?


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## W.Y.Photo (Jan 22, 2015)

Does anyone else want to see what this photo would look like in color? I'm pretty curious.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Benjo255 (Jan 23, 2015)




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## W.Y.Photo (Jan 23, 2015)

Well, Black and white was the right choice.

There are some interesting things going on with the color version in terms of the contrasting colors as well as the isolation of the subject becoming more apparent, however, there's no sense of balance with them so I get why you decided to go grayscale. 

I'm a lot less distracted by the shop window in the color version as well, perhaps toning that down a bit in the grayscale would help.


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## bribrius (Jan 23, 2015)

Benjo255 said:


> View attachment 93867


i think i might like the color than the bw. The bw seemed to be trying to hard to make it interesting. while this is still not extremely great, the color brings more life to the frame.  two cents, may not get you far.


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## kdthomas (Jan 23, 2015)

bribrius said:


> Benjo255 said:
> 
> 
> > View attachment 93867
> ...



In the color version, I find the warm yellow colors on the left are a really nice offset to the cool blue colors on the right.  In fact there's patch of yellow above the woman's head in the blue part, and a patch of blue reflected in the yellow part near her feet. This seems like a really balanced image. I very much prefer the color version. Well done!


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## pixmedic (Jan 23, 2015)

Oy Gevalt....

lets keep things on topic please, and leave the insults and thinly veiled hostile insinuations off the forum.


OP, since you have your profile set to "OK" to edit photos, i took a stab at it.
personally, I saw this one as too "big". I liked the B&W conversion, and I liked the right side of the frame with the pavers being visible. i just think its too much foreground. so....a quick 16x10 (16x9 was juuuust not quite enough)

on a related note, sometimes its nice to post work and get comments for no other reason that to just know that someone is actually looking. 







anyway...
everybody better play nice in here or I will dispatch some TPF holiday passes to the next offending party.


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## Benjo255 (Jan 23, 2015)

Funny thing is that I really hate this image, but a committment is a committment and my project 365 forces me to publish one photo a day (and I'm happy this way). Of course, despite the fact I put my efforts on doing my best each day, some day are better than others. For that day this was still the best I could do and so I published it, no matter what. I perfectly understand (also without C&C) when a photo of mine is good or not and while I apreciate that someone could find it interesting, I feel this image is not that interesting to me, especially because it doesn't match the idea I had in my mind when the woman was coming into the frame. Watching it in color...well...it is better, but the project was BW and F/8, so...that's it.

That said...for me this is not a jury and it's not a gotha of experts by whose counseling I'll become the next Cartier-Bresson. It's just a web forum with people who shares the same passion for photography, people who may have differet minds, have different backgrounds, ideas, bias, levels. It's OK. I'm not here to submit myself as a photographer to a value judgment, moral strokes, apreciation for free, I'm not fishing for compliments.

I'm just here to share photos, share opinions and different points of view. And I feel free to do the same with your photos, sure as I am that honest comparison and confrontation is the best way to grow up.

PS: the first person I show my new photographs to get a feedback is my grandmother. She doesn't know who Cartier-Bresson and Salgado are and I think she's not even able to really press the shutter release button or shoot a photograph on focus. That's why I ask for her feedback first. To get a feedback from someone who doesn't have any bias or photograph background. That's a total different and indeed useful point of view. That's what I am looking for.

I won't return on this thread again.


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## W.Y.Photo (Jan 23, 2015)

Benjo255 said:


> Funny thing is that I really hate this image, but a committment is a committment and my project 365 forces me to publish one photo a day (and I'm happy this way). Of course, despite the fact I put my efforts on doing my best each day, some day are better than others. For that day this was still the best I could do and so I published it, no matter what. I perfectly understand (also without C&C) when a photo of mine is good or not and while I apreciate that someone could find it interesting, I feel this image is not that interesting to me, especially because it doesn't match the idea I had in my mind when the woman was coming into the frame. Watching it in color...well...it is better, but the project was BW and F/8, so...that's it.
> 
> That said...for me this is not a jury and it's not a gotha of experts by whose counseling I'll become the next Cartier-Bresson. It's just a web forum with people who shares the same passion for photography, people who may have differet minds, have different backgrounds, ideas, bias, levels. It's OK. I'm not here to submit myself as a photographer to a value judgment, moral strokes, apreciation for free, I'm not fishing for compliments.
> 
> ...



That's beautiful.


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## kdthomas (Jan 23, 2015)

This reminds me  of something similar I've sort of realized, for lack of a better term ... when I realized I liked the color image better, I stepped back and tried to think of why, and I recalled some of Ken Rockwell's writings about composition, that it should stand out as initially pleasing even as an out-of-focus thumbnail, and should click geometrically. And I think that image does that ... On the left we had a big yellow area with a little blue and on the right a big blue area with a little bit of yellow. A bright yellow spot upper left (which I don't care for in the BW), dark blue lower right.

At any rate, I agreed, I'm done with this thread, setting to unwatch. Terrific image, benjo ... keep bringing more!


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## e.rose (Jan 23, 2015)

It's like... *almost* there, but not quite.

I like the B&W version, for sure.

I feel like I want to see at least a profile of her face, and I have no idea what's in her hand. If I could see both of those, I think it would make it stronger.


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