# Strange Dilemma - Black Shadows in my Photos. Help



## rxe08 (Apr 14, 2017)

I need help diagnosing a problem I have been having lately with my Nikon F3.

I took this camera to a Unique Photo store and stumped all four guys who came to help.

As you can see in the attached photo, an inconsistent black shadow is appearing in some of my exposures. I have ruled out the camera strap, and after examination, the shutter does not "stick".

This happens without flash, and does happen with multiple lenses.

Help! I don't want to risk ruining any more photos.
Any ideas?


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## 480sparky (Apr 14, 2017)

I'd say the mirror isn't moving up and out of the way.......... either fast enough or not far enough.


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## dxqcanada (Apr 14, 2017)

I agree with Sparky ... the shutter is horizontal, so that can't be it ... the mirror moves vertically, and that is the only other thing between the film and the lens.


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## rxe08 (Apr 14, 2017)

Thank you. What can I do to fix this problem?


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## 480sparky (Apr 14, 2017)

Send it to a repair shop.


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## BlackSheep (Apr 14, 2017)

When you say some of the photos, is it (for example) the 3 photos you show all directly in a row, or does it happen once every few frames instead? Are you able to show us what the strip of negatives  looks like?


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## rxe08 (Apr 14, 2017)

BlackSheep said:


> When you say some of the photos, is it (for example) the 3 photos you show all directly in a row, or does it happen once every few frames instead? Are you able to show us what the strip of negatives  looks like?



It happens randomly. 9 out of 36 were effected on this roll, not all in a row. 

Is it possible that the battery needs to be replaced? Or if the mirror isn't moving properly, can it be lubricated?


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## compur (Apr 14, 2017)

Yeah, it could be sluggish mirror movement. Or some other part is flopping around. 

The F3 shutter travels horizontally so it wouldn't be a sticky shutter but it could be a loose _part _of the shutter blades flopping around and getting in the way. Or some other loose part.

When you take photos in portrait format (as those in your post above) do you rotate the camera clockwise or counter clockwise? That will tell you if the obstruction is at the top or bottom of the film  gate area.


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## BlackSheep (Apr 14, 2017)

Do you have the negatives to look at? What I'm wondering  about  is if the light leak shows on the negatives themselves. The issue could be with the camera like Dennis and Sparky were saying, but it could also be a problem that happened when the film was developed or when those prints were made.


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## dxqcanada (Apr 14, 2017)

The F3 has a foil shutter (like the Canon F-1N), so no multiple blades.


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## rxe08 (Apr 14, 2017)

compur said:


> Yeah, it could be sluggish mirror movement. Or some other part is flopping around.
> 
> The F3 shutter travels horizontally so it wouldn't be a sticky shutter but it could be a loose _part _of the shutter blades flopping around and getting in the way. Or some other loose part.
> 
> When you take photos in portrait format (as those in your post above) do you rotate the camera clockwise or counter clockwise? That will tell you if the obstruction is at the top or bottom of the film  gate area.



I rotate clockwise.
Assuming this is sluggish mirror, how do I go about lunricating it? Oil, WD40? Ideally I would like to try and fix this myself before I put my next roll of film in.


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## 480sparky (Apr 14, 2017)

BlackSheep said:


> Do you have the negatives to look at? What I'm wondering  about  is if the light leak shows on the negatives themselves. The issue could be with the camera like Dennis and Sparky were saying, but it could also be a problem that happened when the film was developed or when those prints were made.



Light leaks create white splashes on the prints....not black.  A light leak will show up black _on the negative_.


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## rxe08 (Apr 14, 2017)

BlackSheep said:


> Do you have the negatives to look at? What I'm wondering  about  is if the light leak shows on the negatives themselves. The issue could be with the camera like Dennis and Sparky were saying, but it could also be a problem that happened when the film was developed or when those prints were made.



Yes, here's a quick shot of one of the negatives. 
I was worried light leak at first, but wouldn't it be the opposite color?


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## BlackSheep (Apr 14, 2017)

480sparky said:


> BlackSheep said:
> 
> 
> > Do you have the negatives to look at? What I'm wondering  about  is if the light leak shows on the negatives themselves. The issue could be with the camera like Dennis and Sparky were saying, but it could also be a problem that happened when the film was developed or when those prints were made.
> ...



Yep sorry I mis-spoke with the "leak" part, I should have said light interference or something like that. I was thinking that there are multiple ways where the OPs issue can happen, and was mostly wondering about whether it shows on the negatives  or just on the prints.


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## BlackSheep (Apr 14, 2017)

rxe08 said:


> BlackSheep said:
> 
> 
> > Do you have the negatives to look at? What I'm wondering  about  is if the light leak shows on the negatives themselves. The issue could be with the camera like Dennis and Sparky were saying, but it could also be a problem that happened when the film was developed or when those prints were made.
> ...



Ya I shouldn't have said light leak sorry about that! My thinking was more about if the problem happened when the prints were made since I've seen something similar to that before (I was a photo printer many years ago). But seeing the neg it does look like a camera issue, so hopefully the guys can help you with that!


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## dxqcanada (Apr 14, 2017)

Take lens off, and trip shutter ... look at mirror movement when camera is vertical.
The dark shape on the images are different, so there may be more to this.


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## dxqcanada (Apr 14, 2017)

ss-it.de/data/servicemanuals/F3%20(V.%202).pdf


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## rxe08 (Apr 14, 2017)

dxqcanada said:


> Take lens off, and trip shutter ... look at mirror movement when camera is vertical.
> The dark shape on the images are different, so there may be more to this.



The mirror looks like it's operating fine. I just put another roll of film in, so we'll see what happens. 

If anyone reading this knows how I could fix this myself, I would love to try it.


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## 480sparky (Apr 15, 2017)

rxe08 said:


> ...............If anyone reading this knows how I could fix this myself, I would love to try it.



Fixing cameras, even old film ones, is typically not a DIY project.  You'll need special tools and an intimate knowledge of how to disassemble/reassemble the camera.  You could end up with 50 loose parts before you get to the root of the problem.

And this all assumes you know what, exactly, the problem is. Is it just in need of cleaning?  Lubrication? Is a part missing or broken? If so, where can you source that part?


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## gsgary (Apr 15, 2017)

Are you sure it was not the strap, take the strap off a shoot a roll

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk


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## Derrel (Apr 15, 2017)

Gary might have the answer.


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## 480sparky (Apr 15, 2017)

gsgary said:


> Are you sure it was not the strap, take the strap off a shoot a roll.............



Already addressed:



rxe08 said:


> .............. I have ruled out the camera strap, ...................


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## gsgary (Apr 15, 2017)

480sparky said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> > Are you sure it was not the strap, take the strap off a shoot a roll.............
> ...


Still looks like it to me it's not a straight line on negative 

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk


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## 480sparky (Apr 15, 2017)

gsgary said:


> 480sparky said:
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> > gsgary said:
> ...



Mirror is moving during the exposure.


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## rxe08 (Apr 15, 2017)

gsgary said:


> Are you sure it was not the strap, take the strap off a shoot a roll
> 
> Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk


One of the shots shows myself taking the photo in a mirror. The reflection shows no camera strap over the lens, which is how I ruled that out.


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## gsgary (Apr 15, 2017)

480sparky said:


> gsgary said:
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> > 480sparky said:
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I thought he had ruled out the mirror 

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk


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## gsgary (Apr 15, 2017)

rxe08 said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> > Are you sure it was not the strap, take the strap off a shoot a roll
> ...


I can't see it being anything else, one of the photos shows it across the corner of the photo


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## 480sparky (Apr 15, 2017)

gsgary said:


> rxe08 said:
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> > gsgary said:
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There's no law of physics that dictates the mirror must stop moving when the shutter opens.  If the mirror is still able to move while the shutter opens, that would cause the mirror to be recorded at an angle.


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## gsgary (Apr 15, 2017)

480sparky said:


> gsgary said:
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> > rxe08 said:
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I'm glad my cameras don't have mirrors to go wrong

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk


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## 480sparky (Apr 15, 2017)

gsgary said:


> I'm glad my cameras don't have mirrors to go wrong
> 
> Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk



I can guarantee you it's chock full o' other parts that can 'go wrong'.

Sent from a Tin Can using Quantum String Theory


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## gsgary (Apr 15, 2017)

480sparky said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> > I'm glad my cameras don't have mirrors to go wrong
> ...


Leica  film cameras don't go wrong

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk


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