# First flash-strobe vs speedlight.



## JustJazzie (Dec 4, 2013)

I am trying to save up for and decide on my first "real" flash. I've used a super cheep slave before but it didn't even have manual settings, and I have a bounce flash on my camera with flash comp to bounce off ceilings so I have toyed with it a bit but obviously not much else.

I am trying to weight the pros and cons to strobes vs speedlights. I know the obvious ones portability, strength, modeling lights etc but I still just can't seem to make up my mind.

I shoot portriats. I'd like to have the option to shoot outside, but generally I like to shoot inside where I can control all my lights. My interest is currently taking me into boudoir photography assuming I can find people willing to model for me while I practice. I do dabble in other things too but nothing really worth mentioning I suppose.

I'm shooting with a sony NEX7 if that's relevant at all. I have 2 "hot light" soft boxes I am hoping to modify for use without the hot lights, and I am interested in getting a barn door, snoot and a grid. Maybe some umbrellas for portability. 

Ultimately, I think I would like to have 2 studio strobes and 2-3 speed-lights, but where is the best place to start? "Reasonable" cost isn't a huge factor. I don't just want to buy something cheep to get started. I'd like to invest in something I can grow with, but if I HAD to name a budget I would probably cap it around $500. Obviously it wouldn't hurt to spend less.
Any thoughts from the "been there done that" masses?


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## Derrel (Dec 4, 2013)

Both have plusses and minuses. For the beginner, the MAJOR benefit of either hot lights or studio flash units with modeling lights is that the photographer can literally SEE what effects the lights are creating, continuously, as the lights are moved around. The subject can also see and "feel" the light, and can be instructed to move toward or away from "the light". The effect, or non-effect of main light and fill light and hair light can ALL be visually SEEN, and provides continuous feedback for the shooter. The lighting is actually there, and present, visible, all during the shoot. The light also provides illumination for the AF system , for composing in dimmer shooting environments, and it also keeps the subject's pupils constricted, so they are not vacant, heroin-eyed, and black-irised, with no eye color, sort of a hallmark of portraits shot with speedlights in dim rooms...people with eyes that are dialated. And no, I do not buy into the dilated pupils look sexually arousing thing....not one bit...it looks bad to me.

You want REAL barndoors, and a real grid, and a real snoot? I mean, ones that can actually be aimed, evaluated, worked with continually? Get studio strobes. Barn doors on speedlights are mostly a hit-and-miss novelty.

Speedlights are getting better these days, but they lack continuously on modeling lights, and do not work as easily with modifiers the way studio flash units do. I think the more-experienced a person is, the better they can work with speedlights. For beginners, I think learning with speedlights is a mistake, and a bad way to start out.It's a lot of flying blind, and hit-or-miss, with too many crappy images resulting from shooting blind, mostly due to inexperience. Oftentimes, with real studio lights, issues show up BEFORE a shot is even tripped off...because the modeling lights actually SHOW what the light placement is doing on the subject at that exact moment...if you want to be able to pose a person fluidly, and the catchlights and the shadows do not show up until after the shot is taken, or only after the session, you're not getting the best results because you're using the wrong tools.


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## JustJazzie (Dec 4, 2013)

Thanks for that detailed response. Many points I hadn't even begun to consider, (the pupil thing for instance) 

If I go with studio strobes, how important is it to have a fan cooled unit??


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## Derrel (Dec 4, 2013)

The manufacturers largely determine when a unit needs to be fan cooled or not. Higher-powered units can generate more heat faster than lower-powered units, but the amount of heat from studio flashes is not near as high as with say, powerful quartz continuous lights. So, I do not think fan cooling is all that "essential" in normal use, and by normal I mean 300-500 shots fired over 2 hours' time span. By the same token, a SPEEDLIGHT fired just 30 times at FULL manual power within a few minutes will become very close to over heating...

One thing with studio flash is that a metal reflector if one is used, can act as a pretty good "cooling radiator" for the heat the modeling light and the flashtube firing creates. With a speedlight, the heat tends to be built up literally "inside" a very small area, and the flash is made of polycarbonate, which does NOT conduct heat away.

And that's another issue; studio flash units can often be recycled fully in anywhere from 1 to 3.5 seconds, depending on power level and the model; more-expensive flashes recycle faster than cheaper units. Higher-powered units, when dialed down to lower power, can often be incredibly quick to recycle because they are often firing by releasing only a fraction of the power stored in their capacitor banks.

I think you ought to look at this web article   product review | adorama flashpoint studio gear | Clickin MomsClickin Moms


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## JustJazzie (Dec 4, 2013)

Derrel said:


> The manufacturers largely determine when a unit needs to be fan cooled or not. Higher-powered units can generate more heat faster than lower-powered units, but the amount of heat from studio flashes is not near as high as with say, powerful quartz continuous lights. So, I do not think fan cooling is all that "essential" in normal use, and by normal I mean 300-500 shots fired over 2 hours' time span. By the same token, a SPEEDLIGHT fired just 30 times at FULL manual power within a few minutes will become very close to over heating...  One thing with studio flash is that a metal reflector if one is used, can act as a pretty good "cooling radiator" for the heat the modeling light and the flashtube firing creates. With a speedlight, the heat tends to be built up literally "inside" a very small area, and the flash is made of polycarbonate, which does NOT conduct heat away.  And that's another issue; studio flash units can often be recycled fully in anywhere from 1 to 3.5 seconds, depending on power level and the model; more-expensive flashes recycle faster than cheaper units. Higher-powered units, when dialed down to lower power, can often be incredibly quick to recycle because they are often firing by releasing only a fraction of the power stored in their capacitor banks.  I think you ought to look at this web article   product review | adorama flashpoint studio gear | Clickin MomsClickin Moms



That's for the article! I'll read it twice. 

Actually, the studio strobe options I am considering so far, are the flashpoint in the article, as well as the alien bees b800. Which is why I was asking about fan cooling in the first place.


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## Derrel (Dec 4, 2013)

Did you notice that the $99 Flashpoint 320M has consistently higher flash output that the Alien Bee 400 AND is about equal to the Alien Bee 800? In repeated testing, over and over and over?

Buff's marketing department has done a great job of *over-labeling* its flash units, for years, way back into the 1980's beginning with the old *White Lightning 10,000* model, the one that looked like a Folger's coffee can.

What Buff calls an "800" is what Speedotron users like me call "150 Watt-seconds".


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## JustJazzie (Dec 4, 2013)

Derrel said:


> Did you notice that the $99 Flashpoint 320M has consistently higher flash output that the Alien Bee 400 AND the Alien Bee 800? In repeated testing, over and over and over?  Buff's marketing department has done a great job of over-labeling its flash units, for years, way back into the 1980's beginning with the old White Lightning 10,000 model, the one that looked like a Folger's coffee can.  What Buff calls an "800" is what Speedotron users like me call "150 Watt-seconds".



Very interesting! And good for my wallet as well. If fan cooling isn't really a necessity I will definitely be researching more on the flashppoints. The reviews on adorama are pretty spectacular.


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## Designer (Dec 4, 2013)

Jazzie; getting real studio strobes is probably the best place to start, and if you wan to take them outside, you can get battery packs that work with them.  

OTOH, if your immediate need is for a speedlight, and your budget is around $500, then I might get a "brand" speedlight that will do TTL.  The reason is you can see remarkable results using one speedlight and a white umbrella on a light stand.  Of course, you'll want to be able to fire the flash remotely, so plan on a cable or if you can afford it, radio triggers.  I know that blows right past your budget, but it is something to consider.

By taking Derrel's suggestion, you can get a pair of studio strobes, light stands, light modifiers, and more for $595.

here:  Flashpoint DG600 Ultra Wedding Portrait Light System FPML600DGKT3


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## Designer (Dec 4, 2013)

Also, be sure to read this thread:

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/lighting-hardware/342809-decent-lighting-kit-2.html


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## Designer (Dec 4, 2013)

Here's a cheaper outfit that you might like.  I don't know anything about the brand, but it will get you started.

Interfit Photographic EX150 MKIII w/2-150 Watt Second Monolight Flashes INT352


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## JustJazzie (Dec 4, 2013)

Designer said:


> Also, be sure to read this thread:  http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/lighting-hardware/342809-decent-lighting-kit-2.html



Thanks for linking me to this. Some very helpful info!


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## JustJazzie (Dec 4, 2013)

Designer said:


> Jazzie; getting real studio strobes is probably the best place to start, and if you wan to take them outside, you can get battery packs that work with them.  OTOH, if your immediate need is for a speedlight, and your budget is around $500, then I might get a "brand" speedlight that will do TTL.  The reason is you can see remarkable results using one speedlight and a white umbrella on a light stand.  Of course, you'll want to be able to fire the flash remotely, so plan on a cable or if you can afford it, radio triggers.  I know that blows right past your budget, but it is something to consider.  By taking Derrel's suggestion, you can get a pair of studio strobes, light stands, light modifiers, and more for $595.  here:  Flashpoint DG600 Ultra Wedding Portrait Light System FPML600DGKT3



This kit looks right up my alley! Thanks.


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