# brand-fanatics and gear-heads (rant)



## Alex_B (Apr 22, 2007)

When I was setting up my tripod and camera for some long exposures on a busy street in the city recently, I was (of course) attracting some attention, some people just asking what I was doing, some wanting to be in the picture and some even thought they would be on TV :mrgreen: (guess the big lens shade, the somewhat more complicated tripod head and the large almost black ND filter mislead them in some way .. )

But one thing which really upset me was that I was approached 
by people who only walked up to me to see my gear, realise it is not Nikon and then tell me they would not want to have it because Nikon makes the best cameras in the world, with a stupid smile to punch his face for. 

And this is not the first time similar things happened. Why are there so many idiots in photography? I tend to look at the images people produce, as this is all which matters, and would expect this to be the same for anyone into photography.

Just something strange I realised in my local environment: It is only people with Nikons (and to some extent Leicas) looking "down" on others and aggressively telling them that other brands (Canon, Olympus, whatever) are inferior.
*Don't get me wrong here*, I do know many excellent photographers using Nikon. Just in my very local environment things seem very screwed up in that sense that there are Nikon-fanatics on one side (you rarely see them taking pictures, you hardly see any of their images but they keep telling you how great their gear is) , and people who love photography and go out shooting with their Canons, Olys, alphas and whatever.

[end of rant] Sorry, but this upsets me from time to time :mrgreen:


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## Rayna' (Apr 22, 2007)

:hug::


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## usayit (Apr 22, 2007)

OMG..  I know exactly how you feel...  you mentioned a few gripes of mine.

Nikon is pushed fairly heavily in my area.  I used to travel to many camera shops in the area bulk purchasing used Canon equipment for resale (and personal use).  I was always referred to by that "Canon" guy.  I know they are joking but I kinda didn't like it.  Especially if it sparked a discussion with someone in the store.

I also shoot with Leica and to some extent I find those people a bit easier to deal with.  They internalize their feelings much like the Ferrari driver on the highway traveling below the speed limit.... nothing to prove.  My observation is that they won't get into a discussion about equipment unless you approach them.  I'm a bit different as I shoot with an Epson w/ attached Leica lens... some Leica people find that absolutely strange.  I find it refreshing.

I actually have been approached by people who see tripods are archaic.  One such fellow went up to me and said... ever heard of IS.  I say why yes... but I wanna look more professional...  hehehe lol.


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## PNA (Apr 22, 2007)

Nikon people do just to P*** you off, Alex. 

A suggestion: print out the word NIKON on some duct tape and tape it to your Cannon......then tell them it's a protype comming out later this year!!!!  :lmao: :lmao:


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## Alex_B (Apr 22, 2007)

usayit said:


> Nikon is pushed fairly heavily in my area.



Over here Nikon and Canon have about similar market shares when it comes to dSLRs.. I would even say Canon has the lead. But as said, the Nikon-owners waste their time by boasting about their brand while the Canon-owners go out and do photography. 

[EDIT: OK, since this line causes uneasy feelings with some people who took it out of the context of this thread: I am not generalizing here, I am just describing my local surroundings where it happens to be that way, I know that generally photographers of any brand can be like that.]

The Leica people over here are similar to what you mentioned. they boast only if you approach them, and by far less aggressive .. with them it is more the dreamy eyes when they talk about their brand


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## Alex_B (Apr 22, 2007)

PNA said:


> Nikon people do just to P*** you off, Alex.
> 
> A suggestion: print out the word NIKON on some duct tape and tape it to your Cannon......then tell them it's a protype comming out later this year!!!!  :lmao: :lmao:



Great idea 

I might just take a real Cannon and shoot them :mrgreen:

_



... again I have to say, this is all about my personal experience with friends, colleagues and the occasional strangers in shops and on the street. This is all not to be seen as a general statement regarding Nikon-shooters._


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## nabero (Apr 22, 2007)

"If you were going to spend that kind of money on a camera, why wouldn't you get a Nikon?  There's no way I would have paid 800$ for my Canon" --From a friend of mine after I bought my new camera (he uses a Canon p&s)


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## Torus34 (Apr 22, 2007)

It's been years since I even noticed the brand names on my gear.  It seems to make no difference in my prints, though.


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## Alex_B (Apr 22, 2007)

Torus34 said:


> It's been years since I even noticed the brand names on my gear.  It seems to make no difference in my prints, though.



That is because you don't print the brand name on your print, didn't you know? 


I guess those people I got upset about don't even print anyway


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## The_Traveler (Apr 22, 2007)

Alex_B said:


> But as said, the Nikon-owners waste their time by boasting about their brand while the Canon-owners go out and do photography.



I am hoping this statement is meant as a parody of the kind of silly self-justification that many of us practice.


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## fmw (Apr 22, 2007)

Alex, I'm still curious as to why you care.  I don't care at all what people think of my equipment and I don't care what kind of equipment they have.  What possible difference could it make?  I think you're worried about nothing.


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## Alex_B (Apr 22, 2007)

The_Traveler said:


> I am hoping this statement is meant as a parody of the kind of silly self-justification that many of us practice.



If you read my posts in this thread word by word, you know that I was referring my observation in my close surroundings (mainly colleagues and other people i know). And with respect to those few people (about 5 nikon, 5 canon) I am afraid this is no parody or anything, but it is shocking reality.

For other people the situation might be inverted, with the Canon people being a pain. I am not taqlking about global averages, but just about my personal experience here in this city.


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## Irminsul (Apr 22, 2007)

Torus34 said:


> It's been years since I even noticed the brand names on my gear. It seems to make no difference in my prints, though.


 
Which goes right to the point:  If any track-record/reputation-based "snobbery" is justified, then it would be Leica, I guess.  But I've never understood what justification there could be for thinking that a high-end Nikon is a professional camera and a high-end Canon isn't.    As you say, it makes no difference in the prints...


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## Alex_B (Apr 22, 2007)

fmw said:


> Alex, I'm still curious as to why you care.  I don't care at all what people think of my equipment and I don't care what kind of equipment they have.  What possible difference could it make?  I think you're worried about nothing.



that is why I put a smiley in there ... :mrgreen:

of course it does not hurt me deep inside, but it can be a pain if such people again and again try to draw you into which-brand-is-better discussions. I would like to talk with those people about photography (at least those which are not total strangers to me), but it seems impossible.


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## usayit (Apr 22, 2007)

I think some of it has to do with Technology which DSLRs now fall under.  People (at least here in the US) are obsessed with technology ( I should know as I work with a boat load of them ).  Their cars, pockets, attache cases are full of that stuff.  I know a couple of people that could have a discussion for hours on PDAs and cell phones.  Another couple of co workers that could talk your ears off about Audio Video stuff.

I used to work for HP (Unix Enterprise side of the business).  I can't tell you how many people would pull me aside to ask questions regarding printers, scanners, computers, PDAs and such.  It got so bad that I would make sure my work badge was in my pocket before heading out.


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## Don Simon (Apr 22, 2007)

I know exactly what you mean Alex. This sort of thing is all over the internet and it's irritating... but to experience it in "Real Life" like you describe must be even more annoying... that behaviour is really irrational; people don't normally wander up to your car window and say "You don't want one of these, you want a Ford", or approach you on the train just to say "Yeah I wouldn't use that phone... I only buy Samsungs". Photography may be a smaller niche but the idea of wandering up to someone just to criticise their equipment is really bizarre.

As for why you should care... well personally, I know I shouldn't. When this happens it doesn't make me question the value of my equipment or wish I had someone else's. But like I said, to me it seems so irrational... a little friendly competition between brand users is good, and comparing tests or reviews might be helpful to some... but to have someone go out of their way just to say "You have the wrong name on your camera", well yeah that's annoying. And like Alex says, often it isn't just the occasional person but lots of people a lot of the time.


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## Alex_B (Apr 22, 2007)

ZaphodB said:


> This sort of thing is all over the internet and it's irritating... but to experience it in "Real Life" like you describe must be even more annoying...



Exactly, you cannot click those people away with your mouse pointer ...



> people don't normally wander up to your car window and say "You don't want one of these, you want a Ford"



That is a good comparison and says it all


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## gmarquez (Apr 22, 2007)

Alex_B said:


> Why are there so many idiots in photography?  ...  looking "down" on others and aggressively telling them that other brands ... are inferior.




I'd have to agree, and not just about brand.  I'm always talkative with other photographers I meet while shooting.  Quite a few times other photographers act annoyed that I'm taking pictures in the same area that they are, as if their whole self worth is dependent on getting shots from that area, and I am somehow stealing from them by taking shots there as well.

I tend to shoot a lot by hand (composing, re-composing, trying different angles), and most of the hostility seems to come from people setting up their tripods and waiting for a certain event (sunset, usually).

It's usually in the form of me saying "hello, nice place to get a shot", and them grunting at me. 



Alex_B said:


> But as said, the Nikon-owners waste their time by boasting about their brand while the Canon-owners go out and do photography.



Isn't that a gross over generalization?

There are idiots in every group.


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## gmarquez (Apr 22, 2007)

ZaphodB said:


> people don't normally wander up to your car window and say "You don't want one of these, you want a Ford", or approach you on the train just to say "Yeah I wouldn't use that phone... I only buy Samsungs".



But they will make snide comments if you are using the "wrong" computer operating system (Mac OS vs. Windows), or the "wrong" audio playback device (iPod vs. almost anything else).

Apple even exploits this in it's television commercials by showing the Mac as a cool, casually dressed young man, and the PC as an older, glasses wearing overweight guy in a tired suit.

Global marketing is all about image.  Sell the "image", and make more $$$ (or Euros or Pounds Sterling, or...)


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## Alex_B (Apr 22, 2007)

gmarquez said:


> Isn't that a gross over generalization?
> 
> There are idiots in every group.



please read my threads fully! or read my reply to the traveler.

I said I am not generalizing at all. But I am just reporting my experience with my local people over here, where it happens to be divided in the ways i describe it. I have seen it on forums plenty of times
 that things are the other way round, just locally within the reach of my peer group, things are as they are ...


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## blackdoglab (Apr 22, 2007)

I have two camera stores that I go to.  My favorite (Lloyd's photo and digital in Manitowoc, WI), and one in Milwaukee whose name shall not be mentioned.  When in the unmentionable store, i feel like a poor relation with my Zenit.  The staff are Leica/Hassleblad/Nikon snobs of the worst sort.  Don't they realize that a camera is just a tool and that make matters not?


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## RedDevilUK (Apr 22, 2007)

well after reading online and speaking to photographers. i decided on a D80.
but still thought i would ask the shop owner what he reccomended... i told him i what i wanted to use it for etc, and wanted a good all rounder, just to see what he said.

first he recommended a Sony Cybershot W55 for £159
i told him i was willing to spend more for an SLR
he recomended a Sony Cybershot H5 £278
when i asked, "if money was no object what would you buy here"
... he showed me a Panasonic Lumix FZ50 £399

so it shows that its personal taste... 

by the way i own a Nikon...
*(RedDevilUK runs off quickly)*


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## table1349 (Apr 22, 2007)

Alex_B said:


> When I was setting up my tripod and camera for some long exposures on a busy street in the city recently, I was (of course) attracting some attention, some people just asking what I was doing, some wanting to be in the picture and some even thought they would be on TV :mrgreen: (guess the big lens shade, the somewhat more complicated tripod head and the large almost black ND filter mislead them in some way .. )
> 
> But one thing which really upset me was that I was approached
> by people who only walked up to me to see my gear, realise it is not Nikon and then tell me they would not want to have it because Nikon makes the best cameras in the world, with a stupid smile to punch his face for.
> ...



Grasshopper, 

You must clear your mind of such thoughts caused by the comments of others to acheive a true state of photographic Zen.  It is better to expose one frame of film rather than speak one thousand foolish words.  

Photograhy is a spirtual act of capturing life, emotion and truth.  The man that can capture a cricket in his hand is better off than the man with an empty cricket cage.  

So calm yourself grasshopper, close your eyes, clear your mind and quietly chant Kodachrome...Kodachrome...Kodachrome.  Bring photographic peace to your soul.  

And if that doesn't work, smack em up side the head with a wet heavy camera strap!


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## Seefutlung (Apr 22, 2007)

Alex-

It's frustrating at times, but those who place more importance on equipment than images ... are those with crappy images.

It's all the same stuff.  If you give a pro photog a similar level Canon or Nikon he/she will get the same shot.  You cannot find a significant difference between a Nikon image or a Canon image all things being relatively equal.  

In the old days of film only, Nikon was the 35mm SLR of choice (period).  Nikon only made one level of lens and camera ... and that level was the best they could make.  So to own a Nikon was a pinnacle thing .... it was a professional camera with professional lenses and that was all they made (the exception being the Nikkormat).  Canon came in late into the professional arena with their F1 series, built like a Russian car ... while the Nikon was more like a German car.

But, today, in the digital world, there isn't any significant differences between Canon and Nikon. So the next time someone make the comparison state:

1) "Man, you are just stupid", not politically correct or enduring but it will make you feel good (just make sure your monopod is within easy reach)
2) Just ignore them and think "Man. you're just stupid", unless she is terribly good looking in which case you agree and get her phone number for a discussion over some late night drinks on what Nikon to purchase.

There is probably a third option ... but I'm kinda stuck thinking about #2  ... lol

What's funny is that I belong to a somewhat loose and random association of photogs here in Los Angeles and those with Canon equipment are the better photogs ... and I think some of the Nikonians  kinda wish they had started out with Canon.

Gary


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## Alex_B (Apr 22, 2007)

RedDevilUK said:


> by the way i own a Nikon...
> *(RedDevilUK runs off quickly)*




heeee! I said more than once this is not a rat against the nikon user per-se ... just those around me who behave like total nerds


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## Alex_B (Apr 22, 2007)

Seefutlung said:


> 2) Just ignore them and think "Man. you're just stupid", unless she is terribly good looking in which case you agree and get her phone number for a discussion over some late night drinks on what Nikon to purchase.



unfortunately those nerds which I encountered are *all male*!! Female photographers are much less prone to this mental problem.. it seems from my personal statistics


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## Alex_B (Apr 22, 2007)

gryphonslair99 said:


> So calm yourself grasshopper, close your eyes, clear your mind and quietly chant Kodachrome...Kodachrome...Kodachrome.  Bring photographic peace to your soul.



hmm.. liking colour contrast I accidentally was chanting Velvia, Velvia 



> And if that doesn't work, smack em up side the head with a wet heavy camera strap!




will use the tripod instead


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## Alex_B (Apr 22, 2007)

I am amazed how much reaction my little short-lived rant caused


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## Seefutlung (Apr 22, 2007)

Alex_B said:


> unfortunately those nerds which I encountered are *all male*!! Female photographers are much less prone to this mental problem.. it seems from my personal statistics



Damn ... well that sorta frees my little cream cheese brain to reflect on option (3).

Gary


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## table1349 (Apr 22, 2007)

Alex_B said:


> hmm.. liking colour contrast I accidentally was chanting Velvia, Velvia
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You are learning Grasshopper.  Velvia will work if it clears you mind.

When you can snatch the lens cap from my hand, you will be ready to leave the photographic temple and go out into the world.  Remember, only use your tripod for good.:mrgreen:


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## DeepSpring (Apr 22, 2007)

The other day I was working around with my newly purchased 70-200f4 L and someone came up to me and asked if I was shooting a D80. 

I said "No, Canon makes the nice white lenses "


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## The_Traveler (Apr 22, 2007)

"Dear Mr. Picasso,

I want to be a great artist.  Can you tell me want kind of brushes and paint you use?"


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## Garbz (Apr 22, 2007)

Hahahah the differences though are so elementary. You'd be hard pressed finding a quality difference between the D200 and the 20D, or the 400D and the D80 etc. I doubt Nikon or Canon make the best gear (ok Canon do make the EOS1DmkII).

I choose Nikon because I had Nikon lenses donated to me years ago. It made financial sense. But I've said it on this forum a few times, it is not the camera that makes the photographer!


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## blackdoglab (Apr 22, 2007)

Now that I think about it...
I find myself becoming more and more ****ed off with folks who insist that digital is the only way to go or who assume that digital is completely and inheritly superior.  That kind of closed minded thinking is just as bad as camera snobbery.  Film and digital are only TOOLS!  Can't we learn to just get along?


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## table1349 (Apr 22, 2007)

blackdoglab said:


> Now that I think about it...
> I find myself becoming more and more ****ed off with folks who insist that digital is the only way to go or who assume that digital is completely and inheritly superior.  That kind of closed minded thinking is just as bad as camera snobbery.  Film and digital are only TOOLS!  Can't we learn to just get along?




No we can't.  Haven't you heard, it's the new cold war.


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## Alex_B (Apr 22, 2007)

seems my rant set free lots of similar frustration .. I am still amazed as I did not want to cause an avalanche


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## Ranger (Apr 22, 2007)

I havent noticed this on the street as I havent even recieve my Canon XT yet but when reading reviews on the internet I have noticed this greatly. But I think this is the same with everything. In the horse world some breed owners look down on other breed owners and in our school if you are wear Levi's you are looked down upon by people who wear Hollister and if you wear Hollister you are looked down upon by the people who wear Lucky, and if you wear Lucky you are looked down upon by the people who wear True Religion. Its everywhere it seems. 

But that is rude that people would actually come up to you in the streets and say that to you! Thats really unprofessional and immature! You need to come up with some good insults to throw back at them next time   !


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## blackdoglab (Apr 22, 2007)

Nobody on the street asks me questions about my camera; which is just how I like it.  Maybe I should go out more with my Yashica.  If only my Zenit were worthy of public controversy.


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## JDP (Apr 22, 2007)

I've run into my share of Canon fanatics too - mainly in the art world though. Never really realized just how many people owned Nikons around here until I go to certain events and it's littered with people and those bright yellow NIKON straps. 

I love my Nikon, but am going to upgrade, and actually considering Canon. Canon seems to handle low light better, less noise and such then Nikon.

Though switching platforms is probably just a pipe dream hehe


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## Seefutlung (Apr 22, 2007)

JDP said:


> ...
> I love my Nikon, but am going to upgrade, and actually considering Canon. Canon seems to handle low light better, less noise and such then Nikon.
> 
> Though switching platforms is probably just a pipe dream hehe



I know a wedding photog who just dumped his Nikons and Fuji S-3 for Canon because of the noise.  It seems all those Sony CCD sensors really suck above ISO 800.

It will be painful if you stay and painful if you switch ... so just switch ... but before you do play with a Canon at higher ISOs to see if its worth all the pain (and the day you switch Nikon starts making their own CMOS sensor with better noise control than Canon...)

Gary


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## craig (Apr 22, 2007)

Try not to let such petty things upset you. Certainly brands carry their own reputation. Photography is an art that can be taken on many different levels. Not like they are idiots. More like they have a different approach. It all comes down to the final image. The gear is a mere pawn in the game. 

Now the question is are you a closet Nikon fan? And yeah. The folks at Magnum and or Vanity Fair shoot Nikon. "Just the way it is homes".

Love & Bass


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## Aquarium Dreams (Apr 22, 2007)

I hate talking shop with people on the street.  It either goes like this:

Them:  "So what kind of camera do you use?"
Me:  "Canon Xti."
Them:  "____" Fill in the blank with something more expensive.  Otherwise, why would they have asked in the first place?
Me:  "That's a nice camera."  Duh.  End of conversation.  The other person walks away, no doubt sexually aroused.

Or

Them:  "What are you taking a picture of?"
Me:  "That bridge/building/window,etc."
Them:  "I like taking pictures too."
Me:  "Oh?"
Them:  "Yeah.  I was thinking about taking pictures today."
Me:  "Oh?"
Them:  "So what are you taking pictures for?"
Me:  "It's a hobby."
Them:  "___" Insert a story about this one time they used a camera in college.
Me:  "That's so nice."
Them:  "So I was thinking about taking pictures..."
Me:  "You should take pictures."

The first couple times I couldn't believe how long I let the conversation go on until saying, "Well, I'm losing light, you have a nice day, nice talking to you, good bye."  I'm beginning to see how being a snob would have the advantage of making everyone leave me in peace while I'm shooting.  However, in a small town, you have to handle these things a little more delicately.  People are usually nice, and they just want to tell their story, and then they move on.  I'm pretty introverted, though, and can only take so much memory dumping from strangers before I start feeling physically ill.

I haven't yet had someone walk up to me just to criticize my gear. A good response would be asking them where their camera is, because I bet they aren't out shooting if they're so busy roaming the streets with a measuring tape. Or you could settle it mano y mano, shoot out on the bridge, high noon, best print wins.


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## fightheheathens (Apr 22, 2007)

i've had similar experience to this cept it usually involves the Film vs Digital debate. 
People would see my big lens and lens hood with the various filters and the large tripod and come over to inspect my equiptment only to find out that not only is it film, but also a pentax. At this point they would usually go out of their way to tell me how much better digital is or that film is dead, and then proceed to ask me when i was going to switch to digital. That is if they didnt start to ask me why i shot pentax and not Canon or Nikon....


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## DeepSpring (Apr 22, 2007)

I've gotten some remarks on the film/ digital thing.

It seems whenever I am shooting my film rebel k2 people ask to see the pictures and I tell them it's film so they can't. When I have my xt out after I take a picture of someone I often just turn the camera around to show them and I get the "oh wow its digital???"


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## Aquarium Dreams (Apr 22, 2007)

All these comments remind me that I really need to learn some ASL.. or Swahili.  Probably Swahili.  I think more people know a little ASL than a little Swahili, and the sound of a foreign language can so intimidate the average American joe, while a mute person is just an invitation for them to speak more.


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## gmarquez (Apr 23, 2007)

Aquarium Dreams said:


> I'm pretty introverted, though, and can only take so much memory dumping from strangers before I start feeling physically ill.



Off topic, but I think that's the low level autism some of us seem to have (believe me, I know it well).  I am jovial and talkative on the outside, but on the inside, I'm expending vast amounts of psychic energy to keep up the conversation.  It can be exhausting.

Hmmmm, maybe THAT'S why other photogs just grunt a "hello" at me...they are borderline autistic too.


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## Mike_E (Apr 23, 2007)

Alex, just tell them it's a rental while your (insert insanely expensive camera here) is in the shop.

Barring that, you could do the rebadge thing only I'd try the radioactive sticker, or maybe a bio-hazard.  

People who use possessions to make up for a lack of personality are merely speed bumps on the road of life, and should be hit at about 35mph!


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## Seefutlung (Apr 23, 2007)

Mike_E said:


> ...
> 
> Barring that, you could do the rebadge thing only I'd try the radioactive sticker, or maybe a bio-hazard.   ...



Actually the rebadging idea is pretty good ... I had a road bike that I removed all the original insignias ... and I had these BMW decals ... looked pretty good and nobody made negative remarks .... BMW hits too close to home so maybe Apple or Lexus or NASA ... Colnago ... Lego

Gary


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## Mike_E (Apr 23, 2007)

Yeah, the rebadge thing would work, although I would suggest a brand name that was totally other.  Something like, oh I don't know, Frigidaire?  It's not like you have ANY reason to be embarrassed shooting with any camera -including a Campbell's soup can!

Think about the radioactive sticker though, If they're being annoying you could tell them it's a radio active lens and have they had an x-ray recently because you can't be held responsible... .

And if they think the chance of being Radioactively Contaminated is cool, well then, you have just found a New Model! YEA!      LOLOLOLOLOL (<maniacal laughter)

mike


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## JDP (Apr 23, 2007)

Seefutlung said:


> I know a wedding photog who just dumped his Nikons and Fuji S-3 for Canon because of the noise. It seems all those Sony CCD sensors really suck above ISO 800.
> 
> It will be painful if you stay and painful if you switch ... so just switch ... but before you do play with a Canon at higher ISOs to see if its worth all the pain (and the day you switch Nikon starts making their own CMOS sensor with better noise control than Canon...)
> 
> Gary


 
That's the funny thing, they are virtually the same sensor - I think it has to do more with Nikon firmware vs Canon firmware. I recently switched on long exposure noise reduction in my Nikon, and it seems like it helps on everything - even f/1.8 50mm 1/50th exposure shots @ ISO 1600. 

About switching, yes it would be painful - but I'm about to make a big upgrade, and want to get the best set for ME, I don't really care who's name is on the badge or how bright yellow the name is on the neck hehe.

I might end up asking a bunch of Canon Qs later on, like I don't even know what would be equiv to a Nikon D200, I'm tempted to stay where I'm at, mainly because I know it all inside out.

Then again, I got into photography because I didn't know anything - if I would have seen what went into it a couple years later, maybe I would have just built a new PC instead hehe!


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## usayit (Apr 23, 2007)

JDP said:


> That's the funny thing, they are virtually the same sensor - I think it has to do more with Nikon firmware vs Canon firmware.



Canon's DSLRs are outfitted with their own CMOS chip.  Nikons and virtually the the rest of the market is outfitted from CCDs from Sony.  Smaller market share goes to Kodak.  I think its a combination of CMOS as well as firmware processing that gives Canon a nice control over noise.


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## Alex_B (Apr 23, 2007)

OK, I will relable my gear saying "Tribute - St Austell Brewery"


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## The_Traveler (Apr 23, 2007)

I think that any of these cameras are better than I will ever be as a photographer and it comes down to which of the cameras you prefer from an ergonometric or other characteristic.

Arguing about which is better - for any reason - is upsmanship and as silly as arguing about cars or football teams. 

I typically put black tape over the brand on my camera and on the lens covers and I use  a no-brand neck strap. No one has yet to ask me what brand the camera is.

Take good pictures and shut up. Having Brand X won't make them that much different - and if it does - so what.


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## Seefutlung (Apr 23, 2007)

JDP said:


> That's the funny thing, they are virtually the same sensor -



Don't think so Canon uses a CMOS and the D200 is CCD.  I just think Canon's low noise is a combo of CMOS design (large pixels not cramped together) and finely tuned firmware.  

The D200 is a very capable camera ... unless you routinely shoot at elevated ISOs ,,, like nighttime sports where it's necessary to crank up the ISO for an action stopping shutter speed ... then I wouldn't fret over Canon's better noise control for the rare shot or two.

Gary


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## PNA (Apr 23, 2007)

I have to go along with the Philistine......

Just for Alex: if you don't have a Nikon I guess _*anything*_ will do......


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## Alex_B (Apr 23, 2007)

it is fun wo watch this beast of a thread develop its own life 

*leans back, sips from his glass and relaxes*


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## PNA (Apr 23, 2007)

Alex_B said:


> it is fun wo watch this beast of a thread develop its own life
> 
> *leans back, sips from his glass and relaxes*


 
Hopefully scotch.........!!!!


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## JDP (Apr 23, 2007)

Seefutlung said:


> The D200 is a very capable camera ... unless you routinely shoot at elevated ISOs
> Gary


 
Damn, why'd you have to go and say that. My camera rarely leaves ISO 1600 - I wish I shot in less low light situations, I could save money on glass and stop getting those pricey f/2.8 zooms!

Maybe I'll research Canon some more. I'm willing to drop 3-4k down. I need a system comparable to what I planned on getting with my Nikon - originally was planning on a D200, vertical grip, and a 17-50mm Tamron f/2.8 (Of which for that I'd just have to specifiy 'gimme the canon mount instead of the nikon one now')


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## Iron Flatline (Apr 23, 2007)

JDP said:


> That's the funny thing, they are virtually the same sensor - I think it has to do more with Nikon firmware vs Canon firmware.


No, that is incorrect. Nikon uses Sony sensors, Canon makes their own. You may have confused brands here.


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## Seefutlung (Apr 23, 2007)

JDP said:


> Damn, why'd you have to go and say that. My camera rarely leaves ISO 1600 - I wish I shot in less low light situations, I could save money on glass and stop getting those pricey f/2.8 zooms!
> 
> Maybe I'll research Canon some more. I'm willing to drop 3-4k down.



On Ebay you'll probably get more than what you paid ,,, but seriously ,, go find a friend with a Canon or a camera club and compare apples to apples ... RAW to RAW images.  The 5D has one of the best noise control at high ISOs of any camera ... but at $2600 to $2800, I think it's over priced ... but its a great camera.

Please, don't take my word for it ... go do an apples to apples test and see for yourself.  The Canon 30D would be the D200 equal in price and performance.

Gary


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## Alex_B (Apr 23, 2007)

my feeling is that for each Canon there is not a Nikon equivalent in terms of price and quality, and for each Nikon there is not a Canon equivalent in terms of price and quality.

If you climb up the ladder to me it looks like alternating ..., Nikon, Canon, Nikon, Canon, Nikon, ... and so on.


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## RacePhoto (Apr 23, 2007)

fightheheathens said:


> i've had similar experience to this cept it usually involves the Film vs Digital debate.




What debate? Film is dead. (HUMOR ALERT!) 

If this is a pet peeve list, more than a grumpy whine, let me add a few.

Professional cameras are Black not Silver. I never understood how the color on the outside made a difference on the pictures?

I mean no personal offense or generalized attribution, it's just that I know two of these people, and a bunch more who are one or the other. They have Nikon cameras and can't stop telling me why their  brand is better than my Canon. The same two guys also are Mac users and whenever I say the word "computer" have to point out that Mac does it better and the software comes with it free. :thumbdown:

For all I know they may be right. But please stop hitting me with that brick. I heard you the first dozen times. (and ignored you) 

What equipment do I have? Isn't that a personal question? 



> "Dear Mr. Picasso,
> 
> I want to be a great artist.  Can you tell me want kind of brushes and paint you use?"


I think that summed it up just fine. Although camera people, like computer people, like to Geek talk about equipment. It's the people who believe that a more expensive pen will make them write better or spell better, are missing the same point.

As for the forums, I try to remember that at one time I knew nothing and asked alot of questions. People were usually kind enough to answer and be helpful, as long as I listened. I try to share as much as I can with a positive attitude.

I can pretty much ignore all of the above and all that's been in this thread. Maybe I've been guilty of the same at some time. That would be, being an equipment, tech device or appliance snob. :mrgreen:

But the one thing that gets me, and it happens in day to day meetings and work as well, is when someone asks a question, and gets an answer, and then says "well I'm going to do it my way anyway." because I just wasted time talking to them, answering the question, and their mind was already made up! It wasn't a question, but an attempt to solicit agreement or affirmation for their idea.

_hi, I'm going to be a professional photographer, starting next week. I don't own a camera, but I want to buy a Hasselblad H3D-31 and a dozen alienbees. Is this the way to start out?_

*No you should start at the beginning, not the end, get some foundations, read books, take classes and get experience and then grow into your more professional environment.*

_Thanks, I'm buying the camera tomorrow and I ordered the lights yesterday. I need to look professional to get more work._



I worked as a "professional" musician for over 40 years. One job a guy came up and said "you're too loud. Couldn't you just turn a few of those Amps. off?"

One agent said I needed to buy a bigger drum set. Nothing wrong with the music, just that I needed a bigger drum set. (even worse, I did it, for image. It didn't make me rich or famous or a better musician.)

Taking video: "Does that thing do sound or just movies?"

Digital Camera: "Can you get prints from that thing too, or does it only show pictures on the computer?" 

Daytime fill flash... "do you know your flash is going off?" Nah, I usually shut my eyes right before I take a shot. :er:

#1, saved for last. "Doesn't that telephoto lens weigh a lot?" Not a problem, I lift weights during the week so I can hold up a camera on the weekends.


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## RacePhoto (Apr 23, 2007)

Thanks for asking, 
I feel much better 
now that I got that 
out of my system.

​


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## mortallis288 (Apr 23, 2007)

noone really says anything about nikon and cannon here. i would say its more of a canon talking down upon nikon if anything


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## Alex_B (Apr 23, 2007)

mortallis288 said:


> noone really says anything about nikon and cannon here. i would say its more of a canon talking down upon nikon if anything



I think experience will vary ... depending on your personal environment.


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## blackdoglab (Apr 23, 2007)

> i've had similar experience to this cept it usually involves the Film vs Digital debate.
> People would see my big lens and lens hood with the various filters and the large tripod and come over to inspect my equiptment only to find out that not only is it film, but also a pentax. At this point they would usually go out of their way to tell me how much better digital is or that film is dead, and then proceed to ask me when i was going to switch to digital. That is if they didnt start to ask me why i shot pentax and not Canon or Nikon....


 
I got a similar reaction once at a Volkswagen club show.  I was talking to a fellow selling some prints and I began asking about what kind of slr to buy (this was when I was a complete noob).  He glared at me and gave me the standard lecture that "digital is better, film is dead".  I should've left then and admired a Karmann Ghia, but I was persistent.  I asked him about developing my own black and white and was told to "convert color to greyscale in photoshop".  Boy was I dense (but naieve) and that guy was no use.


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## mortallis288 (Apr 23, 2007)

Alex_B said:


> I think experience will vary ... depending on your personal environment.



i am never in the streets though, but at school it is mostly pentax k1000s, leicas, and some older canon and nikons. i have a n55 and i get looked down upon for having a "new camera" i also worked my ass off to get it. But it isn't the camera as everyone has said


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## usayit (Apr 23, 2007)

mortallis288 said:


> at school it is mostly pentax k1000s, leicas, and some older canon and nikons.



Do what I do....

Shoot with the nice stuff when out doing assignments.

But

bring the Spotmatic to school. 



Leica? at school? wow.. thats some serious cash for someone at school studying photography.


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## mortallis288 (Apr 23, 2007)

i am pretty sure i saw a leica, mabye not but it started with a le


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## blackdoglab (Apr 23, 2007)

Impress your friends, get a FED.


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## mortallis288 (Apr 23, 2007)

the whole class was amazed by my photography teachers holga. they were all like oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo aaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh that is soooooooooooooooooooooo coooooool!


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## DSLR noob (Apr 23, 2007)

Here, the day you post an image on the internet with no hints as to what camera you own, and a bunch of strangers look at it and say "OMG this would have been so much better if shot with a Nikon" , is the day you should be worried about your brand. Until then, just smile and ask to see their work(the people in your area). As for my area, I see soooooooo many Canons, then again we have a big factory, building thing. I've only driven by it, never been inside, I imagine if gives the area some sort of Canon advantage.


Hell tell some people after they see the images it was shot with a 39MP Hasselblad with a Carl Ziess lens. It doesn't matter, the photographer makes the picture, the camera just records it.


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## Aquarium Dreams (Apr 23, 2007)

mortallis288 said:


> the whole class was amazed by my photography teachers holga. they were all like oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo aaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh that is soooooooooooooooooooooo coooooool!





I'm sorry you're stuck in such an environment, but it sounds like it might be fun to screw with them.  Try rebadging with your camera with "Bakelite" and watch their minds explode.


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## mortallis288 (Apr 24, 2007)

lol


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## blackdoglab (Apr 24, 2007)

What about an Argus vs. Ansco/Agfa debate or a Kiev vs. Zenit vs. Lomo argument?


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## xfloggingkylex (Apr 24, 2007)

no offense to nikon users, but how could someone look at a full frame digital camera and want a nikon?

But I know what you mean, shooting with a "reject" brand, I feel the elitism in the photography world.


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## gmarquez (Apr 24, 2007)

xfloggingkylex said:


> no offense to nikon users, but how could someone look at a full frame digital camera and want a nikon?



Easy, I look at the price tag.    I'm such a cheap b@$tard.  :mrgreen:


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## xfloggingkylex (Apr 24, 2007)

gmarquez said:


> Easy, I look at the price tag.  I'm such a cheap b@$tard. :mrgreen:


 
well yeah, but would you really look at a 5d and act like it wasn't an amazing camera?  I'd never buy a digital hasselblad, but if I saw one I wouldn't say, oh, it medium format, nevermind.


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## gmarquez (Apr 24, 2007)

xfloggingkylex said:


> I'd never buy a digital hasselblad, but if I saw one I wouldn't say, oh, it medium format, nevermind.




True dat!


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## benjikan (Apr 25, 2007)

Alex_B said:


> When I was setting up my tripod and camera for some long exposures on a busy street in the city recently, I was (of course) attracting some attention, some people just asking what I was doing, some wanting to be in the picture and some even thought they would be on TV :mrgreen: (guess the big lens shade, the somewhat more complicated tripod head and the large almost black ND filter mislead them in some way .. )
> 
> But one thing which really upset me was that I was approached
> by people who only walked up to me to see my gear, realise it is not Nikon and then tell me they would not want to have it because Nikon makes the best cameras in the world, with a stupid smile to punch his face for.
> ...



Recently I changed platforms after over 20 years of brand loyalty to a well known camera manufacturer.  When I switched, my status as a photographer did not change.   I didn't shoot with less competence and am still producing images that are being published.  So not using C&N does not equate to one not being "Pro".  It is a choice that one makes based on specific criteria.  No more, no less...

Ben


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## THORHAMMER (Apr 26, 2007)

didnt those bast&rds kick you off of a well known forum for switching ?

or am i thinking of someone else.


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## Don Simon (Apr 26, 2007)

Dpreview booted him out, maybe not specifically for switching but also because Dpreview regularly bans people for absolutely no logical reason.


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## THORHAMMER (Apr 26, 2007)

I thought it was mysteriously right after he started posting about how much he liked his new setup... hhhmmmm 

thats pretty messed up ....

They can constrew the non-promotion thing to kill you if your talking about equipment ??? 

I really hope we never get like that here, its great the way it is !!!!


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## xfloggingkylex (Apr 27, 2007)

THORHAMMER said:


> I thought it was mysteriously right after he started posting about how much he liked his new setup... hhhmmmm
> 
> thats pretty messed up ....
> 
> ...


 
unless this website gets bought out (which the members wont let happen, if forced to sell the site I hope Chase would consider selling it to another member/mod, and I'd be more than happy to donate to keep it privately owned), it will never become the product pushing website that DPreview is.


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## Alex_B (Apr 27, 2007)

i agree .... this is the only photography site i actually stayed on


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## blackdoglab (Apr 27, 2007)

This is the only forum I've been on where I've felt comfortable and open.


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## Aquarium Dreams (Apr 27, 2007)

blackdoglab said:


> This is the only forum I've been on where I've felt comfortable and open.



Ditto.  I knew there was something special about this place.


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## blackdoglab (Apr 28, 2007)

It's a place where you can find folks as strange as you are.  O.k. so I'm speaking for myself here, but I've never been snubbed, lectured, or met any ken rockwell types here.


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## Ribber (Apr 28, 2007)

Alex_B said:


> [end of rant] Sorry, but this upsets me from time to time :mrgreen:



When I shot with my compact digital, I never once had someone look at me funny. On my very first outing with my SLR, I was snubbed! At first, I was a little offended, even lost some of my enthusiasm for my pending shooting time... but as the day progressed I realized that I shouldn't be feeling bad for myself, rather I should be feeling bad for the guy who judged me by my gear.

I read a quote on another forum... "Fanboyism is a neurosis, get help!"


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## smyth (Apr 28, 2007)

I think it's fine to be passionate about a brand or whatever, so long as you don't push it on to other people, especially strangers. I mean I might say to a friend "ipods suck, get a creative" semi jokingly, but I would never walk up to someone on the street listening to their ipod, yank those silly white ear buds out and say "ipods are crap, buy a real mp3 player"

anyways, i'm a Nikon fan myself, though I would never discredit any of the other major DSLRs out there. Except for sigma, i mean what the hell. I'm just joking...kind of.

p.s. what do you shoot Alex?


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## Alex_B (Apr 29, 2007)

smyth said:


> p.s. what do you shoot Alex?




I shoot Agfa 







... oh, and there is some half plate and full plate cameras on my shelves as well.



OK, just kidding, those are all retired cameras, one even from before 1900, which I might reactivate one day if I find the time, but my active shooting is mainly Canon 35mm, both film and digital.


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## blackdoglab (Apr 29, 2007)

Hey, it's an 80 megapixel camera!


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## brighteyesphotos (Apr 29, 2007)

mortallis288 said:


> the whole class was amazed by my photography teachers holga. they were all like oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo aaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh that is soooooooooooooooooooooo coooooool!


 
*snort* When I tell people I have a Holga among my cameras, they look at me like I have two heads. "Holga?" Yeah, a plastic medium format camera. It's fun to play with. I may just have to take it out soon to play with again. 

I don't fall into the Canon vs Nikon debate here. I shoot Sony. But I run into the same thing from time to time. I get a lot of why sony? why not Canon or Nikon? I tell them that when I got it, the price was right, I am able to use my Minotla lens and by being familiar with Minolta's cameras, I'm already ahead on the learning curve. Now if I switched to Nikon, I would have to learn that camera not to mention buying all new lenses unless there's a converter mount out there somewhere. I tend to get some comments about how they didn't know Sony made a DSRL camera. To me, it's not the brand, it's the photographer. My area is dominated by Nikon users. The majority of the customers I get in my store are Nikon users. I do get Canon as well but it's mostly Nikon. If I ever switch platforms (which I am seriously considering for the near future) I'm still not sure who I would use. I get to check out both brands at work and I still can't figure out who I like better. I wish the owner would hurry up with his Sony application and get Sony in the store.


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## Alex_B (Apr 29, 2007)

happened to me again today that i attracted a member of the my-brand-is-superior-club. I was just sitting there talking to someone. when he approached (since he could see I had a lot of camera gear with me, that made him curious) .. until he saw my neckstrap with the wrong brand name on it and his face changed from curious to .. well, cannot find nice words for it  .... and he walked away again.

part of this I personally could not see, since I was not looking in his direction ... but this was the way the person I talked to described it to me.


this is a silly world  ... the downside is, that I did not take a single shot today... wrong mood or maybe just a lack of interesting things around me, the light was not really good either ...


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## xfloggingkylex (Apr 29, 2007)

It's going to be fun when I start walking around town with my pentax kit.  I'm sure I'll get it from everyone I meet.  "why would you choose pentax?"  I do feel bad for people who dont understand that each brand has great selling points, and just because one brand seems great to you it doesn't mean I see their positives as positives.  I'm waiting for someone to say I should shoot nikon or canon so I can use VR/IS lenses


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## Alex_B (Apr 29, 2007)

xfloggingkylex said:


> and just because one brand seems great to you it doesn't mean I see their positives as positives.



Well actually I quite like this person's brand who approached me today ... I just did not like his attitude


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## DSLR noob (Apr 29, 2007)

I like you gear Alex. As a fellow Canonite I know that it is a quality product that you shoot. 

Does that help?


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## Alex_B (Apr 29, 2007)

DSLR noob said:


> Does that help?



thanks 

but I am not asking people to comfort me ... I do not feel bad, just I wonder and report, that is all


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