# how to shoot a parade at night



## rubbertree (Nov 5, 2008)

I have an event coming up that I'm starting to prepare for and would like your advice.
It will be a night Christmas parade, 5:30 in the evening in December. It will be pitch black by then. This is the scenario:
Very small town, shops with lights on one side of the street, not much on the other. The trees going down the middle of the street will have Christmas lights on them.
I do not have an external flash, only what's available with my Nikon D80. However, I do have a SB-600 sitting in my shopping cart at Vistek right this moment. Checkout now? hehe!
I cannot set up strobes or other lights, I need to be able to move freely around.
Should I set up on the side of the street with no lights, facing the other side of the street with the shops and lights? That would give some background lighting? Or should I set up on the side of the street that has the shops and lights, and use that light as ambient lighting?
How do you meter for light at night? If I face the shops, do I meter for the light coming off them and then use the flash to fill in the parade?
Lenses are listed in my siggie, what lens would you use?
I appreciate your help!


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## fightin14 (Nov 5, 2008)

I would say the 1.8 or the 2.8 just because they are faster but someone with more knowledge can enlighten both of us.


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## fightin14 (Nov 5, 2008)

Also go test it out if you can prior to the parade.


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## tirediron (Nov 5, 2008)

I'd suggest the 1.8 as well; crank you ISO up to 800 or higher, and keep reviewing your shots. As was suggested, try and scout out the location ahead of time, do some test shots of the area just to see what your exposures are like.


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## Chris Stegner (Nov 5, 2008)

Not sure how the D80 is but my Canon 5D is pretty nice to me at 1600ISO. If you're not going with large prints you might try it with available light and go to 1600?


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## JerryPH (Nov 5, 2008)

Practice, practice, practice!!!


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## rubbertree (Nov 5, 2008)

location scouting has already been done, I live in this town so know the area and it's only one street, there are only a few locations to chose from!
I will be practicing ahead of time, once the Christmas lights go up on the trees so I can determine what the lighting will be.
D80 is not kind at an ISO of 1600. But I know that upping the ISO will be necessary. I am considering buying noise reduction software.
a f/1.8 I risk having such a shallow depth of field though. I would need much more depth to capture the parade?
I'm nervous about the flash, having never used an external before. That's why I'm getting it now, so I can get some practice in.


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## rubbertree (Nov 5, 2008)

oh yes, and my other issue is that while of course I will go out there to practice with the available lighting and the new flash, I cannot recreate the floats and lighting that may be coming off them so worry about how accurate I can even predict the scene to be.


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## JerryPH (Nov 5, 2008)

Learn to understand depth of field.  An aperture of F/1.8 is no guarantee of a shallow DOF.  Yes it is shallower than F/8, but once you understand how it works, you can use this knowledge to your advantage and get a DOF measured in feet instead of centimeters at large apertures.

Noise reduction software:  Imagenomic's Noiseware Pro is the best on the market currently, but if you play your cards right, learn how to expose properly, you can minimize noise in your camera, even at high ISO and reduce your need for noise reduction levels that destroy detail.

D200's are not known for being clean at ISO 1600 (no cleaner than your D80), but this level of low noise is what you can achieve with the right knowledge and practice:

ISO 1600:​ 



The Zone System (google it)... learn the version for digital cameras, practice it, perfect it... it will help you to:
1 - know what to meter for in the current conditions
2 - how to meter for in the current conditions

Read "Understanding Exposure" by Bryon Peterson (its a book).  That also will add to your final results if you use the info in that book properly.

I used to be concerned with high ISO noise in low light.  Between understanding what to meter on, how to properly expose and a good noise reduction software, it's just basically not an issue anymore.

Having the camera in manual or aperture priority will likely give you best results when you understand what you are doing.  With practice, even if the conditions are not exactly the same at the event as when you are practicing, you have to learn to compensate and adjust.  Not only will conditions differ from night to night, but on the same night... from picture to picture!

Flash... in wide, large areas, a flash will hurt more than it will hinder.  Learn how to take advantage of ambient light and learn how to control your light when you want to focus on a smaller area.  In those conditions when it's just not enough, do not use a flash to light your scene, consider it as a low powered filler, giving you just enough to let you get the shot, a little oumph to add a tiny punch to a picture, nothing more.  That way you are also not using the flash on full power, trying to uselessly light the street 50 feet away from you.

Again... practice, practice, practice!​


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## rubbertree (Nov 5, 2008)

Learn to understand depth of field.  An aperture of F/1.8 is no guarantee of a shallow DOF.  Yes it is shallower than F/8, but once you understand how it works, you can use this knowledge to your advantage and get a DOF measured in feet instead of centimeters at large apertures. [/quote]

How??? Teach me! I have practiced an ran test shot after test shot with the 50mm f/1.8 and cannot get a depth of field measured in feet at 1.8. How do you achieve that?



JerryPH said:


> but if you play your cards right, learn how to expose properly, you can minimize noise in your camera, even at high ISO and reduce your need for noise reduction levels that destroy detail.



even at night? Night always shows the noise so much worse.


JerryPH said:


> The Zone System (google it)... learn the version for digital cameras, practice it, perfect it... it will help you to:
> 1 - know what to meter for in the current conditions
> 2 - how to meter for in the current conditions
> 
> ...



Off to google Zone System, thanks for that. Yes, I have the BP book and understand exposure and how to meter, I've just never done an event at night and am uncertain of the conditions.

I am reading as much as I can on the flash as well, I know not to use it full power but just to add a bit of additional light. I hope it gets here quick so I have plenty of time to practice with it. I'll be reading strobist for the next few weeks.

Thank you.


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## fightin14 (Nov 6, 2008)

I have a d200 and the noise at 1600 is quite bad IMO. I don't like going higher than 1000.


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## JerryPH (Nov 6, 2008)

rubbertree said:


> How??? Teach me! I have practiced an ran test shot after test shot with the 50mm f/1.8 and cannot get a depth of field measured in feet at 1.8. How do you achieve that?



You did not listen to me.  I said LEARN about DOF and how it works, after that, the answer to that will be obvious.  

Question:  Why is my DOF at F/1.8 less than a centimeter in this shot:







But several inches in this shot at a bigger aperture of F/1.4? (taken using the SAME lens and camera):





Once you understand how DOF works, you can answer that question.



rubbertree said:


> even at night? Night always shows the noise so much worse.


Don't expect the impossible unless you have a D700 or D3 (lol)... you will always get some noise with your setup.  I did not say you could eliminate it 100%, I said that if you hit the exposure on the head, it will be drastically reduced.  That works in the day as well as at night... but the differences are more noticeable in night or low light shots.

You're doing well, don't stop studying and practicing!


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## rubbertree (Nov 6, 2008)

JerryPH said:


> You did not listen to me.  I said LEARN about DOF and how it works, after that, the answer to that will be obvious.
> 
> Question:  Why is my DOF at F/1.8 less than a centimeter in this shot:
> 
> ...



you are killing me here!! haha, but I appreciate it very much.

Why? Because you are so much closer to the first shot than the second? The distance from you to the second item gives it a greater DOF even at f/1.8?


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## IvyJade (Nov 6, 2008)

I can tell I'm going to have to learn the lingo....heh


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## JerryPH (Nov 6, 2008)

Ok, I've had a bit of fun... let me just post something that I posted to a friend on the board here...

Those that said distance... well, you are partly right.  

I kinda stumbled on this after playing and hearing the 1/2 answers that others told me. I was never satisfied with their answers because there were holes in the explanations (big aperture = shallow DOF, small apertures = deep DOF, but not always... WHY??), and after doing some simple experimenting on my own found out that:

Depth of field (DOF) is the result of several factors.  Not just distance but the ratio of distances from:
- camera to subject
- camera to area behind subject
- subject to area behind them
- aperture (obviously)
- focal length
- focus point

So...
- When you increase focal length without changing anything else, it decreases DOF. That's why it is possible to more easily blur objects at small apertures like F/7 at 200mm instead of (for example), 20mm (which would have a very deep DOF).

- When you decrease the ratio of distance from subject to camera vs distance from subject to area behind them, DOF decreases (ie:  Photographer doesn't move, takes a pic of subject between him and the background... and background is ever so slightly blurred.  Do NOTHING but have the subject cut the distance between you and the camera by 50%, focus on him, take the pic... the background is much more blurred!)

- Obviously... smaller aperture, greater DOF, no surprises there.

- Focus point... decides what the ratios will be concerning your camera to subject, camera to background and your subject to background will be

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For example... you've likely seen me post this pic many times before here on this forum:





It's at an aperture of F/7 which some may think should cause a very deep DOF (ever hear of "F/8 and be there"?  Not always true!!), but it has lots of bokeh, thanks to a 200mm focal length AND lots of room between the subject and area behind them AND little amount of room between camera and front person vs focus point (subject).

---------------------------------






F/1.8, what most will say has a very shallow DOF... yet at 30mm, what is my DOF here?  Yards!  Applying the info above explains why.

-------------------------------

If you think about it a few minutes, it becomes incredibly simple!  :lmao:

-------------------------------

To my friend whom I posted the PM to... I wrote the post really fast and made a couple of typos.  It is more technically correct in this post than in what I sent you... sorry!


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## JerryPH (Nov 6, 2008)

IvyJade said:


> I can tell I'm going to have to learn the lingo....heh



Wait till you find out that this is JUST one small aspect of what people consider the rudimentary basics of photography.

Don't worry, the headaches stop after a few months.. lol


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## akash011 (Nov 7, 2008)

I cannot set up strobes or other lights, I need to be able to move freely around.
Should I set up on the side of the street with no lights, facing the other side of the street with the shops and lights? That would give some background lighting?
please solve this problem.


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## JerryPH (Nov 7, 2008)

What problem?? Sheesh!  Take a single picture from BOTH sides of the street while practicing and decide which serves you better!


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## rubbertree (Nov 7, 2008)

JerryPH said:


> Ok, I've had a bit of fun... let me just post something that I posted to a friend on the board here...
> 
> Those that said distance... well, you are partly right.
> 
> ...



Yes, I am aware of these factors will determine the DOF. However, I am still amazed of the result of that last picture, taken at f/1.8, that's crazy!
I just got my 50mm f/1.8 about a month ago. I used it during a family portrait session of my friends and their new baby. It worked beautifully when it was just the three of them, holding baby in either lap. But in a couple shots they brought their dog in and lay her down in front of them and in those shots, the dog was on the soft side of focus. I was about 15 feet away from them. This is where I get my concern regarding this parade. If I am standing on the sidewalk using this same lens, I will risk some of the image being OOF? I am going to practice with it some more and take the shots from a few more feet way, which should then bring more of it in focus. Also need to decide if I should use my 50mm f/1.8 or the 7-200 f/2.8 for this event. There is a second part of the event that will require my wide angle and the tripod... so much to prepare for here.

I just received my SB-600 in the mail yesterday also, first time using a flash (I ordered it from McBain's it was here in ONE day!). More things to learn before this even next month! Also, I just learned that the Christmas lights down the main street might not go up until the day of the event and also one of the major stores on that street is having it's entire facade being redone and it might not be done in time for the event. Tough to practice when all that light might not be there ahead of time.

Thanks Jerry for taking the time to work through all of this with me, I really appreciate it.


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