# Nikon Z6 & Z7 fails



## scaryloud (Aug 26, 2018)

Nikon: "Let's take the sensor tech from the D850 and put it in one camera.  Then we'll take the sensor tech from the D750 and put it into the other camera.  But wait, there's more!  Now let's take the stuff people really hate about the D3xxx and D5xxx series cameras and incorporate them into both new camera bodies!  Let's make sure we charge the same as the D850 and more than the D750 when we launch them!"

One card slot?!  Not only that but it's XQD?!  128gb card = $200+...and you get to buy an external card reader!  "Hey, my memory card died during this wedding shoot!  No worries, I have my bac---"  NOPE!  Look, I would pay more for the XQD cards (not gleefully) if there were 2 slots.  I have an XQD card in my D500.  But I gotta stack of SD and CF cards already (about $1200 in value give or take), to render them obsolete would take a better camera than the Z6 or Z7 currently are.

FTZ adapter.  Works great with G lenses.  D lenses, no autofocus.  Seems like no big deal, unless you're shooting rapid fire or don't have the best eyesight.  Oh, and may or may not work with 3rd party lenses.

Buffer on the Z7...complete fail!  Why so?  Because XQD cards are SUBSTANTIALLY faster than SD, yet Nikon doesn't increase the buffer internally to take advantage of it at all!

Look, I'm a looooong time Nikon user, but there is no excuse for these flaws.  If it were 2012 and Nikon was trend setting like Sony did, no problem...minus the single card slot.  But no.  They aren't blazing any paths.  Most would agree Nikon and Canon are WAY behind the power curve in the mirrorless game.

Sure the autofocus system is great, but still not breaking any new ice.  They've smoothed out video focusing as well, about freakin' time.  Canon, Sony and Panasuckit figured out how to do it years ago.

4k video uses cropped frame on the sensor for 1:1 ratio.

About the only things Nikon got right were the grip, the touch screen, and the battery (en-el15b)...just not the battery life (330 shots?).  Those new lenses look...eh, rushed really.

I expected soooo much more considering the technology that's already out there.  Good news is my D810 and D500 will be holding their value for a while longer so far as I can tell.

What say you???

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## jcdeboever (Aug 27, 2018)

There is a thread going on about it here, many pages. It is what it is. I use Fujifilm digital anyway because it is setup like a film camera and has great glass. I will say the base camera may turn into something at some point but Sony will release a new A7 and thump them upside the head. Fujifilm is coming out with the XT3 next month which will pretty much make all of this a moot point. People wish that Fujifilm would come out with a full frame mirrorless but they don't have to, the image quality is stellar with their current offerings. Additionally, they have medium format digital and are soon going to announce a new, medium format range finder style that's half the Price of a GFX and will be cheaper then the Z7. Nikon is way late to the game and this one is kind of a head scratcher to me.


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## scaryloud (Aug 27, 2018)

I get why they did this.  Nikon didn't want to destroy their DSLR market.  The problem is Sony already is doing that for them.  Well that and Nikon's recent issues with bad shutters (my D750 destroyed itself...including the sensor) and you can't readily buy a D850 unless you get grey market.  Its been on back order for almost a year now.  Not to mention the whole oil issue on the D600.  I had one and it was a mess too.

Nikon needs to fix itself QUICK!  They are their own worst enemy at this point.  I love Nikon, but I'm steadily losing faith in their products.

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## Designer (Aug 27, 2018)

scaryloud said:


> What say you???


(disclaimer) I am not a potential purchaser of the Z system.

I think the biggest failure by Nikon was to target a particular line of Sony cameras, and in doing so to incorporate the very superficial qualities of the Sony cameras, i.e.: size, weight, mirrorless, proprietary lens mount, etc.  Coming out in full force against one part of a competitor's line seems like such a waste of time, effort, and money.

Second to that is the pricing structure.  These are not professional cameras, and amateurs are unlikely to purchase them in great numbers.  Instead of providing the adapter in the initial package, (along with a lens and all priced reasonably) they make everyone purchase the adapter at a fat price.  Speaking of fat price, the lenses are overpriced as well.  Considering that they do not need an internal focusing motor, and do not incorporate lens-based VR, the prices seem unreasonable.

Thirdly, (and this has nothing to do directly with the Z system) Nikon could have spent some of that development time, effort, and money in developing something unique to Nikon, and something that the photographic community would eagerly embrace.  But they didn't.


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## waday (Aug 27, 2018)

scaryloud said:


> One card slot?!


Huh, despite following the Nikon mirrorless release for a while, I've been so busy the past few days, I haven't had a chance to actually look at the released cameras. 

Only one card slot is surprising. But, aren't XQD cards larger? So, if they were to include two XQD cards, they'd need to make it larger overall (which they probably didn't want to do). They could have chosen to do one XQD and one SD, but then the XQD would be limited to the SD card when shooting in redundancy, right? Or just use two SD cards, but supposedly they aren't as reliable as the XQD cards (or at least that's what I've heard from hearsay)?


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## Braineack (Aug 27, 2018)

wow.



scaryloud said:


> Nikon: "Let's take the sensor tech from the D850 and put it in one camera. Then we'll take the sensor tech from the D750 and put it into the other camera. But wait, there's more! Now let's take the stuff people really hate about the D3xxx and D5xxx series cameras and incorporate them into both new camera bodies! Let's make sure we charge the same as the D850 and more than the D750 when we launch them!"



What's wrong with those sensors?
And what are the elements that people hate about the D3xxx and D5xxx series cameras that were incorporated into the new bodies?



> One card slot?!



When's the last time your memory card failed?  Do you even shoot weddings with RAW + JPG?



> Not only that but it's XQD?!



ZQD > CF > SD



> FTZ adapter. Works great with G lenses. D lenses, no autofocus. Seems like no big deal, unless you're shooting rapid fire or don't have the best eyesight. Oh, and may or may not work with 3rd party lenses.



they could have not made an adapter... would that have pleased you?  I'm personally very happy a FZ adapter will exist from day one.



> Buffer on the Z7...complete fail! Why so? Because XQD cards are SUBSTANTIALLY faster than SD, yet Nikon doesn't increase the buffer internally to take advantage of it at all!



you're contradicting yourself here.  why would they increase the internal buffer if the cards can write fast enough not to need a buffer?




> Look, I'm a looooong time Nikon user, but there is no excuse for these flaws. If it were 2012 and Nikon was trend setting like Sony did, no problem...minus the single card slot. But no. They aren't blazing any paths. Most would agree Nikon and Canon are WAY behind the power curve in the mirrorless game.



were they trying to blaze a path?   has nikon ever?  not in my opinion.



> Sure the autofocus system is great...They've smoothed out video focusing as well...4k video uses cropped frame on the sensor for 1:1 ratio...the grip..the touch screen...the battery.



so basically they made a pretty decent camera...


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## scaryloud (Aug 27, 2018)

waday said:


> scaryloud said:
> 
> 
> > One card slot?!
> ...


No the cards aren't larger.  They're faster...a lot faster.  But they're not cheap.  128gb card is anywhere from 200-250 bucks.

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## waday (Aug 27, 2018)

scaryloud said:


> No the cards aren't larger.


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## scaryloud (Aug 27, 2018)

waday said:


> scaryloud said:
> 
> 
> > No the cards aren't larger.


I meant capacity.

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## shadowlands (Aug 27, 2018)

I still want one... I want the Z6, but not now. Have what I need currently, so no rush. I'll buy one used in a couple years with the adapter. Boom!


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## Designer (Aug 27, 2018)

waday said:


> Only one card slot is surprising. But, aren't XQD cards larger? So, if they were to include two XQD cards, they'd need to make it larger overall (which they probably didn't want to do).


That was the reason given, which proves that the overriding design decisions were not made for functionality, but rather to make the physical size comparable to the Sony offerings.  

Which shows where Nikon's priorities lie.


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## Destin (Aug 28, 2018)

Designer said:


> waday said:
> 
> 
> > Only one card slot is surprising. But, aren't XQD cards larger? So, if they were to include two XQD cards, they'd need to make it larger overall (which they probably didn't want to do).
> ...



Which is a shame, honestly. 

I would *love* a mirrorless camera’s increased tech with the size and form factor of my D810


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## greybeard (Sep 16, 2018)

scaryloud said:


> Nikon: "Let's take the sensor tech from the D850 and put it in one camera.  Then we'll take the sensor tech from the D750 and put it into the other camera.  But wait, there's more!  Now let's take the stuff people really hate about the D3xxx and D5xxx series cameras and incorporate them into both new camera bodies!  Let's make sure we charge the same as the D850 and more than the D750 when we launch them!"
> 
> One card slot?!  Not only that but it's XQD?!  128gb card = $200+...and you get to buy an external card reader!  "Hey, my memory card died during this wedding shoot!  No worries, I have my bac---"  NOPE!  Look, I would pay more for the XQD cards (not gleefully) if there were 2 slots.  I have an XQD card in my D500.  But I gotta stack of SD and CF cards already (about $1200 in value give or take), to render them obsolete would take a better camera than the Z6 or Z7 currently are.
> 
> ...


Don't hold back, tell us what you think!  Panasuckit....lol


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## goodguy (Oct 1, 2018)

I was eagerly waiting for the Nikon Mirrorless, I preordered the Z6...……..and I am not going to get it, reason I wanted Nikon mirrorless was because as a wedding photographer and videographer I needed a hybrid camera that can do both well, sadly due to the lack of a second card I cant use this camera for professional work but I would like to point few thing.
1.This is a first gen camera, look at the Canon R, it too is far from being a perfect camera, the Sony A7III is so much better but then its a 3 gen camera. I think for a first Gen camera the Z7/Z6 are impressive cameras. Only few months ago everybody said the D850 is the best camera and it would be perfect if it had a good video follow focus, this was always Nikon's Achillies Heel, now that Nikon has good video follow focus it still gets bad press, I need to remind everybody progress takes time and like it or not we need to be patient.
I am waiting for the Z6II which will probably come out in few years, be patient people, Rome wasn't build in one day and considering its their first gen the Z6/Z7 are good cameras but of course far from being perfect.
If I didn't need it for pro work I believe I would get the Z6.
And one last thing, the Z6 sensor is NOT the D750 sensor, its not same MP, not same technology, the Z6 is a BSI sensor and is a totally new sensor.


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## pixmedic (Oct 1, 2018)

because Sony totally nailed the absolutely perfect A7I, and Fuji's X-T1/X-Pro1 has never needed improving....
also, sony and fuji dont have an already establish line of other cameras (regular DSLR's) to worry about. 
.people  complaining for years that nikon./canon arent making mirrorless camera options, then complain when they do. theres just no pleasing some people.

the Z6 and Z7 are probably great cameras. they just dont have every single feature that every single person wants. 
if i was still in with Nikon i would definitely consider picking up a Z6


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## Solarflare (Oct 4, 2018)

pixmedic said:


> .people  complaining for years that nikon./canon arent making mirrorless camera options, then complain when they do. theres just no pleasing some people.



I fail to understand why this surprises you.

Obviously people associate "Canon" and "Nikon" written on photographic gear with a certain promise of quality.

Otherwise they could have just written "Canon" or "Nikon" on their Sony cameras, right ?

So yeah of course they complain when Canon and Nikon release poor products. They wanted their issues with Sony cameras fixed, not getting an even worse product.


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## pixmedic (Oct 4, 2018)

Solarflare said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> > .people  complaining for years that nikon./canon arent making mirrorless camera options, then complain when they do. theres just no pleasing some people.
> ...



I fail to understand why you assumed I was surprised by any of it.


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## Braineack (Oct 4, 2018)

Braineack said:


> wow.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




@scaryloud still waiting for replies...


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## scaryloud (Oct 4, 2018)

Banding and dynamic range issues are reportedly plaguing the heck out of the Z7 so far.  That can't be fixed by firmware.  Its a hardware issue.  Autofocus also seems to have issues locking on.

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## Braineack (Oct 4, 2018)

Two solutions:

1. dont push the ev to +6 in post.
2. dont underexposure the image by 6 stops.

This [the banding] is an issue with any PD AF sensor.  Sony and Fuji are dealing with similar issues of their own here...


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## Derrel (Oct 4, 2018)

Braineack said:


> Two solutions:
> 
> 1. dont push the ev to +6 in post.
> 2. dont underexposure the image by 6 stops.
> ...



If one wishes to recover 6-stop-underexposed images...the Nikon D850 can still do it, without the problems associated with having Phase Detection pixels embedded directly into the sensor...some things which seem like an advantage on-paper are, in the real world, sometimes a limitation. The banding caused by the Phase Detection pixels is one example of an on-paper "advantage" that we sometimes see listed as a mirrorless camera advantage, but as you point out, it's been a source of some,occasional image flaws for multiple camera manufacturers. When conditions are right, this is an issue some mirrorless cameras can be afflicted with.

The fact is though...that an ISO invariant sensor encourages photographers to routinely underexpose to a huge degree, then recover the images in post software...with some mirrorless cameras, that d-slr trick is not always going to work...the banding problem the Nikon Z7 suffers from can bee seen here:

Nikon Z7 First Impressions Review


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## greybeard (Oct 5, 2018)

Given time the Z series will work out the banding thing with later generations.  I like a lot of people, would love to have a Z7 to play around with but, I just can't muster up enough GAS to drop $4000+  on a Z7 body + 24-70 Z f/4 + the adapter.  I doubt the resulting pictures would be any better than the combination d750/d7500 I'm using now.


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## Solarflare (Oct 5, 2018)

I dont see how thats not a problem because it obviously will show up in any image with high dynamic range.

Well ... I could have played around with the Z7 for a while on photokina but I just didnt care. Same for Canons EOS-R.

One card slot is intolerable for certain types of photographers. Either way it shows a disregard for data security.


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## cgw (Oct 5, 2018)

Sorry but are these cameras in *that* many hands yet to fuel this issue? Wild extremes of under/over-exposure still have consequences in post and I don’t believe the Nikon Z cameras up-ended this. Soon, inshallah, but not now.


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## scaryloud (Oct 5, 2018)

I vary my exposures from 2/3 of a stop over or under exposed.  That being said, when shooting contrasty situations or landscapes with harsh shadows, it may take quite a lot of boosting to bring out the shadow detail.  This is where the banding issues commonly occur.  

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## chasgroh (Oct 23, 2018)

I've read the entire thread.  Nobody actually is shooting with one of these cameras.  Jeeze Louise...


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## BananaRepublic (Oct 23, 2018)

scaryloud said:


> Nikon: "Let's take the sensor tech from the D850 and put it in one camera.  Then we'll take the sensor tech from the D750 and put it into the other camera.  But wait, there's more!  Now let's take the stuff people really hate about the D3xxx and D5xxx series cameras and incorporate them into both new camera bodies!  Let's make sure we charge the same as the D850 and more than the D750 when we launch them!"
> 
> One card slot?!  Not only that but it's XQD?!  128gb card = $200+...and you get to buy an external card reader!  "Hey, my memory card died during this wedding shoot!  No worries, I have my bac---"  NOPE!  Look, I would pay more for the XQD cards (not gleefully) if there were 2 slots.  I have an XQD card in my D500.  But I gotta stack of SD and CF cards already (about $1200 in value give or take), to render them obsolete would take a better camera than the Z6 or Z7 currently are.
> 
> ...


Easy solution to this, Don't buy one so


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## waday (Oct 23, 2018)

chasgroh said:


> I've read the entire thread.  Nobody actually is shooting with one of these cameras.  Jeeze Louise...


Welcome to the world of tech discussions.  I'm assuming you don't frequent other sites and forums that much more heavily discuss technology from a desktop perspective?


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## Derrel (Oct 23, 2018)

The camera is not widely distributed in the world yet. You can't even buy lenses for it half the places. What few units there are been snapped up by early adopting techno geeks. On the other hand there are almost 20 years worth of Nikon DSLRs in the wild


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## chasgroh (Oct 23, 2018)

waday said:


> chasgroh said:
> 
> 
> > I've read the entire thread.  Nobody actually is shooting with one of these cameras.  Jeeze Louise...
> ...



...well, sure.  It's just that it's been a couple of months of this patter.  I'm going in on the Z6, so the Z7 doesn't completely apply, but I want hands-on opinions, not a bunch of regurgitated "...only one card slot" kinda stuff.  I just found this site and it seems really good, maybe I should just avoid what I know to be useless...  ;0)  I've a nice set of DSLR's (D5,800,500 and a couple of IR bodies) and am anxious to get my mitts on a Z6...so I'll look through this site more carefully.


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## Derrel (Oct 23, 2018)

_


			
				waday said:
			
		


			...well, sure.  It's just that it's been a couple of months of this patter.  I'm going in on the Z6, so the Z7 doesn't completely apply, but I want hands-on opinions, not a bunch of regurgitated "...only one card slot" kinda stuff.  I just found this site and it seems really good, maybe I should just avoid what I know to be useless...  ;0)  I've a nice set of DSLR's (D5,800,500 and a couple of IR bodies) and am anxious to get my mitts on a Z6...so I'll look through this site more carefully.
		
Click to expand...

_
OKAY>>>SOMETHING ACTUALLY USEFUL: Ming Thein's review of the Nikon Z7 and the NEW 24-70mm lens_. Full review: The 2018 Nikon Z7 and Z 24-70/4
_
A few excerpts of very positive things from Ming's review:_ 

"*23/10/18 update:* After a few cycles on the batteries, it seems that I’m now seeing more like 1200-1400 shots per charge. By comparison, shooting the same way with my D850 yields about 2000, a PEN-F about 600-700, and the A7RII about 150. SNIP  In short: whatever Nikon have done to optimise battery life on the Z7, it’s phenomenal."

"I have the Z 24-70/4>>SNIP>here are two remarkable things about this lens: firstly, the collapsed size is tiny: it’s the same size as the primes, or say an 85/1.8. The second thing is it’s neutrality: it isn’t crazy sharp like an Otus, but it isn’t soft, either; microcontrast is middling; macrocontrast is middle to high, and it’s slightly better stopped down (peaking somewhere between f5.6 and f8). It definitely matches the resolution of the sensor. But what’s amazing is its consistency across the focal range, focal distance and across the frame, even into the extreme corners. Remember: this isn’t a prime; it’s a collapsing compact wide-to-portrait zoom, with very short back flange distance.

This is the first time I’ve seen this kind of behaviour in a zoom: normally there’s an obvious resolution peak in the middle, with the edges only catching up a couple of stops down. Furthermore, chromatic aberration (both longitudinal and lateral) and flare are almost zero. You really have to get something very bright in the frame at wide to see even slight ghosts. This is solid evidence of the performance improvements that come from a larger mount, larger exit pupil (32mm!) and higher telecentricity. On top of that, focus is completely silent and nearly instant, and you have the benefit of a very short 30cm minimum distance from the focal plane at all focal lengths."
_
And:
_
"And as the D3, this represents a massive quantum leap of innovation for conservative Nikon; though the Z7 isn’t the second coming of sliced Jesus there are enough solid improvements over the D850, and not too many compromises (some of which are firmware-fixable). For a first try, it’s remarkable effort. Put another way: I don’t care what the fanboys say, but we’re now on the third generation of Sony A7 (fourth, if you count the A9) and they still don’t operate as smoothly."_


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