# Artistic Nudity discussion?



## eVilcreations

Hey everyone,

I would like to get some of your views and beliefs on the subject.

At what point does the human form turn from artistic nudity into pornography?

And why?

Obviously photos depicting acts of any kind that are sexual in nature would be past that line into the realm of pornography. 

But I mean, when photographing the human form, where does it turn from art, into something that they would more likely put into playboy or other magazines?

Please Discuss.


Josh


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## Light Artisan

It's 100% interpretation... to some, a simple nipple is enough to be over the top - others would say an erect penis or open vagina.

It's a dirty line between black and white, you'll get 100 right answers and 1,000,000 different feelings about each one on this subject.

This thread outta be about 10 pages long by the days end.


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## Syco

When it turns into a study of form, rather than a picture of a body.  The human body is an excellent subject for rendering shape and tonal gradation.  Look at Edward Weston's photos of flowers and seashells.  They're sensual.  Going for something sexual is a whole different thing.


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## mishele

Light Artisan said:


> It's 100% interpretation... to some, a simple nipple is enough to be over the top - others would say an erect penis or open vagina.
> 
> It's a dirty line between black and white, you'll get 100 right answers and 1,000,000 different feelings about each one on this subject.
> 
> This thread outta be about 10 pages long by the days end.




I think you pretty much said it. Art is in the eye of the beholder, unless you run a site that tells you Nudity is not allowed. I guess then they pretty much have the last word.


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## Robin Usagani

Yeah.. it's 100% interpretation.  Look at regular tv channels.  They wont show topless scene (even if it is not sexual) but then they show women in a tribe in Africa and South America go topless no problem.


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## Big Mike

Light Artisan said:


> It's 100% interpretation... to some, a simple nipple is enough to be over the top - others would say an erect penis or open vagina.
> 
> It's a dirty line between black and white, you'll get 100 right answers and 1,000,000 different feelings about each one on this subject.
> 
> This thread outta be about 10 pages long by the days end.


Well said.



> into something that they would more likely put into playboy or other magazines?


I haven't perused a playboy in a long time, but my interpretation is that playboy is usually a lot closer to the artistic side, than the pornographic side.  I wouldn't necessarily call it an artistic study in the human body either...but I do know that if you look at a typical playboy image and compare it to what comes up if you type 'porn' into a search engine...you will get vastly different images.


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## Higgs Boson

Depends on the culture and background of the viewer.

Depends on the intention of the artist (which is open to interpretation, lol).

Depends on how the girl was raised.  ;-)


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## mishele

Higgs Boson said:


> Depends on the culture and background of the viewer.
> 
> Depends on the intention of the artist (which is open to interpretation, lol).
> 
> Depends on how the girl was raised.  ;-)



Depends on how dirty your mind is....lol


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## Light Artisan

Another good line I read somewhere...

"I don't know how to describe it, but I know what it when I see it."


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## gsgary

A UK nude would probably be a US porno


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## Trever1t

casn i get examples of both for review?


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## gsgary

Trever1t said:


> casn i get examples of both for review?




Don't post them on here the ****ing prudes will ban you


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## MichiganFarts

Wait...intercourse isn't art anymore?  when did we get so 1990's here?


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## Robin Usagani

Erose has a few samples.  Show them erose!


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## gsgary

Check this guy out http://www.christianhough.com/index2.php


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## mishele

Sorry Rose isn't going to show you the shots I took of her......


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## 12sndsgood

the answer to the question is when you masterbate to it duhhh.





i think everyone is going to have a diffrent opinion on the matter really.


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## mishele

erose86 said:


> Schwettylens said:
> 
> 
> 
> Erose has a few samples.  Show them erose!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Schwetty... *STOP HACKING INTO MY COMPUTER!*
> 
> I told you that already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mishele said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Rose isn't going to show you the shots I took of her......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No I'm not... :greenpbl:
> 
> However... Mish, that is an INSANELY brilliant idea!  I mean... you're RIGHT down the street from me!
Click to expand...


When it gets warmer out, we will have to do a bikini photo shoot.  :thumbup:


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## Josh66

eVilcreations said:


> Obviously photos depicting acts of any kind that are sexual in nature would be past that line into the realm of pornography.


Why?

...I disagree.


I don't think it is possible to make a strict rule as to what is porn and what is art.  You just know it when you see it.
And it is probably different for every person.


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## John Mc

gsgary said:


> A UK nude would probably be a US porno



I kinda want to agree with you .

I'm shooting a friend of my Fiance soon and she want's to do Semi nude stuff.

But it's incredibley...Provocative posses she wants to do. Search Front magazine (not sure if the states get it there,Might be simular to Bizzare mag,just less Gothic) she's looking to get into the pages of that.

would you say its Pornographic, or More Provocative :meh:


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## Robin Usagani

you have seen my photochop skill.. I can always photo chop your face


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## MichiganFarts

O|||||||O said:


> eVilcreations said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously photos depicting acts of any kind that are sexual in nature would be past that line into the realm of pornography.
> 
> 
> 
> Why?
> 
> ...I disagree.
> 
> 
> I don't think it is possible to make a strict rule as to what is porn and what is art.  You just know it when you see it.
> And it is probably different for every person.
Click to expand...


What she described sounds like porn to me...but that's just me.  If it's sexual, I think most people would call it porn, outside of photography discussion especially.

How about this...if you have to explain how it's art and not porn...then it's porn.

And as far as rules with this stuff goes...I think legally it would be considered porn, if it's sexual content. (This is all subjective I know.)

Also, pedophile types probably consider their work art...so there's got to be rules in my opinion...and if anybody thinks that kind of sickness is art...I'm not in the right forums at all.


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## Josh66

MichiganFarts said:


> What she described sounds like porn to me...but that's just me.  If it's sexual, I think most people would call it porn, outside of photography discussion especially.


What _he_ described was "any kind that are sexual in nature".  That's pretty wide open.  [EDIT-> And it wouldn't even necessarily require nudity... <-EDIT]  Without seeing examples, I don't see how it's possible to automatically say it's 'porn'.


MichiganFarts said:


> How about this...if you have to explain how it's art and not porn...then it's porn.


How about this...  What if you're dealing with someone who thinks that Michelangelo's David is porn?  Yes, there _are_ people that think that way.  I'm related to some of them.  :lmao:
Just because you have to explain it doesn't necessarily mean anything.  What if the person you're talking to is just a moron?


MichiganFarts said:


> Also, pedophile types probably consider their work art...so there's got to be rules in my opinion...and if anybody thinks that kind of sickness is art...I'm not in the right forums at all.


:lmao:

Well, lucky for you, nudity is no longer allowed here - so you'll never be forced to look at some pedophiles 'art'.

Some people just see any nudity as 'porn', and there's no point in trying to convince them otherwise.  So far, I'm thinking you might fall into that category...

edit
If you do fall into that category, I didn't mean it to be an insult (re-reading it, I can see that it might have came off that way).  All I meant is that you see the world differently than me, and there is no point in me trying to 'convince you' that my way is 'right'.


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## gsgary

erose86 said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> 
> Check this guy out Christian Hough
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Love it!
> 
> ::bookmarked::
Click to expand...


He does the Lighting Masterclass in Photo Pro Magazine (UK) i love to see how he has lit shots if you go on youtube he has some short videos


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## gsgary

John Mc said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> 
> A UK nude would probably be a US porno
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kinda want to agree with you .
> 
> I'm shooting a friend of my Fiance soon and she want's to do Semi nude stuff.
> 
> But it's incredibley...Provocative posses she wants to do. Search Front magazine (not sure if the states get it there,Might be simular to Bizzare mag,just less Gothic) she's looking to get into the pages of that.
> 
> would you say its Pornographic, or More Provocative :meh:
Click to expand...


Who cares if she's fit shoot it


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## Josh66

One example I shot a while back:
Flickr: Please wait...

Just posting the link, since we aren't allowed to post these kind of pictures anymore...

Porn, or art?

To me, it's art.  Most of my family thinks it's porn though.  (My mom is pretty much the sole exception...)


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## mishele

Still love the shot, Josh!! It's one of my favs. of yours. 
And that is in noway porn. lol


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## MichiganFarts

O|||||||O, you're absolutely right that it's all subjective, which is why I didn't try to get specific...just saying that I can understand what he's (<got it right this time!) trying to say.

My one concern would be about allowing pedofile types to be called artists, which is why I think most nude art should be classified as porn.

Now I know legally, nudity isn't always considered porn when dealing with publicizing photos.  So I guess for me, I'd go there for what's art and what's not, then I can safely say a pedofile isn't an artist, yet there's still creative room for a photographer.

Which going that route, would make anything that looks like playboy porn...but I don't shoot nudes so I'd be ok with that lol...anyway, I know I'm not the decider of these things for you either, but just so you know where I'm coming from.

Don't worry 'bout insulting me, I do it to myself all the time... :lmao:.


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## Josh66

Still one of my favorites too, lol.

We have a 20x20 of it on the wall.  

That's when the trouble started.  Family came over, and "how dare you have porn on the walls for your kids to see".  That, or in the case of my wife's sister - jealousy. 

I pretty much told them to get over it, and if it was that big of a deal, don't come over anymore.


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## Josh66

Well, pedophiles are one thing (I personally think they should all get a bullet in the head), but I don't think it's fair to label artists with that.  Now, I know I might be wrong, but I don't think that there are many pedophiles out there making art...
I think most people can tell the difference...

And Playboy is one of the most tasteful 'adult' mags, I think - especially the older ones.  I haven't really seen the more recent issues...
I think if you really sat down and looked at it, a lot of it _could_ be considered art.  Something like Hustler though, yeah - that's porn.  


It's like I said earlier - you just know when you see it, and it won't be the same for everyone.


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## DecadentDashes

I agree with you on that one Erose. For me most of those pictures, no matter how well they are taken, fall under pornography rather than artistic nude. I see it as a combination of body language and perspective. When the model's posturing screams 'sex' the photograph stops acting as a medium to showcase the art and vision of the photographer and starts selling or projecting the sex appeal of the model. That may very well be the vision of the photographer, which is perfectly fine, but then don't label it 'artistic nude'. Just call it by what it is. 

That's how I feel about it anyway.


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## GeorgieGirl

I can't see the flikr, I need to log in and I don't think I have one...

FWIW, I have been provided links by some here to truly beautiful work. Artisitc work that is impressive and wow. They are highly styled set-ups and the best of technical photography. They are photgraphic works of art. Top Shelf. I don't think they can be confused with porn at all.

I have not seen that kind of work posted here.


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## Rob1n

There is a massive differnce betweeen the two, intent. Is the intent to sexualy arouse the viewer if yes then it's porn. simple really.


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## AleK

You've pretty right Erose86.

if i take exemple of my works.
it's fine art nude, not erotic or pornographic, for my taste.

Beast

Je perds mes plumes

Madame


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## Derrel

Wow...this discussion has been populated by an "either art or porn" degree of extremism that's pretty narrow-minded. Where does erotica come in? How does one go straight to "porn"? Overall, some ridiculous comments have been made in this thread.


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## MichiganFarts

Derrel said:


> Wow...this discussion has been populated by an "either art or porn" degree of extremism that's pretty narrow-minded. Where does erotica come in? How does one go straight to "porn"? Overall, some ridiculous comments have been made in this thread.



Ironically, your opinion seems to be the only one that matters to you, making your post the most narrow minded in this thread.


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## eVilcreations

There is a lot of good opinions in this thread, thank you all for spawning this discussion.

I guess more important than anything in how the photos are looked at, is how society has influenced a persons views or beliefs.

What some call artistic nudity, others would blatantly call pornography.

Please continue the discussion as I really like all the different opinions and arguments.


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## Yucel

eVilcreations said:


> At what point does the human form turn from artistic nudity into pornography?
> 
> Obviously photos depicting acts of any kind that are sexual in nature would be past that line into the realm of pornography.
> 
> 
> Josh


 
Having thought about this, I wrote at lenght about it, and you can see the detail if you like at link below, let me say this about any 

..."obvious depictions of acts of ANY kind ... sexual in nature ... would be... pornography."


This makes a lot of nature shows about dolphins mating pornographic.  This makes the photo of the sailor kissing the woman in NY after WWII pornographic... 

If you think I am being overly picky here... I am with the comment above about views of porn being culture specific.  

In some countries, and some societies, these kinds of images ARE considered pornographic.  In others, well... viva l'internet.

For more of the general discussion see:  The Line between Art Nude and Pornographic Obscene, Where is it? | Cultured Woman, LLC


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## table1349

Just wondering, should we be discussing this subject here, since we are not big enough boys and girls to have a Photo Gallery forum here to display such artistic works?


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## GeorgieGirl

I think from what I have seen so far its best to leave it to other sites due to quality issues. :blushing:


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## RockDawg

MichiganFarts said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow...this discussion has been populated by an "either art or porn" degree of extremism that's pretty narrow-minded. Where does erotica come in? How does one go straight to "porn"? Overall, some ridiculous comments have been made in this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ironically, your opinion seems to be the only one that matters to you, making your post the most narrow minded in this thread.
Click to expand...


This is SOOO true.  I am always amazed at how often the "open-minded" don't have an open mind when it comes to "closed or narrow-minded" people's point of view.  Oh sure, they have an open-mind when it comes to what other people should tolerate or accept, but shouldn't they, by virtue of their own beliefs, tolerate or accept other's so-called limited views? 

As for the porn versus art topic, I'm generally among the more narrow-minded of view points.  To me, most nudity that involves genitalia is more pornographic than art (with the exception of things like nude baby pictures).  My thinking is that it is, by definition, sexual in nature.  I know MANY people disagree and that's cool.  We all have out own beliefs.


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## gsgary

Looks like they have banned a subject that is very popular, this is a friend from another forum who shoots some really great and interesting stuff
Project Latex Land
P&P IMAGE FACTORY: photography of Martin Perreault & Gil Perron


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## dnurv

hello...my flickr account shows several referrals from this forum...i suppose i should thank some one...perhaps not...

some may find the link* below will help explain how i interpret the adult images i see and how i chose to describe them...

______________
*it appears i can't hot link here with a new account
______________
you are welcome to contact me directly at...ooops**
______________
**apparently i can't even post a email address..so try me at flickr...i'll pass along the appropriate links if you are at all interested...



regards

dana richardson
aka dnurv


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## DecadentDashes

I sent off a message to dnurv on flickr. If you are interested in reading his thoughts on the matter you can check out this link

 Essayness


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## rickowens

it really depends how & where you were raised. Europeans tends to think more freely on this matter.


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## ghpham

RockDawg said:


> MichiganFarts said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow...this discussion has been populated by an "either art or porn" degree of extremism that's pretty narrow-minded. Where does erotica come in? How does one go straight to "porn"? Overall, some ridiculous comments have been made in this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ironically, your opinion seems to be the only one that matters to you, making your post the most narrow minded in this thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is SOOO true. I am always amazed at how often the "open-minded" don't have an open mind when it comes to "closed or narrow-minded" people's point of view. Oh sure, they have an open-mind when it comes to what other people should tolerate or accept, but shouldn't they, by virtue of their own beliefs, tolerate or accept other's so-called limited views?
> 
> As for the porn versus art topic, I'm generally among the more narrow-minded of view points. To me, most nudity that involves genitalia is more pornographic than art (with the exception of things like nude baby pictures). My thinking is that it is, by definition, sexual in nature. I know MANY people disagree and that's cool. We all have out own beliefs.
Click to expand...

 
Hmm...so how is it that a picture of a nude baby is considered art, but a picture of a nude adult is porn?


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## xjoewhitex

gsgary said:


> A UK nude would probably be a US porno


Agreed. In most peoples opinions that ive came across if its naked its porno. Thats how we Americans are raised, and thats how most of us believe. I disagree but that means nothing.


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## GeorgieGirl

Let me see if I can take a stab at this...the infant is not trying to spice it up, smile sexy, show tits, ass, pubic regions, and act like a sex kitten. Does that range sum it up?


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## kundalini

Eroticism uses chicken feathers.

Pornography uses the whole chicken.


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## Derrel

ghpham said:


> RockDawg said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MichiganFarts said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ironically, your opinion seems to be the only one that matters to you, making your post the most narrow minded in this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is SOOO true. I am always amazed at how often the "open-minded" don't have an open mind when it comes to "closed or narrow-minded" people's point of view. Oh sure, they have an open-mind when it comes to what other people should tolerate or accept, but shouldn't they, by virtue of their own beliefs, tolerate or accept other's so-called limited views?
> 
> As for the porn versus art topic, I'm generally among the more narrow-minded of view points. To me, most nudity that involves genitalia is more pornographic than art (with the exception of things like nude baby pictures). My thinking is that it is, by definition, sexual in nature. I know MANY people disagree and that's cool. We all have out own beliefs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hmm...so how is it that a picture of a nude baby is considered art, but a picture of a nude adult is porn?
Click to expand...


Better watch out..or the prudes above will crucify you for mentioning the word baby and nude in the same post... LMFAO at some of the views here of these midwesterners who want to label anything they do not like as "porn".
Totally fricking hilariously narrow-minded.


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## ghpham

GeorgieGirl said:


> Let me see if I can take a stab at this...the infant is not trying to spice it up, smile sexy, show tits, ass, pubic regions, and act like a sex kitten. Does that range sum it up?


 
I seem to recall a picture of me as a youngster in the nude with my "tits", ass and pubic regions in full display.  So the only distinction is that I didn't smile "sexy" or act like a "sex kittens".  Is that the only distinction??


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## ghpham

O|||||||O said:


> Still one of my favorites too, lol.
> 
> We have a 20x20 of it on the wall.
> 
> That's when the trouble started. Family came over, and "how dare you have porn on the walls for your kids to see". That, or in the case of my wife's sister - jealousy.
> 
> I pretty much told them to get over it, and if it was that big of a deal, don't come over anymore.


 
Have you ever thought of asking them why it's ok for men to display their nipples but not women?


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## GeorgieGirl

ghpham said:


> GeorgieGirl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let me see if I can take a stab at this...the infant is not trying to spice it up, smile sexy, show tits, ass, pubic regions, and act like a sex kitten. Does that range sum it up?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I seem to recall a picture of me as a youngster in the nude with my "tits", ass and pubic regions in full display.  So the only distinction is that I didn't smile "sexy" or act like a "sex kittens".  Is that the only distinction??
Click to expand...


I would say that sums it up pretty well unless for some reason your parents labeled you a pin up and I doubt that you had any physical development based on what you describe that could be associated with porn. 

I am sure there are others who would love to see a photo that you describe, and I think you are speaking of a fairly common parental shot, yet I think we are speaking here of photgraphers and not perverts.


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## MichiganFarts

Derrel said:


> Better watch out..or the prudes above will crucify you for mentioning the word baby and nude in the same post... LMFAO at some of the views here of these midwesterners who want to label anything they do not like as "porn".
> Totally fricking hilariously narrow-minded.



Unfortunately, you're not going to find a quote that matches your ridiculous statement.  So instead, you quote something that has nothing to do with what you're saying.  Your antics are not going to fool anyone.

Maybe you can be less of a coward and scoff some of the more prominent members who paved the way to this subject being a personal preference...being that you obviously have a problem with that...or is it just easier to pick on new people?  Easy route...sounds like a coward through and through.


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## doziergraphic

Light Artisan said:


> Another good line I read somewhere...
> 
> "I don't know how to describe it, but I know what it when I see it."




In 1964, Justice Potter Stewart tried to explain "hard-core" pornography, or what is obscene, by saying, "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced . . . but I know it when I see it . . . "


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## amberdawn

ghpham said:


> O|||||||O said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still one of my favorites too, lol.
> 
> We have a 20x20 of it on the wall.
> 
> That's when the trouble started. Family came over, and "how dare you have porn on the walls for your kids to see". That, or in the case of my wife's sister - jealousy.
> 
> I pretty much told them to get over it, and if it was that big of a deal, don't come over anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you ever thought of asking them why it's ok for men to display their nipples but not women?
Click to expand...


Exactly. Only difference is women need to expose their nipples for an actual purpose, breastfeeding. Seems like it would be way more acceptable for women to be bare chested.


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## GeorgieGirl

amberdawn said:


> ghpham said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> O|||||||O said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still one of my favorites too, lol.
> 
> We have a 20x20 of it on the wall.
> 
> That's when the trouble started. Family came over, and "how dare you have porn on the walls for your kids to see". That, or in the case of my wife's sister - jealousy.
> 
> I pretty much told them to get over it, and if it was that big of a deal, don't come over anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you ever thought of asking them why it's ok for men to display their nipples but not women?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly. Only difference is women need to expose their nipples for an actual purpose, breastfeeding. Seems like it would be way more acceptable for women to be bare chested.
Click to expand...


Where? In the supermarket when pushing the cart and the baby is sound asleep? Or in a restaurant when the kid is two since they need to eat according to momma? Where do you want this to nipple flikr to occur???


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## Higgs Boson

I think it's viewed as more appropriate/less offensive for men to show nipples because it's a vestigial/non-use organ that serves no sexual/reproductive purpose where on women it is active.  Just like the other active sexual organs on the body remain hidden (for most people, lol)....  On women, nipples are still "the goods" so to speak.

Of course, in other countries with different cultures, the women go bare chested on beaches.  In other countries, public sex is acceptable.
In older times, men wore the makeup, etc.

Men are aroused by seeing women's nipples because they know they are active reproductive organs.

Are you women aroused by seeing a man's nipples?  I doubt it.  You women saying it should be ok for women to sport their nips around town are thinking with a woman's brain.....You have to think like a man, then decide if it's such a good idea.

Personally, as much as I love nipples, I don't really want to see them at a restaurant or while shopping.  Heck, take an economic approach....If you want us men to make you feel sexy and wanted when the time is right, better keep the supply low during all the other times.  Otherwise, we will be like the french men and not be so impressed....


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## gsgary

I can't believe all the fuse over bare bodies, i could see bare tits every Friday or Saturday night when out for a few beers you can't beat it


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## mwcfarms

gsgary said:


> Check this guy out Christian Hough



Brilliant. Love it and tfs. Another bookmark for me.


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## gsgary

mwcfarms said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> 
> Check this guy out Christian Hough
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brilliant. Love it and tfs. Another bookmark for me.
Click to expand...


No problem he is a great photographer, if you go on youtube and do a search he has some good videos for beginners to studio lighting


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## mwcfarms

I don't think I have seen any porn so far. Sorry even the flickr pics were more erotica than pornography in my mind. I even read the essay so I can't say the eye of the beholder because I guess its an unacceptable reasoning.  I think this is one of those things that is well enough let alone. You know in your own mind what is acceptable and what isn't. I leave you with your beliefs and I take no shame in my own.


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## Garbz

I find this thread incredibly interesting. On the one side mwcfarms says he hasn't seen any porn so far, I would agree with him. A spread vagina does not constitute porn in my opinion. 

That said the intent to arouse discussion is also interesting because I think that's the legal definition in some countries. I remember reading a case a while ago about child pornography, in this case the subject being clothed (barely) but sitting spreadeagled infront of the camera. At the time it was ruled as being child pornography due to it's focus point being the vaginal area. 

So who's intent to arouse do we follow? It's the viewer's digression as to what the subject is they are looking at so it's not fair to go to the photographer and ask them "was your intent to make me get wood?"

To that extent is this here porn? (safe for work just a photo of hands) Love Bondage | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
I think most reasonable people would say no, and my intent in making this picture was definitely not to get a rise out of people who see it. That said I know someone from a fetish forum who would get instant arousal even if those latex gloves weren't arm length. 

If the criteria for porn is arousal then no photo is safe. Somewhere someone considers that photo you just took of an innocent landscape **** material.


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## boudoirsalon

To capture the sensual, artistic nude, yes this is me, french female photographer... Dont ask me to get an intellectual advice on this matter.
Images talk themselves, just words can kill them.
I'd like to convince everyone to go beyond his comfort zone.
  exploring the female forms is the best subject in photography. 
You create your own boundaries, or your model conduct how she wants to appear through your lens.
YES. Get a chance when you come to Sydney to join one of my workshop as an experience, a real revelation . You'll think great i have got a fantastic lens or i have got a true talent. 
Voila.. to give you an idea check this and my events calendar. go to boudoirsalon.com
Marie


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## Higgs Boson

Yes, I agree.  The problem is an abundant supply of female form around here.....They are all the form of apples and pears, not females....  :-(

A picture is worth a thousand words, but how many words does it take to describe a picture?


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## dnurv

one of my favorite quotes from an unattributed source...

"what's the difference between art and porn?....the lighting"


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## gsgary

Listen to the second guy  what a jerk


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## xjoewhitex

Good video.. I think most of those people were morons lol.


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## Kyna

A big question I have after reading all of these.........is if it is everyone's interpretation is there really a difference?  Does it have to be labeled porn or art?  Who cares?  You don't HAVE to look at it if you don't want to and if you look at an "artsy" picture with the intent to get aroused go for it........if you look at a porno and view it artisticly cool!


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## boudoirsalon

I am a french photographer holding sensual workshops in my Bondi studios.

 Dont ask me to get an intellectual advice on this matter.
Images talk themselves, just words can kill them.
I'd like to convince everyone to go beyond his comfort zone.
  exploring the female forms is the best subject in photography. 
You create your own boundaries, or your model conduct how she wants to appear through your lens.
YES. Get a chance when you come to Sydney to join one of my workshop as an experience, a real revelation . You'll think great i have got a fantastic lens or i have got a true talent. 
Voila.. to give you an idea if you are curious my website is called "boudoirsalon"
Marie


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## RockDawg

Derrel said:


> ghpham said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RockDawg said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is SOOO true. I am always amazed at how often the "open-minded" don't have an open mind when it comes to "closed or narrow-minded" people's point of view. Oh sure, they have an open-mind when it comes to what other people should tolerate or accept, but shouldn't they, by virtue of their own beliefs, tolerate or accept other's so-called limited views?
> 
> As for the porn versus art topic, I'm generally among the more narrow-minded of view points. To me, most nudity that involves genitalia is more pornographic than art (with the exception of things like nude baby pictures). My thinking is that it is, by definition, sexual in nature. I know MANY people disagree and that's cool. We all have out own beliefs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm...so how is it that a picture of a nude baby is considered art, but a picture of a nude adult is porn?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Better watch out..or the prudes above will crucify you for mentioning the word baby and nude in the same post
Click to expand...


Obviously not, which would seem to indicate we aren't as narrow-minded as you. While we may be more judgmental than you when it comes to porn, we are obviously less judgmental than you when it comes to people. 



> ... LMFAO at some of the views here of these midwesterners who want to label anything they do not like as "porn". Totally fricking hilariously narrow-minded.



What is hilarious is your hypocrisy.  You mention "midwesterners".  Why?  You wouldn't be stereotyping would you?  Isn't stereotyping considered narrow-minded?  Just because I have a different view or belief than you I deserve to be scoffed at?  Again, I wonder how you can go around calling people narrow-minded when you aren't even open-minded enough to accept that people may have views different from you.

I also find it ironic that, in this controversial discussion that has been otherwise handled with class by everyone else involved, it is your "open-minded" posts that have brought negativity, condescension and acrimony.  Thank you for your contribution.


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## RockDawg

kundalini said:


> Eroticism uses chicken feathers.
> 
> Pornography uses the whole chicken.



This totally cracked me up!  Good one!! :lmao:


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## Garbz

Kyna said:


> A big question I have after reading all of these.........is if it is everyone's interpretation is there really a difference?  Does it have to be labeled porn or art?  Who cares?  You don't HAVE to look at it if you don't want to and if you look at an "artsy" picture with the intent to get aroused go for it........if you look at a porno and view it artisticly cool!



Unfortunately the people who care are the ones who often make your life a living hell. I mean it's all good for us to say e.g. that Bill Henson's pictures is in the eye of the beholder and it doesn't matter, but that didn't stop the police from raiding an exhibition of his and needing to defend a child pornography charge. 


What I find absolutely disgusting is the way we have morally destroyed the idea of the human body in our minds through the media. I mean there were limbs flying in every direction in Perl Harbor and blood and gore and terrible death throughout and it gets rated PG-13, a decaying thing crawls out of the TV in The Ring capable of giving grown men nightmares it also gets a PG rating, Nicole Kidman whips her boobs out in eyes-wide shut and it gets rated R.


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## Kyna

Yeah tv sensorship and ratings are a whole nother topic!    Sensorship BLA!


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## gsgary

You get tits and everthing on TV in the UK it's bloody great


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## skyy38

Light Artisan said:


> It's 100% interpretation... to some, a simple nipple is enough to be over the top - .............


 
Especially at the Super Bowl!


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## fcchloe

Hi all

I stumbled across this post- it made me smile, so I wanted to join up and show you my newbie website which addresses this exact question... I set it up especially to promote fetish as "Art" rather than "Pornography"- my goal is to change people's perceptions by showing off a Gallery full of work which I hope people will appreciate as Art.  The link is www.fetishcreatives.com 

The Gallery itself is full of member submissions which are all approved before going live... hope you like 

PS- apologies if load times are a little slow- I'm getting it fixed this week.


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## The_Traveler

ghpham said:


> GeorgieGirl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I seem to recall a picture of me as a youngster in the nude with my "tits", ass and pubic regions in full display.  So the only distinction is that I didn't smile "sexy" or act like a "sex kittens".  Is that the only distinction??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you like it rough, huh Baby?
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> How many of the responders who are pro nudity would get all upset if it was male nudity.
> Too many people just want to get a look at a pretty girl sans clothes.
Click to expand...


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## dutchlanderica

What's all the hoo-ha about naked bodies for?! 

If you've got it, flaunt it! It makes good money


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## cnutco

mishele said:


> erose86 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Schwettylens said:
> 
> 
> 
> Erose has a few samples.  Show them erose!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Schwetty... *STOP HACKING INTO MY COMPUTER!*
> 
> I told you that already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mishele said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Rose isn't going to show you the shots I took of her......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No I'm not... :greenpbl:
> 
> However... Mish, that is an INSANELY brilliant idea!  I mean... you're RIGHT down the street from me!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When it gets warmer out, we will have to do a bikini photo shoot.  :thumbup:
Click to expand...

 
Just thinking out load, but did it ever get warmer?


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## mishele

You never know what will be posted!! :greenpbl:
Rose would have to ok it though....=)


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## Mike_E

This is one of those 'know the tree from it's fruit' kind of deals.  If people just look then it's Art.  

If you get arrested then it's porn.


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## gsgary

I said i would post a few from today's shoot 
NSFW
http://gsgary.smugmug.com/photos/i-HhFWqqJ/0/L/i-HhFWqqJ-L.jpg

http://gsgary.smugmug.com/photos/i-k9jpspH/0/L/i-k9jpspH-L.jpg

http://gsgary.smugmug.com/photos/i-mm4j5gv/0/L/i-mm4j5gv-L.jpg

http://gsgary.smugmug.com/photos/i-69R6hmg/0/L/i-69R6hmg-L.jpg

http://gsgary.smugmug.com/photos/i-Vx52Qfp/0/L/i-Vx52Qfp-L.jpg

http://gsgary.smugmug.com/photos/i-zBSL53V/0/L/i-zBSL53V-L.jpg

http://gsgary.smugmug.com/photos/i-xKm69wK/0/L/i-xKm69wK-L.jpg


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