# Question About People Taking Pictures of You



## vixxen (Feb 6, 2012)

I hope this question is okay to post here! I was at a pub/bar type of place located in a hotel over the weekend. While I was sitting by myself and having a drink, I noticed a guy across the bar with his camera out and then blinded me with the flash. It made me mad cause this isn't the first time this type of thing to happen. I immediately went over to him and demanded that he deletes my picture and I made it clear I don't want my picture to be taken.

I live in Toronto, Canada and I'm wondering if this is OK for people to do within a private type of establishment without asking for my permission or is it still considered "public"? I want to know for the next time, some creep decides to whip out his camera and take pictures of me .


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## KmH (Feb 6, 2012)

I'm not sure about the laws in Canada but as a practical matter it's essentially imposssible to have an expectation of privacy while sitting in a hotel bar/pub. It's likely the hotel has surveilance cameras all over the hotel common areas and your likeness was likely recorded numerous times while you were in and about the hotel and the hotel grounds.

While I suspect you have zero grounds to demand the photo be deleted, you likely have a say if the photo is used for a commercial purpose, like promoting/advertising the hotel's bar/pub.

However, I doubt you would have any legal recourse if the photographer were to print the photo for personal use.

Your screen name may speak volumes regarding the image you try to project when out in public.


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## EIngerson (Feb 6, 2012)

I understand if you don't like your picture taken, but as a photographer I have to ask, would it be so hard to just ask the gentlemen politely to not take your picture? If I see an attractive person in a nice setting, I like to take a picture of it. I don't have any malicious intent when I take it.


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## Big Mike (Feb 6, 2012)

As mentioned, it likely comes down to something along the lines of 'Reasonable Expectation of Privacy'.  If you are in a place where you would have a 'Reasonable Expectation of Privacy'...like inside your hotel room, or inside your home, or in your back yard (with a high privacy fence) etc....then you might have a legitimate issue with someone taking your photo.

But if you are out in public, including privately owned property (like a bar), then you can't expect the same level of privacy.  Now, if the owner of the property asks the photographer to stop, or to vacate the premises, then they might have to obey (or be charged with trespassing) but I don't think there are ever any grounds for the photos to be deleted etc.


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## jwbryson1 (Feb 6, 2012)

KmH said:


> Your screen name may speak volumes regarding the image you try to project when out in public.



Very good point, Keith.

I love the "immediately went over and demanded" that her picture be deleted.  Demanded!!


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## vixxen (Feb 6, 2012)

KmH said:


> I'm not sure about the laws in Canada but as a practical matter it's essentially imposssible to have an expectation of privacy while sitting in a hotel bar/pub. It's likely the hotel has surveilance cameras all over the hotel common areas and your likeness was likely recorded numerous times while you were in and about the hotel and the hotel grounds.
> 
> While I suspect you have zero grounds to demand the photo be deleted, you likely have a say if the photo is used for a commercial purpose, like promoting/advertising the hotel's bar/pub.
> 
> ...



Even though it's not in my favor, I suppose this is true and makes sense...

I forgot to mention the man who took a picture of me wasn't a "photographer" in any real sense - Just a man with a camera....There's been a lot of voyeurism cases on the news and police looking for men who take inappropriate pictures of women (up their skirts etc), so this is why it makes me weary. (My screen name was chosen cause it was available , it's not a real reflection of me or how I may project myself in public) It wasn't like I was dressed provocatively, it's February here and it's quite cold and I was dressed warmly. Still, if a woman was wearing a mini skirt, I feel that it's still courteous if men don't help themselves and take dozens of pictures of her - especially if she makes it clear she doesn't want her picture taken...




EIngerson said:


> I understand if you don't like your picture  taken, but as a photographer I have to ask, would it be so hard to just  ask the gentlemen politely to not take your picture? If I see an  attractive person in a nice setting, I like to take a picture of it. I  don't have any malicious intent when I take it.



As I said above, the man wasn't a real photographer you know what I mean? lol  I've been at a bar before to see a local KISS tribute band and the photographer asked if he could take a picture of me with the band - and I said yes. I think asking for permission is just the right and civil thing to do.


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## Skinnifatkid (Feb 6, 2012)

Not to take away from the OP's regard of privacy, but it totally depends on the establishment. I have worked in the industry as a "Hospitality Host" or doorman and have had to ask people to either not take photos of the entire room or video it. Party shots were okay, as long as it was of the members in the party. 

The reason as it was explained to me, well before all the social media sites came about, was due to the expectation of privacy and that if a Male/Female had their picture taken in what was an innocent situation and that photo/video were to be posted, the repercussions of it being seen in a misconstrued manner were too high and legal ramifications have occured as a result of an innocent picture being posted on XYZ social site. 

As for an individual "Demanding" the picture be deleted...? 

Most reputable establishments have rules posted or a sign that states, "No Photography or Video Allowed".

Vixxen- having just read your reply, asking the establishment to deal with this would have been within your rights. As stated, Reputable establishments would deal with this appropiately. Either by having the individual leave or by involving Police if the situation warrented it IE-voyeurism. Not trying to disagree with your situation, just trying to assist if it happens again.


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## Josh66 (Feb 6, 2012)

vixxen said:


> I think asking for permission is just the right and civil thing to do.


Certainly, but some people don't care about being polite, or are scared to ask (you know, the whole 'better to ask for forgiveness than permission' thing).

Legally, I don't think they would be _required_ to ask in most cases though.


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## vixxen (Feb 6, 2012)

jwbryson1 said:


> KmH said:
> 
> 
> > Your screen name may speak volumes regarding the image you try to project when out in public.
> ...



Yes sir, I "demanded" him to delete my pictures cause I felt it was inappropriate. I'm 19-years-old and the man must have been in his late 40's. I felt uncomfortable at what he was doing and don't want any pictures of me in his possession.

Admittedly, I actually made quite a scene over it - The manager got involved, two other women who were around his age witnessed what happened and were confronting him as well and they were saying it's against the law, which lead me to find out whether it's legal or not. The manager asked the man to pay for his drinks and leave the premises of the hotel.


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## Bossy (Feb 6, 2012)

Hard to believe of all the names and combonations Vixxen was the only one left. 

If someone took a pic of you, they must've deemed something about you to be photo-worthy. Gee, I can only imagine what you think that might be.


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## Josh66 (Feb 6, 2012)

vixxen said:


> Yes sir, I "demanded" him to delete my pictures cause I felt it was inappropriate.


What would have happened if he refused?

Generally, even the police cannot delete pictures/confiscate film without a court order.


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## tirediron (Feb 6, 2012)

Unfortunately Vixxen, you are out of luck.  As distasteful and innapropriate as this person was being, he did nothing illegal.  The Canadian law(s) as they apply are:

The Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which states that: "You are guaranteed the right to take photographs, and publish them.  You are guaranteed the right to express yourself through photography, and you have the freedom to publish the photos you take. Unless you are arrested, the Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees your right to take photographs of anything you want, as well as publish them."  

The only statues (of which I am aware) which supercede this are contained in the Canadian Criminal Code as follows:  *Reasonable Expectation of Privacy:  *The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms also says that every Canadian is guaranteed a reasonable expectation of privacy. This protects your privacy against unreasonable search, and seizure of your property by the government. For non-government related privacy, see Criminal Voyeurism, and the various Privacy Acts for your Province, they protect your privacy from other people and companies, as well, they protect the privacy of people you photograph." 

and 

"*Criminal Voyeurism *You can not take photos of people who are in circumstances where they believe that they have a reasonable expectation of privacy, for example, a bathroom. This generally extends to include a person inside their own home, or anywhere where they have reason to believe is a private place."

Since you would be hard-pressed to make either one of these apply in this situation, your only option is to complain to the management, who, as the property owners, or representiatives thereof, can authorize or forbid the taking of photographs within their premises.


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## o hey tyler (Feb 6, 2012)

vixxen said:


> jwbryson1 said:
> 
> 
> > KmH said:
> ...



Okay, so you felt it was inappropriate, but have no proof that he actually even took a photo of you? 

You said you "saw his flash" from "across the bar..." That could mean that he was taking a photo of anything. He could have been taking a wide angle shot of the whole establishment. 

By your own vague admission, he could have been shooting one of his friends... BUT NO! You saw the flash, so he must have been zooming in right at your face! 

OP, I'd relax a little bit. You're going to get your photo taken, and sometimes it will be taken by strangers. It's life. You don't know him, and he doesn't know you. Chances are, you'll never meet again.


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## vixxen (Feb 6, 2012)

O|||||||O said:


> vixxen said:
> 
> 
> > Yes sir, I "demanded" him to delete my pictures cause I felt it was inappropriate.
> ...



If he refused, I could just wait till my boyfriend came to deal with him :mrgreen:

No, I'm kidding but I think it's worth trying to confront and request fo him to delete my picture - which he did as I stood there and made sure it was gone...If someone feels like they're a person with an ounce of any courtesy and respect, they would acknowledge that I don't want my picture taken and they would delete it. 

Perhaps next time a guy wants to take my picture, I should whip my camera out too and start snapping and snapping......Lets see how they feel when the tables are turned... 

I once saw a man who looks like Superman (Christopher Reeve) at a bar, I should have taken a couple of hundred pictures of him!! Damn, if only I knew it was okay back then! :razz:


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## o hey tyler (Feb 6, 2012)

vixxen said:


> Perhaps next time a guy wants to take my picture, I should whip my camera out too and start snapping and snapping......Lets see how they feel when the tables are turned...



This is actually a really good idea. This is what you should do, and what I have done in the past. Much better than creating a scene over a stupid bar photo that probably didn't even turn out that great due to on camera flash.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Feb 6, 2012)

This thread has more win than the one I posted wanting my Sigma prime to exceed f/16


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## jwbryson1 (Feb 6, 2012)

vixxen said:


> (My screen name was chosen cause it was available , it's not a real reflection of me or how I may project myself in public)



I should have chosen DirtyOldman as my screen name for this forum.  It's not "me" per se, but hell, it WAS available and all...


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## jwbryson1 (Feb 6, 2012)




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## Josh66 (Feb 6, 2012)

jwbryson1 said:


> vixxen said:
> 
> 
> > (My screen name was chosen cause it was available , it's not a real reflection of me or how I may project myself in public)
> ...


Send a PM to the Admin - I'm sure they can change it for you.  :lmao:



vixxen said:


> I once saw a man who looks like Superman (Christopher Reeve) at a bar, I should have taken a couple of hundred pictures of him!! Damn, if only I knew it was okay back then! :razz:


The worst they could have (legally) done is ask you to leave the premises.


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## e.rose (Feb 6, 2012)

vixxen said:


> Perhaps next time a guy wants to take my picture, I should whip my camera out too and start snapping and snapping......Lets see how they feel when the tables are turned...


 
Do it.

He probably won't give two craps about it.

I was out... in the streets of Philly... shooting a show... I was leaning up against a wall when I noticed... ::GASP:: a telephoto lens pointed RIGHT at me.

Surprisingly... I didn't throw a sh*tfit about it.

I walked up to him after I allowed him a few shots... trying not to "notice" the camera and going about what I was doing, because that's obviously what he was trying to capture... but I'm SUPER awkward once I know you're taking pictures of me, so I'm pretty sure i just ruined the images for him...

But what did I end up doing?

Get this...

I walked up to the dude... stuck out my hand and said, "Hi, my name is Emily!  Are you going to post those pictures anywhere?  I'd love to see them!"

He barely spoke English, but he was a nice Asian man who wrote down his Flickr screen name for me, and then wrote me an e-mail to show me the picture once he had it posted.

If it weren't for the fact that I looked like a trian-wreck that day, I would have thought it was a sweet image.

Calm down toots.  Just cause the dude was older than you doesn't mean he's dead.

It means he appreciates beauty.

(HOLY SH*T... someone thinks you're pretty!)

And appreciating beauty isn't the same thing as being a dirty old man.

An offensive, voyeuristic images would have consisted of him sitting BEHIND you, on a lower chair, while you sat up on a higher stool in your mini-skirt... with his lens aimed at your ass in hopes of catching a glimpse of your hot-pink g-string... NOT... some girl, "dressed warmly", sipping on a beer.

I totally feel bad for the dude you completely humiliated.

Not you.

Sorry 'bout it.

Not to mention, Tyler is right... JUST because the camera is pointed in your *direction* doesn't mean he's shooting YOU.

/


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## Josh66 (Feb 6, 2012)

e.rose said:


> I totally feel bad for the dude you completely humiliated.


Yeah - I can't believe you got him kicked out of the bar...  To me it sounds like the whole thing was blown out of proportion.  If that guy had been more aware of his rights and the law, that night could have ended very differently...

No clue about Canada, but I'm pretty sure that in Texas, that guy _could have_ had you charged with assault...


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## tirediron (Feb 6, 2012)

Only one emoticon in a post that long?   *Gasp*  Rose, you're slipping!


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## e.rose (Feb 6, 2012)

tirediron said:


> Only one emoticon in a post that long?   *Gasp*  Rose, you're slipping!



I know... I know.  I had a cat hanging off my arm (who is STILL assaulting me, by the way)... makes things difficult when typing.


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## o hey tyler (Feb 6, 2012)

**** just got real... 

Well like 3 posts ago or so. I lost count.


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## e.rose (Feb 6, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


> **** just got real...
> 
> Well like 3 posts ago or so. I lost count.



I'm just not a fan of bullsh*t.  'Das all.


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## vixxen (Feb 6, 2012)

As for PROOF that he was taking a picture of ME - I saw the picture of ME on his phone. It's simple as that. I just don't go around assuming everyone with cameras are taking pictures of me. 

I don't need people to feel "sorry" for me, that was not the original purpose of my post, but I simply asked if it was legal or not and I now have my question answered. 


Because I don't feel comfortable at the fact a man is taking pictures of me - I'm in the wrong for that? Who's to say how am I suppose to feel?

Sure, you wouldn't have mind but as human beings, we're all different. People have different comfort levels in regards to certain things. I'm not trying to argue with anyone here and all of sudden, I feel like I'm being attacked in a forum I signed up to one hour ago - That's ridiculous. I asked a simple question with no intentions for it to become argumentative. 

I simply confronted him and made it clear that I don't want him taking pictures of me and the manager came over to ask what happened. The manager and staff CHOSE to ask him to leave the place, NOT ME. I simply wanted him to stop taking pictures of me and to delete the picture he took of me. Don't twist the situation and make up assumptions when you don't know what happened.


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## vixxen (Feb 6, 2012)

O|||||||O said:


> e.rose said:
> 
> 
> > I totally feel bad for the dude you completely humiliated.
> ...



...Could you care to explain how he could have had me charged with assault?


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## jwbryson1 (Feb 6, 2012)

Gotta have *THICK *skin to hang here.  Good folks, but we take no prisoners....noob.layball:


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## e.rose (Feb 6, 2012)

vixxen said:


> I simply confronted him and made it clear that I don't want him taking pictures of me and the manager came over to ask what happened. The manager and staff CHOSE to ask him to leave the place, NOT ME. I simply wanted him to stop taking pictures of me and to delete the picture he took of me. Don't twist the situation and make up assumptions when you don't know what happened.



You didn't "simply confront" him.

You caused a scene and embarrassed a man with probably no ill intent.

No one says you HAVE to be comfortable with anything.

Simply walking up and saying, "Excuse me, could you please refrain from taking any further pictures of me?" would have probably sufficed.  Most people aren't assholes and *will* yield to that simple request.

But no.  You caused a scene... you "got the manager involved" and got him kicked out.

Real slick.


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## e.rose (Feb 6, 2012)

ALSO...You don't come onto a PHOTOGRAPHY forum...full of PHOTOGRAPHERS... and tell a story about how you HUMILIATED a PHOTOGRAPHER.. and expect it NOT to become argumentative. :banghead:


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## jwbryson1 (Feb 6, 2012)

vixxen said:


> _*Admittedly, I actually made quite a scene over it - The manager got involved, two other women who were around his age witnessed what happened and were confronting him as well and they were saying it's against the law, which lead me to find out whether it's legal or not. *_The manager asked the man to pay for his drinks and leave the premises of the hotel.



Confronted?  Then a threat to have the "boyfriend" take care of him?  

Maybe YOU should have left the bar and found someplace else to drink.  Is the legal drinking age 19 in Canada?  How do you get into a bar at 19?


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## bigtwinky (Feb 6, 2012)

A few points to consider:

1-  While everyone has a different tolerance for being embarrased and uncomfortable, and good on you for deciding to say something, the way it was handled IMO was wrong.  Jumping to conclusions.  You said that "he wasnt a real photographer".  So if he was a real one, would you still of been a b_itch?  How do you know he's a real one?  And dont do the "he was using an iphone" as people are making awesome artistic shots with iphones and Creative Live did a whole segment on iphoneography.

2- images that are deleted and cards that are formatted can very very easily have their images retrieved.  I've done it before, after someone b_itched about me taking their photo... and they were so tiny in the frame, couldnt see them.

3- I take pictures of ugly people just as much as pretty people.  So thinking that it's flattery that her picture is being taken is probably misleading

4- If they were upskirt shots, please post them here so we can...uh....critique them.


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## e.rose (Feb 6, 2012)

bigtwinky said:


> 3- I take pictures of ugly people just as much as pretty people.  So thinking that it's flattery that her picture is being taken is probably misleading



True.

Allow me to refrain.

"He found something about you at the very LEAST, mildly interesting."

Is that an appropriate description, Pierre?


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## Austin Greene (Feb 6, 2012)

vixxen said:
			
		

> As for PROOF that he was taking a picture of ME - I saw the picture of ME on his phone. It's simple as that. I just don't go around assuming everyone with cameras are taking pictures of me.
> 
> I don't need people to feel "sorry" for me, that was not the original purpose of my post, but I simply asked if it was legal or not and I now have my question answered.
> 
> ...



If you've had your question answered, then why are you still here? 

Also just to point out, you yourself said that you didn't "simply" confront him, you made a scene. If I were the manager I would have kicked you out.


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## Tony S (Feb 6, 2012)

Better get over it, as you say it's happened before and it will most likely happen again.

And dang, it's a good thing he deleted the image from his camera. It's not like you really knew he deleted it, or wait... it gets even better that he could delete it and then recover it from his memory card later and now that you really pissed him off it can be plastered all over the place. Hope the bar didn't have a Facebook page that you "liked" because now he knows where to put the picture and comments about your lovely demeanor when you approached him.
And your story loses some of the credibility as it changes... first you are worried about the camera he whipped out and then you saw the picture on his phone??

Ohh, and your actions sound very close to commiting assault given the definition of it... especially the implied threat of waiting for your boyfriend to arrive and take care of it.

_"In law, *assault* is a crime causing a victim to fear violence. The term is often confused with battery, which involves physical contact. The specific meaning of assault varies between countries, but can refer to an act that causes another to apprehend immediate and personal violence, or in the more limited sense of a threat of violence caused by an immediate show of force. "_


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## vixxen (Feb 6, 2012)

Other people got involved cause they WITNESSED what happened and decided out of their *own* will to jump in and have their input and say in it.

The manager came over cause he was overseeing the place and saw that I looked visibly upset. I couldn't help but be upset since I was planning to have a low-key evening. I wasn't anticipating someone would take my picture while I'm trying to relax and have a drink - Why do you think celebrities flip off papprazzis? I'm _*not*_ implying I think I am some kind of "importance" like a celebrity, but I would think people would have some understanding that it would be a nuisance to ANY person. I actually find it strange when people do feel compelled to take pictures of me...I'm just an ordinary person. I guess that's why I was on guard and felt shaken up by it cause I *don't* anticipate or expect this type of thing to happen... 

It wasn't even my intention to "humiliate" him, he was actually grinning the entire time like he thought the whole thing was funny. I'm actually a very shy person (sort of explains why I don't like getting my picture being taken! heh) so I actually had to muster up the courage to confront him. I simply wanted to make it known to him that I didn't want him taking my picture. I don't have control over the facial expressions I made, so if I looked really upset, I couldn't help it?

All I can say is it wasn't my intention to make anyone feel bad, I honestly didn't come in here to share this "story" and make other photographers mad. I came in here since I thought it would be a good place to get a solid answer to my question. And I was right, except I have people jumping at me and making up all sorts of assumptions. Why are you guys so argumentative? I'm only a stranger on the internet - If you got to know me in person, you would see that I'm not someone who tries to get strangers in trouble or kicked out of bars. 

I'm only human and can only learn from my experiences. Next time someone takes a picture of me, I'll react in a more positive "calmer" way. Maybe I'll even pose for them! :mrgreen:




jwbryson1 said:


> vixxen said:
> 
> 
> > _*Admittedly, I actually made quite a scene over it - The manager got involved, two other women who were around his age witnessed what happened and were confronting him as well and they were saying it's against the law, which lead me to find out whether it's legal or not. *_The manager asked the man to pay for his drinks and leave the premises of the hotel.
> ...



I made a joke about waiting for my boyfriend to come and take care of him lol....Unfortunately there's no tone in text so I guess you misinterpreted me.

The legal drinking age in Canada is 19. I'm starting to hate bars anyway, so yes, maybe next time I'll just stay home instead and share a bottle of wine with my boyfriend. No drama. No problems.


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## jake337 (Feb 6, 2012)

Did you even ask to see the photos first????  Maybe he took a beautiful exposure of you.  Maybe he was a professional having a drink at the bar.  Maybe he was a perv.  Who knows.

  If you had asked to see the photo, it may have been a very nice photo of you, and if the person in question was a pro you may have a nice 8x10 print on your computer desk next to you as you type right now.


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## bhop (Feb 6, 2012)

Just curious why you felt so offended from having your photo taken?  What do you think he could've possibly done with it?  Don't you think if he had bad intentions that he'd be more sneaky about it?  I don't get these kinds of reactions to a simple photo...


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## jake337 (Feb 6, 2012)

bhop said:


> Just curious why you felt so offended from having your photo taken?  What do you think he could've possibly done with it?  Don't you think if he had bad intentions that he'd be more sneaky about it?  I don't get these kinds of reactions to a simple photo...


Because somehow, for some reason, everyone with a camera is now a terrorist or a perv...........


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## e.rose (Feb 6, 2012)

:violin:


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## e.rose (Feb 6, 2012)

e.rose said:


> bigtwinky said:
> 
> 
> > 3- I take pictures of ugly people just as much as pretty people.  So thinking that it's flattery that her picture is being taken is probably misleading
> ...



EDIT:

**RePHRASE!

Jeez.

Get more than 2.5 hours a sleep kids.

It's more healthy for your brain.


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## HughGuessWho (Feb 6, 2012)

vixxen said:


> Other people got involved cause they WITNESSED what happened and decided out of their *own* will to jump in and have their input and say in it.
> 
> The manager came over cause he was overseeing the place and saw that I looked visibly upset. I couldn't help but be upset since I was planning to have a low-key evening. I wasn't anticipating someone would take my picture while I'm trying to relax and have a drink - Why do you think celebrities flip off papprazzis? I'm _*not*_ implying I think I am some kind of "importance" like a celebrity, but I would think people would have some understanding that it would be a nuisance to ANY person. I actually find it strange when people do feel compelled to take pictures of me...I'm just an ordinary person. I guess that's why I was on guard and felt shaken up by it cause I *don't* anticipate or expect this type of thing to happen...
> 
> ...



This story gets better by the minute, not to mention how the facts keep changing.
"Other people got involved cause they WITNESSED what happened" because YOU made a big scene.
You were "visibly upset" because someone took your picture? Wow, I couldnt imaging how terrible it would be for you is someone whistled at you.
And, you are "actually a very shy person", yet you marched right over to a total stranger, whom you felt may be some sort of perv or dirty old man, and "DEMANDED" that he delete HIS pictures

Is it just me, or does this whole story seem a bit over the top, or maybe a tad fictition?


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## KmH (Feb 6, 2012)

D R A M A.

Q U E E N.

By the way is 19 yrs old a legal age to be hanging out in a hotel bar/pub in Canada?


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## HughGuessWho (Feb 6, 2012)

e.rose said:


> :violin:



I don&#8217;t think there is going to be any sympathy here. Probably at least half of the people on this forum have taken plenty &#8220;sidewalk shots&#8221;. I hope I never run into one like this.


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## bentcountershaft (Feb 6, 2012)

Am I the only one amazed that the OP put this in the appropriate section?


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## analog.universe (Feb 6, 2012)

HughGuessWho said:


> e.rose said:
> 
> 
> > :violin:
> ...



I've taken lots of random shots like this, and got yelled at once, by a grumpy older dude...   All I have to say is you can not have a 6 inch long grey beard, and wear a shirt that says "ruggedly handsome", and expect not to have your photo taken.  I did end up deleting the photo just because he was a **** about the whole thing and I wanted him to shut up and leave me alone.


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## o hey tyler (Feb 6, 2012)

bentcountershaft said:


> Am I the only one amazed that the OP put this in the appropriate section?



I think so. 

I'm frankly amazed that the OP participated in the discussion for as long as she has.


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## bigtwinky (Feb 6, 2012)

KmH said:


> D R A M A.
> 
> Q U E E N.
> 
> By the way is 19 yrs old a legal age to be hanging out in a hotel bar/pub in Canada?



18 here in Quebec, 19 in most of the rest of Canada.
Except the aboriginal communities, where its probably 13


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## bentcountershaft (Feb 6, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


> bentcountershaft said:
> 
> 
> > Am I the only one amazed that the OP put this in the appropriate section?
> ...



Well it's impressive dammit! 


Maybe I need to get out more.


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## Henrycrafter (Feb 6, 2012)

vixxen said:


> I hope this question is okay to post here! I was at a pub/bar type of place located in a hotel over the weekend. While I was sitting by myself and having a drink, I noticed a guy across the bar with his camera out and then blinded me with the flash. It made me mad cause this isn't the first time this type of thing to happen. I immediately went over to him and demanded that he deletes my picture and I made it clear I don't want my picture to be taken.
> 
> I live in Toronto, Canada and I'm wondering if this is OK for people to do within a private type of establishment without asking for my permission or is it still considered "public"? I want to know for the next time, some creep decides to whip out his camera and take pictures of me .



In the USA you may photograph anything or anybody in a public place or at a public event. HOWEVER if you wish to use the images commercially use must have the permission of the person photographed or,in the case of property, the permission of the owner or manager.
I spend more time getting permission than I do making images.


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## e.rose (Feb 6, 2012)

I have to say, I'm disappointed this fizzled out so quickly.

First one I have been involved in for a long time and it's only a 4-pager.

I'm disappointed in you guys. :waiting:


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## o hey tyler (Feb 6, 2012)

e.rose said:


> I'm disappointed in you guys. :waiting:



You should be. I don't expect anything less.


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## Josh66 (Feb 6, 2012)

e.rose said:


> First one I have been involved in for a long time and it's only a 4-pager.


You killed it.


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## bhop (Feb 6, 2012)

I hope the OP comes back.. I want to find out what she's so afraid of.


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## e.rose (Feb 6, 2012)

O|||||||O said:
			
		

> You killed it.



I guess SO.  And here I thought you liked me.


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## Josh66 (Feb 6, 2012)

e.rose said:


> O|||||||O said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I _did_...


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## tirediron (Feb 6, 2012)

I think a point that is being missed here is that we are all looking at this from the point of view [naturally enough] of photographers.  To someone who isn't concerned about taking pictures, I can easily see where the OP felt this as a violation of her privacy.  Did she over-react?  Perhaps to our way of thinking, BUT as Jane Q. Public alone in a bar having a quiet drink, I'm not sure that her reaction was so out of line.


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## Trever1t (Feb 6, 2012)

wait, I'm confused...was it a camera or a phone? You said you saw the picture on his phone? SO he's snapping away, from across the bar (most bars I know are pretty dark) and managed to get a clear shot on hs phone...


What kind of phone was it, I need one of those!


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## bhop (Feb 7, 2012)

tirediron said:


> I think a point that is being missed here is that we are all looking at this from the point of view [naturally enough] of photographers.  To someone who isn't concerned about taking pictures, I can easily see where the OP felt this as a violation of her privacy.  Did she over-react?  Perhaps to our way of thinking, BUT as Jane Q. Public alone in a bar having a quiet drink, I'm not sure that her reaction was so out of line.



Meh.. I disagree.  It's just a photo from across the bar in a _public_ environment.  Her privacy was not violated.  People are just way too sensitive these days over nothing.


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## tirediron (Feb 7, 2012)

bhop said:


> Meh.. I disagree. It's just a photo from across the bar in a _public_ environment. *Her privacy was not violated*. People are just way too sensitive these days over nothing.


 I'm not sure how you can make such a statement.  Most of privacy is personal perception.  While in the same situation you might not feel _your_ privacy was violated, the OP clearly has a different perception, to which she is entitled.  

Personally, I feel that privacy laws are too lax.  An individual should have the right to control their taking of a photograph in situations like this.  Why should we as photographers have a right to take the photograph of someone who clearly doesn't want to be photographed?  Really, how much effort does it take to ask someone if they mind having their photograph taken?


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## KmH (Feb 7, 2012)

Henrycrafter said:


> HOWEVER if you wish to use the images commercially use must have the permission of the person photographed or,in the case of property, the permission of the owner or manager.
> I spend more time getting permission than I do making images.


That's pretty accurate, if simplistic, when it comes to people in a photo, but it's not very accurate about property.

Anyone interested in more details can read both the model and property release sections of - A Digital Photographer's Guide to Model Releases: Making the Best Business Decisions with Your Photos of People, Places and Things


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## MTVision (Feb 7, 2012)

KmH said:
			
		

> D R A M A.
> 
> Q U E E N.
> 
> By the way is 19 yrs old a legal age to be hanging out in a hotel bar/pub in Canada?



I used to go to Montreal - to the bars - when I was 15. I live about a half hour from Canada and there is a bar not too far across the border that actually catered to the underage Americans. Figured Montreal would be a little different and actually card people but they didn't. 

Things have probably changed in the last 10 years - especially with the needing a passport/enhanced license to cross the border.


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## HughGuessWho (Feb 7, 2012)

There is a difference between what is LEGALLY right and what us MORALLY right. I agree that it would not be difficult to ask first. BUT a person cannot logically expect "privacy" when they are in public. I don't think you gave a legal obligation unless you use the picture for profit. And, as a photographer / artist, its mighty difficult taking candid "street shots" when you inform the person that you are about to take their picture. Just sayin'.


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## jowensphoto (Feb 7, 2012)

HughGuessWho said:


> There is a difference between what is LEGALLY right and what us MORALLY right. I agree that it would not be difficult to ask first. BUT a person cannot logically expect "privacy" when they are in public. I don't think you gave a legal obligation unless you use the picture for profit. And, as a photographer / artist, its mighty difficult taking candid "street shots" when you inform the person that you are about to take their picture. Just sayin'.



How is taking a photo of someone immoral? Don't intend to argue, just wondering why you think that.


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## MTVision (Feb 7, 2012)

tirediron said:
			
		

> I'm not sure how you can make such a statement.  Most of privacy is personal perception.  While in the same situation you might not feel your privacy was violated, the OP clearly has a different perception, to which she is entitled.
> 
> Personally, I feel that privacy laws are too lax.  An individual should have the right to control their taking of a photograph in situations like this.  Why should we as photographers have a right to take the photograph of someone who clearly doesn't want to be photographed?  Really, how much effort does it take to ask someone if they mind having their photograph taken?



I have to agree with you. Maybe the OP could've handled it differently but if she didn't want her picture taken then she should have the right to request them to stop and ask them to delete any photos of her. Yeah deleted photos can be recovered but the person should be respected. Who knows maybe she's in witness protection, running from an abusive husband or the million other reasons she didn't want her picture taken. 

There have been some people on here who I wouldn't want to see snapping pictures of me - like this one guy who wanted to publish a book of photos of girls butts that he took without the women knowing. 

I also don't think that her screen name means anything or has anything to do with not wanting her picture taken.


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## HughGuessWho (Feb 7, 2012)

jowensphoto said:


> HughGuessWho said:
> 
> 
> > There is a difference between what is LEGALLY right and what us MORALLY right. I agree that it would not be difficult to ask first. BUT a person cannot logically expect "privacy" when they are in public. I don't think you gave a legal obligation unless you use the picture for profit. And, as a photographer / artist, its mighty difficult taking candid "street shots" when you inform the person that you are about to take their picture. Just sayin'.
> ...



I didnt suggest it was. Responding to tirediron's point I'm simply says that one may feel that they have an obligation to ask someone before they take their picture, based on THEIR Moral Convictions. And that fine. Nothing wrong with that. But you have no LEGAL obligation to do so. Just my opinion. Can you say "Google-Mobile"?


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## jowensphoto (Feb 7, 2012)

HughGuessWho said:


> jowensphoto said:
> 
> 
> > HughGuessWho said:
> ...



Ahhhh gotcha. I see what you're saying now.


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## jowensphoto (Feb 7, 2012)

Google-mobile? Not sure I follow... must.get.sleep.


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## HughGuessWho (Feb 7, 2012)

MTVision said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And I agree 100%. Going full circle back to my Moral vs Legal comment. Just because something is LEGAL, it doesnt mean you SHOULD do it. A considetate and decent person would agree to not take any more pictures, if asked and would delete what were already taken. BUT, it this person macrched up to me and DEMANDED that I delete them (her words), I would have laughed at her, even if I deleted them on my own after the fact, I would not have given her that satisfaction.


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## bhop (Feb 7, 2012)

tirediron said:


> bhop said:
> 
> 
> > Meh.. I disagree. It's just a photo from across the bar in a _public_ environment. *Her privacy was not violated*. People are just way too sensitive these days over nothing.
> ...



Because she was in a public place.  She simply had no expectation of privacy.  People that want privacy in a bar pay for the vip rooms, or don't go to them.

I personally don't take pics of people I don't know in bars or whatever, but it's not any invasion of privacy unless the establishment says photography's not allowed.


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## HughGuessWho (Feb 7, 2012)

jowensphoto said:


> Google-mobile? Not sure I follow... must.get.sleep.



The Google cars that are driving down the roads in most every populated area taking pictures of ANYTHING and EVERYTHING within view from the public road. Surely everyone has heard about that. People have been photographed in every imaginable way. And I think one should be much more concerned with what pictures Google has than some guy taking picture with his cell phone.

Again, just my opinion.


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## jowensphoto (Feb 7, 2012)

Again, gotcha. LOL

Some of those google photos are ridiculous; drug deals, sex acts, police brutality. Ridiculous.


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## mishele (Feb 7, 2012)

Wow, somebody is a little high on themself.....lol
Beauty is only skin deep....huh?!    lol

S sorry I missed this party yesterday!!!


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## tirediron (Feb 7, 2012)

bhop said:


> Because she was in a public place. She simply had no expectation of privacy.


First of all, she was NOT in a public place, she was in publicly accessible private property.  NOT the same thing at all.  Being a curious person by nature, I took a few minutes of my lunch-hour to look further into it (and note: I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one television), and it seems that there are a couple of potential precidents in Canadian law regarding violation of the reasonable expectation of privacy  that _could_ apply depending on the type of venue.


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## CCericola (Feb 7, 2012)

I'm 99% sure this story is fake folks.


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## jwbryson1 (Feb 7, 2012)

If I were the OP, I would have just walked up to the photographer and said look, Schwettylens, I get that you like to take pics and all but would you mind not taking any more of me?  I'm having a "bad hair day."  Thanks, Schwett man!  (C'mon, I kid!)

  :smileys:


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## tirediron (Feb 7, 2012)

jwbryson1 said:


> If I were the OP, I would have just walked up to the photographer and said look, Schwettylens, I get that you like to take pics and all but would you mind not taking any more of me? I'm having a "bad hair day." Thanks, Schwett man! (C'mon, I kid!)
> 
> :smileys:


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## bhop (Feb 7, 2012)

tirediron said:


> bhop said:
> 
> 
> > Because she was in a public place. She simply had no expectation of privacy.
> ...



You're right, it's not the same, but from what I understand of the way things work down here, the photography laws on private property are set by the property owners.  Maybe it's different there, or maybe i'm completely wrong, I dunno..  and I plan to use my lunch break to eat lunch, so maybe i'll never know.

At this point, I don't really care anymore, or care to have an internet argument about it, since it seems the OP is gone and i'll never find out why she was so upset at a simple photo or what she _thought_ the dude might've done with it anyway.


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## HughGuessWho (Feb 7, 2012)

I agree it's fiction too, as I stated yesterday. The facts, as told, just don't add up.


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## HughGuessWho (Feb 7, 2012)

tirediron said:


> Unfortunately Vixxen, you are out of luck. As distasteful and innapropriate as this person was being, he did nothing illegal. The Canadian law(s) as they apply are:
> 
> The Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which states that: "You are guaranteed the right to take photographs, and publish them. You are guaranteed the right to express yourself through photography, and you have the freedom to publish the photos you take. Unless you are arrested, the Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees your right to take photographs of anything you want, as well as publish them."
> 
> ...



From Yesterday

I'm Done. Over 'n Out


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## bhop (Feb 7, 2012)

HughGuessWho said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> > Unfortunately Vixxen, you are out of luck. As distasteful and innapropriate as this person was being, he did nothing illegal. The Canadian law(s) as they apply are:
> ...



Wow, tirediron was bustin' my balls after he'd posted that?


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## The_Traveler (Feb 7, 2012)

On the other hand, I was in a local library and caught the librarian trying to sneak a shot up the leg of my pants.
She smirked at me, told me she heard I went 'commando' and smirked again - even more lewdly.
I jumped across the table, took my library card (which I keep honed to a fine edge) and slashed her bun right off.
Of course she yelled for security but when they came (two 16 year old girls, one in a mini skirt and a tube top, the other in halter and shorts) I explained how I had been abused.
Well, they took her out back and beat the crap out of her.
In compensation, I can keep my books out for three weeks instead of two and she had to pay my book fines for a year.
That showed that *****.


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## tirediron (Feb 7, 2012)

bhop said:
			
		

> Wow, tirediron was bustin' my balls after he'd posted that?



That was my initial thought, however as is often the case, further research seemed to indicate that the situation was not so clear-cut. Even I can sometimes get it wrong!


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## Josh66 (Feb 7, 2012)

The_Traveler said:


> Of course she yelled for security but when they came (two 16 year old girls, one in a mini skirt and a tube top, the other in halter and shorts) I explained how I had been abused.
> [...]
> That showed that *****.


I hope she also got fired for yelling in the library.  Damn *****...


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## bhop (Feb 7, 2012)

tirediron said:


> bhop said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No hard feelings.


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