# Does anyone have any recommendations for off site storage?



## Rock Shots (Apr 19, 2016)

I'm so sorry if I'm posting this in the wrong place but I have a TB of images that I want to make sure never get lost.  Theyre all on an external hard drive and I want backup just in case the external crashes one day.  Where do you guys go to store all your images safely just just in case your computer crashes or external hard drive crashes?  Also, how does it work?  Do you become a member of the storage website?  Then upload all your images to the site so theyre stored somewhere safe?  What do you do if your external hard drive crashes?  Do you buy another external and re upload all your images from the storage website back onto the new external so you have your images backed up in two places again?  Thanks!


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## table1349 (Apr 19, 2016)

If you use the search function and search for image storage, digital image storage etc.  there have been plenty of threads on the subject.   This is because there are about as many different methods as there are photographers.


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## Thomas Falater (Apr 27, 2016)

Not exactly what you're asking but I store on TWO separate external hard drives and keep them in different places. - Thomas Falater


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## Watchful (Apr 27, 2016)

Backblaze is one I use.
Also saving for photos to mdisc BDs is a great way to make archives yourself that will last for at least a thousand years, not just 8 - 10 that other optical discs last.
Its best to use both methods if your data is valuable.


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## jcdeboever (Apr 27, 2016)

Rock Shots said:


> I'm so sorry if I'm posting this in the wrong place but I have a TB of images that I want to make sure never get lost.  Theyre all on an external hard drive and I want backup just in case the external crashes one day.  Where do you guys go to store all your images safely just just in case your computer crashes or external hard drive crashes?  Also, how does it work?  Do you become a member of the storage website?  Then upload all your images to the site so theyre stored somewhere safe?  What do you do if your external hard drive crashes?  Do you buy another external and re upload all your images from the storage website back onto the new external so you have your images backed up in two places again?  Thanks!


I have a redundant system were an identical drive is mirrored to the data drive. My critical files / family pics are burned on a blue ray disc and stored in a fire proof safe. Amazon offers unlimited storage to Prime members and non Prime members, it is very affordable and worth a look. Their model is safe and secure, I recommend them highly. 

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## wamason (Apr 27, 2016)

This is more info than you wanted, but I use a Synology Diskstation onsite (4 drives in a RAID array, single drive failure tolerance).  The Diskstation sync its photo folders to Amazon Cloud Drive as my backup.  With a Prime account, you get unlimited storage.


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## Watchful (Apr 27, 2016)

Files can survive up to 10 years on a HDD if it doesn't fail or become corrupt and is in storage. Optical discs can last up to 8-10 years under ideal conditions (no one has ideal conditions in their home).
Mdiscs can last more than 1000 years.
You need to decide if you want to keep files for more than 10-12 years.


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## table1349 (Apr 27, 2016)

Wow, I still have data from 1978 from our first Apple II computer and never bothered with an mDisk.  It has nothing to do with deciding how long you want to keep your files.  It all comes down to how diligently you are in storing data and backing it up.   

If you want off site cloud storage check out Amazon Cloud Drive.    Good little article on the basics. Storage 101: Secure, Accessible Options at Home and in the Cloud


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## Watchful (Apr 27, 2016)

gryphonslair99 said:


> Wow, I still have data from 1978 from our first Apple II computer and never bothered with an mDisk.  It has nothing to do with deciding how long you want to keep your files.  It all comes down to how diligently you are in storing data and backing it up.
> 
> If you want off site cloud storage check out Amazon Cloud Drive.    Good little article on the basics. Storage 101: Secure, Accessible Options at Home and in the Cloud



I will bet you a thousand dollars those are NOT original files, but copies of copies...lol 
I, for one, do not want to spend hours or even days every few years copying all the files that managed to survive from the last copy project and find out what ones didn't survive. I much prefer to store it one time and access it whenever I like and be sure it will be accessible, to me that is worth a lot.
The longest lasting and most stable commercially available data storage medium is the Mdisc.
When 5D storage is more readily available that will be the longest lasting.


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## gsgary (Apr 27, 2016)

Watchful said:


> Files can survive up to 10 years on a HDD if it doesn't fail or become corrupt and is in storage. Optical discs can last up to 8-10 years under ideal conditions (no one has ideal conditions in their home).
> Mdiscs can last more than 1000 years.
> You need to decide if you want to keep files for more than 10-12 years.


Have you got one that is 1000 years old ?

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## table1349 (Apr 27, 2016)

_"Finally, if you want to read your archive of M-Discs in 1,000 years, you’ll need to find a DVD player. In a day and age where floppy disks were created and destroyed in 20 years, and optical discs are fast being ushered out of existence by portable form factors like the smartphone, tablet, and MacBook Air, do you really want to push all of your chips towards M-Disc? Rather than regularly copying backups from one medium to another to ensure integrity and contemporaneity — which is how it’s done today — are you sure that it’s wise to spend thousands of dollars on a storage medium that might be antiquated in just a few years?"_
M-Disc is a DVD made out of stone that lasts 1,000 years | ExtremeTech

1TB of data would need 200 + mdisk's.  At $140 for a pack of 50 that works out to be $560.00 per Tb.  That's cost effective isn't it?

This might help your save you time on backups. The absurdly simple guide to backing up your PC

One of the simplest solutions would be a personal cloud server that is automatically backed to an off site cloud server.  Access any time, any where, with reliable backup.


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## Orrin (Apr 28, 2016)

My oldest photos (60+ years) are on B&W negatives!  They will probably last another 60 years, and you don't need any modern equipment to look at them... just a light and maybe a magnifying glass!


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## Watchful (Apr 28, 2016)

gryphonslair99 said:


> 1TB of data would need 200 + mdisk's.  At $140 for a pack of 50 that works out to be $560.00 per Tb.  That's cost effective isn't it?
> .


Why would you buy the smallest versions if cost effectiveness is your main gripe? You can buy 100gb discs for $86.00 for 5 and so a Tb is only $172.00. That, to me makes a lot more sense if you are making a very large archive right off the bat. That comes to $0.172 (17¢) per Mb which to me is a great deal for storage you don't have to worry about for the rest of your life.


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## table1349 (Apr 29, 2016)

Watchful said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> > 1TB of data would need 200 + mdisk's.  At $140 for a pack of 50 that works out to be $560.00 per Tb.  That's cost effective isn't it?
> ...


You left out the price of an optical drive that can read and write to mdisk.  That's another $119.00 bringing you total up to $291.00  for write only disks.  For $45.00 I can buy a 1Tb hard drive that is not only readable but re-writeable.  At $45.00 I could buy 6 and have change left over.  Or for $70.00 I could get 4 2Tb drives or 2 4Tb drives.   For your initial $175.00 just for the disks I could get a 4Tb personal cloud drive that can be configured to automatically backup to an off site cloud storage location.   You can access you data anywhere, have it safely backed up and not have to drag a bunch of stuff around. 

Optical drives in the computing world are fading away.  Cloud computing is taking over.  More and more companies such as Microsoft provide their programs via the cloud.  Like it or not, subscription service software is becoming more and more prevalent. 

Apple doesn't install optical drives any longer in their machines.  Many Windows based pc makers are starting to do the same.  This technology's path is similar to several other like it. 

From the Radio we went to wire then real to real tape recorders.  Big, bulky and not transportable.  Along came the 8 Track player that was soon replaced by the cassette player, that itself was replaced by the CD that is now being replaced by online music services where you purchase only the songs or music you want.  CD's were supposed to be the thing of the future, as they grew the price was to come down.  It didn't and now they aren't.  CD sales are dropping.  True audiophiles don't listen to CD's they listen to vinyl which is making a bit of a come back, as is film in photography.

From the movies we went to TV.  From TV we went to the VHS and Betamax so we could record and watch on demand.  VHS won the battle and Betamax disappeared.  Along came the DVD and VHS has now disappeared.  DVD's are beginning to fade as the Bluray has taken over.  Bluray and DVD sales have begun to stagnate with services like Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, Apple etc.  You can even buy the movie for life from them and watch it anytime virtually anywhere. 

The one thing that has endured is the hard drive, be it a spinning platter or the solid state drive.  It continues to be used for the recording of music, television and movies via various devices.   Both my wife and my vehicles have HD storage in the sound systems of our vehicles where we can store the music of our choice.  A common thing these days.   The iPod and the other similar portable devices are hard drive driven via flash memory for music, video and games.  Smart phones are hard drive driven via flash memory.  Tivo, Contour etc. use hard drives to save TV content, hard drives are used for whole house entertainment via wifi.  All of it not only readable, but rewritable. 

Optical devices have come and they are on their way out.  You may have your disk for the supposed 1000 years, but what will you play it on?  What do you do when you want to edit a photo, add or remove some?  Do you spend $85.00 so you can make changes or spend $85.00 so you can make a new set of duplicates to store.

Since almost the beginning of the home PC, and certainly since the real growth in the popularity and use of the home PC the hard disk has been storage device of choice.  They have gotten better as well as bigger.  They have even become solid state.  But they are still present, are still a main component of any computer system that is purchased, cheap, reliable and easily replaced.  Cost for storage is negligible these days.  SSD storage is getting quite reasonable in price as well.   The hard disk in it's varied form is still the best, most convenient and quickest method of data storage.  It and tape are still the two methods used for commercial backup as they are reliable, cheap, easily configured for redundant backup and readable/writeable/rewritable faster than any other method. 

A good system of redundant backup - with the simple act of keeping one copy off site for safety, be it your self or with a cloud service is a perfectly good system.  Oh yes, you also forgot to double your price for you mdisks if you want to keep a copy off site bringing that cost up to $350 for two 1Tb copies of the data.  House burns down and they melt just as easily as regular cd's, dvd's, bluray's and PC's.


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## gsgary (Apr 29, 2016)

Watchful said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> > 1TB of data would need 200 + mdisk's.  At $140 for a pack of 50 that works out to be $560.00 per Tb.  That's cost effective isn't it?
> ...



If they last because they have not been tested for even 20 years


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## Watchful (Apr 29, 2016)

They were tested and passed DOD testing simulating the aging with highly intensified UV and white light in amounts they would receive over that period as well as temperature and humidity at high levels. It is how testing is done on all things since no one wants to wait 1000 years for a result. Lol
Mdisc uses a layer of inorganic material that is etched by the high power laser instead of an organic dye layer and a separate reflective layer where the dye breaks down over time rendering the data irretrievable and the reflective layer gets scratched causing read errors.
The DOD knows how to keep data and how to destroy it completely when they want it gone. Its what they do.
I also use DOD erasure procedures to delete sensitive data.
Read more about mdisc here
Above I said 17¢ per mb, it should have been per GB.l


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## gsgary (Apr 29, 2016)

Watchful said:


> They were tested and passed DOD testing simulating the aging with highly intensified UV and white light in amounts they would receive over that period as well as temperature and humidity at high levels. It is how testing is done on all things since no one wants to wait 1000 years for a result. Lol
> Mdisc uses a layer of inorganic material that is etched by the high power laser instead of an organic dye layer and a separate reflective layer where the dye breaks down over time rendering the data irretrievable and the reflective layer gets scratched causing read errors.
> The DOD knows how to keep data and how to destroy it completely when they want it gone. Its what they do.
> I also use DOD erasure procedures to delete sensitive data.
> ...


I still don't think they will last that long

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## Watchful (Apr 29, 2016)

gsgary said:


> Watchful said:
> 
> 
> > They were tested and passed DOD testing simulating the aging with highly intensified UV and white light in amounts they would receive over that period as well as temperature and humidity at high levels. It is how testing is done on all things since no one wants to wait 1000 years for a result. Lol
> ...


Well the DOD does, and I do and a lot of other testing labs do, and besides, I know for a fact that you won't last that long (human lifespan is at most 100 years or so), so I guess you are even.


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## gsgary (Apr 29, 2016)

Watchful said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> > Watchful said:
> ...


I'll stick to negatives

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## gckless (May 3, 2016)

By the time a DVD would be even close to losing data, we will more than likely have some new form of storage. It might still be optical, might even be in DVD format, but it will be of much higher capacity, which will probably need new equipment to read/write. You guys are looking at the longevity of the current technology, but are forgetting how quickly digital technology is developed and replaced. Who knows anyone still using laserdisc? I mean we have 6TB single-bay 3.5" HDDs available at home for crying out loud! We never though this was possible even 5 years ago. DVDs will still be around and readable, and I'm not saying you're going to want to completely convert your library, but by the time a DVD would be unreadable, you will probably be able to store tens of DVDs on a single piece of gear.


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## table1349 (May 3, 2016)

Watchful said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> > Watchful said:
> ...



And they have never been wrong now have they????


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## paigew (May 3, 2016)

I use backblaze as well, along with google drive. Even amazon prime has free unlimited storage, I usually put older client work on amazon to free up storage space.


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## SquarePeg (May 3, 2016)

+1 for Amazon cloud. Affordable and easy to use. You can access from anywhere and storage is currently unlimited including RAW files.


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## astroNikon (May 3, 2016)

I think in a thousand years the first thing to come to mind isn't going to be if my M-Disk is readable.


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## table1349 (May 3, 2016)

astroNikon said:


> I think in a thousand years the first thing to come to mind isn't going to be if my M-Disk is readable.


Perhaps we should ask this guy if it even lasts that long. 





Love Mel Brooks and Carl Reiner.


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## Dave442 (May 3, 2016)

Maybe the OP needed a backup of himself as he never came back.


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## Derrel (May 3, 2016)

I store a bunch of my stuff off-site at my former in-law's place, which is about 145 miles distant. They have a nice collection of under-utilized outbuildings, all newish, with good roofs.


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## Watchful (May 3, 2016)

Give him the address so he can do that too. :


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## table1349 (May 3, 2016)

Derrel said:


> I store a bunch of my stuff off-site at my former in-law's place, which is about 145 miles distant. They have a nice collection of under-utilized outbuildings, all newish, with good roofs.


Have they been there for 1000 years???


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## bundleofjoy (May 4, 2016)

You can use external hard disk for off site storage.


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