# My New D600's LV SUCKS!!!!!



## Keoki (Feb 11, 2013)

I am severely disappointed in Nikon!  This is my first really expensive camera and there is a lot to love about it.  The learning curve is high, but I'm getting the hang of it.  My boyfriend shoots with a Canon and his LV is perfectly clear and readable.  When he adjusts the aperture and/or shutter speed it assimilates it on the monitor.  That's how it should be.  Nikon isn't so clear and is impossible to see in bright light.  It doesn't assimilate changes in aperture or speed when shooting stills, so to me it's totally useless. I wish I had bought a Canon!  With that said, if Nikon improves their crappy LV in a future model, I will definitely sell my D600 and upgrade.
If anyone has additional thoughts about this, feel free to respond.


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## runnah (Feb 11, 2013)

Seems like a pretty small complaint on an otherwise great camera. Frankly the LV is only good for composition and video. You'll have better luck with using the light meter and then adjusting accordingly.

The LCD screen is really there for menu command and image preview.


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## bunny99123 (Feb 11, 2013)

There is not a perfect camera. Just an owner how thinks it is... Lol I have a Sony A55 and I love mine, but I have a friend that has a Canon 7D, and There are several options  I like on it better than mine. She feels the same about her camera.


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## Mully (Feb 11, 2013)

That is why you have to do your homework when you plunk down that kind of money!


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## sleist (Feb 11, 2013)

I find Live View to be universally irritating and awkward regardless of the camera system.
Even if one is better than the rest, it's really just a matter of sucking less.


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## bhop (Feb 11, 2013)

Live View sucks in general.. (IMO)


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## 2WheelPhoto (Feb 11, 2013)

How do I use liveview on my D800?


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## SCraig (Feb 11, 2013)

2WheelPhoto said:


> How do I use liveview on my D800?



I dunno.  I've never used it for anything either.  Never had a need to since the viewfinder works just fine for me.


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## insignia100 (Feb 11, 2013)

I hate Live View. One of the reasons I was so excited to get a dSLR is so I didn't have to fool with the dang LCD screen!

One thing I do already wish my Nikon D3100 had is a button that closes the aperture so you can see what the DoF will be at a particular f-stop. I've got an old Pentax film SLR that has that feature and I loved it.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Feb 11, 2013)

2WheelPhoto said:


> How do I use liveview on my D800?





SCraig said:


> 2WheelPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > How do I use liveview on my D800?
> ...



OP is implying the canon users use it for stills!


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## skieur (Feb 11, 2013)

The LV screen is faster and easier to use then getting down in the mud or snow in order to use the viewfinder to frame your shot.  It is also perfect for street shooting, since you can shoot from the waist.


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## djacobox372 (Feb 11, 2013)

Complaining about live view on a pro quality camera is like complaining about the cup holders in a Ferrari.


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## sleist (Feb 11, 2013)

skieur said:


> The LV screen is faster and easier to use then getting down in the mud or snow in order to use the viewfinder to frame your shot.  It is also perfect for street shooting, since you can shoot from the waist.



This logic only applies to bodies with tilt screens like the D5X00.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Feb 11, 2013)

djacobox372 said:


> Complaining about live view on a pro quality camera is like complaining about the cup holders in a Ferrari.


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## bunny99123 (Feb 11, 2013)

My Sony has a tilt screen and even moves around.  Never use it.


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## BrianV (Feb 12, 2013)

Keoki said:


> Never mind, today is my Birthday and my 90 year old Mother just handed me a D600!!!!! I can't believe it! She went to the camera store and picked it out with their help. I'm shocked and thrilled!!!



Wow. Your Mom buys you the camera, and you hate the Liveview. Never use LiveView to look a gift-horse in the mouth. You'll get licked every time.

Liveview is secondary on a DSLR. The D600 is the first full-frame Digital camera in this price range.


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## Benco (Feb 12, 2013)

I suggest you persevere with using the VF and don't worry about the LV, by all accounts the D600 is a good quality and reasonably cheap full frame DSLR, LV is pretty irrelevant.


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## ralatalo (Feb 12, 2013)

Keoki said:


> ... It doesn't assimilate changes in aperture or speed when shooting stills, so to me it's totally useless....
> If anyone has additional thoughts about this, feel free to respond.



It has actually been widely reported issue, see dpreview or any of the larger camera reviews of the D600, or web search: "nikon d600 firmware live view" (without the quotes)

I haven't seen any release or time line, so don't know when it will be released.  

As for not being able to see in bright sun, I suspect that's more LCDs displays in general ... for various degrees of bright.

-Robert


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## jamesbjenkins (Feb 12, 2013)

djacobox372 said:


> Complaining about live view on a pro quality camera is like complaining about the cup holders in a Ferrari.



I resent your implication that the D600 is even approaching pro quality, good sir. 

It's a D7000 with a shiny new FX sensor crammed inside, with a couple extra bells and whistles and a whole lot of intentionally gimped features.


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## gsgary (Feb 12, 2013)

I wish every woman did


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## rexbobcat (Feb 12, 2013)

I like live view on my Canon. It makes landscapes and starscapes so much easier since I've learned not to trust the meter in the camera lol.

It makes up for the other gimped features of my Canon.

I can't buy into the whole "LV is omg so worthless, no pros use it, only the noobs use it, everyone needs aight meter blah blah"


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## Mike_E (Feb 12, 2013)

jamesbjenkins said:


> djacobox372 said:
> 
> 
> > Complaining about live view on a pro quality camera is like complaining about the cup holders in a Ferrari.
> ...



A *Pro* camera is one you make money with.



Just saying.


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## Benco (Feb 12, 2013)

rexbobcat said:


> I like live view on my Canon. It makes landscapes and starscapes so much easier since I've learned not to trust the meter in the camera lol.
> 
> It makes up for the other gimped features of my Canon.
> 
> I can't buy into the whole "LV is omg so worthless, no pros use it, only the noobs use it, everyone needs aight meter blah blah"



Bit of a straw man there. it's not about shooting like a pro, it's about using your kit for what's it's good for and one of the best things about a DSLR is that it gives you all the SLR advantages. If one's going to bag a DSLR for the sake of it's live view then maybe one doesn't need a DSLR, there's plenty of good mirrorless cameras out there if live view is your thing that don't have all that bulk that the SLR mechanism entails.

I see the likeness has been drawn of disliking a ferrari for it's cupholders but I see it more as using a Hummer for shopping trips and picking up your kids from school, sure it can do it but it's not what it's designed for and there are other vehicles that are better suited for your requirments.


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## skieur (Feb 12, 2013)

bunny99123 said:


> My Sony has a tilt screen and even moves around.  Never use it.



Perhaps you should.  My view is that considering the fact that you have paid for the feature, you might as well use it and see if it helps your shooting.  I avoid getting into a rut and force myself to experiment with new features to see if they can work for my style.

skieur


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## rexbobcat (Feb 12, 2013)

Benco said:
			
		

> Bit of a straw man there. it's not about shooting like a pro, it's about using your kit for what's it's good for and one of the best things about a DSLR is that it gives you all the SLR advantages. If one's going to bag a DSLR for the sake of it's live view then maybe one doesn't need a DSLR, there's plenty of good mirrorless cameras out there if live view is your thing that don't have all that bulk that the SLR mechanism entails.
> 
> I see the likeness has been drawn of disliking a ferrari for it's cupholders but I see it more as using a Hummer for shopping trips and picking up your kids from school, sure it can do it but it's not what it's designed for and there are other vehicles that are better suited for your requirments.



Nobody said they bought a DSLR just for LV.

In referring to people who are down on LV because they think it somehow makes a photographer "inferior"

It strikes me as being in the same vein of photographers who snub their nose at Lightroom presets and Photoshop actions. Lol


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## skieur (Feb 12, 2013)

Benco said:


> I suggest you persevere with using the VF and don't worry about the LV, by all accounts the D600 is a good quality and reasonably cheap full frame DSLR, LV is pretty irrelevant.



The Nikon D90 with onyl 12 megapixels beats the D600 at ISO 1600 in both less noise and more sharpness if you compare images.

skieur


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## Benco (Feb 12, 2013)

skieur said:


> Benco said:
> 
> 
> > I suggest you persevere with using the VF and don't worry about the LV, by all accounts the D600 is a good quality and reasonably cheap full frame DSLR, LV is pretty irrelevant.
> ...



er...and what has that to do with the LV on the D600?


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## sleist (Feb 12, 2013)

skieur said:


> Benco said:
> 
> 
> > I suggest you persevere with using the VF and don't worry about the LV, by all accounts the D600 is a good quality and reasonably cheap full frame DSLR, LV is pretty irrelevant.
> ...



No it doesn't.  Not if you compare properly exposed images.


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## rexbobcat (Feb 12, 2013)

skieur said:
			
		

> The Nikon D90 with onyl 12 megapixels beats the D600 at ISO 1600 in both less noise and more sharpness if you compare images.
> 
> skieur



Empirical evidence please.


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## skieur (Feb 12, 2013)

rexbobcat said:


> skieur said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



www.imaging-resource.com  The test image comparisons


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## rexbobcat (Feb 12, 2013)

skieur said:
			
		

> www.imaging-resource.com  The test image comparisons



DXO Mark and other reviews such as Photozone say otherwise. At ISO 1600 it's not all that spectacular. It's about the same amount of noise as my 60D which is "meh."

Not bad but considering that the D90 is 12 bit and the D600 is 14 bit with more resolution, larger sensor, and with newer tech, I think I'll have to go with the FF camera.

But if I do recall you also argued that the A77 is a good lowlight performer so I assume this post will be disregarded. It's w/e


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## sleist (Feb 13, 2013)

????

I own the D90 as well as the D700.  There is no way that the D90 sensor surpasses the D700 in handing high ISO.
The D600 would need to be far worse than the D700 for the D90 to be better.  That is simply not what I have seen.


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## greybeard (Feb 13, 2013)

I have to agree, LV sucks on my d7000 too.  It's ok for composition on a tripod but that is about it.


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## jake337 (Feb 13, 2013)

my LV works just fine on my aging D90....

But heck, i usually have my settings dialed in _before_ i switch to live view.


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## skieur (Feb 14, 2013)

rexbobcat said:


> skieur said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



As any photographer should well know, the bottom line is side by side image comparisons.  Use your eyes and you will see the noise and sharpness differences on imaging-resource.com.

I argued that the A77 was as good as any other camera at ISO 1600, which is true if you look at the images side by side on this website.

NOTE: imaging-resource. com has NO bias toward any particular make of camera and subjects them ALL to the same photo tests,  unlike some other reviewers.

skieur


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## skieur (Feb 14, 2013)

sleist said:


> ????
> 
> I own the D90 as well as the D700.  There is no way that the D90 sensor surpasses the D700 in handing high ISO.
> The D600 would need to be far worse than the D700 for the D90 to be better.  That is simply not what I have seen.



I don't see any examples of the same shot, same lighting taken with both cameras.


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## skieur (Feb 14, 2013)

rexbobcat said:


> skieur said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Your argument is pretty weak, if you have to degenerate into misreading my former post.

skieur


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## JackLee198 (Feb 15, 2013)

Hello everyone

Maybe i m doing something wrong and i'd be very grateful if somebody points me
to the right path. But i hv found autofocus on DSLR (in my case 7D with
EF-S 10-22mm) to be real menace. At first i think it is hardware problem.i sent 
it service center,but they told me every thing is ok in my cam.

It is extremely frustrating and really ruins my day down there, that's why I


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## ralphh (Feb 15, 2013)

I used to think of liveview as pointless on a DSLR until I got my 85L, now I find it surprisingly useful for portraits...


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## .SimO. (Feb 15, 2013)

JackLee198 said:


> Hello everyone
> 
> Maybe i m doing something wrong and i'd be very grateful if somebody points me
> to the right path. But i hv found autofocus on DSLR (in my case 7D with
> ...



Both camera body and lens are fantastic. Doubt those are the problems.  I have the 600d and the 10-22 and seems to work fantastic as long as my settings are adjusted for what i'm trying to focus on.



In regards to LV, I utilize Live View for landscape shots where I am trying to get a very sharp image.  With a tripod of course, I AF first, then magnify and sharpen accordingly.  That's usually the only time I use it on my T3i.  As for getting down and dirty for the hard to reach shots, that's is part of the fun for me.  I like getting in near neck-breaking situations, lol.  Maybe that's just me though...


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## cgipson1 (Feb 15, 2013)

I will use live view for really precise Macro focusing... and sometimes for focus stacking (although I am usually tethered to a laptop / larger screen for that). It sounds to me more like the OP needs to learn how the Live View works on that body rather than just dismiss it like this.


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## ralphh (Feb 15, 2013)

^^^  Indeed - the cameras I've owned with LV have exposure simulation on or off modes...

Called various different things - 
Eexposure simulation on Canon - _on _being LV matches exposure
Liveview Boost (or something similar) on Olympus - _off _being LV matches exposure

You sure you've not jsut got something set wrong?  The default settings are not always what makes sense to you...


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## Solarflare (Feb 15, 2013)

About the Canon alternative:  the Canon 6D, on second sight, is indeed a much better deal than it looks like on the first sight.

Yes you only get 11 point AF, but the middle point is extra sensitive (-3 EV) AND ironically these mere 11 AF points are MUCH better distributed than the 39 AF points of the Nikon D600. So actually I would prefer the 6D AF over the D600 AF, even if its technically inferior. But it is more practical.

Yes you get a lesser noise performance, and better dynamic range etc. BUT Canon included stronger and apparently pretty good noise reduction algorithms (I've seen multiple YouTube videos and website articles of clueless noobs who claim the ISO performance of the 6D would be better. Even DigitalRev claimed that) AND the camera allows you to go to ISO 102,400 while the D600 for some odd reason only allows ISO 25,600 at Maximum, despite being pretty noise free even at this maximum.

So yeah, bravo Canon, you created a pretty fierce competition for the D600.

There are details I dislike, though. No second memory card slot for making a backup of your picture. On/Off switch not right next to the release button.

And there are features of the D600 I find most highly appealing, like the silent shutter.

Ultimately, my ideal camera would be a D600 with a more reasonable distribution of AF points. And I really would like to have a flipscreen on it, too.  Then I could live with the little faults the OP mentioned, like no change of aperture when using Lifeview. Yeah, annoying, but not dealbreaker. Also I would put up with the other faults of the camera, like often oil spots on the sensor for the first 3k acutation, or lack of 1/8000 sec shutter speed despite the fact the successor in spirit (D7000) has that. The silent shutter and the fantastic sensor makes all that worthwile.





bunny99123 said:


> My Sony has a tilt screen and even moves around.  Never use it.


 I use my 5100 flip screen all the time. Really anytime I want to have an unusual perspective.





ralatalo said:


> As for not being able to see in bright sun, I suspect that's more LCDs displays in general ... for various degrees of bright.


 Since its so fun to quote Ken Rockwell, for after you quote him nobody wants to take you serious anymore, here goes: Nikon vs Canon:


> *LCD Quality*
> 
> As of 2012, Nikon's four new full-frame DSLRs (D600, D800, D800E and D4) share a problem new to DSLRs: they tend to be a bit too yellow when new! We have to depend on the accuracy of our LCDs, and Nikon has taken a step back in 2012.
> 
> ...







skieur said:


> The Nikon D90 with onyl 12 megapixels beats the D600 at ISO 1600 in both less noise and more sharpness if you compare images.


 Err, sorry, but thats an older APS-C sensor vs a brand new FF sensor. Even the D600 24 Megapixel pixel size is still (a little) larger than the D90 12 Megapixel pixel size. The DxOMark rating differences between these two is also extreme.

So unless you want to claim that Nikon actually LOST knowhow between the construction of the D90 in 2008 and the construction of the D600 in 2012, I would say its pretty safe to say you're wrong.

Unfortunately noise is a highly complex issue. With the right program and optimizing noise reduction by hand, one can get really impressive results. I've seen example images at ISO 25,600 out of a µ4/3" camera that had no visible noise at all. Doesnt mean that images from such a camera WITHOUT noise reduction will not have a lot of noise in them.


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## djacobox372 (Feb 16, 2013)

jamesbjenkins said:


> I resent your implication that the D600 is even approaching pro quality, good sir.
> 
> It's a D7000 with a shiny new FX sensor crammed inside, with a couple extra bells and whistles and a whole lot of intentionally gimped features.



Lol, okay maybe I overstated but so are u; both the the d7000 and d600 are at definatly approaching pro quality.


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## Mach0 (Feb 16, 2013)

sleist said:


> ????
> 
> I own the D90 as well as the D700.  There is no way that the D90 sensor surpasses the D700 in handing high ISO.
> The D600 would need to be far worse than the D700 for the D90 to be better.  That is simply not what I have seen.



X2
I still love my d90 but the d700 is muchhhhhhh better at high ISO.


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## cosmonaut (Feb 17, 2013)

Well all cameras systems have their drawbacks. I have the D800 and love the image quality but I do have focusing issues. My old Olympus E5 focused much better. LV or not.
The best all around system I have is my a99. It is as close to perfect as I have ever got. There is really little to complain about.


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## Keoki (Feb 18, 2013)

One of my issues is that my eyesight changes slightly daily.  I use the viewfinder to compose the picture but LV is a good way to zoom in tight for spot on focus.  I shoot macro most often.
My boyfriends Canon is  clear as a bell.  My is really difficult to see.  I just bought a hoodman to help out.  It's ok.  I still wish LV was more useful.
BTW, for a previous comment, my dear 90 year old Mom did surprise me with my D600 for my birthday, true.  I treasure it.


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## Merlin87 (Feb 19, 2013)

If the year that I have owned my D7000, I have used LV once, and that was when I held the camera up over a fence to get a shot.  I have never liked LV.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Feb 19, 2013)

OP may want a Sony


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