# Why All the Hate?



## aaronlecain

I don't get why people make a point to attack Sony. Everyone is entitled to their opinions but I don't go into Nikon threads complaining about their rifle scopes, or canon thread hating their printers. Why all the hate? I am a Sony Fan boy and love all of my Sony products. They are a big company for a reason. They must be doing something right. I just don't care for the negative when someone asks a question or for advice. 

I do not Judge a Sony Camera by their PS3 or other non-camera gear. That is all. my rant about rants is over. Long live Sony..... it is Sony Camera subforum afterall.


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## rexbobcat




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## Robin Usagani

I love sony.... the thing I hate about sony DSLR is that it is so hard to find a used lens for it on local CL.


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## kenerickson

Schwettylens said:


> I love sony.... the thing I hate about sony DSLR is that it is so hard to find a used lens for it on local CL.



I recently purchased a new A57 and have been having a ball buying used lens on the Bay.  I purchased a Minolta 50 mm prime, Minolta 35-70 and Tokina 75-300 for around $150 including shipping. I moved up from a Pentax K100d and so far, after a short learning curve, have come to like the Sony.


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## snowbear

I like Sony - they made the sensor in my Nikon.


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## Kolia

It's actually not as bad as it was a few months ago. 

There is no logical explanation for it. I'm all for a health smack talk now and then. It's fun as long as everybody keep their perspective when arguing with faceless people you don't know and will probably never meet ! 

Just read over the silly remarks and carry on with the topics. People usually revert to their good nature when nobody bites.


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## Derrel

Probably goes back to BetaMax. Then Memory Stick. Then illegally invading customer's PC's with spyware that reported back on user behavior. Then dealer price-fixing. Stuff like that. A corporation can try to f&%^ people over only so many times before said corporation becomes known as the corporation that tries to  f&%^ people over by imposing ridiculous conditions on the use of its products.  I personally have little animosity toward Sony Corp., but quite a few people absolutely LOATHE the company and its products. Sony is kind of like the Microsoft of the electronics business...liked by many...hated by many...


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## rexbobcat

Sony is like the Apple of general electronics in the fact that many of their innovations are proprietary, and eventually die because of that. lol.

"Dude, how much memory do your memory sticks hold?" 

"Wtf are you talking about?"


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## Derrel

rexbobcat said:


> Sony is like the Apple of general electronics in the fact that many of their innovations are proprietary, and eventually die because of that. lol.
> 
> "Dude, how much memory do your memory sticks hold?"
> 
> "Wtf are you talking about?"



Exactly. Apple's innovations have all been,mostly short-lived, dead-end flops. Like the GUI they saw at Xerox's lab, then turned into a workable personal computing interface with graphics and that useless, piece of chit "computer mouse" idea. How stupid of Apple.

And compressed computer video--Steve Jobs's dream...that was another stoooopid Apple innovation. And putting CD-players in each and every computer made--another idiotic Apple innovation that died out and went nowhere. And putting that worthless-as-teats-on-a boar "USB" plug-in on EVERY computer....Gawd, Apple had some stupid engineers on that worthless innovation project. Gawd, that was DUMB. 

And the all-in-one computer concept, that iMac idea...that lasted from the late 1990's until when? 2000? 2001? Oh, and that stupid Apple innovation called "music downloading by the song"--dumber than hell. And that Apple innovation, the wahtzit..the *iPod*??? WHALES swim in pods...music has nothing to do with "Pods"...and that old "plug and play" concept of chit that "just works"...yet another in the long list of Apple innovations that were stupid and died out....

I love all the Apple innovations that have died out.


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## aaronlecain

For every failed tech there are many that take hold and contribute. I feel that the Quality of sony Cameras keep up with others. I look at all the failed tech from the past and they all contributed in one way or another. My point in this thread was why do people feel the need to post bashing Sony as a company when someone is just looking for reviews of a product.


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## cgipson1

aaronlecain said:


> For every failed tech there are many that take hold and contribute. I feel that the Quality of sony Cameras keep up with others. I look at all the failed tech from the past and they all contributed in one way or another. My point in this thread was why do people feel the need to post bashing Sony as a company when someone is just looking for reviews of a product.



Because they have a history of repeatedly doing what they think is best for SONY... even if it screws the consumer (lots of lawsuits!). It has basically happened in almost every product line they make! And it will happen with the DSLR camera line also. There is a saying.. that those that do not know history, are doomed to repeat the mistakes others have made! Do you really think their proven, repeated history bodes well for anyone that purchases Sony electronics?


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## aaronlecain

Every company does what is best for the Company. I stand by every one of my Sony electronics. Pointing out only the flaws in any company will make that company look bad.  From my very first Sony walkman to my Sony A77 to the computer this was typed on while watching my Sony TV playing a Sony Blueray on a Sony Blueray. I have more experiance than some with Sony products and will continue buying sony products. Why? Because my experiance and opinion says it is a safe bet. I deal with personal experiance and Sony has not let me down.


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## Kolia

The whole concept of portable music comes from Sony's Walkman. How about CD ? 

Sony was IT in electronics not so long ago. Apple's success is pretty recent. And Apple is very annoying with proprietary stuff. Thunder bolt connectors ? Music format ? iOS is dropping Google, blocking competing Apps...  Don't fool yourselves...

Some users make it a point of trolling Sony topics. If that's what makes them feel like they live a meaningful life, let them do it.


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## DiskoJoe

Kolia said:


> Some users make it a point of trolling Sony topics. If that's what makes them feel like they live a meaningful life, let them do it.



This about sums it up. I like my a580. Works good. Price was good. Pics look just like a d7000 that it shares the same processing chip with.


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## durhamskywriter

I'm very happy with my Sony A700. But then, I'm happy for the ability to take photos that some people enjoy looking at. After growing up using el-cheapo cameras, I'd be just as pleased with an Olympus, Nikon, or whatever else is out there. The challenge is in capturing special moments just right, which would probably be fun with just about any camera. Mine just happens to be a Sony.


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## SamSpade1941

Kolia said:


> The whole concept of portable music comes from Sony's Walkman. How about CD ?
> 
> Sony was IT in electronics not so long ago. Apple's success is pretty recent. And Apple is very annoying with proprietary stuff. Thunder bolt connectors ? Music format ? iOS is dropping Google, blocking competing Apps...  Don't fool yourselves...
> 
> Some users make it a point of trolling Sony topics. If that's what makes them feel like they live a meaningful life, let them do it.




Actually Phillips had way more to do with CD technology than Sony did , Sony's contribution to the CD was the error correction method that came to be used in CD technology. Phillips pretty much developed everything else that had to do with the Compact Disc.  Sony's largest contribution to the development of the Compact Disc was their music catalog and the fact that the very first music published to CD were recording artists signed to Sony's music label.  With Abba and Billy Joel being the first two recording artists to be released on CD.  

Not taking anything away from their achievements, just wanting to set the record straight in how it went down. As for Apple. I would remind you that were it not for Apple computer standardizing things like USB, Bluetooth, Firewire and 802.11. We would most likely not be where we are today as the hodgepodge of PC manufacturers including big blue tended to fight for years over technology before something finally emerged as a standard.  My PowerMac G5 which I still use today to process photographs on was purchased in 2005 , is a 64 bit computer and has 16 GB of RAM  and dual processors back when dual cores were a dream in a PC. 

Food For Thought.


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## rexbobcat

Derrel said:
			
		

> Exactly. Apple's innovations have all been,mostly short-lived, dead-end flops. Like the GUI they saw at Xerox's lab, then turned into a workable personal computing interface with graphics and that useless, piece of chit "computer mouse" idea. How stupid of Apple.
> 
> And compressed computer video--Steve Jobs's dream...that was another stoooopid Apple innovation. And putting CD-players in each and every computer made--another idiotic Apple innovation that died out and went nowhere. And putting that worthless-as-teats-on-a boar "USB" plug-in on EVERY computer....Gawd, Apple had some stupid engineers on that worthless innovation project. Gawd, that was DUMB.
> 
> And the all-in-one computer concept, that iMac idea...that lasted from the late 1990's until when? 2000? 2001? Oh, and that stupid Apple innovation called "music downloading by the song"--dumber than hell. And that Apple innovation, the wahtzit..the iPod??? WHALES swim in pods...music has nothing to do with "Pods"...and that old "plug and play" concept of chit that "just works"...yet another in the long list of Apple innovations that were stupid and died out....
> 
> I love all the Apple innovations that have died out.



I wasn't talking about Apple's stuff dying out. I was referring to their proprietary nature. Sony's innovations were things that no oft asked for an nobody really wanted.

Sarcastic Apple fanboyism doesn't really you make your point any better than just explaining your stance. It. Really. Doesn't.

Way to get overly-defensive. :thumbsup:


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## MLeeK

I have nothing against Sony, per se. I just choose Canon. If I were starting all over again I'd probably choose Nikon. Sony isn't in the running for me. That doesn't mean they make crap or that they do. It seems to me that they are really taking huge leaps and bounds. From what I see they are producing some awesome cameras.


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## dxqcanada

Nikon, Canon, Pentax, Olympus, etc ... have a long history in photographic equipment.
Sony is a new player that bought themselves into this area ... so I think many feel that they do not deserve to be compared to others.
I think it would be different if we were talking about a current Minolta SLT/DSL camera.

Consider the fact that there is less Ricoh bashing than Sony bashing ... and Ricoh never did have much respect in the old days of film.


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## IByte

Derrel said:
			
		

> Probably goes back to BetaMax. Then Memory Stick. Then illegally invading customer's PC's with spyware that reported back on user behavior. Then dealer price-fixing. Stuff like that. A corporation can try to f&%^ people over only so many times before said corporation becomes known as the corporation that tries to  f&%^ people over by imposing ridiculous conditions on the use of its products.  I personally have little animosity toward Sony Corp., but quite a few people absolutely LOATHE the company and its products. Sony is kind of like the Microsoft of the electronics business...liked by many...hated by many...



Cough..cough..Best Buy is the devil..cough..cough


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## Derrel

Best Buy is an excellent source of free entertainment...

One can even buy a Windoze Pee-Cee there, as well as a Sone-eeee digital camruh.


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## manaheim

Derrel said:


> Probably goes back to BetaMax. Then Memory Stick. Then illegally invading customer's PC's with spyware that reported back on user behavior. Then dealer price-fixing. Stuff like that. A corporation can try to f&%^ people over only so many times before said corporation becomes known as the corporation that tries to  f&%^ people over by imposing ridiculous conditions on the use of its products.  I personally have little animosity toward Sony Corp., but quite a few people absolutely LOATHE the company and its products. Sony is kind of like the Microsoft of the electronics business...liked by many...hated by many...



Sony is a horrible company.  This was not always the case.  

There was once a time when anytime I needed an electronic product, I basically looked for that item with a Sony label on it, and all was right with the world.  These days it's the very last thing I'll buy.

so the reasons why...

Their ergonomics tend to be quite poor and ridiculously inconsistent.  At one point I had 3 Sony TVs all purchased within a few months and each one had a WILDLY different remote.

Their quality has slipped crazily on many of their products.  They fall apart, break easily, etc.

They implement ridiculous technologies that are totally proprietary and put a strangle-hold on the industry so that no one else will adopt it.  (as others mentioned... memory stick)

They actively screw their customers... as Derrell mentioned... root kits on music CDs.  

They actively crush innovation.  Anyone here have an HD DVD?  Ohhhh, so Sorry.  Sony went to all the movie houses and said "If you don't do bluray exclusively, you can say buhbye to your distribution channels."

They built a crappy back-end network for their playstation product and wound up losing everyone's private information and credit cards.  Then the network was down for MONTHS.  MONTHS.  As they rebuilt it.

And on and on and on.

Their politics are bad.  Their products are bad.  Their principles are bad.

They are just an overwhelming suckhole... and even to the point where some years ago the CEO came out and said "oh my god we suck"... but they still suck.  (this was well before the network incident)

It just so happens in the middle of all this, that Sony's camera group tends to be decent to pretty darn good, but I wouldn't give Sony a dime I don't have to on principle alone, so I don't care if the goddamned camera had a 20 stop dynamic range, 36MP raws that were only 12Meg, shot zero-noise pictures in absolute dark, made me a ****ing ham sandwich for lunch every day at 11:30 and Sony actually gave me $10 to own it.  I wouldn't take it.

Sony SUCKS.


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## Derrel

rexbobcat said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly. Apple's innovations have all been,mostly short-lived, dead-end flops. Like the GUI they saw at Xerox's lab, then turned into a workable personal computing interface with graphics and that useless, piece of chit "computer mouse" idea. How stupid of Apple.
> 
> And compressed computer video--Steve Jobs's dream...that was another stoooopid Apple innovation. And putting CD-players in each and every computer made--another idiotic Apple innovation that died out and went nowhere. And putting that worthless-as-teats-on-a boar "USB" plug-in on EVERY computer....Gawd, Apple had some stupid engineers on that worthless innovation project. Gawd, that was DUMB.
> 
> And the all-in-one computer concept, that iMac idea...that lasted from the late 1990's until when? 2000? 2001? Oh, and that stupid Apple innovation called "music downloading by the song"--dumber than hell. And that Apple innovation, the wahtzit..the iPod??? WHALES swim in pods...music has nothing to do with "Pods"...and that old "plug and play" concept of chit that "just works"...yet another in the long list of Apple innovations that were stupid and died out....
> 
> I love all the Apple innovations that have died out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't talking about Apple's stuff dying out. I was referring to their proprietary nature. Sony's innovations were things that no oft asked for an nobody really wanted.
> 
> Sarcastic Apple fanboyism doesn't really you make your point any better than just explaining your stance. It. Really. Doesn't.
> 
> Way to get overly-defensive. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...


Way to write like a sixth-grader. You wrote:   *Sony is like the Apple of general electronics in the fact that many of their innovations are proprietary, and eventually die because of that.* lol.

"Dude, how much memory do your memory sticks hold?" 

"*Wtf are you talking about?"
*

Sorry if I misunderstood your primitive attempt at expressing a point of view...you seemed like yet another Windoze fanboy to me, and I know that you are not old enough to KNOW,first-hand, what Apple's innovations actually were...NOR are you old enough to KNOW that many people did not want or welcome Appple's innovations...many Apple customers kvetched and moaned about Apple innovations, for the most part. Apple was busy revolutionizing computing when you were in diapers...and yet you tried to  characterize the company with a flippant,off-base, throw-away comment...

"Plonk". (do you know what PLONK! means???)


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## Ballistics

Derrel said:


> rexbobcat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sony is like the Apple of general electronics in the fact that many of their innovations are proprietary, and eventually die because of that. lol.
> 
> "Dude, how much memory do your memory sticks hold?"
> 
> "Wtf are you talking about?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly. Apple's innovations have all been,mostly short-lived, dead-end flops. Like the GUI they saw at Xerox's lab, then turned into a workable personal computing interface with graphics and that useless, piece of chit "computer mouse" idea. How stupid of Apple.
> 
> And compressed computer video--Steve Jobs's dream...that was another stoooopid Apple innovation. And putting CD-players in each and every computer made--another idiotic Apple innovation that died out and went nowhere. And putting that worthless-as-teats-on-a boar "USB" plug-in on EVERY computer....Gawd, Apple had some stupid engineers on that worthless innovation project. Gawd, that was DUMB.
> 
> And the all-in-one computer concept, that iMac idea...that lasted from the late 1990's until when? 2000? 2001? Oh, and that stupid Apple innovation called "music downloading by the song"--dumber than hell. And that Apple innovation, the wahtzit..the *iPod*??? WHALES swim in pods...music has nothing to do with "Pods"...and that old "plug and play" concept of chit that "just works"...yet another in the long list of Apple innovations that were stupid and died out....
> 
> I love all the Apple innovations that have died out.
Click to expand...


Great example of why I thought that post in the support thread was sarcastic.


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## Derrel

Ballistics said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rexbobcat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sony is like the Apple of general electronics in the fact that many of their innovations are proprietary, and eventually die because of that. lol.
> 
> "Dude, how much memory do your memory sticks hold?"
> 
> "Wtf are you talking about?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly. Apple's innovations have all been,mostly short-lived, dead-end flops. Like the GUI they saw at Xerox's lab, then turned into a workable personal computing interface with graphics and that useless, piece of chit "computer mouse" idea. How stupid of Apple.
> 
> And compressed computer video--Steve Jobs's dream...that was another stoooopid Apple innovation. And putting CD-players in each and every computer made--another idiotic Apple innovation that died out and went nowhere. And putting that worthless-as-teats-on-a boar "USB" plug-in on EVERY computer....Gawd, Apple had some stupid engineers on that worthless innovation project. Gawd, that was DUMB.
> 
> And the all-in-one computer concept, that iMac idea...that lasted from the late 1990's until when? 2000? 2001? Oh, and that stupid Apple innovation called "music downloading by the song"--dumber than hell. And that Apple innovation, the wahtzit..the *iPod*??? WHALES swim in pods...music has nothing to do with "Pods"...and that old "plug and play" concept of chit that "just works"...yet another in the long list of Apple innovations that were stupid and died out....
> 
> I love all the Apple innovations that have died out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Great example of why I thought that post in the support thread was sarcastic.
Click to expand...


BUT, my comment in the Forum thread was NOT sarcastic, as I told you, Ballistics. I have LONG supported slimming this forum DOWN, into FEWER sub-fora. *"Doah!"* Some people (meaning YOU, Ballistics) seem incapable of understanding that a person's personality can encompass the ability to write with hyperbole, or sincerity, humor, aggression, sympathy, or any one of a host of other qualities. Please pull your panties out of your crack, mmkay?

For those who have ZERO idea of what Ballistics is whining about, let me state that he is *bringing up his own OP* from several days ago, in the Feedback forum here on TPF. Let me re-state what I wrote in that thread after Ballistics accused me of being sarcastic in my supoport of his very own idea of condensing the Photo Forums down to FIVE sub-fora: 

*AGAIN, I SUPPORT slimming the Photo Posting Forums down to FIVE categories. The ones YOU suggested.* I have long supported creating a TPF that has FAR fewer sub-categories. Now, can you, Ballistics, please stop acting like being a wounded animal, and recognize that *this thread, this Why the SONY hate? thread, *has NOTHING to do with your hurt feelings. Why are you hijacking this thread? Are you still stinging from *me supporting your idea in public?* Why didn't you just PM me, like a man?  

Anyway...Sony...I don't hate them. Samsung makes better electronics, so I'll usually buy their stuff instead of Sony stuff. Sony USED to make good electronics, but a spate of poor Sony products made me look elsewhere.


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## charlie76

aaronlecain said:
			
		

> They are a big company for a reason.



That is a wide open statement...besides the hardware quality...and I feel like commenting on the social aspects of this enormous corporation.  Do you really want to get into this discussion?


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## Ballistics

Derrel said:


> Ballistics said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly. Apple's innovations have all been,mostly short-lived, dead-end flops. Like the GUI they saw at Xerox's lab, then turned into a workable personal computing interface with graphics and that useless, piece of chit "computer mouse" idea. How stupid of Apple.
> 
> And compressed computer video--Steve Jobs's dream...that was another stoooopid Apple innovation. And putting CD-players in each and every computer made--another idiotic Apple innovation that died out and went nowhere. And putting that worthless-as-teats-on-a boar "USB" plug-in on EVERY computer....Gawd, Apple had some stupid engineers on that worthless innovation project. Gawd, that was DUMB.
> 
> And the all-in-one computer concept, that iMac idea...that lasted from the late 1990's until when? 2000? 2001? Oh, and that stupid Apple innovation called "music downloading by the song"--dumber than hell. And that Apple innovation, the wahtzit..the *iPod*??? WHALES swim in pods...music has nothing to do with "Pods"...and that old "plug and play" concept of chit that "just works"...yet another in the long list of Apple innovations that were stupid and died out....
> 
> I love all the Apple innovations that have died out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great example of why I thought that post in the support thread was sarcastic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> BUT, my comment in the Forum thread was NOT sarcastic, as I told you, Ballistics. I have LONG supported slimming this forum DOWN, into FEWER sub-fora. *"Doah!"* Some people (meaning YOU, Ballistics) seem incapable of understanding that a person's personality can encompass the ability to write with hyperbole, or sincerity, humor, aggression, sympathy, or any one of a host of other qualities. Please pull your panties out of your crack, mmkay?
> 
> For those who have ZERO idea of what Ballistics is whining about, let me state that he is *bringing up his own OP* from several days ago, in the Feedback forum here on TPF. Let me re-state what I wrote in that thread after Ballistics accused me of being sarcastic in my supoport of his very own idea of condensing the Photo Forums down to FIVE sub-fora:
> 
> *AGAIN, I SUPPORT slimming the Photo Posting Forums down to FIVE categories. The ones YOU suggested.* I have long supported creating a TPF that has FAR fewer sub-categories. Now, can you, Ballistics, please stop acting like being a wounded animal, and recognize that *this thread, this Why the SONY hate? thread, *has NOTHING to do with your hurt feelings. Why are you hijacking this thread? Are you still stinging from *me supporting your idea in public?* Why didn't you just PM me, like a man?
> 
> Anyway...Sony...I don't hate them. Samsung makes better electronics, so I'll usually buy their stuff instead of Sony stuff. Sony USED to make good electronics, but a spate of poor Sony products made me look elsewhere.
Click to expand...


Holy crap, why so touchy? I simply acknowledged my suspicion that what you were saying was sarcastic in the other thread. You are VERY sarcastic. Whether or not you think so, and sometimes it's not so telegraphed. Instead of taking a swing at my intelligence, how about you take it down a notch. You can write with all of those traits, but sometimes it's difficult to know if you are being sincere, sarcastic, humorous, or just a flat out dick. I wasn't sure if you were serious or being sarcastic so I asked. Therefore, your judgment of me is baseless.

 Not only are you sarcastic, but you romanticize with dramatic fashion.


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## aaronlecain

This entire thread is making me think I need to find another Photography forum. Members attacking members. This isn't what I got into Photography. I enjoyed talking to like minded people that enjoyed photography together. Good luck to you all. 

Don't Feed The Trolls.


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## Ballistics

aaronlecain said:


> This entire thread is making me think I need to find another Photography forum. Members attacking members. This isn't what I got into Photography. I enjoyed talking to like minded people that enjoyed photography together. Good luck to you all.
> 
> Don't Feed The Trolls.



Your contributions will be dearly missed.


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## charlie76

aaronlecain said:
			
		

> This entire thread is making me think I need to find another Photography forum. Members attacking members. This isn't what I got into Photography. I enjoyed talking to like minded people that enjoyed photography together. Good luck to you all.
> 
> Don't Feed The Trolls.



um.....where's the forum where everyone strokes each others back?  Oh..that's where the good photographers hang out!!! adios


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## Tuffythepug

aaronlecain said:


> This entire thread is making me think I need to find another Photography forum. Members attacking members. This isn't what I got into Photography. I enjoyed talking to like minded people that enjoyed photography together. Good luck to you all.
> 
> Don't Feed The Trolls.




That's why there is an "ignore" button.   :thumbup:    Why not stick around for the good stuff and ignore the rest


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## aaronlecain

Tuffythepug said:


> That's why there is an "ignore" button. :thumbup: Why not stick around for the good stuff and ignore the rest



Thanks I will use it. I don't need a forum to justify how good or bad my photography is.


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## unpopular

DERRRRRRRP>


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## Ballistics

aaronlecain said:


> Tuffythepug said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's why there is an "ignore" button. :thumbup: Why not stick around for the good stuff and ignore the rest
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks I will use it. I don't need a forum to justify how good or bad my photography is.
Click to expand...


Is this your first forum? If you want to talk photography, check out the galleries section.


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## aaronlecain

Not my first forum but it is my first Photography forum with this format. I have never had to ignore members before in any other forum.


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## charlie76

*insert chicken cluck noise here*


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## Ballistics

aaronlecain said:


> Not my first forum but it is my first Photography forum with this format. I have never had to ignore members before in any other forum.



The issue is that there is a ton of knowledge to be received from even the people that you want to ignore. You gotta take the good with bad on this forum. When it comes to a difference in opinion on crap that doesn't really matter, people can get personal and childish, but the critiquing in this forum compared to others is pretty good.


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## PhotoWrangler

Derrel said:


> I love all the Apple innovations that have died out.




*SNORT!* LOL LOL LOL!! I think I love you Derrel.


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## manaheim

charlie76 said:
			
		

> um.....where's the forum where everyone strokes each others back?  Oh..that's where the good photographers hang out!!! adios



From what I've seen the good photographers mostly don't hang out on forums.  They get tired of the acid-spitting and have no use for the "back stroking".


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## manaheim

ChristopherCoy said:
			
		

> *SNORT!* LOL LOL LOL!! I think I love you Derrel.



I sort of question apple stealing xerox's idea an innovation, though. 

Btw.... Sony sucks.


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## amolitor

manaheim said:


> From what I've seen the good photographers mostly don't hang out on forums.  They get tired of the acid-spitting and have no use for the "back stroking".



To my annoyance, hitting the Like button over and over just turns my liking off and on. You should, however, imagine me going CLICKCLICKCLICKCLICK for quite some time.


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## manaheim

amolitor said:


> manaheim said:
> 
> 
> 
> From what I've seen the good photographers mostly don't hang out on forums.  They get tired of the acid-spitting and have no use for the "back stroking".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To my annoyance, hitting the Like button over and over just turns my liking off and on. You should, however, imagine me going CLICKCLICKCLICKCLICK for quite some time.
Click to expand...


  Well, we had to agree on something eventually.


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## amolitor

manaheim said:


> Well, we had to agree on something eventually.



Like stopped clocks in the night!


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## 2WheelPhoto

a thread full of win


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## aaronlecain

manaheim said:


> From what I've seen the good photographers mostly don't hang out on forums. They get tired of the acid-spitting and have no use for the "back stroking".



Needed to be said and well said.


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## rexbobcat

So like, why did you create a rather pointless controversial thread if you....didn't want controversy.

Sony this and Sony that is like Apple versus Windows. It's old hat and goes nowhere. And yet people still make the threads.


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## Ballistics

rexbobcat said:


> So like, why did you create a rather pointless controversial thread if you....didn't want controversy.
> 
> Sony this and Sony that is like Apple versus Windows. It's old hat and goes nowhere. And yet people still make the threads.



Bingo.


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## aaronlecain

If a thread like this gives an outlet for the "acid-spitting" so other threads can be productive than this thread has done what it was intended for.


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## Ballistics

aaronlecain said:


> If a thread like this gives an outlet for the "acid-spitting" so other threads can be productive than this thread has done what it was intended for.



Huh?


----------



## manaheim

rexbobcat said:


> So like, why did you create a rather pointless controversial thread if you....didn't want controversy.
> 
> Sony this and Sony that is like Apple versus Windows. It's old hat and goes nowhere. And yet people still make the threads.



My honest opinion is most people make the threads because they are hoping to have their bruised feelings eased.  They bought Sony and others are picking on the company that they are now necessarily in bed with.  They have to have affirmation that they are ok, so they hang a sign out and hope that they feel better in the end.


----------



## cosmonaut

Hate comes from insecurity, insecurity comes from low self esteem, low self esteem comes from lack of ability, lack of ability is caused by ignorance. I have noticed that the ones that trash talk Sony cameras are clueless about them anyway. I shoot what I like I don't own a camera because it makes me look like a pro.


----------



## mishele

Sony makes a camera?


----------



## Ballistics

What's the difference between insecurity and low self esteem?


----------



## cgipson1

cosmonaut said:


> Hate comes from insecurity, insecurity comes from low self esteem, low self esteem comes from lack of ability, lack of ability is caused by ignorance. I have noticed that the ones that trash talk Sony cameras are clueless about them anyway. I shoot what I like I don't own a camera because it makes me look like a pro.




Funniest thing I have read all day.... I have never been accused of being insecure, usually the opposite! lol! I have been accused of being anal about doing research, so I know my facts, though!


----------



## cosmonaut

Ballistics said:


> What's the difference between insecurity and low self esteem?



Emotional insecurity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Self-esteem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## cosmonaut

cgipson1 said:


> cosmonaut said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hate comes from insecurity, insecurity comes from low self esteem, low self esteem comes from lack of ability, lack of ability is caused by ignorance. I have noticed that the ones that trash talk Sony cameras are clueless about them anyway. I shoot what I like I don't own a camera because it makes me look like a pro.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funniest thing I have read all day.... I have never been accused of being insecure, usually the opposite! lol! I have been accused of being anal about doing research, so I know my facts, though!
Click to expand...


 I don't recall accusing you of anything. Funny you would make that assumption.


----------



## pixmedic

[h=1]&#8220;Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.&#8221;[/h]
-Master Yoda


----------



## Ballistics

cosmonaut said:


> Ballistics said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's the difference between insecurity and low self esteem?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emotional insecurity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Self-esteem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


Well that wasn't very informative lol. They are the same thing.


----------



## cgipson1

cosmonaut said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cosmonaut said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hate comes from insecurity, insecurity comes from low self esteem, low self esteem comes from lack of ability, lack of ability is caused by ignorance. I have noticed that the ones that trash talk Sony cameras are clueless about them anyway. I shoot what I like I don't own a camera because it makes me look like a pro.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funniest thing I have read all day.... I have never been accused of being insecure, usually the opposite! lol! I have been accused of being anal about doing research, so I know my facts, though!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I don't recall accusing you of anything. Funny you would make that assumption.
Click to expand...


I was just assuming that it was aimed at anyone who say's anything bad  about Sony, and since I am a vocal in my dislike of Sony.. that would  include me (even though it is not a true statement!) I don't HATE Sony..  I just strongly dislike them, and disapprove of their business methods!  And there is nothing in the cameras they make that would make anyone  the least bit insecure! Especially after using a Nikon or a Canon!

I really like that "Lack of ability" part!!! Have YOU ever made a living with a camera? Just curious!!


----------



## mishele

pixmedic said:


> *&#8220;Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.&#8221;*
> 
> 
> -Master Yoda


lol :heart:


----------



## Derrel

cosmonaut said:


> Hate comes from insecurity, insecurity comes from low self esteem, low self esteem comes from lack of ability, lack of ability is caused by ignorance. I have noticed that the ones that trash talk Sony cameras are clueless about them anyway. I shoot what I like I don't own a camera because it makes me look like a pro.



So, apparently we have a Sony buyer and user here who knows all about insecurity, low self esteem, lack of ability, and ignorance, and is trying to enlighten us...Huh... (wink].

All joking aside, I like skieur, and I know he enjoys his Sony products. I wonder how firmly committed Sony is to the d-slr body and lens business...they took HUGE losses on the A900 and the A800 full-frame cameras with 24.5 MP sensors, and TRIED, desperately tried, to "buy market share" by pricing those cameras $1,000 under the price of a Canon 5D FF, and $5,000 below the price of the Nikon D3x...and still suffered in the marketplace. Sony bought a third-rate (fifth rate??) failed company's camera and lens division when they bought the sinking ship that was Minolta...I see that they have not made much headway against the onslaught that is Canon and Nikon...

Maybe they ought to go back to what they know best, which in my own experience, is making Discman players that cost $50, made in Malaysia, and which break down after three weeks, for four units in a row, or taking months and months to try and re-build a failed computer network that hackers were able to tap into...I dunno...Sony has some serious corporate leadership issues, and a huge PR nightmare. Sony has a HUGE, huge, HUGE problem with their image, AND with their product matrix, and the way their divisions do NOT GET ALONG within the company as a whole. They have EARNED their bad reputation...

Sony needs to do what NIKON Corp. did--fire say, oh, 9 out of 10 of every aged, decrepit, deadwood executives, and REPLACE them ALL with YOUNGER execs--people who have a freaking clue about the world outside of Japan.


----------



## cgipson1

Derrel said:


> cosmonaut said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hate comes from insecurity, insecurity comes from low self esteem, low self esteem comes from lack of ability, lack of ability is caused by ignorance. I have noticed that the ones that trash talk Sony cameras are clueless about them anyway. I shoot what I like I don't own a camera because it makes me look like a pro.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, apparently we have a Sony buyer and user here who knows all about insecurity, low self esteem, lack of ability, and ignorance, and is trying to enlighten us...Huh... (wink].
> 
> All joking aside, I like skieur, and I know he enjoys his Sony products. I wonder how firmly committed Sony is to the d-slr body and lens business...they took HUGE losses on the A900 and the A800 full-frame cameras with 24.5 MP sensors, and TRIED, desperately tried, to "buy market share" by pricing those cameras $1,000 under the price of a Canon 5D FF, and $5,000 below the price of the Nikon D3x...and still suffered in the marketplace. Sony bought a third-rate (fifth rate??) failed company's camera and lens division when they bought the sinking ship that was Minolta...I see that they have not made much headway against the onslaught that is Canon and Nikon...
> 
> Maybe they ought to go back to what they know best, which in my own experience, is making Discman players that cost $50, made in Malaysia, and which break down after three weeks, for four units in a row, or taking months and months to try and re-build a failed computer network that hackers were able to tap into...I dunno...Sony has some serious corporate leadership issues, and a huge PR nightmare. Sony has a HUGE, huge, HUGE problem with their image, AND with their product matrix, and the way their divisions do NOT GET ALONG within the company as a whole. They have EARNED their bad reputation...
> 
> Sony needs to do what NIKON Corp. did--fire say, oh, 9 out of 10 of every aged, decrepit, deadwood executives, and REPLACE them ALL with YOUNGER execs--people who have a freaking clue about the world outside of Japan.
Click to expand...


Careful, Derrel.. you might be accused of having low self esteem or insecurities, resulting from a lack of ability!


----------



## MLeeK

It's simple. We just love hate and discontent around here. Or a good debate. But I like the Hate and Discontent option better.


----------



## cosmonaut

cgipson1 said:


> cosmonaut said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funniest thing I have read all day.... I have never been accused of being insecure, usually the opposite! lol! I have been accused of being anal about doing research, so I know my facts, though!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't recall accusing you of anything. Funny you would make that assumption.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was just assuming that it was aimed at anyone who say's anything bad  about Sony, and since I am a vocal in my dislike of Sony.. that would  include me (even though it is not a true statement!) I don't HATE Sony..  I just strongly dislike them, and disapprove of their business methods!  And there is nothing in the cameras they make that would make anyone  the least bit insecure! Especially after using a Nikon or a Canon!
> 
> I really like that "Lack of ability" part!!! Have YOU ever made a living with a camera? Just curious!!
Click to expand...


 Well I have dealt with Sony repair twice, both times I was treated very well and kept up to date with the status of my repair. One repair actually was covered under warranty and I had bought the camera used and from out of country. Companies change. I sounds like you got a raw deal some where down the road. I think you have the potential of scaring away customers. 
 I am just here to say I use Sony cameras and have been very impressed with them. Not everyone shares your views. I have read bad things about Nikon and Canon both but I don't troll their forums. I think I recall when Canons new flagship came out and many had water leaks around the viewfinders and Nikon shutters were bad about leaving oily residue on the sensor from time to time.


----------



## charlie76

cosmonaut said:
			
		

> but I don't troll their forums.



Wouldn't blame the forum users....the title of this thread is begging for trouble


----------



## cosmonaut

Derrel said:


> cosmonaut said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hate comes from insecurity, insecurity comes from low self esteem, low self esteem comes from lack of ability, lack of ability is caused by ignorance. I have noticed that the ones that trash talk Sony cameras are clueless about them anyway. I shoot what I like I don't own a camera because it makes me look like a pro.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, apparently we have a Sony buyer and user here who knows all about insecurity, low self esteem, lack of ability, and ignorance, and is trying to enlighten us...Huh... (wink].
> 
> All joking aside, I like skieur, and I know he enjoys his Sony products. I wonder how firmly committed Sony is to the d-slr body and lens business...they took HUGE losses on the A900 and the A800 full-frame cameras with 24.5 MP sensors, and TRIED, desperately tried, to "buy market share" by pricing those cameras $1,000 under the price of a Canon 5D FF, and $5,000 below the price of the Nikon D3x...and still suffered in the marketplace. Sony bought a third-rate (fifth rate??) failed company's camera and lens division when they bought the sinking ship that was Minolta...I see that they have not made much headway against the onslaught that is Canon and Nikon...
> 
> Maybe they ought to go back to what they know best, which in my own experience, is making Discman players that cost $50, made in Malaysia, and which break down after three weeks, for four units in a row, or taking months and months to try and re-build a failed computer network that hackers were able to tap into...I dunno...Sony has some serious corporate leadership issues, and a huge PR nightmare. Sony has a HUGE, huge, HUGE problem with their image, AND with their product matrix, and the way their divisions do NOT GET ALONG within the company as a whole. They have EARNED their bad reputation...
> 
> Sony needs to do what NIKON Corp. did--fire say, oh, 9 out of 10 of every aged, decrepit, deadwood executives, and REPLACE them ALL with YOUNGER execs--people who have a freaking clue about the world outside of Japan.
Click to expand...


Well you talked me into it. I am going to EBay with my gear and get a D800.


----------



## cosmonaut

Derrel said:


> cosmonaut said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hate comes from insecurity, insecurity comes from low self esteem, low self esteem comes from lack of ability, lack of ability is caused by ignorance. I have noticed that the ones that trash talk Sony cameras are clueless about them anyway. I shoot what I like I don't own a camera because it makes me look like a pro.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, apparently we have a Sony buyer and user here who knows all about insecurity, low self esteem, lack of ability, and ignorance, and is trying to enlighten us...Huh... (wink].
> 
> All joking aside, I like skieur, and I know he enjoys his Sony products. I wonder how firmly committed Sony is to the d-slr body and lens business...they took HUGE losses on the A900 and the A800 full-frame cameras with 24.5 MP sensors, and TRIED, desperately tried, to "buy market share" by pricing those cameras $1,000 under the price of a Canon 5D FF, and $5,000 below the price of the Nikon D3x...and still suffered in the marketplace. Sony bought a third-rate (fifth rate??) failed company's camera and lens division when they bought the sinking ship that was Minolta...I see that they have not made much headway against the onslaught that is Canon and Nikon...
> 
> Maybe they ought to go back to what they know best, which in my own experience, is making Discman players that cost $50, made in Malaysia, and which break down after three weeks, for four units in a row, or taking months and months to try and re-build a failed computer network that hackers were able to tap into...I dunno...Sony has some serious corporate leadership issues, and a huge PR nightmare. Sony has a HUGE, huge, HUGE problem with their image, AND with their product matrix, and the way their divisions do NOT GET ALONG within the company as a whole. They have EARNED their bad reputation...
> 
> Sony needs to do what NIKON Corp. did--fire say, oh, 9 out of 10 of every aged, decrepit, deadwood executives, and REPLACE them ALL with YOUNGER execs--people who have a freaking clue about the world outside of Japan.
Click to expand...



Watch what you say about old people. I am old people. There ain't nothing wrong with being old....


----------



## manaheim

cgipson1 said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cosmonaut said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hate comes from insecurity, insecurity comes from low self esteem, low self esteem comes from lack of ability, lack of ability is caused by ignorance. I have noticed that the ones that trash talk Sony cameras are clueless about them anyway. I shoot what I like I don't own a camera because it makes me look like a pro.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, apparently we have a Sony buyer and user here who knows all about insecurity, low self esteem, lack of ability, and ignorance, and is trying to enlighten us...Huh... (wink].
> 
> All joking aside, I like skieur, and I know he enjoys his Sony products. I wonder how firmly committed Sony is to the d-slr body and lens business...they took HUGE losses on the A900 and the A800 full-frame cameras with 24.5 MP sensors, and TRIED, desperately tried, to "buy market share" by pricing those cameras $1,000 under the price of a Canon 5D FF, and $5,000 below the price of the Nikon D3x...and still suffered in the marketplace. Sony bought a third-rate (fifth rate??) failed company's camera and lens division when they bought the sinking ship that was Minolta...I see that they have not made much headway against the onslaught that is Canon and Nikon...
> 
> Maybe they ought to go back to what they know best, which in my own experience, is making Discman players that cost $50, made in Malaysia, and which break down after three weeks, for four units in a row, or taking months and months to try and re-build a failed computer network that hackers were able to tap into...I dunno...Sony has some serious corporate leadership issues, and a huge PR nightmare. Sony has a HUGE, huge, HUGE problem with their image, AND with their product matrix, and the way their divisions do NOT GET ALONG within the company as a whole. They have EARNED their bad reputation...
> 
> Sony needs to do what NIKON Corp. did--fire say, oh, 9 out of 10 of every aged, decrepit, deadwood executives, and REPLACE them ALL with YOUNGER execs--people who have a freaking clue about the world outside of Japan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Careful, Derrel.. you might be accused of having low self esteem or insecurities, resulting from a lack of ability!
Click to expand...


Or just of smelling like mouldy cabbage.


----------



## MLeeK

cosmonaut said:


> Hate comes from insecurity, insecurity comes  from low self esteem, low self esteem comes from lack of ability, lack  of ability is caused by ignorance. I have noticed that the ones that  trash talk Sony cameras are clueless about them anyway. I shoot what I  like I don't own a camera because it makes me look like a pro.


That whole statement seems to be aimed at anyone here who disagrees with your point of view. It's incredibly small minded and offensive in general, let alone to those who have given you their very valid reasons complete with data to back it up.    
THAT is where you offended Charlie-and everyone else. You just said we all "hate" sony because we are insecure with low self esteem because we have a lack of ability. I am pretty sure most of use have more than proven our ability here. My 14 year old immature son knows better than to start slinging names like a first grader. You aren't winning the argument so you are going to have a childish temper tantrum and sling mud. 



cosmonaut said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cosmonaut said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't recall accusing you of anything. Funny you would make that assumption.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was just assuming that it was aimed at anyone who say's anything bad  about Sony, and since I am a vocal in my dislike of Sony.. that would  include me (even though it is not a true statement!) I don't HATE Sony..  I just strongly dislike them, and disapprove of their business methods!  And there is nothing in the cameras they make that would make anyone  the least bit insecure! Especially after using a Nikon or a Canon!
> 
> I really like that "Lack of ability" part!!! Have YOU ever made a living with a camera? Just curious!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well I have dealt with Sony repair twice, both times I was treated very well and kept up to date with the status of my repair. One repair actually was covered under warranty and I had bought the camera used and from out of country. Companies change. I sounds like you got a raw deal some where down the road. I think you have the potential of scaring away customers.
> I am just here to say I use Sony cameras and have been very impressed with them. Not everyone shares your views. I have read bad things about Nikon and Canon both but I don't troll their forums. I think I recall when Canons new flagship came out and many had water leaks around the viewfinders and Nikon shutters were bad about leaving oily residue on the sensor from time to time.
Click to expand...


I haven't a clue what dealing with Sony repair twice has to do with your statement that charlie-or WE in general-have a lack of ability. You sure evaded the question there.


----------



## manaheim

You can't _handle _the truth.


----------



## Ballistics

I really enjoy my sony playstation 3


----------



## cosmonaut

MLeeK said:


> cosmonaut said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hate comes from insecurity, insecurity comes  from low self esteem, low self esteem comes from lack of ability, lack  of ability is caused by ignorance. I have noticed that the ones that  trash talk Sony cameras are clueless about them anyway. I shoot what I  like I don't own a camera because it makes me look like a pro.
> 
> 
> 
> That whole statement seems to be aimed at anyone here who disagrees with your point of view. It's incredibly small minded and offensive in general, let alone to those who have given you their very valid reasons complete with data to back it up.
> THAT is where you offended Charlie-and everyone else. You just said we all "hate" sony because we are insecure with low self esteem because we have a lack of ability. I am pretty sure most of use have more than proven our ability here. My 14 year old immature son knows better than to start slinging names like a first grader. You aren't winning the argument so you are going to have a childish temper tantrum and sling mud.
> 
> 
> 
> cosmonaut said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was just assuming that it was aimed at anyone who say's anything bad  about Sony, and since I am a vocal in my dislike of Sony.. that would  include me (even though it is not a true statement!) I don't HATE Sony..  I just strongly dislike them, and disapprove of their business methods!  And there is nothing in the cameras they make that would make anyone  the least bit insecure! Especially after using a Nikon or a Canon!
> 
> I really like that "Lack of ability" part!!! Have YOU ever made a living with a camera? Just curious!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well I have dealt with Sony repair twice, both times I was treated very well and kept up to date with the status of my repair. One repair actually was covered under warranty and I had bought the camera used and from out of country. Companies change. I sounds like you got a raw deal some where down the road. I think you have the potential of scaring away customers.
> I am just here to say I use Sony cameras and have been very impressed with them. Not everyone shares your views. I have read bad things about Nikon and Canon both but I don't troll their forums. I think I recall when Canons new flagship came out and many had water leaks around the viewfinders and Nikon shutters were bad about leaving oily residue on the sensor from time to time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I haven't a clue what dealing with Sony repair twice has to do with your statement that charlie-or WE in general-have a lack of ability. You sure evaded the question there.
Click to expand...


 You are reading to much into a statement that was intended to be light hearted and fun and I never once specifically aimed my statement at anyone. But you do need to ask yourself if you don't use Sony why are you here?


----------



## Derrel

Sony corporate leadership has openly discussed the company's internal issues and the lack of cooperation between the divisions with Western media! I read an interesting article about Sony's internal struggles. The have gone VERY public about their inter-divisional strife and petty jealousies. The biggest problem ,some say, is the Japanese cultural idea of lifetime employment and loyalty to one's very OWN DIVISIONAL leaders at the expense of what might be best for the company as a whole. Much of Sony's leadership is old-school, and this is a MODERN world, and CHINA and KOREA both have very capable companies that are now formidable competitors. Japan's longstanding disdain of Korean and China has blinded them to the power of better-managed companies, like SAMSUNG, for just one example. Sony did well in a pre-Korea, pre-Chinese electronics market, but their day seems DONE to me. 

"Every dog has his day."


----------



## MLeeK

You asked the why we "hated" sony... I am pretty sure that you weren't expecting ONLY Sony users to answer that. That would be really bad-all those sony users talking about how much they hate their cameras. 

So... those of us who don't care for sony for whatever reasons answered. AND mine was pretty damn neutral to boot. 


MLeeK said:


> I have nothing against Sony, per se. I just choose  Canon. If I were starting all over again I'd probably choose Nikon. Sony  isn't in the running for me. That doesn't mean they make crap or that  they do. It seems to me that they are really taking huge leaps and  bounds. From what I see they are producing some awesome cameras.


----------



## charlie76

cosmonaut said:
			
		

> .... if you don't use Sony why are you here?



Do you Sony guys always start threads just so you can whine and feel bad for yourselves?  This thread is directed at non-Sony users....so here we are.  If you don't like criticism...don't ask for it.  Obvious to me, at least.


----------



## Derrel

charlie76 said:


> cosmonaut said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .... if you don't use Sony why are you here?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you Sony guys always start threads just so you can whine and feel bad for yourselves?  This thread is directed at non-Sony users....so here we are.  If you don't like criticism...don't ask for it.  Obvious to me, at least.
Click to expand...


Dude--don't bring *logic or reason* into this debate...this is a SONY thread!!!


----------



## manaheim

I'm gonna post a thread asking everyone why they hate Canon.

I mean, I'd do it for Nikon, but it would be such a crazy love fest towards Nikon and everyone would run me out of town for even SUGGESTING that anyone could hate such a god-like and wondrous company, so I figure going the Canon route would make more sense.


----------



## cosmonaut

Derrel said:


> Sony corporate leadership has openly discussed the company's internal issues and the lack of cooperation between the divisions with Western media! I read an interesting article about Sony's internal struggles. The have gone VERY public about their inter-divisional strife and petty jealousies. The biggest problem ,some say, is the Japanese cultural idea of lifetime employment and loyalty to one's very OWN DIVISIONAL leaders at the expense of what might be best for the company as a whole. Much of Sony's leadership is old-school, and this is a MODERN world, and CHINA and KOREA both have very capable companies that are now formidable competitors. Japan's longstanding disdain of Korean and China has blinded them to the power of better-managed companies, like SAMSUNG, for just one example. Sony did well in a pre-Korea, pre-Chinese electronics market, but their day seems DONE to me.
> 
> "Every dog has his day."



Well the new OMD E-M5 has a new Sony sensor in it and the improvement in Olympus cameras took a jump in image quality. With the a77, NEX7 it seems to me they are doing plenty right. I am not a Sony fan boy as I do have the E-M5 and also a D800E on preorder and maybe I will get one before I die. But it has been on back order for more than two months. Which I think is bad business by itself.


----------



## charlie76

manaheim said:
			
		

> crazy love fest .... everyone would run me out of town





wicked funny!


----------



## cosmonaut

charlie76 said:


> cosmonaut said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .... if you don't use Sony why are you here?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you Sony guys always start threads just so you can whine and feel bad for yourselves?  This thread is directed at non-Sony users....so here we are.  If you don't like criticism...don't ask for it.  Obvious to me, at least.
Click to expand...


 I didn't ask you why you hated Sony but why are you here? I am not the OP.


----------



## cosmonaut

Going back and reading all of the post again there is really almost nothing bad or negative posted about Sony cameras but their other products. I guess I will never own a Canon DSLR because I get such bad service out of my Canon printer.


----------



## cosmonaut

2010 Camera of the Year: Sony A55 | Popular Photography
Popular Photography 2011 Camera of the Year: Sony NEX-7 | Popular Photography

 I don't see how anyone can say Sony is DONE.


----------



## Ballistics

cosmonaut said:


> 2010 Camera of the Year: Sony A55 | Popular Photography
> Popular Photography 2011 Camera of the Year: Sony NEX-7 | Popular Photography
> 
> I don't see how anyone can say Sony is DONE.



Who said they were done?


----------



## Derrel

I implied that their run as the "leader" is DONE. Samsung is now kicking Sony's A$$. Sony does not have a SINGLE, class-leading product in any electronics category. Not one. They lead now in...NOTHING....not game consoles, not TV's,not stereos,not personal music players, computers, NOTHING...this according to the article I referenced above.

As the leader in consumer electronics--SONY Corp. is done

As I wrote, "Every dog has his day." At one time, Eastman Kodak was America's largest non-defense industry,non-military,non-government employer. NOW...*Kodak is bankrupt.*.. Chapter 11 baby! Kodak went from THE leader,worldwide, to +!+s-up...


----------



## PhotoWrangler

Look, here is the whole deal in a nutshell.

Showing up to a photo shoot with a Sony, is like showing up to a drag race in a Fiat. Will you get to the end of the track, sure - but not nearly as fast, or as hot as the Vette that just smoked you.


----------



## Derrel

cosmonaut said:


> 2010 Camera of the Year: Sony A55 | Popular Photography
> Popular Photography 2011 Camera of the Year: Sony NEX-7 | Popular Photography
> 
> I don't see how anyone can say Sony is DONE.



B_L_E_A_K outlook...bleeding money... RECORD LOSSES, quarter after quarter...Heck, even The Titanic was afloat...until the second it sunk...

Sony Corporation News - The New York Times

To START: "*2012 Earnings: Second Quarter*Pummeled by the weak global economy, exchange rate shifts and the euro zone crisis, Sony reported a 77 percent slide in operating profit for the quarter that ended in June 2012.
Sony said in early August that operating profit for the second quarter had fallen to ¥6.28 billion, or $80 million, compared with a year earlier, much worse than the 36 percent decrease analysts had expected. For the financial year that ended March 31, Sony posted an operating loss of ¥67 billion and a record net loss of ¥455 billion."

And it gets WORSE...read the entire article..that's why I said they are DONE.


----------



## unpopular

You do realize that Sony has ¥17 trillion in assets, right? They still have a LONG way to fall before hitting bottom.


----------



## cgipson1

Ballistics said:


> I really enjoy my sony playstation 3



Did you like the reaming that you and all other PS3 owners took... when Sony started taking away features? I know that you personally may not have been using those features... but MANY PS3 owners were, and felt screwed when Sony did that. I am sure you are aware of that controversy, YES? Or if you used their gaming network... and they got hacked because of a lack of decent security.. did that make you feel secure? (or maybe you didn't use the network?) 

It is a good gaming platform... but there have been many issues, surely you can't deny that?


----------



## cgipson1

cosmonaut said:


> 2010 Camera of the Year: Sony A55 | Popular Photography
> Popular Photography 2011 Camera of the Year: Sony NEX-7 | Popular Photography
> 
> I don't see how anyone can say Sony is DONE.



Popular Photography???? IF you pay big bucks for advertising, they won't say a bad thing about you.. even if they should!   It is hardly a reliable source!  lol!


----------



## rexbobcat

cgipson1 said:
			
		

> Did you like the reaming that you and all other PS3 owners took... when Sony started taking away features? I know that you personally may not have been using those features... but MANY PS3 owners were, and felt screwed when Sony did that. I am sure you are aware of that controversy, YES? Or if you used their gaming network... and they got hacked because of a lack of decent security.. did that make you feel secure? (or maybe you didn't use the network?)
> 
> It is a good gaming platform... but there have been many issues, surely you can't deny that?



Yeah i heard about that. But I do enjoy not having to pay just to access their network. That completely turned me off from Xbox.

The PS3 just seems more useable.


----------



## cgipson1

rexbobcat said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you like the reaming that you and all other PS3 owners took... when Sony started taking away features? I know that you personally may not have been using those features... but MANY PS3 owners were, and felt screwed when Sony did that. I am sure you are aware of that controversy, YES? Or if you used their gaming network... and they got hacked because of a lack of decent security.. did that make you feel secure? (or maybe you didn't use the network?)
> 
> It is a good gaming platform... but there have been many issues, surely you can't deny that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah i heard about that. But I do enjoy not having to pay just to access their network. That completely turned me off from Xbox.
> 
> The PS3 just seems more useable.
Click to expand...


I prefer my home built gaming PC... I hate gaming console controls!  lol!


----------



## unpopular

^^ lol. i use a PS3 controller on my computer.


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## Derrel

unpopular said:


> You do realize that Sony has ¥17 trillion in assets, right? They still have a LONG way to fall before hitting bottom.



You do realize The Titanic was considered "unsinkable", right?

You do realize Kodak was the largest employer in the USA, and DOMINATED the entire WORLD's imaging business, right?

Oh,how the mighty have fallen. Who said that? The bigger they are, the harder they fall. Oops, there's another unpleasant reminder....dang it! Record quarterly loss of 455 billion yen in ninety days...man, Sony is kicking a$$!


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## PhotoWrangler

I'm sorry... I have to roll on the floor laughing  a little bit.

They are having a Sony vs Canon war over on Fred Miranda. There are some who are comparing the 5D2 to the mirrorless Nex crap. BWAHAHAHAHAH!!!!  Those aren't even in the same category.


----------



## cosmonaut

Ballistics said:


> cosmonaut said:
> 
> 
> 
> 2010 Camera of the Year: Sony A55 | Popular Photography
> Popular Photography 2011 Camera of the Year: Sony NEX-7 | Popular Photography
> 
> I don't see how anyone can say Sony is DONE.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who said they were done?
Click to expand...


 Darrel did in post #73.


----------



## cosmonaut

Derrel said:


> unpopular said:
> 
> 
> 
> You do realize that Sony has ¥17 trillion in assets, right? They still have a LONG way to fall before hitting bottom.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You do realize The Titanic was considered "unsinkable", right?
> 
> You do realize Kodak was the largest employer in the USA, and DOMINATED the entire WORLD's imaging business, right?
> 
> Oh,how the mighty have fallen. Who said that? The bigger they are, the harder they fall. Oops, there's another unpleasant reminder....dang it! Record quarterly loss of 455 billion yen in ninety days...man, Sony is kicking a$$!
Click to expand...


 I think most every company is struggling. Look what happen to Olympus and look now, they have the best mirrorless offering on the market. I am not going to buy Nikon or Canons pitiful compact system because their corporate heads are younger and can drink tea together.


----------



## manaheim

cosmonaut said:
			
		

> Going back and reading all of the post again there is really almost nothing bad or negative posted about Sony cameras but their other products. I guess I will never own a Canon DSLR because I get such bad service out of my Canon printer.



Samsung makes great TVs... So certainly I should buy one of their refrigerators and assume that will be wonderful, right?

Companies don't always do as well in every category as they do in one, but you shouldn't assume they will do as poorly either.

What everyone here has said is basically that Sonys cameras may be the exception to their quality concerns rule.

Really, though... Derrell has nailed it and articulated it far better than I could.  If you're still going to make these kind of arguments in the face of his, there's little point in anyone else saying anything.  You are blind to reality.


----------



## cosmonaut

I don't understand why sarcasm is taken so literal around here. The real truth is I used an E5 and the opportunity came along for me to go full frame with almost an equal swap. The a850 fits my needs because I don't like complicated cameras. Plus it has in body image stabilization and Nikon and Canon IS is in the lens which drives the price up with every lens purchased. I shoot 90% manual and the other 10% aperture priority. It is as close to shooting film and still be digital short of a Leica M8/9. 
I have the 24-70mm and 70-300mm G lenses and am constantly amazed at how sharp they are.
 I have a D800E on pre order and have been reading how the camera has to be set up properly to use it. If it is something I am constantly going to have to fiddle with to use it I probably will sell it. I am mostly going to use it for landscape shooting and keep the a850s for my portrait shooting.
 I have not personally attacked anyone here and if you can't take a little off the cuff sarcasm I feel sorry for you. But it has been said most serious photographers don't have time for this sort of endless he said she said. Shoot what suits your needs and don't try to convince someone their cameras are trash when you really don't have a clue if a Sony camera is good or bad because you probably have never owned one.


----------



## pixmedic

what does it matter which camera  you shoot with if the end result is good photos?  People still take great photos with OLD film cameras. 
shoot what you like shooting, and be judged by the photograph you produce, NOT the camera you used to shoot it.


----------



## rexbobcat

pixmedic said:
			
		

> what does it matter which camera  you shoot with if the end result is good photos?  People still take great photos with OLD film cameras.
> shoot what you like shooting, and be judged by the photograph you produce, NOT the camera you used to shoot it.



You must be new here.


----------



## Derrel

cosmonaut said:
			
		

> >SNIP>I think most every company is struggling. Look what happen to Olympus and look now, they have the best mirrorless offering on the market. I am not going to buy Nikon or Canons pitiful compact system because their corporate heads are younger and can drink tea together.



I am NOT very impressed by Nikon's new mirrrorless compact system models. I think it's unfair of you to call it pitiful however...the proper word is "pathetic", or perhaps more plainly, "effed up". Not pitiful. I mean, who knew their compact design team had a crack addiction? If Nikon had figured out that the CONTROL system of the camera needs to be awesome, I would already own one. Instead, I read the reviews, then went to Target, and looked at one, and I was like...man...this thing SUX!!!!!!!!! I'm not going to be able to use this damned thing! Sorry, no sale.


----------



## pixmedic

rexbobcat said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what does it matter which camera  you shoot with if the end result is good photos?  People still take great photos with OLD film cameras.
> shoot what you like shooting, and be judged by the photograph you produce, NOT the camera you used to shoot it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You must be new here.
Click to expand...


yea, its only my second day. sorry, I'll catch on eventually.


----------



## MLeeK

ChristopherCoy said:


> I'm sorry... I have to roll on the floor laughing  a little bit.
> 
> They are having a Sony vs Canon war over on Fred Miranda. There are some who are comparing the 5D2 to the mirrorless Nex crap. BWAHAHAHAHAH!!!!  Those aren't even in the same category.


Well, if you ask me the 5d2 compares to the mirrorless Nex crap. I love to hate mine.


----------



## manaheim

Amigas  rule.


----------



## unpopular

Derrel said:


> unpopular said:
> 
> 
> 
> You do realize that Sony has ¥17 trillion in assets, right? They still have a LONG way to fall before hitting bottom.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You do realize The Titanic was considered "unsinkable", right?
Click to expand...


I never, ever said that Sony was unsinkable. But to put this into perspective Sony would need to have more than 5 straight years of record losses to suck up all it's assets. I just don't really see that happening. Maybe someday, but you'll be off to a retirement home before that happens, old man.


----------



## pixmedic

unpopular said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> unpopular said:
> 
> 
> 
> You do realize that Sony has ¥17 trillion in assets, right? They still have a LONG way to fall before hitting bottom.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You do realize The Titanic was considered "unsinkable", right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I never, ever said that Sony was unsinkable. But to put this into perspective Sony would need to have more than 5 straight years of record losses to suck up all it's assets. I just don't really see that happening. Maybe someday, but you'll be off to a retirement home before that happens, old man.
Click to expand...


maybe he was implying that SONY will hit an iceberg.


----------



## unpopular

What would that be, Halo 4?


----------



## MLeeK

Yet another post that just keeps on giving... and giving... and...


----------



## pixmedic

MLeeK said:


> Yet another post that just keeps on giving... and giving... and...



any thread that makes it 11 pages must be worth SOMETHING!


----------



## PhotoWrangler

pixmedic said:


> any thread that makes it 11 pages must be worth SOMETHING!




Yeah... and ex-lax and a cookie.


----------



## manaheim

My fingers smell funny.


----------



## unpopular

^^ this isn't the 50 shades thread, mana


----------



## manaheim

unpopular said:


> ^^ this isn't the 50 shades thread, mana



Oh.  It's not?  Crap, I need to read more carefully.


----------



## o hey tyler

Big Black Delta knows why Sony is hated by many.


----------



## unpopular

^^^HIPSTER ATTACK!


must.resist.instagram...


----------



## Derrel

o hey tyler said:


> Big Black Delta knows why Sony is hated by many.



Sting called...he wants his totally incomprehensible singing style back!!! YAWB...yet another whiny band... [wink,wink,nudge,nudge]


----------



## o hey tyler

unpopular said:
			
		

> ^^^HIPSTER ATTACK!
> 
> must.resist.instagram...



BBD isn't exactly hipster. However, Sony users are.


----------



## Derrel

o hey tyler said:


> unpopular said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^^^HIPSTER ATTACK!
> 
> must.resist.instagram...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BBD isn't exactly hipster. However, Sony users are.
Click to expand...


Speaking of SONY users BEING HIPSTERs...Thom Hogan's column TODAY (Aug. 13,2012) *describes SONY users as being HIPSTERS!*!!!!! For real!

Thom Hogan's Nikon Camera, DSLR, Lens, Flash, and Book site

As Thom writes: "Right now, Sony Alpha fans tend to be younger and want to project some sort of hipness. How is this manifested in the product? Sony is pushing the new tech angle (even if some of it is old, it's new to DSLRs): pellicle mirrors, EVFs instead of optical viewfinders, GPS, industry leading megapixels, AVCHD 2, and more. It's a bit of the kitchen sink philosophy, but it's the latest and greatest technical kitchen sink. You're hip to the future if you're shooting a Sony Alpha. Plus 24mp is perfect for those Facebook photos."


----------



## unpopular

o hey tyler said:


> unpopular said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^^^HIPSTER ATTACK!
> 
> must.resist.instagram...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BBD isn't exactly hipster. However, Sony users are.
Click to expand...


No. Anything with this kind of new wave revival sound is hipster.

As far Sony users being hipster, no, unless it's a boom box from 1983.


----------



## o hey tyler

Derrel said:
			
		

> Sting called...he wants his totally incomprehensible singing style back!!! YAWB...yet another whiny band...



Bubbles from the trailer park boys called, he wants his glasses back.


----------



## o hey tyler

unpopular said:
			
		

> No. Anything with this kind of new wave revival sound is hipster.



And you are unpopular, therefore you must be a hipster as well? Or you an anti-sub-non-conformist?


----------



## unpopular

(though this Casio is as hipster as it gets)






(http://www.pocketcalculatorshow.com/boombox/golden6.html)


----------



## unpopular

o hey tyler said:


> unpopular said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No. Anything with this kind of new wave revival sound is hipster.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you are unpopular, therefore you must be a hipster as well? Or you an anti-sub-non-conformist?
Click to expand...


I was listening to new wave before it was cool to listen to new wave.

oh wait...


----------



## o hey tyler

unpopular said:
			
		

> I was listening to new wave before it was cool to listen to new wave.
> 
> oh wait...



Hipster!!!!


----------



## unpopular

trust me. i'm not a hipster.

I just shoot all primes, many of which are vintage.
brew my own beer.
have a beard.
listen to new wave.
own a volvo from when they were still boxy.
shop exclusively at goodwill.
still use vinyl records.
wear vintage Lee and Wrangler jeans.
i never brush my hair, just fuss with it in the mirror with my fingers.
i've been looking for a DVD of Drawing Restrain 9 (pretty sure it doesn't exist)
I actually really like Foster the People, even if I'd never admit it

however, i'm not from new york city, nor have much of an interest in visiting ... and that should count for something, right? plus i have like no friends, and I like it that way... can you even be a hipster without being a scenester?


----------



## o hey tyler

unpopular said:
			
		

> trust me. i'm not a hipster.
> 
> I just shoot all primes, many of which are vintage.
> brew my own beer.
> have a beard.
> listen to new wave.
> own a volvo from when they were still boxy.
> shop exclusively at goodwill.
> still use vinyl records.
> wear vintage Lee and Wrangler jeans.
> i never brush my hair, just fuss with it in the mirror with my fingers.
> i've been looking for a DVD of Drawing Restrain 9 (pretty sure it doesn't exist)
> I actually really like Foster the People, even if I'd never admit it
> 
> however, i'm not from new york city, nor have much of an interest in visiting ... and that should count for something, right? plus i have like no friends, and I like it that way... can you even be a hipster without being a scenester?



As long as you realize that all of the previous qualifications allow you to be on the deans list of Hipster University, then yes you can be a hipster without being a scenester.


----------



## Derrel

"...You stupid hipster dufus!!!!!!"

Seinfeld S5E03 &#39;The Glasses&#39; - You stupid hipster dufus! - YouTube


----------



## Tee

All this hipster talk...I was just saying to my building super how I live in the Melrose Place of hipster.  Boy names like Liam wearing skinny jeans, white t-shirts with a twead scarf and some sort of throwback hat, 3 day stubble and carrying a fair trade organic coffee in one hand and an old tote holding their Macbook Pro, a couple Kashi bars and some pretentious book they found at a thrift store.  Oh, and their vintage Schwinn beach bike is locked up with all the other vintage Schwinn's.  I will admit that I find myself whistling to Foster the People.


----------



## unpopular

Has anyone read the wiki entry on Hipster? The analysis section is HILARIOUS.

Hipster (contemporary subculture) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But honestly, if hipsters bring back "good" into popular music, I'm ok with that. Let's just hope the miller light boozing, haulter top wearing, dub step listening, bath salt addicted jackasses don't get any more popular than they are already.


----------



## rexbobcat

unpopular said:
			
		

> Has anyone read the wiki entry on Hipster? The analysis section is HILARIOUS.
> 
> Hipster (contemporary subculture) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> But honestly, if hipsters bring back "good" into popular music, I'm ok with that. Let's just hope the miller light boozing, haulter top wearing, dub step listening, bath salt addicted jackasses don't get any more popular than they are already.



I think you meant Pabst Blue Ribbon.


----------



## unpopular

^^^ bwahahahahahahahaaa

how much i HATE skrillex!!!!


----------



## kassad

charlie76 said:


> aaronlecain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This entire thread is making me think I need to find another Photography forum. Members attacking members. This isn't what I got into Photography. I enjoyed talking to like minded people that enjoyed photography together. Good luck to you all.
> 
> Don't Feed The Trolls.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> um.....where's the forum where everyone strokes each others back?  Oh..that's where the good photographers hang out!!! adios
Click to expand...


dyxum.com


----------

