# Is an Art Degree/Photography degree worth it?



## sactown024 (Nov 16, 2012)

Not sure if this is a sensative subject but I was wondering everyones thoughts on this. There are so many online seminars, normal seminars, books, forums, online articles, blogs etc... now I was wondering if a degree $$$$$$ is worth it? Is there a lot of firms out there looking to hire art grads or can they care less if you have a degree and go stricly off your portfolio? 

Do you learn a lot more if you earn your degree rather than taking seminars and reading books?


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## PhotoWhoa (Nov 16, 2012)

To make a long story short. No, not worth it. This is coming from a guy with an art degree and who has tons of friends/colleagues who've also gotten their degree.


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## cannpope (Nov 16, 2012)

Most pro photographers out there probably don't have a degree in photography.


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## Mully (Nov 16, 2012)

Not unless you want to teach.


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## Designer (Nov 16, 2012)

I'm not aware of anyone who is making a good living because of a fine arts degree.  Usually the fine arts degree is superfluous in the art world.  On the other hand; if you have the desire to pursue any of the fine arts, a degree may help you realize your potential.  I hope that doesn't sound self-refuting.  Most artists enter the field for the love of art.  Many highly successful artists have that certain way of looking at things that probably cannot be taught in a classroom.  By "success" I was not inferring the ability to make money.

Furthermore; a business degree or any portion of business studies will help you not only earn a living, but retain much of it as well.


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## sactown024 (Nov 16, 2012)

Yeah my wife has her Masters degree in business


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## skieur (Nov 16, 2012)

Companies and organizations are often looking for a degree but not necessarily a photographic degree, even if the job involves photography.  A degree often indicates a certain level of literacy..as in being able to speak and write coherently with correct grammar and spelling.  What starts off as a photography position can branch out into writing budget proposals to justify the purchase of new equipment, scripts for a digital slide show, speaking to a group of executives, or in my case even speaking on television.  If you narrow your field too much in a firm or company, you are also narrowing your prospects for promotion and higher salary.

skieur


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## JSER (Nov 16, 2012)

Never took an exam in my life and have been a photographer since I was 14, now 50.


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## Majeed Badizadegan (Nov 16, 2012)

sactown024 said:


> Not sure if this is a sensative subject but I was wondering everyones thoughts on this. There are so many online seminars, normal seminars, books, forums, online articles, blogs etc... now I was wondering if a degree $$$$$$ is worth it? Is there a lot of firms out there looking to hire art grads or can they care less if you have a degree and go stricly off your portfolio?
> 
> Do you learn a lot more if you earn your degree rather than taking seminars and reading books?



My personal opinion, it's a waste of resources. 

By paying your tuition for art school, how much debt are you accumulating? How much equipment could you buy with the funds that are going to the education? What are you gaining that you couldn't gain on your own? 

There is more than one way to learn. There are lots of great books out there to learn from, you could read. There are infinite scraps to can glean on the Internet, you can learn here. There are free webinars, photo walks, you could get involved with those. 

On the other hand, some people enjoy the structure of a classroom and learn better from a set curriculum. 

I personally see time and resources better spent on self-education.


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## MLeeK (Nov 16, 2012)

Are you looking at working for someone else or as a professional freelance? 
Professional Freelance: Get a degree in business and marketing. That doesn't mean you don't need the photography education-you most definitely do. It just doesn't matter so much HOW you get that education
Photography is easy. Business is HARD.

Hollywood: Get a photography degree AND one in business and marketing


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## skieur (Nov 20, 2012)

JSER said:


> Never took an exam in my life and have been a photographer since I was 14, now 50.



The big difference however is that you are NOT working in a company or organization in a photography or media position. Two different methods and approaches to working in the area of photography.  It depends which you prefer.

Running your own business means great flexibility and making your own rules but includes all the risks associated such as liability, insurance, marketing, competition, etc.  Working for a company or organization means a steady salary, a broad range of work, access to potential customers for freelance work after hours or on weekends, budget for buying photo equipment, and creating your own role/job since your boss does not necessarily understand what you do.

skieur


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## Solarflare (Nov 21, 2012)

Art is about creativity and creativity can ultimately not be taught, at least not in the way knowledge can be taught.


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## amolitor (Nov 21, 2012)

What do you mean by worth it? It's probably not going to translate back in to a job or money, but you'd learn a lot of interesting things. Is this knowledge you want? Then it might be worth it.


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## texkam (Nov 21, 2012)

> creativity can ultimately not be taught, at least not in the way knowledge can be taught.


True, but it can be unleashed. Pursuing a degree is one way to do this.


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## rexbobcat (Nov 21, 2012)

Rotanimod said:


> sactown024 said:
> 
> 
> > Not sure if this is a sensative subject but I was wondering everyones thoughts on this. There are so many online seminars, normal seminars, books, forums, online articles, blogs etc... now I was wondering if a degree $$$$$$ is worth it? Is there a lot of firms out there looking to hire art grads or can they care less if you have a degree and go stricly off your portfolio?
> ...



What if whoever is going to college is going on scholarships....

That's mainly the reason why I'm going. Coming from a small community and getting scholarships from many of the local businesses, I would feel like such a horrible person if I was like "JK not going to college."


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## runnah (Nov 21, 2012)

Yes and no. I took many classes and ended up with a communications degree with a studio art minor.

My opinion is that you can never know too much. In today's world it's good to have skills in all aspects of media. I currently could get a job in graphic design, photography, videography, video production, web design and the offset printing world. I've had many jobs where one skill set is utilized more than others but so far every jobs I've had has called upon all my skills.

Yes you could say that with such a vast skill set its hard to be really good at just one aspect but very few have jobs that is just one thing.

I can count the number of students who I've had to turn away because they ONLY know one graphics program or ONLY know how to run a video camera.

So in summary, your brain is a bottomless pit so you can put as much knowledge in there as you want.

Classes I would take, color theory, basic composition, studio lighting, graphics programs, underwater basket weaving.


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## unpopular (Nov 21, 2012)

If you're getting an art degree for the money, you're doing it wrong.


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## runnah (Nov 21, 2012)

unpopular said:


> If you're getting an art degree for the money, you're doing it wrong.



Art class 101 is learning how to say "Would like a Grande or a Vente?"


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## skieur (Nov 23, 2012)

runnah said:


> unpopular said:
> 
> 
> > If you're getting an art degree for the money, you're doing it wrong.
> ...



Since, obviously I speak French, I like your sophisticated humour. :thumbup: Any degree is worth the money, if you make the effort to take advantage of it?
If you are working for a company or organization with a salary there are two basic categories:

1. A photographic technician who basically does photography on assignment. (limited community college qualifications and/or experience at previous photographic positions))
2. A photographic/video/media department administrator (university degree, experience + technical certificate or second degree)

The big difference between the two is remuneration, flexibility, budget, and the creative possiblities of developing your own media productions: writing, directing, editing, and deciding which work you wish to do, and wish you assign to photographic or video technicians.

So, a degree matters less if you wish to be a photographic technician in a company or organization but if you get a degree it makes sense to go after an administrative position in photography/video/media.

skieur


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## Iron Flatline (Nov 30, 2012)

If you're young, you don't yet have a degree and would like to study, you may as well study photography. But none of the photo school graduates I know have found work or credibility based on their education; it's based on the strength of their portfolio, and their ability to hustle for work (networking, cold-calling, etc.)  If you want to pursue a career as photo artist, then having attended one of the better art schools DOES matter. It puts you into a style, language, and network that is more insular and specialized.


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## John27 (Nov 30, 2012)

My primary care physician got his Bachelors in business, with a minor in chemistry (so that he had the prerequisites for med school).  Really a genius move.  He never had any intention of working 90 hours a week in a hospital, he always wanted to be a private practice family doctor.  So he got his degree in business before his medical degree, which gave him some of the tools to run a successful business.

Maybe you should look at it through the same lens (no pun intended) as him?  Get your education in business, management, marketing, or any mix of those, and then take additional education through individual classes in seminars in your craft.  I am NOT a professional photographer, so don't take my advice as such.  But I was always struck by what my Doctor did as something that is just, really, really smart.  I think anyone who goes into business for themselves should really consider the same!  Lots of doctors offices close because the physician knows nothing about business, and I'm sure lots of photographers fail because of the same.  You can take the most beautiful pictures in the world, bring a tear to Ansel Adams' eye, but if you can't manage the money, find a market, sell to said market, and calculate expenses and correctly set up your taxes and such, then you won't succeed.

I don't want this to come across badly, but fine arts degrees are not marketable, money-earning degrees.  They have a place, sure, but don't expect to get a job with your fine arts degree.  When is the last time you saw a resume posted next to a painting at a gallery?

That said, most professionals have continuing education!  I'm a Pastor, each year I fill out a form for my denomination that lists what continuing education work I've done in the past year.  Since I'm still in school, it's easy!  But in the future, that'll be workshops, seminars, webinars, or classes.  The same mindset could work for you, too.  Discipline yourself to having a few continuing education units each year.  I'm supposed to have at least 30 contact hours per year, I think that's a good number to shoot for for a photographer as well.  There are always changing, and new things, and you never know what you might learn!


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## onelove (Dec 13, 2012)

How often do you see the work of successful pros and KNOW you can do better, yet they are the ones making a living while you struggle?

If you want to be in the photography business, then a business education is mandatory.  It is 95% business and 5% photography.  Without strong business skills it is impossible to really succeed.  

An art education is great but if that's all you have; you'll need someone with a real job to support you.


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## rexbobcat (Dec 13, 2012)

onelove said:
			
		

> ...you'll need someone with a real job to support you.



That is an awesome baseless judgement.

Two thumbs up.


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## nycphotography (Dec 13, 2012)

To be fair, it only becomes baseless when you extract just the part of the statement you want to argue with.  While you can argue with the conditional, you can't chop off the conditional and then argue with the consequent.  At least not legitimately.

If you are lucky enough to be on scholarship to an art program... do the best art you can do... but ALSO see how many business, finance, psychology, science, technology, etc classes they will let you audit w/o credit.  Make the most of that opportunity as well.


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## ceeboy14 (Dec 13, 2012)

I know a number of people who have been quite successful with degrees in photography or fine art. A degree in anything is worthless if you don't get with the right organization. I know far more mechanical and electrical engineers working in restaurants than I do fine art majors. 

The obverse side of the coin is can you make a living as a photographer without a degree and the answer is of course you can..depending on your lifestyle. If you want to drive a Mercedes, you should probably get a degree in accounting. There are always exceptions to every rule but I've found that it is the person who gets ahead, not the degree. I hold several degrees (undergrad and grad) in Studio Art, Communications, Filmmaking, Journalism (double major) and I have parlayed a little of each into a pretty decent living and I've never been unemployed. I don't drive a Mercedes, but at one time I did (and I was a photographer), but I probably have as much wrapped up in my Mini as one would have in a Mercedes.  My suggestion is to do what makes you happy. In the end, that's really all that matters. Personally, i loved being an art student; I even liked working in the field.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Dec 13, 2012)

onelove said:


> An art education is great but if that's all you have; you'll need someone with a real job to support you.









Oh, and I'M the sugar daddy.


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## PixelRabbit (Dec 13, 2012)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> onelove said:
> 
> 
> > An art education is great but if that's all you have; you'll need someone with a real job to support you.
> ...


**makes best Joey Tribbiani voice**
How you doin'?


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## Bitter Jeweler (Dec 13, 2012)

How *YOU* doin'?


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## PixelRabbit (Dec 13, 2012)




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## cgipson1 (Jan 24, 2013)

spam reported


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## SJphoto (Feb 7, 2013)

I agree with the majority. Creativity is a talent, and that can't be taught. Only nurtured.


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## R3d (Feb 19, 2013)

I'm currently finishing my Bachelor's degree in psychology, with a minor in english.  I discovered my passion for photography two years ago, and it's taken me so far that I've been accepted into Master of Arts programs in photojournalism.  I'm well aware that it may not lead to a giant paycheck, but it's what I want to do.  Follow your passions.  If you feel school is the next step in your photographic journey, then go.  If not, then perhaps you will have other opportunities to pursue your interests.  I can't tell you how excited I am to continue my education, and hone my skills in what sounds like a wonderful program. Depending on where you go, some schools will have fantastic support and workforce networking opportunities after you graduate. Corcoran, for example, has exciting opportunities through faculty and coursework.

Good luck with a decision!


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## MPerni (Feb 20, 2013)

I think isn´t necesary to have a degree... In Art/Photography or similar stuff, they will ask you for a portfolio of your jobs, they will see in there what you are made of, not in the title you have.
Beside that, i think it´s a good thing going to seminars, classes, etc... you learn a lot from professionals, things that you can´t get from internet. Last year i got a teacher that learn me a lot, all my photography learnings come from her, and beyond theoretical things, i get a lot of chat with her out of the university, her view of the world, she teach me like her philosophy and that opened my mind a lot.


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## imagemaker46 (Feb 20, 2013)

Like any degree from any school, it is something you can hang on a wall, unfortunately it doesn't guarantee you a job at the end.  I know several photographers that are doing very well that learned everything in school, but this was also 30 years ago when there weren't as many people looking to become professional photographers.  What they did learn was studio lighting, something that can be learned from night school.  From what I understand coming out of the photo schools in Canada, only 1% of the grads are still in photography a year after they finish school.  Not very promising.


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## skieur (Feb 22, 2013)

imagemaker46 said:


> Like any degree from any school, it is something you can hang on a wall, unfortunately it doesn't guarantee you a job at the end.  I know several photographers that are doing very well that learned everything in school, but this was also 30 years ago when there weren't as many people looking to become professional photographers.  What they did learn was studio lighting, something that can be learned from night school.  From what I understand coming out of the photo schools in Canada, only 1% of the grads are still in photography a year after they finish school.  Not very promising.



A photo school certificate/degree will get you a photographer/technician position in a company or organization where your salary will be limited by the nature of your work.

A university degree in some area that stresses literacy in oral and written skills plus a broad approach to media production and utilization will lead to a media administration position if you go after one.  You may have the power to define your own role in the organization as well as to go after a much higher salary.

A friend of mine went from photography and editing a company newsletter to a high 6 figure income as an executive troubleshooter in the same company.

skieur


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