# Stupid newbie mistakes buying lower end lightings from Amazon.  Please help.



## neih59 (Aug 1, 2012)

Hello masters.  1st I want to say that I already know I made mistakes by buying these items. I'm a newbie and very much want to learn the right way...hence i'm here.

So after reading through this forum, I realized that I got suckered by buying a bunch of stuff from Amazon.  Not saying that Amazon is bad, but the stuff that I bought from there, based on the unrealistic reviews, are not that great.

I wanted to setup a studio in a spare room in my house, and also a few gears to take outdoor.  So these are the items I bought.  Please let me know if they're of any use (beside trash can fillers), and let me know the equivalent items that are better or what you would recommend me getting instead.

1.   Amazon.com: Fotodiox 6"x8" Softbox for Nikon Flash, Canon Speedlight, for Nikon SB-600, SB-800, SB-900 Flash, Canon Speedlite 380EX, 430EX, 430EX II, 550EX, 580EX, 580EX II, Vivita Flash, Sunpack, Nissin,Sigma, Sony, Pentax, Olympus, Panasonica Lumix  < -- so I can take outdoor portraits with my 430ex.

2.   Amazon.com: Cowboystudio 16in Photography Beauty Dish For Canon Nikon EX430, EX580, SB800, SB600: Camera & Photo <--- in case I needed a bigger fill light outdoor.

3.   Amazon.com: CowboyStudio NPT-04 4 Channel Wireless Trigger for External Speelights with 1 Trigger and 2 Receivers (NPT-04+extra receiver): Camera & Photo  <--- to use for the above 2 items

4.   Amazon.com: Neewer 110CM 43" 5-in-1 Collapsible Multi-Disc Light Reflector: Camera & Photo  <--- self explanatory 

5.  Amazon.com: Fancierstudio 3000 Watt Digital Video Continuous Softbox Lighting Kit 9026S3 Fancierstudio: Camera & Photo    <--- I know I know...I wish I have a time machine.  But I really wanted some light for the studio, and since I'm a noob, I thought these would be easy to use.  Can I just buy good strobes and still use the same setup?  What's a good strobe on Amazon?


 I'm sorry for all the links, but I've been spending quite a bit of money, and my next few purchases, I want to do it right.  So any help is SOOOOO greatly appreciated.  

Thank you very much masters.  =)


Using:  Canon 7d : Canon Xti : 50mm 1.4f : 28-135mmf : 430ex speedlite


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## ColeGauthier (Aug 1, 2012)

Well if you already have the equipment, use it and see how it works... If it even does work out of the box. Get back to use once you've tested your hardware, then you can tell us what you dislike and then we can recommend better gear.


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## snowbear (Aug 1, 2012)

The reflectors (item #4) can be useful, but you may need a helper to position it.  As far as the rest, sure - try it out; it may help you learn a few things.


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## Designer (Aug 1, 2012)

neih59; IMO you didn't get hurt too badly.  The first four items are going to be useful for a variety of projects, and the studio lights can be a starting point in learning studio lighting.  3,000 watts sounds impressive, but I think eventually you will discover that it really isn't adequate over the long haul.


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## Robin Usagani (Aug 1, 2012)

1-4 are good purchase.  5.. not so much IMO.  But you can probably take out the continuous lighting and put your speedlites?


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## KmH (Aug 1, 2012)

If you're going to be shooting people, you will find the constant lights (item #5) have some issues because they are not strobes (flash).

The equivalent light output rating of 3000 W is a total of all the lights. Each light stand will deliver an equivalent of only 1000 W and it takes 1 second to deliver that amount of light.

In photography 1 second is a long time. To eliminate blur form camera shake and small subject movement a shutter speed of 1/100 is about as long a shutter speed you can use.
In 1/100 of a second, that 1000 W light only delivers 10 watts, less light than a hallway nightlight delivers.

Strobe lights deliver their light in very much shorter time frames. Studio type monolights flash in about 1/500 of a second at full power.

Using strobed light also gives the ability to control the ambient light exposure and the strobed light exposure separately with a single shutter release.


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## neih59 (Aug 1, 2012)

Thank you everyone for the advice and tips.  I have much to learn.

As I was afraid of, the light kit was not enough.  I used my media room with the projector screen as the background.  I tested the kit with only 2 lights setup (1 main and 1 pointing more to that white background).  I turned all ALL 5 bulbs inside the SB, but they still do not produce enough lighting...even though, to the naked eyes, they seem very bright.  But when I upload to my PC, I could see that they are not nearly as bright as I wanted.  So I ended up using my Canon 430ex as the main light, shooting from the front.  Here are 2 examples.  Please note that I'm new and the pictures aren't very good, but please CC so I can learn.  

1:  using 2 continues SB lights



2:  using Canon 430ex main, and 2 continues SB lights 


Is it possible to get one strobe light to use as the main light, and continue using the continues light as fill lights?  

I was thinking of this Cowboystudio strobe (I know a lot of you don't like this, but this seem to have good rating, but please do recommend a better one).

Or should I just get another Canon speedlite 580ex + my 430ex?


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## neih59 (Aug 1, 2012)

Opps..forgot to add the link to the strobe like I was thinking of getting.  Please advice on a better one  if you feel this is not good.

Amazon.com: Cowboystudio 400 Watt Photography Studio Monolight, Studio Strobe Light with 75 W Model Lamp: Camera & Photo

Thank you.


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## Robin Usagani (Aug 1, 2012)

I would get more speedlites (or chinese brands).  That way you can take it somewhere and you dont need big batteries.  

Remember, when you use continuous light, it doesnt stop motion.  So if you are using 85mm, you need very fast shutter speed to minimize blur.  The faster your shutter, the less light you get from your lighting.


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## KmH (Aug 1, 2012)

I would recommend you look beyond what Cowboy Studio offers.

For home studio use 150 watt seconds should be sufficient, though I recommend a minimum of 200 watt seconds.

I would recommend the Adorama house brand 150 ws - Flashpoint II 320M, 150 Watt Second AC / DC Monolight Strobe. 

Flashpoint II 620M, 300 Watt Second AC / DC Monolight Strobe. (D/C Operation Requires FP2PPN Battery Pack) 

I think this kit is a very good value for the money, and it uses Elinchrom style speedrings for mounting softboxes.
Calumet Genesis 200 2-Light Kit


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## jamesbjenkins (Aug 1, 2012)

neih59 said:
			
		

> Thank you everyone for the advice and tips.  I have much to learn.
> 
> As I was afraid of, the light kit was not enough.  I used my media room with the projector screen as the background.  I tested the kit with only 2 lights setup (1 main and 1 pointing more to that white background).  I turned all ALL 5 bulbs inside the SB, but they still do not produce enough lighting...even though, to the naked eyes, they seem very bright.  But when I upload to my PC, I could see that they are not nearly as bright as I wanted.  So I ended up using my Canon 430ex as the main light, shooting from the front.  Here are 2 examples.  Please note that I'm new and the pictures aren't very good, but please CC so I can learn.
> 
> ...



I can guarantee you that anyone who rates any CowboyStudio product as a 4 or 5 star product is not someone you want to take advice from. Hobbyist at best, Pro Fauxtographer at worst...


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## fjrabon (Aug 1, 2012)

I like a lot of the stuff cowboy studios makes, and I actually own those same triggers and they've served me well, but if you want big boy strobes, you gotta buy big boy strobes.  If you're not going to pony up for good strobes, you're better off just using speedlights.


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## Robin Usagani (Aug 1, 2012)

Thanks James... I use a lot of their product   Hahhaha.  What matters is the finish product.






jamesbjenkins said:


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## fjrabon (Aug 1, 2012)

jamesbjenkins said:


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I like some of their more basic stuff, and I bought their triggers as backups, and have never had a problem with them at all.  In fact I've had more issues with branded pocket wizards than those guys.

and a 6"X8" soft box is fairly hard to mess up.  Most of their umbrellas aren't particularly durable, but they work well until they start to deteriorate.


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## fjrabon (Aug 1, 2012)

Here's my ultimate thought on cowboy studio stuff: It works well in general, but is cheap in build.  What it generally allows is you can get two sets of everything for the price of one (or even cheaper) better known brand.  A lot of times I think it's actually safer to have a few sets of those cowboy studios radio triggers so that you have backups than stretching your budget and just having one pocketwizard brand trigger.  I was on a shoot just the other day where our pocket wizard failed.  Now the company I work for basically always takes a full duplicate rig to every shoot, so nothing can even possibly go wrong, and theyhave the money to do that.  But my personal stuff, I can't afford to have a pocket wizard branded set of triggers as a backup.  If I want backups, I'm buying cowboy studios, because to me, I'd rather have a backup set of triggers in case one fails, even if they fail more often than pocket wizard branded triggers, I'm safer than just relying on the pocket wizards to never fail.  

Same thought goes for many of their other products.  I've never found the actual results their stuff produces to be poor (as long as you buy the right thing for the job), but they will break down faster than a lastolite or like brand (depending on the product).


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## Robin Usagani (Aug 1, 2012)

Yeah, I have like 6 triggers and 3 transmitters.  If one breaks or runs out of battery, I can just grab another one.  If I lose one, I wont feel bad.. not that expensive.


You could also shoot 2-3 speedlites if you want more power.  They sell brackets for 2 or 3 speedlites.


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## neih59 (Aug 1, 2012)

KmH said:


> I would recommend you look beyond what Cowboy Studio offers.
> 
> For home studio use 150 watt seconds should be sufficient, though I recommend a minimum of 200 watt seconds.
> 
> ...



KmH -- Can't I just buy a strobe light alone and re-use the SB that I currently have?  Take out the continues lights and put in the strobe unit inside the SB?  And with the strobe light (excuse the ignorance), how to I trigger the strobe w/o wire?  I assume the trigger I have for the 430EX won't do.  

Schwettylens -- I see your point about shuttle speed with etiquette lighting. My pics are not as clear and bright as I wanted it to be.  I had to increase exposure in post.  I will also get a 580ex.

Jrabon -- I didn't say that I won't "pony up".  I'm asking for all your expertise on what I should get instead of what I got.  I will get it.  Your advice is very valuable to me.


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## jamesbjenkins (Aug 1, 2012)

Schwettylens said:
			
		

> Thanks James... I use a lot of their product   Hahhaha.  What matters is the finish product.



No offense intended. My experience with 4 or 5 of their products really early in my career was very poor. Everything broke or stopped working within a month or two.

Reading the reviews on Amazon, they all sound like a bunch of Best Buy allstars. Complete amateurs who only care about how inexpensive the product is.


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## Robin Usagani (Aug 1, 2012)

True.  Most of the products I expect it to be poorly made because they are cheap.  Some stuff I get on Amazon (not necessarily from Cowboy studio), I am blown away with the quality and how much I paid for it.  It doesnt make sense sometimes....  it is too good for the price.  It is crazy.



jamesbjenkins said:


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## jwbryson1 (Aug 1, 2012)

Schwettylens said:


> Thanks James... I use a lot of their product   Hahhaha.  What matters is the finish product.




I also use the Cowboy Studios triggers but I find them a bit of a hassle to use and pretty flimsy.  Having said that, I think they have worked fine so far.  No big complaints.


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## fjrabon (Aug 1, 2012)

jwbryson1 said:


> Schwettylens said:
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> > Thanks James... I use a lot of their product   Hahhaha.  What matters is the finish product.
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Yeah, they definitely feel flimsy.  The feel issue sort of irks me a little bit, especially since I use real pocket wizards every day at work.


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## Designer (Aug 2, 2012)

neih59 said:


> I ended up using my Canon 430ex as the main light, shooting from the front. Now these pictures are pretty good, lighting concerns not with standing.



  In the first picture, the little girl has her face turned downward, but we can still see that her face is underexposed.  The second one is much better with the speedlight. 





neih59 said:


> Is it possible to get one strobe light to use as the main light, and continue using the continues light as fill lights? Or should I just get another Canon speedlite 580ex + my 430ex?



I don't know the answer to this, but you can do some experiments trying your idea.  If there is going to be trouble, it will probably be in the white balance.  Furthermore, with the continuous lights on, you cannot control the exposure for the background as you can with speedlights.  Remember; the aperture controls ambient light.  I'm with Schwettylens in recommending more speedlights.


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## Buckster (Aug 2, 2012)

jamesbjenkins said:


> Schwettylens said:
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Maybe they're getting better with time and experience.  How long ago was "early in your career"?



jamesbjenkins said:


> Reading the reviews on Amazon, they all sound like a bunch of Best Buy allstars. Complete amateurs who only care about how inexpensive the product is.


And yet, it's working for them as they start their learning process, and it's not costing them much as they begin to dip their toes into the water.  I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.  I think that it's entirely possible also that of those thousands of positive reviews, there may actually be some experienced shooters mixed in with those "Best Buy allstars" who are satisified with the price to quality ratio of the products.

I've never actually purchased anything from CS, but I've got several pieces of similar Chinese "junk" gear around that, even after several years, still works just fine, including a few lights, modifiers, triggers and hardware.  Much of it I've replaced with better gear over the years, and go to it first.  But in a pinch, the "crap" still works very well for me.  I suppose if I were to review them, my reviews would be worthy of such ridicule as well.  After all, how could anyone who knows anything give cheap products good reviews, right?


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## Robin Usagani (Aug 2, 2012)

Here is the list of product from amazon I am very impressed with:


Amazon.com: Titanium Smart Fast 16 Bay Ni-MH AA/AAA Battery Charger AC 100-240V + DC Adapters MD-1600L: Camera & Photo
Amazon.com: CowboyStudio Photography 3-Roller Wall Mounting Manual Background Support System: Camera & Photo
Amazon.com: Cowboystudio External Flash Battery Pack for Canon 580EX, 580EX II, 550EX, 540EZ, MR-14EX, & MT-24EX Speedlite Flash Units: Camera & Photo
Amazon.com: Storacell by Powerpax "AA" 12 Pack Battery Caddy, Yellow - Holds 12 "AA" Batteries: Electronics


These two below are incredibly good
Amazon.com: PBL Light Stands PRO Heavy Duty 7&#39;6" SET Carry Bags of Two, All Metal Locking Collars Not Plastic by PBL: Camera & Photo
Amazon.com: Strobist Umbrella Holder with Hot Shoe Mount: Camera & Photo


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## jamesbjenkins (Aug 2, 2012)

My experiences with CS were about 4 years ago. I haven't touched them since then. I have PCB Cybersyncs now, but I'm about to move to the new Plus III's.


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## Buckster (Aug 2, 2012)

"Really early in my career" = "about 4 years ago".

Noted, and thanks.


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## Robin Usagani (Aug 2, 2012)

Buckster said:


> "Really early in my career" = "about 4 years ago".
> 
> Noted, and thanks.




Come on buckster.  Why do you have to be like that toward people who have not shot since black and white film days?


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