# Idiots working at wal-mart photo...



## BadRotation (May 15, 2005)

I had to take some photos in to the god-forsaken store AGAIN (last time they wouldnt release my photos to me because they said they were copyrighted photos)

I had to get some photos done quick since my sisters boyfriends parents are going back home today (they live out of state) and the local photo shop was closed today.

SO I take some in, and here is an example of what happened.....









They printed the 4X6 EXACTLY like it was supposed to be, but went and cropped the crap out of the 8X10, which should be the exact same (4X6 and 8X10's are the exact same aspect ratio from what I understand)


They cut off the top of his head, and about 1.5" off the bottom of the pic as well...

This really irritates me...


Plus their skin looks reddish/pink compared to the originals.


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## hobbes28 (May 15, 2005)

If you have time...go to CVS and use their little electronic editor to crop your picture because a 4x6 isn't the same ratio as an 8x10...((4x6)x2=8x12).  At least with you having control of the crop and color, you can decide which part of the picture to crop instead of letting someone in the wal-mart lab do it for you.


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## BadRotation (May 15, 2005)

hobbes28 said:
			
		

> If you have time...go to CVS and use their little electronic editor to crop your picture because a 4x6 isn't the same ratio as an 8x10...((4x6)x2=8x12).  At least with you having control of the crop and color, you can decide which part of the picture to crop instead of letting someone in the wal-mart lab do it for you.




Yeah, I just found out 8X10 is slightly different.  But the local place usually prints them perfect every time.    

Wal-mart totally butchers them though.  Im never going there again.


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## Corry (May 15, 2005)

Yeah...8X10 are going to do some cropping on a 4x6, and places like Walmart do not look at every single picture, so it is not likely they would catch something like that.  And as for the pinkish skin...again, with places like Walmart, every machine is going to be different.  Some stores might not maintain their machines like they should, or certain calibrations get a bit...off.  You get what you pay for...if you want quality, don't take it to a place like Walmart.  I work at Walgreens, and I don't even develop my prints there anymore, when I am really looking for quality.  I take them to a local place that is quite a bit more expensive, but awesome quality.


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## ksmattfish (May 15, 2005)

BadRotation said:
			
		

> But the local place usually prints them perfect every time.



Well, the local place apparently knows what you want even when you ask for something else.  The guy at Walmart provided you with what you asked for.  Personally, I like that in a lab employee.  I'm not a fan of the ones that second guess me.

I worked in a pro lab for 4 years.  Don't be that customer that expects the lab people to read their mind.  Know what you want, or ask questions.  They would be glad to do it however you want, if they can.

EDIT:





> Plus their skin looks reddish/pink compared to the originals



Did you provide them with a sample to match?  I'm not sure if Walmart even offers color matching, but you will get different results from color neg film even from the same professional lab without a guide to match.


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## tranceplant (May 15, 2005)

NEVER go to wal-mart for any reasons what so ever!


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## BadRotation (May 15, 2005)

tranceplant said:
			
		

> NEVER go to wal-mart for any reasons what so ever!




Trust me, I try not to, though this problem with cropping seems to be a bit of my fault (even though the lab tech. is supposed to crop the photos correctly before they are printed.


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## ShutteredEye (May 15, 2005)

tranceplant said:
			
		

> NEVER go to wal-mart for any reasons what so ever!


Preach on!

I HATE that place.


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## BadRotation (May 15, 2005)

mountainlander said:
			
		

> Preach on!
> 
> I HATE that place.




Me too, but like I said, his parents were leaving for the airport, and they werent gonna be around earlier when the local place opened.


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## photong (May 15, 2005)

Yes they are mroe pink in the 8x10.

The ratio isn't the same....8x12 would be more equal. On an 8x10 you lose 2 inches on the longest side. I learnt this the hard way when making prints for my portfolio  I have to try and leave a lot of space around my subject(s). Trying to remember NOT to crop in camera is a hard habbit to break. Some of my better pictures couldn't be made as 8x10 because of this. MAYBE 11x14 will be better? I haven't been able to experiment with this yet.

So anyone. The lab tech should have moved the crop up so his head doesn't get cut off. That is...if they have that technology/program to do it. I use one of those Kodak kiosk things. The store prints it with their machines though. The Kodak picture maker thing is just the machine you can load them into, crop, red eye removal, borders, etc.

Too many problems with walmart. If the place I go ever gives me a problem I would take it up their bums so far they'll give me everything for free


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## darin3200 (May 15, 2005)

I live in a smaller town and all we have for photos is a Wal-Mart. There used to be a small camera shop in town, but that closed before I became involved in photography.   
However, the Wal-Mart here seems to be better than the ones described earlier.  I brought in some negatives to be made into an 8x10 and when I went to pick up my prints they lady working there had me check the print before I left just to make sure I was okay with the cropping.
I must go there too often because yesterday I went to get some color film developed and the person said working said "Oh, no black and white today?"


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## Contra|Brett| (May 15, 2005)

People just don't understand aspect ratios,  Whenever doing enlargements in my lab, I always double check the cropping, and if there is any questionable cropping, and the choice is either chopping off part of a head, or cutting too much of the waist off, I always take the time to explain why, then I either suggest another size, or ask which print they like more (if this is the case, i make three prints, one with some head cropped out, one with more waist than i would like cropped out, and one thats a sort of comprimise between the two)

I don't beleive wal-mart color corrects either, which would explain your pink skin tones.


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## ksmattfish (May 16, 2005)

There are no lab techs at Walmart and many other econo-labs.  The machines are programmed to do the color, and if you tell it to make an 8"x10" from a 35mm neg or 2:3 ratio image file it crops 1" off each side of the length (looks like that's what happened here).  The people who work there are trained in customer service, to maintain the machine, push the right buttons, check the chems, and take out the trash.  They aren't getting any training in actual photography.  They probably didn't even apply to work in the photo lab; they were placed there after applying to the whole company.  It's cheap, no frills service.  Don't expect anymore than that, you probably won't get it.

Of course there is always exceptions.  I met the manager of the photo lab at a Walmart a few towns over, and he was a passionate amateur photographer, and took a lot of pride in the photos his lab turned out.  He tried to hire other amateur photographers and photography students.  The customers there were getting very nice service for a heck of a deal.

When you pay pro lab prices you aren't paying for the machines and chems, they are almost the same in many cases compared to econo-lab equipment, you are paying to have a human being look at your work, and make thoughtful decisions about how to make it look the best.


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## mentos_007 (May 16, 2005)

that's why I hate huge photo labs.... I do my prints in small ones where almost every photo is treated with enough care


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## fadingaway1986 (May 16, 2005)

There are the exception to the "lab workers who know nothing about photography"...

I know my boss maintains the machines to some of the highest standards. On our last "checkup" from kodak. We got a perfect score (300/300). I personally like photography and try to make the prints look best. However - in higher volume labs, it isn't so much that they don't care - it could just be that they are too busy - and people demand having their photos back so fast. At the prices develop & print are at in the higher labs - the stores can't afford to put on extra staff to accomodate, and therefore more pressure is but on the lab staff...

But if you have such a big problem - why don't you go back and ask if they could re-do it. You should take a proof with you and ask them to get it as close to the proof as they can. Be polite - they will be more likely to help you then!


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## loopy (May 18, 2005)

tranceplant said:
			
		

> NEVER go to wal-mart for any reasons what so ever!



Oh come on now, I work in the walmart photolab. 

You must try to understand the whole copywrite thing. So many people come in and try to print copywrited photos. Its illegal, and we get in cr@p for it. I know its a pain in the ass, but how are we suppose to know who is telling the truth and who is lying. 

I think I'm the only photographer who works in my lab. But I find the people I work with take pride in how the photos come out. 

It varies from lab to lab, its not very fair to say that every walmart lab will produce poor results.

Anyways, 2cents from the walmart employee. (even tho I wish I didn't have to admit that)

Cheers,
Loopy


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## hobbes28 (May 18, 2005)

Loopy...I have to say that you are the bravest person on this forum to willingly come into a Wal-Mart bashing thread. :lmao:

Here we have a prime example of stereotyping proven wrong.  Sorry that you had a bad experience with your local Wal-Mart.  I've had the same thing happen to me at Wal-Mart too as well as happening at CVS, Target, etc... but I will always use CVS to do my one hour printing because the good far outweighs the bad.  I guess looking back, the same holds true for Wal-Mart as well.  I bet that even the best place messes up every now and again.


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## photong (May 18, 2005)

"i make three prints, one with some head cropped out, one with more waist than i would like cropped out, and one thats a sort of comprimise between the two)" A lot of companies can't afford that even if they get credit for scraps.

A lot of labs that can take that type of care, still don't, because too many people hate their jobs and are there for collecting a paycheck..it's so sad


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## loopy (May 24, 2005)

hobbes28 said:
			
		

> Loopy...I have to say that you are the bravest person on this forum to willingly come into a Wal-Mart bashing thread. :lmao:



Someone has to stand up for then 

Actually the worst service and quality I've ever gotten from a photolab was from a professional one.


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## thebeginning (May 25, 2005)

loopy said:
			
		

> Oh come on now, I work in the walmart photolab.
> 
> You must try to understand the whole copywrite thing. So many people come in and try to print copywrited photos. Its illegal, and we get in cr@p for it. I know its a pain in the ass, but how are we suppose to know who is telling the truth and who is lying.
> 
> ...


 
very brave of you.  wal mart is much closer for me than a photo lab, so i usually end up going there.  so far everything has been pretty fine.  

i find it funny that you partially censored crap, but not ass.


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## Shawn (May 25, 2005)

loopy said:
			
		

> You must try to understand the whole copywrite thing. So many people come in and try to print copywrited photos. Its illegal, and we get in cr@p for it. I know its a pain in the ass, but how are we suppose to know who is telling the truth and who is lying.



How do you determine what is copyrighted and what isn't, and what if the person who comes in there is the copyright owner?

When my grandfather died, the best photo my grandmother had of my grandfather was taken at Olan Mills in a mall, and thus copyrighted and as a result she did not have any decent photo to send in to the newspaper.  If we had time, we probably could have talked to the Olan Mills people for permission and worked something out, but there was no time.

Luckily, having an interest in photography meant that I had a few good photos of him, and my grandmother went with a photo I took.  There wasn't much I could do about his death, but I felt proud that one of my photos was the one being used to give to the public to remember him by.  It was a nice photo.

Also, I bought the right to my wedding photos, but they still may appear to be copyrighted.  Fortunately for me I scanned them all in at the full size of the printed versions, so I have no need to take the negatives to get developed anywhere, but that still could be a pain.


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## polkaisrad! (May 25, 2005)

Yea since everyone is adding into their hatred for walmart photo labs, why don't I?

Seems like everytime I do some experimenting with different exposure settings and working with lights and what not, always they come back with, " Oh im sorry your pictures didn't turn out!"

Jerks! Thats how it was suppose to be!


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## K_Duffer (May 26, 2005)

At the end of the day, buyer beware.  I think as long as you understand the limitaitons of the quick turnaround photo printers like Walmart/CVS/1 hour photo labs you can get good results.  

For example, I always pre-crop my photos on photoshop for the size of the print I want before going to the photo place so they don't have to do it for me.  Also, at least at the local photo place I go to, I make sure my monitor is calibrated to their system so I can adjust everything to my liking at home and ask them to print without any adjustments.

So many people seem to get mad when the photo place crops the pictures in a way they didn't want or the color don't match what was shown on their monitors at home.  But did they specifically tell the photo place how to crop the pictures?  Or make sure that their monitors were properly calibrated to the printing system? I certainly wouldn't expect someone working for close to minimum wage at 1 hour photo places to be able to do these things properly, and as long as I do all the leg work, I get great results for rock bottom prices.


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## binglemybongle (May 26, 2005)

_*QUOTE*_
_"When my grandfather died, the best photo my grandmother had of my grandfather was taken at Olan Mills in a mall, and thus copyrighted and as a result she did not have any decent photo to send in to the newspaper. If we had time, we probably could have talked to the Olan Mills people for permission and worked something out, but there was no time."_


Is this really such a major issue in the US? Ive taken a lot of photos over the years (admittedly a lot when younger on a little snappy camera) and have never had any issues about copyright. Standing in front of billboards... in theme parks... or anyhting with a 'big' name on it.

I live in the UK and, like i say, it just doesnt seem to happen over here. Im guessing it does in the US because its been mentioned a few times in this thread.


BTW Wal-Mart have just taken over our ASDA cahin of superstores............ can i expect the levels of quality in everything they sell to quickly plummet?!


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## hobbes28 (May 26, 2005)

Binglemybongle said:
			
		

> Is this really such a major issue in the US? Ive taken a lot of photos over the years (admittedly a lot when younger on a little snappy camera) and have never had any issues about copyright. Standing in front of billboards... in theme parks... or anyhting with a 'big' name on it.
> 
> I live in the UK and, like i say, it just doesnt seem to happen over here. Im guessing it does in the US because its been mentioned a few times in this thread.
> 
> ...




It's not just Wal-Mart that doew this with the printing of copywrighted material, CVS has told me before they wouldn't print something I brought in on a CD of mine.  I took the pictures and didn't have any way of proving it to them so I had to go elsewhere to get it done.  Some places worry more about what would happen to them than others so that's where it comes from.

Wal-Mart doesn't come in and make the quality drop in the items it carries.  Their stuff is actually pretty high in quality compared to how it was about ten years go or even longer.  The thing they do is run all of the other local business out of business by offering the same goods at so low of a price, the other places can't compete and end up going under.  What a lot of people think is that when they finally have a complete run of the market, they're going to jack their prices way up because there isn't really anywhere else to buy anything.  In other words, they'll have a monopoly without having one.


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## LizM (May 26, 2005)

Look, I know there are a lot of bad Wal-Mart labs but I have to add that some of them are really good.  The one in Calera, AL has a GREAT staff who really bend over backward to do great work.  I do a lot of digitially enhanced art prints and all I do when I drop them off is tell them not to try to color correct or anything, they are supposed to look "Wierd".  They even called me at home when the machine had problems and it delayed some prints.  They called at like 9PM to let me know they finally got it working and my prints were ready.  I had to show a portfolio the next day and had taken some last minute additions to them for printing.  They REALLY worked all day trying to get that machine working again and they came through.

And its probably a regional thing on the copyright.  Our techs rarely even bother to ask if you own the copyright...unless of course, it has Plan Mills or something stamped on the front of the print.

Anyway, don't lump all Wal-Mart techs in one bucket.  Try different ones - you just might be surprised.


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## Jeff Canes (May 26, 2005)

[font=&quot]What gets me about the copyright issue, is in US all photos are copyrighted, so legally all lab should require a copyright release for every copy they make without or with the negative (the negative could be stolen). It a CYA issue. 
[/font]


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## ksmattfish (May 26, 2005)

Typically having possession of the negs is good enough evidence that you have the right to make reprints.  Yes, you could have stolen them, but it's not up to the counter people to enforce that law.  Any tranfer of copyright comes with paperwork, contracts, or at least a receipt, which should be proof enough.

I wish that professional photogs would mark their photos, but they are still copyrighted even if they are not.  The reason Walmart, and many other places are skittish about this is because they have been successfully sued numerous times.  Copyright law is very clear, and the fines are very big (can be in the millions of dollars).  Claiming ignorance has not proven to be an effective defense, so their employees are trained that when it doubt, don't reprint it.  Even if someone illegally copies something at an unmanned photo kiosk in the Walmart store, they are liable.

If you have problems at an econo lab, go to a pro lab.  They are used to seeing amateur photos of higher quality, and are pretty good at telling whether something can be legally copied or not.  Also they may have waiver forms on hand that would allow them to copy something they think may be copyrighted, but aren't sure about.

If you get busted for speeding, telling the officer that you were late probably isn't going to get you out of a ticket.  Just because it is inconvenient to get the proper permission, doesn't mean it's okay to break the law. 

I give my wedding clients the right to make as many reprints as they want for themselves, friends, and family for personal, private use only, but I retain all copyright.  If they want to use a photo in a commercial manner they need to talk to me.  My contract states this, so if they have any problems they can just show the wedding contract, or have the lab call me.

On other jobs I don't give this permission, and I'm glad that the folks at the labs are looking out for my property.  There is no difference between illegally copying a professional photographer's photos, and stealing from a shop owner.  If you don't like the provisions of the deal the photographer offers, then don't hire that photographer.  It's not okay to agree to the terms, and then decide to break them because they are inconvenient later.

I'm not trying to be a hardass, but this is how I make my money.  The photos I take are my creative property, just like if I were a writer, a musician, or a software programmer.  In this day and age technology makes it so easy to reproduce these things that people rationalize that it can't be wrong, but it is.  If my clients illegally reproduce photos they are stealing from me and my family.

http://www.copyright.gov/

Check out this link for USA copyright info.


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## rangefinder (May 26, 2005)

In my town we have one Wal-Mart and a Super Center.  Processing at the Super Center, and it's customer service, leave much to be desired.  The Wal-Mart at the north end of town has normally given me great service.

Aspect Ratios:  Printing the 4x6 ratio to 8x10 is going to cut off some from the top and bottom or leave a border on the 10 side.  

2x3=4x6=8x12; 4x5=8x10=16x20; 2 1/2 x 3 1/2=5x7; 11x14 has almost the same proportion as 5x7.

Copyright issues are a bugger.  I solved this problem with my Wal-Mart by creating a business card.  I put 3-2x3 on a 4x6 and brought it in to them and had them print it (3 business cards for $.25).  I asked for them to keep my business card on file, just in case the manager or a new tech happens to do my printing.  Additionally, I put a business card in each order envelope for printing.  When my order comes back and the card is there I save it for reuse.  If not I like to think it was given to a prospective customer.  This has gotten me a couple of portrait sessions and a wedding.  I make it a point to get to know the lab techs.  They know I'm honest so I don't get hasseled.

If I think there will be a discussion as to copyright I will ask for a copyright release or bring one with me.  Preventing the discussion is half the battle.  I'll also supply an inkjet print for color matching.

Violation of copyright by the lab can garner a $10,000 (ten-thousand) fine for the store and/or the lab tech.  This is U.S. law and not much they, the lab or the tech, can do about it.  They also must keep the copyright release on file for five years.  

It doesn't seem fair for the honest guy, but such is life.  If I was working at Wal-Mart for minimum wage or slightly higher I know I wouldn't want the feds packing me with a $10G fine.


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