# Ok, Great idea?!?! or waste of time?



## JimmyO (Jun 1, 2008)

Alright. So my and my other photographer buddy are looking to start a business this summer. We both have nice setups and a fair amount of connections. We made a freewebs site and plan on getting an Exposure Manager page to sell our shots. Our basic business plan is to both have set-up photoshoots of subjects ranging from local familys/kids looking to get some portraits and group shots, to shooting real estate pictures for local landscapers and contractors. We also want to go to some big events (mainly out local 4th of july festivities) and take lots of candids and spur of the moments shots. I hope to get an add in the event flyer saying to go to our site to order prints. I think this day will provide a wide range of customers because there are many things going on that day (fun run, pet pageant, games at park, downhill race, raft race and a parade) 

Do you think it is do able to run a somewhat profitable business without having a professional studio and is it possible for 2 photography students to get the word out enough to even get customers? Any input is appreciated!


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## Meysha (Jun 1, 2008)

Yes yes and yes... to basically everything you just said.

The toughest thing will be getting people to go to your website to buy the pics. Always give them more than one method of purchasing. ie: list a phone number as well as the website. Try and get interested people's details so you can ring them if they don't follow you up.

You don't need a studio, you don't even need to take great photos (although it helps hehe) What you do need is sales ability... talk the talk, walk the walk and network like you've never networked before.


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## JimmyO (Jun 1, 2008)

Meysha said:


> Yes yes and yes... to basically everything you just said.
> 
> The toughest thing will be getting people to go to your website to buy the pics. Always give them more than one method of purchasing. ie: list a phone number as well as the website. Try and get interested people's details so you can ring them if they don't follow you up.
> 
> You don't need a studio, you don't even need to take great photos (although it helps hehe) What you do need is sales ability... talk the talk, walk the walk and network like you've never networked before.



Thanks!

I aggree, were really going to need to market ourselves. It doesnt matter how good shots we take, if the person doesnt know about them or how to get them it would just a waste of time. After doing some research i think ive decided on Exposure Manager to be the place to sell my prints. I was considering trying to create a system on my website but i realized that paying the 12 dollars a month would be worth it to have them do it all for me. I plan on having a part of the site where there will be a list of all my recent events and there will be linked to take them to that section of my gallary. Btw, heres the site so far:

http://beyondphotographyy.webs.com


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## JimmyO (Jun 1, 2008)

Any more input guys?


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## DeadEye (Jun 1, 2008)

I tried a new approach recently and it seems to be working OK.  I gave away shots of an event in 8x10 print.  I shot all the people of a graduation that I could from the crummy placement I received.  Then picked out those who I knew and hand delivered one 8x10 to there home with my name and number on the back of the print. So far I have received nine orders for more of the prints and I always pitch to them that I would be happy to do a private shoot if ever they need it.


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## JimmyO (Jun 1, 2008)

Intresting. Ive been doing something similar. In the past few weeks ive been walking around town looking for things to shot. Sometimes i would go up to people, and even same came up to me, and ask if they want some shots done. Then i get their email address and send them a few along with contact info for if they would ever consider using me for anything else.


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## DeadEye (Jun 2, 2008)

Only luck I'v had with online gallery is by doing horse shows. They are a great money maker like this.  Make lots of cards with your info on them.  Shoot all the little girls on there horse troting around and try to get ribbon and jump shots.  Put all the keepers on the websight PRONTO, strike wile the iron is hot.  You will get tons of hits that day and the following day but allmost no online sales.  At the next shoot people will remember that you were the one that took all those wonderfull shots of there lil angel that they looked at online, now pitch the private shoot for there girl with her horse.


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## JimmyO (Jun 2, 2008)

DeadEye said:


> Only luck I'v had with online gallery is by doing horse shows. They are a great money maker like this.  Make lots of cards with your info on them.  Shoot all the little girls on there horse troting around and try to get ribbon and jump shots.  Put all the keepers on the websight PRONTO, strike wile the iron is hot.  You will get tons of hits that day and the following day but allmost no online sales.  At the next shoot people will remember that you were the one that took all those wonderfull shots of there lil angel that they looked at online, now pitch the private shoot for there girl with her horse.



I like the way you think!

I think this kind of method could be employed to other things i have easy access to (little sisters)


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## Bthornton (Jun 2, 2008)

JimmyO said:


> Alright. So my and my other photographer buddy are looking to start a business this summer. We both have nice setups and a fair amount of connections. We made a freewebs site and plan on getting an Exposure Manager page to sell our shots. Our basic business plan is to both have set-up photoshoots of subjects ranging from local familys/kids looking to get some portraits and group shots, to shooting real estate pictures for local landscapers and contractors. We also want to go to some big events (mainly out local 4th of july festivities) and take lots of candids and spur of the moments shots. I hope to get an add in the event flyer saying to go to our site to order prints. I think this day will provide a wide range of customers because there are many things going on that day (fun run, pet pageant, games at park, downhill race, raft race and a parade)
> 
> Do you think it is do able to run a somewhat profitable business without having a professional studio and is it possible for 2 photography students to get the word out enough to even get customers? Any input is appreciated!


I would think it would work out for you if your work is good and you really market yourself. 
About a year ago I started a mobile studio/event photo biz with a pal of mine and now we are so busy that we are raising our prices and turning away biz. Not having a studio has been a plus for us. We really market the benefits of us coming to our customers and they love it. 
One thing you need to think about with your plan (and I might be misunderstanding this part) if you plan to take photos at an event and post them on line for purchase you might end up with some parents of kids you photographed having a fit you posted photos of their child on the internet without them knowing about it. You could end up with phones calls from people saying "how dare you, I did not say you could take photos of my child, me ect.., a sicko might be looking at the photos of my child, and on and on." 
I have seen this happen, thank god not to us, but it was on the news a while ago here about someone who did this.Nothing really came of it but it kinda dragged the photogs name in the mud.
 We are lucky with the events we do that on the tickets people buy to go to the event there is a blub about event photographers might be take photos of you and you buying the ticket gives them the ok to do so.
Just something to think about.
Good luck to you!


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## JimmyO (Jun 2, 2008)

Very true
Any ideas on how to avoid that?

Also, anymore input is appreciated

Im currently working on my site, especially on the pricing and services.


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## Bthornton (Jun 2, 2008)

You might want to contact the event manager to see if they have a photographer. If they are not willing to pay (and a lot of times till they know you they don't want to pay) tell them what's in it for them. Make a deal where they give you a list of things at the event they want photos of for future press releases ect.. and make a trade for free advertising, contacts, just about anything. You really end up meeting a lot of people who can bring you lots of business so it's worth it to not demand a lot of $$. It's HARD work but it pays off in the end. If they take you on ask about the disclaimer on the ticket. Most of the time there is one. We have ended up with a LOT of new customers from being an event photographer. We wear t's with our logo on it and keep tons of biz cards on us and people ask us who we are and what we do all the time. We shot a tradeshow a few weeks ago and since then it's booking us solid with people wanting baby, family, wedding, product and other event shoots. We traded photography for a booth at the show. The booth would have costs us $2000. We got a free booth to show our work. Hired some pals to man it for us and we spent 4 day photographing the show. When we photograph people at these events a lot of the time they come up and ask why are we doing so. We tell them we work for the show, give them a card and tell them to send us an email and we will have the image available for them to purchase if they wish. We get the email later and sell from there. it looks like we will even get a calendar shoot from that show. Yes it was 4 12 hour days with both of us shooting but it gets our name out there more than any other type of marketing would.
Outside of regular sessions prices for us are worked out for each event.
Hope this helps.


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## JimmyO (Jun 2, 2008)

Ok
Got a question
Im currently working on building my portfolio but i am not sure about the what i have to do to put pics of people up. I mean like what are the "rules" . Do i need their written consent to put them up?


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## Crosby (Jun 2, 2008)

JimmyO said:


> Ok
> Got a question
> Im currently working on building my portfolio but i am not sure about the what i have to do to put pics of people up. I mean like what are the "rules" . Do i need their written consent to put them up?


 
Legally, it should be ok...

Jimmy, check this thread out http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=124733&highlight=legality

Go to the end, there is some good stuff there.

If you are taking pics of crowds, it should be ok, but you could always ask some parents if it is ok to take a couple of pics of kids. Its always good to ask.


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## bblaine (Jun 2, 2008)

JimmyO said:


> Ok
> Got a question
> Im currently working on building my portfolio but i am not sure about the what i have to do to put pics of people up. I mean like what are the "rules" . Do i need their written consent to put them up?


 
do a search for model release.  there are many different kinds; minor, model, pet, etc...


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## JimmyO (Jun 2, 2008)

Thanks Guys

So I guess this will apply to all my pictures. I definetly need to look into this and also things like contracts.


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## GeorgiaOwl (Jun 2, 2008)

I think you're well on your way to a grand adventure if nothing else - but probably alot more. 

I've got a similar website set up, but for personal and financial reasons I can't launch it just yet. I just have three suggestions...

1. smaller font on the site. 
2. more pictures - action shots ? you have 2!  Get out there and shoot! 
3. Find a way to get the money to get the ads off the site - what is it, like $8 a month or something? It will improve people's opinions of your site 10000%. 


As for people placing orders and such, I've been wondering something with the coming launch of my site....maybe you guys already know - at what point do we sell enough that we start charging (and paying) tax? From the first photo sold? $100? $500? 

You kids are probably safe from the IRS, though.  

Just a thought.


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## JimmyO (Jun 2, 2008)

GeorgiaOwl said:


> I think you're well on your way to a grand adventure if nothing else - but probably alot more.
> 
> I've got a similar website set up, but for personal and financial reasons I can't launch it just yet. I just have three suggestions...
> 
> ...




Thanks for the great input, its highly appreciated. Im thinking if someone gets mad we should just play the innocent young children routine? haha

And i aggree about the ads. Once we think we have a solid business plan were gonna set up our Exposure Manager to sell our shots and pay some more to get a good solid site.


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## JimmyO (Jun 2, 2008)

And heres the link for anyone intrested:

http://beyondphotographyy.webs.com/index.htm


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## GeorgiaOwl (Jun 2, 2008)

Sounds like a plan. This " exposure manager?" How much is that running you? Or is it someone's little brother or older brother/sister/friend? 

Just wondering if he/she is getting a cut, and if you coudn't just do it yourselves? 

I used to have a site hosted by dotster.com. They were farily cheap and you can do just about anything with them, without knowing HTML. Of course, you whipper-snappers probably know all about that...they probably start teachin' that in kindergarten now!  

Seriously though...keep at it. Don't give up. Even when the cold-water brigade finds this post and comes in guns blazing to tell you how hard it is and how you probably will fail. Ignore them. If you fail...so what. At least you tried and you'll never know until ya try!

Hey BTW - I hate to tell you this, but does your URL have two y's at the end of "photogrpahy?" 


uh oh. rebuild time?!


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## JimmyO (Jun 2, 2008)

GeorgiaOwl said:


> Sounds like a plan. This " exposure manager?" How much is that running you? Or is it someone's little brother or older brother/sister/friend?
> 
> Just wondering if he/she is getting a cut, and if you coudn't just do it yourselves?
> 
> ...



Exposure manager is a website simialar to SmugMug. It will host my pics and give people the ability to order prints and such. Its like 100 bucks a year for the event photography version (compared to the $65 of the art version) and its nice becuase i just put my pics there and they do the rest, and i get a check at the end of the month.

Ya, my friend did that double y thing. BeyondPhotography was taken. I was pissed since he should have done something like BeyondPhotographyNJ. So ill see what happens. When we get a real domain we might be able to change it.


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## GeorgiaOwl (Jun 2, 2008)

Oh, I'm a moron.  I thought it was someone you guys were wanting to get in on the fun. haha. sorry. 

carry on!


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## JimmyO (Jun 2, 2008)

Haha, ya. I thought thats what you were thinkin.


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## daluke09 (Jun 3, 2008)

Hey Jimmy.  I looked over your site and I think it looks really good.  I like the idea and I was thinking about doing something similar but probably not until next summer.  I just had one critique.  You need to do a little more editing of the site.  There are some miss spelled words and grammer corrections that need to be made.  You don't want to look unprofessional and have spelling mistakes and what not.  Good luck with the venture and let us know how its going.


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## JimmyO (Jun 3, 2008)

daluke09 said:


> Hey Jimmy.  I looked over your site and I think it looks really good.  I like the idea and I was thinking about doing something similar but probably not until next summer.  I just had one critique.  You need to do a little more editing of the site.  There are some miss spelled words and grammer corrections that need to be made.  You don't want to look unprofessional and have spelling mistakes and what not.  Good luck with the venture and let us know how its going.




Thanks. I really do need to go over everything, i have some pretty bad typing habits, haha. But i know what you mean when you say it looks unprofessional. Ive seen big company's with websites with typo's, they just stick out like a sore thumb and really affect how i think about the company.


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## GeorgiaOwl (Jun 3, 2008)

/ thread takes ironic twist......


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## JimmyO (Jun 4, 2008)

Did it?


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## JimmyO (Jun 4, 2008)

Alright
So we need to change the name of our webpage. Having to make a whole need site is highly undesireable. Freewebs wants 60 dollars a year for a domain name which would be able to help me out, but i dont know if there are any cheaper options...Url forwarding?

Any help guys?


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## cdanddvdpublisher (Jun 4, 2008)

JimmyO said:


> Thanks for the great input, its highly appreciated. Im thinking if someone gets mad we should just play the innocent young children routine? haha
> 
> And i aggree about the ads. Once we think we have a solid business plan were gonna set up our Exposure Manager to sell our shots and pay some more to get a good solid site.



if you're looking at it as a business, the innocent kid routine isn't really going to help you out


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## darich (Jun 9, 2008)

JimmyO said:


> Alright
> So we need to change the name of our webpage. Having to make a whole need site is highly undesireable. Freewebs wants 60 dollars a year for a domain name which would be able to help me out, but i dont know if there are any cheaper options...Url forwarding?
> 
> Any help guys?



I'm in the UK so not sure how this will apply to the US but every ISP provides the customer with free webspace. Typically it's between 20mb and 50mb. That's tons for a photography website.
I also own my own domain and use web forwarding as you have mentioned. Basically it looks like i have my own pro site on some server somewhere but in real life it's hosted by my ISP and visitors are forwarded to it when they type my url.
The domain costs me something like £7-8 per 2 years (approx £3-4 per year) and the forwarding costs nothing - it's free.

And getting grammar and spelling right is critical. If it's wrong it looks unprofessional, lazy and silly. And that translates to people's opinion on your work.

Good luck!!


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## bigalbest (Jun 9, 2008)

How many photographers are there in your area? I only ask this because when you start a business you set yourself up as competition for the other photographers in the area (you take business away from them). After looking at all your links I would say that you are not ready to enter this business. Go get more training, attend school and/or take a job with an established studio. Customers may not know the difference but I do and it hurts when someone with a great sales pitch gives my former customers a far inferior product. I'm really trying not to sound like a jerk here because it sounds like you have a passion for this work, but you're doing a dis-service to the professional community when you jump into the business this early. To be a photographer takes determination, skill and luck. And a lot of hard knocks, including harsh criticism when you don't expect it. If you are going to be a pro someday you will be the type of person who can take it.


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## JimmyO (Jun 9, 2008)

bigalbest said:


> How many photographers are there in your area? I only ask this because when you start a business you set yourself up as competition for the other photographers in the area (you take business away from them). After looking at all your links I would say that you are not ready to enter this business. Go get more training, attend school and/or take a job with an established studio. Customers may not know the difference but I do and it hurts when someone with a great sales pitch gives my former customers a far inferior product. I'm really trying not to sound like a jerk here because it sounds like you have a passion for this work, but you're doing a dis-service to the professional community when you jump into the business this early. To be a photographer takes determination, skill and luck. And a lot of hard knocks, including harsh criticism when you don't expect it. If you are going to be a pro someday you will be the type of person who can take it.



Thanks for the input!
This is really just the start as i dont plan on taking any on a big projects yet, just little things to people in the town that know me.


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## GeorgiaOwl (Jun 27, 2008)

"miss spelled" should be "misspelled"

thus, the ironic twist. 

hey, how's the photo shootin' going?


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## mmcduffie1 (Jul 7, 2008)

your wall of words broke my eyes


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## IllegalDamage (Jul 9, 2008)

hey bro if you want I can help you setup an actual website.  I've done tons of them myself and its not hard at all... I can get you something 100% unique and professional for maybe $150, that includes hosting for a year, the template, my editing, etc... I'd have to see exactly what you want and it may be cheaper I'm not sure

Anyways, get back to me and I'll see what I can do!

By the way, I own these sites:
DoEvil.net
Ryein.com
OurParkour.com

They are all down right now (didn't pay the fees lol) but they should all be back up tomorrow afternoon or so, if you'd like an example of my work


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