# Mirrorless shopping



## pixmedic

need some mirrorless options. 
leaning towards a sony a7 (prices are pretty good on them)
but don't want to miss out on other options. 
would like a system with a decent fast lens selection so i can eventually pick up some good glass for it. (something around the 40-150 f/2.8 range and maybe a 12-40 f2.8. maybe a prime or two)

also considering APS-C with the fuji line.....but the fuji lenses are _*really*_ pricey. 
considering m4/3 as well, but im a little unsure about dropping to that small of a sensor. lens selection is really good though, and its a compact system. i would probably be considering something like the older E-M1, E-M5, or E-M10 models with a fast zoom lens. 

honestly, im trying not to go overboard. we rarely pick up a camera outside of client work so I don't want to drop a _*ton *_of money on something that is definitely going sit in the bag more often than not. 
_*Viewfinder and hot shoe mount are a must have**. *_

have I missed any viable options?
samsung maybe?
i really dont know very much about mirrorless cameras so i have a lot of research to do. 
I will almost certainly be buying used or refurbished.


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## cherylynne1

Sony has very high quality lenses with Zeiss, but the native mirrorless line (E-mount) doesn't have any f2.8 zooms. They are all variable or fixed f4. There are a number of fast primes. Or, if weight and size are not a huge concern, you can add an adapter (LA-E4) and use the Sony A-mount line, which does have f2.8 zooms. I know for sure there's 24-70 and 70-200, but I'm sure there are also a few in the ranges you mentioned. The problem is that f2.8 full frame zooms are large by design, and no one's been able to fix that yet. 

If you can deal with f4, there's a 18-105, 24-240, 10-18, 24-70, and 70-200, all available in the native E-mount. The full frame primes are really what Sony receives praise for, however. That new 25/2 Zeiss Batis gets killer reviews. So do the 35, 55, and the new 85 (which I'm lusting after.) c

Hope this helps!


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## dxqcanada

There is a “Sony event” coming the first week of February |  sonyalpharumors

(SR5) This is the logo of the new Sony “G-Master” lens line! First lens is the 24-70mm f/2.8. |  sonyalpharumors


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## cherylynne1

My poor heart can't handle SAR anymore...they get me all hyped up and then let me down over and over again....

On the other hand, the a6000 is almost two years old. And the price dropped to the lowest ever a couple months ago. 

And is it so crazy to think that a 135/2 might be on the horizon? Or maybe they are going to release a 24-70 2.8, even if it is big and heavy? Or could they have figured out a way to balance it out well? 

See, it's happening again. *sobs*


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## jsaras

The Olymus Pro 12-40
f2.8 lens (24-80mm equiv) makes a strong case for the m43 system.  The lenses and cameras are small and the IQ is excellent.  You can pixel-peep images on Flickr to get an idea of the capabilities of the system.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## pixmedic

jsaras said:


> The Olymus Pro 12-40
> f2.8 lens (24-80mm equiv) makes a strong case for the m43 system.  The lenses and cameras are small and the IQ is excellent.  You can pixel-peep images on Flickr to get an idea of the capabilities of the system.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I have considered a m4/3 system, but let me give you some of my thoughts on that matter. 
I had an Olympus E-PL5 a few years ago with some kit lenses and was unimpressed. i found the 3 axis IS to be...not so great. The button layout and controls were also pretty ponderous if you wanted to shoot in manual (which I did) 
Granted, you really cant compare the E-PL5 to the E-M5 or E-m10 cameras, so I don't really know if I would fare better with one of those. 
my other concern was stepping down from a FX sensor to a M4/3 sensor (being even smaller than DX)
I really like the low light performance of the FX cameras. But...you pay for the privilege of shooting Full Frame in higher camera and lens prices. For a camera I_* know*_ I will rarely use...im hesitant to spend FX prices.  The Oly PRO lenses are expensive, but the camera bodies a model back, like the E-M5 and E-M10, are not. even the MarkII versions of those cameras are well under $1k used.  

my only serious consideration for a FX mirrorless would be the Sony A7. They can be had for under $1k. 
lenses...kinda pricey though. 
if I went the A7 route, I might just start with a prime or two and work into the $1k+ fast zooms. 

I guess my biggest consideration for going M4/3 is that I can get an older top-end body for cheap, then supplement with good lenses. I wont have to drop $1k+ on a body AND $1k for each fast zoom.


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## jaomul

I'm not saying one is better than the other blah blah, because I don't know.

I have an Olympus em5. It's crap at continuous focus, but it's pretty damn good at everything else. The only thing is that it won't give you as much separation as bigger sensor cams, but it's going very cheaply. The super control panel (scp) allows touch focus and even takes the shot if you want it to. It's brilliant for portraits, just touch the eye etc and it's single focus speed is practically instantaneous, and you can bring it out in the rain, and it's light.

(Terms and conditions apply, Olympus have given a bag of lenses for this review  )


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## beagle100

pixmedic said:


> need some mirrorless options.
> leaning towards a sony a7 (prices are pretty good on them)
> but don't want to miss out on other options.
> would like a system with a decent fast lens selection so i can eventually pick up some good glass for it. (something around the 40-150 f/2.8 range and maybe a 12-40 f2.8. maybe a prime or two)
> 
> also considering APS-C with the fuji line.....but the fuji lenses are _*really*_ pricey.
> considering m4/3 as well, but im a little unsure about dropping to that small of a sensor. lens selection is really good though, and its a compact system. i would probably be considering something like the older E-M1, E-M5, or E-M10 models with a fast zoom lens.
> 
> honestly, im trying not to go overboard. we rarely pick up a camera outside of client work so I don't want to drop a _*ton *_of money on something that is definitely going sit in the bag more often than not.
> _*Viewfinder and hot shoe mount are a must have**. *_
> 
> have I missed any viable options?
> samsung maybe?
> i really dont know very much about mirrorless cameras so i have a lot of research to do.
> I will almost certainly be buying used or refurbished.



the Sony A7 is nice 
an APS-C system is also nice for many situations 
 (especially with a $100 camera !)
www.flickr.com/photos/mmirrorless


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## IronMaskDuval

Hey, Pix. Maybe I can chime in and give you some insight.

I've owned both the em-5 and em-10 and now, the A7.

The IBIS on the em-10 was absolutely amazing for slower shutter speeds, but that was only at shooting still life or still portraits. My primary lens was the Panasonic 12-35 f/2.8, which was a great lens, but I couldn't stand the fact that the depth-of-field couldn't get shallow enough for my liking no matter how offensively close I got to my subjects. Here's a photo that I took with it. The image quality is great, but I personally don't enjoy not being able to blur the background more. Unfortunately, I do not have a pre-green photo. The shop's theme was a vintage green kind of thing, and I dunno where I filed the original. The em-10 is a lot better than the em-5 mki except for the weather sealing. The evf, I believe is the same as the em1, is just much much better. The focus peaking is also great for legacy lenses. I can't say much about the auto focusing. I've never had enough of an issue with it to complain.






Now the A7 is a different kind of beast. It's what I shoot now, and I keep my 50mm Zeiss Planar manual focus on the lens as my everyday carry. It's the best camera that I've ever owned, and I think I am settling on this until a very long time. I'll be honest with you however, Sony is complete utter crap at understanding photographers, and the UX/UI is just horrible. The benefits, however, outweighs that mess.

First and I think most important for most people is the autofocus. It's sh*t. It's just sh*t. I don't know how else to put it. It is clumsy and worthless when anything moves faster than a tortoise rushing to get into the ocean. I don't even know why they make AF lenses for this thing. I will at times use the kit lens, because it's not that bad at all image wise, but it's spray and pray for anything that moves. That's just not my style. I only use manual lenses for this thing.

Next flaw is the focus point selection. FFS, everyone knows to move the single focus point, you just push your damn arrows. Nope, not Sony. You have to set a custom button to activate the feature, then you move the focus point from there, but be careful! If you accidentally wiggle your thumb and turn the wheel, it'll switch over to ISO, and you're left with a big mess. Another reason why I shoot manual focus.

The battery. For the love of god, Sony needs to make a battery magazine like the ones people use in Gatling guns.

Last big gripe is the auto-iso. If you shoot in M with auto-iso on, your light meter will not meter. Boo. I like to shoot auto-iso when I'm outside shooting something that moves from shad to sun quickly.

BUT, here are the benefits. The obvious is that it is full frame and you get your beautiful subject/background separation. It also has focus peaking to help you manual focus (eliminates focus selection points) so that you can buy legacy lenses to your heart's content. The evf is absolutely amazing. I no longer use my light meter, because the evf will show exactly how my exposure will come out based on the exposure settings that my camera is set to. It can mount old e mount lenses. Although cropped down to 10.~ mp, it still delivers an outstanding photo with the apsc lenses. Cropping down, you can buy the 20mm 2.8 and have yourself a compact street cam. It's small. It's light. It looks psuedo retro.  All of the buttons, I rarely ever use any more. Shutter speed and release are generally the only ones I need anymore.

OH, I forgot. The shutter on the A7 sounds like someone slapping an elephant's ass.

I went from a D610 to mirrorless. I will never go back. The size and weight of these things are just too great to go back. The ability to shoot manual focus lenses because of focus peaking is also financially advantageous. I dunno. I think instead of helping, I just rambled.


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## Solarflare

Well, if I was forced at gunpoint to go mirrorless, I would pick Fuji. The Fuji X-T1 IR would be my pick because its the only camera I know of that gets IR and UV conversion by the original producer already (which is typically quite expensive and screws up the UI of the camera). The 27mm f2.8 Pancake seems to be tolerable for UV and the 23mm f1.4 and 18-135mm f3.5-5.6 OIS WR are good with IR. Also of course filters to mask whatever part of light you dont want to record right now.

Second choice would be MFT. The GH4 is a great video camera, thats what I would go for.

If somebody forced me to go Sony FE, my pick would be the A7s with Mitakon 50mm f0.95. A great lowlight combo, obviously.

About Fuji glas being expensive - so is a lot of Sony FE glas, but unlike Fujis offer, its not even worth it. Good Sony FE glas is atm: 16-35mm f4 OSS, 28mm f2, 35mm f1.4 (a huge prime), 55mm f1.8 and 90mm f2.8 macro OSS. Otherwise one could go for Zeiss Batis and/or Loxia lines, but they are ... well, far from completion. Adaption is an option, however there might be issues, because theres a glas over a digital sensor which wasnt necessary in film days, so that might lead to ugly effects.


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## Gary A.

I have MFT (EM1's) and APS_C (Xt1's, XP1's, X100S) ... I much prefer the IQ of the Fuji, The EVF of the Fuji and the exceptionally sharp and build quality of the Fuji lenses over my MFT lenses Oly/Panasonic/Panasonic-Leica. I found the Fuji to be a great compromise between the small footprint of MFT and the IQ of FF.

Yes, Fujinon lenses are on the more expensive side, but every XF lens I own is, at a minimum, equal to the equivalent 'L' lens at a significantly lower cost. (With XF you are purchasing a premium lens.)

Fuji makes a 16-55 f/2.8 and a 50-140 f/2.8. These are wonderful lenses, not small, not inexpensive, but deliver a great image up and down the entire focal lengths.

From Godspell:





16-55 @ 55mm





50-140 @ 94.5mm

and Fuji makes a 10-24 f/4




10-24 @ 10mm


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## pixmedic

Viewfinder and hot shoe mount requirements have somewhat limited my choices. In fuji, it looks like it would be between the x-t1 and the x-t10. Very similar cameras from what my research shows. The x-t1 is older,  but has more dials and is weather sealed, with recent firmware updates bringing it in line with the newer x-t10's software advances.  It's a tough choice...i like the fact that the x-t1 has an ISO dial, but the x-t10 is a few hundred bucks cheaper.

I do like fujis lens lineup.


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## Gary A.

The XP2 will be out in a few weeks. It reportedly has a 24mp APS-C sensor, improved AF and stuff. It has that sexy Leica/rangefinder look with a hybrid viewfinder.  It's coming in at about $1600.

I think there may be a lot of used XT1's floating around when the XP2 is launched.

If you like primes, Fuji's primes are pretty amazing.

Remember that with EVF's you'll get blackouts between shots. It will take a bit to get used to.  I have trained myself to sorta ignore the blackouts in order to minimalize the annoyance.  Today I shot more theatre and I purposely un-ignored the blackouts.  And yep, the blackout are there and they are annoying.  The XT1 EVF is huge and wonderful ... But you have to learn to adapt to the blackouts, especially when shooting in continuous mode.


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## jaomul

pixmedic said:


> Viewfinder and hot shoe mount requirements have somewhat limited my choices. In fuji, it looks like it would be between the x-t1 and the x-t10. Very similar cameras from what my research shows. The x-t1 is older,  but has more dials and is weather sealed, with recent firmware updates bringing it in line with the newer x-t10's software advances.  It's a tough choice...i like the fact that the x-t1 has an ISO dial, but the x-t10 is a few hundred bucks cheaper.
> 
> I do like fujis lens lineup.



Just one thing to add, if you intend on editing raw files and Lightroom is your software of choice, do a little more ground work on this if you have not already. Fuji cameras are very nice, making very nice jpegs, but I believe you need kind of specific software to get the best from their raws


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## pixmedic

jaomul said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Viewfinder and hot shoe mount requirements have somewhat limited my choices. In fuji, it looks like it would be between the x-t1 and the x-t10. Very similar cameras from what my research shows. The x-t1 is older,  but has more dials and is weather sealed, with recent firmware updates bringing it in line with the newer x-t10's software advances.  It's a tough choice...i like the fact that the x-t1 has an ISO dial, but the x-t10 is a few hundred bucks cheaper.
> 
> I do like fujis lens lineup.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just one thing to add, if you intend on editing raw files and Lightroom is your software of choice, do a little more ground work on this if you have not already. Fuji cameras are very nice, making very nice jpegs, but I believe you need kind of specific software to get the best from their raws
Click to expand...

Was unaware of any issues with fuji raw files and Lightroom. I'll have to check into that. If I go fuji, I may wait until that new camera comes out and see if the prices on the x-t1 drop a little.


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## Gary A.

When Fuji first came out with their non-Bayer sensor, manipulations in Lightroom were problematic.  I believe those problems have been resolved for some time. (I don't use Lightroom.) But there are better photo processing programs for Fuji than Lightroom. At 100%, PhotoNinja and Capture One seem to do a much better job than Lightroom ... Maybe it is Fuji specific, or it may be they do a better job on across the entire manufacturer spectrum, (except marketing).

I'm using Aperture, (until it dies), for RAW conversion and global manipulation, then CS6 to polish.  With the XP2 I'll probably use C1 or Affinity.


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## Solarflare

AFAIK the best Fuji X converter is Irident Developer, unfortunately thats a Mac only program.

Best X-Trans RAW Converter

Didnt heard many good things about Lightroom.




Gary A. said:


> If you like primes, Fuji's primes are pretty amazing.


 Yes. And so are their zooms.


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## PropilotBW

It's a hard choice.  I hope you are able to find an option that works well for you. 

I really like my EM5ii.   I have a couple really good pieces of glass and I have faith that the M4/3 system is only going to get better and better.  
Like any camera, it has its weaknesses.  The major weakness I find is focus tracking of moving objects (birds in particular).   For all else, I've found it to be superior to my old D5100. 
Some features of mirrorless cameras are Really cool, like looking through the EVF and seeing EXACTLY what the picture is going to look like at the snap.  
Also mirrorless cameras have some nice long-exposure settings that eliminate over-under exposures.   Again, VERY cool.  
You say you're concerned with dropping to that small of a sensor.  Why is this?  Depth of field sacrifices?  Low light capabilities?   I would recommend researching professional photographers that use M4/3 system for their work.  There are definitely some fantastic lens options to support this line of work, you just have to know the limitations of the camera (which also goes with any other camera as well).    I've done a couple portrait sessions with this system, and they've turned out pretty good!
You can't go wrong with the Olympus 12-40 f2.8.   It's a fantastic lens at a great price.   You can find one used for less than $800.   The prime lenses are also fantastic.  I have the Olympus 45 1.8 and Panasonic 25 1.7.  
Best of all with my system, it's SMALL.  
It sounds like this is the reason you're selling all your other equipment, because it's cumbersome and heavy to lug around. 
This is the exact reason I went with M4/3, for the size.   It didn't make much sense for me to buy a Sony or Fuji and still have a fairly large system.  

Of course, this works well for me, and Not necessarily another shooter.  Hope this helps.  Good luck in your search.


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## runnah

the good thing about Sony is that if you don't like their choices wait a week!

But yeah their glass selection is terrible.


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## pixmedic

PropilotBW said:


> It's a hard choice.  I hope you are able to find an option that works well for you.
> 
> I really like my EM5ii.   I have a couple really good pieces of glass and I have faith that the M4/3 system is only going to get better and better.
> Like any camera, it has its weaknesses.  The major weakness I find is focus tracking of moving objects (birds in particular).   For all else, I've found it to be superior to my old D5100.
> Some features of mirrorless cameras are Really cool, like looking through the EVF and seeing EXACTLY what the picture is going to look like at the snap.
> Also mirrorless cameras have some nice long-exposure settings that eliminate over-under exposures.   Again, VERY cool.
> You say you're concerned with dropping to that small of a sensor.  Why is this?  Depth of field sacrifices?  Low light capabilities?   I would recommend researching professional photographers that use M4/3 system for their work.  There are definitely some fantastic lens options to support this line of work, you just have to know the limitations of the camera (which also goes with any other camera as well).    I've done a couple portrait sessions with this system, and they've turned out pretty good!
> You can't go wrong with the Olympus 12-40 f2.8.   It's a fantastic lens at a great price.   You can find one used for less than $800.   The prime lenses are also fantastic.  I have the Olympus 45 1.8 and Panasonic 25 1.7.
> Best of all with my system, it's SMALL.
> It sounds like this is the reason you're selling all your other equipment, because it's cumbersome and heavy to lug around.
> This is the exact reason I went with M4/3, for the size.   It didn't make much sense for me to buy a Sony or Fuji and still have a fairly large system.
> 
> Of course, this works well for me, and Not necessarily another shooter.  Hope this helps.  Good luck in your search.



Oh, I already know a photographer that has been using  a M4/3 camera for professional work for a while now. 
Sergei uses an E-M5 and does some amazeballs work. 
Featured: 'Mu43 Wedding Experience' by SSSYURRR
(I used to haunt this site back when I had my Oly E-PL5)

anyway...my biggest concern with the smaller sensor was low light performance. Granted,  maybe the E-PL5 was just not a very good camera to base the M4/3 system on, but it really sucked in low light. also, the 3 axis in-body stabilization also kinda sucked.  The sensor is just so much smaller than even a DX sensor, and there is just no way to really get around that fact. 
I think at this point, its more of a mental issue.  A not-so-great experience with a M4/3 camera coupled with not wanting to give up the advantages of a full frame sensor that I have come to enjoy. 

The real facts of the case are this  however...I really don't think whatever camera I get is going to be used all that often. 
on one hand, I could get into an Olympus system comparatively cheap, and it could sit in the camera bag just as easily as the Sony a7. on the other hand, on those rare times i actually feel like dragging the camera out, i wouldn't mind having a nice camera. 

what IS appealing about the m4/3 system is that it is small, and I can still fulfill my requirement of having a viewfinder and hot shoe flash. up until now, I would grab the Nikon1 when we go out instead of the D600 just because of how much a pain-in-the-ass hauling that big camera around was. Im really trying to talk myself into an Oly setup just because I think its a camera I might actually take out and use.


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## pixmedic

strongly considering an Olympus E-M1


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## PropilotBW

pixmedic said:


> strongly considering an Olympus E-M1



I think that's an excellent choice.  I don't think you can even compare your older EPL5 to the EM5ii or EM1.  You need some hands on research, if you don't have it already.   
  The nice thing I like with Olympus, is that they're really good at putting out software upgrades for their camera bodies.  The EM1 version 4.0 has some pretty nice features upgraded.  Including the autofocus!
The EM1 also has a phase detection autofocus, while the EM5 uses contrast. 
You can view my older posts to see some sample shots taken with the EM5ii.


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## Gary A.

The other day, while messing around my camera store, the store people had my web site up ... Then it dawned on me that it really wouldn't matter what camera system I was shooting, Canon FF, Nikon FF, Olympus MFT or Fuji APS-C ... I pretty much would have captured the same images with pretty much the equal success/impact.  I really believe that with the high baseline IQ of most all modern digital cameras that cameras are pretty much all equal (up to a 11x14 or 16x20 and under ISO 3200).

I like Fuji ... Well ... Because I like Fuji. It is a bit of a niche camera, they are beautiful cameras, they are well built cameras, but the images are not any significantly better, (in terms of impact/success), than Canon or Nikon or Oly, et al. A few years ago, during the early days of digital dSLR's, there were significant differences between sensor and cameras and IQ between the various manufacturers.  But now, the playing field has quite evened out in regards to IQ. BTW- Oly's 5 axis IBIS is absolutely wonderful.

If size is the most important factor ... then go MFT ... if style and looks are important then go Fuji ... if it's cost ... then go refurbished and MFT. At 100% you will see a difference between FF/APS-C/MFT ... But if you need a computer to see a difference, then there are no differences at all.

(Qualifier: For what I shoot and how I shoot. YMMV)


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## jaomul

I've had epl5, em5 and used an em1. Photos are all but identical. Just letting you know as you said not overly impressed with epl5. Obviously usability on the more pro cameras and IS is better


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## pixmedic

Whenever I hear m4/3 spoken of, it's always about olympus.
Is Panasonic a good option if i don't care about video?


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## jaomul

Olympus files are nicer

(Oh I'm not allowed say that because it's not quantifiable)

Olympus make cameras for photographers


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## IronMaskDuval

pixmedic said:


> Whenever I hear m4/3 spoken of, it's always about olympus.
> Is Panasonic a good option if i don't care about video?



I think Panasonic's video is much better than Oly's. The only difference between the two, however, is form factor. If you like the more traditional look of a dslr, go with Pany. If you like that retro look, go for Oly. I've used lenses from both, and I haven't seen much of a difference.


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## PropilotBW

By the way, this is a good time to shop.  Olympus has their best sales on their lenses.  $200 off the Pro 12-40mm is as good as you're going to see.  They run sales often, but it's usually $100 off the 12-40.


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## pixmedic

I just never hear anyone mention panasonic.
even back when i was on the m4/3 forum it was mostly olympus unless someone was doing video work.
sometimes people talked about putting panasonic lenses on olympus bodies, but i didnt hear as much about the pany bodies.


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## IronMaskDuval

pixmedic said:


> I just never hear anyone mention panasonic.
> even back when i was on the m4/3 forum it was mostly olympus unless someone was doing video work.
> sometimes people talked about putting panasonic lenses on olympus bodies, but i didnt hear as much about the pany bodies.



Have you seen the pany bodies? They're actually pretty hideous. If I had a choice between the Oly and a Pany, I'd choose the Oly just for looks, hands down. I've never owned a pany, but I've shot with one before and nothing came out of it that wasn't as exciting as what I found in Olys. When I had my Olys, I used a lot of Pany lens, only because that's what my rental place carried.


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## Gary A.

If you want style ... Go Fuji. (Period) But you gotta pay for style.

I have EM5's, EM1's, XP1's, XE2, XT1's ana X100S.  I actually prefer nearly every aspect of photographic implementation from IQ to aperture ring on lenses by Fuji over Olympus ... and I consider Olympus's implementation pretty good.  (It is company policy that all Olympus upper management to be trained as photographers, carry and use cameras. Which, is a pretty good policy.)

Here's a thought.  Do you really need an ILC?  I bet you can get by with a fixed lens camera. I use my X100S more than any other camera I own. It is small, it is handy, it delivers a great image and it has so much style it is sexy.  The hybrid viewfinder is wonderful. Yeah Fuji's are more pricey, but if you're planning to keep the camera for a long time, and it sounds like you will, you can rationalize the higher price via amortization.

In any event, Oly or Fuji, you'll be good.


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## IronMaskDuval

Gary A. said:


> If you want style ... Go Fuji. (Period) But you gotta pay for style.
> 
> I have EM5's, EM1's, XP1's, XE2, XT1's ana X100S.  I actually prefer nearly every aspect of photographic implementation from IQ to aperture ring on lenses by Fuji over Olympus ... and I consider Olympus's implementation pretty good.  (It is company policy that all Olympus upper management to be trained as photographers, carry and use cameras. Which, is a pretty good policy.)
> 
> Here's a thought.  Do you really need an ILC?  I bet you can get by with a fixed lens camera. I use my X100S more than any other camera I own. It is small, it is handy, it delivers a great image and it has so much style it is sexy.  The hybrid viewfinder is wonderful. Yeah Fuji's are more pricey, but if you're planning to keep the camera for a long time, and it sounds like you will, you can rationalize the higher price via amortization.
> 
> In any event, Oly or Fuji, you'll be good.



I second this. I would go Fuji if you're not going Sony. The XT10 isn't a bad option either.


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## pixmedic

Gary A. said:


> If you want style ... Go Fuji. (Period) But you gotta pay for style.
> 
> I have EM5's, EM1's, XP1's, XE2, XT1's ana X100S.  I actually prefer nearly every aspect of photographic implementation from IQ to aperture ring on lenses by Fuji over Olympus ... and I consider Olympus's implementation pretty good.  (It is company policy that all Olympus upper management to be trained as photographers, carry and use cameras. Which, is a pretty good policy.)
> 
> Here's a thought.  Do you really need an ILC?  I bet you can get by with a fixed lens camera. I use my X100S more than any other camera I own. It is small, it is handy, it delivers a great image and it has so much style it is sexy.  The hybrid viewfinder is wonderful. Yeah Fuji's are more pricey, but if you're planning to keep the camera for a long time, and it sounds like you will, you can rationalize the higher price via amortization.
> 
> In any event, Oly or Fuji, you'll be good.




i have been doing a little research on fuji and oly cameras. 
fuji wise, it would probably come down to the x-t1 or x-t10...similar cameras, but it seems the x-t1 has better/more buttons and weather sealing (dont really care about the weather sealing) the dedicated ISO button however...I kinda like that. but..the x-t1 is pricey. so are the fuji lenses. 

for olympus, it will probably be between the E-m1 and the e-m5. 
I like the e-m1 better, but ill have to see what the budget will allow.


----------



## Solarflare

Gary A. said:


> If you want style ... Go Fuji. (Period) But you gotta pay for style.


 Not really, Fuji has made a great system for photographers. It would be my top choice for a mirrorless system right now if I was forced to use one. It has for example excellent glas, a very good interface, great support for WiFi, and good support for flash (well, much better than for example Sony).



Gary A. said:


> In any event, Oly or Fuji, you'll be good.


 I agree with that.


----------



## IronMaskDuval

Oly pen-f. So sexy


----------



## pixmedic

IronMaskDuval said:


> Oly pen-f. So sexy






Oly E-PL5 with Konica AR 57mm f/1.2 by pixmedic, on Flickr


----------



## IronMaskDuval

Pen-f. Sexy


----------



## IronMaskDuval

Did you look at the pen-f? The specs are quite amazing, and you finally get the evf and a megapixel jump. I really like it. 

I know we've gotten all wrapped up about Oly and Fuji, but I think you should seriously consider the A7 or A7II, which I think are still the best mirrorless systems out there (all A7s). I know lens selection are few, but I think the tools Sony equip you with can get you great manual focused shots for the weddings that you shoot. 

If you are in absolute need for autofocus lenses, skip the metabones-- adapting Canon and Nikon, and go for the Sony made A to E mount, and you'll find the 24-70 and 70-200 2.8 zooms that you'd be looking for.

*Sony 24-70mm f/2.8 ZA SSM II Vario-Sonnar T* Lens*

*Tamron SP 70-200mm f/2.8 Di USD Zoom Lens for Sony*

*Tamron SP 24-70mm f/2.8 Di USD Lens for Sony Cameras*


----------



## PropilotBW

Why would somebody get the PEN over OMD?  I'm still not sure why Olympus has both body styles.   Is that just it?  Style?  They seem to function identically.   
You can only guess the EM-1ii is close behind with the same or better specs.


----------



## gsgary

PropilotBW said:


> Why would somebody get the PEN over OMD?  I'm still not sure why Olympus has both body styles.   Is that just it?  Style?  They seem to function identically.
> You can only guess the EM-1ii is close behind with the same or better specs.


If I didn't  have  an A7 I would have the pen because  of  style to go with my Leicas

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk


----------



## Ron Evers

IronMaskDuval said:


> View attachment 114997
> 
> Pen-f. Sexy



Lotsa bit & pieces to fall off.


----------



## IronMaskDuval

PropilotBW said:


> Why would somebody get the PEN over OMD?  I'm still not sure why Olympus has both body styles.   Is that just it?  Style?  They seem to function identically.
> You can only guess the EM-1ii is close behind with the same or better specs.



Style. I really like both. They do the same thing but I wouldn't mind having both bodies... Ya know, to go with my shoes...


----------



## pixmedic

I have been considering the Sony A7 just because of the full frame sensor,  but at this point, not doing any more client work,  I just want something I will actually take with me places. I took my nikon 1 with me when we went out just because the nikon gear was a pain to drag around. 

My only concern with the Sony would be the large FF lenses.


----------



## IronMaskDuval

pixmedic said:


> I have been considering the Sony A7 just because of the full frame sensor,  but at this point, not doing any more client work,  I just want something I will actually take with me places. I took my nikon 1 with me when we went out just because the nikon gear was a pain to drag around.
> 
> My only concern with the Sony would be the large FF lenses.



Well, the option to get the a7r is always there, and you can slap an apsc emount lens on there and be able to retain high resolution. If you're not doing client work anymore, manual focus wouldn't be out of question, right? Legacy lenses aren't so large. 

With the focus peaking and focus magnification, your old eyes won't be a barrier. But I understand your concerns. I do miss my oly for the sake of its size. Even with the pancake on my a7, the oly em5/10 were significantly smaller. I'm just not a fan of the aspect ratio and dof that the mft can achieve.


----------



## gsgary

pixmedic said:


> I have been considering the Sony A7 just because of the full frame sensor,  but at this point, not doing any more client work,  I just want something I will actually take with me places. I took my nikon 1 with me when we went out just because the nikon gear was a pain to drag around.
> 
> My only concern with the Sony would be the large FF lenses.


The lenses I use on mine are small main on is Voigtlander color Scopar 35mmF2.5 and 40mmF1.4

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk


----------



## PropilotBW

IronMaskDuval said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have been considering the Sony A7 just because of the full frame sensor,  but at this point, not doing any more client work,  I just want something I will actually take with me places. I took my nikon 1 with me when we went out just because the nikon gear was a pain to drag around.
> 
> My only concern with the Sony would be the large FF lenses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, the option to get the a7r is always there, and you can slap an apsc emount lens on there and be able to retain high resolution. If you're not doing client work anymore, manual focus wouldn't be out of question, right? Legacy lenses aren't so large.
> 
> With the focus peaking and focus magnification, your old eyes won't be a barrier. But I understand your concerns. I do miss my oly for the sake of its size. Even with the pancake on my a7, the oly em5/10 were significantly smaller. I'm just not a fan of the aspect ratio and dof that the mft can achieve.
Click to expand...


That just doesn't make sense.  Why would you buy a modern camera and be restricted to manual focus?  I like focus peaking when I choose to use manual focus, but don't want to rely on it all the time.  
And MFT does have depth of field.  It's not sensor size that creates DOF, it's optics.    You just have to know that it's different optics and adjust for that.   

Micro Four Thirds, depth of field test.


----------



## astroNikon

IronMaskDuval said:


> View attachment 114997
> 
> Pen-f. Sexy


Does that thing have an optional wired screw-in remote release?
I haven't seen that since my N80 / AE1 cameras.


----------



## Gary A.

astroNikon said:


> IronMaskDuval said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 114997
> 
> Pen-f. Sexy
> 
> 
> 
> Does that thing have an optional wired screw-in remote release?
> I haven't seen that since my N80 / AE1 cameras.
Click to expand...

The Fuji rangefinder-like cameras have the screw-in cable release options (X100T, X-E2, XP1).





I still think you would do nicely with a fixed lens X100T.


----------



## IronMaskDuval

Gary A. said:


> astroNikon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IronMaskDuval said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 114997
> 
> Pen-f. Sexy
> 
> 
> 
> Does that thing have an optional wired screw-in remote release?
> I haven't seen that since my N80 / AE1 cameras.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Fuji rangefinder-like cameras have the screw-in cable release options (X100T, X-E2, XP1).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I still think you would do nicely with a fixed lens X100T.
Click to expand...



Is there a teleconvertor for this thing that goes above 50mm?


----------



## pixmedic

For any a7 users, how is the AF on that camera? I've read varying reports on it. An inability to choose focus points? Poor focus lock on moving objects? (Not really a huge issue for me) 
An a7 is still a strong contender, but an oly e-m1 or e-m5 also looks real good with the great oly lens lineup. 
Anyone with an oly able to comment on the AF?
Also does the e-m5 have the 5 axis IS like the e-m1?


----------



## IronMaskDuval

pixmedic said:


> For any a7 users, how is the AF on that camera? I've read varying reports on it. An inability to choose focus points? Poor focus lock on moving objects? (Not really a huge issue for me)
> An a7 is still a strong contender, but an oly e-m1 or e-m5 also looks real good with the great oly lens lineup.
> Anyone with an oly able to comment on the AF?
> Also does the e-m5 have the 5 axis IS like the e-m1?



Auto on still subjects is fine. You can select the focus point, but you have to set a custom button to activate the feature. Weird


----------



## jaomul

EM5 has the fancy IS like the EM1


----------



## gsgary

I have never used auto focus on mine but it is very easy to manual focus and very quick

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk


----------



## Gary A.

IronMaskDuval said:


> Gary A. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> astroNikon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IronMaskDuval said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 114997
> 
> Pen-f. Sexy
> 
> 
> 
> Does that thing have an optional wired screw-in remote release?
> I haven't seen that since my N80 / AE1 cameras.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Fuji rangefinder-like cameras have the screw-in cable release options (X100T, X-E2, XP1).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I still think you would do nicely with a fixed lens X100T.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Is there a teleconvertor for this thing that goes above 50mm?
Click to expand...

Yeah, one for wider and one for longer.


----------



## Gary A.

jaomul said:


> EM5 has the fancy IS like the EM1







E-M5 @ 1/15 with the Oly 45mm (equal to 90mm in FF), handheld


----------



## IronMaskDuval

jaomul said:


> EM5 has the fancy IS like the EM1





pixmedic said:


> I have been considering the Sony A7 just because of the full frame sensor,  but at this point, not doing any more client work,  I just want something I will actually take with me places. I took my nikon 1 with me when we went out just because the nikon gear was a pain to drag around.
> 
> My only concern with the Sony would be the large FF lenses.



You know, I forgot about another camera. I know this is a type of camera that rarely gets attention around here, but since you are no longer shooting for clients, have you considered the Leica Typ 109 or its Chinese made counterpart, the Lumix LX100? It's a compact with a 1.7-2.8 lens. It's also the only compact  that has an mft sensor with a fast zoom, although it doesn't use all of it to allow it to change aspect ratio. These two cameras take beautiful photos.


----------



## pixmedic

IronMaskDuval said:


> jaomul said:
> 
> 
> 
> EM5 has the fancy IS like the EM1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have been considering the Sony A7 just because of the full frame sensor,  but at this point, not doing any more client work,  I just want something I will actually take with me places. I took my nikon 1 with me when we went out just because the nikon gear was a pain to drag around.
> 
> My only concern with the Sony would be the large FF lenses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know, I forgot about another camera. I know this is a type of camera that rarely gets attention around here, but since you are no longer shooting for clients, have you considered the Leica Typ 109 or its Chinese made counterpart, the Lumix LX100? It's a compact with a 1.7-2.8 lens. It's also the only compact  that has an mft sensor with a fast zoom, although it doesn't use all of it to allow it to change aspect ratio. These two cameras take beautiful photos.
Click to expand...


Right now I want to stick with an ILC. 
Maybe it's just because I have become so acclimated to them. 
I think my three top choices would be
Sony a7, fuji x-t1, and oly e-m1.
I MIGHT look at substituting an x-t10 for the x-t1and an e-m5 for the e-m1


----------



## pixmedic

hey, does anyone consider a Samsung mirrorless to be a decent consideration?
maybe a NX-30? the NX-1 is a little too pricey and falls into the price range where I would just get a sony FF camera. 
the nx30 specs look pretty good. 20mp, focus peaking, inexpensive...the reviews for it were pretty good.


----------



## cherylynne1

Isn't Samsung getting out of the camera business? There might not be any future support if that's the case. But I could be wrong, I haven't actually looked into it. 

Also, did you hear that Sony just announced a 24-70 2.8 and 70-200 2.8? I know you mentioned you wanted that if you went with the a7.


----------



## pixmedic

cherylynne1 said:


> Isn't Samsung getting out of the camera business? There might not be any future support if that's the case. But I could be wrong, I haven't actually looked into it.
> 
> Also, did you hear that Sony just announced a 24-70 2.8 and 70-200 2.8? I know you mentioned you wanted that if you went with the a7.



nah, doesnt look like samsung is actually getting out of the camera business. 

Rumor busted: Samsung is *not* exiting the camera business! (At least, not the one you care about.)

Samsung Denies Exit From Camera Market & Nikon Sell Out Rumors

a fast zoom like those wont be in the budget for a while, even used. 
on paper, the samsung nx30 looks pretty good, and its actually fairly inexpensive. 
the biggest issue im finding is a lack of lenses. there isnt much more than the kit lenses around on ebay. 
the 50-150 f/2.8 is $1500, and the 85mm f/1.4 is $800. theres a 16-50 f/2-2.8 for $1500 as well. 
the 45 f/1.8 is affordable though.  i just wish samsung made an 85 f/1.8 as well.


----------



## cherylynne1

Oh, it was this Adorama thing from a couple weeks ago that I heard about: Rumor mill keeps on turning: Samsung NX lenses marked as “closeout”

But it looks like there's even an update on that article that it's no longer listed as closeout. Never mind me.


----------



## jaomul

@pixmedic What did you end up with?


----------



## pixmedic

jaomul said:


> @pixmedic What did you end up with?


I haven't decided yet...still looking at options. It's maddening. 
I'm looking at a Samsung nx30 as a possibility. Lens selection aside....I won't need much in the way of lenses anyway.

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk


----------



## IronMaskDuval

pixmedic said:


> jaomul said:
> 
> 
> 
> @pixmedic What did you end up with?
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't decided yet...still looking at options. It's maddening.
> I'm looking at a Samsung nx30 as a possibility. Lens selection aside....I won't need much in the way of lenses anyway.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


I don't know of if you saw my post, but I bought a Fuji xe1 for $180 the other day. I love it. A lot. Paired with the nice 2.8 kit zoom, you'll be pretty set.


----------



## pixmedic

IronMaskDuval said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jaomul said:
> 
> 
> 
> @pixmedic What did you end up with?
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't decided yet...still looking at options. It's maddening.
> I'm looking at a Samsung nx30 as a possibility. Lens selection aside....I won't need much in the way of lenses anyway.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't know of if you saw my post, but I bought a Fuji xe1 for $180 the other day. I love it. A lot. Paired with the nice 2.8 kit zoom, you'll be pretty set.
Click to expand...


Does the xe1 have a viewfinder and hot shoe flash? Those are my two biggest "must haves". 

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk


----------



## IronMaskDuval

pixmedic said:


> IronMaskDuval said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jaomul said:
> 
> 
> 
> @pixmedic What did you end up with?
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't decided yet...still looking at options. It's maddening.
> I'm looking at a Samsung nx30 as a possibility. Lens selection aside....I won't need much in the way of lenses anyway.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't know of if you saw my post, but I bought a Fuji xe1 for $180 the other day. I love it. A lot. Paired with the nice 2.8 kit zoom, you'll be pretty set.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Does the xe1 have a viewfinder and hot shoe flash? Those are my two biggest "must haves".
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Yes sir! The viewfinder is great. Not as good as a7 but better than em5


----------



## pixmedic

IronMaskDuval said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IronMaskDuval said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jaomul said:
> 
> 
> 
> @pixmedic What did you end up with?
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't decided yet...still looking at options. It's maddening.
> I'm looking at a Samsung nx30 as a possibility. Lens selection aside....I won't need much in the way of lenses anyway.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't know of if you saw my post, but I bought a Fuji xe1 for $180 the other day. I love it. A lot. Paired with the nice 2.8 kit zoom, you'll be pretty set.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Does the xe1 have a viewfinder and hot shoe flash? Those are my two biggest "must haves".
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes sir! The viewfinder is great. Not as good as a7 but better than em5
Click to expand...

I'll have to take a look at that as an option then!

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk


----------



## pixmedic

Actually,  the x-e2 is looking pretty good.

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk


----------



## Gary A.

I have an X-E2.  I've used it a few times 'on assignment' and performance wise, it pretty much kept up with my XT1. Same sensor as the XP1 and the XT1.  The XE1 has a CCD sensor, many photogs swear to its IQ.  There is a new firmware updates for the XE2 and XT1 which just came out a week ago.


----------



## pixmedic

Gary A. said:


> I have an X-E2.  I've used it a few times 'on assignment' and performance wise, it pretty much kept up with my XT1. Same sensor as the XP1 and the XT1.  The XE1 has a CCD sensor, many photogs swear to its IQ.  There is a new firmware updates for the XE2 and XT1 which just came out a week ago.


I'm really trying to keep to a reasonably cheap budget. I want to balance the fact that I will rarely use the camera, with wanting something with good features. 
An xe1 or xe2 would be good budget wise. I'm also looking at the Samsung nx20. 
I think my problem is...I don't NEED a particularly great camera,  but I WANT one. 

In all honesty,  what all I really "need" is a camera I can still do the occasional portrait with using my OCF (manual of course with my existing yongnuo flashes and triggers) 
So...hot shoe flash is a necessity. I really do want a viewfinder because I hate using live view outdoors. (It's annoying on my nikon 1) EVF is fine for me. 

Most of the fancy stuff I like about the higher end cameras is just gravy.
It's haven't decided on an exact budget yet. I still need to get a second embroidery machine for the wife and that will really determine how much is left for a camera. 

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk


----------



## IronMaskDuval

pixmedic said:


> Gary A. said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have an X-E2.  I've used it a few times 'on assignment' and performance wise, it pretty much kept up with my XT1. Same sensor as the XP1 and the XT1.  The XE1 has a CCD sensor, many photogs swear to its IQ.  There is a new firmware updates for the XE2 and XT1 which just came out a week ago.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really trying to keep to a reasonably cheap budget. I want to balance the fact that I will rarely use the camera, with wanting something with good features.
> An xe1 or xe2 would be good budget wise. I'm also looking at the Samsung nx20.
> I think my problem is...I don't NEED a particularly great camera,  but I WANT one.
> 
> In all honesty,  what all I really "need" is a camera I can still do the occasional portrait with using my OCF (manual of course with my existing yongnuo flashes and triggers)
> So...hot shoe flash is a necessity. I really do want a viewfinder because I hate using live view outdoors. (It's annoying on my nikon 1) EVF is fine for me.
> 
> Most of the fancy stuff I like about the higher end cameras is just gravy.
> It's haven't decided on an exact budget yet. I still need to get a second embroidery machine for the wife and that will really determine how much is left for a camera.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


I know one of the major differences between the XE1 and the XE2 is that the evf in XE1 lags until you hold the shutter down half way in AF mode. It's not present in MF mode, so when you're in AF mode, you have to constantly hold the shutter half way down to get rid of the lag. They did away with that in the XE2. It's not an issue if you don't mind holding it or shooting manual focus.

I think Fuji is a great platform for what you're looking for, because you can get GREAT, not good,  performance and IQ at very little cost in the used market. You may have passed by this thread earlier, but this was shot with the XE1.

I went birding

and here's a portrait that I pped a bit. You can't beat performance like this for a total of $300. Nope. No way.


----------



## pixmedic

Does the xe1 have focus peaking?  I think I read the xe2 does. If so, having never used a camera with focus peaking,  how is it?  Does it make manual focus lenses more feasible? I wouldn't mind picking up some old lenses just for portrait usage. 

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk


----------



## pixmedic

so... I have  been researching a lot of cameras lately.  The weight that has been lifted by getting out of photography as a business and going back to just as a hobby has been overshadowed lately by the sheer terror of having to find a replacement system. 
my criteria were simple, yet the selection process turned out to be less so. 
knowing how little the camera will get used, I wanted to keep things inexpensive. the occasional portrait will keep me entertained enough, giving a necessity for the camera to have a viewfinder and hot shoe flash. 

while i would have loved a sony full frame, i don't think i can bring myself to spend the money right now. I just don't see us getting enough use out of it. 
I think I have finally narrowed my choices down to two. 
a samsung nx30 and a fuji e-x2. 
both cameras came out early 2014, so they arent too terribly old. 
the fuji x-e2 is more expensive than the nx30. the x-e1 matches the nx30's price, but spec wise the nx30 is nicer. 
fuji has a better lens selection, but the nx30 looks really good on paper for the money. 

*sigh*
i think i will probably make the purchase this weekend or next week, depending on how work goes. 

anyone have any thoughts on the samsung line? i never hear it mentioned. it looks good on paper, and the nx30 with kit lens is pretty cheap on ebay. im surprised its never mentioned as an affordable alternative to the sony and fuji MILC's.


----------



## IronMaskDuval

pixmedic said:


> so... I have  been researching a lot of cameras lately.  The weight that has been lifted by getting out of photography as a business and going back to just as a hobby has been overshadowed lately by the sheer terror of having to find a replacement system.
> my criteria were simple, yet the selection process turned out to be less so.
> knowing how little the camera will get used, I wanted to keep things inexpensive. the occasional portrait will keep me entertained enough, giving a necessity for the camera to have a viewfinder and hot shoe flash.
> 
> while i would have loved a sony full frame, i don't think i can bring myself to spend the money right now. I just don't see us getting enough use out of it.
> I think I have finally narrowed my choices down to two.
> a samsung nx30 and a fuji e-x2.
> both cameras came out early 2014, so they arent too terribly old.
> the fuji x-e2 is more expensive than the nx30. the x-e1 matches the nx30's price, but spec wise the nx30 is nicer.
> fuji has a better lens selection, but the nx30 looks really good on paper for the money.
> 
> *sigh*
> i think i will probably make the purchase this weekend or next week, depending on how work goes.
> 
> anyone have any thoughts on the samsung line? i never hear it mentioned. it looks good on paper, and the nx30 with kit lens is pretty cheap on ebay. im surprised its never mentioned as an affordable alternative to the sony and fuji MILC's.


.

Samsung makes cameras? I suggest you really consider the xe1 over the 2. The $400 savings on used will buy you a nice zoom or prime lens. There are not shortfalls that I see in the xe1. How can you get a better camera for $180?


----------



## cherylynne1

I don't think I've ever even seen any of the Samsung cameras. DPReview has a Samsung forum, though, you could ask there if you want first hand experience.


----------



## pixmedic

IronMaskDuval said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> 
> so... I have  been researching a lot of cameras lately.  The weight that has been lifted by getting out of photography as a business and going back to just as a hobby has been overshadowed lately by the sheer terror of having to find a replacement system.
> my criteria were simple, yet the selection process turned out to be less so.
> knowing how little the camera will get used, I wanted to keep things inexpensive. the occasional portrait will keep me entertained enough, giving a necessity for the camera to have a viewfinder and hot shoe flash.
> 
> while i would have loved a sony full frame, i don't think i can bring myself to spend the money right now. I just don't see us getting enough use out of it.
> I think I have finally narrowed my choices down to two.
> a samsung nx30 and a fuji e-x2.
> both cameras came out early 2014, so they arent too terribly old.
> the fuji x-e2 is more expensive than the nx30. the x-e1 matches the nx30's price, but spec wise the nx30 is nicer.
> fuji has a better lens selection, but the nx30 looks really good on paper for the money.
> 
> *sigh*
> i think i will probably make the purchase this weekend or next week, depending on how work goes.
> 
> anyone have any thoughts on the samsung line? i never hear it mentioned. it looks good on paper, and the nx30 with kit lens is pretty cheap on ebay. im surprised its never mentioned as an affordable alternative to the sony and fuji MILC's.
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Samsung makes cameras? I suggest you really consider the xe1 over the 2. The $400 savings on used will buy you a nice zoom or prime lens. There are not shortfalls that I see in the xe1. How can you get a better camera for $180?
Click to expand...


yea, samsung does indeed make cameras. we had a samsung P&S that was great. the WB150.
if you have not looked at the samsung NX line of mirrorless cameras, you should.
the newest NX1 was just released last year and looks pretty impressive.

ive been looking at some X-e2's with the 18-55 f2.8-4 lens for <$800


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## jaomul

A lot of talk of samsung stopping making them. To be honest that nx1 looks amazing, its baby brother looks amazing. But gear is more about lenses than cameras, and accessories are important to. You may think you will buy a set up now and you'll never buy anything new, but you will probably always have your eye on equipment and even though you might not buy to much, it will be nice to have the option.

This was a good thread because if anything it shows that there are so many good options out there. There are very few bad ILC cameras you could buy. One could nearly throw the brand names in a hat and pick one and chances are it would satisfy most peoples main requirements.

I would recommend though to go with a stable brand. Any company can go out of business or stop making things, but why go with one that there is doubt about. If it were me, outside of particular brands I'd go with mainstream established maker that gave me confidence in its purchase, the possibility of expanding a little on equipment if required, and possibly the chance of improvements going fwd via firmware updates etc


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## pixmedic

so....despite the Samsung being significantly cheaper, I think I am back  to favoring fuji as my top choice. 
now I am debating between the x-e2 and the x-t10. the x-t10 does seem to be slightly more expensive, but i have run across some similarly priced deals making it really close to the x-e2. 
ive spent the morning googling comparisons between the two, and while the x-t10 is a much newer camera, it seems that a lot of people still favor the x-e2 over it, citing firmware updates closing the AF gap that was originally making the x-t10 much better.


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## astroNikon

pixmedic said:


> I'm really trying to keep to a reasonably cheap budget. I want to balance the fact that I will rarely use the camera, with wanting something with good features.
> An xe1 or xe2 would be good budget wise. I'm also looking at the Samsung nx20.
> I think my problem is...I don't NEED a particularly great camera,  but I WANT one.
> 
> In all honesty,  what all I really "need" is a camera I can still do the occasional portrait with using my OCF (manual of course with my existing yongnuo flashes and triggers)
> So...hot shoe flash is a necessity. I really do want a viewfinder because I hate using live view outdoors. (It's annoying on my nikon 1) EVF is fine for me.
> 
> Most of the fancy stuff I like about the higher end cameras is just gravy.
> It's haven't decided on an exact budget yet. I still need to get a second embroidery machine for the wife and that will really determine how much is left for a camera.


You're being totally unrealistic Jason.  You know everyone is going to say get the BEST Zeiss / Leica / Cooke lens.  Start here and don't look back => The Top 5 Most Expensive Camera Lenses Ever

Of course, for my pocket mirrorless I bought a Nikon P7800.  I can use my flashes, remote triggers, etc with it with some limitations.  Though being a small sensor it of course isn't a Full Frame when it comes to low light. IQ is okay once you understand it's limitations and how to operate it.


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## DarkShadow

The X-T10 is a sweet camera, thats one I would getIn the retro silver tone if I went mirrorless and from I understand Fuji has one if not the best jpegs engines even if you prefer raw I think you can pretty much count on great jpegs colors from fuji if you decided to shoot that way.One thing I always hear from people quite often how good fuji color is especially how good they render skin tones. I meet a few people with different types of fuji systems and they seem to really love them and the glass thats available.  I really like that fuji is not caught up in the pixel jamming  sensor race and concentrate on improving what they already have that works.JMO.


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## IronMaskDuval

One thing is for sure, Fuji is hands down the best customer service company as far as cameras go. Even the xe1 still gets updates. They're the only company that makes their customers feel good about their purchase even if a new model is on the horizon. If Fuji made a full frame, all of my bodies would be Fuji. The styling is on point. Usability has a fun factor to it and makes sense. Great ergo. Great IQ for what they make.


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## gsgary

I've got a Samsung phone and that pisses me off but would never buy a camera

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk


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## beagle100

gsgary said:


> I've got a Samsung phone and that pisses me off but would never buy a camera



   I also have a samsung cell phone
www.flickr.com/photos/mmirrorless


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## pixmedic

Looks like its going to be a Fuji X-E2. 
ill be picking up the 18-55 f/2.8-4 kit lens for it as well.


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## IronMaskDuval

pixmedic said:


> Looks like its going to be a Fuji X-E2.
> ill be picking up the 18-55 f/2.8-4 kit lens for it as well.



Grats! Welcome to the milf club.


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## cherylynne1

We really ought to combine the milf/milc/mwac clubs for the ultimate MILFWAMILC club. 

We'd all just go out and take pictures of ourselves taking pictures (and looking sexy while doing it) and then post it all over Instagram. 

It would be AWESOME.


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## PropilotBW

Welcome to the mirrorless club!


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## pixmedic

PropilotBW said:


> Welcome to the mirrorless club!


Thanks! Can't wait to start shooting with it 

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk


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## xenskhe

Xe2 and the kit zoom well chosen. I read page 1 of this thread a week or two ago, and did hope you wouldn't opt for m43. I ditched m43 because the of the 2xdof using legacy lenses and the difficulty of wide super-wide options as well. The x-trans are challenging the whole dx/fx equation.


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## pixmedic

xenskhe said:


> Xe2 and the kit zoom well chosen. I read page 1 of this thread a week or two ago, and did hope you wouldn't opt for m43. I ditched m43 because the of the 2xdof using legacy lenses and the difficulty of wide super-wide options as well. The x-trans are challenging the whole dx/fx equation.


I had considered m4/3, but I had an oly e-pl5 2 years ago and wasn't really impressed. It was however, not exactly a top end body. I probably would have looked at the e-m5, which was within budget..maybe even an e-m1. 

My biggest issue with the m4/3 was the poor low light performance.  While I couldn't budget in a Sony a7 like I had originally wanted,  I felt the fuji DX system was the next best thing. 

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk


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## xenskhe

I hope you don't get the Voightlaender/M-Rokkor/Leica crack-addiction. It comes out of nowhere! Avoid caffeine-fueled late night ebay!! )


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## gsgary

There are some wonderful Voigtlander lenses

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk


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## xenskhe

gsgary said:


> There are some wonderful Voigtlander lenses
> 
> Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk



I got 60s V in DKL and CVs in M. Wish I bought the VMs in LTM, then could have easily got a Bessar L to use them on as well. So I'll have to gradually save up for a T


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## IronMaskDuval

Say goodbye to your weekends because they'll be spent at estate sales and antique stores.


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## decyjohn

A *mirrorless* interchangeable lens camera (MILC, commonly referred to simply as a "*mirrorless* camera"), is a camera with an interchangeable lens that does not have a mirror reflex optical viewfinder.


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## jaomul

decyjohn said:


> A *mirrorless* interchangeable lens camera (MILC, commonly referred to simply as a "*mirrorless* camera"), is a camera with an interchangeable lens that does not have a mirror reflex optical viewfinder.



Thanks for clearing that up for all here. Most of us thought they were some kind of beauty device


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## pixmedic

IronMaskDuval said:


> Say goodbye to your weekends because they'll be spent at estate sales and antique stores.


Now i wish I had kept my Konica 57mm f1.2

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk


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## DarkShadow

Congrats on the new Fuji.


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## pixmedic

I have officially joined the mirrorless family. (It's the only type of cameras I have now)







Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk


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## DarkShadow

Even the Box is Sexy.


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## astroNikon

pixmedic said:


> I have officially joined the mirrorless family. (It's the only type of cameras I have now)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk


GREAT !!

Now we can all start debating why you should have bought something else !!


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## pixmedic

OK so, I fully realize that I have _*not*_ had this camera long enough to write any sort of review..._*however*_, I will say that in just an hour or so of fiddling, I now understand why people are switching from DSLR's to mirrorless. (assuming you dont need the better AF for sports or wildlife of course)

camera/lens combo was smaller and lighter than I expected.
button placement isn't perfect, and it has a few less physical controls than my DSLR's (I always had dual command wheels) but it has enough that you can set things up to comfortably shoot in manual.
Also, EVF. why do some people seem to dislike this feature? or is it just the newer ones that are "good"?
I think its great. I can "_*see*_" the exposure as i make adjustments. (omg, would have _*loved*_ that feature shooting weddings)

the OIS on the "kit" lens works well. i can shoot handheld at 1/30th without motion blur, which I personally could _*not *_do on my DSLR's.
i never took the DSLR's out except when shooting for clients. too big, too bulky, and i hated carrying them around.
_*this*_ I think will actually get used more, which I feel makes it a better camera for us.
maybe I will finally find the motivation to shoot for me, instead of just for other people.


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## pixmedic

astroNikon said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have officially joined the mirrorless family. (It's the only type of cameras I have now)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> GREAT !!
> 
> Now we can all start debating why you should have bought something else !!
Click to expand...


isn't that how it always goes?

a forum member who is upgrading to an x-pro2? (If i remember correctly?) messaged me with an offer on this I couldn't refuse. 
I wont name them unless they decide its OK, but regardless of whether they decide to remain anonymous or not, I am extremely grateful for what they have done for me and the wife. 
plus, the x-e2 was one of my top choices anyway, so it worked out pretty well.


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## astroNikon

pixmedic said:


> OK so, I fully realize that I have _*not*_ had this camera long enough to write any sort of review..._*however*_, I will say that in just an hour or so of fiddling, I now understand why people are switching from DSLR's to mirrorless. (assuming you dont need the better AF for sports or wildlife of course)
> 
> camera/lens combo was smaller and lighter than I expected.
> button placement isn't perfect, and it has a few less physical controls than my DSLR's (I always had dual command wheels) but it has enough that you can set things up to comfortably shoot in manual.
> Also, EVF. why do some people seem to dislike this feature? or is it just the newer ones that are "good"?
> I think its great. I can "_*see*_" the exposure as i make adjustments. (omg, would have _*loved*_ that feature shooting weddings)
> 
> the OIS on the "kit" lens works well. i can shoot handheld at 1/30th without motion blur, which I personally could _*not *_do on my DSLR's.
> i never took the DSLR's out except when shooting for clients. too big, too bulky, and i hated carrying them around.
> _*this*_ I think will actually get used more, which I feel makes it a better camera for us.
> maybe I will finally find the motivation to shoot for me, instead of just for other people.


I have a piddly P7800 which actually has dual control dials. 
but the mini EVF shows your exposure to a point.  Love that .. though it lags.  So no good for things moving like sports, etc.
But I've tried a A6000 (I think) with some big lens a parent was trying to use for soccer.  Nice camera just not for sports or they didn't know how to use it.  They were in Auto anyways.
Braineack likes his A6000 too.


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## xenskhe

I like using Silkpix Converter SE that comes with the Fujifilm and Lumix cameras.


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## cherylynne1

I totally agree about the EVF. I think it's so incredibly useful for beginners learning to shoot in manual. If I had to switch to DSLRs for sone reason, the OVF would be the hardest adjustment for me. 

I'm so glad you found something you're happy with!


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## IronMaskDuval

I have no problem shooting action with manual focus.  And to answer your question, old evfs were turds. The em5 happens to have one of those "old" evfs where had you used the em10 first, you'd hate the em5.


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## pixmedic

the ISO performance on this camera is pretty good. 
3200 ISO 1/30 shutter speed. (probably too slow SS really, but i was just testing)
 shot in raw. cropped only. _*no *_other adjustments made.  (LR CC)


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## beagle100

pixmedic said:


> the ISO performance on this camera is pretty good.
> 3200 ISO 1/30 shutter speed. (probably too slow SS really, but i was just testing)
> shot in raw. cropped only. _*no *_other adjustments made. ]



yes, 1/30 is probably too slow
welcome to the mirrorless club
www.flickr.com/photos/mmirrorless


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## pixmedic

beagle100 said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> 
> the ISO performance on this camera is pretty good.
> 3200 ISO 1/30 shutter speed. (probably too slow SS really, but i was just testing)
> shot in raw. cropped only. _*no *_other adjustments made. ]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yes, 1/30 is probably too slow
> welcome to the mirrorless club
> www.flickr.com/photos/mmirrorless
Click to expand...

Shutter speed aside, I was actually impressed with the noise at ISO 3200.
It would not take much noise reduction in Lightroom to clean it up. 

The file size is what puzzled me. 
16mp sensor and the raw files  (raf) were 32mp each! My d600 with a 24mp sensor only kicked out 25mp raw files.
Why is a 16mp sensor making 32mp files?  Is that normal for fuji cameras?
My poor cheap computer sure was crying...and I was too waiting for LR to load files. 

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk


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## Gary A.

On the XT1, I'm running on average about 33.5mb on the RAW files which boils down to anywhere from 6mb to 8mb on the final JPEG (per Aperture). (Same sensor as the XE2, probably slightly different processing.)


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## pixmedic

Gary A. said:


> On the XT1, I'm running on average about 33.5mb on the RAW files which boils down to anywhere from 6mb to 8mb on the final JPEG (per Aperture). (Same sensor as the XE2, probably slightly different processing.)


Guess it's normal then. 
It's not a bad thing, I was just surprised.
I couldn't check the jpeg size because i set max file size output in LR to 3mp since I was uploading the ferret pic to the forum. When I'm off shift tomorrow I'll take the camera with me when we go to the antique fair and get a few practice shots in.

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk


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## Gary A.

Welcome back to photography.


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## xenskhe

The 16bit tif files exported by the bundled Converter are about 90mb.


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## xenskhe

pixmedic said:


> Why is a 16mp sensor making 32mp files?  Is that normal for fuji cameras?



Maybe that the X-trans array is more random than a conventional Bayer?
The S2/S3 RAFs were big too, from the previous Super CCD sensor.


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## pixmedic

xenskhe said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is a 16mp sensor making 32mp files?  Is that normal for fuji cameras?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe that the X-trans array is more random than a conventional Bayer?
> The S2/S3 RAFs were big too, from the previous Super CCD sensor.
Click to expand...

I really have no idea. It makes a nice picture though 

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk


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## Derrel

decyjohn said:


> A *mirrorless* interchangeable lens camera (MILC, commonly referred to simply as a "*mirrorless* camera"), is a camera with an interchangeable lens that does not have a mirror reflex optical viewfinder.



A *M*irrorless *I*nterchangeable *L*ens *F*uji, referred to as a *MILF*....   lol....but no, seriously, those interchangeable lens Fuji's are very,very MILF-y....


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## beagle100

Derrel said:


> decyjohn said:
> 
> 
> 
> A *mirrorless* interchangeable lens camera (MILC, commonly referred to simply as a "*mirrorless* camera"), is a camera with an interchangeable lens that does not have a mirror reflex optical viewfinder.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A *M*irrorless *I*nterchangeable *L*ens *F*uji, referred to as a *MILF*....   lol....but no, seriously, those interchangeable lens Fuji's are very,very MILF-y....
Click to expand...


right, I use MILC  (MILK)
www.flickr.com/photos/mmirrorless


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