# Editing other peoples photos



## tpuma (Jan 3, 2021)

Hi everyone quick question. Someone asked me to re-edit their wedding photos because they were unhappy with what the photographer delivered to them. The original photographer isn't interested in doing the re-edits. Is it wrong to edit someone else's photos?


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## Space Face (Jan 3, 2021)

tpuma said:


> Hi everyone quick question. Someone asked me to re-edit their wedding photos because they were unhappy with what the photographer delivered to them. The original photographer isn't interested in doing the re-edits. Is it wrong to edit someone else's photos?




Morally or legally?


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## tpuma (Jan 3, 2021)

Space Face said:


> tpuma said:
> 
> 
> > Hi everyone quick question. Someone asked me to re-edit their wedding photos because they were unhappy with what the photographer delivered to them. The original photographer isn't interested in doing the re-edits. Is it wrong to edit someone else's photos?
> ...



Both I guess lol.


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## Space Face (Jan 3, 2021)

Personally morally I wouldn't give a monkeys.  If the pro ain't interested, who cares?

Legally, I suppose it depends who has the copyright ownership to allow the photos to be altered, edited, displayed or distributed.  I'm sure someone with a better legal knowledge than I will be able to give guidance and advice on that.


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## smoke665 (Jan 3, 2021)

tpuma said:


> Hi everyone quick question. Someone asked me to re-edit their wedding photos because they were unhappy with what the photographer delivered to them. The original photographer isn't interested in doing the re-edits. Is it wrong to edit someone else's photos?



The answer varies, but generally you can edit a copyrighted work legally, the difficulty arises in how that edited work is used. Regardless of the edit the original copyright is still in force, until the edit becomes such that there is no recognizable part of the original, is my understanding of how it works. Morally most frown on it. Many times people will say the photographer doesn't want to do it, when in reality the photographer would do it for a price...........that's their business. They think they can "go around" the photographer and get it for free from an unsuspecting friend. 

When I have someone contact me for editing, I say sure no problem, just give me the name and address of the photographer so I can contact them for a release and the cost for a RAW file before I quote a price for the work. Usually I don't hear from them again. If I do, then I feel a lot more comfortable knowing it's on the up and up, rather than an attempt to avoid paying the photographer, and gives me an image file to work with.


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## JBPhotog (Feb 24, 2021)

That really depends on the laws of the land, for example Canadian copyright law has a provision for Moral Rights. Moral rights include any edits to the original and if specified in the agreement/contract with the copyright holder then any editing would be a violation and subject to a claim of damages.

Now lets be real for a moment, what kind of damages are going to be incurred to the photographer in wedding photos? Typically for personal use there are virtually no grounds for damages. The application of moral rights is usually applied to the display to the public of the reedited photo.

I am surprised that the original photographer is not interested in reedits as this can be a profit centre for their business. Unless discussed with the client prior to the wedding, most photographers do minimal editing and may employ plug-ins to save on time as detailed editing can surpass the budget quickly. But if the client wants new edits as smoke665 mentioned, the correct process is to contact the original photographer and get their blessing in writing and submit an estimate to the client.


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## Rickbb (Feb 24, 2021)

Like all legal questions, it depends. 

If someone hired me, my contract said they own the images, negs, and all copyrights. If I hired a model, etc. then I owned all the images, negs and copyrights. If someone wanted to buy a print of something I did, the bill of sale clearly stated that they did not have rights to reproduce or alter the image in anyway. I had clear, plain English contracts and model releases that spelled it all out. Never had any issues.

When I did weddings, I figured they hired me to shoot the pictures and not own or control the rights to them. Their wedding, their images, they own all rights to them. IMHO anyway. I shot a few where I did them for a flat fee and handed all the film over to them and walked away. 

If anything turned out really nice I'd ask them for permission to use their image in my portfolio.

As a side note, of all the weddings I shot, none of them are still married now. One of the best wedding images I ever did, the couple didn't even last a year.


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## Trever1t (Feb 24, 2021)

Have them ask the photographer for written permission to alter the images to their taste. Done deal.


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## Original katomi (Feb 25, 2021)

I think post 5 and 9 cover my thoughts
As a photographer I would only sale, pass on my best work
If someone was not happy with my images and want them edited. 
A I would be gutted that my best was not good enough
B I know I could not have done any better
So therefore, 
Yes they could edit but with certain limitations that I would impose one being that edited or not I retained copyright and all that entails
Ask these questions
How would you feel if it was your photos, 
how would you feel if your images were edited and no one asked you


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## Grandpa Ron (Feb 25, 2021)

I think it also depends on if you are doing a favor or if you are getting paid.

If a friend wants you to crop a picture they purchased; and you do it as a favor. I wonder if you have infringed on the copyright?


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## paigew (Feb 26, 2021)

I think it would be okay to edit for printing and personal use. I would not share the new edits online.


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## Rickbb (Feb 26, 2021)

paigew said:


> I think it would be okay to edit for printing and personal use. I would not share the new edits online.



This, most fair use laws allow limited one time copy, (which an edited and printed photo would be), for personal use. Post it online or make a bunch of copies and pass them out, then you are getting out of the fair use cover and into copyright violation.


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## greybeard (Feb 28, 2021)

Rickbb said:


> Like all legal questions, it depends.
> 
> If someone hired me, my contract said they own the images, negs, and all copyrights. If I hired a model, etc. then I owned all the images, negs and copyrights. If someone wanted to buy a print of something I did, the bill of sale clearly stated that they did not have rights to reproduce or alter the image in anyway. I had clear, plain English contracts and model releases that spelled it all out. Never had any issues.
> 
> ...


Of all the weddings I've shot, only one is still married, lol


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## weepete (Feb 28, 2021)

Rickbb said:


> paigew said:
> 
> 
> > I think it would be okay to edit for printing and personal use. I would not share the new edits online.
> ...



That's an interesting point of view, though my unqualified undestanding if the American legal system is that fair use is very complicated and delt with on a case by case basis.  

I've been watching this youtube channel lately, thought it was quite informative and though the case isn't the same it deals with similar issues and talks about copyright law in the US in general:


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## Original katomi (Mar 1, 2021)

Re you tube
Question you have to ask
If it all went wrong and you were taken to court how happy would you be for a you tube vid to defend you
There is a very old saying that prob came from when we all were hairy and walked around carrying big sticks 
And lived in caves
If it don’t feel right ..RUN 
or theses days if it don’t feel right don’t do it


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## weepete (Mar 1, 2021)

Original katomi said:


> Re you tube
> Question you have to ask
> If it all went wrong and you were taken to court how happy would you be for a you tube vid to defend you
> There is a very old saying that prob came from when we all were hairy and walked around carrying big sticks
> ...



The youtube video isn't giving legal advice, nor was I suggesting that anyone should take legal advice from it and apply it to their own situation. But it is something I found interesting and discusses issues around fair use and US law.


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## Original katomi (Mar 1, 2021)

Ah I see my error
As you pro noticed in such matters I am a strong believer in CYA 
And following my gut


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