# Unprofessional photographer



## BrandyRolin (Feb 24, 2015)

hello i am a model ,I do a lot if trade for time /trade for print shoots to update my port and also to meet new talent .I did  a shoot out back in October   ""Halloween Shoot out" with several photographers  ,one photographer haven't produced the photos of our shoot I mention it 3 times last night being my last time .I received the photos but they are not edited and they look pixelated ,I stated with a leading question these are not edited right ? Would it be ok if I edit them ,he replied back go for it as long as it is good ...wow really that is unprofessional in my opinion . 
Any one know how to clean up the photos


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## Forkie (Feb 24, 2015)

Hi Brandy,

This image is very low resolution and any edits done to it would only degrade the quality of it further. 

I think that particular photographer is an arsehole for not giving you full res, edited images.  He would not fair well in this forum:  So.. this is a rant about a model who didn t pay for a shoot and expects un-watermarked images. Photography Forum

You said there were several photographers that day?  I think in this case, unless he dares enter here, you may have to make do with the other photographers' images.

In future, make sure that both parties understand what you will both be getting out of the TFP shoot _before_ the camera shutter is clicked.


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## photoguy99 (Feb 24, 2015)

There's no fixing that, even if he sent you high resolution files. It's never going to be something you should put in your portfolio.


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## Braineack (Feb 24, 2015)

photoguy99 said:


> There's no fixing that, even if he sent you high resolution files. It's never going to be something you should put in your portfolio.


this is what I was thinking.


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## kathyt (Feb 24, 2015)

Honestly, I wouldn't want this in my portfolio if I were you anyways. I would let this one slide, and move on.


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## Overread (Feb 24, 2015)

Just a point - we operate a rule here that if you don't own copyright and/or distribution rights over a photo that you can't host it on the sites gallery nor embed it into the forum; though you can freely put links to 3rd party hosts. I'm saying that as I know how what your TFP contract outlines and whilst one might assume it contains a clause that allows you to display the photos you're given as part of the shoot; there might be restrictions.

If you don't have a contract that outlines the rights make sure you get one for the next time and play it by caution for any shoots you don't have a contract for (ergo assume you might not have distribution right for general public showing). It's just ensuring that you don't end up getting a nasty letter from a photographer angry about you showing the shots around. 

Mod wise I'm assuming you have distribution rights - if not please take a moment to host offsite and link to the photos in the future please.


As for your question the others have answered it well. This is a highly pixelated image way beyond saving; furthermore some elements of it such as the rather harsh looking light and reflections off your skin make it less than suitable for a portfolio even if this should could be fixed up. Whatever happened it sounds like the guy either had a bad day and got rubbish shots; or for some reason doesn't want to give you the full versions. If you network (on a site like Model Mayhem) then best course of action is to not book/arrange with that photographer again and leave a detailed, polite and honest review upon any review system they have. Don't take a cheap shot with insults, just be clear and calm to inform others - that will do more good in stopping others getting a similar poor experience.


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## Derrel (Feb 24, 2015)

If you have not received some decent images from an October shoot, you're probably out of luck with that photographer; the guy is obviously a turd. Four months is an utterly unacceptable turnaround time on a simple TF shoot.


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## gsgary (Feb 24, 2015)

Looks like he cloned out the cigarette


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## KmH (Feb 24, 2015)

I am not seeing pixelation in that photo. I am seeing posterization and JPEG artifacts due to the low bit depth and low resolution.


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## ronlane (Feb 24, 2015)

If you had useable images from the other photographers that were there, I'd just forget these images and make a note not to work with that photog in the future.


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## AKUK (Feb 24, 2015)

I can fully appreciate your annoyance, having given up your time and not received anything for almost 4 months, then to be handed low resolution, unedited images, is a smack in the face and speaks volumes about the photographer's ethics and respect. As others have said, if you have images from the same shoot that day, I would just chalk this one up to experience and never work with them again.

Looking at the shot you posted, it certainly isn't going to enhance your portfolio anyway.


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## e.rose (Feb 24, 2015)

If you want a quality portfolio, shoot with quality photographers.

If you're serious about trying to build your portfolio, pay someone to do it, don't just do a bunch of sh*tty Model Mayhem TFP shoots.

It's annoying you wasted your time with him, but on that same token, you get what you pay for in image quality and professionalism.


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## ronlane (Feb 24, 2015)

e.rose said:


> If you're serious about trying to build your portfolio, pay someone to do it, don't just do a bunch of sh*tty Model Mayhem TFP shoots.



 - Why do you continue to say such hurtful things about me? It all just feels so cheap/dirty when money gets involved. (Oh AND it ruins my amateur status)


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## DarkShadow (Feb 24, 2015)

A true professional would have recycled it in the Bin. Sorry


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## Overread (Feb 24, 2015)

You can get good free skill trades and this one that hte OP attended sounds like a group affair so likely there wasn't the option/chance/need to do a personal vetting on each photographer attending (depends how it was all setup and such). 

That said there are many good guides out there on checking that the person you're going to trade skills with has the skill and also the history of providing a good product, working well, on time etc.... Network with other models in your area; you'll pick up names of good reliable photographers that way - read reviews on photographers - check out their posting history and such - search their user name(s). Basically do some homework and you can oft find enough out about someone to tell if they are going to be a safe bet to work with. 

Be firm too; sometimes you might turn up and they turn up in a totally undesirable manner or act as such during etc.., so don't be afraid to call them out and walk away (if you're doing modelling with strangers you'll be taking a friend with you as well anyway for moral support). 

As said paying for services improves the chances of a honest situation; but even then you can have differences between the upper and lower ends of the pay scale. Plus some people charge lots and are still hopeless so you've still got to do just as much homework.


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## tirediron (Feb 24, 2015)

The one question that I don't believe has been answered is, "Did the photographer know what was expected of him?"  If he was relatively new to the whole "TF* thing, he may not have been fully aware, and while that doesn't excuse his actions, perhaps it may explain them?


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## runnah (Feb 24, 2015)

Has anyone pointed out that this is a bad photo?


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## e.rose (Feb 24, 2015)

Overread said:


> You can get good free skill trades



You CAN... sometimes... but those are generally very specific situations, and I highly doubt that was the case.

The group situation has partly to do with it, but there's another huge factor that... I just... I won't go into because it'll get me banned. 

So. I'm just gonna not... and instead say.............

Next time, do your research, hire a quality photographer that can help you build a quality portfolio, because if you're *seriously* trying to pursue modeling, that image above and anything like it is not going to get you booked on a real job anywhere.


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## e.rose (Feb 24, 2015)

runnah said:


> Has anyone pointed out that this is a bad photo?



I tried to imply it in my first post.

But here... let me go ahead and spell it out entirely  :

This is a bad photo. Why do you even want to use it in your portfolio? Don't waste your time editing it. Just delete it. Be glad he didn't do anything with his images, because if they're all like the above photo, they're just going to make you look bad.


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## vintagesnaps (Feb 24, 2015)

I think I can read e.rose's mind...

If you've done a lot already for a portfolio it might be time to start pursuing paid work as a model and paying a reputable photographer for good professional quality photos.

And get things in writing, even if done in trade, to maintain control of how photos of you may be used.


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## e.rose (Feb 24, 2015)

vintagesnaps said:


> I think I can read e.rose's mind...
> 
> If you've done a lot already for a portfolio it might be time to start pursuing paid work as a model and paying a reputable photographer for good professional quality photos.
> 
> And get things in writing, even if done in trade, to maintain control of how photos of you may be used.


That's not *quite* where I was going, but that's good advice, regardless.


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## photoguy99 (Feb 24, 2015)

You should not have to pay the photographer.

There are many things you might pay something for, lessons in improving your modeling skills, hair, makeup. But paying the photographer isn't one of them.

There are plenty of bozos who will charge and plenty of skilled photographers who will trade. The important thing is to pick a photographer who shoots good photos and has the portfolio to prove it, not to pay.


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## tecboy (Feb 24, 2015)

Don't feel bad.  At least I put this photo in good use.


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## photoguy99 (Feb 24, 2015)

Are you claiming this as derivative work?


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## e.rose (Feb 24, 2015)

photoguy99 said:


> You should not have to pay the photographer.
> 
> There are many things you might pay something for, lessons in improving your modeling skills, hair, makeup. But paying the photographer isn't one of them.
> 
> There are plenty of bozos who will charge and plenty of skilled photographers who will trade. The important thing is to pick a photographer who shoots good photos and has the portfolio to prove it, not to pay.



I mean... that's incorrect. But... that's okay, because this is the interwebz.

[SNIP: I sat here for about 5 minutes starting to write out a whole explanation, but then I realized that I'm hungry and I just don't care because... this is the interwebz and I have better things to do than to try to explain to the interwebz how the professional modeling and commercial photography world works.

I'm gonna go eat pizza now. And hang out on my best friend's couch and play really f***ing nerdy card games online, and edit some photos in between matches.   ]


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## photoguy99 (Feb 24, 2015)

I know this seems crazy, e.rose, but you're not the only person in the world who knows things.


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## vintagesnaps (Feb 24, 2015)

I wasn't too clear was I erose? lol I meant I got where you were going (I think), the rest of my comments were my own thoughts.


erose knows her stuff. At some point if you want professional quality results you'll probably need to hire a pro.


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## pixmedic (Feb 24, 2015)

it is entirely possibly to find good photographic  talent, just starting out, that is willing to trade quality work for getting pictures to build their own portfolio. every great photographer had to start somewhere, and TF's are a much better option for portfolio building than stealing other photographers work.  The notion that anyone "trading" work isn't producing good results seems rather silly to me. 

on the flip side, established/experienced models that have specific photographic needs and time frames are often better off paying an established/experienced photographer and having a much better chance of getting exactly _*what*_ they want _*when*_ they need it. 

Its the same for the photographer too...if you want a specific look and don't want to spend a lot of time directing, hire an experienced model. 

I think it really comes down to what your needs are, and what you are willing/able to settle for.


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## Overread (Feb 24, 2015)

Photoguy - eh I don't know what you're on about. As Pix says there are times when you can find what you need in this market for little cost; but also times when you have to pay for it. Indeed many times those with high skill are going to cost - it might mean a huge fee; it might mean pizza and petrol money. 

Heck for this kind of work you have photographer, hair, make-up, assistants, model, supporting models, sets, props. A really great shoot can involve a lot of people and sometimes you can pull some or all of it together for a trade and everyone walks away a winner where the "fee" was each other being there to work; other times you'll have to save up and pay up for it because what you want isn't out there for free; or because getting it all at the same time is too difficult to risk having one "flake out" on the day etc..

What stands true no matter paid or free is doing homework on the people you hire/are hired by. That and good communication before the event. If you turn up knowing what's needed, knowing what's expected and knowing what you'll walk away with it will go faster, smoother and better than turning up and being all "ok er you want me to do what - oooh wait I wish you'd said I could have brought that dress that would hav worked great for that shot....etc.." 



e.rose said:


> And hang out on my best friend's couch and play really f***ing nerdy card games online, and edit some photos in between matches.   ]



Go to Amazon/local geek store
Buy Munchkin 
Enjoy company with improved madness and nerdyness and fun! 
Buy Munchkin Expansions 
Enjoy enhanced, improved madness and nerdyness and fun!


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## photoguy99 (Feb 24, 2015)

Obviously you CAN pay a photographer, for whatever kind of shoot you want. There's lots of photographers who would be happy to take your money. Obviously there comes a degree of specificity at which you are going to have a hard time finding a TF photographer, sure. Why are we even talking about this? 

If you want some basic stuff for your portfolio, which is what the OP seems to be talking about, and even if you want it shot extremely well, there are tons of guys out there who'd fit the bill. You just have to find them, which isn't going to be any harder in most places than finding someone who'll take your money. The _important_ thing is whether they can deliver some good pictures, and the fact that they charge or do not is unrelated.

Or are we suddenly saying that photographers who charge money are automatically better? Because, well, that would be a bit of a switch.


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## Overread (Feb 24, 2015)

photoguy99 said:


> Or are we suddenly saying that photographers who charge money are automatically better? Because, well, that would be a bit of a switch.



Yes. 

The photographers skill level is, of course, not based upon payment. You can be outstanding and charge nothing and be rubbish and charge the Earth. However when money enters the equation little hiccups tend to vanish. People actually have more reason to turn up for the event - either because they have paid to be there and thus don't want to lose out; or because by attending they are going to be paid (oft the rest of the fee after the deposit).

Asides which no one in this thread has said that the OP MUST pay. We've been simply presenting the idea that free service trade does indeed work, but that alongside sometimes you have to consider investing to get what you want. Either way its been repeatedly said that the best way to avoid trouble is to do your homework - free or paid do the homework to make sure you get what you're after.


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## photoguy99 (Feb 24, 2015)

Apparently we are reading different threads. In the one I am reading two separate people have said that the OP would have to pay (well, didn't HAVE to pay, if you want to get nitpicky, but would have to pay if she wanted good portfolio photos. If she doesn't, well, clearly she's free to do whatever she likes).

It is this contention I have difficulty with, since there are people _on this very forum _who do fine work, sometimes on a TF basis.

My background and information extends somewhat outside the forum, as well, as it happens, but that's largely irrelevant.


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## pixmedic (Feb 24, 2015)

photoguy99 said:


> Apparently we are reading different threads. In the one I am reading two separate people have said that the OP would have to pay (well, didn't HAVE to pay, if you want to get nitpicky, but would have to pay if she wanted good portfolio photos. If she doesn't, well, clearly she's free to do whatever she likes).
> 
> It is this contention I have difficulty with, since there are people _on this very forum _who do fine work, sometimes on a TF basis.
> 
> My background and information extends somewhat outside the forum, as well, as it happens, but that's largely irrelevant.



its all speculative anyway.
there's no evidence one way or the other that the OP could or could not have found a quality photographer to do her shoot for free.  The only actual factual piece of information we have is that the OP did a TF shoot and received (and I think we can all agree on this, yes?) a sub-par image.  It is my opinion that either scenario, whether it be finding a good photographer for free _*or*_  having to pay for one, could be equally likely under ideal conditions.  I do believe though, that there is probably at least a slightly better chance of success for both a quality image and a timely/professional shoot from a paid professional.


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## Parker219 (Feb 24, 2015)

As others said this image is pretty far gone...but at least I think this is a little better...


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## photoguy99 (Feb 24, 2015)

On a completely separate note, that dress is what a red channel that's been blown to hell and gone looks like, right?


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## Overread (Feb 24, 2015)

Red and yellow are nasty colours that do blow-out easily (as any flower photographer will tell you). They can be nightmares to control; but yes I'd say that dress looks like the red colour channel has blown out - but its hard to tell because of the overall low quality of what we have. Might be in the original it wasn't so bad (or if done in RAW might even have been a simple white balance change to mostly fix). But in its current form yes - that's blown out red.


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## Designer (Feb 24, 2015)

e.rose said:


> That's not *quite* where I was going, but that's good advice, regardless.


I know damn well I read her mind in that post.  Be kind; rewind.


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## BrandyRolin (Feb 26, 2015)

photoguy99 said:


> There's no fixing that, even if he sent you high resolution files. It's never going to be something you should put in your portfolio.


You are right ,this was a shoot out organized ,I had excellent photos from the others i shoot with .o am satisfied with the turn out from others ,.ill show you example 




Derrel said:


> If you have not received some decent images from an October shoot, you're probably out of luck with that photographer; the guy is obviously a turd. Four months is an utterly unacceptable turnaround time on a simple TF shoot.





Forkie said:


> Hi Brandy,
> 
> This image is very low resolution and any edits done to it would only degrade the quality of it further.
> 
> ...


  I agree with you ,not really such as rant as a statement ,I was more less looking for some advice or knowledge on how to fix these there was a few that I liked if they was clearer or fixable.I have received  all other photos with in days of shoot and totally satisfied ,and  I am only saying I think it could of been worded a little different or perhaps offered to fix one or two photos of my choice .


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## BrandyRolin (Feb 26, 2015)

tirediron said:


> The one question that I don't believe has been answered is, "Did the photographer know what was expected of him?"  If he was relatively new to the whole "TF* thing, he may not have been fully aware, and while that doesn't excuse his actions, perhaps it may explain them?


Ohh  no sir he has been in to this awhile really ,I look at his work and thought wow he does good .I just left him
 But it's ok  these events is where you meet new faces and work with those you know and those that you haven't workec with before .Basically got what I was looking for  just not fixable . all learning experience .


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## BrandyRolin (Feb 26, 2015)

Parker219 said:


> As others said this image is pretty far gone...but at least I think this is a little better...
> 
> View attachment 96029


Yes it is much better indeed .i am just trying to understand what went wrong and if i could fix my self I would .A lot of our events shoot outs are for fun and meet new faces and every one come together and have a little fun and dress up  for themes and different things .updating ports and mingle .most of the time we have the same photographers and most same models exception new faces but to see what others work is like ..


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## BrandyRolin (Feb 27, 2015)

BrandyRolin said:


> Parker219 said:
> 
> 
> > As others said this image is pretty far gone...but at least I think this is a little better...
> ...


Thank you Parker 219


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## elizpage (Feb 27, 2015)

There is no fixing that image, no matter how much you edit it. I would just scrap it and not work with this person again.


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## BrandyRolin (Feb 27, 2015)

elizpage said:


> There is no fixing that image, no matter how much you edit it. I would just scrap it and not work with this person again.[/QUOTE
> I won't be ,I believe in second chances   I understand some times things happen but how ever it was the way it was handled that really was the down fall .I just moved along and note to self .. Thank you for all of your and every ones input on this .i love to get in to photography and editing  so I am trying to learn the ropes as well .


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## BrandyRolin (Feb 27, 2015)

Parker219 said:


> As others said this image is pretty far gone...but at least I think this is a little better...
> 
> View attachment 96029


 thank you


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## elizpage (Feb 27, 2015)

BrandyRolin said:


> elizpage said:
> 
> 
> > There is no fixing that image, no matter how much you edit it. I would just scrap it and not work with this person again.[/QUOTE
> > I won't be ,I believe in second chances   I understand some times things happen but how ever it was the way it was handled that really was the down fall .I just moved along and note to self .. Thank you for all of your and every ones input on this .i love to get in to photography and editing  so I am trying to learn the ropes as well .



Yeah. When I had my business I delivered photos within a week maximum. That's unacceptable behavior. If the photos were simply not up to par (as these obviously were) I would have apologized to the client and offered a free re-shoot.


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## BrandyRolin (Feb 27, 2015)

Overread said:


> Just a point - we operate a rule here that if you don't own copyright and/or distribution rights over a photo that you can't host it on the sites gallery nor embed it into the forum; though you can freely put links to 3rd party hosts. I'm saying that as I know how what your TFP contract outlines and whilst one might assume it contains a clause that allows you to display the photos you're given as part of the shoot; there might be restrictions.
> 
> If you don't have a contract that outlines the rights make sure you get one for the next time and play it by caution for any shoots you don't have a contract for (ergo assume you might not have distribution right for general public showing). It's just ensuring that you don't end up getting a nasty letter from a photographer angry about you showing the shots around.
> 
> ...


Oh of course I understand ,we are giving the right to share our work and photos on social media ,web sites and any other way we choose .most ste


Overread said:


> Just a point - we operate a rule here that if you don't own copyright and/or distribution rights over a photo that you can't host it on the sites gallery nor embed it into the forum; though you can freely put links to 3rd party hosts. I'm saying that as I know how what your TFP contract outlines and whilst one might assume it contains a clause that allows you to display the photos you're given as part of the shoot; there might be restrictions.
> 
> If you don't have a contract that outlines the rights make sure you get one for the next time and play it by caution for any shoots you don't have a contract for (ergo assume you might not have distribution right for general public showing). It's just ensuring that you don't end up getting a nasty letter from a photographer angry about you showing the shots around.
> 
> ...


thank you , I have permission to share any and all photos  some times we sign model photogtapher agreement and most are verbal  we can net work and share our photos in any way we like but not to sale with out talking it over with photographer . I do have model mayhem. As I do have Face book page for my modeling work ..I am new on this site and I hope to learn as much as possible in front of the camera as well as behind .I surely don't mean to come off as rude at all .i am trying to also figure out how this page works so please be patient and if I do something incorrect please correct me .Thank you  for your guidence


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## BrandyRolin (Feb 27, 2015)

gsgary said:


> Looks like he cloned out the cigarette[/QUOTE
> No cigarette


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## BrandyRolin (Feb 27, 2015)

runnah said:


> Has anyone pointed out that this is a bad photo?


It was not the best how ever I just picked one out of about 20 pics for example


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## BrandyRolin (Feb 27, 2015)

e.rose said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> > Has anyone pointed out that this is a bad photo?
> ...


No I agree this was not the best photo ,I just picked one out of the ones he sent just to get input on this  .


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## BrandyRolin (Feb 27, 2015)

photoguy99 said:


> You should not have to pay the photographer.
> 
> There are many things you might pay something for, lessons in improving your modeling skills, hair, makeup. But paying the photographer isn't one of them.
> 
> There are plenty of bozos who will charge and plenty of skilled photographers who will trade. The important thing is to pick a photographer who shoots good photos and has the portfolio to prove it, not to pay.


I normally do my own make up but how ever I did pay for make up for this event and I was a little warm in there ,lol I have resorted back to rule of doing my own unless I see that it may be beneficial . It was halloween after all no excuse I know


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## BrandyRolin (Feb 27, 2015)

e.rose said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> > Has anyone pointed out that this is a bad photo?
> ...


I realize that ,I am just trying to learn  and if I don't ask I won't learn .I felt that if I shared the photo along with my question I could get a better understanding .


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## BrandyRolin (Feb 27, 2015)

tecboy said:


> Don't feel bad.  At least I put this photo in good use.
> View attachment 96026


 Wow thank you ,all I was going for here with the bad photo was to learn  about what causes photos to appear this way and if it could be fixed .I realize that it is not quality photo and it's not worth keeping how ever I used it with my question .I surely did not intend on ruffling feathers .Every one started out learning trial and error ,we all learn by asking some one who is more experienced than the next .This is all I was doing ..Thank you for your time


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## tecboy (Feb 27, 2015)

BrandyRolin said:


> tecboy said:
> 
> 
> > Don't feel bad.  At least I put this photo in good use.
> ...



It doesn't take that much effort.  If you have photoshop, you can use Filter gallery, you can play all kinds of effects with your image.  With little tweaking, you will be amazed what you can do.


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## BrandyRolin (Feb 28, 2015)

tecboy said:


> BrandyRolin said:
> 
> 
> > tecboy said:
> ...





 Just turn it in to something fun


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## minicoop1985 (Feb 28, 2015)

YES! It's 1993!!!!! That's the spirit.


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## Designer (Feb 28, 2015)

BrandyRolin said:


> Wow thank you ,all I was going for here with the bad photo was to learn  about what causes photos to appear this way and if it could be fixed .


Hi, Brandy

As for this photo, it looks a little underexposed, and what light there is is somewhat flat (straight on).  I don't know what he did, but the processing makes your skin look "blotchy" and discolored.  The camera position may have been a bit too high, and he missed with the frame.  If you like the pose, then so be it, but if the photographer sees a pose that doesn't turn out well, he just deletes the photo and gives you only the better ones.  Some of the artifacts may be due to trying to compensate for a poor exposure, which he should admit to you.


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## BrandyRolin (Feb 28, 2015)

Designer said:


> BrandyRolin said:
> 
> 
> > Wow thank you ,all I was going for here with the bad photo was to learn  about what causes photos to appear this way and if it could be fixed .
> ...



Thank you kindly for taking the time to explain .


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