# Marketing help



## Breezy85 (Jun 1, 2018)

Hey folks! So I could really use some help and advice on marketing, bringing in clients. I don't get many, it's a struggle when I advertise in different areas and in different ways. I just handed a stack of my business cards to the coffee place that I regular and the manager, which I know and have worked with, to hand them out to folks that would be interested in photo sessions. I'm kind of out of ideas, so I would really love some business/marketing advice to gain clients. What sucks is I do get lots of inquiries, but when I tell them my prices (which are less than the average for the Seattle/Tacoma area) they're like, "oh too expensive, nevermind." Or they find someone who can do photos for free. I stopped trying to market outside of the music industry for a while because I just wasn't getting any clients who wanted to pay for photos. They just don't understand that this is not a free service. However, I'd really like to nail this down so I'm looking to you fine people for help! I'm open for advice, critiques on my strategies, suggestions for new strategies. Anything.


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## tirediron (Jun 1, 2018)

Handing out a few business cards isn't really marketing.  First and foremost, you must determine who your target market is.  Hint:  "everyone" is NOT a target market.  Once you've decided who/what your target market is, than you need to develop a plan for effective use of social media, cold calls, advertising at appropriate events, etc.  As for your prices being too high, that's a sad reality of today's world.  There are so many out there willing to work for little or nothing that people have become conditioned to not having to pay much, if anything for our services.  My approach has been to target older clients; those who still appreciate the value of a professionally crafted image.  My typical client is probably >60, likely a Veteran, and comfortably well off.  VERY rarely do I get asked how much something costs.


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## Breezy85 (Jun 1, 2018)

tirediron said:


> Handing out a few business cards isn't really marketing.  First and foremost, you must determine who your target market is.  Hint:  "everyone" is NOT a target market.  Once you've decided who/what your target market is, than you need to develop a plan for effective use of social media, cold calls, advertising at appropriate events, etc.  As for your prices being too high, that's a sad reality of today's world.  There are so many out there willing to work for little or nothing that people have become conditioned to not having to pay much, if anything for our services.  My approach has been to target older clients; those who still appreciate the value of a professionally crafted image.  My typical client is probably >60, likely a Veteran, and comfortably well off.  VERY rarely do I get asked how much something costs.



Yeah I've also tried social media as well. I'm not entirely great at the sales/marketing aspect of this and in 4 years, most of my clients are musicians. Promotional photos/artwork for musicians, concerts, etc. I'd like to get other clients that aren't musicians, I've done different kinds of sessions but like you said, lots of people these days are conditioned to the idea of getting a service nearly close to nothing. Which is sad. Thanks for the input, I appreciate it!


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## tirediron (Jun 1, 2018)

Sooooooo... what are you dong to attract those other types of clients?


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## Breezy85 (Jun 1, 2018)

tirediron said:


> Sooooooo... what are you dong to attract those other types of clients?



Have mostly been doing social media and contacting previous clients.
But again, I'm not good at this part...the business aspect, which is why I'm asking for help.


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## smoke665 (Jun 1, 2018)

Breezy85 said:


> What sucks is I do get lots of inquiries, but when I tell them my prices (which are less than the average for the Seattle/Tacoma area) they're like, "oh too expensive, nevermind." Or they find someone who can do photos for free.



Sadly it is difficult for a real photographer to make a living. We have several "mom with cameras" in our area that I've heard will charge anywhere from $25-$75 for 30-60 min shoot and furnish a CD with up to 36 images. I'm strictly an amateur, but if I wasn't I wouldn't pull my camera out of the bag for that.


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## tirediron (Jun 1, 2018)

Breezy85 said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> > Sooooooo... what are you dong to attract those other types of clients?
> ...


Get in touch with your local Adult Ed facilities and start signing up for courses on marketing and entrepreneurship.  The business of photography is very little about photography and very much about business!


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## Breezy85 (Jun 1, 2018)

smoke665 said:


> Breezy85 said:
> 
> 
> > What sucks is I do get lots of inquiries, but when I tell them my prices (which are less than the average for the Seattle/Tacoma area) they're like, "oh too expensive, nevermind." Or they find someone who can do photos for free.
> ...



Yep, and I hear that all the time and I wouldn't either. I had a gal inquire to me about photographing her wedding, we sat down, went over everything she wanted. I gave her a price and she said, "Oh, I was hoping to stay around $500." =/ She ended up having her "mom who does pictures" and sadly her photos at the end were not very good.


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## Breezy85 (Jun 1, 2018)

tirediron said:


> Breezy85 said:
> 
> 
> > tirediron said:
> ...



Thanks! I'll make note of that!


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## smoke665 (Jun 1, 2018)

Breezy85 said:


> I stopped trying to market outside of the music industry for a while because I just wasn't getting any clients who wanted to pay for photos



Any possibility of leveraging your experience here to a similar market, say acting or modeling? Or maybe contacting some magazines in the trade, or talent agencies in the business. With the trade magazines it would likely be contract or spot work. With the talent agencies, you might market a "packet" of professional head shots at $$$ for whenever they have a new client come in.


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## Breezy85 (Jun 1, 2018)

smoke665 said:


> Breezy85 said:
> 
> 
> > I stopped trying to market outside of the music industry for a while because I just wasn't getting any clients who wanted to pay for photos
> ...



Interesting, never thought of something like that. I'll make note of that too!


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## vintagesnaps (Jun 1, 2018)

I'm not sure what you're going for... do you want to expand on doing event photography or get into doing portraits? If that, what? seniors, families, engagements?

You need a professional website that you can direct back to from your social media. You need a solid portfolio; I quit looking after awhile. And certainly for pro work, no cats, no cars, or what you ate for dinner! lol Keep that stuff for your personal social media, just for fun, but - keep in mind that if anyone looks at any of your photos there's probably going to be an expectation that even casual fun pictures will be good/pro quality.

I am not sure from your Instagram if you aren't always nailing the exposures and have done a lot of editing to try and fix it, or if what I'm seeing is from instagramming the heck out of them. Go thru and edit that waaaaaay down for a professional portfolio. Pick your best. There's some good stuff in there, particularly some of the close up or what I think of as in-game (or in this case, event) portraits. But I don't see any photos that show me you do portraits, and I see quite a few that aren't sharp or could have been framed better. Do some editing down from all those photos and use the best - if there's one you like or is a great memory but isn't the greatest image, keep it for your personal collection.

Doing events (or anything really) I learned to go for a 'clean' composition, meaning to minimize visual clutter; if something isn't adding to the photo, keep it out of the frame. Think about vantage point; work thru the crowd, lean, whatever it takes to get a better photo framed. Make sure the camera's straight. It probably wouldn't hurt to keep learning and practicing and keep working toward bringing up your skill level. I've been a photographer forever and still can get rusty and need practice.

You may eventually need a portfolio with separate sections for events/music and portraits. I don't know how you can expect to get wedding clients when I see nothing wedding. It seems like social media seems to attract people who just want cheap. Sounds like you wasted time waiting to discuss price so that's where it would help to learn marketing and how to present yourself. Probably prospective clients who want a good wedding photographer are going to go find one and be prepared to pay the going rate and I don't think you'll find them posting concert photos on social media.

I was wondering with the music photos if that could relate more to senior portraits, or maybe engagements? I dunno... If you aren't already, start learning about releases because even though a concert was attended by the public you can't use photos of the band for commercial purposes without signed releases. Get on American Society of Media Photographers - Homepage or PPA and start learning about releases, contracts, etc. etc. John's right about the business aspect of it, and ASMP does webinars (free, just sign up and they email you a link).

I would say I see potential there, and you've got your work cut out for you. I don't think anybody's making a lot of money at photography (or ever did, really), and anybody I know locally does it part time/seasonally (sports) so you gotta love it and probably figure out how it could work along with another job/other work and build from there.


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## Breezy85 (Jun 1, 2018)

vintagesnaps said:


> I'm not sure what you're going for... do you want to expand on doing event photography or get into doing portraits? If that, what? seniors, families, engagements?
> 
> You need a professional website that you can direct back to from your social media. You need a solid portfolio; I quit looking after awhile. And certainly for pro work, no cats, no cars, or what you ate for dinner! lol Keep that stuff for your personal social media, just for fun, but - keep in mind that if anyone looks at any of your photos there's probably going to be an expectation that even casual fun pictures will be good/pro quality.
> 
> ...



So my current Instagram is in the concert/music industry that I'm currently in. I post serious stuff and not so serious stuff related to musicians. I would create separate social media accounts for non music related photos, maybe even different branding. Yes, I plan on updating my web site to have different sections - I'm in the process of that. My Instagram account is not for portfolio purpose. It's a social media account, it's for social purposes  It's so far worked well for me and I get my music clients based on my Instagram. I don't use any Instagram editing or filters. I appreciate the input on my Instagram, but my current account I'm keeping the way it is since it's not meant to be a portfolio.

"if something isn't adding to the photo, keep it out of the frame." Believe me I try my best to do that, and if somehow something still makes it in, I do my best to retouch stuff out. I do that a lot actually. Concert shots, I'm so OCD about mic stands...if I can retouch it out, I will 

Also, I'm not looking to get into weddings. So that's why you don't see anything wedding, haha! If I do engagements, I'd have to market into weddings. So that area is not my goal. My experience in doing weddings it was just too overwhelming. I'd prefer to more lean into the area of seniors, portraits, headshots, families. Maybe even birth photography since I've done a couple of those and loved it. I also have a full time job that currently pays the bills  So it's definitely not something I'm solely relying on, even though I'd love to be doing photography full time and I know people who have been able to do that.

Actually I have been keeping an eye on ASMP, my dad had actually recommended that to me a while ago.


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## KmH (Jun 1, 2018)

I built my portrait business by marketing to the 15% of the population that have 85% of the money.
But a big key to that is being able to socialize, _*in* *person*_, with that 15%.
Of course free & low cost marketing venues tend to be the least effective. You have to spend money to make money.

How To Maximize Your Digital Marketing Spend


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## Vtec44 (Jun 1, 2018)

In short, only show what you want to sell and your perceived value is everything.


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## Breezy85 (Jun 1, 2018)

Vtec44 said:


> In short, only show what you want to sell and your perceived value is everything.



Definitely agree with that.
Funny thing is that I can network like a boss. LOL! I've got networking down solid, it's just turning that into selling is where I lack.


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## KmH (Jun 1, 2018)

Are you selling in person? Or do you put images online and let your customers browse through them.

Photographers that sell in person generally have, at least, a 4x larger average sale than those that don't sell in person.
The Kindle edition of this book is free:
The Psychology of Salesmanship

I read this salesmanship classic years ago:
How I Raised Myself From Failure To Success In Selling


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## Breezy85 (Jun 1, 2018)

KmH said:


> Are you selling in person? Or do you put images online and let your customers browse through them.
> 
> Photographers that sell in person generally have, at least, a 4x larger average sale than those that don't sell in person.
> The Kindle edition of this book is free:
> ...



Thanks for the reads, I'll check those out. I do both online and in person. Just nobody ever bites. Everyone wants close to nothing, they just don't understand the concept of services aren't free.


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## Vtec44 (Jun 2, 2018)

Breezy85 said:


> Vtec44 said:
> 
> 
> > In short, only show what you want to sell and your perceived value is everything.
> ...




You're not just selling but you're selling something intangible.  Some people treat photography as a service, which is a standardized process that can be repeated by anyone.  Others sell it as something intangible that can only be done by a few.  Some take it a bit further by leveraging social proofing and the strength of the brand.  At that point, you're not selling based on quality but based on the name of your brand.   It goes back to perceived value.  Is a Porsche 918 ten times better than an Acura NSX?  Some people don't think so, some people do.  Regardless, the Porsche brand can draw enough demand to charge 10x more than Acura brand.


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## Olivia Green (Jun 5, 2018)

Have you tried marketing your brand online? People now are searching for everything on internet first and then go for offline work. If people around you are searching for "photographer in specific area" and your website shows up with outstanding images, you're getting hired. Build a decent portfolio website with your best 20-40 images and link an about and contact page with it. I personally do not like when people add the pricing on website since it can reduce the number of leads but again its personal. You can always decide the pricing when you meet. Optimize your website for local area and make sure that your website ranks when people search for photographers around your area.


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## Breezy85 (Jun 5, 2018)

Olivia Green said:


> Have you tried marketing your brand online? People now are searching for everything on internet first and then go for offline work. If people around you are searching for "photographer in specific area" and your website shows up with outstanding images, you're getting hired. Build a decent portfolio website with your best 20-40 images and link an about and contact page with it. I personally do not like when people add the pricing on website since it can reduce the number of leads but again its personal. You can always decide the pricing when you meet. Optimize your website for local area and make sure that your website ranks when people search for photographers around your area.



Yeah I'm in the process of rebuilding my website and will be making it so that it will come up in searches.


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## ac12 (Jun 5, 2018)

> . . . . Just nobody ever bites. Everyone wants close to nothing, they just don't understand the concept of services aren't free.



Then that has to be part of your marketing.
If they don't understand, you have to educate them on what they get for what they pay.

WHY should they hire a pro, when Uncle Jim can take the pictures.  Uncle Jim has a fancy camera.​
WHY should they hire a pro, when friend Bob can take it with his camera phone.​You have to have a GOOD reply to these types of questions, that is not degrading of  the relative or friend.


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## Breezy85 (Jun 5, 2018)

ac12 said:


> > . . . . Just nobody ever bites. Everyone wants close to nothing, they just don't understand the concept of services aren't free.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh I get that and try to explain it. They still would rather go with a friend or family member who will do it for free, then realize after the fact that the pictures are crap and they wish they hired a pro.


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## ac12 (Jun 5, 2018)

A reverse ad might be possible.
Ask them if you can quote their after-the-fact feeling, when they used a family member/friend, and it did not work.
It would not be endorsing you, but endorsing the service of using a pro.

However, this is very tricky to do right.  Negative word can get back to the family member or friend, and problems can arise from that.
So it has to be generalized to hide the identity of all parties.


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## Breezy85 (Jun 5, 2018)

ac12 said:


> A reverse ad might be possible.
> Ask them if you can quote their after-the-fact feeling, when they used a family member/friend, and it did not work.
> It would not be endorsing you, but endorsing the service of using a pro.
> 
> ...



Interesting. Though I know there's only so much you can do to fix bad photos. Haha
What kind of wording would you recommend?


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## ac12 (Jun 5, 2018)

You will have to combine the experiences of several people, to hide the individual identities.
Off the top of my head, something like these two.

For my X event, we asked Uncle Y to take the pictures for us, to save money.
But Uncle Y was not a pro and did not get the shots, poses, people that we wanted.
And he spent half the time at the bar.
When we got the pictures, we were less than happy.  The tops of head were cut off, no pictures of some of the important guests, etc.  The pictures later in the evening were bad, because Uncle had too much to drink.

Cousin M was a good landscape photographer, but he did not know how to pose people, so the group pictures were not as good as they could and should have been.  People just lined up and he shot it.  He did not arrange people or directed them on how to stand.  So Uncle A was not next to his wife, you could not see everyone's faces, cousin J was texting on his phone, etc.


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## Breezy85 (Jun 5, 2018)

Ah okay.
Yeah a couple I'm friends with "hired" a friend of theirs to do pictures at their wedding. Then I saw my friend post to FB saying they were completely disappointed in the photos and asked for anyone who had gotten pictures at their wedding to send them. When I saw the pictures I was astonished. Very bright, blown out from the sun. Formal portraits were not very well framed and you can see the parking lot and cars in the background. There was no consideration for what was in the background, obviously no idea how to compensate the photos for the bright sunlight, so exposure was way off, some even completely out of focus (background in focus, people blurry). She said it took MONTHS for them to get the photos and when they finally did, they were very disappointed. It was sad. This was her wedding day and the photos sucked.


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## ac12 (Jun 5, 2018)

Breezy85 said:


> Ah okay.
> Yeah a couple I'm friends with "hired" a friend of theirs to do pictures at their wedding. Then I saw my friend post to FB saying they were completely disappointed in the photos and asked for anyone who had gotten pictures at their wedding to send them. When I saw the pictures I was astonished. Very bright, blown out from the sun. Formal portraits were not very well framed and you can see the parking lot and cars in the background. There was no consideration for what was in the background, obviously no idea how to compensate the photos for the bright sunlight, so exposure was way off, some even completely out of focus (background in focus, people blurry). She said it took MONTHS for them to get the photos and when they finally did, they were very disappointed. It was sad. This was her wedding day and the photos sucked.



Heard similar from a friend.
But in their case, the lighting at the venue was difficult.  BRIGHT sun lit background to shadow where the people were.  It was like backlighting.


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