# Shooting in MANUAL mode and still blurry pics! HELP!



## lizg (Aug 7, 2011)

Help, I'm new to this forum, I decided to join to get some help. I'm really frustrated and I know that I am doing something wrong...I recently purchased a Vivitar 85mm lens- 1.4, its a beautiful bright lens for portraits for the price and would be even more phenomenal if I can learn to control using it! Here's what I'm doing... my camera is set to "manual" mode, I'm anywhere from 1.4-3.5 F stop because I want great DOF. I'm shooting outdoors at 4-5pm (Summer) in a wide open field, lots of nice diffused light, no camera flash, no reflectors just me, the model and the camera....I'm also 5-6 feet away from her at times, I change my position a lot when shooting to get different angles. While focusing however, I'm not moving a bit, I focus on her face, compose the shot, look through my viewfinder and it looks amazing so I continue, when I get home and load the pics up on the computer they are all out of focus and I'm being disappointed! What went wrong? I'm in manual mode and the image looked clear as crystal through the viewfinder but obviously they are not. Please help me figure out what I'm doing wrong. Thanks so much!


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## nazster14 (Aug 7, 2011)

I was having the same problem but recently i just use autofocus and after focusing turn it into manual focus. i am not sure what camera you have but try doing what i said or you can bump up the shutter speed to 9-11 and after taking the picture zoom and see if the pic is blurry will save you a trip.


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## lizg (Aug 7, 2011)

The Vivitar lens is ONLY manual unfortunately...I'm shooting with a Canon 1D Mark II...I added it to my profile but for some reason its not showing..anyways my shutter speed may have been an issue I believe I was at 30 or 40...


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## 480sparky (Aug 7, 2011)

Post some sample photos.


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## KmH (Aug 7, 2011)

At the aperture range you are using it's likely the DOF (depth-of-field) is so shallow there is no way to get everything in focus you want to be in focus.


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## e.rose (Aug 7, 2011)

480sparky said:


> Post some sample photos.


 


KmH said:


> At the aperture range you are using it's likely the DOF (depth-of-field) is so shallow there is no way to get everything in focus you want to be in focus.



Both of these^^^

If you show us sample shots we can better determine what it is.


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## lizg (Aug 7, 2011)

Ahh good point KmH! Thanks! Here is a sample photo of yesterday...there are many others like this ... I did get some good ones luckily, not sure how that happened but I'm thankful for those ones. Is that the norm when in manual mode? Is it normal to get some bad out of focus shots?? Maybe I'm beating myself up too much? Clearly, I'm not a technical photographer, I'm self taught and learning a lot along the way but I"ve been stumped with this new lens..its really challenging me to learn some techniques which is good!


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## lizg (Aug 7, 2011)

Ahh good point KmH! Thanks! Here is a sample photo of yesterday...there are many others like this ... I did get some good ones luckily, not sure how that happened but I'm thankful for those ones. Is that the norm when in manual mode? Is it normal to get some bad out of focus shots?? Maybe I'm beating myself up too much? Clearly, I'm not a technical photographer, I'm self taught and learning a lot along the way but I"ve been stumped with this new lens..its really challenging me to learn some techniques which is good! <br><br>


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## lizg (Aug 7, 2011)

I can't seem to upload the pic? I hit the pic icon, select the image, it uploaded fine and not showing? errrr hold on, let me keep trying this...


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## e.rose (Aug 7, 2011)

lizg said:


> Ahh good point KmH! Thanks! Here is a sample photo of yesterday...there are many others like this ... I did get some good ones luckily, not sure how that happened but I'm thankful for those ones. *Is that the norm when in manual mode? Is it normal to get some bad out of focus shots??* Maybe I'm beating myself up too much? Clearly, I'm not a technical photographer, I'm self taught and learning a lot along the way but I"ve been stumped with this new lens..its really challenging me to learn some techniques which is good!



First of all... there's no image.

Second of all... only if you, as a photographer, take bad, out of focus shots.

The mode you're shooting in has nothing to do with it.  It's just your inexperience as a photographer.  Again, once we see images we can probably help you better with what you should do differently.  :sillysmi:

And also... it helps to post your settings for each image (shutter speed, aperture, ISO).


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## lizg (Aug 7, 2011)

I've uploaded the pic 6 times, I made it small 600 x 400 pixels and its a jpg...clearly this is simple and I upload images all the time, not sure why its not working on my end...something special I'm missing here? This seems so bizarre....


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## lizg (Aug 7, 2011)

Since I only register an hour ago, I guess I"m still awaiting approval to submit images? Not sure but I honestly cannot post any images? Is there a setting I need ot turn on/turn off?


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## Railphotog (Aug 7, 2011)

You'll need to host you photos on an external site such as Photobucket, then post the links with  on them so they'll show up in your post.   

And if you're using 1/40 and 1/50 as shutter speeds then you're probably too slow and getting motion blur as you move the camera around.


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## Sonoma (Aug 7, 2011)

Try reading thru this information.  It should help for posting pictures.

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...forum-functions-pictoral-guide-using-tpf.html

Good luck
Gary


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## lizg (Aug 7, 2011)

lol! right! I was under the impression the little image icon here would just insert my pic...clearly not, well here it is through tinypic and Railphotog, I can see how the shutter speed was a problem...that helps!


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## e.rose (Aug 7, 2011)

It's exactly what KMH said.

Your DOF is too shallow.

Look at the plants in front of her... they're perfectly sharp, but she's not.  You missed focus... focused on the plants... and the DOF is too shallow to reach to her.

You needed to use a smaller aperture.

What were your settings on that image?


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## enzodm (Aug 7, 2011)

lizg said:


> The Vivitar lens is ONLY manual unfortunately...I'm shooting with a Canon 1D Mark II...I added it to my profile but for some reason its not showing..anyways my shutter speed may have been an issue I believe I was at 30 or 40...



With a 1D, you even do not have the excuse of a bad viewfinder, it is just matter of exercise. 
However, as already pointed out by others, 1/30 is way too slow for a 85mm lens. The rule of thumb tells at least 1/focal length. 
In addition, here you may calculate DoF: Depth of Field Table . You can see that at 1.4, 2 meter of distance, DoF is 4cm. You need to have a sure aim  , or exercise with more forgiving DoF (at 3.5 is about 13cm). Again, put some sample with EXIF data, this will help to analyze the specific reason.

Regarding signature, most likely it does not show because you put an URL in it.

EDIT: sample arrived while posting this. 1/125s, not bad, and bad focus.


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## c.cloudwalker (Aug 7, 2011)

I'm surprised no one has picked up on the fact that the OP doesn't get the aperture/depth of field thingy.

"I'm anywhere from 1.4-3.5 F stop because I want great DOF."

Well, that's quite the opposite of what to do and when you have shallow DOF, you need to focus very carefully.


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## lizg (Aug 7, 2011)

I see...my setting for that image is: 1/125 of a second, ISO 50, 1.4 F stop 

When I looked through the VF everything looked clear which confuses me how would I know if its sharp if the VF misguides me?? I guess my settings were off as well as me not focusing on her face that time?


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## enzodm (Aug 7, 2011)

c.cloudwalker said:


> I'm surprised no one has picked up on the fact that the OP doesn't get the aperture/depth of field thingy.
> 
> "I'm anywhere from 1.4-3.5 F stop because I want great DOF."
> 
> Well, that's quite the opposite of what to do and when you have shallow DOF, you need to focus very carefully.



Well, I thought at it but I decided to interpret "great" in metaphorical sense. Lizg, please confirm you know what you are doing  .


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## e.rose (Aug 7, 2011)

lizg said:


> I see...my setting for that image is: 1/125 of a second, ISO 50, 1.4 F stop
> 
> When I looked through the VF everything looked clear which confuses me how would I know if its sharp if the VF misguides me?? I guess my settings were off as well as me not focusing on her face that time?



When you're *close* to being focused on your subject, it can look like you're dead on in the VF.  Think about how tiny the view finder is... its going to be really hard to distinguish between dead on and almost on.

If you would have just opened up your aperture a bit more, you probably would have been okay.


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## enzodm (Aug 7, 2011)

lizg said:


> I see...my setting for that image is: 1/125 of a second, ISO 50, 1.4 F stop
> 
> When I looked through the VF everything looked clear which confuses me how would I know if its sharp if the VF misguides me?? I guess my settings were off as well as me not focusing on her face that time?



again, it is matter of exercise, not that VF misguides you. 4cm DoF means that if you breath while shooting, you are out. Shoot a sequence and choose the best. Use a tripod, so that at least the camera is always in the same position. I regularly manually focus because I use old lenses, but I have also a 1000D, with pentamirror instead of pentaprism and smaller VF size that make things harder; however it is feasible.


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## lizg (Aug 7, 2011)

In my previous post, I mentioned I'm "self taught", please remember this is a "beginners" forum if I were a super savy know it all photographer I would not be asking stupid questions that is the obvious for most of you experienced photographers so please be kind in your response k, in enzodm's comment "Lizg, please confirm you know what you are doing" isn't it clear that I don't? I'm learning the ropes on a very broad field here, One thing I can say is I have a good eye but I'm learning a lot as I go. I don't profess to be a professional just having fun as I learn...I appreciate everyones help and response here, thank you all so much. If there is anything else I can read or learn please feel free to share with me, I'm a sponge right now!!


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## c.cloudwalker (Aug 7, 2011)

You do not see the DOF in your viewfinder unless you go into DOF preview. At least that's the way it was with my film cameras. I don't use my DSLR much so some one will correct me if I'm wrong...

However, it would help to understand DOF correctly. 1.4 will give you the least amount of DOF also known as the shallowest. The smaller the f number, the less DOF you get. The bigger the number the more you get. I know it's weird because it is the exact opposite of light but you need to understand those principles.


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## e.rose (Aug 7, 2011)

lizg said:


> In my previous post, I mentioned I'm "self taught", please remember this is a "beginners" forum if I were a super savy know it all photographer I would not be asking stupid questions that is the obvious for most of you experienced photographers so please be kind in your response k, in enzodm's comment "Lizg, please confirm you know what you are doing" isn't it clear that I don't? I'm learning the ropes on a very broad field here, One thing I can say is I have a good eye but I'm learning a lot as I go. I don't profess to be a professional just having fun as I learn...I appreciate everyones help and response here, thank you all so much. If there is anything else I can read or learn please feel free to share with me, I'm a sponge right now!!



He was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.  Not saying you should already know everything.

Everyone is well aware this is the beginner's forum.

I, myself, am self-taught and have used this forum for it's great many resources and helpful members... it would probably behoove you to not be so defensive, because if you thought that was... harsh... then you're not going to last very long here, haha   And I mean that in the kindest way possible.

You need a tough skin to ask for C&C and for help here... everyone is *extremely* helpful, but a lot of the times people mis-interpret helpful critique for "rudeness" or "harshness towards a beginner".

Enzodm didn't mean either of those things.  Again, he was simply trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.  :sillysmi:

No one expects you to know everything... or much of anything, for that matter.  Just keep posting and asking your questions.  :sillysmi:


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## e.rose (Aug 7, 2011)

c.cloudwalker said:


> You do not see the DOF in your viewfinder unless you go into DOF preview. At least that's the way it was with my film cameras. I don't use my DSLR much so some one will correct me if I'm wrong...



No, you're right.  It still works that way.


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## c.cloudwalker (Aug 7, 2011)

Yes, I can see you are having fun (hopefully as you learn.) I would be having fun too with this semi-naked girl


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## analog.universe (Aug 7, 2011)

The perception of DOF through the viewfinder will be greatly affected by the particular focusing screen being used.  I've never used a 1D, so I'm not sure how coarse it is.  Screens optimized for autofocus efficiency usually show a perceptually deeper DOF than a manual focus optimized screen at the same aperture.  The best way to determine what will be in focus through the viewfinder is just to familiarize yourself with what the DOF looks like at different apertures, focal lengths, and focal distances.  (only experience gets you this, so shoot a lot!)  When you focus, you're always just placing the center of the focus field... knowing how deep the field will be is something you know intuitively, or look up in a chart, but it's very difficult to actually see it in the viewfinder.


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## enzodm (Aug 7, 2011)

lizg said:


> isn't it clear that I don't?



not necessarily, untold messages were ambiguous (e.g. you have a pro camera). 
Anyway, Cloudwalker just wrote you something useful. If you want "great" DoF you have to close aperture, i.e., increment the F value, unless for "great" you mean shallow, which is more or less the reverse and was how I interpreted you. Look at the link I gave you to understand how DoF relates to aperture.

The usual book suggested here is "Understanding exposure" by Bryan Peterson.


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## enzodm (Aug 7, 2011)

e.rose said:


> c.cloudwalker said:
> 
> 
> > You do not see the DOF in your viewfinder unless you go into DOF preview. At least that's the way it was with my film cameras. I don't use my DSLR much so some one will correct me if I'm wrong...
> ...



not usually, with manual lenses on dSLR. You work stop-down.


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## analog.universe (Aug 7, 2011)

enzodm said:


> e.rose said:
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> > c.cloudwalker said:
> ...



That does depend on the lens...  my Zeiss lenses are manual focus but electronic aperture.


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## LarryD (Aug 7, 2011)

The 1dII is an excellent camera and one of it's strong suits is it's ability to quickly auto-focus at whichever focus point you select..  I believe that you are handicapping yourself by using this lens for your style of shooting (moving, hand-held, etc)

Another handicap is using the low ISO50 setting with this camera.  As mentioned, you may get more in-focus shots if you use a smaller aperture to increase DOF..say f-5.6 to f-8, and increased your ISO to 200 to achieve an acceptable shutter speed..  Slow shutters will require a tripod and a model that stays still..


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## KmH (Aug 7, 2011)

lizg said:


> I see...my setting for that image is: 1/125 of a second, ISO 50, 1.4 F stop
> 
> When I looked through the VF everything looked clear which confuses me how would I know if its sharp if the VF misguides me??





lizg said:


> Please help me figure out what I'm doing wrong. Thanks so much!



 This is where your lack of attention to learning and understanding the technical details of doing photograohy will continue to hinder your growth as a photographer, and continue to present you with mysteries concerning why your photographs don't turn out the way you would like them to.

A digital camera's viewfinder cannot show you the DOF by itself. Most DSLRs have a *DOF Preview button *that you have to activate.

There are many, many, many online resources available for helping begining photographers get a solid foundation in the technical basics of doing photography. See page 89 of your user's manual for information about the DOF preview feature of your camera.

Like these excellent tutorials: Digital Photography Tutorials

Your Canon 1D Mk II User's Manual is also a great source of information about the features and functions your camera has available for you to use to your advantage.
See page 89 of your camera's user's manual.


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## enzodm (Aug 7, 2011)

analog.universe said:


> enzodm said:
> 
> 
> > e.rose said:
> ...



Zeiss, great lens . I doubt a 300$ Vivitar/Samyang/Rokinon/Opteka/Bower lens (the same under all those names), with Canon/Nikon/Pentax/Sony mount, has anything electronic in it (Samyang 85mm f/1.4 Aspherical (full format) - Review / Test Report "The primary drawback is the purely mechanical coupling with no camera-controlled aperture nor AF.").
So, *no DOF preview*, or, better, no need: what you select is what you get.


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## e.rose (Aug 7, 2011)

enzodm said:


> e.rose said:
> 
> 
> > c.cloudwalker said:
> ...



You lost me...

If I set an aperture on my camera... and I hit the DOF button... it will change what I see in the viewfinder to reflect what my DOF looks like... where am I confused and/or where are we mis-communicating?


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## enzodm (Aug 7, 2011)

e.rose said:


> You lost me...
> 
> If I set an aperture on my camera... and I hit the DOF button... it will change what I see in the viewfinder to reflect what my DOF looks like... where am I confused and/or where are we mis-communicating?



ah, this people born in the electronic era...  
The OP lens is a fully mechanical lens. You have a ring on lens for controlling aperture, and no way to set it from the camera. So, even DOF preview is not functioning, in the sense that you already see real DOF.


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## analog.universe (Aug 7, 2011)

e.rose said:


> enzodm said:
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> > e.rose said:
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On certain lenses, the camera is not able to change the aperture of the lens, so the DOF preview button does not work, and setting the aperture in camera doesn't work.  Your only option is to turn the aperture ring on the lens.


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## e.rose (Aug 7, 2011)

analog.universe said:


> e.rose said:
> 
> 
> > enzodm said:
> ...



Ah.  I was under the impression that she wasn't using a lens like that... she stated "manual mode"... I didn't realize she meant FULL MANUAL LENS, haha ...Or was that just brought up for discussions sake?


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## c.cloudwalker (Aug 7, 2011)

e.rose said:


> Ah.  I was under the impression that* she* wasn't using a lens like that... *she* stated "manual mode"... I didn't realize *she* meant FULL MANUAL LENS, haha ...Or was that just brought up for discussions sake?



She? Where did you get SHE? And here I am making assumption SHE is having fun with a semi-naked model... Well, I guess it could be and there's nothing wrong with it. But in that case I want to see more photos :lmao:


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## vtf (Aug 7, 2011)

The focus plane is very narrow at that distance and aperture. See this calculator. Online Depth of Field Calculator. Take your aperture to f5.6-8.


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## e.rose (Aug 7, 2011)

c.cloudwalker said:


> e.rose said:
> 
> 
> > Ah.  I was under the impression that* she* wasn't using a lens like that... *she* stated "manual mode"... I didn't realize *she* meant FULL MANUAL LENS, haha ...Or was that just brought up for discussions sake?
> ...



From her username 

I assume that lizg breaks down into:  Liz G.

:lmao:


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## enzodm (Aug 7, 2011)

e.rose said:


> Ah.  I was under the impression that she wasn't using a lens like that... she stated "manual mode"... I didn't realize she meant FULL MANUAL LENS, haha ...Or was that just brought up for discussions sake?



*Vivitar 85mm lens- 1.4* . Fact, not usual thread drift  . I also interpreted as _she_, and avoided to comment that focus was mostly where every male would have focused  .


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## PWhite214 (Aug 7, 2011)

Hi Lizg,

Your first thing to do is get to know your equipment.  Once you know what your camera / lens combination will do, then you can pretty well make it do what YOU want.

Go to the library, bookstore or online bookseller.  Get a copy of:
[h=1]Composition: From Snapshots to Great Shots[/h]
The first three chapters will educate you on the way your camera works.  It is not an expensive book, and you may find several similar books.  I just happen to like this one.


Do some exercises with your camera lens combination.  The book mentioned above has several exercises that make you look at what the settings do.  As you do them, you learn how to control the setting to get the photo you want.  It will be worth your time and money. 


You can get started by learning about Aperture and Depth of Field (DOF).

Set your camera on a solid stand, tripod, rock, table, ETC.  Position your subject about 3 to 5 ft from your camera.
Use Aperture Priority, with high enough ISO to keep your shutter speed at 1/125 @f16
Photograph your model, focussing on the same area (maybe her eyes?) at each aperture.  Let the camera adjust the shutter for a decent exposure.
When you examine the photos on your computer, you will see how aperture affects DOF.  At f1.4 the DOF is so shallow that only a small part of your subject will be in focus.  As you decrease the aperture to f16, you will see the difference in the how much of your subject is in focus.

Try again with your subject 10 ft from the camera, then 15 ft.  You will learn so much for spending 30 minutes or so.

I hope this helps.

Phil


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## ldeneui (Aug 7, 2011)

> Please help me figure out what I'm doing wrong.



Based on this picture I have a few suggestions.  
- Change your shooting time.  The sunlight between 4-5pm may not be the best.
- Don't shoot at f1.4.  With this much sunlight (and shooting handheld) you will still get good DOF at f2.8+ and should get a little crisper image.
- Increase your shutter speed.
- Try using a tripod or monopod
Based on the image you posted you are getting too much light (her face is blown out).  You may find that fixing this problem can also fix your focus problem.  Also I'm not familiar with the Vivitar 85mm, but some lenses just aren't as good as others.  Canon has a few options that aren't too expensive.


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## Vtec44 (Aug 7, 2011)

Holy crap, I didn't know the 1D M2 is a $6000 camera.


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## KmH (Aug 7, 2011)

I was $6000 back when it was the latest and greatest. January 2004 to the end of 3rd quarter 2005, when it was replaced by the 1D Mk II N.

The 1D Mk III appeared Jan. 2007 and held sway till the curent 1D Mk IV was launched 4th quarter 2009.


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## lizg (Aug 8, 2011)

Thanks everyone!  I clearly see where I am going wrong. This is a new lens for me because it is a full manual lens (Vivitar 85mm). My other lens have auto focus on them and I relied on them a lot with all of my previous work. What I was trying to do during this shoot was to have her in focus but have the background completely blurred, I wanted a soft romantic look/very surreal, so my error was keeping the aperature at 1.4 or 2.4 I was wavering around due to the sunlight. I kept changing the aperature up and down as the sun was brighter and not really using ISO because I didn't need anymore brightness to the lens. I am failing to not study my basics and depending alot on just doing it until it looks right haha (I know bad..very bad!)   I have to admit I have a lot of amazing photographs that will stump a lot of people, it even stumps me but the reality is I need to learn the basics really well, it will make my job soooooo much easier and I would feel so much more confident! In reply to KmH....my camera, back in the day was a $6k camera, I bought it slightly used and paid a fraction of that price! I wanted quality and at the price I got it for you would have purchased it too! Its still a very fast, quality camera today but low megapixels, only 10mps....my eye is on the 5d Mark II right now but first things first is getting my homework done and stopping this nonsense of mine and learn a thing or two the right way lol! I am just not a technical person at all and I know a lot of photographers that make killer money who are just like me, they are all self taught, have studios and work with model agencies! Crazy huh? I'm sure you pros out there are not surprised by hearing this and some might be cringing right now :meh: 

I really do appreciate all the advice!! Thanks so much! I will read the links sent to me, I'm sure they will be a huge help!!


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## enzodm (Aug 8, 2011)

lizg said:


> I am just not a technical person at all and I know a lot of photographers that make killer money who are just like me, they are all self taught, have studios and work with model agencies!



Most people here is not a pro, and most is self-taught. 
the important thing is to realize that "self-taught" means before all "taught". And I bet most pros will tell you that only a small percentage of photographers make killer money (someone time ago posted statistics on average photographer income in US: nothing to get excited).

Switching on 5D will not solve this specific problem. Changing focusing screen on your current camera may help. Exercise helps more.


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