# Stop Bath or Water?



## benjyman345

hi,

Should I use stop bath or just thoroughly wash out my developing tank after development?

thanks


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## Don Simon

I used to assume it was fine to just use water - and I think most of the time it's not going to cause any problems - but at times I found that fixing took longer, sometimes much longer than it should. Since I started using stop bath all the time I haven't had that problem once; the process has become more consistent, my negatives come out clear every time, and it saves me time on fixing and re-fixing. So yes I recommend stop bath.


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## Bobby Ironsights

I'm Canadian, live up north, and cannot get proper stop shipped to me for a reasonable price.

I've started using diluted vinegar as stop, and never been happier, my fixer lasts WAY longer (35-40%!!!, guesstimation) than when I just used distilled water.


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## nealjpage

Diluted vinegar?  Plain old white vinegar?  Diluted to what ratio?


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## JC1220

Yes, vinegar is acetic acid which is used to make stop bath, a 5 to 10% solution should be fine. Most commercial stop baths use citric acid for the lower odor. You can also purchase both citric and acetic acid and mix your own from scratch, most acetic comes at 28%, glacial acetic is 98% so use it with great care. Hell, squeeze some lemons and use that.


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## Bobby Ironsights

JC1220 said:


> a 5 to 10% solution should be fine.


 
HOLY CRAPOLA! PINHOLED NEGATIVES BATMAN!!!

Proper stop bath is 1.4% w/v acetic acid, and pure white vinegar is 5%. Use the cheap stuff, as it doesn't have any flavourings or salt in it.

I use 3:11, because it's close, although a bit dilute, and 60 mls of acid in 110 mls of water works well in my particular two roll development tank. (I don't actually mix it IN my tank).

It's no savings, as any proper chemical supply house (like jdphotochem), sells acetic cheaper in concentrate form, it just happens that shipping restrictions make a cheap chemical, expensive for me. It's the fact that it's a liquid I think, as a kilo of sodium cyanide powder costs less to ship than an ounce of relatively harmless glacial acetic. Crazy Huh!:er:


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## JC1220

Bobby Ironsights said:


> HOLY CRAPOLA! PINHOLED NEGATIVES BATMAN!!!


 
Not sure I follow you on that one, but a 5-10% solution of vinegar as I stated won't harm a thing.


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## Bobby Ironsights

JC1220 said:


> Not sure I follow you on that one, but a 5-10% solution of vinegar as I stated won't harm a thing.


 
Oh, well then, yes 5-10% won't harm a thing, but is rather more dilute than needed. Sorry, being a chem major I tend to think of things in the conventional way, we never use a % of a %, as that can cause confusion and/or convulsions-coma-death. We always speak of things in the final % of solution.... It's also important to consider the type of measurement used, like w/v, or v/v (weight/volume or volume/volume) etc..etc..


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## sabbath999

I am no chem major, but I do know from years of personal experience that using stop bath is better than just washing. Much better.


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## JC1220

You can go either way as long as you do the same process each time, although I believe the use of a stop bath provides for more consistant results. Using a water bath instead of stop for either film or paper does not "stop" development at that time. So your time from developer to water to fix needs to be the same each time. 

For my printing I use a water bath to help control development, stoping it in the shadows while allowing the highlights to continue developing. But, I always use a stop bath after. This compensating technique does not work with all developer/paper combinations.


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## horfwinzel

Thanks for the tip on the dilution amounts. I will have to try that!

You can see my work at http://www.roxannajphotography.com


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## nealjpage

To bring this back, the Diafine box doesn't recommend using a stop bath.  Any ideas why?


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## Helen B

Two reasons:

-There is no real need for a stop bath with Diafine - the active part is exhausted in the second bath; and

-The second bath contains sodium carbonate, so it is a good idea to avoid acid stop baths.

I don't use an acid stop bath with any developer for normal B&W film, just two quick rinses in tempered tap water before a two-bath alkali fix.

Best,
Helen


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## Skyhawk

JC1220 said:


> For my printing I use a water bath to help control development, stoping it in the shadows while allowing the highlights to continue developing. But, I always use a stop bath after. This compensating technique does not work with all developer/paper combinations.



I used to use that combination with the old Agfa fb papers--especially the matte/semi-matte surface. Worked very well. During an internship shooting sports photography for the Dallas Times Herald, we used stop bath for film as well as for printing--everything was geared towards shaving precious seconds off the production end in order to meet (press) deadline.

For my own stuff these days, I use water as a stop for film development and the method you describe above for prints.

Jeff


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## svl3b

I know this thread is over a year old but I just joined....is using diluted vinegar for a stop only OK for film? Or can it be used when developing enlarged photos too?

Thanks!


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## ksmattfish

svl3b said:


> Or can it be used when developing enlarged photos too?



Sure.  Google "vinegar stop prints" or look for discussions at apug.org


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## JC1220

Recently discussed again here:

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/darkroom/148993-bw-developing-question.html


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