# Just Got a Quote From B&H - Equipment Change Suggestions?



## kilerb (Nov 10, 2010)

Was talking to the sales guy.  He seemed very nice and knowledgeable.  One thing I noticed immediately is that he steered me away from Nikon and to Canon, citing that if I need accessories, Nikon will be WAY BACK ORDERED....  And he adamantly suggested Canon because of this.  He suggested the Rebel T2I as you can see in the quote below.

So, this is what he suggested for indoor and outdoor portraits or head shots, which is all I'll be using this for at the start.  I'd appreciate any suggestions on substituting any of this for something that might be more or less money.  Value is what I'm looking for here.  I just want to have a high quality setup for indoor and outdoor portrait shots.  Thanks a lot!  Here's the quote....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Qty Brand Item Description Price Total
SKU#/Catalog#
================================================================================
1 INTERFIT SUPER COOLITE-5 2-LT/LIGHT STANDS KIT/REG 313.95 313.95
#INSCL52K/INT117
This Item Has Free Shipping To The Continental USA.

1 CANON EOS DIGITAL REBEL T2I/REG 704.72 704.72
#CAEDRT2I/4462B001
This Item Has Free Shipping To The Continental USA.

1 CANON 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS EF-S (USM) LENS/USA 449.95 449.95
#CA17854IS/9517A002
This Item Has Free Shipping To The Continental USA.

1 SANDISK EXTREME SDHC CLASS 10 (30MB/s) 8GB/REG 65.95 65.95
#SAESD8GBC/SDX3008GA31
This Item Has Free Shipping To The Continental USA.

Manufacturer's Rebate $20.00
1 IMPACT FLOUERCENT 1 LIGHT KIT/REG 78.95 78.95
#IMFL1K/FL1K

Qty Brand Item Description Price Total
SKU#/Catalog#
CONSISTS OF:
1 IMPACT PORCELAIN SOCKET w/INLINE SWITCH(500w)/REG
#IMSP/FB250
1 IMPACT 12" REFLECTOR w/o SOCKET & CORD/REG
#IMR12/402620
1 IMPACT 8' AIR CUSHION 4-SECTION LIGHTSTAND/REG
#IMLS8A/LS8A
1 GB SPIRAL FLUORESCENT 30w 5500K E26 BASE/REG
#GBFS30/SP30955
1 IMPACT DIFFUSER SOCK f/ 13" BEAUTY DISH/REG 20.99 20.99
#IMDSBD13/9031620
1 CANON SPEEDLITE 430EX II/USA 265.00 265.00
#CA430EX2/2805B002
Price After $15.00 Instant Rebate Exp. 01/08/11
1 PEARSTONE BOUNCE DOME f/CANON 430EX / 430EX II/REG 9.50 9.50
#PEBDC430/BDC430
1 PEARSTONE 6.5' UNIV DUO TTL OFF-CAMERA CORD/REG 45.00 45.00
#PEOCDU6/OCDU6
@PLEASE NOTE: -------------------------------------------------------------------
@ Quote is valid for 30 Days, Except for Rebates & Promotions
================================================================================
Payment Type - Amount Sub-Total: 1,954.01


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## o hey tyler (Nov 10, 2010)

I'd skip the 17-85mm f/4-5.6 and get something different. I'd just go with the regular EF-S Kit lens rather than that. But I suppose it's personal preference.


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## arcooke (Nov 10, 2010)

"Nikon will be WAY BACK ORDERED"

So order somewhere else, plain and simple.  I get most of my camera gear from Amazon.. typically cheaper than B&H.  Amazon is an authorized retailer, btw.


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## Robin Usagani (Nov 10, 2010)

forget about the whole thing..   Get your self a camera (new or used), fast lenses, and a flash.  Dont worry about the other things right now.  You buy it as you go.  A lot of the things he listed, you can probably buy the china made light kit on amazon for a lot cheaper.  Plus, you dont know if that is what you want to be doing.  I personally would buy body only and get the lenses used.  You can probably get a kit lens for like $80 and longer zoom for like $180 used (EF-S 55-200mm IS) on CL.


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## white (Nov 10, 2010)

Does that package come with a PROFESSIONAL FOTOGRAPHER certificate? Because if not, you'd liek totalie be getting ripped off.


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## GeorgieGirl (Nov 10, 2010)

When it comes to cameras, its personal. Get what you want. If it means waiting a bit for it then so be it. B&H is a highly reputable store, often times with free shipping, its hard to find better pricing from any other retailer, depending on where you live it only a day or two to have it in your hands and void the sales tax. Some of the Impact products are really pretty good, I have a few. Since you are looking at a Speedlite you do not need an air cushion stand per se, but I'd take one with rather than without for future use if you want to place a strobe on, so I think its a good choice depending on the weight it can manage. I think they guy gave you a nice choice.

You need to decide what camera you want, I think thats the primary decision. The rest will fall into place. I am not a fan of used lenses anymore than used cars unless they come with guarantees. Brand new and out of whack is no issue with a reputable retailer like B&H to get you started if there is a problem, and sometimes there are anomalies.

Read the reviews, the guides, and hold them both in your hands to see how the controls and functionality feel to you. You want this to be a purchase you feel good about and have for a while.

I have a Canon, have always had them so I am used to the familiarity of them, but would not hesitate to select a Nikon if that was what my preference was. 

Good Luck!:thumbup:


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## Vinny (Nov 10, 2010)

How experienced are you?

If you're just starting out you need to learn photography without all the extra stuff getting in the way with the exception of a flash.

If you're shooting portraits you don't need a class 10 SD card -portrait shooting is usually not highly active, you take a shot, recompose, take a shot ... . I bought a PNY class 4 8Gb for $20 I have used my DSLR on 3 frames per second shooting RAW + JPEG fine and had the camera go for about 3 seconds before the buffer filled up and it stopped shooting.

For portraits I would get a prime lens in the 85mm to 105mm area. That is the traditional focal length for portrait work.

If you want a setup for portrait work my suggestion is to pick a camera, doesn't matter what brand and add 2 or 3 flash units with bounce, diffusers or umbrellas and there's a complete setup. Learn how to use lighting ratios to have a main light with a fill light (2 flash setup) and add a background light if need be (3 flash setup).


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## Tee (Nov 10, 2010)

Don't let the salesrep tell you what to get.  Get to a store and hold each camera in your hands.  Then decide.


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## Blake.Oney (Nov 10, 2010)

You definitely don't need all that stuff for portraiture. It will overwhelm you if you're not very experienced. Like stated above get a camera, at least a couple flashes, and a 50mm prime lens if your camera comes with a kit lens. The 50mm lenses from Nikon and Canon are very good portrait lenses. Get the rest of the stuff as you learn and need it.


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## Light Artisan (Nov 10, 2010)

I agree 100%, go hold various ones in your hand... not just Canon and Nikon either, try Sony, Pentax, whatever you can get your hands on. See which one feels the best and makes the most sense to you.


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## kundalini (Nov 10, 2010)

One word of advice about salespersons.......

Commision.


Another bit of advice, have knowledge beforehand.  Play opposum and catch the idiots redhanded.


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## Derrel (Nov 10, 2010)

Manufacturer sales incentive...aka "spiff"....spiffs are the way salespeople work in the retail photo/video business...the manufacturer pays the SALESMEN a "spiff" to move product that is not selling well, or that which has high profit margin. After a salesman makes a sale of a spiff item, he writes it up and submits the paperwork. Spiffs are actually more lucrative than commissions, which are payed by the retail establishment itself; spiffs are typically larger,and more-lucrative, than commissions. Cheap-to-make things like a T2i and the 17-85 plastic,slow zoom lens from Canon are cheap products that have high profit for Canon. I would not be surprised if the spiffs for the two items total $30 for any salesman that can get those products out the door.


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## henryp (Nov 11, 2010)

A couple of observations:
None of our sales associates receives commissions. We don't hold sales contests based on the number or size or value of any sale or of a sales associate's collected group of sales. We pay salaries and measure our sales associates' performance by product knowledge and customer satisfaction foremost.

None of our sales associates receives sales incentives or "spiffs." They're strictly prohibited and a sales associate who accepts any is subject to termination. The value of any "spiff" is rolled into our cost basis and helps us keep retail prices low, benefiting the customer.

None of our sales associates is given any information about how we determine our cost basis for any brand or item. We don't share with them any information about which item or brand might offer a higher profit margin to the company. It's our intention that a recommendation from a sales associate to a customer be based entirely on your conversation with the sales associate wherein you tell us your shopping parameters and priorities and we endeavor to make suggestions based on product knowledge and experience.

That said, IMO the list of items in the OP's post is not an unreasonable suggestion based on the OP's stated need: _indoor and outdoor portraits or head shots, which is all I'll be using  this for at the start ... Value is  what I'm looking for here._ I am sure there are other options which might be equally valid and I am sure if you put four photographers in a room you could easily get five opinions.


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## KmH (Nov 11, 2010)

Tee said:


> .....Get to a store and hold each camera in your hands. Then decide.


This would be about item 66 on the check list of camera features that actually matter.


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## MohaimenK (Nov 11, 2010)

now go here and compare the difference and see the prices

Central Digital 

also free shipping


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## Robin Usagani (Nov 11, 2010)

B&H is a good place to buy it from.  I am just suggesting not to go all out and  buy everything all at once.  Take it easy.


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## Derrel (Nov 11, 2010)

"Nikon will be way backordered".

"Buy what we have on hand."

"Forget what you wanted to get--we need to sell product TODAY, and what we have is this."

Now THAT is sales help!


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## kilerb (Nov 11, 2010)

Thanks for all the suggestions and observations...  I guess my big question really is this....  I don't mind spending the money, I am on a budget, but would like something that REALLY looks great.  The salesperson said that was the cheapest I'd want to go on a lens.  He said I need the flash for outdoor shots to get rid of shadows under the eye and that I shouldn't have the flash on my cam.  Also said I should have the 3 lights for the indoor shots.  I realize everyone has a different opinion, and that I should hold them in my hands first...  But what would YOU suggest as a great start package for indoor and outdoor headshots...  What do I need and not really need?

(I had my headshots done, and the girl didn't have any lighting or flashes going.  They seemed to look good, but I'm not a trained pro with an eye for these things...)  Thanks in advance...


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## GooniesNeverSayDie11 (Nov 11, 2010)

Dont ever listen to a sales person. I bet he wanted to sell you a bunch of filters too? Research on here and elsewhere online to find out what camera has the best features that will be most useful to what you intend on shooting. As for holding the camera, while this can be a good way to pick between two fairly equal cameras that you are torn between, this should NOT be a main deciding factor in buying a camera. Most cameras that may not be quite as comfortable, can easily and cheaply have a battery grip added that will bulk up the feel in your hand so its an easy remedy. However, you can't slap on a faster shutter speed, extra AF points, a full-framed sensor or better ISO performance.


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## Vinny (Nov 11, 2010)

Do you want equipment that looks great or want equipment that has the potential to take great photos?

For great looking equipment probably a Canon with one of those huge white lenses. For equipment that takes great photos - a full frame sensor DSLR and great prime lenses. Either way - throw in a flash or two!





kilerb said:


> Thanks for all the suggestions and observations... I guess my big question really is this.... I don't mind spending the money, I am on a budget, but would like something that REALLY looks great. The salesperson said that was the cheapest I'd want to go on a lens. He said I need the flash for outdoor shots to get rid of shadows under the eye and that I shouldn't have the flash on my cam. Also said I should have the 3 lights for the indoor shots. I realize everyone has a different opinion, and that I should hold them in my hands first... But what would YOU suggest as a great start package for indoor and outdoor headshots... What do I need and not really need?
> 
> (I had my headshots done, and the girl didn't have any lighting or flashes going. They seemed to look good, but I'm not a trained pro with an eye for these things...) Thanks in advance...


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## GeorgieGirl (Nov 11, 2010)

kilerb - My 2 cents today is take your time. I think you do need lights to shoot portraits, but what kinds of lights will you really want. You were given some suggestions for a possible set up kit. There are so many options and so many results that it pays to take the time to really evaluate what you will want to work with. If you are anxious to get started, that is one thing and I am an anxious person when I get really excited about something so at times it is hard to throttle back with all the juices flowing.

Focus on your camera and your lens. Start there. You want a camera you are going to enjoy growing with and the best lens you can afford, which is usually more than we are planning but its never with regret. Look for low light and tack sharp with good color. Kit lenses do a good job overall but they are more all purpose than a tack sharp portrait lens.

If you want a light, a speedlite is good since its easy to maneuver with, but you want to have good light and that does not come without modifiers even if its a diffuser made specifically for that speedlight. A stand will not go to waste for sure.

Other types of lighting are options and I don't disagree with the notion of 3 or 4 lights at the end of the day, but you don't need all of them to get started and if it were my money, and it was at one time, I took my time and built my equipment list over time.

Started with the camera and the best lens I could buy. Get to know it like the back of your hand. I don't own a speedlight, I think for my photos that a speedlight is more expensive than what I want to use it for and I waited and bought my strobes and modifiers at times at auction on ebay and built it up that way and I don't own cheap either. But none of the ancillary items were acquired before I bought three lenses over time that were 'good' lenses. A good lens will give you so much confidence that its priceless. 

Take your time, research each and every piece of equipment you wish to acquire, even including a lens rag. That's my advice. Camera and Lens(s). Start there.


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## Tee (Nov 11, 2010)

KmH said:


> Tee said:
> 
> 
> > .....Get to a store and hold each camera in your hands. Then decide.
> ...



I guess what I was trying to convey was not to buy something that was described over the phone before physically handling it.


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## kilerb (Nov 11, 2010)

GeorgieGirl said:


> kilerb - My 2 cents today is take your time. I think you do need lights to shoot portraits, but what kinds of lights will you really want. You were given some suggestions for a possible set up kit. There are so many options and so many results that it pays to take the time to really evaluate what you will want to work with. If you are anxious to get started, that is one thing and I am an anxious person when I get really excited about something so at times it is hard to throttle back with all the juices flowing.
> 
> Focus on your camera and your lens. Start there. You want a camera you are going to enjoy growing with and the best lens you can afford, which is usually more than we are planning but its never with regret. Look for low light and tack sharp with good color. Kit lenses do a good job overall but they are more all purpose than a tack sharp portrait lens.
> 
> ...



Thanks!  Which camera/lens do you have/suggest?  I keep hearing really good things about Nikon.  It seems that everyone is so opinionated, I'm surprised someone hasn't said "Go with this model and this lens for a great start with great quality and great looking photos."  I guess it's hard to do when there are so many.

To answer the other question above... I don't care what the camera looks like, I care what the photos look like.  Hahah...  Thanks!


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## GeorgieGirl (Nov 12, 2010)

Well I have a Canon Rebel XTI and have had it for quite a few years now. I have the 17-55 which was the 1st lens I bought to go with the body. From there I bought the 70-200L with IS and then I bought the Sigma 10-22. Its just n the past 6 months that I started with lighting gear. 

I plan to go to a full frame camera in the next two years and the 17-55 will not be able to convert over to use on full frame cameras however I am also not giving up the XTI, so all is not lost.

BUT, I am not adverse to a Nikon. Look at the fireworks shots from Disney that are being discussed as an Active Topic and its easy to see the quality of the sharpness of the shots and the colors that came through that lens and makes it hard to not notice that as a great example of something to seriously look at. I personally don't know anything about Nikon, but many do who can give you their insight. I'll be learning from it too. :thumbup:


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## ghache (Nov 12, 2010)

Vinny said:


> How experienced are you?
> 
> If you're just starting out you need to learn photography without all the extra stuff getting in the way with the exception of a flash.
> 
> ...


 

i got some class 10 4 gig cards for 15 bucks. 

LOL @ the nikon will be way back ordered


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## Robin Usagani (Nov 12, 2010)

ghache said:


> i got some class 10 4 gig cards for 15 bucks. i dont get the "you dont need class 10" you NEED the fastest card you can afford imo.


 
Why?  So he can burst his shot gazzilion shot in a row?  How often do you do that?  All I have is a CF card from costco and I just tested it on my 5D and i shot it 12 in a row and it was still going.  T1i isnt that fast either, I am sure the slower card will do just fine.


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## ghache (Nov 12, 2010)

The only thing i have to tell you, since you seems like you really wanna get into it and seems like you wanna dump all that money into gear, go with at least a D90 or something similar in canon. you will get all the feature you need to get you going with lightning and primes with this body. 

If you really wanna get into it and have the money. just get the stuff you need but dont listen to any sales guys. just get someone knowlegable you know to shop around with you. Dont just buy everything a sales guy told you to buy because you might be buying some stuff you dont need.

Start with a one light setup not 3. For the lens get the sharpest / fastest lens you can get for your money. Since you wanna step into portrait, I would get a 50mm 1.8 or the 85mm 1.8. its fast, sharp and its cheap and its something you will never regret buying since its among the fastest lens around

oh and i would get a nikon body. they are so much better:lmao::lmao:


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## o hey tyler (Nov 12, 2010)

ghache said:


> The only thing i have to tell you, since you seems like you really wanna get into it and seems like you wanna dump all that money into gear, go with at least a D90 or something similar in canon. you will get all the feature you need to get you going with lightning and primes with this body.
> 
> If you really wanna get into it and have the money. just get the stuff you need but dont listen to any sales guys. just get someone knowlegable you know to shop around with you. Dont just buy everything a sales guy told you to buy because you might be buying some stuff you dont need.
> 
> ...


 
Don't start a Nikon/Canon war. Unless you want to look like a ****ing idiot. 

I'd suggest the 35mm f/2 over the 50, or the 85 if they're going to have lighting and do portraits (especially if they want to do them inside). 35mm will give them a fairly large maximum aperture, and the FoV of a 50mm on a cropped frame body, which is great for indoor portrait work as well as outdoor. I originally got the 50mm 1.4 for my T1i and I quickly found out it was too tight indoors for me to get the variety of shots I wanted. So after I tried out the 35mm f/2 I was much happier. Since I recently upgraded to a 5D, I get the same FoV that I had on my t1i with the 35mm, which is great.


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## henryp (Nov 12, 2010)

Derrel said:


> Now THAT is sales help!


Depending on circumstances it sure is!

If someone says he or she has an immediate need and we know one brand is currently better about stocking retailers' warehouses IMO it's legitimate to tell the customer this is a consideration, particularly when the choices have boiled down to Nikon and Canon, for which the "which is better" debate is never ending and ultimately unanswerable.

The question, "Can I readily get accessories?" is as legit as the question (For example), "Which has better auto-focus or more accurate metering with on-camera flash?" Both deserve replies and it's the informed sales associate working without consideration for commissions or "spiffs" who's most likely to provide accurate and reliable information.



GooniesNeverSayDie11 said:


> Dont ever listen to a sales person. I bet he wanted to sell you a bunch of filters too?



Don't ever? You must have been abused badly in some store or other once. Fact is we hire pros with experience so they can draw on that experience when offering suggestions or advice and we expend considerable resources on continual product training to ensure that advice is current and informed. I certainly think a sales person's advice deserves scrutiny, but this wholesale condemnation is simply undeserved and IMO worse, it's bad advice for the OP. YMMV of course.

BTW, I've been a Nikon shooter since the mid-1970s and have no trouble at all with the Canon suggestions posted by the OP. I appreciate brand loyalty but I think we can either debate Coke vs Pepsi until the end of time or we can pick up our cameras and take some pictures.

When I eat in a restaurant I don't care what brand stove they use as long as the food's good.


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## Tulsa (Nov 12, 2010)

kilerb said:


> The salesperson said that was the cheapest I'd want to go on a lens.



Please do not spend $450 on that lens new. Find a 18-55mm used for about $80-100, use it for awhile and figure out what you need. Believe it or not, it is still my favorite lens, and other than my 50mm 1.8, I use it all the time. 
I recommend going Canon. I buy all used, but if you have the money, buy the body new, and rest used. Save some money. Remember you can easily resale everything once you are ready to upgrade or try something else. I have found, if you buy used, the value holds.


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## bigtwinky (Nov 12, 2010)

henryp said:


> When I eat in a restaurant I don't care what brand stove they use as long as the food's good.


 
I also don't allow the waitress to dictate what I will be eating.  If I want a club sandwhich, but they already have 6 orders of that, I ain't going to eat the smoked meat, ya know?


You will probably end up getting alot of that gear.  Impact lighting stuff is low end, but decent quality.  Good for beginners.  But you dont need all that now, not when you go through the learning process.

The T2i is a great camera.  Just as the 60D and 7D or the D90 and D7000.  If you want something that is GREAT, then its out of your budget (D700 or 5D2).  The thing is, you will probably end up getting the GREAT body down the road.  So don't beat yourself over which one to get now.  If you don't know any better, they will all seem the same.  What IS important is ergonomics and feel, which you can never get on the phone.  You need to be comfortable with the layout of the buttons and grip.  Granted the T2i has a different button layout than then 7D, but the general way the camera works is the same.

As for lenses, I would not get the 17-85.  Bad recommendation.  Its not a horrible lens, but if you are aiming for portraits, I'd look at a 50mm 1.4 or 1.8 to start.  I would stay away from the EF-S lenses, as these only work on crop body cameras.  If the salesman was being thorough, they would ask if you plan on upgrading to full frame cameras (which it seems like you do) in which case the 17-85 will NOT work.  Bad recommendation.  Look for EF lenses in the Canon lineup, not EF-S, if you want to later use better bodies.

For the lighting needs, getting a flash is a must.  The 430EX II does not have any ports in it.  If you are using the Canon infrared to trigger these (which works good), you are limited to line of sight.  If you want to use radio triggers (which is IMO the best way to get the flash off camera) you need a universal translator for the flash.   If you really want to learn portrait lighting, you should work in full manual.  TTL is great, but learn from the ground up.

I have the 430EX II, its a good little flash for running and gunning, but nothing more than a slave flash when used with infrared.  You either need to look at the 580EX II (more expensive) or look into third party flashes such as the Vivitar 285HV or the Lumopro LP160.  Both under $200.  Don't work in automatic with your camera, but great for manual off camera lighting.  Or get a used Nikon flash... if you are doing off camera, you can mix brands.  Might have colour balance issues though.

All that is just the same as for Nikon.

I did the mistake of first buying cheap lenses, which I had to sell to upgrade.  Should of saved to get better lenses off the bat.


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## Derrel (Nov 12, 2010)

Kilerb,
 You live in Los Angeles. I would suggest going down to Samy's Camera and buying your outfit hands-on.


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## traylorc (Nov 12, 2010)

henryp said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> > Now THAT is sales help!
> ...



I would agree that a wholesale condemnation of all salespeople is not warranted, the bottom line is that as salespeople you are financially motivated to sell the customer as much product as possible.

I was in the same position as the OP a couple of months ago.  I wanted to purchase a good camera....a camera I could grow into over the foreseeable future.  I had done my research on the d90 but wanted to look at the Cannon Rebel as well.  I knew I may also need some accessories, but to be honest I was not clear on what I really needed.  

The salesperson admitted they personally shoot Canon, but that when it comes to cameras Canon is 1.A and Nikon 1.B.  He told me regardless of which brand I picked I was going to have a good camera.  He didn't give any of that BS about Nikon being "way backordered".  Funny...every camera place I visited prior to making my purchase never mentioned anything about Nikon products being "way backordered".  But B&H, one of the largest camera retailers in the country, is having difficulties securing Nikon products.  Maybe B&H is legitimately having issues securing Nikon products, but when the salesperson discloses this to the customer the perception is they are trying to push Canon product that is sitting in his inventory.  

At the end of the day I decided to go with the d90, so I asked the salesperson what other lenses or other accessories I needed.  The salesperson simply recommended going with the d90 and the lens kit.  He encouraged me to go out and take a few pics, get use to the camera, and then come back and we can talk about additional lenses and accessories.  He also indicated that I may want to consider purchasing some used lens in the future to save some cash.  

The salesperson in my example understood the importance of earning my trust, which would lead to additional business down in the future.  The B&H salesperson that the OP encountered essentially tried to jack him/her for a $2,000 sale. That is why you are seeing forum members express some "concern" regarding the OP simply whipping out their credit card in order to help the B&H salesperson meet their monthly quota.


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## kilerb (Nov 12, 2010)

Derrel said:


> Kilerb,
> You live in Los Angeles. I would suggest going down to Samy's Camera and buying your outfit hands-on.



I was just looking at this...  Samy's Camera | Digital, Cameras, Video, Camcorders, Photography, Electronics for Professionals and Consumers

I'm reading about the lenses and the recommendations for lenses on this thread.  I so don't get it.  I understand if this is something so basic that I should research it rather than ask here.  So if there's a really easy link that could be provided, just paste it.  I'm not even sure what to search for on google to find that answer.  The sales guy said you want to go with an 85 because anything bigger or smaller would make the subject thinner or wider.  I'm pretty sure that's what he said, if that makes sense.  I figured there would be a gold standard for doing a certain type of photography.  Like if I said "Portraits" everyone would say "18-55!" or "55-200" but there's a bunch of different suggestions.  The reason I liked the B&H guy's suggestion was because he claimed the lens he picked would work great for indoors and outdoors and I wouldn't need any other lenses.  That's what I want.  I'm leaning towards the D90 per a pretty unanimous liking of the body and usage down the line.  What would be a great lens to go with it that will produce very high quality portraits indoors and out?


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## bigtwinky (Nov 12, 2010)

Not sure if its just me, but with the availability of information online (and on forums with people who are nice enough to share), I tend to simply use a store to buy something.  I dont ask salespeople for their advice as most of the time, while they are experts, they are not 100% accurate.

I prefer to be an informed consumer and know what I am getting into.


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## Derrel (Nov 12, 2010)

This entire thread is pretty sad. We've got one of America's largest photographic retailers with a big name in here trying to defend a salesman using the "Nikon's going to be way back ordered" excuse to sell what he has on-hand, right now, today. By attempting to paint this as a Canon versus Nikon issue. Simply pathetic. This is an issue of a sales associate trying to sell WHAT HE HAS ON HAND NOW. Not what the customer wanted, but what is available right now, in inventory.

Henry Posner's comment that, "BTW, I've been a Nikon shooter since the mid-1970s and have no trouble at all with the Canon suggestions posted by the OP. I appreciate brand loyalty but I think we can either debate Coke vs Pepsi until the end of time or we can pick up our cameras and take some pictures."  is in my opinion, simply PATHETIC.

Despicable, really. Disingenuous. I used to sell photo and video goods at retail. I know how this business works. I fully understand what sales people are like, and how they must function on a daily basis, as well as on an "occasional" basis. Taking a customer who comes in with a stated desire for a specific product and then shifting that customer to something entirely different...hmmmm.....wonder why that might happen....


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## GeorgieGirl (Nov 12, 2010)

This guy has his heart set on the Nikon D90. Hopefully Samy's has it in stock or perhaps Adorama has it or Calumet if B&H does not. He has that much decided without much of our help. 

What is a good lens for him to pair with the D90 for his portrait use and hopefully for other use too? That's the question now. Since most here are not a salesperson and are no way incentivized, it is a perfectly simple question that you can answer without any sticky agenda. You have experience and you know what the guy is looking for, he has made it clear. Nobody likes the kit lens here, so what exactly should he go for and why. Give the guy two options to chose from and I bet he loves you and his new set up forever.


----------



## traylorc (Nov 12, 2010)

Derrel said:


> This entire thread is pretty sad. We've got one of America's largest photographic retailers with a big name in here trying to defend a salesman using the "Nikon's going to be way back ordered" excuse to sell what he has on-hand, right now, today. By attempting to paint this as a Canon versus Nikon issue. Simply pathetic. This is an issue of a sales associate trying to sell WHAT HE HAS ON HAND NOW. Not what the customer wanted, but what is available right now, in inventory.
> 
> Henry Posner's comment that, "BTW, I've been a Nikon shooter since the mid-1970s and have no trouble at all with the Canon suggestions posted by the OP. I appreciate brand loyalty but I think we can either debate Coke vs Pepsi until the end of time or we can pick up our cameras and take some pictures."  is in my opinion, simply PATHETIC.
> 
> Despicable, really. Disingenuous. I used to sell photo and video goods at retail. I know how this business works. I fully understand what sales people are like, and how they must function on a daily basis, as well as on an "occasional" basis. Taking a customer who comes in with a stated desire for a specific product and then shifting that customer to something entirely different...hmmmm.....wonder why that might happen....



:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## kilerb (Nov 12, 2010)

GeorgieGirl said:


> This guy has his heart set on the Nikon D90. Hopefully Samy's has it in stock or perhaps Adorama has it or Calumet if B&H does not. He has that much decided without much of our help.
> 
> What is a good lens for him to pair with the D90 for his portrait use and hopefully for other use too? That's the question now. Since most here are not a salesperson and are no way incentivized, it is a perfectly simple question that you can answer without any sticky agenda. You have experience and you know what the guy is looking for, he has made it clear. Nobody likes the kit lens here, so what exactly should he go for and why. Give the guy two options to chose from and I bet he loves you and his new set up forever.



This would be great if anyone has any suggestions...  I would love the best lens for the money for what I'm doing that would go with the D90.  Wasn't trying to bash an employee or start a Nikon/Canon war!!!  Hahahah


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## bigtwinky (Nov 13, 2010)

If the OP is buying a flash and is doing head shots, why does he need a cool lite kit?  Why not just a stand, bracket and umbrella and mount his already shopping carted flash using some Cactus triggers?  Nice to go on location with, as alot of newcomers shoot outdoors

And why an Extreme card?  I use Ultra cards and they work amazing.   Why the extra expense for someone looking to start out?

This on top of the poor 17-85 recommendation.

What lens for the D90 for portraits?  One would be the 50 1.8 a good cheap start.  Other high end lenses to consider are 70-200 2.8, 24-70.  A lens is truly an investment.  I know people who have had pro line lenses for 7 years, used them with entry level cameras and now pro cameras.  They are your most solid investment.  They will cost $1400 + , but they are worth it.

For Canon, on the cheap side, look at a Tamron 28-75 f/2.8.  I bought it a few years ago at $500 instead of the equivalent Canon 24-70 f/2.8 which was $1500.  Not as fast autofocus in the dark, a bit noisy, but way lighter and great image quality.  I had to bring my first copy back though as this is the usual prob with third party lenses...quality control


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## henryp (Nov 14, 2010)

Derrel said:


> This entire thread is pretty sad. We've got one of America's largest photographic retailers with a big name in here trying to defend a salesman using the "Nikon's going to be way back ordered" excuse to sell what he has on-hand, right now, today. By attempting to paint this as a Canon versus Nikon issue. Simply pathetic. This is an issue of a sales associate trying to sell WHAT HE HAS ON HAND NOW. Not what the customer wanted, but what is available right now, in inventory.


It must be refreshing to be so smugly certain and so entirely wrong all in one short paragraph. 

If B&H is "one of America's largest photographic retailers with a big name..." we don't need to stoop to shenanigans such as these. And, the reason we're  "one of America's largest photographic retailers with a big name..." is we never have and never will. We don't and we won't.



> Despicable, really. Disingenuous. I used to sell photo and video goods at retail. I know how this business works.


Apparently things worked differently where you worked than they do at B&H where our 35+ year history of unimpeachable ethical integrity is far more important than this. If a customer says _my need is urgent_, we'd be disingenuous to suggest Brand A if we know Brand A is currently in short supply and they're backordered on a host of essential items.


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## kilerb (Nov 15, 2010)

bigtwinky said:


> If the OP is buying a flash and is doing head shots, why does he need a cool lite kit?  Why not just a stand, bracket and umbrella and mount his already shopping carted flash using some Cactus triggers?  Nice to go on location with, as alot of newcomers shoot outdoors
> 
> And why an Extreme card?  I use Ultra cards and they work amazing.   Why the extra expense for someone looking to start out?
> 
> ...



Thanks for your suggestions!  Is there something you would suggest between the cheap one and the $1400 one?   Appreciate your feedback!


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## sleist (Nov 15, 2010)

In defense of B&H, Nikon's stock _*has*_ been _*very*_ spotty.  I've been watching 4 different lenses over the past couple months and if I was a pro needing pro glass now, I might regret my choice of Nikon.  As I understand it, this has always been the case off and on with Nikon.  Maybe they're playing games in anticipation of the dollar falling against the yen and holding back inventory. [shrug]


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## kundalini (Nov 15, 2010)

henryp, your sharp tongue (via the keyboard) is quite distasteful as a customer relations representative.  That's another reason why I have moved over to Adorama for my on-line purchases.

HelenOster's (at Adorama) responses to customer issues here on TPF have been nothing but concerned interest to reconcile the particular query of a member.  No justification involved, nor is a terse comment applied or implied.


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## Derrel (Nov 15, 2010)

Henry Posner,
 I think you misunderstood my comments: the "big name" is you, Henry Posner. I was referring to you, you of the 120-135 photography forum memberships.

Also, Mr. Posner, where does the OP suggest that he is in a hurry for his equipment? Could you please refer us to the post where the OP  states that he is in immediate need or in a hurry for his equipment? Or is that just some type of disingenuous, argumentative tactic?

The OP DOES however, state that he really would like a Nikon D90 (in post #34),but, I do not see where the OP stated that he was in a hurry to buy; I DO HOWEVER, read that the sales guy there at B&H Photo was "adamant" in his suggestions that the OP buy a Canon outfit.

Here is what the original poster wroteost Title: "Just Got a Quote From B&H - Equipment Change Suggestions?



			
				kilerb said:
			
		

> Was talking to the sales guy.  He seemed very nice and knowledgeable.  One thing I noticed immediately is that he steered me away from Nikon and to Canon, citing that if I need accessories, Nikon will be WAY BACK ORDERED....  And he adamantly suggested Canon because of this.  He suggested the Rebel T2I as you can see in the quote below.
> 
> So, this is what he suggested for indoor and outdoor portraits or head shots, which is all I'll be using this for at the start.  I'd appreciate any suggestions on substituting any of this for something that might be more or less money.  Value is what I'm looking for here.  I just want to have a high quality setup for indoor and outdoor portrait shots.  Thanks a lot!  Here's the quote....
> >>List of items deleted for brevity>
> ...



Anyway, the OP replies in post #18, #23, #34 where he states, "I'm leaning towards the D90 per a pretty unanimous liking of the body and usage down the line." He  also replies in posts #39, #42.

Now,Henry, in NONE of his posts, does the OP suggest that time is of the essence. 

I submit Mr. Posner, that it was you being disingenuous when you wrote, "If a customer says my need is urgent, we'd be disingenuous to suggest Brand A if we know Brand A is currently in short supply and they're backordered on a host of essential items."

Well, speaking of being disingenuous, Henry Posner, I deplore the way you have tried to imply or suggest that the customer is in urgent need of being sold $1,941 worth of photographic goods. The potential customer has stated that: "I'm leaning towards the D90 per a pretty unanimous liking of the body and usage down the line." Hmmmm....he likes the Nikon body in what he describes as a "pretty unanimous liking" and suggests  he is considering "usage down the line".

So, is Nikon backordered on a "host of essential items" at B&H? What, exactly, are you talking about Mr. Posner??? Can your company NOT supply this man with a Nikon D90 and a zoom lens an a flash? 

What kind of a strawman argument are you trying to construct here? Parsing your statement we get an "if a customer says"...."my need is urgent" and then "they're backordered on a host of essential items"....what I see is a huge, empty strawman. Future tense, customer need NOT IN EVIDENCE, and POSTULATED, widespread lack of stock on a "host of essential items".

Where is this type of HYPOTHETICAL, future massive out of stock argument coming from? Does B&H have a Nikon D90, a $450 zoom lens, and a lower-tier Nikon flash in stock now, or not?


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## GeorgieGirl (Nov 15, 2010)

My take away from the posts were that this was a camera that he wanted now, not later. Who wants to wait for a camera once they decided what they want...Not me! Heaven knows its not available at B&H. So....really...here's an alternate suggestion if you want to go this route...disingenuous??? Not my take away...

Meanwhile, I am not seeing anyone commit to helping this guy with his Nikon lens question...

Henry...care to make a suggestion or two for this guy...you might be the only one right now who has the gumption to...Even if they are not in stock...:thumbup:


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## kundalini (Nov 15, 2010)

GeorgieGirl said:


> ...care to make a suggestion or two for this guy...


Adorama
Calumet
KEH
Midwest Photo
Photo4less
LOCAL!
... and a multitude of others.....


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## traylorc (Nov 15, 2010)

henryp said:


> Apparently things worked differently where you worked than they do at B&H where our 35+ year history of unimpeachable ethical integrity is far more important than this. If a customer says _my need is urgent_, we'd be disingenuous to suggest Brand A if we know Brand A is currently in short supply and they're backordered on a host of essential items.



It's been my experience that companies that truly have "unimpeachable ethical integrity" do not have to resort to beating their chest and telling everyone they have "unimpeachable ethical integrity".


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## GeorgieGirl (Nov 15, 2010)

kundalini said:


> GeorgieGirl said:
> 
> 
> > ...care to make a suggestion or two for this guy...
> ...



ooooohhhh you are so bad. eacemrgreen:


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## henryp (Nov 16, 2010)

sleist said:


> In defense of B&H, Nikon's stock has  been very spotty. I've been watching 4 different lenses over the past couple months and if I was a pro needing pro glass now, I might regret my choice of Nikon.



Thank you. Much appreciated.



kundalini said:


> henryp, your sharp tongue (via the keyboard) is quite distasteful as a customer relations representative.



We will have to agree to disagree, particularly since my most recent reply was to a base and meritless calumny.



Derrel said:


> Henry Posner,
> I think you misunderstood my comments: the "big name" is you, Henry Posner. I was referring to you, you of the 120-135 photography forum memberships.



I didn't misunderstand a thing. Slow and thick as I may seem to you I did manage to suss that out. 



Derrel said:


> Does B&H have a Nikon D90, a $450 zoom lens, and a lower-tier Nikon flash in stock now, or not?



As you'll see from my links below, the D90 has been and remains unavailable and we do not have any reliable information from Nikon USA about when (or how many) we can expect more. The SB-400 and SB-600 are in stock. The Nikon 16-85mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR AF-S DX is too, but at $619.95 may be a bit much under the circumstances. OTOH, the Nikon 18-105mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR AF-S DX at 359.95 is worth a look.



GeorgieGirl said:


> My take away from the posts were that this was a camera that he wanted now, not later. Who wants to wait for a camera once they decided what they want...Not me! Heaven knows its not available at B&H. So....really...here's an alternate suggestion if you want to go this route...disingenuous??? Not my take away..



Thank you. Much appreciated.



> Henry...care to make a suggestion or two for this guy...you might be the only one right now who has the gumption to...Even if they are not in stock...


The OP wrote his primary considerations were:
_"indoor and outdoor portraits or head shots, which is all I'll be using this for at the start."_

I think any of us with any experience at this knows there's no one right answer here and the fact that _portraits or head shots_ can be one person's head-n-shoulders to a small group at full length. That's one advantage, in the OP's situation, for suggesting the zoom rather than a handful of lenses of overlapping focal lengths or ranges. When I was shooting full-time, back in the days of 35mm, my go-to lens for head-n-shoulders portraiture was Nikon's venerable 105/2.5, but that lens was certainly not indicated for most couples or full-lengths, and was IMO better suited to studio than location work where the ambiance contributes to the overall results. 

I note later the OP wrote, _"I am on a budget, but would like something that REALLY looks great."_ Respectfully, I think something that really works great is the higher priority. 

So what one lens fits the OP's needs presuming the Rebel T2i (or Nikon D90 which the OP also mentioned)? I think it's worth mentioning the D90 and all D90 kits packed by Nikon are and have been unavailable for some time and right now we do not know if inventory will be replenished today or tomorrow or Christmas eve. I'm also bearing in mind the OP said, _"The reason I liked the B&H guy's suggestion was because he claimed  the lens he picked would work great for indoors and outdoors and I  wouldn't need any other lenses.  That's what I want."_ Earlier, he'd said, _"...I'm not a trained pro with an eye for these things..."_

So a relatively inexperienced non-pro wanting to do a variety of work under diverse shooting conditions wants an all-in-one lens with which he can quickly become comfortable. Canon's EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM remains a reasonable suggestion taking all this into account. I certainly concede it's not the only option and I know full well if you ask three photographers you'll easily end up with four opinions. I wouldn't discount Sigma's 17-70mm F2.8-4 DC Macro OS HSM Lens either. Neither of these is inexpensive but both offer the twin benefits of a relatively fast max aperture with a reasonably useful zoom range. The OP said he wanted one lens which, "_would work great for indoors and outdoors." _

I am sure there are as many opinions about this as there are people participating in this thread. I am equally sure there are other valid suggestions to be had and I am confident it's possible to continue this conversation with collegiality, basing our comments on the OP's individual situation and our collective experience owning and using the equipment without resorting to name-calling, and baseless accusations of profiteering or piracy.


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## mjhoward (Nov 16, 2010)

henryp said:


> I think it's worth mentioning the D90 and all D90 kits packed by Nikon are and have been unavailable for some time and right now



Try telling that to other retailers.  Newegg happens to have the 'impossible' to find kit IN STOCK: Newegg.com - Nikon D90 Black 12.3 MP 3.0" 920K LCD Digital SLR Camera w/ AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-105mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR Lens

They've got the kit for $1029 and it is IN STOCK.  Thats cheaper than B&H and you dont have to wait.

Funny thing is that I once talked to one of your 'Live Chat' reps when I had a D7000 on pre-order.  I asked how much later B&H received their stock than other retailers.  As an example to him, I said that Best Buy showed on their website that they have had D3100 kits in stock for a couple of weeks now, and that on B&H's website, it still showed backordered/unknown arrival date.  His response was that nobody had received any of the kits yet, and that Best Buy was likely lying to its customers by posting in stock on their website when they didn't actually have it in stock.... I walked into best buy that day, and saw one of the kits sitting on the shelf.


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## Derrel (Nov 16, 2010)

B&H does not have the D90 listed as new and in-stock today. But they do have the Canon the OP did not inquire about. This is not "a baseless accusation about profiteering or piracy", as Mr. Posner alleges. Instead, it's a simple, no BS opinion as to what actually happened. I'm not some kid who just fell off the turnip truck. He is defending his salesman's actions with a lot of vigor. Too much vigor, methinks.

A store can not sell what it does not have in inventory these days. When a customer comes in or calls in on the phone, a salesman tries to sell what he has available. It's pretty clear that selling a customer a d-slr, zoom, on-camera speedlight flash, and a lighting kit was the priority. Even though the customer got "switched" from the Nikon D90 that he wanted and into a Canon system. If the customer ever wants a built-in remote flash commander, the Nikon D90 has it, the Canon T2i does not have it.


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## traylorc (Nov 16, 2010)

mjhoward said:


> henryp said:
> 
> 
> > I think it's worth mentioning the D90 and all D90 kits packed by Nikon are and have been unavailable for some time and right now
> ...



You must be mistaken....if an employee who works for a company with "35+ years of unimpeachable ethical integrity" tells you that D90 kit is unavailable....then that kit is not available anywhere.

Obviously the Newegg link is a glorified "April's Fools" joke and that kit you saw in Best Buy was a well designed hologram. :mrgreen:


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## vtf (Nov 16, 2010)

A new twist for trolling the Canon vs. Nikon debate.


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## GeorgieGirl (Nov 16, 2010)

mjhoward said:


> Funny thing is that I once talked to one of your 'Live Chat' reps when I had a D7000 on pre-order. I asked how much later B&H received their stock than other retailers. As an example to him, I said that Best Buy showed on their website that they have had D3100 kits in stock for a couple of weeks now, and that on B&H's website, it still showed backordered/unknown arrival date. His response was that nobody had received any of the kits yet, and that Best Buy was likely lying to its customers by posting in stock on their website when they didn't actually have it in stock.... I walked into best buy that day, and saw one of the kits sitting on the shelf.


 
One thing that I can share from an experience that I had at B&H was the suggestion to request notification of an item returning to stock via the website. It was explained that fulfilment for customer requested items would preceed the release of items to general inventory as In Stock. 

Any time there is an item that I want and it is listed as Backorder on the site, I issue the request for notification and I do get notified once that item is available for shipment.

I may not have a popular opnion but I have bought my photo equipment at B&H since they opened. I go to the store, I talk to the staff there, I think it is an amazing universe there and I don't think that anything compares to it. 

I would not hesitate to pick somehting up at Best Buy, but I don't think that I would ever rely on the opinion of one of their employees. I might be short sighted and judging a book by its cover, but I just don't have a perception that the staff is equal. So for just go and pick it up, OK, but after taxes I'm still going with B&H and their generous shipping options being the better price. And I'm not trying to be argumentative, please beleive me. 

Henry...I have my eye on a new camera...I'll be at the store Sunday!


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## mjhoward (Nov 16, 2010)

GeorgieGirl said:


> So for just go and pick it up, OK, but after taxes I'm still going with B&H and their generous shipping options being the better price.



I ended up cancelling my pre-order and did purchase my D7000 from Best Buy.  After using the 10% off movers coupon which made it cheaper than at B&H even after taxes and I was able to use it about a month sooner.

As for the OP, he'll notice that the link I provided him to Newegg will yield the same result... cheaper and sooner.


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## kilerb (Nov 16, 2010)

So, I went to Samy's and purchased the D7000.  They only had the kit with the 18-105mm DX VR lens which seems like a good all purpose lens for when I'm at comedy clubs and need to zoom a bit.  I got the d7000 because it was $300 more than the D90 and figured I won't be doing this again for a long time.  I do think I might not notice a big difference if any between this one and the D90.  It took me awhile and almost got the D90.  I also got a 50mm lens for it made by Nikon for about $130.  He said it would be good for portrait shots where zooming isn't necessary.  They had another one with better glass, but it was like 500 or 600 bucks.  I have 15 days to exchange if necessary.  I was trying to be decisive and it's hard.  I even bought the 5 year warranty for $200 and then returned it 10 minutes later while looking at accessories.  I know a newbie shouldn't jump in this deep sometimes, but I also don't want to wish I paid $300 extra 6 months from now...  So I bit the bullet and went for it.  Didn't get any lighting yet and the guy in that dept. was definitely trying to sell me on the benefits of expensive lighting.  They wanted a couple hundred bucks for a reflector for outside use with a stand.  It really adds up.  Ugh!!!  Should I have just got the D90 body with that 50mm lens and saved the $300 on the kit/lens?  Thanks guys...  I appreciate all the suggestions.


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## GeorgieGirl (Nov 16, 2010)

kilerb said:


> So, I went to Samy's and purchased the D7000.  They only had the kit with the 18-105mm DX VR lens which seems like a good all purpose lens for when I'm at comedy clubs and need to zoom a bit.  I got the d7000 because it was $300 more than the D90 and figured I won't be doing this again for a long time.  I do think I might not notice a big difference if any between this one and the D90.  It took me awhile and almost got the D90.  I also got a 50mm lens for it made by Nikon for about $130.  He said it would be good for portrait shots where zooming isn't necessary.  They had another one with better glass, but it was like 500 or 600 bucks.  I have 15 days to exchange if necessary.  I was trying to be decisive and it's hard.  I even bought the 5 year warranty for $200 and then returned it 10 minutes later while looking at accessories.  I know a newbie shouldn't jump in this deep sometimes, but I also don't want to wish I paid $300 extra 6 months from now...  So I bit the bullet and went for it.  Didn't get any lighting yet and the guy in that dept. was definitely trying to sell me on the benefits of expensive lighting.  They wanted a couple hundred bucks for a reflector for outside use with a stand.  It really adds up.  Ugh!!!  Should I have just got the D90 body with that 50mm lens and saved the $300 on the kit/lens?  Thanks guys...  I appreciate all the suggestions.



WooHoo!!! You have to just start taking pictures now.:thumbup: I think that you chose a more advanced camera, the video aspect is nice, not intended, but now you don't need a separate camera for that. The autofocus system on the 7000 will be better in the long run and I am glad you declined the warranty. So in the end, this might have turned out better than you planed. 

The camera I have now is more in line with what your original choice was. I am looking at the 7D which is more like your D7000, so an upgrade for me in terms of focus, ISO, bulb setting and more. (Still not FF for me tho) Again, I think you will be very happy with your choice. 

Lighting is a whole different topic. You wanted the speedlight. For outdoors and portability it probably is the way to go, especially since you do want to do outdoors. You can get a reflector and stand kit/deal...I got a nice one that is Impact, just for an idea, with a 4 in 1 reflector. So a speedlight still is probably the right choice for you to start with and the reflector is always needed both inside and out.

You got your new camera....Yay!!!:smileys:


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## bigtwinky (Nov 16, 2010)

henryp said:


> Apparently things worked differently where you worked than they do at B&H where our 35+ year history of unimpeachable ethical integrity is far more important than this. If a customer says _my need is urgent_, we'd be disingenuous to suggest Brand A if we know Brand A is currently in short supply and they're backordered on a host of essential items.



I'm not usually one to get into such debates, but I seem to remember a few lawsuites in the last couple of years....one about issues with promoting women to the salestaff and another one a few years before about benefits and promotion of hispanic people?  Not sure where the women suite ended up but I believe the hispanic suite was actually settled for a few million?

Unimpeachable ethical integrity?  :thumbdown:

Dont get me wrong, many many companies have discrimination issues such as this.  Its fairly common.  But they don't go preaching differently in public.


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## GeorgieGirl (Nov 17, 2010)

That's not accurate. Plenty of companies have legal issues with employees and still go and do a fantastic job doing what they do. In addition, I think that the dialog is starting to veer in a direction that in an of itself will go into a zone that is prejudicial, so I am checking out of this thread. 

Very, very happy that kilerb got his new camera!!!


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## henryp (Nov 17, 2010)

traylorc said:


> You must be mistaken....if an employee who works for a company with "35+ years of unimpeachable ethical integrity" tells you that D90 kit is unavailable....then that kit is not available anywhere.



I didn't say they were unavailable _anywhere_. Please don't put words in my mouth. I'm perfectly capable of speaking for myself and saying what I mean when I do. Thank you.


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## Village Idiot (Nov 17, 2010)

I've spent enough money with B&H and had enough contact with their company, as well as other like them, to know some things...

They've never done anything wrong to me and I've always had good service from them.

Attack me as you will, Darrel, but any company that a person calls for advice is going to do the same thing. When I worked in a retail environment when I was younger, the only time you sent a customer to another shop to buy is when you absolutely don't have, or cannot get, the item you're looking for.


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## bigtwinky (Nov 17, 2010)

GeorgieGirl said:


> That's not accurate. Plenty of companies have legal issues with employees and still go and do a fantastic job doing what they do. In addition, I think that the dialog is starting to veer in a direction that in an of itself will go into a zone that is prejudicial, so I am checking out of this thread.


 
Why is it not accurate?  Those issues are publicly known.  
I do 100% agree that plenty of companies have legal issues with employees, my own has a few going through these days, and this is not linked to the quality of service they give their customers.  I've purchased from BH and will in the future.  Each time I head down to NY, I make a stop there, guaranteed, whether my wife likes it or not (although she then heads to Century 21, so we all all squared on the spending side lol)

My comment was directly made towards the 35 years of "Unimpeachable ethical integrity".  There is no company that can claim that, none.  If I were to not shop at companies that are not 100% ethical 100% of the time in all their dealings, then I would become a do it yourselfer.



> Very, very happy that kilerb got his new camera!!!


 
Oh, was that the original topic?  hehe :mrgreen:
I agree, congrats!!!


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## Dao (Nov 17, 2010)

HenryP, personally, I think you should respond differently.     You may win the argument, however, you may lost the case.




P.S. I agree that if D90 was not in stock, the salesman should recommend a different camera.  Of course, the buyer need to know why.  (I assume the salesman did that already)


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## bigtwinky (Nov 17, 2010)

kilerb said:


> bigtwinky said:
> 
> 
> > If the OP is buying a flash and is doing head shots, why does he need a cool lite kit? Why not just a stand, bracket and umbrella and mount his already shopping carted flash using some Cactus triggers? Nice to go on location with, as alot of newcomers shoot outdoors
> ...


 
Honestly, get the cheap 50mm f/1.8 lens.  It is cheap in price and cheaply built, but man, it can give amazing results.  Its a great great lens to learn with.  And 5 years down the road, you will probably still have it or have upgrade to the 50mm f/1.4 because you love shooting with this style lens so much.  Serious.  Great for portraits.

Its a must have in any photographer's bag.  It will add that extra open aperture to let more light in when shooting low light as well (concerts and so on).


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## ghache (Nov 17, 2010)

I bought some stuff at BH a few times and i definitely will again. 
I did get some great price on a few items that I could not found locally even in canadian stores.

I think "buyer be aware" always applies even when dealing with reputable business. 
Sales rep might not be paid with commission but the more he sells, the better he looks. This all comes down to you should research anything you buy and get a second advice if you are not sure what you are doing.

The only person you can blame if you buy some **** that does not suit your needs is you.

If they didnt had the d90 in stock. its normal they proposed another model they had in stock. If you really wanted a d90, you should have said oh well, this is not what i want, have a good day.


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## traylorc (Nov 17, 2010)

henryp said:


> traylorc said:
> 
> 
> > You must be mistaken....if an employee who works for a company with "35+ years of unimpeachable ethical integrity" tells you that D90 kit is unavailable....then that kit is not available anywhere.
> ...



My bad Henry....the correct statement is the D90 kit is available for sale at other vendors, but not one of the largest camera retailers in the country.  You would think with all those years of unimpeachable integrity Nikon would make sure your stores were stocked 24/7 with one of the best selling cameras in the country.  You're welcome.

I'm glad the OP was able to find a camera.


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## kilerb (Nov 19, 2010)

Thanks a lot for all your comments and opinions.  I was just reading other threads about lighting.  Is the kit the guy from B&H in the quote above (Original post) good for starting?  I keep reading about constant lighting vs. flash/strobe etc...  If not, what would you suggest as a starter kit for the D7000.  I'd like something that will last me awhile and that I won't want to upgrade in the next week.  Also, I'm going to be doing the indoor shots in my living room.  I just measured and it's only about 12-13 feet from one wall to the other.  Is that enough space?  Thanks guys!


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## Village Idiot (Nov 19, 2010)

kilerb said:


> Thanks a lot for all your comments and opinions. I was just reading other threads about lighting. Is the kit the guy from B&H in the quote above (Original post) good for starting? I keep reading about constant lighting vs. flash/strobe etc... If not, what would you suggest as a starter kit for the D7000. I'd like something that will last me awhile and that I won't want to upgrade in the next week. Also, I'm going to be doing the indoor shots in my living room. I just measured and it's only about 12-13 feet from one wall to the other. Is that enough space? Thanks guys!


 
I personally would not go with constant lighting for people shooting. I'm sure some one else will chime in to why they wouldn't go with it either with sentiments that will mirror mine. I'll give them some thanks when they do.


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## Derrel (Nov 19, 2010)

Do NOT buy continuous lighting for photographing people. Head over to Adorama.com and look at their low-cost Flashpoint 320M monolights, which cost $129 with a light unit, umbrella, and light stand. Buy two of the 320M model, 150 watt-second monolights. And consider getting one of the $34.95, 16-inch beauty dish light reflectors.

Again...continuous lights....agghhhhh....what sales help!


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## bigtwinky (Nov 19, 2010)

I agree...strobes over continuous.  

You can look at getting some regular speedlights as use those as your main light sources.  They are not as powerful as studio style strobes, but if you even plan on going on location, they are more portable.  With studio strobes that require power, you need a power pack to plug them in.

You can get some cheaper manual flashes instead of the high end Canon 580EX II or Nikon SB-900.  Something like a Lumopro LN160 - as powerful as the Canon and Nikon, but full manual.


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## kilerb (Nov 19, 2010)

Derrel said:


> Do NOT buy continuous lighting for photographing people. Head over to Adorama.com and look at their low-cost Flashpoint 320M monolights, which cost $129 with a light unit, umbrella, and light stand. Buy two of the 320M model, 150 watt-second monolights. And consider getting one of the $34.95, 16-inch beauty dish light reflectors.
> 
> Again...continuous lights....agghhhhh....what sales help!



Thanks guys...  I appreciate the help.  I just went to the site and did a search for the 320m...  320m - Adorama.com 

There's a bunch of different options and none seem to be $129.  Did the price change?  Just want to make sure I don't get the wrong thing.  Thanks!


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## henryp (Nov 22, 2010)

Village Idiot said:


> I personally would not go with constant lighting for people shooting. I'm sure some one else will chime in to why they wouldn't go with it either with sentiments that will mirror mine. I'll give them some thanks when they do.



I'd say 90% of the portraits I've done were shot with strobes. Back when film was king and ISO 100 was usually the fastest option portrait photographers would use, hot lights powerful enough to use for portraiture were  HOT. Hot enough to melt makeup and easily hot enough to ignite a softbox or umbrella. Expensive, heavy and cumbersome too. Most of us learned to use strobes with model lamps or _by guess and by gosh_, but neither is perfect.

Today we can get perfectly good digital images from higher ISO settings and constant lighting is no longer hot at all, nor expensive or cumbersome. It offers the advantage of showing the photographer exactly what the lighting is doing to the subject's face, skin, clothes, hair etc and is a very viable alternative. Particularly for someone starting out, not having to go through the learning curve of interpreting model lamps or speedlights w/out model lamps can be a boon. I have no plans to dump my monolights, but I recognize there's more than one solution to almost any photographic question of hardware or technique.

YMMV of course. BTW, there are two dozen inexpensive mono-light kit options here. Two-light kits start at <$200.00.


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