# Buying my first lighting kit: flash or strobes?



## Halnex

This is my first time buying a lighting kit and my budget is at 800$.

Mainly I will be using it for fashion/glamour and general portraits.
I'm using Nikon D800.

Should I go with Flash or Strobes?
Which one is more effective with portraits?

Should I be interested in a flash ring as well?
What benefits could it bring to my photos?

Thank you.


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## Braineack

strobes.


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## Halnex

How come?

I'm new to this and would love to know more about your experience with strobes vs flash.


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## Derrel

The modeling lights, fast recycling, and ease of attaching modifiers are the three main advantages of studio flash over portable speedlights. Being able to SEE what your lighting effects are, at all times, in real-time, is a huge advantage for the beginning lighting student. Being able to SEE what you are doing with a continuous feedback loop is a major deal, until you develop a LOT of ability with light placement.


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## Scatterbrained

Speedlights (generally referred to as flash) are a design aimed around portability and convenience.   They are designed to be used primarily on the camera and as such are smaller, less powerful, and put out a very directional light.   Strobes are designed to be used on a stand, with a large range of modifiers.  They are more powerful (considerably), have better light distribution (good for use in a modifier), can hold large modifiers without any special mounting equipment, and run on A/C power rather than AA batteries.   If you need more power than a speedlight but something more portable than a proper strobe, you can go with a bare bulb flash like the Godox Wistro/Cheetah 360, or the Quantum Q-Flash.


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## Designer

I presume you mean in-studio formal portraiture.  If so, then what the others wrote is spot on.



Halnex said:


> Should I be interested in a flash ring as well?



Sorry, I'm not familiar with the term "*flash ring*".  There is a term; "*ring flash*" which produces a very distinct lighting effect, but if that is what you mean, then I would suggest you don't get one of those immediately.  Wait until you have more photography under your belt to make sure you really want/need that particular lighting effect.


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## astroNikon

I have a 4 speedlight setup - key, fill, hair, background. Even though I can turn on the "modeling light" feature to see the lighting/shadows ... if I had to do it all over again I'd buy strobes - with one speedlight for those times you need an on camera flash.

Once you start researching larger modifiers you have to look at multiple flash brackets et all .. and the price & convenience quickly shoots up.  So strobes.  Unless you have very limited storage space.


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## Halnex

So everyone suggested I go for the strobes. I guess that settles it.

The only disadvantage that I can see is that I won't be able to use the strobes on an outdoor photoshoot, specially if it's at a remote location with no electricity.

This is the offer I got from my local camera shop.
*- 2 strobes 400W 
- 2 stands air cushion 
- 2 soft-boxes 
- 2 triggers

*Is this good enough for my humble needs?

Stupid question, what are triggers for?


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## Derrel

AC-powered flashes can be powered using something like the Paul C. Buff company's "Vagabond" battery & sine wave inverter, or a similar type of unit manufacturers and sold directly world-wide by Innovatronix.

"Triggers" connect, one to the camera, and one to the flash unit, and send a signal to Fire! that coordinates the firing of the camera shutter and the flash unit; additional units besides the main or primary flash can be fired by optical slave tripper (usually built-in these days), OR by connecting additional triggering units to all additional flashes, and making sure everything is on the same channel or frequency.


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## Halnex

Thanks Derrel and everyone else. You're all so great and helpful.

So this is going to be my next move regarding the lighting kit.
I'm gonna get the strobes first with the full kit: 2 strobes, 2 stands, 2 softboxes and 2 triggers.

Then, in a month or so, I'll get the *Magnum Speedlite MG-68TL *and I'd have a complete and decent beginner kit.


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## table1349

You know there is the best of both world.  At a cost. At only $3,995.00 for the set of two that's a steal. 
B1 Off-Camera Flash


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## Scatterbrained

Halnex said:


> So everyone suggested I go for the strobes. I guess that settles it.
> 
> The only disadvantage that I can see is that I won't be able to use the strobes on an outdoor photoshoot, specially if it's at a remote location with no electricity.
> 
> This is the offer I got from my local camera shop.
> *- 2 strobes 400W
> - 2 stands air cushion
> - 2 soft-boxes
> - 2 triggers
> 
> *Is this good enough for my humble needs?
> 
> Stupid question, what are triggers for?


It's hard to tell whether or not it's a good deal if we don't know what you're getting or how much you're paying for it.   If I said the dealer offered me a great deal on a car for 20k, that wouldn't really say much if you didn't know whether the deal was for an old Kia or a new Mercedes. 

What kind of budget are you working with here?


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## Scatterbrained

Halnex said:


> ...........
> 
> Then, in a month or so, I'll get the *Magnum Speedlite MG-68TL.........*


Save yourself some money and look at the Yongnuo 568 or their upcoming replica of the Canon 600exRT system.


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## Halnex

> What kind of budget are you working with here?


$1000

Should I go for hot or cold strobes?


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## table1349

Halnex said:


> What kind of budget are you working with here?
> 
> 
> 
> $1000
> 
> Should I go for hot or cold strobes?
Click to expand...

I believe you are confused.
How to Choose between Hot Light or Strobes for Your Shoot - Steve's Digicams


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## Halnex

gryphonslair99 said:


> Halnex said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What kind of budget are you working with here?
> 
> 
> 
> $1000
> 
> Should I go for hot or cold strobes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe you are confused.
> How to Choose between Hot Light or Strobes for Your Shoot - Steve's Digicams
Click to expand...


I read a this tutorial here: A Beginner?s Guide to Buying a Photography Lighting Kit | eBay
And they mentioned Hot Lights, Cold Light and Flashes all separate so I assumed that both Hot and Cold are for strobes.

And the place where I'm buying these just told me in an email that the "Strobes are definitely hot"

Yes, I guess I am a bit confused.


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## Designer

Strobes to me are flash, considering the light occurs very rapidly.  "Hot" lights are lights that are on all the time, and they do emit quite a lot of heat.  Also, hot lights, being continuous, are often called "continuous".  Continuous light either needs to be extremely powerful (more heat) to be used for modeling people.  They are o.k. for product photography, where you can have longer shutter openings.  

People cannot hold perfectly still for shutter speeds slower than about 1/60 of a second.  So shooting people you need some kind of flash.  A speedlight type flash would work to add some light, but they are typically not as powerful as studio strobes, so most portrait photographers use the studio strobes.  

If the person on the phone said the "strobes are definitely hot", then I'd ask more questions.


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## Scatterbrained

Halnex said:


> What kind of budget are you working with here?
> 
> 
> 
> $1000
> 
> Should I go for hot or cold strobes?
Click to expand...

  "Hot" is a euphemism for continuous lighting.  Cheap continuous lights aren't worth the money for portrait work, and good continuous lights can cost more then strobes.   Right now you can get a pair of B800s from PCB and a complete Cybercommander system for $900.  Granted that will push your budget a bit but it will give you a solid system with complete wireless control.  More importantly, the Cybercommander has a built in light meter.     I use ABs personally and am quite happy with them.  I use Visico softboxes from OEC Camera on e-bay.   Granted this will put you over your $1000 budget.  

Another option would be a set of Flashpoint monolights.  You can get the 320M lights for $100 each. They're a simple,  stout light that will serve you well, but there is no wireless control. There is however a wireless trigger system for them.  As far as stands, I'd recommend forgoing the cheap black aluminum stands and go straight to C-stands.  You can get a pair of Impact C-Stands for $100 each.  They look just like the Kupos that I use that cost $70 more each.   Adorama has recently started marketing their own line of "Glow" softboxes that look like quite a good deal, especially the "Grande" boxes.   With your budget you can likely do three lights from Adorama with softboxes and triggers and Impact C-stands from B&H.


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## Halnex

It appears that this is the strobe I'm being offered.

VC-400HH - 400ws Studio Strobe Flash Light : Studio Lighting, Photography Studio equipment and accessories

I read the description but I couldn't find anywhere that mentions hot lights or anything of that sort.


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## Scatterbrained

Halnex said:


> It appears that this is the strobe I'm being offered.
> 
> VC-400HH - 400ws Studio Strobe Flash Light : Studio Lighting, Photography Studio equipment and accessories
> 
> I read the description but I couldn't find anywhere that mentions hot lights or anything of that sort.


If someone who is selling you equipment is telling you that "all strobes are hot" I'd find somewhere else to buy my gear.   Yes, all strobes generate heat when they fire off, and they all have modeling lights, which can generate heat (the modeling lights are constant after all), but in photography the term "hot lights" has a very specific meaning.  It refers to _constant_ lighting, not strobes/flashes.


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## table1349

OP...Before you spend money on lighting buy and read this: Light: Science and Magic: An Introduction to Photographic Lighting / Edition 3 by Fil Hunter | 9780240808192 | Paperback | Barnes & Noble


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## Halnex

Scatterbrained said:


> Halnex said:
> 
> 
> 
> It appears that this is the strobe I'm being offered.
> 
> VC-400HH - 400ws Studio Strobe Flash Light : Studio Lighting, Photography Studio equipment and accessories
> 
> I read the description but I couldn't find anywhere that mentions hot lights or anything of that sort.
> 
> 
> 
> If someone who is selling you equipment is telling you that "all strobes are hot" I'd find somewhere else to buy my gear.   Yes, all strobes generate heat when they fire off, and they all have modeling lights, which can generate heat (the modeling lights are constant after all), but in photography the term "hot lights" has a very specific meaning.  It refers to _constant_ lighting, not strobes/flashes.
Click to expand...


I emailed him and asked him to explain what he means by "Strobes are hot" and I told him of what I have learned from the internet about the difference between Hot Lights and Strobes.
I also watched a few youtube videos showcasing the *Visico CV-400HLR, *it's strobe flashes not Hot Lights.





From what I learned from you, it would be a waste to pay for cheap Hot Lights and for the money I'm paying Strobes are a good deal even if the learning curve is steeper. No pain, no glory.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.


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## Derrel

Yes, it's better to buy a reasonably powerful monolight or two, with an umbrella and softbox or two, than it is to fool around with cheap-o fluorescent lights with umbrellas. The unit you linked us to is quite decent, and has a built-in 2.6 gigahertz radio triggering system, and is amply powerful, and uses Bowens S-type accessories, so...it's a decent option for the amount of money I would say. it might in fact be more powerful than you actually need.

I think a fellow wants THREE lights, not just two, and I would say it's worth it to buy three LOWEWR-powered monolights, rather than have two higher-powered units.


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## Scatterbrained

Halnex said:


> Scatterbrained said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Halnex said:
> 
> 
> 
> It appears that this is the strobe I'm being offered.
> 
> VC-400HH - 400ws Studio Strobe Flash Light : Studio Lighting, Photography Studio equipment and accessories
> 
> I read the description but I couldn't find anywhere that mentions hot lights or anything of that sort.
> 
> 
> 
> If someone who is selling you equipment is telling you that "all strobes are hot" I'd find somewhere else to buy my gear.   Yes, all strobes generate heat when they fire off, and they all have modeling lights, which can generate heat (the modeling lights are constant after all), but in photography the term "hot lights" has a very specific meaning.  It refers to _constant_ lighting, not strobes/flashes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I emailed him and asked him to explain what he means by "Strobes are hot" and I told him of what I have learned from the internet about the difference between Hot Lights and Strobes.
> I also watched a few youtube videos showcasing the *Visico CV-400HLR, *it's strobe flashes not Hot Lights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From what I learned from you, it would be a waste to pay for cheap Hot Lights and for the money I'm paying Strobes are a good deal even if the learning curve is steeper. No pain, no glory.
> Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

Essentially.   The thing about the Visico lights is, they look like refinished Mettle strobes for twice the price (at least on the site you listed).  The Adorama are also rebranded Mettle for half the price of the Visico and they have Adorama standing behind them. 

Edit: just checked out some more on them, the digital control is definitely different.   Found another video that shows the remote control for the lights. Nice and simple.  All you'd need then would be a light meter.


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## Halnex

Thank you Derrel and ScatteredBrain, looks like I'm in for the right stuff.

Why would I need an umbrella?
Aren't the 2 softboxes enough?

And if I need to get one, would I need to get it with its own light/stand or do I simply mount it on the softboxe's one?

EDIT: how would a light-meter improve my photography? I've never used one before, don't know what advantages it offers.


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## Derrel

http://neilvn.com/tangents/images/lighting/softbox-vs-umbrella.jpg

Softbox vs. Umbrella: Which One Should You Use? from Adorama Learning Center

Softboxes are fine, but they are not the be-all, end-all of lighting. Sometimes, you want an umbrella, such as when you want to bump up the ambient lighting in a room; an umbrella can easily spread light out, and elevate the ambient by being used as a shoot-through, placed near a wall, and some light going forward, the remainder bouncing back off the wall, and creating a lot of *ambient spill*. In small rooms, an umbrella's spill light can help create both a main light source AND a high degree of fill-in lighting, by using this principle of ambient spill in shoot-through mode. 

There's plenty to search on. Try Google. Softbox vs. Umbrella: Which One Should You Use? from Adorama Learning Center

Knife, spoon, fork. The softbox is the fork. Do you need ONLY a fork? Nothing else except a fork? Whadda' ya' do when they serve soup?


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## Scatterbrained

Halnex said:


> Thank you Derrel and ScatteredBrain, looks like I'm in for the right stuff.
> 
> Why would I need an umbrella?
> Aren't the 2 softboxes enough?
> 
> And if I need to get one, would I need to get it with its own light/stand or do I simply mount it on the softboxe's one?
> 
> EDIT: how would a light-meter improve my photography? I've never used one before, don't know what advantages it offers.



You don't necessarily need an umbrella, but if you buy one it will mount right to the light, just like the softboxes do.   As far as a light meter, it tells you where your exposure is.   If you decide you need f/8, you can use the light meter to make sure your light is at f/8.  It's a lot quicker than "shoot, chimp, adjust, shoot, chimp, adjust"


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## Halnex

Derrel said:


> http://neilvn.com/tangents/images/lighting/softbox-vs-umbrella.jpg
> 
> Softbox vs. Umbrella: Which One Should You Use? from Adorama Learning Center
> 
> Softboxes are fine, but they are not the be-all, end-all of lighting. Sometimes, you want an umbrella, such as when you want to bump up the ambient lighting in a room; an umbrella can easily spread light out, and elevate the ambient by being used as a shoot-through, placed near a wall, and some light going forward, the remainder bouncing back off the wall, and creating a lot of *ambient spill*. In small rooms, an umbrella's spill light can help create both a main light source AND a high degree of fill-in lighting, by using this principle of ambient spill in shoot-through mode.
> 
> There's plenty to search on. Try Google. Softbox vs. Umbrella: Which One Should You Use? from Adorama Learning Center
> 
> Knife, spoon, fork. The softbox is the fork. Do you need ONLY a fork? Nothing else except a fork? Whadda' ya' do when they serve soup?



Thank you!

I did a quick google search and found out that I can buy an umbrella for as little as $50. Still within my budget.
Amazon.com: Umbrellas - Lighting Controls & Modifiers: Electronics

I think I'll be getting one. 2 softboxes and an umbrella. Sounds good.

I'll pass on the light meter at the moment but I will definitely be getting a decent one in the months to come.


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## hombredelmar

gryphonslair99 said:


> You know there is the best of both world.  At a cost. At only $3,995.00 for the set of two that's a steal.
> B1 Off-Camera Flash



Are u promoting  B1 unit?

The person stated that the budget is 800


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## table1349

hombredelmar said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know there is the best of both world.  At a cost. At only $3,995.00 for the set of two that's a steal.
> B1 Off-Camera Flash
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are u promoting  B1 unit?
> 
> The person stated that the budget is 800
Click to expand...

BUY A SENSE OF HUMOR


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## davisphotos

Definitely get an umbrella, you can get a 60" convertible for under $30. And definitely get a system with a modifier attachment that you can readily purchase accessories for, like Bowens. Avoid the weird off brand flashes with their own mounting systems that only let you use their crappy modifiers.


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## Tee

I'm late to the party but since I love studio lighting chat, I'll add in my two cents worth and it's going to be random.  

OP- I don't remember reading what brand of monolights you are getting.  There are a few entry level brands that are good but you don't want to get stuck with crap like Cowboy Studios.  Triggers are used to wirelessly activate your lights from your camera.  You can buy from $15 Chinese knock offs to the reliable Pocket Wizard system.  Just make sure your buying a trigger system that is reliable.  

Three lights is optimal for starters but you can do a heck of a lot with 2 lights and a reflector.  As for me, I'm a soft box guy. 

Having a light meter has many advantages.  For starters, you'll save a ton of time walking back and forth between your lights and shooting position trying to adjust.  Also, you'll learn ratios between lights quicker.  Check out Adorama's youtube page for beginner tutorials on how to use a light meter.  You'll find them very easy to use and you won't ever want to shoot without one.


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## klaplante11

Tee said:


> I'm late to the party but since I love studio lighting chat, I'll add in my two cents worth and it's going to be random.
> 
> OP- I don't remember reading what brand of monolights you are getting.  There are a few entry level brands that are good but you don't want to get stuck with crap like Cowboy Studios.  Triggers are used to wirelessly activate your lights from your camera.  You can buy from $15 Chinese knock offs to the reliable Pocket Wizard system.  Just make sure your buying a trigger system that is reliable.
> 
> Three lights is optimal for starters but you can do a heck of a lot with 2 lights and a reflector.  As for me, I'm a soft box guy.
> 
> Having a light meter has many advantages.  For starters, you'll save a ton of time walking back and forth between your lights and shooting position trying to adjust.  Also, you'll learn ratios between lights quicker.  Check out Adorama's youtube page for beginner tutorials on how to use a light meter.  You'll find them very easy to use and you won't ever want to shoot without one.



THANKS!! This was handy info!!!


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## studio460

Tee said:


> I'm late to the party but since I love studio lighting chat, I'll add in my two cents worth and it's going to be random . . ..



I'm also late to the party, but I also love talking about lighting gear!



Halnex said:


> This is my first time buying a lighting kit and my budget is at 800$.



For first-time strobe set-ups, I always suggest starting with just a _single_ AC monolight, which you can always augment with any existing Speedlights you may already own [note: you can use your SB-800 by setting it to "SU-4" mode to enable its built-in optical trigger--firing an AC monolight remotely will also then trigger your SB-800]. Owning just one strobe at first, teaches you what you can do with only a single source before you move onto more complex set-ups. This also allows you to concentrate on mastering the applications of a single modifier (e.g., octa-type softbox).

I initially bought a Dynalite Uni400 AC/DC monolight as my first strobe, mainly for its long t.5 value (1/675th @ max power), which makes shooting above x-sync possible (i.e., so-called "HyperSync" applications). But, for your purposes, I would recommend Elinchrom's "budget" line of AC monolights. They have built-in RF triggers, and are directly compatible with Elinchrom's excellent line-up of Rotalux modifiers. In fact, other than the long t.5 value, had I to do it again, I probably would've gone with Elinchrom monolights exclusively. They're lightweight, affordable, and have very fast recycle times.

As I said, I already own a couple of Dynalites, but I've been thinking of replacing them with Elinchroms for portrait work. I've recently been doing a bunch of studio-lit headshots (interiors), and my 400Ws Dynalite Uni400 monolight is simply too powerful to enable shooting at larger apertures (numerically, smaller). Even at minimum power (1/8th), shooting through a double-baffled 3' octa, I'm all the way up to f/9 at ISO 50 at 1/250th.

So, for interiors, I'm planning to buy Elinchrom D-Lite 200Ws RX strobes which are only $339.99 each (the 400Ws version is only $355). With a five-stop range, it can dial down to 12Ws. My Dynalite can only go as low as 50Ws (the approximate equivalent of a Speedlight at full-power). Plus, since they come with built-in RF triggers, all you need to buy is a single Elinchrom Skyport transmitter ($112) for wireless strobe triggering. Also, this Elinchrom unit is one of the lightest (2.9 lbs.), fastest-recycling (just 0.8 sec. at full-power), 200 Watt-second monolights on the market. But most importantly, you'll be able to directly mount the excellent array of lightweight, Elinchrom Rotalux softboxes (but only up to the 53" octa) without wasting any money on purchasing expensive speedrings and adapters. Here's just a couple of possible ways to go, ranging from about $800 to about $1,000, with an AC inverter added in for the daylight package:

Single-source, interior set-up, example A:

&#8226; Elinchrom D-Lite 200Ws RX
&#8226; Elinchrom Midi Octa Rotalux
&#8226; Elinchrom Skyport Speed transmitter

Single-source, portable daylight-exterior set-up, example B:

&#8226; Elinchrom D-Lite 400Ws RX
&#8226; Elinchrom Mini Octa Rotalux
&#8226; Elinchrom Skyport Speed transmitter
&#8226; Vagabond Mini-Lithium AC inverter

Note that for on-location, daylight-exteriors, you'd need to buy the Vagabond Mini-Lithium inverter (or, have access to 120VAC), to power the strobe. Elinchrom also offers portable, battery-powered strobes (Ranger Quadras), but they're extremely expensive (if looking for a less expensive portable strobe system, B+H sells the Impact LiteTrek 4.0 for $649.95). If going with one of the Elinchrom set-ups, you can also substitute an umbrella for any of the Rotalux softboxes to save a bit more money. My favorites are Westcott's soft-silver umbrellas, and the super-big, 7' Westcott parabolics (white, shoot-through, or silver), but most any other brand will do fine.


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## studio460

Derrel said:


> . . . I think a fellow wants THREE lights, not just two, and I would say it's worth it to buy three LOWEWR-powered monolights, rather than have two higher-powered units.



Yes, agreed, especially for interiors. The OP could do this with cheaper, no-name strobes (e.g., Impact), since three Elinchroms would put the OP over-budget. FWIW, I light most of my interior portraits (headshots) using "clam-shell" lighting--that's one source above, and another source from below. I've also been wanting to use a larger source for my backlight, since the 1' x 2' softbox I'm using now sometimes misses part of the subject's shoulder. For this lighting set-up, I'm planning to buy the following:

Elinchrom "clam-shell" studio set-up with large backlight:

&#8226; Elinchrom D-Lite 200Ws RX [x3]
&#8226; Elinchrom 39" x 39" Rotalux softbox [x3]
&#8226; Elinchrom Skyport Speed transmitter [x1]

So, three, identically-sized softboxes, all square (since it's an efficient shape for a small studio, yet still a relatively large source). Two of the softboxes will serve as the under/over keys, and the third softbox will be used as a backlight. I had initially gone with Profoto RFi softboxes specifically because fabric eggcrates (softgrids) are available for the entire product line. Note that since all but one or two of the Elinchrom Rotalux softboxes are flush-front, they cannot accommodate a Velcro-attached fabric eggcrate as Profoto RFis, or other major brands' recessed-front sofboxes can. However, unique to the Elinchrom Rotalux product line is their convenient "umbrella-like" design (Buff modifiers also employ a similar design), making set-up/tear-down super-fast and super-easy. This feature alone is a huge selling point for going with all-Elinchrom strobes.


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## studio460

Halnex said:


> Should I be interested in a [ring flash] as well?



Although there are expensive, specialized ring-flash strobes (Paul C. Buff's ABR800 is likely the least expensive at $399), ExpoImaging's _RayFlash_ Speedlight modifier also produces that signature ring-flash look ("shadowless" lighting, circular catchlight, etc.) for a lot less money. It attaches to most on-camera Speedlights, and uses fiber-optic cables to channel your own Speedlight's light into a ring-shaped light source. I have the original model for my Nikon SB-800, and it works as advertised. There is some light-loss, though I don't recall exactly how much (probably 1-2 stops).

RayFlash 2 "Universal" by ExpoImaging at B+H 

Further RayFlash manufacturer information with example photos:


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## Village Idiot

You don't need specific brand battery operated strobes if you want power. You can hook a 2400w/s pack up to a Vagabond Lion battery and use it. I use my Dynalite 800w/s pack on a VML when I'm outside and need power.


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## studio460

Village Idiot said:


> You don't need specific brand battery operated strobes if you want power.



That's true--let me add the Vagabond Mini-Lithium inverter to the post above.


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## studio460

Village Idiot said:


> I use my Dynalite 800w/s pack on a VML when I'm outside and need power.



I have two dead VML batteries that are only about two years old. How long are yours lasting? The first thing I look at when considering any battery-powered lighting system is the cost of replacement batteries (though sometimes the OEM battery is difficult to identify/source). I also look at the total amp-hour rating as a rough estimate of capacity. The Impact LiteTrek 4.0 is a 400Ws portable strobe system which currently sells for $649, and uses a 7.2 amp-hour battery (but, I can't identify an OEM replacement battery for it). Although, the new Godox Xenergizer portable 600Ws unit (poor man's Ranger Quadra) looks like the better buy, and may be worth looking into. Note that certain OEM replacements can often be significantly less expensive than buying the flash manufacturer's re-branded battery. Here's some battery replacement costs for some common portable strobe inverter/battery packs:

&#8226; Vagabond Mini-Lithium VMB8.8A: 14.8V; 8.8 amp-hours; 130 Watt-hours $89.
&#8226; Vagabond Lithium Extreme VLX: 25.6V; 6.2 amp-hours; 158.7 Watt-hours: $159.
&#8226; Godox Xenergizer: 12.8V; 8 amp-hours: $179.
&#8226; Quantum Turbo high-voltage DC power pack (SLA-based): Power-Sonic PS-832 [OEM replacement]; 8V; 3.2 amp-hours: $20.
&#8226; Impact LiteTrek: 12V; 7.2 amp-hours: $174.95.
&#8226; Bowens TravelPak: Yuasa (or OEM equivalent) NP7-12; 12V; 7.2 amp-hours: $15 (unconfirmed).
&#8226; Dynalite XP-1100 AC inverter (SLA-based): Enersys PC-680 [OEM replacement]; 12V; 16 amp-hours: $120.


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## studio460

studio460 said:


> My favorites are Westcott's soft-silver umbrellas, and the super-big, 7' Westcott parabolics (white, shoot-through, or silver), but most any other brand will do fine.



I just found one of my Westcott 7' silver parabolic umbrella test shots--shot with a single strobe:


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## studio460

Hey, thanks for the two thumbs-up, Derrel!


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## studio460

Halnex said:


> Should I go with Flash or Strobes?



First of all, I didn't realize until now that this thread is nearly two months old! But, just in case the OP is still around (and, for other readers' benefit), I wanted to better answer the _original_ question: i.e., Speedlights vs. AC monolights, since I'm actually a huge proponent of _hybrid_ Speedlight/monolight set-ups.

Speedlight pros:

&#8226; TTL-compatible.
&#8226; Built-in remote control via proprietary systems (e.g., Nikon, Canon, Sony).
&#8226; Very compact.
&#8226; Very lightweight.
&#8226; Extremely portable.
&#8226; Doesn't require AC power.

Speedlight cons:

&#8226; Expensive (when compared Watt-for-Watt to AC monolights).
&#8226; Long recycle times at higher power settings (e.g., 8 sec. at max power).
&#8226; Requires batteries.
&#8226; More limited selection of modifiers.
&#8226; Unable to power via 120VAC [possible with a Tronix SpeedFire].


AC monolight pros:

&#8226; Very high light output (e.g., up to 12x the output of a typical Speedlight).
&#8226; Fast recycle time (1-2 seconds).
&#8226; Large selection of available modifiers.

AC monolight cons:

&#8226; No TTL--full-manual operation only [except for the ultra-pricey, DC-powered, Profoto B1].
&#8226; Remote triggering capability requires additonal purchase(s).
&#8226; Requires 120VAC or AC inverter.
&#8226; Heavy (e.g., 3-8 lbs.).
&#8226; Bulky.


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## studio460

Hybrid Speedlight/AC monolight approach:

So here's the part about my "hybrid" Speedlight/monolight approach. Now, I just said that I was planning to buy three Elinchrom D-Lite 200Ws strobes for my clamshell portraiture set-up. But, I just realized that my current set-up works fine--I just didn't like constantly having to replace the batteries powering my Speedlights during long shoots.

Then I remembered hearing about the Tronix SpeedFire power supplies I mentioned above, which would completely eliminate the Quantum Turbos. Yet, I would still retain Turbo-like recycle times from the high-voltage Tronix power supplies. The reason I want to keep using Speedlights instead of monolights is that they're _much_ lighter. Everything's mounted on booms, so it's hard enough to raise these into position with just the weight of the boom and modifiers, let alone adding a heavy monolight.

Also, recycle time isn't an issue (the reason I was using the Turbos), because the Tronix units plug into the same high-voltage input on my SB-800s, supplying the same power, and my Speedlights' output is fine for these types of ancillary applications. So, I didn't realize this at first, but the Tronix units are a really simple solution (albeit, a bit pricey) which enables me to use Speedlights like studio strobes. Here's my current clamshell lighting set-up [all triggered by PocketWizard TT5/PlusX transceivers]:

&#8226; Nikon SB-800 + Quantum Turbo + Nikon dome diffuser [background light].
&#8226; Nikon SB-800 + Quantum Turbo + Profoto RFi 1' x 1.3' gridded softbox [backlight].
&#8226; Quantum Qflash Model T + Quantum Turbo + 39" x 39" Westcott 1.25-stop diffusion panel [lower clamshell key].
&#8226; Dynalite Uni400 400Ws AC monolight + Profoto RFi 3' octa [upper clamshell key].

Now, since my biggest remaining issue is that my Dynalite puts out too much light, I may now go with a Paul C. Buff, Einstein E640 AC monolight instead, to replace it, primarily due to the E640's unique ability to dial its power all the way down to just 2.5Ws. Plus, the E640s accept PocketWizard's PowerMC2 receiver, so I'll be able to trigger it with the on-camera PocketWizard TT1 transmitters I already own. So here's what I'm thinking now:

&#8226; Nikon SB-800 + Tronix Speedfire + Nikon dome diffuser [background light].
&#8226; Nikon SB-800 + Tronix Speedfire + Profoto RFi 1' x 1.3' gridded softbox [backlight].
&#8226; Quantum Qflash Model T + TurboAC + 39" x 39" Westcott 1.25-stop diffusion panel [lower clamshell key].
&#8226; Einstein E640 + PowerMC2 + Kacey Eli adapter + 39" x 39" Elinchrom Rotalux softbox [upper clamshell key].


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## studio460

studio460 said:


> &#8226; Einstein E640 + PowerMC2 + Kacey Eli adapter + 39" x 39" Elinchrom Rotalux softbox [upper clamshell key].



Nevermind! I think I'm going with the Bowens Gemini 250R now instead. Why? Mainly because of Bowens' unique yoke design, making boom-mounting a breeze. All of my boom-mounted Dynalites have to be hung _upside-down._ A real usability-killer. I also wanted to reduce the number of variables in my system, and have decided to only buy monolights with integrated PocketWizard receivers from now on--there's just too many things to check on shoots--this eliminates one more variable.

Bowens Gemini 250R; $499.95:

&#8226; Unique side-yoke mount easily accommodates inverted attachment to a boom, maintaining correct orientation of all the unit's controls.
&#8226; Available PocketWizard receiver port for the BowensGEM.
&#8226; 7.5-250Ws power range.
&#8226; 1.0-second recycle at full-power.
&#8226; Large, easily-readable LED power-level display.
&#8226; Dual-knob power-level controls, settable in both full-stops, and tenths-of-a-stop.

The Einstein E640, while feature-rich, with excellent specs, I think has a few too many idiosyncracies. Although true of most other monolights as well, boom-mounting an E640 would render all of its controls upside-down, which would be particularly user-unfriendly since all the E640's info is displayed on its LCD screen. Solving this problem requires a special project requiring some drilling, and a special speedring (one only available from OEC Camera on eBay). Also, the E640's touch-screen interface has been reported to be a bit touchy. Bowens' large, mechanical rotary knobs, plus its large LED power-level display makes power-level adjustments quick and easy (the thing you change the most on a monolight).

However, unlike the PocketWizard PowerMC2 receiver for the E640, full-HyperSync benefits are _not_ supported by the PocketWizard BowensGEM receiver. Also, the Bowens, while very sturdily built, weighs in a bit heavy at 6.4 lbs., about twice the weight of my Dynalite strobes. It seems that every system has its trade-offs (some of them, significant). So, choosing the "best" monolight for your particular needs isn't necessarily a cut-and-dried process. Here's my revised set of criteria for purchasing a new monolight for my main portrait key:

&#8226; Integrated PocketWizard-support.
&#8226; Wide-ranging power control.
&#8226; Ease of operation.
&#8226; Inter-operability of preferred modifiers (e.g., Elinchrom Rotalux).
&#8226; Ability to top-mount from a boom.
&#8226; Lightweight.

Looks like I lose on the weight issue with the Bowens unit, but get almost everything else.


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## Derrel

I've been enjoying your posts lately. I think maybe I will tackle re-celling my Quantum Turbo, based on info I gleaned from your post above. ABout the Uni Jr 400...it it's too powerful, why not fit it with some neutral density material, rather than buy a whole new $499 monolight? And speaking of which...the new light is listed as 250 Watt-seconds, the Uni-Jr is 320 I read on their site, so, that's really NOT than much lower in power, although I see the new Bowens does dial all the way down to 7.5 Watt-seconds, which is a very nice, tiny amount of light. And it does have the integrated PW, so that's anoher plus. Anyway, just wanted to say I love to read peoples' "thinking out loud" kind of posts!


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## studio460

I'm glad you're enjoying them! I sort of use these opportunites to sort out my own thinking on new gear. The Dynalites are 320Ws when used in DC-mode, but 400Ws when powered by AC. I'll re-post a quick tutorial on the Quantum Turbo that I wrote on another site . . .


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## studio460

*WARNING--RISK OF ELECTROCUTION--PROCEED ONLY IF EXPERIENCED WORKING WITH HIGH-VOLTAGE ELECTRONICS:*

If you own a Quantum Turbo, replacement batteries only cost between $16-$20 each. If you have an older Turbo, and it isn't recycling like it used to, replacing the battery will make it recycle like new. To replace, remove the three screws on the exterior of the leather case, and carefully pull the electronics pack from the top. Pull the spade connectors off the terminals using a pair of insulated needle-nose pliers. WARNING! High-voltage inside! Be careful not to touch any conductors! If you don't feel up to it, a local BatteriesPlus will do the replacement for you at no charge if you buy the batteries there.


Quantum Turbo replacement battery: Power-Sonic PS-832 8V 3.2AH SLA with F1 terminals.


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## Derrel

Yeah, I am gonna order a battery for my old Turbo. I bought it in '86, and t was dead in 1992. Oddly, I bought my Quantum Battery 1 the year before,in 1985, and it is STILL working on the original lead acid cell, even with about a decade's worth of neglect over fifteen years ago...I have no idea how that is even possible.


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## studio460

studio460 said:


> . . . I think I'm going with the Bowens Gemini 250R now instead. Why? Mainly because of Bowens' unique yoke design, making boom-mounting a breeze. All of my boom-mounted Dynalites have to be hung _upside-down._



Here's a picture of my Dynalite Uni400 Jr./PlusX trigger, mounted upside-down on a Matthews boom:


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## studio460

Derrel said:


> About the Uni Jr 400...it it's too powerful, why not fit it with some neutral density material, rather than buy a whole new $499 monolight?


Yeah, I've done that in the past. In the meantime,  I'm going to try to order another diffuser and baffle from Profoto to knock it down without having to fuss with gel and C-47s. What I was attempting to do in this whole exercise was to simplify my set-up, and reduce the number of components (i.e., potential "failure points"), so if I forget to change batteries in one trigger, or forget to bring some ND, the shoots still works. I'm still mulling this over since there's so many trade-offs to consider. The Einstein E640's extremely wide power range is _very_ tempting, yet the Elinchom RX is nice because the Rotalux modifiers are so quick and easy to use. The Bowens makes inverted-mounting a breeze, and has excellent power controls . . . decision, decisions.


*AC monolight comparison:*


Dynalite Uni400:

&#8226; Minimum power setting: 50Ws.
&#8226; No integrated PocketWizard solution.
&#8226; Lightweight: 3.6 lbs.
&#8226; Fast recycle: 1.4 sec.
&#8226; t=0.5: 1/675th at max power.
&#8226; Compact and robust build quality.

Einstein E640:

&#8226; Minimum power setting: 2.5Ws
&#8226; Available integrated PocketWizard receiver, PowerMC2 (supports HyperSync).
&#8226; Moderately lightweight: 4.3 lbs.
&#8226; Fast recycle: 1.7 sec.
&#8226; t=0.5: 1/588th at max power [plus, pre-optimized HyperSync settings in PocketWizard firmware].
&#8226; Widest power-range available: 2.5-600Ws
&#8226; Difficult to use inverted.


Bowens Gemini 250R:

&#8226; Minimum power setting: 7.5Ws.
&#8226; Available integrated PocketWizard receiver, GEM (though, HyperSync is not supported).
&#8226; Moderately heavy: 6.4 lbs.
&#8226; Fast recycle: 1.0 sec.
&#8226; t=0.5 value: 1/1,100th at max power.
&#8226; Side-mounted yoke permits inverted-mounting without inverting controls.
&#8226; Easy-to-use dual power controls, plus large LED power-level display.
&#8226; Robust steel housing.
&#8226; Bulky (15" in length).


Elinchrom D-Lite 200RX:

&#8226; Minimum power setting: 12Ws.
&#8226; No integrated PocketWizard solution.
&#8226; Very lightweight: 2.9 lbs.
&#8226; Fast recycle: 0.8 sec.
&#8226; t=0.5 value: 1/1,200th.
&#8226; Directly mounts Elinchrom Rotalux modifiers (up to 53") with no additional speedring required.
&#8226; Compact form factor.
&#8226; Less-robust plastic construction.


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## Derrel

I use Speedotron Brown and Black line, and use Manfrotto boom arms, so I can put the mounting spigots into the boom arm either "on the pointy end-part", or "cross-shaft" mounted...maybe I am dense, but I do not quite understand why the Uni Jr. needs to be mounted upside-down...I have never had to mount a flash head upside down. What's the issue that necessitates this upside-down mounting?

And yeah, 50 W-s minimum....man...that's a lot of light sometimes. I like about 15 to 25 Watt-second for hair and rim lights in a typical 4-light setup. I am used to 15 W-s actually as my low-end. With an 11.5-inch 50 degree refelctor with silver interior, that necessitates a grid AND a mylar diffuser when aimed from around back, so, yeah, 50 W-s would be a PITA as the bottom end...


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## studio460

Derrel said:


> I use Speedotron Brown and Black line, and use Manfrotto boom arms, so I can put the mounting spigots into the boom arm either "on the pointy end-part", or "cross-shaft" mounted...maybe I am dense, but I do not quite understand why the Uni Jr. needs to be mounted upside-down...I have never had to mount a flash head upside down. What's the issue that necessitates this upside-down mounting?



Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but top-hung seems to be the method which "spins" the least. If I mount the Dynalite directly onto the boom's 5/8" spud (oriented horizontally), it simply won't hold any tilt-angle (the Dynalite's baby screw just won't tighten with enough tension). Although I think I know what you mean by "cross-shaft," do you have a picture you can post of that? Thanks!


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## Derrel

Okay, I know what you mean that the screw will not tighten with enough tension to hold the light. Maybe you could wrap some tape around the spud? That can work on a small screw that does not have a lot of bite. Plain masking tape has worked for me on that. Two or three wraps of m asking tape allows a weakish screw to bite down through the layers and kinda' "stick" in one spot. I had some old umbrella adapters that had the problem of weak screws that would not hold tension, so the tape-wrap on the spuds (spigots) worked great. The Speedo screws have a lot of gripping power, but the Bogen/Manfrotto boom's end allows longitudinal axis mounting of the spud (spigot) or cross-axis or "anti-twisting" mounting option, or "on top" or "on the bottom:" mounting of the spud (spigot).


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## studio460

Thanks for posting those! Yeah, the baby spud on my Matthews boom doesn't articulate like that. Cool!


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## studio460

Derrel said:


> And yeah, 50 W-s minimum....man...that's a lot of light sometimes. I like about 15 to 25 Watt-second for hair and rim lights in a typical 4-light setup. I am used to 15 W-s actually as my low-end. With an 11.5-inch 50 degree refelctor with silver interior, that necessitates a grid AND a mylar diffuser when aimed from around back, so, yeah, 50 W-s would be a PITA as the bottom end...



Yeah, now that I think about it, I actually _don't_ need an AC monolight, per se, for my portrait key--I just need an AC-powered Speedlight. The last headshots I did were at f/9, where f/5.6 would've been fine. So, I only need just over a stop less light output at the distances I'm positioning my upper-key. If my Dynalite's 1/8-power setting is really putting out 50Ws, then all my SB-800 has to deliver is the equivalent of about 20Ws (though, Watt-second ratings aren't directly comparable between Speedlights and monolights). Certainly, some tests are in order, but all I think I need to do is order three Tronix SpeedFire AC power supplies to solve this "too much light" issue.


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## studio460

*100% Nikon Speedlight portrait set-up*:

Well, for all you "strobist" fans, on second thought, I think I may actually build my headshot lighting set-up with _all_ Speedlights. My current portrait set-up is for clamshell lighting, which I've outlined previously. I'll be replacing my main key, a 400Ws AC monolight, with an AC-powered Nikon SB-800 Speedlight. Previously, I was using a Quantum Model T through a 4' x 4' silk for the lower-key (which works great), but I'll be replacing that as well with another Nikon SB-800 for the purposes of this test. Heck, I may even be able to get away with triggering everything via CLS instead of PocketWizard TT5s, using my Nikon SU-800 CLS commander. I'm fully aware of CLS' limitations, but in a controlled studio environment, it _should_ work (though, it may be tricky to get the lower-key and backlight to "see" the SU-800). Yeah, I'm liking this idea . . .

&#8226; Nikon SU-800 CLS Commander [on-camera, hot-shoe mounted].
&#8226; Nikon SB-800 + SpeedFire + Profoto RFi 3' octa [upper-key].
&#8226; Nikon SB-800 + SpeedFire + 4' x 4' Polysilk [lower-key].
&#8226; Nikon SB-800 + SpeedFire + Profoto 1' x 1.3' gridded softbox [subject backlight].
&#8226; Nikon SB-800 + SpeedFire + Nikon diffusion dome [background light].

Benefits:

&#8226; Tronix AC power supplies eliminate Speedlight battery changes.
&#8226; Lightweight Speedlights make boom-hung sources easier to position.
&#8226; Fewer total system components.
&#8226; No PocketWizard transceiver batteries to change/firmware/switches to set.
&#8226; No PocketWizard "boot-sequence" to follow.
&#8226; No PocketWizard sync cables to connect.
&#8226; CR123s are the only "weird" batteries I'll have to carry.


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## studio460

Here's a shot using my original Dynalite/Speedlight/PW clamshell set-up:





Nikon D800E + Sigma 150mm f/2.8 OS.


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## studio460

studio460 said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> 
> About the Uni Jr 400...it it's too powerful, why not fit it with some neutral density material, rather than buy a whole new $499 monolight?
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I've done that in the past. In the meantime,  I'm going to try to order another diffuser and baffle from Profoto to knock it down without having to fuss with gel and C-47s.
Click to expand...


I just called Profoto US (New Jersey) at 973-822-1300, and I _am_ able to order a replacement baffle and front-diffuser for my Profoto RFi 3' octa. It's called a "spare diffuser kit" (#464272), and you get both the baffle and the front-diffuser for only $21.61. There's no online ordering--you have to e-mail a parts request to: us-orders@profoto.com.

The recessed Velcro strip on the front of the octa is fairly wide, and the Velcro edge of the diffuser is fairly thin, so I should be able to attach a double-layer of diffusers onto the octa's front. I think the interior baffle uses small steel clips to attach, so I should be able to add a second baffle there as well. Using both, I may be able to knock my Dynalite down by perhaps two stops.


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## studio460

In any case, just to sum up, what I attempted to show here is that you have a number of ways you can go when building your first lighting kit: Speedlights, monolights, or a combination of both (although, I didn't discuss used head-and-pack systems, which can often be found at significant discount). My first portrait lighting set-up consisted of just two Nikon Speedlights, an SB-800/SB-600, and a cheap umbrella. Before I invested in RF triggers, I fired everything via CLS using a Nikon SU-800 commander. For the shot below, I used a $27 Photoflex 45" umbrella for the SB-800, and aimed my SB-600 directly at the wall with a blue gel on it:


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## studio460

*Hybrid Elinchrom + **Nikon Speedlight **set-up v2.0:*

Well, I did want to try going 100%-Speedlghts/SpeedFires for simplicity's sake, but I found that I just like Elinchrom modifiers too much. After trying to figure out the exact Kacey Enterprises' adapter components I would need, just to be able to mount Elinchrom Rotalux modifiers onto a Speedlight, I've finally decided that the easiest way to enable me to use Elinchrom softboxes is to just buy Elinchrom strobes.

Here's the new hybrid set-up:

 Elinchrom D-Lite 200RX + 39" x 39" Rotalux + PlusX [upper-key].
 Elinchrom D-Lite 200RX + 26" x 26" Rotalux + 39" x 39" 1.25-stop ScrimJim diffuser + PlusX [lower-key].
 Nikon SB-800 + SpeedFire + Profoto 1' x 1.3' gridded softbox + Flex TT5 [subject backlight].
 Nikon SB-800 + SpeedFire + Nikon diffusion dome + Flex TT5 [background light].

Total PocketWizard RF triggers required:

 Flex TT1 transmitters [x1 per body].
 Flex TT5 transceivers [x2]
 PlusX transceivers [x2]


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## Scatterbrained

studio460 said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> 
> I use Speedotron Brown and Black line, and use Manfrotto boom arms, so I can put the mounting spigots into the boom arm either "on the pointy end-part", or "cross-shaft" mounted...maybe I am dense, but I do not quite understand why the Uni Jr. needs to be mounted upside-down...I have never had to mount a flash head upside down. What's the issue that necessitates this upside-down mounting?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but top-hung seems to be the method which "spins" the least. If I mount the Dynalite directly onto the boom's 5/8" spud (oriented horizontally), it simply won't hold any tilt-angle (the Dynalite's baby screw just won't tighten with enough tension). Although I think I know what you mean by "cross-shaft," do you have a picture you can post of that? Thanks!
Click to expand...

Rather than using the spigot mount to mount the griphead to the boom, use the actual clamping part; then just drop the baby pin through the spud mount hole.  This gives you a lot more clamping force on the boom arm to keep the light from spinning so you don't have to hang it straight down.    Still doesn't eliminate the need for a grip head on the end however.


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## studio460

Yes, that's actually a more secure way to mount the light--thanks for the suggestion. Actually, the grip-head's baby receiver does have enough bite to hold without tilting, but the Dynalite baby-receiver knob can't tighten enough to stop it from spinning (if used without a grip head), a common problem with most strobe manufacturer's baby receivers. For larger lights, with even bigger modifiers, I have to use a Chimera stand adapter [#3700 pictured]:






Chimera 3700 stand adapter + Chimera QR speedring for Speedotron monolights (grip head not included).


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## studio460

[Scatterbrained: Yours are probably _the_ best Disneyworld images I've ever seen! Excellent work!]


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