# Starting up: How much should I charge?



## philaphotog

Hi all -

I'm finally starting to charge for my newborn photography.  I've been shooting my women friends and their babies/families for free for two years now, and am getting referred to new potential clients - not friends - so I think it's time to make this an official business.

I spend 1 to 3 hours shooting the mom and baby (and family, if desired).  I usually go to the family's home (so far this has been within a few miles of my home - I live in center city Philadelphia - so travel is not a cost factor yet).  I shoot tons of digital images, and typically 2 rolls of film as well.  It takes me a week or so (many hours of intense work) to get all the photos organized and edited, and I typically have 100 - 150 photos when I'm done.

I set up a Shutterfly gallery for now (check it out at http://www.shutterfly.com/pro/1215042339383/AmandaHallPhotography - I would LOVE input and suggestions) and am trying to figure out how much to charge per print.  And how what base fee to charge for the shoot itself (which would also have to compensate me for the HOURS I spend working with the photos afterwards).  What do you charge?  Thoughts?

Thanks in advance,
Amanda


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## GerryDavid

Call the local pro studios in your area and use their pricing as a guide.  But make sure its worth your time, and if your spending to much time for the amount of money thats being charged in your area, try to figure out ways to slimline your workflow.  Prices vary from area to area.  Usually really expensive in major cities like nyc to alot cheaper in the country.


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## tirediron

GerryDavid said:


> Call the local pro studios in your area and use their pricing as a guide. But make sure its worth your time, and if your spending to much time for the amount of money thats being charged in your area, try to figure out ways to slimline your workflow. Prices vary from area to area. Usually really expensive in major cities like nyc to alot cheaper in the country.


 
This is part of the equation, but the less important part.  First, figure out how much you need to make to break even.  Factor in equipment cost, transportation (insurance, fuel, maintenance), upgrades to equipment and software, etc.  Once you've got that figure, add to it a reasonable salary for yourself.  Then, compare it to what others in your area are charging and adjust accordingly.

For prints, discs, etc. I charge materials +30% for private sale assuming I retain rights.  For commercial work, release of rights, it's negotiable (not that that aspect comes up a lot for me).


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## Mike30D

GerryDavid said:


> Call the local pro studios in your area and use their pricing as a guide. But make sure its worth your time, and if your spending to much time for the amount of money thats being charged in your area, try to figure out ways to slimline your workflow. Prices vary from area to area. Usually really expensive in major cities like nyc to alot cheaper in the country.


 

That is the worst thing you can do. You should never go by what the other guy is charging. Their prices reflect what works for their business model. You need to charge according to YOUR business model.


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## GerryDavid

Mike30D said:


> That is the worst thing you can do. You should never go by what the other guy is charging. Their prices reflect what works for their business model. You need to charge according to YOUR business model.



I did say to make it worth their while, as in their costs are covered.  

tirediron did give the best advice.  :0)  I just meant dont undercut the competition just to be the cheapest in town.


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## reg

I can't see your gallery, it asks me for a password. I'm really not willing to comment on what anybody should charge until I see some photos.


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## SpeedTrap

Mike30D said:


> That is the worst thing you can do. You should never go by what the other guy is charging. Their prices reflect what works for their business model. You need to charge according to YOUR business model.


 
Not True, it is a good place to start. Pros build alot more into there prices that other people forget about. Under pricing your product will only hurt you and make it so your new venture will fail. 

You need to know how much it cost you every time you press the shutter button.


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## philaphotog

Sorry - the password is Amanda.


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## philaphotog

And THANK YOU for advice and feedback... I have 2 potential clients to meet with over the weekend and I need to have a price quote ready.  Nerve wracking, but all in all a good "problem" to have!


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## kellylindseyphotography

The password doesn't work.  A good resource for you would be www.ilovephotography.com  It specializes in professional children's portraiture.  Though, on the free side, you cannot ask business advice, you could submit your portfolio to see if you are good enough to get onto the business side where you would learn a ton.  GL!


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## Village Idiot

Figure out how you want to charge first.

Do you want a sitting/photography fee then sell prints?

Do you want to do packages?

Do you want to do a total package that includes photography/photo?

Do you want to tell them they can't find out how much until after your done and charge them an arm and a leg then?


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## philaphotog

Here's a possibility:

Newborn package - $400 sitting fee:
Includes 2 photo shoots - one at birth, one at 4 - 6 mos
Each shoot: 1 location, 1 - 3 hours total
50 images per shoot
1 free 8 x 10 per shoot
Online hosting of images for 6 months
Then, the pictures would be moderately priced.  Maybe $5 for 4 x 6, $10 for 5 x 7, $25 for 8 x 10?

For parents whose babies are a little older, a single photo shoot (with conditions above) for $300.  (So the package deal would save parents $100 on sitting fees)

For friends, I've been putting all the images on a disk for them to print wherever they wish.  I don't think this is a good idea for professional work because then I make no money at all on prints, and I can't control the quality (what if they print a copy on a crappy home computer?  I don't want my name on that)

The "online hosting" would be my shutterfly website, which I could also use as a promotional too by inviting potential customers to visit and see my work.

To those who were not able to use the "Amanda" password - try again?  It's worked for all my "customers" so far...


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## NateS

philaphotog said:


> Here's a possibility:
> 
> Newborn package - $400 sitting fee:
> Includes 2 photo shoots - one at birth, one at 4 - 6 mos
> Each shoot: 1 location, 1 - 3 hours total
> 50 images per shoot
> 1 free 8 x 10 per shoot
> Online hosting of images for 6 months
> Then, the pictures would be moderately priced.  Maybe $5 for 4 x 6, $10 for 5 x 7, $25 for 8 x 10?
> 
> For parents whose babies are a little older, a single photo shoot (with conditions above) for $300.  (So the package deal would save parents $100 on sitting fees)
> 
> For friends, I've been putting all the images on a disk for them to print wherever they wish.  I don't think this is a good idea for professional work because then I make no money at all on prints, and I can't control the quality (what if they print a copy on a crappy home computer?  I don't want my name on that)
> 
> The "online hosting" would be my shutterfly website, which I could also use as a promotional too by inviting potential customers to visit and see my work.
> 
> To those who were not able to use the "Amanda" password - try again?  It's worked for all my "customers" so far...



I'm no pro, but Holy Crap those are some high prices (for my area at least).  $300 for a sitting fee with only 1 8x10 included......it's not high if you are absolutely incredible (which I can't verify), but for an average really good photog in my area, that's outrageous.  

No offense, but if you can't shoot enough shots to fullfill what you need of a single baby in 1 hour, then you need to work on your camera skills a bit.  

I would never put how many pictures that you will give them (i.e. 50)  What happens if you end up with only 25 good pictures.....while that may be enough to make them happy, you'd be obligated to throw another 25 junk photos into the proofs which could look bad on you.



> $5 for 4 x 6, $10 for 5 x 7, $25 for 8 x 10



You seriously think those are cheap prices?  Consider that from a high quality printer like Mpix, or Exposure manager a 4x6 is going to cost you 0.29 each, you are charging over 1500% markup on the prints.  I think closer to $2 for a 4x6, $5 for a 5x7 and $12 for an 8x10 would be more appealing.

For example I had a pro do a photoshoot of our son last year.  SHe charged $65 for the sitting fee which included 1 hour.  Deduct her expenses and she was still making probably a good $40 just for the sitting fee (I know....cheap...and she's really good).  However using the prices I gave for prints, we placed an order which came out to over $230 in prints and she probably cleared about $180 on the prints.  

So figure she cleared $180 + 65 = $245 minus 45 for expenses (and I'm shooting a little high) = $200.  It probably took her 2 hours to post process the 33 prints that we were given as proofs.  So clearing $200 in 3 hours of work puts her at about $67 an hour which is pretty good in my opinion.  

Keep in mind that we live in the country and $66/hour isn't as great in the city.  But.....she had competetive prices for the area and she's still making a decent amount.


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## philaphotog

NateS said:


> No offense, but if you can't shoot enough shots to fullfill what you need of a single baby in 1 hour, then you need to work on your camera skills a bit.



I have to disagree with this a little.  As a mother of 2 small kids myself, I know that with nap/wake cycles, mood swings (parent & adult), feeding times, etc... it can take more than one hour to get all the types of shots a client is asking for.  If you visit my gallery, you will see I do asleep, awake, naked, clothed, alone, with mom, with dad, with mom & dad, with mom, dad & sibs, etc... all in one shoot.  When you factor in siblings (toddler rage at a new sib can be quite unphotogenic) - more than an hour doesn't seem unreasonable to me.  Plus, I want clients to know that they are not going to be rushed - especially considering the amount of money they're paying!

Having said that, sometimes it takes just a short while.  My "Ben" photo shoot (on the site, again, sorry) took about 45 minutes.  I think it really depends on the family and you have to be open to any possibility.  

As for prices, I live in center city Philadelphia.  Most portrait photographers in this market charge $45 for a 4x6 in addition to a hefty sitting fee.  So the prices quoted may be ambitious, but not terribly unreasonable!    Neighbors of mine, who are NOT rich, tell me they've paid more than $1000 on similar photo shoots (cost of the sitting and the prints).

Thank you for the thoughtful response.  It was interesting to hear the perspective of someone who is both a photographer and a parent!

Best -


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## NateS

philaphotog said:


> I have to disagree with this a little.  As a mother of 2 small kids myself, I know that with nap/wake cycles, mood swings (parent & adult), feeding times, etc... it can take more than one hour to get all the types of shots a client is asking for.  If you visit my gallery, you will see I do asleep, awake, naked, clothed, alone, with mom, with dad, with mom & dad, with mom, dad & sibs, etc... all in one shoot.  When you factor in siblings (toddler rage at a new sib can be quite unphotogenic) - more than an hour doesn't seem unreasonable to me.  Plus, I want clients to know that they are not going to be rushed - especially considering the amount of money they're paying!
> 
> Having said that, sometimes it takes just a short while.  My "Ben" photo shoot (on the site, again, sorry) took about 45 minutes.  I think it really depends on the family and you have to be open to any possibility.
> 
> As for prices, I live in center city Philadelphia.  Most portrait photographers in this market charge $45 for a 4x6 in addition to a hefty sitting fee.  So the prices quoted may be ambitious, but not terribly unreasonable!    Neighbors of mine, who are NOT rich, tell me they've paid more than $1000 on similar photo shoots (cost of the sitting and the prints).
> 
> Thank you for the thoughtful response.  It was interesting to hear the perspective of someone who is both a photographer and a parent!
> 
> Best -



No offense, but if you, as a professional are going to wait for a client while they take a nap or eat, then you are bound to fail.  The client needs to schedule during a time when they have an hour uninterrupted to give you.  

Also the girl who did our photos, in 1 hour was able to get every type of shot you have in your gallery plus about 20 minutes worth of outdoor fall shooting.  Maybe she is just freakishly efficient, but I couldn't imagine having spent 3 hours for her to take photos.  Also, if I had to stop in the middle of the hour to feed the baby, I would expect that to eat part of my hour.  

Again, if you are seriously going to wait on a client to eat (baby or not) and not expect them to be ready to go, then you are gonna have a rough road to travel.

Obviously the prices would vary based on location, but what you should do is figure up how much you want to make an hour, then figure up how much you need to charge to get that after expenses.  Don't forget to count the profit of the prints as part of your charging calculations.  

Personally I'd be thrilled to make $66/hour.  At 20 hours of work a week you'd be making 66 grand a year.


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## philaphotog

NateS said:


> No offense, but if you, as a professional are going to wait for a client while they take a nap or eat, then you are bound to fail.  The client needs to schedule during a time when they have an hour uninterrupted to give you.



What can I say?  I think baby sleeping and baby breastfeeding pictures are lovely.  I really enjoy shooting them and clients love to have them.   I consider them an important part of my product as an "artist." (Sorry if the word "artist" is going to make people gag) My pleasure factor in taking these types of shots is as valuable as my time.

Your photographer sounds like Wonder Woman.  I could probably learn a lot from her.


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## Village Idiot

You can charge as much as you want as long as you can find some one that will pay for it.


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## NateS

philaphotog said:


> What can I say?  I think baby sleeping and baby breastfeeding pictures are lovely.  I really enjoy shooting them and clients love to have them.   I consider them an important part of my product as an "artist." (Sorry if the word "artist" is going to make people gag) My pleasure factor in taking these types of shots is as valuable as my time.
> 
> Your photographer sounds like Wonder Woman.  I could probably learn a lot from her.



Sorry, you gave the impresssion (I think) that you spend 3 hours because of downtime caused by naps, feedings, etc....  It's hardly downtime if you photograph such events which again makes me think that a 3 hour photoshoot for a baby is crazy.  Do what you need though and as stated above.....charge 1000 sitting fee and $200 per 4x6 if you can find someone willing to pay the prices.


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## SpeedTrap

NateS said:


> So figure she cleared $180 + 65 = $245 minus 45 for expenses (and I'm shooting a little high) = $200. It probably took her 2 hours to post process the 33 prints that we were given as proofs. So clearing $200 in 3 hours of work puts her at about $67 an hour which is pretty good in my opinion.
> 
> Keep in mind that we live in the country and $66/hour isn't as great in the city. But.....she had competetive prices for the area and she's still making a decent amount.


 
Take the 1 hour of shooting, 2 hours of PP, Time to travel to and from your home, Downloading and Backup of Images) Your 3 hours has just turned into 4-5 hours.
Not bad right, well it depends, is he doing two shoots a day or two shoots a week.

Have you factored in replacement costs if a piece of equipment breaks down before you planed on replacing it?
Did you deduct the taxes paid on the income, or the costs of doing business in the area (Fees and taxes)
How about health insurance, Retirement savings, Vacations.  The thing about being self employed is that there are many cost people dont think about.


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## Mike30D

philaphotog said:


> Here's a possibility:
> 
> Newborn package - $400 sitting fee:
> Includes 2 photo shoots - one at birth, one at 4 - 6 mos
> Each shoot: 1 location, 1 - 3 hours total
> 50 images per shoot
> 1 free 8 x 10 per shoot
> Online hosting of images for 6 months
> Then, the pictures would be moderately priced.  Maybe $5 for 4 x 6, $10 for 5 x 7, $25 for 8 x 10?
> 
> For parents whose babies are a little older, a single photo shoot (with conditions above) for $300.  (So the package deal would save parents $100 on sitting fees)
> 
> For friends, I've been putting all the images on a disk for them to print wherever they wish.  I don't think this is a good idea for professional work because then I make no money at all on prints, and I can't control the quality (what if they print a copy on a crappy home computer?  I don't want my name on that)
> 
> The "online hosting" would be my shutterfly website, which I could also use as a promotional too by inviting potential customers to visit and see my work.
> 
> To those who were not able to use the "Amanda" password - try again?  It's worked for all my "customers" so far...




WOW. If you get someone to pay that much for a sitting fee, tell me how you did it, would ya?

I've never heard of sitting fees that high before. The highest sitting fee I've ever seen is around $120

That's why prices for prints are a lot more for portraits than they are for weddings.


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