# $9k budget on lighting and studio, what to get? Portability is a must..



## krbimaging (Jul 13, 2014)

So I have a 9K budget to buy all the lighting and studio equipment I want. The number one thing is portability.
This price has to include softboxes and any other modifiers. My studio will be set up to shoot everything from people to automotive.
I already have a couple light stands for flashes and umbrellas.
i'm looking for people to look at my list and see if there are any things I am missing. Also you can see I am leaning toward Mono lights. Should I consider power packs instead for my lighting? I have no experience with power packs I'm open to the idea of a powerpack though.

1. Profoto b1 dual monolight head kit. 500w plus two extra batteries (very portable)
2. One ea. profoto D1 monolight 1000w (provides a powerful light source and can get dialed back too)
3. Air trigger
4. 3x4 softbox with grid
5. 4' octagon softbox
6. Beauty dish
7. Connection rings connects the softboxes to the heads
8. Three light stand
9. Background support
10. 7 muslin backgrounds in various colors (black, white, green, blue, grey, tan, brown)
11. One large faux wood floor/backdrop. (I can see a lot of use for this)

this list about maxes my budget out at BH.


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## tirediron (Jul 13, 2014)

I'd go for more smaller lights (2 x 500, 3 x 250) and more modifiers.  I wouldn't waste money on 7 backdrops; medium gray and white are all you need, gels will take care of everything else.  Profoto is great, but you'll never convince the price premium is worth it.  Consider Elinchrom if you want monolights, or Dynalite/Speedotron to get a LOT more bang for your buck.  Used lights are a great deal!


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## D-B-J (Jul 13, 2014)

I don't have much experience with higher-end lighting equipment, but logically I'd rather have more smaller powered lights than 2 large lights.  I've found that three speedlights is limiting at times, and I'd love to have a fourth.  So personally, I'd want the ability to have more smaller lights. 

Jake


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## D-B-J (Jul 13, 2014)

Also, for 9K I feel like you could get SOO much more...


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## krbimaging (Jul 14, 2014)

The Profoto B1 is the only Monolight they have that has the battery pack option and it is only available in the 500W. Also with the Air remote it has TTL capability. This is the main reason I chose the Profoto B1. The single 1000w would give me a very strong light when I need it also I can dial it back anytime too. The 1000 would be my back fill light 90% of it's time and there are times I have allot of area to fill in. I went with higher wattages because I want to be able to fill outside shoots at night with light. Automotive shoots need much more light and from a greater distance. Also the thought process is, if I ever need it I want to have it. If I settle for lower wattage will I later regret it? 
In comparison the backdrops are really low in cost, $60-90 each. So that's kinda why I stacked them in. I honestly didn't even think about gels. Thanks for mentioning that! 
Just explaining more of my thought process here, that way if there are alternatives I can consider people know why I am looking at what I a.


> three speedlights is limiting at times, and I'd love to have a fourth
> 
> Also, for 9K I feel like you could get SOO much more...


I have 5 Canon 600 Speedlights that I am using now. They can really do a good job. Battery life and recycle time are a big pain in my butt. So I need to find a better solution hence the battery Mono lights that can also get plugged into a generator when need them 
I thought the same thing that's the same reason I am here asking these questions before I spend the money.


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## Overread (Jul 14, 2014)

What about
Safari Portable Flash System | Lencarta

There's also another brand in the USA doing similar small portable flash lights though I can't recall their name. Certainly if you want high mobility without a generator these smaller units with batteries are one way to go. Though for the price you could probably get 3 or 4 of the new Canon 600 flash units with the built in radio triggers. Granted you're sacrificing power there so if raw power is what you want then the portable studio lights are going to give you that; the speedlites though might give you the option of more lights and with the canon radio flash units you don't have to worry about buying a separate wireless radio trigger setup (and all the cables and faff that comes with it).

It might also be an idea to consider focusing your setup on one or two areas of lighting and get really good quality equipment to suit those conditions only. And then as time passes invest further; rather than trying to get it all at once. You might find doing it all at once ends up with the big expensive options for each niche interest eats up the budget too much and leaves you less to use for support items in those niche areas


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## Village Idiot (Jul 14, 2014)

Profoto is uber expensive. I wouldn't mind a set.

Packs are good if you want power. The problem is, you'll probably need more than one if you're shooting a larger area as the cables only go so far and extensions will help, but are still limiting. If you're shooting to kill the sun or doing larger things like automotive, you'll want more power. 250-500 w/s lights are good when shooting individuals or small groups, but if you're shooting where you have to pull the light back for coverage and less fall off, then you'll quickly realize that even 500w/s might not be enough. I had a Bee 640 at one point and it wouldn't cut it for day time shooting unless it was close to the subject, especially when using a softbox.

As far as batteries, you don't have to go with the brand of the lights you buy. Batteries like the Paul C Buff vagabond lithiums are a lot cheaper and if they work with your lights they'll save you a ton of money. I use a VML from PCB on my Dynalite 800w/s pack. If works phenomenally and cost me less than $250.

With Dynalite, you could pick up two 800w/s packs and 4 heads for under $5,000. In fact, there's not a huge benefit when going with the lower end Profotos unless there's a feature they have that you absolutely need or you already have the modifiers. If you were looking at something like their digital pack that appears to have separate control over all four channels, then that's different, but those packs range from $5,000-$7,000 new, IIRC. When it comes down to it, light is light. You could get away with a set of $200 monolights and get similar images that a Profoto light would get, but what you wouldn't get are the features, the consistency, the modifiers, and maybe a few other things.


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## Tee (Jul 14, 2014)

Are you dead set on Profoto?


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## tirediron (Jul 14, 2014)

Tee said:


> Are you dead set on Profoto?



And if so, why?


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## Scatterbrained (Jul 14, 2014)

krbimaging said:


> The Profoto B1 is the only Monolight they have that has the battery pack option and it is only available in the 500W. Also with the Air remote it has TTL capability. This is the main reason I chose the Profoto B1. ........



 First let me say that I think TTL on a monolight is great.  However, I don't think it's of any real use for static subjects.  I see TTL on a monolight as being a great way to shoot action sports, but for portraits (people or cars) I'd still want to shoot in the traditional manner, i.e.,   set up and meter the lights then shoot.   If you don't see yourself shooting fast moving action, or chasing around a subject with your VAL in tow then I'd consider foregoing the TTL monolights and getting some powerful lights with a few external battery packs, like the PCB Vagabond Mini Extreme, and a good light meter.  

Also, if you plan on doing a lot of shooting outside you should look into some large scrims or butterfly panels.


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## Derrel (Jul 14, 2014)

I'm sorry, but Profoto is very much overrated and overpriced for a person just starting out. You're pouring money down the drain paying for the world's FIRST ttl studio flash unit. Ever wondered why there is NO OTHER TTL studio-type flash unit on the market?

You really need a lot more "stuff" than just lights. I do not consider 1,000 watt-seconds a "powerful" flash...used Speedotron 2,400 Watt-second packs are cheap. You can put 2,400 W-s through one, single flash head, or divide that up and send it though ,2,3,4,5 or 6 heads...

I'm not sold on Profoto's "slickness" or expense...I just do not buy into it for general use. I would look at Dynalite, Speedotron, Bowens, Elinchrom as being much better value for money spent.Even the Paul C. Buff Einstein is relatively close to Profoto for features-on-paper. 

Studio flash gear, what does one brand have in common with every other brand? it's allll overpriced when bought new ! Buy used lighting gear! There are thousands of failed professional studio shooters selling their bought-new, high-priced used flash setups every month. Keep that in mind: there are thousands of failed professional studio shooters selling their barely-used flash gear, every month.

I would rather have MORE flash units and MORE grip gear and MORE modifiers and light shaping tools, than a set of Profoto lights that broke the bank and gave me less raw power, and fewer light heads, than I could afford with any of several other brands.


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## webrotate360 (Jul 14, 2014)

Adding continuous lighting set (cool / fluorescent) can help a lot with product photography if you will be doing it at all. There's a bunch of cheap continuous kits that you can quickly find online.


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## Overread (Jul 14, 2014)

I think if the OP were doing products and only products then continuous lighting might be a consideration - however outside of products continuous lights have more limited use; plus most studio lights have modelling lights built into them. So you can turn them on to get a feel of what the light will do your shot before you use the flash function to take the actual shot.


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## Derrel (Jul 14, 2014)

krbimaging said:


> So I have a 9K budget to buy all the lighting and studio equipment I want. The number one thing is portability.
> This price has to include softboxes and any other modifiers. My studio will be set up to shoot everything from people to automotive.
> I already have a couple light stands for flashes and umbrellas.
> i'm looking for people to look at my list and see if there are any things I am missing. Also you can see I am leaning toward Mono lights. Should I consider power packs instead for my lighting? I have no experience with power packs I'm open to the idea of a powerpack though.
> ...



I just re-read this. THAT is all you get for $9k?? OMG...you are lacking sooooooo much needed, really NEEDED stuff. I say yes to pack and head systems, used, not new. I see three light heads, less than a handful of stands, no reflectors, no boom stands, no grids, no diffusers. Here's my suggestion. Buy a used Speedotron D405, 3-outlet power pack for portability, and run that and three 103-fan-free flash heads off of a Paul C, Buff Mini Vagabond,m or another brand's portable battery/sine wave. FOREGT PROFOTO LIGHTS....they are KILLING you! or pick up a used D804, 4-outlet pack, and use the same thing, 103, fan-free heads for use off of an inverter.

You need MANY flash heads. Like SIX of them. Seriously. And you need at least FOUR 7.5 inch reflectors, and four 11.5 inch reflectors, and also a 16- or 20- or 22-inch parabolic reflector, oplus at LEAST two sets of barn doors in the 7.5 and 11.5 inch sizes, plus one for the biggest reflector you have. You also need at least TWO FULL sets of honeycomb grids for the 7.5 and 1.5 inchers, and also at least a 35 degree grid for the 16- to 22-incher, and also a BUNCH of Speedtron snap-on mylar diffusers.

MY Suggestion: a MIXTURE of Speedotron Black Line light units and power packs, with a mix of Speedotron Brown Line M11 flash heads, which use all of the accessories the Black Line sues: the M11 Brown Line light can use all the snap-on mylar diffusers, reflectors, grids, projection boxes, snoots, and so on, from the Black Line. Here's an article I wrote seven years or more ago on this system Derrel's Photography Blog: My 99th Blog Post: Speedotron Overview 2008

You also need a TON of grip stuff!!! At least three C-stands, plus six or more portable,lightweight stands, reflectors and grip arms, A-clamps, and at LEAST one, heavy duty boom  and castor-base boom stand with 15.5 pound counterweight; preferably two. You do not need Profoto lights: they are KILLING you!!! You need real, everyday light-shaping tools. get some Vellum paper, and some snap-on diffusers for the lights, and some grids. A 3x4 foot softbox and an Octabox is just the same old ***+, and is not much more than a big wash of light modifier. You need some grids, and some diffusers too, and some barn doors, so you can CONTROL your light....

Buy TWO used 202 or 206 VF Varible Focusing heads for Black Line. Use the three 103 heads for the mobile kit as needed. used 102 or 102A heads a re affordable on eBay.

For $5,000 on e-Bay you can built a 10x better studio setup. Forget Profoto lights and get the stuff you really,really NEED. You can buy a whole, entire Studio set in Speedotron, and then buy an entire SECOND "mobile" set for less than the price of a 70-200 zoom.

Speedotron Products Accessories
Speedotron Products Accessories
Speedotron Products Accessories

Westcott Scrim Jim And Matthews Bounce Boards. Perfect Combo | Erik Naso
Scrims, Reflectors, Butterfly's, Overheads - What's good, what's not?: Studio and Lighting Technique Forum: Digital Photography Review


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## webrotate360 (Jul 14, 2014)

They are cheap though comparing to the rest of the setup he has on the list and have much more use than the built-in modeling lights.


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## Scatterbrained (Jul 14, 2014)

webrotate360 said:


> They are cheap though comparing to the rest of the setup he has on the list and have much more use than the built-in modeling lights.



Try using them outside during the day.


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## webrotate360 (Jul 14, 2014)

Much more use vs modeling lights in a studio setting of course.. I thought he's building a studio.


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## Derrel (Jul 14, 2014)

This post is like so many lighting posts...it features the name "Profoto" prominently, and has a solid budget of $9,000, and yet because it prominently features the name "Profoto", the OP cannot even afford the bread, or the mayo or the mustard or the onions or the pickles or the tomato to make his sammiches...he's shot the whole wad on the lunch meat, and has nothing else to really support it, to wrap around it, to make a sammich...

Shooting "cars" and a priority being "portability" doesn't make a lot of sense. The priority being "portability" would favor battery-operated speedlights first; battery-operated strobes second; and then monolights or pack and head systems dead, dead last. How about, for a portable system, the top priority being RUGGEDNESS under actual use...which leaves two brands as king: Speedotron or Dynalite.

As far as power and overpowering the Arizona sun. The last time I tested, a Speedotron D2400 pack with ONE 102 flash head accepting a mere 1/6 of the power, or 400 Watt-seconds, and an 11.5 inch 50-degree reflector gave a *15 foot-distant* reading outdoors, not indoors, of f/13 at ISO 200, the then base ISO of my then-current Nikon. Unlike Paul C. Buff, when Speedotron says, "400 Watt-seconds", the amount of power is real, not some bull$shi+ number slapped on a light that has basically, 66% less power and lower output.

Not some B.S. telephoto or long-throw reflector...a regular, 11.5 inch grid reflector, firing 400 Watt-seconds, off of a $500 20 year-old pack, capable of firing SIX total lights...each just as powerful as this....or even MORE powerful with fewer heads.

If you want to shoot outdoors in the Arizona sun, and you want to light cars and big areas, three expensive monolights that kill a $9k budget is NOT the right way to allocate the money.


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## Village Idiot (Jul 14, 2014)

Derrel said:


> I'm sorry, but Profoto is very much overrated and overpriced for a person just starting out. You're pouring money down the drain paying for the world's FIRST ttl studio flash unit. Ever wondered why there is NO OTHER TTL studio-type flash unit on the market?
> 
> You really need a lot more "stuff" than just lights. I do not consider 1,000 watt-seconds a "powerful" flash...used Speedotron 2,400 Watt-second packs are cheap. You can put 2,400 W-s through one, single flash head, or divide that up and send it though ,2,3,4,5 or 6 heads...
> 
> ...



There are some things they bring to the table, but nothing that a beginner would need.

D4 Studio Generators

I've always like the 4 channel packs with four individual power controls compared to the standard operation of a pack system.

They also have an amazing recycle time...on their $13,000 packs. There's a band who's video was shot by a photographer or group of photographers that used something like 8 of those packs and over $100,000 in (rented) lighting gear because they could keep up with the 10fps of the Canon 1D series cameras they were using to do a stop motion video.

Profoto Pro-8A 2400 Air Power Pack 901004 B&H Photo Video


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## Derrel (Jul 14, 2014)

Profoto also brings some amazzzzing horse&hi+ to the table...like this $675 front porch light dome fixture....  Profoto Pro Globe and Ring for Profoto Heads 100673 B&H Photo

Wanna *talk about gouging the customer*??? See above!!!

http://strobist.blogspot.fr/2012/04/home-depot-homebrew-of-643-profoto.html


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## Tee (Jul 14, 2014)

$9,000 is plenty to start a nice studio/ location set-up.  You can buy so much quality lighting and gear for less as Derrel notes above.     

Profoto is good but I'm not sure if the OP realizes the modifiers cost soooooo much money.  Heck, a carrying case for their beauty dish runs upwards of $250 alone.  And, I don't know how else to word this but,....looking at the OP's Flikr, I have a feeling Profoto might be a little too much too soon for his skill level.  It's very easy to get roped into the branding of Profoto but there are so many more options out there.  Elinchrom, Bowens, etc.  So much quality out there at a better cost.  

Lastly, if your budget is $9k, then I would set your budget at $7k because there are going to be little things you're forgetting or will find works better than another and will want more of.

P.S. Don't forget a light meter.


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## Tee (Jul 14, 2014)

For grins and giggles, I looked at how much I spent on my lighting set-up which is pretty all purpose.  This is all Elinchrom with the exception of one Interfit softbox. 

For lights and modifiers only:



2- 500BXRi monolights
1- 250BXRi monolight
1- D-Lite 200RX monolight
53" Octobox
42"X24" softbox (Interfit)
2- 24X24 softbox
15X36 stripbox
beauty dish w/ sock and grid
snoot w/ grid
4- reflectors
4- honeycomb grids of various degrees
1 pack ND gels for lights
1 pack color gels for lights
40" 5-way reflector

I got all of the above for just *under $2,800*.  I started out with 2 lights and 2 soft boxes, figured out what I needed and built my kit from there.  I found everything but the beauty dish and 2 lights on buy-n-sell forums for 25-50% cheaper than paying retail.  The only modifier I could see adding in the future is a barn door and large PLM type modifier.  I haven't needed one yet so I won't buy until the need arises.  

As you can see, you can get a good lighting kit for far less than your budget.  Why not keep a few grand in savings?  

BTW- I can get 750-1000 pops on one Vagabond Mini battery compared to the estimated 220 pops of a Profoto B1. I have 2 batteries but have yet to expire one battery in a location session (2-3 hours).


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## Village Idiot (Jul 15, 2014)

Derrel said:


> Profoto also brings some amazzzzing horse&hi+ to the table...like this $675 front porch light dome fixture....  Profoto Pro Globe and Ring for Profoto Heads 100673 B&H Photo
> 
> Wanna *talk about gouging the customer*??? See above!!!
> 
> Strobist: Home Depot Homebrew of $643 Profoto Globe Saves You Enough to Buy a Paul Buff Einstein to Put it On



Their modifier prices are kind of ridiculous. They have an umbrella that's several thousand dollars, IIRC.

There are some benefits to profoto of course, so saying they're not worth the money is not necessarily true depending on your business. It's one of the brands that rental houses are going to be more likely to have, but then again, there are others as well.

And the OP needs to check out weights and physical sizes if portability is an issue with the bigger lights. I had a Pelican case with 5 Speedo 202vf heads, a 1200w/s pack, a 400w/s pack, and all the cables that weighed in over 100lbs. That was not fun carrying around my myself and didn't even include the stands and other accessories. It was a great setup when I didn't need to travel too far from the car. 

My Dynalites are much more portable, but even then, they're still heavy. Two heads, an 800w/s pack, two stands, umbrellas, and cables will all fit in to one of my bags and I can carry over a shoulder, but even then they're heavy enough that I wouldn't want to carry them on trek through the woods over a mile to reach my shooting destination (like I've easily done with speed lights). Certain monolights may not be heavy because of their plastic housings, but they're bulky compared to a pack and head style head and where you could easily fit 3-5 compact heads in a bag, that many monolights would require a lot bigger bag or case to fit in.

Speaking of portability. Speedlights may be an option, which with your budget, you could afford 3 or so cheap $100-$150 speed lights for those days where carrying a full studio setup on location isn't feasible. I've shot in location I shouldn't exactly be in and in locations where it's a several mile trek to where I'm shooting. If you're doing anything like this, you don't want the big lights. I've even shot in the rain and a gallon freezer bag will hold a speedlight and a trigger just nicely letting you shoot in conditions where you wouldn't want to have big lights in. The nice thing about diversity though is all the options out there. Elinchrom makes a weather resistant pack and head system that may be battery powered (the Ranger). I've seen a lot of snow sport photographers use them because of the wet conditions they shoot in.

You really need to think about all your options that you'll be shooting and you might even want to take some time before you buy so that way you're not purchasing a set of lights and wanting a different set down the line because they do something you feel you need vs. want you think you want now.


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## krbimaging (Jul 28, 2014)

I was pretty hard set on the Profoto B1 so I got 2 (a kit). Yes, I bought 2 of their Softboxes also and I can tell you these things are some of the best made I have ever seen. Super tough outer hide. Light weight and very easy to set up. The Profoto B1 is it's Firmware upgradable. It works with the Air Remote that uses the TTL on my camera and it's also Firmware upgradeable. If you don't like TTL, fine, don't use it. I do like it. NO wires or cords anywhere. The quality is excellent. I added two extra rechargeable batteries too.

 If I want a cheap light modifier on my Profoto I can fit one too. Everyone makes a mount that fits the Profoto. Just because my lights are ProFoto doesn't mean I have to use their modifiers. This is one main thing this post helped with was get me looking around and found allot of modifiers that will work.

I ended up with 5 backgrounds and stands for them. Black, White, Chroma green, Dark tan and a reversible grey/blue.

Stands, and a few other misc items where also purchased.

I also got a IKAN 500W LED bicolor light with some barn doors. This will be a versatile item to have and it can run off a battery system as well.

I stayed well under my 9K budget. My plan is to work with what I got and see what areas I need to fill in. Then I can buy it.

I've already used the B1 and it makes my Canon 600s obsolete. Talk about recycle times being awesome!. Oh just in case anyone wondered the B1 is rated at 220 Flashes at full power. Everything I have shot so far has been at 1/4 power or less. Thus making them shoot for far longer. I took 650 shots and still had half a battery left. When I need those full power shots these lights will go it. But I don't see the need until I am outside at night.


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## Tee (Jul 28, 2014)

If you're happy then that's all that matters. :thumbup:

Keep in mind when buying third party modifiers, make sure you do your homework.  Often the cheap price comes with its disadvantages such as color cast through the diffuser panels or uneven light output around the edges (some cheap diffusers can lose 1.5-2 stops of light compared to the center).  Check buy-n-sell forums (like Fred Miranda) for people selling Profoto gear.  There's almost always a loaded rich dude who found a new hobby to spend money on and wants to get rid of his gear at a nominal price.


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## sscarmack (Jul 28, 2014)

Cant wait to see your photos with these new lights.


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## studio460 (Jul 29, 2014)

Strobes/grip/modifiers:

My only caveat is that you may discover that what you want/need now, may be _completely_ different after experiencing a year's worth of more varied assignments. The Profoto B1s are awesome for on-location fashion with an assistant-held modifier, positioned relatively close to your subjects, but for larger set-ups, you may need a lot more than 1,000Ws of portable power for shooting daylight exteriors (e.g., 2,000-4,000Ws). In fact, for many exteriors, a lot of pros use extremely large scrims and reflectors in addition to (or, in place of) high-powered strobes.

My new favorite lighting-control system is Lastolite's re-designed line of portable 6.6' x 6.6' Skylite scrims and reflectors. However, for bigger set-ups, even larger scrims may be required (e.g., 10' x 10', 20' x 20'), plus the requisite pile of ultra-heavy grip gear to rig it. I would consider spending a fair amount of your budget on grip alone (steel location stands, booms, shotbags, scrims, reflectors, etc.). Then again, I've seen a ton of high-profile shoots photographed with just a stupid California Sunbounce reflector:







Personally, I took a piecemeal approach to building my strobe set-up. I basically built separate systems, designed for different types of shoots. Initially, I bought a pile of Speedlights, but the first strobe I bought was a used Dynalite Uni400 AC/DC monolight (which also included a Chimera QR speedring, 18" Dynalite beauty dish, and a Jackrabbit II, all for a fraction of what it would've cost new). However, in retrospect, I wished I would've purchased a pair of Elinchroms (for direct-mounting of their excellent "foldable" modifiers), or a couple of Einstein E640s instead (for their extremely wide power-range).

Later, I purchased a couple of open-box Speedotron Force 10 AC monolights (1,000Ws each), for high-output daylight exteriors, plus two, used Dynalite XP-1100 AC inverters to power them. Total damage: just over $2,000 for 2,000Ws of battery-powered, location strobe lighting (of course, Watt-for-Watt, this only cost a quarter of what B1s would've cost, but it weighs five times more!). Now, had I to do it all over again, I may have chosen differently (although, I'm very happy with the performance of the pair of Speedotron/XP-1100s I own), and of course, I'm still pondering what to do next (see my post in another thread here). While almost anyone's modifiers can be mounted on any brand's strobes, there's certainly benefits to staying within one brand for both strobes and modifiers. FWIW, here's my brief take on the modifiers I've bought, or am now considering:


Profoto RFi:

&#8232;&#8232;&#8226; Canvas-like build&#8232; (i.e., "durable," but _heavy_).
&#8226; Silver interiors (my preference, since they're cooler than white interiors).
&#8232;&#8226; Recessed-fronts accommodate Velcro-attached softgrids.&#8232;
&#8226; Available softgrids for the entire RFi product line (but I've substituted less expensive, tighter grids from other manufacturers).&#8232;
&#8226; Special features: None, other than their color-keyed speedrings.






The Profoto modifiers I've used and own are well-built, but their larger modifiers (e.g., 4' x 6") are simply too heavy for their rods, and permanently bend out of shape within a few hours (I had two 4' x 6' Profoto softboxes, which I promptly returned). I own a 3' and 5' Profoto RFi octa which I use with both Speedlights and monolights. Contrary to popular perception, their smaller RFi softboxes are fairly affordable, and in fact, their 5' octa costs less then Photoflex' version. One thing I do like about Profoto is their Dynalite speedring--one of the most secure designs available. But, their speedrings made for non-Profoto strobes are heavy, made of solid steel, adding even more weight (and, expense) to your package.

&#8232;&#8232;Photoflex:&#8232;&#8232;

&#8226; Nylon build (lightweight).
&#8232;&#8226; Recessed-front.
&#8232;&#8226; Available softgrids.
&#8232;&#8226; Special features: Patented "Quick Release Corners."

&#8232;&#8232;Lightweight and decent quality, and most are reasonably priced. Their nylon construction makes them extremely light, which I like. I own a Photoflex 54" x 72" LiteDome which weighs almost nothing, but I also bought a similarly designed, nylon Calumet 54" x 72" softbox at their liquidation sale--I couldn't resist [note: it's better to buy all the same brand when purchasing white-interior softboxes]. For a softgrid, I bought the Calumet grid which was significantly less expensive than the Photoflex-branded grid.

Elinchrom Rotalux:&#8232;&#8232;

&#8226; Nylon build (lightweight).
&#8232;&#8226; Flush-front (does _not_ accommodate softgrids).
&#8232;&#8226; Special features: Unique "umbrella-like" design makes for rapid set-up/tear-down (possibly the most attractive feature of the entire system).

I haven't used these myself, but I think they're next on the list. I can't tell you how much I hate building traditional softboxes on-set, _including_ my Profoto RFis, which incorporate no such innovations, and plug into speedrings the same way every other softbox does. For any particular job, I usually build them at home and bring them on-set already pre-built. Sticking steel pins under tension into 8mm holes is not my idea of fun.


You seem pretty set on getting the B1s, and that's fine, if they fulfill a specific requirement that's appropriate for that particular tool. However, keep in mind, that your needs/tastes/working style may change as you take on more varied assignments, and may require acquiring a completely different set of tools in the future. Good luck!


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## studio460 (Jul 29, 2014)

Applications:

I just looked at your Flickr gallery, and not to be too presumptuous, but I don't see a lot of strobe work there. Unless money really is no object for you, I would reconsider your options. If you could describe exactly the types of shoots you're planning to shoot, that would better define the tools you would need. It looks like you're planning to shoot single and/or group portraits using backdrops. Plus, you also want to shoot cars. Maybe you're planning to create a portfolio using models with cars?

In-studio portraiture:

For in-studio portraiture, you would need more units. I use four strobes (actually, a combination of Speedlights, a Qflash, and one AC monolight). Here's the conventional set-up (whether AC monolights, head-and-pack heads, or Speedlights, I'll use the term "strobe" to apply to all):

&#8226; Strobe A: primary key.
&#8226; Strobe B: fill.
&#8226; Strobe C: backlight.
&#8226; Strobe D: background light.

Now, typically, in-studio, you have access to 120VAC, so you wouldn't want to use up your pricey Li-ion batteries for interior applications (I don't even know if the B1s are powerable by AC--are they?). I see that the B1s have an extremely wide power range (2-500Ws), so you won't have an issue with too much output (an issue I'm dealing with now, using my 400Ws Dynalite monolight). But what will you use for your hairlight and background lights? As others have mentioned, a pack-and-head system would take care of this type of shoot quite nicely. As monolights become increasingly popular, used pack-and-head systems are now quite the bargain [personally, I'm planning an all-Speedlight portrait lighting set-up as described in another thread]. Four, individual AC monolights would also work (which I personally prefer over head-and-pack systems). 

Daylight exteriors--model with a car:

For this type of shoot, I think the B1s would work great. Use one B1 on the model, and perhaps rake the car with the second B1. But at only 500Ws each, you won't be able to use large softboxes under direct-sun, unless they're _extremely _close to your subjects. For a large exterior shoot in mid-day sun, I would want to have 2,000-4,000Ws. If shooting under cloud cover, or at dusk, the B1s should be fine.

Given just these two examples, I would suggest more varied strobe set-ups in your inventory. Again, personally, I bought separate systems for different things. For example, I purchased all Profoto RFi softboxes with softgrids specifically for interior work. For exterior work, I think the flush-front, non-griddable, Elinchrom Rotalux modifiers are better.

Modifiers:

&#8226; Interiors: Profoto RFi with softgrids.

In-studio shooting often requires more control over stray light, so I chose a modifier system where a softgrid was available for each unit. Photoflex is another manufacturer which offers softgrids for most of their softboxes. Note that the Profoto RFis are heavy and difficult to assemble, so they're better used in more permanent set-ups.


&#8226; Exteriors: Elinchrom Rotalux (no grids).

Since when shooting daylight exteriors, spill isn't really a concern, softgrids aren't necessary. Also, I would choose a nylon-constructed modifier for outdoor use mainly because they're so much lighter than the canvas-like softboxes which are also rated for hot lights (e.g., Profoto RFi). Also, when shooting on location, portability and quick set-up are often the priorities. So, again, Elinchrom's unique umbrella-like Rotalux design is both lightweight and very quick to assemble, and is my first-choice for an outdoor modifier.


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## Tee (Jul 29, 2014)

I'm pretty sure the OP had it dead set in his mind he was going with Profoto and was hoping to validate his thoughts by collecting pats on the head and "oohs" and "ahhh's" from the crowd, only to receive many replies helping him make use of his money in a more feasible manner.  This explains why he never replied yet logged in often and finally replied when he made his purchase.  Like I said, as long as he's happy then I say mazel tov!


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## studio460 (Jul 29, 2014)

Ah . . . gotcha. I have to admit, when I first saw the Profoto B1, I was pretty excited myself. Then, I almost bought a used Ranger Quadra on eBay, then chickened-out. Sure, it'd be nice have some really slick location gear, but since I'm not yet shooting stills full-time, I can't really justify these kinds of purchases. There's a new Godox "Quadra-like" system that's pretty affordable [Godox RS600P], and I may get that (about $700 for a 600Ws head-and-pack, plus a spare battery), but it's only available from eBay importers. And, as an import, I don't think there's going to be any kind of after-sales support. I think it would be interesting to those of us who already own a pile of strobes, if we each thought up a list of all new gear we would purchase instead, given a $9,000 budget.

Here's my re-posted comments from another site about the Godox Xenergizer:



studio460 said:


> _"At least on paper, the new Godox Xenergizer 400Ws/600Ws portable strobe systems seem the top-value buy today. The 12.8V/8.0Ah battery is no slouch--graced with a few more amp-hours of capacity than most other competing systems. Plus, a claimed recycle time of only 2.5-seconds at max power is truly impressive.
> _
> _"At flashhavoc's referred seller, the 600Ws version sells for only $533 USD . . . a super-value compared to competing systems. A bit long in lead time for delivery for their free shipping option, but they also offer expedited shipping for those with more dollars than patience. I'll probably be ordering one soon myself (I just need to find out how much a spare Xenergizer Li-ion battery costs). If it works as advertised, this would be my top-pick for a portable strobe system today.
> 
> " . . . I did finally find a Hong Kong-based eBay seller (GodoxStudio/goodboystudio), selling replacement batteries (in their factory-molded Godox housings) which clip onto the bottom of the Godox pack for $179 USD each (which is a bit less than what a small Bowens TravelPak battery goes for, at $210 each). That makes it a total of *$712 USD* for a complete Godox 600Ws system, *plus* a spare battery."_



According to flashhavoc, they also report that the Xenergizer has a re-designed head, with a "mostly metal build," and is strong enough to support "large softboxes and modifiers" on the unit's built-in *Bowens S-mount*.

So, here's what I think would be a super system on the cheap:

&#8226; Godox Xenergizer RS600P 600Ws portable strobe system with one battery: $533.
&#8226; Godox Xenergizer spare battery: $179.
&#8226; Elinchrom speedring for Bowens: $78.88.
&#8226; Elinchrom 39" Mini-Octa: $254.99, and/or Elinchrom 53" Midi-Octa: $314.99.

That's *$1,045.87* for the set-up with the 39" Mini-Octa, or *$1,105.87* with the 53" Midi-Octa.


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## krbimaging (Aug 2, 2014)

Tee said:


> I'm pretty sure the OP had it dead set in his mind he was going with Profoto and was hoping to validate his thoughts by collecting pats on the head and "oohs" and "ahhh's" from the crowd, only to receive many replies helping him make use of his money in a more feasible manner. This explains why he never replied yet logged in often and finally replied when he made his purchase. Like I said, as long as he's happy then I say mazel tov!




Thats presumptouos... However not entirly inacurate. That answer and many like it are the reasons I didn't return. Allot of attitude and people making assumptions. Not to mention that the absolute best responce came only after I made my purchase, thank you studio 460. This forum tends to have allot of that and also allot of narrow minded people. As for looking for, pats on the head... Seriously...I dont need affermation on how much I spend, just looking for other system options before I spend. 

Also I fail to see how a post like that doesn't generate a distain. It adds no value to the original postings and is just inflammatory.

Also consider that i had another member ask me in a PM about my purchase because they didn't want to ask in open forum for fear of the forum reaction. That says allot about this particular group. I would admit, I only come here as a last resort anymore. This was my first post in a while and I was disapointed. Since I was not getting what I was looking for in responce I saw no need to return. 


Studio460, yea my flickr account really only has allot of my work I have done from along time ago and I keep only certain images there. As with allot of people I know updating it has not been a priority. 


I was mostly interested in systems that would be 100% portable and hassle free. I wanted to be able to use it in studio as well as on the road. The profoto gives me that in spades. But before I made that investment I was looking for other system options. Unfortunately most just balked at my choices and told me to buy something cheaper. Cheaper wasn't an issue... Other options or systems were. Since I was looking at a level and quality that should have been considered in the responces. Like, go look at bronocolor or similar. But all people could seem to do is freak over the cost of profoto... 


Perhaps I have no one to blame but myself.. I knew how this forum acts and I set myself up. I don't care if I get flamed for this or not. I am just expressing my point of view and explaining why I didn't return.


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## Tee (Aug 2, 2014)

Actually, the first 28 posts were pretty darn good (until my snarky post).  Some offered opposing points of view but they were all geared in the direction of helping you choose.  I think your limited amount of gear listed for a studio to location set-up had too high of a price for what you get scenario.  That is why myself and others were encouraging you to look at other brands.  If you notice, I even mentioned you should leave $2,000 aside to allow for growth and extras.  That's coming from experience. And honestly, if you would've answered my post about being dead set on Profoto instead of ignoring it, I would've offered up suggestions pertaining only to Profoto.  But, you didn't.  The reason I asked a short question was because it would've saved a lot of posters the time of explaining and suggesting lighting systems.  Even after you came back to announce you ended up going with Profoto, I still congratulated you and offered up feedback on third party modifiers.   

Lastly, while I admit my post was snarky, it was only after several days of you not replying to anything other members had offered up.  You've been here six months with minimal participation.  Do you know how many low-post members ask these types of questions and don't return?  Seriously, it gets frustrating.  You can be upset at my snarky post but to take your frustration out on the rest of the members who posted in this thread is absurd.


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