# First wedding...$?



## N'Kolor (Jan 15, 2008)

Okay, so I have had someone contact me that would like me to photograph their wedding.  I have requested more info as far as location, times and how large of a wedding.  Currently, I do not have two things that I think might be important and if they are, then I will just turn them down.  They understand that I am new to weddings, so that is out of the way.

The items I am missing are a back-up camera body and an assistant photographer.

What do I currently have?

Nikon D300
Nikkor 24-70 f2.8
Nikkor 70-200 f2.8
Nikkor 50 f1.8
Nikon SB-800 Flash
Tons of cards and extra batteries.

I don't know anything about contracts but I know I want one so I need to find one online that I can use as a guide or something.  I am also going to do engagement photos for them so that will need to be incorporated in the price.

Please help me think of anything I may need, what kind of pricing I should give the couple...so on.

Thanks in advance!
Mike


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## Alpha (Jan 15, 2008)

Don't even think about it without a backup body and an assistant.


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## N'Kolor (Jan 15, 2008)

Well I have an assistant, my wife...she is actually a great assistant.  What I meant was a second photographer.

Since I shoot Nikon any suggestions on a BU body?


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## EOS_JD (Jan 15, 2008)

You can do it without an assistant. Hard work but it can be done ( i do it alone mostly)

Backup body however is something that really should be considered seriously. You might get by but it's a risk...... 

Can you borrow one? Can you rent?


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## Snyder (Jan 15, 2008)

I wouldn&#8217;t do a wedding without a contract, business license, and its a good idea if you are new to wedding photography an assistant will do ya some good. Im using a cheap D40 as my back up with a long lense on it.


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## Alpha (Jan 15, 2008)

Renting a backup body will set you back about $100/day. Roll it into your fee. And find a second photographer.


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## Big Mike (Jan 15, 2008)

Back up body for sure.  Maybe you could just rent on for the day.

You will also want a back up flash.

You might want a flash bracket and TTL cord.

Really, the best thing you can have for shooting a wedding...is knowledge and experience.  That's why it's not recommended to be the primary photographer, without prior wedding experience. 

That being said, everyone has to start somewhere...just be prepared.


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## N'Kolor (Jan 15, 2008)

Well I am actually looking into working with a photographer now but not on this one.  The photographer I talked to is supposed to email me the dates of his weddings so I can check him out and possibly start assisting him.

As for this wedding, the couple doesn't have a lot of money so that is where I come in...I am fairly cheap but have no idea what to charge.

A back-up body...sure!  I have no problems in looking at a BU body, but if it is strictly back-up then do I need anything that is great?  Or would something like a D70 work?  I would love to get a D200 as a BU but that is a little expensive right now...even used ones.

I can check around tonight at my photography class and see if anyone is interested in assisting me...paid of course.


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## Big Mike (Jan 15, 2008)

> A back-up body...sure! I have no problems in looking at a BU body, but if it is strictly back-up then do I need anything that is great? Or would something like a D70 work? I would love to get a D200 as a BU but that is a little expensive right now...even used ones.


A lot of photographers (myself included) like to use two cameras while shooting a wedding.  That way, you can have your 70-200 on one camera and your 24-70 on the other....you can cover just about anything without changing lenses.

Also, maybe look into a wider lens.  24mm is just no wide enough on a crop body....for me anyway.


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## N'Kolor (Jan 15, 2008)

Yeah, I understand what you mean on wider but I think the 24 is wide enough for me, but later I do plan to add a 12-24 but can't right now...already have too much invested and I need some return.

I like the idea of running to camera's but that means to brackets, two flash sync cords and two flashes...right?  That seems like it will get expensive.

If I get a body, what do you recommend?


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## Big Mike (Jan 15, 2008)

> I like the idea of running to camera's but that means to brackets, two flash sync cords and two flashes...right? That seems like it will get expensive.


I wouldn't necessarily put the 70-200 with a bracket.  I personally like to shoot without flash when using a 70-200 F2.8 IS.



> If I get a body, what do you recommend?


Well, I'm a Canon guy...so I don't know the nuances of the different Nikon bodies.
It might be cheapest to go with a used D70 or D50...or a new D40.  
I'm not sure how similar the D300 is to the other bodies...but one theory is that you should get a 2nd body that is very similar to your main...that way you don't have to think about different controls when you pick it up.


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## Alpha (Jan 15, 2008)

N'Kolor said:


> As for this wedding, the couple doesn't have a lot of money so that is where I come in...I am fairly cheap but have no idea what to charge.



When people say this, the whole thing usually turns out to be bad news bears. Pick a reasonable price that well-covers your time and expenses, and stick with it.


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## N'Kolor (Jan 15, 2008)

$500, includes album, pics and engagement photos?


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## jols (Jan 15, 2008)

that sounds fair

i do it as a hobby and charge between 250   to   350   english pounds for pcs and album 

there are lots of threads on here that can help.


just go to the search bar and type in


contracts

weddings 

ect


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## Big Mike (Jan 15, 2008)

Try to figure out how much time you will spend on this project/job.  Shooting time should be easy but also include your processing time...which may be two, three or 4 times as long as your shooting time.  Don't forget travel time, for the wedding and for any meetings you might have with them beforehand.  Your time per hour isn't going to be very much.

You have a sizable investment in gear, so consider that...plus anything expendable that you might use.  Rental fees etc.

If you are trying to start a business...I'd tell you to charge more.  You might make very little money on this job...but maybe the experience you get, will be more valuable in the long run.


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## N'Kolor (Jan 15, 2008)

You are right Big Mike.  I just found out more news, its in July...lol  For some weird reason I thought it was in March but oh well...more time to get ready.

By then I should have a backup body, two flash brackets, two flashes and so on.  I have a few small portrait jobs in the coming weeks so that will help pay for the above.  I might also find another photog to help.  I might also have experience as an assistant so I will discuss fees a little further down the line.


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## Peanuts (Jan 15, 2008)

Remeber to factor in:

Time (shooting, consulting, and post... post is going to be at least double that of the wedding if you edit all of them)
Gas
Wear and tear on your cameras/computer/joints (okay.. kind of kidding about the last one )

That is the bare minimum to look into

I would probably recommend if they want to go cheap and you are willing to accomodate that is to offer the prints in an album as a seperate price, perhaps $200 more (which is a steal).  There is no point going through all of the trouble of finding an album, printing the images, arranging them, etc, etc, when they could do that themselves.

Just a thought.


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## JIP (Jan 15, 2008)

If you have never done a wedding before you should not do this.  I think you are asking for trouble wanting to charge someone $500+ for a wedding when you have never even done one yourself.


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## emogirl (Jan 15, 2008)

if you have never done a wedding, you shouldnt be charging anything but cost!  if they are getting you cuz they figure you are cheap...then fine, but lay all your cards on the table.  YOu dont need an assistant or a second shooter....but you must have backup camera.


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## N'Kolor (Jan 15, 2008)

What would you consider cost?  Just the cost of printing and the album?  If so, that's crazy.  I may have never done a wedding before today but that doesn't make me worth zero.  Also, please don't forget this wedding is in July and I am supposed to be assisting a photographer in the coming weeks.

So, this may not be my first wedding but it will probably be the first wedding that I am the sole photographer at.

I appreciate everyone's comments...please keep them coming!


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## emogirl (Jan 16, 2008)

chalk it up to experience...yes, costs of prints, batteries, albums, wear & tear, gas...

experience is worth its weight in gold


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## JIP (Jan 16, 2008)

emogirl said:


> if you have never done a wedding, you shouldnt be charging anything but cost! if they are getting you cuz they figure you are cheap...then fine, but lay all your cards on the table. YOu dont need an assistant or a second shooter....but you must have backup camera.


 

Well said...


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## N'Kolor (Feb 19, 2008)

Okay guys I'm back!  I shot two weddings this weekend...both times as the second photog.  I really enjoyed myself and I now work for two different photogs.  The one I went out with this weekend is amazing...I learned so much.  I also attended a 4 day workshop on weddings last week.

The two weddings were completely different.  One was in a huge church with 10 bridesmaids and 10 groomsman and a couple of hundred attendees.  The second was an outdoor wedding with no bridesmaids or groomsman and there was only 14 people (including the bride and groom).

I have all of the picture on my computer at home (I am at work) but I think I did a great job.  I do have one picture with me so I will post it, let me know what you think...it was my favorite.  There was no flash allowed in the church and we had to remain at the back of the church.







Thanks!
Mike


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## EOS_JD (Feb 19, 2008)

I'm not overly keen on the flare on the bottom right of the image but the image does have a nice feeling to it


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## N'Kolor (Feb 19, 2008)

Yeah, I actually took that out in post but posted the wrong image...here it is cleaned up.






Thanks!
Mike


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## nicfargo (Feb 19, 2008)

please tell me you backed up those images on your computer.  Hopefully the ones on your computer are not the only copies.  When I'm done shooting something as important as a wedding I put the images on my computers HDD, and external HDD, and burn them to a DVD...it may be overkill but I'd absolutely kill myself if I lost someone's photos from a wedding.


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## N'Kolor (Feb 19, 2008)

Currently, they are on my computers hard drive, my external hard drive and my favorite 188 are on a DVD...is that enough? lol


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## JIP (Feb 19, 2008)

While I am not TOTALLY excited about the image you posted I think you are taking an excellent approach to this whole thing.  The seminars and working as an assistant are the best way to learn everything you can before getting thrown into the water feet first.  One thing and I am sure you have this figured out already, at the price you are charging an assistant or second shooter is pretty much out of the question.  I imagine you have your feet wet enough now to know how to cover the wedding alone and really, it is best to learn how you work alone before you start having to boss someone around and have a say in what they are shooting.


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## N'Kolor (Feb 20, 2008)

Things are really picking up for me.  Currently I have 4 weddings in March to shoot and I am the second photog on all 4.  I also have another photog that is sending me his dates so I will be busy.

I do have someone that wants to hire me for October and I do believe that is far enough out and I might take it.  Depending on how large the wedding will be, I might get another shooter but for now, I will just take my wife along to assist.  By then I should also have a back-up body.


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## XtremeElemenT (Feb 20, 2008)

:thumbup:  Thats awesome you are getting many opportunities to learn wedding photography with many different photographers. Im very glad to hear you are achieving much success and your an O-town floridian like me as well  I see you are looking for a second photographer and i would love to help you out, I would even do it for free just for the experience and knowledge But i have no where close the gear needed for that lol.  Good luck on your future wedding events


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## N'Kolor (Feb 20, 2008)

Hey man, I would love to have some help, maybe we could meet up sometime and just go shooting...dunno.  I went to a seminar that you might want to look in too.  It had a mock-up engagement and wedding on the last two days.

http://www.kevinkeelan.com/LandingPageImages/workshop.jpg

Either way, PM me your info.


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## THORHAMMER (Feb 20, 2008)

Alpha said:


> Renting a backup body will set you back about $100/day. Roll it into your fee. And find a second photographer.



calumet rents the 20D for like 40 bucks


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## N'Kolor (Feb 20, 2008)

I shoot Nikon .  I am considering going BACK to Canon and getting the 5D but man I have invested so much in my Nikon stuff, just wish I would have understood Full Frame a little more.


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## Rhys (Feb 20, 2008)

N'Kolor said:


> I shoot Nikon .  I am considering going BACK to Canon and getting the 5D but man I have invested so much in my Nikon stuff, just wish I would have understood Full Frame a little more.



Rather than do that, why not look into the D3? That's full frame and you won't have to change your kit.

As far as weddings go, I carry my XT as a backup and use my 30D for the photography. I also carry a Tamron 17-35 and Tamron 28-75 although I do the majority of the shooting with a Canon 17-85 IS. I have several Canon flashes but for future weddings will use my 580EX2 with another 580EX2 as a backup.

I don't use long lenses. I think they're too much of a compromise unless I get something like the 70-200 f2.8 and pay the weight penalty. I don't use an assistant or a second shooter.

Currently I'm investigating alternative carrying methods for my gear such as a system harness.


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## N'Kolor (Feb 20, 2008)

Yeah, I need a D200 for now I guess so I have a back-up body.  I will also be picking up an inexpensive mid range lens in case.  I will probably just keep my D300 and upgrade to the D3 at a later date.


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## N'Kolor (Feb 21, 2008)

Okay, picked up a D200 with a battery grip a little bit ago.  Now I have a back-up body!


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## crazy_dragonlady (Feb 24, 2008)

I have noticed that you asked specifically about a contract and no one replied with any specifics.  I assume that you have done a search on Google for "Photography contract"?  I just did that search and it came up with a bunch of links specific to weddings.  

If you don't do anything else for yourself please, make sure that you have EVERYTHING in writing!  I am a business owner and I have been taken advantage of in the beginning because we didn't have a contract.  Now I make sure that EVERYTHING included in what we do for the customer is included in writing... with a separate price page for any extras that might be involved.

I don't know what to tell you as far as pricing goes as I have no idea what to charge but I think that the contract is the most important thing from a business standpoint.

ttfn
CDL.


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## N'Kolor (Feb 25, 2008)

Yeah, I got a contract from a lady here...I am going to have the other photog look at it and compare to his that a lawyer did.  Thanks though!


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## N'Kolor (Feb 25, 2008)

Two more of my favorite photos from the first wedding.













Mike


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## Meysha (Feb 25, 2008)

They're gorgeous!

It's funny, you might get some people here pick them apart and say,,, nah there's an arm sticking in the first one - no good. Or the shadows on the girls arm in the second photo are all funky. But I don't think it matters in these photos. The bride and groom are going to love them because they know the people in them! That sentimental value is great!


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## N'Kolor (Feb 25, 2008)

I agree!  For portraits that wouldn't even be a factor...I would make sure of it.  These images were both shot in a dimly lit room and I had an alien bee and a vivitar bouncing running on a pocket wizards so shadows were hard to beat.  As for the two girls walking...I happened to turn around and see them and just snapped, I didn't have time to ask the guy to move...lol

But I know what you mean.


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## N'Kolor (Mar 3, 2008)

Wedding #3 down!!!  Let me know what you think of these images I shot.  Again, I was the second photog on this wedding.





















C&C Welcome!


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## JIP (Mar 3, 2008)

Congratulations well done!!!


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## crazy_dragonlady (Mar 3, 2008)

I really like the last three of the bride and groom... something about that first one just doesn't "do it" for me if ya know what I mean... nothing wrong with the photo at all just something about it I don't like as much as I like the rest.  The rest of them are really nice.  And, it's great that you're getting so much experience!  The more the better eh?  Apparently though, you don't need that much! 

ttfn
CDL.


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## schumionbike (Mar 3, 2008)

I think the white balance is a little off, I'm not so sure though.  I think the composition is pretty nice though.  I really like number 2 and number 4, they're favorite.  It doesn't hurt that she is a really good looking bride either =)


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## Meysha (Mar 5, 2008)

I love them all. the first especially!

Shame she doesn't smile more though.


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## N'Kolor (Mar 5, 2008)

Oh she does!







This is my favorite accessory shot from the wedding.







Thanks!
Mike


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## N'Kolor (Mar 11, 2008)

Well folks, I am reporting back.  I have shot 4 weddings now and I truly love it!  I have another wedding this Saturday and I booked my first solo wedding for mid May.  I am charging $650 and that includes 100+/- 4x6 prints and my time for the day of the wedding and all of my PP time.

I should probably have about 10-14 weddings shot by the time I take my first job.  I have purchased my on-the-go lighting and I am just waiting on it to arrive.

Anyway, thanks everyone for your feedback...I really appreciate it.


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## N'Kolor (Mar 11, 2008)

Oh yeah, almost forgot...got my site up and running.  I heard it takes a long time for blu to get to sites but I was a little premature.  I still have a lot to upload...portraiture, engagements and commercial.

www.mikerichardsphotography.net


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## JIP (Mar 11, 2008)

Excellent work I think you are well on your way...


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## N'Kolor (Mar 11, 2008)

Thank you JIP!!!


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## N'Kolor (Mar 16, 2008)

So, 5th wedding done!!!

I can't believe how far I have come in such a short period. I have another wedding this weekend, and the following and who knows for April but I am sure I will be booked!

I tried to do something a little different in these two photos and I really liked them, let me know what you think.











Thanks!
Mike


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## elsaspet (Mar 17, 2008)

Holy crap man!  Excellent work.  Don't work cheap.  I mean that.
Charge for your market area, and take every dime you profit and put it into equipment, marketing, and a killer website.
You'll do well.


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## EOS_JD (Mar 17, 2008)

Love your work although not so keen on the last two.


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## N'Kolor (Mar 17, 2008)

elsaspet...WOW, thank you!  I am such a fan of your work and to receive positive feedback from you is wonderful!  I actually have a nice website which I am working on everyday, check it out and let me know what you think.

www.mikerichardsphotography.net


EOS-JD...I am not a super huge fan of those images either but I thought they turned out pretty good for what they were.


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## elsaspet (Mar 17, 2008)

Hi I just went to your website and it is healthy and beautiful. :mrgreen:

I only see two things I would change:

Your logo is great, but I'd show a photo on the splashscreen with your logo incorporated.  Hit them with those beautiful photos right away.

The second thing is that nowhere that I saw have you listed your area.  List it all over the place so the search engines can find it.  It will get you higher in the search ratings.

Good job!


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## N'Kolor (Mar 17, 2008)

Thank you for the GREAT feedback.  I have added Orlando, FL to my page title for all pages.  I also added Orlando, Florida to the contact page.  Also, the metatags have Orlando, Florida and a ton of other keywords.

I like the idea of having the splash page incorporate an image and I may do that...I actually had that on the site originally but I liked it to be a little clean but I do understand and I will try to figure an image that is fit for the homepage.


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## N'Kolor (Mar 17, 2008)

So I didn't realize it but I saw the video today of me in action...I really don't want to show the video so I will just show a pic from a seminar I attended.


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## N'Kolor (Mar 31, 2008)

So wedding 6 is down...WOW, can't believe it.  I will be hitting 10 by the end of April and probably around 11 by the time I shoot my first solo wedding.

I bought a new lens today, I had planned to go back to Canon and get a 5D.  Last night I bought a 85 1.2L, 24-70 2.8L, 70-200 2.8L and a 50 1.8, and a couple of flashes and was gonna sell/trade my D300 to get a 5D.  But changed my mind this morning and figured out an issue within the settings of my D300 and now I love my Nikon again...lol

Well here is a shot from the wedding this weekend:






Thanks!
Mike


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## Los Angeles (Apr 1, 2008)

I just looked at your site.  Really nice and profesional looking


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## N'Kolor (Apr 14, 2008)

Another wedding down...


















Let me know what you think.

Mike


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## SS3 (Apr 14, 2008)

Very nice

I love your website


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## N'Kolor (Apr 14, 2008)

Thanks!


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## elsaspet (Apr 15, 2008)

N'Kolor said:


> $500, includes album, pics and engagement photos?


 
  (Just saw this!)

Are you aware that an el cheepo album will run you about 150, the pix about another 100? Not including your long wedding day...seperate engagement session, and at least 12 hours of processing? (Assume you do nothing more than shoot and burn).
And you are talking about renting another body and flash.

Better yet, just hand them a hundred bucks and consider it square.


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## N'Kolor (Apr 15, 2008)

Yeah, that $500 was before I even got into this really.  Now I charge $1300 for 6 hrs, an engagement session, an assistant (for both) and both burned to DVD.

I also went back to Canon and I have a back-up body, flashes, so on.

***what do you think of my photography***

Mike


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## elsaspet (Apr 16, 2008)

I think it's lovely!


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## RKW3 (Apr 16, 2008)

Excellent stuff! It must be hard work being a wedding photographer, sheesh.


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## Rhys (Apr 16, 2008)

I did my 1st wedding free and gave them a DVD of full-sized JPEG images.

I learned a lot from that wedding.

I now have a couple griping that $300 per hour (minimum 2 hours) is too much! Hmm I even have a $100 off coupon for weddings costing over $1200 and $50 off weddings costing over $900 and $25 off weddings costing over $600!


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## N'Kolor (Apr 16, 2008)

Yeah its hard to prove to a bride your worth but remember, one day brides will pay and you will need to raise your prices to lower the amount of bookings per year.  I am hoping for that day.


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## elsaspet (Apr 17, 2008)

Rhys said:


> I did my 1st wedding free and gave them a DVD of full-sized JPEG images.
> 
> I learned a lot from that wedding.
> 
> I now have a couple griping that $300 per hour (minimum 2 hours) is too much! Hmm I even have a $100 off coupon for weddings costing over $1200 and $50 off weddings costing over $900 and $25 off weddings costing over $600!


 
Hi Rhys,
I haven't looked at your website (I'm just assuming it's nice stuff), but here is something I learned EARLY on.
If you are cheap, you get cheapo brides.  Cheapo brides are the zillas of the industry, because in their mind, $500 is the world.  You will never work harder in your life, and you will never have a satisfied bride.
I could take my same exact shooting style, shoot a $500 wedding, and I can promise you that all I would here from the couple is bitching.

One of the first things I did within three months of starting out was to DOUBLE my pricing.  Same photo samples.  Nothing changed but the price.  The phone rang off the hook, and the brides I started getting were crazy sweet and appreciative.

I know it's a scary thing.  Believe me.  But here is what you do.  Keep raising the pricing until the phone stops ringing.  Then back it off by $200.  Wait two weeks, and if the phone isn't ringing, do it again until it does start ringing.  Once the offers start coming in again, raise it by $200 every 3-6 months, until the phone stops ringing again.

I started out 4 years ago at $900 w/ proof prints and album included.  Now, I'm a bit higher than that.:lmao:  The phone is still ringing, and I'm still following my own advice.

Try it and you will see what I mean.


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## Rhys (Apr 17, 2008)

I'm going to have to adjust my packages. I'm at $300 per hour with a minimum of 2 hours at the moment.


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## elsaspet (Apr 17, 2008)

Yeah, that is crazy cheap.  All you will get is nightmare brides with lousy locations at that price.  You can't build a portfolio with that kind of stuff.

Charge a minimum of $1500 bucks.  That is well in line with the industry.  You can choose to do shoot and burn, or shoot with an album at that price to stay competitive.  I don't need to tell you that your photos will be the final word on that.
Happy shooting!


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## Rhys (Apr 17, 2008)

I just spoke today with an advertising agent. My God she didn't half have oral diarrhea! She was trying to convince me that advertising in a bi-annual magazine was better than advertising in a monthly. What a load of nonsense. Nobody's going to look twice at a magazine that's more than 6 weeks old! Not only that but it was horrendously expensive too. I would pay maybe (if I was feeling very generous $20 for a full page advert in a magazine like that) but certainly not $2,000 for 1/6th of a page!

Meanwhile, back on planet Earth I'm looking into guerrilla marketing - guys in turbans with kalazhnikovs brandishing signs saying "buy or die"  Seriously, I'm more in favour of sandwich boards now. They're a one-off cost that can be used when required.


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## N'Kolor (Apr 17, 2008)

I just raised my price to $1800 for a shoot and burn for all day.  I think I will throw in a 24 side willowbook for $2000 but I am waiting on my willowbook to get here to make sure I like them.


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## AprilRamone (Apr 17, 2008)

Cindy's advice about pricing is right on.
I swear, my biggest complainers are the ones who pay the least!  My cheapest package is $1200 right now and I already think it includes too much and am going to totally revamp them for next year.  (I'll feel more justified experience-wise as I'll have done about 10 more weddings before they go up).


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## Jimbob69 (Apr 17, 2008)

Very interesting approaches. I wonder how different the markets are each side the pond. Refreshing to see such a confident approach to the market. In recent years the UK has seen a bit of a bun fight for the low end of the market not with just new togs entering the market but weekend warriors who work in accounts monday to friday, setting very poor precedents and some, as you say, getting burned by the bridezillas. It's still going on to some extent.
So I wonder how the other end of the UK market is going? My experience is that more and more people are heading for the sunnier, tasteful climates of Tuscany, Umbria, Provence etc, and have the bank balances, taste and good manners to bring an end to the bun fight at the other end of the market. 
N'Kolor, just an observation, a constructive one to you I hope, in my humble oppinion your earlier work showed more imagination and confidence. The style is more appealing , more relaxed, was this when you were the 2nd Tog? I'm guessing so.


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## Rhys (Apr 17, 2008)

OK. Here're my new prices. How does this look?

*On site:*

Portaits of one person $100.
Portraits of several individuals $75 each.

Portraits of a group $150.
Portraits of several groups $125 per group.

Family celebrations - birthdays, parties,  family reunions, Graduations etc $800 for 3 hours coverage.

Religious occasions - Christening, Bar Mitzvas, Funerals, Confirmations etc $900 for 3 hours coverage.

Legal photography - starts at $700 for 4 hours coverage.

Commercial photography - starts at $1,000 for 5 hours coverage.

Documentary photography - starts at $500 for 3 hours coverage.

Weddings - $1,200 for 4 hours coverage.

*In a full studio *- add $50 per hour.
 *Photograph delivery options:*

CD/DVD of high-resolution JPEG images.

Prints - ordered through us.  We can also provide most other photo merchandise - please ask.
Online delivery - we upload to a password secured file-sharing website from which you can view and order prints directly.


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## Lacey Anne (Apr 18, 2008)

Watching your progression is very cool. Your thread has been very helpful to me as well.


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## N'Kolor (Apr 18, 2008)

Lacey...thats great to hear! 

I can't believe how much I am truly loving wedding photography.  I am hoping one day that weddings will be my primary income.  Right now I shoot pretty much 40 hrs a week, some weeks less and on those weeks I don't have a lot to shoot, I do some web stuff for a company local to me.  Weddings are generally a lot of fun, especially once you get to know the couple and you can sort of enjoy the day with them.


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## N'Kolor (Apr 22, 2008)

Hey guys, another wedding down and I have another one on Saturday.  Visit my site, I made some changes and let me know what you think.  I also added pics to my site and my blog, let me know what you think of those.


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## msf (Apr 29, 2008)

Hey N'Kolor, how did your last wedding go?

You seem to be getting alot of weddings, are you doing any marketing?


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## N'Kolor (May 8, 2008)

10 weddings down!  It is crazy around here lately.  I could shoot second on a wedding this weekend but I need a break so I passed but I have another wedding next week, its a solo wedding.

I also just ordered a new camera.  At the last wedding I used my 5D with an 85 1.2L and the damn thing would NOT focus in the low-light...it just tracked and tracked!  The room was candle-lit, out doors in a tent...very cool.  The 85 was a rental, thankfully!  I purchased a Canon 1D Mark III for the rugged body and super fast AF!  Plus I think I got a super deal!

Once I get my mkIII, I will be selling my 5D w/grip.


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## shawnxstl (May 8, 2008)

love the site and the pictures.

good job man.


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## N'Kolor (May 9, 2008)

Thanks Shawn...I have two real nice weddings that I need to put up on the site...a beach wedding and a cool lakeside wedding.


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## JDHoward (May 10, 2008)

N'Kolor,

Congrats on your budding business.

I Just came across the thread and wanted to ask you couple questions.  I'm looking to get into wedding photography myself (wanting to go the second shooter route).  How did you find the photographers you shoot second for and how did you approach them to become a second shooter.  Did you take samples, a resume, list of equipment, etc.?  I'm wanting to go talk to a few local photographers soon but have hesitated because I'm not sure how to approach it.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks.


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## Sontizzle (May 11, 2008)

JDHoward said:


> N'Kolor,
> 
> Congrats on your budding business.
> 
> ...


i was going to ask the same thing. i would also like to know.


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## N'Kolor (May 12, 2008)

I have to say...I am LUCKY!

When I started having interest in wedding photography, I had no idea of what to do!!!  Seriously, I was lost but I was really interested and was ready to do whatever I needed to in order to shoot second for someone...anyone!

Well, I decided to call the guy who shot my wedding and he actually hooked me up!  He told me to attend a wedding photography workshop here in Florida that was taking place within a couple of weeks from when I called.  He talked to his friend (the guy running the workshop) and they took care of all expenses or I would have needed to come up with $1200.

I went to the workshop and the photographer really liked me, I guess.  He invited me to shoot a wedding with him on a Saturday and he said that he was impressed so he asked me to join him the next day (Sunday).  Since then, the guy who shot my wedding and the photographer at the workshop have invited me to a wedding every weekend.  They actually have me scheduled out for a few months...lol

I am not real sure what to suggest for you guys...maybe try what I did?  I do have to say, when I expressed my interest, both photographers asked what equipment I had...at that time I had a D300, 24-70 2.8, 70-200 2.8 and a 50 1.8...plus all the other accessories.  I actually had better equipment that the guy who shot my wedding...lol

Good luck to you guys!

Mike


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## Dave127 (May 15, 2008)

N'Kolor said:


> I have to say...I am LUCKY!
> 
> When I started having interest in wedding photography, I had no idea of what to do!!! Seriously, I was lost but I was really interested and was ready to do whatever I needed to in order to shoot second for someone...anyone!
> 
> ...


 
Thanks you just answered my questions


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## N'Kolor (May 16, 2008)

Cool!

So I figured that I would take a quick shot of my equipment in my thinktank bag and figured it would make a cool post. So here it is.







1. 16-35 2.8L II EF
2. 24-70 2.8L EF
3. 1D Mark III Charger
4. Raincoat for bag
5. Extra battery for 1D Mark III
6. SB-28 Flash
7. 30D Back-up body
8. 1D Mark III
9. 3 Pocketwizards (1 transmitter & 2 transceivers) transmitter is mounted to straight bracket.
10. Two 580EX II Flash units
11. 50 1.4 EF
12. 100 2.8 EF Macro
13. 70-200 2.8L IS EF
14. Vivitar 285HV Flash Unit
15. Vivitar 285HV Flash Unit

All sitting pretty in a ThinkTank Airport Security bag.


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## hedonia (May 16, 2008)

ooh, me likey. How much did that bag cost you (if you don't mind me asking), and how heavy is it? I'm kind of a scrawny lady =)


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## N'Kolor (May 16, 2008)

I think the bag was like $350 and it actually isn't that bad.  The wheels are definitely nice though...thats for sure!  Now, with all of my gear...its heavy!  lol


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## Dave127 (May 19, 2008)

I like your work and it&#8217;s been great watching the progression. I wanted to know how do you like the 1D MarkIII? How quick is the AF for the action shots? Can you see a big difference in ISO and sharpness over the 5D?

I am trying to decide what my next body will be and have heard about the slow AF on the 5D and wanted to get an honest opinion. It&#8217;s hard to imagine a crop sensor beating out a full frame in image quality.


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## N'Kolor (May 20, 2008)

Its really hard to say.  The ISO performance I would say is equal...which is crazy considering how old the 5D is...the 5D is very impressive in that part.  For IQ...about the same, but I might give a slight edge to the 1D3.  As far as AF............the 1D3 rocks the socks off of the 5D!!!  Ain't no doubt about it!!!!  It is amazing how fast the AF is...I was actually out back just shooting an Osprey and it locked on and it was truly amazing what I got!

I didn't need a lot as far as action this wedding but I can tell you, in a dimly lit reception hall, the 5D would struggle at times unless there was a large contrast...the 1D3 doesn't seem to care!  I also had only a handful of out of focus shots...the 5D, I had more than enough.


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## Dave127 (May 20, 2008)

Thanks. I have been shooting alot of inside sports action and I use a 30D. I'm looking into wedding photog and have heard that the 5D was slow to focus. I want to upgrade and want something that will excel for both. I have been waiting to see what Canon will replace the 5D with, but who knows when that will happen. I would think the full frame sensor would be better in low light, but the 1D has a crop sensor and don't really want to spend $8000 for the 1DS. \


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## N'Kolor (May 20, 2008)

Its a 1.3 crop so not as bad as the 30D's 1.6.  But I understand what you are saying...just think, weather sealing!!!!  It rains with a 5D and, well I think you get it.


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## Dave127 (May 20, 2008)

Yes I do. The 10 FPS doesn't hurt either. I always worry about quality then you realize what "pros" are using and say WOW. Like you said, you had better equipment then the photog from your wedding.

I just want something that will work really well for both. My 30D is good, my glass is better, I need less noise at higher ISO. I like most others, can't afford to make a bad decision. BTW I will be keeping the 30D as a back up.

Thanks for the feed back. I always preffer recomendations from people that own and use.


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## N'Kolor (May 20, 2008)

I don't know if this makes you feel any better but David Jay shoots with a 1D Mark III.  Go to his youtube account and check out the Night Engagement video...he is shooting with the 1D Mark IIN in that video...that was pre 1D Mark III.


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## Dave127 (May 20, 2008)

That does help thanks. You know how it is, it's expensive. I'm also looking for a couple of new lens, a prime and another telephoto. I'm hoping I can get a package deal.


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## Dave127 (May 20, 2008)

What memory cards do you use with it? EXT 3 or 4?


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## N'Kolor (May 20, 2008)

My old stock is Lexar 133x and my new stock is Lexar 300x UDMA.


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## Dave127 (May 21, 2008)

Thanks for all the input. You have definatly been helpfull. Now I have to finish a couple of sales and alow myself to purchase.


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## sistamlissa (May 31, 2008)

Mike,
It's so great to see you growing and getting so much better so quickly! I completely understand where you're at right now, getting your feet wet and falling in love with weddings. It's my passion!  Great to see you here, give me an email!


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## N'Kolor (Jun 2, 2008)

Melissa!!!!  Hey Girl, long time!  I frequent your blog and I love your stuff!  I have been shooting like a mad man, just finished my 13th wedding.  I also helped Kevin at his last workshop...that was really fun.

Well, I have a lot of new stuff and I will post it up when I get some free time but for now, I will leave you all with the picture that is on the homepage of my site.







**This was taken from a wedding I shot this weekend.


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## N'Kolor (Jun 20, 2008)

Hey guys, man its been crazy!  I am shooting another wedding on Sunday, then again next Saturday.  Go check out my blog to see some recent work and feel free to leave a comment.

Blog

Thanks!
Mike


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## JDHoward (Jun 21, 2008)

Thought I'd update everyone as well.  I was hired as a second shooter a couple weeks ago and had my first wedding yesterday.  I technically shot third this weekend, but the rest I'll be the second.  Definitely was fun and I look forward to the next one.  I'll try to post some pictures later if I can for comments and critiques.


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## N'Kolor (Jul 25, 2008)

Okay, so I have shot something like 20 weddings since February.  I have recently booked two more brides as solos and I am really excited about them.

As always, check my blog for latest updates.  I am building a new site but it is slowly coming along.


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## DeCall (Aug 1, 2008)

I just read this whole thread and you are such an inspiration, Mike.  As a second shooter at a wedding (or the assistant), do you shadow the photographer, or do you get different shots completely?


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## N'Kolor (Sep 8, 2008)

Wow, sorry for the EXTREMELY late reply. When I first started I shadowed the second just to get an idea of what I was doing.  But after a few, I started doing my own thing which is what they want.

Things have been really good.  I threw a party for the Free To Succeed Tour and David Jay came to the party...pretty sweet to just hang with someone that I look up to sooo much in the industry.

I also put together an after-party shoot for the photographers that came to the party. Below is a shot I got with my new Nikon D3.


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## NateWagner (Sep 8, 2008)

Well, first of all, congrats on how successful you have been in getting into wedding photography...

as far as the shot... umm, first thought is.. ewww, The skin is wayyy overdone.


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## N'Kolor (Sep 8, 2008)

Thanks for your feedback...however, I disagree.  I only lightly touched up her skin.


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## NateWagner (Sep 8, 2008)

ok, well, look at the comparison between her right and her left hand. The right hand has absolutely no detail on it (even the knuckles are pretty much smoothed out), the left hand does (probably not touched up as much). Also, her forehead and cheek in general have no structure to them. it looks very fake. Also, the two differently colored eyes are bothering me... but then again it could be a lack of light on the right side of the photo due to the fence. 

But, if you like it then ok.


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## Sontizzle (Sep 8, 2008)

yea that picture is way over edited


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## zioneffect564 (Sep 8, 2008)

N'Kolor said:


> Thanks for your feedback...however, I disagree.*  I only lightly touched up her skin.*



really because it looks way overdone to me. just a thought though.


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## Mike30D (Sep 9, 2008)

Wow. If that's "lightly" touched up, I'd hate to see the overdone version. I'm sorry but I have to agree on saying that it's too much. She looks too fake, too perfect. I guess if the client likes it then who am I to argue though....


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## N'Kolor (Sep 9, 2008)

Tough crowd...


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## NateWagner (Sep 9, 2008)

are you serious? 

Look, I have looked at your website... looked at your photos, in general they are quite good. I am just saying that the skin in this one is absolutely fake and plasticky. 

Unless you're saying tough crowd because you're pulling our chain or something. I am very surprised to see this photo because of the quality of the work I've seen of yours. I would assume that you would also be able to see how off the skin looks. (which is why I'm sorta wondering if you know it looks plasticky and are just messing with us, defending it for no real reason). 

If you don't believe us though, post it by itself in another area (say people or something like that), and see what people say about it. I will refrain from commenting there.


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## Jon_Are (Sep 12, 2008)

> I only lightly touched up her skin.



I gotta believe you're messin' with us (note the smiley, folks).

That forehead is downright _bizarre.

_Jon


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## Brian Austin (Sep 12, 2008)

Actually, the balance of the image bothers me more than the plastic skin.  There's way too much fence/trellis in that crop.  No reason not to capture her back a little more.  Throw that in a frame and it's going to be even worse.


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## Jon_Are (Sep 13, 2008)

N'Kolor, any chance you'd consider posting the original?

And maybe letting us have a crack at it?

I think there's a nice photo in there.

Jon


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## heavenlymom (Sep 18, 2008)

Beautiful portraits!
I am also new to weddings and always let my potential wedding customers know the whole deal and they must sign a contract. Great Job!!


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## N'Kolor (Sep 23, 2008)

So, yes I was messing with you guys.  Although, the editing wasn't real harsh, it was definitely stronger than I usually use.  Yes, I will post the original later today.  Thanks for making me laugh everyone!


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## dataz722 (Oct 2, 2008)

So it appears that you went from Nikon to Cannon and back to Nikon.  What made you change?


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## SwitchFX (Oct 3, 2008)

Yeah, I'd like to know too as well.


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## SwitchFX (Oct 3, 2008)

Never mind, reading his blog I came across this: 

http://mikerichardsphotography.blogspot.com/2008/09/nikon-d3.html



> Since I shoot weddings and sports, I decided to try the 1D Mark III by Canon. Wow, what a great camera it was but still, I wanted the ergonomics and colors that Nikon produces. *So a few months ago, I sold the 1D Mark III and went back to Nikon and bought the D300. After a couple of months I got the itch for the D3.* And so what do most people do when they have an itch...they scratch it?


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## sxesweets (Oct 5, 2008)

Wow this was a good read for me. I likes being able to see the progression... Thanks


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## N'Kolor (Jul 15, 2009)

Its been a LONGGGGG time since I was last here! I came back to find an hdr shot by NJMAN but it has been removed, hopefully he will put it back up so I can see it again.

Well, business is decent...stayed pretty busy throughout last year and so far this year.  I have a new site and a new blog.  Here is some of my recent work...  You can also view my work by visiting Mike Richards Photography :: Wedding Photojournalism :: Orlando :: Tampa :: Destinations.


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## Nicholas James Photo (Jul 15, 2009)

If you have a back up camera, you will not need it (back up as opposed to second use camera)
If you dont have a back up, you will need one. It's called sods law.
A second photographer is dependent on budget, size of wedding and how comfortable you are at photographing weddings.......... It's a bit like the back up camera. Better to have than to have not.
Good luck


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## N'Kolor (Jul 15, 2009)

I disagree about a second.  I use them only cuz my wife shoots as well...otherwise I would shoot solo.  I find I get better stuff when I shoot solo and I am more creative.  But I have three cameras...two on me and one in the bag.


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