# Need a new computer monitor



## Reflections (Apr 1, 2008)

Ok so I am sure I am not the only one going crazy :er: trying to find a monitor that gives you the closest colors to your print. I was told a few weeks ago by a fellow photographer that the Samsung Color Innovation monitor would be the best however when I went on Best Buy the reviews by other photographers were not good. Does anyone have some advise on what is tried and true. I am quite frustrated and I need something ASAP! My monitor is not doing the trick! Please help...Thanks! :hug::


----------



## Alex_B (Apr 1, 2008)

The Eizo Colour Edge screens are _very_ good.
http://www.eizo.com/products/graphics/index.asp

Have to edit my post:
I just suggested Eizo since you asked for one of the best. Of course this might be an expensive overkill solution for you.

I agree with the others that maybe calibrating could do a good job already ... also the printer/paper/ink combination can be profiled.


----------



## Big Mike (Apr 1, 2008)

Welcome to the forum.

How accurate to you need to be.  To get as accurate as possible, you may need a professional monitor & calibration system that may cost a couple grand.

For less accurate (but still acceptable to most people) results, you can most monitors in conjunction with a hardware calibration device like the ColorVision Spyder.


----------



## usayit (Apr 1, 2008)

Monitors do play a big part BUT before you abandon your current monitor, you should follow Mike's advice and try to get a calibration device for your current monitor.  

You can purchase the most expensive monitor out there, but it won't be an improvement unless you calibrate it.


----------



## Garbz (Apr 1, 2008)

B&H Have the X-Rite iOne Display 2 calibrator with software for $380 I think. That's a good start.

If you need a monitor and you need an LCD screen there's research to be done and considerations to be made. Photo editing is best done on inplane switching screens (IPS). These are by far the most expensive of any LCDs, but are necessary since they retain colour uniformity regardless of viewing angle. S-PVA screens may, and I say may with a lot of caution, only just suit your needs for colour accuracy. Twisted nematic (TN) panels should be avoided at all costs. These are great for games feature excellent input lag are cheap but horrid for colour reproduction. Most can't even display the a smooth sRGB gamut because of lack of 8bit colour. If a screen is advertised with a sub 10ms lag it's most likely TN so avoid it.

Now monitor for closest colour for print is probably the NEC SpectraView series of screens specifically the NEC LCD2180WG-LED-SV. But these naturally come at a price (21" @ $3500). The IPS screens mentioned above (Eizo Colour Edge, and I think the Samsung MAY be too) are a good too and cost considerably less. The other option is go for the non-LED spectraview series of screens. I use the NEC LCD2690WUXi SV 26" screen for $1400. Both of these NEC screens come with a iOne Display 2 colorimeter for calibration and feature internal lookup tables so your calibrated colour actually gets uploaded into the display and doesn't just play with your graphic cards gamma curve.

The other main consideration is colour management. Both NEC displays I just mentioned are Wide Gamut displays, even the cheaper one displays 97% of the Adobe RGB gamut which is a pain in the arse when you're looking for colour managed software.

Other options (and I am still recomending NEC here because Eizo have been mentioned already): NEC MultiSync series of screens should all be IPS screens. The LCD2490WUXi is similar to the larger and more colourful brothers in feature wise but displays the sRGB gamut for better compatibility and less colour headaches. It still features internal lookup tables, backlight compensation etc etc.


----------



## Sideburns (Apr 1, 2008)

Garbz said:


> B&H Have the X-Rite iOne Display 2 calibrator with software for $380 I think. That's a good start.
> 
> If you need a monitor and you need an LCD screen there's research to be done and considerations to be made. Photo editing is best done on inplane switching screens (IPS). These are by far the most expensive of any LCDs, but are necessary since they retain colour uniformity regardless of viewing angle. S-PVA screens may, and I say may with a lot of caution, only just suit your needs for colour accuracy. Twisted nematic (TN) panels should be avoided at all costs. These are great for games feature excellent input lag are cheap but horrid for colour reproduction. Most can't even display the a smooth sRGB gamut because of lack of 8bit colour. If a screen is advertised with a sub 10ms lag it's most likely TN so avoid it.
> 
> ...



I have an IPS screen, and will agree.  TN is pretty horrible.

Mine is the Dell 2007WFP.  You'll have to check if the screen is still an IPS panel or not...but I highly recommend any of Dells WFP line.


----------



## Trenton Romulox (Apr 1, 2008)

I have heard awesome things about Apple's displays, as well as Dell's top of the line ones. In fact, I have heard nothing but good things about both Apple's and Dell's. Apple's are a bit old now though, and an update is up in the air at the moment, so I'd say Dell's top monitors would be a safe, solid choice.


----------



## Garbz (Apr 2, 2008)

Sideburns said:


> Mine is the Dell 2007WFP.  You'll have to check if the screen is still an IPS panel or not...but I highly recommend any of Dells WFP line.



Be careful. You are right not all in the WFP line are IPS. The 2408WFP is the one I was looking at buying before the NEC. This is a wide gamut 24" S-PVA display and rated rather horribly in comparison for colour consistency. 



Trenton Romulox said:


> I have heard awesome things about Apple's displays, as well as Dell's top of the line ones. In fact, I have heard nothing but good things about both Apple's and Dell's. Apple's are a bit old now though, and an update is up in the air at the moment, so I'd say Dell's top monitors would be a safe, solid choice.



So you missed that Apple recently settled a class action lawsuit about misleading advertising in their macbook / macbook pros saying they supported full 8bit colour but infact were dithering the colours to make it look as such.

But a reputable company wouldn't try screwing consumers twice would they? Oh wait someone sued them yesterday about their new 20" and 24" displays being TN but being advertised as IPS: http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/03/31/apple_hit_with_another_millions_of_colors_lawsuit.html

But in fairness to you the older 20" and 24" apple displays outclassed Dell's IPS screens and set the bar pretty high.


----------



## Trenton Romulox (Apr 2, 2008)

Garbz said:


> Be careful. You are right not all in the WFP line are IPS. The 2408WFP is the one I was looking at buying before the NEC. This is a wide gamut 24" S-PVA display and rated rather horribly in comparison for colour consistency.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nope, I didn't miss that. I just don't see the big deal? Apple gets sued ALL the time. But that doesn't lead me to believe their products are shoddy, in the least. And for the record, my 1920x1200 display in my 17" MacBook Pro is by far the best display I've ever used, just so you know. 

And yet, you still leave Apple's Cinema Displays untouched in your attack against Apple. Which, I find odd considering those are the displays I was talking about. And don't try and attack those displays for being in some way plagued by misleading advertising or whatever, because the panels are the same Dell uses in their high-end monitors. Unless they are both lying corporations.


----------



## Iron Flatline (Apr 2, 2008)

Btw, the Apple Cinema Displays have the same components as the big Samsungs, which cost less. They're not as cool looking though.

EIZO for the win, of course. Everything else is not even second.


----------



## Helen B (Apr 2, 2008)

Iron Flatline said:


> EIZO for the win, of course. Everything else is not even second.



Users of the Cintiq 21X might disagree - after using the 12WX with my MacBook I decided on the 21X instead of a normal screen for my main computers, and I'd choose the NEC SpectraView Reference 21 (LCD2180WG-LED, as mentioned by Garbz) over an Eizo. They're all good, however.

Best,
Helen


----------



## Garbz (Apr 2, 2008)

Trenton Romulox said:


> And don't try and attack those displays for being in some way plagued by misleading advertising or whatever, because the panels are the same Dell uses in their high-end monitors. Unless they are both lying corporations.



You miss read my intentions of the post. I did in fact say that the Apple screens previously bested Dells. I am just saying that don't buy an Apple display RIGHT NOW, because unless you choose very carefully are you sure you'll get an older IPS panel or a newer much worse TN panel. I said do some research because your blanket "I've heard good things about Apple displays" would include both good AND bad ones. Also if you dig deeper not ALL MacBooks had the same display either.

Don't get me wrong for the most part Apple make fantastic products. I just get ****ty at a few very shoddy business decisions they make every so often which for whatever reason still gets defended by Apple fans. 

/Edit: If they are the same panels as Dell's "top of the line" then they are S-PVA. But given that the Apple Cinema display recently slapped Dell's new 24" in a review (something I also said) it would lead me to believe they are  different.

Oh and yes Dell is evil too. Here in Australia the ACCC has upheld 2 complaints about misleading advertising last year against Dell


----------



## CanadianMe (Apr 2, 2008)

Apple Cinema Display is what I use as a secondary monitor to my Macbook Pro (Or my iMac, depends on which of these I am working on). My prints come out looking what they look like on my monitor as long as I calibrate my monitor to adobe rgb and use the ICC Profiles that came from my printer company. And before you spend any money have you seen if your printer company offers ICC profiles and if you can calibrate you monitor manually or see what what profiles are available for your display and recalibrate your monitor. Going and buying another display may not help. If you go that route go to place that has a no hassle return policy and that way if the one you choose is not working, exchange it for another and if you still have issues return it and buy a Calibration device, or get the device first and it it doesn't work return it for a monitor. Calibration devices work most of the time, but they can be buggy and like with monitors they range all over the place in price. It could be as simple as getting ICC profiles from you Printer company, try the free options first.


----------



## Early (Apr 2, 2008)

Are you sure it's not your printer and software?

BTW, I recently bought a Samsung 22" LCD, and while I'm not into printing from a computer, what I do print matches what was on the screen.  This is no boost for Samsung, or even LCD's, mind you, because video really sucks compared to my old CRT.


----------



## ddm1975 (Apr 16, 2008)

Wanted to bump this thread!  Reflections, did you decide on a monitor?  I am also shopping for a 22 or 24" in the price range of $300 - $400.  Anymore suggestions of brand or retailer?  I've been researching on newegg and have always heard good things about viewsonics and liked my previous crt.  The Sceptre seems to have decent reviews.


----------



## ddm1975 (Apr 17, 2008)

Garbz.........I used some of your information to research for a monitor and none of the sites specify IPS, S PVA, or TN.  You always have useful info., so how do I tell?  :er:  er, I'm confused!


----------



## Garbz (Apr 18, 2008)

Errr search for a review on the specific monitor they can normally tell you.

I can tell you with certainty all NEC Multisync, Eizo ColourEdge, and many of the Dell screens are IPS screen. NEC bury this information in their technical marketing PDF you can download on any of their monitor's webpages. 

http://www.pchardwarehelp.com/guides/s-ips-lcd-list.php Here's a list I found, but it's no where near as "comprehensive" as they claim to be.


----------



## ddm1975 (Apr 18, 2008)

Thanks so much for your help Garbz!  I was looking at newegg, dell, hp and bestbuy; now I want another computer too!    Now all I need is money!  lol


----------



## royalWITHcheese2 (Apr 25, 2008)

Question...is TFT the same or similar to IPS? Because I saw a NEC Multisync monitor on dell.com that is listed as a TFT, also a few other brands on B&H are listed as TFT.


----------



## Garbz (Apr 25, 2008)

No TFT and LCD are terms used interchangeably on websites. LCD is the technology itself, and TFT (ThinFilmTransisor) in the most basic sense is what you call an array of LCD pixels.

The best way I think would be to do a google search for the monitor and IPS. If it doesn't show a decent number of results then you can assume it's not. e.g.:

http://www.google.com.au/search?q=NEC+Multisync+IPS
2nd result: "The MultiSync models are produced in two versions that have different types of the matrix. The LCD2190UXi has an S-IPS matrix from NEC"
3rd result: "IPS-based modules, inarguably the highest performing LCD technology available ... Pricing and Availability: The NEC MultiSync LCD2490Uxi AND LCD2690Uxi are ..."
5th Result: "The multitude of features included in the NEC MultiSync LCD1990FX, ... Professional LCD monitor with S-IPS (Super-Inplane-Switching) TFT display ..."

If you find a screen you think you like a review found through google should tell you the rest.


----------



## royalWITHcheese2 (Apr 25, 2008)

Gotcha. The reason I ask is because I've been looking for the NEC multisync because you said they were all IPS and on the NEC website, and others, they say the type is TFT so I wasn't sure if that was the same thing or not.


----------



## Garbz (Apr 26, 2008)

It never hurts to double and triple check anyway. I was lead to believe that all Multisyncs are IPS.


----------



## royalWITHcheese2 (Apr 26, 2008)

Ok, thanks


----------



## zendianah (May 8, 2008)

BUMP ** I need a new monitor and I'm looking into Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 2070SB 22" CRT Monitor used for 150.00 Is that a good deal? AND is this a good monitor.... I hear that CRT monitors are better then LCDs. Thoughts?


----------



## zendianah (May 8, 2008)

bumpity bump bump bump...


----------



## Mike_E (May 8, 2008)

You guys realize that there are only about 5 LCD panel manufacturers in the world and that just about every monitor brand uses them interchangeably, don't you?


----------



## Garbz (May 8, 2008)

Yeah but how does that help the people who have no idea which panel is used in which model by which company  Anyway we weren't really discussing the merits of brand as much as the merits of panel technologies.

Zendianah yeah CRTs were the choice for viewing photos. They don't suffer many of the problems of LCDs like uneven backlights, uneven colour distribution, low viewing angles, etc. I used a CRT for years until it died, thankfully too I get much less eyestrain with my LCD panel now anyway.


----------



## zendianah (May 8, 2008)

Garbz said:


> Yeah but how does that help the people who have no idea which panel is used in which model by which company  Anyway we weren't really discussing the merits of brand as much as the merits of panel technologies.
> 
> Zendianah yeah CRTs were the choice for viewing photos. They don't suffer many of the problems of LCDs like uneven backlights, uneven colour distribution, low viewing angles, etc. I used a CRT for years until it died, thankfully too I get much less eyestrain with my LCD panel now anyway.


 

thank you garbz.. I think I will go ahead and spend the 150.00 -- its used but I can save money for a nice NEC LCD. Right now that is not in my price range.


----------



## Valethar (May 15, 2008)

Something to bear in mind for those still using CRTs. The older the monitor, the less likely a calibrator (Like the spyder) will be able to help you. According to the manual that came with mine, anyway.

I don't have it handy at the moment, but I don't know that the same can be said for LCDs, so it's definitely worth the time to do the research first.

That said, if you're using an older CRT, it may well be worth the money to buy a new LCD instead of trying to calibrate the CRT, since there's a possibility you won't see much improvement.


----------



## Garbz (May 15, 2008)

True an old CRT is potentially harder to calibrate as the tubes are slowly giving out. But... I would still prefer a display that lacks contrast due to over enthusiastic calibration, than a $150 LCD like my dad's where the colour changes depending on exactly where the chair is positioned at the desk.

For $150 if you can put up with them and find working ones, a CRT, especially a good one like a one of the Mitsubishi, Sony, or Viewsonics Pro models will give you much greater bang for your buck, even if the investment is likely short lived and probably not that good for your eyes in the long run.


----------



## mengo55 (Mar 10, 2011)

I'm new member. 40+ yrs amature photog taking baby steps trying to upgrade to serious amature/ simipro. After reading y'alls comments, I'm looking at the NEC Multisync EA23 monitor. It seems to have the benefits you guys commented on. I can get it reasonably priced around $268 bucks. Am I on track or screwing up? This is in my price range. I have same beafs as others with print and view matching. I have a Epson printer.


----------



## 480sparky (Mar 10, 2011)

I got a 23" Samsung at Sams' Club for $199.  That was last June, so who knows what they have now.


----------



## iloveshooting (Mar 13, 2011)

There are going to be many options out there. It really depends what your specific needs and budget. IPS technology is a must for anyone considering serious color management. IPS gives a much broader viewing angle and superior color accuracy.  You can find decent IPS displays such as the Dell Ultrasharp series for less than $300. See here, http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/sna.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&~topic=ultrasharp_monitor

That being said, it really depends on your specific needs. For many these value IPS displays are adequate. For others, such as high end print houses or commercial photographers, many need the higher quality of higher end displays like, Eizo, Barco or Lacie. Best of luck to you.


----------



## JustAnEngineer (Mar 15, 2011)

Since this thread necro comes 3 years after the original discussion, the models recommended then are no longer available.

The Dell UltraSharp monitors (e.g.: U2311H) offer quality IPS LCD panels at reasonable prices.  There's a coupon that expires this week that makes the prices quite good.
Dell UltraSharp IPS Monitors - Slickdeals.net


----------

