# Using flash with film cameras?



## Patriot

The same day I received my first film camera I was curious to see if the Nikon SB-910 would work. It did like a champ! Good thing Nikon keep the flash hot shoe the same after all this time. How do you know exactly when the flash setting are just right? How do you know when it will be too powerful? You can't just fire off test shots and check the picture like with digital. 

I know that I would be using the manual mode since the flash most likely can't or won't be receiving any information from the body itself. So using the manual settings on the flash is a must. 


-Hunt


----------



## Helen B

Film cameras can use TTL metering at the time of exposure - ie the meter can read off the film itself, and send a 'quench now' signal to the flash via a quench pin connection. That means that a pre-flash is not required for metering. Some older Nikon flash guns could be used with both TTL and D-TTL/iTTL (which don't use a quench signal because the meter cannot read off the sensor - it isn't a diffuse reflector like film is). As far as I know, the SB-910 doesn't do TTL (in that Nikon-flash-specific meaning - it does measure through the lens), so even if the film camera has TTL flash, you have to use the 910 in manual or auto (it does have auto, dousn't it? The flash itself still has a metering sensor, I think)

As far as metering goes, you can use the flash's own meter, or use a guide number method (ie calculate the aperture from the guide number, applying various adjustments for the situation. Before the days of auto flash we would be used to doing that - it was the norm. You could also use a separate flash meter.


----------



## Patriot

Thank you for the help. The SB-910 does have TTL and iTTL and a setting for the guide numbers. Hopefully I can type in the numbers and the flash does everything else for me.


----------



## Helen B

As I said, it has auto (A) mode - that is a non-TTL mode that uses the flash's own sensor, so it will work with a film camera in an automatic mode.

Don't get confused (it is easy) between the TTL display on the flash LCD and TTL mode for film. It doesn't have what Nikon call TTL, it has iTTL. The 'Terminolgy' section of the manual explains this term.


----------



## BrianV

The Nikon SB-15 was current with the Nikon FG, and should make use of the TTL capability of the camera.

Random Ebay auction.

Nikon Speedlight SB 15 Camera Flash 071952321147 | eBay

About the price of a good set of batteries.


----------



## Helen B

Though more expensive, you might want to consider the SB-800 if you were going to buy a second flash. The SB-800 works in TTL with TTL-flash capable Nikon film cameras, in iTTL, in auto, and it works together with the SB-910 as a system, so you would expand your lighting possibilities quite a lot. The SB-800 is probably the Nikon flash with the greatest compatibility, and it offers TTL-metered bounce options that aren't available on the SB-15 without a TTL cord.


----------



## AaronLLockhart

I have a flash from the 70's that has "TTL" technology built into it. It doesn't really meter through the lens, but it has an exposure meter built into the front of it that exposed different flash values determined that your aperture is specified to be set to 5.6.

I honestly would go with a really old single connection external flash. Most of them have the distance calculations integrated for settings on the snout of the flash back then. Almost all manual flashes had them on 85 model or older
Flashes. Something the new stuff absolutely does not have.

My first external flash was a Neewer TT560, and it took me forever to learn how to expose correctly with it. However, if it had a readout on the setting dial like the old flashes have... It would have been cake to learn on.


----------



## Josh66

I use a flash meter.  Before that, I just figured it out by using the guide number of the flash - that was accurate enough.


Use a meter if you can, if not, get comfortable estimating distances and figuring it out based on the guide number.


----------



## Helen B

AaronLLockhart said:


> I have a flash from the 70's that has "TTL" technology built into it. It doesn't really meter through the lens, but it has an exposure meter built into the front of it that exposed different flash values determined that your aperture is specified to be set to 5.6.
> 
> I honestly would go with a really old single connection external flash.



That is what is known as auto flash. As you say, it isn't TTL.

Why would you recommend a non-TTL flash when the OP has a TTL-capable camera? Just wondering what the reason is.


----------



## BrianV

Do not use a really old flash with the Nikon FG. This would be bad. The older flashes dump the entire capacitor through the camera, and causes problems with electronic cameras. New flashes use a different circuit to fire, basically put a low-power signal through the camera to sync up. Newer cameras (some, anyway) protect against the older flashes, and (they say) will not blow-out. I use an older Vivitar 283 bought for an Elvis concert with cameras with mechanical sync, prefer dedicated flashes for newer cameras. At $20 or so, hard to beat the price of an SB-15 for a Nikon FG. The SB-15 has a built-in sensor, and TTL mode.

Guide-Numbers. I have a GN-Nikkor 45/2.8. The lens sets the F-Stop for you as you focus, set the GN into the lens. Otherwise, it is a slower process to measure the distance and then manually set the F-Stop on the lens.


----------



## Patriot

I'm going to go with the sb-15 for the FG because of the price. As you said you can't beat that. How is the lighting how lighting on the flash with out a diffusion dome/stofen? I guess I will just have to practice with the sb-910 too, I like the ideal of being able to rotate the head and bounce off the walls. I thought that there would be video on YouTube about this subject but there isn't. I learn better by seeing it actually happen.  

To be honest I'm glade I wasn't in those days. It seems like it take some time before firing a shot, and calculations. 

-Hunt


----------



## Helen B

You got used to it very quickly, and it became second nature. Flash bulbs were a little different, because you had to change them every shot.


----------



## jake337

I have been using my D90 with a flash to get an estimate of where I want to be, setting wise, when using a bounced flash indoors.  Only bothersome part of the deal is that the FM2n has a 1/250 flash sync and my d90 only does 1/200.  It will use high FP sync for over 1/200 but I'm pretty sure the Fm2n won't allow high FP sync, correct?


----------



## AaronLLockhart

Helen B said:
			
		

> That is what is known as auto flash. As you say, it isn't TTL.
> 
> Why would you recommend a non-TTL flash when the OP has a TTL-capable camera? Just wondering what the reason is.



Hey Helen,

Sorry it took me so long to respond. The TTL settings aren't very accurate, first of all. I have 3 TTL flashes, including an SB900 and there are still images that come out over and under exposed within the flashes limitations. Second of all, he will never learn how to really use a flash of he's always using TTL.

I have gotten to the point where I set all of my flashes up manually, and bounce the flash, because its more consistent than using TTL. 

Like I said, on the back of most older flashes the power setting on the flash will tell you exactly what aperture, shutter speed and distance your subject needs to be for proper exposure.


----------



## BrianV

Patriot said:


> I'm going to go with the sb-15 for the FG because of the price. As you said you can't beat that. How is the lighting how lighting on the flash with out a diffusion dome/stofen? I guess I will just have to practice with the sb-910 too, I like the ideal of being able to rotate the head and bounce off the walls. I thought that there would be video on YouTube about this subject but there isn't. I learn better by seeing it actually happen.
> 
> To be honest I'm glade I wasn't in those days. It seems like it take some time before firing a shot, and calculations.
> 
> -Hunt



The SB-15 has a swivel on the flash-head, and you can pivot the flash on the shoe. You should be able to use as a bounce flash, or even make a diffusion accessory. White Paper Plates work. I was 12 when Istarted using manual elextronic flashes with Guide Numbers. It was slow, I loved the Automatic flashes when they became affordable. The Vivitar 283 is great, 35 years later still gets use.


----------



## Josh66

jake337 said:


> I have been using my D90 with a flash to get an estimate of where I want to be, setting wise, when using a bounced flash indoors.  Only bothersome part of the deal is that the FM2n has a 1/250 flash sync and my d90 only does 1/200.  It will use high FP sync for over 1/200 but I'm pretty sure the Fm2n won't allow high FP sync, correct?



If you're just using it to check exposure (basically a very expensive flash meter, lol), the difference between the x-sync speeds will not matter.  If there is a lot of ambient light, it might become an issue though.


----------



## BrianV

Nikon SB-15/17 - Instruction Manual

Some basic info on the SB-15. I might have an instruction manual somewhere in th closet. Somehow, I've ended up with an SB2, SB12, 2 SB-15's, SB-17, SB-23, SB25, SB28, and SB-29.


----------

