# Do you shoot for free?



## Bossy (Jan 23, 2014)

How do you get over the hump of just starting out? Do you charge to build your portfolio? Do you do it for free? Do you reel in everyone you know to get something up and charge everyone else? 

I've been shooting for while, have a formal education in photography and just moved to a completely new area where I know one other family so networking is rough. My portfolio is old, I haven't shot strangers for over a year due to some life happenings, and I've also decided the direction I want to go in photography so a lot of my old work doesn't apply to the genre. I'm just trying to figure out how to build up a clientele without screwing myself, since I know I am valuable.

I still have to do other stuff on the business side, tax and licenses etc, but I'm not going to get that ball rolling until  I figure out if I even have it in me to get a business going.I also only want to do it part time or less, a couple shoots a month really. 

So how did you do it?


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## ronlane (Jan 23, 2014)

Check out model mayhem. You may be able to get some models that will trade time for prints. If not, you can think of paying some to build up your portfolio or you could do some for free.

I just saw this week a suggested book on here "How to start a home-based photography business by Kenn Oberrecht.


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## Bossy (Jan 23, 2014)

I want to shoot mostly families, laid back portraits, would models really help that? I have a few model shoots already I can add to my port if it would, I just assumed I should stay in my "niche". And models wont really be great word of mouth to help build the business, right?


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## DanielLewis76 (Jan 23, 2014)

I guess photos build your business and models need to be in photos (of the type you want to shoot). 

A model doesn't necessarily mean scantily clothed, full makeup and pouting!


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## 12sndsgood (Jan 23, 2014)

Models can help your profile if your shooting in your style. not sure what group fit into "laid back portraits"  but models can be anywhere from babies to senior citizens. hook up with a male and female model and an 18 year old model and poof instant family photos for your portfolio. I know some models who have kids and you can do sessions with the two of them. again instant family. Not only that models have friends and families as well.

 When I started out which wasn't very long ago I would should anyone I could find. As I have progressed And work is starting to pick up, I still shoot for free but I am a lot more selective about who I shoot for free. Some of my best customers have come from models I have shot for free. Shot a model friend Shaye then a few months later her mom is calling needing senior photos of her son, then a week after those photos were done the mom's sister called me because mom recommended me. Have another model that I am doing a boudoir shoot for next week and she told her friend about me and I am now working on getting her a date worked in to shoot. Pick the right models. do a good job and they will tell everyone they know about you.


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## remylebeau (Jan 23, 2014)

Quite often. But it's not without careful consideration and without good reason, shooting for free doesn't have to mean offering value for no return. 

Often the times I've shot for free have become paying jobs.

One example was for nail polish supplier, they wanted a specific result and I wasn't sure it could be done. So I met with them and got their requirements, spent an afternoon shooting and experimenting. I showed them my results and experience and we all agreed though possible it's not feasible for them in terms of cost. While that specific inquiry didn't lead to work, they liked my professionalism and saw some other services I offered. I wasn't confident I could deliver on the original request, that's why I offered my time for free. I was however, confident that once they met me and saw me work, I'd be able to leave a positive impression, and it opens and opportunity for a conversion to a sale. They have now booked me for shooting another project.

Another example is last year I responded to an ad to be a set photographer for an indie film. Free work. I'd never been on set before, wasn't booked that day, thought I'd be a great experience and also a networking opportunity. Long story short I ended up making a great connection with the make-up artist whom I now work with regularly, and several of the actors on set have done or scheduled head shot sessions with me.

In terms of portfolio building, when I started I saw it as a game where I had to "level" up.

Model Mayhem is a great resource for networking with creatives, but I needed 6 shots with people in them to get approved. So I started off answering ads on Kijiji to build portfolios for local make-up artists. I took those photos to get approval for a MM account. From there I opened casting calls for TFP shoots. When you're work isn't as good the models that agree to work with you won't be as good either. But I find that to be a great challenge, when you learn to direct and pose inexperienced or bad models, think of what you can do with great ones.

I've since built enough of a strong portfolio off MM models TFP shoots, that I'm getting a physical portfolio printed so I can approach agencies to get approval for test shoots. I've gotten to the point where I'm confident my work, but where I'm limited is the range and experience of models. So in order for me to get to the next step I need agency models.

Free work is great. Just be mindful of why you're doing it, figure out what you can offer and what you can gain. Then assess if its worth your time. When you have no portfolio and little experience, free shoots are great, because you can be free to experiment and fail without worry. You really shouldn't be experimenting or failing on a clients dollar. That's what free shoots are for.


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## TheFantasticG (Jan 23, 2014)

I don't always shoot for free but when I do I usually end up drunk regardless on somebody else's tab.


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## remylebeau (Jan 23, 2014)

TheFantasticG said:


> I don't always shoot for free but when I do I usually end up drunk regardless on somebody else's tab.



LMAO! Depending on how much you drink you could be making a killing value wise. I like it...I should start posting work for beer ads


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## DSRay (Jan 24, 2014)

Only for myself


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## paigew (Jan 24, 2014)

I will do shoots for free. When I do, I am very selective about the subject(s) and locations so that I am sure it will benefit my portfolio.


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## imagemaker46 (Jan 24, 2014)

I will shoot for trade, not for free. If someone doesn't have the coin, I will trade off advertising in their magazine, or take product.  I do get a lot of people that ask me for photos and are surprised when I tell them that they have to buy them.  They assume I give things away. I just tell them "When you stop at the grocery store on the way home, just take what you need and walk out without paying" It's the same thing.


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## paigew (Jan 24, 2014)

Let me add that I do shoots for free when *I* need specific shots for my portfolio. Its not like I just do free shoots for people who ask


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## KmH (Jan 24, 2014)

Bossy said:


> I also only want to do it part time or less, a couple shoots a month really.


Why do you want to start a photography business? Income? Fun? Tax deductions? 

I don't think you can "get over the hump" only doing "a couple of shoots a month".
By shooting so infrequently how do you develop and maintain marketing momentum?
You won't be able to leverage (take advantage of) any word of mouth (WOM) advertising clients you do shoot generate.
Which begs the question - How do you plan to advertise, market, and promote your "part-time, or less, a couple shoots a month really" business?

The same applies to your portfolio. How do you plan on getting your portfolio in front of prospective clients?

It costs many times more to generate a new customer than it costs to get a previous customer to return.
It seems your proposed "a couple shoots a month" business model would require almost constant generation of new clients. 

I have often recommended those wanting to build a portfolio do so by advertising a limited time Portfolio Building promotion.
Clients see your normal rates, but are given a substantial "Portfolio Building" discount off of your normal rates.
That way if they return after the promotion has ended they will know the discount will not apply.

Another benefit of doing a promotion is it's a 'call to action' because the promotion is for a limited time. If they snooze, they lose.

By only doing a couple shoots a month it would take a substantial amount of time for you to build a portfolio in that way.
But by using models to build a portfolio you're not generating any 'buzz' or customer generated WOM advertising.

In summary, IMO your major concern should be your proposed business model. I doubt it's sustainable if you only shoot a couple of times a month.


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## Bossy (Jan 24, 2014)

Thanks everyone 

Keith, Im not sure why it wouldn't be sustainable, its not every photographers goal to work full time.


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## KmH (Jan 24, 2014)

How do you plan to advertise, market, and promote your "part-time, or less, a couple shoots a month really" business?


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## tirediron (Jan 24, 2014)

I do a lot of shooting for free.  I do a LOT of work for a local animal charity, and if I have an idea or a concept that I want to try, or maybe a lighting idea, I'll grab someone from MM and do a TF* shoot.  The model gets images, and I get to try out my idea.


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## manicmike (Jan 24, 2014)

I've done a few paid gigs, but I'm not in it to make money right now. Maybe if I stop sucking less I'd be interested in making money.


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## Bossy (Jan 24, 2014)

KmH said:


> How do you plan to advertise, market, and promote your "part-time, or less, a couple shoots a month really" business?


You are really stuck on this "part time" issue aren't you 
I'll market the same way I'd market a full time business and manage my time/book clients so I'm only working part time 
Word of mouth, networking, online presence, same stuff.


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## Bossy (Jan 24, 2014)

tirediron said:


> I do a lot of shooting for free.  I do a LOT of work for a local animal charity, and if I have an idea or a concept that I want to try, or maybe a lighting idea, I'll grab someone from MM and do a TF* shoot.  The model gets images, and I get to try out my idea.


I did lots of TF models before I realized that that wasn't really my favorite stuff to shoot. I excel at unposed/ candid family stuff, which is where I'm at a bit of an impasse, its not something MM can really provide, although I did place a ad thing up for one.

That said, I have another question, I got a bite asking me how much I charged, I replied back. Now its been almost 2 days, would it be weird if I contacted her back and offered to barter for exchange of enhancing my portfolio or should I wait a bit longer to see if shes interested in paying my fee?


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## tirediron (Jan 24, 2014)

Depends; if you don't care about the money, but want the images, sure ('though I'd leave it at least another day regardless), but if you have serious thoughts about moving into business, then stand your ground, and if you get the gig, great, if not, oh well.


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## Scoody (Feb 17, 2014)

I shot a baby shower for free today for a friend.  End of the day, I had lined up two senior portrait shoots, a shoot for Christening, a couple and a maternity shoot.  I shoot for free when I see a networking opportunity.  I do a free portrait for beauty shop owners and they recommend me for weddings and quinceanera to their clients.


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## e.rose (Feb 17, 2014)

Bossy said:


> How do you get over the hump of just starting out? Do you charge to build your portfolio? Do you do it for free? Do you reel in everyone you know to get something up and charge everyone else?
> 
> I've been shooting for while, have a formal education in photography and just moved to a completely new area where I know one other family so networking is rough. My portfolio is old, I haven't shot strangers for over a year due to some life happenings, and I've also decided the direction I want to go in photography so a lot of my old work doesn't apply to the genre. I'm just trying to figure out how to build up a clientele without screwing myself, since I know I am valuable.
> 
> ...



There's no real one way, but I'll give you a quick run-down (and knowing me, "quick" probably means 20 paragraphs, that I shouldn't be spending the time to type up right now, because it's late and I have a LONG, early day tomorrow.  )

Anyway... 

Back home in PA I was shooting for free a lot.

You know what that got me?

More free shoots.

I finally got the gull to start charging, but all I was getting was requests for more free shoots, because the people that were recommending me... I shot for free.

It was a terrible endless cycle.

I started charging back home, but I wasn't charging enough, and while I had one or two people book me here and there, I wasn't making much off the shoot, because even if they were going to pay me, they still didn't want to pay "a lot".

Bands paid nothing... models paid nothing... weddings paid WAY too little... portrait paid not enough...

I was starting to swing back into a depression, which was terrible, because the whole reason I got into photography in the first place was to help pull me OUT of a depression.

Then Keith and I decided we were going to move to Nashville, and that scared me SH*TTLESS, because I was suddenly moving from a town where I wasn't making money, and the only people who knew my name wanted to pay me nothing, to a BIGGER town, where NOBODY knew my name, and probably most DEFINITELY wouldn't wanna give me money... right?

Well we moved here, and I had mixed feelings. I was happy, and excited, and terrified, and stunted, because I didn't know where to start. I had an advantage because I knew a few people from doing audio work with a company here before, and I had a photographer friend that helped me get acclimated within the photography community, but still no real potential *clients*.

I had a random "CD cover" session with someone, that I charged way too little when I got here, and I did 3 lives shoots for free, and a second promo shoot for free, but I didn't really want to keep shooting for free, because from past experiences, I knew what that was going to get me...

Around the time when I decided I had had it with free shoots, a model contacted me about... you guessed it... doing a "trade shoot".

I almost told her to pack her bags, but I held off long enough to "Facebook stalk" her, and discovered that not only was she a pretty girl, but she was a HIGH SCHOOL SENIOR at a high school that was predominantly occupied by people who had money to spend.

So I said yes.

I found hair and makeup to test with as well, we all got together, and we did the session.

It took me a little bit to process the images after the session, but when I finally posted them to Facebook, 24 hours later I had 2 inquiries for senior portrait sessions.

They both booked as senior models, which mean they were getting their session complimentary, but they paid me a non-refundable retainer that covered the cost of my MUA for their session, and I then applied that amount towards product credits.

This time around I was priced the way I should have been in the first place, and so that product credit, pretty much guaranteed sales, because any of the "big ticket items" was not at all covered by that amount of product credit they had coming to them.

My first senior client dropped $1,500 in product.

The second one dropped $600, but I have a feeling the reason they didn't spend more, is because this girl is an aspiring model and already has A MILLION of professionally done photos of her, so they probably didn't value senior portraits as high as my first client did.

My first client also sent me a referral who ended up being my 3rd client. They paid my session fee (she was not a senior model), and I'm currently working with them on product, but they've already expressed that they want the biggest (most expensive) album I offer, and they want something MORE FANCY than I offer for wall portraits, which means an increase in pricing for custom prints and framing that they are more than willing to pay for.

This brings us to 2014...

I had NO IDEA what I was going to do for this year. My senior sessions for 2013 happened late, because my "free shoot" with the first girl didn't happen until the summer-time, when I should have been well into senior season. But THIS YEAR I want to start marketing on time...

So this brings us back to, "So am I gonna shoot for free since that worked the first time?"

No.

I took that because it was an opportunity that I had presented to me at the time, that I wasn't even sure was going to work.

I sat long and hard and thought about HOW I was going to get the momentum moving for this year... and I decided, along with sharing my existing clients' images, I was going to do something to get my clients talking to me about their friends.

Just tonight, I got done designing Mini Accordion albums that I am sending to my clients as gifts.

They have no idea these things are coming. I'm sending each client 3 mini albums that will have my logo and website on the back, along with a letter thanking them for being a client, letting them know what I have in the works for 2014, letting them know that I now have an e-mail list they can sign up for, and THEN... most importantly... I am going to ASK THEM for referrals.

I am planning on including 5 referral cards that they can give to their friends and family that may want to book a session with me.

It's said in sales all the time... "Don't be afraid to *ask for the sale*"

It's the same idea. You need referrals... you're clients have the power to refer you... they were happy with you... so ASK FOR THE REFERRALS. Haha.

So that's my plan. I plan on sending these out, and continuing to try to market online like I have been, and we'll see what happens.

Will it work? Who the hell knows, but it COULD...

I honestly didn't expect that test shoot to work in my favor and I ended up with 3 clients out of it (plus that first senior client, not only sent me a referral, but booked me for a second session for head shots, haha), so this very well COULD work.

So if you feel like you need to shoot for free to rebuild your portfolio... do it. But make sure you do it under YOUR terms.

Don't just put out a FB call for volunteers.

Personally seek out a model... or a family... or whatever it is you're wanting to shoot. Offer to do a test shoot. Offer a few files in exchange for their time. Market with those images and make sure you're pricing and everything is set for the first inquiry.

Don't be afraid to turn people away who try to talk down your pricing (I turned a lot of people away in 2013. I could have shot everyone and their mother, but it would have cheapened my brand and it would have resulted in a jaded, bitter me, because I would have been working way too much for way not enough money).

Once you learn to say no a few times, it gets much easier.

You have to learn to be able to tell the difference between something that will benefit you, (Like doing a test shoot with an aspiring high school model from a wealthy high school where your target clientele lives), and something that won't (like shooting a random children's runway fashion show, giving all your images away for free to the organization who is then going to turn around and sell them to the parents, making money off your work, and THEN asks you to photograph the winner of the runway show, including free photos with that as well).

I rambled a lot... maybe this isn't exactly the info you were looking for... but if you know you're worth it, hold onto that.

Charge what you're worth, don't be afraid to hold onto that, don't be afraid to say no, and don't be afraid to take a few risks if you think it will help you in the end.

If you ever wanna chat, feel free to PM me.


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## e.rose (Feb 17, 2014)

Bossy said:


> I want to shoot mostly families, laid back portraits, would models really help that? I have a few model shoots already I can add to my port if it would, I just assumed I should stay in my "niche". And models wont really be great word of mouth to help build the business, right?



Shooting anyone for free won't necessarily help your word of mouth.

You have to ask yourself what you're doing here:

Are you trying to build your portfolio, or are you trying to find quality leads?

If you're trying to build your portfolio, approach someone personally that you want to photograph - A family, someone you would like to have in your portfolio of laid-back portraits, anything like that.

Models will be good for the portrait genre, and you'll just have to find a family to photograph for your family genre.

If you're trying to find quality leads... those people aren't going to help you do that, but they WILL help you pad your portfolio so that when you start marketing and networking TO FIND those quality leads, you will have something pretty for them to look at. :sillysmi:

So if your portfolio is severely lacking, work on building that and then think more about finding leads once you have a good handle on your portfolio.


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## e.rose (Feb 17, 2014)

DanielLewis76 said:


> A model doesn't necessarily mean scantily clothed, full makeup and pouting!



Exactly.

Find people, either through Model Mayhem, or coworkers, or friends, or whomever... to pose and model the way you want your portfolio to look.

You control the styling, the posing, the whatever. The goal is to have material for you to use, so make sure you have control of everything that goes on and it's something you'll want to show.


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## e.rose (Feb 17, 2014)

Bossy said:


> Thanks everyone
> 
> Keith, Im not sure why it wouldn't be sustainable, its not every photographers goal to work full time.



You're fine.

I know a lot of photographers that are highly successful with their PT photography business.

Everyone has different reasons for wanting to go FT or PT.

Going PT just means you don't shoot as often, because you have other priorities, like another job, or wanting to spend more time with your family, or what have you.

It doesn't mean you market any less, it just means you limit the amount of sessions you take per month. 

This works especially well if you're not depending on JUST your photography business for income. :sillysmi:


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## e.rose (Feb 17, 2014)

Bossy said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> > I do a lot of shooting for free.  I do a LOT of work for a local animal charity, and if I have an idea or a concept that I want to try, or maybe a lighting idea, I'll grab someone from MM and do a TF* shoot.  The model gets images, and I get to try out my idea.
> ...



Nope. Don't do that.

Find someone else to shoot.

Doing that makes you seem desperate and is going to give you a bad rap, because people will start to get the idea that if they simply don't book you, you'll come running with a cheaper or free option.

You gave her your rate... ball is in her court.


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## Bossy (Feb 18, 2014)

I may have a tiny girl crush on you E  thank you so much for all your thought!!


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## e.rose (Feb 18, 2014)

Bossy said:


> I may have a tiny girl crush on you E  thank you so much for all your thought!!



D'awwww 

You're welcome! :sillysmi:

Sent from my iPhone using PhotoForum


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## 12sndsgood (Feb 18, 2014)

See E.Rose you shot one girl free and have almost gotten 3k in work from that single shoot. that to me sounds like a win. I think the difference for a lot of people is there is a difference in shooting for free and shooting something for free to help your business. I used to shoot for free in the past, still do Mainly for test shots and trying new things out. but I have learned to be selective in who I am shooting and what I am shooting. I don't have people coming up to me asking for free shoots because I try and keep it quiet about who I shoot for free. and those that I do shoot help push my business and send people my way. If you want to shoot seniors that's great don't just pick someone random, do like E.rose did and pick that pretty senior girl who has 3000 high school friends in her friends list. You can shoot free and turn it into work, you just have be careful with who you choose or what you choose to shoot.


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## 12sndsgood (Feb 18, 2014)

e.rose said:


> Bossy said:
> 
> 
> > tirediron said:
> ...




I also agree with this, you gave a price so stick with it, Have to learn to walk away from sales at times. I got in the habit of discounting my work too much. Hearing someone say that my full price wasn't bad made me realize I need to just go with the prices I set and stop assuming someone won't pay the price.


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## e.rose (Feb 18, 2014)

12sndsgood said:


> I think the difference for a lot of people is there is a difference in shooting for free and shooting something for free to help your business.



^^^^This is exactly it.

I ALMOST told that girl, "no". But I found out where she went to school which is SMACK in the middle of my target market, so I saw it as an opportunity to get my name in front of some people who go to that school... and that's what happened.

Vs. the DOZENS of other offers I get from people simply trying to take advantage of my skill in exchange for "work for my portfolio", that actually won't help my portfolio at all.

Shooting with that senior was mutually beneficial to both of us. She got material for her modeling portfolio (which is actually what she *wanted* and the reason she contacted me in the first place), and I got material to market with.

Win/win.

But, like you said, I am also very selective about who I do test shoots with.

I test with makeup artists I want to considering hiring for my sessions, if they contact me for test shoots, and I'll test with anyone like Caroline that I feel actually *will* help my portfolio and/or possibly end up in business leads, but I say no to a lot more "free" shoots than I say yes. 

They key is to make sure it will *actually* benefit you, and not allow yourself to be bullied into thinking that it will, when it won't. :lmao:



12sndsgood said:


> I also agree with this, you gave a price so stick with it, Have to learn to walk away from sales at times. I got in the habit of discounting my work too much. *Hearing someone say that my full price wasn't bad made me realize I need to just go with the prices I set and stop assuming someone won't pay the price.*



That's what happened to me too.

All it took was ONE person to pay my full rate, with no argument and no flinching for me to realize that I was fine and needed to stop selling myself short.


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## 12sndsgood (Feb 18, 2014)

Yeah, once you start thinking about who your shooting for free versus just shooting anyone for practice etc. you can start actually making free shoots worth your while. I put up a post in a closed group for a test shoot and got contacted by a mom. I though okay is she like a stage mom or something for her daughter, but I started talking with her and her daughter is really good looking and is in the local high school with tons of friends. so my area, and mom runs a agency for actors and dancers etc. and you start seeing where that can possibly be beneficial to me so the possibility of a free shoot is there. Now the other girl who responded who was out of high school, lived about an hour away so really outside of my demographic compared to the first girl I start seeing there isn't a lot of potential for me to possibly gain any work from that.

To add to that when you do just shoot with anyone. people start knowing you as someone who will shoot anyone, start being selective and people will start knowing your very selective in who you will work with and that in itself boosts your rep as a photographer.


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## MichaelLee (Feb 18, 2014)

Yes, but only for my family members


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## Steve5D (Feb 19, 2014)

I guess I'll never understand the inclination to over-think things.

When I started in "concert photography", I didn't just get up in front of Ted Nugent the first time out. I had to have a band bring me in to shoot in some slimy little local dive. The deal I made with them, since I had no clue what I was doing, is that I would give them photos in exchange for them getting me in the door.

After a while, people started asking "Hey, what do you charge for ________?" Where I may have been inclined, prior to that, to say "Oh, don't worry about paying me", now I was starting to say "Well, I can shoot that for "X" amount". Before too long, people started saying "Okay, let's set it up".

I was not shooting regularly. I was shooting, tops, twice a month when I first started doing it. But I was building a reputation as a pretty good "music photographer". That led to other opportunities. Even now, I'm not shooting all the time, but that's okay. If I was in my 30's and had more energy, I'd be pressing it hard. I'm in my 50's, have already had two careers and, frankly, I'm tired. I shoot what I want to shoot. If someone doesn't want to pay me for that, that's fine. I'll go hang on the beach for a few hours.

I still do shoots for free, but only for family and, depending who it is, friends. At this point, though, even friends usually insist on paying me...


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## I_Shoot_People (Mar 10, 2014)

I do a fair bit of shooting for free... I shoot for my kids primary school for free. The school get the images (for free) to use in their newsletters and year book. The parents however need to purchase print or digital copies, I generally give some of that money back to the school and then Parents will book (and pay) me for family portraits... 
 If you have kids at school then this can be a great stepping stone out into the community for networking and can also sustain a small scale part time business.


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## minicoop1985 (Mar 10, 2014)

I did one shoot for free. I got roped into this by being talked up by a couple relatives. If I did a shoot with a model, it would be for free, since I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing shooting models.


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## rexbobcat (Mar 11, 2014)

I shoot people for free when I'm doing a personal project or if I know they can't pay but I think the shoot would have potential. 

 Or if I'm volunteering for an organization such as the Red Cross

Which is a lot. There's just not a huge market of people who want the kind of photography I can offer here. My area is so saturated with either

A. Natural light photographers who use $200 PS actions and "vintage" filters

B. Established photographers who use a more classic, "timeless," approach with very tried and true lighting/poses/concepts.

I'm neither. I don't like the whole whimsical natural light look, but I'm not good enough with lighting to get that classic look.

As a result, I generally go seeking photos and I don't like to charge people when I am the one who approached them lol. 

Photos don't generally come to me unless someone is referred to me by a friend or a professor as the college.


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## martinmaven (Mar 11, 2014)

Good advice. Models tend to not generate word of mouth much.


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## Luda (Mar 11, 2014)

I think for free you should shoot if you need more experience, to increase your level or to experiment something new. Otherwise you take more responsibility for paid sessions and as a result you will receive better photos for your portfolio.

Good luck!


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