# Nikon D810 Thermal Noise Issue is Confirmed



## ruifo (Aug 19, 2014)

Nikon D810 Low ISO thermal noise issue

Nikon D810 Thermal Noise Issue
Nikon Confirms the D810 Thermal Issue and Offers a Solution

According to the source above, "_the above issue is not critical for most photographers and only affects those that shoot at long exposures without LENR (Long Exposure Noise Reduction) turned on_". But anyhow, it's good to know.

Here is Nikon's USA service center information and response:

http://www.nikonusa.com/en/Service-...ice-Advisory-for-Users-of-the-Nikon-D810.html


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## runnah (Aug 19, 2014)

Pretty sure this is a non-issue as it happens with any camera.


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## hamlet (Aug 19, 2014)

My camera collects noise like it is nobodies business when i do long exposures in poor lighting conditions.


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## astroNikon (Aug 19, 2014)

hamlet said:


> My camera collects noise like it is nobodies business when i do long exposures in poor lighting conditions.


You are covering your viewfinder completely aren't you?  To prevent light leakage onto the sensor from the viewfinder.


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## Raj_55555 (Aug 19, 2014)

astroNikon said:


> You are covering your viewfinder completely aren't you? To prevent light leakage onto the sensor from the viewfinder.


I'm not sure if you're serious or just joking. Does that really happen?


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## julianliu (Aug 19, 2014)

"*Thank you for choosing Nikon for your imaging needs.*

We have received a few reports from some users of the Nikon D810 digital SLR camera indicating that noise (bright spots) are sometimes noticeable in long exposures, and in some images captured at an *Image area* setting of *1.2× (30×20)*.
After looking into the matter, we have determined that some noise (bright spots) may on occasion be noticeable when shooting long exposures, and in images captured at an *Image area* setting of *1.2× (30×20)*.
Nikon service centers will service these cameras that have already been purchased as needed free of charge to the customer. We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this issue may have caused. 

*Identifying affected products
*To check whether or not your camera is one of those affected by this issue, please click the *Affected Product Serial Numbers* link below and enter your D810&#8217;s serial number as instructed. Your camera&#8217;s serial number will be checked against those of affected products. If your camera is one of those affected, you will be forwarded to additional instructions. If your camera is not one of those affected, you may continue using your camera without concern for this issue."


*That's what Nikon says. Why don't they ask users to just shoot pictures at 1.2x setting to find out whether issue exist or not? Are they fooling us by asking us to check the serial number?*


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## KmH (Aug 19, 2014)

Raj_55555 said:


> astroNikon said:
> 
> 
> > You are covering your viewfinder completely aren't you? To prevent light leakage onto the sensor from the viewfinder.
> ...


Yes. When the photographer does not have their eye at the viewfinder, like during a long exposure.

Even though the mirror is up the mirror does not completely block light from getting to the image sensor from the viewfinder.
That's why Nikon provides a DK-5 viewfinder cover with every camera it sells.


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## Raj_55555 (Aug 19, 2014)

KmH said:


> Yes. When the photographer does not have their eye at the viewfinder, like during a long exposure.
> 
> Even though the mirror is up the mirror does not completely block light from getting to the image sensor from the viewfinder.
> That's why Nikon provides a DK-5 viewfinder cover with every camera it sells.



I had no idea, you have to learn everything someday  Thanks Keith!


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## molested_cow (Aug 19, 2014)

Those specks look quite bad. I'd be absolutely pissed if I spend that much money for specks as I shoot star trails.


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## ruifo (Aug 19, 2014)

Raj_55555 said:


> astroNikon said:
> 
> 
> > You are covering your viewfinder completely aren't you? To prevent light leakage onto the sensor from the viewfinder.
> ...



Yes, this happens. It's always good to cover it. Thd D810 has a system to do it in body, for instance.


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## astroNikon (Aug 19, 2014)

Raj_55555 said:


> astroNikon said:
> 
> 
> > You are covering your viewfinder completely aren't you? To prevent light leakage onto the sensor from the viewfinder.
> ...


I learned the hard way .. took a bunch of photos during the day with some dark ND filters on.  The photos all had a large purple blob in the middle.
I had to think back to my old cameras of how I set this up then realized the d600/d7000 don't have viewfinder shutters like pro bodies do (d300, d700 etc)


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## Didereaux (Aug 19, 2014)

runnah said:


> Pretty sure this is a non-issue as it happens with any camera.



Then why would Nikon release this?  ""*Thank you for choosing Nikon for your imaging needs.

We have received a few reports from some users of the Nikon D810 digital SLR camera indicating that noise (bright spots) are sometimes noticeable in long exposures, and in some images captured at an Image area setting of 1.2× (30×20).
After looking into the matter, we have determined that some noise (bright spots) may on occasion be noticeable when shooting long exposures, and in images captured at an Image area setting of 1.2× (30×20).
Nikon service centers will service these cameras that have already been purchased as needed free of charge to the customer. We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this issue may have caused. 

Identifying affected products
To check whether or not your camera is one of those affected by this issue, please click the Affected Product Serial Numbers link below and enter your D810&#8217;s serial number as instructed. Your camera&#8217;s serial number will be checked against those of affected products. If your camera is one of those affected, you will be forwarded to additional instructions. If your camera is not one of those affected, you may continue using your camera without concern for this issue."


That's what Nikon says. Why don't they ask users to just shoot pictures at 1.2x setting to find out whether issue exist or not? Are they fooling us by asking us to check the serial number?"

*Because you own something does not make it flawless.


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## molested_cow (Aug 19, 2014)

I always forget to use the shutter.... I guess I've been lucky so far.


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## runnah (Aug 19, 2014)

Didereaux said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> > Pretty sure this is a non-issue as it happens with any camera.
> ...



Thermal issues with long exposures is an issue all cameras face. The issue here isn't hardware, rather a software fix. The problem won't go away but rather will be fixed in camera. It makes me wonder if the issue will still show up in RAW files.


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## Tailgunner (Aug 19, 2014)

astroNikon said:


> Raj_55555 said:
> 
> 
> > astroNikon said:
> ...



I still forget this about half the time. You just don't naturally think about it during the day time I guess. It can be frustrating for sure...and it's so easy with the D800, it's got a built in view finder cover. You just flip the lever and shoot. But nope, I end up having to re-shoot a few shots.


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## D-B-J (Aug 19, 2014)

ruifo said:


> Raj_55555 said:
> 
> 
> > astroNikon said:
> ...



Yup, my D800 has a built in viewfinder shutter. I use it on any exposure longer than a second.


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## hamlet (Aug 19, 2014)

KmH said:


> Raj_55555 said:
> 
> 
> > astroNikon said:
> ...



So that's what that little plastic thing is.


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## Vince.1551 (Aug 19, 2014)

Damn my serial number is affected !!!


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## ruifo (Aug 19, 2014)

Vince.1551 said:


> Damn my serial number is affected !!!




The easieste way to identify if you have the issue or not:
Nikon Confirms the D810 Thermal Issue and Offers a Solution


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## ruifo (Aug 19, 2014)

hamlet said:


> So that's what that little plastic thing is.




Yes! It is.

The pro-like bodies from the D300, D700, D800, D3, D4 families all have the in built viewfinder cover system, which is better than the platic piece.

See it here:
http://www.nikonians.org/res/images/2013_03/20130304_163434_figure_7.jpg


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## Vince.1551 (Aug 19, 2014)

Yes I did checked, it's affected and I'm flying tomorrow for two weeks. Gotta live with the additional writing time with NR on grrrr


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## Tailgunner (Aug 19, 2014)

ruifo said:


> hamlet said:
> 
> 
> > So that's what that little plastic thing is.
> ...



My D300 doesn't have one


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## ruifo (Aug 19, 2014)

I though it had it.
So possibly only the D700, D800, D3, D4 families.


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## Vince.1551 (Aug 19, 2014)

Strangely I saw somewhere the D800 & D800e was classified as a semi-pro camera. 


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## ruifo (Aug 19, 2014)

Vince.1551 said:


> Strangely I saw somewhere the D800 & D800e was classified as a semi-pro camera.



Only the big ones, the D3 and D4 families are the real pro camera.

The D700, D800, D800E, D810 are semi-pro. The D300s as wel, I believe.

The D600 and D610 are entry level.

The Df is considered an specialized camera.


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## Braineack (Aug 19, 2014)

Vince.1551 said:


> Yes I did checked, it's affected and I'm flying tomorrow for two weeks. Gotta live with the additional writing time with NR on grrrr




or do it in software like the NR function is doing.


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## ruifo (Aug 19, 2014)

A interesting post and discussion about the D810's thermal noise issue:

Debunking the D810 Thermal Noise "Issue": Nikon FX SLR (DF, D1-D4, D600-D800) Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review


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## ruifo (Aug 19, 2014)

I just made some tests with my D810, and found no issues whatsoever (S/N 3007224). Click to enlarge to full resolution size.





D810, 1.2x crop mode, 30 sec, ISO 64, f/2.8, 'Tamron 70-200mm f/2.8 Di VC USD'





D810, FX mode, 30 sec, ISO 200, f/32, 'Tamron 70-200mm f/2.8 Di VC USD'



Both images are pure black, with no noise. This is very different from what I see here, from someone else in Japan:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/kuwahara/14782026979/in/pool-d810-award

Full size:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/kuwahara/14782026979/sizes/o/


And Nikon's website mentions my serial number needs repair for this issue.
I guess they are calling all, if needed, even when not all D810 are affected.


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## gsgary (Aug 19, 2014)

Raj_55555 said:


> KmH said:
> 
> 
> > Yes. When the photographer does not have their eye at the viewfinder, like during a long exposure.
> ...



Have a look on your camera strap, my Canons have a viewfinder cover built in


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## runnah (Aug 19, 2014)

ruifo said:


> Only the big ones, the D3 and D4 families are the real pro camera.




No...


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## Scatterbrained (Aug 19, 2014)

Didereaux said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> > Pretty sure this is a non-issue as it happens with any camera.
> ...


heat related noise is a well known issue of digital capture.  It's why Sinar digital backs don't have LCD screens (to reduce heat near the sensor), it's why specialized astro cameras have cooling systems on them, and it's why camera makers add long exposure noise reduction.   

I think this is a case of Nikon trying to fight the "Internet Amplifier" effect.  Considering how much the D600 debacle cost them I'd imagine they see it as cheaper to just add a software patch to existing cameras rather than deal with the potential bad press if this thing snowballs out of control.     Of course there is a possibility that a batch of D810s have faulty sensors or circuitry.  Who really knows but Nikon?


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## Tailgunner (Aug 19, 2014)

Vince.1551 said:


> Strangely I saw somewhere the D800 & D800e was classified as a semi-pro camera.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Semi-Pro is one way of looking at it or Prosumer is another. These are bodies that designed for people looking for Pro like features that you can't get in your typical consumer grade bodies. 

The D300, D300s, D600/D610, D700, D800/D800E/D810, Df all fall under this category.


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## gsgary (Aug 19, 2014)

I hope it's an F7


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## Scatterbrained (Aug 19, 2014)

Tailgunner said:


> Vince.1551 said:
> 
> 
> > Strangely I saw somewhere the D800 & D800e was classified as a semi-pro camera.
> ...



I don't know how it is with Nikon, but I remember running across a discussion with a Canon rep where he stated that the 1 series were more for corporate pros (think of large firms like magazines, newspapers, and stock agencies like Getty/Alamy/etc), while the 5 and 7 series were for the retail pros (wedding shooters, high school sports shooters etc) and serious amateurs.   Of course, I think in that same conversation they mentioned that in Japan only the 1 series was considered a pro camera.  When you look at how they are marketed  it certainly makes sense.


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## Tailgunner (Aug 19, 2014)

Scatterbrained said:


> Tailgunner said:
> 
> 
> > Vince.1551 said:
> ...




The above mentioned is about all I really know about the subject to be honest outside of Nikon will accept the semi-pro/pro-consumers as part of their Professional Membership service but thats it. 

Anyhow, I hope this issue doesn't turn into anything serious for the D810 and Nikon can resolve it soon.


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## julianliu (Aug 19, 2014)

Damn it. I just checked mine. It is affected.


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## cowleystjames (Aug 19, 2014)

Checked on my serial no today after an email from Nikon UK, and I've got one that needs to go back to Nikon.
They've sent anpost paid label just have to drop it into a post office.
But they're saying two to four weeks for repair!
Two questions, is that timescale acceptable for a camera that I've had for only three weeks? And is it worth sending in to repair a function that I'm probably not going to use?


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## Derrel (Aug 19, 2014)

runnah said:


> ruifo said:
> 
> 
> > Only the big ones, the D3 and D4 families are the real pro camera.
> ...



Uh....yes. The D800 is a prosumer camera with an auxillary battery grip and a lower-specification shutter, and not as good a viewfinder system, and so on. Ther D800 series is a high-level prosumer camera series, made with a good sensor, but it's not a "*pro Nikon body*", and neither are the D700 or D300...if you've ever owned a real pro Nikon body in the F2,F3,F4,or F5 mold, or the newer D1, D2, or D3 or D4 digital series pro Nikons, you'd know that the "pro Nikons" are a different beast than the "serious amateur" bodies and lower.

The thing is: it's been over 30 years that Nikon users, pro, amateur, whatever, have found that *the best VALUE is usually in the pro-sumer or "serious enthusiast" cameras*, like the FE instead of the F-2 Photomic; or the Nikon FM or FE-2 or FM-2 instead of the F3HP; on the N8008 or N8008s instead of the F4; or the N90s or F100 instead of the F5!!! EVERY SINGLE ONE of those pro Nikon bodies was made concurrently with a serious amateur AKA a prosumer body, that was in most cases, every bit as handy, always lighter, and always less-costlyu than the true professional grade Nikon, in each of those four distinct eras. I preferred the FE-2 to the F3HP in most ways, as did many serious shooters. The F100 was a great serious "prosumer" body that was in most ways a better value than the F5.


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## Vince.1551 (Aug 19, 2014)

Somehow the D810 is listed as a pro camera now.


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## Derrel (Aug 19, 2014)

Vince.1551 said:


> Somehow the D810 is listed as a pro camera now.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



It qualifies for NPS members; they have to list it, or nobody who shoots Nikon would qualify for NPS!!! The D4 has been a sales turd...not many people want to D4 with its lower MP count sensor and huge, heavy pro body--unless they are one of the lucky few who still have a JOB working for a media outlet that doesn't cull images from iPhone and Samsung Galaxy shooters for breaking news! Thom Hogan still lists the D800 series as prosumer; but that doesn't mean the D800 series cameras are bad, or that they are undesirable...but they are aimed at hobby shooters AND pro shooters in several areas, people who want the MOST value for their dollar, and are willing to sacrifice battery life, and weather sealing, and ultimate long-life of the camera and the shutter in exchange for a $2,400 or so lower list price, and half the shutter life and so on. (The D810 can, with the accessory battery grip, use the battery from the D4/D4s, but you need to buy your own charger for the D4/D4s type batteries).

I'd rather have a D800, D800e, or D810 than I would a D4 or D4s... but no matter how badly many people want to call their D800 bodies "pro Nikons", there really is a second level of camera above the D800 series. We all know that.


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## Vince.1551 (Aug 19, 2014)

ruifo said:


> I just made some tests with my D810, and found no issues whatsoever (S/N 3007224). Click to enlarge to full resolution size.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




If I read it correctly it only affects shutter speed above 30s


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## ruifo (Aug 19, 2014)

Vince.1551 said:


> If I read it correctly it only affects shutter speed above 30s




I've read above 20s, but informations are not making sense yet.
If it is only above 30s, and with LENR resolvng it in camera today, that will affect very very few people indeed.


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## Vince.1551 (Aug 19, 2014)

Yes indeed except for the extra waiting time for writing the data 


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## chuasam (Aug 19, 2014)

Mine has an affected serial number but I'm not letting my main body go away to fix a nonissue during  busy season 


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## fotofinish (Aug 19, 2014)

I won't be sending mine in anyway even though it is listed as affected. This really looks like a non-issue that Nikon is hoping to be seen to deal deal with EARLY (unlike the real D600 issue they procrastinated over and had the twittersphere go ballistic over).

And hey, I have learned a lot about noise and NR so far and am learning more the more I read, which is great. So let's have more 'problems' like this one.






chuasam said:


> Mine has an affected serial number but I'm not letting my main body go away to fix a nonissue during  busy season
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## gsgary (Aug 20, 2014)

cowleystjames said:


> Checked on my serial no today after an email from Nikon UK, and I've got one that needs to go back to Nikon.
> They've sent anpost paid label just have to drop it into a post office.
> But they're saying two to four weeks for repair!
> Two questions, is that timescale acceptable for a camera that I've had for only three weeks? And is it worth sending in to repair a function that I'm probably not going to use?


I would say yes if you wan to sell it you could be asked if it has be repaired also it could lead to bigger problems that Nikon are not telling you about


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## jaomul (Aug 20, 2014)

From what I'm reading it's not a bad issue(some unable to re create the problem).Having said that if I bought one and the serial was a listed I would send it back. To much money to have a question mark over its performance


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## chuasam (Aug 20, 2014)

I would wait till the sensor needed cleaning and then send it and get a free cleaning 


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## ruifo (Aug 20, 2014)

There are growing reports, from people in Australia and in Europe, who are taking their D810 in person to a Nikon repair center, saying that it is only a firmware update, that takes less than 45min, with the waiting time included. Source: forumers from the DPReview forum.


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## Tailgunner (Aug 20, 2014)

ruifo said:


> There are growing reports, from people in Australia and in Europe, who are taking their D810 in person to a Nikon repair center, saying that it is only a firmware update, that takes less than 45min, with the waiting time included. Source: forumers from the DPReview forum.



I'm not seeing a Firmware update for the D810 on Nikon's site. 

If and when Nikon does release an update, you don't need to take your camera in for it. Just download the update on a blank memory card (but not into a folder, it must be on top) and install said memory card in the camera. Then you scroll to firmware version in the setup menu. You just follow the directions listed on the LCD screen...there is usually an A and B update but it only takes about 10sec to upload either one.


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## ruifo (Aug 20, 2014)

^^
I'm not seeing this at Nikon website either.
But these are the growing reports.
Very confusing yet.


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## Tailgunner (Aug 20, 2014)

ruifo said:


> ^^
> I'm not seeing this at Nikon website either.
> But these are the growing reports.
> Very confusing yet.



Hopefully it's true and that a firmware update can correct the problem. I really love my D800 and want there to be a solid replacement when it comes time to need one.


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## ruifo (Aug 20, 2014)

Again, as seen on DPReview forums, and on NikonRumors.com, the firmware of those D810 returned after repair is being stated as "C 1.01". While the original firmware is "C 1.00".


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## djacobox372 (Aug 20, 2014)

runnah said:


> Thermal issues with long exposures is an issue all cameras face. The issue here isn't hardware, rather a software fix. The problem won't go away but rather will be fixed in camera. It makes me wonder if the issue will still show up in RAW files.



Strange my Nikon f100 doesn't have this issue. 

Kidding aside, you're right all digital cameras.have problems with long exposures. It stands to reason that more sensitive cameras like the d810 would suffer more.


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## Derrel (Aug 20, 2014)

ruifo said:


> Again, as seen on DPReview forums, and on NikonRumors.com, the firmware of those D810 returned after repair is being stated as "C 1.01". While the original firmware is "C 1.00".



This story only serves to validate the wisdom of that Internet-era saying, "*Never buy version one-point-oh-oh of anything!*"  ;-)

See...version 1.00 has an issue...which is corrected by version 1.01...


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## cowleystjames (Aug 21, 2014)

Bored with this whole scenario now so i tried mine. Sigma 50mm F1.4 art @30 seconds, LENR off, iso 100. Can't find anything that I can't replicate on my D4s if I look really hard. 
I'm not sending mine back as I don't believe there's anything wrong. 
This whole thing has been blown out of proportion by people who want to find fault. 
Just enjoy your photography


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## ruifo (Aug 21, 2014)

cowleystjames said:


> Bored with this whole scenario now so i tried mine. Sigma 50mm F1.4 art @30 seconds, LENR off, iso 100. Can't find anything that I can't replicate on my D4s if I look really hard.
> I'm not sending mine back as I don't believe there's anything wrong.
> This whole thing has been blown out of proportion by people who want to find fault.
> Just enjoy your photography



Agreed. Same here.


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## runnah (Aug 21, 2014)

I am still not seeing an issue. Goddamn pixels peepers and wolf criers need to simmer down.


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## cowleystjames (Aug 21, 2014)

runnah said:


> I am still not seeing an issue. Goddamn pixels peepers and wolf criers need to simmer down.



Here here! 

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## Vince.1551 (Aug 21, 2014)

I think I just saw 3 dead pixels -.-'


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## Braineack (Aug 21, 2014)




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## cowleystjames (Aug 23, 2014)

Change of heart after talking to tech doing repair.
Nikon certainly aren't just doing a firmware update.
After contact with Nikon UK, they have one technician trained to go through the re calibration process (their words). Note the words 're calibration process' 
After talking to said tech regarding being unable to replicate the error found by photography life, he stated that all cameras produce these hot pixels when pushed as stated, and sure enough, I can make my D4s produce similar results to my D810 when set to ISO 100, Lenr off, and an exposure of two minutes,
However, with Lenr on as he suggested,  I have no problems with so called hot pixels in either camera.
So may I suggest, part of the process undertaken is an enhancement of Lenr along with sensor calibration? 
I am going in to Nikon UK on Tuesday for mine to be 'fixed'. The tech reckons he can get it done within 25 minutes, but wouldn't elaborate on the fix any further.


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## Scatterbrained (Aug 23, 2014)

If it only takes 25 minutes it's just software.    Like I said before, it's nothing out of the ordinary, and people who regularly shoot long exposures are already used to it.  You should see what a 4 minute exposure from my camera looks like.     Nikon's just covering their butts because they took such a serious PR beating over the D600.


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## Vince.1551 (Sep 3, 2014)

Got my firmware updated. Also told them about the flimsy battery cover [emoji36]


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## zutty (Sep 3, 2014)

Received my new D810 on Aug. 23 and serial number says no repair needed on Nikon site and the firmware is 1.01 so I guess the "fix" is now being done before shipment.


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