# Product Photography, Shadows.. help!



## Benjamin2 (Aug 14, 2012)

Hi There, 

I'm really stressing myself out over my photography, I wonder if someone could help me out.. 

Basically the problem I'm having is regarding shadows in my photos which you can see below : 







I'm using an area 80cm wide with a 60cm length so I can't get my lights down the side of background which is a grey paper roll. 
I've got a large silver reflector but this isn't making any difference. The shadows beneath the bowls is my main issue, I can crop the other one out. 



Currently I'm using two softboxes with a 5500k colour temperature, they have five bulbs in each light with an internal diffuser. 
A 7d with 18-135mm lens and I'm using the internal flash on this.

To give you an idea of settings I'm using a 1/50 shutter, F5, auto iso and shooting raw. 

I don't really want to correct these in post process so any help here would be greatly appreciated!

* Just to note the lights are just there for reference, I don't normally set them up unlevel.


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## Benjamin2 (Aug 14, 2012)

I'm thinking of getting a ring flash to resolve the issue.. thoughts anyone? .. please


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## KmH (Aug 14, 2012)

Raise the product, or lower the lights. You might also get by by using a couple of white reflectors low on each side of the product to reflect some light under the object to fill the shadows. Some white foamboard would work. Some black foamboard can be used to subtract light.

However, you really need more lights than what you have in your set up, and your softboxes look like they don't have an internal diffusion panel.

If you don't already have it, get the book - Light Science and Magic, Fourth Edition: An Introduction to Photographic Lighting


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## cgipson1 (Aug 14, 2012)

^What Keith said!

Get the softboxes closer to the subject, more on a horizontal axis! Right now, you are throwing light at a strong downward angle... and the light source cant reach where the shadows are! 

Does this make sense to you? (I know.. I am a lousy freehand artist)


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## Benjamin2 (Aug 14, 2012)

KmH said:


> Raise the product, or lower the lights. You might also get by by using a couple of white reflectors low on each side of the product to reflect some light under the object to fill the shadows. Some white foamboard would work. Some black foamboard can be used to subtract light.
> 
> However, you really need more lights than what you have in your set up, and your softboxes look like they don't have an internal diffusion panel.
> 
> If you don't already have it, get the book - Light Science and Magic, Fourth Edition: An Introduction to Photographic Lighting



Thanks!!! Keith, I'l purchase the book. In the meantime, what would you recommend? I don't have a lot of space to play with so I'm thinking a third softbox isn't really an option. I need something small, cheap and effective.. 

By defuser your talking about the sheet between the softbox cover and the light? each has one but I guess they aren't diffusing the light very well/ or it's just the picture.. I'l check this later on.


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## Benjamin2 (Aug 14, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> ^What Keith said!
> 
> Get the softboxes closer to the subject, more on a horizontal axis! Right now, you are throwing light at a strong downward angle... and the light source cant reach where the shadows are!
> 
> ...



Loving the diagram Charlie, really helpful! ... I get what you are saying I'l give this a go in a moment and see what happens.. If this doesn't work I have a table I can use to raise the product up. I do have another issue to resolve after this but I won't confuse matters just yet. 

You guys are lifesavers! ... thanking you!


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## Derrel (Aug 14, 2012)

*Mad diagramming skilz for the win!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*YES!!! I think we need more of this kind of helpfulness on TPF. 

"A picture is worth a thousand words."


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## cgipson1 (Aug 14, 2012)

Derrel said:


> *Mad diagramming skilz for the win!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> *YES!!! I think we need more of this kind of helpfulness on TPF.
> 
> "A picture is worth a thousand words."



Why thank you, Derrel! It is rudimentary, but I think it gets the point across!


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## cgipson1 (Aug 14, 2012)

Benjamin2 said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> > ^What Keith said!
> ...



I just hope it helps! lol! And yes... read that book!


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## Benjamin2 (Aug 14, 2012)

Okay,  so I tried it again with the setup in the image below... 



and ended up with this result : 



Thoughts anyone?


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## cgipson1 (Aug 14, 2012)

flip your softboxes horizontal!

move them down further.. get the bottom of the softbox on almost the same axis as the bottom of the bowl! Softboxes are still too high.. maybe too far away. 

move the two softboxes together, leaving just enough room to shoot through!

Try it.. see what happens

In the image I drew for you.. where are the bottoms of the softboxes in comparison to the bottom of the subject? 

Also.. turn a softbox.. take a shot of the softbox while lit.... I want to check for hotspots.... cheap lights / softboxes often have hotspots, and don't soften light that well!


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## Benjamin2 (Aug 14, 2012)

Okay now I feel stupid, I see what you mean! ... 

will try again soon and take image of softbox 

Thanks again!


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## cgipson1 (Aug 14, 2012)

Benjamin2 said:


> Okay now I feel stupid, I see what you mean! ...
> 
> will try again soon and take image of softbox
> 
> Thanks again!



Ain't no Stupid about it!  Just have to learn... We all stupid until we learn, right?  lol!


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## Benjamin2 (Aug 14, 2012)

Yes indeed! ... I've rotated the hoods now so i'l give this a go tomorrow...


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## gsgary (Aug 14, 2012)

And don't shoot on auto ISO if you are shooting with studio flash you should be on manual settings


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## Compaq (Aug 14, 2012)

Derrel said:


> *Mad diagramming skilz for the win!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> *YES!!! I think we need more of this kind of helpfulness on TPF.
> 
> "A picture is worth a thousand words."




The softbox is even drawn with a soft brush. Epic pedagogical abilities!


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## cgipson1 (Aug 14, 2012)

gsgary said:


> And don't shoot on auto ISO if you are shooting with studio flash you should be on manual settings



Constant light here, Gary!


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## cgipson1 (Aug 14, 2012)

Compaq said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> > *Mad diagramming skilz for the win!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> ...



You noticed! lol! I thought it was appropriate!


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## kundalini (Aug 14, 2012)

On product photography, I personally like to see some shadow on the floor.  It gives a sense of foundation, anchoring even, rather than a product just floating in the air.  Just my 2¢.




cgipson1 said:


> Constant light here, Gary!


Irrelevant IMO.  The OP should be shooting in Manual mode and have the ISO to his camera's native setting.


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## cgipson1 (Aug 14, 2012)

kundalini said:


> On product photography, I personally like to see some shadow on the floor.  It gives a sense of foundation, anchoring even, rather than a product just floating in the air.  Just my 2¢.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes!!! I didn't address that.. merely that it was not flash! 

I too, don't mind a touch of shadow.. but the OP doesn't want any...


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## Benjamin2 (Aug 14, 2012)

gsgary said:


> And don't shoot on auto ISO if you are shooting with studio flash you should be on manual settings



Okay Gary i'l dig my light metre out and play around with the iso tomorrow.. I've always gone auto with this because it's made matters worse.. I have been using auto white balance however so I'm imagining this is why


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## cgipson1 (Aug 14, 2012)

Benjamin2 said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> > And don't shoot on auto ISO if you are shooting with studio flash you should be on manual settings
> ...



I hadn't realized that.... I guess I should have checked!  With auto anything, you never know what you are going to get. You should be setting ISO in native as was mentioned, and setting a custom white balance.. especially with constant lights.


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## Benjamin2 (Aug 15, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> Benjamin2 said:
> 
> 
> > gsgary said:
> ...



Native?


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## KmH (Aug 15, 2012)

Many DSLR cameras have an expanded ISO range.

ISO is normally controlled (native ISO) on the image sensor by amplifier circuits that boost the voltages (signal gain) the pixels develop during an exposure. The increase in the signal gain is done before the signal goes through the Analog-to-Digital converter. In other words the ISO is done using analog hardware.

ISO accomplished in the expanded ISO range is done using the camera's image processor software. A result of which is a decease in the overall dynamic range in the photograph and the introduction of various undesirable image artifacts and effects.


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## Benjamin2 (Aug 16, 2012)

So I dug the light metre out, went native Iso and custom white balance.. 

this is what I ended up with, which I'm quite happy with : 






Thanks everyone!


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## Benjamin2 (Aug 16, 2012)

New problem! 

new product... 

same setup 

again I think this is a lighting issue but I can't seem to resolve it myself.. 

I've got some reflections going on ... 





I've got foam board both white and black but it doesn't seem to be doing anything here..

Thoughts would be greatly appreciated!


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## cgipson1 (Aug 16, 2012)

SCRIM.... large modifier! Have you read that book yet?


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## Benjamin2 (Aug 16, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> SCRIM.... large modifier! Have you read that book yet?



I will when it arrives


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## cgipson1 (Aug 16, 2012)

Benjamin2 said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> > SCRIM.... large modifier! Have you read that book yet?
> ...



Good man! Looks pretty good, btw!


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## KmH (Aug 16, 2012)

Like billards or snooker, hotspots and reflections are all about the angle of the offending surface to the light or to whatever is being reflected.


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## Benjamin2 (Aug 20, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> Benjamin2 said:
> 
> 
> > cgipson1 said:
> ...



Thanks, I've been reading the book.. really informative and easy to understand..


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## Jwestmorelandphoto (Aug 24, 2012)

Just from experience, most product photography is now shot just like you've done, and dropped out with a path to a white only background.  If you do need a shadow, it is created in black only, to eliminate any scumdot produced when you go to print.  Very rarely do you shoot to eliminate the shadow anymore.  it's all post processing.


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## mjhoward (Aug 24, 2012)

It's almost as if you've tried, successfully I might add, to get the flattest light possible.  You subjects have no depth.  If you cut off the top portions of the bowls they would look like flat pieces of wood.


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