# SmugMug vs Zenfolio - Questions on selling prints



## dakkon76 (Sep 6, 2011)

So I've looked over a few sites belonging to people here and while the layout on them seems easy to navigate, it seems like ordering prints is a bit complicated.

Zenfolio:
Once I clicked on "buy" it brought me to this big product page to choose my catetory- print, mug, etc. Then I chose and I had to specify my paper type, and even crop my own image.

SmugMug:
I click "buy" and it seems a little more simple, but still have to choose between 3 paper types and I can crop my image.

I suppose the crop is my biggest gripe. If I'm directing someone to an album online, then I want them to be able to click "buy" and basically just have to decide what size they want and be done. Is there a way to limit it to something that simple? Can I get rid of that crop option for customers?

Also... I had planned on tagging each image with the players' names, so that a parent could just search for pics of their kid. Is that something I can do with either of these, or are they just limited to having them grouped into password protected sets?


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## CCericola (Sep 6, 2011)

I like Millers labs shopping cart. It has a shopping cart especially for sports and events you can organize the pictures by team. You can make it so customers cannot crop. The ordering is simple and strait forward and millers offers all the standard sports stuff. We have since moved to a custom web shopping cart but millers is great for someone just starting out.


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## Robin Usagani (Sep 6, 2011)

On zenfolio you can specify what products to use. You don't have to include mugs, stamp, etc...  Just pm me if you have more questions.  I love zenfolio and I find it more professional than smugmug.  Check out my website.


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## dakkon76 (Sep 6, 2011)

Miller labs looked nice, but I'm not paying $25/month, sheesh! When you did a custom site, did you still retain the ability for people to have prints dropshipped directly or did you end up with them ordering through you, then you deliver to them? I was wondering if any gallery packages that I could install would be compatible with mpix or another lab.

So far, I'm with Schwetty I think... sounds like you can customize Zenfolio a little more than SmugMug, and it's cheaper.


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## KmH (Sep 6, 2011)

You won't pay $25 a MONTH? That's only $300 a year.
Drink 1 less soda pop, or latte a day.

A Premium Business account at Zenfolio is $250 a year. What kind of Zenfolio account were you considering?


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## CCericola (Sep 6, 2011)

The $25 a month is optional. You can pay per picture. For instance I uploaded a wedding for a couple so relatives could order. The total# of images was 322. It is .10 per image so 32.20 for that shoot. And total profit was 1723.85. I never did the monthly thing. They also take 10% of each sale. the 10% is why I paid $5k for a custom site. With future earning projections It will only take me 1 year to make the investment worth it. (So my business manager tells me, but hey, you have to trust someone right?)


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## CCericola (Sep 6, 2011)

Another option is Pictures Pro. However you are responsible for the orders.


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## dakkon76 (Sep 6, 2011)

The 10 cents per picture may not be a bad way for me to start if I go with them - that was my main concern. If it takes me 6-12 months to get some clients built up, then I'd like to spend as little per month as possible for upkeep; I assume I can always choose to upgrade from a per-picture fee to a monthly fee. I like the idea of instant gratification - most parents cruising through a site of their kids' pictures are going to want to pick some, order them, and not have to think about it again.

As for pop and lattes, I don't drink either on a regular basis... also likely due, in part, to my frugality


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## Robin Usagani (Sep 6, 2011)

Actually smugmug is more customizable if you know your html and css.  Price wise they are very similar.  I still went with zenfolio though.  The best subscription is $100/year I think.


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## vfotog (Sep 8, 2011)

dakkon76 said:


> So I've looked over a few sites belonging to people here and while the layout on them seems easy to navigate, it seems like ordering prints is a bit complicated.
> 
> Zenfolio:
> Once I clicked on "buy" it brought me to this big product page to choose my catetory- print, mug, etc. Then I chose and I had to specify my paper type, and even crop my own image.
> ...



The $100 Zenfolio should be more than enough for your needs. You can tag individual images and they'll be available when you search. And has been mentioned, you decide what products to offer. But I'm curious about your objection to cropping. If the customer wants a 4X6, there won't be cropping, but if they choose an 8X10, it's inevitable. Zenfolio does allow you to review and approve your customer's order if you want.


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## JG_Coleman (Sep 8, 2011)

dakkon76 said:


> Zenfolio: Once I clicked on "buy" it brought me to this big product page to choose my catetory- print, mug, etc. Then I chose and I had to specify my paper type, and even crop my own image.





dakkon76 said:


> I suppose the crop is my biggest gripe. If I'm directing someone to an album online, then I want them to be able to click "buy" and basically just have to decide what size they want and be done. Is there a way to limit it to something that simple? Can I get rid of that crop option for customers?



On one hand, I understand your gripe with the concept of allowing customers to crop an image.  After all, it adds one more step to the process that the customer must endure... which is probably not ideal.

However, I can only see potential problems erupting from the lack of this feature.  For example, the majority of the photographs that I sell through Zenfolio are displayed in a 2:3 aspect ratio.  Thus, a customer that desires an uncropped image must order sizes like 6x9, 8x12, 12x18, 16x24, 20x30, etc.

Inevitably, there will be some people that desire more traditionally-sized prints such as 8x10 or 16x20.  In this case, the photograph which they see in my galleries (and which prompted them to purchase) _must _be cropped to fit their desired size.  So, what they will be buying will NOT be what they saw on my website originally.  Quite frankly, I'd much rather have the customer make the call as to the crop they prefer.

Sure, setting up some sort of pre-determined crop would remove a step from the purchasing process.  But on the flip-side, I would take the risk of somebody getting their print and calling me up saying," Hey... I just ordered this print and it looks different from the image on the website!"  By allowing the customer to choose the crop, you ensure that they alone are responsible for making sure that their cropped print will retain the portions of the photograph that are important to them.  But at an even more basic level, it ensures that customers don't buy a print size that requires cropping without even knowing it (more common than you might think... many people don't "get" the idea of aspect ratios).  Without a notification to the customer that they must choose a crop, they might potentially never even realize that they ordered a "crop ratio" print.

Of course, there is a way around this...

You would need to ensure that EVERY image in your galleries was of the same aspect ratio (either 2:3 or 4:5, choose one).  In addition, you would have to disable the ability for customers to buy prints of any "crop ratio".  So if you choose to go with a 4:5 ratio, you'd need to disable the ability to sell 8x12 or 16x24 prints, for example.  Likewise, if you chose to use a 2:3 ratio, you'd need to disable the ability to sell 8x10 and 16x20 prints.  Using such a system would eliminate the need for cropping, thus removing that step that you'd prefer not to offer to the customer.

However, if you do want to offer print sizes of different aspect ratios, I don't really see any effective alternative to letting customers choose the way in which a given photograph will be cropped for the final print.


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