# Do photographers make good money?



## Coupon92123 (Mar 20, 2021)

Hi everybody,
I want to study photography, then become a photographer. But I don't know if I will be able to live as a photographer? Hope everyone can tell me the answer.
Thanks everyone.


----------



## Original katomi (Mar 20, 2021)

Hi morning,
Sorry to burst your dream. You say that you want to study photography and then earn your living from it
Either you are experienced and want to improve and refine your skills
Or you are a novice and want to learn
From what I have seen in other posts it’s very hard to make a living at photography 
Also whilst I a hobby only photographer I have done four exhibit of my work just as part of my hobby
And I can say this for certain 
Work out how much it will cost you then double that cost at least. Even the last time I did an exhibition there were costs  that I had  not expected.
But I wish you the very best and hope you are able to achieve your dream


----------



## Vtec44 (Mar 20, 2021)

Like any other creative field, you do it for the love of art and not because it makes a lot of money.  Most people started out as a hobby then eventually build the business up enough and turn it into a full time profession.  Most actors and actresses don't start out working in the movie full time.  They generally start out part time because it's not easy to make a living with art.   With that said, you can absolutely make a living, even a good living, as a photographer.  There are different types of photography.  However, it's more about running a profitable business and knowing people than photography itself.   I'm a full time professional photographer and photography is my only profession.  I don't have another job.


----------



## smoke665 (Mar 20, 2021)

Coupon92123 said:


> But I don't know if I will be able to live as a photographer?



I guess that depends on what your definition of "live" is. In  my early years I did some paid work, portraits, forensic and legal work, which were enjoyable, but didn't make me rich. Portrait work has always been the most fulfilling for me, but the legal documentation paid the most.

For me the definition of "live" was much higher than photography would support in the somewhat rural area I was located in. Other business ventures allowed me to retire early and enjoy photography as a hobby.

There are others like VT above who have combined their love for photography into a successful business. The key here is his business product line is photography. After following him for a few years now, he seems to be very focused on his product and market. His style, processing, locations, and marketing are laser focused on a very specific market. In other words, he's doing the exact same things you'll see in every successful  business, he's found his niche. In business you can't be all things to all people, all the time. 

Studying photography is only part of the equation if you hope to make your living in photography. You need an equally sound knowledge of the principles of business and marketing.


----------



## paigew (Mar 20, 2021)

Photography is my full time gig.  Idk how much you consider "good"....I'm no millionaire


----------



## mrca (Mar 20, 2021)

Screw the money, I'm in it for the groupies.


----------



## smoke665 (Mar 20, 2021)

@mrca Do you wear a velvet robe and Captain's hat on set like Hefner did???


----------



## Rickbb (Mar 20, 2021)

I know a guy that has made a decent living at it. But, he does all the local school kids portraits, their sports shots, both of which require him to chase school politicians down to get the contracts. Also does weddings, passport shots, whatever walks in the door etc., etc. After he does all that for 12 hours a day he has no time or desire to take shots of things he likes. When he goes on vacation he doesn’t even take camera with him.

He is also a good businessman and salesperson. I would not last a month doing what he does. Making a living at photography for most people is only 20% taking pictures and 80% everything else, marketing, sales and so on.


----------



## mrca (Mar 20, 2021)

Naw, dont need that stuff.   A photo vest is a babe magnet.


----------



## nokk (Mar 20, 2021)

best advice i've heard given to photographers heading to college was to major in business or marketing and minor in photography.  because that's going to be your life as a professional photographer.  it's a lot harder to sell landscapes or wildlife than it is to sell photos of people's kids.

mark denney (pro landscape photographer) breaks down what he makes and how he makes his money.  rather surprisingly, or not if you're aware of how much a photographer could expect to make, he generates quite a bit more income from youtube than from print sales.  so technically, he's a professional youtuber, not a professional photographer.  but, as stated above, most photographers who make money don't spend the majority of their work time on actual photography.  most of it is marketing, social media and business chores like invoicing, etc..


----------



## paigew (Mar 21, 2021)

Rickbb said:


> I know a guy that has made a decent living at it. But, he does all the local school kids portraits, their sports shots, both of which require him to chase school politicians down to get the contracts. Also does weddings, passport shots, whatever walks in the door etc., etc. After he does all that for 12 hours a day he has no time or desire to take shots of things he likes. When he goes on vacation he doesn’t even take camera with him.
> 
> He is also a good businessman and salesperson. I would not last a month doing what he does. Making a living at photography for most people is only 20% taking pictures and 80% everything else, marketing, sales and so on.



I do school portraits and it is my most profitable genre out of all the subjects I shoot. But I most definitely still take my camera on vacation [emoji176] gotta keep that passionate alive!

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


----------



## jcdeboever (Mar 21, 2021)

Product photography, high end real estate, and corporate is what I would go after if starting a career in it. Fashion is good but probably more challenging to break into. Study business and create a business plan.


----------



## Strodav (Mar 21, 2021)

I had a consulting business where I was the primary asset, much like a photography business.  I made good money when consulting, but the business side was a drag.  Marketing my services, keeping the books, Federal Taxes, State Taxes, FICA, paperwork and fees required by the state to maintain a business, depreciation on capital (office and office equipment, computers, software, ...) bidding on jobs I didn't get all took time away from consulting, i.e., making money.  I ended up closing the business and taking a full time job with a company I was consulting for.  I made about the same amount of money with a lot less stress.  Anyway, here's an article on photographer salaries I found interesting.

Photographer salary ‐ CareerExplorer


----------



## smoke665 (Mar 21, 2021)

Of the ones JC mentioned above, the first three would likely be the easiest to break into. Fashion would pay more, but there's a limited market and a lot of competition.

Couple areas most don't think about are medical and forensics photography. Its a somewhat steady field that pays $40-$60k.


----------



## Soocom1 (Mar 21, 2021)

As previously mentioned but not explored is the business side of things. 
Right now photography is not going to make alot of money. Not like times past. 
There are niches but they are specific. 
Where you live also is a HUGE factor. 

I am in New Mexico and though we are not inundated with overly burdensome regulations (California) the state none the less is political enough to have made getting a buisness license right now fairly difficult. 

If your area is buisness friendly, you have half the battle won.    

The main focus is to know your customers. Who are your customers and what do they want. 
Specialize in that and you may have a good shot.


----------



## Coupon92123 (Mar 25, 2021)

Original katomi said:


> Hi morning,
> Sorry to burst your dream. You say that you want to study photography and then earn your living from it
> Either you are experienced and want to improve and refine your skills
> Or you are a novice and want to learn
> ...


Thanks for your answer, I will try to learn it.


----------



## Coupon92123 (Mar 25, 2021)

Vtec44 said:


> Like any other creative field, you do it for the love of art and not because it makes a lot of money.  Most people started out as a hobby then eventually build the business up enough and turn it into a full time profession.  Most actors and actresses don't start out working in the movie full time.  They generally start out part time because it's not easy to make a living with art.   With that said, you can absolutely make a living, even a good living, as a photographer.  There are different types of photography.  However, it's more about running a profitable business and knowing people than photography itself.   I'm a full time professional photographer and photography is my only profession.  I don't have another job.


Thanks you so much, good luck to you


----------



## Coupon92123 (Mar 25, 2021)

smoke665 said:


> Coupon92123 said:
> 
> 
> > But I don't know if I will be able to live as a photographer?
> ...


Thanks you so much for your opinion


----------



## Coupon92123 (Mar 25, 2021)

paigew said:


> Photography is my full time gig.  Idk how much you consider "good"....I'm no millionaire


But maybe you are enough to make ends meet


----------



## Coupon92123 (Mar 25, 2021)

jcdeboever said:


> Product photography, high end real estate, and corporate is what I would go after if starting a career in it. Fashion is good but probably more challenging to break into. Study business and create a business plan.


Thanks for your comment


----------



## Coupon92123 (Mar 25, 2021)

smoke665 said:


> Of the ones JC mentioned above, the first three would likely be the easiest to break into. Fashion would pay more, but there's a limited market and a lot of competition.
> 
> Couple areas most don't think about are medical and forensics photography. Its a somewhat steady field that pays $40-$60k.


That is not a bad amount of money


----------



## Coupon92123 (Mar 25, 2021)

Soocom1 said:


> As previously mentioned but not explored is the business side of things.
> Right now photography is not going to make alot of money. Not like times past.
> There are niches but they are specific.
> Where you live also is a HUGE factor.
> ...


Thanks for your sharing


----------



## daveo228i (Apr 28, 2021)

Back in the 1990’s I was a crime scene/forensic photographer for the Santa Fe police department. I took the photos, I developed and printed the film. A career as a photographer in law enforcement is one way to make money and contribute to a retirement.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## ntz (May 29, 2021)

Yes, I do a good money .. unfortunately as an IT guy, not photographer ... so far better money then some my friends who are really good pro photographers and without the hassle and stress  ...


----------



## ac12 (May 29, 2021)

Coupon92123 said:


> Hi everybody,
> I want to study photography, then become a photographer. But I don't know if I will be able to live as a photographer? Hope everyone can tell me the answer.
> Thanks everyone.



Today, it is MUCH harder than the past.  And in the past, it was hard.
When I was in high school, I talked with a few pros, and they told me the DIFFICULTIES of the business.  It wasn't as easy and neat as it seemed like from the outside.  So, I went into business administration at the university, and kept photography as a hobby.

Today, with everyone having a camera in their phone, and the advances in photo editing, the need to PAY someone to take pictures is much less than it was.  Look at all the portrait studios that have shut down in the past decades.  Even the discount chains that shut down the pro studios have shut down.

You have to carve out a niche that someone with a phone camera can't do.
But what a phone camera can't do today, could be common a few years from now.  All you have to do is look at how far the phone camera has come, and imagine it going forward.

It is not simply your photo skills.  You HAVE TO market yourself.  And this is HARD.
I have seen people start a business, then go out of business, because they could not get enough steady clients, to pay the bills.  This not for just one year, but for YEARS/DECADES.
You could buy a successful existing photo business.  But if you cannot do the marketing to keep it going and get new clients, you will go out of business.
In some industries, it is the personal network (aka connections) that you develop, that gets you the gigs.  No connections, no gigs.

Old rule.  If you are going on you own, you need to have enough saving to live off of and pay the business expenses, for 3-5 years.  
IF you are lucky, it could take you 5 years to be profitable.  Then you will spend the next several years rebuilding your savings.
If you are NOT lucky, you go out of business.

As was mentioned, do a business plan.
If you don't know what a business plan is, research it.
Cuz if you can't do a GOOD business plan, your likelihood of failure increases a LOT.

Or, you could go to work for a photo company (like LifeTouch) as a photographer.  
But you have to do your own research there.

My advice is to select a college major that will put food on the table and pay the rent.
And keep photography as a hobby.  Or a small side business.


----------



## Grandpa Ron (Jun 21, 2021)

Professorial Photography is a business or if you are very lucky, a routine job for some company with benefits. Either way the you will probably shoot what what makes money, not necessarily what you like. 

If you like to photograph what people want, or you just love the photographic media, then go for it.  

Also keep in mind being self-employed generally means two things; 1. you are your own boss, and 2. you get to choose the 80 hrs a week you want to work.  

Good luck


----------



## flyingPhoto (Jun 23, 2021)

ALL the famous names in photography since 1970 have had the following things in common

1. RICH family
2. RICH boyfriend, maplethorpe anyone.....
3. Name connection with someone BIG in hollywood or fashion or magazine industry


----------



## Grandpa Ron (Jun 23, 2021)

I saw a sign in a Wyoming restaurant. *"Behind every successful Rancher is a wife who works in town."* This true of a lot of professions.


----------



## oliverlol (Jun 27, 2021)

I think that if you are professional in photography and are good at wedding, model or baby photography. You may get much more money. These three photography types are in high demand.


----------



## Mattp311 (Jun 17, 2022)

I'm curious as to where the money falls as a professional photographer. There's commissioned work (weddings, head-shots, etc.) and then there's the creative side. Can a decent living be earned with the latter?


----------



## ac12 (Jun 17, 2022)

Mattp311 said:


> I'm curious as to where the money falls as a professional photographer. There's commissioned work (weddings, head-shots, etc.) and then there's the creative side. Can a decent living be earned with the latter?



Creative ???
I doubt it.

Can painters make a decent living painting creative stuff?
Only the "TINY" minority who make it big, early enough in their life.

You can't make money, until you have enough people buying your photos, consistently over time.
That is the problem.  HOW are you going to sell your photos?


----------



## cgw (Jun 17, 2022)

Yet another zombie thread. Recalls the old joke about what to call a musician without a working girlfriend? Homeless.


----------



## Mattp311 (Jun 17, 2022)

I'm actually going to be selling (t-shirts) at a farmer's market next week. The plan is to display some photography and then refer  people to my smugmug page. Fingers crossed.


----------



## ac12 (Jun 17, 2022)

Mattp311 said:


> I'm actually going to be selling (t-shirts) at a farmer's market next week. The plan is to display some photography and then refer  people to my smugmug page. Fingers crossed.



Business plan.
Is that the market you really want to sell into?


----------



## Mattp311 (Jun 17, 2022)

Maybe not, but it's the best of limited options.


----------



## ac12 (Jun 18, 2022)

Mattp311 said:


> Maybe not, but it's the best of limited options.



Back to your original question.

MAKE A BUSINESS PLAN.


----------



## Rickbb (Jun 20, 2022)

Mattp311 said:


> I'm curious as to where the money falls as a professional photographer. There's commissioned work (weddings, head-shots, etc.) and then there's the creative side. Can a decent living be earned with the latter?


Not until you become famous enough that people will pay hundreds for a print and your work hangs in prestigious museums. Until then it's weddings, head-shots, set that pay the bills.


----------



## mrca (Jun 20, 2022)

Rickbb said:


> Not until you become famous enough that people will pay hundreds for a print and your work hangs in prestigious museums. Until then it's weddings, head-shots, set that pay the bills.





Rickbb said:


> Not until you become famous enough that people will pay hundreds for a print and your work hangs in prestigious museums. Until then it's weddings, head-shots, set that pay the bills.


What is "the creative side?"


----------



## Mattp311 (Jun 21, 2022)

I'm not sure how to better articulate myself. The shots people are displaying on this forum - art.


----------



## mrca (Jun 21, 2022)

Mattp311 said:


> I'm not sure how to better articulate myself. The shots people are displaying on this forum - art.


I don't look at the photos here but having judged and won professional competitions,   much of the work I see is cliched, copied crap.   And they do the same shots over and over.  I wouldn't call that creative.   Many mimic the latest cliche, faded, tilted, jumping on rail road tracks.   But keep in mind most photo consurmers haven't a clue about what is a good photo.   Some mediocre photographers are successful while talented photographers starve.  If you are considering starting a BUSINESS, remember it is just that.   You have to provide something people want or need.   I would highly recommend take a number of photo business courses and read several books.  Pick and chose what fits your business model.   But realize the average photographer makes less than a mcdonald's supervisor.   And they get paid vacation, health insurance,  a steady pay check.  Get a job like that and start shooting and if you make enough at photography, quit the day job.   Have your reached proficiency with lighting, posing, communication with a client also?   It's a business where less than 15%  of your time is spent photographing.  Since this is a business, you need to KNOW how to run a business.   I'd be more concerned with that after a mastery of portrait fundementals.


----------



## Mattp311 (Jun 21, 2022)

mrca, thanks for the insights. It was never my intention to feed myself with this, I was just curious as to what kind of market I'm dealing with and the odds of being successful. But hey, within three or four days I'll have more information (I'm working out of a farmer's market tomorrow) and I'll be able to come back here and speak out of personal experience. If you're curious, I'll keep you posted.


----------



## mrca (Jun 21, 2022)

Mattp311 said:


> mrca, thanks for the insights. It was never my intention to feed myself with this, I was just curious as to what kind of market I'm dealing with and the odds of being successful. But hey, within three or four days I'll have more information (I'm working out of a farmer's market tomorrow) and I'll be able to come back here and speak out of personal experience. If you're curious, I'll keep you posted.


Your success would be the same with any other business, its just a business.  How good a product you have, how god a marketer you are and if you are likable, the demographics of your area and your pricing all play a role.


----------



## Mattp311 (Jun 22, 2022)

Limited interest in my photos - the next few days will tell if I get a conversion.

Decent interest in my t-shirts though. And my target demographic was largely absent, which is encouraging, as I suspect given the time of year that they'll show up next time.


----------



## mrca (Jun 23, 2022)

Good luck.   If there isn't you are touching on something, perhaps they aren't your clients that were there.


----------



## AlanKlein (Oct 26, 2022)

Rickbb said:


> I know a guy that has made a decent living at it. But, he does all the local school kids portraits, their sports shots, both of which require him to chase school politicians down to get the contracts. Also does weddings, passport shots, whatever walks in the door etc., etc. After he does all that for 12 hours a day he has no time or desire to take shots of things he likes. When he goes on vacation he doesn’t even take camera with him.
> 
> He is also a good businessman and salesperson. I would not last a month doing what he does. Making a living at photography for most people is only 20% taking pictures and 80% everything else, marketing, sales and so on.


Most businesses are20/80 that way.  The other expression regarding success is that it's 10% inspiration and 90% perspiration.


----------



## smoke665 (Oct 26, 2022)

We aren't in a large metropolis but I just counted 73 listings for photographers within a 25 mile radius. Of that most were MWC's (Mom's with cameras), only a half dozen or so listed a studio address. I've seen countless ads on FB offering sets for $35 and a DVD of pictures. The quality is horrible, no editing. They don't last long, but there's always new ones coming in.

How legitimate businesses can make a living is beyond me.


----------



## nokk (Oct 27, 2022)

Mattp311 said:


> Limited interest in my photos - the next few days will tell if I get a conversion.
> 
> Decent interest in my t-shirts though. And my target demographic was largely absent, which is encouraging, as I suspect given the time of year that they'll show up next time.



you'd probably do better having physical photo prints on hand to sell.  most sales are spur of the moment purchases.  if they think about it, they probably won't bother to purchase or even visit your site.  i do pretty well with large framed prints (2 sizes) and 4x6" notecards.  keep your options small so you don't overwhelm the buyer.  if they go home and measure but swear they're coming back to purchase, it's probably not happening.


----------



## Mattp311 (Oct 27, 2022)

yeah true - in my experience if someone says they're going to get some cash you're running at about a fifty percent chance of a return.

I do have my best work up on display, so if someone falls in love there's really nothing stopping them from making an offer. Christmas markets coming up. We'll see.


----------



## nokk (Oct 27, 2022)

Mattp311 said:


> yeah true - in my experience if someone says they're going to get some cash you're running at about a fifty percent chance of a return.
> 
> I do have my best work up on display, so if someone falls in love there's really nothing stopping them from making an offer. Christmas markets coming up. We'll see.



put a price sheet up so people know what it would cost.


----------



## Mattp311 (Oct 27, 2022)

Good call.


----------



## missislozar (Oct 28, 2022)

A photographer's salary depends on their experience, the type of photography they specialize in, and the geographical location. Commercial photographers, who take pictures of products or models for magazines, businesses, and advertising agencies, earn the highest wages. Fashion photographers may also earn high incomes, although earnings are often dependent on celebrity endorsements and whether the photographer is in demand. Wedding photographers typically earn less than commercial photographers but can still make a good living. Many talented photographers supplement their income with teaching jobs or by selling their photos as stock footage. In general, photographers who are willing to travel, have a niche specialty, or are able to take advantage of technological advances such as digital manipulation earn the highest incomes. While there is no one answer to the question of how much money photographers make, it is safe to say that those who are successful can enjoy comfortable lifestyles.


----------



## RacePhoto (Oct 28, 2022)

Some very good answers, and the variety, from MWCs and Dad's to contract jobs, to craft fairs and websites. I think the market to get hired as a photographer is very slim to none and the competition is well over saturated for the market. 

In 1969 or so, I was taking a photo course and reading the stock photo books, and suppliers magazines. I asked the head instructor who said, newspapers and magazines are laying off staff, you don't really want to become a professional photographer. Well I didn't anyway, something "really good" came up, instead.

As a comparison, I did some volunteer work for a museum and said it was interesting how the archeologists had interesting work beyond just teaching. The head of the rescue group who also taught and was very highly regarded in the state said, "you could shoot ever employed archaeologist in the country and the next graduating class would fill all the available positions." 

I think photography is even a tougher endeavor to find a good paying position.

Some people do make money and some make a living, and some people live from Youtube views. I suppose some people make their living from stock photos. But the answer is, most don't and most never will. I know I don't actually make a profit, but it's nice to have the Schedule C and deductions and I claim every penny I make, and also depreciate equipment and on rare assignments take travel and lodging expenses to file. How that still shows as a profit and income that's taxable, is beyond me, but I'm happy.

So along with, start with a business plan, and planning and understanding the market someone chooses for their profession, there also is a need to keep good records, starting before day one, cost of starting out, accounting of income and expenses. If someone wants the job and the income and a self supporting business, there are licenses and details to consider.

I'll never say, don't do it, but I will say, investigate and be realistic about how much someone can earn from being some sort of photographer. I suppose it's possible to start part time and try to break in?

Last I read fashion is highly competitive and doesn't pay well, because there are too many people who want to do that. I'd say the same for food photos and shooting models. The most attractive markets, draw the most people trying to work them, more competition drives down prices. If the idea is to be famous and do something high profile, the climb up is steeper and has more obstacles. Room at the top is very small.


----------



## AlanKlein (Oct 28, 2022)

Salaries are based on scarcity like any other cost that goes into a product.  Digital cameras have made taking good pictures less scarce, hence the lower earnings the average photographer can make.  Too much competition. You have to bring something special to the table to make good money.  

Also, like most businesses, having a good business head is often more important than the craft. Take business courses along with trade courses.  Work for a business photographer and learn stuff from them.


----------



## smoke665 (Oct 28, 2022)

missislozar said:


> A photographer's salary depends on their experience, the type of photography they specialize in,



Something not often mentioned and an area deemed to yucky for most MWC's and the squeamish is forensic photography. Back in the 70's I made some descent side income documenting everything from accidents, injuries, crime scenes, and medical procedures. Like I said some of it is not for the faint of heart.


----------



## Mattp311 (Oct 28, 2022)

Interesting. Honestly I've only been focused on the "Art" aspect of the craft. Nice to know there are a variety of other avenues I can pursue. I can think of worse ways to make a living.


----------



## smoke665 (Oct 28, 2022)

@Mattp311 The police jobs are the most plentiful but at the lower end of the pay scale  https://www.indeed.com/q-Forensic-Photography-jobs.html?vjk=d0d4691be58f169e , medical pays a little better  https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=Medic...um=redir&utm_campaign=dt&vjk=05fa486365770f51  as do the business oriented   https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=Insur...um=redir&utm_campaign=dt&vjk=74f211bf24bcc05a

Here's an interesting one...Get pd $1-1500/week to light up. LOL


----------



## Mattp311 (Oct 28, 2022)

If I were still smoking weed that would be prefect  Thanks for the tips.


----------



## Rickbb (Oct 29, 2022)

Too bad it’s in DC, $50k a year would paupers wagers there.


----------

