# "Escape from The Dollhouse"



## DanOstergren (Jun 4, 2013)

This is my first time sharing a photo here, so I figure I will start with one of my strongest portraits. This portrait is called "Escape from The Dollhouse". It depicts the death and rebirth of a friend. This photo has gotten a lot of emotional responses from viewers, both negative and positive. The way I see it, art isn't always about unicorns, Disney princesses and rainbows. It's about life and reality, and sometimes life is dark and full of death. This darkness and struggle brings enlightenment, and as an artist I find it much more productive to express my feelings through creating images, rather than physically acting on my feelings which sometimes could be very harmful to me. 

This is my good friend Adam, and this is "Escape from The Dollhouse".


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## Granddad (Jun 4, 2013)

This is a very dark theme which won't appeal to everyone here. Despite the fact that I'm an old f*rt, I know enough Goths to be used to this kind of thing and to see that it would have a strong appeal to some. 

Good choice of model and well made up to look the part of the doll. I like the positioning, you did an excellent job there, too. The shine on the balloons and the tangled strings also complement the theme as does the blue tone. The only suggestion I'd make would be to consider cloning out the overhead wires, IMO they don't add anything and their removal *may* make the image stronger.

I'd call it good photographic art but I wouldn't want it in *MY* living room!


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## DanOstergren (Jun 4, 2013)

Granddad said:


> This is a very dark theme which won't appeal to everyone here. Despite the fact that I'm an old f*rt, I know enough Goths to be used to this kind of thing and to see that it would have a strong appeal to some.
> 
> Good choice of model and well made up to look the part of the doll. I like the positioning, you did an excellent job there, too. The shine on the balloons and the tangled strings also complement the theme as does the blue tone. The only suggestion I'd make would be to consider cloning out the overhead wires, IMO they don't add anything and their removal *may* make the image stronger.
> 
> I'd call it good photographic art but I wouldn't want it in *MY* living room!


Well I certainly don't expect it to appeal to everyone here, but I do expect that most viewers will have an emotional trigger to it and be forced to confront something in themselves because of it. This to me is what making art is all about. Art to me has a statement and a reaction to that statement; it's the reason we show our work in museums and galleries. 

I'm not always a dark person, but my life is a roller coaster of emotions and I choose to express and explore every facet of what I feel. Some may not like everything I feel, but to be honest I don't like everything I feel either, but I will share it. 

Thank you for the feedback!


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## amolitor (Jun 4, 2013)

To me the illusion is not convincing, she appears to be standing, not floating or being lifted. She's very good, and almost pulled it off, but it doesn't quite pull together for me.

I rather like the wires overhead, though. I think they add a nice industrialist element. The clutter in the bottom of the frame isn't quite pulling its weight, for me. I see what you're going for, and I approve, but that particular mass of stuff doesn't strike me as contributing to the picture as it ought to. It's a little too random, perhaps. I think this would have benefitted from 20 minutes of staring and moving pieces of junk around, and staring some more, to create an "accidental" jumble that supports the frame a bit more. Sorry, that's kind of vague, but maybe you can get something you can use out of it.


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## Buckster (Jun 4, 2013)

I like it, but would love to see it with a more grundy HDR/tonemapped effect, especially replacing the nondescript sky with foreboding clouds.


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## The_Traveler (Jun 4, 2013)

If ever a shot should be made at 1.4 or 1.8, it is this one.
I think the background is too dark and prominent in the shot.
The bright metal leads my eye right out of the shot.


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## cgipson1 (Jun 4, 2013)

BG Too busy... subject does not stand out! Blends with the BG too much.  The contrast between BG and sky is too great, IMO, as the BG is much too dark, and you can't modify it without blowing the sky. Better lighting would have helped that immensely. As Lew mentions above, a blurred background would have worked.. left more to the imagination (which is something else that art is all about). A blurred background would have also better defined the subject.

Some images do indeed cause an emotional trigger for me.. but this is not one that does.

Watermark is too prominent and distracting.


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## DanOstergren (Jun 4, 2013)

Wow, I really like this forum! I don't think I've ever gotten such great feedback anywhere else! 

We were trespassing in order to get the photo. This in itself made it difficult to really move things around as we didn't want to attract the security guard's attention. Personally I think that there is beauty in this spontaneity alone, but this is more of a personal affect for me and the model rather than visual for the viewer. I agree that shooting at a wider aperture to get a more shallow depth of field would have looked good, but it would have also added too much of a dreamy feeling, and I wanted this to have a more crisp and real feeling to it, and shooting wide open on an 85mm lens wouldn't be able to do this in my opinion. It just wouldn't be sharp enough. 

Thank you all for the great feedback! Seriously, keep it coming!


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## cgipson1 (Jun 4, 2013)

amolitor said:


> To me the illusion is not convincing, she appears to be standing, not floating or being lifted. *She's very good,* and almost pulled it off, but it doesn't quite pull together for me.
> .



SHE is named ADAM!   (not that it really matters, but it is important for the proper emotional context)


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## DanOstergren (Jun 4, 2013)

cgipson1 said:


> BG Too busy... subject does not stand out! Blends with the BG too much.  The contrast between BG and sky is too great, IMO, as the BG is much too dark, and you can't modify it without blowing the sky. Better lighting would have helped that immensely. As Lew mentions above, a blurred background would have worked.. left more to the imagination (which is something else that art is all about). A blurred background would have also better defined the subject.
> 
> Some images do indeed cause an emotional trigger for me.. but this is not one that does.
> 
> Watermark is too prominent and distracting.



Thanks for the feedback! And I don't expect every viewer to be triggered by it. Many are, many aren't.

As for the watermark, I don't see how it affects the overall image simply because it's only there for web sharing, not to be a part of the artwork.


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## DanOstergren (Jun 4, 2013)

cgipson1 said:


> amolitor said:
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> > To me the illusion is not convincing, she appears to be standing, not floating or being lifted. *She's very good,* and almost pulled it off, but it doesn't quite pull together for me.
> ...


"She" is still a proper pronoun, regardless of the model's gender. You could use either really in this case and it would have the same context. And Adam goes by Vivikka as well.


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## cgipson1 (Jun 4, 2013)

DanOstergren said:


> Wow, I really like this forum! I don't think I've ever gotten such great feedback anywhere else!
> 
> We were trespassing in order to get the photo. This in itself made it difficult to really move things around as we didn't want to attract the security guard's attention. Personally I think that there is beauty in this spontaneity alone, but this is more of a personal affect for me and the model rather than visual for the viewer. I agree that shooting at a wider aperture to get a more shallow depth of field would have looked good, but it would have also added too much of a dreamy feeling, and I wanted this to have a more crisp and real feeling to it, and shooting wide open on an 85mm lens wouldn't be able to do this in my opinion. It just wouldn't be sharp enough.
> 
> Thank you all for the great feedback! Seriously, keep it coming!



I can shoot my 85mm wide open and it is very sharp... as long as I keep distance in mind to allow adequate DOF. (Nikon 85mm 1.4)

I find that those who willingly trespass and break the law / violate other rules... make it harder for the rest of us, when we try to get permission to do something legitimately. So I take issue with that! Many places no longer allow photographers access... because of this type of abuse.

And so you have a "less than what you envisioned" image dues to the fact you were trespassing, and had to be discreet! Wouldn't it have been better to get permission, or find a different locale... where you could have used proper gear, had plenty of time, and no hindrances on the shoot? Then you could have captured the image you really wanted!


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## cgipson1 (Jun 4, 2013)

DanOstergren said:


> cgipson1 said:
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> > BG Too busy... subject does not stand out! Blends with the BG too much.  The contrast between BG and sky is too great, IMO, as the BG is much too dark, and you can't modify it without blowing the sky. Better lighting would have helped that immensely. As Lew mentions above, a blurred background would have worked.. left more to the imagination (which is something else that art is all about). A blurred background would have also better defined the subject.
> ...



Distraction... it is very prominent.. and draws the eye. The subject is so dark, that the watermark wins... not the subject. (IMO)


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## cgipson1 (Jun 4, 2013)

DanOstergren said:


> cgipson1 said:
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When referring to a male.. SHE is not the "proper pronoun"! HE would be. And the differences between HE and SHE will evoke different emotional responses in different people... especially when associated with different attire, or imagery. Just trying to "keep it real!"


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## DanOstergren (Jun 4, 2013)

amolitor said:


> To me the illusion is not convincing, she appears to be standing, not floating or being lifted. She's very good, and almost pulled it off, but it doesn't quite pull together for me.
> 
> I rather like the wires overhead, though. I think they add a nice industrialist element. The clutter in the bottom of the frame isn't quite pulling its weight, for me. I see what you're going for, and I approve, but that particular mass of stuff doesn't strike me as contributing to the picture as it ought to. It's a little too random, perhaps. I think this would have benefitted from 20 minutes of staring and moving pieces of junk around, and staring some more, to create an "accidental" jumble that supports the frame a bit more. Sorry, that's kind of vague, but maybe you can get something you can use out of it.


Funny you say she looks like she is standing, because she was standing on a milk crate. I took two exposures of this scene; one with the model and one without. I n processing I just removed the milk crate and replaced it with the portion of the scene that was where the milk crate should have been. Since the model was in heels it was really difficult to get a good "dangling" look without loosing balance. I feel like I could have done better on a number of aspects in this photo, but I'm still really happy with it. This was actually my first time doing a two image composite.


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## DanOstergren (Jun 4, 2013)

cgipson1 said:


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I won't argue with you about the watermark, but I will certainly about this. If a person goes by "SHE", then that is their proper pronoun.


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## runnah (Jun 4, 2013)

Wait I am confused here... why do they make black balloons?


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## DanOstergren (Jun 4, 2013)

runnah said:


> Wait I am confused here... why do they make black balloons?


Why indeed...


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## runnah (Jun 4, 2013)

DanOstergren said:


> runnah said:
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> > Wait I am confused here... why do they make black balloons?
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Festive funerals?

Goth 8 year olds?


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## amolitor (Jun 4, 2013)

DanOstergren said:


> Funny you say she looks like she is standing, because she was standing on a milk crate. I took two exposures of this scene; one with the model and one without. I n processing I just removed the milk crate and replaced it with the portion of the scene that was where the milk crate should have been. Since the model was in heels it was really difficult to get a good "dangling" look without loosing balance. I feel like I could have done better on a number of aspects in this photo, but I'm still really happy with it. This was actually my first time doing a two image composite.



Interesting! I assumed she (I will continue to use "she" since, if I am reading this right, your model is somewhat fluid on this point and is dressed as a woman here) was standing on the rubble, I didn't even notice your hard work to remove the crate  The area around the feet is ambiguous and jumbled, so it's not clear what's going on.

I think possibly a pose with the hips not level might help, one foot on a milk crate, the other dangling down the side to tilt the hips and make at least one leg genuinely "hang", might be a useful trick here. This is not something I have tried, though, so I'm just thinking through some ideas.


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## DanOstergren (Jun 4, 2013)

runnah said:


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For this shot the idea behind the black colored balloons was to have dark and depressing mixed with a sense of optimism.


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## cgipson1 (Jun 4, 2013)

DanOstergren said:


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I will agree to that.. but nothing that was said prior to this indicated that Adam refers to him/her self as a "She". The attire could be just a costume... not a lifestyle statement.


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## DanOstergren (Jun 4, 2013)

amolitor said:


> DanOstergren said:
> 
> 
> > Funny you say she looks like she is standing, because she was standing on a milk crate. I took two exposures of this scene; one with the model and one without. I n processing I just removed the milk crate and replaced it with the portion of the scene that was where the milk crate should have been. Since the model was in heels it was really difficult to get a good "dangling" look without loosing balance. I feel like I could have done better on a number of aspects in this photo, but I'm still really happy with it. This was actually my first time doing a two image composite.
> ...


Thank you, I appreciate your respect on the gender subject! 

Like another poster pointed out, taking more time to put this scene together would have really helped make this look better and translate the idea better. Hindsight is such a *****! D:
And those are some ideas I will utilize in the future with similar shots. I don't plan on recreating this shot or concept ever, but I do plan on using the technique again.


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## DanOstergren (Jun 4, 2013)

cgipson1 said:


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Pointing out their gender to someone and saying they shouldn't refer to them as a "she" was kind of unnecessary though.


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## runnah (Jun 4, 2013)

DanOstergren said:


> Like another poster pointed out, taking more time to put this scene together would have really helped make this look better and translate the idea better. Hindsight is such a *****! D:
> And those are some ideas I will utilize in the future with similar shots. I don't plan on recreating this shot or concept ever, but I do plan on using the technique again.



Best thing you can do. It took me a very long time to not rush thing during shooting. Often i'd get home and kick myself for not taking the 10 seconds to move a branch or adjust someone's hair.

But I guess when the law is bearing down on you, you have to make hay while the sun is shining!


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## gregtallica (Jun 4, 2013)

runnah said:


> Wait I am confused here... why do they make black balloons?



40th and 50th birthday parties.




My only comment that hasn't been said is her arms - her arms TOTALLY kill the hanging effect for me. Far less "hanged to death" and more "pretending to hang to death." I understand it wouldn't be easy to do that in heels on a milk crate, but that's my $.02.


If DOF was more slim, it could be a more attractive picture, but I like your editing style. Also, the watermark, I get where you're coming from for the web sharing basis, but when I opened up this page I saw balloons, then a pretend graffitti watermark. It turns a lot of people off and kind of sets the mood for the photo early if you're not careful. I'd make it more simple, and give it more opacity.

Whether that counts for anything or not is up to you. Great idea, though. Good model


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## DanOstergren (Jun 4, 2013)

runnah said:


> DanOstergren said:
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> ...


Yes, exactly! I'm getting better at that attention to detail, but sometimes it slips past me because I am being hasty. To make things worse, the balloons started popping about five minutes after we started shooting, which definitely caught the attention of the security guard. We made sure we were completely ready before getting to the location so we could set up and get shooting immediately, but we had to leave almost right away!


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## jowensphoto (Jun 4, 2013)

I figured this was some type of composite, but even with the removed milk crate she still looks like she's standing on an invisible one. I can't remember who, but there's a member on this forum who is REALLY good at these kind of shots and might be willing to give you some pointers.


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## DanOstergren (Jun 4, 2013)

gregtallica said:


> runnah said:
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> > Wait I am confused here... why do they make black balloons?
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Point well taken!


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## runnah (Jun 4, 2013)

Oh well if you took two exposures, add a linear gradient blur to the non model shot to add a faux DOF.


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## DanOstergren (Jun 4, 2013)

jowensphoto said:


> I figured this was some type of composite, but even with the removed milk crate she still looks like she's standing on an invisible one. I can't remember who, but there's a member on this forum who is REALLY good at these kind of shots and might be willing to give you some pointers.


That would be great!


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## jowensphoto (Jun 4, 2013)

Let me check my facebook, I know I fanned his page awhile back.


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## DanOstergren (Jun 4, 2013)

runnah said:


> Oh well if you took two exposures, add a linear gradient blur to the non model shot to add a faux DOF.


For my personal taste that kind of borders into over-editing. This type of shot is already "manipulated" enough for my taste.


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## cgipson1 (Jun 4, 2013)

DanOstergren said:


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Not necessarily... many males would prefer not to be referred to as "SHE"! I would say most would prefer it. Without the further clarification you provided, I had no way of knowing if "Adam" was one who might be offended by being referred to as a "She".... now I know. No offense intended. 

Also for your audience, the clarification between "he" and "she" can be important... as the emotional responses you seem to want to provoke, will vary based on that. Not all are comfortable with crossing traditional gender lines... and the response they feel will definitely be different than those are are comfortable with such things. Me? I could care less what gender someone chooses to be... but I do like clarity, honesty and accurate representation. 

I notice you did not address the trespassing issue?


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## The_Traveler (Jun 4, 2013)

Let's not get off track into too much word stuff here.

Re: the watermark. 
It's bad for two reasons: first, it is in eminently readable text and in a place where a sign might be so the viewer automatically reads it and it draws attention
Second, you have done the best thing to discourage piracy by posting a low res image. 
The watermark you have is easily removable (see below)

If you really want better critique and better help, allow editing of your images.
Before you respond that you want to do it yourself, yeah, yeah, I've heard that before.If you were a dancer would you tell the instructor not to move?
If you were a sculptor, would the instructor be hands off?
If you were a pianist or violinist, must the teacher just tell you what they want you to do?​in this case, as many others, an edited image is worth 1000 words because the changes can be complex and not easily described.

you will benefit.
If you don't agree, you can change your profile later.


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## DanOstergren (Jun 4, 2013)

cgipson1 said:


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There was no reason for clarification on either part, nor was there reason for you to clarify what is proper for another person to say when they refer to them as a she. Either way, I'm done having this conversation with you.


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## DanOstergren (Jun 4, 2013)

The_Traveler said:


> Let's not get off track into too much word stuff here.
> 
> Re: the watermark.
> It's bad for two reasons: first, it is in eminently readable text and in a place where a sign might be so the viewer automatically reads it and it draws attention
> ...



I appreciate the explanation, and the point is taken. 

As for allowing others to edit my photos, I prefer that they ask first [the case of removing my watermark is perfectly fine]. And if you're telling me to allow editing, may I ask why you have your profile set to say that is isn't ok for others to edit yours?


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## kathyt (Jun 4, 2013)

DanOstergren said:


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Good point! Ohhhhh travelerrrrr, I want to edit your images. Change it NOW good traveler.


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## runnah (Jun 4, 2013)

DanOstergren said:


>



Boy the sequel to "Up" sure took a strange turn.


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## DanOstergren (Jun 4, 2013)

runnah said:


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HA!


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## amolitor (Jun 4, 2013)

runnah said:


> Boy the sequel to "Up" sure took a strange turn.



If you're gonna have Depp and Burton do it, you pretty much gotta know what you're getting in to.

Me, I think they should do ALL SEQUELS. But that's just my opinion.


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## Photographiend (Jun 4, 2013)

I like Tim Burton even his dark pieces are done in a mostly tasteful way. While there are definite elements of taste and style here it does seem that too much of the composition was not planned or beyond your control. 

That said... did you know they have a "Dark Side" gallery on here? It is hidden in "Themed Photography".


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## DanOstergren (Jun 4, 2013)

Photographiend said:


> I like Tim Burton even his dark pieces are done in a mostly tasteful way. While there are definite elements of taste and style here it does seem that too much of the composition was not planned or beyond your control.
> 
> That said... did you know they have a "Dark Side" gallery on here? It is hidden in "Themed Photography".


No I didn't. I'm pretty new here. Is this thread out of place in the people forum?


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## Photographiend (Jun 4, 2013)

runnah said:


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"Over the Hill" Birthday parties... never been to one?  Once you hit the big 50 it is supposed to be all jokes about how you have one foot in the grave black balloons and a cake with a tomb stone on it.


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## Photographiend (Jun 4, 2013)

DanOstergren said:


> Photographiend said:
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> > I like Tim Burton even his dark pieces are done in a mostly tasteful way. While there are definite elements of taste and style here it does seem that too much of the composition was not planned or beyond your control.
> ...



Honestly I couldn't tell you if it is or not. It does fit the theme here. But if this is what you are into you may want to check that out as well. I only went there once and the first post had a corpse in it. Like a real corpse... I have a huge issue with photographing dead people so... never went back.


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## runnah (Jun 4, 2013)

Photographiend said:


> "Over the Hill" Birthday parties... never been to one?



I don't get invited to many parties.


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## DanOstergren (Jun 4, 2013)

Photographiend said:


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Dark Side isn't really my thing; I just have a dark side in me that needs to be expressed when it surfaces from time to time. Like how a painter paints what he is feeling, I try to do with photography. 

And that would be pretty upsetting to me; I couldn't handle seeing that either.


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## DanOstergren (Jun 4, 2013)

runnah said:


> Photographiend said:
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Only because you would steal the spotlight!


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## Photographiend (Jun 4, 2013)

Good to know. I think we all have a dark side. I don't share mine with the world just a personal choice.


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## MLCIII (Jun 4, 2013)

CG didn't have his Wheaties (proper noun) this morning... Nice shot. It maybe could've benefitted from a little shallower dof, but whatever. It's not so polished, which I think fits the theme well.

I'm also disappointed you didn't use one red balloon amongst the black ones. Okay I'm not disappointed, but a red balloon would've been cool. Like the little girl with the red coat in Schindler's list. But then I think she gets killed. So maybe no red balloon.


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## Granddad (Jun 4, 2013)

Photographiend said:


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Really? I must be owed quite a few cakes with tombstones and bunches of black balloons!


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## jowensphoto (Jun 4, 2013)

MLCIII said:


> CG didn't have his Wheaties (proper noun) this morning... Nice shot. It maybe could've benefitted from a little shallower dof, but whatever. It's not so polished, which I think fits the theme well.
> 
> I'm also disappointed you didn't use one red balloon amongst the black ones. Okay I'm not disappointed, but a red balloon would've been cool. Like the little girl with the red coat in Schindler's list. But then I think she gets killed. So maybe no red balloon.



Or the movie, The Red Balloon.


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## The_Traveler (Jun 4, 2013)

DanOstergren said:


> I appreciate the explanation, and the point is taken.
> 
> As for allowing others to edit my photos, I prefer that they ask first [the case of removing my watermark is perfectly fine]. And if you're telling me to allow editing, may I ask why you have your profile set to say that is isn't ok for others to edit yours?





kathythorson said:


> Good point! Ohhhhh travelerrrrr, I want to edit your images. Change it NOW good traveler.



As much as I appreciate the kind offer of the OP and KathyThorson to edit all my posts, I don't allow editing in general for a simple reason.
I usually know exactly how I want my pictures to look and my interest is in getting response to those pictures as they are presented not to get info on how others might have edited them. 
If I thought that there was a great upside to allowing editing I would do it but the comments I have gotten over the last 5.5 years have borne out that I haven't suffered from not allowing editing.
When someone says something interesting and promising, I usually just tell them to go ahead and show it.

And, not to beat around the bush, I think that you would generally profit from a different take on your finishing.


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## DanOstergren (Jun 4, 2013)

The_Traveler said:


> DanOstergren said:
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So it stands to reason that I feel the same about my photos, and you have no reason to tell me to let others edit my artwork when you yourself don't want others to edit your own because they are your vision, just as my photos are my own personal vision as well. Unless they ask.


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## DanOstergren (Jun 4, 2013)

MLCIII said:


> CG didn't have his Wheaties (proper noun) this morning... Nice shot. It maybe could've benefitted from a little shallower dof, but whatever. It's not so polished, which I think fits the theme well.
> 
> I'm also disappointed you didn't use one red balloon amongst the black ones. Okay I'm not disappointed, but a red balloon would've been cool. Like the little girl with the red coat in Schindler's list. But then I think she gets killed. So maybe no red balloon.


Hahaha! Yeah, I should eat breakfast too before I say something to someone else that I might regret!   

I like the idea behind the red balloon, but I just don't feel that the color pop [pun definitely intended] would compliment the rest of the shot or the overall mood. It's all personal taste though.


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## The_Traveler (Jun 4, 2013)

DanOstergren said:


> So it stands to reason that I feel the same about my photos, and you have no reason to tell me to let others edit my artwork when you yourself don't want others to edit your own because they are your vision, just as my photos are my own personal vision as well. Unless they ask.



I didn't tell you to do anything.
You can feel the way you want.

My reason for saying that is the number of really good comments you got that, seemingly, were new ideas for you.
I said I think you would benefit from letting people show you some things about your pictures.

If your feelings and ego won't let you do that, your loss, not mine.


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## cgipson1 (Jun 4, 2013)

MLCIII said:


> CG didn't have his Wheaties (proper noun) this morning... Nice shot. It maybe could've benefitted from a little shallower dof, but whatever. It's not so polished, which I think fits the theme well.
> 
> I'm also disappointed you didn't use one red balloon amongst the black ones. Okay I'm not disappointed, but a red balloon would've been cool. Like the little girl with the red coat in Schindler's list. But then I think she gets killed. So maybe no red balloon.



Since you don't even know me.. I am surprised you even have an opinion.


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## cgipson1 (Jun 4, 2013)

The_Traveler said:


> DanOstergren said:
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> > So it stands to reason that I feel the same about my photos, and you have no reason to tell me to let others edit my artwork when you yourself don't want others to edit your own because they are your vision, just as my photos are my own personal vision as well. Unless they ask.
> ...



Lew.. your massive amount of experience might have something to do with that too....   Others that lack that same experience might benefit from being more flexible, don't you agree?


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## TimothyJinx (Jun 4, 2013)

Photographiend said:


> Once you hit the big 50 it is supposed to be all jokes about how you have one foot in the grave black balloons and a cake with a tomb stone on it.



These jokes are not funny.


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## DanOstergren (Jun 4, 2013)

The_Traveler said:


> DanOstergren said:
> 
> 
> > So it stands to reason that I feel the same about my photos, and you have no reason to tell me to let others edit my artwork when you yourself don't want others to edit your own because they are your vision, just as my photos are my own personal vision as well. Unless they ask.
> ...


I never said others couldn't edit my photos; I said that I prefer they ask first. And I simply questioned why someone who doesn't allow others to edit their photos [for the same reasons I prefer people ask before editing] would tell me to "allow editing of your images." Is asking a question like this really a reflection of my ego? I think not. I have taken all of the advice given to me in this thread with grace, even the advice you have given me about the watermark. What I didn't understand prior to your advice I do now. You don't need to act like I'm being egotistical simply for questioning you; I'm a curious person and I ask questions. I've thanked each and every person who responded for their feedback, and I will take from it what I want. My feelings aren't hurt, and my ego isn't stopping me from learning and asking questions here.


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## MLCIII (Jun 4, 2013)

Round and round we go!



DanOstergren said:


> Hahaha! Yeah, I should eat breakfast too before I say something to someone else that I might regret!
> 
> I like the idea behind the red balloon, but I just don't feel that the color pop [pun definitely intended] would compliment the rest of the shot or the overall mood. It's all personal taste though.



I completely agree, the red balloon idea was just a bunch of hot air (moar puns!) It was my attempt at a satire of many people's "helpful" comments. 



cgipson1 said:


> Since you don't even know me.. I am surprised you even have an opinion.



No worries. I have no opinions, only observations. I meant no harm, it was only a joke. Though I see you still haven't found breakfast!


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## The_Traveler (Jun 4, 2013)

When my cardiologist tells me to lower my dosage I don't insist he do the same.
Based on skilled diagnosis, different people need different amounts of support.

re: ask me.
How will you decide - on a picture by picture basis or on an individual by individual basis?
Either way, it becomes a burden that people, by that I mean me, won't bother because the chance to edit your pictures is not that important. 
I'll just go on to something else.

If getting the greatest amount of input you can isn't that important compared to the control you want to exercise, then don't allow editing.


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## esselle (Jun 4, 2013)

I agree with cgipson on it being too busy. There needs to be a more drastic color difference IMHO. The background is too dark and Adam's attire gets lost...and the balloons could be a mixture of black and white for no one person is all dark or all light. We are ALL a bit of both me thinks. 

It's slightly shocking but not overwhelming. I *want* to keep looking. :mrgreen:

good work!


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## DanOstergren (Jun 4, 2013)

The_Traveler said:


> When my cardiologist tells me to lower my dosage I don't insist he do the same.
> Based on skilled diagnosis, different people need different amounts of support.
> 
> re: ask me.
> ...



I never said I wouldn't allow editing, and I am very much allowed to ask questions because it's how I learn. I'm just going to say "OK" now and hope you don't misunderstand my questioning for a refusal to be open to help. So, OK.


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## esselle (Jun 4, 2013)

As an aside, you don't need to preface your work with a disclaimer. Lol this is your creativity speaking ...u sound in your opening like you're explaining why you see the need for this type of art. 

If some don't like it...some will. 'Nuff said, to me.


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## The_Traveler (Jun 4, 2013)

cgipson1 said:


> Lew.. Others that lack that same experience might benefit from being more flexible, don't you agree?



Experience aside, my estimate of the benefit I would get from exposure here is outweighed by my own feelings about my photographs.
The OP has the absolute right to feel the same way if he wants.

I think, based on this one submission, he would benefit from the amount and kind of input he would get and allowing editing is a welcoming sign that he is open to all the help given.

If he's going to put an obstacle in the way, some people will, rather than trying to describe in words what is best shown in an image, just skip to the next image.


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## DanOstergren (Jun 4, 2013)

esselle said:


> As an aside, you don't need to preface your work with a disclaimer. Lol this is your creativity speaking ...u sound in your opening like you're explaining why you see the need for this type of art.
> 
> If some don't like it...some will. 'Nuff said, to me.


Thank you, that makes a lot of sense.


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## DanOstergren (Jun 4, 2013)

I'm new to this forum, and I was uncomfortable with the idea of others that I don't know editing my artworks. Each and every one of my pieces are very dear to me for one reason or another, and are an extension of myself in a way that I just can't explain. I'm not trying to be egotistical; I just made my account here today and don't know this place well. If me asking that others ask before editing is a no-no, I'm sorry, but I am not the only one who feels this way, and I shouldn't be getting this sort of negative or hypocritical response because of it. I am open to learning and questioning and letting others edit my photos if they ask and if I am comfortable with it, but if you don't like it then I don't know what to tell you. I'm sorry?


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## Granddad (Jun 4, 2013)

DanOstergren said:


> I'm new to this forum, and I was uncomfortable with the idea of others that I don't know editing my artworks. Each and every one of my pieces are very dear to me for one reason or another, and are an extension of myself in a way that I just can't explain. I'm not trying to be egotistical; I just made my account here today and don't know this place well. If me asking that others ask before editing is a no-no, I'm sorry, but I am not the only one who feels this way, and I shouldn't be getting this sort of negative or hypocritical response because of it. I am open to learning and questioning and letting others edit my photos if they ask and if I am comfortable with it, but if you don't like it then I don't know what to tell you. I'm sorry?



Sounds reasonable to me. 44 posts in one day must be close to a record but i can see why you'd hesitate to allow editing. I wouldn't join a photogroup in town and let people borrow my camera after an hour. Keep an open mind on the subject, though, some of the guys who haven't had breakfast yet are pretty darned good at what they do and can be incredibly helpful. I've learned most of what I know about photography here over the last couple of years.


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## Photographiend (Jun 4, 2013)

DanOstergren said:


> I'm new to this forum, and I was uncomfortable with the idea of others that I don't know editing my artworks. Each and every one of my pieces are very dear to me for one reason or another, and are an extension of myself in a way that I just can't explain. I'm not trying to be egotistical; I just made my account here today and don't know this place well. If me asking that others ask before editing is a no-no, I'm sorry, but I am not the only one who feels this way, and I shouldn't be getting this sort of negative or hypocritical response because of it. I am open to learning and questioning and letting others edit my photos if they ask and if I am comfortable with it, but if you don't like it then I don't know what to tell you. I'm sorry?



I feel ya. If I had to wager a guess I would say Most if not all of us come in here and start our account with the "No Editing" setting and for the same reason. It took me my first post to realize why I should change it. Still too new to the game to think my work couldn't benefit the editing prowess of someone of these Masters (not being sarcastic but don't let it go to your heads).


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## DanOstergren (Jun 4, 2013)

MLCIII said:


> I completely agree, the red balloon idea was just a bunch of hot air (moar puns!) It was my attempt at a satire of many people's "helpful" comments.


Aaaah hahahaha, I just caught that!


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## runnah (Jun 4, 2013)

Photographiend said:


> editing prowess of someone of these Masters (not being sarcastic but don't let it go to your heads).



I do own several robes...


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## rexbobcat (Jun 4, 2013)

Hey, I know you (Dan)! Sort of. Well, I know you from another forum lol.

Good stuff. I really like the concept and the execution. My only criticism is that the model can kind of get lost within the background due the dark colors throughout. Given the context and of the shot, it would be difficult to remedy, but it's just my immediate observation.


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