# How do you pick a flash?



## SuzukiGS750EZ (Mar 23, 2017)

Hey guys. As you can see by my signature, i shoot with a canon 80D. I'm curious about flashes. I know they're used for portraits, but what other types of photography benefit from them? I shoot a lot of wildlife as well as some landscapes and occassionally candid or portraits. I know a flash won't reach a bird in a distance or light up a tree, but what else can they be used for? Also, how do i know which one to get? I'm kind of the buy a model better than i need (which is usually outside of my budget!) but i've always been thankful i did it that way that way i have room to grow and possibly don't have to buy again in the future. So, is there any way you can help me figure out what i need via question and answer? I don't know if i would use one a lot, but i think i would like to stick with a canon branded flash unless there is a third party that makes a better flash. Money isn't necessarily a contributing factor in this as i don't need a flash right away (although i'd like to learn flash photography) but i'd like to keep it under 300 if i can. I'm also a minimalist so if a 150$ flash will suite all my needs and then some but a 300$ flash will fit my needs and go to a point where i may never use it, i'd rather go lower than higher.


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## Derrel (Mar 23, 2017)

I owned a Canon 580 EX-II with my Canon d-slr kit for a number of years, and it was a very robust, accurate, dependable flash unit. That's what the camera-maker flash units offer: robust, dependable, quality flash units, but of course at a fairly high price. Today, unauthorized Made in China flash units, some built on stolen or discarded injection moulds from camera-maker plants, have flooded the market at super-low prices. Compatibility with ALL flash modes has never been the strong suit of the Made in China flashes, but most newer MIC flashes seem to do most of the things the camera maker flashes do, and it might be that a $69-$89 MIC flash would be adequate for your needs.

Yongnuo and Neewer have some models that are fairly popular,and low cost.


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## astroNikon (Mar 23, 2017)

I use mostly OEM (original equipment manufacturer) speedlights/flashes.
I have one Yongnuo and I found out that it's advertised with all the bell and whistles, but some of those bells don't quite work as well as you'd like them too.  Such as IR and remote flash triggering.  But they're really good otherwise for a few potentially oddities here and there.


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## SuzukiGS750EZ (Mar 23, 2017)

Just for reference, I've been looking at tree 430 iii


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## Derrel (Mar 23, 2017)

SuzukiGS750EZ said:


> Just for reference, I've been looking at tree 430 iii



I just looked at the specifications on that. Radio triggering sounds nice. That looks like an okay flash for $299.


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## SuzukiGS750EZ (Mar 23, 2017)

Derrel said:


> SuzukiGS750EZ said:
> 
> 
> > Just for reference, I've been looking at tree 430 iii
> ...


What should I be looking for? Is stronger better? Do you need more than one?


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## Derrel (Mar 23, 2017)

Flash use depends on the individual person's needs. I use studio flash units if I need multiple flashes; many people use multiple speedlights triggered by various means, so the answer depends. Is stronger better? I would say yes, especially if you want to use bounced flash, or work at longer distances. I am guessing the 430 is strong enough for many people, but not for "all users". MUCH of the time, only one speedlight will be used, but...a second one could be used too, for lighting larger areas, or for creating a ratio'd lighting set-up.

Syl Arena wrote _*the book*_ on Canon flash use. I wish I could tell you exactly what to look for, but it's complicated. I have no idea what your flash needs or expectations are. Maybe look around on the web, and do some research, and come up with some ideas based on what other people are buying. If you are planning on just sticking the flash in the hotshoe and swiveling and bouncing it off of the ceiling, you can probably use ANY flash made within the last 20 years and have it do okay at least. If you have visions of a 2- or 3- flash, remote commander-capable flash, then the Canon wireless flash units would be a good choice, provided you have the funds to buy them.

If all you need is a flash that can connect with a TTL remote cord, you could easily buy cheap, third-party flashes and do perfectly fine. If you want the MOST reach, you'd likely find the 430 series just a bit under-powered (by 1-stop, maybe 2-stops when compared to 580 or 600-series flashes?) on long distance flash shots where the flash is bounced off the ceiling.

IF you DO want to buy a *Better Beame*r type flash-lens for long-long-throw wildlife eyeball catchlights on birds,etc, you'd be better off with a 580-EX-II or 600-RT class flash, with maximum power.

IF you want to move into OCF and indoor portraits, $100, low-cost monolights like Adorama Flashpoint 320M, 150-Watt-second studio lights would make much,much more economic sense than $600 camera-maker speedlights that have radio triggering capability.


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## SuzukiGS750EZ (Mar 23, 2017)

I mostly want flash for fill flash, but I don't know much about it. What's the 580 or 600 have over the 430?


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## dasmith232 (Mar 23, 2017)

Hi Suzuki. Derrel's comments above are right on the mark. Reading from one of the flash masters is a really good place to get going. Syl Arena is my first choice. He is specific to Canon. Two other names are David Hobby (the "strobist"), who has a full set of tutorials online (look for "strobist 101"), and Neil van Niekerk who tries to stay somewhat brand neutral but has gone back-and-forth between Canon and Nikon (currently on Nikon). What these guys teach is essential to being good with flash. It's possible to learn from other places, but just make sure you get these topics covered.

Anyway, back to your flash recommendations...

I recommend that at least one flash should be OEM *and* be capable of functioning in E-TTL (for Canon, i-TTL for Nikon) *and* be capable of operating as a "master" in Canon terminology. The two big differences between the 430 series and the 580 (or 600) series is (1) more power for the latter, and (2) can operate as a master (again, the latter). Once you have one flash in that category, you can add others that are "smaller" or less capable.

I have 4 of the 580EXII units, and 2 of the 430EXII units. (I also have a full set of studio monolights, but that's a different topic). My first flash was the 430. It didn't operate as a master, but I didn't have additional flashes to control, so it didn't matter. My second flash was a 580, which could then control (itself and) the 430. After that, it was a matter of just getting additional flashes for more creativity and backup units.

I don't have any of the 600's because I don't have any needs that my existing units aren't filling for me. I already have a full set of radio triggers. So the "built-in" RF system of the 600 is nice, but not nice enough for me to drop a bunch more money when what I have works.

Is more power better? Yeah, most of the time. However, it is possible to have too much power for "close-in" or "small" work. For me, that boundary is between the studio heads and the Speedlites, not between the 430 and 580. Briefly, the reason is that flash power is measured in fractions. 1/64th power on a really powerful flash is still more light than 1/64th power on a smaller light. Sometimes, you don't need gobs and gobs of light.

So, my recommendations:
- Get Syl Arena's book
- Go through the Strobist website (but don't follow his recommendation of "manual-only" flash - go ahead and get a TTL flash)
- Get a flash that has:
--- the ability to set power manually
--- the ability to point the head in "any" direction ***
--- the ability to talk to the native flash system in the camera (E-TTL in this case)

*** = by the way, the 430's head will rotate around 270 degrees. The 580 will rotate 360 degrees. That quarter circle that's missing, it's pretty annoying.

There are several options from Yongnuo that are quite compatible with the Canon system. My (adult, photographer) daughter uses Yongnuo equipment and is quite happy with it. Another photography friend of mine (also a professional) has tried to go "totally cheap" on flashes from Neewer and is constantly fighting it. I loaned her a couple Canon flashes and now that's all she talks about!

If the Yongnuo sounds interesting, you'd want to look at the YN-568EX II unit. It's just under $100 and rivals the 580EXII Canon unit.

If you want to get into wireless control quickly, Yongnuo makes a 968 series which is meant to compete with Canon's 600 unit.

This information may create more questions, but hopefully provides some answers as well. So, feel free to ask away!


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## SuzukiGS750EZ (Mar 23, 2017)

Yay! More questions lol. Would I be wise to just get the best flash canon has to offer and then buy smaller flashes as you say that can be controlled by the larger one? To be honest, I don't think I'll buy more than one flash within the next 5 years or so. The onboard flash leaves a lot to be desired or maybe it's because I don't know how to control that either. I've only used a flash a handful of times. I usually just shoot with what's available for light. I also don't understand why my camera won't allow a certain shutter speed or iso when using flash. I know it's a different realm of photography. My uncle teaches flash photography but I figured I'd come here and ask since he deals with questions in his camera shop all week...


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## Derrel (Mar 24, 2017)

I see a Canon 430 EX-II for $125 used here Used Inventory | Pro Photo Supply

If you want ONE, single flash for mostly just fill-flash uses, and that will likely last for five years, a Canon 430 EX-II or a 580 EX-II would be good choices, in my opinion. On the other hand, you could probably buy a Yognuo or Neewer flash for less money, and buy a second, third, and fourth unit for about the same money as one, good, Canon flash. If you're just buying a flash for personal uses and do not need-need-need to depend on it, I might be very tempted to buy one of the MIC $69-$89 units and learn how it works.

If you want to be able to use fast shutter speeds, like above 1/200 second, you will need a HSS or High-Speed Sync capable flash unit and a camera that can do HHS (Canon 80D CAN do HSS shooting; low-end cameras like say the Nikon D3200 can NOT do high-speed flash synchronization), so make sure to look for that.

As dasmith mentioned, you REALLY WANT a TTL-capable flash unit. IGNORE people talking up manual-only flash units, especially if you're new to flash.


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## SuzukiGS750EZ (Mar 24, 2017)

What are the differences between the gen 1, 2 and 3? Compatibility? Looks? Hardware improvements? Say I got a 580 gen 2, if I used a gen 3 would I notice a difference?


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## weepete (Mar 24, 2017)

For flash units the important factors for me is if you need ettl or manual or both, recycle time and if you need HSS or not. Bear in mind that when you go down the route of flash you'll also be wanting some modifiers. My next flash will probably be the 
 Yonguno YN600EX-RT, cheap as chips has all the functionality I need and then some.


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## Derrel (Mar 24, 2017)

II has the reliable flash metering. III is radio-controlled.


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## dasmith232 (Mar 24, 2017)

SuzukiGS750EZ said:


> What are the differences between the gen 1, 2 and 3? Compatibility? Looks? Hardware improvements? Say I got a 580 gen 2, if I used a gen 3 would I notice a difference?



There's E-TTL vs. E-TTLL II (which is the flash algorithms built into the camera), and then there's Mk I vs. Mk II flash units (and bodies).

The flash algorithms (E-TTL vs. E-TTL II) changed how metering works. In E-TTL, the flash exposure estimation looked at the same "point" as the normal metering. So for example, if you were using "spot" or "partial" metering, the flash algorithms looked at the same point. In addition, the flash metering does not link to the active focus point either.

In E-TTL generation II, the flash metering looks at the entire frame. The theory is that "hot spots" were less prone to throwing off the flash metering in generation 2. In my experience, it's working better.

In terms of the body and flash unit equipment, Canon created two tiers, called "type A" and "type B". That terminology isn't well known among even avid photographers. One has to be a "special" kind of person to deal with this detail.

Type A cameras do not support wireless E-TTL flash, do not have the "modeling light" (which is pretty lame anyway), and do not support flash ratios across groups (when using multiple flashes). Some Type-A cameras are TTL only (not E-TTL).

The difference between TTL and E-TTL is that flash power for TTL is determined *during* the exposure as light is being reflected off the film. With E-TTL, the flash power is determined with a "pre-flash" before the exposure starts, and then flashes again (after adjusting power) during the actual exposure.

The last category of changes is a lot more visible to most people in that "type B" equipment has better interaction in the camera menus being able to control the flash unit settings. In "type A", you had to make changes in the flash unit. In "type B" cameras, you could make changes in either the camera or the flash. Despite these "improvements" it can often still being confusing as to which settings (camera or flash) override the other.

If you're not using "manual flash power", then in general, E-TTL is better than TTL and E-TTL II is better than E-TTL. Most people don't need to care about the differences.

If you're using manual flash power, then none of this matters.


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