# Using past end-of-life film developer



## Bernard Schulman (Apr 8, 2021)

hi, I recently found a box of ID11 which I had bought back in the early 80s. I'm planning to use it diluted at 1+1 to develop a few rolls of FP4 and HP5 films. Does anybody have experience using past EOL film developers? I'm hoping for adjusted developing times, to replace ILFORD's recommendations of 11 and 12 minutes for FP4 and HP5 respectively. Thanks.


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## webestang64 (Apr 8, 2021)

I only use fresh developer so I have no idea what to tell you. I certainly would not use it on any important film but if your just screwing around I guess it would work.


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## 480sparky (Apr 8, 2021)

I don't think the OP is wanting to use developers that are expired.  I think the question is about how to develop expired film.


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## limr (Apr 8, 2021)

480sparky said:


> I don't think the OP is wanting to use developers that are expired.  I think the question is about how to develop expired film.



Nah, read it again. The question is about a box of developer bought in the 80s.

I agree with @webestang64 - don't use it with anything you care about. I say go ahead and do it for the sake of scientific inquiry, though. Maybe shoot a couple of short rolls (if you roll your own - or get some cheap Lomo rolls if you don't roll your own so you don't waste your good film) and try the developer at recommended times, see how it comes out, and then slowly increase the times from there (25% more, 50% more...).


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## jcdeboever (Apr 8, 2021)

You could always take a film leader and drop it in there to see how long it takes to turn black. Personally, something that old and the style of developer it is, probably is not any good.


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## 480sparky (Apr 8, 2021)

limr said:


> 480sparky said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think the OP is wanting to use developers that are expired.  I think the question is about how to develop expired film.
> ...



I just read 'box' and equated that with a box of film.


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## limr (Apr 8, 2021)

480sparky said:


> limr said:
> 
> 
> > 480sparky said:
> ...



Tsk tsk tsk


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## 480sparky (Apr 8, 2021)

limr said:


> 480sparky said:
> 
> 
> > limr said:
> ...



That's what I get for never ever having used powder chemicals.  Mine always came in bottles.


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## maris (Apr 8, 2021)

Old developer and old film, what to do?
Ilford FP-4 was introduced in 1968 and was replaced by FP-4+ in 1990 so it's probably more than 30 years out of date.
Ilford HP-5 was introduced in 1976 and replaced by HP-5+ in 1989 so again it's maybe 30 years out of date.
If the ID-11 developer is not brown, indicating oxidation has happened, it may be still good. 
I reckon shoot these ancient films at half box speed and develop for the currently recommended times. There are no standard rules for such unlikely combinations of film and developer. Good luck.


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## webestang64 (Apr 8, 2021)

I have found that fresh Kodak X-Tol at 1:1 helps reduce the base fog of old BW films.


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## limr (Apr 8, 2021)

The OP never said the film is expired. Just the developer.


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## compur (Apr 8, 2021)

When in doubt read the instructions:

ILFORD DATA SHEET SAYS:

_"*Unopened packets* of PERCEPTOL, *ID-11* and MICROPHEN powder stored in cool and dry conditions, 4–20ºC (44–68ºF), *will keep indefinitely.* Once opened prepare stock solutions immediately."

https://www.ilfordphoto.com/amfile/file/download/file/1829/product/708/_


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## maris (Apr 8, 2021)

limr said:


> The OP never said the film is expired. Just the developer.


The OP wrote that he has FP-4 film. This film hasn't been manufactured since 1990 so I just assumed it would be out of date.
Similarly the HP-5 film, not having been manufactured since 1989, is surely out of date too. But again just an assumption.


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## Bernard Schulman (Apr 9, 2021)

Thanks to the replyers so far. Some confusion regarding what's old and what isn't: the films are suffixed "PLUS", recently bought, current stock; only the developer is (very) old stock. In any case, I'll try and keep track on how it goes, and post here the outcomes. Thanks again.


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## 480sparky (Apr 9, 2021)

I'm interested in knowing what your goal is.


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## limr (Apr 9, 2021)

maris said:


> limr said:
> 
> 
> > The OP never said the film is expired. Just the developer.
> ...



Or, one could assume that like very many others, people just skip writing the + for the sake of brevity and convenience.

But the OP has clarified, so it's moot at this point.


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## Bernard Schulman (Apr 15, 2021)

As promised: I developed 6 rolls of different films - FP4s and HP5s, all "Plus", all recently purchased - and all the negatives, on visual inspection, came up OK. I used the ID11 at 1+1 (discard), 20C, 11 mins for the FP4s and 13 mins for the HP5s, 4 inversions at the beginning of each minute - so, same parameters as if it was a current product.


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## TmRm (Jun 10, 2021)

My rule is:  film developer - when in doubt, don't use it; paper developer - why not?


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## Soocom1 (Jun 11, 2021)

From personal experience: 

If its powder you will probably have no problem.   
My father purchased ALOT of old Kodak developer from the 1950's when it was NEW!  it sat in the house until he passed away in 2004.  i took the darkroom equipment and did alot of 4x5 and med. format black and white.  i used some of the old developer that was in the cardboard/metal cans and it worked just fine. That was diff. of nearly 50 years from time of purchase to use. The film came out fine, graine was fine and the film was TMax. 

Is there a possibility of going bad? Sure. 
but if kept in a 'cool dry place" it should work fine. 
 If its clumped, its probably done.


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## Rickbb (Jun 11, 2021)

As Compur said, unmixed dry powdered chems have NO expiration date, none. With recently purchased film mix and process as normal.


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