# vintage german folding camera



## gusto

Hello Everyone,
    Does anyone know what type of camera this is, it doesn't say it anywhere on the camera. I just know it's folding and it's made in germany..  

Thanks Gus


----------



## oldmacman

I googled "German Pronto" and got lots of images that look similar to this camera. The differences are likely due to model changes.


----------



## Proteus617

Pronto is the name of the shutter, not the camera.


----------



## gusto

Thanks,  still haven't found one online yet...   Gus


----------



## oldmacman

Proteus617 said:


> Pronto is the name of the shutter, not the camera.



Yeah... the info was provided as a strategy for searching and that it provides hits to cameras that are a similar vintage as this unit. 

to OP - There is a listing here that indicates the camera AGC. I cannot quite make out the silver logo from your posting, But it looks like there are some letters in there AICGM? Really hard to tell. Are there other identifying markings that would help your search. I cannot quite make out what it says on the inside of the lens, but it looks like there are some letters in there as well.  Happy hunting.


----------



## compur

AGC is also the name of the shutter.  It's an AGC Pronto shutter.

There are lots of cameras like this made by a number of German mfrs in
the 1920s-40s and it's not unusual to find them without a "brand" name
because they were sold under a variety of names to suit the retailer and/or
distributor or even another mfr. 

However, you might notice that there is writing around the front of lens 
and reading what it says might provide a clue though it likely is only the 
lens mfr. It might also help to see if there's anything written inside the film 
chamber.

It may not be possible to know who actually made the camera body nor 
would there be any great reward in finding out since these cameras aren't 
of great collector value.


----------



## Mitica100

gusto said:


> Hello Everyone,
> Does anyone know what type of camera this is, it doesn't say it anywhere on the camera. I just know it's folding and it's made in germany..
> 
> Thanks Gus



Hi Gus,

A few more pictures would help, as in camera opened (unfolded), close up of the lens, back of the camera open and so on. I'll look forward to seeing some before I'll research it.

A preliminary research presented me with a few choices. First, the fact that 'Made in Germany' is attached to the camera made me think it's an American folder which actually was made in Germany, such as Ansco. Then I checked out other manufacturers and I came up with Foth Rollfilm (approx. 1933), Glunz Folding Rollfilm (around same year) or Ica Trona (doubtful on this one since they had double extension beds, unaware of any variations).

Once you take some pics which will show the lens maker, model and possibly serial number as well as showing the camera open from sides and with the back open, then I'll have a better idea.

D


----------



## Mitica100

This is the Foth Rollfilm:


----------



## oldmacman

Mitica100 said:


> This is the Foth Rollfilm:



I think there are too many detail differences for this camera to be a candidate match.


----------



## Mitica100

oldmacman said:


> Mitica100 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is the Foth Rollfilm:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think there are too many detail differences for this camera to be a candidate match.
Click to expand...


Don't always go by what you see, there are indeed differences between Gus' camera and this one. I presented the above as a possibility and there are many variations made in post production, as is the case with a lot of camera manufacturers during the last century.

Meanwhile let us know if you have any idea of which German manufacturer produced Gus' camera.

Thanks.


----------



## oldmacman

Mitica100 said:


> Don't always go by what you see,


Ok, don't always go by what you see, but the only thing similar between the two is the foot. Maybe that indicates it is from the same manufacturer and the differences indicate a model from another year.







Mitica100 said:


> Meanwhile let us know if you have any idea of which German manufacturer produced Gus' camera.
> 
> Thanks.


How about AGFA, Compur, Ica, Ansco (merged with AGFA in the 1920s). They released folding cameras in that era. I think the closest matches are from Wirgin, though. They made several folding cameras, and there are some really close looking models.

@OP - The technology department at Eastman house will identify the camera for you, if they can. You can find their web site here.


----------



## Mitica100

I did mention in my first post about the possibility of being an American camera such as ANSCO due to the 'Made in Germany' sticker. Most, if not all German cameras have the 'Made in Germany' stamped into the leatherette (covering) or onto their bodies.



> A preliminary research presented me with a few choices. First, the fact that 'Made in Germany' is attached to the camera made me think it's an American folder which actually was made in Germany, such as Ansco.



You're right about ANSCO though, they merged with AGFA exactly in 1928, later dropped the name AGFA and took the GAF name.

When I posted the "This is the Foth Rollfilm" reply I did not imply that it's a correct match, however. I don't need to see all the lines drawn in PS to show the differences, I can see these pretty freely, despite my advanced age. It was merely to suggest that there could be variations in that maker's scheme which could possibly identify it. There were so many variations made in those times!

OK, it's a starting point. *ICA* is not in the running. They used exclusively Compur and Automat shutters. *Compur* is only a shutter maker, not in the running, especially if there was a Pronto shutter installed on this camera. *ANSCO*, could be. Will research more. *AGFA*, same as above, will research more. *WIRGIN*, nah, I still have to see a Wirgin that comes even close to the OP's camera. If you have a model that you can show us (picture) please post. I'm always willing to learn...

Meanwhile research continues.


----------



## Mitica100

Upon magnification of the lens,  I was able to see it was a Rodenstock, serial number 441863 (I think). According to the Rodenstock serial number chart, this lens was produced in 1930-31. Therefore the year of the camera manufacturing should be around that, 1930-1932. Also, the foot of the camera must have been painted black initially.

OP---> Can you let us know the focal length of the Rodenstock?


----------



## Mitica100

Something that caught my eye...  Welta Perle, in a simpler and cheaper clothing (all black):






It could be a cheaper variation on that.


----------



## gusto

Hello Everyone,
   Thanks for all your help with this, sorry for the delay I was out of the office all day and couldn't post these, he are some more photos, I tried doing some more research but came up empty this evening....  Thanks again I really appreciate this  Gus


----------



## Mitica100

Hi Gus,

Yeah, it's a Welta Perle made for export. They were known to export their cameras and be rebadged, such as the Peerflekta (imported by Peerless company). However, your camera is a popular camera, not a collectible in the true sense of the word but more like a memento of years past, a nostalgic one. Let's just say you're not going to get rich on selling it. Keep it on a shelf, it's always a good conversation piece.

Best,

D


----------



## Proteus617

Any idea what film that camera takes?  Judging from the film gate, it looks like 6x9, but the center widow would queue up on the 6x6 markings of the rollfilm backing paper (assuming that it is 120).  Also, the center shaft of the takeup spool looks thin, more like a 620 spool than a 120 spool.  I didn't think the Germans went in for that 620 nonsense.


----------



## Mitica100

AFAIK the Perle was made for three different size paper backed films: *120* (4.5x6, 6x6, 9x6), *129* (8x5) and *116* (11x6.5). By simply measuring the size of the negative (in centimeters) you will know what variation you have.


----------

