# Just developed my first batch of B&W film. Questions though.



## warheit12 (Aug 16, 2013)

When I first took the negatives out of the developing tank they looked fine, so I set them to dry, but when they were dry I noticed that the negative had some spots on them. Do I need to like somehow wipe the negatives down afterwards? How do i do that without touching the negative directly? I heard your not supposed to do that. 


Also, Scanning the film? I do not have enlargers or darkroom so i tried to scan them on my flatbed scanner but they turned out blurry. I really dont want to go to like CVS or Walgreens to have my negatives scanned.


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## gsgary (Aug 16, 2013)

Did you wash them after fixing ?


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## tirediron (Aug 16, 2013)

You've got water-spots on your negatives; absolutely normal from drying, IF you don't use a wetting agent.  You need something like Photo-Flo for the final rinse which will create a film and the water will "slide off".  As for scanning, you need something like the V700 or another scanner with a dedicated negative scanning capability.


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## Light Guru (Aug 16, 2013)

warheit12 said:


> When I first took the negatives out of the developing tank they looked fine, so I set them to dry, but when they were dry I noticed that the negative had some spots on them. Do I need to like somehow wipe the negatives down afterwards? How do i do that without touching the negative directly? I heard your not supposed to do that.



After your final rinse did you use photoflo? It helps with preventing spots.  Plenty of people touch the negatives and ether get the bulk of the water off with there fingers or use film squeegees or sponges. 




warheit12 said:


> Also, Scanning the film? I do not have enlargers or darkroom so i tried to scan them on my flatbed scanner but they turned out blurry. I really dont want to go to like CVS or Walgreens to have my negatives scanned.



Well a couple of things could be the reason for them being blurry once scanned.  It could be that the image on the negative is out of focus (have you inspected the negatives with a loop or magnifying glass? It may also be the scanner is causing the blurry scans.  What kind of scanner are you using?


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## warheit12 (Aug 16, 2013)

Oh ok I never used photoflo, ugh so many chemicals lol. Question though

Paterson PTP211 Film Squeegee PTP211


Can I just use that instead of photoflo? Or Am I just not understanding what photoflo does lol.


Oh and I know this might not be the right board to ask but 

Amazon.com : Epson B11B189011 Perfection V500 Photo Scanner : Electronics

that scanner is my price range, will it make more clear negatives? Right now I am using a cheap all in one scanner printer thing. I am sure atleast some of the photos i took were in focus, I have had labs develop and send me my scans before and they come out really amazing. 
[h=1][/h]


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## tirediron (Aug 16, 2013)

ALWAYS use Photo-flo!  I'm not a fan of negative squeegees; all it takes is one little particle of grit to get trapped in the rubber and you have a 36-exposure long scratch.  My process was to wash in fresh, running water for 10 minutes, the add two-three drops of Photo-flo to the tank, plunge the roll in and gently swirl it around for a moment, than remove the film from the water, shake, take it off the reel, and hang it to dry.  Remember to put a weight on the bottom (I used a couple of plastic clothes pins) so that the film doesn't dry with a severe curl.


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## limr (Aug 16, 2013)

warheit12 said:


> Amazon.com : Epson B11B189011*Perfection*V500*Photo*Scanner : Electronics
> 
> that scanner is my price range, will it make more clear negatives? Right now I am using a cheap all in one scanner printer thing. I am sure atleast some of the photos i took were in focus, I have had labs develop and send me my scans before and they come out really amazing.



You need a scanner that is specifically for negatives. The all-in-one scanner/printer/fax isn't going to work.

So yes, the Epson Photo Scanner or something like it is what you need.


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## gsgary (Aug 16, 2013)

warheit12 said:


> Oh ok I never used photoflo, ugh so many chemicals lol. Question though
> 
> Paterson PTP211 Film Squeegee PTP211
> 
> ...



I use the V500 and it is very good search my posts and you will see lots of scans with it


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## Light Guru (Aug 16, 2013)

warheit12 said:


> Am I just not understanding what photoflo does



Your not fully understanding what photoflo does.

From Kodak's website.

-Decreases water-surface tension
-Minimizes water marks and streaks on film
-Promotes faster, more uniform drying


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## KenC (Aug 16, 2013)

An alternative to Photo-Flo, which I never liked handling, is to do an extra wash (just briefly) in distilled water (available in any supermarket) and then squeegee.  The distilled water has no minerals in it, so assuming you've washed the fixer out, there is nothing that could deposit on the film to make a spot.  I just rinsed the squeegee with a little of the distilled water and wiped it with my fingers and I never got a scratch on the film from it.


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## warheit12 (Aug 16, 2013)

Thanks for the help I went ahead and looked up photoflo, and its cheap and seems to last a while so I ordered that.


I also ordered the V500, because I really had fun shooting film and I think I want to shoot alot more so this will be a good investment.

You all are great help thank you


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## webestang64 (Aug 17, 2013)

The V500 or the V700 I own is just OK for scanning 35mm. If you go to a lab, just make sure they have a Noritzu 1800 film scanner. I use one at work, brilliant scanner, better than my Nikon Coolscan 9000 I use at home.


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## bsinmich (Aug 17, 2013)

I have been using the squeegee method for 60 years and have not gotten a scratch yet.  I keep that squeegee totally away from anything else and it only  comes out when  I am doing film.


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## Gavjenks (Aug 17, 2013)

Distilled water is probably all in all a better option than photo flo, assuming you have a ready source of distilled water nearby (i.e. a close grocery store that sells it, or a car).  

Photo flo is usually the most toxic chemical in the dark room, for one thing.
It also requires yet another special container and you often want to save it for a few uses so you don't use up unnecessary amounts of photo flo
And it can be a little streaky if you use too much, blah blah.

Distilled water on the other hand is obviously totally safe, cheap, can be used in any container or even just poured over, and just like photo flo, does not require any squeegeeing or anything else (there is nothing dissolved in it to create spots with drying, so it doesn't matter if it dries in individual droplets or not, unlike tap water).




Also, if you own a macro lens or a nice set of extension tubes and some lighting equipment, consider the possibility of simply taking a PHOTO of your negatives (a digital one), instead of buying an expensive scanner and likely struggling with annoying software and slower loading and scanning.

From the floor up, the setup would be:
1) flash, 
2) 2-3 sheets of white fabric (multiple layers of diffusers), space a couple inches apart. Could be stapled in place inside of a small cardboard box or something.  Or if you have a small softbox with double diffusers, then just use that.
3) Two panes of glass, sandwiching the film between them. I suspend mine from just a pair of kitchen stools, above the flash and fabric.
4) a camera with a macro lens, or a 50mm or similar lens with extension tubes. Lay it directly on the glass, or possibly with a small spacer, such that you can focus right on the film perfectly, and a single 35mm piece takes up almost the entire frame.
5) Hook up the flash with a wireless remote or PC cord.
6) Set to f/11 or so for maximum across the frame sharpness, adjust flash strength appropriately.

Once you get it all set up, you can just go click, slide the camera over on top of the next shot, click, slide, click, slide, click slide, 5 or 6 at a time, then lift the glass and pull the film to the next 5 or 6.

Can process almost a shot every couple of seconds. And then use your RAW converter to fix any exposures that might vary from shot to shot on the roll, and contrast as desired, and you're off to the races.


WAY faster than a scanner once you get going, and still delivers about 4,000 DPI, which is right up there near the theoretical maximum of what your film can possibly hold, even under the most optimum of conditions when you took that photo (rock steady film camera, great lens, nailed focus, etc.)


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## maris (Aug 19, 2013)

Gavjenks said:


> > Distilled water is probably all in all a better  option than photo flo, assuming you have a ready source of distilled  water nearby (i.e. a close grocery store that sells it, or a car).
> 
> 
> No, Photo flo with distilled water is better.
> ...


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## lenny_eiger (Aug 27, 2013)

I buy FormaFlo from Photographer's formulary. One trick I learned about 40 years ago: Don't just leave it in there for a few seconds. Leave it in for 3 minutes. then when you hang the film it will actually do what its supposed to, dry as a single sheet of water all at once. 

When it comes to scanning, take a look at film scanners like the Nikon. The biggest problem you have is your film size. (I think we are talking about 35 mm....) It's so small that its like starting out with two strikes. I have a scanner that can scan 35mm at 8000 api/ppi/dpi of resolution, and do it at 80,000 of optical as well. These aren't cheap, I have it because I scan professionally for a living. However, while the Espon and other flatbeds can do ok with 4x5 and 8x10, they are hard pressed to do well with film that small. They just don't have the resolution, which is down around 2000 or so. The walgreens/walmart type cheap scans are much worse.

The best thing you can do if you want better quality is move up in film size... even medium format, 6x7, for example, has 5 times the film area to work with. Of course, take your time and enjoy your first success.....


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## Josh66 (Sep 2, 2013)

Gavjenks said:


> Distilled water is probably all in all a better option than photo flo, assuming you have a ready source of distilled water nearby (i.e. a close grocery store that sells it, or a car).



I use distilled water for everything - including Photo-Flo.  Probably not really necessary, but I've had water related issues before, so I play it safe now.  Distilled water is cheap here (80 cents a gallon) - I've heard that it can be prohibitively expensive in Europe...

I squeegee color film, only because I always get water spots from the stabilizer if I don't - even with distilled water.  B&W, I use Photo-Flo in distilled water and let it drip dry - never had a water spot.  I want to say that Photo-Flo is about $10 a bottle ... I think I've been working out of the same bottle for around 2 years now.  Mix it at the ratio stated on the bottle - 200 parts water to 1 part Photo-Flo.  I never reuse it - it's so cheap that I can't even imagine wanting to.

If you're worried about toxicity, wear gloves.


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## belletristicbeauty (Sep 3, 2013)

tirediron said:


> ALWAYS use Photo-flo!  I'm not a fan of negative squeegees; all it takes is one little particle of grit to get trapped in the rubber and you have a 36-exposure long scratch.  My process was to wash in fresh, running water for 10 minutes, the add two-three drops of Photo-flo to the tank, plunge the roll in and gently swirl it around for a moment, than remove the film from the water, shake, take it off the reel, and hang it to dry.  Remember to put a weight on the bottom (I used a couple of plastic clothes pins) so that the film doesn't dry with a severe curl.



This is exactly what I was taught--and do. Then you don't get scratches.


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## PhotoCalifornia (Jan 17, 2014)

After I wash my negitivesm I get a windsheld wiper and go over themto get any excess water off. migh help. I got a small one for 2.50. good luck


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## minicoop1985 (Jan 18, 2014)

Now THAT is creative, PhotoCalifornia.

Just reading and learning. Your questions help people like me who are thinking of getting into developing.


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## PhotoCalifornia (Jan 19, 2014)

minicoop1985 said:


> Now THAT is creative, PhotoCalifornia.
> 
> Just reading and learning. Your questions help people like me who are thinking of getting into developing.



I set my whole darkroom on a tight budget. My tables are doors from a habitat from humanity store (5 dollars a piece) and use saw horses for legs(free on cregslist) I got my equipment for 200$ It includes too enlargers, and a lot of other goodies. If you are hoping to get into developing look on cregslist, ebay and thrift shops, and keep an open mind on what you can use ( like doors for tables, and windshield wiper for squeegee)   http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/darkroom/349940-got-set-up.html#post3141427   Here are some pictures  of my set up


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## webestang64 (Jan 21, 2014)

tirediron said:


> ALWAYS use Photo-flo!  I'm not a fan of negative squeegees; all it takes is one little particle of grit to get trapped in the rubber and you have a 36-exposure long scratch.  My process was to wash in fresh, running water for 10 minutes, the add two-three drops of Photo-flo to the tank, plunge the roll in and gently swirl it around for a moment, than remove the film from the water, shake, take it off the reel, and hang it to dry.  Remember to put a weight on the bottom (I used a couple of plastic clothes pins) so that the film doesn't dry with a severe curl.



AGREED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NEVER squeegee any film!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ALWAYS USE PHOTO FLO! I've been processing film professionally (in photo labs) for 25 years and have never used anything but Photo Flo. 

Photo Flo 200..................200 parts water to one part Photo Flo. Set film, still on reel, in the bath for 30 secs. Take off reel, tilt film so the excess flows off and hang to dry. Perfect every time and not a mark or spot on the film.


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## vimwiz (Jan 21, 2014)

Use a wetting agent, and also use a squeegee.


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