# Unlimited copyright for a non profit org?



## Photomel (Jun 26, 2014)

This nonprofit organization I'm working with has an event every year for a fundraiser. is it wise or feasible to give them unlimited copyright on the photos for this event as they're requesting? I wanted to do a one-year limit on the copyright for their website social media and newsletter because they're having a new event every year, shouldn't have to have on Photos there to be older


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## ronlane (Jun 26, 2014)

first, I'm not a lawyer and I don't want to play one on here or anywhere else.

Can you give more information about what you mean by "working with"? This could be a key to determining the licensing and copyrights. If you are their employee, then it is possible that the images are theirs anyway.

Others will chime in on this one, I am sure.


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## Photomel (Jun 26, 2014)

ronlane said:


> first, I'm not a lawyer and I don't want to play one on here or anywhere else.
> 
> Can you give more information about what you mean by "working with"? This could be a key to determining the licensing and copyrights. If you are their employee, then it is possible that the images are theirs anyway.
> 
> Others will chime in on this one, I am sure.



this charity group is looking to hire me for their fundraiser event. I gave them a contract of what the terms were and I have my copyright information in there that theyvcan go ahead and use images on their website social media and their newsletter for one year. I am not there employer this is the one time thing.


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## ronlane (Jun 26, 2014)

Oh Okay, I got it now. Honestly, I would think that a one year copyright like you mention is a fair thing to do. Let them tell you if they want more than that, if so, they can pay for it. Give them a "renewal" option at the end of the first year, or offer a one year and a two year option.


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## Photomel (Jun 26, 2014)

I like that option of a renewal. This is my first year working with them and I don't know what other photographers have done in the past for them but it sounds like they gave them the world. I know I just need to stand my ground on this but I really would like to get rehired next year as well. Thank you very much for your input.


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## tirediron (Jun 26, 2014)

Stop!  

Pay attention this way!

Take 30 minutes and understand the difference between copyright and licensing.  What you want to do is license the use of the images to the organization.  You cannot give away part of your copyright for a period of time, but you can license the use of those images for that time.


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## wyogirl (Jun 26, 2014)

What Tirediron says is true.  You are giving them a use license.  If you give them copyright, then its theirs and not yours anymore.

Now, I'm not telling you what to do but as a person who used to hire photographers to shoot events and take marketing pictures... If I had to pay you to shoot, pay for licensing and then pay to renew licensing... well there are just too many people who would do it for a one time fee to even bother with hiring you.

Charge a decent amount up front.  You aren't going to do anything else with these images later on.  If they have to pay to renew them then they probably just wont use them again, or you.  Organizations like to have photos as a record of events.  They won't want to renew that use license every year.

Just my opinion though.


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## tirediron (Jun 26, 2014)

wyogirl said:


> What Tirediron says is true. You are giving them a use license. If you give them copyright, then its theirs and not yours anymore.
> 
> Now, I'm not telling you what to do but as a person who used to hire photographers to shoot events and take marketing pictures... If I had to pay you to shoot, pay for licensing and then pay to renew licensing... well there are just too many people who would do it for a one time fee to even bother with hiring you.
> 
> ...


Pretty much this, exactly.  You're not working for Ford or KPMG, in fact in my experience getting paid at all by a charity is pretty unusal these days, and if you make it too expensive or difficult, they're going to walk away.  Personally, I don't think it hurts to give charities a break...  (Good kharma points and all), and it won't hurt you with other clients because you can tell them that the reason XYZ got such a break was because they were a charity.


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## KmH (Jun 26, 2014)

A use license is a copyright rental/lease agreement and does indeed let you giveaway usage of your copyright.
The use license can be exclusive or non-exclusive

A use license can limit what media an image is used, the size of the image, and the use license can limit the length of time of the usage.


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## vfotog (Jun 27, 2014)

KmH said:


> A use license is a copyright rental/lease agreement and does indeed let you giveaway usage of your copyright.
> The use license can be exclusive or non-exclusive
> 
> A use license can limit what media an image is used, the size of the image, and the use license can limit the length of time of the usage.



it seems like you're trying to muddy the waters and there's no need. Clearly the OP was confusing licensing with copyright. And even your posts makes it clear this is about usage, not copyright. The OP shouldn't be writing contracts without understanding terms. Photomel, I wouldn't get too greedy. Charities get by because people believe in and support them. That frequently means donating money but also donating services. If they can get a photographer who will work cheaper or even volunteer entirely because of the non-prof's good works, they will be hard-pressed to hire you. Particularly if you ask a lot. Remember, one of the markers of a good charity is the ratio of money spent on expenses as opposed to services provided. Too much money spent on admin and overhead means less on services provided and therefore a lower rating. Part of the benefit of doing non-profit work isn't money but it can help PR wise as it reflects that you are community-minded and compassionate. I'm not a big believer in free work, but charity work is different.


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## vintagesnaps (Jun 27, 2014)

You can find info. on licensing on ASMP's website or try other photographers organizations. Typically you might license usage for example for a certain amount for a year, then the payment would be less each successive year the image is used/licensed. If you choose to donate your time and photos to a charitable cause that would seem to be your choice. If employed by a nonprofit (as well as by a for profit business) and part of your job is to take photos at events I think that's a work for hire situation.


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## imagemaker46 (Jun 27, 2014)

Tirediron is correct, licence for one year.

Personally I don't give anything to "non-profit" organizations.  Someone is getting paid to work there, and I'm a for-profit photographer.  I give photos away and my time for some groups. Non-profit, I've heard that line way too many times.


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## andywag (Jun 30, 2014)

KmH said:


> A use license is a copyright rental/lease agreement and does indeed let you giveaway usage of your copyright.



NO it's not.


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## vfotog (Jun 30, 2014)

imagemaker46 said:


> Tirediron is correct, licence for one year.
> 
> Personally I don't give anything to "non-profit" organizations.  Someone is getting paid to work there, and I'm a for-profit photographer.  I give photos away and my time for some groups. Non-profit, I've heard that line way too many times.



It's a shame that some folks don't believe in or want to do good works but fortunately not everyone feels that way. It's really not too hard to find out whether a charity is legit or not. And with the legitimate non-profits, the less they spend on expenses and overhead, the more they have to spend on their charitable activities.


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## MidnightUK (Jul 1, 2014)

Offer them 18 month licences if they are worried about updating their web site in time.  I would also restrict any licence however long it is, to make sure they did not give away, allow to use commercially or sell your images to a 3rd party without permission or (if applicable) financial payment to you.


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## tirediron (Jul 1, 2014)

vfotog said:


> imagemaker46 said:
> 
> 
> > Tirediron is correct, licence for one year.
> ...


Bear in mind that there's a BIG difference between 'non-profit' and 'charity' - there are non-profit groups that support various political causes, the legalization of drugs, etc; they are non-profit organizations, with certain tax benefits, but they are NOT charities.  I do a LOT of work for charities; if I total up the hours at regular rate, I'm guessing this year will approach $10,000 worth.  I don't get a dime, not even a tax receipt.  I'm pretty sure that Imagemaker donates a fair bit to causes he considers worthy as well.  That said, there are some charities that I wouldn't work for, even if they paid me twice my regular rate.  The United Way being a prime example.  Any outfit that can afford to pay their CEO a six-figure salary doesn't need MY help!  

In summary:  Just because a person doesn't support certain causes doesn't mean they don't do their share of supporting!


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