# 5100D vs 7000D vs 300s



## paulraymond (Feb 29, 2012)

Hello Everyone,

Thanks for having me and I'm new to photography...
I'm also currently interested in purchasing one of the 3 listed above and I'm having difficulties.
Basically, I live in Europe and want to start taking "action shots" of my favorite Champions League matches (soccer  matches).
I spoken with professional photographers (I'm not a professional) and they suggest the Nikon 300s but it's quite expensive and since I'm not an expert, I'm thinking of going with the 7000D because it's got the best of 5100D, but not so far distant from the 300s..
What do you think??

I'm focusing primary on the camera, the lens would be a different discussion..


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## IgsEMT (Feb 29, 2012)

minor correction, its D-then the number, other designation related to canon bodies (i.d. 7d, 60d, 50d, etc  )

Since 300s is out side of your price range, d7000 is the better way to go. 
For me, besides the build quality of the camera (which d7000 is better then d5100) and af-motor (which d7000 has and not sure on d5100) very important aspect is control. d7k has command and sub command dial (one in the front for the index/middle finger and one in the back for the thumb). D5100 has only one dial. For me, this extra second that I need to spend on adjusting settings could mean a shot that I need vs a shot that I lost. Its about control.
As for IQ - on computer you won't see much of a difference at lower ISOs (to about 800). Above that d7000 is superior. Its AF speed is more efficient then of d5100's.

Since you mentioned d300s, 
Few disadvantages when comparing to d7000
No AF while in video,
Less in-camera editing/filters.

Advantages: better build. 

Controversy: when printing images at ISOs above 800, larger then 16x20, IQ is similar to lower ISOs. However, on d7000 (and this is the controversy) image quality subsides.  
I don't own d7000 but number of my colleagues do. From what I've seen of their prints, as well as discussing with labs and members here, there's a mix of reaction as to whether or not large prints at higher ISOs loose quality. Some people will swear with foam at their mouth that there is loss is quality. Others will swear that there isn't. I've seen both cases to be true - from different people. I can only guess that it depends on specific model you get. For me, sine large portion of my work is studio work or imitating studio conditions at different locations, such inconsistent feedback is enough to stay away from d7000. On the same note, if I needed *RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW* a camera body with af video, 2 cards, more _cheese/creative_ in-camera editing, higher ISO not being a tremendous issue and UNDER $1200 USD, then D7000 would by my choice.

Good Luck


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## paulraymond (Feb 29, 2012)

I enjoyed the controversy part of your reply:

Since my main intention to take "actions shots" of my favorite soccer games, I will be outside...
However, I fear that most of the games will be at night with low ambient light but there will be stadium lights, which means perhaps I may have to go above 800 ISO (correct me if I'm wrong).. but, I don't feel as if I'll have to go way beyond 800, so I don't know how much IQ I'll lose if that's the case..

The other uses for the camera will be during the daytime for sure, I don't think I'll use the camera that much during the evening, besides the soccer matches..

paulraymond
*



*


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## IgsEMT (Feb 29, 2012)

Well, 800, is't a problem. Again, the controversy is printing those images in large sizes. The prints are saw were shot at 1600. One looked great and another looked (less great). Both were printed in the same lab. But think ISO 1600 (see in the dark type of a thing :lmao.


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## PJK (Feb 29, 2012)

Hey guys!  Not trying to hijack the thread but I'm shopping for a similar camera.  I just wanted to throw this out there.
Since the technology is so fluid - does it make sense to get the 5100 and a couple of lenses (50mm and maybe the 18-200 VR)?  I know many people are polarized buy the Ken Rockwell site but he this the camera will get pretty close results to the 7000.

Then in a few years, if needed, maybe pick up a better body?  Can these Nikon lenses be used on the 5100 series up to the 700 series?  Thanks in advance.


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## IgsEMT (Feb 29, 2012)

Lenses you're describing can be used on higher end bodies.
18-200 is an amazing lens. I've used it both for personal reasons and professional. It has limitations in which image quality can be sacrificed but staying w/in those parameters isn't an issue.
the only thing about using dx lens on fx body is that you loose the resolution of the fx body you're using (i.e. d700 goes from 12mp to about 6). THUS if you're printing 20x30 its a problem from 6mp but 16x24 isn't


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## PJK (Feb 29, 2012)

IgsEMT said:


> Lenses you're describing can be used on higher end bodies.
> 18-200 is an amazing lens. I've used it both for personal reasons and professional. It has limitations in which image quality can be sacrificed but staying w/in those parameters isn't an issue.
> the only thing about using dx lens on fx body is that you loose the resolution of the fx body you're using (i.e. d700 goes from 12mp to about 6). THUS if you're printing 20x30 its a problem from 6mp but 16x24 isn't



Do the d7000 lenses swap with the D700 and D80 etc?


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## IgsEMT (Feb 29, 2012)

YES,
*but*
If it is a dx lens, on dx body (d7000) you'll get full resolution of the sensor. If you're using a dx lens on fx body(d700), you're loosing part of the sensor, HOWEVER, you maintain image quality. For example, I can use 18-200 on d7000 at iso 3200 and then place the same lens on d700 at iso 3200 - given all other conditions the same, image quality will be the better on Fx b/c of the engineering of the sensor, but the lens performance (sharpness, clarity) would be nearly identical. Another difference that would be different is field of view. Here's an image from wikipedia that shows differences of field of view http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/95/SensorSizes.svg dx/fx/med format/ 4/3, etc.


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## paulraymond (Mar 1, 2012)

I heard that Nikon is going to upgrade the D7000 is this correct?? or just a rumor??
If so, when is it coming out..

paulraymond


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## IgsEMT (Mar 1, 2012)

Who knows... 
d7000 is relatively new model, I don't seem them upgrading it in the next year or so. However, upgrade for d300/d300s, I believe is the next one to come.


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## sm4him (Mar 1, 2012)

Back to the "controversy" regarding the D7000 and large prints: 
Even if it's true, I wouldn't be concerned at all about that, considering this is, evidently, your first DSLR.
Since you've already said that the 300s is out of your budget, and you're choosing between the D7000 and the D5100, the controversy is a non-issue. You'll definitely get as good or better prints from the D7000 as you will from the D5100.

I have the D5100 and I love it.  The major *con*, and really the ONLY thing that makes me wish I'd gotten the D7000, is the lack of an internal motor.  That means you have to either buy the more expensive AF-S lenses for the D5100 or you have to manually focus with the other lenses.  Vision problems make that a bit difficult for me sometimes, though I do still manage it when necessary.

My understanding is that the D7000 will perform better in low light too (compared to the 5100); no personal experience with that, just what I've heard.

If you can afford it, and are absolutely certain photography is something you're going to take the CONSIDERABLE time it requires to really learn it, then get the D7000 and a couple of good quality lenses.  Honestly, you'll end up saving enough on two AF lenses versus their AF-S counterparts, that you'll make up the higher cost of the D7000 body.  If I'd realized that at the beginning, I would have gone with the D7000.

BUT, if you do end up with the D5100, as long as you've got a quality lens or two, you'll be quite happy with it.  I don't plan to upgrade anytime in the near future (unless a deal I can't resist comes along).


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## rmstudios (Mar 1, 2012)

Read this, it will help. 

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d7000.htm


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## EchoingWhisper (Mar 1, 2012)

IgsEMT said:


> minor correction, its D-then the number, other designation related to canon bodies (i.d. 7d, 60d, 50d, etc  )
> 
> Since 300s is out side of your price range, d7000 is the better way to go.
> For me, besides the build quality of the camera (which d7000 is better then d5100) and af-motor (which d7000 has and not sure on d5100) very important aspect is control. d7k has command and sub command dial (one in the front for the index/middle finger and one in the back for the thumb). D5100 has only one dial. For me, this extra second that I need to spend on adjusting settings could mean a shot that I need vs a shot that I lost. Its about control.
> ...



Woah? They have the same sensor dude. Check DxOMark's score before making assumptions.


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## EchoingWhisper (Mar 1, 2012)

rmstudios said:


> Read this, it will help.
> 
> Nikon D7000



Never suggest beginners to Ken Rockwell. He's all bias and jokes.


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## SixShotEspressO (Mar 1, 2012)

didn't invest the time to read all posts, but I too am considering this and when stacked side by side the d700 seems to be not only a better deal but a better performer than the d300s???? I guess I'm after a d7000 since Nikon let me down with the d800.




paulraymond said:


> Hello Everyone,
> 
> Thanks for having me and I'm new to photography...
> I'm also currently interested in purchasing one of the 3 listed above and I'm having difficulties.
> ...


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## EchoingWhisper (Mar 1, 2012)

IgsEMT said:


> minor correction, its D-then the number, other designation related to canon bodies (i.d. 7d, 60d, 50d, etc  )
> 
> Since 300s is out side of your price range, d7000 is the better way to go.
> For me, besides the build quality of the camera (which d7000 is better then d5100) and af-motor (which d7000 has and not sure on d5100) very important aspect is control. d7k has command and sub command dial (one in the front for the index/middle finger and one in the back for the thumb). D5100 has only one dial. For me, this extra second that I need to spend on adjusting settings could mean a shot that I need vs a shot that I lost. Its about control.
> ...



I don't know where have you heard about the controversy. I think that all of them is bull****ting. There is no such thing as no image quality loss at higher ISO, every single camera that problem, and that inconsistent feedback is due to the BSes of your friends, not because of the camera.


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## EchoingWhisper (Mar 1, 2012)

IgsEMT said:


> minor correction, its D-then the number, other designation related to canon bodies (i.d. 7d, 60d, 50d, etc  )
> 
> Since 300s is out side of your price range, d7000 is the better way to go.
> For me, besides the build quality of the camera (which d7000 is better then d5100) and af-motor (which d7000 has and not sure on d5100) very important aspect is control. d7k has command and sub command dial (one in the front for the index/middle finger and one in the back for the thumb). D5100 has only one dial. For me, this extra second that I need to spend on adjusting settings could mean a shot that I need vs a shot that I lost. Its about control.
> ...



Again, I don't know where did you get the BS, the D7000 and D5100 currently has the best APS-C sensor.


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## EchoingWhisper (Mar 1, 2012)

paulraymond said:


> I heard that Nikon is going to upgrade the D7000 is this correct?? or just a rumor??
> If so, when is it coming out..
> 
> paulraymond



If there is no disaster, it will likely be updated this August. Nikon digital cameras are updated every 2-3 years.


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## EchoingWhisper (Mar 1, 2012)

I have a D5100. The only problem I find with it is the lack of more external controls. Other than that, I don't mind. Don't worry about not able to autofocus with older lens, most lens you will buy is be a AF-S lens. AF-S lens are newer and generally better. One thing I find as a plus for D7000 is the virtual horizon, it will help a lot. Next thing you should know is that you could actually shoot with D7000 in the rain, but don't try it with D5100.

One advice for you - buy a DX lens. Don't invest in a FX lens, you could always sell your DX lenses. There's no point lugging a larger than needed lens everyday.

Two pros of D5100 compared to D7000 - a slightly better meter and it's screen.


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## o hey tyler (Mar 1, 2012)

EW, fit all your posts into one post. Rather than quoting IGS's several times and saying something similar as a response each time. It's unnecessary.


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## EchoingWhisper (Mar 1, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


> EW, fit all your posts into one post. Rather than quoting IGS's several times and saying something similar as a response each time. It's unnecessary.



Kay.


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## KmH (Mar 1, 2012)

EchoingWhisper said:


> Woah? They have the same sensor dude. Check DxOMark's score before making assumptions.


Actually, they don't have exactly the same image sensor, but they do have very similar image sensors. Note the D7000 has slight better dynamic range, but slightly less ISO performance than the D5100.

However, it is fair to say that the basic image sensor design is the same. Sony makes that 16 MP image sensor. It is used in the 2 Nikon's, the Pentax K5, and the Sony 580. 

By the same token the EXPEED 2 image processor in the D5100 isn't exactly the same as the EXPEED 2 image processor that is in the D7000.

All also according to DXO Mark.


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## EchoingWhisper (Mar 2, 2012)

KmH said:


> EchoingWhisper said:
> 
> 
> > Woah? They have the same sensor dude. Check DxOMark's score before making assumptions.
> ...



DxOMark said it's error of calculation can be up to 1/3 of a stop, so it might actually have the same sensor.


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## djacobox372 (Mar 4, 2012)

The D7000 an D5100 have the same sensor, image quality is identical.  The D300s has an older sensor, with inferior image quality, I wouldn't consider it as an option.


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## IgsEMT (Mar 4, 2012)

EchoingWhisper said:


> IgsEMT said:
> 
> 
> > minor correction, its D-then the number, other designation related to canon bodies (i.d. 7d, 60d, 50d, etc  )
> ...



Two responses? Did I hit the nerve 
Where I heard? Simple, I contacted 3 of my local photo labs that _only serve_ professional photographers and asked them on the feedback of the prints. About 2 months after the camera was released and images were in prints, feedback was that some of the files were coming out to be very nice while others weren't. 
In the mid of it all four studios,  that I shoot for, use(d) d7000 either as primary or as a back up. 
Two of the guys swear by it, saying that for the price, it is an amazing piece of machine. 
One gal bought it and ended up using it as a her 3rd body (One d700 is mounted with 24-70 and quantum flash, second d700 with 70-200 and sb900, 3rd body NOW d7000 with the fisheye and no flash). The reason why d7000 isn't the primary portrait camera is b/c large prints aren't the greatest quality - either hit/miss.
 Forth studio the guy bought it to replace his d200 and after two weddings sold it - again large prints were lacking quality.
Personally: I've worked with it, and just like all Nikons controls are native and smooth, focusing speed varied w/ the lens mounted but overall was fast. Metering/exposure in TTL was pretty accurate. When I held two sets of 16x20 prints of the Bride and Groom in my hands (double shot), it felt like they were printed from different cameras. Both were shot less then a second apart from the same camera... similar feedback I got from other people.
I'm not an engeneer and don't care to understand sensor specs, b/c at the end of the day when a sale is needed to be made and equipment isn't providing quality I need to make that sale, it isn't the camera I want to have. 
Maybe this was a generation of the camera (like the first batch of d3 and d700 also varied from body to body) - I don't know but my ultimate test is what images look like in print from pro lab.
On different note, many of my clients bought them selves d7000, never printed anything larger then 4x6 (I know that b/c I asked) and never saw images from the camera bigger then on 19inch monitor; but they totally love it! 
I love my D700, but few studios I work for who shoot Canon, wouldn't touch a Nikon if their lives depended on it. B/n 5d and 5dm2, I prefer 5d b/c of the handling of it and I'm sure someone here who shoots with 5dm2 will give me the specs on how great this camera is and better then 5d.
OP asked for advise and feedback. All of us provided *subjective* feedback based on your personal experiences. At the end of the day, when OP takes all 3 bodies and uses them, he might like one of the other b/c he just likes it that way and not for any other reason.


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## xj0hnx (Mar 4, 2012)

D5100 body, no kit lens, and sink the rest plus the difference between it and a D7000 into as good of a lens as you can afford. My dad let me run around town today with his Nikon 80-400mm f/4.5-5.6D ED VR on my D5100, and it blew my mind the difference that lens made. Don't get me wrong, the 18-55mm can produce a good picture, but that lens is really that much better.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Mar 4, 2012)

Techies.   

Light 'em up and shoot. I still break out the D80 sometimes.


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## EchoingWhisper (Mar 5, 2012)

The 18-55mm is not bad actually, but its build quality is a little on the fragile side.


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