# Does anyone want to edit my picture?



## gigiphotography (May 13, 2010)

I have photoshop and I'm learning very slowly but I'm trying to put a lighter background on this picture since it's so dark.  Was wondering if anyone wanted to play around with it.


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## Sw1tchFX (May 13, 2010)

ehh i dunno. 

Not very sharp picture + hair = mess. 

It takes a _really_ sharp picture to be able to do clipping paths well, and a sharp picture this is not. it would be easier and less time consuming to try and do it right the first time. Also if you can't, at least try to work with what you have and givemore exposure if needed.


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## page_tyson (May 13, 2010)




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## Bitter Jeweler (May 13, 2010)

Sw1tchFX said:


> it would be easier and less time consuming to try and do it right the first time.


 
:thumbup:

:chatty:


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## DuckRabbit Digital (May 13, 2010)

You could try bumping the exposure, like he said. Or, alternately, adding curves. It's going to be difficult with the hair.

Go into your layers palette and click on the circle with one half dark and one half light. Choose curves from the pop-up menu.

This is putting an adjustment layer over the image, which means that you aren't editing the image directly (you can undo all of it). 

Pull the curve until the background is how you want it, ignoring how it is making the girl look. 

Click out, and make sure that you are still on the curve layer in your layers palette. Then click on the brush tool and choose black. You can then paint away the areas that you don't want to be affected by the curve, i.e., the girl. 

However, you will have to go in and do the individual hairs with a small brush, so it is going to be a pain. 

Hope that helps.


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## Scatterbrained (May 13, 2010)

I primarily just added some fill light with lightroom. Don't have photoshop up and running yet. It looks like the background was black or dark gray?


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## gigiphotography (May 13, 2010)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> Sw1tchFX said:
> 
> 
> > it would be easier and less time consuming to try and do it right the first time.
> ...




aren't you just the sweetest thing ever!  You make me want to leave this sight!!!


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## Bitter Jeweler (May 13, 2010)

It's "site".


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## gigiphotography (May 13, 2010)

Sw1tchFX said:


> ehh i dunno.
> 
> Not very sharp picture + hair = mess.
> 
> It takes a _really_ sharp picture to be able to do clipping paths well, and a sharp picture this is not. it would be easier and less time consuming to try and do it right the first time. Also if you can't, at least try to work with what you have and givemore exposure if needed.




I'm sorry is this not a beginner's forum????


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## gigiphotography (May 13, 2010)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> It's "site".




you are a bitter person!!!!


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## Bitter Jeweler (May 13, 2010)

Yeah?

Well, you rely too much on post processing and gimmicks.


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## gigiphotography (May 13, 2010)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> Yeah?
> 
> Well, you rely too much on post processing and gimmicks.




In what you've seen maybe....you no nothing but what you have seen.  Keep up discouraging new people.  Must make your day!


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## seekcreative (May 13, 2010)

I know C&C is and can hurt some feelings, being a designer I know all too well about that. I have seen women cry from C&C in person, but in the long run they were better designers for it. However, on the other hand, this IS a beginners forum and while I think a lot of the work, or at least the saving of it later, could have been done on the front end of this image, the fact remains that it wasn't. 

She is merely trying to get some help and guidance. Being a designer, I would never ask someone to "play" or mess around with my work as I would want to learn myself and figure it out.

Direction and guidance can be taken, given and mistrewed in many different ways. Not taking sides here, just can see it from both sides of the fence. If it's taken too personally it will close her off from future C&C's. However, at the same time, if we are all too concerned about her feelings then we won't help her progress as a good photographer.


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## Bitter Jeweler (May 13, 2010)

So what you post on your website isn't an example of your "best" work to show potential customers? 75% of those are selective color.

What I have seen, is you posting photo after photo, asking how to fix it in post, rather than asking how to get it right with the camera.


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## gigiphotography (May 13, 2010)

seekcreative said:


> I know C&C is and can hurt some feelings, being a designer I know all too well about that. I have seen women cry from C&C in person, but in the long run they were better designers for it. However, on the other hand, this IS a beginners forum and while I think a lot of the work, or at least the saving of it later, could have been done on the front end of this image, the fact remains that it wasn't.
> 
> She is merely trying to get some help and guidance. Being a designer, I would never ask someone to "play" or mess around with my work as I would want to learn myself and figure it out.
> 
> Direction and guidance can be taken, given and mistrewed in many different ways. Not taking sides here, just can see it from both sides of the fence. If it's taken too personally it will close her off from future C&C's. However, at the same time, if we are all too concerned about her feelings then we won't help her progress as a good photographer.



thank you and I do want cc it can just be done in a nicer way then some people like to do it.


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## mwcfarms (May 13, 2010)

Switch wasnt being rude he was giving you his opinion which Bitter agreed with. I mean why post again something thats already been said. The original pics exposure is off and yes its on a dark background so it makes the whole thing even darker. Instead of focusing on what you perceived as negativity from whom ever. Go shoot the picture again. Keep the hair clean, fix the exposure and then play around with it. There are tons of Youtube videos on how to change background not too mention someone else's reply here. Good luck and dont be discouraged because of negative critisiscm, learn what you can from it and go apply it.


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## bigtwinky (May 13, 2010)

I've always found bitter's up front-ness and honesty a great encouragement to be real and get things done the right way.

Plus, he has nice hats

But thats me.  

I do echo his sentiment though.  Get it right in camera the first time and limit the post work you need to do.  As switch said, there are limits to what can be done in post.  While alot can be done, when the basic image is not good or tack sharp, you severely limit yourself to what can be done.

Someone may have to spend 2 hours on an image that is not as nice while it would be 20 mins on something that is well shot


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## gigiphotography (May 13, 2010)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> So what you post on your website isn't an example of your "best" work to show potential customers? 75% of those are selective color.
> 
> What I have seen, is you posting photo after photo, asking how to fix it in post, rather than asking how to get it right with the camera.




Look my customer's like my work!  I like selective coloring and most of the selective coloring I do is on my own kids!  I don't want your cc.  You don't know how to be nice and offer help.  I desire to be the best I can be but I don't have to deal with someone that can be mean, hurtful, and sarcastic!


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## Aayria (May 13, 2010)

Here is my take on it-  I'm sure it could be done better, and I had to give her a hair cut to pull it off, but it works. I do agree though- your best bet is to re-shoot this with a different backdrop.  A lot can be done in post, but it would  look cleaner with something lighter than black.


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## bigtwinky (May 13, 2010)

Isn't there a way to ignore a user so that you no longer see any of their posts?


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## mwcfarms (May 13, 2010)

Yup you go into your control panel and add them to ignore user. But be forwarned you will no longer see any of there posts and Im sorry but Bitter is talented and yes he's point blank blunt, his delivery might lack finess but his advice is generally spot on. You could learn from him. So you know he can be sarcastic and blunt bordering on rude, whatever he knows his ****, when he is being a smart ass call him on it but that means you just might have to admit he's right.


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## gigiphotography (May 13, 2010)

bigtwinky said:


> Isn't there a way to ignore a user so that you no longer see any of their posts?




yes and I just took care of that


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## gigiphotography (May 13, 2010)

Aayria said:


> Here is my take on it-  I'm sure it could be done better, and I had to give her a hair cut to pull it off, but it works. I do agree though- your best bet is to re-shoot this with a different backdrop.  A lot can be done in post, but it would  look cleaner with something lighter than black.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Bitter Jeweler (May 13, 2010)

gigiphotography said:


> Thank you so much! This is exactly what I was looking for. She is in a pageant and I don't have time or does she have the patience for a reshoot. Sometimes you have to do the best you can with what you have. Especially with a child.


 Ah, I see.
You weren't looking for help learning how to do something.
You were looking for free labor.
Well played.


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## syphlix (May 13, 2010)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> gigiphotography said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you so much! This is exactly what I was looking for. She is in a pageant and I don't have time or does she have the patience for a reshoot. Sometimes you have to do the best you can with what you have. Especially with a child.
> ...



seems that way


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## vtf (May 13, 2010)




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## dom yo (May 13, 2010)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> gigiphotography said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you so much! This is exactly what I was looking for. She is in a pageant and I don't have time or does she have the patience for a reshoot. Sometimes you have to do the best you can with what you have. Especially with a child.
> ...


yea that makes me mad


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## gigiphotography (May 13, 2010)

dom yo said:


> Bitter Jeweler said:
> 
> 
> > gigiphotography said:
> ...




I asked if anyone wanted to edit my picture or if anyone could help me.  I wasn't looking for free labor and she didn't have to do it if she didn't want to.  I love editing pictures so if someone asked me to do it I wouldn't mind helping someone else at all.  I've been look at how to's all morning, so it wasn't like I was sitting back and letting someone else do all the work.  I agree delete the post and you all go about your business.  There's way more people on here that want your opinion than me.


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## gigiphotography (May 13, 2010)

vtf said:


>


   I agree


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## gigiphotography (May 13, 2010)

Aayria said:


> Here is my take on it-  I'm sure it could be done better, and I had to give her a hair cut to pull it off, but it works. I do agree though- your best bet is to re-shoot this with a different backdrop.  A lot can be done in post, but it would  look cleaner with something lighter than black.


I want to thank you for what you did.  I wasn't at all looking for free labor.  I want to know how to do it but I also asked if anyone wanted to do it.  I hope that I have not offended you in anyway.


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## gsgary (May 13, 2010)

gigiphotography said:


> bigtwinky said:
> 
> 
> > Isn't there a way to ignore a user so that you no longer see any of their posts?
> ...



You have just ignored someone who can help you, I must be on quite and few ignore lists 
First off you are using a shutter speed that is too slow for your focal length giving you a soft image, if you want a lighter background you have to light it it's no good thinking you can do everything in photoshop, when i shoot i try and get everything right in camera so when i go into LR it takes me about 1 minute per photo
If i was to edit your shot i would delete it


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## creisinger (May 13, 2010)

Wow - just wow.


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## photonewbie86 (May 13, 2010)

Its not even about the photo anymore...


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## gigiphotography (May 13, 2010)

Yeah too much drama for me. I'm out!:thumbdown:


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## bigtwinky (May 13, 2010)

photonewbie86 said:


> Its not even about the photo anymore...


 
There is more to a photo than just the end result.  There is the prep work that has to be done to get a good image and the post work that needs to be done to get the effect you want.

Many people think that its just about clicking the shutter and dont spend time in the viewfinder framing and checking their settings to ensure the best photo possible under the given circumstances.

So yeah, its not always about the photo, its about the process


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## seekcreative (May 13, 2010)

I am curious about one thing. I am not accusing, just...perplexed. What photo editing software do you use? You mentioned you are not good at Photoshop...well, what program ARE you good at? If you are a photographer looking for help, then learn the program as best you can. 

If I am going to sell my work or have clients, I better be damn sure I am familiar, comfortable and know what I am doing in PP. Especially if I don't compose the original image correctly. It seems fairly beginner level-ish that the latest edit to the image is what you were looking. Nothing more than a mask, a feathered edge and some basic edits. I am not trying to jump on the bandwagon here, just wondering just what it is that you are able to handle in Post work yourself.


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## gigiphotography (May 13, 2010)

seekcreative said:


> I am curious about one thing. I am not accusing, just...perplexed. What photo editing software do you use? You mentioned you are not good at Photoshop...well, what program ARE you good at? If you are a photographer looking for help, then learn the program as best you can.
> 
> If I am going to sell my work or have clients, I better be damn sure I am familiar, comfortable and know what I am doing in PP. Especially if I don't compose the original image correctly. It seems fairly beginner level-ish that the latest edit to the image is what you were looking. Nothing more than a mask, a feathered edge and some basic edits. I am not trying to jump on the bandwagon here, just wondering just what it is that you are able to handle in Post work yourself.



I've used photobucket and picnik.  I just got photoshop and it's not the easiest program to work.  I am very comfortable doing things with the programs I am used too I am just wanting to expand my knowledge with photoshop and what I am able to do with a photo pp with photoshop.  If your interested in my work you can look at my blog gigiphotog.blogspot.com


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## gsgary (May 13, 2010)

gigiphotography said:


> seekcreative said:
> 
> 
> > I am curious about one thing. I am not accusing, just...perplexed. What photo editing software do you use? You mentioned you are not good at Photoshop...well, what program ARE you good at? If you are a photographer looking for help, then learn the program as best you can.
> ...



It would be better to get the camera side of thing sorted before worrying about PP, with any editing program if photo has blur it will come with blur with some fancy effects


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## Aayria (May 13, 2010)

gigiphotography said:


> I want to thank you for what you did.  I wasn't at all looking for free labor.  I want to know how to do it but I also asked if anyone wanted to do it.  I hope that I have not offended you in anyway.



  No worries, not offended in the least- I really enjoy playing around with pictures, and your little girl is precious

   I do think, though, that you don't need to have your defenses up quite so high if you want to post pictures here.  Behind what is easily perceived as sarcasm and rudeness on some replies to you was actually sincere, good advice.  One rule I always try to follow when interacting on internet forums is this: 

  "Don't reply as though you're taking it personally or having a conversation with a single person. Interact with the subject at hand, not the individuals."

  This works well to keep in mind especially when people seem rude or feel the temptation to interpret their replies as mean-ness directed your way.  

   As far as what I did, I wasn't sure if you'd want to use it because I kind of threw it together.  I used a backdrop from another image I had done, and magic-lasso'd your picture onto it. Then I feathered her hair, and cloned over the strands that were too thin to work around (making it look like she had her hair cut..) 

  Then I healed the edges, brought up the exposure, saturation, color temp, and decreased the shadows.  Then brightened the eyes with the brush, sharpened them as well.  Then I healed her skin, blurred it to make it softer, and dodged the eyes one last bit.

  After that, I applied the orton effect with soft light to get the nice soft-glow feel all over.


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## Geaux (May 13, 2010)

I've always wanted Bitter's thoughts on my photos, but never got them ... I guess that means I was doing at least 'SOMETHING' right. lol.

I agree with other posters, you've blocked someone who is 'in your face' truthful and is only doing it to help.  I enjoy reading his thoughts lol.


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## gigiphotography (May 13, 2010)

Aayria said:


> gigiphotography said:
> 
> 
> > I want to thank you for what you did.  I wasn't at all looking for free labor.  I want to know how to do it but I also asked if anyone wanted to do it.  I hope that I have not offended you in anyway.
> ...



Thanks for letting me know how to do it.  I'm about to print all this out so I can go practice.  I do wear my heart on my sleeve and I was warned that it could get pretty harsh in here.  I'd just like the advice without the ugliness.  At least that's what'd I'd give.  That is my daughter too.  I'd never take a picture of someone else if I didn't know what I was doing.


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## bigtwinky (May 13, 2010)

Geaux said:


> I've always wanted Bitter's thoughts on my photos, but never got them ... I guess that means I was doing at least 'SOMETHING' right. lol.


 
Or that you are totally beyond saving  :lmao:
:hugs:


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## Geaux (May 13, 2010)

bigtwinky said:


> Geaux said:
> 
> 
> > I've always wanted Bitter's thoughts on my photos, but never got them ... I guess that means I was doing at least 'SOMETHING' right. lol.
> ...


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## gigiphotography (May 13, 2010)

erose86 said:


> gigiphotography said:
> 
> 
> > That is my daughter too. I'd never take a picture of someone else if I didn't know what I was doing.
> ...


 
I have clients plural but this was not a client's picture.  It is one of my daughters.


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## gigiphotography (May 13, 2010)

Geaux said:


> bigtwinky said:
> 
> 
> > Geaux said:
> ...


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## ababysean (May 13, 2010)

Is English your first language?
I think something is getting lost in translation...


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## KmH (May 13, 2010)

Nothing is getting lost.


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## Derrel (May 13, 2010)

Hi Gigi,
 I've been following this thread throughout the day. I looked at the original photo large in PS this morning, and gave sort of a sigh...at that time, I spotted some technical faults that made me not want to try and retouch or post process the photo. Also, at that time, the thread seemed to be deteriorating,and I figured it wouldn't really help much. I then went to your blog, to see what your photos and you were "all about".

Here's my comments about the thread and your work. First, I think Sw1tchFX and Bitter and others are trying to tell you that it is always easier to get things right in-camera than it is to take a less than perfect image and try and retouch it. There seems to be shutter speed blur that rendered her hair blurry, so clipping path approaches will be a PITA. If you want a lighter background, shooting in front of a lighter,even-toned background is always,always easier. A background with a color scheme that is NOT found in the subject's clothing or complexion will allow very fast, pretty easy selective color hue shifts in the background using NO clipping paths, but just selective color in Photoshop. For example, if you shot that on black seamless, but lighted the background with a strong blue-colored gel, you could shift the background to yellow or orange-ish or green hues very easily, in seconds, without the need to do a clipping path or any masking...

The idea of digital photography is to work from good source material, or source material that is either 1) ideally or 2) realistically re-touchable or modifiable, without the need to knock one's self out doing it. If the photo had been shot on either a green or blue chroma-key backdrop, and had been rendered crisply with say an electronic flash fired through an umbrella, people could drop in backdrops for you in 1 or 2 minutes, clone out her skin blemishes, create a layer and soften it, then modify the layers (screen, multiply, soft light, whatever) and then merge the layers, flatten, and post up a modified JPEG for you,and it would look fantastic. The problem comes from the way the source file was photographed...it's not meant as a slam, but I know Sw1tchFX's background in studio/commerical photography and what he was telling you is spot-on advice...it's easier, much,much easier to simply do a re-shoot with a,lighter background than it is to re-arrange 3 million pixels after the fact. A quick under-the-chin placement of a white Foam Core board would produce lower-eyeball catchlights that would add shape,sparkle,and dimension and would look "real" and would save a huge amount of retouching effort.

I think you could use a good umbrella and electronic flash and a decent under-chin reflector system to good use with your kid photography. The "quality of light" that a good umbrella would bring would step your photos up several notches.


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## gigiphotography (May 13, 2010)

Derrel said:


> Hi Gigi,
> I've been following this thread throughout the day. I looked at the original photo large in PS this morning, and gave sort of a sigh...at that time, I spotted some technical faults that made me not want to try and retouch or post process the photo. Also, at that time, the thread seemed to be deteriorating,and I figured it wouldn't really help much. I then went to your blog, to see what your photos and you were "all about".
> 
> Here's my comments about the thread and your work. First, I think Sw1tchFX and Bitter and others are trying to tell you that it is always easier to get things right in-camera than it is to take a less than perfect image and try and retouch it. There seems to be shutter speed blur that rendered her hair blurry, so clipping path approaches will be a PITA. If you want a lighter background, shooting in front of a lighter,even-toned background is always,always easier. A background with a color scheme that is NOT found in the subject's clothing or complexion will allow very fast, pretty easy selective color hue shifts in the background using NO clipping paths, but just selective color in Photoshop. For example, if you shot that on black seamless, but lighted the background with a strong blue-colored gel, you could shift the background to yellow or orange-ish or green hues very easily, in seconds, without the need to do a clipping path or any masking...
> ...



So having seen my other photography do you think I have potential or do they all look like the post I posted today to you?


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## tsaraleksi (May 13, 2010)

As a followup to Derrel's post (which is, I think, spot on), a great first step before investing in expensive lighting systems is doing work with reflectors. A reflector can be anything that is, well, reflective, which range from a $2 piece of foamcore board purchased at Wal-Mart to a $200+ photography-specfic foldable unit. A reflector lets you take greater advantage of available light and direct light where you want it to go. It is WYSIWYG so it's very easy to learn and can really help kick the 'pop' of your photos up a notch.


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## gigiphotography (May 13, 2010)

erose86 said:


> gigiphotography said:
> 
> 
> > erose86 said:
> ...



I knew that it was doable bc of what I had seen online.  I had the picture of my daughter knowing that it wasn't the best shot, but one of the best I had shot in that setting.  Have no time to redo it.  I would have never posted the pic for help if I had time to redo it on a different backdrop.  I used black bc I wanted a solid back drop.


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## gigiphotography (May 13, 2010)

Thank you so much.  I will do that!


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## gigiphotography (May 13, 2010)

tsaraleksi said:


> As a followup to Derrel's post (which is, I think, spot on), a great first step before investing in expensive lighting systems is doing work with reflectors. A reflector can be anything that is, well, reflective, which range from a $2 piece of foamcore board purchased at Wal-Mart to a $200+ photography-specfic foldable unit. A reflector lets you take greater advantage of available light and direct light where you want it to go. It is WYSIWYG so it's very easy to learn and can really help kick the 'pop' of your photos up a notch.



Thanks I will def do that!


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## Derrel (May 13, 2010)

gigiphotography said:


> So having seen my other photography do you think I have potential or do they all look like the post I posted today to you?



Your other photos do not look like this one. Your style is new and unpolished...you don't really have a defined, refined, 'predictable' style at this point. Photography is a life long learning experience,and you're busy with the kids and the house and the whole pageant thing, and blogging and other interests. You've got the basics of photography down, but this type of "glitz" type of photo could be done best with as much in-camera lighting help as is possible. Like tsaraleski (Alex) notes, reflectors can be a huge help, and their wysiwyg nature makes them easy to work with, and they can be really simple, like Foam Core or "poster board", or high-tech like the Lastolite Tri-Flector.

I'm not gonna bag on your photos gigi.:hug:: Keep at the photography thing, and it'll only get better and better. Learning the "secrets" of photographing people well involves learning how to do things the so-called right way, or the so-called "proven" ways, and that involves using the full array of tools and techniques available today. I learned most of my photography 10,15, 20 years before Photoshop was available,and before it was feasible to digitize images, so my approach is old-fashioned...I cannot do Photoshop nearly as well as many younger people, so if I want a highlight or a reflection or fill lighting, I actually think in terms of putting it there, in the real world...


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## gigiphotography (May 13, 2010)

Derrel said:


> gigiphotography said:
> 
> 
> > So having seen my other photography do you think I have potential or do they all look like the post I posted today to you?
> ...



Thank you so much.  I appreciate your input!


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## c.cloudwalker (May 13, 2010)

Wow, Derrel is feeling generous today. The good feeling you are getting from this is unfortunately not going to help you much in the long run.

Considering your reaction to the last time I tried to help you, I had no intention to even look at this thread but, I'm only human, and after 60 posts I just had to take a look. Sure was a popcorn thread.

If you want to make it here and learn something about photography in the process, you need to seriously grow some hippo skin and learn to tell who is helping from who is just making you feel good.

Feel good responses are of no help in the long run. Get over it. Or tell us you're not really interested in learning so we can ignore you.


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## gigiphotography (May 13, 2010)

He said somethings in a nice way to help me out!  DO YOU HAVE TO BE MEAN TO GIVE CC?  I think not!!!  There were plenty of people that weren't getting smart with me when they were helping me and that's the way it should be done. I don't intend on sticking around here long.  I will go to a pro and get lessons not talk to people I don't even know nor have I seen their work.  Now I am a good christian mom and I'm off to cook dinner for my family.  I've had enough of this. If you all want to waste your time continuing talking about my picture go ahead.


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## mwcfarms (May 13, 2010)

gigiphotography said:


> He said somethings in a nice way to help me out! DO YOU HAVE TO BE MEAN TO GIVE CC? I think not!!! There were plenty of people that weren't getting smart with me when they were helping me and that's the way it should be done. I don't intend on sticking around here long. I will go to a pro and get lessons not talk to people I don't even know nor have I seen their work. *Now I am a good christian mom and I'm off to cook dinner for my family.* I've had enough of this. If you all want to waste your time continuing talking about my picture go ahead.


 

Huh guess thats why my mom never made dinner. :lmao: 

I stand by my first post. Switch wasnt being mean and neither was Bitter till you got all twisted out of shape. Sorry hon, Im not jumping on the band wagon just saying is all. Maybe you should leave it for the night and come back tomorrow with a fresh face forward. :coffee:


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## c.cloudwalker (May 13, 2010)

No, nobody needs to be mean but "mean" is as subjective as art. Get over it if you want to learn. Bitter is NOT warm and fuzzy but he is not mean and has a lot to teach you. Plenty of people here will readily tell you (me first) that I am not warm and fuzzy either but I also have a lot to teach you. The question, again, is: do you want to learn?

I will point you to this thread 
http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...lery/202840-first-glitz-shot-cc-please-2.html
in which you thanked a person that told you your photo was good when it is not. True, you also thanked shmne even though he was a bit more real, barely.

As far as I can tell I'm the only one who did any research into the glitz-shot thing before responding to you which means I'm the only one who gave you a useful response. Yet you totally ignored it. WTF?

Not the answer you were expecting? Fine, but don't overlook it because it doesn't please you. Or, again, tell us right now that you are not really interested in learning. Then, those of us who do try to teach something can ignore you and you will get only warm-fuzzy responses.


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## Bitter Jeweler (May 13, 2010)

I could say a lot right now. I could be really nasty. I won't.

Thing is, seeing all this womans threads, and her website, I see a beginner, already in business, not knowing how to take good pictures. So much over-processing and use of gimmicks. Selective color, vignetting, that wierd "it's artsy" 30degree tilt, etc... Bad lighting, on camera flash and their accompaning very harsh shadows and ghosting. If I remember correctly, she has always asked how to fix things in post. I haven't seen here ask how to get better lighting. "Help me remove this shadow" was one of my favorites. She has a ways to go before she is "in business". But that doesn't matter, because I got the best response ever. Which is typical. "My clients are happy with my work". Well, great. I am glad to see the what the standard is for the industry.

Oh, yeah. I wanted to ask why it was necessary to throw in the "I am a good christian..." comment in there?
Does that make you better than an atheist heathen?


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## bigboi3 (May 13, 2010)

HAHA.. i actually stopped my work to read through this thread. WOW. :violin:I think this thread is done. LOL.


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## c.cloudwalker (May 13, 2010)

Bitter, I wish you had not done that edit. I spewed my drink all over the computer. :lmao:

Does it help the photography? is the question. Can't wait till I'm soon too darn busy to spend much time here.


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## Derrel (May 13, 2010)

c.cloudwalker said:


> Wow, Derrel is feeling generous today. The good feeling you are getting from this is unfortunately not going to help you much in the long run.
> 
> Considering your reaction to the last time I tried to help you, I had no intention to even look at this thread but, I'm only human, and after 60 posts I just had to take a look. Sure was a popcorn thread.
> 
> ...



Score 50 points on the dick-o-meter.


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## tsaraleksi (May 13, 2010)

Gigi I know you asked for questions/comments on your blog: 

What is the motivation behind your editing? Are you thinking about how you can edit an image to highlight and flatter the subject of the image? It seems that in all too many of those photographs the editing is done for editing's sake. This is particularly true in the case of the selective coloring. While I'm not going to condemn selective coloring categorically, to me, coloring arbitrary items in the image distracts the viewer from the people who should be the subject of the image. 

Obviously you are free to do what you like with photography. But from where I stand, you'd be well-off taking a complete break from editing. Focus on making images for a while, because I think you're distracting yourself from the actual photography. This is not something that you can just pick up overnight, it takes a long time to develop. I've been photographing seriously for eight years now and I'm still nowhere close to saying "ok, now I've got it."


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## vtf (May 13, 2010)

gigiphotography said:


> He said somethings in a nice way to help me out! DO YOU HAVE TO BE MEAN TO GIVE CC? I think not!!! There were plenty of people that weren't getting smart with me when they were helping me and that's the way it should be done. I don't intend on sticking around here long. I will go to a pro and get lessons not talk to people I don't even know nor have I seen their work. Now I am a good christian mom and I'm off to cook dinner for my family. I've had enough of this. If you all want to waste your time continuing talking about my picture go ahead.


Shes had enough, please lock thread for our sake.


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## frogsay (May 13, 2010)

.


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## frogsay (May 13, 2010)

You can't tell me that post didn't actually IMPROVE this trainwreck of a thread.

Also, to the OP, sell your camera then kill yourself.


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## gigiphotography (May 13, 2010)

frogsay said:


> You can't tell me that post didn't actually IMPROVE this trainwreck of a thread.
> 
> Also, to the OP, sell your camera then kill yourself.




Don't guess you've watched the news lately...I could call the police on you!!!  WHOEVER YOU SAY YOU ARE!  WELCOME TO THE FORUM SINCE YOU JUST SO HAPPENED TO JOIN TODAY!!!


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## frogsay (May 13, 2010)

gigiphotography said:


> frogsay said:
> 
> 
> > You can't tell me that post didn't actually IMPROVE this trainwreck of a thread.
> ...



Sure hope you paid for that copy of Photoshop.


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## Fedaykin (May 13, 2010)

*sigh* I cannot understand why some people post their pictures here expecting *everyone* to be all nice and helpful and not say anything bad about their pictures. It's C&C people, even if it's blunt and in your face it's still 100 times better than no C&C or someone just being nice and not actually critiquing your pictures and actually _helping_ you. 

I've been here for less than a month I think and I've seen like five threads end up like this. 

*TL: DR* You want people to be nice, go post on Flickr and facebook. You want actual C&C, post here.

Mis dos centavos.


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## gigiphotography (May 13, 2010)

frogsay said:


> gigiphotography said:
> 
> 
> > frogsay said:
> ...



Really?  Who doesn't pay for it?


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## frogsay (May 13, 2010)

gigiphotography said:


> frogsay said:
> 
> 
> > gigiphotography said:
> ...



One might also ask who oversaturates their pictures so much that at least one channel is blown in every shot.  Sometimes all three channels!

Your portfolio is unironically worse than genocide.


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## reznap (May 13, 2010)

Why is this still going on... what's the point?

It's not even entertaining to read anymore, it's gone too far.  Enough already..


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## Geaux (May 13, 2010)




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## c.cloudwalker (May 13, 2010)

gigiphotography said:


> Really?  Who doesn't pay for it?



Dang girl, you are so wound up with this thread you can't even tell a troll...

See that little square box way under your name? It's got a red border and an exclamation mark in it, it's for jerks like this one. You click it so he can be removed


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## reznap (May 13, 2010)

erose86 said:


> <snip>
> 
> I'm a good Christian girl...



HAHA apparently you're not the only one.


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## Ryan L (May 13, 2010)

Bitter,

 You are to TPF, what Simon Cowell is to American Idol! lol


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## er111a (May 13, 2010)

this is a long post lol


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## reznap (May 13, 2010)

er111a said:


> this is a long post lol



These drama threads are the most popular every time.  You'll never see a normal critique thread or anything get so many replies.


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## gigiphotography (May 13, 2010)

c.cloudwalker said:


> gigiphotography said:
> 
> 
> > Really?  Who doesn't pay for it?
> ...



Thanks!  I just want to be out of this post.  If I did not thank you the other day I am sorry for that.  I appreciate you looking into glitz.


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## Geaux (May 13, 2010)

erose86 said:


> Who the hell is Ellen?!  She can't carry a tune for the LIFE of her... but she makes everyone feel good... :lmao:




By that explanation ... you can be our Ellen (of course, with a husband, so not EXACTLY like her lol)

:taped sh:


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## mrpink (May 13, 2010)

just didn't want to be left out of this thread.






p!nK


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## Ryan L (May 13, 2010)

erose86 said:


> Geaux said:
> 
> 
> > erose86 said:
> ...


 lol, I have seen her get a little more into people than Paula ever did though. You have to admit she does have a better sense of humor than Paula and she never said anything bad about anyone!


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## c.cloudwalker (May 13, 2010)

Ryan L said:


> ...she never said anything bad about anyone!



Thanks a bunch.

We are now back to the very start of this thread where some were trying to explain that saying something bad can be good when it is necessary. :lmao:


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## Scatterbrained (May 13, 2010)

I like pancakes. Waffles too.


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## frogsay (May 13, 2010)

.


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## Scatterbrained (May 13, 2010)

frogsay said:


> Could we pull our cocks out of each others' mouths for just long enough to ban the guy who posted Hitler two hundred times, maybe?


hmmm? mm mmmmmm mmm hmmmm mmhmhmmmhhmm.


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## Ryan L (May 13, 2010)

frogsay said:


> Could we pull our cocks out of each others' mouths for just long enough to ban the guy who posted Hitler two hundred times, maybe?


 
lol, as I am eating a banana as a bedtime snack!  nice... 

I was a little baffled by the Hitler post as well, maybe he was playing Wolfenstein 3D on his 486sx computer? I dunno, I didn't quite catch on to it either.


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## ghpham (May 13, 2010)

digital camera's creates the worse kind of "photographers"


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## Ryan L (May 13, 2010)

Whew! Glad I used to have a Canon AE-1p in high school!


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## gigiphotography (May 13, 2010)

Well it's almost midnight but I figured out how to do what I asked today in the first place.  Hope you all have enjoyed it.  Certainly taught me a lot!!!


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## AlexColeman (May 13, 2010)

Oh, what a surprise, you finally figured out how to do something by yourself. The side I am taking is pretty obvious, Bitter is totally right.


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## Fedaykin (May 13, 2010)

erose86 said:


> I like COLDSTONE ICE CREAM!!!!!!!!



I knew I liked you for a reason. *high five*


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## aliciaqw (May 13, 2010)

I wanted to join this thread, too.  I read the WHOLE thing!  Woot!

Speaking about the blog...how much do you charge for your photo sessions?


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## gigiphotography (May 13, 2010)

$25


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## Photos de l'amour (May 14, 2010)

Where is this blog or website everyone is talking about?  I was curious about it but I can't find anything.


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## Bitter Jeweler (May 14, 2010)

Well, she remove the link to her site in her profile for some reason. If you are resourceful, you can google Gigi photography Arkansas, and you'll find it. Be warned, it's not the Gigi photgraphy In Canada.


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## ghpham (May 14, 2010)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> Well, she remove the link to her site in her profile for some reason. If you are resourceful, you can google Gigi photography Arkansas, and you'll find it. Be warned, it's not the Gigi photgraphy In Canada.


 
LoL....I got to the Gigi Photography in Canada by accident and thought to myself...wtf.....


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## Photos de l'amour (May 14, 2010)

Ok, thanks.  I found it.  Def. not the Gigi in Canada.

I thought the same thing when I found the one in Canada, lol.


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## gigiphotography (May 14, 2010)

If your going to look at my blog please look at all the pictures.  Not just the ones on display.  You have to go to the tabs.  I'm open to cc but no rudeness please.  A little niceness goes along way.


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## Photos de l'amour (May 14, 2010)

Well, I am not really one to give CC since I am pretty new myself...but....I think that certain photo effects should be used but def. in moderation.  It seems you really like the color selector, ALOT.  Kind of gets old when it's on so many photos.  Less is more, I think.  I like the photos that are tilted (not sure the correct term) but there are soooo many of them.

I would say....use the photo techniques and effects sparingly.

I hope all that makes sense, it is getting late.


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## gigiphotography (May 14, 2010)

Thank you for your input!  Yes I know I use color selector a lot.  Just something I'm stuck on.  The tilted thing is a bad habit I've gotten into.


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## FemFugler (May 14, 2010)

I think you def have potential but i think you should go easy on the selective colouring. 

But whatever i think my favourites are the ones of your own kids, which are adorable by the way. 

Sorry i couldn't give more advice, i'm also pretty new myself.


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## ghpham (May 14, 2010)

I agree with Photos de L'amour.  All the tilted photos give my neck a cramp and give me a head ache.

I will say though that you have potential.  In certain photo's, I like your composition, but your bad lighting, and lack of focus killed it for me.  

I would listen to the advice above and study up on lighting.


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## gigiphotography (May 14, 2010)

Thank you for looking at the pictures and the compliments on my kids they def get tired of me taking there pictures.  I have a Nikon D 90 and an instruction book.  I came here to learn more about lighting and everything else there is to learn.  I have no background just practice and truthfully some of my pictures would probably be best just left alone with no editing.  I tend to shake too so I believe that is causing me some issues with the focus.


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## Fedaykin (May 14, 2010)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> Well, she remove the link to her site in her profile for some reason. If you are resourceful, you can google Gigi photography Arkansas, and you'll find it. Be warned, it's not the Gigi photgraphy In Canada.



Whoa, massive dose of excessive vignetting and selective coloring. I feel kinda sick.


In all seriousness Gigi you reaaaally need to take a step back from all the excessive editing and just focus on getting better pictures straight out of the camera.


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## Misfitlimp (May 14, 2010)

Listen here sweetheart, Honestly I remember when I first came to TPF I made a lot of stupid mistakes. Asking dumb lens questions that I could have done quick searches for etc. etc. and guess what I got a lot of smartass remarks. Did I get upset? no. You listen to what the guys like Bitter and Big Mike(who isnt present) say to you because guess what? they have been around for awhile! If you wanna post your pictures here so everyone can tell you your awesome! It aint gonna happen sissta! Ive got a little bit of a rude awakening for you cuz Ima be honest your stuff is mediocre at best. There is a difference between being on here to learn and soak up every bit of knowledge you can and just coming on here to get applause and someone to edit your images. Im a student and I appreciate these guys on here how ever harsh they might be. 
On that note. I applaud everyone on here that gives honest c&c on anything Ive posted and that anyone posts because lets be honest why are we even here? We are here to share tips and tricks and information so we as Photogs can progress our art. Not to post images and say "hey, do me a favor and fix this for me. They wont pay me my $25 bucks till I do" which is a completely different conversation.
and please take my comment with a grain of salt


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## gigiphotography (May 14, 2010)

I understand.  I do need to back off some of the editing.


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## FemFugler (May 14, 2010)

Do you have a tripod? That would probably help with the focusing and shaking issue. If not, i would definitely look into investing in one specially if you want to make a business out of photography... 

Also just out of curiousity, do you give parents the edited version or the unedited version? or both? 

Personally i think the edited versions could be fun for a bedroom or something, but for somewhere(or something) formal such as a living room then minimal editing would probably be more sufficient. Creative editing has it's place, just for professional i would tone it down. You could even make some money out of it and charge extra if they want some creative editing that you seem to be into.


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## bigtwinky (May 14, 2010)

reznap said:


> Why is this still going on... what's the point?
> 
> It's not even entertaining to read anymore, it's gone too far. Enough already..


 
Did you report the thread and request a lock?


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## bigtwinky (May 14, 2010)

My boss is back in the office today, so I dont want any excuses not to work.

Besides, I should of called in sick...too many photos to process sitting on my hard drive at home.  If only I could convince IT to install photoshop on my PC here...I'd even take Elements


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## gigiphotography (May 14, 2010)

Yes I requested it locked last night when someone said to sell my camera and then go kill myself...enough is enough.


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## Boomn4x4 (May 14, 2010)

gigiphotography said:


> I came here to learn more about lighting and everything else there is to learn.


 
I havn't read this whole thread.... I picked up the first page, and then these last two... 

If you are here to learn... then you need to do a better job at accepting criticism.... even the harsh and rude criticism.  The God's honest truth, the best criticism you are going to get is the hardest to take.  If you can't take it with a grain of salt and learn from it... you won't learn at all.

The best advice you could have gotten, and to which I agree with 100%, was the first reply you got.

"It would be easier and less time consuming to try and do it right the first time"

The picture you posted, really isn't very good... grossly underexposed.   Exposure is the absolute #1 priority in taking a photograph... if you F up the exposure... everything else is useless.  And the photo you posted has a F'd up exposure.

Get the picture right the first time, and then worry about processing.


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## eric-holmes (May 14, 2010)

Lets shut this down. It is only taking away from all the other threads.


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## KmH (May 14, 2010)

gigiphotography said:


> frogsay said:
> 
> 
> > Sure hope you paid for that copy of Photoshop.
> ...


Adobe has stated 1/3 of Photoshop users have a bootleg copy of the software so there is a 1 in 3 chance anyone's copy of Photoshop is stolen.

Photoshop writes info from your copy of Photoshop to every image you edit with it.


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## bazooka (May 14, 2010)

Can't.... stop.... reading.....


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## photosoto (May 14, 2010)

Gigi, I just read the entire post.  Please, please don't let anything discourage you from continuing photography.  While some of these guys are giving you constructive criticism there is no doubt some egos... and just as bad people replying with pointless, unconstructive, rude posts.  Btw, I'm a Christian myself


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## gigiphotography (May 14, 2010)

Thank you!  Then you know as well as I do that there is a nice way to put things even if it's something you don't want to hear.  These people have seen very little of my work and they want to judge me on things I've asked help on.  I'm new to photography that's why I'm here.  I do have a different creative take on some of my photography and my customers do love it.  So I'm not worried about what they say anymore.  I'm booked all next week.  But thank you for letting me know that there are other good christian people on here.


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## Bitter Jeweler (May 14, 2010)

Woohoo! It's a christian coalition!


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## photosoto (May 14, 2010)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> Woohoo! It's a christian coalition!



...yeah, that is what I'm talking about.  I'm sure you got some great advice on photography but that comment was unnecessary.  In fact I would like some critique from you on my photos if you'd like.


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## Bitter Jeweler (May 14, 2010)

I find the "good christian" comments are rather backhanded remarks that do not belong here. Rather high and mighty.

GiGi, you have a long way to go. Bringing up again, how many clients you have, means nothing.


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## tsaraleksi (May 14, 2010)

To me, charging people fairly significant sums of money for beginner work is a question of ethics. Working with the knowledge that the work is significantly sub-par, even if the client doesn't know it, is flat out unethical. 

Which to me makes the whole push to identify religiously a bit ironic.


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## photosoto (May 14, 2010)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> I find the "good christian" comments rather backhanded remarks that do not belong here.
> 
> GiGi, you have a long way to go. Bringing up again, how many clients you have, means nothing.



I understand where you are coming from although I don't think she meant it that way.  I certainly did not.


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## gigiphotography (May 14, 2010)

How do you know how much I charge!  Let me just tell you!  I charge a $25 sitting fee and $25 for an edited disc that they can go and copy as many times as they want to.  Now I don't think that is charging too much.  If you don't like the few pics I've posted on here so be it but that doesn't mean you have seen everyone of my pictures.  Even if you have been to my blog you haven't seen them all.  So you are way out of line with your comment.  This post will be closed shortly!  Way over do!


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## gigiphotography (May 14, 2010)

There are all kind of back handed remarks that don't belong here!!!


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## tsaraleksi (May 14, 2010)

1) You put your prices on your blog. 
2) Put your best work out front, because you WILL have your whole body of work judged by what you chose to display.

And lying is a sin.


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## photosoto (May 14, 2010)

tsaraleksi said:


> To me, charging people fairly significant sums of money for beginner work is a question of ethics. Working with the knowledge that the work is significantly sub-par, even if the client doesn't know it, is flat out unethical.
> 
> Which to me makes the whole push to identify religiously a bit ironic.



you know, there is nothing wrong with setting a standard for yourself.  there is certainly merit to that....
but, she is at least on here trying to improve


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## tsaraleksi (May 14, 2010)

Except she's not, really. Every piece of advice is met with combative remarks and boasting about her client base. This thread, for example, expresses no desire to improve at all.


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## gigiphotography (May 14, 2010)

and I just changed my rates.  All my customers go to a different website so I changed my rates there last night.  Oh and if you don't know how to work a blog you click on the different titles and it will show you all my photo shoots not just the ones on display.  That's how a blog works.


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## gigiphotography (May 14, 2010)

No it's not!  I have thanked many people for giving me nice feedback.  I do want to learn but choose not to learn from people who are going to be rude!  That's how I roll!  NOW LEAVE ME ALONE!  I'M AS GOOD AS GONE!  Continue to talk but you will be talking just to hear yourself.


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## vtf (May 14, 2010)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> gigiphotography said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you so much! This is exactly what I was looking for. She is in a pageant and I don't have time or does she have the patience for a reshoot. Sometimes you have to do the best you can with what you have. Especially with a child.
> ...


 The thread shoudl've ended here on page 2, since then its all about who gets "The Last Word in". Nothing truly constructive.


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## mwcfarms (May 14, 2010)

gigiphotography said:


> No it's not! I have thanked many people for giving me nice feedback. I do want to learn but choose not to learn from people who are going to be rude! That's how I roll! NOW LEAVE ME ALONE! I'M AS GOOD AS GONE! Continue to talk but you will be talking just to hear yourself.


 
Gigi, can I ask a question without you getting all defensive. What happens if some of these people who are rude are RIGHT? Their delivery might be careless but generally the advice is correct. Can you not seperate the tone from the message? That seems to be the issue.


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## Sw1tchFX (May 14, 2010)

This is unbelievable. Been following this, but have refrained from posting because well.. w/e I had this other really long book written out for this, but deleted it. I just lost track of what I was talking about. 

Bottom line, this is an _amateur_ forum, and should be considered as such. There's alot of people who have seen the same stuff over and over again on here (and other forums), and after a while it just grinds the wrong way and people snap.

I think that's what happened here.

There's a few people on here, who like Derrel said in his (great) post, we learned when Photoshop didn't exist yet, so you had to get it right the first time. Photography used to be part engineering. We have single 8x10 transparencies at the studio which were shot on 5 different cameras on 5 different sets, and are jaw-dropping to think that this is straight out of camera and shot in 1985. Digital looks cheap in comparison. 

It's the difference between "shooting for the edit" and "shooting for the print". 

there's alot of coulda-shoulda-woulda in this thread, and i admit, when i said "try to get it right the first time", it was probably of little or no help. If i was in those shoes with that experience, it would have gotten me nowhere because i wouldn't know what to look for. Just look at my first posts 4 years ago, they're laughable, and even the new ones are. 

the thing is when you start posting images up anywhere on or offline, there are going to be people who disagree with them, and that's part of sharing your pictures, enjoying the praise and eating the crits. 

There has been some good advice on here, it may come off as cynical, but there really has. The more you work on your technique and the more you look at pictures (not just your own), the more you'll be able to see what's good, what's bad, and what's ugly.

And when you start charging for what you're doing, yeah different strokes-different folks, but $25 clients give $25 results. 

Ask yourself some questions, if you hired a photographer to take pictures of your kid and they charged $25, what would you expect? If they charged $400 what would you expect? $850?

what sort of bracket do you want your images to reflect?


If commercial photography was easy, everyone would be doing it.

Look at the pictures you like, analyze them. Copy them. try to do the same thing. You'll learn alot. 


Learning photography is like learning to drive. When you first start out, you'll stall the engine, your parents will be yelling at you to shift, and it's overwhelming at first. But after a while you stop even thinking about shifting and you just do it. it comes naturally. And the only way to getting around to that is experience. 

With forums, It's one thing to talk about driving a car and talking about shifting the gears, but it's completely different to actually doing it. 

No matter where you go, you'll always find assholes that give tough criticism, but it says alot about your character with how you take it, do you get discouraged and quit? or do you eat it and digest what they mean and move on?


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## frogsay (May 14, 2010)

tsaraleksi said:


> Except she's not, really. Every piece of advice is met with combative remarks and boasting about her client base. This thread, for example, expresses no desire to improve at all.



Alex, we need to talk.  It's about your posting.


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## Arch (May 14, 2010)

Wow i go away for 4 days and the kids come out to play... this thread is all types of wrong.

Derrel and Switch seem the only ones to bring some normality to it... we do not allow witch hunting or insulting other members needlessly on this forum.


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