# Taking photos of children at night outdoors



## in2thewild (Mar 3, 2016)

Hello,  I've been asked to be the photographer at a kid's birthday party and it'll be dark outside.  I have a Canon d600 and a Canon 430 EX II speedlite. I'm wondering whether it's best to shoot in manual mode or Program mode? Different areas of the birthday party location with have different lighting so I need to make sure I can adapt to the lighting quickly. 

Also, is it OK to point the flash at the person or is it better to bounce it (although I'm not sure I'll always be able to find somewhere to bounce it off).

Any encouraging advice is most welcome. 

Thanks


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## tirediron (Mar 3, 2016)

I would use shutter priority (Tv) mode to ensure that I was able to freeze the movement of kids hopped up on sugar!  If you can't get the speedlight off of the camera (TTL cable) then at least bounce where possible and diffuse where it's not.  Even something as simple as a translucent Tupperware-style container will work ('though be sure to have a white balance target so that you can colour-correct in post).


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## in2thewild (Mar 3, 2016)

Hi,  
      Thanks for responding. So if I want to bounce the light,  could I use a board covered in tinfoil?  Also,  does it matter how I bounce the light?  For example,  if my subject has more light to the left,  should I place the tinfoil to the right of me so that the light is balanced?  

Thanks for your help.  The party is tomorrow and I was just asked today.  



tirediron said:


> I would use shutter priority (Tv) mode to ensure that I was able to freeze the movement of kids hopped up on sugar!  If you can't get the speedlight off of the camera (TTL cable) then at least bounce where possible and diffuse where it's not.  Even something as simple as a translucent Tupperware-style container will work ('though be sure to have a white balance target so that you can colour-correct in post).


Hi,


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## in2thewild (Mar 3, 2016)

Also,  I have a video light and a soft box.  Could they help?


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## Designer (Mar 3, 2016)

Hi yourself!

No, your reflector does not NEED tinfoil, but you can if you want a certain "intensity/color" of light.  Me, I just went to the art store and bought a few large sheets of white foamcore, which reflect white, of course.  The biggest difficulty will be holding/positioning the reflector(s) in such a way as to reflect light onto your subjects and maybe not blow away.  

A fairly common term that is known on this forum is  "voice-activated light stand", meaning a person who will hold/turn the reflector to where it needs to be.  This sounds easier than it is, because (typically) my eldest grandson would let his mind wander, and the reflector board would soon end up not reflecting the light where it was supposed to be.

And no, I would not try to "balance" the light left/right because then it might start to look flat again, as if you still had the flash directed straight onto your subject.  The opposite of flat light is "modeling light", which defines shapes, such as people's faces.  When you have enough lights/reflectors and "holders" of some type, then you can put light on two sides of your subject, but then you will want to make one the strongest (key light) and the other one weaker (fill light).  

In a party situation, it might be best to bring someone along who will hold the reflector, because you will have to keep on the move, typically for a child's BD party.


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## Designer (Mar 3, 2016)

A video light might help, but even though it looks bright, it might not actually be as bright as you need to stop motion.  An electronic flash will effectively stop motion to keep motion blur to a minimum.


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## beachrat (Mar 3, 2016)

tirediron said:


> I would use shutter priority (Tv) mode to ensure that I was able to freeze the movement of kids hopped up on sugar!  If you can't get the speedlight off of the camera (TTL cable) then at least bounce where possible and diffuse where it's not.  Even something as simple as a translucent Tupperware-style container will work ('though be sure to have a white balance target so that you can colour-correct in post).



I'd think that if it's going to be dark,and a flash will be used that manual would be the way to fly.
The flash should be enough to freeze any of the action.
I'd go somewhere safe around 160th,f5.6 or so and get the iso at an acceptable high end.


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## in2thewild (Mar 3, 2016)

Hi,  
      Thanks. That's really helpful.  So do you think an ezybox with a Canon 430 II flash is good enough to brighten up the outdoor scenes?  I think I'll take mostly photos of people still (I'll ask them to pose for me).  it's my first time using this equipment so I want to get it right as it's for a little girl's birthday. 

Would you combine the video light with the ezybox? 

Thanks! 




Designer said:


> A video light might help, but even though it looks bright, it might not actually be as bright as you need to stop motion.  An electronic flash will effectively stop motion to keep motion blur to a minimum.


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## Designer (Mar 3, 2016)

I haven't tried using a video light in conjunction with my flash, although I've used two flashes to fair success.  

If you're going to try that, better practice a bunch before you go to all the effort to drag everything over there and set it all up only to find some problem during the party.  

As probably most of us would say; get the flash off your camera, or lacking a cable, bounce the light from somewhere off the axis of the lens.  Even a few feet to one side will make much better light than if your flash was coming from right above the lens.  

Be creative; almost anything white or very nearly so will help.  I think I've even used somebody's white shirt to bounce light.  The foamcore boards that I bought are about 60 inches by 40 inches, (approx) but even a smaller one will work.  Keep the reflector fairly close to the subject(s) as long as your flash is mostly pointing at the reflector, it should be fine.


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## Designer (Mar 3, 2016)

This "ezybox"; does that fit your flash?  I've got one of those small cloth things about 12 inches or so, but there again, the flash being right on top of the camera is what you're trying to fix.  

Eventually, you can obtain a cable (or RF remote) and white umbrella with a stand.  I went ahead and bought some of those radio-frequency transceivers so I didn't need the cable anymore.  The cable is kind of limiting as to how far you can move without tipping over the umbrella stand.


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## in2thewild (Mar 3, 2016)

Hi,unfortunately I don't have time to buy any more equipment so I'll have to go with the ezybox and the 430 EX II flash.  I've managed to set up the wireless remote flash so I've taken it off my camera.  

I'm using TV mode currently at 1/80 and 2.8. But of course the lighting changes.  I'll try bouncing now. 

I've noticed though that I don't get the background in focus.  I can take focused shots of people and the light is ok (I'll have to do a lot of editing!)  but how can I get the background lit up also? 

Your advice is so useful; thanks.


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## astroNikon (Mar 3, 2016)

You may find a shutter of 1/80 may give you motion blur from any movement of you, camera, subject.
To light up the background you need light - another light to light up the background.
but if you want the background in focus, you'll need a smaller aperture to increase your Depth of Field..  Which will require slower shutter speeds or higher ISO to compensate.

what you are finding out with your f/2.8 is depth of field ==> Understanding Depth of Field in Photography

personally, I wouldn't worry about the background as long as you get the main subject lite up properly and in focus with good clarity.


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## Designer (Mar 3, 2016)

Experiment with your video light lighting up the background.

As for f/2.8 that is going to give you a very think DOF, meaning front-to-back depth might not be deep enough to keep your entire subject in reasonable focus.  I think it would be o.k. to blur the background, particularly if the background is nothing special.  When using flash, the flash will freeze motion, so as long as you don't exceed the sync speed, your shutter can be set faster.  

As I wrote earlier, do some test shots at home to find out your ideal settings.  Place a mockup subject, outside in the dark, use your flash, and see how it all works.

If you don't have time to get a white umbrella, point the flash right at the white board, and the size of the board reflector should soften the light acceptably.


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## spiralout462 (Mar 3, 2016)

The 430exii can be used as a wireless slave, triggered by the camera's pop-up flash.  This is the easiest way to get the speedlight off axis in my opinion.

It's hard to say what will work best until you get there.  I would arrive early.


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## SquarePeg (Mar 3, 2016)

in2thewild said:


> I think I'll take mostly photos of people still (I'll ask them to pose for me). it's my first time using this equipment so I want to get it right as it's for a little girl's birthday.



I'm sure the mom will be expecting some candids of the little princess at play with her friends.  Those may be difficult to get at night!


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## Braineack (Mar 3, 2016)

I'd set the shutter, aperture, and iso however it take to achieve the background you desire.  I'd then shoot the flash on back curtain sync and ttl.

using tapatalk.


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## spiralout462 (Mar 3, 2016)

SquarePeg said:


> in2thewild said:
> 
> 
> > I think I'll take mostly photos of people still (I'll ask them to pose for me). it's my first time using this equipment so I want to get it right as it's for a little girl's birthday.
> ...



I would save most the posed pics for all the moms with cell phones.  The candid shots are what they wont be able to capture well.


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## in2thewild (Mar 4, 2016)

Hi,  thanks; all good advice. OK,  I guess I'll have to try out a few things at the start before I decide what I can manage (I'm just learning still so this is a tough task). 

I'm going to bring my external flash and use it off the camers but if I can't get good exposure I'll opt for the ezybox diffuser on camera.  What do you think? 

Also,  what can I edit in post production?  I'm wondering what I can realistically aim for in terms of lighting.  Maybe I can fix some things after as long as the photos are moderately exposed and focused? 

Yes,  I'll try candid photos as much as I can (as long as I fix the lighting issue).  I tried last night but the background was dark and when I tried bouncing the flash off a pillar the photo was a little bright. 

Also,  I have a white polystyrene board and I'll see if that helps bouncing light.  I considered making my own white umbrella or using a tinfoil board but I  have to choose because the party is in a few hours!  



Lo camsQUOTE="astroNikon, post: 3597269, member: 154561"]You may find a shutter of 1/80 may give you motion blur from any movement of you, camera, subject.
To light up the background you need light - another light to light up the background.
but if you want the background in focus, you'll need a smaller aperture to increase your Depth of Field..  Which will require slower shutter speeds or higher ISO to compensate.

what you are finding out with your f/2.8 is depth of field ==> Understanding Depth of Field in Photography

personally, I wouldn't worry about the background as long as you get the main subject lite up properly and in focus with good clarity.[/QUOTE]
OK,  thanks


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## in2thewild (Mar 4, 2016)

And I have another question: what is the best lens? 50 mm or 70-200 mm?


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## Designer (Mar 4, 2016)

in2thewild said:


> And I have another question: what is the best lens? 50 mm or 70-200 mm?


Most of my casual shots are with my 18-55mm zoom.  

I would love to tell you the longer zoom lens, but without seeing the space you have available, I don't know for sure.  It really depends on how much physical space there is in the backyard, and how "cluttered" the yard will be with all the people entering your shot.  And you'll be so far away from your subject, that it is going to be difficult to communicate with them effectively.

So with all that, I think the 50mm would be the one I'd use.


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## SquarePeg (Mar 4, 2016)

Take them both but I think you need something wider than 50.


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## in2thewild (Mar 4, 2016)

SquarePeg said:


> Take them both but I think you need something wider than 50.


Thanks.  

I'll try the flash off the camera and if I can't get it to work for me as I'd like I'll just have to diffuse on camera... 

Thanks for your help


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## Designer (Mar 4, 2016)

SquarePeg said:


> Take them both but I think you need something wider than 50.


Yes, got anything wider?


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