# Aperture settings for concert low light



## Rancor (Apr 29, 2011)

I have a Canon EOS Rebel XS with a 18-55 EF-S lens.

I am trying to get a better feel for low light settings, as I want to try some concert photography. I know I can increase my ISO to 1600, and I can reduce my shutter speed, but then I get motion blur. I know most venues.bands don't like flash, so thats out. So that leaves me with my aperture setting.

Now, I tried putting my camera on Aperture priority mode, and I notice that the largest I could go (I know the lower number is the larger opening) is 3.5f, and even then I wasn't getting great low light. I also noticed that if I zoomed in, the aperture automaticalling increased to 5.6f (I think it was 5.6f).

I was planning on picking up a Canon 50mm 1.8f II, would that help. Does that fact that the name says 50mm, unlike how my current lens reads 18-55mm, mean that I can't zoom with this lense?


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## joealcantar (Apr 29, 2011)

The 50mm 1.8 will let you shoot in the darker environment a little faster (faster shutter) since it allows more light into the camera system at 1.8.  But you are going to have to move back and forth as it is a prime lens and your feet will do the zooming.  It is a cheap lens for what you get and on a DX frame camera turns into a pretty nice portrait lens (close to an 80mm). 
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On the zoom that you have now it has a minimum aperature setting for the 18mm and a minimum aperature setting for the long end 55mm, so if it is a 3.5-5.6 lens.  When you have it at 18mm it will allow you to shoot with the 3.5 aperature if you zoom in on the subject and go to 55mm it will go to the minimum 5.6 in this example.  
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Use the walls to lean on and keep in mind that you will need to be pretty steady to avoid the camera shake.  Test your ISO noise levels, see where the noise starts and know the maximum you can shoot to get decent results.  If you can remove the noise with software , great but you have to know the limitations of the gear you are using.  
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Shoot well and be careful of the drinks!!, Joe


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## Rancor (Apr 29, 2011)

Thanks J. So I was right in assuming that the 1.8 can't zoom. Got it.

Is there no way to force my aperture to stay at a certain rate?
Are there lenses where you can zoom and maintain a large aperture?


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## o hey tyler (Apr 29, 2011)

Rancor said:


> Thanks J. So I was right in assuming that the 1.8 can't zoom. Got it.
> 
> Is there no way to force my aperture to stay at a certain rate?
> Are there lenses where you can zoom and maintain a large aperture?


 
There is a 70-200mm f/2.8L that Canon makes. It's fast, and has good reach. Downside is, the new model is $~2,200. The 50mm f/1.8 will stay at f/1.8 in aperture priority because it doesn't have a max aperture range due to lack of zoom. If the venue isn't that large, I'd go with the 50mm f/1.8 just for cost/benefit. I find it surprising that most bands don't like flash, because they often have their own set of bright flashing lights going off. If you end up not getting a faster lens, I'd just leave the camera at home.


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## tirediron (Apr 29, 2011)

The 50mm 1.8 is a prime or fixed-focal length lens and cannot "zoom".  You can buy constant aperture zooms, which will maintain a given maximum aperture over their whole zoom range (F2.8 is usually the fastest/largest aperture) but these are expensive.  A 24-70mm constant 2.8 is about $1800, and a 70-200mm constant 2.8 is around $2200.  

You've only got a couple of choices:  You can either go with a fast prime such as the 50mm 1.8 and hope to get close to the stage or, you can spend a lot of money (Remember, you can also rent lenses; you may want to consider that) on either fast lenses or a new body with higher ISO capability.  Personally, I would go with the 50mm 1.8; it's the cheapest option by far and using it will force you to become creative.

Good luck!


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## enzodm (Apr 29, 2011)

Rancor said:


> Thanks J. So I was right in assuming that the 1.8 can't zoom. Got it.
> 
> 
> Are there lenses where you can zoom and maintain a large aperture?


 
yes. It is only matter of money. 
I suggest you to learn a little on cameras, lenses, exposure: this will help you in understanding limitations and how to overcome them, when possible  . Start from here and from the tutorial thread just on top on this forum.


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## Rancor (Apr 29, 2011)

Thank you all for the info. I knew lenses could get expensive, and this just proves it. I am deffinately going to pick up the 50mm f/1.8 just based on the fact that it seems like a good lense to have, and it is one of the cheapest (price wise).

So when I see some of these amazing photographs from concerts, that person either had a great spot and great timeing, or an expensive camera/lense combo. Well, I'm 6'2", 240 lbs, and can hold my own up front, so lets give option 1 a try


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## enzodm (Apr 29, 2011)

Rancor said:


> Thank you all for the info. I knew lenses could get expensive, and this just proves it. I am deffinately going to pick up the 50mm f/1.8 just based on the fact that it seems like a good lense to have, and it is one of the cheapest (price wise).
> 
> So when I see some of these amazing photographs from concerts, that person either had a great spot and great timeing, or an expensive camera/lense combo. Well, I'm 6'2", 240 lbs, and can hold my own up front, so lets give option 1 a try



I made the following pictures last week with the same camera and lens as you (with the IS version of the lens, in case you have the non stabilized one): f/3.5 1/20s (but stabilizer at least reduces my contribution to motion blur):






This one, same concert, is made with an old 55/1.4 manual focus (1/40s, perhaps around f/2). Similar to what you may obtain with the 50/1.8.





Both are at ISO1600 and the heavilly postprocessed to reduce noise and make them better. I'm not a concert shooter, is just the second or third time, so they are not ideal.


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## KmH (Apr 29, 2011)

The 50 mm f/1.8 used wide open will have a very shallow depth-of-field (DOF) making it difficult to gauge what will be in focus in the final image.

Your camera does not have a DOF Preview function.

What it boils down to is that the XS just doesn't have the low light ISO capability needed to shoot quality non-motion blurred photos of bands performing.


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## o hey tyler (Apr 29, 2011)

KmH said:


> Your camera does not have a DOF Preview function.


 
Actually, yeah it does. http://a.img-dpreview.com/reviews/Canoneos1000d/images/allroundview.jpg

(Top Right)


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## enzodm (Apr 29, 2011)

KmH said:


> The 50 mm f/1.8 used wide open will have a very shallow depth-of-field (DOF) making it difficult to gauge what will be in focus in the final image.
> 
> Your camera does not have a DOF Preview function.
> 
> What it boils down to is that the XS just doesn't have the low light ISO capability needed to shoot quality non-motion blurred photos of bands performing.



I agree on the ISO limits of XS: it is not what the camera is able to do well, although it is possible to play a little.
Regarding the rest,  the DOF preview button is indeed present, but I'm not sure it makes sense to use it with large apertures (it is aimed mainly at small apertures).


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## ghache (Apr 29, 2011)

get a 1.4 and suck up a much light as you can. I just wish someone would make a 1.4 prime with VR.


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## djacobox372 (Apr 29, 2011)

f1.8 is a HUGE improvement in low light over what you have.  It lets in 3 times as much light as f3.5, and over 4 times as much as f5.6 

That means you can shoot with triple or quadruple the shutter speeds! 

The only downside is that focus become much more critical, as the DOF is very narrow at f1.8.


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## djacobox372 (Apr 29, 2011)

KmH said:


> The 50 mm f/1.8 used wide open will have a very shallow depth-of-field (DOF) making it difficult to gauge what will be in focus in the final image.
> 
> Your camera does not have a DOF Preview function.
> 
> What it boils down to is that the XS just doesn't have the low light ISO capability needed to shoot quality non-motion blurred photos of bands performing.



The viewfinder should display the image at the largest apertures (narrowest DOF).  DOF preview is only really useful when shooting at smaller apertures in very well lit situations.


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## Rancor (Apr 29, 2011)

So, just to make sure I have this. A 50mm f/1.8 (or 1.4 if I can swing the extra $270) gets me more light and faster shutter speeds in exchange for being a prime lense and requiring more accuracy when it comes to focusing, right?


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## ghache (Apr 29, 2011)

Rancor said:


> So, just to make sure I have this. A 50mm f/1.8 (or 1.4 if I can swing the extra $270) gets me more light and faster shutter speeds in exchange for being a prime lense and requiring more accuracy when it comes to focusing, right?



A Monopod is also something to look at, lets stay you have to shoot at 1/20, it will help.


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## imagemaker46 (Apr 29, 2011)

Alot depends on the type of concert, how many lights they are using etc.  There are lots of times that you can get away with shooting at a pretty good shutter speed. Watch how the light moves around and use it, shooting most concerts requires a good understanding of light, due to the constant change.  If all else fails just play with the light and enjoy it as a learning experience.


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