# How to price 360 pano



## vvcarpio (Aug 30, 2016)

About a month ago my long time client asked if I do 360 panorama and suggested that I do. So I started tinkering (and got hooked).

Just yesterday I showed him my sample panos. He sounded excited and said he has a couple of projects to shoot.

Sterling Forest Visitor Center
Cragsmoor Stone Church

Probably my mistake was I didn't mention pricing when I showed him my samples. I was thinking pricing should be apart from my normal hourly rate. 360 panos take quite a bit more work to process (8 HDR-generated images stitched together, individually inspected for dust specks, etc.) and additional gear during the shoot. But I'm concerned he might be thinking it would be part of my normal hourly rate.

Before I showed him my samples, I had contacted houzz.com for pricing.  I signed up for their Photographer Network and found it helpful to quote prospective clients with the prices they had set up. They said they'd be happy to and may eventually do but as of now I'm still waiting.

I also looked online for pano photographers' pricing but couldn't find definitive pricing. I think panos are being packaged along with regular photo shoots.

Is $119 too high? $75 too low? Should I just charge my normal hourly rate? I am just beginning with pano photography but do not want to hurt the industry with too low prices. At the same time I value my client both in terms of as professional and as friend.

Any advice, links to virtual tour photographers with prices on their websites, and how to acquire the proper mindset when it comes to pricing (I'm really agonizing) greatly appreciated.

Thank you so much.


----------



## tirediron (Aug 30, 2016)

I hope you're meaning $119 and $75 as HOURLY rates.  How many hours went into the final product and what are the intended uses?


----------



## vvcarpio (Aug 30, 2016)

I was thinking per pano. But I (think I) get your message -- much too low.

I used 119 as example because I found it mentioned in a website on pricing 360 panos, but the blog sounded theoretical-for-the-sake-of-discussion, not actual price.

I realize prices can go crazy-high but wanted to get an idea where a starter would be (without hurting the industry)...

Intended use is marketing material -- either architectural design, real estate sales, airbnb, etc.

Thanks a lot, tirediron.


----------



## vvcarpio (Aug 30, 2016)

Forgot to answer your other question -- each took under 2 hours. I could probably get it down to an hour.


----------



## tirediron (Aug 30, 2016)

That's TOTAL time; consult, travel, shooting, processing and delivery?  I would see this as about a $250 - 300 product plus usage.


----------



## vvcarpio (Aug 30, 2016)

Thank you, tirediron. This helps a lot.


----------



## jeffW (Aug 31, 2016)

or double or triple Tirediron's numbers- the simple fact is you need to know your true CODB. Tirediron does not have to pay the same rent/mortgage as someone who lives in NYC

And basing your price on a website/shyster that pulls naive talent off Craigslist then takes the files and runs it all through an automated process (claiming good enough on blaring obvious mistakes) who charge a lowball price because they are taking advantage of stupid art students is not smart.  You are building the pan as an individual making creative decisions, trouble shooting problems and answering the phone when the client calls and asks for help - your product is much different.

 To claim you can do this in an hour is outright wrong you've already admitted to taking the time to learn the process - didn't that take time, how about the computer system you are using? Answer this question what are all the fields in your CODB?  There is a reason photographers have to charge $1000s for what might seem as simple jobs because they are not photographers they are service providers bring thousands of dollars of equipment and months/years of training to a job - not even accounting for any natural artistic ability.

As far as usage goes, well that's a battle that could be lost - I've heard of videos intended only for the internet being licensed based on how many people view them.  But in my sad humble opinion being able to adjust usage based on web popularity is beyond me.  This is where I would wrap the usage and your creative fee into one price for a certain length of time, say three years. Of course have your production costs as a separate fee to line itemize tangibles such as parking, computer processing time, delivery (web hosting files so clients can download without waiting for FedEx)

Please don't take my post as being negative but anyone who can quote a number like $119 needs two things, first you NEED to mathematically do your CODB then you need to find an accountant, mentor, someone who can double check your numbers and if you are correctly accounting for all the fields involved.  Do you have a retirement fund, healthcare insurance set up with that $119 number?


----------



## tirediron (Aug 31, 2016)

You're absolutely right Jeff; my price is based my [much lower] CODB, and I would also wrap up the usage as part of the total price.  Usage by number of views or circulation is a losing proposition now.  In fact usage licensing period is going the way of the wooly mammoth.  Clients don't seem to understand the concept.


----------



## vvcarpio (Aug 31, 2016)

Thank you, Jeff, for pointing me in the right direction. This is also very useful. (Sorry to repeat myself.) I already put up the price ($250) tirediron suggested on my houzz.com profile.

I mentioned $119 to start with something -- the lowest number I remember seeing on the web. (I also remember seeing $150 and $250 but as a package along with x-number of photos.) My thought was I will package it, too, with a set of images for a minimum of, say, $300 to be worth the trip.

In my area, I have had several calls who didn't follow through. So I think I'm at a price-point that some can afford (remodelers like kitchens can't because of low profit margins according to my architect-client he's sure about that) while some like wealthier homeowners or business startups (presumably because they have a budget) can. So I'm losing some and winning some and may be at the sweet-spot price-point for my area.

I didn't take your post in a negative way at all. It's much appreciated -- thanks.


----------



## jeffW (Sep 5, 2016)

let me clarify.  Usage licensing is very much the way to price photography, because the original question related to a product and is solely designed to me viewed on the web then to me it becomes a mute point.  I would still make sure any additional party interested in the pano understood they need to license the pano as well. And no free sharing between contractors, designers, developers etc.

Second your prices are still way too low for NYC.  You need to do your CODB  what do you have to lose!?!

" low profit margins according to my architect-client he's sure about that"
Ask me, a buyer, if I think camera prices are ridiculously too high of course my answer is going to yes.

 What is the cost of a typical professional remodel job $15,000, $25,000?  If that remodeler losses one single prospect because their website communicates to a skittish homeowner that their not professional and yes we judge quality images to relate to the professionalism of the company, is the cost of true professional photos not worth every penny? 

You are working for your business and in order to do that you need to at the very minimum cover your CODB.  They seem very capable of coming up with the funds for their fishing boats, family vacations, a new F-350 truck  etc..

NPPA use to have a CODB worksheet on their website you might want to see if it's still there, also when dividing the number of billable days be incredibly pessimistic. Anything over 70 is not probably realistic.  ASMP has chapters everywhere, you might want to go to a meeting and talk with some of the folks there.


----------



## vvcarpio (Sep 6, 2016)

Thank you, Jeff.


----------

