# How do you get better at photography?



## echoyjeff222 (Aug 27, 2012)

I've been thinking about this lately, and it seems that even though I enjoy reading tutorials on photography on various websites, I learn the most if I read a few tutorials on the type of photography (landscape, portrait, etc) right before I go out and shoot. Then, I have the information still fresh in my mind and ready to incorporate. However, I think that articles on composition are universal and can be read anytime. 

I spent a few hours the other day just reading random articles on posing for portraits and took notes, but I don't think I'll use it for a lonng time -- and if I do, I'll probably have forgotten about those notes :mrgreen:

What about you? How do you learn?


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## JoshuaSimPhotography (Aug 27, 2012)

TEST! TEST! TEST!
practice makes perfect. I go onto various sites, and see some neat techniques. I then think &#8216;how can these techniques be incorporated with my pics?&#8217;
Something that will suit it. For example, the first time I saw the  light writing technique i was amazed! I thought that it would only work at night and not at day, and it would be able to help tell a story by actually writing words! I then tested and tested! It was great!


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## Jaemie (Aug 27, 2012)

What works for me?



Shooting. Having fun just shooting photos. Practice, in other words.
Looking at photos in books. Often by renowned photographers, but not always. I can do this for hours and hours.
Looking at other art, watching films, visiting museums, hanging out in art schools, googling.
Reading photography articles: camera reviews, lens reviews, industry news, product specs, old articles.
Watching Youtube and other online tutorials, reviews, comparos.
Devoting time where I can do photography 100% without interruption, even if it's for a half hour. No distractions.
Just having fun with it.


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## tirediron (Aug 27, 2012)

For me, it's generally finding something I don't know how to do, or seeing a deficiency in my work, and then figuring out how to overcome or improve it.  For instance when I found my outdoor portraits weren't where I wanted them to be, I stared reading, and then learned about the use of lighting out of doors, and practiced that...


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## KmH (Aug 27, 2012)

Study, apply what I learned, study, apply what I learned, study, apply what I learned, study, apply what I learned, study, apply what I learned, ........................


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## rexbobcat (Aug 27, 2012)

My general procedure is:

-Go take photos.
-***** about all the stuff I messed up.
-Feel bad about how ***** my photos are.
-Leave the photos alone for a few days.
-Come back to them. Take a deep sigh.
-Realize that I didn't do as poorly as I thought, but also realize there are certain things I need to do better.

Lather rinse repeat for a few months and when I go back through my photos I notice improvement. Granted, it's not a whole lot of improvement but it's there. Lol


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## ronlane (Aug 27, 2012)

What ^^^^^ they said. I have spent a lot of time reading and then when something sounds cool, I will go out after work and try it. I spend a lot of time watching youtube and reading this site and a couple of others.


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## Derrel (Aug 27, 2012)

Buy $5,000 to $20,000 worth of gear that you really cannot afford, and then let the overwhelming feelings of guilt push you to new heights of education and achievement. A heavy debt load is a marvelous motivational tool.


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## rexbobcat (Aug 27, 2012)

Derrel said:


> Buy $5,000 to $20,000 worth of gear that you really cannot afford, and then let the overwhelming feelings of guilt push you to new heights of education and achievement. A heavy debt load is a marvelous motivational tool.



Or completely crushing if realize that you underestimated the difficulty/learning curve/time expense needed to get your money's worth. XD


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## rexbobcat (Aug 27, 2012)

Jaemie said:


> What works for me?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You do realize that photography is not about fun right?

It cheapens the craft.


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## skieur (Aug 27, 2012)

Learning what needs to be done in post to improve your shot such as adjusting contrast, colour, lighting, etc can lead  you to learn how to make those improvements behind the camera.

Looking at other people's photos on forums may help you recognize your own mistakes or give you ideas to improve your own shots.

skieur


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## JacaRanda (Aug 27, 2012)

Derrel said:


> Buy $5,000 to $20,000 worth of gear that you really cannot afford, and then let the overwhelming feelings of guilt push you to new heights of education and achievement. A heavy debt load is a marvelous motivational tool.



Now Derrel; who on earth would do such a thing?    Don't answer that!   Sssshhhh   the devil made me do it.


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## PhotoWrangler (Aug 27, 2012)

skieur said:


> Learning what needs to be done in post to improve your shot such as adjusting contrast, colour, lighting, etc can lead  you to learn how to make those improvements behind the camera.





For the record... this is the absolute ass backwards way to do things. You should always strive to get it right in the camera first. Otherwise you're nothing more than a graphic designer... not a photographer.


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## Derrel (Aug 27, 2012)

And we allll know what sleezebags graphic designers are!!! They are like the chimos of the imaging world!!!


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## Jaemie (Aug 27, 2012)

rexbobcat said:


> Jaemie said:
> 
> 
> > What works for me?
> ...



Aw hell, I've been doing it wrong and ruining it for everyone else! Bad, bad, Jaemie.


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## 480sparky (Aug 27, 2012)

echoyjeff222 said:
			
		

> .....What about you? How do you learn?



Go forth and actuate.


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## MLeeK (Aug 27, 2012)

practice practice practice, learn something new, screw it up, get it right then practice it over and over until you can get it right every time. Start all over again with another aspect of photography. Repeat for the next 50 years. 

There are tons of ways to learn the little lessons: Here, YouTube, Books, Tutorials, websites, school, adult ed classes... It's all about how you learn best. I can read something and then apply it. Some people can see something demonstrated and apply it, some have to have hands on training. 
Figure out what kind of learner you are and what you need. Then get yourself to learning!


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## Steve5D (Aug 27, 2012)

When I first bought Photoshop, I didn't know anything beyond cropping, levels, and some cloning.

A friend of mine, who I have a great deal of respect for, put it very simply. He told me to select something in Photoshop that I didn't know how to do, and learn how to do it. Don't work on anything else until I had it down pat. Then pick something else that I didn't know how to do, and do the same thing, and on and on and on.

That's philosophy can be, I think, applied to photography in general.

Find something that will challenge you, and do it until it's no longer a formidable challenge. Then find something else. 

I did (and still do) a great deal of music photography (concerts, magazines, CD, etc). As good as I am with that, I used to take a _really _crappy portrait. So, I resolved to get better at that. I joined a local photo group that works, quite often, with a modeling group. I did a number of those types of shoots. I got comfortable enough with it that and, now, I'm able to charge for portrait work, and have done artist shoots for companies like Mesa Boogie and Bose. 

The point is to keep challenging yourself. You'll use what you've learned in the past, applying it to a new form of shooting. As a photographer, you'll grow and improve. And, if things go right, you always will...


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## pgriz (Aug 27, 2012)

My photography skills are about decent (not great, but not too bad either) after about 40+ years of practice.  What works for me these days is looking at other people's stuff, finding something really nice or intriguing, and then deconstructing it to figure out how it was done.  I'll try to do it myself, and compare my efforts to what I saw.  The process becomes one of "guided discovery" - I have an idea of what the end result should look like, but the path to it is not clear.  I'm not just talking technical - there are some very nice compositions that made me stop and think - and try to understand the feelings I was getting from the images.


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## amolitor (Aug 27, 2012)

Avoid the internet. Well, ok, if you don't really "get" exposure or something, or you want to learn about the basic lighting setups or something, the internet's a good source of basic info for free.

Looking at other people's photographs on forums is just going to teach you bad habits and cheesy gimmicks. Use your local library and get out books of "great" photographs. You might not like them, but *someone* did, see if you can work out why. What on earth is there in this great pile of crap that made it "great"?!!! Then go invent your own bad habits and cheesy gimmicks.


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## wsetser (Aug 27, 2012)

JoshuaSimPhotography said:


> practice makes perfect.



No, practice makes *permanent*. If you practice something wrong, you'll end up doing it wrong every time.


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## Steve5D (Aug 27, 2012)

wsetser said:


> JoshuaSimPhotography said:
> 
> 
> > practice makes perfect.
> ...



Truer words, my friend... truer words...


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## skieur (Aug 27, 2012)

ChristopherCoy said:


> skieur said:
> 
> 
> > Learning what needs to be done in post to improve your shot such as adjusting contrast, colour, lighting, etc can lead you to learn how to make those improvements behind the camera.
> ...



Post processing for film was originally done in a lab.  Post processing of digital is done on a computer.  It has absolutely NOTHING to do with getting it right in the camera, and NOTHING to do with graphic design.

skieur


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## bladerunner (Aug 28, 2012)

One thing that helped me was to look at composition. Take a look at Rembrandt, Caravaggio, or any of the old masters. Look at how the proportions of the image balance, the lighting and contrast, etc. There is a lot to learn there that can be applied to photography as well.


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## gsgary (Aug 28, 2012)

If you had bought the camera from Best Buy you would have been pro by now because they have a special program, "Pro in 1 hour" it comes free with every DSLR they sell


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## PhotoWrangler (Aug 28, 2012)

skieur said:


> Post processing for film was originally done in a lab.  Post processing of digital is done on a computer.  *It has absolutely NOTHING to do with getting it right in the camera*, and NOTHING to do with graphic design.
> 
> skieur




This goes down as the SECOND dumbest thing I've heard on TPF lately. Someone else has been carrying the torch, but you're catching up quickly.


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## gsgary (Aug 28, 2012)

ChristopherCoy said:
			
		

> This goes down as the SECOND dumbest thing I've heard on TPF lately. Someone else has been carrying the torch, but you're catching up quickly.



Its also done in my kitchen


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## Fred Berg (Aug 28, 2012)

Remain modest and make steady progress by combining study, practice and observation.


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## PhotoWrangler (Aug 28, 2012)

I do it in my bathroom.


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## Iron Flatline (Aug 31, 2012)

Haven't read everyone's responses, so this may be redundant... But like any beginning musician, don't be afraid of doing a cover version. Take an image you like, and try to recreate it.


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## skieur (Aug 31, 2012)

ChristopherCoy said:


> skieur said:
> 
> 
> > Post processing for film was originally done in a lab. Post processing of digital is done on a computer. *It has absolutely NOTHING to do with getting it right in the camera*, and NOTHING to do with graphic design.
> ...



  Considering your limited photographic experience, as per your profile, I find your statement laughable. Usually such rationalizations come from those not familiar with computers.

skieur


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## rexbobcat (Aug 31, 2012)

skieur said:
			
		

> Considering your limited photographic experience, as per your profile, I find your statement laughable. Usually such rationalizations come from those not familiar with computers.
> 
> skieur



I'm sure that serving 10 years as head photographic chancellor of Earth allows you to make such judgments.

I feel humbled in your presence.

Looking down on us from a place of obviously higher photographic stature, I'm surprised you socialize with us commoners.


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## jhodges10 (Sep 3, 2012)

Derrel said:
			
		

> Buy $5,000 to $20,000 worth of gear that you really cannot afford, and then let the overwhelming feelings of guilt push you to new heights of education and achievement. A heavy debt load is a marvelous motivational tool.



Nostradamus...er Derrel's got the right idea but he forgot the "and still look through the B&H catalog wanting to spend more."


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## cgipson1 (Sep 3, 2012)

skieur said:


> ChristopherCoy said:
> 
> 
> > skieur said:
> ...



Funny... I think I can claim a little bit of experience! I started shooting when getting it right in camera was the only way to go... because I wasn't that good in the darkroom to start out. Even the people I knew who were considered experts in the darkroom, still advocated getting it as right as possible in camera to minimize the work in the darkroom! 

So Skioor... I find YOUR statement laughable! Extremely! 

Yes.. you can be a crappy photographer, and good in PS.. and get away with it (and I suspect this is how you work, since you advocate it!)... but it is still much better to get it right in the camera. Anyone that says otherwise is full of CHIT!...   You been hanging around the MWAC's or something??


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## 2WheelPhoto (Sep 4, 2012)

take  class...or 10


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## pgriz (Sep 4, 2012)

The best improvement in my photography started to happen when I joined a very active photoclub of about 150 members, with weekly competitions, multiple workshops and presentations, and various mentoring sessions.  Learning from people who know their craft, and can watch you and see what you're doing right or wrong, is so much faster than learning it by trial and error.  I know such photoclubs are not present everywhere, and the quality of the club depends strongly on the membership composition, but if you get lucky, this could be the best investment you can make.


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## luisegonzalez (Sep 5, 2012)

Also, participating in forums such as this one helps in learning what others are trying and what is working for them and what is not.


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## luisegonzalez (Sep 5, 2012)

With over 30 years of practicing the art I have learned that reading new material, searching the net for new images, practicing the techniques that you already know plus trying new ones are crucial parts in advancing your knowledge.
Luis E Gonzalez


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## ahcigar1 (Sep 5, 2012)

What I generally do.

- Study
- Think about what I want in a photo and how to achieve it
- Set up photo to best of my ability
- Shoot
- Review photos
- Think how can improve
- Study more
- Repeat all the above

Oh and I always have fun doing it because I enjoy it.


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## bhop (Sep 5, 2012)

Read less, shoot more.


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## unpopular (Sep 5, 2012)

pfft. If you actually want to work, that's fine. But if you're lazy, you can just sit around on your computer and yammer about it here on TPF.

Your photography won't improve any to anyone else, but from your perspective you're AWESOME. And isn't that all that really matters?


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## 12sndsgood (Sep 5, 2012)

unpopular said:


> pfft. If you actually want to work, that's fine. But if you're lazy, you can just sit around on your computer and yammer about it here on TPF.
> 
> Your photography won't improve any to anyone else, but from your perspective you're AWESOME. And isn't that all that really matters?



See I come on here to get a dose of reality and to remember that I'm not that great at this yet.   I'm always doing stuff backwards.


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## unpopular (Sep 5, 2012)

Yeah. That works to an extent, but also people here tend to have a pretty limited idea of what is good. I mean, I know what you mean - it's easy to get delusional, but at the same time it's good to get a variety of input.


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## table1349 (Sep 5, 2012)

echoyjeff222 said:


> I've been thinking about this lately, and it seems that even though I enjoy reading tutorials on photography on various websites, I learn the most if I read a few tutorials on the type of photography (landscape, portrait, etc) right before I go out and shoot. Then, I have the information still fresh in my mind and ready to incorporate. However, I think that articles on composition are universal and can be read anytime.
> 
> I spent a few hours the other day just reading random articles on posing for portraits and took notes, but I don't think I'll use it for a lonng time -- and if I do, I'll probably have forgotten about those notes :mrgreen:
> 
> What about you? How do you learn?



Practice is the hardest part of learning, and training is the essence of transformation.   
  &#8213;     Ann Voskamp,


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## SCraig (Sep 5, 2012)

Most people have advocated the same things, however there is one thing that nobody has mentioned: *Learn from your mistakes*.  I see some people here doing the same thing over and over and over.  They miss focus or they miss exposure or the miss something and never, ever learn from their mistakes.

When you are starting out your bad shots are just as important as your good ones.  LOOK at the bad ones.  LOOK at the EXIF data and figure out what you did wrong.  IS it over or under exposed?  Why?  It should have been right but it wasn't, so why?  Does the scene have a wide dynamic range that you metered incorrectly?  Is it out of focus?  Why is it out of focus?  Is the depth of field to narrow?  Did your autofocus lens focus on the wrong part of the view?  These are things that anyone can look at and see for themselves.  Don't throw those images away, learn from them.  EXIF data is invaluable and, like many here, I would have given anything for something that handy when I started out.


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## skieur (Sep 5, 2012)

rexbobcat said:


> skieur said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So, you are telling us indirectly that you have a very LIMITED view and knowledge of postprocessing as well.

skieur


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## IByte (Sep 5, 2012)

Lots of Googles, Fro Knows, Adorama TV, d7k manual, mentor, fundamental college course, picking people's brain and practice.


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## fwellers (Sep 9, 2012)

I've been obsessed with photography since I started in 2008. I remember reading early on to look at other's work, and your own, and attempt to understand what about it makes you like or dislike it. 
Well after doing that for 4 years I am just now starting to be able to actually do that and have it make lasting impressions in my mind.  Just now starting to make connections between what I see in a photograph and the many things I've read about compositional elements.

For some of us, ( maybe most of us, but definitely not all of us ), time is a key factor. No matter how hard you try, it takes time to assimilate photographic / artistic truths to the point that you can make use of them.


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## cata1241 (Sep 14, 2012)

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## 2WheelPhoto (Sep 14, 2012)

Bigger lens.  Or Body. Oh and bigger watermark too.


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## Superfitz (Sep 14, 2012)

2WheelPhoto said:
			
		

> Bigger lens.  Or Body. Oh and bigger watermark too.



What is your fascination with big watermarks? You manage to mention that every chance you get.


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## skieur (Oct 3, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> skieur said:
> 
> 
> > ChristopherCoy said:
> ...



The fact that you need to descend to incorrectly spelling my user name shows how empty your comments are :thumbdown: and of course you also make the WRONG assumptions which makes an ASS out of you as well.

You also did not check which is predictable from your little bit of experience, but my photo work on this site has about 1/4 million views which suggests that I must be doing something right. 

skieur


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## Pearlstar (Oct 4, 2012)

fwellers said:
			
		

> I've been obsessed with photography since I started in 2008. I remember reading early on to look at other's work, and your own, and attempt to understand what about it makes you like or dislike it.
> Well after doing that for 4 years I am just now starting to be able to actually do that and have it make lasting impressions in my mind.  Just now starting to make connections between what I see in a photograph and the many things I've read about compositional elements.
> 
> For some of us, ( maybe most of us, but definitely not all of us ), time is a key factor. No matter how hard you try, it takes time to assimilate photographic / artistic truths to the point that you can make use of them.



Hi, just joined up here and have my first DSLR for 15 months with a few hobby courses and workshops under mu belt.  I really appreciate all the wisdom here but especially that getting better at photography is a life-long project that spans several decades (thankfully) which I keep reading between the lines, not something to get frustrated about not having achieved much yet at this stage  like I sometimes feel a bit, which does help push me forward.  I think it's a case of making small wins and small gains to get better steadily over a long time.  As long as you're going in the general direction of improving you're OK


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## Stoikimagic (Oct 5, 2012)

Do you want to learn more about photography.
Honestly, your pictures are good. The only problem is most of them are of common things. Try photographing thing most people over look. Some of my favorite pictures that I've taken were of the trees in my yard after an ice storm. The way the light reflected off of the ice was really beautiful.


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## gsgary (Oct 5, 2012)

Superfitz said:
			
		

> What is your fascination with big watermarks? You manage to mention that every chance you get.



He is taking the piss


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## SCraig (Oct 5, 2012)

skieur said:


> You also did not check which is predictable from your little bit of experience, but my photo work on this site has about 1/4 million views which suggests that I must be doing something right.


Views of a topic mean about as much as "Likes" on Facebook, or in other words: Absolutely nothing whatsoever.


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## spacefuzz (Oct 5, 2012)

Practice Deliberately. The deliberate part is the important part.


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