# Iraq 2003 (be advised: graphic scene)



## Efergoh (Aug 11, 2006)

These photos were taken long before I became interested in photography. Some of the photos are grainy and pixilated because they have been scanned/resized/converted/etc over the last couple of years, and yes, they all have a date stamp on them. Like I said, I was not really interested in photography at the time, and some of the pics were taken by team mates to whom I passed the camera. 

I was busy fighting a war, but trying to document it at the same time...


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## Oldfireguy (Aug 11, 2006)

Interesting shots.  It's funny but you don't think of rain in Iraq.  The hummer stuck in the mud speaks otherwise.

Glad you made it back safe.


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## ShootHoops (Aug 11, 2006)

Is that someone's separated corpse?


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## Efergoh (Aug 11, 2006)

fredcwdoc said:
			
		

> Interesting shots. It's funny but you don't think of rain in Iraq. The hummer stuck in the mud speaks otherwise.
> 
> Glad you made it back safe.


Actually, that wasn't from rain. That was a (not quite) dry river bed. Leave it to my driver to find the only stinking mud puddle in the whole damned country. We were stuck to our friggin axles.



			
				TheFinisher3 said:
			
		

> Is that someone's separated corpse?


 A fallen Iraqi. For the ones who stood and fought...and subsequently died, I have a decent amount of respect. Most of them ran or hid behind women and children. Photography (photojournalism anyway) is real. War is real. Death is real. Horrible death is real.


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## ShootHoops (Aug 11, 2006)

Oh, I see.


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## HollandHusker (Aug 12, 2006)

That's heavy **** right there.


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## magicmonkey (Aug 30, 2006)

Efergoh said:
			
		

> A fallen Iraqi. For the ones who stood and fought...and subsequently died, I have a decent amount of respect. Most of them ran or hid behind women and children. Photography (photojournalism anyway) is real. War is real. Death is real. Horrible death is real. This particular poor bastard fell to my Mk19 (the machinegun you see mounted on my HMMWV).



Photography, war and death are pretty real things, when they're not being used as semantics that is. I was just hopping through some old posts hunting for a bit of inspiration today and I must admit that I was a bit shocked to find that you had shot someone, photographed it and then posted it on the internet bragging about how 'real' you are, not exactly inspiring I must admit, I hope your fellow soldiers had more respect for the human lives they took.


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## terri (Aug 30, 2006)

magicmonkey said:
			
		

> Photography, war and death are pretty real things, when they're not being used as semantics that is. I was just hopping through some old posts hunting for a bit of inspiration today and I must admit that I was a bit shocked to find that you had shot someone, photographed it and then posted it on the internet bragging about how 'real' you are, not exactly inspiring I must admit, I hope your fellow soldiers had more respect for the human lives they took.


 I got no feeling the poster was bragging over anything. This forum is for photojournalisitc images. Please leave the editorial comments out of your posts, especially with sensitive images like these that are likely to cause emotional reactions in us all.

Regardless, some of these images are disturbing in nature and you might be better served having a "graphic" warning in your subject.


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## hobbes28 (Aug 30, 2006)

Efergoh, you have a PM.


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## magicmonkey (Aug 30, 2006)

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with the image, in fact I think it's a good photojournalistic image as it makes you look twice to see what's going on and then recoil when you click that it's only one body, very good impact. It's just that I felt the 'gung-ho' attitude to murder was very crass and frankly inhumane


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## Efergoh (Aug 30, 2006)

magicmonkey said:
			
		

> ...I was a bit shocked to find that you had shot someone, photographed it and then posted it on the internet bragging about how 'real' you are, not exactly inspiring I must admit, I hope your fellow soldiers had more respect for the human lives they took.



Well, it wasn't like I pulled the trigger, pulled over and snapped the photo. After this particular skirmish, we were in this position for a full day. After things were secure, I began taking pictures.

I must admit I'm a bit shocked that you would find what I posted as bragging. Maybe I should just shut my lips and do nothing more than post photos of fluffy puppies.



			
				magicmonkey said:
			
		

> It's just that I felt the 'gung-ho' attitude to murder was very crass and frankly inhumane



It would have been murder if he wasn't trying to end my life. It would have been murder if he wasn't armed. There is no murder in mutual combat...lots of killing, but it is not murder. 

By the way, the 'gung-ho attitude' is what got me through and got me home.

War itself is not humane. If you believe that it is, I have some very noce oceanfront property in Arizona that I would like to offer you for sale.


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## Efergoh (Aug 30, 2006)

hobbes28 said:
			
		

> Efergoh, you have a PM.



so do you.


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## magicmonkey (Aug 30, 2006)

We obviously have very different viewpoints on this and it would probably make quite an interesting conversation as long as we didn't resort to name calling, this forum isn't the place to do it though, if you want to carry on the conversation you'd be welcome to at my forums here


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## DepthAfield (Aug 31, 2006)

I didnt get the impression that Efergoh was boasting about the death of the Iraqi soldier.  His brief description of the events leading up to the making of that photograph was very matter of fact and to the point.

War (justified or not) is all about the ugly business of kill or be killed.   

The photo in question is disturbing; I wish I hadnt seen it.  On the other hand, I believe photos such as this should be widely published  Perhaps if the general public were more exposed to images showing the brutal savagery of war, they might be less inclined to allow their governments to wage it.


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## Efergoh (Aug 31, 2006)

DepthAfield said:
			
		

> Perhaps if the general public were more exposed to images showing the brutal savagery of war, they might be less inclined to allow their governments to wage it.


I concur. But, there are some instances where I think war is the solution, and not the problem. This one in particular....I don't know....It was, but perhaps now it isn't. I do think we need to step up the tempo and finish the job. 3 years plus is a lot of feet dragging.

I do not believe in showing brutality for the sake of the brute, but rather to show what the brute is capable of. Man is the most efficient killing machine on this planet. I'm not talking about the human race in general or as an abstract, but rather each one of us as an individual. We are all capable of such violence. You would be amazed at what you can do when you have no other alternative.


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## DepthAfield (Aug 31, 2006)

Efergoh said:
			
		

> But, there are some instances where I think war is the solution, and not the problem.



I agree.



			
				Efergoh said:
			
		

> I do think we need to step up the tempo and finish the job. 3 years plus is a lot of feet dragging.



Hmm  Im not sure stepping up the tempo will accomplish much in this situation.  It seems that for every two steps forward, we are knocked back three.  Is there a military solution at this point?  Tough call


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## Efergoh (Aug 31, 2006)

DepthAfield said:
			
		

> Is there a military solution at this point?  Tough call



The military solution would be to untie the military's hands and let them do the job that needs to be done. The diplomatic solution is to tell the Iraqi gov't that they need to step up to the plate and do the job themselves. I don't think that they will so long as we are willing to do it for them.

I don't think either solution is wrong, but one of those paths needs to be taken. Better than just spinning our wheels anyway.


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## Arch (Aug 31, 2006)

This is getting too political..... as an englishman i have a very different view regarding other countries government decisions...... i.e. regarding whether war is the solution or not.... 
.....but a photography forum is not the place to discuss them.... I hope you can understand this.
I thinks its good to show the images..... they are interesting..... and im not offended by them at all..... but please stay away from political opinions.


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## Alison (Aug 31, 2006)

Archangel is correct, we don't allow political discussions on TPF. You're welcome to continue the discussion via PM but I will be closing the thread.


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