# D5 or D4S......



## OnTheFly7 (Apr 11, 2017)

I was sold on the D5, the better half not so much ($$$$$$$).

In any case, it looks as though I will be shooting more low light sporting events (outdoors and indoor arenas) in 2017.  Thus, I was telling myself that for the minor price difference between the two, the D5 was a no brainer.  The incredible ISO performance was the main attraction for me, along with the improved auto-focus system.

Then.......

Today I happened by the local camera shop and began chatting with the folks.  One gentleman said follow me.  Goes in the glass case and pulls out a used D4S.  Nope.  Not for me.  I do not want used.  Then he pulls it out of the box.  This thing is like brand new.  No scratches, nicks, dings, all of the original paperwork, box, etc.  The only thing I am not certain of is the cycle count.  The price, lets just say it is less than half of a D5.

So, I ask for those who have used these two bodies; given the price of the D4S, is the D5 that much better in real world ISO and focusing (when it comes to sports, especially low light, fast action)?

I think I know what I am thinking, but the better half may not be too happy!


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## goodguy (Apr 12, 2017)

Glad I am not in your shoes, I am a NEW model junky, gotta have the latest and bestes, not because I need it but because I want it.
Less then half ?
I think you know what you need to do as long as the D4S doesn't have high mileage but at the end of the day its really up to you.


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## astroNikon (Apr 12, 2017)

That's a lot of HALF $$$$ to help you decide.


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## Derrel (Apr 12, 2017)

Buying a flagship Nikon that is one-generation behind is smart when you get a good deal. BONUS points if the unit is low-mileage! I've done it a a few times, with the D1 and the D1h and the D3x, and the savings are BIG when you get a good deal. I have not used the D5, so I have no idea how much better it is than the 51-point AF, but my experience has been that the flagship-lvel Nikons have really good AF modules, and also have a powerful CPU that runs the camera functions and focusing; according to Thom Hogan, it is the CPU's speed and bandwidth that is one of the hallmark advantages of the true flasgship Nikons, over the lesser bodies.

It is hard to advise people...depends what you really NEED, and also, what it is that you want to get out of the camera. There are a number of good, used Nikon bodies around....D800 for $1,295 to $1600; D700 for $575; D750 for $1400-$1500, and so on and so on. (prices from my local area pro shop  ProPhoto Supply dot com.


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## DarkShadow (Apr 12, 2017)

Lemme do a horoscope reading for you free of charge.Its coming to me,I see it,I see a D4S in your near future.


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## Dave442 (Apr 12, 2017)

I've been happy with used bodies. I think the higher shutter count versions of the D4s are easily selling under half the price of a new D5 - and many of these pro bodies come with high a high shutter count. My two used bodies came in at 10k and 30k shutter count and a they are still going strong getting close to 100k. 

If you were already planning the D5 and new then that is probably the route to stay on.  If you go with the D4s then you might need to stash away the savings in case the unit fails in the middle of the season, or have some other appropriate backup plan in place.


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## SuzukiGS750EZ (Apr 12, 2017)

Well, let's say the D5 is $6,500 and you can get the D4S for 2,500. What will you be able to do with the other 4K you saved besides not sleep on the couch? Not saying you were going to pony up $6,500 but if you had that, what would you buy with it? Is it something you can put to better use than the latest and greatest? I personally am the same, i need to have the newest to "stay ahead of the game", but when it comes to CANON lenses, i buy refurbished to save a bit of money. I won't buy used though. Can you maybe find a refurbished D5 or D4S that's in your price range (depending on what you find a refurb D4S for VS the deal you have in front of you).


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## fmw (Apr 13, 2017)

I recommend you take a shot with the D4 and get the shutter actuation count from the EXIF.  One would assume the camera store can make this happen.


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## jaomul (Apr 19, 2017)

D4s for me. If it's 4 grand cheaper, how much is a shutter replaced if need be, prob 500(I'm guessing). You'd still be 3.5k up, most newer model improvements are relatively small


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## jcdeboever (Apr 19, 2017)

Have you compared the specs between the D500, D5, and the D4S. From what I have read, the D500 kind of kicks the D5's butt in focus acquisition and is comparable in low light performance. The D500 is something to consider over the D5 anyway. Not sure about the D4S. Just thought I would throw that out there.


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## Peeb (Apr 19, 2017)

jcdeboever said:


> Have you compared the specs between the D500, D5, and the D4S. From what I have read, the D500 kind of kicks the D5's butt in focus acquisition and is comparable in low light performance. The D500 is something to consider over the D5 anyway. Not sure about the D4S. Just thought I would throw that out there.


But don't ignore the difference between DX and FX.  Neither is 'superior' to the other- but they are very different IMO.


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## astroNikon (Apr 19, 2017)

According to Dxo the D5 in lowlight sports ranks up there at
D5 FX is 2434 ISO
D500 DX is 1324 ISO
D5500 DX is 1438 ISO
D7200 DX is 1333 ISO
D200/D300/S at 583/ 679/787 ISO
but below some of the other FX bodies
D750 FX is 2956 ISO
D4 FX at 2965
D4S FX at 3074
D3X FX at 1992
D700 FX at 2303

With regards to the D500 incredibly high ISO range, I don't regard that as very useful at all though in the higher ISOs.  Ironically some websites (excluding dxo) think the D5500 has better High ISO "performance" - usable shots at higher ISOs.  Other's that think the D7200 has better ISO performance.

I did some extensive image ISO testing between the D5500, D7200, D7100, D500, D610, D750 and D810 last year of each cameras entire ISO range. Really the ISO performance between the D5500 and D500 at usable ISO ranges wasn't that much different; which was less than the jump up to the D750 FX.  I was all prepared to buy a D5500 until the place I got it at gave me an incredible deal.

I don't have the slew of categorized images right now of all the cameras,
but I believe this was the D500  at Hi-1



D500_ISO_Tests (25 of 28) by Steve Sklar, on Flickr

at Hi-2



D500_ISO_Tests (26 of 28) by Steve Sklar, on Flickr

and at HI-5



D500_ISO_Tests (28 of 28) by Steve Sklar, on Flickr

but good at 51200



D500_ISO_Tests (2 of 28) 51200 by Steve Sklar, on Flickr

25600



D500_ISO_Tests (5 of 28) 25600 by Steve Sklar, on Flickr

Of course I also had the D500 vs D750 indoor soccer shootout test in "bad" lighting. ==> D500 vs D750 Indoor Soccer Shootout

Some website tout the high ISO performance, but only touting the 6400 ISO and 12800ISO. ==> The Nikon D500 - Reigniting The DX / FX Debate And A Few High ISO Photos
==> Nikon D500 sensor review: Performance redefined | DxOMark

Unfortunately, I find myself above these ISO ranges quite frequently especially with indoor sports.  Plus the distance to subject has an impact on image quality in regards to high ISO (above 12800).  Cutting your distance in half with higher ISO is like a 1 or 2 stops improvement.  Studio type settings testing high ISO is different from a sport setting.

But that's all for research and learning about the camera against other cameras.

Don't get me wrong.  I love the D500 so far.  It's an incredible camera with so many features.  And for the first time I like shooting some baseball that I'm shooting to get the batter just hitting the ball using 10fps, from way outside the outfield.  yes, you can get this with 6.5fps and good timing, but my baseball timing isn't so great yet.



Plus the FOV of my telescope is now 9,000mm which is why I was hunting for a DX camera to begin with.

I wouldn't mind having a D4S though ...
At one time I really wanted a D3X (which supplanted the D700).  But now the D4S is on my "wish list" for when I'm stupid with money vs a normal price/performance ratio.


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## Timppa (Apr 19, 2017)

I would go for the d4s. You save a lot of money, that you can use for a back up camera like the d810, d750 or d500 and maybe still save money. 
And you might feel bad not having the d5, but what will you feel when the d5s or something comes out? Or d6? I believe running 1 model behind is fiancial very healthy and the differences are small.
Aaand most importantly, you keep your other half happy! Give the backup camera to her or something )


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## Solarflare (Apr 23, 2017)

Even if I had limitless money, I would skip the D5.

Yeah its nice to have useable images even at ISO 80k, but a full frame camera with worse dynamic range than a D3300 is just a joke.


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## lance70 (May 2, 2017)

I am waiting on the D6 or possibly D7......ISO of 1 million with a flippy screen, built in flashlight and razor.


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