# Question About a Couple Old Cameras



## LedZ38 (May 29, 2008)

Hello everyone.

Let me just start out by saying that I am new to photography. I am not very familiar with older cameras and their value.

I have recently come across 5 cameras, all Leicas, that I am considering selling. Here are their model/serial numbers:

M4-1176313
M4-1213504
No. 198039 (No model number. That is the only form of ID on the camera)
M3-705014
M4-1213181

I was wondering if anyone could provide some insight into how much these cameras are worth and where I could get some information/specifications on them.

Also, I know that these cameras are valuable, so please do not take advantage of the situation.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanx


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## usayit (May 29, 2008)

Holy *$&*!!!!!!!

The M3.... it's worth some money to a collector (if in good condition)!!  It is a first run M3.  ALthough the market is kinda funny in the way that it changes/fluctuates...

Mitica.. am I right/wrong?


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## LedZ38 (May 29, 2008)

usayit said:


> Holy *$&*!!!!!!!
> 
> The M3.... it's worth some money to a collector (if in good condition)!!  It is a first run M3.  ALthough the market is kinda funny in the way that it changes/fluctuates...
> 
> Mitica.. am I right/wrong?



Do you know any good places to sell the cameras? I am going to keep 1-2 of them, but I really don't need 5.


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## usayit (May 29, 2008)

You really need to take it to a Leica expert/dealer (I don't necessarily collect... I use Leicas.. so I could be wrong about value).

They will be the best to figure out the condition, help you decide if a CLA will ultimately increase the final selling price, and assist with the sale.

Not sure where you are located but almost all my Leica stuff comes through www.bergencountycamera.com (local to me in NJ).  Paul B. and Rob P. are the two local Leica "nutcases". hehehe.

There is also another trusted name in the NY area who also does the repairs on Leica equipment:

http://www.sherrykrauter.com

Sherry's work is FIRST rate.

If I wasn't still recovering from my last spending spree on camera stuff, I'd seriously consider an M4 (even though I shouldn't... even think about it... don't really need it)


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## usayit (May 29, 2008)

For 198039 serial... If it is a leica, the serial makes it out to be a 1936 Leica IIIa.  Another one that should be evaluated by an expert.

My opinion, I'd keep the M3 and the best cosmetic M4 (black perhaps).

The M3 is considered one of the best Leica cameras ever made... the quality is often considered unsurpassed even today.  The issue with it is that it lacks any wide angle framelines (50-90-135).  The advantage is the viewfinder's high magnification which makes it easy to line up the patches.

The 2nd body, an M4 is also a great camera and many still prefer it today.  Part of the reason is that it expands the framelines to include 
35.  The finder can be upgraded to include different magnifications.

So M3 (CLAd) and the M4 (perhaps update the finder to that of an M6, 28-35-50-75-90-135).  Neither have a meter.


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## usayit (May 29, 2008)

http://www.cameraquest.com/mguide.htm
http://www.kbcamera.com/mreviews.htm


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## LedZ38 (May 29, 2008)

Thank you very much for the advice. When you mentioned the idea of going to an official Leica dealer, I looked on the Leica website and found one nearby my house. I live in the Philadelphia area, so if it doesn't work out, I will check out the two locations you mentioned in NJ.

I looked on ebay to see the average price of an M4 and WOW! I knew they were worth something but I had no idea it that much.

Tomorrow I will call up the Leica dealer and hopefully get some more information. Thanx for the advice.


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## Mitica100 (May 29, 2008)

Hey... I'm late as usual! :lmao:

Man, them Leicas just came across?? Why don't I have that luck???

M4-1176313 - made in 1967
M4-1213504 - made in 1969
No. 198039 - model IIIa made in 1936
M3-705014 - made in 1954 and yes, a first run of the M3 (the 5015th camera)
M4-1213181 - made in 1968-69

Prices vary, the M3 is going to be quite high if in great shape, due to the 'first series' status. The M4s (I can use one, if you wanna spare one) are going to be up there as well and the IIIa is going to be probably the less expensive of the lot. I still shoot a prewar IIIa, smooth operation and perfect spacing between negatives, and I mean perfect!

Enjoy! And don't let the Leica dealers scare you into the _"well, it's not worth that much because... _(insert your own or their own BS here)_"! _If not sure, go seek second opinions.

Let us know...


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## nealjpage (May 30, 2008)

I'll PM you my mailing address.  Go 'head and send me one of the M4s as well.  I could really use one ;-)


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## LedZ38 (Jun 2, 2008)

So I talked to a Leica dealer and the salesman offered me $2000 for all 5 cameras. 

The cameras are in moderate condition. They are not beat up but they are not in pristine condition. Is $2000 for all 5 cameras a fair asking price? How much is each camera worth?


Thanx


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## Mitica100 (Jun 2, 2008)

LedZ38 said:


> So I talked to a Leica dealer and the salesman offered me $2000 for all 5 cameras.
> 
> The cameras are in moderate condition. They are not beat up but they are not in pristine condition. Is $2000 for all 5 cameras a fair asking price? How much is each camera worth?
> 
> ...



Are you effing kidding me??? They're trying to rip you off!!!!

Read my advice:  DO NOT SELL TO THAT DEALER/SALESMAN!!!

A moderate Leica M3 body alone will fetch about 700-800 bucks. On top of that you have three other M4s at about 1,000 a piece (body only), then you add the IIIa at about 250 (body only) and then you add the lenses.

You do the math...

Don't sell to a dealer, sell to a collector/user. They will give you the fair price, dealers always hit you under the belt.


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## LedZ38 (Jun 2, 2008)

Mitica100 said:


> Are you effing kidding me??? They're trying to rip you off!!!!
> 
> Read my advice:  DO NOT SELL TO THAT DEALER/SALESMAN!!!
> 
> ...




Thanx for the advice. I am glad people are looking out for each other on this forum


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## Mitica100 (Jun 2, 2008)

LedZ38 said:


> Thanx for the advice. I am glad people are looking out for each other on this forum



Anytime!!!


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## usayit (Jun 2, 2008)

Wow that seems to be a rip.... 

Could you take a photo of each camera just so that we can see their condition.  

Also take note:

Most legitimate camera shops work in two ways:
*) Consignment.  They sell the item in their shop but you retain ownership during that time.  No money is exchanged until the item is sold.  The camera shop will take a percentage of the sale as their fee.  
*) Trade in.  They take the item in exchange for cash that is given to you right there on the spot.

what you are describing sounds like a Trade in.  Just like cars, Trade-in will net you the least for those cameras.  Often a Trade in will be 1/2 of the value of what the dealer can sell it for.


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## nealjpage (Jun 2, 2008)

I say that you use 'em all.  They can be your new children.


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## Mitica100 (Jun 2, 2008)

usayit said:


> Most legitimate camera shops work in two ways:
> *) Consignment.  They sell the item in their shop but you retain ownership during that time.  No money is exchanged until the item is sold.  The camera shop will take a percentage of the sale as their fee.
> *) Trade in.  They take the item in exchange for cash that is given to you right there on the spot.



Unfortunately, either way a losing proposition. 

Consignment=40% commission
Trade In=50% commission.


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## usayit (Jun 3, 2008)

Mitica100 said:


> Consignment=40% commission
> Trade In=50% commission.



The local shop (mentioned above) that gets most of my business is MUCH better... 

Consignment is 20% for store credit and 30% for cash out.  I've spent several paychecks full in that shop so the past 4 lenses I've sold they gave me 20% cash out.

Trade in is about 50% of what they think they can sell it for.. but you get the cash right away.


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## Mitica100 (Jun 3, 2008)

usayit said:


> The local shop (mentioned above) that gets most of my business is MUCH better...
> 
> Consignment is 20% for store credit and 30% for cash out.  I've spent several paychecks full in that shop so the past 4 lenses I've sold they gave me 20% cash out.




I'm moving there!...


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## TheLostPhotographer (Jun 4, 2008)

Speak to Two, or Three separate camera dealers and ask them to make you an offer for each individual camera body and lens. Don't take them to the shop with the lenses attached to the bodies.

Once you have a couple of offers on each lens and body, double it for what you can expect to get on ebay.

Ebay is the best place to sell collectable cameras provided that you list them correctly.

Dealers work to a 100% profit margin. They have to. Don't blame them for trying to rip you off. They need to make a profit, but in these days of the web and ebay you have as much access to the market, and potential buyers as they do. Better than that, if you sell honestly you'll get no negative come back.

Quality, well lit and well presented photographs count for a lot on ebay. People appreciate a good look even if it reveals a few dents and scratches. You'll be asked about mould and stuff in lenses by prospective buyers. Just answer honestly to the best of your knowledge and you'll get the best possible price.


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