# Considering returning my Canon T3...



## mev1205 (Jan 12, 2013)

Hey everyone, first post on the forum. I saw another post recently about the Canon T3 and thought I would make my own thread so as not to hijack his. 

I recently got a T3 for Christmas as a bundle with a camera bag, 8gb card, 18-55mm IS lens, and 75-300mm lens all for around ~$540, tax included. I'm a beginner DSLR user, and for shelling out this type of money I want to make sure that I'm buying the best product for the money. 

Now I got the bundle for a great price, but what concerns me is that image quality of the T3 itself might be subpar to similar products. I've taken some pictures that have turned out great, but others (especially at night, where it doesn't seem to do so well) haven't turned out that well and seem to produce alot of noise. In addition, I've been told that the 75-300mm lens isn't that great because you need IS to get a good shot at that distance, so that's not the greatest selling factor on the bundle.

I go back to college on Sunday across the country and I'd like to make a decision before then on whether or not to return this. I'd like to spend less than $700 (less if possible, money is precious in college), including tax/shipping/decent camera bag/8gb SD card, and I've been considering a few options, including the T3i, T2i (why is this more expensive than the T3i?), Nikon D3200, and the Nikon D5100. I've looked at all the various reviews but they seem to meld together after awhile, so if anyone could provide some feedback as to whether or not I should keep/return the bundle I'd love to hear it, thanks.


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## Tony S (Jan 12, 2013)

Keep the camera and learn how to use it.  All the problems you bring up can be handled by learning to use the camera.

 Noise can be reduced by not using too high of an ISO and getting the exposure correct, you might have to use a tripod to stabilize the camera for longer exposures.

  IS is not is not needed to get good shots at distance, it only helps eliminate small camera movements.  Shutter speed, exposure, and good holding skills will get you good distance shots. Again, if you cannot hand hold it still enough or get the shutter speeds fast enough a tripod is a life saver.


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## mev1205 (Jan 12, 2013)

Tony S said:


> Keep the camera and learn how to use it.  All the problems you bring up can be handled by learning to use the camera.
> 
> Noise can be reduced by not using too high of an ISO and getting the exposure correct, you might have to use a tripod to stabilize the camera for longer exposures.
> 
> IS is not is not needed to get good shots at distance, it only helps eliminate small camera movements.  Shutter speed, exposure, and good holding skills will get you good distance shots. Again, if you cannot hand hold it still enough or get the shutter speeds fast enough a tripod is a life saver.



Hi Tony,

I understand what you're saying, but I still feel that the T3 might be a bit dated. Looks like the T4i is $649.00 with no tax and free 2-day shipping at Amazon, would that be worth returning the T3 kit for $540 and spending the extra $110 on that instead?


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## pgriz (Jan 12, 2013)

It's your money.  However, the differences between cameras you are considering is not very great.   Good Hi-iso performance requires cameras that are at least 2-3x what you are paying (and that's for the body only).  So if you are planning to shoot in challenging conditions (low light, fast action, moving subjects, extreme closeup or extreme telephoto), then you need better gear.  For regular shooting (snapshots, family shots, close-ups, etc. in good light), pretty much any camera will work.   The biggest determinant in the quality of your images, will be your ability to "see" translated via your technical skill to controlling the camera and any accessories (flash, tripod, etc.).   So, I'll echo TonyS.  Keep the camera and learn to use it well.  At the present time, you don't know what you don't know.  That's normal.  But it takes time and practice to learn enough to be able to ask intelligent questions.  Those will be guided partly by the type of shooting you do (or learn that you enjoy doing).  The gear you will want when shooting nightclubs, will be quite different from that if you decided to shoot birds and nature at a distance.  The accessories you will need if you get to do more studio-style stuff, is again very different from what you'd want if you're into street photography.  But underlying all that is an understanding of light, shadow, composition, the trade-offs between ISO/shutter speed/Aperture, and so on.


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## dmunsie (Jan 13, 2013)

Unless I'm not understanding the current pricing structure, you just got one hell of a deal on that bundle. My search showed similar packages 200.00 more. I did see used prices in that range, so you may want to make sure it's new. Otherwise The t3i & t4i are fairly similar and will give you the same end result. The t4i has better video support if that's a concern. If you're 100% new to photography, the t3i is a perfect camera to learn with. Just put it on auto and point and click, you can actually take fantastic photos right out of the box! As you learn more about photography the t3i has several modes to allow you to take control of the photo. Shutter speed, iso, aperture, etc, etc. Technically you'll find the 18mp resolution as good as it gets in that price range, even the superior (and much more expensive) 7D has the same mp rating. So...take comfort in the fact that you have a great camera.  Learn all you can about your t3i, all of the tools you learn on your t3i will be transferable to any camera upgrade you make in the next couple of years. Start shooting!

edit: jeesh - I mis-read the op. I thought he had a t3i, not just a t3. Yah..I think I would at least go with a t3i setup.


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## manaheim (Jan 13, 2013)

In photography you get what you pay for almost every time.  If you exchange it for something else, it will be essentially on-par with what you turned in.  It may be stronger in this or that area, but overall it will be about the same.

Don't drive yourself mad with it.  Just shoot with it and learn.  Someday you'll be good enough to see the true limitations of your camera AND have a  better sense of what YOUR needs are, and then you can make a more educated purpose.  Until then, a good all purpose camera like the T3 is fine.


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## cgipson1 (Jan 13, 2013)

Keep the T3, learn to shoot... upgrade later. It is not the camera holding you back... it is the lack of knowledge at your current level.


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## Justman1020 (Jan 13, 2013)

I have a little different of an opinion. 

The t3 in my mind is a dated camera. It's missing a lot, it's a 12 mp camera to where the t3i and t4i are 18. 
It doesn't have a swivel screen. 
The 75-300 is considered a bad lens by many. 

My opinion? Return it. Get Atleast a t3i and a 55-250 with is. Best buy has that package for 750$. You won't have a bag, or a memory card at that price, but you can get a class 10 8 gig card for 10$ at best buy. 
Look for the lowepro traveller 150 backpack b&h has it for 40$ it's a great backpack bag that will hold plenty of gear. This puts you at about 800$. Yes it's 100$ more then you wanted to spend, but you will be able to do a lot more with a t3i. This is just my opinion on your situation. I agree a lot of your errors can be corrected with knowledge but at the same time you would be better off having a better camera in the end. Why cheap yourself now, just to spend more later?

A lot of people are going to say oh well they are just gonna buy a even better camera down the road...so why do it now?
because the features of the t3i will help you do a lot more. 

Just my two cents.


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## manaheim (Jan 13, 2013)

Justman1020 said:


> I have a little different of an opinion.
> 
> The t3 in my mind is a dated camera. It's missing a lot, it's a 12 mp camera to where the t3i and t4i are 18.
> It doesn't have a swivel screen.
> ...



So your DIFFERENCE of opinion amounts to "spend more money".

I do believe I said "you get what you pay for", did I not?  

Certainly you can get better with more money, but I get the impression that OP was regarding $540 as quite a bit of money, so I imagine 50% more would be a fairly significant increase.


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## cgipson1 (Jan 13, 2013)

Justman1020 said:


> I have a little different of an opinion.
> 
> The t3 in my mind is a dated camera. It's missing a lot, it's a 12 mp camera to where the t3i and t4i are 18.
> It doesn't have a swivel screen.
> ...



if he is going to upgrade... then why not a 5D MkIII or a 1DX? Oh... because of budget! He can learn just as well on a T3 as anything else.... So I disagree with you!


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## texkam (Jan 13, 2013)

Learning why your camera does the things it is doing is the first step in helping you to improve your images.


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## WesternGuy (Jan 13, 2013)

While the T3 is a dated camera, I would tend to agree with those who suggest that you spend the time and learn to use your camera.  Trading it for another is probably not going to solve your current situation.  Read the manual with your camera in hand and experiment with it.  There are lots of reasons for a high noise image and ISO setting is just one of them.  I would encourage you to have a look at one of the many books that have been published as aftermarket "User Manuals" for the T3, for example, Canon EOS Rebel T3/1100D For Dummies (For Dummies (Computer/Tech)): Julie Adair King, Robert Correll: Amazon.com: Books looks like a great field guide for your camera.  You can also use forums such as this one to post questions regarding problems or concerns you have.  There are a lot of very knowledgeable people here who are only too willing to help you.

Having said that, Justman does make a valid point, in my opinion.  The questions to ask yourself - Can I afford the "upgrade"? and - Is it going to solve my problem? Only you know the answer to these.  Regardless, get your self a good "guide" to whatever camera you decide on.  You can search Amazon for your camera make and model.  Most user manuals that come with the camera are good to tell you how the features work, but they do not go far enough in helping a beginner, such as yourself, really learn what the camera is all about and how to make effective use of all of its features. Then spend the time to learn how your camera works - you are not going to do this overnight, in a week or even a month.  When I bought my first digital camera about 5 years ago, it probably took me 6 months to feel comfortable with it and I had been shooting film for decades prior to that.  My 0.02¢ FWIW.

WesternGuy


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## jjphotos (Jan 13, 2013)

My advice- Save the $110 on the T3i and buy the 50mm f/1.8 lens.


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## Overread (Jan 13, 2013)

If you think the camera is lacking have a look here:
JuzaPhoto - Juza

check the first photo and others - the camera used is listed under - that Mandarin duck is taken with a 350D - that is an even older camera than the one you are using - looks pretty good don't it 



The camera DOES have limitations, but ALL cameras have them and at present improving the hardware won't give you much of a gain in the price bracket that you're looking at. In fact chances are you'll get exactly the same problems as you are now as the most major problem is your own use of the tool rather than the tool itself.

At present what you need to do is keep the camera and work upon learning how to use it - post up photos and get critique, read books and web articles, watch youtube videos etc... Learn how to use the camera and you'll find many of the limitations you have now won't be a problem; furthermore as you learn you'll also equip yourself with a much better understanding of the real world application of the camera and its features, so any future purchases will be much easier for you to make. 

Have a read on the how to get critique link in my signature below and post up some photos with details in threads; we've a wealth of photographers on the forums here willing to take time to give you guidance, to show where you've gone wrong and who can suggest corrections. 




As a few starting points:

1) Noise. It's true that using high ISOs will increase the amount of noise in a photo, however underexposure also causes noise. If you take a photo at a low ISO and it comes out dark and then you edit that photo to increase the  brightness in those dark areas, you will see even more noise than if you'd taken the photo at a higher ISO and gotten a brighter (better) exposure. Read up on the concept of "expose to the right" and upon how to review and use a histogram and you'll find much more info on this topic. 
I would also suggest setting your ISO to ISO 400 when shooting in anything but the brightest conditions and also setting it to 800 if shooting action and 1600 if shooting indoors in low light without flash support. Those might seem like high values, but it's a major mistake many beginners make to keep their ISO on 100 when they start. You not only need to learn how to work with higher ISOs and noise, but also capping yourself to only 100 early on hinders you in other areas (blurry shots from a slow shutter speed and dark shots in dimmer lighting). Adapt to shooting on the higher ISOs and to a thinking of lowering it when the conditions allow you to. 

2) IS is not needed for long distance shooting - in fact its not needed at all on any lens. It's a fantastic boon to have but it is not "needed". With your lens you can already shoot good quality long distance shots at the 300mm end by using proper methodology when shooting, including:

a) Using the rule of thumb for shutter speeds an focal length which states that your slowest shutter speed should be 1/focal length of the lens when hand holding. So for a 300mm lens you need at least 1/300sec and ideally faster to get a sharp shot when hand holding the lens (this is the same for a cheap all the way up to the pro end lenses - in fact with those heavier lenses the pro lenses have often even higher shutter speed demands).

b) Using support when shooting - leaning on a wall or fence - using a monopod or tripod - these help a lot as steadying yourself when shooting reduces the amount of shake. 

c) Shoot with good posture - legs braced apart, camera held up firm to your face, lens held firm underneath the barrel by your left hand. A good posture will help you a lot, just as a bad posture will hinder you a lot. Have a watch of this video here:


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## pascal.media (Jan 14, 2013)

jjphotos said:


> My advice- Save the $110 on the T3i and buy the 50mm f/1.8 lens.



I agree.  With the F/1.8 aperture of the 50mm lens, you will be able to get correct exposure in dim light while keeping the ISO low enough as to reduce noise to the point where it's not a problem anymore.

And as other have stated, the T3i or T4i do not fare much better than the T3 in terms of noise.


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## Danmunro_nz (Jan 14, 2013)

I'd say keep it and learn how to use it properly. I own an EOS 1000D, or Rebel XS. It come with the 18-55 and 75-300 lenses. I also brought a 50mm 1.8. It may only be 10.1 megapixel but after shooting with for 2 years now I am getting some great images from it. I do not think having a higher spec camera makes much difference. It's not all about megapixels. It's more about learning to get the best out of what you have got. 

Others may disagree, but that's my opinion.


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## Justman1020 (Jan 14, 2013)

cgipson1 said:


> Justman1020 said:
> 
> 
> > I have a little different of an opinion.
> ...



The OP said they could spend around 700$ though, so with that in mind, why not take those few steps forward?


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## cgipson1 (Jan 14, 2013)

Justman1020 said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> > Justman1020 said:
> ...



Because he would be better off spending it on better glass.. or a flash... than a fancier body!


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## Overread (Jan 14, 2013)

I agree with cgipson1 - early on the lens and lighting that you use is nearly always going to give you far far more for your money than a new camera body (of the same sensor/film size) will. Yes new bodies have improvements, but honestly when you're starting out those advantages are quite minor and, for most people, won't give you much gain (and some won't give much at all if not also paired with good lenses and lighting to take advantage of those improved features*)

The only time I advocate a user changing the camera body early is when they want to change the format they are working with. Using a larger or smaller sensor/film size changes quite a bit and as a result its best to make this change as soon as feasibly possible. Otherwise glass and lighting will net the beginner far better gains. 

Heck myself I spent out several £1000 before I upgraded my camera from a 400D rebel series body and I don't regret that one bit, those lenses and flash units I bought worked (and still work) fantastically on that camera and delivered great results - the new body lets me do a bit more, but I unlocked far more potential from the rebel with those support items. 

* a good example is AF speed. A higher end camera might be able to control AF faster, but unless you've got a lens fitted with an AF motor that can match it you won't get improvement past what the lens can do.


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## SamiJoSchwirtz (Jan 14, 2013)

T4i If you want to stick with rebel


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## crotonmark (Jan 20, 2013)

SamiJoSchwirtz said:
			
		

> T4i If you want to stick with rebel



I am also a total newbie who has a T4i with the 50mm1.8 lens. I used that lens yesterday for family shots and finally didn't get in my own way. Stick with it and you will improve. I can see improvements myself after many months of banging my head against the wall!!

Mark


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## JohnWDavisJr (Jan 20, 2013)

mev1205 said:
			
		

> Hey everyone, first post on the forum. I saw another post recently about the Canon T3 and thought I would make my own thread so as not to hijack his.
> 
> I recently got a T3 for Christmas as a bundle with a camera bag, 8gb card, 18-55mm IS lens, and 75-300mm lens all for around ~$540, tax included. I'm a beginner DSLR user, and for shelling out this type of money I want to make sure that I'm buying the best product for the money.
> 
> ...



I have a t2i for sale in the marketplace.

JD


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## o hey tyler (Jan 20, 2013)

Justman1020 said:
			
		

> I have a little different of an opinion.
> 
> The t3 in my mind is a dated camera. It's missing a lot, it's a 12 mp camera to where the t3i and t4i are 18.
> It doesn't have a swivel screen.
> ...



Megapixels mean next to nothing. So that first part is mostly irrelevant. Being quite familiar with the canon line, I can tell you that the T3 is NOT outdated. However it was designed specifically to appeal to the budget photographer. It's one of their newer bodies, it's just sparse with the features (including a rubber grip which is a big deal to me). 

My question to you is, why spend more now? When the OPs T3 is a perfectly viable learning platform and they can upgrade once they actually see and analyze its shortcomings?


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## TCampbell (Jan 20, 2013)

mev1205 said:


> Hey everyone, first post on the forum. I saw another post recently about the Canon T3 and thought I would make my own thread so as not to hijack his.
> 
> I recently got a T3 for Christmas as a bundle with a camera bag, 8gb card, 18-55mm IS lens, and 75-300mm lens all for around ~$540, tax included. I'm a beginner DSLR user, and *for shelling out this type of money I want to make sure that I'm buying the best product for the money*.



The T3 is probably the most affordable DSLR on the market.  Every other DSLR body will only get more expensive (unless you buy a used or refurbished body.)  The T3 is deliberately designed to keep the entry level price affordable comparable to other offerings.



> Now I got the bundle for a great price, *but what concerns me is that image quality of the T3 itself might be subpar to similar products*. I've taken some pictures that have turned out great, but others (especially at night, where it doesn't seem to do so well) haven't turned out that well and seem to produce alot of noise. In addition, I've been told that the *75-300mm lens isn't that great because you need IS to get a good shot at that distance*, so that's not the greatest selling factor on the bundle.



The T3 itself is just a sensor.  It can neither make images tack sharp nor soft & blurry.  It's the LENS that dictates how crisp the image appears to be.  

The problem with the 75-300mm isn't the IS or lack thereof... the problem with the 75-300mm is that it's probably the most mediocre quality lens Canon currently has in it's lineup.  The lens is designed to be very affordable.  Just about any other lens you can buy would be an upgrade.  Nevermind the IS... if you lock the camera & lens on a tripod so that it wont move (so you don't need image stabilization) it would still produce mediocre image quality.

The kit 18-55mm IS lens is actually fairly decent.  I've seen some amazingly sharp images from that lens.  Although it is a kit lens, isn't expensive, doesn't have internal focusing (so the end of the lens rotates as you focus -- making it more difficult to use circular polarizers with that lens) and doesn't have the fast USM focusing motor, when it does focus, it tends to be pretty good image quality (especially considering the price.)

The better zoom would be the EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS USM.  That's still a consumer-grade zoom, but it's a MUCH better lens than the 75-300.



> I go back to college on Sunday across the country and I'd like to make a decision before then on whether or not to return this. I'd like to spend less than $700 (less if possible, money is precious in college), including tax/shipping/decent camera bag/8gb SD card, and I've been considering a few options, including the T3i, T2i (why is this more expensive than the T3i?), Nikon D3200, and the Nikon D5100. I've looked at all the various reviews but they seem to meld together after awhile, so if anyone could provide some feedback as to whether or not I should keep/return the bundle I'd love to hear it, thanks.



The T2i and T3i are, of course, better bodies than the T3.  The T3i is a newer body than the T2i (about once per year, Canon introduces a new "Rebel" body.  This last year it was the T4i, the year before it was the T3i, and the T2i and T1i before that.)  The T3 (without the "i") was introduced about 2 years ago but that body is intended to be the MOST affordable DSLR body from Canon (and I think it's also probably the most affordable DSLR body on the market.)  The T3i and T2i are nearly identical (same sensor, processor, etc.) but the T3i has an articulated LCD screen that swings out (like a video camera).  

But keep in mind that if you were to trade in your camera for a different body you'd still need better lenses if you expect noticeable improvement in image quality.

ALSO... no ding on you, but YOUR SKILL is probably more important than anything else.  Very often when someone thinks they're getting poor results with their gear, it's because they haven't developed their skills to the point where they can get the results they want.


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## bigal1000 (Feb 7, 2013)

Let me start by saying it is my intension to help you not make you feal bad,but dump those cheesy cheap lenses,thay will do nothing but hold you back.Go to lensrentals.com and rent yourself a Canon 70-200f4 L or Canon 80-200 f2.8L lens,use them on your T3,if aren't amazed by the IQ I can't and no one else will be able to help you.Then come back here and post you results.


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## subscuck (Feb 7, 2013)

No one else has mentioned it, so I will. Buy a book. Your op says it all; first time DSLR owner. You don't need a better body or lenses right now. You need knowledge. A better, better being subjective, body will not give you better pictures right now. Knowledge of cameras and the mechanics of photography will. Lots of great pics on line taken with Rebels and kit lens by people who know how to get the most from their gear. That's where you want to be. Buy a copy of "Understanding Exposure" by Bryan Peterson. You are the person this book is geared towards. It's not the camera at fault for your issues, it's your lack of knowledge.


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## jrizal (Feb 7, 2013)

While some argue to keep the body and learn and buy better glass. The prices of other models are also dropping. The Nikon D3100 with the kit lens and 55-200mm VR plus other freebies can be bought for $649 and the T3i bundled with a 55-250mm IS and freebies can be bought for as low as $729. Definitely both are better bodies bundled with better glass. The question is did the OP already exchange/return his T3 since the post was made last month.


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## jrizal (Feb 7, 2013)

subscuck said:


> No one else has mentioned it, so I will. Buy a book. Your op says it all; first time DSLR owner. You don't need a better body or lenses right now. You need knowledge. A better, better being subjective, body will not give you better pictures right now. Knowledge of cameras and the mechanics of photography will. Lots of great pics on line taken with Rebels and kit lens by people who know how to get the most from their gear. That's where you want to be. Buy a copy of "Understanding Exposure" by Bryan Peterson. You are the person this book is geared towards. It's not the camera at fault for your issues, it's your lack of knowledge.



A lot of these entry level bundled packages include a video turorial and book regarding the basics which can get any newbie going. Just saying. 

And if none, it is still indeed good advice to buy a book or research the net to learn more like what subsuck said and definitely practice, practice, practice, and practice!


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## PagesPhotography (Feb 8, 2013)

I would either keep the t3, or if the _I should have bought _bug has you, get the t3i...

but overall, probably keep what you've got, and learn from that.

however, if you do decide to go for a different camera, and you need a bag, pm me, I've got a tamrac expedition 3 avavailable good luck!


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## gsgary (Feb 8, 2013)

Tony S said:


> Keep the camera and learn how to use it.  All the problems you bring up can be handled by learning to use the camera.
> 
> Noise can be reduced by not using too high of an ISO and getting the exposure correct, you might have to use a tripod to stabilize the camera for longer exposures.
> 
> IS is not is not needed to get good shots at distance, it only helps eliminate small camera movements.  Shutter speed, exposure, and good holding skills will get you good distance shots. Again, if you cannot hand hold it still enough or get the shutter speeds fast enough a tripod is a life saver.



Ditto


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## gsgary (Feb 8, 2013)

Justman1020 said:


> I have a little different of an opinion.
> 
> The t3 in my mind is a dated camera. It's missing a lot, it's a 12 mp camera to where the t3i and t4i are 18.
> It doesn't have a swivel screen.
> ...



******** just get the 1DX


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## bigal1000 (Feb 8, 2013)

or 5D3


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