# Speling, Gramer, and juts bad writting: A rant.



## Jaemie (Jun 22, 2012)

> NEED HELP TO DICICED
> 
> I wanna get a nikon d3200 duty idk if I should is it a good camara I'm moving from a coolpox p500
> 
> you fail before sucsess



For many people, English is not their first language. For others, dyslexia and other issues may present challenges. I understand we all have differences in education. Some things cannot be helped, and that's okay.

But, then there is the post above. It's recent and I'm not identifying the poster; it doesn't matter who wrote it or what it was about. What does matter is how ubiquitous such poor writing is on this forum. We have a spell checker that tells you when a word is misspelled. There is Google. There is the whole goddamm internet! Is it so difficult to use these resources? I even thought this post might be a troll, but it's just too horrible.

And how does one screw up his/her own signature? That takes time and thought and it appears below every post. "You fail before sucsess"  You don't say!

:facepalm:


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## tom_bond88 (Jun 22, 2012)

Spelling has 2 L's and grammar 2 M's


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## tom_bond88 (Jun 22, 2012)

And Writing only has 1 T


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## Alex_B (Jun 22, 2012)

tom_bond88 said:


> And Writing only has 1 T



Wouldn't you consider she chose the spelling in the heading on purpose?

*tries to find that online guide to _irony, sarcasm and other stylistic devices_*


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## SCraig (Jun 22, 2012)

Let it go.  It annoys the hell out of me to but you aren't going to get anyone to change.  People are who they are and if they are too lazy to use a spell checker then complaining won't help.  Just ignore it and move on.


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## jaomul (Jun 22, 2012)

Probably some is due to predictive spelling or phone use. I know I am guilty of that sometiems


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## kharp (Jun 22, 2012)

Thank you! I actually saw that post earlier but didn't even click on it after reading the title. This is one of the things about the internet that really annoys me but what can you do? At least he/she actually spelled out the word "you".


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## Alex_B (Jun 22, 2012)

> [...] I'm moving from a *coolpox *p500



That is actually my quote of the day


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## Bitter Jeweler (Jun 22, 2012)

That post was from someone from another country.

We all miss use, or misspell words here and there. 
My peeve comes from professed writers, published writers even, who use words like "grantid" instead of "granted" repeatedly.
It's kind of a blow to their credibility. 

ALOT also makes me cringe.

But many still confuse there, their, and they're, and you and you're. Whatchagonnado?


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## sm4him (Jun 22, 2012)

I am an editor by vocation, so I feel your pain. However, I discovered long, long ago that my Grammar Police badge simply doesn't command the authority that I think it should. 

It is not just THIS forum; the internet is a haven for editorial laziness and ignorance. But we--the few, the educated, the grammar police--are simply not likely to change this.

What is way more disheartening to me is to see the way our youth write these days, and what English teachers are allowing! 
I blame it all on the elimination of sentence diagramming in our schools. 

Anyway, here's what I do:
--If I think there is any chance that English is not their first language, or they have some sort of disability, I overlook it.
--If I think perhaps they are posting from their phone, I overlook it (but think to myself, self--this is why one should not post comments from one's phone).
--If I think it is an unusually egregious misuse of the language, AND I think that the individual is usually more editorially precise, then I might point out the error.
--If I find the error particularly humorous, then I put my "snarky" hat on and have fun with it.
--If I think the poster is just a sloppy, lazy, editorial ignoramus then I also assume that they will not care nor change their ways if I point out their errors, so I simply ignore them. 

And finally:
--I try to remember that in a forum such as this, grammar need not be as precise or accurate as it should be for a paper.  This is a relaxed, casual atmosphere and people are going to type the way they might talk to each other. I do the same thing, using ellipses and run-on sentences and phrases that I would NEVER use in writing.
--I also try to remember that if you choose to point out other people's misuse of the English language, you are putting a target on your back to get attacked the next time YOU make a mistake.  

Just grit your teeth and IGNORE the OP.  And be thankful that YOUR momma raised you better.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Jun 22, 2012)

sm4him said:


> --I also try to remember that if you choose to point out other people's misuse of the English language, you are putting a target on your back to get attacked the next time YOU make a mistake.



THIS!


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## Alex_B (Jun 22, 2012)

Non-native speakers (like myself  ) should be "allowed" a higher failure rate regarding language. However, as stated above, in the given example www and mobile phone shortcode plus youngster-language result in maximum annoyance. 

Actually, for me this is simply hard to read sometimes.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Jun 22, 2012)

Alex, I have found that non native speakers tend to use the language better than native speakers.


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## 480sparky (Jun 22, 2012)

My issue is those who have been taught 'proper English', yet choose to be lazy bums and post like they're text-messaging their girlfriend.

Grammar, capitalization, punctuation, paragraphs, sentence structure, spelling.... all get tossed out the window like the baby's bathwater.


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## SCraig (Jun 22, 2012)

Alex_B said:


> Non-native speakers (like myself  ) should be "allowed" a higher failure rate regarding language. However, as stated above, in the given example www and mobile phone shortcode plus youngster-language result in maximum annoyance.
> 
> Actually, for me this is simply hard to read sometimes.


Personally I wish most Americans spelled and wrote as well as you do.

It seems to me that in many cases non-native speakers tend to be more careful with their grammar and spelling so there is no excuse for those of us to whom it is a native language.  I've seen some, particularly on another forum, that I honestly could not read.  It wasn't that they were HARD to read, I honestly could not understand what they were saying.  It is embarrassing to admit that some of these people live in the same country as I do and had the same educational opportunities as I did.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Jun 22, 2012)

So, I have a question.

How many people here judge others by their writing skills?
You know, if it looks like an idiot...


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## SCraig (Jun 22, 2012)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> So, I have a question.
> 
> How many people here judge others by their writing skills?
> You know, if it looks like an idiot...


I'm afraid that I do to a certain extent.  I'm willing to change that judgement as I learn more about them, but as a first impression poor writing skills on a public forum do give a poor impression.


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## 12sndsgood (Jun 22, 2012)

It is like anything else. If you go to someone in the right way it can have an effect on them. A few months ago I reveived a P.M. from a memeber here who mentioned something about my grammer and punctuation and that if I wanted to be seen as a professional I should work on it, It wasn't mean, he\she didn't call me out in a post, it was done in a helpful manner, and since then I have tried to look at what I'm typing out and make more of an effort into what I post. I still have a long way to go because years of not really caring become hard to break out of. It was lazyness plain and simple.


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## sm4him (Jun 22, 2012)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> So, I have a question.
> 
> How many people here judge others by their writing skills?
> You know, if it looks like an idiot...



Guilty as charged.

But, as SCraig said, I do sometimes change that opinion over time.
Very, VERY rarely.  Because, generally speaking, if they sound like an idiot...


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## Alex_B (Jun 22, 2012)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> So, I have a question.
> 
> How many people here judge others by their writing skills?
> You know, if it looks like an idiot...



I would distinguish diffferent cases:

1.) I cannot understand what he or she writes, as the writing is totally messed up, or at least it needs more energy to decipher than I am willing to invest.
Then I will ignore the person and not judge it at all.

2.) If the writing contains many typos, this might be annoying, but I would not judge the person. Typos can stem from either an "I do not care" attitude, or from typing in a hurry. The latter sometimes cannot be avoided and happens to myself often.

3.) If the writing is corrupted in a way that looks like the writer does not understand the language although he had all chances to learn, then I have to confess I do judge ...

4.) I have a strong opinion regarding text message style and gangsta talk on a forum. Then the most positive action would be ignoring that person. The only exception might be if the writer is 12 years old or younger.

5.) I know some people who are really challenged / disabled with respect to spelling. If they write in a corrupted way, that is OK for me. They have no chance to improve. But they are normally easy to identify, since the content of their writing will be intelligent and just the outer shell of spelling rules is broken.


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## yerlem (Jun 22, 2012)

SCraig said:


> Let it go.  It annoys the hell out of me to



*too



> I know I am guilty of that sometiems



*sometimes



> This is one of the things about the internet that really annoys me but what can you do?



[...]annoys me, but what can you do?.


J/K you guys! I, as a non-native speaker, tend to make mistakes, but I really try not to. I'm a grammar nazi in Spanish 

You should read this (as well as the entire blog, but this one link in particular):

Hyperbole and a Half: The Alot is Better Than You at Everything


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## KenC (Jun 22, 2012)

SCraig said:


> Alex_B said:
> 
> 
> > Non-native speakers (like myself  ) should be "allowed" a higher failure rate regarding language. However, as stated above, in the given example www and mobile phone shortcode plus youngster-language result in maximum annoyance.
> ...



This is sadly true.  At one time I was doing some teaching and found that the foreign-born students often made mistakes in grammar or spelling, but I was able to understand what they were saying because they had expressed a coherent thought.  Some (but by no means all, or even most) of the native-born students gave me stuff so jumbled I couldn't understand it at all, even if there were relatively few grammar/spelling errors.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Jun 22, 2012)

12sndsgood said:


> It is like anything else. If you go to someone in the right way it can have an effect on them. A few months ago I reveived a P.M. from a memeber here who mentioned something about my grammer and punctuation and that if I wanted to be seen as a professional I should work on it, It wasn't mean, he\she didn't call me out in a post, it was done in a helpful manner, and since then I have tried to look at what I'm typing out and make more of an effort into what I post. I still have a long way to go because years of not really caring become hard to break out of. It was lazyness plain and simple.



I bet I know who PM'd you. LOL


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## Ernicus (Jun 22, 2012)

I think it's a matter of laziness at times.  Which I am guilty of.  I am not that interested in reviewing and proofreading what I put up on the net, unless I am in an instructing position, or trying to get a valid point across.

However, when the red line pops up showing my fingers moved faster than my brain, as I type about 80 wpm, then I will right click and correct it.

One pet peeve of mine is grammar and basic paragraph composition.  I hate long run on paragraphs and the inability to assess what the hell the person is trying to say.  Those times I do judge a bit as I think to myself "what the hell would a real conversation be like with this person?".

I am also guilty of writing a sentence or two then spacing to another sentence, much like I have done here.  Traditionally, if people see long paragraphs...they instantly skip over them, as readers are lazy as well.  This way it is not overwhelming and things usually are read.

I am also guilty of using commas and ... mid sentence a lot, to break up my thoughts.  My brain has so many thoughts at once that I often even sidetrack myself.  lol.


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## Ernicus (Jun 22, 2012)

Jaemie said:


> > NEED HELP TO DICICED
> >
> > I wanna get a nikon d3200 duty idk if I should is it a good camara I'm moving from a coolpox p500
> >
> ...



It is funny that you quoted that thread entry, I almost replied with "you fail at spell-check"; but I didn't want to be a dick.  I had to tell myself no about three times.  lol.  It's hard, for me anyway, to not reply to such things...how are you supposed to be taken seriously if you truly have a serious question when you post jumble as such?


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## TamiAz (Jun 22, 2012)

I've never understood these types of posts...:scratch: There are people from all over the world that post on here and English is not their first language. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt and not get my panties in a bunch. Even though it's the internet, there is a human being on the other side with feelings and I don't see the need to make someone feel like sh*it for something so trivial. Just my .02.


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## HughGuessWho (Jun 22, 2012)

I couldn't care less about any of it. This is a photography forum, for those interested in photography to have an informal virtual dialog and conversation about photography and and related interests. In addition to the fact that I dont feel that it is my place or right to judge anyone for anything. 
It is annoying when you cannot understand what the poster is even saying, but, if that's the case, I just move on. No need for a grammar lesson or lashing from me for poor spelling or grammar.
Anyone who feels so compelled, should look in the mirror and correct all of their issues before judging others.
Just my opinion.
**steps off of soap box**


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## Stradawhovious (Jun 22, 2012)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> So, I have a question.
> 
> How many people here judge others by their writing skills?
> You know, if it looks like an idiot...



Eye due.



My oldest kid likes to text message as a main form of communication. I have had to take some pretty drastic measures to make sure he is using correct grammar, and spelling out his words.

There was a time when all of his messages looked like this "Ru cmg hme erly 2day? can u get sda?" Drove me up the wall.

If he sends me a text (and it is always him asking for something) and the words aren't correctly spelled out (i.e. "you" instead of "u" etc.) and he isn't using proper punctuation and grammar, the answer to whatever question he has will automatically be "no". Period. That has nipped that little habit in the bud, and his texts (to me anyways) are now spelled out, clear and appropriate.

As far as other people I don't have any authority over..... I can understand the occasional misspelled word, hell I'm as guilty as the rest. It's the blatant laziness of some of these posts that irk me. The constant misspelled words, the inappropriate abbreviations, the lack of proper punctuation and capitalization.......

It sets the bar pretty low for humanity as far as I'm concerned. What does it say about you when you aren't willing to take the time to clearly communicate with your peers? Don't get me wrong. It's not my place to try to correct this behavior in random intrawebz strangers.... but it certainly does help me form an opinion about them.

What can I say? I'm shallow like that.

ETA, this above post doesn't apply to ESL folks that are trying to succesfully communicate, to the best of their ability, with those who have English as a first language.


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## tmjjk (Jun 22, 2012)

sm4him said:


> I am an editor by vocation, so I feel your pain. However, I discovered long, long ago that my Grammar Police badge simply doesn't command the authority that I think it should.
> 
> It is not just THIS forum; the internet is a haven for editorial laziness and ignorance. But we--the few, the educated, the grammar police--are simply not likely to change this.
> 
> ...



I think Vacation is spelled with an A.... 
Sorry I couldn't help myself.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Jun 22, 2012)

Dude.

 ETA is Estimated Time of Arrival.

 Get your acronyms right!


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## Josh66 (Jun 22, 2012)

I don't worry about it too much.  It is annoying to me, but (depending on the post) sometimes it doesn't bother me as much.  Other times I simply ignore the post and move on.

It doesn't really matter much though.  These people will never be 'competing' with me for anything, and I can't _make_ them change.

What I think is funny as hell - and I have actually seen it - is when these people write their résumés.  I'll tell you, that's some good reading there.  :lmao:


(I'm talking about the people who do it out of laziness.  Text-speak and such.)


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## Bitter Jeweler (Jun 22, 2012)

Special thanks goes out to HughGuessWho, for "Like" #3000.

:smileys:


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## Jaemie (Jun 22, 2012)

sm4him said:


> --I also try to remember that if you choose to point out other people's misuse of the English language, you are putting a target on your back to get attacked the next time YOU make a mistake.



I encourage people to correct my language. If I make a mistake, by all means please tell me.


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## sm4him (Jun 22, 2012)

Stradawhovious said:


> My oldest kid likes to text message as a main form of communication. I have had to take some pretty drastic measures to make sure he is using correct grammar, and spelling out his words.
> 
> There was a time when all of his messages looked like this "Ru cmg hme erly 2day? can u get sda?" Drove me up the wall.



A bit of an aside, but I had to comment on the text messaging.

My kids, of their own accord, absolutely REFUSE to use many of the texting abbreviations, like "u." As my youngest says, "Seriously, if you don't have time to type the extra TWO letters, why are you even bothering?"
So, their friends always thought they were kinda weird, sending texts with complete sentences and punctuation.  But then, they were raised by a Grammar Nerd and they both have absolutely enormous vocabularies.

I once got a text message from my eldest with the word "pontificate" in it.   Really?!? Who uses a word like that in a TEXT message?? Well, besides MY children...


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## Jaemie (Jun 22, 2012)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> Alex, I have found that non native speakers tend to use the language better than native speakers.



This is my experience, also.


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## sm4him (Jun 22, 2012)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> Special thanks goes out to HughGuessWho, for "Like" #3000.
> 
> :smileys:



I really didn't even WANT to press the "like" for this post...but I just had to. 
3,000+ likes. I gotta start paying people more to "like" me.


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## Stradawhovious (Jun 22, 2012)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> Dude.
> 
> ETA is Estimated Time of Arrival.
> 
> Get your acronyms right!





Wow. You must think I'm an idiot.

Sorry 'bout that!


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## Jaemie (Jun 22, 2012)

SCraig said:


> Bitter Jeweler said:
> 
> 
> > So, I have a question.
> ...



I agree. For better or for worse, that first post can leave a memorable impression.


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## IByte (Jun 22, 2012)

SCraig said:
			
		

> Let it go.  It annoys the hell out of me to but you aren't going to get anyone to change.  People are who they are and if they are too lazy to use a spell checker then complaining won't help.  Just ignore it and move on.



OMG textspeak is taking over!!.  I admit when I'm drunk and post or email I mess up a few...many times.  But I also have the common sense to either edit or apologize for my bad grammar.


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## KmH (Jun 22, 2012)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> So, I have a question.
> 
> How many people here judge others by their writing skills?
> You know, if it looks like an idiot...


Most people judge others by their writing skills, either consciously, or unconsciously. (I had to visit Bing to check the spelling of consciously).

I make mistakes writing posts, an hate it when I do. But, as may of you know, I have no problem being corrected, or taking someone else to task for apparently just lazy practices like using all lower case, or using .....

Mistakes are in fact learning opportunities, and though there is no doubt the goal is to minimize the frequency of making mistakes, mistakes nonetheless have positive value.


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## IByte (Jun 22, 2012)

Bitter Jeweler said:
			
		

> That post was from someone from another country.
> 
> We all miss use, or misspell words here and there.
> My peeve comes from professed writers, published writers even, who use words like "grantid" instead of "granted" repeatedly.
> ...



***ettaboutit!


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## Espike (Jun 22, 2012)

sm4him said:


> self--this is why one should not post comments from one's phone



This got me! My phone is strictly for reading, not posting.

As far as texting goes, being a young professional, I feel that I get judged by the older folks at work as being just some kid. Sending sloppy texts only serves to reinforce that belief.


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## IByte (Jun 22, 2012)

IByte said:
			
		

> ***ettaboutit!








I've been bleeped?  All I said was fogettaboutit! ><


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## Jaemie (Jun 22, 2012)

TamiAz said:


> I've never understood these types of posts...:scratch: There are people from all over the world that post on here and English is not their first language.



As I stated in my first post:



Jaemie said:


> For many people, English is not their first language. For others, dyslexia and other issues may present challenges. I understand we all have differences in education. Some things cannot be helped, and that's okay.



Besides, as others have pointed out, people for whom English is a second language generally write better than native English speakers. Often, much better.



TamiAz said:


> I like to give people the benefit of the doubt and not get my panties in a bunch.



My panties aren't in a bunch, today.  June 22nd is No Panties Day!  https://www.facebook.com/events/285519751547104/


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## Josh66 (Jun 22, 2012)

KmH said:


> I make mistakes writing posts, *an* hate it when I do.


Muphry&#8217;s Law in action.


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## Espike (Jun 22, 2012)

yerlem said:


> Hyperbole and a Half: The Alot is Better Than You at Everything



That is _hilarious_ Thanks for showing this to me, now I _will _be unproductive at work today! (oh wait, I've been here for an hour and haven't left the forum...)


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## sm4him (Jun 22, 2012)

O|||||||O said:


> KmH said:
> 
> 
> > I make mistakes writing posts, *an* hate it when I do.
> ...



LOL! And I repeat: if you choose to point out other people's misuse of the English  language, you are putting a target on your back to get attacked the next  time YOU make a mistake.


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## Jaemie (Jun 22, 2012)

Sometimes, for effect, I'll write in lolspeak. Or, I'll use technical jargon or some silliness from an internet meme. The difference is, I know the difference and such use is intentional.

And finally, for anyone who still thinks I'm just being a snotty grammar princess, once again..



> *coolpox* p500


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## Josh66 (Jun 22, 2012)

sm4him said:


> O|||||||O said:
> 
> 
> > KmH said:
> ...


Did you read the link?


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## sm4him (Jun 22, 2012)

O|||||||O said:


> sm4him said:
> 
> 
> > O|||||||O said:
> ...



I did now. Fair enough. I sit corrected. I'd stand corrected, but well, I'm sitting down.


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## Jaemie (Jun 22, 2012)

yerlem said:


> Hyperbole and a Half: The Alot is Better Than You at Everything



"ALOT MORE DANGEROUS ...baby less dangerous"  

Yay - Hyperbole and a Half!


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## c.cloudwalker (Jun 22, 2012)

Jaemie said:


> Bitter Jeweler said:
> 
> 
> > Alex, I have found that non native speakers tend to use the language better than native speakers.
> ...



+1!

Because I've lived in a few more countries than most people and have had to deal with a bunch of foreign languages, I try to pay attention to the place of origin of the speaker or writer and try to be cool about non-natives' mistakes.

But I totally agree with the above statement and I think the reason is actually quite simple: when it is your native tongue, you'll do as your peers do and if that means speaking or writing in a sloppy way, so be it. But when you are a foreigner and you are trying hard to get accepted, you will try your hardest to speak and write in that new language the best way you can. Not to mention that when you were taught that language as a foreign language instead of learning it at home, you paid a lot more attention to the rules, so that non-natives often do speak way better than the natives.

And I'm seeing quite a bit of it here right now with one of the two companies that I'm setting up. One of them has to do with Africa so that I deal with a whole bunch of africans. Their french is 90% better than the average french native.

I was often told the same about my english when I lived in the US. No, I'm not american by birth and english is a foreign language to me. 

So, yes, I do judge people by their language skills but I try to pay attention to who they are and why they speak in such a way. For example, the second company I'm working on is doing business in the rural areas of Normandy and you could think those people speak the worst of french. But the reality is that they are not native speakers. Their mother tongue is that of the area, one of the Normandy dialects. French, to them is a foreign language. Even if it is close to their own.

My sister lives in Alsace, an area next to Germany which, a few times during the last few hundred years of its history, was actually part of Germany. And the local language is not french. It's a germanic dialect and a lot of the older folks don't even speak french at all. Employment ads in that area always mention needed skills in german 

But laziness or carelessness is not and never will be an excuse.


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## kundalini (Jun 22, 2012)

I ignore posts with large blocks of text _*especially *_when there is no capitalization, no double space between sentences and no delineation of thoughts.

I also keep dictionary.com and merriam-webster.com in my browser's favorite bar for quick reference of questionable spelling on my part.


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## rexbobcat (Jun 22, 2012)

Pretentious writers are just as annoying as incompetent writers in my eyes lol.


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## o hey tyler (Jun 22, 2012)

Alex_B said:


> > [...] I'm moving from a *coolpox *p500
> 
> 
> 
> That is actually my quote of the day



It's the most awesome disease since PowerHerpes S100.


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