# A couple pics of the Babysitter for C&C



## NikonNewbie (Nov 24, 2010)

I wanted to try out my lens today...so I took some pics of my babysitter, her mom likes them, but I want to know what kind of PP to do on them. I was pretty happy with them all in all. They were taken in auto of course (still trying to get the hang of the apeteur settings) and with the new (used) 200mm lens, and on a tripod of course.

I know there is lighting issues, the flash only came on 2x, the sun was very bright...sometimes a little too bright and it was windy as hell. Well, I would appreciate your feedback for PP.
1.






2.





3.


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## GooniesNeverSayDie11 (Nov 24, 2010)

Last time I tried "a couple pics of the babysitter" it nearly got me divorced!...:lmao:  

Given your lens choices, these don't look too bad, but I would work on the exposure/lighting. don't be afraid to use a little fill flash.


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## GooniesNeverSayDie11 (Nov 24, 2010)

Also, on a sidenote, I would maybe try to edit the color of her lips a little, or suggest maybe a shade of lip gloss/lipstick. Her lips look like she is frozen or dead to me. I don't mean this to be mean in anyway. I think its just the lighting or her skin tone or something.


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## sobolik (Nov 24, 2010)

Here is what PP you need to do. Select her skin. Sharpen a great deal, Undo and then soften. This exercise should reveal that sharpening a woman's skin is almost never a good idea. She is young and has nice skin. 20 years from now when you take her photo again she will appreciated what you learned about Post Processing skin today.


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## NikonNewbie (Nov 24, 2010)

GooniesNeverSayDie11 said:


> Also, on a sidenote, I would maybe try to edit the color of her lips a little, or suggest maybe a shade of lip gloss/lipstick. Her lips look like she is frozen or dead to me. I don't mean this to be mean in anyway. I think its just the lighting or her skin tone or something.


 

1st of all....LMAO....to the first response!!!!

now...ya...i told her to put some on but she didnt want to, said she never wears it so didnt want to...ya Im gonna look into a side flash besides the camera one! thanks for CC!


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## mrpink (Nov 24, 2010)

NikonNewbie said:


> 3.



Just a quick and somewhat sloppy edit to show you what these other guys are talking about...

In LR3.  Auto Tone, Iris enhance (brushed), Skin soften (brushed), Added lip color (sloppy I know but I was rushing), Added some vignetting to simulate a fill flash look....

result:



DSC_0223-2 by Matt Francosky, on Flickr


edit:  also teeth whitening, unless your teeth are explosively white... you need to do this in post.



p!nK


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## NikonNewbie (Nov 24, 2010)

sobolik said:


> Here is what PP you need to do. Select her skin. Sharpen a great deal, Undo and then soften. This exercise should reveal that sharpening a woman's skin is almost never a good idea. She is young and has nice skin. 20 years from now when you take her photo again she will appreciated what you learned about Post Processing skin today.


 

wait...that was confusing...why would I want to sharpen a great deal and then undo and then soften....to reveal that sharpening a womans skin is almost never a good idea?
I didn't sharpen anything at all...so this is confusing to me...you want me to do those steps and then undo them? Please give it to me in a simplier manner because I feel the 2nd sentence contradicts the directions you gave me.
sorry


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## NikonNewbie (Nov 24, 2010)

mrpink said:


> NikonNewbie said:
> 
> 
> > 3.
> ...


 
Thanks so much for making sense of the previous reply because I was utterly confused...ok I see what you did, I have my book out now in front of me...I was planning on teeth whitening that was the 1st thing I told her I would do...second was the zit on the side of her head...was also gonna try the "make the eyes sparkle" and "advanced skin softening"...about the lighting...what can I do pp to help with that? do I use a filter and change luminosity? or do an overall soften? 
and second...I tried to do some other shots in grayscale, and I'm not at all happy with the way they come out, they seem weird in color, what method of pp for black and white do you think is best? using lightness channel or channel mixers?
how was the poses? did she look natural, did I get that part right?


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## 12sndsgood (Nov 24, 2010)

NikonNewbie said:


> sobolik said:
> 
> 
> > Here is what PP you need to do. Select her skin. Sharpen a great deal, Undo and then soften. This exercise should reveal that sharpening a woman's skin is almost never a good idea. She is young and has nice skin. 20 years from now when you take her photo again she will appreciated what you learned about Post Processing skin today.
> ...


 

i think what sobolik was getting at was that by you sharpening her skintones, and then softening them that you would see with your eyes that you dont want to be sharpening the skin. kind of like a heres what not to do. so you can see the results of sharpening and the results of softening.


if im wrong im sure someone can correct me. and if i dont make any sence sorry ive been at work now for 15 hours now.


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## NikonNewbie (Nov 24, 2010)

12sndsgood said:


> NikonNewbie said:
> 
> 
> > sobolik said:
> ...


 

ok because I didnt touch these photos not one bit before they went up, and I didnt think any skin pp was necessary besides the zit (and I dont think I posted any of the zit...lol) I was thinking he was telling me I shouldn't have sharpened her skin...when I didn't....then I got from Mr. Pink that I should do it and get a glow...
I just want to know about the lighting and other stuff that NEEDS or should be done, right now I'm going thru 2 books, and I have photoshop class in a book that has a CD workbook, so I'd rather not learn a lesson right now that doesn't need to be "learned" yet...kwim?
Im sorry your at work so long...Jeez go the hell home would ya? it's thanksgiving eve...and btw...
*HAPPY THANKSGIVING ALL YOU TURKEYS!!!! *


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## NikonNewbie (Nov 25, 2010)

OK...so I've been up a while messing with this...is this overkill?
I whitened her teeth, *put a sparkle in her eyes* and changed the color of her lips..that was tedious to say the least...I couldnt find the right shade, I kept sampeling from her shirt and that was turning out just wrong...so I went with this because it said to open a picture that has the color you want in photoshop....and I have all my images on the pc downstairs not up here....anyway, so I used a color off a card (if it doesnt look good tell me and Ill give it another go after I get more colorful pics today)
This is the Before





and the after


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## pbelarge (Nov 25, 2010)

GooniesNeverSayDie11 said:


> Last time I tried "a couple pics of the babysitter" it nearly got me divorced!...:lmao:


 

I spit my coffee out when I read this...very funny, soo true. :mrgreen::mrgreen:


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## clanthar (Nov 25, 2010)

Hi,

Happy Thanksgiving.

Before you start looking at things like white teeth and lip gloss you need to correct the fundamental tone/color errors in these photos. The one you just revised is flat and has a blue/red color cast -- gotta fix those problems first.

Here's that photo:






I inset the histogram from your original. It indicates a compressed tonal range that has to be corrected. I made the indicated Levels correction and used a mask to hold the hair highlight in place. Then I removed the color cast and then I whitened her teeth.

Joe


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## NikonNewbie (Nov 25, 2010)

clanthar said:


> Hi,
> 
> Happy Thanksgiving.
> 
> ...


 
Thanx Joe!
Ok I see a huge difference, that's what I was asking...the lighting etc...I see the compressed tonal range..but what did you use to correct it? and at what points did you know to use them? I'm still learning from this book, and unfourtantly it does not explain the histogram just shows me pics of it (so I know where and what it is) and it is in the channel mixing/ contrast section of black of white photos...I'm sure I'll get to it eventually but I have quite a few of these pics in this exact color and would like to change them all. I'm using Photoshop Cs2.
Thanks!


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## redtippmann (Nov 25, 2010)

Oh and a quick fix for 1&2 would be to get a bounce card(could be anything from a white piece of paper to white poster board or white foam core board. I like the foam core the best) and she, or an assistant, could hold the board just out of frame. And that could also result in an over and under beauity light. But would defiantly give a nicer light than on camera flash.

Edit: it also could have lifted some of the shadows in #3 as well.


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## Derrel (Nov 25, 2010)

clanthar said:


> Hi,
> 
> Happy Thanksgiving.
> 
> ...



"removed the color cast"???? Huh???? You've added yellow/green pollution to her blonde hair and her flesh tones look simply dreadful...the original photo looks far better than this re-work. Seriously....you did not "remove a color cast"...but substituted one bad color cast with another even worse-looking,sickly yellow-green color cast...


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## baturn (Nov 25, 2010)

Thank you, Derrel. I thought I was going to have to calibrate my monitor.


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## NikonNewbie (Nov 25, 2010)

Derrel said:


> clanthar said:
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> ...


 
I took that as just trying to show me to lighten it...and don't know why but it looks different at night on my screen...and I see the green more now, earlier I had the sun lighting my room. lol


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## sobolik (Nov 26, 2010)

NikonNewbie said:


> 12sndsgood said:
> 
> 
> > NikonNewbie said:
> ...



On the skin sharpening thing in reference to the original posts " but I want to know what kind of PP to do on them. I was pretty happy with them all in all."

All I intended to do is suggest an exercise that demonstrates the utter importance of not screwing up a woman's skin. I did not say it was bad in the photo. It is hard to screw up a baby sitters baby like skin to begin with. Although some youths have bad skin as well as old people

I would say to always get a woman's skin "right" but that is not the intention. You can't take a wrinkled old lady photo and get it "right" all we can do is not make it worse.

Someone said "get a glow" that is valid as well.   If a woman's skin is not bad she loves you. If we screw it up she gasps in horror or turns away in disappointment at how she looks in the photo and throws it in the garbage.

Again to any beginners out there looking to get better.  Do the skin sharpening exercise to see what to do and not to do in PP with women's skin.

Again:
On the skin sharpening thing in reference to the original posts " but I  want to know what kind of PP to do on them. I was pretty happy with them  all in all."


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## NikonNewbie (Nov 26, 2010)

sobolik said:


> NikonNewbie said:
> 
> 
> > 12sndsgood said:
> ...


 
ok...gotcha.


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## clanthar (Nov 26, 2010)

NikonNewbie said:


> Thanx Joe!
> Ok I see a huge difference, that's what I was asking...the lighting etc...I see the compressed tonal range..but what did you use to correct it? and at what points did you know to use them? I'm still learning from this book, and unfourtantly it does not explain the histogram just shows me pics of it (so I know where and what it is) and it is in the channel mixing/ contrast section of black of white photos...I'm sure I'll get to it eventually but I have quite a few of these pics in this exact color and would like to change them all. I'm using Photoshop Cs2.
> Thanks!



The histogram is your first critical analysis of a photo. It's a graph of the tone distribution in a photo from black to white. Black on the left and white on the right. The graph goes up as the photo contains more of that tone.

The histogram for your photo shows the bulk of the tonal material shifted a little left, but more importantly NOT spread across the entire range. The hot spot in her hair is in the far right corner and then there is very little or nothing in the upper midtone/lower highlight range. If you disregard that hot spot you then conclude that the overall tonal range is compressed.

Correct this using Levels (Image -- Adjustments -- Levels). Pull the highlight slider to the left toward the bulk of the graph. This will unfortunately cause the hot spot in her hair to blow out completely and so when I made this correction I protected that area with a mask. I made the Levels correction using an Adjustment Layer with a mask.

There's a strong blue/red color cast on the photo. Gertag Macbeth identifies average caucasian skin as a Hue value of 19 (sRGB). If you check the skin tones in the original photo you'll get H values in the single digits, as low as 2. I adjusted the color so that her skin tone measured on her left check is 20. If you check the highlight in her hair on the top of her head in your original it measures a hue value above 195 which is blue. In my corrected version that highlight does measure green (120) because it was green. At the same time her hair hanging below the left side of her face in my version measures a hue value in the mid 30s which is orange. The fact is there's a wide range of color variation in her hair in both the original and my version and if you wish that can be adjusted. But as I originally said it's best to begin from a position where you have normalized tone and color. I gave you that starting point.

You asked, "...at what point did you know to use them?" Part of that answer is experience, but it is also possible to make measurements. The histogram is a measurement; you have to learn how to interpret it. Color can be measured. We have know values for important colors, as I noted average caucasin skin tone is hue=19, a sunny blue sky is hue=207, etc.

Joe


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## ADI54 (Dec 10, 2010)

Hello NikonNewbie and all others!

I w'll mostly appreciate your help.
I'm shooting with a Nikon D40 for a year now and I'm totaly lost 
The colors of all of my photos are just too intens, people look too red and the skin tones are all messed up. In sceneries the *color borders are blur and it just seems with massive color stains*. It's truely awful... 

I 've researched the internet for so long but I just can't find the answer. I've realized it has something to do with the Optomize Image settings and I've tried several settings but can't find the answer... it's little to say that using the default settings and shooting with Auto doesn't solve the problem.

I must add that I'm shooting with *RAW* but it's so much work to post-process everything later in photoshop... also when the basic is sooo bad I don't really have good results...

NikonNewbie - What should I do to get the soft and smooth colors you have and your Nikon d40 pics?

You can see some of examples here - DSC_0896_730 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Flicker recudes some of the quality and colors but I think you can see the problem on those photos. And trust me it is much worst on my computer (I've checked it on 3 different computers to verify it's not a problem with my screen settings..).

Thank you very much!


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## Bitter Jeweler (Dec 10, 2010)

The image you linked to is underexposed.


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## GooniesNeverSayDie11 (Dec 10, 2010)

since this thread has been resurrected, I decided to do a quick edit of my own. 




Edit1 by GooniesNeverSayDie11, on Flickr

I adjusted the levels, lightened the skin, added some blur, lightened and sharpened the eyes, colored the lips and adjusted the overall color very slightly. Oh and I did a little selective sharpening.


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## twoboysnmygirl (Dec 10, 2010)

ADI54 said:


> Hello NikonNewbie and all others!
> 
> I w'll mostly appreciate your help.
> I'm shooting with a Nikon D40 for a year now and I'm totaly lost
> ...




Look in your menu under optimize image and see what you have it set to.  I had my D40 on vivid when I first got my camera (ahem...per Ken Rockwell's advice...but I digress...) and my colors were way over saturated like that.  If it's on vivid, try switching it to normal.


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## NikonNewbie (Dec 11, 2010)

What she said ^^^^
I also had mine on Vivid for a long time...switch it to normal.


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## mrpink (Dec 11, 2010)

NikonNewbie said:


> What she said ^^^^
> I also had mine on Vivid for a long time...switch it to normal.



but Ken Rockwell says to ALWAYS use Vivid.... you mean he is wrong? 






p!nK


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## Robin Usagani (Dec 11, 2010)

here is what i did


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## twoboysnmygirl (Dec 11, 2010)

mrpink said:


> NikonNewbie said:
> 
> 
> > What she said ^^^^
> ...


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## NikonNewbie (Dec 11, 2010)

mrpink said:


> NikonNewbie said:
> 
> 
> > What she said ^^^^
> ...


 
you cannot hold that against me forever...for I was new at this and I was reading anything that had to do with my camera 
I didnt know who Ken Rockwell was even...husband printed it out and handed it to me! so blow me.:lmao:
Besides...now I only listen to Scott Kelby and all the knowledgable asshats on here


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## ADI54 (Dec 12, 2010)

probably a novice question - but choosing normal/vivid etc overwrites my customized settings right?

Is Normal better to use than changing the saturation and tone compensation manually?

and which *color mode* do you use (I/II/III)? 

*Bitter Jeweler* - This one is truly underexposed. I think DSC_0895_729 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
or DSC_1158_940 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
shows it better.


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## mrpink (Dec 12, 2010)

ADI54 said:


> probably a novice question - but choosing normal/vivid etc overwrites my customized settings right?
> 
> Is Normal better to use than changing the saturation and tone compensation manually?
> 
> and which *color mode* do you use (I/II/III)?



seems like you and your owners manual need to spend some quality time together....







p!nK


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## ADI54 (Dec 12, 2010)

tnx for the lovely sarcasm* mrpink*, But I did warn it's a novice question.
Anyway, my camera didn't arrive with a manual and  I couldn't find one to download. 
All the information I have on it I've learnt from reviews online and forums. I'll be happy if you could give me a productive advice - such as where to download one.


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## mrpink (Dec 12, 2010)

ADI54 said:


> tnx for the lovely sarcasm* mrpink*, But I did warn it's a novice question.
> Anyway, my camera didn't arrive with a manual and  I couldn't find one to download.
> All the information I have on it I've learnt from reviews online and forums. I'll be happy if you could give me a productive advice - such as where to download one.



it wasn't sarcasm.  Almost all "novice questions" can be answered by the information in the owners manual.

as to the second part of your response, a four second google search yielded :

User's Manual - D40 - Guide to Digital Photography







p!nK


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## NikonNewbie (Dec 12, 2010)

ADI54 said:


> tnx for the lovely sarcasm* mrpink*, But I did warn it's a novice question.
> Anyway, my camera didn't arrive with a manual and I couldn't find one to download.
> All the information I have on it I've learnt from reviews online and forums. I'll be happy if you could give me a productive advice - such as where to download one.


 
My camera was used, so it didnt come with a manual either, you can go the nikon website and download the manual though...so try that 
also...as PINK stated...Ken Rockwell has his own version of the manual that makes it easy to understand, but alas, that is one man's opinion, and I was shooting in vivid per his manual, but it was really making my pics looks weird, so I switched it. You have to have your own ideas of how you want your pics to look, not try Rockwells.

try Nikonusa.com then in the search area type D40 then choose the 1st option that says D40 and once you get to the product on the right hand corner box it says Manual..click on that...you can download it 
or just use trusty old google!


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## mrpink (Dec 12, 2010)

NikonNewbie said:


> Ken Rockwell has his own version of the manual that makes it easy to understand, but alas, that is one man's opinion, and I was shooting in vivid per his manual, but it was really making my pics looks weird, so I switched it. You have to have your own ideas of how you want your pics to look, not try Rockwells.



Ken Rockwells user guide is pretty good for telling what the camera buttons do in plain english.  If you can separate fact from opinion I actually suggest reading it, but only as a supplement to the owners manual.






p!nK


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## Namibia (Dec 12, 2010)

GooniesNeverSayDie11 said:


> Last time I tried "a couple pics of the babysitter" it nearly got me divorced!...:lmao:
> 
> Given your lens choices, these don't look too bad, but I would work on the exposure/lighting. don't be afraid to use a little fill flash.


My sides ache from laughing!! good one!


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