# T-grain vs. "classical"



## Actor (Aug 10, 2009)

It's been a decade or two since I was last in a darkroom.  Since then B&W films seem to have split into two categories: T-grain films and everything else, with everything else being called "classical" film.  So I have two questions: (1)What exactly is T-grained film?  (2)I've seen advice both here and on other forums that beginners should avoid T-grained film.  Why?


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## ann (Aug 10, 2009)

Tmax is very finnicky and i,ho needs some testing to deterime the best  EI and development times, This is why in my classes i don't recommend  tmax for beginners, they have enough to deal withm without doing fuilm test. delta400 seems a bit more forgiving

tgrain refers to the look of the grain which does appear to be a t rather than a traditional dot


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## compur (Aug 10, 2009)

When T-grain films were first introduced they
earned a reputation for being less forgiving
of processing errors so newbies were advised
to start with "classic" emulsion films. 

Since their introduction, though, the T-grains 
have been improved so the warning may not be as 
necessary as it once was.

T-grain films have differently shaped, flatter
grains that produce an effect of greater image
sharpness.  However, there is a trade-off. Many
believe the sharper images tend to lack the tonal 
range of conventionally grained films (I agree).  
This may be due to the reduced silver content of
T-grain films.  Also some people just like the
look of conventional grains in a photo.

Pulling T-grain films often improves their tonal 
rendition but then you're sacrificing speed.

My own opinion is that certain images can benefit
from the look of T-grain films and some are best
done with conventional grain films.  One is not
necessarily better than the other. It's just another 
choice of materials for photographers.


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## c.cloudwalker (Aug 10, 2009)

I hope Actor won't mind my asking a question on his thread...

What do you guys recommend for a classic film that can be found in 8x10 size? Been a while since I've done B&W work. Thanks.


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## Actor (Aug 10, 2009)

c.cloudwalker said:


> I hope Actor won't mind my asking a question on his thread...



Go right ahead.


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## c.cloudwalker (Aug 10, 2009)

Actor said:


> c.cloudwalker said:
> 
> 
> > I hope Actor won't mind my asking a question on his thread...
> ...



Hope they come back


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## ann (Aug 10, 2009)

can't beat the old but true trix, however, i have also used hp5 plus


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## c.cloudwalker (Aug 10, 2009)

Ok. For some reason I thought Tri-X was gone. And the Ilford films never did much for me.

Thanks.


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## Dwig (Aug 10, 2009)

Actor said:


> ...What exactly is T-grained film?  ...



T-grain films have silver grain clumps that have what Kodak terms a "tablet" shape (not T shaped), sort of like a common asprin tablet (some photomicrograhs I've seen show them as irregular hexagons with 3 long sides and 3 short sides like a triangle with the points cut off rather than round). The wide, large area side faces out toware the lens. The large flat face exposes the same surface area to the light as a classic spherical grain clump over twice as thick. This allows a thinner emuslsion and greatly improved sharpness without loss of emulsion speed (ISO). In simple terms, T-grain films offer higher sharpness at the same ISO or higher ISO at the same sharpness.

There are other side effects to the different grain shape that impact how the films respond to processing modifications and what developers give optimal results.


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## CSR Studio (Aug 14, 2009)

c.cloudwalker said:


> Ok. For some reason I thought Tri-X was gone. And the Ilford films never did much for me.
> 
> Thanks.


 
Have you tried FP4? It is great. Also, if you did want to get into a T-grain, the Delta 100 is beautiful. My favorite B&W was tech pan but since it isn't available anymore, I use the Delta 100. Which Ilford have you tried and why do you not like them, just out of curosity?


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## timor (Dec 15, 2013)

CSR Studio said:


> Also, if you did want to get into a T-grain, the Delta 100 is beautiful.


I agree, Delat 100 and TMX properly exposed and developed have very long tonal range and sharpness. But they need proper treatment and in days of introduction many photographers didn't know, how to deal with them, thus the label of "difficult".

Woops !:lmao: I didn't noticed, that this thread is that old ! All, cause Josh has a problem with T-grain in Diafine.


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## Josh66 (Dec 16, 2013)

I've never used Delta 100 (I keep meaning to try it, but always end up buying something else, lol) - I do like TMax though.  ...I need to get some more of that too.


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## AlanKlein (Dec 16, 2013)

If you were to shoot BW film and want the best range of tones, which would you shoot? I'd be having a lab develope it. Anything I should about that?
(edit: added:  In 6x7  medium format 120 film.)


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## limr (Dec 16, 2013)

AlanKlein said:


> If you were to shoot BW film and want the best range of tones, which would you shoot? I'd be having a lab develope it. Anything I should about that?
> (edit: added:  In 6x7  medium format 120 film.)



Hard to go wrong with TriX.


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## webestang64 (Dec 17, 2013)

AlanKlein said:


> If you were to shoot BW film and want the best range of tones, which would you shoot? I'd be having a lab develope it. Anything I should about that?
> (edit: added:  In 6x7  medium format 120 film.)



I've had very good results with Ilford Delta 400 developed in T-Max dev. shot in my 645.


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## timor (Dec 17, 2013)

AlanKlein said:


> If you were to shoot BW film and want the best range of tones, which would you shoot? I'd be having a lab develope it. Anything I should about that?
> (edit: added:  In 6x7  medium format 120 film.)


Lab development and best range of tones ? Yeah... 40-ty years ago, not this days. You should shoot chromogenic film instead.


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## gsgary (Dec 17, 2013)

T grain is just like any other to me shoot it develope it whats hard with that ?
Tmax 100 13 years out of date shot at iso400 by mistake and stand developed in Rodinal












shot at 400 on purpose


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## AlanKlein (Dec 17, 2013)

timor said:


> AlanKlein said:
> 
> 
> > If you were to shoot BW film and want the best range of tones, which would you shoot? I'd be having a lab develope it. Anything I should about that?
> ...



What's chromogenic film?  Which brands would you recommend for landscapes?


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## gsgary (Dec 17, 2013)

AlanKlein said:


> timor said:
> 
> 
> > AlanKlein said:
> ...



Films like Ilford XP2 that are developed in C41 the same as colour films at your local lab, but i have developed it in Rodinal


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