# Sony to stop producing DSLR?



## erotavlas

sonyalpharumors | Blog | (SR4) UPDATED: There is no A600, and there will be no DSLR camera anymore...

"According to that source the A600 rumor is fake and he goes also one step further saying that there is no plan within Sony to make a DSLR camera in future. This can of course change, but in the short and mid term you should not expect any new optical viewfinder in any Sony camera."

If the rumor is true I'm not surprised, the classic DSLR design is on its way out.


----------



## Overread

To be quite frank most camera rumours are not worth the type used to print them on the net. Canon Rumours has had "confirmed" rumours of things like a 100-400mm MII and a 24-70mm MII (often with IS) for years now - they've only just got the last one half right! In general most camera and most big companies don't have regular reliable leeks of info onto random blog sites. It generally does not happen and most rumour isn't worth paying too much attention too. 

As for the whole "DSLRs are on the way out" I highly doubt this. Mirrorless have a long way to  go before video input can equal or beat a mirror box (and be fitted economically inside a DSLR body).


----------



## cosmonaut

I agree there is just to big of a market for DSLRs, there are to many pros that will settle for nothing less. I think you will see less consumer based ones.  I just don't see pros shooting pro sports with an a77. I just wasn't made for that.


----------



## usayit

The same rumor exists for Olympus DSLRs....  especially since micro 4 3 systems have gained so much presence in other markets.

I personally like the micro 4 3, but have little interest in olympus DSLRs.


----------



## skieur

Overread said:


> As for the whole "DSLRs are on the way out" I highly doubt this. Mirrorless have a long way to go before video input can equal or beat a mirror box (and be fitted economically inside a DSLR body).



No, they do not have a long way to go in video, they are already there with A77 and will surpass that with the A99.  The DSLR mirror is starting to limit further development in terms of size, speed, less noise, less vibration, etc. The fact that it is a mechanical system in an electronic digital camera means that potential for obsolescence is quite high.

Sony made lead in that direction but if the marketplace reacts positively, then Nikon and Canon will follow suit, like they have done in the past.

skieur


----------



## gsgary

skieur said:


> Overread said:
> 
> 
> 
> As for the whole "DSLRs are on the way out" I highly doubt this. Mirrorless have a long way to go before video input can equal or beat a mirror box (and be fitted economically inside a DSLR body).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, they do not have a long way to go in video, they are already there with A77 and will surpass that with the A99.  The DSLR mirror is starting to limit further development in terms of size, speed, less noise, less vibration, etc. The fact that it is a mechanical system in an electronic digital camera means that potential for obsolescence is quite high.
> 
> Sony made lead in that direction but if the marketplace reacts positively, then Nikon and Canon will follow suit, like they have done in the past.
> 
> skieur
Click to expand...



Canon tried it and it was crap, last week i did a studio night and the only Sony user could not  see the subject  through his wonderful veiwfinder


----------



## cgipson1

I have seen that too..  a Sony user on a night walk was complaining that he couldn't see some subjects, and was asking some of us to hold flashlights so he could try to get some shots. lol! I suggested he get a Nikon!


----------



## o hey tyler

skieur said:


> Sony made lead in that direction but if the marketplace reacts positively, then Nikon and Canon will follow suit, like they have done in the past.
> 
> skieur



Canon invented the pellicle mirror several years ago. Who's following who now?


----------



## Nikon_Josh

skieur said:


> Overread said:
> 
> 
> 
> As for the whole "DSLRs are on the way out" I highly doubt this. Mirrorless have a long way to go before video input can equal or beat a mirror box (and be fitted economically inside a DSLR body).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, they do not have a long way to go in video, they are already there with A77 and will surpass that with the A99.  The DSLR mirror is starting to limit further development in terms of size, speed, less noise, less vibration, etc. The fact that it is a mechanical system in an electronic digital camera means that potential for obsolescence is quite high.
> 
> *Sony made lead in that direction but if the marketplace reacts positively, then Nikon and Canon will follow suit, like they have done in the past.*
> 
> skieur
Click to expand...


Soo now your claiming that Nikon and Canon have copied Sony in the past? Get a grip of yourself, Man! The new D4 is a copy is it? I don't know why your posts always have to go the route of downhill skiing.


----------



## kassad

Nikon_Josh said:


> skieur said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Overread said:
> 
> 
> 
> As for the whole "DSLRs are on the way out" I highly doubt this. Mirrorless have a long way to go before video input can equal or beat a mirror box (and be fitted economically inside a DSLR body).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, they do not have a long way to go in video, they are already there with A77 and will surpass that with the A99.  The DSLR mirror is starting to limit further development in terms of size, speed, less noise, less vibration, etc. The fact that it is a mechanical system in an electronic digital camera means that potential for obsolescence is quite high.
> 
> *Sony made lead in that direction but if the marketplace reacts positively, then Nikon and Canon will follow suit, like they have done in the past.*
> 
> skieur
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Soo now your claiming that Nikon and Canon have copied Sony in the past? Get a grip of yourself, Man! The new D4 is a copy is it? I don't know why your posts always have to go the route of downhill skiing.
Click to expand...


Yes the D4 is a copy of a Sony camera that is exactly what he's saying.  Come on don't be ridculous.   Why do you guy keep baiting these trolls?    As ridculous as Skiuer and Argy get, you and O Hey Tyler are getting just as disruptive.


----------



## Derrel

o hey tyler said:


> skieur said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sony made lead in that direction but if the marketplace reacts positively, then Nikon and Canon will follow suit, like they have done in the past.
> 
> skieur
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Canon invented the pellicle mirror several years ago. Who's following who now?
Click to expand...


Actually, I believe it was Nikon that introduced the FIRST pellicle-mirror-equipped SLR camera. Canon did produce a pellicle-mirrored SLR about two decades later, and they made ONE production run of it. Those EOS film cameras lingered on dealer shelves for eight or nine years. Meaning the model was a horrifically poor seller, and Canon EOS customers did not see any upside to the camera. The earlier Nikon pellicle mirror model was basically a way to get 2 more FPS out of a 1970's era F2 body. The Montreal Olympics,in 1976, keeps popping into my mind...

Canon and Nikon have figured out how to make counter-balancing and vibration-reducing mechanisms that tremendously lessen the forces of the mirror raising and lowering...it's one of the reasons both Canon and Nikon can make cameras that will fire at 8,9,10 frames per second, with virtually no ill effects. I suspect that the camera makers might have been inspired by the Japanese fishing and bicycle gear-maker SHIMANO, and their Dyna-Balance system, which turned the high-speed rotating motion and up and down oscillating motion of spinning reels from a wobbly, feel-killing mess, into a smooth, almost perfect balance and cancellation of opposing forces of the spool rising and lowering and the encircling rotor's rotating...when Dyna-Balance was invented, it revolutionized the fishing reel industry. That was in 1990 as I recall.

Never underestimate the mechanical engineering prowess of the Japanese camera designers. The pellicle mirror has been measured, and found wanting. Multiple times. Sony is using it to mace a lower-cost camera body that needs no mirror balancing system,and as a way to get to high firing rates, as a way to lure prosumers to their brand.


----------



## kassad

erotavlas said:


> sonyalpharumors | Blog | (SR4) UPDATED: There is no A600, and there will be no DSLR camera anymore...
> 
> "According to that source the A600 rumor is fake and he goes also one step further saying that there is no plan within Sony to make a DSLR camera in future. This can of course change, but in the short and mid term you should not expect any new optical viewfinder in any Sony camera."
> 
> If the rumor is true I'm not surprised, the classic DSLR design is on its way out.




I would be suprised if this rumor isn't true.   While I don't think DSLR is going away anytime soon on higher end bodies, I think mirrorless designs will continue to eat into the market share of lower end dslrs.  I'm not sure how well Sony's SLTs will fair in the long run but I suspect the Sony Nex 7 might be a glimpse forward.


----------



## o hey tyler

Derrel said:


> Actually, I believe it was Nikon that introduced the FIRST pellicle-mirror-equipped SLR camera. Canon did produce a pellicle-mirrored SLR about two decades later, and they made ONE production run of it.



From Wikipedia: 



> The first camera to employ the pellicle mirror as a beam splitter was the Canon Pellix, launched by Canon Camera Company Inc. Japan in 1965.




Further along in the article... 




> The next 35mm SLR camera to employ the pellicle mirror was the Canon F-1 High Speed, made available in the event of the 1972 Olympic games, the object being rapid series photography, difficult at the time to obtain with a moving mirror.




and Nikon comes in...




> Nippon Kogaku KK, Japan introduced their high-speed Nikon F2H in 1976. The mirror is a pellicle rather than a conventional front surfaced mirror that swings out of the light path when the exposure is made.




Here is the provided list of cameras: 



Canon
Pellix QL (1965)
F-1 High Speed (LE for the 1972 Olympics)
EOS RT (1989)
EOS 1N RS (1994)

Nikon
F2 HS
F3 HS (Introduced for the 1998 Nagano Olympics)

Perhaps you know of an additional Nikon that wasn't mentioned in the article. After all it IS Wikipedia...


----------



## DiskoJoe

I doubt sony go to only making mirrorless cameras. Sony is an electronics producer and will keep producing dslr's as long as they sell. They may be trying to get a bigger piece of the mirrorless and 4/3 markets but it would be stupid for a billion dollar company to completely abandon the whole dslr market. Even if they dont lead the market they are still getting a pretty nice piece of it.


----------



## Derrel

Oh, sorry, my mistake!!!! The Canon Pellix...yes...that was the first production 35mm pellicle mirror SLR, and the thing never took off. Now that you mention the Pellix, I remember some on-line accounts of Pellix users.  The Pellix lasted for one year, then was replaced by the Pellix QL, which had the Canon "Quick Load" system,designed to appeal to those were not confident in their ability to load a regular 35mm camera by putting a leader into a slit in a take-up spool. It is hard to appreciate it now, but Canon's 1960's cameras were largely kind of junky. Many of the Pellix bodies broke down well before their time,from what I have heard.

The Pellix had no option for a motor drive nor for a winder. 

Like Sony today, Canon was just a mid-line SLR camera maker in 1965, stuck in the pack with Pentax and Minolta and Petri,and that ilk of camera makers. It's hard to over-state how far they have come since the Pellix days. But yes, they did make the "Pellix", which was not very popular, nor successful. I'm not saying this to be hostile toward Canon, but in 1965, Canon as a camera maker was a lot like SONY--trying to take on a market with bigger and better-selling and just "better" competitors with better models. It's not surprising that Canon tried something that was radically new, and different, but which was not really destined to succeed. Heck, I had forgotten about the Pellix...it was kind of like that movie with Afflec and Jolie...basically stillborn. Canon introduced the QL or Quick Load system in 1966...as a way to try and get end-users to believe they could load their fancy 35mm SLR cameras. I think SONY is trying some of the same methods, as a "new maker", to try and stimulate sales. 

Nikon had a high-speed 7 frames per second camera at the 1972, Sapporo, Japan Olympics. It was called the Nikon F HighSpeed Sapporo, but it had a mirror that was locked up, and then an accessory finder was used.

Then, in 1974, Nikon produced a limited run of another F variant, The Nikon F HighSpeed Montreal, which went to 9 frames per second. THIS model is the one used later, in 1976, at the Montreal Olympics. 

There were also 7 Nikon F Motor Pellicle cameras used at the 1976 Montreal Olympics.

The Nikon F2 HighSpeed Model 1, was introduced at Photkina 1978, and NOT in 1976, which Wikipedia wrongly states.

There was also a Nikon F2 HighSpeed Model II, not mentioned by Wikipedia.

The Complete Nikon System, by Peter Braczko, is where this information came from. 

Canon and Nikon's pellicle mirror cameras were all basically technical marvels--but they never really DID ANYTHING great, sales-wise. Sony latching on to the decades-old, failed camera making ideas of the past...where will it lead Sony? One of the things research shows is that the mirrorless camera sales in JAPAN were pretty good last year, but in the USA were not so good. DPreview has a good article on sales of mirrorless cameras, posted a day or two ago. SONY might want to try and sew up the mirrorless market, before Canon's missing mirrorless model hits the streets. SOny bailing on the d-slr market??? I suppose they could. They have consumer electronics and video games to bail themselves out.


----------



## kassad

DiskoJoe said:


> I doubt sony go to only making mirrorless cameras. Sony is an electronics producer and will keep producing dslr's as long as they sell. They may be trying to get a bigger piece of the mirrorless and 4/3 markets but it would be stupid for a billion dollar company to completely abandon the whole dslr market. Even if they dont lead the market they are still getting a pretty nice piece of it.



They are going with DSLT like the a55 and a77 rather than DSLR.


----------



## DiskoJoe

kassad said:


> DiskoJoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> I doubt sony go to only making mirrorless cameras. Sony is an electronics producer and will keep producing dslr's as long as they sell. They may be trying to get a bigger piece of the mirrorless and 4/3 markets but it would be stupid for a billion dollar company to completely abandon the whole dslr market. Even if they dont lead the market they are still getting a pretty nice piece of it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are going with DSLT like the a55 and a77 rather than DSLR.
Click to expand...


The article read....


"One of my trusted sources just sent me a quick note saying that the A600 rumor posted by C.Garrard  isn&#8217;t correct. According to that source the A600 rumor is fake and he  goes also one step further saying that there is no plan within Sony to make a DSLR camera in future. This can of course change, but in the short and mid term you should not expect any new optical viewfinder in any Sony camera."

This is a rumor and is saying more that they do not have anything on the board and not we are going to stop making these because there is no money in them any longer. Do you realize how much money they have invested in manufacturing alone? To just stop making them if finacially and realistically unfeasible. This is why it is only a rumor at this time.


----------



## kassad

DiskoJoe said:


> kassad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DiskoJoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> I doubt sony go to only making mirrorless cameras. Sony is an electronics producer and will keep producing dslr's as long as they sell. They may be trying to get a bigger piece of the mirrorless and 4/3 markets but it would be stupid for a billion dollar company to completely abandon the whole dslr market. Even if they dont lead the market they are still getting a pretty nice piece of it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are going with DSLT like the a55 and a77 rather than DSLR.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The article read....
> 
> 
> "One of my trusted sources just sent me a quick note saying that the A600 rumor posted by C.Garrard  isn&#8217;t correct. According to that source the A600 rumor is fake and he  goes also one step further saying that there is no plan within Sony to make a DSLR camera in future. This can of course change, but in the short and mid term you should not expect any new optical viewfinder in any Sony camera."
> 
> This is a rumor and is saying more that they do not have anything on the board and not we are going to stop making these because there is no money in them any longer. Do you realize how much money they have invested in manufacturing alone? To just stop making them if finacially and realistically unfeasible. This is why it is only a rumor at this time.
Click to expand...


I'm not suggesting they are only going with mirrorless.  They will definitely keep the DSLT lines.

If you follow SAR for the last year, along with statements Sony released  when the a77 was released they are pretty clear about dropping DSLRs  for DSLTs.    (Terminology can be tricky on SAR and most Sony/Minolta  forums DSLR and DSLT are not interchangeable.)   No more cameras with  reflex mirrors and optical viewfinders.   The last one they had active  was the a580 and that has been removed from their site.   The a600 along  with the a770 the a990 are all wish listing rumors by people who want  reflex OVF camera.    For the record I would love to see them release a  true DSLR enthusiast and/or Full Frame.   I'm not getting my hopes up.


----------



## MLeeK

Sony hasn't busted their ass to become the #3 camera choice for nothing. They're in it for the long haul.


----------



## skieur

gsgary said:


> skieur said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Overread said:
> 
> 
> 
> As for the whole "DSLRs are on the way out" I highly doubt this. Mirrorless have a long way to go before video input can equal or beat a mirror box (and be fitted economically inside a DSLR body).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, they do not have a long way to go in video, they are already there with A77 and will surpass that with the A99. The DSLR mirror is starting to limit further development in terms of size, speed, less noise, less vibration, etc. The fact that it is a mechanical system in an electronic digital camera means that potential for obsolescence is quite high.
> 
> Sony made lead in that direction but if the marketplace reacts positively, then Nikon and Canon will follow suit, like they have done in the past.
> 
> skieur
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Canon tried it and it was crap, last week i did a studio night and the only Sony user could not see the subject  through his wonderful veiwfinder
Click to expand...


You really are misleading.  Canon tried it a while ago without the OLED viewfinder and any of the improvements that Sony used.  Why are you also reluctant to provide details as to model and situation.  PROBABLY TO CONTINUE TO BE MISLEADING!!

skieur


----------



## kassad

This is from SAR posted today

Whatdigitalcamera (Click here) questioned if Sony is still committed to the DSLR technology: _With  all of the major releases throughout 2011 being of the translucent   mirror (SLT) variety, could this spell the end of Sony DSLRs as we know   them?_
 Sony contacted Whatdigitalcamera and said that _we are absolutely committed to the DSLR / SLT market._ *The first thing to notice is that Sony mixed the DSLR/SLT terms. Sony didnt just say We are commited to the DSLR market.  Sounds like their intention is to sell the idea that SLT and DSLR are  the same thing.* And the other statement that follows confirms that: _Through  our SLT  cameras we believe we can deliver new benefits such as  fastframe rate  with continuous AF in both stills and videos. The a77 is  proof of how  serious we are about this market and the number of  awards, including the  What Digital Camera Gold award and the  prestigious Amateur Photographer  Reader Product of the Year show that  this is model is rated very  highly.  Stock is now available and we are  excited to find out what  people think when theybuy, own and use this  product_.

 Why talk about the A77 when Whatdigitalcamera was only talking about  the discontinued DSLR line? Truth is that all DSLR are officially not  listed on Sonys websites:
Sony A900 at Amazon, Sonystore, Adorama, B&H, J&R, eBay.
Sony A850 at Amazon, Sonystore, Adorama, B&H, J&R, eBay.
Sony A580 at Amazon, Sonystore, Adorama, B&H, J&R, eBay.
 I still hope I misunderstood the Sony statement and that there we be  really new DSLR cameras (with optical viewfinder!). But according to our  sources there is no new DSLR coming this year


----------



## skieur

cgipson1 said:


> I have seen that too.. a Sony user on a night walk was complaining that he couldn't see some subjects, and was asking some of us to hold flashlights so he could try to get some shots. lol! I suggested he get a Nikon!



He probably was not using the viewfinder or the viewfinder was NOT the OLED.:lmao::lmao:

Gee, you guys love to be misleading as in NO DETAILS

skieur


----------



## skieur

I would suggest that if Sony is dropping the DSLR, then the A99 will probably be several leaps ahead of the A77 as a full frame 36meg. camera with no bayer filter on the sensor.

skieur


----------



## skieur

Nikon_Josh said:


> skieur said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Overread said:
> 
> 
> 
> As for the whole "DSLRs are on the way out" I highly doubt this. Mirrorless have a long way to go before video input can equal or beat a mirror box (and be fitted economically inside a DSLR body).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, they do not have a long way to go in video, they are already there with A77 and will surpass that with the A99. The DSLR mirror is starting to limit further development in terms of size, speed, less noise, less vibration, etc. The fact that it is a mechanical system in an electronic digital camera means that potential for obsolescence is quite high.
> 
> *Sony made lead in that direction but if the marketplace reacts positively, then Nikon and Canon will follow suit, like they have done in the past.*
> 
> skieur
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Soo now your claiming that Nikon and Canon have copied Sony in the past? Get a grip of yourself, Man! The new D4 is a copy is it? I don't know why your posts always have to go the route of downhill skiing.
Click to expand...


Gee, your posts demonstrate your ignorance!  Where do you think LIVE VIEW came from??...Sony

skieur


----------



## o hey tyler

skieur said:


> Nikon_Josh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> skieur said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, they do not have a long way to go in video, they are already there with A77 and will surpass that with the A99. The DSLR mirror is starting to limit further development in terms of size, speed, less noise, less vibration, etc. The fact that it is a mechanical system in an electronic digital camera means that potential for obsolescence is quite high.
> 
> *Sony made lead in that direction but if the marketplace reacts positively, then Nikon and Canon will follow suit, like they have done in the past.*
> 
> skieur
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soo now your claiming that Nikon and Canon have copied Sony in the past? Get a grip of yourself, Man! The new D4 is a copy is it? I don't know why your posts always have to go the route of downhill skiing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gee, your posts demonstrate your ignorance!  Where do you think LIVE VIEW came from??...Sony
> 
> skieur
Click to expand...


Care to cite facts on that? 

From wikipedia: 



> The first DSLR to use live view for framing preview only was the fixed-lens Olympus E-10 from 2000. The first interchangeable-lens DSLR to use a live preview was the Fujifilm FinePix S3 Pro, which was launched in October 2004.[SUP][2][/SUP] Its "Live Image" mode could display a live, black-and-white preview of the subject that could be magnified for manual focusing purposes, although the preview was limited to a duration of thirty seconds.[SUP][3][/SUP] It was followed in early 2005 by the Canon EOS 20Da, a special version of the Canon EOS 20D with modifications for astrophotography, which included a similar focus preview feature.


----------



## usayit

I think he is referring to the Sony Camcorder which had something considered "live viewish" way before DSLRs.....  Sony was an early (the first ?) to deliver a consumer focused camcorder to the marketplace.    Live preview in DSLRs was primarily driven by the emergence video functionality in a DSLR.

BUT!!!!

Remember Sony did not really become a major player in Still photography until the acquisition of Minolta much later than the camcorder.... so I wouldn't make Sony out to be the trend setter... far from it.  In fact, this acquisition didn't occur until 2006.   By that time, there were numerous DSLRs already with live view.


----------



## zamanakhan

to be honest i could care less, sony dslr's are nothing special, when their dslrs are nice their optics are far behind nikon's. It is nice to have competitors for your main brand tho as it keeps the pressure on them.


I have never used sony dslr's but have used tons of previous products they've come out with, they were all annoying had crap software and everything was propriatary. Memory stick format, sonic stage, mini discs were nice but large and expensive for the time, and they still used sonic stage. 

If sony got rid of propriatary formats and crappy software they could have some great products.


----------



## Nikon_Josh

skieur said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> skieur said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, they do not have a long way to go in video, they are already there with A77 and will surpass that with the A99. The DSLR mirror is starting to limit further development in terms of size, speed, less noise, less vibration, etc. The fact that it is a mechanical system in an electronic digital camera means that potential for obsolescence is quite high.
> 
> Sony made lead in that direction but if the marketplace reacts positively, then Nikon and Canon will follow suit, like they have done in the past.
> 
> skieur
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Canon tried it and it was crap, last week i did a studio night and the only Sony user could not see the subject  through his wonderful veiwfinder
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You really are misleading.  Canon tried it a while ago without the OLED viewfinder and any of the improvements that Sony used.  Why are you also reluctant to provide details as to model and situation.  PROBABLY TO CONTINUE TO BE MISLEADING!!
> 
> skieur
Click to expand...


Gary hasnt misled people into believing he is a professional photographer though, his photographic skills are VERY VERY GOOD! He is the pro that you wish you were pal.


----------



## Nikon_Josh

kassad said:


> Nikon_Josh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> skieur said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, they do not have a long way to go in video, they are already there with A77 and will surpass that with the A99.  The DSLR mirror is starting to limit further development in terms of size, speed, less noise, less vibration, etc. The fact that it is a mechanical system in an electronic digital camera means that potential for obsolescence is quite high.
> 
> *Sony made lead in that direction but if the marketplace reacts positively, then Nikon and Canon will follow suit, like they have done in the past.*
> 
> skieur
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soo now your claiming that Nikon and Canon have copied Sony in the past? Get a grip of yourself, Man! The new D4 is a copy is it? I don't know why your posts always have to go the route of downhill skiing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes the D4 is a copy of a Sony camera that is exactly what he's saying.  Come on don't be ridculous.   Why do you guy keep baiting these trolls?    As ridculous as Skiuer and Argy get, you and O Hey Tyler are getting just as disruptive.
Click to expand...


 You may be right, but I get sick of complete FAKES coming onto the internet showing us test charts all the time. Argie only takes photographs when it's warm outside and SKIER is a professional photographer WITHOUT a website or any form of evidence that he is a working pro apart from bizarre stories.


----------



## argieramos

Nikon_Josh said:


> kassad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nikon_Josh said:
> 
> 
> 
> Soo now your claiming that Nikon and Canon have copied Sony in the past? Get a grip of yourself, Man! The new D4 is a copy is it? I don't know why your posts always have to go the route of downhill skiing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes the D4 is a copy of a Sony camera that is exactly what he's saying.  Come on don't be ridculous.   Why do you guy keep baiting these trolls?    As ridculous as Skiuer and Argy get, you and O Hey Tyler are getting just as disruptive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You may be right, but I get sick of complete FAKES coming onto the internet showing us test charts all the time. Argie only takes photographs when it's warm outside and SKIER is a professional photographer WITHOUT a website or any form of evidence that he is a working pro apart from bizarre stories.
Click to expand...


And Nikon Josh who like sending private message to young men, and get mad if ignored. lol...


----------



## Nikon_Josh

argieramos said:


> Nikon_Josh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kassad said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes the D4 is a copy of a Sony camera that is exactly what he's saying.  Come on don't be ridculous.   Why do you guy keep baiting these trolls?    As ridculous as Skiuer and Argy get, you and O Hey Tyler are getting just as disruptive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You may be right, but I get sick of complete FAKES coming onto the internet showing us test charts all the time. Argie only takes photographs when it's warm outside and SKIER is a professional photographer WITHOUT a website or any form of evidence that he is a working pro apart from bizarre stories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And Nikon Josh who like sending private message to young men, and get mad if ignored. lol...
Click to expand...


Nyehehehehehehe! lol lol lol lol


----------



## argieramos

Nikon_Josh said:


> argieramos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nikon_Josh said:
> 
> 
> 
> You may be right, but I get sick of complete FAKES coming onto the internet showing us test charts all the time. Argie only takes photographs when it's warm outside and SKIER is a professional photographer WITHOUT a website or any form of evidence that he is a working pro apart from bizarre stories.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And Nikon Josh who like sending private message to young men, and get mad if ignored. lol...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nyehehehehehehe! lol lol lol lol
Click to expand...


Funny ha? More like creepy.... lol


----------



## Forkie

I'm not even sure I want mirrorless cameras.  I love the feeling of holding a DSLR in my hands and hearing the "chickuck" of the mirror.  That's all part of the awesomeness.


----------



## usayit

Forkie said:


> I'm not even sure I want mirrorless cameras.  I love the feeling of holding a DSLR in my hands and hearing the "chickuck" of the mirror.  That's all part of the awesomeness.



That's what I said about the film advance lever.... even had one on a digital camera once (Epson R-D1)....  

I got really strange looks from people when I said that.  Especially from the younger photogs who have never had the pleasure of shooting film w/ a manual camera.  




PS> Micro 4 3 cameras still have shutters so you still get that noise of affirmation.... unlike many P&S.


----------



## skieur

o hey tyler said:


> skieur said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nikon_Josh said:
> 
> 
> 
> Soo now your claiming that Nikon and Canon have copied Sony in the past? Get a grip of yourself, Man! The new D4 is a copy is it? I don't know why your posts always have to go the route of downhill skiing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gee, your posts demonstrate your ignorance! Where do you think LIVE VIEW came from??...Sony
> 
> skieur
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Care to cite facts on that?
> 
> From wikipedia:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The first DSLR to use live view for framing preview only was the fixed-lens Olympus E-10 from 2000. The first interchangeable-lens DSLR to use a live preview was the Fujifilm FinePix S3 Pro, which was launched in October 2004.[SUP][2][/SUP] Its "Live Image" mode could display a live, black-and-white preview of the subject that could be magnified for manual focusing purposes, although the preview was limited to a duration of thirty seconds.[SUP][3][/SUP] It was followed in early 2005 by the Canon EOS 20Da, a special version of the Canon EOS 20D with modifications for astrophotography, which included a similar focus preview feature.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Well, now you want to argue over definitions. Live View is colour, on/off switch, autofocus and exposure simulation. Anything else is just PREVIEW function. Actually I believe the first camera with live view was Minolta in 2003.

Nevertheless before 2008, there were only a few cameras with limited versions of the PREVIEW mode limited version of "live view". Suddenly after the advent of a true live view on the Sony A300, Nikon and Canon started incorporating some version of live view on almost all their cameras because the marketplace demanded it and it was included as a review issue in photo magazine evaluations.
Sony is still regarded as having the best implimentation of a full live view system.

skieur


----------



## skieur

argieramos said:


> Nikon_Josh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kassad said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes the D4 is a copy of a Sony camera that is exactly what he's saying. Come on don't be ridculous. Why do you guy keep baiting these trolls? As ridculous as Skiuer and Argy get, you and O Hey Tyler are getting just as disruptive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You may be right, but I get sick of complete FAKES coming onto the internet showing us test charts all the time. Argie only takes photographs when it's warm outside and SKIER is a professional photographer WITHOUT a website or any form of evidence that he is a working pro apart from bizarre stories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And Nikon Josh who like sending private message to young men, and get mad if ignored. lol...
Click to expand...


Josh, since you CAN'T EVEN SPELL or TYPE CORRECTLY, for the third time it is SKIEUR  SKIEUR  SKIEUR,  you could not find a web site if you tripped over it.
:lmao::lmao:

SKIEUR


----------



## Nikon_Josh

skieur said:


> argieramos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nikon_Josh said:
> 
> 
> 
> You may be right, but I get sick of complete FAKES coming onto the internet showing us test charts all the time. Argie only takes photographs when it's warm outside and SKIER is a professional photographer WITHOUT a website or any form of evidence that he is a working pro apart from bizarre stories.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And Nikon Josh who like sending private message to young men, and get mad if ignored. lol...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Josh, since you CAN'T EVEN SPELL or TYPE CORRECTLY, for the third time it is SKIEUR  SKIEUR  SKIEUR,  you could not find a web site if you tripped over it.
> :lmao::lmao:
> 
> SKIEUR
Click to expand...


Yep! And as I have told you on many occasions.. to ME you are the 'Downhill Skier' of this forum. So I now know you as SKIER!  Your posts seem to go down a very slippery slope! Provide us with some photos that actually show that you are PRO photographer? Please? You claim to be a pro, back it up please.


----------



## Rhodes454

To the original point.  I honestly believe that eventually there will be no moving parts within the camera body. This just seems like the way technology goes. Look at how far things have come since the first DSLRs, and that's a really short timeframe. It may take a few false starts, but it will happen.


----------



## skieur

Rhodes454 said:


> To the original point. I honestly believe that eventually there will be no moving parts within the camera body. This just seems like the way technology goes. Look at how far things have come since the first DSLRs, and that's a really short timeframe. It may take a few false starts, but it will happen.



You are absolutely correct, and that is the direction of technology.  Any pro who wants to be successful stays ahead of change and is not obsessed by the past.

skieur


----------



## cgipson1

Well, when either Nikon or Canon put out a REAL and "Professionally Useful" implementation of this technology, then the "PRO's" will probably start taking it seriously....


----------



## skieur

cgipson1 said:


> Well, when either Nikon or Canon put out a REAL and "Professionally Useful" implementation of this technology, then the "PRO's" will probably start taking it seriously....



The same pros who are starting to take film and black and white seriously.

skieur


----------



## rexbobcat

skieur said:


> Rhodes454 said:
> 
> 
> 
> To the original point. I honestly believe that eventually there will be no moving parts within the camera body. This just seems like the way technology goes. Look at how far things have come since the first DSLRs, and that's a really short timeframe. It may take a few false starts, but it will happen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are absolutely correct, and that is the direction of technology.  Any pro who wants to be successful stays ahead of change and is not obsessed by the past.
> 
> skieur
Click to expand...


I don't want to get into the argument, but that's like saying that the gear is what makes the photographer...

I know several portrait photographers who use large format view cameras. Does that make them less of a pro because their camera doesn't have everything and the kitchen sink? Nope. It just means that they are more deliberate and skillful than probably 70% of DSLR/DSLT users.


----------



## gsgary

skieur said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, when either Nikon or Canon put out a REAL and "Professionally Useful" implementation of this technology, then the "PRO's" will probably start taking it seriously....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The same pros who are starting to take film and black and white seriously.
> 
> skieur
Click to expand...



There are still lots of pro's shooting film


----------



## Rhodes454

gsgary said:


> There are still lots of pro's shooting film


   Yes, there are. I am by no means a pro myself, but even I am on the lookout for a good film body (FM2 or FM3A, or even a Leica if I can find one that I can afford). But the market for the big manufacturers is to sell lots of DSLRs to as wide a base as possible and to reduce manufacturing complexity in the interests of profit, time and reliability. At some stage, electronics and software will take over from mechanics, as they have in many other areas, and then moving shutters and mirrors will gradually become obsolete - they are already considered the "weak" point of the system (they are, after all, the main limiting factor for the maker's guarantee).


----------



## SCraig

gsgary said:


> There are still lots of pro's shooting film


That may be the case, but it won't be for much longer.  Anyone can process film in their own darkroom, but without a viable source of film and paper that arena of photography is doomed.  It may take a while longer but at some point the manufacturers are going to see it as a profitless direction and the sources of film and paper will dry up. Kodachrome is gone, Ektachrome is going, and there will be more to follow.  I'm of the opinion that those who claimed that digital would replace film were the only ones that ever got a photographic rumor correct.

I'm also of the opinion that at some point mirrorless cameras will take over the market and the SLR as we know it will fade away.  It won't be any time soon but it is inevitable that it will happen sooner or later.  Decades ago, when reflex cameras came into being, they were the only viable method for seeing what the lens actually seeing.  The other alternative were "View Cameras" in which the film was put in place after the camera was focused.  These days, what does it really matter?  Does it matter in the slightest whether what we see through the viewfinder is actually through the lens or if it is an electronic "Copy" of what is on the sensor?  After all, that electronic "Copy" is what is actually going to be the final image so in reality the mirrorless cameras are providing a more true representation of what the final captured image will look like.

As to whether or not Sony will end production of DSLR cameras, all I can say is that if they do it will REALLY piss off both of the people who bought one


----------



## skieur

rexbobcat said:


> skieur said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rhodes454 said:
> 
> 
> 
> To the original point. I honestly believe that eventually there will be no moving parts within the camera body. This just seems like the way technology goes. Look at how far things have come since the first DSLRs, and that's a really short timeframe. It may take a few false starts, but it will happen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are absolutely correct, and that is the direction of technology. Any pro who wants to be successful stays ahead of change and is not obsessed by the past.
> 
> skieur
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't want to get into the argument, but that's like saying that the gear is what makes the photographer...
> 
> I know several portrait photographers who use large format view cameras. Does that make them less of a pro because their camera doesn't have everything and the kitchen sink? Nope. It just means that they are more deliberate and skillful than probably 70% of DSLR/DSLT users.
Click to expand...


Large format view cameras fit the needs of some portrait photographers, particularly if they are working in a studio and if that is the only kind of photography they are doing. Taking one out on location to another country or doing sports photography with it is something however that most would not even attempt. You also realize of course that the market for large format view cameras is limited to say the least.

However those pros that shoot on location would love a smaller interchangeable lens camera as silent as the Leica rangefinder M series, with continuous shooting not limited by the mirror, without the need for a tripod, remote, and flipping the mirror up to avoid vibration, with a viewfinder that allows you to see the effect of your auto or manual exposure settings, with exposure readings directly off the sensor, with ISO into the 100,000 area, with no Bayer filter on the sensor, no need for anti-aliasing, flash sync at any shutterspeed, a much cheaper price....the list goes on. The point is that if the camera makers see the market expanding for mirror-less cameras, then that is where the new features and technology will go.

You can see from the present marketplace that in a tight market, few pros that work on location or in several locations want to be at a technological disadvantage related to their competition. (That is of course, assuming that they want to be successful from a financial perspective.)

skieur


----------



## Nikon_Josh

rexbobcat said:


> skieur said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rhodes454 said:
> 
> 
> 
> To the original point. I honestly believe that eventually there will be no moving parts within the camera body. This just seems like the way technology goes. Look at how far things have come since the first DSLRs, and that's a really short timeframe. It may take a few false starts, but it will happen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are absolutely correct, and that is the direction of technology.  Any pro who wants to be successful stays ahead of change and is not obsessed by the past.
> 
> skieur
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't want to get into the argument, but that's like saying that the gear is what makes the photographer...
> 
> I know several portrait photographers who use large format view cameras. Does that make them less of a pro because their camera doesn't have everything and the kitchen sink? Nope. It just means that they are more deliberate and skillful than probably 70% of DSLR/DSLT users.
Click to expand...


Thank you Rexbob for pointing out how Skieur is completely Wrong again, he is now claiming that all pros need to stay ahead of technology curve too remain at the top of their game!! :lmao: hahahahaha Cameras are so good nowadays, 99% of people can not even use these cameras to their full potential. It really is now, down to the skill of the photographer, NOT staying ahead of technological curves.


----------



## 2WheelPhoto

if its posted on the Internetz, it has to be true


----------



## skieur

Well, if you are working at the low end, Nikon Josh, then the skill of the photographer does make a difference because there are a lot of new pros with minimal skills entering the field.

If you are working closer toward the high end, then those who have got to this level are already highly skilled or they would not be able to charge what they do and be successful. As I said before, it is here that new cameras are bought every 3 years or less and medium format equipment, studios etc. are rented when necessary. This is where the details and differences distinguish the work of one photographer from another and staying ahead of the tech curve with style and skill is the way to become successful and stay that way.

skieur


----------



## rexbobcat

SCraig said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are still lots of pro's shooting film
> 
> 
> 
> That may be the case, but it won't be for much longer.  Anyone can process film in their own darkroom, but without a viable source of film and paper that arena of photography is doomed.  It may take a while longer but at some point the manufacturers are going to see it as a profitless direction and the sources of film and paper will dry up. Kodachrome is gone, Ektachrome is going, and there will be more to follow.  I'm of the opinion that those who claimed that digital would replace film were the only ones that ever got a photographic rumor correct.
> 
> I'm also of the opinion that at some point mirrorless cameras will take over the market and the SLR as we know it will fade away.  It won't be any time soon but it is inevitable that it will happen sooner or later.  Decades ago, when reflex cameras came into being, they were the only viable method for seeing what the lens actually seeing.  The other alternative were "View Cameras" in which the film was put in place after the camera was focused.  These days, what does it really matter?  Does it matter in the slightest whether what we see through the viewfinder is actually through the lens or if it is an electronic "Copy" of what is on the sensor?  After all, that electronic "Copy" is what is actually going to be the final image so in reality the mirrorless cameras are providing a more true representation of what the final captured image will look like.
> 
> As to whether or not Sony will end production of DSLR cameras, all I can say is that if they do it will REALLY piss off both of the people who bought one
Click to expand...


The viewfinder issue matters to me. Just like with EVFs on video cameras, the EVFs on DSLTs give inaccurate noise/gain in the viewfinder as opposed to what is present in the final image, so one could argue that in all but the most ideal environments the EVFs are actually "lying" to the photographer.

I'd much rather squint to see my subject than having to squint while also having to try and not be distracted by the grey speckles where the blacks should be. When they can resolve this issue, I'll jump on the bandwagon.

I was actually considering a Sony because I want video autofocus, but I don't have any Sony lenses, and don't want to buy Sony lenses.


----------



## cgipson1

skieur said:


> You can see from the present marketplace that in a tight market, *few pros that work on location or in several locations want to be at a technological disadvantage related to their competition.* (That is of course, assuming that they want to be successful from a financial perspective.)
> 
> skieur



I guess that is why so few PRO's use SONY!


----------



## jsirevaag

I'm jumping off the Sony bandwagon this year. As a A700 user I was impressed by the quality of photos I was able to create with this robust camera but now that the entire line is being "upgraded" to SLT technology, I'm no longer interested in playing their game. Sony was a great value compared to other high-end DSLR's for a while but the move to SLT leaves me wondering why they haven't gone fully mirrorless like with their NEX series. I've decided to buy into Fuji's experiment with the X-Pro 1 because I believe eliminating the reflex mirror is the next logical step in pro-photography. Mirrors are loud, vibration-inducing and now a relic of the past as direct-view cameras are coming to market with usable resolution and features. Sony's SLT mirror is just another stumbling-block in the light-path of the imaging sensor. Fuji was kind enough to include an eye-level optical finder (that switches to EVF) for guys like me who use them extensively. I'm sad to see Sony using this "bridge" technology between the DSLR and mirrorless camera because the cameras remain bulky and have low-light performance issues. 

Sony: go full-throttle into mirrorless or find a way to make the DSLR more relevant to the future of photography. SLT may just be an incredible waste of time and resources.


----------



## SCraig

rexbobcat said:


> The viewfinder issue matters to me. Just like with EVFs on video cameras, the EVFs on DSLTs give inaccurate noise/gain in the viewfinder as opposed to what is present in the final image, so one could argue that in all but the most ideal environments the EVFs are actually "lying" to the photographer.
> 
> I'd much rather squint to see my subject than having to squint while also having to try and not be distracted by the grey speckles where the blacks should be. When they can resolve this issue, I'll jump on the bandwagon.
> 
> I was actually considering a Sony because I want video autofocus, but I don't have any Sony lenses, and don't want to buy Sony lenses.


Give 'em time.  There's a lot to be said FOR electronic viewfinders once the manufacturers figure out neat ways to use them.  Live histograms superimposed down in the corner, blinking blown highlights and blocked shadows before even taking the shot, etc.  It took a while for DSLR's to reach the maturity they are at now and when (if?) the focus of the mainstream consumer moves in the direction of mirrorless cameras it's hard to guess at what the next generation of photographers will have to play with.

Having been around long enough to see most of the changes in cameras in the past 50 years or so it's really hard to imagine what the next 50 will bring, and how photographers will be discussing the relics we had to deal with in the early 21st century.  The things that so many people take for granted today were not even conceived of not that long ago.  Enjoy the revolution!


----------



## skieur

rexbobcat said:


> SCraig said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are still lots of pro's shooting film
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I want video autofocus, but I don't have any Sony lenses, and don't want to buy Sony lenses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, if you really want sharp lenses buy Zeiss lenses.  The Sony G lenses are Minolta glass which is certainly excellent quality as well.
> 
> skieur
Click to expand...


----------



## skieur

cgipson1 said:


> skieur said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can see from the present marketplace that in a tight market, *few pros that work on location or in several locations want to be at a technological disadvantage related to their competition.* (That is of course, assuming that they want to be successful from a financial perspective.)
> 
> skieur
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess that is why so few PRO's use SONY!
Click to expand...


Well, if Colorado is your area of comparison....

skieur


----------



## belial

skieur said:
			
		

> You are absolutely correct, and that is the direction of technology.  Any pro who wants to be successful stays ahead of change and is not obsessed by the past.
> 
> skieur



False. Most successful pros stay with the tried and true and many still use old film cameras. Technology chasers tend to be for the most part your noobs that think a more advanced system will make them better photographers


----------



## cgipson1

skieur said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> skieur said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can see from the present marketplace that in a tight market, *few pros that work on location or in several locations want to be at a technological disadvantage related to their competition.* (That is of course, assuming that they want to be successful from a financial perspective.)
> 
> skieur
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess that is why so few PRO's use SONY!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, if Colorado is your area of comparison....
> 
> skieur
Click to expand...


I am just going to add you to the IGNORE list with the rest of the trolls.. I have never seen you make a useful comment, only spew SONY excrement!


----------



## belial

Why buy zeiss when we can go with canon and nikon and have the choice between those brands and still get zeiss?


----------



## belial

skieur said:
			
		

> Well, if Colorado is your area of comparison....
> 
> skieur



I live in California and have never seem a pro use Sony


----------



## belial

Personally I'm not will to ever give up ovf. I don't see enough advantages and personally thing mirrorless isn't going anywhere anytime soon


----------



## cgipson1

belial said:


> skieur said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, if Colorado is your area of comparison....
> 
> skieur
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I live in California and have never seem a pro use Sony
Click to expand...


You probably never will! :0  (unless it is a Craiglist / Facebook type PRO!)


----------



## skieur

cgipson1 said:


> skieur said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess that is why so few PRO's use SONY!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, if Colorado is your area of comparison....
> 
> skieur
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am just going to add you to the IGNORE list with the rest of the trolls.. I have never seen you make a useful comment, only spew SONY excrement!
Click to expand...


Well "Sony excrement" certainly indicates your extreme bias and where you are coming from, as well as your immaturity and limited photographic experience.
So, it is about time, you stayed out of the Sony forum, and went back to your own area.

skieur


----------



## skieur

jsirevaag said:


> I'm jumping off the Sony bandwagon this year. As a A700 user I was impressed by the quality of photos I was able to create with this robust camera but now that the entire line is being "upgraded" to SLT technology, I'm no longer interested in playing their game. Sony was a great value compared to other high-end DSLR's for a while but the move to SLT leaves me wondering why they haven't gone fully mirrorless like with their NEX series. I've decided to buy into Fuji's experiment with the X-Pro 1 because I believe eliminating the reflex mirror is the next logical step in pro-photography. Mirrors are loud, vibration-inducing and now a relic of the past as direct-view cameras are coming to market with usable resolution and features. Sony's SLT mirror is just another stumbling-block in the light-path of the imaging sensor. Fuji was kind enough to include an eye-level optical finder (that switches to EVF) for guys like me who use them extensively. I'm sad to see Sony using this "bridge" technology between the DSLR and mirrorless camera because the cameras remain bulky and have low-light performance issues.
> 
> Sony: go full-throttle into mirrorless or find a way to make the DSLR more relevant to the future of photography. SLT may just be an incredible waste of time and resources.



Given the supposed features of the A99, it should be no surprise that Sony may be dropping the flipping mirror.  ISO up to the 100,000 area suggests that they may have conquered the noise issues. No bayer filter on the sensor and no anti-aliasing suggests the potential for super sharp images.  Flash sync at any speed suggests that they have taken care of speed shooting too.  A crop body and a full frame will meet different needs.


skieur


----------



## argieramos

cgipson1 said:


> I have seen that too..  a Sony user on a night walk was complaining that he couldn't see some subjects, and was asking some of us to hold flashlights so he could try to get some shots. lol! _*I suggested he get a Nikon!*_



Compare to the OLED VF of a77, any OVF will be useless in extreme darkness.. I wouldn't suggest a Nikon to that user. They don't know how to make a camera sensor. They can design, but they don't know how to make it. They always have an outside party helping them. At least Canon can make their own from the scratch. Nikon should go to Barnes and Noble store and see if they can find a book like _"Create a Camera Sensor 101"_, or _"How to create a Camera Sensor for *Dummies*"_ Nyehehehehe!!!


----------



## o hey tyler

argieramos said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have seen that too..  a Sony user on a night walk was complaining that he couldn't see some subjects, and was asking some of us to hold flashlights so he could try to get some shots. lol! _*I suggested he get a Nikon!*_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compare to the OLED VF of a77, any OVF will be useless in extreme darkness..
Click to expand...


Hilarious Argie. Truly comedic gold.


----------



## cgipson1

o hey tyler said:


> argieramos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have seen that too..  a Sony user on a night walk was complaining that he couldn't see some subjects, and was asking some of us to hold flashlights so he could try to get some shots. lol! _*I suggested he get a Nikon!*_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compare to the OLED VF of a77, any OVF will be useless in extreme darkness..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hilarious Argie. Truly comedic gold.
Click to expand...


I see Argie is still delusional... too bad I can't see his posts except second hand now! I come here when I need a good laugh! (of course that hold true for SKIER too!)


----------



## Nikon_Josh

cgipson1 said:


> o hey tyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> argieramos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Compare to the OLED VF of a77, any OVF will be useless in extreme darkness..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hilarious Argie. Truly comedic gold.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I see Argie is still delusional... too bad I can't see his posts except second hand now! I come here when I need a good laugh! (of course that hold true for SKIER too!)
Click to expand...


I have to agree, I know I may sound serious sometimes when I am arguing with Argie. But I actually find him hilarious!  He is a complete waste of space who dosen't contribute anything at all to this forum. No doubt about that one.


----------



## Overread

I'm getting rather sick of repeatedly having to lock Sony threads because a group of people like to bait/fight with each other. Disagreements are fine, but keep any debate to debating the facts - once you start throwing in the personal insults and such you all end up as bad as each other, and if this continued pattern keeps happening the next time a thread is locked those involved might find themselves on a period of enforced silence for a while.


Furthermore if you put some one on ignore that's it - end of things and you move on. You do not use it as a way to give out retorts/insults without comeback from them.


----------

