# 7D question



## sactown024 (Nov 7, 2012)

My local camera shop "Hunts Camera" has a used Canon 7D for sell for $1000 but the pop up flash does not work. I was wondering if there is a reason why I would want this function considering I have a speedlite and triggers. I just don't want to make a mistake, would you guys buy a used 7D for 1,000 flash working or broken? is this a decent price?


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## Overread (Nov 7, 2012)

One worry with buying broken hardware is that sometimes one part breaks in advent of other parts breaking as well and, as a result, what starts as a cheaper purchase can snowball into a higher cost as the unit develops further faults and then requires either replacement or repair. 


If its just the popup and nothing but that then its not too limiting. The 7D does have some limited ability to set of other flash units with the popup (so I recall though I've never used it) but if you've already got wireless remote units then it shouldn't be very if any limit to you. A popup flash is certainly not essential to have, most fullframe camera bodies and top level ones don't even have a popup flash. 

So its really just the problem of deciding if you want to gamble on a broken unit or not.


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## sactown024 (Nov 7, 2012)

hmm good points, the guy i talked to said the person that traded it in used it for video only so it basically has no shutter actuations, but who knows if hes lying....

the other option I have is a 60D they have for $750 in mint condition but I really want the 7D


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## Overread (Nov 7, 2012)

Has the camera been sent to a service centre to asses the damage itself? Without that I would be concerned that the broken popup flash might be hiding further internal damage which might go undetected until a point in the future (in other words that the unit itself has a higher degree of possible further component failure). 

It could just be that the little switch under the hot-shoe has gotten stuck down (it does happen) and thus the popup won't come up - it could be a firmwire error - or it could be more extensive internal damage. 


As for video and shutter actuations, shutter limits are only best guess estimations on a shutters lifespan, some will fail early and others far later. Sadly its a bit of a lottery there and I've no idea if the action of keeping the shutter open for long periods of time for video puts any additional or different stresses on teh mechanical mechanism


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## sactown024 (Nov 7, 2012)

these are great points, i dont want to drop a grand on something thats going to have hidden issues, sucks, i really got excited when he called me back  

I think I saw a 7D in these forums for sale, ill go check that i guess.


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## MLeeK (Nov 7, 2012)

I wouldn't do it. Usually the reason the pop up doesn't work is cuz something has been spilled into it somehow... That doesn't bode well for the whole camera.


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## sactown024 (Nov 7, 2012)

yeah, looks like the guy selling his here decided not to sell it, i cant seem to find one anywhere


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## swiftparkour94 (Nov 7, 2012)

It's hard to find a perfectly working 7D's with not too many shutter accusations. I've seen the average price of them (body only) roughly around $1,200. Maybe during holiday season when stores drop their prices, the used and/or refurbished ones will too. Craigslist is always an option. 

If you aren't sure about shutter accusations, ask the owner if you can install magic lantern on it real quick to find out, it's displayed in a section of it's menu. Since magic lantern runs off the card, you don't have to worry about uninstalling it.

Good luck, I will probably start my hunt for a good used 7D too late next year


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## JAC526 (Nov 7, 2012)

I wouldn't buy a 7d.  I didn't see hardly any difference other than autofocus between the 60D and the 7D.  Now having said that my friend owned them both so I have limited amount of time messing with them.  

But unless I really needed the better autofocus I think I would skip the 7D use the money saved for some glass.


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## sactown024 (Nov 7, 2012)

hmmm, yeah i questions this also but I have heard rants and raves about the 7D, i did play with one for a few minutes and loved it although i never touched a 60D. I really like that the 7D has 19 AF points and better AF since I tend to shoot a lot of candids I am usually in AF mode.


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## sactown024 (Nov 7, 2012)

while on the subject of broken cameras, I also found a 60D used on CL with the 18-135 lens, he was asking $900 but after days of negotiating I got him down to $700 with the lens. BUT now he tells me that the camera is in flawless condition besides the lcd screen, he said it has some green broken pixels, whats up with that?


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## MLeeK (Nov 7, 2012)

Ask him what's up with that. We don't know what happened to it. 
It's a flip out screen, it's far more susceptible to damage.


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## swiftparkour94 (Nov 7, 2012)

sactown024 said:
			
		

> while on the subject of broken cameras, I also found a 60D used on CL with the 18-135 lens, he was asking $900 but after days of negotiating I got him down to $700 with the lens. BUT now he tells me that the camera is in flawless condition besides the lcd screen, he said it has some green broken pixels, whats up with that?



Don't bite on that. Seems like a guy trying his hardest to get rid of a crapped up condition DSLR. Who knows what else is wrong with it, apparently there is things he didn't want to tell you to begin with


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## swiftparkour94 (Nov 7, 2012)

sactown024 said:
			
		

> hmmm, yeah i questions this also but I have heard rants and raves about the 7D, i did play with one for a few minutes and loved it although i never touched a 60D. I really like that the 7D has 19 AF points and better AF since I tend to shoot a lot of candids I am usually in AF mode.



If you shoot fast moving subjects then the 60D is out of the question. That's the purpose I want one for. Then I'm buying the A7D underwater housing to shoot surfers. Ooooh yeaaaa :]


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## MLeeK (Nov 7, 2012)

swiftparkour94 said:


> sactown024 said:
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> 
> 
> ...



Who told you that the 60D is out of the question for fast moving subjects? You need to not generically repeat sh!t that you have been told cuz you are really rather wrong.


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## sactown024 (Nov 7, 2012)

Yeah, not sure what the body has to do with moving subjects. 

I found a 7d on CL with a sandisk extreme III 8gb and 2 batteries for $1100. Might jump on that, it's in excellent condition according to him and photos.


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## swiftparkour94 (Nov 7, 2012)

MLeeK said:
			
		

> Who told you that the 60D is out of the question for fast moving subjects? You need to not generically repeat sh!t that you have been told cuz you are really rather wrong.



It's a convenience thing, if you can live without it then get it


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## MLeeK (Nov 7, 2012)

swiftparkour94 said:


> MLeeK said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What are you talking about? You have no clue what you are talking about. Just stop now.


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## swiftparkour94 (Nov 7, 2012)

MLeeK said:
			
		

> What are you talking about? You have no clue what you are talking about. Just stop now.



Oh I'm sorry. More AF points and improved AI SERVO doesn't effect anything


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## Majeed Badizadegan (Nov 7, 2012)

swiftparkour94 said:


> It's hard to find a perfectly working 7D's with not too many shutter *accusations*. I've seen the average price of them (body only) roughly around $1,200. Maybe during holiday season when stores drop their prices, the used and/or refurbished ones will too. Craigslist is always an option.
> 
> If you aren't sure about shutter *accusations*, ask the owner if you can install magic lantern on it real quick to find out, it's displayed in a section of it's menu. Since magic lantern runs off the card, you don't have to worry about uninstalling it.
> 
> Good luck, I will probably start my hunt for a good used 7D too late next year



Dude my shutter has so many accusations against it. I accused it of making friends with the shady dust particle gang. I told it if I found it hanging with the dust particles one more time, it would be grounded! 




swiftparkour94 said:


> *If you shoot fast moving subjects then the 60D is out of the question.* That's the purpose I want one for. Then I'm buying the A7D underwater housing to shoot surfers. Ooooh yeaaaa :]



Have you ever talked out of your face, because usually it seems that the things you say are coming out the other end?



swiftparkour94 said:


> It's a convenience thing, if you can live without it then get it



Just. 

Stop. 

Talking. 

It's better to say nothing than spread misinformation.


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## swiftparkour94 (Nov 7, 2012)

Rotanimod said:
			
		

> Dude my shutter has so many accusations against it. I accused it of making friends with the shady dust particle gang. I told it if I found it with hanging with the dust particles one more time, it would be grounded!
> 
> Have you ever talked out of your face, because usually it seems that the things you say are coming out the other end?
> 
> ...



Refer to my other most recent message


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## Majeed Badizadegan (Nov 7, 2012)

swiftparkour94 said:


> Refer to my other most recent message



Hmm...

Let's think about this. 

Am I going to take advice from some punk kid who thinks he knows everything, or am I going to rely on my knowledge of the 60d considering the fact_ I own one and have shot 50,000+ frames on it?
_
Refer to this message: Stop talking out of your @$$ and go figure out what your shutter accusations are.


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## swiftparkour94 (Nov 8, 2012)

Rotanimod said:
			
		

> Hmm...
> 
> Let's think about this.
> 
> ...



You should have added, "or not admit to his intelligence for such a young age."

If I knew everything, I wouldn't be on this forum. Shutter accusations matter depending on how much frames you shoot each outing. Why would you want one with a high count selling for the same price of a refurbished one? The higher it is, the more risk it is to buy and can be quit an inconvenience which can result in missed photo opportunities.


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## semicolon (Nov 8, 2012)

swiftparkour94, I think you may have missed one of his points.


ac·cu·sa·tion  (ky-zshn)
n.
1. An act of accusing or the state of being accused.
2. A charge of wrongdoing that is made against a person or other party.

accusation [&#716;ækj&#650;&#712;ze&#618;&#643;&#601;n]
n
1. an allegation that a person is guilty of some fault, offence, or crime; imputation
2. (Law) a formal charge brought against a person stating the crime that he is alleged to have committed



Activations may be what you meant to say.

ac·ti·vate  (kt-vt)
tr.v. ac·ti·vat·ed, ac·ti·vat·ing, ac·ti·vates
1. To set in motion; make active or more active.
2. To organize or create (a military unit, for example): activate the National Guard.
3. To treat (sewage) with aeration and bacteria to aid decomposition.
4. Chemistry To accelerate a reaction in, as by heat.
5. Physics To make (a substance) radioactive.
6. Biology To convert (certain biological compounds) into biologically active derivatives.
acti·vation n.
acti·vator n.


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## Majeed Badizadegan (Nov 8, 2012)

semicolon said:


> swiftparkour94, I think you may have missed one of his points.
> 
> 
> ac·cu·sa·tion  (ky-zshn)
> ...



Getting warmer, but no.


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## swiftparkour94 (Nov 8, 2012)

semicolon said:
			
		

> swiftparkour94, I think you may have missed one of his points.
> 
> ac·cu·sa·tion  (ky-zshn)
> n.
> ...



Ok


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## Majeed Badizadegan (Nov 8, 2012)

swiftparkour94 said:


> You should have added, *"or not admit to his intelligence for such a young age."*
> 
> If I knew everything, I wouldn't be on this forum. Shutter accusations matter depending on how much frames you shoot each outing. Why would you want one with a high count selling for the same price of a refurbished one? The higher it is, the more risk it is to buy and can be quit an inconvenience which can result in missed photo opportunities.



I think you may be the most socially mal-adjusted person I've ever encountered on this forum. How is it possible you are so unaware of how douchey you act?


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## swiftparkour94 (Nov 8, 2012)

Rotanimod said:
			
		

> I think you may be the most socially mal-adjusted person I've ever encountered on this forum. How is it possible you are so unaware of how douchey you act?



Give me examples


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## Majeed Badizadegan (Nov 8, 2012)

Spin this wheel

75% of the time, you'll read something stupid. It's a fun game!


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## swiftparkour94 (Nov 8, 2012)

Rotanimod said:
			
		

> Spin this wheel
> 
> 75% of the time, you'll read something stupid. It's a fun game!



I'm on mobile and when I clicked the link I didn't see anything special....


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## sactown024 (Nov 8, 2012)

Is there a big difference between the 60D and 7D? is the focus points and AF motor noticeable better?


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## fjrabon (Nov 8, 2012)

JAC526 said:


> I wouldn't buy a 7d.  I didn't see hardly any difference other than autofocus between the 60D and the 7D.  Now having said that my friend owned them both so I have limited amount of time messing with them.
> 
> But unless I really needed the better autofocus I think I would skip the 7D use the money saved for some glass.



The differences between the two are pretty extensive.  7D has more robust controls, faster burst, larger buffer, _*substantially*_ better build quality, as you noted faster and more accurate AF, 7D has a flash sync socket and multi-flash support, dual DIGIC processors, 100% viewfinder (60D is 96%).  Basically the 7D is a huge upgrade in every possible way, except sensor quality, where they are the exact same.


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## fjrabon (Nov 8, 2012)

ah, TPF, where people repeatedly talk about how they think cameras they've never used perform.  Of all the things that go on here, this is the one that drives me up the wall every time.

I personally don't love the 60D, but only in comparison to the 7D.  Sure, the 7D is a better camera.  But to say something like '[the 60D] is out of the question for fast moving objects' either means you're a terribly inept photographer or you are talking out of your rear end, or most likely both.  It's a perfectly fine camera to shoot action.  MLeek is one of the best action shooters on this forum, she knows what she speaks of.


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## sactown024 (Nov 8, 2012)

mleek does actions shots? I thought she was a studio shooter?


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## JAC526 (Nov 8, 2012)

Its actuation. Shutter actuation.


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## dixiek55 (Nov 8, 2012)

I shoot a 60D for sports, wildlife ect. Are there better cameras to shoot action with? Yes! But the 60d does work for action!


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## billross77 (Nov 8, 2012)

I just bought a refurbished 7d from b&h for $1149 with no tax and free shipping. I think this is the way to go.


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## sactown024 (Nov 8, 2012)

they dont have and refurbished or used ones right now : /


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## MLeeK (Nov 8, 2012)

sactown024 said:


> mleek does actions shots? I thought she was a studio shooter?



Are you kidding?


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## MLeeK (Nov 8, 2012)

Canon Digital 7D 18 MEGAPIXEL WITH BATTERY & CHARGER (CF CARD ) DIGITAL SLR INTERCHANGEABLE LENS CAMERA - KEH.com


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## sactown024 (Nov 8, 2012)

MLeeK said:


> sactown024 said:
> 
> 
> > mleek does actions shots? I thought she was a studio shooter?
> ...



I guess I havnt been here long enough to see you post any.


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## MLeeK (Nov 8, 2012)

You made me choke on my coffee this morning! 
Yes, I am a portrait and wedding photographer, but I also shoot sports-HEAVILY. If you were to weigh portrait TIME against sports time I'd be considered more of a sports photographer. Now income wise I am a wedding and portrait photographer. 
Just look for my started posts. Most of the photos I have posted have been sports. 
I have a pretty strict rule of no critique of a client image in a public internet forum because I would NEVER want the client to accidentally stumble upon their images and the subsequent critique that goes with it.


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## sactown024 (Nov 8, 2012)

Sweet, is there actually paying customers for sports photography besides the obvious college and pro sports?


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## fjrabon (Nov 8, 2012)

MLeeK said:


> You made me choke on my coffee this morning!
> Yes, I am a portrait and wedding photographer, but I also shoot sports-HEAVILY. If you were to weigh portrait TIME against sports time I'd be considered more of a sports photographer. Now income wise I am a wedding and portrait photographer.
> Just look for my started posts. Most of the photos I have posted have been sports.
> I have a pretty strict rule of no critique of a client image in a public internet forum because I would NEVER want the client to accidentally stumble upon their images and the subsequent critique that goes with it.



Yeah, I've started doing the same thing.  Which probably leads to me showing slightly inferior work, since everything I post these days are shots I didn't send in.  I usually will post the 'just on the edge' stuff that hit the cutting floor.


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## fjrabon (Nov 8, 2012)

sactown024 said:


> Sweet, is there actually paying customers for sports photography besides the obvious college and pro sports?



You can get contracts with high schools.  However, most of that work goes to the studios that do their senior portraits and school photos, since they usually agree to give the studio an exclusive contract on those shots if the studio agrees to shoot their events for free.  

A few schools here and there will contract individuals to cover games.  After that you have freelance work for newspapers, which is essentially a non-existent market these days.  After that you're hoping for an occasional random gig here and there.


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## MLeeK (Nov 8, 2012)

sactown024 said:


> Sweet, is there actually paying customers for sports photography besides the obvious college and pro sports?



Not really. I work for a multitude of payers. Like fjrabon said there are a few schools who do pay for coverage, there are parents and sports booster groups who pay for coverage, if you work for the local papers you'll get some gigs for that. Mostly I get paid here and there for the main coverage which doesn't come anywhere near covering costs. Then I sell to the parents which makes it up. 
It started as a marketing thing for me. I wanted to get more visible and more into the senior market, so I started shooting more than just my kid's sports. Then I ended up with a few paying contracts and parents buying from me, so I kept it up. I got picked up for some staff work on various different things for the local papers (we have 2 in the county-north and south-both owned and operated by the same company.) 
At this point this part of my marketing plan pays for itself. I am covering my minimal costs and making some peanuts on the side. So, in the end I am making out. I love the sports, I love shooting the sports. I break even, but I get SEEN and in contact with the parents, seniors, administrators, etc. Those are the people who I want to book me for something that REALLY pays-and they do, so my marketing piece is working with 0 out of pocket expense.


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## swiftparkour94 (Nov 8, 2012)

fjrabon said:
			
		

> ah, TPF, where people repeatedly talk about how they think cameras they've never used perform.  Of all the things that go on here, this is the one that drives me up the wall every time.
> 
> I personally don't love the 60D, but only in comparison to the 7D.  Sure, the 7D is a better camera.  But to say something like '[the 60D] is out of the question for fast moving objects' either means you're a terribly inept photographer or you are talking out of your rear end, or most likely both.  It's a perfectly fine camera to shoot action.  MLeek is one of the best action shooters on this forum, she knows what she speaks of.



Sorry if that came out too high strong. That's really not what I meant. If you want a persistently consistent camera with sports, I believe the 7D would be the better option over the 60D because of the dual DIGIC processors and 19 AF points (FPS aside). You can freeze action with any camera, but when it comes to more focused shots (assuming you aren't blazingly fast with 1 AF point) and keeping up with the subject in focus the 7D seems like the better choice for the extra money. Lenses do matter, but really it's a personal preference thing


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## MLeeK (Nov 8, 2012)

swiftparkour94 said:


> fjrabon said:
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You've blown any credibility you ever had-which wasn't much to begin with. A swift about face isn't going to fix it. Go outside and play or something.


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## swiftparkour94 (Nov 8, 2012)

MLeeK said:
			
		

> You've blown any credibility you ever had-which wasn't much to begin with. A swift about face isn't going to fix it. Go outside and play or something.



I'm always playing. I'm on my shift


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## Majeed Badizadegan (Nov 8, 2012)

MLeeK said:


> You've blown any credibility you ever had-which wasn't much to begin with. A swift about face isn't going to fix it. Go outside and play or something.



If he stopped talking he'd sound smarter.


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## fjrabon (Nov 9, 2012)

MLeeK said:


> sactown024 said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet, is there actually paying customers for sports photography besides the obvious college and pro sports?
> ...



Yep, if the school pays at all for it, it pays so little that it is only worth the time and shutter actuations if you're doing it to get portrait contracts or advertise to get portraits done.  It's completely unviable as a paying entity unto itself.  You could perhaps break even or make a bit of cash, but nowhere near enough to be worth the time and effort.  And gear.  Shooting sports is freaking expensive.  And because of how awful many high school stadiums' lighting is, in a lot of ways high school sports are harder than pro or college sports.


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## Snapda9 (Nov 28, 2012)

MLeeK said:


> Canon Digital 7D 18 MEGAPIXEL WITH BATTERY & CHARGER (CF CARD ) DIGITAL SLR INTERCHANGEABLE LENS CAMERA - KEH.com




Hello MLeek, Have you dealt with this company before? I've been bouncing around like a beach ball between the 60d and the 7d for my wife for Christmas...If this is a reputable site I think I'll pull the trigger on the 7D! Porters in my home town wants $1400 + 7% tax. Thats a big difference. Thanks in advance...Scott


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