# You are not a Photographer



## Gaerek (Aug 13, 2011)

Removed by popular demand. I'm sorry for anyone who was offended by the link I posted.


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## chakalakasp (Aug 13, 2011)

As someone who is a photographer, I found that site rather mean-spirited. Yes; there is such thing as bad photography... but singling people out for ridicule is rarely an effective teaching method.


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## Gaerek (Aug 13, 2011)

Hard to single people out when they redact the names of the business. This is simply a list of people who shouldn't be taking people's $20 and giving them a CD with photos. Keep in mind, these people put themselves out there. They're using these photos to try to drum up business. I'm not a pro, but I know if I did a photoshoot with someone, and they turned my daughter into a technicolor butterfly, I'd be asking for my money back and walking out.

Besides, there's some people here who might learn a few things from the mistakes of other.


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## Otahyoni (Aug 13, 2011)

I think one needs to know their limits. For example, i know i can't take good pictures of people, therefore i stick with taking pictures of things. I know i'm not professional, hell, i'm not even a good hobbyist. I enjoy what i do and try to satisfy myselfwhile getting a little better each time i take pictures, which admittedly isn't often enough to really learn much...:blushing:


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## TwoTwoLeft (Aug 13, 2011)

Really?...


Funny, I got hired to do a photo flight a month ago and the Pro Photographer didn't wait for two seconds to go by before he had to tell me he was a pilot too and how awesome he was... The funny thing is, the more he opened his mouth about flying airplanes (trying to tell me how to fly the plane & the rules & regs so he can get his shot) the more he revealed how much of an aviation tool bag he really was.... I sure a hell hope he sticks to photography and stays out of an airplane...

Maybe I should start a website about dumbass photographers who try to tell the professionals they hire how to do their jobs????  

It just makes me all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that no matter how awesome these "professional" photographers are who created this website. There are probably at least a dozen other things in life that they, themselves, completely and utterly suck at as well.


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## Gaerek (Aug 13, 2011)

Otahyoni said:


> I think one needs to know their limits. For example, i know i can't take good pictures of people, therefore i stick with taking pictures of things. I know i'm not professional, hell, i'm not even a good hobbyist. I enjoy what i do and try to satisfy myselfwhile getting a little better each time i take pictures, which admittedly isn't often enough to really learn much...:blushing:



And that's the issue. People think that two weeks with a DSLR, some strobes, a cool background and PSE means they're ready to sell photos.



TwoTwoLeft said:


> Really?...
> 
> 
> Funny, I got hired to do a photo flight a month ago and the Pro Photographer didn't wait for two seconds to go by before he had to tell me he was a pilot too and how awesome he was... The funny thing is, the more he opened his mouth about flying airplanes (trying to tell me how to fly the plane & the rules & regs so he can get his shot) the more he revealed how much of an aviation tool bag he really was.... I sure a hell hope he sticks to photography and stays out of an airplane...
> ...



I hope you were trying to be ironic. You just did the EXACT same thing that you're complaining about. Funny, eh? :er:


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## Neiby (Aug 13, 2011)

I'm a total noob and, to borrow Otahyoni's phrase, I'm not even a good hobbyist. Nevertheless, that website makes me feel so much better out about what I've been doing, so far. Well, some of it anyway. The stuff I didn't delete immediately for massive suckage.


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## Ballistics (Aug 13, 2011)

Gaerek said:


> I hope you were trying to be ironic. You just did the EXACT same thing that you're complaining about. Funny, eh? :er:



There are people who complain and then there are people who complain about people who complain lol.


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## TwoTwoLeft (Aug 13, 2011)

Gaerek said:


> [
> 
> 
> 
> I hope you were trying to be ironic. You just did the EXACT same thing that you're complaining about. Funny, eh? :er:


 
No ***t sherlock...

I just thought I'd share that little nugget of experience I had with one of the "photo pros".

I just can't see why everyone wastes sooo much time worrying about what other people are doing. And doing poorly, for that matter.  It seems to me that time energy would be better put to use to advance yourself or help others get better.


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## Ballistics (Aug 14, 2011)

TwoTwoLeft said:


> Gaerek said:
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> > [
> ...



That would be ideal, but no one does that, because there is more to life than yourself. It would be impossible to gauge yourself if you didn't compare yourself directly to your peers.


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## Gaerek (Aug 14, 2011)

TwoTwoLeft said:
			
		

> No ***t sherlock...
> 
> I just thought I'd share that little nugget of experience I had with one of the "photo pros".
> 
> I just can't see why everyone wastes sooo much time worrying about what other people are doing. And doing poorly, for that matter.  It seems to me that time energy would be better put to use to advance yourself or help others get better.



I suppose we shouldn't compare ourselves to others then? Is that what I'm getting from you? You have the same self righteous attitude that the creators of that website have and you fail to recognize it. 

Website: Look at all this pro fauxtographers and their crappy pics!

Twotwoleft: I don't understand why people worry so much about what other people are doing poorly. BTW, here's my own
story of someone doing something poorly! Enjoy!

If you're going to be against something, you should make sure you're not guilty of doing the same thing. That's called hypocrisy.

If you don't like it, that's fine. But when you sit here wasting time you could be using to better yourself, by telling people they're wasting time they could be using to better themselves, your point kinda gets lost, amirite?


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## TwoTwoLeft (Aug 14, 2011)

I was referring to the website originally posted...

I don't get why some people put all that time and energy into that website just for the sole purpose to bag on other photographers. Seems like that time could be better spent. For example; Like carrying on your own personal crusade in online forums, and whining about which photographers should be allowed to charge for their services...  Yes, that was sarcasm.

I was just sharing a story how these pro photographers arent perfect either. We were shooting an air-to-air, in the photo ship had the utility door off the back. We didn't have a harness so to move around the back with the doors off you have to wear an emergency parachute. The photog complained it was too restrictive and removed it half way through the flight...Aparently rules didn't apply to him.  Then he kept wanting the subject aircraft closer, and to "slip in". Because, they "do it all the time.." I knew the pilot flying the other plane was good but had very little formation experience. I didn't want him that close to us. "Nothing a longer lens couldn't handle", I was thinking but didn't actually TELL him. 

I really don't see how any of that is being self-ritous or hypocritical. This wasn't my first rodeo and I handled the situation was professionally as I could.  No were do I go walking around claiming to be a badass. Putting people down just by the sole purpose of because I feel they deserve it...


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## Gaerek (Aug 14, 2011)

TwoTwoLeft said:


> *I was referring to the website originally posted...*
> 
> I don't get why some people put all that time and energy into that website just for the sole purpose to bag on other photographers. Seems like that time could be better spent. For example; Like carrying on your own personal crusade in online forums, and whining about which photographers should be allowed to charge for their services...  Yes, that was sarcasm.



I see. So wasting your time in your own way is ok, but wasting your time with that website, not ok. I get it. :roll:

I implore you, not to do anything, or watch anything, or support anything that bags on anyone at all. Hey, you're bagging on me right now! Seems like that time could be better spent, eh?

Besides, in the end, I posted this for two reasons. First, it entertained me. I personally couldn't believe what people were pushing off as professional photography. Go about 5 or 6 pages in to see the blurry engagement photo, and try to find the sharp part of the image! Secondly, it serves to show people what not to do, and what not to get caught up in. If this prevents one person from making technicolor butterflys, white vignette, poor use of shallow DoF, or spot/selective coloring, then my job is done, and I've made the photography world a slightly better place.

God forbid we criticize anyone. Wouldn't want to hurt any feelings!

Oh, and to comment on the part of your quote I bolded. You referred to the website, but you wasted your time doing the EXACT SAME THING. How can you not understand the irony there. You are NO BETTER than the people who put that website together. Get off your high horse, realize you're just like the rest of us, and get a freakin sense of humor.


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## TwoTwoLeft (Aug 14, 2011)

It's funny how you get so defensive over everything.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Aug 14, 2011)

Tink said:


> so yeah I have a site with some photos that show my progress as a photographer, I sure hope nobody mocks me but if they do .. oh well! They obviously feel insecure then.



Link?


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## shortpants (Aug 14, 2011)

I think the site is funny. Read the "about", they only post pictures from people who have a business. They're not mocking people that are just learning and/or do it as a hobby.


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## Ballistics (Aug 14, 2011)

Gaerek said:


> TwoTwoLeft said:
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Bingo


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## e.rose (Aug 14, 2011)

Love this blog.  It's hilarious.

I only hope to be a part of it one day... and if I already have been... I missed it... and someone link me to the post where they were ripping me apart because I could use a good roast-induced giggle.


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## Gaerek (Aug 14, 2011)

e.rose said:


> Love this blog.  It's hilarious.
> 
> I only hope to be a part of it one day... and if I already have been... I missed it... and someone link me to the post where they were ripping me apart because I could use a good roast-induced giggle.



Your duckface shot is there.



Just kidding.


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## Vtec44 (Aug 14, 2011)

Phew... my photos are not on that site... yet!


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## adversus (Aug 14, 2011)

The website is wrong.  Anybody who takes photographs on a more than casual basis is a photographer.  The quality of said photographs doesn't matter.  

Also, whoever runs it sounds like a douchebag.


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## Ballistics (Aug 14, 2011)

adversus said:


> Also, whoever runs it sounds like a douchebag.



I think no matter what skill level, the creator is in a lose/lose situation. If they are a elite professional, they just come off as a lame elitist and if they aren't, well then what the hell do they know? Ya know what I mean?


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## mjhoward (Aug 14, 2011)

They certainly don't seem to mind using others photographs without permission!


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## Gaerek (Aug 14, 2011)

mjhoward said:


> They certainly don't seem to mind using others photographs without permission!



I can almost [FONT=&amp]guarantee[/FONT] the use of those photos constitutes fair use. If not, there's tons of parody/satire websites out there that should be shut down.



			
				twotwoleft said:
			
		

> I was just sharing a story how these pro photographers arent perfect  either. We were shooting an air-to-air, in the photo ship had the  utility door off the back. We didn't have a harness so to move around  the back with the doors off you have to wear an emergency parachute. The  photog complained it was too restrictive and removed it half way  through the flight...Aparently rules didn't apply to him.  Then he kept  wanting the subject aircraft closer, and to "slip in". Because, they "do  it all the time.." I knew the pilot flying the other plane was good but  had very little formation experience. I didn't want him that close to  us. "Nothing a longer lens couldn't handle", I was thinking but didn't  actually TELL him.
> 
> I really don't see how any of that is being self-ritous or hypocritical.  This wasn't my first rodeo and I handled the situation was  professionally as I could.  No were do I go walking around claiming to  be a badass. Putting people down just by the sole purpose of because I  feel they deserve it...



Didn't see your edit, but felt I had to comment. I find it funny that you say I get defensive, but you found it [FONT=&amp]necessary [/FONT] to justify yourself. If that's not defensive, I don't know what is. You say you don't put people down just because you feel they deserve it? Then why did you relate that story? You're bagging on that photographer for the sole purpose of showing what a "tool bag" (your words, by the way) he was. However you try to justify it, you were doing exactly what you are complaining about that website. Hypocrits rarely see the hypocrisy in their own words...

My favorite part is how you witnessed someone breaking Federal safety rules that you knew were being broken. It's a good thing nothing happened, because in the eyes of the Federal regulators, someone who passively allows safety rules to be broken is almost as guilty as the person who is committing them. Nice work putting yourself, that photographer, the pilot, and the people in the other plane in danger.

Anywho, I hope you reply, because that will allow this thread to get bumped, once again, and give even more people a chance to see it. Again, I ask you, take the stick out, realize you're no better than the owners of that website, and gain a sense of humor...seriously.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Aug 14, 2011)

This forum has the best entertainment EVER!


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## mishele (Aug 14, 2011)

^^^^I can't take you seriously w/ those eyes looking at me!!!! You are such a stud.....lol


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## fokker (Aug 14, 2011)

mishele said:


> ^^^^I can't take you seriously w/ those eyes looking at me!!!! You are such a stud.....lol



I can't take YOU seriously because your avatar looks like a vagina  :greenpbl:


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## Bitter Jeweler (Aug 14, 2011)




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## Gaerek (Aug 14, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> This forum has the best entertainment EVER!



I only aim to please.


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## Ryan L (Aug 14, 2011)

fokker said:


> mishele said:
> 
> 
> > ^^^^I can't take you seriously w/ those eyes looking at me!!!! You are such a stud.....lol
> ...



I can see where that comes into play...but thank god I have never ran into a vag like that!!


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## mishele (Aug 15, 2011)

LOL.........I didn't realize that my avatar was that distracting!!  (I'll have to keep this one for awhile)


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## JWellman (Aug 15, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> This forum has the best entertainment EVER!


 


mishele said:


> ^^^^I can't take you seriously w/ those eyes looking at me!!!! You are such a stud.....lol


Awww...thank you for returning to your normal looking self! I was so sick of that other photo! :lmao:



fokker said:


> mishele said:
> 
> 
> > ^^^^I can't take you seriously w/ those eyes looking at me!!!! You are such a stud.....lol
> ...



:lmao: Nothing like a good morning laugh!


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## mishele (Aug 15, 2011)

Here is a larger version.....lol


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## Vtec44 (Aug 15, 2011)

That's a very pretty... umm... flower.


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## TwoTwoLeft (Aug 15, 2011)

bump...

Holy crap you like to argue!




Gaerek said:


> My favorite part is how you witnessed someone breaking Federal safety rules that you knew were being broken. It's a good thing nothing happened, because in the eyes of the Federal regulators, someone who passively allows safety rules to be broken is almost as guilty as the person who is committing them. Nice work putting yourself, that photographer, the pilot, and the people in the other plane in danger.



Nice Spin, you would fit right in with most of the politicians down here in California. The situation was handled & he complied. The only reason why I reply to this is not to argue but to correct the fictitious situation that you created. Call me a hypocrite or whatever, it's not worth it to me to argue with you about that. But do not pass judgment and make assumptions on how I do my job. Safety is always #1 for everyone involved. 

Remove the stick?? I think you need to call a lumber jack to remove the sequoia out of yours... Originally I was just making a comment related the LINK you posted nothing personal against you. Maybe you should take some of your own advise about getting some thick skin. 



Glad to be part in providing cheap entertainment to everyone!:lmao: Gaerek, feel free to PM me of you want to discuss this farther. 

Now back to flowers that look like vaginas!


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## Gaerek (Aug 15, 2011)

I haven't taken anything personally, and you said you watched as safety violations occur, and did nothing. I've worked 8 years in aviation prior to my current job, and have seen multiple thousand dollar fines applied to individuals for less than what you said you watched happen. As far as what you yourself wrote, there was no spin. Anyway, neither here nor there.

You're right, I do like to argue. Anyone who has known me more than a couple weeks on this board knows that. Guess what kettle, you're black too.  You've responded to me each and everytime. My point with you is that you complained about a website that bagged on so called professional photographers, in the same post, bagged on a professional photographer, that you called a "tool bag". When I called you out on it, you called me defensive, while at the same time, trying to justify yourself (defensive much?). You argued yourself into a corner, and rather than comment on the original argument, you've decided to only comment on the only argument you knew you could win, simply because you had all the information, and I did not. Wat to go! Anyway, I know your type. The type that thinks they're better than others (you know, calling people out for "bagging" on others, while doing the same exact thing), thinks that they're not being argumentative (while at the same time, being argumentative), and has a stick so far up their ass, they look like a unicorn.

I'm bored. Time to find a new thread.


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## ManhattanShutterBug (Aug 15, 2011)

I think its pretty funny personally. I am just wondering why people think its ok for this website (yournotaphotographer) to post peoples photos with out permission when in a previous thread a guy was asking what lens (or somehting similar) was used to take a photo and he linked to the picture but didnt put the photographers name or something like that and some people started about copyright and a bunch of crap like that. How is this any different? because they suck? I dont reallycare about either I am just wondering how some of you think one is ok and not the other?


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## Bitter Jeweler (Aug 15, 2011)

ManhattanShutterBug said:


> I think its pretty funny personally. I am just wondering why people think its ok for this website (yournotaphotographer) to post peoples photos with out permission when in a previous thread a guy was asking what lens (or somehting similar) was used to take a photo and he linked to the picture but didnt put the photographers name or something like that and some people started about copyright and a bunch of crap like that. How is this any different? because they suck? I dont reallycare about either I am just wondering how some of you think one is ok and not the other?



As was stated in that thread _repeatedly_, *it is THIS forums rules *that don't allow you to post other peoples work. TPF's rules don't apply elsewhere.


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## e.rose (Aug 15, 2011)

Gaerek said:


> e.rose said:
> 
> 
> > Love this blog.  It's hilarious.
> ...



DON'T DO THAT TO ME!  I got excited for a second until I read the next line.  And then I was disappointed.


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## Gaerek (Aug 15, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> ManhattanShutterBug said:
> 
> 
> > I think its pretty funny personally. I am just wondering why people think its ok for this website (yournotaphotographer) to post peoples photos with out permission when in a previous thread a guy was asking what lens (or somehting similar) was used to take a photo and he linked to the picture but didnt put the photographers name or something like that and some people started about copyright and a bunch of crap like that. How is this any different? because they suck? I dont reallycare about either I am just wondering how some of you think one is ok and not the other?
> ...



Let's not forget that the site in question (as I explained earlier in this thread) is almost assuredly covered under fair use. While on TPF you must follow the owners rules. If you have your own website, you are less restricted, but still need to follow certain laws. The website is using them for parody/satire, which IS covered under fair use. Education is another usage that's covered under fair use. As Bitter said, don't apply TPF's rules to any site outside of TPF.


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## GooniesNeverSayDie11 (Aug 15, 2011)

I don't have time to read through every post on here so far, but yes this link comes up from time to time and never really becomes cool no matter how many times I see it. As a photographer, do I find some of the posts a little funny? Sure. However, I think it is very mean spirited and does nothing but make the people who run it look like a bunch of arrogant douche bags. Most of the posts don't even have a context. They may be aspiring photographers NOT trying to come off as a professional and yet they face ridicule on this site? You shouldn't perpetuate this bullsh*t. It makes you look just as arrogant. If you have to make fun of others in order to feel like your work is adequate enough than I would say that's a much bigger detriment to your photography business than any amateur watering down the market could ever be. The fact of the matter is, that noone on here has perfect photographs and I mean NOONE. sure you may have a few gems, but you also have some that can be picked apart. Stop kidding yourselves.


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## Gaerek (Aug 15, 2011)

GooniesNeverSayDie11 said:


> I don't have time to read through every post on here so far, but yes this link comes up from time to time and never really becomes cool no matter how many times I see it. As a photographer, do I find some of the posts a little funny? Sure. However, I think it is very mean spirited and does nothing but make the people who run it look like a bunch of arrogant douche bags. Most of the posts don't even have a context. They may be aspiring photographers NOT trying to come off as a professional and yet they face ridicule on this site? You shouldn't perpetuate this bullsh*t. It makes you look just as arrogant. If you have to make fun of others in order to feel like your work is adequate enough than I would say that's a much bigger detriment to your photography business than any amateur watering down the market could ever be. The fact of the matter is, that noone on here has perfect photographs and I mean NOONE. sure you may have a few gems, but you also have some that can be picked apart. Stop kidding yourselves.



Would you like to tell the group how you really feel?

I don't need any affirmation that my work is adequate. Arrogant? Well, most photographers I know are a bit arrogant. It sorta comes with the business. I mean, you almost need a level of self confidence that borders on arrogance.

I'm sorry for posting the link. I was amused by it. Figured others would be also. Guess I was wrong. I'll edit my original post, and any references to the site. Meant no harm, just wanted to have a little fun, and maybe help some of the newer folks learn what not to do.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Aug 15, 2011)

No! Don't edit your post!

Funny Pictures at WalMart



Regretsy | Where DIY Meets WTF


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## Gaerek (Aug 15, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> No! Don't edit your post!
> 
> Funny Pictures at WalMart
> 
> ...



Copper Squat | Regretsy

This one is yours, right? :lmao:


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## levinest (Aug 15, 2011)

I think the "youarenotaphotographer" site is no more or less than sites like failblog.org and youidiot.com and the like.  In this case it's just someone posting humorous and rather arrogant, if unintelligent, roasts of photos from people supposedly claiming to be a bit more than they really are.  Perhaps they aren't claiming to be more than they are and just put up stuff they wanted others to see.  Who knows?  That being said, there are tons of web sites roasting pretty much anything and everything we say and do.  To take it more seriously than that is not understanding the complete silliness and unadulterated hubris of the site to start with.  To mock is cruel, but it's just the nature of this type of site.  If not this one then somewhere else something exists just like it.  It's unfortunately human nature to watch disasters, car wrecks, houses burning down, etc.  If the site bothers you don't visit it any further.  You'd be right to be upset with it but to dwell on it just doesn't seem to be worth the time.


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## dakkon76 (Aug 15, 2011)

Ok, seriously though... this entire rant was worth reading just to end up visiting the site and see the baby propped up against the deer.

Oops, I think I just negated the last 3 pages of debate.


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## GooniesNeverSayDie11 (Aug 15, 2011)

Gaerek said:


> GooniesNeverSayDie11 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't have time to read through every post on here so far, but yes this link comes up from time to time and never really becomes cool no matter how many times I see it. As a photographer, do I find some of the posts a little funny? Sure. However, I think it is very mean spirited and does nothing but make the people who run it look like a bunch of arrogant douche bags. Most of the posts don't even have a context. They may be aspiring photographers NOT trying to come off as a professional and yet they face ridicule on this site? You shouldn't perpetuate this bullsh*t. It makes you look just as arrogant. If you have to make fun of others in order to feel like your work is adequate enough than I would say that's a much bigger detriment to your photography business than any amateur watering down the market could ever be. The fact of the matter is, that noone on here has perfect photographs and I mean NOONE. sure you may have a few gems, but you also have some that can be picked apart. Stop kidding yourselves.
> ...



Although that did come off as being mainly directed specifically at you, my meaning of "You shouldn't perpetuate...." was more of a general statement to everyone as well as the other uses of "you". Same with the comment about putting others down to feel better. I don't want to be excessively harsh to you specifically. Like I said, many others have posted that site. Yes its funny at times, but again, sometimes you have to take the highroad. To me, it becomes more of a negetive, when its placed on a beginners forum, which in a way is basically mocking everyone on this forum. I mean, why not just repost some of the pics that have been posted on here ( probably including some of my own ) and make fun of them? Sure some people that find their pics on that site may deserve and eye opening wake-up call, its still very discouraging to people,not just in regards to selling their services, but also simply being able to take any sort of pride in what the more advanced photographers are deeming "laughable". So to be perfectly clear, I do not have some personal axe to grind with you, although at the time my annoyance with it may have come off that way.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Aug 15, 2011)

It's a learning tool for the beginner Facebook photography businesses.


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## Gaerek (Aug 15, 2011)

GooniesNeverSayDie11 said:


> Gaerek said:
> 
> 
> > GooniesNeverSayDie11 said:
> ...




I understand where you're coming from. My point of view was, as  Bitter said, a learning tool for those who might want to (or could  possibly be) sell photos. There are lots of examples of what not to do.  The site makes a point not to put names on there. Are they mocking? Sure  are. But as a list of "Things to stay away from" it's a pretty powerful  message.


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## GooniesNeverSayDie11 (Aug 15, 2011)

Gaerek said:


> GooniesNeverSayDie11 said:
> 
> 
> > Gaerek said:
> ...


 Yeah, but they do it in a mean spirited way with the comments. They get laughs at other peoples expenses. It would be different if they simply posted the photos and explained what is wrong. Yes, that is a learning experience. However, as it stands now its just degrading to beginner photographers. 

In response to Bitter's comment:  Degrading people is not any sort of learning tool, thats just what a d*ck says as an excuse for simply being a d*ck. The site does not give any sort of constructive criticism of why a photo does or doesn't work, it simply is there to tear people down for the sake of getting a good laugh. If I am laughing at a photo on there, I already know whats messed up with it, that is why I am laughing. A beginner, who would make the same exact type of pictures, is not in on the joke. Therefore, they learn nothing.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Aug 15, 2011)

Actually, through some of the comments, there is helpful advice.


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## SabrinaO (Aug 15, 2011)

So... where can we see your work OP??


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## Bitter Jeweler (Aug 15, 2011)

The seed is planted.


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## Gaerek (Aug 15, 2011)

SabrinaO said:


> So... where can we see your work OP??



My work's out there, if you care to look. You see, I actually know what I'm doing and don't need affirmation or help from others on a beginning photo forum. I also have the good sense that many (including yourself) lack, not to try to sell said photographs because I actually know they're not good enough. But hey, keep selling those photo CDs, using gold reflectors in the shade, and shooting entire sets, without realizing your focus is off. It'll pay off eventually! Seed may be planted, but it won't take root.

I hope your photos never end up on that site!


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## Bitter Jeweler (Aug 15, 2011)

Sorry Gaerek, I think it is taking root. Can we get a drama roll please?


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## Gaerek (Aug 15, 2011)

No, but I can give a preemptive violin for certain individuals...
:violin:


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## SabrinaO (Aug 15, 2011)

Gaerek said:


> SabrinaO said:
> 
> 
> > So... where can we see your work OP??
> ...



I did look because you seem so invested on what I do, how I shoot, how I edit and how I run my business so I thought.. "hey.. let me see what this person is all about!" So I searched your posts and found some M.I.A C&C pics, and a few shots of a boat and a marina which yes... aren't good at all. I also saw several of your posts along with this one judging photographers and i'm like "who are you to judge?"
Oh and whats wrong with shooting with a gold reflector in the shade? Also, my focus has never been off... you should know that since you stalk all my threads.  
I know I have a ways to go... but I know that NONE of my photos will not end up on that site! 
Maybe instead of bashing other photographers... maybe you should stop hiding or deleting your photos so we can have a go at your work...


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## Bitter Jeweler (Aug 15, 2011)

See!


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## Gaerek (Aug 15, 2011)

SabrinaO said:
			
		

> I did look because you seem so invested on what I do, how I shoot, how I edit and how I run my business so I thought.. "hey.. let me see what this person is all about!" So I searched your posts and found some M.I.A C&C pics, and a few shots of a boat and a marina which yes... aren't good at all. I also saw several of your posts along with this one judging photographers and i'm like "who are you to judge?"
> Oh and whats wrong with shooting with a gold reflector in the shade? Also, my focus has never been off... you should know that since you stalk all my threads.
> I know I have a ways to go... but I know that NONE of my photos will not end up on that site!
> Maybe instead of bashing other photographers... maybe you should stop hiding or deleting your photos so we can have a go at your work...



*sigh* 

Some people never learn. Thanks for the laughs Tin...err, I mean Sabrina.

And Bitter, sorry for ever doubting you. Won't happen again sir!


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## SabrinaO (Aug 15, 2011)

Gaerek said:


> SabrinaO said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Learn what?? What are you talking about???


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## mjhoward (Aug 15, 2011)

SabrinaO said:


>



*Cough* Habitual Argument Starter *Cough*


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## g-fi (Aug 15, 2011)

Ha! Don't you know not to feed them after dark.. or get them wet... or something?


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## Gaerek (Aug 15, 2011)

SabrinaO said:


> Gaerek said:
> 
> 
> > SabrinaO said:
> ...



Whoosh!


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## JWellman (Aug 15, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> See!


 It's midnight Bitter...what else we got to do but read the drama? :mrgreen:

Curl up and have some popcorn with me. I'll share...

Here's yours


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## Bitter Jeweler (Aug 15, 2011)

Thanks Jess!


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## SabrinaO (Aug 15, 2011)

Gaerek said:


> SabrinaO said:
> 
> 
> > Gaerek said:
> ...



LOL.. You have no legit response to what I said because the truth sucks so its better to not talk about it? LOL... Just take a look in the mirror dude before you start telling someone how to shoot/edit/run a biz/etc/etc/ect...


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## Gaerek (Aug 15, 2011)

JWellman said:


> Bitter Jeweler said:
> 
> 
> > See!
> ...



Sorry guys, unless Sabrina attempts to make sense again in the next few minutes, I'm going to have to call it a night. Have to be at work in about 6 hours!


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## SabrinaO (Aug 15, 2011)

mjhoward said:


> SabrinaO said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...



I don't come here to start drama. :greenpbl:
Im about to go to bed so....


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## ManhattanShutterBug (Aug 15, 2011)

SabrinaO said:


> Gaerek said:
> 
> 
> > SabrinaO said:
> ...



Starting drama every where you go! how old are you anyways? seriously....... do you not have better things to do then start sh!t in and online forum?:er:


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## SabrinaO (Aug 15, 2011)

Gaerek said:


> JWellman said:
> 
> 
> > Bitter Jeweler said:
> ...



LMAO...run along now!


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## JWellman (Aug 15, 2011)

Gaerek said:


> JWellman said:
> 
> 
> > Bitter Jeweler said:
> ...


Well shoot, I wonder what's on HBO?


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## Bitter Jeweler (Aug 15, 2011)

SabrinaO said:


> LOL.. You have no legit response to what I said because the truth sucks so its better to not talk about it? LOL... Just take a look in the mirror dude before you start telling someone how to shoot/edit/run a biz/etc/etc/ect...


Is this the same mirror you should look into?


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## SabrinaO (Aug 15, 2011)

ManhattanShutterBug said:


> SabrinaO said:
> 
> 
> > Gaerek said:
> ...



Nope... just with the people that don't leave me alone. 
So what are _you_ doing???


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## Ballistics (Aug 15, 2011)

GooniesNeverSayDie11 said:


> In response to Bitter's comment:  *Degrading people is not any sort of learning tool*, thats just what a d*ck says as an excuse for simply being a d*ck.



The military sincerely disagrees.


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## Gaerek (Aug 15, 2011)

SabrinaO said:


> Gaerek said:
> 
> 
> > SabrinaO said:
> ...



Oh, there it is.

Where's your business plan? Don't tell me, one page word document:

1. DSLR
2. Strobes and light modifiers that that one website said I needed
3. Background (aka. living room wall)
4. Cheesy poses
5. Terrible Flash based website
6. Mention all the classes you've taken on your website without telling them how much experience you have
7. Use clients as guinea pigs to learn photography without them knowing...and charging them for it!
8. ???????
9. Profit

The fact you're in business tells me I know more about business than you. Anyway...I'm going to bed. It's been fun. Can't wait to see what you have for me in the morning!


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## SabrinaO (Aug 15, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> SabrinaO said:
> 
> 
> > LOL.. You have no legit response to what I said because the truth sucks so its better to not talk about it? LOL... Just take a look in the mirror dude before you start telling someone how to shoot/edit/run a biz/etc/etc/ect...
> ...



LOL... ive admitted it time and time again of all my flaws!


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## Bitter Jeweler (Aug 15, 2011)

:shock:


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## ManhattanShutterBug (Aug 15, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> ManhattanShutterBug said:
> 
> 
> > I think its pretty funny personally. I am just wondering why people think its ok for this website (yournotaphotographer) to post peoples photos with out permission when in a previous thread a guy was asking what lens (or somehting similar) was used to take a photo and he linked to the picture but didnt put the photographers name or something like that and some people started about copyright and a bunch of crap like that. How is this any different? because they suck? I dont reallycare about either I am just wondering how some of you think one is ok and not the other?
> ...



sorry lol I should probably read all the posts before commenting I am just too lazy sometimes to filter through the bull sh!t posts (even if i post some myself). I didnt realize it was about the rules that I can understand



regardless the website the OP posted may be harsh but its showing what not to do, besides if the people whos photos get posted on there are charging money for their work thats sad. and for the p[eople who get in a hissy about it dont like it well simply dont go to the website problem solved!!


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## Ballistics (Aug 15, 2011)

Gaerek said:


> SabrinaO said:
> 
> 
> > Gaerek said:
> ...



Yikes... is this true Sabrina?


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## g-fi (Aug 15, 2011)

So. Hard. To. Resist. Y'all, Hoarders is on right now. I really can't decide which trainwreck is more delicious right now. I don't even know why people bother to feed the gaping attention-sucking maw, but please keep doing it. It's so hilariously wrong.


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## SabrinaO (Aug 15, 2011)

Gaerek said:


> SabrinaO said:
> 
> 
> > Gaerek said:
> ...



Don't you already know?? Its in my siggy for gods sakes! A DSLR camera and a set of studio lights makes me an instant kickass photographer!


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## SabrinaO (Aug 15, 2011)

Ballistics said:


> Gaerek said:
> 
> 
> > SabrinaO said:
> ...




lol.. is what true?


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## ManhattanShutterBug (Aug 15, 2011)

JWellman said:


> Gaerek said:
> 
> 
> > JWellman said:
> ...




true blood lol


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## jgooz (Aug 15, 2011)

lol i just skipped to the end, my anti-depressants havent kicked in yet :/ but i figured i'd post anyway seein as i actually did get thru page 6. how bout them cardinals!


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## g-fi (Aug 15, 2011)

Gaerek said:


> The fact you're in business tells me I know more about business than you. Anyway...I'm going to bed. It's been fun. Can't wait to see what you have for me in the morning!



You totes forgot about giving away your CDs for free with a measly print credit so that your customers can go print their own crappy pics from Wal-Mart, and putting your work on sale since the only clients you can attract are the cheap-o's who want it all for free! Cuz that's totes the best biz model out there, RIGHT?! We could all use some lessons.


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## g-fi (Aug 15, 2011)

ManhattanShutterBug said:


> JWellman said:
> 
> 
> > Gaerek said:
> ...



God I miss HBO.


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## Gaerek (Aug 15, 2011)

Page 6...see if you guys can make it to 8 before I wake up. Toodles!


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## g-fi (Aug 15, 2011)

I'm just hoping this whole thread gets kicked over to the Off Topic forum again so it can die a peaceful death. I prefer it when the drama filled threads only go to 2 or 3 pages. All this clicking is hard.


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## ManhattanShutterBug (Aug 15, 2011)

SabrinaO said:


> ManhattanShutterBug said:
> 
> 
> > SabrinaO said:
> ...




Watching True Blood on HBO duh!


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## SabrinaO (Aug 15, 2011)

g-fi said:


> Gaerek said:
> 
> 
> > The fact you're in business tells me I know more about business than you. Anyway...I'm going to bed. It's been fun. Can't wait to see what you have for me in the morning!
> ...



Lets see how much you charge?? 

My rates are competitive with other photographers around here. I also only allow a set amount of pics on CD... and about 98% of the time ALL my clients order their prints through me so....


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## ManhattanShutterBug (Aug 15, 2011)

SabrinaO said:


> g-fi said:
> 
> 
> > Gaerek said:
> ...



if your not here to start drama who cares? Why does it matter what others are charging? Why do you need so much validation and to compare everything? Its not like anything anyone says you will actually listen to. Your post make me want to bash my face into my key board. Yes I comment and yes I think I am being as stupid and immature as you however your attitude is AWFUL! My twin daughters are 16 and combined dont have half your bad attitude!! but thats it I am seriously done feeding the gremlin

I am just going to go back to my Wine and vampires. Night all!


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## SabrinaO (Aug 15, 2011)

ManhattanShutterBug said:


> SabrinaO said:
> 
> 
> > g-fi said:
> ...



I honestly don't have a bad attitude! g-fi was just bashing because she assumed I give my photography away for cheap which isn't the case so I explained it to her what I do. I could care less what people on here are doing because i'm not looking for any validation from them. I just wanted to know how much she charges since she is so opinionated on how much she assumes I charge... 
But oh well... I'm done with this thread and off to the other ones...


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## g-fi (Aug 16, 2011)

Opinionated about how much you charge? YOUR FACEBOOK PAGE IS IN YOUR SIGNATURE. Do. Not. Even. A $5 print credit? Uh uh. Go sit down and be quiet now and let the grown-ups talk. You need to worry about getting your CD's out on time because your clients want to know where they are. If you don't like someone criticizing your business practices, don't go around talking about how much you know and how fine you are. I can break down my profit per hour, my print profits, conversions to albums, percent of sale online vs.  in person proofing, and the growth of my business as a result of word of mouth advertising BY CHARTS. Spreadsheets. 5 and 10 year business plan. You wanna know about my business plan? Because I'VE GOT ONE. You don't need to worry about me. I DIDN'T just launch my business less than a year ago without perfecting my skills to where they need to be to impress clients to pay the session fee for portraiture that is DOUBLE your "normal full session" prices. I have sat here and given you business advice FOR FREE that I spent years figuring out on my own. 

You really don't need to worry about me. I got mine. Go handle yours.


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## mjhoward (Aug 16, 2011)

SabrinaO said:


> But oh well... I'm done with this thread and off to the other ones...



History would indicate that you will, in fact, be back to argue more.


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## ManhattanShutterBug (Aug 16, 2011)

g-fi said:


> Opinionated about how much you charge? YOUR FACEBOOK PAGE IS IN YOUR SIGNATURE. Do. Not. Even. A $5 print credit? Uh uh. Go sit down and be quiet now and let the grown-ups talk. You need to worry about getting your CD's out on time because your clients want to know where they are. If you don't like someone criticizing your business practices, don't go around talking about how much you know and how fine you are. I can break down my profit per hour, my print profits, conversions to albums, percent of sale online vs.  in person proofing, and the growth of my business as a result of word of mouth advertising BY CHARTS. Spreadsheets. 5 and 10 year business plan. You wanna know about my business plan? Because I'VE GOT ONE. You don't need to worry about me. I DIDN'T just launch my business less than a year ago without perfecting my skills to where they need to be to impress clients to pay the session fee for portraiture that is DOUBLE your "normal full session" prices. I have sat here and given you business advice FOR FREE that I spent years figuring out on my own.
> 
> You really don't need to worry about me. I got mine. Go handle yours.




I know I said I was done posting in this thread but gi-fi ...well said! wells Said!:hail:


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## Vtec44 (Aug 16, 2011)

daym!! lol


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## fokker (Aug 16, 2011)

Business is boring, let's talk more about vaginas!


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## wlbphoto (Aug 16, 2011)

well i wish i had seen this link or what ever it was.


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## fokker (Aug 16, 2011)

SabrinaO said:


> about 98% of the time ALL my clients order their prints through me so....



98% of the time, it works EVERY time :thumbup:


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## fokker (Aug 16, 2011)

wlbphoto said:


> well i wish i had seen this link or what ever it was.



You Are Not a Photographer


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## wlbphoto (Aug 16, 2011)

fokker said:


> wlbphoto said:
> 
> 
> > well i wish i had seen this link or what ever it was.
> ...



thanks, lets see what all the fos is all about seeing that it has over 1000 views


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## SabrinaO (Aug 16, 2011)

g-fi said:


> Opinionated about how much you charge? YOUR FACEBOOK PAGE IS IN YOUR SIGNATURE. Do. Not. Even. A $5 print credit? Uh uh. Go sit down and be quiet now and let the grown-ups talk. You need to worry about getting your CD's out on time because your clients want to know where they are. If you don't like someone criticizing your business practices, don't go around talking about how much you know and how fine you are. I can break down my profit per hour, my print profits, conversions to albums, percent of sale online vs.  in person proofing, and the growth of my business as a result of word of mouth advertising BY CHARTS. Spreadsheets. 5 and 10 year business plan. You wanna know about my business plan? Because I'VE GOT ONE. You don't need to worry about me. I DIDN'T just launch my business less than a year ago without perfecting my skills to where they need to be to impress clients to pay the session fee for portraiture that is DOUBLE your "normal full session" prices. I have sat here and given you business advice FOR FREE that I spent years figuring out on my own. You really don't need to worry about me. I got mine. Go handle yours.


Haha... Believe me I'm learning as I go. Did I do this ass backwards? I sure did... But I know I'm not the only photographer who realized that being a photographer is the easy part.. and running a biz is what is the most challenging. I can almost bet that most on here went through the same reality check. Anyways, just a tip... maybe you should stop looking at all your charts/spreadsheets and work on your networking and using social media to your advantage. Your "website" is pitiful because it was last updated in may. If you know so much about running a business you would of had some sort of active network going on. You would know how beneficial that is.
 Also... You clicked my FB link in my siggy?... see where that takes you...


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## wlbphoto (Aug 16, 2011)

wow that a long ass blog or what ever it was.. idk what to say..


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## g-fi (Aug 16, 2011)

It's so sweet that you're so concerned about the last time I updated my blog. Awww, bless your heart. It's OK, my clients aren't worried about how often I update my blog, and I don't have to troll Facebook to drum up $50 photo sessions.  But it's cool, you totes don't need my business advice! I'm really really touched that you wanted to offer me business advice. I'll put that right next to my quarterly income tax payment!


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## SabrinaO (Aug 16, 2011)

g-fi said:


> It's so sweet that you're so concerned about the last time I updated my blog. Awww, bless your heart. It's OK, my clients aren't worried about how often I update my blog, and I don't have to troll Facebook to drum up $50 photo sessions.  But it's cool, you totes don't need my business advice! I'm really really touched that you wanted to offer me business advice. I'll put that right next to my quarterly income tax payment!


You've had 8 blog posts for 2010 and around 5 so far this year. That tells me this is the number of clients so far this year? Maybe you just gave up and now you are working at a department store portrait studio which is why your... umm *their* business plan is so thorough? Is that why you are selling all your lenses? Oh and stupid me for actually using marketing strategies and giving promotional deals to my fans. Shoot... maybe I shouldnt give a damn like you and just neglect my site and my facebook page. That strategy will sure roll in the clients...


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## brandibell (Aug 16, 2011)

SabrinaO said:
			
		

> You've had 8 blog posts for 2010 and around 5 so far this year. That tells me this is the number of clients so far this year? Maybe you just gave up and now you are working at a department store portrait studio which is why your... umm *their* business plan is so thorough? Is that why you are selling all your lenses? Oh and stupid me for actually using marketing strategies and giving promotional deals to my fans. Shoot... maybe I shouldnt give a damn like you and just neglect my site and my facebook page. That strategy will sure roll in the clients...



Some photographers dont use social media & networking for business. Social media is a great tool but it's not essential photographers were doing fine before social media came around and many will do fine with out it. Everyone has different marketing and advertising strategies based on what works best for them, so just because someone doesn't update their website/blog/twitter/Facebook doesn't mean they aren't bringing in customers and just because someone consistently updates the said above doesn't mean they are bringing in paying clients. Also keep in mind not every client will be willing to sign a model release and allow the photog to use the images

Just saying......


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## g-fi (Aug 16, 2011)

You're SO CUTE! It's like you just can't help yourself. I know, it's hard to understand any sort of business model that doesn't involve trying to sell yourself as a $50/session photographer on Facebook or Craigslist, but it's totes cute the way you are so concerned about my business! It's hard to imagine not having to run after your clients and chase them down and work to get them to book with you, isn't it? 

Oh yes, and YOU TOTALLY CAUGHT ME! Clearly I work in Wal-Mart or JcPenney's since I'm not spamming the internet with how I've dropped my prices for the latest mini session! It all TOTES makes sense now! Someone give that girl a cherry Tootsie Roll pop, because she is just so smart, you might as well just shut the internet down! If anyone wants a discount on the latest fall themed vinyl backdrop specials at Wal-Mart, you know where to find me! I will HOOK YOU UP!

It's just so awesome that you can't even make this stuff up. I would stay up all night long just to read yet another ridiculous response or speculation, it's just that good. The train has wrecked, the hazardous material from the tanks cars is gushing over the childrens playground, and the gawkers have to take two big steps back in order to continue to gawk safely. LOVE IT.


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## Kbarredo (Aug 16, 2011)

Gaerek said:


> I'm not a pro


 exactly!
What is this a photographers version of the dirty website. I know that I am guilty of photographer hating myself but come on this is just bs. Who devotes a whole site to insult peoples work. I did check it out and I thought they were bad but no need to make a whole site about it.


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## Neil S. (Aug 16, 2011)

So in summary....

The photos in the link are very bad, in some cases so bad that I was cringing.

Was it cruel? Sure, why not lol.

Does it matter? Why would it?

Bad photos are bad.....the end.

We can all learn alot about what NOT TO DO from this. I would never even think about keeping 90% of those, so I guess I am doing at least something right.


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## Kbarredo (Aug 16, 2011)

JWellman said:


> Gaerek said:
> 
> 
> > JWellman said:
> ...


 You ever watched game of thrones? Its freaking awesome I watched a full season in 1 sitting.


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## Gaerek (Aug 16, 2011)

Awesome guys! I knew you didn't need my help to make it to page 8.

@SabrinaO: Everytime you post, you prove even more that you have no clue what you're doing. You want to see a photo by me? Ok, post your actual business plan, and I'll post a photo for you all to tear apart. If you actually did know what you're doing, this should be easy. However, if my suspicion is correct, you don't have one, so this won't be a problem.

@g-fi: Keep up the good work. You have shown you actually know what you're doing. You probably have 4 times the client volume as the facebook photographer here, and can charge twice as much.

@Kbarredo: Glad to see you're still around. Now go back to lifting your weights, or punching people for money, or whatever it is you do. You missed the bus on this thread!


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## Kbarredo (Aug 16, 2011)

Gaerek said:


> Awesome guys! I knew you didn't need my help to make it to page 8.
> 
> @SabrinaO: Everytime you post, you prove even more that you have no clue what you're doing. You want to see a photo by me? Ok, post your actual business plan, and I'll post a photo for you all to tear apart. If you actually did know what you're doing, this should be easy. However, if my suspicion is correct, you don't have one, so this won't be a problem.
> 
> ...


glad to see you're still kissing ass.


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## Gaerek (Aug 16, 2011)

Kbarredo said:
			
		

> glad to see you're still kissing ass.



You're not nearly as entertaining as Sabrina.


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## SabrinaO (Aug 16, 2011)

g-fi said:


> You're SO CUTE! It's like you just can't help yourself. I know, it's hard to understand any sort of business model that doesn't involve trying to sell yourself as a $50/session photographer on Facebook or Craigslist, but it's totes cute the way you are so concerned about my business! It's hard to imagine not having to run after your clients and chase them down and work to get them to book with you, isn't it?
> 
> Oh yes, and YOU TOTALLY CAUGHT ME! Clearly I work in Wal-Mart or JcPenney's since I'm not spamming the internet with how I've dropped my prices for the latest mini session! It all TOTES makes sense now! Someone give that girl a cherry Tootsie Roll pop, because she is just so smart, you might as well just shut the internet down! If anyone wants a discount on the latest fall themed vinyl backdrop specials at Wal-Mart, you know where to find me! I will HOOK YOU UP!
> 
> It's just so awesome that you can't even make this stuff up. I would stay up all night long just to read yet another ridiculous response or speculation, it's just that good. The train has wrecked, the hazardous material from the tanks cars is gushing over the childrens playground, and the gawkers have to take two big steps back in order to continue to gawk safely. LOVE IT.



At least you're admitting it now. Its just makes sense


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## Gaerek (Aug 16, 2011)

SabrinaO said:
			
		

> At least you're admitting it now. Its just makes sense



Sarcasm > you


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## SabrinaO (Aug 16, 2011)

brandibell said:


> SabrinaO said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I know its not essential... and of course I know having a Facebook page doesn't make you a photographer.  I just find it strange that her "website" is basically abandoned/neglected. I mean we are in the internet era and everyone looks to the internet to find a photographer, or see their work. Her website is blog based and every active photographer that I know updates their blog, and posts sneak peaks for at least one of their clients at least once a week. Her last update was in May so that seems strange. 
I'm not even saying that having a blog makes you a photographer either... but if she is going to get on me for my lack of business skills (which I admit!) she should at LEAST know that having an active blog would benefit her. I mean where else is she displaying her work for potential clients?


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## SabrinaO (Aug 16, 2011)

Gaerek said:


> Awesome guys! I knew you didn't need my help to make it to page 8.
> 
> @SabrinaO: Everytime you post, you prove even more that you have no clue what you're doing. You want to see a photo by me? Ok, post your actual business plan, and I'll post a photo for you all to tear apart. If you actually did know what you're doing, this should be easy. However, if my suspicion is correct, you don't have one, so this won't be a problem.
> 
> ...



You are just pathetic! LOL...keep on making excuses in why you hide and not show your "work". Business plan? Did I not say I did things ass backwards? I knew NOTHING on running a business when I started photography, but now I am actually seeking the business help I need and signed up with a local SCORE. 
Anyways, keep judging and bashing the photographers that _actually_ put out their work for C&C's while you continue to be a coward and hide your work because of what you already know... your work is not good.


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## Helen B (Aug 16, 2011)

SabrinaO said:


> I mean we are in the internet era and everyone looks to the internet to find a photographer, or see their work.



No they don't. You have no idea.


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## SabrinaO (Aug 16, 2011)

Helen B said:


> SabrinaO said:
> 
> 
> > I mean we are in the internet era and everyone looks to the internet to find a photographer, or see their work.
> ...



Well then please do tell. How do you market yourself, or pass out fliers/business cards/newspaper ads and don't have a site to refer someone to? What is she doing... carrying around an actual porfolio? 

Ok... im going to hire _you_ to take pics of my son. I don't know really your style and your portfolio is sparce but yes... ill shell out 300+ for a photoshoot from you.


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## Gaerek (Aug 16, 2011)

SabrinaO said:
			
		

> You are just pathetic! LOL...keep on making excuses in why you hide and not show your "work". Business plan? Did I not say I did things ass backwards? I knew NOTHING on running a business when I started photography, but now I am actually seeking the business help I need and signed up with a local SCORE.
> Anyways, keep judging and bashing the photographers that actually put out their work for C&C's while you continue to be a coward and hide your work because of what you already know... your work is not good.



At the very least, tell your clients you have no clue what you're doing. Have a little integrity. Under the 'experience' tab on your website, the honest thing to do woul be to say you only picked up a DSLR 9 months ago. And for Gods sake, quit charging them to help you learn. That's disingenuous, and borderline fraud.

As I've said, you are no one to be judging my work, after seeing what you produce. I need no affirmation. I went through the need help and need affirmation stage, oh, 10 years ago. I'll post photos when I want to, not because some wannabe wants me to prove my ability (something I accomplished, with people who actually know what the hell they're doing, years ago). Keep browsing, you'll see my work eventually and then you can try to rip it apart.


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## PhotoWrangler (Aug 16, 2011)




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## SabrinaO (Aug 16, 2011)

Gaerek said:


> SabrinaO said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I've had experienced photographers on here tell me my work is good. I don't know what you are talking about. I don't need any affirmation from you AT ALL because I saw your photograph of a side of a boat(?) and a random shot of ocean buoys. :meh: That tells me you have no clue what makes a good photo. You even admitted to not showing your work because you know how bad it is. So keep wasting your time judging my work... your input/opinion is irrelevant in my eyes.


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## mjhoward (Aug 16, 2011)

mjhoward said:


> SabrinaO said:
> 
> 
> > But oh well... I'm done with this thread and off to the other ones...
> ...


 


SabrinaO said:


> g-fi said:
> 
> 
> > Opinionated about how much you charge? YOUR FACEBOOK PAGE IS IN YOUR SIGNATURE. Do. Not. Even. A $5 print credit? Uh uh. Go sit down and be quiet now and let the grown-ups talk. You need to worry about getting your CD's out on time because your clients want to know where they are. If you don't like someone criticizing your business practices, don't go around talking about how much you know and how fine you are. I can break down my profit per hour, my print profits, conversions to albums, percent of sale online vs.  in person proofing, and the growth of my business as a result of word of mouth advertising BY CHARTS. Spreadsheets. 5 and 10 year business plan. You wanna know about my business plan? Because I'VE GOT ONE. You don't need to worry about me. I DIDN'T just launch my business less than a year ago without perfecting my skills to where they need to be to impress clients to pay the session fee for portraiture that is DOUBLE your "normal full session" prices. I have sat here and given you business advice FOR FREE that I spent years figuring out on my own. You really don't need to worry about me. I got mine. Go handle yours.
> ...



Just like clockwork... didn't even take that long either


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## JWellman (Aug 16, 2011)

As much as I enjoy the &#8216;internet entertainment&#8217; I think the horse has been beaten to death. And before I&#8217;m totally bashed you should know, I haven&#8217;t read all the heated debates. I honestly don&#8217;t know all the reasons why Sabrina is constantly hounded other than she likes to argue. Sure her website has a few flaws, her photography is still in the learning stage but I wish I could have picked up a camera this year and done as well as she&#8217;s done. I have no doubt that she will have excellent work in the next few years despite the criticism she receives. 

I guess I need to go scold my husband for successfully bidding on million dollar projects, not having a decent website, business cards and spread sheets, not to mention the shame of never creating a business plan. I think he definitely needs to go back to square one. *Insert a rage of sarcasm here*

He is successful because he knows what he&#8217;s doing. It&#8217;s called life lessons and thirty years of experience. His success has not been based on the internet, business plans and spreadsheets but honesty, integrity, dedication, and personality. I think we could all learn a little from his character.

With that said, who really gives a crap what Sabrina does!  Her life, her business...who cares!!!!!!!!!!


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## Bitter Jeweler (Aug 16, 2011)

JWellman said:


> He is successful because he knows what he&#8217;s doing.



:thumbup:


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## Gaerek (Aug 16, 2011)

SabrinaO said:
			
		

> I've had experienced photographers on here tell me my work is good. I don't know what you are talking about. I don't need any affirmation from you AT ALL because I saw your photograph of a side of a boat(?) and a random shot of ocean buoys. :meh: That tells me you have no clue what makes a good photo. You even admitted to not showing your work because you know how bad it is. So keep wasting your time judging my work... your input/opinion is irrelevant in my eyes.



Ah yes, the photos I took walking the docks with my family. Was paying more attention to my 2 year enjoying herself looking at the "fish boats" than my actual shooting. I liked the colors of the 'side of the boat." Interestingly enough, after I took that shot, the owner came out and asked to see the image. I showed him and he asked if he could see it on a computer. I sent him a lower res version (figured I'll be nice since he let me shoot his boat) and he offered me $100 for an 8x10. Instead, I cleaned up the shot (removed the beer can, etc.) and just printed one off for free for him. I didn't feel right taking his money, you see, because I actually have a handle on my own skills and abilities.

The others, well, never said they were great. I actually don't particularly care for the "random shot of ocean buoys" (actually, its a 'cork line' for the net of a purse seiner). I've since reshot it when I had more time to set up the shot, without the family rushing me along and I'm much more pleased with that result. That's called learning from my mistakes. Another skill, um, certain people should learn.

And the last one of the Kestral. I never thought it was particularly good, even when it was shot. It was more of a political statement that anyone in SE Alaska would get. I won't bore you with the intricacies of that one.

Now, can you actually critique my work (as I've done for you in the past)? Or are you going to do what you complain about constantly and give negative comments without any actual reasons for it? Keep in mind, I've never said I was some awesome photographer. I, unlike, um others, actually have a clue.


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## Helen B (Aug 16, 2011)

JWellman said:


> He is successful because he knows what he&#8217;s doing. It&#8217;s called life lessons and thirty years of experience. His success has not been based on the internet, business plans and spreadsheets but honesty, integrity, dedication, and personality. I think we could all learn a little from his character.



Exactly. Despite Sabrina's ignorant statement about those of us who do not have websites or blogs we do somehow manage to get plenty of good work by reputation and word of mouth.

Best,
Helen


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## mishele (Aug 16, 2011)

Seriously.......how in the hell is *SabrinaO *now in a drag out fight in this thread?! lol Drama?!!!


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## Jarmo (Aug 16, 2011)

Top notch entertainment right here


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## mishele (Aug 16, 2011)

Can you guys hold off a little on this fight.......I have to do real work at work til about 1 EST. Thanks in advance!!:greenpbl:


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## Bitter Jeweler (Aug 16, 2011)

Helen B said:


> JWellman said:
> 
> 
> > He is successful because he knows what he&#8217;s doing. It&#8217;s called life lessons and thirty years of experience. His success has not been based on the internet, business plans and spreadsheets but honesty, integrity, dedication, and personality. I think we could all learn a little from his character.
> ...



My website...top notch, eh?

Untitled Document

My growth has been steady and continuos, with zero spent on marketing. Reputation, Quality, Expertise, and being better than 80% of the competition is golden. Word of mouth WORKS!


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## SabrinaO (Aug 16, 2011)

JWellman said:


> As much as I enjoy the internet entertainment I think the horse has been beaten to death. And before Im totally bashed you should know, I havent read all the heated debates. I honestly dont know all the reasons why Sabrina is constantly hounded other than she likes to argue. Sure her website has a few flaws, her photography is still in the learning stage but I wish I could have picked up a camera this year and done as well as shes done. I have no doubt that she will have excellent work in the next few years despite the criticism she receives. I guess I need to go scold my husband for successfully bidding on million dollar projects, not having a decent website, business cards and spread sheets, not to mention the shame of never creating a business plan. I think he definitely needs to go back to square one. *Insert a rage of sarcasm here*He is successful because he knows what hes doing. Its called life lessons and thirty years of experience. His success has not been based on the internet, business plans and spreadsheets but honesty, integrity, dedication, and personality. I think we could all learn a little from his character.With that said, who really gives a crap what Sabrina does!  Her life, her business...who cares!!!!!!!!!!


Thanks! I love your last line. I don't know why gaerk is so concerned on what I do!


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## SabrinaO (Aug 16, 2011)

Gaerek said:


> SabrinaO said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't know why you felt the need to explain yourself. There is no excuse for those photos other than they are uninteresting and forgettable. The fact that you actualy went out to reshoot those tired photos shows your lack of creativity along with your lack of photography skill. So no.. I'm not gonna cc them because I would of just trashed them.


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## Gaerek (Aug 16, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:
			
		

> My website...top notch, eh?
> 
> Untitled Document
> 
> My growth has been steady and continuos, with zero spent on marketing. Reputation, Quality, Expertise, and being better than 80% of the competition is golden. Word of mouth WORKS!



Your work is stunning, Bitter. My wife is wanting a new ring for a re-affirmation of vows ceremony we want to do in a couple years. I might have to contact you for that. The best part about your website? Simple, no flash! Flash is the devil.

@SabrinaO: What's amazing is out of that entire post, all you get out of it is the one single sentence that has a minor semblance of supporting you. You have no comment for the rest because you know how right it is.

You know what? I wish you and your business luck, because that will be the only major factor that will allow you to be successful.


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## MissCream (Aug 16, 2011)

JWellman said:
			
		

> As much as I enjoy the &lsquo;internet entertainment&rsquo; I think the horse has been beaten to death. And before I&rsquo;m totally bashed you should know, I haven&rsquo;t read all the heated debates. I honestly don&rsquo;t know all the reasons why Sabrina is constantly hounded other than she likes to argue. Sure her website has a few flaws, her photography is still in the learning stage but I wish I could have picked up a camera this year and done as well as she&rsquo;s done. I have no doubt that she will have excellent work in the next few years despite the criticism she receives.
> 
> I guess I need to go scold my husband for successfully bidding on million dollar projects, not having a decent website, business cards and spread sheets, not to mention the shame of never creating a business plan. I think he definitely needs to go back to square one. *Insert a rage of sarcasm here*
> 
> ...



Agreed.


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## Gaerek (Aug 16, 2011)

SabrinaO said:
			
		

> I don't know why you felt the need to explain yourself. There is no excuse for those photos other than they are uninteresting and forgettable. The fact that you actualy went out to reshoot those tired photos shows your lack of creativity along with your lack of photography skill. So no.. I'm not gonna cc them because I would of just trashed them.



Just what I'd expect a no talent MWAC to say. I have experience on my side. What do you have? Oh right, Photoshop classes at the local community college!

Sorry folks, I just got bored with this thread so I'm done. Feel free to keep it going. Sabrina's not even trying to be clever anymore.

Oh and I'll take bets on when the thread locks, just PM me. I'm thinking page 11.


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## PhotoWrangler (Aug 16, 2011)




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## JWellman (Aug 16, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> My website...top notch, eh?
> 
> Untitled Document
> 
> My growth has been steady and continuos, with zero spent on marketing. Reputation, Quality, Expertise, and being better than 80% of the competition is golden. Word of mouth WORKS!



I haven't either. People just come to me (non-photography related) and ask for my help. I think a lot of success has to do with the individual and how they present themselves. Reputation is also gained in the type of work that is produced. You might be lucky enough to nab the customer the first time but if they are not returning (or sending potential customers your way) it's time to re-evaluate the situation.


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## g-fi (Aug 16, 2011)

Those who have said it's wrong to argue with Sabrina, you're absolutely right. I have sat back and loved every delicious bite of the trainwreck because it's just too good, but I broke the cardinal rule of not baiting the bottom feeders. I KNOW it's pointless trying to give some people advice, that they don't care if you actually give them good advice, because they're not here for advice. I've never commented on Sabrina's skill as a photographer, because to be honest, she's not a BAD photographer. Her problem is just that she's one of the most obnxious people on here and she cares way more about the drama than using the information here to help herself. It's HILARIOUS (and a little sad) to watch, but it's just another internet trainwreck, it really isn't worth all this effort. So I can admit I was wrong for sinking to her level, I really just hope that those who are starting out in this career or hobby can glean the good information that's been given out here from the chaff. Because there IS good information out here, it's not just this pointless drama fest that feeds people's egos and clogs up these threads.

And my feelings aren't hurt at all if anyone thinks I don't post enough to my blog . I am more than happy to explain to someone who isn't intent on creating drama how local advertising and knowing your market and HOW TO REACH THEM is the most important part of starting a business. To whomever was talking about their husband's business, you are actually AGREEING with me, because the point of being a business owner isn't to do what everyone else is doing, it's to do what works for you and to know your business. And I 100% agree that* character, integrity, and honesty are essential parts of being a successful business owner*. We can disagree about whether a business plan is also an essential part of running a business, but my approach to business isn't something I just up and decided one day, it was a result of years of research and observation and business classes. Sure, you absolutely can go into business with no preparation, with no business plan, with no idea of how to grow your business and who your target clients are, but especially when it comes to photography these days, you are shooting yourself in the foot before you even start. I really have no desire to teach Sabrina anything about business, but I see people on here every day who are trying to make money with their photography and I REALLY REALLY REALLY hope that they pay attention and give themselves a free education about where you need to START to make this into a successful business.

Other than that, it's just good clean fun entertainment. You have to love the people who will find a reason to scream, degrade, argue, paint themselves as a victim, and feed their egos with the Internet, it would truly not be as amusing of a place otherwise. I mean, there are tons of other forums where these discussions are rational, well thought out, civil exercises. What kinda fun is THAT?! I'd much rather watch Sabrina foam at the mouth! It's totes adorbs.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Aug 16, 2011)

SabrinaO said:


> Gaerek said:
> 
> 
> > SabrinaO said:
> ...



And this is the crux of why people don't care for you. You sound like you know it all, yet you continue to come here, to a beginner forum, asking for help, so you can have a successful business. This thread supports my thoughts that you are only really here for the drama. You thrive on it. You are a troll.


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## g-fi (Aug 16, 2011)

Gaerek said:


> Oh and I'll take bets on when the thread locks, just PM me. I'm thinking page 11.



Can I get dibs on page 13? Because it feels like this thing's got some tread on the tires still. Although any drama thread that has a Star Trek double face palm has completed its mission here on Earth.


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## GooniesNeverSayDie11 (Aug 16, 2011)

Hey Gaerek, why are 90% of your photos missing that were once posted, and your website password protected? Scared of ending up on that site?


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## jake337 (Aug 16, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> Helen B said:
> 
> 
> > JWellman said:
> ...




Just to add to this...

Word of mouth advertising can grow exponentially.  


Online, TV, newspaper, etc adds will only account for the people who actually found your link, saw your spot on the tube, or noticed your add in the paper.  Of the people that viewed those advertisements, many will just go to the next.

Theres a difference between someone thinking your advertisement might warrant a purchase and having a family member or possible lifelong friend, someone you trust, give you their personal, honest opinion on where to get the most for your money spent.


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## Gaerek (Aug 16, 2011)

GooniesNeverSayDie11 said:
			
		

> Hey Gaerek, why are 90% of your photos missing that were once posted, and your website password protected? Scared of ending up on that site?



Websites under reconstruction right now. Lots of broken images as a result of things being moved around. PWd it until I can finish working on it, which with the amount of free time I currently have places it squarely into fall 2012 sometime, lol. Unfortunately my hobby takes a back seat to life, and I'd rather spend my free time shooting/editing than fixing my site. I've posted plenty of images here in the past, so, obviously not scared of anything. Besides, that site only goes after businesses, not individual hobbyists.

Nice try though


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## SabrinaO (Aug 16, 2011)

Helen B said:


> JWellman said:
> 
> 
> > He is successful because he knows what hes doing. Its called life lessons and thirty years of experience. His success has not been based on the internet, business plans and spreadsheets but honesty, integrity, dedication, and personality. I think we could all learn a little from his character.
> ...



I am well aware the best advertisement is WOM and id say about a good chuck of my clients are repeat clients and referrals. This is why i have a referral program, so I know how important word of mouth is...


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## SabrinaO (Aug 16, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> SabrinaO said:
> 
> 
> > Gaerek said:
> ...



Really? is this coming from you? Take a look at my other threads I reply in. I don't go around looking for it or starting drama. You on the other hand....


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## SabrinaO (Aug 16, 2011)

Gaerek said:


> GooniesNeverSayDie11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




LIES!


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## Bitter Jeweler (Aug 16, 2011)

SabrinaO said:


> Bitter Jeweler said:
> 
> 
> > SabrinaO said:
> ...



You got the drama going in this thread. What about "Ok, let me explain myself..."?

Keep denying it.


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## SrBiscuit (Aug 16, 2011)

Sabrina, the time you've wasted in this thread would have been better spent proofreading your site...you have a typo on your 'about me' page.


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## Gaerek (Aug 16, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:
			
		

> You got the drama going in this thread. What about "Ok, let me explain myself..."?
> 
> Keep denying it.



That's a good point. This thread was dead before you reared your ugly head, Sabrina. Please, enlighten us in how you're not here for drama.


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## GooniesNeverSayDie11 (Aug 16, 2011)

Gaerek said:


> Nice try though


 I just wanted to make you do a dance :lmao:


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## SabrinaO (Aug 16, 2011)

SrBiscuit said:


> Sabrina, the time you've wasted in this thread would have been better spent proofreading your site...you have a typo on your 'about me' page.



Thanks


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## Tee (Aug 17, 2011)

I've been gone for months but this is the best thread ever to read upon coming back. I find the site the OP linked hilarious. And face palm inducing. 




SrBiscuit said:


> Sabrina, the time you've wasted in this thread would have been better spent proofreading your site...you have a typo on your 'about me' page.



I was going to mention the same thing.


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## Village Idiot (Oct 9, 2014)

*I* am a photographer!


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## Stradawhovious (Oct 13, 2014)

Village Idiot said:


> *I* am a photographer!


 
Holy thread Necromancy Batman!

ON a related note, I made it through all 146 pages of www.youarenotaphotographer.com and only came across 7 of my pictures.

That's good, right?


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## snowbear (Oct 13, 2014)

Village Idiot said:


> *I* am a photographer!





Stradawhovious said:


> Holy thread Necromancy Batman!


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## Bobby Ironsights (Oct 19, 2014)

I think You Are Not a Photographer | Exposing fauxtographers since 2011 is both educational and hilarious.

Thanks for the thread resurrect.


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