# Thoughts on the Canon 60D? Pro body or not?



## AmberAtLoveAndInk (Dec 16, 2013)

I see many different opinions of everyone's gear, and of course the never ending battle of the Nikonians & Canonians. What is your thought on the Canon 60D? I have been selling my "skills" as a photographer since March and use only a 60D, I personally bought it with 3 things in mind:

More bang for the buck- I'm on a budget, like a stay-at-home-mom budget.

Video quality- again, stay-at-home, so I want to be able to get my baby boy's "first's" on good quality video without compensating image quality.

Rotating screen- I am vertically challenged (like 5' even on a good day) and looking at the 7D vs. 60D I decided to spend a little less and use that rotating LCD to my advantage when stuck with an odd angle I can't shoot by looking through the viewer. 

Many people think the 60D is strictly a hobby body and won't deliver the goods people want to purchase. Seasoned photographers, your thoughts on this? Obviously if your skills are exceptional you can use just about anything to take a great photo, but is the body your starting point for success? Before the bashing war begins, please note I am not advertising myself as the perfect photographer, I've been in the "bizz" for not even a year yet, I have a lot of learning to do (which is why I joined the forum!) but I think my work has improved vastly since my first "photo shoot."

Thanks for your feedback in advance!

Love & Ink Photography

http://facebook.com/loveandinkphotography


----------



## jaomul (Dec 16, 2013)

No the 60d is not a pro body. A pro body is normally weather sealed, built like a brick and will take years of abuse. Can the 60d take pro grade photographs, in the right hands , certainly yes


----------



## runnah (Dec 16, 2013)

jaomul said:


> No the 60d is not a pro body. A pro body is normally weather sealed, built like a brick and will take years of abuse. Can the 60d take pro grade photographs, in the right hands , certainly yes



Agreed. But the lines these days are pretty blurry as to what makes up a "pro body". 

To the OP: why does it matter?


----------



## robbins.photo (Dec 16, 2013)

AmberAtLoveAndInk said:


> I see many different opinions of everyone's gear, and of course the never ending battle of the Nikonians & Canonians. What is your thought on the Canon 60D? I have been selling my "skills" as a photographer since March and use only a 60D, I personally bought it with 3 things in mind:
> 
> More bang for the buck- I'm on a budget, like a stay-at-home-mom budget.
> 
> ...



Well if you want an unbiased opinion here, Nikon, Canon, 60 of this, 7 of that.. none of it makes a hill of beans difference.  Know what makes a pro photographer?  Someone who can sell photographs.


----------



## manicmike (Dec 16, 2013)

jaomul said:


> No the 60d is not a pro body. A pro body is normally weather sealed, built like a brick and will take years of abuse. Can the 60d take pro grade photographs, in the right hands , certainly yes



This.

I hate the term pro body. If you've got the skill you can make a great photo with just about any camera. The difference is in the features that a pro body has.


----------



## Derrel (Dec 16, 2013)

No, it's not as pro body, but it's a fantastic value. Majeed B. uses one, and I've shot with him more than a dozen times over the last 18 months or so, mostly on landscape stuff at the Oregon coast, or the Columbia Gorge national scenic area, and have seen the camera "in action" and have seen his results. The Canon 60D is a pretty capable APS-C d-slr body. It has some nice features, like the exposure simulation in live view, a good virtual horizon leveling system, and so on. As long as the ISO level is "normal", like below 800, the images seem to be pretty good. At baseline ISO, the images are excellent, as long as the lens in use is solid. I personally have recommended the 60D to people on TPF who happen to be looking for the best bang-for-buck d-slr body in recent months. Now that the 70D has taken over the top slot in that "category", the deals on the 60D are really value-heavy.


----------



## jsecordphoto (Dec 16, 2013)

I have a 60D and like it, but its certainly not a "pro" body.For most of the stuff I do it works great, but at high isos in low light I'm not happy with it at all. I'm planning up upgrading to a 6D soon for doing landscape astrophotos but I'll be holding onto my 60d as a 2nd body


----------



## KmH (Dec 16, 2013)

The way to tell if a Canon camera body is a professional grade or prosumer grade camera body is you cannot mount Canon EF-S lenses on it.

So currently, Canon offers 2 prosumer grade cameras - the 5D MK III and the 6D.
Canon's only professional grade DSLR is the 1D X.


----------



## AmberAtLoveAndInk (Dec 16, 2013)

> To the OP: why does it matter?



Just stimulating shop talk. I personally believe that skill comes from the person, not the camera, but I wanted some insight from seasoned pros about what makes a "pro" body because I am considering upgrading my gear sooner rather than later. 



> The way to tell if a Canon camera body is a professional grade camera body is you cannot mount Canon EF-S lenses on it.



The 60D can mount EF-S lenses.




> No, it's not as pro body, but it's a fantastic value. Majeed B. uses one, and I've shot with him more than a dozen times over the last 18 months or so, mostly on landscape stuff at the Oregon coast, or the Columbia Gorge national scenic area, and have seen the camera "in action" and have seen his results. The Canon 60D is a pretty capable APS-C d-slr body. It has some nice features, like the exposure simulation in live view, a good virtual horizon leveling system, and so on. As long as the ISO level is "normal", like below 800, the images seem to be pretty good. At baseline ISO, the images are excellent, as long as the lens in use is solid. I personally have recommended the 60D to people on TPF who happen to be looking for the best bang-for-buck d-slr body in recent months. Now that the 70D has taken over the top slot in that "category", the deals on the 60D are really value-heavy.



I agree, the bang for buck factor is wild!! Question, why is the 60D not considered "pro" or even "semi-pro" if Canon lists in it the "pro" category and the camera CAN deliver excellent work? While sorting through this forum I see so many labels on gear but not any on the "photographers" themselves?


----------



## KmH (Dec 16, 2013)

For me, a pro body includes a built-in vertical grip.

The difference between prosumer and entry-level is about camera features and functions.

When I was still shooting as a studio business, I used a prosumer crop sensor body with a screw-on vertical grip (Nikon D300/MB-D10), and a pro grade full frame body (Nikon D3).
Both cameras had the same controls layout (including the vertical grips), making switching between bodies seamless.
I had 2 of each so I had a back up for each.


----------



## table1349 (Dec 16, 2013)

[h=2]Thoughts on the Canon 60D? Pro body or not?[/h]
Yes, no, maybe, who cares.  If you are hung up on whether your gear is "Pro" or not, then it makes me doubt your "Pro" ability.  A real "Pro" can get the job done with what ever they have available.  It's not the body, its the photographer that is or is not a "Pro."  Back in the film days, no one would consider an Kodak Instamatic a pro body, but Annie Leibovitz did an entire series of photographs with just that.  I don't think to many people would doubt Annie's credentials.  She was not the only one that did such things.  

What a "Pro" looks for in a body is convenience, reliability and quality.  Generally the more you pay for a body the more features/convenience you end up with.  Generally with higher cost/quality bodies you get less of the fluff that some people want that you find on lesser cost bodies and more useful tools.


----------



## runnah (Dec 16, 2013)

KmH said:


> For me, a pro body includes a built-in vertical grip.  The difference between prosumer and entry-level is about camera features and functions.  When I was still shooting as a studio business, I used a prosumer crop sensor body with a screw-on vertical grip (Nikon D300/MB-D10), and a pro grade full frame body (Nikon D3). Both cameras had the same controls layout (including the vertical grips), making switching between bodies seamless. I had 2 of each so I had a back up for each.



I really don't think that the vertical grip is a defining characteristic these days. Back when it used to hold the motor drive it's was certainly the case. Frankly I think a $3,000 body is well outside the average consumer budget and with most dslr sharing 90% of the same features the line gets even blurrier.


----------



## Derrel (Dec 16, 2013)

I looked at your Love & Ink site a few minutes ago, and I think what your 60D needs is a pro lens or two. I looked at your senior photo gallery, and thought that quite a few of the shots had far too distracting a background in them, sort of the hallmark of a slow, consumer-speed zoom lens look. I honestly thought that on maybe half of the Love & Ink seniors, if you had made the same shots with a faster lens, set fairly wide-open, that the photos would have looked better. Whatever lens you're using has rather unpleasant bokeh, AND is rendering the backgrounds with far too much depth of field. The high school senior shots would benefit from a creamier, moire out of focus rendering, in most cases.

Without getting too technical about it, one of the biggest issues with a 1.6x camera is that at the working distances in normal environmental portraiture, is that the small sensor size, combined with the short focal length lenses used to get half- to full-body poses, puts the focusing distance into the zone where it is close to hyperfocal focus distance. On CLOSE-IN shots, 1.6x is okay, and it's possible to get some subject/background separation. But on longer-distance shots, with the slower aperture lenses, when you're stuck at f/5.6 at 10,12 feet, that background is GOING TO BE very recognizable. And that is the main issue with the 1.6x sensor cameras.


----------



## Lumens (Dec 17, 2013)

I'm not sure I go along with Pro/Non-Pro equipment.  I was with a professional photographer a few weekends ago using an old XSi with a very out-dated third party lens and as much as I hate to admit it his photos came out much better than mine even though I was using newer and much better equipment.  It's not the equipment that is "Professional", it's the photographer.


----------



## weepete (Dec 17, 2013)

Simple answer : no.

Why?: canon says so. They have 3 ranges of DSLRs, begginner, enthusiast and pro. The 1D and 5D sit in their pro range, the 60D, 70D, 7D and 6D sit in their enthusiast range with their other cameras in the beginner range.


----------



## AmberAtLoveAndInk (Dec 18, 2013)

> I looked at your Love & Ink site a few minutes ago, and I think what your 60D needs is a pro lens or two. I looked at your senior photo gallery, and thought that quite a few of the shots had far too distracting a background in them, sort of the hallmark of a slow, consumer-speed zoom lens look. I honestly thought that on maybe half of the Love & Ink seniors, if you had made the same shots with a faster lens, set fairly wide-open, that the photos would have looked better. Whatever lens you're using has rather unpleasant bokeh, AND is rendering the backgrounds with far too much depth of field. The high school senior shots would benefit from a creamier, moire out of focus rendering, in most cases.



Yes, for now I'm only using canon stock lenses. I bought a lens kit with macros and wide angle adapters afterwards to get more use out of my generic lenses but it turns out they will not fit on any of them. Since I do not have the funds to buy the lens I want, I'm buying an adapter to fit the third party (Zeiss) extensions to my stock lenses to see how that turns out.


----------



## AmberAtLoveAndInk (Dec 18, 2013)

Thanks for all the feedback from everyone on this post! I think I have the general idea as to everyone's opinions.. To those of you with negativity please note this is a forum (aka a place where people come together to discuss, create new ideas, and learn!) so if you are not interested in the topic of the post or think it is a "silly" post, remember, all you have to do is click on to another posting that does spark your genuine interest. I joined the forum to learn and grow productively, if I wanted to defend anything personal about me, I would've just trolled facebook. Good day.


----------



## bratkinson (Dec 18, 2013)

Amber...

I almost choked on my coffee when I read 2 posts above where you indicated you had purchased macro and wide adapters. If the total cost for the same is less than about $50, they're better off in the trash. When I first upgraded to a DSLR, I, too, bought some cheap screw-on 'adapters' - 1 tele and 1 macro and after testing the first one, threw them both in the trash. Lesson learned the hard way...or was it the not-very-expensive way vs my normal 'expensive' lessons.

As far as whether or not the 60D a pro camera, not by most peoples definitions. As others have stated, it's not built like a tank (some kind of plastic body, but mine "took a lickin' and kept on tickin'", as John Cameron Swazye used to proclaim about Timex watches). In my estimation, unless having to shoot in darker environments without a flash (eg, churches), it'll do just fine for practically everything you want to photograph. It's more about knowing the exposure triangle, it's various tradeoffs, and the practical limits of your camera and lenses.

As you indicated, you're using generic lenses (non-Canon?) with adapters, and/or more likely Canon EF-S lenses that work on Rebel, xxD and 7D bodies. While they generally produce good images, at the extremes of aperture sizes, image quality suffers a bit. Put a cheap 'protection' (clear or UV) filter in front of them, and image quality noticably takes a hit. So, before you think your 60D can't cut it, upgrade to some 'faster' glass...f-stops numerically equal to or lower than f2.8, and dump the protection filters, if you use them. Lens hoods take a lot more bumps and hits than a glass filter will and limit lens flare issues.

As far as is the 60D a 'pro' body, at least one wedding photographer pro on this web site is using a Rebel with non-pro glass. As stated many times by many people on this site, it's the photographer, not the camera.

For me, the 60D was a great all-around camera. Coupled with good glass (Canon Ls), I got some very good shots. But as I do most of my shooting at church events without flash, the 60D didn't have fast enough ISO speeds without too much noise that I could keep the shutter speeds fast enough to stop action. So in darker settings, because of slow shutter speeds, my keeper rate was about 1 in 25, where the subject really did 'freeze' for the 1/20th of a second or so. So I bit the bullet and bought a 5D mark iii. Well worth the price, but noticably larger and heavier than the 60D. I knew I was headed that way, so I replaced my EF-S lenses with Ls that would fit all Canon cameras in a year preceeding my upgrade. 

Perhaps my biggest 'loss' going to the 5Diii is no more swivel screen. That worked great for shots holding the camera above my head or at or near the floor. I did several floor level and above the head shots just a week ago. My keeper rate was dismal as I had to guess where to aim the 5Diii.


----------



## Steve5D (Dec 18, 2013)

I know people who own 1DS MK-Whatevers that can't give their stuff away.

There's a guy at the Rolex 24 every year who rakes in _piles _of money selling prints shot with a Digital Rebel. I know of no one who would consider that a "pro" body, but it's being used in a very "pro" manner. Isn't that what matters?

A fair portion of my own income is earned with a 40D. During the last gig I had, which was a week long, the 5D never even came out of the bag.

Now, Canon may market a particular body to a particular segment of their customer base, but that doesn't mean that's how it'll be used. I used to sell very high end, "professional"  guitars to people who could barely play a note, just because they insisted on having what they perceived to be the "best". I also know people who earn handsome livings with sub-$500.00 guitars.

The determining factor is how it's used, not what it's marketed as. Believing anything else is buying into hype...


----------



## Aakajx (Dec 22, 2013)

Amber, I'm no professional nor have do I know a lot about photography yet. But if you photography sessions are a reusable price, looking at your pictures I think people would be pretty happy. Your a lot better then a lot of people in my area that are charging big $$ for a session..  Keep up the good work and put a small amount away to save up for later on for better lenses or a new camera for the future.


----------



## TCampbell (Dec 23, 2013)

Hi Amber - as you've gathered, it's a mid-range body.  It has some of the features you start to find in pro-bodies and it's control layout is more similar to a pro body.  It's a VERY nice camera.  

Also as you've gathered... a good camera does not equate to a good photographer.  If the camera is adequate for the task at hand, then it's capable of amazing work -- it just needs to be in the hands of someone who has the skills and knowledge to make that happen.  I could buy a Stradivarius violin, but as I do not have _any_ skills playing a violin, it would still sound like someone is torturing cats.

I hate to say it's "not the camera" because if the camera is NOT up to the task, even a skilled photographer is going to struggle to get acceptable images out of it.  If I am in control of "everything" (subject, location, lighting, the works) then just about any camera will do.  But if I have to make due with the situation thrust upon me, then there's only so much I or the camera can do about it -- and at that point I want a camera that's up to the task.  

If I have to take action sports photography but in a poorly lit location and all I have is a camera with lousy ISO performance and a lens with a high-focal ratio and very slow focusing motor... it's not going to go very well for me as I capture blurry noisy images that are also out of focus.  That's what I mean by "up to the task" (and note that two of those issues are really lens issues and not body issues.)

Bratkinson made an important comment about those lens adapters.  Typically you want a lens that can natively offer you the focal lengths and angles of view that you need and NOT use screw-on adapters.  The adapters will likely diminish quality and be a disappointment.  If you don't have the funds to buy the stuff you need, but then spend whatever funds you have to buy something that you'll probably end up having to replace... well now you have less money to buy what you need because you just allocated to something that isn't going to work out very well.  Best to not buy anything and save until you can get what you actually need.  BTW... don't forget there are lots of places that will rent you gear.


----------



## underemployed (Dec 28, 2013)

I use a 40D with 24-70 and 70-200 2.8L lenses and sell tons of photographs.  Of course, it's not my full-time job....  .


----------



## trojancast (Dec 30, 2013)

Yes, 40d's and 60d's make great photographs.  I own both and can attest to same.  However, I feel very strongly that, for professional work, a full frame sensor is important, along with high quality lenses.  If you are going to ask your client to pay good money for your work, give them top quality results, not good enough results.  'nuff said!

Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner


----------



## LShooter (Dec 31, 2013)

No, it is not.


----------



## EOSfotografie (Jan 1, 2014)

trojancast said:


> Yes, 40d's and 60d's make great photographs.  I own both and can attest to same.  However, I feel very strongly that, for professional work, a full frame sensor is important, along with high quality lenses.  If you are going to ask your client to pay good money for your work, give them top quality results, not good enough results.  'nuff said!
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner



Ow you need a full Frame to deliver. And why is that. This need more explanation ;-) 

I shoot with FF and crop. The full frame is a 5D3 and the crop a Fujifilm X Pro1. And the clients did not see the difference. Most of the time they did choose the photos of the X Pro1. It is not the gear that makes the photo, but the person that pushes the button. Gear can make it easier to deliver ;-)


----------



## Steve5D (Jan 2, 2014)

trojancast said:


> Yes, 40d's and 60d's make great photographs.



How many threads do we see here where people complain about others giving credit for great photos to the camera and not the photographer?



> I own both and can attest to same.  However, I feel very strongly that, for professional work, a full frame sensor is important, along with high quality lenses.  If you are going to ask your client to pay good money for your work, give them top quality results, not good enough results.  'nuff said!



Who's the arbiter of "top quality results"?

The person signing the check, that's who. If someone looks at a photo that I took, and that I believe to be less than my best effort, and they want to buy it from me because they believe it's a "top quality" shot, guess what? It's a "top quality" shot.

Period.

I make my living as a photographer. I shoot with both full frame and crop. The full frame has earned me a fraction of what the crop has. Saying that only a full frame isn't capable of "top quality" is utter nonsense.

Give me a Canon G10 and I'll run circles around a hack who's shooting with a 1DS MKIV...


----------



## Smokeyr67 (Jan 2, 2014)

Steve5D said:


> trojancast said:
> 
> 
> > Give me a Canon G10 and I'll run circles around a hack who's shooting with a 1DS MKIV...
> ...


----------



## luckyshot1 (Apr 18, 2014)

Although any camera can produce amazing images in the hands of a good photographer, the 60D is not a "pro body".   The 1D series produced by Canon is what Canon considers a pro body.   The 7D was marketed at the APC body that was "close" to the quality of the 1D's.    I shoot a MK IV everyday, in every type if weather and conditions.   The 60D is an amazing body, but consider good  photographers still produce amazing photos with a 20D.   Enjoy your camera!!

I read the post about the G series camera....... I totally agree, the G series is Canons best kept secret.


----------



## shaylou (Apr 23, 2014)

jaomul said:


> No the 60d is not a pro body. A pro body is normally weather sealed, built like a brick and will take years of abuse. Can the 60d take pro grade photographs, in the right hands , certainly yes



What he said plus I do not think that there is a crop sensor camera that is considered a pro body. At least there is not one made by canon.


----------

