# Do I need to get a permission to shoot this?



## photographyfanatic (Apr 4, 2009)

If I go to an event, like a school baseball game, a dirt bike race, a swim meet, ect.., shoot pictures there and then post them to my website with the purpose of directing the parents and athletes there to view and hopefully buy prints, do I need their permission to take their picture? Do I need the consent of the parents to shoot and post pictures?  Anyone have experience with this? Thanks


----------



## skieur (Apr 4, 2009)

Generally speaking an event in a public place can be photographed and the photos posted in most areas of the US and Canada.

If however you are on school property and a school rep. says No Photos, then you are trespassing if you continue to take pictures.  Even in this situation, you do not require permission to take photos and can assume permission untill and unless you are told otherwise.  Even then the photos taken are still your property.

I have never had any problem shooting school events, printing shots, and displaying and publishing them without releases.  By the way, one factor complicating the issue is that parents and schools are as much unaware of the laws in this regard as anyone else.

skieur


----------



## Blank (Apr 4, 2009)

The short answer is NO. You do not need permission as long as your stated intent is just how you described.

The complex answer is (consult a lawyer for legal definition), common courtesy will at minimum have you let the organizer - principal - coach - anyone you think should be told, you are there as a freelance photographer covering the event. In this overly sensitive age (with every right to be!), photography is on the verge of a black cloud art or profession. An increasing number of people are becoming suspicious of individuals with any camera that resembles something more than a regular store bought point and shoot.

If you are approached, do not cause conflict, do not state "this is my right" kind of lines, be polite and if a parent asks you to not photograph their child, simply oblige. Chances are, they will eventually look at your work and change their mind at future events.

If an organizer approaches you, follow the same tactic above. If you are approached, chances are you have done something to draw their attention (been in an area you shouldn't have been, complaints from athletes if your flash affects them, etc). This paragraph alone could spark an entire "photographers rights thread", I dont want to get into. Just be courteous and ask orghanizer's, etc, if you can be there.

If you are approached by another photographer who is there for the same reason and you have gained permission to be there, get their business card, best know what your competition is. Now, if they are hostile towards you, you have no choice but to duke it out to the death! (i'm kidding).

If your intent is to photograph a person or persons for commercial intent (advertising a consumable item with a recognisable face/person), you not not only need permission, but also a model release).

I have the shortest fuse in history, but as a working freelance photographer, I have quickly realized that displaying aggressive gorilla tactics to people/persons who are simply asking what I am doing, will get me nowhere, when it comes to selling prints.


----------



## skieur (Apr 4, 2009)

Blank said:


> The short answer is NO. You do not need permission as long as your stated intent is just how you described.
> 
> The complex answer is (consult a lawyer for legal definition), common courtesy will at minimum have you let the organizer - principal - coach - anyone you think should be told, you are there as a freelance photographer covering the event. In this overly sensitive age (with every right to be!), photography is on the verge of a black cloud art or profession. An increasing number of people are becoming suspicious of individuals with any camera that resembles something more than a regular store bought point and shoot.
> 
> ...


 
Agreed.  There are lots of different potential situations depending on where you live and the nature of the particular event.  I have been to some where there are photographers all over the place, including journalists and tv people and the pros keep out of each other's way and there are absolutely no problems.

As you point out, the important aspect is to try and be tactful and polite and avoid anyone is openly hostile (a rare but possible occurence).  

skieur


----------



## Chairman7w (Apr 4, 2009)

That is a great post, Blank, thanks for all the useful info.



Blank said:


> The short answer is NO. You do not need permission as long as your stated intent is just how you described.
> 
> The complex answer is (consult a lawyer for legal definition), common courtesy will at minimum have you let the organizer - principal - coach - anyone you think should be told, you are there as a freelance photographer covering the event. In this overly sensitive age (with every right to be!), photography is on the verge of a black cloud art or profession. An increasing number of people are becoming suspicious of individuals with any camera that resembles something more than a regular store bought point and shoot.
> 
> ...


----------



## SwitchFX (Apr 5, 2009)

Make sure to get parent permission! There was a huge lawsuit in California a year ago of some company who posted shots of kids under 18 at high schools. Poor kids got scared to death with whatever creeps that company was.


----------



## skieur (Apr 5, 2009)

Without the details, I would ignore the California law suit anyway, but, particularly if you are NOT in California.

skieur


----------



## SwitchFX (Apr 5, 2009)

skieur said:


> Without the details, I would ignore the California law suit anyway, but, particularly if you are NOT in California.
> 
> skieur


Teen swimmers' photos put on gay sites - Other sports- nbcsports.msnbc.com


----------



## roadkill (Apr 6, 2009)

Bert P. Krages Attorney at Law Photographer's Rights Page
there's what your looking for


----------



## skieur (Apr 6, 2009)

SwitchFX said:


> Teen swimmers' photos put on gay sites - Other sports- nbcsports.msnbc.com


 
These photos are taken "out of context" and used in a quasi-advertising manner to promote the gay lifestyle and as such violate current law.  Grounds for a law suit certainly, but based on the use of the photos, not taking the pictures.

skieur


----------



## itznfb (Apr 6, 2009)

skieur said:


> These photos are taken "out of context" and used in a quasi-advertising manner to promote the gay lifestyle and as such violate current law. Grounds for a law suit certainly, but based on the use of the photos, not taking the pictures.
> 
> skieur


 
i'm guessing the point was that once the pictures are on the internet anyone can come along and use them for whatever purpose suits them. which may not be in the best interest of the subject.


----------



## skieur (Apr 6, 2009)

itznfb said:


> i'm guessing the point was that once the pictures are on the internet anyone can come along and use them for whatever purpose suits them. which may not be in the best interest of the subject.


 
Photos can be taken of anyone in a public place in the US.  No permission is required.  Any advertising use of such photos however requires a model release.  Use that negatively affects a person's reputation could be considered defammatory.  The use mentioned would seem to be advertising in that it promotes the gay lifestyle and perhaps defammatory in that it implies that those in the photos are gay when that is probably not the case.

No one can use a photo on the Internet for whatever use that suits them.
The laws related to publishing and display still apply to the web, as well as less directly related laws such as defammation.

skieur


----------



## photographyfanatic (Apr 6, 2009)

OK well if I just shoot a highschool event that took place in a public place, then hand out my buisness card and say  if you want to view or buy go to website would i need a model release to post the pictures? They would also be used eventually to promote my services.


----------



## skieur (Apr 6, 2009)

No, you do not need a release, but what I would do, is the following:

To ease any concerns from parents or the school, I would put the photos in a password protected area of my website, so they are not posted for everyone on the Internet. I would put the password on the back of the business card handed out.

In the selling process, if it is done on the net, I would make up a short sales agreement that permits my use of any photo in my portfolio, in my studio, on my web site etc.

Then as well as any laws, I am also covered by the concept of "due dilligence" related to the original postings and a contract related to others used to promote the web site.

skieur


----------



## itznfb (Apr 6, 2009)

skieur said:


> Photos can be taken of anyone in a public place in the US. No permission is required. Any advertising use of such photos however requires a model release. Use that negatively affects a person's reputation could be considered defammatory. The use mentioned would seem to be advertising in that it promotes the gay lifestyle and perhaps defammatory in that it implies that those in the photos are gay when that is probably not the case.
> 
> No one can use a photo on the Internet for whatever use that suits them.
> The laws related to publishing and display still apply to the web, as well as less directly related laws such as defammation.
> ...


 
i didn't mean they would use them legally. but that is a reason why someone would not want their picture taken and put on the internet. i know many people that would never give permission for their picture to be put online. as i said, anyone can come along and use that picture however they want. it may not be legal, but they will do it anyway. if this happens to a picture you have taken of someone and never got their permission, i could see that ending badly.


----------



## roadkill (Apr 6, 2009)

depends on if your making money on it


----------



## skieur (Apr 10, 2009)

roadkill said:


> depends on if your making money on it



No, it doesn't, actually.

skieur


----------



## skieur (Apr 10, 2009)

itznfb said:


> i didn't mean they would use them legally. but that is a reason why someone would not want their picture taken and put on the internet. i know many people that would never give permission for their picture to be put online. as i said, anyone can come along and use that picture however they want. it may not be legal, but they will do it anyway. if this happens to a picture you have taken of someone and never got their permission, i could see that ending badly.



I don't think you understand.  If someone else uses your photo illegally, then it is their problem not yours.  If you took the photo legally, then you are on the high ground.

skieur


----------



## Marc Kurth (Apr 10, 2009)

photographyfanatic said:


> If I go to an event, like a school baseball game, a dirt bike race, a swim meet, ect.., shoot pictures there and then post them to my website with the purpose of directing the parents and athletes there to view and hopefully buy prints, do I need their permission to take their picture? Do I need the consent of the parents to shoot and post pictures?  Anyone have experience with this? Thanks



Are you a student at that school, or a scary looking old man in a long rain coat?

No, it doesn't change the law - but I'm leading you in a direction to think about building relationships as being just important as the legal side. Once you prove yourself even a little bit, you will find the athletes doing their best best to perform for the camera while getting their job done.

As I said in your other thread, check to see if the school already has an exclusive contract with another photographer for this service.


----------



## Jon, The Elder (Apr 12, 2009)

> or a scary looking old man in a long rain coat?


Watch it Marc.........that would be me on any given day.


----------

