# Applying for photographer jobs?



## DGMPhotography (Apr 5, 2017)

So, I've realized that in order to really grow my business, I need to be able to invest in it (one of those spend money to make money things), and so I am looking for full-time photography employment. Thus, I would make enough money to pay off my debt and start saving capital for my business, and I would still be doing what I enjoy and learning things along the way, ultimately contributing to me and my business.

I've learned a few things about myself that I think will make full time work feasible for me, and am hoping some of you may have advice!

I applied for one position, and was ultimately not selected (not even for an interview), and just applied to another. What sort of things in your experience help you stand out? Anyone here serve as a hiring manager for a staff photographer gig?

Also, anyone have advice or thoughts if they've been a staff photographer? 

Thanks!


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## KmH (Apr 5, 2017)

Staff photographer jobs started disappearing about 15 years ago.
From 4 years ago:
'Chicago Sun-Times' Lays Off Full Photo Staff

Most of the laid off staff photographers started freelance businesses.
Most of those new businesses failed, and those photographers had to seek other employment.

Nat Geo went to only using freelancers about 6 years ago.

I am not aware of *any* staff photographer jobs.


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## DGMPhotography (Apr 5, 2017)

KmH said:


> Staff photographer jobs started disappearing about 15 years ago.
> From 4 years ago:
> 'Chicago Sun-Times' Lays Off Full Photo Staff
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> ...



I've already applied to two. There's a local fashion boutique that hires them time to time, and my college hires them.


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## tirediron (Apr 5, 2017)

The Armed Forces employ thousands of staff photographers and pay very well too.


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## DGMPhotography (Apr 5, 2017)

tirediron said:


> The Armed Forces employ thousands of staff photographers and pay very well too.



I actually looked at that... but I don't think that's for me.


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## tirediron (Apr 5, 2017)

DGMPhotography said:


> tirediron said:
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Don't know 'til you try, right?


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## DGMPhotography (Apr 5, 2017)

tirediron said:


> DGMPhotography said:
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Well a lot of the positions I looked at are combat photographers, and I have no desire to be in that sort of situation.


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## tirediron (Apr 5, 2017)

You can always change your drawers later... think of the images you could get!!


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## zombiesniper (Apr 5, 2017)

DGMPhotography said:


> actually looked at that... but I don't think that's for me.



Look around at other opportunities but don't completely dismiss this one.
Nobody else on the planet is going to take you, hand you thousands of dollars worth of their gear, teach you how to use it (I know you know how), send you around the world to take photo's and pay you enough to save up for your business.
For a short time (a few years) investment you could be setup quite nicely.


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## zombiesniper (Apr 5, 2017)

DGMPhotography said:


> Well a lot of the positions I looked at are combat photographers, and I have no desire to be in that sort of situation.



Try not to take macro shots of bullets in motion.


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## Gary A. (Apr 5, 2017)

I was a staff photographer for newspapers and wire service.  Photojournalism experience and journalism/communications degree was the number one criteria for hiring.

I suggest an internship/externship approach.  Your job interview/portfolio needs to reflect the genre you are seeking employment. Trust me, working in the same field which you have a passion for, will quickly tarnish that passion into just another job. (Not quite as just another job, but pretty close.)


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## chuasam (Apr 5, 2017)

zombiesniper said:


> DGMPhotography said:
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Remember how cool Apocalypse Now is?


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## DGMPhotography (Apr 5, 2017)

zombiesniper said:


> DGMPhotography said:
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Fair enough.. but from what I researched, I would have to go through boot camp and all that, with no guarantee of my desired MO of photography. I don't knock the armed services, but it doesn't really align with my personal beliefs. Although... if things don't work out, I may end up just saying screw it and see what happens.



Gary A. said:


> I was a staff photographer for newspapers and wire service.  Photojournalism experience and journalism/communications degree was the number one criteria for hiring.
> 
> I suggest an internship/externship approach.  Your job interview/portfolio needs to reflect the genre you are seeking employment. Trust me, working in the same field which you have a passion for, will quickly tarnish that passion into just another job. (Not quite as just another job, but pretty close.)



The ones I've looked at so far ask for a variety of work. Meh... I just don't want a desk job, and I need money and feel like I would still be able to learn something.


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## Gary A. (Apr 5, 2017)

DGMPhotography said:


> zombiesniper said:
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Research into the company which you are seeking employment should provide an insight what type(s) of photography the company desires. I would think that most companies would want a PR/News type of photo over a Studio/Product type of photog. But I am guessing.  Again, an internship, I think would be invaluable.


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## astroNikon (Apr 6, 2017)

tirediron said:


> You can always change your drawers later... think of the images you could get!!


Yeah, I did a shoot where I had to sit on a live bomb and take photos all the way down including the explosion.
The ride was a blast !!

LOL, seriously though, I think I'd rather have a rifle then a camera in many of those situations.  Watching a lot of that stuff from CNN.  But those type of jobs seems to springboard many into high visibility jobs after that though mostly for the commentator.




DGMPhotography said:


> Fair enough.. but from what I researched, I would have to go through boot camp and all that, with no guarantee of my desired MO of photography..


 Keep in mind, without that training you wouldn't know what the company you were with was doing (moving around etc) and you'd probably be in great danger as you wouldn't know how to properly position and protect yourself if the you know what hits the fan.   ie, you'd be a sitting duck with a camera.

I wouldn't mind being a Navy photographer for a short stint.


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## MSnowy (Apr 6, 2017)

I think you might have better luck selling   typewriters then getting a staff photography job that's going to pay off your bills.


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## DanOstergren (Apr 6, 2017)

So much pessimism in this thread. Don't give up; while it's rare, high paying staff photographer jobs do exist, and fortune favors those who work hard and want it the most.

Remind me where you live though. Unless it's NYC or LA, your opportunities for internships is low, and considering that half the business is about who you know and who you cross paths with, you'll need to be somewhere with good networking opportunities. This is based on me assuming you want to work as a portrait, fashion and beauty photographer based on the type of images you excel at and share here.


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## Gary A. (Apr 6, 2017)

astroNikon said:


> tirediron said:
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I've shot combat.  I cannot remember seeing any military photographers out there elbow-to-elbow with the grunts in a firefight.


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## DGMPhotography (Apr 6, 2017)

MSnowy said:


> I think you might have better luck selling   typewriters then getting a staff photography job that's going to pay off your bills.



Why is no one seeing my posts where I've mentioned that I've already applied to TWO. The first was $45,000, the next is $52,000-55,000. That's more than adequate to pay off my bills. What I was seeking for with this thread was tips or tricks to help my application stand out from the crowd. 



DanOstergren said:


> So much pessimism in this thread. Don't give up; while it's rare, high paying staff photographer jobs do exist, and fortune favors those who work hard and want it the most.
> 
> Remind me where you live though. Unless it's NYC or LA, your opportunities for internships is low, and considering that half the business is about who you know and who you cross paths with, you'll need to be somewhere with good networking opportunities. This is based on me assuming you want to work as a portrait, fashion and beauty photographer based on the type of images you excel at and share here.



I'm from Richmond. While, yes, I do love portrait photography, I actually enjoy all forms of photography. The jobs I've applied for so far would be photographing events and student life.


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## KmH (Apr 6, 2017)

DGMPhotography said:


> I've already applied to two. There's a local fashion boutique that hires them time to time, and my college hires them.


If it's not a full time job it's not a staff photographer job, it's freelance.

Being a military photographer is a not the same as being a staff photographer in the private sector.


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## MSnowy (Apr 6, 2017)

DGMPhotography said:


> MSnowy said:
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Yes I saw that and I saw where you didn't get those jobs either not even an interview.  I think realistically you'looking at maybe $20,000 a year working as a photographer for a company.  I think you're in the same boat as most of the people on here , they work in another line of work to pay for their photography.


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## limr (Apr 6, 2017)

One other thing you might want to consider: are you the kind of person who can go to work, spend 7 hours shooting pictures for your employer, and then go home and still be excited about shooting your own work for your business? Or are you the person who will get burnt out from doing it all day and then need a break?

Some people thrive on being totally immersed in the same kind of work all the time, and even though their day job isn't particularly creative, they can gain inspiration and go home to act on that inspiration. Others get drained if they are engaging in the work in a way that doesn't interest them. For example, if I wanted to really focus on my writing, I would never take a staff writing job. I couldn't spend my days writing stock articles or whatever, and then go home to continue writing for myself. I would have nothing left over.

But everyone is different. It's just something you might want to think about now, to really take a good look at what you need in order to focus on your own work. Better to think about it now than after 5 years of a staff photographer job that has left you burnt out on photography.


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## DGMPhotography (Apr 6, 2017)

KmH said:


> DGMPhotography said:
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Both the ones I've applied to are full time 40hr/week with benefits jobs. I don't know how that wasn't clear, but I guess that's my bad. 



MSnowy said:


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Okay, and that's why I'm posting here. I asked the company for feedback on why I wasn't selected, and in lieu of that posted here asking for advice on getting an edge up. And the second job, I applied to just yesterday, so........ that's still up in the air. And like I said, both of those jobs are $40,000+



limr said:


> One other thing you might want to consider: are you the kind of person who can go to work, spend 7 hours shooting pictures for your employer, and then go home and still be excited about shooting your own work for your business? Or are you the person who will get burnt out from doing it all day and then need a break?
> 
> Some people thrive on being totally immersed in the same kind of work all the time, and even though their day job isn't particularly creative, they can gain inspiration and go home to act on that inspiration. Others get drained if they are engaging in the work in a way that doesn't interest them. For example, if I wanted to really focus on my writing, I would never take a staff writing job. I couldn't spend my days writing stock articles or whatever, and then go home to continue writing for myself. I would have nothing left over.
> 
> But everyone is different. It's just something you might want to think about now, to really take a good look at what you need in order to focus on your own work. Better to think about it now than after 5 years of a staff photographer job that has left you burnt out on photography.



Guess I would have to try it to find out. I think I would enjoy it more than my last full time gig, sitting at a desk all day.


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## vintagesnaps (Apr 6, 2017)

i don't remember what you majored in but I'd say look into what else you can do with that coursework or degree (since you left the first job I guess you don't want to do that sort of work again). Find something in your area like seminars or workshops etc. on how to interview, etc. Find out what fields are hiring and what might be related to what you went to school for. I don't know if your school has anything related to job skills etc. for alumni; schools in my area do. It seems like more jobs require training or an assoc. or bachelor's degree or a one year program.

I met a photographer at a local university and for a school of around 15 thou I think they only have two full time staff photographers. I don't think there ever were a lot of photography jobs, and many like working for a local newspaper have changed into freelance contracted jobs, not salaried positions. I did a little googling and it wasn't hard to find listings but there seem to only be a handful and mostly hourly pay for anything photography related. In my area it's not just been photography but media; I know three guys in local radio who all ended up out of jobs and into something else (sales, retail jobs). 

I think most photographers have always been in business for themselves and it seems to have gotten more challenging because of being undercut by amateurs with cameras etc. Maybe that will somewhat run its course if people get tired of crap for cheap but any way you look at it, it seems to take time for a photographer to build up a reputation and maybe (a big maybe) develop it into full time work. The other photographers I've known in my area have done it as a sideline, and some of them combined local sports shooting with doing weddings, etc. 

I don't know if full time photography is going to be lucrative for too many people. I liked what I did for a living enough to stay at the last job for 20 years. The photography was a sideline and done for the love of it, hardly for full time income or enough money to live on. I'd say to try to open your mind to possibilities and figure out what could be some options and ways you might be able to do photography and other work that you'd enjoy and that could be satisfying.


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## pixmedic (Apr 6, 2017)

man...
you just gotta go for it. 
nothing ventured, nothing gained. 

that being said....
if your applying for different photography jobs, make sure  you research each one so you can best prepare for the application and interview process, as well as prepping your portfolio. different jobs may want different things. dont just send the same stuff to everyone. figure out what each one wants, then pad your resume with those things. 
hire a professional resume builder to take all your information and put it in the best resume format possible. 
if you interview but dont get the job, ask them what _*would*_ have gotten you the job, then work on improving those things. 
then just beat down some doors and bust some heads until someone hires you. 
I know people that have spent _*years*_ trying to get into a fire department..._*any *_department, within a 50+ mile radius...and they are _*still*_ trying. 
don't be afraid to take some **** jobs/position until you can work into the one you really want. 
it took me 5 years to work up from a $9 an hour position to a $60k+ a year position.


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## Light Guru (Apr 6, 2017)

DGMPhotography said:


> Why is no one seeing my posts where I've mentioned that I've already applied to TWO. The first was $45,000, the next is $52,000-55,000. That's more than adequate to pay off my bills.



With pay like that those are NOT entry level photographer positions. Those jobs are going to be looking for years of photography experience that you don't have.  That would also be why you didn't even get called in for an interview 



MSnowy said:


> I think realistically you'looking at maybe $20,000 a year working as a photographer for a company.



Sounds about right for a entry level photographer position, and most likely it will just be part time. 

Most photographers nowadays will start out with a unrelated photography job and will do photography freelancing on the side.  They will slowly build up enough side work that they can then leave their other job.

You seem to be expecting to magically start out working in a well paying full time photographer position, unfortunately that just doesn't happen.


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## DGMPhotography (Apr 6, 2017)

Light Guru said:


> DGMPhotography said:
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> ...



Idk.. my work is pretty decent. And technically I have 7 years of experience. I'm only applying to jobs that I qualify for. There are plenty that I don't.

I suspect that first job just hired from within, since it was the art school.


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## MSnowy (Apr 6, 2017)

De


DGMPhotography said:


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Decent and 7 years experience of a as a hobbyist photographer doesn't mean much to a potential employers who are offering a $45,000 salary. They are looking for someone whose work stands out above the crowd. They also want someone they can count on to produce, they don't have time to teach.  One thing I've notice in my 45 years of working is that having a connection with someone within the company your applying to really increases your chance of landing the job you want.  So networking is a good starting point.


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## Dave442 (Apr 6, 2017)

I expect any company looking for a staff photographer wants someone that fits in with their business. Like Gary noted, a newspaper favors photographers with journalism degrees. I think a staff position job would also have the company looking more at your LinkedIn account over FB and Instagram, so you might look to fill that out a bit more. 

Your webpage would need to have a stronger listing of your achievements, it still sounds like you want to be a photographer not that you are a photographer and that you want to take great pictures and not that you do take great pictures. 

As you noted the first position went to someone already on the inside, they had the contacts. If your not on the inside then you need to network to be in contact with someone who is on the inside, someone that can give you the referral.


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## DGMPhotography (Apr 6, 2017)

Dave442 said:


> I expect any company looking for a staff photographer wants someone that fits in with their business. Like Gary noted, a newspaper favors photographers with journalism degrees. I think a staff position job would also have the company looking more at your LinkedIn account over FB and Instagram, so you might look to fill that out a bit more.
> 
> Your webpage would need to have a stronger listing of your achievements, it still sounds like you want to be a photographer not that you are a photographer and that you want to take great pictures and not that you do take great pictures.
> 
> As you noted the first position went to someone already on the inside, they had the contacts. If your not on the inside then you need to network to be in contact with someone who is on the inside, someone that can give you the referral.



Fortunately, for this other position, I do have someone on the inside... so we'll see where that goes.


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## Gary A. (Apr 6, 2017)

When I started working at the Times, it was a transition period and the paper was hiring a lot of young "smart-a$$e$" as the older reporters/photogs call us.  The young, newly hired reporters/photogs started hanging together after work.  At one of the first parties we all sat around and gave a brief verbal resume to the others.  To the person, we all stated that we had no idea why we were hired/chosen and that we all knew reporters and photographers who were better and more qualified than ourselves.

The moral of that story is don't give up.  There may or may not be a lot of logic to hiring.  In another thread the OP wrote that he just got an important gig ... he wasn't the best ... but maybe he was the best available.  Keep refining your resume and portfolio and keep knocking on doors.


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## Cody'sCaptures (Apr 7, 2017)

Take cynicism in stride and good luck in you endeavors


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## Vtec44 (Apr 7, 2017)

I started my business by working 2 full time jobs, my 9-5 and my photography business, and getting literally 2 or 3 hours of sleep nightly for about 3 years. Running a successful photography business is very different than doing it as a hobby.  It requires a lot of time, dedication, and maintaining motivation to things that are often not photography related.  Luckily, I was working at a high paying job in a position where I could also work on my business and build it at the same time.   I built enough clients, was consistently making as much money with my photography business for 3 consecutive years (accounting for 401 & health insurance),  saved enough in my emergency fund, paid of pretty much all of my debt, and then I quit.   I have been doing even better since I quit because now I have more time to build my business even more, but the solid business foundation was already set even before I quit.

If your intention is to build a business, apply for something that would cover your expenses but also allow you to work on your business.  That may mean that you're working night shifts so that you can take on photography gigs and build clients during the day. 

Whatever you decide, best of luck.  It's not an easy thing but very rewarding building your own dreams instead of someone else's.


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## DGMPhotography (Apr 7, 2017)

Vtec44 said:


> I started my business by working 2 full time jobs, my 9-5 and my photography business, and getting literally 2 or 3 hours of sleep nightly for about 3 years. Running a successful photography business is very different than doing it as a hobby.  It requires a lot of time, dedication, and maintaining motivation to things that are often not photography related.  Luckily, I was working at a high paying job in a position where I could also work on my business and build it at the same time.   I built enough clients, was consistently making as much money with my photography business for 3 consecutive years (accounting for 401 & health insurance),  saved enough in my emergency fund, paid of pretty much all of my debt, and then I quit.   I have been doing even better since I quit because now I have more time to build my business even more, but the solid business foundation was already set even before I quit.
> 
> If your intention is to build a business, apply for something that would cover your expenses but also allow you to work on your business.  That may mean that you're working night shifts so that you can take on photography gigs and build clients during the day.
> 
> Whatever you decide, best of luck.  It's not an easy thing but very rewarding building your own dreams instead of someone else's.



Yeah, that's how I've been feeling lately.


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## DanOstergren (Apr 8, 2017)

MSnowy said:


> One thing I've notice in my 45 years of working is that having a connection with someone within the company your applying to really increases your chance of landing the job you want. So networking is a good starting point.


This is so important. Being successful as an artist is directly related to the people you know and what they can do to help you (and vice versa).


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## DGMPhotography (Apr 8, 2017)

DanOstergren said:


> MSnowy said:
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Seems to apply to most fields, honestly.


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## birdbonkers84 (Apr 11, 2017)

Have you tried Linkedin? Great platform for networking...how I got my  3D job I'm currently in.

good example, I met a guy in Vancouver that does 3D there (gaming) and I spoke to him and got his contact details and connected with him on Linkedin as I have a real interest in character design.


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## intentanalyst (Apr 12, 2017)

DGMPhotography said:


> KmH said:
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 There are a lot of jobs online. Maybe you should try applying there too.


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## DGMPhotography (Apr 12, 2017)

intentanalyst said:


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Lol, I haven't applied for a job in person since 10th grade in high school.


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## pixmedic (Apr 12, 2017)

DGMPhotography said:


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maybe you should consider it.
applying in person might set you apart from all the other applicants that also just assume that online-only applications are fine.
photography is a very personal business. an extra personal touch might make the difference.


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## DGMPhotography (Apr 12, 2017)

pixmedic said:


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The ones I've applied to are online only. As it seems a lot of jobs are becoming these days.


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## Light Guru (Apr 13, 2017)

DGMPhotography said:


> The ones I've applied to are online only. As it seems a lot of jobs are becoming these days.



Yes many places have the application process completely online, but nothing is stoping you from stopping my in person to drop off a printed portfolio.


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## Juga (Apr 15, 2017)

DGMPhotography said:


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I am in the Coast Guard and it is very much not a combat photographer situation. Additionally, unlike many other branches if you desire to go the Public Affairs Specialist route then it is just a matter of waiting for your name to go through the list.


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## DGMPhotography (Apr 15, 2017)

Juga said:


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What do you do in the Coast Guard?


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## Gary A. (Apr 15, 2017)

Trump is cutting the Coast Guard budget by 14%.


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## Juga (Apr 15, 2017)

DGMPhotography said:


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I am an Operations Specialist. Usually I do Search and Rescue planning and communications. If I had a do-over I would definitely have gone Public Affairs Specialist which is mostly photography but includes videography and writing articles which isn't a huge deal to me. I have been in for 12 years and have appreciated every moment of it. Even being an Operations Specialist I have done PA things at my unit and have had some of my photos published in a couple of articles.



Gary A. said:


> Trump is cutting the Coast Guard budget by 14%.



It is a purposed budget cut and isn't the first time I have seen purposed cuts like this to the Coast Guard. I doubt it will be that steep if at all. Plus the President doesn't just wave a wand and things happen.


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