# Upgrading Soon to Nikon FX Format 810 (or 750?)



## kdthomas (Oct 8, 2014)

Hopefully soon I will start seriously thinking about upgrading my D3200 to either a D810 or maybe a D750. I need help making this decision.

And I know the rule about glass before bodies ... and I know gear will not make me a better photographer. But I get the feeling an FX is in order to start getting to the next level (am I wrong here?)

I see myself mainly being (maybe) semi-pro, shooting studio portraits, weddings, some creative stuff on location, product photography. Money's not too big a deal, but I want to at least try to spend it wisely  e.g., the $1k difference in the two bodies could mean a really good lens, or lighting equipment.

I want to tether to Lightroom, and I really want razor-sharp images. Most important: I don't want to be in some aw-gee-you-got-an-xxx-camera-body-and-those-cant-do-that type of situation. Then I'll have to *hack*. I don't want to *hack*. I hate *hacking*. I want a good, proper tool that keeps me from having to *hack* in the first place, unless I absolutely have to.


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## astroNikon (Oct 8, 2014)

what's your total budget ?
I ask that because you already said you can't buy BOTH the d750 ad d8x0 .. so there is limited funds there.

But for absolute detail I think the d810 would be better with the lenses to go with it (more money)


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## tirediron (Oct 8, 2014)

Two very different bodies with two very different purposes (and prices).  I can't comment on the tethering; hopefully someone else will chime in, but for studio work and the rest of what you describe, money not being an issue, I would strongly recommend the D810.  It's not a rapid-sequence or action body; the buffer fills up relatively quickly, and the FPS rate isn't what a lot of people consider fast, but it's a beautiful body for shooting when you have the luxury of time.  That said, you're not going to want to waste it's ability on an 18-55 kit lens; you need to be into the 'gold-ring' glass to make the most of it, so there's that expense to consider as well.


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## D-B-J (Oct 8, 2014)

D810.  You won't regret it.  The files that camera produces are stunning, and only surpassed by medium format.  That being said, there's still little info out on the D750.. but if your goal is sharpness, get the D810 and an 85 1.8G. You CAN'T beat the sharpness of that combo.  And the lens isn't that sharp.  Just be aware of the file sizes and have GOOD quality cards to match, and you'll be set. 

Do it. 

Now. 

Right.

Now.


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## goodguy (Oct 8, 2014)

D-B-J said:


> D810.  You won't regret it.  The files that camera produces are stunning, and only surpassed by medium format.  That being said, there's still little info out on the D750.. but if your goal is sharpness, get the D810 and an 85 1.8G. You CAN'T beat the sharpness of that combo.  And the lens isn't that sharp.  Just be aware of the file sizes and have GOOD quality cards to match, and you'll be set.
> 
> Do it.
> 
> ...


D810, better then the D750, just the lack of AA filter would already make me consider the D810 over the D750 and also the back focusing button.


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## kdthomas (Oct 8, 2014)

Hmmm leaning toward the D810 and probably more lenses (wheee!) ... the frame-rate is not a biggie. I definitely will not be doing sports/action photography.


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## snerd (Oct 8, 2014)

kdthomas said:


> Hmmm leaning toward the D810 and probably more lenses (wheee!) ....


Lucky dawg!!


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## Solarflare (Oct 9, 2014)

The outsides might be very different, but Autofocus sensor and Metering are basically the same, and the sensors are both from Sony and top notch.

So in sheer image quality, its really just 24 Megapixel with AA-filter vs 36 Megapixel without AA-filter.

From the ergonomics, I would definitely prefer the D750:
- flipscreen
- real mode dial for fast access, including U1/U2 quick access of user configurations
- smaller, more lightweight
- Builtin WiFi

The main feature I miss compared to the D810 here is the much more silent shutter of the later.

And yes, good glas obviously needs to be a priority for good results. For BOTH cameras.



P.s.: Oh, and one can definitely shoot action with the D810. Works very well, except for low fps.


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## jaomul (Oct 9, 2014)

I would like a d810, but 24mp is loads. Aa filters were in almost every dslr until lately so probably only really matters if zooming in at 100%. Most people don't look at photos like that.

From your post I say a d750 or even a d610. As good as the d810 is I believe that the 24mp chip performs a little better at higher iso (you mention weddings). 

Realistically, if you need 1/8000the shutter speed over 1/4000, or a 1/250 flash sync over 1/200 your decision is made for you.

There are many other differences and if you said I love taking shots for myself I'd recommend a d810, but your buying a tool to serve a work purpose.


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## Vince.1551 (Oct 9, 2014)

Agree with Solar on the 5fps. No problem with sports and I noticed people kept lamenting about 5fps is too slow. Yes it's slower then many other cameras(regardless of mpx). And no, you don't need 30fps to do sports. 5fps is enough. We kept talking about how important is good technique. Yes, with good technique you can even do sports at 3fps. 


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## ronlane (Oct 9, 2014)

I'm using the canon system but I will say that the D810 reviews that I have seen have made me consider switching to Nikon gear. (Until Canon announced the 7D mark II).

The low light capabilities of the D810 from what I saw were awesome.


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## Vince.1551 (Oct 9, 2014)

And btw to OP. D800e should be sufficient for you. Sharpness is no less then the D810 and seemingly more refined when viewed at 100%


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## DevC (Oct 9, 2014)

kdthomas said:


> Hopefully soon I will start seriously thinking about upgrading my D3200 to either a D810 or maybe a D750. I need help making this decision.
> 
> And I know the rule about glass before bodies ... and I know gear will not make me a better photographer. But I get the feeling an FX is in order to start getting to the next level (am I wrong here?)
> 
> ...


The only realistic thing that keeps the D750 as a limitation is the 1/8000 shutter speed, and in  all honesty, that is no limitiation at all. THE AA filter is annoying, but you can live through it. AS you do know, that 1k could be better off spent on glass. Get the 750 and get some of nikons trinity glass. You won't regret it.


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## kdthomas (Oct 9, 2014)

OK, one more thing 



D-B-J said:


> ... and an 85 1.8G. You CAN'T beat the sharpness of that combo ...



D-B-J do you mean this one: Nikon 85mm f/1.4G IF AF-S Nikkor Lens - Nikon U.S.A. Warranty 2195
Nikon SKU 2195

Ken Rockwell raves about this lens, and I tend to give a bit of weight to his opinion. I really would like to nail my research on this one.


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## D-B-J (Oct 9, 2014)

kdthomas said:


> OK, one more thing
> 
> 
> 
> ...




No! That's a lot more expensive, heavier, slower to focus, and is said to be not nearly as sharp wide open as the 1.8G. That's ONE POINT EIGHT. For $500 it's one of the BEST bargains Nikon has to offer. Truly.


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## Derrel (Oct 9, 2014)

When the D750 came out, I was one of the few people that said, "This sounds awesome! What a great feature set!" Most other people were poo-poo'ing the D750. But now, people are realizing that the D750 is one of the best-balanced and well-equipped cameras for the majority of shooters. Thom Hogan's recent column sort of compared the D750 versus the D810. The problem with the opinions of people like Thom relates to their status-seeking and high-end equipment lists. For people who have multiple multiples of high-end RAID drive enclosures, and basically, unlimited storage capability, 36 MP raw files are just a case of spending a few thousand dollars more per year on storage, for the rest of their careers.

The same mentality allows them to shoot with 400/2.8 and 200-400 f/4 lenses and so on. Landscape/wildlife shooting places a premium on MAXIMUM data capture. If you have 24 terabytes of drive space on each of eight RAID enclosures, who cares about file storage, right? But, if you use a real computer, with a normal-size internal drive and a pair of more-mortal external back-up drives, what you end up doing is filling up the internal drive rapidly, and then constantly find yourself saying to yourself, " I need to offload this chit,now! Hard drive's full again!"

Products? 36MP is not much better than 24 MP, if at all. Why? Most product shots are done at CLOSE distances, which means a physically small area, which can be recorded adequately on 24 million pixels, AND since you need to use small f/stops to get the desired depth of field, diffraction renders a 36MP sensor basically not any better than a 24 MP sensor at f/11 to f/32, which is where you'll end up shooting many product shots with a macro lens.

Weddings? 36 million pixels is NOT needed for most frames, and be aware, the sRAW of the D810 is not raw data!!! It has already been tone-curved, and is highly-compromised data. Again, the sRAW option *is not really RAW* data!!!

I would say, spend the extra $1,000 on some monolights, a pair of recessed-front, grid-equipped made in China softboxes, a pair of umbrella boxes, and some 20 and 40 degree grid and barn doors. And some books on how to do lighting.


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## DevC (Oct 9, 2014)

Derrel said:


> The same mentality allows them to shoot with 400/2.8 and 200-400 f/4 lenses and so on. Landscape/wildlife shooting places a premium on MAXIMUM data capture. If you have 24 terabytes of drive space on each of eight RAID enclosures, who cares about file storage, right? But, if you use a real computer, with a normal-size internal drive and a pair of more-mortal external back-up drives, what you end up doing is filling up the internal drive rapidly, and then constantly find yourself saying to yourself, " I need to offload this chit,now! Hard drive's full again!"


Only if you pixel peep.

24mp is quite exquisite for landscapes


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## Derrel (Oct 9, 2014)

Solarflare said:
			
		

> - real mode dial for fast access, including U1/U2 quick access of user configurations



Don't forget, an all-new dedicated VIDEO MENU page on the D750! Much better nod to video, and according to those who shoot video a lot, like the videographer that films all of the segments for The Camera Store, the D750 is now the video leader among FX d-slr's, having bypassed the Canon 5D-III and all others in video.

But back to why I quoted Solarflare:* the U1 and U2 positions on the mode dial: I would LOVE to have this "amateur" feature on my Nikon* FX camera. I mean it; this is a valuable feature that would allow the camera to be be custom-configured for weddings/events in a Mode 1 configuration for ambient light in U1, and then when you add the second item, the FLASH, you'd switch to U2, since there are two pieces of gear, the body and the flash. The optimal way to configure the camera in bright light, or low light, or with flash, is NOT the same. *There are many scenarios where a wildly-different set of ISO value, tone curve,shutter, and aperture and flash/no flash are, all five, in need of radically different settings *from the standard approach.

If you like Nikon's AMAZING AUTO ISO feature, which is actually useful and usable in the new, FX Nikon bodies, but also like to shoot fill-flash, where AUTO ISO is a liability, this would make a HUGE difference to me. More and more over these past few months, I have begun to shoot a mix of auto ISO and fill-flash, and it is a PITA because I need to manually reconfigure all the time. A mishap here, made under pressure, can be costly.

If you want to have an INDOOR and an OUTDOOR custom pre-configuration, the U1 and U2 mode option of the D750 makes that easy and reliable. Of course, many people use only 5% of their cameras' capabilities and technology, so many people will not understand the value of U1 and U2. But considering how 'effed-up Nikon's current "banks" setting system is (mostly useless in real world scenarios), I honestly think that the U1 and U2 option ought to be made the new standard going forward, on ALL Nikon d-slrs.


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## sleist (Oct 9, 2014)

Buy glass.
New glass is so much more fun.
It's like buying new eyes.


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## zutty (Oct 9, 2014)

Here are two examples, one with the D610 and one with the D810. Both are amazing for landscapes and detail is super sharp on both. My opinion is to get the D610 and buy trinity glass with the rest of the dough.


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## Vince.1551 (Oct 10, 2014)

Though it's not safe to gauge image over the internet yet based on the photos here the shot taken by D810 carries more details. 


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## PaulWog (Oct 10, 2014)

1000 more worth of glass is 1000 more regardless of how you look at it. That's nearly a Tamron 24-70, a sigma 50 1.4 art, part of a 70-200 f2.8... Money put towards a Tamron 15-30, or a 105 macro... Etc... Or extra flashes, lighting equipment... I would buy the d750.

But...then there's croppability on the d810 for something like a wedding. It's almost like an FX camera with a built in fully functional dx camera, given the dx mp count.

The main difference is those mp's... Is that mp jump worth 1000 to you? Will all your lenses be able to resolve the extra megapixels? And do you care about the aa filter difference in practice.


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## shadowlands (Oct 10, 2014)

I sold my D300 and D700 in favor of a D800, and I'm thrilled.


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## kdthomas (Oct 10, 2014)

Derrel said:


> Weddings? 36 million pixels is NOT needed for most frames, and be aware, the sRAW of the D810 is not raw data!!! It has already been tone-curved, and is highly-compromised data. Again, the sRAW option *is not really RAW* data!!!



OK, but the raw files from the D810 *are* actual RAW files, correct? I don't want to pay and extra $1k for degraded image files.


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## Derrel (Oct 10, 2014)

Yes, the full-sized D810 NEF files are raw. Here is Thom's article "*The sRAW Myth"*, The sRaw Myth | byThom | Thom Hogan

The gist of which he summarizes at the start as this:

"For those not wanting to read far, here’s the bottom line: Nikon’s sRaw files (D4s and D810) are basically equivalent to something like 11-bit JPEGs. To be clear:


You get fewer bits of data
You get lossy compression of data
You get color data that is compromised, particularly in the shadows
The data is YCbCr (a color model), not raw data or even RGB"


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## kdthomas (Oct 10, 2014)

OK, so with the D810 I'm spending an extra $1k to get ~10 extra MP, 1/8000 shutter speed, HDR bracketing, and I lose the convenient U1/U2 button, but I can use the settings banks as a (kludgey) workaround for this. Am I getting close?

I've been looking at the controls & manuals and I think I may like the D810's controls a bit better.


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## Vince.1551 (Oct 10, 2014)

Instead of U1/U2 you get customizable shooting menus. 


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## crimbfighter (Oct 10, 2014)

I'm with Darrel on this one. Shooting with my D800, the file size is annoyingly large, and unless you're regularly cropping huge amounts of the image off, or printing 10 feet wide, 36mp is excessive. 24 is plenty. I actually know a pro who is now using his new D750 as his primary body, and he resigned his D3s's to backup bodies for weddings because he loves it so much.

Even the slower max shutter speed and lack of AF on button can be worked around most of the time. The AF/AE lock button can be programmed for AF on and unless you're constantly shooting with huge apertures in bright light or very fast moving objects, most situations don't need 1/8000 sec. I certainly concede there are times when certain pro-level features are handy, but all in all, the D750 is a really nice, capable body, that will probably suit almost every situation the OP described without issue, and still leave you enough money to get some nice glass.


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## chuasam (Oct 12, 2014)

What kind of computer do you have? I have a D810. The file sizes are breathtakingly huge.


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## Derrel (Oct 12, 2014)

Vince.1551 said:


> Instead of U1/U2 you get customizable shooting menus.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Yeah, you get 4 shooting menus and 4 settings banks. The entire 4 x 4 banks + settings menus thing is a f*****g MESS. It's a system that sucks. Big-time sucks. With U1 and U2, you get TOP-deck, dial-mounted pre-set positions that can be accessed INSTANTLY with  full memory of all settings. The 4 menus + 4 banks system blows. The two systems are not even remotely comparable: the D750 system is better. It's also used in the Canon 5D Mark II because the separate, simple system is the better system than a mixture of 4 + 4, which has soooo many possible permutations that it basically becomes almost useless. When one has four settings options, which are depended on getting the exact right corresponding settings menus right, both ways! the chance for a royal screw-up,at any time, is very high.


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## D-B-J (Oct 12, 2014)

kdthomas said:


> OK, so with the D810 I'm spending an extra $1k to get ~10 extra MP, 1/8000 shutter speed, HDR bracketing, and I lose the convenient U1/U2 button, but I can use the settings banks as a (kludgey) workaround for this. Am I getting close?
> 
> I've been looking at the controls & manuals and I think I may like the D810's controls a bit better.



You might wanna go hold both. I held the D750 at best buy... It's small. It's not nearly as comfortable as the D8x0 series. I was worried I'd be upset that I got a D800 instead of waiting for the D750, but I am not. At all.


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## Vince.1551 (Oct 12, 2014)

Derrel said:


> Vince.1551 said:
> 
> 
> > Instead of U1/U2 you get customizable shooting menus.
> ...


Not sure what are the settings bank. Each shooting menu gives you options to set individually all the a1- ... Options. For example if I set one for studio portrait I'll set the individual option in a-g. So whenever I need that I just select that shooting menu. Not sure how the settings bank come about ...? 


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## Derrel (Oct 12, 2014)

NOBODY is sure what Nikon was thinking when they went to 4 + 4 on the pro Nikons. It's almost totally ******g useless.

Nikon D800 and D800E Custom Setting Menu

"
*Complaints and Organization*

Nikon is pretty sloppy about naming and organizing the menus, sorry.

This menu is also all about shooting, just like the Shooting Menu. It's tricky to remember if something is in the Shooting Menu or the Custom Setting Menu.

I use the D800 and D800E daily and rarely can remember in what menu Nikon has hidden what. I use the My Menu menu for the items I use often.
*
There are four selectable memory locations which store all the settings in this menu. They are called A, B, C and D. You may add your own names to them for convenience. I name my A as KenRockwell.com for my wild color shots, and I call B "Family" for my family shots with normal colors.

Nikon did another bone-headed thing by naming the Shooting Menu Banks A, B, C and D, and then using the same names (A, B, C and D) for these Custom Menu Banks. They should use 1, 2, 3 and 4 for one of them to prevent confusion. Don't worry: I have an engineering degree and patents, and I get confused, too.

There is no "SAVE" command. The bank you have selected is updated immediately as you change settings. If you've never selected one then you've been working in the A bank all along.

You can save names for each, but you can't lock any of these banks. If you have a bank you don't want altered, don't shoot actively with it. Anytime you change anything in the Custom Setting Menu you are changing the settings of whichever bank you have selected. To save a Bank you must work in another, since there's no way to lock them. Nikon confuses us all by letting us save names which stay locked while the settings wander all over the place as we change them in shooting.

I ranted about this back at Shooting Menu Banks.

*
"


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## Derrel (Oct 12, 2014)

The upshot is there is NO SAVE command on the "pro" Nikon bodies!!! On the D750, two,distinct, clearly-labeled 100% complete sets of custom configurations for each and every control option can be saved as  .BIN files and loaded onto a memory card, and transferred to the camera. The U1 and U2 remember ALL the settings of the camera, and those setting can be SAVED, and stored. The Custom Menu Banks A,B,C,and D and the Shooting Menu Banks A,B,C, and D are really just "temporary" settings that are easily overridden, as the controls on the camera are pressed. When you make a change, or three,four, five, or ten changes, you must MANUALLY re-set each and every parameter back to where it is supposed to be. In either one, or both, of the banks!

My D3x uses this same idiotic system, I've had it for two years. My D2x used the same system, I've had it for nine years. In ACTUAL day-to-day shooting, I have never found the split shooting/custom menu "banks" concept to be worth a tinker's damn.

The My Menu (formerly the Recent Items menu, introduced with the D2x in 2004) is one thing, and that was helpful on the old D2x, but with the introduction of the D3 generation, the menus got even more-expansive, and more complicated. Again...the U1 and U2 user pre-sets are FULL, and COMPLETE, and SAVABLE settings groupings that the user can create, set, and SAVE, and even store on a memory card or computer. This is an entirely,entirely different approach than 4 banks and 4 settings banks, each named A,B,C,D, and A,B,C,D. That is the height of stupidity, on multiple levels. The actual usefulness of the "pro-level" bodies has been compromised as far as access to rapid, sure-fire, reliable settings.

Way,way,way too many options, named A,B,C,and D, in TWO separate similarly-named panels? OMFG...there actually is such a thing as *too much complexity for ease of use* and reliability. Driving a car at the minimum requires a steering wheel, gas pedal, brake pedal, and a transmission selector, in most vehicles sold today. Imagine a system with steering wheel A, and steering wheel B, gas pedal A, gas pedal B, brake A and also brake B, and then Transmission A and transmission B;, 

Between the Shooting and Custom banks,I believe on my D3x I went through and counted 163 separate control option possibilities, which I could arrange in 24 separate, 4-letter A-B bank combo sets. And of course, if I make ANY adjustments, the "sets" I THOUGHT I had developed are......instantly deleted, never save-able...never store-able...

Pretty much useless.


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## Vince.1551 (Oct 12, 2014)

I get your point on the saving part but honestly just keep it simple. 1 shooting bank with just 1 custom menu then you have U1 to U4. Personally I've never used any of the U1/U2 on my D610 nor have I used the custom shooting banks on the D810. I've never saw a need so far. I've never reached a point where I couldn't ready the camera's basic setup for a shoot but that's just me. 


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