# Second pass lith/toning - fix?



## 29neibolt (Nov 7, 2019)

hey folks,

I’m a bit unclear on the fixing process for second pass liths and toning on RC paper. After the print has been bleached, do you refix before you put it in lith developer or toner?

I’ve tried it both ways with varying results, and have seen mixed opinions online.


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## terri (Nov 7, 2019)

29neibolt said:


> hey folks,
> 
> I’m a bit unclear on the fixing process for second pass liths and toning on RC paper. After the print has been bleached, do you refix before you put it in lith developer or toner?
> 
> I’ve tried it both ways with varying results, and have seen mixed opinions online.


You've asked a loaded question!   There are many approaches to bleach and redevelopment, and those can be influenced by the paper used, the lith developer, temperature, and so on.

In very broad terms, I would suggest that after you have pulled a normally developed and fixed print out from the bleach tray, a wash is the next step.  Then slip the print into the lith developer, where you can watch in room light for your desired snatch point.  Or, get it close to the snatch point and then put it in running water, where you can slow down the final development there.  But yes, you should re-fix the final product.   I think there can be changes in the colors of your print from fixer, which can be annoying after getting that perfect result.   Try using weaker fixers, and I don't think a hardener is necessary at all for this process. 

I've not done one for awhile.  Check out Tim Rudman's lith and toning books, as well as the folks over at the formerly called APUG group.    You'll get comments from people who are likely up to date on the current favored papers, too.  RC will always be different with these processes than fiber.

Hope this helps a little.  Have fun, and I would love to see your results!


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## 29neibolt (Nov 7, 2019)

This is just what I needed to hear- thank you so much!  I actually have Tim's lith book, but I still wasn't 100% confident on if the fixing stage came between bleaching and then lith, or after the lith developer.

I've been lithing on FB paper and am hooked, was just curious as I like to take my RC print rejects and play with those in bleach/toner.



terri said:


> 29neibolt said:
> 
> 
> > hey folks,
> ...


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## terri (Nov 7, 2019)

I'm glad to have helped.   Tim's recommendations can always be played with, and he encourages play, which can sometimes lead to some confusion.  I get it!   But the fix at the end has to happen, even if in a weaker solution, or as you know the remaining silver halides will creep back in eventually and you won't have an archival print. 

I generally stick to fiber, though RC papers have improved over the years and wash faster.   I just don't have a lot of experience in these processes with RC, so take what I say with a grain of salt.   

And I think using your RC rejects to experiment on is an excellent way not to waste them, but to learn from.   Good darkroom practice.


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## 29neibolt (Nov 8, 2019)

I played around a bit last night— here’s one of the nicer ones from the reject pile. It was overexposed about a stop. I bleached to almost completion (as far as I could get it) and then lithed, briefly toned in selenium and then fixed.


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## terri (Nov 9, 2019)

Your colors are beautiful!   Another thing to recall is that you don't have to bleach to completion.   You can maintain deeper blacks by pulling sooner from the bleach tray before the lith, if you want.   

But I would call this one a success.  Whatever paper you're using responds nicely to your work flow.  Nice work!


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