# Captain



## smoke665 (Jan 12, 2020)

I've decided that 2020 is going to be a year of new experiences, and challenges. I've known this young man since he was kid, worked many fires with him over the years, and wasn't anyone else I'd rather have by my side on an entry. I've thought for a long time he'd make an excellent subject for a Firefighter project I've been wanting to shoot. Despite the bad weather, and some equipment problems, finally managed to pull it off. So many keepers so little time, just a few of the ones I liked. I wanted a gritty, look, so these were all shot using  modified Clam shell lighting. There was a 24" beauty Dish High on camera axis angled down and a white reflector low angled up. My lens was poked between the two. Background light was a 7" strobe with red gel pointing straight up, black backdrop, and smoke machine completed the effect.  C&C always welcome

#1



 
#2


 
#3


 
#4


 
#5


----------



## Jeff15 (Jan 12, 2020)

Very good shooting........


----------



## CherylL (Jan 12, 2020)

I like the grittiness of the color and the lighting of his face.  Can you go darker with the hat and clothing?  I haven't calibrated my monitor yet so maybe it isn't as bright as I'm seeing.


----------



## smoke665 (Jan 12, 2020)

CherylL said:


> I like the grittiness of the color and the lighting of his face.  Can you go darker with the hat and clothing?  I haven't calibrated my monitor yet so maybe it isn't as bright as I'm seeing.



Thank you. That was the word I was hoping would be used to describe it. I could possibly go darker but the black point is close now. The jacket is the actual color.


----------



## smoke665 (Jan 13, 2020)

Jeff15 said:


> Very good shooting........



Thank you!


----------



## stapo49 (Jan 13, 2020)

Great images! If I had a fire at my place he looks like the guy I would want to come put it out.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


----------



## Warhorse (Jan 13, 2020)

Well done!

Very strong images.


----------



## smoke665 (Jan 13, 2020)

@stapo49 Thanks man! We're all volunteers, and he's the son of another long time member. As a kid he lived and breathed fighting fires, even though he was to young to go on calls, he was at trainings, going through classes, so that when he turned 18 he was way better trained then the typical volunteer. Since then despite a full time job that requires a lot of overtime, and a family, he still donates a tremendous amount of time to the department and community. No surprise he has a young son, who like his Dad before him, is already hanging out at the fire hall every chance he gets.

@Warhorse Thank you, that's what I was shooting for.


----------



## stapo49 (Jan 13, 2020)

smoke665 said:


> @stapo49 Thanks man! We're all volunteers, and he's the son of another long time member. As a kid he lived and breathed fighting fires, even though he was to young to go on calls, he was at trainings, going through classes, so that when he turned 18 he was way better trained then the typical volunteer. Since then despite a full time job that requires a lot of overtime, and a family, he still donates a tremendous amount of time to the department and community. No surprise he has a young son, who like his Dad before him, is already hanging out at the fire hall every chance he gets.
> 
> @Warhorse Thank you, that's what I was shooting for.


We are having horrendous fires on the east coast of Australia at the moment with most of them being fought by volunteers, some who have lost their lives. Big respect to all volunteer firefighters. 

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


----------



## smoke665 (Jan 13, 2020)

stapo49 said:


> We are having horrendous fires on the east coast of Australia at the moment with most of them being fought by volunteers, some who have lost their lives. Big respect to all volunteer firefighters.



I've been watching that on the news. If I was 20yrs younger, I'd seriously consider being a part of the group that went over from the states to help. What an adventure that would be!!


----------



## stapo49 (Jan 13, 2020)

smoke665 said:


> stapo49 said:
> 
> 
> > We are having horrendous fires on the east coast of Australia at the moment with most of them being fought by volunteers, some who have lost their lives. Big respect to all volunteer firefighters.
> ...


They are saying close to 11 million hectares (around 27 million acres) burnt. It looks like they are getting some rain and cooler weather in the worse hit areas so hopefully this will help in extinguishing the fires.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


----------



## PJM (Jan 13, 2020)

Well done!  I like #1 the most.

And I commend your choice for your project.


----------



## tirediron (Jan 13, 2020)

Damn dude.. that first one?  NAILED it!!!!!

Nominated for POTM


----------



## smoke665 (Jan 13, 2020)

@PJM Thank you. I've been thinking it might be fun to put together a calendar for fund raising project. Finding 11 more firemen who aren't bashful about having their picture taken might be difficult though.


----------



## smoke665 (Jan 13, 2020)

tirediron said:


> Damn dude.. that first one?  NAILED it!!!!!
> 
> Nominated for POTM



Wow!!!!!!! Thanks man!!!! That was a favorite of mine. I also like #4 just for the expression.


----------



## smoke665 (Jan 13, 2020)

Another pick from the Firefighter batch. Seems I may have a few more to shoot now as others have decided they want in.


----------



## snowbear (Jan 13, 2020)

Nice shot.

I'm surprised he gets a proper mask seal.


----------



## smoke665 (Jan 13, 2020)

snowbear said:


> Nice shot.
> 
> I'm surprised he gets a proper mask seal.



Masks? We don't need no stinkin Masks! LOL


----------



## enezdez (Jan 13, 2020)

@smoke665 You should be the official Fire Station Photographer Dude!!!!   lol. 

Awesome Work My Friend!!!


----------



## stapo49 (Jan 14, 2020)

smoke665 said:


> @PJM Thank you. I've been thinking it might be fun to put together a calendar for fund raising project. Finding 11 more firemen who aren't bashful about having their picture taken might be difficult though.


Great idea. The actual paid as opposed to the volunteer firefighters here in Perth do one every year for various charities. They don't seem shy about getting their tops off lol. Probably because they are all ripped and have six packs.The females also get involved. In their case their tops stay on. 

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


----------



## smoke665 (Jan 14, 2020)

stapo49 said:


> They don't seem shy about getting their tops off lol



The ones in our department that wouldn't be shy about it aren't the ones you would want on a calender.


----------



## CherylL (Jan 14, 2020)

Love the last shot.  Great work on adding the smoke.  I calibrated my new monitor and the photos do not look too light now.


----------



## malling (Jan 14, 2020)

Well done, the first and last one are simply amazing.


----------



## smoke665 (Jan 14, 2020)

CherylL said:


> Love the last shot.  Great work on adding the smoke.  I calibrated my new monitor and the photos do not look too light now.



Thanks Cheryl. I had my smoke machine running but it wasn't giving me the large tendrils that I was looking for. I was having problems with various smoke backgrounds that I had as well, they just didn't look right. I'd decided to do flames instead, but when I added the flame layer, I changed the blend mode to luminosity out of curiosity and voila it deleted the color leaving me the large tendrils I was after. 

@malling Thank you!!


----------



## Donde (Jan 14, 2020)

Great portraits nicely composed. Wouldn't be surprised if these show up in Esquire Magazine or the like.


----------



## smoke665 (Jan 14, 2020)

Donde said:


> Great portraits nicely composed. Wouldn't be surprised if these show up in Esquire Magazine or the like.



Wow, thank you that's quite a compliment.


----------



## vintagesnaps (Jan 14, 2020)

I think the portraits as far as posing, expressions, sharpness, etc. are excellent. Where you kind of lost me on the first one is the grayness; I'd go with a ligher touch in adjusting the tint/tone. 

On the helmet in the first that lettering was most likely off white, but seems like if anything it maybe should be a bit warmer in tone while still being a bit grungy from wear. I don't get gritty, I just get too gray heading into drab. (I can't unsee that white part of the helmet and how gray that is.) The skin tone got too gray, and I'd expect the red and the yellow reflective(?) stripes on the jacket to stand out a bit more even if it's worn and the color is no longer vibrant. 

I guess I'm thinking about grungy hockey, where pads have black knicks and scrapes etc. but the color isn't grayish, it's off white (with grime). Maybe borrow/use an older jacket just for some test shots and think about what does it look like? Are there marks from use? Figure out how you can show those to get a gritty feel and not go too artificial with it.


----------



## smoke665 (Jan 14, 2020)

vintagesnaps said:


> I guess I'm thinking about grungy hockey, where pads have black knicks and scrapes etc. but the color isn't grayish, it's off white (with grime). Maybe borrow/use an older jacket just for some test shots and think about what do



Pretty much what the turnout looked like, smoke has a way of turning everything gray. Normally they go through an extractor (fancy washer that removes the contaminants) after a fire, but that particular coat despite being relatively new is trashed. Not shown in the image is a large melted area toward the bottom. He was assisting another department in fighting a large industrial warehouse fire when a wall collapsed, against him. He got out okay with no injuries, but the burn means it can't be used again and the cost of repair was to much . The replacement set he has on in some other shots set us back a little over $3k.


----------



## DanOstergren (Jan 14, 2020)

They're good shots; well lit, composed and conceptualized. As for CC, I don't care for the purple skin tone as it has a corpse look to it, and I would have liked a little more intensity in his expressions, rather than the general lack of emoting in these shots.


----------



## vintagesnaps (Jan 15, 2020)

Besides the skin tone being off, I think tinting it gray overall actually takes away from details and variation in tan and sooty fabric, etc. You've got a real firefighter in a uniform with real smudges and marks that got somewhat obscured by the gray. I did a quick search of photos of firefighters and looked at professional ones from newspapers/TV stations and a lot of uniforms are tan and you can see the variation of grimy jackets/uniforms. I think these got too overall  gray

I noticed for example the first helmet where there are a couple of black marks on the white part around 'Captain'. I feel like it could better being able to see black marks on offwhite, rather than those being somewhat lost in the gray.


----------



## malling (Jan 15, 2020)

vintagesnaps said:


> Besides the skin tone being off, I think tinting it gray overall actually takes away from details and variation in tan and sooty fabric, etc. You've got a real firefighter in a uniform with real smudges and marks that got somewhat obscured by the gray. I did a quick search of photos of firefighters and looked at professional ones from newspapers/TV stations and a lot of uniforms are tan and you can see the variation of grimy jackets/uniforms. I think these got too overall  gray
> 
> I noticed for example the first helmet where there are a couple of black marks on the white part around 'Captain'. I feel like it could better being able to see black marks on offwhite, rather than those being somewhat lost in the gray.



Now there is no rules that dictate that a portrait needs to depict actual colour and skin tone, it’s called creative freedom for a reason. The greyish tone is something that has been used for ages, whether one like it or not is and will always be subjective, personally I think it can have it’s merits if used correctly. In this case I think I contribute to an atmosphere that you would not otherwise get if OP had chosen a more natural colour scheme, a quick search on google on firefighter portraits also shows this. 

Secondly using a smoking machine is going to influence on contrast and colour representation.


----------



## smoke665 (Jan 15, 2020)

@vintagesnaps I always appreciate the keen critique and comments by you and others, and I don't want to come off as unappreciative, because I respect every opinion, but most of the things brought up delve more into personal opinion and taste, which can vary greatly. Differences in taste make the world an interesting place but one is never more right than the other.   I can and do occasionally take more conventional portraiture shots which would represent the realism you describe, but personally find them boring.  I'm at a point in life where I enjoy the  freedom of restrictions to explore and work in whatever creative direction I choose. As I pointed out in another thread on the same subject, this series does not follow a conventional portraiture approach nor were they intended to be. The choice of all colors, tones, processing, etc., were deliberate choices made to achieve a predetermined vision for the set.  While I realize and expect that there might be some that don't like this sort of vision, it is never the less the one I  liked and created for the series. Based on other  positive responses here as well as the feedback from the subject and his peers in the department, it will be the one I continue with as I start on the second shoot this weekend.


----------



## Photo Lady (Jan 15, 2020)

Great photos... so rugged and thank god for firemen


----------



## DanOstergren (Jan 16, 2020)

malling said:


> vintagesnaps said:
> 
> 
> > Besides the skin tone being off, I think tinting it gray overall actually takes away from details and variation in tan and sooty fabric, etc. You've got a real firefighter in a uniform with real smudges and marks that got somewhat obscured by the gray. I did a quick search of photos of firefighters and looked at professional ones from newspapers/TV stations and a lot of uniforms are tan and you can see the variation of grimy jackets/uniforms. I think these got too overall  gray
> ...


No one said there were rules that dictate anything about portraits, but CC was specifically stated as being welcome; responses such as yours say it's unwelcome however. Which is it?



malling said:


> Secondly using a smoking machine is going to influence on contrast and colour representation.


Not as much as you are implying it would, especially considering that there is barely any visible smoke whatsoever in these shots.


----------



## DanOstergren (Jan 16, 2020)

smoke665 said:


> @vintagesnaps I always appreciate the keen critique and comments by you and others, and I don't want to come off as unappreciative, because I respect every opinion, but most of the things brought up delve more into personal opinion and taste, which can vary greatly. Differences in taste make the world an interesting place but one is never more right than the other.   I can and do occasionally take more conventional portraiture shots which would represent the realism you describe, but personally find them boring.  I'm at a point in life where I enjoy the  freedom of restrictions to explore and work in whatever creative direction I choose. As I pointed out in another thread on the same subject, this series does not follow a conventional portraiture approach nor were they intended to be. The choice of all colors, tones, processing, etc., were deliberate choices made to achieve a predetermined vision for the set.  While I realize and expect that there might be some that don't like this sort of vision, it is never the less the one I  liked and created for the series. Based on other  positive responses here as well as the feedback from the subject and his peers in the department, it will be the one I continue with as I start on the second shoot this weekend.


We're all aware of deliberate artistic choice, but you did say that CC was welcome, so I'm confused on why you're responding by telling us that we're wrong because other people said so.


----------



## malling (Jan 16, 2020)

DanOstergren said:


> malling said:
> 
> 
> > vintagesnaps said:
> ...



When someone clearly point out the skin tone is incorrect, It’s hardly constructive criticism, as that statement clearly tells that there is a wright and a wrong. The poster could have written it in far more constructive manner.

Criticism is always welcome in my world. however at least try to be constructive. 

I’m not implying that it’s going to be as pronounced as the photos in this series, it obviously ain’t going to, for that there is simply not enough smoke for it. However it dos influence, I never stated how much, as how much really depends on the setting and amount of smoke.


----------



## Original katomi (Jan 16, 2020)

Hi Smoke, you know that I have a reputation for being out of the box. So any chance of other side of the story shots.
Non invasive or morbid but the sort of thing that is not shown . Eg the damaged coat, the day to day boring jobs like re winding the hose, cleaning up after the event.
I am not a firefighter, but I was invited out to a practice shout, and now know there is a lot more that goes on than the 
Average person ever sees.
A nod of respect to you and all other firefighters


----------



## smoke665 (Jan 16, 2020)

malling said:


> In this case I think I contribute to an atmosphere that you would not otherwise get if OP had chosen a more natural colour scheme,



Thank you. The original files were processed as conventional portraits, as I do all my images, before creative adjustments take place. I find it easier to start from a good image, rather then making correction on the fly.  I could easily have stopped there with solid portraits, but I wanted more. Glad you saw that. I'll add that some of the effect was due to lighting, using a setup patterened after one Joel Grimes uses in his dramatic images. The majority of the processing was done in Lr which further accentuated that lighting, then finished in Ps. No "gray" was added anywhere along the line, there was some selective desaturation and hue adjustment along the way. Again though, there are differing opinions when you cross over that line between reality and creative interpretation, as "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". There is no right or wrong on what we like.

@Original katomi over the years I've been fortunate that my "day job" provided sufficiently that I've been able to give back by volunteering in my community. Small fire departments especially rural departments struggle, they barely have enough to pay the bills, let alone pay firefighters. Our department receives about 40% of our operating budget from tax revenue, another 20% comes in from handouts from various state agencies, and the remaing 40% from fundraisers, and grants. Despite the volunteer status our guys spend countless hours in training, so they can respond at all hours of the night to any emergency. Our district covers an area of over 130 sq miles out of two stations, yet our response times rival many paid departments.  I no longer actively respond but remain active in the department serving where neeced, primarily with grant writing, fundraising, training and mentoring. I posted some awhile back of the department "at play" doing a controlled burn on a house that the owner wanted gone.


----------



## DaPOPO (Jan 16, 2020)

1 & 4 are my favorite. Love the lighting and the editing. If what you were trying to achieve on gritty, tough, manly, you did a great job!


----------



## smoke665 (Jan 16, 2020)

DaPOPO said:


> 1 & 4 are my favorite. Love the lighting and the editing. If what you were trying to achieve on gritty, tough, manly, you did a great job!



Thank you!!!!!!!!!


----------



## DanOstergren (Jan 18, 2020)

malling said:


> DanOstergren said:
> 
> 
> > malling said:
> ...


All I see here is someone complaining because they didn't like the CC that was requested... blah blah blah, next. Vintagesnaps' critique was more than constructive enough. Responses like yours are the reason why others won't say anything more than "Great shot!" to every image posted in photography forums, and why actually valid and valuable critique gets buried behind crap comments like yours.

By all means though, show us your work; I'd love to see where your expert opinions are coming from.


----------



## Derrel (Jan 18, 2020)

I generally like these, but the first thing I noticed was that the skin tone looks more purple-ish magenta than I would like to see. I think that the first shot has the most purple in the skin tone. If you want C&C well there's mine. I would revisit the processing on these.

Back in the old days of C-prints, a home studio worker would have 6 to 9 different test controls showing him what an image would look like with 10cc  or 15cc of variations in several different colors... 10 to 15 units of color correction can make a huge difference in how people perceive am image.

I really don't think the skin tones in the face are optimized yet.


----------



## smoke665 (Jan 18, 2020)

Derrel said:


> I really don't think the skin tones in the face are optimized yet.



Not sure if it's the web or differences in monitor calibrations. On my monitor and on the android tablet I double chk on, some of these might have a slight red tint, but not enough that I found it objectionable. Part of it might be environmental, there was a gelled red strobe behind him, and smoke swirling around, so that light did bounce around a lot.  I'll revisit them again before printing. None of these have been soft proofed to IEC 61966-2-1:1999. I don't generally do proofing till I'm ready to print, and then use my labs custom profiles.


----------



## vintagesnaps (Jan 19, 2020)

Dan has a point... If we didn't see potential or how fantastic it could be, I don't know if we'd bother with feedback. I see magenta (apparently Derrel sees it/purple too). It just looks off, like there's a need for more adjustment. If you didn't add gray then it apparently is desaturated to a point that you're left with the tones. It's such a potentially beautiful portrait it just seems unfinished/not adjusted and not quite 'there' yet. (My only other nit is the black streaks on the face look like finger streaks done purposefully more than from someone wiping their face,maybe a little too black.) 

If it's something personally important then it can be natural to feel a reaction, but then sometimes you gotta step back and try to look at it objectively. I've had to let something go that I liked, had to realize it wasn't working and it had to go, maybe save the idea for something else another time. I've had to put it away for awhile, ask a friend, come back and change it and let it go. Maybe because I've gotten that type feedback from instructors that I learned to make myself redo what didn't work and try again, even as much as I liked it as it was. Later I realize it looks better.


----------



## Photo Lady (Jan 19, 2020)

wow just so awesome and so professionally accomplished


----------



## smoke665 (Jan 19, 2020)

@vintagesnaps Please read my post #43 above "I'll revisit them again before printing".  I really didn't want to get into defending my  color/tone/hue choices at this point as I have a backlog of editing to do, but you seem intent on not letting it go, so I revisited image #1 of the set.

Not sure what you or others are viewing these on, (phone, tablet, calibrated monitor) or under what lighting conditions (Incandescent light, ambient light, etc) but as you know any of these factors can  make a difference. For the record I use a calibrated monitor, in a light controlled room (led daylight cans), with no exterior windows.  I use Nations as my lab, and soft proof images to their supplied color profiles prior to sending them. I don't use their color correction, and my return images are matching what I'm seeing on my screen. Finally web browsers and web servers can and do affect color, such that what you're looking at likely isn't the same as what I'm looking at in Ps.

Now as to my image. 18% Gray is defined in RGB as (128,128,128), there can be various shades, but until you get into the slate colors the red, green and blue are equal.  Magenta is mixed by adding equal parts red and blue, and 0 parts green. Medium Purple is RGB (147,112,219). Caucasian skin is a duke's mixture of just about everything ranging from shades of gray to almost red, there is no definitive mixture because we are all different. Add in some environmental elements like smoke, lights, and processing and things can look different, but I repeat these were never meant to be exact replicas of the subjects. 

Sampling the color average of the shadow just under the left eye of image 1, I got (42,35,38) CMYK (62%,72%,58%,58%) which puts it in a slate category with browns and greens, while a sample of the left cheek highlight revealed (211,197,194) and CMYK of (8%,19%,13%,0%) which falls well in a midrange for Caucasian skin. Typically I'd like to see the Magenta at closer to 27% and the yellow at closer to 32%, however considering the desaturation used as part of the processing the numbers don't surprise me and in any case, it's a far cry from having magenta or purple tones. The tip of the nose samples at RGB (184,175,173) and CMYK (19%, 25%,20%,0%) which tells me I could drop the Cyan just a tad, and up the Yellow, but no purple, magenta or gray tint there either.  I didn't sample anything other then skin, but it wouldn't surprise me if the background had reds, purples, even magenta. After all I was pumping gray smoke onto the set, with a black background and firing a red gelled strobe. 

Each person perceives color in two different ways, what they actually see and a learned  environmental response. People's actual perception of color varies drastically. We also have certain universal environmental responses (things we've learned from experiences), that can trick the mind to see something different. IE: you know blood is red so you see it as red, despite what your eyes might register. FYI Blood is not RED, it's a medium dark shade of Red with an RGB of (138,3,3). Throw in things like different monitors, and different viewing circumstances and it becomes an even greater variable. 

Color/tint/toning has long been recognized as a creative element, many people, including Dan and Derrel, who you mentioned earlier, have used same in their images. There's been times I haven't always agreed with their choice, but I always gave them the benefit of recognizing they made an informed decision  and as the artist they have that right. Unfortunately I'm not sure I've gotten the same consideration here. As I've said over and over I appreciate critique, negative especially, as it helps me grow. I try my best to remember negative comments and evaluate them for changes I need to make. Bottom line, I don't dispute what you may or may not see, I can only say by the numbers and by my eyes, on my monitor, I'm not seeing the need to make the changes you suggest. Continuing to belabor the issue at this point is unlikely to change my mind. However, as I said earlier, if and when I send these to print, I will soft proof to the labs profile, and if I believe adjustments are necessary I will make them at that time.


----------



## DanOstergren (Jan 19, 2020)

vintagesnaps said:


> If we didn't see potential or how fantastic it could be, I don't know if we'd bother with feedback.


This, 100%.

Despite all of the continued defensiveness, I'm going to stand behind my original perception that while I understand the idea of personal artistic choice, the skin tone still gives me "corpse". I'm viewing on a calibrated iMac 4K Retina display in a dimly lit room with no light sources bouncing off of my display, and my prints always match my display. My CC isn't anything personal, just a perception that was asked for. Color has a lot to do with the language of an image, and the color in these do not feel right.


----------



## smoke665 (Jan 19, 2020)

@DanOstergren Despite what you might think, there is no defensiveness on my part, as I've said I value all critique, but once given, repeating the same over and over, does no good for anyone, especially where creative differences are involved. There's been several of yours that I didn't care for in one way or another, but didn't make it a point to dis them repeatedly. I can accept you don't like my images, that's fine, it's your prerogative, move on, as I am doing the same.


----------



## DanOstergren (Jan 19, 2020)

smoke665 said:


> @DanOstergren Despite what you might think, there is no defensiveness on my part, as I've said I value all critique, but once given, repeating the same over and over, does no good for anyone, especially where creative differences are involved. There's been several of yours that I didn't care for in one way or another, but didn't make it a point to dis them repeatedly. I can accept you don't like my images, that's fine, it's your prerogative, move on, as I am doing the same.


You are taking my critique as a "dis" and bringing up images of mine that you don't like as a response to my critique. If you could be objective you might see the value in the echoed criticism from multiple skilled and accomplished photographers who responded with the same sentiment. There wasn't a single time that I said I disliked your images, and I have never said this. To the contrary I pointed out in my original critique that I did like them, and then repeated the sentiment by quoting the same message from vintagesnaps saying that we see the potential for something fantastic in these shots and wouldn't be taking the time to give our opinions if we didn't. My exact quote in my original critique was: "_They're good shots; well lit, composed and conceptualized._", but thanks for responding by bringing up how there are several shots of mine that you dislike after I complimented yours, simply so you could rationalize your defensiveness over receiving the CC that you asked for but clearly didn't want to hear.

So please, tell me more about how you're not being defensive or dismissive.


----------



## Derrel (Jan 19, 2020)

There seems to be no point in bringing anything to the attention of the OP... apparently the numbers check out and the fault lies in our personal color sense or our devices...


----------



## smoke665 (Jan 19, 2020)

DanOstergren said:


> You are taking my critique as a "dis"



I think the word used on two different occasions was "corpse".



DanOstergren said:


> If you could be objective you might see the value in the echoed criticism from multiple skilled and accomplished photographers who responded with the same sentiment.



I didn't say I didn't see value in anyone's comments negative or positive, nor did I say they were invalid. I said I'm not seeing it on my end, but will evaluate them prior to printing.


----------



## DanOstergren (Jan 19, 2020)

smoke665 said:


> I think the word used on two different occasions was "corpse".


_And so? Where is the offense? 
_
You want honest critique but you can't take it.



smoke665 said:


> I didn't say I didn't see value in anyone's comments negative or positive, nor did I say they were invalid. I said I'm not seeing it on my end, but will evaluate them prior to printing.


Bringing up the fact that you don't like some of my images as a response to my critique clearly implies that you aren't being objective and that you aren't taking the feedback as valid.


----------



## smoke665 (Jan 19, 2020)

Derrel said:


> There seems to be no point in bringing anything to the attention of the OP... apparently the numbers check out and the fault lies in our personal color sense or our devices...



As I've said prior I respect your opinions, hope you feel the same toward me. Your comments were duly noted, but as to further discussions on the subject I see it descending into a nonproductive online argument.


----------



## Derrel (Jan 19, 2020)

I agree, and there will be no further discussion from me.  It is apparent that your mind is made up, and that you are pretty sure of your position. I can assure you there will be no more attempts on my part to dissuade you from your position.


----------



## smoke665 (Jan 19, 2020)

DanOstergren said:


> smoke665 said:
> 
> 
> > I think the word used on two different occasions was "corpse".
> ...



I've explained my side, I've tried to be nice, but I'm done.  Suggest you add me to your ignore list and I'll do the same.


----------



## DanOstergren (Jan 19, 2020)

smoke665 said:


> DanOstergren said:
> 
> 
> > smoke665 said:
> ...


Oh gosh, pleeeeaaase don't block me! Whatever shall I do??  Q_Q


----------



## smoke665 (Jan 19, 2020)

Derrel said:


> I can assure you there will be no more attempts on my part to dissuade you from your position.



Thank you sir.


----------



## pixmedic (Jan 20, 2020)

Im way late to this party but I'll throw in my 2 pence.

I feel like these are a little on the "cool" end of the spectrum, which is usually my preference for portraits anyway, so no big deal there.
In the interest of full disclosure, I am viewing these on my phone from work but I'll take a look from home when I get off shift. 

Pose wise I like #1 and #2. 
I find the hand in the others, despite holding the axe, is more distracting than the ax more off screen in #2.  I guess i just feel it looks cleaner.
#1 is definitely the winner of the bunch though.


----------



## smoke665 (Jan 21, 2020)

pixmedic said:


> Im way late to this party but I'll throw in my 2 pence.
> 
> I feel like these are a little on the "cool" end of the spectrum, which is usually my preference for portraits anyway, so no big deal there.
> In the interest of full disclosure, I am viewing these on my phone from work but I'll take a look from home when I get off shift.
> ...




Thanks man. I struggled with the axe and still don't have a clue which works better.


----------

