# Is B&H Just mental, or...?



## manaheim (Oct 10, 2008)

In this day and age... heck in 8 year ago's day and age... how does _this_ make _any_ sense?


*Welcome to B&H Photo!
We are temporarily not accepting orders. **Online ordering will resume at Saturday 7:45 PM EDT. *

Do they just have like thousands of keebler elves lined up watching computer screens for the orders, stuffing boxes as they come in, quickly!  Before the order scrolls off the screen!  Quickly!  Oh noes!  We missed one!



*Chris goes off to purchase his stuff from Adorama, since they are apparently willing to keep the elves working on the weekend.*


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## Kenny32 (Oct 10, 2008)

The owners of B&H photo follow a strict Jewish faith...and I believe their temporary closing has something to do with the bunch of Jewish holidays that are going on this time of year.


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## chrisburke (Oct 10, 2008)

yes this weekend is Yom Kippur on the jewish calendar


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## uplander (Oct 10, 2008)

Kenny's got it right. I still buy the bulk of my equiptmnt from B&H. Good prices and never any problems.


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## manaheim (Oct 10, 2008)

Well, ok, at least that explains it. I can't say I think it makes _sense_... but it explains it.

It's also not nearly as funny as the keebler elf theory.

You people are _such _killjoys.


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## Bifurcator (Oct 10, 2008)

Jewish keebler elves?


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## chrisburke (Oct 10, 2008)

yea, it does seem strange that they cant take orders and such, but the reason is because during Yom Kippur the same rules as sabbath appley...All Sabbath-like work restrictions. In addition, there are special restrictions against eating, washing, annointing, marital relations and wearing leather shoes


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## mkrolewski (Oct 11, 2008)

And B&H is does not accept any orders on Saturdays. As far as I know this has been going on for years.


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## Iron Flatline (Oct 11, 2008)

I grew up around Hasidic Jews, so I understand what they do... and yes, it's pretty much Keebler elves - dressed in black. Go to the store if you're ever in New York, it's a sight to see. But don't bother going on Saturdays. 

By the way, Adorama is also run by Hasids. I think theire site shuts down for Shabbat and the holidays as well...


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## KD5NRH (Oct 11, 2008)

Iron Flatline said:


> I grew up around Hasidic Jews, so I understand what they do...



Since when is ignoring goyim for a day work?

One could argue that putting the message up for every customer is more work than just letting the order sit there until they get back.


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## Mike_E (Oct 11, 2008)

KD5NRH said:


> Since when is ignoring goyim for a day work?
> 
> One could argue that putting the message up for every customer is more work than just letting the order sit there until they get back.







I'm not Jewish but that there is funny!!!


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## ksmattfish (Oct 11, 2008)

manaheim said:


> In this day and age... heck in 8 year ago's day and age... how does _this_ make _any_ sense?



If as crazy as they get is taking a few days off that's fine with me.  Some folks get real nutty with their religion...

9/11
suicide bombings
the President of the USA starts a war on a mission from God
honor killings
all the senseless killing in the middle east in general


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## fstopusa (Oct 11, 2008)

I'm not Jewish, but, personally, I think it is cool that they follow their beliefs to that extent. I'm sure it is not a "good" business decision if all you are concerned about is the bottom line. It tells me that the company is concerned about people and principles and in my dealings with B&H that has always been true. If I have had an issue with something I purchased from them, they took care of it.


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## KD5NRH (Oct 11, 2008)

I personally don't care whether or not they're sitting there live to read the order as it comes in or not.  I just want to be able to place it when it's convenient for me and they can fill it when they get back.  So far, every time I've started to get something from them I've gotten one of those popups, gone to Adorama, and given them my business.

Seems like fairly often it's on my doorstep before B&H is even willing to let me try to place an order.


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## manaheim (Oct 11, 2008)

KD5NRH said:


> I personally don't care whether or not they're sitting there live to read the order as it comes in or not. I just want to be able to place it when it's convenient for me and they can fill it when they get back. So far, every time I've started to get something from them I've gotten one of those popups, gone to Adorama, and given them my business.
> 
> Seems like fairly often it's on my doorstep before B&H is even willing to let me try to place an order.


 
Yup, that's kind of where I'm coming from.  B&H has lost about $2000 in business from me to Adorama just this year.


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## usayit (Oct 11, 2008)

fstopusa said:


> I'm not Jewish, but, personally, I think it is cool that they follow their beliefs to that extent. I'm sure it is not a "good" business decision if all you are concerned about is the bottom line. It tells me that the company is concerned about people and principles and in my dealings with B&H that has always been true. If I have had an issue with something I purchased from them, they took care of it.



:thumbup:

My thoughts exactly... sure sounds like we have forgotten that there are other things important in life than the bottom line.  The automotive shop that gets almost all of my business is one of the few shops that are closed on Sunday and Saturday.  I once asked the owner about it and his response:

"In order to provide the best service, I need to take care of my employees... which includes downtime and rest."

Now that is an A1 kinda of business guy!!!  His shop is one of the largest and most successful in the area... much like BH.   


In certain municipalities (at least here in NJ especially) it is required by law to close businesses on Sunday.  Blue law  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_law

In the south, the Chick-fil-a chains close on Sunday... too...


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## PhilGarber (Oct 11, 2008)

manaheim said:


> In this day and age... heck in 8 year ago's day and age... how does _this_ make _any_ sense?
> 
> 
> *Welcome to B&H Photo!
> ...





Yeah, B&H is closed because they follow the Jewish holidays strictly. I would imagine that they're closed for Yom Kippur. (did I spell right?)


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## PhilGarber (Oct 11, 2008)

fstopusa said:


> I'm not Jewish, but, personally, I think it is cool that they follow their beliefs to that extent. I'm sure it is not a "good" business decision if all you are concerned about is the bottom line. It tells me that the company is concerned about people and principles and in my dealings with B&H that has always been true. If I have had an issue with something I purchased from them, they took care of it.



Yeah B&H rules!


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## D40 (Oct 11, 2008)

usayit said:


> :thumbup:
> 
> My thoughts exactly... sure sounds like we have forgotten that there are other things important in life than the bottom line. The automotive shop that gets almost all of my business is one of the few shops that are closed on Sunday and Saturday. I once asked the owner about it and his response:
> 
> ...


 

Agreed! It shows a lot about their character, I am sure they know they loose money when they close for their hollidays, but they do what they feel is right. Also the fact that they post that message up for us means a lot as well, most places would just take in orders and then you are left not knowing what is going on. I will continue to use B&H for my photo gear.


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## D40 (Oct 11, 2008)

manaheim said:


> Yup, that's kind of where I'm coming from. B&H has lost about $2000 in business from me to Adorama just this year.


 
That's ok, they have gotten that $2000 back from me


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## Joves (Oct 11, 2008)

KD5NRH said:


> I personally don't care whether or not they're sitting there live to read the order as it comes in or not. I just want to be able to place it when it's convenient for me and they can fill it when they get back. So far, every time I've started to get something from them I've gotten one of those popups, gone to Adorama, and given them my business.
> 
> Seems like fairly often it's on my doorstep before B&H is even willing to let me try to place an order.


 Yes but you must understand the law they follow. If the computer accepted orders on a Saturday (Sabbath) or, a religous holiday, then the it represents the buisness doing work. Even their livestock are forbidden from doing work at any of those time, hence the computer is now like an ox or, any beast of burden. That they even allow you to look amazes me, they could just put up the message and, not even allow you to look. Despite the minor inconvenience I still give them my business. To me it shows they actually apply and, stick to what they believe. So it they are unlikely to be they type to screw you.


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## reg (Oct 11, 2008)

It's like Chick-Fil-A.

If you absolutely *have* to have that chicken sandwich on Sunday (you probably don't), I guess you'll have to find somewhere else. But it's nothing worth making a huge deal over.


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## royalWITHcheese2 (Oct 11, 2008)

I've never really had a problem with this. It's like this every Saturday, it's not like if you order something from Adorama it's going to get there faster since it's probably not going to be shipped out right away anyways.


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## ranmyaku (Oct 11, 2008)

Ive had issues with adorama in the past. Very rude customer service over the phone...since then BH has gotten all of my business. They have exceptional customer service. I will probably never use another store.


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## FidelCastrovich (Oct 11, 2008)

The reason B&H don't allow you to even place orders on holidays is because they don't want to tempt Jews who are not as strict to go on their site/use a computer/make a financial transaction or in any way break the rules of said holiday. There's a religious term for it in Hebrew, but i don't know how to translate it. 

It's less a matter of having their computers work(because if the site is up, the computers are too) - but, rather, not adding a temptation to break the rules for other less-observant jews. 

Jews are a crazy nation. 

http://s242.photobucket.com/albums/ff180/fidelcastrovich/holidays/
Here are a few pics from the last Yom Kippur in Jerusalem, and two from a special market for the upcoming Sukkot. On Yom Kippur the whole country comes to a standstill as EVERYBODY stays home or goes to a sinagogue. Nothing works, nothing is open, and most importantly - there are no cars (and i mean NO CARS) on the roads, which is of course a great opportunity for cyclists and kids and whoever else can enjoy a nice walk on a major highway.


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## Alex_B (Oct 11, 2008)

In most places in Germany most business is closed on Sunday, and many businesses are closed Saturdays. And online orders from saturday or sunday will usually only be processed on monday anyway.


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## manaheim (Oct 11, 2008)

royalWITHcheese2 said:


> I've never really had a problem with this. It's like this every Saturday, it's not like if you order something from Adorama it's going to get there faster since it's probably not going to be shipped out right away anyways.


 
The internet is all about ordering when it's convenient for me... if 2:00 AM on a Sat is when I happen to remember that I want XXX, then that should be when I can order it. Doing anything else is kinda missing the whole point.

Obviously, any business can do what it wants, but in this case B&H loses out with me occasionally... and under normal circumstances, I probably would pretty much only shop there.


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## Josh66 (Oct 11, 2008)

I was going to order a new lens next week...  I just looked at their holiday schedule, they're going to be closed almost the whole month.  I'll probably just wait and still order from them (everything else was from B&H), but it is a little disappointing that I won't get my new toy as soon.


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## reg (Oct 11, 2008)

FidelCastrovich said:


> Jews are a crazy nation.



Other than the fact that "Jews" isn't a nation....

Real nice.


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## Josh66 (Oct 11, 2008)

reg said:


> Other than the fact that "Jews" isn't a nation....
> 
> Real nice.



They are.  A nation is not necessarily a state.

A nation is just a group of people with the same ethnicity.


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## Samriel (Oct 11, 2008)

I find it rather refreshing to see that in the world of ultra-competitiveness someone actually sticks to religious prohibitions. Yes, it might seem "strange" or "outdated" to us, but that's only because we're used to the 24-7 service society, not because taking a break is wrong. I'm not Jewish, nor strictly religious, but they've earned some respect from me there.



O|||||||O said:


> They are.  A nation is not necessarily a state.



In nationalism theory, a nation needs a common language, culture (historical and/or religious background etc.), AND a land area in which it holds sovereignty (= state) to be a nation. Else, it is "just" a ethnic group. Not everybody needs to live in that area though.


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## Alpha (Oct 11, 2008)

Sounds like a game show.

Tonight at 9...Mental or Jews?!


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## HelenOster (Oct 12, 2008)

royalWITHcheese2 said:


> I've never really had a problem with this. It's like this every Saturday, it's not like if you order something from Adorama it's going to get there faster since it's probably not going to be shipped out right away anyways.


 
At Adorama, customers are able to submit on-line orders on the Sabbath because our servers do not operate in real time. If they did, then like other stores owned buy Orthodox Jews we would also need to close them down completely - as otherwise we would be accepting money on that day.

If you are interested to read about this subject in more depth, here are a couple of articles that were published by the Washington Post and the New York Times.

http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB109269113906892796-IVjg4NnlaJ3o5yubXSHaK6Jm4.html


http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/09/technology/09ecom.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

You need to be aware that many businesses owned by Orthodox Jews will be closed from the 14th - 22nd October for the holiday of Sukkot / Succos, (closing early on 13th). We really do appreciate your understanding that this is a special time of year for us.

Thank you to all who have posted kind words about Adorama. Of course, mistakes happen in any organization, but if you ever experience a problem - or simply have a query regarding an order from Adorama, please don't hesitate to contact me directly: helen.oster@adoramacamera.com


Sincerely

*Helen Oster*
*Adorama Camera Customer Service Ambassador*


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## manaheim (Oct 12, 2008)

Oof.  So no photography equipment from Adorama for a bit either.

Shoot.  Adorama also owes me a backorder on something. 

*Chris starts researching all of his vendors to find ones that don't close for religious holidays.*


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## KD5NRH (Oct 12, 2008)

HelenOster said:


> You need to be aware that many businesses owned by Orthodox Jews will be closed from the 14th - 22nd October for the holiday of Sukkot / Succos, (closing early on 13th). We really do appreciate your understanding that this is a special time of year for us.



Odd...it's not listed properly on my calendar-of-every-holiday-known-to-any-religion-or-government-on-the-face-of-the-earth-and-maybe-a-few-other-planets.  I shall have to complain to the publisher.

Are you still using the special teleportation device that allows me to receive something on Saturday after ordering it late Wednesday evening and using standard shipping?  If so, I could probably still place an order on the 14th and get it sooner than expected.  :mrgreen:

Seriously, though, I couldn't get a letter across town that fast consistently, but I rarely have time to really get anxious for my Adorama orders to show up.


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## henryp (Oct 13, 2008)

O|||||||O said:


> I was going to order a new lens next week...  I just looked at their holiday schedule, they're going to be closed almost the whole month.  I'll probably just wait and still order from them (everything else was from B&H), but it is a little disappointing that I won't get my new toy as soon.


We appreciate and regret that our schedule inconveniences you (or anyone else here). We're closed from 1:00pm Oct 13th through Wed Oct 22nd and reopen at 9:00am Thur Oct 23rd. I don't think I'd characterize that as _almost the whole month_ but we do appreciate that it's an inconvenience.



FidelCastrovich said:


> The reason B&H don't allow you to even place orders on holidays is because they don't want to tempt Jews who are not as strict to go on their site/use a computer/make a financial transaction or in any way break the rules of said holiday.


If the holiday observance prohibits engaging in commerce, the prohibition holds no matter who the customer is. 



FidelCastrovich said:


> Jews are a crazy nation.


A Jew is a person who practices the religion Judaism.


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## table1349 (Oct 13, 2008)

henryp said:


> We appreciate and regret that our schedule inconveniences you (or anyone else here). We're closed from 1:00pm Oct 13th through Wed Oct 22nd and reopen at 9:00am Thur Oct 23rd. I don't think I'd characterize that as _almost the whole month_ but we do appreciate that it's an inconvenience.



It is refreshing to see a company who puts faith above the all mighty dollar, yen, euro or what ever the currency is in you local. 
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]_Ketivah veChasimah Tovah LeShanah Tovah Tikateivu. __Gut Yontiff!        _


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## shivaswrath (Oct 13, 2008)

i prefer adorama because they aren't closed as often and usually have free shipping offers here and there that I have yet to find on BH. . .


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## Mike_E (Oct 13, 2008)

I do business with both companies and commend both for their integrity!


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## Josh66 (Oct 13, 2008)

henryp said:


> We appreciate and regret that our schedule inconveniences you (or anyone else here). We're closed from 1:00pm Oct 13th through Wed Oct 22nd and reopen at 9:00am Thur Oct 23rd. I don't think I'd characterize that as _almost the whole month_ but we do appreciate that it's an inconvenience.


Yeah, I guess I exaggerated it a little...  I can wait.


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## JerryinToronto (Oct 13, 2008)

chrisburke said:


> yea, it does seem strange that they cant take orders and such, but the reason is because during Yom Kippur the same rules as sabbath appley...All Sabbath-like work restrictions. In addition, there are special restrictions against eating, washing, annointing, marital relations and wearing leather shoes


 
Yom Kippur started on Tuesday night!!  They could have not been closed for that.  BUT, they were probably closed for Shabbat which ends at sundown on Saturday.

J.


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## Bifurcator (Oct 14, 2008)

reg said:


> Other than the fact that "Jews" isn't a nation....
> 
> Real nice.



Actually "jews" are a "nation".  You did an opps. 

nation |&#712;n&#257; sh &#601;n|
noun
a large aggregate of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language.


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## patrickt (Oct 14, 2008)

It's hard to believe that someone who has been on this forum for over three years, posted over 2,000 posts, never knew B&H closed for Jewish holidays.


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## usayit (Oct 14, 2008)

henryp said:


> If the holiday observance prohibits engaging in commerce, the prohibition holds no matter who the customer is.



:thumbup:

Henryp, I just wanted to say that I enjoy each and every visit to B&H.  (although my wallet doesn't )


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## manaheim (Oct 14, 2008)

patrickt said:


> It's hard to believe that someone who has been on this forum for over three years, posted over 2,000 posts, never knew B&H closed for Jewish holidays.


 
It's hard to believe someone who has been on this forum for perhaps a month with under 200 posts has the audacity to publicly judge another member of this community.

Ok, now your turn!

:lmao:


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## Big Mike (Oct 14, 2008)

Religion and politics are two topics that are not allowed on the forum...for reasons that should be obvious.  

This thread has touched on both and I think it has long since answered the question posted by the person who started it.


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