# Is This Normal Pricing?



## TylerF (Jan 30, 2010)

I was recently looking at what others in the area and came across this site. This is in no way shape or form a knock on the photographer, i was just wondering if his prices were normal or not for the product he produces. I want to get into senior portraits and hopefully assist a wedding photog for a while and get into that.

A Rochester, NY wedding photographer.


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## thebeatles (Jan 30, 2010)

That pricing would be ok if his photos weren't so terrible.  I looked at his gallery and did not like what I saw.


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## TylerF (Jan 30, 2010)

thats what i was thinking but i didnt want to offend lol. i personally think i could do a better job after following a wedding photog a few times


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## pcacj (Jan 30, 2010)

I told my daughters that I would give them $5000 cash to elope.....got my fingers crossed


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## TylerF (Jan 30, 2010)

hahah 5000 on top of paying for the wedding?


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## pcacj (Jan 30, 2010)

No, $5000 is the whole kit and kaboodle....Justice of the Peace is the wedding and that is $75 tops.


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## c.cloudwalker (Jan 30, 2010)

First of all I don't think those photos are that bad. Actually, I find them better overall than a lot of things I see here.

Second, the rates don't seem that bad. I don't know what is being charged in your area on the average but it doesn't matter that much. Your reaction seems to be that of someone who has never calculated what it would cost to shoot a wedding. Do it and you'll probably come up with similar rates.

Don't forget anything in your calculations such as: sales taxes, income taxes, self-employed taxes, equipment replacement fund, computers and software, place of business rent, insurances (liability and gear), office supplies, albums, etc, etc, etc.

You want to do weddings on the side, on the cheap, you can but you'll be back here asking how come you don't make any money.

As far as you producing the same quality shots after second shooting a few times, let's see it... Things often look easier than they are.

Btw, I wouldn't hire him for my wedding but it's more a question of style I don't like than quality. So far, I have seen only one person on this site that I would hire.


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## keith foster (Jan 30, 2010)

His prices seem in line to me.   If he stays busy at that price then why lower prices?
I wonder is he really means ALL images processed and re-touched.  That could be a very labor intensive commitment depending on how many he shoots.


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## TylerF (Jan 30, 2010)

i have done a little research into how much it costs to do a shoot. i really only have to worry about taxes. i dont have a place of business per se i dont feel that equipment replacement fund, computers and software, place of business rent, and office supplies applies to me. i was just wondering if that was a decent rate for what he produces because i think i can AT LEAST be on par with him. i didnt see one picture in his gallery i would consider worth $2000. though, there are some nice ones on the first page.

i know there is a lot to wedding photography and that its not easy at all.

id imagine he means all final images re-touched. could be wrong though


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## c.cloudwalker (Jan 30, 2010)

Don't mean to be a pita, just trying to teach you something since I have run a studio and am getting ready to open a new one. Most businesses fail within the first year of operation due to the fact that most owners don't understand business much. You can be a very good photographer and still fail at business. It happens all the time.

And according to your last post, I don't see you lasting very long. Taxes are not the only thing to worry about. Insurance is a major one. Insurance for your gear but mostly, liability. And you need to be covered if something goes horribly wrong on a shoot. What do you think will happen if you shoot 800 photos at a wedding and when you get home there is nothing on your memory cards? You most probably get sued.

No place of business. If you were to tell me to meet you at McDonalds to sign the contract, I wouldn't show up. There are always cheaper ways to do things but you still need to look professional if you want to be seen as such. So yes, you can meet clients in your house (my very first studio was in my home) but it needs to be a halfway decent house and be clean.

Anybody who runs a business has a minimum of office supplies.

Gear replacement fund: well, yes, if you shoot 2 or 3 weddings a year maybe you don't need to worry about it but if you do it full time, 25-30 of them, you need to seriously include it in your cost of doing business.

Again, just trying to teach you something, not put you off doing it. There is very good money to be made with wedding photography but only if you do it right.


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## mom2eight (Jan 30, 2010)

cloudwalker, where can I find your website.  I'd like to have a look at your site.


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## ev1lmagic (Jan 30, 2010)

Honestly i'd say it depends if you want to look at the glass as half empty or half full. I know several wedding photographers that charge no more than 2.5k (in the Los Angeles area) and imo their work is worth much more than that. Then there's also my mom's friend's son who paid 8k, and let me just put it this way, even an amateur with a p&s could have done better.


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## c.cloudwalker (Jan 30, 2010)

mom2eight said:


> cloudwalker, where can I find your website.  I'd like to have a look at your site.



Sorry, I don't have a website. I also mentioned in another thread recently that I'm not sure I will do one for my new studio as I'm not sure there is a need for it in the kind of market I'm going after.


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## mom2eight (Jan 30, 2010)

c.cloudwalker said:


> mom2eight said:
> 
> 
> > cloudwalker, where can I find your website.  I'd like to have a look at your site.
> ...



To bad I was looking forward to seeing your website.  I'll have to look at your statics.


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## c.cloudwalker (Jan 30, 2010)

mom2eight said:


> c.cloudwalker said:
> 
> 
> > mom2eight said:
> ...



I'm sorry but you won't find much. I'm here anonymously because my work of recent years (painting btw, not photo) is not appreciated by some people because of its politics and visuals and has given me enough problems. 

Now that I am in the Bible Belt, I am even more careful    My wife's car was vandalized for sporting Obama stickers...


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## TylerF (Jan 30, 2010)

sorry to hear that. thats lame. if you don't mind me asking, what market audience are you trying to get where a website isnt a good idea? lol not bashing, just wondering


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## VirtualPhotographyStudio (Feb 1, 2010)

Hi Everyone

As a 20 year wedding veteran, his prices are definitely in line for running a business. Before we "retired" from wedding photography, we were well into the 5 figure level with each wedding. 

You also can't judge a photographer by his website. A wedding photographer is so much more than someone who just shows up and shoots. He can end up being the wedding coordinator and the time keeper. His personality has to mesh with everyone there, as he will be connecting with everyone as he moves through the day. 

A good wedding photographer is actually part of the entertainment in some aspects. He (she) keeps things running smoothly, orchestrates when things will take place, and actually helps make the party a complete success. 

Even before we converted to digital, and were shooting with film, we would have guests come up to us telling us how beautiful the photographs were - and they hadn't seen a thing. But they enjoyed how smooth everything ran, how much we kept the party on track and really allowed the bride and groom to enjoy the day by not manipulating their time. 

If you can learn the art form of weddings, you can do VERY well in the industry.


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## c.cloudwalker (Feb 1, 2010)

Commercial. At the risk of sounding like a snob, I would even say high end commercial. One of the client/friend who is investing in my studio represents one of the major tire manufacturers. The other one represents major artists in the music world.

It's not so much that a website isn't a good idea as that I don't see what it would do for me and in the meantime, it's another expense. From my past experience and from talking to different friends recently, buyers in that market don't resort to the yellow pages or surf the web in search of photogs. Word of mouth and networking is how it seems to work mostly.

But, one never knows. I could find out that there is a use for it...


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## Photosformyson (Feb 1, 2010)

While I have been reading and researching how to be successful in this 'business' I have taken a look at local market pricing and the 'cost' of the wedding. I'm a newbie and hate to admit this, but I paid that amount for my wedding photos and they sucked. I didn't get nearly the prints that he is offering, nor did I get a photo cd and rights to them (however it was back in the day when they used film still). So, maybe I'm the only one who wonders how he could afford a 2nd photographer and all those prints for under 4k? And I got married in Flint, MI...


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## jnm (Feb 1, 2010)

for the level of the pics he is displaying in his gallery his prices better be in pesos.


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## pbisfun (Feb 2, 2010)

I am not a wedding photographer by choice, I have shot a few and hated it. Too much stress. First you have to spend time with the couple to find out what there looking for, then you have to find out where you are going to be taking pictures, and if you have not shot there you will need to check the place out, for lighting background and things like that. After you have done your home work the day of the shoot you better be ready because you only get one chance. If the picture did not turn out there no saying can you stop I need to take that picture again. You are either loved by your client or hated. In portrait photography they my buy your picture even if it not the greatest in the world. In wedding photography if they dont love them you may not get paid or you may find your self in court.


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## pbisfun (Feb 2, 2010)

c.cloudwalker said:


> Commercial. At the risk of sounding like a snob, I would even say high end commercial. One of the client/friend who is investing in my studio represents one of the major tire manufacturers. The other one represents major artists in the music world.
> 
> It's not so much that a website isn't a good idea as that I don't see what it would do for me and in the meantime, it's another expense. From my past experience and from talking to different friends recently, buyers in that market don't resort to the yellow pages or surf the web in search of photogs. Word of mouth and networking is how it seems to work mostly.
> 
> But, one never knows. I could find out that there is a use for it...


 
So where can we go to see your work. If you are the great artist you say you are your name would have to be some where on the internet. From your nick name I would say you are a sky diver or mountain climber. Im sure some one has one of your pictures posted I would really like to see your work


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## RowleyPhoto (May 6, 2010)

Well I hate to re-open a dead thread, especially when it is ripping on  my work, but I like you feel I must...  

Since I know everyone has there own opinion I am not about to try to  defend my work to those that don't like it.  The fact that I am still in  business and doing fairly well says quite a bit in this bad year for  many of the wedding photographers in my area.  Since this thread has  started I have not only been able to raise my prices, I am surviving while  others are not.

Having multiple national award winning prints via PPA, and my recent cover on one of the top wedding magazines in our area, I know I'm not all that bad...  As for my pricing, I am a mid-priced photographer in my area and know and shoot with some of the best and some of the worst.  If your bottom package is less than $1k then you are in no way supporting yourself by this business alone, your a Craigslist weekend warrior.  The top in my area start their pricing around $4k so I feel I'm perfectly in-line for now.

Now that you have your victim here, questions anyone???


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## Goontz (May 6, 2010)

Nice.  :thumbup:


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## TylerF (May 6, 2010)

RowleyPhoto said:


> Since I know everyone has there own opinion I am not about to try to  defend my work to those that don't like it...
> 
> ...Having multiple national award winning prints via PPA, and my recent cover on one of the top wedding magazines in our area, I know I'm not all that bad...



seems like you came in to defend your work. this thread is so old and i have since decided to not shoot weddings. it sounds very stressful (for which i give you props) and all i was asking when i started the thread was if the prices you charge are acceptable for what you were producing. that's all.

i am 100% sure you are a better photographer than me. at the time of starting the thread, i was in a different mindset i guess i was arrogant and whatnot. i have changed my view of photography and a lot of other stuff too. i was in no way trying to say you were overcharging and sucked. sorry if it came across that way. maybe one day i will see your work in my area.


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## eric-holmes (May 6, 2010)

RowleyPhoto said:


> Well I hate to re-open a dead thread, especially when it is ripping on  my work, but I like you feel I must...
> 
> Since I know everyone has there own opinion I am not about to try to  defend my work to those that don't like it.  The fact that I am still in  business and doing fairly well says quite a bit in this bad year for  many of the wedding photographers in my area.  Since this thread has  started I have not only been able to raise my prices, I am surviving while  others are not.
> 
> ...



:hail:


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## Nicholas James Photo (May 8, 2010)

Dont defend your work to yet another person who has picked up a DSLR for the first time, has probably taken 1 good image and then thinks he can compete.
Most of the good photographers are leaving this forum for this reason.

For "I'm thinking of becoming a wedding photographer" you should read "I have just bought my first DSLR"

For "these pics are awsome" you should read "They are out of focus but I'm a newbie who just wants to post something and I have no real clue anyway"

For "I think that I can take equally good images for a lot less money" you should read "I'm going to be looking to get my old job back in three months time but in the meantime I will call myself a wedding photographer and starve"

For "I'm thinking of doing some weddings, what lenses should I use" please read "I'm an idiot"

Yes, its all been said on here.

What is really sad is that there are some truely brilliant photogs on here, who we can all learn off but are fed up of all of this and can no longer be bothered to post....... or leave


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## magkelly (May 8, 2010)

Well I don't live in a major city anymore, but I've lived in 2 big metro area on both coasts and I think that his pricing is on the cheap side for wedding packages compared to what I've seen and what the photographers I knew in both places usually charge for those. 3-5K is not unusual here and this is a much smaller town compared to someplace near NY. I'm not qualified to critique his work so I won't go there but as for having a website that's okay by me. Word of mouth is great, but having a portfolio online is sensible if you ask me.


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## TylerF (May 8, 2010)

Nicholas James Photo said:


> Dont defend your work to yet another person who has picked up a DSLR for the first time, has probably taken 1 good image and then thinks he can compete.
> Most of the good photographers are leaving this forum for this reason.
> 
> For "I'm thinking of becoming a wedding photographer" you should read "I have just bought my first DSLR"
> ...



are you saying that i just picked up my first dslr and have only had one good image? i dont get the point of your post?


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## cnutco (May 8, 2010)

Nicholas James Photo said:


> Dont defend your work to yet another person who has picked up a DSLR for the first time, has probably taken 1 good image and then thinks he can compete.
> Most of the good photographers are leaving this forum for this reason.
> 
> For "I'm thinking of becoming a wedding photographer" you should read "I have just bought my first DSLR"
> ...





Wait a minute... aww sh!t, I think I am one of those...  Naaa, I just like capturing nice shots for me.

That was a good one though.  I LIKE it!


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## Nicholas James Photo (May 8, 2010)

TylerF said:


> Nicholas James Photo said:
> 
> 
> > Dont defend your work to yet another person who has picked up a DSLR for the first time, has probably taken 1 good image and then thinks he can compete.
> ...


 
I am not saying thjat you have just picked up your first DSLR, however you did in your post dated 12/26/2009 and I certainly didn't say that you had 1 good image.

The point of the thread is to take part in the debate that you started and refer mainly to post 3 of this thread.

However, my post was directed to the person that you believe that after shadowing a wedding photographer a few times you can do better than

Lets look at why people are moving away from this site, in fact lets take an example of some of your posts.

12/26/2009 *First* pic with my D40 (it's my first DSLR)
12/28/2009 White balance question
12/30/2009 SD-600 noise? (dont know too much how to work it)
12/31/2009* First* night shots
10/07/2010 What to get next
01/13/2010 RAW in photoshop
01/17/2010 Another lens suggestion thread
01/24/2010 *First* shot at product photography
02/01/2010 Lighting Noob, need help
03/26/2010 *First business card draft *
04/05/2010 *First* portrait with a reflector
04/16/2010 *First* shoot with my triggers
04/18/2010 Photography class? (This was a classic)
04/30/2010 *First* shoot with a model

All said and done, I wish you every success but beg you to walk before you run


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## eric-holmes (May 8, 2010)

Wow


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## cnutco (May 8, 2010)

WoW indeed


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## TylerF (May 8, 2010)

Nicholas James Photo said:


> 12/26/2009 *First* pic with my D40 (it's my first DSLR)
> 12/28/2009 White balance question
> 12/30/2009 SD-600 noise? (dont know too much how to work it)
> 12/31/2009* First* night shots
> ...



ok the first 2 were like 5 months ago. and yeah, i have a lot of firsts because i am trying to find my niche. so what? i spent quite a bit of time here before i got my first dslr and also spend a lot of time reading here. the photography class actually was well received and helped me get a better position at work.

and if you have the time to look at my post history, you sir live a very dull life. like i said, this thread was started a longgg time ago and my views on photography as well as life have changed quite a bit. i no longer believe that wedding photography is easy as i once thought it was. not that i thought it was easier, but i did underestimate it. i'm done with this thread, i will not be posting again. so if you do feel the need to say something, don't expect a reply from me.


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## Flash Harry (May 9, 2010)

Yeah 6 months is a long time. My heart bleeds for ya. H


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## RowleyPhoto (May 12, 2010)

When I first saw this I have to say I was a bit upset being the victim and all but now I'm kinda glad he picked me.  Since this thread was started I have moved up 3 pages on Google and had a 243% traffic increase from this thread alone.  I'm sure the link from the magazine company that put my work on the cover helped but hey, one click is as good as another!

So click away!  Rowley Photography


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## Flash Harry (May 12, 2010)

congrats to you on the increased traffic, hope it gets you more work as its hard enough without being slagged off on fora such as this. H


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