# Nascar Photos



## brian_f2.8

It's been a while since I have been on here. Lately I have been filming HS lax. Now race season is approaching so Ill post some photos when I get time. 

I was at Dover and Pocono, CC is appreciated


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## o hey tyler

Trim it down to 3-5 images. Too many to render proper C&C.


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## vintagesnaps

You got some nice shots, framed well with the camera straight - which I think can be important with sports since there are often posts and poles etc. that can make it noticeable if the camera was straight or not. 

You did some nice panning, and I don't know how you managed to capture two cars moving on either side of the Pocono sign like that but I think that effect worked well in that shot. 

Only minor critique would be when there's signage in the photo I usually try to frame it so I'm getting an entire word or at least try to not crop thru the middle of a letter - like the Sunoco sign where there's a slight edge of another yellow logo at the left edge, I'd maybe crop the left side just slightly. It would have been nice to frame it above that wall and sign but may not have been possible from your vantage point. 

In the other shot with a wall in the foreground I might try a version cropping the bottom edge (to get rid of the lettering in the lower left just keeping most of the N on the right side); or maybe crop the left side very slightly and the bottom enough to eliminate that grate? - not sure if another version would look better or not but with my own photos if I think it could be better cropped I often try different versions and see what works best.

Great pit stop images, and I like the one of the Target crew with the logos across their backs (I might crop the left side slightly too just to maybe make that black dumpster less recognizable). My comments are probably nit-picky but I'm used to shooting hockey with all the dasher ads and backlit signs so am probably aware of noticing background details in my own photos. 

I like the one close up shot too, that works I think having the objects featured and the person more subtly in the background. I think behind the scenes photos can give a great feel for an event. I'm not into motor sports - but these make me want to go to a speedway! so you accomplished capturing the event well.


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## R3d

Your first shot of Denny Hamlin is framed well, but the second could have benefitted from a slower shutter speed.


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## imagemaker46

Nice series of average fan type shots.  It does show that you are looking around for different angles though, which is the key to getting better.


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## brian_f2.8

Thanks Imagemaker but I'm credentialed. I have been hired to shoot everything but F1. We cover 11 drivers and shoot for most sponsors. 

I'm by far a Daren Heath or Vladimir Rys but our clients don't have interest in that stuff. 

Messing around with shutter speeds, wb and light pockets aren't our thing.


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## imagemaker46

brian_f2.8 said:


> Thanks Imagemaker but I'm credentialed. I have been hired to shoot everything but F1. We cover 11 drivers and shoot for most sponsors.
> 
> I'm by far a Daren Heath or Vladimir Rys but our clients don't have interest in that stuff.
> 
> Messing around with shutter speeds, wb and light pockets aren't our thing.



Being credentialed has zero to do with these photos or any other photos.  They still come across as looking like very average spectator pictures.  I know lots of people that end up with credentials to shoot sports that haven't got a clue about how to shoot sports, these people that are given an opportunity to get into areas that no one else can ,and they still shoot average pictures, because they are just average photographers.  I'm not directing this at you, I'm just saying credentials don't make people good photographers, in a lot of cases it just gives people a bit of self importance.

Dropping names does that as well, that's something that impresses me even less.

My comments are based completely on what you posted, nothing more and nothing less.


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## brian_f2.8

I agree, can you post some of your work?


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## imagemaker46

brian_f2.8 said:


> I agree, can you post some of your work?



Image Communications, Archive sports Images, and Photography | IMAGE Communications

Click on galleries home page, there is some motorsports there.  All shot on film.


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## R3d

brian_f2.8 said:


> Thanks Imagemaker but I'm credentialed. I have been hired to shoot everything but F1. We cover 11 drivers and shoot for most sponsors.
> 
> I'm by far a Daren Heath or Vladimir Rys but our clients don't have interest in that stuff.
> 
> Messing around with shutter speeds, wb and light pockets aren't our thing.



Honestly, they should be if you're going to provide quality motorsports images.


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## imagemaker46

Why is always assumed that good quality requires using anything more than available light?


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## brian_f2.8

It's the current market. When JJ won, the sun was perfect for a silhouette shot. I was up high shooting but no one wants that kind of photo. The sponsors want to see their logos, they pay so u do as they say. 

No one really cares about start shots anymore, it's a thing in the past. 

I'm not a full time pro but I shoot a lot of corporate stuff that sponsors care about. It's a business and its going well. I could spend the whole day for 10-15 amazing photos n get very artistic. The thing is no one cares.


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## brian_f2.8

imagemaker46 said:


> Image Communications, Archive sports Images, and Photography | IMAGE Communications
> 
> Click on galleries home page, there is some motorsports there.  All shot on film.



Not a big fan of the motorsports stuff. The crops don't work and all the images are similar. I don't see any creativity. Thanks for sharing.


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## jake337

brian_f2.8 said:


> It's the current market. When JJ won, the sun was perfect for a silhouette shot. I was up high shooting but no one wants that kind of photo. The sponsors want to see their logos, they pay so u do as they say.
> 
> No one really cares about start shots anymore, it's a thing in the past.
> 
> I'm not a full time pro but I shoot a lot of corporate stuff that sponsors care about. It's a business and its going well. I could spend the whole day for 10-15 amazing photos n get very artistic. The thing is no one cares.




Yup, except your posting on a forum full of photographers who do care.

May as well post in the just for fun section next time if you don't want CC on your corporate snapshots....


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## brian_f2.8

It's a sports gallery not iPhone grabs. I only shoot on manual.


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## brian_f2.8

Go to the Getty page from the race. Please point out what is a good photo. I'm curious. Going out shooting f9/ 1/2000th front 3/4 is boring. Gotta be different.


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## imagemaker46

brian_f2.8 said:


> imagemaker46 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Image Communications, Archive sports Images, and Photography | IMAGE Communications
> 
> Click on galleries home page, there is some motorsports there.  All shot on film.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not a big fan of the motorsports stuff. The crops don't work and all the images are similar. I don't see any creativity. Thanks for sharing.
Click to expand...


Well I expected nothing less than glowing praise from you (being sarcastic)  The difference between what I shoot and what you shoot, is that I do care about the images I produce, every single one of them.  Your statement about no one caring is complete BS, what it says is that as a photographer you don't care because you don't understand what it's like to work as a professional.

What kind of background do you have as a photographer? Your profile says nothing, which says to me that you are probably about 20 years old, have an above average knowledge of how light works, and borrow the lenses that you need to shoot with, and you got a credential because you offered to work for little money and produce photos that no one cares about.  My guess is that you're not shooting for any sponsors but for a group of photographers that is, and if they sell one of your shots you make money.  It's also digital, why wouldn't you just shoot that really nice silhouette anyway, what did you have to lose.  Great photographers never pass on a great shot, even for just themselves.

As you have already critiqued my work, tell me how would you have cropped any of them differently?  Yes they look similar, commercial site.  As for being creative, well you already know everything about that, but who cares people don't want to see that anyway.

If you look at all the amazing motorsport shots, they are artistic, the main reason, those photographers know how to shoot them. it's ok to admit that you haven't figured that part out yet, that comes with experience and being able to see them in the first place.


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## imagemaker46

brian_f2.8 said:


> Go to the Getty page from the race. Please point out what is a good photo. I'm curious. Going out shooting f9/ 1/2000th front 3/4 is boring. Gotta be different.



I said right off the bat that at least you were looking around for different angles, and that's the key to getting better.  The majority of what you posted was the same thing and average race fan could have shot with a pre-race pit pass.  There is nothing wrong with that, just don't try and tell me it's what the corporate people want to see.


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## imagemaker46

I did like you said and went though a couple hundred Getty shots from Pocono, they all look good to me, a nice variety of action, sponsor stuff, artistic, you know the kind of thing that people like to look at.  Maybe you could post some additional images from the race, I'm assuming that the ones you posted were your best, so maybe the seconds would be ok, you know the kind that the sponsors want to see?


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## brian_f2.8

I'm not even going to bother replying to this rant. You are wrong on so many levels. You have just shown your @ss and that you can't take critiscm. 

I will say that I took 1100 photos and distributed 352 to clients. If you have a 100% keep rate, my hats off to you.


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## imagemaker46

Why not post some additional pics and prove me wrong.  Are the ones you posted your best?  When someone who has shown me nothing, won't elaborate on their experience and background in photography tells me that I don't know how to crop and all my images look the same, then yes I do like to have a little more clarification.

You won't bother answering any of the questions because you know that I am not far off the mark.


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## brian_f2.8

Again you are an amateur. No one ever or should never post their 5 star photos on Facebook, Twitter or any other forum. 

You and your ego are too much for me. 

Honestly leave the thread.


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## imagemaker46

I should apologize to you for suggesting that you are only 20 years old.  I expect that you must be in your late 20's or 30's with hopes of becoming a full time professional photographer one day, but are working full time doing something else to pay the bills.  I know that I am correct  that you not the most experienced photographer and are still learning.  I have been doing this for close to 40 years now and at times I do get my back up and as a result my messages become too personal when they shouldn't be.

My keep rate is usually around 85%, same as it was when I shot film and manual focused.


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## imagemaker46

brian_f2.8 said:


> Again you are an amateur. No one ever or should never post their 5 star photos on Facebook, Twitter or any other forum.
> 
> You and your ego are too much for me.
> 
> Honestly leave the thread.



Tell you what, go back on to my site, have a look at some of the other galleries and maybe read my bio, then call me an amateur.  I had offered up an apology, in the message just before this one. I suspected that you wouldn't post any other images.  I think you have a overrated opinion of just how good you think you are.  I can back my ego up every time I pick up a camera.  I don't worry about what I post on this forum.  I have looked back at several of your previous threads and it has painted a very clear picture of your understanding and skills as a photographer. There is nothing wrong with admitting your still learning.


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## imagemaker46

Forgot to add one thing. You call me an amateur because no one should never ever post their 5 star photos.  Maybe you should consider watermarking the "5 star" photos on your web site.  A simple right click is all it takes for anyone to take those.  You have some nice images on your site.


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## brian_f2.8

40 years and you are justifying your self to a 20 yr old kid online? Seriously when you loose your ego let me know. You are acting like a baby not a professional. 

I never said I was Joe McNally. Everyone has something to learn. Who doesn't besides you. 

You reply to each comment like you are in 5th grade. You have stalked all my previous threads. I don't see anything on your site that says wow. I wont even look at your site again, not worth my time. With all your knowledge and experience that's pathetic if you ask me. If that's your best work for 40 years sell all your gear, it's the most money you'll make in photo!


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## Pallycow

they don't look much different than the ones I got when I went to the races.  Does this mean I should get some credentials too?

Nice shots, but yeah...not much different than fan shots with nice gear. 

*shrugs*


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## Pallycow

Here are a few of mine.  I have a few thousand, most still unprocessed and unsorted.  lol.   

Not saying mine are the chit...just using them to echo my point.  I did not have access to the pits so I could not get close up shots as you did.  I know nothing of nascar/motorsports photography...these are just shots of a semi-pro photog on vacation that knows how to use a camera.  I think the photos make that statement more than my words do.  So you can see why others might say that about your shots as well.  They seem fan based not "hired pro" based.  To me anyways...and I'm guessing a few others.


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## brian_f2.8

Those are good. I have no issue with those. I'd submit those to our companies gallery.

The second one of Gordon not so much but they are fine. 

Clean sharp properly exposed photos is what people want. In the garages clean shots of the driver the crew chief interactions and some tight photos like the shocks for Greg Biffle are always nice.


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## Pallycow

brian_f2.8 said:


> Those are good. I have no issue with those. I'd submit those to our companies gallery.
> 
> The second one of Gordon not so much but they are fine.
> 
> Clean sharp properly exposed photos is what people want. In the garages clean shots of the driver the crew chief interactions and some tight photos like the shocks for Greg Biffle are always nice.



I was far away at 400mm, and even then some were heavy crops...but I'm happy.  ;-)

The hard part, as with any photography, is shooting what the client wants, not what we want, or what we think others want.  People are just so damn varied in tasted, it drives me bonkers.  lol


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## brian_f2.8

I agree, I look for the unique shots. Last year I submitted 5 photos 1/40th pan through 2" space behind the Armco at The Glen. Everyone in the media center loved it. I was chastised for wasting my time afterwards. 
I admire F1 photographers that have the ability to go to a race and shoot from a unique perspective that most don't get to see. 
I'd love to be able to do that but again no one cares but true photographers. 
I have only been shooting for 2 years going on 3(second year doing pro sports). I'm pretty happy with what I have been able to do. 
I was asked to go to LeMans next week but can't get enough time off work. 
I must be doing something right because it has been a very good experience so far with good money on my end.


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## Pallycow

brian_f2.8 said:


> I'd love to be able to do that but again no one cares but true photographers.




I was having this conversation with a friend today, and more recently many.  I feel this is a sign of how things are going.  So we need to adapt.  I have just not yet figured out how to adapt...without conforming.  It's my struggle I guess.  lol  I hate conforming, but I love money.  lol.

No one appreciates my, well what I call my true work, except other photogs.  The general masses like the chit I would normally throw away, and they pay for it.  Sigh...oh well.  I'll figure it out one day.


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## brian_f2.8

Yep either create a photo or get paid. Sorry but business before pleasure.


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## imagemaker46

brian_f2.8 said:


> 40 years and you are justifying your self to a 20 yr old kid online? Seriously when you loose your ego let me know. You are acting like a baby not a professional.
> 
> I never said I was Joe McNally. Everyone has something to learn. Who doesn't besides you.
> 
> You reply to each comment like you are in 5th grade. You have stalked all my previous threads. I don't see anything on your site that says wow. I wont even look at your site again, not worth my time. With all your knowledge and experience that's pathetic if you ask me. If that's your best work for 40 years sell all your gear, it's the most money you'll make in photo!




Keep teaching school and play the pro/am on the weekends, it takes guts and skill to give up a full time pay cheque to really understand what it's like to work as the other.


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## imagemaker46

brian_f2.8 said:


> Yep either create a photo or get paid. Sorry but business before pleasure.



I'm pretty sure all the F1 guys are doing both, consistent shooting at every single event is what clients want.  They want to see solid boring action as well as creative generic images that they can use for advertising.   There shouldn't be any limitations put on yourself when taking pictures. Not shooting something you see simply because you don't think a client would like it undermines why you want to be a photographer in the first place.  The best pictures come from the ability to see what others don't.


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## brian_f2.8

imagemaker46 said:


> brian_f2.8 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 40 years and you are justifying your self to a 20 yr old kid online? Seriously when you loose your ego let me know. You are acting like a baby not a professional.
> 
> I never said I was Joe McNally. Everyone has something to learn. Who doesn't besides you.
> 
> You reply to each comment like you are in 5th grade. You have stalked all my previous threads. I don't see anything on your site that says wow. I wont even look at your site again, not worth my time. With all your knowledge and experience that's pathetic if you ask me. If that's your best work for 40 years sell all your gear, it's the most money you'll make in photo!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keep teaching school and play the pro/am on the weekends, it takes guts and skill to give up a full time pay cheque to really understand what it's like to work as the other.
Click to expand...


Do you have any clue what you are talking about? Ask the staff photographers in Chicago who got laid off and are now stringers with iphones. The star ledger laid off most of their photo staff. The equipment is too good these days to get a good shot. If you want to pride your self on the work you have done - go ahead. I wouldn't hire you. 

And I have talked with Getty, Red Bull and Sutton Images about doing work for them. They all said nice work whats your availability. Im not giving up a good salary with benefits and a pension to take photos. If someone would, then they are the biggest idiot on earth. 

Read an article online and look at the small photo that goes with the story. Sorry dude but photography isnt what it use to be so adapt to the times. 

And thank you for ruining my thread all because you have no talent and hack other peoples threads. Where is some of your current work? Please show us something better than whats on your webpage.


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## brian_f2.8

This is why I dont and will not consider your work professional

All images are taken at eye's height
All images are clean and evenly lit
No use of varied shutter speeds
No use of varied aperture
They all look like snap shots
All center point focus - (digital shots)
Your work relies on a pro line body and your 600mm ( nice avatar are you trying to be cool?)
A 9 yr old could do what you do
You say this is your best work for 40 years? Please dude, dont ever comment on my stuff again


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## o hey tyler

Brian, before you do work for red bull or Getty... Go back in time to that special place where you took photos of a hockey team. I don't think it would be wise for you to do paid work for either outlet.


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## brian_f2.8

Well I will be the first to admit that portraits and studio stuff is not me. I understand it now but I was never taught anything like that before but yes I know what you mean. However, the ability to show up to an event and take pictures and put them online for clients - works for me. 

I would not take any assignments with portraits or studio lighting set ups. I do action sports and thats it.


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## imagemaker46

Well lets see, sorry that your thread got high jacked, I don't like it when other people do.  After 2 years of shooting you have become an expert on what it is like to work as a full time professional photographer.  I agree that anyone that has a full time job should keep the job, if I was in the same situation I would do the same.  Yes photography has completely changed in the past ten years.  I really don't need to be told how things have changed, or how professionals are being laid off at the papers, these people are my professional peers.  I have lots of friends that have been laid off, so I understand far better than a weekend photographer what has been going on worldwide, I talk to these people, I don't just read about it.   Does it really matter that you have talked to Getty? everyone talks to Getty, I've even shot some stuff for Getty, so what?  What you won't ever be able to understand is that all I have ever done is worked as a photographer, I have gone through the best years of photography, changed when digital came along, started producing consistent quality images over 30 years ago and am still doing that.  You have been shooting for 2 years and already you consider yourself at the top of the game.  

Good luck shooting whatever you choose to shoot, keep your day job, I would as well.  But don't ever pretend to understand or know what a professional photographer does, it's not just showing up and shooting a race on a Sunday, or showing up and shooting a wedding, there is more to it than just that.  Answer me one question:

When was the last time that you shot any event that went 20 days straight, without a day off, covering 20 different sports, working from 6am-2am and had to produce quailty images from every event, shooting in sun, rain and +45 heat, but doing it because that's what your client expects?   When you have had that experience 40 or 50 times then you'll have my respect as a photographer. Until then, enjoy your weekend shoots in the sun. 

As for adding new photos to my web site, well as you may have not figured this out, it is largely an archive site of the Canadian Football League, 6600 pictures from the past six decades, I have been scanning all my Dad's and my negs and slides to add to it, it is a commercial site that does generate sales,  no one else in Canada has the images that I post, so I am always adding to that.  My current clients get all their images and I do add a few shots to site when I have the time. It's not important to me to be adding new material when it is the archived images that people want.  Some things are just time consuming, and boring, but it's all part of that being a photographer thing I mentioned.


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## imagemaker46

brian_f2.8 said:


> This is why I dont and will not consider your work professional
> 
> All images are taken at eye's height
> All images are clean and evenly lit
> No use of varied shutter speeds
> No use of varied aperture
> They all look like snap shots
> All center point focus - (digital shots)
> Your work relies on a pro line body and your 600mm ( nice avatar are you trying to be cool?)
> A 9 yr old could do what you do
> You say this is your best work for 40 years? Please dude, dont ever comment on my stuff again[/QUOT
> 
> You really don't understand at all.  Did you just look at the motorsport gallery and base your opinion on 50 images?   Just so you know, the shot with the 600mm was from 1993.  I have always used pro gear, reason being, I am a pro.  Just for the record, I was playing around shooting pro sports with a Canon t21, and guess what? I can still produce quality images.  Lets see now, you are using an entry level Nikon body this week, right, are you going back to Canon next week?  It's not the camera, remember that saying?  I know that if you were using the best gear you would be shooting Si covers, I'm sure of it, I believe that all that is holding you back is your lack of pro gear, really I'm sure that's all it is.
> 
> All you have said about my work is that I am consistent in what I shoot, my clients demand consistency, and all the images are clean and evenly lit, how is that even remotely wrong, so poorly lit crap is your idea of being professional?  See how far you go with that thought.


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## imagemaker46

o hey tyler said:


> Brian, before you do work for red bull or Getty... Go back in time to that special place where you took photos of a hockey team. I don't think it would be wise for you to do paid work for either outlet.



But he's already talked to Getty and they want him.  I never did comment on those hockey head shots, there was nothing that could said, they spoke for themselves.


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## imagemaker46

Sorry got my avatar mixed up, that's my 400 2.8 and the photo was shot in 1998 while I was covering the Winter Olympics in Nagano.  It was shot by a good friend of mine who died of a heart attack, sad situation, great photographer, one of the best figure skating photographers in the world.


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## brian_f2.8

You really are pathetic. No pro would justify them selves to anyone. I never said I was a pro so please find me saying that while you stalk me - weirdo. I use all kinds of equipment because I can. I buy things and flip n sell them. At one point I did want to switch only because the average price of a 500 f4 is cheaper for Canon rather than Nikon. I can't jeopardize a brand that is notorious for focusing issues when you shoot moving objects. I have used the D3's in the past and to be honest, in broad day light my back up D7000 was fine(didnt buy a D300s because D7000 is better at high iso for basketball/hockey). Yes I have to work them but ok. I am going to upgrade the bodies to D3/D3s so I dont have to do as much work in post. Id love a D4 but I can't afford 2. 

I was at Sebring and used a 1Dx, great camera. Out of the camera - WOW! The dynamic range is great - very little post work. When you have to submit a min of 300 photos per event, there is only so much time you can spend in Aperture. You wouldnt know about post production. 

Say what you want about the hockey photos but I learned from the experience. It was my first time and I was lost. 

Like I said before your work is not professional level. I stated several reasons before.


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## brian_f2.8

Moderators - sorry to have this tangent. Please feel free to close this thread anytime. Is there a way I can block imagemaker from future threads? He could be the biggest tool on this forum.


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## imagemaker46

Ya you learned from your experience, but learning that skill is as important as any other, because at some point someone at a track is going to ask for a portrait and it really doesn't sound too good saying "but I don't know how to shoot portraits"  Seriously you should consider taking a course and get a feel for how to use use light, and understand light, being able to shoot basic head shots quickly is a benefit. 

The 1Dx is a great, I had the option last year of spending $8k on that or 4K on a 5D mklll, and being as the only real difference is fps, I'd rather spend half, as the fps isn't something I've been concerned about.  Why wouldn't I know anything about post production?  Most of my events require images being sent out with a very short time after shooting, mind you I try and get it right in the camera so that all is required is a few minor changes, a crop, colour correction if necessary, that's all.

I don't think I called you a professional I may have said pro/am which is accurate.  Professional teacher and Amateur photographer, right?

The list of reasons as to why I'm not a pro are pretty much all the attributes of being a professional photographer, I just don't understand how you can't see that.


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## imagemaker46

brian_f2.8 said:


> Moderators - sorry to have this tangent. Please feel free to close this thread anytime. Is there a way I can block imagemaker from future threads? He could be the biggest tool on this forum.




Ya they can lock the thread, Jason or John, feel free to shut this down.  He has made his point, although I'm not sure what it is, perhaps it's just his 2 years of photography talking and his overall lack of experience and skill, his refusal to answer questions or back up his position on how he became an expert in my world, and his inability to recognize what working as a professional photographer is all about.  Whatever point he has tried to make, It is lost in translation.  The hamster in his head that drives the wheel is starved of oxygen and his random thoughts on how to not be professional by producing clean and evenly lit images seems lost on me.  I will continue to try and get those clean and well lit images.


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## brian_f2.8

Im more comfortable with head shots now. I hope we have time to do some head shots in a few weeks for the ALMS event at Lime Rock. Last year at Pocono I met up with a guy who shoots NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, MLS, Boxing and Concerts. He never went to a race nor did he ever pan. A photographer is like being a Dr, there are many categories. Would a pro wedding photographer be able to shoot a sport? Maybe maybe not. Just because they can't do one thing doesnt mean they suck.

I agree about getting it right in camera - STILL LEARNING - so I can ftp right from photomechanic.

You implied that I know everything. Never said that. 

The photos I posted are my one offs from the past two weekends. Just showing I was there and what I have been up to. If someone thought those were my 8 best from two weekends at a nascar event, then you are an idiot!

My photos are very similar to what Getty, AP, USA has, except I only shoot our clients not everyone. I submit very similar quality with some deviation. I get compliments from others so its motivating. 

I stated many reasons why your work is not professional. Those reason's apply to your galleries.


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## brian_f2.8

imagemaker46 said:


> brian_f2.8 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Moderators - sorry to have this tangent. Please feel free to close this thread anytime. Is there a way I can block imagemaker from future threads? He could be the biggest tool on this forum.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ya they can lock the thread, Jason or John, feel free to shut this down.  He has made his point, although I'm not sure what it is, perhaps it's just his 2 years of photography talking and his overall lack of experience and skill, his refusal to answer questions or back up his position on how he became an expert in my world, and his inability to recognize what working as a professional photographer is all about.  Whatever point he has tried to make, It is lost in translation.  The hamster in his head that drives the wheel is starved of oxygen and his random thoughts on how to not be professional by producing clean and evenly lit images seems lost on me.  I will continue to try and get those clean and well lit images.
Click to expand...



Again never said I was an expert in your world. You think you are the god of photography. You are a joke to the profession.


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## imagemaker46

I have had enough clients over the years that have hired me as a professional. I've had more photos published in books, magazines, used in tv and film, than you will in your lifetime.  I shot NHL hockey 10 years for Reuters, worked for The Canadian Press and Associated Press, Getty, photos in Time, Newsweek, Sports Illustrated, and a variety of magazines around the world.  Was the Prime Minister of Canada's personal photographer(because they hire amateurs for this position)  Covered eight Summer and Winter Olympic Games, four Pan American Games, four World Figure Skating Championships, World Indoor track and Field Championships, and shot Professional football for the past four decades.  After 2 years of owning a camera you have me pegged, I have scammed all these people into believing I knew how shoot, and you in the span of two days figured me out.

My clients seem to like what I shoot.


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## imagemaker46

brian_f2.8 said:


> imagemaker46 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> brian_f2.8 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Moderators - sorry to have this tangent. Please feel free to close this thread anytime. Is there a way I can block imagemaker from future threads? He could be the biggest tool on this forum.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ya they can lock the thread, Jason or John, feel free to shut this down.  He has made his point, although I'm not sure what it is, perhaps it's just his 2 years of photography talking and his overall lack of experience and skill, his refusal to answer questions or back up his position on how he became an expert in my world, and his inability to recognize what working as a professional photographer is all about.  Whatever point he has tried to make, It is lost in translation.  The hamster in his head that drives the wheel is starved of oxygen and his random thoughts on how to not be professional by producing clean and evenly lit images seems lost on me.  I will continue to try and get those clean and well lit images.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Again never said I was an expert in your world. You think you are the god of photography. You are a joke to the profession.
Click to expand...


I was given a shirt by a group of photographers that has "photo god" on it, so it's not just me, but thanks for that.


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## brian_f2.8

Thats a great resume but one thing is your attitude and personality is not professional. You come to forums and talk down to peoples work. I dont care who you are. People are learning and they ask for CC to get others opinions. I dont go on other threads and bash other people as if I want others to praise me.

Are you retired? What are you currently working on now? Can you post your most recent work and educate us all.

I figure people out pretty quick. Again I dont consider your work top notch professional. I dont care who your clients are. Canada is much different than the USA. 

Maybe you have a good portfolio but your site isnt good work. It seems like a typical gallery of events - editorial content. Nothing says WOW with all your clients and experience.

I stated specific reasons why your work isnt professional. Can you critique my portfolio and state reason's.


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## pixmedic

Unfortunately, i am unable to close threads outside of the photo challenge section.  I do think this thread has probably run its course though.


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## Devinhullphoto

imagemaker46 said:


> I have had enough clients over the years that have hired me as a professional. I've had more photos published in books, magazines, used in tv and film, than you will in your lifetime.  I shot NHL hockey 10 years for Reuters, worked for The Canadian Press and Associated Press, Getty, photos in Time, Newsweek, Sports Illustrated, and a variety of magazines around the world.  Was the Prime Minister of Canada's personal photographer(because they hire amateurs for this position)  Covered eight Summer and Winter Olympic Games, four Pan American Games, four World Figure Skating Championships, World Indoor track and Field Championships, and shot Professional football for the past four decades.  After 2 years of owning a camera you have me pegged, I have scammed all these people into believing I knew how shoot, and you in the span of two days figured me out.
> 
> My clients seem to like what I shoot.



That resume says something to me. That something is that you obviously know how to work a camera and people wanna pay you for that skill. I haven't looked at your work and all that but that is a solid résumé IMO. 

I'm nowhere near a pro. I'm a hobby photographer. Probably wont ever become pro.


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## brian_f2.8

Yes it has, and I would like to block him from future post. The guy is always negative. Hind sight is 20/20 and thats how he lives and works.


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## imagemaker46

No not retired, taking a little time off after having a heart attack three weeks ago after putting in a 50 hour 3 day shoot. Resting up for more heart work in two weeks and then another 20 day shoot, a week after.  Life of a freelancer, can't even rest after heart surgery, when the work is there it has to be done, I have no benefits to fall back on.

As I mentioned earlier I am still scanning old football for the archive.  My web site is commercial, I post most things that are considered of historical value to the Canadian Football League, this is the only web site of it's kind with photos from 1959-2013.  I posted some of my bio to give you and others a base line of my experience.  This is something that you have not done, as you don't really have one, and yet you are very quick to make a judgement as to me personally without even knowing who I am. As far as your gut feeling on figuring people out quickly, you are about as far off the mark this time.

Go back to what I originally posted about your images, I did not say anything negative at all, I made an accurate observation, that was all, I complimented you on using different angles, showed that you were at least looking.  You were the one that came back back with the "I'm credentialed" As if to say, "I got a pass, I'm important", which meant nothing to me as I was just looking at the photos you posted, nothing more and nothing less, isn't that why you posted them so people would comment?  did you notice that only a couple of people took the time to say anything, and they weren't raving about them either.

You can keep preaching the "you're not professional" all you want, means nothing coming for an amateur with only 2 years of photographic experience.


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## imagemaker46

Devinhullphoto said:


> imagemaker46 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have had enough clients over the years that have hired me as a professional. I've had more photos published in books, magazines, used in tv and film, than you will in your lifetime.  I shot NHL hockey 10 years for Reuters, worked for The Canadian Press and Associated Press, Getty, photos in Time, Newsweek, Sports Illustrated, and a variety of magazines around the world.  Was the Prime Minister of Canada's personal photographer(because they hire amateurs for this position)  Covered eight Summer and Winter Olympic Games, four Pan American Games, four World Figure Skating Championships, World Indoor track and Field Championships, and shot Professional football for the past four decades.  After 2 years of owning a camera you have me pegged, I have scammed all these people into believing I knew how shoot, and you in the span of two days figured me out.
> 
> My clients seem to like what I shoot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That resume says something to me. That something is that you obviously know how to work a camera and people wanna pay you for that skill. I haven't looked at your work and all that but that is a solid résumé IMO.
> 
> I'm nowhere near a pro. I'm a hobby photographer. Probably wont ever become pro.
Click to expand...


My web site address is in this thread somewhere, if you're interested in seeing what is considered the work of an amateur.


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## brian_f2.8

Anyone who says they are a professional photographer is a joke. There is not test, no standard, you dont need a degree to work in the field. Its an art form that artist use the word pro to justify themselves. 

The word professional is used too often in this field. I know people who shoot on the side that do better work than full time shooters. A pro might be considered by one who makes 100% of their income through photography - yes hard to argue that in a financial sense. 

Think of it this way Jackson Pollack is a famous artist - for what splatter paint? Then look at Monet and his work - amazing. Photography is an art and its how one person wants to portray to the public.


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## Devinhullphoto

brian_f2.8 said:


> Anyone who says they are a professional photographer is a joke. There is not test, no standard, you dont need a degree to work in the field. Its an art form that artist use the word pro to justify themselves.
> 
> The word professional is used too often in this field. I know people who shoot on the side that do better work than full time shooters. A pro might be considered by one who makes 100% of their income through photography - yes hard to argue that in a financial sense.
> 
> Think of it this way Jackson Pollack is a famous artist - for what splatter paint? Then look at Monet and his work - amazing. Photography is an art and its how one person wants to portray to the public.



Jackson Pollock is a fantastic artist. He did more than just his famous "drip" paintings. His painting Lavender currently is the highest selling painting of all time I believe. "Dumb" or not, it's art. Look into Mondrian if you wanna see "dumb art"


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## brian_f2.8

I agree, but you see my point?


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## Devinhullphoto

By the way I wasn't directing that towards you, just towards the general public that views Pollock as dumb.


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## Devinhullphoto

brian_f2.8 said:


> I agree, but you see my point?



Yeah. The beauty is in the eye of the beholder... or something like that. Lol

Everyone had different tastes and what I may think is an amazing photo or painting may not be as intriguing to someone else.


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## brian_f2.8

yep, i agree.


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## imagemaker46

brian_f2.8 said:


> Anyone who says they are a professional photographer is a joke. There is not test, no standard, you dont need a degree to work in the field. Its an art form that artist use the word pro to justify themselves.
> 
> The word professional is used too often in this field. I know people who shoot on the side that do better work than full time shooters. A pro might be considered by one who makes 100% of their income through photography - yes hard to argue that in a financial sense.
> 
> Think of it this way Jackson Pollack is a famous artist - for what splatter paint? Then look at Monet and his work - amazing. Photography is an art and its how one person wants to portray to the public.



I agree 100% about the word professional being used too much in photography, I have been saying this since I started on this forum.  I have also said that there are amateurs on this forum that are good enough that they could work full time as professionals, and that there are people working as professionals that are really nothing more than amateurs.  It is an over used word.  There is more to being professional than the word, and that word is used in every field of employment.  This just happens to be the photo forum.  I make all my money from photography, always have, probably always will.  I work hard at what I do, I have an attitude when I need it, I am laid back and easy going when I work, I am relaxed because I do know what I am doing, and this comes from experience. I spend a lot of prep time getting ready for shoots so that there are no surprises, my clients have other things to worry about, they never have to worry about the product that I can deliver.  I adapt to schedule changes and make things work when it doesn't look like they will.  I show up prepared, first in, last out. I show professional courtesy to other photographers that I am working around, I respect the fact that we all have a job to do and if I can help any of them out with my knowledge and experience I do so without question.  Acting like a professional while on the job is why I have clients that like to work with me.


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## amolitor

If there was a market for inflated and inflamed egos, I'm be in here with a canning factory right now.


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## tirediron

I don't think we're going to acheive anything useful here.  Everyone go outside and take a picture of something!


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