# HDR photography101, 201, 401 + Why does canon hate Auto Exposure Bracketing?



## Majeed Badizadegan

For those of us who are interested in HDR (High Dynamic Range) photography it is a real shame how Canon has completely crippled even their mid to high end cameras by limiting AEB (Auto Exposure Bracketing) to only 3 exposures.

A serious nod should go to Trey Ratcliff Stuck In Customs HDR Photography for his fantastic work and excellent implementation of HDR photography. Mr. Ratcliff primarily shoots 5 RAW exposures per scene, and given his vast array of work in HDR and the results, he knows what he's doing. He takes amazing photos. 

Why is it important in some challenging light situations to take more than 3 exposures? More shadow detail and more highlight detail can be extracted in challenging light situations. There is an excellent example of such a scenario where Mr. Ratcliff goes into detail on exactly this topic:





3 exposures is not enough for a lot of situations if you are serious about HDR. I personally use CS5 and Photomatix for post processing my AEB. I believe that HDR can be overcooked and have a fake look to it. A lot of people overdo it. But if it's done correctly it opens up a whole new world of photography, and your photos. You can shoot scenes and light situations that were not possible before. 

Serious HDR photographers understand that touching the camera in any way (e.g. moving the dials to set a new bracket to take more exposures) is UNDESIRABLE because you are adding time to your bracket and possibly mistakenly moving the camera. Ghosting from even the slightest movement can be a problem if the camera is moved when adjusting brackets. Secondly, imagine shooting a sky where the clouds are moving quickly. Even 1 or 2 seconds of messing around with your dials/brackets is not desirable. This article flushes this topic out in great detail. 
My favorite quote in the article:



> *Time and any instability including touching the camera are enemies of the HDR photographer*. (From user Big Al p.2)



Canon drops the ball by limiting to 3 exposures in a big way. Here is a list of all digital cameras and their AEB limitations. 

Auto Exposure Bracketing by camera model

As you can see in the first column, even professional cameras like the 5D MK II ($2499.00 Body only @ Amazon) are limited to 3 exposures. This makes no sense to me. When you scroll down the list to Nikon cameras, one can see right away that many of the Nikon cameras allow 2-9 exposures in their respective AEB brackets .

One can see right away that you can get the built in functionality of higher AEB at a much lower entry cost with Nikon. (E.g. Nikon D300s $1,198 body only). Notice from this chart Canon* only offers built-in higher AEB (3,5,7) in their 1D series*. What does that mean? If you want to shoot HDR with Canon you need some serious coin, or you have to resort to clunky alternatives (will explain later). For the 1D series, You're paying an entry price of $4,000+ (body only, and this is a conservative estimate) for a functionality that Nikon offers in most of their mid to high end cameras. (Although, it's a shame that it doesn't appear on the D7000.) 

Here are some useful templates that break down each respective DSLR family of cameras. 

Template:Nikon DSLR cameras - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Template:Canon DSLR cameras - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


I've researched many of the *alternatives *out there for canon shooters. One alternative requires an expensive remote with cumbersome cords. 
(Read the reviews on Amazon for that and you'll see what I'm talking about). Others suggest tethering your camera via laptop or using apps on your phone. A few suggest using different firmware such as magic lantern (e.g. booting from a CF card instead of your cameras firmware). Some suggest using the custom dials on the DSLR itself (which still requires touching the camera, and still costs time).

All in all, the alternatives are cumbersome and SHOULD BE unnecessary. Why are we paying big money for DSLR's that have all these advanced technological capabilities, but don't allow us to have more control over something as simple as our bracket settings? Why do we have spend $2,000 more to get this feature in the 1D series? Almost all of the Canon DSLR's have the hardware capabilities to do this which makes the problem all the more frustrating. 

Canon, I'm calling you out. You have artifically crippled most of your cameras for no reason. Roll out a firmware update to keep your customers happy and get with the times. Hopefully new models of your cameras, coming out this year (I'm personally crossing my fingers for the 5D MK III), will addresss this issue. Or I'm going Nikon. Simple as that.


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## KmH

HDR is not a beginner technique.

TPF has an HDR forum section, but one has to scroll down the forum section page some to find it: 

HDR Discussions
High Dynamic Range Imaging (HDRI or just HDR) is a set of techniques that allows a greater dynamic range of luminances between light and dark areas of a scene.

Anyone else interested in HDR will find more HDR info in that forum section.


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## KmH

Rotanimod said:


> Canon, I'm calling you out. You have artifically crippled most of your cameras for no reason. Roll out a firmware update to keep your customers happy


Good luck with that.


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## 480sparky

Your camera isn't crippled.  The operator just hasn't discovered the "M".


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## KmH

Many can't seem to live without 'automatic', like in Automatic Exposure Bracketing (AEB).


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## Overread

*moved to HDR subsection*


If one is using a tripod to take the landscape shots for the HDR image and the timing of the shots needs to be exact you'll be hard pressed to get a full stack without any shake blur done in very tiny amounts of time, since to avoid all shake you'll be using the mirror lockup - which means at least a delay or 1/2 seconds per shot. Otherwise you're risking mirrorslap shake getting on the shots - in that case you might as well just twist the dial on the back a little to get your 5,6,7,etc... stack of exposures. 

I think saying that having an extended range of brackets would be desirable, but I think its a tall order to try and say its crippled the cameras.


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## Majeed Badizadegan

480sparky said:


> Your camera isn't crippled.  The operator just hasn't discovered the "M".



Please elaborate. Since you are quick to be condescending, I have no choice but to question your credibility: Being that it appears you shoot Nikon, what exactly do you even know about Canon DSLR AEB or the topic at hand? Do you even really know what you're talking about or are you just trolling?  

If so, please describe the exact Canon model "M" mode setting, Camera model, & settings that I should "discover" (mind you that the collective mindhive of the internet has not to this point) that will serve the purposes that I have outlined in EXHAUSTIVE detail here. 



KmH said:


> Many can't seem to live without 'automatic', like in Automatic Exposure Bracketing (AEB).



Not sure what you are saying here. 



Overread said:


> *moved to HDR subsection*
> 
> 
> If one is using a tripod to take the landscape shots for the HDR image and the timing of the shots needs to be exact you'll be hard pressed to get a full stack without any shake blur done in very tiny amounts of time, since to avoid all shake you'll be using the mirror lockup - which means at least a delay or 1/2 seconds per shot. Otherwise you're risking mirrorslap shake getting on the shots - in that case you might as well just twist the dial on the back a little to get your 5,6,7,etc... stack of exposures.
> 
> I think saying that having an extended range of brackets would be desirable, but I think its a tall order to try and say its crippled the cameras.



*Thanks for moving to appropriate section. 

I'd rather space out my shots evenly than deal with cumbersome dialing. I have never said that bracketing isn't possible, and there are alternatives like the ones you've mentioned. I'm just saying there is no good reason that Canon should exclude this simple feature from firmware in their mid-to-high end DSLRS (namely 7d, 5d Mk II, etc.) 

I do believe Canon has artificially crippled these cameras by removing the feature so the 1D marketing team has an easier job. That's what I'm saying.


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## 480sparky

Rotanimod said:


> 480sparky said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your camera isn't crippled.  The operator just hasn't discovered the "M".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please elaborate. Since you are quick to be condescending, I have no choice but to question your credibility: Being that it appears you shoot Nikon, what exactly do you even know about Canon DSLR AEB or the topic at hand? Do you even really know what you're talking about or are you just trolling?
> 
> If so, please describe the exact Canon model "M" mode setting that I should "discover" that will serve the purposes that I have outlined in EXHAUSTIVE detail here.
Click to expand...


M stands for _Manual_.  As in_ Manual exposure_.  You can take as many shots as your memory card will allow using that setting.  I'm fairly certain the function is in the owners manual.


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## dxqcanada

Back in the days before AEB ... we used to meter the scene, take one shot (camera on tripod), then manually change the exposure, take another shot, then manually change the exposure, take another shot ... etc = exposure bracketing.


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## Majeed Badizadegan

480sparky said:


> Rotanimod said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 480sparky said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your camera isn't crippled.  The operator just hasn't discovered the "M".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please elaborate. Since you are quick to be condescending, I have no choice but to question your credibility: Being that it appears you shoot Nikon, what exactly do you even know about Canon DSLR AEB or the topic at hand? Do you even really know what you're talking about or are you just trolling?
> 
> If so, please describe the exact Canon model "M" mode setting that I should "discover" that will serve the purposes that I have outlined in EXHAUSTIVE detail here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> M stands for _Manual_.  As in_ Manual exposure_.  You can take as many shots as your memory card will allow using that setting.  I'm fairly certain the function is in the owners manual.
Click to expand...


I am still not convinced you even understand what this thread is about. Or have even read the thread. Or that you even know what AEB is. And if you do, you're very bad at drawing connections or explaining yourself. I have provided a plethora of concerns here and have been incredibly specific about exactly what my concerns are, and I see no reason to repeat myself. So if you want to be vague and Troll-ish, go somewhere else.


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## Majeed Badizadegan

dxqcanada said:


> Back in the days before AEB ... we used to meter the scene, take one shot (camera on tripod), then manually change the exposure, take another shot, then manually change the exposure, take another shot ... etc = exposure bracketing.



To me, taking only 3 exposures and manually moving a dial on my camera is just as tedious as what you've depicted here.


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## Bitter Jeweler

Rotanimod said:


> If you want to shoot HDR with Canon you need some serious coin,


Humph...I haven't had any problem shooting for HDR, from my Canon XSi, to my 5Dmkii. *shrug*Multi shot bracketing would be nice, but I don't find it a necessity. Nor crippling with it absent.


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## Compaq

Ideally, I'd like to be able to the AEB on my 40D to do the following: take as many shots as I want of the scene with X stops in between each frame. Whether I need 3 shots to cover the dynamic range, 5 or 11, I could tell the camera to do it.

But, then you move to another scene, with another dynamic range and you must dive into the menus to change the AEB settings.

Dude, use the manual setting and just turn the wheel. Don't cry about your camera. Sure, AEB might come in handy one day, but in all seriousness, manually setting the exposures takes no time at all. I do the following:

- compose
- focus
- check the range (how many stops)
- start on the underexposed shots
- move the wheel three clicks (shutter speed changes in 1/3rd increments)
- take the next shot
- continue until I'm done

Turning that wheel takes less than a second. The cameras aren't crippled, you're just dependent on auto settings and won't bother do it yourself.

My own opinion.


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## 480sparky

Rotanimod said:


> I am still not convinced you even understand what this thread is about. Or have even read the thread. Or that you even know what AEB is. And if you do, you're very bad at drawing connections or explaining yourself. I have provided a plethora of concerns here and have been incredibly specific about exactly what my concerns are, and I see no reason to repeat myself. So if you want to be vague and Troll-ish, go somewhere else.



What is so vague about "Use Manual Exposure Mode to take as many frames as your memory card will allow" do you not understand?

You don't need to throw a hissy fit and call others names just for lack of understanding.


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## Majeed Badizadegan

Compaq said:


> Ideally, I'd like to be able to the AEB on my 40D to do the following: take as many shots as I want of the scene with X stops in between each frame. Whether I need 3 shots to cover the dynamic range, 5 or 11, I could tell the camera to do it.But, then you move to another scene, with another dynamic range and you must dive into the menus to change the AEB settings.Dude, use the manual setting and just turn the wheel. Don't cry about your camera. Sure, AEB might come in handy one day, but in all seriousness, manually setting the exposures takes no time at all. I do the following:- compose- focus- check the range (how many stops)- start on the underexposed shots- move the wheel three clicks (shutter speed changes in 1/3rd increments)- take the next shot- continue until I'm doneTurning that wheel takes less than a second. The cameras aren't crippled, you're just dependent on auto settings and won't bother do it yourself.My own opinion.


 Although it is your opinion, I've spent plenty of time in the OP explaining why "turning the wheel" and "it only takes a second" are not acceptable to me. If you need clarification, read the op. I see no need to repeat myself. Your opinion does not even acknowledge what I've already addressed so although you are welcome to your opinion, it has little value to me. 





480sparky said:


> Rotanimod said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am still not convinced you even understand what this thread is about. Or have even read the thread. Or that you even know what AEB is. And if you do, you're very bad at drawing connections or explaining yourself. I have provided a plethora of concerns here and have been incredibly specific about exactly what my concerns are, and I see no reason to repeat myself. So if you want to be vague and Troll-ish, go somewhere else.
> 
> 
> 
> What is so vague about "Use Manual Exposure Mode to take as many frames as your memory card will allow" do you not understand?You don't need to throw a hissy fit and call others names just for lack of understanding.
Click to expand...

.


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## Bynx

Doing AEB is the same as doing the whole shoot manually. Its only faster -- and if there are fast moving clouds etc fast is key. My Nikon has an AEB with 3 shots. But using the 2 User Modes it can be programmed to shoot up to 9 shots but that takes pressing the shutter 3 times and moving the selector dial 3 times. I think since HDR is so popular that excluding it is not doing their product any service. Its going to turn people away to cameras that are more capable of doing HDR. Almost any camera can do HDR manually as long as you have shutter control and Aperture priority. Its ok for working indoors or for static settings. For movement in the image its just too slow.


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## 480sparky

I think AEB is more designed to bracket the exposures to the user is more likely to capture ONE frame that has the 'correct' exposure, not to cater to the HDR crowd.  In tricky lighting situations where the subject is far darker or lighter than the background is the purpose of AEB.

If this is incorrect, then I see no reason why the AEB function on my D7k can also be programmed to bracket flash output, Active D-Lighting or white balance.


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## Majeed Badizadegan

Bynx said:


> Doing AEB is the same as doing the whole shoot manually. Its only faster -- and if there are fast moving clouds etc fast is key. My Nikon has an AEB with 3 shots. But using the 2 User Modes it can be programmed to shoot up to 9 shots but that takes pressing the shutter 3 times and moving the selector dial 3 times. I think since HDR is so popular that excluding it is not doing their product any service. Its going to turn people away to cameras that are more capable of doing HDR. Almost any camera can do HDR manually as long as you have shutter control and Aperture priority. Its ok for working indoors or for static settings. For movement in the image its just too slow.



Agreed. 



480sparky said:


> I think AEB is more designed to bracket the exposures to the user is more likely to capture ONE frame that has the 'correct' exposure, not to cater to the HDR crowd.  In tricky lighting situations where the subject is far darker or lighter than the background is the purpose of AEB.
> 
> If this is incorrect, then I see no reason why the AEB function on my D7k can also be programmed to bracket flash output, Active D-Lighting or white balance.



Your information is incorrect and based on opinion and a lack of knowledge about HDR photography in general. Those other features are irrelevant to the topic at hand. This thread is specifically about exposure bracketing. Your D7K is not capable of more than 3 AEB. I know this because I've seriously considered the D7000, and for all its other great qualities and features, it does not bracket more than 3 exposures.

I understand you may want to force your opinion on people, and provide misinformation to sound smart, but I'd rather hear feedback from someone who knows something about HDR.

Again, I don't feel it necessary to repeat myself. If you can't accept my view on the matter, then I happily refer you to the video in my original post which will handily disprove all your misfound opinions.


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## 480sparky

Rotanimod said:


> Your information is incorrect and based on opinion and a lack of knowledge about HDR photography in general. Those other features are irrelevant to the topic at hand. This thread is specifically about exposure bracketing. Your D7K is not capable of more than 3 AEB. I know this because I've seriously considered the D7000, and for all its other great qualities and features, it does not bracket more than 3 exposures.
> 
> I understand you may want to force your opinion on people, and provide misinformation to sound smart, but I'd rather hear feedback from someone who knows something about HDR.
> 
> Again, I don't feel it necessary to repeat myself. If you can't accept my view on the matter, then I happily refer you to the video in my original post which will handily disprove all your misfound opinions.



This is only your opinion, so I will readily and summarily dismiss it as you know absolutely nothing about anything.

I'm sorry you have such deep issues regarding the matter.  Perhaps professional help may be needed.  If you don't want to read what I have to say, there's remedies available to you.  But perhaps you can open your mind and listen to what others have to say instead of pretending you're such a freaking expert on everything.

But maybe the D7k doesn't need more than 3 EVs for AEB _because a competent photographer SHOULD be able to get close enough to a CORRECT exposure that there's no need for more than 3 frames_.

So I will repeat myself, the 3-frame AEB is not designed to accommodate HDR enthusiasts.

As for you, I feel sorry for you.  I truly do.

That said, I am done with the matter.

Fare thee well.


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## manaheim

Holy crap this thread is Troll's gold.

Hey OP... your attitude is pretty much absolute sh1t.

You have a pretty interesting point which did bring up a nice idea from someone else, which I agree with... which is that it would be nice to be able to configure AEB to do exactly what you want... that way photographers could set it to their general preferences... possibly even have multiple preferences. Without that, however, I find that most photographers with any amount of experience do not find AEB very useful. I, for one, have never used it... for HDRs or anything.

Unfortunately, however, because of your posture, you're just coming off like an arse.

Can AEB be used for HDR? Sure. Is it the explicit purpose for it? I think that's a little hard for any one of us to say. I did some research on it years back because, honestly, it always seemed exceptionally lazy to me to use it for anything... and most things I found referenced it as "something you use when you're not sure of your exposure". Some people were using it for HDR, sure... but it seemed like that wasn't the common consensus about it's purpose. If you assert otherwise, I'd challenge you to cite your source. If you can't, then I call blowhard.

All I really see from you is someone who wants to thump their chest in a crowd and make themselves look big by calling the big bad Camera manufacturer stupid for daring to dis your brilliance as an HDR photographer ... by not giving you an automated tool to do your work for you?  And you defend your point further by suggesting that your brilliance cannot afford the obvious solution to your perfection requirements, which is a $100 some odd dollar cable that allows you to control those settings without touching the camera? Seriously? Dude. Back up the truck. If you rock the party so badly that you need such precision, you better man up and buy you a cable. Otherwise, I think it's time for you to pack up your toys and go home.

I can tell you for a fact that I've been around the block with cameras and HDRs at this point, and I have not seen one iota of quality issues from touching my camera... and I'm a guy who does a shutter lock-up when he takes a night exposure.  Maybe your HDRs are better than mine, but you know what... I doubt it.

If all you're looking for is to make your ridiculous little stump speech and shout at the rain, by all means feel free to do so. However, I suggest you back the frick off of people who dare to offer you an opposing viewpoint, because from where I sit, they know a frack-ton more than you do.

:thumbdown:


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## Bynx

I agree with Sparky when he says 3-frame AEB is not really designed for the HDR enthusiast. 3 shots are ok for a simple flat lighting situation, but if there is a lot of contrast -- very bright and very dark areas, then a lot more than 3 exposures are needed to get a nice looking HDR image. While the D7000 has a simple 3 shot AEB function as I have previously said, the 2 User modes in conjunction with the Auto mode can be programmed to give a 5, 7 or 9 shot series for HDR. There is a post I made somewhere here explaining how to program the D7000 to shoot 9 frame for HDR but its not as efficient as a single click of the shutter to give the 9 shots quickly.


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## SensePhoto

Why cant you just take the 3 exposures then move the bracket over one stop and take another 3 exposures, thats what i do when needed on my canon, not a big deal...


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## mjhoward

Rotanimod said:


> To me, taking only 3 exposures and manually moving a dial on my camera is just as tedious as what you've depicted here.



Doesn't seem any more tedious than pulling the camera out of the bag and taking the lens cap off.  How do you watch TV?  If turning a dial and clicking the shutter is too tedious for you, then perhaps you should look into something other than photography.


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## Bynx

Colldfire said:


> Why cant you just take the 3 exposures then move the bracket over one stop and take another 3 exposures, thats what i do when needed on my canon, not a big deal...



I think the point of having a camera that will take the 5, 7, or 9 shots simultaneously is speed. Ideally you want all 9 shots at once. Not possible, so whats the quickest way then? Playing with knobs and clicking buttons? I dont think so. A single click of the shutter and anything more than that can cause problems.


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## Majeed Badizadegan

Bynx said:


> I agree with Sparky when he says 3-frame AEB is not really designed for the HDR enthusiast. 3 shots are ok for a simple flat lighting situation, but if there is a lot of contrast -- very bright and very dark areas, then a lot more than 3 exposures are needed to get a nice looking HDR image. While the D7000 has a simple 3 shot AEB function as I have previously said, the 2 User modes in conjunction with the Auto mode can be programmed to give a 5, 7 or 9 shot series for HDR. There is a post I made somewhere here explaining how to program the D7000 to shoot 9 frame for HDR but its not as efficient as a single click of the shutter to give the 9 shots quickly.


 

Thank you Bynx. And as I've outlined in detail, I'm not particular fond of anything that isn't a single click AEB for cost of time and camera shake reasons. 



480sparky said:


> This is only your opinion, so I will readily and summarily dismiss it as you know absolutely nothing about anything.
> 
> I'm sorry you have such deep issues regarding the matter.  Perhaps professional help may be needed.  If you don't want to read what I have to say, there's remedies available to you.  But perhaps you can open your mind and listen to what others have to say instead of pretending you're such a freaking expert on everything.
> 
> But maybe the D7k doesn't need more than 3 EVs for AEB _because a competent photographer SHOULD be able to get close enough to a CORRECT exposure that there's no need for more than 3 frames_.
> 
> So I will repeat myself, the 3-frame AEB is not designed to accommodate HDR enthusiasts.
> 
> As for you, I feel sorry for you.  I truly do.
> 
> That said, I am done with the matter.
> 
> Fare thee well.



Fortunately for me my opinion is aligned with professional, high end HDR photographers, while yours is of a frantic troll that obviously has very little knowledge pertaining the topic at hand. 



manaheim said:


> Holy crap this thread is Troll's gold.
> 
> Hey OP... your attitude is pretty much absolute sh1t.
> 
> You have a pretty interesting point which did bring up a nice idea from someone else, which I agree with... which is that it would be nice to be able to configure AEB to do exactly what you want... that way photographers could set it to their general preferences... possibly even have multiple preferences. Without that, however, I find that most photographers with any amount of experience do not find AEB very useful. I, for one, have never used it... for HDRs or anything.



You may find my attitude in this thread less than pleasant and I will attribute this to the fact that there are trolls in the world like Sparky480 who would rather word vomit a bunch of nonsense and irrelevant information/opinions instead of carefully examining the points in the original post and crafting a response that has any pertinence and/or value to the topic. 

In response to your comment about AEB, you can start the video below at around 8:55 and Trey Ratcliff explains a perfect situation where he uses AEB. In fact, you can start the video anywhere, because the whole time he's using AEB. Would you say Trey Ratcliff is a photographer with "any amount of experience"? Or do you personally find more success with your photography? Let me add your Google+ account with 100,000+ followers. Or link me to where I can purchase your prints for $700 a piece. Thanks.  







manaheim said:


> Unfortunately, however, because of your posture, you're just coming off like an arse.



Perhaps it's because I have low tolerance for fools?


manaheim said:


> Can AEB be used for HDR? Sure. Is it the explicit purpose for it? I think that's a little hard for any one of us to say. I did some research on it years back because, honestly, it always seemed exceptionally lazy to me to use it for anything... and most things I found referenced it as "something you use when you're not sure of your exposure". Some people were using it for HDR, sure... but it seemed like that wasn't the common consensus about it's purpose. If you assert otherwise, I'd challenge you to cite your source. If you can't, then I call blowhard.


I'm so glad "a few years back" you did "some research" on this topic. That really helps your credibility here. Since you are too lazy to do a simple Google search and find out that I'm not the only one who takes issue with Canon's artificial hampering of this feature, I've done some for you
Will Future Canon's offer more than 3 AEB??
Along with other articles I've already provided (and I'm not going to repeat myself) this should be plenty to "cite my source". This is a common gripe for those who are serious about HDR and shoot Canon. 


manaheim said:


> All I really see from you is someone who wants to thump their chest in a crowd and make themselves look big by calling the big bad Camera manufacturer stupid for daring to dis your brilliance as an HDR photographer ... by not giving you an automated tool to do your work for you?  And you defend your point further by suggesting that your brilliance cannot afford the obvious solution to your perfection requirements, which is a $100 some odd dollar cable that allows you to control those settings without touching the camera? Seriously? Dude. Back up the truck. If you rock the party so badly that you need such precision, you better man up and buy you a cable. Otherwise, I think it's time for you to pack up your toys and go home.



Apparently you are perfectly fine with Camera manufacturers artificially choking features; to the point where it doesn't even make sense from a direct competitive standpoint. 
Auto Exposure Bracketing by camera model I'm not interested in dumping 5k on a 1D body because Canon can't pony up and include a simple feature in their mid-high to high end bodies. 



manaheim said:


> I can tell you for a fact that I've been around the block with cameras and HDRs at this point, and I have not seen one iota of quality issues from touching my camera... and I'm a guy who does a shutter lock-up when he takes a night exposure. Maybe your HDRs are better than mine, but you know what... I doubt it.



I sincerely doubt that you've been "around the block" with cameras and HDRs. You've maybe driven by the block once, but you lack fundamental knowledge and understanding of the main concepts of HDR. I think you give yourself too much credit. And I surely am not going to get in a pissing match with you because you've already wasted enough of my time. 



manaheim said:


> If all you're looking for is to make your ridiculous little stump speech and shout at the rain, by all means feel free to do so. However, I suggest you back the frick off of people who dare to offer you an opposing viewpoint, because from where I sit, they know a frack-ton more than you do.



If people are too lazy and incoherent to form a reasonable response that reflects any competence beyond some inflated and misfound opinion, then of course I'm going to set them straight. 
Here's an opposing viewpoint for you:
*Your name on thephotoforum.com is not manaheim. * See, I don't have to substantiate my claim. I don't have to cite my source. I am just expressing an opinion and you need to back frick off of me. It's perfectly fine that I obviously don't know what the hell I'm talking about. My opinion should not be disputed, because all opinions are gold and have equal merit and the world is rainbows and butterflies.  

Funny that you mention viewpoints. From my viewpoint, you have not the slightest clue "what the frack" YOU are talking about. 



manaheim said:


> :thumbdown:



:thumbup:


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## Majeed Badizadegan

mjhoward said:


> Rotanimod said:
> 
> 
> 
> To me, taking only 3 exposures and manually moving a dial on my camera is just as tedious as what you've depicted here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't seem any more tedious than pulling the camera out of the bag and taking the lens cap off.  How do you watch TV?  If turning a dial and clicking the shutter is too tedious for you, then perhaps you should look into something other than photography.
Click to expand...

 


Colldfire said:


> Why cant you just take the 3 exposures then move the bracket over one stop and take another 3 exposures, thats what i do when needed on my canon, not a big deal...



I've already explained my reasoning, cited other sources that further flush this reasoning, and I don't feel like repeating myself because you cannot read.


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## mjhoward

Rotanimod said:


> I've already explained my reasoning, cited other sources that further flush this reasoning, and I don't feel like repeating myself because you cannot read.



I can read just fine.  I also don't need 'cited sources' for reasoning as I rely on experience.  In my experience, 99% of the scenes I want to capture an HDR of, I'm easily able to get 9 trouble-free exposures by clicking the shutter 3 times for three different 3AEB sequences, it really takes less than a second for the 2 extra dial turns and shutter clicks.  The camera shake isn't there either, a solid tripod and/or a $10 remote remedies that.  For the remaining 1%, the scene is moving fast enough to have differences between frames or blur from shutter speeds that are too slow for stopping that motion anyway.

Good luck here on TPF with that attitude.  :thumbup:


----------



## Arch

Well this has turned out messy.

OP im afraid you are being a little too defensive and now won't listen to anyone.
408Sparky's comment.... 'I think AEB is more designed to bracket the exposures to the user is more likely to capture ONE frame that has the 'correct' exposure, not to cater to the HDR crowd. In tricky lighting situations where the subject is far darker or lighter than the background is the purpose of AEB.'... is completely correct, but you seem to dismiss it.

This is how it is.. HDR is not that important to a professional photographer, some see it as simply a passing fad. The purpose of bracketing is to help you capture the correct exposure, not to sit in a field and be able to create HDR's (which remember is also a new and largely gimmiky idea since even the purpose of 'traditional' HDR is being able to create an exposure of a very difficult light situtation i.e. the inside of a church, not of a windy field), so from Canon's point of view this is a very low priority.

I have personally never used bracketing for a HDR image anyway, a careful turn of the dial and a remote release has always been adequate, but then i have also only used HDR for difficult light situations which haven't often been outdoors, so movement is virtually non exsistant.

Canon haven't missed a trick here, they are just not catering for a very small minority of people that want to play around with this technique and are reluctant to use manual settings. I suppose if they did extend the amount of bracketed exposures it would be a nice touch to add to thier range but the majority of users won't notice it.


----------



## Majeed Badizadegan

Arch said:


> Well this has turned out messy.
> 
> OP im afraid you are being a little too defensive and now won't listen to anyone.
> 408Sparky's comment.... 'I think AEB is more designed to bracket the exposures to the user is more likely to capture ONE frame that has the 'correct' exposure, not to cater to the HDR crowd. In tricky lighting situations where the subject is far darker or lighter than the background is the purpose of AEB.'... is completely correct, but you seem to dismiss it.
> 
> This is how it is.. HDR is not that important to a professional photographer, some see it as simply a passing fad. The purpose of bracketing is to help you capture the correct exposure, not to sit in a field and be able to create HDR's (which remember is also a new and largely gimmiky idea since even the purpose of 'traditional' HDR is being able to create an exposure of a very difficult light situtation i.e. the inside of a church, not of a windy field), so from Canon's point of view this is a very low priority.
> 
> I have personally never used bracketing for a HDR image anyway, a careful turn of the dial and a remote release has always been adequate, but then i have also only used HDR for difficult light situations which haven't often been outdoors, so movement is virtually non exsistant.
> 
> Canon haven't missed a trick here, they are just not catering for a very small minority of people that want to play around with this technique and are reluctant to use manual settings. I suppose if they did extend the amount of bracketed exposures it would be a nice touch to add to thier range but the majority of users won't notice it.



First, thank you for breathing a bit of fresh air into the thread. I am reasonable if I'm dealing with reasonable people.   

I think it honestly comes down to how much value a person places into HDR technique of photography. As I mentioned, HDR processing can easily be overcooked and look unrealistic. But being able to collect much more light information at a scene with a particularly challenging light situation will always result in a better image (if processed correctly). 

To me, HDR brings photography closer to what the human eye is capable of sorting and seeing. We take for granted that looking down a long, dark hallway we can easily sort the dark room we stand in, the light within the hall, and the light at the end of the hall. We don't realize that looking down over a breath-taking vista our eyes can account for the sky, the depth of field, the color, and the highlights and shadows in harmony. Camera sensors simply have limitations and that's where HDR bridges the gap and allows images to come to life. 

To remark on your comment about the importance of HDR to professional photographers, I would be reluctant to make a sweeping statement such as you have that it is not important to them. I would direct you to Trey's video, specifically start watching at 8:55. Do you honestly think the final image he achieved could have come from 3 exposures or less? I highly doubt it. Moreover, he utilizes HDR in the majority of his images and he has a massive following. It is a discredit to his work and style to say that HDR bracketing is about getting "one" correct exposure out of an AEB. Programs like Photomatix Pro and Adobe CS5 HDR PRO (best used in unison) bring all the exposures together and pull shadows and highlights into one composite image.    

Personally, I do not believe HDR to be a passing fad because it is a technique that is highly relevant in many light situations. 

Canon's misstep is ignoring the rising popularity of such features, while Nikon has an abundance of cameras from their mid-range to flagship that have the AEB 2-9 built-in capabilities. Canon only offers this feature on their expensive flagship models. 

Thanks for your comment and though I disagree with some of the things you say, I believe you gave a fair consideration to the points I was trying to make and that's all I was hoping for in the first place. 

Oh and P.S. I have nothing against a remote, but I don't want to be turning my dial during an exposure stack due to time and camera shake considerations


----------



## Cheex

mjhoward said:


> Rotanimod said:
> 
> 
> 
> To me, taking only 3 exposures and manually moving a dial on my camera is just as tedious as what you've depicted here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't seem any more tedious than pulling the camera out of the bag and taking the lens cap off.  How do you watch TV?  If turning a dial and clicking the shutter is too tedious for you, then perhaps you should look into something other than photography.
Click to expand...


Absolutely ridiculous.  Let's use your example of a TV:

The OP Is fine with turning his TV on, but instead of using the arrow button to scroll through the pages on the guide he wants a page button. MAKES SENSE TO ME.  Just because you might not use the guide, don't dismiss the fact that some people recognize the convenience of such a feature.


----------



## Arch

Well, i think you're right when you say it comes down to your personal taste and view of HDR photography, imo i don't really like the resulting image he takes at 8.55, for me photography has always been about capturing light... the differences between light and dark, the contrast if you like, when viewing an image and the way the light falls, is what makes an image. I find his example here way too much of the same tonal range which reduces the drama of the image considerably.

He seems good at what he does tho, im not knocking it, its just the first thing i noticed when watching this video is that he is not using any filters on his lens. This is the reason i knew he would be shooting multipul exposures, if you have a bare lens in a contrasty scene you have little other choice.

I would personally give my right arm to be in his location but with a series of ND and ND Grad filters.


----------



## Cheex

OP, amen.


I fully agree with you and enjoyed your post.  If Mark iii doesn't include AEB up to at least 9 shots I'm going Nikon and never looking back.  I got to play with a d700 the other day and absolutely loved it...  It made me regret every penny I've put into my canon lenses.  No more spinning the dial, no more deleting extra exposures when I get back for PP and most importantly, no more missing the shot.


I've spent a lot of time researching and learning HDR.  It's the whole reason I'm still into photography.  I go out and expect to capture what I see with my $1000 camera...  I remember coming home from my first trip with my SLR and being extremely disappointed because the pictures looked nothing like what I had seen.  The truth is that in many scenarios, cameras are unable to capture the scene as seen.  HDR has been the perfect tool to overcome the fact that cameras do not work like the human eye.  [attempting to bash me about not understanding the exposure triangle here would be to miss the point that cameras do not work like the human eye.]


The people who have mentioned that the purpose of bracketing is to help capture the correct exposure are correct but also very stuck.  Tools like EB can evolve and take on new functionality.  To deny the user the ability to take advantage of these tools is a crippling blow to not only our creative desires but also to the development of the field as a whole...


I don't want to defend or sell HDR photography any more than I have to any of the darkroom heroes here lurking the boards.  The most important fact I want to bring to the table is that HDR photography is enjoyable to me, the op and thousands of other enthusiasts.  I mean it.  I really enjoy HDR photography!  I just want Canon to help facilitate my enjoyment by allowing me to access features other similar products offer.  Canon can go on and think it is "simply a passing fad" or "a low priority" but for many of us it will only mean then they will lose business.


----------



## manaheim

[edit]

Ugh... I really can't believe this but somehow you got under my skin and so I have to reply to this where I really should just laugh and move on. 

I was trying _not_ to credential myself, but fine... I've been a photographer for about 10 years, about 8 years professionally.  I use and sell HDRs as part of my portfolio... both professionally and artistically, though it is not something I do frequently because it is not necessary in most circumstances for what either I or my customers need.

I have rather pointedly researched this AEB thing, much like everything in photography I have learned.  That is through speaking with quite a few professionals, and even speaking with a couple photography professors.  Oh and yes, I googled.  However, I consider google to be a little less authoritative than seasoned professionals, since the internet is full of all kinds of people doing some fairly crazy things.

Oh... and I also researched it in my own camera manuals.



> Bracketing
> The D100 offers three types of bracketing: exposure bracketing, flash bracketing,
> and white balance bracketing. In exposure bracketing, the camera
> varies exposure compensation with each shot, while in the case of flash bracketing,flash exposure compensation (flash level; 102) is varied with each shot. In both cases, only one photograph is produced each time the shutterrelease button is pressed. Several shots (from two to three) are therefore required to complete the bracketing sequence. Exposure compensation and flash bracketing are recommended in situations in which you find it difficult to set exposure and yet do not have time to check the results and adjust settings with each shot.
> In white balance bracketing, the camera creates multiple images each time the shutter is released, each with a different white balance adjustment (50). Only one shot is required to complete the bracketing sequence. White balance bracketing is recommended when shooting under mixed lighting or when you want to experiment with different white balance settings. White balance bracketing is not available at image qualities of NEF (Raw) or Comp. NEF (Raw).



The D300 manual said the same thing, as did the D3 manual.  I suppose Canon might say something different, but I'm not going to go download it.

*AEB was not intended for HDR. *  It was created to allow you to take a few shots quickly to ensure you had the right exposure of the scene in question.  It's a CYA feature.

Can it be used for HDR?  Sure.  However, the really good photographers I know poo-poo it because it takes control out of their hands, and generally I find that better photographers used automated features less.  I poo-poo it for the same reason.  It just doesn't buy me anything, and in some cases it doesn't work as well as if I do it by hand.

Think of it this way... you can use a screwdriver to bang in a nail, but that doesn't mean it was intended for that purpose.  Or more appropriately, in this case... you can use a ROCK to bang in a nail... 

Do you have cause to be displeased at Canon for limiting something you use?  I suppose so.   I can't outright say you're wrong, because hey... maybe that rock you are using is very effective, or fits your hand a bit better than a hammer... and hey... Van Gogh was considered a hack in his time.  Maybe you're the next one.  Who knows.  However, your position that they are gimping serious HDR photographers everywhere is an opinion like everyone else's, and as an experienced photographer I can tell you that your opinion is not widely shared with folks who I have found to be successful in this space.


----------



## 480sparky

Well, as we can all see, Rotinamod is the Supreme Photographer in the entire universe, and the rest of us are just mindless dopeheads who can't keep up with his superior intellect.

Please don't tell him the sky is blue..... he'll dismiss the suggestion and the rantings of a lunatic who doesn't have the sense to tip your head back and open your eyes.


----------



## GeorgieGirl

Include me among the faction that thinks Canon ought to include a larger bracketing range in their next edition; its quite a convenience feature. I happen to like power windows and power seats in my vehicles. Will the car run without those features and get me where I want to go, of course. Does it make me a better driver if I have or don't have them? Of course not. 

Is it need to have. No
Is it nice to have. Yes.

This much ire over a desire for a simple convenience feature on a camera??? I mean really...


----------



## SlickSalmon

GeorgieGirl said:


> Include me among the faction that thinks Canon ought to include a larger bracketing range in their next edition; its quite a convenience feature. I happen to like power windows and power seats in my vehicles. Will the car run without those features and get me where I want to go, of course. Does it make me a better driver if I have or don't have them? Of course not.
> 
> Is it need to have. No
> Is it nice to have. Yes.
> 
> This much ire over a desire for a simple convenience feature on a camera??? I mean really...



Bravo!


----------



## Bynx

GeorgieGirl said:


> Include me among the faction that thinks Canon ought to include a larger bracketing range in their next edition; its quite a convenience feature. I happen to like power windows and power seats in my vehicles. Will the car run without those features and get me where I want to go, of course. Does it make me a better driver if I have or don't have them? Of course not.
> 
> Is it need to have. No
> Is it nice to have. Yes.
> 
> This much ire over a desire for a simple convenience feature on a camera??? I mean really...




Isnt this what the whole thread is about? Ditto the Bravo.


----------



## Compaq

Clever word play, "Dominator".

Keep your opinion, but you've met some people who disagree with you - and some who agrees with you. Sure, it could be nice. But as Manaheim pointed out, a tool that fits your hand nicely, perhaps won't fit everyone else's. 

Seriously, dude, what's up with the attitude?


----------



## Majeed Badizadegan

I mentioned the Nikon D7000 in my OP, that it was a shame that it only does 3 AEB. Hell, if it met my needs I would already own it, for all it's other great features. 3 AEB sadly was a deal-killer for me. I found this article highly relevant to the topic at hand, and for those in doubt, another professional insistent on the merit and utility of AEB: High Dynamic Range Imaging » Blog Archive » Nikon D7000 HDR


----------



## Bynx

This is another method to do HDR shooting with the D7000...

As D7000 owners know, bracketing is limited to three frames. Three frames spaced 2EV apart is probably adequate for most scenes, but sometimes you need more. I would like to share my method of shooting 5- and 9-frame brackets. This method makes use of User modes U1 and U2.&#8232;&#8232; After the initial setup (explained below), WHICH YOU ONLY DO ONCE, shooting an HDR is simple. You only need to make three quick adjustments to your camera before shooting:
(1) set the Mode to A
(2) set the Release mode to CH
(3) set Bracketing to 3F in 1.0 EV increments.&#8232;&#8232;

To set up U1 and U2 for a 9-frame bracket spaced 1 EV apart (YOU ONLY DO THIS ONCE):
&#8232;&#8232;* Set mode dial to A (Aperture priority)&#8232;
* Set Shutter release mode = CH (continuous high speed)
&#8232;* Custom setting e6 -> Bracketing order = Under, Meter, Over&#8232;
* ISO = Auto&#8232;
* Bracketing = 3F in 1.0 EV increments&#8232;
* turn the Exposure comp dial to -3 EV&#8232;
* Setup Menu -> Save user settings -> U1
&#8232;* turn the Exposure comp dial to +3EV&#8232;
* Setup Menu -> Save user settings -> U2
&#8232;&#8232;You are done setting up U1 and U2. Be sure to set Exposure comp dial back to 0 EV, set bracketing to 0F, and set the Shutter release mode to whatever you normally keep it at.&#8232;&#8232;

Now say you stumble on a scene that calls for HDR. &#8232;
(1) Set the Mode to A
&#8232;(2) set Bracketing to 3F in 1.0 EV increments
&#8232;(3) set the release mode to CH.
&#8232;&#8232;Now press the shutter release button three times:
&#8232;&#8232;(1) once with Mode dial set to U1
&#8232;(2) once with Mode dial set to A
&#8232;(3) once with Mode dial set to U2
&#8232;&#8232;This creates nine exposures in the following order (relative to normal exposure):
&#8232;&#8232;-4EV -3EV -2EV -1EV 0EV +1EV +2EV +3EV +4EV&#8232;&#8232;
After shooting, review the histograms and possibly select a subset of the nine shots, deleting others.&#8232;&#8232;
The procedure is similar for setting up a 5-frame bracket, and is easy to figure out once you understand the 9-frame setup.


----------



## Majeed Badizadegan

Bynx said:


> This is another method to do HDR shooting with the D7000...
> 
> As D7000 owners know, bracketing is limited to three frames. Three frames spaced 2EV apart is probably adequate for most scenes, but sometimes you need more. I would like to share my method of shooting 5- and 9-frame brackets. This method makes use of User modes U1 and U2.&#8232;&#8232; After the initial setup (explained below), WHICH YOU ONLY DO ONCE, shooting an HDR is simple. You only need to make three quick adjustments to your camera before shooting:
> (1) set the Mode to A
> (2) set the Release mode to CH
> (3) set Bracketing to 3F in 1.0 EV increments.&#8232;&#8232;
> 
> To set up U1 and U2 for a 9-frame bracket spaced 1 EV apart (YOU ONLY DO THIS ONCE):
> &#8232;&#8232;* Set mode dial to A (Aperture priority)&#8232;
> * Set Shutter release mode = CH (continuous high speed)
> &#8232;* Custom setting e6 -> Bracketing order = Under, Meter, Over&#8232;
> * ISO = Auto&#8232;* Bracketing = 3F in 1.0 EV increments&#8232;
> * turn the Exposure comp dial to -3 EV&#8232;
> * Setup Menu -> Save user settings -> U1
> &#8232;* turn the Exposure comp dial to +3EV&#8232;
> * Setup Menu -> Save user settings -> U2
> &#8232;&#8232;You are done setting up U1 and U2. Be sure to set Exposure comp dial back to 0 EV, set bracketing to 0F, and set the Shutter release mode to whatever you normally keep it at.&#8232;&#8232;
> 
> Now say you stumble on a scene that calls for HDR. &#8232;
> (1) Set the Mode to A
> &#8232;(2) set Bracketing to 3F in 1.0 EV increments
> &#8232;(3) set the release mode to CH.
> &#8232;&#8232;Now press the shutter release button three times:
> &#8232;&#8232;(1) once with Mode dial set to U1
> &#8232;(2) once with Mode dial set to A
> &#8232;(3) once with Mode dial set to U2
> &#8232;&#8232;This creates nine exposures in the following order (relative to normal exposure):
> &#8232;&#8232;-4EV -3EV -2EV -1EV 0EV +1EV +2EV +3EV +4EV&#8232;&#8232;
> After shooting, review the histograms and possibly select a subset of the nine shots, deleting others.&#8232;&#8232;
> The procedure is similar for setting up a 5-frame bracket, and is easy to figure out once you understand the 9-frame setup.



Thanks for sharing your workaround in detail Bynx. This is bound to help somebody in the future and I'm sure they'll appreciate it. Since you shoot the D7k, you understand the Canon shooter's pain (given that almost all Canon shooters are forced to do something like this with comparable C1, C2, C3 buttons). 

I mean, gosh, the D7000 is a beautiful camera and it's really too bad they cut something like AEB to keep the D300s at least somewhat relevant. 

Although your method is a viable workaround, I'm sure you're fully aware that it is not the same as firing off 5-9 consecutive shots with AEB, using a 2 second timer and only pressing the shutter once. Thus the time lost while messing with dials while shooting fast moving scenes (clouds, etc)  and camera shake issues are more of a possible issue.


----------



## Bynx

Youre absolutely right about the time to turn the dial to the 3 settings and clicking the shutter 3 times. Its about as efficient as doing it all manually. It is quicker, however it wont stop ghosting of any moving objects.


----------



## GeorgieGirl

I appreaciate the work-around and will adapt it to my Canon. Thanks a bunch.


----------



## FlyingScot

manaheim said:


> Think of it this way... you can use a screwdriver to bang in a nail, but that doesn't mean it was intended for that purpose.  Or more appropriately, in this case... you can use a ROCK to bang in a nail...



AH BUT as any professional joiner will tell you you use a hammer to bang in a screw the slot is only for taking it out!!!!

I really can believe the venom being spouted here however one thing does puzzle me since it is so obvious that a Nikon is much better for this sort of photography why piss into the wind about a Canon not being so well specified - if this is your forte change your camera to the one that does what you want better/easier. Going back to the good old days out and about it was a motorised Nikon 35mm with a 250 bulk film back and in the studio it was a Hasselblad with film and Polaroid backs now both would have done the others job but with a bit of hassel and being a professional and a lazy one too one chose the best tool for the job. So while i find this thread interesting i am not convinced that it is not just a rant at Cannon which i find difficult to comprehend as speaking to Canon direct 'could be' much more productive. And if two people do this - then they might think.......but if just a hundred or even a thousand people do this then they might notice and make the changes you want to the firmware in their camera. There you go start *The Canon HDR Movement* and see what/where that gets you - posting here is obviously highly frustrating for you as few seem to get the point you are making OR read your first posts and reply in a sensible manner.


----------



## pen

I got about half way through this thread. Except for only a couple people on here I'm wondering what the average age of the people posting here are. My guess on closing the OP is under 16. 

Grow up people, I'm sure none of you would talk to each other in person this way.

Sent from my iPhone using PhotoForum


----------



## boon4376

Seems like people are so bent on hating on the OP that they have lost sight of the fact that he just wants a canon with more AEB's because he would find it useful...

Then a bunch of haters are like _You know nothing, no one needs that feature, you are a noob, you might as well not even try taking photos anymore._


----------



## Overread

There's a difference between wanting a feature because it will be convenient/help in select situations and being "OMG the camera lacks this feature its unusable/broken/duff/etc"...


----------



## Bynx

If they can set up a camera to automatically shoot Fireworks, Portraits, and various subjects, then having 5, 7 or 9 bracketed shots going off quickly should be no big deal. HDR has been out long enough now with enough interest generated to make it clear its no passing fad. Putting a feature on a new camera that people will really use seems to make sense to me. And Id be looking at a camera that had such a feature more closely than one that doesnt.


----------



## manaheim

Overread said:


> There's a difference between wanting a feature because it will be convenient/help in select situations and being "OMG the camera lacks this feature its unusable/broken/duff/etc"...



^ that.


----------



## 480sparky

boon4376 said:


> .............Then a bunch of haters are like _You know nothing, no one needs that feature, you are a noob, you might as well not even try taking photos anymore._



No, I think the OP pretty much told the rest of us we are like that.


----------



## Bitter Jeweler

^ that.


----------



## Majeed Badizadegan

pen said:


> I got about half way through this thread. Except for only a couple people on here I'm wondering what the average age of the people posting here are. My guess on closing the OP is under 16.
> 
> Grow up people, I'm sure none of you would talk to each other in person this way.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PhotoForum



Your post drips with hypocrisy. 

But aside from that, thanks for your character evaluations. You really have added to the conversation here.

Thank you for enlightening us and allowing us to recognize your elevated status as "someone who is older than 16 who wouldn't talk to someone liek that offline, lolz".


----------



## KmH

pen said:


> Sent from my iPhone using PhotoForum


Very tacky, and as bad as SPAM, IMO. :thumbdown:


----------



## Majeed Badizadegan

boon4376 said:


> Seems like people are so bent on hating on the OP that they have lost sight of the fact that he just wants a canon with more AEB's because he would find it useful...
> 
> Then a bunch of haters are like _You know nothing, no one needs that feature, you are a noob, you might as well not even try taking photos anymore._



More or less, that is  my main aggravation. I'm trying to make a simple point. That Canon should have power windows, and there's no reason it shouldn't. 



Overread said:


> There's a difference between wanting a feature because it will be convenient/help in select situations and being "OMG the camera lacks this feature its unusable/broken/duff/etc"...



For those who shoot like this across many situations, it is a serious consideration. I never said the camera was broken, because Canon makes great cameras. I said that it is artificially crippled for no reason. 



Bynx said:


> If they can set up a camera to automatically shoot Fireworks, Portraits, and various subjects, then having 5, 7 or 9 bracketed shots going off quickly should be no big deal. HDR has been out long enough now with enough interest generated to make it clear its no passing fad. Putting a feature on a new camera that people will really use seems to make sense to me. And Id be looking at a camera that had such a feature more closely than one that doesnt.



Exactly. Imagine how many hundreds of thousands of dollars Canon has lost to those who jumped ship to Nikon or just picked a Nikon over Canon for such a fixable issue. 



manaheim said:


> ^ that.


 


480sparky said:


> boon4376 said:
> 
> 
> 
> .............Then a bunch of haters are like _You know nothing, no one needs that feature, you are a noob, you might as well not even try taking photos anymore._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I think the OP pretty much told the rest of us we are like that.
Click to expand...


I think if we go back to the earliest part of this thread to both of your initial responses it is evident who is trolling, and who is simply griping about the lack of a camera feature. 

Troll on friends.


----------



## 480sparky

Rotanimod said:


> ......... and who is simply griping about the lack of a camera feature. ...........



Let us know if you're going to do more than that.


----------



## Majeed Badizadegan

480sparky said:


> Rotanimod said:
> 
> 
> 
> ......... and who is simply griping about the lack of a camera feature. ...........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let us know if you're going to do more than that.
Click to expand...


Funny that you mention it; I already have. 

I've e-mailed Canon a number of times about this issue to help improve the product not just for me, but for everyone. 

I don't just sit on Internet forums all day to flame people to get my jollies off. So don't let the door hit you on the way out Sparky.


----------



## 480sparky

Rotanimod said:


> ..........I don't just sit on Internet forums all day to flame people to get my jollies off..........



You are correct.  You just flame people.

You.... are just not worth it.


----------



## Majeed Badizadegan

Your first response in this thread:



480sparky said:


> Your camera isn't crippled.  The operator just hasn't discovered the "M".



And  I'm the flamer?

Good for you Sparky. You can add self-delusion and hypocrisy to your resume. 

I rest my case.


----------



## Majeed Badizadegan

FlyingScot said:


> manaheim said:
> 
> 
> 
> Think of it this way... you can use a screwdriver to bang in a nail, but that doesn't mean it was intended for that purpose.  Or more appropriately, in this case... you can use a ROCK to bang in a nail...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AH BUT as any professional joiner will tell you you use a hammer to bang in a screw the slot is only for taking it out!!!!
> 
> I really can believe the venom being spouted here however one thing does puzzle me since it is so obvious that a Nikon is much better for this sort of photography why piss into the wind about a Canon not being so well specified - if this is your forte change your camera to the one that does what you want better/easier. Going back to the good old days out and about it was a motorised Nikon 35mm with a 250 bulk film back and in the studio it was a Hasselblad with film and Polaroid backs now both would have done the others job but with a bit of hassel and being a professional and a lazy one too one chose the best tool for the job. So while i find this thread interesting i am not convinced that it is not just a rant at Cannon which i find difficult to comprehend as speaking to Canon direct 'could be' much more productive. And if two people do this - then they might think.......but if just a hundred or even a thousand people do this then they might notice and make the changes you want to the firmware in their camera. There you go start *The Canon HDR Movement* and see what/where that gets you - posting here is obviously highly frustrating for you as few seem to get the point you are making OR read your first posts and reply in a sensible manner.
Click to expand...


Cheers FlyingScot, you make some valuable points.


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## Arch

I think enough points have been made here now.


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