# does the word "refurbished" mean "crap"



## agnatha (Jul 18, 2012)

so, alright, as i've said before, i think that a blind monkey could take better pictures with it's butt than i can. those are just the facts. but, i have so much pent up cool looking stuff at the animal rescue that i work at, you know alligators and deer and owls, fun stuff, and i really wanna capture it. 
now, i'm not saying i've NEVER taken a good picture. but i wanna be professional. 
i've got THE worst camera in the world right now. it doesn't let you do anything manually. no fstop. no shutter speed. the nikon makes all your choices for you. and it sucks at doing so. 
so i wanna buy a nice one, and i saw a fuji av130 on amazon, and it's concerningly cheap bc it's "REFURBISHED" (dun dun dun)
that means "broken and fixed again"? it's twelve mp and it has fivex zoom, and most importantly, it'll let ME decide what i wanna do with the light, which is what i need. 
the question is, am i going to get screwed. i have never bought anything refurbished except my phone and it just didn't work out good at all (as it sits at the bottom of my pool). so what do i do?
does anybody have any other suggestions on a nice digital camera that isn't all automatic. 
i want the nissan skyline of cameras, nothing automatic. as many opportunities to mess stuff up and learn in the process. 
can you very nice people help me out here?


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## 480sparky (Jul 18, 2012)

New In Box = maybe the factory checked it, maybe they didn't.... who knows.... it's the luck of the draw.

Refurbished = it WAS checked by the factory.


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## bhop (Jul 18, 2012)

It's the opposite IMO, for the reasons 480sparky mentioned.  I'd probably choose refurbished over new if I had the option and the warranty was the same because I know it's been checked over... plus it'd be cheaper.


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## agnatha (Jul 18, 2012)

ok. ok, that makes me feel better. what do you think of the camera though. for just a beginner. is it good to learn on?


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## unpopular (Jul 18, 2012)

just be aware of "merchant" or "seller" refurbished. This means that the seller took an alcohol swab to clean it up a bit and put it back into the box.


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## bhop (Jul 18, 2012)

unpopular said:


> just be aware of "merchant" or "seller" refurbished. This means that the seller took an alcohol swab to clean it up a bit and put it back into the box.



Good point.


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## IByte (Jul 18, 2012)

agnatha said:
			
		

> so, alright, as i've said before, i think that a blind monkey could take better pictures with it's butt than i can. those are just the facts. but, i have so much pent up cool looking stuff at the animal rescue that i work at, you know alligators and deer and owls, fun stuff, and i really wanna capture it.
> now, i'm not saying i've NEVER taken a good picture. but i wanna be professional.
> i've got THE worst camera in the world right now. it doesn't let you do anything manually. no fstop. no shutter speed. the nikon makes all your choices for you. and it sucks at doing so.
> so i wanna buy a nice one, and i saw a fuji av130 on amazon, and it's concerningly cheap bc it's "REFURBISHED" (dun dun dun)
> ...



Hmmm no most reputable places like B&H Adorama are Keh are great places to look.  Refurbish has a bad stigma even with better standards.  If you know what you're looking for, good sources, and common sense less likely you will end up with a lemon.


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## unpopular (Jul 18, 2012)

I'd only get refurbished gear from a verified, authorized retailer, otherwise you may end up paying for a factory refurbished product that is actually merchant refurbished. Merchant refurbished isn't necessarily a bad thing, no worse than a used item, but it's good to know what you're getting.

Don't factory refurbished products usually come with a warranty from the manufacturer?


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## slackercruster (Jul 18, 2012)

I would rather buy Amazon open box returns. But refurb may be OK? Just a gamble.


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## Sw1tchFX (Jul 18, 2012)

That is a terrible camera, i'd rather shoot with my cell phone. If you want something better than a cell phone, you need to get an SLR. 

$77, great camera, great lens, send the film off to Richard Photo Lab and it will look amazing: Nikon Autofocus N8008 WITH 35-135 F3.5-4.5 MACRO (62) 35MM SLR AUTO FOCUS CAMERA OUTFIT - KEH.com


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## agnatha (Jul 18, 2012)

see now that's what i needed was a link. that helps. that really helps. bc i'm basically not capable of deciding myself. my lack of knowledge would be laughable to you, so it's likely that whatever somebody with better pictures says is good is what i'm going to do. okay, i'm going to just get it then. i mean, why the hell not?
(i hope this isn't the part where somebody else says that this other one is better, and now i'm all confused. i'll wait though, just in case)


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## JaneAndCharlotte (Jul 18, 2012)

Great question. I would have never known that refurbished could actually be a better deal since it means it has actually been factory checked! Thanks. :3


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## usayit (Jul 18, 2012)

All of the items I have purchased refurbished are direct from the manufacturer.  Never had a problem.

"refurb" is like "used" YMMV depending on where you are purchasing from...   don't generalize.


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## coastalconn (Jul 18, 2012)

If you are looking at a refurbished Nikon Dslr, Cameta Camera in Long Island is the place to buy from as they have the 90 day Nikon warranty plus include an extra 9 month warranty, so a year total on all Nikon Refurb cameras.  Also free shipping and no tax outside of NY.  D3100 for example  Nikon D3100 Digital SLR Camera & 18-55mm G VR DX AF-S Zoom Lens - Factory Demo includes Full 1 Year Warranty  I have purchased 2 refurb bodies from them and have had a terrific experience


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## brandolsx (Jul 18, 2012)

IMO Fuji is a terrible brand to go with. I bought a waterproof Fuji, because it was cheap, for a cruise I was going on. I got it home and couldn't take a clear photo of anything anywhere. I couldn't believe it. I took that camera back the next day and picked up a Nikon AW100 which was $200 more but worth it. Refurbished means that the camera broke at one point. The company took it back, fixed that part and is now going to sell it.  Usually still has a warranty with it because it is "basically" new, but make sure it's someone reputable trying to sell this camera and not some person off the street. Hope that helps.


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## Big Mike (Jul 19, 2012)

> Refurbished means that the camera broke at one point. The company took it back, fixed that part and is now going to sell it. Usually still has a warranty with it because it is "basically" new, but make sure it's someone reputable trying to sell this camera and not some person off the street. Hope that helps.


Doesn't necessarily mean that it broke...it could have just failed an inspection at some point on the assembly line.  For example, imagine that as the cameras are being assembled, a little screw didn't go in all the way (for whatever reason).  If they catch it, they pull it off the assembly line and fix it...but I believe that many places have laws/rules that say the product can't be put back into the assembly line and sold as 'new'...so it has to be sold as 'refurbished'.  
Of course, that's a best case scenario, it is also possible that someone bought the camera, broke it and then returned it.  But even then, if it's factory refurbished, it will be fully inspected before it's sold...which you can't say about every 'off the shelf' product.


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## SoCalTiger (Jul 19, 2012)

Some companies also get rid of overstock by calling it refurbished. So it is literally brand new.


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## Dao (Jul 19, 2012)

My 7D is a refurbished camera directly from Canon.  It has about 1600 clicks and  looked  new when I received it.  It come with 90 days warranty from Canon.  If you get the Canon refurbished camera from Adorama, from what I read, they warranty it for 1 year.  And someone from another forum mentioned they gave him/her money back when the camera had problem and they did not have one to replace with (maybe out of 90 days Canon warranty but still under their warranty).

Also, someone from another forum mentioned that his/her refurbished Canon had less than 30 clicks when received.  And that, I consider it is a new camera.

I do not have problem buying manufacturer refurbished product.


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## enzodm (Jul 19, 2012)

agnatha said:


> so i wanna buy a nice one, and i saw a fuji av130 on amazon, and it's concerningly cheap bc it's "REFURBISHED" (dun dun dun)
> that means "broken and fixed again"? it's twelve mp and it has fivex zoom, and most importantly, it'll let ME decide what i wanna do with the light, which is what i need.



From specs:


Program AE:Yes Aperture Priority:No Shutter Priority:No Full Manual Exposure:No 

(and exposure should be on just two steps).


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## CMfromIL (Jul 19, 2012)

I buy refurbished electronics if it's the same item I was already looking for.  They are usually about 50% of full retail price, carry the same mfg warrenty, and have all the supplies as a new unit.  Usually come in a brown box instead of the fancy new box.

BTW, these are factory refurbs, not a retailer refurb.  I'd stay away from those.


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## Ftn (Jul 19, 2012)

brandolsx said:


> ... Refurbished means that the camera broke at one point. The company took it back, fixed that part and is now going to sell it.  Usually still has a warranty with it because it is "basically" new, but make sure it's someone reputable trying to sell this camera and not some person off the street. Hope that helps.



As a former Refurb Engineer, I have to say that the "broke at some point" part of your opinion is only true about 10% of the time. The vast majority of cameras that came through my department were trade show demos, with a healthy percentage of trade-ins (trade-ups usually). 

That's not saying that things did not come in broken, were repaired and then re-sold, or that we did not buy back something that one of our Service Centers could not, or would not fix (would not fix is something that is determined by the Sales department, usually a Trade-Up was the cause). 

With a network of local service centers across the country, even the most experienced service engineers got stumped occasionally, whereas my refurb techs could diagnose and repair just about any problem. One thing too, if a camera did not meet each and every one of the specs it had when new, it was repaired or destroyed.

 Cosmetics played a big part in the pricing structure, we used a grading system, where new was A-Class, used, demoed, repaired were considered B-Class. Very rarely a product was needed so badly by a customer that they would accept (in writing) a slightly out-of-spec or cosmetically challenged piece, these we called C-Stock. D was reserved for incoming inventory that had to be checked and refurbished, E meant that it was missing! So a good line to use when buying refurbished stuff is to ask if it's C-Stock or not.


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## KmH (Jul 19, 2012)

The major source of what becomes a 'refurbished' unit, is returns

Most cameras that are returned are returned because of buyer's remorse, and/or non-existent 'defects' that are actually user errors.
The average entry-level DSLR buyer spends little time reading the owner's manual.

Only very minor repairs that can be done quickly are performed on cameras returned that actually have a defect. The profit margins are so low the camera maker can't afford the labor cost to do more extensive repairs.


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## sovietdoc (Jul 19, 2012)

If I was buying a 70-200 II and it said "refurbished" I would still buy it
If I was buying a 24-70 f/2.8L and it said "refurbished" I wouldn't.


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## Dao (Jul 19, 2012)

sovietdoc said:


> If I was buying a 70-200 II and it said "refurbished" I would still buy it
> If I was buying a 24-70 f/2.8L and it said "refurbished" I wouldn't.




Would you tell us why?


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## sovietdoc (Jul 19, 2012)

Dao said:


> sovietdoc said:
> 
> 
> > If I was buying a 70-200 II and it said "refurbished" I would still buy it
> ...



Some lenses there are a lot of "bad copies" of.

Granted, even if you buy new it doesn't guarantee it won't be a bad copy, but a lot of times refurbished things are what someone sent back for a reason.

Personally, I've made about 4 or 5 purchases that were "refurbished" and only 1 of them was good.  Especially if I am paying a lot of money, like for an L lens for example, I might as well just get it brand new.  I understand that the decision may not be as easy when the price is very attractive, but still.


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## HikinMike (Jul 20, 2012)

Ftn said:


> As a former Refurb Engineer, I have to say that the "broke at some point" part of your opinion is only true about 10% of the time. The vast majority of cameras that came through my department were trade show demos, with a healthy percentage of trade-ins (trade-ups usually).
> 
> That's not saying that things did not come in broken, were repaired and then re-sold, or that we did not buy back something that one of our Service Centers could not, or would not fix (would not fix is something that is determined by the Sales department, usually a Trade-Up was the cause).
> 
> ...



I agree. I used to work for an company that made metal detectors and I was one of the electronic techs. Most of our 'refurbished' stuff was trade show demos or dealer demos.


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## jjwarrenphotography (Jul 21, 2012)

As long as the deal is good there is bother wrong with getting refurb. My only issue is when the price is so close to new that it is not worth it!


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## manaheim (Jul 22, 2012)

I bought a refurbished piece of non-camera equipment once and it was unusable and so non-functional that a 2 year old would have realized it in about 30 seconds.  It was refurbished by the manufacturer (Hewlett Packard, mind you)  and guaranteed to be perfect and like new.  I've been leery of refurbished since.


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## Mach0 (Jul 22, 2012)

There's bad copies out both new and refurb. I got my d90 refurbished and as it turned out, it was immaculate with only 200 clicks.


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## Theninjaseal (Jul 22, 2012)

I'd suggest not to go with a SLR.  You have to handle the film and get it developed and then scan it - aand then you get your pictures.  For learning, I'd go with a Olympus Pen-series or a Lumix G-series.  And that's what I did, and I love it.  But IMO SLRs are hard to learn on.


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## deeky (Jul 23, 2012)

Theninjaseal said:


> I'd suggest not to go with a SLR.  You have to handle the film and get it developed and then scan it - aand then you get your pictures.  For learning, I'd go with a Olympus Pen-series or a Lumix G-series.  And that's what I did, and I love it.  But IMO SLRs are hard to learn on.



I would actually disagree.  I started with a Pentax K1000.  The only difficulty is in the delay of feedback because you need to have it developed and printed to see what you did.  Beyond that, I think I actually learned more shooting with that camera.  First, everything was manual, so I had to understand all of the factors (ISO, shutter speed, apurture, etc.).  I also found I was much better at taking my time and working on the shot rather than just click, click, click.  To be really proactive, take notes on the settings when you shoot and refer back to them when you get the prints.

Digital certainly is great, but if you can't afford it, don't let an SLR keep you from taking up photography.  Get something where you have control over apurture, shutter speed, etc., and start learning.


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