# 2 Alienbee 800's, stands, umbrellas, backdrops.  Am I out of my mind?



## keith204 (Sep 3, 2008)

Coming up I have a few portrait shoots.  All of the sudden there are several people wanting family portraits, and a corporation that's made the INC 500 list that wants me to do executive photos.  

I have photo money saved up for the "new" 5D, but with these opportunities, I am thinking my money would be better spent on some good equipment for on-location portraits.  

Here is what I'm currently looking into: 

Alienbee 800's kit $750 shipped - http://www.alienbees.com/digi.html - (extra $110 to upgrade to 800s).  Includes 2 umbrellas, stands, cases, and sync cords.
Portable backdrop kit - ~$99 from Adorama, etc
Backdrops - what's the best way to get good professional solid-color ones like in stock photos?  (greens, blues, greys)
Softbox - benefits over umbrellas?  Do I really have to spend $250+ for a softbox!?

If you could give any advice that would be great.  How much would this equip benefit me?


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## William Petruzzo (Sep 3, 2008)

I shoot all my on-location studio stuff with two Alienbees 800's. They're really excellent lights, but clunky if you don't get a set of Pocket Wizards to control them. I often find that I'd like a third light for hair or catch purposes. The AB 400 would be sufficient for that.

As far as backdrops are concerned, if you go the fabric rout, you'll be fighting wrinkles until you're blue in the face. I eventually bought some backdrop paper on a roll. It's cheaper, but way more forgiving in terms of delivering really polished backgrounds.

As for the softbox, it's my number one favorite piece of studio equipment. It smooths light out like no umbrella will. I would _definitely_ recommend you purchase one. The one from Alienbees is cheap and works, but it's a pain in the butt to set up and take down. If you spend more, you're likely to get one that's easier to assemble.

In a nutshell, the lights are great. Paper backgrounds the easiest to shoot. And definitely buy a nice big softbox.


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## keith204 (Sep 3, 2008)

How do I know which softbox will hook up to the alienbee 800?


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## William Petruzzo (Sep 3, 2008)

That's a pretty good question. The first studio lights I bought were were the alienbees and I still use them. I've used friends lights before, but I'm only well acquainted with the alienbees ones. I guess I just figured there was some kind of standard. Maybe there's not. 

However, apparently alienbees has released some new foldable softboxes that promise to be easy to set up. Of course, I wouldn't be able to vouch for them, but the rest of their promises have been well kept, so I'd be apt to believe them.


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## sabbath999 (Sep 3, 2008)

Let me know how it works out... I am going to get lights one of these days.


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## keith204 (Sep 3, 2008)

Here's my list so far... man that's expensive.  What would you do different?


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## Johnboy2978 (Sep 3, 2008)

I really think for the $ you can't go wrong with alien bees.  Others will disagree, but you could also spend $30k+ on Briese studio light, and in the end, the "average" customer won't see the difference in the prints if you know what you're doing.  I would add a wireless flash trigger to that.  Most of the softboxes with A/B require the heavy duty lightstand which I think you added?


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## keith204 (Sep 3, 2008)

Johnboy2978 said:


> I really think for the $ you can't go wrong with alien bees.  Others will disagree, but you could also spend $30k+ on Briese studio light, and in the end, the "average" customer won't see the difference in the prints if you know what you're doing.  I would add a wireless flash trigger to that.  Most of the softboxes with A/B require the heavy duty lightstand which I think you added?



The wireless flash triggers in there are in the list as "skyports" - as in, the cheaper alternative to pocekt wizards.  Is this what you are talking about?


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## Johnboy2978 (Sep 3, 2008)

sorry, overlooked it.


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## keith204 (Sep 3, 2008)

Johnboy2978 said:


> I really think for the $ you can't go wrong with alien bees.  Others will disagree, but you could also spend $30k+ on Briese studio light, and in the end, the "average" customer won't see the difference in the prints if you know what you're doing.  I would add a wireless flash trigger to that.  Most of the softboxes with A/B require the heavy duty lightstand which I think you added?




uh oh, the lightstands I have picked out so far are the 10ft ones for $39 each.  The 13 foot ones are the "Heavy duty" stands, for $69 each.


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## SpeedTrap (Sep 3, 2008)

Ok, I use AB, so here is my opinion,
The 800&#8217;s will work fine for what you need, but forget the bags, they are ok, but you can get a Rubbermaid style container to put them in with the cords, just wrap them in your backdrop.  I have been doing that for a few years.
The skyports work fine, but unless you need longer range, and I have never needed it, there are less expensive triggers, or heaven forbid, you run a sync cable(Every AB ships with one).
Get the large collapsible soft box, it is easy to use and gives great light.
As for the stands, get at least one of the heavy 13 ft stands; they are much more stable with the soft box on.


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## keith204 (Sep 3, 2008)

Good advice.  

I modified my cart to include 1 10ft stand, and 1 13ft HD stand.  Also, I dumped an 800 and added a 1600.  I get called for on-location events every once-in-awhile (ex:Christmas party for foster kids last year) and these are usually huge rooms where the flexibility of a brighter light for room fill could help.  

Well, I'll probably order tomorrow morning first thing.  AB gives a student discount (woohoo!) so if I call in and prove to them I'm a student, that's 10% off the entire order.

Thanks for the help!  Let me know if you have any other advice.  Thanks!


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## William Petruzzo (Sep 4, 2008)

keith204 said:


> Also, I dumped an 800 and added a 1600.  I get called for on-location events every once-in-awhile (ex:Christmas party for foster kids last year) and these are usually huge rooms where the flexibility of a brighter light for room fill could help.



If I were you I would keep both 800's and either get at 1600 later when you need it, or _add _it to the package now. I originally had one 400, two 800's and one 1600. The 1600 almost never saw use because in smaller rooms I often had trouble scaling things back enough to use be creative and flexible with my aperture settings. The light is just too bright. In the long run, it got used about 15% of the time. Even in large rooms and outside the 800's have always been more than sufficient, even running at less than full power. Ultimately, I sold the 1600 because it was never used and I had other more pressing equipment needs.

Also, I have both heavy duty stands from AB as well as the general stand. I wouldn't bother with the 10 foot stand. You're probably regularly going to want it extended beyond six feet, at which point it becomes a bit wobbly with one of the lights and umbrellas on top of it. I'd stick with the heavy duty stands, unless you plan to use the lightweight stand for an off camera speedlight or maybe as a reflector holder.


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## keith204 (Sep 4, 2008)

bpetruzzo said:


> If I were you I would keep both 800's and either get at 1600 later when you need it, or _add _it to the package now. I originally had one 400, two 800's and one 1600. The 1600 almost never saw use because in smaller rooms I often had trouble scaling things back enough to use be creative and flexible with my aperture settings. The light is just too bright. In the long run, it got used about 15% of the time. Even in large rooms and outside the 800's have always been more than sufficient, even running at less than full power. Ultimately, I sold the 1600 because it was never used and I had other more pressing equipment needs.
> 
> Also, I have both heavy duty stands from AB as well as the general stand. I wouldn't bother with the 10 foot stand. You're probably regularly going to want it extended beyond six feet, at which point it becomes a bit wobbly with one of the lights and umbrellas on top of it. I'd stick with the heavy duty stands, unless you plan to use the lightweight stand for an off camera speedlight or maybe as a reflector holder.



Great info, great to know.  I reduced it to an 800.  now I have 2 800's in the cart .  Man I'm glad you guys are talking me through this before I make a stupid decision!  

I played with off-camera lighting a bit about a year ago and it was fun, but I never got serious because the cheap ebay gear was too fidgety to use for real.  I am more than excited to be building a kit like this.  Can't wait to use it!

bpetruzzo, what are you saying about the 10ft one?  right now I have a 10 foot and a 13 foot in my cart.  The 13-foot will hold the softbox, and it is a "heavy duty" one, at least in Alienbee terms.  The 10-foot one will only hold an umbrella and the alienbee I imagine.  Is there something I am overlooking?


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## Johnboy2978 (Sep 4, 2008)

I have 2 of the 800's and I went with the generic stand for one and the heavy duty for the other b/c I also bought the large octobox.  IMO the stands that come with it are in my experience sturdy enough to use if it's going to hold nothing more than a light and umbrella.  At the time, I didn't have the extra money for 2 HD stands.  If you can afford the extra $40 or whatever it is per stand, it's probably better to do so rather than upgrading later (just like everything else in photography....cry once instead of everytime you use it).


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## keith204 (Sep 4, 2008)

Johnboy2978 said:


> I have 2 of the 800's and I went with the generic stand for one and the heavy duty for the other b/c I also bought the large octobox.  IMO the stands that come with it are in my experience sturdy enough to use if it's going to hold nothing more than a light and umbrella.  At the time, I didn't have the extra money for 2 HD stands.  If you can afford the extra $40 or whatever it is per stand, it's probably better to do so rather than upgrading later (just like everything else in photography....cry once instead of everytime you use it).



Great point.  I'll suck it up and get two heavy duty stands...shoot, what's another $40 on a $1500 investment?  Alright, about 30 minutes before they open and I order.  Right now I have the "Large Softbox" selected.  What reasons are there to go with the "Large Octobox" instead?  Another $40 extra...


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## Big Mike (Sep 4, 2008)

Good choice to go with the sturdier light stand.  Plenty of people will even tell you to go with the air-cushion stands, because that may save you from smashing a light...but I've been OK with regular stands (knock on wood).

I agree with pretty much everything else people have said.  I will mention that I have been using Cactus radio triggers ($30) with my studio lights and never had a problem.  I will probably get a set of Skyports or PWs eventually, but that's more for Speedlights used at weddings.  Indoors, the Cactus triggers haven't let me down.

And for $26, I'd get the bags, or else get a good case to carry them.  Speedtrap & I have shot together and borrowed each other's lights...they all work great, but I keep mine in the bags and they still look like they are brand new.


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## keith204 (Sep 4, 2008)

Big Mike said:


> Good choice to go with the sturdier light stand.  Plenty of people will even tell you to go with the air-cushion stands, because that may save you from smashing a light...but I've been OK with regular stands (knock on wood).
> 
> I agree with pretty much everything else people have said.  I will mention that I have been using Cactus radio triggers ($30) with my studio lights and never had a problem.  I will probably get a set of Skyports or PWs eventually, but that's more for Speedlights used at weddings.  Indoors, the Cactus triggers haven't let me down.
> 
> And for $26, I'd get the bags, or else get a good case to carry them.  Speedtrap & I have shot together and borrowed each other's lights...they all work great, but I keep mine in the bags and they still look like they are brand new.



Good to hear. 

I placed my order 5 minutes ago.  

*Alienbee.com*
2 SB800's (white)
2 cases
2 13ft HD stands
1 large 32x40 foldable softbox
---
$801 shipped after student 10% discount

*B&H*
1 Skyport set w/ 1 transmitter, and 2 receivers
4 extra batteries for skyport receivers
1 Impact support system (collapsible, 12' from B&H) rated 4.5/5
1 "Thunder Gray" 107" x 12yard paper roll
1 "Super Black" 107" x 12yard paper roll
1 "Super White" 107" x 12yard paper roll
1 "Baby Blue" 107" x 12yard paper roll
---
$598 shipped

Total was $1,399 with everything shipped.  Not too bad.  Though the shipping cost was $60 from B&H, that was very cheap considering there are 4 9-foot rolls of heavy paper in there.  I'm pretty excited, thanks for everyone's help!  :thumbup:


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## William Petruzzo (Sep 4, 2008)

keith204 said:


> Good to hear.
> 
> I placed my order 5 minutes ago.
> 
> ...



Weee! this is so much fun! The only change I'd have made was the "giant" softbox, but just because I have the giant one and I'm crazy about it. The large one will probably be fine. _But_ say you can still change it, remember a larger softbox will be smoother light, even regardless of where you place it which can make shooting easier, particularly in larger areas.


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## keith204 (Sep 4, 2008)

bpetruzzo said:


> Weee! this is so much fun! The only change I'd have made was the "giant" softbox, but just because I have the giant one and I'm crazy about it. The large one will probably be fine. _But_ say you can still change it, remember a larger softbox will be smoother light, even regardless of where you place it which can make shooting easier, particularly in larger areas.



Yeah that was a major consideration.  I am not sure about room space...how much I will have/need, so I will start off with this one, and I can see myself getting a second softbox in the near future, in which case I will go with a larger one if room allows.


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## Big Mike (Sep 4, 2008)

This is fun.  Don't you just love buying new stuff?

One thing, you have two lights, one softbox and no other diffusers?  Ideally, two softboxes would be good but I would still have ordered an umbrella for the 2nd light.  I don't think I've ever used a studio light without some sort of accessory, whether it's a softbox, umbrella, grid or background shovel etc.  Besides, one umbrella is pretty cheap.  I use the softbox for the main light, as close as I can get it to the subjects.  Then the fill light has an umbrella and is much farther back.
And yes, bigger is better, but when you work in homes or small studios, size is a factor because you run out of height really quickly.


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## William Petruzzo (Sep 4, 2008)

keith204 said:


> Yeah that was a major consideration.  I am not sure about room space...how much I will have/need, so I will start off with this one, and I can see myself getting a second softbox in the near future, in which case I will go with a larger one if room allows.



Right on, well I'm quite sure you're going to be happy with it. Now that I know about they make folding lightboxes, I'm itching to get a second one!

Congrats on the purchase. I can't wait to see with some of the stuff you create with them!


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## Big Mike (Sep 4, 2008)

Here's the deal with the folding vs non-folding softboxes.  

The folding ones are very easy to set up.  Slightly more involved than opening an umbrella...so it's pretty easy.  The problem is that when it's folded, it still takes up a fair amount of room because the speed ring is at 90 degrees to the arms.  It does come with a bag but it doesn't fold flat.  A regular softbox has arms that have to be assembled and put into the speed ring etc...which takes time.  But the advantage is that the arms come off and the whole thing can be laid flat.


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## bigalbest (Sep 4, 2008)

You can't beat those Alien Bee prices, I wonder how they stack up against higher end units like Profoto. I'd love to see some shots after you get your set.


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## Big Mike (Sep 4, 2008)

> You can't beat those Alien Bee prices, I wonder how they stack up against higher end units like Profoto. I'd love to see some shots after you get your set


If you search the internet, specifically sites like POTN...you will find a lot of people raving about them and a lot of people who don't like them.  From what I can tell, the biggest short coming is that the color temp is not consistent over the power range.  It's one of those things that some people won't even notice but is unacceptable for some picky pros.

Other than that, the price and quality seem to be very good.  Of course, there are other brands with similar specs and prices.


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## William Petruzzo (Sep 4, 2008)

> the biggest short coming is that the color temp is not consistent over the power range.



I'm a guy who loves to get things right the first time, in the camera. But you know what, for $15,000 I think I'm content to let Photoshop work a little magic.


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## keith204 (Sep 4, 2008)

Big Mike said:


> This is fun.  Don't you just love buying new stuff?
> 
> One thing, you have two lights, one softbox and no other diffusers?  Ideally, two softboxes would be good but I would still have ordered an umbrella for the 2nd light.  I don't think I've ever used a studio light without some sort of accessory, whether it's a softbox, umbrella, grid or background shovel etc.  Besides, one umbrella is pretty cheap.  I use the softbox for the main light, as close as I can get it to the subjects.  Then the fill light has an umbrella and is much farther back.
> And yes, bigger is better, but when you work in homes or small studios, size is a factor because you run out of height really quickly.



I forgot to mention, I already have two 43" umbrellas.  One white, one silver.  I'll see how this size works for me, and will make any future purchases if necessary.



bigalbest said:


> You can't beat those Alien Bee prices, I wonder how they stack up against higher end units like Profoto. I'd love to see some shots after you get your set.



You bet.  I will have some fun and post photos.


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## Big Mike (Sep 4, 2008)

> I forgot to mention, I already have two 43" umbrellas. One white, one silver. I'll see how this size works for me, and will make any future purchases if necessary.


Good stuff


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## Village Idiot (Sep 4, 2008)

I wish I would have seen this earlier. I would have given you the other option.


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## Bifurcator (Sep 4, 2008)

I don't understand soft-boxes. Why would anyone pay hundreds for a softbox when you can make a translucent panel for a handful of change?

You can even hover, position, and tilt it more easily - plus the diffusion amount is controllable by altering light source to panel proximity.


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## Village Idiot (Sep 4, 2008)

Bifurcator said:


> I don't understand soft-boxes. Why would anyone pay hundreds for a softbox when you can make a translucent panel for a handful of change?


 
A translucent panel that doesn't let light excape and has a sturdy mounting ring made for the strobe you're using, not to mention one that has the ability to attach a grid to for a more controlled light?

Build me a 24"x36" translucent panel that does all this and covers evenly for $129 and that doesn't take several hours worth of work to get all the parts working together correctly and order one from you for $129. It has to be easily collapsible and come with a bag to carry it it. And I need the ability to wash the translucent panel incase it gets dirty while working in some of the locations I know I'm going to be using it in.


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## Bifurcator (Sep 4, 2008)

I think light escaping is not a problem to control in the few situations where it's an actual problem. 

They aren't used with a mounting ring.

A grid is cake. I don't even understand why you would mention that.

If it's only 24x36 it's already folded up!  That's a tiny tiny size. I'm taking more like 6' x 4' where it's actually effective. And I guess build cost of a 6x4 like that is $30 to $50 and folds up nice.

Washable is not a problem.

Boom and arm swivel mounts are easy if you need to hover it.


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## Bifurcator (Sep 4, 2008)

But  $129 is pretty good and that kinda blows my reasoning. The ones I see are $300 to $1,000


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## bigalbest (Sep 4, 2008)

Bifurcator said:


> But  $129 is pretty good and that kinda blows my reasoning. The ones I see are $300 to $1,000



Ya, some of these prices are insane like this. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...or_12_2090_Para_330FB_Reflector_Umbrella.html


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## William Petruzzo (Sep 4, 2008)

bigalbest said:


> Ya, some of these prices are insane like this. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...or_12_2090_Para_330FB_Reflector_Umbrella.html



Ha. That's all image. Valuable, sure. But 8k, really?


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## keith204 (Sep 5, 2008)

Yeah there's no way I'm going build a softbox to save a few bucks.  I'll be doing some shooting for the executives of the company I work for, from time to time moving forward.  Last thing I want is something that falls apart over their head.


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## keith204 (Sep 5, 2008)

Alright, I just realized that I have an extra umbrella, extra stand, extra mounts, a Sunpak 383 Super Auto w/ an *optical* trigger.  If I threw this into the mix for some background light, or more fill light/hair light w/ snoot, etc, what complications am I facing here?


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## keith204 (Sep 14, 2008)

here you go - first shots

http://thephotoforum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1378599#post1378599

1.






2.





3.





4.


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## Bifurcator (Sep 15, 2008)

Nice! :thumbup:


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## Big Mike (Sep 15, 2008)

Yes, very nice.  The light is nice and soft.  
One thing to think about, especially on dark backgrounds, is how the subjects stands out  from the background.  In the first photo, the top of his head is blending into the background.  This is where you would want to use a hair light / kicker and light him from behind/above.


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## keith204 (Sep 15, 2008)

Big Mike said:


> Yes, very nice.  The light is nice and soft.
> One thing to think about, especially on dark backgrounds, is how the subjects stands out  from the background.  In the first photo, the top of his head is blending into the background.  This is where you would want to use a hair light / kicker and light him from behind/above.



yep.  *off to buy another alienbee*  hehe.  Not yet...at least.  Maybe I'll use my Sunpak 383 for this.  

I do see how more alienbees would be much better...especially for the white backdrop!

Also, read this post and give some advice on pricing:  http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=138212


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## Big Mike (Sep 15, 2008)

> yep. *off to buy another alienbee* hehe. Not yet...at least. Maybe I'll use my Sunpak 383 for this.


When I only had one studio light, I did use one or two hot-shoe flashes for additional lighting...but I found the slower recycle time to be extremely annoying, especially when shooting kids....I would wait for the right moment then want to fire a lot of shots as quickly as possible...but the hot-shoe unit could only fire once every couple seconds.


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## William Petruzzo (Sep 15, 2008)

Big Mike said:


> When I only had one studio light, I did use one or two hot-shoe flashes for additional lighting...but I found the slower recycle time to be extremely annoying, especially when shooting kids....I would wait for the right moment then want to fire a lot of shots as quickly as possible...but the hot-shoe unit could only fire once every couple seconds.



Yup. _That_ is a huge pain the butt. If you need a hair light, just grab B400. It does the job superbly.


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