# Leather question



## orlovphoto (Dec 16, 2010)

Hypothetical discussion here - no need to mention any models or names...


Suppose you get a very very rare camera.... it's in working order with all speeds going.... no dings or major body damage... a little patina here and there but it's lovely... However the original leather only remains in the front under the lens in about a 5 square inch patch and is brittle like it's been dehydrated in purpose - pretty much crumbles off if you touch it...


Question - do you:

A) leave it on and don't breath on it
B) take it all and have nice shiny metal showing all around
C) have a professional replace the leather 

Does option A add anything to the value cause I have a piece of original leather? Does C have a potential to decrease the value?

Thanks


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## Mitica100 (Dec 16, 2010)

orlovphoto said:


> Hypothetical discussion here - no need to mention any models or names...
> 
> 
> Suppose you get a very very rare camera.... it's in working order with all speeds going.... no dings or major body damage... a little patina here and there but it's lovely... However the original leather only remains in the front under the lens in about a 5 square inch patch and is brittle like it's been dehydrated in purpose - pretty much crumbles off if you touch it...
> ...



A) all the way! Do not mess with the original if it's that rare. I assume it's not a 'user' camera and it's kept mostly for value and scarcity. If that's the case, leave as is.

B) Never!

C) You can also do it, I can show you how. But strongly consider A).


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## orlovphoto (Dec 16, 2010)

Yeah, it's so brittle that pretty much every time you pick up the camera, unless you just handle it by the top plate and actually don't touch the remnants of the leather at all - it crumbles and cracks. 
Also, it's not like it's ON the camera really, at this point it's being held on by a miracle only via the two tiny ass body screws that used to go though it - the rest of the 5 or so square inches that remain are split in the middle by one continuous crack and stick about 1/8th of an inch away from the body in a wave shape...


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## Paul Ron (Dec 16, 2010)

What camera is it? Pics please? There arn't many "rare" cameras that would warrent such a treatment and if you did have one, go let a professional appraise it... also get a referal to a qualified antique restorer, maybe from a msueum, that is qualified to make restorations worth the camera's true value.


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## compur (Dec 16, 2010)

orlovphoto said:


> no need to mention any models or names...



I see a rather large need if you want an intelligent answer.


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## BAK61 (Dec 16, 2010)

the answer is;D...try to find the same camera that may only be suitable for parts,and hope the case is in better condition than yours...


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## orlovphoto (Dec 16, 2010)

"the answer is;D...try to find the same camera that may only be suitable  for parts,and hope the case is in better condition than yours... 		"

yeah... I looked on eBay and the only sale I see for a camera like it is $1200 - and the leather on it was not in the best shape either... 

It's a Canon rangefinder model S,  circa 1939...


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## compur (Dec 16, 2010)

Well, a Canon S is certainly a collectible camera -- congratulations.

In general there isn't as much universal agreement on the value of "original 
condition" as regards cameras as with many other antiques.  As an issue its 
importance probably varies with the collector. 

But, if you plan to sell it I would leave it alone as the new owner can always 
have that done if desired.

If it were mine and I planned to keep it I would recover it with as close a 
match as possible to the original but that's me.


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## orlovphoto (Dec 16, 2010)

correction - 1942


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## orlovphoto (Dec 16, 2010)

"If it were mine and I planned to keep it I would recover it with as close a 
match as possible to the original but that's me."

That's what I was planning on doing, except before shooting it I would have to figure out how to focus it (as I can't for the life of me figure out how to move it off infinity, there may be a lock I don't know about or the wheel is stuck because of old lube) and send the lens out to get it cleaned - closets do nasty things to equipment over decades...


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## compur (Dec 16, 2010)

There should be an infinity release button immediately below the left 
rangefinder window.


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## Paul Ron (Dec 16, 2010)

I thought you may like to see this site...

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photograph...koresources/RF-Nikkor/Canon_RF/1940/index.htm

Nice camera.

Now let's see yours?


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## Mitica100 (Dec 17, 2010)

Oh, a Canon S! Nice find!!

You can re-cover it, it's pretty easy. All you need is some similar grain leatherette from cameraleather.com and also some painter's tape, sharp Xacto knives, some toothpicks, possibly some leather punches of various sizes and lots of patience. In case you're interested, I will post the "How To' with pictures.


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## BAK61 (Dec 17, 2010)

I understand the value of antiques,and how everything should be as original as possible, but i was wondering, alot of cases are generic. I mean do you buy a camera for the camera, or because it has a cool case?  I would think the most important thing is to get the camera working,assuming you want to use it. Let's face it, don't the bellows on old cameras get replaced ? As long as the lens is clear,and the mechanics work the camera still has value. How many classic convertibles have their original ragtops? Some thing aren't supposed to last, leather for example...


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## Mitica100 (Dec 17, 2010)

BAK61 said:


> I understand the value of antiques,and how everything should be as original as possible, but i was wondering, alot of cases are generic. I mean do you buy a camera for the camera, or because it has a cool case?  I would think the most important thing is to get the camera working,assuming you want to use it. Let's face it, don't the bellows on old cameras get replaced ? As long as the lens is clear,and the mechanics work the camera still has value. How many classic convertibles have their original ragtops? Some thing aren't supposed to last, leather for example...



BAK, you're right. There are two kinds of collectors, ones that buy the rare cameras and display them for their rarity, no matter what condition they are in and the ones that buy more 'generic' collectible cameras and restore them to the best of their ability. I have both kinds of cameras. For example, I have a 'generic' old Leica M3 DS (double stroke) which came into my possession in good working order mechanically but with the leatherette very dry and falling off. I re-covered it with a kit from cameraleather.com and it looks lots better now. I would not do that to a rare camera though, such is the case with an old Hasselblad 1600F which belonged to an American Avionics pioneer. The covering on it is deteriorating. I am trying to keep it from deteriorating further but I will not re-cover it with a new kit. Same with a 1940 Contax III that was decommissioned from a German U-Boat. You don't want to touch these things.

Analogy with older cars is good to a point, I've seen many restored to their initial beauty and function but again, I've seen others kept in the very original condition. It really depends on the rarity.


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## Mike_E (Dec 17, 2010)

If you're going to use it why not go ahead and get it CLA'd and re-leathered by a pro.  You aren't going to be able to use it and keep it in it's current shape.

I'd follow Mitca's lead and have it restored unless (as he says) it has historical value beyond just being what it is.  I say this because unless you take extraordinary measures to preserve it, whatever corrosion that may be in or on it will continue to grow and that would be both counter productive and a shame.


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## orlovphoto (Dec 17, 2010)

"There should be an infinity release button immediately below the left 
rangefinder window."


Yeah, that's what I figured that thing is, but it doesn't budge very much at all (wiggles a tiny bit but doesn't really go down) and the gear wheel (which I assume is the focus) is dead stuck


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## Mitica100 (Dec 17, 2010)

Have you tried the hair drier approach? Blow some hot air, little by little until the goop softens, maybe then you'll have a little luck with taking it down.


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## bushpig (Dec 19, 2010)

Mitica100 said:


> There are two kinds of collectors, ones that buy the rare cameras and display them for their rarity, no matter what condition they are in and the ones that buy more 'generic' collectible cameras and restore them to the best of their ability. I have both kinds of cameras.



Or there's people like me who collect cameras to use. I would probably use a camera without leather. Maybe just cover with something to improve my grip. 

I would never go out of my way to get a valuable camera. If I came across a Rare Leica or something, I'd probably just flip it so someone who cares about them could have it.

My ultimate goal is to have at least one body for every lens mount, so that if I find a lens I want, I'll have a body to use it on.

The key word being 'USE'.


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## orlovphoto (Dec 19, 2010)

I'll try the hair dryer, thanks. Then lens is also very foggy. I'll need to get it cleaned. Do you recommend any particular shop for that or should a local repair shop do the job right? Maybe I'll even have them take a look at the focusing issue if the dryer doesn't work.


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## Mitica100 (Dec 19, 2010)

orlovphoto said:


> I'll try the hair dryer, thanks. Then lens is also very foggy. I'll need to get it cleaned. Do you recommend any particular shop for that or should a local repair shop do the job right? Maybe I'll even have them take a look at the focusing issue if the dryer doesn't work.



If you're going to send the lens to a specialized shop you might as well as send them the camera too. Yes, there are a few good specialized places to send your rare camera to be repaired. I would recommend against using a 'regular' repair shop altogether.


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## orlovphoto (Dec 19, 2010)

I was going to go in tomorrow to our local shop here in San Diego - Kurt's Camera repair. The Robot has a few aperture blades that are off the track - that should be an easy job for them and I'll see how they do.


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## Mitica100 (Dec 19, 2010)

orlovphoto said:


> I was going to go in tomorrow to our local shop here in San Diego - Kurt's Camera repair. The Robot has a few aperture blades that are off the track - that should be an easy job for them and I'll see how they do.



Be careful with older camera repair, Kurt's Camera Repair seems to be working on more modern stuff. The rangefinders and old cameras like the Robot are better in specialized hands. There are some well known repair places such as:


United Camera Repair 
3830 14th Avenue
Rock Island, IL 61201 
309-786-0950

Steve's Camera Service
4355 Sepulveda Blvd
Culver City, CA 90230
(310) 397-0072


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