# Looking to Go Pro



## iogen70 (Apr 12, 2011)

With much encouragement from friends and family I am exploring going pro. I have been to so many weddings, parties, functions that have hired a "pro" and my work usually is on par if not better. I really want to do weddings, and sport portraits (Little League, soccer, etc.) I go every year to my daughter's softball picture day and regret that I am not the one in there. These people have no passion, use all the wrong angles, you name it. But I stay quiet. Any tips as how to begin the sport photo business? I love it so much. I'm always doing it for free. I have done some pro work like product shots but that is for design projects.


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## Rocan (Apr 12, 2011)

You need a portfolio. A fat one. with your best, sharpest, quality images. You can't have enough. 

If your serious about sports, go to all of the people that would need sports images; heck, newspapers, sports magazines, theres tons. Don't expect to land a consistent job right away... start small, with maybe an image here or there. in the beginning get everything you can take; even if you land a gig shooting pictures of pencils for an article in a paper, take it. Get your name on stuff first. 

a portfolio with 50 good images is nothing compared to a portfolio of 50 images combined with a resume showing multiple instances where your images have been used and exhibited to the public; literally, on exhibit for thousands of people to see.


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## imagemaker46 (Apr 12, 2011)

Can you post some of your photos, maybe a cross section?


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## Bitter Jeweler (Apr 12, 2011)

:addpics:


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## rehab (Apr 12, 2011)

^^^ x2


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## Trever1t (Apr 12, 2011)

x3


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## orljustin (Apr 13, 2011)

iogen70 said:


> With much encouragement from friends and family I am exploring going pro.


 
Don't listen to "family and friends".  They're normally wrong.  Average people tend to be very impressed by anything that comes out of something with interchangable lenses.

What they all said ^^^.


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## iogen70 (Apr 13, 2011)

Here's a link to some of my shots. Just look in the folder called Various Photo Work. I only have a Canon PowerShot S3. So I do what I can with what I have. I have a friend who owns an EOS XS that I love to work with.
I know I have tons of room for improvement. But besides friends and family, my design clients have never been disappointed in my work. Thanks guys. I appreciate the feedback.

Flickr: iogen70's Photostream


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## bennielou (Apr 13, 2011)

I'd like to see the photos as well, as they might be as good as your family and friends say. I'm not here to discourage anyone, but you need to think of a thing or two.

At these weddings and events you take photographs at:

1. You don't have the rules that pro photogs have. For instance at weddings, during the ceremony, most times we have to stand stationary at the last pew, and we are not allowed to shoot flash or move at all. Sometimes you can get up front, but that is rare, at least here in the South. Sometimes we are not even allowed to photograph the ceremony, or shoot from outside the window of the chapel.

2. You are not under the time constraints imposed by the b&g, the church, the venue, or the wedding coordinator.

3. You are free to take the "fun shots" while the pro photog has to get the "meat" shots. The bride will want to see photos of every flower arrangement, every favor, every concievable combination of her family and her husbands family, member of the wedding party, and guest. 

4. The photos you take of formals, may be actually set up by the pro. I'm not sure about that one.

5. You get to sit and rest a for a bit. Pros do not. It's 8 hours of running, being told to hurryhurryhurry, and (nothing against you because I don't know how you roll) dealing with guests who jump in the aisles thus blocking our only view to the "kiss shot", as we are not allowed to move. Guests practically knocking us over to get "the shot" sometimes with their cell cams.

Again, I am not here to discourage you, but perhaps you should think of actually working a wedding or event with a "pro" a few times first. First of all, you can learn a tip or two about dealing with schedules, timelines, and rules, and secondly you might get a different take of what the paid photog actually has to do, be responsible for, and deal with.

Best to you in all endevors.


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## bennielou (Apr 13, 2011)

Hi Chris,
I went to your link.  I chose to go to Matos Wedding.  You do a good job outdoors, but seem to struggle indoors, or with reduced light.  On these shots, there is more than acceptable noise.  What type of flash are you using?


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## Trever1t (Apr 13, 2011)

Well I briefed over your flickr as well and a quick first impression is that you have a eye for it. Using a point and shoot isn't going to allow you the freedom to really express your talent  Time to upgrade.


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## gsgary (Apr 13, 2011)

How many of the shot did you adjust shutter speed and aperture ? or did you let the camera do it all, because you will have a very big learning curve when you get a DSLR


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## iogen70 (Apr 13, 2011)

Thanks for the feedback. Yes shooting with the P&S S3 is difficult. It has quasi DSLR settings (Manual, Program, etc.) however it has a slow shutter, the CMOS is not the best and it has thousands of shots on it.

Regarding the flash.....just the built in. Not very good in dark conditions. I change the curtain to first and last as needed, but it still produces the noise above 200ISO. And in these situations I need to go 400 or 800. So yes I need an upgrade big time.

I am a Canon fan. My first SLR was a AE1 35mm. I am looking at mid-range EOS' such as the Ti with 3 lenses a variety of filters, and a speedlight with remote set up.

Thanks again.
Chris


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## iogen70 (Apr 13, 2011)

GSGary: Most of the shots I composed, changed shutter/f stop to get what I wanted. Candids were mostly AE.


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## imagemaker46 (Apr 13, 2011)

As far as jumping into the pro world, I'd have to say don't quit your day job right away. After looking though the photos you have posted, they really aren't much more than the happy snaps. You did mention your limitations with the camera you use, so that does a problem right off the get go.  Before going pro you'll need to upgrade your gear and start learning how to really use it.  As far as shooting sports, walk before you start to run, shooting weddings and shooting sports are not the same at all.  If you have your heart set on making a living as a photographer, good luck, but understand that it is a tough business to start and make a living at.


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## bennielou (Apr 13, 2011)

imagemaker46 said:


> As far as jumping into the pro world, I'd have to say don't quit your day job right away. After looking though the photos you have posted, they really aren't much more than the happy snaps. You did mention your limitations with the camera you use, so that does a problem right off the get go. Before going pro you'll need to upgrade your gear and start learning how to really use it. As far as shooting sports, walk before you start to run, shooting weddings and shooting sports are not the same at all. If you have your heart set on making a living as a photographer, good luck, but understand that it is a tough business to start and make a living at.


 

I disagree.  You have a decent eye.  You just don't have the rest of it.  But a good eye is where you start.


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## imagemaker46 (Apr 13, 2011)

So bennielou what you are saying that he is ready to jump into the pro business as soon as he buys a new camera? This based on an average set of wedding photos shot with a point and shoot on a flickr site.


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## bennielou (Apr 13, 2011)

No, not at all.  I'm saying he has a good eye, which trumps cameras.  You can't buy an eye.


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## bennielou (Apr 13, 2011)

And I have to add...... Imagemaker, you just need to get over it. You need to make your own work better. If you sit around worrying about other people you should probably hang up you cameras. And while I'm at it, you need to pay your taxes.  You can't tell anyone how to do things right if you aren't. JMO.

I would prefer not to hear another damn bit of advice about being a "Pro" until you are a pro.  Until you pay your taxes, you are not a pro.  You are a wannabe.  So quit telling people how to do things.  It's totally irritating.


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## tirediron (Apr 13, 2011)

The first decision to make is are you talking about becoming a full-time pro, earning your living with your camera, or a part-time pro, making enough money to buy the odd new lens or your wife a nicer birthday present?  If the former, that indeed is a VERY tough racket to break into, and will require a huge investment in equipment and every waking hour spent building your portfolio and knocking on doors.  At the end of year one, chances are you'll clear just about enough to buy an Egg McMuffin and a *small* cup of coffee.  

If you're talking about a part-time pro, that's a whole different ballgame.  Buy a couple prosumer DSLRs, and some decent lenses, total investment ~$7500 give or take.  Advertise on Craig's List, and your local shopping papers.  Apply with full time pros for second-shooter positions and build your portfolio.  Eventually you may evolve to the point where you're making good money at it.

Remember that becoming a pro has very little to do with your ability as a photographer.  It has everything to do with your business knowledge and your abiltiy to market yourself and your talent.


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## imagemaker46 (Apr 13, 2011)

Been working as professional over 35 years, paying my business taxes, with my registered business. I don't sit around worring about people on this forum, I don't know these people any better than you do, I'm just looking a photos, and reading comments I agree and disagree with. I'm editing photos from my last shoot, and while waiting for the next bunch to load, I read and write a little.  

Everyone can make their work better, some have to work a lot harder at.


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## bennielou (Apr 13, 2011)

Imagemaker, 35 years or not YOU DO NOT PAY YOUR STATE LOCAL TAXES. I looked it up. You do not. You also talk **** about everyone who wants to go pro. STOP. Think about why YOU say the things to do. If you don't love what you do.............don't do it.

You don't sit around worrying over people? Really? That's all you do! You don't post up your work, you just tell new people there isn't room for them. Stop already.

You are so concerned that some newbie with a rebel is going to come in and steal your clients.  If you are doing your job right, you don't need to worry about that.  I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm just trying to get you to see.


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## AmazingGrace0385 (Apr 13, 2011)

I agree you have a good eye and it sounds like you have a good grasp of the technical stuff. I have the Rebel t1i and it is a great starter DSLR. I have shot around with my dad's 5D Mark II and boy is that a nice camera! One of these days...


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## Bitter Jeweler (Apr 13, 2011)

bennielou said:


> Imagemaker, 35 years or not YOU DO NOT PAY YOUR STATE LOCAL TAXES. I looked it up. You do not.




Oh noe she di'nt!








:lmao:


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## bennielou (Apr 13, 2011)

Oh yes she don't! For all the mouth, she's Not being a pro. I don't want to call anyone out, so I will most likely delete this in an hour or two, but I just want to let her know that she isn't fooling anyone with all the talk.


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## imagemaker46 (Apr 13, 2011)

Bennilou I'm CANADIAN. I don't pay US taxes, never have, never will. If you had checked my website or perhaps looked at my profile you will have noticed that it does say CANADA. I filed my income taxes two weeks ago. Maybe you should spend less time skimming over the threads and sneaking around spying on what other people do with their taxes you'd have less to complain about.

www.scottgrant.photoshelter.com

Go to my "about" page before you look at anything, and then tell me I don't know how to shoot, or that I don't know what I'm talking about when I critique a photo. 

Apology accepted.

Oh ya, I'm male.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Apr 13, 2011)

Wait! You're a girl?


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## imagemaker46 (Apr 13, 2011)

So some would believe.


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## ghache (Apr 13, 2011)

bennielou said:


> Imagemaker, 35 years or not YOU DO NOT PAY YOUR STATE LOCAL TAXES. I looked it up. You do not. *You also talk **** about everyone who wants to go pro. STOP. Think about why YOU say the things to do. If you don't love what you do.............don't do it.
> 
> You don't sit around worrying over people? Really? That's all you do! You don't post up your work, you just tell new people there isn't room for them. Stop already.
> 
> You are so concerned that some newbie with a rebel is going to come in and steal your clients. If you are doing your job right, you don't need to worry about that. I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm just trying to get you to see.*


*
*
80% of your post is right HAHAH


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## imagemaker46 (Apr 13, 2011)

Geez ghache you haven't been bashing me in a while. While bennilou has jumped to her conclusion about who I am as a photographer, she has based all of her rant on incorrect information and therefore remnders it invalid. While you have just tossed in your 2 cents to simply add another comment, which is fine.  Just wondering, what 20% is wrong?   She's pretty much 100% correct, well she's correct about me not paying my US taxes from Canada, (I'm pretty sure you don't pay any US taxes from Canada or Quebec either) If someone is thinking about going pro and they aren't ready, I will tell them, so she was correct there.  I don't sit around worrying about about people on this forum, I do worry about people in my "real world" so right and wrong there. I do post my work, so wrong there, I'm not concerned about newbies and their rebels, so wrong there.  She's not trying to be a jerk, just trying to get me to see, I suppose that's a 50%. 

Well according to my numbers she would be closer to 20% correct, maybe that's what you meant.


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## bennielou (Apr 13, 2011)

Remember Image, I used to be on your side.  "Rant" is a bit extreme.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Apr 13, 2011)

C'mon, let's all go get a beer!


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## ghache (Apr 13, 2011)

imagemaker46 said:


> Geez ghache you haven't been bashing me in a while. While bennilou has jumped to her conclusion about who I am as a photographer, she has based all of her rant on incorrect information and therefore remnders it invalid. While you have just tossed in your 2 cents to simply add another comment, which is fine. Just wondering, what 20% is wrong? She's pretty much 100% correct, well she's correct about me not paying my US taxes from Canada, (I'm pretty sure you don't pay any US taxes from Canada or Quebec either) If someone is thinking about going pro and they aren't ready, I will tell them, so she was correct there. I don't sit around worrying about about people on this forum, I do worry about people in my "real world" so right and wrong there. I do post my work, so wrong there, I'm not concerned about newbies and their rebels, so wrong there. She's not trying to be a jerk, just trying to get me to see, I suppose that's a 50%.
> 
> Well according to my numbers she would be closer to 20% correct, maybe that's what you meant.




:scratch::scratch:


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## Overread (Apr 13, 2011)

:cheers:



Bitter Jeweler said:


> C'mon, let's all go get a beer!


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## bennielou (Apr 13, 2011)

Beer.


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## imagemaker46 (Apr 13, 2011)

I didn't know we had to take sides, but I'll have a beer and leave it at that.


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## o hey tyler (Apr 13, 2011)

Well, this thread was pretty funny. Thanks guys. :thumbup:


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## Bitter Jeweler (Apr 13, 2011)

:cheers:



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## bazooka (Apr 13, 2011)

pie.


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## iogen70 (Apr 13, 2011)

Wow. And I just asked a question. Holy cow. Thanks for the "eye" compliment. I am a graphic designer. So I am required to have one. LOL
I never said I didn't have improvements to make. And the equipment limits me terribly. As I said, I started with a Canon AE1 35mm SLR 30 years ago.
You know, the old Kodachrome develop yourself in a darkroom???? I thank those who are honest (good, bad or indifferent) for answering. I am not thinking I can go full time but I think I could manage the "support my hobby" pro. I am adept at advertising/marketing and running a business. I'm a freelancer by choice and work VERY hard to stay that way. So I understand what you are talking about. Perhaps I will just stick to my point and shoot seeming that there are so many people in the business. But like design there are thousands of "designers" but not all are good designers. I'll join you in the beer-fest. Maybe my work will look better through beer goggles to some.


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## iogen70 (Apr 13, 2011)

Oh, and I pay my income taxes via my LLC every year. So I should be good, right?


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## Bitter Jeweler (Apr 13, 2011)

You should *definitely* buy yourself a better camera. With your design skills, you already know half the equation!


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## c.cloudwalker (Apr 13, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> You should *definitely* buy yourself a better camera. With your design skills, you already know half the equation!


 
And with your attitude, you will survive this hell hole and learn all that is needed. :lmao:


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## iogen70 (Apr 13, 2011)

Thanks Jeweler. I'm getting there...my money tree still has spring buds on it. Oh, and you're from Cleveland? Let's all get that beer at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame!


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## bennielou (Apr 13, 2011)

Cloud, I used to love you as a friend. Remember you called me when I was being a dick to warn me not to be a dick. Now  you are being a dick so stop it. You are being everything you told me not to be.

But getting back to the OP.....Again.

Your shots are fine. However for low light stuff you do need a better camera or some kick butt software.

It's now beer thirty. Somewhere. Cheers!


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## c.cloudwalker (Apr 13, 2011)

From one Chris to another, I find your sig hilarious. Don't know if you had it from the start or only added it later after seeing this thread skid sideways and upside down but it is deserving of the best sig award.


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## c.cloudwalker (Apr 13, 2011)

bennielou said:


> Cloud, I used to love you as a friend. Remember you called me when I was being a dick to warn me not to be a dick. Now  you are being a dick so stop it. You are being everything you told me not to be.


 
????????????

What am I being a dick about? This place is a hell hole. Sometimes, I think a war zone was easier to deal with and I would rather be in a foxhole...


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## bentcountershaft (Apr 13, 2011)

Beer was mentioned.  I'll have a pint of Stella, please.


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## Stradawhovious (Apr 13, 2011)

bentcountershaft said:


> Beer was mentioned. I'll have a pint of Stella, please.




I'm now waiting for someone to come along and tell you why you're a horrible person for drinking Stella instead of Labatt Blue.

Shouldn't take long......


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## iogen70 (Apr 13, 2011)

Cloudwalker: If you are speaking to me (???) about the sig, I had it since I signed up a whole four days ago. I was going to put in my sig: "Pissing in your Wheaties since 1970" but I decided against it. ;-)


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## c.cloudwalker (Apr 13, 2011)

iogen70 said:


> Cloudwalker: If you are speaking to me (???) about the sig, I had it since I signed up a whole four days ago. I was going to put in my sig: "Pissing in your Wheaties since 1970" but I decided against it. ;-)


 
:lmao:

Keep up the sense of humor and you'll do just fine here. Looking forward to helping you out if I can. And welcome to the place.


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## bennielou (Apr 13, 2011)

No my dear. You are being a dick. Stop.  Yes this place is a hell hole full of idiots.  Don't be one of them.  If you hate this place, leave.   That is what you told me.


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## loopy (Apr 13, 2011)

iogen70 said:


> I'm a freelancer by choice and work VERY hard to stay that way. So I understand what you are talking about. Perhaps I will just stick to my point and shoot seeming that there are so many people in the business. But like design there are thousands of "designers" but not all are good designers. I'll join you in the beer-fest. Maybe my work will look better through beer goggles to some.



Maybe that could be your niche - the industry is saturated, so why not integrate your graphic design skills to offer something unique?

I think you have an eye, and you're already in business so your already ahead of most. You'll want to upgrade your gear eventually, but don't let discourage you, the camera doesn't make the photographer. I've seen photographers with top gear produce so-so images, and photographers with old point&shoots that create beautiful art. I even won a photography contest with an image I took with my first digital P&S. It's only a tool.


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## fones57 (Apr 13, 2011)

the best advice i can give you, if you want to have a million bucks  been a photographer ? start off by having 2 million bucks.
sorry dude ,but its the truth.but its great fun.you,ll have great friends wanting pics for nothing but start to charge then they dont want to know.


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