# Respecting People's Choices



## runnah

Please keep in mind when offering suggestions about gear to respect the choices that have already been made by the OP. We've had quite a few instances where people will state they want to stick with brand "A" or "B" only to have people start suggesting the opposite brand(s). Please respect people's choices regarding the brand they have chosen. If they directly ask for alternatives feel free to suggest them.

Secondly, please do not comment on how "crappy" someone's camera is, especially for those who are just starting out. If you are caught doing this you will be banned. Nothing is more discouraging than having spent a considerable amount of money only to have a bunch of people say you bought a piece of junk. We should be encouraging people to shoot what they have and enjoy it.


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## jsecordphoto

Now now children


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## IronMaskDuval

runnah, why'd you post this with such a crappy computer? too much noise.


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## Solarflare

Doesnt that depend a bit ?

Yes sometimes there are the annoying MFT fanboys that need to talk about their glorious system in every single thread (not in this forum, but in some other forums).

Or people demand a Nikon DSLR and yet somebody talks about Canon or Pentax, or vice versa.

But sometimes people are really uninformed and want to get things that dont exist, such as a small sensor compact cameras that work well in low light.


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## jaomul

A real bug bear I have is when someone states the have a budget and people suggest equipment double, triple, quadruple the budget.

I got bit of a roasting on another forum for opening a thread saying a 5d3 was not a good alternative to a 7d.  This was because many asked about upgrades from 20/30 and 40ds etc with budgets of approx 1000 dollars. 7d was approx at budget, 5d3,was not. Even a mod got bit annoyed with me


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## runnah

Solarflare said:


> Doesnt that depend a bit ?
> 
> Yes sometimes there are the annoying MFT fanboys that need to talk about their glorious system in every single thread (not in this forum, but in some other forums).
> 
> Or people demand a Nikon DSLR and yet somebody talks about Canon or Pentax, or vice versa.
> 
> But sometimes people are really uninformed and want to get things that dont exist, such as a small sensor compact cameras that work well in low light.



I am speaking to the cases where the OP is saying "I own xxx brand and would like to stick with them." Certainly when people come in with no idea what brand, type or style camera they want, than certainly feel free to suggest anything.


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## runnah

jaomul said:


> A real bug bear I have is when someone states the have a budget and people suggest equipment double, triple, quadruple the budget.



I can only tackle one problem at a time, but that is high on my list of pet peeves.


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## table1349

runnah said:


> jaomul said:
> 
> 
> 
> A real bug bear I have is when someone states the have a budget and people suggest equipment double, triple, quadruple the budget.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can only tackle one problem at a time, but that is high on my list of pet peeves.
Click to expand...

While I agree that can be frustrating at times, it can also helpful at times to educate those who just don't have the knowledge yet.  Such as the invariable "I just got a (Insert your brand of choice camera and lens that is valued at $2000.00) and I want a tripod.  My budget is $25.00 do you think this tripod will work?  You click on the link and it is a tripod that has a weight limit that will support two or possibly even three Tzetse flies.  Which is better, the "Oh yeah that is great" response, or the explaining the issues and liking to an item that meets at least the reasonable minimum.


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## Derrel

*Q:* Who has won the most People’s Choice Awards? —Nicole H., Pittsburgh
*A:* From his first award in 1985 for Favorite Male Performer in a New TV Program to his last award in 1999 for All Time Favorite TV Star, actor and comedian *Bill Cosby* holds the record with 17 wins. Coming in second is*Julia Roberts* with 13 statuettes, although she’ll have to share the spot with *Ellen DeGeneres* if the funny lady wins again this year in the category of Favorite Daytime TV Host.

from:  Who Has Won the Most People s Choice Awards


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## tirediron

gryphonslair99 said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jaomul said:
> 
> 
> 
> A real bug bear I have is when someone states the have a budget and people suggest equipment double, triple, quadruple the budget.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can only tackle one problem at a time, but that is high on my list of pet peeves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> While I agree that can be frustrating at times, it can also helpful at times to educate those who just don't have the knowledge yet.  Such as the invariable "I just got a (Insert your brand of choice camera and lens that is valued at $2000.00) and I want a tripod.  My budget is $25.00 do you think this tripod will work?  You click on the link and it is a tripod that has a weight limit that will support two or possibly even three Tzetse flies.  Which is better, the "Oh yeah that is great" response, or the explaining the issues and liking to an item that meets at least the reasonable minimum.
Click to expand...

Absolutely this! ^^^  A lot of times people don't know what they don't know, and by explaining why the item that they're considering isn't ideal, we are helping to educate them.


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## Overread

Budget wise I think its also important to inform people of what is above their price point. Not to insult but to give them a wider understanding. It can help people understand how the market lines up but in some cases also convinces people that; yeah maybe they should save a little longer so that they can get something really awesome instead of a short-gap purchase that is only a minor upgrade.

In general though the spirit of this ruling is sound; that of trying to discourage brand wars and topics going FAR off course away from what is relevant to the OP of a post (who whilst they don't "own" the thread is the one who asked the question and thus should be the primary focus of the thread in general


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## syaudi

sometimes I really wish more people would ask more about the 5D3 because that's the only camera I know enough about to hold a reasonably lively conversation


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## chuasam

but what if they bought a Sony or Samsung camera?


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## Vtec44

chuasam said:


> but what if they bought a Sony or Samsung camera?



We should make fun of them behind their back.


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## chuasam

Vtec44 said:


> chuasam said:
> 
> 
> 
> but what if they bought a Sony or Samsung camera?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We should make fun of them behind their back.
Click to expand...

Every Sony and Samsung user I know spends all their time looking for lenses that work.


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## Vic Vinegar

That is always something that discouraged me from online forums. The fanboy loyalty is so annoying. I have reasons for liking a Canon and you have reasons for liking another brand. Just be glad we both have a brand that we can use. And I personally don't find any camera crappy... unless it's a phone camera... Oh man my family posts stuff on facebook with it and I can't stand it. But I still act supportive and say good job.

So treat other members like you treat your facebook friends. You wouldn't call your aunt a name would you?
Because chances are that's somebody's real aunt.


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## FITBMX

Vic Vinegar said:


> That is always something that discouraged me from online forums. The fanboy loyalty is so annoying. I have reasons for liking a Canon and you have reasons for liking another brand. Just be glad we both have a brand that we can use. And I personally don't find any camera crappy... unless it's a phone camera... Oh man my family posts stuff on facebook with it and I can't stand it. But I still act supportive and say good job.
> 
> So treat other members like you treat your facebook friends.* You wouldn't call your aunt a name would you?
> Because chances are that's somebody's real aunt.*



Yes I would! But you don't know my family!


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## Vic Vinegar

FITBMX said:


> Vic Vinegar said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is always something that discouraged me from online forums. The fanboy loyalty is so annoying. I have reasons for liking a Canon and you have reasons for liking another brand. Just be glad we both have a brand that we can use. And I personally don't find any camera crappy... unless it's a phone camera... Oh man my family posts stuff on facebook with it and I can't stand it. But I still act supportive and say good job.
> 
> So treat other members like you treat your facebook friends.* You wouldn't call your aunt a name would you?
> Because chances are that's somebody's real aunt.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I would! But you don't know my family!
Click to expand...


lol


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## bribrius

runnah said:


> Please keep in mind when offering suggestions about gear to respect the choices that have already been made by the OP. We've had quite a few instances where people will state they want to stick with brand "A" or "B" only to have people start suggesting the opposite brand(s). Please respect people's choices regarding the brand they have chosen. If they directly ask for alternatives feel free to suggest them.
> 
> Secondly, please do not comment on how "crappy" someone's camera is, especially for those who are just starting out. If you are caught doing this you will be banned. Nothing is more discouraging than having spent a considerable amount of money only to have a bunch of people say you bought a piece of junk. We should be encouraging people to shoot what they have and enjoy it.


i still shoot with a point and shoot sometimes. Deal with it. And i love snap shots. Anyone who doesn't i think has "issues". And i see better stuff on facebook from people shooting with smart phones and handicams than here most of the time . And enough with the photoshop chit not all of us signed up for the monthly plan, and no, we shouldn't all go get light room then. And what is up with the memory card prejudice? Sand disc is not a bad card.  You should use lee, no, use tiffen, no use... and yeah, you need more megapixels. Never mind you never blew a photo up over a 8x10 and only print five of them a year you still should get more megapixels... blah blah blah blah blah.  Just shoot the damn photo already........


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## KenC

bribrius said:


> i still shoot with a point and shoot sometimes. Deal with it. And i love snap shots. Anyone who doesn't i think has "issues". And i see better stuff on facebook from people shooting with smart phones and handicams than here most of the time . And enough with the photoshop chit not all of us signed up for the monthly plan, and no, we shouldn't all go get light room then. And what is up with the memory card prejudice? Sand disc is not a bad card.  You should use lee, no, use tiffen, no use... and yeah, you need more megapixels. Never mind you never blew a photo up over a 8x10 and only print five of them a year you still should get more megapixels... blah blah blah blah blah.  Just shoot the damn photo already........



Hey, Brian.  A lot of us are not like this.  You're letting the rabid minority get to you - at least I hope it's a minority, I didn't actually look back and count...


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## bribrius

KenC said:


> bribrius said:
> 
> 
> 
> i still shoot with a point and shoot sometimes. Deal with it. And i love snap shots. Anyone who doesn't i think has "issues". And i see better stuff on facebook from people shooting with smart phones and handicams than here most of the time . And enough with the photoshop chit not all of us signed up for the monthly plan, and no, we shouldn't all go get light room then. And what is up with the memory card prejudice? Sand disc is not a bad card.  You should use lee, no, use tiffen, no use... and yeah, you need more megapixels. Never mind you never blew a photo up over a 8x10 and only print five of them a year you still should get more megapixels... blah blah blah blah blah.  Just shoot the damn photo already........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, Brian.  A lot of us are not like this.  You're letting the rabid minority get to you - at least I hope it's a minority, I didn't actually look back and count...
Click to expand...

No. Just a few. Guess i had to get that off my chest. LOL.


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## DandL

bribrius said:


> And what is up with the memory card prejudice? *Sand disc *is not a bad card.........



Those cards would be a great choice if you want a lot of "grain" in your images. Personally, I prefer Sandisk.


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## bribrius

DandL said:


> bribrius said:
> 
> 
> 
> And what is up with the memory card prejudice? *Sand disc *is not a bad card.........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those cards would be a great choice if you want a lot of "grain" in your images. Personally, I prefer Sandisk.
Click to expand...

i like my spelling it makes me feel like i am shooting digital film


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## chuasam

Vic Vinegar said:


> And I personally don't find any camera crappy... unless it's a phone camera...


hey now! I quite like my phone camera.
Here's a few photos I took with it on a recent vacation.


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## Vic Vinegar

chuasam said:


> View attachment 101326 View attachment 101327 View attachment 101312 View attachment 101312
> 
> 
> Vic Vinegar said:
> 
> 
> 
> And I personally don't find any camera crappy... unless it's a phone camera...
> 
> 
> 
> hey now! I quite like my phone camera.
> Here's a few photos I took with it on a recent vacation.
Click to expand...


then I'd like to get you behind the wheel of a brand new DSLR if you can take these with a... dare I say, phone camera... You must be amazing with some real, fine, Japanese engineering.


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## chuasam

Vic Vinegar said:


> chuasam said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 101326 View attachment 101327 View attachment 101312 View attachment 101312
> 
> 
> Vic Vinegar said:
> 
> 
> 
> And I personally don't find any camera crappy... unless it's a phone camera...
> 
> 
> 
> hey now! I quite like my phone camera.
> Here's a few photos I took with it on a recent vacation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> then I'd like to get you behind the wheel of a brand new DSLR if you can take these with a... dare I say, phone camera... You must be amazing with some real, fine, Japanese engineering.
Click to expand...

I also have a Nikon D810. 
Unless I'm being paid or I'm doing portfolio stuff or large prints - iPhone all the way


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## kathyt

Did Runnah really start this thread?  Really?


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## desertrattm2r12

The notion out there with a lot of people is that "I have a (you name it) brand camera and it is far and away the best camera in the world because ---- well, because I own one and I am the master of the universe and a lot smarter than you."
This notion gets real old real fast. Cameras are tools. Do you ask a car mechanic which brand of monkey wrench he would use on your car before you hire him?
And then there is the "cool" factor. "Oh, your camera is so glamorous." Reply: "oh, I haven't put film in it for 27 years." Reply back, "oh, don't bother, just pose with it draped down in front of your tuxedo."
If they want a Canon Rebel, tell them to go for it unless you have a Canon model at the same price range you think might be more suitable. Don't try to get them into a Leica M. That person might just beat your butt with his/her Rebel and an eye and a brain.


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## mrca

Brand, model of camera?  I agree with Vic " I have reasons for liking a Canon and you have reasons for liking another brand. Just be glad we both have a brand that we can use."  I don't care what light recorder, ie camera, you use, I am more interested in your IMAGES.  And for anyone telling a newby that their camera is crap, even an entry level camera today   is far and away better than cameras in the 1900's that produced all those incredible iconic images.   A pro agonizes over the quality of their images, an amateur or collector over the quality of their gear.   How many times have you heard carpenters waxing on endlessly about their saws?  No, they just use them since they are only tools.  And rough carpenters and creative furniture makers all use  with  wood working tools and wood but produce markedly different results.  One is basic and utilitarian,  the other is art.   Ansel had it right, the most important part of the camera is the 12 inches behind it.


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## paul'dee'dowling

An Interior Designer for over 30 years , my set squares , scales and equipment  tend tone worn and tired .
This is how it should be , though I may be put down as I could afford new ones .
I just did not need it .
I have a 10 year old Leica M8 and a much derided Sony A290 , so where does that leave me ?
The M8 was a mad inheritance purchase as I craved an analogue style digital , quickly adapted to Contax Mount for a superb new £40 Helios and special gifted Contax mount J3 lens [ no registration problems ] plus a CV 35 f2.5 , so no Leica badge affinity .
The Sony  plus the plastic 35mm ,was the cheapest entry into using my old Minolta AF lenses old favourite 35-80f4 , [ cropped to a fave 24-120 for architecture , plus the bonus of those lovely CCD colours .
I guess I could be criticised from both ends of the spectrum , so I can hardly question any ones choice .  
Ironically , both the M8 and the Sony are largely devoid of  current tech , which is just how I like it .

I also like chasing inexpensive digitals which , like the M8 are far beyond my abilities , just for the fun of it - 
new £230 Pentax K-S1 plus 35mm  'cos I love the clear finder , 
new Fuji X-Pro1 27mm [ @320 ] as my advanced compact and , the latest , 
new Fuji X-T1 18-55 @ £427 which took a years of 'stalking' in a Dept store and as it  dropped from £1300 / £850 until it became a clearance item within my reach - great fun and persistence - I wanted that 18-55 and an SLR style body !
The X-Pro was fantastic street camera during a one off visit to Malaysia , but I could easily have used the M8 .
I confess that the two Fujis seem to be taking over somewhat , but the Sony is excellently worthless , so won't be going anywhere .
The M8 ? Semi retired, so hopefully it will keep going when others have died .
Maybe I will stop seeking out those neglected discontinued cameras - but I doubt it . 
Another aspect is respect for a camera - easy perhaps , for an M8 or -once [£1450] Fuji , but less obvious for that Sony .
However , I would choose that camera within it's ISO limitations due to those lovely colours and try to squeeze the most of it at all times .


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## greybeard

You have this with any group that use tools.  Just talk to any mechanic about his SnapOn tool box he just dropped $15k on or a wood crafter that is in love with his Festool track saw.   I think we've all seen people take great pictures with modest equipment and crappy ones with professional gear.  It is all in how you use the tools.


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## SquarePeg

This discussion is from 2015


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## greybeard

SquarePeg said:


> This discussion is from 2015


And is still valid today, it is timeless.


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## prashant mahto

anyone suggest me best camera for beginners.


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## SquarePeg

prashant mahto said:


> anyone suggest me best camera for beginners.



Advice:  Start your own thread.  Include what you’re looking to photograph, what your budget is and what your requirements are.  Also include your photography background if any.


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## K9Kirk

Excellent thread, old or not because people don't change in a few years time. Word of advice to whomever this applies to, if you don't like someone's pic and you can't bring yourself to simply say, "nice pic", then just move on and be the better person for it. Time and experience will let them know later that their early pics needed a little help and there is no shortage of help for photographers on the web. Simply put, there's no need to rush to be that "douche critic". If someone asks for you to critique them on their pics/camera or equipment, whatever,  that's another thing and they have no room to complain unless you do it without being respectful/in a belittling manner. Remember, there's always someone better than you with better equipment than you and what comes around goes around.


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## Original katomi

Giving someone advice is always going to be an issue. I have found in the past one persons idea of a budget is another’s (mine) wow that much can’t poss afford that... but at the end of the day for me photography is a hobby and therefore has to be fun  . My upgrade policy is, when I can’t do what I want to do with the current ,item, and can’t find a workaround the limitation then it’s time to upgrade. Seen so many peeps who have the latest camera and are still in full auto... but again that is up to them 
I tend to go manually as I grew up with zenith and Pentax k1000 and old habits die hard yes I know my current canon will bracket shots for me but I find that I have done it before remembering the camera will do it for me. Pushing my current canon  to its limits, really would like to go med format but not sure if current style of photography (really big pics latest 2m by .5 m  made up of 20 images) is just a fad.


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## Original katomi

When posting I try and rem my early days and some of the comments made about the quality of my kit which was/is the best I can afford. Most of my kit is used, but this is a hobby and the kit does not earn me a living, or is required for my safety.


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## NE-KID

Here is my view point on this. Not everyone can afford a high end camera like a Nikon, Cannon, Red or some other higher end camera. I think some people do come here ask for advice on what DSLR camera will be best for their budget income so they don't break the bank. I can understand why some people get irritated and up tight when someone ask what is a good DSLR camera for their budget level and someone replies with a Nikon D5, Canon EOS 5D cameras or etc.  

Always good to do homework on how much of a DSLR camera and accessories can I afford in my set budget.


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## snowbear

Sometimes people are trying to be sarcastic or funny, but it isn't always obvious.

And some people are just @$$h0les.


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## K9Kirk

snowbear said:


> Sometimes people are trying to be sarcastic or funny, but it isn't always obvious.
> 
> And some people are just @$$h0les.



I agree, when you're talking to someone face to face you can see their expressions and gestures that accompany their words which help to identify whether they're serious or joking. You don't get that online. I've had to explain myself so much on a popular motorcycle web site it isn't funny. I feel like the king of misunderstood, ha! Of course a lot has to do with HOW you word things and being careful not to write a double intendre. I've trained myself to proof read once or twice to be sure I didn't make any mistakes.


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## John27

Original katomi said:


> When posting I try and rem my early days and some of the comments made about the quality of my kit which was/is the best I can afford. Most of my kit is used, but this is a hobby and the kit does not earn me a living, or is required for my safety.



I think there's a certain feedback loop people are looking for.

They spent a LOT of money in search of something and you're happy having spent a lot less money.  The only conclusion must be that you shouldn't be happy, because you didn't spend as much money as them or didn't buy the things they did.

We all want to be the smartest idiot in the room and when someone walks in with the other brand, alarm bells go off and we say "Well one of these has to be better, and if he's not the idiot then I'm the idiot... so he's the idiot!"


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## Soocom1

On the internet you can find anything to justify your position on anything, from purple bananas to flying teapots are a gift from Zenu. 

The use of the forum for advice is specific because YOU do NOT know everything and neither does anyone else. 
BUT, everyone else may have a tiny piece of the data YOU need to complete a project, or solve a puzzle et-al. 

The Ford v. Chevy type debates get old.  They don't really add substance to an issue and when one person feeling all goody goody and smarterer than the rest of us little people has a tendency to want to play photo god and state that their religion of Nikon or Canon is the only true religion, things get ugly. 

The camera is a black box with a hunking large piece of glass on the front.   
Except perhaps with a Monday morning made Holga, they all do the same thing. 

What people need to do is realize that not everyone sees your camera god the same way. 
Its the FUNCTIONALITY AND THEORY that needs to be employed. Not "..my camera is bigger than your camera.." nonsense.


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## K9Kirk

Soocom1 said:


> On the internet you can find anything to justify your position on anything, from purple bananas to flying teapots are a gift from Zenu.
> 
> The use of the forum for advice is specific because YOU do NOT know everything and neither does anyone else.
> BUT, everyone else may have a tiny piece of the data YOU need to complete a project, or solve a puzzle et-al.
> 
> The Ford v. Chevy type debates get old.  They don't really add substance to an issue and when one person feeling all goody goody and smarterer than the rest of us little people has a tendency to want to play photo god and state that their religion of Nikon or Canon is the only true religion, things get ugly.
> 
> The camera is a black box with a hunking large piece of glass on the front.
> Except perhaps with a Monday morning made Holga, they all do the same thing.
> 
> What people need to do is realize that not everyone sees your camera god the same way.
> Its the FUNCTIONALITY AND THEORY that needs to be employed. Not "..my camera is bigger than your camera.." nonsense.



Oh yeah?! Well, my dads camera is bigger than your dads!  ( does that about clarify it?)


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## snowbear

The use of emojis can help but not always.
Ford or Chevy cameras?  Not sure I'd want either one.  Now, an IKEA camera, on the other hand . . .


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