# Do you manual all the time?



## ltcricket (Oct 13, 2012)

Do most of you shoot manual all the time or AV priority / TV priorty. I try to use manual all the time but miss alot of candid shots of the kids trying to get everything set.Just curious what every body else does. thanks!


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## gsgary (Oct 13, 2012)

Manual, only way with a Leica


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## Austin Greene (Oct 13, 2012)

Manual all the time. Not because I think its "cool" but because I find it better suits my shooting style. Even if I catch a great shot, if I wasn't responsible for each factor that went into it (WB, Focus, DOF, SS, etc) then I simply don't feel nearly as good about it. If I could afford film, I would do it, but digital is much more cost friendly to a starving college student. Until then, I barely let the camera get away with processing the image at all. As for speed, I've rarely missed a shot from taking too long to change settings.

Not to mention that I'm not shooting with an insanely high end camera (T3i). Left to its automatic settings every image comes out bland and tasteless. However, its got much of the same hardware as a 7D, so why not harness that by shooting manual and reap the benefits? 

Your camera can never be as creative as your mind, so decide early on who's going to wear the pants in that relationship. 

As for me, I'm a control freak, and manual is the only mode for me


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## Solarflare (Oct 13, 2012)

Newer Leica can do aperture priority. Just set the shutter speed dial to the "A" position.


I usually use Aperture priority with Auto ISO, Max ISO to HI.2 (highest my camera can go) and shutter speed to whatever minimum I think its appropiate.

When I have a portrait (single person), I use maximum aperture.

When I have a group or other larger subject, I raise the aperture.

When I try to photograph a landscape or shoot with my weaker lenses (*), I use f/8 or f/11.

THis technique means, though, that I have to do a lot of menu surfing whenever I want to use different minimum shutter speeds.


When I want time effects, I use shutter priority. I am thinking of getting a variable ND filter for that. 



Oh, and I have no qualms to simply set the mode to "Auto" whenever I feel that this will give me the shot. 


(*) This refers to my kit lens and to my telezoom in the longer focal lengths.


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## prodigy2k7 (Oct 13, 2012)

Only shoot manual when I need to. Otherwise I use aperture/shutter priority.


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## Light Guru (Oct 13, 2012)

ltcricket said:


> Do most of you shoot manual all the time or AV priority / TV priorty. I try to use manual all the time but miss alot of candid shots of the kids trying to get everything set.Just curious what every body else does. thanks!



It all depends on what I'm shooting. 

To shoot the same way "all the time" will not always work.


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## MLeeK (Oct 13, 2012)

I shoot full manual all of the time, but I am a rare bird. The priority modes are there for a reason and if you know your 'stuff' they are probably better tools to use than full manual much of the time. 
I am just inept in the priority modes. This is how I learned and this is how I shoot. HOWEVER, I teach the priority modes often. 

So the answer is: 
Learn full manual, but shoot using the proper tools and that knowledge.


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## Mach0 (Oct 13, 2012)

Yes. Only time my camera is in one of the programmed modes is when I ask someone to take a pic for me.


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## ann (Oct 13, 2012)

My background and training was always manual (as that was basically all there was). I still use it most of the time; however, i will do what ever it takes to get the shot and there have been on occasion a need to use a priority mode. My d700 doesn't even have auto or i might have considered that if necessary.


If i took a guess i would say 99.99% of the time it is manual but again i have been doing it that way for 64 years and my brain just kicks in on it's own.


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## Derrel (Oct 13, 2012)

Flash: ALWAYS manual. Always.
Panning when a SPECIFIC shutter speed is critical: Shutter Speed priority
Many times I will shoot in Aperture Priority auto. It's faster at setting the speed than I am, and I can swing the metering circle to any area I want, and then lock the exposure with the AE lock thumb button.


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## DorkSterr (Oct 13, 2012)

Manual when I'm shooting none action photography (80% of the time), A/P/S when I'm doing fast action and have no time to keep switching settings.


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## Judobreaker (Oct 13, 2012)

No. I both use aperture priority and manual.
Aperture works very well in a lot of cases cases. Whenever it doesn't I switch to manual.


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## Overread (Oct 13, 2012)

The best advice I can give you is to:

1) Learn how to use all the modes on the camera. Or at the very least learn how to use aperture priority, shutter priority and manual mode. (auto needs no learning  and program is optional to learn, some like it and some don't - if you have scene modes ignore them and bulb mode is really just manual but with a longer custom shutter speed). 

2) Use all the key modes a good few times. Don't just learn the theory, practice it until you can easily shoot using those various modes.

Once you've used and practised with them you'll find that its not really a question of "what mode should I shoot" but rather "What mode will give me the best shot possible with the conditions I'm in." Sometimes its going to be full manual; other times one of the priority modes will suit. In the end this is about giving you the option to choose hot to operate since each person and each situation is different and its best to approach it knowing how to use the tool and making the right choices; than always trying to follow someone elses "ideal" way to shoot.


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## panblue (Oct 13, 2012)

ltcricket said:


> Do most of you shoot manual all the time or AV priority / TV priorty. I try to use manual all the time but miss alot of candid shots of the kids trying to get everything set.Just curious what every body else does. thanks!


I use aperture priority quite often, sometimes full manual. Shutter priority with flash sync. Program occasionally for quick snaps.


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## panblue (Oct 13, 2012)

Derrel said:


> Flash: ALWAYS manual. Always.



Fill flash i use manual. One of cameras syncs highspeed and i like using shutter priority to play with that.


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## amolitor (Oct 13, 2012)

I use aperture priority when it's available. Manual with flash, because I am too dumb to figure out how to make the camera do the work. Manual with many combinations of stuff that don't have or allow the use of the internal meter. Here I either chimp for exposure or use a handheld meter.

Manual is useful for:

1) when the camera can't do the job itself (antique lenses, cameras without meters at all, and dumb flashes, for example)
2) when you need consistent exposures across a set (MLeeK taught me this one) where you use manual as a sort of super exposure-lock setting

and maybe some others. The rest of the time, one priority mode or another seems like the right thing.

If you're shooting manual and just meter-matching all the time, well, it's a useful learning exercise I guess. It's functionally identical to using Av, Tv, or P, you're just twiddling both settings instead of letting the camera do half the work.


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## Derrel (Oct 13, 2012)

amolitor said:
			
		

> SNIP>>>
> If you're shooting manual and just meter-matching all the time, well, it's a useful learning exercise I guess. It's *functionally identical to using Av, Tv, or P*, you're just twiddling both settings instead of *letting the camera do half the work*.



Diz-actly. (I'm waiting for the Supreme All-Manual Fanatics to weigh in...and tell us all how totes awesome all-manual, all the time is, for all people.


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## 480sparky (Oct 13, 2012)

In terms of exposure, I shoot in manual 90-95% of the time.
In terms of focus, it's probably 50/50
In terms of WB, I shoot Auto WB unless I'm shooting under controlled lighting.  I shoot raw 99.999% of the time, so WB can be adjusted manually in post any time.


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## sm4him (Oct 13, 2012)

I shoot in manual 99% of the time, but it's because when I first got my camera, a little over a year ago, I decided I would MAKE myself use manual until I got comfortable with using it.  I got SO comfortable using it that I tend to forget there are other options. 

There are times it WOULD be easier to use Shutter priority or Aperture priority, but I just forget that's an option.  Maybe I'll start making a concerted effort to shoot those modes more, when appropriate.


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## 480sparky (Oct 13, 2012)

sm4him said:


> I shoot in manual 99% of the time, but it's because when I first got my camera, a little over a year ago, I decided I would MAKE myself use manual until I got comfortable with using it.  I got SO comfortable using it that I tend to forget there are other options. ..........



Girl after my own heart.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





I am of the 'tude that if you are serious about taking better images, you should be required to shoot FULL manual.... ISO, shutter, aperture, WB and focus.... until it becomes second nature to you.  Only then will any of the AUTO features of you camera be unlocked for you to use.


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## trizzo (Oct 13, 2012)

I use only manual mode with my Nikon D90.


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## arrested_truth (Oct 13, 2012)

Always shoot in Manual... it is very rare that I do something different otherwise.  But if I'm shooting animals/kids/sports etc. with lots of movement or other unique situations, I'll use Aperture or Shutter priority.


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## Ysarex (Oct 13, 2012)

My camera stays set to P mode and I use it set there most of the time. For flash of course full manual and I do a lot or panoramas which require full manual.

Joe


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## Joey_Yack (Oct 13, 2012)

Personally, I use manual when I have the time for the shot, but if I'm in a hurry to catch whatever i'm shooting, I use auto.


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## SCraig (Oct 13, 2012)

When the subject or conditions warrant, then yes I shoot in manual.  The majority of the time it's in aperture priority or shutter priority depending on needs.


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## swiftparkour94 (Oct 13, 2012)

I use manual 95% of the time. That'll probably change depending on what type of sports I'll be shooting in the summer. So far I've only really shot surfing so I wasn't in need of changing the settings much.


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## panblue (Oct 13, 2012)

Ken Rockwell shoots Auto everything.


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## TCampbell (Oct 13, 2012)

I'll shoot manual if the situation doesn't call for rapidly adapting the exposure settings (e.g. rapidly changing lighting, action, etc.)  If I'm setting up a shot where I have all the time in the world to get it, then I'll not only shoot manual, I also use a light meter and a tripod.

For any situation where the lighting is changing or the action is happening fast, I go to Av or Tv but then I may use exposure compensation depending on the type of shots and the metering mode of the camera.  

When you think about it, the technique for shooting in manual is as follows:

1)  size up the lighting and determine an ISO that should work
2)  based on the type of shot and whether its more critical that you control aperture/DoF or whether it's more critical that you control shutter speed, dial in that setting.
3)  as you're metering and framing up the shot, dial the remaining exposure element (either aperture or shutter) to indicate a correct exposure on your built-in meter.
and 
4)  compensate for the meter when called for (e.g. set it a stop low, or high, etc.)
5)  shoot

If you shoot in Av or Tv (let's just pick Av as an example)

1)  size up the lighting and set the ISO
2)  pick the f-stop
3)  meter and adjust exposure compensation if necessary
4)  shoot

The camera is basically going to pick the SAME shutter speed that you would have dialed in anyway.  

The major difference is that you saved yourself from dialing in one setting because either you or the camera would have dialed in the same setting.

When the shooting is a bit more dynamic (subjects are not in consistent light) or the lighting is changing too rapidly to keep up, then use one of the semi-auto modes.  That's why they exist.


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## wsetser (Oct 13, 2012)

Full manual, but then again I shoot 4x5 so auto is not an option. I learned photography with a Pentax Spotmatic so not only did I use manual, but stop-down metering at that. Later, when I was shooting Canon, I tried an EF which had an a shutter priority mode. The exposures were fine but I just didn't enjoy shooting that way so I got ride of it and went back to my FTb. I've been happily shooting manual ever since.


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## panblue (Oct 13, 2012)

Exposure modes: *M*acho *A*rty *S*peedy *P*arty animal. Shutter-speeds: 60-1/4000 + *B*oring waterfall photo.


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## 480sparky (Oct 13, 2012)

panblue said:


> Ken Rockwell shoots Auto everything.



He also spews dribble Automatically.


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## kundalini (Oct 13, 2012)

Manual shooting mode most of the time, but only because that's what I grew up on.  With Nikon's finger and thumb wheels, it easy peasy to quickly change either aperture or shutter speed in a split second.  I've been shooting some in Aperture mode lately though.  I also shoot in Shutter Priority for certain situations.  Oh, and with my little m4/3 Olympus, I don't have a problem shooting in _i_Auto mode.


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## panblue (Oct 13, 2012)

480sparky said:


> panblue said:
> 
> 
> > Ken Rockwell shoots Auto everything.
> ...


 With a preference for Cloudy or Shade..likes it a bit warmer. 

It must make life just that bit more exciting though, knowing that while you rest at night, 
a dedicated PayPal donate button waits patiently. I'll have to get one of those!


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## unpopular (Oct 13, 2012)

I'm probably on Derrels list of Manual Fanatics. But in reality, the single biggest reason I shoot manual is because I always have.

There are advantages to manual exposure, and really, it's not the exact same thing as AE with EC. With manual exposure I can compensate with any combination of both aperture and shutter speed, dynamically and quickly without changing modes. I get to choose what method to use, or any combination of methods. In AE you're stuck. Tv mode you change the shutter speed and the aperture follows by a determined amount of compensation. Av you change the aperture and the shutter speed follows. In manual mode I can I can adjust shutter speed or aperture to any portion of the required compensation. Say I need +3ev, I can increase time by +1.5EV and open the aperture by +1.5EV. I could increase time by +3ev. I could open the aperture by +3ev. I could say "hey, you know, I'd like to see more DOF" and stop down by -5ev and increase time by +8ev for a net gain of +3ev, all independent of the AE mode I find myself in.

Manual mode allows you to specifically choose how compensation is performed. On a Sony, anyway, if you want to simply transpose the exposure to a different aperture or shutter speed, you simply press the AEL button and make the adjustment, and the other parameter adjust accordingly. It's a really nice feature that I am unsure exists on any other camera, and essentially gives auto mode no real advantage.


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## PixelRabbit (Oct 13, 2012)

sm4him said:
			
		

> I shoot in manual 99% of the time, but it's because when I first got my camera, a little over a year ago, I decided I would MAKE myself use manual until I got comfortable with using it.  I got SO comfortable using it that I tend to forget there are other options.
> 
> There are times it WOULD be easier to use Shutter priority or Aperture priority, but I just forget that's an option.  Maybe I'll start making a concerted effort to shoot those modes more, when appropriate.



This word for word.


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## unpopular (Oct 13, 2012)

Anyone who shoots and completely understands manual will find AE easy. 

I remember first learning more about AE and thinking "really? that's all it does?".


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## Mach0 (Oct 13, 2012)

kundalini said:
			
		

> Nikon's finger and thumb wheels, it easy peasy to quickly change either aperture or shutter speed in a split second.  .


 
+1


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## techniker (Oct 13, 2012)

I started shooting in full manual mode shortly after getting my Canon SX110 IS in 2008 because, after using my Mother's Canon 20D in auto for many years prior, I realized how much more character the shots have when they are properly exposed. Err, that's not to say the shots looked bad using the 20D, but they look so much better when I adjusted the exposure settings myself.

I now own a 60D now and don't think it has left "M" since I purchased it. I don't avoid the AV/TV/P for any particular reason, but I have no problem changing the aperture and shutter speed while looking through the viewfinder. White balance is generally on auto unless there is a static light source, in which case the pre-sets work great. Shooting in RAW allows me to change the wb after the fact. The auto focus works very well, and I have no problem using the focus ring, but I'm terrified of compensating for a diopter that's out-of-adjustment.


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## Ysarex (Oct 13, 2012)

unpopular said:


> I'm probably on Derrels list of Manual Fanatics. But in reality, the single biggest reason I shoot manual is because I always have.
> 
> There are advantages to manual exposure, and really, it's not the exact same thing as AE with EC. With manual exposure I can compensate with any combination of both aperture and shutter speed, dynamically and quickly without changing modes. I get to choose what method to use, or any combination of methods. In AE you're stuck. Tv mode you change the shutter speed and the aperture follows by a determined amount of compensation. Av you change the aperture and the shutter speed follows. In manual mode I can I can adjust shutter speed or aperture to any portion of the required compensation. Say I need +3ev, I can increase time by +1.5EV and open the aperture by +1.5EV. I could increase time by +3ev. I could open the aperture by +3ev. I could say "hey, you know, I'd like to see more DOF" and stop down by -5ev and increase time by +8ev for a net gain of +3ev, all independent of the AE mode I find myself in.
> 
> Manual mode allows you to specifically choose how compensation is performed. On a Sony, anyway, if you want to simply transpose the exposure to a different aperture or shutter speed, you simply press the AEL button and make the adjustment, and the other parameter adjust accordingly. It's a really nice feature that I am unsure exists on any other camera, and essentially gives auto mode no real advantage.



You're showing your age and you may be younger than me. There's another auto mode you missed: P(program). I keep my camera set to P unless I need manual. Then I keep my thumb on the EC control and my index finger over the wheel right behind the shutter release. That wheel under my index finger will rotate through the entire EV set for the metered exposure. In other words I'm in Av and Tv modes simultaneously while my thumb can simultaneously dial in +/- as needed. It's the same physical motion whether I want to prioritize shutter speed or aperture. Ultimately there's an efficiency edge that gets me to the exposure I want faster than someone using manual -- it's slight enough that it'll only matter for that once in a lifetime shot in that split second where I'll get there first and so it's not a big deal but I am practicing for when the time comes. I shoot in P to get maximum creative control over my camera.

Joe


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## unpopular (Oct 13, 2012)

I don't quite see how P would be any better, at least not on my camera. EC adjusts both aperture and time, so if I meter off something that is +2EV, and compensate, i'd then have to scroll through the combinations to return to the shutter speed or aperture I wanted, whereas in manual mode I'd just open up by two stops or increase time with one movement, or a combination of both.


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## 480sparky (Oct 13, 2012)

unpopular said:


> I don't quite see how P would be any better, at least not on my camera. EC adjusts both aperture and time, so if I meter off something that is +2EV, and compensate, i'd then have to scroll through the combinations to return to the shutter speed or aperture I wanted, whereas in manual mode I'd just open up by two stops or increase time with one movement, or a combination of both.



With Nikons, you can adjust the shutter speed/aperture combination with the rear command dial when shooting in P.  If you don't like the 1/250 @ f/8 the camera chooses, spin the dial to 1/125 @ f/11, or 1/500 @ f/5.6.  They're all the same EV.

However, if you want to change the EV, use the front command dial.  This will start you down the + or - EV path.  Lo-end bodies that only have the rear dial use the +/- button in conjunction with the rear command dial.


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## Ysarex (Oct 13, 2012)

unpopular said:


> I don't quite see how P would be any better, at least not on my camera. EC adjusts both aperture and time, so if I meter off something that is +2EV, and compensate, i'd then have to scroll through the combinations to return to the shutter speed or aperture I wanted, whereas in manual mode I'd just open up by two stops or increase time with one movement, or a combination of both.



Depending on whether we judge an EC correction is needed, it often isn't, whether circumstances have changed, maybe maybe not, there can be no difference. You could get to the same place I do as fast as I do. Don't think of it as one case in point. We're going to go out and shoot 1000 different photos. With your camera on M you'll be as fast as me in many cases but never faster. I will for some percentage of those 1000 photos be just slightly faster than you. It's about how many physical motions you have to make over that 1000 photos -- I'll make slightly fewer.

Joe


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## unpopular (Oct 13, 2012)

480sparky said:


> With Nikons, you can adjust the shutter speed/aperture combination with the rear command dial when shooting in P. If you don't like the 1/250 @ f/8 the camera chooses, spin the dial to 1/125 @ f/11, or 1/500 @ f/5.6. They're all the same EV.
> 
> However, if you want to change the EV, use the front command dial. This will start you down the + or - EV path. Lo-end bodies that only have the rear dial use the +/- button in conjunction with the rear command dial.



I thought that this is how it works on my a700, but it's not. One wheel dials through the EV combinations, one wheel offsets time, while the EC button+either wheel will offset the aperture.

What changes when you press the EC button in program mode on Nikon?

Either way, Sony's manual mode is easier than program mode. If you want to scroll through the equivalent values you just press the AE lock button and turn either wheel, the shutter and aperture will correlate based on the EV locked in.

ETA - no, joe, its' all good. I don't mean to make this into a big competition. like I said, 90% of the reason I shoot manual is just because I always have. One big thing we're also running into is that every camera brand does things a little different.


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## paigew (Oct 13, 2012)

Yes, I always shoot in manual. I have never once used the priority modes. Once you get used to it, it becomes second nature


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## 480sparky (Oct 13, 2012)

unpopular said:


> ........What changes when you press the EC button in program mode on Nikon?........



Nothing, when pressed by itself.  I need to turn the rear dial to affect any change in the exposure.  The display will then read out the EV change (plus or minus and either 1/2 or 1/3 stops depending on my settings).  When I release the button, I'm shown the selected aperture and shutter speed.


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## unpopular (Oct 13, 2012)

Yeah, but what actually changes when you adjust EC? shutter, aperture or both?


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## Derrel (Oct 13, 2012)

unpopular said:


> Yeah, but what actually changes when you adjust EC? shutter, aperture or both?



Ummmm, wouldn't what changes be dependent upon the MODE the camera is set to? As in, the EC changes the OPPOSITE exposure control from the one the USER has set by hand? So, in Shutter Priority mode, dialing in +1.0 EV cvomp keeps the shutter speed the same, and adjusts the aperture; conversely,in Aperture Priority auto, dialing in +1.3 EV will keep the same Aperture value as was entered by the user, but the camera will allow the shutter to slow down by 1.3 EV to add the needed + 1.3 EV of light.

That's been my experience with how EC works in auto modes.

In Programmed Auto, it would, or could be a combination perhaps, depending on the relationship of the light level, lens focal length, etc. MOST cameras made since the Nikon FA back in the mid-late-1980's have focal length aware Program settings, which have a well-definded Program matrix graph in the user's manual, where a baseline shutter speed of 1/60 secon dto 1/125 second is achieved and ONLY after that speed is hit, will the aperture be adjusted to smaller and smaller settings; other camerra have High-Speed programs,etc. Depending on the exposure "level", the EX system might add or subtract shutter speed or lens aperture, or both, depending again on light levels, focal length, etc.etc..


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## unpopular (Oct 13, 2012)

good lord. really? program mode sounds downright obnoxious on nikon. I mean, I can see how this would be useful, but it'd drive me NUTS.


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## 480sparky (Oct 13, 2012)

Derrel said:


> unpopular said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, but what actually changes when you adjust EC? shutter, aperture or both?
> ...



P.


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## 480sparky (Oct 13, 2012)

unpopular said:


> good lord. really? program mode sounds downright obnoxious on nikon. I mean, I can see how this would be useful, but it'd drive me NUTS.




It's actually quite intuitive.  Use the rear command dial to change the shutter speed/aperture combo the camera chooses, but still keep the same 'correct' exposure.  Use the front dial (or +/1 & rear) to actually change the exposure value.


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## 480sparky (Oct 13, 2012)

unpopular said:


> Yeah, but what actually changes when you adjust EC? shutter, aperture or both?




Both.


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## ltcricket (Oct 13, 2012)

I want to thank you all for the feed back!! It seems most of you are fans of the manual as am I. I just seem to be missing some of those funny moments the kids do trying to get everything adjusted. I am going to try some of the A/S setting see how those go. I am using a canon T3 for my personal use which has a single wheel. I use the Nikon D90 at work which has two wheels which is alot faster. Maybe time for an upgrade LOL!! Thanks again!!!


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## D-B-J (Oct 13, 2012)

It's funny.  It seems as if those who shoot only manual are quite often haughty about it.  As if it's some higher-class form of shooting, with A and P priority modes being for noobs.  I learned to shoot using mostly manual, but once I got a hang of everything, I typically use A and P, depending.  The camera can make slight exposure alterations much quicker than I, and quite often, I shoot in variable-light environments.  Shooting in completely manual all the time is asinine, as a large percentage of your photo's will most likely end up over or under-exposed.


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## unpopular (Oct 13, 2012)

If you really had the hang of it then why would most of your shots in manual come out over/under exposed?

---

I'll add, if you're not shooting with a spot meter, it may not really make a lot of sense to shoot manual mode as you don't have a precise enough reference to make it worthwhile. At that point you'd be more or less aligning triangles with zeros...


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## pgriz (Oct 14, 2012)

It's a bit of a sterile debate, actually.  I shoot in whatever mode gives me the least amount of work.  Is that being lazy?  or efficient?  Whatever.

But then, I travel with an incident light meter (L-385), and I check the ambient light prior to starting to shoot.  My camera meter is on spot mode.  If I'm shooting static scenes, I tend to set aperture based on the DOF I'm looking for, and the shutter speed is set from my incident light reading.   Then, I meter the highlights, shadows with the spot-meter, and see if any exceed my camera's dynamic range.  If so, I may adjust up or down, depending on which detail I want to keep.  In this kind of shooting, it's manual mode.

If I have things that move in the image, then a decision has to be made.  Freeze the motion or blur?  And if blur, how much blur?  That may take a few experimental shots to determine which shutter speed gives the best effect.   After that, it depends on the light and on the difference in brightness of the subjects.  If the subjects are different in tone, and the light is stable, then I'd go manual.  If the subjects are similar in tone, but the light is variable, I'd go Tv (shutter-priority).  

If I'm shooting family snaps, and being part of the action is more important than getting the perfect image, I set the camera to the Av (shutter priority) mode,  and let the camera deal with the exposure.  And if other people are going to be picking up the camera and shooting casual snaps, then it goes into P mode.


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## rexbobcat (Oct 14, 2012)

M is something that sometimes makes things more difficult than they need to be. Not always, but sometimes. It's like using manual focus in a situation where your autofocus is perfectly capable. It doesn't really make sense.

So I probably use manual maybe 70-80% of the time.


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## Ysarex (Oct 14, 2012)

unpopular said:


> 480sparky said:
> 
> 
> > With Nikons, you can adjust the shutter speed/aperture combination with the rear command dial when shooting in P. If you don't like the 1/250 @ f/8 the camera chooses, spin the dial to 1/125 @ f/11, or 1/500 @ f/5.6. They're all the same EV.
> ...



Yep, we're good -- when I started in this business a light meter built into the camera was still a little unusual. You could buy a Nikon F with that newfangled photomic prism thingy, but really, who would want one? Manual back then meant you didn't use a meter at all. I'm still pretty good at that.

This is a perennial topic and every time it comes up there's always someone, *not you*, who starts with the "I'm a real photographer, I only shoot manual and my 300mm 2.8 is this............long." And it's usually just a pile of cr*p. Technology advances forward -- seriously most of us have managed to become happy with built-in reflected light meters. They work well enough for me. If you're going to use the meter built into the camera then why not use the rest of the tech built around it, otherwise what's your problem?!! Oh yeah, your 300 f.8 is this...........long. *Again, I haven't picked up that attitude from you, *but it's out there. I reference Derrel's first post in this thread -- he noted it as well.

So the fact of the matter is that a modern well-designed camera is most efficiently used when you take full advantage of the camera's high-tech capabilities. The engineers aren't stupid and I really don't think for example that they designed my 5dmkII for the consumer market assuming I was dumb Joe Consumer. I'm aware of the options and ramifications of my choices and the fact is that using my camera in P mode gives me maximum efficiency most of the time. Bottom line: I get to the shutter release sooner. Big deal? No. It's only an issue for me when dealing with jerks who think their 300mm 2.8 is this...........long.

Why make an issue out it? Because new photographers come to sites like this all the time and they deserve to hear good advice. They want to know how to get the maximum benefit from their cameras and how to use them to best advantage. Learning to use a camera in M mode may be a valuable teaching aid but the teaching shouldn't stop there. Once they understand they should continue to progress forward and take best advantage of the machine's capabilities.

Joe


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## The_Traveler (Oct 14, 2012)

Graystar said:


> ltcricket said:
> 
> 
> > *I rarely shoot in manual, as there's no benefit to it.*  The only time I'm in manual mode is when the meter doesn't work, as with astrophotography, long exposure, and certain types of flash exposure, or odd accessories like a LensBaby.  Otherwise, if the meter works then I'm in an auto mode.  *I have just as much control over exposure in aperture, shutter, and program modes as with manual mode.  If a person doesn't think he does, then what's needed is not manual mode, but a lesson on how a camera works.*
> ...


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## Dao (Oct 14, 2012)

If the light condition won't change and I want consistency or I do not trust the in-camera light meter, then I use manual mode.  Otherwise, I shoot Av most of the time.  In some situation,   I may need to look at the scene in the viewfinder, exposure lock with spot meter an area where I believe the in-camera meter can obtain a good reading I want.  (spot meter a person's face, grass on the ground, a gray color object etc.)


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## charlie76 (Oct 14, 2012)

togalive said:
			
		

> Manual all the time. Not because I think its "cool" but because I find it better suits my shooting style.



Is manual the "cool" thing?  I didn't realize. Personally I bracket just about everything on aperture priority.  I only use manual when I am in a situation where the light is guaranteed to be consistent...and I'm absolutely positive I have the correct exposure.


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## ronlane (Oct 14, 2012)

charlie76 said:


> Is manual the "cool" thing?  I didn't realize. Personally I bracket just about everything on aperture priority.  I only use manual when I am in a situation where the light is guaranteed to be consistent...and I'm absolutely positive I have the correct exposure.



If I understand this right, you get three images of everything by doing this, correct? Do you combine them for HDR? Please explain, as I am trying to understand for possible use myself.


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## 480sparky (Oct 14, 2012)

ronlane said:


> If I understand this right, you get three images of everything by doing this, correct? Do you combine them for HDR? Please explain, as I am trying to understand for possible use myself.




Bracketing exposures is an age-old practice, especially when the lighting is tricky.


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## unpopular (Oct 14, 2012)

charlie76 said:


> togalive said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If manual is the cool thing I must be doing it wrong. I'm not "cool" at all!

---

Maybe it depends on some background, too. I don't look at a scene and immediately turn to the light source, for me exposure isn't about what's available, but what's reflecting back at me, and what's reflecting back at me will determine how I expose. Now I know that cameras built-in meters have all these nutty multi-point evaluative modes, but I find that typically these modes under expose - not in a way that makes the image look bad, but in a way that under-utilizes the cameras dynamic range.

For me, I come from a traditional black and white film background. I prefer color, but expose for the shadows process for the hilights is engrained in me. In black and white film, this means you spot meter the shadows, decide how many zones below middle grey you want it to be and then meter the hilights to determine how long you develop the film according to your little charts you've made with a densitometer (in practice you just generic chart from ilford and say "meh, close enough").

So really, with the zone system, what the SUN is doing doesn't really matter. With slide film, I did the same, only I exposed for the hilights and let the shadows fall into place because I knew I wouldn't get any shadow detail and there wasn't much I could do about that anyway.

I spent a lot of hours trying to figure out what the best way was to meter in digital. Nobody seems to really know. I asked past professors and they never had a real good answer. It seems that people just kind of ignore the fact that nobody really has a consensus of how to meter in digital, and so they use the built-in evaluative meter and say "meh, good enough".

But this meter mode is not intended to give the best results, but rather the best LOOKING results. Sure, it's great if you're doing something at high speed in changing light - but evaluative meter modes make decisions about the scene on your behalf, and in every case except that which I mentioned you will end up with a sort of "middle of the road" result made up of the camera's engineers' compromises, not your own.

After many hours trying to figure out this problem of how to best meter for digital, that because "density" in digital is applied directly from the shadows without reversal, I found that you can go infinitely deep into the shadows and just make them brighter and ever brighter. So what I do is expose for the hilights and process for the shadows. To do this I spot meter the hilights, increase exposure to just below where they'd start to clip and then pull the shadows (if necessary - and it nearly always is) in post. I could meter the shadows and apply the processing in a specific way and I do have a method for this, but it's cumbersome.

So what I'm saying here though is that what the source light is doing doesn't play a roll in the way I shoot. I look for the brightest point in the scene where I want to preserve detail and meter it, regardless if this is right outside the frame from a similarly lit subject. For example, if I have a wide shot that includes the sky, I might meter off the white puffy cloud then if I look downward and see a cool shape in the ground, I might meter off the sidewalk. In both of these cases, I'll increase exposure to +2.6, about a stop below my absolute ceiling, and expose. But because the Cloud is significantly brighter than the sidewalk, if I used the cloud's reference the sidewalk would be under exposed. If I used the sidewalk's reference the cloud would be significantly over exposed. I could use middle grey for everything, but if I did that the lightest point in the scene would be accurate to the scene, but not to the photograph.

Photography isn't about what light is available, it's about what light is reflected back. While the two are of course related, you can't have reflected light without a source, this idea removes the fact that what "white" is doesn't so much depend on the source light, but rather on the context of the scene.


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## jake337 (Oct 14, 2012)

If I'm not shooting in manual, then I'm most likely using my cell phone.


But seriously, it doesn't matter how you achieve your final image as long as it works for YOU consistently.


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## jamesbjenkins (Oct 14, 2012)

Manual: any time I'm using flash, whether hot shoe or OCF.

Shutter priority: if I'm shooting a moving target and I need to ensure I can stop motion. If I'm using this mode, it's almost always 1/500th or faster.

Aperture priority: probably 70% of the time.

Anyone who claims to always use manual either wants you to think they're a big deal or they don't understand the benefits of the other modes. Or they're just a control freak and don't mind missing shots due to motion blur or exposure issues.


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## Patrice (Oct 14, 2012)

ltcricket said:


> Do you shoot manual all the time?



No.


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## jake337 (Oct 14, 2012)

jamesbjenkins said:
			
		

> Manual: any time I'm using flash, whether hot shoe or OCF.
> 
> Shutter priority: if I'm shooting a moving target and I need to ensure I can stop motion. If I'm using this mode, it's almost always 1/500th or faster.
> 
> ...



Or just enjoy it more.  This is just a hobby to many of us anyways.


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## Ysarex (Oct 14, 2012)

Migu666el said:


> I'm a control freak, and manual is the only mode for me ;-)



I'm even more of a control freak than you. I shoot in P (program) mode to get even finer precision and more efficient control of the camera -- cuttin' it right to the bone for maximum creative control.

Joe


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## unpopular (Oct 14, 2012)

I love how there is this stereotype about manual shooters are so arrogant, yet in this thread you have comments like this^^ and Jenkins blanket statements.

I can pretty much guarantee that manual is more flexible than any AE mode, including program. It might not be faster, but it is more flexible. You can't adjust exposure arbitrarily, EC is performed according to the parameters of the mode. This is by definition what auto-mode is - though as it apears you can manually "break" the sony/minolta program, adjusting both time and aperture independently, just as you can essentially enter program mode by using AEL in manual, linking them together.

But seriously. How hard do you auto enthusiasts think it is to line up the little triangle with the EV over/under? It's really not that hard _and as greybeard points out, this is the exact same thing as auto mode._


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## unpopular (Oct 15, 2012)

Graystar said:


> It doesn't matter if you want to overexpose, underexpose, or want standard exposure...we are all slaves to the lighting.  We can't just do whatever we want.  We must work with the light...even if we bright our own.  And from that view, being able to spin dials to any number you want doesn't really get you much.  There must always be coordination between the settings, and it will be driven by the light.



When I say arbitrary, I mean you can increase shutter and aperture in any portion to get to whatever exposure value that you need.

It seems like your approach to exposure is a means to an end, and not an integral part of photography.

And yes. I know that EC doesn't change the exposure, but rather the meter. If I press the EC button in manual, nothing changes except what "0" means.


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## unpopular (Oct 15, 2012)

Graystar said:


> Yeah...that's what it sounded like you were saying.  I still don't understand what that gets you if (from my point of view, of course) the ability to set any EV doesn't get you anything.  +/-5 EC from standard exposure gives you a 10 EV range on a meter that covers 18 EV.  I've done -5 EV, to turn white into dark gray...but never needed to go +/- 6 EV.  But maybe you do...I have no idea what you're photographing.  Have you ever taken exposures that were more than 5 EV from the indicated exposure?



I still am not sure you really get what I mean. With manual mode, I can get to +1EV in any way. +1EV in time, +1EV in aperture, +1/3 in time and +2/3 in aperture, -3 in time and +4 in aperture, +8 in time and -7 in aperture, +1 ISO, +2 time and -2 aperture. It doesn't need to be a large translation, I can adjust any exposure using any parameter, or any combination of parameters simultaneously.

And yes, it this is useful to work that way. Take the last example involving ISO. Let's say I need one stop more exposure, I'm already at ISO 800, and I don't want to go much higher than ISO 1600, but I also need more DOF. I can't go much below 1/30, and I'm already at 1/120. How would you get from f:5.6 to f:11, while still increasing exposure by 1EV and not going below 1/30 sec in auto mode? 

So you use auto ISO. But now everything looks good, except that it's cold and you drank too much coffee, suddenly 1/30 is a bit slower than you remember it being, so reluctantly you have to increase the sensitivity than you were first cormfortable. You like the DOF at f:11, so how do you get to 1/50 f:11 and ISO 2500?

Manual allows you to set anything independent of everything else. That's it's strong point. Yes, it's a little slower, but it is more flexible.



> I have no idea what that means.  Can you explain it?



Do you see exposure as a sort of inconvenience, something you'd rather not have to think about? Is exposure something which has only one "correct" outcome? Or do you see exposure as something integral to the scene, the photograph and how the scene is recorded, presented and edited?



> > And yes. I know that EC doesn't change the exposure, but rather the meter. If I press the EC button in manual, nothing changes except what "0" means.
> 
> 
> Then why did you say that EC is performed according to the parameters of the mode if you knew that its only effect is upon the meter?



Because this is, for all intensive purposes, the result of EC in auto mode, as EV is directly coupled to the variable parameter.


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## Tee (Oct 15, 2012)

Ysarex said:
			
		

> I'm even more of a control freak than you. I shoot in P (program) mode to get even finer precision and more efficient control of the camera -- cuttin' it right to the bone for maximum creative control.
> 
> Joe



I can't tell if this is tongue-in-cheek or you're being serious.  

ETA: read thread in its entirety and respect your reasoning.


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## Tee (Oct 15, 2012)

In a studio setting, I'm 100% manual. I am incorporating A priority a little more when outside.  For me, I approach an image with what aperture I'm using and adjust my settings with that in mind.  The one thing I consider when in A is shutter speed. I want to be able to shoot with various apertures and not worry about my shutter speed. If I'm going to be shooting in A then the first thing I'll do is set to manual, determine smallest aperture and meter for that with appropriate ISO for the minimum shutter speed. Then I'll go to A and shoot. This way I don't have to worry about slow shutter speeds (unless I need a slow shutter). My camera handles high ISO like a champ so I don't worry if I'm up past 1600.  There are a multitude of ways to skin the cat. This way works for me.


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## shawncooper78 (Oct 15, 2012)

Manual, because i believe that by adjusting all the settings manually, i capture pretty good images as considered to auto-adjustment. However in the beginning i preferred auto-adjustment.


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## thereyougo! (Oct 15, 2012)

Ysarex said:


> unpopular said:
> 
> 
> > I don't quite see how P would be any better, at least not on my camera. EC adjusts both aperture and time, so if I meter off something that is +2EV, and compensate, i'd then have to scroll through the combinations to return to the shutter speed or aperture I wanted, whereas in manual mode I'd just open up by two stops or increase time with one movement, or a combination of both.
> ...



For the majority of situations I shoot in faster isn't better.  Correct exposure and DOF is far more important.  I am predominantly in Av except when it's moving and I shift to Tv.  In difficult lighting I will use Manual and review, review, review.


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## thereyougo! (Oct 15, 2012)

Solarflare said:


> Newer Leica can do aperture priority. Just set the shutter speed dial to the "A" position.
> 
> 
> I usually use Aperture priority with Auto ISO, Max ISO to HI.2 (highest my camera can go) and shutter speed to whatever minimum I think its appropiate.
> ...



I don't wish to appear to be a pedant, but in this context you are *lowering* the aperture.  The numbers go up, but as they are fractions, the size of the aperture goes down.  I appreciate that you will know this but as this is the beginners forum, newbies may not know this, and its important to know how aperture works correctly to harness the skills of getting the exposure right.


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## unpopular (Oct 15, 2012)

Graystar said:


> On a Nikon, if part of your pictorial objective is a sharp image then AutoISO should be used.  I would simply set the slowest shutter speed that I'm willing to use into the AutoISO settings.  Now I shoot in A mode.  As I narrow my aperture from 5.6 to 11 and the shutter slows, the camera will not allow the shutter to drop below my MSS (Minimum Shutter Speed) setting, and will instead increase ISO to make up the difference in exposure.  As to your stated concerns of not wanting to go much higher than a certain ISO or this or that...
> 
> I change my MSS to 1/50s.



I don't understand how this is _remotely_ more intuitive or faster than manual mode.



> as I said previously...we are all slaves to the light. We can only do what the light allows. And if that means using ISO 6400 to meet the demands of our desired effects (being DOF and blur) then that's what we use. Otherwise, you have no image. What are you going to do...try a slower shutter speed and hope you don't get any blur? All that gets you is a bunch of blurry images.



I adjust exposure according to the settings which will least affect the final output. I will _first _adjust shutter speed. I will then adjust aperture. I will FINALLY, if _NOTHING ELSE is working_, I'll adjust ISO. But this adjustment is kept to a minimum by going back through and compromising aperture, because in _most cases_ I'd rather have shallower DOF than image noise and lower dynamic range and resolution. But the camera doesn't know what "most cases" mean.

It's just not a matter of "if I hit this ceiling, then start adjusting ISO to you're camera heart's content". I don't need or want to go through a bunch of menus to change min/max settings to accomplish this same result. Instead, I keep my minimum and maximums in my head and manually TELL the camera how to apply them.



> Once I've done doing whatever is necessary to get the scene under a single light source (or to operate as if) I can set the actual exposure.  I'm not a proponent of ETTR, so I will usually just use my gray card in constant-light conditions and lock exposure, or if the light is constantly changing, I'll pick one spot on the subject to act as my exposure (and focus) reference.  The gray card method is easiest and will guarantee that any bright reflective highlights will have as much exposure as possible without clipping.  To set exposure I just face the card to the light, spot meter the card, and press AE Lock.  I set my EC to +1.3 (the correct EC for my particular gray card) and I'm done with exposure.  If I have to use the subject as a reference in changing light, then I simply go old-school and make a guesstimate based on knowledge and experience on the EV correction needed for the subject tone.  I may take a test shot to check the exposure.  By tying exposure to a particular point on the subject, it will be consistent regardless of how the light changes.



And all I do, in a typical setting, is meter the brightest part of the scene and increase exposure by around +3EV. My camera has a maximum exposure of +3.7EV, so I know anything brighter will fit within those 0.7 stops of latitude. No grey card, no guestimation. My hilights never clip, seldom are shadows without discernible detail; and even if they were I'd know that in order to get detail out, I'd have to clip the hilights. Sometimes this is OK, sometimes it isn't. But the greycard doesn't know that, and it's faster to say "everything brighter than_ that _is ok to clip".

It's not about the light source, it's about what the light reflects. The brightest region will always be at the edge of latitude regardless what the shadows are doing.

Though this really has nothing to do with AE.



> Once my exposure is set I'll select the exposure mode that's best suited for the image I want.  Then I adjust whatever the priority function is to the setting I want, and I'm ready to shoot.  Under constant light I can just press the shutter.  Under changing light I have to move my focus point to the reference point on the subject.



Ok. I can dig that. Not sure I'd want my reference point to be my focus point, but I'm sure that you can change this. I never said that manual is best suited for all situations, only that it's more flexible in terms of changing settings. 



> Second, because I'm in an auto mode, I'm able to change the one setting that I care about (or sometimes, but very rarely, two settings) directly and without regard for the other settings.



See, and I can - and do, often. But as far as I can tell, this is a Sony/Minolta feature.



> Dark coat, -1.  Light-skinned face, +1.  I spin the dial and shoot.  Sometimes there isn't even time to do that, and I just press the shutter.  Better to get a shot that needs to be fixed, than no shot at all.



In this case, I'll just increase or decrease exposure directly. If you're metering from a variable reference, then you don't gain any advantage *at all* by using auto mode, all you're doing is limiting the combinations of ISO, shutter speed and aperture that you can access on the fly.

---

It is impressive your understanding of exposure, especially in terms of EV, but our approach to exposure is so VASTLY different. I do ETTR, you don't. You seem more focused on what light is available, I'm more focused on what light is reflected back. Your approach is very similar to slide film, mine is closer to b/w.

I doubt we'll ever find common ground on this issue, not because you're wrong and just stupid but rather because we literally see things so differently.

But in the end, we both get good exposures according to our expectations.


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## Ysarex (Oct 15, 2012)

thereyougo! said:


> Ysarex said:
> 
> 
> > unpopular said:
> ...



I don't rank speed as top priority. I never compromise on getting a correct exposure or the motion rendition/DOF that I want. That given, I then want the most efficient way to get there.

Joe


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## unpopular (Oct 15, 2012)

I'll admit that, now that I have looked into how my a700 works in program, which is essentially "auto-assist manual mode" it is more appealing to me.

I just don't know if I could get used to it.


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## pixmedic (Oct 15, 2012)

I usually only do it manually if the wife has a "headache"  :mrgreen:


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## nmoody (Oct 15, 2012)

When I was learning I used manual 100% of the time. This was so I understood what I was doing each time and actively thought of it. It really did wonders for how fast I learned.

I eventually got used to it but noticed I was missing opportunities due to how long it took me to adjust everything. The D3100 doesn't have as many knobs and buttons so its sometimes takes a little longer. 

Now I shoot aperture priority about 80% of the time, shutter priority 10% and manual 10%. I break out manual when its a stationary object I really like and want to get the best picture I can.

There is a time and a place for each settings method, pick and choose.


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## 480sparky (Oct 15, 2012)

If I'm shooting a landscape with the camera on a tripod, it's manual.  This way, I can focus & compose the shot, then use my Starlite spot meter to get some serious light measurements.  With that information, it's easier for me to just spin the dials to get the aperture & shutter speed(s) I need.  Especially for HDR.  Since the rear dial controls the shutter speed, I can readily use that to obtain the number of shots I need to build the HDR.

I guess I'm old-school, in that my first 4 or 5 cameras didn't have auto _anything_.  They may have had a meter, but it simply showed me which way I needed to go with my settings.

Then Pentax came out with the ME Super, which has aperture-preferred (A or Av in digital lingo).  Made shooting fast action in varying light a whole lot easier.  I'll still default to P or A today to shoot 'candids', like a kid's birthday party.


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## ronlane (Oct 15, 2012)

I just bought a book on Friday that talked about this in the first chapter. It has assignments to use AP, SP and Manual to see how the exposure triangle work. So I put my camera back in AP mode and was out taking pictures this weekend. It seemed easier to get the exposure right or better without a lot of blown out sun highlights.


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## unpopular (Oct 15, 2012)

^^ I never have blown hilights i'm not expecting. Never. Unless I'm sloppy.


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## Derrel (Oct 15, 2012)

Graystar said:
			
		

> massive SNIP>>> *...different environment have different needs.*



*Diz-ACTLY!!!!!

I smugly laugh inside at the all-manual,all-the time,M-is-the-best snobs. It's a dumb way to think. Imagine a world with only ONE movie theater. ONE TV series. ONE entree at all restaurants. ONE kind of motor vehicle. ONE size of shoe. Rrrriiight...*


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## unpopular (Oct 15, 2012)

Graystar said:


> It's not about the light source for you because you're practicing ETTR...and I've already said I'm not a practioner of ETTR. With your method you must always adjust exposure in post processing to restore the brightness levels. With my method the brightness of the scene is correct (well...not "correct" but "standard"...which is usually what I want.)



Standard is NOT what I want in an exposure, what I am looking for is maximum amount of data from the scene. In my belief it is better to capture more than you need, than try to create what you need from very little.

It's not a matter of "adjusting exposure" in post, but processing the data in a similar way as you would in b/w zone system, but in reverse.



> You say you never clip highlights, but is that because you review your first attempt, spot the clipped highlight, and then reset your exposure based on the highlight that's truly brightest (rather than the one you thought was brightest...but wasn't?)



No, this is completely not true at all. I typically don't have any problem finding the brightest value, and I give it about a -2/3-1ev latitude to provide a bit of wiggle room. But typically, the high values are pushed up against the right with nothing I don't expect to going over. Sometimes I get lazy, but I've been working on this and am getting back on my game. But no. It's not hard to pick out the brightest region in a scene without resorting to making a test shot first.



> You say you're not guesstimating (which, by the way, I said was for changing-light conditions...you're talking about constant light) but you have to guess at which is the brightest highlight. You need to take your camera, point at various highlights, and review the meter to see which is the brightest. I don't go through that. The gray card guarantees that I won't clip highlights.



I don't really understand how your greycard knows anything about your camera's latitude. If the hilights are +5EV they're going to clip. I can almost 100% guarantee you that if your shadows are looking good SOOC, your hilights are much, much less exposed than you are thinking they are.

Regardless if your brightest region is one stop above middle grey, your greycard will always say it's only at Zone VI.



> It's possible that I may leave some highlight space unused, but rarely is that more than one stop. It doesn't bother me, because if the scene DID contain a bright highlight, ETTR would give me the exposure I get from the gray card anyways. That's why I don't practice ETTR...I find it a waste of time (for my photography.)



And my bet is that you push those hilights with an S-curve in post.


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## unpopular (Oct 15, 2012)

Derrel said:


> Graystar said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I hear WAY more "manual is useless" than "manual is best" snobbery. I'd say it's insecurity, but I can't imagine that you both don't at least know _how_ to shoot manual


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## Patrice (Oct 15, 2012)

Maybe it's time to put this thread to bed. Don't worry if you've missed your chance to add to the repetition, you'll have another chance in the very near future.


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## pixmedic (Oct 15, 2012)

sooner than expected!

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/beyond-basics/302568-what-mode-do-you-shoot.html


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## imagemaker46 (Oct 15, 2012)

Always manual.  I like to take  responsibility for what I'm doing with a camera.  If I set it on anything else I have an excuse if things don't go the way I want them to.  It's more important to learn from mistakes.


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## Derrel (Oct 15, 2012)

Take pictures responsibly. Always make sure of the shot before pressing the shutter. Never shoot drunk. Never shoot while tired. Wait one hour after meals before shooting! Always shoot with a buddy! Always wear your neckstrap. Always adjust the diopter before backing out of the driveway or parking space. Always check the CF storage pressure and have the CF card contacts aligned, balanced, and rotated every six months. Always change the oil in the camera at least once each season! Never overfill the oil!. Never exceed the frames per second limit, nor exceed the buffer. Shoot responsibly. Always be sure of your target. Never shoot at a sound in the brush--it might be another shooter and not your quarry! Always keep the lens pointed in a safe direction! Never point the lens at anything you do not intend to shoot! When you go out to shoot, leave a plan and a return ETA with a responsible party. In the event of an accident, have a plan!


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## amolitor (Oct 15, 2012)

Always release the shutter button with the right hand. Releasing the shutter with the left hand is unclean.


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## unpopular (Oct 15, 2012)

Graystar said:


> > And my bet is that you push those hilights with an S-curve in post.
> 
> 
> Why would I push highlights to brightness levels that they were never at to begin with?



Let's say you have a photograph involving a concrete sidewalk and an asphalt road. The sidewalk is the brightest object in the scene, yet only meters at +1.5 above middle grey. My perception about the scene though is that the sidewalk is bright, and the road is dark, but the photograph will not represent this perception unless the contrast is increased.

You could handle that situation by metering the sidewalk and increase to the zone where you want to place it, and that's fine and has merit. I prefer to have maximum shadow detail to work with; you prefer things being SOOC.

However, this image would not be possible SOOC, and without significantly darkening the asphalt, the perception of the luminance in the reflections just isn't possible. My mind say the reflection as much brighter than it actually was:







RE: 3 stops headroom - I don't know, this doesn't seem right to me. I've seen latitude tests that indicate more, but maybe I am misunderstanding the data. In practice, this seems accurate.

As for WB - I'm not interested in objective accuracy, I'm not a journalist or forensics photographer. WB is the one thing you truly can correct in raw, since w.b doesn't actually change any in-camera parameter, AFAIK. Shooting jpeg, otoh...

I'll read the rest in a bit.

----

Though still, NONE of this has to do with AE. I can reference the hilights in with EC, no problem.


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## onerugrat (Oct 15, 2012)

Derrel said:


> Take pictures responsibly. Always make sure of the shot before pressing the shutter. Never shoot drunk. Never shoot while tired. Wait one hour after meals before shooting! Always shoot with a buddy! Always wear your neckstrap. Always adjust the diopter before backing out of the driveway or parking space. Always check the CF storage pressure and have the CF card contacts aligned, balanced, and rotated every six months. Always change the oil in the camera at least once each season! Never overfill the oil!. Never exceed the frames per second limit, nor exceed the buffer. Shoot responsibly. Always be sure of your target. Never shoot at a sound in the brush--it might be another shooter and not your quarry! Always keep the lens pointed in a safe direction! Never point the lens at anything you do not intend to shoot! When you go out to shoot, leave a plan and a return ETA with a responsible party. In the event of an accident, have a plan!




and if your using film, always assume your camera is loaded!


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## unpopular (Oct 16, 2012)

^^ if the grey card ensures accurate exposure, then that had to have been a moderate contrast situation to start with.  This isn't about what is actually there, but how the eye and mind interprets, perceives and is impressed upon the scene.

At any rate, you don't have adequate detail for my taste, SOOC, in the upper left. Looking at your histogram, there is PLENTY of room for greater exposure. I wouldn't venture to guess how much. And your processor _does_ apply significant processing. If you have it, try setting your input Gamma correction to 1.0 as just one relevant example.



Graystar said:


> Well...I did use A mode, EC, and AE Lock.



Yeah. I figured you would  I can also do all my ETTR/hilight referencing in auto mode. But you know that. At this point we've hijacked yet another auto/manual thread - with all the same arguments going nowhere


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## robbyrob (Oct 19, 2012)

I love reading these threads because well lets just say people are real  "passionate" about their shooting style. I like to shoot manual when  ever I can but switch to AE when I don't feel comfortable or just want a  quick snap. I have a couple questions which I hope both you manual and  non manual guys/gals can answer.

I recently went to a wedding and I couldn't imagine the photographer  shooting manual all the time due to the fast pace of like her walking  down the isle, throwing bouquet, etc. Maybe its just my inexperience but  I imagine this could be hard in manual mode.

let me throw you another scenario, I was watching a football game the  other day and after a touchdown I noticed the photographers with the  nice long lenses and it made me think. In such a fast action shot where  you don't really know whats going to happen can you really shot in  manual? Im not saying you cant Im sure you pros might be able to but I  guess is it really worth shooting in manual in these situations? meaning  is the hassle worth the results?.

go nuts!!


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## Solarflare (Oct 19, 2012)

Err, no.

Professional sport photographers take the best AF systems there are (like Canon 1D X, Nikon D4) and super expensive long primes (300mm f/2.8 and such) in order to "get the shot".

Manual Focus in Sports is possible, but the "pros" who need to get the shot dont do it.

Weddings, on the other hand, I heard of people who successfully shoot these with a Leica. Why ? Because people dont run during weddings.

Leicas ARE good at street photography, after all. Theres a nice YouTube video from Eric Kim (a street photographer) where he explains how you do it.


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## sandraadamson (Oct 19, 2012)

I shoot manual pretty much 100% of the time the only exception when my husband is driving 100km/hr in our rig down the highway and he won't stop to let me take a pic of something lol I switch to shutter speed priority.

www.sandraadamson.com www.sandraadamson.blogspot.com


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## unpopular (Oct 19, 2012)

Solarflare said:


> Because people dont run during weddings.



Though. We did have a pinata where my goofy, 275lb  brother in law almost mowed down the children.

So, maybe fast AF at a wedding is actually a bad thing.


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## sandraadamson (Oct 19, 2012)

robbyrob said:
			
		

> I love reading these threads because well lets just say people are real  "passionate" about their shooting style. I like to shoot manual when  ever I can but switch to AE when I don't feel comfortable or just want a  quick snap. I have a couple questions which I hope both you manual and  non manual guys/gals can answer.
> 
> I recently went to a wedding and I couldn't imagine the photographer  shooting manual all the time due to the fast pace of like her walking  down the isle, throwing bouquet, etc. Maybe its just my inexperience but  I imagine this could be hard in manual mode.
> 
> ...



I shoot 100% manual mode when I shoot weddings I don't even have to think about it. It's second nature to me now but when I first started it wasn't so easy that was 6 years ago. The more u prattled the better u get at it.

www.sandraadamson.com www.sandraadamson.blogspot.com


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## unpopular (Oct 19, 2012)

^hmm. I think you've got more practice ahead of you.


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## wsetser (Oct 19, 2012)

All this talk about needing to have state of the art auto focus and auto exposure in order to get a shot makes me wonder how anyone was able to take a decent shot before the technology was available.


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## rexbobcat (Oct 19, 2012)

Solarflare said:
			
		

> Err, no.
> 
> Professional sport photographers take the best AF systems there are (like Canon 1D X, Nikon D4) and super expensive long primes (300mm f/2.8 and such) in order to "get the shot".
> 
> ...



Yeah but you most likely can't hand a Leica to the average wedding photographer and they'll just know how to use it to get the same quality photograph,while I'll bet if you give an AF camera to a Leica user they can make it work just a well in a shorter amount of time.

I used to know a photographer who could follow focus a 400mm lens on a running deer...after 10 years of practice.

If you practice enough you can't get really good at almost anything. People may not run at weddings, but if I have a slightly OOF shot because you missed manual focus I would feel horrible. 

I guess it's kind of a game of "who do I trust more?" lol


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## amolitor (Oct 19, 2012)

Technology advances. Some technology provides a better solution to some problems than what came before.

Autofocus makes a lot of photographic tasks easier, it does not make all photographic tasks easier, and most photographic tasks do not require autofocus.
Autoexposure makes a lot of photographic tasks easier, it does not make all photographic tasks easier, and most photographic tasks do not require autoexposure.
Digital sensors make a lot of photographic tasks easier, they do not make all photographic tasks easier, and most photographic tasks do not require digital sensors.
Roll film makes a lot of photographic tasks easier, it does not make all  photographic tasks easier, and most photographic tasks do not require roll film.
Dry emulsions as opposed to wet make a lot of photographic tasks easier, they do not make all photographic tasks easier (damn near, though!) and most photographic tasks can be done wet-plate (if you're a maniac).

and so on.


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## TheBiles (Oct 19, 2012)

Aperture priority about 75% of the time for general photography and manual for everything else when I need a certain shutter speed.  I want to control my depth of field 100% of the time, so I never use shutter priority.  I mainly use manual with flash and in low light where I can set a very specific minimum shutter speed and use auto ISO to make fine adjustments.  I've found myself using auto ISO a ton with the 5D3 because it's fantastic even up to ISO 6400, and it allows me to worry about more important things like shutter speed.


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## Hickeydog (Oct 19, 2012)

Derrel said:


> Take pictures responsibly. Always make sure of the shot before pressing the shutter. Never shoot drunk. Never shoot while tired. Wait one hour after meals before shooting! Always shoot with a buddy! Always wear your neckstrap. Always adjust the diopter before backing out of the driveway or parking space. Always check the CF storage pressure and have the CF card contacts aligned, balanced, and rotated every six months. Always change the oil in the camera at least once each season! Never overfill the oil!. Never exceed the frames per second limit, nor exceed the buffer. Shoot responsibly. Always be sure of your target. Never shoot at a sound in the brush--it might be another shooter and not your quarry! Always keep the lens pointed in a safe direction! Never point the lens at anything you do not intend to shoot! When you go out to shoot, leave a plan and a return ETA with a responsible party. In the event of an accident, have a plan!



Oops.  Looks like I violated every rule listed...


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## bentcountershaft (Oct 19, 2012)

I'm late to this one, but I've posted my thoughts in at least ten other threads of this nature in the last few years, so I'm going to keep it short this time.  I shoot manual pretty well all the time.  The only time I move out of that mode is if I hand my camera to my wife to take a picture of something.  Now, having said that, I'm rarely in situations where the lighting action is changing so inconsistently that I am unable to easily keep up with it.  The few exceptions I've experienced has definitely proved to me that shutter priority and aperture priority certainly have their uses.


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## runnah (Oct 19, 2012)

It's really about how long I have to shoot. At work I am shooting people doing a dangerous job and don't have time to ask them to pose or do something again, so I normally shoot Aperture  Priority. If I have time or am doing it for fun I use manual.


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## panblue (Oct 19, 2012)

I've really been getting into using programme, the last couple of days 
The little K-m does ok! I just steer now..the camera changes the gears!


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## XxTheZombiezxX (Oct 20, 2012)

I use full manual on my Nikon D3100 and Nikon N90s. As for my Nikon EM... It's a Apature priority film camera. I still use it because it was my first slr.


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## skieur (Oct 20, 2012)

Heaven forbid!  If I shot manual all the time, I would miss one heck of a lot of shots.

skieur


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## double5 (Oct 20, 2012)

I shoot manual a lot of the time with my Canon 40D and all the time with my Nikon FM


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## johncam (Oct 21, 2012)

Yes, I always shoot in manual.


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## StandingBear1983 (Oct 21, 2012)

It depends on the situation, if i have time to really perfect a shot i use manual, if i need to act fast i use Aperture priority mostly...I never use Auto ISO, i want to be as much in control of the camera i can be, but if you shoot manual all the time, your more likely to miss shots unless manual is really second nature, it depends on one's level of skill and what is the target one is shooting.


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## Solarflare (Oct 21, 2012)

wsetser said:


> All this talk about needing to have state of the art auto focus and auto exposure in order to get a shot makes me wonder how anyone was able to take a decent shot before the technology was available.


Oh, I dont need it ... except fast autofocus for action, of course.

But its convenient and I dont get why I shouldnt do it. Why not leave the work to the automatic which will do exactly the same thing as I would ?





rexbobcat said:


> I used to know a photographer who could follow focus a 400mm lens on a running deer...after 10 years of practice.


So what ? That deer is running in quite a distance and its running in a straight line. Not much to do there.

Doesnt mean the same guy stands any chance to focus on two martial artists punching each other just 5 or even less meters away from the photographer.


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## LisaCadwell (Oct 21, 2012)

As a newbie I use either A/P or T/P. Manual still scares me! "I SEE BAD PHOTOS..." ale: I figure that is at least a step up from using full auto.


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## SCraig (Oct 21, 2012)

robbyrob said:


> I recently went to a wedding and I couldn't imagine the photographer  shooting manual all the time due to the fast pace of like her walking  down the isle, throwing bouquet, etc. Maybe its just my inexperience but  I imagine this could be hard in manual mode.
> 
> let me throw you another scenario, I was watching a football game the  other day and after a touchdown I noticed the photographers with the  nice long lenses and it made me think. In such a fast action shot where  you don't really know whats going to happen can you really shot in  manual? Im not saying you cant Im sure you pros might be able to but I  guess is it really worth shooting in manual in these situations? meaning  is the hassle worth the results?.


Let me answer your question with a question.  Actually two questions:
1)  How long ago were cameras with automatic exposure capabilities invented?
2)  What do you think wedding and sports photographers did in the 100 years before that happened?


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## rexbobcat (Oct 21, 2012)

Solarflare said:
			
		

> Oh, I dont need it ... except fast autofocus for action, of course.
> 
> But its convenient and I dont get why I shouldnt do it. Why not leave the work to the automatic which will do exactly the same thing as I would ?
> 
> ...



You seem to misunderstand. He could focus on a  deer running in any direction.

I assume you most likely can't do that. 

Martial artists /=/ wild life.

You just proved my point. Manual focus is something that people practiced constantly to get good and even then autofocus systems are just better (not in some situations but just generally). Unless they're some sort of cyborg I can't imagine a digital-only photographer very easily picking up a Leica and just having at it very effectively. 

I can just as easily focus on martial arts with my 1D as I can on a deer. The same cannot be said for the person who's manual follow focus skills are attuned to a certain type of motion/action.


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## fmw (Oct 22, 2012)

I shoot with manual exposure in the studio because of the strobe lighting.  Outdoors, I normally shoot with AE.  I use Nikon's P or program mode most often.  It allows me to step through the various exposure combinations with a wheel and see them in the viewfider.  If I need exposure comp, I normally meter the part of the composition I need to meter to get the result I want and then lock the setting with a half shutter push.  I do focus compensation the same way.  I don't want to spend a lot of time fussing with dials.   Today's digital SLR's have way too many features for me.  I use them about the same way I used film cameras in the day.


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## amolitor (Oct 22, 2012)

SCraig said:


> Let me answer your question with a question.  Actually two questions:
> 1)  How long ago were cameras with automatic exposure capabilities invented?
> 2)  What do you think wedding and sports photographers did in the 100 years before that happened?



1) Long enough ago that "sports photography" and "wedding photography" didn't really exist as businesses.
2) see #1


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## fmw (Oct 22, 2012)

Let's see.  My Nikon F and F2 were both manual cameras with linked add-on meters.  The F3 was the first one with a built in meter.  The F4 was finally an auto exposure camera.   If I remember correctly my first AE camera was a Nikon FA.  I never really liked it and didn't keep it very long - strange because I did like the FM and FM2 which were on the same chassis..  That was in the late '80's.  I assume there were earlier auto exposure cameras but I would assume they were also released in the 1980's.

Wedding photography has been a profession pursuit far, far longer than the release of auto exposure.   Most sports photographers are media employees.   I've done a little professional sports photography but it was just because I had a baseball team as a client.  I've some sport shoots for ad agencies as well.  But I didn't know of anybody who did sports photography professionally and exclusively other than media employees.  If that is a business then it became one after my time.


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## Ysarex (Oct 22, 2012)

amolitor said:


> SCraig said:
> 
> 
> > Let me answer your question with a question.  Actually two questions:
> ...



:shock: Link :shock:


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## amolitor (Oct 22, 2012)

I take that back, apparently nobody hit upon the idea of interlinking the meter with the camera settings until surprisingly late in the game. Still, in most of the 100 years prior to let's say 1978, people were not doing wedding photography or sports photography as a business. Ysarex helpfully provides a link to a book of photographs beginning from 1961.

I feel pretty confident asserting that, within a small margin of error, zero percent of the sports photographs and zero percent of the wedding photographs ever taken were taken with cameras capable of automatic exposure.

ETA: http://camerapedia.wikia.com/wiki/Kodak_Super_Six-20

1938. It WAS about the time I was thinking, it just never took off. Do I stand corrected or not? I am loathe to take a position either way at this point.


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## photosbydanij (Oct 30, 2012)

I use manual 100% of the time.  If you know what you are doing, it won't take long to get the settings you need.  Practice, practice, practice


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## Patriot (Oct 31, 2012)

Maybe I should start shooting manual.


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## Solarflare (Oct 31, 2012)

rexbobcat said:


> You seem to misunderstand. He could focus on a  deer running in any direction.


OMG you dont have the first clue about focus, it seems.



rexbobcat said:


> I assume you most likely can't do that.


Oh, so this is a question for you ? Then forget it.


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## Dao (Oct 31, 2012)

- I drive to work. (The place where I live, public transportation is not that good.  I wish they can do better)
- There are people riding a bicycle to work.
- Most of the people in the past went to work by riding a bicycle or on foot.
- I can walk to work or riding a bicycle to work.  But drive a car save me time (but getting me fat)
- It take me 30 mins to drive to work, so if I walk or riding a bicycle, it will take a lot lonnnnnnnnnger.
- Is driving a car better than riding a bicycle to work?  For me, it is a yes.   With a car, it allows me to have more options.  It take less time.  So I can have a job farther away from home.

In our life, there are tools invented and available for us to use to make our life easier and better.  We do not have to use it, if that make you feel better and work better, why not?  if my work place is only 5 to 20 mins drive from home, I will rather ride a bicycle if weather is good.  I think I will feel better riding a bicycle to work.

I can tell you that if I ride a bicycle to work every single day in the past 10 years, I am sure I can ride it without using my hands now.  But can I ride a bicycle from home to work for 30 mins?  hum ....  I don't think so.    Even if I am Lance Legstrong with drug aid.

So the bottom line is .....

Who cares!   Life is short, do what you feeeeeeeeeel better.


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## unpopular (Oct 31, 2012)

So there you have it. Auto mode is convenient, but at the expense of environmental responsibility.


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## manaheim (Oct 31, 2012)

47 trillion threads on this topic.  Please use search.


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## Dao (Oct 31, 2012)

manaheim said:


> 47 trillion threads on this topic.  Please use search.



Should I search with the search function (let the computer do the job) or do a manual search by visiting all the pages?


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## manaheim (Oct 31, 2012)

Dao said:


> manaheim said:
> 
> 
> > 47 trillion threads on this topic.  Please use search.
> ...



Whatever works for ya, baby... just so long as you don't start thread # 47 trillion and one.


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