# Skateboarding On The Roof | I Hate Orange Safety Nets!!!



## MichaelHenson (Jan 18, 2015)

I got out for the first time and messed with some skateboarding shots. It was incredibly bright out and I was afraid I'd feel conspicuous so I left my flash in the car...shouldn't have. Regardless, I got a couple decent shots...It was a close, crowded rooftop with a safety net to save people from flying skateboards that made the bulk of my shots turn out busy and obnoxious. I did my best with processing to minimize the background, get rid of some shadows, and keep the focus on the skater.

Anyway, let me know what you think. The background kills some of the shots I'm afraid but I'm open to feedback and whatnot.


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## bribrius (Jan 18, 2015)

if i could like this more than once i would. i don't see much here to criticize. it is near impeccable.


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## MichaelHenson (Jan 18, 2015)

Sweet! I was very disappointed with my set as I got home and started working through them...Fortunately, by doing a fair amount of cropping and some dodging/burning and B&W conversions I was able to get some that I'm not displeased with.

Thanks for the positive feedback!


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## jsecordphoto (Jan 18, 2015)

As a skateboarder, and a photographer, I'll offer you some critique. It's important to give some idea of what they are skating on. Also it's better to shoot them from the front if you can. Back up a bit, or use a wider lens to show more of the scene


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## MichaelHenson (Jan 18, 2015)

jsecordphoto said:


> As a skateboarder, and a photographer, I'll offer you some critique. It's important to give some idea of what they are skating on. Also it's better to shoot them from the front if you can. Back up a bit, or use a wider lens to show more of the scene



Yeah, I understand this. I had a 17-50 that was plenty wide. Unfortunately, my sight lines were fairly limited and the background was prohibitively distracting so I felt the need to crop in close to keep the focus on the skater...Not the best venue for a legit skate shoot unfortunately...

Thanks for the feedback! I'm definitely going to keep this in mind when I have a bit more control over the circumstances.


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## jsecordphoto (Jan 18, 2015)

yeah, I understand these events can limit your options for shooting. If skate photography is something you'd want to do more of, I'd google Atiba Jefferson's skate photos, he's one of the best in the biz and would give you an idea of how to approach it.


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## MichaelHenson (Jan 18, 2015)

Cool. I'll check him out! It is something I'd like to do more of...thanks for the tips, critique and info!


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## runnah (Jan 18, 2015)

jsecordphoto said:


> As a skateboarder, and a photographer, I'll offer you some critique. It's important to give some idea of what they are skating on. Also it's better to shoot them from the front if you can. Back up a bit, or use a wider lens to show more of the scene




Exactly. The setting is often more important than the trick. A kick flip off a curb is boring but one over a huge gap is impressive.


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## MichaelHenson (Jan 19, 2015)

runnah said:


> jsecordphoto said:
> 
> 
> > As a skateboarder, and a photographer, I'll offer you some critique. It's important to give some idea of what they are skating on. Also it's better to shoot them from the front if you can. Back up a bit, or use a wider lens to show more of the scene
> ...



Yeah, I get it. I have the original files at home and may be able to include more of the take off/landing points but I'm afraid it's likely to result in weird crops...like super thin portrait shots in order to keep the background madness to a minimum.


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## runnah (Jan 19, 2015)

MichaelHenson said:


> runnah said:
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> > jsecordphoto said:
> ...



It's hard for folks who never done it to understand. I rode BMX for many years so I have the insight.


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## MichaelHenson (Jan 19, 2015)

So, would a tall, skinny portrait that shows more of the take off/landing be preferable to the style of cropping I have here?


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## runnah (Jan 19, 2015)

MichaelHenson said:


> So, would a tall, skinny portrait that shows more of the take off/landing be preferable to the style of cropping I have here?



yes.


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## MichaelHenson (Jan 19, 2015)

runnah said:


> MichaelHenson said:
> 
> 
> > So, would a tall, skinny portrait that shows more of the take off/landing be preferable to the style of cropping I have here?
> ...



So, is it safe to say that, with action photography of this sort (BMX, skateboarding, etc.), that the trick is the primary subject while the person performing the trick is a secondary subject?


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## runnah (Jan 19, 2015)

MichaelHenson said:


> runnah said:
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> > MichaelHenson said:
> ...



The setting is important. For example, same trick different setting.

Boring
http://lucashaff.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/mason-skateboard.jpg

Exciting
http://www.thesurfchannel.com/newwa.../2013/10/ryan_sheckler_Skate_Streetstyle_.jpg

The setting adds to the degree of difficulty.


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## jsecordphoto (Jan 19, 2015)

No, the person is the primary subject. Obviously it's important to show what trick they are doing, but it's also important to show the whole scene to give a frame of reference as to what's going on. Like I said,  look through some professional skate photographers work on google


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## runnah (Jan 19, 2015)

jsecordphoto said:


> No, the person is the primary subject. Obviously it's important to show what trick they are doing, but it's also important to show the whole scene to give a frame of reference as to what's going on. Like I said,  look through some professional skate photographers work on google



I disagree. Often faces are obscured and not clear. The trick and the setting is primary while the person is secondary.


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## MichaelHenson (Jan 19, 2015)

So something like this is better? Sorry for any quality degradation... Screenshot from my phones Flickr app.


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## runnah (Jan 19, 2015)

MichaelHenson said:


> So something like this is better? Sorry for any quality degradation... Screenshot from my phones Flickr app.



yes better. Give a sense of scale and difficulty for the trick.


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## MichaelHenson (Jan 19, 2015)

Cool. I'll rework some of those I posted earlier when I get home this evening and see if I can include more. On most of them, all that is there to add is more of the mini ramp they were on...not a whole lot of jumps going on really. Mainly just the occasional kickflip off the lip of the ramp.


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## MichaelHenson (Jan 19, 2015)

Quick bump for the afternoon gang!


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## imagemaker46 (Jan 20, 2015)

I understand the concept of tying the skater in with the surroundings, but having an image where there is absolutely no subject/background separation just turns the whole image flat.  It is obvious that there were tight restrictions as far having the safety fences in place, could it have been shot with a longer lens from further back that would have allowed for a cleaner background, or separation?  Pretty much every skater shot is done with a wide angle and shot at  what looks like f11, I realize that it's easier shooting wide, less chance of not ending up with an image.


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## MichaelHenson (Jan 20, 2015)

imagemaker46 said:


> I understand the concept of tying the skater in with the surroundings, but having an image where there is absolutely no subject/background separation just turns the whole image flat.



I completely agree. This is something that I definitely need/want to work on. So many of the shots of skateboarders, etc. I see have a large depth of field. I want to be able to separate them from the background while still keeping a "tie-in" in the image.



imagemaker46 said:


> It is obvious that there were tight restrictions as far having the safety fences in place, could it have been shot with a longer lens from further back that would have allowed for a cleaner background, or separation?



I probably could have tried it. Unfortunately, there wasn't a lot of space and if I would have gone with a zoom lens, I would have been too close when they were coming towards me...I think. I was trying to keep my gear minimal...Oh well.



imagemaker46 said:


> Pretty much every skater shot is done with a wide angle and shot at  what looks like f11, I realize that it's easier shooting wide, less chance of not ending up with an image.



I had my aperture wide (2.8) open pretty much the entire time...It's just that when the skaters were facing my direction they were 20-30 feet away or so...


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## MichaelHenson (Jan 20, 2015)

Regarding background separation, shots like this make me wonder about the importance of it with this genre?

Atiba Jefferson

Personally, I'd prefer some separation to keep the focus on the skater and the trick...but this guy gets paid to do this and I don't and that's how he chose to do it?


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## jsecordphoto (Jan 20, 2015)

That may be one of the cases in which Atiba is basically the master in his field,  he's allowed to break some of the rules.


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## imagemaker46 (Jan 20, 2015)

MichaelHenson said:


> imagemaker46 said:
> 
> 
> > I understand the concept of tying the skater in with the surroundings, but having an image where there is absolutely no subject/background separation just turns the whole image flat.
> ...



Really at 2.8?  Everything in the entire frame is sharp, the disadvantage of shooting with a wide.  There are lots of times when shooting wide and bringing in the whole crowd works well, although for me personally I'm not a fan of loose shooting.


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## runnah (Jan 20, 2015)

imagemaker46 said:


> Pretty much every skater shot is done with a wide angle and shot at  what looks like f11, I realize that it's easier shooting wide, less chance of not ending up with an image.



This is done because more often than not a skater will either not get a lot of chances to try a trick before getting kicked out of a spot or they will only nail a trick once out of 30 tries. Therefore the photographer will try to eliminate any room for error.

Personally I hate the ultra wide angle shots of skaters.


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## MichaelHenson (Jan 20, 2015)

imagemaker46 said:


> Really at 2.8?  Everything in the entire frame is sharp, the disadvantage of shooting with a wide.  There are lots of times when shooting wide and bringing in the whole crowd works well, although for me personally I'm not a fan of loose shooting.



Yes, sir. Unless my lens is doing something funky and sending LIES to my camera? But I kind of doubt it because this shot was without me changing the aperture and turned out plenty blurred in the background.





I'm not a fan of loose shooting either and typically take things to the other extreme. I'm always being told to stop cropping too closely, etc.



runnah said:


> imagemaker46 said:
> 
> 
> > Pretty much every skater shot is done with a wide angle and shot at  what looks like f11, I realize that it's easier shooting wide, less chance of not ending up with an image.
> ...



Agreed. I'd love to be able to get some shots with a nicely separated background and focus on the skater/biker while still showing the trick. Gonna have to get plenty of practice in to be able to put that all together though.


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## Overread (Jan 20, 2015)

I've found that event shooting like this is very tricky at times to get what you want and what you "know" will make a good shot. Sometimes, esp in live events not setup for photography, you can find that backgrounds are full of distracting elements - the angles are poor - the positions limited and your range of options curtailed. 

Bigger professional events can be better, they can work a little within the though of good video/photography and provide some form of suitable access for the official workers on site at least. Smaller time or events just without a mind to the photographer can be very unforgiving. 

Moving back and using more telephoto is an option; but only if you can. For something like this where there isn't a viewing platform and where you can't step back too far because spectators will end up standing in-front limits you. 

Sometimes the problem is the venue just isn't any good - at which point you've got to adapt and change. You've got to go with flow and accept that there will be greater imperfections than you'd like; but work with them. Maximise what you can get and when you come to review you'll feel better because yes the shot might not be the shot you "want" to take in an ideal world; but you'll be able to say to yourself "This shot DID work under the constraints I was experiencing at the time".

You'd be surprised, but many shots of sports are oft taken during practice or special setups when the shots are taken away from documentation of a game/event. Sometimes a photographer works very close with the subject to get the shot - its not a lie its just ensuring that the event unfolds in a way and means that allows for a greater maximum potential for the shot the photographer "wants" 


Ps I think the whole wide angle small aperture is minimising error chances and maximising getting the event - esp if they can't move back to use a telephoto to follow the action. Because hten you're ensuring that your subject is going to be in the frame - and will be in focus and will be sharp.


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## KmH (Jan 20, 2015)

MichaelHenson said:


> Regarding background separation, shots like this make me wonder about the importance of it with this genre?
> 
> Atiba Jefferson
> 
> Personally, I'd prefer some separation to keep the focus on the skater and the trick...but this guy gets paid to do this and I don't and that's how he chose to do it?


Look at the side-by-side skate shots. The skate action shot has deep DoF. The accompanying portrait, non-action shot has much more shallow DoF.
The deep DoF action shots provide an 'environment' function that puts the skater at a location. Skating to a large degree is about skating in locations that are kind of ad hoc.


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