# Artichokes



## redbourn (Dec 28, 2015)

My latest attempt to get lighting and placing better.

Couldn't make the greens darker without affecting the potatoes.

I could of course if I selected each piece of cilantro in PS

This is a vegetarian/vegan Moroccan recipe by Chillie Başan and I like her recipes.
I will use less liquid next time but it was very good.
She suggests serving with couscous which I didn't do.
I rarely serve two starches.

Comments and feedback please.

Thanks


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## chuasam (Dec 28, 2015)

You're cooking for eating rather than for photos. Use the peas raw or even lightly blanched if you want to preserve the colour. Again, the white bowl is not flattering for the food. The light is still too harsh and not enough shadows. 
The current trend is to make it more rustic and almost as if you're interrupting a meal to get the shot. The pink placemat does not flatter the food. A wooden table is better. If you don't have a wooden table, print wood grain on plain paper and use it as your setting. 

You're thinking as a cook rather than as a food stylist. 

I look forward to seeing what you have next


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## gsgary (Dec 29, 2015)

Looking at the food in the shot there is no way I could eat it looking like it does


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## Braineack (Dec 29, 2015)

you also probably dont want to show a slice of lemon in that bowl of food...   at least most folks dont eat lemons like that.


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## redbourn (Dec 30, 2015)

chuasam said:


> You're cooking for eating rather than for photos. Use the peas raw or even lightly blanched if you want to preserve the colour. Again, the white bowl is not flattering for the food. The light is still too harsh and not enough shadows.
> The current trend is to make it more rustic and almost as if you're interrupting a meal to get the shot. The pink placemat does not flatter the food. A wooden table is better. If you don't have a wooden table, print wood grain on plain paper and use it as your setting.
> 
> You're thinking as a cook rather than as a food stylist.
> ...



Thanks for the comments. I like the idea of making the meal look as if is partly eaten. I tried some photos on Facebook using with and without cutlery.

What color plate would you have used.

I used this site to help me choose the placemat color.

Color Harmonies: complementary, analogous, triadic color schemes

I like the idea of raw peas but I want to eat the food afterwards ;-) Do you think they should be greener?


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## redbourn (Dec 30, 2015)

Braineack said:


> you also probably dont want to show a slice of lemon in that bowl of food...   at least most folks dont eat lemons like that.



It's a Moroccan dish and they use preserved lemons. Lemons that have been preserved in salt and lemon juice for at least a month.


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## redbourn (Dec 30, 2015)

gsgary said:


> Looking at the food in the shot there is no way I could eat it looking like it does



It's a Moroccan dish and they use preserved lemons. Lemons that have been preserved in salt and lemon juice for at least a month.

From a cookbook.

*Please post a link, and not an image which isn't yours!*


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## Braineack (Dec 30, 2015)

the lemon in yours looks fresh off the tree.

that shot above is a pretty good exmaple of what to do right.


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## redbourn (Dec 30, 2015)

redbourn said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> > Looking at the food in the shot there is no way I could eat it looking like it does
> ...




Ok about a link. I understand the issue. I don't know what it exists on the web.

I scanned it from a book.


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## redbourn (Dec 30, 2015)

Braineack said:


> the lemon in yours looks fresh off the tree.
> 
> that shot above is a pretty good exmaple of what to do right.



The lemon in my photo had been in a jar of salted water for over a year.

"What to do right"?

For what?

This is where photography gets interesting.

What is a photograph for?

You like the photograph in her cookbook, but probably can't recognize one piece of food in it.

In my photo you might be able to recognize every bit of food on the plate.

She sold  few thousand copies of her book at most.

Jamie Oliver has now earned over three million dollars from his cook books! 

$300,000,000 !

I am doing my book for fun and hope it will help beginning cooks or those that think that they can't cook.

But what do the photos in Jamie Oliiver's books look like.

Family-friendly hints and tips for a lighter New Year’s Eve - Jamie Oliver | Features

No knives and no forks etc. Nothing to distract from the food.

He's doing something right. He's selling food.

I have over 1500 Facebook friends and over 100 followers and many want to buy my book.

Michael Redbourn | Facebook

I bought lots of props and nice cutlery and showed photos with and without them and people always liked the photos without them.

They thought the props and cutlery pointing towards the food etc. just distracted from the food.

So I want photos for my book that foodies will buy.

My real interest in coming to to this site is to get comments on lighting and colors etc.

I appreciate your comments and it's an interesting area.

What is a photo for?


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## tirediron (Dec 30, 2015)

redbourn said:


> What is a photo for?


In your case, to sell books.  Plain and simple.  The images are the 'hook' - no one is going to buy a cookery book which is page after page of text.  You have to make the images appealing to people; an earlier responder hit the nail on the head.  You're photographing food cooked to eat.  NOT food made to photograph.  

Watch this video.


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## redbourn (Dec 30, 2015)

tirediron said:


> redbourn said:
> 
> 
> > What is a photo for?
> ...



Thanks.

I watched and she definitely likes white crockery ;-)

It's obviously a little problematic for me that I want to eat the food after photographing it, but I will try to find a work around.

If I didn't know how important photos were in a cookbook were then I wouldn't have bought a Nikon, lenses and lighting equipment.

Or be here ;-)

Jamie Oliver can obviously hire the best photographers in the world and either they tell him what he should do or he tells them what he wants.

I don't know which way round it works, but it works.

Recipes | Jamie Oliver

Look at how simple these photos are.

And he's sold three hundred million dollars of cookbooks.

Stew Recipes | Jamie Oliver

So many food photographers love to add background objects which so many of the public just find distracting, and his photos rarely have them.

Like I said earlier, every time I posted the same food with and without props, people said, "Get rid of them!".

So what's to be learned here?


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## beachrat (Dec 30, 2015)

redbourn said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> > redbourn said:
> ...



I think what's to be learned here is what a few posters have already mentioned.
Don't try to photograph food cooked to eat. 
When I was in construction in NYC I was on a job renovating a photo studio that specialized in product/food photography.
Most of what they shot as "food" wasn't even real,it just looked that way. I even saw a "roast turkey"," cooked" with a bernzomatic propane torch and spray paint.


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## redbourn (Dec 30, 2015)

beachrat said:


> redbourn said:
> 
> 
> > tirediron said:
> ...



I take your point and thank you.

I cook the same food for two days because I live alone and it pains me to throw one meal away.

What do you think of Jamie Oliver's photos?

They look simple but they probably aren't.

My youngest son always wants me to add more punch but I like water colors.

Just played with this for him. Very quickly in PS

My selection of the peas and leaves was done very quickly and I also added more contrast and lowered the whites a little.

Not talking about using it for the book or whether you'd eat it.

But do you prefer it to the first one.


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## beachrat (Dec 30, 2015)

I would never advocate throwing food away!
Anyway,the photos in Jamie Olivers book are very nice,and professionally done.
But,there were a few suggestions to you a few posts back about using a wooden table.
Did you notice that in several of the photos in Jamies book?
I also feel it's a start in the right direction.
To me,it translates to warmth.
I do like your 2nd edit better.


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## tirediron (Dec 30, 2015)

redbourn said:


> But do you prefer it to the first one.View attachment 113597


IMO, this is a vast improvement, but look carefully at the place mat (putting aside the fact that it's red, and red and yellow don't play nicely together), there's probably a full stop of exposure difference between the left and right sides of the image.


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## Dave442 (Dec 30, 2015)

In this recipe I think the highlight is the artichoke. How do you make that the stand out item. In the photo you made the artichoke is present, but the potatoes are almost the same color and in the same plane. The placemat (background) is distracting (not so much the color, but the pattern).  I think your lighting has improved a great deal and I think it is great to have the goal of making the cookbook and doing all the photos.

I would look for three or four slices of artichoke that are at the forefront with a balancing around them with the mint leaves and a better balance of the peas and finally the potatoes and lemon slice as sort of the base.

With that said, I took a look at your link to the Jaime Olivar page. The photos seemed very nice, what felt to me like a casual look done to perfection.  So a quick search led to the photographer that Jaime uses, David Loftus. 
David Loftus - About

He has a lot more variety on his page in the food section. I think there are 396 food photos. And of course he is on YouTube (a short video with a good tip):


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## redbourn (Dec 31, 2015)

Dave442 said:


> In this recipe I think the highlight is the artichoke. How do you make that the stand out item. In the photo you made the artichoke is present, but the potatoes are almost the same color and in the same plane. The placemat (background) is distracting (not so much the color, but the pattern).  I think your lighting has improved a great deal and I think it is great to have the goal of making the cookbook and doing all the photos.
> 
> I would look for three or four slices of artichoke that are at the forefront with a balancing around them with the mint leaves and a better balance of the peas and finally the potatoes and lemon slice as sort of the base.
> 
> ...



The first thing my son said about the photos that Jamie uses, was, "Deceptively simple".

Good idea to check out the photographer that he uses!

Some good tips in the video too.

Thank you,

Michael


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## redbourn (Dec 31, 2015)

tirediron said:


> redbourn said:
> 
> 
> > But do you prefer it to the first one.View attachment 113597
> ...



Thank you.

What caused the exposure difference?

Michael


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## redbourn (Dec 31, 2015)

beachrat said:


> I would never advocate throwing food away!
> Anyway,the photos in Jamie Olivers book are very nice,and professionally done.
> But,there were a few suggestions to you a few posts back about using a wooden table.
> Did you notice that in several of the photos in Jamies book?
> ...



Thanks.

I do have a wooden table but it's shiny.

This photo had a white tablecloth and I changed it to wood in Photoshop.


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## redbourn (Dec 31, 2015)

David Loftus bio -- pretty impressive !

David Loftus - About


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## tirediron (Dec 31, 2015)

redbourn said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> > redbourn said:
> ...


Fall off; the position of your light.


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## tirediron (Dec 31, 2015)

Here's another suggestion:  I think you might find this easier and more productive if you changed your approach.  Right now you're shooting [I assume] plates for your cookery book.  Unfortunately, these are actually very challenging subjects because they have a sameness of colour, sauces and other liquids, and seem to be in the yellow/green family which are less appetizing colours.   How about making  a couple of simple plates to start, and getting those down pat.  Something as simple as perhaps bread & butter?  Or a nice sandwich?


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## redbourn (Jan 1, 2016)

tirediron said:


> Here's another suggestion:  I think you might find this easier and more productive if you changed your approach.  Right now you're shooting [I assume] plates for your cookery book.  Unfortunately, these are actually very challenging subjects because they have a sameness of colour, sauces and other liquids, and seem to be in the yellow/green family which are less appetizing colours.   How about making  a couple of simple plates to start, and getting those down pat.  Something as simple as perhaps bread & butter?  Or a nice sandwich?




Will give it a try, thanks ..


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## chuasam (Jan 4, 2016)

I took a course in food photography. It was all trickery. Ice cream was made of crisco. Ice cubes are acrylic. Coffee is browning. Use a large softbox on the side to simulate window light. Grill marks on steak are from a long heating element. Condensation on glass is sprayed on mineral oil. We got a whole box of fruits and only used the best looking ones. 

As I've said before go look at Donna Hay.
The Dirty Tricks of Food Photographers


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## redbourn (Jan 4, 2016)

chuasam said:


> I took a course in food photography. It was all trickery. Ice cream was made of crisco. Ice cubes are acrylic. Coffee is browning. Use a large softbox on the side to simulate window light. Grill marks on steak are from a long heating element. Condensation on glass is sprayed on mineral oil. We got a whole box of fruits and only used the best looking ones.
> 
> As I've said before go look at Donna Hay.
> The Dirty Tricks of Food Photographers



It's good to know how they cheat but it's problematic for me because I want to cook the food after I photograph it.

In a clip I saw with David Loftus it looks like real and natural food is being used: not to say of course that the lettuce hadn't been dipped in cold water to make it look greener.


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## chuasam (Jan 4, 2016)

10 Food Styling Tips to Make Your Food Photographs Delicious
also, ask yourself...are you cooking for eating or cooking for photography?
They're entirely different.
Tips and Tricks for Photographing Food – Part 1 | Click it Up a Notch

and more tips A dab of Vaseline? Perfect
hope to see more of your work


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## redbourn (Jan 5, 2016)

chuasam said:


> 10 Food Styling Tips to Make Your Food Photographs Delicious
> also, ask yourself...are you cooking for eating or cooking for photography?
> They're entirely different.
> Tips and Tricks for Photographing Food – Part 1 | Click it Up a Notch
> ...



I will check them out. Thanks.

Sitting in an airport lounge in Rome waiting for a connecting flight to Athens.

10 day vacation.

So I won't be doing any food photos for a couple of weeks.

Interesting idea. You are supposed to post negative and not positive comments.

The Shark Tank


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## chuasam (Jan 5, 2016)

You're going to Athens? no excuses then. Start by practicing taking pictures of the food you're eating. I do that ALL the time.
I have noticed that bitching about camera costs and slagging other photographers seems to be the culture and norm here *LOL*


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## beagle100 (Jan 11, 2016)

chuasam said:


> I have noticed that bitching about camera costs and slagging other photographers seems to be the culture and norm here *LOL*



yeah, I use a *$100* camera and window light for my food photos !




Middle Eastern Chicken Kebabs Basmati Rice Pilaf with grilled marinated vegetables by c w, on Flickr


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## redbourn (Jan 22, 2016)

chuasam said:


> You're going to Athens? no excuses then. Start by practicing taking pictures of the food you're eating. I do that ALL the time.
> I have noticed that bitching about camera costs and slagging other photographers seems to be the culture and norm here *LOL*



Just returned from a Greek Island and had a great time.
Friendly,warm, and generous people and I am now thinking of moving from a town to a village, here in Portugal.
Came to the conclusion that people have more friends in villages than in towns.

And now have to get back to my photos!
Touché
Touché


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## Didereaux (Jan 22, 2016)

Quit arguing, and justifying.  You  asked for photographic critique and comment, but when you receive good, sound advice you argue.  Do you realize that a lot of fine food photographs are of artificial food items?  You can make good photos of some foods...a properly done roast duck etc.  But vegetables when cooked do NOT look appealing when photographed.   Go back and do your research on photograph foods.  The net has a ton of vids and blogs that deal with that.


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## Didereaux (Jan 22, 2016)

We are wasting our breath here folks.  She has made up her mind and is only searching for someone to agree with her.  Lock the thread it is a dead end.  Three pages, with lots of good advice and she argued against every one of them.


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## chuasam (Jan 28, 2016)

the simplest photographs are often the hardest to do.
Here's another photographer to look at 
John James Sherlock | Food, product and interiors photographer based in Vancouver, Canada

my advice is to learn much much more about food styling first.
Here's a good food stylist. Print - Fong on Food
I shot his wedding a few weeks ago.


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## chuasam (Jan 28, 2016)

Just to show you that I'm not talking out my arse.
Here's a couple of shots I did in school back in 2011.



 
ISO 640 50mm f/2.2 (shot it with a 50mm f/1.4 lens) camera was a D700



 
ISO 200 56mm (lens was a 24-70 f/2.8) 1/160s using studio strobes.
Camera was a D700


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