# Switching to mirrorless.. Nikon or Sony?



## f18

Hey guys,

I have been thinking a lot about switching to mirrorless, and recently I was reading about the new Nikon 1 V3. It looks really nice, especially as it comes with the EVF etc. I was thinking it was a choice between either that or the NEX7. I've been looking at comparisons such as this one (Nikon 1 V3 vs Sony NEX-7 - Cameras Specs Comparison), and it seems quite even. The 1 V3 comes with an EVF which I like, and the EXPEED 4 seems to be great with that 20fps, although I don't think I really need that! The focus system seems superior too.

On the other hand I think I trust Sony more when it comes to mirrorless, the sensor is bigger and there are more (I think?) lenses available. Also the sample shots of the V3 don't look so great.... https://www.flickr.com/photos/nikonfrance/sets/72157642287620513

Actually, after writing the pros and cons out, I am definitely leaning towards Sony.. Any advice?

Thanks


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## ronlane

Have you considered the Fuji Film x-t1 or x-100s? This is something that I have been considering as a second body more for travel and street photography.


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## goodguy

If I would consider mirrorless I wouldnt go with either.
Currently the only mirrorless camera that really impresses me is the Sony A7 or A7R
If thats not for you then the Fuji X-T1 as ronlane said is a good option and there are few more like the Olympus OM-D camera line which I heard is impressive.


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## SpikeyJohnson

I would go to a high end sony or go to a fuji. I'm not impressed with the v3, it has a small sensor for it's price.


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## ConradM

The Sony a6000 comes out this month which replaces I think the NEX7. Its boasting the fastest AF ever. 

Amazon.com: Sony Alpha a6000 24.3 MP Interchangeable Lens Camera with 16-50mm Power Zoom Lens: SONY: Camera & Photo


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## goodguy

ConradM said:


> The Sony a6000 comes out this month which replaces I think the NEX7. Its boasting the fastest AF ever.
> 
> Amazon.com: Sony Alpha a6000 24.3 MP Interchangeable Lens Camera with 16-50mm Power Zoom Lens: SONY: Camera & Photo


Yep saw the a6000, very impressive camera but the way I see it in the mirrorless world currently there are 2 kind of cameras the A7/A7R and everything else.
The A7/R was voted camera of the year and I think that speak volume!!!


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## ConradM

goodguy said:


> ConradM said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Sony a6000 comes out this month which replaces I think the NEX7. Its boasting the fastest AF ever.
> 
> Amazon.com: Sony Alpha a6000 24.3 MP Interchangeable Lens Camera with 16-50mm Power Zoom Lens: SONY: Camera & Photo
> 
> 
> 
> Yep saw the a6000, very impressive camera but the way I see it in the mirrorless world currently there are 2 kind of cameras the A7/A7R and everything else.
> The A7/R was voted camera of the year and I think that speak volume!!!
Click to expand...


Yeah, I don't follow mirrorless as much... I just pay attention to FPS and AF speeds as I do a lot of action shooting. So if it were looking for mirrorless I'd be all over the a6000. 

I think someone on the Sony subforum said the A7 was best for landscape?


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## goodguy

ConradM said:


> goodguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ConradM said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Sony a6000 comes out this month which replaces I think the NEX7. Its boasting the fastest AF ever.
> 
> Amazon.com: Sony Alpha a6000 24.3 MP Interchangeable Lens Camera with 16-50mm Power Zoom Lens: SONY: Camera & Photo
> 
> 
> 
> Yep saw the a6000, very impressive camera but the way I see it in the mirrorless world currently there are 2 kind of cameras the A7/A7R and everything else.
> The A7/R was voted camera of the year and I think that speak volume!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, I don't follow mirrorless as much... I just pay attention to FPS and AF speeds as I do a lot of action shooting. So if it were looking for mirrorless I'd be all over the a6000.
> 
> I think someone on the Sony subforum said the A7 was best for landscape?
Click to expand...

a6000 probably would be better for sports, for general use the A7/R is very good.

My only worry with Sony is that they seems to be all over the place, they dont seem to focus at one thing in particular and I dont know in the long term is it smart to commit to a system that I dont know 100% if it will be there in lets say 5 years from now.
In general we can see there is a big change starting to sweep the photography world but I dont think anyone knows exactly what is going to be the next standard.
Thats why I rather stick to DSLR, it will not go away anytime soon, its a proven mature technology and I am sure while it looks like both Canon and Nikon are not showing any interest in moving ahead that they have deep in their R&D basement room the prototype for the next big thing (well I hope so anyways).


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## ConradM

goodguy said:


> ConradM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> goodguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yep saw the a6000, very impressive camera but the way I see it in the mirrorless world currently there are 2 kind of cameras the A7/A7R and everything else.
> The A7/R was voted camera of the year and I think that speak volume!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I don't follow mirrorless as much... I just pay attention to FPS and AF speeds as I do a lot of action shooting. So if it were looking for mirrorless I'd be all over the a6000.
> 
> I think someone on the Sony subforum said the A7 was best for landscape?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> a6000 probably would be better for sports, for general use the A7/R is very good.
> 
> My only worry with Sony is that they seems to be all over the place, they dont seem to focus at one thing in particular and I dont know in the long term is it smart to commit to a system that I dont know 100% if it will be there in lets say 5 years from now.
> In general we can see there is a big change starting to sweep the photography world but I dont think anyone knows exactly what is going to be the next standard.
> Thats why I rather stick to DSLR, it will not go away anytime soon, its a proven mature technology and I am sure while it looks like both Canon and Nikon are not showing any interest in moving ahead that they have deep in their R&D basement room the prototype for the next big thing (well I hope so anyways).
Click to expand...


I'm confident the Alpha mount will be around for a while. Sony may move away from using a mirror in the SLT's but as long as it's still A mount it doesn't much matter.


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## Ysarex

The Nikon V was a bad idea from inception; the V3 is a bad idea with duct tape.

Sony is schizophrenic and doesn't know who they're making cameras for. Here they go abandoning the NEX now. The A7 is a great camera Sony just forgot one thing: lenses. Oops! those can be important if you want to actually use the camera. If you buy a Sony camera Sony will abandon you in their next schizophrenic episode.

Fuji rules mirrorless. Fuji makes cameras for photographers. Fuji makes lenses for the cameras they make for photographers.

Back in the old film days we had rule: Lenses take pictures, cameras hold film. In other words you buy a lens and/or lens system as first priority and then you select the camera body to use with those lenses. It's a little more complex today, but that should still be the rule.

If you look at the Nikon V system lenses, the Sony system they're currently abandoning or forgot to fully create lenses, and the Fuji XF system lenses a logical choice becomes crystal clear.

Joe


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## ConradM

Ysarex said:


> The Nikon V was a bad idea from inception; the V3 is a bad idea with duct tape.
> 
> Sony is schizophrenic and doesn't know who they're making cameras for. *Here* *they go abandoning the NEX now.* The A7 is a great camera Sony just forgot one thing: lenses. Oops! those can be important if you want to actually use the camera. If you buy a Sony camera Sony will abandon you in their next schizophrenic episode.
> 
> 
> 
> Joe



Please tell us more about how the axxxx series isn't replacing the NEX series... Or does a different naming scheme = abandoning?


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## Ysarex

ConradM said:


> Ysarex said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Nikon V was a bad idea from inception; the V3 is a bad idea with duct tape.
> 
> Sony is schizophrenic and doesn't know who they're making cameras for. *Here* *they go abandoning the NEX now.* The A7 is a great camera Sony just forgot one thing: lenses. Oops! those can be important if you want to actually use the camera. If you buy a Sony camera Sony will abandon you in their next schizophrenic episode.
> 
> 
> 
> Joe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please tell us more about how the axxxx series isn't replacing the NEX series... Or does a different naming scheme = abandoning?
Click to expand...


I'm not the only one who's noticed: f?-t?-gr?-f?: Sony's Upcoming Full-Frame NEX-9 Makes Me Angry (UPDATED: Names are A7 and A7r)


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## nzmacro

All Sony has done is drop the name NEX for marketing reasons. The shape and design of the A6000 is exactly the same based design as the old NEX series. I use at the moment a NEX-7 and will happily go to the range finder shape that Sony has kept from the NEX and add an A6000 to the NEX-7. 

At the end of the day, what's in a name. Same shape, same design, etc. Heck Sony changes a name and the world is ending  

The A7 and A7r seem to be amazing cameras for IQ. Its the lenses that are not there yet unless you add an adaptor to take the Sony SLR or SLT lenses, then you have fast PDAF, but without any stabilisation. By all accounts they seem to be not built for fast action, where as the A6000 seems to be. A few decent reviews need to be seen first though. It offers several advantages that the NEX-6 and NEX-7 miss out on. So that's all a bit of a bonus. 

If Sony has the lens range that suits what you take, its a good system, but you need to make sure the lenses you want are in that system. For a lot, its lacking, for others its fine. For me I couldn't care less because I only use Canon legacy lenses on the NEX anyway, but it is a big deal for others.

M4/3 also have some excellent cameras if you can live with a smaller sensor. Also a great range of lenses for the m4/3 system as well. 

Look at that date on that article you linked to Yasrex ....... *Wednesday, October 2 2013*. The A6000 is out and about now. Specualtaion is a worry on the net 

All the best and just my views.

Danny.


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## Ysarex

nzmacro said:


> All Sony has done is drop the name NEX for marketing reasons. The shape and design of the A6000 is exactly the same based design as the old NEX series. I use at the moment a NEX-7 and will happily go to the range finder shape that Sony has kept from the NEX and add an A6000 to the NEX-7.
> 
> At the end of the day, what's in a name. Same shape, same design, etc. Heck Sony changes a name and the world is ending
> 
> The A7 and A7r seem to be amazing cameras for IQ. Its the lenses that are not there yet unless you add an adaptor to take the Sony SLR or SLT lenses, then you have fast PDAF, but without any stabilisation. By all accounts they seem to be not built for fast action, where as the A6000 seems to be. A few decent reviews need to be seen first though. It offers several advantages that the NEX-6 and NEX-7 miss out on. So that's all a bit of a bonus.
> 
> If Sony has the lens range that suits what you take, its a good system, but you need to make sure the lenses you want are in that system. For a lot, its lacking, for others its fine. For me I couldn't care less because I only use Canon legacy lenses on the NEX anyway, but it is a big deal for others.
> 
> M4/3 also have some excellent cameras if you can live with a smaller sensor. Also a great range of lenses for the m4/3 system as well.
> 
> Look at that date on that article you linked to Yasrex ....... *Wednesday, October 2 2013*. The A6000 is out and about now. Specualtaion is a worry on the net
> 
> All the best and just my views.
> 
> Danny.



I know axxxx = NEX -- not a good specific example but the overall assessment of Sony as unstable stands. Changing the system name after 4 years for what reason? They make some great cameras. I've personally bought 5 Sony cameras in the last decade. Still there's a reason the Pros don't use them and it's not because the cameras are no good. The systems are full of holes; they can't design a consistent camera and stick with it; and the Pros are in business and it's bad for business if one of your partners keeps going off their meds.

Joe


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## nzmacro

Sony have already stated why  NEX was becoming the name of the camera system and not Sony Alpha. They have always been been named Alpha, but NEX was taking over the Sony brand name with that series of cameras which has always been Alpha. Simple easy marketing strategies, but who are we to argue marketing when we know little about the Sony corporation. 

Your bad news for changing the name is short term only, eventually once the NEX name is dead and gone, it all becomes normal  That won't take long at all as new NEX based designs come about, next year it won't even matter. Rumours and bloggers that get involved with corporate decisions must feel foolish as Sony produces cameras that they said Sony gave up on. It is kind of humorous IMO. 

That is an old post on that site and already proved wrong with the design issue. I am a NEX-7 user, so he is wrong there for a start, I couldn't care lees what Sony calls it, the camera I use still works and its also very old news now in this fast moving industry. But to each their own. 

All the best.

Danny.


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## Ron Evers

The micro four thirds cameras have a large choice of bodies & lenses but the damn small sensors just cannot cut the mustard.  

You think?

Check out this link:

Featured: 'Mu43 Wedding Experience' by SSSYURRR


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## nzmacro

Ron Evers said:


> The micro four thirds cameras have a large choice of bodies & lenses but the damn small sensors just cannot cut the mustard.
> 
> You think?
> 
> Check out this link:
> 
> Featured: 'Mu43 Wedding Experience' by SSSYURRR



Where did you read that Ron ??

I used m4/3 for two years. Not a problem but it does have a smaller sensor and the crop factor is interesting for sure.

Danny.


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## Derrel

What about Olympus as a good choice in m4/3 mirrorless? I think the Olympus OMD series is pretty nice if a guy wants a mini-dslr-type styled mirrorless; Sony has smaller bodies available, but the lenses are bigg-ish. Fuji went with the slightly bigger APS-C sensor size instead of m4/3, and unlike SONY, seems to actually be listening to real buyers, instead of wandering off on 18-month tangents and dropping everything on a whim and confusing the hell out of the people who bought earlier Sony gear.

Seems to me that Fuji with their APS-C sized sensors and their X-system offerings is a good choice in mirrorless, and then in m4/3, Olympus and Panasonic seem pretty well-positioned and with nice products and lenses that can interchange between brands. All three of those companies actually seem to SHOW that they WANT your business and your loyalty. SONY OTOH, just seems to me to want your credit card digits and the expiry date and the three-digit code and then they're like, "Oh, hey, thanks, now eff you, buddy!" after that...


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## Ron Evers

nzmacro said:


> Ron Evers said:
> 
> 
> 
> The micro four thirds cameras have a large choice of bodies & lenses but the damn small sensors just cannot cut the mustard.
> 
> You think?
> 
> Check out this link:
> 
> Featured: 'Mu43 Wedding Experience' by SSSYURRR
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where did you read that Ron ??
> 
> I used m4/3 for two years. Not a problem but it does have a smaller sensor and the crop factor is interesting for sure.
> 
> Danny.
Click to expand...


For one example, in your post above.  "M4/3 also have some excellent cameras if you can live with a smaller  sensor. Also a great range of lenses for the m4/3 system as well. "

I bought into the system @ day one, with the Pany G1.  

Check out the link I provided.


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## nzmacro

Ron Evers said:


> nzmacro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ron Evers said:
> 
> 
> 
> The micro four thirds cameras have a large choice of bodies & lenses but the damn small sensors just cannot cut the mustard.
> 
> You think?
> 
> Check out this link:
> 
> Featured: 'Mu43 Wedding Experience' by SSSYURRR
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where did you read that Ron ??
> 
> I used m4/3 for two years. Not a problem but it does have a smaller sensor and the crop factor is interesting for sure.
> 
> Danny.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For one example, in your post above.  "M4/3 also have some excellent cameras if you can live with a smaller  sensor. Also a great range of lenses for the m4/3 system as well. "
> 
> I bought into the system @ day one, with the Pany G1.
> 
> Check out the link I provided.
Click to expand...


You must be reading it wrong Ron, I didn't say .....



> _The micro four thirds cameras have a large choice of bodies & lenses but the damn small sensors just cannot cut the mustard. _



You said that. It has a smaller sensor and if you can live with that, its a fine system. Same as the Nikon series 1 system. It has a smaller sensor and if you can live with that its fine. You seem to be reading in things that were not said for some reason. Some of my best shots are with m4/3 cameras. Weddings don't interest me Ron, I crop a lot, so I get to pixel peep most of the images. I used m4/3 for two years Ron as I said. There is no issue with it 

Are you telling me it doesn't have a smaller sensor Ron ?? The crop factor is interesting for what I take. I actually like it  

All the best Ron, don't try and quote things I never said please.

Danny.


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## ecphoto

f18 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I have been thinking a lot about switching to mirrorless, and recently I was reading about the new Nikon 1 V3. It looks really nice, especially as it comes with the EVF etc. I was thinking it was a choice between either that or the NEX7. I've been looking at comparisons such as this one (Nikon 1 V3 vs Sony NEX-7 - Cameras Specs Comparison), and it seems quite even. The 1 V3 comes with an EVF which I like, and the EXPEED 4 seems to be great with that 20fps, although I don't think I really need that! The focus system seems superior too.
> 
> On the other hand I think I trust Sony more when it comes to mirrorless, the sensor is bigger and there are more (I think?) lenses available. Also the sample shots of the V3 don't look so great.... https://www.flickr.com/photos/nikonfrance/sets/72157642287620513
> 
> Actually, after writing the pros and cons out, I am definitely leaning towards Sony.. Any advice?
> 
> Thanks



The Nikon hands down!

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk


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## Ron Evers

nzmacro said:


> Ron Evers said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nzmacro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where did you read that Ron ??
> 
> I used m4/3 for two years. Not a problem but it does have a smaller sensor and the crop factor is interesting for sure.
> 
> Danny.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For one example, in your post above.  "M4/3 also have some excellent cameras if you can live with a smaller  sensor. Also a great range of lenses for the m4/3 system as well. "
> 
> I bought into the system @ day one, with the Pany G1.
> 
> Check out the link I provided.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You must be reading it wrong Ron, I didn't say .....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _The micro four thirds cameras have a large choice of bodies & lenses but the damn small sensors just cannot cut the mustard. _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You said that. It has a smaller sensor and if you can live with that, its a fine system. Same as the Nikon series 1 system. It has a smaller sensor and if you can live with that its fine. You seem to be reading in things that were not said for some reason. Some of my best shots are with m4/3 cameras. Weddings don't interest me Ron, I crop a lot, so I get to pixel peep most of the images. I used m4/3 for two years Ron as I said. There is no issue with it
> 
> Are you telling me it doesn't have a smaller sensor Ron ?? The crop factor is interesting for what I take. I actually like it
> 
> All the best Ron, don't try and quote things I never said please.
> 
> Danny.
Click to expand...


My point was the often criticism of the m4/3 small sensor, which you mentioned, in my exact quote of yours.   My link, I thought, would dispel fears of m4/3 "small sensors" for folk not yet knowledgeable of the system.


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## Ysarex

nzmacro said:


> Sony have already stated why  NEX was becoming the name of the camera system and not Sony Alpha. They have always been been named Alpha, but NEX was taking over the Sony brand name with that series of cameras which has always been Alpha. Simple easy marketing strategies, but who are we to argue marketing when we know little about the Sony corporation.
> 
> Your bad news for changing the name is short term only, eventually once the NEX name is dead and gone, it all becomes normal  That won't take long at all as new NEX based designs come about, next year it won't even matter. Rumours and bloggers that get involved with corporate decisions must feel foolish as Sony produces cameras that they said Sony gave up on. It is kind of humorous IMO.
> 
> That is an old post on that site and already proved wrong with the design issue. I am a NEX-7 user, so he is wrong there for a start, I couldn't care lees what Sony calls it, the camera I use still works and its also very old news now in this fast moving industry. But to each their own.
> 
> All the best.
> 
> Danny.



I agreed the NEX name change wasn't a good example. Doesn't mean Sony's not nuts though. Quick Google search:

"The Alpha 900 represents in a nutshell the almost schizophrenic nature of Sony's digital camera division...." Sony Alpha DSLR-A900 Review: Digital Photography Review
"Sony's top management team suffered from managerial schizophrenia." Sony vs Samsung: The Inside Story of the Electronics Giants' Battle For ... - Sea-Jin Chang - Google Books
"....since Sony has been totally schizophrenic in its camera naming scheme and nomenclature lately)." Time to post | itsnotthecamera
"Which Sony? They are so schizophrenic they frequently sue themselves."  iPhone Infringes On Sony, Nokia Patents, Says Federal Jury - Slashdot
"Sony Music is Schizophrenic enough all on it's own." Can Sony's new supremo make the sacrifices to save his biz? ? The Register Forums
"But plans changed or Sony is just down right schizophrenic." Sony 13.3-Inch Digital Paper Ships Out in May for $1,100 / ?803
"Because Sony is schizophrenic and will develop an entirely new system before coming out with any lenses beyond the f/4 zoom, orphaning all 4 of their existing systems before any are fully developed." A look under my Christmas Tree! Nikon Df, Leica M, Sony A7r and the Olympus E-M1! | STEVE HUFF PHOTOS
"A Cure For Sonys Schizophrenia?" FurdLog » A Cure For Sony?s Schizophrenia?
"Sony is schizophrenic." Sony reveals Move Server for PC | GamesIndustry International
"Sony, in traditional schizophrenic style, went on to produce several generations with varied specs...." The Jig is Up!: A Sony PlayStation 3 Review - Years Late
"....versus Sony's schizophrenic platform support...." One Billion Sold: Why Microsoft XBox Live Has the Best Online Strategy - CBS News
"Do you remember Sony's schizophrenic marketing a few years ago...." Microsoft: Xbox isn't a gaming console - Console Gaming - General Discussion Forums at MMORPG.com

I know some of those are old links, but that's because we've known for a long time (incurable after all). Like I said, I wasn't the first to notice. Even DPReview called them schizophrenic in the review of the A900.

I agree they make some excellent cameras, but you can't trust the company; the Pros know this and stay away.

Joe


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## nzmacro

Ron Evers said:


> nzmacro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ron Evers said:
> 
> 
> 
> For one example, in your post above.  "M4/3 also have some excellent cameras if you can live with a smaller  sensor. Also a great range of lenses for the m4/3 system as well. "
> 
> I bought into the system @ day one, with the Pany G1.
> 
> Check out the link I provided.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You must be reading it wrong Ron, I didn't say .....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _The micro four thirds cameras have a large choice of bodies & lenses but the damn small sensors just cannot cut the mustard. _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You said that. It has a smaller sensor and if you can live with that, its a fine system. Same as the Nikon series 1 system. It has a smaller sensor and if you can live with that its fine. You seem to be reading in things that were not said for some reason. Some of my best shots are with m4/3 cameras. Weddings don't interest me Ron, I crop a lot, so I get to pixel peep most of the images. I used m4/3 for two years Ron as I said. There is no issue with it
> 
> Are you telling me it doesn't have a smaller sensor Ron ?? The crop factor is interesting for what I take. I actually like it
> 
> All the best Ron, don't try and quote things I never said please.
> 
> Danny.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My point was the often criticism of the m4/3 small sensor, which you mentioned, in my exact quote of yours.   My link, I thought, would dispel fears of m4/3 "small sensors" for folk not yet knowledgeable of the system.
Click to expand...


Ron, I never complained about the m4/3 sensor. In simple terms, its a small sensor. In fact the Nikon 1 sensor appeals for the smaller sensor and crop factor. I had a V2 bird shooter send me a full RAW image of a Kingfisher, this one here from the DPR forum ....

Re: N1 V2 with AF-S 500 f4 VR & TC20E III - FoV 2700mm: Nikon 1 System Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

Even as a RAW its stunning in sharp details !!. As the guy said though, watch out if you need to crop an image a fair bit. 

Here's some I follow using m4/3 and you probably already know the names, but then again, maybe not. These appeal for what I take. Bob, Trev and Cole

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bobtullis


https://www.flickr.com/photos/46756347@N08/


https://picasaweb.google.com/trevorfcarpenter/Birds2013Part2

BTW, the EM1 appeals.

All the best Ron, but don't read the wrong things into my comments. 

Danny.


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## brunerww

Hi f18 - you've gotten a lot of good advice already - all I would add is that, if your heart is set on getting a Sony, you should pre-order the newer camera - the A6000 with the 16-50 power zoom.  It will cost you less money than a body-only NEX-7 and will give you updated features (e.g., more focus points, a faster frame rate for continuous shooting, wi-fi and NFC).

Hope this is helpful!

Bill


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## Victo

Is the m4/3 sensor large enough to allow for DoF control needed for portraiture? How wide does one need to shoot with m4/3 to have a shallow enough depth of field?


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## nzmacro

Victo said:


> Is the m4/3 sensor large enough to allow for DoF control needed for portraiture? How wide does one need to shoot with m4/3 to have a shallow enough depth of field?



I was using long fast Canon lenses on m4/3, so my DOF was always razor thin anyway. Just looking at what Panasonic has alone without the Oly lenses ....

Panasonic Lenses: Digital Photography Review

A good range of native lenses for sure. Noticed the 45.2mm F/1.2, probably something along those lines, but I don't know enough about portraits. Mind you it's around $1500 US, so its not exactly cheap. 

Panasonic Leica DG Nocticron 42.5mm F1.2 ASPH OIS: Digital Photography Review

All the best and have a look at the Oly lenses as well.

Danny.


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## vimwiz

Considered the EOS M? -Its basically a 650D, you can get the EF adapter and use any EF and EF-S lenses.

Now the M2 is out in Asia, you can pick up  a clearance M with the speedlite 90EX for like £250-300 quid (Same price as a low spec DSLR kit)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Canon-EOS-C...?ie=UTF8&qid=1396737383&sr=8-1&keywords=EOS+M


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## theHomelessJedi

I work in a retail camera store, I never recommend the Nikon over the Sony mirrorless.  The Sony's have larger sensors, more lens selection, and it's obvious Sony took more time designing them since they are currently revamping the entire line. i.e. Sony A6000.  I agree with ronlane and would definitely consider looking into Fuji as well.  My store isn't a Fuji dealer so I can't tell you much more than what I've read. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## agp

I am a happy X-T1 owner. The lens selection isn't very broad, but what are available are able to get the job done. If you get an X mount you can open the door to Leica lenses.


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## EOSfotografie

I used the Sony NEX 5 6 and 7 and still have a 3n. I did can not get used by the handeling en menu structure of the Sony. Also had the opportunity to try the 7r. but also dit not like the handeling. Also the service of Sony is in the Netherlands not so good. I had some bad experience with them. Sony has also not that much good native glass. When wanting good class you have to look had the zeis. 

Also did test the Canon M. But this feels like a toy and not in balance with the lenses. Canon as missed the boat so far. 

Also use a Fujifilm X Pro1 and X T1 and like these camera the most. After using the X T1 for a few months I decided to sell the Canon set. (5D3 24-70 II 70-200 II etc) Fujifilm has a very nice lineup of high quality glass. Like the 56mm is a very good fast prime


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## Patriot

I'm looking at the Soyt A7R myself.


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## bif

nzmacro said:


> M4/3 also have some excellent cameras if you can live with a smaller sensor. Also a great range of lenses for the m4/3 system as well.



This is the route I took.  I picked up a bargain Olympus E-PL1 on sale to try out the system and compare with the Canon APS-C bodies and EF lenses (incl 2 "L" series) I was using at the time.  At 72 I was looking to quit playing "packmule" with heavy glass and the m4/3 fit the bill perfectly.  I sold off the Canon stuff and went mostly Panasonic with the GH2 and began acquiring lenses.  Went with the GH3 when it came out, and now getting used to the new GH4.  By making the change I lost NOTHING in the way of sharpness or IQ.

Sensor size diff between APS-C and 4/3s is negligible but whatta difference in the weight of gear I wind up packing on any given project.  Primary focus is motion picture but being a retired professional photographer I want decent stills that go up to 16x20 and larger without a problem.  The selection of "native" optics for m4/3 is about the most extensive in the mirrorless arena and most of it is excellent.

My 2 cents worth and probably worth what you just paid for it.


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## bif

Victo said:


> Is the m4/3 sensor large enough to allow for DoF control needed for portraiture? How wide does one need to shoot with m4/3 to have a shallow enough depth of field?



Portraiture was one of the main things I did until retirement and I still do enough to keep my "hand in".  I have no problem with DOF control for portraiture with m4/3.  I use f5.6 to f1.8 on a 14-45mm "kit" lens at the 45mm end, f5.6-f1.8 on the Oly 45mm and 75mm primes, and the entire zoom range of the Lumix 45 to 200mm f4 - f5.6 lens (and same with the Oly 40-150mm).  Aperture is only one aspect of DOF control; perspective, proper management of camera to subject distance and subject to background elements distance, and lens focal length all factor in.

Many have fun describing how "bad" kit lenses can be but I've seen some nice selective focus work (somewhat "shallow" DOF) done with the much maligned 18-55mm Canon "kit" lens and same with the Olympus and Lumix 14-42mm "kit" lens.  Depends on the experience level, knowledge, and visual sense of the individual behind the camera.

I've done portraiture with 4x5 view camera, 70mm long roll electric advance cameras, 6x7cm RB67's, 6x6cm Hasselblads, 35mm SLR (Nikon & Canon), APS-C, and now m4/3.  I can generally get what I want, film or sensor size has not been a constraint.


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## Tinderbox (UK)

I have had the Nikon J4 with 18mp sensor same one as in the Nikon V3 i think, i previously has the S1 with an 10mp sensor, I found the J4 photo`s very noisy unlike the S1 photo`s 18mp is too much for an 1" sensor.

I also has the Sony 3N and it`s a great camera with a full aps-c sensor but i still prefered the Nikon S1 photo`s

John.


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## Monday

I am a pretty avid Nikon fan, but for mirror less Sony is winning the game currently. I would have a look at the a7r


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## Vince.1551

Will IQ drop if I attach an adaptor to take other lenses with different mount?


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## gsgary

Vince.1551 said:


> Will IQ drop if I attach an adaptor to take other lenses with different mount?



What do you think ? expensive Voigtlander close focus adapter and Voigtlander 50mmF1.5 asph M mount on A7







Same lens wide open @ F1.5 and close focus wide open


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## bif

Vince.1551 said:


> Will IQ drop if I attach an adaptor to take other lenses with different mount?



That's going to depend on the individual lens characteristics.  Older lenses with less contrast and a tendency to flare will perform with less apparent IQ than modern lenses.  Some like the "softer" look and go after older "legacy" lenses.  One thing to look out for is attempting to adapt Canon EF lenses to bodies that cannot electronically control the aperture.  Micro Four Thirds bodies especially.

Those adapters that are advertised to offer either electronic aperture control or an aperture of their own are often very expensive or may not work as well as advertised.

IMO the best overall solution is one of the Micro Four Thirds bodies and the fairly extensive selection of "native" Olympus m.Zuiko and Panasonic Lumix lenses that fit them.  If still photos are what you're after the Olympus E-M5, E-M10, or E-M1 may fit the bill.  If you are looking at motion picture (video) the Panasonic Lumix GH4 is king "hands down" and also does a very creditable job on stills as well.  The GH3 is a very good buy at lower cost but the EVF in that model can be problematic.  The GH4 solved that issue.

I have an Oly E-M5, Panasonic Lumix GX7, GH3, and GH4.  I have a couple of Nikon F mount lenses but much prefer the "native" Micro Four Thirds offerings by Oly and Panasonic for their very much superior IQ.


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## sashbar

bif said:


> Sensor size diff between APS-C and 4/3s is negligible but whatta difference in the weight of gear I wind up packing on any given project.



4/3 sensor is *178* sq. mm 
APS-C sensor is 329 sq. mm 

So the difference is *151* sq. mm. That means APS-C sensor is 84% larger. Not exactly "negligible".


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## Vince.1551

Gsgary & Bif thanks for the feedback


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## Tinderbox (UK)

Just bought an Samsung NX30 for £800 , but Samsung has an old camera trade-in and you get £200 cash back at the moment in the UK, I have an nice 6 year old Canon A590 for them.

John.


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## bigal1000

Niether


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## sonicbuffalo

bigal1000 said:


> Niether




Niether is spelled Neither


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## unpopular

X or NEX, also. I wouldn't even consider Nikon. I think it's a pretty dead platform for one, and second smaller than APS-C has advantages, it's not going to mean anything unless you're either into experimenting with strange lenses or need very long telephoto lengths.

I recently got an XE1, and have been extremely impressed by the Fuji sensor shared with the rest of the X-pro cameras.


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## unpopular

bif said:


> Vince.1551 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Will IQ drop if I attach an adaptor to take other lenses with different mount?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's going to depend on the individual lens characteristics.  Older lenses with less contrast and a tendency to flare will perform with less apparent IQ than modern lenses.  Some like the "softer" look and go after older "legacy" lenses.  One thing to look out for is attempting to adapt Canon EF lenses to bodies that cannot electronically control the aperture.  Micro Four Thirds bodies especially.
Click to expand...


Well, yes and no. These are more qualities of the older lenses than the adapter. So long as the adapter doesn't have internal correcting lenses (i.e. speed boosting or SLR adaptors for shorter register) then there is no perceivable reason why adapted lenses would perform worse.

Some rangefinder lenses with significant retrofocus may behave oddly however due to that the sensor cannot detect light as easily at a severe angle.


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