# Polarizer or Graduated ND Filter?



## Restomage (May 12, 2010)

I'm going to be taking a bunch of landscape shots in the next couple weeks and my budget at the moment can only afford either a polarizer or a graduated nd filter but I can't decide which one would be more appropriate for me at this point. My goal is to pretty much properly expose the sky and foreground and create a good balance of light and I'm leaning towards one of those Graduated neutral density rectangular filters so I can acheive this but I'm just wondering what would be most benefitial to me at this point. Thanks for your help in advance! :thumbup:


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## davebmck (May 12, 2010)

If you can only afford one filter, I would get the polarizer.  It's a must have filter for landscape photography and you will get more use out of it than the graduated ND filter.  BTW, if you have lightroom, there is a graduated filter tool available, and its easy to use.


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## sinjans (May 12, 2010)

I would think that the answer is yes... If you want that dark sky effect get the GND but a CPL is a must for landscape. I went with a high quality cpl and am still in line for the GND. Good luck


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## Restomage (May 12, 2010)

davebmck said:


> If you can only afford one filter, I would get the polarizer.  It's a must have filter for landscape photography and you will get more use out of it than the graduated ND filter.  BTW, if you have lightroom, there is a graduated filter tool available, and its easy to use.



I don't have lightroom, but I have photoshop, is there a tool in there?


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## Aye-non Oh-non Imus (May 12, 2010)

A CPL is much more usefull in the grand schemes of things.  A GND is further down the list.

Software can respoduce the GND to a satisfactory level.  Software cannot reproduce the effects of a CPL.  Advise to get a quality CPL, multi-coated in the very least.


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## davebmck (May 12, 2010)

Restomage said:


> davebmck said:
> 
> 
> > If you can only afford one filter, I would get the polarizer.  It's a must have filter for landscape photography and you will get more use out of it than the graduated ND filter.  BTW, if you have lightroom, there is a graduated filter tool available, and its easy to use.
> ...


If you have the latest version of ACR then I believe the tool is there.


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## Vinny (May 12, 2010)

I would buy the polarizer. It really is a great filter to have when photographing landscapes.


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## skieur (May 12, 2010)

I use both.  If you are shooting toward bright skies then I would certainly prefer the graduated neutral density filter.  It can produce some great sunsets as well with foreground detail.  The polarizer by the way has minimal or no effect on skies when you are shooting toward the bright areas.

The polarizer does a great job with 90 degree angle lighting, glare, reflections etc.  and can bring out side lit detail and apparently produce better colour due to glare reduction.

So, it depends on what you are shooting and your style and approach as to which will be best for you.

skieur


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## Garbz (May 13, 2010)

Restomage said:


> I don't have lightroom, but I have photoshop, is there a tool in there?



Create a new adjustment layer for exposure and reduce the brightness by 1EV. Then apply a gradient to the layer mask of that layer.

If the sky is slightly blown out then this works better if you darken the file in CamerRAW and then increase the brightness afterwards since you then benefit from highlight recovery.


If you have a tripod, take 2 pictures with two different brightnesses, stack them as layers on topof each other and again use a layer mask. You can effectively fake an ND grad filter for non-moving subjects this way, and sometimes even moving subjects.


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## skieur (May 13, 2010)

Garbz said:


> Restomage said:
> 
> 
> > I don't have lightroom, but I have photoshop, is there a tool in there?
> ...


 
You can to a certain degree fake either a polarizer or an ND grad filter in postprocessing.  I have both as software filter plug-ins.

The difference however is using the filters on the camera gives you more data to work with and therefore better quality, rather than massaging the data you have (which would be limited in darker areas) in post.

skieur


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## AUZambo (May 13, 2010)

I agree with everyone else who is suggesting the polarizer. If you do get the grad ND, are you talking about a circular one that screws onto the lens, or a rectangular one? The problem with the screw-on grad NDs is that the position of the filter and horizon is fixed.

Even if you don't have the holder, I'd get this filter (Grad ND Neutral Density Filter for Cokin P Brand NEW - eBay (item 220468869112 end time May-16-10 11:42:46 PDT)). You can hold the filter in front of the lens with your left hand while shooting with the right...and the filter is only $10.

the problem with the grad ND filter I have is that the transition is TOO gradual. I'd like to find something that is a mix between the split ND and the typical grad ND.


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## ghache (May 13, 2010)

if you get the NDg get the square one with the mount for your lens. 
at the end to are cheaper and work better since you can turn them as you want.
turnable round ndg filter are more expensive and then you are limited in your lens choice since you can only use the filter on lens that size.


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## RONDAL (May 13, 2010)

to do neutral gradient in PS:

when you enter PS hit "D"
- this will ensure that you have black/white as your two color swatches on lower left side of menu bar

if white shows up on top of black hit "X" to bring black to the foreground

hit ctrl+j to create a new layer

right click on layer mask icon-> click gradient

you should get a black gradient appear from bottom to top on screen

click REVERSE to flip the gradient 180 degrees.

you can also click on the gradient to the left of the box you are in and move it up or down to cover more or less of the image.  

once happy click OK

At the top left of layers panel (where you see BACKGROUND and LAYER 1) there will be a drop down box with i think NORMAL showing.  Drop down and fight SOFT LIGHT

This should create your ND filter effect.  you can change the opacity using the slider on the top RIGHT of the layers panel.

Once happy merge all layers.


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## Garbz (May 14, 2010)

skieur said:


> The difference however is using the filters on the camera gives you more data to work with and therefore better quality, rather than massaging the data you have (which would be limited in darker areas) in post.



Quite true, which is why I advocate that if you have a stable platform then take multiple exposures. Providing nothing moves this is "better" than an ND grad filter. Better meaning more customisable since you can chose the exact gradient.



AUZambo said:


> the problem with the grad ND filter I have is that the transition is TOO gradual. I'd like to find something that is a mix between the split ND and the typical grad ND.



All the more reason to do it in post if you have the patience


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## Restomage (May 14, 2010)

Thanks for the help everyone, went ahead and picked up a circular polarizer today. Also picked up a shutter release cable for my D700 (which is ridiculously overpriced by the way).


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## Dallmeyer (May 14, 2010)

The polarizer. But get a GND as soon as you can afford, if you're interested in  landscapes. Lee or Cokin square ones are more versatile, so you can adjust the filter to fit the desired composition rather than having to shoot a scene that fits your filter.


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## Garbz (May 14, 2010)

Restomage said:


> Also picked up a shutter release cable for my D700 (which is ridiculously overpriced by the way).



*facepalm* If you mentioned that I would have said that Nikon's $30 remote goes for about $4 on ebay, and Nikon's $100 remote (with the timer and stuff) goes for about $30 on ebay.


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## Restomage (May 15, 2010)

Garbz said:


> Restomage said:
> 
> 
> > Also picked up a shutter release cable for my D700 (which is ridiculously overpriced by the way).
> ...



I was going to ebay it however I need it this week.


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## Garbz (May 15, 2010)

Ahhh righto.


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## KongKurs (Jun 7, 2010)

Why is it that the polarizer is so popular?
Yes, the reflection of clouds in the water, as well as the look of the sky can be "adjusted", but aren't this pretty easily done in post?

The way I see it, a GND must be really rather impossible to live without, when shooting landscape photos, with sunsets and whatnot.

I don't own one yet, so bare with me, but I have just started examining the forums to get people's opinions on these..


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## Vinny (Jun 7, 2010)

I come from the film era and it was important back then to start off with as good an image as possible - I believe the same is true now as well in digital. If the scene lacks info for the software to be able to use - nothing will change. The other day I was looking a the sky without sunglasses and then put polarizer sunglasses on - what a big difference - the sensor would not have been able to get all the detail if I was going to take a photo and not use a polarizer.

As far as ND - I have one from years ago but it is a solid one. My guess is that I used it to cut the total amount of light the camera was receiving for certain shots. I never used a graduated one.


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## Dao (Jun 7, 2010)

KongKurs said:


> Why is it that the polarizer is so popular?
> Yes, the reflection of clouds in the water, as well as the look of the sky can be "adjusted", but aren't this pretty easily done in post?
> 
> The way I see it, a GND must be really rather impossible to live without, when shooting landscape photos, with sunsets and whatnot.
> ...



In this example here, it is hard to remove nor adjust the reflection in post.  I wish I took another photo without CPL.  Without the CPL, I won't able to capture the muddy brown color of the water at all.  Everything will looks like white.

Personally, CPL and ND filters are the 2 type of filters I will put them in my camera bag most of the time.


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## KongKurs (Jun 7, 2010)

Neat photo Dao, I see your point. The polarizer gives a "saturation boost" as well right..? Maybe this is better to obtain through filters and lenses, instead of doing it on the camera or in post...

I'm primarily interested in a GND - but maybe an ND solid could be useful as well.. Is it possible to use both at the same time? 

Can anyone recommend a typical "allround" GND filter - I guess the different types lets you choose between a percentage of blocked light in the upper part, as well as the extent of the "fading" part - but I wouldn't know what to look for?

The extent of the fading between upper and lower part has to be not too small, since a big difference between these will be visible on the shot, no?


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## Dao (Jun 7, 2010)

As far as using 2 filters at the same time.    I think you can do that with the Cokin filter system.

COKIN Creative System - The Holder System - Standard & Pro Holder


Just need to watch out for vignetting when multiple filters is used especially using wide angle lens and screw on type filters.


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## KongKurs (Jun 7, 2010)

OK, so I guess the Cokin P-series would be possible to use with my 18mm lens, without vignetting, right?
(18 mm ~ 28 mm [format35mm])


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