# angela



## JimmyJaceyMom (Oct 22, 2007)

Are these too dark?  Welll not the first one but the rest?  I know that the focus is weird in number 2 I was trying hard to get her eyes in focus but her mouth looks too blurry and since its a big part of the pic I guess it doesn't work. 
But anyhow, in photobucket these look very dark - but on flickr I think it looks fine.  Also they look green? when uploaded in photobucket I see a green cast but in editing and flickr and my blog I dont see the green. hmmmm.
Anyway.  Her mom actually cried when she saw them -  a first for me. So I guess that she likes them matters but I want them to be right y'know.  Any cc appreciated.  



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## Flash Harry (Oct 22, 2007)

your colors are off, use the levels, image-adjust-levels, use the pickers to set black point/white point and go from there with the saturation tool and finish with USM


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## heip (Oct 22, 2007)

These are not too dark on my monitor Cathi and it was calibrated just a few days ago.
I'm not a big fan on the pose in #3 but the rest of them rock Cathi, especially #1, 4 & 5. 
I like what you've done with the colours. I do see a very slight green cast to a couple of them but it takes nothing away from the shots.
I'm guessing you already know that your shooting too wide when parts of the face are in and out of focus like in #2, unless that's what you're going for.  
Very nice series Kathi, I love seeing your new posts come up!


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## Flash Harry (Oct 22, 2007)

The whole point of monitor calibration is to get colors right, a slight cast of any color and the photography is ****, so whats the point. I served my time having shots berated and binned due to incorrect colour balance/casts, it cost me hundreds getting it right so dont be advising that this doesnt detract from the images, it does. Learn the craft, do it right, don't give clients poorly crafted imagery. H


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## skieur (Oct 22, 2007)

heip said:


> I like what you've done with the colours. I do see a very slight green cast to a couple of them but it takes nothing away from the shots.


 
Flash Harry is correct.  Getting the colour wrong and having any slight colour cast does take away from shots and is unacceptable for any serious pro and this is a professional forum as per the title.

skieur


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## NJMAN (Oct 22, 2007)

What I like best about this series is the incredible focus on the face and eyes.  However, I'm not sure what kind of effect you are going for with the color.   Are they supposed to be sepia tone with selective color on the clothes?  If so, I think you did well.  If not, I think some work needs to be done to achieve accurate skin tone and appropriate color in the clothing.  Overall, I think you did good capturing this lovely young girl.


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## NateS (Oct 22, 2007)

The composition of all these are great in my opinion, but I agree that the colors are somewhat flat and bland.  It's nothing that a little PP work couldn't fix though.


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## JimmyJaceyMom (Oct 22, 2007)

Flash Harry - Those edits are awesome.  Unfortunately for me I dont have photoshop so I will have to find another way - i did shoot these in RAW+jpeg but I was having trouble editing the RAW images - will that help me to get the colors right or no?
I wouldnt think to give a client poorly crafted imagery as you were saying but I wasn't sure the cast existed until I asked about it and I see that these can be better with some help.  That's why I'm here -   Thanks.



Heip - I am glad you like my posts   I'm glad to see your comments.  I do know I was shooting too wide in a few.  I'll have to look for that in the future - thanks. 


skier - I know that Flash Harry is correct and that getting it right is crucial in order to consider yourself a serious professional.  I am continuously reading, shooting, asking advice, looking for inspiration and trying to understand everything I can about photography as an art and a business.
I think that what heip is saying is that, as a person looking at the photos in his personal opinon he sees something good in the images wether there is a color cast or not.  KWIM?  Just as her mother did.
Am I happy that these are not the best they could be?  Certainly not.  I am here to find out what I can do to make my photographs not good, not great but one day excellent.  Any advice I recieve here is greatly appreciated.  The reason I thank each person individually is because each person has their own specific idea, comment, and information in their own reply.  
I think maybe rather than choosing to quote heip and saying that his thoughts are wrong, it may be more helpful to tell me directly that there is a color cast in my pictures and that it is unacceptable instead of discrediting another's opinion.
It's very hard to type this without sounding like it's delivered with an attitude - I do not mean it that way.  Even if you plainly stated  "these pictures suck!' I would appreciate it and I am not joking.  


njman - I need to work on the colors...  y'know. 


NateS- I'm gald you like the comp, though some do not follow the rule of thirds.  I am going to try to work out my color issues this evening if I can.


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## Flash Harry (Oct 23, 2007)

Calibrate your monitor firstly then the best way to get colours right is to judge them within a couple of seconds of opening, if your initial response is they are off colour, then, its most likely they are. If you see no colour shift in the first look dont keep looking as your brain will make compensation for the shift.
Which image editor are you using? you should be able to adjust levels and curves in any editor and your raw editor/converter will be able to tweak the shots too.
Without a good calibration none of this will work out but you might still  be able to tweak the images by setting up your camera better, oh and don't stick to the rules, 1/3s or any other, shoot the way you like, an individual style is a moneyspinner in this game. H


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## Flash Harry (Oct 23, 2007)

Calibrate your monitor firstly then the best way to get colours right is to judge them within a couple of seconds of opening, if your initial response is they are off colour, then, its most likely they are. If you see no colour shift in the first look dont keep looking as your brain will make compensation for the shift.
Which image editor are you using? you should be able to adjust levels and curves in any editor and your raw editor/converter will be able to tweak the shots too.
Without a good calibration none of this will work out but you might still  be able to tweak the images by setting up your camera better, oh and don't stick to the rules, 1/3s or any other, shoot the way you like, an individual style is a moneyspinner in this game. H


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## JimmyJaceyMom (Oct 23, 2007)

Flash Harry - thanks again for your help.  I only have the editing program that came with my camera and its kind of simple, not a lot to it.  THe only thing I can do to 'fix' color is to add and take away the yellow/reds/greens/blue/cyan/magenta and like you were saying - once you look at it so long your brain compensates I totally know what you mean.  I tried what I can with one in my editing program - any better at all?
I still want to keep them though - i will try my best to make them the best they can be and I understand that just becuase the mother loves them it doesnt mean they are great but she does so I'll take the good points from them and try harder to get the bad things right next time.  Thanks 
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2255/1712111478_e8ace58b76.jpg


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## wildmaven (Oct 23, 2007)

Oooo...I like that edit of yours!  Much more vibrant!

Marian


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## JimmyJaceyMom (Oct 23, 2007)

Thanks Marian - I will go in this direction more in editing the others from this series.


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## elsaspet (Oct 23, 2007)

Not dark, but dark in nature.  I'd love to see some inner light here.


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## JimmyJaceyMom (Oct 23, 2007)

elsaspet said:


> Not dark, but dark in nature. I'd love to see some inner light here.


 

do you mean her lack of enthusiatsic happiness?  LOL you're right.  At twelve years ols she is a very serious child.  Has already written a book and had it published.  Straight A's, very good girl.  Just very... serious.  I know I need to bring out the other sides of people but this girl isnt necessarily unhappy, just too old in her head or her real age.   THanks for the comments.  
I know she was thinking these weren't going to look good - I think 12 is an awful age for thinking you look good but her mom said when she showed them to her she said "I don't want to see."  But when she looked she was on the phone in minutes directing her friends to my flickr. LOL
I think if we do this again her confidence will come through which might crack a big smile or two.

These pictures aren't perfect but if I made her feel good about herself then I am somewhat satisfied.  I'll work on them some more.


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## skieur (Oct 23, 2007)

If you don't have Photoshop..perhaps because it is pricey, you might consider Paint Shop Pro at well under a $100.  It is quite similar in terms of function and uses the same plug-ins as Photoshop.

skieur


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## JimmyJaceyMom (Oct 23, 2007)

skieur said:


> If you don't have Photoshop..perhaps because it is pricey, you might consider Paint Shop Pro at well under a $100. It is quite similar in terms of function and uses the same plug-ins as Photoshop.
> 
> skieur


 
thanks for that information - i am going to have to check that out.  I am struggling with this editing program that came with and I used to have GIMP which also has a lot more options but for some reason I cannot download it correctly - even GIMP would be better than what I have going on.  I'll look into that program - thanks a lot.


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## oldnavy170 (Oct 23, 2007)

Kathi, I think these are cute.  I was surprised to read she was only 12 years old.  Its funny how kids look older then they really are!

Keep up your good work!


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## AprilRamone (Oct 23, 2007)

Or try Photoshop Elements!  It can do a lot that Photoshop can and will get you by for awhile, although, managing the colors is still pretty difficult at least in 2.0

Or you can get lightroom.  I just got it and I love how you can tweak the colors so easily in this program.  I got it on Ebay for only $245  Pricey for some, but well worth the $.  It's only $300 brand new.

Also, in my opinion, these are the best shots you've posted.  I like what Wild Maven did (or was it you who did it? I'm confused by the text) with that shot and I'd like to see the colors boosted a little more.  But, I think your composition is definitely on the right track and for a lot of people, that's the hardest part of photography.  

12 years old is a tough age to shoot.  It's a really awkward part of most people's lives and I think it's ok that she seems rather serious or thoughtful.  I think you did a good job of portraying where she's at in her life.


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## ~Stella~ (Oct 23, 2007)

PS Elements can be had for around $80 and does a good job of correcting color casts.  I'm seeing more of a yellow cast than green per se, but I do like the muted tone overall - it sets off her huge eyes.

I think she is a beautiful child and I think you did a great job capturing her character, which _is_ serious.  You don't want to portray a giggling preteen if that doesn't represent her true self.


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## JimmyJaceyMom (Oct 23, 2007)

old navy - thanks for your comments I am happy to hear form you as always.   Yup she's like 12 going on 30!

AprilRAmone - thanks for the advice and comments.  I am glad you think of these as the better of shots I have posted because i liek them too but i did know the cast would throw them off.  I am glad I asked youguys cause I know now what to do about that.
I have downloaded a 30 day free trial of elements 6.0 and was just playing around in ther - IT IS SO COOL!!!!   I can't imagine myself even knowing what to do with more than what is offered there!  I am going ot do the trial and try to save up the 100 bucks or so befor ethe trial is over.
And yes I did the re-edit but I had only posted the link to it and she put it up for me - that was nice. 

stella - thanks.   I think it;s cool that her mother was happy with these before I 'fix' them.  She'll most likely be that much happier with them afterwards!  She really isnt a giggling preteen as you said - she reads and writes and is a happy child but just takes everything seriously.  I admire her maturity - I'M not even that mature yet and I'm 28.  hee hee.


THANKS TO EVERYONE THAT RECOMMENDED ELEMENTS TO ME - IT SEEMS AWESOME.  It may just help me get over a few of the hurdles I have been trying to overcome.  I can maybe get creative now!




Thanks to everyone that recommended that to me - it's like a whole new world!


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## Flash Harry (Oct 24, 2007)

K

the edit is better with the added saturation but your still lacking a little "pop" try upping the brightness/levels/ or curves till her hair looks more like it should  as its brown really and not the jet black you've arrived at, once the color is correct then add more saturation, we'll get you there yet gal. H

PS. Forgot to mention I like the work too, nice comp/poses, keep it up you have the eye, its just training it for color is a lengthy process, especially if you produce prints yourself, if you use a pro lab they can do it for you but there's more satisfaction knowing you can "see" it yourself, it also comes in handy when you pick up your prints if whoever sorts them for you has a bad day and doesn't get it right. H


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## JimmyJaceyMom (Oct 24, 2007)

Oh thanks flash harry.  I will continue to try to get the color correct in the camera - I have a question - I have my paramers set the the default that came with the camera as far as saturation/shrapness/contrast and whatnot.  Should any of those be fiddled with do you think?


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## stellar_gal (Oct 24, 2007)

Good job on these compositons and the fall atmosphere is great.  I too am struggling with a color cast with my last session and it can be a pain. I know you'll have good luck with your trial software and maybe you can get the full version.  Anythings better than the camera software, but if its all ya got....

A far as your camera settings, its personal preference.  I have my 30D set on the standard for most of my shoots but sometimes I'll plus one on the contrast and sat just for something very colorful.  Just make sure yours isnt set on too much sharpening since thats hard to fix. I accidentally had the sharpness on zero somehow last month and all my photos had a bad fog on them. Drove me nuts trying to figure out why.  Not sure how that happened but was easy to fix in PP.  

You can play with your settings some and do some people test shots to see if you like it another way and you may like it better straight out of the camera.  Good luck Kathi.


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## JimmyJaceyMom (Oct 24, 2007)

stellar_gal said:


> Good job on these compositons and the fall atmosphere is great. I too am struggling with a color cast with my last session and it can be a pain. I know you'll have good luck with your trial software and maybe you can get the full version. Anythings better than the camera software, but if its all ya got....
> 
> A far as your camera settings, its personal preference. I have my 30D set on the standard for most of my shoots but sometimes I'll plus one on the contrast and sat just for something very colorful. Just make sure yours isnt set on too much sharpening since thats hard to fix. I accidentally had the sharpness on zero somehow last month and all my photos had a bad fog on them. Drove me nuts trying to figure out why. Not sure how that happened but was easy to fix in PP.
> 
> You can play with your settings some and do some people test shots to see if you like it another way and you may like it better straight out of the camera. Good luck Kathi.


 

LOL one time I accidentally set my sharpness the opposite - all the way UP!  It was horrible because that is like not too easy to fix at all!  The hair was awful!  I was thinking goodness that it was only a practice shoot with a friend's daughter.    Thnaks for your comments - enjoy the beautiful colors now - they'll be gone before we know it -


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## stellar_gal (Oct 24, 2007)

I bet that was aweful with that sharpness.  We learn good from those kinds of mistakes.  BTW, I just shot a 13 yr old girl last weekend along with her siblings.  I know that age now, mine are usually younger than that, thankfully.  At least you got a smile.  I got one quick grin- once.  The rest she looks mad.  She refused to take her hair out of the boyish ponytail, didnt wear any makeup and wore a red tshirt.  I'll post some of them tomorrow if I remember between naps.


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## Flash Harry (Oct 25, 2007)

I'm not familiar with the canon system but I would try tweaking both of those settings but try it on the kids till you get what looks best before shooting a paying customer, by the way you said you shot raw+jpeg, how do the jpegs look straight from the camera are they better than your raw conversions for the colours. H


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## elsaspet (Oct 25, 2007)

JimmyJaceyMom said:


> do you mean her lack of enthusiatsic happiness? LOL you're right. At twelve years ols she is a very serious child. Has already written a book and had it published. Straight A's, very good girl. Just very... serious. I know I need to bring out the other sides of people but this girl isnt necessarily unhappy, just too old in her head or her real age.  THanks for the comments.
> I know she was thinking these weren't going to look good - I think 12 is an awful age for thinking you look good but her mom said when she showed them to her she said "I don't want to see." But when she looked she was on the phone in minutes directing her friends to my flickr. LOL
> I think if we do this again her confidence will come through which might crack a big smile or two.
> 
> These pictures aren't perfect but if I made her feel good about herself then I am somewhat satisfied. I'll work on them some more.


 
Hi Kathi,
It's hard for me to describe.  She just seems really shy to me, like she's not connected to the whole thing.  Nothing really you can do about that.
I love your dof here, and your composition is really wonderful.
I'm honestly not having any problem with the color here.  There are series of actions built around this 1970 kind of color effects.  It's actually quite popular right now. 
Anyhoo, I agree about PS elements.  It's a very nice little program, and can help you really tweak the colors up a lot.
Hugs,
Cindy


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## Flash Harry (Oct 25, 2007)

Ive just thought of something, check what white balance setting the camera is on also the setting on the raw converter, this would affect the color output. As for using actions to have photographs that look drab/flat/muted in place of vibrant/saturated/correct color then the choice is yours to make, I dont see Elsa offering this type of stuff to her customers and I guarantee if she does she'll soon be looking for a job outside the industry. H


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## JimmyJaceyMom (Oct 25, 2007)

stellar gal - yeah it did pretty much such when i did that with the sharpness.  The worst was that I couldnt see it on my LCD - that was when i still had my XT and the screen wass o small.. I put thos eon my computer and I was liek WAAAHHHH!  LOL
And yeah - I remember what I was liek when i was 13 and I would not have wanted to take my pictures!  no way!  I was a little b*#ch!  LOL

Harry - I think the jpegs look about the same as the raw SOOC - I havent had too much time with my sons birthday yesterday to play with both and see what comes out of them.  But I am taking some pictures of my son with his new skateboard - since they are just for me, I'll try to play with the settings in the camera.  Good idea.

elsaspet - she is very shy adn i think the reason her mom liked these mostly is because if you see the pictures form school or dance, what have you they put he rin odd lighting which doesnt flatter her features and her 'smile' is big and fake y'know.  It just doesnt look like the 'her' that she is now.  
I have reedited a lot of those pictures with the color and given her a choice and funny - she still likes some of them the old way but most of them the new way.


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## skieur (Oct 25, 2007)

AprilRamone said:


> Or try Photoshop Elements! It can do a lot that Photoshop can and will get you by for awhile, although, managing the colors is still pretty difficult at least in 2.0.


 
The difference between PaintShop Pro and Photoshop Elements is that PaintShop Pro has features that are in Photoshop CS3 but NOT in Photoshop Elements.

In other words, PaintShop Pro is closer to Photoshop CS3 than Photoshop Elements.

skieur


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