# first time commercial job



## lc1102002 (May 21, 2016)

Hi I'm drawing up a price quote for my first commercial product shoot.
the client wants various products shot on white background and a realistic background for use on the website, advertising, brochures etc.  
4  questions: 
1-  is it ok for me to charge an additional design fee for photoshop isolation of these products?  in other words if I shoot on a white background it isnt necessary a design ready isolated product.  is it assumed that this service is included for product photography on a white background?
2- standard license would give them advertising usage and i would hold copyright.  since these items are their exclusive design, engineered by them they may want full copyrights.. not sure how to price this. 
3- should my quote also include my contract? or should i submit my quote and if they accept then send them a contract?
4- what is a reasonable expectation of how i should invoice and expect payment since this is a corporation.  with private individuals i would never turn over the photos until I'm paid in full.  Does same hold true for dealing with corporations? 
thanks


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## tirediron (May 21, 2016)

1.  I wouldn't enter a line item for specific types of post-processing works.  My line is, "X images in Y format to client requirements" or similar and that includes the actual production time for photography as well as post-processing.

2.  Depends on how useful these images would be to you; if they want exclusivity (in other words you can't use the images for your portfolio or anything else, than double the final bill, and if they want copyright, than 3x.  I would not bring this up however.

3.  No.  Your quote should be an ESTIMATION of how much it will cost the company for the work.  Often (usually?) there is some negotiation in contracts.  The only thing I would include is a line which states these prices are based on your retention of copyright and the right to use them personal/self-promotion and portfolio.

4.  I work on a net 30 timeline, and always submit my bill with the product, but in big companies, it's not uncommon for it to take 60-90 days to receive payment.  Whatever you do, do NOT start work until you have a signed contract.


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## lc1102002 (May 21, 2016)

tirediron said:


> 2. Depends on how useful these images would be to you; if they want exclusivity (in other words you can't use the images for your portfolio or anything else, than double the final bill, and if they want copyright, than 3x. I would not bring this up however.


me client and i already touched on this so i need to include the options in the quote.  i guess i am confusing exclusivity and copyrights.  
i had it broken down into 2 options -  
1st standard license for them to use the photos in advertising including website, catalogs, brochures
2nd option was giving them full exclusivity to the photos and copyrights. 
so should i make a 3rd option where i can use the images in my portfolio?  
do you or anyone else here have verbiage that i can copy from?  my wording sounds like it was written by a 12 year old lol.


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## vintagesnaps (May 21, 2016)

Get on American Society of Media Photographers, they have info. on licensing usage, writing contracts, etc. for photography professionals. If you scroll down you should see 'paperwork' share where photographers have shared actual contracts for jobs they did. (I think you have to be a member to see more than a couple of examples.)

I have a book I found out about thru ASMP by Tad Crawford (I think that's the last name, I don't have it handy). It came with a CD and contains sample blank forms you can use. There might be a more recent edition than what I have. And ASMP has apps.

I think it might be more tricky if it involves their designs that I would think they've copyrighted. You might need to do some research on that because that might affect how/if you could use your photos of their original (and copyrighted?) work.


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## <error> (May 21, 2016)

lc1102002 said:


> 2- standard license would give them advertising usage and i would hold copyright.  since these items are their exclusive design, engineered by them they may want full copyrights.. not sure how to price this.



Are you sure you want to make a fuss over that ? Unless these shots are going to be artistic, amaze your pairs, move emotions and create wildfire on Facebook, why bother ? Next year this is old stuff anyway. Transfer copyright and retain simple usage rights for your book. Your client-to-be will appreciate a simple approach to a question most photographers are fundamentalists about.


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## lc1102002 (May 21, 2016)

<error> said:


> Are you sure you want to make a fuss over that ? Unless these shots are going to be artistic, amaze your pairs, move emotions and create wildfire on Facebook, why bother ? Next year this is old stuff anyway. Transfer copyright and retain simple usage rights for your book. Your client-to-be will appreciate a simple approach to a question most photographers are fundamentalists about.


hmmm..im not sure.  i only thought to include it because every example of photography services contracts i've researched makes mention of it. i thought i was being a jackass, not protecting myself by leaving it out lol.


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## tirediron (May 21, 2016)

lc1102002 said:


> ...do you or anyone else here have verbiage that i can copy from?  my wording sounds like it was written by a 12 year old lol.


That's what your lawyer is for!


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## lc1102002 (May 22, 2016)

tirediron said:


> That's what your lawyer is for!


lol i guess if i had a lawyer i wouldn't be asking here.  like i said..its a first time job


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## tirediron (May 22, 2016)

lc1102002 said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> > That's what your lawyer is for!
> ...


Get one!  Seriously - you're playing from a position of serious disadvantage in a situation like this.


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## fmw (May 23, 2016)

I charge by the hour plus expenses.  Pretty simple.  It is appropriate to estimate the costs for the client.   The images belong to the client for them to use as they see fit.


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## tirediron (May 24, 2016)

fmw said:


> I charge by the hour plus expenses.  Pretty simple.  It is appropriate to estimate the costs for the client.   *The images belong to the client for them to use as they see fit.*


Really?  That seems a little "generous" IMO.


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## fmw (May 24, 2016)

tirediron said:


> fmw said:
> 
> 
> > I charge by the hour plus expenses.  Pretty simple.  It is appropriate to estimate the costs for the client.   *The images belong to the client for them to use as they see fit.*
> ...



Yes really.  The most common scenario in commercial photography, a least around here.


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## tirediron (May 24, 2016)

Fair enough; I prefer specified usage.


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