# How much do I charge for a photo shoot?



## Penguins

I would like to know how much to charge for a recreation photo shoot? I am just starting out with this and would like some idea on how much I should charge. Thanks
Penguins


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## 480sparky

Material + Labor + Overhead + Profit = Price.


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## mishele

This is a very complex question you asked w/ little to no details about your shoot.


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## MLeeK

This is such a hard question to answser. What my price is has no bearing on what anyone else's price is and telling you that you should charge THIS is just plain wrong. 

You need to know your cost of doing business.
You need to know your cost of goods
Let's have a hypothetical:  We'll say my CODB is about $100 or so per regular portrait session. We'll say I am a fair hand at processing and getting everything done quickly so the number of hours for a 1 hour shoot is roughly 6, but it's more than reasonable to expect a newbie to spend 8 hours on every one hour shoot. Value? I am a professional and I damn well better be making more than $10 an hour. I need to make roughly $300 minimum per session to cover my costs and my hourly. How I make that is up to me. I can charge a session fee of $300 with a print credit of whatever % of that I want, I can charge a session fee of $100 and expect the rest to come in sales. I can charge a $0 session fee and expect the rest in sales... It's all up to me how I want to structure that.


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## Bitter Jeweler

$2000


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## mishele

^^^^^I almost beat you to that....lol


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## Derrel

My standard answer to inquiries on how much to charge for a photoshoot:


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## kundalini

^^^fat bastard, that's my stanpat answer as well.


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## MLeeK

WOW. This has got to be the most useless forum on the internet. Really??? The guy asked for help and you give him the rude snark with NOTHING else? This place is Bedlam run by the inmates. WHAT THE HELL?


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## MissCream

I don't think anyone can properly answer this, they can only give you the tools to figure it out for yourself. We also don't know the quality of your work (which doesn't really matter since we don't know the regular rates in your area). Do some research locally and try and see what others are charging and go from there. Best of luck


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## Trever1t

MLeeK said:


> WOW. This has got to be the most useless forum on the internet. Really??? The guy asked for help and you give him the rude snark with NOTHING else? This place is Bedlam run by the inmates. WHAT THE HELL?



I see you took the time and effort to answer the OP too.


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## MLeeK

Trever1t said:


> MLeeK said:
> 
> 
> 
> WOW. This has got to be the  most useless forum on the internet. Really??? The guy asked for help  and you give him the rude snark with NOTHING else? This place is Bedlam  run by the inmates. WHAT THE HELL?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I see you took the time and effort to answer the OP too.
Click to expand...

Um, yeah. I did...  Post #4


MLeeK said:


> This is such a hard question to answser. What my price is has no bearing on what anyone else's price is and telling you that you should charge THIS is just plain wrong.
> 
> You need to know your cost of doing business.
> You need to know your cost of goods
> Let's have a hypothetical:  We'll say my CODB is about $100 or so per regular portrait session. We'll say I am a fair hand at processing and getting everything done quickly so the number of hours for a 1 hour shoot is roughly 6, but it's more than reasonable to expect a newbie to spend 8 hours on every one hour shoot. Value? I am a professional and I damn well better be making more than $10 an hour. I need to make roughly $300 minimum per session to cover my costs and my hourly. How I make that is up to me. I can charge a session fee of $300 with a print credit of whatever % of that I want, I can charge a session fee of $100 and expect the rest to come in sales. I can charge a $0 session fee and expect the rest in sales... It's all up to me how I want to structure that.


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## 480sparky

There is no dollar figure we can possibly give.  Costs vary widely across the country.  There's no way we can know the OP's cost of doing business.  With no hard data on gear, overhead, margins, costs, profits, etc. it would be pure folly to say $NNN.

Economic factors play into the scene as well.  You can be the best damn photographer in a 500-mile radius, what with your four $8,000 camera bodies, $67,00 in lenses, $13,000 in flashes..... and if your customers can't afford $50 for an 8x10 print, you'll end up working at Wally World One-Hour Photo Print.


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## kundalini

MLeeK said:


> WOW. This has got to be the most useless forum on the internet. Really??? The guy asked for help and you give him the rude snark with NOTHING else? This place is Bedlam run by the inmates. WHAT THE HELL?


WOW, it's taken you a whole month to figure this out?  My Grandfather instilled in me certain wisdoms well before Tom Hanks ever came on the scene as Forest Gump...... and it wasn't about a box of chocolates.  If you don't have the wherewithal to do some rudimentary investigation, then one should be subjected with a certain amount of contempt with such an open ended question.

The OP has one post.... how much do I charge.  Well, phuque me, I don't have a clue because the OP hasn't given enough information to give a reasonable reply.  How is your reply any more informative than the previous replies?  NONE.  Prove me wrong.


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## MLeeK

Yep. Its yet ANOTHER newbie who doesn't have any idea how complicated the question is that he is asking or what is even needed to begin to answer the question so we should most definitely be rude; giving snark and sarcasm will definitely help him to see the error of his ways. Some divine entity will then magically bestow upon the poor clueless soul the wisdom to be able to figure it out. The needed "formula" along with where to find the information needed to come up with the figures in that formula is going to seep into his knowledge base as he watches Fat Bastard and Dr. Evil.


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## MLeeK

Damn spell check.


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## MissCream

MLeeK said:
			
		

> Damn spell check.



At least it wasn't auto correct!
www.damnyouautocorrect.com


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## Overread

Mleek - bottom right hand corner of your posts should be an "Edit Post" button which you can use (the forum has no time limit) to change post content for corrections such as spelling.

Others - Drop the sillyness in replies (lets keep banter and music to threads friends have started and let the newer members settle in first).

I would like to encourage members to use the private messaging system in order to resolve personal conflicts or disagreements with each other; rather than fight them out in other peoples threads. It's not only disruptive to the site but also derails the thread away from its original intention. You also also free to use the ignore feature if you so choose and you can also report threads and talk direct to a moderator (we are nice friendly people ) if you have specific problems with members. In all cases we'll attempt to ensure that the situation is resolved for both parties. 
 In light of this I've removed the most recent posts and hope that we can return this thread to a better course than the one it was heading down.

Furthermore I would like to remind people that most of us are here because we enjoy helping others and that whilst we may have different styles, most are still sincere in their efforts to help. Lets try to keep an open mind and also tailor our replies so that newer members are not left so out of the loop. 

Ps music fans - to Off Topic with thee


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## Bitter Jeweler

Oh, censorship. How far will that hand reach?


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## kundalini

Bitter Jeweler said:


> Oh, censorship. How far will that hand reach?











Of course, if we're talkin' about jumpni' into the fire........


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## Trever1t

ok I am surprised someone else here knows Arthur Brown!


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## katerolla

I would charge $150 for the first two hours and that includes traveling and setting up and $50, $75 or even $100 for every hour after that


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## MLeeK

Bitter Jeweler said:
			
		

> Oh, censorship. How far will that hand reach?



Ah, yes. God forbid people should have to be decent to anyone asking a question that is annoying. Everyone should be able to say and do whatever they please regardless of whether it is flat out rude or not. 
Being under educated and seeking knowledge in a forum that was SUPPOSED to be for sharing knowledge is a crime. How dare they seek knowledge????


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## MLeeK

I'm done... for now. You guys have exhausted me.

But I will return to "mother" or "den mother" all I want. Yep. I read that one. I figure if you can be rude and nasty and say anything you Damn well please, well so can I. Good for the goose is good for the gander. 

Sweet dreams!


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## kundalini

MLeeK said:


> I'm done... for now. You guys have exhausted me.










MLeeK said:


> Sweet dreams!



....  are made of this.......


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## margosoriginals

I've been on this forum long enough to know that there are some people who get on here just to be rude. Why they do it, I don't know and I don't care- that's their problem. I am at the very beginning stages of learning photography, and there are times when I want to post a question and get answers from people who know what they're talking about. I usually end up not posting my questions, because I think, _"what if what I'm asking is something that presses one person's buttons, another chimes in, and that sets off the insults?" _I don't believe in censorship, but I do believe in treating people with damn respect. It's a lot easier to disrespect someone through your monitor and keyboard than it is to their face, so I think that's why a lot of people feel it is ok to be rude on a forum. 
The first time I posted a question on this forum, I was asking what lens I should buy for wedding photography. I was going to my cousin's wedding as a guest, and I saw it as an opportunity to get some great photos, and learn from the photographer (who had offered his help to me, I didn't ask). When I posted this question, some saw it as an opportunity to inform me that I was a nuisance to the professional photographer, that I should leave him alone, that I shouldn't be doing weddings because I am just a beginner, etc. etc. you get the point. Others gave great advice that I was thankful for, but I almost never came back after that because what's the point of being berated just to ask a simple question?

Anyways... to the OP I really don't know what to tell you because I don't charge for shoots yet myself! I know... not helpful at all


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## amatuerallie

*Moderator where are you??????????????????* *Please make a new rule that all questions need to be answered with TACT!*  Back to the ol' "If you have have anything nice to say, don't say it at all."  In this case the guy had a simple question about how much to charge for photo shoots, and this is the way he was treated??


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## cgipson1

MLeeK said:


> I'm done... for now. You guys have exhausted me.
> 
> But I will return to "mother" or "den mother" all I want. Yep. I read that one. I figure if you can be rude and nasty and say anything you Damn well please, well so can I. Good for the goose is good for the gander.
> 
> Sweet dreams!



What happened to "if you cant say something nice, don't say anything at all?"


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## cgipson1

amatuerallie said:


> *Moderator where are you??????????????????* *Please make a new rule that all questions need to be answered with TACT!*  Back to the ol' "If you have have anything nice to say, don't say it at all."  In this case the guy had a simple question about how much to charge for photo shoots, and this is the way he was treated??



Who defines what is TACTFUL?


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## 2WheelPhoto

I charge nothing, freebies.  As a photo college student, thats about what I'm worth right now. If you have no clue what to even charge, what do you think you're worth?  LoL

There are exceptions, I'll charge my "expenses" when people ask me to go to neighboring towns and such. And I confirmed with State Farm that doesn't affect my "non-professional" uber-low rate on my equipment insurance policy


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## Tee

I'm always a fan of the search prior posts before starting a thread.  In the case of "how much should I charge", there are several pages of results.


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## Bitter Jeweler

amatuerallie said:


> *Moderator where are you??????????????????* *Please make a new rule that all questions need to be answered with TACT!*  Back to the ol' "If you have have anything nice to say, don't say it at all."  In this case the guy had a simple question about how much to charge for photo shoots, and this is the way he was treated??



You should apply to be a moderator.


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## amatuerallie

cgipson1 said:


> amatuerallie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Moderator where are you??????????????????* *Please make a new rule that all questions need to be answered with TACT!* Back to the ol' "If you have have anything nice to say, don't say it at all." In this case the guy had a simple question about how much to charge for photo shoots, and this is the way he was treated??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who defines what is TACTFUL?
Click to expand...


I used to be an ebay powerseller.  I belonged to a forum where no one replied rude.  Because of this, and all the nice help I received, I made it all the way to silver level powerseller with all that I learned on the forum. Moral of the story, people can word things differently and not be rude on here.  Even when I made it silver level powerseller (I am the ebay QUEEN), all the NEW people that joined, I was more than willing to give advice and secrets and offer TRUE help.


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## bazooka

2WheelPhoto said:


> I charge nothing, freebies. As a photo college student, thats about what I'm worth right now. If you have no clue what to even charge, what do you think you're worth? LoL
> 
> There are exceptions, I'll charge my "expenses" when people ask me to go to neighboring towns and such. And I confirmed with State Farm that doesn't affect my "non-professional" uber-low rate on my equipment insurance policy



Nooooo!! You're putting all the pro's out of business!!! AHAHWGHGHAHHWH!  :lmao:


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## 2WheelPhoto

Tee said:


> I'm always a fan of the search prior posts before starting a thread.  In the case of "how much should I charge", there are several pages of results.



+1

And at least you didn't expose the top secret google tool!


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## 2WheelPhoto

bazooka said:


> 2WheelPhoto said:
> 
> 
> 
> I charge nothing, freebies. As a photo college student, thats about what I'm worth right now. If you have no clue what to even charge, what do you think you're worth? LoL
> 
> There are exceptions, I'll charge my "expenses" when people ask me to go to neighboring towns and such. And I confirmed with State Farm that doesn't affect my "non-professional" uber-low rate on my equipment insurance policy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nooooo!! You're putting all the pro's out of business!!! AHAHWGHGHAHHWH!  :lmao:
Click to expand...


No sir....   we all know better than that I'm just "a student"


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## Bitter Jeweler

amatuerallie said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> amatuerallie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Moderator where are you??????????????????* *Please make a new rule that all questions need to be answered with TACT!* Back to the ol' "If you have have anything nice to say, don't say it at all." In this case the guy had a simple question about how much to charge for photo shoots, and this is the way he was treated??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who defines what is TACTFUL?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I used to be an ebay powerseller.  I belonged to a forum where no one replied rude.  Because of this, and all the nice help I received, I made it all the way to silver level powerseller with all that I learned on the forum. Moral of the story, people can word things differently and not be rude on here.  Even when I made it silver level powerseller (I am the ebay QUEEN), all the NEW people that joined, I was more than willing to give advice and secrets and offer TRUE help.
Click to expand...


So you want everyone to be like you?

Sorry. I'll pass.


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## amatuerallie

Bitter Jeweler said:


> amatuerallie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Moderator where are you??????????????????* *Please make a new rule that all questions need to be answered with TACT!* Back to the ol' "If you have have anything nice to say, don't say it at all." In this case the guy had a simple question about how much to charge for photo shoots, and this is the way he was treated??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You should apply to be a moderator.
Click to expand...


I think I will sweetie   LOL!!


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## amatuerallie

Bitter Jeweler said:


> amatuerallie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who defines what is TACTFUL?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used to be an ebay powerseller. I belonged to a forum where no one replied rude. Because of this, and all the nice help I received, I made it all the way to silver level powerseller with all that I learned on the forum. Moral of the story, people can word things differently and not be rude on here. Even when I made it silver level powerseller (I am the ebay QUEEN), all the NEW people that joined, I was more than willing to give advice and secrets and offer TRUE help.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you want everyone to be like you?
> 
> Sorry. I'll pass.
Click to expand...



Muuuagggh!!!   XOXOXO!!!!!!


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## Compaq

When you're old and grey and thinking about your life as a professional "whatever", I'm pretty sure it's the apparently harsh advice, comments and criticism that you will tell others "made you what you are".


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## amatuerallie

Compaq said:


> When you're old and grey and thinking about your life as a professional "whatever", I'm pretty sure it's the apparently harsh advice, comments and criticism that you will tell others "made you what you are".



LOL.........


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## memento




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## bentcountershaft

Yes, it's certainly an awful environment here where people are encouraged to think for themselves or at least give us adequate information so that we can do their thinking for them.  And the poor folks that ask for C&C?  The people that respond to those threads obviously have no idea that it means Compliment & Coddle.


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## memento

OP - depends on what camera you're using. Canon or Nikon??


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## 2WheelPhoto

bentcountershaft said:


> Yes, it's certainly an awful environment here where people are encouraged to think for themselves or at least give us adequate information so that we can do their thinking for them.  And the poor folks that ask for C&C?  The people that respond to those threads obviously have no idea that* it means Compliment & Coddle*.


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## tirediron

MLeeK said:


> Bitter Jeweler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, censorship. How far will that hand reach?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, yes. God forbid people should have to be decent to anyone asking a question that is annoying. Everyone should be able to say and do whatever they please regardless of whether it is flat out rude or not.
> Being under educated and seeking knowledge in a forum that was SUPPOSED to be for sharing knowledge is a crime. How dare they seek knowledge????
Click to expand...

Perhaps I can put this in perspective for you MLeeK:  "I just bought a bag of medical instruments the other day and have an appointment to remove someone's appendix tomorrow.  Could someone tell me where in the body it is located, and how best to perfrom the procedure?"

Now, before you mutter, "Moron, what a stupid analogy", think about it it for a moment.  You'd expect your doctor to be a trained professional, right?  Why should your photographer be any different?  Many times potographers are charged with the task of recording once-in-a-lifetime events.  Things that can NEVER be a 'do-over'.  Is it fair to the client, who, in good faith thinks that he or she has hired someone knowledgable in the field, only to be find out three months after her wedding the that the Fauxtographer only purchased their camera from Best-Buy that morning.

So, by extension, one should be able to presume that someone who has training and education in a given field would have included in that traing and education at least the rudiments of business practice, and how to estimate cost.  As has been stated several times, without knowing where the OP is located, what his cost of doing business is, etc, it is IMPOSSIBLE to tell him what to charge.

I applaud your efforts to maintain a polite and pleasant tone on the board, BUT...

However, in the spirit of the thread, to the OP:  I would charge $100/hr.


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## memento

tirediron said:


> I just bought a bag of medical instruments the other day and have an appointment to remove someone's appendix tomorrow. Could someone tell me where in the body it is located, and how best to perfrom the procedure?



* LOUIE CK *


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## Tee

bentcountershaft said:


> Yes, it's certainly an awful environment here where people are encouraged to think for themselves or at least give us adequate information so that we can do their thinking for them. And the poor folks that ask for C&C? The people that respond to those threads obviously have no idea that it means Compliment & Coddle.



For the win!


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## 2WheelPhoto




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## MLeeK

margosoriginals said:


> I've been on this forum long enough to know that there are some people who get on here just to be rude. Why they do it, I don't know and I don't care- that's their problem. I am at the very beginning stages of learning photography, and there are times when I want to post a question and get answers from people who know what they're talking about.* I usually end up not posting my questions, because I think, "what if what I'm asking is something that presses one person's buttons, another chimes in, and that sets off the insults?" *I don't believe in censorship, but I do believe in treating people with damn respect. It's a lot easier to disrespect someone through your monitor and keyboard than it is to their face, so I think that's why a lot of people feel it is ok to be rude on a forum.
> The first time I posted a question on this forum, I was asking what lens I should buy for wedding photography. I was going to my cousin's wedding as a guest, and I saw it as an opportunity to get some great photos, and learn from the photographer (who had offered his help to me, I didn't ask). When I posted this question, some saw it as an opportunity to inform me that I was a nuisance to the professional photographer, that I should leave him alone, that I shouldn't be doing weddings because I am just a beginner, etc. etc. you get the point. Others gave great advice that I was thankful for, but *I almost never came back after that because what's the point of being berated just to ask a simple question?*
> 
> Anyways... to the OP I really don't know what to tell you because I don't charge for shoots yet myself! I know... not helpful at all



And the right to do that comes because??? They were here first and are sick of seeing amateur questions. And because no one stops of it. Probably for fear of being considered censoring.


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## imagemaker46

I suppose we can assume that the OP is an amateur photographer, we don't know if they even have the skills to be charging anything. If the OP is a professional, they should already know what they are worth based on their skills.  

The question can't be answered without the information.


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## Trever1t

Where do I apply for the moderator position?


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## MLeeK

Compaq said:


> When you're old and grey and thinking about your life as a professional "whatever", I'm pretty sure it's the apparently harsh advice, comments and criticism that you will tell others "made you what you are".



ABSOLUTELY! But the comments here aren't harsh in a constructive way at all. They are snide and rude and picking fun at the newbie because he PROBABLY doesn't know what he is doing. No one bothers to ASK if he knows jack squat about his camera and what he is doing. For all you really know he could be an amateur who has been shooting for YEARS with the camera skills who has just plain never had the desire to go into business before. Yep, I know the chances are slim that it's the real way of it. 
The harsh comments and criticism can be given with some tact and respect. The crap here has not an ounce of respect in it. It's all "you've made one post so your are a moron and we'll make fun of you until you go away." 
Did your math teacher tell you to go away because you couldn't add when you stated? Was he or she mean to you because you didn't know how to do a damn thing with numbers? Did the dreaded English teacher berate, poke fun and laugh at you with her pals in public because you didn't know how to read and write when you were little? 



bentcountershaft said:


> Yes, it's certainly an awful environment here where people are encouraged to think for themselves or at least give us adequate information so that we can do their thinking for them.  And the poor folks that ask for C&C?  The people that respond to those threads obviously have no idea that it means Compliment & Coddle.


 *I am pretty confident that my reply encouraged the OP to do a little research without being flat out nasty and giving the total joke that was given. It didn't "compliment & coddle," it explained in a rather respectful manner that he needed more information and education to come up with a price. Far from compliment and coddle. *



tirediron said:


> MLeeK said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bitter Jeweler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, censorship. How far will that hand reach?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, yes. God forbid people should have to be decent to anyone asking a question that is annoying. Everyone should be able to say and do whatever they please regardless of whether it is flat out rude or not.
> Being under educated and seeking knowledge in a forum that was SUPPOSED to be for sharing knowledge is a crime. How dare they seek knowledge????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Perhaps I can put this in perspective for you MLeeK:  "I just bought a bag of medical instruments the other day and have an appointment to remove someone's appendix tomorrow.  Could someone tell me where in the body it is located, and how best to perfrom the procedure?"
> 
> Now, before you mutter, "Moron, what a stupid analogy", think about it it for a moment.  You'd expect your doctor to be a trained professional, right?  Why should your photographer be any different?  Many times potographers are charged with the task of recording once-in-a-lifetime events.  Things that can NEVER be a 'do-over'.  Is it fair to the client, who, in good faith thinks that he or she has hired someone knowledgable in the field, only to be find out three months after her wedding the that the Fauxtographer only purchased their camera from Best-Buy that morning.
Click to expand...


I have been in the field and seen the Fautographer come and go. I know what the odds are and I know that the analogy holds true. You can't curcify someone who is learning that for the sins of the others. Then again, according to the Catholics Sins of the father and all that crap, maybe you can.  
The poor dude who bought the camera at Best Buy sees everyone else doing it and it looks easy as hell. He DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HE DOESN'T KNOW yet so picking at him and being an a$$ sure isn't going to teach him a damn thing. 

This is useless. Evidently it's with the site owners and moderators here to allow you to berate, belittle and chase off any new members that the place may get. This is a gang of self important wanna-be's with a little bit of talent who need to feel oh-so-important so they've created a forum to invite people to so they can nail their asses to the wall while they get a few laughs out of it. I don't see any of your names up there on the marquee for Imaging, PhotoPlus, WPPi, PhotoShop world because they're not going to be. I do see you pointing to those guys who are on the handbill using their blogs and information. Thankfully the PROFESSIONALS are willing to share and teach all of that without being a$$holes to the new guys. They have chosen to EDUCATE the newbies with a little respect, tact and giving them guidance. 
In doing so they are preserving the industry for the pompous asses like you who think that berating the new guy for ignorance is going to help. It's not. He's going to do the shoot and ruin something and give all of us a bad name as photographers. He thinks it's easy and will walk away from here thinking we're all a bunch of rude a$$holes who don't know what we are talking about. 

No wonder I don't see any of the big names contributing here. I see them on other forums... Why is that??? Perhaps they don't want to be affiliated with the nastiness? 

The best ant killer in the world attracts the ants with sweetness. But it's lethal in killing the pests. 

Laughing at ignorance and un-educated newbies isn't going to stop them. They are going to do it. Tell me, has it worked for you yet? I see more determined newbies leaving here calling "bullsh1t" and heading off to charge $50 for the session and throwing in everything but the kitchen sink. And when he fails? there will be 10 more to take his place.


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## MLeeK

Bitter Jeweler said:


> amatuerallie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Moderator where are you??????????????????* *Please make a new rule that all questions need to be answered with TACT!*  Back to the ol' "If you have have anything nice to say, don't say it at all."  In this case the guy had a simple question about how much to charge for photo shoots, and this is the way he was treated??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You should apply to be a moderator.
Click to expand...


I'd take that position. But then I'd really have to piss some people off because I'd have to censor some of this crap.


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## cgipson1

MLeeK said:


> And the right to do that comes because??? They were here first and are sick of seeing amateur questions. And because no one stops of it. Probably for fear of being considered censoring.



I doubt that the moderators will NOT do something because of a fear of censorship accusations. But they do try to treat us like adults, and not force feed us any PC pablum.

The way a question is phrased means a lot here... if there is good information and some explanation of need included in the question, then normally the replies will also have good information and a minimum of sarcasm.

If the question includes any of the following :

(just starting out)
(total beginner)
(just bought first camera)
(is my el cheapo kit lens ok for weddings)
(why do I need flash?)
(what is an aperture?)
(etc..)

and also includes

(How much should I charge)
(first pro gig tomorrow)
(just shot my first wedding)
(etc....)

then yes, replies will probably be sarcastic and not very helpful. Gee.. and I wonder why!


----------



## cgipson1

fortunately Moderators typically need to be open minded and fair... and not push their own personal beliefs and more's on to others. I doubt that most people would qualify.. I know I wouldn't want the position!


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## MLeeK

Tee said:


> I'm always a fan of the search prior posts before starting a thread.  In the case of "how much should I charge", there are several pages of results.



You are absolutely right. But does the new member even know how to go about that? We've all been members of forums and contributed, but does he? Holy Cow... How about... SUGGESTING THAT TO HIM? 

"Golly gee, OP, if you search in that funny little search bar up there you'll find a LOT of posts here with a ton of information on just that." _(and those of us who are already smarter than God won't have to be decent to you! ADDED BONUS!)_


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## 480sparky

FWIW, on all the pro boards I frequent (in the electrical trade, not photography), pricing questions are promptly closed.

Not because of the ridicule that ensues, but because the question simply *cannot be answered*.


----------



## Derrel

MLeeK said:


> Compaq said:
> 
> 
> 
> When you're old and grey and thinking about your life as a professional "whatever", I'm pretty sure it's the apparently harsh advice, comments and criticism that you will tell others "made you what you are".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABSOLUTELY! But the comments here aren't harsh in a constructive way at all. They are snide and rude and picking fun at the newbie because he PROBABLY doesn't know what he is doing. No one bothers to ASK if he knows jack squat about his camera and what he is doing. For all you really know he could be an amateur who has been shooting for YEARS with the camera skills who has just plain never had the desire to go into business before. Yep, I know the chances are slim that it's the real way of it.
> The harsh comments and criticism can be given with some tact and respect. The crap here has not an ounce of respect in it. It's all "you've made one post so your are a moron and we'll make fun of you until you go away."
> Did your math teacher tell you to go away because you couldn't add when you stated? Was he or she mean to you because you didn't know how to do a damn thing with numbers? Did the dreaded English teacher berate, poke fun and laugh at you with her pals in public because you didn't know how to read and write when you were little?
> 
> 
> 
> bentcountershaft said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's certainly an awful environment here where people are encouraged to think for themselves or at least give us adequate information so that we can do their thinking for them.  And the poor folks that ask for C&C?  The people that respond to those threads obviously have no idea that it means Compliment & Coddle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *I am pretty confident that my reply encouraged the OP to do a little research without being flat out nasty and giving the total joke that was given. It didn't "compliment & coddle," it explained in a rather respectful manner that he needed more information and education to come up with a price. Far from compliment and coddle. *
> 
> 
> 
> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MLeeK said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, yes. God forbid people should have to be decent to anyone asking a question that is annoying. Everyone should be able to say and do whatever they please regardless of whether it is flat out rude or not.
> Being under educated and seeking knowledge in a forum that was SUPPOSED to be for sharing knowledge is a crime. How dare they seek knowledge????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Perhaps I can put this in perspective for you MLeeK:  "I just bought a bag of medical instruments the other day and have an appointment to remove someone's appendix tomorrow.  Could someone tell me where in the body it is located, and how best to perfrom the procedure?"
> 
> Now, before you mutter, "Moron, what a stupid analogy", think about it it for a moment.  You'd expect your doctor to be a trained professional, right?  Why should your photographer be any different?  Many times potographers are charged with the task of recording once-in-a-lifetime events.  Things that can NEVER be a 'do-over'.  Is it fair to the client, who, in good faith thinks that he or she has hired someone knowledgable in the field, only to be find out three months after her wedding the that the Fauxtographer only purchased their camera from Best-Buy that morning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have been in the field and seen the Fautographer come and go. I know what the odds are and I know that the analogy holds true. You can't curcify someone who is learning that for the sins of the others. Then again, according to the Catholics Sins of the father and all that crap, maybe you can.
> The poor dude who bought the camera at Best Buy sees everyone else doing it and it looks easy as hell. He DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HE DOESN'T KNOW yet so picking at him and being an a$$ sure isn't going to teach him a damn thing.
> 
> This is useless. Evidently it's with the site owners and moderators here to allow you to berate, belittle and chase off any new members that the place may get. This is a gang of self important wanna-be's with a little bit of talent who need to feel oh-so-important so they've created a forum to invite people to so they can nail their asses to the wall while they get a few laughs out of it. I don't see any of your names up there on the marquee for Imaging, PhotoPlus, WPPi, PhotoShop world because they're not going to be. I do see you pointing to those guys who are on the handbill using their blogs and information. Thankfully the PROFESSIONALS are willing to share and teach all of that without being a$$holes to the new guys. They have chosen to EDUCATE the newbies with a little respect, tact and giving them guidance.
> In doing so they are preserving the industry for the pompous asses like you who think that berating the new guy for ignorance is going to help. It's not. He's going to do the shoot and ruin something and give all of us a bad name as photographers. He thinks it's easy and will walk away from here thinking we're all a bunch of rude a$$holes who don't know what we are talking about.
> 
> No wonder I don't see any of the big names contributing here. I see them on other forums... Why is that??? Perhaps they don't want to be affiliated with the nastiness?
> 
> The best ant killer in the world attracts the ants with sweetness. But it's lethal in killing the pests.
> 
> Laughing at ignorance and un-educated newbies isn't going to stop them. They are going to do it. Tell me, has it worked for you yet? I see more determined newbies leaving here calling "bullsh1t" and heading off to charge $50 for the session and throwing in everything but the kitchen sink. And when he fails? there will be 10 more to take his place.
Click to expand...


_Uh, MLeeK, how much should the OP charge for the photo shoot? Any ideas on the actual subject at hand? Anything? Anything at all?_


----------



## MLeeK

cgipson1 said:


> fortunately Moderators typically need to be open minded and fair... and not push their own personal beliefs and more's on to others. I doubt that most people would qualify.. I know I wouldn't want the position!



*That's my point!!! There is no open minded and fair to berating, snark, belittling and flat out picking fun at the new members for their ignorance! There is no open minded and fair in allowing the attack on anyone. *


----------



## MLeeK

Derrel said:


> _Uh, MLeeK, how much should the OP charge for the photo shoot? Any ideas on the actual subject at hand? Anything? Anything at all?_



Not a friggin' clue... but then my ORIGINAL post said that and WHY. RESPECTFULLY.


----------



## memento

MLeeK said:


> *I am pretty confident that my reply encouraged the OP to do a little research *



i am pretty confident that your reply encouraged the OP to LOL after seeing how riled up you have gotten in his troll thread.

OP -1 
MLeek - 0


----------



## memento

MLeeK said:


> Not a friggin' clue...



case closed.


----------



## tirediron

MLeeK said:


> ...This is useless. Evidently it's with the site owners and moderators here to allow you to berate, belittle and chase off any new members that the place may get.


I find this offensive in the extreme. Can you please point to any post(s) where you feel that I have berated, belittled, or chased off anyone?



MLeeK said:


> I don't see any of your names up there on the marquee for Imaging, PhotoPlus, WPPi, PhotoShop world because they're not going to be.


Can you please show me where your name appears on one or more of those 'sites?



MLeeK said:


> I do see you pointing to those guys who are on the handbill using their blogs and information.


Again madam, I resent this. I have never, to the best of my recollection used anyone's blog, 'site or information, other than such 'sites as Cambridge in Color, or The Strobist, and than only as links to ASSIST OTHERS. Please check your work!



MLeeK said:


> In doing so they are preserving the industry for the pompous asses like you who


My, it certainly is the day for personal attacks. I don't recall saying anything derogatory to you. I trust an apology will be forthcoming unless you can show me where I have offended you.


----------



## tirediron

MLeeK said:


> *That's my point!!! There is no open minded and fair to berating, snark, belittling and flat out picking fun at the new members for their ignorance! There is no open minded and fair in allowing the attack on anyone. *


You seem to have done a pretty fair job of attacking me!


----------



## shootermcgavin

480sparky said:


> FWIW, on all the pro boards I frequent (in the electrical trade, not photography), pricing questions are promptly closed.
> 
> Not because of the ridicule that ensues, but because the question simply *cannot be answered*.



Doesn't really make sense, if you can't answer questions about pricing then you definitely should be in another business that you can.  If I had a customer call me and I told him sorry I can't answer your questions about pricing they would probably get mad and hang up.  Pricing is a great question and IMO the first that should be asked.  When I was a kid and people came in to speak to us in school the first question I asked was how much do you make?  It might sound rude, but it's the most important question.  I don't know why it's difficult if someone asks how much to charge to say, hey this is what I charge...  There's 100's of photographers that post their prices online even a link to one of those might be good.  I've never heard of this, you are in a forum rule, that states you have to put up with a-holes.


----------



## MLeeK

tirediron said:


> MLeeK said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...This is useless. Evidently it's with the site owners and moderators here to allow you to berate, belittle and chase off any new members that the place may get.
> 
> 
> 
> I find this offensive in the extreme. Can you please point to any post(s) where you feel that I have berated, belittled, or chased off anyone?
> 
> 
> 
> MLeeK said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see any of your names up there on the marquee for Imaging, PhotoPlus, WPPi, PhotoShop world because they're not going to be.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can you please show me where your name appears on one or more of those 'sites? It's not, and it's not going to be. I am NOT a public speaker, but they have definitely earned a healthy dose of respect because of the way they treat people. They have earned the respect of their peers for that PROFESSIONALISM. Something MANY here are totally lacking.
> 
> 
> 
> MLeeK said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do see you pointing to those guys who are on the handbill using their blogs and information.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again madam, I resent this. I have never, to the best of my recollection used anyone's blog, 'site or information, other than such 'sites as Cambridge in Color, or The Strobist, and than only as links to ASSIST OTHERS. Please check your work! You're damn right I point to others. Especially to the newbies. I am NOT about to write the book for them a hundred times. I AM, however, giving a response to them that is respectful AND helpful while not stirring up the sh1t pool.
> 
> 
> 
> MLeeK said:
> 
> 
> 
> In doing so they are preserving the industry for the pompous asses like you who
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My, it certainly is the day for personal attacks. I don't recall saying anything derogatory to you. I trust an apology will be forthcoming unless you can show me where I have offended you.
Click to expand...

And where did I say that it was YOU I was talking to?  You jumped in when you felt the friends being attacked or 
And just where were you involved in this argument before that you seem to feel that this was pointed at you? Guilty conscience?


----------



## tirediron

shootermcgavin said:


> Doesn't really make sense, if you can't answer questions about pricing then you definitely should be in another business that you can. If I had a customer call me and I told him sorry I can't answer your questions about pricing they would probably get mad and hang up...


I agree completely; if you can't answer client/customer enquiries on pricing you are in a world of hurt, but if someone in your line of business (for the sake of argument, we'll assume you run a widgit polishing service)  called you from an undisclosed location and asked you simply, "How much should I charge for polishing widgets, I would submit that it would be virtually impossible for you to answer.  You could tell him/her how much you charge, but as to how much he should charge?


----------



## amatuerallie

For the love of GOD, let it go man.......had to throw in one of my fav things I say all the time


----------



## MLeeK

MLeeK said:


> In doing so they are preserving the industry for the pompous asses like you who


My, it certainly is the day for personal attacks. I don't recall saying anything derogatory to you. I trust an apology will be forthcoming unless you can show me where I have offended you.[/QUOTE]

In all honesty it's not directed at YOU per se. It's directed at those who believe that the poking fun at the newbies because of their ignorance. It is not well typed as I am definitely typing this faster than my brain is catching how my meanings can be taken. I do apologize if you feel it is a PERSONAL attack. It's most definitely not personal. Now if you believe that giving no respect to the newbies because they are ignorant of the ways of the world here? Then yes, it's a personal attack.


----------



## 2WheelPhoto

tirediron said:


> shootermcgavin said:
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't really make sense, if you can't answer questions about pricing then you definitely should be in another business that you can. If I had a customer call me and I told him sorry I can't answer your questions about pricing they would probably get mad and hang up...
> 
> 
> 
> I agree completely; *if you can't answer client/customer enquiries on pricing you are in a world of hurt*, but if someone in your line of business (for the sake of argument, we'll assume you run a widgit polishing service)  called you from an undisclosed location and asked you simply, "How much should I charge for polishing widgets, I would submit that it would be virtually impossible for you to answer.  You could tell him/her how much you charge, but as to how much he should charge?
Click to expand...


Well maybe he replied to customer "I'll get back to you, let me throw that out on the Internetz for advice"


----------



## Derrel

MLeeK said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Uh, MLeeK, how much should the OP charge for the photo shoot? Any ideas on the actual subject at hand? Anything? Anything at all?_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not a friggin' clue... but then my ORIGINAL post said that and WHY. RESPECTFULLY.
Click to expand...


My ORIGINAL post also conveyed that I didn't have a clue as to how much to charge. I made that point by using something called HUMOR. 

You see, MLeeK, Dr. Evil had been frozen for years, and he HAD NO IDEA HOW MUCH a million dollars was WORTH in TODAY'S environment when he proposed that amount of money. Get it??? It is a doubly-funny joke, to people who have the cultural currency to actually understand the "one Million dollars!" reference is being put forth by somebody who is totally,totally unsure of how much money to ask for!! Is this a bit clearer to you, and to others who might not have seen the movie???


----------



## tirediron

MLeeK said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MLeeK said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...This is useless. Evidently it's with the site owners and moderators here to allow *you* to berate, belittle and chase off any new members that the place may get.
> 
> 
> 
> I find this offensive in the extreme. Can you please point to any post(s) where you feel that I have berated, belittled, or chased off anyone?
> 
> 
> Can you please show me where your name appears on one or more of those 'sites? It's not, and it's not going to be. I am NOT a public speaker, but they have definitely earned a healthy dose of respect because of the way they treat people. They have earned the respect of their peers for that PROFESSIONALISM. Something MANY here are totally lacking.
> 
> 
> Again madam, I resent this. I have never, to the best of my recollection used anyone's blog, 'site or information, other than such 'sites as Cambridge in Color, or The Strobist, and than only as links to ASSIST OTHERS. Please check your work! You're damn right I point to others. Especially to the newbies. I am NOT about to write the book for them a hundred times. I AM, however, giving a response to them that is respectful AND helpful while not stirring up the sh1t pool.
> 
> 
> 
> MLeeK said:
> 
> 
> 
> In doing so they are preserving the industry for the pompous asses like *you* who
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My, it certainly is the day for personal attacks. I don't recall saying anything derogatory to you. I trust an apology will be forthcoming unless you can show me where I have offended you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And where did I say that it was YOU I was talking to?You jumped in when you felt the friends being attacked or
> And just where were you involved in this argument before that you seem to feel that this was pointed at you? Guilty conscience?
Click to expand...

Highlighted, under-lined bold-face, red type.  As I addressed you directly, I can only assume that your response was intended for me lacking and statement from you to the contrary.  

With respect to your comment about my "friends", since I have never actually met another member of this forum, I'm hesitant to use the term.  

I have no feelings of guilt and was simply trying to point out to you how I believe the original question was perceived by various members of this forum.


----------



## MLeeK

Ok, your humor wasn't lost on those of us who have been here to see it and understand why you said what you did... However how does it look to someone just walking in the door wanting to join a group for to learn from their knowledge? It's not funny and the meaning is TOTALLY lost and becomes rude. He doesn't know that we can't answer that question or why we respond that we haven't a friggin' clue.


----------



## MLeeK

tirediron said:


> MLeeK said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> 
> I find this offensive in the extreme. Can you please point to any post(s) where you feel that I have berated, belittled, or chased off anyone?
> 
> 
> Can you please show me where your name appears on one or more of those 'sites? It's not, and it's not going to be. I am NOT a public speaker, but they have definitely earned a healthy dose of respect because of the way they treat people. They have earned the respect of their peers for that PROFESSIONALISM. Something MANY here are totally lacking.
> 
> 
> Again madam, I resent this. I have never, to the best of my recollection used anyone's blog, 'site or information, other than such 'sites as Cambridge in Color, or The Strobist, and than only as links to ASSIST OTHERS. Please check your work! You're damn right I point to others. Especially to the newbies. I am NOT about to write the book for them a hundred times. I AM, however, giving a response to them that is respectful AND helpful while not stirring up the sh1t pool.
> 
> 
> My, it certainly is the day for personal attacks. I don't recall saying anything derogatory to you. I trust an apology will be forthcoming unless you can show me where I have offended you.
> 
> 
> 
> And where did I say that it was YOU I was talking to?You jumped in when you felt the friends being attacked or
> And just where were you involved in this argument before that you seem to feel that this was pointed at you? Guilty conscience?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Highlighted, under-lined bold-face, red type.  As I addressed you directly, I can only assume that your response was intended for me lacking and statement from you to the contrary.
> 
> With respect to your comment about my "friends", since I have never actually met another member of this forum, I'm hesitant to use the term.
> 
> I have no feelings of guilt and was simply trying to point out to you how I believe the original question was perceived by various members of this forum.
Click to expand...

 


MLeeK said:


> MLeeK said:
> 
> 
> 
> In doing so they are preserving the industry for the pompous asses like you who
> 
> 
> 
> My, it certainly is the day for personal attacks. I don't recall saying anything derogatory to you. I trust an apology will be forthcoming unless you can show me where I have offended you.
Click to expand...


*In all honesty it's not directed at YOU per se. It's directed at those who believe that the poking fun at the newbies because of their ignorance. It is not well typed as I am definitely typing this faster than my brain is catching how my meanings can be taken. I do apologize if you feel it is a PERSONAL attack. It's most definitely not personal. Now if you believe that giving no respect to the newbies because they are ignorant of the ways of the world here? Then yes, it's a personal attack.*[/QUOTE]
Re-submit


----------



## shootermcgavin

tirediron said:


> shootermcgavin said:
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't really make sense, if you can't answer questions about pricing then you definitely should be in another business that you can. If I had a customer call me and I told him sorry I can't answer your questions about pricing they would probably get mad and hang up...
> 
> 
> 
> I agree completely; if you can't answer client/customer enquiries on pricing you are in a world of hurt, but if someone in your line of business (for the sake of argument, we'll assume you run a widgit polishing service)  called you from an undisclosed location and asked you simply, "How much should I charge for polishing widgets, I would submit that it would be virtually impossible for you to answer.  You could tell him/her how much you charge, but as to how much he should charge?
Click to expand...


Well the simple answer is charge enough to cover your overhead and give you a wage you are happy with.  I don't think it would be impossible to answer, would I want to answer it on their time probably not, but on a forum you get to choose to answer.  If they got no replies I think they would get the picture.  I definitely reply with sarcasm that may be considered rude but I try my best not to.  There's always going to be problems in a forum, it's just part of the forum nature.  What's sad is I didn't even read the first couple pages of this thread when I saw a question about what to charge I came in assuming this discussion would have already began.  It's a great thing to check out while I'm on the phone with customers so I don't get too antsy to shut them up and get some work done.


----------



## Trever1t

Wonder what the OP has to say a out all this? Perhaps a Troll is peeing his/her britches somewhere?


----------



## MLeeK

And you all are blessed with a few moments of my silence. I have to shoot this afternoon, but I will return. I do have something more to say-including a bit of an apology (don't expect much... LOL) (that was snarky humor, by the way...), but I also have to work. 

Until then... You have time to come up with your next argument! 
And remember... The glass IS half fulll. I said so.


----------



## MLeeK

Trever1t said:


> Wonder what the OP has to say a out all this? Perhaps a Troll is peeing his/her britches somewhere?


God, I hope so!


----------



## Bitter Jeweler

MLeeK said:


> And you all are blessed with a few moments of my silence. I have to shoot this afternoon, but I will return. I do have something more to say-including a bit of an apology (don't expect much... LOL) (that was snarky humor, by the way...), but I also have to work.
> 
> Until then... You have time to come up with your next argument!
> And remember... The glass IS half fulll. I said so.



You should probably include a nap in there somewhere. Geez.


----------



## 480sparky

Seeing how this has gone so far off-topic it ain't funny any more, I suggest it be closed.


----------

