# need help with quoting for model shoot



## de_tec_tive (Jun 3, 2013)

I some advice please! i've been hired to do product shots for some watches, and now they're enquiring about doing a shoot with a model (one photo), either in a studio or on location. 
the client said "We'd provide a suitable location. The image would be used primarily for a little sign to be displayed behind the watch in some jewellery stores. It may also have other various marketing uses but they're not doing any big media campaigns or advertisements with it."


so they just want me to take one good photo and edit it, i don't have to arrange the model, hair & makeup or any of that. i'm a professional photographer (but i wouldn't say that i'm a great one) and I do either live music or products, i've never done a shoot with a model before so i've got NO IDEA how it works. 
i don't know much about how to charge for the usage etc - what would be a ballpark figure to charge? and then you're meant to give them a rate for just one year, and then more after that - is that correct?

to put things in perspective, i have charged $90 per image for the 6 watches i have shot for them. i'm sure that i'm capable of doing this shoot with the model, i'm just a bit iffy about the lighting but i'm going to bring a friend who can help and i'm going to give him a cut of the pay. 


if you can give me any help/advice at all i would really appreciate it. my main priority is getting the wording right when i email them on how they can use the photo, because i don't want to sound like i don't know what i'm talking about. 


here's one of the photos of the watches so you can gauge my level of experience/quality of work: http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/3209/watchx.jpg

thanks so much in advance!


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## imagemaker46 (Jun 3, 2013)

Well it's a nice picture of a watch.  I can't gauge your skills as a "professional" by one static photo of a watch.  You've already stated that you're not a great photographer, so you have already admitted defeat. Tell them to use a professional photographer that doesn't come with self tagged inexperience.  If you are just starting out, taking a job you aren't comfortable with can be an early career killer.


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## Designer (Jun 3, 2013)

Right.  Can't tell much from the example photo.  

How are you with portraits?  Not to say this would be a portrait, per se, but lighting (in general) is going to be important.  

Remember; this is essentially a product shot, but now you have to light the model too.  

Post a portrait.


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## de_tec_tive (Jun 3, 2013)

i've never done a portrait before, not ever. that's why i'm nervous - i've turned down lots of jobs because i'm shy and don't have the experience, and worry i'll look like an idiot (obviously i have self esteem issues haha), but i just need to stop saying no and get some experience!


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## ronlane (Jun 3, 2013)

Are they wanting a full length portrait of the model or just a crop of the models are with the watch on it?


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## tirediron (Jun 3, 2013)

de_tec_tive said:


> i've never done a portrait before, not ever. that's why i'm nervous - i've turned down lots of jobs because i'm shy and don't have the experience, and worry i'll look like an idiot (obviously i have self esteem issues haha), but i just need to stop saying no and get some experience!


True, but getting experience on the customer's dime is NOT the way to enhance your reputation.  I would say there are two options:  (1) Pass altogether, saying that it's not your area of expertise, but you are working on it, and will be able to undertake these sorts of commissions in the future, or (2) Agree and sub-contract to another pro you know who has the skills.  IMO, taking on the job with the concerns you have is NOT going to end well.  Do you even have the equipment to light a person?  

If you want to practice, then sign up with a 'site like Model Mayhem and to Trade-for shoots until you gain the skills.  There are usually lots of aspiring models willing to step in front of your camera for an hour or two for some free shots.


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## pic_chick (Jun 3, 2013)

Do it! the lighting set up is pretty simple here 




to all the people say you should not do not learn on someone else dime hemm on the job training happens maybe get a friend to come over and tweek your lighting before the shoot but do it and do it well stop saying I can't I never; you never will by saying that. 
  The best out there got there by doing and doing and doing better don't hate on your self your skills you got the whole world to do that for you so head up move forward and get it done.


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## pic_chick (Jun 3, 2013)

you tube has tons of great how to for this very thing.


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## imagemaker46 (Jun 3, 2013)

de_tec_tive said:


> i've never done a portrait before, not ever. that's why i'm nervous - i've turned down lots of jobs because i'm shy and don't have the experience, and worry i'll look like an idiot (obviously i have self esteem issues haha), but i just need to stop saying no and get some experience!



You made the statement "I'm a professional photographer"  with that comes the responsibility of being just that.  By what you have said you are clearly not ready to bill yourself as a professional, regardless if you believe you are.  What you should do is take some courses on portrait photography, there must be some camera clubs they may even be able to help you out.  If you are turning down jobs because you can't handle the mental pressure, it's really time to just take a couple of steps back until you get some confidence and experience in yourself.  We've all been through the same thing, the difference is the majority on this forum aren't calling themselves professionals, even though the quality of the work many produce is at that level.


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## runnah (Jun 3, 2013)

&#8220;I'm no model lady. A model's just an imitation of the real thing.&#8221;
- Mae West


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## tirediron (Jun 3, 2013)

imagemaker46 said:


> de_tec_tive said:
> 
> 
> > i've never done a portrait before, not ever. that's why i'm nervous - i've turned down lots of jobs because i'm shy and don't have the experience, and worry i'll look like an idiot (obviously i have self esteem issues haha), but i just need to stop saying no and get some experience!
> ...


I'm not sure that's totally fair comment Scott; after all I think one can be a professional without being skilled in all aspects of the craft.  I like to think of myself as a reasonably decent portrait shooter, but stick me in a nightclub and tell me to get good party shots, ehhh, I'd probably have a tough go the first round or two.  That said, as I indicated earlier, I don't think it's professional to take on work you're not competent at, nor to "practice" on the customer's time and dime.


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## ronlane (Jun 3, 2013)

Are product shoots really that much different than a portrait used to promote the product? They both utilize off camera flash. Given that the OP is a professional photographer, I'm not judging or saying one way or the other, shouldn't a little research and say an hour of shooting be able to produce one good photo that the client is looking for?


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## runnah (Jun 3, 2013)

ronlane said:


> Are product shoots really that much different than a portrait used to promote the product?



I am not a product Ronny, I am a human being!


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## ronlane (Jun 3, 2013)

runnah said:


> ronlane said:
> 
> 
> > Are product shoots really that much different than a portrait used to promote the product?
> ...




I didn't say that you were a product. It's my understanding that they are wanting a portrait of a model wearing the watch for display. Am I wrong that product shots and portraits both use off camera flash? If so, then isn't it a matter of fine tuning the lighting. (I"m not trying to offend anyone, I'm actually trying to learn the difference in the lighting).


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## tirediron (Jun 3, 2013)

runnah said:


> ronlane said:
> 
> 
> > Are product shoots really that much different than a portrait used to promote the product?
> ...


I find there is a lack of supporting evidence for this hypothesis.


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## cgipson1 (Jun 3, 2013)

tirediron said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> > ronlane said:
> ...



^This! Many of Runnah's posts support my theory, that:

A.  Runnah is a small child in a third world country, that is suffering from severe sleep deprivation
B.  Runnah is a rather intelligent, non-malicious computer bot written by a sleep deprived small child in a third world country.


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## imagemaker46 (Jun 3, 2013)

tirediron said:


> imagemaker46 said:
> 
> 
> > de_tec_tive said:
> ...



Perhaps not totally fair, so I will go back to my original comment, tell the client to use someone else that can do the job.


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## tirediron (Jun 3, 2013)

ronlane said:


> Are product shoots really that much different than a portrait used to promote the product? They both utilize off camera flash. Given that the OP is a professional photographer, I'm not judging or saying one way or the other, shouldn't a little research and say an hour of shooting be able to produce one good photo that the client is looking for?


I suspect different photographers will have different viewpoints.  IMO, they are quite different.  Yes, they both utilize studio lighting, but the nature and application of the lighting can be very different.  For instance, a highly reflective product such as a watch or ring may rely heavily on subtractive lighting, using many small lights clustered tightly around a desk or worktable with dozens of small gobos and reflectors carefullly placed here and there, where as a complex fashion shot may require several large lights with large SBs, and modifiers such as grids and snoots.  Granted, if you understand lighting theory and are good at one, you should be at least mediocre at the other, but if you don't practice...  even Tiger Woods would probably be no more than a hack golfer if he didn't practice hours every day...


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## tirediron (Jun 3, 2013)

imagemaker46 said:


> Perhaps not totally fair, so I will go back to my original comment, tell the client to use someone else that can do the job.


And on that sir, we agree!


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## runnah (Jun 3, 2013)

cgipson1 said:


> ^This! Many of Runnah's posts support my theory, that:
> 
> A.  Runnah is a small child in a third world country, that is suffering from severe sleep deprivation
> B.  Runnah is a rather intelligent, non-malicious computer bot written by a sleep deprived small child in a third world country.



I am of flesh and bytes... I mean blood.


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## cgipson1 (Jun 3, 2013)

imagemaker46 said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> > imagemaker46 said:
> ...



I agree that a "client" should never have to "pay" a photographer to learn something that they don't know how to do, at the shoot itself. If a gig was accepted, the photographer should already have the knowledge to do a competent, professional job before they show up at the shoot!


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## vintagesnaps (Jun 3, 2013)

I think you need to accept jobs that you feel confident in your ability to handle. If someone asked me to take pictures of backlit signs in an arena or a group of people holding a big fake cardboard check before a game I'd say sure, I can do that; if they asked me to photograph a wedding I'd run screaming into the night (unless it's a wedding involving a limo on ice, then I might consider it.)

I agree it takes lots of practice and learning but I don't think during a paid shoot is the time and place to be just starting to learn how to do a particular type shot; learning how to do it first would more likely help a photographer be successful at it.


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## imagemaker46 (Jun 3, 2013)

There are jobs that I know I can shoot, but I will still recommend friends that specialize in them.  Clients appreciate it, and somewhere down the road the favour comes back.


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## de_tec_tive (Jun 3, 2013)

thanks so much for your advice everyone, i really appreciate it. you're right, learning while the client it paying is not the way to do it, it's unfair to them. i'll pass them on some details of other friends they can ask.

the other jobs i've passed up on doing were bands (i do alot of live music). i might join some facebook groups etc that have models wanting to do shoots so i can get some practice first. thank you!


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