# Film is slowly consuming me.



## eric-holmes (Apr 27, 2011)

My growing interest in film is nearly consuming me. I don't know why exactly, but it is. I havent picked up my digital camera in a few weeks now. Maybe it's the fact that film feels more personal. It's more about me, the photographer, when I shoot film. maybe it's because I am more of a hands on kind of guy. I like mechanical things. I'm sitting here thinking of selling my hunting rifle to help furnish the purpose of a decent MF camera. But part of me also feels like I need to slow down and think about the other aspects of film. The time, the cost. 

Would anyone like to share their experiences? 

Oh, and another thing. I am scared of spending a nice sum of money on a manual focus MF but that is all would be able to afford. I would be completely scared of missing focus.


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## Josh66 (Apr 27, 2011)

eric-holmes said:


> Would anyone like to share their experiences?


 I've had a camera of some kind for as long as I can remember, and since I'm not 10 years old, almost all of them have been film cameras.

I bought a 350D right when it came out (what was that, 5 years ago?  6?) and used it for a couple years.  I didn't hate it or anything like that ... it was just never really the same.  These days I've given up digital all together.

Also - don't sell your rifle.  Find another way to get the money, or just save up longer.  I have regretted every gun I sold...


But yeah, clear off a spot on the shelf because I have a feeling your digital body will be sitting there for a while.


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## ann (Apr 27, 2011)

One doesn't get involved with film, including their own darkroom work to save money. They do so, because as you are beginning to notice, they love the process.

FIlm is organic, Digital is mechanical.  I love film and have been doing darkroom work for over 60 years, it is still magically. However, digital also gives me the opportunity to experiment along different lines, and in someways is also very magical. Just 1"s and 0"s on steroids.

You appear to be a young fellow with good eye sight, manual focus is no so hard. I only switched to auto when my eyes got too old to repsond as quickly as I wanted.  I still have a manual focus lens (as that is the only way it comes) and I find it isn't as bad as i once thought


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## Derrel (Apr 27, 2011)

Whatever you do Eric, don't try crack. Or meth. Or heroin.  Or base jumping. Or parachuting. Or off-track betting. Or casino blackjack. Or tequila shots with young exotic dancers. ALL those things are highly addicting--even more so than shooting film!!!


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## eric-holmes (Apr 27, 2011)

Derrel said:


> Whatever you do Eric, don't try crack. Or meth. Or heroin.  Or base jumping. Or parachuting. Or off-track betting. Or casino blackjack. Or tequila shots with young exotic dancers. ALL those things are highly addicting--even more so than shooting film!!!


For sure! And I have an addictive personality. I can't just half way think about things. Once I start thinking about things, it's all I can think about. I'm sitting in class right now on my iPhone researching cameras.


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## Derrel (Apr 27, 2011)

OH, ALSO, STAY AWAY FROM: trap shooting, sporting clays, skeet shooting, competitive pistol shooting, muscle cars, sports cars, collectible coins, fly fishing, antiquing, horse racing, and beer-drinking.


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## eric-holmes (Apr 27, 2011)

O|||||||O said:


> Also - don't sell your rifle.  Find another way to get the money, or just save up longer.  I have regretted every gun I sold...
> 
> 
> But yeah, clear off a spot on the shelf because I have a feeling your digital body will be sitting there for a while.



The only reason I would sell my rifle is because I don't hunt anymore. I used to hunt until I got married. The wife doesn't like deer meat and I have touched it in maybe 3 years. It's a nice .270 Weatherby just gathering dust.


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## Paul Ron (Apr 27, 2011)

If you really feel film is expensive, think again. Ink n paper these days is not any cheaper than chemicals n paper. Besides you are having so much fun playing in the dark. I loe the feeling I get after a long night in my darkroom n looking at the dried prints the next day. I stand back n wow myself each n every time. I made that! 

Besides ditgital pictures are nothing more than posters. Each n everyone is exactly the same as they pop out of the printer. Your prints are hand taylored to be close but never exactly the same when doing a run, unique in their own personal way, each coddled by the maker, like molding clay.

Also there is a new thing in the market these days. People are buying silver wet prints as if they are the last of a dying breed soon to be extinct. It';s a fashion statement to have B&Ws on your walls, signed originals by anybody as long as they are from someone's darkroom. Just keep your eye on the backgrounds of movies n TV shows, see what I am taking about? 

Sell you prints at flea markets and you'll be able to afford more film n chemicals, and maybe a few dancing girls too. 

.

.


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## o hey tyler (Apr 27, 2011)

Derrel said:


> OH, ALSO, STAY AWAY FROM: trap shooting, sporting clays, skeet shooting, competitive pistol shooting, muscle cars, sports cars, collectible coins, fly fishing, antiquing, horse racing, and beer-drinking.


 
What about photography?


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## Josh66 (Apr 27, 2011)

o hey tyler said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> > OH, ALSO, STAY AWAY FROM: trap shooting, sporting clays, skeet shooting, competitive pistol shooting, muscle cars, sports cars, collectible coins, fly fishing, antiquing, horse racing, and beer-drinking.
> ...


 It's obviously far too late to try to avoid that one.  :lmao:

You should also avoid astronomy too though.  Telescope lenses cost just as much as camera lenses...  I have a whole box of them that haven't been used in like 3 years...lol!


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## Mike_E (Apr 27, 2011)

If you're worried about focus then a split image ground glass will help.  You can find them for most of the more popular MF cameras.

Although knowing the actual length of the DoF at the distance per aperture for the lens you are using will go a long way towards your relaxation.  Try focusing just behind your subject and then bring it into focus.  (there is more wiggle room in the back of the DoF so you are more likely to get acceptable focus this way)


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## KVRNut (Apr 27, 2011)

Sounds like a case of film addiction here and film is addicting all right.  You know you've got it real bad when you look at a Zone 6, Wista, or an Ebony LF camera and start drooling or fantasizing.  Another sign you got it bad is when you buy a good beer fridge and use it strictly for film.  MF film is more costly than 35 mm per shot but then the results are more than worth it when you do an enlargement that you can hang on the wall.  You'll find that you'll take more time to set up your shot with MF than 35 mm too.

If (make that when) you do go MF, try getting a 6x7 that allows you to change backs to 6 x 6, 4.5 x 6, or panoramic 35 mm.  Yes, glass is important but you can build the amount of glass you have gradually.  Think about getting an AE viewfinder and a waist level finder (great for fine tuning your focus).  I have both and use them both a lot.  If you shop around, you can get into MF pretty cheaply for a complete camera or you can buy the camera one piece at a time.  KEH has some pretty good prices on used MF gear.  Maybe you can even hold on to your rifle.  

Just a word of warning.  Getting into medium format can lead into an interest and addiction to large format gear and picture resolution that'll blow yer mind.

Good luck with your addiction.


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## eric-holmes (Apr 27, 2011)

My Argus has a split image screen. It is actually one of the most annoying this I have used. You move the dial back and forth until the image lines up, unless you look through it at a different angle and then its not actually lined up. My TLR I just purchased has ground glass in the top viewer. It makes the image so dim. And you can't see anything through it if you are out in the sun. I think I would like something that you look TTL.


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## Paul Ron (Apr 27, 2011)

Upgrading already... there goes the rent money dear oh and I need to buy a new enlarger, my old one is too small... and wasn't that 8x10 camera we saw at the shop really nice... Sold the car for fim dear. 

here we go... another one on the line, welcome to the club.


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## KVRNut (Apr 27, 2011)

Think about getting a camera that allows you to change focusing screens.  
Your problem with your Argus is one I run into with my rangefinder cameras.  Just keep your eye centered square to the view finder.  
With your TLR, looking thru a ground glass means using a hood or dark cloth over your head and view finder.  You'll be surprised at how much brighter things get.


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## eric-holmes (Apr 27, 2011)

Maybe I will go with something like a cheaper Bronica and ease my way into MF. How are those focused?


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## KVRNut (Apr 27, 2011)

I have 4 Bronicas (ETR, ETRSi, SQ, & GS-1) and they're manually focused with bright view finders. That brand is a good way to get into MF and in their day, they were a technically advanced camera with a good variety of extras. Bronicas are also an aperture priority camera with the shutter in the lens. You can get an AE view finder for them along with waist level view finders. If you want to find out more about them so you can figure out which one you'd like, check out butkus.org for manuals.
If you ever need service, here's the place. Koh's Camera Headquarters
Here's a link to Tamron's Bronica archives for more information.  http://www.tamron-usa.com/bronica/slr_archives.asp


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## antiquerookie (Apr 27, 2011)

I started down the film road again a year or so ago.  It's been fun and frustrating.  For getting started in MF, I suggest a Yashica 124G.  Mine cost $160 on eBay plus $50 for CLA to get the exposure meter working.  I got a good 4x loupe for my 4x5 Crown and have used it on the ground glass of the Yashica for focusing, which works very well for me.  (My 73 year old eyes need all the help they can get.)    I took the Yashica to Monument Valley last Fall.  The photo clarity and fine detail were very satifying using a tripod.

For range finder cameras, I've found that taping a piece of orange sheet filter over one of the openings helps keep your eye lined up.  The focus spot is orange and stands out better.  I use this on my Koni Omega Rapid M, which is a 6x7 rangefinder (initial cost $225, final cost I don't want to know after two more lenses, CLA, a light meter, and a large case).  This is a big heavy ugly mechanical beast but it takes fine pictures.

For point-and-shoot simplicity in MF, there's my Fuji GA645Zi, autofocus, autoexposure, auto load/rewind/advance, which also can do good photos.  It's pricey but easy and fun, a good street shooter and a pretty good traveling camera, as MF cameras go.

To me, film is for fun fooling around near home, although I did take three film cameras to Monument Valley (plus a D90 and an S90).  Digital is best for travelling and for serious recording events type stuff, like grandkids and ball games.  Whether you're using film or digital, you still have to judge the light, compose the scene, and time the shot, which are the essentials of photography.


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## djacobox372 (Apr 27, 2011)

It's rather strange to me how reluctant film shooters are to try medium or large format, if you told a dslr shooter that they could buy a 60-100 megapixel dslr for only a few hundred bucks they would throw the money at you.


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## Josh66 (Apr 27, 2011)

antiquerookie said:


> For range finder cameras, I've found that taping a piece of orange sheet filter over one of the openings helps keep your eye lined up.


 Great tip.  I just tried it with a little piece of a gel.  I think I'll check a few different colors and see which one seems to work the best.


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## KVRNut (Apr 27, 2011)

This is one film shooter that wanted medium format a few years ago, got into it, and is now looking forward to the large format experience.  Reluctant?  No.  Excited?  YES!!  I'm sorry that I didn't get seriously into medium format before that.  Using my Dad's MF cameras is a lot of fun and a special experience for me now.

I think the big problem with a lot of film users reluctance to try MF is the intimidation factor of the size of camera and the lack of film suppliers and places to get the film developed that are available to them locally.  Another factor is that there's a crop of young photographers out there that are only just beginning to try 35 mm film so going from a small digital sensor to a medium format is a large leap into the unknown.

I'm going to have to try that orange filter paper tip antiquerookie.  Sounds like a winner!


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## eric-holmes (Apr 27, 2011)

I'm not exactly reluctant, just afraid of the unknown. I had never even loaded film into a camera until this year. I grew up digital. My 35mm Argus is completely manual and that makes me nervous. There is no meter so every shot I take is an educated guess. That is, unless I meter with my digital and go from there.


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## Josh66 (Apr 27, 2011)

KVRNut said:


> I'm going to have to try that orange filter paper tip antiquerookie.  Sounds like a winner!


 On my XA at least, I had to put it on the front side.  The viewfinder became whatever color the gel was, and the focusing patch was a nice yellow square on top of that.


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## Wade in Jamul (Apr 27, 2011)

Film is fun, no doubt about it. Each format has its own learning curve but none are really hard. Just go out and shoot to learn the way the camera works. Practice is the best learning tool. Reading about your camera is a good start but getting the camera in your hands and using the controls will make you comfortable with it very quickly.


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## MattxMosh (Apr 28, 2011)

I PM'd you a link to where a few of us have bronicas, good stuff cheap.


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## TheHabit (Apr 29, 2011)

I got consumed too :mrgreen:... I signed up for a beginning phot. class at my local community college this semester, and noticed on the class info it said "manual focus film camera required". A quick craigslist crack deal landed me with a pentax k1000. I made a post in this film category about it in December, and I have been so consumed by it I haven't made a single post on here since. I pretty much live in the darkroom whenever I have extra time .

There was one week when I was super interested in getting a MF, but decided that I was getting too far ahead of myself, and realized that I can still learn just as well with what I already have and put that money into film, paper, and books.   

If you like to read, goto your local library and pick up Ansel Adams series; The Camera, The Negative, and The Print. At least read "The Negative". I have been pretty immersed in the photography section at my library, and these have been the most helpful by far. :thumbup:


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## ann (Apr 29, 2011)

eric,
google "sunny16 rule" , it can be very helpful for making easy decision  without a light meter.  I know several photographers who dont' use a meter, but have trained their eye to read the light.

THe above was for many years printed on the inside of the Kodak film boxes. It does work.


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## Proteus617 (Apr 29, 2011)

"My TLR I just purchased has ground glass in the top viewer. It makes the image so dim."
Why don't you try cleaning the TLR before you move on?  The hood of your Ciro comes off with 4 screws and takes 2 minutes to clean.  Makes a big difference.  Even if you do break out the big bucks for medium format SLR, you might find that the metering prism is not nearly as advanced as the meter in your DSLR, so a handheld meter is a good idea.


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## Cat nt Tat's Dusky (Apr 30, 2011)

Don't resist it. Let the warm fuzzy feeling consume you.

I just love my old AE-1!! Lenses are cheap for the most part, as opposed the the serious bank I will be spending on digital stuff!


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## eric-holmes (May 1, 2011)

Proteus617 said:


> "My TLR I just purchased has ground glass in the top viewer. It makes the image so dim."
> Why don't you try cleaning the TLR before you move on?  The hood of your Ciro comes off with 4 screws and takes 2 minutes to clean.  Makes a big difference.  Even if you do break out the big bucks for medium format SLR, you might find that the metering prism is not nearly as advanced as the meter in your DSLR, so a handheld meter is a good idea.


Taking the top off and cleaning was the first thing I did. Would a different ground glass show a brighter picture?


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## Proteus617 (May 1, 2011)

eric-holmes said:


> Taking the top off and cleaning was the first thing I did. Would a different ground glass show a brighter picture?


 Yes, amd a fresnel screen would help even more.  Sometimes old cameras have something to teach you.  You just need patience before you jump to the next one.  On these TLRs you need to get your face right down on the hood, especially in bright light.  I think your problem my be not managing outside flare rather than a dim screen.  Tripods and TLRs get along well together.  Make a hood with your hands.  I've also used a t-shirt draped over my head.  Do all this with your magnifier flipped out.  Once you have you are done with critical focus, you can back off a bit for composition.


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## Ed Bray (May 1, 2011)

I bought a Hasselblad outfit last year as I missed MF photography, I now have 2x bodies (500CM and 503CX), 6x lenses (40mm, 50mm, 80mm, 150mm, 180mm and 250mm), 4x finders (2x WLF, Mag Hood and 45 degree prism) and 6 backs (3x A12 and 2x A16 {6x4.5 Horizontal} & Phase One H10 Digital) as said be warned, it can become extremely addictive. And this doesn't include ancillary extras such as filters, hoods, screens and the likes.


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## eric-holmes (May 1, 2011)

Proteus617 said:


> eric-holmes said:
> 
> 
> > Taking the top off and cleaning was the first thing I did. Would a different ground glass show a brighter picture?
> ...


 So are there different transparencies of ground glass? And what is a fresnel screen?


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## KVRNut (May 2, 2011)

There can be different tranparencies of ground glass. If you have a LF camera, you can make your own ground glass and grind it to suit your needs. I had to do that with a 1901 Century 8 1/2 x 6 1/2 wet plate camera. It took a few looong evenings of hand grinding to get the results I wanted and unfortunately, more than one piece of glass.

A fresnel screen is a focusing screen often overlaid by a pattern of concentric lens sections. It directs the light from the screen corners towards your eye and makes the image you see evenly bright. They ain't cheap...


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## eric-holmes (May 3, 2011)

Ok. I took it all apart again and took out the ground glass. There were actually two things layered together. Is this hurting me?


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## eric-holmes (May 3, 2011)

Ok, one is ground glass and the other is a fresnel scree. But now that they are clean, I forgot how they were stacked when they fell out.


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## KVRNut (May 3, 2011)

Fresnel goes in first with the rough side down followed by the ground glass rough side down.


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## eric-holmes (May 3, 2011)

Stupid internet! I found conflicting info when searching and already assembled it. I put the fresnel in first, ribbed side up and etched glass in second.


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## AUG19 (May 3, 2011)

LOL. I can relate 


eric-holmes said:


> Ok, one is ground glass and the other is a fresnel scree. But now that they are clean, I forgot how they were stacked when they fell out.



Best kind of learning.


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