# Do I really need 45mp



## greybeard (Dec 6, 2018)

How Big Can You Print with Your Camera’s Megapixels?


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## bribrius (Dec 6, 2018)

greybeard said:


> How Big Can You Print with Your Camera’s Megapixels?


Are you hoping to print very high quality prints greater than 20x30?


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## greybeard (Dec 6, 2018)

No but I like to crop a lot.  I'm trying to talk myself into a D850 but I fear I might be disappointed.


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## bribrius (Dec 6, 2018)

greybeard said:


> No but I like to crop a lot.  I'm trying to talk myself into a D850 but I fear I might be disappointed.


Go for it! Why not? 45 mp!!


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## cgw (Dec 6, 2018)

Camera makers have "mp jonesing" down cold when it comes to separating you from your money.

So far, 16-24mp APS-C Nikons and Fujis keep me happy. Neighbors still talk to me, too.


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## Braineack (Dec 6, 2018)

disappointed with a d850?!   Time to sell a kidney and go directly for the D5.

I would love a D850 with the 24MP sensor however.


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## bribrius (Dec 6, 2018)

Braineack said:


> disappointed with a d850?!   Time to sell a kidney and go directly for the D5.
> 
> I would love a D850 with the 24MP sensor however.


Why would you not want the 45 mp sensor? That is like medium format territory


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## compur (Dec 6, 2018)

greybeard said:


> No but I like to crop a lot.  I'm trying to talk myself into a D850 but I fear I might be disappointed.



When you crop an image you are discarding a portion of the image's MPs.


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## greybeard (Dec 6, 2018)

Braineack said:


> disappointed with a d850?!   Time to sell a kidney and go directly for the D5.
> 
> I would love a D850 with the 24MP sensor however.


The d850 with the RAW size set to medium is around 25mp or so


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## bribrius (Dec 6, 2018)

cgw said:


> Camera makers have "mp jonesing" down cold when it comes to separating you from your money.
> 
> So far, 16-24mp APS-C Nikons and Fujis keep me happy. Neighbors still talk to me, too.


Really all anyone needs unless they large print or crop a lot.  I must admit though if prices up in the high mps continue to drop the idea of a large format digital intrigues me.  But yeah, out of my league..


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## Braineack (Dec 6, 2018)

Not the same thing.


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## DarkShadow (Dec 6, 2018)

I have to wonder how many lenses that can actually rock that much resolution from that sensor.all those pixels are a total waist for just posting on the net and I certainly wouldn't want all that resolution just to crop it away.I still would take A D850 and not change a thing on how much i crop away which would be little as possible. IMO 24 MP is a sweet spot and more then enough for most things.


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## Derrel (Dec 6, 2018)

I thought 24MP on Nikon FX was all I would ever need. I shot 24MP FX from 2012 to 2017. Then I bought a used D800, with 36MP on FX. I was _shocked_ at the crop-in ability of 36MP versus 24MP...a MAJOR difference. Even using relatively modest glass on the D800's 36MP sensor, I can crop in and crop in and crop in. So...yeah, 45 MP ought to be quite impressive as far as crop-ability.

I dunno though...24MP NEF files are large....36MP NEF files are significantly larger, and lead to file-bloat. I can only imagine coming home from a big trip to the Oregon coast, with 700 45-MP NEFs to download...OMG...

One of the BIGGEST "sales points" I recall from the 70's and 80's was the massive crop-in capability of medium format film! it's a real joy to me to be able to shoot relatively loose, say going from a half-body pose, and then being able to crop-in to a bust pose, or to a head-and-shoulder pose, from the SAME frame shot with the D800 and studio flash at f/8, with basically almost no visible lack of quality to the final image. These new-generation FX sensors are quite amazing. I would think that the 45-MP sensor ought to offer amazing crop-in capability. I mean, throwing away HALF of the image will still give you almost a 24-MP image...


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## bribrius (Dec 6, 2018)

Derrel said:


> I thought 24MP on Nikon FX was all I would ever need. I shot 24MP FX from 2012 to 2017. Then I bought a used D800, with 36MP on FX. I was _shocked_ at the crop-in ability of 36MP versus 24MP...a MAJOR difference. Even using relatively modest glass on the D800's 36MP sensor, I can crop in and crop in and crop in. So...yeah, 45 MP ought to be quite impressive as far as crop-ability.
> 
> I dunno though...24MP NEF files are large....36MP NEF files are significantly larger, and lead to file-bloat. I can only imagine coming home from a big trip to the Oregon coast, with 700 45-MP NEFs to download...OMG...
> 
> One of the BIGGEST "sales points" I recall from the 70's and 80's was the massive crop-in capability of medium format film! it's a real joy to me to be able to shoot relatively loose, say going from a half-body pose, and then being able to crop-in to a bust pose, or to a head-and-shoulder pose, from the SAME frame shot with the D800 and studio flash at f/8, with basically almost no visible lack of quality to the final image. These new-generation FX sensors are quite amazing. I would think that the 45-MP sensor ought to offer amazing crop-in capability. I mean, throwing away HALF of the image will still give you almost a 24-MP image...


I dont expect most would use that for a vacation camera and have 700 photos. Just the weight alone plus file size. Suppose one never can tell though storage is getting cheaper. I do wonder about glass though. Just thinking i dont even have the best glass now to really utilize 24 mp quality i cant imagine pushing that to 45mp. Crazy out of my league.,,,
Have to wait and hope a bunch more people dump full frames and saturate the market with used fx lenses


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## DarkShadow (Dec 6, 2018)

Nikon D850 paired with the New 500mm f/5.6 PF  for wildlife Drooling.


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## bribrius (Dec 6, 2018)

DarkShadow said:


> I have to wonder how many lenses that can actually rock that much resolution from that sensor.all those pixels are a total waist for just posting on the net and I certainly wouldn't want all that resolution just to crop it away.I still would take A D850 and not change a thing on how much i crop away which would be little as possible. IMO 24 MP is a sweet spot and more then enough for most things.


Truthfully? I haven't shot a play this year. Just didnt feel like it. I havent shown any photographs at a show in over a year. Most i do is for myself and revolves a lot of photos of my kids. I turned down family portraits recently (i kinda suck at them anyway) not into it .  I could probably not even have a camera at all my phone shoots 16 mp and Raw which is good enough for any standard print. I dont shoot wildlife,  dont crop much.


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## Derrel (Dec 6, 2018)

The market is currently saturated with used FX lenses...99 percent of the Nikkor lenses made since 1959 cover full-frame...there are loads of cheap DX lenses, but as I said, the HUGE majority of lenses Nikon has made have always been full-frame-covering lenses. There are plenty of used Nikon full-frame cameras on the used market.


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## bribrius (Dec 6, 2018)

DarkShadow said:


> Nikon D850 paired with the New 500mm f/5.6 PF  for wildlife Drooling.


And how much $$$$?


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## DarkShadow (Dec 6, 2018)

Good deals to.I really like the D4s a lot.


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## bribrius (Dec 6, 2018)

Derrel said:


> The market is currently saturated with used FX lenses...99 percent of the Nikkor lenses made since 1959 cover full-frame...there are loads of cheap DX lenses, but as I said, the HUGE majority of lenses Nikon has made have always been full-frame-covering lenses. There are plenty of used Nikon full-frame cameras on the used market.


Yeah but i want to pay $200 for the $1500 lense so i encourage everyone to switch over. More saturated the better. Maybe they start giving them away,


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## bribrius (Dec 6, 2018)

DarkShadow said:


> Good deals to.I really like the D4s a lot.


 Buying a d4???


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## DarkShadow (Dec 6, 2018)

I want a D4S for under a grand but thats not going happen any time soon unless its for parts only.


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## DarkShadow (Dec 6, 2018)

Umm no not buying anything except the Panasonic GX9 for street and travel.


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## bribrius (Dec 6, 2018)

DarkShadow said:


> Umm no not buying anything except the Panasonic GX9 for street and travel.


Never knew about them. But looks like a nice little camera.  Street is fun, where i live not so much (surrounded by trees ). Any real difference between the 85 and the 9?


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## DarkShadow (Dec 6, 2018)

Do you mean the GX85 GX9 or the G85 or G9


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## bribrius (Dec 6, 2018)

DarkShadow said:


> Do you mean the GX85 GX9 or the G85 or G9


Think it was gx85. When you brought up the 9 i was trying to figure out bang for buck on prices


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## bribrius (Dec 6, 2018)

Less than $600 with a 12-32. Tilt , touch, 4k 

Whats the catch?


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## DarkShadow (Dec 6, 2018)

I have the GX85 already excellent Image quality 16MP but the GX9 though not much different few feature's i want the GX85 don't have like the L Mono Chrome D plus the AF-S AF-C MF switch on the body vs in menu of the GX85 and has the Cinelike D and Cinelike V profile for video plus the tilting EVF that may come in handy.


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## DarkShadow (Dec 6, 2018)

There no catch it was released in 2016 the GX9 replacing it.


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## bribrius (Dec 6, 2018)

DarkShadow said:


> There no catch it was released in 2016 the GX9 replacing it.


I never knew panasonic had $3k cameras. They are much more a part of the market than i was aware of. Over 20 mp, tilt screens. They actually competitive.


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## DarkShadow (Dec 6, 2018)

So back to 45MP who is jumping on the mega mega pixel wagon and what glass to go with it.


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## bribrius (Dec 6, 2018)

DarkShadow said:


> So back to 45MP who is jumping on the mega mega pixel wagon and what glass to go with it.


You


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## DarkShadow (Dec 6, 2018)

No to much for my wallet, The D750 is more in my budget range and a great camera but dont really have a need for full frame I prefer crop sensor for wildlife.


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## bribrius (Dec 6, 2018)

DarkShadow said:


> No to much for my wallet, The D750 is more in my budget range and a great camera but dont really have a need for full frame I prefer crop sensor for wildlife.


If i had to guess. People into landscape photography , Not sure who else it would suit for other than on a tripod,


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## Solarflare (Dec 7, 2018)

greybeard said:


> No but I like to crop a lot.  I'm trying to talk myself into a D850 but I fear I might be disappointed.



Well ... disappointed about what exactly ?

Interestingly the D850 has 45 Megapixel, but ISO 64 and backlit technology, the later which boosts the efficiency by about 30%, while the D700 has ISO 200 and only 12 Megapixel. Thus per pixel the D850 gets about as much light as the good old D700 ! If both are run at their respective base ISO, of course.

Thus the D850 can give you basically the same base performance of the D700 - if of course you run it at ISO 64 - PLUS all technological advances ever since then, such as the Sony EXMOR technology for improved dynamic range.

Other than that, personally no, I dont need 45 Megapixel myself.

I much rather would like to get like 12, 16 or 20 Megapixel with great reserves for all situations, like a D3, D4 or D5 gives you. Now if only somebody would offer a full frame 16 megapixel Nikon DSLR with current technology, backlit and all .. sadly no such luck.

Cropping reserves are nice to have, if not a bit decadent. But mostly the D850 is the current pinnacle of Nikon technology and quality. And its a massive bargain, too. Its release was motivated by Nikon turning 100. I dont think it would have been done this way otherwise. We wouldnt have seen this level of build quality, or this viewfinder.

Thats why I want one. Well, actually, I want two.





bribrius said:


> Why would you not want the 45 mp sensor? That is like medium format territory



Oh good, so that old smartphone from around 2010 - I think it was from Nokia ? - that has 40 Megapixel is actually medium format ? So why did we ever waste so much money on our cameras ? You have shown us the light !

Admit it, next thing you'll say is your iPhone can take as good images as my DSLR. 

If you want medium format, you have to buy medium format. Theres no substitution to sensor size.

And no format is defined by some specific amount of megapixels.

Besides, even the old D700 already can already give you amazing image quality, as does say a Fujifilm X-T3. So yeah, its another case of diminishing returns. With medium format you pay a lot and get a tiny improvement. But it might be just that tiny improvement you always wanted, though.





DarkShadow said:


> I have to wonder how many lenses that can actually rock that much resolution from that sensor.



Why, all of them, and none of them. The whole question is absolute bullocks.

The total resolution of any optical system is decided by the loss of resolution in any component.

All lenses give more resolution if the resolution of the sensor rises.

All sensors give more resolution if the resolution of the lens rises.

Meanwhile I find these rumors that you need current lenses for the D850 completely riddiculous.

First of all, as I just pointed out, higher resolution in lenses shows up even if the sensor isnt so high in resolution.

Second of all old low ISO black and white film could already reach 50 megapixel on small format, so whats new ?

Third of all to get twice the resolution you need four times the pixels. So that mighty D850 ... actually has barely twice the resolution of the D700. Hu ! And you seriously want to tell me all lenses somehow no longer work ? I can assure you thats not the case.

The only reason why people speak such garbage is because they want to sell you the newest crap.

I wont change a single lens when switching to the D850, and my oldest lens is from 1980. I have absolutely zero fear any of my lenses will disappoint. Certainly not the one from 1980, since thats of my sharpest lenses.

Finally it should be added that I view myself primarily as an artist, not as a copying machine. I will gladly leave demands of extreme resolution to those who view themselves more as a copying machine.


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## birdbonkers84 (Dec 7, 2018)

I got one of my landscapes printed at 24"x16" it arrives today, aim is to see how big I can print before it looks poop (I use a D500).  I've printed at 12x8 and the prints look amazing.


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## tirediron (Dec 7, 2018)

DarkShadow said:


> So back to 45MP who is jumping on the mega mega pixel wagon and what glass to go with it.


I use mine with the holy trinity and an 85 1.4.  I'll have to do some tests with some of my older, legacy glass to see what that's like.  No complaints so far however.

I had intended to use it only for portrait work, but the XQD card is so damn fast that I'm actually using it for a lot of event work and other stuff (and chewing through digital storage at a phenomenal rate..).


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## bribrius (Dec 7, 2018)

tirediron said:


> DarkShadow said:
> 
> 
> > So back to 45MP who is jumping on the mega mega pixel wagon and what glass to go with it.
> ...


The space the files takes up.... Yeah i could see that being a problem.


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## Braineack (Dec 7, 2018)

DarkShadow said:


> So back to 45MP who is jumping on the mega mega pixel wagon and what glass to go with it.



Not worried about the glass.  Worried about the processor and HDD.   Lightroom is already the world's worst application for handling large files -- I had to upgrade my rig when I went from 24 to 36MP  in both the processor and storage space.


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## bhop (Dec 7, 2018)

I'm happy with m 12.1 mp D3s. I might feel different if I were a professional studio photographer, but I just shoot for fun, and mostly film, so the latest and greatest digital camera isn't a priority for me.  Most of the issue I have with more mp is the file size. I already hate dealing with digital editing anyway, I can't imagine the suffering that 45mp would cause. I sometimes shoot for work and the camera there is a measely Fujifilm Xt-2 with 24mp, and that already feels more sluggish when editing. Also, having to buy all that extra storage space isn't appealing to me at all.

Obviously, we're all different, but that's my 2¢


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## bribrius (Dec 7, 2018)

Braineack said:


> DarkShadow said:
> 
> 
> > So back to 45MP who is jumping on the mega mega pixel wagon and what glass to go with it.
> ...


I cant use my d800. My computer is to old. It takes me 5 minutes to load a file from just the 7100. The hard disk lights up red on the screen with out of space, out of memory issues.  I have external drive too but havent put enough on it, because the computer is so short on memory and space it takes forever to transfer anything. I did delete enough photos that it almost made it through a defragment session. I think it is like 8 years old? Only 4 or 6 megabytes of ram. Nikon software just freezes sometimes while i edit. Then i have to unplug it and take the battery out and restart it. All really quite amusing. I have sd cards of photos i just hang onto, afraid to try to process them. I probably should have put more photos on the external drive BEFORE it was to this point. It just freezes somtimes now. Poor thing is confused and overloaded. I edit a lot on my phone now


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## DarkShadow (Dec 7, 2018)

Braineack said:


> DarkShadow said:
> 
> 
> > So back to 45MP who is jumping on the mega mega pixel wagon and what glass to go with it.
> ...


 Very good points.


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## dunfly (Dec 7, 2018)

tirediron said:


> DarkShadow said:
> 
> 
> > So back to 45MP who is jumping on the mega mega pixel wagon and what glass to go with it.
> ...



I hope this is not a dumb question, but what do you mean by the "holy trinity".  I'm sure you don't mean onions, celery and bell peppers and I doubt it is a religious reference.


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## tirediron (Dec 7, 2018)

Nikon's "Holy Trinity" refers to the 70-200 f2.8, the 24-70 f2.8, and the 14-24 f2.8.


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## markjwyatt (Dec 7, 2018)

If you really want MPs resolution, stick with film (especially medium format and above; especially fine grained low speed film).


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## Braineack (Dec 7, 2018)

35mm is like 8MP at best...


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## markjwyatt (Dec 7, 2018)

Probably, effectively. That would be non-Bayer, so 24MP Bayer?


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## ac12 (Dec 7, 2018)

With digital you may/have to upgrade your computer (processor, RAM and disk space) as you upgrade your camera.
That is the hidden cost of upgrading the camera.


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## bribrius (Dec 7, 2018)

ac12 said:


> With digital you may/have to upgrade your computer (processor, RAM and disk space) as you upgrade your camera.
> That is the hidden cost of upgrading the camera.


Meh.. Whats another $2500 , pocket change right?


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## DarkShadow (Dec 7, 2018)

My Mac is a mid 2012 2.9 GHz  Intel core i7 with 8 gigs of ram 750 HDD handles 24Mp  piece of cake not sure about the D850  files and no hurry to find out either.


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## markjwyatt (Dec 7, 2018)

My Contax IIa takes as nice of pictures as it did in 1953. On the other hand my Fujifilm XT-2 also takes nice pictures. I suspect the Fujifilm will become obsolete some day, but not the Contax (unless film becomes unavailable).


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## ac12 (Dec 7, 2018)

bribrius said:


> ac12 said:
> 
> 
> > With digital you may/have to upgrade your computer (processor, RAM and disk space) as you upgrade your camera.
> ...



How about TWO computers.
The power desktop at home where you do most of the editing, and the portable laptop for on the road editing.
My desktop is fine (for now), but my laptop definitely needs upgrading, for photo editing.  
The old laptop was struggling to do minor edits after my nephew's wedding last year.  Just not enough horsepower for the image processing.


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## greybeard (Dec 8, 2018)

Not worried about my computer, i7, 16 gig (correction) of ram, 1TB SSD.  I'll convert the RAW to DNG which is about 1/3 smaller than the nef with no data loss.   I've got the glass to take advantage of the MP's.  24 f/2.8, 50mm f/1.4, 105 f/2.8 micro, 300mm f/4 primes plus 24-120 f/4 and 150-600 Tam.  My fear is that the jump from 24mp d750 to 45mp d850 won't show enough difference to be worth the $3300 investment.  I think I'm gonna rent one for a week and just see how good it is.  I have recommended this to several readers with a similar question, time to take my own advise.


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## Braineack (Dec 8, 2018)

really depends on how you use it to get most out of it.


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## Derrel (Dec 8, 2018)

I am a big believer in used camera bodies at substantially lower than new prices. I think you could go for a used D800 or D810, and have 36 million pixels instead of 24 million, and you would get a very substantial improvement over your current 24MP.


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## ac12 (Dec 8, 2018)

greybeard said:


> Not worried about my computer, i7, 16meg of ram, 1TB SSD.  I'll convert the RAW to DNG which is about 1/3 smaller than the nef with no data loss.   I've got the glass to take advantage of the MP's.  24 f/2.8, 50mm f/1.4, 105 f/2.8 micro, 300mm f/4 primes plus 24-120 f/4 and 150-600 Tam.  My fear is that the jump from 24mp d750 to 45mp d850 won't show enough difference to be worth the $3300 investment.  I think I'm gonna rent one for a week and just see how good it is.  I have recommended this to several readers with a similar question, time to take my own advise.



I think you mean 16 GIGAbytes of RAM.

I have done what you are planning to do, heavy cropping, and if you have the sensor and glass resolution to support it, it is neat.

2x the MP resolution is a step that makes sense.  That is 37% more resolution in V and H axis.
But will you crop deep or print big enough, to make use of that increased resolution?  That only YOU can answer.

BTW, be prepared for a significant weight increase.  My notes show the D850 at 21% heavier than the D750.


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## greybeard (Dec 8, 2018)

ac12 said:


> greybeard said:
> 
> 
> > Not worried about my computer, i7, 16meg of ram, 1TB SSD.  I'll convert the RAW to DNG which is about 1/3 smaller than the nef with no data loss.   I've got the glass to take advantage of the MP's.  24 f/2.8, 50mm f/1.4, 105 f/2.8 micro, 300mm f/4 primes plus 24-120 f/4 and 150-600 Tam.  My fear is that the jump from 24mp d750 to 45mp d850 won't show enough difference to be worth the $3300 investment.  I think I'm gonna rent one for a week and just see how good it is.  I have recommended this to several readers with a similar question, time to take my own advise.
> ...


Yes, I mean gig and not meg and thanks for your response.


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## greybeard (Dec 8, 2018)

Derrel said:


> I am a big believer in used camera bodies at substantially lower than new prices. I think you could go for a used D800 or D810, and have 36 million pixels instead of 24 million, and you would get a very substantial improvement over your current 24MP.


I have considered that too.  I can get a* like new D810* with like 8,000 clicks for around $1600 from mpb.  But, it lacks a few of the newer features like the improved AF, flippy touch screen etc. that I really like.


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## Derrel (Dec 8, 2018)

Well then, dig out the checkbook...


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## Peeb (Dec 9, 2018)

Actually pondering going the opposite direction:  FEWER megapixels.  Currently shooting 24MP, and looking at a 20.9 MP  D500.


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## ac12 (Dec 9, 2018)

Peeb said:


> Actually pondering going the opposite direction:  FEWER megapixels.  Currently shooting 24MP, and looking at a 20.9 MP  D500.



I think that is the theory behind large photosites, where each pixel is larger and able to gather more total light than a smaller pixel on a higher MP sensor.  So the DR is better, because of the larger pixel.


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## D7K (Dec 9, 2018)

D850 45MP RAW files can be edited without annoying delays on my 2017 MacBook Pro (16Gb RAM/i7).  Extra storage is a requirement however..


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## Braineack (Dec 9, 2018)

ac12 said:


> I think that is the theory behind large photosites, where each pixel is larger and able to gather more total light than a smaller pixel on a higher MP sensor.  So the DR is better, because of the larger pixel.



modern tech has made this rule-of-thumb invalid.






the DR between the 24MP and the 36MP is nearly identical.

I notice no difference in IQ between my D610 and D800 shooting the exact same shot -- but  I benefit greatly from the increased resolution and there's simply much more fine detail in the same shot using the same lens/settings.


If this theory was true, the Df at 16MP would have better DR than the 24MP, 36MP and 45MP sensors:





But alas....   it's high ISO performance is on par with the 45MP sensor, but it's low iso performance is on par with a Canon sensor.


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## DarkShadow (Dec 9, 2018)

In reality the High noise is much lower on my D7500 then my previous D7200 so I think the combination of the drop in the pix count and newer processor made a very noticeable difference.


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## DanOstergren (Dec 9, 2018)

Unless you're making huge prints, *you do not need it.* Get a lens instead, or make/buy a painted canvas backdrop if you photograph people. Get some lighting gear. But you don't need 45 megapixels.


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## PixFixer (Dec 11, 2018)

cgw said:


> Camera makers have "mp jonesing" down cold when it comes to separating you from your money.
> 
> So far, 16-24mp APS-C Nikons and Fujis keep me happy. Neighbors still talk to me, too.



You're right. However the day will soon come when the 100mp, very low noise, low light cam will be the norm. You will want one of those. So will I. Here is the best part, the prices will also come down. We better start saving now.   Oh, my neighbors never did talk to me anyway. Cars won't even drive down my block. Something about that nurd with the camera.


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## mrca (Dec 11, 2018)

Dan is absolutely right, if most of your work is shown on a computer or other device or you aren't printing large,  you don't need all those megapixels.  Someone mentioned shooting in lower res files with the d850,  but I prefer  to shoot in the various crop modes since there is less image degradation.   a 24x36 standard ratio shot is 46 mp. But I have programmed the video button + rear wheel to allow me to scroll to square or 4x5  format, both of which I use for portraiture most of the time except when shooting environmental portraits or need an area for text.     In 4x5 mode the camera only stores that area or 36 mp and square at 30.   When you select either in the viewfinder the areas eliminated are grayed but visible and you are looking at the cropped image to help with composition.  I am a print photographer and regularly print large,  like at least once or twice a week (today is print day),  so the higher mp are a big selling point for me.   The cropping advantage also translates to allowing you to lighten your camera bag.  Instead of a 3 lb 70-200 with 22 elements, I can carry a 7 element 135 2.o dc that blows the doors off the zoom quality and bokeh and then can easily crop down to what would have captured at 200 mm and still leave plenty of pixels.   A 35, 85 and 135 make a great walk about kit with this camera.


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## pixmedic (Dec 11, 2018)

it seems like we are back in a bit of a "megapixel war" between the various camera companies. 
my first digital camera was a 1.5mp (thats one-point-five!) sony mavica. it took 3.5" floppy disks as "Memory cards".  it was pretty innovative and high tech at the time. 
i had the $1200 version that had a huge motor attached to the lens section that was an early version of image stabilization. again, high tech at the time. 
it didnt take very long for the MP wars to kick into full gear.  my first paid work was shot on a 6mp D100, about a year after they were first released. then the 12mp D200 and D300, the 16mp D7000, and eventually the 24mp D600. 

people asked this same question when the 24mp sensors came out. do we NEED 24mp? perhaps more so when the 36mp D800 came out.  36MP!! who NEEDS 36mp?!?
now its 45mp, 50mp...im sure this isn't even the end of the MP line. 

i find most of my camera upgrades have been more of a "want" than a "need". the most significant upgrades have been more in low light performance than in what i can do with more megapixels. do you NEED 45mp? that isn't really the question. do you WANT 45mp? also, what else are you getting from that 45mp camera besides more megapixels?
better low light performance? fps? buffer size or speed? wireless connections? maybe you cant justify the MP jump, but if the camera offers other upgraded features it might be worth it. is it worth it JUST for a MP upgrade? probably not unless you print very very large, or crop very very close in.


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## Braineack (Dec 11, 2018)

I'll tell you what though, when you start looking at these large MP files at 100% it's hard to go back -- the only downside anymore is your computer processing power and space.


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## greybeard (Dec 11, 2018)

Well, the wife gave me the OK and so it is in a B+H cart with a vellos grip waiting for me to pull the trigger.


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## greybeard (Dec 12, 2018)

Trigger has been pulled


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## Solarflare (Dec 13, 2018)

Braineack said:


> I'll tell you what though, when you start looking at these large MP files at 100% it's hard to go back -- the only downside anymore is your computer processing power and space.


Speak for yourself.

I use a 12 Megapixel D700 quite happily next to my 24 Megapixel D750.

I dont think I'll stop using either if I get a D850. Which probably will happen at some point.


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## D7K (Dec 13, 2018)

greybeard said:


> Trigger has been pulled



Looking forward to you feedback and some shots! Hands down the best camera I've ever used, still learning to fully tame the beast but love it!


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## greybeard (Dec 13, 2018)

It just came.




D850 opening by TOM STRAIGHT, on Flickr




D850 opening-2 by TOM STRAIGHT, on Flickr




D850 opening-3 by TOM STRAIGHT, on Flickr




D850 opening-5 by TOM STRAIGHT, on Flickr




D850 opening-4 by TOM STRAIGHT, on Flickr


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## zulu42 (Dec 13, 2018)

Yee haw! Congrats. That is one nice chunk of photo making goodness.


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## Braineack (Dec 13, 2018)

funny cause there were people like 6 months ago waiting for this shipment of D850s and you get it in a few days


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## DarkShadow (Dec 13, 2018)

Yea and now there is used one's floating around.Congrats! My friend has one and getting some cracking landscapes from it. he also has the Canon 5D 50 MP the 6D and Olympus OMD 1 Mark II all took a back seat.


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## greybeard (Dec 13, 2018)

Braineack said:


> funny cause there were people like 6 months ago waiting for this shipment of D850s and you get it in a few days


Yeah, I ordered it yesterday morning and it was here this morning.  I ended up buying from Adorama with free overnight shipping.


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## greybeard (Dec 13, 2018)

First Shots 50mm 1.4 f/8, SB700 pointed at ceiling ISO 64

Full Frame




Tree Topper 50mm f-1.4 @ f-8 SB700 flash ISO 64 full frame by TOM STRAIGHT, on Flickr

1:1 crop




Tree Topper 50mm f-1.4 @ f-8 SB700 flash ISO 64 Crop 1-1 by TOM STRAIGHT, on Flickr


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## greybeard (Dec 14, 2018)

D7K said:


> greybeard said:
> 
> 
> > Trigger has been pulled
> ...


I see you have the 24-70 non VR.  How well does it holdup handheld at 45mp?


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## D7K (Dec 14, 2018)

I always shoot at full 45mp and it holds it own for sure.. Never had any issues or specific complaints..


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## shadowlands (Dec 14, 2018)

I'm the weird person who sold my 36MP and all of my 2.8 zooms and went back to 16MP and all AF primes. Boom!


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## greybeard (Dec 14, 2018)

shadowlands said:


> I'm the weird person who sold my 36MP and all of my 2.8 zooms and went back to 16MP and all AF primes. Boom!


And I'm sure you are getting some wonderful results.  The best zooms can only resolve 16mp.  I've shot some test shots with my 24-120 f/4 and comparing the D850 to the D750 using that lens there is little if any difference.  But, with my 50mm f/1.4 and 105mm 2.8 macro there is an extra level of detail.  If you are gonna shoot zooms with a D850, you might as well set the RAW size to medium which is around 25mp and save the space. (jmho)


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## Tailgunner (Dec 16, 2018)

DarkShadow said:


> Nikon D850 paired with the New 500mm f/5.6 PF  for wildlife Drooling.



I'm entertaining this very idea. So how well does a D850 work in Wildlife and can it do it without a grip?


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## Tailgunner (Dec 16, 2018)

shadowlands said:


> I'm the weird person who sold my 36MP and all of my 2.8 zooms and went back to 16MP and all AF primes. Boom!



Its nothing I planned on doing but I have found myself switching to primes here lately. I mean don't get me wrong, there is some decent zooms out there, the Nikon 14-24 is awesome. But I find primes to be sharper, more consistent, and in some cases, just easier. I miss my 14-24 but I love my more compact 20mm 2.8.

I'm still a sucker for resolution however, its nice to be able to crop an image down some and still have a nice image. I do some printing but most of the stuff I have sold is smaller prints. So I guess its not a huge deal but that could change in time and need the MPs.


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## greybeard (Dec 18, 2018)

I've had a few days to play around with the D850 and I've come to some conclusions about it.  Comparing 24mp to 46mp is like comparing a sound recording that has been sampled at 44Khz to one that has been sampled at 96Khz.   It depends on the microphones, the studio, the mic pre-amps and most of all the quality placement of the microphones.  If everything in the audio chain is up to the quality of the 96Khz recorder then you should hear a pretty dramatic difference.  If you are using a D850 with a 24-120 kit lens, you may not see much difference between 24 and 46 mp but if you are using a high quality zoom or prime and with the right subject matter you may see a difference.  Do I need 45 mp?  No but it's nice to have if and when I do.

The D850 has so many nice features and is extremely customizable.   One setting I like is to set the Raw size to crop and enable the mask.  This give me a 21mp crop frame with the advanced focusing system of the D5-D500  that will keep snapping at 7 fps for as long as you hold down the shutter button.   This should work pretty well with my 150-600 and wildlife.   I can switch to 46mp Full Frame by holding down the record button and one click of the control.  *Custom Settings Bank/Photo shooting menu bank*  has a fairly steep learning curve (at least it does for me) but it is really awesome once you get the hang of it.  Like others wrote, it will point out any flaws in your glass and techniques.   My old Tokina 28-70 f/2.8 looks great in the center but it falls pretty short on the edges.  And the raw/dng files have a lot of CA but the jpegs are clean.   The in-camera JPEG correction is outstanding.

It is a bit flakey about aftermarket lenses and grips.   All of the controls on my Vello grip  accept for the *Shutter Release* and *Focus button *stopped working last night.  I was ready to send the grip back when I tried doing a reset on the camera.  After that it started working just fine.  My old Tokina 28-70 f/2.8 was focusing just fine this morning but decided to stop focusing this afternoon.  I mounted a Nikon AF-S lens which focused just fine and then the Tokina started focusing just fine.  *FLAKEY*


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## Braineack (Dec 18, 2018)

make sure both batteries are charged when using a grip.  My can freak out if the battery in the grip gets too low, despite having a full battery in body.


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## greybeard (Dec 18, 2018)

Braineack said:


> make sure both batteries are charged when using a grip.  My can freak out if the battery in the grip gets too low, despite having a full battery in body.


Thanks, I'll do that.  Which grip do you have?


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