# New freelancing, suggestions please



## smurf4t (May 12, 2012)

Hi. I'm new to all of this. I take a pretty good photo and am relatively good at photoshop. I have a 60d canon, tripod, wide angel, 50mm 1:8, 70-200 f4L, lens, remote, external flash. What other kit should I get?? 

I'll mainly be doing lifestyle , portrait photography of children and families. I have been asked to do product photography. - Of large items such as fish tank cupboards. What lighting would you use?


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## Trever1t (May 13, 2012)

WTH?

Where's my popcorn?


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## cgipson1 (May 13, 2012)

smurf4t said:


> Hi. I'm new to all of this. I take a pretty good photo and am relatively good at photoshop. I have a 60d canon, tripod, *wide angel*, 50mm 1:8, 70-200 f4L, lens, remote, external flash. What other kit should I get??
> 
> I'll mainly be doing lifestyle , portrait photography of children and families. I have been asked to do product photography. - Of large items such as fish tank cupboards. What lighting would you use?



*Wide Angel?* Is that like an Obese Heavenly Being?


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## KmH (May 13, 2012)

Lets cover some basics.

Constant lights are ambient lighting, and exposure is controlled normally. Constant lights have to be pretty powerful if shutter speeds less than 1 second will be used. A 500 watt constant light delivers the 500 Watts over 1 second, so if a shutter speed of 1/100 is used only 1/100th of the 500 watts, 5 watts, can be used to make a 1/100 of a second exposure.

Strobe light (flash) exposure is controlled using the lens aperture, while the exposure of any ambient light in the scene is controlled with the shutter speed.
Strobed light is delivered in a fairly short period of time. A hot shoe speedlight delivers a full power flash in about 1/1000 of a second. Consequently, strobed light can be used to stop motion in lieu of relying on shutter speed to stop motion.
Studio type monolights are more powerdul than hot shoe flash units and usually deliver a full power flash in a somewhat longer period of time, 1/500 of a second or so.

Both hot shoe speedlights and studio monolights are apparently small light sources. Small light sources deliver harsh light and sharp shadow edges. Most portrait, lifestyle, product photography is done using soft light and diffuse shadow edges, which require modifying the light source so it is apparently very much larger. Various sizes of photographic umbrellas, brollyboxes, softboxes, diffusion panels, scrims. flags, etc. are needed to accommodate the various setups needed.


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## KmH (May 13, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> *Wide Angel?* Is that like an Obese Heavenly Being?


Relax. :er:  It's likely just a typographical error.


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## tirediron (May 13, 2012)

smurf4t said:


> Hi. I'm new to all of this. *I take a pretty good photo* and *am relatively good at photoshop*...


By whose definition?  If it's a friend, relative, or family member, ignore it.  Have you actually received accolades for your work from someone who doesn't know you, but does have photographic knowledge?


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## Derrel (May 13, 2012)

I would buy a Tamron 17-50mm f/2.8 zoom lens. And I would actually spend MOST of my spare money and or time on Photoshop training books or lessons, and also spend some serious time working on a business plan. I would suggest that I put those steps in reverse order of importance. Kind of like a riddle or puzzle...I do not think more "gear" is what you need, but instead more business-side prep and planning. You could easily buy another $25,000 worth of great gear, but if the business side can't get into first, then second, then third, and finally into fourth gear, you'll be left at the starting line, just revving the engine...


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## imagemaker46 (May 13, 2012)

tirediron said:


> smurf4t said:
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> > Hi. I'm new to all of this. *I take a pretty good photo* and *am relatively good at photoshop*...
> ...



I like what you have said here tirediron, all very true. I know lots of people that take "a pretty good photo" does this mean that you are going freelance as a full time photographer based on taking a pretty good photo?


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## jamesbjenkins (May 13, 2012)

tirediron said:


> smurf4t said:
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> > Hi. I'm new to all of this. *I take a pretty good photo* and *am relatively good at photoshop*...
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+1.

"Pretty good photo" coming from a family member or friend probably means it belongs in the trashcan if anyone is paying for that image.  "Relatively good" with Photoshop doesn't mean anything.  You either know how to do what you need to do, or you don't.

OP, KMH's post covers the basics well.  The only product photography I've done is on small items, mostly jewelry.  For that, I use a "light box" for lack of a better term.  It's a homemade thing I made using diffusion panels and speedlights. It does a great job of eliminating unwanted shadows.

Good luck with your blossoming business!


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## smurf4t (May 13, 2012)

KmH said:
			
		

> Lets cover some basics.
> 
> Constant lights are ambient lighting, and exposure is controlled normally. Constant lights have to be pretty powerful if shutter speeds less than 1 second will be used. A 500 watt constant light delivers the 500 Watts over 1 second, so if a shutter speed of 1/100 is used only 1/100th of the 500 watts, 5 watts, can be used to make a 1/100 of a second exposure.
> 
> ...



Thank you so much. Clearly I need to rethink things. Not sure I might do this now. Sounds like it might be overly difficult to photograph for an amateur.


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## smurf4t (May 13, 2012)

Derrel said:
			
		

> I would buy a Tamron 17-50mm f/2.8 zoom lens. And I would actually spend MOST of my spare money and or time on Photoshop training books or lessons, and also spend some serious time working on a business plan. I would suggest that I put those steps in reverse order of importance. Kind of like a riddle or puzzle...I do not think more "gear" is what you need, but instead more business-side prep and planning. You could easily buy another $25,000 worth of great gear, but if the business side can't get into first, then second, then third, and finally into fourth gear, you'll be left at the starting line, just revving the engine...



Thanks Derrel. I want to start off slow and build my business slowly. I could easily buy LOADS of gear. But from what I got you think a good 17-50mm is still a must for my kit? Should I get any other must have kits? Agreed on lessons, I could do more of those.


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## smurf4t (May 13, 2012)

imagemaker46 said:
			
		

> I like what you have said here tirediron, all very true. I know lots of people that take "a pretty good photo" does this mean that you are going freelance as a full time photographer based on taking a pretty good photo?



It would be based on me having a passion and love for photography. I've been working on my photography for a while. I've had a few people ask me to take pictures for them for a fee. And now I want to branch out a bit more one bit at a time.


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## smurf4t (May 13, 2012)

Trever1t said:
			
		

> WTH?
> 
> Where's my popcorn?



???


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## imagemaker46 (May 13, 2012)

smurf4t said:


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When another amateur comes along and makes a statement regardless of how vague, making a claim that they are ready to challenge the world of professional photography this forum usually turns into a overwhelming display of drama.  It really doesn't matter that 99% are amateurs, it becomes a land of personal attacks.  In my case, as one of the few professionals I usually just speak my mind, and always end up pissing someone off because they disagree with my views, and that adding photographer or photography doesn't turn an amateur into a sudden professional. If they start their bios off with "I have always had a passion for photography and have been told I have a good eye for pictures" It usually means that they are still, and always will be amateurs.


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## KmH (May 13, 2012)

Photography is not anywhere close to doing rocket science, but photography has both artistic and techncial aspects that have to be learned to do photography consistantly well.

Then there is the issue of having a photography business, where -  marketing, promotion, bookkeeping, salemanship, product developement, client relations, client service, legal considerations like contracts, copyright, model/property releases, delivery memo's, business, use, and sales taxes all come into play.


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## Trever1t (May 13, 2012)

smurf4t said:


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Like so many before you, putting the cart before the horse...usually ends in a bloody accident. 

Too many people think that because they can take a decent picture they should go pro. Stick around you can see for yourself.


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## o hey tyler (May 13, 2012)

How many images do you have in your portfolio to show potential clients?


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## smurf4t (May 14, 2012)

imagemaker46 said:
			
		

> When another amateur comes along and makes a statement regardless of how vague, making a claim that they are ready to challenge the world of professional photography this forum usually turns into a overwhelming display of drama.  It really doesn't matter that 99% are amateurs, it becomes a land of personal attacks.  In my case, as one of the few professionals I usually just speak my mind, and always end up pissing someone off because they disagree with my views, and that adding photographer or photography doesn't turn an amateur into a sudden professional. If they start their bios off with "I have always had a passion for photography and have been told I have a good eye for pictures" It usually means that they are still, and always will be amateurs.



Is that not what forums are designed for? To learn and improve your skill sets. Don't you need passion and a keen eye to be a good photographer. Or are all good photographers born with their knowledge, and the rest of us doomed to be nothing but amateurs no matter how much we study the craft ? 
I did say I was new it all - especially forums, that should not open the doors for ridicule, but maybe advice and guidance instead?
 I just feel if professionals are irritated by amateurs then they should not feel obligated to answer a forum posting. Most professionals I've met are amazing teachers and people. So I'm very surprised by all of this. I always thought photographers where happy people ? 

Thank you to everyone who took the time to help me out with my questions. I hope I can learn allot from forums.


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## Steve5D (May 14, 2012)

tirediron said:


> smurf4t said:
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> > Hi. I'm new to all of this. *I take a pretty good photo* and *am relatively good at photoshop*...
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Geez, it's not like he's claiming to be the second coming of Christ.

I don't think it's any great stretch of the imagination to believe that a guy can accurately hold that opinion of himself...


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## Steve5D (May 14, 2012)

smurf4t said:


> Is that not what forums are designed for? To learn and improve your skill sets. Don't you need passion and a keen eye to be a good photographer. Or are all good photographers born with their knowledge, and the rest of us doomed to be nothing but amateurs no matter how much we study the craft ?
> I did say I was new it all - especially forums, that should not open the doors for ridicule, but maybe advice and guidance instead?
> I just feel if professionals are irritated by amateurs then they should not feel obligated to answer a forum posting. Most professionals I've met are amazing teachers and people. So I'm very surprised by all of this. I always thought photographers where happy people ?
> 
> Thank you to everyone who took the time to help me out with my questions. I hope I can learn allot from forums.



You're right. That IS what forums are for (well, some forums).

I'm relatively new to this forum, but not new to photography forums, or forums in general. My experience has shown me that the people who will be overly critical, and the least helpful, will be those so-called "pros" who are pissed because they don't get hired as often as they believe they should be. If you'd have just gone ahead and done the shoot, and then posted some shots asking for critiques, those same people would be telling you that your photos were bad, and that you should've asked for guidance first.

By and large, photographers are a happy bunch. But there are those out there who can only be happy if they're cutting others down. Ignore those people, because they're hardly worth your time...


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## smurf4t (May 14, 2012)

Steve5D said:
			
		

> You're right. That IS what forums are for (well, some forums).
> 
> I'm relatively new to this forum, but not new to photography forums, or forums in general. My experience has shown me that the people who will be overly critical, and the least helpful, will be those so-called "pros" who are pissed because they don't get hired as often as they believe they should be. If you'd have just gone ahead and done the shoot, and then posted some shots asking for critiques, those same people would be telling you that your photos were bad, and that you should've asked for guidance first.
> 
> By and large, photographers are a happy bunch. But there are those out there who can only be happy if they're cutting others down. Ignore those people, because they're hardly worth your time...



Thank you. Clearly you are in the happy group!! Lol


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## orljustin (May 14, 2012)

smurf4t said:


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## smurf4t (May 14, 2012)

Im sorry If you are offended by my posts, please by all means don't feel obligated to write anything. As I said I'm starting up. Trying to learn and grow my skills. Those that would like to help me out, feel free to do so.
FYI-  I'm under no delusion that a good camera makes you a pro ! But hard work, study, asking questions and passion for photography does, so I'm hoping one day I might get there.


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## cgipson1 (May 14, 2012)

smurf4t said:


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I am willing to teach anyone.. except if they are already charging people, and don't have the skills to justify it! That makes them "Professionals" by some definitions... and since most of them deliver a very poor product, they are ripping off their clients. I have a problem with that... and will not "help" this type of person. a "PRO" should not be asking simple, beginner questions! Learn the craft first.. then start charging.... not the other way around!


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## smurf4t (May 14, 2012)

cgipson1 said:
			
		

> I am willing to teach anyone.. except if they are already charging people, and don't have the skills to justify it! That makes them "Professionals" by some definitions... and since most of them deliver a very poor product, they are ripping off their clients. I have a problem with that... and will not "help" this type of person. a "PRO" should not be asking simple, beginner questions! Learn the craft first.. then start charging.... not the other way around!



Just to be clear I've never claimed to be a pro or charged pro prices. I would not feel right charging pro prices and never have as I agree, I'm  NO pro, hence to questions.


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## cgipson1 (May 14, 2012)

smurf4t said:


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The problem is.. that your CLIENTS will assume you are a PRO, even if you don't claim it. That is why I have a problem with it. Good luck!


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## smurf4t (May 14, 2012)

cgipson1 said:
			
		

> The problem is.. that your CLIENTS will assume you are a PRO, even if you don't claim it. That is why I have a problem with it. Good luck!



These people approached me. I didn't approach them. They wanted me to take pictures for them. And I let them decide what they wanted to pay. 

I do see your point of view. As a result in order to mange expectations in the future. I will make it very clear that I'm not a pro to anyone else that asks about my services before I'm fully trained.


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## imagemaker46 (May 14, 2012)

smurf4t said:


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Most amateurs don't see or understand the professional point of view. People approach you and they offer you money to shoot pictures.  Based on your experience and skills, if someone offered you $500 to photograph them would you feel right taking that money. based on the quality of images that you posted?


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## KmH (May 14, 2012)

smurf4t said:


> Is that not what forums are designed for?


No.

Forums are designed as vehicles for selling advertising space.


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## smurf4t (May 14, 2012)

imagemaker46 said:
			
		

> Most amateurs don't see or understand the professional point of view. People approach you and they offer you money to shoot pictures.  Based on your experience and skills, if someone offered you $500 to photograph them would you feel right taking that money. based on the quality of images that you posted?



No I wouldn't feel right. I would never at this point charge that or take that and obviously haven't. I'm not a scam artist. I know my limits and want to build a good reputation. I would never want anyone feeling ripped off.  I do understand that aspect. Hence I'm here to learn and grow.


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## smurf4t (May 14, 2012)

KmH said:
			
		

> No.
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> Forums are designed as vehicles for selling advertising space.



Oh I see ;-). Silly me.


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## Trever1t (May 14, 2012)

First let me say thank you for listening and responding in a mature manner. That alone will go far here. 

I would never say you have no chance of living your dream, how could I? All I am saying is that there are 5 or 7 posts each day by people such as yourself on this forum who state they are going to get or have just bought their first DSLR and now they want to learn how to go "Pro"

It's slightly annoying  

Why not just come in and relax? Sit down, read, say hi!. There's a lot to learn here, get your gear together and hone your skills. Man, I've studied art and been looking through a viewfinder for over 40 years and I know ch1t about photography compared to many members here. 

Again, your attitude is commendable, enjoy the site


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## Steve5D (May 14, 2012)

I don't see a proclamation that the guy thinks he's a pro. He said he takes a pretty good picture. I don't see anything wrong with that. Clearly, though, there are those hyper-sensitive types who need to see a full portfolio before they'll accept that someone can take a "pretty good picture".

I just think that's silly.

I hope the OP is able to weed through the tripe and find some meaningful help which actually addresses his question...


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## tirediron (May 14, 2012)

Steve5D said:


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No it isn't, BUT based on the OP's questions regarding equipment, I suspect that his knowlege is rather limited, therefore, is it likely he can accurately assess his own abilities?  That said, if you care to actually read my post, you will notice that I made no reference to his own opinion of his abilities, but rather to those of family and friends which I recommended he ignore.  I'm sure you're familiar with the concept of Mommy telling everyone that her little Johnny is such a good <whatever>.  This is especially true in photography where the average neophyte thinks that anyone who can focus and expose in a half-decent manner is an expert!


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## imagemaker46 (May 14, 2012)

Steve5D said:


> I don't see a proclamation that the guy thinks he's a pro. He said he takes a pretty good picture. I don't see anything wrong with that. Clearly, though, there are those hyper-sensitive types who need to see a full portfolio before they'll accept that someone can take a "pretty good picture".
> 
> I just think that's silly.
> 
> I hope the OP is able to weed through the tripe and find some meaningful help which actually addresses his question...



I based my opinion on the 4 photos posted. If they were posted, then one can only assume that they are what the OP sees as being the best images, therefore it has nothing to do with wanting to see a full portfolio, when the 4 "best" show a simple lack of quality.


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## tirediron (May 14, 2012)

Steve5D said:


> I don't see a proclamation that the guy thinks he's a pro.


 Per the OP's title, "Freelancing" is not normally an amateur pursuit.  The desire to seek payment for services is, IMO, implicit within that.



Steve5D said:


> He said he takes a pretty good picture. I don't see anything wrong with that. Clearly, though, there are those hyper-sensitive types who need to see a full portfolio before they'll accept that someone can take a "pretty good picture".


 There is NOTHING wrong with taking a pretty good picture, but "pretty good" doesn't normally cut it in the professional (read: "Paid") world.  If you read through the thread carefully, you'll find that most of the advice posted here is aimed at cautioning the OP; essentially "Don't try and run before you learn how walk!".



Steve5D said:


> I just think that's silly.


Fair enough; everyone is entitled to their opinion.


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## Steve5D (May 14, 2012)

imagemaker46 said:


> Steve5D said:
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> > I don't see a proclamation that the guy thinks he's a pro. He said he takes a pretty good picture. I don't see anything wrong with that. Clearly, though, there are those hyper-sensitive types who need to see a full portfolio before they'll accept that someone can take a "pretty good picture".
> ...



I'm not seeing any examples...


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## o hey tyler (May 14, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


> How many images do you have in your portfolio to show potential clients?




Quoting myself to perhaps get a response from the OP.


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## imagemaker46 (May 14, 2012)

Steve5D said:


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Ya that was my goof, got this one mixed up with another one on the forum.


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## Steve5D (May 14, 2012)

tirediron said:


> If you read through the thread carefully, you'll find that most of the advice posted here is aimed at cautioning the OP; essentially "Don't try and run before you learn how walk!"



No, when I read through the thread carefully, what I see are ridiculously unhelpful nuggets like these:




tirediron said:


> Have you actually received accolades for your work from someone who doesn't know you, but does have photographic knowledge?


 


imagemaker46 said:


> By whose definition?  If it's a friend, relative, or family member, ignore it.  Have you actually received accolades for your work from someone who doesn't know you, but does have phtoographic knowledge?





jamesbjenkins said:


> "Pretty good photo" coming from a family member or friend probably means it belongs in the trashcan if anyone is paying for that image.





o hey tyler said:


> How many images do you have in your portfolio to show potential clients?


 


orljustin said:


> ... you come across like every other "just got a camera at best buy, and now I'm a professional photographer!" person that posts here.  I mean, you haven't even read or taught yourself enough to ask a question beyond "What lighting would you use" and "what other kit should I get"?
> 
> I mean, it's kind of laughable.   You should be able to see that.


 
Not a single one of those posts, nor most others, addressed the question that the OP asked, nor were they necessarily helpful in their criticism. Hell, one guy even characterized it as "laughable".

On what planet would _that _be considered "helpful"?


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## smurf4t (May 14, 2012)

o hey tyler said:
			
		

> Quoting myself to perhaps get a response from the OP.



I didn't miss your question, just didn't want to be ripped apart. Allot of people here seem hypercritical. I have about 200 that I'm happy to show clients and I have a good 100 000 (probably more) in my files that I would love to edit and photoshop around with but until now have not had the time. I'm about to free up some time to concentrate on editing some of my thousands of images.


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## HughGuessWho (May 14, 2012)

smurf4t said:


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Some on here will "rip you apart" regardless of how good your work is. But *o hey tyler* and some others will give you good, honest and helpful advice and critique. You just have to be prepared for the "honest" part because it can be painful. However, taken with the right attitude can be extremely helpful.


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## smurf4t (May 14, 2012)

HughGuessWho said:
			
		

> Some on here will "rip you apart" regardless of how good your work is. But o hey tyler and some others will give you good, honest and helpful advice and critique. You just have to be prepared for the "honest" part because it can be painful. However, taken with the right attitude can be extremely helpful.



Good constructive criticism is always welcome. I LOVE honest heartfelt observations on improvement .  But not just being rude because they think they are allowed to be rude - that is just unprofessional  and uncalled for.


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## smurf4t (May 14, 2012)

Steve5D said:
			
		

> No, when I read through the thread carefully, what I see are ridiculously unhelpful nuggets like these:
> 
> Not a single one of those posts, nor most others, addressed the question that the OP asked, nor were they necessarily helpful in their criticism. Hell, one guy even characterized it as "laughable".
> 
> On what planet would that be considered "helpful"?



As always thanks.


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## Steve5D (May 14, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


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Wow. That's sad.

What does your question have to do with the question the OP asked in his initial post?


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## HughGuessWho (May 14, 2012)

Best thing to do is put the ones you dont care to hear from on your ignore list. Just let all of the rudeness run off your back, otherwise you will also miss out on input and advice of some very talented people.


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## o hey tyler (May 14, 2012)

Steve5D said:


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A lot, actually. How do you expect to get clients if you don't have a portfolio together? That's one of the basics, ain't it? Am I not allowed to ask questions, Steve? Are you one of the Avengers jumping to rescue this new freelancer? Which one do you want to be? Iron Man? He seems pretty B.A. Don't go for the guy with the bow, though. Too mundane. 

Steve, you are new to the forum, so I don't expect you to be up to speed. Literally at least one or two people a week will start a thread here saying "HELP I HAVE CLIENTS AND I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO THIS REALLY SIMPLE THING!!!" If you have clients, and you don't know how to accomplish something with relatively pedestrian photographic techniques, then you shouldn't be trying to service clients needs. 

Granted, everyone has to start somewhere, but tackling a paid job by the seat of your pants isn't the way to learn, or to establish a reliable client base. I'm not trying to bring the OP down, or discourage them from taking photos. But I may suggest that they be realistic. I WANT the OP to pursue photography, I just don't want them to get ahead of themselves and potentially be involved in a lawsuit (or several.) Heck, i didn't even ask him a baited question. I legitimately wanted to know how many images they had in their portfolio. Truth be told, when the OP said that they had 200 images that they show to clients, that is FAR too many IMHO. But the only way that they'd receive criticism to allow them to whittle down the selection is by receiving critique from an unbiased 3rd party (like a forum). 

If you don't like what I have to say, please, I urge you to put me on your "Ignore List." My feelings will not be hurt at all. As a matter of fact, I won't even know! It's entirely up to you, Steve.


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## Steve5D (May 14, 2012)

The saddest part was when you felt you had to yell because the OP didn't answer your question. That was funny. 

It's likely that he rightfully felt that your question had nothing to do with his post, so he ignored you...



o hey tyler said:


> A lot, actually. How do you expect to get clients if you don't have a portfolio together?



He wasn't asking about getting clients. He was asking about lighting.

Your response offered nothing in the way of assistance to that point...



> That's one of the basics, ain't it? Am I not allowed to ask questions, Steve? Are you one of the Avengers jumping to rescue this new freelancer? Which one do you want to be? Iron Man? He seems pretty B.A. Don't go for the guy with the bow, though. Too mundane.



Huh?

Are you 7?

I've no idea what you're talking about...



> Steve, you are new to the forum, so I don't expect you to be up to speed. Literally at least one or two people a week will start a thread here saying "HELP I HAVE CLIENTS AND I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO THIS REALLY SIMPLE THING!!!" If you have clients, and you don't know how to accomplish something with relatively pedestrian photographic techniques, then you shouldn't be trying to service clients needs.



Please, spare me the "newbie" crap. This is hardly the first internet photography forum I've been a member of, and you're hardly the first person who's been unhelpful to new photographers...



> If you don't like what I have to say, please, I urge you to put me on your "Ignore List." My feelings will not be hurt at all. As a matter of fact, I won't even know! It's entirely up to you, Steve.



Oh, I won't put you on ignore.

You humor me. You make me chuckle. Why would I want to lose that?


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## imagemaker46 (May 14, 2012)

If the Op was to post the 5 images considered the best in the collection then perhaps it will prove us all wrong, in which case I'm sure that most of us will apologize for our lack of respectful and kind comments.  The Op will get honest and sincere comments regarding the images, they will be based on amateur and professional opinions.


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## o hey tyler (May 14, 2012)

Good to know you're the type of person that picks and chooses which parts of the post to comment on, and disregards all the other parts. Nice work. You must work for a major 24 hour news network. 

I actually am quite helpful to photographers when they want help. I wasn't UNHELPFUL to the OP. I simply asked a question, which is 100% fair game. Unless of course you are his legal representative and you want him to 'plead the fifth.' You glazed right over the part where I said that I WANT the OP to pursue photography. I REALLY DO! If it's something that they enjoy and find comfort in, they should by all means pursue it. The only suggestion I would make would be regarding *HOW *they pursue it. 

As for the "Avengers" reference... It might be hard to get a solid cable TV connection under a rock, so I can understand why you were a bit confused and thought that I was a 7 year old. Granted, I would be a 7 year old with quite an expansive vocabulary, capable of typing full sentences, using punctuation, and making valid points in a forum full of 'adults.' 

To get you up to speed, The Avengers is a recently released movie that has been #1 at the box office since opening weekend. It was highly anticipated, and the copious amounts of marketing material that was released months prior to it's premier suggested so. Here's a synopsis and a rating. Perhaps you might like it? http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/marvels_the_avengers/

I don't dislike you Steve. Not one bit. But maybe you should worry a bit less about what other members are typing, and pursue the "helpfulness" that you preach about? I think everyone can take care of themselves on a text based internet forum, you know?


----------



## tirediron (May 14, 2012)

Steve5D said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> > If you read through the thread carefully, you'll find that most of the advice posted here is aimed at cautioning the OP; essentially "Don't try and run before you learn how walk!"
> ...


 This is [intended] to be helpful as a question regarding who has commented on the quality of his work. Is it someone, with trade knowlege who has made an objective comment, or someone with emotional attachment? I'm sure that you can agree that the value of the same comment from both of those people would be wildly differnt (nb. you have also incorrectly attributed the same comment made by me to Imagemaker46; could you please edit your post to correct that?)



o hey tyler said:


> How many images do you have in your portfolio to show potential clients?


This is a question, nothing more. There has been more than one self-proclaimed professional dance through here without the slightest awareness that a high-quality, professionally presented portfolio was as essential as a camera body.



orljustin said:


> ... you come across like every other "just got a camera at best buy, and now I'm a professional photographer!" person that posts here. I mean, you haven't even read or taught yourself enough to ask a question beyond "What lighting would you use" and "what other kit should I get"?
> 
> I mean, it's kind of laughable. You should be able to see that.


Perhaps not the most appropriate choice of words, however here again, as a relative newcomer, you're likely not aware of how many posts we see here from people who have been told by their parents/spouse/friends/relatives that they should be charging for their work, and who have immediately run out to Best Buy or a similar store, bought a body and kit lens and hung out their shingle on Facebook.



Steve5D said:


> Not a single one of those posts, nor most others, addressed the question that the OP asked, nor were they necessarily helpful in their criticism. Hell, one guy even characterized it as "laughable".
> 
> On what planet would that be considered "helpful"?


 I would consider that most of that, while harsh in some cases, should be very helpful to the OP. I'm not aware of your experience in photography, and more particularily in the professional end of it, but I will assume that it is limited at most. A person asking very basic questions about lighting and lenses is no more ready to charge for their services than a surgeon who asks, "What scalpel should I use?". 
I will agree that the main question hasn't been adequately answered, but I suspect that's because it's almost impossible to answer. What I would use for a certain situation may not be what you would use, and not what some others would use.

To answer your first question OP, what I would purchase for this would be: A business license, insurance, two bodies (5DII minimum), professional-grade (L) lenses covering ~15mm to 200mm at f2.8 or faster, at least two and more likely three or four speedlights, two tripods, one ball and one tilt/pan head, LOTS of memory cards and spare batteries, a good monolight set (three head minimum), remote flash triggers, a flash meter, a background stand & backgrounds, 'bag-o-clamps, ball-bungees and fasteners', a few hundred feet of extension cords, a couple of nice big Lastolite panels, a couple of 5 in 1 reflectors, Adobe Photoshop, Adobe Lightroom, the full Nik suite and a few other odd pieces of software... A big light tent, and probably a hundred other things that I can't think of off hand...


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## tirediron (May 14, 2012)

smurf4t said:


> I didn't miss your question, just didn't want to be ripped apart. Allot of people here seem hypercritical. I have about 200 that I'm happy to show clients and I have a good 100 000 (probably more) in my files that I would love to edit and photoshop around with but until now have not had the time. I'm about to free up some time to concentrate on editing some of my thousands of images.


Do not confuse harsh critique with being insulted.  I have been on this particular board for many years, and the vast majority of the critique I see posted is very good.  Some of it is bluntly worded, but you can't be thin-skinned.  There is no better way to develop as a photographer than to show your work to others.  You don't have to agree or follow the advice given, but it will give you an understanding of what people who don't know you think of your work.  I routinely get direct critiques to work I post here, and yeah, sometimes I think to myself, "He's on crack!" but it all helps me learn.


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## smurf4t (May 14, 2012)

Trever1t said:
			
		

> First let me say thank you for listening and responding in a mature manner. That alone will go far here.
> 
> I would never say you have no chance of living your dream, how could I? All I am saying is that there are 5 or 7 posts each day by people such as yourself on this forum who state they are going to get or have just bought their first DSLR and now they want to learn how to go "Pro"
> 
> ...



Thank you, much appreciated. Just by the way it's my 3rd SLR. I had just got it and had eyed it out for ages! So hence over excitement. I can totally image 1000's of people trying to get into this industry I mean why not, it is great. And from a pros point of view I'm sure newbies are totally boring, but there will always be beginners, such is the circle of life. And freshies like me to forums I'm sure are plenty too. So why not just ignore the beginners if it bugs some and focus your attention to people worthy of your time? Is this not better than making an excited beginner feel awful about themselves and the industry and potentially putting them off? 

I'm hoping to enjoy this site, some members have been absolutely wonderfully insightful and helpful. I'm hoping to learn ALOT here??


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## smurf4t (May 14, 2012)

HughGuessWho said:
			
		

> Best thing to do is put the ones you dont care to hear from on your ignore list. Just let all of the rudeness run off your back, otherwise you will also miss out on input and advice of some very talented people.



Thank you. Very kind.


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## smurf4t (May 14, 2012)

tirediron said:
			
		

> Do not confuse harsh critique with being insulted.  I have been on this particular board for many years, and the vast majority of the critique I see posted is very good.  Some of it is bluntly worded, but you can't be thin-skinned.  There is no better way to develop as a photographer than to show your work to others.  You don't have to agree or follow the advice given, but it will give you an understanding of what people who don't know you think of your work.  I routinely get direct critiques to work I post here, and yeah, sometimes I think to myself, "He's on crack!" but it all helps me learn.



Ha ha! I like the crack bit!! Not that I like crack! Definitely think criticism grows you, if you don't know where you are going wrong or if you are wrong you will never learn and improve yourself.


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## smurf4t (May 14, 2012)

Which 4 photo's are you referring to?


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## imagemaker46 (May 14, 2012)

I explained a few posts back that I got cross threaded and mixed up my posts. It was someone else that had posted something similar to the thread you posted.


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## smurf4t (May 14, 2012)

Ok so here I go - Please be kind, constructive criticism welcome. I've taken bits from across my work. Please let it be clear I am a beginner ... I enjoy the artistic side of photography and lifestyle photography, especially of children... I love photographing children.


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## orljustin (May 14, 2012)

Do NOT "desaturate everything except for the flower", especially when you're trying to hide it was taken with on camera flash.  The tunnel one is interesting.  The grass one is ok, no highlights/shadows to make it pop.  The flower one is ok, except nothing is in sharp focus.  The last is ok, for what it is.


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## imagemaker46 (May 14, 2012)

I like the shot of the boy in the tunnel.  The one of the little girl is out of focus, same with the flowers. I'm not a big fan of spot colouring, but you did a nice job on it.  You do need to keep at it,  work on the focus, it will come with time.


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## IByte (May 14, 2012)

o hey tyler said:
			
		

> A lot, actually. How do you expect to get clients if you don't have a portfolio together? That's one of the basics, ain't it? Am I not allowed to ask questions, Steve? Are you one of the Avengers jumping to rescue this new freelancer? Which one do you want to be? Iron Man? He seems pretty B.A. Don't go for the guy with the bow, though. Too mundane.
> 
> Steve, you are new to the forum, so I don't expect you to be up to speed. Literally at least one or two people a week will start a thread here saying "HELP I HAVE CLIENTS AND I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO THIS REALLY SIMPLE THING!!!" If you have clients, and you don't know how to accomplish something with relatively pedestrian photographic techniques, then you shouldn't be trying to service clients needs.
> 
> ...



The OP should read the thread about "I'm going to start an online Photoshop business, but I don't know Photoshop and I use the Gimp" thread.  I bet they would go WTF?  OP, welcome and thanks for being mature about the smart a$$ comments .  Better here than the harsh reality in the real world.  Stick around and pick up some good advice.....beer and shot who's with me? 


Edit: my fault Tyler I highlighted the wrong quote, the booze makes me do it ><!


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## camerateur (May 14, 2012)

IByte said:
			
		

> The OP should read the thread about "I'm going to start an online Photoshop business, but I don't know Photoshop and I use the Gimp" thread.  I bet they would go WTF?  OP, welcome and thanks for being mature about the smart a$$ comments .  Better here than the harsh reality in the real world.  Stick around and pick up some good advice.....beer and shot who's with me?
> 
> Edit: my fault Tyler I highlighted the wrong quote, the booze makes me do it ><!



hahaha I read that one yesterday (I think it was yesterday, the days have been running together.
possibly due to alcohol, but maybe just due to jet lag..idk!!)

OP, I also have to commend you for the mature comments.
I think this forum can be pretty great, but its too often that I think: 

:: sighhhh:: not this again, too many attacks, too little advice.
(not against me necessarily but against all TPF users.)

although the knowledge here can be so helpful and invaluable 
I hope the unhelpful become few and far apart!!! we all love photography lets learn and enjoy >.<


----------



## Bitter Jeweler (May 14, 2012)

...and so it goes.


----------



## o hey tyler (May 14, 2012)

smurf4t said:


> Ok so here I go - Please be kind, constructive criticism welcome. I've taken bits from across my work. Please let it be clear I am a beginner ... I enjoy the artistic side of photography and lifestyle photography, especially of children... I love photographing children.
> 
> View attachment 8588View attachment 8589View attachment 8590View attachment 8591View attachment 8592



I will be gentle. I promise...  

1. Sorry, this one just doesn't work. Selective coloring works well under very few circumstances. This unfortunately is not one of them. The moment you captured is cute, but it's also somewhat harmed by the usage of popup flash. If you're working with just the onboard flash on your camera, you can always try deploying it (so that it's up, and not resting in the body) and use a rubber band in conjunction with a white business card to direct the flash upwards. It also diffuses it through the business card. One thing to bear in mind is that you'll need to use a focal length of roughly 50mm or longer so that you don't see the shadow from the business card. I used that trick quite a lot prior to getting a speedlight. You should not include this photo in a portfolio IMO. 

2. This is a nice capture. I like the fact that you feel right in the moment with the child. The exposure seems good, but I am not a fan of the instagrammish boarder around it. 

3. This one appears to be out of focus. To me, that's normally right when I trash a photo. The supporting pink elements around the child are a nice touch, but not enough to make the photo usable with the focus as off as it is. 

4. The colors in this photograph are nice, but it could benefit from focusing on just the purple flowers. The whites appear to be blown, which draws quite a bit of attention to the eye. You could try a square format crop to see how it looks without the orange hue from the sun behind the trees, and the white band. 

5. Not a bad photo at all. Quite the quirky combination of colors and such as the lines lead you down the beach. I don't think the crop proportions work for it, as I usually crop to a printable ratio. It is a nice area, and if you can go back there I am sure a lot of other photographic opportunities will present themselves. 

Keep shooting.


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## fokker (May 14, 2012)

smurf4t said:


> I'm hoping to enjoy this site, some members have been absolutely wonderfully insightful and helpful. I'm hoping to learn ALOT here??



Lesson 1: 'A lot.' Alot is not part of the english language.

Sorry, just being a smartass. Welcome to TPF, where people are routinely dicks to amateurs with aspirations. Don't worry, if you enjoy it enough you'll get there eventually.


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## JSER (May 15, 2012)

you say

"Hi. I'm new to all of this. I take a pretty good photo"

I wish you luck, many who take excellent photographs and are not "new" find it hard.

Perhaps you should post some here to be seen first


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## smurf4t (May 15, 2012)

smurf4t said:


> Ok so here I go - Please be kind, constructive criticism welcome. I've taken bits from across my work. Please let it be clear I am a beginner ... I enjoy the artistic side of photography and lifestyle photography, especially of children... I love photographing children.
> 
> View attachment 8588View attachment 8589View attachment 8590View attachment 8591View attachment 8592



Image 1 - probably a bit old school - I know and a bit over done - I did like it at the time, this was taken with my kit lens that came with the canon 500d - 18-55mm IS lens
Image 2 - this is one of my fav's as its a bit artsy fartsy - I call it the time warp - I always feel like he's walking through some kind of time warp tunnel - silly i know - It was taken with my phone! (cringe)
Image 3 - I actually purposely blurred the back ground - as I know the subject was a bit blurred ( they do move really fast ) so I was hoping an over blurred back ground would make her look more in focus - I can see now that didnt work... will re-edit and have another play with it - this was taken with my 50mm f/1.8
Image 4 - I wanted to make the focus on the purple flowers in the centre - but I see now maybe I should of had a subject of some sort in the middle. But I do still like this image - I like the colours and the fact that it is a bit off focus... just me I suppose. 
Image 5 - this was taken in South end on Sea in the UK... Again just taken with canon 18-55mm IS lens - I do realize I need to start cropping to fit a photo properly but sometimes I feel if I dont the image looses its focus or doesn't look as good ? How do I get around that and do I need to? ( I know each image is unique in its problems - but are there any general suggestions - I realize photoshop is an invaluable tool in some of these cases ?)


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## smurf4t (May 15, 2012)

JSER said:


> you say
> 
> "Hi. I'm new to all of this. I take a pretty good photo"
> 
> ...



I have posted a few a few threads back... page 4 I think


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## smurf4t (May 15, 2012)

IByte said:


> o hey tyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi would you mind telling me the op's handle as I am battling to find the thread. I still dont have a handle on this forum...


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## smurf4t (May 15, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


> smurf4t said:
> 
> 
> > Ok so here I go - Please be kind, constructive criticism welcome. I've taken bits from across my work. Please let it be clear I am a beginner ... I enjoy the artistic side of photography and lifestyle photography, especially of children... I love photographing children.
> ...



Thank you so much - especially for being kind ... I've posted a general thought process in the thread on my thoughts on each ... really appreciated what you had to say and I have taken it all on board - I love it when people make me think !


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## smurf4t (May 15, 2012)

imagemaker46 said:


> I like the shot of the boy in the tunnel.  The one of the little girl is out of focus, same with the flowers. I'm not a big fan of spot colouring, but you did a nice job on it.  You do need to keep at it,  work on the focus, it will come with time.



Thank you so much for checking them out... You comments are great...


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## smurf4t (May 15, 2012)

Ok 3 more ... I'm sticking my neck out and being cheeky I know ... but I'm finding this feed back wonderfully insightful and so appreciate everyones opinion even if its not wonderful - but it will help me become a better photographer... thanks for looking and commenting...
all taken with my favourite 50mm f1.8mm canon lens and canon500d.


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## IByte (May 15, 2012)

smurf4t said:
			
		

> Hi would you mind telling me the op's handle as I am battling to find the thread. I still dont have a handle on this forum...



Here is the link to the thread.  This what the seasoned people deem a pet peeve. http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...ry/283795-creating-new-photoshop-service.html


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## imagemaker46 (May 15, 2012)

smurf4t said:


> View attachment 8613View attachment 8614View attachment 8615
> 
> Ok 3 more ... I'm sticking my neck out and being cheeky I know ... but I'm finding this feed back wonderfully insightful and so appreciate everyones opinion even if its not wonderful - but it will help me become a better photographer... thanks for looking and commenting...
> all taken with my favourite 50mm f1.8mm canon lens and canon500d.



These all look like they are out of focus.


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## o hey tyler (May 15, 2012)

IByte said:


> smurf4t said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hey, IByte... You drinking at 7:00AM? I don't see a link.


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## IByte (May 15, 2012)

o hey tyler said:
			
		

> Hey, IByte... You drinking at 7:00AM? I don't see a link.



Lol a bit hungover but I still have the link.  Sorry OP here is the link take two .  
http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...ry/283795-creating-new-photoshop-service.html


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## KmH (May 15, 2012)

smurf4t said:


> Hi would you mind telling me the op's handle as I am battling to find the thread. I still dont have a handle on this forum...


You are the OP. It's right there next to your screen name *[**OP]* above your avatar.

_*O*_riginal *P*oster


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## DiskoJoe (May 15, 2012)

tirediron said:


> smurf4t said:
> 
> 
> > Hi. I'm new to all of this. *I take a pretty good photo* and *am relatively good at photoshop*...
> ...



I smell BS. Let see some pics from the professional.


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## Steve5D (May 15, 2012)

imagemaker46 said:


> If the Op was to post the 5 images considered the best in the collection then perhaps it will prove us all wrong, in which case I'm sure that most of us will apologize for our lack of respectful and kind comments.  The Op will get honest and sincere comments regarding the images, they will be based on amateur and professional opinions.



It's entirely possible to be critical while, at the same time, being respectful.

Doesn't look like too many people here are burdened with that ability, however...


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## tirediron (May 15, 2012)

Let's see if I can provide some critique which meets with Steve5D's approval.

1. It's a rather tight crop especially on the should of the young child. Always try and avoid cropping little bits of body parts off if at all possible. If you need to crop a person, do it boldly and never at/through joints or along a joint's lateral axis. Only one of the two subjects is looking at or toward the camera. Always try and attract the attention of all subjects, and unless there is a reason for them to look away, have them look toward the camera. Lastly the exposure, while adequate leaves the subjects looking rather flashed. A decent size soft-box or similar diffuser would have helped.

2. Again, a tight crop, the child is missing the back of her head. I like the idea here, sort of a whimsical shot, but I would like to see more of her face. Had you moved slightly further right, and included all of her head, I think this would have worked much better. We don't really care so much about the flowers. A few of them would have been sufficient.

3. The first thing that strikes me is that the child's face is soft. It looks like your point of focus was on his right (image left) sleeve, but on this less than stellar work monitor, I can't be sure. The subject is too close to the background as evidenced by the shadow behind him, and I find the crop through the white undershirt awkward. Opening up slightly, or cropping to a bust-shot would have been better IMO. More light was needed on the face as it is difficult to distinguish between iris and pupil. 

Overall, these aren't a bad set of images, but they all have issues ranging from moderate to severe, and indicate to me that you understand the basics, but are not yet skilled enough to nail the 'Ah-ha' shot on a regular basis. I would suggest studying lighting, and concentrating on your focus, DoF, and composition. I always recommend compose the image and then open up slightly. Most people, especially newer photogrpahers have a tendancy to crop too tightly. You can always take some off in post, but adding it back can be a challenge. In summary: You're on your way, but I wouldn't pay for these.

Just my $00.02 worth - your mileage may vary.

~John


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## imagemaker46 (May 15, 2012)

Steve5D you seem to a nice guy, playing the knight in shining armour, what's your opinion on the Op's images that have been posted?  You've pretty much bashed everyone else for expressing comments.  Just wondering.


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## smurf4t (May 15, 2012)

tirediron said:


> Let's see if I can provide some critique which meets with Steve5D's approval.
> 
> 1. It's a rather tight crop especially on the should of the young child. Always try and avoid cropping little bits of body parts off if at all possible. If you need to crop a person, do it boldly and never at/through joints or along a joint's lateral axis. Only one of the two subjects is looking at or toward the camera. Always try and attract the attention of all subjects, and unless there is a reason for them to look away, have them look toward the camera. Lastly the exposure, while adequate leaves the subjects looking rather flashed. A decent size soft-box or similar diffuser would have helped.
> 
> ...



Thanks John

Much appreciated. I especially like what you said about cropping to tightly... Makes a lot of sense ... I have one real problem I am battling to get around and that is when photographing children - they move so dam fast... hence I am battling to get a crisp image... any suggestions...


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## tirediron (May 15, 2012)

smurf4t said:


> ...I have one real problem I am battling to get around and that is when photographing children - they move so dam fast... hence I am battling to get a crisp image... any suggestions...


Just the obvious one - practice!  Some of the skills that separate the "men from the boys" photographically speaking are things like using both eyes; that is, keeping one eye on the scene through the viewfinder, and the other looking around the camera at the 'big picture'.  Learn to anticipate, learn to track and learn to pan.  There are members here who are FAR more skilled at children's portraiture than am I, and who can doubtless give you more pointed advice, but at the end of the day, it really is all about practice.


----------



## HughGuessWho (May 15, 2012)

tirediron said:
			
		

> Let's see if I can provide some critique which meets with Steve5D's approval.
> 
> 1. It's a rather tight crop especially on the should of the young child. Always try and avoid cropping little bits of body parts off if at all possible. If you need to crop a person, do it boldly and never at/through joints or along a joint's lateral axis. Only one of the two subjects is looking at or toward the camera. Always try and attract the attention of all subjects, and unless there is a reason for them to look away, have them look toward the camera. Lastly the exposure, while adequate leaves the subjects looking rather flashed. A decent size soft-box or similar diffuser would have helped.
> 
> ...



Very nice critique.


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## Steve5D (May 15, 2012)

tirediron said:


> Let's see if I can provide some critique which meets with Steve5D's approval.



Hey, as long as you're respectful, it will.

The guy was just asking for a little guidance, and he got ripped apart.

I maintain that he was ripped apart by those who, despite their best efforts are routinely panned by prospective clients, and they're lashing out because they're pissy about it...


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## o hey tyler (May 15, 2012)

Steve5D said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> > Let's see if I can provide some critique which meets with Steve5D's approval.
> ...



Do tell, Steve. How do you feel about her images?


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## Steve5D (May 15, 2012)

imagemaker46 said:


> Steve5D you seem to a nice guy, playing the knight in shining armour, what's your opinion on the Op's images that have been posted?  You've pretty much bashed everyone else for expressing comments.  Just wondering.



Not a knight in shining armor at all. I didn't bash anyone for expressing comments. I bashed them for expressing stupid, ignorant comments. Suggesting that someone's photos belong in the trash is, I'm sorry, a profoundly stupid comment.

As to my critique of the photos the OP posted here:

I don't like selective coloring so, while it may or may not be a wonderful job of doing it, I don't like it.

I like the shot of the kid in the tube.

The purple flowers? I'd like to see more of the flowers in focus.

The little girl laying in the grass? It's fine. There's nothing about it which grabs me and makes me look at it. It's a perfectly fine photograph, but nothing special.

The beach houses? I'd clone out the people on the shore and saturate it a little bit. I'd also try to do something with the sky.

Aside from my personal criticisms of them, there's no reason to suggest that any of them belong in the trash. Again, that's just an ignorant comment...


----------



## tirediron (May 15, 2012)

HughGuessWho said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank-you.


----------



## o hey tyler (May 15, 2012)

Steve5D said:


> imagemaker46 said:
> 
> 
> > Steve5D you seem to a nice guy, playing the knight in shining armour, what's your opinion on the Op's images that have been posted?  You've pretty much bashed everyone else for expressing comments.  Just wondering.
> ...



Steve, if you don't mind... I'd really appreciate it if you could cite where someone suggested that they trash any  one of their photos? You seemed to take great offense, and it could be that I simply missed the post in which it was suggested that someone suggested to the OP that they trash any of their photos.


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## smurf4t (May 16, 2012)

Steve5D said:
			
		

> Not a knight in shining armor at all. I didn't bash anyone for expressing comments. I bashed them for expressing stupid, ignorant comments. Suggesting that someone's photos belong in the trash is, I'm sorry, a profoundly stupid comment.
> 
> As to my critique of the photos the OP posted here:
> 
> ...



Thank you for your valuable thoughts.
Also thank you for your support. 

I especially like the idea of photoshopping the people out of the beach house photo


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## smurf4t (May 16, 2012)

tirediron said:
			
		

> Just the obvious one - practice!  Some of the skills that separate the "men from the boys" photographically speaking are things like using both eyes; that is, keeping one eye on the scene through the viewfinder, and the other looking around the camera at the 'big picture'.  Learn to anticipate, learn to track and learn to pan.  There are members here who are FAR more skilled at children's portraiture than am I, and who can doubtless give you more pointed advice, but at the end of the day, it really is all about practice.



Thank you. So tying them up is not a solution ? .( Just kidding. )


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## Steve5D (May 16, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


> Steve, if you don't mind... I'd really appreciate it if you could cite where someone suggested that they trash any  one of their photos? You seemed to take great offense, and it could be that I simply missed the post in which it was suggested that someone suggested to the OP that they trash any of their photos.



While not directed at any one image specifically, it's in post #9 of this thread, essentially saying that if it's family or friends saying the images are good, they probably belong in the trash.

 Comments such as that are simply uncalled for, juvenile and worthless...


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## smurf4t (May 16, 2012)

Steve5D said:
			
		

> While not directed at any one image specifically, it's in post #9 of this thread, essentially saying that if it's family or friends saying the images are good, they probably belong in the trash.
> 
> Comments such as that are simply uncalled for, juvenile and worthless...



I hear what was said here, but it could have been said a bit more diplomatically. Less bull china shop approach. If I had been a young 18 / 20 year old, which luckily I'm not any more, I might totally be put off. But really I do get what is actually meant by the comment. If only mommy and daddy are saying little johnny what lovely pictures you have, they might not actually be good pictures. 

I am really enjoying this forum now , now that I know my way around, and hopefully I've become less of a bull in a china shop.


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## imagemaker46 (May 16, 2012)

Steve5D said:


> o hey tyler said:
> 
> 
> > Steve, if you don't mind... I'd really appreciate it if you could cite where someone suggested that they trash any  one of their photos? You seemed to take great offense, and it could be that I simply missed the post in which it was suggested that someone suggested to the OP that they trash any of their photos.
> ...



The fact of the matter is that family and friends like everything that is shot by their family and friends.  People hesitate to show me their happy snaps for fear I will be critical of them, they are just happy snaps, I know the fifference, I also know that these people have no thoughts of turning into professional photographers.  If some shows me a photo and says "In your professional opinion, what do you think" They would get a different response.

I grew up having everything I shot critiqued by my Dad, both good and bad, he told me the truth. He has also been one of Canada's greatest photojournalists for the past 60 years, so in my case my family didn't lie to me about my work.  This really isn't the usual case.


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## tirediron (May 16, 2012)

smurf4t said:


> Thank you. So tying them up is not a solution ? .( Just kidding. )


Absolutely not!  The rope can leave unsightly marks on the skin which you'll have to remove in post.  Either use a mild opiate or duct-tape!


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## smurf4t (May 16, 2012)

tirediron said:
			
		

> Absolutely not!  The rope can leave unsightly marks on the skin which you'll have to remove in post.  Either use a mild opiate or duct-tape!



Duct tape also leaves marks when removed? So drugs it is? Lol.


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## 12sndsgood (May 16, 2012)

Wave a horrible sandwich in front of a starving man and he will tell you its a great sandwich. I know most of my family and close friends are going to think my shots are great, but I take them to places like this where people are knowledgable about a great photo and a snapshot to get a true idea of where I stand. Some people on here do come off very gruff but you still generally get good info and good critiques. Remember its the interenet. words can only hurt you if you let them.


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## JLNM.PHOTO (May 16, 2012)

You should definitely invest in at least one more speed light (530ex Speedlight) At least one (preferably 2) freestanding umbrellas with flash mount and a soft box. You may also want to consider a monopod, they offer a lot more freedom without losing stability.  You don't need much more than the two lenses that you have, but for efficiency, I keep two camera bodies on me.  You may also want to consider Lightroom for editing, (not give up photoshop, its always useful but lightroom is amazing for portraits etc)


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## 12sndsgood (May 16, 2012)

tirediron said:


> smurf4t said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you. So tying them up is not a solution ? .( Just kidding. )
> ...



Does remind me of a new story around here this last week,  guy and girl take there 4 kids to get more alcoho (they were both drunk.) so upon leaving the liquor store they strapped the kids to the roof of the car and started home. A cop spotted them and pulled them over and the guy said he thought they would enjoy being strapped to the roof.


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## HughGuessWho (May 16, 2012)

12sndsgood said:


> Does remind me of a new story around here this last week,  guy and girl take there 4 kids to get more alcoho (they were both drunk.) so upon leaving the liquor store they strapped the kids to the roof of the car and started home. A cop spotted them and pulled them over and the guy said he thought they would enjoy being strapped to the roof.



I left the Indy area about 8 years ago. Since then, it seems like everytime I turn on the news, or Cops or some show like that, they have the goofiest, illiterate, inbreed they can find on there. I know the majority of people arent like that, so why is it that's all you hear or see?


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## 12sndsgood (May 16, 2012)

HughGuessWho said:


> 12sndsgood said:
> 
> 
> > Does remind me of a new story around here this last week, guy and girl take there 4 kids to get more alcoho (they were both drunk.) so upon leaving the liquor store they strapped the kids to the roof of the car and started home. A cop spotted them and pulled them over and the guy said he thought they would enjoy being strapped to the roof.
> ...



Sounds like you left when i got here, I moved here fron Cincinnati about 10 years ago and Indy was a step up.  But news now a days likes to dig up the oddest out there stuff they can find to draw viewers in.  

okay, back on topic lol


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## smurf4t (May 16, 2012)

JLNM.PHOTO said:
			
		

> You should definitely invest in at least one more speed light (530ex Speedlight) At least one (preferably 2) freestanding umbrellas with flash mount and a soft box. You may also want to consider a monopod, they offer a lot more freedom without losing stability.  You don't need much more than the two lenses that you have, but for efficiency, I keep two camera bodies on me.  You may also want to consider Lightroom for editing, (not give up photoshop, its always useful but lightroom is amazing for portraits etc)



Thank you that's great advice. I have one speed light already. It was lighting I was struggling with. Soft box was on my list. I wasn't sure about umbrellas or not. And from what I gather Lr is a pretty good tool and must have. Thank you.


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## CCericola (May 16, 2012)

smurf4t said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Gaffers Tape!


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## raider (May 17, 2012)

for the sake of consistency, i'll post my standard reply.  but this is the last time.  

someone said i did a good job unclogging their toilet, i can now post here:  Plumbing Zone - Professional Plumbers Forum

oh and how much do i charge?  ok thats it - i'm retired from these type of threads.  take care.


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## Steve5D (May 17, 2012)

imagemaker46 said:


> Steve5D said:
> 
> 
> > o hey tyler said:
> ...



Doesn't matter.

The comment was rude, unconstructive, and profoundly juvenile.

It added absolutely nothing to the conversation...


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## tirediron (May 17, 2012)

*Okay, I think this has degenerated far enough.  Everyone pick up a camera and go outside and take some pictures.
*


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