# Manual exposure control with iPhone?



## Majeed Badizadegan (Dec 23, 2012)

I'm new to iPhone. I have had no success finding an app that gives you full control over the exposure parameters. 

There are lots of apps out there that false advertise, or mislead you to believe that you will have control over exposure. Most of them show the exposure parameters in live view, but you don't have actual control.

I'm trying to get decent pictures of my 18 month old running around. I'd much rather choose a faster shutter speed and live with the high iso. Problem is, I find the camera to be hovering at 1/15-1/20 sec indoors all the time. Usually shutter speed won't increase until its below iso 400. I mean, 1/15 sec is a pretty slow shutter speed.  It's just simply not fast enough. 

Anyone else noticed this with their iphone? I'd love Manual control. I have camera+ and its nice but doesn't give the added control. I see "slow shutter cam" has good reviews at $.99, really long shutter speeds not  really what I'm looking for though. Anyone have any ideas or know of any apps?


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## thetrue (Dec 23, 2012)

I have yet to find a legitimate one. Most of them are fraudulent. Adjustable camera shutter takes a full 1/15 second image but allows you to "freeze" the frame some.


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## Light Guru (Dec 23, 2012)

I dont think that SDK that apple has released does not let you control the ISO. This means that app developers cannot make exactly what you are looking for. 

I believe all that apple let's you manually control is the focus point and the exposure point. 

Because you want to take photos of a little kid running around I would look into one of the many bust or continuos photo apps then you can just choose the photo that is most in focus and looks the best.


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## gw2424 (Dec 23, 2012)

I am working with some friends to program one, but it has a long way to go.


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## Majeed Badizadegan (Dec 24, 2012)

Hmm, pretty disappointing. 


You'd think there would be an "app for that". Apparently not.


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## table1349 (Dec 24, 2012)

My coffee maker has a small clock on it, but I don't rely on it to tell the time or be my alarm clock.  It's a phone with some smart features. A camera being a limited little side light, not a main feature.  If you want to take pictures like you described get a camera.  Buying a camera: everything you need to know | The Verge


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## Majeed Badizadegan (Dec 24, 2012)

gryphonslair99 said:


> My coffee maker has a small clock on it, but I don't rely on it to tell the time or be my alarm clock.


 
Exceptionally strong metaphor there gryphon. Wonder how long it took you to think that one up? Hopefully you didn't strain yourself. From the nonsense you've written here, it looks like this metaphor may have been an intellectual stretch for you. 

Phones have changed and evolved to become more than just phones, _thus our expectations of them have also changed_. Even an Android phone I owned that is almost three years old allowed me to manually control some aspects of exposure, there is no excuse that I shouldn't have any manual control over my iPhone 5 camera.  

I don't take my coffee maker everywhere with me, I don't rely on my coffee maker to take decent quality candid snapshots, I don't use the coffee maker to surf the internet or make calls, I don't use the coffee maker to calculate tips or to look up the latest scores. Wouldn't it be absurd if I did? Sorry, I'm still stuck on your brilliant coffee maker metaphor. 



gryphonslair99 said:


> It's a phone with some smart features. A camera being a limited little side light, not a main feature.  _*If you want to take pictures like yo*_u* described get a camera.* Buying a camera: everything you need to know | The Verge



That's incredibly ostentatious of you, don't you think? Being that this is a photo forum and I'm a regular contributing poster here. Wouldn't it be safe to assume that I already own a camera? Or perhaps your thought process didn't get that far because you were too busy thinking up crappy metaphors? 

The reason I want manual control is because I know the value of it.  I don't think the AI of the iPhone camera is smart enough to get good pictures in every condition. 

Go be a tool somewhere else please.


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## table1349 (Dec 24, 2012)

Apparently the concept that the tool may not be capable of doing what you want has eluded you.


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## Light Guru (Dec 24, 2012)

gryphonslair99 said:


> Apparently the concept that the tool may not be capable of doing what you want has eluded you.



Exactly. 



Rotanimod said:


> Even an Android phone I owned that is almost three years old allowed me to manually control some aspects of exposure, there is no excuse that I shouldn't have any manual control over my iPhone 5 camera.



And you can control SOME aspects of the photo you are taking just not ALL. 

The API that apple has developers for the camera ONLY let you set an exposure point and a focus point. And there are MANY apps out there that let you do that giving you manual control over the exposure point and focus point and letting you lock them or change the point. 

So clearly you can have SOME control. 

I personally think total manual control of the camera on such a small screen would be clunky and impractical to use.  Think about it if the iPhone screen were to show all the controls that a you have when your DSLR is full manual mode in such a way that you didn't have to tap several times going into menus to set things it would take up the whole screen just to show you all your iso shutter speed and aperture options all at once thus not letting you see your image.

If you were to include the image on the screen you would have to put settings under menses that pop up when up I press a single button this would require you to tap several times and even scroll though a list of things like ISO, shutter speed, aperture. By the time you picked your settings on the touch screen through several menus the photo moment would be gone. 

It's just not practice on such a small screen. To have full manual control. Plus the iPhone is a consumer device and what apple has given access to in the API of the focus point and exposure point are more then what 99% of consumers want or need.


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## Majeed Badizadegan (Dec 24, 2012)

Problem is the iphone has this really, really bad tendency to sacrifice shutter speed for ISO. Anywhere indoors between ISo 50 and ISo 3200 the shutter speed is no faster than 1/20 sec.  Shooting a moving subject at 1/15 sec is not fast enough. 

Now if i could manually bump to 800 ISo like I could on my android and see an increased shutter speed id be all for it. Same concepts of photography apply on the iPhone as they do cameras. You can fight noise and grain a lot more easily than getting blurry pic after blurry pic because the shutter speed isn't fast enough. 

Focus and exposure locks are a "band-aid fix" to a bigger problem. 

Just saying that iPhone is not capable or people don't want the added functionality is making excuses. Saying that you're going to miss the moment because your fiddling with controls is a very weak argument. I'd much rather have control over exposure and it be my fault if I miss the shot. But at 1/15 second between ISo 50-3200 with apples very "dumb" auto mode, I'm guaranteed to miss the shot most of the time anyway.


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## Derrel (Dec 24, 2012)

Rotanimod said:


> Problem is the iphone has this *really, really bad tendency to sacrifice shutter speed for ISO. Anywhere indoors between ISo 50 and ISo 3200 the shutter speed is no faster than 1/20 sec.*  Shooting a moving subject at 1/15 sec is not fast enough.
> 
> Now if i could manually bump to 800 ISo like I could on my android and see an increased shutter speed id be all for it. Same concepts of photography apply on the iPhone as they do cameras. You can fight noise and grain a lot more easily than getting blurry pic after blurry pic because the shutter speed isn't fast enough.
> 
> ...




Yeah, the part I quoted and then bold-faced is indeed the crux of the problem with the iPhone; both the 4 and the 4S and the 5 have GOOD high-ISO capabilities, and backside-illuminated sensor technology, and so, there is enough possible ISO "quality" to bump the danged shutter speed up at lower EV levels....but...the numb-nuts who programmed the iPhone's exposure program keeps the danged ISO low-low-low, and what results all too often are slow-speed "blurs" at lowish ISO values, when what a "real photographer" would have done would be to have bumped up the damned shutter speed around two to maybe even three full EV values, and bumped the ISO up commensurately... *"Do'ah!"*

A slightly-noisy ISO 1,000 shot made at f/2.8 (yes, the iPhones 4,4s,and 5 all have FAST, multi-element lenses!!!) at 1/50 second would be SO MUCH BETTER than a well-exposed shot that was filled with MOTION blur, or camera SHAKE, because the original programmer decided that 1/15 second is a viable shutter speed in low-light situations. Again, whoever decided upon the preferences for the shutter speed-to-ISO parameters was a numb-nuts...and now that the iPhone 5 has ISO values up to and including ISO 3,200 and pixel-binning available, the stupidity of this longstanding iPhone design blunder is even more annoying.

One of the best apps I have found is Camera Plus Pro, which has an anti-shake mode that prevents the shutter from firing until the camera is stabilized enough for the shutter speed in use; however, all that does is prevent camera shake; it still gives PLENTY of blurred faces and blurred movement in all sorts of common *phone-camera-shot scenarios*. Once again, we see the utter stupidity of that "use the lowest ISO possible" mantra, repeated idiot-like, without the corresponding understanding of the value of a SHARP, blur-free shot, with a slight bit of extra accompanying ISO noise. Again...we see yet again the dangers of allowing *geeks* to design products that they really do not TRULY understand fully...


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## nycphotography (Dec 24, 2012)

Rotanimod said:


> Hmm, pretty disappointing.
> You'd think there would be an "app for that". Apparently not.



I learned a long time ago that there will be NO APP for anything that Apple might disapprove of, such as using your phone as a hotspot for your laptop, enjoying an app with a sense of humor that amuses you but might offend grandma, or might make it possible to use your device in ways that Apple has decided should be reserved to a different device.

If you're disappointed that the apps and extendability is limited, all I can offer is "that's what you get for buying an Apple product".


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## Majeed Badizadegan (Dec 24, 2012)

Derrel said:
			
		

> Yeah, the part I quoted and then bold-faced is indeed the crux of the problem with the iPhone; both the 4 and the 5S and the 5 have GOOD high-ISO capabilities, and backside-illuminated sensor technology, and so, there is enough possible ISO "quality" to bump the danged shutter speed up at lower EV levels....but...the numb-nuts who programmed the iPhone's exposure program keeps the danged ISO low-low-low, and what results all too often are slow-speed "blurs" at lowish ISO values, when what a "real photographer" would have done would be to have bumped up the &&&&-damned shutter speed two or three full EV values and bumped the ISO uop commensurately...
> 
> A slightly-noisy ISO 1,000 shot made at f/2.8 (yes, the iPhones 4,4s,and 5 all have FAST, multi-element lenses!!!) at 1/50 second would be SO MUCH BETTER than a well-exposed shot that was filled with MOTION blur, or camera SHAKE, because the original programmer decided that 1/15 second is a viable shutter speed in low-light situations. Again, whoever decided upon the preferences for the shutter speed-to-ISO paramenters was a n*&b-nuts...
> 
> One of the best apps I have found is Camera Plus Pro, which has an anti-shale sensor that prevents the shutter from firing until the camera is stabilized enough for the shutter speed in use; however, all that does is prvent camera shake; it still gives PLENTY of blurred faces and blurred movement in all sorts of common phone-camera-shot scenarios. Once again, we see the utter stupidity of that "use the lowest ISO possible" mantra, repeated idiot-like, without the corresponding understanding of the value of a SHARP, blur-free shot, with a slight bit of extra accompanying ISO noise. Again...one of the dangers of allowing geeks to design products that they really do not TRULY understand fully...



Amen! FINALLY someone taking some sense.

This is an extremely well-worded summation of the problem.

 It's not that the iPhone physically CAN'T produce quality pics across various real-world situations, its that the designers have programmed the auto mode so horribly that it utterly fails at utilizing the full capability of the camera. 

The problem is the "Intelligent" exposure choices we as photographers make in less than ideal situations we simply cannot with this phone or any app. It begs the question, why not?


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## Majeed Badizadegan (Dec 24, 2012)

nycphotography said:
			
		

> I learned a long time ago that there will be NO APP for anything that Apple might disapprove of, such as using your phone as a hotspot for your laptop, enjoying an app with a sense of humor that amuses you but might offend grandma, or might make it possible to use your device in ways that Apple has decided should be reserved to a different device.
> 
> If you're disappointed that the apps and extendability is limited, all I can offer is "that's what you get for buying an Apple product".



Definitely something I knew getting into the Apple arena. Goes against my personal philosophy on some levels, that the App Store is so restricted by "Apple approved" content. 

Just a disappointment that the auto mode is so dumb, and there are no alternatives.


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## Derrel (Dec 24, 2012)

Rotanimod said:
			
		

> SNIP>It's not that the iPhone physically CAN'T produce quality pics across various real-world situations, its that the designers have programmed the auto mode so horribly that it utterly fails at utilizing the full capability of the camera.
> 
> The problem is the "Intelligent" exposure choices we as photographers make in less than ideal situations we simply cannot with this phone or any app. It begs the question, why not?



Yeah...the iPhone's lens is actually pretty GOOD. With a 5- to 8-MP, backside-illuminated sensor behind a multi-element f/2.8 or f/2.5 lens, the "imaging" parts of the iPhone 4,4s,and 5 are pretty good,actually. I suspect that the majority of snapshooters will use the built-in flash in "many" indoor lighting conditions. And it does "okay". But I agree, the designers have made a truly regrettable decision with the relationship between Exposure Value level, and ISO, and shutter speed...

Looking through over 15,000 of my own iPhone 4 shots I have made since August of 2011, the VAST,vast majority of the clunkers are due to the shutter speed being too slow because the ISO value has been kept "low". In low-light levels, the typical 1/15 second shutter speed leads to a LOT of blurred shots. Even indoors in say, a well-lighted McDonald's dining room...the speed the camera will pick is too slow to stop motion of a kid eating a cheeseburger...(real-world example from yesterday!!!)


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## tevo (Dec 24, 2012)

Spot expose! Tap and hold the camera screen to where you want to meter for, and when you let go it locks the Exposure. Granted, it also locks the focus so watch out for that.


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## Majeed Badizadegan (Dec 24, 2012)

Derrel said:
			
		

> Yeah...the iPhone's lens is actually pretty GOOD. With a 5- to 8-MP, backside-illuminated sensor behind a multi-element f/2.8 or f/2.5 lens, the "imaging" parts of the iPhone 4,4s,and 5 are pretty good,actually. I suspect that the majority of snapshooters will use the built-in flash in "many" indoor lighting conditions. And it does "okay". But I agree, the designers have made a truly regrettable decision with the relationship between Exposure Value level, and ISO, and shutter speed...
> 
> Looking through over 15,000 of my own iPhone 4 shots I have made since August of 2011, the VAST,vast majority of the clunkers are due to the shutter speed being too slow because the ISO value has been kept "low". In low-light levels, the typical 1/15 second shutter speed leads to a LOT of blurred shots. Even indoors in say, a well-lighted McDonald's dining room...the speed the camera will pick is too slow to stop motion of a kid eating a cheeseburger...(real-world example from yesterday!!!)




Again, exactly my dilemma. I could go through 50,000 shots in Lightroom taken with my dslr in the last year and would be hard pressed to find many shots at 1/15 sec. I would never shoot that slow handheld with Any lens.  If there were shots at that speed, they would almost surely be shoot on a TRIPOD. 

To make matters worse, without "camera +" (volume button as shutter release) you are actually PHYSICALLY HITTING the screen with your finger, which could easily cause camera shake type blur at 1/15 sec. You can also hold down the camera button and release to snap, which is one method I've developed. But all are symptoms of the problem. The heart of the issue is the slow shutter speed.


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## manaheim (Dec 24, 2012)

I use my iPhone for quick pics and videos of the kids all the time (if I don't have my real camera), but it seems like trying to use it seriously enough to want to control manual settings is a little ... Over the top?  I mean... I suppose if it had the features and you could really make them work... Sure, why not?  But it just sounds like you're expecting a whole lot more out of your phone than you should.  

Gryphons point may have been phrased in a bit of a glib fashion, but I think it's a valid point regardless.  With extremely rate exceptions, when you combine functions into a single device by one manufacturer you wind up with compromises.


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## Majeed Badizadegan (Jan 8, 2013)

Even partial control, such as controlling the ISo, would force the shutter speed to be faster


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## jake337 (Jan 8, 2013)

Rotanimod said:


> Even partial control, such as controlling the ISo, would force the shutter speed to be faster




You can't control the ISO on the 5?  

Get a HTC One series phone I guess.  The F2 aperture is nice.  Set at ISO 800, with exposure "control" turned all the way up lets you snap in pretty dim lit areas.


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## paigew (Jan 8, 2013)

I use 'pro camera'. You can 'set' exposure by dragging the exposure square over what you want exposed. There is also an 'iso boost' and if it is set to 'on' it will go up to 3200. You can't manually select what ss or iso to use but I get great results with it. here is my instagram feed.


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## Majeed Badizadegan (Jan 8, 2013)

My previous phone the Evo 4g, almost 3 year old android, allowed manual ISo selection.

I guess I took that for granted. But it's always hard to tell with Apple becuse often aesthetics take precedence over functionality. Even though the ability is there, apple simply disregards the need for the functionality. One size fits all, right? Not so much.


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## Majeed Badizadegan (Jan 8, 2013)

paigew said:
			
		

> I use 'pro camera'. You can 'set' exposure by dragging the exposure square over what you want exposed. There is also an 'iso boost' and if it is set to 'on' it will go up to 3200. You can't manually select what ss or iso to use but I get great results with it. here is my instagram feed.



Not the same thing unfortunately. The problem is the iPhone favors low ISo values over reasonable shutter speeds. Even at ISo 50 indoors the shutter is still at 1/15 or 1/20 second. That's bad programming. And spot metering with pro camera or camera + just isn't quite the ticket. Sure they help a bit in some situations. But often are not the right solution the problem. 

I mean 1/15 sec is not even enough to freeze a kid eating a burger, or even slight movements of the head/face


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## Mully (Jan 8, 2013)

nycphotography said:


> Rotanimod said:
> 
> 
> > Hmm, pretty disappointing.
> ...



Now this a a very uneducated comment.... learn before you speak


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## amolitor (Jan 8, 2013)

Mully said:


> nycphotography said:
> 
> 
> > Rotanimod said:
> ...



Not, hopefully, to start an Apple vs. <whatever> war, but this matches my experience precisely. Apple sacrifices flexibility for pretty much everything else. As a skilled computing professional, familiar with many useful modes of usefulness in electronic systems, I generally find Apple's limited-but-friendly systems to be infuriating. They're squarely aimed at the lowest common denominator market, and it's worked out extremely well for them.

Their computers do not report problems in a useful way, generally, their cameras don't work like grownup cameras, everything is instead simple and intuitive. When being more powerful or flexible would get in the way of simple and intuitive, out goes powerful. It's a design choice, they're very clear on it, and it informs all that they do.

I'm typing this on a Mac right now, by the way. One that often drives me nuts.


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## rexbobcat (Jan 8, 2013)

Mully said:
			
		

> Now this a a very uneducated comment.... learn before you speak



I have to agree. Apple is very proprietary and is basically the polar opposite of more developer friendly, open source solutions such as Linux and Android.


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## Majeed Badizadegan (Jan 8, 2013)

amolitor said:


> Mully said:
> 
> 
> > nycphotography said:
> ...



This


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## Mully (Jan 8, 2013)

amolitor said:


> Mully said:
> 
> 
> > nycphotography said:
> ...



Then your mac is not set up right...I rarely have problems ...I have owned a Mac since Jan 1985 so I know know from where I speak... something is wrong with your mac if you are having problems. Don't like the product switch but don't be a product basher, just switch to something that suits you.


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## amolitor (Jan 8, 2013)

My problems are not that the Mac breaks, it's that when there are actual underlying issues that I can fix, the Mac declines to give me any useful information. It assumes that I am not a skilled networking engineer, mathematician, and computer programmer, and simply tells me 'that didn't work out, sorry'. This was actually clear in my prior post, you've simply chosen to ignore that so you can trot out your "well, Macs are perfect, so yours must be broken or you are stupid" suggestion.

My Mac is fine. The design choices made in large areas of the user interface are poorly suited to me. There are other aspects of it that suit me well, which is why I retain it. Obviously.

You'll do better on the internets if you stop assuming that whomever you're talking to is a dunce.


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## Mully (Jan 8, 2013)

^^^^^ All I have ever seen you do is make negative remarks about most things...I am not alone in my opinion of you with this....when do you ever post an image to show your work......I never said you were a dunce...my reference is to those that bash something when they have other choices...now who is the dunce.


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## amolitor (Jan 8, 2013)

My work is posted here, and all over the place, if you bothered to lift one finger to look. I am many things, but google-proof is not one of them. What on EARTH does my work have to do with anything, though? Yes yes, I know there are plenty of people who hate me. I was worried  this thread would turn into an apple bashing thread, and now you want to  make it about ME?

While I am flattered, I decline to play.


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## nikT2i (Jan 8, 2013)

gryphonslair99 said:


> My coffee maker has a small clock on it, but I don't rely on it to tell the time or be my alarm clock.  It's a phone with some smart features. A camera being a limited little side light, not a main feature.  If you want to take pictures like you described get a camera.  Buying a camera: everything you need to know | The Verge



I completely agree. Phones with cameras are designed so that they are handy, on-the-go, options for users who don't always have their cameras readily available to snap a halfway decent picture of something. While I wish my iPhone DID have the capability to determine appropriate manual exposure, I wouldn't spend too much time searching for an app that can do this.


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## Mully (Jan 8, 2013)

Have you explored this http://www.ononesoftware.com/products/dslr-camera-remote/...not sure if it could work for you but worth a look.


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## nycphotography (Jan 8, 2013)

Mully said:


> Now this a a very uneducated comment.... learn before you speak



Of course.  I ain't never seen a pooter befer.  How dey werk?


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## Derrel (Jan 8, 2013)

Whenever there's ANY type of a problem with an Apple product or software application, the Pee-Cee lovers always come out in droves and start their furious web-based, *Win-Doze-and-the-Pee Cee-is-best-mental-masturbation rituals*...

 Predictable. Funny. And also "Eeeewwwwww, so gross!!!" It never,ever fails...

They cannot seem to try and help anybody actually SOLVE a problem with an APple product or software issue, but instead start waving their PC woodies around, talking chit, loudly...


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## jake337 (Jan 8, 2013)

I just downloaded "proshot" for my HTC Windows phone 8x and it allows you to change shutter speed from 1/2 to 1/8000 and iso from 100 to 3200.  Has manual WB override, manual focus override, and three modes; Auto, Program, Shutter and custom.  It also has options for a level, histogram and grid lines on screen.


Now I'm not sure if it actually changing shutter speed or not, or if it is using some software trickery.












I do have a question though???

Shouldn't the usable shutter speed be roughly 2 times the focal length?  I'm pretty sure to get 28mm FF equivalent FOV in this small of a sensor the actual focal length of these cell phone cams should be extremely wide like 7mm or something?  So 1/15 should technically be able to give you sharp images right?  I think ergonomics that allow so much camera shake is the problem here.

But this doesn't take into account taking snaps of children though.  Much higher shutterspeed needed for sure.


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## amolitor (Jan 8, 2013)

Derrel said:


> Whenever there's ANY type of a problem with an Apple product or software application, the Pee-Cee lovers always come out in droves and start their furious web-based, *Win-Doze-and-the-Pee Cee-is-best-mental-masturbation rituals*...



You're not talking about ME here, are you? Cuz Windows is actually bad. Apple suffers from a design philosophy that suits me poorly, Windows is just terrible.


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## manaheim (Jan 8, 2013)

Derrel said:


> Whenever there's ANY type of a problem with an Apple product or software application, the Pee-Cee lovers always come out in droves and start their furious web-based, *Win-Doze-and-the-Pee Cee-is-best-mental-masturbation rituals*...
> 
> Predictable. Funny. And also "Eeeewwwwww, so gross!!!" It never,ever fails...
> 
> They cannot seem to try and help anybody actually SOLVE a problem with an APple product or software issue, but instead start waving their PC woodies around, talking chit, loudly...



Apple products are BRILLIANTLY designed for people who want way less of a complex device that they can get themselves into trouble with and way more of an appliance.

That is neither a bad nor a good thing, it is merely a matter of choosing what you need and what you want.

I find Apple products *absolutely infuriating*... yet I have an iPhone, an iPad, and we have two iPods floating around the house.  The ONLY reason we didn't buy two more iPads this Christmas for the girls is that they are STUPIDLY expensive... else we'd have two more.

I'd pretty much rather rip my own arms off with my teeth than use an Apple product as a desktop or, god forbid, a serious non-phone camera.

There you have it.


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## Majeed Badizadegan (Jan 8, 2013)

manaheim said:
			
		

> Apple products are BRILLIANTLY designed for people who want way less of a complex device that they can get themselves into trouble with and way more of an appliance.
> 
> That is neither a bad nor a good thing, it is merely a matter of choosing what you need and what you want.
> 
> ...



Haha, that gave me a good chuckle. Had to laugh because I too have iPad, iPhones and two iPods floating around the house and NEVER intend to get a Mac/apple operating system. I worked at an Apple store for a couple years, and have used windows all my life, so I have a somewhat unique perspective in that regard.


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## manaheim (Jan 8, 2013)

Rotanimod said:


> manaheim said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



heheh... 

To be fair, my FAVORITE personal computer of ALL TIME...was an Apple product.


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## o hey tyler (Jan 8, 2013)

Hath thou considereth jailbreaking thine iPhone?


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## thetrue (Jan 8, 2013)

o hey tyler said:


> Hath thou considereth jailbreaking thine iPhone?


That's a good option, as long as you don't plan on using any warranty.


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## Majeed Badizadegan (Jan 8, 2013)

o hey tyler said:
			
		

> Hath thou considereth jailbreaking thine iPhone?



Thou hasn't !! Maybe after the first year of owning the phone when the warranty is up


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## manaheim (Jan 9, 2013)

Warranties are for pansies.


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## amolitor (Jan 9, 2013)

"Warranty" is actually derived from the Latin _Warrantus_ which means "of weaklings" or "for weaklings" and later evolved into a word for lady's undergarments in Pompei.


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## pixmedic (Jan 9, 2013)

amolitor said:


> "Warranty" is actually derived from the Latin _Warrantus_ which means "of weaklings" or "for weaklings" and later evolved into a word for lady's undergarments in Pompei.



and there  you have it... Thats how Best Buy sells all of their performance service plans. im always a fan of anything involving lady's undergarments.


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## pixmedic (Jan 9, 2013)

also...
i only read the last page of this thread...
did someone say that there ISN'T a way to do manual exposure on an iphone?
doesnt really matter, we have Galaxy S3's anyway.


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## rexbobcat (Jan 9, 2013)

Heheheh. I don't know how serious this video is but still....heheheh

Flame war, start, now.

Why Apple Clearly Thinks You're Stupid | Cracked.com


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## nycphotography (Jan 9, 2013)

I can't watcht he video from here... no sound... but it just occurred to me that statistically, in general terms, we ARE stupid.

It's only when being considered as individuals in specific sub contexts where we might become un-stupid.

Consider that consumer cars have to be drivable by "everyone".  They have to be very accomodating of stupid moves.  Race cars only have to be driven by a few hundred people w/ specialized knowledge and skills, so they can have adaptations like separate front and rear brakes, high ratio steering wheels, butterfly shifters, stall converters, etc.  A race car doesn't _have_ to accomodate stupidity.

Put "us" in one of those cars, and we'll be stupid as hell.

Mass market products have to accommodate our stupidity.

But good ones with a open interfacing principle, will also allow room for those us who have special niche skills to do more.

The problem with the iPhone, ipod, ipad, and Apple consumer devices, is that they intentionally omit the standard open interface hooks that let you do more if you know more, where other devices include those standard interfaces by default.

Two examples:

1) I can't interface with the stuff on my ipod, iphone or ipad using a standard USB/SMB interface and the file system explorer built into Windows, OS/X, AND Linux.  This is the same standard interface that works on EVERY other device, every card reader, every external storage device made by every manufacturer for every environment.  On the planet.  Except for Apple.

2) I can't plug an SD card (or even some other kind of proprietary memory card) into my ipod, iphone or ipad so that I can swap in different work contexts at will.  For example different portfolios on different cards, so I can just hand it to a client and not have to worry if they open the wrong portfolio :-o because they've been removed from the device.  Of course this works with (almost) every other device on the planet.  Except for Apple.

This refusal to provide standard interfaces is not accidental, it's intentional.

Of course, I'm just uneducated, otherwise I wouldn't expect an Apple device to work with standard open interfaces.


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## amolitor (Jan 9, 2013)

Think this through. Why wouldn't Apple build an API for the camera that allowed full manual controls? Suppose that they did.

1) Someone builds a wundercamera app that's Full Manual Only. 
2) Some idiot techno worship web site like gizmodo publishes a garbled article explaining how Full Manual Only is the best camera app in the world.
3) 3,000,000 iPhone fans download it and start taking horrible black pictures, or overexposed messes, or whatever, because they haven't got a clue.
4) 2,999,999 people jump onto the internet message boards ranting about how the new iPhone camera is a disaster. The other guy is sick today.

But on the UP side, the 3 people who give a crap about a full manual camera app for their iPhone are super happy.

Why would Apple sign up for this? That would be idiotic. Now, perhaps they didn't think it through this way, but it's plausible.


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## nycphotography (Jan 9, 2013)

When it comes to full manual camera controls, I don't think it's the typical Apple ego+politics+profiteering.  They don't have a camera product line to not want to cannibalize.  Rather, it's most likely a simple lack of competence in understanding cameras and the potential of what should be possible w/ an extendable software enabled camera.

With SD Cards and File Manager interfaces, it's driven by a far more sinister motivation.

As to idiots complaining about iphone pictures because they're using a different camera app... idiot users can always still use the built in app.  As pessimistic as I tend to be about the average Joe, even the average Joe intuitively understands that he has two different camera apps installed, just like he has 4 different sudoku apps.


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## o hey tyler (Jan 9, 2013)

amolitor said:
			
		

> Think this through. Why wouldn't Apple build an API for the camera that allowed full manual controls? Suppose that they did.
> 
> 1) Someone builds a wundercamera app that's Full Manual Only.
> 2) Some idiot techno worship web site like gizmodo publishes a garbled article explaining how Full Manual Only is the best camera app in the world.
> ...



You type this out like there's never been a bad app to hit the App Store.... It happens, quite regularly. I have an iPhone and have read the reviews for multiple apps. Just because apple is so stringent with what they allow in to the App Store doesn't mean that they're all high quality, and they certainly don't  account for people not knowing what to do with a particular app or how to work it properly. 

If people read the description prior to downloading then they should know what to expect. If they don't, and decide to write a review saying "this camera app sucks! I can only take completely black photos or completely white." Then they're idiots, because they didn't read what they were getting into. 

However if you learn to read a light meter, like one on the iPhone display, you'd be able to work the camera quite well. As reading a light meter and getting in the +/-2 stops range is easier than most iOS or android based mobile games.


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## amolitor (Jan 9, 2013)

Sure there have been bad things in the App Store. My point is, why would Apple deliberately design the iPhone's software to pretty much guarantee ANOTHER one?


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## pixmedic (Jan 9, 2013)

amolitor said:


> Sure there have been bad things in the App Store. My point is, why would Apple deliberately design the iPhone's software to pretty much guarantee ANOTHER one?



because they know people will buy it anyway, then buy the new one.


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## o hey tyler (Jan 9, 2013)

amolitor said:
			
		

> Sure there have been bad things in the App Store. My point is, why would Apple deliberately design the iPhone's software to pretty much guarantee ANOTHER one?



Just because you think that people are too stupid to take a proper exposure doesn't mean that they actually are.


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## pixmedic (Jan 9, 2013)




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## Mully (Jan 9, 2013)

^^^^^^^^ thanks too funny!


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## jake337 (Jan 9, 2013)

jake337 said:


> I just downloaded "proshot" for my HTC Windows phone 8x and it allows you to change shutter speed from 1/2 to 1/8000 and iso from 100 to 3200.  Has manual WB override, manual focus override, and three modes; Auto, Program, Shutter and custom.  It also has options for a level, histogram and grid lines on screen.
> 
> 
> Now I'm not sure if it actually changing shutter speed or not, or if it is using some software trickery.
> ...



So after playing with the app a bit it does seem to actually work, but only in between ISO100-800.


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## amolitor (Jan 9, 2013)

o hey tyler said:


> amolitor said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh, I see your point. I disagree with it, but ok.


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## Majeed Badizadegan (Jan 9, 2013)

Amolitor, as long as this imaginary app defaulted in Auto mode, with the options available for the power user to manually control exposure, wouldn't that prevent most of the confusion?


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## Derrel (Jan 9, 2013)

I was thinking of this article and some famous quotes from Bill Gates....from the article 36 Greatest Bill Gates Quotes, just For Apple Fanboys...posted at 36 greatest Bill Gates quotes, just for Apple fanboys | Econsultancy


I think there's *plenty of insight in these GEMS*...gives an idea of how big companies with *egomaniacal leaders* can screw the pooch...

33. "Microsoft is not about greed. It's about innovation and fairness."

34. "To create a new standard, it takes something that's not just a little bit different; it takes something that's really new and really captures people's imagination  and the Macintosh, of all the machines I've ever seen, is the only one that meets that standard."

35. "The best way to prepare [to be a programmer] is to write programs, and to study great programs that other people have written. In my case, I went to the garbage cans at the Computer Science Center and fished out listings of their operating system."

36."We will never make a 32-bit operating system, but I'll always love IBM."

Veeeewy int-uh-westing.....as Elmer Fudd said...Speaking of F.U.D....that was a Microsoft tactic for 15 years...


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## nycphotography (Jan 9, 2013)

Rotanimod said:


> Amolitor, as long as this imaginary app  defaulted in Auto mode, with the options available for the power user to  manually control exposure, wouldn't that prevent most of the  confusion?



When's the last time a 2 bit app developer had reasonable defaults for how it should work?

Even microsoft can't get it right... first thing when I set up a workstation I have to spend an hour changing all the default settings to something that makes sense on planet earth.


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## Light Guru (Jan 9, 2013)

I don't know why this did not hit me earlier but the camera on the iPhone has a fixed aperture of 2.4 so its not a software thing that prevents you from having complete manual control over exposure it is a hardware limitation. 

Manual exposure control over things like ISO is kinda pointless when you you can only have a set aperture. 

If you can make a camera the size of the one in the iPhone that has adjustable aperture blades then I'm sure Apple would be glad to let to have complete control over the cameras exposure.


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## Majeed Badizadegan (Jan 10, 2013)

Light Guru said:
			
		

> I don't know why this did not hit me earlier but the camera on the iPhone has a fixed aperture of 2.4 so its not a software thing that prevents you from having complete manual control over exposure it is a hardware limitation.
> 
> Manual exposure control over things like ISO is kinda pointless when you you can only have a set aperture.
> 
> If you can make a camera the size of the one in the iPhone that has adjustable aperture blades then I'm sure Apple would be glad to let to have complete control over the cameras exposure.



ISo and shutter speed can still be controlled. The  oft poor "auto" exposure decisions the camera makes are the problem. A software problem, not a hardware problem. 

 As has been stated in this thread but worth repeating, the camera favors low ISo values over shutter speed.  For example, the  iso will go all the way down to  iso 50 before the base shutter speed of 1/15 sec is increased. Have you ever tried to photograph a moving kid at 1/15 second? Doesn't work. 

If we could manually control ISo and shutter speed, or even just one of those aspects, it would be desirable, so it doesnt matter if the aperture is fixed.


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## manaheim (Jan 10, 2013)

Manually controlling settings on a crappy camera is like being able to choose what color your dog poops in.


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## amolitor (Jan 10, 2013)

manaheim said:


> Manually controlling settings on a crappy camera is like being able to choose what color your dog poops in.



And that wouldn't be *awesome* how, exactly?


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## manaheim (Jan 10, 2013)

amolitor said:
			
		

> And that wouldn't be awesome how, exactly?



I suppose it might, but that doesn't change how pointless it is.


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## table1349 (Jan 10, 2013)

If you have time to whine and complain about something then you have the time to do something about it. 
Anthony J. D'Angelo


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## nycphotography (Jan 10, 2013)

It takes but a moment to state a complaint, but if you think you're going change the course of Apple, perhaps quote from Miguel de Cervantes would be more apropos.


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## Majeed Badizadegan (Jan 10, 2013)

manaheim said:
			
		

> Manually controlling settings on a crappy camera is like being able to choose what color your dog poops in.



The hardware is actually very nice on these cameras. Calling it crappy is an exaggeration. They are highly capable shooters. 

They are just crippled by their poor programming.


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## manaheim (Jan 10, 2013)

Rotanimod said:
			
		

> The hardware is actually very nice on these cameras. Calling it crappy is an exaggeration. They are highly capable shooters.
> 
> They are just crippled by their poor programming.



Ummmm based on what evidence?

I mean for CAMERA PHONES sure... They've come a long way, but 8+mp on a tiny sensor with that joke of a lens?  No.  They're crap.

We ARE on a photography forum here, right?  Populated by a lot of people who spend thousands of dollars on big bulky cameras and lenses because supposedly there's a reason for that beyond bragging rights?  I didn't blink while this site turned into a phone site, did I?

Let's be clear... Phones make ****TY cameras.  They're insanely useful, flexible and powerful devices... But if you need good photography, you grab a real camera.


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## jake337 (Jan 15, 2013)

So I did a little test this morning with my HTC Windows Phone 8x to see if this "ProShot" app was actually letting me choose the shutterspeed.  Well it looks like it does but when it comes to the faster shutterspeeds it is showing faster shutterspeeds than actually used.

All shot at ISO100

1/30








1/40






1/50






1/60






1/80 but shows 1/81 in exif






1/100 but shows 1/101 in exif






1/125 but shows 1/127 in exif






1/250 but shows 1/256 in exif






1/160 but shows 1/161 in exif






1/320 but shows 1/323 in exif






1/500 but shows 1/526 in exif






1/1000 but shows 1/1111 in exif






1/2000 shows 1/2500 in exif






1/4000 shows 1/5000 in exif






1/8000 shows 1/10000 in exif


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## Majeed Badizadegan (Jan 15, 2013)

^ That is weird, but at least you have some manual control!


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## Majeed Badizadegan (Jan 15, 2013)

manaheim said:


> Ummmm based on what evidence?
> 
> I mean for CAMERA PHONES sure... They've come a long way, but 8+mp on a tiny sensor with that joke of a lens?  No.  They're crap.
> 
> ...



Compare the camera in the iPhone now to flagship DSLR's 10 years ago:

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/nikon/313684-10-years-ago-2003-a.html

Camera phones now have the resolution and the imaging capabilities that were not even available on the highest end flagship camera models! It's all relative. Comparing the tiny camera that comes on these phones to a huge DSLR isn't a fair comparison. Just because the camera phone is inferior to the DSLR, doesn't automatically make the camera in the phone "crappy".

I personally have my phone with me EVERYWHERE. But my DSLR isn't with me everywhere. "Grabbing a real camera" isn't always an option. 

The iPhone is a very capable shooter and can produce_ crisp, high-quality 8MP images_. 

Here's a well-known video where the iPhone is used as the primary camera for a professional shoot.


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## rexbobcat (Jan 15, 2013)

Rotanimod said:
			
		

> Compare the camera in the iPhone now to flagship DSLR's 10 years ago:
> 
> http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/nikon/313684-10-years-ago-2003-a.html
> 
> ...



http://m.dpreview.com/reviews/kodakdcs14n


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## manaheim (Jan 15, 2013)

Rotanimod said:
			
		

> Compare the camera in the iPhone now to flagship DSLR's 10 years ago:
> 
> http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/nikon/313684-10-years-ago-2003-a.html
> 
> ...



So you're saying that today's phones are better than the DSLRS of 10 years ago?  That's poignant.  Why don't you also point out how today's motor scooters are faster, safer and more reliable than a Model T.  It's about as useful as a comparison.

10 years ago the comparison of like technologies was obviously digital to film, and film crushed digital for quality.  You could compare yesteryears DSLRS to camera phones from the same time... That would be more appropriate, but the "big camera" is obviously going to win.

If you want to argue that a phone is a good camera when you have no other choice, I'd support you.  If you want to argue that decent pictures CAN be taken with a phone, I'll support you.

If you want to argue that a phone camera is a good camera, I'll point and laugh.

There may come a day when scientists figure out a way to make it not so, but right now you're limited by physical qualities and business practicalities that make it impossible to make a phone a "good camera".   

I suppose I'm being unfair in saying this and taking "when compared to a real camera" as an underlying given, but then I'm not trying to compare them to Model Ts either, am I?


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## ploth (Jul 8, 2013)

Has anyone here tried ProCamera? It alludes to manual control but can't verify before purchasing. 

The Apple sdk must allow at least some manual control as KIT CAM has an exposure slider (-2 to
+2) for exposure and a wb slider. I love it for sunrise / sunset when picking a point for exposure is useless (too dark and too light). 

But I would love more control.


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## Light Guru (Jul 8, 2013)

ploth said:


> The Apple sdk must allow at least some manual control as KIT CAM has an exposure slider (-2 to
> +2) for exposure and a wb slider. I love it for sunrise / sunset when picking a point for exposure is useless (too dark and too light).
> 
> But I would love more control.



The camera element itself has a fixed aperture so the only the only control options would be shutter speed and ISO.


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## jallyjames (Aug 8, 2013)

Pleasant read and good tips. Another helpful one is that if you attach the headphones you can use the volume+ button on the cable as a remote shutter release...


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