# What qualifies one as a photographer?



## DSLR noob (Apr 23, 2007)

The other day I was looking through my Facebook at my friends and was amazed to see how many of my friends said that they were photographers on their pages. Later I ask about their exposure and such only to find that many of them are just teenagers who buy a super compact point and shoot, leave it on full auto, and literally, point, then shoot. Some even don't take shots for art but later on just "think a shot looks cool." Many of them know nothing aobut focal length, aperture, shutter speed, ISO, DOF, etc. Then I got to thinknig. Should _I_ even be calling myself a photographer? I mean I have a DSLR yes, and I understand how to use the meter well enough to use it in full time manual but does that make me a photographeR? I do take pictures for the sake of taking pictures, not just snapshots that I later "think look cool" (although it happens). I have only been into my camera since December, only 4 months, is that long enough? Do you need a certain amount of experience? Do your photos have to "wow" others? (sadly I do not think any of my photos are spectacular to others, just friends that know nothing about photography, no one on here) Or do you have to be a paid professional to truly be called a photographer?

What is your say?


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## fightheheathens (Apr 24, 2007)

well...first we must define art....
just kidding...thats a whole other bag of worms.

you're a photographer if you take pictures for the sake of taking pictures...if that makes any sense.


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## Aquarium Dreams (Apr 24, 2007)

It sounds like the people you're talking about are just looking for labels to tack onto themselves for appearance's sake.  It's not just with photography.  I've known people who make such claims on their myspace as:  "I am a dancer, model, singer, actress, photographer, and entertainer."  O rly?  Well, I've just written this response post, so now can I call myself a writer?

What if I
threw in some
line breaks--
(then) 
could I 
call myself
a 
poet?

A person can call themselves whatever they want, but some people might challenge that person to convince them.  If you feel comfortable calling yourself a photographer, do it.  Personally, I pick and choose the situations where I call myself a photographer because a) I'm not making money at it, so it's currently a hobby/passion and not a proper title/profession and b) the possibility of arguing with strangers makes it not worth it to me.


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## darich (Apr 24, 2007)

i got my first SLR in 1995 and have upgraded several times - i now have the equipment listed in my signature.
I've sold numerous prints and even sold a holiday shot to a calendar for publication in Germany.

But I woldn't call myself a photographer. I may be better than some at taking pics but that doesn't justify the tag.

I wouldn't call myself a photographer unless i was a pro or even earning a good proportion of my income from it.
If pushed i'd say i was an amatuer photographer.

On the other hand, my website says "I'm a photographer from Blackwood".

I guess I'd use the label to suit the situation. In general terms I'm not but if it means i get a sale because someone thinks I'm "better" then i'll use it.


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## fmw (Apr 24, 2007)

I go with heathens.  A photographer is one who makes images with a camera.  There are many levels to this, of course, but the definition is pretty broad.


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## StreetShark (Apr 24, 2007)

Aquarium Dreams said:


> It sounds like the people you're talking about are just looking for labels to tack onto themselves for appearance's sake.  It's not just with photography.  I've known people who make such claims on their myspace as:  "I am a dancer, model, singer, actress, photographer, and entertainer."  O rly?  Well, I've just written this response post, so now can I call myself a writer?
> 
> What if I
> threw in some
> ...



Funny how you listed photographers along side actor, model, and singer


But really why would you want to be called a photographer? It's a word or a label. I love photography and its pretty much all I ever think/talk about other than school and I could care less if others saw me as a photographer. As long as I'm having fun.


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## neea (Apr 24, 2007)

A friend of mine once questioned my 'photographer' title.
Her way of defining it was 'Have you made in money from taking pictures?' to which I answered 'Yes'. So to her I am now officially a photographer because I've made oh... $455 (she doesnt need to know the exact amount  )

When asked what I do I usually say photographer (aside from my 'real' job), then add how I plan to have my own studio and darkroom within a few years. It will one day be a fulltime thing for me. The only reason I'm working my current job is to fund my future purchases (and pay current bills of course).


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## Christie Photo (Apr 24, 2007)

fmw said:


> A photographer is one who *makes* images with a camera.  There are many levels to this, of course, but the definition is pretty broad.



Fred is hitting right on my measure of a photographer.  When one begins to realize he/she is MAKING photographs (rather than TAKING pictures), taking control of the process...  compositon, content, etc....  THAT'S when you become a photographer.

Pete


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## Aquarium Dreams (Apr 24, 2007)

StreetShark said:


> Funny how you listed photographers along side actor, model, and singer




It's funny how they do it.  All the people I was thinking of have private profiles now.  I guess they realized that people were laughing at them.  Myspace has become a lot less amusing now that people can make their profiles private.


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## Hertz van Rental (Apr 24, 2007)

What makes a photographer? Being able to ask for £3,000 for a days work with a straight face


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## zendianah (Apr 24, 2007)

Aquarium Dreams said:


> It sounds like the people you're talking about are just looking for labels to tack onto themselves for appearance's sake. It's not just with photography. I've known people who make such claims on their myspace as: "I am a dancer, model, singer, actress, photographer, and entertainer." O rly? Well, I've just written this response post, so now can I call myself a writer?
> 
> What if I
> threw in some
> ...


 

I agree with this view...


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## gmarquez (Apr 24, 2007)

I happen to think that anyone that takes pictures can call themselves a photographer.

That does not make them a professional photographer (one who does photography as a profession).

Nor does it make them a good or great photographer (one who takes, on average, good or great photographs).

I think that it's not a problem for amateurs like myself to call themselves photographers (although I've never called *myself* one).


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## gizmo2071 (Apr 24, 2007)

I'm not a photographer.
I'm THE photographer.


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## terri (Apr 24, 2007)

fmw said:


> I go with heathens. A photographer is one who makes images with a camera. There are many levels to this, of course, but the definition is pretty broad.


Right on. :thumbup: 

I'm not comfortable calling myself a "photographer" because I know I'm only at the "learning to learn" stage. So what if I have a few good images - even a three-legged dog can lope along, right?  I have too much respect for the medium to claim otherwise. That's the "level" I'm at.

I hope to be a _good_ photographer eventually - really good.


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## Tangerini (Apr 24, 2007)

terri said:


> Right on. :thumbup:
> 
> I'm not comfortable calling myself a "photographer" because I know I'm only at the "learning to learn" stage. So what if I have a few good images - even a three-legged dog can lope along, right?  I have too much respect for the medium to claim otherwise. That's the "level" I'm at.
> 
> I hope to be a _good_ photographer eventually - really good.



I feel the same way.  I think I'm in the pre-crawling stage LOL.


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## terri (Apr 24, 2007)

Tangerini said:


> I feel the same way. I think I'm in the pre-crawling stage LOL.


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## Alex_B (Apr 24, 2007)

Hertz van Rental said:


> What makes a photographer? Being able to ask for £3,000 for a days work with a straight face



I am able to do so!

But no one would actually give me the money 

Do I still qualify?


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## Alex_B (Apr 24, 2007)

darich said:


> I wouldn't call myself a photographer unless i was a pro or even earning a good proportion of my income from it.



but then you would be a pro photographer and not just plain "photographer" .. so you must be something now... and I would say you are an amateur since you are not a pro. but both fall under "photographer" 
...


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## Alex_B (Apr 24, 2007)

DSLR noob said:


> The other day I was looking through my Facebook at my friends and was amazed to see how many of my friends said that they were photographers on their pages.



I know people who call themselves musicians (yes they manage to produce some sound, but I would not consider it music  ), then I know people who call themselves webdesigners because they know a few html tags, and then I know some people who call themselves students even though they sleep all day .... 

It simply does not matter 

A photographer is someone who uses a camera to produce an image.... full stop. If the image looks horrible to you because he simply cannot do better, or if he presents nice images which came out by accident, or if he is creative and knows what he is doing ... that only makes a difference in how he is judged as a photographer, but not in the term itself.

A pro photographer is someone who earns a living with photography. It does not tell anything about the quality.


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## Christie Photo (Apr 24, 2007)

gmarquez said:


> I happen to think that anyone that takes pictures can call themselves a photographer.




oh...   and they do.  LOTS of 'em!


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## morydd (Apr 24, 2007)

Pointing a camera at somethign and triggering the shutter makes you a photographer. "Good Photographer", "Knowledgeable Photographer", "Professional Photographer"... those are all another story entirely.


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## table1349 (Apr 24, 2007)

For me it is realitivly simple.

*Photographer* = Anyone that is smart enough to take the lens cap off, find and press the shutter release and get an image on film or in a digital medium. (Quality does not necessarly count)

*Professional Photographer* =  See above and add "The ability to sell your photographs to someone."

*Accomplished Photographer* = That rare breed of individual that not only has the technical abilities to operate the equipment to it's fullest but has that sense of insight and composition and that inate ability to combine the two into not only a technically pleasing, but soul stiring image that grabs the viewer and touches them to their very being.  This is a rare and treasured breed.  

Wish I was even remotely close to the last one.


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## Christie Photo (Apr 24, 2007)

I do make a distinction between photographers and camera operators.


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## Hertz van Rental (Apr 24, 2007)

Alex_B said:


> I am able to do so!
> 
> But no one would actually give me the money
> 
> Do I still qualify?



How I was taught to quote for a job in the 80's was to 'think of a number, double it, add 10% then say the answer with a straight face'. I can only say that it unfailingly worked. They probably heard me laughing and whooping in the street after though.

....oh, wait. You said 'photographer'. I thought that was synonymous with 'bullsh*t merchant' but I could be wrong


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## astrostu (Apr 24, 2007)

I call myself a photographer because I take photographs.  Plain and simple.

I don't call myself a professional photographer because I'm not properly trained to do professional photography work.  I don't even call myself an advanced amateur photographer, but rather just more of an amateur photographer.  I do it as a hobby, I don't try to make money off of it (though it'd be nice), and I don't have formal training nor am I really recognized by any professional bodies.

I suppose this distinction is easy for me because the same applies for astronomy.  It's simple - there are professional astronomers and amateur astronomers.  Professionals hold a MS or PhD in astronomy, amateures don't.  I'm a graduate student in astronomy, so some may call me a professional because I get paid to do astronomy research, but I won't consider myself an astronomer until I have the doctorate.  Meanwhile, I know lots of professionals in other fields who know a heck of a lot more about the night sky than I do, but they are amateur astronomers because they don't have the physics background (they know astronomy, I know astrophysics).  And then there are the hobbyists who are just getting into it.

So that's how I come up with the same definitions for photography, and how I fit in.  Anyone can call themselves a photographer if they take photographs, but I would balk at calling anyone a "professional" photographer unless they have some serious credentials to back it up.  Despite the quality of their work (since I know professional astronomers with the doctorate who do very bad research).


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## JC1220 (Apr 24, 2007)

If you consider photography to be your most serious work concern in your life, you are a photographer. Owning a camera and using it does not necessarily make anyone a photographer any more than having an article published makes someone a writer. It is a function of the importance you place on it in your own life, something you emotionally do full-time, no matter how many hours you can actually put in.  Just because you own a piano...

It comes down to a state of mind, if you consider photography to be your work, with all that entails, whether or not you ever make a dime from it, you are a photographer. We all cook. Are we cooks? Most of us drive a car. Are we drivers? Yes, but only in the most meaningless sense of the words cooks and drivers. Those who call themselves cooks or chefs are those that do it full time. The same holds for photographers.

Amateurs can be photographers, of course. But usually they are just people who make photographs. 

No you cannot be something else and a photographer unless each have equal and all-consuming importance in your life. And it would be an extremely rare person who could do both full-time, while also working at a job, or even without the necessity of having a job. If you occasionally golf or occasionally photograph you are someone who golf&#8217;s and photographs. If, on the other hand, you think about golf or photography or one or the other every spare minute and some not spare minutes, if you keep up with the field, read the journals, read the books, keep tabs on exhibitions even if you are unable to go to them, know the history, care about the history, care about current trends, whether they find their way into your own work or not, and, of course, constantly make your own photographs and think about making them, then yes, you are probably a photographer. But if you do not devote that kind of time and psychic energy to it you are not a photographer.


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## neea (Apr 24, 2007)

astrostu said:


> ...nor am I really recognized by any professional bodies.



This reminds me of the 'Professional Photographers of Canada'.
Once upon a time I found quite a few photographers webpages bearing the Professional Photographers of Canada symbol.
I thought to myself "Wow. I would love to be recognized as a professional".
So I did some research.
To my huge disappointment I discovered it costs A WHOLE LOT OF MONEY to be considered a professional.
I then decided that I wanted no part of an organization that will call you a professional for such a hefty price.
IMO, something like this should require a pain staking application process where your pictures are analyzed and 'torn apart'. And then if 'they' still think you're good you might be considered.
To just hand over a few hundy and get that title... I don't agree.


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## Don Simon (Apr 24, 2007)

I agree that's not right... I'll refer to you in every post as "The well known Canadian professional" for $50 - sound more reasonable?


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## neea (Apr 24, 2007)

ZaphodB said:


> I agree that's not right... I'll refer to you in every post as "The well known Canadian professional" for $50 - sound more reasonable?



How's $45 sound and i'll do the same for you?
Sound like a deal?


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## astrostu (Apr 25, 2007)

I don't know how it is in photography, but I know in astronomy that it's just assumed that if you're a professional you will belong to certain organizations which do have high (at least they seem to me) membership fees.  Like right now I belong to the American Astonomical Society ($50/year for now, $100/yr when I get a doctorate), and then there's the IAU, AGU, and other acronyms that I "should" blong to as a professional.

While it's in no way a requirement, it's just kinda assumed that you'll join.


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## craig (Apr 25, 2007)

Yes your work has to "wow'" the masses. Experience is the key and something that can not be expressed on a forum.

Personally; claiming "photographer" is a serious deal. You have to produce amazing images on demand. If you can get someone to buy your cool sunset pic then more power to ya. I am hired because I have amazing light and a good eye. That is what makes me a photographer. Plus I am dear friends with all the art directors in town...

love & bass


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## benjikan (Apr 25, 2007)

When I did my first ever shoot I called myself a photographer.  It comes down to your perception of yourself.  You jump in to the role or gently stick your toe in the water and wait till your body adapts.

Go and listen to an interview about my diving in to photography and take from it what you wish..

http://www.eravedesigns.com/erave/podcasts/podcast1.xml


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## RMThompson (Apr 25, 2007)

I consider myself the following, because Ive done them professionally enough to make enough money at them I had to claim it on my taxes. 

Writer
Poet
Photography
Salesman
Lover

Ok the last one was a joke, but the others are serious. I also paint, but when people ask what I do, I response usually with Salesman/Photographer since those are what I do most prominently.

These are my requirements, I don't think there is anything wrong with a hobbyist calling himself a photographer. My wife isn't, she takes pictures to remember a certain moment, snapshots only.


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## RMThompson (Apr 25, 2007)

gmarquez said:


> I happen to think that anyone that takes pictures can call themselves a photographer.
> 
> That does not make them a professional photographer (one who does photography as a profession).
> 
> ...


 
I like this mentality. From one photographer to another.


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## DSLR noob (Apr 25, 2007)

benjikan said:


> When I did my first ever shoot I called myself a photographer.  It comes down to your perception of yourself.  You jump in to the role or gently stick your toe in the water and wait till your body adapts.
> 
> Go and listen to an interview about my diving in to photography and take from it what you wish..
> 
> http://www.eravedesigns.com/erave/podcasts/podcast1.xml


the link didn't work but I appreciate you response.


I was surprised ot read how many people didn't seem to care that people walk around flaunting the photographer title with no true exposure talent. I should probably just not let it bother me. thanks all of you,


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## THORHAMMER (Apr 25, 2007)

just like if you drive a car your a driver, but if you get paid to drive 
you are a pro driver.. 

you can shoot like a pro, you can be paid for a shoot, and you can just shoot for fun... 

thats the difference..


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## Eric Piercey (Apr 26, 2007)

I'm the next coming of christ. Hell, why not?


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## abraxas (Apr 26, 2007)

I am a photographer.  My business card says so. Although I make my living at it, I see myself more as a vocationalist than as a "professional." Someday I would like to be an author (I'm working on that one).

However, one of my heros, Jethro Bodine, was at different times; a Playboy, Movie Producer, Actor, and amongst other things, my favorite, a double-naught spy. 

Life is big. Do as you please.


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## RMThompson (Apr 26, 2007)

abraxas said:


> I am a photographer. My business card says so. Although I make my living at it, I see myself more as a vocationalist than as a "professional." Someday I would like to be an author (I'm working on that one).
> 
> However, one of my heros, Jethro Bodine, was at different times; a Playboy, Movie Producer, Actor, and amongst other things, my favorite, a double-naught spy.
> 
> Life is big. Do as you please.


 
A fellow writer? Glad to meetcha. I usually don't use the word author, as I picture myself on the back of a dustjacket then, which hasn't happened... but I have been published as a writer.

It's amazing, I've worked for years at writing and a year at photography... and I've made about equal money over all... my shoot on Sunday should put Photographer over the edge as the winner in that category.


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## carolineruth12 (Apr 26, 2007)

gryphonslair99 said:


> For me it is realitivly simple.
> 
> *Photographer* = Anyone that is smart enough to take the lens cap off, find and press the shutter release and get an image on film or in a digital medium. (Quality does not necessarly count)
> 
> ...



Wow. That last one? Pretty deep. :thumbup: 
I agree with your definition of "photographer". A lot of my friends have their cute little cameraphones or whatever and then they say they're photographers. Sure, they are, but it's not what they call themselves that matters; it's the quality and artistic value that makes a photo exceptional.


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## blatalllic (Apr 26, 2007)

I would say I consider my self some type of a photographer..I never say Im a pro...actually I always tell people that Im new to this world and Im learning things everyday....Like today I actually printed my first two prints...So excited....Cant wait to pic them up!!


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## panocho (Apr 26, 2007)

It is your photographies that qualify you as a photographer -and perhaps together with a certain habit of taking them.

Otherwise, you just take photos occasionally, or very often (as, say, a means to keep memories, sell things, etc), or even earn a living from them (and not necessarily you're a photographer, although it certainly is the normal thing to happen that you're one, but you might work as a professional photographer without actually being a photographer!), etc. But you're not simply a photographer just because you make photos. Am I a singer because I sing in the shower? Am I a cook because I cook my meals? No, I am a cook when when someone tries my cooking says... you ARE a cook!


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## abraxas (Apr 27, 2007)

RMThompson said:


> A fellow writer? Glad to meetcha. I usually don't use the word author, as I picture myself on the back of a dustjacket then, which hasn't happened... but I have been published as a writer.
> 
> It's amazing, I've worked for years at writing and a year at photography... and I've made about equal money over all... my shoot on Sunday should put Photographer over the edge as the winner in that category.



I had replaced 'writer' with 'author' when I thought about my time served as a tech writer back in the olden-days (before they invented cows to squirt milk into bottles- In fact, I wrote the original instructions on how to hold the cow properly).

I like telling campfire stories about renegade Indian serial killers in the late 1800s. Brutal, violent stuff. I like describing the circumstances that turned them into the monsters they became- makes the chicks cry and in the end scares the hell out of everyone. True stories embellished with B.S. Since I tend to ramble I've been writing.  Might make some money off it, but don't care.

Glad to meetya back.


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## Funky (Apr 27, 2007)

heres my oppinion. if you take pictures on a fairly regular basis your a photographer, now, that doesnt mean your good or your a professional.
i think we have to define photographer to get a better understanding

photographer: someone who takes photographs

hmmm well sounds strait forward, everyone here is infact a photographer on some level. but now you have to think about what types and kinds there are, theres 100's from the "im extreamly rich strike a pose baby" to the "smile grandpa". being a pro photographer is just a matter of being payed. sell a picture to a family memeber, congrats. but that doesnt make you pro, get in to a gallery and eat ramen for 3 months untill some nice man buys some prints then your on the verge of being a pro, as long as your making a living off what your doing your good enough to be labled a professional. oh and eating ramen is a big part of it. 15 cents a packet baby! woo

just my 2 cents on the subject :cheers:


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## Efergoh (Apr 28, 2007)

I think carrying the label of photographer has more to do with the ability to pre-visualize the photo before you take it, and produce the image you had in mind.

The MySpace sad girl in the bathroom mirror with a flash bloom to the right of her head is not a photographer...those are exhibitionists.


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## Ribber (Apr 28, 2007)

Efergoh said:


> The MySpace sad girl in the bathroom mirror with a flash bloom to the right of her head is not a photographer...those are exhibitionists.



!!

Back when I first got into digital, my girlfriend was very wary of even touching the new camera, so I called upon the assistance of the bathroom mirror one evening. I feel so dirty now...

In response to the OP, I feel that if you take pictures with any kind of enthusiasm and are willing to look beyond your immediate natural  surroundings (family, pets, computer keyboard) for subjects... that would make you a photographer. Not necessarily a good one, but one none the less. Like any art, for *others* to consider you "good" at it... practice practice practice. Of course, if your name is Christolio (no surname) you could probably make your fame on hype alone.


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## Sw1tchFX (May 5, 2007)

fmw said:


> I go with heathens.  A photographer is one who makes images with a camera.  There are many levels to this, of course, but the definition is pretty broad.



There is so much truth in that statement that my head exploded, and it's becuase of one word, that for me, changes everything.



fmw said:


> A photographer is one who *makes* images with a camera.


_Making_ is different than _taking_. Photographers make images becuase they know what they want and how to do it, if they don't they find out how and do it. everyone else takes them and lets them be.


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## LaFoto (May 5, 2007)

Well, I found this e-mail in my in-box this morning from a dance teacher who has asked me to take some photos in her dance classes in preparation to a big performance she is working on (yet another dance school):



> Oh Corinna!
> 
> What can I say? My "gut feeling" has not let me down ...* I knew* I had asked the right person ... !!!!! ;-)
> 
> ...


 
Well. What now?
Am I "a photographer" all of a sudden?
I got introduced to the dancers as "a photographer who will accompany us during rehearsals", but ... hm ... actually I still feel like I am just someone "who loves to take photos" :scratch: 

But after I have had a number of commissions of late, I feel some shift inside me, some gain of confidence, the funny feeling that maybe I CAN take even good photos? 

But am a "*a photographer*"?


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## gmarquez (May 5, 2007)

LaFoto said:


> But am a "*a photographer*"?




I know some will disagree with this, but there is a quote that reoccurs throughout the animated movie "Iron Giant".  This quote, along with the whole "Christ Figure" theme, is the main point of the movie:

"You are who you choose to be.  YOU choose."


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## lasershot (May 5, 2007)

I suppose one who takes pictures for a living is a photographer... Just guessing...


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## Ranger (May 5, 2007)

Thats a interesting thought. . .

I take photos all the time but I have never considered myself a photographer, I just tell people I like photography . . .


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## mysteryscribe (May 8, 2007)

Ya have to be careful what you try to define here. Photographer is one who takes pictures pure and simple. Ie He isn't much of a photographer. Since he isnt much of one, he is a photographer of sorts. So the act of taking pictures makes anyone a photographer.

After that you get to degress.. Novice... amatuer... advanced amature, simi pro... pro.... artist... famous....retired... dead... they are all just modifiers of photographer.


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## Hertz van Rental (May 8, 2007)

Well I have a bit of paper that says I'm a qualified photographer, so there...


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## Garbz (May 8, 2007)

So do I. My photographs on print


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## Funky (May 8, 2007)

...yeah, i have all my work in galleries but im not really a pro, if you fly around the world your good to go in my book


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## avcabob (May 8, 2007)

I was actually called a photographer by my friend today after showing him a picture I took the other day. But I still don't really think of myself as a real one. I guess that makes me a fake one?


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## mysteryscribe (May 9, 2007)

See qualified is your modifier Hertz lol

Let me see I still have two state licenses ... That means I am able to do business in two states as a photographer. So that means I am a pro in the eyes of two states. Not my old customers of course.

I have at least ten court certified instances that I was declared an expert in photography. I am hardly an expert in anything but I could answer the questions the court asked me that day. I couldn't now. 

I don't know that any of it does more than just modify the type photographer I was once.

But to be honest most people in the forum situation would say im not much of a photographer but even that is validation that I am some kind of photographer.


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## sabbath999 (May 9, 2007)

I take pictures. Some are good, some not so much.

Does that make me a "photographer"? Don't know, don't care. It's all about the image... not the PERSON who's taking the picture's image, but the pictures themselves.

I think folks are WAY too wrapped up in the social aspect of taking pictures.

The shots are either good, not good or somewhere in between. Place an image on a wall, step back and enjoy... and let others enjoy... the moment frozen forever in time.

Whether that image was taken by somebody society would call a "photographer" or not is absolutely, positively and entirely irrelevant.

IMHO


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## mysteryscribe (May 9, 2007)

Here here, it's all about the image but anyone can be a photographer that was my point. 

What kind you are doesn't much matter, you are still a photographer if you make pictures. 

The images always speak for themselves in the end.


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## Christie Photo (May 9, 2007)

mysteryscribe said:


> So the act of taking pictures makes anyone a photographer.




I have to say it one more time....

*Taking* pictures means one is operating a camera.  Some are better at this than others.

*Making* photographs means one is a photographer.  Some are better at this than others.


Pete


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## mysteryscribe (May 9, 2007)

I couldn't disagree more.... Sorry but a photographer is one who produces pictures..... There has to be a qualifier to make him more than that.

Ie good photographer... professional photographer.. in my case hack photographer.


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## mysteryscribe (May 9, 2007)

I imagine everyone can find a dictionary that agrees with their difinition I found one as well.



 


Photographers and their models




 


A photographer


A *photographer* is a person who takes a photograph using a camera. 

There are lots more and I quoted out of context of course but it goes along with my point of view so why not.


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## Mike_E (May 9, 2007)

I'm with Mysteryscribe!  Whoever or whatever I am is good enough!

mike


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## Christie Photo (May 9, 2007)

A scenario:  The local little league hires a photographer to make a team photo.  He/she poses the team, and while making the photograph, three parents walk up behind and each snaps a camera.  How many photographers are there?  How many of these people will claim to be a photographer?

While we have the dictionary out, let's look up "denotation" and "connotation."


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## Mike_E (May 9, 2007)

And what if one of those parents shoots for AP, one for Time and one for National Geographic?

I feel we should look more to past activity and future intent.  The thing is, you see, that if you start defining some people into a group then you are also defining other people out.  The tighter the definition the more are excluded.  Perhaps there are some here that require membership in some rarefied strata of society to assuage their egos and if so then I will remind them that although they might seem richer for it in the short term, they will be poorer for it in the long.

mike


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## Christie Photo (May 9, 2007)

Mike_E said:


> And what if one of those parents shoots for AP, one for Time and one for National Geographic?



....  and then, a plane landed, and Annie Leibowitz got out, but she was one of the player's aunt, and.....

Common... the answer is obvious.


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## Hertz van Rental (May 9, 2007)

mysteryscribe said:


> See qualified is your modifier Hertz lol



I did the British Institute of Professional Photographers Professional Qualifying Exam... and I've never ever found out who they were and what qualified them to qualify me :lmao: 

Personaly, I just take pictures - I leave the name calling to others. You can call yourself a photographer, artist, picure taker or a banana - you are what you are and you do what you do :mrgreen:


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## ksmattfish (May 9, 2007)

Christie Photo said:


> A scenario:  The local little league hires a photographer to make a team photo.  He/she poses the team, and while making the photograph, three parents walk up behind and each snaps a camera.  How many photographers are there?



Is the hired photographer doing something original, or just lining the kids up or otherwise posing them in ways everyone has seen a million times before?  If it's the same old same old then I see little difference between anyone in your scenario besides price of gear.

I'm in the camp that says if someone takes a photograph, even a lousy one, then they are a photographer.  It's really not a very impressive label.  The best photogs are doing it because they enjoy it, not for the fame and admiration it brings them.  

I have several pieces of paper that say I'm an official, real life, professional photographer:  IRS tax forms.


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## mysteryscribe (May 9, 2007)

Im going to come down with Hertz... 

Holy moly I wonder if my diseased heart can stand it. I have a wall full of crap but it doesn't make me a better photographer.  As one of the forum members once said, "Im am somewhere between poor and mediocre....."   So all the paper on my wall is good for bathroom use in case there really is a Jerico senario.

As for the little league team there was one PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHER, AND TWO AMATUER PHOTOGRAPHERS.  They were still all photographers.  The difference is in the qualifiers.  

So why the devil do we need to feed our egos by being the only photographers in the world.  Why can't we be satisfied with being a poor to mediocre photographer or a great photographer.   What is so great about the word photographer that we need to make it an exclusive club.

So maybe we should go with a photographer for all of them and THE PHOTOGRAPHER  for all of us. Na now that is way elitist.   

Someone tell spillchick her break is over.


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## dewey (May 9, 2007)

pho·tog·ra·pher  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








  /f&#601;&#712;t&#594;g
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




r&#601;
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




f&#601;r/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[f_uh_-*tog*-r_uh_-fer] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation 
noun  

a person who takes photographs, esp. one who practices photography professionally.

Real complex. :mrgreen:


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## Sw1tchFX (May 9, 2007)

Christie Photo said:


> ....  and then, a plane landed, and Annie Leibowitz got out, but she was one of the player's aunt, and.....
> 
> Common... the answer is obvious.


:lmao:


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## mysteryscribe (May 9, 2007)

Did anyone get annie's autograph???  My wife is going to want to know what she was wearing.


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## Mike_E (May 9, 2007)

No idea who made the dress, but she said that the shoes were Italian.  

mike


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## mysteryscribe (May 9, 2007)

And I bet they were sensible shoes at that.


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## abraxas (May 9, 2007)

Hertz van Rental said:


> I...
> 
> Personaly, I just take pictures - I leave the name calling to others. You can call yourself a photographer, artist, picure taker or a banana - you are what you are and you do what you do :mrgreen:



Back in the olden-days (before there was dirt, before they invented cows to squirt milk in them little bottles, etc..), we used to have this very same argument, 'cept it was over the word, "Professional."


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## Alex_B (May 9, 2007)

Hertz van Rental said:


> a banana



I do not like raw bananas.


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## mysteryscribe (May 9, 2007)

Is that a banana in your pocket ect...


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## Alex_B (May 9, 2007)

mysteryscribe said:


> Is that a banana in your pocket ect...



I think now we got this discussion where it belongs


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## mysteryscribe (May 9, 2007)

When there is a choice Always take the low road......


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## table1349 (May 9, 2007)

Christie Photo said:


> I have to say it one more time....
> 
> *Taking* pictures means one is operating a camera.  Some are better at this than others.
> 
> ...




If this is the case then would someone PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE show me the text book that Ansel Adams used to make the beautiful mountains, waterfalls, forests, valleys and other wonders of nature that he *TOOK* photographs of?  I would like to build a nice mountain here in Kansas with great scenery and a nice ski slope.  I would refer back to my origional assesment.

*Photographer* = Anyone that is smart enough to take the lens cap off, find and press the shutter release and get an image on film or in a digital medium. (Quality does not necessarly count)  (If you can not do this then the word IDIOT comes to mind)

*Professional Photographer* =  See above and add "The ability to sell your photographs to someone." (Obviously the idea of some one being a Professional Photographer does not necessarly impress me)

*Accomplished Photographer* = That rare breed of individual that not only has the technical abilities to operate the equipment to it's fullest but has that sense of insight and composition and that inate ability to combine the two into not only a technically pleasing, but soul stiring image that grabs the viewer and touches them to their very being. This is a rare and treasured breed.  (These are the people that impress, inspire and motovate me to try in some little way to improve my photography.  Thank you Ansel, Annie, Henri Cartier-Bresson, Mary Ellen Mark, Yousuf Karsh, Gordon Parks and all of you who inspire me.)


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## sabbath999 (May 9, 2007)

Upon further reflection, I have decided that everybody who uses a Nikon is a photographer, and everybody who doesn't, isn't...


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## Peanuts (May 9, 2007)

sabbath999 said:


> Upon further reflection, I have decided that everybody who uses a Nikon is a photographer, and everybody who doesn't, isn't...


 

Brilliant. I do believe we have come to the final, solid, and conclusive answer to this question.


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## mysteryscribe (May 9, 2007)

So now we are reduced to the nikon cult answers. Don't drink the cool aid guys


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## Mike_E (May 9, 2007)

mysteryscribe said:


> When there is a choice Always take the low road......



I do, it's closer to home.  LOLOL

But the cool-aid is so red!



mike


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## Hertz van Rental (May 10, 2007)

Alex_B said:


> I do not like raw bananas.



But they tell me that they like you. Maybe you just need to get to know them a bit better. Take one out for a beer. They can be quite amusing as they have a huge store of monkey jokes.


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## Peanuts (May 10, 2007)

I should probably mentioned before I am pummeled that I actually use Canon - so that is the most politically-incorrect statement I have made as of yet.  (If Nikon and Canon can possibly be political)

Hertz has met the  8700 post and I lived to see it.


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## danalec99 (May 10, 2007)

sabbath999 said:


> Upon further reflection, I have decided that everybody who uses a Nikon is a photographer, and everybody who doesn't, isn't...


I disagree.

REAL photographers shoot with this baby. :mrgreen:


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## Christie Photo (May 10, 2007)

gryphonslair99 said:


> If this is the case then would someone PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE show me the text book that Ansel Adams used to make the beautiful mountains, waterfalls, forests, valleys and other wonders of nature that he *TOOK* photographs of?



No need to build mountains.  Just follow Ansel's example.  Go to a mountain, select a location for the camera, choose the time of day...  time of year, settle on appropriate gear...  camera, lens, filters..., determine the combination of exposure time, film, chemistry, and technique...  and...

bring a Nikon.

Remember...  be kind to banannas.  They bruise easily.


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## mysteryscribe (May 10, 2007)

With Bananas and Photographers, its the ego that bruises first. Mine most of all.

Real photographers Drink strong black coffee, which they brewed themselves, laced with rum they paid for themselves, in a small, cold in the winter, hot in the summer dark room, while they wait for their film to soup.

Now there is an image to haunt you.


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## Rick Waldroup (May 10, 2007)

Sometimes people ask me what I do for a living. When I tell them I am a photographer they will usually say something like,"Wow, that must be cool or fun, etc..."

Then I think, well, if they only knew.

However, sometimes it feels as though I have not had a real job in over 30 years.


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## mysteryscribe (May 10, 2007)

In 1969 I carried the bags of a professional photographer who was seventy or eighty.... In those days I was his retirement plan... his Ira so to speak.


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## table1349 (May 10, 2007)

Christie Photo said:


> No need to build mountains.  Just follow Ansel's example.  Go to a mountain, select a location for the camera, choose the time of day...  time of year, settle on appropriate gear...  camera, lens, filters..., determine the combination of exposure time, film, chemistry, and technique...  and...
> 
> bring a Nikon.
> 
> Remember...  be kind to banannas.  They bruise easily.



Ansel a didn't use no stinking Nikon.  Ansel used 4X5 view camera.  A Nikon is a sissy camera. A 4X5 view camera, now that's a man's camera. :lmao::lmao::lmao:


Please forgive me oh great F2 God's. It was a joke.  Just a joke.:hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail:


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## table1349 (May 10, 2007)

mysteryscribe said:


> In 1969 I carried the bags of a professional photographer who was seventy or eighty.... In those days I was his retirement plan... his Ira so to speak.



I pulled out my 1969 Funk & Wagonels Dictionary and looked up the work Ira. 

Ira = A pack mule, one that hauls heavy loads for another in a great quest.


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## table1349 (May 10, 2007)

danalec99 said:


> I disagree.
> 
> REAL photographers shoot with this baby. :mrgreen:



Attached to this lens:


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## Hertz van Rental (May 11, 2007)

Christie Photo said:


> Remember...  be kind to banannas.  They bruise easily.



Never hug a banana - good advice :lmao:


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## Hertz van Rental (May 11, 2007)

mysteryscribe said:


> Real photographers Drink strong black coffee, which they brewed themselves, laced with rum they paid for themselves, in a small, cold in the winter, hot in the summer dark room, while they wait for their film to soup.



In my heyday real photographers slept in their car on location with the kit all set ready to go so they could catch the sunrise. And then decided it would look better at sunset.
They also went on three day benders - paid for by the client - and called it 'location hunting'. :mrgreen:


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## mysteryscribe (May 11, 2007)

Hertz, "In my heyday real photographers slept in their car on location with the kit all set ready to go so they could catch the sunrise. And then decided it would look better at sunset.
They also went on three day benders - paid for by the client - and called it 'location hunting'."


Charlie, "In my early days I once drove to the south carolina coast which is on the eastern coast of the country, to shoot a sunset.  Got there just in time to realize the sun didn't set in the east....   Got drunk on ice cold beer, and yes I slept in the car,  woke up just in time to shoot the sun rising out of the ocean.  

God was I ever that young and stupid.... obviously yes.  Well I have gotten older if not smarter.."


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## Jim Gratiot (May 11, 2007)

> Professional Photographer = See above and add "The ability to sell your photographs to someone." (Obviously the idea of some one being a Professional Photographer does not necessarly impress me)


 
My only problem with this definition is that this is the ability that most "professional photographers" -- even the really talented ones -- don't have! 

The rarest breed of all is the talented photographer who knows how to market their passion. (Thus the term "starving artist.")


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## Alex_B (May 11, 2007)

Interesting how this subtle banana thing survives in this otherwise so rough thread ... maybe there is more in them bananas than I thought ...



Hertz van Rental said:


> But they tell me that they like you. Maybe you just need to get to know them a bit better. Take one out for a beer. They can be quite amusing as they have a huge store of monkey jokes.



Actually, there is one banana right now in my apartment ... a friend gave it to me ... 

Did any of you realise that a banana has as many a's in it as it has consonants? That appears sort of suspicious to me ...


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## Alex_B (May 11, 2007)

I have to mention that I speak of bananas so much since because I cannot contribute much on the photography thing


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## mysteryscribe (May 11, 2007)

I have a lady friend who says, "A man is just a man but a banana is a thing of beauty."  

I don't really understand it and please don't explain it to me.  She has the most wicked smile when she says it.  If it turned out to be a health food thing, I would be so disappointed.


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## Alex_B (May 11, 2007)

Here are some photographers for you (people operating cameras)


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## table1349 (May 11, 2007)

Alex_B said:


> Here are some photographers for you (people operating cameras)



I think the one second from the right has a bannana in her bag.


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## DSLR noob (May 12, 2007)

Wow. I have created a monster. this banana thread will eat your soul and consume your life on the forum. only to cause billions of posts and overload the server upon which I will be powerful enough to take over THE WORLD!


Sorry, I'm a bit tired.


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## Hertz van Rental (May 12, 2007)

DSLR noob said:


> Wow. I have created a monster. this banana thread will eat your soul and consume your life on the forum. only to cause billions of posts and overload the server upon which I will be powerful enough to take over THE WORLD!



Let's clear a few things up here.
1) There are no monster bananas - they do come in various sizes and some are bent but they are all quite friendly.
2) Banananas are vegetarian so only eat people when they are bored and there is nothing on TV.
3) Bananananas have NO current plans for World domination (they gave that idea up years ago).
4) As an atheist I do not have a soul. Banananananas haven't made up their minds yet - but their theologians have positted the idea of the Great Tree.

Women find bananananananas amusing because of the games they can play with them (tease the banananananana, hide the bananananananana, hit the bananananananananana with a stick, etc). And being very orderly women like to count the number of strips they get when they peel a banananananananana  and classify the fruit accordingly - one skin... two skin.... three skin... etc.


Sorry about the bananananananananananananananana thing. When typing the word my fingers go into spasm and I find I can't stop :blushing:


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## mysteryscribe (May 12, 2007)

No bananas were permenantly injured in the making of this thread, though there are three still missing.


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## Alex_B (May 12, 2007)

mysteryscribe said:


> though there are three still missing.



They must be hiding an planning something ....


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## mysteryscribe (May 12, 2007)

It's that banana republic thing again.


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## Hertz van Rental (May 12, 2007)

mysteryscribe said:


> It's that banana republic thing again.



I thought bananas were all Democrats...


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## mysteryscribe (May 12, 2007)

Liberal yellow bastards


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## Alex_B (May 12, 2007)

:stun: just ate that banana which a friend gave to me because she left the country yesterday .....

have to drown this traumatic experience in alcohol now I suppose!


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## mysteryscribe (May 12, 2007)

Were you sure you wanted to eat food someone gave you then skipped the country after.  I would be worried about her ties to the mob.


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## Alex_B (May 12, 2007)

I feel sick .. damn that girl ...


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## mysteryscribe (May 12, 2007)

Again let me try to find the common ground..

*Can we agree on who is not a photographer.*

a person who has never owned, borrowed, rented, or stolen a camera of any kind whatsoever is not a photographer.  Can we agree on that.

So who else can we agree on as not being a photographer.


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## Alex_B (May 12, 2007)

mysteryscribe said:


> So who else can we agree on as not being a photographer.



The common banana!



But it might still be a pornographer.


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## mysteryscribe (May 12, 2007)

but can the uncommon banana be a photographer .. probably not him either.


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## Hertz van Rental (May 12, 2007)

mysteryscribe said:


> *Can we agree on who is not a photographer.*


 
A person who has never owned, borrowed, rented, or stolen a banana is NOT a photographer*.


*Coveting your neighbours banana qualifies you as an amateur.


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## mysteryscribe (May 12, 2007)

roflmfao


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## mysteryscribe (May 12, 2007)

No one under the age of three years can be a photographer..... after that it gets dicey


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## Hertz van Rental (May 12, 2007)

mysteryscribe said:


> roflmfao



I'm not seeing enough banana in there...


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## mysteryscribe (May 12, 2007)

would a banana flavored ding dong work


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## Alex_B (May 12, 2007)

Hertz van Rental said:


> I'm not seeing enough banana in there...



What undead monster did I create by telling the world that I do not like bananas ... I have the feeling I lost control!


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## Alex_B (May 12, 2007)

I had been the author of unalterable evils, and I lived in daily fear lest the banana whom I had created should perpetrate some new wickedness. [Mary Shelley, _Bananastein_]


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## Hertz van Rental (May 12, 2007)

Alex_B said:


> I have the feeling I lost control!



You believe that you had control in the first place?  :smileys:


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## mysteryscribe (May 12, 2007)

new variety of banana the freddie kruger banana


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## table1349 (May 12, 2007)

Even the Banana prefers Canon.:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:


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## Hertz van Rental (May 12, 2007)

gryphonslair99 said:


> Even the Banana prefers Canon.:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:



My banana looks nothing like that.


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## DSLR noob (May 12, 2007)

Hertz van Rental said:


> My banana looks nothing like that.


 Then your banana just isn't the bees knees. Hear what i'm sayin diggidy yo?


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## Hertz van Rental (May 13, 2007)

DSLR noob said:


> Then your banana just isn't the bees knees. Hear what i'm sayin diggidy yo?



Bees knees are tiny and weak* - my banana is big and strong.



*This explains why the Canon banana has a bigger than average camera. He's trying to over-compensate - a trait he shares with at least one Canon user it would seem :lmao:


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## Alex_B (May 13, 2007)

what is so interesting about Hertz van Banana's banana? 

Hmm, I start to wonder what the "B" in my name really means ...


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## mysteryscribe (May 13, 2007)

Ah but a banana is just a banana in the end, but you take the humble honeydew now that is truly useful fruit.


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## Hertz van Rental (May 13, 2007)

Alex_B said:


> Hmm, I start to wonder what the "B" in my name really means ...



I suspect it stands for Bernard, but I could be wrong.


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## Hertz van Rental (May 13, 2007)

mysteryscribe said:


> take the humble honeydew now that is truly useful fruit.


Weren't you arrested for using a melon illegaly?


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## mysteryscribe (May 13, 2007)

Yes but those charges were dropped... Someone had the evidence for breakfast.


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## Hertz van Rental (May 13, 2007)

mysteryscribe said:


> Someone had the evidence for breakfast.



I'm getting an image here that is going to take some time to get rid of. :er:


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## mysteryscribe (May 13, 2007)

Good lol .....  The question really is could the culprit cook....


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## table1349 (May 13, 2007)

mysteryscribe said:


> Ah but a banana is just a banana in the end, but you take the humble honeydew now that is truly useful fruit.



Humble Honeydew????? *HUMBLE HONEYDEW??????  *You have never seen *my* honeydew.  I've had the same honeydew for 27 years now.  Humble.... are you freaking kidding me.  It's always honeydew this or honeydew that.  I even have a honeydew jar.  I dread sunny warm days when she is not out of town because I get my fill of honeydew.  :lmao::lmao::greenpbl:


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## table1349 (May 13, 2007)

Hertz van Rental said:


> I'm getting an image here that is going to take some time to get rid of. :er:



Does this help???:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:


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## Antarctican (May 13, 2007)

That is SCARY!!!!!!!!!!


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## John_05 (May 13, 2007)

i had a reply ready for this thread a couple days ago, but had to go before i could post it.

then today i read the most recent replies and i just happen to have a banana on my desk.

now because ive laughed so hard,  i cant remember what it is i wanted to say.


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## Hertz van Rental (May 14, 2007)

John_05 said:


> i cant remember what it is i wanted to say.



"I've got a banana and I'm not afraid to use it"?


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## mysteryscribe (May 14, 2007)

The cop spoke with disdain in his voice, "We have reduced the charges against you Mr. Hertz to assault with a dead banana."


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## John_05 (May 14, 2007)

Hertz van Rental said:


> "I've got a banana and I'm not afraid to use it"?


 
:lmao: 

it could have been.  i really dont remember.

it also could have been something related to other slang terms ive heard,  and some humorous (and possibly offensive) ways to use them in a sentence that only looked offensive to those that either didnt understand what they meant,  or fully understood.....

im not quite 40 yet.  i shouldnt be this senile.  maybe i should stop fighting it and start listening to the banana again like i always did when i was younger. who knows, it might help me take more interesting pictures.


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## sabbath999 (May 14, 2007)

All of this makes me wonder... does listening to Bananarama make you a photographer, or just stupid and/or tone deaf?


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## RMThompson (May 14, 2007)

Wow.

That's all I can say.

and...


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## Chris of Arabia (May 14, 2007)

I don't think those bananas are following the rule of thirds, however they may well be artistic enough to qualify you as a photographer...


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## Hertz van Rental (May 14, 2007)

sabbath999 said:


> does listening to Bananarama make you a photographer, or just stupid and/or tone deaf?



It merely shows that you have no appreciation of music.
Trust me, I know. I met the girls once at a studio...


Trivia: Did you know that bananas give off a gas that makes other fruit go bad?


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## John_05 (May 14, 2007)

Hertz van Rental said:


> It merely shows that you have no appreciation of music.
> Trust me, I know. I met the girls once at a studio...
> 
> 
> Trivia: Did you know that bananas give off a gas that makes other fruit go bad?


 
that means i might be at least part banana.  ive been known to give off a gas thats made other things go bad too.......


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## Hertz van Rental (May 14, 2007)

John_05 said:


> i might be at least part banana.



We are all part banana. :mrgreen:


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## mysteryscribe (May 14, 2007)

But some are banana heads....not me or you though..... lol


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## John_05 (May 15, 2007)

Hertz van Rental said:


> We are all part banana. :mrgreen:


 
and partly nuts too.  

now ill never sleep.  ill be up all night wondering if im a sundae,  and if i should invest in a better air conditioner so i dont melt if i am.


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## Hertz van Rental (May 15, 2007)

John_05 said:


> and partly nuts too.



A banana with nuts? Is there any other kind?


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## Chris of Arabia (May 15, 2007)

...there's an image forming here... ...hang on, it's coming, it's coming! No, it's gone again, the moment must have passed...


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## skieur (May 15, 2007)

Years of experience, a certain level of expertise, the eye, the perfectionist mentality and the drive to keep improving your work.

skieur


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## DSLR noob (May 15, 2007)

yay another actual response. this thread actually helped me out on the main question a bit.


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## table1349 (May 15, 2007)

Hertz van Rental said:


> A banana with nuts? Is there any other kind?










Help me................I can't stop!!!!!!!!!


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## DSLR noob (May 15, 2007)

That's much less sexual than what I was thinking.


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## John_05 (May 16, 2007)

Hertz van Rental said:


> A banana with nuts? Is there any other kind?


 

im not sure.  i dont know if i really want to know either.  im naturally very curious,  but something tells me i really dont want to know anything about any other kind of banana other than the one ive lived with my whole life.


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