# My First Restaurant / Food Photo shoot! C&C please



## Parker219 (Aug 29, 2014)

Hello everyone!

So, there is a local company that sells spots in their magazines to restaurants to help promote them. Well technically I am not hired on with this company yet, because after interviewing me, they want me to go on a "trial run" to see if they like my work. If they do, I will get paid for my shoots by the company, as well as have the opportunity to sell the restaurants the photos for an additional fee. 

Example: - 5 photos make the magazine, but I still have 120 more photos that made the editing process cut, so I can put those on a disc and give them to the client for X amount. ( I was thinking $400 ) It took me 4 hours, and I think $100 an hour is fair. That was an hour driving, 2 hours at the restaurant, and 2 hours editing. 

Anyway, I have 120 photos at this point, and I need to narrow it down to 40 to send to the company, and they choose the 5 that are used. 

I have NOT chosen my 40 yet and I have NOT sent them any photos of the shoot yet, so if I need to edit these, I can.  That's why I am asking for help.

Any advise you can give would be helpful, photos or business wise.

The company told me to resize the photos before sending them in, and they should be "no more than 8 by 11". I was thinking to send them in 1800 pixels on the long side. Sound about right?

For the ones I put on a disc for the client, should I have those bigger?

I don't expect anyone to give C&C on every photo, but any general thoughts, or photos that you would definitely NOT submit, or ones you think stand out, or need to be edited differently. Anything helps.

Thank you!


1. 

JT-Final0075 by linktheworld219, on Flickr


2. 

JT-Final0072 by linktheworld219, on Flickr


3. 

JT-Final0066 by linktheworld219, on Flickr


4. 

JT-Final0026 by linktheworld219, on Flickr


5. 

JT-Final0023 by linktheworld219, on Flickr


6. 

JT-Final0009 by linktheworld219, on Flickr


7. 

JT-Final0004 by linktheworld219, on Flickr


8. 

JT-Final0143 by linktheworld219, on Flickr


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## Designer (Aug 29, 2014)

IMO, you could use some help with styling.  The first three shots have huge flowers that do not appear to be food, so why are they positioned so close to the food?

Shot #5 of several dishes seems poorly composed.  The bottle, the glass, and the furniture in the background are simply distracting.  And besides; this group seems like quite a lot of food for one serving, which is what one might expect to see at one time.  And then one plate is on the junction of two tables.  It's as if you are afraid of wasting film so you put as much in the shot as will fit.

Numbers 6, 7, & 8 exhibit a shallow DOF which is not good, and the composition is off on all three as well.  

Your lighting seems good in all.


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## Parker219 (Aug 29, 2014)

Designer said:


> IMO, you could use some help with styling. The first three shots have huge flowers that do not appear to be food, so why are they positioned so close to the food?
> 
> Shot #5 of several dishes seems poorly composed. The bottle, the glass, and the furniture in the background are simply distracting. And besides; this group seems like quite a lot of food for one serving, which is what one might expect to see at one time. And then one plate is on the junction of two tables. It's as if you are afraid of wasting film so you put as much in the shot as will fit.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the feedback! 

Its funny, because the restaurant owners came out to put those huge flowers on the plate, I was not sure how I felt about it, took some photos with them, then took them off and took some more...



JT-Final0111 by linktheworld219, on Flickr


I hear ya on the background being distracting, I was torn between showing the background, so you know its in a restaurant and darkening the shadows, so its pretty much black. I will maybe submit 1 edit of each, so they can decide?

They didn't have 1 long table, so yes, I had to combine tables, so there are junctions...should I have put a white table cloth down or something?


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## Rudipides (Aug 29, 2014)

Agree with previous posts.  The thing that got me is on #6,  I want to see what that big orange item is that is not in focus.  Im curious!! 

thanks


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## Braineack (Aug 29, 2014)

very nice and a very timley post.

I was actually looking up a restaurant this morning that I'm going to be patronizing next weekend and it's a perfect example of how poor food photos can be: Hooked Restaurant | 80th Street Ocean City Maryland

there is no comparing your "trial" pictures to these published ones--night and day.



I prefer 1-5 over 6-8.  The last three imho are just a bit too close up, too low angle, too shallow dof, and they are getting a little blue.

The lighting is very lovely on these and I really think you have it pretty much nailed.  Is this just a large softbox above and to the side of the subject?  I don't think it would hurt to bring in a little fill to the left of frame.

And the first five shots show a real effort in thinking about composition.  I think if you get to do more in the future that you should put more effort into arrangements/backgrounds to really bring them to the next level.  I'm not a food photographer by any stretch, but I know it's tough trying to figure out how to frame/crop and still end up with a good shot of food.


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## KmH (Aug 29, 2014)

Parker219 said:


> so I can put those on a disc and give them to the client for X amount. ( I was thinking $400 )


How much were you going to charge for the use licensing?
Your charge should be more like $400 per photo.

How about $20,000 for 13 photos.
Case Study: Producing A Successful Estimate | DigitalPhotoPro.com


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## Parker219 (Aug 29, 2014)

^ Thanks for the comments and that link.  I liked the first photos of that website, but then the next ones look dark and like they were taken by a completely different photographer. 

I went back and did a batch edit, turning down the blue saturation to -30. It looks like the plates now look whiter and cleaner.

The light is this one - Lowel Ego Digital Imaging Fluorescent Light (120VAC) E1-10 B&H

Then just a white reflector on the other side, but yes, I need to get another one of those lights. 

Here are 2 with the blue taken out...

9. 

JT-Final0093 by linktheworld219, on Flickr



10. 

JT-Final0130 by linktheworld219, on Flickr


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## Parker219 (Aug 29, 2014)

KmH said:


> Parker219 said:
> 
> 
> > so I can put those on a disc and give them to the client for X amount. ( I was thinking $400 )
> ...



I was thinking $400 for the use of the licensing for ALL of the photos.

I could try and charge $400 for 1 photo and sell zero. Or I could sell them all for $400 and make $400.

This is a 1 restaurant mom and pop type place.  However yes, with a bigger company with deeper pockets, I can see getting a lot more.


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## Parker219 (Aug 29, 2014)

Rudipides said:


> Agree with previous posts. The thing that got me is on #6, I want to see what that big orange item is that is not in focus. Im curious!!
> 
> thanks



Haha...thanks!

Just for you...I think its a carrot flower!



JT-Final0082 by linktheworld219, on Flickr


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## tirediron (Aug 29, 2014)

If this is your first foray into food photograhy, I predict very good things in your future.  Some excellent points already raised; keep at it!


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## waday (Aug 29, 2014)

Parker219 said:


> Example: - 5 photos make the magazine, but I still have 120 more photos that made the editing process cut, so I can put those on a disc and give them to the client for X amount. ( I was thinking $400 ) It took me 4 hours, and I think $100 an hour is fair. That was an hour driving, 2 hours at the restaurant, and 2 hours editing.



1 hour driving + 2 hours at restaurant + 2 hours editing = 5 hours? So, $100/hr = $500?

I really like photos 9 and 10!


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## Parker219 (Aug 29, 2014)

waday said:


> Parker219 said:
> 
> 
> > Example: - 5 photos make the magazine, but I still have 120 more photos that made the editing process cut, so I can put those on a disc and give them to the client for X amount. ( I was thinking $400 ) It took me 4 hours, and I think $100 an hour is fair. That was an hour driving, 2 hours at the restaurant, and 2 hours editing.
> ...



Whoops, good catch. I know I didn't have my coffee yet, but 1 plus 2 plus 2 should still be 5. ha

So $500 for all of the photos sounds about right.


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## Rudipides (Aug 29, 2014)

Now I would buy this dish if this is the picture I saw in a menu!  Even from the straight down angle.  I thinks its lunch time. 





JT-Final0082 by linktheworld219, on Flickr[/QUOTE]


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## Braineack (Aug 29, 2014)

I like the straight down angle.  shame on the cropped corner.


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## Parker219 (Aug 29, 2014)

hmmm, I wonder why I did that, let me go look at the original RAW file...

Ok, I just BARELY saved the corner...



JT-Final0082 by linktheworld219, on Flickr


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## tirediron (Aug 29, 2014)

I'd "build" a little more table around the plate.


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## Braineack (Aug 29, 2014)

then correct for square


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## Parker219 (Aug 29, 2014)

Should be easy enough.


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## vintagesnaps (Aug 29, 2014)

You got some nice photos of the table settings and food, when you want to include backgrounds you might need to think about your vantage point and how to get what you want showing in the frame, those are the compositions that seem like they could use some improvement. That's a photography skill you'll need to have or develop to do the type photography where you're working with what's there.

Did you have a a contract? You'll need to know what you're charging/being paid before you take photos for someone and what the intended usage will be. Your anticipated pricing seems low, but it depends on how the photos will be used (menu, print ads, website) and for how long. What does the client expect to pay? The restaurant might be happy with the photos because of the low price or they may not even want to pay what you're expecting to get. You could charge at a lower to mid range price for a smaller business especially since this seemed to be a limited menu selection but still should probably be within the going rate if you intend to continue to do work in photography.

If you're going to do commercial work you could check out Photo District News, they often cover that type of photography. Photo Magazine | Professional Photography Industry News and Resources


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## Derrel (Aug 29, 2014)

KmH said:


> Parker219 said:
> 
> 
> > so I can put those on a disc and give them to the client for X amount. ( I was thinking $400 )
> ...



This is the second time I have see this trotted out for food photos shot for a LOCAL, ONE-location, privately owned restaurant. The $20,000 use license for 13 photographs, was done in a deal in which the end client went through a midwest advertising agency, and what makes this an utterly ridiculous article to quote in the OP's situation is that, "the *restaurant chain *had more than *500 locations across the U.S.*, and they were working with the agency to refresh their website and integrate it with social media and online marketing."

The $20k for 13 images article is in the realm of the deep pockets of the BIG, big, big fish. Nation-wide. Over 500 locations. A restaurant so big it has its own website, and its own social media channels, and it has the services of an advertising agency, and it actually periodically updates/refreshes its on-line images. The $20,000 for 13 images territory is not within the same circles as some small-town bistro or small restaurant.

When you come right down to it, *$400 for this small set of photos is EXORBITANTLY MORE money on a per-impression basis*, than is $20,000 for 13 pics used by over 500 restaurants, on nation-wide media platforms. Given the miniscule reach of the advertising of a single-shop restaurant with no national exposure, $400 for these images is one hell of a good deal for a beginning food photographer in today's flooded market. Nation-wide, 500+ outlet chain restaurant with a huge advertising budget, versus some one-owner bistro. The dollar figures are not going to be the same. Major League Baseball stars can make millions of dollars per year; the 20 year-olds playing minor league baseball might clear $500 a week.


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## KmH (Aug 29, 2014)

You right.

We should not let people know that real money can be made from doing photography.
Give your photos away to businesses that can and do make real money using your photos, so they can make more real money.

A well run lunch and dinner restaurant that has a good steady clientele can make beaucoup money, and a smart business person would do some research on that restaurant before setting a price.
I would make an estimate of the average check the restaurant generates according to their meal prices and how many checks per month the restaurant might generate on average.
I would also start with a high price but be be willing to negotiate with the restaurant decisions maker(s).
After all, Orlando is a major tourist destination.

Why do you want to keep the young man down? Why not show him a way he can soar?

I prefer to let the OP make his own judgement about pricing for the restaurant he wants to sell to. The link simply shows that there is more than $400 to be made.
If the OP wants to be short sighted and business ignorant to value his work in a way today that will likely make it very hard to make money later it won't be because I held him back.


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## Parker219 (Aug 29, 2014)

^ Interesting. 

My pricing is based on how much money I think the establishment can afford.  Is that bad?


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## Designer (Aug 29, 2014)

Parker219 said:


> ^ Interesting.
> 
> My pricing is based on how much money I think the establishment can afford.  Is that bad?



Sorry, that is unrealistic.

1. You really don't know for sure what they can "afford", you're just guessing.

2. What the pictures can generate in revenue is also not any of your business.  You're running photography business, not a restaurant.  

3. If the owners cannot meet your price, there are options; negotiate a lower price, or find a cheaper photographer, or devise a new marketing strategy.  Still not your call unless they wish to negotiate.


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## Parker219 (Aug 29, 2014)

^ Gotcha. I will keep that in mind.  Thank you


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## Derrel (Aug 29, 2014)

KmH said:


> You right.
> 
> We should not let people know that real money can be made from doing photography.
> Give your photos away to businesses that can and do make real money using your photos, so they can make more real money.
> ...



You are being ridiculous, and introducing a RIDICULOUS strawman argument here, Keith. The shooter in the article your referenced, an established Chicago-area professional, got a job through an advertising agency. Chicago is the "catalog photography capitol of the USA," with a HUGE concentration of accomplished, seasoned professional advertising shooters who shoot catalog and other commercial work every day. *The guy who got the $20,000 13-image license was an ESTABLISHED professional who was good enough for a large corporation's advertising agency to trust him* with the job. *The OP here shot his VERY-first-ever food shoot.* His FIRST SHOOT, for a small business. And I can guarantee you--he shot this with ZERO ad direction and ZERO layouts and NO advertising agency involvement. You're talking Major League Baseball money, and we're talking Iowa summer league legion ball...

And again, as I pointed out correctly, and factually, the per-impression fee for the OP's imnags at $400, for ONE, single restaurant's use is exorbitantly MORE-lucrative than 13 images at $20,000 for the use of OVER 500 chain-owned restaurants! Get a clue, man...advertising based on USAGE means that the OP here is making a KILLING at $400, as opposed to the guy who charged only $20,000 for 13 imags to be used by FIVE HUNDRED RESTAURANTS.

I am showing him a way he can soar--at his current experience level. He cannot possibly get Fortune 500 company accounts in today;'s market. Come on...you're spewing "advice" that is so far off the market  and so far off the target it's not even funny. You're talking about entering a young guy with one season of go-kart racing in the Indianapolis 500, dude. Come on...the "soaring" part you're talking about is a ridiculous case of cherry-picking something from the world wide web! No offense to the OP, but if he can manage to get payed $400 for these images, he's doing a damned good job, because they are not that good--*not $20,000-500 outlet corporate restaurant-advertising agency campaign-good*. And he is certainly NOT capable of landing a 500-plus national restaurant chain campaign handled by ANY big advertising agency for a big fish in the restaurant field! The pictures used by national restaurant chains are shot by EXPERIENCED, very capable shooters who are at the height of their careers. Again...you do not "soar with the eagles" on your very first-ever job in ANY field. Your pipe dreams seem wayyyyy of-based and fantastical.

Are you telling him he needs to ask for $20,000? LOL!!!! You are cherry-picking an exceptional case, and trying to say it's applicable to a beginner's FIRST-EVER food shoot. Your argument is a flightless bird...sorry.


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## tirediron (Aug 29, 2014)

Designer said:


> Parker219 said:
> 
> 
> > ^ Interesting.
> ...


If all you're doing is trying to make beer money, or having a little fun on the side, it's fine.  If you want to run a business, make money and put food on the table, then as designer mentioned, it is totally unrealistic.


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## Parker219 (Aug 29, 2014)

Derrel said:


> *The OP here shot his VERY-first-ever food shoot.  TRUE, literally my very first. I am surprised you guys didn't boo me off the stage or kick me out of the forum.
> 
> * His FIRST SHOOT, for a small business. And I can guarantee you--he shot this with ZERO ad direction and ZERO layouts and NO advertising agency involvement. You're talking Major League Baseball money, and we're talking Iowa summer league legion ball...for the blind
> 
> No offense to the OP, but if he can manage to get payed $400 for these images, he's doing a damned good job, because they are not that good.   I don't see how anyone could possible take offense to THAT...Although you haven't gave any feedback on how to make them better.



=-)


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## Derrel (Aug 29, 2014)

Parker, PM me tonight, mmkay? I hear that Patrick Demarchelier is going on vacation, and maybe you and me can meet up and shoot a $100,000 campaign for one of the Vogue advertisers. You down with that?

Advertising | Patrick Demarchelier

How to make those better? Practice, practice, study food and table-top photography practice and theory, practice some more,incessantly work on your technique, hire an actual food stylist, throw a year's worth of money and effort at the issue, you'll get better. But somehow I do not think that within this decade that you will be getting hired to shoot food photography for Fortune 500 corporations with outlets in every state in the union. But of course, you might; who knows, for a first effort these are okay,so hey, maybe you'll be shooting all of McDonald's food shots in four years. 

But the composition on some seems unclear, and not too well-conceived from a subject/background POV, and some of the latter ones suffer from some depth of field issues. Tabletop photography can be done a bunch of different ways, and the OLD way involves having a camera with movable front and rear standards, for depth of field shifting/optimization, as well as the ability to correct apparent perspective distortion or to deliberately EXAGGERATE it, to make objects look unnaturally exaggerated in a favorable way. With a camera that has a fixed back, you have a much more-limited ability to exaggerate or correct shapes than with a view camera. There are a number of books written about this sub-field. This is an entire genre of photography that can take YEARS to become really good at. Do you know how to focus stack? DO you have access to a tilt-shift lens or at least a good macro lens set, so you can control foreground/background angles and size relationships?


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## Parker219 (Aug 30, 2014)

Derrel said:


> There are a number of books written about this sub-field. ( that's how I was able to come up with what I did, I read about it for awhile ) This is an entire genre of photography that can take YEARS to become really good at. Do you know how to focus stack? ( Yes ) DO you have access to a tilt-shift lens ( No ) or at least a good macro lens set ( Yes ), so you can control foreground/background angles and size relationships?




Let me know if you need me to go on that $100,000 campaign. :greenpbl:


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## Parker219 (Aug 30, 2014)

It seems like you guys like photos that have no distractions from the background...like these?



JT-Final0087 by linktheworld219, on Flickr




JT-Final0122-2 by linktheworld219, on Flickr


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## bogdanbucurofficial (Sep 10, 2014)

[emoji106]


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## jamesbjenkins (Sep 10, 2014)

Parker219 said:


> hmmm, I wonder why I did that, let me go look at the original RAW file...
> 
> Ok, I just BARELY saved the corner...
> 
> ...



IMO, you could really have used a large white reflector opposite your key light. Or, just have a second light to kill the shadows across the whole top of the plate...

like John said, if this is your first attempt at food photography, you're going to be fine. These aren't bad at all for a first set.

Cheers!


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## Parker219 (Sep 15, 2014)

^ Good Point.

Thank You


BTW - this photo shoot lead to - My SECOND Restaurant photo shoot! | Photography Forum


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