# Is pursuing freelance photography an ideal career choice?



## Horizon (Jul 18, 2016)

Hi everyone. I'm 23, working a part-time bank teller job, and have no idea what I'm going to do with my life career wise. I recently visited relatives over in WA state, and my uncle over there is a freelance photographer, and has been doing Photography for a long time, and is able to make a stable living purely with his freelance work. (He mainly shoots weddings, etc). I didn't really grasp the value of freelancing before, but now I totally get it. He is able to be his own boss, work his own flexible hours, and basically no longer has to do the whole 9-5 slave work that I do. I would love to be able to have such an interesting career like that. I've dabbed in some minor photography of my own in the past and I really enjoyed it, but stopped cause I wasn't sure I was going anywhere with it.

So my uncle gave me some advice and basically told me that if I want to get into Photography, I should try to get my own equipment and start shooting and start honing my skills and establish a portfolio for myself. So that other people can admire my work, etc and get my name out there. So I'm just wondering, is pursuing freelance photography something that I could realistically make a living doing? My ideal yearly salary is 30k a year. That's it. Beyond that I don't need anything else. I would love to be able to shoot weddings and other memorable moments in peoples lives and doing something like that as a career seems really exciting. I'm really not sure what else I can do for a career but Photography really peaks my interest and I would love to get back into it. But I just want to be able to make a living doing it as well. 

I realize it's a competitive field but if there is a chance I could do it, then maybe it's worth pursuing rather than remaining stagnant in my life not trying. Thanks guys. Look forward to your responses.


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## Light Guru (Jul 18, 2016)

Horizon said:


> He is able to be his own boss, work his own flexible hours, and basically no longer has to do the whole 9-5 slave work that I do.



In reality every client is your boss, the hours your working are always night and weekends and you end up putting in more hours then the 9-5 job.

Im not saying don't go for it, I'm just trying to make things look a bit more realistic.


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## goodguy (Jul 18, 2016)

Light Guru said:


> Horizon said:
> 
> 
> > He is able to be his own boss, work his own flexible hours, and basically no longer has to do the whole 9-5 slave work that I do.
> ...


That and more

It takes time to be a good photographer, equipment is the easy part but being a good photography is calling for mentoring, research and lots of practice.
Takes years to hone such skills.


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## tirediron (Jul 18, 2016)

Only if by 'ideal' you mean being perennially broke.


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## jcdeboever (Jul 19, 2016)

Go for it.


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## Designer (Jul 19, 2016)

Horizon said:


> I realize it's a competitive field but if there is a chance I could do it, then maybe it's worth pursuing rather than remaining stagnant in my life not trying.


It's competitive, and your competition is doing it for free.

There is a chance, but you'll have to be very very good and present work that nobody else is doing.

Whether it's worth it to you or not will depend on how you value it.  

This is a question that comes up regularly on here.  Do a search of threads on this topic.


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## robbins.photo (Jul 19, 2016)

tirediron said:


> Only if by 'ideal' you mean being perennially broke.



Top ten career choices for folks that love Ramen Noodles..


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## zombiesniper (Jul 19, 2016)

I'm not a pro, just a hobby but have also been around a while so take everything I'm about to say with a bag of rock-salt.

If you want to look into photography as a business then read below:

1. Keep your job. Photography is like any other skill. You'll suck at first until you learn the basics. Then you'll start to suck less (I haven't got that far yet). You'll need that job to pay the bills while you're learning.

2. Research (you've begun already here. Good job) both the type of photography that interests you and the gear that's available to you.

3. Aquire gear. This can lead to problems for some so try and get some advice on this ensuring you let the mentor/photographer (don't ask the guy selling you the gear) know what type of photography you wish to do.
3.5 Get out and shoot.

4. Learn everything you can to improve your skill. This is true of anyone that is great at what they do.
4.5 Get out and shoot.

5. Get a mentor in the area of photography that interests you. This can be done many ways. An online mentorship as this forum has. Second shooter for another Pro, etc.
5.5 Get out and shoot.

6. Learn the business/marketing side. Great to have amazing pics but if nobody know about them or if you can't pay the bills you'll still be working that 9-5 for life.
6.5 Get out and shoot.

Last but not least. Don't give up. We all have days that nothing turns out right. The more you try the better you will get and those days will become fewer and farther between.

Hope you find a way to make it work.


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## waday (Jul 19, 2016)

Horizon said:


> My ideal yearly salary is 30k a year.


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## Dave442 (Jul 19, 2016)

I would not call it an "Ideal" career choice. It is a lot more work than a bank teller job. No reason not to give it a try if it really interests you.


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## Wildcats160 (Jul 19, 2016)

I can't add anything to what was already said except to say be careful how you estimate your financial needs.  $30k/year sounds adequate at 23.  You probably haven't experienced an unexpected home repair or medical bill, or your spouse's sudden unemployment, or retirement planning, etc.  My guess is in 5 years you'll realize you grossly underestimated your "ideal" salary.


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## tirediron (Jul 19, 2016)

waday said:


> Horizon said:
> 
> 
> > My ideal yearly salary is 30k a year.


I'd wager you could make that at McDonald's with a LOT less stress....


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## Dave442 (Jul 19, 2016)

The people I know that do this often studied art, got interested in photography and built up a photography portfolio (they already had their art portfolio) and then used that to get into either a job or into a photography school. By that time you have put in at least four or five years so now you are not just jumping into being a freelance photographer.


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## waday (Jul 19, 2016)

tirediron said:


> waday said:
> 
> 
> > Horizon said:
> ...


One could definitely make that at other jobs with less stress.

My concern with no more than 30K is the same by @Wildcats160. There's no room for error in there, and there's no retirement. Heck, after taxes, you're taking home $1.7K a month. I'm not sure what rent is like by the OP, but rent around me could easily take over half of that for a one bed/one bath apartment. And I don't live in a major metropolitan area. Now factor in car, gas, utilities, food, clothing, phone, internet, insurance, health, and other debt (if applicable) and you're struggling.


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## jcdeboever (Jul 19, 2016)

I would suggest doing a detailed business plan. This will tell you whether or not it is a viable business. Just because other's can't make it, doesn't mean the OP can not. I was often told not to do this or that because of whatever market challenges there were and in the end, those same people who discouraged me said I was lucky. Planning, hard work, goal setting are essential in any business venture whether you own it or not. As a salesman, I never wanted a salary working for people, I always wanted straight commission because it is highly negotiable and produces substantially more income if you're good.


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## robbins.photo (Jul 19, 2016)

tirediron said:


> waday said:
> 
> 
> > Horizon said:
> ...



Plus free hats.  At Mcdonalds they give you a hat.  And a nametag. You don't get a either for free as a pro photographer.  

Seriously though, to the op, starting your own photography business is actually pretty easy.  Making any real money at it becomes an order of magnitude more difficult.  Odds are good you are going to have to put a lot of time and effort into building your business, and that during that time you'll have to maintain a full time job as well to pay your bills.

Even after you get established, your looking at an extremely competitive business in which a lot of people will offer their services a lot cheaper than what you can afford to match, so you'll need to consider that as part of your business model and market yourself accordingly.

Keep in mind that a lot of guys who shot pro are getting out of the business already, so again, plan accordingly.  You'll need to work very hard to establish a client base, etc - and then you'll have to work hard to maintain it.  It's not impossible, but it's certainly far from easy.

So with that in mind if this still seems like something you want to do, I'll wish you luck.


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## tirediron (Jul 19, 2016)

robbins.photo said:


> ...Plus free hats.  At Mcdonalds they give you a hat.  And a nametag. You don't get a either for free as a pro photographer...


No, but you make up for it in t-shirts; I literally cannot get the t-shirt drawer of my dresser shut because of all the free event t-shirts I received over the years.  I doubt very much if I will ever have to another t-shirt in my life!


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## vintagesnaps (Jul 19, 2016)

Free hats...  now there's an incentive...

Yes, work on a plan. Get on American Society of Media Photographers or PPA to see what you're going to need to learn. You can't just 'put yourself out there' in a vague way, you need to learn how/where to market yourself.

And what's being done by the people with cameras listing themselves on craigslist/facebook is underpricing, and causing existing photographers to be challenged to stay in business. I think you'd have to get damn good and know what you're doing.

Your uncle seems to have gotten you on the right track but he's established and probably has a good reputation and good word of mouth that took him years to develop. You're starting out with bupkis.

While you're still working, develop skills, and get out with your camera and practice practice practice. You've gotta love it to stick with it for the long haul. You should get to the point that you know how to use your camera without having to think about it too much, then you'll need to learn skills in working with and directing/posing people, etc. if you want to do weddings/portraits. Take a class, learn to do it 'right' - meaning learn the basics and how to do that well then you can get creative with it and make it more likely you can be successful.


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## The_Traveler (Jul 19, 2016)

Consider that, if it looks good to you, there are truly hundreds of thousands of people with cameras who think the same thing.
The barriers to competition are very low and the public cares less and less about the gap between adequate photography and really good photography - and you have yet to get into the 'really good' category.


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## dennybeall (Jul 19, 2016)

"The Traveler" has a good point. A good illustration: Place an ad on Craigslist for an Event Photographer for a small wedding - list the Budget at 250$ ..............and see if you get less than 50 responses.
That's an absolutely terrible price that barely covers expenses but a whole bunch of novices with D3300's will respond with words about how GOOD they are.........


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## jcdeboever (Jul 19, 2016)

dennybeall said:


> "The Traveler" has a good point. A good illustration: Place an ad on Craigslist for an Event Photographer for a small wedding - list the Budget at 250$ ..............and see if you get less than 50 responses.
> That's an absolutely terrible price that barely covers expenses but a whole bunch of novices with D3300's will respond with words about how GOOD they are.........


Wouldn't want that nightmare.


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## astroNikon (Jul 19, 2016)

take some vacations and go 2nd shoot/intern for your uncle.
That would be a crash course in everything .. weddings .. bridezillas .. equipment .. lighting .. 18 hour non-stop day.

but don't forget to work with him in the initial setup for the wedding and stuff like that too.
this will give you an idea of what goes into a wedding from a photographers point of view ==> Why I Can’t Shoot Your Wedding for Free {Part I of II}

also in your income, don't forget things like health insurance, car insurance, car payments, etc as you are now your own contractor and not an employee eligible for company benefits.


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## Beatles2 (Jul 19, 2016)

It is imparative you have a business plan, many great photographers with no business plan fail. You will also need your own gear. Keep in mind when shooting a wedding you might want to have better gear then the guests at the wedding. ( just saying) 

You're young so if this is something you love, go for it.


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## KmH (Jul 19, 2016)

Horizon said:


> Is pursuing freelance photography an ideal career choice?


Not today, and it's getting worse by the day.
The bar to entry has gotten to low.

_Your only hope_ is to have sufficient business, salesmanship, marketing and photography skills that you can attract as your regular customers the 15% of the populace that has 85% of the money.
High quality retail photographs (weddings, families, kids, portraits, events, etc) are a luxury item and should be marketed, promoted, and priced as such, if a freelance photographer wants to have _any hope_ of earning enough income to live a middle class type life.
The real trick there is that to attract the 15% that has 85% of the money you have to be able to socialize with and think like the 15% that have 85% of the money.

The Internet, cell phone cameras, online photo sharing, and digital cameras that can make a decent, if only mediocre, photo with little skill required of the photographer are making freelance photography a very hard way to make a living.
The good news is, you don't have to waste time/effort/$$$$s marketing/promoting to the prevalent average person Walmart - Low Prices Everyday - buyer mentality. You only market/promote to that upper crust 15% that have 85% of the money. However, your marketing/promotional material need to be attractive to the 15% that have 85%.

So it is unfortunate, but the average freelance photographer in the US today doesn't make income above the poverty income level and fewer than 15% of all new retail businesses (of any kind) survive more than a couple of years. Only 15% of all photographers today make $50,000 a year or more, and most of the 15% are older photographers that have long established photography businesses.
The #1 reason new retail businesses fail is because they don't make enough money to keep the business going. Which usually means the business owner isn't making enough to eat and pay personal expenses, let alone keep the business alive.

But WTF *is* an ideal career choice, of any kind today?
The pace of change has become so rapid that young people today should be planning on having 6 or more careers in their lifetime.


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## smoke665 (Jul 19, 2016)

I don't mean this disrespectful in any way, toward those pursuing their dream in photography. However I can't help but be amused by the number of posts that crop up on this, and the overwhelming consensus. "It's a great business, you just can't make a living at it". Granted there are those true professionals either by talent or longevity that are the exception to the rule. I pulled up the latest data from the Department of Labor and Statistics. The "average" income for the classification "photographer" is just a shade over $40K.  By comparison the average for a fast food manager (not store manager) in the this area is $35,000. Most all of the construction trades make more than photographers. Truck drivers make twice the average of photographers, and the list goes on.  I would advise any young person starting out, that Nirvana is a myth, it takes cold hard cash to live, and if you don't seek the training/education to earn a decent  living while you're young, you will one day find yourself in a deep dark hole and no way to climb out. I learned at an early age to differentiate between what I liked to do and what I was good at doing. Over the years doing what I was good at has paid for a lot of things I like to do.


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## Gary A. (Jul 19, 2016)

Yes ... What-the-hell and why not. There is possibly nothing worse than stagnation. But, it won't be easy and taking a bit of leap here ... I suspect, that at this time, you do not have the skills and experience of a professional photographer.

Go to school and take photo classes.  Find a mentor to help you.  Work for an established and successful professional photographer.  Read books on photography, shoot, shoot some more and when you think you're done, shoot some more. Go to a four year college and get a degree in Art (emphasis in photography) or Communications (emphasis in photojournalism) and while you're you're in school, take as many business courses as possible.

I echo everyone else who explained that the field is very competitive ... But there are many photographers that are monetarily and career-wise ... successful.  And one of those successful photographer could be you ... The odds are long that it would be you ... But it could be.  You'll never know if you could be successful ... unless you try.  Unless you quit stagnating, get off your butt and take a stab at it ... Reach for the brass ring. 

At this point, don't worry about a business plan. Worry about how you will acquire the skills and experience to become a professional photographer.  Find professional mentors, find part-time or full-time work with an established and successful professional photographer. Join photographic associations and learn from the members.  Work at your photography every single day.  Learn digital, learn film, learn video, learn studio, photojournalism, et cetera ... learn it all. Make photography your passion. 

You are on the first step of a long journey. Bon Voyage. Good luck and Good shooting.

Gary


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## KmH (Jul 19, 2016)

The Department of Labor doesn't single out retail photographers.
Plus their information isn't current and only reflects those photographers that have a legal business.
Lots of newbie photographers do not have a legal, registered business and do not report income to the US government.
The DoL stated median average income for all photographers is stated as $31,710 - well short of $40k.
Photographers

To make a living income with any business is mostly about having business skills.


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## Dave Colangelo (Jul 20, 2016)

Here is some advice Ill offer on freelance in general 

1) *Don't Quit Your Day Job Just Yet*: Day jobs can suck, bosses can suck, work can suck some times but having a stable paycheck and being able to eat and pay rent can really help you quite literally survive, quality of life can be something that many don't think about until they are on the wrong side of it. You may even find that the money you make at a day job can help you get some gear with out needing to leverage a credit card or take out a loan. You may even be able to get a job in the photography industry and learn in the process.   

2) *Work When You Can*: If you take my first piece of advice you will most likely be thinking that you will have no time to pursue things. This is wrong in my opinion. Many modern day jobs fill the 9-5 time frame quite well which, if we are being frank, is not when weddings and similar events happen. I worked with a guy who did wedding videos on the side to make extra money and had no problem balancing his day job with it. You will however have to sacrifice free time and possibly doing things with friends to make this a reality. Some people are willing to do this and consider it the price of getting started. You may find that you can hold a day job no problem and do portrait sessions at night and weddings on the weekends, you will need to work in time to sleep there but you are young, you can sleep later in life. 

3) *Don't Expect to Go Straight to the Top*: Building clients, building a reputation and just generally building skills takes time (think years not months). You need to be ready to fail at a few jobs and possibly even make a fool of your self once or twice. If you can ride these things out, it will get better! The young generation is a very now now now generation, don't expect your skills to mature over night.  

4) *Seek Advice*: You have asked here which is a start, but go and sit down and talk to other people who have done it. Talk to older people who started long ago and talk to young people who started in the past 5 years. Get a feel for what you are in for, what its going to take and make a plan for your self. No two stories are going to be the same but you will find a common line of hard work, time consuming hours and simply putting your self out there. 

Regards 
Dave


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## smoke665 (Jul 20, 2016)

KmH said:


> The Department of Labor doesn't single out retail photographers.
> Plus their information isn't current and only reflects those photographers that have a legal business.
> Lots of newbie photographers do not have a legal, registered business and do not report income to the US government.
> The DoL stated median average income for all photographers is stated as $31,710 - well short of $40k.
> ...



To have an average you would likely have some well under and some well over. To me making a living is somewhat like making a living as an artist. Some go hungry and others (like a friend of ours) live quite well off thier art. The end result though is that you need to be realistic in what you choose as a way to make a living.


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## astroNikon (Jul 20, 2016)

FYI,
I totally recommend to not take out loans to buy equipment as mentioned above.

Remember, a loan is because you can't afford to buy something.
Then when you get a loan you now have a FIXED Monthly Payment to pay,
which of course reduces your monthly spending income by that amount,
and when you add up the payments (which includes principal and interest) you may have spent enough to buy much more if you simply save up and pay cash.

For most people their income (or lack thereof) is the reason they took out a loan is because they don't make enough.
Then you have to cut someplace else to make up for that monthly payment.

I recommend saving up $$ to buy new equipment and start setting aside $$ to purchase future equipment.
Then you won't disrupt your current quality of life.


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## Gary A. (Jul 20, 2016)

"Ideal" is something you must discover for yourself.  What is ideal for you may not be ideal for others.  Some people prefer the job security of working 9-5 for a large corporation, even though they are not fond of what they do, the trade off is worth it for the security.  Others, would rather work long hours and take risks in order to be their own boss and do what they love. As stated earlier, go for it. We cannot tell you if you will be successful or not ... we cannot tell you if freelancing is "ideal" for you ...

I know many professional photographers, some are struggling to put two nickels together, another is a wedding photog who charges $15,000 per event, photojournalists who receive a weekly salary from large corporations. The fine folks here can help you navigate the choppy water of professional photography ... But they cannot tell you if it is an 'ideal' job/career for you.


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## dennybeall (Jul 20, 2016)

Two key suggestions to anyone starting a new business. The first being do a comprehensive Business Plan. The second is to have enough money on hand to finance you and the business for one full year.
That said, I would not even consider starting a new photography business now. Technology changes are changing so much of the business that a good business plan would be impossible.


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## Beatles2 (Jul 20, 2016)

I actually think there is more money in teaching photography now, then shooting. Just an observation .


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## table1349 (Jul 20, 2016)

Might be a good read of the OP . Can You Make a Living Doing Photography?


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## TheLibrarian (Jul 20, 2016)

Apparently not. Big money weddings seem attractive but can you get 52 a year? To sum up what I'm hearing, teaching seems like a reasonable route but generally you need to know what you're doing to teach. ^above blog post ends up offering classes. I like the 85/15% suggestion if you can do it. Having larger amounts of low/ middle end clients may be doable but much more work and maybe best left to the part timers. 

All I can add is echo the business side of things and suggest people make money selling tacks, sewing needles, milk and bread at convenient stores. Not huge money but enough to justify retail space, rent et al. Properly marketed and sold you can sell ice cubes to Eskimos. Hardly ideal though. Better off waiting years to be a bank manager or loan officer and maybe getting the bank to pay some of your schooling for whatever they want you to go to school for. Its literally where the money's at. 

I'm considering (even though i dont have the skill and hate editing) part time, doubly so after reading the above article. Family, kids, senior photos, actor/ model portfolios, dating site pics. 50 a year at $100 for an hour a week is a nice 5k bonus. Reading about stocksy today who proudly say they paid 50% of their $5 million or whatever to their 900 photographers which gives each 5k a year. Maybe not evenly divided and who knows how much work each put into it and no one should rely on stocksy or uber to make a living but then why. If its not good to do all day long then doing it a little isn't likely any better. Full time stocksy staff (not photogs) get 6 weeks paid vacation, free food, a nice patio overlooking the lake, likely 80k a year and more. Not accepting photographers now but need a UX guy and a co-op specialist. 

Maybe get creative I know some SG's and not evens that have 18,000 followers. Ill leave it up to others how they want to take advantage of something like that selling random stuff to fans.


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## fmw (Aug 1, 2016)

Perhaps it would be better to go to law school.


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## beagle100 (Aug 3, 2016)

fmw said:


> Perhaps it would be better to go to law school.



no, that would be worse than a photography "career" !


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