# Client Proofing - Projection vs. Printed vs. Web?



## njw1224 (Jul 15, 2010)

I have a portrait studio and currently do web proofing of portrait sessions. Previously I printed low-resolution proofs clients could take home and view. I haven't really seen a difference in the size of my sales between the two. But it seems a lot of studios are doing proofing sessions in the studio, where the client has to come back and view their proofs at the studio (projected on a big screen) and no images actually ever leave the studio until the order is placed. 

I would like to hear feedback from those of you who have tried different methods of proofing and what effect you have seen on the size of your orders with each method. Now I've already read all of the great benefits of projection proofing, so please don't respond just to tell me the benefits (like being able to show images big to spur more wall-portrait sales). What I really want to know is the bottom-line dollar difference. In-studio proofing appointments will add 2 or 3x the time commitment to a client after the shoot, so I want to know if it makes financial sense to do this before I make the switch. I especially want to hear from those who have proofed via prints or web, then went to studio projection-proofing to see what your experience has been. 

I'd also like to hear about people's experiences with the lack of convenience of the client having to come back to the studio to sit through a proofing session. Obviously web proofing and some sort of take-home printed proof allows the client to look at the images as much as they want at their convenience. Thanks!


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## c.cloudwalker (Jul 15, 2010)

I don't get the projection part but I absolutely get the part about getting them back to be with you. How else are you going to influence the sales?


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## njw1224 (Jul 15, 2010)

c.cloudwalker said:


> How else are you going to influence the sales?



I understand the proposed psychology of getting the client back in the studio to view proofs. But as I said, I'm asking for experiences people have actually had and bottom line differences they've seen in the various proofing methods. Just having the client in the studio to influence the sale doesn't automatically mean larger sales. For example, one could argue that putting the proofs online can expose the images to more interested parties ( for example, family that lives out of town), and potentially garner more orders - thus increasing the bottom line.


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## KmH (Jul 15, 2010)

In-person proofing has repeatedly been shown to have a substantial, positive influence on sales.

I have never done it any other way, myself. 

In-person proofing doesn't have to be done by projection, but *you* need to be there, and you need to have samples of your products to show too.

Of course, some salesmanship skills are also very helpful. The public library will have plenty of books to help polish sales skills.

I know other photographers that have quadrupled sales by switching to in-person proofing.


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## njw1224 (Jul 15, 2010)

KmH said:


> I have never done it any other way, myself.
> 
> I know other photographers that have quadrupled sales by switching to in-person proofing.



Thanks guys. But I'd still like to hear from some folks who have done it one way, then switched to another - like from web proofing to in-person proofing - to hear some first-hand results. I'm always a bit leery when I hear statistics like "I heard so-and-so quadrupled their sales...".  I've heard success stories like that, then seen the same studio close their doors a year or two later. Second-hand information can be misleading at times.


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## KmH (Jul 15, 2010)

To be clear.

I did give you first hand information.


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## Alpha (Jul 15, 2010)

You're most likely to make a sale in person. This is both intuitively and empirically true. 

What's also empirically true is that most people will ask for advice but go with their instinct even the advice they get is contrary to it.


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## njw1224 (Jul 16, 2010)

KmH said:


> To be clear.
> 
> I did give you first hand information.



Not that I want to argue, but unless you actually quadrupled your own sales using in-person proofing, then the info is not first-hand. Anything you hear from someone else that's not your own experience is second-hand info unless you somehow had direct access to their financial records to be sure what you were being told is true.


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## c.cloudwalker (Jul 16, 2010)

njw1224 said:


> I understand the proposed psychology of getting the client back in the studio to view proofs.



Good salespeople are people who have a great understanding of psychology whether they know it or not. Sales *is* Psychology 101.

Get a couple books on salesmanship from your library and I trust you will get that you don't need the "I'd still like to hear from some folks who have done it one way, then switched to another."

If you wait long enough, I'm sure you will get someone to say the opposite but if you ask them to prove it with their sales records, I think you'll wait forever to get those. If they were to actually study their records, they would probably realize they were wrong.

When you are sitting with your customers while they order they can't just click away...

As far as the extra sales, what kind of photography are you talking about? If you are talking about wedding photo, yes, you might get a few more sales but if we are ever able to actually quantify those, I think you'd be very disappointed.

A wedding is not very exciting outside of the actual event except for the couple and their parents. How many photos do you have of your friends' weddings? Not including my sister, my brother and my kids, I have fewer than a dozen. Not one friend's wedding in my scrapbook has more than one photo (most don't have any) and I have never bought one from the official photog. And neither my sister nor my brother or my kids had pro photogs...

All that to say that you want to concentrate your efforts on the immediate family, ie B&G and their parents.

Hope that helps.


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## Eco (Jul 16, 2010)

c.cloudwalker said:


> Sales *is* Psychology 101.



You must of had a really good Psychology class then!  400 level psych classes, interrogation classes, sales training books, sales training CD's/DVD's, sales seminars, on-line training and the list goes on and on plus year of trial and error made me a salesperson.  

IMO, you can have all of the props (first post) in the world and if you can't ask for the sale you will end up with props and an empty bank account.


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## c.cloudwalker (Jul 16, 2010)

Eco said:


> c.cloudwalker said:
> 
> 
> > Sales *is* Psychology 101.
> ...



Well, yes, you do have to want to sell. If not...


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## njw1224 (Jul 16, 2010)

Well, like many forum questions, this one has gone off on a tangent (or two). All I'm really asking is to hear from photographers who have clients come back for in-person proofing sessions, but used to proof another way. I want to hear feedback about how the various proofing methods have impacted sales. Sure, I understand that having face-to-face proofing with a client allows you to work the sale better. I get that that's part of it. But unless you personally have proofed using a few different methods and can offer some good feedback regarding the methods, please don't muddy the waters with other comments. Thanks.


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## Eco (Jul 16, 2010)

Look at the mud as bumping your thread so more people see it....or look at them as mud and you have a thread that is buried without a chance of someone seeing it with the exact answer you are looking for.  

Good luck....


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## KmH (Jul 17, 2010)

njw1224 said:


> KmH said:
> 
> 
> > To be clear.
> ...


You're making invalid assumptions.

I said "*I KNOW",* not I was told, or that I heard.

Perhaps you could hire a sales consultant.


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## njw1224 (Jul 18, 2010)

KmH said:


> I said "*I KNOW",* not I was told, or that I heard.
> 
> Perhaps you could hire a sales consultant.



Great! If those photographers are members of this forum, I'd really love to hear from them. Sounds like they could give me the insight I'm looking for.


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## smokinphoto (Jul 24, 2010)

If you&#8217;re an ethical and honest businessperson, trust me when I say that showing and selling your photos is far less stressful than most beginning professional photographers believe it to be. 
You don&#8217;t have to dress things up or make your art out to be something it&#8217;s not; you don&#8217;t have to hard sell or upsell or practice salesman chicanery; you don&#8217;t have to do anything that makes you squirm in your seat or leaves you reaching for the Pepto-Bismol. 
Your goal when proofing photos for clients and &#8220;selling&#8221; them files, prints, and products, is simple and noble: do everything within your power to help your client get the most long-term enjoyment possible while staying within their budget.
You don&#8217;t have to try and convince your client to buy something they don&#8217;t want, but you do want to expose them to options they may not have considered.


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## smokinphoto (Jul 24, 2010)

Here is  a interesting article just on this subject , which talks about it at a great length. Hope you find this useful.

Your first photo proofing and sales session &#8211; Your First Customer Series, Part 9 | The Part Time Photographer


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## Christie Photo (Jul 24, 2010)

I'm not a portrait-heavy studio these days, but I can tell you what I've realized.

I was younger and more ambitious...  I need to rekindle.

We always showed paper proofs.  I taught my sales people the importance of building enthusiasm at every opportunity, from the initial call to book, to the clothing consult, to the day of the session, when delivering previews (we sent them home for a week), on the day of ordering, right on through to delivery.  It's crucial to keep this process flowing.

These days, I don't do much portraiture.  About a year after switching to digital, I went with online proofing.  Just proofing... no online sales. I IMMEDIATELY saw a problem.  The orders came slower...  sometimes MUCH slower.

With paper previews, we always required them back within a week.  This was explained to the client when they came in.  We also took a $100 deposit when the previews left the studio.  This kept the flow going and the enthusiasm high.

So while I save on printing these days, I know it's costing me on orders.  I can't tell you exactly how much.  I do so little portraiture, I just don't concern myself with it.  But I can assure you the orders are smaller.  There has been at least one occasion when no order came at all and I just locked the web gallery after 3 or 4 weeks, never hearing from the client again.

Also, I think I lost one of my best marketing tools...  that proof book.  It went everywhere...  to school, to work, to the relatives.  Good advertising.  And I used to offer it for sale, starting at $80 and discounting it further and further with ascending print order totals until it was free at the $300 mark.

Let me know if you have any questions.

-Pete


BTW...  that proof book was an 8-open Art Leather folio with 8 4x5 proofs.  I doubt I could get by with showing 8 proofs these days.


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## c.cloudwalker (Jul 24, 2010)

Christie Photo said:


> BTW...  that proof book was an 8-open Art Leather folio with 8 4x5 proofs.  I doubt I could get by with showing 8 proofs these days.



I just had to lol at that. How true. Today's retail photogs have created a hell for themselves. When I did weddings, I averaged 2-300 hundred proofs with 300 being quite rare and I didn't spend much time on those. The films were sent to a lab, I got them back a few days later, the customers picked up the proofs along with a mock up of what album I suggested with B&W copies done on a copy machine.

All told, I never spend more than 2 days on a wedding including the event itself.

Anyway, to get back to the OP's question and playing devil's advocate, how can you say for sure that the decline in orders is due to the online proofing. How can you tell it is not just the economy?

I tend to agree with you but it is not so easily quantifiable as the OP seems to want it to be.


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## Christie Photo (Jul 26, 2010)

c.cloudwalker said:


> ..how can you say for sure that the decline in orders is due to the online proofing. How can you tell it is not just the economy?



Is was so very obvious.  Instantaneous.  And it began before the real financial crap hit the fan.

So now I'm considering an entirely different approach for me...  here in my studio.  

I worked for another photographer 1978&#8211;1983.  During the last year there, we began showing wedding proofs via slide show.  We did it right too, with two projectors and a dissolve unit all set to music.  That first one was a lot of work.  And the initial investment in equipment was considerable.  Pro labs had just started offering proofing on 35mm slides, so that part was easy.  Each slide came numbered to match each neg.  Even though most weddings totalled only 180 proofs or so, it required some thought and organization, alternating between the slide trays, programing the unit with a proper delay and saving the whole thing to cassette tape.

The reasoning was: gather all the principal family at once, make them comfortable...  a bit of wine...  whatever.  Make the whole thing an experience.  Adding music is always powerful.  The impact was amazing.  And... once that image faded into the next, it was gone.  No paper proof to buy.  So if they wanted to have it, they had to order a print.  We saw a 20% increase on the first wedding.  Plus, it was a huge image builder.  No other studio was doing this, using state-of-the-art equipment.

Recently (27 years later), I was chatting with that photographer.  He continues to show proofs this way.  Of course the slides are gone, but the concept is the same.  He didn't really say, but I got the idea that this is the only way he shows proofs.  It makes a lot of sense.

So now, I'm considering a large, flat-panel monitor or a projector for proofing.  I think I want to show the image actual size.  I gotta tell ya, an 8x10 looks pretty puny after seeing a 20x24 or 24x30.

And yes....  I would be there to help my client with their order.  I can't imagine not.  In my mind, it's a level of service I must provide.  There are always so many questions when taking an order.  I feel I would be abandoning the clients if they had to order online.

-Pete


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## James Taylor (Jul 31, 2010)

smokinphoto said:


> Here is  a interesting article just on this subject , which talks about it at a great length. Hope you find this useful.
> 
> Your first photo proofing and sales session  Your First Customer Series, Part 9 | The Part Time Photographer



Thank you smokinphoto for the quote from my blog and the link! I appreciate your readership.

To talk on your original question njw1224, I'll be honest in saying I don't know the exact amount my sales went up when I moved from web-only proofing to studio proofing - it was a gradual shift and I still do web proofing for certain clients, in certain situations.

I don't think it's entirely correct to say in-person proofing is far and away better than web proofing in all circumstances. Online galleries are a tool, just as a projection screen and projector are, or a laptop for mobile proofing.

Did my per-client averages go up when I went from web-only to in-person? For most clients, unequivocally yes.

One could argue the why's all day: yes, you have a better opportunity to "sell" and build rapport, to take charge of the customer experience, to build excitement; yes, you can display images wall-sized instead of low-res on your client's uncalibrated monitor; yes, you can make suggestions and guide their sales experience.

The latter I think is where the real value lies in in-person proofing. Every interaction with a client is a touchpoint, an opportunity to make your client's experience with your business a more enjoyable and memorable one. In-person proofing, in a big home studio with projected images and wine or in a Starbucks on your MacBook Pro, gives you the opportunity to build rapport and continue to serve your client's best interests.

In a "sales" session, you're not trying to "sell" a client anything, you're trying to help them - you're still the expert, their guide. Expose them to wall hangings, albums, wall clings, gallery wraps, and other products they may not have known about. Ask questions, find out if they have company over much, what room they host visitors in, where they have open wall space for possible wall art or groupings, if the photos are to send to grandparents, if they want lots of digital files to post to Facebook... It's hard to serve your clients' needs through a web gallery where you have no opportunity to explore those needs.

My standard rule is I proof in person. If a client wants web proofs, I ask a retainer for about half what my client average is, which they get back fully in file/print credits.

Your business factors are, as always, time and money. I don't think in-person proofing leads to a 2x or 3x time commitment per client unless you make it that way. Except with the rare chatterbox, my sales sessions last around 45 minutes. 

Do I get an extra 45 minutes worth of money out of my client for having done an in-person sales session? In my market with my clients, I certainly do.

But equally if not more important, I have an extra 45 minutes with my client to serve their needs, make a good impression, and give them more remark-able reasons to become repeat clients and to refer their friends. That is worth far more over time than the cash in hand from that one sale.

My advice would always be to test the waters, try in-person proofing for a few months, see how it goes. Pay attention to your numbers - your time invested and the extra money you make. Only then will you know if it's a better option for your client base.


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