# Should I ask for my money back?



## pisto1981 (Jun 11, 2013)

We had a recent photo shoot done with our daughter, where the photographer took 80 odd pictures in an hour session. They asked us to pick 25-30 of our fav that they would edit and put on a cd with the unedited pictures. I thought this was a great deal as the price was good. They were recommended to us by my partners mother. BTW This was just prior to me getting a camera and understanding anything whatsoever. 

Today we received our pictures. Stating that im unhappy with the results is a understatement! I'll link 3 of the pictures so you can see what im talking about;

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn284/pisto1981/IMG_6273.jpg
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn284/pisto1981/IMG_6340.jpg
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn284/pisto1981/IMG_6310.jpg

Would any of you pay for these? Am i blowing things out of proportion? I look at the EXIF and see they shot the whole shoot at f8 1/125. Many pictures even miss the focus point, i.e chin in focus but eyes blurry.

We are supposed to have another 3 shoots with them during our daughters 1st year.

Thanks for listening and for any feed back. I really feel i should be asking for my money back


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## DanOstergren (Jun 11, 2013)

Not sure if this is the right forum for this. This forum is for posting your own photos of others. I think you would get an array of much better responses to your thread if you were to post it in a discussion forum instead.

And in my honest opinion, you get what you pay for when you hire a cheap photographer without making absolutely sure that their work is exactly what you want.


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## pisto1981 (Jun 11, 2013)

My bad, could a mod please move it?


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## amolitor (Jun 11, 2013)

There's nothing wrong with a constant aperture and shutter speed when you're shooting with flash. They might have been adjusting flash power as needed, or using TTL flash which means the camera is doing that for them.

That said, these are not that great


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## ronlane (Jun 11, 2013)

If you are unhappy with them, I would talk with the photog about it, as a customer. Bring to light the OOF and specific things that bother you about them. Only then would I determine if I wanted to continue with the other 3 sessions.

BTW, I can only see one of the links.


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## tirediron (Jun 11, 2013)

Just for your own information, there are only two links, and only one of them (6273) works.  Asking if you should request a refund is really akin to a new photographer asking how much they should charge; it's a question only you can answer, since there's only example image available at the moment, I'm hesitant to offer an opinion.  I will say that the example image is not of a calibre I would consider to be 'professional' as the focus is off and the lighting is to say the least, uninspired.

I will say however that the "will edit 20-30 images and include all of the unedited images on a CD" should have been a really, really, REALLY big red flag about this photographer's level of experience.  No working photographer I know would give you ANY unedited images, and if you wanted fully enhanced 20-30 images from a session with me, I'd be asking for $800+.


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## tirediron (Jun 11, 2013)

Moved to General Shop Talk as it is business-related, albeit from the customer's aspect.


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## sm4him (Jun 11, 2013)

A mod will be along to move it to the appropriate place. In the meantime...

I guess the main thing I have to wonder is this: Did you SEE this photographer's portfolio before you paid them to do a shoot (and evidently, based on your post, signed a contract for 3 more shoots)? I mean, they may have been recommended to you by someone, but before *I* paid them any money, I'd want to see their portfolio.

If you signed on for these shoots without ever seeing what they were producing, then I'd say you've just bought yourself a lesson.

If you DID see their portfolio, then my next questions are:
--Was the quality of the photos in the portfolio similar to what you received? If so, you have no absolutely no room for complaint.
--Was the quality of photos in the portfolio significantly better than what your received? If so, then yes, I would either ask for a reshoot or a refund.

EDIT: I was able to see pictures at both the links. But since nobody else can, maybe I broke one of them.


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## pisto1981 (Jun 11, 2013)

ronlane said:


> If you are unhappy with them, I would talk with the photog about it, as a customer. Bring to light the OOF and specific things that bother you about them. Only then would I determine if I wanted to continue with the other 3 sessions.
> 
> BTW, I can only see one of the links.



Links fixed


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## imagemaker46 (Jun 11, 2013)

How much did the "photographer" charge for this shoot?


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## pisto1981 (Jun 11, 2013)

tirediron said:


> Just for your own information, there are only two links, and only one of them (6273) works.  Asking if you should request a refund is really akin to a new photographer asking how much they should charge; it's a question only you can answer, since there's only example image available at the moment, I'm hesitant to offer an opinion.  I will say that the example image is not of a calibre I would consider to be 'professional' as the focus is off and the lighting is to say the least, uninspired.
> 
> I will say however that the "will edit 20-30 images and include all of the unedited images on a CD" should have been a really, really, REALLY big red flag about this photographer's level of experience.  No working photographer I know would give you ANY unedited images, and if you wanted fully enhanced 20-30 images from a session with me, I'd be asking for $800+.



This is exactly what i thought today 



sm4him said:


> A mod will be along to move it to the appropriate place. In the meantime...
> 
> I guess the main thing I have to wonder is this: Did you SEE this  photographer's portfolio before you paid them to do a shoot (and  evidently, based on your post, signed a contract for 3 more shoots)? I  mean, they may have been recommended to you by someone, but before *I*  paid them any money, I'd want to see their portfolio.
> 
> ...



I think we brought ourselves a lesson well learnt.  While, we have seen previous work of a higher standard, this was from  work that they hung in their cafe. So it was nothing official


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## pisto1981 (Jun 11, 2013)

imagemaker46 said:


> How much did the "photographer" charge for this shoot?



£125 for 4 shoots with free print from each and then £50 per shoot for CD. 

We really had this coming. Thanks for letting me vent though everyone


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## tecboy (Jun 11, 2013)

Next time ask a any photographer for an online portfolio.  Then you decide.


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## tirediron (Jun 11, 2013)

pisto1981 said:


> imagemaker46 said:
> 
> 
> > How much did the "photographer" charge for this shoot?
> ...


Tell you what, for round-trip airfare, a few nights on your couch, meals and you-buy-the-beer, I can be on a plane tomorrow to reshoot for you!


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## ronlane (Jun 11, 2013)

John's starting a bidding war. I"ll buy my own beer


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## imagemaker46 (Jun 11, 2013)

pisto1981 said:


> imagemaker46 said:
> 
> 
> > How much did the "photographer" charge for this shoot?
> ...



So for roughly $300 Canadian you ended up with pictures you don't like.  Well unfortunately this is the lack of quality that is being done and passed off as photography these days thanks to digital and everyone wanting to make money with new found "professional passion"  I would cancel the rest of the shoots, and tell them and anyone else that will listen how unhappy you have been with the photographs.  The only way for these "professionals" to learn is when the customers let other people know that they are really aren't very good.


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## cptkid (Jun 11, 2013)

I would not pay for those photos


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## frommrstomommy (Jun 11, 2013)

If I were you I would not ask for my money back but I would definitely let the photographer know you were unhappy and not do the rest of the shoots you have lined up.


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## cwcaesar (Jun 11, 2013)

frommrstomommy said:


> If I were you I would not ask for my money back but I would definitely let the photographer know you were unhappy and not do the rest of the shoots you have lined up.



Exactly this!


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## gsgary (Jun 11, 2013)

I live up the road and i wouldn't do it for that, they are probably some of the worst i have seen , if they were shooting with studio flash there is nothing wrong with F8 1/125


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## SCraig (Jun 11, 2013)

I wouldn't ask for my money back, I'd tell them I want a reshoot.  You paid their fee because you wanted the photographs more than you wanted the money, and they are claiming to be professional photographers.  I would tell them that you paid for professional-quality results and are not seeing that in the images they provided so you expect them to reshoot them, and continue to do so, until the results are at the level of professionalism they profess to have.  If they can't provide the expected quality, they are free to hire a true professional photographer, at their expense, to complete the project.


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## esselle (Jun 11, 2013)

Oh wow, so you paid in full up front? Hmmm. I'd ask for a do over and see what they say. Just good business sense, they should want u to be happy as that brings them referrals. 

Hope u end up satisfied in some way. Sorry this happened.


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## pixmedic (Jun 11, 2013)

Im with Imagemaker46 on this one.  I see a reshoot as being fairly pointless. if you weren't happy with the pictures the first time, what difference will there be NEXT time that will improve their picture taking skills? if there was no contract stating what you would get however, I see there being little to no recourse. (maybe try judge joe brown)   I would definitely say something to the photographer. ideally? ask for a refund. MAYBE get a partial refund for the shoots not done yet. realistically? consider this a lesson in hiring a photographer and move on. Word of mouth can be really good OR really bad for a photographer. remind them of that.


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## esselle (Jun 11, 2013)

^^^ unfortunately...this 


If the deal was that u pay whether u are satisfied or not, probably not going to get a refund or do over. But, as u say pixmedic, if they want referrals....

How could this go on in any other business? Lol Where U pay up front and too bad to you if you don't like what you bought. That's just wrong. If they have integrity, they will offer to shoot again for free or give u a partial refund.


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## pisto1981 (Jun 12, 2013)

Thanks everyone, I'm going to ask him for a full refund on the 3 shoots left and a partial refund on the 1st shoot and CD.

Lesson learnt!!! Its a shame though. Now, we will not have any professional pictures of our daughter as a newborn as she is now 4 months old. Quite upsetting for us both.

We will have to rely on the ones i've taken, which are far from a pro standard


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## tirediron (Jun 12, 2013)

pisto1981 said:


> ...We will have to rely on the ones i've taken, which are far from a pro standard


Perhaps, BUT, at least you have them, and you have the memory of capturing them. In fifteen years when she brings home her first boyfriend with long hair, and a bone through his nose (  ) all this will be forgotten!


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## jamesbjenkins (Jun 12, 2013)

tirediron said:


> pisto1981 said:
> 
> 
> > imagemaker46 said:
> ...





ronlane said:


> John's starting a bidding war. I"ll buy my own beer



Ok, I'll play. You pick up the airfare and give me a couch for 1 night, 3 meals and I'll bring homemade brownies for dessert. Here's some of my previous work for example:

Harper, 1 year




Harper, 9 months


 

Harper, 6 months




So, do we have a deal?


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## TrustDust (Jun 12, 2013)

In all honesty I can't see myself paying for those photos myself. Focus issues, subject issues...it is just not pleasing to look at


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## cgipson1 (Jun 12, 2013)

my bid: I will skip the beer, and cook some really good meals for you!


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## cgipson1 (Jun 12, 2013)

OP... the shots you got are very typical of the new breed of "PROFESSIONAL" photographers today. Most have entry level gear, and even less knowledge! See a lot of that...


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## ghache (Jun 12, 2013)

How much did you pay? that would be a first indication that something is wrong. "£125 for 4 shoots with free print from each and then £50 per shoot for CD."

Second, did you check portfolio? everything on his portfolio is out of focus like this, then id say you didn't check. if all of his portfolio is tack sharp, images you like. just tell the photographer was not consistent with the work he promoted and that you want a refund. i wouldn't bother with a reshoot, he gave you crap the fist time he will give you crap the second time


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## pisto1981 (Jun 12, 2013)

jamesbjenkins said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> > pisto1981 said:
> ...



How i wish you were here, lol


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## KmH (Jun 12, 2013)

pisto1981 said:


> Thanks everyone, I'm going to ask him for a full refund on the 3 shoots left and a partial refund on the 1st shoot and CD.


Did you sign a contract? If not - BIG *red* flag #2.

Caveat Emptor


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## tecboy (Jun 12, 2013)

I just don't understand why this photographer is trying to make money.  This person should do this for free to gain experiences, not making profit.  I shoot photographs on my friends for fun and practices, and give them photos as return for letting me shooting them.


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## Light Guru (Jun 12, 2013)

tecboy said:


> I just don't understand why this photographer is trying to make money.  This person should do this for free to gain experiences, not making profit.  I shoot photographs on my friends for fun and practices, and give them photos as return for letting me shooting them.



Well it's quite simply because they know that there will be people out there who are willing to pay them.  The are two parts of a photography business, the photography and the business. You can get away with knowing less photography if you know more business.


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## tecboy (Jun 12, 2013)

This is reckless and irresponsible.  If this photographer keeps this up, this person will get sued and jeopardized his own reputation.


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## Light Guru (Jun 12, 2013)

tecboy said:


> This is reckless and irresponsible.  If this photographer keeps this up, this person will get sued and jeopardized his own reputation.



Vary few people will go to the trouble to sue someone for the relatively small amount of money they payed for some family photos. The time and cost of the lawsuit would be more then the few hundred dollars they may have spent.


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## tecboy (Jun 12, 2013)

You never know this photographer can charges higher and get away.  There are scam artists out there.


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## Vautrin (Jun 15, 2013)

How much is the time of a normal adult worth?

125 GBP for 4 shoots is 31.25 GBP per shoot.

I can tell you, if I do a photo shoot it takes 2-3 hours, and post processing takes substantially longer (read 10 hours).

So, were I shooting for 31.25 GBP a shoot, I'd be earning 2.60 GBP an hour.

If someone is willing to earn that on a photoshoot, that should give you some indication of their level of experience.

Or, perhaps, you've been short changed and they're not going to be able to service you properly at all.

Either way, such a cheap rate is indicative of the quality, and frankly, you got what you paid for


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## Derrel (Jun 15, 2013)

I would pay for the photos from the first shoot, and call them "baby photos", and be done with that. Ask for a refund of the balance, and keep the pics safe, as memento's of your baby's early days; even awful baby photos are still "baby photos", and some day in the future they will be cherished, even if they are technically not all that great.


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## Aakajx (Feb 1, 2014)

I wouldn't pay for them. But then again if I was the photographer who toke these.. I wouldn't expect you to pay. 
I understand everyone has to start somewhere.. But you shouldn't change that amount of money for s h ! T.


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## tirediron (Feb 1, 2014)

This thread has been dormant for over six months!


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## Gavjenks (Feb 1, 2014)

> Would any of you pay for these? Am i blowing things out of proportion? I look at the EXIF and see they shot the whole shoot at f8 1/125. Many pictures even miss the focus point, i.e chin in focus but eyes blurry.


Maybe somebody already mentioned this, but for a studio shoot, I would generally EXPECT the aperture and speed to be constant throughout all of the photos.  When you control the light and keep it constant, there's really no reason to ever change them, unless on an artistic whim, and even then, maybe like half as one block and half as another or something.

Different numbers for each one would be a signal that they don't really know what they are doing.

That said, f/8 is a little odd for this shoot. I'd probably go f/4 or something (more blur in the back, but not too open since the baby doesn't conveniently line up with the focal plane as much as you might like), but meh. That's not refund-worthy stuff.



> This thread has been dormant for over six months!


Oh, dammit. I always check myself not to do that, but not ones that other people have necro'ed...


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