# Ranting



## mommy22 (Sep 18, 2010)

Pardon my rant, I've had a glass and a half of wine.

Why is it that it seems that once one gets a DSLR, they decide to"go pro" while their pics look like crap? I suppose one could fix certain things in photoshop or some other post processing technique, but why wouldn't you want to learn how to correctly shoot the subject in the first place?  How is it that some "pros" are on a beginners forum asking straight up simple questions? 

So I get my brothers' pics from his wedding last month and OMG, some are good, but there is nothing special about them except some photoshopping etc...and the lady charged 3500 FREAKING dollars!

I guess I am a perfectionist, if I didn't have a solid understanding of the foundations of photography, I would never sell myself to someone else as being a pro.


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## MohaimenK (Sep 18, 2010)

ohhh pease! go drink another glass and wine and quit whining! 
LOL


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## Scatterbrained (Sep 18, 2010)

DSLRs are like lawmowers, everyone who has one thinks they can make a living with it.:greenpbl:


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## Bitter Jeweler (Sep 18, 2010)

Here we, here we, here we go again!

:roll:


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## mommy22 (Sep 18, 2010)

HAHAHAHAHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA SO FREAKING TRUE!!!!!


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## mommy22 (Sep 18, 2010)

I just may thank you very much


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## Bitter Jeweler (Sep 18, 2010)

He was back, but then disappeared. In the meantime Polyphony was banned for challenging a Mod.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Sep 18, 2010)

Oh no you di-int!


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## white (Sep 19, 2010)

mommy22 said:


> Why is it that it seems that once one gets a DSLR, they decide to"go pro" while their pics look like crap?


It's all about the benjamins, baby.

I personally love seeing people's highly creative watermarks like "A Moment in Time". Guilty pleasure.

Makes my heart sing, it does.


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## reznap (Sep 19, 2010)

white said:


> <snip>



:thumbdown:

Be nice...


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## Bitter Jeweler (Sep 19, 2010)

Why?


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## white (Sep 19, 2010)

me? mean? no wai gice.


:heart:


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## ann (Sep 19, 2010)

erose, don't feel badly, I thought pp had been banned and then saw a few post after that , thinking a mod had to review his comments before allowing them to be seen by the world.

then polyphone appeared and i thought they were the same person, or at least a close clone.

maybe Bitter jewel can start a gossip thread to help keep us all in the know


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## KmH (Sep 19, 2010)

mommy22 said:


> So I get my brothers' pics from his wedding last month and OMG, some are good, but there is nothing special about them except some photoshopping etc...and the lady charged 3500 FREAKING dollars!


Ever hear the term Caveate Emptor......It means Buyer Beware.

More power to the salesmanship of the photographer. :thumbup:

P.T. Barnum, of circus fame said, "There's a sucker born every minute."

There's a sucker born every minute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Derrel (Sep 19, 2010)

There's also the old quote/saying: "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public."


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## Taylor510ce (Sep 19, 2010)

mommy22 said:


> Pardon my rant, I've had a glass and a half of wine.
> 
> Why is it that it seems that once one gets a DSLR, they decide to"go pro" while their pics look like crap? I suppose one could fix certain things in photoshop or some other post processing technique, but why wouldn't you want to learn how to correctly shoot the subject in the first place? How is it that some "pros" are on a beginners forum asking straight up simple questions?
> 
> ...


The photog wasn't aiming to please you, he was aiming to please his client ( whether that client has low expectations and taste, is up for debate ) However, while we are sitting here pissing and moaning about it, that guy is cashing his check and paying his bills. Guess the jokes on us.

Also, "pro" is a reference to being paid, don't confuse it with meaning "extremely skilled"


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## KmH (Sep 19, 2010)

Taylor510ce said:


> Also, "pro" is a reference to being paid, don't confuse it with meaning "extremely skilled"


IMO, and many dictionary definitions, that is exactly backwards.


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## Taylor510ce (Sep 19, 2010)

KmH said:


> Taylor510ce said:
> 
> 
> > Also, "pro" is a reference to being paid, don't confuse it with meaning "extremely skilled"
> ...


 

And you are entitled to your opinion. While many people associate the words professional and amatuer with a level of skill ( because typically that is a measurable difference ) their actual meaning is paid and unpaid. Look at sports for a pretty clear example. I am sure that some dictionaries will list it as such since things are constantly evolving, and since "FO SHIZZLE" is in many dictionaries, but what can ya do.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Sep 19, 2010)

Sports, pretty clear example that the paid sports pros are "extremely skilled".


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## Josh66 (Sep 19, 2010)

Why learn anything when there's money to be made right now?

Time is money!!





:lmao:


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## Blake.Oney (Sep 19, 2010)

*pro·fes·sion·al &#8211;adjective*

following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain: a professional builder.

a person who earns a living in a sport or other occupation frequently engaged in by amateurs: a golf professional. 

Dictionary.com | Find the Meanings and Definitions of Words at Dictionary.com


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## bentcountershaft (Sep 19, 2010)

Despite my saying that I never would, I went pro last week.  I shot a guys bike for a craig's list ad for a case of beer.  I'm sorry.


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## Josh66 (Sep 19, 2010)

Working for beer doesn't count.  You're still good.

What kind of beer was it, lol?


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## bentcountershaft (Sep 19, 2010)

Oh, thank god.  

Regular old Michelob.  Not bad for a change.


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## Derrel (Sep 19, 2010)

KmH said:


> And you are entitled to your opinion. While many people associate the words professional and amatuer with a level of skill ( because typically that is a measurable difference ) their actual meaning is paid and unpaid. Look at sports for a pretty clear example. I am sure that some dictionaries will list it as such since things are constantly evolving, and since "FO SHIZZLE" is in many dictionaries, but what can ya do.



Huh...I looked that phrase up on Urbandictionary.com

"   "fo shizzle ma nizzle" is a bastardization of "fo' sheezy mah neezy" which is a bastardization of "for sure mah *****" which is a bastdardization of "I concur with you whole heartedly my African american brother"  "


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## vtf (Sep 19, 2010)

Every industry has its quality variations. He obviously thought her quality was up to his standards or maybe he has the lower standards.


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## AgentDrex (Sep 19, 2010)

That's hilarious, bartering a photo for some beer.  I guess you really did go pro by apparent definition.  I think I'll stick with being an enthusiast for now.  Soon though I want to over-charge for wedding photos and misrepresent my skill just so I can I have some fiat money.


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## lordfly (Sep 19, 2010)

These kind of threads make me cringe.

I've apparently recently crossed the "friends think my pictures are cool" threshold, and recently I've been getting deluged with friends (and friends of friends, and sisters of friends) asking me to take engagement/kids/wedding/car/etc. pictures. They'll ask me what my "rate" is. I say "free". They say "that's ridiculous!" and insist on giving me money anyway after the shoot.

Is that bad? I don't know. I tell them up front I'm learning, and I hardly consider myself a professional, barely a student in fact, but they don't seem to listen. They just see what I dump on facebook and think I'm some sort of tiny photo god.

Seeing as I'm broke as hell, though, it is very, very hard to turn down cash repeatedly. I think if you're up front about your ability (and realize that what you think is awesome really isn't), it isn't too bad. If you tout yourself as God's gift to photography, though, well, hubris is fun to shoot down.


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## Olympus E300 (Sep 19, 2010)

Derrel said:


> There's also the old quote/saying: "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public."


 

LoL...So true!  :thumbup:


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## cajunbandmom (Sep 19, 2010)

I don't post often because I am not pro and I don't know how much I can say to anyone here.... But how do you become pro? How did you become pro.  I am reading my butt off every second I have.  I practice all time. In fact my 4 year old runs everytime he hears me getting my camera out of the bag crying NO MOM NO MORE PICTURES lol.  I have a friend that I did some work for free and another one I did some work for that gave me one of his shirts he was selling.  I never claim to be pro. I tell anyone that I am not pro but if I practice on them and they really like the work than is it ok to charge a little more for what they buy?  Yes I do have my little watermark. I don't claim that makes me pro.


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## lordfly (Sep 19, 2010)

To some on the forum, pro means spending 40k on equipment and owning a studio.

To me, "pro" means you are making your primary income from it. Everything else is just beer money/hobby/amateur. But what do I know, I shoot for beer money...


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## tnvol (Sep 19, 2010)

This topic can and will be argued to death but I would think that most people equate the word "professional" with high quality or a high level of skill.  I'm in no way busting balls on anyone here getting payed for their pictures, I'm just saying that you can split hairs on this all day long with definitions and such,  but most people expect a higher standard of work when they pay a professional for a service.  I know I do and I wouldn't think many here would be any different.  If someone is getting paid for a skill and that skill sucks, they are in no way a professional in my opinion.


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## Aayria (Sep 19, 2010)

Ok.. not to fuel the fire of a thread I'm sure will take forever to die...

  But here's a question:

Can a person be highly skilled, present themselves and their work with professionalism, but provide their services for free and still be considered a professional?


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## lordfly (Sep 19, 2010)

tnvol said:


> This topic can and will be argued to death but I would think that most people equate the word "professional" with high quality or a high level of skill.  I'm in no way busting balls on anyone here getting payed for their pictures, I'm just saying that you can split hairs on this all day long with definitions and such,  but most people expect a higher standard of work when they pay a professional for a service.  I know I do and I wouldn't think many here would be any different.  If someone is getting paid for a skill and that skill sucks, they are in no way a professional in my opinion.



Yes, but if you're upfront about the quality and your skill level ahead of time, what's the dividing line? What's "proper" for a person to pay for?

You can spend $1.99 for drinking glasses at Walmart, for $4499 for fine crystal hand-made by Japanese Spirit Ninja Monks or whatever. Some people are willing to pay for top-notch quality, and others are willing to pay less because, hey, maybe they're broke and can't afford 5 grand for a "professional" to do their thing, or maybe they can't actually tell the difference (how often do you hear people lamenting in the modern art section of your local museum about how their child can do modern art?).


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## mishele (Sep 19, 2010)

What isn't this the order that everyone does things in........buy DSLR and then book a wedding? I thought that is what everyone does........lol


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## Buckster (Sep 19, 2010)

I've been shooting for about 40 years. I've been shooting SLRs for over 30 of those years, and DSLRs for about 10 years. I've studied and practiced all kinds of different styles, genres, lighting, and so forth, bought and studies and learned from untold thousands of dollars worth of books and videos and courses and gear (most of which I still have) - and I still do all of that all the time; study, practice, buy stuff and shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, sssssshooooooot - because I LOVE IT.

I make a little money with it here and there, by accident and word of mouth. Got a couple of e-stores online that people stumble into on occasion and get a few to several sales through them each month, get contacted by folks who see my stuff on various photo sites like Flickr and Panoramio that want to purchase rights to use my photos as stock for advertising and so on from time to time, get hired to do a portrait once in a while, etc.  But I don't advertise, I don't promote myself, I don't seek out photo jobs or opportunities for pay. I don't much care about that side of it at all, to be honest.

Why? Because I'm not a pro, plain and simple. I'm a photography enthusiast, a hobbyist, I'm in it for the pure enjoyment I get out of it; To have fun with it, nothing more, nothing less. No matter how good someone else thinks my stuff is, no matter how confident I feel about my abilities, no matter how competent I usually am with camera gear, no matter how much money I make on the side with it - I am not a professional photographer. I don't depend on it to pay my bills (and that's a good thing because I don't make enough with it to even pay for the gear I keep buying! LOL!).

And that's all okay with me. 

So, just to set the record straight, not EVERYONE who gets a decent camera thinks they're a pro in a few months.


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## tnvol (Sep 19, 2010)

lordfly said:


> tnvol said:
> 
> 
> > This topic can and will be argued to death but I would think that most people equate the word "professional" with high quality or a high level of skill.  I'm in no way busting balls on anyone here getting payed for their pictures, I'm just saying that you can split hairs on this all day long with definitions and such,  but most people expect a higher standard of work when they pay a professional for a service.  I know I do and I wouldn't think many here would be any different.  If someone is getting paid for a skill and that skill sucks, they are in no way a professional in my opinion.
> ...



I have no clue dude.  I have never sold my work.  That isn't my motivation in photography.  I'm not saying that your work has to be worthy of the cover of National Geographic for you to be able to sell it.  I'm just saying that it should be damn good before you should be able to call yourself a pro.  You can certainly be an amateur photographer that sells pictures.  I'm not saying that shouldn't happen.  I'm just saying that I reserve the word "professional" for work of a higher standard.


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## lordfly (Sep 19, 2010)

I'm not going after you specifically, just quoting the message that got me thinking. I do that a lot.

I would like to stay in "amateur who makes beer money" territory for a long time.


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## white (Sep 19, 2010)

Aayria said:


> Can a person be highly skilled, present themselves and their work with professionalism, but provide their services for free and still be considered a professional?


No. Those people are insane.


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## Aayria (Sep 19, 2010)

white said:


> Aayria said:
> 
> 
> > Can a person be highly skilled, present themselves and their work with professionalism, but provide their services for free and still be considered a professional?
> ...



:lmao:


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## misstwinklytoes (Sep 19, 2010)

This thread reminds me that there's a handful of people that post regularly that make me want to just stay away from this place.  Not everyone who gets a camera thinks there pro... actually there is probably more people here assuming they're trying to go pro than there are people actually claiming to be pro. :er:  All of you out there assuming everyone asking for C&C and putting a watermark on their photograph are trying to be something they're not should really take a step back and chill.  Even if there's people out there charging for photographs that aren't F*cking awesome, they're getting paid regardless.  If their clients are happy who are you to say otherwise?  *shrug*


I think I'll go try to find a thread where the handful of people who generally offer good advice have posted. 

[Please note this post was not directed at anyone specifically, but if it pisses you off it probably applies.]


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## Mustlovedragons (Sep 19, 2010)

lordfly said:


> These kind of threads make me cringe.
> 
> I've apparently recently crossed the "friends think my pictures are cool" threshold, and recently I've been getting deluged with friends (and friends of friends, and sisters of friends) asking me to take engagement/kids/wedding/car/etc. pictures. They'll ask me what my "rate" is. I say "free". They say "that's ridiculous!" and insist on giving me money anyway after the shoot.
> 
> ...


 

YOU SUCK!!! I have just the opposite problem. I have the friends and family who do the "hey, you're a photographer, right? I need...blah". Ok, so I do "blah" and it takes me 30 min to get there, 30 min to set it all up, 30 or more to shoot, then reverse to home and process for size, etc. What do I get out of it when I rush to get it done in 10-24 hours? "Wow, thanks. These are awesome"....and that's about it. Hell, sometimes I don't even get that! (sigh)

After last Thursday's shoot, I told my husband that next time any friend or family member asks me I'm going to say that my camera is broken. I mean it.


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## lordfly (Sep 19, 2010)

Mustlovedragons said:


> lordfly said:
> 
> 
> > These kind of threads make me cringe.
> ...



I'm happy to do it for free because it's experience. I can only take pictures of my sleeping cats and my local downtown so many times before I run out of interesting angles. Being put in slightly uncomfortable situations with a camera is a great learning tool; you have to learn and improvise quickly.

I know the pictures I have on flickr now are going to make me cringe a year or two down the road. Happens to me all the time. But they look good to me now, as best as I can make them with the skills and equipment I have.

Be happy to do it for free, imo. If it turns into a chore, something's wrong.


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## white (Sep 19, 2010)

I know a guy who is a whore for nikon products and makes abysmally crappy photos, but he calls himself a pro and people pay for his services and I think it is a beautiful thing. I seriously do. He has confidence, and makes more money at photography than I do, and has a nice sparkly d3s. 

I'm inclined to believe the sooner you think of yourself as a pro or an artist, and work toward that ideal, the sooner you become a pro/artist.

You have to have thick skin. Some people will not like your work. Big deal. Consider yourself a pro and make money.

(This post isn't directed at anyone specifically, but it actually is, I just don't like conflict.)


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## Taylor510ce (Sep 19, 2010)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> Sports, pretty clear example that the paid sports pros are "extremely skilled".


 
Like I said, thats because in many cases that is the case, however that is not ALWAYS the case. Look at Matt Leinart. Sam Bradford was a better quarterback in College than Leinart was in the NFL, yet Bradford wasn't a Pro, no matter how good he was. But we could argue all day long about it. Its just like the Snapshot vs photo argument. There is the definition of a snapshot, and then there are the people that take it to mean an insult on their pictures. You can make anything mean whatever you want. I am merely saying that the textbook definition is as stated.

Why do you think Arena football is still considered professional? Those guys aren't as good as the guys in the NFL, but they are still pros, because they are playing for money. I bet you when Mike Tyson was fighting amatuer fights, he was better than half the boxers that were pros, but he still wasn't considered a pro fighter until his first prize fight. We can twist it into whatever we want and try to justify it, but that is not the facts. :mrgreen:


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## Sharfy (Sep 19, 2010)

white said:


> I know a guy who is a whore for nikon products and makes abysmally crappy photos, but he calls himself a pro and people pay for his services and I think it is a beautiful thing. I seriously do. He has confidence, and makes more money at photography than I do, and has a nice sparkly d3s.
> 
> I'm inclined to believe the sooner you think of yourself as a pro or an artist, and work toward that ideal, the sooner you become a pro/artist.
> 
> ...


 
dif agree with this!

have a thick skin and your passion and love for what you do will bring you to it!


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## Dominantly (Sep 20, 2010)

While we are all gathered here, I thought I would get some questions out there that have been buggin me.

I am trying to decide between a Nikon and Canon body. I heard that the Nikon bodies were better in general, but their glass is where the difference really shows (Nikkor glass being far superior), is this true?

I really need the help as I need this body to practice with for this wedding I agreed to shoot in November.


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## LCARSx32 (Sep 20, 2010)

Dominantly said:


> While we are all gathered here, I thought I would get some questions out there that have been buggin me.
> 
> I am trying to decide between a Nikon and Canon body. I heard that the Nikon bodies were better in general, but their glass is where the difference really shows (Nikkor glass being far superior), is this true?
> 
> I really need the help as I need this body to practice with for this wedding I agreed to shoot in November.



I wasn't going to reply.  I really wasn't.  But I have to.  That was too good.  :lmao:

Since I've already got the textbox here; I don't see a lot of people here claiming to be "pro".  Watermarks don't equal pro.  I wouldn't even say getting paid equals pro.  Pro is when you stop asking others advice.  When you go past the point of feeling you need others to critique your work.

*EDIT*

Everybody knows you can't go pro unless you rock a Canon.  Nikons are toy cameras.  *poke--poke* :hugs:


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## Blake.Oney (Sep 20, 2010)

Taylor510ce said:


> Bitter Jeweler said:
> 
> 
> > Sports, pretty clear example that the paid sports pros are "extremely skilled".
> ...



Haha. I agree with your pro stance. The snapshot photograph argument is funny. I look it at like this:
Person: "Hey man that photo looks like ass."
Photog: "What?"
Person: "It looks like ass. Not nasty ass. Like nice, hot ass. It's a compliment." 
Photog: "You just said my photo looked like ass."
Person: "Yea, but good ass, not nasty ass."

And on and on and on.


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## lordfly (Sep 20, 2010)

LCARSx32 said:


> Dominantly said:
> 
> 
> > Pro is when you stop asking others advice.  When you go past the point of feeling you need others to critique your work.
> ...


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## misstwinklytoes (Sep 20, 2010)

Dominantly said:


> Pro is when you stop asking others advice.  When you go past the point of feeling you need others to critique your work.



So absolutely no one here is a pro?  Man... asking advice makes you a non-pro.  That's a new one.  I wonder how all those people making a hellacious living and still humble enough to accept feedback and advice feel about that.


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## Boomn4x4 (Sep 20, 2010)

What I have gotten out of this thread:

"Nobody hates a photographer more than another photographer"


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## SecondShot (Sep 20, 2010)

Boomn4x4 said:


> What I have gotten out of this thread:
> 
> "Nobody hates a photographer more than another photographer"



Put simply, yes. 

I'm hating on a few photographers right now, in fact. And others, I admire the hell out of. 

For me, its all about the ego. If you've got one the size of "Wyoming" as someone else mentioned, then yea...F* you. But, if you appear approachable and have some semblance of humility, then you have a new fan. 

In the middle there's a certain amount of gamesmanship that's played or varying levels of confidence, and to a degree that's cool with me. It's just those schoolyard dodgeball queens that get me worked up.


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## misstwinklytoes (Sep 20, 2010)

I'm not really offended, more like amazed at the amount of ... immaturity?  Maybe that's not the word I'm looking for.  If they -are- talking about me, then it's a mistake.  I have no studio in my bedroom, I don't charge for my practicing and I'm not looking at going "pro" anytime in the near future.  Is there something wrong with someone having a studio in a spare room of their house and having a watermark, though?  Does it make them less talented than the guy downtown with a rented studio?

It is a general discussion.  That's my input on it. :er:


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## Gaerek (Sep 20, 2010)

misstwinklytoes said:


> Is there something wrong with someone having a studio in a spare room of their house and having a watermark, though? Does it make them less talented than the guy downtown with a rented studio?


 
Before KP007 replies with more of his drivel (haven't actually seen a helpful post from him yet), the answer to both of your questions is no. I'm a complete hobbyist, and I plan on putting in a studio at some point. I just want to be able to use lights in a controlled setting. I would be surprised if I ever sold a single photograph in my lifetime. There's nothing wrong with a watermark. If you want to use one, there's no reason you shouldn't. KP007 is just an arrogant you-know-what who thinks he know's better.


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## Scatterbrained (Sep 20, 2010)

KP007 said:


> .....
> 
> I think most of the folks on this thread are talking about MWAC's and such, with watermark logos and studios in the spare bedroom.
> I don't know why you seem so offended and ready to pounce on anyone who shares the same views as the OP.
> ...


I'm a "GWC" and I have a studio in a spare bedroom. Does this mean I'm just a cool watermark away from going pro? YEAH BABY! Anyone wanna help me with my watermark, I need to go pro NOW!  Come on people, I've already got four weddings booked and I just _know_ they'll be that much more impressed If I have a cool watermark for the proofs. Maybe I can even charge them!:mrgreen:


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## Gaerek (Sep 20, 2010)

Scatterbrained said:


> KP007 said:
> 
> 
> > .....
> ...


 
Ask KP007. Apparently he knows what going pro means. :lmao:


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## LCARSx32 (Sep 20, 2010)

Hmmm.  Let's try this again.  I really didn't word that well.  I wasn't trying to say Pros shouldn't ask for advice once in a while.  They should.  And they should be willing to help others who are new.  What I was saying was I agree with the side of the argument that says pro is skill rather than being paid.  Some people call themselves "Professionals", but they clearly are not.

Watermarks simply say "I'm proud of my images and I want people to know I made them."  If you draw something and sign your name in the corner, are you saying "I'm a professional sketch artist now"?  No.  You're saying "I'm proud of my work."  It also means "I'm posting on the interwebs and don't want people to steal my picture to use in their ads."

At the same time, I don't think accepting some form of compensation, be it beer or cash, makes you a pro either.  I could start charging for weddings today, but I wouldn't be a pro.  I could _pretend_ to be, but I wouldn't _actually_ be a pro.  

I don't know.  It's hard to explain.  I think I'll stop here.  I don't want to piss one side of the argument or the other off.  I respect most of you hear, and don't want a stupid debate like this to ruin that.  

Can't we all just get along?


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## ann (Sep 20, 2010)

ok , i give what is MWAC and a GWC

little did i know i would need a handguide to read opinions:lmao:


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## Taylor510ce (Sep 20, 2010)

So what specifically does MWAC stand for? I get the jist, but not sure what the acronym stands for.


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## tnvol (Sep 20, 2010)

I had to google them myself.  lol   Mom With A Camera and Guy With A Camera.  I'm a GWC.


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## Taylor510ce (Sep 20, 2010)

KP007 said:


> misstwinklytoes said:
> 
> 
> > Dominantly said:
> ...





misstwinklytoes said:


> I'm not really offended, more like amazed at the amount of ... immaturity?  Maybe that's not the word I'm looking for.  If they -are- talking about me, then it's a mistake.  I have no studio in my bedroom, I don't charge for my practicing and I'm not looking at going "pro" anytime in the near future.  Is there something wrong with someone having a studio in a spare room of their house and having a watermark, though?  Does it make them less talented than the guy downtown with a rented studio?
> 
> It is a general discussion.  That's my input on it. :er:


 ohhhhh...catfight....** grabs coolwhip and 7D**   best use of 8fps I ever did see.



Gaerek said:


> misstwinklytoes said:
> 
> 
> > Is there something wrong with someone having a studio in a spare room of their house and having a watermark, though? Does it make them less talented than the guy downtown with a rented studio?
> ...



KP007 is a chick.....see above.


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## Taylor510ce (Sep 20, 2010)

On a slightly less serious note than catfights....who cares about a watermark? Why does it stir up so much  jealous and hatred? Most artists sign their paintings whether they are seasoned pros or not. Whats wrong with showing off your work or branding your own stuff? Most entrepeneurs ( spelling )  had a brand long before there were able to make millions off of it. Thats where it all starts. Get over yourselves. Talk about egos the size of Wyoming.


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## Overread (Sep 20, 2010)

Photography is full of people who dream of turning pro but don't have the self confidence; skills or set a very high bar for their work before they will go pro - so they fill with malice when they see people who's works they consider less than their own, either going pro or watermarking like a pro


*flees from the thread*


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## Village Idiot (Sep 20, 2010)

mommy22 said:


> Pardon my rant, I've had a glass and a half of wine.
> 
> Why is it that it seems that once one gets a DSLR, they decide to"go pro" while their pics look like crap? I suppose one could fix certain things in photoshop or some other post processing technique, but why wouldn't you want to learn how to correctly shoot the subject in the first place? How is it that some "pros" are on a beginners forum asking straight up simple questions?
> 
> ...


 
This rant is played like hairweaves and troll dolls.


----------



## eilla05 (Sep 20, 2010)

Not saying I agree or disagree with the OP but I am tired of opening up the forum every couple of days and seeing the same rant thread about the same crap. I think this is the 4th or 5th thread in the last 2 weeks (if that long) ranting about people thinking their pros after having a camera 2 days. 

My comment about watermarks (because I USE them) is that I only use them just so someone doesn't steal images from the site to use for whatever purpose they want. I have posted images of my friends and their children and I would hate for those images to be plastered somewhere without my knowledge, even though I am aware there are ways around watermarks. 

On another note why cant we all just get along and learn and support each other? Is that not what this forum is for to begin with?


----------



## Bitter Jeweler (Sep 20, 2010)

Village Idiot said:


> This rant is played like hairweaves and troll dolls.


----------



## Scatterbrained (Sep 20, 2010)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> Village Idiot said:
> 
> 
> > This rant is played like hairweaves and troll dolls.


Please tell me that's real and not a MAD TV skit. :lmao:


----------



## Scatterbrained (Sep 20, 2010)

ann said:


> ok , i give what is MWAC and a GWC
> 
> little did i know i would need a handguide to read opinions:lmao:


They are generally derogatory terms for people (Men or women) who just buy a DSLR and go out shooting in auto, or just a way to reference someone who has a DSLR but isn't interested in photography as a hobby, they just wanted "nicer pictures".


----------



## mostly sunny (Sep 20, 2010)

I have a friend that takes pictures and she is really good.  She charges for his time and if you want pictures- She takes way better than me and in the event I want a cheap photo of me and my kids, I would have her do them for me.


----------



## ann (Sep 20, 2010)

thank you all for an guide to the socialnet . i really mean it. 

i am much too old for all this shorthand.

ps. i hate watermarks that are so large they interfer with the vision of the image.


----------



## Gaerek (Sep 20, 2010)

Taylor510ce said:


> Gaerek said:
> 
> 
> > misstwinklytoes said:
> ...



My mistake. Her replies were definitely *NOT* very ladylike. :lmao:


----------



## Fedaykin (Sep 20, 2010)

I love reading these threads.


----------



## KmH (Sep 20, 2010)

Aayria said:


> Ok.. not to fuel the fire of a thread I'm sure will take forever to die...
> 
> But here's a question:
> 
> Can a person be highly skilled, present themselves and their work with professionalism, but provide their services for free and still be considered a professional?


Absolutely!

Because professional means highly skilled, being an expert at what you do.


----------



## Bitter Jeweler (Sep 20, 2010)

KmH said:


> Aayria said:
> 
> 
> > Ok.. not to fuel the fire of a thread I'm sure will take forever to die...
> ...


I am so confused!
I thought it meant you get paid to do something with no regard to skill.


----------



## supraman215 (Sep 20, 2010)

Fedaykin said:


> I love reading these threads.




HA! I was able to finally show some self restraint and not read this thread! (just the last 5 posts and it told me everything I needed to know) I'm going to pat myself on the back now. 

I hope I can be an inspiration to others!


----------



## AgentDrex (Sep 20, 2010)

You are an inspirational supraman!


----------



## bentcountershaft (Sep 20, 2010)

Village Idiot said:


> This rant is played like hairweaves and troll dolls.




The troll dolls are lining up to come for you.


----------



## SrBiscuit (Sep 20, 2010)

hey did anyone catch the premiere of boardwalk empire last night?
pretty badass!
it's great to have a new sunday show while true blood is off season. :thumbup:


----------



## mishele (Sep 20, 2010)

SrBiscuit said:


> hey did anyone catch the premiere of boardwalk empire last night?
> pretty badass!
> it's great to have a new sunday show while true blood is off season. :thumbup:



Pretty cool show.....it started a little slow last night but I guess they had to set up the story.:thumbup:


----------



## SrBiscuit (Sep 20, 2010)

mishele said:


> SrBiscuit said:
> 
> 
> > hey did anyone catch the premiere of boardwalk empire last night?
> ...


 
i agree...but i think they really had to set the stage for whats to come.
im confident that the scorsese/buscemi combo will really deliver.

"what, are they gonna outlaw cigarettes next?"...that line made me chuckle.


----------



## Derrel (Sep 20, 2010)

lordfly said:


> These kind of threads make me cringe.
> 
> I've apparently recently crossed the "friends think my pictures are cool" threshold, and recently I've been getting deluged with friends (and friends of friends, and sisters of friends) asking me to take engagement/kids/wedding/car/etc. pictures. They'll ask me what my "rate" is. I say "free". They say "that's ridiculous!" and insist on giving me money anyway after the shoot.
> 
> ...



I hope you take this the right way, okay? "Dude--wake up! When somebody asks what your "rate" is, they expect a numerical value between 25 and 200, followed by the American word "bucks", or "dollars"...got it???"

"Yeesh....man...come to your senses!!! People are trying to engage you in what is commonly known as a business relationship. If you can utter the word "fifty" and then the word "bucks", you'll go from being an unpayed shooter and cross over into the world of payed to shoot shooters!"

After a while you'll begin saying the word, "seventy-five", and before long "one hundred" and then before you know it "one hundred and fifty",and people will be saying, "Okay, great! When can we schedule the shoot?"

If they ask about your "rate" and the word "wedding" is uttered, throw out the words, "five hundred and seventy-five dollars, because it takes three or four days to process so many RAW files into perfect pictures." See what happens. Don't be that guy who works for nothing...especially when people are ASKING YOU for your rate. Give them an answer!


----------



## LCARSx32 (Sep 20, 2010)

And then he'll be a pro.


----------



## Derrel (Sep 20, 2010)

LCARSx32 said:


> And then he'll be a pro.



Well, let's say he'll have joined the ranks of people who are payed money in exchange for making photographs...

The key is people are asking him for a rate quote, meaning they wish to transact business!!!!!!!!!


----------



## sam_justice (Sep 20, 2010)

The thing I find most amusing is someone will post an incredibly well thought out, constructed and processed composition which people on these forums would drool over. Whilst the general will be "meh" and then someone learning about depth of field for the first time will take a picture of a flower with some bokeh, use a free to download image processor to make it look "retro" and everyone goes crazy and thinks they're a creative genius.


----------



## Bitter Jeweler (Sep 20, 2010)

sam_justice said:


> The thing I find most amusing is someone will post an incredibly well thought out, constructed and processed composition which people on these forums would drool over. Whilst the general will be "meh" and then someone learning about depth of field for the first time will take a picture of a flower with some bokeh, use a free to download image processor to make it look "retro" and everyone goes crazy and thinks they're a creative genius.


 
Examples?


----------



## Robin Usagani (Sep 20, 2010)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> Examples?


X2
:thumbup:

Always take CCs with a grain of salt.  But for the most part, the negative comments are dead on.  Some people juse deliver the negative CCs nicer than the other LOL.


----------



## Bitter Jeweler (Sep 20, 2010)

My posts are Sugar-Free.


----------



## Robin Usagani (Sep 20, 2010)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> My posts are Sugar-Free.


 
I dont know.. popcorns will eventually turn into sugar when you eat it


----------



## mishele (Sep 20, 2010)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> sam_justice said:
> 
> 
> > The thing I find most amusing is someone will post an incredibly well thought out, constructed and processed composition which people on these forums would drool over. Whilst the general will be "meh" and then someone learning about depth of field for the first time will take a picture of a flower with some bokeh, use a free to download image processor to make it look "retro" and everyone goes crazy and thinks they're a creative genius.
> ...



You mean like this.........






or this...


----------



## Dominantly (Sep 20, 2010)

lordfly said:


> LCARSx32 said:
> 
> 
> > Dominantly said:
> ...


----------



## Dominantly (Sep 20, 2010)

Sweet blur. Way to accentuate the blur. It's like there wants to be clarity, but then blur comes in and kicks clarity in the face.


----------



## bentcountershaft (Sep 20, 2010)

mishele said:


>



That's like flower porn in an up skirt kind of way.  Very nice.


----------



## lordfly (Sep 20, 2010)

> Dominantly said:
> 
> 
> > [q
> ...



[ / quote[
[/q uote]


> > > New to intertrons. How I shot web?


----------



## lordfly (Sep 20, 2010)

Derrel said:


> LCARSx32 said:
> 
> 
> > And then he'll be a pro.
> ...



Yes, I had the same issue when I was doing graphic design a few years back. When I'm starting out on something, I'm loathe to be "the guy" that charges a thousand quatloos for subpar work. I hated watching fellow contractors fleece companies for thousands while doing essentially nothing.

I always undershoot until I'm very confident of my abilities. I'm not confident shooting yet, thus the undershoot.

Yeah, it's easy to slick your hair back and give a killer sales promotion and make bank. Maybe I could charge a lot? I don't know. I know I wouldn't be able to sleep at night afterwards if I knew I couldn't deliver.


----------



## misstwinklytoes (Sep 20, 2010)

It amazes me lately that the entire Beginners forum has become a Pro vs. MWAC forum.... Like every... other... thread...  Wow, some of you guys have some issues.  Can't we just get back to what it was like 2 weeks ago?


----------



## LCARSx32 (Sep 20, 2010)

+100

It is a beginner's forum after all.


----------



## JasonLambert (Sep 20, 2010)

Do you think if I started a thread about clarity and is Nikon or Canon better then this thread would die?















Canon is better btw....


----------



## Sharfy (Sep 20, 2010)

I dont want to join in this thread because its called ranting but



LCARSx32 said:


> +100
> 
> It is a beginner's forum after all.


 
Your right, and a sometimes a messy thread starts (like mine) lol.....

and we are learning from some people (35% of memebers "pro's in attitude and giving advices)

Can I ask something for all:

This forum is made for exchanging ideas and helping people who are passionate and willing to learn photography, Am I right?

So when someone is posting in Photography Beginners' Forum & Photo Gallery

You can't expect for a high quality images!

and for newbies like me ACCEPT those feedback because your asking for different people around the net when you post for C&C! Learn how to filter helpful opinions for your improvement!

Make a comment if you like and want to help 

and

ignore a thread if you think you will just get mad and annoyed!

Life is beautiful.....why waste time..... be productive and help others if your blessed with knowledge and capabilities 

eacesign: :love: :smileys:


----------



## Village Idiot (Sep 21, 2010)

Imma por. Buy mai foto of mai meat!


----------



## SrBiscuit (Sep 21, 2010)

meaty.


----------



## Village Idiot (Sep 21, 2010)

SrBiscuit said:


> meaty.


 
ldman:

Eh heh...heh heh...he he heh...eh...

Wing meat!


----------



## AgentDrex (Sep 21, 2010)

Imma poor too, givva me some meata for free, eh?


----------



## SrBiscuit (Sep 21, 2010)

****ing wing meat is so tender.

so...****ing...tender.


----------



## Village Idiot (Sep 21, 2010)

AgentDrex said:


> Imma poor too, givva me some meata for free, eh?


 
No. No, I don't see that happening.


----------



## Taylor510ce (Sep 21, 2010)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> KmH said:
> 
> 
> > Aayria said:
> ...



**pats bitter on the head** it can mean whatever you want it to mean lil fella 
:lmao:


----------



## SrBiscuit (Sep 21, 2010)

yeah you gots to pay to get V's girthy meat.


----------



## Aayria (Sep 21, 2010)

KmH said:


> Aayria said:
> 
> 
> > Ok.. not to fuel the fire of a thread I'm sure will take forever to die...
> ...



  ooo I missed that post somewhere between the meat and the random you-tube songs!  ...or was that the other thread?

   I concur with KmH!


----------



## Village Idiot (Sep 21, 2010)

SrBiscuit said:


> yeah you gots to pay to get V's girthy meat.


 
You make me sound like a hooker.


----------



## SrBiscuit (Sep 21, 2010)

im yo pimp, *****.
you got my money?


----------



## Village Idiot (Sep 21, 2010)

SrBiscuit said:


> im yo pimp, *****.
> you got my money?


  :er:


----------



## Taylor510ce (Sep 21, 2010)

KmH said:


> Because professional means highly skilled, being an expert at what you do.



You are a very knowledgeable person in terms of photography, so I mean no disrespect by saying this, but you are really distorting the facts. You are twisting it to your own meaning. If you have never been paid for your services, you are not a pro. Plain and simple. You can conduct yourself in a professional manner ( meaning LIKE a pro which would be in reference to acting like someone whos livelihood rests on their reputation, abilities and integrity ) but until you get paid, you are a very skilled amatuer. That is why skill level and character typically are synonymous with being labeled professional, because at that point its not just for fun, you either perform or your business suffers. You act like a jerk, your business suffers. 

Furthermore, if your definition were true, it just perpetuates the confusion that started this thread. Who would decide when you were skilled enough to call yourself a pro? Some jury of photographic elders? You would have MORE photogs assuming they were pro at that point, not knowing if they are or arent. It wouldnt make sense.  Its not logical.


----------



## Taylor510ce (Sep 21, 2010)

Also, to further illustrate the point, if someone asks you  " what is your profession" would you say your dayjob, or would you say photographer? If you answered "photographer" and had never been paid for it, you would be out of touch with reality. Sure at any point you could do charity work for free. If my buddy who is a pro mason builds me a brick wall for free, he is still a pro.


----------



## Neil S. (Sep 21, 2010)

There is one of these threads like every week now...


----------



## Neil S. (Sep 21, 2010)

"Using L lenses does not make me an elitist. It just makes my pictures better than yours.  "

LOL


----------



## CNCO (Sep 21, 2010)

I agree mommy! Once someone buys all this gear it doesnt mean anything. If someone buys a lot of gear and acts as if they know what they are talking about - true poser. 

On the other side it could be someone with a new hobby or passion trying to learn on a forum instead of taking a class at a local college.


----------



## SrBiscuit (Sep 21, 2010)

Village Idiot said:


> SrBiscuit said:
> 
> 
> > im yo pimp, *****.
> ...


 

alright alright.
keep the money.
and sorry i called you my *****.:hugs:


----------



## pgriz (Sep 21, 2010)

Ya know, that&#8217;s the problem with the English language &#8211; a single word carries multiple meanings, the context determining the meaning meant.  Take things out of context, and now you can impose whatever context your mind wants to.  So&#8230;

Dictionary.com lists 13 meanings under &#8220;Professional&#8221;.  Two of these talk about earning money; two also talk about being &#8220;expert&#8221; or &#8220;knowledgeable (consultant/trainer)&#8221;.  So, one can be a &#8220;professional&#8221; in the sense of earning money, but not necessarily being good at it.  AND, one can be a &#8220;Profession&#8221; in the sense of being very good at something but not necessarily earning money at it.  However, ideally a &#8220;professional&#8221; should be good at it as well as earning money.

When it comes to earning money, there are various levels as well:  &#8220;beer money&#8221;, &#8220;supplemental income&#8221;, &#8220;primary income&#8221; and &#8220;profitable enterprise&#8221;.  The level of money-making depends on marketing, selling (the art of making a ridiculous price appear reasonable), cost-control, execution, and post-sale support.  These are the realm of the business-person, and unfortunately often the technical skill set of the practitioner (photographer, plumber, personal trainer, financial advisor, etc.) is overshadowed by other attributes.  Therefore, calling someone a &#8220;professional photographer&#8221; tells me nothing other than they made some money at it.

Given that the market for any service is usually woefully ignorant about the service, the standards, and what is involved, (if you doubt this, think about the &#8220;dreamy&#8221; photographs that some wedding party is gushing over, some expensive but cheaply-built home that the buyers think will appreciate 100% per year, some &#8220;investments&#8221; that appear almost too good to be true, and TV-order knives that will stay sharp after sawing through industrial I-beams&#8230.  So just because someone sold something to someone else&#8230; doesn&#8217;t mean it&#8217;s good, or worth it.  

So much for being good just because you got someone to pay for it. 

Moving right along to the other meaning, where someone is a &#8220;professional&#8221; because of their knowledge, ability and results, doesn&#8217;t mean that they need to be making money at that activity to be called &#8220;professional&#8221;.

In the ideal world both meanings would reside in the same person.  In the real world, maybe yes, and maybe no.  Caveat emptor.


----------



## Taylor510ce (Sep 21, 2010)

pgriz said:


> doesnt mean that they need to be making money at that activity to be called professional.
> 
> In the ideal world both meanings would reside in the same person.  In the real world, maybe yes, and maybe no.  Caveat emptor.



They dont need to be paid in order to exude professionalism, but if they want to accurately call themselves a photographic professional, they do. Whether its working for jcpenney photo studio, national geo, or shooting weddings. Skill is not the difference between PROFESSION and HOBBY, COLD HARD CASH IS.

I chose this quote because I want to challenge anyone who supports this theory to find me ONE example of this in the real world. I mean where a large amount of people consider a person a professional who has never gotten paid from their profession and are not aspiring to ( ie. Business owner who has yet to make his first profit.). I have listed several of factual, real world examples, so either put up or shutup. I will list another just for good measure. A housewife bakes pies at home for family gatherings. This is a hobby, a labor of love if you will. She takes that SAME exact pie and skills, and sells them mail order, or opens a shop to sell them, and she is now a professional pie maker/baker etc. . Keep in mind " I consider him professional" and " I consider him A professional" are two different things. That "A" can really mess you up.


----------



## Gaerek (Sep 21, 2010)

Taylor510ce said:


> pgriz said:
> 
> 
> > doesnt mean that they need to be making money at that activity to be called professional.
> ...


 
There's a chance you've missed what he's trying to say. Maybe you didn't. This is a debate over semantics. When someone says, "He's a professional basketball player," the first thing most people think of is, "Wow, he must be really good!" Not, "He makes money playing a sport!" Yes, he makes money playing basketball. Yes, he is good at it. The term invokes images of both.

Now, I tend to agree with you, that a professional, in the strictest sense, is someone who is paid to do whatever he's a professional at. BUT, for most people, the term professional invokes images of skill, not money. I do agree, there are plenty of examples where a professional has subpar skills, and there's few, if any, 'professionals' who make no money doing what they do. But this is all semantics. Because of how our language works, we have no word for people who are very good, but don't make money doing what they do. The word amateur is inadequate because it simply means, "does not make money doing this." In this case, the word professional, although not perfect, at least invokes the image of someone with skill. Until we have a better word for it, professional might just be the right word for the job.

I think I'm at the point of rambling now, but I hope it all makes sense. Basically, this is an argument over semantics. The word means both, and can (and will!) be used interchangably with regards to skill and getting paid.


----------



## Taylor510ce (Sep 21, 2010)

Gaerek said:


> Taylor510ce said:
> 
> 
> > pgriz said:
> ...



I completely understand that people interpret the meaning diferently. My main reason for pushing it, is because of the OP. I am showing that THIS is why its acceptable for them to call themselves a professional. Whether you like their skills or not. In its simplest form of the definition, them being paid would make them a professional. We can debate all day about whether or not they are acting professional or not, but they are still a pro, whether its a very crappy one or not.


----------



## o hey tyler (Sep 21, 2010)

Listen to Taylor, everyone. He's obviously the absolute authority on professionalism. 

Obviously.


----------



## Taylor510ce (Sep 21, 2010)

O hey tyler, I am sure you are here taking cowardly cheap shots, but you are ignored, so enjoy talking to yourself. Have a lovely day, cool guy.


----------



## Bitter Jeweler (Sep 21, 2010)

o hey tyler said:


> Listen to Taylor, everyone. He's obviously the absolute authority on professionalism.
> 
> Obviously.


 


Taylor510ce said:


> O hey tyler, I am sure you are here taking cowardly cheap shots, but you are ignored, so enjoy talking to yourself. Have a lovely day, cool guy.


 
:lmao:


----------



## o hey tyler (Sep 21, 2010)

Obviously.


----------



## Warren Peace (Sep 21, 2010)

misstwinklytoes said:


> It amazes me lately that the entire Beginners forum has become a Pro vs. MWAC forum.... Like every... other... thread... Wow, some of you guys have some issues. Can't we just get back to what it was like 2 weeks ago?


   It is cause Pros are bullies   The way I see it, is, if they are pro, wtf are they doing playing on forums.  
 I had a guy, who I assume was a pro with the ammount of equipment attached to his body, come up to me while shooting in my town.(4 cameras and a bag off accesories)  We had a little summer fair here, and this guy started on to me about shooting with my Canon XT, and 200mm lens.  I wont get into the conversation, but he went on about all this techincal stuff I had no idea what he was talking about.  It was like he was trying to impress me with his knowledge  of his camera and none of it was related to what we were shooting, but what we were shooting with.  Im sorry I can not afford a nicer camera or lens, and Im sorry I dont want to be a pro.  I was having fun with my kids and along came this guy.  I think he needs friends. 
  Isnt there a pro section on this forum they can go stroke each other in?


----------



## Arch (Sep 21, 2010)

I know this is the internet and this next comment usually goes to waste but, well i'll say it anyways....

'please don't argue.... pretty please'

There i said it.


----------



## Taylor510ce (Sep 21, 2010)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> o hey tyler said:
> 
> 
> > Listen to Taylor, everyone. He's obviously the absolute authority on professionalism.
> ...



Sunavabitch :lmao:

Thats alright, not gonna waste my time on the ball-less wonder. If I get into it with him, the trolls win.


----------



## o hey tyler (Sep 21, 2010)

Currently lolling ITT.


----------



## AgentDrex (Sep 21, 2010)

Yeah, it has totally turned me off to the term "pro", I think I'll stick with being a skilled photo enthusiast...being a "pro" doesn't sound all that interesting anymore...


----------



## bentcountershaft (Sep 21, 2010)

The world is full of pros.  Pro accountants for example.  I wonder if they get calculator endorsement deals.


----------



## mostly sunny (Sep 22, 2010)

Dominantly said:


> While we are all gathered here, I thought I would get some questions out there that have been buggin me.
> 
> I am trying to decide between a Nikon and Canon body. I heard that the Nikon bodies were better in general, but their glass is where the difference really shows (Nikkor glass being far superior), is this true?
> 
> I really need the help as I need this body to practice with for this wedding I agreed to shoot in November.




I have a Canon I can let you use for the shoot. No need to buy before you get to really try one...

At the wedding, perhaps I can tag along. So I can learn how to use that darn thing..:blushing:


----------



## Dominantly (Sep 22, 2010)

Aww, thanks doll.


----------



## Scatterbrained (Sep 22, 2010)

bentcountershaft said:


> The world is full of pros.  Pro accountants for example.  I wonder if they get calculator endorsement deals.


No, but we get free pocket protectors and excel apps!:mrgreen:


----------



## rmpbklyn (Sep 22, 2010)

I agree to a certain degree.

There are cases where you just got to get 'the photo', by phone, or party camera, then do the editing... This is in the case, you did not carry the pounds of equipment, did not scope the spot, get the lighting timing correctly etc. etc.

However, they should not depend on editing  their pics , then  think that makes them a pro.....  There are tons of graphic designers... 

It's true they should increase their photography skills. If you see some of the best folks like ansel adams, he did editing, not graphic but photo/lab techniques. However, this does not  apply with digital cameras ...


----------



## LCARSx32 (Sep 22, 2010)

Scatterbrained said:


> bentcountershaft said:
> 
> 
> > The world is full of pros.  Pro accountants for example.  I wonder if they get calculator endorsement deals.
> ...



NNNNOOOOOO!  You weren't supposed to bring it back to life!   It was dead!  Gone!  

j/k 

First I make the mistake of posting in this thread... Then I post a link to it.  I'm just full of good decisions.


----------



## rmpbklyn (Sep 22, 2010)

bentcountershaft said:


> mishele said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...




love that quote!!!! 





Sharfy said:


> I dont want to join in this thread because its called ranting but
> 
> ..
> 
> ...



people are allowed opinions. if people want to just browse photos they can look at online galleries rather than forums....


----------



## Bitter Jeweler (Sep 22, 2010)

rmpbklyn said:


> However, *they should not depend on editing their pics* , then think that makes them a pro..... There are tons of graphic designers...
> 
> It's true they should increase their photography skills. If you see some of the best folks like ansel adams, *he did editing , not graphic but photo/lab techniques*. However, *this does not apply with digital cameras* ...


 
*Hmmm...*


*Editing (post processing) is editing, no matter how you slice and dice it.*


*Really? How so?*


----------



## rmpbklyn (Sep 22, 2010)

white said:


> ...
> I'm inclined to believe the sooner you think of yourself as a pro or an artist, and work toward that ideal, the sooner you become a pro/artist.
> 
> You have to have thick skin. Some people will not like your work. Big deal. Consider yourself a pro and make money.
> ...



I would not call myself a pro until I was able to quit my job and live full time on that means that would pay the bills.  when people ask what's your profession ?  they are not asking about your hobby.

It's similar the people at karaoke bars, they are not professional singers. Those in a band that get hired are professional. They like to sing, they are maybe good , maybe just as good as a professional. 

Don't equate good photographer with professional.  It's good to set high expectations. But becoming a pro is just like music artists, many times it just luck.




LCARSx32 said:


> ....  Pro is when you stop asking others advice.  When you go past the point of feeling you need others to critique your work.



hmmmm, but they do move on to show their work and will get critique.




cajunbandmom said:


> ....  I have a friend that I did some work for free and another one I did some work for that gave me one of his shirts he was selling.  I never claim to be pro. I tell anyone that I am not pro but if I practice on them and they really like the work than is it ok to charge a little more for what they buy?  Yes I do have my little watermark. I don't claim that makes me pro.



Make it known to them 'this one' is free and give a card. There is nothing wrong with volunteering your work because it will give you exposure.




KmH said:


> Taylor510ce said:
> 
> 
> > Also, "pro" is a reference to being paid, don't confuse it with meaning "extremely skilled"
> ...



I think if one can answer what is your  profession or what do do as a living ? and you can answer as such....




Taylor510ce said:


> mommy22 said:
> 
> 
> > Pardon my rant, I've had a glass and a half of wine.
> ...


simply put!!!!!  good


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## LokiZ (Sep 22, 2010)

Sheesh! ~ Egg on my face ~ :greenpbl:

Here I thought your pro status was measured not by whether or not you make money from photography, not by what skill level you or others feel your work displays...

... but rather by how closely you follow the teachings of all knowing Ken Rockwell!

Silly me!

Umm you do know I am joking right?


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