# Some new photos that I took tonight while out and about. C&C Welcome. Thank You



## photo guy (Dec 21, 2011)

I took these three photos of houses and yards decorated while out and about tonight. I welcome C&C on these.  Thank You.

#s 1 & 2 are of the same house, it just took 2 photos to get the whole display photographed.  #3 is a shot I took showing how this was 1 of 3 houses in a row decorated in a neighborhood.


1.



2.



3.


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## photo guy (Dec 22, 2011)

I take it no one liked these photos?


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## Bitter Jeweler (Dec 22, 2011)

If these were posted by someone else, how would you critique them?


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## Juice (Dec 23, 2011)

The problem is that these photos are so bad that people can't really tell if you are indeed that bad at photography and don't realize it, or you are trolling, and they don't want to waste their time responding. If you are the former; you need to start learning the basics of photography. Begin by reading up on common things like exposure and composition, for example. If you are the latter; **** off.

The first two are blurry, and the 3rd is off in the distance somewhere.


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## MTVision (Dec 23, 2011)

Not being mean or anything but they are kind of boring. If it was a picture of your house I'd just consider them a snapshot. The decorated house might look cool when you look at it but you have to put some effort in it to make it interesting as a photograph. As it is now they are a little fuzzy, no composition and a whole lot of black. Do something different instead of taking the shot straight on. I see decorated trees/houses like that all the time (this time of year) - use different angles, try out some of the compositional rules to make it more interesting. Show us something different, something we don't normally see.


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## Ballistics (Dec 23, 2011)

Juice said:


> The problem is that these photos are so bad that people can't really tell if you are indeed that bad at photography and don't realize it, or you are trolling, and they don't want to waste their time responding. If you are the former; you need to start learning the basics of photography. Begin by reading up on common things like exposure and composition, for example. If you are the latter; **** off.
> 
> The first two are blurry, and the 3rd is off in the distance somewhere.



Unacceptable. You need to get a grip.


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## Juice (Dec 23, 2011)

Sorry, I don't sugar coat.


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## Ballistics (Dec 23, 2011)

Juice said:


> Sorry, I don't sugar coat.



That's not a lack of a sugar coating, that's confrontational d-baggery. 
There's a difference between being straight forward, and just being offensive and immature. 
If you are an adult, you should be able to tell the difference.


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## RichardsTPF (Dec 23, 2011)

Cool Christmas lighting dec.
when you take pictures, think about these:
what's your subject? too many dark space there.
what did you focus at? the light or the house.
Which metering mode did you use? spot or others
Did you use a tripod?


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## Juice (Dec 23, 2011)

Take it for what you will, you're free to do so. I believe in tough love. I told him his photos were crap, then I told him what to do about it. 

If you praise people for posting crap, they will keep producing it. If you put them out of the bounds of their comfort zone, they will be more likely to produce better results faster.


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## Ballistics (Dec 23, 2011)

Juice said:


> Take it for what you will, you're free to do so. I believe in tough love. I told him his photos were crap, then I told him what to do about it.
> 
> If you praise people for posting crap, they will keep producing it. If you put them out of the bounds of their comfort zone, they will be more likely to produce better results faster.



I'm all about tough love myself. But that's not tough love. That's a recipe for getting someones guard up. 

These are no good, try this vs you either don't realize how bad you are or you are a troll theyre blurry and the third is off in the distance.

I fail to understand why people think that verbally trashing people is synonymous with tough love or constructive criticism. This isn't boot camp, it's a public beginner's forum.
Saying insulting things does not motivate people to do better, it motivates people to not take you seriously.

No one is telling you to praise the guy either.


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## Juice (Dec 23, 2011)

Well I am military, so that's what you're going to get. If they are too soft skinned and get their guard up, that's their problem for not wanting to learn. If you're going to sit there and defend your mediocre results, then you never really wanted to learn anything anyway, you were just trying to fish for praise on such a great job of capturing garbage. I would like to weed those people out, and focus on those who truly want to learn this hobby.


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## Ballistics (Dec 23, 2011)

Juice said:


> Well I am military, so that's what you're going to get.



No, it has nothing to do with it. I'm recently honorably discharged Navy (5 years), and this type of "tough love" wouldn't fly in the military. Pride and professionalism is what is preached, and you are demonstrating the exact opposite.


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## Juice (Dec 23, 2011)

I disagree, but I'm not going to argue semantics with someone over the internet. You are welcome to your opinion, and I am welcome to my confrontational and douche bag posts, as you so aptly put it. If you feel my posts are violating the TOA, you can report them.


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## Kbarredo (Dec 23, 2011)

Ballistics said:


> Juice said:
> 
> 
> > Well I am military, so that's what you're going to get.
> ...


 So I take it the military trains men to be dbags now. You are very right ballistics. There is a difference between constructive criticism and douche baggery. His comment was douche baggery. Dont blame the military on your unconstructive rudeness. Blame it on your parents.
My grandfather was in the military. He fought against the japanese. He was a very kind soft spoken man. Never raised his voice or his hands. The military's tough love is an excuse not a reason.
TC the problem with your pics are that they are kind of boring. You are showing us views and angles that we are used to seeing. Next time get right in there and take close shots. Or here is a cool idea. Set it on a long exposure and run up the street as you take the picture. You wont know that its christmas lights, but it will look cool.
A lot of the time when you photograph inatimate objects, you want to show people angles that you dont see normally.


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## Overread (Dec 23, 2011)

I would like to remind members that the forums are open to photographers of all levels of skill and to all ages. Furthermore this is the beginners section of the site, and thus one should expect to see photos taken by those who are new or who have less experience with photography. It is not the place of members to hound each other nor throw random insults (either personal or directed at each others photography).

This is not about sugar coating, but it is about moderating ones tone and choice of language as to remain respectful whilst remaining suitably critical and supporting that critical viewpoint with constructive input. 

That said this argument is now over, no more posts regarding it and lets get back to the photos themselves.


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## jake337 (Dec 23, 2011)

Poor OP. Not for the photos you took but for what this turned into. Get yourelf a tripod if your interested in night photograhy. Check your camera's manual to see how much manual control you have over the photos. If you do have manual controls of at least aperture/shutterspeed, you should then research night photography. Also read up on exposure and how it works.

If it were me in your position I would:  

1)Set camera on tripod.
2)Set up your composition.
3)Set exposure for the ligts you want, take exposure.
4)Set exposure for the houses you want, take exposure.
5)Set exposure for the trees you want, take exposure.
6)Set exposure for the sky you want, take exposure.
7)Set exposure for the snow you want, take exposure.
8)Combine in post and have fun.


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## KmH (Dec 23, 2011)

I merged your 2 photos. The focus is soft and the white balance is off. I made no image corrections.


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## photo guy (Dec 23, 2011)

Thank you MTVision. I used my Kodak P&S this time for the photo instead of my larger Fuji.  I will try that next time.  Happy Holidays


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## photo guy (Dec 23, 2011)

To: RichardsTPF

I used my Kodak P&S with No tripod  I was trying to show how these few houses and yards were decorated.  Thank You


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## photo guy (Dec 23, 2011)

To jake337

I have a tripod and chose not to use it this time with this camera to see how it these would turn out as I don't use this camera much at night


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## photo guy (Dec 23, 2011)

Thank You KmH.  I thought about getting out my other camera and doing a panoramic but chose to not to and see what would turn out as so I can learn.  Thank You for the merge as it looks nice


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## Bitter Jeweler (Dec 23, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> *If these were posted by someone else, how would you critique them?*


.


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## photo guy (Dec 23, 2011)

Thank You Overread for the help on that issue (rude remarks and bashing). I am getting sick of it.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Dec 23, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> *If these were posted by someone else, how would you critique them?*


.


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## Ballistics (Dec 23, 2011)

Bitter, it's as if you have something you want to ask?


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## bazooka (Dec 23, 2011)

Seriously, I'm with BJ.  I want to hear YOUR critique of these images.  That would give us a place to start.  Why do you like or dislike them specifically?


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## thereyougo! (Dec 23, 2011)

My tuppence worth.  Photo Guy you were advised on the last shoot to shoot earlier as the sun was setting or within half hour. That way you don't have so much dark space. You need to have some colour in the sky to make these shots work. Majority of the shot has to have detail. My advice: Have tripodShoot earlier with some sunset colours far more potential


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## photo guy (Dec 23, 2011)

I did not get out at sunset as I was busy at that time.  When I do get out at sunset to get some photos at that time I will post them with a specific labeling.  Sometime I carry my tripod with me and other times I don't.  It depends on what I am doing or where I am going.  I took some sunset photos (no christmas lights, just sunset) the other day but did not have my tripod with me as I was with a relative.  At least I took my cameras with me. If wanted, I will post some of those. Thanks


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## bentcountershaft (Dec 23, 2011)

Why is what you think about your own photos a secret?


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## thereyougo! (Dec 23, 2011)

photo guy said:


> I did not get out at sunset as I was busy at that time.  When I do get out at sunset to get some photos at that time I will post them with a specific labeling.  Sometime I carry my tripod with me and other times I don't.  It depends on what I am doing or where I am going.  I took some sunset photos (no christmas lights, just sunset) the other day but did not have my tripod with me as I was with a relative.  At least I took my cameras with me. If wanted, I will post some of those. Thanks



I'll be honest. Not brutally so but without using a tripod nighttime shots will never come out. They will always look blurry. Some shots work in darkness these won't as there is so much sky. With this much sky you need some detail in the sky. Without these two you won't make any progress.  So shoot with a tripod AND shoot around sunset.  I've taken shots in darkness that work. They would work even better at twilight with some colour still in the sky.


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## photo guy (Dec 23, 2011)

To bentcountershaft: Some of my photos are great, some are nice, some are nice and others need work.  Does this help you.  Next time I post photos, I will include my opinion on each one posted if that would help.


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## bentcountershaft (Dec 23, 2011)

Why wait until next time?  There's no time like the present.


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## Majeed Badizadegan (Dec 23, 2011)

photo guy said:


> To jake337
> 
> *I have a tripod and chose not to use it *this time with this camera to see how it these would turn out as I don't use this camera much at night



When you are shooting at long shutter speeds there is *no choice.*


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## Bitter Jeweler (Dec 23, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> Bitter Jeweler said:
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> > *If these were posted by someone else, how would you critique them?*
> ...



*sigh*


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## photo guy (Dec 23, 2011)

To bentcountershaft:  I am not going to go back through the current ones posted just to judge them now with many members mad. I will start with the next ones that I post, which won't happen until people cool off.  I do have a few night shots that I took without a tripod that are better than the christmas lights but I won't post them since people don't like my fire shots. (I took the photos while it was dark out up until sunrise last month at a fire scene with it snowing out)  I like them more than the new christmas light photos due to the lighting and weather issues worked nice for some nice photos but won't post them since I will just get grilled about posting those types of photos.  I have shot more night photos this year than last and each time was different lighting conditions and circumstances, but I feel that there is quite a lot of improvement to be had still so that is why I posted what I have done already. Thank You.


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## thereyougo! (Dec 23, 2011)

Let me perfectly honest with you. A few months ago I had a high view of my own photos. I didn't realise I was in a rut. It took people telling me quite firmly on another forum that what I was producing wasn't photography. They were nice snapshots but there was nothing original in them and there wasn't enough thought. It wasn't what I wanted to hear but it was what I needed to hear and learn from. Since then my photography has really grown a fact acknowledged my previous critics. I don't want to be cruel or unkind but you really need to put far more thought into your shots. You need to ask why you are shooting a certain composition why you're using certain settings and what you are aiming to achieve in a given shot. At the moment you need to think a lot before you press the shutter and only post what you consider to be your best here.


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## c.cloudwalker (Dec 23, 2011)

2 1/2-3 pages later, all I can say is 

*If these were posted by someone else, how would you critique them?*

Answer the darn question!


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## jake337 (Dec 23, 2011)

Rotanimod said:


> photo guy said:
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Unless he's using flash and dragging the shutter of course.  But in this case, I would think there would be no other choice.


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## Kbarredo (Dec 23, 2011)

jake337 said:


> Rotanimod said:
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 What Im wondering is, wouldnt the lights be overexposed if he exposed for the house? I think a different time of day might be better as well.


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## bazooka (Dec 23, 2011)

photo guy said:


> I will start with the next ones that I post, which won't happen until people cool off....
> 
> ...but I won't post them since people don't like my fire shots.
> 
> ...but won't post them since I will just get grilled about posting those types of photos.



This is just a pity party man. Do you want to improve your photography or do you want people to feel sorry for you? Your choice. You know good and well the SUBJECT MATTER of your photos is NOT why people are critical of them.


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## jake337 (Dec 23, 2011)

Kbarredo said:


> jake337 said:
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> > Rotanimod said:
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I was suggesting manual bracketing photos.  Exposing the areas you want exposed, how you want them exposed.  Then merging the photos in post.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Dec 23, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> If these were posted by someone else, how would you critique them?


 


Bitter Jeweler said:


> Bitter Jeweler said:
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> > *If these were posted by someone else, how would you critique them?*
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Bitter Jeweler said:


> Bitter Jeweler said:
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> > *If these were posted by someone else, how would you critique them?*
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Bitter Jeweler said:


> Bitter Jeweler said:
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> > *If these were posted by someone else, how would you critique them?*
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Why wait till next time.

You came here for critique. I asked you a very valid question. Why can't you answer it now, in THIS thread, about THESE images you posted for critique?

I mean, why pass up a learning experience?


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## Kbarredo (Dec 23, 2011)

jake337 said:


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 Yes very true. but since this guy is new im not sure if he would know how to do it.


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## MTVision (Dec 23, 2011)

Kbarredo said:
			
		

> Yes very true. but since this guy is new im not sure if he would know how to do it.





			
				photo guy said:
			
		

> I am now going to only use the Beginners since I get more response there even though I have been doing photography for over 2 years now.



From what he says - he's not all that new


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## thereyougo! (Dec 23, 2011)

Kbarredo said:


> jake337 said:
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I personally think that the biggest problem isn't that Photo Guy is a beginner. I'm not sure he knows what standard he is at. If he thinks he can take photographs of light displays without a tripod then he clearly needs to learn very much indeed about how exposure works before he even starts considering composition. We've all been there. You just get exposure working ok and then you start getting composition working and then this means that then you have to get exposure right in relation to the composition. You always have to adjust. This means lots of trial and error. The problem comes in realising what error is. That involves admitting that it is an error. Until that admission you will not learn anything and therefore not move forward. We all go through tho stage and it's the most challenging aspect for any of us.


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## thereyougo! (Dec 23, 2011)

MTVision said:


> Kbarredo said:
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I love your new avatar - Your point is well made as usual and demonstrates that you can do things for years and yet learn very little until you're pushed in the right direction.  If someone does something wrong for years without learning something then it matters not how long they have been doing it. Experience is everything but experience isn't decided by time but by what lessons you learn.


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## Kbarredo (Dec 23, 2011)

thereyougo! said:


> MTVision said:
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> > Kbarredo said:
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 Like what my martial art instructor always said. " Its better to practice something right once than practice it wrong a thousand times".
The first time I had my pics c c I was pretty hurt. Then I read an article that said never to "own" your photos. Look at them as if they are someone elses. Only through self criticism and perseverance will you get better.


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## MTVision (Dec 23, 2011)

Phot guy - I emptied my mailbox so I can get messages now!


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## GeorgieGirl (Dec 23, 2011)

photo guy said:


> I took these three photos of houses and yards decorated while out and about tonight. I welcome C&C on these.  Thank You.
> 
> #s 1 & 2 are of the same house, it just took 2 photos to get the whole display photographed.  #3 is a shot I took showing how this was 1 of 3 houses in a row decorated in a neighborhood.
> 
> ...



Hopefully by now you have some good idea about the impressions of these photos, and on a postive note this is a good place to start to evaluate what is there and what you actualy want to accomplish. There is still time to go and walk about again with some new approaches. My add would be to work with your ISO, you can take some shots without a tripod by boosting ISO or even using your automobile as a stable surface if you decide to try it again; possible go with both approaches and work it out by trial and error to see what you think ends up giving you the best results. Its practice. And for these sorts of shots, they are usually better visions in the mind's eye than one that can be duplicated in the camera's.


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## manaheim (Dec 23, 2011)

oh ok... now i understand why all the ire in the other thread.


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## GeorgieGirl (Dec 23, 2011)

....and they say girls are emmotional....


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## bentcountershaft (Dec 23, 2011)

I feel compelled to ask, if you aren't going to make any effort to tell us what you like and don't like about your photos why in the hell do you think any one else here should?


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## blackrose89 (Dec 23, 2011)

I can understand in this instance why the OP is upset. I normally find it very infantile when people whine about the negative feedback. But in this case ( if I'm not mistaken) he was apprehensive about posting these photos in the first place. And we all said "go for it" then he was bombarded with mean spirited negativity in the first page. Sooo although I don't condone people becoming defensive and whining when people are only trying to help, in this case I can understand it'd be a little disheartening when you were afraid to let your guard down and when you do you get mostly negativity. Just sayin.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Dec 23, 2011)

He was also asked a question at the third post that has yet to be answered.
The question is not rude.
The question is not mean spirited.
The question is not snarky.
The question has been ignored.

Just sayin'


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## TMBPhotography (Dec 23, 2011)

I fail to understand why people think that verbally trashing people is synonymous with tough love or constructive criticism. This isn't boot camp said:
			
		

> YES! YES! YES! FINALLY, someone comes out and says what I've been thinking since I joined here. I am a noob so my word holds no weight. but yes, if you talk down to someone who knows nothing of photography and is just coming here to learn by  being rude to them, isnt going to make want to continue doing it. Yes, some might not be good at it but thats not for us to decide. He or she needs to decide for themselves if its something they love to do.


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## Overread (Dec 23, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> He was also asked a question at the third post that has yet to be answered.
> The question is not rude.
> The question is not mean spirited.
> The question is not snarky.
> ...



Maybe its then time to respect the OP's choice and not press the issue about the question any further. For better or for worse there is no point badgering the OP if they have already made a firm choice in this regard.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Dec 23, 2011)

You call it badgering, I call it ample opportunity to actually engage the OP in discussion about the images. But in true forum form, it's more interesting to discuss negative comments innit. Might as well close this one down then, right?


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## Ballistics (Dec 23, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> Bitter Jeweler said:
> 
> 
> > *If these were posted by someone else, how would you critique them?*
> ...



How about you stop beating around the bush and ask the damn question already! Jeez!:lmao:


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## photo guy (Dec 23, 2011)

To bentcountershaft: In one of my first posts to this site (the fire photo that was published in the paper), I did give my opinion of that photo and ended up with a lot of negative feedback and now people are asking me to do the same again so I can continue to get nasty remarks.  I will not post any new photos until I feel like things have subsided with the really rude remarks and bashing. I don't mind polite remarks or criticism as long as it doen't turn nasty like it has been lately.


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## photo guy (Dec 23, 2011)

To Bitter_Jeweler: the reason why I didn't reply to it is that you are one of the people who I consider to have been rude on numerous responses to me that were not too helpful but I felt as bashing me for the work I did.  I will still read posts people put up and give my C&C for people but I will not post any more of my photos for C&C or even just to show my work until things start to change for the better around here. Thank You.


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## Kbarredo (Dec 23, 2011)

photo guy said:


> To bentcountershaft: In one of my first posts to this site (the fire photo that was published in the paper), I did give my opinion of that photo and ended up with a lot of negative feedback and now people are asking me to do the same again so I can continue to get nasty remarks.  I will not post any new photos until I feel like things have subsided with the really rude remarks and bashing. I don't mind polite remarks or criticism as long as it doen't turn nasty like it has been lately.


 No need to worry about it bud. Ive had my fair share of butting heads on this forum. I say re try the shot and show us what you really got.


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## blackrose89 (Dec 23, 2011)

photo guy said:


> To bentcountershaft: In one of my first posts to this site (the fire photo that was published in the paper), I did give my opinion of that photo and ended up with a lot of negative feedback and now people are asking me to do the same again so I can continue to get nasty remarks.  I will not post any new photos until I feel like things have subsided with the really rude remarks and bashing. I don't mind polite remarks or criticism as long as it doen't turn nasty like it has been lately.


One positive I can say is I don't find people carrying over negativity from one thread to the next. I'll get complete rudeness and bashing in one post, and then post another thread a few minutes later and get more even toned responses. I don't think you really need a "cooling off" period.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Dec 23, 2011)

photo guy said:


> To Bitter_Jeweler: the reason why I didn't reply to it is that you are one of the people who I consider to have been rude on numerous responses to me that were not too helpful but I felt as bashing me for the work I did.  I will still read posts people put up and give my C&C for people but I will not post any more of my photos for C&C or even just to show my work until things start to change for the better around here. Thank You.



Please post examples of where I bashed your work. You can't.  Because I haven't.


But you are right, I was rude to post the link to the thread that shows you how to post photos on the forum 5 times.


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## Ballistics (Dec 23, 2011)

photo guy said:


> To Bitter_Jeweler: the reason why I didn't reply to it is that you are one of the people who I consider to have been rude on numerous responses to me that were not too helpful but I felt as bashing me for the work I did.  I will still read posts people put up and give my C&C for people but I will not post any more of my photos for C&C or even just to show my work until things start to change for the better around here. Thank You.



Ohhh stop it. 

This is the classic "Fine! I'm taking my ball and going home" response. You had 1 person give unnecessary insulting remarks and it was rectified. 
You have to understand, there are people on this forum that are monotonous, but have a vast knowledge and are actually WILLING to help.
You have to be willing to weed through the BS to actually get it. This is a free forum, and if you think about it, you have the ability to get
hundreds of years of experienced direction and instruction for nothing. Don't worry about the packaging, just know that you are getting awesome 
information for nothing. 

I agree, there are people that could use a social skills class, but usually they are rude to people who deserve it. Sometimes you will get that one person
who is arrogant for no reason, but it gets dealt with. You just have to be a little less sensitive, accept that your pictures need work, and accept the 
information given. Sometimes it's great, other times it's not, but stick around and you will soon be the person giving good advice.  

I'm not trying to kiss anyone's ass either, but most people take places like this for granted. I know for a fact, my work has benefited from most of these
a-holes on here and I'm not afraid to give credit to where it's due. But also recognize the fact that I am an advocate of common courtesy, photo guy.
The a-holes that give me advice, also hear about it if they say anything disrespectful. But don't mistake "These are no good" or "These are boring" for disrespect. 
C&C is not like having a conversation with some guy you just met in person where it's fake small talk.  It's raw, dry, to the point direction. 

So suck it up, get some C&C, learn from it, and take more pictures.

My 3 dollars worth. PM me for a receipt.


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## cgipson1 (Dec 24, 2011)

OP needs to realize.. the best way to not get negative critique, is to not post photos that deserve negative critique, and then expect positive critique. 

When you post good stuff, people will say so.. when you post crap, people will say so. Not posting pics at all.. well, you either don't want to learn.. or you just don't want to hear any negative critique. In which case, I would suggest sticking to Facebook! I am sure they love your "work"!


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## LightSpeed (Dec 24, 2011)

photo guy said:


> To Bitter_Jeweler: the reason why I didn't reply to it is that you are one of the people who I consider to have been rude on numerous responses to me that were not too helpful but I felt as bashing me *for the work I did*.  I will still read posts people put up and give my C&C for people but *I will not post any more of my photos for C&C or even just to show my work until things start to change* for the better around here. Thank You.



Oh good god.
You think you're the only person he's been rude to?
Look at his name. He's bitter. What do you expect?
You mean to tell me you're going to let that stop you?

*For the work you did?*
You pushed a button. Without basic understanding of what you were doing.


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## thereyougo! (Dec 24, 2011)

The problem is, Photo Guy, that you posted similar pictures before and were given genuinely constructive criticism.  It was suggested to you that you shoot earlier while there was still colour in the sky.  When challenged about this, you came up with lots of excuses why you couldn't.  I'm not sure whether you understand why the pictures you put up before had major issues.  Lots and lots of black space. Taking them again in the same way will not change this.  If you are using any kind of point and shoot camera without a bulb setting then you should nearly never take shots when it is completely dark.  It means there is no detail to look at and also, a fully automatic camera will expose for the whole scene which is why all these photos look distant.  

We want you to make progress.  But you won't make progress until you learn from your mistakes.  The first part of the process is accepting that they are mistakes.  If you are to take photographs from the end of the afternoon on, you MUST use a tripod or else there is no point pushing the shutter.  Any camera can take great shots be it P&S or DSLR.  But you have to give it the opportunity to show what it can do.  At the moment you are holding its arms behind its back by shooting too late and by shooting without using a tripod.  

Finally you're more likely to get sarcastic comments here if what you post shows that you haven't listened to what people have suggested.  If you think that their previous CC is wrong, say so. But prepare to be challenged.


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## Kerbouchard (Dec 24, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> He was also asked a question at the third post that has yet to be answered.
> The question is not rude.
> The question is not mean spirited.
> The question is not snarky.
> ...


The question should be ignored.  It _is_ mean spirited.  It _is_ snarky.  And it _is _rude.  Perhaps, the first time it wasn't.  The remaining times it definitely was.

Your question doesn't need to be asked multiple times.  The OP chose to ignore you and you were already warned by a moderator.  Why do you persist?

In any case, no, the photos aren't great.  The OP shot with a P&S without a tripod at night.  These results are to be expected in those conditions.  It really wouldn't matter who pushed the shutter release under those circumstances.  They would most likely turn out the same.

Instead of repetitively asking a stupid question, you could have given the OP some advice...Instead, you chose to be snarky, rude, and mean spirited...in other words, your usual self.

To take successful shots in these conditions require a tripod and some thoughts on composition.  Also, as has been mentioned, taking the shots slightly earlier(about 30 minutes after sunset) would be easier and would most likely have better results.


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## thereyougo! (Dec 24, 2011)

blackrose89 said:


> I can understand in this instance why the OP is upset. I normally find it very infantile when people whine about the negative feedback. But in this case ( if I'm not mistaken) he was apprehensive about posting these photos in the first place. And we all said "go for it" then he was bombarded with mean spirited negativity in the first page. Sooo although I don't condone people becoming defensive and whining when people are only trying to help, in this case I can understand it'd be a little disheartening when you were afraid to let your guard down and when you do you get mostly negativity. Just sayin.



Genuinely no disrespect intended, but there was only one person that specifically asked him to post them and that was you.  I feared it would turn out like this which is why I said that if he wanted to post them then he should.  I took the post as him saying that he would post as long as people were nice about his photos.  He has a tendency to take criticism personally.  If someone can't be objective about their photos they shouldn't post them in a photographer's forum.  If however they actually do want to learn they need to take the risk of having their work shot down as they may learn something.

I would rather hear something that I need to hear than I want to hear. It's more useful.


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## bazooka (Dec 24, 2011)

Kerbouchard said:


> To take successful shots in these conditions require a tripod and some thoughts on composition. Also, as has been mentioned, taking the shots slightly earlier(about 30 minutes after sunset) would be easier and would most likely have better results.



Which is exactly the advice we all gave him in his first post of Christmas lights.  He took noones advice and posted this one requesting more C&C.  What's the point in giving advice if it isn't taken?


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## GeorgieGirl (Dec 24, 2011)

OMG!

I think Bitter's point was well taken and I for one appreciated it. Apparently it did not slow the OP down for one minute to STOP AND THINK. And the simple question of Why do you think we should help you if you don't help yourself was appropriate to this forum which is about feedback and ACTIONS STEPS  to improve.

But for those stubborn little shooters who want to continue to hang on to their crying towels and say he was being mean to me, this one's for you:

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/general-gallery/262984-misheles-coddling-critique-thread.html


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## thereyougo! (Dec 24, 2011)

If people post photos here for appreciation, they are always likely to be disappointed. I believe that you should only critique if you yourself are prepared to be critiqued.  Shooting in pitch dark conditions, I would have had results not dissimilar to Photo Guy's had I left my Pentax 645D on program mode (I only recently figured out even to do this!).  

What qualifies us to critique other people's work?  Our own 'brilliance'? No, although the better our own shots are, the more credibility we have. I think the single most important thing is that when we judge other people's work, we are just as good at sucking it up as we expect others to be.  I have learned a lot from receiving firmly constructive criticism and initially I was very defensive, but then I figured it out and changed things.  I still shoot crap sometimes, but I'm better at filtering it out and asking myself whether the shot works....

Sometimes the shot will work for you when it doesn't for others, and that's fine.  There are some rules though and amongst them are exposing correctly and composition.  They are interwoven and integral to each other.  PhotoGuy, this is what you need to learn.  Try and find the manual settings for your best camera.  Most importantly, shoot at the right time of day.  That was one of my most important lessons and one of the things that changed my photography for the better.  

You have two choices:

1/ Go off and sulk in a corner and refuse to show your photos any more - if you do that, then I think it would be best if you didn't critique other people's work - if you aren't prepared for yours to be critiqued then I don't believe you should critique other people's work.  

OR

2/ Sit down and listen to what people have said and read and read about exposure and composition.  When you have learned some more, post back and show us your progress.  You can either sit back and sulk or get off your backside and prove people wrong.  

I'd like you to pick No. 2. If you choose no 1 then that's fine too, but please have the decency not to judge other people's work.  I may be a little old fashioned but I believe that you should not judge unless you yourself are prepared to be judged.


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## photo guy (Dec 24, 2011)

To cgipson1:  *I DO NOT HAVE A FACEBOOK PAGE YET SO DON'T GO THERE WITH THIS*


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## thereyougo! (Dec 24, 2011)

photo guy said:


> To cgipson1:  *I DO NOT HAVE A FACEBOOK PAGE YET SO DON'T GO THERE WITH THIS*



I rather suspect it was a slightly tongue in cheek comment, so try not to take things so personally.  Learn to love tough criticism (which of course should remain respectful) as it is the only way any of us learn things.


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## photo guy (Dec 24, 2011)

I have seen how suddenly everyone is now more polite about this. I will post some new photos after the holidays when I have a bunch more instead of just a few more.


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## thereyougo! (Dec 24, 2011)

photo guy said:


> I have seen how suddenly everyone is now more polite about this. I will post some new photos after the holidays when I have a bunch more instead of just a few more.



Good.  

Before you take the photos, do some preparation. 

If they are outside, scout your location in advance and plan your composition. Also look at it at the same time as you plan to shoot.  

Shoot around dawn or sunset for the best colours in the sky and the best light overall.  Shooting at this time will give you longer shadows which will give you better depth to your shots.  You will end up with longer shooting speeds, so take your tripod and use it.  I have decided against using a tripod and regretted it.  I handheld a shot at 1/13 and although it was pretty sharp, it wasn't pin sharp and I had to use higher ISO than I would have had to use had I been using a tripod.

Learn your best camera inside out.  Find out what controls you can use manually and learn how to use them in the most creative way.

When shooting, think about your subject.  What is your subject and would what you see in your viewfinder/LCD screen be obvious to anyone as being the subject.  If not, recompose and start again.  You can always crop in post, but it's ALWAYS better to get it right in camera.  I sometimes crop in post but I have 40mp to play with, although it's not just image size you have to consider but focus accuracy and sharpness and also perspective.  

There is so much to think of before you press the shutter. Get it right and it will be very satisfying.  But you will get it wrong many times before you get it right.  But that is fine, that's how we all learn.  And that is why when you post here, you need to have an open mind and be prepared to take it on the chin.  Forums are a great resource and you do come across the odd rude person.  Look beyond the rudeness to see what it is they are actually saying, sometimes there is gold beyond the screen.  Take criticism personally and you will get hurt, throw up a wall and get defensive and learn nothing.  Be objective with your work (which was what Bitter Jeweler was really asking you to do) and ask yourself honestly what you think of the shot if you saw it in a gallery for sale.  Would you buy it? If not why not.  There will nearly always be a reason why you wouldn't.  Those are what you need to work on.


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## thereyougo! (Dec 24, 2011)

Oh, and don't be frightened of asking questions on here. yes you will get the odd sarcastic comment but it's better to ask when you don't know rather than act like you do when you don't have a clue.  There are lots of helpful people here who will help as long as you show some signs of taking notice.  One or two of them have posted in this thread.  Megan in particular is incredibly helpful, and I don't know how she finds the time.  

The one thing that does annoy me in this forum is when people don't ask for help, they ask for someone to do it for them rather than learn how to do it themselves.  I'm always tempted to tell them to sling their hook...


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## vtf (Dec 24, 2011)

Really guys, I am gone for a day or two and here we are again? Cool! I love a good knock down, dirt kicked in face, dragged down the street critigue! Carry on. :lmao: ibtl


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## GreatPhotoRace (Dec 24, 2011)

Take is a step further and set up a tripod. There's no way you can keep your hands steady enough to get an image of quality. Once you can get the lights motionless, then you can worry about creativity.


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## alejandrophoto (Dec 24, 2011)

I'm sure the images would nicer, if you try again on a tripod. choose a focus. Use the rule of thirds. Take a photo at something like 16" of a second. Don't let criticism discourage you just get up and keep adjusting your camera settings and trying different things. Good luck!!


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## photo guy (Dec 24, 2011)

Thank you for the positive remarks alejandrophoto. I will be doing a lot of photographing this weekend. I have a family gathering today that kicks off my photos this weekend.


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## photo guy (Dec 24, 2011)

Thank you GreatPhotoRace.  Sometimes I do not or can not use a tripod when doing my photos depending on what I am photograping.  I will try using the tripod this weekend.  I know I will also try out my monopod more this weekend as it helped tons when I photographed an event in October.


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## Crollo (Dec 25, 2011)

Rotanimod said:


> photo guy said:
> 
> 
> > To jake337
> ...



I went to the firing range and chose not to load my firearm with ammunition.


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## cgipson1 (Dec 25, 2011)

Crollo said:


> Rotanimod said:
> 
> 
> > photo guy said:
> ...



Bet you didn't hit any targets, either!   For sure, no Bulleyes!  lol!


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## tlamour (Dec 30, 2011)

bazooka said:


> photo guy said:
> 
> 
> > I will start with the next ones that I post, which won't happen until people cool off....
> ...



You gave photo guy a link in a previous thread. If he read it, he would know what to do to improve shooting Christmas lights. If he didn't read it, repost it for him. it was pretty informative.


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## cgipson1 (Dec 31, 2011)

tlamour said:


> bazooka said:
> 
> 
> > photo guy said:
> ...



I couldn't find the one Bazooka posted..but I think it was the first one of these:

Strobist: How to Photograph Christmas Lights

16 Digital Photography Tips for Christmas

How to Photograph Christmas Lights and Other Holiday Events

Christmas Photography: How to Photograph Christmas Lights

How to Photograph Christmas Lights and Decorations | Beginners Photography Blog


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## rexbobcat (Dec 31, 2011)

I think it's just the fact that everyone has gone out of their way to give advice, but the OP isn't keen on taking the advice. From my impression, y'all can give all of the constructive criticism y'all want, but it probably won't help. That's just my observation.

Now....

The first two are very blurry. If you used a tripod, I would highly recommend a remote shutter release to reduce shake. Also...you say that these two photos are of the same house, and you took two to show the whole house? Why not make them into a panorama? Put the photos together to create a wide photo that shows the house entirely. Photoshop has a GREAT tool for this, and there are dedicated programs for it as well.

You can also solve the "too much black space" problem with this....

You are using a lens that is too wide when you want to show the whole house. I mean, yes, you get the whole house in the picture, but it's so small that you don't really show much detail. If you make a panorama using a longer lens, then you can get the whole house in the frame while minimizing empty space.


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## photo guy (Dec 31, 2011)

my cameras do not have the option for a remote shutter.  Yes, it is the same house. No, I do not own Photoshop due to cost and my finances due to a slow down with work right now.  I do not own large cameras.  Again, I own and use a Fuji FinePix S1500 10mp w/ 12 optical and a Kodak EasyShare M530 12mp w/ 3 optical.  These are not capable of remote use with them, the self timer feature is the closest with these).


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## MTVision (Dec 31, 2011)

photo guy said:
			
		

> my cameras do not have the option for a remote shutter.  Yes, it is the same house. No, I do not own Photoshop due to cost and my finances due to a slow down with work right now.  I do not own large cameras.  Again, I own and use a Fuji FinePix S1500 10mp w/ 12 optical and a Kodak EasyShare M530 12mp w/ 3 optical.  These are not capable of remote use with them, the self timer feature is the closest with these).



Self timer does basically the same thing. GIMP is free and is just like photoshop. There is also PICASA (?), photoscape which are both free.


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## photo guy (Dec 31, 2011)

Thank You


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## photo guy (Dec 31, 2011)

*I AM NOW CLOSING THIS THREAD.  Thank You.*


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## Nikon_Josh (Dec 31, 2011)

photo guy said:


> *I AM NOW CLOSING THIS THREAD.  Thank You.*



Are you a moderator then?


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## MTVision (Dec 31, 2011)

photo guy said:
			
		

> I AM NOW CLOSING THIS THREAD.  Thank You.



??????


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## cgipson1 (Dec 31, 2011)

take a chill pill, PG.... mellow out!


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## photo guy (Dec 31, 2011)

I posted the new thread last night with photos to START OVER and don't want to continue these other threads that have become a joke to many. That is why I posted them as closed so no one else comments.  I want to start fresh from square 1 without all of this drama and BS.  Thanks


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## cgipson1 (Dec 31, 2011)

photo guy said:


> I posted the new thread last night with photos to START OVER and don't want to continue these other threads that have become a joke to many. That is why I posted them as closed so no one else comments.  I want to start fresh from square 1 without all of this drama and BS.  Thanks



Again.. did you get the PM's this time? My responses to your PM's? If not, we need to get a mod to see why. Or if you have decided to ignore the advice in the PM.. let me know that (and why, hopefully!)


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## photo guy (Dec 31, 2011)

I did get your new PM. Thank You. I am not going to waste any more time on this one thread so that is why I posted as closed. I am going to follow the new thread I started last night so I can start over. Thank You


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## LightSpeed (Dec 31, 2011)

PG, you cant just come in here and type "* I AM CLOSING THIS THREAD* "  and like waving a magic wand, it closes.
People start thinking " who the heck does this guy think he is?" lol


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## JH100 (Dec 31, 2011)

LightSpeed said:
			
		

> PG, you cant just come in here and type " I AM CLOSING THIS THREAD "  and like waving a magic wand, it closes.
> People start thinking " who the heck does this guy think he is?" lol



If you want people to stop posting in it, all you have to do is stop posting in it yourself and the thread will die because there would be nothing to go on. I'm not being rude, but no official announcement like that is necessary.


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## manaheim (Dec 31, 2011)

"Nothing to see here, folks... move along."


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## Bitter Jeweler (Dec 31, 2011)

Wait! Is this thread closed?


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## Bitter Jeweler (Dec 31, 2011)

Nope.


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## mishele (Dec 31, 2011)




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## Vtec44 (Dec 31, 2011)

OMG mishele, that video is hilarious.


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## mishele (Dec 31, 2011)

I love that guy!! He fits this thread perfectly!! LOL


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## Overread (Dec 31, 2011)

MISH - you're supposed to be playing Ludo - why are you not playing Ludo!!


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## mishele (Dec 31, 2011)

UNO not Ludo!!! lol


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## Overread (Dec 31, 2011)

Same thing!!


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## BlackSheep (Dec 31, 2011)

mishele said:


>



hahahaha! Thanks for posting that Mishele! That is hilarious, and it happened right here in my hometown! Canadians are so crazy sometimes!!!


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