# Landscapes and Custom White Balance



## ladshead (Oct 1, 2009)

I'm trying to get my head around a problem I am experiencing when using custom white balance for landscapes.  

When I use custom white balance as opposed to automatic, all of my photographs have a yellow cast.  I know that this can be removed in post processing but I want to get it right first time.

I have only been using a white piece of paper and have a Lastolite grey balance card in the post, assuming that it will make my balance more accurate.

How do professional digital landscape photographers calculate white balance?

Your help and advice would be massively appreciated.


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## skieur (Oct 1, 2009)

This sounds like a dumb question but: Why be concerned with custom white balance?

A lot of landscapes are shot with warming polarizers, magenta filters and enhancement filters and they are showing up in publications and galleries all over the place.  Even software filters in postprocessing are duplicating the colour of light in the early morning or late afternoon.  Colour correction is often done to individual sections of the photo rather than globally through white balance adjustments.

So, why customize the white balance and then totally manipulate the colour through filters and postprocessing?

skieur


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## Big Mike (Oct 1, 2009)

I shoot in RAW and just leave the WB on auto most of the time.  When it comes time to process landscape shots, I'm very rarely worried about accurate WB.  I just adjust it so that it looks best, or portrays the mood that I want to show in the image.


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## CSR Studio (Oct 1, 2009)

I do the same as Mike, shoot in RAW with WB on auto. I almost always use a polarizer on landscapes.


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## tirediron (Oct 1, 2009)

As someone who shoots a LOT of out-of-doors/nature/landscape work, I will have to disagree with my learned colleagues.  I ALWAYS set a custom white balance.  Granted, you're going to adjust your image for what looks best, and as mentioned, I invariably have a CPOL on my lens, but does anyone really want yellow snow in their mountains?

I've found the Expodisc to provide excellent results in pretty much all (except low-light) shooting situations.  It's a little pricey (> $100 in 77mm) but it works well.


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## dleightley (Oct 1, 2009)

Big Mike said:


> I shoot in RAW and just leave the WB on auto most of the time.  When it comes time to process landscape shots, I'm very rarely worried about accurate WB.  I just adjust it so that it looks best, or portrays the mood that I want to show in the image.


RAW is the way to go, Like above I also shoot in RAW and where I need to I will rework the white balance, but not all the time.


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## Derrel (Oct 1, 2009)

I know of a dPreview Fuji d-slr Forum landscaper who goes by the name of Claypaws, and over there he has twice posted on his white balance method. I am sure you can do a search in the Fujifilm d-sl forum on the term Claypaws white balance method, and come up with his posts, which have numerous excellent samples showing the benefit of shooting to a custom white balance that makes things look the way you want them to look.

Basically, his method involves shooting a white target outdoors in cloudy,late afternoon light and having that as a white balance pre-set. I myself when I used to shoot the Fuji S2 Pro camera, often white balanced off of a white-painted metal deck chair in the mid-evening hours, and saved that as a WB preset.

One problem with white balancing to the prevailing light is that in some cases, it strips away the color of the light that is actually there, rendering beautiful evening light as flat, mundane noon daylight looking dreck. A fair amount of the demosaicing of the sensor data is based upon having a decent white balance entered into the camera at the time of shooting, so there *are* some good reasons for setting a white balance if accuracy is what you want; the thing the Claypaws white balance method does is to preserve a lot of the character of the light; his sample photos show the validity of the method.


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## Allyn (Oct 6, 2009)

I'd have to agree with the people voting for RAW, there's really no substitute.  

Not to say that creating a custom white balance isn't a good thing, it can save you quite a bit of tweaking later on, but shooting in RAW and having the ability to manually adjust the white balance as you see fit is the way most of those professional landscape shots end up looking so good.


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## Garbz (Oct 6, 2009)

White balance is a creative tool. In many landscape shots all manner of non-neutral white balances are used to achieve various effects. Getting white balance neutral is something often done in a studio.

You mentioned that you're white balancing off a white sheet of paper? How white? Injet paper? Because Injet paper is actually blue. What about laser paper? Most of it is so thin that I'll pick up slight colour variations from what is behind it. 

You have a grey card that you use in post? Why don't you custom white balance of that?


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## andrew99 (Oct 7, 2009)

It sounds like the piece of paper that you're using as a reference is not pure white. 



tirediron said:


> but does anyone really want yellow snow in their mountains?



Just don't eat the yellow snow!


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## Buckster (Oct 7, 2009)

My interest in the topic is really more for portraits than for landscapes, but white balance is white balance.  Like others in the thread, I mostly shoot RAW in auto white balance, then correct as necessary later with Lightroom and/or Photoshop.

I've been hemming and hawing to buy this for a while now:

PhotoVision: Product List

I just really hate to spend $60 for 3 tones of fabric on a collapsible hoop if I can work out something less expensive to do the same job.   If anyone here is using it, I'd love to read about your experience with them.

By the way, if anyone has inexpensive sources for gray cards or, even better, 18% color neutral gray fabric, color checker cards, etc., that would be a great help to me and probably a lot of other folks here, including the OP.  From checking around online, you'd think they're all made from gold, platinum and diamond trim!

Anyway, I was sitting here thinking about the piece of paper not being true white, as discussed above, and it occurred to me that my shoot-through umbrellas would be color-neutral white and would serve that purpose well, wouldn't they?  In addition, my intent is mostly for getting a color balance shot at the beginning of a portrait session that I can then use on the rest of the shots for that shoot in post, which means I've already got the umbrella set up and ready to use as a white balance reference, in most cases.

There's also the white fabric that makes the screens on my soft boxes - they would be color-neutral white as well, wouldn't they?

And, while I'm sort of on the subject, anyone know where to get quantities of color-neutral white rip stop nylon for making large light panels?


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## Joves (Oct 7, 2009)

I with Tirediron I use the Expodisc. Better that white paper are white coffee filters. Have also heard of people using Pringle tops as well. I do shoot RAW as well but, I prefer getting it right first. I know old fashioned to some but hey it is what it is.


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## Garbz (Oct 7, 2009)

I just noticed the yellow snow comment by tiredon. If you have snow then why not use that for your white balance reference?

Clearly logic would dictate if you want something specific to be white then use it as the reference.


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## abqstyle (Oct 10, 2009)

ladshead said:


> I'm trying to get my head around a problem I am experiencing when using custom white balance for landscapes.
> 
> When I use custom white balance as opposed to automatic, all of my photographs have a yellow cast.  I know that this can be removed in post processing but I want to get it right first time.
> 
> ...



I generally keep the white balance on Daylight instead of auto. The auto setting can be fooled by dominant colors in the image. For example, I shoot quite a bit in red rock country in New Mexico and that really trips ups white balance on the auto setting. Keeping it on Daylight and then doing minor tweaks in raw is more reliable.


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## chammer (Oct 10, 2009)

Buckster said:


> I've been hemming and hawing to buy this for a while now:
> 
> PhotoVision: Product List
> 
> I just really hate to spend $60 for 3 tones of fabric on a collapsible hoop if I can work out something less expensive to do the same job.   If anyone here is using it, I'd love to read about your experience with them.



buckster: thank you so much for the link! i've been trying to find the source of this card for a while now.

i dont have any first hand experience, but i shot with a pro fashion shooter last month. he's the son of my gf's friend, and she got me hooked up to follow him around and learn some stuff about shooting models and lighting and such. anyways...he showed me this very card, how to use it, the spikes on the histogram it creates and the like. it was very cool and very easy to use. i had forgotten the name thus my search was halted. i see the 14" (which appears to be the size he had) is only $35 now as its on sale!

im going to order one and see how it goes.


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## Buckster (Oct 10, 2009)

chammer said:


> Buckster said:
> 
> 
> > I've been hemming and hawing to buy this for a while now:
> ...


Cool!  Be sure to give us a full review after testing!


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## iriairi (Oct 11, 2009)

chammer said:


> Cool!  Be sure to give us a full review after testing!



I have the 14" and it is a good size. Have also used the reflector to get a little bit of extra light. Kind of wished I had gotten the 24" but wanted something compact to carry when I was hiking in. 

I do shoot RAW, but like to use this to get the initial pass as close as possible. To the OP, I think that you would be better setting your WB with your grey card.


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## Tinstafl (Oct 17, 2009)

I shoot a reference card at times but if I do not have it but have some time I will either shoot auto but mostly I use my live view and adjust the wb while looking at the rear screen. You can get very close with this if you have live view and some time. Another option is to do that for a reference point and then use the WB bracket option.  I shoot raw plus JPG so I always have the raw file but this saves time if i get it right the first time.


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## battletone (Oct 17, 2009)

I picked up a Kodak 18% grey card from a local shop for $4.  Its not the full letter sized one, those were $8.  I think it works great, but then I am not a professional.  Anywhere I move the pickup tool on the photo of it seems to be within a total range of 100 for the temperature.  The hue only seems to ever vary by 1.  Maybe it isn't as accurate as a $50-100 tool, but for $4 I have nothing to complain about.


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## 5DManiac (Oct 29, 2009)

Raw/AutoWB FTW.


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