# Fully Manual Or Aperture Priority



## LarissaPhotography (Oct 29, 2009)

Until recently, I didn't realize that there are professionals using aperture priority.  For me, I like the control, so I'm a fully manual guy.  Do any of you other pro's use aperture priority?


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## musicaleCA (Oct 29, 2009)

*coughs* There are lots, and lots, and lots of pros that use Av.


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## Brian L (Oct 30, 2009)

Your giving our secrets away man hush!

I use manual more then I do av.


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## battletone (Oct 30, 2009)

This one of those things that I still don't quite understand...

If using the exposure suggestion from the cameras meter and exposing to the center (0, or the "correct" exposure), then using Av shouldn't make any difference from using manual...expect that in changing light conditions in Manual you will be constantly having to scroll the adjustment wheel.  But on a controlled setting, I can see the Manual being a better option, because once you get the exposure you want, you can take multiple exposures with uniformity.

So basically....my over thinking beginner thought is that outside of a [somewhat] controlled setting and/or intentionally over/under exposing....Manual doesn't really make sense.

Feel free to correct me where I am wrong...I honestly would like to know how/if my logic is flawed on this.  That said...I tend to shoot in M just cause I think it makes me learn more.


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## Dominantly (Oct 30, 2009)

I shoot A the majority if the time unless I am trying to control a very unique situation.
I will shoot S if I M dealing with something I am trying to capture something with good speed.


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## musicaleCA (Oct 30, 2009)

battletone: M is useful in any scenario where the meter is fooled and you need consistent exposures. This can happen often in sports photography.


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## NiKOnSLR (Oct 30, 2009)

I use mostly A and S.


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## PhotoXopher (Oct 30, 2009)

The 'I like full control' argument is a little weak. Even in aperture priority you can dial in exposure compensation.

There are times manual is needed, but not nearly as often as you might think - or want to believe.

I ran a poll here recently to find out this very thing... I was amazed at the results. If I recall correctly it was about 70% that used aperture priority followed by about 25% manual and 5% shutter.


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## Overread (Oct 30, 2009)

battletone you are right - when the camera meter is working and giving you the exposures you want - or simply needs a little correction (eg during daytime light I often find I like to underexpose a little to save highlights) then using aperture priority is far quicker than using manual mode and great for being on the go - walking and such.

Of course studio conditions, times when flash is the dominant light source and other examples, like at night, then full manual is often the way you need to go because what the camera gives you is not what you want. Take flash as  the dominat light source - the camera meter looks at the current light in the scene, whilst hte flash is attached and on the camera can't  meter for the flashlight as its not present until you take the shot( at which point its too late to change the settings) so one has to slip into manual mode if the flash light is dominant (ie its providing most of the lighting as oppposed to just filling in a few shadows).

ALWAYS use the mode that will get you the best shot possile in the situation your in - if for you that is auto mode then use it - if its manual then use that - if its aperture or shutter priority then use those.
The settings will still give the exact same result - f5.6, ISO 200, 1/320sec is the same in aperture priority mode or manual mode.


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## oxcart (Oct 30, 2009)

NiKOnSLR said:


> I use mostly A and S.



+1.


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## Buckster (Oct 30, 2009)

I'm probably in "A" 90% of the time or more, simply because I usually want to be in control of aperture more than anything, and don't mind as much where shutter falls to make that happen.  Then I can dial in the light with EV steps if need be without taking the camera from my eye.

Next, "M", and that's mostly for studio shots with multiple off-camera strobes.  I'm still interested in controlling aperture the most, but the camera meter won't compensate correctly for all the strobes in "A" so I take full control.

Finally, "T", on the rare occasions that I want to use motion to pan a subject or capture waterfalls or something like that.


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## joemc (Oct 30, 2009)

I shoot on aperture priority 90% of the time too.....But I use exposure compensation like it's second nature.... That button will wear out first....lol.... I also use the ISO button a million times a shoot to control SS.

Cheers, joe


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## Rmac (Oct 30, 2009)

I'm probably the minority here, I shoot in manual most of the time. Because, way back when I picked a camera for the fist time it was the only option, just got used to it I guess. 

Mac,


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## ann (Oct 30, 2009)

like mac, i use manual mode 99.9 percent of the time. I have been doing that for over 60 years and it is just second nature.

Along with the use of manual metering, i rarely use the suggested recommendation, correcting a bit depending on the light and my creative vision. It all becomes automatic as i have been doing this for so long.

When i get a new camera body i have to take some time to test it's metering system to determine what type of "tweaks" i will need to make.

I am not against aperture or shutter priority mode, as in some cases it can be very helpful as can be pure auto mode.  For me, it is knowing when i need to use which function.


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## Dao (Oct 30, 2009)

I use A most of the time but use M in the moment when I do not trust the in-camera light meter especially in a controlled environment.


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## usayit (Oct 30, 2009)

Both.. it doesn't matter how you get to a proper exposure.


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## inTempus (Oct 30, 2009)

If I'm shooting with a flash/strobe, I'm in manual.

All other times I'm in either Av or Tv depending on what I'm shooting.  If you like fiddling with your camera when you should be shooting, use manual all the time.  You gain absolutely nothing by shooting manual other than the ability to tell others "I'm a manual shooter".    You can do everything "creatively" you do in manual with Av or Tv, only faster.

I understand the old timers that started on cameras that only had manual modes.  If you're used to something it's hard to do things differently, especially when you have 30 years of being content with doing things the way you've been doing them.  My mom still prefers a stick shift over an automatic transmission in her cars for the same reason many manual shooters give here - "it offers her more control".  In reality, it's slower, clumsy, inconvenient and less fuel efficient... but try telling her that.  

Do what works for you, but also try other alternatives.  Don't get hung up on what the "pros" do.  Focus on what produces the best results for you.  Let's not mention that most of the "pros" I know use manual in much the same way as I do now.  They arrived at their system probably the same way I did, through lots of trial and error.


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## inTempus (Oct 30, 2009)

ann said:


> When i get a new camera body i have to take some time to test it's metering system to determine what type of "tweaks" i will need to make.


You can do this outside of manual mode pretty easily.  I learned right away that my 5D2 likes to underexpose just a little in certain situations.  I learned by by shooting in Av mode.  I took a bunch of pics, reviewed them, noticed many were a little underexposed in Lightroom, and now I know when I need to dial in a little exposure compensation.


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## NateS (Oct 30, 2009)

I'm just about the same as InTempus.  If I'm using a flash (on camera or off camera), I am always in Manual mode.  The ONLY time I'm ever in A with a flash is when I forget to turn the dial to M (has happened but not a huge deal usually).

Portraits without flash, I am in Aperture priority about 99.9% of the time.

Landscapes, I'm in Aperture priority a good bit, but also have my fair share of manual.

See, my problem is that I don't use nor care for exposure compensation.  If I need to use Exposure comp. then that means that I'm not happy with what the meter is giving me.  If that is the case I would rather just go manual and get it right rather than have the meter keep guessing incorrectly with exposure comp.  If I don't trust the meter for some reason, I don't trust it for that instance period.....


So, any time that a normal person would use exposure comp, I just switch over to manual (using the Aperture priority settings as a base) and move the exposure to where I want.  I can do this as quickly as Exposure comp. and get more accurate results.  Again.....this is usually only the case for me during landscapes where the meter may be getting it wrong and exposing the wrong portion of the scene for what I want.


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## KmH (Oct 30, 2009)

I'm part of the 'learned when Manual mode was the only choice ' crowd, it's just second nature and I don't really think about the settings.

I do use Aperture Priority when I shoot sports now, but thats a recent thing. I started using it about 6 months ago. It's NOT second nature and feels really strange.


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## altitude604 (Oct 30, 2009)

inTempus said:


> My mom still prefers a stick shift over an automatic transmission in her cars for the same reason many manual shooters give here - "it offers her more control".  In reality, it's slower, clumsy, inconvenient and less fuel efficient... but try telling her that.



I'd disagree with that. I prefer using Standard Transmission 95% of the time unless in heavy city traffic when clutching would wear out my ankle.

In reality, a competent driver on a stick is faster, more efficient and with greater control of your engine revs you can increase your fuel economy and save money on brakes as well as extend your engine life. (Also see who's off the line and ahead faster, the Stick or the Auto. With the stick you can reach your powerband quicker and get that extra oomph from each Gear.)

Having said that, I shoot in Av and Tv mostly.


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## battletone (Oct 30, 2009)

altitude604 said:


> inTempus said:
> 
> 
> > My mom still prefers a stick shift over an automatic transmission in her cars for the same reason many manual shooters give here - "it offers her more control".  In reality, it's slower, clumsy, inconvenient and less fuel efficient... but try telling her that.
> ...



That is no longer true, and hasn't been for 20 years.  Modern electronic control has allowed automatic transmission to shift more precisely than any human can.  The fuel savings are negligible now with Manuals only offering 1 mpg estimated over their Auto counterparts, and that is due to having an extra gear to further smooth out the applied torque required to gain speed while numerically lowering the gearing ratio...but now with the CVT (constant variable transmission), even that is null and void).  To top it off, you are not saving fuel with a Manual if you down shift for braking as you are reving up the engine once the clutch is reapplied because the engine has to catch up the speed of the rear end....and while cruising down hill at 3000k+ rpms with your foot off the gas pedal uses less fuel (in electronically controlled vehciles) than coasting in neutral at 700rpms down the same hill, or even just sitting there idling at a stop light (because the computer sees that fuel is not being required as gravity is what is turning the engine over now)....when you downshift as your choice of braking, the computers fuel control doesn't see it the same and uses even more fuel to try and compensate than if you just used your brakes...same with downshifting late because your engine is under more and more increasing load and increases the fuel to try and compensate.

:hugs:

As for being off the line....the only reason in a street race that sticks are perceived faster is because the auto's computer from the factory is set to shift at fuel efficient points rather than acceleration.

The post below me is also wrong, but I won't waste another post off topic.


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## dhilberg (Oct 30, 2009)

I shoot in aperture the majority of the time. Manual when I don't want the camera messing with my settings. Although to be honest, since I'm most focused on the aperture anyway, the only difference between the two modes is I'm setting the shutter speed.

A manual tranny is actually more fuel efficient than an automatic one because there is a rigid lock between the engine and transmission (no slip). This is compared to an auto tranny where you have a torque converter where there's constant slip. Although autos with locking torque converters improve efficiency a lot, but these generally only kick in when cruising. Plus, the hydraulic pump for the auto tranny requires power.

Like altitude604 said, they're a lot easier on your brakes too, since you're using the engine to do a majority of the braking. I recently had my tires rotated and was told that I still had 75% on my brake pads, which were changed over 40,000 miles ago.

EDIT:



battletone said:


> The post below me is also wrong, but I won't waste another post off topic.



Actually it's not wrong, but it's a wise choice for you to end it here.


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## IgsEMT (Oct 30, 2009)

Over 95% of the time, regardless weather I'm at work or at home, Camera and flash are on M. Few times I can jump to aperture is _on the run_, need shallow DOF & don't have time/patience to think about fstop/shutter speed ration under specific light output.
It isn't so much _control_ as it is more preventing eliminating things I don't want to see: for example the light in my living room in very warm and even though I'm shooting it RAW, shooting at 1/60 allows to much of that warmth in the image that simple changing white balance doesn't work - subject turns out to be very blue/pale. Thus I have to shoot at faster shutter speeds. I don't always like shallow DoF unless I'm looking for specific effect and again combination of factors is my reasoning.

*What I do strongly believe*, is it isn't so much the camera setting one is using but *knowing the difference* b/n them. At given ISO, exposures of 1/60 at f/11 is nearly the same as 1/250 at f5.6 but effects will vary. This is something that anyone who is charging for the product should know and anticipate.:thumbup:


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## ann (Oct 30, 2009)

testing a new camera doesn't take long, i didn't mean to imply that it did.


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## tnvol (Oct 31, 2009)

I shoot in manual most of the time.  When I read Understanding Exposure thats what Bryan suggested so I just stuck with it.  It's easier for me to control my exposure that way.  I know it isnt the only way but I'm comfortable with it so thats what I do.   I do shoot in A sometimes but most of the time it's manual for me.  I'm sure as I gain more experience, I will figure out the benefits of shooting in other modes.  I dont really look at is as a "pro" thing, it's just whats comfortable for me at this point in my photography.


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## fiveoboy01 (Oct 31, 2009)

dhilberg said:


> A manual tranny is actually more fuel efficient than an automatic one because there is a rigid lock between the engine and transmission (no slip). This is compared to an auto tranny where you have a torque converter where there's constant slip. Although autos with locking torque converters improve efficiency a lot, but these generally only kick in when cruising. Plus, the hydraulic pump for the auto tranny requires power.
> 
> Like altitude604 said, they're a lot easier on your brakes too, since you're using the engine to do a majority of the braking. I recently had my tires rotated and was told that I still had 75% on my brake pads, which were changed over 40,000 miles ago.
> 
> ...



Another thing to account for is that an automatic produces more parasitic loss through the drivetrain, quite a bit more than a manual.

That said I mostly shoot in aperture priority. 

I also don't worry about what anyone else shoots in.  As InTempus said, do what works for you(crap, did I just call you InTempus Tharsmen?  hahaha).


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## tirediron (Oct 31, 2009)

My camera has four modes, I use them all to [what I hope is their] greatest effect thusly:

Manual:  For studio/strobe work, landscapes, panoramas, and macro work

Aperture Priority:  In known lighting conditions when DoF is critical; eg at a wedding when I want to be able to isolate the bride from the background.

Shutter Priority:  In low/changing light conditions (To avoid the camera slipping below a 'safe' shutter speed unnoticed) or when I require a particular effect, such as freezing a fast-moving subject.

Program:  Or, as I like to think of it, 'ready for anything' mode.  This where I leave the camera when I'm walking around shooting street scenes, or expecting something unexpected.  I know that I can bring the camera up to my eye, shoot, and be reasonably assured of getting a half-decent picture.  Sort of the modern equivalent of "F8 and be there!"


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## bhphotography (Oct 31, 2009)

I actually shoot a lot more with shutter priority. I do a lot of weddings and the worst thing that could happen would be motion blur as the bride walks down the isle or during the kiss. 

During the reception, I use off camera strobes and everything is fully manual at that point. Outdoors I will use manual or aperature priority.

I find in a fast paced, outdoor invironment, giving the camera some control isnt' bad. It's good to get used to the EV controls as well however.


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## davebmck (Oct 31, 2009)

I think it's a good practice to shoot exclusively manual until you are totally comfortable with understanding how to get a correct exposure and how aperture, shutter and iso work together.  That is what I did.  

Now I shoot mostly Av.  I do mostly wildlife photography and I would miss many shots if I were tweaking the exposure for every shot.  The trick of course is knowing when the camera won't get the exposure right and using exposure comp to correct for that.  I still use manual when I have plenty of time to set up a shot, like for landscape.


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## Garbz (Oct 31, 2009)

Err I don't know any pro that shoots exclusively manual, I don't know any pro that shoots exclusively aperture priority, and I also don't know any pro that shoots exclusive shutter priority.

The Pro (and by this I mean someone actually dedicated to the art, and not someone who bought a DSLR, somehow got paid for a job and is now a "pro), will know what his camera does in every situation, and will pick the appropriate settings for the job. 

I control my composition with aperture priority, and control my exposure with the EV bias. 
If shutter speed is critical I shoot with shutter priority, and I control the exposure with the EV bias. 
If my camera is being widely inconsistent (shooting a soccer event with a team with white shirts and a team with black shirts) I shoot in manual but other than that I see no reason to not use the fantastic tools developed over the last 30 years which react very quickly and hit the correct exposure 99% of the time.


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## molested_cow (Oct 31, 2009)

A almost all the time, but B when I want to make long exposure shot with a remote.

I will use M when I need step up or down when using a filter. I know I can use the dial, but I always forget that it's there.

I don't use my auto lens nearly as often as my full manual lens, so S is quite useless to me.


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## 5DManiac (Nov 1, 2009)

Manual can certainly be useful like for long exposures but seriously I don't get manual "snobs," sorry... I use AV 90% of the time and works wonderfully!  You still have full control!


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## RONDAL (Nov 1, 2009)

i shoot in whichever setting will allow me to get the required shot I am looking for.


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## RyanLilly (Nov 3, 2009)

I tend to shoot in manual quite a bit, just because I often shoot in situations that utterly confuse the light meter, but I'll bet some of the most recently released cameras offer much better metering than a 20D and I would shoot in other modes more often. For everyday picture taking I'll most likely use Av, but If I find the need to adjust exposure compensation more than a couple times, I just switch back to manual, because its easier than fiddling with EV settings all day.


Regardless of fuel efficiency, brake ware, and all that other crap which has to be compared on a car by car basis.... *A stick shift is still way more fun to drive!*


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## Buckster (Nov 3, 2009)

It's been said a couple times now, but it's gone over my head, so I have to ask: How is working in manual easier than switching EV on the fly?

I'm in aperture because I want a particular DOF.  I'm exposed in the middle of the meter, and it turns out too bright, I spin my EV wheel CCW and because I'm in Av, shutter gets faster at a rate of 1/3 stop per click to bring the exposure value down while I get to keep the aperture I want.  Effortlessly.

Or, I'm in shutter because I feel I need a particular speed.  Same thing happens, but now when I spin the dial, aperture changes to compensate.  Again, effortlessly.

How is manual so much easier than that?


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## iflynething (Nov 3, 2009)

Manual. All the time. Every day. No exceptions

~Michael~


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## NateWagner (Nov 3, 2009)

I agree with the majority here... 

I'm usually in A, and like buckster, if it looks a little underexposed I turn the wheel and voila the shutter speed changes (in consistent levels) such that it acts like M. 

I use M whenever I am using flash, particularly when it is my primary light source, or if I'm going for a certain effect. A is pretty much useless to me in those times.


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## Buckster (Nov 3, 2009)

Gotta throw this in, since so many are making the car analogy...  I just got Joe McNally's newest book, "The Hot Shoe Diaries", and on the very first page of the very first section of the very first chapter (page 8, for those of you following along with your own playbook), he writes this:

[quote="Joe McNally]I am in aperture priority mode 90-plus percent of the time.  It works for me because I vastly prefer to dictate to the camera the f-stop I will shoot at, rather than dictate shutter speed via shutter priority mode.  I am comfortable handholding my cameras at all manner of shutter speeds, and since I am often shooting with some measure of fill flash, slow speeds - in the neighborhood of 1/30th, 1/15th, etc. - don't hold any terror for me.  I'd much rather be certain of my f-stop, and the resultant depth of field I am getting, than insist on a certain shutter speed.

I am occasionally in manual exposure mode, say, when in a dark room where aperture priority will dictate to me an unreasonably long shutter speed.  *But, I tell ya, if you only use these cameras in manual mode because, as I have heard on occasion, you "don't trust the camera," or you "don't trust the meter," then you are taking a souped-up Ferrari and driving it like the little old lady going to church on Sunday.*  Why do that?  Use the technology!  Take this puppy out for a spin and see what it can do.[/quote]
Vroooom!!!  

On the next page, he's talking about metering modes and how he mostly lives in "matrix".  But he mentions this:

[quote="Joe McNally]If I have to make exposure value adjustments while I am on matrix, the EV button is handily placed right next to Mr. Shutter Button, and with a quick flip of thumb and forefinger, I get whatever EV I want.  This is significant.[/quote]
When it's all said and done, I don't care what anybody else does. Seriously, whatever works for them is fine with me - no sweat or argument at all, since it doesn't affect me in any way whatsoever.  Shoot standing on one foot while wearing a blindfold and singing the jingle for your favorite fast food place if it works for you - I'm good with it!  

I just don't understand the "manual is easier/faster/better" argument, and I'd really like to understand why they think it is - enough so to make such claims.


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## inTempus (Nov 3, 2009)

Buckster said:


> I just don't understand the "manual is easier/faster/better" argument, and I'd really like to understand why they think it is - enough so to make such claims.


I suspect this notion comes from one of two places:

1)  Old timers that refuse to change.  It's human nature to get comfortable doing something a certain way... and come hell or high water there's no way you're changing it.  It doesn't matter if what they're doing limits them, they're content.  This doesn't make them wrong, it just makes them happy the way things are.

2)  People that honestly don't know any better.  They think it makes them a "pro" to look at the meter in their view finder and to turn the Av and Tv knobs until the indicator is centered.  God forbid you let the camera do the same thing for you instantaneously.   It's just not as creative.    Wait, the meter isn't right and you need to make things darker or brighter?  Just dial in a little EV and be done with it...

Eh, there's no point to this conversation really.  People do what's comfortable for them and in the end, that's all that's important.


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## Breanna (Nov 3, 2009)

I always shoot in manual. When I was learning exposure, I dove straight in. I wanted to learn how to do it all on my own. I've stuck with it. I never realized how many pros shoot outside of full manual. I may have to give his AV mode a try


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## Joves (Nov 3, 2009)

Well for me it is about 50/50. With A I find I have to use the exposure comp to get what I want.


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## MikeBookPro (Nov 3, 2009)

I shoot almost exclusively in Av, but I'm working hard to make the transition to manual.  With kids, I've found that I have to "spray and pray" at times, and it's easier/faster in post when I can apply batch develop settings across images that are all shot with the same exact settings.


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## boneywhitefoot (Nov 3, 2009)

Hi , first post here .Looks like a great place to hang out.
I use Av 90% of the time.
only use M when I want to under or over more than 2 stops,or Im stitching a pano that takes more than two images.
cant see the the use of using M, the light meter is still telling you the same info,you get to dictate the dof and the camera sets the fastest shutter speed, a marrage made in heaven I think.
cheers


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## camz (Nov 3, 2009)

I always shoot in full automatic all the time! I get really lucky with it! 

J/k.  I think I've answered this question more then twice already as I've seen similar threads in the past couple months.But to answer the Ops question:

I shoot AV: When I shoot natural light and I know I don't need any other light source other then the sun.  For me it has to be really really friendly light where it is bright enough and the ratios are fairly consistent.

I shoot Manual: When using artificial light(e.g. flash or strobes) or when I want consistency in the finish or I want to get creative and have full control of the camera.

This is how I see it.  In Manual the advantage is  more consistency in your shots.  The consistency helps alot with the editing if you want to keep a certain exposure throughout a large number of images.  

The advantages of Aperature or Shutter Priority is quick metering.  Great for changing environments or fast moving subjects. Also, if there's sufficient amount of a light source with good even ratios I think shooting in AV or TV is just as good as Manual in these conditions.  You could initially start in AV and if your getting the right exposure, it's easy to transfer those settings in manual mode to constantly get the exposure you want.


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