# First gig!! Pls help!! Plus: does pro equipment make you a pro and opposite?



## AlleyCat (Mar 14, 2012)

Okay, so I have 2 questions:

*ONE*
I was approached by L'Oreal to shoot a small event for them - they're going to dye 2 contest winners' hair and they want me to take pictures of the whole process. Pictures would be put on their website + printed in a small-sized fashion magazine. The 2 winners' portraits would be replacing Eva Longoria in the company's newest campaign (in this magazine only). I suppose the guy producing this doesn't know much about photography since he told me he wanted "highest resolution pictures because it'll be printed in a A5-sized magazine". Thing is, a point-n-shoot camera alone can offer a damn good picture quality if requested print is A3 in size - hence I kinda figured he doesn't see into the whole thing. I've got a 60D - this is far from a pro's equipment, but the resolution of 18mpix would be enough for an A3-sized paper, let alone A5. So, resolution-wise, I think I'd make the cut, right? 
Wait, there's more. I'm afraid I'll give a bad impression if I show up there with my 60D instead of a big fat-ass 5D Mk. I'd really hate to have some smart-a$$ from the production coming my way on the set telling me to go to hell with my toy camera. The given budget is quite small, but this is a huge client so I really don't want to screw up my image in front of them. What do you think? I'm quite confident with my 60D and my skills, but I'm afraid they won't think I'm professional without the "pro" equipment. People rarely attach photographers to good photos you know, it's always the camera that does it all... Have you ever been in a similar situation?? How did you cope with it???

*just want to stress again that this is not a national/global huge billboard campaign. It's a small event when they dye 2 peole's hair & want pictures of that process to put in a local magazine *to say "hey we did what we promised, we picked the winners and gonna replace Eva's face with theirs". Hence why they didn't call up a world famous photographer. Why they consider me good enough? Might be the same reason why they want to replace Eva's face - main target is to increase brand awareness & potential buyers, pictures & the prize comes in secondary.

*TWO*
Also, since it's my first gig and all, do you think a contract should be made? I mean...realistically, if nothing's in black and white, I can barely chase them later for payment if they decide not to, right? Do you give everyone contracts regardless of how big or small the amount is? I've been shooting new faces for modelling agencies for free (since they provided the models which I can test). Recently they've promised me (2 times) they'd start paying for the pictures, I was happy and all, but it's been a few months and I haven't received a dime. We've got a good relationship and they were basically the one who gave me a chance when I started out, let me test their models, so I didn't want to ruin it by demanding that they pay my shoots, judging I already shot many of their girls for free... I was wondering whether a contract for each shoot might do it, but it just sounds like such an extreme for me...What do you suggest? What are your experiences?


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## Tee (Mar 14, 2012)

So last week you say you're a total newb, this week you have L'Oreal as a client?  Yet, you have some decent images that you've posted over the last three years.  Girl...you're all over the place.  Shoot with the gear that landed you this client.  Have you physically met with this person who's hiring you or is this done via email?  Regarding contracts you're asking two things in one paragraph.  If you're really shooting l'Oreal, yes, there should be a contract.  As far as testing for model agencies, no, they don't have to pay you.  The work you produce testing models generates business though bookers and marketers.  I'll bet 5 Euros and a lemonade the day you show up with a contract asking to be paid for testing models will be the day you stop getting calls.  I'm sorry if this is coming off snarky and condescending.  I just finished reading Model Mayhem and the 11 "is this a scam" threads that generate daily.  Something isn't adding up.  

Good luck.  Happy shooting.


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## PhotoWrangler (Mar 14, 2012)




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## cgipson1 (Mar 14, 2012)

3/8/12 >  





AlleyCat said:


> Ok, so I'm a newbie. I've been shooting outdoors  for a year and decided it was time for me to try the studio lighting.


  in this thread..... http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...tudio-whats-normal-whats-not.html#post2528602

And now you are shooting for a MAJOR outfit that has a LOT of long-time pro's with Pro gear that they work with all the time? Hmmmmm!  Maybe this is real... and you are REALLY lucky! But I don't really believe in fairytales.... 

lets see... CONTRACT? Definitely! Equipment and liability Insurance, business license / LLC / Tax ID / .. Definitely!  Does PRO equipment make  you a PRO? NO!!!! But low-end equipment will make everyone that knows anything, think you are an amateur! 

60D is kind of low mid-range, I guess...  DPReview says " With the 60D Canon has unashamedly moved the X0D range out of the 'semi  pro' bracket and  instead focused on the *enthusiast* photographer looking  to upgrade from their Rebel."  Canon EOS 60D Review: Digital Photography Review


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## Bitter Jeweler (Mar 14, 2012)

Ahhh...TPF. You always come through!


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## PhotoWrangler (Mar 14, 2012)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> Ahhh...TPF. You always come through!




Are you bringing the popcorn this go round? Can you pick up some extra butter too?


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## AlleyCat (Mar 14, 2012)

Tee said:


> So last week you say you're a total newb, this week you have L'Oreal as a client?  Yet, you have some decent images that you've posted over the last three years.  Girl...you're all over the place.  Shoot with the gear that landed you this client.  Have you physically met with this person who's hiring you or is this done via email?  Regarding contracts you're asking two things in one paragraph.  If you're really shooting l'Oreal, yes, there should be a contract.  As far as testing for model agencies, no, they don't have to pay you.  The work you produce testing models generates business though bookers and marketers.  I'll bet 5 Euros and a lemonade the day you show up with a contract asking to be paid for testing models will be the day you stop getting calls.  I'm sorry if this is coming off snarky and condescending.  I just finished reading Model Mayhem and the 11 "is this a scam" threads that generate daily.  Something isn't adding up.
> 
> Good luck.  Happy shooting.



Heyy I'm glad u like my pictures ^^Those were taken with a point & shoot, I tried to save money for a dslr but being a girl that liked shopping I only got one a year later  

LoL, sounds nice doesn't it, L'Oreal and all   only some things aren't as shiny as they seem, I'd love if it was!! It's a small competition on Facebook that they made to attract "like-ers". I doubt  they'd contact me if it was some decent gig, but hey for me it's a big deal, considering I never had one. Besides, I bet I wasn't the only one they contacted, maybe the only one that asked for so little money they couldn't help saying ok to. It's a small event, why they consider me good enough? Maybe the same reason why they want to replace Eva Longoria's face with 2 random girls' faces - it's a small & not an important event.

And no, I'm not lying about myself being a noob - considering that after 2 years I only "celebrated" my 20th photoshoot last month, so "number of clicks"-wise, I do consider myself a newbie. Full time student with a part time job really doesn't leave room for much else unfortunately... I hope I'm not giving the impression like I want to lie or something, I just don't want to boast if I don't think I'm in the position or level I can boast about myself or my skills.

I always hear people saying tests are for free - not sure if that's the usual deal in the US/elsewhere, but where I live, agencies do pay for proper model tests. I actually get told off by some ppl in the branch for not charging - well, that's what you get for respecting the one that believed in u and not daring to ask for more than what's offered.

I appreciate your comments, I guess different countries have difference practices. We learn a new thing every day


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## AlleyCat (Mar 14, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> And now you are shooting for a MAJOR outfit that has a LOT of long-time pro's with Pro gear that they work with all the time? Hmmmmm! Maybe this is real... and you are REALLY lucky! But I don't really believe in fairytales....


Well...I'd say it's a different story if they were shooting a national/global campaign, yes. But as I said, it's only a small event when they have 2 competition winners - basically just some documentary pictures + few portraits for a magazine that most people haven't heard of (not you guys in the US anyway) then I say they'd be crazy to call up Mario Testino. So sadly no, it's not as fairytale-ish as it sounds...




cgipson1 said:


> Does PRO equipment make you a PRO? NO!!!! But low-end equipment will make everyone that knows anything, think you are an amateur!



Ironic isn't it? Pro equipment doesn't make you a pro, yet somehow not having it makes you a noob! That's just sad... What happened to the belief "It's not the camera it's the photographer"? We photographers get so pissed when "normal people" dare praise the camera for the good pictures not us, but somehow we do tend to judge each other based on what gear our fellow togs are using. --> not complaining, just looking for the logic


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## tirediron (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm sorry, but I'm having just a little trouble swallowing this.  While I do not shoot major fashion myself, I have talked to one or two that do, and companies such as L'oreal do not generally hire unknown local talent (no offense intended) to shoot _anything_ for them.  How did L'oreal come to approach you?


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## AlleyCat (Mar 14, 2012)

tirediron said:


> I'm sorry, but I'm having just a little trouble swallowing this.  While I do not shoot major fashion myself, I have talked to one or two that do, and companies such as L'oreal do not generally hire unknown local talent (no offense intended) to shoot _anything_ for them.  How did L'oreal come to approach you?



None taken  Well, you got me there. I have no idea why they approached me either. Might be the same reason why they want to replace Eva's face with the competition winners' faces - main target is to increase brand awareness & potential buyers, pictures & the prize comes in secondary. In case you haven't read my posts earlier - just want to stress again that this is not a national/global huge billboard campaign. It's a small event when they dye 2 peole's hair & want someone to take pictures of that process.

First - i think they sent out an inquiry to more people than just me. I think I asked for too little money they couldn't resist. 

Second - I receive inquiries in my inbox here and there, I have a page on facebook, and I've worked with some creatives in the branch...I'd say either they saw my work or someone recommended me perhaps..So far nobody called me to ask for compensation for recommendation so I don't know.

And finally third - I'd also be crazy to think that a brand like L'Oreal would go around scouting for new "shooters", but I guess it differs from country to country. Just like it's easier for some photographers to score gigs for Elle Vietnam/Vogue India than to get the same gig for Elle US/Vogue US. -- just what noticed.


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## KmH (Mar 14, 2012)

AlleyCat said:


> but I guess it differs from country to country.


Which isn't included in your profile making almost any question you ask in the General Shop Talk section, unanswerable.


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## PapaMatt (Mar 14, 2012)

As long as you are at it I need some help also. The White House called me and want me to do a shoot for the First Lady, What equipment should I take? :lmao:


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## PapaMatt (Mar 14, 2012)

AlleyCat said:


> Okay, so I have 2 questions:
> 
> *ONE*
> I was approached by L'Oreal to shoot a small event for them - they're going to dye 2 contest winners' hair and they want me to take pictures of the whole process. Pictures would be put on their website + printed in a small-sized fashion magazine. The 2 winners' portraits would be replacing Eva Longoria in the company's newest campaign (in this magazine only). I suppose the guy
> ...


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## cgipson1 (Mar 14, 2012)

PapaMatt said:


> People rarely attach photographers to good photos you know, it's always the camera that does it all... Have you ever been in a similar situation?? How did you cope with it???



Never had to cope with it.. I have never shown up on a professional level shoot with less than professional equipment. Mainly because I wanted equipment I could count on to work, no matter what! 

Most people would not know the difference between pro gear and entry level gear! The thing is, those that DO know the difference... might be less likely to take you serious if you show up at a L'Oreal shoot with a Rebel or something similar! The ones that DO know the difference are usually the ones you HAVE to impress, also... with your work,  your manner, your ability to work with others, and in difficult conditions (and yes, even the level of equipment you have) if you want to continue to work with them.


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## AlleyCat (Mar 15, 2012)

KmH said:


> AlleyCat said:
> 
> 
> > but I guess it differs from country to country.
> ...


And that's why I used "I guess" and said "we learn something new everyday".


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## Forkie (Mar 15, 2012)

Assuming this whole gig isn't a scam, then they know very well that they haven't approached a professional photographer.  Therefore, they shouldn't expect you to show up with a truckload of professional gear.  

Assuming again, that you are not being taken for a ride; turn up, do your best with your current gear.  If they don't like it, tough!

There should at least be a contract that states how much you will be paid and when.


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## MReid (Mar 15, 2012)

Of course it does....in the same way buying a really good hammer makes you a carpenter.


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## jwbryson1 (Mar 15, 2012)

ChristopherCoy said:


> Bitter Jeweler said:
> 
> 
> > Ahhh...TPF. You always come through!
> ...



If you'd be so kind as to pick up some Crown Royal and a 12 pack of Coke, that would be terrific.  I'll spot you when you get here.


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## KmH (Mar 15, 2012)

PapaMatt said:


> *Does buying a race car make you a race car driver?*


Yes. Assuming you drive the race car.
But, just driving a race car does not also mean you would have any appreciation of how to effectively drive the car or conduct yourself in an actual race.


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## PapaMatt (Mar 15, 2012)

KmH said:


> PapaMatt said:
> 
> 
> > *Does buying a race car make you a race car driver?*
> ...




------------------------------------------------------                                ----------------------------------

Now we are just playing a word game


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## o hey tyler (Mar 15, 2012)

KmH said:


> PapaMatt said:
> 
> 
> > *Does buying a race car make you a race car driver?*
> ...



What if you chauffeur Ms. Daisy in a race car? What does that make you? ;-)


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## o hey tyler (Mar 15, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


> KmH said:
> 
> 
> > PapaMatt said:
> ...



My money is going on "irresponsible."


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## KmH (Mar 15, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


> KmH said:
> 
> 
> > PapaMatt said:
> ...


You're still a race car driver, but Ms. Daisy becomes a race car passenger. 

Most of the race cars I've driven over the years only had room for 1 person anyway.


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## imagemaker46 (Mar 15, 2012)

Now that you've all drifted off the topic.......once again.  I find it a real stretch of the imagination that a huge company that relies on beauty and perfection, would risk using an unknown person with a camera to shoot anything related to their company.  They would have access to a huge network of skilled professionals to choose from, and yet magically and for some "I really don't know how they found me, maybe it was facebook" reason, they have decided to go with someone they don't know. 

Maybe it was the old throw a dart at the phone book, and hire the name under the dart.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Mar 15, 2012)

PapaMatt said:


> As long as you are at it I need some help also. The *White House called me and want me to do a shoot for the First Lady*, What equipment should I take? :lmao:



OMG I'm picturing *Michelle* O. doing a suggestive/nude shoot


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## 2WheelPhoto (Mar 15, 2012)

bump- TOP!  

'cuz this is the winniest thread


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## raider (Mar 18, 2012)

"Ironic isn't it? Pro equipment doesn't make you a pro, yet somehow not having it makes you a noob! That's just sad... What happened to the belief "It's not the camera it's the photographer"? We photographers get so pissed when "normal people" dare praise the camera for the good pictures not us, but somehow we do tend to judge each other based on what gear our fellow togs are using. --> not complaining, just looking for the logic"


because people are hiring you and that also entails 'renting' your equipment.  its like restaurants using fresh and real food vs canned.


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## KmH (Mar 18, 2012)

Pro equipment delivers greater artistic latitude because pro gear can be used over a broader range of operating conditions. Pro gear also delivers increased longevity by dint of it's better durability.

A knowledgeable, skilled pro can make good images with 'any gear', but only within the more limited operating range that 'any gear' allows.


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