# No more sodium streetlights



## runnah (Feb 5, 2014)

How LED Streetlights Will Change Cinema (And Make Cities Look Awesome)

Coming to a city near you.


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## Big Mike (Feb 5, 2014)

That is definitely the way the industry is headed.  

At my job, we make generator powered light towers and we are seeing a demand for LED lighting.  We are testing a few different types/manufacturers.  The issue, for us, is that so far they don't provide as much light as our current type of lights and they cost A LOT more.  But the technology is improving rapidly.


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## runnah (Feb 5, 2014)

Big Mike said:


> That is definitely the way the industry is headed.
> 
> At my job, we make generator powered light towers and we are seeing a demand for LED lighting.  We are testing a few different types/manufacturers.  The issue, for us, is that so far they don't provide as much light as our current type of lights and they cost A LOT more.  But the technology is improving rapidly.



I am sure I've seen a few of yours on job sites. Yeah I have no idea how'd they make LED ones that pushed out enough light.


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## TheFantasticG (Feb 5, 2014)

I'm definitely for whatever technology brings my star-filled nights back. It's gotten remarkably worse over the last five years and as the city of Houston grows it's only going to get worse.

Needless to say the Wife and I will be moving within the next 10 years to somewhere deep in uninhibited lands despite slow internets because being able to view the heavens nightly matters to us.


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## limr (Feb 5, 2014)

Interesting article, though the two things that struck me the most were at the end:

"I mention this simply because the specter of an all-LED urban lighting scheme raises the horror-movie-like possibility of a kind of city-wide neurological accident as the wrong color choice is inadvertently installed across the entire metropolis, leading to sleeplessness, shortness of attention span, and irritability, its citizens wandering around at night, sullen, introverted, and plagued with insomnia, being slowly driven insane by the streetlights casting blue-tinted shadows all around them..."

First, I do wonder about the effects of lighting on lifestyle and biological rhythms.

Second, since when is being introverted a symptom of a neurological disorder? Dick.


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## runnah (Feb 5, 2014)

TheFantasticG said:


> I'm definitely for whatever technology brings my star-filled nights back. It's gotten remarkably worse over the last five years and as the city of Houston grows it's only going to get worse.
> 
> Needless to say the Wife and I will be moving within the next 10 years to somewhere deep in uninhibited lands despite slow internets because being able to view the heavens nightly matters to us.



Come up to Maine, we got plenty of starry skies, no jobs, but hey stars!




nightsky by runnah555, on Flickr


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## minicoop1985 (Feb 5, 2014)

The city I happen to inhabit has been switching to LEDs and man is it a HUGE difference. I hate high pressure sodium lights. Low pressure sodiums (those old school yellow ones) are even worse-there's still one at a business behind my house. The LEDs have MUCH better color rendition than metal halide (what they use in stadiums) and use way less power, so the city could funnel more money into repairing my road but will instead spend money on sucking up to the tavern league.


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## TheFantasticG (Feb 5, 2014)

runnah said:


> Come up to Maine, we got plenty of starry skies, no jobs, but hey stars!  http://www.flickr.com/photos/75692888@N02/11558815735/ nightsky by runnah555, on Flickr



Cool. We will actually be visiting Maine this year. Where I live doesn't matter for work, let's just say anyway. The darkest skies in the US can be found deep in the southwest of Texas by Big Bend National Park according to all the dark sky charts I have looked at. Also, by the Grand Canyon west is equally as dark (ie least amount of light pollution).


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## Designer (Feb 5, 2014)

Just guessing here, but I imagine that LA is changing out all the lights at once in an effort to use less power, thus to reduce their "carbon footprint".  

Typical of them to spend millions to save tens of thousands.


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## Derrel (Feb 5, 2014)

A VERY interesting article!!! The sample photos really make it clear just how yellowish the old streetlights were.


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## TheFantasticG (Feb 5, 2014)

limr said:


> Second, since when is being introverted a symptom of a neurological disorder? Dick.



Quite while now.

Second, it's pretty well known our artificial lighting at night has profound affects on wild life and especially the ones that are migratory.


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## leeroix (Feb 5, 2014)

my town switched over a while ago... some wierd flickering effects at twilight. (i'm assuming because the automatic light sensor is not getting enough or too little light to fully turn the light on or off)


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## Designer (Feb 5, 2014)

leeroix said:


> my town switched over a while ago... some wierd flickering effects at twilight. (i'm assuming because the automatic light sensor is not getting enough or too little light to fully turn the light on or off)



Probably.  The sodium lights take longer to light, so you didn't notice the on-off-on-off-on of the photo sensors.


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## Big Mike (Feb 5, 2014)

> and use way less power, so the city could funnel more money into repairing my road but will instead spend money on sucking up to the tavern league.


That's the thing....it will take years, probably decades before these pay for themselves.  Sure, they use less power, but they are still A LOT more expensive and then there is the cost to remove the old ones and install new ones.  

Besides using less power, they should also have a longer lifespan and thus need less maintenance, which is a big cost saver.  

But in terms of what my company does, we can offer our customers an LED option (as opposed to our current metal halide).  But the lights cost around $1000 more for each one, so with 4 lights on a tower, that's a $4000 increase in price, and they provide less light.  Sure, it's a 'nice white' light, but at 100 feet away, the difference in the amount of light is dramatic.


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## EOV (Feb 5, 2014)

Our little town got a grant to replace all the street lights with LED last fall. They are really awesome! I have been working on getting some photos while dog sitting and they look very 'clean.'


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## Bossy (Feb 5, 2014)

Thats neat!
Blue lights also contribute to less crime


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## TheFantasticG (Feb 5, 2014)

Bossy said:


> Thats neat! Blue lights also contribute to less crime



Facts from reputable sources to back that claim up?


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## minicoop1985 (Feb 5, 2014)

TheFantasticG said:


> Bossy said:
> 
> 
> > Thats neat! Blue lights also contribute to less crime
> ...



Well, the red light district is usually where all the crime is...


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## minicoop1985 (Feb 6, 2014)

Big Mike said:


> > and use way less power, so the city could funnel more money into repairing my road but will instead spend money on sucking up to the tavern league.
> 
> 
> That's the thing....it will take years, probably decades before these pay for themselves.  Sure, they use less power, but they are still A LOT more expensive and then there is the cost to remove the old ones and install new ones.
> ...



Sorry, I didn't use the sarcasm font.  I can attest that you're right. I went shopping for LED bulbs today for my "soft lights" (OK, just some clamp lights with white pillowcases over them and CFL bulbs but those still get a little warm). Holy crap they're still waaaaaaaaaay more expensive than I thought they would be. And yeah, I'm shocked the city did that, because it funneled money AWAY from the tavern league. Pretty sure they sold a couple plows for them...


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## Nibbio (Feb 9, 2014)

That looks cool.


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## bribrius (Feb 9, 2014)

runnah said:


> TheFantasticG said:
> 
> 
> > I'm definitely for whatever technology brings my star-filled nights back. It's gotten remarkably worse over the last five years and as the city of Houston grows it's only going to get worse.
> ...



yeah. like we need more tourists.


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## TheFantasticG (Feb 9, 2014)

bribrius said:


> yeah. like we need more tourists.



Hey, at least i will be pumping money into the local economy. Unless you hate local businesses making money from people like me then sure, I can understand your stance.


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## Stevepwns (Feb 10, 2014)

I worked as an electrician for a good number years, primarily on street lights.  We retrofitted 5 communities in 2 years that each had no less than 100 street lights.  We removed the HPS or the MH, and re-installed an identical fixture with an LED set up.  The initial cost is huge, because the technology is still new.  But the fixtures have a life span of 10 years as apposed to 2 years, there is ZERO maintenance and carried a 10 year warranty.  So basically, the community paid to have them installed and then for the most part only has to pay the electric bill.  The fist 2 years we didn't hear back from 3 of the communities at all.  The other 2 had a few faulty fixtures and were replaced for free.  The initial saving was about 70 percent a year in the first 2 years, after that it was roughly 65 percent.  LED lights can pay for themselves in under 5 years depending on what you are buying. Street lights for instance can save the community a lot of money.  On top of all that, they produce a whiter, cleaner light, thus not needing to be as bright allowing for darker skies.


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