# Magic Lantern firmware....



## swiftparkour94 (Sep 21, 2012)

Ok, so it's only available for Canon DSLR's so if you're only a Nikon, Sony, etc. user it's probably a discussion that won't pertain to you. 

Anyways, for those that have it installed on their camera, what are your guy's favorite ML tools and what do you use them for most of the time?

For me, I always go straight to the WB settings and adjust the Kelvin accordingly wherever I'm at, then (I always forget the name of these tools so I'll just describe them) I make sure I have the tool with the colored dots that shows you what's in focus exactly and the one with the small zoomed box to ensure an accurate focus. This is essential when I shoot macro with the combination of my Vfinder and is the perfect set up! I love the ISO settings and audio level meters as well, great for filming! Their HDR bracketing is my other favorite, man I love that tool!


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## ceejtank (Sep 21, 2012)

What is this tool you speak of? Link?


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## MLeeK (Sep 21, 2012)

I won't install it on my cameras. 
You might find a few, but I don't know off hand of anyone here using it.


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## swiftparkour94 (Sep 21, 2012)

ceejtank said:
			
		

> What is this tool you speak of? Link?



Just Google it and click the wikia link, should be the first one. I'm on mobile and it's hard putting up links with a slow Internet connection


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## swiftparkour94 (Sep 21, 2012)

MLeeK said:
			
		

> I won't install it on my cameras.
> You might find a few, but I don't know off hand of anyone here using it.



Oh ok. May I ask why you don't?


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## Bynx (Sep 21, 2012)

swiftparkour94 said:


> MLeeK said:
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Good question since its only a small file that gets saved to the SD card. It doesnt affect the firmware of the camera at all. But the benefits it gives the camera are extremely useful.


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## swiftparkour94 (Sep 21, 2012)

Bynx said:
			
		

> Good question since its only a small file that gets saved to the SD card. It doesnt affect the firmware of the camera at all. But the benefits it gives the camera are extremely useful.



Yup, I love it


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## rokvi (Sep 21, 2012)

Bynx said:


> swiftparkour94 said:
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I had it and was ready to install, however the rather large warnings put me off.


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## zombiemann (Sep 21, 2012)

The large warning are a technicality.  So if someone does something stupid they can't blame Magic Lantern.  Kind of like the warnings about drowning on 5 gallon buckets.  It is a fool proof instal and easily reversible.

I have it on my T2i/550d.  The feature I use most is a combination of blinky overlays for Live View (it shows what parts are under/overexposed) and the expanded HDR features.  By default my camera can take 3 shot brackets, with ML I can shoot 9, or even set it to autodetect and the camera will take as many shots as it thinks it needs based on the in camera meter.  The only drawback to auto detect is it tends to take LARGE numbers of frames.  I think the most I've counted was 22.  Obviously if you are shooting RAW that can chew up a memory card pretty quick lol.  It can also write scripts to help in the processing of the HDRs but I haven't gotten around to messing with it, so I don't know how that particular feature works.... Weather permitting ask me Monday 

I played around with the intervalometer over this last weekend.  Unfortunately I wasn't able to use the images for what I had intended, but that was my fault not the camera or firmware.  I was trying to use it to take back to back (1s delay) 30second exposures to stack together for star trails but clouds decided to roll in when I wasn't paying attention so I was left with a memory card full of cloud pics instead of stars.  The functionality seemed spot on with the camera though.  

Another nice feature is audio triggered shutter.  At first it sounds silly and pointless, but if I forget to grab my remote all I have to do is set everything up and then I can trigger my shutter by snapping my fingers next to the camera.  

All in all it is an extremely handy tool.  I honestly can't see myself ever removing it.


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## prodigy2k7 (Sep 21, 2012)

I was reading about that. I was considering using it. No idea much about it yet.


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## swiftparkour94 (Sep 21, 2012)

rokvi said:
			
		

> I had it and was ready to install, however the rather large warnings put me off.



It's the same thing as a disinfectant bottle saying "Kills 99.9% of germs". They can't be exactly 100% sure that it will work flawlessly. Thousands of users have downloaded and installed stable versions. They only put up ones that have been brave enough to be tested by volunteers countless times until released as "stable". In it's history of existence (I think 2008) no one has ever experienced a bricked camera issue. Very rarely are there glitches which can simply be solved by removing the batter, shutting off the camera, or switching modes then back to the one you were on. I did over 3 months of research, countless YouTube videos, forums, blogs, comment threads. It's safe for me to say that it works perfectly and is an genius invention. I'll never give it up, it's on all my high speed cards


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## swiftparkour94 (Sep 21, 2012)

swiftparkour94 said:
			
		

> It's the same thing as a disinfectant bottle saying "Kills 99.9% of germs". They can't be exactly 100% sure that it will work flawlessly. Thousands of users have downloaded and installed stable versions. They only put up ones that have been brave enough to be tested by volunteers countless times until released as "stable". In it's history of existence (I think 2008) no one has ever experienced a bricked camera issue. Very rarely are there glitches which can simply be solved by removing the batter, shutting off the camera, or switching modes then back to the one you were on. I did over 3 months of research, countless YouTube videos, forums, blogs, comment threads. It's safe for me to say that it works perfectly and is an genius invention. I'll never give it up, it's on all my high speed cards



Apparently the year 2 0 0 8 turns into a smiley LOL


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## swiftparkour94 (Sep 21, 2012)

prodigy2k7 said:
			
		

> I was reading about that. I was considering using it. No idea much about it yet.



I'm very OCD, I didn't research it for months to end up not getting it. It is AMAZING, best tool ever. Nikon users rage over it not being available on their cameras, I've read forums it's a blood bath. I say you should get it just to try it. If you don't like it then just format your card and it's off  oh! A cool feature they have is to where you can check mark a box within your camera to keep ML and only delete picture or video files when formatting the card. Un-check it to take it off. If you need help installing it, we can Skype if you'd like. I've walked my friend through the installation process. It's super easy but it's good to be walked through it if you don't know what your doing or just simply want to feel reassured


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## Bynx (Sep 21, 2012)

I have something similar that is an app for my Asus Pad. It controls focus, liveview, does focus stacking and up to 15 shots HDR. The only problem is with the free version is the files are jpeg and are saved to the pad instead of to the SD card, therefore its slow and not good if there is a lot of movement in the scene.


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## ceejtank (Sep 24, 2012)

Drat. not for my camera ;(


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## Buckster (Sep 24, 2012)

ceejtank said:


> Drat. not for my camera ;(


You might want to check this: MagicLantern.fm - Magic Lantern on 7D ? YES !


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## PlanetStarbucks (Sep 25, 2012)

Bynx said:


> Good question since its only a small file that gets saved to the SD card. It doesnt affect the firmware of the camera at all. But the benefits it gives the camera are extremely useful.



Really?  That's it?  I thought it was a full install which is why I hadn't done it yet.  I definitely am intrigued by the feature set.  The expanded bracketing makes me drool, and if I remember right there's an in camera anomalimeter or something...you can set it to take a picture when the exposure changes.  Sounds epic for lightning photography.


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## swiftparkour94 (Sep 25, 2012)

PlanetStarbucks said:
			
		

> Really?  That's it?  I thought it was a full install which is why I hadn't done it yet.  I definitely am intrigued by the feature set.  The expanded bracketing makes me drool, and if I remember right there's an in camera anomalimeter or something...you can set it to take a picture when the exposure changes.  Sounds epic for lightning photography.



"Just get it" is what everyone in forums were saying about it, and it's what I'll tell you. just.get.it


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## zombiemann (Sep 26, 2012)

PlanetStarbucks said:


> Really?  That's it?  I thought it was a full install which is why I hadn't done it yet.  I definitely am intrigued by the feature set.  The expanded bracketing makes me drool, and if I remember right there's an in camera anomalimeter or something...you can set it to take a picture when the exposure changes.  Sounds epic for lightning photography.



It has a "motion detect" shutter release that basically monitors for contrast changes.  I honestly don't know how well it would work for lightning photography, it takes a split second for the change to register and the shutter to actuate, and I wouldn't be supprised to find that by the time it did its thing the lightning was already gone


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## swiftparkour94 (Sep 27, 2012)

zombiemann said:
			
		

> It has a "motion detect" shutter release that basically monitors for contrast changes.  I honestly don't know how well it would work for lightning photography, it takes a split second for the change to register and the shutter to actuate, and I wouldn't be supprised to find that by the time it did its thing the lightning was already gone



Yea I'd say the same. I noticed it when I was testing that tool, about half a second or a tad bit more off, but it didn't bother me because for lightning shots I'd just use my tripod and a remote shutter


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## Buckster (Sep 27, 2012)

swiftparkour94 said:


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Out of curiosity, what did you use to determine that time of "about half a second or a tad bit more"?



swiftparkour94 said:


> but it didn't bother me because for lightning shots I'd just use my tripod and a remote shutter


What's the remote shutter do for you as regards lightning shots?

By the way, some people are capturing lightning with the Magic Lantern firmware.  Not that it's the best thing for the job, but it's being done.  That would seem to confirm that it's not impossible.


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## zombiemann (Sep 27, 2012)

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't saying it was "impossible" just that with my camera it seems to be a less than ideal solution.  There are a number of factors that can play a part outside of software/firmware that can contribute to it being slow on my camera such as sensor, aperture (wider means more light hitting the sensor faster helping to trigger the shutter) .  I guess I could have worded my post a little better. IF I were to attempt it my mindset would be : Set up tripod, set exposure settings for as long of an exposure as feasible, set motion detect, hope for multiple strikes close together to further chances of getting a decent capture.  Unfortunately I wont be testing this feature any time soon.  I don't have a place to set up where my camera is safe that gets a good enough view of the sky.


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## Buckster (Sep 27, 2012)

zombiemann said:


> Don't get me wrong, I wasn't saying it was "impossible" just that with my camera it seems to be a less than ideal solution.


What camera do you use?


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## zombiemann (Sep 27, 2012)

Buckster said:


> zombiemann said:
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> > Don't get me wrong, I wasn't saying it was "impossible" just that with my camera it seems to be a less than ideal solution.
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T2i with the kit 18-55 F3.5-F5.6 lens

I should also note that I am a Magic Lantern fanatic, almost evangelistic.  TBH anybody that has a camera capable of running it that isn't using it is seriously missing out on some really nice features   Just in my particular unique situation the motion detect seems a tad slow.  It might work fine in real world for lightning photography, but I have no way of personally verifying that it would work.


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## Buckster (Sep 27, 2012)

This guy's using a T3i:

Lightning Photography with Magic Lantern: Digital Photography Review


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## zombiemann (Sep 27, 2012)

I wish I had a place I could set up to test it.  I could very well be wrong, and I truly hope I am.


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## swiftparkour94 (Sep 28, 2012)

Buckster said:
			
		

> Out of curiosity, what did you use to determine that time of "about half a second or a tad bit more"?
> 
> What's the remote shutter do for you as regards lightning shots?
> 
> By the way, some people are capturing lightning with the Magic Lantern firmware.  Not that it's the best thing for the job, but it's being done.  That would seem to confirm that it's not impossible.



My timing of it is a very rough estimate. The remote shutter is faster for me when shooting on my tripod and avoids camera shake. Of course it's possible to capture lightning with ML, I just wouldn't rely on it because I guarantee my eye is and reflexes are fractions of a second faster. If convenience isn't an issue then I'd feel like I'm cheating because the camera took the shot at the right moment and not me so I wouldn't feel as happy about...that's just me


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## Buckster (Sep 28, 2012)

swiftparkour94 said:


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So, it's just a made-up guess of a number you threw out there, and not a tad bit more.  Fair enough.

I had a feeling that was the case, since it's already been determined that the speed for motion detection with Magic Lantern is actually somewhere between 200 and 300 ms, and it's even faster with silent pictures.  Translated to seconds, that's .2 to .3 secongs (and even faster with silent pictures), not .5 or "a tad bit more" per your claim.



swiftparkour94 said:


> The remote shutter is faster for me when shooting on my tripod and avoids camera shake.


Which is irrelevant when shooting lightning, which indicates that you know nothing about shooting lightning yet.  That's okay, anyone who shoots lightning has to learn it first and before they do, they just don't know how yet.



swiftparkour94 said:


> Of course it's possible to capture lightning with ML, I just wouldn't rely on it because I guarantee my eye is and reflexes are fractions of a second faster.


That's just downright funny.



swiftparkour94 said:


> If convenience isn't an issue then I'd feel like I'm cheating because the camera took the shot at the right moment and not me so I wouldn't feel as happy about...that's just me


LOL!  And that's REALLY funny!

Get back to me after you've shot some lightning by being Mr. Quick-Fingers on a remote shutter trigger with a reaction time that beats the equipment used for capturing lightning by people who actually do it.


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## zombiemann (Sep 28, 2012)

I gotta go with Buck on this one, I don't see how the remote would help.  I can safely say that I get more "lag" with my remote than with ML.  Also using tools available isn't cheating, its called maximizing your potential.  Just to clarify, I never said that ML wouldn't work, I said I didn't know if it would and simply gave my reasoning for why I felt the way I did.  I have since been shown hard data to the contrary (thanks btw Buck) and changed my stance accordingly.


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## swiftparkour94 (Sep 28, 2012)

Buckster said:
			
		

> So, it's just a made-up guess of a number you threw out there, and not a tad bit more.  Fair enough.
> 
> I had a feeling that was the case, since it's already been determined that the speed for motion detection with Magic Lantern is actually somewhere between 200 and 300 ms, and it's even faster with silent pictures.  Translated to seconds, that's .2 to .3 secongs (and even faster with silent pictures), not .5 or "a tad bit more" per your claim.
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> ...



Alright when storms roll in I'll get some shots. I have quick reflexes, I'm no one to underestimate. I should add that I tested it in the previous version of ML on a slower SD card in a room with darkness then lighting. That may have been the problem. The reason why I said I'd feel like I'm cheating is much similar to the spray-and-pray method which doesn't take much skill at all. Lightning is the last thing on my list to take photos of but I will test both ML and my reflexes when it comes to the subject matter as I now have a faster card and the newest updated ML version


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## Buckster (Sep 28, 2012)

swiftparkour94 said:


> Alright when storms roll in I'll get some shots. I have quick reflexes, I'm no one to underestimate. I should add that I tested it in the previous version of ML on a slower SD card in a room with darkness then lighting. That may have been the problem. The reason why I said I'd feel like I'm cheating is much similar to the spray-and-pray method which doesn't take much skill at all. Lightning is the last thing on my list to take photos of but I will test both ML and my reflexes when it comes to the subject matter as I now have a faster card and the newest updated ML version


I wish you all the best, and look forward to seeing your results.

Just as an FYI, to my knowledge, there are two ways to successfully shoot lightning.  The first is to use a long shutter and to shoot frame after frame after frame, hoping that you happen to be pointed in the right direction and that you get a nice bolt in one of your frames.  Then you just delete all the dark frames and are left with the keepers.  I've shot quite a few over the years using this method, like this one:







Now, you can call that method "spray and pray" if you like, but it's the most common, time-tested, accepted, and used method for shooting lightning to date.  It is and has been used by photographers, young and old, noob and pro, for much longer than you've been alive.  It is by no means considered some amateur method, as the term "spray and pray" connotes, and is, frankly, undeserving of such disparaging remarks, especially by someone who has zero experience shooting lightning.

The other method is to use hardware/software that detects a change in light or motion to trigger the shutter. Rather than shooting frame after frame of empty, dark shots, it shoots only when a change has been detected, reducing wear and tear on the shutter and other gear, obliviating the neccessity to go through hundreds of shots to delete the useless frames, removing the possibility of filling up the storage card just before the killer lightning shot got missed and, taking into account that it takes more time to write long exposures onto the card during which time the camera cannot fire another shot and may therefore miss THE shot you'd like to have gotten, doesn't waste time and space for that.

There are several trigger devices on the market that do this, and I have and use a couple of them.  Magic Lantern isn't one of them, at least not yet, but I'm interested in its potential (mostly for purposes other than for capturing lightning though, to be honest).  This is one of the shots I captured using a trigger made for the purpose:






Long before I learned about those two methods, back in the "old days" of film, when I was a young man, quick reflexes and all, I thought I could react fast enough to capture lightning in the way you're describing.  I wasted many a roll of film, developing dollars and time trying to react fast enough with my eye and finger, poised, ready, steady, and pouncing at the mere hint of a lightning strike during a storm, with not a single success to show for it.

Maybe you'll have more luck than I did; More luck that most everyone who's ever tried it has had.  But I wouldn't count on it, and here's why:

Human reaction time is typically on the order of .2 seconds and longer, depending on several factors.  You can test your reaction time here: Human Benchmark - Reaction Time Test

Now here's what you're racing against: A lightning bolt lasts approximately .03 seconds, and is typically followed by 3 to 4 "restrikes", usually along the same path as the first, separated by about .03 to .04 seconds each.  The total time then, from start to finish, for a lightning event is typically between about .12 seconds to about .19 seconds.

The chances of you pulling that off with human reflexes that typically come in at .2+ seconds are slim.  Not impossible, but luck definitely plays a role.  Your luck gets better if you're lucky enough to try it during a lightning event that has more than 4 "restrikes", but again, the typical lightning event only has 3 to 4.

You've also got to calculate in the time it takes between you pressing the shutter button and the camera actually firing, which is also a few milliseconds, depending on the camera you're using, and that certainly isn't going to help you.

You may begin to see the reality of the problem at this point, but don't let that discourage you.  Go ahead and try your hand at shooting lightning relying only on your breathtaking reflexes, which are, apparently, literally "faster than lightning".

Lightning triggers, including Magic Lantern, detect the first event, trigger the camera, and actually manage to have the shutter open during one or more of the "restrikes".

Lightning triggers, like the many other types of triggers used for specialty photography, are no more "cheating" than using artificial lighting via strobes, diffusers, flags, gobos, backgrounds or just taking a step to the left to get a different perspective that eliminates the look of a tree branch growing out of our subject's head.

As photographers, we use many tools, from our feet to our choice of lens and filter and light modifiers, to specialty electronic devices, to darkroom or computer post processing techniques - all to get the shot we desire to share with our clients or the world.  There is no shame in any of it, nor is any of it "cheating"; It is simply using the tools available to deliver an end product, and in the end, it is only the end product that matters.

Nobody cares what the assembly line looks like, what tools were used, how many workers were involved, what color the wrenches are, what size broom heads sweep the floor, whether the lug nuts were tightened by human hand with a chrome-plated lug wrench or by robot with a titanium pneumatic lug nut tightener - all they care about is the shiny new vehicle that comes off the end of that assembly line and whether or not is looks and runs to their satisfaction.

Ultimately, photography is not about the gear used - it's about the photograph at the end.


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