# My Pet Peeve



## Trever1t

How to put this in Politically Correct language.... Pro photographers who suck.

OK that's not very PC is it? How about people charging for photography who haven't invested any time in understanding the craft. Who feel they should be charging but don't know what aperture is. I had to help a young Pro shooter not too long ago figure out how to set aperture on her basic Canon camera, and I shoot Nikon...it wasn't that hard to figure out.

I know this has been brought up before but I felt like a rant.

You know, I don't charge for my photography anymore...I turn down paying jobs every day. I only shoot for my pleasure and I only shoot what and who I want.

I know there's a market for very good, good and even mediocre shooters but damn, it still makes me wince. If you suck and you charge, at least be humble!


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## tirediron

I agree 100% but you forgot the """ and """ around "Pro"!  A month or so back I drove by a "pro" shooting a wedding party of probably six or seven strongly backlit by a low sun, and trying to use a small (~36") 5 in 1 reflector and nothing else.  I hope that worked out for her!


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## JacaRanda

Trever1t said:


> How to put this in Politically Correct language.... Pro photographers who suck.
> 
> OK that's not very PC is it? How about people charging for photography who haven't invested any time in understanding the craft. Who feel they should be charging but don't know what aperture is. I had to help a young Pro shooter not too long ago figure out how to set aperture on her basic Canon camera, and I shoot Nikon...it wasn't that hard to figure out.
> 
> I know this has been brought up before but I felt like a rant.
> 
> You know, I don't charge for my photography anymore...I turn down paying jobs every day. I only shoot for my pleasure and I only shoot what and who I want.
> 
> I know there's a market for very good, good and even mediocre shooters but damn, it still makes me wince. If you suck and you charge, at least be humble!



Hell, if I shot who you shoot, I'd be in heaven and nothing else would matter!    Jealousy mixed with a pinch of hatorade  
Thankful that you share!


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## Designer

Trever1t said:


> How to put this in Politically Correct language.... Pro photographers who suck.


I am happy to place a good portion of the blame on the customers.  If people are willing to pay money for mediocre "art" then they deserve the crap they get.

And the not-very-good "pros" are bolstered in their arrogance and inflated sense of self-worth.  

I see it in all genres of art.  Public art is purchased by ignorant art committees and the vast majority of people don't know the difference between good and bad art, so nobody complains.


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## Designer

tirediron said:


> .. a "pro" shooting a wedding party of probably six or seven strongly backlit ..


Yup, I've seen the same thing.  She made all of her shots of the wedding party against the setting sun, and no flash.  

But she is the pro, so everybody was happy with her photos.


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## Trever1t

Designer said:


> Trever1t said:
> 
> 
> 
> How to put this in Politically Correct language.... Pro photographers who suck.
> 
> 
> 
> I am happy to place a good portion of the blame on the customers.  If people are willing to pay money for mediocre "art" then they deserve the crap they get.
> 
> And the not-very-good "pros" are bolstered in their arrogance and inflated sense of self-worth.
> 
> I see it in all genres of art.  Public art is purchased by ignorant art committees and the vast majority of people don't know the difference between good and bad art, so nobody complains.
Click to expand...


yes, I totally agree but I also wonder about people with over inflated self-worth and ego. As an 'artist' or photographer I never feel I am good enough. I suppose it's what drives me to try new things, improve with every session. I like some of my work enough to look at it and think to myself that I did a good job but I look at other's work and bow down with humility at my lack of skill set.


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## Designer

Trever1t said:


> yes, I totally agree but I also wonder about people with over inflated self-worth and ego.


I've seen plenty of those people too.  Even without being "proven" their attitude puts them "above" the pedestrian variety of artists (like me).  That air of superiority actually helps "sell" their art to the ignorant customers.  

I've often thought to myself: "Self; why can't you be more confident and arrogant, like that guy?" "Your stuff is at least as good, if not better, so why can't you be more like him?"  "All it would take is a snotty attitude, and the bucks and adulation will flood in!"  

Then I realized that I'm not cut of that cloth, so I let it go.


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## Tailgunner

Trever1t said:


> As an 'artist' or photographer I never feel I am good enough. I suppose it's what drives me to try new things, improve with every session. I like some of my work enough to look at it and think to myself that I did a good job but I look at other's work and bow down with humility at my lack of skill set.



I think this is what sets you and a lot of us from the rest.


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## jl1975

Trever1t said:


> Designer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trever1t said:
> 
> 
> 
> How to put this in Politically Correct language.... Pro photographers who suck.
> 
> 
> 
> I am happy to place a good portion of the blame on the customers.  If people are willing to pay money for mediocre "art" then they deserve the crap they get.
> 
> And the not-very-good "pros" are bolstered in their arrogance and inflated sense of self-worth.
> 
> I see it in all genres of art.  Public art is purchased by ignorant art committees and the vast majority of people don't know the difference between good and bad art, so nobody complains.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yes, I totally agree but I also wonder about people with over inflated self-worth and ego. As an 'artist' or photographer I never feel I am good enough. I suppose it's what drives me to try new things, improve with every session. I like some of my work enough to look at it and think to myself that I did a good job but I look at other's work and bow down with humility at my lack of skill set.
Click to expand...


I think the issue is that these "pros" are not really artists like yourself.  Rather, they are someone with a nice camera and enough compliments from friends and family to feel confident enough that they are comfortable with their work.


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## medic2230

tirediron said:


> I agree 100% but you forgot the """ and """ around "Pro"!  A month or so back I drove by a "pro" shooting a wedding party of probably six or seven strongly backlit by a low sun, and trying to use a small (~36") 5 in 1 reflector and nothing else.  I hope that worked out for her!



Well if you were a "Pro" you would have known that she was going to contort that reflector until she had beaming rays of setting sunlight on every single one of them. On the other hand she may of just lit each one individually on separate frames and fixed it in post. Yeah, that's it.


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## medic2230

Trever1t said:


> How to put this in Politically Correct language.... Pro photographers who suck.
> 
> OK that's not very PC is it? How about people charging for photography who haven't invested any time in understanding the craft. Who feel they should be charging but don't know what aperture is. I had to help a young Pro shooter not too long ago figure out how to set aperture on her basic Canon camera, and I shoot Nikon...it wasn't that hard to figure out.
> 
> I know this has been brought up before but I felt like a rant.
> 
> You know, I don't charge for my photography anymore...I turn down paying jobs every day. I only shoot for my pleasure and I only shoot what and who I want.
> 
> I know there's a market for very good, good and even mediocre shooters but damn, it still makes me wince. If you suck and you charge, at least be humble!



You should have done her a favor and threw that Canon in the closest garbage can and told her Canon's don't do things like that and she should have bought a Nikon from the start if she wanted to be "Pro".


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## Trever1t

medic2230 said:


> Trever1t said:
> 
> 
> 
> How to put this in Politically Correct language.... Pro photographers who suck.
> 
> OK that's not very PC is it? How about people charging for photography who haven't invested any time in understanding the craft. Who feel they should be charging but don't know what aperture is. I had to help a young Pro shooter not too long ago figure out how to set aperture on her basic Canon camera, and I shoot Nikon...it wasn't that hard to figure out.
> 
> I know this has been brought up before but I felt like a rant.
> 
> You know, I don't charge for my photography anymore...I turn down paying jobs every day. I only shoot for my pleasure and I only shoot what and who I want.
> 
> I know there's a market for very good, good and even mediocre shooters but damn, it still makes me wince. If you suck and you charge, at least be humble!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You should have done her a favor and threw that Canon in the closest garbage can and told her Canon's don't do things like that and she should have bought a Nikon from the start if she wanted to be "Pro".
Click to expand...



she was really really cute and I was hoping to get her in her undies.


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## medic2230

Trever1t said:


> medic2230 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trever1t said:
> 
> 
> 
> How to put this in Politically Correct language.... Pro photographers who suck.
> 
> OK that's not very PC is it? How about people charging for photography who haven't invested any time in understanding the craft. Who feel they should be charging but don't know what aperture is. I had to help a young Pro shooter not too long ago figure out how to set aperture on her basic Canon camera, and I shoot Nikon...it wasn't that hard to figure out.
> 
> I know this has been brought up before but I felt like a rant.
> 
> You know, I don't charge for my photography anymore...I turn down paying jobs every day. I only shoot for my pleasure and I only shoot what and who I want.
> 
> I know there's a market for very good, good and even mediocre shooters but damn, it still makes me wince. If you suck and you charge, at least be humble!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You should have done her a favor and threw that Canon in the closest garbage can and told her Canon's don't do things like that and she should have bought a Nikon from the start if she wanted to be "Pro".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> she was really really cute and I was hoping to get her in her undies.
Click to expand...



Good point. Noted and written in my exposure book.


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## robbins.photo

medic2230 said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree 100% but you forgot the """ and """ around "Pro"!  A month or so back I drove by a "pro" shooting a wedding party of probably six or seven strongly backlit by a low sun, and trying to use a small (~36") 5 in 1 reflector and nothing else.  I hope that worked out for her!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well if you were a "Pro" you would have known that she was going to contort that reflector until she had beaming rays of setting sunlight on every single one of them. On the other hand she may of just lit each one individually on separate frames and fixed it in post. Yeah, that's it.
Click to expand...


I think the problem is they passed by too quickly and didn't see the part where she was passing out tinfoil hats to everyone in the wedding party.


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## snerd

medic2230 said:


> You should have done her a favor and threw that Canon in the closest garbage can and told her Canon's don't do things like that and she should have bought a Nikon from the start if she wanted to be "Pro".


Watch it, rookie.


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## Ysarex

Oh the stories I could tell you after 40 years.....

Joe


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## snerd

Ysarex said:


> Oh the stories I could tell you after 40 years.....
> 
> Joe


Do tell....................


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## Derrel

Trever1t said:
			
		

> .........I had to help a young Pro shooter not too long ago figure out how to set aperture on her basic Canon camera, and I shoot Nikon...it wasn't that hard to figure out...



Wow.Just...wow. Now that is a pretty sad example of not knowing  one of the most basic bits of camera handling. It's I guess a commentary on how low the barriers to entry really are these days. As I used to say fifteen years ago, "Hell, everybody's a photographer these days." And since that time, it has become even more common for people to sell themselves as photographers, or professional photographers, even though they do not even know the most junior high school-level stuff about how to use their OWN camera! Even as long ago as 15 years ago, I noticed that autofocus and smart matrix metering and TTL flash metering had flooded the market with noobs who were selling themselves and selling shoddy work as *professional *work. Now that stuff like film costs, develop and print costs, and enlargement costs have ALL been eliminated, there really are basically, almost zero barriers to entry, and there is NO barrier to taking on any kind of shoots. When it used to cost $350 for film and processing, and when $350 was a month's rent on an apartment, the people shooting weddings and senior sessions actually knew what the F they were doing...you HAD to! But today....apparently, you don't even need to know how to set your f/.


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## JacaRanda

Who needs an F'n number when there is auto?


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## Trever1t

Which is how she was doing it,  full auto. She is awfully cute though. .


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## Derrel

Maybe you should have introduced her to the _*big P*_?  


You know, the one on the dial! Get your mind out of the gutter!


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## Vtec44

tirediron said:


> A month or so back I drove by a "pro" shooting a wedding party of probably six or seven strongly backlit by a low sun, and trying to use a small (~36") 5 in 1 reflector and nothing else.  I hope that worked out for her!



She must be shooting Nikon.  The DR is so amazing, she doesn't need fill light


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## medic2230

Vtec44 said:


> *She must be shooting Nikon.  The DR is so amazing, she doesn't need fill light*



I hear it's a new picture control or retouch option included with the D400. That way you can do it in camera before or after the shot.


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## robbins.photo

medic2230 said:


> Vtec44 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *She must be shooting Nikon.  The DR is so amazing, she doesn't need fill light*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hear it's a new picture control or retouch option included with the D400. That way you can do it in camera before or after the shot.
Click to expand...

Wait, you have to do it yourself?  It doesn't do it automatically?

What the hell good is that?

Sent from my 306SH using Tapatalk


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## medic2230

robbins.photo said:


> medic2230 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vtec44 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *She must be shooting Nikon.  The DR is so amazing, she doesn't need fill light*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hear it's a new picture control or retouch option included with the D400. That way you can do it in camera before or after the shot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wait, you have to do it yourself?  It doesn't do it automatically?
> 
> What the hell good is that?
> 
> Sent from my 306SH using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


It's called creativity. 

If you didn't do it yourself you'd be like all the other soccer mom's out there with a D3100 calling themselves pro's.


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## robbins.photo

medic2230 said:


> robbins.photo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> medic2230 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vtec44 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *She must be shooting Nikon.  The DR is so amazing, she doesn't need fill light*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hear it's a new picture control or retouch option included with the D400. That way you can do it in camera before or after the shot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wait, you have to do it yourself?  It doesn't do it automatically?
> 
> What the hell good is that?
> 
> Sent from my 306SH using Tapatalk
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's called creativity.
> 
> If you didn't do it yourself you'd be like all the other soccer mom's out there with a D3100 calling themselves pro's.
Click to expand...

Creativity.  Ok, writing that down.  Now I just need step by step instructions.

Go.

Lol

Sent from my 306SH using Tapatalk


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## medic2230

robbins.photo said:


> medic2230 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> robbins.photo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> medic2230 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vtec44 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *She must be shooting Nikon.  The DR is so amazing, she doesn't need fill light*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hear it's a new picture control or retouch option included with the D400. That way you can do it in camera before or after the shot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wait, you have to do it yourself?  It doesn't do it automatically?
> 
> What the hell good is that?
> 
> Sent from my 306SH using Tapatalk
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's called creativity.
> 
> If you didn't do it yourself you'd be like all the other soccer mom's out there with a D3100 calling themselves pro's.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Creativity.  Ok, writing that down.  Now I just need step by step instructions.
> 
> Go.
> 
> Lol
> 
> Sent from my 306SH using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


RTFM Jeesh


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## vfotog

Trever1t said:


> she was really really cute and I was hoping to get her in her undies.



TMI


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## pjaye

Like my niece, who took my pictures, that I took and put them on her website and said she took them? Who asked me which camera she should buy to start a business and when I mentioned a contract, the next day she started her business with the point and shoot she swiped from her ex boyfriend? Who posts blurry pictures and says that her business specializes in brightly colored prints (think over saturated) and fine art? 

Ya, pisses me right off.

She's the reason all my pictures on facebook have a very prominent watermark, because she won't steal them now as she doesn't know how to remove the watermark.


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## robbins.photo

symplybarb said:


> Like my niece, who took my pictures, that I took and put them on her website and said she took them? Who asked me which camera she should buy to start a business and when I mentioned a contract, the next day she started her business with the point and shoot she swiped from her ex boyfriend? Who posts blurry pictures and says that her business specializes in brightly colored prints (think over saturated) and fine art?
> 
> Ya, pisses me right off.
> 
> She's the reason all my pictures on facebook have a very prominent watermark, because she won't steal them now as she doesn't know how to remove the watermark.



Lol... so does your watermark read:

This Photo Not Taken By [Insert Nieces Name Here]


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## imagemaker46

It is a sad state these days and getting worse all the time. Amateur professionals, I know way too many of them.  Some of them come to me for help, I'll help almost anyone.  I recently covered the Pan American Games where Nikon and Canon was loaning gear to all the accredited "professionals"  I sat around people everyday asking the most basic questions, why doesn't it autofocus, well it has been switched off, how do I switch it back on? I watched people drop brand new gear and not care.  These people were using D4 or 1Dx bodies and  300mm to 600mm borrowed gear, and didn't have a clue how to use any of it.  I did not offer any help to these people.  If they had of using, or owned gear I would have, but then the ones that owned the gear knew how to use it.   A few months back I helped a guy with all the basics, what to look for, how to see the light, he didn't know what backlight was.  He was using entry level gear, he appreciated the help,  fast forward he took some of his 100k job money and bought a D4 and 300 2.8, and now he has been contacting my client about his work.  I found out and lit his ass up.  He didn't think there was anything wrong offering to shoot for free.   We have an understanding now, I can't use the words.  It's a frustrating world out there now, I try and not let what others do bother me, but some days.


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## JoeW

Trever1t said:


> How to put this in Politically Correct language.... Pro photographers who suck.
> 
> OK that's not very PC is it? How about people charging for photography who haven't invested any time in understanding the craft. Who feel they should be charging but don't know what aperture is. I had to help a young Pro shooter not too long ago figure out how to set aperture on her basic Canon camera, and I shoot Nikon...it wasn't that hard to figure out.
> 
> I know this has been brought up before but I felt like a rant.
> 
> You know, I don't charge for my photography anymore...I turn down paying jobs every day. I only shoot for my pleasure and I only shoot what and who I want.
> 
> I know there's a market for very good, good and even mediocre shooters but damn, it still makes me wince. If you suck and you charge, at least be humble!



My pet peeve is that you, Trever, don't post more of your shoot results more often. Get with it big guy!


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## Trever1t

JoeW said:


> My pet peeve is that you, Trever, don't post more of your shoot results more often. Get with it big guy!



Haha! Thanks! I've been so busy, no new work in months!


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## runnah

The main reason is that some fools think Pro = getting paid, rather than Pro = level of quality and skill.

But sadly unlike other fields people can buy a best buy camera, charge some sucker $100 and then call themselves a Professional Phototaker.

We need licenses.


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## runnah

imagemaker46 said:


> It is a sad state these days and getting worse all the time. Amateur professionals, I know way too many of them.  Some of them come to me for help, I'll help almost anyone.  I recently covered the Pan American Games where Nikon and Canon was loaning gear to all the accredited "professionals"  I sat around people everyday asking the most basic questions, why doesn't it autofocus, well it has been switched off, how do I switch it back on? I watched people drop brand new gear and not care.  These people were using D4 or 1Dx bodies and  300mm to 600mm borrowed gear, and didn't have a clue how to use any of it.  I did not offer any help to these people.  If they had of using, or owned gear I would have, but then the ones that owned the gear knew how to use it.   A few months back I helped a guy with all the basics, what to look for, how to see the light, he didn't know what backlight was.  He was using entry level gear, he appreciated the help,  fast forward he took some of his 100k job money and bought a D4 and 300 2.8, and now he has been contacting my client about his work.  I found out and lit his ass up.  He didn't think there was anything wrong offering to shoot for free.   We have an understanding now, I can't use the words.  It's a frustrating world out there now, I try and not let what others do bother me, but some days.



Disgusting.

Reminds me of that ski race I did last winter. Registration made it sound like it was a huge deal to get on the course, instead the course was filled with folks with kit lenses or crazy expensive gear and no clue what they were doing. You could tell the working pro's because they were the guys with the big old prime's that were all beat up.

Thankfully I had enough knowledge and skill to over come my ski racing virginity.


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## BananaRepublic

You could break down backhoe/JCB drivers into three categories: Poor, Decent, Skilled. The same goes for any profession.


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## Trever1t

BananaRepublic said:


> You could break down backhoe/JCB drivers into three categories: Poor, Decent, Skilled. The same goes for any profession.




Well no, not really. In most cases training and working the trades takes time to get into a position. Anyone can buy a camera and start charging, there's a difference there.


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## jovince3000

My opinion of this is that since we're in an era where literally everyone owning a smartphone is a photographer, the customers have grown accustomed to seeing "bad/okay" pictures and has lowered it's standard for professional imagery as well as a result.  

How many time do you see those badly exposed group shot at bars on facebook. Seriously, they are everywhere and that's only one example. 

I think this is what sparkled the trend " I got the gears so I charge ". But honestly speaking it is kind of sad for people who actually work their buts off everyday to hone their skills and deliver decent work. As long as the client is okay with it I guess....


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## jake337

I hate mcdonalds too!


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## Mr. Innuendo

I really don't worry about what other people do.

If someone sucks and they charge, well, there ya' go. Just goes to prove that there's a customer for every photographer. 

The people who are paying for the crappy photographer probably wouldn't be too interested in what I have to offer them, so I'm not all too interested in wasting any discernible amount of time worrying about what that crappy photographer is doing to get customers who are incapable of recognizing professional quality.


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## jcdeboever

I get asked to do stuff all the time for free and even then I tell them I suck at it. The results never disappoint... A lot of people don't know a good photo from a bad. I actually get embarrassed when I get in front of the monitor. I suffer really.


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## EIngerson

The customer base we have is quite unaware also. Most have no idea what goes into prep and post. I here people complain all the time about "Why do I have to pay just to see the photos?" I mean, maybe they're right, It's not like I have to edit whether they buy them or not. Don't get me started on sports parents. lol

At least my camera takes great photos……..


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## desertrattm2r12

I a gourmet coffee lover. It's worth one's life to get a decent cup of coffee anywhere, especially at *$. I go into a K-Mart and the bathing trunks look like they would fit a troupe of sumo wrestlers, all at one time. I had satellite TV with 504 channels and the only things worth watching outside of PBS were old re-runs of Law And Order, the ones with Lenny in them. Our roads are a wreck, our bridges are deathtraps, out schools are either over testing or ignoring the kids. And you gripe about lousy photographers. I watch a lot of real estate listings on Realtor.com and other venues. I can hardly believe how Gawdauful some of the photos shown for $4 million homes are. Obviously some Realtor is snapping quick images with his credit card-sized digital ad vomiting them onto the Internet. These guys make great rooms look like toilets. But what is most amazing is that the owners of the big bucks home don't say a word. It would seem almost nobody know a good photo from a terrible one these days. By the way I have done real estate photography and sold real estate, as well. Some real estate photogs still take the time to set everything up carefully, use proper equipment, will look to see what time a day is the best for outdoor shots or outdoor-indoor shots and do nighttime long exposure photos with balanced lighting to properly light the interior. But they are slowly losing out.


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## EhJsNe

I'm a firm believer in the "everybody starts somewhere" mentality. However, I also think you should pride yourself in your work. Photographers who don't even know how to use a camera make as much sense as a taxi driver who doesn't know how to drive a car or a carpenter who doesn't know how to use a hammer. It's really upsetting how creative jobs can't be taken seriously because artists can't take themselves seriously.


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