# what do boudoir photographers do with archives if they quit the business?



## penman53 (Jul 14, 2013)

I am not a professional photographer.  However...... I have a very serious and personal question.

My wife is not a professional model.  However, in 2005 she posed mostly naked for boudoir photos as a personal gift for me.  She was paranoid about the photos ending up on the Internet or in the wrong hands.  If they did and she was discovered, it would be very embarrassing for both of us as well as possibly damaging for her career.  We specifically chose a photographer from a neighboring state so there was no chance she would run into him in our town.  It was purely to be a one-time thing for her and the photos were supposed to be for my eyes only.  He gave me several model references.  I contacted three and all stressed he was a true professional.  

In 2008 I ordered more enlargements and he made them.  No problem there.  Last holiday season I decided I wanted more enlargements; of course, I didn't know if he even had them after so many years.

I was stunned to find that he seems to have vanished.  The phone number I have for him is no longer in service.  My emails to him have been returned.  He still has his web site up but it looks like it hasn't been updated for years.  (A friend told me there is no regular maintenance fee for that type of web site.) 

I got in touch with a handful of other photographers from his area and not a one ever heard of him, to say nothing of where he is.  One of those photographers did me a favor and put a note about my search for him on the forum of a state photographers group.  Those who replied said they never heard of him.  I did locate one of the models who served as a reference back in 2005.  She said she thinks he left photography because his girlfriend was unhappy with the lack of a steady income.  She reassured me that he always acted professionally during the six or so shoots she did with him.  (I know he also did environmental photography as well as photographs of new products and house interiors in addition to boudoir photography.) 

I did google and facebook searches and nothing came up.  One other note -- I did a who is search and found a street address for him in a town near his former studio.  However, I called information and was told there is no one by his name at that address.

Naturally, this whole thing sounds very suspicious to me -- not to mention very creepy.   All sorts of horrible scenarios have gone through my mind (he is in legal trouble; he sold his previous models' photos to web sites, etc.)  I admittedly know very little about your business, so I am asking does this type of thing happen often with photographers.  Are many just "fly by nighters?  His ex-model that I spoke with told me I am likely over-thinking this.  She said he probably just quit the business, got another job and likely moved.  She again stressed that he was always a professional with her.  So do  you think I am over-reeacting?

My main questions -- other than how common this is in your business -- are: 1) what do most boudoir photographers do with their archived photos if they leave the business -- do they destroy them or do they continue to keep them, or do some actually sell them? and 2) should I have expected him to contact me when he left the business to ask me what I wanted him to do with the photos of my wife.  A school photographer who once took school pix of my kids retired and asked me if I wanted to buy the original art.  Should I have expected this boudoir photographer to do the same?

In sum, my wife and I are both anxious as to whose hands those pictures are in now.  I am preoccupied with this as we put our absolute  trust in this photographer that her pictures would not end up on the Internet.  He gave me his word.  I am really sorry I ever had them done.

One other note -- he was registered with modelmayhem and his modelmayhem site says he last checked in in Oct. 2012, for whatever that is worth.

I truly appreciate any feedback from professionals.  Thanks very much.


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## Gavjenks (Jul 14, 2013)

I see no reason why he would destroy the photos, unless that was explicitly agreed upon. Photographers aren't generally in the habit of destroying their work willy nilly.

As for what he can do with them, that depends on the model release you signed. If the document specified that the images were to be kept locked or encrypted except upon your request to obtain more prints or whatever, then that is what he is legally obligated to do.  If the document said they have to be destroyed after some date, then that is what he is obligated to do. If you didn't sign a release, then it would be whatever you agreed to by oral agreement, although that is of course difficult to establish.  If you didn't have a written OR oral agreement about what he can do with the photos, then it is a bit up in the air what he could do with them.

If the photos paint you in a slanderous light, then he couldn't even post them theoretically, although that would be a difficult argument to make since you were obviously aware of the camera and consenting to be photographed, etc. If you can't argue that they are slanderous, then he could post them on his portfolio if he wanted to, or potentially maybe sell them even, although very few places would buy any racy photos for any amount of real money without a model release that explicitly clears them of any legal liability.

It primarily comes down to your model release document, and what it said.




Now, having said all that, I wouldn't really worry particularly if I were you. If his references STILL vouch for him and seem legit even after he disappeared, then it is very unlikely that they were planted stooges or anything (otherwise they would have disappeared too).  So that + him seeming professional at the time + him having sent you more prints, etc. all adds up to him sounding like a perfectly legit, normal, photographer who happens to have just quit the business.  If so, then there would be no reason at all to assume that he would just suddenly become all immoral and unprofessional out of the blue and start selling his boudoir shots for money or anything crazy like that.

And if you have a document that says he can't, then even more so (not only would he be going against what seems to be his established personality, but he would get pennies for them without legal liability release, and he would be opening himself up to potential lawsuits, etc.  Not worth it, even if pretty desperate)


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## gsgary (Jul 14, 2013)

He will perv on them for the rest of his life


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## Steve5D (Jul 14, 2013)

A lot can change in eight years.

The fact that he's no longer at an old address means little; the same with his phone number. People change careers. People move. Life happens. 

I wouldn't stress about it. The photos are probably buried on some hard drive in a box somewhere, and they will likely never see the light of day. Hell, the guy could be in box in the ground for all you know.

Honestly, and I don't mean to judge, but it seems pretty silly for you to be preoccupied with this _now _when you found all of this out_ five years ago_.

Go have a Coke and a smile and enjoy your summer...


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## Steve5D (Jul 14, 2013)

gsgary said:


> He will perv on them for the rest of his life



That made me laugh...


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## molested_cow (Jul 14, 2013)

If you are THAT concerned, hire a PI to track him down. Otherwise I don't think there's much to worry about. The only thing may be that someone else finds the photos and think it's ok to put them on the internet or something. I guess my point is I don't think he's the one you should be worried about as long as he still have possession of the photos.


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## paigew (Jul 14, 2013)

dude...I think you seriously need to chill out. So he isn't in the 'biz' anymore! So what!!! I seriously doubt he gives a crap about your wife's photos...unless she is famous...is she??


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## Steve5D (Jul 14, 2013)

molested_cow said:


> If you are THAT concerned, hire a PI to track him down.



I had that thought, as well.

We're talking about something that the OP found out five years ago, though. I honestly think it's time to stop worrying. If his wife was "mostly naked", the odds are slim to none that anyone would pay for the photos, regardless of how hot she might be...


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## andywag (Jul 14, 2013)

*"Naturally, this whole thing sounds very suspicious to me -- not to mention very creepy."*

Why "naturally". Have you never moved house? Have you never changed your phone etc.
Many people do so.

Have you got any reason to believe, after this amount of time and having assurances from others that dealt with him, that suddenly your photos will end up on the www??

NO is the answer. Let it go. He has moved away or given up the business.


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## runnah (Jul 14, 2013)

often at lot can be gained by posting the photos in question.


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## Buckster (Jul 14, 2013)

A sad fact of the photography business is that most photographers don't make much money.  Most of them also aren't great at understanding the financial aspect of their business, and couldn't even tell you what their cost of doing business is.  They start out liking to shoot photos, then decide to start up a side business to do what they love, then decide to go full time with it and quit their regular job to "pursue their dream" of being a photographer, THEN they find out over time just how tough it is to actually make a living as one.  As a result, business failure amongst photographers is very high, and they frequently drop out and move back to working a "regular" job where they can keep a roof over their heads and feed their families.

It's pretty easy to surmise that's what happened to the photographer in question.  Moving could simply be explained as an extension of a failed business, where in the end he needed to cut his expenses drastically, forcing him into a cheaper living space.  Financial struggles may even have caused enough stress to lead to divorce, and that can lead to both parties finding smaller, cheaper residences as well.  Business phone numbers get disconnected and there's also been a trend over the past several years for folks to give up wall phone service altogether, since we all carry cell phones with us everywhere we go anyway.

In short, his "disappearance" is probably not nefarious at all.

As to what has or possibly could or might or will happen with your wife's photos, it's a legal matter entirely, and depends solely on the contract terms between the parties involved.  In most cases, a photographer retains unlimited rights to copy, produce, and sell and otherwise distribute any and all of their work in any way they like.  That may not be the case with you folks, depending on what's written in your contract with that photographer.

My gut tells me you have nothing to worry about, but the reality is that unless your contract prohibits the photographer from distributing the photos to anyone other than yourselves, they could legally end up anywhere, and there's probably not much you could do about it.


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## imagemaker46 (Jul 14, 2013)

Chances are he simply went out of business and has a bunch of negs sitting in a file somewhere that will never see the light of day again.  Unless your wife is of some great importance to the rest of the world where the photographer could make money off the pictures, I wouldn't be concerned about them turning up online anywhere.

Chalk this one up to having boudoir pictures done and not working out a deal with the photographer to get all the negs  as part of the original photo shoot.  It may have cost more, but it would have given both you and your wife peace of mind.  I wouldn't worry about it.


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## flow (Jul 14, 2013)

Someone gave you an explanation - quit because his girlfriend didn't like the instability of his income. Do you have a reason not to believe that person? Perhaps a stable income was a contingency for the girlfriend becoming a wife, and he changed careers in order to keep the relationship - that happens in every type of career. People move all the time as well (especially if relationship changes are involved). I can't imagine anyone going through their professional files to notify every past client of a move or 'going out of business'.

Even if he did sell or release them, unless he has a specific contact to people important to you, they may never see them. (How much time do you spend looking for embarrassing photos of your acquaintances?) If he DOES have that contact, you'll get the blackmail note before he sends out the pictures  . The only way a general release/internet posting would be a problem is if you or your wife is particularly well-known. Utter worst case, as I see it, is someone sees them and you have to say "Yes, I like how MY WIFE looks naked, but why are YOU looking at them?" ... very unlikely, but still not all that bad.


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## KmH (Jul 14, 2013)

Buckster said pretty much what I would have said.

If there was one, I wonder if you still have a copy of the contract.
By the way - The school photographer wasn't doing you any favors, the school photographer was making a final try at making some money.


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## Derrel (Jul 14, 2013)

"*Paranoia do destroy ya.*"

Remember that lyric???


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## e.rose (Jul 14, 2013)

1.  We do whatever we want with them.  Some of us archive forever, some of us purge images after a year.  Those of us running a legal business would never sell them to a 3rd party (at least not without explicit permission.

2. Expect? No.  There's no rule that says we have to sell the rest of the images back to a client when we quit.


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## kathyt (Jul 14, 2013)

I would not worry about them if I were you. If they haven't surfaced yet then I think your in the clear. I keep my files for so long and then I dump them. (Except my favorites) This is stated in my contract to my clients. I keep mine on an external hard drive and through an online backup service.


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## bogeyguy (Jul 14, 2013)

This post is useless without photos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## orljustin (Jul 14, 2013)

https://gs1.wac.edgecastcdn.net/8019B6/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1ordnCQxm1qa0aeyo1_500.png


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## gsgary (Jul 14, 2013)

Thats very strange one post and he's not been back


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## tirediron (Jul 14, 2013)

gsgary said:


> Thats very strange one post and he's not been back


Full moon?


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## snowbear (Jul 14, 2013)

Maybe working lots of overtime to get $$$ to buy the copyrights?


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## penman53 (Jul 14, 2013)

Thanks all for the replies.  It does ease my mind quite a bit since I know nothing about your business.      

I do want to clarify one thing though.  I didn't say the guy had vanished 5 years ago.  I was able to reach him 5 years ago and he did some reprints for me.  It wasn't until this past December of 2012 that I learned he had vanished.

To answer a few questions, no my wife isn't famous, at least not outside our region where she is somewhat well known in the local business community -- one reason why we had the photos taken by an out of state photographer.  

Some asked about  the original model release.  I dug it out and not knowing what is standard in your business, I do wonder a bit about how many rights we gave him.  The model release mostly discusses the photographer's rights, although one clause does read, "Photographer has no usage or reproduction rights." I'm not sure how absolute that is or what it even means -- no usage or reproduction rights to do what?  

It also reads in part, "These assigned rights will and do extend to the photographer, his licensees and/or assignees, successors in interest, legal representatives, heirs, anyone acting in his behalf or in the behalf of his licensees and/or assignees."  That is potentially a lot of people.  The phrase "successors in interest" does concern me a bit -- does that mean if he sells his business the new owner has possession and rights to those photos? However, in the section about what the model gets (# of proofs, # of 8x10's etc.) it also reads, "There are no transfer of rights or resale" but I am not sure if that refers to the model or the photographer.  

There is one other clause I don't fully understand.  It reads that the model, "waives any claim he/she may have based on usage of the photographs or works derived there from, including but not limited to claims of invasion of privacy or libel."  Does that mean we have no legal recourse if he were to sell them?  I honestly have no idea whether these types of clauses are standard in this type of contract.

  He did give me his verbal word that the photographs would never be released on his web site, any other web site or to any other person.  I put a lot of trust in a man I don't know.

I think what makes me feel most relieved is the comment that is hardly any monetary worth for these types of photos.  Money is the root of .. well, you know.  

As for those of you who said I need to post the pictures for you to make an informed decision, you are exactly right.  How foolish of me not to do so.


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## Tailgunner (Jul 14, 2013)

Probably sold them to some Porn site...


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## penman53 (Jul 15, 2013)

Yeah, I had a feeling.


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