# Please help me respond to a client request...



## jwbryson1 (Dec 5, 2012)

I took a photograph that a client wants to purchase to make into a 16x20 canvas print.  I cropped it to 5x7 in LR4 and then per their request I revised the original file to an 8x10 crop to see if it would work as a 16x20 canvas.  Both photos are below--I know it's a different photo, but it's the exact same position so assume they are the same.  You can see chopped fingers at the bottom and in the 8x10, Santa's right arm is much closer to the edge.

Question -- How will the 8x10 crop work out as a 16x20 canvas print?   Will this work?  Should I recommend against this?  Thanks for looking!

Original 5x7 crop:

http://

 Example 5 by jwbryson1, on Flickr


Revised 8x10 crop:

http://

 J4 8x10 by jwbryson1, on Flickr


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## Derrel (Dec 5, 2012)

So...what do the ORIGINAL frames look like??? And, what is the question?

I do not think the buyers care about chopped fingers, or anything...they see their dear little daughter/granddaughter with Santa, man!!! She's four years old, in a red dress with a hair bow. Gammy and Gampa are doing backflips...


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## gsgary (Dec 5, 2012)

This is one of the reasons when you shoot events you shoot wider to accomodate problems like this


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## jwbryson1 (Dec 5, 2012)

gsgary said:


> This is one of the reasons when you shoot events you shoot wider to accomodate problems like this




Yes, and I'm hard at work on a "lessons I learned on my first paid gig" thread next.


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## tirediron (Dec 5, 2012)

I would use the first one just because of the young girl's expression.


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## jwbryson1 (Dec 5, 2012)

Derrel said:


> So...what do the ORIGINAL frames look like??? And, what is the question?
> 
> I do not think the buyers care about chopped fingers, or anything...they see their dear little daughter/granddaughter with Santa, man!!! She's four years old, in a red dress with a hair bow. Gammy and Gampa are doing backflips...



This is close to the original frame.  The bottom edge (kid's fingers) and right edge (Santa's left hand) are original and so is the top edge.  The crop came from the left side of the image where Santa's right hand is.

The question is if they make this into a 16x20 canvas print, will too much of the image be further cropped?   I have never made a canvas print, so I'm looking for some information on how the print will affect the image.


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## jwbryson1 (Dec 5, 2012)

tirediron said:


> I would use the first one just because of the young girl's expression.




Ummmmm....that's not the question.  They ordered a copy of second image and want to know if they can make it into a 16x20 canvas print.


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## Derrel (Dec 5, 2012)

I can see a nice 16x20 crop on the second frame by cropping in right above your copyright....losing the ball on Santa's cap in the process, but getting much BIGGER faces...this could be cropped any number of ways....crop into the top of Santa's hat...whatever...the entire photo boils down to the little girl and Santa listening to her...that's "it".

Say it with conviction to your client: "I cropped this picture to maximize the impact of the moment. Isn't she just simply ADORABLE, talking to SANTA like that!!!! Oh, so precious!!!!!"


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## supraman215 (Dec 5, 2012)

Maybe add some vignette if you're really concerned? But I agree with Derrel on this one. Keep the client happy, they won't care about (notice?) the cut off fingers. They like the print and they want a 16x20 canvas. Ship it!


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## jwbryson1 (Dec 5, 2012)

supraman215 said:


> Maybe add some vignette if you're really concerned? But I agree with Derrel on this one. Keep the client happy, they won't care about (notice?) the cut off fingers. They like the print and they want a 16x20 canvas. Ship it!




I'm just providing the electronic file to them--they will have to upload and get it printed.  I'm not doing prints of any sort.


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## ManualMode (Dec 5, 2012)

If you're using Lightroom, there is an option to preview all sorts of crops in there. You could also upload the image to something like posterjack.ca to get a preview of the crop online.
But seriously.. get your money back: offer printing services at a markup that covers your time and efforts. 

I price myself pretty damn cheap and the last time I sold prints I sold $20 worth of prints for $129..


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## Designer (Dec 5, 2012)

#2 looks fine to me.  I hope you were not planning to give them a watermarked version.


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## Big Mike (Dec 5, 2012)

I agree with Derrel's first post....they most likely won't notice or care about fingers at the edges etc.  

One thing to consider though, is that if they are going for a gallery wrapped canvas, then they will lose even more with the wrap...so you might want to give them a little extra with the crop.


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## Derrel (Dec 5, 2012)

If you are just sending them the file...then the actual FINAL result will be the responsibility of whoever actually hits the PRINT button on whatever machine prints the file out...

and I'm not trying to be smart-alecky...that is the reality...the *final decision* will end up in the hands of some print machine operator, Lord only knows "where"...M-Pix...Kits...Costco...wherever...


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## Brandon Hill (Dec 5, 2012)

Great lighting on this.  very soft, classy.


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## jwbryson1 (Dec 5, 2012)

Designer said:


> #2 looks fine to me.  I hope you were not planning to give them a watermarked version.




.    :er:


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## jwbryson1 (Dec 5, 2012)

ManualMode said:


> If you're using Lightroom, there is an option to preview all sorts of crops in there. You could also upload the image to something like posterjack.ca to get a preview of the crop online.
> But seriously.. get your money back: offer printing services at a markup that covers your time and efforts.
> 
> I price myself pretty damn cheap and the last time I sold prints I sold $20 worth of prints for $129..



No doubt!  I do not have "the process" down and just did this event for fun and practice.  I am finding out it is WAYYY too much work to not collect for time spent processing, etc.  I'm going to have to think 2x about doing this again next year.  :meh:


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## jwbryson1 (Dec 5, 2012)

Brandon Hill said:


> Great lighting on this.  very soft, classy.




Thanks for the comments.  I appreciate that.


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## DiskoJoe (Dec 5, 2012)

Either could work. I would say if you have to cut into one of the people have it be santa since the girl is the real subject here.

You could add a border as well if you dont want to crop the original down to much. maybe something red and green or something like that.


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## Robin_Usagani (Dec 5, 2012)

If you wrap the side it wont look very good.   Not that it is a bad photo but why would you put this on a canvas?


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## 12sndsgood (Dec 5, 2012)

do a museum wrap. they can put a black or white band on the wrap portion so that you dont lose a big chunk of your photo that way.  if there doing a 16x20 just adjust your crop to match


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## jwbryson1 (Dec 5, 2012)

Robin_Usagani said:


> If you wrap the side it wont look very good.   Not that it is a bad photo but why would you put this on a canvas?



I'm not here to question -- that's what they wanted to do.  I'm just selling the photos.

By the way, I'm getting a lot of interest in the photos so yay me!  :thumbup:


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## vfotog (Dec 7, 2012)

jwbryson1 said:


> Question -- How will the 8x10 crop work out as a 16x20 canvas print?   Will this work?  Should I recommend against this?  Thanks for looking!
> 
> Original 5x7 crop:
> 
> ...





I must be missing something cos I'm surprised that no one has pointed out that an 8X10 is the exact same ratio as the 16X20.  If you're happy with one, you should be equally happy with the other.


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## supraman215 (Dec 7, 2012)

vfotog said:


> I must be missing something cos I'm surprised that no one has pointed out that an 8X10 is the exact same ratio as the 16X20.  If you're happy with one, you should be equally happy with the other.




I thought the OP mentioned that?


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## paigew (Dec 7, 2012)

I would go with the first crop. B/c as mentioned it will be even tighter when wrapped on canvas. Can you possibly add canvas in p.s. ?


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## Pallycow (Dec 7, 2012)

working at a print lab, I would say from this end, just give them an appropriately proportioned HQ file.  Don't resize it, re-res it, anything other than crop to the ratio....in fact...since you're doing canvas....just give them the original file...(after your edits) with no resizing or anything.  

I changed my mind mid sentence because customers do too.  I see it all the time, they come in wanting a 11x14 (already cropped if I'm lucky) and see a 15x21 hanging on our wall and say "I want that"  then I have to take their file and expand canvas and work PP magic to make it work.   I much rather want to work with an original file, un cropped or resized.

As mentioned, you have to consider the wrap of the canvas....well the customer does.  But that is the labs job, not yours to worry about it.  Unless you want to go that extra mile and consult with them....personally I like to prep my stuff for exactly what customers want....however I give them original format files as well.  I don't have that many clients so I can spend that kind of time on them.  Those that do this stuff full time will attest you can't give quite that much attention to each photo.

and the others are right, customers don't care about fingers/toes/etc....for the 95% majority.  Don't get caught up treating customers like they are members of TPF.  ;-)


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