# Body or Lens?



## neih59 (Jul 26, 2012)

Hello everyone.  I'd like to take my photography more serious at this point.  I currently have a Canon 7D with Canon ef-s 50mm 1.4 and ef 28-135mm.  My question is, should I sell my current setup and upgrade to a Canon 5D MII and temporary use the current 28-135mm i have now, or should I keep the 7D and buy a more expensive lens, such as a Canon 24-105mm L lens or 24-70mm L?  

Your suggestion is greatly appreciated.  It's been killing me.


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## KmH (Jul 26, 2012)

*Forum: Photography Beginners' Forum
*Don&#8217;t be shy. Use one of the forums in the - ​Photo Galleries - Photos submitted by members for general display or critique - section of TPF if you want C&C improvement tips on some of the photos you have taken. ​For [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]equipment[/FONT] specific questions, use one of the forums in the Camera Forum section of TPF.[/FONT]​ Brushing up on some of the basics? The Beginner's forum is for asking basic technical photographic questions about things like shutter speed, aperture, ISO, white balance, metering ​[FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]modes[/FONT][/FONT], focusing modes.

It depends a lot on what you shoot.​


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## SCraig (Jul 26, 2012)

What do you wish to be able to do but are unable to do with your current equipment?  If you answer "Nothing" (or "Nothing, but") then I'd suggest saving your money until you can answer with something else.


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## neih59 (Jul 26, 2012)

Thanks for the quick reply.  I'd like to start taking pictures of events (birthdays/weddings/etc/), but with my current equipment, I feels so...amateur.  Everything looks like it's coming from a $100 camera.  I'm not sure if it's the way I shoot, or if I needed to do some post editing?  Other photographers' wedding pictures come out so colorful and smooth.  Is it s a standard to do some sort of color correction for wedding/event pictures?  

What is typical process as far as taking wedding pictures?  

Thanks.


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## SCraig (Jul 26, 2012)

I'm not familiar with Canon equipment however I have yet to see a Canon DSLR that couldn't take excellent photographs when it's used properly.  Perhaps I'm out of order but it sounds to me like you've got a lot to learn.  When you get to the point that your camera and lenses are holding you back you'll know it.

Light, and how you use it, is at least as important to a finished photograph than the camera that captured it.  Learn to use light and forget about what model camera you have.

Yes, most photographs are post processed.  Weddings and portraits frequently have a great deal of experience on the back side of the camera or a great deal of work on the final image.


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## cayto (Jul 26, 2012)

You have a nice body and nice lens, maybe you just need to get full potencial of your equipment


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## Ernicus (Jul 26, 2012)

The 7D is a great body, one I'd like when I decide to make a Canon setup.  That camera is capable of stunning photography, well most any is...if used properly.

I won't jump on the bandwagon of saying "learn your tools", I think it's obvious you should.

but as to a 7D vs. a 5d MII.  Huge jump there from prosumer to pro gear.  IMO, just asking the question means you are not ready for pro gear.  Not to mention the differences you'll need in glass.  

I would say keep what you have, invest in good glass.  Learn...learn...learn...practice....practice...practice.  When you feel you are ready to go pro, and make a living out of photography, and your photographs reflect that, then look to a pro gear upgrade.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Jul 26, 2012)

New/better toys are always nice


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## briz50 (Jul 26, 2012)

Try this book I found it to be very useful along with  A LOT of practice when I first upgraded from my T2I for the 7D 
[h=3]David Busch's Canon EOS 7D Guide to Digital SLR Photography they are about $18.00 from amazon. Hope this helps[/h]


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## neih59 (Jul 26, 2012)

I agree with you all that my post sounds someone ignorance.  It's not that I don't know how to use my gears, it's just that the outcome is not as good as I want it.  So my question should rather be "Does the camera makes the picture more, or the lens?"

With the right gears, is it all about lighting/composition, or how good you are at photoshop?  

Nevertheless, I'm still learning, and I'm new here.  Definitely looking forward to learn more from you all.  Thank you all for the comments.


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## Ernicus (Jul 26, 2012)

Start with dropping the S off the word gear when referring to your equipment.  ;-)

Once you have a good camera body to work with, which you do, you should focus on quality lenses.

I don't mean to sound like a d1ck, but having to ask "does the camera make the picture more, or the lens", really means you still need to learn a lot about photography.  That's not a slam, just a thing that points out you have lots to learn still, or you'd already know.

Even without the "right" gear, its all about lighting and comp and other factors, photoshop not being high on the list at all.

A good photog can take a photograph with a point and shoot better than a bad one with pro gear.


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## JohnTrav (Jul 26, 2012)

Seems like you just need to do some research and get more comfortable with your camera the 7D is capable of taking great photos with the lenses that you have. I have those same two. I have seen some awesome pictures come from them. I have taken some pictures that are really good with that same set up too. I have also taken some really lousy ones also.

Read some photography books and see if you can learn some stuff before you go out spending your money on equipment you might not need. Go on amazon and look up the author Scott Kelby. He has 4 volumes of his digital photography book and they have good information in them about different techniques you can use to get photographs like "the pros" he says.

Also just brows around this website at other peoples threads and you can learn a lot about what other people have done and how they did it or things they could have done different. 

I also think about upgrading to a 5D MIII but that is a ways down the road for me. There is do much for me to learn with my 7D that there is no point for me to upgrade right now.  Just keep going around taking pictures and trying new things. You will learn. 

Use YouTube also to learn some things. A lot of times you can find videos of people using the same camera as you and showing you how to do it.  

Hope this helps you out.


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## clo_iam (Jul 26, 2012)

Scott kelby is a good reference for learning. He has a website kelbytraining.com which allows you to watch online tutorials on different aspects of photography from tons of different professional photographers for $25/month I believe. 

I found it helpful hope you do too.


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## sovietdoc (Jul 27, 2012)

Okay okay, buy this to improve your photography:

24-105 f/4L and 600 EX-RT flash.  And stop using that silly pop-up flash, kill it.  Kill it with fire.


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## Tony S (Jul 27, 2012)

I also agree with others that you are not getting the best from the 7D most likely due to a lack of knowing the camera and skills to get the best from it.  If you upgrade to a new body you will have the same experience.

  Now another question for you to ponder... Do you notice a difference in image quality between the two lenses you currently have?  Do the images from the 50mm f1.4 appear noticeably sharper and have more contrast than those from the 28-135?  There should be.

 Post up some examples so we can see what results you are currently getting out of your equipment and skills.  Then we can give good honest answers as to what might help you best, the answer might be something all together different than what you expect.


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## that1guy (Jul 29, 2012)

not saying you don't know how to take pictures or how to be a photographer but if you're asking if camera take better pictures or ate they the lenses.... (yes new cameras = better technology) but I'm sure I can make my photos look just as good as a mkiii with my mkii 

practice!


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## hukim0531 (Jul 29, 2012)

Another important factor to consider is software.  What software do you have for post editing?  Most pictures you see on the web have gone through software editing to make ordinary and dull pictures to "pop".  You can see many tutorials and examples from youtube.  Below are some examples of "after and before" pp from one of my favorite contact in Flickr.  As you can see, all of his pictures below were taken with 5D2 a very capable camera that you wish to upgrade to.  

garden scenes in spring | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
a spring nap by the pond | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Streets in Eastern Europe | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
spending some long nights in distant cities | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
foreign markets | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
sunbeam catching far away | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Looks like Chris has some online tutorials on how he used Photoshop to enhance his pictures.
Photoshop Packages | Sandbox Photoblog


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## neih59 (Jul 30, 2012)

Hukim -- I think that's what I'm lacking.  I think my photos are fine, it's just missing the post editing effects.  I only know how to use simple Adobe Lightroom.  Do you have any recommendation?  Do you guys take a lot of time to edit your pics?  From the large amount of beautiful photos posted, the majority looks like they've been edited...I just don't know the technique to do it.  

Could some one kindly point to some leads on how to better post-edit photos?  Styles, techniques, software, and how-to?  

Thanks all.


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## MTVision (Jul 30, 2012)

neih59 said:
			
		

> Hukim -- I think that's what I'm lacking.  I think my photos are fine, it's just missing the post editing effects.  I only know how to use simple Adobe Lightroom.  Do you have any recommendation?  Do you guys take a lot of time to edit your pics?  From the large amount of beautiful photos posted, the majority looks like they've been edited...I just don't know the technique to do it.
> 
> Could some one kindly point to some leads on how to better post-edit photos?  Styles, techniques, software, and how-to?
> 
> Thanks all.



Lightroom is far from simple. You can do a lot in there for editing. 

Watch some YouTube videos about Lighteoom. Learn what each tool/slider does - that will help tremendously. Then just google tutorials for specific things you want to learn. Lightroom is pretty intuitive so just watch/read some tutorials and you'll be good to go. Also, as long as you get it all right in camera (lighting, exposure, etc.) you shouldn't have to spend much time editing. Plus you can copy the edits from one picture to a whole group pictures in LR (only works if the pictures are from the same set with the same lighting).


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## neih59 (Jul 30, 2012)

Thank you Megan for the insight.  Do you feel that with knowledge of Lightroom alone is enough for post-editing? or do you think I need to tap into learning PS as well?


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## MTVision (Jul 30, 2012)

neih59 said:
			
		

> Thank you Megan for the insight.  Do you feel that with knowledge of Lightroom alone is enough for post-editing? or do you think I need to tap into learning PS as well?



For the most part yes. Anything you do in Lightroom can be done in photoshop. A lot of people use LR alone for editing - even those who have both programs. Unless you want to do crazy editing things - like head swaps and such LR should be sufficient.


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## sovietdoc (Jul 30, 2012)

Lightroom is a pretty extensible platform.  Although not as extensible as Photoshop, it also has plugins and presets you can use to extend it past the basic functionality.  Doing photography without Lightroom is like trying to compute difficult arithmetic without a calculator.

I use LR for filtering the photos (keeper, throwaway), first PP pass (color/exposure/focus) and then offload 70% done pictures to Photoshop to do the rest of the work.


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## bratkinson (Jul 31, 2012)

From your original post and comments, it would seem that you are perhaps not correctly using a flash (I still have problems there), setting your ISO too high ($100 camera results), or not setting white balance properly in the camera.  Also, post processing is pretty much a requirement for digital photography.

All in all, I suspect you need more learning/experience/practice with what you have before you go out and buy new gear.  So do I, for that matter.


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## sm4him (Jul 31, 2012)

Tony S said:


> I also agree with others that you are not getting  the best from the 7D most likely due to a lack of knowing the camera and  skills to get the best from it.  If you upgrade to a new body you will  have the same experience.
> 
> Now another question for you to ponder... Do you notice a difference  in image quality between the two lenses you currently have?  Do the  images from the 50mm f1.4 appear noticeably sharper and have more  contrast than those from the 28-135?  There should be.
> 
> *Post up some examples so we can see what results you are currently getting out of your equipment and skills*.   Then we can give good honest answers as to what might help you best,  the answer might be something all together different than what you  expect.



:addpics:

Seriously, we are all just making guesses and  blowing smoke if you don't post some pictures so we can SEE what you're  producing. Without that, we have NO idea whether you need a new camera  or better lenses, or need to learn some basics of photography, or need  to focus on post-processing.

You say:


neih59 said:


> ...with my current equipment, I feels so...amateur.  Everything looks like it's coming from a $100 camera.  I'm not sure if it's the way I shoot...





neih59 said:


> ...  It's not that I don't know how to use my gears, it's just that the outcome is not as good as I want it.  So my question should rather be "Does the camera makes the picture more, or the lens?"





neih59 said:


> I think that's what I'm lacking.  I think my  photos are fine, it's just missing the post editing effects...



In other words, you have NO idea what the problem is--whether it is your gear, your skill and understanding of photography, or your post processing.
So, post some examples, and then some of these very skilled folks can help you instead of just taking stabs in the dark as to the problem.


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## o hey tyler (Jul 31, 2012)

The 50/1.4 is NOT an EF-S lens designed for APS-C cameras. It's an EF lens that can be used on both crop and full frame bodies.


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## PhotoBrody (Jul 31, 2012)

The 7D is a fantastic camera. Sell your current lenses and get 1 good all purpose lens. One of my favorites - 17-40mm f4L. Won't break your bank, and will provide you with very nice shots with the 7D. If that still doesn't work..sell your cam and the lens.. and find a new hobby


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## neih59 (Jul 31, 2012)

Here are some examples of my shots.  They look just ok, but I want to take it to the next level.  I did some very basic Lightroom post-edit (temp, color, exp, etc.), nothing serious.   I want to improve but not sure where to start (better hardware, need softbox, learn Lightroom/photoshop?).  

Please CC.


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## hukim0531 (Jul 31, 2012)

Looks like lighting is (mostly) the culprit.  If you like natural lights, near dusk and near dawn I hear are best time to take pictures outdoor. The sun is not as harsh and colors come out more vibrant.  A decent flash will also be very helpful in relatively darkly lit subject compared to bright fore or background, and to even out such large variations in dynamic range within the frame of shot.  The background in those photos do not look very appealing either.  I'm just amateur mostly interested in taking pictures of my kids so take my words with grain of salt, but by frequenting this and other photo sites on internet, you can pick up quite a bit of good tips.  Oh and Youtube too as I mentioned before.


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## neih59 (Jul 31, 2012)

Thanks Hukim.  I agree that the lighting is a bit harsh.  But we can't always pick and choose the time of day for events.  What I don't like about my pictures is that they seem washed out.  They're not vivid, like your profile picture.  Is it because the lighting or is it because I need to do better post editing?  I tried increasing the temperature in lightroom, which helps in some pics, but most of the time, it just doesn't look natural.  

Also, would the pics look better if I use my external flash 430ex and put it...say 45degree from the subject?  would that help with the harsh natural light? or would that make the subject more harsh?

Thanks.


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## sovietdoc (Jul 31, 2012)

Those shots can be improved with a reflector + flash.


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## neih59 (Jul 31, 2012)

Thanks Sovietdoc.  Where do you usually put the reflector ( i have one of those silver circular reflector), and where would the flash be best placed (430ex).


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