# Nikon mirrorless for DX?



## mikoh4792 (Jan 30, 2015)

Do you guys think Nikon will eventually replace their dx dslr lineup with a "dx" mirrorless cameras? If so, would the lens mount have to change?


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## gsgary (Jan 30, 2015)

Will man ever step on the moon again


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## mikoh4792 (Jan 30, 2015)

gsgary said:


> Will man ever step on the moon again



I'd say so.


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## gsgary (Jan 30, 2015)

If they do they are years behind Sony, Fuji, Samsung, Panasonic


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## Braineack (Jan 30, 2015)

mikoh4792 said:


> Do you guys think Nikon will eventually replace their dx dslr lineup with a "dx" mirrorless cameras? If so, would the lens mount have to change?


no. n/a.


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## goodguy (Jan 30, 2015)

Its anyone's guess but you must see the BIG picture.

DX is second in its priority for companies like Nikon and Canon.
Most important for them is to cater to the professional and for now mirrorless is still not as good as DSLR.
When technology will let mirrorless catch up or surpass DSLR in every way thats when Nikon and Canon will make mirrorless.

I hope Nikon will not get stuck forever with DSLR and I assume these guys know what they are doing.
Will DX move to mirrorless before FX or FX first before DX or maybe both at the same time ?
We will know in few years.


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## KmH (Jan 30, 2015)

I bet Nikon's and Canon's 1st priority is the millions of amateur photographers that buy the boatloads of DX cameras the companies make.

Each day there are fewer and fewer professional photographers as more and more photography users source the images they need from stock photography agencies who in turn are more often sourcing the photos they offer from social photo sharing web sites like Flickr, SmugMug, and 500px.

The Flange Focal Distance (FFD) of SLR cameras (digital or analog) is greater than the FFD needed for mirrorless cameras.
Consequently the lenses used on SLR/DSLR cameras have to be designed differently (or adapted) to be used on a camera that has an FFD different than the lens was designed for.


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## jaomul (Jan 30, 2015)

Yes no maybe. It doesn't really matter because their lens line up is designed for a certain flange distance as mentioned above so if they did likely a different lens type and mount would be required, so if one wants mirrorless they can choose Sony, Olympus, Panasonic, Samsung or various others. Plenty choice really


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## bigal1000 (Jan 30, 2015)

No


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## gsgary (Jan 30, 2015)

Flange is a fantastic word


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## Bebulamar (Jan 30, 2015)

I think Nikon won't do that.
If they do they must introduce new lens mount because if they use current lens line the camera would be too big even if empty inside.


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## wfooshee (Jan 30, 2015)

DX lenses would have to maintain there mounting distance from the sensor in order to focus properly. Move them closer to the sensor, as would happen with a smaller body (the whole idea of mirrorless, right?) then they lose the ability to focus closer than a certain distance, and the other end of the scale is actually past infinity. Basically, there's more to DX than sensor size.

Could they build a mirrorless camera with a DX sensor? Sure. They could even make one FX. But either would take a new set of lenses if you want the thinner body that the mirrorless design implies.


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## mikoh4792 (Jan 30, 2015)

wfooshee said:


> DX lenses would have to maintain there mounting distance from the sensor in order to focus properly. Move them closer to the sensor, as would happen with a smaller body (the whole idea of mirrorless, right?) then they lose the ability to focus closer than a certain distance, and the other end of the scale is actually past infinity. Basically, there's more to DX than sensor size.
> 
> Could they build a mirrorless camera with a DX sensor? Sure. They could even make one FX. But either would take a new set of lenses if you want the thinner body that the mirrorless design implies.



So in other words, stop investing in dx lenses(like the $1300 17-55) and jump ship to mirrorless systems?(fuji, panasonic, sony).


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## mikoh4792 (Jan 30, 2015)

wfooshee said:


> DX lenses would have to maintain there mounting distance from the sensor in order to focus properly. Move them closer to the sensor, as would happen with a smaller body (the whole idea of mirrorless, right?) then they lose the ability to focus closer than a certain distance, and the other end of the scale is actually past infinity. Basically, there's more to DX than sensor size.
> 
> Could they build a mirrorless camera with a DX sensor? Sure. They could even make one FX. But either would take a new set of lenses if you want the thinner body that the mirrorless design implies.



So in other words, stop investing in dx lenses(like the $1300 17-55) and jump ship to mirrorless systems?(fuji, panasonic, sony). Isn't everything going to be mirrorless in the future anyways?


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## sashbar (Jan 31, 2015)

mikoh4792 said:


> So in other words, stop investing in dx lenses(like the $1300 17-55) and jump ship to mirrorless systems?(fuji, panasonic, sony). Isn't everything going to be mirrorless in the future anyways?



That is exactly what I did. But my prime reason was the fact that Fujinon FX lense range is better built, (slightly) more compact and optically superior to anything DX I have owned or tried.  It is just an exiting glass compared to DX, that might be even intentionally dumbed down by Nikon a bit to make customers switch to full frame.

Fuji have no FF plans in the near future, so their top APSC models aim at advanced/pros and FX lenses are built to last and are top notch - to the point where you do not need Zeiss (that is also available with Fuji mount) or anything fancy if you own FX. Fuji makes their own high quality M adaptor, so you can use Leica lenses, or Voigtlander etc. but I am not even interested in that.

IFAIK Nikon earns most of the money from their DX DSLR and as long as they keep doing it, they will not abandon the range, that would be just silly.  But I do not believe they have no strategy for the times when mirror less will start taking over DSLR.  

The problem for Nikon and Canon is that they can not just use their DF lenses for the new generation of mirrorless, DX will be seen as outdated, cumbersome design with the wrong  (yes) flange distance.  You will be able to keep using it with an adaptor, for sure and probably even benefit from the price drop on a used market though. 

 I guess mirrorless is indeed the future, unless there will be something newer that that. As far as I am concerned, it is not a question of "if",  it is a question of "when" for both DX and FF.  Mirrorless potentially is just a better, more modern and more cost effective technology. You simply can not argue with that, even if for some reason you feel attached to a huge flipping mirror inside your body  .  The fact that we still have large, stressed moving parts in a modern digital camera these days is inexplicable.  There will be no mirrors, prisms and mechanical shutters in future cameras , that is for sure.   FUJI XT-1 has an electronic shutter with the max speed of 1/30,000 sec already by the way.


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## goodguy (Jan 31, 2015)

I think moving to mirrorless is a personal choice, I know most people are happy with this choice but I also know of some that came back to DLSR.
As I said DSLR has its advantage, mirrorless still didnt catch up with DSLR in all ways and especially with its AF system it has few years of R&D to do.

For me putting aside AF issues the main problem with mirrorless is its small choices with FF sensors, there is only 1 and thats the Sony A7, good camera but it suffers from 2 main issues
Not impressive AF system and very poor lens selection.
If you are ok to invest in a system that is crop sensor and understand it will probably never go FF then Fuji is a good choice.
If Sony had good lens selection then their a6000 would be a good investment too.

So as I said its very personal what you want to go for and is the AF good enough for you.

BTW even the Fuji with good fast lenses you are looking at a fairly big system, fast lenses always mean BIG lenses.


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## TheFantasticG (Jan 31, 2015)

Would've been awesome if Nikon had made the 1 series mirrorless.... But they didn't.


Sent from my iPhone using Telekenisisisisis


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## sashbar (Jan 31, 2015)

goodguy said:


> I think moving to mirrorless is a personal choice, I know most people are happy with this choice but I also know of some that came back to DLSR.
> As I said DSLR has its advantage, mirrorless still didnt catch up with DSLR in all ways and especially with its AF system it has few years of R&D to do.
> 
> For me putting aside AF issues the main problem with mirrorless is its small choices with FF sensors, there is only 1 and thats the Sony A7, good camera but it suffers from 2 main issues
> ...




I do not see Fuji FX as a compact system really. For that I have my little Ricoh. (Dropped it yesterday on a concrete floor, thought that would be it,  and guess what - not a single scratch, works as flawlessly as before - it is amazingly well built, magnesium alloy all round.  Had I broken it I would go to the shop straight away and buy a new one. I love this little gem).

What I love FUJI FX for is its versatility. You can use 27 mm pancake and it is a pocketable system, great for street. You can put it in your coat or jacket pocket. Or you can use a big 16-55 2,8 with the grip, and it is a solid system with the glass that is a true pro quality.  Or you can use the "kit" 18-55 2,8 -4 that is small, light and crazy good. Or you can use a chunky, but rather compact 56 mm 1,2 lense that gives you paper thin DoF (was voted Best lense of 2014 btw).  What I have learned is that a compact body and a variety of lenses give you very different options.  This system is like a chameleon, the only thing that stays is the consistently high IQ, whatever the lense.


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## greybeard (Jan 31, 2015)

The problems of adapting DX lenses to mirrorless have been completely addressed by Sony and others.  Sony is even marketing a mirrorless FF A7 and has adapters for their FF Alpha mount.  When and if Nikon and Canon move to mirrorless (and I think that the technology is moving in that direction) it will be interesting to see if they follow Sony's lead or come up with a totally different approach.


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## Bebulamar (Jan 31, 2015)

If you want mirrorless in the DX size it's best to buy Fuji or Sony. Nikon isn't going to make a better system.


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## wfooshee (Jan 31, 2015)

My previous post was answering why DX lenses (probably) wouldn't work on a new DX-sensor mirrorless. I said nothing about mirrorless being superior, you should abandon DX and go mirrorless, so I'm not sure where that response came from. 

If for some reason you feel like you MUST go mirrorless, then yes, you will likely need to abandon your DX glass.

Adapters work, though. Adapters can make up the mount distance, and depending on camera and lens brands they might even keep all the functionality of the lens intact, but you lose the compactness that is present in mirrorless cameras.

Personally, mirrorless isn't good enough yet. It may be someday, even someday soon, but as pointed out, the AF doesn't work as well, and personally, I despise electronic viewfinders.


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## sashbar (Jan 31, 2015)

greybeard said:


> The problems of adapting DX lenses to mirrorless have been completely addressed by Sony and others.  Sony is even marketing a mirrorless FF A7 and has adapters for their FF Alpha mount.  When and if Nikon and Canon move to mirrorless (and I think that the technology is moving in that direction) it will be interesting to see if they follow Sony's lead or come up with a totally different approach.



Adapting a  DSLR lense to a mirrorless format is not a problem at all, all you need is a simple  adaptor. Problem for you as a manufacturer will start if you keep producing same DSLR type lenses for your new mirrorless body.  A dedicated mirrorless lense with the same characteristics and of the same image quality is cheaper to produce.  So you will start losing to competitors due to higher manufacturing costs.  This is pure economics on top of the fact that a dedicated mirrorless lense is somewhat smaller, lighter and more attractive for a customer. Canikon will simply have to ditch their current DSLR ranges.  That is probably exactly what will make them the last ones to switch to FF and cropped mirrorless.


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## greybeard (Jan 31, 2015)

sashbar said:


> greybeard said:
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> > The problems of adapting DX lenses to mirrorless have been completely addressed by Sony and others.  Sony is even marketing a mirrorless FF A7 and has adapters for their FF Alpha mount.  When and if Nikon and Canon move to mirrorless (and I think that the technology is moving in that direction) it will be interesting to see if they follow Sony's lead or come up with a totally different approach.
> ...


Will Sony keep supporting their A mount?


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## sashbar (Jan 31, 2015)

wfooshee said:


> mi
> 
> Personally, mirrorless isn't good enough yet. It may be someday, even someday soon, but as pointed out, the AF doesn't work as well, and personally, I despise electronic viewfinders.





greybeard said:


> sashbar said:
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> > greybeard said:
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How do I know?


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## gsgary (Jan 31, 2015)

wfooshee said:


> My previous post was answering why DX lenses (probably) wouldn't work on a new DX-sensor mirrorless. I said nothing about mirrorless being superior, you should abandon DX and go mirrorless, so I'm not sure where that response came from.
> 
> If for some reason you feel like you MUST go mirrorless, then yes, you will likely need to abandon your DX glass.
> 
> ...


Rubbish the A7 range is as good as any dslr and better than most


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## goodguy (Jan 31, 2015)

sashbar said:


> goodguy said:
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> > I think moving to mirrorless is a personal choice, I know most people are happy with this choice but I also know of some that came back to DLSR.
> ...


No argument here, I know of pro's that moved for the X-T1 and the quality of the system is fantastic but match it to its fast zoom glass and you are getting a fairly big and heavy system which means the advantage of the Fuji is getting smaller.
If a user is ok with prime lenses no doubt its a tiny powerful system but using only prime lenses is not for everybody, using slow zoom lenses is very limiting.
So we go back to square one, you want a good flexible system you will get stuck with big heavy lenses, no matter how small the camera is.
And if you want a truly flexible system you must have FF and the lenses on that are even bigger.
Fuji is great but not for everybody.


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## photoguy99 (Jan 31, 2015)

No. The DSLR is the pinnacle of human achievement and will never be supplanted. I know because I bought one and it is awesome.


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## bigal1000 (Jan 31, 2015)

gsgary said:


> wfooshee said:
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> > My previous post was answering why DX lenses (probably) wouldn't work on a new DX-sensor mirrorless. I said nothing about mirrorless being superior, you should abandon DX and go mirrorless, so I'm not sure where that response came from.
> ...


 Could not disagree more match it against a Nikon D810 with 36 MP and really good optical VF


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## gsgary (Jan 31, 2015)

bigal1000 said:


> gsgary said:
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A7r has 36mp and great VF


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## bigal1000 (Jan 31, 2015)

gsgary said:


> bigal1000 said:
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Then why did Sony switch their latest


gsgary said:


> bigal1000 said:
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Then why does sony's new A7s have 12.2 MP


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## goodguy (Jan 31, 2015)

gsgary said:


> wfooshee said:
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> 
> > My previous post was answering why DX lenses (probably) wouldn't work on a new DX-sensor mirrorless. I said nothing about mirrorless being superior, you should abandon DX and go mirrorless, so I'm not sure where that response came from.
> ...


Yep I can see myself going to a Hockey game with bad lighting conditions and fast moving player, I can see myself mounting Sony's famous fast F2.8 70-200mm glass and I can see the amazing results I am getting.

Oh wait Sony doesn't have an F2.8 dedicated glass for the A7 how silly of me, I know you are great doing MF so I am sure you will have the whole game MF.
Or how about going to you kids music night school where its packed with people and to focus on your kid you must use a telezoom, I am sure the F4 Sony makes for the A7 will be more than enough.....NOT!!!
I was at a school night and had the pleasure to meet a lovely couple with an A7, they had a prime lens mounted on it and due to the heavy crowd he couldn't get close enough to the stage and get the frame he wanted while I was away with my D750 with the 70-200mm 2.8 and got the shots at 200mm and 12800ISO F2.8. Not ideal but still VERY usable, I got the memories of my son playing while he couldn't, luckily for him I got few shots for him and send it to him after processing.

Is the A7 a good camera, absolutely, I might own one in the future, LOVE this camera!!! love the vision and guts of Sony to make a FF mirrorless but AF wise it is still not there and they need to make fast zoom lenses or else they are limiting their users in some scenarios.
You are happy with your A7 then god bless you but it is still a limited package for some, definitely for me.


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## gsgary (Jan 31, 2015)

bigal1000 said:


> gsgary said:
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For video and low light Nikon cannot match its low light capability


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## gsgary (Jan 31, 2015)

goodguy said:


> gsgary said:
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A7 has not been made for that, i have been there and done that with Canon 1D and 300mmF2.8L


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## goodguy (Jan 31, 2015)

gsgary said:


> goodguy said:
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Exactly, A7 is a fantastic camera but it is still not a replacement for a well rounded DSLR like the D750, D810, 5D III

One or two more generations and it might be that but not yet.


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## gsgary (Jan 31, 2015)

goodguy said:


> gsgary said:
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But DSLR are hopeless for street photography but A7 is ok for some fast action


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## otherprof (Jan 31, 2015)

gsgary said:


> Will man ever step on the moon again


And what about Naomi?


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## goodguy (Jan 31, 2015)

gsgary said:


> goodguy said:
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Didnt you hear what I said ?
I LOVE the A7 (especially the A7s) and it is a VERY good camera for many scenarios, still it is not a well rounded camera like a FF DSLR.
With more lenses and improved AF system and you will see here a DSLR killer but Sony needs to decide to invest in this excellent system.


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