# Photography Websites- No More Flash



## stevenrecords (Jan 27, 2011)

Steve Jobs has made several comments that flash, which has been the primary source for photography sites, is becoming out dated. Reason being, most mobile devices do not support flash based sites, such as Blackberry, iPhone, and iPad. 

Other than just mere incompatibility, it also poses the problem of slow loading speeds and a required plug-in (flash player).

So the question is what should photographers use in place of flash if they are going to keep up with the times?

One great alternative that people are going to is Javascript. It works on most mobile devices, it is fast loading, and there is a wide variety of transitions/animated galleries that look just as good as flash. 

So if you are wanting to rebuild your site hopefully this will be helpful in deciding how you want it developed.

Feel free to post your javascript based photography site. 

I'm currently using facybox.js which is a great solution.


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## MichiganFarts (Jan 27, 2011)

More importantly, who cares what Steve Jobs says...and he can take his Ipad and shove it up his...the rest of the story, after this intermission.


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## CCericola (Jan 27, 2011)

Except doesn't Javascript offer little to no protection? At least in Flash you can hide original URL's etc... Steve is just being whiny because Adobe won't bow down to him.


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## Village Idiot (Jan 27, 2011)

That's not going to be helpful in how I want to rebuild my site.


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## Rekd (Jan 27, 2011)

I finally moved to a flash gallery. I probably won't be going back. 

Oh and yeah, Jobs can go ahead and shove it up his apple-hole.


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## klotzishere20 (Jan 27, 2011)

Apple will eventually use flash in their web browser on the iproducts.  Keyword... eventually...


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## xjoewhitex (Jan 27, 2011)

klotzishere20 said:


> Apple will eventually use flash in their web browser on the iproducts.  Keyword... eventually...


Agreed, and I will be waiting while my site is in flash.


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## redtippmann (Jan 27, 2011)

I doubt they will implement flash into the iPad. But I personally think sites should be mainly HTML with some flash so iPad users can still see some content. 

And the iPad can use HTML5. I think it (or it's successor) will eventually phase out flash.


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## CNCO (Jan 27, 2011)

Try the adobe light box plugin.


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## MarkCSmith (Jan 27, 2011)

That's just a good reason why you should have a mobile friendly version of your promotional website. And really...do people search for a photographer on their phones? I would guess not. Yes, people are doing a lot of their web browsing on their phones/tablets/whatever, but I think when they are looking to check out a photographer, they'll be on a laptop or desktop computer.


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## Garbz (Jan 28, 2011)

stevenrecords said:


> Steve Jobs has made several comments that flash, which has been the primary source for photography sites, is becoming out dated. Reason being, most mobile devices do not support flash based sites, such as Blackberry, iPhone, and iPad.
> 
> Other than just mere incompatibility, it also poses the problem of slow loading speeds and a required plug-in (flash player).
> 
> So the question is what should photographers use in place of flash if they are going to keep up with the times?



So let's look at the myths:

Slow loading speed: Flash itself is remarkably compact and has quite incredible compression. Slow loading speed is primarily a complaint of people who will create mini movies on their website complete with fully integrated images panning all over the place, background music, and god knows what else. The question is what kind of media intensive application offers an alternative?

Required plugin: Until youtube disappears off the face of the internet, flash being a required plugin isn't remotely of your concern. Chances are that people who come to your site without flash installed either just formatted their computer or just tried to figure out what the internet is and clicked on the wrong button. Nearly all major media producers will require flash plugins, and it's kind of like complaining that people who don't own a TV can't see your TV advert.

On that compatibility note: Mobile devices most definitely do support flash. The iPad, doesn't, the iPhone doesn't. Shame really because Android is taking over as the primary platform. The iwhatever may be one of the most popular phones, but it is only a single device, vs a large number of Android capable devices. The iPad has the early entry advantage. There's petty few alternatives right now, but with the Galaxy tablet out now, Android 3.0 with tablet specific modifications coming early this year, and the computer trade shows dominated by countless tablets running everything from Andriod to full fledged Windows 7, iOS won't be the dominant platform in the tablet market for long. 


I'm worried you've taken the incoherent rantings of a single CEO too literally. I'll declare flash outdated and dying when .... well when there's an alternative for a start. It's kind of hard to declare it outdated when it's grand successor to be, HTML5 is not yet fully supported by any major browser. 

I wouldn't worry. If you are worried that some dude won't see your website on his iPhone I then code your site up in standard HTML + javascript. That's what I did but mainly because it was far easier, i'm not good at flash, and I really frigging hate flash too. Oh god I'm here supporting it now. Excuse me while I go jump off the balcony.


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## CNCO (Feb 1, 2011)

well steve jobs can continue to sell over priced equipment all day. flash is great! although i will say that i just set up a trial on smug mug and it looks good on my phone. it also gives you the option for a mobile site.


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## quiddity (Feb 1, 2011)

most big sites are checking browser and using flash or quicktime ... and youtube uses quicktime for apple people.

the problem you have is that when people are home browsing they will grab the ipad and not the laptop. when i come to a flash site i hit the back button and go to the next site in the list. seems like such a waste to ride the moral high ground of Job sucks. 

Just saying.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Feb 1, 2011)

When your business is small, and relies a bit on word of mouth advertising, it's only smart to make your site available on mobile devices.

Think about it...make your self available anywhere at any time to any potential customer, or, well, don't. :lmao:


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## djacobox372 (Feb 2, 2011)

Apple is just trying to leverage their power as a hardware manufacture to squash a rival business. 

It's a BS move by apple, and it's illegal--a violation of anti-trust laws.  

Imagine if Microsoft said they weren't going to support any browsers other then IE; this is the same thing.


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## err_ok (Feb 2, 2011)

I was going to argue, but what's the point.

That's got some interesting (apparently unbiased) comparisons - HTML5 vs Flash


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## quiddity (Feb 2, 2011)

argument and point of view are irrelevent

fact is more people are getting ipad and iphone. the trend is increasing not decreasing.
you need to make a unbiased decision to ensure EVERYONE can see your site or not.

sent from my ipad


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## Derrel (Feb 2, 2011)

Apple has been able to implement its will in the past, many times... I would not take Garbz's approach and call Steve Jobs, "the incoherent rantings of a single CEO." Why?
Apple was able to exert tremendous leverage over the personal computer and music player businesses. How you ask? Small things, like installing CD-ROM drives in ALL of its computers...small things like developing web-based motion video...small things like turning USB from a forgotten POS connection system to the one used in every iMac and Macintosh and then,amazingly, into all PCS as well...the development of Firewire....the development of on-line MP3 sales and delivery...the first company to REALLY capitalize on online music sales and to almost print money out of thin air...

Yeah...sure Garbz...Steve Jobs and "the incoherent rantings of a single CEO" have greatly influenced the personal computing experience that you and everybody on this board is enjoying today...but then, you're probably too young to remember computers before motion video, or even before USB connectivity and "plug n play"...

The real villain in this game is Adobe and the hard-on they have for your dollars...Adobe is treading on thin ice I think, and is endangering the goose and the golden egg supply by acting monopolistic toward other large players, like Apple. If there is one,single company not to cross, it is Apple. it used to be Microsoft, but they have lost out because they don't make hardware,and therefore lack leverage at the "device" level; witness the pathetic sales of the Zune MP3 player versus the iPod....one is a resounding success, and is the MOST-expensive device in its class. The Microsoft offering is a joke.


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## o hey tyler (Feb 2, 2011)

Can't view a Flash Website on your iPhone or iPad? 

It's okay, let me just pull out my Droid and I'll show it to you on the go. 

**** iProducts.


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## err_ok (Feb 2, 2011)

Let's not pull out the 'iProducts are ****' && 'Boo to the droid' statements.

They're both as good as each other (ok well with android it depends entirely on the phone manufacturer, some are quite terrible)


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## o hey tyler (Feb 2, 2011)

err_ok said:


> Let's not pull out the 'iProducts are ****' && 'Boo to the droid' statements.
> 
> They're both as good as each other (ok well with android it depends entirely on the phone manufacturer, some are quite terrible)



I'm sorry, did I hurt your feelings? 

Droids can run flash, right? iPhone's can't. I said nothing inaccurate, and you aren't going to be the one to tell me that I can't voice my opinion. 

Thanks.


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## loopy (Feb 2, 2011)

I disagree with Apple's decision to not support flash...but as a web designer I advise my clients against using flash unless they have a legitimate reason (gaming / heavy animation). Even then, I'd never make an entire website in flash.

Even though I have flash installed, as soon as I see the preloader - I leave. While flash can be implemented in great ways, I find this is rarely the case. As a general rule, you have 5 seconds to convince your user to stay on your website, most flash sites I've seen take longer than that to load.

While you can do some SEO with flash, you will still be losing out. Simply put, your flash website isn't as search engine friendly as an html one. 

Most photographers websites I've see could (and probably should) be done in html.


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## 12sndsgood (Feb 2, 2011)

o hey tyler said:


> Can't view a Flash Website on your iPhone or iPad?
> 
> It's okay, let me just pull out my Droid and I'll show it to you on the go.
> 
> **** iProducts.


 



so if your running a business does it make more sence to base your website off of something half the people can view. or something that everyone can view?


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## o hey tyler (Feb 2, 2011)

12sndsgood said:


> o hey tyler said:
> 
> 
> > Can't view a Flash Website on your iPhone or iPad?
> ...



Haha, half the people in the world using solely mobile devices to view web content? That's funny.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Feb 2, 2011)

Well, Tyler, if you feel the need to limit exposure to a business, you just keep on fighting the good fight. 


Posted from my iPad.


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## quiddity (Feb 2, 2011)

digital prints for the masses ... pfft said kodak
online movies ... pfft said blockbuster

you should never ignore current fads in business you never now which is going to become the norm


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## dnavarrojr (Feb 2, 2011)

Around here where I am, I have found that women are more apt to use mobile browsing devices than computers.  And if you're a wedding photographer, that means they can't view your site.  My fiance is one of those people... She has a laptop she uses for doing homework (she's gone back to college), but she does 99% of her web browsing on an iPad she won.  And since winning the iPad and showing it off to a umber of coworkers and friends (mostly women), many of them have purchased iPads.

From a purely business point of view, I think business web sites should at least have an HTML version.  And when I was a full-time web developer, every company I worked for avoided flash for anything other than advertisements stuck in the corner of a page.

Yes, I think some Flash web sites "look cool".  But most (in my opinion) do not.  And personally I can't stand to be on a flash only web site.


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## GeneralBenson (Feb 3, 2011)

I surprised that loopy was the first one to bring up the possibly biggest factor. Google can't index Flash content. The hit on SEO and Google rankings for having pretty much all of your content go un-indexed is a huge drawback, and should be a giant red flag for any photographer who is pro, semi-pro or hoping to be pro. Unless you are Chase Jarvis, and the whole world already knows who you are and will search for you by name, then everything you can do to get yourself higher on searches is not enough. 

But then again, I guess this whole topic has two very different answers based on something that hasn't been clarified yet. Are you trying to make a living from photography, or is it just a hobby? If it's just a hobby and you just want to share your images with people, then who cares what you do. If some people can't see your site, and never come back, it's no big loss.

But if you're trying to make a living from photography, it's foolish to turn away from such a large chunk of the market. Blah blah blah, the Droid is great. Fine it's great, I don't care. TONS of people still have iPhones, and a growing number of people are using iPad as their primary web surfing device. I have an iPhone and an iPad, and I do more surfing on the two of them than I do on my laptop. And when I come to a website that is flash-based an won't open on my iPad, I close it and never go back. I'm not going to go fire up my laptop so I can go look at some site. 

In the circles I travel in, which is mostly professional editorial/commercial photographers, photo editors, art directors, and other media professionals, the Apple world dominates everything else by about 2:1. The vast majority of people have iPhones, and many of them have an iPad. It would be downright stupid for me to cut them off from my website and make it so they can only view it at their desk. 

Twiter and Facebook are without a doubt the two leading ways in which information and web content are shared these days, and many people are now doing the majority of their social networking on mobile devices. That means that when someone I follow tweets, "Hey, check out this great photographer", and I try to go check them out and get a lank page because it's a flash page, guess what? I'm not looking at it, and I'm never going to. Not because I don't care, but because I can't. And even if I care enough to want to check it later, I'll probably forget. Links are so frequently shared these days, that you have to fight hard for people's attention. Anything you do to make it harder for people to view your site, will result in them navigating away and not coming back. 

This isn't about whether the iPhone or Droid is better. No one cares. I love how it used to be cool to have an iPhone and think you were better than everyone else. But then too many people got iPhone, and now it's cool to have not an iPhone and think you're cooler than anyone that has one. Some people are just always looking for a reason to be a part of the elite minority that gets to think they're better than everyone else.

The bottom line is that if you are trying to make a living from photography, then you simply can't afford to build a website that cuts so many people off from viewing it.


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## o hey tyler (Feb 3, 2011)

In this thread: iProduct purchasers who are upset about the lack of support for flash.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Feb 3, 2011)

I have an iPhone, and iPad, and am not upset about not seeing flash sites. It's not my loss. You shouldn't assume anybody is upset, really.

I am currently streaming a DVD from my PC through WiFi.
I am much more excited about that, than wishing I could view flash sites.


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## o hey tyler (Feb 3, 2011)

I was joking. But streaming movies is mighty neat. :thumbup:

Side note just from experience: If anyone on here is byhaps a Tivo user, beware of the new promotions at websites like Amazon for massively discounted DVR units. Instead of the 12.95 you would be paying for a service agreement per month, you'll be paying $19.95 per month for the first year (so Tivo says).  But there's no guarantee of a service fee decrease. The unit is ALSO not eligible for a second unit rate. We have a single Tivo XL for upstairs, and we were looking at getting another for the downstairs TV at the discounted rate... We weren't too happy about the hidden catches. 

Totally off topic, but I figured it was useful information for any Tivo users that might be roamin'.


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## GeneralBenson (Feb 3, 2011)

o hey tyler said:


> In this thread: iProduct purchasers who are upset about the lack of support for flash.



I couldn't care less about flash support. And I couldn't care less about Droid vs iPhone. But if you're goingto start calling people out, your Droid fanboy attitude is far stronger than anyone else's iProduct attitude in here. 

I also know plenty of people in the professional media sector who have Droids or Blackberries. And they all got one because they looked around and decided it was the best for what they needed, not because they had a "F*** Apple, I'm cooler than Steve Jobs" attitude.


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## o hey tyler (Feb 3, 2011)

GeneralBenson said:


> o hey tyler said:
> 
> 
> > In this thread: iProduct purchasers who are upset about the lack of support for flash.
> ...



I'm not calling anyone out! I don't even have a ****ing droid! :lmao:


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## GeneralBenson (Feb 3, 2011)

o hey tyler said:


> Can't view a Flash Website on your iPhone or iPad?
> 
> It's okay, let me just pull out my Droid and I'll show it to you on the go.
> 
> **** iProducts.



So you're just being a troll for the purpose of causing arguments? Classy stuff. Thanks for derailing an otherwise useful thread.


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## o hey tyler (Feb 3, 2011)

This is still a useful thread. Don't get your panties into a bunch. I'm sorry I hurt your iFeelings. 

I don't think that more than half of the world's population is going to be browsing for photographers on their phone, or mobile device. Maybe a tablet, but even so, the Droid market is growing faster than the iOS Platform. 

If you're going to sit down and look for a wedding photographer, are you going to pull out your Blackberry, or iPhone? Chances are, no. You're going to go online and look through someone's portfolio on a reasonably sized screen. I understand that everyone's ****ting their pants over a retina display on their iPhone, but it's really not ideal for viewing web content. (and neither is a droid, so I'm obviously not biased) 

Don't forget, while Mac's are use a lot by designers and photographers for their functionality in that aspect, a frickin' TON of people still use desktop computers as their primary surfing device. Sure, there are some people who buy iPads and think "if it doesn't look good on the iPad, it's not worth looking at". 

People are still going to use flash if there's still a market for it.


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## flea77 (Feb 3, 2011)

Personally, I could care less what Steve says, but I am not about to risk one of tens of millions of iPhone, iPod and iPad users not being able to access my site. You want a flash site? Fine! You willing to risk the potential customer going somewhere else because they can't view your site? Great! More customers for me!

Allan


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## Bitter Jeweler (Feb 3, 2011)

Tyler, troll or not, can't wrap his head around this.

I regularly us my fancy pants iPhone retina display as a portable portfolio. It generates more interest and customers than a business card alone. 

Friends eagerly show my work via Flickr, or Facebook, on their phones, to friends when they are out having lunch or whatever. Advertising a business via word of mouth has move beyond words. It now involves showing pictures, which generates much more interest and has more and immediate impact.

I don't have a website yet, but am just now contracting a pro to do it.
I told him I didn't want a flash site, and he rolled his eyes and said he doesn't use flash, there are other ways to do what it does without *restricting access to potential customers using mobile devices.*

You keep downplaying the iProduct market, and continue to tout the growing Droid user base. It doesn't ****ing matter. If you have a small business, you want to ****ing reach _*EVERYONE*_, no matter what technology YOU favor. YOU don't matter, potential customers matter.


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## Sam6644 (Feb 3, 2011)

I skipped ahead after the first page but has anyone mentioned the fact the flash websites are bad news for your search engine optimization? 

Your flash page can be the neatest little thing anyone has every seen, but if you're not high on the list of google results, nobody is going to see it. 

It's gotten better in the last couple years, but flash pages are still not your best bet for getting people to your site. 

I understand people like the bells and whistles, but at the end of the day its about getting eyes on your page. I don't know why people sacrifice page views for silly things like page transitions and music and other things you can embed on your page very easily without flash these days.


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## Sam6644 (Feb 3, 2011)

*and for what it's worth, the iPhone is the #3 device people have used to view my website in the last 30 days...


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## o hey tyler (Feb 4, 2011)

I don't remember ever saying that I was going to make a flash website. I'm just stating facts. I'm not a fan of it either, and have no experience designing for it, but there is currently no substitute for it in certain applications. There are workarounds and things that look good, but flash does still serve a purpose for the time being. And some people will use it, and do just fine.

If more people coded sites and sniffed for mobile browsers, and designed mobile sites that look good on mobile devices, photographers would be in a better place. Low res images that still look good on a mobile device that's a quick acting portfolio for your photography. That's what I plan on doing. 

Why is it so hard to understand that I don't even have a Droid, Blackberry, or iPhone, and I really don't give a **** what people use? I'm aware people use cell phones, and a lot of people do have the ability to view flash on their phone. It's also not impossible to SEO a flash site... 

Like I said, I'm just stating facts.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Feb 4, 2011)

I am stating facts as well, or at least a reasonable facsimile.


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## o hey tyler (Feb 4, 2011)

i like turtles


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## Sam6644 (Feb 4, 2011)

For the sake of more money making its way into my pocket, I hope nobody ever takes my advice when it comes to this sort of thing. 


I'm definitely not arguing.


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## Forkie (Feb 15, 2011)

Of course Steve Jobs says Flash is outdated, aren't Jobs and Adobe in a constant battle over flash support on Apple products?


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## alwaysbored786 (Feb 15, 2011)

MichiganFarts said:


> More importantly, who cares what Steve Jobs says...and he can take his Ipad and shove it up his...the rest of the story, after this intermission.



Thank you! I feel the same way. Screw jobs and not dealing with adobe to allow flash to run on I devices.


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## eric-holmes (Feb 15, 2011)

My website is all JS and HTML and I am quite proud of it.


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## will-jum (Feb 15, 2011)

agree, my site uses html, i steer well clear of flash


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## zoogirlbc (Feb 15, 2011)

I built my site with HTML and JS too. I'm not against flash but I know that I'd rather have everyone be able to see my site than to risk losing potential customers that are not able to see my site or are too impatient to wait for a full flash site to load. I know I will usually leave slow pages or anything with music.


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## philsphoto (Feb 15, 2011)

Anything wrong with using sites like smugmug.com for your website?  I have mine on smugmug, with my own domain.  I have access to their products and services.


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## GeneralBenson (Feb 16, 2011)

philsphoto said:


> Anything wrong with using sites like smugmug.com for your website?  I have mine on smugmug, with my own domain.  I have access to their products and services.



I think it can come across as unprofessional, but people have varying thoughts on this. But depending on what type of clients you're trying to attract, like in the editorial or commercial worlds, it is definitely looked down upon and is a good way to designate yourself as not serious about your work.


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## will-jum (Feb 16, 2011)

ahh, let em do it n fail!


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## mcooper (Feb 21, 2011)

I developed my site manually in HTML and JS (there's some PHP in there too, under the hood) and I'm quite happy with it that way. I do like flash, but only in moderation. A little of it goes a long way and I tend not to hang around sites that are too 'flashy'.

No matter what however, I think that a good photography site should be like a frame holding a fine print: it shouldn't compete with or draw focus away from the photography being displayed. Just my opinion though..


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## Bitter Jeweler (Apr 28, 2011)

Spammer!


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