# Cleaning 1920's negatives and 50 year old slides



## Lyman Smith

I have ambarked upon the project of scanning my family's immense collection of slides and negatives.  My family had a photography business in the 50's and 60's.  I also have the negatives from my Grandmother's old Brownie or some such camera from the 20's. (Hundreds of them) 
I got am amazing scanner last week and its incredibly simple to use on these, but I need to clean them safely.  Some of these slides have been out in my Dad's garage for the last 20 years and are covered in dust.
Some of these slides and negatives may be very historically significant to our area.  Please don't suggest taking the collection to an expert....it consists of over 10,000 items and the cost would be very prohibitive.  If these aren't preserved soon, they will be lost forever.
Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## W.Smith

I know how you feel: I've been doing the same thing since going digital 5 years ago. Still got more than half the family's photo archive to go. Starting with prints from the 1860's and -70's... And every month photos are still being found in deep drawers and albums that need to be preserved too. I'm afraid it will take me another 5 years at _least_ (if I _ever_ get finished...).

As far as I know there is no short-cut. It is very time consuming. This is 'manual labor' in the 21st century... Already spent hundreds of hours on it. And probably will have spent thousands by the time I finish.
I regard it as my contribution to the family history.

Tip:
if you archive on DVD you need to be aware that DVD's are an UNstable storage medium! It's neccessary to burn brandnew copies on brandnew DVD's every 2 years (then trash the old ones). Because tests in its short life's history have already shown that the plastics of many DVD disks react chemically to one another, so that eventually the DVD will become unreadable (some even as soon as after only 3 years!).
Obviously you need to burn a new one well before that happens.
Let's keep our fingers crossed "they" will develop another storage medium soon that _IS_ stable so that we can stop having to re-burn/replace our DVD archives every 2 years.

So hang in there, Lyman!


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## terri

Lyman Smith said:
			
		

> I have ambarked upon the project of scanning my family's immense collection of slides and negatives. My family had a photography business in the 50's and 60's. I also have the negatives from my Grandmother's old Brownie or some such camera from the 20's. (Hundreds of them)
> I got am amazing scanner last week and its incredibly simple to use on these, but I need to clean them safely. Some of these slides have been out in my Dad's garage for the last 20 years and are covered in dust.
> Some of these slides and negatives may be very historically significant to our area. Please don't suggest taking the collection to an expert....it consists of over 10,000 items and the cost would be very prohibitive. If these aren't preserved soon, they will be lost forever.
> Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


First, I'm assuming you've gathered them all together and they are inside, out of excessive humidity, etc. That's the first part. 

You are indeed looking at a labor of love. Get yourself some canned air and perhaps a soft sable brush. Many of these slides might be just fine after a quick spraying on either side (be careful not to shake canned air!). If you can line several of them up on a table, you might be able to move along with some speed, maybe a few dozen at a time, front and back. Once you're ready to scan, take another look to see if touch-up is needed.

For negatives, handle with great care, but try the same approach of a simple spraying with canned air, or a very gentle brushing off with the sable brush. If any are very stubborn, you might have to get a product like Film Kleen and use sparingly. Once cleaned, I'd invest in archival negative sleeves and store them in boxes. If the time comes where they need to be re-scanned (or who knows, a budding photographer in your family might want to make enlargements some day!) they will be safe for decades. 

No need to rush this project, just settle in and take great pleasure in being the one who gets to preserve your family's history like this. :thumbup: 

Have fun.


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## W.Smith

If you still have old, _printable_ negatives, they are probably not much older than 50/60 years. Because the physical material of most negatives  as well as of 8mm, 16mm, and 35mm 'movie' film  chemically degrades over time. It will become brittle, stiff, and breakable. Eventually the negatives (and films) will disintegrate into dust. Literally. So don't count on simply cleaning and archiving them if you want to preserve them! They _will_ be gone within a few decades if you do only that! So, for posterity, they _must_ be digitized! And the digital copy renewed every 2 years...


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## terri

I certainly don't dispute digitizing them, but a properly cleaned, archivally stored negative still has a few centuries left to it.  Make the effort to clean and preserve them, and you'll only need to do that once. I also agree you'll need to keep after those digital files every couple of years.


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## W.Smith

terri said:
			
		

> I certainly don't dispute digitizing them, but a properly cleaned, archivally stored negative still has a few centuries left to it.


"centuries"....?
Dream on! 60 to 100 years tops! (IF you're lucky!).
Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_preservation.


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## terri

W.Smith said:
			
		

> "centuries"....?
> Dream on! 60 to 100 years tops! (IF you're lucky!).
> Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_preservation.


uh...I'm not talking about "movies of the first half of the 20th century". Neither is the OP, from what I could gather.     If we're not talking about nitrate based negs, then you're good to go for centuries, yes.


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## fmw

If it were my project, I would simply wash the negs in an appropriate tank, photo-flo them and hang them up to dry.  The mounted transparencies should just be blown dry with canned air.  Whatever you can't get off will be fodder for the PS spot healing tool.


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## W.Smith

terri said:
			
		

> uh...I'm not talking about "movies of the first half of the 20th century". Neither is the OP, from what I could gather.     If we're not talking about nitrate based negs, then you're good to go for centuries, yes.


Nitrate based negs &#8211; "celluloid" &#8211; was used in virtually _all_ photo and movie films until well into the seventies of the last century. So if you've got 30 year old negs, or older, you can simply wait for their disappearing act. It's inevitable.


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## W.Smith

terri said:
			
		

> uh...I'm not talking about "movies of the first half of the 20th century". Neither is the OP, from what I could gather.


Read the OP again then. It says "[...] _my family's immense collection of slides and negatives. My family had a photography business in the 50's and 60's. I also have the negatives from my Grandmother's old Brownie or some such camera from the 20's. (Hundreds of them)_ [...]".
In other words he has an "immense collection" that's about 50 years old, and "hundreds" that are almost 90 years old.
And _all_ of those _will_ disappear/disintegrate within the OP's lifetime!


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## terri

> Nitrate based negs  "celluloid"  was used in virtually _all_ photo and movie films until well into the seventies of the last century.


Simply not accurate. Not all film bases were nitrate. It behooved film manufacturers to find bases that weren't so unstable. From 1947 on triacetate based films were in wide use, and those have the staying power. And happily for Lyman, there is an easy way to tell, for nitrate based films will show a yellowish tinge. The negatives from the '50's and '60's, if well processed, and triacetate based, will probably last a couple centuries with no significant change. Virtually all modern cut films are polyester based and will last indefnitely with proper care and storage. 

One more thing about digital files, Lyman: you might want to send those files around to various family members in case yours got lost. There is safety in redundancy!


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## W.Smith

terri said:
			
		

> [...] The negatives from the '50's and '60's, if well processed, and [if] triacetate based, will probably last a couple centuries with no significant change. [...]


Two consecutive if's. That doesn't make for good odds. Ask any blackjack player.


> [...] One more thing about digital files, Lyman: you might want to send those files around to various family members in case yours got lost. There is safety in redundancy!


Amen!


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## Lyman Smith

Thank you for all the input.  My grandmother's negatives have been surprisingly well kept and about 10 years ago, when I found someone who would still print about 20 of them, was pleasently surprised with the quality of the photograph produced from a 1928 negative.

The idea about the canned air is excellent.  Is there a safe liquid cleaner I could clean them with gently using a q-tip perhaps, then maybe follow up with the canned air?

I will be sending other members of the family the discs produced and after the cleaning process, scanning and storing them in airtight plastic containers in a dust free, dark environment.

Thanks for the help...any other tips?
And by the way, I am female, Lyman is typically a man's name, I was named for my Grandfather.  My mother thought it would go well with Smith...LOL 
L.


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## JamesD

I think I'd avoid Q-tips.  I've noted that cotton scratches delicate things.  They say, I think, Camel hair brushes work well for that sort of work (Terri, check me on this).  Also, I've found that tape backups tend to last a long time if accessed infrequently.  You might want to consider that as an option; it's a bit expensive, and you need to keep them away from magnetic fields, but they work well and store a lot.  You might try backing them up to several different types of media, as well, just in case.

W.Smith, why would you suppose that film processed by a business would be substandard?


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## terri

ooo, I'd have to agree with James - don't use Q-tips on negatives, especially wet negatives! They may feel soft to you but wet emulsion thinks they're sandpaper.  In fact, just about anything touching a wet emulsion is bad news! 

A camel hair brush, James? What did I say up there, sable? I have a few small sable artist's brushes that have done well on dry negs, so I trust it. Camel hair might be very similar. I rarely have a negative that needs much beyond a shot of canned air or a touch of Film Kleen (which is used sparingly on a dry negative). 

Lyman - try simple canned air first, before you think about wetting the negs. It might be all you need.


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## ladyphotog

I still have negatives and trans from the 30's and they are in great shape. Also some really old ones that we think are from the 1890's, they are tin. Don't let anyone scare you that they are going to disappear. Just take it slow and try not to wet them unless there is nothing else that will help. Usually cleaning what is on the surface that can be removed with a soft brush and canned air (be careful with the air, there are chemicals in it that can spot your negs), then scanning and using PS. Make several copies and update them often. Store your newly cleaned negs and trans in archival sleeves and boxes to keep them out of the light. Also, keep them in a cool place. I have mine stored in sleeves and boxes under the bed. I pull them out every once in a while and check them. If you do need to clean them more than air and a bruch, use photoflo before any negative cleaner, the negs are porous and the neg cleaner can cause problems. Also, the film base was was changed to cellulose diacetate in 1923 with the introduction of safety film. Movie film and end runs of 35mm movie film that was sold as 35mm still film still had a cellulose nitrate base until the 50's. Take a look at the negs and if they say safety film you are fine. Good luck!


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## JamesD

I'm not sure about the camel-hair brush, Terri.  I think that's what I've always heard... but I could be mistaken.

As far as canned air goes... I'd really recommend going with an air compressor.  The media have already been exposed to air, so more air shouldn't hurt them...  Just make sure you keep a watch on the pressure.  But, there "shouldn't" be any problem with the canned air.   It couldn't hurt to read the warning labels before you use it, though.

Oh, and with a compressor, make sure you blow quite a bit of air through it before you start dusting.  I've seen considerable water come out of compressors before.  Condensation.  I shudder to think what might happen with droplets of water blasting the emusion along with high-pressure air.  Normally, several seconds is enough to get it all out... when you don't see any water droplets, you're fine.


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