# Shelby



## frommrstomommy (Jul 21, 2013)

Did a TFP shoot with Shelby yesterday and got to try out my new reflector a bit but not for long.. it was so overcast!

1

shelby (1 of 1)-2 by capturedbybc, on Flickr

2


shelby (1 of 1)-3 by capturedbybc, on Flickr

3


shelby (1 of 1)-4 by capturedbybc, on Flickr


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## Dinardy (Jul 21, 2013)

Pretty pictures! Favorite is 3


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## krystalynnephoto (Jul 21, 2013)

Wow... she's gorgeous!  I like 'em!  Her expression in 3 is very, "up to no good." lol


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## Derrel (Jul 21, 2013)

Good lighting--light, bright, airy, summery feeling. She looks very attractive in these.


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## DanOstergren (Jul 21, 2013)

I think a curves adjustment would really improve 1 and 2. Tones seem a little flat to me.


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## frommrstomommy (Jul 21, 2013)

DanOstergren said:


> I think a curves adjustment would really improve 1 and 2. Tones seem a little flat to me.



I think you are right.. I stared at them and couldn't quite pinpoint what I felt was missing.


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## frommrstomommy (Jul 21, 2013)

slight adjustment.. 



shelby (1 of 1)-6 by capturedbybc, on Flickr


shelby (1 of 1)-5 by capturedbybc, on Flickr


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## Robin_Usagani (Jul 21, 2013)

Best work I have seen from you.  Nice job!  Although, overcast weather helped you quite a bit though.  Practice more when the sun is out because it is more challenging.


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## frommrstomommy (Jul 21, 2013)

Robin_Usagani said:


> Best work I have seen from you.  Nice job!  Although, overcast weather helped you quite a bit though.  Practice more when the sun is out because it is more challenging.



Thank you! I definitely got lucky with the weather.. I will be forced to work in more "sunny" conditions often though I'm sure.. clouds and rain are such a rarity in this city!


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## KmH (Jul 21, 2013)

I agree that we can see your progress.

As you found out, reflectors don't have all that much they can reflect when it's overcast.
However, on overcast days you can use a flash instead of the Sun, by pointing the flash at the reflector.
If it's a 5-in-1 reflector, you can use the diffusion panel in the middle and shoot a flash through the diffusion panel right at your subject.


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## frommrstomommy (Jul 21, 2013)

Yes it is a 5 in one.  I will have to give that a go!  My next purchase will be a way to get my speedlight off camera finally. My son's getting old enough that he's a handful trying to wear him while I'm out shooting and I want to try to leave him home with hubby soon which means less load..  More hands.  Lol


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## DanOstergren (Jul 22, 2013)

frommrstomommy said:


> Yes it is a 5 in one.  I will have to give that a go!  My next purchase will be a way to get my speedlight off camera finally. My son's getting old enough that he's a handful trying to wear him while I'm out shooting and I want to try to leave him home with hubby soon which means less load..  More hands.  Lol


This is what I use to get my flash off the camera if I do happen to use flash. Off-Camera Flash Gear | Canon ETTL Cord OC-E3 | Nikon ITTL Cord SC-29 | Syl Arena My poor ass can't afford radio triggers, and these cords while a bit clumsy are more reliable that a radio trigger, and immensely more affordable. I always prefer to use all natural light or a reflector with natural light whenever possible though.

Also, I think that curves adjustment is just what those shots needed. They look great! I also think you made good use of that reflector. Even just a little bit of reflected light makes a big difference, and in my opinion subtle differences always make a bigger impact in a photo.


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## Tailgunner (Jul 22, 2013)

Nice, I like 1 & 3....and I love her name!


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## tirediron (Jul 22, 2013)

Lame!  I was expecting  ........



Nice set - skin looks a little under-exposed (but that may be this monitor) but you nailed the whites.


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## kathyt (Jul 22, 2013)

Love the poses, composition, and facial expressions. Skin is underexposed. You can tell because it has that gray hue. I am going to say it till I am blue in the face, but once you learn to read skin by the numbers you will know by the time you are done editing if your skin tones are correct. It only takes a couple of seconds to check them once you know the parameters. I have seen a HUGE improvement in your work since you first started posted here. I am hard on the people who have the most potential. :heart:


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## kathyt (Jul 22, 2013)

Alright, I had the chance to play with the RAW file. This image was about as close to perfect WB as you could get, it was TACK sharp, and super fun to play with. OP agreed to have this shared with everyone so that other people can learn as well. Thank you Bonnie.
I usually set my WB off of their teeth or the whites of their eyes. In her case, her teeth got me pretty close. I used LR and Portraiture for this edit. For skin, I check everything based on the RGB scale and luminance values. For her, my midtone red channel target was between 84-86%, I always start with this then the green and blue channels seem to fall into place. To get my midtone red channel into the 85% range, the first thing I do is click on the exposure field in the develop module of LR. Then I set my eye dropper tool directly over a bright midtone. (generally I use directly between the eyes) I will then keep pushing my arrow key up until I reach my target of _around_ 85%. Once I reach that number I tweak from there. If I don't have proper exposure on the skin, I can never get accurate skin tones. Underexposed skin will give you really low values in the red channel. Keep in mind that the values will be different for different types of skin. (Fair, dark, Hispanic, etc.) 
I will let you crop. 

Here are my LR settings-
Exposure .81
Contrast 18
Highlights -31
Shadows +20
Whites -10
Blacks -19
Clarity -10
medium contrast curve
cloned little hairs 
Sharpened eyes
ran Portraiture very lightly at the end to polish it out. The End.

Final skintone values:
R 85.1%
G 77.5%
B 69.9%

original

my edit
B/W


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## tirediron (Jul 22, 2013)

Nice edit Kathy, but I'd suggest using the selective enhancement brush on her dress and dialling back the exposure a tad (or walking about the whites), as some of the detail's gone astray.


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## Derrel (Jul 22, 2013)

Paint back in some detail too...all the beautiful photo-realism has been wiped away...there's no depth to her face...she looks flat and uninteresting. Her hair has no detail to it. Just too much broad artificiality.The whites in the dress in the B&W are a bit too bright, and are drawing attention away from her, since that white sundress is such a big part of the composition.


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## kathyt (Jul 22, 2013)

Photo-realism? Show these images to her and see which one she would like to purchase. I would be asking her cash, check, or charge. I agree about the detail in the dress, and I would go back in and do a quick adjustment if it were my image/client.


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## kathyt (Jul 22, 2013)

I am sure your edit would be smashing Derrel. Please grace us with your edit, and show me some photo-realism!


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## frommrstomommy (Jul 22, 2013)

If anyone else wanted to take a stab at this one I'm happy to send over the raw image. (regular posters only please lol)


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## manicmike (Jul 22, 2013)

My editing needs work. Think I could play around with it and see if I can replicate Kathy's work? Nice work Bonnie.


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## manicmike (Jul 22, 2013)

And one more post so I'm not at 666.


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## frommrstomommy (Jul 22, 2013)

manicmike said:


> My editing needs work. Think I could play around with it and see if I can replicate Kathy's work? Nice work Bonnie.



Sure.  Shoot me a message with your email address and I'll send it over when I'm back at my computer. Thank you!


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## frommrstomommy (Jul 22, 2013)

manicmike said:


> My editing needs work. Think I could play around with it and see if I can replicate Kathy's work? Nice work Bonnie.



Sure.  Shoot me a message with your email address and I'll send it over when I'm back at my computer. Thank you!


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## Derrel (Jul 22, 2013)

kathythorson said:


> I am sure your edit would be smashing Derrel. Please grace us with your edit, and show me some photo-realism!



Thank you Kathy, but that's quite enough snark from you. I was just pointing out that, in my opinion, your edit killed all the detail in her hair, and her face, and the dress is blown out. It looks clownish to me. It looks overly airbrushed, and has lost a large percentage of the realism I like to see in portraiture. As far as what will sell...if all a person shows is overly-airbrushed images, that's all that will be sold.

It might has well have been shot with a 4 megapixel camera instead of a 24-MP FF Nikon. I think the key to editing is to **selectively** add smoothing, and not turn the hair to mush, and not to eliminate all the detail in the clothing and the face. Your schoolyard type of comments are not really needed. You can disagree without being churlish, I think.


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## kathyt (Jul 22, 2013)

frommrstomommy said:


> If anyone else wanted to take a stab at this one I'm happy to send over the raw image. (regular posters only please lol)


Once you get in that general range for skintones and luminance, then you can tweak it to your own taste. Either cool it down or warm it up; whatever floats your boat. The point here is to have a good workflow that will facilitate consistent results. My main goal with clients is to produce what I know will please them and what sells. That is the bottom line. I have to make a profit if I am going to be sitting behind that computer. (This is just for the business side of things)
Here is a little bit of logic behind the _way _I edited this image. So these are the things I know about this girl just from the RAW file. 
-she is very tan
-she bleaches her teeth (I was in the dental field for ten years and I can tell from the enamel up close when I was editing)
-she has highlights in her hair
-she is dressed very trendy

With this information I am going to edit more along the lines of a senior or glamour session, because this would be more along the lines of the clients style from my experience. This client would most likely like more of a polished edit. This is what is going to sell to this genre of client. (This is *my *experience I am going off of) 
If the client had no makeup on, very conservative clothing choices, and more of a plain Jane look, then I would edit on the really clean side, because that would be what they would expect to see. That is what would sell. This is how my brain operates during shooting and editing for clients. This kinda shuts down when I shoot for myself. 
Food for thought. Take it or leave it.


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## kathyt (Jul 22, 2013)

Derrel said:


> kathythorson said:
> 
> 
> > I am sure your edit would be smashing Derrel. Please grace us with your edit, and show me some photo-realism!
> ...


Then go ahead and edit it the way you would so she can see a few different approaches. Please and thank you.


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## CarreraGT (Jul 22, 2013)

lovely portaits shelby is a very pretty young lady.


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## frommrstomommy (Jul 22, 2013)

kathythorson said:


> frommrstomommy said:
> 
> 
> > If anyone else wanted to take a stab at this one I'm happy to send over the raw image. (regular posters only please lol)
> ...



Well, I think senior/glamour is definitely suitable for her.. she's 17 and going to be a senior this coming year. haha She's trying to get into modeling.. this was her first "real shoot". Funny enough, the dress she's wearing is actually mine.. I brought it along for her to wear, but she does dress sort of trendy/boho/hippie ish. She loved my original edit but I will play with your method to work with skin tones and see what I come up with that's more "in line" with my normal edits. I have mostly been shooting families and such so the editing style is different for sure.


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## Derrel (Jul 22, 2013)

kathythorson said:
			
		

> Then go ahead and edit it the way you would so she can see a few different approaches. Please and thank you.



The OP's own edits in Post #7 look plenty good. Realistic detail. Nice color. Wonderful colors,light and very summery-feeling lighting, detail in her hair, and a naturalistic look. I don't see much need to edit out all skin detail, and mush the hair up. The OP's two images in post #7 look plenty good to me; they have a modern, high-resolution d-slr look to them. Naturalistic. Realistic. Lovely.


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## frommrstomommy (Jul 22, 2013)

another version.. I used your method of looking at the numbers and tried my hand at it. i used her cheek though.. using between her eyes made her too orangey for me. I also upped the exposure on just her a tiny bit instead of the entire image to avoid blowing out the dress.


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## kathyt (Jul 22, 2013)

frommrstomommy said:


> another version.. I used your method of looking at the numbers and tried my hand at it. i used her cheek though.. using between her eyes made her too orangey for me. I also upped the exposure on just her a tiny bit instead of the entire image to avoid blowing out the dress.
> 
> View attachment 50673


Awesome. This is the perfect example of taking the basics and making it your own unique style. She is beautiful and you did a really good job on this shoot Bonnie.


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## Robin_Usagani (Jul 22, 2013)

I think OP original edits were good.  The last one looks green tinted.


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## frommrstomommy (Jul 22, 2013)

Robin_Usagani said:


> I think OP original edits were good.  The last one looks green tinted.



did you click it? the thumbnail is crazy.


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## Robin_Usagani (Jul 22, 2013)

WTF?  The preview thumbnail looks horrible.  LOL  I understand not being as sharp or something.  But showing a totally different color is totally unacceptable.  WTH TPF?  After I click it, it looks pretty good.


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## frommrstomommy (Jul 22, 2013)

Robin_Usagani said:


> WTF?  The preview thumbnail looks horrible.  LOL  I understand not being as sharp or something.  But showing a totally different color is totally unacceptable.  WTH TPF?  After I click it, it looks pretty good.



I see thumbnails jacked up all the time. My phone is even showing my originals randomly GREEN like that too now.. something is weird.


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## kathyt (Jul 22, 2013)

frommrstomommy said:


> another version.. I used your method of looking at the numbers and tried my hand at it. i used her cheek though.. using between her eyes made her too orangey for me. I also upped the exposure on just her a tiny bit instead of the entire image to avoid blowing out the dress.
> 
> View attachment 50673


I was going to tell you one thing. When you are picking a mid tone to check the RGB numbers, the cheek would not generally be one of them. The cheek is going to be a highlight most of the time.


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## frommrstomommy (Jul 22, 2013)

So I was messing with another image trying to look at the #s and I am just not getting it.. when I think I have the #s where they are "supposed to be" the image is like crazy yellow/orange.. lol 




shelby (1 of 1)-8 by capturedbybc, on Flickr


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## DanOstergren (Jul 22, 2013)

frommrstomommy said:


> If anyone else wanted to take a stab at this one I'm happy to send over the raw image. (regular posters only please lol)


I'll give it a go. ostergrendan@yahoo.com


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## kathyt (Jul 22, 2013)

frommrstomommy said:


> So I was messing with another image trying to look at the #s and I am just not getting it.. when I think I have the #s where they are "supposed to be" the image is like crazy yellow/orange.. lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It gets VERY tricky when you are shooting in backlighting. Backlighting can be extremely hard to edit, and sometimes I have to get rid of alot of color casts. You are getting deep here. You jumped to like chapter 7!  You are still going to start with a reading from a bright _midtone _spot, and continue the same way. Sometimes it just takes a little bit longer to get things just right with backlighting and haze.


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## kathyt (Jul 22, 2013)

frommrstomommy said:


> kathythorson said:
> 
> 
> > frommrstomommy said:
> ...


By the way, I love her style and can I borrow the dress for my trip to Mexico?


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## frommrstomommy (Jul 22, 2013)

kathythorson said:


> frommrstomommy said:
> 
> 
> > kathythorson said:
> ...



Sure!  I'll meet ya at the border..  I'm only 30 min from it!  Lol


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