# Recent Senior Portrait Set



## kdthomas

Well, I'm really questioning whether I've done a good job on this set.

2016-037-01

So, there's a bit of a story behind these. This young man's mom is a former coworker of mine, and she wanted some senior portraits. I need practice doing this, so sure, let's go. We went to downtown FTW and my home studio ... and I got off about 120 frames. I wound up with about 10 finalists (a 12-1 turkey/keeper ratio ... meh) ... came back to the house for some crazy character shots, that just ... didn't work the way I wanted. We were tired, and ... oh well.

I sent the lady the proofs and she expressed a little disappointment that there wasn't more selection. OK, well I explained that I got some actor headshots done here in town, and was charged $150 for *one* low-key look, and received exactly one image. A good image ... but just one. She wanted all the shots, and I flatly said no. That would be putting out work I don't believe in, and I'm just not gonna do that. So I met her in the middle and said I'd give her the best ones from each place we stopped whilst traipsing around downtown. This is that set.

She had offered some money, and I said, no, let's just do it TFP.

I guess what I want to ask is: *Am I doing competitive-grade work here? *My intuition tells me I'm not, and if I'm not where do I need to up my game. Sharpening? A little HDR? Am I screwing these up in camera, or is it a matter of post. I have my art shots and all, that are satisfying to me ... but that ain't gonna pay the mortgage if I put my shingle out.


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## Designer

kdthomas said:


> I guess what I want to ask is: *Am I doing competitive-grade work here? *My intuition tells me I'm not, and if I'm not where do I need to up my game. Sharpening? A little HDR?


The frank truthiness is, no, I don't think these are what I would be glad to pay for .  Could be the posing, could be the lighting, could be both.


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## Trever1t

While this genre isn't my forte I'll try to critique. I can see some effort was made for a diverse collection of looks, locations and wardrobe. (Now i look again and I note you've edited the collection for 20 odd images to only a few.) Are you doing competitive grade work? Competitive with whom? Are you ready to start charging, I'd say not. It's both the camera work and the edit. 

You've removed the images I found most curious. The shovel and dog...what was that about?

Of the 3 images that are still up, the crop is strange, and color (at least on my monitor) off. The gun image, as much as I love firearms, inappropriate for senior portrait. 

Honestly in my opinion, marketing is 97% of today's successful photographers. All the talent in the world doesn't guarantee financial success with artistic endeavors. If you've got the hustle then you're most of the way there.


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## kdthomas

Trever1t said:


> You've removed the images I found most curious. The shovel and dog...what was that about?
> 
> Of the 3 images that are still up, the crop is strange, and color (at least on my monitor) off. The gun image, as much as I love firearms, inappropriate for senior portrait.



Yeah I was going for a crazy random thing ... we were just horsing around and being silly here ... No you're right the gun thing was just for them, we agreed beforehand that was never for the senior portraits. This thing was a swing and a miss ... Not my day.

At this point just trying to salvage some education from failure


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## Trever1t

Some of the shots weren't all that bad and for the price a great deal for the 'client' The alleyway and I think there was a stairway or fire escape?


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## Stradawhovious

I'm glad to see a youngster exercising good trigger discipline.


I've seen far worse photos that people have paid for and were happy with.

That said, the lighting is not to my taste on many of them, and in almost all he has a serious case of "hat head".  I would have requested that he not wear the baseball cap the day of the shoot so his hair looked a little less... well... "sculpted".

I'm still learning and my advice is largely questionable, so remember what you paid for it.


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## kdthomas

Trever1t said:


> Some of the shots weren't all that bad and for the price a great deal for the 'client' The alleyway and I think there was a stairway or fire escape?



I liked the alleyway ... the leading lines going to him, just probably should have done something different with his hands.



Stradawhovious said:


> I'm glad to see a youngster exercising good trigger discipline.
> 
> I've seen far worse photos that people have paid for and were happy with.
> 
> That said, the lighting is not to my taste on many of them, and in almost all he has a serious case of "hat head".  I would have requested that he not wear the baseball cap the day of the shoot so his hair looked a little less... well... "sculpted".
> 
> I'm still learning and my advice is largely questionable, so remember what you paid for it.



Yes ... hat head ... had a tough time seeing the right eye. From now on perhaps a rule. "All males must have short hair". Strike one ...

Harsh sun. Folks couldn't get out early morning, so it was midday ... strike two.

The kid was just not enthusiastic about this and seemed like a drag-along type situation. Barely said a word the whole time ... Parents said he was into it, but just didn't seem to want to be there. Mom had to keep telling him to smile. Nothing on the kid, he's great ... just wasn't his thing. Not everyone digs being in front of the camera. Strike three.

Nothing on the kid ... or the folks ... I have to be able to bring it out of folks ... My work on this shoot just ... tanked.

Contrast with this one:

2015-284-01

_that_ shoot was a _blast_.


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## Designer

kdthomas said:


> Contrast with this one:
> 
> 2015-284-01
> 
> _that_ shoot was a _blast_.


Yes, what a difference!


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## Derrel

I looked at the set that's up right now, which has 27 total photos. You asked are you doing competitive-grade work? Well, I have seen much better sets, and much worse sets, and these were done TFP, so if you're competing with other TFP shooters, you're probably right in the middle. High school senior photos run the gamut, in both artistic quality and in technical mastery and technical quality. Senior photos are prone to tropes that come in and go out of style every few years. The alleyway and the brick wall shots...VERY popular now, UNHEARD OF when I was a high school senior. The offbeat B&W shots with the auto pistol and the shovel and the dog, and what looks like a Blood Simple kind of gotta-bury-a-dead-man vibe...the kid probably likes that idea, his grandparents would be appalled by it.

Overall? I think a lot of the on-location shots need better light direction and control...too many dark eyes and catch-as-catch-can lighting for my personal taste. Artistically, emotionally, I like the slightly anti-authoritarian vibe this set has. On the min us side, he seems somewhat emotionally detached, not engaging, not "projecting" much personality in these. I guess I would put this set in between the worst and the best I've seen recently. Somewhere in that huge middle ground.


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## beagle100

Designer said:


> kdthomas said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess what I want to ask is: *Am I doing competitive-grade work here? *My intuition tells me I'm not, and if I'm not where do I need to up my game. Sharpening? A little HDR?
> 
> 
> 
> The frank truthiness is, no, I don't think these are what I would be glad to pay for .  Could be the posing, could be the lighting, could be both.
Click to expand...


I agree, most of those photos look like bad mugshots -  could be the lighting or processing or something else


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## kdthomas

beagle100 said:


> I agree, most of those photos look like bad mugshots -  could be the lighting or processing or something else



I've seen your work, it's quite good. I'd really value any specific advice you can offer.


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## dennybeall

I like the posing but think the shadows on the face in many shots are too severe. You said Senior Pics so I'm at a total loss as to the semi-auto pistol in his hand in a few shots.
If the senior wanted dark and moody to be his THING, you nailed it. But leave out the pistol.....


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## Derrel

I would suggest that one of the worst things you can have when photographing a senior boy is having his mother there, continually telling him to smile. Mothers ruin many,many photo sessions by well-meaning but unwanted and destructive interference that, especially with boys of this age, really kills the subject-photographer rapport. When it comes right down to it, mothers ruin a lot of good photos by interfering in the session, with family members of all ages. The last thing a kid his age needs is his mother around, monitoring his expressions, and by her very presence, killing his willingness to open up. When I was in my twenties, I worked at a number of high-volume studios and have photographed hundreds of teen boys and girls in single-person sessions. The mother hovering is almost always ruinous when the subject is a teen boy. At times, there's a really good chance that the best course of action is to make the mother move well out of the shooting area, or to be sent on a couple of minor errands.

The LAST thing a boy of his age wants is his mommy there. No matter how wonderful and loving and nice a woman she is, her presence is just...unwanted. There's no other way to put it. Get rid of the mom on a kid his age. it makes a huuuuuuuge difference to have her not there.


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## kdthomas

dennybeall said:


> I like the posing but think the shadows on the face in many shots are too severe. You said Senior Pics so I'm at a total loss as to the semi-auto pistol in his hand in a few shots.
> If the senior wanted dark and moody to be his THING, you nailed it. But leave out the pistol.....



Yeah the shots with the gun/shovel/dog were just for fun. Not to put up in the school hallway LOL ... I actually wanted him soaking wet in a cheap thrift store suit ... But it didn't happen ... So I said pajamas


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## dennybeall

I understand the props were for fun. I don't understand some thinking on senior portraits though. I would think the student would understand the photos may follow them to college and to work and that they would want photos that would say something about them they could still be proud of at 30 or 40.
But then I'm an old fogie so who knows................


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## vintagesnaps

I agree about the light and shadows etc. particularly with the B&W. There are some that look nice enough (school jacket, plaid shirt) that would be ones I'd think would be appropriate to give the family - complimentary, no charge. I don't think I would have given more photos; probably better to just provide 5-10 finished final products.

Best thing probably would have been to suggest where the friend could get photos done professionally. It doesn't often seem to end up really working out that well to take photos for free. Now the friend's not happy with these and wants more (and the teenager probably isn't having it).

The problem with the photos with the gun etc. is that if the family now has them, there's no telling where they may end up. You don't need to have this kid get into trouble and then the family isn't happy that you took those type photos and they're now 'out there' etc. and it ends up coming back on you that the photos somehow added to a problem situation.


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## JacobPhoto

I think the main problem is that images look flat. And the reason is the light. My advice is not to be afraid of direct daylight but try to use it. Your image #18 (on the stairs) is quite good, pay your attention to the light there. It's hard to use natural light at midday, but you absolutely need to take its advantages in the late afternoon. Using reflector is also a good practice to reach volume.

And what lens do you use?


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## Alexander Dingley

kdthomas said:


> Well, I'm really questioning whether I've done a good job on this set.
> 
> 2016-037-01
> 
> So, there's a bit of a story behind these. This young man's mom is a former coworker of mine, and she wanted some senior portraits. I need practice doing this, so sure, let's go. We went to downtown FTW and my home studio ... and I got off about 120 frames. I wound up with about 10 finalists (a 12-1 turkey/keeper ratio ... meh) ... came back to the house for some crazy character shots, that just ... didn't work the way I wanted. We were tired, and ... oh well.
> 
> I sent the lady the proofs and she expressed a little disappointment that there wasn't more selection. OK, well I explained that I got some actor headshots done here in town, and was charged $150 for *one* low-key look, and received exactly one image. A good image ... but just one. She wanted all the shots, and I flatly said no. That would be putting out work I don't believe in, and I'm just not gonna do that. So I met her in the middle and said I'd give her the best ones from each place we stopped whilst traipsing around downtown. This is that set.
> 
> She had offered some money, and I said, no, let's just do it TFP.
> 
> I guess what I want to ask is: *Am I doing competitive-grade work here? *My intuition tells me I'm not, and if I'm not where do I need to up my game. Sharpening? A little HDR? Am I screwing these up in camera, or is it a matter of post. I have my art shots and all, that are satisfying to me ... but that ain't gonna pay the mortgage if I put my shingle out.






On the competitive side I would lean towards no, the light needs to be controlled or modifiers used. Also you need to make sure you have an expectation of shots to be delivered at the end. Make sure you and the client are in agreement on what is expected then you put a shot list together based on those and once you get those out of the way you can do creative shots. Good luck in the future though!

-Alex


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