# Help Shadows with White Backdrop?



## rprimeau95 (Apr 15, 2008)

Ok I am new to using a studio and all the lighting I took some nice shots of my son with white backdrop but almost all of them had a shadow? I tried moving the lights all different ways but still they seemed to remain? what is the best way to eliminate these shadows when in studio using white backdrops? My pics were to big to post here so I uploaded them to photobucket I don't have privileges to post in the gallery here. Let me say I am shooting in RAW-JPEG and I am not used to shooting in Raw I notice that they are all graining a lot of noise I have to remove when editing which I don't know if that is suppose to be that way? 

All have Shodows

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/primeau/6960.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/primeau/6960b.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/primeau/6989.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/primeau/7017.jpg

Edited
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/primeau/7011.jpg
Before Editing very dark in spite of using all the studio flash I must have my camera in the wrong setting.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/primeau/IMG_7011.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/primeau/7007.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/primeau/6996.jpg

Same day and backdrop no shadow
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/primeau/6973.jpg


A few days before did my daughter same backdrop white but I used more lighting on her and did not get those shadows
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/primeau/6704b.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/primeau/6896g.jpg

I have a maternity shoot on Saturday and one more practice day at the studio and need to figure out how to not get these shadows unless I only use black background


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## Dubious Drewski (Apr 15, 2008)

Well I think it's pretty clear that these shadows are showing up because your lights are in front of your subjects. There's not much more to it than that.  A good way to counter this (beyond moving your lights) is to get some distance between your subject and your backdrop.  

But if you are willing to move your lights, as a basic setup, I would recommend shooting from both sides of the subject with softboxes or umbrellas.

Oh and by the way, I like that one shot of the girl, so I touched up the photo a bit. What do you think?


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## KhronoS (Apr 15, 2008)

Dubious Drewski is right. The shadows appear because the flash is in front of the model. Some tips would be to move the model a few feet away from the backdrop, or try putting the lights in different positions. I could give you some exact positions but i don't know what lights/flashes you're using.

I would strongly recommend to read http://www.strobist.blogspot.com/


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## Battou (Apr 15, 2008)

As has been mentioned, move away from the backdrop a bit. 

Also, try to get the strongest of your lights up above the subject and cast the shadows downward and out of frame, if possible.


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## SallyE (Apr 15, 2008)

As the others have said, the light is in front of the subject who is too close to the backdrop as well which is making it worse. Can you remember how you set your lights up with the girl? You certainly will get better results with soft lights to each side, resonably high up and at about 45 degree angle to subject. You are only going to lose the shadow if you get some light falling between the subject and the backdrop.


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## asfixiate (Apr 15, 2008)

Looks like you're having fun with the studio.  Are your kids into having their pictures taken or are you bribing them?

They seem into it.


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## JerryPH (Apr 15, 2008)

You need to spend some time on www.strobist.com


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## rprimeau95 (Apr 16, 2008)

Dubious Drewski said:


> Well I think it's pretty clear that these shadows are showing up because your lights are in front of your subjects. There's not much more to it than that.  A good way to counter this (beyond moving your lights) is to get some distance between your subject and your backdrop.
> 
> But if you are willing to move your lights, as a basic setup, I would recommend shooting from both sides of the subject with softboxes or umbrellas.
> 
> Oh and by the way, I like that one shot of the girl, so I touched up the photo a bit. What do you think?




Well when you say lights are right in front of my subject I didn't have the m directly in front of subject I had them off to the sides at a 45 degree angle first then I moved them as far back as on the sides next to the backdrop like facing behind him and still got the shadows. I didn't use the soft box on him this time maybe I should have. I used the umbrella and a small one not sure what kind and I had a reflector to bounce the light


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## rprimeau95 (Apr 16, 2008)

JerryPH said:


> You need to spend some time on www.strobist.com




I did go here when you recommended  this site before about the flashes I will check it out more on lights 

Here is my studio







and below is the room we were in





see how far the board is set up on the floor away from the backdrop is that far enough away from the backdrop a few of you mentioned move subject away from wall. Look on the right hand side near the opening to the reception area I even put one of the lights over there behind him at a 45 degree angle then facing towards the wall behind him not on the back ground but straight behind him hitting the wall I did that last all seemed to give me that darn shadow. 

view of me facing the background






side view of same area
















view walking in from reception area behind the backdrop area






I had the white backdrop down and here are the lights they have another white box available in the back room but it isn't set up and i am not sure how to set it up yet.


here are the other rooms 

Reception area 










when you go through the double tan doors in the room above this is the room on the other side





this room is pretty dark










this is the blue backdrop in this room and the lighting set up.





I don't remember the name of the brand of lights but it has a honey bee on it ?






go through this door to back room


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## rprimeau95 (Apr 16, 2008)

Dubious Drewski said:


> Well I think it's pretty clear that these shadows are showing up because your lights are in front of your subjects. There's not much more to it than that.  A good way to counter this (beyond moving your lights) is to get some distance between your subject and your backdrop.
> 
> But if you are willing to move your lights, as a basic setup, I would recommend shooting from both sides of the subject with softboxes or umbrellas.
> 
> Oh and by the way, I like that one shot of the girl, so I touched up the photo a bit. What do you think?




I forgot to mention your touch up lightening up the pic of my daughter was nice thanks

question when using the umbrellas is there a time to use them facing open towards a subject and then other times to turn around from the subject facing the wall? thanks


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## rprimeau95 (Apr 16, 2008)

asfixiate said:


> Looks like you're having fun with the studio.  Are your kids into having their pictures taken or are you bribing them?
> 
> They seem into it.



nope no bribing LOL my son is a ham and loves to pose always has that is also him last summer in my avatar. He has changed so much in 10 months time.


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## SallyE (Apr 16, 2008)

That looks like a great studio set-up you have there with the different rooms etc. Great potential to take some wonderful studio shots.

What you could do is set up your lights again - using the softbox you mentioned - and see if you are still getting shadows. If you are then simply turn off each light in turn and see if you can eliminate which light or lights is actually causing the problem.

Once you have worked out which of your lights (it may be more than one) is causing this then you can set about rectifying the problem - soften the light further, move the light further back from your subject (still maintain the 45 degree angle though), or turn the power down.

Once you are happy with the set-up, draw a sketch of your background, where the subject is distance-wise from background, and where each of the lights are making sure you jot down the light's settings. File it for later reference - each time you make a new lighting set-up you could do the same and then you will have a file for easy reference of what you did previously and worked to achieve a particular effect. In time you will have a good referencing system for your lighting set-ups which your or an assistant can look at and save time - and you will soon remember the ones you use most frequently.

But certainly have a go with the process of elimination with your lights and see what effect each one has just by itself, and then how it works in conjunction with the other lights. You'll soon get it sorted out, dont worry, just keep practising and experimenting.


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## rprimeau95 (Apr 16, 2008)

thank you very much for your suggestions will do so


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## SallyE (Apr 16, 2008)

The key is to do it as a process of elimination - just change one thing at a time and see the effect it has. It takes time but its time worth spending to get it just how you would like it.


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## JerryPH (Apr 16, 2008)

Only at the beginning.. then its not a process of elimination, but starting from point A, then B, then C to get the effect you want.

Some of the best strobists that I know work that way. They don't just plunk down 4 lights and shoot, they start with 1 light, measure the effects (chimping or light meter), and add until they have reached their goal. If they reach the goal with 1 strobe, so be it... if it takes 12 strobes and 6 reflectors, well they can do that too.  At each step they know what direction they want to go and what the next step is.

Apparently that level of competancy comes fast if you practice a lot.


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## Flash Harry (Apr 16, 2008)

First, your boy is far too near the backdrop, second, your light at your left shoulder is acting as key, (too close or higher power) thus causing the shadow, third, you should have the backdrop evenly lit at least 1 stop brighter than the subject lighting, ie 1 stop=f22 METERED on backdrop, subject lit to f16 METERED, shoot at f16. H


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## rprimeau95 (Apr 16, 2008)

JerryPH said:


> Only at the beginning.. then its not a process of elimination, but starting from point A, then B, then C to get the effect you want.
> 
> Some of the best strobists that I know work that way. They don't just plunk down 4 lights and shoot, they start with 1 light, measure the effects (chimping or light meter), and add until they have reached their goal. If they reach the goal with 1 strobe, so be it... if it takes 12 strobes and 6 reflectors, well they can do that too.  At each step they know what direction they want to go and what the next step is.
> 
> Apparently that level of competancy comes fast if you practice a lot.



I kind of did this with my daughter I tried each light then added however we were in the room with the rubber brick backdrop that room is much darker. 

I did then take her to the room where the white backdrop was and we didn't have the shadows however we used the soft box for her she was also the same distance from the back drop. If you see the pictures of that room where they have the wood on the floor should I pull that out farther? what would you say approx how many feet from the backdrop should one stand?

I found a lot of video on youtube today and was watching  about lighting tips and set ups hoping tomorrow when i go I can come back better at it LOL.

I will apply all that I have learned this week. Maybe for now when i shoot my maternity shoot on Saturday I will stick with black backdrops. 

another thing I don't have a light meter yet I know I need one not sure what to buy what is decent any suggestions I am guessing I should have one?


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## Jim H (Apr 16, 2008)

Jerry and Harry kind of hit on it already ... just want to reiterate the importance of metering your lights to gain the desired lighting ratio you are trying for (and for the billionth time - get some distance between the subject and the back drop). EVERYONE has thier own way of doing it - which makes this a very subjective discussion.

Meter and practice .. then practice some more until you get the results YOU are looking for.


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## Jim H (Apr 16, 2008)

Missed the light meter question ... sorry

This one will allow you to plug right into the back or you ABs and fire the flash with the meter and read the value at the same time.


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## RebelTasha (Apr 16, 2008)

Can I ask how you edited that really dark noisy one and made it like you did?
I really love the edited version despite the shadow it's a really fun pose and the hair looks great!
I also really like the last two of your daughter!


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## JerryPH (Apr 16, 2008)

Jim H said:


> Missed the light meter question ... sorry
> 
> This one will allow you to plug right into the back or you ABs and fire the flash with the meter and read the value at the same time.


 
Not a coincidence, thats a very well known and liked meter.  I will be adding that one to my collection some time, but for now, I use an old 1980's analog Honeywell meter that works very well for my studio light playing.  There's a second SB-800 thats on the list in front of the light meter.


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## Jim H (Apr 16, 2008)

JerryPH said:


> Not a coincidence, thats a very well known and liked meter.  I will be adding that one to my collection some time, but for now, I use an old 1980's analog Honeywell meter that works very well for my studio light playing.  There's a second SB-800 thats on the list in front of the light meter.


I love it. Plug into each strobe individually, or into the AB four in one controller. Set your shutter speed and pop/adjust each one until you get your desired f/stop. Sometimes takes a little chimping afterwards .. but gets danged close - real time saver!


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## rprimeau95 (Apr 16, 2008)

RebelTasha said:


> Can I ask how you edited that really dark noisy one and made it like you did?
> I really love the edited version despite the shadow it's a really fun pose and the hair looks great!
> I also really like the last two of your daughter!



Well several steps in my Paint Shop Pro XII

I can't say by memory I do it so fast I don't think about it when I edit, but the next one I do I will write down what I do and let you know if you like


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## rprimeau95 (Apr 16, 2008)

Jim H said:


> Missed the light meter question ... sorry
> 
> This one will allow you to plug right into the back or you ABs and fire the flash with the meter and read the value at the same time.



do you have to have this Sekonic RT-32 Radio Transmitter Module for L-358 
or is this an optional item?


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## Flash Harry (Apr 17, 2008)

no, not required, simply connect with a sync lead. H


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## Jim H (Apr 17, 2008)

rprimeau95 said:


> do you have to have this Sekonic RT-32 Radio Transmitter Module for L-358
> or is this an optional item?


 Just wanted to quickly reiterate what flash harry said and further elaborate that if you don't have the wireless trigger(s) for your strobes, the optional module is of little value until you do.


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## theboffin (Apr 18, 2008)

ive not had time to read all the posts so sorry if any of this has already beed covered,

2 main things to watch
1, stand your subject AT LEAST there own height away from the backdrop.
2 as well as lighting the subject, light your backdrop evenly using seperate lights, setting these lights about 2 stops over exposed, to 'blow out' any shadows.

try experimenting with this idea try not to let the rear lights bleed onto your subject tho

hope that helps


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## Village Idiot (Apr 18, 2008)

Start off with only one light too and move it, write down the settings, and match to the pictures afterrwards to see what exactly you did to get that result. Also, unless you're doing a very specific or stylized portrait, bare lights are not usually preferred. They' just too harsh and the shadows they create are just too much.


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