# I'm BACK!



## bace (May 7, 2014)

Miss me?

Anyone still posting that even remembers my pompous ass?

If not, disregard and nice to meet you all. I'm not so pompous in my old age. And I'm a real photographer now!


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## jl1975 (May 7, 2014)

I don't think I was around when you were here before, but welcome back.  Of course, with an intro like that I'll be expecting some interesting posts/responses from you


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## bace (May 8, 2014)

jl1975 said:


> I don't think I was around when you were here before, but welcome back.  Of course, with an intro like that I'll be expecting some interesting posts/responses from you



You should check some of my old threads. My first intro thread was legendary!

What happened to this place?

Used to be so lively??


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## sm4him (May 8, 2014)

Still lively, you just gotta get in with the "cool crowd." :lmao:

Welcome (back) to Hotel TPF. Now let's see some pictures, since you're a "real" photographer now! 
(MY definition of a REAL photographer is a person who has an actual camera and takes pictures with it. My definition of a GOOD photographer is somewhat different.  )


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## runnah (May 8, 2014)

Hello.


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## bace (May 8, 2014)

You can always check out my website. I'm not much of a photo poster. I'm not here to look for critique as I find most critics aren't really qualified opinions.

Also, by 'real photographer' I mean a full time photographer with my income completely from my photography business.

Having a camera doesn't exactly qualify you as a photographer any more than having an oven qualifies you as a chef.


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## bace (May 8, 2014)

runnah said:


> Hello.



Heeeey!


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## runnah (May 8, 2014)

bace said:


> I'm not here to look for critique as I find most critics aren't really qualified opinions.






bace said:


> Having a camera doesn't exactly qualify you as a photographer any more than having an oven qualifies you as a chef.



I like you.


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## Warhorse (May 8, 2014)

I did not miss you. I was not here when you were... you old geezer!


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## robbins.photo (May 8, 2014)

bace said:


> Anyone still posting that even remembers my pompous ass?



Nope.. so we'll probably need pictures of it. Lol


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## sm4him (May 8, 2014)

bace said:


> You can always check out my website. I'm not much of a photo poster. I'm not here to look for critique as I find most critics aren't really qualified opinions.
> 
> Also, by 'real photographer' I mean a full time photographer with my income completely from my photography business.
> 
> *Having a camera doesn't exactly qualify you as a photographer any more than having an oven qualifies you as a chef.*



No, but having--and using, to prepare food--an oven DOES make you a cook.  Maybe a terrible one, but a cook nonetheless. 

"Chef" denotes a much higher skill level, and at least HINTS at making a living that way, just as--FOR ME--"Professional" photographer does.  THAT is a whole big can of worms, I know, because, particularly these days, there are a lot of "Professional" photographers out there who wouldn't have a clue how to operate their camera if it wasn't in Auto, but until we coin a term that denotes a highly-skilled photographer from a beginner, they are ALL photographers to me. 

Well, isn't THIS fun? *I'm* not usually one to debate all this, but here I am, doing so in an "welcome" thread!  So, I'll drop the semantics debate and just say again, "Welcome."


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## robbins.photo (May 8, 2014)

sm4him said:


> THAT is a whole big can of worms, I know, because, particularly these days, there are a lot of "Professional" photographers out there who wouldn't have a clue how to operate their camera if it wasn't in Auto, but until we coin a term that denotes a highly-skilled photographer from a beginner, they are ALL photographers to me.



Woohoo!  We were pretty much out of worms too, thank goodness that can showed up just in the nick of time.  Well, what are we waiting for, lets pop that baby open!  Lol


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## mishele (May 8, 2014)

Welcome back?! 
Joined in 2005?! You must be an amazing talent by now! I can't wait to see your work!


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## astroNikon (May 8, 2014)

wow .. gone for 4 years

Hi


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## BrickHouse (May 8, 2014)

bace said:


> I'm not so pompous in my old age.
> 
> I'm not here to look for critique as I find most critics aren't really qualified opinions.




Eh...debatable.


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## sscarmack (May 8, 2014)

I don't drive Nascar, does that mean I'm not a real driver?


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## robbins.photo (May 8, 2014)

sscarmack said:


> I don't drive Nascar, does that mean I'm not a real driver?



That's exactly what it means.  I'll give you an address you can ship the car too.  Thanks.


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## limr (May 8, 2014)

sscarmack said:


> I don't drive Nascar, does that mean I'm not a real driver?



Nascar drivers aren't real drivers, either.


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## manicmike (May 8, 2014)

sscarmack said:


> I don't drive Nascar, does that mean I'm not a real driver?



Can you turn left?


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## mmaria (May 8, 2014)

> [h=2]I'm BACK![/h]



I'm scared!


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## terri (May 9, 2014)

bace said:


> Miss me?
> 
> Anyone still posting that even remembers my pompous ass?
> 
> If not, disregard and nice to meet you all. I'm not so pompous in my old age. And I'm a real photographer now!



What the...   

Welcome back, you damn troublemaker, you.    :hug::    Wanna rave?!?


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## bace (May 10, 2014)

terri said:


> bace said:
> 
> 
> > Miss me?
> ...



Don't rave anymore. Found the one. Started a real photo business. And now I'm back. Maybe.

Haven't decided if I can stand forum antics anymore. To many anonymous opinions.

Glad to see you're still here though!


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## KmH (May 10, 2014)

sscarmack said:


> I don't drive Nascar, does that mean I'm not a real driver?


Driving a street car and driving a race car are not even close to being the same thing.


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## runnah (May 10, 2014)

KmH said:


> Driving a street car and driving a race car are not even close to being the same thing.



Yeah it is. Turn the wheel to steer, hit the skinny pedal to go. The difference is the rate and accuracy. 

See that crazy Indy car crash? I swear Indy car is just a disaster waiting to happen at every corner.


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## e.rose (May 10, 2014)

I don't remember you... but I like you. You sound fun.


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## mishele (May 10, 2014)

^^^ She crazy!! Her opinion doesn't matter!!


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## manaheim (May 10, 2014)

Well... I don't remember you from before, but boy I sure will remember you now.


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## e.rose (May 10, 2014)

mishele said:


> ^^^ She crazy!! Her opinion doesn't matter!!



So does my opinion that his work is stellar and he'll probably get sick of this place quick as a result, not matter?  :lmao:


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## e.rose (May 10, 2014)

(I'm not, however, denying that I'm crazy Mish. That part is true. :crazy: :lmao: )


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## terri (May 12, 2014)

bace said:


> terri said:
> 
> 
> > bace said:
> ...



I'm not unlike the dirt along the baseboards...hard to get rid of.    :mrgreen:  

I was kidding about the rave stuff.   I'm seriously thrilled to hear you've got someone special, and the photo business is going well.  As I recall, you were shooting fairly regularly for money the last time you blew through here, and your work was already very good back then.   So congrats on the success.   

Don't sweat the forum antics.   On the whole this place does all right.


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## Big Mike (May 12, 2014)

Base is back?

That's it...I'm outta here.    ;-)


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## terri (May 12, 2014)

I thought someone had banned him long ago!


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## bace (May 13, 2014)

terri said:


> bace said:
> 
> 
> > terri said:
> ...



Getting paid to shoot, and getting paid enough to pay bills are very different. Thanks to some great marketing and giveaways, and some growing up, the latter is now reality.

The real reason is that I'm basically unemployable at any other job. I can really only work for myself lol. At least then it's my fault when I'm working with idiots. LOL.

As for the forum, I was hoping I could give back or something. But I look at the critique threads and I can't stand the people critiquing.

Is there anyway to allow certain members to critique? Or maybe I should just start blocking members all together. That way I'll never see their posts...hmmmm


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## terri (May 13, 2014)

In certain ways, the forum remains the same - a lot of entry-level folks who aren't certain of what they are doing, or what they are trying to achieve, still post their work in the Galleries.   There are varying degrees of how they accept or interpret the C&C that is offered to them.   

And as you already know, some people aren't certain how to offer critique and it can get dicey.   If you've prowled around a little, you might already have a few names to add to your Ignore list.   (Still the best tool around to help keep the forum peace, though I don't think it's used nearly enough.)


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## bace (May 13, 2014)

Maybe I'll just cause a ruckus like last time....

Had a lot more time on my hands 4 years ago thats for sure.


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## pixmedic (May 13, 2014)

bace said:


> terri said:
> 
> 
> > bace said:
> ...



its a balance here, ya know....
sometimes you just have to find some middle ground between the people that think their opinion is the gospel, and the people that think their work too good for critique. 
It also helps when you find the people capable of discerning the difference between "critique" and "criticism"


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## bace (May 13, 2014)

One of the big problems I had here was that most people felt that their personal preference was what everyone else should consider at all times.

Instead of appreciating someones personal style all they point out is how _they_ would have shot it.

That's not critique, that's just telling us how you would have done things instead of finding out what someone was going for and understanding their goals from the shot.

I think a major flaw in the forum is that so far the format is "here's what I shot" as opposed to "here's what I was going for, and this is what I got".

But then what do I know. I only know that after leaving here and actually finding my own way, I'm now back....


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## pixmedic (May 13, 2014)

bace said:


> One of the big problems I had here was that most people felt that their personal preference was what everyone else should consider at all times.
> 
> Instead of appreciating someones personal style all they point out is how _they_ would have shot it.
> 
> ...



well, that is all just a personal opinion as well.  
everyone looks at a photo and wonders "gee, what would I have done"?
I don't think there's anything wrong with looking at a posted photo and telling the photographer what you would have done. 
appreciating someones style and giving ideas on how _*you*_ would have handled it are not mutually exclusive.  Its a great way to grow as a photographer. 
Thats the "format" of a forum. To post photos, exchange ideas, and use what you like. whats the point of posting your work if all you want is "good job" and "nice shot"?
you could get that from FaceBook.


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## bace (May 13, 2014)

You just repeated exactly what I just said. Except you think it's great and I don't.

Thank you. For spending that time to repeat me.

My point is that if the format were changed slightly and people could post something they were going for as well, then people could tell them how to get there. Instead of telling them how THEY would get there. A point that in most cases is useless to someone looking to develop a certain style.


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## terri (May 13, 2014)

bace said:


> You just repeated exactly what I just said. Except you think it's great and I don't.
> 
> Thank you. For spending that time to repeat me.
> 
> My point is that if the format were changed slightly and people could post something they were going for as well, then people could tell them how to get there. Instead of telling them how THEY would get there. A point that in most cases is useless to someone looking to develop a certain style.



Well, I didn't read where Pix said he thought it was _great_, per se - just that for many people, especially those new to photography, it can help them think through a shot and how to get better.   

I personally don't look at that many shots and ponder how *I* would have done it.   Regardless - it's not so much a "posting format" here, just how you want your own work to be viewed.   If you posted your own work and wanted to offer up what you were going for, that would be welcomed, really.    TPF no longer has the "critique" forums it did in days past - you might be recalling some of that.   We tried to split a lot of hairs and failed miserably.


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## bace (May 13, 2014)

I'm trying to fit in. I already find myself ruffling feathers. My opinion is just too loud. And I'm obviously right. All the time. Mostly.


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## pixmedic (May 13, 2014)

bace said:


> You just repeated exactly what I just said. Except you think it's great and I don't.
> 
> Thank you. For spending that time to repeat me.
> 
> My point is that if the format were changed slightly and people could post something they were going for as well, then people could tell them how to get there. Instead of telling them how THEY would get there. A point that in most cases is useless to someone looking to develop a certain style.



where exactly does it say in the TPF rules that the "format" is what you say it is? as far as I am aware, there are no rules governing how you address any given photo. 
also, for the record, I never said it was great...i just said that's the way it is. 
I think, that the easiest way to get what you are looking for, is to simply state what  you want in the post. Post a picture, and describe exactly what sort of feedback (if any) you want. 

I think a major flaw with people posting photos, is that they post with little to no information about it (what the intent was, what they were going for, etc etc) and then get bent out of shape when they don't get the exact reaction they were looking for. 

my point is...the more you put _*into*_ what you want in a post, the more people are likely to give it to you. otherwise, we are just guessing. 
maybe im missing something here, go easy on me Im a Paramedic, not a photographer, but what is the point of posting a picture to a photography forum if not to get other peoples opinions on it? 

You might have to explain "critique" to me as well, because i have been under the assumption that it was giving your personal opinion on a photo, as apposed to just appreciating it and saying "nice shot". Now, if you want to talk about drug dosages and ventilator settings....I could go on for hours about tidal volumes, drip sets, and titrating effects...


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## terri (May 13, 2014)

I'm just used to you, and I can assure you you're not the only one with a loud opinion here.    Besides, I'm pretty sure you're sussing up the old Crit forums and all that associated crap about how best to present your work...it was a nightmare.   Didn't we have "Technical Critique" as well as "General", or something?    We were trying to make it to where a poster could simply ask someone to edit their stuff and explain how they did it, as opposed to actually viewing the more aesthetic features of the photo.   

Some people loved it, others hated it.   Some people like to post an image without saying a word, others like to state what they intended and include tech details, etc...it's never one size fits all.   

Which is why I was saying, if you want to add a preamble about your work in any of the Galleries, you should.    People need to feel comfortable when they post their work about what they are expecting others to comment on...or, not.   :razz:


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## pixmedic (May 13, 2014)

BTW,  i did take a peek at your site. wonderful work. I suspect there is little to nothing I could possibly add as far as critique goes _*except*_ my personal feelings on it, and of course, "great shot".


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## terri (May 13, 2014)

Oh, we posted too close together, Jason.   You never saw the old Critique forums, which I think is what Paul is recalling, and there really _was_ a specific format for the damn things.   It's all just kind of flung into the "Gallery" section these days.    

Easier in some ways (post by category) but as far as expectations, it's not made clear compared to what TPF used to have.


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## pixmedic (May 13, 2014)

terri said:


> Oh, we posted too close together, Jason.   You never saw the old Critique forums, which I think is what Paul is recalling, and there really _was_ a specific format for the damn things.   It's all just kind of flung into the "Gallery" section these days.
> 
> Easier in some ways (post by category) but as far as expectations, it's not made clear compared to what TPF used to have.



really? sounds dreadful.


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## terri (May 13, 2014)

pixmedic said:


> terri said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, we posted too close together, Jason.   You never saw the old Critique forums, which I think is what Paul is recalling, and there really _was_ a specific format for the damn things.   It's all just kind of flung into the "Gallery" section these days.
> ...



Dreadful it was, yes.   :sillysmi:


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## bace (May 13, 2014)

I guess I've seen a bit of the same here and thought nothing had changed. I've looked about a bit. Posting photos here seems a bit redundant (for me), but I've posted one. More so to weed out a few people who post for the sake of posting and block them.

Is that wrong?

p.s. Jason, I could probably talk about drugs for days . LOL.


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## pondball (May 13, 2014)

bace said:


> I think a major flaw in the forum is that so far the format is "here's what I shot" as opposed to "here's what I was going for, and this is what I got".  But.....


Welcome back... And I don't know you from a hole in the ground... But I think you're spot on with your remark... I'm pretty new here, and have been out of photography since the days of HP5... But have been enjoying learning how to use a dslr in the past few months... Decades ago I might not have been a photographer but I was considered to have a pretty good eye... And usually knew what it was I was trying to do... Sometimes without success (ok... More than sometimes) but at least I had a bit of a plan of what it was I was trying to do on a shoot... Many times it changed but I still had a plan... 

I think it would be great if new posters, and old posters alike gave is a wee precis of what it was they were trying to do with their images as opposed to just "here's what I shot, what do you think" cuz this opens it up for whatever interpretation it gets, and often leads to personal feelings getting in the way of constructive criticism... With a plan stated it would be much easier to critique and IMO a better learning experience.

Good to have you back, whoever you are&#128521;


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## pixmedic (May 13, 2014)

bace said:


> I guess I've seen a bit of the same here and thought nothing had changed. I've looked about a bit. Posting photos here seems a bit redundant (for me), but I've posted one. More so to weed out a few people who post for the sake of posting and block them.
> 
> Is that wrong?
> 
> p.s. Jason, I could probably talk about drugs for days . LOL.



OMG..if only more people would use the Ignore feature! :lmao:
how much easier life would be here...

I don't do a _*lot*_ of photography, (i second shoot occasionally, and do some portraits) but when i do post here, its so i can get advice on what i can do to improve. 
its worth it for _*me*_ because there are plenty of people far above my skill level that can help me improve. its a sliding curve though, and you reach a point where you are just posting to show your latest work, and not so much for actual feedback. not that its bad of course, we all enjoy seeing good work.


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## limr (May 13, 2014)

pixmedic said:


> bace said:
> 
> 
> > I guess I've seen a bit of the same here and thought nothing had changed. I've looked about a bit. Posting photos here seems a bit redundant (for me), but I've posted one. More so to weed out a few people who post for the sake of posting and block them.
> ...



I have learned to truly love the Ignore feature. I haven't used it very often, but oh, it's lovely!


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## runnah (May 14, 2014)

limr said:


> I have learned to truly love the Ignore feature. I haven't used it very often, but oh, it's lovely!



Yes but you miss out on so much fun!

Ps can you see this or am I on L's list?


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## limr (May 14, 2014)

runnah said:


> limr said:
> 
> 
> > I have learned to truly love the Ignore feature. I haven't used it very often, but oh, it's lovely!
> ...



Nah, I still get to watch the fun, but this way, I'm not infected by the worst-smelling crap. Every once in a while, I'm curious enough to give into temptation and view the hidden post, and it was never worth it.

Just don't ever become a massive blowhard and you'll stay off my list. :lmao:


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## Big Mike (May 14, 2014)

> I think a major flaw in the forum is that so far the format is "here's what I shot" as opposed to "here's what I was going for, and this is what I got".



This is, and always has been, the problem with critique around here.  You can set all sorts of guidelines but when the people posting for critique don't put enough effort into their request for critique, the whole system falls apart.  And the more strictly you try to enforce the guidelines, to keep the system from falling apart, the more the posters resent the heavy moderation.

Believe me, Terri and I have seen it all.  We tried and tried to have a functioning critique section, it just doesn't work here.  Possibly it's because we have such a high percentage of new members (who are often new photographers).  On one hand, it's unfortunate that we can't, as a group, make it work....but on the other hand, the constant inflow of new members means that we must be doing something right.


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## bace (May 14, 2014)

I believe I have hit a wall. You can't ignore moderators. Sorry TPF, but if you have incredibly bad photographers giving critique as "moderators" (a term that gives some validity to their work in a place like this), and I can't ignore their completely baseless opinions, I can't stick around.

I'm sure I'll get banned now anyway seeing as I just told said person where to go.

For the record, I think your moderators should all be qualified to be giving opinions on others work, or not give it at all.


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## BrickHouse (May 14, 2014)

I've met a lot of surgeons with 'God complexes' but this is my first time meeting a photographer with one. Very interesting.


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## Braineack (May 14, 2014)

bace said:


> I'm sure I'll get banned now anyway seeing as I just told said person where to go.



Why did you "come back" if this was your intended goal in the first place?


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## rexbobcat (May 14, 2014)

Am I the only one who finds the irony in he fact that he complains about people posting photos "just to see what others think," and in the first photo thread he's posted in four years he "just wants to see what people think."

Classic.


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## astroNikon (May 14, 2014)

runnah said:


> limr said:
> 
> 
> > I have learned to truly love the Ignore feature. I haven't used it very often, but oh, it's lovely!
> ...



If it makes you feel any better you are on my I list, so I never see any of your posts .... oh wait .. :scratch:


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## manaheim (May 14, 2014)

bace said:


> I believe I have hit a wall. You can't ignore moderators. Sorry TPF, but if you have incredibly bad photographers giving critique as "moderators" (a term that gives some validity to their work in a place like this), and I can't ignore their completely baseless opinions, I can't stick around.
> 
> I'm sure I'll get banned now anyway seeing as I just told said person where to go.
> 
> For the record, I think your moderators should all be qualified to be giving opinions on others work, or not give it at all.



Very nice.  So glad to have you back.

Thread closed.


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