# Help with banquet shoot



## pictureme (Oct 26, 2008)

If anyone could me out i would apreciate it alot ...;-):thumbup:

I have my sisters wedding next weekend and i have been taking clasess for photagraphy for the past 2 months and i have already bought my camera dlsr D300 NIKON and some lense.I really want to get all my settings on the camera and flash right and use the right lense and flash .Im a beginner so i really dont know much yet but i really want to make this night great for my sisters wedding pictures.Please give me the best advice,help and what exactly i would need to complete that night with great pictures .This is what i have in my collection

Nikon D300 camera

Lense
Nikon...
NIKON SPEEDLIGHT SB-800
AF-S NIKKOR 70-300MM
AF-S NIKKOR 24-120MM
AF MICRO NIKKOR 60MM
AF NIKKOR 50MM 1.8D 
SIGMA 10-20MM WIDE LENSE
1 tripod


Please help..


Thank you so much


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## SilverGlow (Oct 26, 2008)

Are you going to be the primary photographer? I hope not. You're not ready. Your not even close to being ready. If you love your sister, and care about her, don'f FOBAR her special day. To do her wedding is for your ego to write checks your skills cannot cover.

At the bear minimum, you should at the very least have assisted 3-5 weddings, and have mastered flashing at least a year ago. The super duper D300 is not going to help you because your skills are not there yet.

Weddings are not a place to practice. Yes, you have to start someplace, but a real wedding is not that place. See about assisting a pro or amatuer that has shot many weddings first.

Don't be a fool...it's her most important day, and there are no 2nd chances.


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## pictureme (Oct 27, 2008)

Thanks for your advice... but i think you got me all wrong here ...All i need is the best advice on how to get teh right settings .I have capture alot of flicks for the past 3 years with nikon d60 d80 etc.... im not new to taking pictures .All im asking is for settings and what would you recomend .I dont need any bashing etc... if you could help ill apreciate it ...Im not here to sale my sisters wedding pictures or trying to be a pro .....Its a small wedding,nothing big .Thank you


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## Flash Harry (Oct 27, 2008)

there are no "right" settings, if you know what your'e doing then you'll know what to adjust and when. H


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## pm63 (Oct 27, 2008)

pictureme said:


> Thanks for your advice... but i think you got me all wrong here ...All i need is the best advice on how to get teh right settings .I have capture alot of flicks for the *past 3 years with nikon d60*



Wow... 

Anyway, if you've been shooting for three years with Nikon DSLR's and have that much experience behind you, why is the D300 confusing you? I don't understand why you talk of it like a completely different camera system which takes completely different settings to get great shots with. Sure, it's a big step up from the D60/80 and doesn't hold your hand as much but in principle it's still a Nikon DSLR and with 3 years under your belt in this camera system, I don't see the problem. You really should know this stuff after this many years.



> Its a small wedding,nothing big



It's still a _wedding_, and your sisters for Christs sake! Do her a favour and hire out a professional primary shooter that you've seen the work of and like the portfolio, and take pics yourself as a backup. That way, if you screw up, at least you'll have some acceptable quality shots from such a special event.


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## chrisburke (Oct 27, 2008)

yea, i will chime in here as someone who does a lot of weddings.

first of all, in checking some of your other posts, you deffinatley dont know enough about photography to do a wedding.. just 2 weeks ago you posted a message saying you were a photography NEWBIE..(http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=140813)  you also ask questions like "will the nifty 50 fit on my camera" if you dont know that a nikkor lens fits on any nikon, your NOT ready to do a wedding.  and in numerous threads you continue to ask the question of "what settings should I use" RUN AWAY, dont do this wedding, your not ready.

you yourself have said something terrible which would make me run the other way "i have taken a lot of FLICKS over the past 3 years" my friend, FLICKS and snapshots are NOT ACCECPTABLE at a wedding... people pay thousands of dollars to have quality photos taken at weddings... just because you have a d300 doesnt mean your going to be able to do this...

you've also said "i'm a beginner" in your first post.. and a beginner should NOT be doing a wedding, whether its for a sister or not... its still the most important day of her life, and if the pictures end up being crap, it can kill yours and her relationship unfortunatley.

In your second post you say "All i need is the best advice on how to get teh right settings" pretty sure this is the basics, and if you know anything about photography, which you state that you do, you would know that we cannot tell you what settings to use, because we dont know what is going on, we dont know the lighting or anything like that...  ALSO if you know photography, as you say you do, you would know your settings,  and if you dont know how to set your camera, your NOT ready to shoot a wedding.

i would not do the wedding if I was you, its easy to say "well then my sister wont have any pictures" but if you didnt own a camera, what would she do for photos?  I shoot weddings all the time, and to be honest, I dont think I would shoot my sisters wedding, its her special day, and as her sibling, you should be sharing that day with her, not from behind a camera.

do you have a flickr account, i'd like to see your pics that make you think your ready to do a wedding


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## benhasajeep (Oct 27, 2008)

Instead of bashing you and saying don't do it. I will lend a little advice. It is more than likely too late for your sister to get a full time pro to do the wedding (and cost may be an issue, that is a very big point for alot of people who don't hire pros for their weddings). So everyone saying don't do it, is really giving bad advice. Just a couple good pictures is better than no pictures at all!!! Truth is you are most likely very unprepared, but again, things have already been set into motion that can't be stopped.

First advice is don't play with the settings on the camera. Use auto mode (camera and flash). The only exception is maybe use aperature priority mode if you feel you have enough understanding of its use. If you really don't have a full grasp of it. Use full auto, you will get alot more pictures that come out. Nikon has worked a long time to perfect auto settings and such for their camera's. Although they are not perfect in reality, they will be better than just plain old experimenting / fumbling with the dials.

Second advice is to practice with your flash right now in your house using bounce techniques. Pictures from straight on flash will look very dissapointing.

3rd don't expect to be able to take pictures like a pro. Obviously this is not going to happen. It takes alot of practice! The biggest help you can do right now with the camera in full auto is to learn your flash as best as possible. You will get better pictures in full auto and basic flash techniques other than taking straight head on flash shots!

4th - if you can go to the facilities where you will be taking pics. Most likely if its a church and function hall it should be empty some time during the day. Have a couple people go with you and practice taking pictures of them. Don't be embarassed, they can only say no, or ask you to leave (church / hall). But I bet knowing your sister has rented the facility you can get in. If the reception is at a hall, don't turn all the lights on. Usueally the lights are set lower for more intimate settings. You want to simulate the actual settings as much as possible.

5th - Go practice some more. If you have to, get other volunteers to help you out as practice models. Seriously do this as much as you can spend time on. If you can, take a laptop and view pictures right there on a big screen.

6th - Go practice even more. Lighting is very important (learing to use flash other than just straight on). Like I said earlier, learn to use the bounce function. Again, don't be embarassed by asking to practice. If you can't learn to ask others for practice, your going to have problems getting people to cooperate when your doing it for real!!!

7th - rehersal and rehersal dinner. Use this time to get in practice!!! Treat it as the real thing.

8th - make 2 check lists for the wedding day. First one for equipment. What you want to take. Have check offs for empty memory cards, fully charged batteries. Spare batteries. Second list is to make a play book of pictures you want. Actually print out pictures you want to emulate when your taking the pictures (ceremony). Put them in a convient order (bride and groom pics, then wedding party pics, bride/ groom / parents, etc...). Keep it in order, so your not wasting time and asking people to come in and leave the scene all the time. And use them as a play book. You will have so much going on, you will forget to take shots you wanted to take!! So the play book is a way of remembering.

9th - Don't go below 50 mm or so on a lens when taking pics close to people (close ups with wide angle lenses distort things like noses when used close in). The sweet range for d300 will be in the 50-70 mm range for more flattering type images (portrait type pics). If you are taking pics during the ceremony do not get too close into the procedings. Use your bigger lens so you can stand back some. And if your taking pics during the ceremony, propper dress.  Careful of where your going.  You don't want to trip and fall, and make an unplesant scene (big no no).

10 - go practice some more. :mrgreen:

12 - at the reception focus on the bride and groom (its their day). Add some shots of wedding party, and parents. But mostly of the happy couple. Another thing is don't forget to keep yourself hydrated with water or soda. You may be so into the picture taking you will forget.

Don't get dissapointed if you don't get all your pictures to come out the way you were hoping (or even 1/2 or 1/4). It takes practice / experience!

I hope things go well for you and your sister.


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## KhronoS (Oct 28, 2008)

Why are you people so "wedding beginner" frezny.
I mean give the kid a break. Have any of you considered that maybe his sister insisted so that he shoots the wedding?

Every thread i see when someone asks for some tips and tricks to shoot a wedding you jump around yelling "You are not ready" "You are going to ruin the wedding", and so on. 
STOP IT!!!

Everyone it trying to look like an expert you need to shoot 5-6-20 weddings to be ready, bull****. I have a friend which is an amazing graphics designer, he bought a camera, he played with it a few months, and was asked to go to a wedding, the photos were amazing, i could compare easily with some local experts that were shooting wedding for years.

So stop discouraging people, let them try on their own skin. They didn't asked you if they are ready, they only asked you for some help, and the forum it's about this.

The only thing you master over the time on a wedding is making quick adjustments to flash, and know how to pose the bride and groom, and be aware of your environment to take full advantage of it.

Some advice from is, if you already know how to take photos with your camera, and know how shutter speed works and aperture, try playing some more with the flash, see what is better and what's not. Take the control of the situation and don't be nervous.

Good luck and have fun.


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## JerryPH (Oct 28, 2008)

pictureme said:


> Thanks for your advice... but i think you got me all wrong here ...



Not likely... but do a search here, you will see what he meant and you may get an answer to your needs, but I kinda doubt it.


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## JerryPH (Oct 28, 2008)

KhronoS said:


> Why are you people so "wedding beginner" frezny.
> 
> I mean give the kid a break. Have any of you considered that maybe his sister insisted so that he shoots the wedding?
> 
> ...



No.  

I think that the needs of the bride and groom on a day that shall NEVER be repeated and is of such MAJOR IMPORTANCE that it is MORE important than any beginner's need to play "pro photographer".  This is not the time or place to learn. There is too much at stake, too much that will be lost and the only people that are doing the loosing are the ones that DO NOT deserve it.

As a second photographer, sure do what you want, if you are uncle bob, go right ahead, click away.... but for God's sake, holding a camera part time, not even knowing how a flash works, much less how lighting or his camera works is just not someone that should be doing a wedding as the main photographer, the bride and groom deserve better.  Anyone that cares about the couple's day and not their own ego will be fast to politely refuse to do it and suggest that they hire a seasoned professional... they deserve nothing less.

You "have a friend" that took amazing pics... compared to whom?  A seasoned professional?  The 13-year old down the street?  Based on that comment I would say your levels of acceptance are likely far lower than what the bride and groom deserved.  I hope they weren't made to pay for it on top of that insult.

I'll stop here, but I think the point has been made.


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## Moglex (Oct 28, 2008)

KhronoS said:


> Why are you people so "wedding beginner" frezny.



Because they know the heartbreak that could follow from having the job botched.

Anyone who is competent to shoot a wedding will *not* need to come here to ask questions of a photographic nature.

To shoot 'once only' events you need to have the expertise to get it right *every single time*.

You should certainly have shot several weddings as 'backup' photographer and gained 100% confidence in your ability to produce an at least acceptable set of shots.

Someone who cannot spell lens and makes a comment such as: "I really want to get all my settings on the camera and flash right and use the right lense and flash" implying that he doesn't already know *exactly* how to set the camera and select the lens, is heading for a major fall.

Certainly it's possible for someone with inadequate experience to get lucky and get a great set of shots but you need to be able to do it *every time*.

Encouraging some with so little experience to go ahead as prime photographer on a wedding shoot is the photographic equivalent of encouraging someone to try and fly a real aeroplane on the basis that they can do a circuit on the Microsoft flight simulator!


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## KhronoS (Oct 28, 2008)

JerryPH said:


> No.
> 
> I think that the needs of the bride and groom on a day that shall NEVER be repeated and is of such MAJOR IMPORTANCE that it is MORE important than any beginner's need to play "pro photographer".  This is not the time or place to learn. There is too much at stake, too much that will be lost and the only people that are doing the loosing are the ones that DO NOT deserve it.
> 
> ...



As i stated... as long as the bride and groom wants it then that is that. They deserve what  they choose.
I was trying to point out the aggressive stance taken by most of professional photographers.
For example after i said what i said you cannot perceive such an abnormal thing: "a dude with a month experience taking cool photos", and you immediately turn around and say that maybe it's something wrong with me that i can't have a critic eye or something, or went even more to the man i compared to and saying that it's "a 13 year old" or an incapable photographer which i have stated that he shoots for more years then my age.

So PLEASE tell me why all reluctance against beginners who in some part are forced to shoot this kind of events?

With one thing i agree with you though, the bride and groom must be aware of the exact level of you knowledge and capabilities, an that they should be made aware of the possibility of investing an higher amount of money for hiring a professional photographer.

Oh and so that you know not everyone can afford a PRO. In every industry its a level of performance for the price. That's why there is Ferrari, Porsche, BMW, Opel, Renault,.... , pro photographers and "not that pro" photographers. Everything for a level of investment.

P.S. Don't act like they (beginners) are taking the bread from under your nose.
In photography creativity it's way more important than experience. Maybe that's why some people take cool shots with little experience.


I deeply apologize if you felt insulted,  but i feel insulted by people who instead of wasting a little time helping they are wasting time for throwing insults.

Ohh and Jerry it's not about you, you were very helpful in a lot of threads. I only hope you understand what i am trying to say.


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## KhronoS (Oct 28, 2008)

Moglex said:


> Certainly it's possible for someone with inadequate experience to get lucky and get a great set of shots but you need to be able to do it *every time*.



Yes you are right about it. But even that, is it hard to explain gently?

I noticed in a lot of threads that mean attitude. That is what bothers me. I even made a thread where i had some problems at a wedding where i was a *BACKUP* photographer, and still i was treated with hostility 


Lastly i want to say that i am not defending people who obviously don't know very much about photography. I am defending people who try to learn and the sole purpose of this forum, from which i have learned a lot.


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## Moglex (Oct 28, 2008)

KhronoS said:


> I noticed in a lot of threads that mean attitude. That is what bothers me. I even made a thread where i had some problems at a wedding where i was a *BACKUP* photographer, and still i was treated with hostility



I know what you mean (which is why I didn't actually join in suggesting to this poster that he might reconsider).

Some people seem to take a delight in knocking people back. Even if they are correct in their assements their approach can be reprehensible. It isn't just photography where this happens, of course, and thank goodness there are plenty of people around who will respond in a friendly and helpful manner.

Unfortunately I think the friendly/helpful people are sometimes intimidated if the bullies (or those just having an off day) get in first.


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## chrisburke (Oct 28, 2008)

my guess for Ben and all the others who are saying do this wedding is that you've never had a "professional photographer" screw up important pictures for you.

Yes, it is true, sometimes beginners get luckly.. thats a given.  But when you come here and tell me that you don't even know how to use the settings on your camera, and that your doing a wedding NEXT WEEKEND, to me, thats stupid, and I dont see why you guys cant agree to this... the OP straight out admitted that he doesnt know what settings to use.. someone going into a wedding needs to know these settings, otherwise, they will fumble around and loose lots of pictures.. its a given.

someone made of the point of "maybe his sister requested he did it" obviously she did.. and the problem with this is, people see a fancy camera, and they assume you know what your doing.  9 times out of 10 people go out and get those fancy cameras for the simple fact that they want to look professional, when in fact they arent, and that image is put on them, and people then do foolish things like say "can you shoot my wedding" then they get crappy pics and say "but you look like you know what your doing"  I can look like I know what I'm doing at anything, man I'm good at "faking it till i make it" but I dont think weddings are the place to do that... theres o much at stake... you cant go back in a week after looking at your photos and saying "oh, btw, I suck, can we try those pictures again" it doesnt work that way with weddings... even with portrait photography you cant do that... its just not right.

the reason why we are so against noobs doing weddings AS THE MAIN PHOTOGRAPHER is because they are noobs... if you cant look at a situation and know what you should be doing with your camera, you shouldnt be shooting... if you have to shoot on AUTO mode you shouldnt be shooting, because 9 times out of 10, thats going to RUIN a photo.

I can't tell you how many weddings I shot as the second photographer before I finally got the courage to do one as the main guy... I was just far to afraid to piss of a bride and groom... and even when I felt  I was ready to be the main guy, I STILL brought a photographer friend along to be my second, JUST IN CASE...  

Anyways, I think this thread is rediclous, I cant believe there are people encouraging thing type of work... half assed, "take the pictures for me" type of photography.. its sad, and you should be ashamed of yourself for thinking its ok.  yes wedding photography is expensive, but it can be decently priced to.. where I live, wedding packages run from around 500-5000 dollars, and you know what the 500 is good, you just dont get pictures of the whole day... I'm sure most photographers have packages where you can "just have the ceremony" or whatever,


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## KhronoS (Oct 28, 2008)

chrisburke said:


> Anyways, I think this thread is rediclous, I cant believe there are people encouraging thing type of work... half assed, "take the pictures for me" type of photography.. its sad, and you should be ashamed of yourself for thinking its ok.  yes wedding photography is expensive, but it can be decently priced to.. where I live, wedding packages run from around 500-5000 dollars, and you know what the 500 is good, you just dont get pictures of the whole day... I'm sure most photographers have packages where you can "just have the ceremony" or whatever,



And i agree with you.

I wasn't defending him, i was defending the whole concept of helping. Consider this as the last drop from me and i wanted to take attitude against it.

As a side note, here in Romania, the prices for photography only starts at 150$ ) Photo + video starts at 250-300$


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## manaheim (Oct 28, 2008)

KhronoS said:


> P.S. Don't act like they (beginners) are taking the bread from under your nose.
> In photography creativity it's way more important than experience. Maybe that's why some people take cool shots with little experience.


 
Oof.  That combined with a whole assload of luck. 

I've seen a lot of these threads, and I agree that we tend to jump all over people way too much, but I also agree that weddings aren't something that should be toyed with lightly.

Given that in_ most_ of these cases it appears that the photog in question is in a situation where the person asking them to do this really either cannot afford a "pro", or is somehow or another in a situaition where "this is just going to happen no matter what we say", I think very much that the right approach from the rest of us would be similar to what ben has done...

1. Strong word of caution.
2. Good solid advice to be used when you have to go do the shoot anyway.

That being said, statements like "creativity is more important than experience" isn't really going to do anyone any good.  It's a highly subjective statement, and somewhat suspect.  Another example is something like "It's the photographer, not the camera!", or "my buddy the graphic designer did an amazing job with his first wedding!"

I know folks doing this are probably trying to bolster the OP's confidence, and that's nice of you, but OP should go into this with no misconceptions.  What they're going to do is very important and quite challenging.  Filling them with platitudes is more likely to make them lackadaisical than anything.


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## KhronoS (Oct 28, 2008)

manaheim said:


> That being said, statements like "creativity is more important than experience" isn't really going to do anyone any good.  It's a highly subjective statement, and somewhat suspect.  Another example is something like "It's the photographer, not the camera!", or "my buddy the graphic designer did an amazing job with his first wedding!"



True, it's not doing any good. But the most part is creativity and usually you need practice to gain creativity, but not always. 

The part with the friend, is true like hell, and i can only explain that he has creativity. I will talk to him to post  some photos and you will see that those cannot be photos from a beginner with a couple of months as photography experience.

Anyway everyone has different ideas about how photography can evolve in someone, but bottom line is that people should be more forgiving and less aggressive.

I apologize in front of the people who felt insulted by this, and maybe didn't understand what  i meant by this, but this conversation starts to be time and energy consuming for me and for rest of you without any productivity.


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## manaheim (Oct 28, 2008)

^^^ I don't deny your buddy was successful with his pictures in that way.  I have a friend who is a GD who always annoys me with his amazing compositions in photography.  There is more to that story, but it doesn't help OP so I'll keep my yap shut.


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## benhasajeep (Oct 28, 2008)

First off I read their question wrong.  The question was based on the Banquet not ceremony.  So maybe we all jumped off the edge a little too quick and assumed he was doing the ceremony too.

Next, I think a few individuals are forgeting one inportant factor that is affecting most everyone right now.  And thats economy.  The fact is maybe the sister cannot afford a pro.  Or maybe in this case just a pro for ceremony and not reception?  My opinion was either they could not afford one, or could not schedule one.  What upsets me is people saying don't do it.  You will take horriable pictures and your sister will be upset.  The fact is, would it be better to have no pictures at all, or at least a few picutures? I would wager everyone would pick having at least a couple vs. none!!  Especially since everyone agrees its such an important event in ones life.

I also take note that someone mentioned above.  That a pro needs to be able to take good pictures every time.  I don't know anyone that takes a good picture every time!!  And if I run into someone that claims they do.  I will politely excuse myself from the area, as I have a negative opinion of people that make such statements and do not wish to be around them.


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## chrisburke (Oct 28, 2008)

^^^ way to go, you said the same thing the other people are in favor of this said.. congrats on being an echo.... waste of time


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## DavidSR (Oct 28, 2008)

chrisburke said:


> ^^^ way to go, you said the same thing the other people are in favor of this said.. congrats on being an echo.... waste of time


 
Wow! Someones a little cranky!


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## benhasajeep (Oct 28, 2008)

I am sorry I FORCED you to read my comments.  And I FORCED you to waste your time responding.  

The fact still remains the same.  Anyone would want a couple good pictures over *NO* pictures!!!  You keep forcing "YOUR" opinion that a "REAL" pro needs to be hired to "SAVE" the day.  When you have no clue if they can even afford $100 to spend.  Or even if a "Pro" is available on such short notice!

I never defended nor suggested the person in question should do this on a continuing basis.  The facts are that the ball is set in motion and damage control needs to be done.  Trying to make the most of a bad situation!  

And right now the only choice is for a complete amature to do the pictures!  How can an amature taking pictures of a reception be worse than no pictures at all???  Going by your logic his sister will be happier with no pictures at all, then maybe having snapshot grade pictures!

And for information.  I spent 4 months looking for a "pro" for my wedding.  I had a list of 10 I considered to be very good.  The first 2 were not available when I finaly made my choice.  So I hired the 3rd.  I was completely dissatisfied with his pictures.  He had great portfolio, and great online samples.  But the fact is, less than 20% of his pictures were technically correct.  I hired a "pro" you are suggesting, and still got bad service.  Just like any job, people have bad days.  Maybe he was having equipment issues, I don't know ( I did not ask for any money back, I just made no orders of pictures).  The fact is I paid premium price for his services and was completely dissatisfied.  There are 0 guarantees that if they did find a pro on short notice, that person has skill to be good or not.

And as for your statement that anyone shooting in auto mode is going to ruin a picture 9 out of 10 times is just ignorance or elitist attitude on your part.  You are saying that 90% of the time the cameras computers and settings developed over several decades by a dozen manufacturers are wrong!  Your flat out stating Nikon and Canon have no clue what they are doing, their cameras can produce a good picture less than 10% of the time!

I just happen to have more confidence that a novice photographer using a camera in full auto has a better chance of taking some decent pictures.  Than no one taking pictures at all!!!

If I have insulted anyone, I appoligize.  But the fact is advice is being given to just give up.  Don't even try.  My train of thought for this entire subject is, a pure novice cannot be possibly worse than no photographer at all!


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## chrisburke (Oct 28, 2008)

sorry,  but from my experience auto mode SUCKS,  so maybe I am saying that nikon and canon failed on that..  anyways, i'm done on this one.. no point in arguing with someone..


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## pictureme (Oct 29, 2008)

I will like to thank all who gave me the tips i needed.Second i will like to ask all the negative grumpy people IS THIS YOUR WEDDING ? ok then dont worrie about what i shoot or how it comes out ,its my sister and she wants me there.The last time i checked this site was about photography not talking down on people or bashing because you know more then i do ....If you think im doing something wrong then there is a way to say it but at the same time give the advice needed if you cant then dont bother.*chrisburke* , you actually went so low to go and look for other post of mine lol lol that is so funny ,to me seems like you just trying to bash and get some point accross,for you and the others who jump into the band wagon ..you are a sorry laime as person (get lost)regardless of who or what they know you shouldnt put anyone down ...you started somewhere so am i ....this site has left a bad tatse in my mouth NEGATIVITY ALL around this site (sad) come at me right or dont come at all .Againg ,thank you all who help me out here ,i apreciate the help and wish there was more people like this in this world .


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## benhasajeep (Oct 29, 2008)

pictureme said:


> I will like to thank all who gave me the tips i needed.Second i will like to ask all the negative grumpy people IS THIS YOUR WEDDING ? ok then dont worrie about what i shoot or how it comes out ,its my sister and she wants me there.The last time i checked this site was about photography not talking down on people or bashing because you know more then i do ....If you think im doing something wrong then there is a way to say it but at the same time give the advice needed if you cant then dont bother


 
Don't get discouraged with adverse advice from others.  Even though in this situation I disagreed with several in this post.  They are giving advice based on many situations in the past that were disasters.  Be it happend to them or just something they heard about.  And its always good to hear both sides of the fence.

So don't get discouraged with this site.  Just like in everything in life there is always 2 sides to the story.  And there will be times where the answer will not be what your looking or hoping for.  So, try not to take any comments personal.


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## pictureme (Oct 29, 2008)

benhasajeep said:


> Don't get discouraged with adverse advice from others. Even though in this situation I disagreed with several in this post. They are giving advice based on many situations in the past that were disasters. Be it happend to them or just something they heard about. And its always good to hear both sides of the fence.
> 
> So don't get discouraged with this site. Just like in everything in life there is always 2 sides to the story. And there will be times where the answer will not be what your looking or hoping for. So, try not to take any comments personal.


 :thumbsup:True..


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## chrisburke (Oct 29, 2008)

yea,  i wasnt trying to knock on you,  i just dont think what your doing is right, and its not cause I think you suck, its because of former experiences that were just bad,  I don't want others to have to go through some of the things i've been through... i wasnt trying to be a dick, I promise... and the other people who advised you the same advice I gave, and I garentee they were thinking the same way... obviosuly people have to start somewhere.. theres just a good place to start, and a not so good place to start... some one us feel weddings are not the place to start, BUT if your comfortable with it,  givver shivver and make sure you post the pics when your done.


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## reg (Oct 29, 2008)

chrisburke said:


> Anyways, I think this thread is rediclous, I cant believe there are people encouraging thing type of work... half assed, "take the pictures for me" type of photography.. its sad, and you should be ashamed of yourself for thinking its ok.  yes wedding photography is expensive, but it can be decently priced to.. where I live, wedding packages run from around 500-5000 dollars, and you know what the 500 is good, you just dont get pictures of the whole day... I'm sure most photographers have packages where you can "just have the ceremony" or whatever,



He's really right.


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## pictureme (Oct 30, 2008)

Wedding Photography said:


> Anyway, good luck to you! Do the best you can and I hope you share your experience with us later. Definitely post some fotos you made in the wedding!


 Thanks and i will post some pictures up...


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## pictureme (Oct 30, 2008)

reg said:


> He's really right.


 Your kidding me right ? you come here and throw your 2 on this thread knowing its been out the door ? Lets not start the fire up again.What has been said is done ,no heart feelings anywhere...everyone said what they said and we leave as that .Thank you


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## SilverGlow (Oct 30, 2008)

KhronoS said:


> Yes you are right about it. But even that, is it hard to explain gently?
> 
> I noticed in a lot of threads that mean attitude. That is what bothers me. I even made a thread where i had some problems at a wedding where i was a *BACKUP* photographer, and still i was treated with hostility
> 
> ...


 
So then you're the type of friend that gives another freind the advise that they want to hear?  That is not a true friend and that way of thinking is devoid of truth.

True friends are supposed to protect, and not to encourage a mistake.

A much better friend says what needs to be said, and NEVER what the other wants to hear.  Truth versus lies type stuff.

Often times the best advise is IN FACT that type that one does not want to hear.  The mature person understand this.  The adult adolecenct types don't.  In other words, if the OP is mature and smart, he will thank us "bad rude posters" for our frank advise.  If he is immature, he will accuse us of being negative, rude, and well, write what you wrote ;-)

Now the OP is asking for help.  Well, since he is months or years away from doing a real wedding, any help any of us seasoned chaps would give him would be lost because he does not have the time to learn our advise before his sister's wedding.

What you don't seem to understand is that I and others know MANY married couples, especially brides, two, five, ten or more years after their wedding, that look at their horribly captured pictures and cry in shame, and regret.  This type of thing can be a source of PROFOUND pain through the life of that marriage.  THAT is what you don't seem to understand.  

That special day is not about the newbie photographer.  It is about the bride and groom and ONLY them.

If you can be more sensitive to the bride and groom, then you too will understand why several of us advise the OP to not do this wedding.


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## SilverGlow (Oct 30, 2008)

benhasajeep said:


> And as for your statement that anyone shooting in auto mode is going to ruin a picture 9 out of 10 times is just ignorance or elitist attitude on your part. You are saying that 90% of the time the cameras computers and settings developed over several decades by a dozen manufacturers are wrong! Your flat out stating Nikon and Canon have no clue what they are doing, their cameras can produce a good picture less than 10% of the time!


 
In your paragpraph above, therein lies the problem with your thinking.

In fact, both Canon and Nikon and all the major brands do in fact find fault with their auto settings. And in fact, BOTH Canon and Nikon advise their pro users NOT to use many of their auto settings as a policy.

And in fact, Canon and Nikon are so leary about the auto settings that they provide on their cameras and flashes, that they have added the following features to compensate for the limitations of their auto settings:

1. Modes M, Av, Tv.
2. E-TTL overrides.
3. The ability to split the exposure between body and flash with infinite variations.
4. WB overrides.

The list goes on and on and on....

And you'll never find even one successful pro event/wedding photographer that relies on full auto as a best practice.

Do you really believe that the engineers at Canon and Nikon can create auto camera systems to support all or nearly all shooting situations? Even those two companies don't think so, but it seems you do...why is that?


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## roadkill (Oct 30, 2008)

Dont do the wedding.


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## benhasajeep (Oct 30, 2008)

SilverGlow said:


> In your paragpraph above, therein lies the problem with your thinking.
> 
> In fact, both Canon and Nikon and all the major brands do in fact find fault with their auto settings. And in fact, BOTH Canon and Nikon advise their pro users NOT to use many of their auto settings as a policy.
> 
> ...


 
I just don't think people are reading / listening to what others are saying! They are so set in their opinions that they are not willing to modify their thinking for different situations.

Here are my points.

1 - It is a very short time to the event. During spring summer fall, deppending on where your at. There may be no photographer to hire!
2 - It is not known if the people in question can even afford $50 for a pro! MONEY is a huge factor for alot of people. Not everyone can afford a pro! And I can't understand why people can't get that!
3 - Nobody knows if the person is a pure novice or has some ability. MOST people I know will always side towards describing themselves with less ability than they believe they have. This photo site is proof positive of that. People all the time on here are posting pics that are terrific (not just a shot or two, but many) and yet they call themselves novices / beginner. They obviously have some skill and a good understanding of picture taking. It is a psychological safety net to do that! Of course then there are some others who profess to know it all and they can't even keep the horizon level when taking pics.
4 - His SISTER is the client. Her opinion is more important than anyone on this site. If she asked him, she has her reasons, and not one person on here knows those reasons!
5 - Quality is in the eye of the viewer. His sister might be happy as can be with just so so pictures. You may think they suck, but the fact is, if she is happy with them, thats all is required!
6 - Why not be proactive instead of being negative? Ok, this is a bad situation. Instead of writing a 2 page post on you suck, don't do it, others are wrong, and arguing with others giving opposite advice. Why not take the time and tell them why you are saying that. Not one person listed an example of why it would be so horrable for him to do it!!! Just general references.
7 - *Full AUTO mode on a camera and a monkey behind it will take better pictures than no photographer at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!* A Bride with no picture cannot cry over its bad quality!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! She will be crying because she has none at all!!!!!!!!!!!! My nephew took pictures at my wedding. He is 11. He had a very cheap Vivatar digital. We printed 4 of the pictures he took! To date I have printed 15 pictures from a PRO. My nephew using full AUTO on a CHEAP camera has a higher print vs. shots taken average than a guy I paid $2,200 too!!! There are no guranties!
8 - Nobody has even asked if this is the brides 1st, 2nd, 3rd, wedding. There is a major difference in this fact. Maybe its her third and photos are not that important to her. Many of the people here without ever knowing, is assuming that the photos are extremely important to her!
9 - The Bride may not even care to have photos at all! My mothers 2nd wedding did not have a single photo taken (Vegas wedding, only 3 family members were there). And she could care less, was not important to her (still married to him btw, together 20 years).
10 - The OP is not a PRO and has never claimed to be one. And yet people went after him to prove he was not, and even went out of their way to try and knock him down for professing to be anything more than a pure novice!
11 - There are several people on here whos advice it was to hire a pro. Some said hire one yourself as a gift. Maybe get others to help hire one. They obviously don't mind spending other peoples money. Again there is a time constraint, and I don't know many young people that can come up with a couple hundred real fast to do a gift like that. Again giving advice in a situation when they don't know the whole story yet!!! MONEY is a huge factor for alot of people. They may not be willing to say so, out of embarassment!
12 - If he takes horriable pictures. Is it going to hurt anyone on the forum or any single pro in the world, photography in general? Of course not! I am quite sure everyone in his family knows he is not a pro. And anyone who is close enough friends or family wise that views his pictures, would know he is not a pro.

I am not condoning any novice to just feel free and go out and shoot weddings all they want. I NEVER said that! The problem I have with others just flat out saying your going to ruin it, is they never asked even simple questions about the event! They went into automatic mode YOUR GOING TO SREW IT UP! Not one person took the time to even describe one event that went bad. Reasons that they personally experienced for them to have their opinions. Didn't even spend the few clicks it would take to reference a "horror" post from themselves or another. And yet they spent paragraph's of typing knocking him down, and arguing why they are right to others. Again never posting any examples! Not one person who said don't do it even offered to help! A person was drowning and they filled the pool with more water!

Being a good photographer is more than technical knowledge and a good eye. You also need to be a decent person as well. Because if your a total arse all the time. Nobody is going to want to look at your pics. Could be the best pic in the world, but they wont take the time to look, and if they do, just because your such an arse, they will not give you the benefit of letting you know!

If a guy is drowning throw him a line. If you don't have a line tell him how to get to shore. If he is heading for a water fall, saying hey don't go that way helps no one. Tell him hes heading for a freaking waterfall!!!


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## Dennis Munn (Oct 30, 2008)

Don't listen to all these quys. You got the equipment you need. If you use your flash and put it on automatic you will get great photos. For photos close up flip the flash head up and use a reflector card and let the light bounce off the card and cieling. I have photographed hundrends of weddings over the past 35 years. Relax. Shoot everything that you see. Shoot close ups of flowers rings, people and things. Look for unuasual angles. Get down low for instance if the ceremoney is in a church and shoot the actual cermony with the camera on the floor. Get up high and shoot down on people. Shoot hundrends of photos. You will do fine


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## benhasajeep (Oct 30, 2008)

SilverGlow said:


> In your paragpraph above, therein lies the problem with your thinking.
> 
> In fact, both Canon and Nikon and all the major brands do in fact find fault with their auto settings. And in fact, BOTH Canon and Nikon advise their pro users NOT to use many of their auto settings as a policy.
> 
> ...


 
*-- I believe this post has only brought up 1 area of photography.  And that is a banquet / wedding!  NOT ALL SHOOTING situations!  I never ever stated that they did or could!  I only stated they have been working on it for years and have gotten pretty good at it.  And that there was a better than 10% chance a good picture would come from using Auto.   And the fact is, if photography was not easier for people to get good results easily with their camera.  It would not be as popular as it is today.  And that is a fact.   Look at all the point and shoot cameras that are sold.  Probably 10 to 1 or more to SLR / DSLR.  Most of them dont even allow aperature priority or shutter priority.  Basically point and shoot cameras.  People seem to be happy with the results they get from them!  If they didn't, you would not have a minilab in every drug store or wal mart to process their pictures!  The facts are, there are way more fully auto cameras than PRO models out there.  *


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## pictureme (Oct 31, 2008)

benhasajeep and Dennis Munn,Thank you lots ...this is the kind of words people like to read .Even if i got the door closed on me from the get go i still feel confidece and with the good advise i got here and it just boost it up more .I tell you this,ones im on the floor taking pictures im sure ill get some great shots ...all i wanted was advise to see if the equipment i have was good enough...i needed the best settings THATS ALL ...i know how to shoot ,the angles ,close ups etc..... you wll be suprise what pictures i have taking...But im sure ones i load some pictures up after the wedding  the grumpy people will find something bad on it ....dont bite your self on the but cause it could cause you pain ones you see what could be done .Thank you and have a great weekend


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## SilverGlow (Oct 31, 2008)

benhasajeep said:


> *-- I believe this post has only brought up 1 area of photography. And that is a banquet / wedding! NOT ALL SHOOTING situations! I never ever stated that they did or could! I only stated they have been working on it for years and have gotten pretty good at it. And that there was a better than 10% chance a good picture would come from using Auto. And the fact is, if photography was not easier for people to get good results easily with their camera. It would not be as popular as it is today. And that is a fact. Look at all the point and shoot cameras that are sold. Probably 10 to 1 or more to SLR / DSLR. Most of them dont even allow aperature priority or shutter priority. Basically point and shoot cameras. People seem to be happy with the results they get from them! If they didn't, you would not have a minilab in every drug store or wal mart to process their pictures! The facts are, there are way more fully auto cameras than PRO models out there. *


 
Good point!

Ok, in my post above, replace "pro" with "anyone that shoots a wedding".

The OP says he knows all the angles, the shots needed, in the face of being ignorant of the required camera/flash settings...talk about an oximoronic statement!

By the way, I suspect you've never seen the hurt look on a bride's face as she reviews her pictures taken by an over exuberant photographic newbie...sure it was "her idea", but like a lot of ideas, there is that darned regret after the fact. And that regret is there the next day and the next day...especially when shecompares pictures with her other bride friends, and when they see that Sally's pictures are freakin awesome times 10, and they were taken by an advanced newbie that did their homework...well, you better hand her a box of kleenix...

And even for those pros (shooting other genres) that have never shot a wedding, I would advise them too, not to do it unil they have assisted and did their massive homework, so it's not just the newbies that I advise in such a way.

Just because it's the brides idea does not mean one should do it...you forget you're dealing with humans here....sometimes the problem with asking for something is that one often gets it.

If a bride can't afford a $500 pro photog, the I seriously question her reasons for getting married...one must NEVER get married unless they can afford a decent low budget wedding...it sounds like the OP's sister is having a no-budget wedding....I've got two daughters....I raised them to choose better then that...

Youth and immaturity ignores their weaknesses, and the feelings of others....one must know one's limitations. A mature person is not afraid to say NO.


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## benhasajeep (Oct 31, 2008)

SilverGlow said:


> Good point!
> 
> Ok, in my post above, replace "pro" with "anyone that shoots a wedding".
> 
> ...


 
*So, now your saying poor people should not get married since they can't afford $500 for a wedding photog? How about a Honeymoon. If they can't afford that, should they not get married? What's the minimum income you need to get married? Where do you draw the line? Don't get me wrong, alot of people get married that should not, for alot of reasons. But the simple fact is, it's none of my business!!! Plus I don't totally agree with you. I have a friend who got married at 19 while in college, very very little money, it was a baby comming type deal. They are one of the ones who asked me to take pictures and I declined. Honnestly, I didn't give them that much of a chance. But the fact is they are now married for 18 years, 4 kids, and he makes enough that she is a stay at home mom, and they have a bunch of nice things. So, where do you draw the line?*

*It's great you have taken the time to raise your children well. You should get kudos for that this day and age. But the fact is, not everyone gets that! And just becasue they don't get that. Doesn't mean their choices in life should be reduced! *

*Sorry, if I am arguing.  Just a couple things with this post does hit home for me.  It's just the opposite problem occured for me.  I paid at least the medium rate for a photog and got screwed.  But that still doesn't make me want to limit someone elses wedding just becasue a pro is not taking pictures.  And its not I got screwed, let them get screwed thing either.  It's more, you never really know what your going to get dealt type attitued.  The cup is half full!*


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## pictureme (Oct 31, 2008)

Dennis Munn said:


> Don't listen to all these quys. You got the equipment you need. If you use your flash and put it on automatic you will get great photos. For photos close up flip the flash head up and use a reflector card and let the light bounce off the card and cieling. I have photographed hundrends of weddings over the past 35 years. Relax. Shoot everything that you see. Shoot close ups of flowers rings, people and things. Look for unuasual angles. Get down low for instance if the ceremoney is in a church and shoot the actual cermony with the camera on the floor. Get up high and shoot down on people. Shoot hundrends of photos. You will do fine


Look at The advise i get from someone who has 35 years under there belt .....NICE


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## SilverGlow (Oct 31, 2008)

pictureme said:


> Look at The advise i get from someone who has 35 years under there belt .....NICE


 
He is just ONE "pro".

I would challange you to pose your questions on a true pro wedding forum and see what those pros say?  Do you remember statistics from college?  If your sample is one person your conclusions are apt to be wrong.  If your sampling is 10's, dozens or more then now you are able to plot a trendline.

So ask several more pros and report back with the trend you plot ;-)


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## pictureme (Oct 31, 2008)

SilverGlow said:


> He is just ONE "pro".
> 
> I would challange you to pose your questions on a true pro wedding forum and see what those pros say?  Do you remember statistics from college?  If your sample is one person your conclusions are apt to be wrong.  If your sampling is 10's, dozens or more then now you are able to plot a trendline.
> 
> So ask several more pros and report back with the trend you plot ;-)


Oh i have ,i been to plenty of sites ad pros have told me different ...from good advise to telling me my wrongs in a big different way you do and others here....  i was bashed on here and its sad to see people like your self try to knock people down ....


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## manaheim (Oct 31, 2008)

Hey, picture.  You really were not being bashed.  People were sharing concern and trying to instill a measure of caution.  A lot of people don't realize how major of an undertaking this _can_ be, and how important it is to most brides.  Folks here have a lot of experience with it... and many have even gotten themselves into trouble.  They just really hate to see others go through the same thing.

They're trying to help.

They're neither belittling you, your skills, or anything.

Don't take it personally.


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## SilverGlow (Nov 1, 2008)

manaheim said:


> Hey, picture. You really were not being bashed. People were sharing concern and trying to instill a measure of caution. A lot of people don't realize how major of an undertaking this _can_ be, and how important it is to most brides. Folks here have a lot of experience with it... and many have even gotten themselves into trouble. They just really hate to see others go through the same thing.
> 
> They're trying to help.
> 
> ...


 
Manaheim is dead right, 100% right on the money...thanks Manaheim, but you're still not getting no Christmas card from me!   :lmao:


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## roadkill (Nov 2, 2008)

Don't do the wedding.


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## Sgtchavez (Nov 3, 2008)

Wow, this place is crazy. I have known plenty of people that get married without even a camera in sight. Some pictures are definately better than no pictures. I'm new here and I'm also fairly new at this art as well, but I have assisted multiple times and have seen the amount of work put in by the photographer and assistant. Maybe you can get a friend who is more experienced than you to help you shoot or just guide you around for your first time. Like someone else said, they can only say no.


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## JerryPH (Nov 3, 2008)

One has to walk before they run.  For an experienced photographer, a wedding is an exciting and VERY challenging event.  For a beginner, it is an exercise in futility.  The equivalent of you are asking a 16-year old who just got their driver's license to not drive in a NASCAR race, but win it!  It's not going to happen.  

Wedding photography is *the most demanding event* that any photographer will ever face.  In no other aspect of photography will you face as many challenges in a short period of time... period.  A beginner cannot hope to do anywhere near as well as a seasoned pro anymore than my 16-year old above can win that NASCAR race.

What sincerely needs to happen, is that the egos of the budding photographers need to be put aside and the B&G should be thought of first, not the now possibly injured pride of the "relative" wanting to play pro 'tog.  

Near anyone can learn to shoot a wedding, that's not the issue here.  What *is* the issue is that if your knowledge base is not solid, you are simply not ready.

If the budding photographers here *really* cared about the B&G, they would politely refuse to shoot and would instead assist in finding them a proper photographer, one that would do them justice.

The battle cry of the new photographer is  "well some pictures are better than none".  Well that may or may not be true and I seriously wonder about that.  Just think of what the bride and groom have to look at 20 years later... if they were given the choice and told to find a good photographer, 20 years later and looking at those pictures, they would be smiling... instead of fervently wishing someone had cared enough to tell them the truth and stood up for them to get proper pictures done.  But, it's all too late now, and they have to spend the rest of their lives living with that mistake... all mostly because of a good samaritan who did not care enough about the couple to either pass the baton to someone competent or did not bother to take the time to learn to do it right.

It always make me feel sad for the bride and groom... to come out on the dirty end of that stick.  It's just not fair for THEM... to hell with the injured pride of the beginner, the day is not about them, its about the couple standing there at the front exchanging vows and rings.  The day people start to believe that, is the day that the couple starts to get what they truly deserve.


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