# how long to keep client gallery up



## Shadowbox (Aug 17, 2011)

Hello all, 

I am wondering if there is a standard length of time a client gallery can be left up? I am nowhere near ready to charge for my photos, but I am creating my business outline and want to begin branding now while I am still learning so I have a good solid base when the time does come. I've looked for the standard but can't seem to find anything so I'm guessing this is up to photographer discretion and what it says on the contract. I'd like to not have my site cluttered with 100's of galleries (presumably years from now once I have a client base) but I can't be positive what a client expects either as far as length of access. Thanks


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## MissCream (Aug 17, 2011)

Are you putting the online gallery in the price of your pictures or is it just for proofing?


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## SabrinaO (Aug 17, 2011)

Keep it up for a short amount of time. The longer you keep it up the longer they have the opportunity to decide "do I really want this shot as a print?" Basically you want them to feel a little sense of urgency. Plus I don't think you would want to wait around for weeks to a month on them choosing proofs for finalization (if you are doing it this way)


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## Shadowbox (Aug 17, 2011)

Thank you Sabrina  LOVE your avi pic, so cute. I plan on doing prints, I am not going to be one of those people who provides all rights to the photos on a disc, I made my mind up about that!


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## Big Mike (Aug 17, 2011)

Ideally, the shorter the time...the better.  You don't want to have all those galleries on your site and you don't want to wait so long for orders to come in.  Since you're working out your plan, I'd suggest starting with a short length of time...say a week or two.  Tell the clients that they have to order within that time.  The idea is to 'light a fire under them' so they order prints while everything is fresh in their minds and the emotional factor is present.  The longer you leave it up, the less emotion is involved and the lower your orders are likely to be.  But to be fair, there are those who just need a bit of time to save up the money.

To take this a step further, a better technique for sales, is to bring the clients into a sales area and have them view the images in large format...a very big TV or projected onto a wall/screen.  The period to buy prints starts and ends in that session...so there is a sense of urgency.  Combine that with the emotions of seeing the photos for the first time (large and with appropriate music) and you have a recipe for big sales.  

Of course, you could always give the clients the option to keep an on-line gallery open longer, but since this is likely to cost you sales, you could charge for it.  Some might choose to pay and some might become urgent to purchase prints sooner.

Another thing to think about is archiving the photos.  Most photographer will tend to keep their client's photos forever.  This means that you'd have to save the digital files and have a redundancy plan in place.  For example, you might burn them onto discs (not just on hard drives) and you might consider an off-site back-up location or maybe a fire/water proof safe.  Either way, as a minimum, you'll want to have them stored on at least two different drives, in case one craps out on you.
If you have a lot of clients (and/or shoot a lot of photos) this can get to be a big task.  

One photographer I know, tells his clients that he will archive their photos for one year...and after that, they must pay a yearly fee, otherwise the photos get deleted.


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## SabrinaO (Aug 17, 2011)

No problem! I would love not have to provide CD's... But all the photogs around here do and that's what people want around here. But I only provide a set amount. Most of the time my clients order their set amount for cd, and I get sales in prints too because I take a lot of shots each session!


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## brandibell (Aug 17, 2011)

SabrinaO said:
			
		

> Keep it up for a short amount of time. The longer you keep it up the longer they have the opportunity to decide "do I really want this shot as a print?" Basically you want them to feel a little sense of urgency. Plus I don't think you would want to wait around for weeks to a month on them choosing proofs for finalization (if you are doing it this way)



Don't make them feel too rushed though. If they are too rushed they may not order as much as they normally would, and if you rush them too much they may feel as if you don't care. Leave it a reasonable amount of time so they feel comfortable in the decisions they are making.


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## SabrinaO (Aug 17, 2011)

Big Mike said:


> Ideally, the shorter the time...the better.  You don't want to have all those galleries on your site and you don't want to wait so long for orders to come in.  Since you're working out your plan, I'd suggest starting with a short length of time...say a week or two.  Tell the clients that they have to order within that time.  The idea is to 'light a fire under them' so they order prints while everything is fresh in their minds and the emotional factor is present.  The longer you leave it up, the less emotion is involved and the lower your orders are likely to be.  But to be fair, there are those who just need a bit of time to save up the money.To take this a step further, a better technique for sales, is to bring the clients into a sales area and have them view the images in large format...a very big TV or projected onto a wall/screen.  The period to buy prints starts and ends in that session...so there is a sense of urgency.  Combine that with the emotions of seeing the photos for the first time (large and with appropriate music) and you have a recipe for big sales.  Of course, you could always give the clients the option to keep an on-line gallery open longer, but since this is likely to cost you sales, you could charge for it.  Some might choose to pay and some might become urgent to purchase prints sooner.Another thing to think about is archiving the photos.  Most photographer will tend to keep their client's photos forever.  This means that you'd have to save the digital files and have a redundancy plan in place.  For example, you might burn them onto discs (not just on hard drives) and you might consider an off-site back-up location or maybe a fire/water proof safe.  Either way, as a minimum, you'll want to have them stored on at least two different drives, in case one craps out on you.If you have a lot of clients (and/or shoot a lot of photos) this can get to be a big task.  One photographer I know, tells his clients that he will archive their photos for one year...and after that, they must pay a yearly fee, otherwise the photos get deleted.


God... I love you!!


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## brandibell (Aug 17, 2011)

. Sorry typo stupid iPhone lol


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## SabrinaO (Aug 17, 2011)

brandibell said:


> SabrinaO said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I currently give them 2 weeks but I'm thinking about shortening it to one. I still think that's more than enough time to choose their photos.


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## brandibell (Aug 17, 2011)

SabrinaO said:
			
		

> I currently give them 2 weeks but I'm thinking about shortening it to one. I still think that's more than enough time to choose their photos.



I think one/two weeks is reasonable.


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## Shadowbox (Aug 17, 2011)

SabrinaO said:


> No problem! I would love not have to provide CD's... But all the photogs around here do and that's what people want around here. But I only provide a set amount. Most of the time my clients order their set amount for cd, and I get sales in prints too because I take a lot of shots each session!



I definitely did not mean that snobbishly. Everyone around here does the same with photo CDs, well where I live the standard seems to be a disc with exclusive rights of all pics from the session! (for $50). lol. 

I want to really stand out as being different from the norm, and I think the clientele will be easier to work with going this route. 

The thing I noticed is doing free shoots for my own practice, and I have so much to learn (so so so much) is that they never stop demanding more, no matter how much you give. So not only do I drive 30 minutes each way, but I provide two hours of photo taking, edit the photos and can send to them online they also want them on CD .. oh but not just ONE CD.. no no no, they need five copies, so they can give to all their friends and family to make their own prints - and then another session on top of that, hahaha. And hey, I can't complain, it's practice for me but it definitely has shed light on what type of people I'll be working with if I were to enter the industry at bottom rates. 

Also a lot of people around here have been doing professional photography for a few years and charge $50 and that includes the full shoot and then the cd of pics. It seems very saturated and underpaid in my area. Is this the going rate in most cities? 

In my current job, the more elite and prestigious I make myself appear (even if I am not) the higher quality of clients I attract. I am taking this philosophy with me into photography. While I admit I should not be charging for photos yet, I love marketing and making business plans so I just can't stop myself from setting up the backend of things. 

Thanks for the suggestions Big Mike and brandibell.


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## tirediron (Aug 17, 2011)

For weddings, I have 90 days specified in the contract (to allow lots of time for honeymoons and all the other things that invariably come up with weddings), for portraits, 30 days.  The reality is that they tend to stay up a lot longer than that because I'm horribly bad about website 'house-keeping'.


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## Big Mike (Aug 17, 2011)

> Also a lot of people around here have been doing professional photography for a few years and charge $50 and that includes the full shoot and then the cd of pics. It seems very saturated and underpaid in my area. Is this the going rate in most cities?
> 
> In my current job, the more elite and prestigious I make myself appear (even if I am not) the higher quality of clients I attract. I am taking this philosophy with me into photography. While I admit I should not be charging for photos yet, I love marketing and making business plans so I just can't stop myself from setting up the backend of things.



Sadly, there are 'photographers' everywhere are undervaluing the industry by charging too little.  It hurts the whole industry...but it mostly affects other photographers to cater to the lower end of the market.  Most can get away with this because they can afford to run an unsustainable business (they only do it part time etc.)  
But if you (or they) sit down and work out a business plan, they would easily see that a business model like that will quickly fail....unless they can use the Wal-mart/McDonald's model and replace quality with quantity.  

The photographers (or any business person) who can successfully target the higher end of the market, is much less affected by things like this.  Plus, they can usually do less work for more money, which sounds like a good idea to me.


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## Shadowbox (Aug 17, 2011)

Which is exactly why I am working on my plan now Big Mike! I want to be able to cater to the higher end of the market. I need to produce quality photos of course so how does one break into the market as a beginner without selling themselves short?! I was thinking about providing a 'discount' rate in the beginning and slowly raising prices over time as my skill level and reputation increases.


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## MissCream (Aug 17, 2011)

I lost 3 weddings this week because I don't offer a CD. 3 effing weddings.


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## BNHPhotography (Aug 17, 2011)

Shadowbox said:
			
		

> Which is exactly why I am working on my plan now Big Mike! I want to be able to cater to the higher end of the market. I need to produce quality photos of course so how does one break into the market as a beginner without selling themselves short?! I was thinking about providing a 'discount' rate in the beginning and slowly raising prices over time as my skill level and reputation increases.



Being picky with who you use as beginner clients will bring in a lot of people! If Sally down the street is THE high school cheerleader and needs/wants pictures taken of her take them! She will show them to her friends, family, etc. then you will start getting emails/phone calls   just know what you're going to specialize in and try to market yourself to those people.  If you provide quality work people will usually find you


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## Shadowbox (Aug 17, 2011)

I am using wordpress so I was thinking a private gallery for each client, and they have the option to either inform me directly which prints they want and pay via cash/check or they can purchase the prints via the gallery with a paypal button. I am hoping this method is efficient and easy to use and professional. I am also open to doing as mike said and proofing the pics in person.

Ooops that was in response to MissCreams question.


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## g-fi (Aug 17, 2011)

I strongly advise against starting out low and trying to raise your prices later. This rarely works. You will end up with those bargain clients who want everything for nothing and the high end clients will be put off by your low rates. You have to view yourself as being worth more than the $50/CD photographers, otherwise you are going to be stuck competing for the bottom of the barrel. You don't want to attract clients who are afraid of paying a lot for their portraits, you want clients who are willing to invest in the end product. the only way to do that is to market yourself as the best.

For weddings, I do 30 day online proofing for family members and friends who are looking to buy proofs. For portraits, 14 days for family members/friends, and for clients ALL of my proofing is done in person. It's really the only way to maximize your print sales. You want to be able to show them their gorgeous photos in the best setting possible and have on hand your album samples, your canvas samples, and the selections of different papers you offer the prints in. If they can hold something in their hands, and see their pictures larger than life, they are more likely to make a larger order. 

Now, keep in mind that your proofing time should be considered as part of your working hours, and your rates should be enough that you are getting paid to do this proofing. My rule of thumb is that I try not to do anything in my business that I am not being compensated to do, be that editing, proofing, placing orders, etc. I know some photographers choose to do online proofing because it doesn't cost them as much time to throw it online and let the client choose at their leisure, but from my experience you can easily double or triple your PROFIT by taking an hour to proof in person with your client. It's something to keep in mind as you build your business.

Good luck!


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## g-fi (Aug 17, 2011)

Shadowbox said:


> I am using wordpress so I was thinking a private gallery for each client, and they have the option to either inform me directly which prints they want and pay via cash/check or they can purchase the prints via the gallery with a paypal button. I am hoping this method is efficient and easy to use and professional. I am also open to doing as mike said and proofing the pics in person.
> 
> Ooops that was in response to MissCreams question.



Get a Square account and accept credit cards! The Square account is free and the fees come off the top of the payment, the cost is comparable to a merchant account and much less hassle. They'll even provide you with a free card reader for your iphone/ipad/android phone so you can accept credit card payments in person! The more ways you can accept payment, the more clients can pay you!


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## SabrinaO (Aug 17, 2011)

Shadowbox said:


> SabrinaO said:
> 
> 
> > No problem! I would love not have to provide CD's... But all the photogs around here do and that's what people want around here. But I only provide a set amount. Most of the time my clients order their set amount for cd, and I get sales in prints too because I take a lot of shots each session!
> ...



No need to explain! I understand why photographers do it.


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## Shadowbox (Aug 17, 2011)

g-fi said:


> I strongly advise against starting out low and trying to raise your prices later. This rarely works. You will end up with those bargain clients who want everything for nothing and the high end clients will be put off by your low rates. You have to view yourself as being worth more than the $50/CD photographers, otherwise you are going to be stuck competing for the bottom of the barrel. You don't want to attract clients who are afraid of paying a lot for their portraits, you want clients who are willing to invest in the end product. the only way to do that is to market yourself as the best.
> 
> For weddings, I do 30 day online proofing for family members and friends who are looking to buy proofs. For portraits, 14 days for family members/friends, and for clients ALL of my proofing is done in person. It's really the only way to maximize your print sales. You want to be able to show them their gorgeous photos in the best setting possible and have on hand your album samples, your canvas samples, and the selections of different papers you offer the prints in. If they can hold something in their hands, and see their pictures larger than life, they are more likely to make a larger order.
> 
> ...



Thank you, that is great advice. I will keep the gallery online for their friends/family and try an in person approach with the actual client. There is a local lab which provides proof books, I think I may do some test runs with the lab and see how they print.


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## KmH (Aug 17, 2011)

I strongly recommend you contact www.score.org and your nearest Small Business Administration Business Developement Center: Small Business Development Centers (SBDCs) | SBA.gov


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## Shadowbox (Aug 17, 2011)

g-fi said:


> Shadowbox said:
> 
> 
> > I am using wordpress so I was thinking a private gallery for each client, and they have the option to either inform me directly which prints they want and pay via cash/check or they can purchase the prints via the gallery with a paypal button. I am hoping this method is efficient and easy to use and professional. I am also open to doing as mike said and proofing the pics in person.
> ...



Oh perfect! I definitely was considering this type of option if I was able to really get my foot in the door and secure clients. I wanted to be able to accept credit cards.


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## Shadowbox (Aug 17, 2011)

Okay KmH, thanks! I will look into it.


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## g-fi (Aug 17, 2011)

KmH said:


> I strongly recommend you contact www.score.org and your nearest Small Business Administration Business Developement Center: Small Business Development Centers (SBDCs) | SBA.gov



If I could, I'd like this post a thousand times. THIS IS GOOD ADVICE.


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## g-fi (Aug 17, 2011)

MissCream said:


> I lost 3 weddings this week because I don't offer a CD. 3 effing weddings.



Do you have a buy option for your CDs? There's nothing wrong with charging the *right amount* for a CD with printing rights, but IMO, it should be enough to compensate for your lack of print sales as a result, and reflect the quality of your work. 

I'm really not a fan of shooting weddings, but it always bites to lose a sale


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## Big Mike (Aug 17, 2011)

> I strongly advise against starting out low and trying to raise your prices later. This rarely works. You will end up with those bargain clients who want everything for nothing and the high end clients will be put off by your low rates. You have to view yourself as being worth more than the $50/CD photographers, otherwise you are going to be stuck competing for the bottom of the barrel. You don't want to attract clients who are afraid of paying a lot for their portraits, you want clients who are willing to invest in the end product. the only way to do that is to market yourself as the best.


:thumbsup:


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## KmH (Aug 17, 2011)

> I strongly advise against starting out low and trying to raise your prices later. This rarely works. You will end up with those bargain clients who want everything for nothing and the high end clients will be put off by your low rates. You have to view yourself as being worth more than the $50/CD photographers, otherwise you are going to be stuck competing for the bottom of the barrel. You don't want to attract clients who are afraid of paying a lot for their portraits, you want clients who are willing to invest in the end product. the only way to do that is to market yourself as the best.


Raising prices erodes your current customer base. If you're at or near the bottom of the pricing pyramide, expect to wipe your customer base slate completely clean. Plan for a period of time in which your revenue falls, even though you have higher prices. The decline in revenue will be because you will have few, if any, customers until your new marketing/promotions can get up to speed.

You'll then have to go through the above all over again when you again raise your prices.

Business people have long understood that it costs 10+ times more to make a new customer, than to keep a current customer.

I also want to mention that salesmanship is part and parcel to running a retail business. Salemanship skills cannot be applied if the product you are selling is online.


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## g-fi (Aug 17, 2011)

Big Mike said:
			
		

> :thumbsup:



I learned from the best


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