# Black & White Challenge: candid photography



## gk fotografie (Sep 13, 2020)

Welcome!

This challenge is all about learning to 'think - see - create' in black & white and not just randomly converting color photos. Only new black and white photos taken during the week of this challenge, please!

_Some thoughts to go with challenge #16: Candid photography is actually photographing people in a certain situation without them knowing they are being photographed and therefore cannot prepare for it. What is strived for isn't people posing as a model, but spontaneity and the freezing of the moment. _

So, have fun!


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## zulu42 (Sep 13, 2020)




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## zulu42 (Sep 13, 2020)




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## zulu42 (Sep 13, 2020)




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## Pixeldawg1 (Sep 14, 2020)

I still occasionally take my trusty little Nikon N1AW1 out to play around with it, and today was walking around campus and spotted this woman working on the landscape, weeding a garden. She said hello to me, which is quite unusual for an elderly person here in China to do, so I had a conversation with her and she was delightful. I asked if I could make a photo of her and this is the shot that I chose, of the five images made. Hope you enjoy.


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## gk fotografie (Sep 14, 2020)

Pixeldawg1 said:


> I still occasionally take my trusty little Nikon N1AW1 out to play around with it, and today was walking around campus and spotted this woman working on the landscape, weeding a garden. She said hello to me, which is quite unusual for an elderly person here in China to do, so I had a conversation with her and she was delightful. I asked if I could make a photo of her and this is the shot that I chose, of the five images made. Hope you enjoy.
> 
> View attachment 197440



This is a nice, posed portrait, but it does not belong in this candid photography challenge.
The characteristic of candid photography is to photograph the human being_ without them being aware of it, not being given the opportunity to pose_ and thus obtaining an image as lifelike as possible. The hallmark of candid photography is spontaneity, it is the technique of freezing one moment in life, also notice my info in the OP


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## Pixeldawg1 (Sep 14, 2020)

gk fotografie said:


> Pixeldawg1 said:
> 
> 
> > I still occasionally take my trusty little Nikon N1AW1 out to play around with it, and today was walking around campus and spotted this woman working on the landscape, weeding a garden. She said hello to me, which is quite unusual for an elderly person here in China to do, so I had a conversation with her and she was delightful. I asked if I could make a photo of her and this is the shot that I chose, of the five images made. Hope you enjoy.
> ...



Would be nice to be asked about this prior to making a public statement that is incorrect. She was speaking to me when I shot this. Not posed. Thanks for this though. No more for me here.


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## johngpt (Sep 17, 2020)

Nothing as fun as Zulu's fantastic shots of the kids, but this past Monday found us outside the Apple Store waiting for our purchase to be brought out to us. I thought I'd whip out the phone. I used to use the Hipstamatic app with its filters of Lowy lens and Blackeys XF film quite a bit years ago. I really liked the shadows and that no one was looking at a phone.




distanced queuing

.


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## Derrel (Sep 17, 2020)

I don't think that the subject being unaware of the camera is a required part of what is called "candid photography". In one way candid means frank and honest... Not necessarily voyeuristic or hidden camera. I think any picture of people going about their daily business without the photographer directing them into a specific pose falls under the umbrella of candid photo. I would strongly  disagree that "candid" photos require that the subject be totally unaware of the camera.


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## Derrel (Sep 17, 2020)




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## Dean_Gretsch (Sep 17, 2020)

Yes, I always interpreted candid as being " unposed or undirected ".


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## johngpt (Sep 17, 2020)

Derrel said:


> I don't think that the subject being unaware of the camera is a required part of what is called "candid photography". In one way candid means frank and honest... Not necessarily voyeuristic or hidden camera. I think any picture of people going about their daily business without the photographer directing them into a specific pose falls under the umbrella of candid photo. I would strongly  disagree that "candid" photos require that the subject be totally unaware of the camera.


While I totally agree with your more broad definition of candid, the way Gerard wrote the brief narrowed the definition for this week's theme. If Gerard would like to broaden the scope for this theme, fine or if he would like to keep the more narrowed definition, fine. I'm good either way.


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## Derrel (Sep 17, 2020)

johngpt said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think that the subject being unaware of the camera is a required part of what is called "candid photography". In one way candid means frank and honest... Not necessarily voyeuristic or hidden camera. I think any picture of people going about their daily business without the photographer directing them into a specific pose falls under the umbrella of candid photo. I would strongly  disagree that "candid" photos require that the subject be totally unaware of the camera.
> ...



His two posts above have been edited. I am not sure that his first post was as it appears now on Thursday. it was edited on Monday. I am not sure about the time difference between Mark's post and GK photography's area, or as it relates to my area on the west coast of North America. I am not suggesting that the brief was edited to reflect GK's own definition after the accusation was made against Mark for having posed the subject.but I do think that my definition of candid photography is the more accepted one;street photography for example is often referred to as candid, even though people know that you are there photographing them.

 For a person to be truly unaware that there is a camera pointed at them seems a bridge too far for me. unless you are using a very long focal length lens or are shooting through glass such as from a car or a house shooting thru the window, or are taking voyeuristic and hidden camera photos, then I think the more traditionally accepted definition of candid photography means not posed. But of course the guy running the contest can call the shots and if he requires people not to be aware of having been photographed, then that is his right.

I am looking forward to seeing some photos shot from blinds/hides, through two-way mirrors, and through peep-holes, and of course some photos shot with 500 to 1,000 mm lenses,either conventional or catadioptric.


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## Derrel (Sep 17, 2020)

If a key characteristic of a candid photo is that the subjects are unaware that they are being photographed, then what are we to make of the children playing on the trampoline?

are we to suppose that they were completely unaware that there was a grown man standing within 15 ft of them and pointing a large camera at them? Are we to assume that they were so blissfully engaged in their play that they failed to see an adult with a camera repeatedly making pictures?


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## photoflyer (Sep 18, 2020)

The juxtaposition of their shirts makes me laugh.


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## Dean_Gretsch (Sep 18, 2020)

What's that old saying...opposites attract?


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## waday (Sep 18, 2020)

I guess I always assumed something closer to Gerard’s definition of candid. You may be aware that someone is there with a camera taking pictures, but you’re not directly interacting with them. I think if I were speaking with someone and all of a sudden they pointed a camera at me and took a picture, and I was aware of it and saw it happening, I wouldn’t consider it a candid. If I was unaware of them taking a picture, then I guess I would consider it a candid. 

I personally think it all has to do with the subject and if the subject reacts to the camera. YMMV.


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## photoflyer (Sep 18, 2020)

I could use some feedback / tips on how to take color digital photos and render them in B&W for the best result.  One thing I add is a bit of grain to approximate film (I find digital a bit sharp for my taste in B&W) but I struggle with contrast and getting a good balance between whites, grays and dark areas.  Are there any tricks to adjusting the color image first before converting to B&W?    It might also just be the subject matter itself.    The shots that I have been satisfied with I could tell when I shot them would lend themselves to B&W.


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## Derrel (Sep 18, 2020)

How about an actual adult response rather than three, repeated churlish X's in disagreement? Surely if you feel so strongly you can defend your position using a few words at least,no?


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## Derrel (Sep 18, 2020)

For many years the way to convert color to Black and White was using Photoshop's channel mixer... But I think a better method has now been developed by Adobe, which is their color filter effect preset method, which does a pretty good job of me making the various color filters that we used to use in black and white film days.

I am still using a set of free presets that Matt Kozlawski (so?) Was giving away back in 2012. You can of course make your own modifications to any Lightroom preset . the standard Adobe assortment of presets that comes with each version of Lightroom includes some sepia-tone looks and other types of black and white looks. You can use one or two or even three or six presets one combined with the other, and I have done this myself many times.

As far as adding grain, there are a few fake grain effects available. I have basically almost no experience with this, so perhaps others will chime in.


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## johngpt (Sep 18, 2020)

photoflyer said:


> I could use some feedback / tips on how to take color digital photos and render them in B&W for the best result.  One thing I add is a bit of grain to approximate film (I find digital a bit sharp for my taste in B&W) but I struggle with contrast and getting a good balance between whites, grays and dark areas.  Are there any tricks to adjusting the color image first before converting to B&W?    It might also just be the subject matter itself.    The shots that I have been satisfied with I could tell when I shot them would lend themselves to B&W.


Mike, I sent you a Conversation message.


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## charlie76 (Sep 18, 2020)

Derrel said:


> any picture of people going about their daily business without the photographer directing them into a specific pose falls under the umbrella of candid photo.



This is absolutely correct. I think the confusion is coming from the contradiction in the OP statement.   I have thousands of pictures of my kids.  All are candid.  Some they turn and look at me, some they don’t. Are the shots where they look at me no longer considered to be candid?


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## charlie76 (Sep 18, 2020)

Derrel said:


> As far as adding grain, there are a few fake grain effects available. I have basically almost no experience with this, so perhaps others will chime in.



I use the Nik Collection BW conversion machine (whatever it’s called).  I recommend avoiding the presets altogether, or use them as a jumping off point.  This software gives you full control of how the individual colors are converted to BW... so basically you can go full manual, in that regard. There are also settings for adding grain and similar features. It has presets that were designed to mimic the old school films.  Sometimes I start there and adjust manually as needed


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## charlie76 (Sep 18, 2020)

Derrel said:


> I am looking forward to seeing some photos shot from blinds/hides, through two-way mirrors, and through peep-holes



heheheeeeee!!  Very good


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## mjcmt (Sep 18, 2020)




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## zulu42 (Sep 19, 2020)

People get upset because they're passionate. We're all passionate about our own photography. Some, like @gk fotografie, are passionate about others' photographic journey as well. Passionate enough to plan and conduct a weekly learning exercise for the benefit of others- without compensation. For that reason my opinion is that Gerard can use the definition of "candid" that he posted in the OP and he can be grumpy about his rules if he wants.

The kids certainly knew I was there taking photos (so, not candid?)  but they were playing with each other without regard for making a pose for the camera (candid?). To be honest when I see someone smiling directly at the camera that doesn't make me think "candid". But I can see it may be harder to define.


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## mjcmt (Sep 19, 2020)

Merriam-Webster definition: relating to or being photography of subjects acting naturally or spontaneously without being posed.

A candid can look into the camera on the subjects own term, without being posed as in a portraiture.


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## zulu42 (Sep 19, 2020)

Reading back, I can see we are all willing to provide our interpretations of the definition.

The OP chose his interpretation as the basis for his challenge...


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## johngpt (Sep 20, 2020)

Another from last Monday. After receiving my purchase I went into this store looking for Kim.
I caught a few photos before the guys setting up the window display knew I was shooting.






Do we know when this theme finishes? Is it one week (and now past) or two?


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## Kiron Kid (Sep 22, 2020)




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## Photo Lady (Sep 23, 2020)




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## Photo Lady (Sep 23, 2020)




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## mjcmt (Sep 23, 2020)

Photo Lady said:


> View attachment 197862


Reminiscent of the one room school house w/ outdoor plumbing...if you know what I mean.


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## Photo Lady (Sep 23, 2020)

mjcmt said:


> Photo Lady said:
> 
> 
> > View attachment 197862
> ...


yes this is exactly how it was back in early 1800's.. this is a drive by of Amish children playing outside of their school..... thank you.. Imagine these children have no idea of what a different world it is around them...


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## DanOstergren (Sep 23, 2020)

zulu42 said:


> The OP chose his interpretation as the basis for his challenge...


I personally think this is perfectly reasonable for a contest organizer to do for their own contests. If people don't like the OP's definition, couldn't they organize their own contest thread with their own definitions and requirements for entries?


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## Derrel (Sep 23, 2020)

Great let's redefine portrait photography to only studio, only shot with Nikon, and only shot with a 105 mm lens.


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## Derrel (Sep 23, 2020)

Kiron Kid said:


> View attachment 197857



Where is the op to tell you that these are not candid photos, and that the subjects were fully aware that the camera was pointed at them? Where is the attack from the op telling you that your photo does not belong here?


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## Derrel (Sep 23, 2020)

By definition candid photography as defined by the original poster is actually more like surveillance photography or voyeuristic photography.

If the subject or subjects cannot be aware of the camera then what you are doing is not candid photography necessarily but something entirely different.


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## Kiron Kid (Sep 30, 2020)

Derrel said:


> Kiron Kid said:
> 
> 
> > View attachment 197857
> ...



That was a candid photo. She had no idea that I was pointing the camera at her until she turned my way, and I tripped the shutter before she could react.


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## cgw (Oct 3, 2020)

Derrel said:


> By definition candid photography as defined by the original poster is actually more like surveillance photography or voyeuristic photography.
> 
> If the subject or subjects cannot be aware of the camera then what you are doing is not candid photography necessarily but something entirely different.



I prefer "impromptu" to "candid" as defined by the OP. Subject awareness of the camera seems beside the point. Unless they're vision-impaired or been raised by wolves, subjects know a camera when they see one and know what they do.


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## johngpt (Oct 6, 2020)

I'm really disappointed with the bickering.
I suspect that Gerard (gk) may have been put off these challenges altogether and I wouldn't blame him.
I hope he decides that it would be worthwhile to continue.


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## terri (Oct 8, 2020)

johngpt said:


> I'm really disappointed with the bickering.
> I suspect that Gerard (gk) may have been put off these challenges altogether and I wouldn't blame him.
> I hope he decides that it would be worthwhile to continue.


Yes, he is not responsible for the bickering that went on after the initial disagreement.  

However, let me point out that these challenges are completely member-driven - meaning, anyone who wants can certainly select a new theme and start a new thread.   Unlike things like the TPF Challenge and POTM, this is very informal, doesn't require a moderator, etc., so can be done by anyone who takes an interest.  

Have at it, folks!


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