# Canon XSI and sharp images.



## JasonLambert (Apr 21, 2010)

Anyone have a good example of what my camera can do? I have a Canon XSI with the kit lens and a couple other lenses but I would like to know what the kit setup can do in say a portrait setting. I have been reading about the settings and getting good focus but can't seem to get what I would like out of it. 

I am a total noob but am having a blast learning. This site has been a lot of help. I have spent days reading as many posts as I can without my wife thinking I am looking at porn. Thanks to everyone who gives input here!


----------



## mwcfarms (Apr 21, 2010)

What kind of example are you looking for. The best way to figure out what it can do is shoot, shoot and shoot again. Keep a notebook with your settings and environment ie, sunny, indoors etc and then what you keep your camera set at; ISO apeture etc. I just got my Nikon 2 weeks ago and I try to shoot for at least 45 min a day. Keep at it, you will get it.


----------



## JasonLambert (Apr 21, 2010)

mwcfarms said:


> Keep at it, you will get it.



LOL... I hope! Thanks for the quick reply!


----------



## Overread (Apr 21, 2010)

How good can it be -- well about this good or better:
Juza Nature Photography
350D is two rebel camera models below the one you currently have- the key is good light, good glass and a good photographer.

If you want more specific advice post up examples detailing as much info as you can - technical, compositional and such information and then we can see if we can find out what mistakes you are possibly making as well as ideas for how to improve your overall  work


----------



## ghpham (Apr 21, 2010)

One place you can check is dpreview.com.  Click on the "camera database" link on the left and look for Canon, and then your camera model.  It should have a gallery showing pictures that were taken with your camera.


----------



## JasonLambert (Apr 21, 2010)

Overread said:


> How good can it be -- well about this good or better:
> Juza Nature Photography



Amazing! Thanks for letting me see how far this body can take me!

Dhpham, Thank you, I will check that site out asap. Off to find something to photograph!


----------



## KmH (Apr 21, 2010)

JasonLambert said:


> Overread said:
> 
> 
> > How good can it be -- well about this good or better:
> ...


It's not a question of how far the camera can take you, but how far you can take the camera.


----------



## JasonLambert (Apr 21, 2010)

Ok, so I got out today and went for a walk in the park. Here are some examples of my focus problems. 






So here is the first one... (f/8, 1/100sec, ISO-100, 80mm) All looks ok until I zoom in a bit on the image and 






And you see that it isn't in focus as much as I would like.






I lost the info on this one... Doh!






But again you can see my result.






LOL... I was sitting in Burger Kings parking lot eating my Whopper and fries when I looked over to see this guy wanting a free lunch (f/9, 1/100sec, ISO-250, 80mm)






Ok... I gave him one fry... But he still came out blurry. 






This time the settings were f/9 1/320sec ISO-200 60mm and the image looks fine here... (The model isn't so bad either, if I do say so myself.)






and not so bad here. So am I safe to say that the extra 250th of a second faster on the shutter is all I need to get them a little more clear?

Thanks again!


----------



## fokker (Apr 21, 2010)

It is probably a combination of the kit lens, which tends to be soft at the best of times, and how you are shooting. The first two are pretty close to 'rule of thumb limit' which is 1/focal length (so 1/80 second for the first one). Trouble is you have to add in a 1.6 factor for your camera so it becomes more like 1/115 second that you need to prevent camera shake. Keep in mind this is only a guidleine though, and the biggest influence is your technique. Don't rush the shots and treat the camera like a target rifle, your sharpness will improve noticeably.


----------



## Overread (Apr 22, 2010)

Tuck your elbows in, use the viewfinder not the LCD and read up on good posture when shooting. These things will greatly help you when handholding a shot and to minimise the effects of handshake. Of course we are all different as well and you might find that for a sharp shot handheld you do need to shoot a littlefaster than some others - the key is to understand and test your limits. 

Other factors to consider include:
Range of the shot - as you increase the distance from yourself to the subject area the amount of shake you have will increase its effect upon your end image. Shooting at a far off mountain and your hands shaking will cause far more blur than if you are shooting closer at say a persons face.

Motion of the subject itself - often the second biggest pitfall to blured shots - handshake you can deal with but subject motion, even quite slow motions, can require far faster shutter speeds. 1/100sec on the crow is really far too slow even for minor bird motions - you need to be pushing up to the 1/320, 1/400 even up to 1/500sec idealy for such work as a starting point - and of course the faster the better.

ISO - raising your ISO for more shutter speed in a given situation will result in more noise in your end shot and that will sap the overall sharpness and quality of the result. Overall though noise you can deal with in editing whilst blurred motion you cannot fix. How high you take your ISO is something that you and your camera will determin - generally for my 400D I have ISO 400 as my ideal max, whilst ISO 800 I will reach to but not expect a good shot and ISO 1600 I don't use because the result is far too poor in quality for my liking. Of course ISO 100 is what we all want to use if we can get away with it - though I tend to find for wildlife that I start at ISO 200 as a base for a little more speedwith marginal loss of quality.


----------



## KmH (Apr 22, 2010)

The keys to getting "Tack Sharp" images:


Use a good sturdy tripod
Use a remote shutter release or self timer
If your camera allows - lock the mirror up
When using a tripod - turn off image stabilization.
Use your lenses sharpest aperture (at least a couple of stops off the extremes)
Good glass makes a big difference
Use the lowest ISO possible
Zoom into the image on the LCD to make sure it's sharp
Sharpen the image in image editing software


----------



## Overread (Apr 22, 2010)

Tripods of course remove handshake as a problem and with a good ballhead on top can be used for tracking moving subjects like cars or wildlife. However remotes, mirror lockup and using the LCD to focus with (if you have live view)  are things that you just won't use for something like an animal.
Ideal settings for a flower or landscape, but not for anything that might move.


----------



## mwcfarms (Apr 22, 2010)

Its a good start Jason keep posting pics.


----------



## JasonLambert (Apr 22, 2010)

Overread said:


> ISO - raising your ISO for more shutter speed in a given situation will result in more noise in your end shot and that will sap the overall sharpness and quality of the result. Overall though noise you can deal with in editing whilst blurred motion you cannot fix. How high you take your ISO is something that you and your camera will determin - generally for my 400D I have ISO 400 as my ideal max, whilst ISO 800 I will reach to but not expect a good shot and ISO 1600 I don't use because the result is far too poor in quality for my liking. Of course ISO 100 is what we all want to use if we can get away with it - though I tend to find for wildlife that I start at ISO 200 as a base for a little more speedwith marginal loss of quality.



Informative, Thank you... Ya learn something every day!



> If your camera allows - lock the mirror up



Didn't think of that... Thanks!



> Its a good start Jason keep posting pics.



Oh trust me.... I will! Thanks!


----------



## bennielou (Apr 22, 2010)

Unfortunately, it comes down to what your sensor can handle.  Not the cam or the lens.


----------



## bahandi (Apr 22, 2010)

hmm... I hope this doensn't turn into another crop sensor vs full frame thread.


----------



## bennielou (Apr 22, 2010)

bahandi said:


> hmm... I hope this doensn't turn into another crop sensor vs full frame thread.


 

I've been processing both for many years now, and there is definately a difference. You don't have to love it, but it is the truth.

Consider the noise on the sensor of an XTI, and then again on a 5D2 or a Mark.  It's totally different and you can't deny that.  And I'm not going into crop factors.  I'm talking about the sensors.

Flat out, an XTI with the same lens and and restrictions of a 5d2 or a Mark, is not going to produce the same level of photos.

I've had people shoot with me, not assistants, but just people learning, and I go through all the shots.  They are VASTLY different.


----------



## Overread (Apr 22, 2010)

bennielou said:


> Unfortunately, it comes down to what your sensor can handle.  Not the cam or the lens.



Ultimatly yes the sensor is a key part of the equation (But unless you are using the RED camera system where there are interchangable sensors the camera is pretty much the definition of the sensor being used - so the cam does matter).
However up till that limit there is a lot one can do with firstly good shooting methodolgy and second with good glass. The improvements will be quite dramatic with both and added together even a rebel camera body can achive some very good levels of quality and professional grade images. Sure matched next to a 7D, 5DM2 or a 1DMIV the results won't be "as good" but they will certainly be saleable images if one works within the boundaries of the quality delivered. *



bahandi said:


> hmm... I hope this doensn't turn into another crop sensor vs full frame thread.



If we all keep our heads it won't'  



*ps for the wedding photographer nutters amung us no that does not mean I would condone someone to start shooting weddings pro grade with a rebel camera body, its high ISO and other features just don't match up to the mid or top range camera bodies on the market, but its not the same as saying that a rebel camera body cannot deliver good results

pps pro grade simply means getting paid for your work


----------



## bennielou (Apr 22, 2010)

Overread said:


> bennielou said:
> 
> 
> > Unfortunately, it comes down to what your sensor can handle. Not the cam or the lens.
> ...


 
The XTI is a consumer camera.  This from Canon.  The D series are prosumers.  That is the 40, 50 cams.  The single Ds are the pro cams.  IE, the 5 and Marks.  There is a reason for that.  The sensors are WAY different.
If they weren't, if it was all just as good as the next, then every pro in the world would be shooting with a Rebel.  Just to save money, right?


----------



## Overread (Apr 22, 2010)

Exactly and that is why I say that I would not advise a person to shoot pro with a rebel, but that does not mean one cannot produce salable results with one. The additional features of even the prosumer DSLRs make them far more suitable for professional and consistant grade work. 

However I don't let canons marketing team and terminology define what is and is not possible in the real world - a rebel camera body in teh right hands (and I'd also say with the right lens) can produce results that a person can sell without fear of appearing substandard. 

Again its not about saying everyone with a rebel can and is a pro nor is it saying every shot is salable, but it is recognising that results from these cameras is not as horrific as some can make out it to be.


----------



## bennielou (Apr 22, 2010)

Overread said:


> Exactly and that is why I say that I would not advise a person to shoot pro with a rebel, but that does not mean one cannot produce salable results with one. The additional features of even the prosumer DSLRs make them far more suitable for professional and consistant grade work.
> 
> However I don't let canons marketing team and terminology define what is and is not possible in the real world - a rebel camera body in teh right hands (and I'd also say with the right lens) can produce results that a person can sell without fear of appearing substandard.
> 
> Again its not about saying everyone with a rebel can and is a pro nor is it saying every shot is salable, but it is recognising that results from these cameras is not as horrific as some can make out it to be.


 
Hey, I've seen fantastic results from a cell cam.  That was more about the photog than the camera.
Can people take "non horrific" shots with a Rebel?  Yes of course.  But I wouldn't base my business rep on it.


----------



## bennielou (Apr 22, 2010)

Overread said:


> Exactly and that is why I say that I would not advise a person to shoot pro with a rebel, but that does not mean one cannot produce salable results with one. The additional features of even the prosumer DSLRs make them far more suitable for professional and consistant grade work.
> 
> However I don't let canons marketing team and terminology define what is and is not possible in the real world - a rebel camera body in teh right hands (and I'd also say with the right lens) can produce results that a person can sell without fear of appearing substandard.
> 
> Again its not about saying everyone with a rebel can and is a pro nor is it saying every shot is salable, but it is recognising that results from these cameras is not as horrific as some can make out it to be.


 
At the end of the day, your tools, in most cases, will decide how much money you are worth.  Even with my tools, I have people show up at a wedding sporting even bigger gear than I have.
But the photog has to go home and process these photos.  They will look as good as the sensor limits them.  They could do the best processing in the entire word, shoot the best photo ever, but they are still limited by what the camera is capable of.  And based off of that, you will recieve that kind of payment in return.


----------



## Overread (Apr 22, 2010)

Exactly - in theory at least - the better your tools and (ofcourse) the better your skills the better the end product and thus the better your pay.

Only..... sometimes the best photographers and the best artists get paid peanuts compared to some who produce rather average grade work, but have the idea, gumption and skill to market themselves in a manner that lets them charge their prices.


----------



## bennielou (Apr 22, 2010)

Overread said:


> Exactly - in theory at least - the better your tools and (ofcourse) the better your skills the better the end product and thus the better your pay.
> 
> Only..... sometimes the best photographers and the best artists get paid peanuts compared to some who produce rather average grade work, but have the idea, gumption and skill to market themselves in a manner that lets them charge their prices.


 
And that is very true. Off topic, but true. In Dallas, I am in the pit with the best of the best. Besides Southern California, and Australia, we have the toughest market anywhere.
Some are great sales people, some are not. I'm always amazed when I win a deal over a photographer who I think is better.

But getting back to the topic on hand, better tools make your photos look better.


And it's not theory, it is a fact as I know it.
I started with the 20D, then the 30D, and then on to 5s and Marks. I sit here and process all this stuff and there is a huge difference. We do not let our assistants shoot with substandard cameras because it's too hard to match the quality. We loan them our extras. I've never had anyone show up with a Rebel.

Hey, Rebels are great for backyard photos of the kids, and flowers, and all that kind of stuff. I'm not dissing it. But it's simply not up to pro standards or what a client would expect from someone they pay. I mean maybe so if you are a Master Certified Photographer coming in with all kinds of lighting, but then again, Master Certified Photographers are not using Rebels. There is a reason.


----------



## bultican (Apr 22, 2010)

Jason,
Find some tutorials on the internet for using a dSLR.  Your Xsi has all the bells and whistles of most dSLR cameras, so any tutorial will do as it will tell you what these settings do, etc.  It looks like you are trying to manually focus on your subjects, but it can look in-focus in the viewfinder, but once it's on the computer screen, not so much.  One tip that will help that right away is to either use the autofocus (which will do a good job for the types of photos you posted here), or use manual focus, but zoom in as far as you can on some fine detail of your subject, then focus, then zoom back out.  

The bottom line is that if you are passionate about learning and doing, you'll be fine.  I bought my first dSLR (a Canon XSi nonetheless), 2 years ago when they first came out, was very passionate about it, and I mastered the camera in about one full year.  Although, it may be better described as an addiction instead of a passion.

Good luck


----------



## bennielou (Apr 22, 2010)

bultican said:


> Jason,
> Find some tutorials on the internet for using a dSLR. Your Xsi has all the bells and whistles of most dSLR cameras, so any tutorial will do as it will tell you what these settings do, etc. It looks like you are trying to manually focus on your subjects, but it can look in-focus in the viewfinder, but once it's on the computer screen, not so much. One tip that will help that right away is to either use the autofocus (which will do a good job for the types of photos you posted here), or use manual focus, but zoom in as far as you can on some fine detail of your subject, then focus, then zoom back out.
> 
> The bottom line is that if you are passionate about learning and doing, you'll be fine. I bought my first dSLR (a Canon XSi nonetheless), 2 years ago when they first came out, was very passionate about it, and I mastered the camera in about one full year. Although, it may be better described as an addiction instead of a passion.
> ...


 

My goodness.  You are not helping this poster.

You DO want to manual focus.  That is the only way most pros shoot.    We like to control our shots, not put it on auto.

Not sure where you are going with the focus in, then back out, then focus in thing.  It has to do with the lens.

Being passionate, unfortuately, doesn't pay the bills.  I wish it did.  I'd be making a million bucks. 

And people blowing smoke, don't help either.  This poster wants to go pro.  No worries.  But he needs good advice.


----------



## Overread (Apr 22, 2010)

Manual focus vs Auto focus

this comes down greatly to the subject area, experience, camera body, lighting conditions and I am sure a few other factors that I have overlooked. It is simply not a cut and dry MF or AF only situation.

First of its important to note that for manual focusing pretty much all DSLRs are poorer at this than the older generation film camera bodies - the simple reason for this is that DSLRs are made with auto focus in mind as being the major focusing mode used and they thus lack in viewfinder focusing aids that the film cameras have. Furthermore untill you get into the midrange and pro line bodies the viewfinders are often a lot smaller and dimmer and some do not even give a full 100% view of the lens image (its normally not far off 100%, but its not true 100%). 

With that in mind you then have to consider the situation - if you are shooting sports, wildlife, kids running around, birds and mostly anything currently or likley to be mobile then auto focus (used correctly) is the tool most reach for. It's faster and often far more accurate - again using it correctly is the key here to getting the proper results. Often for action work most photographers stick to AIservo for constant AF and will also use only one af point rather than all the af points on the camera. This allows them to track a moving subject and also keep the camera pointed at the part they want in focus rather than have the camera pick and choose (because the camera will make mistakes and tends to focus only on the closest thing to it). 

Manual focus however can be the bread and butter mode for many and studio, product, macro photography are all areas where manual focus can/is the main form of focusing used because the subject is reletivly motionless and the speed of AF is not needed (and in something like macro work manaul focus is also more accurate). Lowlight work is also another area where sometimes manual is needed because the AF cannot get enough light to get a suitable lock onto a subject. 

The key here is to try and learn how to use both and then make the right call at the right time as to which to choose to use.


----------



## TomBlaze (Apr 22, 2010)

Interesting responses thus far.

As an XSi owner I am aware of the limitations of the model howver it can produce excellent shots in the right conditions. For sharp images, ISO should never go beyond 200. 400 can work but avoid it at all costs.

I am assuming you are using the Kit lens. The 18-55mm isn't very ideal but you can still pull off good saleable shots.

A few things to keep in mind:

1. The 18-55mm kit lens works best in daylight or bright indoor settings. This will alllow for higher speed shots with low ISO (100 being the target as mush as possible)
2. Make sure image stabilization is switched on (when shooting by hand).
3. Do not use manual focus. AF works better in most circumstances. Pay attention to the red lights in your veiwfinder. Where it blinks is where it's in focus. You can customize what points you want to focus on or leave it at auto and keep half-pressing the shutter button until the area you want in focus gets a flashing red point. Then snap the shot.
4. Flash helps as well but the built-in flash sucks so invest in a decent flash. I would suggest the 430 ex II. Great features and relatively inexpensive.
5. For shooting, use the BRAS method. Breath (take in a breath let it out and hold). Relax. Aim. Squeeze.
6. Try shooting in burst mode and take 3-4-shot bursts. The middle ones usually come out a little sharper. As you improve you will not need to do this as it fills up the card pretty quickly.

I only got into this a year ago myself but I have been obsessed ever since. I have a bathroom full of photography magazines.  Hope my input helps!


----------



## ghpham (Apr 22, 2010)

Manual Focus on a DSLR is not easy as it seems, at least to me anyway.  I would think you need to buy a focusing screen and install on the camera.  I am not comfortable tinkering with the camera to install the new focusing screen


----------



## JasonLambert (Apr 22, 2010)

I feel as if I just got off a roller coaster... Off topic... On topic... Use AF.... Don't use AF.... XSI does a good job... XSI sucks... lol Weeeeeee!!!!!

Just kidding ya'll, Thanks for everything. I will take it all in and form my own theory. Then one day I will be able to place my own hills and valleys in some noobs thread! By the way... I wanted to share this pic... Wasn't planing on shooting just getting an evening walk with the wife and saw this.... RAN back to the car and got the camera!


----------



## bennielou (Apr 22, 2010)

Ok, I'm definately in the wrong forum. 

The Rebel with a kit lens is super fantastic for shooting all things, especially on P mode.

That is sarcastic, I know.  Sorry about that, but some of the replies here are just freaking me out.

Best of all to you guys, and I honestly hope your dreams come true.
Many Hugs!


----------



## fokker (Apr 23, 2010)

bennielou said:


> Ok, I'm definately in the wrong forum.
> 
> The Rebel with a kit lens is super fantastic for shooting all things, especially on P mode.
> 
> ...



I think the level of advice you're trying to offer to the OP, while sound advice, may be a bit above the level where he's at right now. As with all things you have to crawl before you can walk. He is not at the level where the changing cameras/sensors will make a smack of difference, and using manual focus all the time will cause many more missed shots than learning to first use AF properly. He needs to focus on the basics like camera handling before he runs out to buy a 1D.


----------



## TomBlaze (Apr 23, 2010)

fokker said:


> bennielou said:
> 
> 
> > Ok, I'm definately in the wrong forum.
> ...



Who needs talent when you can have a 1D. 

I hope the sarcasm is noticeable here.


----------

