# My first wedding



## eclipse13 (Feb 19, 2008)

My girlfriends room mate just got engaged and she wants me to take the photos at the wedding. She knows my skill level, and says that they aren't going to pay for a photographer, so she won't be worried if my photos aren't perfect. Still, I don't want to disappoint. So do you have any experience, recommendations, equipment suggestions, etc?

I know I will need a checklist for the formal shots and reception shots, but I also need some idea for shots while they are getting ready. The wedding isn't until October, so I have some time to study up. Thanks is advance for any help.


----------



## Big Mike (Feb 19, 2008)

Thread Moved 

First of all, I would put together some form of contract or agreement.  Even if you do this for no money (which I don't recommend), there should be some sort of signed agreement so that there is something to fall back on, if things go awry.  It should detail what you are expected to do and what you expect from them...etc.



> and says that they aren't going to pay for a photographer


I can understand that not everyone can afford the cost of wedding photography, but really...they are not going to pay for it?  Would they say the same about the dress?  The flowers?  The catering?  

I've heard enough stories to say that just because they pay you nothing, does not mean that they will expect very little.  Also, because they have paid you nothing, you would likely get very little respect from them during the wedding...which makes the job of shooting it...a lot tougher.  
I've found that a big part of getting good photos, is being in charge of the situation, getting and keeping their attention.  This is a lot easier when they know that they paid you a bunch of money and nothing to the other 20 people standing about with their little digi-cams.  If they aren't paying you, there is a less motivation for them to give you the opportunity to get great shots.
I'll stop that rant...for now. :er:

As for actually shooting the wedding.  Go with what you know.  The probably asked you for some reason, so I would assume that you have some skills.
It's important to be prepared and ready to deal with problems that might pop up.
For example, backup equipment would be a requirement.  You can't just say "sorry" if your camera or flash stops working during the wedding.


----------



## JIP (Feb 19, 2008)

Here we go again.....

Didn't we have this discussion already on another thread recently.  Also, there are a whole list of tips on this http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20069  thread, including lists of shots to take and links to helpful sites to go to.


----------



## errant_star (Feb 19, 2008)

FWIW ... I'm with Big Mike on this one. I did a favour to my husbands cousin who was getting married and had foregone the cost the of the photographer. About a week before the wedding I volunteered to take my camera to grab some pictures for them. I had never actually met them or seen the venue, I just offered to help out. I let them know my skill level and that I was not a pro by any stretch of the imagination and they agreed and seemed fine with it. 

The wedding was in January and was an evening wedding in a dimly lit church which did not allow flash. They did not give me any time to take pictures pre wedding. Before the refreshments were served at the reception venue I was given space against a dirty, blank wall to take "formals". 

After the fact when I gave them the pictures (which I paid to have printed out of pocket) I had, I got a nasty email basically ripping me a new "one" for the missed shots, the backgrounds, etc. I very politely reminded them I had no prep time, was not given charge of the situation, and was UNPAID! However they replied back again with more nastiness and we have not spoken to them for 4 years. 

So I would definately have something in writing if you choose to go ahead and do it. Make sure you are all clear on what the expectations are in advance. If you're not pro chances are you don't have back-up equipment, make sure they know this. Make sure they allow you control in posing, placements, and direction of the photography (something I didn't make clear and the couple basically steam-rolled right over me). 

I hope you don't have an experience like mine, just make sure that you have yourself covered for the worst case scenario!


----------



## eclipse13 (Feb 19, 2008)

Well from the conversations we have had, it seems as if she is going to treat me like a regular photographer. We have already talked about doing most of the formal shots ahead of time, and then just the ones that include the bride and the groom afterward. I am going to show her a list that I have of the usual shots and see what she does and doesn't want. 

 I have a back up body and shoe flash lined up, lets just hope I don't destroy my glass on site. 


What exactly do you guys think that I should have in writing?


----------



## jols (Feb 20, 2008)

in writing something like.

name and address of bride and groom 

contact numbers

date and time of wedding

place of wedding

place of reception

price [if applicable]

number of prints you guarantee [if you think 100, tell them 50 to be on the safe side]

then the important one.

in the unlikely event that you will not be able to photograph the wedding due to illness or being in hospital you have no liability than to return any money that has already been paid to you.
there is no back up photographer.


i have this in my contract and although some of the peeps on here think I'm crazy not having a back up i have had no problem with people signing it.

people like people to be honest.

most togs say they will try there hardest to get another tog but this is still not guaranteed.

hope this helps​


----------



## craig (Feb 20, 2008)

Clearly no one in this situation has any respect for photography. And that is bad. They are asking for thousands of dollars worth of work for free. Photographers do not randomly charge for their work. When you pay 5 grand you more often then not get amazing photos of a very important day in their lives. Tell them to skimp on the cake or the wedding dresses or the dj. Photography of the event will out last everything. Practice up and make them pay. 

Of course they have no money and of course you need the experience. Fact of the matter is bs like this hurts the very sensitive industry of photography. Basically you are promoting **** work.

Love & Bass


----------



## jols (Feb 20, 2008)

craig said:


> Clearly no one in this situation has any respect for photography. And that is bad. They are asking for thousands of dollars worth of work for free. Photographers do not randomly charge for their work. When you pay 5 grand you more often then not get amazing photos of a very important day in their lives. Tell them to skimp on the cake or the wedding dresses or the dj. Photography of the event will out last everything. Practice up and make them pay.
> 
> Of course they have no money and of course you need the experience. Fact of the matter is bs like this hurts the very sensitive industry of photography. Basically you are promoting **** work.
> 
> Love & Bass


 


chill out

its a friend doing a friend a favour, and he wants to do it.

please give encouragement


----------



## JIP (Feb 20, 2008)

jols said:


> chill out
> 
> its a friend doing a friend a favour, and he wants to do it.
> 
> please give encouragement


 
Yeah chill out...

Until of course something happens and the only camera you have breaks or you miss that important shot of Mom and uncle Phil together for the first time in 20 years or whatever and the anger and/or lawsuits start to fly.  But I guess chill out it's just photography people charge thousands for this just because they can and it has nothing to do with skill or training or talent or anything like that.


----------



## jols (Feb 20, 2008)

but he is not charging thousands is he. or did i miss something?


----------



## eclipse13 (Feb 20, 2008)

I really don't understand how some of this is helping me. They are both recent college graduates, and she is an elementary school teacher. They are skimping on almost everything. The 'DJ' consists of an ipod connected to some of the groom's band's audio equipment, the 'catering' consists of a mutual friends dad catching all of the fish and cooking it himself (he is a comercial fisherman), the cake is being made for free by the bride's aunt. The only things that they are really paying full price for are the venue and the dress. If I don't do this, they will not have a photographer, plain and simple. I am doing this to help them out, and hopefully gain some expierience. 

I am taking all of your warnings seriously, but at the same time, I am doing this regardless of what you tell me. I want all of the help I can get, but the decision has already been made. 

I am planing on doing as much research and learning as I can until then, I will have a backup camera, hot shoe flash, and batteries in case of an accident. 

Big Mike, errant star, and Jols, I really do appreciate your input. As for everone else, your negativity isn't helping me in any way. I have known these people for a while now and I have made it very clear to them that I am not comfortable with charging them, and that there is a reason for that.


----------



## craig (Feb 20, 2008)

jols said:


> chill out
> 
> its a friend doing a friend a favour, and he wants to do it.
> 
> please give encouragement




Chill out? Encouragement? Why? I have seen this tired scenario play out and chances are that no one will be happy. That effects me because I make my living off of photography. There is a place for lower priced photography. And I am fine with that. Problem is more and more I hear nightmares from clients that hired a photographer that was inexperienced. I should never have to hear that. Ever. PM with further thoughts on this subject.

Why don't the couple save their pennies and have a proper wedding? Have you considered assisting a wedding photographer?

Love & Bass


----------



## Rhys (Feb 20, 2008)

eclipse13 said:


> My girlfriends room mate just got engaged and she wants me to take the photos at the wedding. She knows my skill level, and says that they aren't going to pay for a photographer, so she won't be worried if my photos aren't perfect. Still, I don't want to disappoint. So do you have any experience, recommendations, equipment suggestions, etc?
> 
> I know I will need a checklist for the formal shots and reception shots, but I also need some idea for shots while they are getting ready. The wedding isn't until October, so I have some time to study up. Thanks is advance for any help.



No problem. This is what I did to start my business...

I used an XT and a 17-85 with a 420EX. The gear wasn't "perfect" but did the job very well indeed. Every shot needed flash as the venue was dark and candle-lit with no chance of bounce flash.

I post processed all the images to a basic but decent quality as they both had image processing software of their own. I then burned full-size JPEGS to a DVD and handed it to them when they came back from their honeymoon.

I didn't do prints - they asked but I didn't want the hassle for minimal income from a freebie. Instead I said that I'd give them a DVD and suggested some places where they could get prints of decent quality, cheaply (neither had much money).

Insurance? Didn't bother. I wasn't doing this professionally but as a favour. Makes a difference.

Now I have my experience and my own business.


----------



## jols (Feb 21, 2008)

craig said:


> Chill out? Encouragement? Why? I have seen this tired scenario play out and chances are that no one will be happy. That effects me because I make my living off of photography. There is a place for lower priced photography. And I am fine with that. Problem is more and more I hear nightmares from clients that hired a photographer that was inexperienced. I should never have to hear that. Ever. PM with further thoughts on this subject.
> 
> Why don't the couple save their pennies and have a proper wedding? Have you considered assisting a wedding photographer?
> 
> Love & Bass


 

they would know the tog was inexperience though wouldnt they.

surely they would book withour seeing a portfolio.

i also have experience of several people paying a lot of money for photos from a 'pro tog' and the pics were awful.

the saying you get what you pay for is not always true.

the forum was invented im sure to help people not hinder them.
correct me if im wrong


----------



## craig (Feb 21, 2008)

With all due respect to the original post and to you and me I was hoping this would end up in the form of a PM. That will not be happening until you turn on your PM. 

Yes we are here to help, but I will always give my opinion. It is important to hear all sides of the story. Only by discussion can we help each other. I am here because I love photography. I am not here to tell you "go get 'em" when I think it is ridiculous. Generally I have pleasant things to say. That does not include this topic. 

LUV AND BASS


----------



## Rhys (Feb 21, 2008)

jols said:


> they would know the tog was inexperience though wouldnt they.
> 
> surely they would book withour seeing a portfolio.
> 
> ...



Agreed. The photographer that did our wedding photos came to within an inch of getting sued. It was just because we didn't have the time to invest that we didn't sue her. I managed to rescue one or two photos by scanning them and adjusting the colour balance as well as straightening them with photoshop.


----------



## jols (Feb 21, 2008)

why would it turn into a pm?

im happy to discuss this

if your not refrain from reading any more


----------



## jols (Feb 21, 2008)

craig said:


> With all due respect to the original post and to you and me I was hoping this would end up in the form of a PM. That will not be happening until you turn on your PM.
> 
> Yes we are here to help, but I will always give my opinion. It is important to hear all sides of the story. Only by discussion can we help each other. I am here because I love photography. I am not here to tell you "go get 'em" when I think it is ridiculous. Generally I have pleasant things to say. That does not include this topic.
> 
> LUV AND BASS


 
why would i pm this subject im happy to discuss this topic.

if you are not do not participate

thanks


----------



## eclipse13 (Feb 21, 2008)

Seriously, am I supposed to PM random people and hope that I luckily get someone that can help me? No. That is why this is called a message board. 

Now, can we please drop this. I understand that you do not want to help me. However, others might, and I would like to not upset any mods/admins with petty arguing and have this close.


----------



## photogoddess (Feb 21, 2008)

Please cover yourself with a contract - even if the photography is a gift and to help you to get needed experience. It should list out all the parties, what is expected and a disclaimer of sorts that state that you're an aspiring professional, not a professional and hold no responsibility for not getting any specific shots or the quality. 

I am a pro that does this for a living and even I've done a couple of free weddings. Thankfully I've not had problems but the stories I've heard turn most people off of working for friends or relatives. Protecting yourself is a must IMO.


----------



## craig (Feb 21, 2008)

My idea was to have Jols PM me so the original post could stay on track.

Love & Bass


----------



## eclipse13 (Feb 21, 2008)

Well then I apologize. My mistake.


----------



## Rhys (Feb 21, 2008)

If it's free then there's no need for a contract. An oral agreement isn't worth the paper it's written on. Thus, if you agree to do the photography and they hate it, they have no come-back because there is no contract. It is - for you - good practice. Plus you can put the photos in your offline portfolio (unless they specified you can use them in advertising in which you can use your online portfolio too).


----------



## Fiendish Astronaut (Feb 21, 2008)

Good luck Eclipse13 - I have very little wedding photography experience, but if you do it be nice to the guests so they relax around you and shoot in RAW so you can post-process them. And don't be afriad to spend a few weeks slowly processing the images to make them look at their best. And look for other people's wedding photography online to give yourself some inspiration.


----------



## craig (Feb 21, 2008)

jols said:


> why would i pm this subject im happy to discuss this topic.
> 
> if you are not do not participate
> 
> thanks



I am happy to discuss this topic as well. Just not in this particular thread. I am afraid that the OP will go off course

Love & Bass


----------



## JIP (Feb 21, 2008)

eclipse13 said:


> I really don't understand how some of this is helping me. They are both recent college graduates, and she is an elementary school teacher. They are skimping on almost everything. The 'DJ' consists of an ipod connected to some of the groom's band's audio equipment, the 'catering' consists of a mutual friends dad catching all of the fish and cooking it himself (he is a comercial fisherman), the cake is being made for free by the bride's aunt. The only things that they are really paying full price for are the venue and the dress. If I don't do this, they will not have a photographer, plain and simple. I am doing this to help them out, and hopefully gain some expierience.
> 
> I am taking all of your warnings seriously, but at the same time, I am doing this regardless of what you tell me. I want all of the help I can get, but the decision has already been made.
> 
> ...


 
Well O.k. then first of all to help you how many 2.8 lenses do you have in case the church will not allow flash photograpy and you find out on the day of?.  I don't mean to be negative but you need to be prepared fo all of the things that can go wrong.  If the DJ/IPOD plays the wrong song for the first dance you can reset it and start again, if one dish tastes bad usually with a wedding like this there is a buffet you can try something else.  Just remember if something goes wroing with you that's it no going back no do-overs and even friends or elatives get pissed off if something like this gets screwed up.


----------



## eclipse13 (Feb 21, 2008)

I have a 50mm f/2.8, and the backup camera/flash I am borrowing will have the same lens.


----------



## jols (Feb 21, 2008)

craig said:


> I am happy to discuss this topic as well. Just not in this particular thread. I am afraid that the OP will go off course
> 
> Love & Bass


 

this thread is about helping the original poster, not about you and me.

why would you want to pm about this?


----------



## craig (Feb 21, 2008)

Seems to me that eclipse13 wants to now how to shoot a wedding. Not the whys and where fors of shooting a free wedding. 

Love & Bass


----------



## JIP (Feb 21, 2008)

Well at the top of the wedding gallery there is a sticky of general tips and helpful hints on shooting weddings.  I really dont think you can _teach_ someone on a forum how to shoot a wedding but that thread is a good start.


----------



## jols (Feb 21, 2008)

of which im happy to help if he has any questions


----------



## dpolston (Feb 21, 2008)

I think this thread is all over the place...omg!

I will try to lend some practice tips of my own... being mainly a commercial photographer but I do an occasional wedding myself:

Being that you are just starting off (like has been said) get some kind of contract which will simply say what is expected of you and of them (i.e. if they want 4x6 proofs of ALL prints and you are offering a cd of medium resolution edited (edited for content like no blurry shots or you take 4 very similar shots and you like number 2 best and delete 1,3 and 4; you're not obligated to provide them with 1,3 and 4) proof files). 

Establish the fact that you have creative control of the images. There was a big knock down fight here a while ago because a photog gave MOST images to the bridzilla and she wanted ALL - EVERY LAST ONE - ALL images. Personal note: I never give all because of the aforementioned "blurry, sub-standard quality (_my _standard) or similar imagery". 

Now that proofs are done... move onto shots themselves. Have a list (google one or make one yourself) of "got to have's" Bride has married parents, write it down, step parent situations, write it down. Does she want shots with cousins or not... write it down. Ring bearer or not... write it and so it goes.

I can only speak for me in the fact that most of my wedding shots are photo journalistic (around 60% of them) 20% are posed, 10% are ceremony and the last 10% are fillers (the dress, ring, cake, table sitting, church exterior, blah blah blah). But some brides want different levels of tradition which might cause the percentages to change... ask them.

The album... or no album... talk to them and write it down. Are you going to give them some wall prints? No... write that down. Will you do an engagement session? Write it down!

Do you see the methodology behind a contract even though there is no money exchanged. This is an easy way to gather your checklist but more importantly... be on the same page as the B&G - your friends or not.

More basically... taking the shots themselves. I do take a ladder to the church for the group posed stuff to get higher. But that's probably the only thing I'll say for technique because people are really hammering you on technical stuff. The lens you have will be fine.

Here's the very unorthodox part of your homework. Call another local photographer (or several) and beg... plead, weep and wail, promise to name your future kids after them, and see if you can go with them and shadow them shooting a wedding. Be honest (ALWAYS HONEST) and tell them your story: "I;m not a photog... I have a friend with no money getting married... working guy with a camera and this is a favor... blah, blah, blah" and see if they'll let you tag along. If the first guy says no, call the second photog and "beg... plead..."

Most of all, relax and breathe (this is going to be hard and nerve wracking for the first wedding), think about the shot (look around the viewfinder for all the little details) and capture the image. If you have some missed shots or little things in the shot that shouldn't be there, it's no biggy. Have fun and think about this little story and tell yourself, it's not that bad.

My very first wedding as a "pro-tog" the pastor did the "I now pronounce you thing" and mentioned the reception after the photographs. He then seated the entire congregation to "watch and enjoy" me taking the entire set of formal shots.

I thought I was going to pass out!

_I just thought of another little pearl of wisdom: _When the formal shots are done with the family and bridal party, and it's down to just the couple shots, I kick everyone out of the sanctuary period. Everyone! No moms, no best man, no Aunt Carol that drove 4 days straight through the snow the entire time just for the wedding... NO BODY! This is a very intimate time for the B&G and you (and your assistant if you have one) to capture these very priceless shots. If Uncle bob wants a photo of them kissing at the alter, tell him to hurry up and get out (but say it nicely).

OOPS... one more thing. Make sure they all know (B&G, wedding planner, dad-in-law, bridesmaid number 4...) that you (even though you are to a degree unexperienced) are _the _photographer in charge. If the other family members want shots (and they will), yours take priority! How I handle this is I set my shot and capture it then I invite them to snap one off (rarely from my vantage point). You need to politely be aggressive and command the situation. Do not bow down to the friend of the best man's mom that lives down the street and let them take over your session. MAN UP! and have fun.

David

(Hope some of this helps)

p.s. you do not need a "I'm the only photog and have no backup clause if I am dead" thing in your contract. IMO


----------



## jols (Feb 22, 2008)

p.s. you do not need a "I'm the only photog and have no backup clause if I am dead" thing in your contract. IMO[/quote]


do you think so?

i only put this in as advice from people on here.

and i must admit i do feel happier that my clients know i have no back up.

one member said i would have trouble getting people to sign it but i have had no probelm at all.

but thats just me im glad i have it in there but its not for everybody.

at least if i am in hospital they wont sue me


----------



## dpolston (Feb 22, 2008)

I did put IMO. And No... I don't think so at all. I think common since will prevail on most issues. Heck you might get lost and run out of gas with no phone within miles of the church and miss it. Are there clauses for that? No.

Common since stuff. We don't have to over complicate our contracts. I personally (That's _in my _personal _opinion_) think that is an unnecessary clause. If you like it... go for it! Just don't get all bent out of shape when someone disagrees.


----------



## ~Stella~ (Feb 22, 2008)

I also think a contract is the way to go.  Technically it's not a "contract" because they are not paying anything, but it's a set of ground rules that they are agreeing to, essentially preventing them from later arguing that you agreed to provide something other than what you are agreeing to.



craig said:


> Why don't the couple save their pennies and have a proper wedding?


 
How is that helpful?


----------



## craig (Feb 22, 2008)

It's not. I am just asking a question. Trying to get as much info as possible generally helps me understand the situation. 

Love & Bass


----------

