# commander mode annoyance



## barleymalt (Mar 15, 2011)

Just bought my first flash unit, an SB600, and when I try to trigger it from my d90 in commander mode the sb600 is totally dominated by the cameras built in flash. From what I've understood the camera flash should only send preflash commands to trigger the flash. I've set the built in flash to -- mode under the commander menu but it's still going off at full power. Can anyone shed some light on this issue?

First photo shows both flashes going off despite the built in being set not to fire and the second photo I blocked the built in flash with my hand.


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## PhotoWrangler (Mar 15, 2011)

Go into your flash menu and set the commander mode to "--". There is a way to turn the flash completely off so that it doesn't affect exopsure.

ETA: Looks like you have the commander set properly. Do you have the SB600 set to 'remote'?

ETA: here is a page that explains how to put the SB600 in remote mode.
http://www.nikoncls.com/SB-600/sb600_cls_remote.html


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## barleymalt (Mar 15, 2011)

yeah man the second photo is lit by the remote sb600


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## PhotoWrangler (Mar 15, 2011)

barleymalt said:


> yeah man the second photo is lit by the remote sb600


 
Set group 'a' to "ttl" mode in your menu, then set your SB600 to group A as well.


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## barleymalt (Mar 15, 2011)

the problem is not the sb600 not firing, it's the commander flash firing as if it was set to TTL.


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## PhotoWrangler (Mar 15, 2011)

hmmm... you have a setting that isn't right somewhere, but I can't think of anything else at the moment


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## Garbz (Mar 15, 2011)

SB-600, needs to be set to remote, and set to the correct group and channel as well. 

D90 needs to be set to Commander in option e2, check page 188 of your manual. 

Set Built-In flash to "--" to have it fire a preflash only that communicates but doesn't appear in the exposure.
Set Group A (assuming your flash is also Group A) to TTL AA or M and apply the appropriate number to it.
Check the Channel number.

Make sure the flash is popped up when you take the photo. 


This is all that is needed for everything to work.


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## KmH (Mar 15, 2011)

The built-in will alway flash, even when set to --, because that is how it generates the infrared signal it sends to the SB-600 to make it fire. But it does so at the lowest power setting the SB-600 has available so that it adds a negligible amount of light to the scene.

Your SB-600 looks to be to far away from the figurine.

Using TTL and auto/semi-auto camera shooting modes is very much more complicated,and inconsistent, than just doing it all in manual mode.


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## barleymalt (Mar 15, 2011)

That's exactly how its set up.. and there's nothing subtle about the light from the popup flash..take a look at the first photo. I guess I'll just have to get the IR filter from nikon.


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## Garbz (Mar 16, 2011)

Something's not right. The internal flash doesn't fire at lowest power. It fires BEFORE the exposure. 

If it's working as intended you should be able to see that the internal flash fired only ever in something as highly reflective as a mirror. 

In any case if you do have a problem with the flash there's no need to spend a fortune on the IR filter. Just go find an old developed roll of film and cut the film leader off and tape it to your flash (the black bit at the start of a developed roll). Cheap IR filter.


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## PhotoWrangler (Mar 16, 2011)

I tend to think it's operator error in this case. Thousands of Nikon users use the CLS system daily without issue. Spending money on the IR filter isn't going to help.

Do you have a local strobist group you could meet with for instruction?

You definitely have something not set right, or you aren't using the equipment or settings right.


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## barleymalt (Mar 16, 2011)

I know how to make a setting in a menu. I've googled it and there are many other nikon users who have the same problem. What other setting could it be other than setting the popup flash to -- mode?

The SG-31R from nikon is only 8 bucks though and was designed specifically for this purpose so It must be a common issue.


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## PhotoWrangler (Mar 16, 2011)

barleymalt said:


> I know how to make a setting in a menu. I've googled it and there are many other nikon users who have the same problem. What other setting could it be other than setting the popup flash to -- mode?
> 
> The SG-31R from nikon is only 8 bucks though and was designed specifically for this purpose so It must be a common issue.



Well, the figurine you shot is closer to the camera than you would probably shoot. When shooting from a normal length, the pre-flash that commands the remote wont have any effect.

The only other thing that I can think of is that you are shooting higher than 1/250 and you dont have the SB600 in FP so that it lengthens the burst of light.


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## benhasajeep (Mar 16, 2011)

Are you in rear curtain sync? If you are in rear curtain sync, you will catch the preflashes in the shot. The preflashes are brighter in rear curtain sync. And you will catch the preflash, especially if your close to the subject. Camera is acting normal.

Edit: Found it. Page 190 of the D90 manual. About in the middle under commander mode. Suggests using the IR shield when using rear curtain sync. Mentions the brighter preflash. Knew I saw it somewhere.  Actually found it in my d300 manual.  Then in the D90.  I think its the same for all Nikon CLS cameras.


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## barleymalt (Mar 16, 2011)

Thanks for the suggestions but the figurine was about 4 feet away from the camera and it's completely flooded with on camera flash. Exactly like it would look if it was set to TTL. I'm not shooting in rear curtain sync or faster than 1/200th.


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## KmH (Mar 16, 2011)

barleymalt said:


> The SG-31R from nikon is only 8 bucks though and was designed specifically for this purpose so It must be a common issue.


No, that is not what the SG-31R was designed for. The SG-31R was designed specifically to be used with CLS and Nikons R1 Closeup Speedlight System.

Good luck!


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## Garbz (Mar 16, 2011)

Turn off your flash completely, and play with the camera settings until such a time where your internal flash fires, but you don't see anything in the picture. The exposure should be completely black unless you're photographing a reflective subject or are using silly high ISOs and low apertures.


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## whiplash23 (Mar 16, 2011)

The Nikon manuals do a poor job of describing how to do commander mode.  I have a D90 and use 2 SB-600s in commander mode frequently so I'll try to help.  One of two things is going on here:
1) Your camera and/or flash is not functioning properly and needs to be sent back for warranty service. 
2) You don't have something set quite right.

While what you describe sounds correct, I still suspect #2 is more likely given how convoluted the instructions are.  First, know that every setting you change in commander mode must be confirmed before exiting the menu screen, or it will revert to the last known setting.  I boof flash power settings this way all of the time.

You want the on camera flash set to -- as you say you have, but make sure you confirm this choice with the center button (circle in the middle of the 4-way toggle).  Then you want to set the power of the SB-600 in group A.  I typically use manual as my flash isn't always the same distance from the camera as the subject.

On the SB-600, you have to hold down the left and bottom buttons to get it into commander mode, the turn the mode ON.  It should display the group and channel number, which need to match your camera settings.

If you have done all of the above, I suggest calling Nikon customer service and having one of them walk you through the procedure.  If you still can't get it, send 'em in for service!


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## kundalini (Mar 16, 2011)

whiplash23 said:


> On the SB-600, you have to hold down the left *(zoom)* and bottom button *(minus)* to get it into [_commander mode] _*the flash custom settings menu*, *then turn the mode ON for wireless remote operations*. It should display the group and channel number, which need to match your camera settings.



The bolded may be the key here.  The red is my edit.  To have the SB600 off camera, the squiggly line needs to read ON.  I haven't used CLS for a while, but it worked like a charm for me tonight.  See page 52 (#1) of your flash manual.


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## Garbz (Mar 17, 2011)

Quite possibly. Though my experience (accidental) with CLS is that if the flashes are either off, or not set to CLS remote, or set to the wrong channel, AND the internal flash is set to "--", the picture should be pitch black, not exposed by the internal flash. I wonder this has changed on the D90 from earlier models so the internal files if no slave is detected...


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## kundalini (Mar 17, 2011)

Garbz said:


> ....... AND the internal flash is set to "--", the picture should be pitch black, not exposed by the internal flash. ...


Nearly. The exception is with reflective surfaces. There is some residual light that will be seen.

Backlit by my monitor. Shutter speed 1/250s, aperture f/8.

*No Flash *



 


*Built-in set to (--)*






*TTL*


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## Garbz (Mar 18, 2011)

kundalini said:


> Garbz said:
> 
> 
> > ....... AND the internal flash is set to "--", the picture should be pitch black, not exposed by the internal flash. ...
> ...


[/QUOTE]

Dammit I've said that 3 times now, and the one time I leave it off you call me out


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## Stradawhovious (Mar 18, 2011)

My issue with the CLS isn't in setting the popup to "--" or setting the squiggly line to "on"

I't in remembering to se the SB-600 and the camera to the same channel.  The SB-600 generally defaults to channel 3, and the camera to channel 1.  I don't recall EVER setting up the CLS and remembering to set both to the same channel. It usually takes a cople of shots with me saying (to myself of course) "Why the hell isn't this thing working?!?!?" or something to that extent.

All things considered, if your camera works, and the SB-600 works, and there isn't a considerable amount of ambient light overpowering your popup flash, it's more than likely operator error.  When everything is set up so the flash unit and camera can communicate with each other, it will work, and work well.

Good luck!


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## Garbz (Mar 19, 2011)

Doesn't the camera generally remember the last settings used? The D200 does. If so set the camera to channel 3


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## DirtyDFeckers (Mar 19, 2011)

barleymalt said:


> I know how to make a setting in a menu. I've googled it and there are many other nikon users who have the same problem. What other setting could it be other than setting the popup flash to -- mode?
> 
> The SG-31R from nikon is only 8 bucks though and was designed specifically for this purpose so It must be a common issue.


 

If you set your pop up flash to M instead of --, it will allow you to control the output of the popup.  I was able to turn mine down to 1/128th of full power, which at that point, doesn't contribute to the light in the image.


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## Garbz (Mar 20, 2011)

As opposed to not firing at all how it should be? Just incase anyone is unclear here is how CLS is supposed to work.

This sequence of events assumes the internal flash is set to "--", and Group A is set to TTL.

1. Shutter is pressed
2. Aperture shuts
3. Onboard flash sends out a signal which tells all flashes that Group A is set to TTL and nothing else.
4. Camera's TTL meter is now on.
5. Group A fires a preflash.
6. Camera processes this information to determine the total output required for each Group.
7. Onboard flash sends out a signal which tells all flashes that Group A should fire at a the calculated power level after a specific delay.
8. Mirror flips up and shutter opens.
9. Group A fires, Onboard flash does not. 
10. Shutter closes, mirror flips down and you have a preview.

The correct operation of CLS where you don't want the onboard to contribute is to set it to "--" and not M at 1/128th. If you need to set it to 1/128th to get this to work then something is wrong, either a setting, or a bug in the firmware.


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## DirtyDFeckers (Mar 20, 2011)

Garbz said:


> As opposed to not firing at all how it should be? Just incase anyone is unclear here is how CLS is supposed to work.
> 
> This sequence of events assumes the internal flash is set to "--", and Group A is set to TTL.
> 
> ...


 

I stand corrected.  Thanks for the information.


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## CNCO (Apr 11, 2011)

i have a d80 and i am running into the same problems as well. i thought it would be easy but the on camera flash is very strong and it does dominate the remote. yes i have the settings as described.


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