# Is it worth it to go to school for photography?



## JbleezyJ (Dec 6, 2010)

Or would it better just to learn from others and own your own and just jump into the field and save that college money on equipment and investing on starting things up yourself?

I love photography and I want to do it for a living I just don't know where to start to actually try and make a living from it. For those of you who are making a living being a photographer I'd like some advice.


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## MohaimenK (Dec 6, 2010)

Depends on you but why pay for something you can learn from books and practice? It doesn't involve a diploma. Just my opinion.


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## mwcfarms (Dec 6, 2010)

Depends on what kind of learner/student the person is too. If you pick up things very quickly etc. I'm sure one of the proffesionals will chime in.


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## 8ball (Dec 6, 2010)

I'll tell you right now hallmark school of phoptography is 60 G's for 10 months


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## Big Mike (Dec 6, 2010)

> I love photography and I want to do it for a living


Well, do you have any idea about the type of photography you want to do for a living?  If you want to run your own business, then a business education would probably be a lot more beneficial than a photographic education.  If you want to work directly for another company, then it may not matter, but having the education credentials might help land that type of job (although skill & talent will probably trump credentials).  

Either way, photography isn't one of the trades that requires education & certification, like Doctors, Lawyers, Engineers, Electricians etc.  But it usually doesn't hurt to get some education.


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## JbleezyJ (Dec 6, 2010)

It's just I want to do photography and my mom wants me to get a college degree and I don't feel like I need to go to college for photography but then again what if I don't make it in the photography field. I'm just unsure of what I should do.

I want to do about all kinds of photography commercial, fashion, portraits, product, fine art, photo journalism, stock I want to do it all. Not so much weddings though. haha


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## Stradawhovious (Dec 6, 2010)

8ball said:


> I'll tell you right now hallmark school of phoptography is 60 G's for 10 months


 
And community education courses are almost cheap as free.

[speaking as a non professional photographer, but also as someone who has experience in specialized diplomas.....]

It really depends on your endgame.  Do you wish to be a full time photographist, or will this be a supplemental income?  Have you done the research as to the average salary of a photographologist?  Are you comfortable making about $16,000 a year for the first several years of your career? (based on an educated guesstimate of income in your average LARGE city..... cut that in half if your city has a population smaller than you shoe size)

I could be wrong, you could be the best thing to happen to photology since reusable flashes, but based on the number of sharks in the proverbial tank you would have your work cut out for you to make it out the gate with a primary income in photography.  I could also be wrong about how difficult it would be to break into a career as a professional photomaker, but based no what I've been reading here I don't think I am.

My advice to you.... and I wish I took this advice before getting my two near useless degrees in stringed instrument restoration.....  talk with folks that have graduated from this school 5 years ago.  Figure out if they are making a living with what they learned at the school..... figure out how much they make (on average) per year.  I have learned that people who have graduated from these types of schools (both specialized and four year) are more than willing to give lots of information to prospective students.

Talk to professionals in your town.  See if they offer community ed classes..... I would bet that more than one of them could use a hand around the studio from an unpaid intern........

Just sayin'.

FWIW, my .02, YMMV and all that.  Feel free to completely dsregard the above advice.


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## Stradawhovious (Dec 6, 2010)

And one more thing...... if you want to go to college and get a degree.. (and you should....) look into a nice 4 year degree majored in business management (then maybe minor in photography). That would, in my opinion, be more important to a private photography studio than a degree in photography. 

Again, FWIW, My .02 and all that...


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## AprilEye (Dec 6, 2010)

An on-line or correspondence course may not be a bad idea.  I just signed up for a Fundamentals of Digital Photography course through New York Institute of Photography.  It has 16 lessons which they mail to you including books, cds, dvds, etc. and it is interactive online as well.  Something to check out.  I saw their ad in Popular Photography magazine and you can work at your own pace.  You have up to 2 years to complete the course.  Here is the info:  NYIP - Overview of NYIP photography courses - Professional photography, digital photography


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## orb9220 (Dec 6, 2010)

Yep major in Business or even Graphic Artists with photography as minor. 
Would make your mother feel more secure that you are getting a real degree.
And will give you the additional skills to become a successful photographer if that is what you choose. 
If not and you change your mind then left with skills that can be applied to many other fields.
.


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## KmH (Dec 6, 2010)

Here is some pertinent information:

Yearly Income of a Photographer | eHow.com

You might also read: Professional Photographer Magazine - Great Photography Articles & Photographer Product Reviews


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## Bitter Jeweler (Dec 6, 2010)

JbleezyJ said:


> I want to do about all kinds of photography commercial, fashion, portraits, product, fine art, photo journalism, stock I want to do it all.


 
Good luck with that business model.


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## mishele (Dec 6, 2010)

How old are you?? Go to college.......at the very least go for biz. Your mom is looking out for you. That doesn't mean that you can't become a photographer......it just means you have more options.


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## flyingember (Dec 6, 2010)

you'll be broke within 3 months.  assuming you have three months of living expenses in your savings

I run a photo business part time.  I work full time in IT.  I've made < 4 figures this year with photography.  I really need several thousand dollars to put towards advertising.


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## Big Mike (Dec 6, 2010)

Also, as sad as it is, there is a difference between liking photography and having to make a living from it.  What I mean is that when you are forced to do it, to pay the bills, it may not be as much fun anymore.  
But don't be put off by that...being able to make your living, doing what you truly love, is the big key to being happy in life.  

If you think that maybe you just really like photography...then become a doctor or a dentist etc.  Those are the people who can actually afford all the cool photography gear and can afford to travel to the cool places to take photos.  :er:


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## Bitter Jeweler (Dec 6, 2010)

Big Mike said:


> If you think that maybe you just really like photography...then become a doctor or a dentist etc. Those are the people who can actually afford all the cool photography gear and can afford to travel to the cool places to take photos. :er:


 
Hey! Or a Jeweler!


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## Hannah2 (Dec 6, 2010)

Do LOTS of job-hunting, now, before you decide on schooling. Browse web sites of major employers, see what kinds of jobs are available, what they pay, and what the schooling requirements are. 

Just having a degree opens up so many more possibilities. If you're in high school, it may be easier to get financial aid if you go now instead of waiting.


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## JbleezyJ (Dec 6, 2010)

yeah I know not many make enough for a living off of photography but I don't really know what else I need to do. I''m a 2nd year college student with no major about to get my AA degree. I don't know where to go from here. I want to do photography but its no guarantee I can make a living from it. I guess we'll see uhh I feel like I'm at a roadblock not knowing what to do with my life haha.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Dec 6, 2010)

Did you pull photography out of a hat?


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## JbleezyJ (Dec 6, 2010)

no I've been doing photography for a little over a year now and I love it and want to go places with it. I just don't know where to start and haven't figured out what kind of photography I really want to dive into.


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## sobolik (Dec 6, 2010)

JbleezyJ said:


> Or would it better just to learn from others and own your own and just jump into the field and save that college money on equipment and investing on starting things up yourself?
> 
> I love photography and I want to do it for a living I just don't know where to start to actually try and make a living from it. For those of you who are making a living being a photographer I'd like some advice.



Go to college for something that can pay the bills like accounting. Then join the school newspaper as a photographer and join other organizations. If you have talent you will prosper if you don't you will wither.  Every year countless students graduate from schools with degrees only to learn that the degree does nothing to get them a job. Same with a degree in photography.  If you are old enough and wise enough (emphasis on wise as opposed to sticking foot in mouth type) then do a few weddings for free and see how it goes.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Dec 6, 2010)

JbleezyJ said:


> no I've been doing photography for a little over a year now and I love it and want to go places with it. I just don't know where to start and haven't figured out what kind of photography I really want to dive into.



Ah, ok. Sorry it just sounded like it was an arbitrary decision, cuz you didn't mention any background. 

Like everyone has said, pick a major that you can live off, grow your photography on the side.


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## ChadHillPhoto (Dec 6, 2010)

I went to Brooks Institute of Photography and graduated with my BA in commercial advertising. 
I am now a professional photographer working in Los Angeles.

Pro's:
I can shoot anything at a professional level, after 3 years of school I am a very proficient and skilled photographer.
Con's:
I have large student loans that are very difficult to pay off while being freelance.


You may want to intern for a photographer whose work you really like, before taking the leap to pay for a formal education. 
You may be able to learn all that you need while working for someone else.

Regardless, being a professional photographer is a very competitive field as a business, taking pictures is about 10% of what I do. So understand that being a professional means most of your time is spent finding work, networking, promoting etc.


Whatever you choose, may you find success!


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## pgriz (Dec 6, 2010)

Making living at doing photography is a business, with the photography taking up maybe 25% of the time and the rest of it being marketing, selling, administration, book-keeping, contact management, risk management, client management, and if you get there, employee management.

In any business, specialization matters, because the time it takes to do stuff decreases as specialization and experience increase.  Less time, means less cost, means perhaps making more than slave wages because your gross margin is up.  Specialization also means fewer competitors, and a better chance that your specialty will be seen as unique and therefore worth paying money for.

There are a number of business models.
One:  Low margin, high volume, strictly commodity-level stuff.  Caters to the price-sensitive (another word for cheap) buyer.  CostCo, Walmart, big-box style.  Photographic style &#8211; santa pictures or on-line catalogue.  Few competitors as few can make any kind of money on this unless they have it down to an efficient process.

Two: the opposite of the first &#8211; very exclusive, very high price, very unique.  Exclusive domain of the &#8220;name&#8221; photographer.  Huge talent, even bigger ability to self-promote, and even bigger amount of luck.  Few competitors, as the other &#8220;names&#8221; don&#8217;t shoot in the same style.

Three:  something in between.  A very hard place as clients want to get the higher-end quality, but pay the lower-end price.  Lots of competitors.  Specialization and efficiency key to making it a business instead of a non-profit hobby.

As for the OP&#8217;s idea that you don&#8217;t need college &#8211; um, literacy, ability to synthesize, ability to seek out relevant information, knowing the context and the background to a story or a technology&#8230;  those are all the things that college and university training give you.  If you&#8217;re in business for yourself, you better know how to write well enough to market, clearly and precisely enough to write a contract, know enough math to figure out a projected cash-flow, know enough psychology to understand what motivates people to buy, etc. etc.  Do you know how to research something &#8220;from scratch&#8221;?  If not, remember that technology changes every few years &#8211; how are you going to keep yourself current?

It&#8217;s easy to start being a business person.  It is damn difficult to do it successfully.
Learn a trade or a profession.  Then do photography for the love of it, as a way to relax.


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## white (Dec 6, 2010)

Skip school, go to some third-world shithole and photograph the locals and become a rising superstar.


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## Sbuxo (Dec 6, 2010)

i would highly suggest university if you're going to do Fine Art Photography.


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## skieur (Dec 6, 2010)

JbleezyJ said:


> It's just I want to do photography and my mom wants me to get a college degree and I don't feel like I need to go to college for photography but then again what if I don't make it in the photography field. I'm just unsure of what I should do.
> 
> I want to do about all kinds of photography commercial, fashion, portraits, product, fine art, photo journalism, stock I want to do it all. Not so much weddings though. haha


 
When working for a company, a photographer without a college degree, only does photography but is bottom man on the totem pole related to job position and salary. With a college degree in any subject, the photographer can become a project leader, producer, director, or supervisor of other photographers.  A friend of mine went from photographer to editor of an internal company newspaper to an executive trouble-shooter and his salary went to 6 figures.  He had a university degree and business courses.

Another route is diversification.  I learned to write scripts, produce and direct television, do presentations in French and English, as well as photography.  

Both routes can put you in the top 10% very quickly, salary-wise, if you learn fast and develop the required skills.

skieur


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## mrpink (Dec 6, 2010)

If this is a real passion of yours, the answer will not come from this thread.

Only you can define "worth".






p!nK


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## DogGoneGood (Dec 6, 2010)

I'm glad you started this topic, as I was considering starting the same topic myself.

I'm late 20's, and currently working full time (non-photography job). I love doing photography as a fun hobby, and I'm always looking to improve my photography skills. I lurk on here reading for at least a couple hours a day, about things like camera settings, proper lighting, ect. and then try to get out and work with my camera anytime I have the time to do so. I truly just love working with my camera and taking photographs, especially things like wildlife, macro bug shots, and old architecture.

I really have no desire to ever open my own business, but rather I'd love to work with/alongside an already established photographer/company one day. I really can't make much less than I already do at my current job (sad yet funny, but true) so I figure if photography doesn't pay much, at least I'll be doing something I love (but possibly having to work a second job on the side, depending on the salary).

However, I've been wondering myself as well lately, if it'd be smart to go to college and persue a degree in photography. The local large state University where I live offers a Bachelor's in Photography, and I know someone who graduated with that degree a few years ago and now has their own photography business on the side. I don't know them that well (regular customer at my job), but I've talked to them a bit on the side and they said that they were pleased with their education, and found that for a "newbie" or beginner, it was a good starting point for getting the foundation laid for learning about the in's and out's of working with a camera.

I'm okay at learning hands on or reading direction (most of what I've learned about camera's, I've learned from just sitting back and reading on this forum, and then taking that knowledge and practicing it with my camera), but I'm the type of learner that seems to do better when someone is actually in person and guiding me as I go when I'm learning something new. That's the main reason I've considered going to school one day (it'd likely be another couple years) and persuing a major in photography.


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## pgriz (Dec 7, 2010)

If you&#8217;re not the owner, then either you are a partner, an employee, or a contract worker. A partner is usually expected to contribute equity to the business (either money, or &#8220;sweat" equity, or contacts, or something else of value), and contribute to the management duties. An employee does what they are asked/told (depends on the mood of your employer). An employee in a small enterprise usually has a job because the owner or the one running the operation is tired of doing all the small &#8220;joe&#8221; jobs himself/herself, and has enough business to pay someone to do that for them. A contract worker delivers what was specified in the contract, gets paid, and then it&#8217;s goodbye till the next time.

In every situation, other than the one where you&#8217;re the boss, your value depends on your (potential) contribution. Your contribution, in turn, partly depends on your education and training. There are those who compensate for a lack of education by incredible work ethic or a brilliant talent, but those are very few. The rest of us need to acquire various skills, knowledge and attitude to allow ourselves to be attractive to an employer. Since in the modern economy things change all the time, both employers and employees have to be flexible enough to change as well, otherwise they become obsolete very quickly. Formal education can give you the skills to become a life-long student, and provide credentials to a potential employer that you are smart enough to have achieved those credentials. A college or university degree usually mean to the employer that you managed yourself well enough to get through college and/or university, and can be relied on to manage others.

If you&#8217;re thinking of entering the photographic business, look around you and check out the competition. Figure out who the most successful ones are in the area you want to work in, and determine WHY they are successful. Then look at their less-successful competition and figure out why they are not as successful. Who are the customers? What are THEIR needs, and why are they paying money to get their photography done? If you&#8217;re going to work for someone, the same exercise holds. Figure out what major headache you can relieve them of, and you will most probably be quickly employed.

I am beating the drum for education because it is the contributor to one of the three factors that determine employability. The first is skill, knowledge and training, usually obtained through education. The second is working ability (effort, organization, self-direction), and the third is character. The last you usually get from your parents, the second is the one that you control the most, and the first is the set of tools you acquire to leverage the other two.


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## Patrice (Dec 7, 2010)

Big Mike said:


> Also, as sad as it is, there is a difference between liking photography and having to make a living from it.  What I mean is that when you are forced to do it, to pay the bills, it may not be as much fun anymore.
> But don't be put off by that...being able to make your living, doing what you truly love, is the big key to being happy in life.
> 
> If you think that maybe you just really like photography...then become a doctor or a dentist etc.  Those are the people who can actually afford all the cool photography gear and can afford to travel to the cool places to take photos.  :er:



Mike is right.

Also, not long ago on one of these forums it was pointed out that the average yearly wage for a professional photographer, wether college trained or not, was $25k a year. Just how much money do you to spend for the potential to earn such a princely sum?


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## lildlege1 (Dec 7, 2010)

AprilEye said:


> An on-line or correspondence course may not be a bad idea. I just signed up for a Fundamentals of Digital Photography course through New York Institute of Photography. It has 16 lessons which they mail to you including books, cds, dvds, etc. and it is interactive online as well. Something to check out. I saw their ad in Popular Photography magazine and you can work at your own pace. You have up to 2 years to complete the course. Here is the info: NYIP - Overview of NYIP photography courses - Professional photography, digital photography


 
I took the NYIP Course last year. Just a bit of info. I learned soe things but didnt get as much out of it as I am getting from hands on practice and books from B&N. Just my opinion. Good Luck.


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