# Spot Metering Automatic Vs. Manual



## FLCKeats (Mar 29, 2017)

Hi all,

In short, I had a coworker today tell me that you "don't spot meter on manual mode". 

This threw me through a loop. I'm not a beginner, but I'm not advanced, and I've always used various metering modes on manual to achieve the correct exposure.

Any insight? Always down to learn something new.

Thanks!


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## tirediron (Mar 29, 2017)

I'd ask him 'Why not?".  Metering modes and exposure modes are not linked.  I'm as likely to spot meter in manual as I am to use centre-weighted in aperture-priority.  Use whatever gets the result you need.


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## FLCKeats (Mar 29, 2017)

Her explanation was that: "You only use spot-metering on automatic so that when you meter on the 'spot' you want, the automatic exposure compensates and corrects the rest of the image, as where on manual, you have to go in and fix everything else once that one spot is correctly metered."


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## Designer (Mar 29, 2017)

Does the coworker claim to know anything about photography?  I think you should just keep doing what you need to do, and never mind what that person told you.


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## FLCKeats (Mar 29, 2017)

Designer said:


> Does the coworker claim to know anything about photography?  I think you should just keep doing what you need to do, and never mind what that person told you.



That's actually what threw me off. She previously worked at a camera/photography store and produces nice prints. I'm not sure if she's taking an odd stance on this, but I've never heard of her commentaire practiced by any photographer.


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## table1349 (Mar 29, 2017)

Your coworker brings this to mind.  N.S.F.W.


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## Ysarex (Mar 29, 2017)

FLCKeats said:


> Her explanation was that: "You only use spot-metering on automatic so that when you meter on the 'spot' you want, the automatic exposure compensates and corrects the rest of the image, as where on manual, you have to go in and fix everything else once that one spot is correctly metered."



That explanation suggests a fundamental misunderstanding of how cameras work.

Joe


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## table1349 (Mar 29, 2017)

Ysarex said:


> FLCKeats said:
> 
> 
> > Her explanation was that: "You only use spot-metering on automatic so that when you meter on the 'spot' you want, the automatic exposure compensates and corrects the rest of the image, as where on manual, you have to go in and fix everything else once that one spot is correctly metered."
> ...


Ya Think???


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## Overread (Mar 29, 2017)

FLCKeats said:


> Her explanation was that: "You only use spot-metering on automatic so that when you meter on the 'spot' you want, the automatic exposure compensates and corrects the rest of the image, as where on manual, you have to go in and fix everything else once that one spot is correctly metered."



I think this person has a bit of an odd stance on a single metering mode which likely reflects on incomplete understanding on their part; or a poor phrasing of their reasoning.

No matter what metering mode you use you still have to change the settings yourself in manual mode. Spot metering is no different. Spot metering in manual can let you spot meter one spot; let you change those settings for that point and then recompose knowing that the settings are based on the spot you selected no matter where you recompose to. 

You can also use spot metering to meter on various light sources to get a rough idea of the overall exposure spread of a scene and then, in manual mode, pick settings that would best balance that scene exposure wise.


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## Derrel (Mar 29, 2017)

Well...there's more than one way to use a camera. In Av or A mode, you can use spot metering, meter a desired spot, and let the shutter speed move up or down to whatever, and press the AE lock button with the right thumb, to HOLD the reading, compose, focus, and shoot. This is a fast way to use SPOT metering in an automated metering mode.

Other people will use M mode, and place the spot on the metering area, and *manually* adjust the exposure to the right value, and then leave it there. This is the most-commony heard of, most normal, accepted way to SPOT meter a scene. But not the 'only' way!

I dunno...SPOT metering used wrongly leads to more screw-ups than fix-ups, in my experience. Spot metering can lead to hugely varying exposure meter readings. I've used it both in M and A modes, but I use it very,very rarely, and understand what I want to do with it, its limitations, and its strengths. I grew up without any spot metering capability, but relied on Nikon's 60/40 and 80/20 center-weighted metering system. (The F3HP had the 80/20 balance, very un-Nikon-like.)

As to your friend's comment that, "Her explanation was that: "You only use spot-metering on automatic so that when you meter on the 'spot' you want, the automatic exposure compensates and corrects the rest of the image, as where on manual, you have to go in and fix everything else once that one spot is correctly metered."--Ummmmmm.....NO.....not the way this really,truly works.


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## tirediron (Mar 29, 2017)

She's on crack.


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## Dave442 (Mar 29, 2017)

Good to see that you came here to ask. I would hate to have seen you spend the next few years switching over to automatic mode every time you used spot metering.


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## jcdeboever (Mar 29, 2017)

She spends to much time on Petapixel. Next time you talk to her,  ask her if ISO is part of the exposure triangle. 

Sent from my SM-T377V using ThePhotoForum.com mobile app


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## Vtec44 (Mar 29, 2017)

I spot meter in manual mode 99.976% of the time.


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## zombiesniper (Mar 29, 2017)

It's funny how some people stand firm on something so obviously crap.
For wildlife I almost exclusively use spot metering in manual.


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## FLCKeats (Mar 29, 2017)

Thanks for all your responses.

I thought as  much, but oddly, when someone throws out something that obscure, I have to check. 

I felt like I was missing some secret of photography. I know now, I'm not.


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## Derrel (Mar 29, 2017)

Be careful if you put a camera into SPOT metering mode and start shooting in Av or Tv mode...it can lead to wild exposure fluctuations, and if *you're not paying attention* to the rear LCD, and are just blazing away, it's possible to get huge deviations in the exposures from scene to scene, or even shot to shot, just based on whatever comes to rest in the center of the viewfinder, where most spot meters meter ambient light--smack dab in the center of the finder.

I really see little use for spot metering in 2017 on d-slrs; you've got a histogram and blinkies and INSTANT, on-the-scene "developing" nowadays...it's easy to take a conventional center-weighted reading, or a matrix meter reading, shoot a shot, then review it, and see how well the exposure turned out.

Spot metering is fine for experienced shooters, but again, it's got some very serious consequences if it is used in a slapdash or forgetful way! Believe me--I've screwed up in spot metering mode, in the way I am cautioning against, and it can be UGLY!

Spot metering is really for "experts" and "serious" shooters who are paying very close attention,all the time. If you think you're in CW or Matrix in AV or TV modes, but are actually in spot metering, oh man, it can be horrible to see wild exposure swings of 3,4,5,6 stops!


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## jcdeboever (Mar 30, 2017)

Derrel said:


> Be careful if you put a camera into SPOT metering mode and start shooting in Av or Tv mode...it can lead to wild exposure fluctuations, and if *you're not paying attention* to the rear LCD, and are just blazing away, it's possible to get huge deviations in the exposures from scene to scene, or even shot to shot, just based on whatever comes to rest in the center of the viewfinder, where most spot meters meter ambient light--smack dab in the center of the finder.
> 
> I really see little use for spot metering in 2017 on d-slrs; you've got a histogram and blinkies and INSTANT, on-the-scene "developing" nowadays...it's easy to take a conventional center-weighted reading, or a matrix meter reading, shoot a shot, then review it, and see how well the exposure turned out.
> 
> ...



I agree for the most part. I found this out because I shoot flowers at SPOT nearly 50% of the time but forgot to check it and missed some shots when not thinking it all the way through. I think using spot and AE-L is very useful in difficult visualizations / situations. Matrix seems more like auto mode to me and seems to be all on or all off, never could quite figure out where to use it with 100% confidence, seems to work well indoors and landscapes. The mentor I worked with for a short time once said, "we were taking amazing images, long before spot and matrix came along and said to be careful what you read on the subject." He also said it's easy to get trapped in technology, the two biggest mistakes he read on the internet were ISO and metering. He said ISO is gain or signal to noise ratio, not sensor light sensitivity, and spot metering is a wonderful tool.  I have never heard many people talk or write about ISO in-variance, ISO gain, signal to noise ratio, AE-L type stuff. Once he told me about that, now I know what to look up.


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## astroNikon (Mar 30, 2017)

FLCKeats said:


> Her explanation was that: "You only use spot-metering on automatic so that when you meter on the 'spot' you want, the automatic exposure compensates and corrects the rest of the image, as where on manual, you have to go in and fix everything else once that one spot is correctly metered."


I'll also jump on the bandwagon that your friend is whackoo.

Example:  Go take a photo in any exposure mode in spot metering mode of the inside of a dark pipe on a bright day from a good distance.  What happens to the rest of the image if the dark pipe is properly exposed?  Then expand the metering area and see how the scene changes.

Such a simple "rule/statement" shows a lack of understanding of the metering modes. You have to use the correct metering mode for the scene/situation.  Not because of a specific Exposure Mode.


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## tokaji michael (Mar 30, 2017)

I think that spot metering is just ok, so you always know where is the camera metering , i always use spot metering and sometimes partial metering


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## Gary A. (Mar 30, 2017)

I use Spot and Manual 99% of the time.


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## table1349 (Mar 30, 2017)

Gary A. said:


> I use Spot and Manual 99% of the time.


Well obviously you need to learn something about being a real photographer. 

You should probably take lessons from this guy since he lives in your area I do believe.   He's pretty good in my opinion.


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## Ysarex (Mar 30, 2017)

I just hold my finger up in the light -- works every time.

Joe


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## vintagesnaps (Mar 30, 2017)

If she ran a camera store (edit - worked at a store... kind of different) and this is what she thinks works, so be it, maybe it works for her. Sometimes I think people can get into using a particular technique that they swear by but isn't necessarily the only/best way. Good thing you took the advice with a big grain of salt.


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## Derrel (Mar 30, 2017)

Ysarex said:
			
		

> I just hold my finger up in the light -- works every time.
> 
> Joe
> 
> View attachment 137305



But ya' hafta' lick the finger first, to tell what direction the wind is coming from, right? Speaking of fingers, and such...who remembers using the camera's built-in light meter to read a close-up meter reading of your palm ()without casting a shadow on the open palm!), and the opening up the lens one stop, or slowing the indicated shutter speed down by one EV value? I'm sure there are a few older folks here who recall this era.

Measuring the light falling on the open palm from close-up is an old method to sort of simulate an incident light meter reading, and was popular for about two decades (or more) before it fell out of common use. When I started, I often did that: I metered my left palm, and opened up one f/stop, and called that the "incident" light reading value. And no, I am not kidding about this. I had a GE light meter, and then a Weston Master II meter in that era.


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## jcdeboever (Mar 30, 2017)

Gary A. said:


> I use Spot and Manual 99% of the time.


You have too, you carry around 14 flipping cameras per shoot.


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## TCampbell (Mar 30, 2017)

I see two areas where your friend is confused.

I'll take the second one first... 

"exposure compensation" is something you can dial in for any of the creative modes *except* manual mode.  So if you shoot aperture priority, shutter priority, or program mode... and lets say for example that you want to dial back exposure compensation to -1 stop.  You would do that in any of the semi-automatic modes.  In manual mode, you'd adjust the exposure so the digital needle in your viewfinder shows you're a stop below the zero or center point.  

HOWEVER... "exposure compensation" (EC) can be dialed into Program, Aperture, or Shutter priority _regardless of which _metering mode you chose (you can dial in EC in spot metering, evaluative/matrix metering, etc.)  EC isn't limited to just using 'spot' metering with 'automatic' mode (usually fully automatic mode won't let you make adjustments, but Program mode will.)

As for the first point (which most everyone has made already so I'll chime in with my "me too" answer)...

The metering mode simply decides how much of the scene (and what area) should be considered when coming up with the exposure recommendation.   You can think of the exposure recommendation as an EV (Exposure Value).

Having that, now you get to decide how to make that exposure... do you want to shoot wide aperture and a faster shutter speed or a tiny aperture and a longer shutter speed, etc.   That's where the manual vs. aperture priority vs. shutter priority come in to play.  

I use most of the modes on my daily and I also use most of the metering modes.  But as John points out... they aren't "linked".

I tend to use spot metering only occasionally and the times that I use it are when I actually want the camera to disregard the light values in the rest of the frame because I realize that taking them into considering will ruin the exposure.  A common time when this happens is concert photography in dark venues.  A "matrix metering" or "evaluative metering" mode will try to consider the whole scene.  And since the background is nearly black, the camera will try to bring up the blacks at the cost of blowing out the highlights.  So I typically spot meter on the performer's face.  I've also found there's commonly a relationship between the spot metering and evaluative metering depending on the lighting for the venue (if it isn't changing frequently but for some concerts it is changing frequently).  So sometimes I'll use evaluative metering but dial in some exposure compensation.


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## Gary A. (Mar 30, 2017)

gryphonslair99 said:


> Gary A. said:
> 
> 
> > I use Spot and Manual 99% of the time.
> ...


That was funny. Lol

You're right, he actually lives with my wife.


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## table1349 (Mar 30, 2017)

Gary A. said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> > Gary A. said:
> ...


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## petrochemist (Mar 31, 2017)

FLCKeats said:


> Hi all,
> 
> In short, I had a coworker today tell me that you "don't spot meter on manual mode".
> 
> ...


Considering Spot metering came out in 1960 with the Pentax Spotmatic, which was a fully manual camera, her advice must be flawed!
If my sources are correct decent automatic exposure cameras where at least 5 years behind this.

I'd treat her comments not at "you don't" but just "I don't"


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## Alexr25 (Mar 31, 2017)

While the Pentax camera was called the "Spotmatic" the metering it actually used was simple through-the-lens stop-down averaging metering. I seem to recall that the pre-production model did have spot metering but by the time it went on sale they had changed the metering back to average metering since they doubted that the average amateur would be able to make sensible use of spot metering.
So the Spotmatic was neither 'spot'  nor auto'matic'.


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## FLCKeats (Mar 31, 2017)

I thought as much. 

Thanks for everyone's replies.


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## Bebulamar (Apr 1, 2017)

You can use any meter mode with any exposure mode but when using spot metering it's best to use manual exposure mode. The reason that when you point the meter on something you may not want to make that spot as medium tone. You may want to make the spot darker or lighter than medium tone.


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## pgriz (Apr 12, 2017)

I suspect your friend either skipped a few chapters, or speed-read through the sections about how the various exposure methods worked.  I use it in manual mode when I'm "sampling" the scene to get an idea of the dynamic range I'm looking at.


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## fmw (Apr 12, 2017)

Let's go back and and take a look at the purpose for spot metering.  The benefit the photographer gains from spot metering is the measurement of dynamic range.  By having a narrow field, the photographer can measure highlights and shadows separately to have a measurement of the number of stops between the two.  He can then decide on an overall exposure setting to include as much as possible of that range or determine what parts of that range were most important.  The photographer would then have to use manual mode to set the shutter and aperture.

I suppose a photographer could try to choose a 15% gray area in the subject to spot meter with auto exposure but it would be easier and probably more accurate to use a matrix mode.   In other words, the matrix mode will evaluate the subject overall and calculate something akin to what the photographer in the first paragraph would determine with the measurement of the dynamic range.  Spot metering in auto mode would produce an exposure based on where the spot was set on the subject, not an evaluative calculation.

So I would say there is no reason at all to use spot metering with auto exposure.  There are better approaches.  Let's not forget that the photographer should operate the camera.  We don't want the camera operating the photographer.  If the photographer doesn't have the experience to use spot metering, he or she shouldn't use it at all.


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## fmw (Apr 12, 2017)

I should have noted above that there is yet another option and it is the option I prefer.  That is incident light metering.  I'm not aware of any cameras having a built in incident meter but most hand held meters have the function.  

Remember that reflected light is affected not only the brightness of the light falling on the subject but also the subject's reflectivity.  Incident metering eliminates the effect of reflectivity.  It will provide about the same exposure calculation as spot metering shadow and highlight and splitting the difference.  I find incident metering to be a little fussy but the most foolproof approach for subjects that don't move and can use it.


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## pgriz (Apr 12, 2017)

fmw said:


> So I would say there is no reason at all to use spot metering with auto exposure.



If you have the scenario of rapidly changing light, and you MUST get the primary subject correctly exposed, then using the spot meter on automatic would do the job.  For example, you're photographing someone underneath a canopy of leaves on a bright but windy day, with the sunlight filtering down through the leaves in a rapid and constantly changing pattern.  Assuming you cannot find (or don't have the time to find) a better spot, then a spot meter reading on automatic will allow you to do the best under the circumstances.


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## fmw (Apr 12, 2017)

pgriz said:


> fmw said:
> 
> 
> > So I would say there is no reason at all to use spot metering with auto exposure.
> ...



OK, if that works for you then fine.  But I think a matrix mode will work better for most photographers in those situations.


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## Dave Colangelo (May 2, 2017)

The best of the best spot meter in manual mode...


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## Braineack (May 2, 2017)

FLCKeats said:


> Her explanation was that: " [if] You ... use spot-metering on automatic ... when you meter on the 'spot' you want, the automatic exposure compensates and corrects the rest of the image, as where on manual, you have to go in and fix everything else once that one spot is correctly metered."



on the surface this isn't technically wrong. but there's a reason it's called "manual" exposure...you know, because you have to manually "fix" everything once you've metered the scene [with any metering method], if you choose to.


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