# Adobe are SCUM



## kap55 (Oct 24, 2017)

I've been using Lightroom via monthly subscription for a few years but have finally decided that it is time to move on.  When I went to the Adobe site to cancel I was faced with a fairly significant cancellation fee.  Turns out that the anniversary of my signing on with Adobe was Sep 31 and that they want 50% of the subscription fee until next Sep 31.  The will automatically bill by credit card as soon as I cancel - I have no choice or say in the matter.  The only time you can cancel penalty free is on the anniversary of your original signing.

I can understand being hit with a penalty if you cancel within the first year, but after that you should be able to quit any time without penalty.  I know there must be fine print that makes what Adobe is doing legal - but they are still scum.


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## Designer (Oct 24, 2017)

And they're not the only ones.


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## Tomasko (Oct 24, 2017)

It's actually a yearly subscription, only paid monthly. I agree they should be MUCH more open about it.


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## smoke665 (Oct 24, 2017)

Guess you could always call your credit card company tell them you think your card has been compromised and ask them to issue a new one. Then let Adobe bill a closed card.


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## kap55 (Oct 24, 2017)

smoke665 said:


> Guess you could always call your credit card company tell them you think your card has been compromised and ask them to issue a new one. Then let Adobe bill a closed card.



I did not close the account just because I wanted to consider my options - one of which is doing exactly that.


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## Derrel (Oct 24, 2017)

Waiting for the "_usual suspects_" here to come to the defense of Adobe...seems like no matter what kind of sh** Adobe pulls, there's a small group here who defends even the most-despicable actions that Adobe does...


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## smoke665 (Oct 25, 2017)

@Derrel not just Adobe, it's anyone that you give authority to debit your  account,. I absolutely refuse to grant anyone the right to debit my checking account, and maintain a separate credit card for those that force automatic billing on me. It's easier to dispute a credit card charge that you haven't paid then try to get your money back that's been drawn out of you bank account.


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## SquarePeg (Oct 25, 2017)

Tomasko said:


> It's actually a yearly subscription, only paid monthly. I agree they should be MUCH more open about it.



That’s good to know.  Everyone always refers to it as the monthly plan...  I’ve managed to avoid it so far.


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## john.margetts (Oct 25, 2017)

Tomasko said:


> It's actually a yearly subscription, only paid monthly. I agree they should be MUCH more open about it.


But it is not a secret. I don't see why Adobe are at fault for people not reading before they buy. 

If I was to rent anything, I would specifically ask what the exit terms are. It is not the rental company's responsibility to hammer the basics home when I am too lazy.


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## Peeb (Oct 25, 2017)

I didn't even know that I HAD an anniversary date with Adobe.  I've never sent chocolates, flowers- even a card!  No wonder they're a bit cool with me, I suppose.  

You'll get no defense of Adobe here- have never like the rental model.


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## pixmedic (Oct 25, 2017)

how is this an "adobe" thing?
most cell phone plans do this, cable contracts, internet, satellite, gym memberships....
not a new concept by any means.

i mean, come on guys....you sign a *contract,* but have no idea of what it actually entails?
this is not an "adobe" issue, its a user error.
i dont care for contracts much either, but I make sure I know what im getting into beforehand, and the ramifications if i decide to leave. 

would you hold a photography client liable to pay a bill they signed a contract for, or would you let them out of the remaining 50% because they decided they wanted to get pictures reshot somewhere else even after you shot and produced great pictures?


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## Peeb (Oct 25, 2017)

pixmedic said:


> how is this an "adobe" thing?
> most cell phone plans do this, cable contracts, internet, satellite, gym memberships....
> not a new concept by any means.
> 
> ...


It’s software, not a gym membership. If I don’t want/need the latest and greatest version, no other company FORCES me to make that choice.  Being forced to rent software is offensive to me (and others). I happily use a 10-year old word processor. Haven’t had to spend a penny on that software in that time.  My needs are perfectly met.  I would have spent $1,200 at 10/mo under a rental. 

I do use and pay Adobe but I don’t have to like it!


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## john.margetts (Oct 25, 2017)

Peeb said:


> It’s software, not a gym membership. If I don’t want/need the latest and greatest version, no other company FORCES me to make that choice.  Being forced to rent software is offensive to me (and others). I happily use a 10-year old word processor. Haven’t had to spend a penny on that software in that time.  My needs are perfectly met.  I would have spent $1,200 at 10/mo under a rental.
> 
> I do use and pay Adobe but I don’t have to like it!


Adobe do not "FORCE" you to pay for Photoshop. I do not pay for it and am unlikely to ever do so - partly because I do not want it and partly I do not like the idea of renting software. I have Lightroom which I paid a one-off fee for and I have Photoshop Elements which, again, I paid a one-off fee for. I know what I have paid for and would know the same if I was daft enough to rent software.


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## pixmedic (Oct 25, 2017)

Peeb said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> > how is this an "adobe" thing?
> ...



i hear ya man...like i said before, i dont like being contractually obligated either....but just like a gym membership, or cable, or cell phone, there are alternatives that dont require a contract. if you *choose* to use adobe CC, (which I do) then you are choosing to abide by the terms of their contract. 
Im as bad as anyone for not reading the fine print on contracts. Comcast probably has the rights to my first born child and i dont even know it...yet...
but I cant blame comcast, or t-mobile, or adobe for practices that I signed up for but dont know about because I didnt bother actually reading the terms of service that i quickly scrolled through to get to the accept button.


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## smoke665 (Oct 25, 2017)

For now I really don't mind the monthly "rental" for Bridge, LR and PS. Think about it, CS5 I think sold for around $700, and for LR add another $149. that's $849 total without Bridge. at roughly $120/yr, I'd have to be a subscriber for a minimum of just over 7 years to break even. And, "if" during that time I upgraded either, then much longer. I look at it as a pay me now, or pay me later approach.

What scares the hell out of me is their push to get me to basically put my images and editing on their server.


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## Destin (Oct 25, 2017)

john.margetts said:


> Peeb said:
> 
> 
> > It’s software, not a gym membership. If I don’t want/need the latest and greatest version, no other company FORCES me to make that choice.  Being forced to rent software is offensive to me (and others). I happily use a 10-year old word processor. Haven’t had to spend a penny on that software in that time.  My needs are perfectly met.  I would have spent $1,200 at 10/mo under a rental.
> ...



Actually they just started “forcing” people to pay for it monthly. 

They’re discontinuing future camera updates for all legacy editions of Lightroom. So any future cameras that get released won’t be compatible with non-subscription versions of adobe software.


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## john.margetts (Oct 25, 2017)

That is not forcing you to do anything. There are plenty of alternatives out there, and Adobe's free DNG converter if you really must stick with older, non-rental versions of software.


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## ronlane (Oct 25, 2017)

smoke665 said:


> What scares the hell out of me is their push to get me to basically put my images and editing on their server.



They may be wanting to do this but from my understanding the LR CC file management isn't there yet. Figure if they try to force us to the cloud without that, they will loose a bunch of subscribers.


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## smoke665 (Oct 25, 2017)

ronlane said:


> They may be wanting to do this but from my understanding the LR CC file management isn't there yet. Figure if they try to force us to the cloud without that, they will loose a bunch of subscribers.



That and not everyone has truly high speed internet.


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## benhasajeep (Oct 25, 2017)

At first I was absolutely against the online model.  I have had Photoshop since 6.0.  Starting with 7.0 I upgraded every other eddition.  CS4 was my latest version.  I also started with LR, then 2, then 4, and finally 5.

The upgrade for PS was $349 if I remember right.  And LR was around $100 to 125 for new addition.  So if you were an upgrader like me skipping a version.  That would be 3-4 years between upgrades.  So, I did the math and well it works out to about the same amount of money upgrading every other version to paying the $10 a month (I pay yearly).  If you include the cost of lightroom then your are actually saving money with the $120 a year plan!

Now if you only use Lightroom and not photoshop.  $10 a month is not a good deal!


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## SCraig (Oct 25, 2017)

smoke665 said:


> For now I really don't mind the monthly "rental" for Bridge, LR and PS. Think about it, CS5 I think sold for around $700, and for LR add another $149. that's $849 total without Bridge. at roughly $120/yr, I'd have to be a subscriber for a minimum of just over 7 years to break even. And, "if" during that time I upgraded either, then much longer. I look at it as a pay me now, or pay me later approach.
> 
> What scares the hell out of me is their push to get me to basically put my images and editing on their server.


Right before Adobe started this "Software As A Service" garbage they allowed their resellers to unload their existing stock of Photoshop.  I bought a copy of Photoshop CS6 for $250 and Lightroom for $80, just because.  I seldom used either and when I got a new computer last spring I never installed them on it.

I agree, I will not rent software.  Their loss of my business isn't going to hurt them but I don't like their software so it isn't going to hurt me either.  And, I wouldn't put any of my files, photos or otherwise, on the so-called "Cloud" if they paid me.


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## Overread (Oct 25, 2017)

The cloud is optional - chances are they'll keep pushing it as a feature, but they won't disable local storage of photos ever; that would be total madness. The Classic Lightroom mess is mostly because they tried to be smart and call the local version of Lightroom classic - which is a term reserved typically for software that's old and no longer updated.

As for exit clauses a full 50% sounds rather steep a charge; but yes as said earlier many hire contracts or rentals have an exit charge if you terminate within the contract period. Essentially when you sign up you agree to a years payments in advance so when you exit you are liable for the amount still owed. It's nasty to find it out and can be a shock if you're not expecting it; but its there - most of your billed contacts at home will have them - insurance is littered with them.


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## smoke665 (Oct 25, 2017)

SCraig said:


> I will not rent software.



Before we sold out in 2007 I was already seeing the rental model in transportation software. The cost of integrated dispatch and accounting packages were fast growing out reach of everyone but the largest of companies. The rental option was a popular way to have what you couldn't afford otherwise.


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## Overread (Oct 25, 2017)

smoke665 said:


> SCraig said:
> 
> 
> > I will not rent software.
> ...



Also a lot of companies would use old software because it worked and didn't require retraining on top of new software costs. Even if the old wasn't working great many would limp on. Plus legacy software puts a bigger strain on developer support costs.

The rental model does make sense - I agree that I dislike it and I don't want to head to full cloud computing; but I can see it as a sane approach for many developers releasing software.


Heck before the change I was using elements and wasn't looking to upgrade - the cost was big enough that I'd rather buy other things with that much money saved.


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## astroNikon (Oct 25, 2017)

You guys should read some of your software agreements.  You don't have any rights, they can revoke your usage of software at any time.  I haven't read the adobe online stuff but it probably contains that same stuff.

Many companies prefer the "subscription" model as it generates a consistent monthly income.  Which is much more sustainable for a company to budget and provide feedback to the investors.  I think Adobe was one of the first "PC companies" to start moving to that model years back, mimicking the large software companies who may have monthly or annual maintenance fees (SAP, etc).

I don't like contracts myself.  So I try to avoid them at all costs unless I read the agreement in detail.  When I bought my house, they had to send me a copy of the agreement a few days before hand as I told them I was going to read every line before signing.  And they didn't want a delay like that going through the signing process.  I used to read all the contracts for an auto company too for the mgt reviews.


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## Derrel (Oct 25, 2017)

pixmedic said:


> how is this an "adobe" thing?
> most cell phone plans do this, cable contracts, internet, satellite, gym memberships....
> not a new concept by any means.
> 
> ...



Just HAD to use a "Disagree" on your comment...the 48th time I have used it, in multiple years.


16,650 LIKES given by me...48 Disagrees given by me...

I stopped by the ADOBE site about 3 minutes ago...their terms of service are deceptive; if it were a fricking RADIO or TV commercial, they'd have government regulations forcing them to disclose that the "monthly plan" includes a HEFTY discontinuance charge.

I lost all respect for Adobe as a company when they tried to force a $50 a MONTH charge onto their millions and millions of Photoshop users; the hue and cry was soooooooooo extreme, from millions of users, that they cut their ransom demand from $50 a month for Photoshop...down to $9.95 a month for Lightroom and Photoshop.

 From my POV, the bottom line? Try to rip off your entire customer base, then get shot down, and cut the cost FIVE fold and throw in another software product? Unconscionable. Highway robbery attempt.

SORRY...but , "*Prepare to* *bend over and lube up!!"* is the way Adobe treated all of its paying customers. Many of us will never forgive that sort of rude treatment. Ever.


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## AlanKlein (Oct 25, 2017)

Derrel +1.

It all started with Windows locking you in, Apple does it.  I updated to Windows 10, well, because I had too.  Adobe's just continuing with the tradition of forever annuities for themselves without having to do too much.  If you're in business, you write it off as part of doing business.  But for average people, it stinks when you feel you're getting ripped off with huge on-going costs for a mature product that offers little in extras.  It's like paying monthly alimony.


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## TreeofLifeStairs (Oct 26, 2017)

I purchased cs5 and lr5 right before they went to their subscription model. Everything has worked great for me for years now but I went and had to buy a new camera and screw everything up. As has been mentioned already, they no longer support those older versions so now when I shoot raw I need to use their dng converter. :/ This is the first I’ve been effected by the whole thing. I knew the day would come but I was hoping it would have been a few more years still. 

Now to the op’s point; I understand having a contract for the first year so that the company can be ensured a certain amount of profitability from a customer but generally after that the customer is charged month to month since the contract is fulfilled. I think most contracts are this way...cell phones, gym memberships, alarm companies and so on. I don’t think it’s a stretch for the op to have been led to believe that his/her membership with adobe would be any different. Yes, you are right, that the fine print should be read, but I completely understand his/her position on the matter. I’m also with Derrel in thinking that Adobe’s reason for this system is purely motivated by greed. 

I’m wondering, now that you’ve canceled and have been charged the 50% of the remaining time. Do you get to use the software for 1/2 the time between now and your anniversary date?


Sent from my iPhone using ThePhotoForum.com mobile app


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## Tomasko (Oct 26, 2017)

AlanKlein said:


> Derrel +1.
> 
> It all started with Windows locking you in, Apple does it.  I updated to Windows 10, well, because I had too.  Adobe's just continuing with the tradition of forever annuities for themselves without having to do too much.  If you're in business, you write it off as part of doing business.  But for average people, it stinks when you feel you're getting ripped off with huge on-going costs for a mature product that offers little in extras.  It's like paying monthly alimony.


Windows and Photoshop/Lightroom have VERY different business models. One is one-time payment while the other asks money from you constantly every single month.
Also, Microsoft did it because it's not realistic to provide updates and fixes for xx old software. It's very unrealistic and it's actually good MS prefers to have a single version and update that instead of having multiple versions.


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## pixmedic (Oct 26, 2017)

Derrel said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> > how is this an "adobe" thing?
> ...


So how does that make my statement wrong? If you don't like Adobe's practices, don't use them. You disagree with people needing to read contracts before they sign them? You disagree with people choosing not to use a service they don't agree with? You disagree with adobe not being the only company in the world to do this?
Well, if that's how you feel, so be it.
But the fact remains that for many many peopke, adobe cc is the best deal around. 


Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk


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## smoke665 (Oct 26, 2017)

@Derrel my business law professor in college was a practicing attorney who taught classes on the side because he loved the law, he later became my friend and company attorney. His words still remain, if it isn't in writing it doesn't exist, so make damned sure you cover everything you need to in your contracts. He also said edit your contracts in 12 point, and print them in 6 point. While not making an effort to draw attention to penalty clauses might be distasteful to some, it certainly isn't illegal. I mean we are talking about adults who should be wearing their big boy/girl pants when considering any contract for service, be it photography, utility, cable, etc. Ignorance of the terms is not a valid excuse in a court room, unless the wording is so ambiguous that the meaning would be unclear to most people. 

Unlike other contracts, service contracts are generally written such that you have to accept the terms or go elsewhere. If enough people refused to sign, the company would have no choice but to modify the terms. In Adobe's case that doesn't appear to be a problem.


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## Overread (Oct 26, 2017)

Actually I believe the UK/EU did pass legislation against the practice of tiny/fine print in contracts. Whilst the information is still there its a clear attempt to be deceptive by printing information of a size which is difficult to read and which is only done to discourage reading.

Also many contracts are not actually legal. Software companies are notorious for having contracts which would not stand up in court; they got away with it because basically no one on either side ever really came to the table to challenge/enforce some aspects. Though its better now but it is a sign that computer law is lagging behind practice. 

The other aspect is cost; for most people challenging bit company contracts isn't worth it in the short nor long run financially speaking. 


That said an early contract termination clause (as cited in the original post of this thread) is pretty standard practice for many companies both small and large. One or two months rent; half the policy etc... are all pretty standard.


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## TheLibrarian (Oct 26, 2017)

I'd considered getting LR/PS but now that I know the details I never will. Rest assured your vengence is bearing fruit the more you let people know about what they're truly up to. It's bad enough they want you to pay yearly the price it used to be to just own it. I second the advice to contact your CC and report the fruadulent charges before canceling the card altogether if they won't cooperate.


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## DanOstergren (Oct 26, 2017)

Derrel said:


> "*Prepare to* *bend over and lube up!!"*


lmao. They didn't even try using spit, let alone lube!

This may have well been their marketing material:


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## Derrel (Oct 26, 2017)

pixmedic said:
			
		

> But the fact remains that for many many peopke, adobe cc is the best deal around.



Yeah...the people that cannot do math...I wasted $240 with NO UPDATES to the software that had any value to me. So I went back to a purchased and owned copy of Lightroom, and earlier, purchased-and-owned versions of Photoshop.

BUYING a software application that does not rely on an internet connection and constant snooping on the customer is an easier way, and saves money in a very short amount of time.

Look...I was with Adobe Photoshop since version 2.1. Adobe Cretin Cloud promises "updates", but what it really does, for many people, is to suck money off of their bank card, every month, for long time frames.

The "best deal" is to BUY software, and to OWN it.


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## cgw (Oct 27, 2017)

Relief in sight for all those sore bottoms?

https://petapixel.com/2017/10/25/dxo-buys-nik-collection-google-will-resume-development/


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## astroNikon (Oct 27, 2017)

Derrel said:


> pixmedic said:
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> 
> ...


I agree.  I don't even like car leases so when the CC came out I kept buying the LR.  I went from LR 4.x to 6.x to support my D750.  It's good to know that the LR 6.x will support the D850 as any cameras in my near future would be either a D850, X-T2 / X-T20 or possibly a D7200/d7100.


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## Peeb (Oct 27, 2017)

BTW, I have some structural concerns with the statement 'Adobe are scum'.  Shouldn't it be 'Adobe IS scum', grammatically?


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## pixmedic (Oct 27, 2017)

Derrel said:


> pixmedic said:
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so....dont subscribe to adobe CC. problem solved, crisis averted,  the town is saved. 
whats the best alternative to PS AND LR? 
how much software do you have to purchase to *equal *( not just "come close") to PS and LR combined? can such a thing even be done?
sure, you can buy software that is *almost *as powerful as PS ...but most often I see software like capture one and affinity compared to Lightrooms editing capabilities, not photoshops.  so what can I purchase that gives me equal editing power to PS as well as equal cataloging power of LR? 
not to mention the endless number of custom presets that can be downloaded, and LR's non-destructive editing features. 
im down for looking at other options if adobe CC isnt the best anymore, but if the only complaint is the subscription service...ill just keep paying my measly two lattes a month to have the best of the best (of the best). 
totally worth it for us to have the two most powerful and efficient editing programs on the planet.


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## BananaRepublic (Oct 27, 2017)

Three years ago I signed up to adobe cc. Three months in I had a technical issue which meant the thing wasn't working for me so I got on to adobe support. As you all know abobe provide absolutely awful support for there paying plebeians, customers, and they escalated me round the house for a further three months, FYI I am hobbyist.

Eventually I got so fed up with the situation that I turned to adobes facebook profile and voiced my problems and opinion of customer service, posted 5 times a day for 4 days straight. On the fifth day I got a phone call from California, I live in Ireland, and they fixed my issue as I spoke to them on the phone but being that I was so aggravated I demanded a full refund and I got it. Now the women on the phone didn't care a damn she just wanted the face book posts to stop, probably some underling was to put me on a blacklist but never did. Upshot of that was I had full accesses to the software for 2 years after free of charge, didn't use the cloud bit though.

My point is unless customers air there grievances publicly and or switch to alternate products those Liquor store hold up men have nothing to worry about.  A tip regarding contracts set a remminder on your phone or PC to alert you 11 months after signing up to give you time to exit free of charge.  I also no longer use adobe.


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## Frank F. (Oct 27, 2017)

kap55 said:


> I've been using Lightroom via monthly subscription for a few years but have finally decided that it is time to move on.  When I went to the Adobe site to cancel I was faced with a fairly significant cancellation fee.  Turns out that the anniversary of my signing on with Adobe was Sep 31 and that they want 50% of the subscription fee until next Sep 31.  The will automatically bill by credit card as soon as I cancel - I have no choice or say in the matter.  The only time you can cancel penalty free is on the anniversary of your original signing.
> 
> I can understand being hit with a penalty if you cancel within the first year, but after that you should be able to quit any time without penalty.  I know there must be fine print that makes what Adobe is doing legal - but they are still scum.




pacta sunt servanda

I know a lot of people who are angry at Adobe. If you do not like the cake do not eat it and if you sign a contreact read it first.

I had to pay another full year in my swimming club although the swimming club is next to useless to me, because they accepted to many members and the bath is always so crowded (and dirty) that I can not and do not want to swim a relaxed round or two per week anymore. A FULL YEAR!!!


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## BananaRepublic (Oct 27, 2017)

pixmedic said:


> the two most powerful and efficient editing programs on the planet



No they aren't.


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## BananaRepublic (Oct 27, 2017)

john.margetts said:


> But it is not a secret. I don't see why Adobe are at fault for people not reading before they buy.



Its not a secret but its surrounded by a wall of marketing and buzz words.


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## pixmedic (Oct 27, 2017)

BananaRepublic said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> > the two most powerful and efficient editing programs on the planet
> ...


Why not address the rest of my post then and answer my question?

Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk


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## BananaRepublic (Oct 27, 2017)

pixmedic said:


> BananaRepublic said:
> 
> 
> > pixmedic said:
> ...



PS & LR are powerful but not efficient

 I use Affinity and what I have determined is: You cant compare the two separate programs that is Lr & PS to it. Affinity is effectively a clone of Ps with the usability of Lr.  PS is very good but it has being going for a long time in one form or another and thus can be cumbersome and also scary to use for the uninitiated, because Adobe just layer on the updates year after year without getting rid of the dross from decades ago. Affinity on the other hand was developed only in the last few years, they have taken 95% of whats good about PS and made it far more user friendly and for only a fraction of the price.

Now where adobe wins with consumers is with LR and thats why PS is being sold as a mere bonus in the CC structure. At the moment I am looking for a alternate to LR which Affinity isn't at all and the likes of capture 1 pro is to expensive. If there were a CC deal for LR at say $6 as a standalone I would consider that but it wont happen cause Adobe are shooting fish in a barrel.


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## pixmedic (Oct 27, 2017)

BananaRepublic said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
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> > BananaRepublic said:
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We would probably opt for a cheaper LR only option as well

Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk


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## john.margetts (Oct 27, 2017)

Peeb said:


> BTW, I have some structural concerns with the statement 'Adobe are scum'.  Shouldn't it be 'Adobe IS scum', grammatically?


Adobe is a company, not an individual, so is plural.


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## Bobby Ironsights (Oct 27, 2017)

Just found this on the adobe website.

_The only way to turn off auto renewal before your 12-month renewal date is to cancel your subscription_


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## Tomasko (Oct 27, 2017)

john.margetts said:


> Peeb said:
> 
> 
> > BTW, I have some structural concerns with the statement 'Adobe are scum'.  Shouldn't it be 'Adobe IS scum', grammatically?
> ...


Yep, but it depends if you're referring to a company (a single business entity) or if you mean the company as a group of employees etc. So probably both would be correct, just slightly different in meaning.


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## john.margetts (Oct 27, 2017)

Tomasko said:


> john.margetts said:
> 
> 
> > Peeb said:
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Company as a group of shareholders, actually.


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## Dave442 (Oct 27, 2017)

Microsoft and Adobe are both doing well as companies this year in large part due to their Subscription plans. This is usually a good thing, or we will end up with what happened to Aperture and Nik. 

I have been using MS Office 360 for a few years now and it usually works very well in keeping me with the latest software without thinking about it - although I could be using a 10 year old version of Office and not even notice the difference (except my old version never had the nag screen that the program cannot verify my subscription).  

A couple of my design programs have also gone to the subscription model. Right now that puts me at four programs in the subscription model, not including LR as I am still using LR6 for at least a few more months. 

Looking back, I paid over $300 for LR3, then did two upgrades - LR5 and LR6 - so in seven years paid around $500 for just LR. So the subscription price is not that bad of deal, especially adding in Photoshop. But there is a definite point at just how many subscriptions one can have and still be economically viable. 

With standalone programs I have many older versions that still work just fine for when I need them and would never be able to justify keeping a subscription going.  However, with the returns that Microsoft and Adobe are showing it may be the beginning of the end for standalone programs.


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## AlanKlein (Oct 28, 2017)

Dave442 said:


> Microsoft and Adobe are both doing well as companies this year in large part due to their Subscription plans. This is usually a good thing, or we will end up with what happened to Aperture and Nik.
> ...
> 
> With standalone programs I have many older versions that still work just fine for when I need them and would never be able to justify keeping a subscription going.  However, with the returns that Microsoft and Adobe are showing it may be the beginning of the end for standalone programs.



Subscriptions work for Microsoft and Adobe because they have a proven product that people are already using.  Plus, due to users' archives and editing, they're locked into LR.  So they're being forced to subscribe, in many cases.  However, asking people to subscribe to a new, unproven products will be much more difficult.  Also, competitors are always looking to sell product.  So there will be developers who will stick with the sales rather than the leasing of products to satisfy that group of buyers.


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## AlanKlein (Oct 28, 2017)

Dave442 said:


> Microsoft and Adobe are both doing well as companies this year in large part due to their Subscription plans. This is usually a good thing, or we will end up with what happened to Aperture and Nik.
> 
> ...



Every software has a product life.  LR has pretty much reached the end.  Sure, they're adding cute little  features.  But these really don't help most people or make much of a difference to pay for an expensive update.  The product is at it's maturity.  It doesn't really pay to spend more for updates for most people, certainly doesn't pay for a subscription that goes on for the rest of your life.  This is Adobe's method of extending the life of their product that few will buy new or for an update at little cost to them.


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## OldManJim (Oct 30, 2017)

This is exactly why I bought Corel.


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## Bubba2 (Nov 1, 2017)

Microsoft Office has also moved to an annual subscription based model.   I use Linux and don't have to pay to use GIMP or Libre Office.


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