# just simple thoughts



## pocketshaver (May 12, 2019)

a lot of people can make it seem difficult to use an actual film camera. NOT a point and shoot, but an actual camera that lets you play with iso and such.

But looking at reviews of digtal cameras since 2013, there is a lot of bizarre crap going on.

Pocket cameras that take a 30 second video and then let you use any individual frame for a photo, as well as do camera effects like brining things in and out of focus.

Big DSLRs that have menu screens that make you push so many buttons that the menus take more time then taking a photo. Seriously push "outside photo" option then "direct sunlight" then "landscape" then push "building" or "trees"

Ill admit half of anything is pretense but seriously, how is THAT actually beneficial for use


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## JonFZ300 (May 12, 2019)

Stills from video and post focus are two of the things that make digital so amazing in my opinion, and I certainly would not characterize them as "bizarre crap." 

As far as menus go, yeah there are lots of bells and whistles but pretty much any DSLR will allow to save 3 or 4 (or more) custom setups so you don't have to go trudging through the menu every time. Those modes you mentioned just sound silly to me. My camera has some stuff like that on it and I ignore it. They're fun to play around with once or twice just to see what they do but they're pre-programmed which I don't really care about. DSLRs also have programmable buttons where you can assign any function(s) you want to certain buttons on the body for the features you use most often. 

You can always just set it to manual and pick your aperture, shutter speed, and ISO (and maybe white balance) and pretend that's all it does if you want to. 

I used to love film and I will never talk down about it or people who shoot it. I totally get it if that's what you're into, don't get one of you don't want one. You're not going to make many friends bad-mouthing the digital cameras or process. An overwhelming majority of photographers use digital now and you paint yourself into a corner by disrespecting it. 

You could sell your car to pay for your darkroom and go back to horse and buggy.


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## jcdeboever (May 12, 2019)

Digital is way more complicated. Fujifilm's XT series camera are the closest thing to the simplicity of the film cameras. Their menu system is more logical as well. IMO, there are two things that turns me off about digital... complicated systems and the propensity to develop bad habbits from spray and pray photography.


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## Original katomi (May 12, 2019)

It’s true there are a lot more bells and whistles on DSLR but do you have to use them? My film days were Pentax k1000 and a lot of my film skills have translated into my canon 600d use. Yes my canon will barcket shots for me but I find that I will do that anyway. I tend to shoot manually  so really l use few of the extras provided.  Having said that I know that the extras are there as an option if I want them. DSLR has allowed me to push my photography much farther than film would let me


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## pocketshaver (May 12, 2019)

try watching someone work those controls in a store if they have dyslexia. Its not fun. And at the same time my eyes have a habit of making the little red dot turn into three.

changing the settings for each individual photo is an interesting concept, really it is. Useful as well. But doesn't auto exposure do that for us anyway?

unlimited shots is really nice. But the thing is, is there something more reasonably priced that gives the same overall user experience as a canon ftb but SOME of the options of digital


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## Derrel (May 12, 2019)

pocketshaver said:


> a lot of people can make it seem difficult to use an actual film camera. NOT a point and shoot, but an actual camera that lets you play with iso and such.
> 
> But looking at reviews of digtal cameras since 2013, there is a lot of bizarre crap going on.
> 
> ...



your rant... is a fantasy you have formulated in your mind. You are NOT accurately describing reality. Your attitude is a creation of your own prejudices, and does not square with realities. i get it...you idolize film photography, but your little rant can't be let stand without a gentle rebuke... Your "reality" seems to be largely a creation of your own mind, and how you, personally,perceive the modern era.


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## Derrel (May 12, 2019)

_Big DSLRs that have menu screens that make you push so many buttons that the menus take more time then taking a photo. Seriously push "outside photo" option then "direct sunlight" then "landscape" then push "building" or "trees"....
_
*What are you talking about?*


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## Derrel (May 12, 2019)

jcdeboever said:


> Digital is way more complicated.>SNIP



What?Let's look at the complexity of film, and  the simplicity of loading a new roll of film correctly, exposing it, then rewinding the film, and then either developing or paying a lab to develop the film into slides or negatives, getting or making prints, or loading a slide tray and projecting the images vs. the ease of pointing and shooting with a digital camera. You say that ," Digital is way more complicated." I disagree with that idea.

I think you are forgetting a few things. Here is my son, at age 3, reviewing his pictures that he 


 shot on an EOS 20D, with a 36-72mm f.3,5 Series E manual focus Nikkor lens, 13 years ago. He is today, exactly one month shy of 16.

This is a 3 year old, using a Canon D-SLR...


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## jcdeboever (May 12, 2019)

Derrel said:


> jcdeboever said:
> 
> 
> > Digital is way more complicated.>SNIP
> ...


I was talking about the act of taking the picture. I thought the op was talking about that.


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## pocketshaver (May 12, 2019)

jcdeboever said:


> I was talking about the act of taking the picture. I thought the op was talking about that.



yes that's what im talking about willis.  taking the picture.

When the reviews show a 1400 dollar dslr needing the user to go through that many menu options to get the camera ready to take a photo,, I kind of have to scratch my head on the usefulness of the complexity.


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## Soocom1 (May 12, 2019)

Well, Ill step into this. 

The fact of the matter is that film is only more complicated insofar as the actual processing side. 
Digital gives instant feedback. 

The primary difference with the older vs. newer is that with the digital system, you can expand upon it in ways film simply cannot. 
There really isn't much difference in the mechanical aspects of the image capture, but I do agree that its like a new car v. an older car. 
How many gadgets and "convenience" features are really needed? 

In all honesty (and keeping with this metaphor) its like saying Ill pull out the old Philco and put in a new Sony stereo because the Sony has 400 features where the Philco had 10.  Ironically, AM still sounds crappy on the Sony.


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## JonFZ300 (May 13, 2019)

pocketshaver said:


> yes that's what im talking about willis.  taking the picture.
> 
> When the reviews show a 1400 dollar dslr needing the user to go through that many menu options to get the camera ready to take a photo,, I kind of have to scratch my head on the usefulness of the complexity.



You don't need to go through that many options ever. You can take it out of the box, set it to "P" mode (or even straight-up auto mode if there is one) and start shooting perfectly fine pictures that you can see and review in less than a second after pushing the button. As I've said before, you can set it to manual and choose aperture, shutter speed and ISO and ignore all the bells and whistles. You can choose white balance setting in-camera or change it later if you shoot raw. 

You can do so much more with digital than film but if you want to keep hating on something you've never tried and clearly don't understand, be my guest.


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## Fred von den Berg (May 13, 2019)

Just because a camera body has lots of different options, doesn't mean you _must _use them. You can if you want or feel you need to. Lower end/entry level bodies perhaps require you to sift through the menu to find what you want to change/set, whilst more expensive/serious  kit will have separate buttons for the important/more useful stuff.  You pays your money, and you takes your choice.


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## Overread (May 13, 2019)

DSLRs are jack-of-all-trades tools. 

They offer you an option to point and shoot - just flick the camera into auto mode and off you go. Nothing more needed than the shutter button and a way to transfer the photos to your computer. By default almost all are sold shooting in JPEG mode anyway so you don't even have to go into the menu to turn off RAW. They also tend to have most of their JPEG editing features enabled by default as well - again they are sold and setup pretty much ready to go for the point and shoot photographer. 

Meanwhile they also offer you the ability to customise all the controls and settings. You can set it to RAW mode; choose which auto-editing features are enabled; adjust the exposure; change the focusing system priority and function; change the focusing mode; adjust its responsiveness to movement etc.... You can do loads of things which, whilst confusing at first, you can learn one by one. You can then have the luxury of choice.

You can choose to stay in auto or go into full manual and all the myriad of modes inbetween. 



The choice is up to the photographer. 

Now bridge and point and shoot cameras are even more setup for the automatic shooter. They often rely on auto so much that they have scene modes for typical situations which you access through a menu; whilst their ability to change settings (ergo manual mode) is often limited or more fiddly as you have to go through menus to access - whilst DSLRS have wheels for most (entry level tend to have one wheel that does both aperture and shutter; mid to advanced have a wheel for each of those and all tend to change ISO on a fast to click menu setting).


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## JBPhotog (May 13, 2019)

As a foundation of the argument that digital cameras are so complicated compared to film cameras, ask a working pro if they have seen a decline in business since the advent and adoption of digital cameras, the answer is precisely 180 degrees from your conclusion. Digital cameras have opened up photography to vastly more people to the point that it has had a major impact on the commercial photography industry. Adding to the fact that post processing technology has grown exponentially, art buyers have lowered their standards and their fees since the black art of film ruled the day.


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## Ysarex (May 13, 2019)

JBPhotog said:


> As a foundation of the argument that digital cameras are so complicated compared to film cameras, ask a working pro if they have seen a decline in business since the advent and adoption of digital cameras, the answer is precisely 180 degrees from your conclusion. Digital cameras have opened up photography to vastly more people to the point that it has had a major impact on the commercial photography industry. Adding to the fact that post processing technology has grown exponentially, art buyers have lowered their standards and their fees since the black art of film ruled the day.



Well damn! I wouldn't have given up film if I knew it was a black art. I always wanted to practice the black arts!

Joe


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## JBPhotog (May 13, 2019)

LOL


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## Derrel (May 13, 2019)

My three-year-old had no trouble using the Canon 20D ... but he preferred his mother's Nikon D40...


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## Derrel (May 13, 2019)

JonFZ300 said:


> pocketshaver said:
> 
> 
> > yes that's what im talking about willis.  taking the picture.
> ...


 

Negative fantasy, meet happy reality.


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## JonFZ300 (May 14, 2019)

Derrel said:


> View attachment 172999 My three-year-old had no trouble using the Canon 20D ... but he preferred his mother's Nikon D40...



I love that pic Derrel. Every time I see it I try to come up with a funny slogan.

"Oh this one is going to need some split toning, the blues are too saturated."

/offtopic


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