# Railroad family portraits



## GlowingAmber (Nov 27, 2012)

Hey again lovely people!  I had a request for family pics on rr tracks.  It was my first time, and I took several different positions and spacing so I could look it up later. I didnt have a heads up beforehand. I know the rule of thirds, but in this case i want the tracks in the middle, right? Do i want to be able to see the vanishing point? I have the family to the side in one, and also spread across the track kinda blocking the vanishing point in another. I looked at a bunch online, but what makes a good composition? Any thoughts? :mrgreen:
oh, p.s...  i saw some where the pic is turned to make it kinda diagonal... do yall think thats terrible, like selective coloring, lol?


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## mishele (Nov 27, 2012)

Nothing says family like railroad tracks.


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## Designer (Nov 27, 2012)

Dear Glowing;  it is very difficult to visualize this without the actual picture.  There is more to composition than following some arbitrary "rules".  

I have seen very few pictures where it would improve the composition to tilt the frame, and frankly most such efforts simply make no sense.

Speaking of rules, it is against railroad policy to allow trespassers onto tracks, including the ROW.  FYI.


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## ph0enix (Nov 27, 2012)

UGH!  Why people insist on taking photos on railroad tracks is beyond me.  It's a fad and when they look at the photographs years from now, they'll probably say "what was I thinking?".   But anyway,  you can have the tracks in the middle in a couple of photos but you need to try different compositions to see what works.  You can incorporate the rule of thirds in at least some.  Don't think that because you use a specific rule (or not), the photos will automatically be great.  Sometimes rules work, sometimes they don't.  You're the artist.  It's up to you to decide when to use them.  Whatever you do, stay away from selective coloring.  It almost never looks good.


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## ph0enix (Nov 27, 2012)

mishele said:


> Nothing says family like railroad tracks.



Precisely!  Unless, of course, it's a family of train conductors or something to that effect


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## Buckster (Nov 27, 2012)

I tried really hard to be upset, disgusted or even irritated by "people on tracks" photos, but in the end, it just didn't matter to me if that's what they want.

Moving on...


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## KmH (Nov 27, 2012)

From a composition point of view, train tracks can be used as leading lines to help direct the image viewers eye to the subjects.
So, I would say having the train track vanishing point visible may be counter productive.
Train tracks also can represent the passing of time, or a visual metaphor for the life journey the people in the photo are on.

No doubt people shots made adjacent to train tracks are just about as ubiquitous as people shots made at a public park.

FWIW, ROW = Right Of Way

Designer alludes to an issue you need to assess, beyond the trespass issue.
Even if you are not being paid to make the family portraits, you could be legally liable if a family member were to be hurt during the shoot.
Say dad trips over a railroad track when to arrange the family for a shot you ask him to change his position. He falls and breaks an arm and can't work for some period of time.
You could be then be sued for his lost wages, and medical expenses. In fact, it might be his insurance company that sues you for the medical expenses, plus their attorney fees.

In short, you assume some measure of legal risk by making photos of people who are not part of your immediate family.
If you do not have appropriate liability insurance, you should talk to a qualified insurance agent about getting some.
For a long time the standard dollar value of protection recommended was $1,000,000. The standard dollar value of protection recommended is rapidly becoming $2,000,000.


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## pixmedic (Nov 27, 2012)

KmH said:


> From a composition point of view, train tracks can be used as leading lines to help direct the image viewers eye to the subjects.
> So, I would say having the train track vanishing point visible may be counter productive.
> Train tracks also can represent the passing of time, or a visual metaphor for the life journey the people in the photo are on.
> 
> ...



damn...2 mil now eh? guess we should look into upping our policy. bummer


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## gsgary (Nov 27, 2012)

This is on a par with selective colour and baby blocks, where's the sick smiley


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## tirediron (Nov 27, 2012)

Putting aside the issue of the railroad tracks themselves, as KmH alluded to, the proper position of the vanishing point is critical in a 'leading lines' composition.  The idea of leading lines is that they lead the eye from the foreground to the subject of the photograph.  The eye is going to follow them, and if the vanishing point is visible beyond the subject, then guess what?  Your subject becomes secondary!


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## Dikkie (Nov 27, 2012)

I'm stuck here with a garden gnome who wants to pose near tracks very often, when I do my daily walk with him:








For gnomes I understand, but for family portraits?


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## unpopular (Nov 27, 2012)

just wanted to say "hi".

I'll be leaving now.


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## GlowingAmber (Nov 27, 2012)

Thanks everyone!  I appreciate all the comments. This family wanted to do it for their dad- he is retired from the railroad and they thought he would love it. It was his kids and grandkids. Aww.


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## kathyt (Nov 27, 2012)

You are the photographer. Use your creative vision for the shoot and see what works and what doesn't. This is what portfolio building is for. So you can go out and shoot, practice, and develop techniques that work for you. Yes, there are some general "rules" of photography, but these rules can be tweaked to each of our liking or all of our work would look the same. If I were you, I would just start shooting more and then post some of your images for critique. This is going to help you alot more in the long run.


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## texkam (Nov 27, 2012)

> This family wanted to do it for their dad- he is retired from the railroad and they thought he would love it.


I call BS on this this thread. Any family of a retired RR employee would be aware of and respectful of RR trespassing laws. Not buyin' it.


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## bratkinson (Nov 28, 2012)

As a refresher...Railroad tracks, buildings, equipment, rights-of-way and even their highway vehicles are private property and taking pictures on or even too-close to railroad property is not only trespassing, but can be extremely dangerous, as well.  

In parts of the US, electric trains are running faster than 120 mph.  In Europe and Japan, their electric trains run over 200 mph.  Not only are they nearly silent, but they are closing at the rate of several hundred FEET PER SECOND!  You don't HAVE a second to see it and jump clear!  At that speed, anything within 10-15 feet is strongly affected by the wind "blast", as well.

BE SAFE!  Your life and those around you can be gone in less than a second!


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## GlowingAmber (Nov 28, 2012)

texkam said:


> > This family wanted to do it for their dad- he is retired from the railroad and they thought he would love it.
> 
> 
> I call BS on this this thread. Any family of a retired RR employee would be aware of and respectful of RR trespassing laws. Not buyin' it.



all i can say is wow. what is there to "buy"?


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## Designer (Nov 28, 2012)

GlowingAmber said:


> texkam said:
> 
> 
> > > This family wanted to do it for their dad- he is retired from the railroad and they thought he would love it.
> ...



The term is sometimes used in reference to "believing a story".

ps: Are you going to post the picture?


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## unpopular (Nov 28, 2012)

yeah, guys. they're called abandoned or unused tracks. i have my doubts that Amber is planning on heading to the nearest Acela line and plopping the family down for a few snaps.

Don't be so dramatic.


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## pixmedic (Nov 28, 2012)

we are all anxiously awaiting the pictures from the first session she had over the weekend. quite a few gave some really good advice on how to get the shots she wanted. I, for one, would love to see the results.


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## GlowingAmber (Nov 28, 2012)

honestly i'm scared of you guys!  second, i've never done it, do i have to reformat them?


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## GlowingAmber (Nov 28, 2012)

thank you pixmedic . still having hard time with blur. took the advice, used a tripod, increased f-stop for family focus, then later tried increasing ss and iso, but still blurry.  i was on av mode so i couldnt adjust all 3, cause i know when i do those 2 i need to lower fstop. even in sun, when my pics are usually sharp. it may be a problem with my af point/points.   trying it all kinds of ways, like af in center, focus on one person, and also, all af points in use, and focus on whole group. still having trouble.  time for lessons from a person, i need some interaction.


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## pixmedic (Nov 28, 2012)

GlowingAmber said:


> honestly i'm scared of you guys!  second, i've never done it, do i have to reformat them?



reformat the pictures? as long as they are in JPEG form you can post them on the forum. just keep the file size under a 1mb.  
you may find most peoples willingness to help greatly diminished if you keep asking for their help, but never post the results. 
C&C on pictures is one of the best ways to get specific advice on how to improve. people can see what you got right, and what you got wrong. and you need to know BOTH if you want to improve in the future. 

it is obviously your choice to post pics or not...but personally, I don't see much point in helping you again if I cant see if any of it worked.


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## GlowingAmber (Nov 28, 2012)

yep, you're right pixmedic!


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## Dikkie (Nov 28, 2012)

To get inspiration:
RailPictures.Net » Photo Search Result » Railroad, Train, Railway Photos, Pictures & News


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## kathyt (Nov 28, 2012)

GlowingAmber said:


> thank you pixmedic . still having hard time with blur. took the advice, used a tripod, increased f-stop for family focus, then later tried increasing ss and iso, but still blurry.  i was on av mode so i couldnt adjust all 3, cause i know when i do those 2 i need to lower fstop. even in sun, when my pics are usually sharp. it may be a problem with my af point/points.   trying it all kinds of ways, like af in center, focus on one person, and also, all af points in use, and focus on whole group. still having trouble.  time for lessons from a person, i need some interaction.



You are not going to be able to take control of everything like your aperture, ss, and iso at the same time until you are in manual mode. Once you learn manual mode, then you take control of everything your camera does so you are left with no surprises.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Nov 28, 2012)

Portraits taken on train tracks, should be taken from the perspective of the guy that drives the train. Perhaps have the subjects pose with a look of surprise, or horror. Add some radial motion blur for added realism!






Just funnin'.


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## PlanetStarbucks (Nov 28, 2012)

lol...do you guys really let those little signs that say "union pacific private property" stop you?  I've been on those lines countless times when a train rolls up.  I usually wave to the conductor and he waves right back.  They really don't care.


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## GlowingAmber (Nov 28, 2012)

LOL!!  Funny stuff!


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## GlowingAmber (Nov 28, 2012)

Thank you Kathy. I don't usually shoot in manual, but I have learned and practiced on an online course. It doesnt come quick enough for me to use it at a shoot, with babies crying and parents getting frustrated.  I'll be there soon hopefully.


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## Designer (Nov 28, 2012)

PlanetStarbucks said:


> lol...do you guys really let those little signs that say "union pacific private property" stop you?  I've been on those lines countless times when a train rolls up.  I usually wave to the conductor and he waves right back.  They really don't care.



Those signs don't mean anything to most people, but the RR lawyers sure do like 'em.

The RR workers don't mind until they have to mop up your grease.  

And in case anyone wonders; yes, I have been on tracks many times.


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## GlowingAmber (Nov 28, 2012)

ok, here's one. turns out i didnt get a good one with the vanishing point hidden, so do you agree the family in the middle is the best?  i know the faces are dark, i need an external flash. what do you think?


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## GlowingAmber (Nov 28, 2012)

Two more, different family...


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## GlowingAmber (Nov 28, 2012)

More, different family...


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## unpopular (Nov 28, 2012)

Not too bad, amber. I think you'd be wise to invest in a decent flash, but you're definitely on the right* track!*


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## Designer (Nov 28, 2012)

Hey, I like them all!  Yes, family in center is good.  Yes, the tracks lead the eye, but family is still the center of attention.  Yes, you need a flash.  Composition(s) are all good.  

Keep up the good work!

And get a flash.


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## GlowingAmber (Nov 28, 2012)

i'm so happy, thank you both!!  yes, shopping for a flash right now, gonna order today... i have a canon xsi.. should i stick with a canon 430EX, or can i get a cheaper non-canon that's decent?  250 is pushing it!!


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## GlowingAmber (Nov 28, 2012)

on that family with the cabin shot, i tried hard to get the cabin blurrier...but lowering the fstop wasnt working for it. my best guess is i was too far from the subject?


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## Buckster (Nov 28, 2012)

GlowingAmber said:


> i'm so happy, thank you both!!  yes, shopping for a flash right now, gonna order today... i have a canon xsi.. should i stick with a canon 430EX, or can i get a cheaper non-canon that's decent?  250 is pushing it!!


I have 2 Canon 580EXII and two Yongnuo YN-565EX flashes, and use them all.  The Yongnuo flashes and triggers work great, and will save you a lot of money, especially if you don't need ETTL.


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## GlowingAmber (Nov 28, 2012)

Buckster said:


> GlowingAmber said:
> 
> 
> > i'm so happy, thank you both!!  yes, shopping for a flash right now, gonna order today... i have a canon xsi.. should i stick with a canon 430EX, or can i get a cheaper non-canon that's decent?  250 is pushing it!!
> ...



ooh...those are $100 cheaper...will check them out!  thank you!


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## PlanetStarbucks (Nov 28, 2012)

GlowingAmber said:


> ok, here's one. turns out i didnt get a good one with the vanishing point hidden, so do you agree the family in the middle is the best?  i know the faces are dark, i need an external flash. what do you think?
> 
> View attachment 26908



Yeh, you know, it just feels forced.  Like it's more about the environment then about the family.  Maybe if they were interacting with the place a little.  Like maybe the little girls are putting pennies on the tracks.


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## kathyt (Nov 28, 2012)

GlowingAmber said:


> i'm so happy, thank you both!!  yes, shopping for a flash right now, gonna order today... i have a canon xsi.. should i stick with a canon 430EX, or can i get a cheaper non-canon that's decent?  250 is pushing it!!



If you can't afford a flash right now you can always get a reflector. That is what I use all the time. I have flashes, but I prefer my reflectors to flash any day.


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## GlowingAmber (Nov 28, 2012)

thank you kathy!  i have reflectors on their way, i should get them anyday!  now i have to learn how to use them as well!


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## 2WheelPhoto (Nov 28, 2012)

My assistant (and GF) likes "the tracks"!

I'd call her borderline hobo, but better not.


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## GlowingAmber (Nov 28, 2012)

Buckster said:


> GlowingAmber said:
> 
> 
> > i'm so happy, thank you both!!  yes, shopping for a flash right now, gonna order today... i have a canon xsi.. should i stick with a canon 430EX, or can i get a cheaper non-canon that's decent?  250 is pushing it!!
> ...



Buckster...on that YongNuo, will i miss not having the high speed sync?  i only shoot outdoors at the moment, and i like raising the ss for kid action shots, but could i do ok without the flash for those action shots?


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## Buckster (Nov 28, 2012)

GlowingAmber said:


> Buckster said:
> 
> 
> > GlowingAmber said:
> ...


I think you can live without it.  There are several Yongnuo flashes available, and the ones that don't feature ETTL are way cheaper.  I'd recommend one of those non-ettl speedlights, like the 560 II.


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## GlowingAmber (Nov 28, 2012)

just bought a 560ii...thank you so much buckster!


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## unpopular (Nov 28, 2012)

Amber - i'm impressed. most of us will hemm and haww over every little detail. Your enthusiasm and willingness to make equiptment decisions will do well as a professional.


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## kathyt (Nov 28, 2012)

GlowingAmber said:


> thank you kathy!  i have reflectors on their way, i should get them anyday!  now i have to learn how to use them as well!



I have a couple of large round reflectors for one or two people and then I have a really big rectangular gold/silver mixed one that I use for families that I LOVE! My returning clients all make fun of me and my reflectors, because I will not let them control it (if they are out of the shot of coarse) and I always have at least one with me.


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## GlowingAmber (Nov 28, 2012)

i'm excited!! i have a girlfriend who used to help out a photographer friend in exchange for portraits (nice deal, right!). she would be the one holding the reflectors. now, she can help teach me- and i'll be taking her sons photos this week, so it'll be perfect!


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## GlowingAmber (Nov 28, 2012)

unpopular said:


> Amber - i'm impressed. most of us will hemm and haww over every little detail. Your enthusiasm and willingness to make equiptment decisions will do well as a professional.



thank you unpopular! i spent too much time reading reviews and watching videos today, and i needed to make a decision. when i have something on my mind i can't let it go. i just assumed i would get a canon, but my hubby wasnt too excited about the price. i figure if i want something more in the future, i'll only be out $70...or i can continue to use them both. maybe i'll use that money saved and take some lessons!


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## GlowingAmber (Nov 28, 2012)

Something pulls me to this one, i really like it. what do you think?




60mm, f/14, iso 800, says shutter speed is 7.38? it was on TV mode.


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## unpopular (Nov 28, 2012)

To me, she kind of looks like that point when you're done having fun, and you're about to throw up.


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## unpopular (Nov 28, 2012)

GlowingAmber said:


> unpopular said:
> 
> 
> > Amber - i'm impressed. most of us will hemm and haww over every little detail. Your enthusiasm and willingness to make equiptment decisions will do well as a professional.
> ...



Keep an eye out for these: Sunpak Pro-System 622 Super Flash with Nikon Shoe Mount 90729100143 | eBay

It's a *ridiculously* powerful flash at a reasonable price. I've owned one, and was very fun piece of kit. I'm pretty sure you can use any Sunpak TTL module, provided that you have the cable, you may need to look into that. You can always use it in manual mode with a PC cable.

But it's a very versatile, capable unit. It has a 1/4" thread built-in, and typically very inexpensive on ebay.


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## bratkinson (Nov 29, 2012)

2WheelPhoto said:


> My assistant (and GF) likes "the tracks"!
> 
> I'd call her borderline hobo, but better not.



You gotta be kidding me! Climbing up on a car???? 

What's to keep a freight train from coupling up to the string of railroad cars she's on? And, depending on the length of that string of cars, the locomotive and the mile long train it's pulling may be completely hidden from view! (and earshot, as well). Normal coupling speed is enough to jar the entire length of the parked train cars an inch or more, often with a ground-shaking crash. 

And the sad thing is, should someone get hurt doing stunts like this, the 'poor grieved family' says the railroad should 'take care' of them, etc, etc, etc. Nobody should have to pay for stupid except the idiots doing it.


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## Dikkie (Dec 2, 2012)

What about wooden-toy-train-family-photoshoots?


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## Dikkie (Dec 2, 2012)

Or like this:


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## Tony S (Dec 2, 2012)

> .  It's a fad and




... and been a fad for over 30 years.   lol


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## Tee (Dec 2, 2012)

Everyone should do a railroad track session once.  It's a right of passage.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Dec 2, 2012)

bratkinson said:


> 2WheelPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > My assistant (and GF) likes "the tracks"!
> ...



STUNT?  Dude this was two train cars outside of a power plant and a conductor let us on it for a shot.  Maybe you're quick to $%#^ing judge huh?  

You think this is "risky", should've seen the the time that gal put on a race soon, climbed on the back of that bike in my avatar signed a track waiver with the rest of us, and went on the Road Atlanta race track with me.  

Your post made me smirk......    =)


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## rexbobcat (Dec 2, 2012)

bratkinson said:
			
		

> You gotta be kidding me! Climbing up on a car????
> 
> What's to keep a freight train from coupling up to the string of railroad cars she's on? And, depending on the length of that string of cars, the locomotive and the mile long train it's pulling may be completely hidden from view! (and earshot, as well). Normal coupling speed is enough to jar the entire length of the parked train cars an inch or more, often with a ground-shaking crash.
> 
> And the sad thing is, should someone get hurt doing stunts like this, the 'poor grieved family' says the railroad should 'take care' of them, etc, etc, etc. Nobody should have to pay for stupid except the idiots doing it.



"YOU DARN KIDS. GET OFF MY LAWN!!"

"I'm sorry Mr. Jenkins but we're going to have to take you to a home. Your senility is a nuisance to others."


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## Dikkie (Dec 3, 2012)

Tee said:


> Everyone should do a railroad track session once. It's a right of passage.


To me, a railroad track session brings photography to a higher level. 
:heart:


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## bratkinson (Dec 3, 2012)

Dikkie said:


> Tee said:
> 
> 
> > Everyone should do a railroad track session once. It's a right of passage.
> ...




Tell that to the families of the two young women "just walking along the track" when a coal train derailed alongside them and buried them alive...or to families of the War Heroes parade in Texas that "didn't think the train would come"...

Be safe...not dead.


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## Buckster (Dec 3, 2012)

bratkinson said:


> Dikkie said:
> 
> 
> > Tee said:
> ...


Take a pill, man.  A LOT more people die slipping in the shower or choking on their own food or a thousand other common, everyday activities every year, and I don't see you freaking out over that.  You take a much bigger chance just getting into your car and driving to the local market.

Yes, people should do everything they can to keep safe.  No duh there.  But keep it in perspective.


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## rexbobcat (Dec 3, 2012)

bratkinson said:
			
		

> Tell that to the families of the two young women "just walking along the track" when a coal train derailed alongside them and buried them alive...or to families of the War Heroes parade in Texas that "didn't think the train would come"...
> 
> Be safe...not dead.



Over 50 percent of car accidents happen 5 miles from home.

Also; more people die falling down stairs every year than in airplane crashes.

Relying on specific outliers to make your case is not really that credible.


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## pixmedic (Dec 3, 2012)

rexbobcat said:


> bratkinson said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



neither is making your case based on some anonymous persons suggestion on the internet, but that seems to happen a lot too. :lmao:


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## JLMILLS (Dec 6, 2012)

you guys are a funny lot


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## texkam (Dec 6, 2012)

> he is retired from the railroad and they thought he would love it.


Is giving a retired RR employee a picture of their family on tracks as offensive as giving a retired photographer a picture of their family processed with selective color and a heavy vignette?


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## Buckster (Dec 7, 2012)

texkam said:


> > he is retired from the railroad and they thought he would love it.
> 
> 
> Is giving a retired RR employee a picture of their family on tracks as offensive as giving a retired photographer a picture of their family processed with selective color and a heavy vignette?


I would think it'd be more like giving them a photo of the family surrounded by camera gear.  It's a reminder of what he did to pay the bills for that family, send them them through school, feed and clothe them, etc.


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## texkam (Dec 7, 2012)

In a creative rail setting yes, standing on tracks no, IMHO.


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## texkam (Dec 11, 2012)

Photographer Killed While Taking Pictures of an Oncoming Train


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## tirediron (Dec 11, 2012)

*Okay... I think the point's been made.  *


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