# D800 - will it really be as scary as Nikon is indicating?



## bertsirkin (Feb 17, 2012)

Nikon came out with a D800 Technical Guide - I'm not sure if this is a "first" or not, but I don't recall anything like this coming from Nikon before. You can download it from here:
http://www.nikonusa.com/en_US/o/Y6wrkA9OU_z04IreazIXl_22UII/PDF/D800_TechnicalGuide_En.pdf 

Nikon must be really worried about the bad-press they may get if they don't warn people in advance - and this document does just that. It's a primer on good technique - and a warning that the D800 is going to require a LOT of good technique.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Feb 17, 2012)

wow!  thanks for posting, nice read


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## Derrel (Feb 17, 2012)

Given how poor the technique of many people actually *is*, this roughly 8-page brochure filled with diagrams and small sample photos, and some very simple-to-follow instructional blurbs might be of tremendous help to people who have never really been taught the proper ways to maximize image quality. Many people have come to photography within just the last three years, and are entirely self-taught, and have no experience with tripods, mirror-up, self-timer, or anti-vibration settings; nor do they have experience with using a remote control release, nor on focusing methods and selection of optimal settings.

We last saw a LOT of problems when consumer d-slrs went from the 6 Megapixel range, up to 12 MP or so...people began to notice faults and flaws in their images--which had been rather hidden in their 6MP captures. With a new camera that is going to be outputting door-sized image files right off the CF card, some help like this is going to be of great benefit to many people.


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## GeorgieGirl (Feb 17, 2012)

Bert...I thought you had your hands on this body already and were telling us about how hard it was going to be....


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## bertsirkin (Feb 17, 2012)

<<Given how poor the technique of many people actually *is*, this roughly 8-page brochure filled with diagrams and small sample photos, and some very simple-to-follow instructional blurbs might be of tremendous help... >>
Yes, it does cover most of the basics, but not all.  The bigest problem I've found with most new photographers, is that they buy a shaky tripod and think it's better than hand-holding. There's nothing worse than a tripod that isn't really solid! I do remember the initial issues going from 6 to 12mp - but, the last generation of 12mp cameras (D700/D3) spoiled a lot of people (including me). With the excellent high-ISO performance, I could leave my tripod home to collect dust and still get great shots. Of course I always try to brace the camera against something, though - so it's not like there's no external stabilization. But the D800 will change all of that once again.


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## chuasam (Feb 17, 2012)

People who find such a camera too difficult should stick to little point&shoot cameras.


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## bertsirkin (Feb 17, 2012)

GeorgieGirl said:


> Bert...I thought you had your hands on this body already and were telling us about how hard it was going to be....


No, I'm not that lucky or connected. I was just extrapolating what it will be like to shoot 36mp. Looks like Nikon agrees, though.


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## GeorgieGirl (Feb 17, 2012)

bertsirkin said:


> GeorgieGirl said:
> 
> 
> > Bert...I thought you had your hands on this body already and were telling us about how hard it was going to be....
> ...



...dammit bert...now I'm confused....but, yes...I'm waiting for the TPF pre-order hands on guys to share their points of view after they have handled it a bit...


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## bertsirkin (Feb 17, 2012)

GeorgieGirl said:


> ...dammit bert...now I'm confused....but, yes...I'm waiting for the TPF pre-order hands on guys to share their points of view after they have handled it a bit...



Well, I suspect that there will be quite a few "hands-on" reports here, as well as elsewhere. The problem with all of the reports thus far, is that most have been with pre-production cameras, and many from people paid by Nikon. 

This will undoubtedly be a much more difficult camera to deal with than the current generation is - what it will do is to either teach new-comers what good technique is, or force old-timers to go back to good technique.  What really surprise me in this document, is that Nikon is recommending using LiveView with the D800 to help avoid mirror vibration. I suspect holding a DSLR with 2-hands while looking at the LCD is much less steady, however, than using your head/eye as an additional steadying point. I guess it's a "name your poison" situation - mirror vibration or camera shake.


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## RRRoger (Feb 21, 2012)

The purpose of this literature is to educate, not scare anyone.
Following these techniques will help anyone to use any camera better.
I think it has been a really good idea. 
Now they need to release the (no-print) version of the manual.

Nikon wants to sell D800 cameras, lots of them.
If everyone is prepared, there will be lots of raves.
They do not want the complaints that the D7000 created 
because the extra resolution shows user error more better.

But, I think the D800 will be easier to use.
It is FullFrame with pixel size slightly larger and the Processing, metering, and AutoFocusing are all improved.


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## Derrel (Feb 21, 2012)

Best summary article I have seen to date: The Online Photographer: Myths About Megapixels (...And, Does the D800 Have Too Many?)

[h=3]Myths About Megapixels (...And, Does the D800 Have Too Many?)[/h]_By_ *Ctein*​


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## 2WheelPhoto (Feb 21, 2012)

<----"ain't skeered"

and if the D800 is so good Derrel buys a few i might have to pic one up too


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## EchoingWhisper (Feb 22, 2012)

Moire would be almost non-existent if you print small. Diffraction would also be less of an issue if you print small. Same goes to the blur caused by shaking hands. If you do print big, you'll face those problems, but it's the same as printing big using a sensor with smaller resolution. If you are really keen on hiding diffraction, moire and blur caused by shaking hands, you could always downsize the picture then upsize again. That way you would hide them, but you'll not be using the full potential of your camera.


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## EchoingWhisper (Feb 22, 2012)

Read this - The Real Megapixel Myth


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## EchoingWhisper (Feb 22, 2012)

There's a myth that higher resolution shows flaws easier. This is because they're examining their picture at 100%. That is not true because if both were displayed at the same magnification, it wouldn't have much difference. Same goes to noise performance, if a high res-ed sensor's image is displayed at the same size as the lower res-ed sensor's image, they'll have the same noise performance as long as the technology is similar.


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## Trever1t (Feb 22, 2012)

We all know that the first 100,000 users of this new magnificent camera are going to be posting 100%++ crops all over the internet to show the prowess of 36.3MP...Nikon is making clear to the public the necessary techniques. Yes, it is going to show more detail, defect included. 

I ain't scared, nervous as heck yes, but not skeered! 



By the way, I have posted this link in my "D800 Announced" thread 2 or 3 days ago


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## analog.universe (Feb 22, 2012)

bertsirkin said:


> What really surprise me in this document, is that Nikon is recommending using LiveView with the D800 to help avoid mirror vibration. I suspect holding a DSLR with 2-hands while looking at the LCD is much less steady, however, than using your head/eye as an additional steadying point. I guess it's a "name your poison" situation - mirror vibration or camera shake.



This is actually a technique I've used with good result, depending on the situation.  I find it most useful in the "somewhat sketchy but not too bad" range of shutter speeds..  like 1/15 to 1/60.  Sometimes it makes all the difference.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Feb 22, 2012)

What gets me is Nikon employs the SAME sensor as the D4, then throws a truckload of megapixels at it to decrease FPS and ISO performance compared to the D4.

Guess Sony had a "bulk rate" offer on sensors


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## Trever1t (Feb 22, 2012)

Were you expecting a mini-D4? That's probably not going to happen for the time being


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## 2WheelPhoto (Feb 22, 2012)

Trever1t said:


> Were you expecting a mini-D4? That's probably not going to happen for the time being



Naw, just amazed they choked the D800 down to sell the D4 for more and then Nikon brags about its truckload of pixels as a selling point is all.  No biggie I may own one if its all that anyway


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## Trever1t (Feb 22, 2012)

Well I'm sure the forum will have a flood of D800 samples in say...30 days


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## Vtec44 (Feb 22, 2012)

Some high ISO comparison between D800 and D700.  I'm not sure how legitimate this is but it looks interesting...

Nikon D800 vs. Nikon D700 high ISO comparison | Nikon Rumors


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## Derrel (Feb 22, 2012)

Vtec44 said:


> Some high ISO comparison between D800 and D700.  I'm not sure how legitimate this is but it looks promising...
> 
> Nikon D800 vs. Nikon D700 high ISO comparison | Nikon Rumors



Looks as-expected, to me. The D800's sensor is as Hogan stated, "at least two generations newer" than the one used in the D700. And, the electronics are newer. All in all, it appears that at the very High ISO values like 12,800 and 25,600, the huge increase in pixel count allows the D800's images to have Noise Reduction applied to them and to create a much cleaner, less-noisy image than the D700 can do with it's 1/3 as many photosites.

At 6,400 ISO, the D800 capture looks VERY clean!!!


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