# trying to go professional is harder then i thought...



## azillian

Not only do i need to take incredible photos, i need to be aware of all the legalities to avoid getting sued, i need to make sure i get paid, and try my hardest not to lose my photos to the internet. I have some questions, but first i'll tell you about myself...

I'm 23, born and raised in Hollywood, i worked at my fathers Mercedes Benz repair and auto body shop down the street from my house for the majority of my life until photography became more then just a hobby. In 2012 i decided to get a part time internship at a production company that a friend of mine worked at. While i was there i got to be behind SLR's and learn a lot about the industry, as well as get experience on music video set's and so on. I got to save up and purchase some pretty cool gear while working at my fathers part time and i've been shooting since on my own since. 

In the last year since i've had my first SLR, the Mark iii (i'm a go big or go home kind of guy), I've managed to tour Europe twice, work a job at an online boutique shooting models and editing photos, shot two music videos of my own, and i've shot quite a lot of stills, some of women, some of friends, and obviously some of the 13 countries i visited. It's safe to say that my year has been busy.... but i've got some issues.

I had to quit my job at LeJolie.com (the boutique i was working for) to go on my last trip to Europe, so I'm currently unemployed in the photography industry, and back to working part time at my fathers to survive (i'm so blessed to have that to fall back on), and i'm not complaining because i still have time to figure things out and make some money with my photography.

My website is currently just a tumblr blog, and this is where i upload a lot of my work, but i've only recently started doing this. 

Am i taking the right approach? 

Should I be using watermarks on the photos for my blog?

Can people technically just steal my photos right now?

I'm not very concerned about people stealing them (or should i be?), but if they do does it harm my chances of making money with these photos in the future?

I have pictures of 13 different countries, all hi res and beautiful, how the hell do i get these things seen more and create a bigger following??

What social medias are the most important?

What is the most important thing a profession does to separate them from an amateur?

Does anyone want to manage me as a photographer?? lol


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## The_Traveler

You are going to get a fair amount of advice here - some of it may be rather rude - so let me sum it up here.

Art photographers sell their pictures.
Commercial photographers sell their skills.

You don't know enough about an extremely competitive business with a shrinking market.


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## Ilovemycam

OP, either you can or you can't when it comes to making $ with your cam. I would tell you to give it your best shot and if you can make a living from your work great. If not, do photos as a love and not as a job. Sounds like you have had some success with your work. So build on it. You can always get a job and do photos as a part time job and see which direction to go in. 

The sad truth with photography nowadays is this...everyone with a cell phone and a $50 Walmart ink jet printer is a photog. I've been refused tons of times by people not wanting free photos, free large size prints and free un-watermarked images because they tell me they don't want or need any more photos. And my photography is in 31 museums and rare book libraries around the world. So, even high grade, high powered photos get refused. I've even offered to make books of people for free and get refused. 

With museums, I may get refused 94% of the time. even with offers of $8,000 to $10,000 of prints and hand printed artist's books...all offered for free. And my photography is excellent museum quality work. But that is the world of the photographer in 2013. In the 1970's before things got polluted with photos it was no problem getting accepted to museums. Nowadays it is a job just trying to uncover the hiding curator of photography that does not want any more solicitations. 

So if you can make $ for your work...good for you! For 44 years I've always done it for love of freezing time and not for love of $. To do it as a job would ruin it for me. I will shoot something for free if I like it, but I wont shoot something for $ if I don't like it. Some days I am up at 6.30 working on my photos to ship to a museum or on a my latest book and still working on it at 1.30AM. Who the hell would want to do that for $...but I wil do it for free if I love doing something.

Good luck!


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## Overread

Thoughts:

1) If its on the net it can be stolen - you can right click protect, use flash/java and all other kinds of little tricks, but anyone who wants to steal can do so very easily and with minimal effort; the protections only serve to dissuade the casual user (who is most likely to use it as a background on their computer more than anything else). 

2) Any watermark that doesn't smother the whole photo and obscure all the detail and display is easily removed with editing (and heck some people who steal won't even care if its on there or not). As a result the watermark is NOT a protective measure. What it is is advertising. If your image spreads around the net and your watermark is clear and not obtrusive then its spreading your name around.

3) Tumblr has blogging by friends - so people blog what they see on your blog and what their friends blog so it can very quickly end up that people are not looking at your stuff but just your stuff in the context of what their watches like on there. As a result your watermark is key to advertising and spreading your name there (as explained in point 2). 

4) If you want to be "managed as a photographer" you want to hit hte local job listings and find yourself a job as an intern/assistant/second shooter with an established pro/company. 

5) If you want a website to generate some income there are websites that are setup which will provide you with a gallery, store page and payment processing features as well as printing and shipping. They'll do all the legwork; but you've in turn got to do lots in advertising yourself if you want to have any sales (simply putting up a website is NOT enough in today's market). I'd drop the name of the popular one but the name of it utterly escapes me at present


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## runnah

In my profession which isn't photography, 90% of the time isn't spent on my craft. Time is spent on marketing, invoicing, taxes, maintenance etc...

I can't speak to photography but I imagine its the same.


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## imagemaker46

It's such a competitive business to stay in, and harder to make a full time living at. The market is saturated with the camera owners that feel they are good enough to make a go of it, and as you found out, it's not easy.  You sound like you've had some great opportunities, and unfortunately they don't always lead anywhere.  

I'd keep working for your Dad and shooting as much as you can on the side, who knows maybe a door will open for you, but don't quit the day job.


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## sm4him

"Going Pro" is actually pretty easy: Get good gear, a business license and insurance; make yourself a FB page or advertise on Craigslist and, voilà! You're a Pro.

Being profitable, THAT's the tricky part. 

Many of your questions relate to the marketing aspect of business. Sounds like it's time for you to start doing some research on running a small business. The Small Business Administration is a good place to start.


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## CCericola

People still make music videos???

Anyway. I've noticed the key to actually making money is to specialize. Decide what you want to photograph and go whole hog. Doing a little bit of this and a little bit of that makes you a Jack of all trades but a master of none. People that are paying mucho dinero for a photo of Paris don't want to buy it from the same guy that shoots boring catalogs. Decide what you want, go all in and build a reputation.


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## Luke345678

I'm no pro but if you don't think you're quite ready then don't rush into it.

You don't want to stress yourself out too much while trying to become a professional. It might make you dislike photography even.


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## 12sndsgood

since I opened my doors around 14 months ago I find I now spend 80% of my time learning business, marketing, social media, advertising. being a good photographer is only a small part of running a business, I'd say it's time to start learning the aspect of owning a company that seem to mater most.


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## runnah

12sndsgood said:


> since I opened my doors around 14 months ago I find I now spend 80% of my time learning business, marketing, social media, advertising. being a good photographer is only a small part of running a business, I'd say it's time to start learning the aspect of owning a company that seem to mater most.



This.

Ever wonder why companies have people dedicated to things like marketing, accounting and contracts? Because that **** is hard and takes a lot of time.


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## Designer

azillian said:


> Am i taking the right approach?


Apparently not.



azillian said:


> Should I be using watermarks on the photos for my blog?


Only if it is a very nice watermark.  IMO, most watermarks are not, and therefore detract from the image. 



azillian said:


> Can people technically just steal my photos right now?


Yes, if they're on the internet.



azillian said:


> What is the most important thing a profession does to separate them from an amateur?


I would say a business-like attitude.


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## gsgary

If i was you i would learn everything i could about your dads business ready to take over the reins when he retires and just enjoy photography as a hobby


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## KmH

As far as a business-like attitude, to your credit you use appropriate punctuation and spelling.

But note that so far, just yours and 2 other post in the thread don't have all the appropriate capital letters. (I, instead of i. Mark III, instead of Mark iii)

A key to starting and maintaining a successful self-employed business is having a written business and marketing plan.


> If you fail to plan, plan to fail.


Starting & Managing a Business | SBA.gov
Free Small Business Advice | How-to Resources | Tools | Templates | SCORE

As far as image theft, it is rampant on the Internet.

So, another part of your business plan research would include investigating and formalizing what you can do to provide as much copyright protection as possible:
Five Things You Can Do to Protect Your Online Images | Photo Attorney
Registering Your Copyrights Using the eCO System | NatureScapes.Net - The Resource for Nature Photographers
https://nppa.org/page/5617
Embedded Metadata Initiative
Help! I've Been Infringed! | Photo Attorney
U.S. Copyright Office - Copyright Law of the United States

Landscape and cityscape images sell best locally to the scene that is the image.
Something like 85% of all the photographs that sell have people in them, and most of those are bought by the people in the photos.

Many of the well known landscape and cityscape photographers make their living by selling landscape and cityscape photography seminars, instead of by selling prints.


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## pgriz

Any business is based on certain principles:
1)  Find a need with enough demand (ie, clients willing to pay money)
2)  Specialize to reduce the number of potential competitors.
3)  Price your product/service to cover your production costs + overhead costs + risk margin + growth capital + profit margin.
4)  Remember that overhead costs include:  costs of operating a company, investment in equipment, training, and marketing, your salary, cost of borrowed money, and all the services you need to buy if you're not doing it all yourself.
5)  Management of key resources (contacts, time, money, your health).
6)  Minimization of risk (legal, physical, contractual).

Any business is a tool to make money.  The trick is, you get to build the tool.  The basic blueprints for doing that can be found in the list that Keith listed.  Just as in photography, it's harder than it looks.


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## azillian

CCericola said:


> People still make music videos???



Yes.... they do. :???:

The video linked bellow is actually one that paid for most of my gear. My old boss Edward Martinez had a $65K budget, and i was his assistant at the time. I ended up getting the picture car in the opening scene (1952 Bentley w/ suicide doors), for free from my friends father, and i put down $2.5K for the budget and i kept it as well as the salary i was already being paid, lol yea, I can be sneaky.


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## azillian

Overread said:


> 5) If you want a website to generate some income there are websites that are setup which will provide you with a gallery, store page and payment processing features as well as printing and shipping. They'll do all the legwork; but you've in turn got to do lots in advertising yourself if you want to have any sales (simply putting up a website is NOT enough in today's market). I'd drop the name of the popular one but the name of it utterly escapes me at present



Could you possibly remember this website, or dig it up for me? Thank you in advance!


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## azillian

gsgary said:


> If i was you i would learn everything i could about your dads business ready to take over the reins when he retires and just enjoy photography as a hobby



I have two older brothers that are doing a really good job of running it already. My dad actually just retired so he's not even there anymore. I don't really plan on taking the reins there, there is no pressure to even do so, and as passionate as i am about cars, and as profitable as it is, i couldn't fix other peoples for a living for the rest of my life.

That is why i'm turning to Photography. I am passionate about it, i get to be around other things i'm passionate about on a daily basis (cars, fashion, people, music), and it's possible to make a living doing it.


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## azillian

KmH said:


> A key to starting and maintaining a successful self-employed business is having a written business and marketing plan.
> 
> 
> 
> If you fail to plan, plan to fail.
Click to expand...


I agree, and i have a general plan. I think deep down i know that photography isn't what's going to put food on the table for the rest of my life. I have a background in fashion. My ex gf was a designer and I did a lot with her in that industry and learned a ton, it's something I enjoy doing, creating clothes and designs for people to wear. 

I eventually plan on starting my own brand (another saturated marked, i'm aware), and use my skills in photography and video making to make excellent content for the brand. After all, video and picture content is a very valuable asset to a business, especially fashion related brands, and i've worked with enough of them to know this.

Starting a brand costs money.... just like starting any kind of business. It's money i don't have right now, but i'm not worried because I know it will come, but before it comes my main focus is creating a FOLLOWING for my photography more then anything. I want to create a buzz around my stuff, and become social media famous in other words. 

When my brand comes around my following is what is going to help my product be seen. I have contacts that will get my products on celebrities and what not, but even that doesn't generate a direct profit. But taking that picture of a celebrity and posting it somewhere where people can have a direct link to the product underneath the photo, THAT will generate sales.

So i guess my question is this: What is the best way to be seen and followed as a photographer??



AND BTW, can not thank you guys enough for the welcoming reply's and valuable information! This place is awesome! :hail:


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## cgipson1

azillian said:


> So i guess my question is this: What is the best way to be seen and followed as a photographer??



If all the Aspiring Pro's here knew the answer to that question.. they would be doing it. All 600,000,000 of them!

The average full time Professional Photographer is lucky to make about 32,000 a year (before taxes)... and that doesn't sound like it fits the lifestyle you are used to... are you sure you want to even try?

Being a professional Photographer (or Professional Anything) is about the *SKILLS* you have (that you don't learn in a year or two), *Business savvy* (again... not a year or two.. and a business degree really helps!)... and *HARD WORK *(which is the opposite of why most people want to be a pro photographer in the first place... most think it is an easy, attractive, well paying job... but it isn't unless you are REALLY REALLY GOOD, or very lucky!)

Just buying a camera ( entry level or High End) does not qualify one to be a professional photographer, although no one will stop you from trying... lol!


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## cgipson1

azillian said:


> Yes.... they do. :???:
> 
> The video linked bellow is actually one that paid for most of my gear. My old boss Edward Martinez had a $65K budget, and i was his assistant at the time. I ended up getting the picture car in the opening scene (1952 Bentley w/ suicide doors), for free from my friends father, and *i put down $2.5K for the budget and i kept it as well as the salary i was already being paid, lol yea, I can be sneaky. *




Sneaky? I would call that unethical, personally... but hey, call it what you want...


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## amolitor

It sounds like you're already plugged in to the fashion world, so I'd start there.

Demonstrate a consistent ability to deliver on time and with quality. Demonstrate a clear artistic vision. Unlike people selling portraits or wedding packages, you'll be dealing with people that know what an artistic vision is, so you damn well better have one or more handy. You'll probably also want to demonstrate an ability to duplicate other styles, as needed. Sometimes a client wants you, sometimes they want a knockoff of someone else, maybe with a little you mixed in.

You can probably figure out your own artistic vision yourself.

Copying others is about a) being able to read the lighting in a photograph quickly and easily and b) being able to guess at the post-processing.

Reading lighting is about observation. Look at the eyes, much of the light will be reflected there. Look at the backgrounds, the hair, look everywhere in the frame. Find all the lights and where they were. Estimate from the shadows how diffuse each light was. Practice, practice, practice (looking at pictures). I think there are many "strobist" web sites that have pictures together with the lighting setups. Look at the picture, guess at the lights, then look at the lighting setup. Keep at it, picture after picture. It's pretty easy to get pretty close, once you get the hang of it.

Guessing at post processing means: being able to read color balance and tonal placement, for the most part. If you can see how color and contrast are managed in post, you can get most of the way there toward duplicating a "look". Again, this is just practice. Go fool with a good photo editor. Adjust color balance, saturation, contrast. Use the curves tool. Desaturate specific color channels, not the whole thing. Learn how pictures behave under abuse.

All of this stuff will flow into you own artistic vision, and will help you clarify and define your ideas.

Oh yeah, you'll want a camera and you'll need to spend a couple hours figuring out how cameras work. They're pretty simple, though. You'll only get into trouble if you get the idea that this stuff is hard, and then, lo, it will become hard. Find a resource that makes it seem easy, and ignore the ones that complexify it for you.


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## runnah

This kid is gonna go far.


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## amolitor

He's already buyin' low and sellin' high.


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## cgipson1

amolitor said:


> It sounds like you're already plugged in to the fashion world, so I'd start there..



Having an ex-girlfriends who was a designer, makes you "plugged into the fashion world"? Then I should be a PRO Football Player.. since Bart Starr was married to my 2nd cousin! Wow.. the possibilities!


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## runnah

cgipson1 said:


> amolitor said:
> 
> 
> 
> It sounds like you're already plugged in to the fashion world, so I'd start there..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Having an ex-girlfriends who was a designer, makes you "plugged into the fashion world"?
Click to expand...


My neighbor's brother once saw Ralph Laruen at a rest stop in Boise Idaho.


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## amolitor

I was actually referring to the next paragraph, where the OP stated that he'd worked with several fashion related brands, Charlie. Did you bother to read the entire post? Why no, of course you did not.


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## Overread

azillian said:


> Overread said:
> 
> 
> 
> 5) If you want a website to generate some income there are websites that are setup which will provide you with a gallery, store page and payment processing features as well as printing and shipping. They'll do all the legwork; but you've in turn got to do lots in advertising yourself if you want to have any sales (simply putting up a website is NOT enough in today's market). I'd drop the name of the popular one but the name of it utterly escapes me at present
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could you possibly remember this website, or dig it up for me? Thank you in advance!
Click to expand...


Smugmug! 

That's the name; though there are others out there doing a similar service. It's good for letting you put together a site and can also work for professional work if you need it to as they have private viewings and such. These services will cost you to use, but the cost is very low. 

You can of course, build your own website to take orders and if you were doing very well you might find that its beneficial to build and maintain your own. However if its just odd sales and more of a portfolio then sites like Smugmug take a lot of the cost and work out of building professional and working website. 

It really depends how far you want to go - if you really want to crack at the big business side consider these services, but also consider how they might limit you or cut into your potential sales; whilst also looking at website building (do you need to hire a designer) and also having and maintaining your own shop front and printing (that doesn't mean you have to print yourself, but means ensuring that you've a good trusting print house to output your product.


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## cgipson1

amolitor said:


> I was actually referring to the next paragraph, where the OP stated that he'd worked with several fashion related brands, Charlie. Did you bother to read the entire post? Why no, of course you did not.



23.. and 

" 





azillian said:


> *i worked at my fathers Mercedes  Benz repair and auto body shop down the street from my house for the  majority of my life *until photography became more then just a hobby. In  2012 i decided to get a part time internship at a production company  that a friend of mine worked at. *While i was there i got to be behind  SLR's* and learn a lot about the industry, as well as *get experience on  music video set's* and so on. I got to save up and purchase some pretty  cool gear while working at my fathers part time and i've been shooting  since on my own since.
> 
> In the last year since i've had my first SLR, the Mark iii (i'm a go big  or go home kind of guy), I've *managed to tour Europe twice*, *work a job  at an online boutique shooting models and editing photos*, *shot two music  videos* of my own, and i've *shot quite a lot of stills, some of women,  some of friends*, and *obviously some of the 13 countries i visited. *It's  safe to say that my year has been busy.... but i've got some issues.
> 
> I had to quit my job at LeJolie.com (the boutique i was working for) to*  go on my last trip to Europe*, so I'm currently unemployed in the  photography industry, and back to *working part time at my fathers to  survive* (i'm so blessed to have that to fall back on), and i'm not  complaining because i still have time to figure things out and make some  money with my photography.
> l



Sounds like he has been very busy doing everything but Fashion.... and yes, I read the entire post... and SURE didn't see what you saw apparently.... 

Did you mean this?  "After all, video and picture content is a very valuable asset to a  business, *especially fashion related brands, and i've worked with enough  of them to know this*." Again.. *23*.. and spend his time touring Europe and working for his dad.. how did he find time to have *"worked with enough  of them to know this"* 

Not putting the OP down... but this really sounds odd.....


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## Designer

azillian said:


> The video linked bellow is actually one that paid for most of my gear. My old boss Edward Martinez had a $65K budget, and i was his assistant at the time. I ended up getting the picture car in the opening scene (1952 Bentley w/ suicide doors), for free from my friends father, and i put down $2.5K for the budget and i kept it as well as the salary i was already being paid, lol yea, I can be sneaky.



Mr. Martinez may or may not care, but you'd better hope that he doesn't sue you.  Now that you have admitted to fraud, and it's on the internet, he could see this quote at any time.


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## tirediron

cgipson1 said:


> azillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.... they do. :???:
> 
> The video linked bellow is actually one that paid for most of my gear. My old boss Edward Martinez had a $65K budget, and i was his assistant at the time. I ended up getting the picture car in the opening scene (1952 Bentley w/ suicide doors), for free from my friends father, and *i put down $2.5K for the budget and i kept it as well as the salary i was already being paid, lol yea, I can be sneaky. *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sneaky? I would call that unethical, personally... but hey, call it what you want...
Click to expand...


I'm pretty sure that's actually called "fraud" which in most parts of the world is a criminal charge!


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## Gavjenks

I suggest you play to your strengths and pursue a career in organized crime.


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## amolitor

I'm baffled by the accusation of fraud. It depends very very much on details that haven't been mentioned.


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## tirediron

amolitor said:


> I'm baffled by the accusation of fraud. It depends very very much on details that haven't been mentioned.



Granted, but to summarize those we do know, essentially:  "I got free use of a prop for which I had estimated and billed at 2.5K", I'm still going with "fraud"!


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## runnah

tirediron said:


> amolitor said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm baffled by the accusation of fraud. It depends very very much on details that haven't been mentioned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Granted, but to summarize those we do know, essentially:  "I got free use of a prop for which I had estimated and billed at 2.5K", I'm still going with "fraud"!
Click to expand...


You say fraud and I say markup.


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## molested_cow

I am not a pro, but I am a designer who also finds it very challenging to do it alone.

First of all, I don't know if there's anyone who actually buys photograph, like pretty landscapes and what not, as art. I've sold two photos to a colleague who happened to like them. I wasn't trying, it was coincidental. When you come to forums like this, you will find a ton of beautiful photos taken by people who also spend a lot of time honing their skills, but they aren't even doing it for a profit. There are many reasons to why beautiful photos aren't as marketable as the way we would like them to, of which I want to highlight one- They do not really serve a value in order to sustain a demand. Even post cards are so yesterday... people just snap a shot with their iphone and tag it on FB.

Like previously mentioned in this thread, you should not be focusing on selling your work, but your skills. Photography isn't a skill that has a high entry point like say.... engineering or medicine. You get some gears, put enough time and passion and you will get somewhere. So among all of these very talented photographers, why pick you? In another words, what's your niche? I don't think you should be thinking this as a "competition". If you do, you will only end up in a price-cut war. It's about the unique value you can offer that others can't. That's not competition, because you own the market. So that's what I think  you need to focus on, or for any profession for that matter. Good luck!


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## Gavjenks

amolitor said:


> I'm baffled by the accusation of fraud. It depends very very much on details that haven't been mentioned.



Why does he need to be "sneaky" if it's a legitimate transaction?
Also, to some extent, it might not matter.  Even if you could have put it down as "$2,500 going to me for this prop" and even if the guy would've been fine with it, it could still likely be fraud anyway if you lie instead. Fraud is just using lies and trickery to get something from a person. It doesn't require that there be no other possible way to have gotten it honestly.


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## amolitor

Fraud has an actual definition, it turns out.


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## Designer

amolitor said:


> Fraud has an actual definition, it turns out.



For those who don't own a dictionary:

fraud |frôd|noun

Wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain:_ he was convicted of fraud_ |_ prosecutions for social security frauds_. a person or thing intended to deceive others, typically by unjustifiably claiming or being credited with accomplishments or qualities:_ mediums exposed as tricksters and frauds_.

We're not talking about some crime for which the perpetrator might be prosecuted, but perhaps he could be sued in civil court.  

It's fraud.


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## amolitor

We have no idea there was *deceit*. Perhaps he felt "sneaky" for not telling the rest of the crew about his finder's fee, while being 100% open with the boss.

There almost certainly was no *injury* here, if the $2500 is a reasonable rental fee for the car.

Throwing around accusations of fraud isn't really appropriate in the absence of.. anything.


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## Overread

Ok guys in absence of any actual evidence barring a comment made in passing lets leave the home sleuthing out and stick to what we know - photography


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## limr

KmH said:


> As far as a business-like attitude, to your credit you use appropriate punctuation and spelling.
> 
> But note that so far, just your's and 2 other post in the thread don't have all the appropriate capital letters. (I, instead of i. Mark III, instead of Mark iii)



OP, don't underestimate the value of the above advice. Sloppiness or inconsistency in your business writings (ads, letters, promos...) will get noticed. You can have the slickest outfit around but what people will notice and remember is the toilet paper stuck to your shoe. And there is enough sloppiness in writing skills these days that not making mistakes will get you noticed in a good way.



azillian said:


> Can people technically just steal my photos right now?
> 
> I'm not very concerned about people stealing them (or should i be?), but if they do does it harm my chances of making money with these photos in the future?



You automatically own the copyright of any creative work you do and display. If someone uses your image without accreditation, yes they are stealing your work. You have the right to sue them to stop using the work, but you can't sue for monetary damages unless you register the work with the US Copyright Office. If this is something that you are trying to make money from, I would suggest looking into that. It's cheap (unlike getting a patent! Be glad you didn't invent anything  ) and it will give you more protection and control over how your work is used. 

I suppose this is more relevant if you are looking to sell your pictures. As suggested several times, if you are selling your services as a photographer, this may be less of an issue but it still might be worth looking into.

I am not a pro photographer, nor do I have any desire to be one, so on your other questions, I got nothing. Good luck, though!


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## azillian

Lol definitely not fraud. I'm sneaky because I'm connected and I get Bentleys for free. Ed knows how I get down... You trolls need to go back into your little troll houses and stop trying to rain on peoples parades, not my fault you were deprived of friends and love while growing up. Resorting to being an E-Bully, aka loser, was really a weak career choice on your end, you may want to reevaluate. :mrgreen:

And thank you to anyone who has replied with relevant information, I appreciate your input and help!


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## 12sndsgood

azillian said:


> Lol definitely not fraud. I'm sneaky because I'm connected and I get Bentleys for free. Ed knows how I get down... You trolls need to go back into your little troll houses and stop trying to rain on peoples parades, not my fault you were deprived of friends and love while growing up. Resorting to being an E-Bully, aka loser, was really a weak career choice on your end, you may want to reevaluate. :mrgreen:
> 
> And thank you to anyone who has replied with relevant information, I appreciate your input and help!




The way it was worded (being sneaky) made it appear that's what you had done. now calling people trolls because they were replying to how you responded makes you look even worse.  People standing up for what's right (not commiting fraud) is not being a loser or E-bully.


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## amolitor

To be fair, the OP was accused of a crime first, and only called people trolls in response to that. Ideally we'd all just smile benignly when other people accused us of _*being a criminal*_ but we're not all saints.


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## cgipson1

amolitor said:


> To be fair, the OP was accused of a crime first, and only called people trolls in response to that. Ideally we'd all just smile benignly when other people accused us of _*being a criminal*_ but we're not all saints.



I just said it sounded unethical, and I stand by that. But the attitude says a lot...


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## vintagesnaps

If you're posting your photos online it would be beneficial to read the Terms & Conditions of websites you are currently using or intend to use. The Terms might state that when you sign up to use the site, you're automatically agreeing to their Terms. 

Terms seem to often include something to the effect that you own your photos - but..... the rest of what's stated may include allowing the site unlimited, uncompensated usage, and might include usage by third parties. You'd need to read what you're allowing because not only does stealing photos online seem to be rampant but you might be allowing the site to use your photos without your permission or knowledge or any compensation. 

If reblogging or reposting is allowed and you've agreed to that, it doesn't seem like your photos would still be under your control. I know a couple of photographers in my area who post select photos only online to display and then provide links to their own websites. Using a site where you can post and sell photos might be an option (as Overread mentioned as #5 in his post).

To do professional work in photography I'd think too about what you post on message boards; you seemed to be doing a little name dropping of sorts and that might be more than what a client would want to have posted online about work you've done for them. For example a client may want the photos to go public on a specific time frame so you wouldn't want to be sharing that info. or the photos online prior to an intended release date. 

ASMP has information that could be helpful in going into business as a photographer. They also have had info. on their site recently regarding the latest changes to TOS on Facebook that were supposed to go into effect this week.


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## 12sndsgood

There was more discussion on the definition of fraud then there was accusations really.  A choice of words is going to get a choice of responses.  Op says he's well connected with friends and nobody would have questioned it. When he says I got a Bently from the shoot I'm sneaky like that it gives the impression that something shady went on.


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## Buckster

KmH said:


> But note that so far, just your's and 2 other post in the thread don't have all the appropriate capital letters.


There should be no apostrophe in the word "yours".

Go back to school and learn to write correctly if you're going to criticize others for their spelling and grammar mistakes.  "People in glass houses", and all that.


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## pixmedic

Photos of more places in one area is most convenient.


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## KmH

Buckster said:


> KmH said:
> 
> 
> 
> But note that so far, just your's and 2 other post in the thread don't have all the appropriate capital letters.
> 
> 
> 
> There should be no apostrophe in the word "yours".
Click to expand...

Fixed. Thank you for pointing out my mistake.

You may have noticed in some of my other posts, I have edited the post on a later date after I noticed I had made some kind of grammar, spelling, or typographical error.


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## Buckster

KmH said:


> Buckster said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KmH said:
> 
> 
> 
> But note that so far, just your's and 2 other post in the thread don't have all the appropriate capital letters.
> 
> 
> 
> There should be no apostrophe in the word "yours".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fixed. Thank you for pointing out my mistake.
> 
> You may have noticed in some of my other posts, I have edited the post on a later date after I noticed I had made some kind of grammar, spelling, or typographical error
Click to expand...

Like forgetting to put a period at the end of a sentence?


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## Designer

amolitor said:


> To be fair, the OP was accused of a crime first, and only called people trolls in response to that. Ideally we'd all just smile benignly when other people accused us of _*being a criminal*_ but we're not all saints.



In my comment, I was not assuming any *CRIMINAL* intent, only pointing out the fraud.

BTW: I see where you write that his boss knew about the deception, but I missed that part.

To save people the effort of back-clicking to the post in question:

_"The video linked bellow is actually one that paid for most of my gear. My old boss Edward Martinez had a $65K budget, and i was his assistant at the time. I ended up getting the picture car in the opening scene (1952 Bentley w/ suicide doors), for free from my friends father, and i put down $2.5K for the budget and i kept it as well as the salary i was already being paid, lol yea, I can be sneaky."
​_
I still don't see anywhere that he even implied that Mr. Martinez actually knew about the transaction and how much it actually cost the OP. ​​( free )  If fact, the tone of the post was; the budget was so fat that Ed Martinez didn't miss the $2.5K. LOL!


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