# Very confused :S



## Lmphotos (Mar 2, 2013)

That's a first right?? Ha! I'm confused on triggering my OCF. Right now I am Optically triggering in but I learned quick into very unreliable and doesn't work well. This is what I want to do is wirelessly trigger it where I don't have to be next to it for it to go off or it doesn't have to see me. But I also want one to stay on the hot shoe and maintain ettl or at least manual function while my slave is off camera. I know it's possible because I've heard of people doing it but all the triggers I've looked at doesn't seem to be a me to place a flash on top of it for the on camera master. I'm sure this sounds jumbled anyone who can help it is appreciated


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## Robin_Usagani (Mar 2, 2013)

This is what I use.  You can put a flash on the top of the transmitter and the flash will still act like it normally would.  The off camera flash will be in manual though.

Phottix Strato II Multi 5-in-1 Wireless Trigger


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## pgriz (Mar 2, 2013)

Simple sync triggers only give the command to fire, there's no communication between the flash and the camera to establish the "back-and-forth" that allows E-TTL.  If you want E-TTL with your radio triggers, you need to go to the high-end wireless units (Pocketwizard Flex, Radio-poppers, and some others) that explicitly support E-TTL (and by no coincidence cost a lot more).  Note that Canon and Nikon E-TTL units are incompatible since the two companies have their own communication protocols.  If your off-camera flash is close enough to the camera, you can use a flash extender cable, which has the physical contacts to all the live pins, and will allow you to have the flash up to 2 ft. away AND use E-TTL. 

If you are in a studio situation, using the simple sync triggers is usually not a huge problem, as you can walk over to the flash units and set the power levels manually.  In fact, manual control of the flash is much more reliable than using E-TTL, because YOU are in control.  When using E-TTL, the camera makes a lot of the decisions for you, and the flash exposure you get varies a lot from shot to shot if you're moving the camera around.  On the other hand, I've been in situations where E-TTL was a much better fit (because I was moving around all the time), so I put my flash on a flash bracket, connected the flash to the camera with an extender cable, and put a diffuser on the flash to make the light "larger".  Works, but you're hauling a rather impressively sized rig.


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## manaheim (Mar 2, 2013)

By the way the optical triggers (at least Nikon's CLR system) work VERY well in relatively small and not overly-bright settings.


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## 480sparky (Mar 2, 2013)

manaheim said:


> By the way the optical triggers (at least Nikon's CL*S* system) work VERY well in relatively small and not overly-bright settings.



FIFY.  CL*R* is for cleaning sinks & bathtubs.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Mar 2, 2013)

480sparky said:


> manaheim said:
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> > By the way the optical triggers (at least Nikon's CL*S* system) work VERY well in relatively small and not overly-bright settings.
> ...


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## manaheim (Mar 2, 2013)

480sparky said:


> manaheim said:
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> > By the way the optical triggers (at least Nikon's CL*S* system) work VERY well in relatively small and not overly-bright settings.
> ...



  Whoops.


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## KmH (Mar 2, 2013)

pgriz said:


> Note that Canon and Nikon E-TTL units are incompatible since the two companies have their own communication protocols.


Canon - eTTL. Nikon - iTTL.

Using either eTTL or iTTL requires a lot more knowledge and skill than just controlling the flash unit and camera in manual modes.
Manual moide produces more consistent results too because the camera is not involved in settings decision making. 
In eTTL/iTTL the camera is only able to follow a software program that often chooses settings that don't give you the result you want, particularly when you are shooting a scene that varies somewhat from shot to shot.

Using an optically triggered system (infrared light - IR) you have to be mindful of the sight lines. You may need to rotate a flash head so the optical sensing window on the flash unit's body faces the camera. You can sometime get optical triggering systems to work around a corner or otherwise out-of-sight if you set up a reflector.

Direct sunlight is a problem for optical triggering systems because the Sun produces quite a bit of IR light that overwhelms the cameras IR light signal.
Range is another limitation of optical triggering systems. While radio triggering systems can work reliably at 100+ feet, most optical systems max out at 30 to 40 feet or so.

In short, radio triggering is so popular because radio triggering has far fewer physical technical limitations.


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## Mully (Mar 2, 2013)

I recently bought these for studio and they work great AST Yongnuo RF-603 3 PCS Wireless Flash Trigger Nikon about $60 on Amazon for 3 of them...... work great


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## manaheim (Mar 2, 2013)

KmH said:


> pgriz said:
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> > Note that Canon and Nikon E-TTL units are incompatible since the two companies have their own communication protocols.
> ...



And sometimes the "reflector" can just be walls or other objects in the room.  I'm not trying to amp them up beyond their limitations, but the point is with a little creativity in the right circumstances you can make them work pretty well.  I think they get poo pooed a little overmuch at times, but they are a pretty viable option if you're clever.


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## cgipson1 (Mar 2, 2013)

IF you want TTL OCF, you will have to get TTL capable triggers as mentioned.... I prefer the PW's, but have heard that these do fairly well:   Amazon.com: Yongnuo YN-622C Wireless TTL Flash Trigger for Canon 600EX RT 580EXII 430EXII: Camera & Photo . And they are very inexpensive!


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## IByte (Mar 2, 2013)

480sparky said:


> FIFY.  CLR is for cleaning sinks & bathtubs.



The stuff works wonders.


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## Lmphotos (Mar 2, 2013)

This is my problem please let me know if there is a solution you know of. I have two sigma flashes the ef 610 dg super and the ef 610 dg st. The super boast that it has master and slave capabilities the ST doesn't say any of that even though it came with a flash stand in the box.....I can optically trigger the super but its more limiting than I would like. What I want is one flash off camera with an umbrella or soft box on it at manual 1/16 power ( no ettl) then I want one to remain on my hotshoe on camera on ettl mode. I want to wirelessly be able to trigger them though not optically. Tell me if this is possible please?


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## Robin_Usagani (Mar 2, 2013)

Yes..  What i suggested.


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## gsgary (Mar 2, 2013)

Optical trigger on your off camera flash FLASH WIRELESS OPTICAL SLAVE TRIGGER HOT SHOE for ANALOGUE and Other Flashes | eBay, but i don't use ettl does ettl pre flash if so it will set off your other flash with pre flash and not flash when needed, forget it and just set them up on manual


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## Robin_Usagani (Mar 2, 2013)

Pretty much ANY radio trigger will do what you want to do. But most of the time you have to connect the transmitter to your PC port so you either let it dangling or add velcro.  The one I suggest has hotshoe slot on the top of the transmitter so you dont have to use a cable.


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## Lmphotos (Mar 2, 2013)

Robin_Usagani said:


> Yes..  What i suggested.



Sorry to keep hounding on this but this is like a third language to me and want to make sure I buy It right the first time. With these triggers does my flash have to say it does either a master or slave mode or will the trigger that up for it? I'm not worried about the super flash but the ST flash as I've heard it can't be used off camera. If it can be used on camera I'm ok with that but does it have to have master capability for the triggers to work? Any idea if these triggers are compatible with sigma flashes?


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## Robin_Usagani (Mar 2, 2013)

Yes, your sigma will have the same pins as canon (if it is for canon).  You dont have to set the flash to master or slave.  The only time you do that is when you use the built in infra red trigger.


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## Robin_Usagani (Mar 2, 2013)

Also, if you use this trigger, you need to use 1/200 shutter speed or slower. The trigger cant do HSS.


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## Lmphotos (Mar 2, 2013)

You just made my day! I went to two camera store trying to find this info out and no one could help me thank you !


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## Robin_Usagani (Mar 2, 2013)

Can I ask why you want to shoot ETTL on camera and manual off camera?


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## cgipson1 (Mar 2, 2013)

Lmphotos said:


> This is my problem please let me know if there is a solution you know of. I have two sigma flashes the ef 610 dg super and the ef 610 dg st. The super boast that it has master and slave capabilities the ST doesn't say any of that even though it came with a flash stand in the box.....I can optically trigger the super but its more limiting than I would like. What I want is one flash off camera with an umbrella or soft box on it at manual 1/16 power ( no ettl) then I want one to remain on my hotshoe on camera on ettl mode. I want to wirelessly be able to trigger them though not optically. Tell me if this is possible please?



ANY wireless trigger will do that... but maybe not with the Sigma's! I have read of some of the Sigma flashes not being compatible with wireless triggers for whatever reason. I will try to find the thread / page where I read that...  and post it if I can.


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## cgipson1 (Mar 2, 2013)

I found these.... don't know if they are applicable to your model of flash or not...

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...oblem-wireless-flash-trigger-sigma-flash.html

Sigma EF 530 dg st: Possible to shoot off-camera? - Photo.net Beginner Photography Questions Forum


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## Canuk (Mar 2, 2013)

I have the Sigma 610 super and I can confirm it will not work with wireless triggers. It will also not work on a non canon camera. It will not fire off a normal hotshot. It uses the outside pins and not the centre "normal" hotshot pin to fire.


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## Lmphotos (Mar 2, 2013)

Canuk said:


> I have the Sigma 610 super and I can confirm it will not work with wireless triggers. It will also not work on a non canon camera. It will not fire off a normal hotshot. It uses the outside pins and not the centre "normal" hotshot pin to fire.



What??!!! Ughhhhh this is devastating so how to you use it off camera?


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## Lmphotos (Mar 2, 2013)

Robin_Usagani said:


> Can I ask why you want to shoot ETTL on camera and manual off camera?


 

The off camera is backlighting and the on camera is ettl to illuminate faces but I will be moving around and I will be going to quickly in order for me to be able to manually change it


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## Lmphotos (Mar 2, 2013)

Will Phottix Strato II/Strato etc work with Sigma EF-500 DG Super flash?

Ok I found this it says it does not work with sigma unless it is in CO SL mode....but that is the same mode to optically trigger so does that mean the transmitters are not triggering it but instead it's just back to optically triggering?


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## Robin_Usagani (Mar 2, 2013)

wow.. good to know.  Seriously.. just go buy a cheap manual flash like Yongnuo.  I trigger that no problem.  I bet you only the flash that is off the camera will have that problem.  The one sitting on the transmitter should retain it functions because all the transmitter does is pass the signal up.


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## Lmphotos (Mar 2, 2013)

Which yongnuo do you used?


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## Canuk (Mar 2, 2013)

Robin_Usagani said:
			
		

> wow.. good to know.  Seriously.. just go buy a cheap manual flash like Yongnuo.  I trigger that no problem.  I bet you only the flash that is off the camera will have that problem.  The one sitting on the transmitter should retain it functions because all the transmitter does is pass the signal up.



The sigma 610 will not fire on camera if there is a transceiver between it and the camera. It works on camera very well, it works as an optical slave, but will not work with triggers in anyway that I found. The flash is not triggered by the centre pin but the pins on the outside.


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## Robin_Usagani (Mar 2, 2013)

Maybe thats why Sigma flashes are not selling well.  I reallly dont understand why it wouldnt fire because I put my flash on the top of the camera like the transmitter isnt there.



Canuk said:


> Robin_Usagani said:
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## Lmphotos (Mar 2, 2013)

Canuk said:


> Robin_Usagani said:
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So are you saying I'm put of options?


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## cgipson1 (Mar 2, 2013)

Lmphotos said:


> Which yongnuo do you used?



Any of the Yongnuo's will work fine with any wireless trigger.... Yongnuo even makes a good wireless trigger, the one I posted earlier.


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## Lmphotos (Mar 2, 2013)

But does that leave me sol with my sigmas?


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## cgipson1 (Mar 2, 2013)

Lmphotos said:


> But does that leave me sol with my sigmas?



There is always EBAY! Or you could donate them here to people without any flash at all! If you are shooting for money, buy decent equipment that will do what you need!


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## Canuk (Mar 2, 2013)

If you have access to another camera, that is not a canon eos, try to fire the flash off the hotshoe. If it fires it will work with triggers if it doesn't it won't. There maybe triggers that work with the sigmas but I haven't found which ones. The cheap yongous flashes are what I wished I had of bought instead.


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## Lmphotos (Mar 14, 2013)

Just a little bump and some info bought yongnuo triggers and the sigma 610 super and ST both work with the triggers!!


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