# Professional Gallery? Qualified to post?



## tmjjk (Oct 8, 2012)

I am now being paid for different images that I capture... some family shots, a couple low budget weddings, and children.  Doesn't make me a professional photographer of course.  That is the goal... Who is allowed to post in the professional gallery??  Am I asking for trouble posting here?  I don't seem to be getting much feedback when I post in the people gallery...


----------



## TheoGraphics (Oct 8, 2012)

This is a nice group shot, well done! You can post wherever you'd like as far as I'm concerned, haha. Post up some more!

The only CC I would give you is just a little nit pick - you have the girls going in order of height, so maybe do it for the guys too? Also, maybe a touch of lens correction as I can see that the awning above them is slightly bowed. Nothing big.


----------



## tmjjk (Oct 8, 2012)

Thank you!


----------



## TonysTouch (Oct 8, 2012)

+1 to heigth order.


----------



## ceejtank (Oct 8, 2012)

Perhaps the issue is with how you're posting your pictures.. I havent seen your other posts.. but this post doesn't ask for C&C.. if you just post a picture, and expect people to give C&C, but don't ask for it.. it might not happen.  Some people post photos just to show, some people post to receive critique.. it's important you ask for what you want when posting.


----------



## ceejtank (Oct 8, 2012)

For C&C on the photos.. the floor boards are showing the lens distortion as well.  Bowed down in the same spot the awning is bowed up.


----------



## manaheim (Oct 8, 2012)

If you get paid, you're a pro.  You may be an inexperienced pro... you may even be a not so good pro, but you're still a pro.  Don't let anyone tell you differently.

Nice shot.  Cute, too.  And the exposure seems to be pretty much spot on... I can see details in the blacks and the whites, the color depth is really nice, and the outside and inside are both exposed really well.  Frankly, you demonstrated quite a bit of skill in just this one shot and I'm not sure I could consistently pull of a shot that well myself... and I've shot like 12 weddings.


----------



## tmjjk (Oct 8, 2012)

I agree.... I was second shooting and I suggested to the main photog... and he said... Oh no, it's fine.  Lol... and who am I to say another word .  This was a freebie wedding "for the experience" and I was ok'd to keep the images and use as I wish (marketing my photography).  Thank you for any constructive criticism.  A huge mistake I made was too tightly framing.  I had to edit in space to be able to crop to standard print size.  OOPs... I learned a lesson for sure.


----------



## tmjjk (Oct 8, 2012)

Thank you Manaheim... you absolutely made my week.  I thought I was gonna get creamed posting here!  The distortion in the images is MY fault.  I tried to add space to be able to crop to standard print sizes.  NEXT time.. I think it would be wise for me to back up!


----------



## tmjjk (Oct 8, 2012)




----------



## tmjjk (Oct 8, 2012)

Figured this might be a little cheesy...


----------



## unpopular (Oct 8, 2012)

Why did the "Mr." get the "&"? Clearly this is an example of the chauvinism inherent to the institution of marriage!


----------



## jamesbjenkins (Oct 8, 2012)

Pretty sure nobody's going to stop you from posting in this subform. However, the expectations of images posted here are much higher than other areas on the site. If you're an aspiring photog, but don't consider yourself a "pro" yet, no worries.

Do you really care what a bunch of anonymous Internet people think as long as you get quality C&C?


----------



## Barachias (Oct 10, 2012)

Tina this pic is awesome, and i am sure you are a professional photographer. I am glad you are specialized in motion photography. Cuz i am also learning motion photography and i think its too difficult, but very interesting and attractive.


----------



## cgipson1 (Oct 10, 2012)

So why not start your own thread, instead of hijacking someone else's thread?


----------



## tmjjk (Oct 10, 2012)

I will make sure to remove exif data before posting anything else in the Pro gallery


----------



## 2WheelPhoto (Oct 10, 2012)

Nice, for the sake of critique I may hve had the "Mr" guy hold the sign from underneath to be uniform such as the gal's


----------



## cgipson1 (Oct 10, 2012)

tmjjk said:


> I will make sure to remove exif data before posting anything else in the Pro gallery



yea... that would be very professional. Just hide the exif....


----------



## unpopular (Oct 10, 2012)

this is why I never used the "P for professional" mode. 

Not being a professional I knew if I did the APA would fine me.

---

but seriously Charles. You know this doesn't really matter. It's poor technique, but in the end - who cares.


----------



## 2WheelPhoto (Oct 10, 2012)

hah


----------



## cgipson1 (Oct 10, 2012)

unpopular said:


> this is why I never used the "P for professional" mode.
> 
> Not being a professional I knew if I did the APA would fine me.
> 
> ...



So it is OK for professionals to user PROGRAM now.. and let the camera do the work? Which means any moron with a decent camera that has a decent PROGRAM mode can call themselves a professional, after a month or two of learning how to use program mode?
*
I say that in PROGRAM mode.. it is the CAMERA being the professional, the monkey holding it is just a camera transport device.
*
(and we wonder why the profession has taken such a nose dive in quality, profitability, and reputation?)


----------



## pixmedic (Oct 10, 2012)

I guess we are going back to how you have to use equipment to be considered a professional. I prefer aperture priority personally...sometimes shutter if i have moving objects. But since im not a pro, i guess i would be allowed to use program mode. Maybe i should set WB on auto too instead of picking my light source, but that would probably be cheating too.


----------



## 2WheelPhoto (Oct 10, 2012)

I may use aperture and shutter priorities to see an initial "whats the camera think in this situation - but the rare times i do *a switch to "manual"* quickly follows


----------



## tmjjk (Oct 10, 2012)

I almost always shoot in priority mode... Sometimes shutter.  I was a second shooter for this wedding and the main photog asked me to shoot in Program mode.  I was just kidding about removing exif data from future images posted.   This was my very first wedding... And it was a learning gig... The only money received was a very nice tip.  The family was very happy with the pics... The main photogs images apparently "didn't turn out".  Ouch Charlie.... A monkey???


----------



## unpopular (Oct 10, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> unpopular said:
> 
> 
> > this is why I never used the "P for professional" mode.
> ...



I didn't mean that, more just that the customer isn't going to have the EXIF printed on the back. You're going to get more flexibility with proper AE or Manual mode, but no better pictures.

You know full well I never advocate Program mode, and strongly believe that people should completely understand manual photography before auto-anything - this includes auto-lens-changing (aka zoom lenses)


----------



## pixmedic (Oct 10, 2012)

cgipson1 said:
			
		

> So it is OK for professionals to user PROGRAM now.. and let the camera do the work? Which means any moron with a decent camera that has a decent PROGRAM mode can call themselves a professional, after a month or two of learning how to use program mode?
> 
> I say that in PROGRAM mode.. it is the CAMERA being the professional, the monkey holding it is just a camera transport device.
> 
> (and we wonder why the profession has taken such a nose dive in quality, profitability, and reputation?)



Is using program mode that much different from "getting it close enough" in camera and using software to fix the photo? Isnt that the program doing the work?


----------



## cgipson1 (Oct 10, 2012)

pixmedic said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It takes skill and knowledge to get it right in camera (which is what a true professional should do). It takes skill and knowledge to properly use editing software to enhance photos..  again what a professional should be doing. 

Using program mode, and charging for it... is a joke. Standard MWAC / Facebook PRO stuff.  And as far as the fact goes that the OP didn't charge because this was a freebie for experience... what did she learn? That PROGRAM will get her KUDOS and the right to post in the professional gallery? 

WOW... what a precedent to set!


----------



## Derrel (Oct 10, 2012)

Might just be about time for a couple of glasses of calm-down bourbon over ice, methinks...


----------



## pixmedic (Oct 10, 2012)

I dont know why this issue continues to make people mad. I dont personally know anyone that shoots in auto and charges. but if i did, i really wouldnt care about it because it doesnt affect me or my wifes business one bit. I like AP, the wife is more manual or SP and how we or anyone else shoots shouldnt have any effect on the rest of the photography world. It just makes the complainers sound pompus.


----------



## cgipson1 (Oct 10, 2012)

Derrel said:


> Might just be about time for a couple of glasses of calm-down bourbon over ice, methinks...



Maybe there should be a "Not really that Professional Gallery" ?  lol!


----------



## tmjjk (Oct 10, 2012)

I was hoping to get some C&C and it has been lacking in the other forums.  I figured I would get a little negative attention here... but this wasn't what I expected.  I thought you would give advice on how to improve my images other than just insult which mode my camera was set at.  Oh well.... I guess I can take the advice, NOT to use program mode...  great construction to improve


----------



## unpopular (Oct 10, 2012)

Was it a bad morning in the server room, Gipson?


----------



## cgipson1 (Oct 10, 2012)

unpopular said:


> Was it a bad morning in the server room, Gipson?



NO.. not at all!


----------



## cgipson1 (Oct 10, 2012)

tmjjk said:


> I was hoping to get some C&C and it has been lacking in the other forums.  I figured I would get a little negative attention here... but this wasn't what I expected.  I thought you would give advice on how to improve my images other than just insult which mode my camera was set at.  Oh well.... I guess I can take the advice, NOT to use program mode...  great construction to improve



How does one improve one's photography shooting in PROGRAM mode? The camera makes all the decisions.... what input did you have? 

I could comment on composition or something... but all that is secondary to being able to get a good exposure, proper DOF, and knowing HOW to use your camera. I don't care how good someone is at framing, composition or anything else... if you can't use your camera, it is useless!


----------



## unpopular (Oct 10, 2012)




----------



## amolitor (Oct 10, 2012)

Seriously? There's a discussion of whether it's acceptable for a professional to use Program Mode? Seriously?

Grow up.


----------



## tmjjk (Oct 10, 2012)

exif data intact....

I took my son outside for a few manual shots....


----------



## TheoGraphics (Oct 10, 2012)

So THAT'S what that "M" thingy on my camera stands for!






...just kidding. 

LOL at harassing OP because he/she used "P" mode for a few shots. We've got some pretty big heads on this forum. 

Who cares how they took the photo? As long as the results are presentable, I couldn't care less how they achieved the shot. 

To the OP: If using "P" mode works for you in certain situations, that's great! Just keep a good knowledge of manual settings in case you have to take care of it yourself. Don't let a few elitist a-holes kill your drive to continue learning.


----------



## tmjjk (Oct 10, 2012)

Thank you... I really think the main photog was unsure of my ability to shoot in manual so that is why he requested that I shoot in Program mode.  I wasn't insulted  I was extremely happy and grateful for the experience.  And after, he gave me his images and asked me to edit them... a huge compliment.  I will continue to learn!  I study and shoot every single day!  I come here hoping to learn more... and I do!  Thank you all..... even you Charlie... you just wait, I will knock your socks off one day


----------



## TheoGraphics (Oct 10, 2012)

You'll go far with an attitude like that! Keep posting!


----------



## unpopular (Oct 10, 2012)

OMG! OP used Program mode but actually knows how to use a camera!!!

I feel so bamboozled.


----------



## amolitor (Oct 10, 2012)

P mode, at least on Nikons, is pretty awesome. I don't use it because it didn't exist when I was learning this stuff, but every now and then I feel like maybe I ought to. Does it do the same thing on Canons? That is, let you easily flick through all the shutter/aperture combinations that will yield the metered exposure (plus exposure compensation)?

It's also probably a good learning tool, since it'll shove the equivalent combinations in front of you over and over and over.


----------



## unpopular (Oct 10, 2012)

from what I've seen on by my Sony and Contax bodies is that it just tries to find a "best scenario" according to a programmed lookup table so that everything is as moderate as possible.


----------



## amolitor (Oct 10, 2012)

Nikon, at least, distinguishes between Auto modes and Program mode. Program mode is just a sort of combined Aperture/Shutter priority mode thing.


----------



## tmjjk (Oct 10, 2012)

Program mode is not full automatic there's a little room for adjustment ....

Program AE: This is the first mode in the Creative Zone of the Mode dial. Program AE works similarly to the Full Automatic exposure mode, but allows more control over the exposure variables. Aperture and shutter speed are automatically selected by the camera, but you can bias the exposure to larger or smaller apertures by turning the Main dial, which will change the combination of aperture and shutter speed so as to maintain the same exposure value, but with a different combination of aperture/shutter speed.


----------



## cgipson1 (Oct 10, 2012)

tmjjk said:


> Program mode is not full automatic there's a little room for adjustment ....
> 
> Program AE: This is the first mode in the Creative Zone of the Mode dial. Program AE works similarly to the Full Automatic exposure mode, but allows more control over the exposure variables. Aperture and shutter speed are automatically selected by the camera, but you can bias the exposure to larger or smaller apertures by turning the Main dial, which will change the combination of aperture and shutter speed so as to maintain the same exposure value, but with a different combination of aperture/shutter speed.



Yea.. so it is better than full AUTO.. but it still takes a lot of control away from the photographer! I can't help but wonder if those images would have been as good as they are, if the camera hadn't done most of the work!  Guess we will never know, will we? That is the problem with Auto or Program.. are you taking the shot, or is whoever programmed those functions taking the shot?


----------



## unpopular (Oct 10, 2012)

... my new camera smells like grandma.


----------



## MLeeK (Oct 10, 2012)

tmjjk said:


> I was hoping to get some C&C and it has been lacking in the other forums.  I figured I would get a little negative attention here... but this wasn't what I expected.  I thought you would give advice on how to improve my images other than just insult which mode my camera was set at.  Oh well.... I guess I can take the advice, NOT to use program mode...  great construction to improve



But you already posted these for CC and got quite a bit of good help on them. Why post them again? 

As for P mode being useful? Eh. I don't really think it is, but I do have a girl I will have use it this week. She has no desire to learn what she is doing, no desire to learn what aperture and shutter do, no desire to process raw, NADA, nothing other than wearing that camera around her neck and feeling cool. I am pretty OK with the fact that she just wasted a grand on a camera that she'll use in auto forever. 
BUT... she wants to pay me to edit some images this week. I won't take them if they aren't raw, so P mode it is. 
Would I instruct a student to shoot in P mode? Nope. I'll explain it and I'll explain how it can hinder you if you get that lazy and let you decide. 
If it works for you? I couldn't really care less-UNLESS you want to improve, which I assume you do... SOoooo, then its the get out of P mode talk.


----------



## tmjjk (Oct 10, 2012)

MLeeK said:


> tmjjk said:
> 
> 
> > I was hoping to get some C&C and it has been lacking in the other forums.  I figured I would get a little negative attention here... but this wasn't what I expected.  I thought you would give advice on how to improve my images other than just insult which mode my camera was set at.  Oh well.... I guess I can take the advice, NOT to use program mode...  great construction to improve
> ...




The CC and I am asking for isn't necessarily for these images... I was testing the waters to see if I should begin posting here... I SINCERELY appreciate you taking the time you do to help MLeek!


----------



## Overread (Oct 10, 2012)

*thread locked pending moderation*


----------



## terri (Oct 10, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> unpopular said:
> 
> 
> > this is why I never used the "P for professional" mode.
> ...


*"Photography is a marvelous discovery, a science that has attracted the greatest intellects, an art that excites the most astute minds  and one that can be practiced by any imbecile."

**-Nadar (Gaspard Felix Tournachone), 1856*

Note the date of this quote (one of my favorites!)    In some form or other, this is a very old argument.      Get over yourself, Charlie.   

Now can everyone please calm down while I clean up this thread?    If we can't stay on topic it's going to have to be locked.    

To the OP: post away!   There isn't a test to pass before coming here.     If you can stand the heat from your fellow pros, you'll do fine!


----------



## tmjjk (Oct 10, 2012)

I think I'm gonna have a glass of wine... And post a new thread in the morning... In the professional gallery  I will make sure I shoot in manual when I do though  lol sheesh!


----------



## terri (Oct 10, 2012)

tmjjk said:


> I think I'm gonna have a glass of wine... And post a new thread in the morning... In the professional gallery  I will make sure I shoot in manual when I do though  lol sheesh!


cheers!   (glasses clink)


----------



## unpopular (Oct 10, 2012)

I was all like "auto mode? program mode? there's a difference?" I had to actually look at my camera to see if there was an "auto" mode ... there is. I went to see what it did.

I can't even imagine taking pictures like that. Of course I've used point and shoots, but when I get my hands on a DSLR I instinctively think in terms manipulating exposure. Having it dance around like that without any input other than EC actually kind of confused me.

Funny how context changes things.


----------



## MLeeK (Oct 11, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> tmjjk said:
> 
> 
> > Program mode is not full automatic there's a little room for adjustment ....
> ...



I have to kind of disagree to agree. 
If a 'professional photographer' is using program mode  and the images come out good with what the photographer was intending for them to look like, what do *we* care? 
The photographer loses some serious control and in all actuality can't create the image in mind, but as long as it's working for them? Who cares? It's THEIR business, THEIR limits and they are not degrading me or you or anyone else in doing it. I won't hit a ceiling because someone else shot in program or auto. 
*
Now someone who is asking for critique and ways to improve*? Then they get the answer for how to improve. Which I (hope?) think is where this all started. 
Posted here everything is opened for critique and how to improve the next time-so the answer then is to get out of program mode, take control and to give the tools to do that. 
The answer isn't "YOU SUCK CUZ YOU SHOT IN PROGRAM MODE!!!!" It's that you need to get out of program mode and really control the image and here are the tools to learn and do that or what do you need to help you do that. 

We make a big dramatic production out of this around here and argue over every little thing. The bottom line is that the OP is looking to improve and take the next step. Do we help forward and get out of program mode or do we say "hey, whatever, dude. Stay in program mode! It's working for you!"


----------



## amolitor (Oct 11, 2012)

Program mode (on my camera) in conjunction with exposure compensation allows total control (within +/-5 stops of the metered reading, which is usually plenty). It is functionally identical to aperture or shutter priority. It's just an alternative way of working. Plenty of pros have used aperture priority over the decades.

Program mode is a way of working that is, I admit, foreign to me, so I don't use it.


----------



## unpopular (Oct 11, 2012)

yeah, but in manual mode, I can, if I wanted to, over/under expose by 10 stops! so neener neeener!


----------



## MLeeK (Oct 11, 2012)

amolitor said:


> Program mode (on my camera) in conjunction with exposure compensation allows total control (within +/-5 stops of the metered reading, which is usually plenty). It is functionally identical to aperture or shutter priority. It's just an alternative way of working. Plenty of pros have used aperture priority over the decades.
> 
> Program mode is a way of working that is, I admit, foreign to me, so I don't use it.


This is just my opinion... and I don't function well in any priority mode to begin with (TOTALLY inept.) BUT... that sounds infinitely more complicated to me than even working in a priority mode. AND it still requires the knowledge of what those things are doing to set your parameters... so... it would seem to me that shutter or aperture priority would have been easier anyway. 


Or I could be wayyyyy off base too. Like I said... totally inept.


----------



## tmjjk (Oct 11, 2012)

I typically do not shoot in Program mode... I promise lol.  It was per request by the main photog, who I learned isn't so much the pro as I thought, that I shoot in P mode.  I was HIS assistant so I listened and did what he asked.  I prefer aperture priority, sometimes shutter priority, and sometimes even manual.  I do have to put more thought into the manual shooting.  I am fairly new to this photography stuff and I get nervous quickly.  If an image does not appear in my preview screen as I would like it to... most of the time I have a good idea how to fix it.  I have a good idea on how shutter, aperture, and iso relate to one another.  I still have SO much to learn I know this.  But my intentions and determination to improve everyday will make me great one day.  It's the realization that I can improve and learn more, and try new things that will lead me to excellence ( one day, not soon, lol).  I feel a little sad for those who think they have it all figured out and will not strive for anything else or reach for that next level.... they unfortunately have peaked.  I am just beginning!


----------

