# Film & Photography 3rd worst major



## KmH (Oct 9, 2012)

Acccording to this anyway:

10 worst majors for your career- MSN Money


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## unpopular (Oct 9, 2012)

If you're going into philosophy or fine art for the money, then you're doing it wrong.

also, is this undergrad only? because these are literally all academic fields which pretty much require at least a Masters degree to get a job. In teh case of anthropology, you'll need a PhD.

This is like saying that premed is a bad major because you didn't go through with medical school.


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## MLeeK (Oct 9, 2012)

SHOCKER! And not surprisingly many of the others are art fields as well. Hence the term STARVING ARTIST!

Sociology surprised me a little, though!


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## sapper6fd (Oct 9, 2012)

Anthropology is number 1?  Wow.  I would have thought they all worked for museums full time and were contracted by the FBI to solve crimes on their own just like in the TV show Bones!  Why are they the worst?  They solve crimes better than the police and in record time with each case too! I'm shocked!!


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## KenC (Oct 9, 2012)

Of the two anthropology majors I can think of, one is an English teacher overseas and the other works for an insurance company.  I guess the museums were full-up.


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## 480sparky (Oct 9, 2012)

Wait... what?  Why is anthropology so bad?

After all, you get to travel to exotic locations, enjoy off-the-beaten-path accommodations, partake in local food, participate in native customs........


Just think of the photo ops you'd have that would make National Geographic* cry*!


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## MLeeK (Oct 9, 2012)

480sparky said:


> Wait... what?  Why is anthropology so bad?
> 
> After all, you get to travel to exotic locations, enjoy off-the-beaten-path accommodations, partake in local food, participate in native customs........
> 
> ...



That would be *IF* you can find a paying job!


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## MLeeK (Oct 9, 2012)

sapper6fd said:


> Anthropology is number 1?  Wow.  I would have thought they all worked for museums full time and were contracted by the FBI to solve crimes on their own just like in the TV show Bones!  Why are they the worst?  They solve crimes better than the police and in record time with each case too! I'm shocked!!



I think you watch a little too much TV.  You do know that isn't REAL, don't you?


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## Derrel (Oct 9, 2012)

MLeeK said:


> SHOCKER! And not surprisingly many of the others are art fields as well. Hence the term STARVING ARTIST!
> 
> Sociology surprised me a little, though!



I LOVE the sig file that Sw1tchFx has lately: "*What's the difference between an artist and a large pizza? The pizza can feed a family of four!*"


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## sapper6fd (Oct 9, 2012)

MLeeK said:


> sapper6fd said:
> 
> 
> > Anthropology is number 1?  Wow.  I would have thought they all worked for museums full time and were contracted by the FBI to solve crimes on their own just like in the TV show Bones!  Why are they the worst?  They solve crimes better than the police and in record time with each case too! I'm shocked!!
> ...



Sarcasm doesn&#8217;t travel well on forums I guess.  Hahaha.  

You mean it&#8217;s not real?   So when they use a paint brush to carefully dust off the dirt on a buried gun and then pick it up with their bare hands, cock the weapon to make it safe and then drop it in a bag, I&#8217;m not seeing how its really done?!?!?!  OMG!!!  

I NEED TO JUMP OFF A BRIDGE!  MY VIEW OF LIFE HAS BEEN DISTORTED BY TELEVISION!  

Good thing when I land on concrete I&#8217;ll be able to get up and run off just like Wile E Coyote in the cartoons!


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## MLeeK (Oct 9, 2012)

sapper6fd said:


> MLeeK said:
> 
> 
> > sapper6fd said:
> ...


I am so sorry to have ruined your day!


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## unpopular (Oct 9, 2012)

you people just don't get it. you don't go into these fields to make millions.

seriously you're all sounding like a bunch of squares.


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## 480sparky (Oct 9, 2012)

MLeeK said:


> I am so sorry to have ruined your day!



His day will be ruined when the ACME safe falls on him.


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## pixmedic (Oct 9, 2012)

the Medical field is getting pretty rough now too..
an associates in nursing (RN) used to guarantee you a job almost anywhere you wanted. even 5-6 years ago. 
NOW all the agencies want bachelor degrees (BSN) because of the state accreditation requirements. 
Paramedics like me? we're a dime a dozen now. easily replaced because it only requires a year and a half of school (including EMT) I want to do the bridge RN program next year, but that will only get me the AS RN degree, so im not really sure how long it will take me to find work as a nurse with that.


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## The_Traveler (Oct 9, 2012)

unpopular said:


> you people just don't get it. you don't go into these fields to make millions.
> 
> seriously you're all sounding like a bunch of squares.



I don't know which is 'worse', knowingly going into a field where you know there is no path to any kind of financial security (like Egyptology) or going to the university equivalent of a trade school like majoring in accounting.

I preferred the middle road, doing a diverse course of study that actually educated me, knowing that I needed to divert to some study that would actually afford a living sometime.
(I encouraged my children to do the same and that was generally successful.)

I am routinely stunned to meet college graduates who actually seem to know nothing, have read nothing and seemed to actually have thought about nothing.


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## unpopular (Oct 9, 2012)

I think there is something admirable about studying something for the sake of knowledge, for the opportunity to contribute something more valuable than tax income, or to teach others.

If you get a degree in secondary education and history, it seems that people think that is a very worthwhile course of action - teaching kids history. But if your plan is to get a PhD in history and teach college kids, then you're foolish. Nevermind that college professors make more money.

But education can't be valued by how much you make. The knowledge you gain has to be worth something. I suppose if you don't learn anything then it's not.

Frankly, I'm surprised that business administration isn't on this list. When you look at the sheer number of business majors, and how incredibly _stupid_ the overwhelming majority of them are, there just can't be enough jobs out there for them all. Then again, I guess MSN wouldn't want to bite the hand that feeds.


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## MLeeK (Oct 9, 2012)

unpopular said:


> I think there is something admirable about studying something for the sake of knowledge, for the opportunity to contribute something more valuable than tax income, or to teach others.
> 
> If you get a degree in secondary education and history, it seems that people think that is a very worthwhile course of action - teaching kids history. But if your plan is to get a PhD in history and teach college kids, then you're foolish. Nevermind that college professors make more money.
> 
> But education can't be valued by how much you make. The knowledge you gain has to be worth something. I suppose if you don't learn anything then it's not.


You have some points there, but they don't apply to the article. The article IS about money and what these career outlooks are for employment and monetary compensation. NOT about the education being a waste itself.


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## unpopular (Oct 9, 2012)

Then that goes to my previous statements. I think these are about undergrad degrees in fields which absolutely require a master's degree of higher to get work.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Oct 9, 2012)

sapper6fd said:


> Anthropology is number 1?  Wow.  I would have thought they all worked for museums full time and were contracted by the FBI to solve crimes on their own just like in the TV show Bones!  Why are they the worst?  They solve crimes better than the police and in record time with each case too! I'm shocked!!



No wonfer this cute litle gal i know can't seem to land a job.

Guess one needs to find and sell the winning fossil to make a buck?


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## unpopular (Oct 9, 2012)

No. That's paleontology. Anthropologists don't even dig! They take what the Archeologists dig up and figure out what it all means. It's really a field you teach and conduct research in a university setting. You're not going to make any money with an undergrad degree in anthropology.

Sociology is a little bit different and studies more human behavior and trends in large groups. There actually is a fair amount of work for sociologists in marketing research and government fields. Any survey you've filled out was probably designed by a sociologist.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Oct 9, 2012)

Ohhhhhhhhhhh!


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## unpopular (Oct 9, 2012)

Yeah, my wife, who is a sociology major (prelaw), had classmates who actually did research on STD trends on the Crow Indian reservation for the Indian Health Board. From the data they gathered they were able to determine cultural factors which contribute to the spread of diseases.

Sociology is kind of a bridge between anthropology (the study of human culture) and psychology (the study of human behavior).


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## sapper6fd (Oct 9, 2012)

unpopular said:


> If you get a degree in secondary education and history, it seems that people think that is a very worthwhile course of action - teaching kids history. But if your plan is to get a PhD in history and teach college kids, then you're foolish. Nevermind that college professors make more money.



Not sure if you&#8217;re aware or not, but University Professors for the most part don&#8217;t want to teach. They hate it, and they only reason a lot of them do it is because they need to in order to keep their position at the university. Most professors (especially those with PHD's) are working on various projects, performing research, proving or disproving theories. But if they want their funding from the university to keep flowing they are required to teach a certain number of courses. If they could, they would focus solely on their projects and leaving teaching out of it.


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## unpopular (Oct 9, 2012)

^^ with all those business majors, I hardly blame them!


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## amolitor (Oct 9, 2012)

College is not trade school. You can always get a couple thousand words for your dumb magazine out of 'how bad college is at being a trade school' though, and for some reason magazines love the form. Why they don't also publish pieces on how 'chemistry is not poetry' and 'virtually ONE HUNDRED PERCENT of horses are found, upon inspection, to not be sheep' I cannot answer.

It does not help that colleges and universities market themselves as trade schools, to a degree.

If you want a guaranteed job, to the the Webb Institute. If you want your mind expanded (in part by getting stoned and talking about Nietzsche, yes -- that broadens the mind too) go to university.


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## usayit (Oct 9, 2012)

The age of going to college to study and pursue your interests then hope for the best post-graduation is OVER.   Sadly, college education must be treated as an investment.


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## 21limited (Oct 9, 2012)

OK, so those are the stats, but if you take photography there are lots of other jobs you can use it. If you work in a hospital and you have photography , get yuorself into doing the photos or videos of medical procedures etc. According to this you wouldn't be working in your field, but it sure gives you a leg up on everyone else. I did a year in photography at Ryerson Polytech in Toronto then went into a trade. Photography was just too much of a hustle for me, I was a very shy person. I had trouble asking girls to come in and model (free head and shouldes shots professionally done so I could get my studio asignments done. Being 17 in a school of 20 year olds didn't help.) Worked 8 years went from raw apprentice to production manager in 6 years as a cabinet maker in a furniture plant., went back to school and became a shop teacher. After 10 years of teaching shop, the photography teacher retired and I took his position. For 15 years I taught photography and then Communication Technology of which photography is now included. Believe it or not, they didn't say, "because you're the photography teacher you should be paid less."  IN fact for 6 years I was a department head with lots of BA's working for me, even though technically I had high school and two years of teaching education and photography, One certificate, no BA, not even a trade school certificate. At that point I was making more than the BAs and tech certificate guys. So all I can say is people can publish whatever the heck they want.....

One of my photography buddies opened a business on Queen street in Toronto. He got work shooting department store catalogues etc. and was able to buy an old warehouse to use for his studio. After years of breaking even, digital came in and he only needed a studio 6 weeks a year, and he found a place he could rent. He sold his studio (it's now condos). He's now a millionaire, how many of the dimwats who wrote that study are millionaires? 

You can over simplify things to the point where your stats have no meaning. I'd suggest a lot of Photography grads have had very successful lives and were happy doing what they were doing. Exactly how that played out, maybe it wasn't the straight path they expected. Maybe their photography got them into something they liked more, where photography was useful, like Real Estate or internet car sales. 

I'd never tell someone to major in Photography, but if in your blood and that's the way you decide you want to go, don't listen to anyone who tells you you're doomed.

PS, now I'm retired as a teacher, I take a huge number of photos of the area where I live and sell the best at art shows. I'm not making any money but I have to say, as something to do in your later years, photography is awesome. My wife and I wake up every day with places to go and things to take pictures of, without having to worry about a regular pay check. Even if it doesn't make you any money, it's still a life long passion that you'll be able to pursue until they lock you up in a home. Every now and then I find the 12 photos that got me into Ryerson 45 years ago, and they still make me happy. It just never gets old.


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## usayit (Oct 9, 2012)

21limited said:


> OK, so those are the stats, but if you take photography there are lots of other jobs you can use it. If you work in a hospital and you have photography , get yuorself into doing the photos or videos of medical procedures etc..



The smarter thing to do would be to have majored in another field and apply photography to it....  not the other way around.

You want to shoot weddings... get a business degree.
You want to shoot for the police... major in criminology.
You want to shoot dead people... major in something related to forensic science.
You want to shoot street... go for journalism.

Not saying you can't find your way if you work at it... but its the "long" way to go about it.

Heck... the local community college has a 2 year program for photography technology.  Its cheap  and you can do it AFTER you finish a degree that offers opportunity.   I took photo 101 4 times (with no grade) just to have access to their darkroom/lab for around $360 a year.

PS> I would also surmise that taking photos for internet car sales and the alike isn't what most people consider a career in photography.


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## MLeeK (Oct 9, 2012)

usayit said:


> 21limited said:
> 
> 
> > OK, so those are the stats, but if you take photography there are lots of other jobs you can use it. If you work in a hospital and you have photography , get yuorself into doing the photos or videos of medical procedures etc..
> ...


EXCELLENT POST!!!
Photography is easy to learn. You need something else far more than a photography education no matter what you want to do with photography. You can get the photography part of it on-line or in books for nearly free.


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## unpopular (Oct 9, 2012)

and if you want to teach fine art photography at a university, get an MFA. 

The problem isn't the BFA, it's that people don't get them for the right reason.


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## usayit (Oct 9, 2012)

The new American job: part-time? - CNN.com

GRrr.... Its not the economy.  Simply put the chosen degree and the value of the skill behind it is subject to market value.   Not everyone wants a photographer... but there may be employers who want a writer, journalist, manager, or business person who just happen to know how to work a camera or even have an eye for photography.

The economy (or future speculation) impacts hiring, wages, and consumer spending.  But in the end, employers want people with a marketable skill.  The recession (or depression) could end tomorrow.. it still doesn't change the fact that there is an entire market of people with more marketable skills than a straight up photographer.  An entire market of skilled workers who will compete for the same limited jobs.

I've seen a few of these articles lately.. and they keep bringing attention to  the fine arts, liberal arts, photography, etc college grads who accumulated $100,000+ of debt pursing their interests.  Then blame it on high unemployment....  its just bad future planning.   Then they forget the SKILLED blue collar workers that built this country who actually perfected a marketable skill or craft yet still can't find a job to their best efforts.


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## unpopular (Oct 9, 2012)

what a bunch of baloney. if there was demand enough, employers would be willing to hire people from other specialties.

I've seen receptionist positions listed that required a bachelor's degree - a bachelors degree to answer phones! The truth of the matter is that aside from a few technical jobs, good jobs exist that do not require specialized degrees, and if the demand were high enough, more employers would be willing to train people - *like they used to*.


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## IByte (Oct 9, 2012)

Pffft Electronician, plumbers, HVAC, wielders, sheet metal Techs, an auto mechanics will guarantee you will never go hungry.


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## jake337 (Oct 9, 2012)

It seems allot who get degrees in photography forget to get a degree in business along with it.


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## unpopular (Oct 9, 2012)

wtf does a business degree teach anyway? as far as I can tell it's just a bunch of bogus phrases. It's all regurgitating back a made-up vocabulary. BS about "synergy" and "group think" - ideas that exist already in real disciplines like psychology and social science, but dumbed down for students who go to college to drink and play basketball! 

The accounting part makes sense. But a business administration degree is a garbage degree. TOTAL and complete garbage. 

The only reason it has any weight is because powerful people honor it.

Honestly, I think you either just have business sense, or you have it by virtue of determination, trial and error. I don't think successful businesses are something that can be taught in school.


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## usayit (Oct 9, 2012)

unpopular said:
			
		

> wtf does a business degree teach anyway? as far as I can tell it's just a bunch of bogus phrases. It's all regurgitating back a made-up vocabulary. BS about "synergy" and "group think" - ideas that exist already in real disciplines like psychology and social science, but dumbed down for students who go to college to drink and play basketball!
> 
> The accounting part makes sense. But a business administration degree is a garbage degree. TOTAL and complete garbage.
> 
> ...



oh god please tell me you are joking....


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## unpopular (Oct 9, 2012)

no. not at ALL. I mean, I'll admit, I haven't taken that many Business administration classes, so maybe I'm wrong ... but looking at most business administration majors, I kind of doubt they are even capable of critical thinking ... the vast majority of them will only get work for no other reason than the degree they hold, not because they're going to have any greater skills than anyone else.


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## unpopular (Oct 9, 2012)

Fran55k said:


> This is like saying that premed is a bad major because you didn't go through with medical school.



atleast other undergraduate degrees actually TEACH something; besides, I very much doubt that any professional photographer here has an MBA... or if there is, they are a select few.


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## usayit (Oct 9, 2012)

Anyone can pay for a degree....

It takes a motivated intellegent individual to learn what is being taught and apply it....

Dont confuse the two.... 


If you dont believe it takes a good foundation in management, economics, legal, and business to be come successful at business then you are sorely misinformed.  There is a big difference between degrees focused on business, management, business administration as well as the MBA.  Yes, I will agree that colleges have over diluted degrees focused on the study of business but some of the most successful startups as well as corporations are directed with some of the most talented minds in business who built ontop of a foundation that started in a good business program.

yes... its painfully obvious you have never been through even through an introduction to business.   You should read up on it... it might inspre or at the very least teach you to at least have a simple understanding with an open mind before showing such strong critism.


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## usayit (Oct 9, 2012)

unpopular said:
			
		

> atleast other undergraduate degrees actually TEACH something; besides, I very much doubt that any professional photographer here has an MBA... or if there is, they are a select few.



Any degree is what the individual makes of it.... yes all degrees TEACH you something.  This includes photography, fine arts, anthropology (which can be difficult I might add) as well as each and every degree listed on the original linked article.  

What a degree DOES NOT guarantee is that your selected education and/or skill will be of high value in the open job market.  Just like the cost of a product has little to do with the cost to manufacture or the cost of raw materials, the market value of a particular knowledge or skill has little to do with the difficulty of the study or cost of said education.


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## unpopular (Oct 10, 2012)

And I'd say that skill really has less to do with it than you believe. I think the reason why you can't get work with an anthropology degree has more to do with a large supply of labor in general with lowered demand. I doubt any business would say "oh, well, we can't make any sales right now because there just aren't enough marketing degree holders to work as salesmen! guess we better just close up shop!"

If this were the case, they'd be training those anthropologists to make sales calls.


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## unpopular (Oct 10, 2012)

... but still, I maintain that business is a degree people tend to gravitate towered if they don't actually want to do any work.

What was the longest paper you had to write in an undergraduate business course, and how long did it take you to write it? I'm not saying you can't benefit from a business degree, or make it into something - but that's going to be pretty hard if the program caters to C- students.


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## usayit (Oct 10, 2012)

unpopular said:
			
		

> And I'd say that skill really has less to do with it than you believe. I think the reason why you can't get work with an anthropology degree has more to do with a large supply of labor in general with lowered demand.



this is what I have been trying to get across to you.   Business studies are valuable especially for the entreprenuer amd small business owner which make up a large portion of photography related workers.  Dont confuse the rather large recent influx of business degree earners of lately with those that have a solid knowledge in business with a strong business education.  



> I doubt any business would say "oh, well, we can't make any sales right now because there just aren't enough marketing degree holders to work as salesmen! guess we better just close up shop!"
> 
> If this were the case, they'd be training those anthropologists to make sales calls.



You are confusing business, management, administration and marketing.   Many companies' sales forces are not comprised of marketing folks.


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## unpopular (Oct 10, 2012)

usayit said:


> You are confusing business, management, administration and marketing.   Many companies' sales forces are not comprised of marketing folks.



My point is that everything is so inflated right now that you need a degree to do anything. Like I said, I've seen receptionist listings that required a 4-year degree!



> this is what I have been trying to get across to you. Business studies are valuable especially for the entreprenuer amd small business owner which make up a large portion of photography related workers. Dont confuse the rather large recent influx of business degree earners of lately with those that have a solid knowledge in business with a strong business education.​




And this all goes back to why this is such a stupid article/video. If you want to make money, you don't get a BA Philosophy and expect to work in Philosophy. You don't get an BFA and expect to get hired on immediately as a professor at RISD or RIT. You don't get a premed degree and expect to pull in a quarter million a year as a neurosurgeon.

Academic degrees require more education. You can say the yield is lower, but what that's worth to people just cannot be measured.

There are plenty of business degree holders who think that by virtue of the fact they'll be successful entrepreneurs. I cold-called a guy once who tried to start a restaurant, offering to do his marketing and advertising because I figured he MUST have known it sucked ... the guy thought because he took some business classes he had it nailed. The place never became very popular and as a result it failed. 

There are plenty who get jobs for no other reason than the fact that they hold a a given degree and not because they're any more skilled than anyone else. Do you really need a four year degree to answer phones? I'm pretty sure a highschool diploma would have done just fine in 1998. The only thing that has changed in the market.​


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## usayit (Oct 10, 2012)

unpopular said:
			
		

> ... but still, I maintain that business is a degree people tend to gravitate towered if they don't actually want to do any work.
> 
> What was the longest paper you had to write in an undergraduate business course, and how long did it take you to write it?



i study business, politics and economics as a side interest choosing to pursue my primary interest in technology (originally intended to try a photography career /  small business post degree).  I fell back into technology because I realized three things.  The earnings potential and the work life balance of many successful photographers are not ideal.  I have a "difficulties" in an academic environment which means I need a career in which a hands on jack of all trades of sorts can strive and continue to evolve to compete inthe job market.  For this I am willing to take lower paying jobs to be exposed to emerging technologies and skills... its getting harder as my obligations to my family grow.  Its a career choice in which the market can and will place higher importance on experience over credentials/ degrees.  Finally, the earning potential is good albeit stagnant due to lower corporate investment as they react to an uncertain economy... work life balance can still be a challenge.

I almost didnt even make it into college... to tell you the truth.  I was so frustrated with studies that I wanted to learn a trade.... auto mechanics but my father saw potential and forced me to at least try.  I did.  I may not be the highest ranking worker at my current company but I am able to prove myself and my quality work among a group of individuals that have earned multole degrees, masters and PHds.  So For that I am glad my father forced me.


Trust me....  my papers are short. lol.  I can code and do engineering level tasks far better. I have been told that I do well presenting to a large audience which I find ironic as I hated speaking in front of groups as a kid and throughout college.


the key is that you need to be able to compete in the marketplace and simply being a degree earner is not enough.   How to compete?  certainly going into certain studies with limited prospects is not a way to get a head start


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## unpopular (Oct 10, 2012)

I've always been a lousy student, and I do have neurological and psychiatric conditions which have made it impossible for _me_ to finish at this point in time.

My wife is one of those students that people will see and think it comes easily, and I've met others like her through her academic experience. They're a pretty high-tension group, they're only successful due to the tremendous pressure which their addiction of the letter "A" brings. It doesn't come as easy as it looks, the steady stream of caffein and nootropics takes it's toll by the end of each term.


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## unpopular (Oct 10, 2012)

usayit said:


> the key is that you need to be able to compete in the marketplace and simply being a degree earner is not enough.   How to compete?  certainly going into certain studies with limited prospects is not a way to get a head start



but really, doesn't it all come down to what you want to do with your life? my wife could get a law degree and focus on corporate law, make tons and tons of money, more money than I would even remotely know what to do with. but that's not really what motivates her. so she'll be getting a MSW/JD ... a degree pretty much determining her underpaid future.

I know LOTS of art majors, and yeah, a lot of them do work day jobs. some occasionally even in retail (god forbid!) But they're _happy_.


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## usayit (Oct 10, 2012)

unpopular said:
			
		

> but really, doesn't it all come down to what you want to do with your life? my wife could get a law degree and focus on corporate law, make tons and tons of money. but that's not really what motivates her. so she'll be getting a MSW/JD ... a degree pretty much determining her underpaid future.
> 
> I know LOTS of art majors, and yeah, a lot of them do work day jobs. But they're happy.



Sure... but for some financial security (and I don't necessarily mean rich) is part of that happiness.  To provide for my family was part of mine... which is why I bought out first home right out of college while many of my recent grad workers bought expensive cars.  We still live in that home albeit out growing it but happy we are not "stuck" in the housing crunch like so many.  I personally would hate to be that photography major with probably a sizable college loan working the popcorn machine at the movie theater without any clear indication of direction.   

The point of the article and this thread was to point out that there are some degrees that dont have much to offer in opportunities...  there are better ways.  Your wife's study does offer opportunities which is great... even if she chooses the route that results in being underpaid...  its still a degree that opens doors.    A student of business with an interest in photography is bound to have more opportunities than a student of photography.


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## unpopular (Oct 10, 2012)

Yes. And with the economy the way it's going, there will only be more people in need of inexpensive or free legal representation; legal family troubles isn't going anywhere - and if anything, may only increase!

But i don't know. IIRC even anthropology was at 10% unemployment. With a national rate of around 8%, I think the report is highly exaggerated; and it only makes sense that these degrees will perform the worse as employers are less motivated to train candidates.

And how many of these retail worker [the horrors!] fine art and anthropology majors are actually grad students?

IMO though, if you own a house and shoot film on Leica, then I'd say you're doing pretty well for yourself. No offense intended, but everyone thinks they're "middle class" - that's actually statistically proven. People live on way more than what they actually need, and plenty of people live perfectly adequate lives working at the mall, renting apartments. Truly, more than you'd think.


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## JAC526 (Oct 10, 2012)

Business degrees sadly do not teach people how to run businesses.


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## skieur (Oct 11, 2012)

usayit said:


> The new American job: part-time? - CNN.com
> 
> GRrr.... Its not the economy. Simply put the chosen degree and the value of the skill behind it is subject to market value. Not everyone wants a photographer... but there may be employers who want a writer, journalist, manager, or business person who just happen to know how to work a camera or even have an eye for photography. .



Yes, there is nothing like being the only one in the company that can write scripts, articles and productions, as well as edit the input of others, shoot photography, shoot video, do television production, do graphics: animated and still, as well as work in more than one language. (No sarcasm here. I have done all of the above.)

skieur


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## pgriz (Oct 11, 2012)

Being in business and making money is about supplying a scarce service or product (few or no competitors) to a strong demand (which allows generous margins).  A business degree helps teach the tools (marketing, sales, financial analysis and management, time management, administration, HR management), but what one does with the tools depends on the person.  Almost by definition, anyone working in a field where there are many competitors, is in a commodity market, with commodity pricing, and a commodity purchasing mentality.  The reason that photography is not good at bringing in the bucks for most people, is that they are in the commodity part of the market, and are not doing anything to find a profitable niche.  Skieur is probably one who has figured out such a niche.  


One characteristic of a niche is that it is always shifting and moving - as soon as others realize you have something good going on, they tend to move in, usually with lots more money than you have.  The successful business person is always on the outlook both for the opportunity (new niche), and for the new entrants to the field that will erode their current position within their current niche.


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## bhop (Oct 11, 2012)

Because it's only about makin' that cheddah!


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## rexbobcat (Oct 11, 2012)

Does it make me a bad American to not want a family and instead I want to do what I enjoy even though it doesn't have the financial security that my mom keeps preaching to me is the best option ever (THERE IS NO OTHER WAY...)

I just watched a video of a philosopher's speech and one line was:

"You'll be doing things you don't like doing in order to go on living, that is, to go on doing things you don't like doing, which is stupid." 

- Alan Watts


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## TheFantasticG (Oct 11, 2012)

I went to a trade school and ended up in the oil field. Great thing is I only work half the year and make more than my GP doctor. I could have went to a four year but I didn't want to go through that. Honestly, glad I didn't because if I did would be making a lot less money than I am now with a whole lot more time at work.


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## usayit (Oct 11, 2012)

rexbobcat said:


> Does it make me a bad American to not want a family and instead I want to do what I enjoy even though it doesn't have the financial security that my mom keeps preaching to me is the best option ever (THERE IS NO OTHER WAY...)



There is absolutely nothing wrong with that....Many starving happy artists out there.

*Its your life.......*

The issue are the cry babies that pursued that course (even spent thousands upon thousands in college studies doing so) and complain about their situation....  even worse blame it on others.

*..... take responsibility for it*





I happen to agree with your mom though....  there is a lot to be learned through "surviving" through life.  You can balance work and life without compromising either.  You already have life... by simply breathing.   Its WORK you have to put effort into: focus on it early and you might end up on a path that provides a good stable future at something you hopefully enjoy or find fulfilling.   Establish that early and you have an ideal "work vs life" balance that many strive to achieve and maintain.


I have worked two low paying jobs in lieu of a single higher paying job simply to learn a new skill which has now taken me further than if I had just stuck with the higher pay.


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## unpopular (Oct 11, 2012)

That's the thing though, where the hell are these whiney liberal arts majors, anyway? The occupiers? That's a nice stereotype that we'd all love to believe, but I have yet to see a single statistic that supports the idea that they're all anthropology graduates.

I doubt very much that everyone who is unemployed has a liberal arts degree, or that the unemployment rate is the fault ineffective education.


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## usayit (Oct 11, 2012)

unpopular said:


> That's the thing though, where the hell are these whiney liberal arts majors, anyway? The occupiers? That's a nice stereotype that we'd all love to believe, but I have yet to see a single statistic that supports the idea that they're all anthropology graduates.
> 
> I doubt very much that everyone who is unemployed has a liberal arts degree, or that the unemployment rate is the fault ineffective education.



Not what I meant.....

Whiners are not necessarily low opportunity degree earners

Neither are all the complainers people without real concerns or problems..... there are many many many people who have every right and reason to complain about their situation.  

I happen to agree with SOME of the points of the occupiers. 


Reminder.. this thread started out with a list of majors with little opportunity listing photography as one of them.   The topic are the unemployed degree holders.  Heck... I didn't even know you can get a Masters in Liberal Arts until I read that article.  I always though a liberal arts major was a person who was essentially undecided.


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## unpopular (Oct 11, 2012)

I am not sure that I mentioned this yet, my father is a computer programmer with a masters degree in American Studies.


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## usayit (Oct 11, 2012)

That's fine... my first job was attached to a kernel development group with HP with a few with simply a high school diploma.  There were no computer degrees back then.

Programming is easy...

Its architecture and design where computer knowledge meets the sciences that is difficult.  


U really like to try push peoples buttons for ****s and giggles don't yah?   Only the truly ignorant call business majors useless without actually taking a business course nor make such a statement without knowing much about software development.


over and out.


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## unpopular (Oct 11, 2012)

i'm not saying anything about CS, only that lots of people work in fields which they don't actually went to school for - like the 90% of other BS holders in anthropology who are employed.

and yeah, business degrees are a joke! sure, you'll get a career from them, but if business undergrads are any indication, any dumbbell can go pass a business class. I guess if you want to get a career without actually doing anything in college, i suppose business is the way to go. if you want more out of life than just money, then something else might be a better option.


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## rexbobcat (Oct 11, 2012)

usayit said:


> rexbobcat said:
> 
> 
> > Does it make me a bad American to not want a family and instead I want to do what I enjoy even though it doesn't have the financial security that my mom keeps preaching to me is the best option ever (THERE IS NO OTHER WAY...)
> ...



Yes but my mom isn't referring to just general work. She's referring to work that is financially secure, regardless of whether it's what you want to do. I'm not below getting a low paying job to make ends meat, but I am against wasting time at a university to get a degree just so you can be mediocre in whatever you plan to pursue just so you have lots of money. That kind of life has no substance to me.

I understand having day jobs to pay for hobbies, but I don't understand have a full time job that you hate, BUT it pays good so it's all okay. That doesn't seem like a very nice existence.

My mom tells my little bro that he should become a pharmacist, so guess what, he says he wants to go to go get a pharmacy degree. I keep telling him NOT to just go and decide to do it just because of the money or because my mom says so.


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## amolitor (Oct 12, 2012)

Moms want to look out for their kids, it's their thing. They want to know you're gonna have enough to eat and some place to sleep.

Luckily, you live in the USA where pretty much everyone has enough to eat, even the few people that don't have someplace to sleep. Be nice to mom and assure her that you're going to be ok. Then, do what you want to do. You're a grownup, and you get to do that. I think you probably have a pretty clear idea of what kind of lifestyle you can sustain doing photography, and what's required to make that happen. My opinion is that things are going to get tougher over time in that biz, but that's just an opinion.


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## skieur (Oct 12, 2012)

pgriz said:


> Being in business and making money is about supplying a scarce service or product (few or no competitors) to a strong demand (which allows generous margins). A business degree helps teach the tools (marketing, sales, financial analysis and management, time management, administration, HR management), but what one does with the tools depends on the person. Almost by definition, anyone working in a field where there are many competitors, is in a commodity market, with commodity pricing, and a commodity purchasing mentality. The reason that photography is not good at bringing in the bucks for most people, is that they are in the commodity part of the market, and are not doing anything to find a profitable niche. Skieur is probably one who has figured out such a niche.
> 
> 
> One characteristic of a niche is that it is always shifting and moving - as soon as others realize you have something good going on, they tend to move in, usually with lots more money than you have. The successful business person is always on the outlook both for the opportunity (new niche), and for the new entrants to the field that will erode their current position within their current niche.



One of the most intelligent posts that I have seen here in several years. Another characteristic of a niche is a surfing analogy: staying ahead of the wave/change/improvement in technology. Be the first to change and experiment with new technology and you will be the first to profit from it. 

Bottom line is that it does not matter who makes the camera. If it offers a feature that none of your competitors have and you can use that feature to stay ahead of your competition, then it is worth the investment.

skieur


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