# How do these catchlights look?



## jwbryson1 (Nov 23, 2012)

I don't need C&C on the shot because I was just trying a trial run on my Santa event next Saturday.  But, I would like some feedback if the catchlights are where they are "supposed" to be.  I also posted a pic of my lighting set up.  You can see that in the second shot I pulled my fill light around towards center.  Is this the "correct" setup for this type of shot?

Thanks for looking!

1.  Setup lights:

http://

 TEB Light Setup Lower by jwbryson1, on Flickr


2.  Fill lights centered in frame:

http://

 TEB Light Setup by jwbryson1, on Flickr


3.  Catchlights:

http://

 TEB Catchlights by jwbryson1, on Flickr


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## Derrel (Nov 23, 2012)

Fill light seems very,very,very strong...both sides of the face seem to be lighted almost equally. The lighting is very low contrast. In fact I would say it's a direct 1:1 ratio, and the "fill"light is actually a second, competing main light. The fill ought to be pulled back, farther away, so that its intensity is less (or, just as easily, cut the fill's power down). Now, I can see that, as a test for a Santa + kid setup, that this type of flat, almost shadowless lighting will make images that are VERY easy to print, and which look sort of "happy and bright"...very plain, very "happy" type of lighting.  If the Santa has eyeglasses, those catchlights ought to be acceptable as glares in his lenses.


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## Mully (Nov 23, 2012)

That would work for those type of shots...it will be open in the shadows and even all over. Watch what you use for a background. Flat even lighting should make it easy to print from.


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## jwbryson1 (Nov 23, 2012)

Derrel said:


> Fill light seems very,very,very strong...both sides of the face seem to be lighted almost equally. The lighting is very low contrast. In fact I would say it's a direct 1:1 ratio, and the "fill"light is actually a second, competing main light. The fill ought to be pulled back, farther away, so that its intensity is less (or, just as easily, cut the fill's power down). Now, I can see that, as a test for a Santa + kid setup, that this type of flat, almost shadowless lighting will make images that are VERY easy to print, and which look sort of "happy and bright"...very plain, very "happy" type of lighting.  If the Santa has eyeglasses, those catchlights ought to be acceptable as glares in his lenses.




Really?  I thought there was a fair amount of shadow on the left 1/2 of her face, but I will take your comments into consideration.  Recall our conversation with Kundalini about moving the fill light to "on axis" the other day?  That's what I was trying to do.  My key was 1/4 power and my fill was 1/16, and it was further away....

Hmmmm...maybe I will go back and get a second trial run...kinda hard without the tree and other Christmas decorations ready to go.


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## jwbryson1 (Nov 23, 2012)

By the way, these are SOOC with zero edits.


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## amolitor (Nov 23, 2012)

I bet that big white double-door right behind the fill is bouncing a pile of stray main onto her face as well. There IS a difference, side-to-side, but it's really subtle. Get a black/dark blanket, and wedge it in to the top of the doors to soak up light, I bet it makes a big difference.

This is why really good studios are immense echoing halls.


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## MLeeK (Nov 23, 2012)

Lower your lights down a bit. 
Flat lighting would work for the event just fine if that's what you want. I'd prefer to see a little less light on your fill light too, but that's because I am only partial to flat light on kids you can't nail down in one place for a second. Santa and the kids will be in one place. 
Make sure you weight those stands down good with kids running all over.


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## jwbryson1 (Nov 23, 2012)

Thanks MLeek.  I can't win.  I had them low but heard the catchlights were too low, so I raised them and thought I had nailed it.  I will try to tone down the fill.

The problem I see now is shooting with a slow enough shutter to get good ambient light but avoiding motion blur with moving kids.  Should I try rear curtain sync?


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## amolitor (Nov 23, 2012)

The catchlights look fine, to me. It's the overall lighting that's too even.


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## MLeeK (Nov 23, 2012)

jwbryson1 said:


> Thanks MLeek.  I can't win.  I had them low but heard the catchlights were too low, so I raised them and thought I had nailed it.  I will try to tone down the fill.
> 
> The problem I see now is shooting with a slow enough shutter to get good ambient light but avoiding motion blur with moving kids.  Should I try rear curtain sync?


Flash stops motion


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## jwbryson1 (Nov 23, 2012)

I understand that, but I need to make sure the ambient doesn't pick up the movement of kids pre-flash.


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## fjrabon (Nov 23, 2012)

amolitor nailed it, I think.  The window blinds + white doors on the left are filling in that side a lot more.  I'd flip the sides of your fill and main, so you're not working against yourself.


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## Robin_Usagani (Nov 23, 2012)

If you really care about how the catchlight look, put one soft box really close to the subject and use a longer lens.  If you are doing a group shot, I wouldnt worry about how the catchlight look, I would worry more about the power and people's shadow on someone else's face or body.


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## jwbryson1 (Nov 23, 2012)

I think that also works better with a powerful direct flash  like from a speedlight vs a softbox flash.  Am I wrong?


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## MLeeK (Nov 23, 2012)

jwbryson1 said:


> I think that also works better with a powerful direct flash  like from a speedlight vs a softbox flash.  Am I wrong?


We're not talking slowed down to a full second or anything here. You have  LOT of room to mess with your shutter speed there.


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## jwbryson1 (Nov 23, 2012)

Agreed.  I am going to try the other suggestions too and close that one blind, plus hang a black muslin backdrop over the white doors.


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## PhotoWhoa (Nov 23, 2012)

Seems fine. I prefer to only have one catchlight seen in my shots. Just my 2 cents.


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## kundalini (Nov 23, 2012)

For the Santa session, this will work.  In fact, to make things easier and likely more receptive, think Fill flash only.  The reason I say this is because I followed my parents on a "portrait assembly line" last year.  They are annual contributors to the local Fire/Rescue Dept and as such, they receive a portrait shoot.  The guys that were doing this are contracted by a company.  It is very much a sit, smile and shoot sort of event.  The photographer did chat a bit to put the customers in a relaxed frame of mind, but it was pretty much an assembly line.  The camera position was fixed, the lighting was fixed, the background was fixed and the distances of camera to subject and subject to background were...... you guessed it, were fixed.  The thing I noticed was they were using a pair of PCB Alien Bee 800's parallel with the camera position and equidistant shooting through umbrellas.  The result was "flat" lighting and expected from the untrained eye..... pleasing, in fact, but slightly boring from someone who wants a bit of dramatic lighting.  Long story short, these guys had a formula that works, much like your Sears portraits.  Nothing wrong with it because most people find it flattering.  Keep that in mind for your Santa shoot.


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## jwbryson1 (Nov 24, 2012)

fjrabon said:


> amolitor nailed it, I think.  The window blinds + white doors on the left are filling in that side a lot more.  I'd flip the sides of your fill and main, so you're not working against yourself.




I think this is exactly correct.  I looked back at a photo we purchased in 2010 from another photographer and found that the placement of the chair was much closer to the wall and the key light was placed on the right side of Santa.  I don't think a fill was used.  

They also shot at around 1/60 and I was hoping to shoot around 1/200, but the ambient will be pretty underexposed at 1/200, so I will need to keep this in mind.


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## Tee (Nov 24, 2012)

I think 2 things to take into consideration are you're going to have varying heights of children and posing on the chair itself. If this is a Santa session, keep in mind you're now adding a second or even third person.  You're dialed in for one.  You're now going to have potential shadow development casting on Santa.  With your current set-up, how about getting an adult to pose as Santa with your daughter on the lap and see what happens with the light?  Regardless, I think what you have now is "safe" and with the stress and amount of families you are photographing, safe might not be a bad thing.  Lastly, avoid slouching into the chair.  Up straight with back arched and towards the front.  Just my $.02

Better "safe" than sorry.  Ba-dum-dum.  Thank you folks, I'll be here all week.  Don't forget to tip your waitstaff.


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## jwbryson1 (Nov 24, 2012)

Tee said:


> I think 2 things to take into consideration are you're going to have varying heights of children and posing on the chair itself. If this is a Santa session, keep in mind you're now adding a second or even third person.  You're dialed in for one.  You're now going to have potential shadow development casting on Santa.  With your current set-up, how about getting an adult to pose as Santa with your daughter on the lap and see what happens with the light?  Regardless, I think what you have now is "safe" and with the stress and amount of families you are photographing, safe might not be a bad thing.  Lastly, avoid slouching into the chair.  Up straight with back arched and towards the front.  Just my $.02
> 
> Better "safe" than sorry.  Ba-dum-dum.  Thank you folks, I'll be here all week.  Don't forget to tip your waitstaff.




At the risk of beating that poor dead horse, you are correct.  I will have Santa with 1 kid, Santa with 2 kids, Santa with families, so I will be all over the place.  I am shooting this for free and there is no obligation to purchase anything, so the silver lining is that if nobody likes my photos then no harm no foul...

I guess.


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## Tee (Nov 24, 2012)

Just checked your EXIF.  What's the distance of camera to subject?  At 10 feet your DoF is only 1.23ft at f/5.  Something to consider.


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## Tee (Nov 24, 2012)

jwbryson1 said:


> At the risk of beating that poor dead horse, you are correct.  I will have Santa with 1 kid, Santa with 2 kids, Santa with families, so I will be all over the place.  I am shooting this for free and there is no obligation to purchase anything, so the silver lining is that if nobody likes my photos then no harm no foul...
> 
> I guess.



I hope you didn't think I was piling on:cheers:.  I'm in your corner, brother.  I'm rooting for you!  I know this means a lot to you.  Just wanted to offer that you have everything dialed in for one person and that since you have time, add another person.


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## fjrabon (Nov 24, 2012)

yeah, for a shoot like this, just go with as even and flat of light as possible, dramatic lighting requires you to have a subject in a very certain way, you're essentially adapting your light to your subject in those cases.  Here, you need more like a generalized sort of lighting that works okay enough for a wide range of scenarios.  

Don't think in terms of fill and main, think in terms of one big flat blanket.  Do two lights, both 4-5 feet back and 3 feet apart, toed in very slightly, but not pointing dead center.  If you try to get dramatic in a situation like this, you're in for a world of hurt as you say 'hold on while I reposition things' over and over.  Believe me, I do these sort of assembly line portrait booth type things very frequently (proms, homecoming, yearbook, etc) and ESPECIALLY with little kids you need to be able to get them up there, pose them, pop it and be done.  You won't really be able to take multiple shots, adjust lighting, adjust poses for the light, etc.  YOu need a 'just works' flat lighting setup to take that worry out of the equation.


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## jwbryson1 (Nov 24, 2012)

Thanks for the feedback.  I'm shooting 48 families over 3 hours which means I have about 3.5 minutes per family.  Pretty quick pace.


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## jwbryson1 (Nov 28, 2012)

Tee said:


> jwbryson1 said:
> 
> 
> > At the risk of beating that poor dead horse, you are correct.  I will have Santa with 1 kid, Santa with 2 kids, Santa with families, so I will be all over the place.  I am shooting this for free and there is no obligation to purchase anything, so the silver lining is that if nobody likes my photos then no harm no foul...
> ...




No problem!  :mrgreen:  I didn't think you were "piling on" in the least.  I have a way of getting myself hyped up because I want to do well and this IS my first paid gig, if you will.  My "best approach" at this point is the following:

1.  Key light right
2.  Fill light left (center)
3.  Black muslin over white doors
4.  Keep inside of 5' or 6' from subjects to avoid shallow DOF
5.  Shoot around 1/60 to get sufficient ambient, and push up ISO if necessary.
6.  Drink heavily...and relax.


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