# street beggers



## aubreygraham (Jun 17, 2016)

What do you think, government should do with them? Should they continue this or take step forward to stop it?


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## Stradawhovious (Jun 17, 2016)




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## Designer (Jun 17, 2016)

Your city government can pass an ordnance against public begging, and then order the police to remove them.  

But that is the hard way.  The easy way is for people to stop giving money to the beggars.


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## waday (Jun 17, 2016)

In what country/city? What do you think? What is your opinion? What do you propose the 'government' should do? Why not start programs to help? Do they not have rights? How should they remove them? What should be done to them? How are they going to get the help they need?

Etc.


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## tirediron (Jun 17, 2016)

Moved to Off Topic; as this is a topic which could very easily go off the rails, everyone please keep in mind the rules on politics, respect, etc.


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## gsgary (Jun 17, 2016)

Designer said:


> Your city government can pass an ordnance against public begging, and then order the police to remove them.
> 
> But that is the hard way.  The easy way is for people to stop giving money to the beggars.


And I bet quite a few of them risked their lives fighting for your country because there are ex army living rough on the streets of Britain something that should never happen 

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk


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## robbins.photo (Jun 17, 2016)

tirediron said:


> Moved to Off Topic; as this is a topic which could very easily go off the rails, everyone please keep in mind the rules on politics, respect, etc.



So, keep my trebuchet suggestion to myself.  Got it.  Keeping my trebuchet suggestion on the QT.


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## gsgary (Jun 17, 2016)

robbins.photo said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> > Moved to Off Topic; as this is a topic which could very easily go off the rails, everyone please keep in mind the rules on politics, respect, etc.
> ...


Go on let rip

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## table1349 (Jun 17, 2016)




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## table1349 (Jun 17, 2016)

tirediron said:


> Moved to Off Topic; as this is a topic which could very easily go off the rails, everyone please keep in mind the rules on politics, respect, etc.


Oh you dreamer you.  Remember not where you are at?

Pilot to Bombardier,  pilot to bombardier, you are now flying the plane.  

Your going to need the industrial size padlock for this one.


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## aubreygraham (Aug 2, 2016)

I have seen small babies begging out there at streets. That is what melts out the heart on poor, poverty and illiteracy. At least some action for begging on children should definitely be taken.


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## jcdeboever (Aug 12, 2016)

aubreygraham said:


> I have seen small babies begging out there at streets. That is what melts out the heart on poor, poverty and illiteracy. At least some action for begging on children should definitely be taken.


Some of the smartest young people I know collect on average $400 a day in Chicago, Detroit, Texas, and Florida. Do the math. Things are not always as they appear.


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## jcdeboever (Aug 12, 2016)

aubreygraham said:


> What do you think, government should do with them? Should they continue this or take step forward to stop it?


Nothing. Government should look in the mirror.


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## bogeyguy (Aug 12, 2016)

What would the Donald do?? Wall them in? LOL.


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## unpopular (Aug 12, 2016)

aubreygraham said:


> What do you think, government should do with them? Should they continue this or take step forward to stop it?



In the united states we have freedom of speech. This includes asking people for money. The role of government is not to ensure your comfort, not to maintain your value systems, but to protect your rights.

You do not have a right to not be asked for spare change. Provided that a panhandler is not engaging in a threatening manner or some other manner that violates your rights, it must be permitted.

The genuine question is not what we should do about panhandlers, but rather how we should confront chronic poverty as a whole.

But another way to look at panhandling is that they ARE offering a service. When people give to panhandlers they feel good about what they are doing - no matter how misdirected. That feeling of goodwill is what panhandlers are "selling" whether they know it or not. They use funds from selling this product to often do what many people do with their paychecks, to buy drugs or alcohol.

From a purely pragmatic point of view, if you're going to get upset about panhandlers using the funds procured to buy liquor, then you should have the same issue when you buy any other product. The difference is only the degree which these individuals are able to function as addicts.


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## table1349 (Aug 12, 2016)

Not quite that simple: http://www.cjlf.org/publications/RegulatePanhandling.pdf


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## unpopular (Aug 12, 2016)

jcdeboever said:


> Some of the smartest young people I know collect on average $400 a day in Chicago, Detroit, Texas, and Florida. Do the math. Things are not always as they appear.




Unlike many here, I have been homeless. I can tell you that this is a myth. A group of kids I spent some time around would literally panhandle all day. Like 15 of them. And the most they'd obtain was barely enough to cover one box of wine.

Furthermore, even if a homeless person could make $400/day, most would spend it all on drugs. Yes, that sounds stereotyping, but it's true. Addictive materials is the single most common pathway to chronic homelessness. This is actually a significant problem for those who "find" themselves homeless but do not have an addiction or severe mental illness as it becomes tremendously difficult to find services for this population.

But if you don't believe me, then maybe logic could set you straight. If panhandling were so lucrative to earn one a six figure salary don't you think more people would be doing it? Don't you think they'd earn enough to buy better clothes - or dental care? Or maybe that's just their "work clothes"? Please.... Everyone lies about their income, either through their actions or words. The homeless just don't have anything to show their exaggerated wealth.

But no. Even if so, you can't "do the math", because every penny is normally spent on drugs as soon as it comes in, and also it's likely that if these individuals can raise that kind of money they'll spend it all and party for a few days. There is also a highly communal culture among the homeless, so they will likely make connections by sharing drugs within their associated group, which further affects. This may seem counter-intuitive, but it's a survival strategy.


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## unpopular (Aug 12, 2016)

gryphonslair99 said:


> Not quite that simple: http://www.cjlf.org/publications/RegulatePanhandling.pdf



Any opinion to the contrary is a unconstitutional convenience. The right of free speech and assembly is absolutely protected regardless if the government elects to skirt the rights of the most vulnerable.

This is the very definition of oppression.


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## jcdeboever (Aug 12, 2016)

Ok... your an expert... I didn't want to go here. I was one of those kids. We all averaged the same per hour at the end of the day. Some worked harder than others. You have no idea what you are talking about. Granted, I respect your opinion as a person who may or may not be bothered by people like me. Bottom line is it is an avenue for revenue. Companies rely on it, why not actors who commerce on the street. I loved guys like you, you made it legislative for us to continue to ask for money with no questions asked.


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## table1349 (Aug 12, 2016)

unpopular said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> > Not quite that simple: http://www.cjlf.org/publications/RegulatePanhandling.pdf
> ...


I will make sure to tell the Supreme Court that so they can correct their rulings.  

Why don't you try that thought out.  Go into a crowded theater and yell FIRE a few times.


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## jcdeboever (Aug 12, 2016)

unpopular said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> > Not quite that simple: http://www.cjlf.org/publications/RegulatePanhandling.pdf
> ...


DUDE, relax.


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## unpopular (Aug 12, 2016)

Yelling "fire" in a crowded theater violates the safety of others.

Panhandlers violates the comfort. It's not the same thing.

Yes, the government can regulate the use of public property, but they cannot regulate it in a way that violates the freedoms of the people.

There is no measurable difference in effect on others between simply asking people for change and handing out religious leaflets. The only difference is that one is acceptable speech while the other is not. And by definition that violates the first amendment.


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## tirediron (Aug 13, 2016)




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## unpopular (Aug 13, 2016)

jcdeboever said:


> I loved guys like you, you made it legislative for us to continue to ask for money with no questions asked.



You got that right! If someone is permitted to tell me I'm going to hell, you better believe I support the right to ask for money!


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## table1349 (Aug 13, 2016)

unpopular said:


> Yelling "fire" in a crowded theater violates the safety of others.
> 
> Panhandlers violates the comfort. It's not the same thing.
> 
> ...


You are funny..............



 
wrong, but funny!


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## unpopular (Aug 13, 2016)

gryphonslair99 said:


> wrong, but funny!



Please. Tell me in what measurable way is the effect of simple panhandling on others different from proselytizing?


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## jcdeboever (Aug 13, 2016)

unpopular said:


> jcdeboever said:
> 
> 
> > I loved guys like you, you made it legislative for us to continue to ask for money with no questions asked.
> ...


Oh my...


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## table1349 (Aug 13, 2016)

unpopular said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> > wrong, but funny!
> ...


Per you..._"You do not have a right to not be asked for spare change. Provided that a panhandler is not engaging in a threatening manner or some other manner that violates your rights, it must be permitted."_

Now read what I linked too.


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## jcdeboever (Aug 13, 2016)

unpopular said:


> jcdeboever said:
> 
> 
> > I loved guys like you, you made it legislative for us to continue to ask for money with no questions asked.
> ...


I just dressed poorly and stuck out my big gulp glass


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## unpopular (Aug 13, 2016)

gryphonslair99 said:


> unpopular said:
> 
> 
> > gryphonslair99 said:
> ...



What, the whole thing? Maybe some other time. From the preface:



> how to curb one especially annoying public nuisance—panhandling that is abusive, A Guide to Regulating Panhandling persistent, or threatening.



So clearly this guide is not intended for panhandling in general, but rather "aggressive panhandling". No, you can't threaten people, follow them around pestering them. Specifically, this guide is intended for "panhandling that is abusive".

This is why I was always careful to state "simple" panhandling.

The same would apply to any speech, political and religious alike. You have a right to free speech, provided that you aren't violating the rights of others. The only thing special about panhandlers is their specific social class.

And simply asking for money or holding a sign does not do this, and if somewhere in this guide they suggest that panhandling is inherently threatening that's the kind of "unconstitutional convenience" I am referring to.


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## unpopular (Aug 13, 2016)

(but you know it is easier to not cite your own citation and post insulting gifs)


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## tirediron (Aug 13, 2016)

Okay, let's all relax folks.  We all have our own opinions on this topic; there's no 'right' or 'wrong', just opinion.


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## table1349 (Aug 13, 2016)

unpopular said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> > unpopular said:
> ...


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## 480sparky (Aug 13, 2016)

unpopular said:


> ..........Yes, the government can regulate the use of public property, but they cannot regulate it in a way that violates the freedoms of the people...........



That's true.  At least in _Fantasy_ USA.  In the _Real_ USA, our rights are violated on an hourly basis.


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## unpopular (Aug 13, 2016)

gryphonslair99 said:


>



Your argument is "you're wrong because you're wrong".

It's like debating with an eight year old.


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## table1349 (Aug 13, 2016)

unpopular said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


Yes discussing this with you is like discussing it with an 8 year old.  The reality of the world doesn't matter to you only what you want.  Sorry, were not buying the cereal just because you want the toy in the box.


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## unpopular (Aug 13, 2016)

You failed to demonstrate in what way panhandling objectively differs from any other form of speech and your only evidence to support yourself was a pamphlet that lacks relevance, which you clearly haven't read yourself.

So please, enlighten me to this "reality" you're talking about.

And for heavens sake. Use words, not GIFs.


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## tirediron (Aug 13, 2016)

....... and we're done.   Everyone go outside and take a picture.


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