# Lighting issue... help?



## DGMPhotography (Feb 14, 2017)

So I was photographing an event (without flash) and kept having really inconsistent lighting in my photos. I checked my settings and everything was manual (i.e. settings weren't changing between photos). And I also looked away from the camera to see if the lights were flickering or something, but that wasn't the case either. I tried some different SD cards too and no dice.

Any idea what could be causing this? I'm stumped.


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## tirediron (Feb 14, 2017)

Fluorescent lights and AC voltage.  They're constantly cycling.  You can't see it with your eye, but it's happening.


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## DGMPhotography (Feb 14, 2017)

tirediron said:


> Fluorescent lights and AC voltage.  They're constantly cycling.  You can't see it with your eye, but it's happening.



Oh really???

That's so interesting!


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## KmH (Feb 14, 2017)

Yep. 60 cycles a second.


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## dasmith232 (Feb 14, 2017)

There's a similar problem with Mercury(?)/Sodium(?) vapor lights used in various sports venues. I've seen it in tennis and ice hockey facilities. You'll either get light or no-light between shots, but also can get color shifts from frame to frame. Weird shades of red or green randomly appear in the shots.

If your shutter is open long enough (1/60th or slower) then you won't see the effect. Of course you'll be dealing with camera shake or subject blur.


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## DGMPhotography (Feb 14, 2017)

Yeah, I was thinking maybe a slower shutter speed might help, but then you have motion blur. 

Any other ways to counter this? I know the best solution is probably flash, but you don't always have that option.


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## smoke665 (Feb 14, 2017)

The older fluorescent lights flickered at twice the supply frequency when new, but more as it nears the end of life. Using a shutter speed of less than 1/100 (or less) will give more consistent results. Bumping the ISO to get above the flicker synch isn't an option, as the fluorescent doesn't maintain a consistent temperature like an incandescent bulb, and the flicker acts like multiple flashes from a strobe causing banding in some cases. If you want consistent color and faster shutter speeds you have to use a speedlight.

Footnote: The new T8 bulbs and CFL's operate at substantially higher frequency (25-60 KHz) which is beyond perception of the human eye. I've used some CFL's for lighting with no noticeable effects, but not T8's.


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## pixmedic (Feb 14, 2017)

DGMPhotography said:


> Yeah, I was thinking maybe a slower shutter speed might help, but then you have motion blur.
> 
> Any other ways to counter this? I know the best solution is probably flash, but you don't always have that option.



shoot in raw and fix the WB and exposure during editing.


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## astroNikon (Feb 14, 2017)

A D500 has a Flicker feature to compensate for this.
Could always buy a new camera


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## Destin (Feb 14, 2017)

astroNikon said:


> A D500 has a Flicker feature to compensate for this.
> Could always buy a new camera



Thus far, this has been the single biggest improvement I've noted with the new D500. The number of keepers from indoor sports shooting has gone up dramatically because I don't lose frames to the cycling lights anymore. 

Genius addition by Nikon


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## Trever1t (Feb 14, 2017)

I learned something new! I never shoot indoor lighting other than stage lighting, good one!


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## DGMPhotography (Feb 14, 2017)

astroNikon said:


> A D500 has a Flicker feature to compensate for this.
> Could always buy a new camera



I didn't know it did that! That's cool. No wonder it's such a great sports photo.


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## goooner (Feb 15, 2017)

Think your d750 has the flicker reduction feature 60Hz for the US, and 50Hz for continental Europe, p408 in your user manual (not sure if its for the lcd screen, or if it times the shutter for the peak 'light times').  I know I have it on my D7200.


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## Destin (Feb 15, 2017)

goooner said:


> Think your d750 has the flicker reduction feature 60Hz for the US, and 50Hz for continental Europe, p408 in your user manual (not sure if its for the lcd screen, or if it times the shutter for the peak 'light times').  I know I have it on my D7200.



As I understand that's for video on older cameras. 

Only the d5 and d500 link it to the shutter for still photos.


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## goooner (Feb 15, 2017)

Destin said:


> goooner said:
> 
> 
> > Think your d750 has the flicker reduction feature 60Hz for the US, and 50Hz for continental Europe, p408 in your user manual (not sure if its for the lcd screen, or if it times the shutter for the peak 'light times').  I know I have it on my D7200.
> ...


Not sure tbh, might only work in Live view mode, but I will have to double check this. Using a ss of 60 (50), or 125 (100) will probably be the best way to combat this if your camera does not have the anti flicker mode.


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## astroNikon (Feb 15, 2017)

D750 Flicker information



 

..
D500 Flicker information


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## astroNikon (Feb 15, 2017)

From what I've read the Flicker on the D5 is similar to the D750's capabilities.  The D500 is the only one with it more automatic where the camera will identify if Flicker is present and then compensate for it if needed.  You can keep the option turned on all the time.


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## goooner (Feb 15, 2017)

OK, so the 'older' tech is only for Live view/video capture.


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## astroNikon (Feb 15, 2017)

DGMPhotography said:


> astroNikon said:
> 
> 
> > A D500 has a Flicker feature to compensate for this.
> ...


The problem is with sports, if you have it turned on it affects the FPS and when the camera takes a shot.  So it's recommended for getting the shot especially if you use 10fps, to have it turned off.  There's a short thread about it on TPF somewhere here that I think I started about the Flicker.


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## smoke665 (Feb 15, 2017)

Looks like I learned something myself today. I haven't used my K3ii under old style fluorescent lights, so it hasn't been an issue. After the above comments I went back to my camera manual and surprise, it has flicker control also. Comes from the factory set to the default of 50 Hz, but is switchable to 60 Hz.


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## Destin (Feb 15, 2017)

astroNikon said:


> The problem is with sports, if you have it turned on it affects the FPS and when the camera takes a shot.  So it's recommended for getting the shot especially if you use 10fps, to have it turned off.  There's a short thread about it on TPF somewhere here that I think I started about the Flicker.



While the manual reports that this could be a problem, I've not yet experienced it. Ive been shooting indoor sports in buildings with known cycling lights, at 10 fps, and not lost frame rate or experienced any hesitation. 

I suspect that that slower shutter speeds you could run into it, but at 1/500+ it hasnt slowed my camera down at all. 

If you think about it, you're shooting ten frames per second. The light cycles 60 times per second. That means that it just had to choose the brightest 10/60 cycles, which, in my experience, hasn't slowed my frame rate at all.


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## astroNikon (Feb 15, 2017)

Destin said:


> astroNikon said:
> 
> 
> > The problem is with sports, if you have it turned on it affects the FPS and when the camera takes a shot.  So it's recommended for getting the shot especially if you use 10fps, to have it turned off.  There's a short thread about it on TPF somewhere here that I think I started about the Flicker.
> ...


I haven't had the problem with my D500.  Actually my D500 can't handle the super low light / bad lighting of the indoor soccer I've been doing.  So I can only use the D600 / D750.

But another TPFer brought this issue up of when they did sports .. I'll search for the thread.

Edit:  @MSnowy   mentions it
Nikon D500 Flicker mode (alternate current lighting)


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## Destin (Feb 15, 2017)

astroNikon said:


> Destin said:
> 
> 
> > astroNikon said:
> ...



You're having problems with the D500 in low light? Weird. What iso are you working at? 

I compared mine to a friends d610 and thought that my d500 was at least a stop better. 

Msnowy just mentions that it could be an issue. I inquired if he's actually experienced it.

I read the warning that it could slow the shutter in my manual, but that hasn't been my experience as of yet.


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## astroNikon (Feb 15, 2017)

Destin said:


> astroNikon said:
> 
> 
> > Destin said:
> ...


The Indoor soccer place has *bad* lighting too.  Awful.
you can see the lighting setup here when I was testing a sport camera on the lens foot ==> 




read about it here but with "normal" indoor lighting it's fine as I shot a basketball game and it had no issues.  Just this particular type of lighting ==> D500 vs D750 Indoor Soccer Shootout


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## DGMPhotography (Feb 17, 2017)

Ah, well now I know to check out that flicker reduction setting! Thanks so much, guys! Truly powerful technology.


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