# Help with shooting a gymnastics meets



## hippychickmom (Feb 1, 2016)

I usually shoot with a 70-200 Canon f2.8 lens with a canon t3i and I use the AF and I shoot on 3200 or high for speed 

My photos come out blurry  
I am uploading a photo to see if I can get some help on maybe better settings and such.

sorry my file was too big I will see about making it small and uploading


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## astroNikon (Feb 1, 2016)

Blurriness would be from a couple items
- Shutter Speed too low
- Aperture setting to small for being up close
- movement in holding the camera plus above

Can you be more specific on your AF setting ?
There's usually an AF Area and Mode settings

Normally to Correct, in low light
- use a larger opening aperture to compensate higher shutter speed.  But not too much to cause Depth of Field issues
- increase ISO to allow a higher Shutter speed at an appropriate Aperture setting.

but all this needs to make sure the AF system is the optimal setting for the environment.


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## hippychickmom (Feb 1, 2016)

Here is a photo , I will add more info in a min


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## hippychickmom (Feb 1, 2016)




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## Designer (Feb 1, 2016)

Does your camera or your editing software indicate the exact point of focus?  My system is Nikon, so I cannot see the focus point in Canon.  

I also could not read the EXIF, but just looking at the photo, it looks as if your camera may have focused on one of the stantions holding the rope.  

Lots of motion blur, so I'm assuming a slow shutter speed as well.

BTW: is there some kind of filter on the front of your lens?


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## hippychickmom (Feb 1, 2016)

Designer said:


> Does your camera or your editing software indicate the exact point of focus?  My system is Nikon, so I cannot see the focus point in Canon.
> 
> I also could not read the EXIF, but just looking at the photo, it looks as if your camera may have focused on one of the stantions holding the rope.
> 
> ...


No filter,


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## hippychickmom (Feb 1, 2016)

Here is the photo info using iPhoto , I do have photoshop and light room but  I am still not sure how to use them since I used to use PSP or PSE and they are def diff.


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## Designer (Feb 1, 2016)

My editing software (Aperture) will indicate the point of focus, and though I don't know anything about Lightroom, I am guessing that it will, or maybe your camera LCD. 

With your aperture wide open, you will have a thin DOF (or thinner than you would like). 

At 1/100 second, you can't effectively stop the motion of the flying girl, but even the spectator's face is blurred by her motion.

I think you should learn Lightroom, and I can't imagine that it would be any more difficult than Aperture.  FWIW; I chose not to use iPhoto.  For anything.


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## vintagesnaps (Feb 1, 2016)

You'll need a faster shutter speed to capture movement. For indoor gym lighting you might want to try 1/250 or 1/500 or faster would be better. (I've found that the low light in gyms might limit using as fast a shutter speed as I would like.) Maybe do some test shots and jot down what you did so later you can look at the pictures and see what worked.

The faster the shutter is moving the less time it's open and letting in light. So the camera's other settings will need to be adjusted. You'll probably need a fairly high ISO (light sensitivity). I would say at that distance not to use too large an aperture; maybe try f8 then smaller if needed to get whatever's in the scene you want to be sharp. Obviously a smaller aperture allows less light coming into the camera too. In general in sports a midrange or smaller aperture is used to get the players/participants all in focus; I usually use a larger aperture if I'm at ice/floor level getting a close up.

It's a matter of figuring out what combination of a faster shutter speed and which aperture and ISO works best in this gym. I've found it to be different in various arenas, etc.

I find doing sports that even if the background isn't sharply in focus it can still be noticeable. Try to go early and figure out where you can sit that the background will look OK (since gyms seem to often have chairs and cans etc. sitting around!).

Make sure your camera is straight, think about when you're framing shots what's in that rectangle of a viewfinder - if something is part of the action or scene, keep it in the frame, if something is not part of the picture, keep it out of the frame - try to not chop things off along the sides/bottom of the frame.

It may take some practice to figure out what settings work best and to get the hang of shooting a sport. If you know the routine it can help to anticipate what's coming next to know when you might get a good shot.


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## SCraig (Feb 1, 2016)

There is nothing in that photograph that is in sharp focus, however there is some vertical motion blur on things that were fixed (specifically the stanchions holding the rope) indicating that you moved the camera while the shutter was open.  At 47mm 1/100 second should have worked so my suggestion would be to work on your technique and don't slap the shutter release.


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## astroNikon (Feb 1, 2016)

With that slow shutter speed I also think that you moved the camera up/down
Looking at the back of the chair to the right (the judges) I think I see double in a vertical plane.

The shutter is too slow for gymnastics.  You need to increase it and with you at f/2.8 you need to increase the ISO.  it will increase noise but I think getting closer to the correct shutter speed will be better.


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## hippychickmom (Feb 1, 2016)

Thank you , I think the shutter makes a diff , Ill try that at the next meet.
I had it set to app priority and I noticed the next photo, literally seconds after was shot at 125 and was a little better.  I will try and post that , I need to make the file smaller to upload it tho.


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## astroNikon (Feb 1, 2016)

hippychickmom said:


> View attachment 115166
> 
> Here is the photo info using iPhoto , I do have photoshop and light room but  I am still not sure how to use them since I used to use PSP or PSE and they are def diff.


btw, your LCD image
this shows auto ISO
and "matrix" metering (nikon speak) 
but it doesn't show the Focus Mode ... this is more about it for the T3i
you still need a faster shutter speed.


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## imagemaker46 (Feb 1, 2016)

In that gym, I would suggest that you just set the camera at 3200iso, 500th, 2.8 and if you can, shoot closer to the athletes.  Get away from using any of the auto modes on the camera, except the autofocus.  The settings I gave you, will work.

If you have a 70-200 2.8, use it.


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## hippychickmom (Feb 1, 2016)




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## hippychickmom (Feb 1, 2016)

Here is one I 





imagemaker46 said:


> In that gym, I would suggest that you just set the camera at 3200iso, 500th, 2.8 and if you can, shoot closer to the athletes.  Get away from using any of the auto modes on the camera, except the autofocus.  The settings I gave you, will work.
> 
> If you have a 70-200 2.8, use it.


I used it for all events but floor cause it was too close


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## Didereaux (Feb 1, 2016)

You're going to have to learn to pan your shots with that camera.  Otherwise a minimum of 1/5ooth for a shutter speed in order to stop the action/blur.  Your camera is maxed out at 3200 as far as usable ISO goes.  So practice panning!!!!    Then you will probably get an acceptable number of shots at 1/200.  The background will of course be blurred but your subject should be sharp.  You also will have to use spot focus or at best the 5 point auto focus settings.

Set your camera up for back button focus or if youo are comfortable then use the AF button, and remember you must hold these down for the AI-servo to nmaintain focus on the subject.   It only requires practice.  Stand on by a street and practice on cars and bikers and such.  A short afternoons session should get you working.


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## hippychickmom (Feb 1, 2016)

Didereaux said:


> You're going to have to learn to pan your shots with that camera.  Otherwise a minimum of 1/5ooth for a shutter speed in order to stop the action/blur.  Your camera is maxed out at 3200 as far as usable ISO goes.  So practice panning!!!!    Then you will probably get an acceptable number of shots at 1/200.  The background will of course be blurred but your subject should be sharp.  You also will have to use spot focus or at best the 5 point auto focus settings.


It actually goes to 6400 , would it be best to use that over 3200?


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## hippychickmom (Feb 1, 2016)

I also have it set to al servo for the focus setting , I read in the manual that was the best for moving subjects?


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## imagemaker46 (Feb 1, 2016)

If you work yourself into a position where the backgrounds are a little cleaner, hold your camera straighter and crop the images you have it will make a huge difference. Stopping the action will require 500th-800th of a second. Shooting gymnastics in the best of conditions is a challenging sport to shoot. Shooting in a small gym where everything is packed together makes it much more difficult to isolate the gymnast from a clean background, but cleaner backgrounds are there, just takes being able to move around and see them, the window you end up with may be pretty small.


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## hippychickmom (Feb 1, 2016)

And thank you everyone I am def taking these tips to the next meet


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## imagemaker46 (Feb 1, 2016)

hippychickmom said:


> Didereaux said:
> 
> 
> > You're going to have to learn to pan your shots with that camera.  Otherwise a minimum of 1/5ooth for a shutter speed in order to stop the action/blur.  Your camera is maxed out at 3200 as far as usable ISO goes.  So practice panning!!!!    Then you will probably get an acceptable number of shots at 1/200.  The background will of course be blurred but your subject should be sharp.  You also will have to use spot focus or at best the 5 point auto focus settings.
> ...




You can try 6400 but you will end up with more noise, what it would get you is the faster shutter speeds you need.  At the skill level you are working at I wouldn't waste too many frames trying to pan the gymnasts at 200th sec.  You may get lucky on a couple, but for the most part you'll end up with a lot of deleted images.


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## Didereaux (Feb 1, 2016)

hippychickmom said:


> Didereaux said:
> 
> 
> > You're going to have to learn to pan your shots with that camera.  Otherwise a minimum of 1/5ooth for a shutter speed in order to stop the action/blur.  Your camera is maxed out at 3200 as far as usable ISO goes.  So practice panning!!!!    Then you will probably get an acceptable number of shots at 1/200.  The background will of course be blurred but your subject should be sharp.  You also will have to use spot focus or at best the 5 point auto focus settings.
> ...




On that camera 6400 is not a usable ISO,  3200 is barely so.    Re-read what I just wrote in my previous comment.  Do that and then come backk with some examples...there is NO easy lazy solution for you other than spend a LARGE amount of cash for a new body.  Why do that until you master the techniques used by ALL the good sports/action photographers?  Just buckle down and do the work.  You have the equipment, you just don't have the skills yet.


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## imagemaker46 (Feb 1, 2016)

hippychickmom said:


> I also have it set to al servo for the focus setting , I read in the manual that was the best for moving subjects?


Yes, it is the best choice.


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## Didereaux (Feb 1, 2016)

imagemaker46 said:


> hippychickmom said:
> 
> 
> > Didereaux said:
> ...




DUH!  That is why you practice!  What I described is easily learnable in a couple or three hours.  It is a technique even the top sports. action photographers use.  Maybe you do not want to spend the effort, but why advise someone else that it won't work?


Didereaux said:


> hippychickmom said:
> 
> 
> > Didereaux said:
> ...




There IS one more thing that will help greatly.  Get a good flash (I recommend the Yongnuo 600 @ around $100 it is the equal of the Canon 600EX).  If necessary to shoot beyond 40-50 ft put on a Better Beamer flash extend (~$40)  dead simple and it will stop the motion easily at 1/200 or even faster using its hi-speed synch.

DO not be concerned that it is too complicated.  JUST ASK.  There a dozen or more photographers on here that can explain it simply and easily.


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## imagemaker46 (Feb 1, 2016)

Here are a couple of shots from last year. Shot in a high school gym.


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## imagemaker46 (Feb 1, 2016)

Didereaux said:


> imagemaker46 said:
> 
> 
> > hippychickmom said:
> ...



First of all I shoot sports for a living, I have for a very long time, including gymnastics, from kids to the Olympics. Second of all you are never allowed to use flash at any gymnastics meets anywhere.  Nothing like blinding a gymnast on the beam, or better yet, the bars.


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## Didereaux (Feb 1, 2016)

imagemaker46 said:


> Here are a couple of shots from last year. Shot in a high school gym.




..and your point is that using a much better camera under different conditions answers the OPs question.  BTW just what camera, lens and settings are you using on those shots?
THe idea is to try and find answers to an OPs question that involves using the equipment they have or can easily get.  Anyone can solve all problems with $10K +


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## imagemaker46 (Feb 1, 2016)

Canon 1Dx 300 2.8


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## Didereaux (Feb 1, 2016)

imagemaker46 said:


> Canon 1Dx 300 2.8



LOL ROFLMAO  and that equates to a T2-3i consumer with a 7-0-200mm lens(albeit that is one damn good lens).   Go away you shouldn't be allowed near po' folk!


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## imagemaker46 (Feb 1, 2016)

Here you go. I shot these with a Canon t2i, 300mm with a 1.4 at the Sochi Paralympics, it was to prove a point to people like you, that believe it's the gear They were shot on single frame.    It's not the camera, it's the person holding it. Have you ever shot sports?


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## Didereaux (Feb 1, 2016)

Try these a rather small sampling
Picasa Web Albums - Monte Phillips - Action & Sports

and why didn't you post this last set instead of you 1Dx ones.?  That was a rhetorical question. (Although be it noted that you used a top end prime lens under outdoors HIGH lighting.)   I am ending our little off topic foray.


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## imagemaker46 (Feb 1, 2016)

Didereaux said:


> Try these a rather small sampling
> Picasa Web Albums - Monte Phillips - Action & Sports
> 
> and why didn't you post this last set instead of you 1Dx ones.?  that was a rhetorical question.  I am ending our little off topic foray.



I posted gymnastics images as an example, based on the thread being on gymnastics.  Your attitude towards someone that has more skill and experience in covering sports carries little weight. Assuming you can use a flash with gymnasts proved your lack of experience in working these types of situations.  While suggesting panning as the way to eliminate backgrounds is something that can work with objects travelling horizontal is a good idea, but it takes a lot of time and practice to get it right. The gymnasts aren't travelling fast enough and at 200th of a second you are still going to have a background and a blurred gymnast.  I did take a look at your sports images, you shoot nice birds and flowers.


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## imagemaker46 (Feb 1, 2016)

Apologies to the OP for this off topic highjack of your thread.


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## Dave442 (Feb 1, 2016)

If you are at f/2.8 and ISO 3200 right now on that camera and can only get to 1/200th due to the lighting, then I would go for the shots of the gymnast when at a peak of their movement. There may still be a hand or foot with some blur, but it should give a higher keeper rate. 

It is also good to keep working on catching the leaps and other moves, at some point you will have a location with better lighting or better equipment and you want to be past the practice stage when that happens.  

If you can get to 1/500th by going to the very top ISO and then if the only problem with the shot is noise then your doing pretty good.


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## hippychickmom (Feb 1, 2016)

yes Definitely NO FLASH , my daughter has competed for 6 years, I just have recently gotten better lenses and have started learning them better.


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## hippychickmom (Feb 1, 2016)

and I will be shooting JO and high school gymnastics, my oldest is in High school team and I have a lever 6/7 gymnast and a preteam so by the time I actually get good shots the younger one will be competing haha! 
Thank you for the feedback , I am defiantly using all the advise and I do like to see sports photos since it does help , someday  I would love to get a full frame camera but for now We have 4 kids so I have to use what I have .


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## astroNikon (Feb 1, 2016)

I have 4 kids too, and I shoot a lot of soccer both outside (day & evening, with and without stadium lights) and indoors and some (day & evening ) baseball.

But I use a FF camera for that ..the advantages were numerous with a FF I upgraded from a Nikon d7000 DX crop body.  I also use older Nikon AF-D lenses which saved far more $$ than getting a good Nikon DX camera and the respective more modern AF-S 70-200/2.8 lens + other lenses.

It's a lot of fun capturing those moments for your family and other families.


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## hippychickmom (Feb 1, 2016)

I got better shots of my older at same settings 
Different gym since it was a high school meet vs JO


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## hippychickmom (Feb 1, 2016)




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## astroNikon (Feb 1, 2016)

The first one she is in a position which is usually paused (from what little I know of gymnastics) so a slower shutter speed can work.

second isn't she jumping straight up?  once again not as fast of a movement as running & jumping?

So picking (as mentioned earlier in someone else's post)  your timing helps in the photo clarity.


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## hippychickmom (Feb 1, 2016)

thanks, yea I 


astroNikon said:


> The first one she is in a position which is usually paused (from what little I know of gymnastics) so a slower shutter speed can work.
> 
> second isn't she jumping straight up?  once again not as fast of a movement as running & jumping?
> 
> So picking (as mentioned earlier in someone else's post)  your timing helps in the photo clarity.


 thanks, yes I knew she was more still, just trying to give any examples to better keep helping me, I really appreciate the help. I am excited for the next meets now to put the ideas at work. Maybe Ill even put my 7 yr old to work at home so I can play with her doing gymnastics. Yea not the same but at least I can just play and learn more, I do believe practice makes perfect .


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## imagemaker46 (Feb 1, 2016)

looking at the background on the second one, that is going to be a challenge. For the beam if you can shoot it straight on and not from the side, tighter on the gymnast it will help with the backgrounds. Always keep the horizon lines straight as well.  It's all practice and like I said, it's a really difficult sport to shoot.  Take a look at this web site, the photographer has been a very good friend of mine for decades and is the best gymnastics photographer in the world. langsleysports.com  I've learned a lot from her.


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## hippychickmom (Feb 1, 2016)

The second one that was the only angle I could get unless I was on the floor , it was roped off and stand seating only, Thank you for the link, I looked at your photos and will def look at these as well.


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## 12sndsgood (Feb 4, 2016)

Angles are hard. I shoot gymnastics now and even with floor access and being 15' from the gymnasts i can't usually get a direct side shots. Thats generally where the judges are for beams.  Floor its a crapshoot depending on the routine. Gymnastics is a very tough shooting envirement.  Im generally around 3000-4000 with my iso. Around a 3.0 apature and if beams im generally at around 1\250th a sec and floor im around 1\500 a sec. A lot more speed and movement with floor.  A lot of it is timing to get a good shot. Learn the routine so you know exactly when to fire.  Dont just shoot your kid. Shoot plenty of kids before hand so your loosened up and have your timing down. My first session of an event usually feels like a train wreck compared to the second session.

And yeah ive never been to an event that allows flash. They are very strict in that.

Get as close as you can and zoom as much as your camera and settings will allow to stay focused on the gymnast.


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