# beginner photographer questions



## Cindymag5 (Aug 16, 2016)

Hi everyone,
I live in Utah, and I have a few questions for someone that might be able to help me. But first a little bit about myself.
I have always appreciated a good picture, and have always owned a camera, but have always shot in auto mode.
I have been self teaching myself and have practicing a lot to shoot in manual mode.
I am a stay at home mom of 3 boys, my husband is the bread winner, and I am thankful that I can stay at home and be able to raise my kids, but I would love to take portrait photography as a hobby.
So, I was wanting to ask you guys this.
can I/is it allowed for me to get some clients, and take their pictures and put a watermark on them without me getting a business license, registering a name and pay for taxes?
I would really appreciate your input on this. thanks.


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## KmH (Aug 16, 2016)

You do not have to be a business to watermark photographs you make.

Check with your City Clerk and the State of Utah Department of Revenue.
The city where you live likely has their own requirements separate from the state's requirements.
The State of Utah, like all other states, wants any business to collect and forward to them all sales tax dollars they are due.
Registering a business with the state is likely required if you have paying 'clients'.

http://www.tax.utah.gov/forms/pubs/pub-25.pdf


> *Starting a New Business*
> If you are starting a new business, see Publication 38, Doing Business in Utah, at tax.utah.gov/forms.


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## Cindymag5 (Aug 17, 2016)

Thank you so much KmH! I will check it out tomorrow morning!


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## Designer (Aug 17, 2016)

The key is, of course, money.  If money changes hands, it is subject to being reported and taxed.  Some amateurs elect to forego any payment while just learning and practicing.  You can find people to pose for you by offering them some prints that they can frame up and keep or give away to family.  

Meanwhile, start writing your business plan and calling your city, your state, the feds, your insurance man, a lawyer, an accountant, and a mentor.  You will need something from all those sooner or later.  For instance; you can get your federal tax I.D. at any time, and it's free and easy, but don't do that until you are ready to start charging money.


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## 480sparky (Aug 17, 2016)

Locate your local Small Business Administration office.

Shouldn't this thread be in the Aspiring Professionals forum?


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## terri (Aug 17, 2016)

Yep, agreed, Sparky - thread moved, thanks!


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## otherprof (Aug 17, 2016)

Cindymag5 said:


> Hi everyone,
> I live in Utah, and I have a few questions for someone that might be able to help me. But first a little bit about myself.
> I have always appreciated a good picture, and have always owned a camera, but have always shot in auto mode.
> I have been self teaching myself and have practicing a lot to shoot in manual mode.
> ...


You've already gotten excellent advice from others here. I just add: Make sure your insurance will cover any injuries, etc. by people tripping over a kid's toy or rug. And check with an accountant to see if there are any deductions you can take if you dedicate one room in the house as your business area/studio.


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## KmH (Aug 17, 2016)

Starting & Managing a Business | The U.S. Small Business Administration | SBA.gov
SCORE | Free Small Business Advice
Copyright Basics



> *How to Secure a Copyright*
> Copyright Secured Automatically upon Creation The way in which copyright protection is secured is frequently misunderstood. No publication or registration or other action in the Copyright Office is required to secure copyright. See the following note. There are, however, certain definite advantages to registration. See Copyright Registration on page 7.
> 
> Copyright is secured automatically when the work is created, and a work is “created” when it is fixed in a copy or phonorecord for the first time. “Copies” are material objects from which a work can be read or visually perceived either directly or with the aid of a machine or device, such as books, manuscripts, sheet music, film, videotape, or microfilm.


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## dennybeall (Aug 17, 2016)

As has become obvious, Photography is one thing and "Business" is something else altogether.
You have an ideal situation for having a small Schedule "C" sole proprietorship business. You can have the business, make sure that it losses money *for tax purposes* and deduct the loss from your spouses income and pay less income tax. The small business stuff is almost as interesting as photography!
Check with your local SCORE Chapter for free help with this.


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## The_Traveler (Aug 17, 2016)

Before you get all wound up in the business side, you might try taking pictures on demand.
Idle snapping when there is nothing at risk is one thing, making clients look like they want to look is quite another.
You might find the demands of having clients takes too much of the fun out of it for you.


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## 480sparky (Aug 17, 2016)

The_Traveler said:


> .....You might find the demands of having clients takes too much of the fun out of it for you.



That's precisely why I don't do commission work these days.

Want to pay me to take photos? Not interested. Want to give me money for a photo I took somewhere? Sure thing.


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## vintagesnaps (Aug 17, 2016)

I think this would put you into business. Try http;//asmp.org or PPA to get an idea what's going to be involved.

All may go well but it's necessary to be prepared for various situations that can arise when working with people/clients. And having them traipsing in and out of your house? you probably need to find out if it's legal to run a studio out of your home, or will it look like you've made a sideline of being the neighborhood drug dealer?!? (You can tell I worked in a city where in some places, that's what comes to mind!).

I'd suggest you keep practicing and getting good at shooting manually. Learn what's going to be involved in photography as a business. Then see where it goes from there, it's going to take time to learn it all to be able to do it successfully. It might be something to start learning now to be able to do as your kids get older.


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## The_Traveler (Aug 17, 2016)

There is another issue you might also consider.

I'm pretty experienced in certain niches and editing but, if I were to take up portrait photography, I would have a great good bit of practicing to do. 
The expectations that people have for pictures they pay for might be well above your current ability and may require significant investment in time, effort and actual money to acquire.


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## KmH (Aug 18, 2016)

dennybeall said:


> You can have the business, make sure that it losses money *for tax purposes* and deduct the loss from your spouses income and pay less income tax. .


Below are links explaining why that might not be a good tactic.
In essence, there is a built-in time limit if you're not able to make a profit.
Is It a Business or a Hobby?  | The U.S. Small Business Administration | SBA.gov
Business or Hobby? Answer Has Implications for Deductions


> Added emphasis.
> _. . . The IRS presumes that an activity is carried on for profit_* if it makes a profit during at least three of the last five tax years*, including the current year . . .
> *. . . If an activity is not for profit, losses from that activity may not be used to offset other income*. An activity produces a loss when related expenses exceed income. . .


In other words, if you don't show a profit the IRS can re-classify your 'business' as a hobby and disallow deductions based on not having made a profit in previous tax years.
When they notify you of the re-classification, a bill for back taxes is usually included.


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## dennybeall (Aug 18, 2016)

Gosh, I just made it up without any knowledge or experience to back it up.
If you are trying to make a profit and are not able to, you can deduct the loses for 3 of the 5 years. The other years you just claim "zero" deduction even though you show the loss on your Schedule "C".
The paragraphs stated are in relation to people with a "hobby" business. Primarily came from folks with dogs and horses trying to claim them as a business. If you're *trying to make a profit you're fine*.
I have had 5 businesses over 20+ years and some years made a profit and some years didn't. Have never had a problem. The key is the way "profit" is determined for tax purposes. Expenses are deducted from income and the expenses are what makes it work. It's complicated and a lot of study or a tax lawyer is needed to get it right but it's well worth it.
Example: If I have a business doing landscape photos I can travel to the Grand Canyon to take photos and it's mostly tax deductible. Is there a market for the pics ?? Who knows. The IRS can only get me for claiming expenses I didn't have, they can't get me for poor business judgement.
I'm babbling but hopefully you get the idea.


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## Designer (Aug 18, 2016)

dennybeall said:


> Is there a market for the pics ??


Yes, there most certainly is a market for excellent photographs.


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## Vtec44 (Aug 18, 2016)

It's probably best to consult your CPA and/or local certified tax person vs listening to someone's tax advice over the internet.... but that's just me.


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## TheLibrarian (Aug 18, 2016)

Not allowed but not really enforced either. You're not allowed to mow your neighbors lawn on occassion or have a lemonade stand.


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## TamingRoman (Aug 24, 2016)

Cindymag5 said:


> Hi everyone,
> I live in Utah, and I have a few questions for someone that might be able to help me. But first a little bit about myself.
> I have always appreciated a good picture, and have always owned a camera, but have always shot in auto mode.
> I have been self teaching myself and have practicing a lot to shoot in manual mode.
> ...


  You sound like a good guy.  Sounds like you work hard and study.  Please know you will pay, should pay around %35 percent in taxes. If you do things right, you need a few thousand in equipment, and then deduct for work expenses.  Good luck with all you do.


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