# Tim Page - Leica 21mm



## Tim Page

G'Day,





This is a project that I have been working on in association with Leica. I am editing these down to 21 images - shot with a Leica 21mm lens - for a limited edition box set. If you would like to assist with the edit, please email your feedback to timpageimage@gmail.com

If you would like to order a signed photograph of any of the images here, please email tim@timpageimage.com.au with a general enquiry. Please check timpageimage.com.au for updated information, pricelists and a listing of the composition and location of each of these images.

Cheers,
Tim


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## Hertz van Rental

Is that THE Tim Page?
You won't remember me but we met and talked a few times in the 80's. I was a friend of Mike Jaffe's - if you remember him.


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## Tim Page

G'Day,

This is Shaun Filer, Tim's assistant and general manager. I'll check with Tim to find out if he remembers you. Did you meet him at an exhibition? 
Anyway, in answer to your question - this is Tim Page (or rather, this is a way to correspond with Tim).


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## Hertz van Rental

I first met Tim at Bournemouth College of Art when he came to show his work around 1981.
We bumped into each other a couple of times after that. I think the last time was at an opening night at the Photographer's Gallery.
Jaffe bought the Merc Tim brought back from South America.
I don't expect Tim to remember me, really, but I will give a response to his images as soon as I get a chance. It's just nice to see his work again.
What would help is knowing what the collection is intending to do. The message that the portfolio is trying to convey will determine, to a very large extent, the selection of images.


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## JJP

Woooow! Tim Page is one of my idols in photography, there must be some strange coincidence, my name is Joe Page and I'm also from Tunbridge Wells!


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## Tim Page

I'll talk to Tim and ask if he remembers you from Bournemouth College of Art, and also about a possible family connect back in the UK. Small world.
Cheers,
Shaun


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## Helen B

Tim,

The You Tube video starts with a tacky Leica-fondling commercial intro. I guess that was part of the deal with Leica - as is this whole promotion. I'd like to think that you have become a member of this forum in order to share your knowledge and experience rather than to promote a Leica advert, but that hope is probably unrealistic, and in vain. 

Would you like to share your feelings about the commercial nature of this enterprise? Did you have any reservations about it? What would Judith Williamson say? Why are all our heroes selling out? Why is Jefferson Airplane's _White Rabbit_ being used for a game commercial? What does that tell you? Does nobody care any more?

You don't have to answer all of these questions, except maybe the Jefferson Airplane one.

Best wishes,
Helen


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## Rick Waldroup

Hey, Helen, I've seen the same post by Tim, almost word for word, on two other photo forums.


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## Hertz van Rental

I have no doubt that they are trawling - but I think it's nice that they want input from others on which images should be included. Whatever the commercial motivation, the fact that the effort is being made to get some kind of feedback from the public should count for something and I, for one, welcome it.
Besides, Tim page risked his life in Vietnam to bring us images of the conflict (on one occasion he almost died) so why shouldn't he get something back in return?
I certainly couldn't have done what he did.
And who among us wouldn't 'sell out' given the chance and the offer of money?


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## Helen B

I wonder (ie it's going through my mind without there being any judgements, because I'm curious about such things) whether this is a genuine request for selection by committee or a way of increasing awareness of the portfolio. I wouldn't want to criticize Tim for whatever he chooses to do with his images - it's just one of those nostalgic 60's and 70's things. What's happening man? I mean, it looks like the 70's are over already. Rolling Stone (and Deluxe? remember Deluxe?). All our icons...

I'd hoped that my post would not be taken too seriously.

Best,
Helen


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## Alex_B

well, we could contact the real Tim and ask him!


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## notelliot

i'm tim page.

hi guys.


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## AmericanJesus

And im Moses!

Helen,

We are abusing your generations culture (i assume your from that generation) by using Jeffersons airplane is stupid un-related video adds because the general population of my generation is full of ignorant dumbasses that tend to just piss off everyone else that is alive. It really pisses me off, i love music from the 60's and 70's and i hate when its used in such a pathetic way. =\ So i has a non-official and out-spoken member of my generation, i apologize, for what its worth I'm sorry the other people my age insist on squeezing every ounce of 'retro' music, clothing, and whatever else out of what you hold has some of your most precious memories. 


AND SPELLING DOESNT COUNT IN THE REAL WORLD!

Oh yes

Turn on, Tune in, and Drop out!

<3 i love old people.


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## Tim Page

G'Day

Tim is off shooting the Byron Bay Music Festival, so this is Shaun.

Was this a commercial product and photo forum, if not - my bad.
Anyway, Tim did not make that video, I did. Actually, it was a video I had to send to reps from Leica, and was too busy to make another version for 'industry feedback', which this was suppose to be. Perhaps I should have made another one without the intro, but thanks for calling my work tacky. I should have stayed in the military maybe...
Tim is and has been a freelancer - when freelance correspondents make 15 cents a word trying to survive hostile-environments to bring us stories, or photojournalists are doing the same for very poor vending rates, why do we see a problem with people releasing a box set of images that were never published?
There is no superannuation in freelance photography, but not everyone wants to be a wedding photographer. How do you survive off an archive?Tim has never been concerned with money, maybe you have read his book - Page after Page, showed up to Laos with no money, same in Viet Nam, same in the States, etc - raising funds for MAG (Mine Advisory Group) and doing photo essays on the effects of Agent Orange. I was trying to remind people that he was still working, have people get excited about his work (as I am). 

Also, about the nostalgia of the 60s & 70s - people with 'values' established during those decades are the ones running the world today...



> I have no doubt that they are trawling


What does this mean?


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## Tim Page

Rick Waldroup said:


> Hey, Helen, I've seen the same post by Tim, almost word for word, on two other photo forums.


 
This is Shaun -

Tim has never been a member of photo forums, and really is not able to use a keyboard because of injuries he sustained in Viet Nam. However, I thought that I would join a few and get some feedback on this project. Who knows, it could help with the edit - since we started with 1500 images, and it is getting a bit difficult. 
Sorry if you didn't feel the post was personalized enough.

Cheers, Shaun 

(from Austin, Texas originally - seeing you are from there, how are things?)


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## AmericanJesus

Shaun,

I can see where you are comming from. Ive not yet experienced it! But i do look up to people like Tim and many other users of this forum for there contributions to society and culture. I am all for Tim and anyone who works under him doing whatever it takes to get some compensation for the blood, sweat, tears, and un-imaginable horrors that they have faced in getting the perfect image. Its just by using his  name you gave false hope to people like me who look up to this man and his achievements, so please forgive us for being a little bitter.

Regards,
Jason Marshall


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## Tim Page

We live in the same house - so if you want to correspond with him, you can do so through me. The only difference is, that if you have a question for Tim - he has to sit and write the response down - then I'll type it up.



> well, we could contact the real Tim and ask him!


I'd still be the one typing it up


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## AmericanJesus

Tim Page said:


> We live in the same house - so if you want to correspond with him, you can do so through me. The only difference is, that if you have a question for Tim - he has to sit and write the response down - then I'll type it up.
> 
> 
> I'd still be the one typing it up



His work, what he did in such horrible times. The risks he took to take the images that would define that conflict is one of the few things that drive me in my photography, i aspire to cover people involved in conflicts, not the politics not the politicians. The soldiers, and more importantly the people who are displaced, uprooted and directly impacted by conflicts. At the very least, tell him thanks.


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## Tim Page

I will tell him.

One thing that Tim has mentioned quite often about what he saw changed my perception of 'victim', which may help you empathize with all the people you photograph in those environments. 
He said, "Everybody in conflict becomes a victim, both the person pulling the trigger and the person taking the shrapnel."

I suppose there is no way to fully understand that until you have lived it and seen the effects, both emotional burdens and physical wounds.


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## Los Angeles

personally I dont see any problem with the beginning of the video.  The shots of the Leica are short and few.  Its the theme for the collection.  all shot on a 21.  I think its a great collection and a great idea.  Beyond that I like the shots of the camera in the begining it sets the tone for what you expect to see.


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## Helen B

Shaun Filer said:


> ...
> Tim is and has been a freelancer - when freelance correspondents make 15 cents a word trying to survive hostile-environments to bring us stories, or photojournalists are doing the same for very poor vending rates, why do we see a problem with people releasing a box set of images that were never published?



Who here is seeing a problem? I'd like to hear Tim's thoughts on this, which is why I asked him the questions. I was hoping for some fellow-traveller sort of connection with someone of a similar age, motivation, attitudes and background - though I am mired in self-imposed obscurity and not in the same league as Tim, I face a lot of the same issues and I believed that I shared some of his values. That's why I addressed Tim - a guy who I admire enormously.




> There is no superannuation in freelance photography, but not everyone wants to be a wedding photographer. How do you survive off an archive?


I don't, and have never, expected to live off my archive, but I'm nowhere near as well known as Tim. I expected to be working until the day I died - but I was caught unprepared to survive this long, so my long-term plans are a little shaky. I guess that we have to do whatever we believe is right at the time we do it. 

As C Day Lewis wrote:

_It was not fraud or foolishness,
Glory, revenge, or pay:
We came because our open eyes
Could see no other way._



> Also, about the nostalgia of the 60s & 70s - people with 'values' established during those decades are the ones running the world today...


What do you mean by that? Are people like Tim running the world?

Best wishes,
Helen

PS Has Tim ever thought about using voice recognition software?


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## AmericanJesus

Helen didnt read my long rant about how my generation is totally abusing her generation


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## Helen B

I did read it, and found it heartening. Thank you. I just wasn't sure how to respond in a clear way. I thought that it was an interesting viewpoint. What I saw as sleeping with an old enemy, so to speak, you see as abusing the values of a previous generation. I don't know who has the rights to White Rabbit, or who agreed to their use in the ad. Among all the 60s and 70s tunes that have been used for commercials, that one has caused us the most debate, on many levels. That's what the dormouse said.

Best,
Helen


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## Tim Page

I'll get Tim to address you directly Helen.

However, can you explain this:


> Has Tim ever thought about using voice recognition software?


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## AmericanJesus

Tim Page said:


> I'll get Tim to address you directly Helen.
> 
> However, can you explain this:



There is software available for computers that alows a user to speak into a microphone and the words spoken are then translated into text. The software has come a long way, you might see it used by cellphone users that have the bluetooth head sets on there ears.


And Helen, 

Im just upset with how we end up bastardizing everything =\


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## Tim Page

I'll look into getting voice recognition software. Thanks for the tip. I was under the impression that the software was quite flawed and frustrating to use -


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## AmericanJesus

Tim Page said:


> I'll look into getting voice recognition software. Thanks for the tip. I was under the impression that the software was quite flawed and frustrating to use -



Once you train it, it can work really well.


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## Los Angeles

Helen B said:


> Tim,
> 
> The You Tube video starts with a tacky Leica-fondling commercial intro. I guess that was part of the deal with Leica - as is this whole promotion. I'd like to think that you have become a member of this forum in order to share your knowledge and experience rather than to promote a Leica advert, but that hope is probably unrealistic, and in vain.



Helen it looks like you have a problem with it.


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## Helen B

I don't have a problem with Tim releasing a box set of images (_"I wouldn't want to criticize Tim for whatever he chooses to do with his images ..."_), but I was initially puzzled by the mismatch in character between Tim's work and the intro. As we now know, it wasn't Tim's work but Shaun's: _"Anyway, Tim did not make that video, I did. Actually, it was a video I had to send to reps from Leica, and was too busy to make another version for 'industry feedback', which this was suppose to be."_

That pretty much explains the odd nature of the intro. It tends to give the lens the status of an icon*, and it really seemed out of character compared to what I know of Tim's work.

Best,
Helen

*In case anyone is wondering, I have one, and I use it quite a lot. It's a nice lens, for sure.


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## Renair

...anyhow, back to the photo's.  I like certain ones, is there a voting system to help narrow down the selection?


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## usayit

Helen B said:


> IIt tends to give the lens the status of an icon*, and it really seemed out of character compared to what I know of Tim's work.



I just saw the video and this thread...  I'm kinda in agreement with Helen.  I think the series speaks volumes in of itself.  The beginning kinda "cheapens" the whole thing by being Leica "commercialized".   The video brings focus on "a wonderful piece of glass" instead of the accomplishments of a talented photographer.  

Leica shooters are always faced with the whole (expensive) equipment versus photographer stigma.  The only Leica screen time that I see appropriate is Tim Page's portrait with the camera and lens of his choosing.... which happens to be a Leica with the 21mm Elmarit.


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## Tim Page

> Leica shooters are always faced with the whole (expensive) equipment versus photographer stigma. The only Leica screen time that I see appropriate is Tim Page's portrait with the camera and lens of his choosing.... which happens to be a Leica with the 21mm Elmarit.


 
I'll keep that in mind when I redo the video - I really didn't think it was a big deal, because Tim always praises the lens. As well as coming from a tradition that, "To take a good picture you have to get close".



> ...anyhow, back to the photo's. I like certain ones, is there a voting system to help narrow down the selection?


 
If you are able, please just email timpageimage@gmail.com to list the images you admire.

Cheers,
Shaun


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## Helen B

Tim Page said:


> I'll keep that in mind when I redo the video - I really didn't think it was a big deal, because Tim always praises the lens.



Shaun,

Usayit has explained how I feel better than I did.

Nobody is arguing that it isn't a great lens, but it is just a lens and not an icon. Images can convey messages, and I believe that we are obliged to at least be aware of what messages our images could send. My feeling is that the lens isn't as important as the person behind the lens, and the person behind the lens isn't as important as the people in front.

Best,
Helen

PS Have you thought about posting under a screen name other than 'Tim Page'?


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## usayit

Yup..  I didn't mean to convey that the lens isn't all that great... IT IS A WONDERFUL work of craftsmanship..  In fact, I'll probably be an owner of that lens sometime in the next year or so (assuming I can keep up with the savings and the dollar  ).  

Expensive camera items always seem to detract from the photographer's work and efforts; that Leica "Red Dot" is especially good at it.  Simply showing Mr. Page's portrait with his camera of choice, a Leica, is just enough screen time for the Leica branding as to not take away from Mr. Page's accomplishments.  After all, Mr Page's images and their content is worth more than even the 21mm Elmarit costing several thousand dollars.    

You want the viewer to say 

"Wow... Look at what Tim Page captured in his lifetime!!"  
instead of  
"Wow... thats a wonderful piece of glass!!"



BTW... I like your choice in music.  Is there a website that has these photos in a little better clarity than possible in a youtube video?


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## Iron Flatline

Well, I love the work, and will be sending in some notes on the various images soon. 

I just spent three weeks in Cambodia and Vietnam behind an M8 with the 21mm Elmarit, and I can tell you that it is a fabulous lens. Don't even bother looking at my blog, nothing has been worked on or posted yet - I'll show them off in the TPF Gallery when I'm ready. My point is that the lens is great, but none of my images came out like Tim's - so believe me, it ain't the gear taking the pictures.

...well, one or two of mine are pretty good. But after twenty years I'm entitled to get one once in a while ;-)


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## THORHAMMER

Oh Iron, 

WTF dude, your everywhere? 

One day we were walking the streets of Los Angeles, now then you popped up in Berlin, Now Cambodia land of rice water things? 

Dude gets around !!!!  

I cant wait to see the shots !!


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## usayit

hehee.. you forgot NYC last month or so...  dude really gets around...


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## Hertz van Rental

Tim Page said:


> What does this mean?



'Trawling' as in 'fishing' but with a big net.
If you are wanting to get as good a response as possible to something you put it in a number of places where it can be seen by a lot of people. On the Internet this means posting the same thing on a number of boards.
The wider you cast your 'net' the more 'fish' you catch.
A perfectly reasonable and sensible thing to do if you want to guarantee getting some responses and I don't have a problem with it.
I worked in Advertising for some years and I often slip into Ad-Speak. Sorry


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