# Have you noticed?



## KmH (Aug 30, 2009)

A sizable percentage of the posters asking questions in the various forums don't type capital letters.

The vast majority of the people that reply to these queries, *DO* use capital letters.

:scratch::scratch::scratch::scratch::scratch:


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## Jaszek (Aug 30, 2009)

Lol. I just saw the other post you replied to. The one with macro.


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## Derrel (Aug 30, 2009)

KmH wrote, " ....A sizable percentage of the posters asking questions in the various forums don't type capitol letters.

The vast majority of the people that reply to these queries, DO use capitol letters."

Uh, yeah, I have noticed that. I try to use capital letters in my replies, but a lot of younger people who do a lot of texting and IM communication skip the use of capital letters much or most of the time.

I did a quick look-up just for background:
 Main Entry: cap·i·tal
Pronunciation: 'ka-p&-t&l, 'kap-t&l
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English capitale, modification of Old North French capitel, from Late Latin capitellum small head, top of column, diminutive of Latin capit-, caput head -- more at HEAD
Date: 13th century


So, we can see that people who do not use capital letters might perhaps have small heads. (grin)


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## KmH (Aug 30, 2009)

Derrel said:


> KmH wrote, " ....A sizable percentage of the posters asking questions in the various forums don't type capitol letters.
> 
> The vast majority of the people that reply to these queries, DO use capitol letters."
> 
> ...


Doh! I corrected my spelling error by the way.

So true about the IM, texting generation. The dumbing down of America continues apace.

The attitude reminds me of a bumper sticker I once saw. It said, "Hire a teenager.......while they still know it all."

It seems todays youth, in many ways, is taking longer to mature.

It also seems many of the IM, texting generation don't really understand how to use the Internet to their best advantage. Or more properly, they use the Internet in a way that guarantees their knowledge base is as narrow as possible.


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## Jaszek (Aug 30, 2009)

I think I know how to use the internet. What website do you think I spend most of my internet time on? lol


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## c.cloudwalker (Aug 30, 2009)

KmH said:


> It seems todays youth, in many ways, is taking longer to mature.



I would be surprised if your parents generation didn't think the same. :lmao:

Overall, true, there is a dumbing down of the population but aren't teachers (and I mean that in the widest sense possible which would of course include parents, medias, body politic, etc) to blame? After all most people don't learn what they are not taught. And most people learn by example. Who do you think their examples are?

The one thing that may have changed (I would have to ask my parents) is that, today, we seem to glorify dumbness. How long before you get the usual "grammar nazi" post?


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## Derrel (Aug 30, 2009)

On a related note to what KmH mentioned, that many young people today use the Internet in such a way as to guarantee that their knowledge base is as small as possible, I think there's a generational issue at work between the young and the middle aged people in the world,and that is that younger people tend to post much,much shorter messages than do people in their forties and fifties.

My wife was reading a humorous article to me the other day,and the web-based article was entitled something like, "How to Know if the Hot Babe You're Chatting with is Really a Cougar." One of the ways to tell if it's a 20-something versus a 40-something woman was , "She sends you e-mails longer than 50 words". Another was, "She uses punctuation and capital letters when texting."

I have noticed on many web boards where the predominant age is 30 or lower, that longer posts are frowned upon,very strongly. Often the supreme insult to an in-depth post is issued,and it goes something like this: "No need to write a book,dude." All over something like 200-300 words.

And speaking of the Internet; many young people today have absolutely NO IDEA what Usenet is, or what a goldmine lies hidden there, just a software app and a few domain entry fields away--all they seem to know is the web. "Hire a teenager.......while they still know it all." Oh, man, I gotta' find that bumper sticker!


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## Dagwood56 (Aug 30, 2009)

When I was in school using a calculator to do math problems was not allowed, we used that old fashioned stuff called a pencil and paper and did it with our brains! How can kids learn if a machine does it for them? 

I can deal with the use of no capitals, but I must grit my teeth to keep from saying anything about the "text messaging" style of writing.....and spelling? Don't get me started on spelling! There is one member here who constantly uses a "word" that just makes me want to scream. "Probably" is it so difficult, does it really take that much extra time, to add the 2 "B's" ? The "word" I speak of is "Prolly"! I sometimes wonder if they actually think its spelled like that!

Getting back to the original subject; I believe much of the grammar and spelling problems with today's young people stems from learning to read phonetically. How can anyone learn to spell correctly when learning to read like this? 

Teachers today don't teach -they babysit! I'm not blaming the teachers for this though, its the society we live in, its what society has deemed as the correct way for teachers to "teach". ....I will now get off my soap box.


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## Aye-non Oh-non Imus (Aug 30, 2009)

Dagwood56 said:


> How can anyone learn to spell *corectly* when learning to read like this?


:taped sh: 




I'm in total agreement with the frustration with the lack of punctuation, misuse of grammar, run-on sentences and the inability to put a coherent thought together in either their question, answer or comment. Although not always the case, many on those that bastardize the English language (where English is their first language) also show short comings in the images they post. I don't know if there is a direct correlation, but I find it curious.


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## Dagwood56 (Aug 30, 2009)

Aye-non Oh-non Imus said:


> Dagwood56 said:
> 
> 
> > How can anyone learn to spell *corectly* when learning to read like this?
> ...


 
Fixed it.


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## Dmitri (Aug 30, 2009)

wow, you guys sure r on a hi horse 4 peeple who dont speek english right,

--------------
Cnut cyning gret his arcebiscopas and his leod-biscopas and Þurcyl eorl and ealle his eorlas and ealne his þeodscype, twelfhynde and twyhynde, gehadode and læwede, on Englalande freondlice.

Old English - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
--------------------

Somewhere there's a higher horse than yours just laughing down on y'all 

23 skidoo!


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## Jaszek (Aug 30, 2009)

Hey, I don't speak English right, you have a problem with that? lol. Just kidding. I notice that in school (going into senior year in High School now). When the teacher makes us proof read each others work sometimes I just want to laugh. People who were born here are worse in grammar than some one that came to the US about 8 years ago (that would be me ).


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## monkeykoder (Aug 30, 2009)

c.cloudwalker said:


> KmH said:
> 
> 
> > It seems todays youth, in many ways, is taking longer to mature.
> ...



Of course anyone should know 99% of the difficulty of being a teacher nowadays is getting the students to care enough to open their books.  No matter how much they are given in a classroom they'll never learn if they aren't interested in learning.


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## c.cloudwalker (Aug 30, 2009)

Jaszek said:


> Hey, I don't speak English right, you have a problem with that? lol. Just kidding. I notice that in school (going into senior year in High School now). When the teacher makes us proof read each others work sometimes I just want to laugh. People who were born here are worse in grammar than some one that came to the US about 8 years ago (that would be me ).



I've experienced this myself a number of times when I go to France. My french is far from perfect but people who don't know me are always surprised that an American would speak their language so well  and I've been told a number of times that my french is better than that of most french people.

There is a very simple reason to that. Those are foreign languages. We had to study to learn them and if we studied with the right teacher we tend to speak them (and write too) very well while a native speaker learns as a matter of fact. Only those interested in the correct use of their language will make an effort to learn the subtleties of it.

And unfortunately language is very low on the list of skills of interest to most people today.

You have probably heard that immigrants usually know more about our history and political system than a great percentage of Americans. Same basic story. They need to study it to get their citizenship and that is way more important to them than a diploma is to the average high-schooler.

Cheers.


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## Big (Aug 30, 2009)

With all the instant messaging and texting going on these days, kids are in huge trouble when it comes to writing letters to anyone of importance. Instead, it makes them look like an uneducated fool.


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## c.cloudwalker (Aug 30, 2009)

monkeykoder said:


> c.cloudwalker said:
> 
> 
> > KmH said:
> ...



This is unfortunately only somewhat true. There are bad teachers. There are more and more of them. I have met more than a few teachers who can barely spell.

Anyone watches "Are you smarter than a 5th grader?" I love that show. Every time they announce a teacher, I get goosebumps, feeling sorry for them in anticipation as most of them do very poorly. Honestly, I still haven't won the million dollar myself but when I see a teacher sent home at the 2nd or 3rd question, I can only be glad that my kids are long out of school.

But I don't blame good teachers for this situation. I realize that it is not an easy job (not one I would want) and that part of the problem is that we do not to pay teachers enough, make their jobs safe, etc, etc, for those who could be good teachers to be interested.

And as is so often the case, which we could compare to photography, we get what we pay for.


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## c.cloudwalker (Aug 30, 2009)

Big said:


> With all the instant messaging and texting going on these days, kids are in huge trouble when it comes to writing letters to anyone of importance. Instead, it makes them look like an uneducated fool.



Hi Big! Very interesting idea. I've been saying for a few years now that we are going to revive a very old profession from Europe soon. That of public writers.

Public writers, for those who have never heard of it, were better educated people writing those so very important letters to the powers that be in your stead. I could make a very good living today writing those letters, doing simple W-2 tax returns, etc if I wasn't doing it for free as a volunteer.


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## musicaleCA (Aug 30, 2009)

c.cloudwalker said:


> And unfortunately language is very low on the list of skills of interest to most people today.



I honestly find it hard to understand why that is. I mean, learning how to use my language properly is of a great concern to me; if I can't speak and write then how in the world can I expect to communicate effectively? Granted, I ignore a lot of rules for the sake of expediency on forums and the internet; I tend not to use en or em dashes when they are called for, and instead use commas. However, given that most people don't know how to use an en or em dash anyway, I don't feel bad about being lazy.

Thank goodness I had a great English teacher in grades 10 and 12. He got us to really care about learning English correctly, and in grade 12 was he EVER a hard-ass stickler for following the rules. If you messed-up your usage of a semi-colon he'd let you know it, and perhaps even make an (anonymous) example of it for the class. That man is the reason I know how to use a semi-colon at all, let alone en or em dashes, or the proper use of "however" (and my utter disdain for superlativeswow, I really learned a lot from that guy...).


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## monkeykoder (Aug 30, 2009)

c.cloudwalker said:


> monkeykoder said:
> 
> 
> > c.cloudwalker said:
> ...



Yeah I know quite a few high school teachers actually the pay isn't all that bad if you factor in the benefits however I've also met quite a few people going to teach elementary school and it was quite scary the difference between them and the high school teachers I've known.


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## c.cloudwalker (Aug 30, 2009)

monkeykoder said:


> the pay isn't all that bad if you factor in the benefits



True in some areas. BS in others. What happens when all the teachers move to the decent paying areas? Do you know there are barely any OB/GYNs left in West VA because of the problems they have practicing there? I'll grant you this is a very different subject but the problem is the same. We need to get real.

Personally I see teachers as one of the most important people/profession in society. Which also means that I see the entire educational system as very important. Unfortunately, our government doesn't. Local, state, federal, not much difference.

More and more important as parents themselves have less and less time or interest in dealing with it.


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## Dmitri (Aug 30, 2009)

And again...

_"Human languages are usually referred to as natural languages, and the science of studying them falls under the purview of linguistics. Acommon progression for natural languages is that they are considered to be* first spoken, then written, and then an understanding and explanation of their grammar is attempted.*

 Languages live, die, move from place to place, and change with time. Any language that ceases to change or develop is categorized as a dead language. *Conversely, any language that is in a continuous state of change is known as a *__*living language or modern language.*"_

Language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What you are witnessing is called linquistic evolution, and is constantly happening. Your parents whined "kids these days", your grandparents whined about "kids these days", etc. all the way back until they were speaking Indo-European, and beyond.

And in case you think that English is static and never changing, here's a bit of Beowulf (in old English, from only about 1000 years ago):
"HWÆT, WE GAR-DEna in geardagum, 
  þeodcyninga þrym gefrunon, 
  hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon!"


Honestly, your belief that people who don't speak English the way that you do are somehow "dumbed down" really just shows your lack of understanding about how languages evolve.


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## PhotoXopher (Aug 30, 2009)

I call it "IM'Bonics"


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## HeY iTs ScOTtY (Aug 30, 2009)

:meh:


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## PhotoXopher (Aug 30, 2009)

What?

That was funny.

Laugh, damnit!


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## HeY iTs ScOTtY (Aug 30, 2009)

i was referring to the original post...sorry for not quoting.

as for your post - 

if you read my posts and threads you will realize i am a prime target for this thread :er:. my thought and reason for not capitalizing is i really just don't care about it in a forum setting. whether it makes me look dumb or whatever i don't care. i don't know any of you anyway and you are not going to effect my life in any way. plus i can type faster if i don't capitalize so thats the main reason. i do however spell check most of the time. say what you want and call me what you want but its just a internet forum. if it bothers you that much you have to much time on your hands and you should worry about more important things other than how other people type and spell. :greenpbl:


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## Jaszek (Aug 30, 2009)

I think this will go to the Internet Supreme Court. As a fine they might slow down your internet connection, and give you a sticky keyboard.


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## olla86 (Sep 2, 2009)

KmH said:


> A sizable percentage of the posters asking questions in the various forums don't type capital letters.
> 
> The vast majority of the people that reply to these queries, *DO* use capital letters.
> 
> :scratch::scratch::scratch::scratch::scratch:


Is it a problem? Dont worry! All people are individuality


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## johngpt (Sep 4, 2009)

Dmitri said:


> Cnut cyning gret his arcebiscopas and his leod-biscopas and Þurcyl eorl and ealle his eorlas and ealne his þeodscype, twelfhynde and twyhynde, gehadode and læwede, on Englalande freondlice.
> 
> Old English - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Great quote Dmitri!




Big said:


> With all the instant messaging and texting going on these days, kids are in huge trouble when it comes to writing letters to anyone of importance. Instead, it makes them look like an uneducated fool.


Until they themselves become the managers doing the hiring, and then the playing field has changed once more!

Dmitri, it was great reading your later post, in which you speak about living versus dead languages. I once viewed with dismay what I perceived to be the dumbing down of our language. I think now you may have the right of it.  Our language is evolving. I'll just have to get over it. :mrgreen:


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## rufus5150 (Sep 4, 2009)

AT LEAST PEOPLE AREN'T TYPING IN ALL CAPS MUCH ANY MORE. 

oh wait. damn.


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## johngpt (Sep 4, 2009)

LOL

oh, damn.


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## spiffybeth (Sep 8, 2009)

i suppose that im also a target of this thread because i never capitalize and i typically only use apostrophes when i feel like it.  and im younger than 30.

if you think im dumb because i dont capitalize, then im inclined to think youre dumb to judge me based on my internet typing.  im not here to impress you and its pathetic that you (the collective you rather than the OP or anyone else in this thread) think i am.  

my typing is grammatically correct.  if you dont like my posts because i dont capitalize, then dont read them.

i think its pretty dumb to think that typing on forums or in IMs or in text messaging is how people actually type when they are writing something important.......

the only generalization i agree with is not wanting to read long posts.


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## musicaleCA (Sep 8, 2009)

I've seen people write resumés without capitals. *That's* bad. Actually, I wouldn't even bother with people like that, even for a part-time, low-level job. As for internet typing, frankly, lack of correct grammar and capitalization just makes you look uneducated and/or lazy. Such things are an annoyance on forums, but they are unforgivable in professional correspondence.

Oh, and Rufus: CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL!!!


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## manaheim (Sep 8, 2009)

People have been shaking their fists in the air and decrying "KIDS THESE DAYS!!" at least as far back as Socrates... and the kids have always looked up at their elders and shook their heads in bemusement. Those kids then grew up to decry the next generation with just as much concern and disgust.

Mind you, I'm not going to start wearing my pants around my ankles, but I think learning a lesson from several hundred generations previous to us might be in order.


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## Samanax (Sep 8, 2009)

*Idiocracy * - might actually be a prophecy.


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## johngpt (Sep 8, 2009)

manaheim said:


> Mind you, I'm not going to start wearing my pants around my ankles,



I'm now wearing my pants up at my armpits... :lmao:


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## kundalini (Sep 9, 2009)

manaheim said:


> Mind you, I'm not going to start wearing my pants around my ankles,


 


johngpt said:


> I'm now wearing my pants up at my armpits... :lmao:


   I'm not wearing ANY pants.


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## manaheim (Sep 9, 2009)

Pray sir... do tell... what are these things you call... pants.


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## Dmitri (Sep 9, 2009)

manaheim said:


> Pray sir... do tell... what are these things you call... pants.



Pants - it's what dogses does when they are hot.


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## manaheim (Sep 9, 2009)

*We loves the dogses!*


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## musicaleCA (Sep 9, 2009)

Samanax said:


> *Idiocracy * - might actually be a prophecy.



Oh dear gods...please no...please...never...please!!!


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## Jaszek (Sep 9, 2009)

Samanax said:


> *Idiocracy * - might actually be a prophecy.


I'll probably be dead by then, unless the Human Genome Project makes some huge discoveries in the next couple of years.


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## Jaszek (Sep 9, 2009)

BTW I wonder how many people actually know what the HGP is lol.


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## Dmitri (Sep 9, 2009)

Jaszek said:


> Samanax said:
> 
> 
> > *Idiocracy * - might actually be a prophecy.
> ...




I thought you wrote "The Human-Gnome Project" and got all excited.


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## johngpt (Sep 10, 2009)

Dmitri said:


> Jaszek said:
> 
> 
> > Samanax said:
> ...



Not more panting!


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## Tee_bird (Sep 10, 2009)

I'm at the young, tender age of 20, and it annoys ME when people don't capitalize or punctuate.  I may not be 100% OMG perfect grammar, but I try.


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## c.cloudwalker (Sep 10, 2009)

Dmitri said:


> I thought you wrote "The Human-Gnome Project" and got all excited.



Same here. I love Gnomes.

I was a big friend of the GLA (Gnome Liberation Army) and their happenings. Extremely funny. I thought about starting a similar thing here in N. America with pink flamingoes. Just too darn busy.


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## UUilliam (Sep 10, 2009)

I have only scanned page 1,
I am only 17
But I detest Mobile Phones

The place that I work in, there was a girl who was always on her Mobile, texting...

She was always slacking...
There was so much I hated about her, I feel ashamed to be growing up in this generation where over 50% of the teenagers are out havign sex with random people every week and don't care to work or put effort into anything.

Also spray tans... GRRRR grinding my gears... Why would anyone want to be orange? Foundation and a subtle hint of blush and possibly gloss is enough in my honest opinion.

Anyways, the girl was always bragging how she is staying with a different guy each week, having sex (she is only 16...)
it really does disgust me that almost everyone is Whores in this day and age, And no-one understands why I dont want a girlfriend, Thats why, They are either whores, or money grabbers, or they will cheat

Obviously there is some decent people out there... but VERY hard to find.

Also binge drinking is horrible too... and smoking.
obviously drugs too.


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## c.cloudwalker (Sep 10, 2009)

Tee_bird said:


> I'm at the young, tender age of 20, and it annoys ME when people don't capitalize or punctuate.  I may not be 100% OMG perfect grammar, but I try.



:thumbup:

Nobody's perfect. We type quickly and miss a couple things. Who cares?

But when someone doesn't care at all, it's obvious and annoying. Although, tbh, this is far from the worst site I've seen.


What is UU talking about? Did I miss something?


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## UUilliam (Sep 10, 2009)

c.cloudwalker said:


> Tee_bird said:
> 
> 
> > I'm at the young, tender age of 20, and it annoys ME when people don't capitalize or punctuate.  I may not be 100% OMG perfect grammar, but I try.
> ...



Lol, Yeah i do seem to go off-topic a little,
But i was just furthering my hate for my generation 
Reason I speak of mobile phones is because in an earlier post people were blaming Mobile phones for todays bad Grammar


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## Dmitri (Sep 10, 2009)

johngpt said:


> Dmitri said:
> 
> 
> > Jaszek said:
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But can you imagine? Humans and Gnomes working together? There would be no limit to the crazy inventions!


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## c.cloudwalker (Sep 10, 2009)

Well UU don't hate.

Hate is a negative use of positive energy 

Seriously, we're all different. Why hate? Just ignore what you don't like.


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## Tee_bird (Sep 10, 2009)

Dmitri said:


> johngpt said:
> 
> 
> > Dmitri said:
> ...


Humans and Gnomes already _do_ work together.  They're both Alliance, dumb dumb.


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## c.cloudwalker (Sep 10, 2009)

Alliance?


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## Tee_bird (Sep 10, 2009)

c.cloudwalker said:


> Alliance?


World of Warcraft. :mrgreen:


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## Dmitri (Sep 10, 2009)

Tee_bird said:


> Humans and Gnomes already _do_ work together.  They're both Alliance, dumb dumb.



Well.. Gnomes do all the work, humans take the credit


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## manaheim (Sep 10, 2009)

pfft... Necrons 4tw.


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## johngpt (Sep 10, 2009)

Tee_bird said:


> I'm at the young, tender age of 20, and it annoys ME when people don't capitalize or punctuate.  I may not be 100% OMG perfect grammar, but I try.


And cute too!

... lecherous old man drools and mumbles as he shuffles off...


:lmao:


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## Dmitri (Sep 15, 2009)




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## spiffybeth (Sep 15, 2009)

and i bet that's how all people younger than 30 talk too!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





(by the way, that video is hilarious)


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## Overread (Sep 15, 2009)

manaheim said:


> pfft... Necrons 4tw.



pfffffft NIDS FOR like THE WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

we will, like, eat you, like,  metalhead!


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## manaheim (Sep 15, 2009)

Overread said:


> manaheim said:
> 
> 
> > pfft... Necrons 4tw.
> ...


 
*makes a buzzing noise and inexorably plods over the dead carapaces of thousands of dead bugs...*


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## Overread (Sep 15, 2009)

And thus it was that the scout party was killed

billions more of us to come!


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## johngpt (Sep 15, 2009)

spiffybeth said:


> and i bet that's how all people younger than 30 talk too!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'll bet it won't take long for him to become more accustomed to speaking at press conferences. It must be quite intimidating at first. He seems like a nice enough kid. Someday this vid will be shown at a friar's roast of him after his 11th season in the NFL, and he'll laugh along with everyone.


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## spiffybeth (Sep 24, 2009)

this is from a luncheon that a guy i know attended at Penn State regarding how we young ones write.

Guy from PSU dept. of English said there is no solid evidence that writing is worse, and very, very, VERY few instances of text style stuff making it into college student writing. 

In fact, he said that using social media has made writing better for two reasons:

- They have to write for a specific audience, something they never really did much before

- They are writing now more than ever before

Faculty at Penn State who have a course blog report student writing improves immensely over the course of the semester. This is especially true if it is an open blog, meaning the public can view it.


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## johngpt (Sep 24, 2009)

Beth, very interesting. 

And awesome avatar!


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## helloyo53 (Sep 24, 2009)

Well I guess I'm too mature then for you guys because I'm 13 and I post fine (at least I think so).


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## johngpt (Sep 24, 2009)

helloyo53 said:


> Well I guess I'm too mature then for you guys because I'm 13 and I post fine (at least I think so).


My wife says I'm the same as I was at 13.


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## spiffybeth (Sep 28, 2009)

johngpt said:


> helloyo53 said:
> 
> 
> > Well I guess I'm too mature then for you guys because I'm 13 and I post fine (at least I think so).
> ...


you two knew each other at 13? that's really incredible!


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## johngpt (Sep 29, 2009)

spiffybeth said:


> johngpt said:
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> 
> > helloyo53 said:
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No, no!

She's just a good judge of character!  

(of course, if she was that good, why'd she marry me?)


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