# First Session Haunting



## Hrgrace21 (Dec 5, 2013)

Hello everyone, I recently started my own business after taking photography courses and some practice. I admittingly should have waited a bit longer to get a larger portfolio...However, I jumped head first and booked my first newborn session. The session went a bit rocky with a cranky newborn and some miscommunication with the clients on pricing. Because I was new I told her I would come set up in her home and do a full session for free, the only thing she had to pay for were the prints, not intending on selling the digitals. She nit picked the crap out of the images and really broke me down on the image review meeting, then only wanted the digitals anyway. I ended up giving her select images for free just to be done with her interaction. Anyone else have something similar when they first started out? Does it get better as time goes? Thanks for the support.


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## vintagesnaps (Dec 5, 2013)

Photography courses and some practice - for how long? I think you said it yourself - probably "should have waited a bit longer". If you want to develop a good reputation as a photographer your skills need to be developed to the point that you can take on challenges like a session with a newborn if you're going to do family portraits. You don't want to put yourself in situations where you have to refund money, redo sessions, etc.  

Part of it too is getting not only your pricing determined but contracts, releases, etc. etc.  American Society of Media Photographers is one organization that has resources for professional photographers.


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## tirediron (Dec 5, 2013)

Sounds like a valuable (and inexpensive) lesson was learned.


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## Hrgrace21 (Dec 5, 2013)

I waited and practiced for a short 6 months before booking this session. When she decided to book the baby was already a month old, so he wasn't as sleepy as I would have liked. We didn't get the iconic sleeping newborn shots like she wanted, however I was happy with they way most of them turned out, she was not...how do I keep my client's expectations reasonable? I do not promise any particular pose and say "we will see what the baby will let us do". 

 

I now have a package set up where everything is included (prints and session) with the option of an a-la-cart menu ordering. So far I have only had one other client order additional prints. Any additional tips you guys can give me?


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## Hrgrace21 (Dec 5, 2013)

Thanks VintageSnaps for the link!


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## Steve5D (Dec 5, 2013)

Hrgrace21 said:


> how do I keep my client's expectations reasonable?



Tell them "Well, this is one ugly baby and, trust me, I've seen a lot of babies. But this one is ugly. _Really _ugly. And it's got a pointed head. And it smells bad. I'll do what I can, but no promises...


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## pixmedic (Dec 5, 2013)

you manage expectations with a written contract, signed by the clients. 
you explain every aspect of the contract until they understand exactly what each part means. 
you explain what you expect them to pay, what they should expect you to deliver and when they should expect you to deliver it.

the clients not wanting prints should not have negated your getting paid. 
you should have had a price worked out for digital files.


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## amolitor (Dec 5, 2013)

You need to get better at taking pictures of babies, not to put too fine of a point on it. The picture is soft, unflattering, and poorly framed. The kid sure isn't helping any, but bad skin happens on little babies, and you got to deal with it. Pretty heavy post is the standard here, which is arguably too bad, but there it is.


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## robbins.photo (Dec 5, 2013)

Hrgrace21 said:


> Hello everyone, I recently started my own business after taking photography courses and some practice. I admittingly should have waited a bit longer to get a larger portfolio...However, I jumped head first and booked my first newborn session. The session went a bit rocky with a cranky newborn and some miscommunication with the clients on pricing. Because I was new I told her I would come set up in her home and do a full session for free, the only thing she had to pay for were the prints, not intending on selling the digitals. She nit picked the crap out of the images and really broke me down on the image review meeting, then only wanted the digitals anyway. I ended up giving her select images for free just to be done with her interaction. Anyone else have something similar when they first started out? Does it get better as time goes? Thanks for the support.



Ok.. let me see here.. whats the word I'm searching for here.. umm.... oh ya, now I remember:

CONTRACT

Ok, I am not a pro and I have no desire to be a pro but if you every do another shoot again without a contract then you deserve everything you get.  Spell out everything in advance and get them to sign.  Otherwise just tell them you'll be more than happy to come over, take all the pictures they want, give them everything for free including the prints which you'll pay for out of your own pocket, plus you'll be more than happy to do both the dishes and the windows as well before you leave.

Ok - second, do this right and get a DBA and some insurance.  If not your just begging  for trouble of a different variety.  There are very good reasons why I never turned pro, never wanted to turn pro, would never consider turning pro... lol


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## deeky (Dec 5, 2013)

Not a professional, never been paid, so I'm no help on your question.  Just excited to see someone from South Dakota on here.  Where abouts in South Dakota?


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## KmH (Dec 5, 2013)

the f stops here: how to attract terrible clients

http://www.amantofish.com/2011/02/10/photography-is-a-luxury/

Did the photography course also include business, marketing, and salesmanship training?
Hopefully, you have a written business/marketing/promotional plan that defines your target market.

It helps if you have 3 packages.
Package #1 is the bare minimum and few customers will want it. (you hope customers that buy this package will not be returning).
Package #2 contains what most customers will buy, and is priced so your business can stay in business
Package #3 is a big profit for the business, top-of-the-line luxury package that only 15% of your customers will want to buy, mainly so they can brag they bought the top-of-the-line luxury package.

You know your prices are right when 1/3 of your customers complain your prices are to high.

It costs the business 10 times more to make a new customer, than it does to get a customer to return again.
Consequently raising prices usually means abandoning whatever customer base you currently have.
15% of the people in the USA control 85% of the money. You want as many clients from that 15% as possible.


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## Hrgrace21 (Dec 9, 2013)

deeky said:


> Not a professional, never been paid, so I'm no help on your question.  Just excited to see someone from South Dakota on here.  Where abouts in South Dakota?



Im in the Black Hills


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## Hrgrace21 (Dec 9, 2013)

KmH said:


> the f stops here: how to attract terrible clients
> 
> ?a Man to Fish? ? Photography is a luxury?
> 
> ...



Yes it did and I also have a degree in Advertising which includes sales I just had really bad planning on this one. I did have her sign a contract that stated I had rights to the photos, the $100 sitting fee was waived, and that if she wanted prints she was to pay for those at my price (had the price sheet). Her plans included wanting announcements printed which she originally was going to order from me but then changed her mind when she saw my prices, then wanted digital prints. When I gave her the price sheet she noted the price of the DVD and wanted only select pictures for less than my listed price. I was not prepared to negotiate my prices...anything I can do to prepare for that next time? Since then I have only done shoots that included prints in a package but have found that my clients are wanting more of a selection and not wanting to order a la cart. I am liking your 3 package set up thank you for the advice!


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## Hrgrace21 (Dec 9, 2013)

amolitor said:


> You need to get better at taking pictures of babies, not to put too fine of a point on it. The picture is soft, unflattering, and poorly framed. The kid sure isn't helping any, but bad skin happens on little babies, and you got to deal with it. Pretty heavy post is the standard here, which is arguably too bad, but there it is.



hmm...I see your point here, however when you say "pretty heavy post" are you taking all of the natural aspects of the baby out of your photos? As a mother I cherish all the pictures of my son with his cord and baby acne...do I need to be looking past my own preferences here, when the mother doesnt specify (I ask during the session what she would like edited)? I did a few heavy post production edits with this baby and he started looking "china doll-ish" was I just going too far? As far as the crop, in order to fit the original photo into this layout I agree isn't ideal.


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## Stevepwns (Dec 9, 2013)

Hrgrace21 said:


> Yes it did and I also have a degree in Advertising which includes sales I just had really bad planning on this one. I did have her sign a contract that stated I had rights to the photos, the $100 sitting fee was waived, and that if she wanted prints she was to pay for those at my price (had the price sheet). Her plans included wanting announcements printed which she originally was going to order from me but then changed her mind when she saw my prices, then wanted digital prints. When I gave her the price sheet she noted the price of the DVD and wanted only select pictures for less than my listed price. I was not prepared to negotiate my prices...anything I can do to prepare for that next time? Since then I have only done shoots that included prints in a package but have found that my clients are wanting more of a selection and not wanting to order a la cart. I am liking your 3 package set up thank you for the advice!




I hate to put this to you, but it sounds like that woman pushed you around like a child. You seem to have been to eager to get the job and just agreed to everything. She got everything for free. While insulting you at the same time.

My advice:   

You price is your price.  Don't negotiate.  If they want it, they will buy it. If they didn't have the money you would not be there to begin with.   By agreeing to work for less money, you are agreeing with the client that you aren't worth what you charge.  Get the contract signed after explaining everything in full.  Make them repeat some of it if you don't think they understand, ask them to ask questions.  Once you give the client power to nit pick your package's, they own you.  Tell them what you provide, and let them decide whether they want it or not.  It sounds hard and like I am telling you to be an *******, but in reality, if you aren't going to stick to your own contract or agreement, how can you expect them to stick to it either.  Part of being a businessman requires you sticking to your guns.  After you get some experience and learn how to control the situation then you can negotiate if you feel if it is right.  I am not a pro photographer, but I have dealt in customer service in 3 different professions over 17 years and used the same technique in all of them with success.  Dont be a prick, but stick to your guns. 

    good luck in the future.


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## vintagesnaps (Dec 9, 2013)

I think it's going to take probably more than six months to be good enough to be able to produce professional results on a consistent basis. This photo to me doesn't seem like a professional quality portrait; I don't think I'd expect to be able to charge for this one. I think it might be worth getting in more practice and skill development etc. to be able to develop a successful photography business.


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