# How to position softbox on boom arm?



## adamhiram

I recently picked up a boom arm to use in my lighting setup, and was wondering if anyone had any tips on positioning a softbox on it?  As a simple example, let's say I want to position a rectangular softbox angled down at 45 degrees from above, such as with with butterfly lighting or illuminating the background.

On a standard light stand, this is fairly straightforward - just mount it and angle it down.  However this results in a light stand being in the shot, which is the whole reason for using a boom arm.




 

If I position the boom arm at exactly 90 degrees to the light stand, positioning the softbox is still pretty simple.  Instead of the spigot being vertical, now it's horizontal, and I just pivot the boom arm to get the angle I am looking for.



 

But what about when the boom arm is on an angle, which seems like a pretty common setup?  Without a ball head or additional angled adapter on the end, I now have 2 adjustments to make, neither of which seems as straightforward.  I have to pivot the boom arm to get it close, then angle the light until it is on the right plane, before mounting the softbox and positioning the stand where I want it.



 

Is there a simpler way to make these adjustments?  Am I better off using the arm at a right angle to make positioning of the light easier?

I've used larger boom arms with geared controls, such as the Manfrotto 025BS super boom that makes these adjustments much easier, but I'm working with an inexpensive Impact Mid-Range Boom Arm with an S-Type Speed Light Adapter, making adjustments more tedious, albeit at 1/8 the cost.


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## smoke665

My boom has a stud just like my stands. The studio lights have a tilt adjustment that lets you adjust the light. On a flash I use something similar to this. The bottom attaches to the stud, and the flash slips in the top. You can find them on ebay cheap.


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## adamhiram

smoke665 said:


> On a flash I use something similar to this.


I'm not sure I follow...  An umbrella/speedlight swivel adapter gives the same range of motion as my S-type adapter, except now I can use Bowens-mount modifiers - unless you are suggesting that I use a swivel adapter to get the mount back to horizontal before mounting the light and softbox?


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## tirediron

Consider that you don't need the boom for every scenario!  I avoid booms unless they're necessary - generally when I have to bring in a light overhead from the side.  If I wanted to use for say clamshell upper, I would have the lightstand on one side of the talent and bring the boom in at 80 degrees to the lens axis.


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## smoke665

adamhiram said:


> unless you are suggesting that I use a swivel adapter to get the mount back to horizontal before mounting the light and softbox?



Now you may have me confused LOL  In the last series of photos, you were showing your modifier mounted and the flash mounted to it. Using the umbrella/adaptor, your flash mounts to it, then you modifier to the mount. But now I'm not sure I'm understanding your question.

I don't have any problem setting my lights from full down to full up or anything in between. If the boom is angled up I sometimes rotate the boom so the stud points down, and the light "hangs" from the stud.


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## adamhiram

smoke665 said:


> Now you may have me confused LOL In the last series of photos, you were showing your modifier mounted and the flash mounted to it. Using the umbrella/adaptor, your flash mounts to it, then you modifier to the mount. But now I'm not sure I'm understanding your question.


The S-type speed light bracket pictured above just allows me to use my speed lights as if they were studio lights that mount on a spigot and have a Bowens adapter on the front.  I left the actual softbox off for the photos to make it easier to show what I was adjusting.

Based on @tirediron's comments, it sounds like I may already have my answer...  For $600, I can get a boom with geared controls to easily make whatever adjustments I need; for $70 I have to make multiple off-axis adjustments until the light & modifier are positioned as desired.


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## smoke665

adamhiram said:


> smoke665 said:
> 
> 
> 
> On a flash I use something similar to this.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure I follow...  An umbrella/speedlight swivel adapter gives the same range of motion as my S-type adapter, except now I can use Bowens-mount modifiers - unless you are suggesting that I use a swivel adapter to get the mount back to horizontal before mounting the light and softbox?
Click to expand...


I very seldom use a speedlight in studio anymore unless it's very directed with a gridded snoot for a highlight, but this is how I would mount it to the boom. Any modifier would then attach to the flash.


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## JBPhotog

Your dilemma is the normal operation for a non-geared boom arm when it is on a non-parallel plane to the floor. You will always have to change both the axis' to get to the angle you want. I usually start with the rotation of the boom arm in the boom clamp to get the head pointing in the direction you want(feathered or direct to subject). Then adjust the tilt of the head to fine tune direction. You can get close to what you want if you make rudimentary adjustments before you raise the boom height.

Get a small step ladder to reach your flash head to make further adjustments.


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## mrca

I'm with tired, you don't need a "boom arm" and those seem overkill for speedlights.  For clam shell I use a rolling stand and only need the beauty dish or octa a foot or two from the stand to keep it out of the shot so use a solid steel 40 inch arm and use a knuckle on the stand to set the distance and angle.  I use a stud to keep the head at about a 45 degree angle.  I find with a bare head my einstein won't pivot around the end of a boom arm but hang any sort of modifier and it wants to slip.   Here is a photo of something I was testing, not sure what.  BD is further from stand than it even need be.  Could get away with the 20 inch instead of 40 inch arm but I like to counter balance at the other end.  Lower tinker toy  arrangement gets me low clamshell/fill and no low catch light I have to remove in post.   On bd arm,  knuckle at stand should be in front so weight of gear at end of arm  tightens, opposite here but just didn't bother because no one here but me and going to hang light at other end when done.   Always "tighty righty."   Lock tightens to right and weight of gear then pulls down in that direction tightening, not loosening.    In second shot note how blue handle on lower tightens in direction of weight of  the light


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## JBPhotog

mrca said:


> I'm with tired, you don't need a "boom arm" and those seem overkill for speedlights.  For clam shell I use a rolling stand and only need the beauty dish or octa a foot or two from the stand to keep it out of the shot so use a solid steel 40 inch arm and use a knuckle on the stand to set the distance and angle.  I use a stud to keep the head at about a 45 degree angle.  I find with a bare head my einstein won't pivot around the end of a boom arm but hang any sort of modifier and it wants to slip.   Here is a photo of something I was testing, not sure what.  BD is further from stand than it even need be.  Could get away with the 20 inch instead of 40 inch arm but I like to counter balance at the other end.  Lower tinker toy  arrangement gets me low clamshell/fill and no low catch light I have to remove in post.   On bd arm,  knuckle at stand should be in front so weight of gear at end of arm  tightens, opposite here but just didn't bother because no one here but me and going to hang light at other end when done.   Always "tighty righty."   Lock tightens to right and weight of gear then pulls down in that direction tightening, not loosening.    In second shot note how blue handle on lower tightens in direction of weight of  the light View attachment 158755 View attachment 158756



Granted a boom arm is not required for every set up however, a "foot or two from the stand" is way too short for a full length or group set up. You can achieve more length on your BD set up if you position the head spigot parallel to the arm, no need to have it at a right angle. It will also reduce the CofG hanging off the flash head end of the rig thus minimizing the twist effect. I am not familiar with Einstien but one should be able to tighten the stand clamp so it doesn't slip, my Speedo's don't, YMMV. You could consider filing a flat spot on one of your spigots so the stand clamp on the head has a non-rotational purchase point.

When I do a clam shell set up I use a backlight stand either mounting the head directly on the stand or using a short extension to elevate it off the ground if needed. It is much more secure and there is nothing projecting above the light modifier for a less cluttered view, necessary again for full length shots.


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## mrca

JB, I have a short stand but it only goes down to about a foot.  I dont have one like yours above, but have a plate with a stud screwed to a piece of board that puts my bg light on the floor.  However, Op was talking about butterfly lighting and that is something I generally do with only one subject.   Op said nothing about group shots and is just starting with lighting and probably doesn't have large groups to shoot.   Besides, I would recommend a novice start with one person before adding the complexity of two not to mention that beauty lighting is not flattering for most face shapes like loop or rembrandt is.   Another common use for a  boom as a hair, shoulder light strikes me a so 90's and was a more common use for it in the past.  My boom arm is huge and I can't remember the last time I used it -yes I can, booming a camera with a fisheye lens  over subjects) and think someone purchasing their first gear, that should be way down on the list.   Only  10-15 percent of my purchases are full length and many of those are out doors.  I don't boom there, but place the light to one side and feather the hot spot to the other side of the group to even it out and still give form.   When I do clamshell it is usually a headshot.   The reason I like the rolling adjustable height of the stand is I can roll it in and out or up and down to easily remove the low catchlight saving time in post  and instantly bring it up to waist level from touching the floor for the traditional clamshell shooting between the slot between the 2 modifiers.  Also, can swing the armvertically instantly to be able to shoot it as fill without changing stands.    When you hear the dreaded "you only have 5 minutes" line, being able to quickly change setups means more lighting setups, more shots and translates into more sales.   Need I mention a meter figures in that but few listen.  Speedlights are light weight, an einstein weighs 5 lbs and add a large or even heavy modifier it increases leverage on the attachment.   It's a whole different ball game of stands and grip gear when using 5lb lights and say a 7 foot octa.   I actually purchased a steel, not brass stud for that because the weight/leverage snapped a brass stud.  I have 5 speedlights that haven't been used in 8 years except to hide a light where I can't an einstein.   And they are great in portability, but I have a rolling cart, rolling hardshell golf case and a rolling huge pelican case so portability doesn't outweigh the power, adjustability from camera, modeling light and wonderful modifiers.   80 watt seconds vs 640 is no contest expecially when the 640 dials down to 2.5.  My speedlights  get as much use a my boom arm for multiple light setups.


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## Derrel

I have a couple Manfrotto heavy-duty booms with roller-based stands...neither are geared...it takes only seconds to make the adjustments needed. I've always lived with the standard operating procedure, and have dutifully made adjustments to stand height, arm length, counterweight positioning, and flash head angle, for every shot, so perhaps I do not quite understand the "question" being asked in this post. Maybe the question is being posed because a speedlight isn't offering the same type of adjustment ease and speed as a Speedotron flash head? Anyway...I honestly do not see the need for a geared boom, unless it's going to be used a LOT, and speed is of the essence.


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## JBPhotog

mrca, your floor plate and a magic arm can yield some height flexibility when needed.

My photography is not limited to just a person, I shoot commercially. Therefore a boom is indispensable, in fact I have three of them along with large Chimera’s and steel studs on all my boom spigots. Geared booms are nice for the studio but a bit challenging for location work but I always include a boom in the location kit.


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## adamhiram

Thank you for the great replies, I think I got the answer I was looking for.  If I position the boom arm horizontally, I only need to adjust the softbox on one axis for the scenario described.  If the boom is at an angle other than 90 degrees, I have to make 2 adjustments to get the softbox positioned in the correct plane.  Just something I’ll have to get used to I suppose.

A few additional thoughts based on comments in this thread...

I don’t intend to use a boom arm with every setup, or even necessarily with butterfly lighting,  where it is easy enough to move the stand a few inches to shoot past it.  It was just an example I mentioned that I thought would be easy to visualize.  Occasionally I have wished I had a boom arm for a particular setup, and wanted to ensure I was using it correctly.
My question didn't really have anything to do with speed lights.  I happen to use them mounted into an adapter that lets me use Bowens mount modifiers, but my question was about positioning a softbox, and would have been the same whether these were $65 speed lights, $2000 Profoto monolights, or anything in between.  I still only have 2 axes of movement - the light (or adapter) can tilt forward and back, and it can spin or pivot on the spigot on the light stand or boom arm.
I was pleasantly surprised to discover that the spigot on the boom arm has a flat side on both ends, preventing it from slipping when I put a heavier modifier on it.  Bonus!
Thanks again for the great feedback and tips!


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## mrca

Derrel added an excellent point. Scooting a stand with a boom arm sticking out several feet is a real pain.  A rolling stand is the way to go.   I think $600 can be better spent on other gear.   If you do buy one, the one shortcoming of my  boom arm is it has an open hook at the end rather than a ring and if it turns sideway, the hanging  counter weight can fall off.


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## mrca

JB, I too shoot commercially but a boom arm is something I just don't use much.  I have learned to work without one.  I try not to design shoots that call for one.   Good suggestion on the magic arm, never purchased one either, hence some pretty  rube goldberg tinkertoy creations.   I try to be able to make light changes quickly and often have extra lights already mounted and in my last studio had some permanently mounted for bg lights.   What do you use the boom are for most frequently?   Would be great if that beast got more usage.


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## JBPhotog

mrca: For me, tabletop product shots nearly always require a boom, it’s my go to to hang a light over the table. Essentially, any set up where I need a light over or in front of the subject it gets boomed, I dislike mounting the light on stands if I am required to peer around them or compromise the shot because the legs are in the way or the shot.

On a recent shoot I mounted my BD on a boom and the fill light on the floor stand, I also used a fan for hair effects which was mounted on a stand. The boom and floor stand offered uncluttered advantages as the subject was in motion with the fan blowing and allowed me to place the fan anywhere I needed.

A gridded head backlighting the subject (in this case a product) is also another application where a boom is handy since a stand would have been in the shot.

My lighting supports are used only when they achieve the look I am after, right tool for the job so to speak. Thus my kit includes a variety of grip gear.


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## mrca

JB, thanks for the insights.  I do little product or full length so not as important for me.    But I definitely see an advantage for the light over the table.  You could position it behind what ever  you use as a back ground and keep the sides of the table as useable as possible.  I will keep it in mind as I am getting ready to sell some gear and like to light it myself  for the photos.


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## JBPhotog

mrca, you are welcome. My avatar is an example of overhead illumination I shot using a medium soft box and lots of reflector cards. Shiny steel sees everything and controlling how much spill in front and behind the subject can be measured inch by inch, a little OCD if you are into that,


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## mrca

Yes, I use lots of white and black cards when shooting product.  You must have much patience to shoot product.     Unfortunately, didn't have time and didn't think the movers could move my black plexi 3000 miles without scratching it so need to purchase some here.


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## JBPhotog

No black plexi used in that shot, black velvet background to absorb all the light spill. Loads of white cards, some flags and wire diffusion frames to control the highlights.

I can usually get by with a 4’x4’ surface unless I need a cove, then 4’x8’ laminate, paper, cloth or plexi does the job.


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## mrca

JB, I could tell that was black velvet, I never leave home with out mine and gaffer tape.  I used the black plexi for reflection shots like this.  Darn $70 piece I left in CA knew they would scratch it.


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## adamhiram

A quick follow-up...  Here is one of the use cases I mentioned, where I am using it with a medium soft box to light the background.  It's nice being able to light from above for more even lighting with the stand out of the way.




20180604-DSC_7986a by adamhiram, on Flickr


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## JBPhotog

Good use of a boom for your application. It may be some barrel distortion of the lens but make sure your boom is balanced with the counter weight so the forces are pushing straight down the stand and not bending the stand extensions.


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## adamhiram

JBPhotog said:


> Good use of a boom for your application. It may be some barrel distortion of the lens but make sure your boom is balanced with the counter weight so the forces are pushing straight down the stand and not bending the stand extensions.


Thanks!  It's a little of both - I shot this at 17mm so there's some distortion, but I also used the bare minimum weight in the sandbag for it to not fall over - a few flashlights and a tape measure if I remember correctly...  I have a $2 bag of gravel/stones on my Home Depot shopping list.


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## JBPhotog

If you are handy, there are a few DIY sand bag plans on the interweb. Make yourself a longer sand bag filled with play sand and sling it over the stand collar above the legs for added stability.


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## Berkeley Mike

adamhiram said:


> A quick follow-up...  Here is one of the use cases I mentioned, where I am using it with a medium soft box to light the background.  It's nice being able to light from above for more even lighting with the stand out of the way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 20180604-DSC_7986a by adamhiram, on Flickr


Dude! More sandbags for the bases of your stands! 5 lbs for background stands. At least 10 on the boom and light bases, maybe more; you have a fair bit of weight up in the air.


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