# First Photo Job! Senior Pictures



## iKokomo (Jun 18, 2011)

I have been asked by a friend to to her Senior pictures. We are planning on doing it on a beach near Lake Michigan (which has a lot of sand dunes and forests as well) and are planning on taking some even underwater (I have an underwater pocket camera). My main camera is a Nikon D90. (lens are 28-300, 18-105, and if i can borrow it 50mm 1.8) She is planning on bringing at least three changes of outfits. So my question(s) are (being my first time and all) 

I have taken college classes (which I am studying to be a Media Minor) about photography, so I know the basics of ISO, Aperture, Shutter Speed, ND Filters, angles and know how to use Photoshop CS5 fairly well, so feel free to give me more advanced advice! 

1. What poses should I do (on the beach, forest, sand dunes, underwater)?
2. What (and how) do I get her to do unposed pictures (so it looks less fake, or posed) or should I not do it at all?
3. How should I charge her for them? (per pic, per hour?) Should I send the pictures she wants via email, and how to embed a watermark?
4. What lens should I bring(lens I have are in the description above)?
5. Should I bring my SB-800 flash?
6. What should she do to prepare? (makeup, hair, (she wants some with hair up and hair done) eye shadow, etc) ?
7. What are some good Senior photography blogs/websites (not just ordinary one, good ones) that I should look at to get some ideas?
8. Should I do more than just photos, should I do a video as well, and if yes, how should I go about doing the video (or should the video just be for my portfolio)?
9. Is there anything else that I should know, that I might not have asked above?
10. This is my first time with pictures, Im nervous  haha

Thanks a ton for all your help. I hope to be able to use this to get me into the world of more professional photography!


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## tyler_h (Jun 18, 2011)

Can only comment on some; I'm not real good at portraits. Only just lined up a third shoot with a friend to try and learn through doing.

2. You can try for un-posed. My friend was a dancer so comfortable to have a bit of fun. I'd say leave it to the end so she is more relaxed.
3. I'd think per time; including PP. I'm not a believer in watermarking them; and I'd suggest CD for delivery.
4. Definitely borrow the 50; likely your main as 75 on crop. If the 18-105 is decent wide open at the long end I'd say use it as well.
5. Fill flash... look at reflectors too I guess.
6. Make up and hair should be done; an odd one I found. My friend used bronzer and it made PP hard as it would come out really orange.
8. Video sounds odd to me; what is your purpose for the video? what audio...
10. The more nervous you are the more nervous you'll make her. Relax!

Good luck. I'm sure you'll get some more better advise from people here with more experience.


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## Kerbouchard (Jun 18, 2011)

Start here...  The Rules Of Good Portraiture


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## mrpink (Jun 18, 2011)

iKokomo said:


> 5. Should I bring my SB-800 flash?



No.  Why on earth would you want to bring your photography equipment to a photo shoot?

#10 should answer #3.







p!nK


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## The_Traveler (Jun 18, 2011)

Do this for fun.
If you don't know enough to answer 1-9, you don't know enough to charge.


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## iKokomo (Jun 18, 2011)

The reason for video is for promo, I see Photographers advertising on YouTube with videos! And thanks for your help so far! Oh. I do start with 1, not 2


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## gsgary (Jun 19, 2011)

iKokomo said:


> The reason for video is for promo, I see Photographers advertising on YouTube with videos! And thanks for your help so far! Oh. I do start with 1, not 2



If you can't answer any of these questions you are not ready for promo


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## Kbarredo (Jun 19, 2011)

Here is another question are you going to be doing any in water shots. If so ask her to bring a bathing suit.


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## iKokomo (Jun 19, 2011)

She already know that she should. Cause we are also good friends so me, her and a good fried of hers will go swimming afterwards so it's not just a photo shoot


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## tibrunner (Jun 19, 2011)

For Watermarks I use the Digimarc add-on for PS

Once you have it in the filter add-on folder in your Photoshop directory 

open PS 
   - Open Image>>Filter>>Digimarc>>Embed watermark


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## iKokomo (Jun 22, 2011)

Thanks for all your help!! It will be in August sometime, but I will be Preparing now for it


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## KmH (Jun 22, 2011)

You might want to get the Master Guide for Photographing High School Seniors


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## Oilersrock (Jun 22, 2011)

KmH said:


> You might want to get the Master Guide for Photographing High School Seniors




Bahahaha!  I was so confused about this thread until I read this.   I thought he meant 60+ senior - not high school senior.  I'm Canadian, and we don't use those terms, so I was surprised when the OP said the 'senior' was going to be bringing 3 changes of clothes, and was going to take underwater shots.  I was kind of wondering what this senior was going to use the photos for


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## PhotoTish (Jun 22, 2011)

Yep, me too!  I thought "seniors" were elderly folk until I visited this forum.


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## Derrel (Jun 22, 2011)

Do a bit of research about VERTICAL and horizontal composition choices. Do NOT shoot a boatload of horizontals where her forehead is chopped off,and her chin is 4mm from the bottom of the frame, and she occupies 25% of the frame, and the remaining 75% of the frame is empty,dead space.

The single, biggest mistake I see beginners making is to shoot "portraits" in horizontal mode, with loads of dead space, and a very small bit of person in the middle of the frame. Nothing screams "untrained!",  "no art background!", "newbie!", "no clue!" louder than horizontalitis.


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## gsgary (Jun 22, 2011)

PhotoTish said:


> Yep, me too!  I thought "seniors" were elderly folk until I visited this forum.



They are where we live, maybe he meant 3 set of incontinence pants


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## SoonerBJJ (Jun 22, 2011)

Gotta love "how do I take photographs" and "how do I watermark my work" in the same post.  Maybe I'm old fashioned but I would worry about learning how to make images good enough to steal before I put too much effort into a watermark.  Nah...


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## Robin Usagani (Jun 22, 2011)

Derrel said:


> Do a bit of research about VERTICAL and horizontal composition choices. Do NOT shoot a boatload of horizontals where her forehead is chopped off,and her chin is 4mm from the bottom of the frame, and she occupies 25% of the frame, and the remaining 75% of the frame is empty,dead space.
> 
> *The single, biggest mistake I see beginners making is to shoot "portraits" in horizontal mode, with loads of dead space, and a very small bit of person in the middle of the frame.* Nothing screams "untrained!", "no art background!", "newbie!", "no clue!" louder than horizontalitis.



Something like this Derrel?


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## eliz250r (Jun 22, 2011)

I know you are nervous but just relax, everything will be fine! However, I wouldnt charge for this session. If you do it at no charge your client/friend will understand you are practicing & there isnt that great expectation feeling of every image being spot on. Not to mention you can relax more. You would hate for the pictures to not be everything they ever wanted & you charged them. You do not want any potential/future clients not wanting to work w/ you based on what you did when you were learning. (Thats how I feel any way)

Im a noob just like you & havent charged a cent yet. I just feel Im not at my maximum potential & I still have a lot to learn (especially doing this on my own). Like you I have tons of questions!! Not to mention I need to build my portfolio, then I need images good enough to use in my portfolioLOL. However, I am an assistant to a photographer & that has helped me tremendously! See if you cant hook up w/ a photographer or two & go out with them. If you are able to do this dont expect them to stop & explain everything as they are doing it. Just assist them in any way you can, from lugging extra equipment around to holding the reflector. You learn so much by watching & listening then ask questions after. You will be amazed what you will pick up on after a few hour session!

Good luck to you!! 
;-)​


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## KmH (Jun 22, 2011)

I fixed that for you:


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## Derrel (Jun 22, 2011)

Schwettylens said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> > Do a bit of research about VERTICAL and horizontal composition choices. Do NOT shoot a boatload of horizontals where her forehead is chopped off,and her chin is 4mm from the bottom of the frame, and she occupies 25% of the frame, and the remaining 75% of the frame is empty,dead space.
> ...



I was thinking of avoiding "portraits" more like these:

p297772704-4.jpg

and

p119967730-4.jpg


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## Gaerek (Jun 22, 2011)

Derrel said:


> Schwettylens said:
> 
> 
> > Derrel said:
> ...



Yeah, there's a big difference between:

"I'm making an artistic statement by shooting a vertical subject, horizontally."

and

"I didn't know I could turn my camera 90 degrees and still take a photo!"


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## KmH (Jun 22, 2011)

Gaerek said:


> "I'm making an artistic statement by shooting a vertical subject, horizontally."


Lots of artists invoke "artistic statement" but then can't explain what statement they were wanting to make, beyond "I liked it better that way".


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## Gaerek (Jun 22, 2011)

KmH said:


> Gaerek said:
> 
> 
> > "I'm making an artistic statement by shooting a vertical subject, horizontally."
> ...



True...see that all the time here. At least it works with Schwetty's shot...not the one's Derrel linked...


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## Derrel (Jun 22, 2011)

Gaerek said:


> KmH said:
> 
> 
> > Gaerek said:
> ...



Uh, Gaerek, the two shots I linked are examples to avoid...and they were shot by Schwetty...and posted here recently...I linked to them as examples of what NOT to come back with...


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## Robin Usagani (Jun 22, 2011)

But the thing is derrel you have to think about the finish product. A lot of my pics will go on a flush mount album where these pics will be on a spread. Vertical photos typically won't make a good spread.


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## Robin Usagani (Jun 22, 2011)

Here is one


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## Kbarredo (Jun 23, 2011)

I never knew horizontal portraits meant newbie. When was this rule invented. I knew vertical was mostly used to avoid dead space but can't you just crop it out.


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## The_Traveler (Jun 23, 2011)

Kbarredo said:


> I never knew horizontal portraits meant newbie. When was this rule invented. I knew vertical was mostly used to avoid dead space but can't you just crop it out.



Answers: 
1) Well, now you do
2) January 12, 2001 at 3:15 ET (and it wasn't invented, it was a law passed by overwhelming secret ballot of the world's good photographers)
3) Cropping off pixels leads to many pixels lying on the floor causing people slip (and to poorer quality in final images.)


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## iKokomo (Jun 23, 2011)

What if I want her laying on the beach, showing the whole body? Would that be acceptable for horizontal?


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## Oilersrock (Jun 23, 2011)

iKokomo said:


> What if I want her laying on the beach, showing the whole body? Would that be acceptable for horizontal?



IMO - If you want to show the whole body, show the whole body.  If not, then don't.  However, one thing you (and me) should remember is that for wedding photography, the subject should probably fill the whole frame.  Also, remember, you're taking these shots for the client - not for the users of this forum.  Talk to them and see what kind of photos they like.  If they are the anti-Derrel and absolutely love horizontals and hate verticals, then go ahead and shoot horizontals.  If they don't know what they like, get a good mix of both.  It's all about the client.


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## iKokomo (Jun 23, 2011)

Oilersrock said:
			
		

> IMO - If you want to show the whole body, show the whole body.  If not, then don't.  However, one thing you (and me) should remember is that for wedding photography, the subject should probably fill the whole frame.  Also, remember, you're taking these shots for the client - not for the users of this forum.  Talk to them and see what kind of photos they like.  If they are the anti-Derrel and absolutely love horizontals and hate verticals, then go ahead and shoot horizontals.  If they don't know what they like, get a good mix of both.  It's all about the client.



Thank you very much! It's all up to her not me or anyone else  Thanks!


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## The_Traveler (Jun 23, 2011)

iKokomo said:


> What if I want her laying on the beach, showing the whole body? Would that be acceptable for horizontal?



She should be lying on the beach; 'laying' would not be suitable for a wedding album unless they are very broadminded folks. :lmao:


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## Bitter Jeweler (Jun 23, 2011)

Oilersrock said:


> iKokomo said:
> 
> 
> > What if I want her laying on the beach, showing the whole body? Would that be acceptable for horizontal?
> ...


 Shooting horizontal or vertical is dictated mostly by the pose.


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## Derrel (Jun 23, 2011)

Schwettylens said:


> But the thing is derrel you have to think about the finish product. A lot of my pics will go on a flush mount album where these pics will be on a spread. Vertical photos typically won't make a good spread.



Always excuses...maybe it is time for you, and the OP, to buy some books on posing people...books written by TRAINED professionals who understand principles of posing (foot and body positioning, weight balance, body angles to the camera, masculine and feminine head tilts, how to position hands, arms, and fingers, etc,etc.). There is a well-established visual language that has been cultivated over centuries. As bitter jeweler stated elsewhere in this thread, the decision to orient the camera vertically or horizontally is determined by the ***pose*** of the person...not by a pre-conceived desire to slap an image in to a "layout"...

The difference between a top-level professional wedding photographer and a self-taught shooter is that the top-level shooter understands that each pose demands the proper orientation of the camera. Wrapping your head around this concept in the kind of thing that will differentiate you from all the MWAC and GWC wedding shooters. I hate to be so blunt, but your excuses are just that. When you butcher a POSE of one, or two people, to get an image that will "drop into a layout", you ain't doing it right...


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## Bitter Jeweler (Jun 23, 2011)

Schwetty, to apply what Derrel is saying, you need to have an idea of how many landscape aspect images you need for your album, and pose and shoot for your needs.
Doesn't it make sense to have a plan for your final product, rather than forcing things to work with "what you got" later?


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## Paulwil (Jun 23, 2011)

Look around at some other photographs and see what inspires you.  Do not try to copy them but use them as insperation and allow your style to come out.  Just be comfortable with what you are doing and even if you do not feel it still show confidence.  That way your model will feel at ease, and you will get more natural looking poses.  Take all of your gear with you, nothing worse then going man this would turn out really cool if i had my.  As far as charging goes, since she is your first senior session.  I would let her see your finished work and say.  Since you are my first senior and I am learning off you what do you feel these photographs are worth to you.  You know she will keep the payment in range she can afford, but you will also know just how much she likes them by what she is willing to pay you for them.  That is what I did when I first started doing photographs for others.  I knew I was still learning and would make mistakes.  That was a way for both sides to be happy.  Once you reach a level when you know your photography is as good as other pros out there.  You make sure to charge what you feel your photographs are worth.  Remember to have fun with it!!


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## Patrice (Jun 23, 2011)

This young friend of the op does not waste any time, from senior (graduation) photos to wedding in a mere 35 posts!


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## Robin Usagani (Jun 23, 2011)

Well..I just look at the frame and I see what looks good what doesnt.  If I see horizontal looks good, I do it.  My culled photos will have vast amount to choose from between horizontal and vertical.  I dont know why derrel has so much problem with horizontal.  I have seen many amazing photos taken horizontally with 85% of it negative space and it looks absolutely stunning.  You would take this vertical too?  Actually I did that.. but I like the horizontal better and it would be a shame if I didnt have the horizontal choice.


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## Derrel (Jun 23, 2011)

I do not have a "problem with horizontal".. I have a problem with $hi++y compositional skills, or NO SKILL.

Get a clue,man. Me, The Traveler, Bitter Jeweler, and others probably have a combined 100 years of experience in photography. Bitter, and myself, have studied art, composition, drawing, the arts...get a CLUE Schwetty...your photo above shows a "scene". We have a beautiful tree in bloom, a woodpile, a log fence and some cars behind, and a pretty young woman. The season of the year is spring...this horizontal composition actually "works" because there is a "reason for", a "justification for" the camera to be horizontal. Your disparaging comments about my "problem with horizontal" tells me,and the rest of us with experience, that you just--do--not--understand--the-visual--arts.

MY GOD man, can you not get it through your head that I am trying to help you get better? And that you, and others in this thread, are acting like the untrained, unstudied,self-taught shooters that you are?

Your statement, "I dont know why derrel has so much problem with horizontal. I have seen many amazing photos taken horizontally with 85% of it negative space and it looks absolutely stunning."

Man, what a clueless proclamation. You JUST DO NOT UNDERSTAND the visual arts if you think that a photo consisting of 85% of what you call negative space looks, to use your words, "absolutely stunning"--except under exceptional circumstances. TAKE AN ART CLASS MAN. LEARN FROM THE MASTERS, not from snap-snap-snapping. Get a clue. Improve your game. Your work looks like that of countless other GWC's and MWAC's because you're breaking all sorts of accepted compositional rules and guidelines, and making excuses because you're un-educated in the visual arts. You bought a camera and some lenses and hung out a shingle. I would never hire you to shoot a wedding for me, or my family. Why? Because you do not yet understand how poses are related to the framing, and you are repeatedly contradicting three vastly more-experience, older, more-accomplished shooters and artists, each of us who takes their art "seriously". You make excuses, but have no training to back up your facile ideas and understanding of composition and framing.

So, you bought a camera and some lenses. Now, get some artistic education to go with them...or remain forever in the MWAC-GWC camp.


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## ghache (Jun 23, 2011)

Derrel said:


> I do not have a "problem with horizontal".. I have a problem with $hi++y compositional skills, or NO SKILL.
> 
> Get a clue,man. Me, The Traveler, Bitter Jeweler, and others probably have a combined 100 years of experience in photography. Bitter, and myself, have studied art, composition, drawing, the arts...get a CLUE Schwetty...your photo above shows a "scene". We have a beautiful tree in bloom, a woodpile, a log fence and some cars behind, and a pretty young woman. The season of the year is spring...this horizontal composition actually "works" because there is a "reason for", a "justification for" the camera to be horizontal. Your disparaging comments about my "problem with horizontal" tells me,and the rest of us with experience, that you just--do--not--understand--the-visual--arts.
> 
> ...



your so good Derrel, i want you to be the father of my childs.

I am sorry but from what ive seen from your webpage and Schwettylens website, you should start putting all that visual ART in your pictures because your clearly suck. i think you spent too much time in those major art school and your basement. you are pathetic.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Jun 23, 2011)

Schwettylens said:


>


Schetty, I think that is a nice image, but it does have issues for me. I find myself mor interested in whats going on on the left of the image. I think part of the reason is that she sorta blends into the flowers too much. Something I do with images is squint at them to help decide how well they work. This helps me "blur" the image into identifiable shapes, and reduces getting lost in the details, so I can get a rough idea of the compostition. when I squint at this, she gets lost into the blossoms. While I can seperate her from the background looking at it normally, I feel the tree behind her is competing, and coming forward into the plane of focus. 

Schwetty, keep in mind, I don't shoot portraiture much. I do think it is difficult to do really well. But I do think, what I know from my background, I can speak to it. I wish I had more opportunity to work on it myself.


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## lyonsroar (Jun 23, 2011)

I passed "Art History: Prehistoric - Gothic Eras" last semester.  Am I qualified to shoot in both landscape _and_ portrait orientation yet?


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## tibrunner (Jun 23, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> Schwettylens said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...



I do like this photo, and I am pretty sure she did as well. 

Also, I agree with Bitter, she blends in way too much with the tree. Secondly, she seems overly pasty (though that could be my screen), and as for the trucks in the background...I am sorry but they do not help this photo at all. Almost seems as if the location was set up on the fly, and that you either didn't notice them or were just hoping no one else would. Tell Jethro to move the trucks, then and try again.


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## Derrel (Jun 23, 2011)

ghache said:
			
		

> I am sorry but from what ive seen from your webpage and Schwettylens website, you should start putting all that visual ART in your pictures because your clearly suck. i think you spent too much time in those major art school and your basement. you are pathetic.



Thanks,gash. I hope you get the last bit of sand out of your vag soon. 

There's still a bed for you at the mental ward gash, whenever you want to come back!!! Toodles! **Cheek Pinch!** We all love yer' stuff, girl!!


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## Robin Usagani (Jun 23, 2011)

Ok people..  Me and derrel butt heads all the time.   Nothing to be alarmed about .   Derrel, unfortunately I have a full time job and father of triplets.  Adding classes to my schedule is out of the question.  But judging from the reactions from my clients and the number inquiries I get, I am pretty sure I have stepped up my game.  I just watch other people's work and I take what I like.  It is not an excuse but that's how I learn all of my photography knowledge by looking at other people's work.  I take what I like.


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## camz (Jun 23, 2011)

Schwettylens said:


> I take what I like.



Schwetty, do you take their women too?


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## Robin Usagani (Jun 23, 2011)

Only if they look like erose or misscream


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## iKokomo (Jun 23, 2011)

Wow! I really am beginning to learn the people on this forum


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## MissCream (Jun 23, 2011)

Schwettylens said:


> Only if they look like erose or misscream



I thought you liked me for my personalities!


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## ghache (Jun 23, 2011)

Derrel said:


> ghache said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



your so amazing derrel. we still wanna see that amazing work of yours, If you preach, you better show what you preach. You and some other preacher here needs to get out of this website a little bit and some people on her should start to stop taking all your "advices" too seriously because the only thing you do is say the same **** over and over.

You are like the douche at the local baseball field who thinks he's barry bond but never made the majors.


okbyethx


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## Kbarredo (Jun 24, 2011)

MissCream said:


> Schwettylens said:
> 
> 
> > Only if they look like erose or misscream
> ...


 He does love your personalities, the left and the right one.


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## Kbarredo (Jun 24, 2011)

iKokomo said:


> Wow! I really am beginning to learn the people on this forum


 I wonder how they're gonna blame this one on me.


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## ghache (Jun 24, 2011)

Kbarredo said:


> MissCream said:
> 
> 
> > Schwettylens said:
> ...



hahah women from the maritimes have GREAT personalities. I am married to one


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## The_Traveler (Jun 24, 2011)

Oilersrock said:


> Talk to them and see what kind of photos they like.  If they are the anti-Derrel and absolutely love horizontals and hate verticals, then go ahead and shoot horizontals.  If they don't know what they like, get a good mix of both.  It's all about the client.



_"Why, Signor Da Vinci, may I call you Leonardo?  I must admit that I don't really enjoy the portrait you have painted of my wife, Lisa. I would prefer that it be wider and show some buildings or perhaps the courtyard of our lovely home. It does not fill the wall space I had planned for it, consequently I must ask you to redo it wider. Perhaps, to fill the space with some interest, you could add in our greyhounds playing in the courtyard?

Yours sincerely,

Francesco del Giocondo"_


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## Bitter Jeweler (Jun 24, 2011)

Kbarredo said:


> iKokomo said:
> 
> 
> > Wow! I really am beginning to learn the people on this forum
> ...



Why? Are you going to make this thread about you now too?


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## bluebendphoto (Jun 24, 2011)

relax! 

Firstly, I wouldn't charge it I were you. adding money into the equation changes everything. you will feel an incredible amount of pressure to give her the 'perfect' images and she will expect a lot more than if she weren't paying for it. if she isn't happy with what she gets, there won't be any hard feelings on either side. you might suggest that after she sees the photos if she wants to throw a hundred bucks your way that would be cool. 

IMO once money is exchanged people get weird if they get a product their not happy with. if you're not confident that you can give her that i'd stay away from $$$.

gear-wise... if i'm not 100% sure of what i'll need i bring everything i got. literally. you might want to think about borrowing or renting a nicer lens if you can. those zoom lenses aren't going to give you the DoF that you'd want and the 50 isn't really a portrait lens.


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## The_Traveler (Jun 24, 2011)

I have no idea what started the personal attacks but thank you for not including me.

That being said, one doesn't have to be a better - or even good - photographer to have a sensible and worthwhile opinion about pictures.  Fine art or movie critics certainly aren't expected to paint or create films as well as their subjects.

I have never shot a wedding - happily. And so I don't have to deal with the unpleasant or demanding or unhappy or unattractive people.  I don't have to deal with shoehorning pictures into a book.
However, this isn't supposed to be critique based on external personal or business constraints.
But, from an artistic sense, even us non-wedding photographers can look at a shot and say whether we think it is good, bad or indifferent. 

If a sports picture is blurry, it doesn't get a pass because the person was running veeeeeery fast or you had to sneeze 
 IMO, if you have to shoot a shot horizontal or in some way less than ideal because you need it, then show it here cropped the way you wish you could have used it or don't show it.

This is about art not pleasing a third party.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As far as personalities go, I have a good sense of only three people.

Derrel is incredibly opinionated, spares no one and is pretty straight.  He will fight unceasingly for his opinions.
Bitter Jeweler is a pretty square guy, not above a nasty remark, but usually funny and doesn't seem to have a self-image problem. 
Myself - I am quite opinionated but attempt to be honest without being cruel, don't care if people disagree as long as they make sense.              -inevitably quite nasty when insulted.  

There are a unfortunately long list of people who are terribly self-referential.  I imagine that is because they feel insecure but that is pretty silly in this environment. 
As long as one is straightforward, sincere, honest about their work and willing to listen to others, the care and attention one gets is exemplary.


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## Kbarredo (Jun 25, 2011)

remember the good old days when pictures used to be put into a book under a plastic cover. Anything bigger was just framed. Lol now making an album is like making a magazine.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Jun 25, 2011)

The_Traveler said:


> As far as personalities go, I have a good sense of only three people.
> 
> Derrel is incredibly opinionated, spares no one and is pretty straight. He will fight unceasingly for his opinions.
> Bitter Jeweler is a pretty square guy, not above a nasty remark, but usually funny and doesn't seem to have a self-image problem.
> ...



Dude! I am too hip to be square!


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## gina_d (Jun 25, 2011)

With respect to those who have cultivated a knowledge base of photography, portraiture and/ or the visual arts in a more general sense, I disagree with the premise that choosing a horizontal orientation is indicative of beginner status or just flat out wrong.

An artist should never confine himself to compulsory rules set forth for him by other artists. Taking a portrait in a horizontal format is a perfectly valid choice. That someone would choose to do so does not denote him a beginner any more than choosing a vertical format denotes someone as an experienced professional. I find it bizarre that someone in a creative field would suggest otherwise. 

If one wants to emphasize the vertical, fill the frame with the subject, go for a more traditional pose/ result - yes, of course, take that shot.  If one wants to give context to the portrait with inclusion of the environment, isolate the subject with an asymmetrical balance of white space and subject - take that shot. There's no rule, folks. One is not more valid than the other. 

A horizontally framed portrait is definitely a more current, contemporary take. It also tends to be less formal which holds appeal for many situations. There's a cinematic drama and familiarity to us as well - when was the last time you saw a movie shot in vertical orientation? We're accustomed to seeing in this format - television, film, computer monitors. All that said, there's no reason to discount shooting in a vertical orientation either. Stunning photos can be obtained in either format. 

People who are new to image-making (and maybe not so new) should take shots in both orientations. Figure out from really looking, comparing, contrasting, to see what's working and what you and/ or others respond to aesthetically. Don't dismiss a horizontal composition out of hand because you fear it'll mean you're doing it wrong and you'll be branded with the amateur/ beginner/ wannabe tag. 


johngap.jpg (image)

http://obamapacman.com/2010/01/anni...ibovitz-queen-elizabeth-ii-official-portrait/

http://peoplesforeignexchange.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/susan-sontag-annie-leibovitz.jpg

Art News | 'Annie Liebovitz ~ Women' on view at the Brevard Art Museum | Art Knowledge News

http://www.labdailyblog.com/wp-cont...hed-by-Annie-Leibovitz-for-Louis-Vuitton.jpeg

Johnny Depp by Annie Leibovitz - My Modern Metropolis


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## Vtec44 (Jun 25, 2011)

gina_d said:


> An artist should never confine himself to compulsory rules set forth for him by other artists. Taking a portrait in a horizontal format is a perfectly valid choice. That someone would choose to do so does not denote him a beginner any more than choosing a vertical format denotes someone as an experienced professional. I find it bizarre that someone in a creative field would suggest otherwise.



Wow, very nicely put.


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## camz (Jun 25, 2011)

gina_d said:


> With respect to those who have cultivated a knowledge base of photography, portraiture and/ or the visual arts in a more general sense, I disagree with the premise that choosing a horizontal orientation is indicative of beginner status or just flat out wrong.
> 
> An artist should never confine himself to compulsory rules set forth for him by other artists. Taking a portrait in a horizontal format is a perfectly valid choice. That someone would choose to do so does not denote him a beginner any more than choosing a vertical format denotes someone as an experienced professional. I find it bizarre that someone in a creative field would suggest otherwise.
> 
> ...



:thumbup::thumbup:


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## vtf (Jun 25, 2011)

iKokomo said:


> Oilersrock said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I disagree.
Have her go to Sears portraits then.
Clients come to you for your style. Top photographers each have a style to their work, very seldom will they compromise that for the sake of what the client wants.


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## The_Traveler (Jun 25, 2011)

I can't speak for the others but my impression of newbies is that they search really hard for a rule or a technique to be their style and, to be perfectly honest, their abilities at composition aren't sufficiently developed to understand when to do what.  

If we looked through pictures in the Beginner's Forum, I think we'd find lots of poorly done pictures in the name of 'style'; overdone vignettes, bad lighting, bad exposure, terrible post-processing, horrible composition - all in the name of creativity. 
When someone starts to learn piano or any other art, they start with scales and learn to do the simple things first. 

'Rules' are helpful because they constrain some efforts until more basic issues can be learned. I like beginners to think of taking portraits in portrait mode until they get exposure etc, working for them, then a little more complex composition can work into it - sort of the walk before running theory.


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## iKokomo (Jun 28, 2011)

Ok thanks for everyones help! I appreciate it all!


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## Kal3ido (Nov 2, 2011)

I feel you should charge, not alot prolly $50 for your time especially if she wants copies and decides to use your pic for the yearbook. The only reason I say charge is because you have to fund your photography someway and somehow. More true if you plan on getting serious about it.


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