# Taking photos of light



## jakedoza (Mar 14, 2013)

I have been taking photos for quite some time now, but I have come across a challenge that goes against everything you learn as a photographer in the area of white balance. Here is what I am trying to accomplish.
I have a customer that wants pictures of some aquarium lighting, but they want me to capture the exact color of the lights so they can be used in comparison to each other for their customer base to view on their website. Now I know what you are going to say, because I have said it to my customer. You will never portray the exact color of light from a photo on a website that is viewed on thousands of different computer monitors and devices.. They still want me to do it.. The next question would be, do I have them make each fixture in the colors they want portrayed, or do I simply use post process and use color temperature to simulate it? If I use Photoshop/Lightroom, how do I take a photo and then get the exact color temperature?

Thanks in advance for your ideas


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## bratkinson (Mar 15, 2013)

I've never taken shots of an aquarium, so those with experience may call me 'all wet'.  

First, the issue is how to get good shots of the fish and their surroundings without reflections in the glass from the store/house/garage the aquarium is in.  I'd start with a darkened room.  If it's a store, do it after hours.  One scenario to prevent reflections is to get a rubber hood for your lens and press it up against the glass of the tank.  But to my thinking, unless you have a wide lens, say 24mm or wider, up against the glass isn't going to give a full picture of the tank.  It all depends on how big the tank is, I guess.

As far as getting the colors right, here's where I'm really all wet...buy a grey card and attach it with a small clamp to a piece of dowel or something similar and put it in the tank!  Then take a picture of the grey card under EACH lighting situation.  2 clicks in Lightroom and the WB is perfect!

Lastly, setting the exposure on your camera will have to be in the no-flash, movement-stopping shutter speed to 'freeze' the fish.  Having your camera on a tripod is a major help, as well.  Depending on how dim the lighting is, you may have to push the ISO into the somewhat noisy range to get the shot and correct the noise in post.


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## Designer (Mar 15, 2013)

bratkinson; It's the lights, not the fish.

jake; it seems to me that if you just set the same white balance and take the photos, the lights should look the way they are, that is; different from each other.   Set each above a white card that will reflect the light toward your lens.  Eliminate any other light in the room.

I wouldn't worry about trying to calibrate for several million different displays, because you can't do it.


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## tirediron (Mar 15, 2013)

Set your camera's WB for tungsten (normal household interior lighting) shoot the lights, and adjust to customer's preference in post.


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## jakedoza (Mar 15, 2013)

bratkinson said:


> I've never taken shots of an aquarium, so those with experience may call me 'all wet'.
> 
> First, the issue is how to get good shots of the fish and their surroundings without reflections in the glass from the store/house/garage the aquarium is in. I'd start with a darkened room. If it's a store, do it after hours. One scenario to prevent reflections is to get a rubber hood for your lens and press it up against the glass of the tank. But to my thinking, unless you have a wide lens, say 24mm or wider, up against the glass isn't going to give a full picture of the tank. It all depends on how big the tank is, I guess.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the response.. As far as getting shots of the fish and/or corals that isn't the issue at hand, and I have plenty of experience with what you have described. That in itself is a big challenge and can go way beyond even what you have described. You are welcome to check out my sea life images on my website (JAM Session Photography), as well as:

http://www.jakesplace.info/jamsessiongallery

You will need to create a user and pass to access the second gallery though. 




Designer said:


> bratkinson; It's the lights, not the fish.
> 
> jake; it seems to me that if you just set the same white balance and take the photos, the lights should look the way they are, that is; different from each other.   Set each above a white card that will reflect the light toward your lens.  Eliminate any other light in the room.
> 
> I wouldn't worry about trying to calibrate for several million different displays, because you can't do it.




I have actually thought about that approach except that the client doesn't want a white card or grey card in the photo.

I have thought about just setting my camera color to 6000k and shooting the tank and then calculating the color differences from there.. It will still be a challenge though, and I'm not sure how to get a 10000k light to look like a 14000k light when my camera is set to 6000k. When I open a raw image into PS I can adjust the color based on a number, but that number is not the actual light temperature. The higher the temperature the more blue it should appear not the opposite, which is how PS works. That is my hurdle..


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## 480sparky (Mar 15, 2013)

jakedoza said:


> .........I have actually thought about that approach except that the client doesn't want a white card or grey card in the photo........



How to use a Gray Card 101:

Take one shot WITH the gray card, and another WITHOUT it.  Use the shot with the gray card to read the color temperature in post, then use that setting and apply it to the shot without the card.


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## curtyoungblood (Mar 15, 2013)

> The next question would be, do I have them make each fixture in the colors they want portrayed, or do I simply use post process and use color temperature to simulate it?



I would definitely do the former. Faking it in photoshop is way too likely to get results that don't really look that much like the light actually does. The advertised color temperature of the light may or may not be all the close to the real color temperature. Also, it seems to me that it should be as easy as changing out bulbs between shots.

I think the most important part of this project is to keep the white balance constant. Make sure you set it to something and don't use automatic. As long as the white balance is static, it should show how the color shifts between different lights. (My inclination is to find whatever light is advertised as white and white balance from it)


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## KmH (Mar 15, 2013)

jakedoza said:


> I have actually thought about that approach except that the client doesn't want a white card or grey card in the photo.


+1 to what Ken (480sparky) said 
That approach is your only solution - having a known color reference in one image for the purpose of doing accurate post production.


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## Designer (Mar 15, 2013)

So you're going to try to get the color of the light to show up while shooting the actual aquarium, and not simply the light.  Is that correct?  It sure seems you've chosen the most difficult way to do this.  

When I say "white card", I didn't mean a business card, I mean something the size of a chunk of poster board.  Large enough to show the light housing included in the frame.  It's probably a good thing I'm not trying to sell aquarium lights.

Good luck!


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## Buckster (Mar 15, 2013)

When we look at an aquarium and note the color of the light, it is in reference to the ambient light of the room we and the aquarium are in.  In a room lit by sunlight, it's going to appear to our eyes differently than a room lit by tungsten, different again by a room lit with fluorescent, different again in a room lit with black lights, different again in a room lit with a whole bunch more of the same aquarium light or no other ambient light at all - just the glow of the tank.

Our eyes and brains would simply adjust accordingly, but different ambient light sources will render different results photographically - a common thing we deal with in photography, but with a twist in this scenario.

I think that's going to be the real problem to tackle.

I think a gray card is the solution, as Sparky said.  However, if you gray card the aquarium light, it's just going to balance back to neutral gray for you in order to render "proper" colors of anything that would be lit by that aquarium light.

In conjunction with what I stated to be the real problem (again, IMHO), you'll need to gray card in whatever ambient light they want to compare the aquarium light to, then white balance to THAT in order to render the aquarium light it's correct color, which will be relative to that particular ambient light.


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## jakedoza (Mar 19, 2013)

I agree with what you said about the grey card as well as the ambient light stuff.. That is my issue, everything is wanting to balance back out and that is exactly what I do not want to happen. This isn't my first rodeo shooting an aquarium, as far as ambient light is concerned.. the light over the aquarium will be the only light on in the room. There will be no ambient light.
As far as changing out the bulbs. These are manufactured LED fixtures and each light fixture would have to be manufactured. It isn't as simple as just changing out a bulb, but if they want a good photo they may have to manufacture each one they want a photo of.
I would also just shoot the light against a white wall, but the customer wants it over an aquarium..


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## jakedoza (Mar 19, 2013)

curtyoungblood said:


> > The next question would be, do I have them make each fixture in the colors they want portrayed, or do I simply use post process and use color temperature to simulate it?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think that this may be probably the most accurate way to do this.. even though it may not end up being an exact representation..


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## jakedoza (Mar 30, 2013)

kraj8995 said:


> Simply take clicks of aquarium and then make different textures of it by changing their temperature in Photoshop.​



The temperature represented in Photoshop is not light temperature.. The higher the number should be the more blue it is.. not the opposite, which is the way it is in Photoshop..


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## tirediron (Mar 30, 2013)

jakedoza said:


> kraj8995 said:
> 
> 
> > Simply take clicks of aquarium and then make different textures of it by changing their temperature in Photoshop.​
> ...


It is - it doesn't necessaily make sense, but it is.


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## IByte (Mar 30, 2013)

480sparky said:


> How to use a Gray Card 101:
> 
> Take one shot WITH the gray card, and another WITHOUT it.  Use the shot with the gray card to read the color temperature in post, then use that setting and apply it to the shot without the card.



Or he could customize his wb by importing the file in "PRE".


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