# Chemicals



## PixelRabbit (Mar 22, 2014)

Now that spring is kiiiiiinda here and I can actually use my darkroom without having to thaw it first I totally just ordered my darkroom chemicals!! 





I have some film shot and ready to go.  This is going to be a rough couple weeks waiting for them to arrive, I wanna play NOW! lol


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## vimwiz (Mar 22, 2014)

To be fair, you dont really need a true  darkroom to process in (though obviously you do to print), so long as you load the tank in a light tight environment (perhaps a changing bag). 

What chemicals are you using?


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## PixelRabbit (Mar 22, 2014)

Hey Vimwiz, true but I'm going to be printing also so to only be able to learn the first half would have been painful I think lol.

I got:

Hc110
Ilford Stopbath and Rapid Fixer

I have:
Afga Developer 
Photo-flo


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## Derrel (Mar 22, 2014)

I used to use HC-110 and the white-jug, Ilford fixer!!!

HC-110 keeps a long time if left in its bottle, and mixed up from the "syrup" concentrate to "working solution" developer. If you're mixing it that way, from concentrate each time, it is CRITICAL to follow a strictly controlled measuring and rinsing and mixing regimen. It takes only 1/2 ounce of HC-110 "syrup" mixed with 15.5 ounces of water to do two rolls of 35mm film, but since the amount of concentrate is so small, it needs to be measured very carefully, the SAME way each time, in the same measuring vessel [graduated cylinder is the best], and the cylinder needs to be rinsed say 4 times with the developing water, so that you get the same amount of syrup into the working solution. You cannot afford to be sloppy with HC-110 when it comes to measuring the concentrate, and how it is transferred from the graduated cylinder to the working solution.


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## PixelRabbit (Mar 22, 2014)

Ah thanks Derrel! I will be sure to follow that process


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## vimwiz (Mar 22, 2014)

Yes,Derrel is right. Measurement is extremely important (As much as temp control). I use Ilord LC29 syrup  at 1+29 dilution (10ml does a roll) so you need to be very accurate. HC-110 sounds similar.

Buy very accurate lab measuring cylinders -  *not* kitchen jugs!

I have seperate labelled cylinders for Develop,stop,fix,water and never mix them,


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## PixelRabbit (Mar 23, 2014)

Thanks Vim 

Our dear Timor went out and picked me up all of the gear I needed to set up the room, I think equipment wise I'm good to go... Now to just learn!!


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## vimwiz (Mar 23, 2014)

I used these PDFs (I use ilford film and chemicals)

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/200629163442455.pdf - Processing your first black and white film
http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/20106281054152313.pdf - HP5+ Technical Information
http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/2011427124733149.pdf - Ilford Developers

 The first one is generic,  the basic steps for processing are the same between brands, just use the right times and concentrations, and may be worth a look at for you. Just get the right info for your film/developer from the manufacturer.


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## table1349 (Mar 23, 2014)

Mixing chemicals is like woodworking. "Measure twice, cut once."  Measure twice, mix carefully.


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## DSRay (Mar 23, 2014)

Consistency is the keyword.  You can miss the mix measurement and the temp as long as you consistently miss it EVERY time. Then there's the agitation (of the mix) during development.  Have fun! :mrgreen:


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## petrochemist (Mar 23, 2014)

In the lab. I find graduated disposable plastic syringes are better than measuring cylinders for relatively small volumes and viscous samples. You have a positive displacement, and only have the chemical in the syringe.
I know 2ml & 5ml syringes are available in chemists though I've not seen the larger ones there. 
Syringes are also best for volumes under 1ml for any liquid, but I doubt you'll be using µl quantities of anything.
We have disposables from 2ml up to 60ml, and others from 0.5µl to 1.5 litres.


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## vimwiz (Mar 23, 2014)

For things of less than 10ml I agree, a graduated pipette is better.

RE: Syringes, thats a bad idea. You would have to buy syringes from engineering supplies places (i.e. for grease) not pharmacies (They will only have small 2ml insulin ones, and more expensive, as sterile, plus may not give them to you unless you look like a junkie)


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## Josh66 (Mar 23, 2014)

vimwiz said:


> RE: Syringes, thats a bad idea. You would have to buy syringes from engineering supplies places (i.e. for grease) not pharmacies (They will only have small 2ml insulin ones, and more expensive, as sterile, plus may not give them to you unless you look like a junkie)


I use a glass syringe.  They're not too hard to find in 5mL, 10mL (that's what I use), or 20mL sizes.

Yes, they're more expensive than disposable syringes, but still not really "expensive".

HC-110 is too thick for a syringe anyway though...  I use mine for Rodinal.


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## Derrel (Mar 23, 2014)

Josh66 said:


> vimwiz said:
> 
> 
> > RE: Syringes, thats a bad idea. You would have to buy syringes from engineering supplies places (i.e. for grease) not pharmacies (They will only have small 2ml insulin ones, and more expensive, as sterile, plus may not give them to you unless you look like a junkie)
> ...



The handiest syringe for use with thick liquids is one I got from my dentist...they have a long, curved "needle" made entirely of plastic, and are called Monoject 412 syringes.

Monoject Curved Tip Syringe 12cc l Pet Health Market

Only drawback? No graduation markings...


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## terri (Mar 23, 2014)

I'm excited for you, Rabbit!!!!!!!!!!       You're going to have a blast!


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## petrochemist (Mar 23, 2014)

Josh66 said:


> I use a glass syringe.  They're not too hard to find in 5mL, 10mL (that's what I use), or 20mL sizes.
> 
> Yes, they're more expensive than disposable syringes, but still not really "expensive".
> 
> HC-110 is too thick for a syringe anyway though...  I use mine for Rodinal.



The disposable ones often have a rubber seal that enables them to get much better suction than the cheap glass syringes. You can get gas tight glass syringes, with PTFE plunger tips, but they're considerable more expensive (>£50). 
I think I've seen disposable syringes sold in car paint shops in the past, and Derrel's link has a whole range of other ones. A needle is not necessary unless you have to draw up from deep in a container, or you're working with volatile fluids (or injecting into junkies...)

My wife's brought several cheap syringes from the chemist in the past for giving oral medicines to the kids, even though we get them in boxes off 100 at work.


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## Derrel (Mar 23, 2014)

If you want to eliminate the need for repeated precise measuring, just mix up a big batch of HC-110 as directed on the label, then use a funnel and fill 8,12, or 16 plastic water bottles with working solution, squeeze the solution right up to the top, and then screw the caps on. Rinse off the bottles, then store them ready to go. You'd normally develop at 68 degrees Farenheit, and you can use a water bath to get the bottle of developer up to the proper temperature in the winter and spring.

HC-110 in the Dilution B strength is what many people like to use. It's a good compromise between overall development time, economical use of the concentrate, and it gives a long enough development time to allow for consistent,and reliable, repeatable results. HC-110 can be used mixed very strongly, but when development times are ridiculously short, as in 3 minutes to 5 minutes, it's tough to get consistent results, since there's VERY little room for minor variables in dilution or temperature.

Keep in mind: HC-110's developing times have been re-calculated by Kodak in the modern era, and a number of people feel that the published times are too short to build full emulsion speed and shadow detail. I personally like 2 rolls, .5 ounce HC-110, 15.5 oz water at 68 degrees F., and eight minutes, with a water pre-soak of 1 minute, pour in mixed HC-110 initial agitation of 20 seconds and a slam! onto the counter to dislodge air bubbles at the start of the development cycle (metal tank,metal lid, metal reels), then agitation 10 seconds on the top of each remaining minute, drain, water rinse/stop bath/fixer/wash/Photo-Flo/hang dry or film dryer.

Agitating once for 10 seconds at the top of each minute is different than 5 seconds every 30 seconds. The thing about development times is that they need to be personalized to YOUR OWN workflow and equipment, which includes how you set the Exposure Index level (ISO normal? lower? higher?) for the film; how you meter (for the shadows? mid-tones?); your own thermometer's inaccuracy (many dial thermos get wonky after years!); and so on. Also, how "thin" of a negative do you want to create? What type of enlarger will be used? Diffusion? Condenser? What contrast grade of paper one wants to print on is also a factor. Published B&W negative film development times are merely *suggested starting points*, and are FAR FROM being absolutes.

Anyway, have FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Josh66 (Mar 23, 2014)

I believe it was in The Darkroom Cookbook where I read about this, but I have been doing it for a while now and like the results:

Multiply your "normal" developing time by 1.5 (add 50% to your time), but then you agitate continuously for the first minute, then for 10 seconds every 3 minutes.

I try to work it out so that my developing time is a multiple of three plus one, lol.  (16 minutes, for example.)


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## PixelRabbit (Apr 17, 2014)

Henry's hates me, this order STILL hasn't arrived yet, there was a possible 14 day wait on one of the items, I saw it when I ordered it, it shows as in stock now but stock low... tick tock!


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## terri (Apr 17, 2014)

boooooo!!!    Making a darkroom bunny wait!


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## PixelRabbit (May 3, 2014)

Still nothing! I'm putting together a timeline of this transaction and my camera repair debacle, both are still unresolved but I'm going to post where I'm at so far so I have a record here too 


Online order of darkroom chemicals from Henrys.com
March 22nd place order for chemicals online, one listed as 14-21 Days to ship because of availability.
April 22nd get shipment sent email notification from Henry's.
April 25th get call from Sameday courier (lol oh the irony!) to set up an appointment Monday April 28th 9-5 to get my package approximately 100 miles from Toronto to Hanover Ontario.
Monday is a no show.
Tuesday April 29th get a call saying it didn't make it on the truck, set up another appointment for Wednesday April 30th 9-5.
Wednesday no show.
Thursday May 1st I call them, she shows it out for delivery on the 30th, they don't know where it is, she will call me back after she gets more information.
Friday May 2nd still no call back.


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## timor (May 3, 2014)

We have a problem here. How much do pay for shipping ?


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## cgw (May 3, 2014)

If you're in TO/GTA, might FilmPlus have what you need?


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## gsgary (May 3, 2014)

PixelRabbit said:


> Still nothing! I'm putting together a timeline of this transaction and my camera repair debacle, both are still unresolved but I'm going to post where I'm at so far so I have a record here too
> 
> 
> Online order of darkroom chemicals from Henrys.com
> ...




What a bummer i just walk into my store and buy it off the shelf, i thought the US was in the 21st century


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## MartinCrabtree (May 3, 2014)

gsgary said:


> What a bummer i just walk into my store and buy it off the shelf, i thought the US was in the 21st century



It is. However Ontario is located a bit north of the US.


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## timor (May 3, 2014)

gsgary said:


> What a bummer i just walk into my store and buy it off the shelf, i thought the US was in the 21st century


Actually US is in 22nd century already when comes to photography.. On the other hand try to buy photographic glycin in your England. Nope. But US has it. Not in every corner store, but delivered fresh and quickly right to the door. Pixel made mistake ordering from Henry's. She should order from LA. Film photography in Canada is seen not very favourable, rather a bad thing. Yeah... we so modern and progressive.


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## PixelRabbit (May 4, 2014)

cgw said:


> If you're in TO/GTA, might FilmPlus have what you need?





gsgary said:


> What a bummer i just walk into my store and buy it off the shelf, i thought the US was in the 21st century


Cgw and Gary, not in TO I'm a couple hours north of the city, living in a rural area has it's small drawbacks like not having everything at your fingertips like in the city, usually it's a non issue... until a shipping company can't seem to get a package 100mi in over a week lol. 


timor said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> > What a bummer i just walk into my store and buy it off the shelf, i thought the US was in the 21st century
> ...





timor said:


> We have a problem here. How much do pay for shipping ?



Yeah T,  I should not have ordered through them, many lessons learned about Henry's as of late lol  I have to check the order but I'm positive that I paid way too much for shipping at this point.
 I've talked to the local shop, Fotoart.com,  about getting chemicals through them and they can get me what I need.  They have been awesome, they approached me and offered to help out when they heard about what was going on with Henry's.  From here on out I will be dealing with them.


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## MartinCrabtree (May 4, 2014)

I'd be sure to let Henry's know why you'll be spending elsewhere.


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## PixelRabbit (May 5, 2014)

MartinCrabtree said:


> I'd be sure to let Henry's know why you'll be spending elsewhere.



Oh they will know, both about this and about being rude when I was at the brick and mortar dropping off my 60d for service costing them a sale AND about their repair service that tried to diagnose my camera with water damage based on the outside of the camera and no intent to open it until I asked for pictures of the water damage INSIDE the camera, (they opened it to find no water damage and are covering it under the extended warranty) they are batting 1000 !


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## timor (May 5, 2014)

PixelRabbit said:


> I've talked to the local shop, Fotoart.com,  about getting chemicals through them and they can get me what I need.


That will be much better idea. Deal with someone,who cares. But before you place any order (for film photography) with them talk to me about options.


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## gsgary (May 5, 2014)

PixelRabbit said:


> Cgw and Gary, not in TO I'm a couple hours north of the city, living in a rural area has it's small drawbacks like not having everything at your fingertips like in the city, usually it's a non issue... until a shipping company can't seem to get a package 100mi in over a week lol.
> 
> Yeah T,  I should not have ordered through them, many lessons learned about Henry's as of late lol  I have to check the order but I'm positive that I paid way too much for shipping at this point.
> I've talked to the local shop, Fotoart.com,  about getting chemicals through them and they can get me what I need.  They have been awesome, they approached me and offered to help out when they heard about what was going on with Henry's.  From here on out I will be dealing with them.



When I buy direct from Ilford it comes the next day and its free if you spend over £50


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