# Someone burst my bubble today



## dietCoke (Jan 28, 2011)

Hi everyone, I am new here to post but have been reading for some time. I have learned so much! 

I have a question not sure if I am placing it in the right spot but here goes...

Recently I decided to make my hobby something more. So far I haven't done much but I was kind of proud of what I have done. UNTIL....I ran into another "photographer" and they made me feel as big as a mouse. They made kind of rude comments about my "making" it in the photography world with my equipment. Well, to be honest, I thought I had some pretty decent gear that works well for me. I'm not saying I wouldn't upgrade one day but it's what I have.  I am using a Canon T1I with a variety of lenses. This other photographer all but laughed and said how she started out using a Canon rebel xt and can't believe she had the nerve to do it when now she has a Mark II or III??? I just heard WAH WAH WAH WAH (like the teacher in Peanuts cartoon) after so long of hearing her go on and on. So just when I was going to get my website up and tell people about my new venture/hobby....I feel my bubble was burst. 

Now I think everyone is judging my skills based on my equipment. Seriously am I fool to try to have a small business with my gear? Please tell me, I feel crushed. Oh yeah, did I mention she was very "smirky" if that's a word. I know, I know....get thick skin right?! but I don't want to feel like I'm cheating customers if they expect me to show up with really big gear. I actually love my Canon.  I love photography. 

Thanks for listening!!


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## Trever1t (Jan 28, 2011)

Obviously the other 'photographer' is nothing more than an uneducated pompous [insert expletive].

It's not the gear, it's the eyes that make a pro...gear won't make a bad eye look good but it will enhance a good eye


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## ghache (Jan 28, 2011)

You can probably do fine with the gear you have depending on the job your about to do. 

If your doing jobs that required alot more quality/faster equipement and you dont have whats needed. you are in for a big faceplant.


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## Robin Usagani (Jan 28, 2011)

It is true.. it is the photographer not the gear.. BUT......

It is true that you will find more bad photographers with consumer camera and lenses. It is kinda like stereotyping. Thats the way it is. 

I have seen some freaking nice photos on this forum taken with kit lens and consumer grade dslr.


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## RauschPhotography (Jan 28, 2011)

Schwettylens said:


> It is true.. it is the photographer not the gear.. BUT......
> 
> It is true that you will find more bad photographers with consumer camera and lenses. It is kinda like stereotyping. Thats the way it is.
> 
> I have seen some freaking nice photos on this forum taken with kit lens and consumer grade dslr.



True. Who knows what the other guys has taken pictures of, anyways. Does it matter what he says to say in the long run? No. Do what you do best, and forget what that prick has to say.


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## KmH (Jan 28, 2011)

Few customers know or care about camera gear. They wouldn't know a T1i from a 5D MKII, from a D3x.

Even then, they have no knowledge of what makes a good photograph - technically (exposure, separation, white balance, composition), with the likely exception of focus. They usually know blurry when they see it.

They have to much emotional involvement with the photo.

The single biggest gear fail most new photographers make, is not having lighting gear and trying to shoot everything using only available light.


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## Stephen.C (Jan 28, 2011)

I gotta agree wih KmH, although I wouldn't be a prick about it, some stuff does depend on your gear. 
I'm going to get a new camera before I attempt to get into the game. I absolutely wouldnt try with my kit lens, which I plan on to replace next week with a 17-50 2.8 The D3000 can't handle alot of things, especially noise wise, and I know for a fact I wouldn't hire a photographer with a D3000, I wouldn't hire myself unless it was outdoors in the daylight hahah, let alone a concert! 
Portrait wise, I have a flash, but I dont have a softbox / umbrella though......

Gear isnt everything, but some gear does have its limits.


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## Derrel (Jan 28, 2011)

How well can you shoot? How well can Ms. Busybody shoot? I've seen "pros" using Nikon D60s at weddings...and they were mostly inept shooters, judging by the photos I saw later. It would not have mattered if they had D3x's...their pics still woulda' been substandard.


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## thatfornoobs (Jan 28, 2011)

I think you would do fine with that stuff. Your friend is an example of somebody full of themselves.


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## Josh66 (Jan 28, 2011)

thatfornoobs said:


> I think you would do fine with that stuff. Your friend is an example of somebody full of themselves.




Yes.


OMG...  You're using a ****ing T1i?   _I_ started with an XT...  :lmao:



The fact that she started with an XT, means that it wasn't all that long ago when she started.  I just think it's funny that after 5 years or so, she's all holier than thou and all that ****.    Ignore her and move on.


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## oldmacman (Jan 28, 2011)

Why not post your web site, or at least some pics for critique?


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## LokiZ (Jan 28, 2011)

As long as your gear doesn't get you killed beating the competition, then what ever works for you. John Henry (folklore) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 

It would be one thing if photography was a no artistic, no creativity needed operation, but as it stands it is not that simple and that is where we get varying degrees of work quality. (meaning better hardware is no guarantee) At some point nearly everyone will come to a point where they truly could do better work with better equipment sure.  But the point at which that happens is entirely a personal judgment call in my opinion.  As others have stated there are skills in photography that can quicker kill a shot more so then not having the best equipment.

The stupid person you encountered actually whether you or they know it or not was, in there unintelligent bliss, giving you a compliment.  Think about it.  For them to continuously harp on the importance of the hardware they use opposed to the hardware you use, one can only come to one conclusion.  Their photography is only better then yours due to the hardware they use.  Hmmm, that is something to be proud of.  And this is despite the fact that they have been shooting longer then you?  So that my friend compliments you in the fact that you have learned up to their level in a shorter amount of time and the only thing "holding you back" is the model number of your camera and lens.  

I have faith that you see how silly their thinking is, how it discredits them as viable resource in this area.  It doesn't require thick skin when you see that the truth is that they just don't know the truth.  It requires thick skin when you find out there are things you really do need to do in order to improve that you have not been doing.  This does not seem to be one of those times. (as far as your choice in hardware)

Sample work should be what sells you to your customers, not what made your sample work.  Portfolio portfolio portfolio.  ...then if they do know equipment it can be "you took these with that?" and that will be all that becomes of it.

Just my three cents (three not two because I tend to be a bit wordy) It's a curse.


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## dietCoke (Jan 28, 2011)

Thanks everyone! I needed that.  Like I said, I'm new here never posted an image before and still working on getting a website together. I just put one up on Flikr. But this web forum won't let me post a link since I am new and under 5 posts. Can you all IM me and would I be able to give you the link that way???

Keep in mind, I literally grabbed my child out of the chair just about an hour ago and had him "pretend" he was doing a "senior shot" just so I could see if I had any saving grace.  He was much more interested in xbox and was not a happy camper. LOL!!! So this is my on the fly shot. Please be honest but gentle.....


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## Josh66 (Jan 28, 2011)

Just hit the 'New Posts' button and reply to 3 of them.


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## dietCoke (Jan 28, 2011)

Be right back


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## Patrice (Jan 28, 2011)

I'm going to be overly simplistic here, there are photographers and then there are gear geeks. When photographers with a respect for the craft talk to one another the discussions don't linger on the gear other than 'hey, I have one of those. How do you like it? I find I have a bit of a problem when I try this .... function. Got any ideas on what's going on?' They don't denigrate another's choice of equipment.

Interesting discussions worth engaging in will deal with technique, successes and failures, marketing, business development and management, ... etc

Next time some 'photographer' denigrates your choice of gear just go 'whatever' and walk away while commenting on the last crop of potatoes in Main.


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## dietCoke (Jan 28, 2011)

So true!!!! Thank you!


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## dietCoke (Jan 28, 2011)

Ok here goes the link..... (but remember, please be gentle....not only did my child begrugdingly go out with me to take this "senior shot"....it was my first ever "senior shot"...okay, enough I know!! I'm so nervous, here it is in it's raw form...


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## Josh66 (Jan 28, 2011)

Not too bad.  His hair is a little over exposed, but I guess that's bound to happen with blonds...

I think the composition could use a little work...   I personally would have put him more on the right side of the frame.  Actually, if it were me - I probably would have shot it in portrait orientation.

What I would have done:
Take a step or two to the left to get that tree completely out of the frame, and compose in portrait orientation.  Maybe take a knee so that he appears bigger/taller and get rid of the blown out grass at the same time.


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## maruffner (Jan 28, 2011)

I have a Nikon D60 and done a wedding with it. The customers loved there pictures so much they are coming back all the time wanting just because pictures. Its not only what you have its how you use it and what you use it for. If your happy and you listen and give your customer what they want thats all that matters is theyre happy right?


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## dnavarrojr (Jan 29, 2011)

People who feel threatened often choose to lash out by denigrating whomever they feel threatened by.  Where I am, there is a glut of photographers (always seems to happen in a recession, everyone with a camera fancy's themselves a photographer and hangs a shingle) and the competition is fierce.  Photographers who were friendly a year or two ago are rude and sometimes just plain mean if you're not the client.

I went to a friend's wedding with my equipment just to shoot pics from my seat. I had no plans to wander around and act like I was the hired photographer, because I wasn't.  But the instant the hired photographer saw my equipment, he read me the riot act about how amateurs should stay out of his way because I'll ruin the bride's wedding. He didn't say Hello first, he didn't ask me anything, he just immediately attacked me.

Suffice to say that when I told the groom (one of my best friends) what happened, the photographer was fired.  Fortunately, I know some good wedding photographers and was able to get one to come shoot the wedding last minute.


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## BKMOOD (Jan 29, 2011)

Legendary photographs have been taken with cameras far less sophisticated than today&#8217;s basic point and shoot. It&#8217;s not so much the tool but the talent -- your talent.

It is YOU that will make you a great photographer, not your gear. The angle you choose, the subjects you choose, the moment you capture and so forth is not about gear, it's about the artist -- and that's you. No one ever got a Pulitzer for their gear. No editor ever said: "Jesus, did you see the super camera the guy took this picture with! We gotta buy this!"

I turn blue in the face (hard for a black guy) trying to explain this to young photographers but they remained convinced they need the latest and greatest nuclear DSLR to become a great photographer. I don&#8217;t even bother with those conversations anymore.


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## simonydes (Jan 29, 2011)

i agree with everyone else its really not the equipment its the photographers eye but equipment does make difference. You have to decide what kind of shots your camera can handle and continue from there. post some of your pictures =)


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## waynegz1 (Jan 29, 2011)

The first 2 weddings I shot were with a D60.  The way I see it (as does everyone else on this thread) is that if you are comfortable with your gear, know your gear inside and out- it doesn't matter if you are shooting with a D3s or a D40.  I mean, the more $$ the camera, the better it handles things. 

As long as you are out of AUTO mode, then you can capture awesome images.


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## oldmacman (Jan 29, 2011)

dietCoke said:


> Ok here goes the link..... (but remember, please be gentle....not only did my child begrugdingly go out with me to take this "senior shot"....it was my first ever "senior shot"...okay, enough I know!! I'm so nervous, here it is in it's raw form...
> 
> Flickr: GameDayProduction.com's Photostream



Nice pic. Good composition and nice control over DOF. As O|||||||O points out, it would be nice to maintain some detail in the hair.


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## Formatted (Jan 29, 2011)

> As long as you are out of AUTO mode, then you can capture awesome images.



Very true!


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## dietCoke (Jan 29, 2011)

Thanks for all the tips and advice! 

Good point about the hair. I was shooting in manual. His hair is so tricky and the least bit of sun hits it and it's a complete whiteout. He actually has lots of texture and curls to that hair (he needs a haircut, usually has a crew cut) but I agree would be nice to see it. 

About the other photographer, you all are right. Oh well, what's that saying? C'est la vie!!! And you know what I'm going to start looking up some more lenses and see which kind I need to get. For portraits like this what do you all use. I shot that with a a 55-250.  I'm thinking I need a 70-200?? Any advice on that or maybe I will start a new post about a lens choice. 

Many thanks again for all your thoughts!!


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## Josh66 (Jan 29, 2011)

dietCoke said:


> For portraits like this what do you all use. [...]  I'm thinking I need a 70-200??


For portraits, my 70-200 and my 85 1.8 are pretty much my go-to lenses.

They're both great lenses.  You can't really go wrong with either.

The 70-200 L's ... I have the f/4, non-IS version - from everything I've seen they are all pretty much equal, optically.  Pretty sure the 70-200 f/4 L is the cheapest L lens offered.  And it _is_ worthy of the 'L' designation.

The 85 1.8 is also 'L-like' quality.


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## Croissant Seven (Jan 30, 2011)

dnavarrojr said:


> I went to a friend's wedding with my equipment just to shoot pics from my seat. I had no plans to wander around and act like I was the hired photographer, because I wasn't.  But the instant the hired photographer saw my equipment, he read me the riot act about how amateurs should stay out of his way because I'll ruin the bride's wedding. He didn't say Hello first, he didn't ask me anything, he just immediately attacked me.



I would have followed that photographer around taking pictures of him, but I love taking things completely over the top.


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## RockstarPhotography (Jan 30, 2011)

I had a gear buff do that to me once too.  I decided to play dumb and started asking him tons of questions....What does the a s p m on this dial mean?  what are the numbers for?  why won't the camera focus?  How much do you think I can sell these pictures for?  I followed him around for 3 hours just bombarding him with dumb questions.

Did I look like an idiot.....ya.......Was it worth it........Hell ya


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## skieur (Jan 30, 2011)

I don't think that it is possible to generalize in either direction related to the importance of gear.  It really depends on what you are shooting and in what area you wish to make your reputation.

I would not want to use a T1i to do important studio work for a magazine, but for senior photos, weddings, or shooting kids at a party, it is certainly useable. 

Lenses are also very important in some areas. A tilt-shift lens or a fast, excellent wide angle prime or zoom is almost a requirement for real estate photography.

Sports and wild life photography are best with long, fast, expensive lenses although if you are in the right location even a compact camera camera with fixed lens can do a great job with some sports and some wild life situations.

By the way, some pros replace at least one camera body, every 3 years, others rent for some jobs, and still others feel that for the long term it is best to buy the most expensive camera with expensive lenses. All of these approaches make sense to me.

skieur


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## BKMOOD (Jan 30, 2011)

Thinking back, I had some gear snob try to pull that crap with his high end DSLR...

I pulled out my 40-year old Pentax Spotmatic (some days I have to shoot old school film). I told him after 40 years it still works. Will his camera still be working in 40 years? Doubt it. Then I told him if we used the same quality lenses, I can probably match his picture quality. His camera cost $2000.00, mine cost $50.

He mumbled something I couldn't hear and left.


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## skieur (Jan 30, 2011)

BKMOOD said:


> Thinking back, I had some gear snob try to pull that crap with his high end DSLR...
> 
> I pulled out my 40-year old Pentax Spotmatic (some days I have to shoot old school film). I told him after 40 years it still works. Will his camera still be working in 40 years? Doubt it. Then I told him if we used the same quality lenses, I can probably match his picture quality. His camera cost $2000.00, mine cost $50.
> 
> He mumbled something I couldn't hear and left.


 
Cost is not overly relevant to a pro that is doing reasonably well, since he/she can write it off as a business expense and I don't know any pro who expects or wants to be working with the same camera in 40 years.

Gear types are part of photography. Don't take them too seriously.

skieur


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## BKMOOD (Jan 30, 2011)

You clearly missed the entire point I was trying to make.  LOL.


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## dietCoke (Jan 30, 2011)

Ok, I just posted under the equipment section looking for advice but it says the page will not load every time I try to see my post. Thought I would post a condensed question here since I already mentioned it and it is somewhat on topic.

I am looking to get different lenses and maybe just maybe a new camera too. I really do like Canon if that makes a difference. 

Currently have: Canon T1I
                      18-55, EFS 55-250mm, 300 f2.8L (love/hate relationship -long story)

What equipment should I look into for doing outdoor portraits of kids, seniors and possibly food photography?  By what I can tell most people are using f2.8 70-200? for portraits and macro lenses for food? 

Thanks again for any advice, I sure could use it.


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## skieur (Jan 30, 2011)

dietCoke said:


> Ok, I just posted under the equipment section looking for advice but it says the page will not load every time I try to see my post. Thought I would post a condensed question here since I already mentioned it and it is somewhat on topic.
> 
> I am looking to get different lenses and maybe just maybe a new camera too. I really do like Canon if that makes a difference.
> 
> ...


 
Rent the T2i and compare it with what you have now.  Reviews indicate that it is much better without being really costly.  

For outdoor portraits of kids and seniors the 18-55 is great if you are working in fairly close and it is a 2.8.  Don't get too close, or you will be dealing with distortion.  The 2.8 70-200 is great for blurring out the background and backing off a little.  Working too far toward 200mm may however "flatten" the look of a face which you may not want to do, unless your subject has a long nose for example.

Food photography works best with lots of lighting/strobes and perhaps even reflectors, along with with excellent quality, expensive medium focal length lenses. I would rent a Hasselblad or Leica S2 medium format digital for that type of work.

skieur


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## dietCoke (Jan 30, 2011)

Thanks for the advice! I chose the T1i over the T2i at the time, T1i was a great deal as the T2i just came out. However, I am looking to bump it up even one more level if I were to get a new camera. 

But your ideas give me new thoughts as far as lens for portraits and food. I also was reading a lot about the Lensbaby. Not sure how I feel about that lens, I swear some pictures I look at taken with this lens on here make me dizzy.


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## FattyMcJ (Jan 31, 2011)

dietCoke said:


> Ok here goes the link..... (but remember, please be gentle....not only did my child begrugdingly go out with me to take this "senior shot"....it was my first ever "senior shot"...okay, enough I know!! I'm so nervous, here it is in it's raw form...



I won't comment on the photo itself, others have already nailed it.

What I will comment on is your lack of confidence.  How you perceive yourself will be reflected in how others see you as a "pro".  If you're shy, timid, and constantly need positive feedback on your work...you won't make it long, and "customers" won't be confident in their choice of you as their photographer. 

Be more confident! 

Also, yes, you need to have a thicker skin.  Photography is, after all, an art.  No matter if you're Ansel Adams or not, some people just won't like it.  That's the way it goes.  Buck up, you know you did your best with what you have (both gear and knowledge) and that's all there is. You can't control whether or not everyone will like it.


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## Croissant Seven (Jan 31, 2011)

FattyMcJ said:


> dietCoke said:
> 
> 
> > Ok here goes the link..... (but remember, please be gentle....not only did my child begrugdingly go out with me to take this "senior shot"....it was my first ever "senior shot"...okay, enough I know!! I'm so nervous, here it is in it's raw form...
> ...



Don't forget that timeless axiom: you ain't somebody until somebody hates you.:mrgreen:

I discovered this when I was in graphic design classes. I'd work my butt off in Illustrator for hours to get something right, and I'd present it and it would get lambasted...by the same crew of kids, every time, which would have been fine if it wasn't silly stuff like "So would you wear that on your hoodie?" or "Yeah, my mom does similar stuff in Paint". Yet the professor would give me A's on all my work. I eventually realized it was the kids who didn't "get" graphic design that would slather on the hatred, and it showed in their art. The biggest way I could return the snub: sit quietly and not say anything about their work in the critiques. Most of the class did this to avoid this clique's ire, I sat there and smiled at them with my hands behind my head, and said "I got nothin'"

Thinking back, they were all hipsters with fixie bikes and beards, but that's another story altogether.

Now, on web forums, it's quite a bit different, because you can skip right over the baseless criticism and get right to what's real. For every clown that replies to your CC thread with "Sucks, hate it, lame.", you get 3 or 4 guys with genuine, constructive criticism, and the experience to back it up.


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## Hannah Webster (Jan 31, 2011)

I have been working as a photographer part time over the past 6 years and have finally decided to give up my other job and go at it full time! Very scary! 

I started with quite ameture kit, and found some jobs difficult because of this, but over these past years I have put the money I have earnt from my photography back in to my photographic kit.

I now have the required kit to go pro full time - I don't have all the top of the range stuff, but enough stuff to do most of the jobs I'm asked to do. I will still save up to improve my kit as I go along!

I know that was a very "me me me" post, but thought my story might help inspire?!

Good luck!


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## ryderwylde (Feb 1, 2011)

Ok, I haven't read the whole thread but I would like to chime in here.

First off, I have to say gear IS important. Although no what camera you use. The most essential item is your lenses and you lights. Cheap crappy lenses will not give you good results. Lights are even more important IMO. You can photograph without lights but you will be severely limited in when/where you can shoot due to the sun or being too dark and the like.

Do a search on youtube for iphone photoshoot and find the video by fstoppers. Fantastic quality images all using an iPhone and some lights!


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## iSee (Feb 1, 2011)

Trever1t said:


> Obviously the other 'photographer' is nothing more than an uneducated pompous [insert expletive].
> 
> It's not the gear, it's the eyes that make a pro...gear won't make a bad eye look good but it will enhance a good eye



qft


ryderwylde: I've shot with 1 lens for nearly a year now through multiple weddings and events ...and I never stopped improving. You can be successful with 1 lens if you've got it. It is not about the gear. Better gear makes a good photographer great, not a bad photographer good. Its best to master 1 lens at a time in my eyes. I've just recently ordered my next lens, a 50mm 1.8. I plan to spend months with only this new lens on my camera, not touching anything else until I feel experienced with it


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## Josh66 (Feb 1, 2011)

I've seen that video...



ryderwylde said:


> Fantastic quality images all using an iPhone and some lights!


If I remember correctly, it looked to be about $10,000 in lighting equipment - not to mention the PRO models, PRO PP guys, PRO hair and makeup, pretty much pro everything, lol.

A little more went into it than just having some lights.


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## FattyMcJ (Feb 1, 2011)

O|||||||O said:


> I've seen that video...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah, I've seen that video too...that PRO retoucher had his work cut out for him on those photos.  A testament to how valuable PP work really is.


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## Natred (Feb 6, 2011)

In my opinion, I think this other photographer was just trying to talk you out of going pro because she doesn't want the competition.  I use a canon rebel XTi and have since I started 5 years ago. I consider myself a professional and so do others. I'm not proud of what I shoot with but I have perfected it and it works great for me. Plus I don't have the money to get one of the fancy camera anyway, although I would LOVE LOVE LOVE one.   It shouldn't matter if you have a point and shoot or a Canon mark II or III, all that matters is that you know how to work your equipment.  Don't worry!!! Keep shooting and don't let ANYONE get you down. There is always going to be someone out there that will try and put you down. It's all a matter of opinion and everyone has one. 

Happy Shooting!!


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## GerryDavid (Feb 6, 2011)

dietCoke said:


> For portraits like this what do you all use. I shot that with a a 55-250.  I'm thinking I need a 70-200?? Any advice on that or maybe I will start a new post about a lens choice.
> 
> Many thanks again for all your thoughts!!



My favorite lens for portraits is the 24-70mm F2.8L.  I try to stay in the 70mm range because its more flattering to women but sometimes the 24mm comes in pretty hand, especially indoors.  Before that I was content with my 50mm F1.8 and 85mm F1.8 other than having to take the time to change lenses.

I started out with the XT and I would still be happy with it, but I got the T2i last summer and I love the larger screen on it, so its hard to go back and use the other one.  And from my experience, people do not notice a difference between an entry level DSLR or a higher up one.  Add the battery grip on the entry level one and they would probably guess its a better camera than a 5D.


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## ornedbeef (Feb 8, 2011)

Photographer = Technician
                      Artist
                      Technical Artist
The best are all of these the rest are a samall mix of all three
She sounds like a technician
The final image comes from your eye not your wallet


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## mortovismo (Feb 8, 2011)

I bought what little "gear" I have on Ebay  :meh:


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## Cinka (Feb 17, 2011)

I had a similar experience. Years ago, a photographer (female) laughed at my camera. I realized, she was right. Not that I couldn't take good photos with it, I could...I realized that in order to "appear" professional, you have to have professional looking gear. Doesn't make me a better or worse photographer, but it gives clients confidence in knowing at least I look like I know what I'm doing. Would you pay $300 for a portrait session done with a point and shoot? I wouldn't. UNLESS....this photographer was known for their *amazing* point and shoot work and that was their thing.


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## GerryDavid (Feb 17, 2011)

But she was laughing at him for using an entry level dslr, and when you put a battery grip on the entry level, most people *non photographers, and even then* cant tell the difference between that and a full frame dslr.  Unless they look at the model number and if they are not familiar with the different models then its all the same to them.

I probably cant tell the difference between an entry level nikon and the top level, no clue what the model numbers are.  The only way I can probably tell from the front is if there is a slight size difference.


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