# Flash Diffuser.



## Markw (Oct 26, 2009)

I will be getting the Nikon SB-600 soon and I was looking at diffusers.  I have been using a piece of paper towel or tissue over the pop-up flash for a while now, and with the SB-600, I didnt want to have to do this.  Its a good flash, I think itd be good to have a good diffuser.  

So, the question is: What type of diffuser is best suited as the most versitile diffuser that can be used in alot of situations?  I was thinking mainly for indoor portrait or exhibit work.  I have seen many different ones, some that unfold into a thin hang on plate, some that are inflatable, some that look like a softbox (These, I like the look of), and some that just clip onto the front of the head of the flash.  Can anyone help me out here?

Thanks in advance.
Mark


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## PhotoXopher (Oct 26, 2009)

Gary Fong LightSphere is what I'd get.


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## Markw (Oct 26, 2009)

Ive heard mixed reviews about that, that there are less expensive, similar models that do relatively the same good job.  Do you have experience with it?  If so, how do you like it? 

Also, could you tell me the difference between the crystal-looking version and the white plastic-looking version?

Mark


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## camz (Oct 26, 2009)

I say the stofen is probably the most versatile of all from my experience.  Expecially if you're going to use it indoors - great for both on and off camera work.


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## camz (Oct 26, 2009)

Just found a link through google for ratings on the various types here .

Although I've tried various I've stuck with 3. Stofen, snoot, and a softbox. Everything else didn't really fit or vibe with my style but I think the
stofen is the best general purpose.


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## musicaleCA (Oct 26, 2009)

The Fong Dong bounces light everywhere, but, it bounces light everywhere. You don't get control.

If you want flexibility in a myriad of situations, get the Presslite Vertex. That thing is on my primary flash (the one I always have with me) all the time; I rarely take it all off, just the panels for storage, and if I take off the rest I'm doing a shoot and need to use other light modifiers. You asked what was the most versatile, and I think that the Vertex is hands-down the most versatile diffuser around. I've used it to bounce flash and create one, two, or three directional sources, or even as a simple flag and using bare zoomed-in bounce flash.


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## IgsEMT (Oct 26, 2009)

For longest time, I've used stofen for sb600 and sb800 and they do the job but if the subject is close to the wall it leaves nasty shadows. Fong diffuser, I also heard mixed reviews plus its price of $40-50 or so isn't attractive.
*My solution* - DIY foam paper. Some folks use it as a bounce card, I'm actually shooting through it, and it gives me similar (not exact) results as a softbox would. It might look silly but so as soup-can on the flash, the only difference is that 8 1/2x11 sheet cost $0.99 + velcro (another $3) versus 40 or 50 USDs whatever Fong's cost.
If you want to see the effects with it, PM me and I'll send you results with both.
Good Luck


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## DScience (Oct 26, 2009)

musicaleCA said:


> The Fong Dong bounces light everywhere, but, it bounces light everywhere. You don't get control.
> 
> If you want flexibility in a myriad of situations, get the Presslite Vertex. That thing is on my primary flash (the one I always have with me) all the time; I rarely take it all off, just the panels for storage, and if I take off the rest I'm doing a shoot and need to use other light modifiers. You asked what was the most versatile, and I think that the Vertex is hands-down the most versatile diffuser around. I've used it to bounce flash and create one, two, or three directional sources, or even as a simple flag and using bare zoomed-in bounce flash.



I'm sorry but you CAN control it. Here are just several shots I took using the GF diffuser on a sb-600 handheld off camera. 

The GF pwns. For around $50, i think it is a very good deal.


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## camz (Oct 26, 2009)

Dscience very nice shots.  With the G. Fong I think you can control it as far as intensity however controlling the specific direction of spread, it is much more difficult to do so as it was designed to diffuse on a very wide spectrum.


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## ssnxp (Oct 27, 2009)

I'm also looking for a diffuser/bouncer right now, and I think I've narrowed them down to the:

Gfong Collapsible: Lightsphere Collapsible
Sto-Fen Omnibounce: STO-FEN Store - Omni-Bounce Page
Harbor Digital: http://www.harbordigitaldesign.com/bouncediffusers-1.aspx

I'm leaning towards the Gfong, but I'm not sure if I like it just because it's popular..


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## ANDS! (Oct 27, 2009)

> I'm sorry but you CAN control it.



All you control is the originating angle and direction of the initial outburst of light.  MCA is correct in that after that you have no real way of controlling where the bounced light goes.

Thats not supposition - its just science.

EDIT:  Wow I Just looked at the cost of some of those items. . .Jesus Christ they have got a racket going on.  For that cost just toss a sock on the end of your flash and call it a day.


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## inTempus (Oct 27, 2009)

You can't control the light from the Fong, it does in fact blast light everywhere which is a waste of light - especially when you need that light for something useful.  Dscience is using the $50 Fong just like one would use a $11 Sto-Fen.

We've talked about this in great detail recently in other threads.  Instead of reposting everything, here's the links to those threads which include sample shots taken with the Fong and the Sto-Fen:

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...181324-flash-accessories-what-do-they-do.html

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...y/178845-gary-fong-diffuser-during-day-3.html

The Fong is a $50 paperweight that sits in my closet and the Sto-Fen goes everywhere with me.


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## inTempus (Oct 27, 2009)

Wait a minute, I just realized something, you just started a similar thread 7 days ago:

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...181324-flash-accessories-what-do-they-do.html


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## fiveoboy01 (Oct 27, 2009)

He thinks you're cute and hopes you'll post in his threads:scratch:


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## Overread (Oct 27, 2009)

most of my points are in the linked thread above - but to sum up - don't Forget the Lumiquest softbox - or similar design of home make. ITs more suited to direct aimed flash outside than say a fong or a stofen since both of those are designed to throw light away from the flash to then bounce off walls and thus return to the subject. They work because the walls become the source of the light and since they are many times the size of the flash head the resulting light is diffused far more.
When outside they are in effect throwing away more power whilst giving a little diffusion - so its more like simply using flashunderexposure. Whilst a softbox design is working by increases the direct source of the flash light - of course the bigger the box you go the more diffusion you get.


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## inTempus (Oct 27, 2009)

Overread said:


> most of my points are in the linked thread above - but to sum up - don't Forget the Lumiquest softbox - or similar design of home make. ITs more suited to direct aimed flash outside than say a fong or a stofen since both of those are designed to throw light away from the flash to then bounce off walls and thus return to the subject. They work because the walls become the source of the light and since they are many times the size of the flash head the resulting light is diffused far more.
> When outside they are in effect throwing away more power whilst giving a little diffusion - so its more like simply using flashunderexposure. Whilst a softbox design is working by increases the direct source of the flash light - of course the bigger the box you go the more diffusion you get.


I agree, the Sto-Fen isn't the ideal solution and there are better options for defusion (such as the Lumiquest).  I use Sto-Fen the way I do because of it's small size and ease of use.  I can stick it in my pocket, pull it out quickly, mount it quickly, it can be packed in my crammed bag without fear of being damaged and it gives me the desired effect.  I don't want to fiddle with a collapsible softbox.

I don't use the Fong because it's huge (doesn't even come close to fitting in my bag) and it doesn't do anything I can't already do with either a bare bounce flash or my Sto-Fen.


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## Big Mike (Oct 27, 2009)

The best flash accessory is...knowledge of how to use your flash and knowledge of how light works.


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## Markw (Oct 27, 2009)

The thread a while ago wasnt necessarily about choosing a diffuser, it asked what it did and what the gels do.  With that title, I didnt know if anyone would actually look at the thread and answer the question that I would have posted at the end of the thread instead of at the beginning.  I will e picking up the softbox.  I was using a friends this morning and I do like how it works.  I will also take a look at the ones listed above.  Thanks everyone!

Mark


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## DScience (Oct 27, 2009)

inTempus said:


> I don't use the Fong because it's huge (doesn't even come close to fitting in my bag)* and it doesn't do anything I can't already do with either a bare bounce flash or my Sto-Fen.*




Nice. Let's assume that everyone is using flashes for the same purpose as you. 

With this argument, why even carry the Sto-Fen? I mean if you can do anything with a bare bounce flash as you can with the stofen, why even waste time or energy?

Wait. Is it possible that the stofen allows you to do things the bare bounce won't? 



Wait. Is it possible that the GF allows you to do things that the stofen wont? 

It's fine that you don't like the GF for many reasons, but stop trying to act like it serves no purpose. 

TO THE OP:

I've done my own experiments and tests and the GF diffuser does incredible things that I haven't been able to reproduce using the Stofen, as well as other diffusers.


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## ssnxp (Oct 27, 2009)

Hey Dscience, which GF do you use? I'm thinking about picking up the collapsible one, maybe.


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## Markw (Oct 27, 2009)

After some research, I am seriously considering the Lumiquest Softbox III.  What does everyone think about the GF with the inverted dome for direct lighting shots?  Does this work well?

Thanks again.
Mark


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## PhotoXopher (Oct 27, 2009)

I made my recommendation based off of what I saw the last 3 wedding photographers using at weddings I've been to.

No personal experience, yet.


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## Overread (Oct 27, 2009)

Mark - the softboxe and minisoftbox both still let a speedlite flash use its built in meter for auto flash firing - if you use the larger softbox III you will lose that feature and be on manual flash only.
For a mobile softbox I think its about as big as you can go whilst being able to stay on camera (if you wish) whilst larger softboxes will need you to move the flash off to fit them.


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## inTempus (Oct 27, 2009)

DScience said:


> With this argument, why even carry the Sto-Fen? I mean if you can do anything with a bare bounce flash as you can with the stofen, why even waste time or energy?


I didn't say I can do everything with just a bare flash.  There was an "or" in there.  A Sto-Fen doesn't do any anything without a flash... at least I've not been able to get mine to do much.  It requires a flash to work.  



> Wait. Is it possible that the stofen allows you to do things the bare bounce won't?


I can't believe you figured that out all on your own.    I never said otherwise.  I'm not sure I follow your line of logic.



> Wait. Is it possible that the GF allows you to do things that the stofen wont?


Nope, I've found that with my flash and my Sto-Fen I can do everything I can with a Fong, only cheaper and it doesn't require me to get a backpack to carry around my big dingus device.    

As a matter of fact, can you show a technical comparison of modifiers done by anyone other than Fong that shows the Fong coming in anywhere near the top of the list of most useful flash light modifiers?  



> It's fine that you don't like the GF for many reasons, but stop trying to act like it serves no purpose.


It's fine that you think the Fong is God's gift to flash photography but a bunch of other photogs agree it serves a very narrow purpose - one which other more cost effective products can do.



> I've done my own experiments and tests and the GF diffuser does incredible things that I haven't been able to reproduce using the Stofen, as well as other diffusers.


...things I've shown in my Sto-Fen examples that are actually quite easy to replicate.

What tests have you done?  You asked me to show you what a Sto-Fen could do and to post sample images.  That tells me you didn't test a Sto-Fen against a Fong.  I suspect you've only used a Fong and you've gotten it to give you results you apparently think are unique... which also tells me you haven't tested too many other products as I replicated your results with a few minutes of experimentation with my Sto-Fen.

Can you post some of your test shots from these experiments with different products? I would be curious to see how you arrived at your conclusion the Fong does something unique.


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## Markw (Oct 27, 2009)

Overread- So which model would you reccommend?

Mark


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## kundalini (Oct 27, 2009)

Just to throw in more options.........

*The David Honl system* 

*Alzo Digital* - The softbox and bracket can be purchased separately without getting the flash flip bracket.  I can mount the flash and softbox on a light stand.


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## Overread (Oct 27, 2009)

Depends how you want the diffuser to work 
I'd say for oncamera direct flash in portrait or macro areas the Softbox original is good because it lets you keep your auto flash metering (as well as any assist beams also) - whilst if your working with manual flash more the softbox III might be the better route.

But if your then looking at the softbox III consider how your working again - if its portraits of people with the flash offcamera you could even look at the far larger sofboxes for more diffusion -- and then comes the softbox vs umbrella choice. But of course the larger you go the less mobile you start to become. 

So first work out a little how you intend to work and go from there - also I find that the softbox original is fine for walking around and never really gets in the way - I can't speak for the larger versions


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## inTempus (Oct 27, 2009)

I would also say take a look at the softbox products...  There are a lot of good products out there for defusion.  As pointed out elsewhere, pointing a flash directly at a subject and using a Fong (as Dscience does) or a Sto-Fen (as I've done) isn't how those products were originally intended to be used.   If you're trying to defuse direct flash, check out products designed for that purpose.


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## Markw (Oct 27, 2009)

inTempus said:


> I would also say take a look at the softbox products...


 
Thats what weve been doing. 

That makes perfect sense.  I already have umbrellas.  A while ago, I got two backdrops, two lightstands, three umbrellas (two white, one silver reflector), two lights with bulbs (nothing great, but it does the job), and a tripod.  Free.  Major score for being free!

Anyways, I will look into the smaller versions of this.  I may end up getting both, and a GF, and stofen.  Eventually.  All seem to be good for different reasons, and all seem to work well.  

Thanks again.
Mark


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## Overread (Oct 27, 2009)

Remember what I said in that first thread - be carfull of overloading yourself. 
Best tip is to get things slowly - get used to them and use them when you might not want to - that will give you better ideas of the limits and what you can get away with when in a pinch.


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## Markw (Oct 27, 2009)

Thats what I mean, that I may just eventually get them all.  Up until now, I must have been thinking (for some reason..) that once I got one, I cant get one of the others.  Its not like these are $2000 lenses, so I can always get the others if it turns out I need them.

Thanks all again. 
Mark


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## inTempus (Oct 27, 2009)

I have the opposite opinion.  If you can afford it, buy it and play with it.  If it doesn't suit your needs, sell it or store it away as I have done with my GF.  Perhaps sometime I'll find it does actually do something I can't do with a smaller or otherwise better device.  Who knows.  

I like being able to play with things and to figure out what works for me and what doesn't.  You get a ton of opinions on the internet, some good and others not so good.  Certainly don't take what I say to be the gospel, I just have an opinion... nothing more.


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## Markw (Oct 27, 2009)

That makes alot of sense also, and sounds like alot of fun.  haha.

They are all under $50, so getting a GF and a softbox shouldnt be an issue at all.  Well, I have to pick up the actual flash before I get anything.  So until then, I have plenty of time to decide.  :thumbup:
Mark


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## Derrel (Oct 27, 2009)

The following post is half satirical, half serious:

I just went to the Gary Fong web site and looked at the new collapsible contraption. InTempus mentioned using a $50 Fong diffuser much like an $11 Sto-Fen Omni-bounce. Now that I have seen the video of the newest,latest,greatest Gary Fong flash modifier, I have to put in my vote for
the Oktoberfest Plastic Beer Cup Stack as the newest challenger for the new $49 Fong diverter...who wants to pay $49 when you can get drunk instead AND make a homemade flash diffisuer/attention drawer/compliment earner?

Take a stack of plastic beer glasses from the trash at a baseball game, Oktoberfest beer garden, NBA game, or college football game....stack a bunch of em up, cut the tops off and the bottoms off, then slap the whole stack of them atop of a speedlight and blast away!

Heaven forbid you're afraid of wearing dork jeans when all the cool kids have designer jeans....but the bubble wrap envelope seems to give light as good as the Fong diffuser...your flash power scattered all over he)), people staring at you and thinking, "Man, that guy's the sh*+, he's got a diffuser on top of his flash," Ahhhh, this is the life!!! Bubble wrap, beer cups, styrofoam coffee cup, craft foam Better Bounce Card knock-off, or Sto-Fen Omni-Bounce--they are ALL equally cool-looking. Nothing says, "I know what I am doing, I am a serious shooter," better than a contraption slapped on top of your flash unit.


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## DScience (Oct 27, 2009)

Derrel said:


> The following post is half satirical, half serious:
> 
> I just went to the Gary Fong web site and looked at the new collapsible contraption. InTempus mentioned using a $50 Fong diffuser much like an $11 Sto-Fen Omni-bounce. Now that I have seen the video of the newest,latest,greatest Gary Fong flash modifier, I have to put in my vote for
> the Oktoberfest Plastic Beer Cup Stack as the newest challenger for the new $49 Fong diverter...who wants to pay $49 when you can get drunk instead AND make a homemade flash diffisuer/attention drawer/compliment earner?
> ...




lol I comprehended about 2/3 of what you wrote. But I have to say, I have gotten TONS of girls since I started rockin my Gary Fong on my off camera strobe, while walking around downtown. Seriously, so many girls come up to me and jock the $%*! out all my equipment once they see, the FONG. It attracts people from all angles, and everyone pretty much automatically things i'm a pro. 

This, my friends, is what the extra $40 will get you. They are all right, the GF is no better than the next diffuser, unless you consider the chic-magnet features... :blushing:


ps....I love designer jeans. My jean collection is worth more than my camera set up probably. And....... I wear my pants below the waist which you _older_ folks call "sagging".


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## Markw (Oct 27, 2009)

DScience said:


> Seriously, so many girls come up to me and jock the $%*! out all my equipment once they see,


 
Can we not get into this conversation?  Sorry, but Its one for another time, at another place.  I am not getting a flash so I can attract 'the ladies'.  I, also being younger than most here (no offence to the vets), don't 'sag'.  Not that it has anything to do with my choice of diffusers.  Thanks.

Mark


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## DScience (Oct 27, 2009)

Markw said:


> DScience said:
> 
> 
> > Seriously, so many girls come up to me and jock the $%*! out all my equipment once they see,
> ...



:hail:

Another thing about you: GULLIBLE!


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## Markw (Oct 27, 2009)

Whether you were serious or not, I have seen conversations like this get taken way out of hand around here every once in a while, just trying to prevent that.

Mark


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## BAmereihn (Oct 27, 2009)

camz said:


> Dscience very nice shots.  With the G. Fong I think you can control it as far as intensity however controlling the specific direction of spread, it is much more difficult to do so as it was designed to diffuse on a very wide spectrum.



this may have been mentioned already...still reading the thread but on the fong you can always add tape on the side of the fong that you dont want the light going, of course not clear tape


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## musicaleCA (Oct 28, 2009)

N0YZE said:


> I made my recommendation based off of what I saw the last 3 wedding photographers using at weddings I've been to.
> 
> No personal experience, yet.



Blag, they're doing it because it's easy, not because it's necessarily good. Many of the best wedding 'togs even swear by simple things like a piece of black foamcore and a hairband. All they need is a flag and a wall to bounce off of. Oh, and some cc gels.



DScience said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> > The following post is half satirical, half serious:
> ...



For the love of...Not the point of the thread, nor even the forum I dare say. If you need to use gear to attract ladies, that's too bad. That doesn't mean that it's good, and just because people assume you're a pro because you have it, doesn't make it good, nor you a pro. Period.



BAmereihn said:


> camz said:
> 
> 
> > Dscience very nice shots. With the G. Fong I think you can control it as far as intensity however controlling the specific direction of spread, it is much more difficult to do so as it was designed to diffuse on a very wide spectrum.
> ...



A bare flash with a foamcore flag and headband will always be faster.


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## inTempus (Oct 28, 2009)

I'm amazed that two people took Dscience's post seriously and didn't immediately recognize it as a tongue in cheek post.  :er:


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## Markw (Oct 28, 2009)

So which of the lumiquest softbox models will let your flash still meter?

Mark


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## ssnxp (Oct 28, 2009)

Markw said:


> So which of the lumiquest softbox models will let your flash still meter?
> 
> Mark


LumiQuest® Photographic Accessories | Softbox
According to the video, both the small and medium ones will work with TTL. The large one will block the meter.

Edit: Wait.. I may have a few things mixed up..


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## Overread (Oct 28, 2009)

nopes - the regular and the mini small boxes both allow you to retain metering - its just the softbox III - the very large one - that will cover over the little sensors on the flashgun and thus mean that you have to remain in manual flash


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## Markw (Oct 28, 2009)

Ok, because Amazon has one posting for a softbox II, and I havent seen this anywhere else.

Mark


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## Mystwalker (Oct 28, 2009)

I've used the Gary Fong dome thingy and did not find it very "useful" for me - it seemed very useful to "refresh" (drain) my batteries though 

Today I use Lumiquest 80-20 (URL below).  I mostly shoot indoor and this does the job for me.
Amazon.com: LumiQuest Pro Max 80-20 Bounce Flash Device: Electronics

Another problem I had with GF's dome is the size - even if I were to use Slingshot 300, that thing is HUGE!  Using a Domke F803, only way to transport was to clip it to outside.


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## Overread (Oct 28, 2009)

Markw said:


> Ok, because Amazon has one posting for a softbox II, and I havent seen this anywhere else.
> 
> Mark



lumiquest website 
LumiQuest® Photographic Accessories | Softbox II

"It is designed exclusively for use on bare bulb flashes such as Lumedyne, Quantum Q Flashes and Sunpak 120J."

So nope not the one you want at all

oh and there is a video on that link which talks about the softboxes in general - worth watching


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## Markw (Oct 28, 2009)

I did watch it.  It was very informing and the softbox III is much bigger than I expected.  I will be getting the original softbox, I suppose.  The softbox II isnt on the video either, thats why it was puzzling me. 

Thanks again!
Mark


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## Derrel (Oct 28, 2009)

The plain Lumiquest "softbox" is designed for shoe mount flashes, while the model II is for bare-bulb flashes like the Q-Flash and the Sunpak 120J. I have had a mini-softbox like this for a number of years; great for macro subjects,and nice at up to 5 or 6 feet, but beyond that, the softbox is simply too small to make it function the way people think of a softbox.

A softbox puts out soft light only if the light source is large in relation to the subject,and with a small box, that means the box must be CLOSE to the subject to get soft light. At 20 feet, the light from this softbox will be lower in output, but will be virtually every bit as hard-edged as direct flash. This is an immutable law of the behavior of light; Big Mike keeps pointing this principle out in every thread about flash diffusers, but largely to no avail.

My favorite softbox is 36x48 inches or 1,728 square inches. the Lumiquest if it is the 5x7 model is 35 square inches, or roughly 49.4 times SMALLER. The area of a SB 600 flash tube is apprx. 3.5 square inches. if you make the area the light is diffused about 1,000 to 1,750 times larger than a standard studo flash tube, or a speedlight flash panel, the light will be relatively soft out to about 15-20 feet. With a tiny 5x7 softbox, well...

The advertised biker on the motorcycle....he's about 6 feet from the camera.


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## Markw (Oct 28, 2009)

Thats exactly what I would be using the softbox for.  It would be mainly used with my Nikkor 50mm 1.8 for people shots inside.  Anything over that range, I will use bounced flash from the SB-600, and/or get the Gfong and/or Stofen diffuser.

Thanks
Mark


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## musicaleCA (Oct 28, 2009)

If you're over that range, the Stofen and Gary Fong would hinder, not help you.


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