# How old is this camera?



## Grandpa Ron (Sep 16, 2018)

Decades ago (early 1970's) my Uncle gave me this 4x5 camera from who knows where. Yes, I actually took a few pictures with it using a Wollensak lens from an old Polaroid camera. I came across it recently an decided to awaken it.

As you can see from the empty screw holes, some of the features must have been  cannibalized. Repurposed as they say for other projects. Avid collectors seem to have a knack for identifying their favorite items, So my question is "What is your best guess at the age and maker of this venerable old camera."

It will see film this winter; here is something about snowshoes, a dog, tripod and cut film that cannot be digitized, no matter how short the outing.


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## Jeff15 (Sep 16, 2018)

Wow, that's older than me..................


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## vintagesnaps (Sep 16, 2018)

Closing in on 100 years maybe? Looks like it was made into a pinhole camera.

How big is this one? I have something somewhat similar that's a small size with a rollfilm back and a small sheet film back (smaller than 4x5, would have to go measure it again, but the film is sold during Ilford's ULF sale every year and is the smallest size made).

With no nameplate on the front, I don't know... I have another camera that's a different style that just has KW on the front for Kamerawerk; or some cameras have F&H for Franke Heidecke or have ASA/DIN that at least give you a clue. I don't know if there were a lot of specific camera model names the earlier you get in photography.

Have fun using it!


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## Derrel (Sep 16, 2018)

I am not a camera collector...but I am going to guess circa 1905...but I could easily be wrong. As to manufacturer? I have no idea.


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## IanG (Sep 17, 2018)

While I recognise the camera I'm not so good on US cameras but I'd start by checking out Seneca, I'd suggest looking through the catalogues here. 

I'm not sure when the first rotating backs were fitted to US cameras but t was later than in the UK. My guess is 1905-1914 for it's age.

Ian


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## IanG (Sep 17, 2018)

My initial guess was a Seneca Camera Number 7, the revolving back was introduced in 1911.

However despite the similarities it's more likely to be a Century Model 43, 46 or Grand, their revolving backs were introduced 1908.  You can check the full details in the Century catalogues for 1908 onwards as it's not possible to be precise with just those photos.  Look at how the bed extends and drops etc.

Ian


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## Grandpa Ron (Sep 18, 2018)

IanG

Thanks for the catalog post.

I measure the camera size and based on the attached catalog page I believe I have a Seneca Six.

The features include,

The dimension are correct for the 4x5 format.
The front rise and fall adjustment.
The rack and pinion focus.
The removable lens board. 
The Reversible back. I take too mean rotatable.
Screw holes where what looks like a focusing device was attached to the front corner of the lid.  
In addition it has a narrow lens mount frame width and a gap over the hinge separating the adjustable bellows rail from the storage bellow rails.

If not a Seneca six, then a commercial knock off.

Thanks again

Ron


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## IanG (Sep 19, 2018)

No the reversible back in that advert doesn't revolve but in 1911 Seneca lis the camera as being sold with a revoving back.

I don't think it's a Seneca though, that plated round bit of metal near the back just over half way up is found on the Century equivalent.  There's often a lot of similarities between cameras from Rochester manufacturers, often some parts are source from the same suppliers, It's noticeable with plated fittings etc, same thing happened in the UK.

Ian


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## Grandpa Ron (Sep 19, 2018)

Ian,
Good catch in the round metal back release pin. The pin may have had a small cap in it. If you push the pin towards the front the back releases and can be rotated, push the in towards the back and the back is locked in place.

This locking pin is featured on the Century models and not the Seneca models. However, the Century models feature a thumb locking screw to secure the bellow to the bellow rail. The Seneca uses spring loaded pinch knobs to secure the bellow to the rail. This camera has both the Century circular back release pin feature and the pinch bellows release of the Seneca models.

This adventure is like pealing an onion, one layer leads to the next. As I review some of the other catalogs, your comment about common parts suppliers is spot on.

Regardless, of the maker, I think it is safe to say this Camera dates to the first decade of the 1900s. 

So, the quest continues, and I certainly want to thank for the information. You have been a great help.


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## IanG (Sep 19, 2018)

No problem, I'm used to identifying mystery cameras, I ha have a lot I've all identified.  Just remember the catalogues don't use photographs they are engravings and errors definitely creep in.

Surprisingly (as I'm in the UK) I have quite a few US field cameras and Graflexes,most I've bought direct from the US or of the owners who imported them. So 3 Seneca's7x5's  is why I'm familiar, a couple of Agfa Ansco 10x8 cameras, numerous Graflex, and I use them 

Ian


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## Christie Photo (Sep 19, 2018)

I find the ad to be interesting.  If I'm reading it right, is sounds like it was sold with a lens with f11 as a maximum aperture.  No mention of the focal length. I'd guess somewhere around 5½ inches.


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## IanG (Sep 20, 2018)

Christie Photo said:


> I find the ad to be interesting.  If I'm reading it right, is sounds like it was sold with a lens with f11 as a maximum aperture.  No mention of the focal length. I'd guess somewhere around 5½ inches.



A 6" or more likely longer lens maybe 6½" and even 6⅞" were common,

A  5½" lens would be for a Quarter plate camera I have a few TTH Cooke 5¾ lenses all on Quarter plate cameras.  

Ian


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