# I need help, stuck between two SLRs



## Parptarf

I hate to make a versus thread, but I'm so torn between these two cameras I need someone to talk sense to me.

Ok, let's get down to the brass' tax. Nikon F3 HP or  Leica R4s. I wanna start by saying price is irrelevant in this comparison, I have both of them before me and I'm ready to purchase. 
The F3 will mostly be used with a Nikkor Ai-s 50mm f/2 that I already have. Though I have a 28mm f/2.8 and a 35-70 f/4 for this as well. The R4s will come with a Leitz 50mm f/2 Summicron-R.

I'm gonna use this for street photography and portraits mostly. My D800 furfills my other needs perfectly.


----------



## vintagesnaps

If you have lenses that are compatible with the Nikon I'd consider that since it seems like that would give you more options. I'm not familiar offhand with that model. 

Leica was not as well known for their SLRs of course as they are for their excellent rangefinders. That lens probably wouldn't work with anything else but their R system of SLRs which might be limiting.


----------



## Parptarf

From experience, when shooting film I only use a 50.
I don't think I actually used any of my non-G Nikkon F-mount lenses with my FE the three years I've had it. So all I really need is a 50 for analog. Maybe down the line invest in nice wide angle for ther Leica if I go that road.  I've heard bad stuff about the early Leica R4 cameras, but the R4s came out two years later, so those issues are supposed to be non-present.

And for the record, I have a usable fleet of glass for my D800, so not being able to use the R-mount opicts on it doesn't bother me.


----------



## limr

I'd go Nikon. Ultimately more flexibility with classic workhorse build and lens quality. Leica is a good camera but as Sharon said, I think their rangefinder line is really where their value and quality lie.


----------



## Parptarf

If only the M cameras weren't so expensive. Though, I could probably find an M2 with a Summicron-M for not that much more. But alas, I need a new analog this week.
My FE is beginning to fall apart quite fast. Not only does it leak light so much I have to use a roll of tape everytime I put film in it, it's also in bad shape mechanically. Mainly the rewind mechanism is limping along at best. (Metering and shutter is great though) Down the road I'm gonna fix it, as it's a great camera, but now I just want something more special.

Edit: I take that back, the M2 house might be prized just a tad bit higher than the R3 and R4s, but the M optics is A LOT more expensive.


----------



## Parptarf

Almost forgot something. There's also someone selling a Canon F1 with a 55mm f/1.2. Heard great things about both the camera and lens. The thing is that he hasn't tested it, and it's been laying around for a long time. Would suck to have a leaking camera when I'm down in Berlin, Prague and Budapest doing street photography next week. But it's still an alternative to these too.


----------



## gsgary

The Leica R4 is basically a Minolta but a very nice camera, have you looked at Leica M cameras they are the perfect street camera


----------



## Parptarf

It's built off the Minolta XE if I'm not mistaken. Which is not a bad thing. Being able to use Leica optics adds to that.
Then again, the Nikon FE2 or F3 is probably an even better camera. But it doesn't have "Leica" written on it. (I'm a sucker for brands like this. I've had two Porsches christ sake.)

Deciding between these are absolutely terrible.


----------



## gsgary

Parptarf said:


> It's built off the Minolta XE if I'm not mistaken. Which is not a bad thing. Being able to use Leica optics adds to that.
> Then again, the Nikon FE2 or F3 is probably an even better camera. But it doesn't have "Leica" written on it. (I'm a sucker for brands like this. I've had two Porsches christ sake.)
> 
> Deciding between these are absolutely terrible.


Don't choose between them get an M


----------



## Parptarf

I could get an M2 for a similar price, sure. But Getting a cheap 50 for a Leica M here in Norway before Sunday is impossible. And I need it before then.

Sent from my SM-G850F using Tapatalk


----------



## Derrel

I shot the F3 HP as my main camera for 15 years.The thing I liked the MOST about the HP finder (High Eyepoint) version is that it was/is the absolute best viewfinder ever made for eyeglass wearers...it allows you to see the ENTIRE picture area, extremely easily, due to the extended eyepoint distance, which means that you can see the entire viewfinder area with the eye as far as one inch behind the eyepiece. That alone ALWAYS made the F3 HP my preferred camera over the smaller, lighter, cheaper Nikons of the era, the FM and FE series models (which I also own). The F3 HP offers 100% viewfinder image as well as the extended eyepoint.

For me, the viewfinder of an SLR has always,always, always been one of the top two criteria I use in measuring how much I like the camera. I want to be able to SEE and frame what I am shooting with the highest degree of transparency possible, and that is an area where the F3 HP was the leader.


----------



## Ysarex

Parptarf said:


> But it doesn't have "Leica" written on it. (I'm a sucker for brands like this. I've had two Porsches christ sake.)



Only Porsches? How about a boat? Got a big boat? If not then you need a gold camera -- a gold "Swiss" camera (lizard skin, of course.):







Joe


----------



## Parptarf

Haha, great. 

Anyways, someone just put out a pristine Nikon FM3a for sale here. Guess both the F3, R4S and the FE2 was blown out of the competition now.
In other words, I'm gonna buy that FM3a (Most likely)


----------



## Derrel

Go for a rare, pretty much obsolete, gold-plated and snakeskin-covered or lizard-covered *Alpa*!!!


----------



## Parptarf

I can imagine the looks people would give me if I went for a street photography session with that. Maybe I should get a really bling necklace and perhaps some gold teeth.

In other news, the only issue, and I mean the only issue, I have with the FM3a is that it's from the 200's and not the 70's or 80's. This basically means absolutely nothing though.


----------



## compur

Those gold snakeskin Alpas are real chick magnets.


----------



## Parptarf

So I updated the original post to include the FM3a. As I've disregarded the F3 by this point due to it being too large for what I need.


----------



## gsgary

Parptarf said:


> I could get an M2 for a similar price, sure. But Getting a cheap 50 for a Leica M here in Norway before Sunday is impossible. And I need it before then.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G850F using Tapatalk


Oh my I toured Noway, Sweden and Finland on my motorbike in 2005 and couldn't believe how expensive things were


----------



## Parptarf

It's absolutely terrible. I remember insurance for my old Porsche 968 was so damn high I had to sell it after a year. Sucked as it was the perfect car for me(And still would be) 
Leica stuff is no different, it's even more expensive than it is elswhere.


----------



## gsgary

Derrel said:


> I shot the F3 HP as my main camera for 15 years.The thing I liked the MOST about the HP finder (High Eyepoint) version is that it was/is the absolute best viewfinder ever made for eyeglass wearers...it allows you to see the ENTIRE picture area, extremely easily, due to the extended eyepoint distance, which means that you can see the entire viewfinder area with the eye as far as one inch behind the eyepiece. That alone ALWAYS made the F3 HP my preferred camera over the smaller, lighter, cheaper Nikons of the era, the FM and FE series models (which I also own). The F3 HP offers 100% viewfinder image as well as the extended eyepoint.
> 
> For me, the viewfinder of an SLR has always,always, always been one of the top two criteria I use in measuring how much I like the camera. I want to be able to SEE and frame what I am shooting with the highest degree of transparency possible, and that is an area where the F3 HP was the leader.


That's what so good about a Leica M for street photography you can see outside the frame, so you can see the scene developing


----------



## Parptarf

I've played with an M9 before. Think it had a Summilux 50mm on it. There's where that Leica crush comes from. What a camera!


----------



## Parptarf

Bought the Leica. The FM3a ended up being a no-go.

Got it for a fairly good price too though. And a three month warranty from the camera store.


----------



## gsgary

Parptarf said:


> Bought the Leica. The FM3a ended up being a no-go.
> 
> Got it for a fairly good price too though. And a three month warranty from the camera store.



This is one of my Leica friends he has one of the biggest Leica collections i have ever seen





Look what he is using, crop of above, the one on the left is a R4S other is an R9


----------



## gsgary

My beauties M4P 70 year anniversary used every weekend





and my M4-2


----------



## Parptarf

Beauties for sure! 
Here's mine:






Sent from my SM-G850F using Tapatalk


----------



## gsgary

Parptarf said:


> Beauties for sure!
> Here's mine:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G850F using Tapatalk



Nice i prefer the all black


----------



## gsgary

Now you have one you will want another


----------



## Parptarf

I already want to upgrade that Summicron to a Summilux 

Sent from my SM-G850F using Tapatalk


----------



## gsgary

Parptarf said:


> I already want to upgrade that Summicron to a Summilux
> 
> Sent from my SM-G850F using Tapatalk


When you have a Leica you don't upgrade you buy and keep the other lens, most Leica shooters have lots of different 50mm lenses because each one renders differently


----------



## gsgary

One good thing for you is R lenses are cheaper than M lenses


----------



## Parptarf

True. I love this Summicron already and I haven't even developed any film from this camera. The lens just feels so perfect.

Sent from my SM-G850F using Tapatalk


----------



## Parptarf

Did they make the Old noctilux for the R system? The f/1 version.

Sent from my SM-G850F using Tapatalk


----------



## gsgary

The R Noctilux is F1.2


----------



## Parptarf

Is it the same one as the original 1.2 one for the M but with an R mount?


----------



## gsgary

But it didn't go into production http://rlfc.cocolog-nifty.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/08/04/115994a_2.jpg


----------



## Parptarf

How I would want to get my hands on that impressive piece of glass! 

An M9-P with a new Noctilux is on my wishlist. The way that lens renders images at f/0.95 is incredible

Sent from my SM-G850F using Tapatalk


----------



## gsgary

Parptarf said:


> Is it the same one as the original 1.2 one for the M but with an R mount?


No R and M lenses are not alike


----------



## gsgary

I would like an M8 for B+W or an Epson RD1


----------



## Arkas

I am not sure why some people are against Leica Rs and the Leica R lenses.
In fact, at above 90mm, the Leica R lenses seem to do quite better than their M counterparts (at least the last time I checked).
In this case however, given the choices that you have, I believe the Nikon F3 is the best choice.
Now if you were comparing the R6 and/or 6.2 or above, I'd go for Leica.


----------



## Parptarf

Went for the R4s already, The nikon was too large for the purpose I'm using this SLR for. Tge R4s is smaller than a Nikon FE too actually.  

Sent from my SM-G850F using Tapatalk


----------



## Arkas

Good choice! I have an R3 electronic and I use it quiet often, but I have to admit I use the Nikon F3 just a bit more


----------



## Parptarf

I'd imagine the F3, or the Fm3a would be a "better" camera generally. But I'm really happy about this R4s so far. That Summicron fifty has the smoothest focusing I have ever tried. And the whole setup feels incredibly well built.

Sent from my SM-G850F using Tapatalk


----------



## Arkas

I also have the Summicron R50, and yes, it is an awesome lens!


----------



## Parptarf

Can't wait to develop the photographs from the R4s. My FE with the Ai-s 50 f/2 was a tad dissapointing honestly. The AF-S 50 f/1.4G I use on mt D800 is much much sharper.

That Ai-s lens isn't in the best shape though. But this Summicron looks pristine, and so does the camera.

Sent from my SM-G850F using Tapatalk


----------



## gsgary

Not sure if you have seen this, one of the greatest photogrphers and he uses a Leica R


----------



## PICOBELLA

Parptarf said:


> I hate to make a versus thread, but I'm so torn between these two cameras I need someone to talk sense to me.
> 
> Ok, let's get down to the brass' tax. Nikon F3 HP or  Leica R4s. I wanna start by saying price is irrelevant in this comparison, I have both of them before me and I'm ready to purchase.
> The F3 will mostly be used with a Nikkor Ai-s 50mm f/2 that I already have. Though I have a 28mm f/2.8 and a 35-70 f/4 for this as well. The R4s will come with a Leitz 50mm f/2 Summicron-R.
> 
> I'm gonna use this for street photography and portraits mostly. My D800 furfills my other needs perfectly.


Greetings, since money is not an issue, perhaps the Leica would be your best bet.  I have seen many Leica photos both portraits and street scenes in color and black & white and truly it is among the very best you can buy.  I know many Leica photographers and none of them have ever expressed regret of their purchase decision.  Summicron, well what more can one say, except that dollar for dollar it is your best photo equipment value.


----------



## JohnSw

The F3hp is the best built of the options you alluded to by far.


----------



## photoboy2005

I would go with the Nikon for now. But I would definitely go back for a R eventually! 

-Mobile Matt


----------



## JohnSw

Pico, if you spent that much money on equipment, would you tell someone you regretted it?


----------



## Parptarf

Love the Leica so far. It do kind of suck that I can't afford more lenses for it. And I know I would be 99% had happy with a Nikon F3 or FE2(plus I could use a 28 f2.8 and 14 f2.8 that I have)

But I can't say I regret it. The camera is great.

Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk


----------

