# US Government Closure- killing my plans!



## cbarnard7 (Oct 1, 2013)

Hey All,


This isn't to become a political debate, so let's not let it go there-

I'm just irritated because during one of the nicest times of the year to shoot (fall foliage is peaking in a couple days here in CO!), the freaking National Parks are closed! I was hoping to get to Rocky Mountain NP and there was unfortunately a flood so it was closed. Then, they re-opened a large portion of it and when I went to go on a different route, the road was closed. So, I finally found a way to get to the park and now this trash! I know there's plenty of other places to go, but come on now... Anyone else have to change their (photography/vacation) plans for this shutdown? Let's hope it's over before long.


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## astroNikon (Oct 1, 2013)

ouch.  and I like your landscape photos too on your site (where'd you get a japanese zero torpedo bomber ?)


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## Derrel (Oct 1, 2013)

Yeah, this is a good example of "unforseen circumstances", and the way that such an unforseen issue can hurt or destroy a business that does not have sufficient rainy day money to stay afloat. That doggone flooding in Colorado really has impacted the state. This past weekend, I saw that the University of Colorado Buffaloes football team had been out of commission for 20 days, their longest in-season layoff/idle period in over 50 years, and in their Week Five football game at Oregon State in Corvallis this weekend, the Buffs looked sooooooooooo rusty and lame, they got their *Buffs kicked *royally. So, the cancelled game,and the impaired practice from the rains was a big deal...


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## cbarnard7 (Oct 1, 2013)

astroNikon said:


> ouch. and I like your landscape photos too on your site (where'd you get a japanese zero torpedo bomber ?)



Thanks, Astro! It was actually at an air show in Florida, when I lived in Panama City. They had a mock WWII/Pearl Harbor flight where they did a fly over with noises and sirens and all. It was really intense, actually!


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## cbarnard7 (Oct 1, 2013)

Derrel said:


> Yeah, this is a good example of "unforseen circumstances", and the way that such an unforseen issue can hurt or destroy a business that does not have sufficient rainy day money to stay afloat. That doggone flooding in Colorado really has impacted the state. This past weekend, I saw that the University of Colorado Buffaloes football team had been out of commission for 20 days, their longest in-season layoff/idle period in over 50 years, and in their Week Five football game at Oregon State in Corvallis this weekend, the Buffs looked sooooooooooo rusty and lame, they got their *Buffs kicked *royally. So, the cancelled game,and the impaired practice from the rains was a big deal...



Yeah. I'm obviously lucky (seeing as I live in an apartment in a central area, away from the mountains) to have not being able to take pictures as my biggest concern after all this rain! This also just happened:

Rock Slide Kills Five Hikers in Colorado Mountains

So, even if I get inside the park or in that area, it could be very dangerous as well.


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## Braineack (Oct 1, 2013)

do what the vets do: WWII Vets Knock Over Shutdown Barrier to Visit Memorial | Washington Free Beacon


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## cbarnard7 (Oct 1, 2013)

Braineack said:


> do what the vets do: WWII Vets Knock Over Shutdown Barrier to Visit Memorial | Washington Free Beacon



That's awesome. Unfortunately, It'll just be my lonely a** standing there by myself.


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## Braineack (Oct 1, 2013)

I'm sure the senate will reject it, but here's hope:




> (AP) House to pass bills to reopen national parks, VA
> By ANDREW TAYLOR
> Associated Press
> WASHINGTON
> ...


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## sm4him (Oct 1, 2013)

My sister was almost sent home today because of the shutdown, but finally, her boss got to make the determination and labeled her "essential" personnel. I work for the government, but fortunately it's city government--even though SOME of our funding comes from federal, it doesn't affect us in the short term.

I guess the only way it is DIRECTLY affecting me is that I'd considered going to Cades Cove this weekend, but if the shutdown continues, I'll have to ditch those plans and just go back to one of my other favorite spots--fortunately, even though I live near the foothills of the Great Smoky Mtns. National Park, there are lots and lots of other places for me to go that aren't part of the National Park System. In fact, I don't go to the GSMNP all that often, even though I'm so close, because I detest the crowds--which are especially bad at this time of year.


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## ffarl (Oct 1, 2013)

Well, that's one way of looking at it.  Another might be that there's no one _guarding_ the national parks...


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## cbarnard7 (Oct 1, 2013)

sm4him said:


> My sister was almost sent home today because of the shutdown, but finally, her boss got to make the determination and labeled her "essential" personnel. I work for the government, but fortunately it's city government--even though SOME of our funding comes from federal, it doesn't affect us in the short term.
> 
> I guess the only way it is DIRECTLY affecting me is that I'd considered going to Cades Cove this weekend, but if the shutdown continues, I'll have to ditch those plans and just go back to one of my other favorite spots--fortunately, even though I live near the foothills of the Great Smoky Mtns. National Park, there are lots and lots of other places for me to go that aren't part of the National Park System. In fact, I don't go to the GSMNP all that often, even though I'm so close, because I detest the crowds--which are especially bad at this time of year.



I know exactly what you mean- the crowds can be so crazy that you're like, "Are we at an amusement park or something?" I swear, I feel like some people have no consideration for the fact that it's a National Park, not a zoo. People trying to feed animals, littering and being loud destroys the parks for those who are looking for a little solitude. I know I'm off track here, but yes, I detest crowds as well! 

I will say, I've been to the GSMNP and I loved it (did some backcountry camping on the AT). You and I are lucky to have such mountain ranges within a short distance!


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## cbarnard7 (Oct 1, 2013)

Braineack said:


> I'm sure the senate will reject it, but here's hope:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That'd be awesome! I'm sure RMNP is kind of relieved because the park closure has deterred so many people away from the roads and areas that were affected by the flooding.


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## Derrel (Oct 1, 2013)

ffarl said:


> Well, that's one way of looking at it.  Another might be that there's no one _guarding_ the national parks...



That brings to mind Captain Wild Wing Kelso's famous speech...


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## Stevepwns (Oct 1, 2013)

For what its worth. I am a contractor for the EPA in DC.   The general consensus is it will last the week.  It isnt expected to go any longer.  I sure hope it doesn't, I don't want it to drain my savings waiting for these jackasses.


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## NancyMoranG (Oct 1, 2013)

cbarnard7 said:


> sm4him said:
> 
> 
> > My sister was almost sent home today because of the shutdown, but finally, her boss got to make the determination and labeled her "essential" personnel. I work for the government, but fortunately it's city government--even though SOME of our funding comes from federal, it doesn't affect us in the short term.
> ...


 I worked in Yellowstone for 7 months in 2011. SAME thing- it is NOT a zoo!! ' ok, (child) go stand by that bear, buffalo while I take your picture'
it was nuts!

Hubby and I currently working on Cape Cod Canal, Ma for the Corps of Engineers. We're told yesterday we have 48 hrs to leave our campsite if it shuts down. So am trying to take any photos now that I want. Then 10 am this morning, they 'appropriated' some $$ so we are here til mid October. I cannot imagine kicking out all the campers/people i our Nat'l Parks!!
Our leaves just starting here also, I really wanted to stay, yahoo!
Nancy


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## EIngerson (Oct 1, 2013)

I didn't even think of all the national parks being closed due to the shut-down. You don't realize how much it affrects until it happens.


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## Aloicious (Oct 1, 2013)

I hope something gets done soon...I've got a trip out to the Tetons and possibly Yellowstone soon...IIRC the last shutdown in '95-96 lasted like 5 days or so.


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## skieur (Oct 1, 2013)

I thought that the role of members of Congress in the US was to represent their constituents.  It would seem that in the last election, a lot of voters elected members who were willing to shut down the country, so since there seems to be no active dissent in the US, the conclusion of many of us foreigners is that the majority of US voters are in favour of shutting down their own country and/ or defaulting on their national debt.

If this were not the case, I would have expected a lot of public outrage and Americans phoning their members of Congress as well as organizing protests etc.

So does the "brinkmanship" continue or does the US self-destruct?


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## NancyMoranG (Oct 2, 2013)

I think we need a lot if changes in our gov't. Alas, they have only themselves in mind.
Nancy


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## Braineack (Oct 2, 2013)

Aloicious said:


> I hope something gets done soon...I've got a trip out to the Tetons and possibly Yellowstone soon...IIRC the last shutdown in '95-96 lasted like 5 days or so.



try 28.


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## JClishe (Oct 2, 2013)

My buddy races ultramarathons, he had a 100 mile race coming up this weekend and it was cancelled due to the shutdown (race takes place in a national park). Really sucks to train for 6+ months for one event, and then have that event cancelled.


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## runnah (Oct 2, 2013)

EIngerson said:


> I didn't even think of all the national parks being closed due to the shut-down. You don't realize how much it affrects until it happens.



If you hadn't told me I wouldn't have noticed. Maybe it's because I work in the private sector and we actually get stuff done on a regular basis.

Of course military is different story. Things don't end well when there are private armies running around.


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## sm4him (Oct 2, 2013)

runnah said:


> EIngerson said:
> 
> 
> > I didn't even think of all the national parks being closed due to the shut-down. You don't realize how much it affrects until it happens.
> ...



I'm *certain* you mean that as a joke. Because personally, *I* work in the public sector, and I *also* actually get stuff done on a regular basis.  It always sorta irritates me when people make the gross generalization that ALL government employees have cushy jobs with good pay that don't really require them to do anything. Those jobs DO exist, no doubt, but they are not descriptive of the majority of us. Those jobs ALSO exist in the private sector, by the way.  I worked for a pretty high-profile (at the time) publishing company and they would literally hire people for their name recognition and then give them "editor in chief" titles and big fancy offices which they were never in, and enormous paychecks just to have them associated with the company.

</step off soapbox>


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## EIngerson (Oct 2, 2013)

runnah said:


> EIngerson said:
> 
> 
> > I didn't even think of all the national parks being closed due to the shut-down. You don't realize how much it affrects until it happens.
> ...



Luckily we're still getting a pay check. Tons of the civilian jobs on base are furloughed.


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## mishele (Oct 2, 2013)

I'm watching you guys!!


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## Braineack (Oct 2, 2013)

I'm on a project that will save the state department about 1 million a year in shipping costs alone; you're welcome america.


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## runnah (Oct 2, 2013)

sm4him said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> > EIngerson said:
> ...



Well you need to pay attention to the words I used.* I *work in the private sector and *WE* get stuff done on a regular basis. I am talking about the private sector vs government sector as a whole, not individuals.


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## runnah (Oct 2, 2013)

mishele said:


> I'm watching you guys!!




What, are mods not government employee?


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## molested_cow (Oct 2, 2013)

What if you just.... trespass? There's no one to arrest you right right?


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## runnah (Oct 2, 2013)

molested_cow said:


> What if you just.... trespass? There's no one to arrest you right right?




I stole a tank this morning and drove it to work.


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## cbarnard7 (Oct 2, 2013)

JClishe said:


> My buddy races ultramarathons, he had a 100 mile race coming up this weekend and it was cancelled due to the shutdown (race takes place in a national park). Really sucks to train for 6+ months for one event, and then have that event cancelled.



Yeah, that would really suck. I'm not a marathon runner, but I am an athlete and I know that before a game (just like before a marathon) you time all of your activities to prepare yourself thoroughly and give yourself enough rest...so finding out the whole race is cancelled would really screw you up I would imagine...especially a 100 mile race!


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## cbarnard7 (Oct 2, 2013)

mishele said:


> I'm watching you guys!!



And I'm watching your avatar!


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## cbarnard7 (Oct 2, 2013)

skieur said:


> I thought that the role of members of Congress in the US was to represent their constituents. It would seem that in the last election, a lot of voters elected members who were willing to shut down the country, so since there seems to be no active dissent in the US, the conclusion of many of us foreigners is that the majority of US voters are in favour of shutting down their own country and/ or defaulting on their national debt.
> 
> If this were not the case, I would have expected a lot of public outrage and Americans phoning their members of Congress as well as organizing protests etc.
> 
> So does the "brinkmanship" continue or does the US self-destruct?



It's a "talk the talk or walk the walk" thing. If gas prices get too high or taxes start increasing dramatically, people will freak out (because it directly affects them daily). But, when Americans hear the term, "Government shutting down" many people don't even know what that means (until it happens, really). It's like when Detroit, Michigan declared bankruptcy...how does a city declare bankruptcy?! I mean, I know how it can...but _*why*? _There should be no such thing- it's embarrassing.As far as self-destruct- no, I don't think that will happen. This has happened in the past and it's part of our government (unfortunately). But, we'll bounce back once we figure out a solution.


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## sm4him (Oct 2, 2013)

molested_cow said:


> What if you just.... trespass? There's no one to arrest you right right?



Our local news actually mentioned this last night, since we're so close to the GSMNP. They were doing a piece on the park closures, and rangers having to go around and tell campers they would need to leave, etc.
Then they mentioned that there will be a few "essential" maintenance and security personnel that would remain, and IF you get caught trespassing in the national park while it's closed, you can get fined...up to...wait for it...$125!! 
Seriously, $125? IF I even get caught? Even *I* would take that risk, and I'm definitely NOT a risk taker. I don't even like to order a new menu item, because of the risk that I won't like it.  But the worst that can happen is I get fined $125? Good grief, who cares??


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## cbarnard7 (Oct 2, 2013)

molested_cow said:


> What if you just.... trespass? There's no one to arrest you right right?



Hah, supposedly there's a small number of rangers on patrol at the parks. I'd be the lucky guy who gave the ranger something to do that day.

Wouldn't it suck though to have a colleague that was deemed, "essential" and you go home without pay?


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## cbarnard7 (Oct 2, 2013)

sm4him said:


> molested_cow said:
> 
> 
> > What if you just.... trespass? There's no one to arrest you right right?
> ...



Maybe I'd even pay $125 to have the whole park to myself?


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## sm4him (Oct 2, 2013)

runnah said:


> sm4him said:
> 
> 
> > runnah said:
> ...



Fair enough. *I* work in the public sector and *WE*--the public transit system that I work with--get stuff done on a regular basis, real, actual stuff that is helpful to people, despite being government. Many, many other areas of government are also productive.
Some aren't. Some are corrupt. Some are ridiculous. JUST LIKE in the private sector.

But anyway...that's all I'm gonna say about THAT. And now, I'll just go take a little break because when I start taking offense at gross generalizations from strangers on the internet, it means I either haven't had enough coffee, or...no, I just haven't had enough coffee.
So, I'll just go "get some stuff done" for a while and when I come back, I'll be happy-go-lucky again. 

Ya'll carry on...


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## KenC (Oct 2, 2013)

Historic sites here in Philly are closed, so I can wander around the streets with my camera without having to dodge as many people.  I should take advantage of the opportunity before the people in D.C. come to their senses.


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## EIngerson (Oct 2, 2013)

mishele said:


> I'm watching you guys!!



I thought you got furloughed too.


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## runnah (Oct 2, 2013)

sm4him said:


> I'll just go take a little break



What a shock 

I realize that some states and some departments are better than others, but as a whole the privatization of certain departments (DOT, transportation, education) would be better. 

And it is very warm under my blanket of statements.


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## Tiller (Oct 2, 2013)

I always just figured every government department operated like the show Parks and Rec.


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## NancyMoranG (Oct 2, 2013)

Ka-Clink-, ka-clink...old wooden roller coaster reaching the top of the First climb.....
haaannnnnnggg onnnnnn. We're done until the budget bill in mid October...
i'll vote my guy/gal out if you will!
Nancy


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## ronlane (Oct 2, 2013)

It hasn't effected my vacation planning but if something isn't done soon, it could cause me to get a lot better at photography (seeing I'll have a lot of time on my hands to practice). Now to find all the photo areas that are within walking distance of my house.


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## runnah (Oct 2, 2013)

Funny how with the federal government being shut down my life hasn't changed in the least...its almost as if they aren't needed and do nothing.


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## Braineack (Oct 2, 2013)

runnah said:


> Funny how with the federal government being shut down my life hasn't changed in the least...its almost as if they aren't needed and do nothing.



what does that tell you?


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## runnah (Oct 2, 2013)

Braineack said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> > Funny how with the federal government being shut down my life hasn't changed in the least...its almost as if they aren't needed and do nothing.
> ...



That it is all an elaborate farce designed to keep the unwashed masses ignorant and in their place while the controlling powers that be continue to rule and grow rich?


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## Braineack (Oct 2, 2013)

you forgot the part about dangling carrots in order to keep them in power.


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## mishele (Oct 2, 2013)




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## Braineack (Oct 2, 2013)

mob violence doesnt get us anywhere.  Case and point: #occupyourmom'sbasements.


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## NancyMoranG (Oct 2, 2013)

Maybe we really ARE in Matrix and we are supplying power for aliens?!
Nancy


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## snowbear (Oct 2, 2013)

So far, so good - the traffic is a bit lighter. 

Personally, I think furloughs should start at the top of all three branches.  My wife and I have been through three of them with the local county government.  Unlike other places, we did not get reimbursed.


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## kay1547 (Oct 2, 2013)

So since the government is partially shut down costing Americans 1 billion/week, does this mean ill be paying less taxes this paycheck?
Of course not, but where does that money end up?


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## TheFantasticG (Oct 2, 2013)

runnah said:


> Funny how with the federal government being shut down my life hasn't changed in the least...its almost as if they aren't needed and do nothing.



I think you nailed my thoughts word-for-word.


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## cbarnard7 (Oct 3, 2013)

snowbear said:


> So far, so good - the traffic is a bit lighter.
> 
> Personally, I think furloughs should start at the top of all three branches. My wife and I have been through three of them with the local county government. Unlike other places, we did not get reimbursed.



That really sucks not to get reimbursed! Very unfair, actually.

It is funny that Congress will still get paid while they're debating about how to handle everyone else's money. I would imagine that if they weren't paid for the duration, the debating process would end rather quickly!

GOP: We'll let you have Obamacare if you don't argue with us about guns.

Democrats: Yeah, alright...let's go have lunch.


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## Braineack (Oct 3, 2013)

Why would you get reimbursed if you're not working/billing a contract?   Where's the logic behind that?

Our congressmen and senators are millionaires, they could handle not getting paid their measly salary during this.


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## cbarnard7 (Oct 3, 2013)

Braineack said:


> Why would you get reimbursed if you're not working/billing a contract? Where's the logic behind that?
> 
> Our congressmen and senators are millionaires, they could handle not getting paid their measly salary during this.



There is no logic, just as there's no logic to the fact that the Federal Government shut down, or that Detroit filed for bankruptcy- I just think if they were salaried, they should be paid to their original contract (since they've not caused the shutdown). Maybe when they started working it said, "You will get paid $xxxxx a year, unless the USA stops working." As far as the Congress, they COULD handle not being paid...but they wouldn't enjoy it as much I would imagine. It's more about principal anyway.


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## minicoop1985 (Oct 3, 2013)

runnah said:


> Braineack said:
> 
> 
> > runnah said:
> ...










I couldn't stop myself.


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## RichieT (Oct 3, 2013)

We had a 2day canoe trip on the Delaware with the boy scouts cancelled. This was with a private canoe rental business. Guess the ranger that patrols the river looking for beer and illegal fishing has to guard the parking lot now.


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## skieur (Oct 3, 2013)

runnah said:


> Funny how with the federal government being shut down my life hasn't changed in the least...its almost as if they aren't needed and do nothing.



But it will if the shutdown continues and/or the US defaults on its loans. Economic growth in the US will be cut in half down to under 2% according to experts. Less consumer spending from public employees not working and mortgage and loan defaults combined with borderline profitable companies going out of business because of less spending will cause widespread unemployment particularly in locations of government departments and services. Part-time employees will get fewer hours and less pay.

Basically the domino effect comes into play. Not every American will be affected directly, but every American will be negatively affected indirectly through the effects caused by the shutdown.


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## JClishe (Oct 3, 2013)

skieur said:


> But it will if the shutdown continues and/or the US defaults on its loans. Economic growth in the US will be cut in half down to under 2% according to experts. Less consumer spending from public employees not working and mortgage and loan defaults combined with borderline profitable companies going out of business because of less spending will cause widespread unemployment particularly in locations of government departments and services. Part-time employees will get fewer hours and less pay.
> 
> Basically the domino effect comes into play. Not every American will be affected directly, but every American will be negatively affected indirectly through the effects caused by the shutdown.



Exactly.

I grew up in southeast Michigan and in the mid-2000's the auto industry began slowing down long before the recession hit the rest of the country. There was an immediate impact on auto workers and suppliers, which at the time made up the majority of the job market in the Detroit area. Pretty soon the domino effect started. Restaurants closed down; dry cleaners, coffee shops, then entire strip malls were boarded up. I worked for an IT consulting firm and our business took a hit and we went through layoffs. It impacted everything.

I don't think that the government shutdown will last long enough to create this kind of widespread economic damage, but towns that have a high percentage of government jobs will absolutely be impacted.


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## rexbobcat (Oct 3, 2013)

As long as I can buy my Mickey D's and my chewin' tabackey I'll be fine.

'Merica.


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## cbarnard7 (Oct 4, 2013)

RichieT said:


> We had a 2day canoe trip on the Delaware with the boy scouts cancelled. This was with a private canoe rental business. Guess the ranger that patrols the river looking for beer and illegal fishing has to guard the parking lot now.



That really sucks to hear! I'm sure the troop was bummed.


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## sm4him (Oct 4, 2013)

Well, now all our TWRA wildlife refuges are closed too, because they are considered "national refuges." So, my three favorite birding spots are off limits, my favorite spot for landscape is off limits...


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## cbarnard7 (Oct 4, 2013)

sm4him said:


> Well, now all our TWRA wildlife refuges are closed too, because they are considered "national refuges." So, my three favorite birding spots are off limits, my favorite spot for landscape is off limits...



I can imagine how annoying that is. There's a refuge here near my house (they have buffalo, bald eagles, deer, prairie dogs..etc!) that's closed. I'm just glad I don't have my 70-300mm lens yet!


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## skieur (Oct 7, 2013)

rexbobcat said:


> As long as I can buy my Mickey D's and my chewin' tabackey I'll be fine.
> 
> 'Merica.



Well, if your are dependent on part time work as a student, then you are certainly at risk, dependent on your location, how long the shutdown lasts and whether the US defaults on its loans.  Moreover if you have student loans you certainly have the difficulty of trying to pay them off, if you cannot get successfully employed because of the economic problems caused by the shutdown and default.

Bottom line for US citizens: short time issue: recoverable but there will be a loss for tourist industry, retail, unemployment, investments, promotions, pay raises, etc.  Longer term including default would be downgrading the US credit rating and raising interest on the national debt, increase in loan and mortgage interest rates, higher taxes, major bankruptcies of large corporations and cities, and China dictating policy to the US because of the trillions in loans that the US has from China.


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## Tony S (Oct 7, 2013)

Do a little research on your area for places to get pictures. There are tons and tons of public land not affected by this closure with National Forests, BLM lands and Monument areas. State parks and State Wildlife areas are also another good option. Not all the scenic stuff is in a National Park. You can also check for native American reservations that have some pretty nice looking areas too that may be available to access.


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## cbarnard7 (Oct 8, 2013)

Tony S said:


> Do a little research on your area for places to get pictures. There are tons and tons of public land not affected by this closure with National Forests, BLM lands and Monument areas. State parks and State Wildlife areas are also another good option. Not all the scenic stuff is in a National Park. You can also check for native American reservations that have some pretty nice looking areas too that may be available to access.



Completely agree, Tony. I'm sure you have the same "problems" as I, living in beautiful Washington. There are plenty of places to shoot here- I've just been so busy with work lately that I'd like to go on what I know already (to shoot fall colors/lakes/mountain-views). It's just that places like RMNP are gigantic and encompass a lot of land area that I know will do the trick. But, as you say, there are plenty of other places as well.

I went to go to a reservoir yesterday with my wife (knowing there are Aspens surrounding the water) and I didn't realize that it was in Pike NATIONAL forest. The freaking road was closed halfway through the forest and it made me mad because I thought that all roads going through a national park/forest were to stay open? 

I also agree with you about the state parks and BLM areas- a lot of them are still closed due to the flooding, but if I look hard enough I'm sure I'll get something good before winter comes!


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## CoBilly (Oct 9, 2013)

cbarnard7 said:


> Braineack said:
> 
> 
> > do what the vets do: WWII Vets Knock Over Shutdown Barrier to Visit Memorial | Washington Free Beacon
> ...



Ill storm the gate with you.


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