# DO PEOPLE GET OFF ON THIS?!?



## AmberAtLoveAndInk (Jun 19, 2014)

I have had this one woman now, THREE TIMES, set a shoot, last minute "reschedule" and then last minute completely bail the day before the deposit is due (I require deposits to be paid 2 weeks before a portrait session, but they can pay at any time understanding that if someone else wants that date and pays immediately, it's a "you snooze, you lose" situation) This last time she wanted engagement pics and then decided yesterday (exactly the day before the deposit is due) that she isn't sure who she is hiring for her wedding photographer and that many of the ones she's talked to include an engagement session. I politely mention I am now also offering weddings if she would like me to send over a PDF of packages to view. She acts completely elated and wants it sent to her asap. I do so, she says she would like to hire me, I send her a link to pay for a wedding deposit, and she is now MIA again. 

Also had my next door neighbor offer up her teenage daughter me to use for an hour of senior model shooting one weekend (it would be FREE, just a few shots to get my senior portfolio stronger and she could have some nice pics of her daughter) and the day before we're both outside getting the mail and I ask "She still up for tomorrow?" and the neighbor answers yes, that I should come by at 1. 
I show up (well, I walked 5ft to the right of my house lol) and knocked for about 10min. No answer. TV blaring in the background, both cars on the driveway. WTF. So I wait another hour, come back over, knock again. This time I hear the TV volume go up, again, WTF. I leave, and since then she won't even look towards my house and if we are in the front yard at the same time she runs off, no explanation, no "sorry my daughter was sick" excuse, nothing. Just straight bailed on me after she had told me 12 hours prior we were good to go. 

This last one really pissed me off: 

Old friend from high school (hadn't seen her in 5 years) now has 2 kids and wants family pics, she's not well off and I don't mind helping someone out. I offer her a half off session and a free 8x10 print. She is pregnant with her third and wanted to a gender announcement with the kids, she tells me that she wanted to do balloons coming out of a neutrally decorated box. I told her,"Ya, that's adorable!" she replies, "Great, let me know when the box is finished and how much it was for the stuff and I'll pay it at the shoot."  
Ummm... ok. 
Against better judgment I pick up a cheap crate and embellished it by hand and glue-gun with some cream ribbons and odds and ends. I take a pic of the box and text it her, asking if that's what she wanted. She was very pleased. Now what I didn't mention above is that she lives 3 hours away, my mom lives 10min from her so I was going to town strictly to visit my mom and do her portraits, depending on her $ for my gas tank, not much profit to be made. 
I follow up AGAIN, the day before I go to drive down there, she again says shes ready to go. I drive there (about 2 hours before the session) and she texts me saying she may be running late since she is getting her son's haircut for the pics, I say ok no problem, she then replies 1 hour later, "Oh my God! That hair place was such a rip-off! I can't believe I just spent $XX on his hair!" I say "Ya, nothing is the way it use to be! I'll see you soon?" her reply "Hey, I hate to ask, but is there anyway you can drop your price down lower? That hair place really screwed me." I told her I was sorry but that I already wasn't making anything as it is with her custom prop and 50% off I already gave her. She says ok. 

I'm not kidding, 15 MINUTES BEFORE THE SHOOT, I'm setting up at the park we decided to use and she texts me, not calls, "OH MY GOD, I'M HEADED TO THE ER AMBER! CAN'T MAKE IT! MY SON IS TERRIBLY SICK!" So I'm left with no $, a custom prop that is useless, and an earful from my husband because I racked up $120 on gas & misc stuff on my pointless 3 hour trip. 


So my question is, DO PEOPLE JUST GET OFF ON THIS SH**?! Why in the hell are people like this! I could never do that to someone! I would be beyond embarrassed. 
Is there some kind of medical term for this lol??
Any one else have some awesome "My Grandma Died" stories from clients?


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## 480sparky (Jun 19, 2014)

Welcome to the wonderful world of entrepreneurship.  What you're experiencing is a direct result of the commoditization of the craft.


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## D7K (Jun 19, 2014)

I don't think it's a fetish just maybe seriously bad luck or dealing with people who will not say No to your face?..


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## AmberAtLoveAndInk (Jun 19, 2014)

480sparky said:


> Welcome to the wonderful world of entrepreneurship.  What you're experiencing is a direct result of the commoditization of the craft.



Like I mentioned above, I just couldn't do that! I feel bad when I have to reschedule a doctors appointment for pete's sake! I understand life throws things at you but it seems to me that these people just didn't have the money for it and knew so in the very beginning, but still went along with it all. Just. Don't. Get. It. 
My neighbor... no idea. Guessing her daughter didn't want to and instead of just saying so, she would much ratherr ignore my existence for the next how many years we will be living next door to each other for lmao.


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## tirediron (Jun 19, 2014)

And now you know why photographers drink.


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## Vince.1551 (Jun 19, 2014)

I suggest next time no deposit no confirmation. It will save you lots of fruitless efforts.


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## nycphotography (Jun 19, 2014)

tirediron said:


> And now you know why photographers drink.



And why the rain makers are paid 3x what everyone else is.

Getting the $$$ to clink into the piggy bank is (just about) the only difference between a hobby and a business.


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## robbins.photo (Jun 19, 2014)

AmberAtLoveAndInk said:


> I have had this one woman now, THREE TIMES, set a shoot, last minute "reschedule" and then last minute completely bail the day before the deposit is due (I require deposits to be paid 2 weeks before a portrait session, but they can pay at any time understanding that if someone else wants that date and pays immediately, it's a "you snooze, you lose" situation) This last time she wanted engagement pics and then decided yesterday (exactly the day before the deposit is due) that she isn't sure who she is hiring for her wedding photographer and that many of the ones she's talked to include an engagement session. I politely mention I am now also offering weddings if she would like me to send over a PDF of packages to view. She acts completely elated and wants it sent to her asap. I do so, she says she would like to hire me, I send her a link to pay for a wedding deposit, and she is now MIA again.
> 
> Also had my next door neighbor offer up her teenage daughter me to use for an hour of senior model shooting one weekend (it would be FREE, just a few shots to get my senior portfolio stronger and she could have some nice pics of her daughter) and the day before we're both outside getting the mail and I ask "She still up for tomorrow?" and the neighbor answers yes, that I should come by at 1.
> I show up (well, I walked 5ft to the right of my house lol) and knocked for about 10min. No answer. TV blaring in the background, both cars on the driveway. WTF. So I wait another hour, come back over, knock again. This time I hear the TV volume go up, again, WTF. I leave, and since then she won't even look towards my house and if we are in the front yard at the same time she runs off, no explanation, no "sorry my daughter was sick" excuse, nothing. Just straight bailed on me after she had told me 12 hours prior we were good to go.
> ...



I work in the Risk Assesment department for a popular internet website, we also handle credit card chargebacks in my department.  I hear about 1000+ sob stories a day as to why people don't want to fulfill their financial obligations, and worse yet these are all after they've gotten the product.

So yup.. tons of war stories there.  Granted normally all of this is handled via email by CS agents, but on occasion when they can't handle it and it needs to get escalated, well it generally lands in my lap eventually.  So I don't do a lot of these, only the really really fun ones.  A few personal favorites:

The lady who spent two and a half hours lecturing me about how she shouldn't have to pay because she was Native American, and European Settlers treated Native American's terribly back in the day.  Even after two and a half hours I still have no idea how that applies to the notion that she shouldn't be responsible for paying charges that she agreed to pay before she got what she wanted.

The guy who explained to me that he was a police officer and that if I didn't refund his money he'd have me arrested.  He was a little hazy on exactly what the charges would be, or how it is that he might even have the legal authority to do something like that since I was about 500 miles outside his jurisdiction in a completely different state.  It also didn't seem to faze him at all that the law in all respects was entirely on our side and that at best this would be considered a civil matter, not criminal.  But boy did he really love flashing his "I'm a cop" badge.. lol.  We went round and round for a while, and finally I just said, ok, so officer let me ask you a question - if you went into a 7-11 and grabbed yourself a huge fountain drink and about 30 bucks worth of snacks, walked up to the counter and flashed the guy your badge and told him you were a police officer and as such you shouldn't have to pay for anything, then left - how long do you think it would take before IAD came knocking at your door?  Now, that having been said, can you please explain to me the fundamental difference between that and the claim you are currently making with us?"

The lady who spent 20 minutes screaming at me - and I do mean screaming, about how she wasn't going to pay this because she didn't order it, her husband did.  So I asked her, are the two of you divorced or seperated, and was screamed at again for another 15 minutes and told that was non of my darned business.  Darned not being the actual phrase used of course.  I explained to her that it actually was my business, I mean if they were divorced or seperated and he wasn't supposed to be using her debit card then that would make a difference in this situation.  So she says oh yes, were seperated.  We don't live together anymore - blah blah blah.. well I'm asking her for some more details so I can pull up the account and see what all was charged, and I hear a male voice in the background and she hands the phone.. lol.. to her husband.  Apparently he's decided we are not handling this in a expeditious enough manner and is going to give me an earful about how incompetent I am and why haven't I gotten them their refund already.  So first thing I ask is for him to verify the last 4 on the card, and ask if the card is in both he and his wife's name.  Yup, they really kind of shot themselves in the foot there.

Yup, suffice to say people crack me up.  A quick couple of thoughts, on the dissapearing client, if she contacts you back tell her you'll be happy to help her with anything she wants/needs but you won't be reserving any time on your calendar, the day will be open for anyone else to book, and that you will not discuss any details with her until a deposit is made.  Explain to her that since you've already spent a lot of time on her behalf and made zero money, that at this stage you'll simply have to assume she is not serious until some money changes hands.  You can put some frills and window dressing on it of course, but more or less just let her know you won't lift a finger for her at this point until you see some green.

Next door neighbor - eh, well not worth making a federal case over but not a situation you should  put yourself in again.  They've proven to be untrustworthy, so next time she offers her daughter for a shoot, etc - well, sorry but not interested unless you'd like to book something.  Ship has sailed I'm afraid.

Old friend.. eh.  If she wants to rebook, fine.  Ask for a deposit big enough to cover all the expenses  you incurred last time and all the expenses you will incur this time plus a little extra for your time and trouble.  No deposit, then sorry, but I'm afraid I can't help you.  One of the reasons I strive so hard to never have business dealings with family/friends.


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## AmberAtLoveAndInk (Jun 19, 2014)

Robbins.photo : I could NOT do your job lol not for one day! I feel like I'm just in the most awkward position. The neighbor, ya screw her. Not like I was ever borrowing sugar from her to begin with. I wasn't really worried about it, just really irritated now that the one nice neighbor I thought I had wont even speak to me anymore out of sheer embarrassment I'm sure. Her husband still chats, he's about 15 years younger than her though and is a bit on the "let me give you a creepy hug" side lol. 
The MIA client, I honestly just want to lose my sh** and tell her to do her business or get off the pot. At this point I feel like she has to know I know what she's doing. I'll take your advice and leave it to her to put down the $ before I waste any time on her. 
The "old friend" after all this she then posts to facebook a month later that she really needs family pics and does anyone know of a good photographer for cheap, LMAO. Needless to say, we're not friends anymore. Especially since (I forgot to post this above) she put up a pic online of her at a campfire with I believe was a beer (yes she's pregnant) about 2 hours after "she had to go to the ER and miss our shoot". Then she de-friended me after I "liked" the pic rotfl!


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## AmberAtLoveAndInk (Jun 19, 2014)

Also, love the "Big Bad Policeman" bit lmao, really?? What an idiot.


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## robbins.photo (Jun 19, 2014)

AmberAtLoveAndInk said:


> Robbins.photo : I could NOT do your job lol not for one day! I feel like I'm just in the most awkward position. The neighbor, ya screw her. Not like I was ever borrowing sugar from her to begin with. I wasn't really worried about it, just really irritated now that the one nice neighbor I thought I had wont even speak to me anymore out of sheer embarrassment I'm sure. Her husband still chats, he's about 15 years younger than her though and is a bit on the "let me give you a creepy hug" side lol.



Lol.. well quick tip on that, they stop giving you creepy hugs the first time you kick them in the nads. It's like a secret code really.. lol As to the job, well the really sick thing is I really like my job. I don't spend much time on the phone I generally only have to deal with maybe a couple of these a month. They only send me the total train wrecks that no one else was succesfull in dealing with, othre than that I deal with spreadsheets and financial transactions and data analsys, etc - so yup. getting on the phone with a complete whack job is actually a nice change of pace at times.



> The MIA client, I honestly just want to lose my sh** and tell her to do her business or get off the pot. At this point I feel like she has to know I know what she's doing. I'll take your advice and leave it to her to put down the $ before I waste any time on her.



Yup.. and you won't hear from her again - lol. Just the way those folks are, but really, win win.. lol



> The "old friend" after all this she then posts to facebook a month later that she really needs family pics and does anyone know of a good photographer for cheap, LMAO. Needless to say, we're not friends anymore. Especially since (I forgot to post this above) she put up a pic online of her at a campfire with I believe was a beer (yes she's pregnant) about 2 hours after "she had to go to the ER and miss our shoot". Then she de-friended me after I "liked" the pic rotfl!



Ok, well.. lets be fair here and give her the benefit of the doubt. Maybe she had stored her beer at the ER?

Lol.. ok, ya, time to walk away from that one I think.


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## vintagesnaps (Jun 19, 2014)

Set limits and guidelines. People will do that kind of thing all the time... the type of non-photography work I've done involved working with families, no-shows got a phone call then a letter then withdrawn if they didn't respond within a specific time frame. You might need to find a balance between being flexible and giving people too much leeway. (And if you're making a prop have it be something you can use again, not just for a one-time free/underpriced session that didn't work out.) 

If you're going to be in business, then _be in business_! stop the freebies/underpricing (unless it's for a charity you choose to support). I don't know that you can ever eliminate all of this type thing but maybe it would help to learn techniques in how to schedule clients, give clear specific guidelines, etc. I think it takes being friendly yet professional and business-like and maybe your age and/or youthful appearance is sometimes not to your advantage - maybe it would help to think about how you portray yourself so people know you are a business owner. 

Maybe a business class/workshop, such as an adult continuing ed. class, would be worth taking. I appreciate that you're a sincerely nice and generous person who likes people and has a personality that people respond to in a positive way - that can be a big part of being a photographer and you seem to have that. Maybe you need to think about what guidelines and procedures you should establish to help you be successful in running your own business.


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## robbins.photo (Jun 19, 2014)

AmberAtLoveAndInk said:


> Also, love the "Big Bad Policeman" bit lmao, really?? What an idiot.



Lol.. best part of that conversation was when he told me that if he needed to he could call the county attorney in my county and have him press charges.  I told him no problem, his name is Robert.  I generally just call him Uncle Bob.  Nice guy, can't grill a hamburger to save his life though.  Thing is Uncle Bob is kind of a stickler for not filing charges until someone can explain to him exactly what law was supposedly broken, so I doubt you'll get very far there - but I'll keep my fingers crossed for you... dead silence on the other end of the line. 

That was pretty much the reason I ended up with the call, whatever agent he was dealing with would try to explain to Captain Fantastic what the rules were on something like this and he'd threaten to have them arrested, so it would go to a supervisor, same thing, after about half a dozen calls they "red flagged" him so the next time he called they transfered him straight on to me.

My other favorite part of that call, "Well let me speak with your supervisor" to which I responded, "I don't have one.  As far as this issue is concerned this is as high up the chain of command as it gets."  So then he pulls the, "give me your CEO's phone number" BS, lol.  Right, Like I've never heard that one before.  I think this guy must have had a lot of success pulling this passive aggressive threat nonsense with other companies.  He just really wasn't expecting someone to actually tell him no and mean it.


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## Designer (Jun 19, 2014)

She has no money.  If she wants to reschedule, get full payment in advance, or no date.


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## CAP (Jun 19, 2014)

I LIKE TO TYPE IN CAPS BECAUSE IT MAKES MY POST TITLE LOOK BETTER !

:hail:


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## table1349 (Jun 19, 2014)

AmberAtLoveAndInk said:


> I have had this one woman now, THREE TIMES, set a shoot, last minute "reschedule" and then last minute completely bail the day before the deposit is due (I require deposits to be paid 2 weeks before a portrait session, but they can pay at any time understanding that if someone else wants that date and pays immediately, it's a "you snooze, you lose" situation) This last time she wanted engagement pics and then decided yesterday (exactly the day before the deposit is due) that she isn't sure who she is hiring for her wedding photographer and that many of the ones she's talked to include an engagement session. I politely mention I am now also offering weddings if she would like me to send over a PDF of packages to view. She acts completely elated and wants it sent to her asap. I do so, she says she would like to hire me, I send her a link to pay for a wedding deposit, and she is now MIA again.
> 
> Also had my next door neighbor offer up her teenage daughter me to use for an hour of senior model shooting one weekend (it would be FREE, just a few shots to get my senior portfolio stronger and she could have some nice pics of her daughter) and the day before we're both outside getting the mail and I ask "She still up for tomorrow?" and the neighbor answers yes, that I should come by at 1.
> I show up (well, I walked 5ft to the right of my house lol) and knocked for about 10min. No answer. TV blaring in the background, both cars on the driveway. WTF. So I wait another hour, come back over, knock again. This time I hear the TV volume go up, again, WTF. I leave, and since then she won't even look towards my house and if we are in the front yard at the same time she runs off, no explanation, no "sorry my daughter was sick" excuse, nothing. Just straight bailed on me after she had told me 12 hours prior we were good to go.
> ...


Apparently you never worked in Retail.  They are called.......................(wait for it)..................................Browsers.


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## AmberAtLoveAndInk (Jun 19, 2014)

> lol As to the job, well the really sick thing is I really like my job.



That is pretty sick lol then again you seem like just the person who would he able to take those calls and laugh all the way home about it, kuddos.


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## photoguy99 (Jun 19, 2014)

When you charge a low price, you are making it clear that you do not value your time, equipment, talent, and so on. Why on earth do you expect your customers to value any of this stuff?

If you stood to make $1000 obviously it would be a big deal if they bail. Since you're only charging $50 or whatever, how big of a deal can it be? So they don't feel bad about bailing out.

!


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## AmberAtLoveAndInk (Jun 19, 2014)

vintagesnaps said:


> Set limits and guidelines. People will do that kind of thing all the time... the type of non-photography work I've done involved working with families, no-shows got a phone call then a letter then withdrawn if they didn't respond within a specific time frame. You might need to find a balance between being flexible and giving people too much leeway. (And if you're making a prop have it be something you can use again, not just for a one-time free/underpriced session that didn't work out.)
> 
> If you're going to be in business, then _be in business_! stop the freebies/underpricing (unless it's for a charity you choose to support). I don't know that you can ever eliminate all of this type thing but maybe it would help to learn techniques in how to schedule clients, give clear specific guidelines, etc. I think it takes being friendly yet professional and business-like and maybe your age and/or youthful appearance is sometimes not to your advantage - maybe it would help to think about how you portray yourself so people know you are a business owner.
> 
> Maybe a business class/workshop, such as an adult continuing ed. class, would be worth taking. I appreciate that you're a sincerely nice and generous person who likes people and has a personality that people respond to in a positive way - that can be a big part of being a photographer and you seem to have that. Maybe you need to think about what guidelines and procedures you should establish to help you be successful in running your own business.



This ^^^ 

I really do feel I am walked all over because of my age. Even when I'm mistaken for being 26 or 27 instead of 21 (my real age) I still get the "you're seriously running your own business?" looks. 
I dress appropriately, after all I am a mother, and I approach people in a respectable manner. I have a bit of "customer care" training under my belt from years of retail work in high school. I was also (this is embarrassing) an exotic dancer through college and dealt with probably more bs than any other person my age had to deal with. I invested my money, met my husband and started a family. I feel I am very mature for my age and have lived a much "longer" life than most. 
I guess I'm just too damn nice sometimes, since at one point I knew the financial struggle first hand, so I give people a break on when they are expected to pay. I also may have much lower prices than I need to have but I think everyone should be able to afford nice pictures of their family. Its important to me and I feel good about it. Most clients I have come back 2-4 times, always leaving me with wonderful words of praise for my flexibility and "humanness" I guess ill just have to put on my big bad business woman face to the people dawdling and tell them out flat how it works. Perhaps it'll get better when I'm old and mean looking lol.


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## AmberAtLoveAndInk (Jun 19, 2014)

photoguy99 said:


> When you charge a low price, you are making it clear that you do not value your time, equipment, talent, and so on. Why on earth do you expect your customers to value any of this stuff?
> 
> If you stood to make $1000 obviously it would be a big deal if they bail. Since you're only charging $50 or whatever, how big of a deal can it be? So they don't feel bad about bailing out.
> 
> !



I charge $130 for an hour session, not $50. I may still be on the super low budget end, but I'm not going to work for pennies. Its not a big deal if they bail financially, its a big deal because I spend countless hours scouting locations, going over everything with them via email or in person if they are available and I just think it's plain rude.


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## Derrel (Jun 19, 2014)

A deposit is refundable. A retainer is NOT.

I know what you mean about the last-minute cancellations. I just had a 29-minute phone convo with tomorrow's client, and I specifically asked her, "So, you're definitely going to show up, right? Because your $150 retainer is NOT refundable, and I will keep that, as it says in our written contract, whether you make it to the shoot location or not." I could tell that she understood I was not kidding. The check's already cleared, so...I expect she will show up, more or less on-time.

I know from another shooter whom I am FB friend with that she's been unreliable as hell when shooting with him for the past two years for "free"...


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## AmberAtLoveAndInk (Jun 19, 2014)

Derrel said:


> A deposit is refundable. A retainer is NOT.
> 
> I know what you mean about the last-minute cancellations. I just had a 29-minute phone convo with tomorrow's client, and I specifically asked her, "So, you're definitely going to show up, right? Because your $150 retainer is NOT refundable, and I will keep that, as it says in our written contract, whether you make it to the shoot location or not." I could tell that she understood I was not kidding. The check's already cleared, so...I expect she will show up, more or less on-time.
> 
> I know from another shooter whom I am FB friend with that she's been unreliable as hell when shooting with him for the past two years for "free"...



Everyone is always throwing the retainer vs deposit thing around, so I just out in writing on my site, on my contract and on my payment page that deposits are non-refundable under any circumstances (excluding acts of God)


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## photoguy99 (Jun 19, 2014)

The exact prices don't matter. The point is that this is a problem with the lower market segments in any business. Low prices imply low value, so customers tend to assume that you don't value it either.

The fact that you're working hard, that you do value it, etc, etc, is irrelevant. The customers see the low price and reach their own conclusions.

The advice on contracts and so forth is sound. I'm just answering your question about why people do this.


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## TheNevadanStig (Jun 19, 2014)

At least your getting calls regarding what you actually shoot. Since I started trying to get into sports photography, I get CONSTANT calls asking how much I would charge for something completely different, then I have to go on about how I ONLY do SPORTS. Most calls are about weddings, baby showers, and real estate. Half the time when I say I ONLY do SPORTS, I have been asked "oh, well, would you do the wedding for a discount then?"


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## robbins.photo (Jun 19, 2014)

AmberAtLoveAndInk said:


> > lol As to the job, well the really sick thing is I really like my job.
> 
> 
> 
> That is pretty sick lol then again you seem like just the person who would he able to take those calls and laugh all the way home about it, kuddos.



Oh ya, they crack me up.  They actually record eveything and they use a lot of these calls to train the floor supervisors on how to deal with irate calls - I guess because these are pretty much the worst of the worst you'll ever get.  The callers will say almost anything to get you angry so you'll lose your temper or curse them they have something to use to get their money back.  

I'm not sure where that idea got started but it seems to be pretty popular these days, in fact almost every call I do take (and granted, they are very few and far between) they almost all start of claiming that the agent or supervisor they were talking to was rude, etc - and my response is always the same, I apologize and then I ask them if they would like me to review the recording of their call to see if further action is warranted.  For some reason they never seem to want me to listen to the actual call, they flip immediately into some half baked argument that because the agent was rude they should get a refund, and I explain that's not how it works.  If they would like me to review the call recording and see if the agent was rude and if so recommend disciplinary action I'll be more than happy to do so, but the decision to refund is not based on that but rather on a completely different set of criteria.

It really does kill me though how many people think that if you call up and act like a 2 year old on a tear you'll get whatever you want.  The few calls I do end up dealing with are the ones where they have called 5,6,8 times and spoken to multiple supervisors and they are still under the delusion that if they just make a big enough stink they'll get a refund.  Of course they are always people who are well past the time period where we would be willing to offer a courtesy refund so the only guy in the Omaha office who can authorize a refund is.. dum dum dum.. yup, yours truly.  And boy is refunding under those circumstances a royal pain in the keester - I have to adjust financial statements that were already finalized, I can't refund back to the card anymore even if a card was used because of the time limitations, so I would have to actually have our accounting department cut them a paper check, etc etc - and since our terms and conditions are exceptionally clear on the time frame you have to file a dispute, well I've only had one instance where I honestly felt a refund was warranted.

Last time the CEO was in town they actually had him listen to a few of them.. including the cop call.  We got to the point in the call where the cop called me a sonofabitch, to which I responded - "Sir, I honestly think you would have liked my mother, had you ever met her".  The CEO lost it.  Lol.  So yup, on the rare occasion I do take one of these I generally have a lot of fun with it.  Lol


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## pgriz (Jun 19, 2014)

Get yourself a credit card reader and account from a credit card processor.  Someone want to book - $150 depost, applied to whatever the package ends up costing.  Forfeited if the appointment is missed.  

I'm a contractor in the retail sector.  Many people call in wanting someone to come out and give them a quote to fix the leak, or whatever.  The standard response is - yes, we'll be there in half an hour.  The service call fee is $350 plus taxes, and pays for the first hour we're on the job.  The repair guy will bring you the credit card receipt when he comes.  Now, where will be we going?  Ok, thanks.  Who's going to be there to show us what the problem is?  Good.  And what credit card will you be using to pay for the service call?  

Those that don't want to pay...  there are lots of other "contractors" in the phone book or on google search.  

As for your age, it's irrelevant.  If you can conduct yourself as a professional, deliver a professional experience and give your clients the value that they pay for, then you are a professional and your age is quite irrelevant.


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## imagemaker46 (Jun 20, 2014)

I've had lots of jobs cancelled, usually given a week or more, but have had the day before happen as well.  While I find it frustrating, I understand that things come up, people do get sick, or they just change their minds.  I give people a couple of chances.  I was suppose to do a team photo next week of a professional football team, I did some of the leg work yesterday, worked out where the risers were to be set up on the field, the time based on where the sun was going to be on that day, set out a list of what they had to do prior to the shoot to make it run smooth, and it was cancelled last night.  The stadium where the photo is being done is brand new and there are still too many construction concerns going on, I told them weeks ago it was too early to set the shot up, but they insisted.  It will be done at a later date, but now I have to hope it doesn't conflict with any other shoots I already have set up.  It will be the first team photo for this new team back in the Canadian Football League, so historically it's important that everything be lined up correctly.  I just accept that these things happen.

It's a real problem when shoots are scheduled and then overlap, that's the most frustrating. It's really the nature of the business. A lot of people just see photography as no big deal, especially these days, but it's a big deal to the photographer.


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## hombredelmar (Jun 20, 2014)

Vince.1551 said:


> I suggest next time no deposit no confirmation. It will save you lots of fruitless efforts.



Thats it!!!! I would rather lose a customer because he/she was not sure than to lose my time and money. If person is not willng to pay deposit person is not that interested as simple as that. Also, once your customer feels that you are charging less and willing to negotiate more u lose, end of story.


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## jowensphoto (Jun 20, 2014)

Non-refundable deposit due at the time the session is booked. No deposit, no shoot. The balance should be paid at the beginning of the appointment. No balance payment, no shoot.

Giving off the cuff discounts is a bad idea. Word of mouth is the fastest, most effective form of marketing, and these people are going to tell others about "what a great deal you gave them." Others will come to expect the same discounts and will be confused as to why the price you quote them isn't the same as what they heard.

To put it simply, your business will not survive if you continue to treat it like a hobby. Chances are your friends and the people who keep bailing on you are not your target market.


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## Civchic (Jun 20, 2014)

imagemaker46 said:


> I've had lots of jobs cancelled, usually given a week or more, but have had the day before happen as well. While I find it frustrating, I understand that things come up, people do get sick, or they just change their minds. I give people a couple of chances. I was suppose to do a team photo next week of a professional football team, I did some of the leg work yesterday, worked out where the risers were to be set up on the field, the time based on where the sun was going to be on that day, set out a list of what they had to do prior to the shoot to make it run smooth, and it was cancelled last night. The stadium where the photo is being done is brand new and there are still too many construction concerns going on, I told them weeks ago it was too early to set the shot up, but they insisted. It will be done at a later date, but now I have to hope it doesn't conflict with any other shoots I already have set up. It will be the first team photo for this new team back in the Canadian Football League, so historically it's important that everything be lined up correctly. I just accept that these things happen.
> 
> It's a real problem when shoots are scheduled and then overlap, that's the most frustrating. It's really the nature of the business. A lot of people just see photography as no big deal, especially these days, but it's a big deal to the photographer.



You're shooting the RedBlacks!  Very cool.  Now I'm going to keep a special eye out for that photo.  Do you ever work with the Ticats?

I agree with Vince - no deposit, no confirmation.  I get my family shots done every 9 months - year, and my photographer is also my babysitter - I consider her a friend first, even though we started as a business relationship.  I still don't book a shoot with her until I can pay at least 50% up front, with the rest to follow right away.


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## keyseddie (Jun 20, 2014)

jowensphoto said:


> Non-refundable deposit due at the time the session is booked. No deposit, no shoot. The balance should be paid at the beginning of the appointment. No balance payment, no shoot.
> 
> Giving off the cuff discounts is a bad idea. Word of mouth is the fastest, most effective form of marketing, and these people are going to tell others about "what a great deal you gave them." Others will come to expect the same discounts and will be confused as to why the price you quote them isn't the same as what they heard.
> 
> To put it simply, your business will not survive if you continue to treat it like a hobby. Chances are your friends and the people who keep bailing on you are not your target market.


This wins as the best advice on the OP's situation.:thumbup:


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## Rosy (Jun 20, 2014)

Unfortunately one phrase you must learn is

If you want to avoid getting disappointed...lower your expectations on people

I live by your motto - I would NEVER do that to anyone and when they do it to me - CRAP...it's like getting slapped in the face!


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## Tee (Jun 21, 2014)

jowensphoto said:


> Chances are your friends and the people who keep bailing on you are not your target market.



We have a winner right here!  I was thinking the exact same thing.


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## KmH (Jun 21, 2014)

vintagesnaps said:


> then _be in business_! stop the freebies/underpricing (unless it's for a charity you choose to support).


Bad idea.

Charge the charity the same as you charge everyone else, and make a personal (tax deductible) donation in support of the charity.


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## MRPhotography (Jul 9, 2014)

My personal opinion is do no work until you have money in hand.

Do no scouting for locations, do nothing. If you have a two week minimum before the shoot for the deposit to be in, one safely assumes that you originally set it up that way so you had time to set up the details of the shoot prior to shooting. 

I suffer from getting excited about a photoshoot prior to getting payment all the time, but it's a great way to feel burned for all the thought and time you've invested in something you've not seen a dime toward.


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