# Stage photography - Post 2



## oskiper (Mar 1, 2016)

Hi everyone!

I´m writing this post as I need feedback to improve my stage photography skills given the gear I have, let me paste what I said on my first post:

"I`m getting started at stage photography in Buenos Aires covering theatre plays for a friend`s art review site.

As these are my very begginings I`m on a really tight budget so please bare in mind my gear when you see my photos. One of the problems I had to solve is the lightning issue, as you may know, stage photography has a very low light condition which get even worse if you have in mind I only have an old Canon 1100D with a 18-55 and a 50-250 lenses EFS lenses.

Therefore, I'm forced to work under high ISO sensibility (6400 ISO most of the times). Please feel free to look at my photos and provide feedback. You can be as mean as you want as I only want to improve so I won´t mind 

You'll notice a lot of space in some of my photos as the plays producers asks me to provide some space for text so they can use my photos for online flyers."




 

These are some of my first stage photos:


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## xenskhe (Mar 1, 2016)

oskiper said:


> You'll notice a lot of space in some of my photos as the plays producers asks me to provide some space for text so they can use my photos for online flyers."



Well the I think 3 and 4 work quite well and 4 is the better one. And 5 is a good promo type picture. 5 and 4 are the better pictures imo.


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## xenskhe (Mar 1, 2016)

The sepia rendering of 1 is rather oddball and doesn't go with the others. I like the candid moment in 2 a lot but the framing is awkward. 6 is framed maybe a bit too tight and the picture is a little dark. The figure in 6 could be dodged to give him more emphasis and some contrast.


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## oskiper (Mar 1, 2016)

xenskhe said:


> oskiper said:
> 
> 
> > You'll notice a lot of space in some of my photos as the plays producers asks me to provide some space for text so they can use my photos for online flyers."
> ...



If by number 5 you mean the b&w one with the father and his daughter, that´s a shot from a version of "My name is Sam", the film from Sean Penn, a great theatre play. It didn{t work out for the producer tho... He preferred to go with another picture from a colleage. Picture number four (couple with the baby) is form the play called "Compaññero del alma" (soul mate). just loved that play, I took over 200 pictures that night LOL. Thanks for your feedback!


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## oskiper (Mar 1, 2016)

xenskhe said:


> The sepia rendering of 1 is rather oddball and doesn't go with the others. I like the candid moment in 2 a lot but the framing is awkward. 6 is framed maybe a bit too tight and the picture is a little dark. The figure in 6 could be dodged to give him more emphasis and some contrast.



NOOOOW I´m getting some of the feedback I was looking for. THANKS!. I{m not familiar with sepia, I was playing with it to see what happened. Is from a separate session, How would you improve that one? The framing on picture 2 was an advice from a friend, you say I shouldn´t use that? With number 6 I had some issues due to a veeeery low lightning, increasing expo on PS created a lot of noise and i didn't want to lose that as I believe it was a good image to summarize the meaning of the play. I{ll try to re-edit it to see whta happens. Thanks again!


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## xenskhe (Mar 1, 2016)

oskiper said:


> If by number 5 you mean the b&w one with the father and his daughter, that´s a shot from a version of "My name is Sam", the film from Sean Penn, a great theatre play.



It's beautifully lit. 

My thoughts on the selects are that it's helpful to see these as pictures can be framed in-camera too tightly, instead of cropping later. With resolution at a premium in budget or older cameras. Do you know FastStone Image Viewer? it has a capability to upsize 8mp-12mp 200% into the 35mp-50mp range quickly, using Mitchell resampling. This is plenty to work with. (Mitchell upsize, Lanczos3 downsize).


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## oskiper (Mar 1, 2016)

xenskhe said:


> oskiper said:
> 
> 
> > If by number 5 you mean the b&w one with the father and his daughter, that´s a shot from a version of "My name is Sam", the film from Sean Penn, a great theatre play.
> ...



Ummm, I don't have an idea of what you're taling about mate lol... Do you have a link to get more info on that?


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## xenskhe (Mar 1, 2016)

oskiper said:


> The framing on picture 2 was an advice from a friend, you say I shouldn´t use that?



Maybe if it cropped to exclude the woman on the left and you cloned out the salon illuminated sign. It's dramatic, it's got energy. If 2,4,5 were the all same format and color balanced in the same way, it could a good inclusion. Not sure it communicates enough on its own.


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## xenskhe (Mar 1, 2016)

oskiper said:


> Ummm, I don't have an idea of what you're taling about mate lol... Do you have a link to get more info on that?



More information on their website
FastStone Image Viewer - Powerful and Intuitive Photo Viewer, Editor and Batch Converter


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## xenskhe (Mar 1, 2016)

oskiper said:


> With number 6 I had some issues due to a veeeery low lightning,



Could you use a monopod?


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## oskiper (Mar 1, 2016)

I use Photoshop and Lightroom, just that lol


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## oskiper (Mar 1, 2016)

xenskhe said:


> oskiper said:
> 
> 
> > With number 6 I had some issues due to a veeeery low lightning,
> ...



Not a chance, I have to be almost invisible... No flash, no noise, no tripods or monopods... I even have to use a home made sound blimp out of a piece of cloth lol


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## oskiper (Mar 1, 2016)

xenskhe said:


> oskiper said:
> 
> 
> > If by number 5 you mean the b&w one with the father and his daughter, that´s a shot from a version of "My name is Sam", the film from Sean Penn, a great theatre play.
> ...




Just to get you into perspective... both actors ans audience don't want me there... The beautifull sound of my shutter is awful for them... So I have to go ninja on their asses using a home-made sound blimp made out of a piece of cloth, I can´t move or take many pictures... Just around 30 per play so I can get 15 final photos.. It's a rough environment.


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## xenskhe (Mar 1, 2016)

oskiper said:


> Just to get you into perspective... both actors ans audience don't want me there... The beautifull sound of my shutter is awful for them... So I have to go ninja on their asses using a home-made sound blimp made out of a piece of cloth, I can´t move or take many pictures... Just around 30 per play so I can get 15 final photos.. It's a rough environment.



Who requests your services then? or is it a self-assignment? You need a digital camera with an electronic shutter.


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## oskiper (Mar 1, 2016)

xenskhe said:


> oskiper said:
> 
> 
> > The framing on picture 2 was an advice from a friend, you say I shouldn´t use that?
> ...




Something like this?


xenskhe said:


> oskiper said:
> 
> 
> > Just to get you into perspective... both actors ans audience don't want me there... The beautifull sound of my shutter is awful for them... So I have to go ninja on their asses using a home-made sound blimp made out of a piece of cloth, I can´t move or take many pictures... Just around 30 per play so I can get 15 final photos.. It's a rough environment.
> ...




The press agents are the ones who hire us... This year we are starting to receive calls from directors and actors because they´ve seen our work. But it stil represents only the 40% of the cases (we´re currently covering around 7 plays a week)

Can you recommend a camera with an electronic shutter? A friend once lend me his 6D, I had no problems that time becaouse it´s very quiet. My 1100D instead sounds like a huge guillotine in the middle of the room.


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## calamityjane (Mar 1, 2016)

I understand how hard it is when you're starting out in performing arts photography, as that is where I was 8 years ago. However, you mention a few things that make me nervous. You say the audience doesn't want you there. Of course they don't, and neither does the performer, if there's an audience in, which is why professional arts photographers largely do their work during times when there is no audience - during a tech or dress run or during a press photocall, which has been set up specifically to get the images required by the PR/press/company to accompany reviews/used for marketing. If you are being hired, as you say, by a 'press agent', then suggest to them that a separate shoot is the best way forward. I'm not sure where in the world you are, and my experience is of the UK only, so do feel free to ask me questions as to how it works here. It's what I do for a living.


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## calamityjane (Mar 1, 2016)

p.s. I completely forgot to say that I wasn't going to critique your images as they are not really production shots. Go back to basics and think what you are trying to convey about the production in any image. (As you are unlikely to see the production before the shoot, this needs to happen during the edit). Remember that, most of the time, only one image from a set of hundreds will be used to accompany a review or be on a poster. That one shot needs to tell the potential audience enough, but also to intrigue, to tempt them to either read more or buy a ticket. Tell the story! Best of luck.


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## oskiper (Mar 1, 2016)

calamityjane said:


> I understand how hard it is when you're starting out in performing arts photography, as that is where I was 8 years ago. However, you mention a few things that make me nervous. You say the audience doesn't want you there. Of course they don't, and neither does the performer, if there's an audience in, which is why professional arts photographers largely do their work during times when there is no audience - during a tech or dress run or during a press photocall, which has been set up specifically to get the images required by the PR/press/company to accompany reviews/used for marketing. If you are being hired, as you say, by a 'press agent', then suggest to them that a separate shoot is the best way forward. I'm not sure where in the world you are, and my experience is of the UK only, so do feel free to ask me questions as to how it works here. It's what I do for a living.



I´m currently working for a site that does play critics (I don't know if that's the correct term for it. I'm from Argentina so english is not my first language) This site started in September last year, so just now I`m starting to get invited to press releases, I ´m used to go to normal shows and just shoot some pictures for the site I'm working for. Maybe that gives you a heads up on my current situation


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## calamityjane (Mar 1, 2016)

Just looked up your camera - not being a Canon user, I didn't realise what problems you'd be having with it. It's an old, entry-level camera and you are using a kit lens. I realise that camera gear is expensive but you really do need the right tools for the job. As a budget option, may I suggest you buy a second hand 50mm f1.8? It'll help out in low light and will be great quality at a low price point. Back in the day, SLRs used to be sold with a 50mm as the standard ('kit') lens - I wish they still did! Also just reread your original post - Buenos Aires must be wonderful for the arts! All that dance! (I just shot a Tango show yesterday, in London -  Immortal Tango, Peacock Theatre, London, Britain - 29 month 2016 | Jane Hobson | 07798 794205 | jane@janehobson.com )


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## calamityjane (Mar 1, 2016)

oskiper said:


> calamityjane said:
> 
> 
> > I understand how hard it is when you're starting out in performing arts photography, as that is where I was 8 years ago. However, you mention a few things that make me nervous. You say the audience doesn't want you there. Of course they don't, and neither does the performer, if there's an audience in, which is why professional arts photographers largely do their work during times when there is no audience - during a tech or dress run or during a press photocall, which has been set up specifically to get the images required by the PR/press/company to accompany reviews/used for marketing. If you are being hired, as you say, by a 'press agent', then suggest to them that a separate shoot is the best way forward. I'm not sure where in the world you are, and my experience is of the UK only, so do feel free to ask me questions as to how it works here. It's what I do for a living.
> ...


Could you suggest you attend the dress rehearsal of the show? Maybe get the site you are working for to request it on your behalf?


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## xenskhe (Mar 1, 2016)

oskiper said:


> I´m currently working for a site that does play critics (I don't know if that's the correct term for it. I'm from Argentina so english is not my first language)



Theater reviews/theatre reviews.


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## xenskhe (Mar 1, 2016)

oskiper said:


> Can you recommend a camera with an electronic shutter?


 I was looking at Olympus and Panasonic M4/3 cameras but only the most recent have it, and not at slower s/speeds, so too pricey even for a used one i assume. There are old cameras like the Oly C8080 which are silent, with good optics and color but the iso performance wouldn't cut it. The 6D was ok?


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## oskiper (Mar 1, 2016)

calamityjane said:


> Just looked up your camera - not being a Canon user, I didn't realise what problems you'd be having with it. It's an old, entry-level camera and you are using a kit lens. I realise that camera gear is expensive but you really do need the right tools for the job. As a budget option, may I suggest you buy a second hand 50mm f1.8? It'll help out in low light and will be great quality at a low price point. Back in the day, SLRs used to be sold with a 50mm as the standard ('kit') lens - I wish they still did! Also just reread your original post - Buenos Aires must be wonderful for the arts! All that dance! (I just shot a Tango show yesterday, in London -  Immortal Tango, Peacock Theatre, London, Britain - 29 month 2016 | Jane Hobson | 07798 794205 | jane@janehobson.com )




Yeap, actually the 1100D is as basic as it gets. The only thing I have apart from the kit lens is a 55-250 macro zoom lens af 4-5.6... A 50 mm 1.8 could be good but I would never get the close-ups I currently get.

Have in mind I´m just getting started. Actually I bought my camera by June last year and started learning photography by mid September so It´s quite soon to change my camera as it´s my very first DSLR and I´ve used it just for 6 months now. I haven´t even finished my basic training!

Anyway, I´m planning to go for a 6D by the end of the year... Buenos Aires is an awesome city for arts... Imagine that I cover from 6 to 7 plays a week, I´m booked until April and I only cover a small part of the theatrical movement here


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## oskiper (Mar 1, 2016)

calamityjane said:


> Buenos Aires must be wonderful for the arts! All that dance! (I just shot a Tango show yesterday, in London -  Immortal Tango, Peacock Theatre, London, Britain - 29 month 2016 | Jane Hobson | 07798 794205 | jane@janehobson.com )



just looked at your site... AWESOME PHOTOS!!! I love your work! You need to come here ASAP, I go to tango "milongas" every wednesday, you`d be amazed!


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## oskiper (Mar 1, 2016)

xenskhe said:


> oskiper said:
> 
> 
> > Can you recommend a camera with an electronic shutter?
> ...



I looked at a Sony a7 Mkii... I didn´t like how it performed under high ISO... Awesome camera anyway.

Canon 6D and Nikon D7500 are a GO! both have this quite shutter function I need and they work great under 12800 ISO, a dream come true to me... I´ve been in this world of photography for only 6 months but I`m saving my bucks for a 6D and a couple of lenses by the end of the year, this is a photo I took in November for a Gospel show in Buenos Aires when a friend lend me his 6D.


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## oskiper (Mar 1, 2016)

I don`t know why i cannot upload the photo, here´s the link to it in my Flickr account

gospel-en-buenos-aires


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## oskiper (Mar 1, 2016)

calamityjane said:


> Could you suggest you attend the dress rehearsal of the show? Maybe get the site you are working for to request it on your behalf?



i`m starting to suggest that and in some cases I`m getting it, tomorrow is my first press release show.

The hard part is that it´s impossible to cover all the plays at that instance, as I told you earlier, There are too many plays here (I´m covering from 24 up to 28 plays a month and I`m booked until the end of April) and I wouldn´t be able to cover them all at a rehearsal.


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## xenskhe (Mar 1, 2016)

oskiper said:


> I looked at a Sony a7 Mkii... I didn´t like how it performed under high ISO... Awesome camera anyway.
> 
> Canon 6D and Nikon D7500 are a GO! both have this quite shutter function I need and they work great under 12800 ISO, a dream come true to me... I´ve been in this world of photography for only 6 months but I`m saving my bucks for a 6D and a couple of lenses by the end of the year.



That's great.


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## calamityjane (Mar 2, 2016)

oskiper said:


> calamityjane said:
> 
> 
> > Could you suggest you attend the dress rehearsal of the show? Maybe get the site you are working for to request it on your behalf?
> ...


You are going about it completely wrong. The aim is not to cover as many as possible in a slapdash manner, but to do your best work for the client. You are providing a service, not going for a world record. ...


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## xenskhe (Mar 2, 2016)

oskiper, you have a good eye and the heart for this kind of work. Correcting technical approach is comparatively trivial.


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## oskiper (Mar 3, 2016)

calamityjane said:


> You are going about it completely wrong. The aim is not to cover as many as possible in a slapdash manner, but to do your best work for the client. You are providing a service, not going for a world record. I really can't understand how people are actually paying you to do the dreadful work you do, with inadequate equipment and understanding of the business of either photography or theatre. Assuming you ARE booked up until April with paying work, I can only assume that either a/ there are no competent performing arts photographers in Buenos Aires (I doubt it) or b/ that you are undercutting the competition to a point where a professional could not afford to be in business and you will ultimately end up putting yourself and others out of work. My last business help to you is to suggest that you study the work of performing arts professionals and try to learn from them. Good day to you.



"Dreadful" is a little too harsh as you don´t get what I do, don't you think?
My client is not the press agent nor the director or the actors but a Theater critic that cover the plays. Therefore, my service depends on how many plays she attends. I happen to cover "off-commercial" theatre (I don´t know how you guys may call independent theatre) where professional photographers do not like to go due to the fact you don´t get any recognition whatsoever for doing so and, in the case of theatre-hired photographers (which again, is not my case) they only receive the 20% of what they could get in the commercial circuit.

Most of the plays I cover do not have any photos, simply due to lack of budget, so they started to use some of mine without my consent at first. After a while they started to publish the articles from the site I work for in their own space as our site became more known in the niche. In more than half the cases, this critics are the only way some plays have to promote their show. Many of the actors and lightning engineers work pro bono on this.

Getting the needed gear in Argentina is not even REMOTELY as easy as it may be in Europe or North America. Just to give you an idea, a Canon 5d MIII, a 50mm 1.4 and a 24-75mm af2.8 lenses costs as much AS A WHOLE YEAR of an administrative worker's salary (remember I started just seven months ago and I work as an administrative employee myself). You mentioned I could buy a 50mm 1.8, I simply wouldn´t use it due to the approach I have, I shoot mainly close ups (I'm sure you could've noticed that by watching my photos but I guess you didn't as I'm not apparently even close to your level of magnificence)... Anyway, the easiest way to judge or improve is to say "get a better gear"... That does not help me at all. You just went ahead and discarded my work as it`s not "production" work, didn`t even mention any technical thing that could help me get better pictures but the easy way out that it`s to get a better camera. I happen to believe that the camera does not make the photographer and I can still get some decent photos out of my equipment.

It's a real pity that you did not get any information before giving such a harsh comment. Even more without having a clue about what I actually do. These kind of comments discourage me from participating in a forum as it's not why I do this. I love photography and I do my best to improve with what I have. And I wish I can improve and get a proper gear in the near future.

Anyway, I just come here to discuss photos and photography techniques... I guess this just went out of focus.


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## oskiper (Mar 3, 2016)

xenskhe said:


> oskiper, you have a good eye and the heart for this kind of work. Correcting technical approach is comparatively trivial.



Thanks! Any way I see that working on technical flaws I have will give me more tools to get the pictures I´m looking for. I feel I`m yet too far to get pictures that really make me feel happy.


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## xenskhe (Mar 4, 2016)

oskiper said:


> I happen to cover "off-commercial" theatre (I don´t know how you guys may call independent theatre)



'Fringe Theatre'.


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## xenskhe (Mar 4, 2016)

The most talented artist I know works in Fringe Theatre/Musical Theatre.
Excellent vocalist, actor, dancer, musician.


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## Gary A. (Mar 4, 2016)

Shoot the dress rehearsal.  Some example of my theatre snaps are here:

1) Godspell

2) WHS Talent Show

3) WHS Wizard of OZ

4) WHS Talent Show


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## xenskhe (Mar 4, 2016)

The import duties on camera gear looks high in Argentina. (50%?)


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## oskiper (Mar 4, 2016)

xenskhe said:


> The most talented artist I know works in Fringe Theatre/Musical Theatre.
> Excellent vocalist, actor, dancer, musician.



No doubt... There`s a LOT of talent in fringe theatre


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## oskiper (Mar 4, 2016)

xenskhe said:


> The import duties on camera gear looks high in Argentina. (50%?)



Yeap, a 5D MIII is around 4,500 Dollars, that would be around 68.000 Pesos, an Administrative salary goes around 10.000 pesos, so only in the body you hace almost 7 months of your salary


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## oskiper (Mar 4, 2016)

Gary A. said:


> Shoot the dress rehearsal.  Some example of my theatre snaps are here:
> 
> 1) Godspell
> 
> ...



I´m on that path mate, soon I´ll be covering rehearsals, as for now, I go with the critic who hires me and she always go to normal shows so she can see the reaction of the audience.

By the way, you have some AMAZING photos on your site!


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## xenskhe (Mar 5, 2016)

oskiper said:


> Yeap, a 5D MIII is around 4,500 Dollars, that would be around 68.000 Pesos, an Administrative salary goes around 10.000 pesos, so only in the body you hace almost 7 months of your salary



If you bought a used camera body from ebay seller in say the US, Europe or Japan, the import tax is very high?


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## oskiper (Mar 5, 2016)

xenskhe said:


> oskiper said:
> 
> 
> > Yeap, a 5D MIII is around 4,500 Dollars, that would be around 68.000 Pesos, an Administrative salary goes around 10.000 pesos, so only in the body you hace almost 7 months of your salary
> ...



Last president Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner prohibited that kind of importations... Our new president assumed just a couple of months ago and we hope we can import again... But taxes and shipping costs are high, to give you an idea,, we have to calculate 100% more on the final price to bring a camera so a Canon 5D MIII would cost around 3000 american dollars.


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## oskiper (Mar 5, 2016)

Anyway, I'm saving money to buy a Canon 6D and two lenses by June... Finger crossed!


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## calamityjane (Mar 6, 2016)

xenskhe said:


> oskiper, you have a good eye and the heart for this kind of work. Correcting technical approach is comparatively trivial.


He has ...


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## tirediron (Mar 6, 2016)

calamityjane said:


> xenskhe said:
> 
> 
> > oskiper, you have a good eye and the heart for this kind of work. Correcting technical approach is comparatively trivial.
> ...


I must have missed the memo where you were appointed as the sole judge of talent and what constitutes a 'good eye'.  There's nothing wrong with disagreeing or having a contrary point of view, but please voice it in a civil manner.


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