# Go legit with business?



## roadkill (Aug 1, 2008)

I get paid occasionally for simple shoots (portraits etc).  I am considering getting a tax id number and making it a business (in the eyes of the gov.)  Any ideas pro and con wise?  I thought by doing so I could get a line ofcredit for the business and invest in some equipment as well as have the name legally trademarked as mine.


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## Alpha (Aug 1, 2008)

I would start out the simplest way possible. You'll create a lot of possibly unnecessary hassle setting up a proper business. 

The easiest way to get started is to register yourself as a sole proprietor, which will allow you to use your SS# as an EIN. Then use a PayPal account for credit card transactions.

One of the most common mistakes people make in starting a business is trying to write everything off as a business expense. Unless you have a compelling need for a business account at a commercial bank I would stay the hell away. Foot the bill with your own money until you develop a serious, legitimate need to operate like a full business. Tax write-offs and the like are facts of life for the business side of photography. But ask any venture capitalist or business accountant and they'll tell you that trying to write everything off when you don't need to will seriously stifle the growth of any business.

Just my two cents.


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## visualpoetry (Aug 1, 2008)

My business has resently taken off and I am in the same boat.. wondering how to make it official. I've leared a few things. I filed for a DBA (doing business as) just this week. I debated filing for an LLC. If you don't know, the difference is that if your company goes bankrupt or you get sued, the LLC takes the fall.. not you. Your credit is still crispy clean. So, in all reality.. an LLC is best. BUT, it costs more (obviously) than a DBA does. My DBA was only $124 from legalzoom.com. I have decided against getting a tax ID number. I can't imagine the govt taking half my earnings! At least not yet. I'd rather work low key and enjoy the entire paycheck. 

If you need a more detailed answer, it may be worth sitting down with an attorney over. I called into a firm and asked questions and that's how I learned about an LLC.


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## Alpha (Aug 1, 2008)

Don't count on being able to get away with taking clients under the table. As soon as they start deducting your shoots from _their_ taxes, you're an audit waiting to happen.


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## roadkill (Aug 2, 2008)

thanks. never heard of a dba. dont know if it applies here in ga but I'll look into it.


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## visualpoetry (Aug 4, 2008)

They can write off what they pay me for wedding photos?? How so? I could understand if they were a company or group.. but not for weddings. I could be wrong.. please educate me.


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## Alpha (Aug 4, 2008)

I'm not really comfortable giving advice on tax evasion, especially not in public. It's not exactly a forte of mine. 

But I will say the following. If you register a business, not paying taxes on business income is a stupid move.


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## maytay20 (Aug 4, 2008)

Alpha said:


> I would start out the simplest way possible. You'll create a lot of possibly unnecessary hassle setting up a proper business.
> 
> The easiest way to get started is to register yourself as a sole proprietor, which will allow you to use your SS# as an EIN. Then use a PayPal account for credit card transactions.
> 
> ...


 Just be aware doing it this way also puts 100% of the liability on *YOU*.  If you have a LLC or a C corp and some one sues you for the something your business may be gone but you personally are still ok.  Meaning a sole proprietor you get sued anything of value you own is fare game.  I just filed my LLC papers for $50. through my state and I know if someone sued me they could get to my business items but not to my personal. If I were you go to your local library and read up on LLC's and C Corps.  Also The rich dad series is a huge help on this.  And yes the minute the IRS or state finds out you are doing this under the table they will come knocking.


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## sperry (Aug 4, 2008)

i hired a local lawyer to take care of everything for setting up my S corp. it was a little more expensive than doing it online, but i like supporting local small businesses. i feel much better knowing everything is legit and businesslike from the ground up.


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## Alpha (Aug 4, 2008)

I don't really see the benefit of the s-corp over LLC for such a small venture. Both allow you to avoid the double tax, no?


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## sperry (Aug 4, 2008)

yes. 

they both allow 'pass-thru' income for the owners. hence, avoiding being double-taxed. but if you look a little closer, that is not the only benefit you will see.

in general an S corp is a little more complicated and restrictive in how profits are distributed to it's owners. however, according to my lawyer this is the preferred set up as an S corp allows more flexibility in employment tax savings based on how you pay yourself as an owner-employee. 

basically, you can pay yourself a [reasonable] salary as an employee and be taxed on it. then, you have the flexibility to give yourself an additional distribution that is not taxed with employment tax.

a bit more paperwork and guidelines to follow, but not without benefit.


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## roadkill (Aug 4, 2008)

LLC, C corp, S corp... ok. So would there be any benefit in a sole proprietership?  Less liability makes sense to me.  Guess I'll try to find an accountant or a lawyer.


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## flipsidestudio (Aug 4, 2008)

roadkill said:


> LLC, C corp, S corp... ok. So would there be any benefit in a sole proprietership?  Less liability makes sense to me.  Guess I'll try to find an accountant or a lawyer.


There's not really a benefit to a sole proprietorship other than it's slightly cheaper and easier to file for.  As far as filing taxes goes, with an LLC owned by a single member you file taxes the same way as you would a sole proprietorship,  That was my main concern when looking into all these things.  I'm currently in the process of registering everything.

Keep in mind that it's not free to do any of this and you will have to do some research if you want to save money by not hiring a lawyer to help you.  

Also, I was told that if you get a business credit card it will still affect your credit if you don't pay it off.  Not sure on the accuracy on that though.

If you're doing enough photography that you're considering registering for a company name and everything you should definitely be thinking about paying taxes on your income.

Oh yes, one cool tip I picked up in talking with people is to buy equipment yourself, not as your business so that you own it and then lease it to your business.  The benefit to this is that you make some money off of your equipment and in the event that you are sued the equipment can't be considered the business's property.  You can't write the equipment off this way though.


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## sperry (Aug 5, 2008)

> Also, I was told that if you get a business credit card it will still affect your credit if you don't pay it off. Not sure on the accuracy on that though.


 
yeah, i'm pretty sure you are correct. when i set up my business checking account the bank ran credit reports on my personaly credit. i don't have a business credit card, but i'm assuming they would have run my personal credit on that too.


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## flipsidestudio (Aug 6, 2008)

sperry said:


> yeah, i'm pretty sure you are correct. when i set up my business checking account the bank ran credit reports on my personaly credit. i don't have a business credit card, but i'm assuming they would have run my personal credit on that too.


Yep, that sounds right to me.  I mean it's not like they're going to give you credit without anyone being liable.


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## visualpoetry (Aug 6, 2008)

Alpha said:


> I'm not really comfortable giving advice on tax evasion, especially not in public. It's not exactly a forte of mine.
> 
> But I will say the following. If you register a business, not paying taxes on business income is a stupid move.


 
I am new to this... JUST filed for my DBA last week. I don't really know much about the situation and the entire purpose for me joining TPF is learning. I'm going to start a new thread to discuss this topic.


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