# 2003 Tomahawk MotorCycle



## JRE313




----------



## 412 Burgh

too much processing in my opinion.


----------



## prodigy2k7

412 Burgh said:


> too much processing in my opinion.


^This


----------



## Hackett

I agree, feels like there is a sheet of plastic wrap on it.


----------



## Derrel

I would like to know more about the motorcycle!! The heavy processing does give it a "look". That wall power outlet by the tires needs to be cloned out.


----------



## 2WheelPhoto

+1 I'd take that crip zone sign away from the baffroom door too =)


----------



## SCraig

Derrel said:


> I would like to know more about the motorcycle!! The heavy processing does give it a "look". That wall power outlet by the tires needs to be cloned out.


As I recall it was a concept motorcycle by Chrysler Corporation.  Again, if memory serves, it had a V-10 Viper engine in it.  A rather unusual machine to say the least 

I also agree that the HDR treatment is far too heavy.


----------



## Trever1t

it has a Viper engine but more impressive is it's 2 independant front wheels. Think about how a bike turns, this beast is a technological masterpiece. I believe 10 were built. I like the shot.


----------



## 2WheelPhoto

The 2 front wheel suspension has been around for a while with a few euro brands. A few pics down shows it in action

Piaggio 3 Wheel MP3 Scooter


----------



## Trever1t

ahh but this one operates very differently from those. I can't spout off all the specs but I read a long article on this bike years ago when it was unveiled. The front end posed huge obsticles to Chrystler, which they overcame with pretty radical engineering.


----------



## vipgraphx

There are a few things going on here. One the surrounding area is just not flattering. So you have to think outside the box a little to make this image pop. The second thing is that the smoothing or noise reduction  you are using is taking out far to much detail. This bike would benefit from less smoothing I think. Maybe keep it in the chrome but not the metal. It looked like you already tried to clone something out on the wall but did not do the  best job on making it invisible so I would say pay more attention to those details.

I tried to recover the photo but still may not me to peoples liking. I adjusted the tine with a cross process filter. I removed the out let and the handi cap sign. I also fixed that area on the wall above the front tires. I then added to textures one using a soft light and the next using overlay. They were two different filters. I added a slight vignette that I erased in curtain areas so it was not so harsh. I also added a film texture to add some gain in the photo.

Like I said this may not be for everybody but sometimes you have to process more to recover a photo.


----------



## Bynx

Im not fussy about the second rendition, but your first one is top notch. I dont know what there is about it that those other guys dont like. Id like to see a really good composition with that bike but there is nothing wrong with the processing. It seems people just drop in here not knowing a thing about what they are looking at and make an uninformed remark about how much they dont like the processing. They should just stay in the flower or pet forums.


----------



## vipgraphx

Bynx said:


> They should just stay in the flower or pet forums.



:lmao::lmao:


----------



## JRE313

vipgraphx said:


> Bynx said:
> 
> 
> 
> They should just stay in the flower or pet forums.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :lmao::lmao:
Click to expand...


VIP
Once again People are are saying too much processing. 
I understand what Bynx is saying but He is also one of the most experienced HDR guys here.
I see your points but I wanted to ask you is there too much processing on the bike itself?

Here is a photo of the bike coming straight out of a camera. Maybe this will help your opinion.


----------



## fenderjaguar

No matter what you do when it comes to HDR people will say it's over processed. I personally don't mind the processing my only complaint is of the bike itself. I just think it's ugly lol but it looks like it was built for speed and performance and not for looks. I would take the wall socket out of the picture but other than that it basically is what it is. When it comes to HDR just make yourself happy because there are people that are open to heavier HDR treatments and then there's everyone else that believe it should be used very minimally and realistically.


----------



## Trever1t

it's not ugly  

It's a machine that brings technology to a fine art  

Maybe I'm biased, I ride a big hulky bike


----------



## nos33

it is processed to the point it is grungy.  if you like that look then great if you don't then you don't.  I like the composition but I am not fond of the grungy look.  

But it is still your photo and if you are happy with it then be happy.  don't rely too much on others criticism because people are not infallible.


----------



## vipgraphx

JRE313 said:


> vipgraphx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bynx said:
> 
> 
> 
> They should just stay in the flower or pet forums.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :lmao::lmao:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> VIP
> Once again People are are saying too much processing.
> I understand what Bynx is saying but He is also one of the most experienced HDR guys here.
> I see your points but I wanted to ask you is there too much processing on the bike itself?
> 
> Here is a photo of the bike coming straight out of a camera. Maybe this will help your opinion.
Click to expand...


JRE313 , I have told you before, take the comments like a grain of salt. Most folks giving you feedback are not into HDR if they do except it they want a "photo realistic" image. No matter what you post unless its "photo realistic" it will always be to much. Don't process photos for them process them for you and what you like. Post the photos and leave it at that. I think you have gotten much better from when you started and some of it is probably because you are listening to the advice that has help and push you. There is a point where you need to stay true to your self and thats whats going to make you better. There are to many styles photography and processing not one is right or better over another. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!

As far as your first image and your question about to much processing..

I would say IMO after looking at the original there is something that I would say you pushed to much and that would be the noise reduction.. The chrome looks great! The metal work on the bike looks odd but because I think what ever filter you used it brought out to much detail and then you went and through on a noise reduction filter or softener that gave it look that I am not fond of. I use to like using topaz denoise but I find it that it does not do a great job 100% of the time. It is a hit an miss. Sometimes it really works very well and sometimes it produces results that look weird. BUT that is just me and my opinion, it does not make it right. Like I said if you need to process images the way you like. I know you are trying to find your niche and it will come. Just don't become what others want you to become.

Bynx is experience but, he also likes a certain style as well. He said your processing was on point so if you respect his input then there you go ...listen to the ones that understand more about advanced HDR.......!!


----------



## cgipson1

vipgraphx said:


> listen to the ones that understand more about advanced HDR.......!!



So the majority here cannot critique an HDR photo because we lack the specialized knowledge the the "HDR specialists" have? So we can't judge a HDR photo as to whether it is bad or not.. based on normal art and photography philosophy / thoughts/ rules?  

SO every one else who commented negatively (the majority).. stating it is over processed IS WRONG?   What a CROCK!  lol


----------



## vipgraphx

cgipson1 said:


> vipgraphx said:
> 
> 
> 
> listen to the ones that understand more about advanced HDR.......!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So the majority here cannot critique an HDR photo because we lack the specialized knowledge the the "HDR specialists" have? So we can't judge a HDR photo as to whether it is bad or not.. based on normal art and photography philosophy / thoughts/ rules?
> 
> SO every one else who commented negatively (the majority).. stating it is over processed IS WRONG?   What a CROCK!  lol
Click to expand...


Your a chump and have NO RESPECT for YOU!! go back to your bugs section!


----------



## cgipson1

vipgraphx said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vipgraphx said:
> 
> 
> 
> listen to the ones that understand more about advanced HDR.......!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So the majority here cannot critique an HDR photo because we lack the specialized knowledge the the "HDR specialists" have? So we can't judge a HDR photo as to whether it is bad or not.. based on normal art and photography philosophy / thoughts/ rules?
> 
> SO every one else who commented negatively (the majority).. stating it is over processed IS WRONG?   What a CROCK!  lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your a chump and have NO RESPECT for YOU!! go back to your bugs section!
Click to expand...


Hahaha! I assume you mean " You are a chump, and I have NO RESPECT for YOU!! Go back to your Bug Section!".. Right? Capitalization, proper punctuation and good grammar show education and intelligence, after all!  

And you didn't answer my question!! SO EVERYBODY ELSE IS WRONG???? Is that what you are saying????


----------



## Joel_W

I really like the HDR Image. Just simply outstanding, especially when you compare it to the original non-HDR that was posted. What a tremendous improvement to the overall ambiance of the image presented to us, the viewers.  

I especially like how the different metals have different tonal qualities. Just makes it pop that much more.


----------



## vipgraphx

cgipson1 said:


> vipgraphx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So the majority here cannot critique an HDR photo because we lack the specialized knowledge the the "HDR specialists" have? So we can't judge a HDR photo as to whether it is bad or not.. based on normal art and photography philosophy / thoughts/ rules?
> 
> SO every one else who commented negatively (the majority).. stating it is over processed IS WRONG?   What a CROCK!  lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your a chump and have NO RESPECT for YOU!! go back to your bugs section!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hahaha! I assume you mean " You are a chump, and I have NO RESPECT for YOU!! Go back to your Bug Section!".. Right? Capitalization, proper punctuation and good grammar show education and intelligence, after all!
> 
> And you didn't answer my question!! SO EVERYBODY ELSE IS WRONG???? Is that what you are saying????
Click to expand...


Just to add to what I was saying the first 6 posts are of people that do not post HDR images so there feed back is going to be exactly what it is. You can judge all you want there are no laws on that but, does not mean you are right and when you judge your going to base it off a realistic world with tunnel vision on with no exceptions...thus why I said to take it with a grain of salt. 

_based on normal art and photography philosophy / thoughts/ rules?

_This is a crock- If you are afraid to break the rules than your just another robot! You can not compare soccer to baseball other than they are both sports. Trying to give advice to someone who plays soccer baseball advice is not going to work out even when they are both sports.

Same thing applies. All your feedback on HDR is always about processing. You come in close minded and prejudice from the moment you enter the HDR forum why do you even bother?  How is this helping anyone? 

Do I go into the macro or bug section and try to give advice about that..NO because, I do not like taking pictures of bugs and I have nothing to offer other than negative comments about why macros of bugs is.........fill in the blank. Why bother  posting in areas where you do not appreciate the effort or methods used it does more harm than good.

You talk about about intelligence but lack respect for people outside your bubble of piers. You are constantly rude and belittling to many folks and not just here in the HDR section but, other areas as well. 

Your a internet bully.....I would love to meet you in person and see if you have the same tone face to face.


----------



## fenderjaguar

No one is right or wrong. I say nice HDR.


----------



## Ballistics

vipgraphx said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vipgraphx said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your a chump and have NO RESPECT for YOU!! go back to your bugs section!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hahaha! I assume you mean " You are a chump, and I have NO RESPECT for YOU!! Go back to your Bug Section!".. Right? Capitalization, proper punctuation and good grammar show education and intelligence, after all!
> 
> And you didn't answer my question!! SO EVERYBODY ELSE IS WRONG???? Is that what you are saying????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just to add to what I was saying the first 6 posts are of people that do not post HDR images so there feed back is going to be exactly what it is. You can judge all you want there are no laws on that but, does not mean you are right and when you judge your going to base it off a realistic world with tunnel vision on with no exceptions...thus why I said to take it with a grain of salt.
> 
> _based on normal art and photography philosophy / thoughts/ rules?
> 
> _This is a crock- If you are afraid to break the rules than your just another robot! You can not compare soccer to baseball other than they are both sports. Trying to give advice to someone who plays soccer baseball advice is not going to work out even when they are both sports.
> 
> Same thing applies. All your feedback on HDR is always about processing. You come in close minded and prejudice from the moment you enter the HDR forum why do you even bother?  How is this helping anyone?
> 
> Do I go into the macro or bug section and try to give advice about that..NO because, I do not like taking pictures of bugs and I have nothing to offer other than negative comments about why macros of bugs is.........fill in the blank. Why bother  posting in areas where you do not appreciate the effort or methods used it does more harm than good.
> 
> You talk about about intelligence but lack respect for people outside your bubble of piers. You are constantly rude and belittling to many folks and not just here in the HDR section but, other areas as well.
> 
> Your a internet bully.....I would love to meet you in person and see if you have the same tone face to face.
Click to expand...


I think you need to get over yourself and your bias. You think Bynx's comment is hysterical, but you have no respect for CGibson and call him a bully (at least that's what I think you were trying to say)? Doesn't add up.


----------



## cgipson1

vipgraphx said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vipgraphx said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your a chump and have NO RESPECT for YOU!! go back to your bugs section!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hahaha! I assume you mean " You are a chump, and I have NO RESPECT for YOU!! Go back to your Bug Section!".. Right? Capitalization, proper punctuation and good grammar show education and intelligence, after all!
> 
> And you didn't answer my question!! SO EVERYBODY ELSE IS WRONG???? Is that what you are saying????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just to add to what I was saying the first 6 posts are of people that do not post HDR images so there feed back is going to be exactly what it is. You can judge all you want there are no laws on that but, does not mean you are right and when you judge your going to base it off a realistic world with tunnel vision on with no exceptions...thus why I said to take it with a grain of salt.
> 
> _based on normal art and photography philosophy / thoughts/ rules?
> 
> _This is a crock- If you are afraid to break the rules than your just another robot! You can not compare soccer to baseball other than they are both sports. Trying to give advice to someone who plays soccer baseball advice is not going to work out even when they are both sports.
> 
> Same thing applies. All your feedback on HDR is always about processing. You come in close minded and prejudice from the moment you enter the HDR forum why do you even bother?  How is this helping anyone?
> 
> Do I go into the macro or bug section and try to give advice about that..NO because, I do not like taking pictures of bugs and I have nothing to offer other than negative comments about why macros of bugs is.........fill in the blank. Why bother  posting in areas where you do not appreciate the effort or methods used it does more harm than good.
> 
> You talk about about intelligence but lack respect for people outside your bubble of piers. You are constantly rude and belittling to many folks and not just here in the HDR section but, other areas as well.
> 
> Your a internet bully.....I would love to meet you in person and see if you have the same tone face to face.
Click to expand...


Yo, VIP! I do use HDR! I use it as it was meant to be used.. to increase the dynamic range in photos that exceed what the camera can capture! I have been using HDR longer than you have.. I can guarantee it! The difference is that I don't use the "TONE MAPPING" part of it to produce unrealistic photos that look like cartoons, and then try to intimate that they are "ART"! 

When the majority is trying to tell you something.. and you refuse to listen, that is just being bullheaded and stubborn. 

Telling the "majority" they are wrong (when many of them have much more experience than you do.. more education than you do, and a much wider experience with photography in general (since they don't limit themselves to one small aspect of it) is just ludicrous!

Totally disregarding input from others.. (and telling others to ignore that input also) is just rude... and shows a total disrespect for everyone that comments! There are those here who comment on HDR that know something about HDR.. they just happen to disagree with your "concept" of HDR, and so you "ignore" them.. or call them "haters"! Not a good way to grow and learn, IMO!

I will concede that done properly.. some photos can benefit from Tone  Mapping.. and over-saturation! But not ALL.. not even most! Some of them are even art.. and good art! But I have seldom seen much here that qualifies.. but I have seen some!


----------



## vipgraphx

*Ballistics*

I think you should see you way out of this conversation. You have nothing to contribute.


----------



## JRE313

My photos may not be great ,but they definitely stir controversy


----------



## Trever1t

LMAO!!! Nothing better than that! :lmao:


----------



## nos33

Post the originals,  i wanna play around


----------



## vipgraphx

cgipson1 said:


> I don't use the "TONE MAPPING" part of it to produce unrealistic photos that look like cartoons, and then try to intimate that they are "ART"!



This is a close minded statement..with no understanding that things change and evolve in life. Like I said tunnel vision. Art is in the eye of the beholder not one person and their opinion.




cgipson1 said:


> When the majority is trying to tell you something.. and you refuse to listen, that is just being bullheaded and stubborn.



If I listen to everything people said not to do I would have not grown as a person and not be where I am at today. I run a successful business and it was my stubborn-ness that got me here. 



cgipson1 said:


> Telling the "majority" they are wrong (when many of them have much more experience than you do.. more education than you do, and a much wider experience with photography in general (since they don't limit themselves to one small aspect of it) is just ludicrous!



What??? I never said the majority are wrong I simply said it did not make it right? In photography and art this is never a right or wrong way its truly what the person is trying to express and or the person viewing sees. More educated, what do you know of my education? So I have typos, grammar was never my strong point but, it did not prevent me from graduating college at the top of my class! You have no clue to where I am at in my life. This is just talking out of your ass like you so much. You have limited yourself to cats and bugs.....whats the difference? Yeah you have some ok portraits in there but many of those need some work.




cgipson1 said:


> Totally disregarding input from others.. (and telling others to ignore that input also) is just rude...



Talk about rude,,who is the one that called my edit ass in another thread? That thread was about people giving that persons brackets a go so he could see different styles. Not only did you say my work was ass you posted two other rude comments about if someone was serious that they liked my processing. To top that off when someone posts something you do not like or agree with not necessarily HDR you act a fool. I have counted countless threads of you acting a fool when someone has simple question....You are one to talk and preach about being rude!



cgipson1 said:


> and shows a total disrespect for everyone that comments! There are those here who comment on HDR that know something about HDR.. they just happen to disagree with your "concept" of HDR, and so you "ignore" them.. or call them "haters"! Not a good way to grow and learn, IMO!



I ignore comments that I don't feel will help me grow. Thats the way it should be. Do you listen to everything everyone tells you? As old as you are you should know you can not make everyone happy so why try. 



cgipson1 said:


> I will concede that done properly.. some photos can benefit from Tone  Mapping.. and over-saturation! But not ALL.. not even most! Some of them are even art.. and good art! But I have seldom seen much here that qualifies.. but I have seen some!



And that is your opinion which I can respect. If you would learn to be more respectful when you post, you would not come off like a jerk and we would not be here at this point. You called me out a while back it was you who showed no respect for me, after that I will not put up with your BS. You should go back and read the post on how you have treated me in the past and see if you could not have done a better job and chose different words. I have helped so many folks with their photos and trying to understand HDR on this forum. I have personally taken time away from my work schedule to post up how to videos and threads. I have tried to be a positive speaker on behalf of HDR and stand up for those that get put down. Maybe I should back away and let them fight their own battles now. 

You made a comment in Joel's thread a while back about "noobs" and there methods of HDR. Does that make you feel superior? You see I find  that you say these things because you are lacking in a certain area of your life and it makes you feel better about yourself. You put people down to raise yourself up.


----------



## Amocholes

I think the1st one gives it that futuristic Sci-Fi  illustration look. It's a futuristic machine and the plain photo just makes it look like a machine. I like it!


----------



## Bynx

I agree with you Amocholes. The tone mapping has created a nice look for the image.


----------



## cgipson1

vipgraphx said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't use the "TONE MAPPING" part of it to produce unrealistic photos that look like cartoons, and then try to intimate that they are "ART"!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a close minded statement..with no understanding that things change and evolve in life. Like I said tunnel vision. Art is in the eye of the beholder not one person and their opinion.
Click to expand...


There is a difference between being artfully un-realistic, and being ridiculous and cartoonish! And insisting that art is in the eye of the beholder doesn't make it art for anyone else... especially if the consensus is that is NOT ART!




vipgraphx said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> When the majority is trying to tell you something.. and you refuse to listen, that is just being bullheaded and stubborn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I listen to everything people said not to do I would have not grown as a person and not be where I am at today. I run a successful business and it was my stubborn-ness that got me here.
Click to expand...


Listening might have made you better... but we will never know, will we? We also have different ideas as to what constitutes a successful business! lol!  [/QUOTE]





vipgraphx said:


> What??? I never said the majority are wrong I simply said it did not make it right? In photography and art this is never a right or wrong way its truly what the person is trying to express and or the person viewing sees. More educated, what do you know of my education? So I have typos, grammar was never my strong point but, it did not prevent me from graduating college at the top of my class! You have no clue to where I am at in my life. This is just talking out of your ass like you so much. You have limited yourself to cats and bugs.....whats the difference? Yeah you have some ok portraits in there but many of those need some work.



I guess a college education no longer requires the basic communications skills like spelling, grammar, and the ability to listen! Maybe that is why the US has fallen behind some other countries in education! 

I would be curious to know what school you graduated from.. I bet it was a trade school! Most real colleges and universities do require good communication, and the basic skills!

Cats and bugs? lol! No.. I shoot those because I enjoy them.. but I don't try to call them art either! I could shoot professionally again, but I actually turn down quite a bit of work.. because I don't really want to get back into that! That and I make more than enough money from what I do professionally... I don't need extra income! (I can't spend what I make... hardly any new toys to buy!)  You probably won't ever get to that point with a T-shirt shop and / or HDR.... but who knows?



vipgraphx said:


> Talk about rude,,who is the one that called my edit ass in another thread? That thread was about people giving that persons brackets a go so he could see different styles. Not only did you say my work was ass you posted two other rude comments about if someone was serious that they liked my processing. To top that off when someone posts something you do not like or agree with not necessarily HDR you act a fool. I have counted countless threads of you acting a fool when someone has simple question....You are one to talk and preach about being rude!



I am rude to amateurs that call themselves PRO's .. and I am rude to those that continually post images that look like cartoons.. and call them art! You said ART is in the eye of the beholder.. so is CRAP! I just call it out loud!   It's all just an opinion, right?



vipgraphx said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> and shows a total disrespect for everyone that comments! There are those here who comment on HDR that know something about HDR.. they just happen to disagree with your "concept" of HDR, and so you "ignore" them.. or call them "haters"! Not a good way to grow and learn, IMO!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *I ignore comments that I don't feel will help me grow*. Thats the way it should be. Do you listen to everything everyone tells you? As old as you are you should know you can not make everyone happy so why try.
Click to expand...


Yes.. it is obvious!!!



vipgraphx said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will concede that done properly.. some photos can benefit from Tone  Mapping.. and over-saturation! But not ALL.. not even most! Some of them are even art.. and good art! But I have seldom seen much here that qualifies.. but I have seen some!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that is your opinion which I can respect. If you would learn to be more respectful when you post, you would not come off like a jerk and we would not be here at this point. You called me out a while back it was you who showed no respect for me, after that I will not put up with your BS. You should go back and read the post on how you have treated me in the past and see if you could not have done a better job and chose different words. I have helped so many folks with their photos and trying to understand HDR on this forum. I have personally taken time away from my work schedule to post up how to videos and threads. I have tried to be a positive speaker on behalf of HDR and stand up for those that get put down. Maybe I should back away and let them fight their own battles now.
Click to expand...


Nothing wrong with HDR.. nothing at all! But when it is tone-mapped to death... and you think that is GOOD, I would not consider you a good choice for an unbiased advocate!



vipgraphx said:


> You made a comment in Joel's thread a while back about "noobs" and there methods of HDR. Does that make you feel superior? You see I find  that you say these things because you are lacking in a certain area of your life and it makes you feel better about yourself. You put people down to raise yourself up.



It is true.. many NOOBs (usually young adolescent males) do seem to go through a ridiculously tone-mapped HDR period... but most outgrow it! Some don't... and never grow, period!!  

An armchair psychiatrist too, huh? Maybe you should try doing that professionally!  lol!

Hahaha... the only thing I am lacking is the ability to ignore moronic threads!


----------



## 2WheelPhoto

> It is true.. many NOOBs (usually young adolescent males) do seem to go  through a ridiculously tone-mapped HDR period... but most outgrow it!  Some don't... and never grow, period!!



Reminds me of "selective coloring"....    but fortunately its now considered lame by the kewl crowd


----------



## cgipson1

2WheelPhoto said:


> It is true.. many NOOBs (usually young adolescent males) do seem to go  through a ridiculously tone-mapped HDR period... but most outgrow it!  Some don't... and never grow, period!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reminds me of "selective coloring"....    but fortunately its now considered lame by the kewl crowd
Click to expand...


Yep.. very similar! lol!


----------



## vipgraphx

*cgipson1* - I guess the saying you can't teach OLD dogs new tricks is true! Thats the problem with old folks you can not stand for change anything that isn't in your little perfect bubble is to far out in left field for you to even comprehend. 

I never called my self a pro and I have said time and time again I am not and do not make a living with photography. You can belittle my business choice because we all know thats what you are good at, however I pay the bills, I do not have a boss, I am happy with what I am doing and I make enough to buy what I want when I want without having to use credit cards, I coach my kids soccer all year round and I have time to enjoy my hobby and family to me that is successful. 

Arm chair psychiatrist thats good and I think you need a real one, you keep putting me down from my processing , to my beliefs, even to attack my business which you know nothing about once again. Are you trying to win a pissing contest? Or figure out who's is bigger because the more you insult and type the more it is clear that you have some personal issues going on.

I will try your method as I have had enough of your BS,

I think there are some bugs needing your attention right now so you might want to bust out your pro equipment and put your pro skills to work and go lift some rocks up and take some pictures of those maggots that get you all  hot and wet....make sure you put on that gay as hat in your self portrait to let everyone know that the pro is in the house...... or looking under rocks....

Its true with  ( Elderly have been male pros) you turn into idiots and you forget because your age what it was like when you started out...but so fast to put people down..alzheimer's  kicking in hugh...?

Like I said before I would love to be face to face and see if you still talked the talk you do now, because I would smack the **** out you!


----------



## fenderjaguar

I'm a musician first and foremost. I prefer an older style of rock n roll because to me it has more passion and it sounds better rhythmically. I don't critique newer bands because I have a biased opinion towards them. To me it just doesn't please my ears and I feel the way that I do it is better. Taking that into consideration if someone says "hey check out this band" and it doesn't fit my tastes I simply say "That's just not my style". If I'm not asked personally then I don't criticize it because nothing I have to say will benefit the person looking for opinions. I'm just not open to it. I can judge it on what I think other people will think but I can not myself find it acceptable. The same goes for photography. My eyes like a certain thing and I prefer certain looks. If I give my opinion of someones work that I myself would never apply to my own photos I have to think about it from an outside perspective and leave my bias at the door. It's that simple.


----------



## vipgraphx

fenderjaguar said:


> I'm a musician first and foremost. I prefer an older style of rock n roll because to me it has more passion and it sounds better rhythmically. I don't critique newer bands because I have a biased opinion towards them. To me it just doesn't please my ears and I feel the way that I do it is better. Taking that into consideration if someone says "hey check out this band" and it doesn't fit my tastes I simply say "That's just not my style". If I'm not asked personally then I don't criticize it because nothing I have to say will benefit the person looking for opinions. I'm just not open to it. I can judge it on what I think other people will think but I can not myself find it acceptable. The same goes for photography. My eyes like a certain thing and I prefer certain looks. If I give my opinion of someones work that I myself would never apply to my own photos I have to think about it from an outside perspective and leave my bias at the door. It's that simple.



And thats how it should be. You are being professional with the way you respond. Thats why I don't go into other parts of the forum and give my two cents as it would not be beneficial.
I wish more were like you.


----------



## cgipson1

vipgraphx said:


> because I would smack the **** out you!



Issac Asimov once wrote that "Violence is the last refuge of the Incompetent!"  Nuff said!

I think I will just put you back on "IGNORE"... where you belong!


----------



## vipgraphx

cgipson1 said:


> vipgraphx said:
> 
> 
> 
> because I would smack the **** out you!
> 
> 
> 
> Issac Asimov once wrote that "Violence is the last refuge of the Incompetent!"  Nuff said!I think I will just put you back on "IGNORE"... where you belong![/.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ahahahaahaa
Click to expand...


----------



## Ballistics

vipgraphx said:


> *Ballistics*
> 
> I think you should see you way out of this conversation. You have nothing to contribute.



This is a public discussion forum, if you want to have a private conversation with gibson about why only your opinion is relevant, PM him. Otherwise, your posts are no more valuable than mine.


----------



## vipgraphx

cgipson1 said:


> vipgraphx said:
> 
> 
> 
> because I would smack the **** out you!
> 
> 
> 
> Issac Asimov once wrote that "Violence is the last refuge of the Incompetent!"  Nuff said!I think I will just put you back on "IGNORE"... where you belong!
Click to expand...


Issac Asimov was probably a little B@$ like you and could not back up his mouth.

Oh no the ignore list what ever shall I do without your has been pro advice?

I would  put you back under the rock you crawled out from....


----------



## vipgraphx

Ballistics said:


> vipgraphx said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Ballistics*
> 
> I think you should see you way out of this conversation. You have nothing to contribute.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ballistics said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a public discussion forum
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah duh.....thats why this is being publicly viewed.....
> 
> 
> 
> Ballistics said:
> 
> 
> 
> Otherwise, your posts are no more valuable than mine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Other than the fact that I actually know how to process HDR and you don't..I smell some brown nose-ing going on....
Click to expand...


----------



## Jaemie

Here's my heavily-edited, and quickly done, version. It's just a draft of an alternative concept; please ignore the sloppy clone/removal of background items and the other technical issues.


----------



## fenderjaguar

I like that Jaemie! That's a nice alternative to the HDR. I'd like to see that with an HDR effect to it to compare. Nice work though.


----------



## fenderjaguar

To basically totally be hard to please, something I would like to see is the sign at the bottom right removed and the right leg holding up that bar cloned.


----------



## Ballistics

vipgraphx said:


> Ballistics said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vipgraphx said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Ballistics*
> 
> I think you should see you way out of this conversation. You have nothing to contribute.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah duh.....thats why this is being publicly viewed.....
> 
> 
> 
> Ballistics said:
> 
> 
> 
> Otherwise, your posts are no more valuable than mine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Other than the fact that I actually know how to process HDR and you don't..I smell some brown nose-ing going on....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By this post, I can tell that you are probably around 15-16 years old, so therefore I can't take anything that you say seriously.
Click to expand...


----------



## vipgraphx

Ballistics said:


> vipgraphx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ballistics said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah duh.....thats why this is being publicly viewed.....
> 
> 
> 
> Other than the fact that I actually know how to process HDR and you don't..I smell some brown nose-ing going on....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By this post, I can tell that you are probably around 15-16 years old, so therefore I can't take anything that you say seriously.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah a 15 year old with 4 kids, a house two two cars, a business and bills. I wish I was 15-16 I am 37 and I just don't put up with peoples bull shi__t. I am a man not a coward who likes to
> be an internet bully like your friend does. I am cool but I have had enough of his BS and I will stoop down to his level now because that is the only way to deal with someone like that.
Click to expand...


----------



## Ballistics

vipgraphx said:


> And thats how it should be. You are being professional with the way you respond. Thats why I don't go into other parts of the forum and give my two cents as it would not be beneficial.
> I wish more were like you.



You mean like this? 



vipgraphx said:


> so you take a bad HDR and make it worse? weak!!!!



Very beneficial.


----------



## Ballistics

vipgraphx said:


> Ballistics said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vipgraphx said:
> 
> 
> 
> By this post, I can tell that you are probably around 15-16 years old, so therefore I can't take anything that you say seriously.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah a 15 year old with 4 kids, a house two two cars, a business and bills. I wish I was 15-16 I am 37 and I just don't put up with peoples bull shi__t. I am a man not a coward who likes to
> be an internet bully like your friend does. I am cool but I have had enough of his BS and I will stoop down to his level now because that is the only way to deal with someone like that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are a man whose word is worthless then. You literally contradicted every word you preached.
Click to expand...


----------



## fenderjaguar

Seriously, as a kind of new member this one thread alone totally puts me off as a member of this forum and what it's all about. There are people on here posting biased opinions just to post them, 3rd grade put downs and comebacks, and very little knowledgeable and helpful criticism being given. For real. This makes this forum look BAD. If I was brand new to this whole thing and clicked on this thread I would swear this was a bunch of 16 year olds on AOL from back in the day bantering back and forth like drama queens.


----------



## vipgraphx

Ballistics said:


> vipgraphx said:
> 
> 
> 
> And thats how it should be. You are being professional with the way you respond. Thats why I don't go into other parts of the forum and give my two cents as it would not be beneficial.
> I wish more were like you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like this?
> 
> 
> 
> vipgraphx said:
> 
> 
> 
> so you take a bad HDR and make it worse? weak!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Very beneficial.
Click to expand...

 


Ballistics said:


> vipgraphx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ballistics said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah a 15 year old with 4 kids, a house two two cars, a business and bills. I wish I was 15-16 I am 37 and I just don't put up with peoples bull shi__t. I am a man not a coward who likes to
> be an internet bully like your friend does. I am cool but I have had enough of his BS and I will stoop down to his level now because that is the only way to deal with someone like that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are a man whose word is worthless then. You literally contradicted every word you preached.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You bite and I will bite back. You want to team up with Charlie than so be it....and I could care less what you think.. or how old you "THINK" I am...
Click to expand...


----------



## Trever1t

fenderjaguar said:


> Seriously, as a kind of new member this one thread alone totally puts me off as a member of this forum and what it's all about. There are people on here posting biased opinions just to post them, 3rd grade put downs and comebacks, and very little knowledgeable and helpful criticism being given. For real. This makes this forum look BAD. If I was brand new to this whole thing and clicked on this thread I would swear this was a bunch of 16 year olds on AOL from back in the day bantering back and forth like drama queens.



as not a new member here I agree. 


This kinda banter is crap, knock it off now.


----------



## Ballistics

vipgraphx said:


> Ballistics said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vipgraphx said:
> 
> 
> 
> And thats how it should be. You are being professional with the way you respond. Thats why I don't go into other parts of the forum and give my two cents as it would not be beneficial.
> I wish more were like you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like this?
> 
> 
> 
> Very beneficial.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ballistics said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vipgraphx said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are a man whose word is worthless then. You literally contradicted every word you preached.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You bite and I will bite back. You want to team up with Charlie than so be it....and I could care less what you think.. or how old you "THINK" I am...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No one is teaming up. You got on your soap box and were extremely hypocritical talking about bullies and such. Then you seek out a thread of mine to put down something I did to kill time. No I don't know how to do HDR *yet.* Point is, all I said was that your comments didn't match up with your actions... and they still don't. There's always time to repent though. How about we clean things up and play nice.
Click to expand...


----------



## vipgraphx

fenderjaguar said:


> Seriously, as a kind of new member this one thread alone totally puts me off as a member of this forum and what it's all about. There are people on here posting biased opinions just to post them, 3rd grade put downs and comebacks, and very little knowledgeable and helpful criticism being given. For real. This makes this forum look BAD. If I was brand new to this whole thing and clicked on this thread I would swear this was a bunch of 16 year olds on AOL from back in the day bantering back and forth like drama queens.



You have to understand that the HDR forum is a place that should be just that HDR. I have been helping the original poster for a while now to help him develop his skills. Time and time again there are put downs from the same folks over and over about his and others work. Rather than offering helpful information they just blurt out words like...over processed or it's cartoony. Where is the actual critique and information that would help him stray away from that and make his images look more realistic as they would like it look like? He keeps trying and the snide remarks keep coming in. 

When I view other photos for example a portrait in the forum I see peoples comments much more helpful, like watch your crop, correct your exposure, position better and so on and they are not as rude. Even they help with camera settings and what not. These are helpful to the OP

But, when it comes to HDR the its all unjustified rudeness. If someone says its over processed thats just a statement not a helpful solution. Why not ask what sliders are you using, what filters are you using, try doing this? 

This is the point....I explained to JRE313 that there were certain things going on and I even took the time to try something on his photo to help it improve. Perhaps it was not an improvement in some folks eyes but I took the time to try to help...


----------



## Overread

People give it a rest with the egos. 

Have your opinion - make your case, defend your point if needed; but stop with slinging mud at each other every time you disagree. You can each have your own views on what is too much or too little or what is the right direction. Justify your case if you need to, query and question others - but remain polite, respectful and don't lower yourselves to petty squabbles and insults.


----------



## fenderjaguar

At some point you have to just ignore others opinions that you don't agree with and realize that you can't change someone elses mind. There will always be people with biased opinions hating on everything that doesn't fit into their preference. Going on and on for an hour about it isn't going to change anyones way of doing things. That's their right to be stuck in their ways and it's your right to be open minded. BUT when the disagreement on one thread trickles over into another persons thread and everyone starts to spite others work as a result of what they said or think about something else it becomes immature and out of bounds.


----------



## tirediron

*We're done here!  OP, it must be a good image to generate so much emotion! *


----------

