# How do I even begin to put myself out there?



## 777DAFF (Aug 13, 2015)

(Crossing my fingers this is the correct forum for this.)

I am 22 and have always been interested in photography, but didn't get my hands onto my own DSLR until earlier this year. I definitely have a lot to learn still, but I do aspire to be able to shoot professionally some day. My main interests are shooting music events, other performance events, fashion events, possibly news, landscape is bottom but not out of the question, and 0 interest in school/wedding/prom/family photos (dislike anything set up really.. I enjoy taking photos of people just doing what they do, not paying me any mind!).

I don't have any schooling beyond high school and no connections that I can think of.
How can I possibly starting wiggling my way into the business world of this?
I thought I may try out sending landscape photos to local papers to possibly push my name out there a little, but like I said.. What I really want to squeeze into is music. I don't have much idea how to do that. In the past I recall some people saying try to get permission to shoot at small bar gigs for small bands for practice, but I'm not even sure how to get into that or where to go from there. How do I get from no experience to shooting for shows? How much of a chance is it that someone who wants to shoot shows will actually succeed and be able to do it? Questioning if my aspirations are even possible. I have shot for personal use at concerts from the seats with a zoom lens, but I don't often get to attend concerts and just missed a chance to shoot 3 different artists at one by not taking my DSLR with me, hahah. :'(

I live in Delaware in the USA, and there's not a whole bunch of events going on here that I can think of that I can try to push my way into.

Sorry, a clueless novice trying to figure out where to start, and then where to go from there.
In need of any guidance anyone is willing to provide me!


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## ronlane (Aug 13, 2015)

First of all welcome to the site.

With less than a year experience, I would have to suggest that you just continue shooting and learning without worrying about the business side of things. Having to worry about business stuff AND how to get the images.


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## 777DAFF (Aug 13, 2015)

ronlane said:


> First of all welcome to the site.
> 
> With less than a year experience, I would have to suggest that you just continue shooting and learning without worrying about the business side of things. Having to worry about business stuff AND how to get the images.



I can get that 100%, hahah.
I guess I just feel like if I can both learn and possibly put myself out there a bit simultaneously, that I would prefer to do that.
Or more likely to just hold off on business, but it'd still be nice to have some kind of future "plan" to know what I should do to head in the direction that I want.

Thank you for the welcome!


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## ronlane (Aug 13, 2015)

Just go shoot. If that stuff is what you want to shoot just ask, the worse they can say is no.

But the key is to learn photography. You can shoot just about anything to learn photography and the you can apply what you know to what you want to do as you grow.

To shoot music events and stuff of that nature, you know that it is going to be a low light situation. Start practicing shooting stuff in low light situations where you know that you can handle any situation.


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## ronlane (Aug 13, 2015)

Another thing, you may be able to learn both at the same time but if your images are not worth selling, then no one is buying anyway.


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## robbins.photo (Aug 13, 2015)

777DAFF said:


> (Crossing my fingers this is the correct forum for this.)
> 
> I am 22 and have always been interested in photography, but didn't get my hands onto my own DSLR until earlier this year. I definitely have a lot to learn still, but I do aspire to be able to shoot professionally some day. My main interests are shooting music events, other performance events, fashion events, possibly news, landscape is bottom but not out of the question, and 0 interest in school/wedding/prom/family photos (dislike anything set up really.. I enjoy taking photos of people just doing what they do, not paying me any mind!).



Ok, first, rent a chicken suit.

Then stand on a street corner with a your camera and a bucket, tell people you'll take there picture for $1.  

That should get you over your fear of "putting yourself out there".  As for the rest, musicians are notoriously cheap so getting any sort of gig shooting music venues is probably going to be a serious uphill battle.  Fashion is about as cuthroat as it gets from what I hear, so again your looking at a pretty serious road to hoe as they say.  News, if anything, is probably worse, and landscapes, eh - well News would probably be a lot easier to break into than selling landscapes.

None of these are impossible of course but they are all going to take a ton of work, a lot of pounding the pavement, and probably years and years of commitment on your part before you might start seeing any sort of actual profit from the endeavor.

The reason most professional photographers shoot weddings/proms/family photos is not because it is there passion, but because that is where the money is.

Most of the venues you've mentioned are going to require you to invest time, money etc in taking the photos, then trying to sell them after the fact, and with thousands and thousands of others doing the same, well it's a highly competitive business to say the least.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.


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## Designer (Aug 13, 2015)

777DAFF said:


> didn't get my hands onto my own DSLR until earlier this year. I definitely have a lot to learn still, but I do aspire to be able to shoot professionally some day.


You know that for sure with less than one year's experience?  Bless your heart!

It seems to me that you're going to need an "edge" of some kind.

Either be a photography prodigy,

or be a marketing genius, 

or be lucky enough to fall in with a very good mentor.  

In reading through your story, I'd say the first two are right out, so try to find a pro photographer who will take you under his wing and teach you everything he knows, sets you up with some nice equipment, and introduces you to the movers and shakers.


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## astroNikon (Aug 13, 2015)

Post some of your photos here and ask for Serious Critique

then you can, and we (TPF members) can, judge your abilities as the Pros here can give you tips on your technique, etc.   Then you can figure out if your photos are ready for prime time.


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## Derrel (Aug 13, 2015)

"A journey of a thousand miles begins with one step." 



Just start working at it. Forget the self-doubts and worries and fears and apprehension. Just START. Anywhere. With anything. Bar bands. Public festival bands in the park. Bands at senior centers. Polka bands. Garage bands. Start shooting and gain experience, confidence, and a portfolio. Get yourself out there. Talk to managers at venues. Contact bands in your local area. Just do it. You've just simply got to start, somewhere, at some time. 

Might as well be this week.



"


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## KmH (Aug 13, 2015)

Yep. Start walking the walk, keep your goal in sight, and don't stray from the path.
Be prepared, because you'll be walking uphill all the way.

And that was the good news.
Here is the not so good news.

You're going to need some additional schooling - self-taught or formal.

_You'll need business skills_ - accounting, marketing, advertising, promotion, how to write an estimate, knowing copyright/trademark law fundamentals, commercial use licensing, etc. Business Resources American Society of Media Photographers
You need to make your 'business' legal by registering the business, meeting record keeping and financial requirements, of the appropriate city, state, and federal agencies. Many city/state governments will require your business have liability insurance and a business bank account so personal and business funds are not co-mingled.
How good are you at doing basic math? Both business and photography require having basic math skills.
Business skills are more important than photography skills if you hope to have a sustainable business.
Few businesses started on a shoestring budget stay in business. Hopefully you have a substantial amount of $$$$$$ in savings.
Frankly, professional photography is dying. Rapidly.
Lots of skilled amateurs will shoot the kind of stuff you want to shoot - for free.



> 0 interest in school/wedding/prom/family photos (dislike anything set up really.. I enjoy taking photos of people just doing what they do, not paying me any mind!).
> The type of photography you want to do has always been a tough way to make money, let alone enough money to be your sole source of income.
> You have to pay for your expenses before you make any money, and part of the trick is identifying all of your expenses.
> A photographer today can still make a living by doing what you have zero interest in doing - school/wedding/prom/family photos.
> ...


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## manicmike (Aug 13, 2015)

Honestly, I'd find another profession. The market is so over saturated. There are so many MWACs that put out decent photos that only charged $50 for a mini-session, it's really difficult to make a living with photography.


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## Derrel (Aug 13, 2015)

manicmike said:
			
		

> Honestly, I'd find another profession. The market is so over saturated. There are so many MWACs that put out decent photos that only charged $50 for a mini-session, it's really difficult to make a living with photography.



Yeah, there's an idea. Give up. Put in some job apps at all the big box retailers. Take the civil service tests, maybe see if you can _get on with the state_. Not sure WTF I was thinking by encouraging you.  (Only half-kidding you...but the other half is serious...KmH and manicmike are giving you some tough news to hear, but it needed to be said, I think!)


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## vfotog (Aug 13, 2015)

777DAFF said:


> (Crossing my fingers this is the correct forum for this.)
> 
> I am 22 and have always been interested in photography, but didn't get my hands onto my own DSLR until earlier this year. I definitely have a lot to learn still, but I do aspire to be able to shoot professionally some day. My main interests are shooting music events, other performance events, fashion events, possibly news, landscape is bottom but not out of the question, and 0 interest in school/wedding/prom/family photos (dislike anything set up really.. I enjoy taking photos of people just doing what they do, not paying me any mind!).
> 
> ...



You have a lot of possible interests. That alone tells me that you're not ready to get involved with the business end. You have to know what your strengths are as a photographer. To learn that, you have to shoot more and see what skill set you develop. You already know you're not interested in shooting product. That's a start. But if you want to be able to make a living on anything, you don't want to run before you can walk. If you deliver subpar work, you're liable to damage your reputation. Or get sued! Skills first, and learn about the business side, and then try and make some money. I've seen so many photogs that were good photographers but terrible business people.

Most of the people who say just go for it when talking about shooting music, don't really shoot music. If you want to make a living, shooting music is probably not the way to go. The field has changed a lot, and getting worse every day. Technically, it's one of the more difficult. Dealing with constantly changing light and movement is challenging. And sure, you can start with local tiny venues and they may let you shoot, but small bands also always claim poverty. (Even though there's always money in the beer budget, etc) But for most gigs of any sort of non-beginning band, you need permission from management, etc. They are generally NOT going to issue a press pass unless you are representing a media source. (The shooting for yourself days are just about dead unless you are a big name photographer.) Problem is, most publications, blogs, etc pay almost nothing. Not enough to really live on. Especially because you have the problem that there are waaaaaaay too many fanboys who are so excited to be shooting a band that they are willing to do it for free. Buyers would rather "hire" for free someone of mediocre talent than pay a little for really good talent.

It gets worse. Restrictions on concert photography have gotten really onerous. More often than not, the photographer is presented with a release right before the show. You have to be able to read and comprehend this legal document on the spot, as you will be expected to sign it or not shoot. The problem is, many of the releases are rights grabs; the artist, who has paid literally nothing, expects you to turn over all your rights. ALL. You even need written permission to use the images in your portfolio! They sometimes want copies of all your images. You can't use the images for anything else. All the legendary music photogs held on to their rights and many still sell prints of their works. Unfortunately, as too many photogs sign these releases, they are becoming more common. That makes this genre of photography much less viable as a way to make a living. If you want to shoot music and eat, it's probably more likely that it will be a side option to your primary photographic income. I know that no one wants to hear this, but it's today's reality. But please learn more about photography first.


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## dennybeall (Aug 13, 2015)

You've got a good idea and the very first thing you need to do is find a career that you can use to make a living. Perhaps something that involves working at home, like writing or computer programming. You need income and the freedom to travel and be up until 3 am night after night. Now you're ready to think about how to pursue your dream of photography.


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## thereyougo! (Aug 13, 2015)

Get a hard cover for your camera if you intend to shoot Taylor Swift, so I've heard...


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## vintagesnaps (Aug 13, 2015)

C'mon Robbins you're already out there in your monkey suit, you don't want that kind of competition do ya?! lol

I'm mostly self taught as a photographer but have taken workshops etc. over the years. It's always been a sideline for me and challenging to say the least today for anyone to earn a fulltime living as a photographer. Seems like those who are, have established studios or spent years building up a business and a reputation.

Newspapers have cut/fired photographers so existing jobs in that field are few; mostly it's freelance or the paper giving their reporters a cell phone (that actually happened at the Chicago Sun Times, sad to say).

Along with ASMP which I use and has already been mentioned (and has a lot of info. to read and study, webinars, etc.) you could try PPA or take a look at Photo Magazine Professional Photography Industry News and Resources .

Doing events means knowing what to do in a variety of situations, knowing your camera as well as the back of your hand, being able to compose and frame shots efficiently/quickly as things can happen fast. It seems to be making contacts, finding an opportunity, and one leading to another.

The starting point as far as it being more than a hobby might be the tricky part; for me it was a 'would you do ___?' and wasn't anything I'd planned on or expected. Over time people get to know you as the one at all the games shooting hockey (or in your case the one at the ___ shooting ___). Somewhere along the way I knew I had talent, I loved it and could spend hours at it, and knew someday I'd do 'something' with my photography - it was years later before I figured out what that would be. More recently I've been doing submissions to juried exhibits, but that is no way going to pay the bills!

I'd suggest considering joining a camera club, taking adult continuing ed.; if there's a photography exhibit somewhere get your butt there. Some things don't necessarily lead to anything, other times it can be surprising where you may learn something or get an opportunity. But you know the saying about not quitting your day job, you'll probably need to figure out something that can provide income and over time _maybe_ the photography will develop into a part time job/career (and realistically that's probably a big maybe).


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## robbins.photo (Aug 13, 2015)

vintagesnaps said:


> C'mon Robbins you're already out there in your monkey suit, you don't want that kind of competition do ya?! lol



And what my dear is wrong with wearing a tux?  James Bond wears a tux.  Lol


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## The_Traveler (Aug 14, 2015)

In just my local camera club, there are two photographers who provide interesting examples of what the photography business is like today.

The first is a sports shooter who has been shooting as close to full time as possible for years. He has press passes to every sporting event locally, has immense amounts of equipment and spends every weekend on the road somewhere.  He's had shots in most major publications but actually shoots high school and local college sports for most of his income and depends on his spouse's excellent job for most of his livelihood. 

The second is a friend who shot road and track for the last 8-10 years. He travelled a lot and has based his business on sales to the drivers and crews. He quit recently because the drivers have been getting all the shots they need from friends with cameras and the drivers don't  appreciate the difference between the average shot and what he produces. 

I love shooting and don't make any attempt to get paid for shots (if indeed anyone would want them) because I don't want to trade enjoyment for money.


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