# Mix And Match Lights



## smoke665 (Mar 16, 2018)

Is it possible to mix lights from different manufacturers? I use wireless triggers so that's not an issue, but what else should I be aware of?


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## Braineack (Mar 16, 2018)

the light colors could be off from each other, so it may cause WB issues.  But you can have the same issue with different brand modifiers that use different diffuser panels.


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## smoke665 (Mar 16, 2018)

Braineack said:


> the light colors could be off from each other,



That could be either good or bad depending on the intent. I've seen some fantastic images where they utilized the color differences between strobe and continuous lights.


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## tirediron (Mar 16, 2018)

It shouldn't be the end of the world; you may find you have to set a slightly off colour temp to get a correct WB, but I have often used Nikon speedlights in conjunction with my Speedotron heads when I need a bit of light in an odd location.


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## adamhiram (Mar 16, 2018)

I am hardly an expert here, but I opted for a homogenous lighting setup primarily for the remote power control.  I had some concerns with differences in color temperature or varying output power, but mostly I just got tired of having to reach inside soft boxes or lower light stands to change power settings.  Of course there's a big difference between using what you have and buying additional lights when you're talking about more expensive studio strobes and not just $65 manual speed lights.


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## Derrel (Mar 17, 2018)

Some flash tubes are the so-called "color-corrected" ones or "UV coated", depending on the marketing-speak of the flash manufacturer, and the ones I've used (from Speedotron) have a very faint yellowish tinge to them, while their normal-grade flashtubes are perfectly clear, colorless glass.

Some folks claim that it's nifty to light portrait subjects with the UV-corrected or 'warm', color-corrected flashtubes, and to then light the backdrop using non-UV coated (also called 'uncoated' flashtubes), slightly cooler flashtubes.

In Speedotron Black Line, and Brown Line, I've found that there is a pretty noticeable difference in color rendering between their UV-coated and their "plain", non-coated flash tubes.

You should have no worries mixing studio flash brands, as far as the flashes firing and working right. One issue though might be a very big difference in WYSIWYG modeling light power throwing you off on your setups if you're working by visual means. Some flash units have very bright,powerful quartz-halogen modeling lamps, like Speedotron Black Line with intensely bright 250 Watt quartz-halogen lamps, or higher-end Brown Line units (M11 or M11-Q) with 150 Watt quartz-halogen lamps; others use 100 Watt quartz-halogen bulbs, while others use a single, pretty dim 35 Watt night-light type incandescent bulb, while another model uses  a trio of 35 Watt incandescent bulbs; some more modern lights use LED arrays, and so on, so if you have a range of different modeling lamps that represent different levels of actual flash output power, WYSIWYG might not be exactly What You See Is What You Get!

If you have a 400 Watt-second flash that uses say, a 150 Watt quartz-halogen lamp to represent 400 W-s, visually that modeling light is gonna be VERY bright compared to say, a 25 Watt, power-saving, LED array that represents another brand's 400 Watt-second monolight's full power output...one's gonna' look VERY bright...the other one not so much, so your _*visual estimation*_ of the power could easily be skewed. Then there's also the variable modeling light output: is it simple, like just* High* and *Low?*, or does the modeling lamp output "track" the light's flash output level in a so-called "proportional modeling light" mode? or is it simply user-settable across a range from High to Low?

How much heat does the modeling lamp generate? Some modeling lamps generate a LOT of heat if the light has a honeycomb grid added, or if used with a snoot...high-temp quartz lamps really ought to be used enclosed only with fan-cooled flash heads, IMO. However...bright, high-output quart-halogen modeling lights make it EASY to see exactly where a gridded hair light or accent light is aimed. When a tight grid like a 7- or 10-degree is used with other high-output modeling lights, using a dim-Watt lamp can make "seeing" the light very challenging.

I use box-and-cable flash units, where the power adjustment is done at the power pack, which is on the ground, so there's absolutely no need to reach up and "get at" the flash heads.

Last issue is, "How compatible are my accessories?" It can be a PITA to have "extra" lights that use a different accessory fit than the main lighting gear's brand. Some flash accessories are brand-specific, while others are pretty much universal, so make sure that the normal and Plus-one sized reflectors are the same size...like say 5-inch and then 7-inch, or 7-inch, and then 11-inch, and 16-inch, or whatever.

I dunno...I think those would be the main things, and then there's expense level, as in how many lights per $500 spent? That is where Speedotron Brown Line is really affordable, but it's low-tech and old-school,and many people want more control and more-incremental power control, so they prefer monolights, or higher-tech box and cable systems with more-fancy features,like Black Line packs. Speedlights are pretty slooooow to recycle compared to studio flash units, and a number of light-shaping tools that many people want to use are not as good, nor as easy to fit on, to speedlights are they are to "real" studio flash units, and the can not shoot for very long at higher power before they get very hot, or even damaged. I personally think that brand-on-brand is, all things considered, ideal,and in the long run maybe more economical when you start adding up accessory sets like grids and gel-holders and diffusers and reflectors and speedrings,etc.. Less duplication, more sharing,similar model lights, similar or at least compatible recycle times,etc..


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## mrca (Mar 17, 2018)

I have mixed strobe with fresnel hot lights.  Fresnels warm, strobe cool.  You can gel to correct or embrace the difference and go to a different color.  Mixing strobes or modifiers can have some difference.   Consider using a color checker passport to nail the skin tone then let the rest fall where they may.  One of my favorite  images it the scene in Girl with a Pearl earring where she is standing next to the open window in Vermeer's studio.  The shadow side has a barely detectable warmth.  Gorgeous. Sera got an academy award for his lighting of that movie.


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## smoke665 (Mar 17, 2018)

@Derrel you bring up a valid point on accessories. I can buy universal, or adaptor rings for my Bee's but that's an additional expense. Having to deal with multiple adaptors for other brand lights could become a nightmare. 

I don't use the modeling lights past the initial aiming and while they are proportional, I can't see much unless the power is turned up anyhow.


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## Designer (Mar 17, 2018)

smoke665 said:


> Is it possible to mix lights from different manufacturers? I use wireless triggers so that's not an issue, but what else should I be aware of?


I am not aware of how various manufacturers spec. their lights' colors.  You might get by with using different lights, providing they're not set to the lowest settings.  At the lower power settings, some lights have markedly different color.  In the mid range, they should all be fairly close. 



smoke665 said:


> Braineack said:
> 
> 
> > the light colors could be off from each other,
> ...


Dramatic color differences can be artistically interesting, but if you are talking about a very slight difference, then it just looks wrong.



smoke665 said:


> @Derrel you bring up a valid point on accessories. I can buy universal, or adaptor rings for my Bee's but that's an additional expense. Having to deal with multiple adaptors for other brand lights could become a nightmare.


That is the biggest hurdle to get over.  There are some mounting systems that seem to have taken the lead in standardization, so try to get mounts that all use the same mounting system.


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## Derrel (Mar 17, 2018)

smoke665 said:


> @Derrel you bring up a valid point on accessories. I can buy universal, or adaptor rings for my Bee's but that's an additional expense. Having to deal with multiple adaptors for other brand lights could become a nightmare.
> 
> I don't use the modeling lights past the initial aiming and while they are proportional, I can't see much unless the power is turned up anyhow.



I'm a bit surprised that you don't use the modeling lights all of the time, while shooting. For me, the modeling lights do two things: they keep the iris of the eyes closed down, avoiding dark that _iris-wide-open-eyebal-look_ rendering (in which a human's eye looks similar to that of a dog or cow), and also providing continuous feedback as to how the subject is placed/standing/looking in relation to the lights. But then, if you say you cannot see much unless the power is turned up, then perhaps the Alien Bee's have somewhat lower-powered modeling lights compared to what I'm using. In my systems, I have 250 and 150 Watt quartz lamps, which are very bright, indeed, and I have some M90 heads with 3 x 25 Watt bulbs per head which are much,much dimmer and do not cause "eye burn" like the Quartz lamps can if looked at undiffused.

The thing is, with 250 or 150 Watt quartz modeling lights, you can actually use those brilliant lights for video, or for stills, and can drag the shutter and get some warmth from the quartz, if desired, at slow speeds or at higher ISO values,or both. But with my low-Watt modeling light heads, I can use them on my Innovatronix Explorer sine wave inverter and battery, and not draw much current, and they run cool,and are low-cost bulbs, but they do not really "show up" very much, because, well, they are not really all that bright even on High, and on Low power or on Asymmetrical power distribution, they'e quite dim.

I have a lot of Speedotron Brown Line packs and heads, bought over decades,and newer Black Line packs and heads. If you want low-cost,rugged,simple flash units, these box-and-cable units offer a Speedotron Universal Mount on Black Line 100-and 200- and Brown Line 11-series flash heads. A used Brown Line D402 power pack with 4 outlets and three to four flash heads is like $275-$350 on eBay, all day long. Typical flashtube power is up to 1,200 Watt-seconds on better tubes, 400 W-s on standard-grade tubes.


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## smoke665 (Mar 17, 2018)

Derrel said:


> I'm a bit surprised that you don't use the modeling lights all of the time



When I first place the lights I do, but after that I rarely do, because of the heat build up. I can switch from proportional to full on by pushing a button (which gets hot quick), so since I can't really see much on proportional anyhow I just flip them off after I've placed them. I don't do a lot of portraits other then the kids and Sadie, but I'll have to remember that about the eyes, in the event I start doing more.


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## Braineack (Mar 17, 2018)

Led modeling lights...


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## mrca (Mar 18, 2018)

Smoke, Einsteins have 250 watt modeling lights.  I keep the modeling light on the main so I can see what is happening with the shadows.  I shoot in a nearly blacked out studio so the only lights are the modeling lights.  If you have minimal light, the pupils get too large for my  taste.   By adjusting the power of the modeling lights, I get the exact size pupil I like and have plenty of iris to work with in post.   With battery packs, I only turn the modeling lights on to set up then turn them off.


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## smoke665 (Mar 18, 2018)

mrca said:


> I shoot in a nearly blacked out studio



This may be part of the difference. I have to set up either in a great room with a wall of windows, or walk out basement garage with lots of windows. Getting a darkened room is difficult at any time other than night. I've tried to convince the DW that a stand alone cabin could double as both a guest house and studio, but she hasn't bought into the idea yet. LOL


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## JBPhotog (Mar 27, 2018)

In most lighting scenarios one is less likely to be using the same modifier(caveat) on each flash head. The caveat is a metal reflector. Anything besides metal induces colour to the actual light output. For example, I could take all my heads with the same metal reflector and they would be very close in Kelvin but swapping one out with a modifier like one of my Chimera softboxes and now the colour temp has shifted, warmer in this case. The age of a modifier such as a soft box can also yellow over time. 

Ultimately there are gels to balance out colour temps, including UV gels if the flash tubes are not corrected, if one wants to go to that extent and if it matters in the end result.


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