# Axer Lens = Scam / Ripoff . Run Quick! Friend Ripped Off



## JBrown

So my friend just came over to the house to show me her new lens and was really excited. Last thing I heard she was going to get a Nikon 50 mm 1.4 so I was excited to see her new purchase. She arrived at the house and proceeded to show me a Axer brand lens and explained to me how awesome it was etc etc. Told me how she went into the camera store and the salesman showed her this and gave her a real good deal at $600. Of course she googles the price first and finds the website which shows it as a whopping $1500.

Long story short I do some researching and realize this lens is nothing more than a re branded $20 wide angle adapter and is one of the most common scams perpetrated in camera stores.

So the delima is, do I tell her? Right now she is happy with her purchase and has no idea she got screwed. I feel that there is no way the store would refund her money and me telling her would just make her bitter. On the other hand she believes the store has great people working in it and they gave her a great deal. Im torn what to do.

Main thing is, no matter what do not buy Axer lenses for $100's. I really hope Google web crawler finds this thread so others don't get screwed over.


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## MK3Brent

Umm..
I'd tell her, personally.

Please explain why she couldn't get a refund?


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## 480sparky

How could she 'not get a refund' if she's never tried to return it yet?


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## JBrown

Well considering the guys at the photo store are knowingly selling her a $20 wide angle adapter for $600, I seriously doubt they would let her return it. Whats the point of scamming someone if they find out later and return it.


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## thetrue

If its a common scam, I'm sure the store knows that it might come back. Most people (like your friend) may just be too gullible and never return it, therefore camera store FTW


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## Light Guru

You call this person a friend so of courts you tell her. If you don't tell her then you are a lousy friend. Why would you even ask us the question?


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## JBrown

Only reason I even hesitate is I am operating on the premise she will not be refunded. If I tell her she finds out and is angry/pissed/bitter etc etc about being scammed and wasting $600.  Right now she is happy with her purchase. So my hesitation is what is the net result?


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## Derrel

Check THIS web page out!!!!

Lenses


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## JBrown

Derrel said:


> Check THIS web page out!!!!
> 
> Lenses



Yep the Axer Lenses are rebranded Vivatars. Of course the Vivatars sell for $20 or so.

43-58W :: .43x Wide Angle Lens :: Vivitar


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## jrizal

Any purchase should not be made solely on the "discount" being offered. That is the main trick used to scam people. Back to Axer, I am no pro but given their prices and the type of products I wouldn't buy them even if I had the money.

Here's something I found. Guided Impulse Purchase - The Diy Chronicles

As for your dilemma, I would prefer to tell your friend about this so that she won't make the same mistake again. Whether she tries to return it and not get a refund or do nothing at all, she's still out by $580 but she'll know better. Other options she may take are to report it to the BBB or go to small claims court. Just my two cents.


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## JackandSally

If it were me, and a friend knew I'd bought a cheap lens and paid a ton for it, I'd expect them to tell me and be MORE pissed if they didn't.  

If it's a legitimate store, they will refund her money.  This is also why knowing your research before you walk into a store to buy ANYTHING is crucial.  

If it's a "big box store" of any sorts, all she has to do is threaten with calling corporate and they will change their tune VERY quickly (trust me, I threaten companies all the time with corporate because I don't like getting screwed over or buying junk).  

If it's a small mom and pop place, they tend to go by word of mouth and if they're getting negative word of mouth, they won't be in business long - and if it happens the owner isn't aware of what is going on, you can be sure the owner will be the first to make things right to keep reputation.

Either way, as a friend, you need to tell her.  It's the right thing to do.


Sorry... needed to edit the grammar.  Stupid they're there their.


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## Overread

You tell her right up front and as soon as possible. 

The shop can't refuse her a refund in the least because of consumer trade laws, the best they could sting her for is a "restocking fee" however I suspect once you reveal to your friend the full details of the scam she'll be annoyed enough to challenge them even on that front. Heck if you're worried you could also offer to accompany her to the shop. 

Considering that its a sale made in a physical shop its a very bold move as they can't just run away so easily


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## MK3Brent

JBrown said:


> Well considering the guys at the photo store are knowingly selling her a $20 wide angle adapter for $600, I seriously doubt they would let her return it. Whats the point of scamming someone if they find out later and return it.



That makes no sense. She has a receipt. .. just take it back


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## Tee

What's he name of the camera store?  If you want Google crawlers to find this page then out the store.


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## JBrown

Some random store in Orlando FL. I dont know the name, didn't ask. Its a mom and pop shop, not a big box.


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## Majeed Badizadegan

Overread said:


> *Considering that its a sale made in a physical shop its a very bold move as they can't just run away so easily*



I would never, ever, in 1 million years let this fly. 

Call your states Better Business Bureau. 

Tell a police officer the story, and see if he'd come along.  

After they give the full refund, she should still report them to the Better Business Bureau. Scams are illegal and should warrant a business ethics investigation.

But she shouldn't stop there: get her to go on Google business search and give them a horrible review detailing your experience. Then make sure she tells all her friends about the experience.


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## JBrown

Based on everyone's advice Ill tell her tomorrow and if need be go to the store with her. Hopefully she can get refunded, however I'm doubting it, but we shall see.


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## thetrue

Rotanimod has a good plan layout for you, I would seriously considering going that route.


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## JBrown

Rotanimod said:


> Overread said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Considering that its a sale made in a physical shop its a very bold move as they can't just run away so easily*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would never, ever, in 1 million years let this fly.
> 
> Call your states Better Business Bureau.
> 
> Tell a police officer the story, and see if he'd come along.
> 
> After they give the full refund, she should still report them to the Better Business Bureau. Scams are illegal and should warrant a business ethics investigation.
> 
> But she shouldn't stop there: get her to go on Google business search and give them a horrible review detailing your experience. Then make sure she tells all her friends about the experience.
Click to expand...


The problem and what I'm worried about is its not a scam per say. She bought an item for an outrageous price, much more than it should be. Its no different than buying a $150 Monster HDMI cable when a $5 no name brand cable does the same exact thing. A officer would first off refuse to go and then tell her its a civil matter.  I'm sure Axer is for all intents and purposes a shell name to sell crazy markup items with huge dividends for the store.


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## Derrel

JBrown said:


> Some random *store in Orlando FL*. I dont know the name, didn't ask. Its a mom and pop shop, not a big box.



After looking at the post above (post #10's link) that listed the bad experience of a tourist shopping at a camera store in Clermont, Florida, I typed in "*Clermont, Florida camera store*" into a Google search window, and within the first few search results were the words, "ripped him off"...and so I clicked on the link...huh...a posted story about a man who was sold a $400 point and shoot for a "discounted price" of $775...hmmmm...

cameraelectronicsorlando: Global Camera 9350 U.S. 192, Clermont, FL 34714 863-420-8394 Ripped him off too

Sounds like the greater Orlando area has some people who have reported being badly scammed by at least one particular store...


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## thetrue

Seems like its tourist towns!!!!!


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## jrizal

JBrown said:


> Only reason I even hesitate is I am operating on the premise she will not be refunded. If I tell her she finds out and is angry/pissed/bitter etc etc about being scammed and wasting $600.  Right now she is happy with her purchase. So my hesitation is what is the net result?



The net result is for her to learn her mistake not to be suckered again. After that, it is her decision to go after the company for a refund or simply live up to her mistake which is a costly one. Just tell her in the nicest/plausible manner possible so she won't be shocked. Hope everything ends well on her end.


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## John27

JBrown said:


> The problem and what I'm worried about is its not a scam per say. She bought an item for an outrageous price, much more than it should be. Its no different than buying a $150 Monster HDMI cable when a $5 no name brand cable does the same exact thing. A officer would first off refuse to go and then tell her its a civil matter.  I'm sure Axer is for all intents and purposes a shell name to sell crazy markup items with huge dividends for the store.



This is my though too but I absolutely WOULD try to get a refund.  It might not be worth it for this store to have any bad press about it.  Just TRY to get a refund.  What can a phone call hurt?  You pick up the phone, you say "Can I get a refund" what's done is done.  No sense debating it here, just try it.

As far as a scam, it looks like Axer is the scam and this camera shop is just a culpable opportunist.  But, in the end, that appears to be the price of this product, even if it's outrageous.

If they don't want to offer a refund, find out if a local news station does a segment on shady businesses.  These journalists are usually super slimy and have a reputation as such, and the last thing that store wants is to be featured on the evening news with the worst possible shots of the proprietor shown as potential customers are sitting down to watch the evening news.  Find out if there is anything like that, and threaten with it!

In the end though, that's why being an informed consumer is SO important.  But I really would TRY, at least TRY to get a refund.  Most of these 'shady' type businesses, less than ethical, don't want to make a fuss.  They'll gladly give you a refund to make you happy, box it back up, and sell it to the next sucker.  Given the location, probably a sucker on vacation who decides they need that lens, and drops the big bucks because they can't wait to order it from Amazon.com, only to get home (perhaps several hundred miles away) to find out it's a $20 lens...  THAT is who they are after.  Just try it man, I mean seriously, it just takes a phone call or a quick visit.  Based on their response, decide where to go from there.


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## Psytrox

I'm don't know a lot about American consumer laws. But in Norway, we can return just about anything within two weeks, for just about any reason. This provided you haven't damaged the goods of course.
Aren't there any similar consumer laws in your state? To be honest, I'd try returning the lens before contacting the police


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## Overread

John27 said:


> JBrown said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just try it man, I mean seriously, it just takes a phone call or a quick visit.  Based on their response, decide where to go from there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't call, its too easily to be put off with a phone call. Travel to the shop and have it dealt with there.
Click to expand...


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## Psytrox

Overread said:


> John27 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JBrown said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just try it man, I mean seriously, it just takes a phone call or a quick visit.  Based on their response, decide where to go from there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't call, its too easily to be put off with a phone call. Travel to the shop and have it dealt with there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> There would also be an advantage to return the lens while there are customers in the store.  As they may try to avoid looking difficult. And if they wont let you return your lens. Tell all their customers in the shop that they scammed you, and are refusing to accept returns.
> After they have seen that they have lost one or two more customers. Tell them everything you intend to do, reporting them to buisness ethics department (if anything like that excists), give them bad reviews anywhere you can. Tell all your friends, and their dogs about their shop.
> I'm sure running a business like that is hard enough already, that they don't need bad reputations to go with it... They might even change their minds...
Click to expand...


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## timor

Is there no 14 days return for full refund ?


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## gsgary

I think she got a bargain,original post was remove


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## gsgary

She cant be much of a friend or you would have done something about it


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## EJRPhotos

I have to agree with John27 i would find a local paper and news station to talk to for the publisity and make that business pay for its mistakes. if it happened to your friend then i am willing to bet it has happened to countless others. 

My cousin lives in that area and wants to start getting into photography and i would like it to be known what shops are major crooks down there just so i could warn him of such places. and he goes to school down there so just by word of mouth alone it could start really closing the places doors basied on the bad publisity.

Sorry my spelling is so awefull and my grammer is non existant. never cared for english in school only my photography class. looking back i should have paid a little more attention lol..

p.s. good luck to your friend and yourself, you have gotten a lot of good advice here I suggest you make some moves quick with this situation. and keep us up to date on what happens.


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## rlemert

If your friend does try to get her money back, the store may agree - or it may refuse.

  If your friend does not try, then the store's policy becomes irrelevant - you've made the decision for them.

  Both options have the same downside - that she's stuck with the lens and out the money.

  The first option has a potential up-side - she get's her money back.

  Why would you want to eliminate that potential up-side?


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## sm4him

JBrown said:


> Rotanimod said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Overread said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Considering that its a sale made in a physical shop its a very bold move as they can't just run away so easily*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would never, ever, in 1 million years let this fly.
> 
> Call your states Better Business Bureau.
> 
> Tell a police officer the story, and see if he'd come along.
> 
> After they give the full refund, she should still report them to the Better Business Bureau. Scams are illegal and should warrant a business ethics investigation.
> 
> But she shouldn't stop there: get her to go on Google business search and give them a horrible review detailing your experience. Then make sure she tells all her friends about the experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The problem and what I'm worried about is its not a scam per say. She bought an item for an outrageous price, much more than it should be. Its no different than buying a $150 Monster HDMI cable when a $5 no name brand cable does the same exact thing. A officer would first off refuse to go and then tell her its a civil matter.  I'm sure Axer is for all intents and purposes a shell name to sell crazy markup items with huge dividends for the store.
Click to expand...


In my city, there are several news channels who just LOVE to do reports on scams just like that.  The second they refuse her a refund, you turn the video camera on, tell them Channel X will be hearing about this and you ask them to specifically state why she can't get a refund.  

This goes beyond your friend's "happiness" because she doesn't know the truth.  What happens the NEXT time she wants to buy a lens, and she tells you she's going back to this store that was so "great" to deal with before? 
Are you going to tell her THEN--when she really won't be able to get her $$ back on this lens--or are you going to continue to keep your mouth shut and let her lose even more money, AND support a store that scams people?


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## amolitor

I am confused by what she bought. How does a wide angle adapter work at a lens? Does whatever she bought mount directly on the body? Or is the original story just very mangled, and she was planning to buy a lens, and got sold an adapter instead?


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## ph0enix

How is this even up for debate?  Of course tell your friend ASAP regardless of the outcome.  She needs to know she got screwed.


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## ClickAddict

Everyone seems to be jumping on the call the press, call the cops bandwagon, but has anyone considerd that the store MAY NOT KNOW they sold her junk? Yes they should know if it's their business, but if they are a general electronics shop and not a camera specific, it's possible they saw this product online and bought it also for much more than it's worth without knowing. I'd bring it back, explain. IF they act surprised (Convincingly) and offer money back no hassles etc... Leave it at that. If they act like they knew all along, then hit them with the press etc... There's one thing to make a mistake and there's another to be dishonest.

Oh and yes tell your friend


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## unpopular

It is unlikely the media will want to reveal specifics at risk of liability. Generally, the US does not have laws providing a mandatory refund period. However, there may be a bad faith claim here. I believe in the US, every transaction is a contract. Despite what you see in cartoons, you can't just willingly take advantage of people's ignorance. I'd try to return it, claim that it wasn't quite what you had expected. I wouldn't go in blazing about being ripped off. Just your normal complaints. If no refund is provided, the salesperson will then say that "all are sales final".

If your friend bought the lens on a Credit Card, you may want to contact them. But other than that, your only other course of action would be small claims court, and without an attorney the "all sales final" sign will be hard to argue.

Did the salesperson explicitly state that this lens *was* a specific effective focal length? Like, did the seller say "Oh yeah, this *is* a 24mm lens!" This could be grounds for fraud, as the product's EFL is not going to be what was stated.

However, if the store was unaware, and was ripped off by this company as well, then no fraud would have taken place. However, I find that very hard to believe.


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## Dao

If I were you, I will tell her the truth and assist her later in lens purchase (or direct her to TPF).

For the lens that she already bought, I will suggest her bring it back to the shop and ask for a return for refund.  If needed, I will assist her on that.

If the store refuse to do so, I will contact local BBB as well as FL state consumer service (File a Complaint - Division of Consumer Services, DOACS) and see if they are able to offer some help.


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## unpopular

If you are a professional photographer yourself, it might be a good idea to get on the phone with her CC company in a conference call, expressing your expert opinion why you think your friend was taken advantage of, and why you think she did not get the product which she thought she did.


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## KmH

JBrown said:


> Some random store in Orlando FL.


I hate it when those random stores pop up.

No doubt, you tell a friend you think they got ripped off.

Retail stores that routinely scam customers don't stay in business long. A retail store in a tourist town may be more willing to do so knowing many of their customers live elsewhere.


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## Majeed Badizadegan

So many people seem to think that walking on eggshells is the best recourse she has. 

Hell no. If it was me, I wouldn't rest until I had a full refund. And if there was no good reason and apology provided, I'd be going to the better business bureau too.

the consumer is not powerless if they've been scammed by a retail store. It's not like she bought this thing from a guy in a trench coat. Please stop giving this guy misinformation. If what he says is true, there are plenty of things the buyer can do. None of which is "asking nicely for a refund and if they don't give oh wells lol".


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## unpopular

Rotanimod said:


> I'd be going to the better business bureau too.



Dun dun DUNNNNNNNNNN!


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## thetrue

Will the BBB get her a refund? Unlikely. The place may not even care about a bad mark on their record because how many people sit in a parking lot and research a store they may buy from if they're en route to Magic Kingdom? I know I wouldn't.......


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## unpopular

And going in with your guns blazing isn't going to do anything either except get your adrenaline up. I think it's better to not let the know that you're onto them, so they have no reason to provide you with anything but more lousy customer service. If they know you're onto them, what's the point of even pretending to be honest?

Heck, I'd even say "it turns out I really just didn't need it", and then report to the BBB and also all over the internets.


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## thetrue

I'll go the way of the donkey, angry gets little result. Just go in like it was Walmart when you're returning the extra whatever that you bought just in case.


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## Majeed Badizadegan

Business establishments are governed by a set of rules like everyone else. If they are knowingly conducting bad-faith sales, it's against the law. Period. 

The BBB exists for situations _*exactly *_like this. They have been extremely helpful in my experience in the past and are always on the side of the consumer. 

If the business sold her this item in bad faith, it's reasonable to assume there's no chance they'd allow a refund. I'd go in with the "blazing guns" holstered, play nice at first, but would not be afraid to take the bull by the horns.


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## jrizal

amolitor said:


> I am confused by what she bought. How does a wide angle adapter work at a lens? Does whatever she bought mount directly on the body? Or is the original story just very mangled, and she was planning to buy a lens, and got sold an adapter instead?



A wide angle adapter is attached to a normal lens so that one can focus closer to the subject for macro shots. Clearly this is a scam as even Nikon's consumer grade adaptor sells for $149 thereabouts and some adapters sold by Axer cost even more than a dedicated macro lens. Quoting a a heavy discount is evident of a scam but there may be a legal loophole to describe it as such. Only gullible individuals are suckered into this kind of deals.


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## jrizal

unpopular said:


> However, if the store was unaware, and was ripped off by this company as well, then no fraud would have taken place. However, I find that very hard to believe.



I doubt it.


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## panblue

err...

hmmmm...

o..k....

very very weird IMHO 



Derrel said:


> Check THIS web page out!!!!
> 
> Lenses


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## panblue

I doubt business can get much better than that! 



unpopular said:


> Rotanimod said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd be going to the better business bureau too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dun dun DUNNNNNNNNNN!
Click to expand...


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## unpopular

panblue said:


> err...
> 
> hmmmm...
> 
> o..k....
> 
> very very weird IMHO
> 
> 
> 
> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Check THIS web page out!!!!
> 
> Lenses
Click to expand...


I think that website is provided to distributors as a "marketing" tool. They're given a suggested retail value ridiculously higher than the actual value - and this website reflects that MSRV. The local distributor buys the adaptors from Axer for maybe $14/each, Axer buys the adapters from Vivitar for $7/each, and Vivitar buys them probably from Samyang or some other Korean or Chinese manufacturer for a $1.25/each.

But I think everyone knows what Axer is doing. They provide this bogus website where you can buy a $1,460 adapter, which the local distributor can use to validate to the customer that they are getting a great deal at $140, which seems to be the bottom that they're willing to negotiate - still, a 1000% profit.


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## Derrel

panblue said:


> err...
> 
> hmmmm...
> 
> o..k....
> 
> very very weird IMHO
> 
> 
> 
> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Check THIS web page out!!!!
> 
> Lenses
Click to expand...


Just type in the two-word search string "Axer lens" in a Google search...now, until THIS thread popped up, the second result was the "Axer lenses" web page, with the ridiculously high prices for rebadged Vivitar screw-in lens converters... but NOW...the scam has been introduced to the search results and this very thread is high in the results.

Axer - Google Search


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## unpopular

Does anyone know if the Magenta Coated Lens is still available?

Axer Titanium Magenta Coated Lens Deluxe Super Wide Angle Lens day/Night 58MM | eBay

I hear that Magenta is a great lens coating material. Cuts cosmic radiation that can result in deadly dichroic aeration!


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## jrizal

unpopular said:


> Does anyone know if the Magenta Coated Lens is still available?
> 
> Axer Titanium Magenta Coated Lens Deluxe Super Wide Angle Lens day/Night 58MM | eBay
> 
> I hear that Magenta is a great lens coating material. Cuts cosmic radiation that can result in deadly dichroic aeration!



Still available. 58mm Titanium Lens Series


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## Derrel

unpopular said:


> Does anyone know if the Magenta Coated Lens is still available?
> 
> Axer Titanium Magenta Coated Lens Deluxe Super Wide Angle Lens day/Night 58MM | eBay
> 
> I hear that Magenta is a great lens coating material. Cuts cosmic radiation that can result in deadly dichroic aeration!



No, the magenta was phased out in favor of the mauve-coated model, which gave way to the mulberry-coated Mark III, and then the CURRENT model is the pomegranite Axer Mark IV ButtWiper .47x non-Asph. model, available in 46-,49-,52-,55-,58-,62-,67-,72-,77- and 82-mm filter thread sizes.


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## unpopular

that's too bad. i always wanted a lens coated with magenta! i hear though that they are working on a new scratch and sniff grape model.


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## thetrue

Derrel said:


> unpopular said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if the Magenta Coated Lens is still available?
> 
> Axer Titanium Magenta Coated Lens Deluxe Super Wide Angle Lens day/Night 58MM | eBay
> 
> I hear that Magenta is a great lens coating material. Cuts cosmic radiation that can result in deadly dichroic aeration!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, the magenta was phased out in favor of the mauve-coated model, which gave way to the mulberry-coated Mark III, and then the CURRENT model is the pomegranite Axer Mark IV ButtWiper .47x non-Asph. model, available in 46-,49-,52-,55-,58-,62-,67-,72-,77- and 82-mm filter thread sizes.
Click to expand...

They don't have the 74.88948mm model anymore?!?!?!?!?!


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## panblue

Derrel said:


> mulberry-coated Mark III,



I read somewhere about a special Fünfziger Jahre Über Stellar edition. Ultra rare. Mythological status. Only 30,000 were made per month, between 1960 and 1998.


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## panblue

unpopular said:


> i hear though that they are working on a new scratch and sniff grape model.



As long as it's not on the rear element, no problemo.


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## 2WheelPhoto

Wonder how long that "camera store" will remain in business?  Send your friend to BHPHOTO.com


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## Tony S

HOpefully the store has a return policy........ get a hold of her asap and have her take it back. If they balk at taking the return then she can try the credit card company to stop the payment and then return the item. Buying with a CC gives the buyer a lot of power.


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## Overread

These days I've also noticed that even Debit cards get quite a lot of protections on them and banks will oft even go out of their way to give increased protection in some cases with retrieving money. Even if your amounts are below listed "protected" values always ask at the bank for help if you need it.


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## PlanetStarbucks

Derrel said:


> Just type in the two-word search string "Axer lens" in a Google search...now, until THIS thread popped up, the second result was the "Axer lenses" web page, with the ridiculously high prices for rebadged Vivitar screw-in lens converters... but NOW...the scam has been introduced to the search results and this very thread is high in the results.
> 
> Axer - Google Search



HA!  That was fast.  We should just start posting links in the thread to see if we can push the result to number one (if I remember right, part of google's ranking depends on how many interlinks there are on a page).  Five bucks says an Axer rep pops up soon to defend the product.


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## Ballistics

Am I the only one that thinks this story is made up? You're not sure if you should tell your friend that she's been robbed? I'm calling BS.


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## unpopular

^^ no. the story is real. other accounts of the exact same sales pitch are on the internet. She just took the bait earlier than most people.


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## molested_cow

On the other hand, my sister was looking for options on a compact wide angle solution. A mirrorless camera with wide angle lens cost as much as getting an entry DSLR with lens. She then found an wide angle attachment for her Panasonic point and shoot for cheap and she's happy with the results. She thought the mirrorless camera with wide angle lens route was the scam. I kinda agreed with her.

BTW selling a product way above what it's actually worth, is definitely illegal. This is not just about refunds. Refunds? No, it's compensation! 

When you get robbed and try to get your possession back, you don't call that a "refund".


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## Tee

Ballistics said:


> Am I the only one that thinks this story is made up? You're not sure if you should tell your friend that she's been robbed? I'm calling BS.



That was my first thought as well.  The fact that the OP "can't remember" the name of the store is fishy.  That's the first thing I'd ask.


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## Mully

Hire some "guys" from Jersey and go get a refund LOL


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## unpopular

molested_cow said:


> BTW selling a product way above what it's actually worth, is definitely illegal. This is not just about refunds. Refunds? No, it's compensation!
> 
> When you get robbed and try to get your possession back, you don't call that a "refund".



Legally speaking, I am 99% certain that before you can be compensated through the court system, you'll need to ask for a refund. The first thing a small claims judge is going to ask when reviewing the case is if you asked for one. If a refund is possible, then the case had no standing to start with.


----------



## jhodges10

Derrel said:
			
		

> No, the magenta was phased out in favor of the mauve-coated model, which gave way to the mulberry-coated Mark III, and then the CURRENT model is the pomegranite Axer Mark IV ButtWiper .47x non-Asph. model, available in 46-,49-,52-,55-,58-,62-,67-,72-,77- and 82-mm filter thread sizes.



My understanding is that they have an Acai model in development that will blow even the pomegranate away.


----------



## unpopular

^^^I hear the antioxidant properties will make prints more archival!


----------



## Luke345678

Dude you have got to tell her. That is horrible that she spent $600 for something that should be worth $20. If they don't comply to a refund then take it to the next level, court. That may sound ridiculous but in the end she will end up with a nice sum of money but most likely the store WILL comply with her needs. Also when she goes I would go with her if I were you. After you get this resolved I would take up finding a new camera store because obvious the guys aren't great or shop online from a trustful site such as amazon or if you want to spend a little extra money, get it off the actual site for retail.


----------



## unpopular

^^ I doubt there are any punitive damages here, aside from court expenses.

I agree, taking this to small claims court is a good idea, arguing the sale was in bad faith, but I wouldn't expect a "large sum of money". 

Beyond small claims, you'll need to talk to an attorney. And honestly, less a class action, I doubt it'd be worth their time.


----------



## Nicah

As a friend, you should tell her the truth. As long as you're not rubbing it in her face that she got scammed, I don't see the issue in telling her. It's honestly how you choose to deliver the bad news. Tone and manner. I would personally start with "I know you love and are really excited about your new lens. But, I think you should look at what I found out about your lens..." 

As for this business, you need to find out the name and research the business. I would go with your friend to the shop and demand a refund of a price difference (if your friend really loves it, she might want to keep it). If she just bought the item, look at the receipt for a return policy. A legitimate business will take back the product. If they refuse, I would threaten to report them to local authorities, contact a local news crew, bbb, and write a bad review about their shop on every review site that matters. It's overboard, but a company that scams is not one that should continue to stay in business. If this shop honestly was scammed by a sales rep themselves, they would take the product back and thank you for bringing it to their attention.


----------



## JBrown

Update:

Im somewhat surprised at all the people who are claiming I made it up, what possible motivation/gain would I have for that? I can assure you that unfortunately the story is real and the reason I don't know the name of the store is because at the time it was irrelevant and didn't ask. The fraud happened at a small mom and pop shop in Orlando FL and we live approximately 1.5 hours away.

I did end up telling my friend and she took it rather well. Obviously she wasn't happy when I told her about the scam aspect and probability she wouldn't be able to get a refund, but she was glad I told her. She immediately called the store and began to get the run around from the sales guy. He told her to "try" it for 6 months then come back. Gave her the "you got a great deal  why do you want to return it" etc etc just bull****ting her and giving her the run around. I found out that luckily the purchase was made on a credit card. She immediately called them and told them about the situation and the fraud. Credit card company told her at this time since the charge hadn't made it through yet they wouldn't take any action until then. 

Unfortunately that's all the update I have at this point. She told me in retrospect now knowing that it was scam a lot of things made sense on how the guy acted etc. When she went into the store he specifically asked her if she was a pro or amatuer and how long she had been shooting etc. The #1 thing that bothers me is she went in knowing what she wanted and had directly asked for that product. The scumbag salesman then proceeds to question her decision and do the salesman gig pushing her towards the scam item. She knows better now, but its a shame to see her get scammed for such a large amount. 

I honestly don't know if she would even have any legal recourse since its a sham company, but regardless the item MSRP is really high and she made a legit purchase.

Ill keep you updated what happens as I learn about it. The best thing tho is that his thread does show up high on Google search .


----------



## BrianV

I wonder if the ex-owners of Cambridge Camera moved to Orlando.

Cambridge was big on "Bait and Switch". These scams go back decades. The Internet gets them into the public's eye faster than letters to the editor of Pop Photo.


----------



## unpopular

JBrown said:


> Ill keep you updated what happens as I learn about it. The best thing tho is that his thread does show up high on Google search .



Would you mind revealing the name of the camera company, so that people can avoid it?


----------



## pixmedic

unpopular said:


> JBrown said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ill keep you updated what happens as I learn about it. The best thing tho is that his thread does show up high on Google search .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Would you mind revealing the name of the camera company, so that people can avoid it?
Click to expand...


^^fo realz yo...i live in the orlando area and would love to avoid camera stores that rip people off. Drop the dime on this place already.


----------



## Majeed Badizadegan

JBrown said:


> Update:
> 
> Im somewhat surprised at all the people who are claiming I made it up, what possible motivation/gain would I have for that? I can assure you that unfortunately the story is real and the reason I don't know the name of the store is because at the time it was irrelevant and didn't ask. The fraud happened at a small mom and pop shop in Orlando FL and we live approximately 1.5 hours away.
> 
> I did end up telling my friend and she took it rather well. Obviously she wasn't happy when I told her about the scam aspect and probability she wouldn't be able to get a refund, but she was glad I told her. She immediately called the store and began to get the run around from the sales guy. He told her to "try" it for 6 months then come back. Gave her the "you got a great deal  why do you want to return it" etc etc just bull****ting her and giving her the run around. I found out that luckily the purchase was made on a credit card. She immediately called them and told them about the situation and the fraud. Credit card company told her at this time since the charge hadn't made it through yet they wouldn't take any action until then.
> 
> Unfortunately that's all the update I have at this point. She told me in retrospect now knowing that it was scam a lot of things made sense on how the guy acted etc. When she went into the store he specifically asked her if she was a pro or amatuer and how long she had been shooting etc. The #1 thing that bothers me is she went in knowing what she wanted and had directly asked for that product. The scumbag salesman then proceeds to question her decision and do the salesman gig pushing her towards the scam item. She knows better now, but its a shame to see her get scammed for such a large amount.
> 
> I honestly don't know if she would even have any legal recourse since its a sham company, but regardless the item MSRP is really high and she made a legit purchase.
> 
> Ill keep you updated what happens as I learn about it. The best thing tho is that his thread does show up high on Google search .



Glad you told her. You did the right thing. Couldn't have really called yourself a friend if you hadn't told her. 

Now as far as her proceeding to *call *the store, I think everyone here pretty much agreed that is the weakest possible way to approach this situation. Also, the longer the store stalls, the more grounds they have to claim that they don't do refunds past X number of days. 

You need to get in there in person. Again, if it was me, I'd call the local police department and explain the situation to a police officer. Ask them what they would advise you to do, maybe if you're lucky they'll send a cop with you. Nothing says good business to a potential customer in a store when they see an angry customer bringing in muscle and making noise. Bad for business.  

Going forth with a fraud claim on the credit card is a roundabout way of dealing with the real issue. The real issue is the store scammed you. _They _should be issuing a refund and an apology at the very, very least. 

Again, I don't think the consumer is ever powerless in this situation. The store wants to make you believe that you are weak and powerless in this situation, so they keep the money and you get screwed. 

Don't roll over.


----------



## Majeed Badizadegan

You also need to divulge the store name/address/phone number or this thread is useless as far as outing the specific shady business. Could be any store in Florida.


----------



## JBrown

As soon as I find out the store name ill post it.


----------



## Tony S

She needs to physically walk in the store and demand a refund.  Otherwise they can keep pushing her off until they say "it's too late, you've had it too long".  It is so very easy for them to push her aside on the phone, she needs in person contact and if needed a friend with her for support.


----------



## panblue

Hope it all works out OK; best of luck.


----------



## Overread

I'll fully agree that she needs to go into the shop and demand a refund - considering the questions the person asked her I suspect if you go with her and identify yourself as a pro they'll probably just want you and her out of the shop as fast as possible and not making a scene. 

I wouldn't bother with the police at this stage, it seems a major overreaction and I seriously doubt that anyone running a shop (scam or no scam) is suddenly going to pull some crazy violence or random scene or run out the back door over this. Again she needs to walk in and demand a refund - most of the protections and measures other parties can take will only come into effect after that demand has been clearly made and the shop given the option to deny or accept. If they accept you walk away clean if they deny then you can bring in the other parties to take action.


----------



## unpopular

the police will serve no purpose at all. what they did may or may not have been illegal, but likely not criminally illegal - unless outright fraud has been committed, like if the lens was counterfeit, this is probably more of a civil contract issue. People don't realize that there are two legal systems in the United States, this is a civil issue, and only the criminal justice system the police have jurisdiction.


----------



## panblue

unpopular said:


> People don't realize that there are two legal systems in the United States, this is a civil issue, and only the criminal justice system the police have jurisdiction.



  You've reminded me of something here in the UK..I go in a petrol (gas) station and while I'm waiting to pay, there's a sign which say it's a criminal offence to drive away without paying. Unless the fuel companies enjoy the protection of a special law, I find it  doubtful that this is valid. Owing money for goods purchased/services rendered hasn't been a criminal offence in England as far as I know, for a long, long time (i.e Charles Dickens era).


----------



## Overread

True but you also owe tax on that fuel as well the tax owed might be part of the criminal side.

That said they might also be allowed to post such a notice because there is a difference between the legal definition of criminal and the social meaning of the word criminal.


----------



## panblue

Overread said:


> True but you also owe tax on that fuel as well the tax owed might be part of the criminal side.
> 
> That said they might also be allowed to post such a notice because there is a difference between the legal definition of criminal and the social meaning of the word criminal.



  True; Des O'Connor is known for a long list of criminal records and, well, as Spinal Tap said.. "it's such a fine line between stupid and clever".


----------



## John27

panblue said:


> unpopular said:
> 
> 
> 
> People don't realize that there are two legal systems in the United States, this is a civil issue, and only the criminal justice system the police have jurisdiction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've reminded me of something here in the UK..I go in a petrol (gas) station and while I'm waiting to pay, there's a sign which say it's a criminal offence to drive away without paying. Unless the fuel companies enjoy the protection of a special law, I find it  doubtful that this is valid. Owing money for goods purchased/services rendered hasn't been a criminal offence in England as far as I know, for a long, long time (i.e Charles Dickens era).
Click to expand...



I don't know about the UK, but the state I live in has a SPECIFIC law for driving away without paying for fuel.  I believe the 'on paper' punishment is one year in prison, max of a $10,000 fine, and a suspension of your license (I think for one year).  I believe they cite it as a form of tax evasion.  BUT,  either way, there is a serious difference here.  If you buy the fuel 'on credit', with an agreement to pay but you don't pay, then it's a civil issue.  If you take the fuel with the 'owner' of the fuel expecting you to pay immediately, with no agreement for delayed payment, then you are STEALING the fuel.

If I don't make my house payment, the bank will file a lawsuit against me (foreclosure) and will take posession of the home.  The police will be there to secure the building and supervise the bank removing my personal belongings, but ultimately it's a civil matter, I won't go to jail for failing to pay my debt.

BUT, and here we go again, bouncing a check IS a crime.  If I right a check for a product, and the check doesn't clear, it's a crime.  If the check was for over $1,000, it's a felony that could result in prison time.  But, then again, it's not about owing money that a lender agreed to let me owe, it was about agreeing to pay for something, taking the product, and not paying for it.

In THIS case, I agree with others, this is NOT a criminal issue.  If you were given counterfeit goods, it would be, since that's a crime.  So, if I went to a store and bought an Apple iPad, and I got home and in the box was a piece of wood, or a chinese knock-off android tablet called an "I-Pad Pro Edition Super Ultra Max" or something, THEN I could involve the police in someone selling counterfeit goods (Selling me a knock off tablet, and telling me it is an authentic iPad).  But even THEN, I would only get compensation if I sue them, the police will only handle the criminal side of things, and they will NOT just 'let it go' if they give me the money back, so there is no 'threatening' with the police, if they have committed a crime, the police will investigate and the prosecutors will prosecute, whether or not you get paid is none of their concern.  Some prosecuting attorneys might incorporate reparations in the judgement, so in a couple years, you MIGHT have a court order requiring them to pay, but it all depends on how good their defense attorney is!  If you want to get paid, and feel you have been wronged, file a suit in the civil courts.  You have a legal right to settle debts over $20 in a court of law.  You paid more than that, and feel that you were wronged, so let a court decide!

Though, I would still push the refund.  It would be much easier and cheaper to get them to comply, rather than sue them.  Be polite, but stern.  As a last ditch effort, say "You know, I really need to get my money back for this lens, I don't think you were honest with me, and I might have to consult an attorney about what I need to do beyond this if you won't give me a refund".  You might get a response like "Oh, well, no need for that, just bring it back" and probably a "But, I gave you a great deal" or other guilt-tripping or even name calling, but who cares, you'll get your money back.


----------



## unpopular

I'm not really sure I see stealing gas any different than shoplifting? Maybe not?


----------



## PlanetStarbucks

unpopular said:


> I'm not really sure I see stealing gas any different than shoplifting? Maybe not?



Yeh, that's really all that needed to be said on that issue.  Stealing gas = theft = criminal 

So, I hate to be "that guy" on this thread, but...your friend's only recourse here is to get a refund.  To that end, feel free to do whatever.  Were it me, I'd walk in the store ask the rep for the refund, we'd have a little such and such but I would always end with that I want to return it.  If they won't then I'd talk to the manager.  Then if they don't and there's no one higher in the store then you write the corporate office or owner a letter.  And then finally I'd drop the BBB complaint and slander (err...politely descibe their service) on every review website I can find.

I say this, because a lot of us are going on about it being fraud, but this really isn't.  What happened is _caveat emptor_ - buyer beware.  There was a product, your friend made a decision to purchase that product and they agreed on a price.  The only way you can raise that to a level of fraud is be able to prove in a court of law (beyond a shadow of doubt) that the rep knowingly and intentionally misrepresented the product or it's capabilities and used that to entice the purchase.  Even if you could prove that he said something incorrect, you would still have to be able to prove that he did so with the _intent_ of defrauding your friend.  

Also, going to the bank that has the card isn't going to solve anything either.  The dispute will go through the normal process, but unless it was a fraudulent transaction (i.e. someone not the card holder using it) or the goods were never delivered by the merchant the charge will likely stand as is.  They'll drop the provisional credit in the meantime, but once the process is complete (up to 90 days) they can pull back the credit if it doesn't meet the criteria.  Keep in mind that when this happens the bank is literally reaching into their own pocket to give the card hold money back.  In many cases they have no way to recover the money from a disallowed transaction.  So they're only going to give the money back if they really have to.  That said, some banks are a lot more forgiving then others, so hell they might give it back anyway.  I'm just saying, don't count on the bank to give the money back cause based on what's described they won't.


----------



## unpopular

^^ yeah. I agree. While the transaction may have been in bad faith, I just don't think a lot can realistically be done aside from getting a refund. I mean, you could take it to small claims court, claiming that the seller knew that he was taking advantage of your friend's lack of knowledge, pointing to the fact he probed for information, but without an attorney who is familiar with contract law it's going to be a really hard sell - and I doubt very much that you'll find an attorney who will see this as being worth their time.

However, I have read of one case involving this store where the credit card company did reverse the transaction, but I also read on the same page that the credit card company did not choose to act.

One question I would have is if this lens was being sold as a complete optical imaging system, if this can be considered a "complete imaging system" and if she was being sold a lens with a specific focal length.


----------



## Spundoolick

Well it seems it not just Florida that these poor people were ripped off. Myself and 2 mates paid $200 each for these axer lenses. The guy showed us the axer web site and they were priced at $1500. The bottom line is they are rubbish. I think we should be looking at the actuall axer site because I think they have inflated the prices which is helping promote a scam like this . I had put an artical on the " guided impulse " section of the site someone mentioned in an earlier post . I got mine from Global Gift & Electronics in New York up near o' reillys on 7th 53rd but as the trip advisor new York forum says " never buy from any camera store in times square" ask locals to find out where they buy their products from. I paid on my credit card , rang them and they laughed!  I'm off to Florida. Next year and am gonna take the lens with me and in the meantime see if I can come up with a plan such as returning a product back to a camera store without the receipt that I lost , any ideas?


----------



## pixmedic

Spundoolick said:


> Well it seems it not just Florida that these poor people were ripped off. Myself and 2 mates paid $200 each for these axer lenses. The guy showed us the axer web site and they were priced at $1500. The bottom line is they are rubbish. I think we should be looking at the actuall axer site because I think they have inflated the prices which is helping promote a scam like this . I had put an artical on the " guided impulse " section of the site someone mentioned in an earlier post . I got mine from Global Gift & Electronics in New York up near o' reillys on 7th 53rd but as the trip advisor new York forum says " never buy from any camera store in times square" ask locals to find out where they buy their products from. I paid on my credit card , rang them and they laughed!  I'm off to Florida. Next year and am gonna take the lens with me and in the meantime see if I can come up with a plan such as returning a product back to a camera store without the receipt that I lost , any ideas?



before we spend any money on gear that isn't OEM (and sometimes them as well) we research it. ESPECIALLY third party equipment. 
unless you are buying from a local store that you KNOW is knowledgeable and trustworthy, (and has a good return policy) never trust the salesman to really know the equipment, or be looking out for your best interest. you have to know what you are looking at, what the price for it should be, and how it works with the rest of your equipment.


----------



## Kolia

How can you not buy from B&H when in New York ???


----------



## Spundoolick

Exactly, I know that now but there's still a lot of peeps visiting these stores. I should have researched it. I am new to photography and had only had the camera a month so it's all new to me !


----------



## ROBIN88

I also purchased this AXER lens & I by chance I came across this chat. Even though I am using my lens & am very happy with it, I was concerned that i also got ripped off. I paid $625. 

So I started to do some research. I have a very good friend who helped me research this type of camera lens. The funny part is that he also found the same type of lenses for $15 or $8. But after further research he found out that the AXER brand lens is a very top market brand. They specialize in optical lenses. There components are also used on projectors & more professional style lenses.

What we also found out is that even though Vivitar is a well known name in Europe. A few years ago they sold their name & the company that bought it uses this name to sell lower quality lenses.There is a HUGE difference between the Vivitar lens & the AXER lens. 

My friend gave me a good comparisson to make me feel better. The same as if you buy a knockoff off Hublot watch for $20 or Maui Jim sunglasses & pay $10 & then  you go to a reputable store for the same item, you will pay about $32,000 for the watch a a few hundred for the sunglasses. but how can you compare a knockoff with the actual thing.

I would not tell your friend to return her lens. She has bought the higher quality lens & will enjoy it as I do.


----------



## BrianV

I've never heard of them. I have a couple hundred lenses, been collecting them for almost 50 years. I have Wollensak projection lenses, Pacific Optical lenses from rockets, Bausch lenses from recon cameras. Custom optics made for optical computers. Never heard of Axer. It's hard not to specialize in optical lenses if you are going to make a lens- most lenses are optical. You sure that you did not get ripped off?

Post some pictures of your lens here, and upload some pictures.


----------



## JBrown

Robin, I am sorry to hear that you got ripped off. I know when you make a purchase you want to justify it no matter what,  but this axer lens is a rip no matter what. 

Ive held it in my hand and it's not a quality item. Are you really going to try and say that small piece of glass is better then the canon 70-200 f4 entire lens? Insert any specific high quality lens from nikon or canon for the price range.

For argument sake lets say it is better. A vivatar does the same thing at $15 and you spent $600 plus. Its a scam and a ripoff, there is no way around it. To say otherwise is just plain wrong. Furthermore look at their website and their ancient products listed for thousands of dollars that are inferior to their competition which cost 100s.

If you enjoy it great, but dont pretend it is something that its not.


----------



## BrianV

Lenses

I looked at the site. These lenses are pure crap, auxiliary lenses worth about $20 each. Return the lens and get your money back.

http://www.axerusa.com/video-camera...page=flypage.tpl&product_id=30&category_id=13

$2800 for a digicam that runs about $69 at Walmart.

Where do these scam artists come from?


----------



## Helen B

ROBIN88 said:


> I also purchased this AXER lens & I by chance I came across this chat. Even though I am using my lens & am very happy with it, I was concerned that i also got ripped off. I paid $625.
> 
> So I started to do some research. I have a very good friend who helped me research this type of camera lens. The funny part is that he also found the same type of lenses for $15 or $8. But after further research he found out that the AXER brand lens is a very top market brand. *They specialize in optical lenses*. There components are also used on projectors & more professional style lenses.
> 
> What we also found out is that even though Vivitar is a well known name in Europe. A few years ago they sold their name & the company that bought it uses this name to sell lower quality lenses.There is a HUGE difference between the Vivitar lens & the AXER lens.
> 
> My friend gave me a good comparisson to make me feel better. The same as if you buy a knockoff off Hublot watch for $20 or Maui Jim sunglasses & pay $10 & then  you go to a reputable store for the same item, you will pay about $32,000 for the watch a a few hundred for the sunglasses. but how can you compare a knockoff with the actual thing.
> 
> I would not tell your friend to return her lens. She has bought the higher quality lens & will enjoy it as I do.



Thanks for clearing that up. If they are optical lenses then $6250 would be cheap, never mind $625. Although I can't afford one, I believe that the Holga uses an optical lens, and they are certainly not cheap for what they are.

Just out of interest, how stupid do you think we are?


----------



## tirediron

BrianV said:


> Lenses
> 
> I looked at the site. These lenses are pure crap, auxiliary lenses worth about $20 each. Return the lens and get your money back.
> 
> Pocket Video Camera SPV-300HD
> 
> $2800 for a digicam that runs about $69 at Walmart.
> 
> Where do these scam artists come from?


Good gawd... that 'site can't be serious can it?  People actually pay those prices for that junk?


----------



## tirediron

Helen B said:


> ROBIN88 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I also purchased this AXER lens & I by chance I came across this chat. Even though I am using my lens & am very happy with it, I was concerned that i also got ripped off. I paid $625.
> 
> So I started to do some research. I have a very good friend who helped me research this type of camera lens. The funny part is that he also found the same type of lenses for $15 or $8. But after further research he found out that the AXER brand lens is a very top market brand. *They specialize in optical lenses*. There components are also used on projectors & more professional style lenses.
> 
> What we also found out is that even though Vivitar is a well known name in Europe. A few years ago they sold their name & the company that bought it uses this name to sell lower quality lenses.There is a HUGE difference between the Vivitar lens & the AXER lens.
> 
> My friend gave me a good comparisson to make me feel better. The same as if you buy a knockoff off Hublot watch for $20 or Maui Jim sunglasses & pay $10 & then  you go to a reputable store for the same item, you will pay about $32,000 for the watch a a few hundred for the sunglasses. but how can you compare a knockoff with the actual thing.
> 
> I would not tell your friend to return her lens. She has bought the higher quality lens & will enjoy it as I do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for clearing that up. If they are optical lenses then $6250 would be cheap, never mind $625. Although I can't afford one, I believe that the Holga uses an optical lens, and they are certainly not cheap for what they are.
> 
> Just out of interest, how stupid do you think we are?
Click to expand...


:hail:


----------



## NancyMoranG

I don't know if she has to 'demand' anything at this point. Just go with receipt and return it, as not what she needed right now.
THEN,  get out with your $$$, and then BBB or tv, etc.
if you can go in with her,  but let her handle it, they'll know, you know,and that may be the end of it,so long as she gets her $ first. 
Mom always said, be nice, see what happens, then handle the rest of it.
i think we have a new member of the forum on board!
good luck, Nancy


----------



## Overread

I find it amusing that they have a "Magnetic Series Titanium Lens" 

Also I'm confused why half their lenses are titanium series - is titanium known to improve optical performance?


----------



## ROBIN88

I find it amazing how closed minded you ppl can be. 

I bought my lens in miami, JBrown's friend bought hers in Orlando & I saw someone else who bought theirs in NY.

If these lenses are being sold all over the US at about the same price then it can't be a "scam" as you say.


----------



## Ballistics

ROBIN88 said:


> I find it amazing how closed minded you ppl can be.
> 
> I bought my lens in miami, JBrown's friend bought hers in Orlando & I saw someone else who bought theirs in NY.
> 
> If these lenses are being sold all over the US at about the same price then it can't be a "scam" as you say.



When you say close minded, do you mean educated?

You have 2 posts, JBROWN has 26 posts, and you think people are close minded? This just gets weirder and weirder.  
Do you know how real life works? We live in the age of the internet, none of these things would be new to a forum dedicated to photography with hundreds of professionals that participate.  
Let me guess, this lens is one of the best lenses you've ever owned right?



> If these lenses are being sold all over the US at about the same price then it can't be a "scam" as you say.



You have to be playing stupid. No one can be this naive. I refuse to believe it. 

Here's a common scam of similar nature.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_van_speaker_scam

2 times in 2 different states I was approached by a white van, telling me about this awesome speaker system that was bought but never picked up, and they were looking to unload it for next to nothing. They 
showed me this brand name of speakers that I never heard, and showed me a catalog where it was $3500 but they'd give it up for $400. It sounded fishy so I said I wanted to test them out. The guy huffed and puffed and told me he was in a rush. I said never mind then and he slammed the door and thanked me for wasting his time. 

I got home and googled the company, and this link is what I found in another forum. 

A year later in another state, same thing. White van, extra speaker system *same price*. I said "let me guess, you have a catalog with you to prove it don't you." The guy smirked stupidly, and I told him to take a hike. If you think that this isn't a scam, because the prices are the same, the term "There's a sucker born every minute" is referring to you.

Edit: I'm all sugared up, so I'm cranky


----------



## techniker

So, apparently, because this is happening all over the country it proves that Axer lenses is a legit enterprise? 

A company pops up out of nowhere selling items at a relatively exorbitant price to other items just like it made by reputable manufacturers and some how you are trying to justify the legitamacy based on the fact "it's happening everywhere". 


The price of an item must indicate its quality, right? That's called begging the question; using your argument to prove your argument. It doesn't make sense and you're probably defending a real piece of **** because you're bitter about getting ripped of. How does it feel to be this naive?


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## KmH

ROBIN88 said:


> If these lenses are being sold all over the US at about the same price then it can't be a "scam" as you say.


Your logic is seriously flawed. Lots of scams are conducted nationwide.
With only 2 posts, you are short on credibility. Another hit to your cred is that you dug up a thread that had been dormant for 3 months.

You're not even safe in church - http://wonderwall.msn.com/music/winans-scion-gets-nearly-14-years-in-prison-1737507.story

You know Florida is where organized crime guy's from New York like to hang out when they want to get away from 'work'. Many of those guys start criminal enterprises so the money keeps flowing in even when they are sipping drinks on the beach.

Bernie Madoff ran a nation wide *$$$$$$$ 65 BILLION $$$$$$$* scam for almost 20 years.
Concerns about Madoff's business surfaced as early as 1999. His sons turned him in December of 2008.

Many of the people he scammed were pretty smart people.


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## tirediron

ROBIN88 said:


> I find it amazing how closed minded you ppl can be.
> 
> I bought my lens in miami, JBrown's friend bought hers in Orlando & I saw someone else who bought theirs in NY.
> 
> If these lenses are being sold all over the US at about the same price then it can't be a "scam" as you say.


Noooooooooooo... of course not!  No Internet "scam-artist" has ever tried to sell their crap in more than location at once.


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## tirediron

Ballistics said:


> ROBIN88 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I find it amazing how closed minded you ppl can be.
> 
> I bought my lens in miami, JBrown's friend bought hers in Orlando & I saw someone else who bought theirs in NY.
> 
> If these lenses are being sold all over the US at about the same price then it can't be a "scam" as you say.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When you say close minded, do you mean educated?
> 
> You have 2 posts, JBROWN has 26 posts, and you think people are close minded? This just gets weirder and weirder.
> Do you know how real life works? We live in the age of the internet, none of these things would be new to a forum dedicated to photography with hundreds of professionals that participate.
> Let me guess, this lens is one of the best lenses you've ever owned right?
Click to expand...

Of course there's no chance that he could be any way assocated with the rip-off company is there?


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## BrianV

ROBIN88 said:


> I find it amazing how closed minded you ppl can be.
> 
> I bought my lens in miami, JBrown's friend bought hers in Orlando & I saw someone else who bought theirs in NY.
> 
> If these lenses are being sold all over the US at about the same price then it can't be a "scam" as you say.




You basically exposed your own scam, and will increase the google hits for 

KEYWORDS:

AXER
optical
camera
lens
Scam
rip-off
counterfeit
bad
cheap
refund
phony
poor
Price-Bait
Bait and Switch

Being closed-minded is a good thing if it means not listening to some scam-artist trying to steal your money. I always wondered what Cambridge Camera did after being thrown off of Pop Photo for bait-and-switch scams.


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## digital flower

Not only would I tell her but I would offer to go with her to return it.


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## weepete

Hey I've got a magnifying glass going cheap....only $1000 bucks.....


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## Benco

weepete said:


> Hey I've got a magnifying glass going cheap....only $1000 bucks.....



I'll have it if it's a Nike lense!


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## JBrown

Robin is either in denial or associated with Axer. Either way the revival of this thread just puts it higher on the google returns list. 

Currently this thread is #1 return when you google  Axer lens and hopefully have saved a few people from this scam. Im just afraid if it hurts business to much they will rebrand it and call it something else.

Overall I am pleased that as a community we have helped other photographers avoid this scam.


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## Ballistics

tirediron said:


> Ballistics said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROBIN88 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I find it amazing how closed minded you ppl can be.
> 
> I bought my lens in miami, JBrown's friend bought hers in Orlando & I saw someone else who bought theirs in NY.
> 
> If these lenses are being sold all over the US at about the same price then it can't be a "scam" as you say.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When you say close minded, do you mean educated?
> 
> You have 2 posts, JBROWN has 26 posts, and you think people are close minded? This just gets weirder and weirder.
> Do you know how real life works? We live in the age of the internet, none of these things would be new to a forum dedicated to photography with hundreds of professionals that participate.
> Let me guess, this lens is one of the best lenses you've ever owned right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course there's no chance that he could be any way assocated with the rip-off company is there?
Click to expand...


What?! Of course not! That's preposterous!


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## weepete

Benco said:


> weepete said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey I've got a magnifying glass going cheap....only $1000 bucks.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll have it if it's a Nike lense!
Click to expand...


Sold mate, all you need to do is remove the protective glass cover front and screw it on to a 14mm f2.8l and you will have a great wide angle lens


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## Benco

weepete said:


> Benco said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> weepete said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey I've got a magnifying glass going cheap....only $1000 bucks.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll have it if it's a Nike lense!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sold mate, all you need to do is remove the protective glass cover front and screw it on to a 14mm f2.8l and you will have a great wide angle lens
Click to expand...


Sweet!


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## Justman1020

Benco said:


> weepete said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Benco said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll have it if it's a Nike lense!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sold mate, all you need to do is remove the protective glass cover front and screw it on to a 14mm f2.8l and you will have a great wide angle lens
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sweet!
Click to expand...


While your at it do you need a magnifying lens glass stand....? I have one you can have for the (low low price) of 450$....normally 750$ but I am giving you the friends and family discount. 

On a serious note, axer lens's ftw....wait. No. 
What store in Orlando was this? I want to go visit them next time im there.


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## table1349

Try most of the camera shops on State Road north of Disney World in the Tourist Trap area.


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## o hey tyler

JBrown said:


> Robin is either in denial or associated with Axer. Either way the revival of this thread just puts it higher on the google returns list.
> 
> Currently this thread is #1 return when you google  Axer lens and hopefully have saved a few people from this scam. Im just afraid if it hurts business to much they will rebrand it and call it something else.
> 
> Overall I am pleased that as a community we have helped other photographers avoid this scam.



Did you post the business name where your friend bought there's? I didn't see it anywhere.


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## daggah

Well, at least we know now that if a camera store tries to sell us an Axer lens, that we can promptly leave and not waste our time, so there's that, at least.


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## Strommer

My father just got ripped off by a store in San Francisco yesterday.

AXER Titanium Magenta coated lens worth 20 sold at 475USD+tax. Also a Olympus SZ 14 retailing at 139, can be found at 100, sold at 450USD+tax !
And on the receipt it says they don't accept refunds. My father did not notice that even though he was asked to sign the receipt. So no returns !
I called back and obviously they have no goodwill and just points to the receipt which says that they accept no returns.

This business is setup to scam, checking how much you know about cameras, exploiting the ones who don't know so much, divert from the object you where interested in towards a scam item and charge 1100USD for something worth around 150USD. Then when you come home and find out, you understand why you had to sign the receipt : it states a no refund policy which is worse than the minimum by law if nothing was stated. 

Is this even legal ? 

Here is the review on yelp, and the store name: Frisco Electronics - Fisherman&#39;s Wharf - San Francisco, CA


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## Bulb

Strommer said:


> My father just got ripped off by a store in San Francisco yesterday.
> 
> AXER Titanium Magenta coated lens worth 20 sold at 475USD+tax. Also a Olympus SZ 14 retailing at 139, can be found at 100, sold at 450USD+tax !
> And on the receipt it says they don't accept refunds. My father did not notice that even though he was asked to sign the receipt. So no returns !
> I called back and obviously they have no goodwill and just points to the receipt which says that they accept no returns.
> 
> This business is setup to scam, checking how much you know about cameras, exploiting the ones who don't know so much, divert from the object you where interested in towards a scam item and charge 1100USD for something worth around 150USD. Then when you come home and find out, you understand why you had to sign the receipt : it states a no refund policy which is worse than the minimum by law if nothing was stated.
> 
> Is this even legal ?
> 
> Here is the review on yelp, and the store name: Frisco Electronics - Fisherman's Wharf - San Francisco, CA



I would return it anyway.

They will take it back if you make it clear to them how much bad PR they're about to receive if they don't. 

Facebook, Twitter, online forums (!), better business bureau complaints, scam alert sites, or even walking into the store and telling the other customers your story...

There's no excuse for taking advantage of people who don't know the prices.


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## KmH

Caveat Emptor.

Caveat emptor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## astroNikon

So .. she's happy right now
Until she tries to use it 

Then what ???

Truthfully, you need to contact her immediately and tell her that the lens is not what they sold her
Then let her take it back
If they do not refund her the money then there are other options

I would feel awful if a friend bought a lens and then they thought they didn't know what they were doing and then stopped photography altogether.
Don't let her "dream" continue any more, tell her reality and let her take it back as soon as possible without using it at all.

at least she would know the truth, from a friend.


oh wow .. this is a super old thread ....


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## Bulb

astroNikon said:


> oh wow .. this is a super old thread ....



But it looks like this AXER scam is still going strong. Since its creation, others have come forward with similar stories.

It's good that the thread is still getting some attention. Hopefully some people are doing their research and seeing this thread before they make the decision to buy one. Every page view makes it more likely to be at the top of the search results.


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## vintagesnaps

Reading this I wondered what state laws might be related to overcharging, fraud etc. and a quick search found this.
Protecting Consumers | State of California - Department of Justice - Kamala D. Harris Attorney General 
The store seems to already have an F rating from the BBB and apparently hasn't responded to complaints filed w/the BBB.


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## NancyMoranG

Strommer said:


> My father just got ripped off by a store in San Francisco yesterday.
> 
> AXER Titanium Magenta coated lens worth 20 sold at 475USD+tax. Also a Olympus SZ 14 retailing at 139, can be found at 100, sold at 450USD+tax !
> And on the receipt it says they don't accept refunds. My father did not notice that even though he was asked to sign the receipt. So no returns !
> I called back and obviously they have no goodwill and just points to the receipt which says that they accept no returns.
> 
> This business is setup to scam, checking how much you know about cameras, exploiting the ones who don't know so much, divert from the object you where interested in towards a scam item and charge 1100USD for something worth around 150USD. Then when you come home and find out, you understand why you had to sign the receipt : it states a no refund policy which is worse than the minimum by law if nothing was stated.
> 
> Is this even legal ?
> 
> Here is the review on yelp, and the store name: Frisco Electronics - Fisherman&#39;s Wharf - San Francisco, CA



If it matters, I went to your review and clicked 'useful' information. Maybe it will help, but they will figure on enough people not knowing these reviews first.
stand outside the store with a sign?? 
Sorry for your dad.
Nancy


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## Droid04

I made this account only so that I can post here.

My family went to a trip to New York this week (November 2013). Since we're from Europe, I asked my father to buy a Nikon 35mm f/1.8G lens for about 200 USD. When he returned he was so very proud that he bought me something so much better. He has no ideea about photography, and these sellers from N.Y. (the receipt states 45TH ST GIFTS &GALLERY, but it may have another front name) sold him a AXER TITANIUM lens series 52mm for 700 USD! They made a show for giving him a promotion from the site price that was 949 USD. 
And now, I found this thread ...  of course I won't tell him he got duped. And of course I can't send it back from Europe...
So I hope next time someone searches for AXERUSA.COM or AXER TITANIUM LENS SERIES, they read this thread...


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## Steve5D

A little bit of research goes a long way...


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## Derrel

The whole "AXER" lens thing is kind of an elaborate operation, with web pages maintained with fresh, up-to-date "positive reviews" posted on-line. Like this page 58mm Titanium Lens Series

The "AXER" company also maintains a simple web page that shows the various filter thread models and lists outrageous retail prices, over $900, for these $20, screw in wide-angle adapters. A quick search on my Phone reveals the "AXER" company's official web pages as the first three search results, taking up the entire first screen...followed by a link to this thread. The AXER lens line is designed to scam tourists out of money!


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## Overread

Yeah this is one of those situations where the company has taken steps to try and confuse the internet by flooding it with positive reviews here and there and by getting a high google ranking. Most people only look at the first few results and if the store keeper is also promoting the product well it can't be all bad (most people expect a shop keeper to get some profit out of them - the idea that a brick and mortar store would scam esp an older established store, just doesn't enter peoples minds). 

By targeting the tourists it also works twice as well because they are less likely to demand refunds over international boundaries.


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## robbins.photo

JBrown said:


> So my friend just came over to the house to show me her new lens and was really excited. Last thing I heard she was going to get a Nikon 50 mm 1.4 so I was excited to see her new purchase. She arrived at the house and proceeded to show me a Axer brand lens and explained to me how awesome it was etc etc. Told me how she went into the camera store and the salesman showed her this and gave her a real good deal at $600. Of course she googles the price first and finds the website which shows it as a whopping $1500.
> 
> Long story short I do some researching and realize this lens is nothing more than a re branded $20 wide angle adapter and is one of the most common scams perpetrated in camera stores.
> 
> So the delima is, do I tell her? Right now she is happy with her purchase and has no idea she got screwed. I feel that there is no way the store would refund her money and me telling her would just make her bitter. On the other hand she believes the store has great people working in it and they gave her a great deal. Im torn what to do.
> 
> Main thing is, no matter what do not buy Axer lenses for $100's. I really hope Google web crawler finds this thread so others don't get screwed over.



I guess my first quesiton would be, why is there "no way" the store would refund the money?  You would be downright amazed at how far you can get by going in and politely asking for a refund.  If they refuse and start to give you a lot of hassle, don't scream and yell or jump up and down.  Again, politely insist on the refund, and start using words like "Attorney", "Lawsuit", "Investigative reporting" and of course "Attorney General" as well as "misrepresentation" and of course my personal favorite "fraud" followed up by "felony".

You'd be downright amazed at just how quickly the store's policy on refunds will change.


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## MiFleur

I really don't get it, yes if your father, your friend or your neighbor got ripped off, of course you say it, if nobody tries to stop it, it is like encouraging it, they won't feel good but it is the truth, won't you tell your kid that if they want to eat chicken, an animal has to be killed first?  I know we live in a world of illusion but let's look at the fact, she has been stolen and there is no way in my book that anybody should get away with it.


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## robbins.photo

MiFleur said:


> I really don't get it, yes if your father, your friend or your neighbor got ripped off, of course you say it, if nobody tries to stop it, it is like encouraging it, they won't feel good but it is the truth, won't you tell your kid that if they want to eat chicken, an animal has to be killed first? I know we live in a world of illusion but let's look at the fact, she has been stolen and there is no way in my book that anybody should get away with it.



Not only will I tell my kids it has to be killed first, I hand them an axe and make them do it themselves.. lol

Could just be me...


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## JBrown

Normally I wouldn't resurrect a thread, but pertinent information and I feel this thread serves the photographic community as a whole.

I would like to start by thanking everyone who replied to the thread in one way or another to help get the Google search ranking so high. Its my greatest hope at this time we at least saved a few people from the scam. I've also updated the thread title for more instantaneous recognition of the scam.

About my friend and the final resolution. Obvious one of those cases of buyer beware. For those curious there is no crime being committed as the shop can set any price for any item it wishes and come to a legal arrangement to sell that item. You aren't allowed to sell one thing and replace it with another in a effort to misrepresent. Since the origination of this thread my friend has a Nikon D800 with a 24-70mm that she uses to do lots of portraiture work. She has really come a long way in her photographic journey and her work is good IMO. This incident was but a minor bump in the road for her, but I'm sure for others it would be devastating.

Now onto the more interesting aspect. I have since moved to Orlando myself and have been finding some extra time on my hands which made me think of a project. If you've never been to Orlando there are no shortage of "camera" shops on International Drive (Tourist area near  Disney / Universal Studios) which cater to this scam. Of course these shops are not reputable in any way and negative yelp, google, etc reviews mean nothing, but in the theme of this thread thought it would be interesting to pose as a innocent shopper and record the outcome.

Bump to the top!


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## MRnats

Without ever going into one, I always got this uneasy feeling from all those electronic shops that line the downtown/midtown streets of NYC. I guess I know why now.


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## Vitasloma

Hello!!

Hey, just wanted to tell you all... I have been scammed also, with the Axer lens. I was very naive, I was searching for a sony lens for my alfa 6000. I had of course done my research. But naturally, Axer is an absolutely fake brand, so never heard of it before. So the salesman was very sharp and started selling me the wonders of the lens. Moreover, he sold me 3 bower filters, altogether retail price of approximately $30, for the outrageous amount of $240. Amazing. But then again, I didn't know Bower. I was seeking for Sony, Sigma or Rokinon lenses.

In any case, I went back to my hotel and googled the shop and the Axer lens. Then I googled the filters. When I realized that I had been robbed, went back to the store and asked for refund (that was less than an hour afterwards). Of course no refunds policy. What's worse, in this shop if you want to exchange anything, you need to pay 25% on top for "stocking". Can you believe it????

I told the guy I knew the lens is fake. That it's a scam, and he came back asking me if I had looked into the AXER website. Which I had. But the website is fake. There are no references, there are no contact details no physical address for AXER. No names, no locations. 

Now, this is a nice deal for the shop, right. Because indeed I am a tourist and what's more, I am European, so, what are the chances.

Well, I have put a claim with the Better Business Bureau. I have put a claim with the California Attorney. I have put a claim to the IC3 team (FBI Internet crime/fraud team - as the Axer website is extremely suspicious, being generous). 

I have also made a claim via my credit card company but apparently here in The Netherlands they do not cover these kind of scams (I have noticed in US they normally do). Shame on them.

I got a response from the San Francisco Attorney (which got it assigned via the Cali Attorney), that indeed the shops can set the price they want, and they can have the policy they want as long as they inform the client (needless to say I was not informed beforehand). For the record, the guy even asked for CASH rather than credit, thank God I paid with credit card). They said they cannot do anything unless the product is not working correctly or has been misrepresented. There you go. Of course the product has been misrepresented and is not working correctly!!! The product is **** and the pictures are horrible. How can anyone think I (or anyone else, for that matter) would buy such a piece of garbage for such an amount?? Moreover, this scam is supported by a very questionable website.

I sent them all the information I have, including a link to this thread, and links to the Google + and Yelp reviews of this shop, plus proof that the items value is much less. I told them, I appreciate that there is commercial freedom and that shops can set their own prices, but this is a markup of 1000% over the actual value of the items. I highly doubt this can be defended by "commercial freedom". How can this be legal at all. 

I really do not expect they will give me the money back (notice I paid $615 for a lens, 3 filters and 2 adapter rings which altogether value cannot be higher than $50-$60, being generous). What I told the Attorney's office is, at least, this shop has to go out of business. It made me hate San Francisco, which otherwise it's a lovely city, and it has ruined my Christmas holidays. Not to mention that I have to pay the credit card still :-/. Now thank God that I can "afford" this (so to speak). Other people go there with 5 years' savings. It's so disgusting.

The infamous shop is

BEST CAMERA
217 O'Farrell Street
San Francisco
CA 94102
There is no way of contacting them besides a phone number (which I haven't tried if it works, btw, it's 415 834 0935

Apparently the owner has another two shops in tourist areas as well (Fisherman's Wharf and somewhere else...) and they do the same.

I'll keep you posted with the resolution. 

Ciao!


----------



## Braineack

That's the exact type of store you'd expect to sell you $20 products for $200; they prey on tourists.  I saw that same shop on my SF visit last year and thought of this exact thread.

it's completely legal to sell a product to someone for a price he's voluntarily willing to pay.


----------



## Vitasloma

Yeah, I know that is legal.

However this case is about a scam, not about high prices. They convincing you to buy a product that doesn't work but of course they lie to you. 
The Axer website in itself is a scam.
As said, I don't expect to get any money back, but if more people reported these kind of shops to the authorities potentially they would go out of business.


----------

