# intimidating.....



## ARS.photography.MS (Apr 15, 2013)

Saturday I had a session with two beautiful little girls....bear in mind I'm new and not proclaiming to be a professional....BUT have had extremely happy and satisfied clients so far. 
The mother of these little girls contacted me and said "I want pics of the girls!!!! Let me know when!!!" So we finally got a session booked. 
We meet at the local park for outdoor session. The girls run up to me excited and happy and ready...so I'm waiting for mom and she walks up with her own camera, her $5000 professional camera and lens she used when she worked as a photographer at a studio.....omg I was so got off with. I didn't know what to think. For half an hour she follwed us around taking Pics behind me! Soon she went and sat down. By then I was so "nervous" I was shaking! 

Anyone have any advice? How would u handle a situation like this?


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## Tiller (Apr 15, 2013)

I'm wondering why she had you taking pictures at all if she could have easily done it. Did she want to be in the pictures?


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## Designer (Apr 15, 2013)

Did she pay you?


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## ARS.photography.MS (Apr 15, 2013)

Tiller said:


> I'm wondering why she had you taking pictures at all if she could have easily done it. Did she want to be in the pictures?



No she didn't wanna be in pictures...just wanted her girls.....I'm wondering too....


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## ARS.photography.MS (Apr 15, 2013)

Designer said:


> Did she pay you?



Yes she did pay me.....


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## kathyt (Apr 15, 2013)

I would have asked her. I am pretty blunt like that. I have a pretty strict contract as well. If someone hires me they are hiring me for a reason, but that is strange.


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## ARS.photography.MS (Apr 15, 2013)

kathythorson said:


> I would have asked her. I am pretty blunt like that.



Yea...  I'm definitely not a blunt person like that.....it just really got under my skin and I was thinking Wth? Really? Why am I here?


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## imagemaker46 (Apr 15, 2013)

If you're intimidated by a mother and her expensive camera, then you have no business being in the business of taking pictures.  That's how you deal with this.


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## tirediron (Apr 15, 2013)

Expensive gear doth not a professional make.  LOTS of people with more money than skill have top-end gear; doesn't mean they know beans about it though.


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## runnah (Apr 15, 2013)

Next time smash her camera and make her children cry.


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## Designer (Apr 15, 2013)

ARS.photography.MS said:


> Designer said:
> 
> 
> > Did she pay you?
> ...



Then job well done.  Why sweat it?


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## pixmedic (Apr 15, 2013)

ARS.photography.MS said:


> Saturday I had a session with two beautiful little girls....bear in mind I'm new and not proclaiming to be a professional....BUT have had extremely happy and satisfied clients so far.
> The mother of these little girls contacted me and said "I want pics of the girls!!!! Let me know when!!!" So we finally got a session booked.
> We meet at the local park for outdoor session. The girls run up to me excited and happy and ready...so I'm waiting for mom and she walks up with her own camera, her $5000 professional camera and lens she used when she worked as a photographer at a studio.....omg I was so got off with. I didn't know what to think. For half an hour she follwed us around taking Pics behind me! Soon she went and sat down. By then I was so "nervous" I was shaking!
> 
> Anyone have any advice? How would u handle a situation like this?



not to nitpick...but if you are taking paid clients, you are putting yourself out there as a professional. 
As a professional that is getting paid to do a job, you need to be prepared to handle all sorts of situations like this. 
what did your contract say about other photographers taking photos during a shoot? Ours say no other photography during these kinds of shoots. weddings are a little different. but we have a contract for EVERY shoot, even if we are doing one for free for a friend. you have to be willing to bring up the tough questions when these things happen because there's nothing you can do now, after the fact. what would you have done if she had taken a bunch of pictures, and then decided not to pay you?

it is great that all of you clients thus far have been happy with your work, but there is a lot more to a photography business than just taking pictures. 
the two most important things in your photography business are "communication" and "contracts"
have a contract for EVERY shoot. silly as it may sound, do it.  everything should be in writing. i realize most people don't really stick to that one all the time, but we do. call me paranoid. talk to the client. before the shoot, while they are signing the contract, after the shoot. make SURE they are aware of their contractual obligations, as well as what is expected of them if they are going to be present at the shoot, and what to expect as the results of the shoot. 

if you dont have it in writing, you have pretty much zero recourse.  we would have explained to her from the very beginning that other cameras were not allowed, and if that was an issue, we would not have done the job. It sucks turning down work, and i definitely hate doing it, but if you start letting clients do whatever they want at your shoots with you just letting it go, whats to stop clients from starting to dictate your price and packages?

I guess my point is...work out exactly what is expected from you and the client before hand, put it in the contract, explain it all to the client, and make sure they understand it all before they sign. that way, they cant feign ignorance when they start doing stuff you don't want them to on your shoot. 
this is only good of course, if you are willing to stand up and enforce the terms of your contract.


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## ARS.photography.MS (Apr 15, 2013)

runnah said:


> Next time smash her camera and make her children cry.



Bahahahaha needed that laugh


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## ARS.photography.MS (Apr 15, 2013)

Designer said:


> Then job well done.  Why sweat it?



Lol good point! Thanks a bunch


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## ARS.photography.MS (Apr 15, 2013)

pixmedic said:


> not to nitpick...but if you are taking paid clients, you are putting yourself out there as a professional.
> As a professional that is getting paid to do a job, you need to be prepared to handle all sorts of situations like this.
> what did your contract say about other photographers taking photos during a shoot? Ours say no other photography during these kinds of shoots. weddings are a little different. but we have a contract for EVERY shoot, even if we are doing one for free for a friend. you have to be willing to bring up the tough questions when these things happen because there's nothing you can do now, after the fact. what would you have done if she had taken a bunch of pictures, and then decided not to pay you?
> 
> ...



Ok so chalk this up as a learning experience ....got it.....
Contract for all sessions.....got it...
Speak up....state expectations...got it...

THANK YOU! Your post makes lots of sense and I'm very appreciative! I will be sure to definitely start having contracts for sessions....all sessions....

Your advice is very appreciative and informative. Thanks for taking time to advise a noob


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## ARS.photography.MS (Apr 15, 2013)

tirediron said:


> Expensive gear doth not a professional make.  LOTS of people with more money than skill have top-end gear; doesn't mean they know beans about it though.



True.....true....true....


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## Steve5D (Apr 15, 2013)

imagemaker46 said:


> If you're intimidated by a mother and her expensive camera, then you have no business being in the business of taking pictures. That's how you deal with this.





tirediron said:


> Expensive gear doth not a professional make. LOTS of people with more money than skill have top-end gear; doesn't mean they know beans about it though.



I always get a kick out of comments like these.

The OP clearly stated that the woman had worked as a photographer in a studio. Given the description of the camera she had; the one she used in that studio, I'm gonna' go out on a limb and guess that the studio wasn't a mall kiosk.

To the OP, I would've just asked her not to shoot behind you...


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## Steve5D (Apr 15, 2013)

imagemaker46 said:


> If you dont have it in writing, you have pretty much zero recourse.



I often see this. It makes sense. If you don't have a contract, you have no recourse.

It's important to note that this is just as true for the client. ..


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## Michael79 (Apr 15, 2013)

I would've been intimidated, but for the reasons others have stated. I shouldn't be there. 

The only reason why I would've been intimidated was because I wasn't totally confident in my skills. I'm glad you took the challenge head on, and hope you are happy with your results.


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## Michael79 (Apr 15, 2013)

Steve5D said:


> imagemaker46 said:
> 
> 
> > If you're intimidated by a mother and her expensive camera, then you have no business being in the business of taking pictures. That's how you deal with this.
> ...


Not trying to start a debate here, but picture people and sears have some decent equipment, and they hired my wife, whom never even touched a dslr before that. My guess is the reason she hired the OP is because she was out of her element, being a professionally set up studio.


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## kathyt (Apr 15, 2013)

tirediron said:


> Expensive gear doth not a professional make. LOTS of people with more money than skill have top-end gear; doesn't mean they know beans about it though.



Have you been drinking sir?


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## kathyt (Apr 15, 2013)

runnah said:


> Next time smash her camera and make her children cry.



See, this is why we are meant to be together!


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## orljustin (Apr 15, 2013)

ARS.photography.MS said:


> Saturday I had a session with two beautiful little girls....bear in mind I'm new and not proclaiming to be a professional....BUT have had extremely happy and satisfied clients so far.
> The mother of these little girls contacted me and said "I want pics of the girls!!!! Let me know when!!!" So we finally got a session booked.
> We meet at the local park for outdoor session. The girls run up to me excited and happy and ready...so I'm waiting for mom and she walks up with her own camera, her $5000 professional camera and lens she used when she worked as a photographer at a studio.....omg I was so got off with. I didn't know what to think. For half an hour she follwed us around taking Pics behind me! Soon she went and sat down. By then I was so "nervous" I was shaking!
> 
> Anyone have any advice? How would u handle a situation like this?



Don't worry.  You're not "proclaiming to be a professional".


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## jwbryson1 (Apr 15, 2013)

kathythorson said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> > Next time smash her camera and make her children cry.
> ...



:shock:  :shock:  :shock:  BUT.....BUT.....BUT.....    ale:  I thought we had a thing going on here....


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## kathyt (Apr 15, 2013)

jwbryson1 said:


> kathythorson said:
> 
> 
> > runnah said:
> ...



Don't worry jdubs, runnah and I have an open relationship. Plus, I am a player in my newly found single life. I get bored quick.


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## imagemaker46 (Apr 15, 2013)

orljustin said:


> ARS.photography.MS said:
> 
> 
> > Saturday I had a session with two beautiful little girls....bear in mind I'm new and not proclaiming to be a professional....BUT have had extremely happy and satisfied clients so far.
> ...



The Op took money for a shoot, I assume it's not the first time the Op has taken money for a shoot, and by the comments made by so many on this forum that makes the Op a professional, regardless of the statement proclaiming not to be a professional.  Maybe it's a professional amateur situation.  

Why would the mother who has worked as a photographer in a studio hire someone else to take pictures of her own kid, several reasons I suppose, she sucked as a studio photographer, she sucks as a photographer when working in natural light, or she has gear she doesn't know how to use.  I suppose if you got paid, and the photos were better than what the mother shot then everything is just fine now.  What happens the next time when someone hires you and they have a couple of cameras worth more than what you are using, do you slip into a coma?


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## vintagesnaps (Apr 15, 2013)

Or what if her photos turn out way better than yours? You might be lucky if she only asks for her money back. 

Why she brought her own camera who knows, but you need to be in charge of the session and ask. Listen to what Scott (Imagemaker) is telling you; you don't sound prepared for taking photos as a professional and if you're accepting money that's exactly what you're doing.

What are you going to do if a child gets hurt in a session you're directing (outdoors, running or climbing on a playground)? What if you get told you're going to be sued for not providing professional quality photos to a client's satisfaction? Do you have any insurance? backup equipment? etc. etc. Even if something comes up that wasn't specifically mentioned in a contract you need to be prepared to handle whatever happens as a professional business woman.


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## tirediron (Apr 15, 2013)

kathythorson said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> > Expensive gear doth not a professional make. LOTS of people with more money than skill have top-end gear; doesn't mean they know beans about it though.
> ...


No more than usual...


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## Netskimmer (Apr 15, 2013)

Most parents have a tough time staying objective when it comes to their kids, she may have just wanted an impartial party to take/edit the shots. 

Did you see her shots? It could be that she doesn't know what she is doing and was shadowing you in an attempt to learn. The studio she worked for may have not dealt with child portraits, or portraits at all. That is assuming that the whole studio story isn't a flat out lie. She could just be one of the many, many people that underestimate what it takes to get a good photo and went out, bought a high dollar camera and now can't get good pics of her kids but is too embarrassed to own up to it.


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## Steve5D (Apr 16, 2013)

Netskimmer said:


> Most parents have a tough time staying objective when it comes to their kids, she may have just wanted an impartial party to take/edit the shots.



That's probably the most accurate estimation of what happened.

I was going to say "great point", but then you had to follow it up with this nonsense:



> Did you see her shots? _*It could be that she doesn't know what she is doing *_and was shadowing you in an attempt to learn. The studio she worked for may have not dealt with child portraits, or portraits at all. _*That is assuming that the whole studio story isn't a flat out lie*_. She could just be one of the many, many people that underestimate what it takes to get a good photo and went out, _*bought a high dollar camera and now can't get good pics of her kids but is too embarrassed to own up to it*_.



The level of assumption you aspire to is impressive. If you'd have just stuck with your original point, you would've had one of the best posts in this thread. But you had to go muck it up with what I've put in bold above.

"What ifs" are rarely, if ever, valuable or productive, and they should be avoided, especially if you're trying to make a point based on reality...


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## Netskimmer (Apr 16, 2013)

I didn't say it was likely that she didn't know what she was doing, I was just playing my own devils advocate and mentioning both ends of the spectrum of possibilities. People do go out and spend tons of money on gear they don't know how to use and sometimes they do get embarest by that when in the presence of someone who can. This is not an assumption or opinion, this is fact. Your assumption that this is not even in the realm of possibility doesn't really matter.


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## Steve5D (Apr 16, 2013)

Netskimmer said:


> I didn't say it was likely that she didn't know what she was doing, I was just playing my own devils advocate and mentioning both ends of the spectrum of possibilities. People do go out and spend tons of money on gear they don't know how to use and sometimes they do get embarest by that when in the presence of someone who can. This is not an assumption or opinion, this is fact. Your assumption that this is not even in the realm of possibility doesn't really matter.



Personally, I would be "embarest" [sic] if I jumped to conclusions the way many here do. Based on the information provided by the OP, odds are the woman probably knows what she's doing. It's kinda' silly to suggest that she could be lying. What's the basis for something like that?

Also I've never said it wasn't within the realm of possibility. This conversation would be a lot more enjoyable if you approached it honestly instead of attributing things to me I've never said. You should be embarest for doing so...


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## Netskimmer (Apr 16, 2013)

You just jumpted to the conclusion that she knew what she was doing because she said she did and carried an expensive camera. We have no knowledge about this woman so any postulation on my part or yours is just speculation. 

Again, I never said she didn't know what she was doing I just said it was possible. You dissmissed my second comment as 'nonsense' it angered you that I even typed it. If you think it is possible, why would you react so aggressive towards me bringing it up.


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## pixmedic (Apr 16, 2013)

Lets not drag the thread too far off the civil track.


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## Steve5D (Apr 16, 2013)

Netskimmer said:


> You just jumpted to the conclusion that she knew what she was doing because she said she did and carried an expensive camera. We have no knowledge about this woman so any postulation on my part or yours is just speculation.
> 
> Again, I never said she didn't know what she was doing I just said it was possible. You dissmissed my second comment as 'nonsense' it angered you that I even typed it. If you think it is possible, why would you react so aggressive towards me bringing it up.



The OP stated that the woman worked in a photo studio. I don't think it requires any great stretch of the imagination to assume she knows how to use a camera.

Other than that, I'll just say that I would be embarest if I jumpted to anything...


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## vintagesnaps (Apr 16, 2013)

Steve I don't know why it was necessary to post a comment that seems to be for the purpose of making fun of someone's grammar or spelling. So he mispelled a word, why even comment on it?  

This seems to be a lot of speculation because I don't think we know the whole story of why the client brought her own camera. It seems unusual but could have been for a reason that was fairly mundane - we don't seem to have enough information to know. I think that's the type situation in which the photographer would need to take control and ask questions or discuss it with the client so it can be a workable session.


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## manaheim (Apr 16, 2013)

Let's stop the hostile remarks, picking on spelling, etc.

The moderation team is getting a little tired of having to lock threads, and additionally tired of the same individuals being in the midst of them.

Let's return to civil discourse please.


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## Steve5D (Apr 16, 2013)

vintagesnaps said:


> This seems to be a lot of speculation because I don't think we know the whole story of why the client brought her own camera. It seems unusual but could have been for a reason that was fairly mundane - we don't seem to have enough information to know. I think that's the type situation in which the photographer would need to take control and ask questions or discuss it with the client so it can be a workable session.



I agree.

I just happen to think it's silly to dismiss the possibility (or perhaps probability?) that the woman knew how to use a camera. If the OP says she worked in a studio, there's no reason not to take that at face value. Suggesting that she could be lying is silly, primarily because whether or not she's lying (which is really nothing more than wild speculation) is completely irrelevant to the scenario...


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## imagemaker46 (Apr 16, 2013)

Working in a studio doesn't necessarily mean the mother knows how to use the camera.  She could have helped set up lights, moved sets around, done make up, and maybe shot a few things.  The thread is about the OP finding another person with a camera intimidating.  If the Op is going to charge money to shoot she had better get over the "mother's gear is better than mine" thoughts in a hurry.  If all it takes is someone holding a more expensive camera to rattle the Op, there is a confidence issue at hand.


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## Steve5D (Apr 16, 2013)

imagemaker46 said:


> Working in a studio doesn't necessarily mean the mother knows how to use the camera.  She could have helped set up lights, moved sets around, done make up, and maybe shot a few things.



It's also equally likely is that she was the primary photographer and is quite proficient with a camera. There's simply no reason to dismiss that possibility.



> The thread is about the OP finding another person with a camera intimidating.  If the Op is going to charge money to shoot she had better get over the "mother's gear is better than mine" thoughts in a hurry.  If all it takes is someone holding a more expensive camera to rattle the Op, there is a confidence issue at hand.



Agreed...


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## tirediron (Apr 16, 2013)

Closed pending discussion amongst the Moderating Team.


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