# Pocket Wizard



## D40 (Oct 19, 2008)

Right now I am useing the D200 on camera flash to fire an SB-600 but find that this is not as  reliable as I would like. I am planning on getting another SB-600 and some umbrellas. Can anyone explain some about useing something like the pocket wizard? Would I need one on the camera and than it would fire the SB-600's or would I need something attached to the SB-600's as well? I am looking for more range and reliability when useing off camera flashes so...?


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## Tolyk (Oct 19, 2008)

For a two flash setup, you would need 3 pocket wizards. One for on the camera, and one on each flash.

Read up on strobist ( http://www.strobist.blogspot.com/ ) he goes into much greater detail than I.


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## table1349 (Oct 19, 2008)

Tolyk said:


> For a two flash setup, you would need 3 pocket wizards. One for on the camera, and one on each flash.
> 
> Read up on strobist ( http://www.strobist.blogspot.com/ ) he goes into much greater detail than I.



How about two Pocket Wizards and an optical slave for one of the sb-600's?  With PW's you are shooting in manual mode anyway, no need to worry about preflash.  Say something like this.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/62712-REG/Wein_W940030_HS_Hot_Shoe_Slave.html


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## D40 (Oct 19, 2008)

Ok, so I would need one PW for each flash, that answeres that. I just noticed that with the on camer trigger, the distance and direction of the flash to the camera affect how well it works. There is not kit that has a main transmitter on the camera with recievers that connect to the flashes is there? The PW are $200 or so each which gets sorta $$$ Thanks I will look on that web site later tonight!


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## Alleh Lindquist (Oct 19, 2008)

You will also need a PC socket adaptor for your SB-600's. Pocket wizards are the best though.


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## Village Idiot (Oct 20, 2008)

gryphonslair99 said:


> How about two Pocket Wizards and an optical slave for one of the sb-600's? With PW's you are shooting in manual mode anyway, no need to worry about preflash. Say something like this.
> 
> http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/62712-REG/Wein_W940030_HS_Hot_Shoe_Slave.html


 
That would work. Of course there's the limitation of the optical slave as originally mention. There's other wireless triggers that are reliable though.



Alleh Lindquist said:


> You will also need a PC socket adaptor for your SB-600's. Pocket wizards are the best though.


 
Yep. But most expensive. I have four and I'm thinking about a third, but I've been using Alien Bees lately. Most studio strobes have optical slaves built in and mainly I shoot in low light places.



D40 said:


> Ok, so I would need one PW for each flash, that answeres that. I just noticed that with the on camer trigger, the distance and direction of the flash to the camera affect how well it works. There is not kit that has a main transmitter on the camera with recievers that connect to the flashes is there? The PW are $200 or so each which gets sorta $$$ Thanks I will look on that web site later tonight!


 
One PW for each flash and one for the camera. 3 total if you want to go completely wireless. Then you need two 3.5mm monophone to hotshoe cables. About $600, but totally worth it if you _must_ have the best and you _must_ have reliability. They're transceivers so it means that they can transmit or receive. You can use the same PW you use on the hotshoe of the camera on one of your flashes the next day. That means if one breaks, you're not totally screwed.

Plus they're the industry standard. I just ordered a light meter that can trigger PW's. There's also certain brands of strobes that have PW modules in them and will fire via a PW.

There's other brands out there though. Elinchrom Skyports are considered extremely reliable and worth the money. They're about $300 for a transmitter and two receivers. There's pros and cons of course, but everyone I know that uses them are happy.

There's Alien Bee Cyber Syncs which are new but are proving reliable and even cheaper than the Skyports right now. These don't have the range of the PW, but nothing that I have seen has the advertised range of up to 1600'.

It's personal preference and budget. Go with what you can afford. If you think you'll need the PW's, then start saving.


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## Helen B (Oct 20, 2008)

There's also the Nikon SU-800 infrared commander. That sits in the D40's hotshoe and communicates with the SB-600s. It has the disadvantage that it is infrared rather than radio, but it does permit much more control by/from the camera. It can be converted to radio with a Radiopopper system.

Best,
Helen


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## D40 (Oct 29, 2008)

Ok, well for starters I would just get 2 PW, one for the camera and one for the SB-600. Ok, so to see if I understand this:

~One pocket wizard goes on the camera.
~Then I need one of those hotshoe pieces to put the SB-600 on that way I can connect a 3.5mm monophone to hotshoe cable to the hotshoe and PW.
?


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## D40 (Oct 29, 2008)

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/89977-REG/Hama_HA_6950_Universal_Flash_Adapter.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/441353-REG/PocketWizard_801_125_Plus_II_Transceiver_Radio.html

That right?


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## JerryPH (Oct 29, 2008)

I am wondering why as an amateur you are considering 2 PWs at 400 bucks total when you could have the Gadget infinity triggers for about 50 bucks *total* for 2 receivers and 1 trigger?

Thats what I use now and have triggered my flashes as a test from over 350 feet away.  I cannot imagine myself ever needing more, nor paying 180-200 per unit.  If I was pro, sure why not, but as an amateur, unless you have the money to toss away... consider looking at your more reasonable alternatives.


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## goodoneian (Oct 29, 2008)

i was wondering the same thing as jerry, but if you want pocket wizzards and can afford it, why not i guess.


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## Village Idiot (Oct 30, 2008)

Because GI triggers won't do this:
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=592566


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## JerryPH (Oct 30, 2008)

Village Idiot said:


> Because GI triggers won't do this:
> http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=592566



I wonder how many times even in your life, YOU will do it?  :lmao:

We all know that the PWs are consistent and that they trigger from almost a mile away.  The fact is, though, that 99% of photographers are under 30 feet away when they do their shooting.

So, the question is... if you are an amateur, are not one of the fortunate ones with unlimited funds... *is* the PW worth it for you?  

For me, I now have 9 receivers and 3 triggers.  Grand total invested for *all* of this was under $250 w/shipping.  For me to duplicate this setup with pocket wizards means that I would need 12 PWs, so 12 X 190 comes to over $2300 with shipping.  That's the same price as a Nikon D700 body, for Pete's sake!

Triggering had better be CRITICAL to your shooting to justify that amount.

I have modded the GI triggers for the simple cost of a 12.39 inch piece of single strand CAT5 wire for the triggers to increase their reliable triggering distance to over 350 feet.  I have modded the receivers so that they use standard rechargeable AA batteries instead of the short lasting $12 dollar batteries they use (the battery holders were under 70 cents each!).

It is not a mile away, but really, how many of us on this site... or even in *all* of photography combined... need more than a 30-60 foot of range from their triggers?

My tests done at 100ft:






My tests done at 200ft:





My tests done at 358ft:





This was the instrument that I used and the final distance I recorded:





This was not the maximum range of my shots, this was the maximum amount of room I had before running out of distance to measure.  For me to go further, I would have needed to trespass on someone's yard, and at that point, I did not feel it was necessary.

For my tests to be valid, each shot had to be taken 3 times from 3 different positions (camera high overhead, normal standing height and on my shoe, ground level).  In the end each test shot distance was taken 4 times.  The 4th shot was with my body between the flash and the trigger, my back to the flash as I was bent over taking the picture of the distance on the measuring wheel.  I had visual confirmation from my father that the flash triggered each and every time (though it was not a criteria for me to consider the test a success or not).

Consistency... I have well over 3500 shots on my setup to date (not on the camera, just shots taken while using the GI triggers).  In *all* this time, the only misfire I got was while doing the initial distance test, a random extra test shot at 358 feet (an additional 10 shots from that distance immediately after this one misfire, did not recreate that misfire.  It happened just that one time).

I figure that if they are good for over 300 feet for me, they are damn good at 30-100 feet (my maximum predicted ranges that I will ever use), for me without concerns.

What your needs may or may not be is something that you all individually need to consider when pulling out your credit cards.


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## benhasajeep (Oct 30, 2008)

Just a question about how your setting up your SB-600's.

Are you turning the body of the flash so the sensor is towards your camera? Most big Nikon flashes rotate 180 one way and 90 the other, plus tilt up and down some (900, 800, 600, 80 etc...). By being able to rotate the head you can point the sensor on the main body of the flash towards the camera. Then turn the flash head, and angle it for the desired flash angle for the picture.

You may be doing this, I don't know but just a suggestion. I have not experienced any problems using a mix of Nikon flashes this way. I have even used my Canon flash in the mix with no problems. In the short distances involved in studio use, you should have no errors at all doing it this way.


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## JerryPH (Oct 30, 2008)

D40 said:


> ~Then I need one of those hotshoe pieces to put the SB-600 on that way I can connect a 3.5mm monophone to hotshoe cable to the hotshoe and PW.
> ?



Becuase the SB-600 has no sync cord connector, you need one of these:






http://flashzebra.com/wizardcables/hotshoe.shtml


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## Village Idiot (Oct 30, 2008)

benhasajeep said:


> Just a question about how your setting up your SB-600's.
> 
> Are you turning the body of the flash so the sensor is towards your camera? Most big Nikon flashes rotate 180 one way and 90 the other, plus tilt up and down some (900, 800, 600, 80 etc...). By being able to rotate the head you can point the sensor on the main body of the flash towards the camera. Then turn the flash head, and angle it for the desired flash angle for the picture.
> 
> You may be doing this, I don't know but just a suggestion. I have not experienced any problems using a mix of Nikon flashes this way. I have even used my Canon flash in the mix with no problems. In the short distances involved in studio use, you should have no errors at all doing it this way.


 
But when you go outside or start putting barriers in between flashes that will limit the light but not a radio signal could be a problem.

Not all GI triggers are created equal and some may work, but they may only work 75% of the time. Some may work 90% of the time. Some may work 25% of the time. Sure you can send them back, but if you have a trigger that's working most of the time, would you want to bother sending it back?

Plus there's other alternatives to PW's. Cyber syncs, skyports, etc...

But PW's are the industry standard. I like being able to fire mine with my Sekonic light meter and one day when I can afford strobes that are $2000 a piece, I'll buy a set of studio lights with PW modules built in.


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## platano (Oct 30, 2008)

JerryPH said:


> I wonder how many times even in your life, YOU will do it?  :lmao:
> 
> I have modded the GI triggers for the simple cost of a 12.39 inch piece of single strand CAT5 wire for the triggers to increase their reliable triggering distance to over 350 feet.  I have modded the receivers so that they use standard rechargeable AA batteries instead of the short lasting $12 dollar batteries they use (the battery holders were under 70 cents each!).




can you post pics of your modded gear, and like a "HOW-TO" tutorial on how you did it? Im pretty dumb on these modding things.  I wanna get a wireless set up like that since I just bought my SB-600 and looked a Nick Turpins photography


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## Village Idiot (Oct 30, 2008)

platano said:


> can you post pics of your modded gear, and like a "HOW-TO" tutorial on how you did it? Im pretty dumb on these modding things. I wanna get a wireless set up like that since I just bought my SB-600 and looked a Nick Turpins photography


 
Here's one way to do it. A link for the tutorial is in the first post:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/strobist/discuss/72157602622255547/

you just need the parts and some soldering ability.


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## D40 (Oct 30, 2008)

Why I want PW is a good question. True I am an amateur but I don't want to spend money on something that is going to work 90% of the time. I had looked at some triggers that are much cheaper and had heard that they may fire and may not. The mid range triggers are not that much cheaper from what I have seen, for instance I have heard good things about:

http://www.ppmag.com/web-exclusives/2007/10/flash-waves-wireless-synch-kit.html

These look great and seem to get good reviews so but I don't find as much about them and to many places that sell them. I am just interested in getting a running price of what the PW would cost so I can decide if they are going to be worth it. I think you can get the Flash Waves for $250 with 1 transmitter and 2 receivers. So, I am not buying anything yet. Here is they way I look at it, if I asked these questions and have people tell me that the PW are well worth the money that is the best way to go then I would save up for 1-2 of them. To me haveing to wait and save for a better product is worth it, as apposed to running out and buying a cheaper itam just to have them now. Make any sense? By the way if anyone can tell me about these Flash Waves I would appreciate it 

As to the comment on turning the flash so the sensor is toward the camera...Thanks I had not thought of that. I had used the Nikon CLS and it was very iffy as to when it worked and I just can't stand useing something that is not going to work when I need it


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## D40 (Oct 30, 2008)

http://www.tallyns.com/tpp/amazing/itemdesc.asp?ic=3101020&eq=FALLSPEC%2E10&Tp

Here a receiver and transmitter is $189. But another receiver is $150


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## Helen B (Oct 30, 2008)

Have you considered the Radiopoppers I gave the link to? Nikon CLS control over radio instead of IR.

Best,
Helen


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## D40 (Oct 30, 2008)

I had not, I did not see the link over on the side. I just now went to there site


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## JerryPH (Oct 30, 2008)

platano said:


> can you post pics of your modded gear, and like a "HOW-TO" tutorial on how you did it?



I can.  It is ridiculously easy.

http://jerryphpics.blogspot.com/2008/07/004-cactus-v2s-modifications.html


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## JerryPH (Oct 30, 2008)

Radio poppers are VERY cool, but again, in that same price range... and they have a very ugly (IMHO) poorly thought out system.  I was very gung ho about getting them the moment they became available in Canada... but that changed as soon as I saw one and played with one in real life.

Still, wireless CLS is nothing to sneeze at!


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## platano (Oct 31, 2008)

Thanks for the tutorial guys.


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## Village Idiot (Oct 31, 2008)

Radio Poopers wood bee grate, butt they can't just trigger a non wireless TTL source. I mean, I can use my PW's or any other wireless trigger for pretty much any strobe out there as long as it has a hot shoe or sync port. Radio Poppers are easily only usable with about only 15% of the strobes out there where other wireless triggers are not. 

I'm not saying long range wireless TTL is bad, but they could have very easily added a port for a 3.5mm miniphone cable and had an awesome device. As it is now, they cost about as much as Pocket Wizards, then they require to buy expensive TTL strobes. I can use a $35 Vivitar with my PW's.


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## D40 (Oct 31, 2008)

Ya the radio poppers are out, I did not like them to much either. I also looked at the Elinchrom Skyport but they are not that much cheaper than the PW, Also I do not like the button battery that is used in the transmitter and the fact that the receiver uses a built in rechargable battery. I like useing the AAA and AA batteries better.


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## Helen B (Oct 31, 2008)

I don't think that there would be any point in using a Radiopopper with simple strobes - that's not what they are for and so that's probably why they left the sync socket off (they did consider it, I believe). They are intended for something like CLS control (not necessarily TTL) over radio instead of IR. I can only see them being used by someone with an all-Nikon CLS (for example) system who wishes to keep the full functionality by central remote control rather than people like me who have a mix of systems and are happy to run around between strobes adjusting powers.

Best,
Helen


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## Village Idiot (Nov 3, 2008)

Helen B said:


> I don't think that there would be any point in using a Radiopopper with simple strobes - that's not what they are for and so that's probably why they left the sync socket off (they did consider it, I believe). They are intended for something like CLS control (not necessarily TTL) over radio instead of IR. I can only see them being used by someone with an all-Nikon CLS (for example) system who wishes to keep the full functionality by central remote control rather than people like me who have a mix of systems and are happy to run around between strobes adjusting powers.
> 
> Best,
> Helen


 
They're usable with pretty much any wireless TTL strobe I believe. Canon, Sigma, etc...

But what I'm saying is that they would be a much more viable option for photographers if they had a simple triggering port on them. I know people that shoot with wireless TTL strobes and with studio lights. It would be rediculously expensive to spend almost $800 on just triggers for extra range with your speed lights, then have to go and spend for additional triggers to fire any other lights you may be using.

I'm sure it wouldn't have cost that much more to have a sync port installed and then they could have had a much larger target audience.



D40 said:


> Ya the radio poppers are out, I did not like them to much either. I also looked at the Elinchrom Skyport but they are not that much cheaper than the PW, Also I do not like the button battery that is used in the transmitter and the fact that the receiver uses a built in rechargable battery. I like useing the AAA and AA batteries better.


 
Really? They're half the price of the PW's.


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## table1349 (Nov 3, 2008)

Village Idiot said:


> They're usable with pretty much any wireless TTL strobe I believe. Canon, Sigma, etc...
> 
> But what I'm saying is that they would be a much more viable option for photographers if they had a simple triggering port on them. I know people that shoot with wireless TTL strobes and with studio lights. It would be rediculously expensive to spend almost $800 on just triggers for extra range with your speed lights, then have to go and spend for additional triggers to fire any other lights you may be using.
> 
> ...



The problem with radio poppers is that they are not triggers in the truest sense of the word.  Rather they are a repeater that sends the standard TTL IR signal to a greater distance from the transmitter to the receiver.  They emit the same IR light via the fiber optic cable to the TTL strobe via radio signals.  My guess is that to include the necessary hardware to make them work as they do now and add the wireless triggering mechanism would be expensive.


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## Helen B (Nov 3, 2008)

Yes, that's the point. They are just dumb relays of the brand-specific data signal, there is no logic built into the Radiopopper. If the IR signal from the master is usable by the slave, the IR signal from the Radiopopper receiver will be usable in the same way by the slave because it will be the same signal.

It's not necessarily TTL control, of course - in fact with multiple flash TTL control isn't all that much use but remote manual ratio control certainly is.

Best,
Helen


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