# How to bend them regulations - with an unusual "drone"



## KAP Jasa (May 14, 2018)

Hello!

I've been reading complaints about tight drone regulations, restricting and even prohibiting flying almost everywhere (and especially in cool places).

Perhaps there is a way around them. Use a kite!

A kite large enough can lift up to 5 kilos. With a simple rig you point your camera (with an intervalometer) and hope for the best, but you can always go full RC and have the rig tilt and pan the camera as you wish.

Not only the kite is way cheaper than a drone (especially for lifting better and heavier cameras), they are inherently safer, quieter (the noise is probably the most crucial factor for flying restrictions, especially in national parks), nature-friendly etc - and the drone restrictions usually dont apply to them.  Plus, it is really (really really) fun ...

Some kite aerial photos we did (Nikon 1 J1 and Canon A810):






(see the kite line on the left)

























And I'll go full spam mode now and ask you to*  <Link Deleted> *(completely non-commercial, though) for more aerial photos, our gear, kite plans and KAP tips ... ;-)

Hope this helps and/or inspires someone to get a kite and start flying!


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## Jeff15 (May 14, 2018)

Interesting idea, not bad results as well...


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## Jeff G (May 14, 2018)

Nice execution but a no no here in the US.


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## ClickAddict (May 14, 2018)

The learning curve to get proficient enough with a  kite to have confidence in flying your camera gear is much higher I would assume than learning to control a drone. (As many are self landing etc...)

And you certainly have limitations with a kite in terms of where you have to be with respect to your intended composition.  (Upwind)

I can certainly see it being useful in some circumstances however, and a good idea around bans in some areas.


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## KAP Jasa (May 14, 2018)

Jeff G said:


> Nice execution but a no no here in the US.



Really? Why? I mean - there are rules and regulations about kids flying kites in the US?


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## Destin (May 14, 2018)

KAP Jasa said:


> Jeff G said:
> 
> 
> > Nice execution but a no no here in the US.
> ...



Seconded. I know plenty of adult kite clubs in my area of the US... what’s a “no-no” about it?


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## 480sparky (May 14, 2018)

What happens when the wind isn't blowing?


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## KAP Jasa (May 14, 2018)

ClickAddict said:


> The learning curve to get proficient enough with a  kite to have confidence in flying your camera gear is much higher I would assume than learning to control a drone. (As many are self landing etc...)
> 
> And you certainly have limitations with a kite in terms of where you have to be with respect to your intended composition.  (Upwind)
> 
> I can certainly see it being useful in some circumstances however, and a good idea around bans in some areas.



Well ... maybe. The kite is technically unsteerable - it flies as it wants. However, it can't crash (well, it can, but not as spectacular, and even if the wind completely stops, it functions as a giant parachute) and it can't wreak havoc if the controls fail. True, there are serious limitations regarding your intended subject, but than again the sheer thrill of getting there is a part of the fun.

A kite can never be a replacement of a drone. How to point the camera correctly and how to get the kite above the place you want is a black art. But the fun (this word keeps repeating itself, sorry), and the load capability are really impressive. Worth a try! ;-)


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## KAP Jasa (May 14, 2018)

480sparky said:


> What happens when the wind isn't blowing?



Well ... then it won't fly.


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## KAP Jasa (May 14, 2018)

Jeff15 said:


> Interesting idea, not bad results as well...



Thanks!


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## limr (May 14, 2018)

Destin said:


> KAP Jasa said:
> 
> 
> > Jeff G said:
> ...



Yes, there are FAA regulations on kite flying, and also about aerial photography. Doesn't mean it can't be done, but just that a person has to be aware of regulations. And I'm sure some of these same regulations are present in Slovenia, especially given that the OP acknowledges them in the very title of this thread.

http://academic.emporia.edu/aberjame/airphoto/legal/legal.htm
Kite Aerial Photography (KAP) Safety Guidance
Unlike drones, kite photography insists on staying under the radar


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## KAP Jasa (May 15, 2018)

limr said:


> Destin said:
> 
> 
> > KAP Jasa said:
> ...




I'm sorry, I see I sounded a bit snappy and didn't intend it ... Of course there are rules and regulations regarding kites (almost) everywhere. However, those are less strict compared to drones - and are less strictly enforced. 

As far I've observed, people are getting ever more annoyed by drones flying around. The flight safety is perhaps less important to 'general public' (though everyone glees when some idiot is arrested for flying a drone into an airport) than the noise and the perception of privacy invasion.

While kites, they are different. Every time we fly them somewhere public (which we do really rarely) people come in awe and appreciation. It is kids stuff, flying kites, so when two crazy adults do it, it brings back nice memories. It's (I am repeating myself again) *fun*!

That's what I meant - not *avoiding* the regulations (or that the rules don't exist / don't apply for kites), but *bending* them a little. Noone will angrily call the police for a kite. While for a drone ... well, I've personally seen that happen. ;-)


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## Cody'sCaptures (May 15, 2018)

Not gonna lie the thought of strapping my camera to a kite terrifies me, as does spending$1000 on a flying camera. Cool idea and nice photos


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## KmH (May 15, 2018)

FAA regulations pertaining to MOORED BALLOONS, *KITES*, AMATEUR ROCKETS, UNMANNED FREE BALLOONS, AND CERTAIN MODEL AIRCRAFT:
eCFR — Code of Federal Regulations

*§101.13   Operating limitations.*
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may operate a moored balloon or kite—

(1) Less than 500 feet from the base of any cloud;

(2) More than 500 feet above the surface of the earth;

(3) From an area where the ground visibility is less than three miles; or

(4) Within five miles of the boundary of any airport.

(b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to the operation of a balloon or kite below the top of any structure and within 250 feet of it, if that shielded operation does not obscure any lighting on the structure.


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## tirediron (May 15, 2018)

KmH said:


> ...(1) Less than 500 feet from the base of any cloud;.


Ehhh.... Howzzat???????????????????????????


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## Jeff G (May 15, 2018)

tirediron said:


> KmH said:
> 
> 
> > ...(1) Less than 500 feet from the base of any cloud;.
> ...



It's basically saying it must remain visible even in low cloud cover. The FAA is all about line of sight. When they first started regulating drones their wording was all over the place and contradicted itself frequently. You could look in three different sections on there website and come up with three different interpretations. I sometimes think they do this on purpose but then I remember its run by bureaucrats.


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## vintagesnaps (May 15, 2018)

Nothing like encouraging people to risk breaking the law! lol It wouldn't be funny though if one would crash onto a house below (or would hit somebody). I suppose you could be out in the middle of nowhere but still I'd think a kite would be harder to control especially with a camera attached to it. 

The drones are considered Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs) and different from those radio controlled (RC) toys that people would use in their backyards, etc. Of course it's fine for kids and adults to fly RC toy planes and kites, if it comes down it wouldn't likely cause any damage, and how far/high can it possibly go? When drones were first being sold & bought they were seen flying as high as planes (seen by pilots) and something small could potentially cause a plane to crash. That's why the FAA developed laws, because too many people were using them in irresponsible ways.


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## KAP Jasa (May 15, 2018)

Cody'sCaptures said:


> Not gonna lie the thought of strapping my camera to a kite terrifies me, as does spending$1000 on a flying camera. Cool idea and nice photos



 ... yeah, it's not for the faint of heart - at least the first couple of flights (and every time the wind stops for a moment).


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## pixmedic (May 15, 2018)

some great shots there!
cleverly done. might be a good workaround to areas with strictly enforced drone laws. everyone assumes the drones have a camera on them, but  how many people think that when they see a kite? i would never have given any thought to it until now. 

its interesting how noone bats an eye at shots in abandoned buildings on private property, or on railroad tracks...but start talking about drone photography (and obviously kites) and out come the rules and statutes.


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## petrochemist (May 16, 2018)

In the UK, I believe regulation regarding kites & tethered balloons near building are similar to those regarding drones.

I certainly wouldn't want to put my newest camera/lens under a kite, but there are plenty of cheap compacts that could work well, at least if a suitable triggering option is arranged.

Given my success in flying kites with the kids a balloon appeals more to me.
I've even got as far a grabbing a hydrogen generator that was being ditched at work, the chances are it will no longer work by the time I get round to trying a balloon out...


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## vin88 (May 21, 2018)

petrochemist said:


> In the UK, I believe regulation regarding kites & tethered balloons near building are similar to those regarding drones.
> 
> I certainly wouldn't want to put my newest camera/lens under a kite, but there are plenty of cheap compacts that could work well, at least if a suitable triggering option is arranged.
> 
> ...


    hydrogen?  "remember the Hindenberg"  vin


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## petrochemist (May 21, 2018)

vin88 said:


> petrochemist said:
> 
> 
> > In the UK, I believe regulation regarding kites & tethered balloons near building are similar to those regarding drones.
> ...



I work with hydrogen every day so I'm quite familiar with it's flammability (explosive range in air is 4 to 74%). It also burns with an invisible flame so the flames on the Hindenburg where not just hydrogen.
In addition I doubt there would be a large build up of static charge in a tethered balloon used for relatively short periods. Even if it did catch fire the results wouldn't be too dramatic, just the equivalent of crashing a kite...


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## vin88 (May 21, 2018)

thanks,  an air born camera is a good idea.


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## DSP121 (Jul 4, 2018)

Amazing pictures from the sky!


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## KAP Jasa (Jul 4, 2018)

vin88 said:


> thanks,  an air born camera is a good idea.



Thank you!


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## ac12 (Jul 26, 2018)

Is your kite line ABSOLUTELY non-conductive.
If not, if the kite comes down over a 25,000+ volt power line, well . . . 

As kids we were taught to NOT fly kites near the power lines.


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## petrochemist (Jul 26, 2018)

ac12 said:


> Is your kite line ABSOLUTELY non-conductive.
> If not, if the kite comes down over a 25,000+ volt power line, well . . .
> 
> As kids we were taught to NOT fly kites near the power lines.



AFAIK there are no HT power lines within 20 miles of my home. But I guess even 1000 volts would be uncomfortable if your string is damp, so avoiding all powerlines is very wise.


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## KAP Jasa (Jul 26, 2018)

true. trees eat kites and water destroys cameras. but powerlines, they be scary. no flying over roads, houses, powerlines - unless it is absolutely necessary. ;-)


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