# Quit smoking, started vaping, feel a lot better.



## o hey tyler (Apr 18, 2015)

Howdy friends, I was curious to know if anyone on the forums was a fellow vaper. 

I quit smoking last year, and started vaping. Using only liquids that were derived naturally (Vegetable Glycerin, no Propylene glycol). And through doing so, I made a few progressions as far as what vape I started with to where I'm at now. 

I started with one of those junky EGO battery tank/combo. Prone to leakage and not a very satisfying vape. 

I recently upped the ante and got a Smok Xpro M36 and a Kangertech Sub Tank (designed for coils with a resistance of less than one ohm.)

It was ~$100 USD for the setup, but man, it's good. That being said, I'm fairly new to vaping. If you have questions, I will do my best to answer them. 

Here are some very poorly executed photos from today. 






















Some people said it looked like a screwdriver or something from Dr Who? Any ideas? Others thought it was a blow torch. It is quite comical all the looks I get.


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## jake337 (Apr 18, 2015)

Skip the e-cig.  Get a Pax 2.  Vape the good stuff.


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## o hey tyler (Apr 18, 2015)

jake337 said:


> Skip the e-cig.  Get a Pax 2.  Vape the good stuff.


lol, I just got a GravLabs Turbine. I don't have another $200+ to throw at the Pax. ;-)

Turbine - Grav Labs

Designed by Steve Bates. He's friends with one of the shop owners around here. We've hung out a few times. One of the few guys in glass blowing that has a scientific glass blowing degree.


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## gsgary (Apr 18, 2015)

I think it will turn out to be as unhealthy as smoking just glad I never smoked


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## o hey tyler (Apr 18, 2015)

Okay Gary, thanks for your opinion, you have a great day!


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## AlanKlein (Apr 18, 2015)

Nicotine Anonymous


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## runnah (Apr 18, 2015)

I wouldn't want to hang out with anyone who didn't have at least one vice.


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## table1349 (Apr 18, 2015)

First it's vaping nicotine, then butane honey oil hash, then they move on GHB and finally LSD in its natural liquid state.  When will the madness end????


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## o hey tyler (Apr 18, 2015)

I do not really find any of those intriguing other than the vaping and perhaps the BHO, but I was looking to keep this thread on topic please and thank you.


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## table1349 (Apr 18, 2015)

Health risks of e-cigarettes emerge Science News


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## o hey tyler (Apr 18, 2015)

gryphonslair99 said:


> Health risks of e-cigarettes emerge Science News



Again, I'm asking nicely. I would like to keep this on topic, and you're not really doing that. I've read the studies, and I've also done my own research. I buy from companies that disclose their ingredients and are reputable. I only buy VG (vegetable glycerin - food grade) liquids. I even go so far as to use organic cotton coils. So if you're going to try and exercise some sort of internet machismo by posting on my thread, rethink your strategy. I'm more informed about a topic that you just googled for the first time today.


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## gsgary (Apr 18, 2015)

o hey tyler said:


> Okay Gary, thanks for your opinion, you have a great day!


One of my best friend's went on to this crap within 3 months he was get severe chest pains


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## table1349 (Apr 18, 2015)

o hey tyler said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> > Health risks of e-cigarettes emerge Science News
> ...


If you were as "Informed" as you claim, you would never have started smoking in the first place and then felt the need to Vape to continue the addiction?  It'm glad that you are feeling better but quitting all together would be much better than trading one potential health risk for another.


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## o hey tyler (Apr 18, 2015)

Wow the ignore feature has been significantly improved.


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## rexbobcat (Apr 19, 2015)

I don't mind vaping since its infinitely more pleasant than cigarettes, however, I think some people think that just because it's not cigarette smoke, it's fine to do basically _everywhere.
_
There was a guy I sat next to very briefly in a college class that would freakin vape while the professor had his back turned. If someone wants to vape in relaxed company that's fine, but a classroom is a captive audience that probably doesn't want to take notes through a fog of scented vapor.

I'd much rather hang around people who vape than people who smoke, though. At least if one of my friends is vaping at a bar or at a party my first thought isn't "Where can I sit/stand to best avoid the brunt of that all night" like with cigarettes.

And compared to the effects of smoking, I've heard from people that their health does improve after going off cigs and vaping instead.

Congrats on quitting.


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## Tinderbox (UK) (Apr 19, 2015)

I have never smoked, but i do think that people who cannot quit or just don't want to should try vaping over normal cigarettes it`s got to be better for you, but i do think the equipment and liquids need regulation for safety sake as some people dont know what they are smoking from the bargain basement end of the market as china is not know for it`s safety regulations.

John.


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## o hey tyler (Apr 19, 2015)

rexbobcat said:


> I don't mind vaping since its infinitely more pleasant than cigarettes, however, I think some people think that just because it's not cigarette smoke, it's fine to do basically _everywhere.
> _
> There was a guy I sat next to very briefly in a college class that would freakin vape while the professor had his back turned. If someone wants to vape in relaxed company that's fine, but a classroom is a captive audience that probably doesn't want to take notes through a fog of scented vapor.
> 
> ...



I agree Dave. I still go outside, unless I'm in my apartment by myself. I wouldn't vape indoors unless whoever I was with was OK with it. But I would rather know that first thing because my aim is not to piss anyone off. I'm surprised the school even let that fly.


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## pgriz (Apr 19, 2015)

I don't smoke, and most of my immediate family don't either, partly due to the example of my father-in-law who loved to smoke, and paid for it with his life.  Combustion products (whether in smoke or in high-temperature cooking) are usually carcinogenic because of the formation of benzine (and similar aromatics) rings which interact with DNA and contribute to transcription errors.  So anything that reduces the harm caused by smoke it generally a good thing.  I know of some people who are vaping, and they seem to be quite happy with both the experience and the perceived relative safety.  There is a move in a number of jurisdictions to regulate e-cigarettes and vaping products as tobacco products.  Part of the concern is the interaction of the oils and glycols with the mucosa - the long term effects are not yet known.  It may turn out to be a non-issue, or it may show effects that are currently not anticipated.  I suspect that the relative safety will also depend on whatever additives may be added to the liquid, and keeping track of which one cause problems and which ones are safe will be quite difficult.

In some ways this is similar to the medical marijuana issue, where while the anecdotal evidence is pretty compelling, the science-based testing is lagging partly due to the lack of standardized delivery mechanisms, doses and purity.  It is difficult to organize a truly double-blind testing regime unless one can get ingredients of known purity, potency and dosage (and placebo products that give the same experience without the active ingredient).  And yet, that testing is what is needed to put THC in the same class as other regulated medicines.

@o hey tyler :  Don't mean to hijack your thread, but discussions of the "cons" of vaping are not based on much evidence, so much better information is needed before we can say if vaping is truly an improvement over smoking or not.  At least from my perspective, it's a better way than smoking, but then, there's also much that is currently not known.


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## manny212 (Apr 19, 2015)

Well my story is as follows . My wife got me a  Vape thing , forgot what brand , and two years ago . I was very skeptical at first since I was a longtime smoker and figured this was just another gimmick . My wife , being the persistent lady that she is , bugged my to death so I stared to use it , to shut her mainly , LOL. 


From the day I picked that thing up I never had another cigarette . About after  1 year of vaping , I was already on the 0 nicotine level , I left my vaporizer on a friends boat . Now I debated going to buy another vaporizer ( 75 bucks ) or heck just forget it since I was at 0 nicotine anyhow . I chose the latter and am happy to report that I just had my 2 year anniversary of being smoke free .


I know some will poo poo this vapor thing as a fad , or dangerous or any number of other things people seen to come up with nowadays , but at least for me this was literally a life saver and a game changer . Enjoy your vape !!!


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## o hey tyler (Apr 19, 2015)

pgriz said:


> I don't smoke, and most of my immediate family don't either, partly due to the example of my father-in-law who loved to smoke, and paid for it with his life.  Combustion products (whether in smoke or in high-temperature cooking) are usually carcinogenic because of the formation of benzine (and similar aromatics) rings which interact with DNA and contribute to transcription errors.  So anything that reduces the harm caused by smoke it generally a good thing.  I know of some people who are vaping, and they seem to be quite happy with both the experience and the perceived relative safety.  There is a move in a number of jurisdictions to regulate e-cigarettes and vaping products as tobacco products.  Part of the concern is the interaction of the oils and glycols with the mucosa - the long term effects are not yet known.  It may turn out to be a non-issue, or it may show effects that are currently not anticipated.  I suspect that the relative safety will also depend on whatever additives may be added to the liquid, and keeping track of which one cause problems and which ones are safe will be quite difficult.
> 
> In some ways this is similar to the medical marijuana issue, where while the anecdotal evidence is pretty compelling, the science-based testing is lagging partly due to the lack of standardized delivery mechanisms, doses and purity.  It is difficult to organize a truly double-blind testing regime unless one can get ingredients of known purity, potency and dosage (and placebo products that give the same experience without the active ingredient).  And yet, that testing is what is needed to put THC in the same class as other regulated medicines.
> 
> @o hey tyler :  Don't mean to hijack your thread, but discussions of the "cons" of vaping are not based on much evidence, so much better information is needed before we can say if vaping is truly an improvement over smoking or not.  At least from my perspective, it's a better way than smoking, but then, there's also much that is currently not known.



No need to apologize. When you have something to say, you say it well. I always appreciate your mindset and insight.


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## weepete (Apr 19, 2015)

Good on you Tyler! 

I've been vaping for about a year, started with e-gos and Kanger T2s, moved on to Evods then a protank and an MPV then I found mech mods and got a Fogger V4.2 and a Stingray mod (clone). At the moment I'm vaping with a Kato Mod (clone) with a Fogger V4.3 and Sony VTC5s which are 30a high drain batteries. My nomal coils are about 0.7-0.9 ohms. Went through a few liquids: Kingslayer, Sqid Ink, Accies Rhubarb and Custard, Mrs Lords Vanilla Sandwich, Minion Farts etc. Mostly settled on mixing my own e-liquid from Flavourart's Black Pearl with a wee bit of Strawberry and Watermelon added. Love my custards but they gunk up the coils and make me wheeze so I'm back on the fruits.


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## weepete (Apr 19, 2015)

Oh and I've a dripper too but it's a PITA, I prefer my tanks.


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## jsecordphoto (Apr 19, 2015)

I've thought about picking up an e-cig. I tried them when they first came out and they tasted foul and chemically to me (oh the irony, I complain they taste "chemmy" and I smoke literal cancer sticks). I smoke about a pack a day now, sometimes more if I'm driving and shooting all day/night. I've smoked for about 10 years and I just feel like garbage pretty often, obviously after a night photographing the milky way and I smoke like a pack, and doing more hiking and stuff I really notice how bad I feel. 

Not only do I smell like gross cigs from smoking already, but also if I'm out shooting I "field-strip" the cigs and put the butts in my pocket as not to litter....so my clothes end up smelling heinous. I got sober a little over 2 years ago now, so quitting smoking was NOT an option for a while, but lately I've been thinking more about it. My buddy bought one of the e-cigs a few weeks ago in an attempt to eventually quit completely, and I tried it out and it wasn't too bad...didn't taste weird or anything. I don't really want to get into one of the crazy vape set-ups as honestly I feel like it looks douche-y (maybe that's just all the hipsters in my area I see blowing giant cumulonimbus clouds of vapor everywhere). 

Every time I think about quitting smoking I get all anxious, so maybe the e-cig will help. Since getting sober it's definitely coffee+cigs all day...tough to quit


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## weepete (Apr 19, 2015)

One of the biggest things is finding an e-liquid you like and can be used as an all day vape mate. Not all liquids are equal and some are a lot better than others.


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## o hey tyler (Apr 19, 2015)

jsecordphoto said:


> I've thought about picking up an e-cig. I tried them when they first came out and they tasted foul and chemically to me (oh the irony, I complain they taste "chemmy" and I smoke literal cancer sticks). I smoke about a pack a day now, sometimes more if I'm driving and shooting all day/night. I've smoked for about 10 years and I just feel like garbage pretty often, obviously after a night photographing the milky way and I smoke like a pack, and doing more hiking and stuff I really notice how bad I feel.
> 
> Not only do I smell like gross cigs from smoking already, but also if I'm out shooting I "field-strip" the cigs and put the butts in my pocket as not to litter....so my clothes end up smelling heinous. I got sober a little over 2 years ago now, so quitting smoking was NOT an option for a while, but lately I've been thinking more about it. My buddy bought one of the e-cigs a few weeks ago in an attempt to eventually quit completely, and I tried it out and it wasn't too bad...didn't taste weird or anything. I don't really want to get into one of the crazy vape set-ups as honestly I feel like it looks douche-y (maybe that's just all the hipsters in my area I see blowing giant cumulonimbus clouds of vapor everywhere).
> 
> Every time I think about quitting smoking I get all anxious, so maybe the e-cig will help. Since getting sober it's definitely coffee+cigs all day...tough to quit



Kangertech Starter kit KangerTech

You may want to try out something fairly simple like this if it interests you. Not a major investment as far as price point is concerned. I'm sure if Pete knows of a better route to take with a starter kit he will chime in. I just have used Kanger and know they make a good product.

I had the same feelings about Cigs. I hated smelling like them especially when I went back into work and had to facilitate training for new hires. Felt like I was imposing due to the cigarette smell. Now I don't have to worry about that at all.


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## o hey tyler (Apr 19, 2015)

weepete said:


> One of the biggest things is finding an e-liquid you like and can be used as an all day vape mate. Not all liquids are equal and some are a lot better than others.



Would you mind posting a photo of your setup? I'm always interested in other peoples rigs!


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## rexbobcat (Apr 19, 2015)

o hey tyler said:


> rexbobcat said:
> 
> 
> > I don't mind vaping since its infinitely more pleasant than cigarettes, however, I think some people think that just because it's not cigarette smoke, it's fine to do basically _everywhere.
> ...



Well, to be honest, the professor was one semester from retirement meaning he was at the "I don't care" point. Universities in general are also behind on legislating vaping since its popularity is still somewhat new. There are a few universities that have begun to treat it more like smoking, though.


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## snerd (Apr 19, 2015)

Is the vape thing just for enjoyment, or used as a means to quitting smoking? Or both? Forgive my ignorance, this stuff came out long after I quit smoking 13 years ago. Which, of course, was the hardest thing I've "ever" had to do in my entire life! I smoked 2 packs a day for 30 years, and used the patches, M&M's and toothpicks to quit.


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## o hey tyler (Apr 19, 2015)

snerd said:


> Is the vape thing just for enjoyment, or used as a means to quitting smoking? Or both? Forgive my ignorance, this stuff came out long after I quit smoking 13 years ago. Which, of course, was the hardest thing I've "ever" had to do in my entire life! I smoked 2 packs a day for 30 years, and used the patches, M&M's and toothpicks to quit.



I do enjoy it. I mean, I have already considerably cut back my nicotine intake. From what used to be 2 packs of american spirits a week. Not heavy, I know. But still.


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## manny212 (Apr 19, 2015)

snerd said:


> Is the vape thing just for enjoyment, or used as a means to quitting smoking? Or both? Forgive my ignorance, this stuff came out long after I quit smoking 13 years ago. Which, of course, was the hardest thing I've "ever" had to do in my entire life! I smoked 2 packs a day for 30 years, and used the patches, M&M's and toothpicks to quit.


I used it as a tool to quit. And, for me at least, worked perfectly. Did I enjoy it? Can't say either way, my mind was set on quitting, which imho is the #1 thing here.


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## Buckster (Apr 19, 2015)

Years ago when vaping was still relatively new, I thought it might allow me to smoke without having to go outside, so I bought a highly recommended unit.  I didn't really care for it though, so I didn't use it long.  Eventually, I gave it to my daughter, who wanted it to cut back on her smoking.  It didn't work for her either.

After about 40 years of smoking, things got pretty bad for my lungs.  By then I'd spent years waking up every morning and hacking and coughing up all kinds of vile things, and it would take as long as a half an hour spewing junk into the sink before I could breathe again.  On the morning of February 17, 2012, I looked up into the mirror after another daily morning ritual of hacking up goobers session and saw the horrible sight of an old man, beet-red-faced, gasping for air, sweating, haggard.  At that moment, I said, "I'm done".  I never smoked again.

I gave away several packs of cigarettes still in the carton, along with the half a pack that was open to someone else who smoked my brand.

Turns out I have emphysema.  To breathe, I use a couple of medicated inhalers a few times per day, as needed.

Enjoy your smoking, while you still can, but quit as soon as possible.


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## weepete (Apr 19, 2015)

o hey tyler said:


> Would you mind posting a photo of your setup? I'm always interested in other peoples rigs!



Sure mate, here's one I took just now of my current rig. If I remember I'll post a shot of my coils  when I recoil it.


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## weepete (Apr 19, 2015)

o hey tyler said:


> jsecordphoto said:
> 
> 
> > I've thought about picking up an e-cig. I tried them when they first came out and they tasted foul and chemically to me (oh the irony, I complain they taste "chemmy" and I smoke literal cancer sticks). I smoke about a pack a day now, sometimes more if I'm driving and shooting all day/night. I've smoked for about 10 years and I just feel like garbage pretty often, obviously after a night photographing the milky way and I smoke like a pack, and doing more hiking and stuff I really notice how bad I feel.
> ...



That kit looks pretty good and Evods are the best non rebuildables I've tried. Normaly I say get a couple of Evods and a couple of batteries to try it out. Battery life is the big thing to consider when making the switch. Its fine if you can get to a charging point you can just get 2 and have one on charge. I work away a bit so I needed to go for 1800mah which did me about 6 hrs. Only use the charger that came with your batteries to charge them though, don't charge them overnight. There's been a few issues with people charging e-gos with a 510 charger.


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## weepete (Apr 19, 2015)

snerd said:


> Is the vape thing just for enjoyment, or used as a means to quitting smoking? Or both? Forgive my ignorance, this stuff came out long after I quit smoking 13 years ago. Which, of course, was the hardest thing I've "ever" had to do in my entire life! I smoked 2 packs a day for 30 years, and used the patches, M&M's and toothpicks to quit.



Can be any of the above. Personally I'm using it as an alternitive to tobbaco but some people use them sucessfully as NRT to cut down on nicotene and quit.


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## shefjr (Apr 19, 2015)

Congrats on working towards quiting Tyler! My parents both used similar contraptions to what you are using to quit. It seems to have worked for them although, they both say they still get cravings once in a while. I hope you can keep it up! Good luck my friend.


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## pgriz (Apr 19, 2015)

One of the reasons that addictions can be so difficult to kick is that the brain's neuroplasticity can enhance certain neural connections that tie the addictive substance or behaviour to the reward system (ref: Pharmacology of Nicotine Addiction Smoking-Induced Disease and Therapeutics).  That is in addition to other physiological effects caused by the addiction.  Once the connections are made (and reinforced through use) they persist for a long time.  Therefore even if the physiological effects have long worn off, the neural pathways remain.  How they get deactivated isn't very clear.  But it does explain why the cravings persist.

Anyway, vaping still allows the delivery of the nicotine while effectively eliminating the combustion by-products of smoking.  However, according to some reports, vape smoke is not completely innocuous (ref: Vaping may not be as safe as smokers think research suggests Society The Guardian), with production of free radicals (while 100x less than what is found in cigarette smoke, they are still present), and some concerns about the ability of the very tiny particles that make up the "smoke" to penetrate cell tissues and potentially cause inflammation (ref: Research on vaping starts to clear smoke on possible health effects - York Dispatch.  

The other components of the vaping liquid also need scrutiny.  The presence of metals in the liquid results in them being carried into the body through the microparticles of the vapour.  What will their effects be on the body?  No-one knows.  And given that anything that is in the vaping liquid effectively get carried deep into the lungs, it becomes really important (at least in my mind) that the specific ingredients of the liquid are known, quantified and are as pure as drug delivery systems.

So it seems that this new type of product "should" be much better for the body than is tobacco smoke, it still is not risk free.  This is an intriguing subject.  I'm going to continue doing reading on some of the issues raised in the reports, if only to satisfy my own curiosity.


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## Allenkerky (Apr 20, 2015)

gsgary said:


> I think it will turn out to be as unhealthy as smoking just glad I never smoked



That is my guess as well. Probably just different sickness and maybe more acute?


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## gsgary (Apr 20, 2015)

Allenkerky said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> > I think it will turn out to be as unhealthy as smoking just glad I never smoked
> ...


A friend of mine got really bad chest pains about a week after he started and they stopped as soon ss he gave up, lots of kids are starting that have never smoked I think they think it's cool


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## weepete (Apr 20, 2015)

gsgary said:


> Allenkerky said:
> 
> 
> > gsgary said:
> ...



Not true Gary. According to the research done never smokers who are regular vapers are less than 1%. Over 99% of vapers are people who have smoked tobbaco cigarettes.


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## mmaria (Apr 20, 2015)

I live under a rock.
I've never heard about the vaping before.


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## weepete (Apr 20, 2015)

At the moment there is a lot of BS and misinformation around vaping, from both the pro and the anti vaping camp. It's perpetuated by extremely poor science reporting in the media. There's also polical camps with people in public health circles who are so against vaping that they are are being disengenuous and playing fast and loose with the statistics. 

Methodology of a lot of research papers are still in question with reseachers using previous generation of e-cigs to get their data. One of the major issues is the use of machines to produce the vapour for the experiments and concern over if they are firing too long and burning the e-liquid and the wick as just one example.

There's also a battle being fought in the background for control over who is going to end up as the big players in the e-cig market with both Big Pharma and Big Tobbacco trying to get as big a slice of the pie as possible where most vapers want neither and would prefer to use smaler independant companies. These two groups are lobbying behind the scenes and both are pusing for legislastion that will tip the market in their favour.

Many vapers are concerned about regulation and rightly so. The EU TPD (for us in europe) will lump e-cigs in with tobbaco control measures and the big fear is that they will be regulated to the point of ineffectiveness which will push a lot of vapers back on to the stinkies.

It also needs to be born in mind that vaping offers massive benefits in a harm reduction context for those who are unable or unwilling to stop using nicotene completely and paralells are being drawn with nicotene inhalators which were approved for long term use last year by the FDA. 

When talking about the health effects of vaping it's important to frame it in context and have a comparison to smoking and while more reasearch is needed and more good quality reseach is also needed initial finding place vaping somwhere between 100-400 times safer than tobbaco cigarettes. Of course where we will really find the result is going to be in death rates in 25-30 years time when we can study smoking related diseases in long term vapers. Until then it's pretty much all speculation.


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## gsgary (Apr 20, 2015)

weepete said:


> At the moment there is a lot of BS and misinformation around vaping, from both the pro and the anti vaping camp. It's perpetuated by extremely poor science reporting in the media. There's also polical camps with people in public health circles who are so against vaping that they are are being disengenuous and playing fast and loose with the statistics.
> 
> Methodology of a lot of research papers are still in question with reseachers using previous generation of e-cigs to get their data. One of the major issues is the use of machines to produce the vapour for the experiments and concern over if they are firing too long and burning the e-liquid and the wick as just one example.
> 
> ...


I'm very anti smoking and now vaping, smoking killed my dad at the age of only 45 I won't have anyone vaping near me


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## waday (Apr 20, 2015)

@o hey tyler, I don't meant to hijack your thread, so I hope you don't mind.. Also, I would much appreciate your input. If you'd rather, I can start a new thread, but this one is already pretty active.
*
What kind of setup should my wife and I get for my father-in-law?*

Here's a quick backstory. My FIL smokes 4-5 packs a day. He wakes up, sits at his computer to read the news, and smokes one after another. Then, he goes to his job where he's a truck driver. So, he sits and smokes one after another. Then, he comes home, sits at his computer to read the news and smokes one after another until he goes to bed. Not sure if this matters, but he smokes the Marlboro red packs.

Two years or so ago, he had a health scare, so he went to the doctor. At the time, he was smoking about 3 packs a day. The doc said, quit or you're going to end up in the hospital or worse. This was just after his brother was hospitalized for smoking (all of his brothers smoke). It scared him enough that he went down to 1-1.5 packs a day. Then, he spiraled out of control and is now up to 4 to 5 packs a day. It's getting to the point that he can't even sit through dinner at a restaurant without having to leave halfway through to smoke a cigarette. It's pretty horrible.

My wife and I have discussed getting him one to at least help him cut down. It's unrealistic to think that he's ever going to quit, but if he could at least cut back, we'd be happy. At least cut back so that when he's traveling, he doesn't have to worry about trying to get several cartons through the airport without people thinking he's trying to sell them and/or evading tax. No, they're just for him.

However, we have no idea about anything related to vaping. I guess we could do a quick web search to figure it out, but if anyone on here has any insight for a long-time, really heavy smoker, we would be much obliged.  We've discussed it with him, and he seems at least interested, but he is the type of person that will not buy it for himself. Is this the type of system where it needs to be tailored to a specific person's tastes, or can we at least buy him a generic one?


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## o hey tyler (Apr 20, 2015)

waday said:


> @o hey tyler, I don't meant to hijack your thread, so I hope you don't mind.. Also, I would much appreciate your input. If you'd rather, I can start a new thread, but this one is already pretty active.
> *
> What kind of setup should my wife and I get for my father-in-law?*
> 
> ...



Good questions! And how nice of you doing the legwork on someone elses behalf! 

Personally, I would say for as heavy of a smoker he sounds to be that a similar mod system to that of WeePete or myself would be more than adequate. 

With a word of caution:  taking a drag of a vape is very different than that of an actual cigarette. I went from a very simple, non-adjustable wattage battery (commonly referred to as EGO I believe). It produced a nice vapor, as well as decent flavor, and since I started doing that I had no inclination to start smoking cigs again. I eventually got frustrated with the build quality of the ones that I had bought (They weren't Kanger's at the time which I cited as a suggestion earlier in the thread, I'm sure those are good.) So  I upgraded. 

Going from Cigs to an EGO battery based one was no big deal. Sure it was a different throat hit when I first tried it. Coughed a little bit the first few pulls, and then was totally acclimated with it. With the new rig in the first post, holy moly was I unprepared for that. Even while vaping for 6 months or so. Taking a drag off of that is something that can and will catch you off guard. It would be something you would want to make baby steps towards. A few small pulls to get used to the change in airflow/how fast it heats up (Sub ohm coils will get hot much quicker). However, the mod system is much more similar to smoking actual cigs, and that's what he would probably be in the market for. 

The only other words of advice are to buy primarily VG based liquids, as they are the higher quality ones. If you need some specifics as far as a starter setup, I can whip something up for you. You don't need something specific for a persons tastes, you can put any flavor of liquid in any tank more or less. 

How much would you be looking to spend as an initial investment for him?


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## waday (Apr 20, 2015)

You are awesome.  Thank you for the quick reply!




o hey tyler said:


> I eventually got frustrated with the build quality of the ones that I had bought (They weren't Kanger's at the time which I cited as a suggestion earlier in the thread, I'm sure those are good.) So  I upgraded.




He needs something of good build quality. He’s the type of person that if it feels cheap, it won’t work for him. So, it sounds silly, but something that is heavier, made of metal, and not made of plastic is pretty much a requirement.




o hey tyler said:


> Going from Cigs to an EGO battery based one was no big deal. Sure it was a different throat hit when I first tried it. Coughed a little bit the first few pulls, and then was totally acclimated with it. _<snip>_ However, *the mod system is much more similar to smoking actual cigs, and that's what he would probably be in the market for.*




Yes, you hit the nail on the head. He needs something that is similar to smoking actual cigs. He tried the electronic cigarettes probably a decade or so ago, and he didn’t like it. Now, that’s pretty much his impression of all e-cigs/vaping. He needs something strong and that will be similar to smoking cigarettes.




o hey tyler said:


> The only other words of advice are to buy primarily VG based liquids, as they are the higher quality ones. If you need some specifics as far as a starter setup, I can whip something up for you. You don't need something specific for a persons tastes, you can put any flavor of liquid in any tank more or less.



I know they have all types of flavors, so this might sound silly, but do they have ‘cigarette’ flavored liquids? He’d probably like that the best. Also, what are VG based liquids? If you could whip up a quick setup, that would be awesome.




o hey tyler said:


> How much would you be looking to spend as an initial investment for him?



We haven’t really discussed a price, but we realize that it’d be an investment. What is the typical cost of a system? We both kind of agreed that we could see spending $100-$150 to include both the initial investment and lots of liquid refills. Is that a good enough budget?


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## o hey tyler (Apr 20, 2015)

waday said:


> You are awesome.  Thank you for the quick reply!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Okay, well here's what I've got for you. I have a discontinued version of this tank, basically what they updated was the build quality (which is already great) and the airflow vents. You can see on mine there's three holes. That ring with the vents rotates, so there are either 1, 2, or 3 of the air holes exposed. Which can dramatically effect your experience. Now that I have adjustable airflow I love it. Depending on the liquid I can open up or close it down (like an aperture haha) for better flavor/vape production. 

Kanger SUBTANK-PLUS clearomizer KangerTech

The AWESOME thing about this tank which I have yet to get into, is that you can rebuild your own coils. So if he's crafty and likes working with his hands, there are TONS of guides on building your own coils to suit your needs. However, it's not necessary you do that. They make .5 ohm replacement coils with organic cotton which are generally what I buy. But the ability to have it be either way is pretty cool. Most tanks are either strictly rebuildable or strictly you buy your coils from the manufacturer. 

In order to be compatible with that, you'd need to get a "mod" which is capable of working with sub ohm coils. 

XPro M36 Mod Silver

This one is compatible, and this is the one that I use. There are plenty of other ones, but I have a suspicion that WeePete would know more about those than myself. 

This is the one I want, because it's sexy. But as you can see it's a bit cost prohibitive. 

Vaperev Shop - Five Pawns Edition Vapor Flask V2.1 DNA 40 - Vapor Flask - Variable Voltage Wattage - Devices

As far as liquids, yes there are definitely tobacco flavors. I'll be honest though, they don't taste like smoking a cig specifically, well because honestly that would be pretty vile. They do have a deep flavor profile and are enjoyable. Each one with individual characteristics. Some with hints of bourbon, others with creme, others more of a rugged earthy flavor similar to tobacco. 

I'll throw some liquids here that I personally have liked. 

Space Jam Juice

These are all very high quality liquids. I've had Eclipse and Venus. 

E Cigarette Buy Electronic Cigarettes Online E Juice - Mt Baker Vapor

I recently started ordering from here. Just watch when you're ordering. The higher concentration of PG (propylene glycol) is at the top. You'd probably want to get either straight VG (Vegetable glycerin) or an 80/20 VG/PG mix. I made the mistake of ordering 20/80 VG/PG at one point so it was very thin which generally is better for higher resistance coils. 

So total investment for me when I got this setup was ~150USD. With the mod, tank and some bottles of liquid. 

Where abouts are you located? Do you know if you have any vape shops near you? They often will have samples for you to try or smell if you wanted to get a good idea of what they'd be like before ordering them. 

Also, as heavy of a smoker he is, you'd probably want to start off in the 24mg nicotine range. I started at 18mg because I wasn't smoking a large amount of cigs on the daily.


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## o hey tyler (Apr 20, 2015)

gsgary said:


> weepete said:
> 
> 
> > At the moment there is a lot of BS and misinformation around vaping, from both the pro and the anti vaping camp. It's perpetuated by extremely poor science reporting in the media. There's also polical camps with people in public health circles who are so against vaping that they are are being disengenuous and playing fast and loose with the statistics.
> ...



Okay Gary, great thing is this is the internet. So no one's vaping near you. If you don't have anything of substance to contribute, I hope you have an awesome day buddy!


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## waday (Apr 20, 2015)

o hey tyler said:


> waday said:
> 
> 
> > You are awesome.  Thank you for the quick reply!
> ...


Thanks for the recommendations!! Also, I'm sorry for all the questions!

That sounds doable. Also, thanks for the tip on the VG vs PG and flavors. And different nicotine ranges. Yeah, we'll probably want to start him off on the higher amounts.

You mentioned that the VG is thicker than the PG. In the event that my FIL decides to buy his own and gets PG or a high PG:VG ratio, will that have any negative effects on the system. In other words, will he break it or destroy the coils faster?

That's pretty neat about being able to rebuild the coils. Do you know how often you have to rebuild/replace the coils? He loves fiddling with things, but usually ends up either breaking it or not knowing how to put it back together. So, I'll tell him that he shouldn't unless I'm there. Haha.

We're in Central PA, but the FIL is in Brooklyn, NY. I've heard of several shops around us, and I'm sure there are plenty around him. Maybe we'll go and browse, get an idea, and then take him to a shop in Brooklyn or Manhattan for him to decide on the flavors. Although, we may ultimately buy around us, since I'm assuming it'll be a little cheaper than NYC?


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## o hey tyler (Apr 20, 2015)

waday said:


> o hey tyler said:
> 
> 
> > waday said:
> ...



As far as I know, getting different variations of mixes won't effect the coils. At least in my experience. When I'm vaping I generally replace the coil every 1-2 weeks. Five come in a package and the packages I found were around 16 bucks. So if I did the math it's 3 bucks a week for the coils, and probably like less than 5 bucks a week depending on the liquid you get for that. So 8 bucks a week or thereabouts VS however many packs of cigs a day (@ ~7-9USD in NY I would guess). Seems like a no brainer. 

This video seems to outline some of the basics and kind of what I've been touching on. 






You may just want to smell/sample liquids and purchase in PA because you're right, it will probably cost less.


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## waday (Apr 20, 2015)

o hey tyler said:


> waday said:
> 
> 
> > o hey tyler said:
> ...


Thanks for the video and info. I'll stop with all my questions, haha. Despite the weekly cost, a single pack of cigarettes in NYC starts at ~$10, and I'm sure cartons are probably $60+. This will definitely be cheaper.


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## weepete (Apr 20, 2015)

TBH I really wouldn't reccomend a sub ohm setup for a beginner. Sub ohming really needs a bit of knowledge as the amp draw can be quite high on the battery. Same with building your own coils you really need a multimeter and a decent knowlege of ohms law to make sure you don't blow your batteries up. Though regulated mods tend to have built in protection for shorts and current draw. Though if he takes up vaping there is enough information out there to make a change to sub ohming and rebuildables if he wishes.

I'd still reccommend going for a e-go style battery and a 1.8ohm glass Evod to start with rather than a full blown mod as at the beginning it's more about getting the right liquid.

With e-liquid higer ratio VG gives more vapour, but dulls the flavour. PG gives the throat hit so he may prefer a bit more PG in his mix to start with. Most decent e-liquid vendors offer a range of mixes so you can taylor it to how you like it. 

But e-cigs are a very personal thing that often takes a few tries to get right, but there's loads of options out there now for different systems.


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## waday (Apr 20, 2015)

weepete said:


> TBH I really wouldn't reccomend a sub ohm setup for a beginner. Sub ohming really needs a bit of knowledge as the amp draw can be quite high on the battery. Same with building your own coils you really need a multimeter and a decent knowlege of ohms law to make sure you don't blow your batteries up. Though regulated mods tend to have built in protection for shorts and current draw. Though if he takes up vaping there is enough information out there to make a change to sub ohming and rebuildables if he wishes.
> 
> I'd still reccommend going for a e-go style battery and a 1.8ohm glass Evod to start with rather than a full blown mod as at the beginning it's more about getting the right liquid.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the notes. I definitely don't want anything too complicated, because it will be confusing for him and too much maintenance. I'd be okay with replacing the coils, but if I have to replace them every 7-14 days and I can't teach him how to do it, it'll be a waste of money. I live too far away to do it for him on a weekly basis.

I guess rather than dropping $100 to $150 right away, it'd be better to get him to accept a cheaper system and then gradually go to the higher end system, if he cares to upgrade.

The ideal system would be this: something that has a strong flavor like a real cigarette, is made of durable materials (either heavy plastic or metal), is easily maintained (i.e., put liquid in and go without much, if any, cleaning), and can last all day long (~18-20 hours) without having to be charged.

Is something like this available?


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## MartinCrabtree (Apr 20, 2015)

The only way to fly.


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## weepete (Apr 20, 2015)

waday said:


> weepete said:
> 
> 
> > TBH I really wouldn't reccomend a sub ohm setup for a beginner. Sub ohming really needs a bit of knowledge as the amp draw can be quite high on the battery. Same with building your own coils you really need a multimeter and a decent knowlege of ohms law to make sure you don't blow your batteries up. Though regulated mods tend to have built in protection for shorts and current draw. Though if he takes up vaping there is enough information out there to make a change to sub ohming and rebuildables if he wishes.
> ...



Hmm, the only one I've tried is an Innokin MVP. It's a variable voltage/wattage regulated mod with a 2600mah battery. That used to do me a full day and a bit before it needed recharged and I'm a pretty heavy vaper. Its a pass through device too so can be used as it is charging. Batteries will last a bit longer too if your not using low voltage coils. Pretty similar to what Tyler reccomended first. 

But exactly how long  a battery will last depends on how intensively its used. The best way of dealing with it would be two batteries and a car charger. That way he can be using one while the other charges. Ego II batteries come in 2200mah flavours so a couple of them should do the majority of the day or the full day with a couple of recharges. If he's on 100 a day then I suspect he won't want to totally chuck the tobbacco instantly but will probably want to dual fuel for a while.

As fir flaviurful e-liquids I've heard of a couple being reccomeded that are Earth Brother and Pollution as strong glavoured tobbaco substitutes, but taste is very subjective and I don't know how easy these would be to get a hold of in the USA as I'm in the UK. Tyler would probably be better placed to either find out or reccomend a sutible e-liquid.


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## TreeofLifeStairs (Apr 20, 2015)

Do you think you'll use vaping to eventually stop your intake of nicotine or is it just a new way to get it in your system?


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## waday (Apr 20, 2015)

weepete said:


> waday said:
> 
> 
> > weepete said:
> ...


Thanks for the recommendations! A second battery would be a good idea! Yeah, my FIL definitely won't chuck the tobacco at first.. Hoping to get him to cut down at first!


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## weepete (Apr 21, 2015)

TreeofLifeStairs said:


> Do you think you'll use vaping to eventually stop your intake of nicotine or is it just a new way to get it in your system?



I have no plans to stop right now, but I'm not saying that I wont quit altogether in the future. 

A few years back I did try to quit and used the nicotene inhalators for a bit. They were bloody awful things and I eventually went back to cigs. Tried patches, they didnt work. Tried the gum it was minging. Wen't cold turkey and I didn't last at that either. Vaping is the only thing I found that made me think it's workable and has really proved itself to  be workable for me. But if I wasn't vaping I'd be smoking


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## Seventen (Apr 24, 2015)

I thought at first that it was quite a good idea. Either way what ever you decided to inhale is going to have bad effects on the body. I am a non smoker and don't mind who does it but just respect others around
But I have more recently started to dislike this method of smoking. We was at the airport last year feeding the baby in a small seating area no bigger than 3x3 meters, then this man arrives sitting next to us smoking on his vape, putting head inside jacket and exhaling next to us. Asking him to stop as non smoking place, he replies I need this before getting on a plane. So we moved along..

There is some children's play areas nearby our house that has no smoking allowed inside, but people use vapes there.. Its outside but its not the point really, children like to follow what adults do, and I did the same when I was 12 - 15 my parents would smoke in the car house and about 20-30 a day each! and at school before trying it would talk about how cool it must be to smoke as all our parents did it. So the habit started at a young age and I am not proud of it, it was stupid and wish I never done it, but can't change the past, so this might be where my dislike is coming over more strong for it.

These are just two times where its bothered us directly but there is many more places seen it, young adults / teenagers sitting in mc donalds quite vape to show of to other friends. 
Even on pick your own fruit farm have seen people vape while going around, really cant you wait like 30 minutes where you can do it away from children and other people.

Sorry for going rather off topic but was just sharing my annoyance from it.


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## MartinCrabtree (Apr 25, 2015)

I've a feeling they will find this method is far worse than tobacco. You've no idea what's in that little jar and there appears to be little to no data either way. Just an observation,but have at it my friends far be it for me to tell anyone how to live. I've got issues of my own.


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## woolybear (Apr 25, 2015)

Well this is the last place I expected to find a thread on vaping, but here it is.
I've been off the stinkies for 9 months now myself and can honestly say that vaping is 100% responsible for my quitting tobacco.
It took me some time to find a mod/tank combo that worked well for me with flavors and not flooding the coils.

I got started on an EGO, then moved on to a variable voltage Vision Spinner 2. Then I needed a backup, so I got another.
Next I wanted something a little more durable as I kept snapping my Spinners in two, so I got a variable voltage Aspire CF in a Nautilus starter kit.
I fell in love with that tank systems performance, but then decided I wanted a little extra pep from my mod so I ordered an eleaf istick 30 watt 2200mah and I have finally found my vape happy place,lol.

If you guys are looking for some VERY good liquids at great prices, check out Vape Wild online for excellent variety and top notch service. They send you free samples with every order too. How many sample bottles depends on your total purchase price, but they are very affordable with free shipping.

For mods, tanks, and coils I do all my shopping online at Sweet Vapes. They are the cheapest I've found for the stuff I'm vaping on and they ship fast, and it's all authentic.
Here's my go to daily vape workhorse eleaf istick w/ Nautilous 5ml stainless tank and 1.8ohm BVC coils. I usually cook my juice between 12 and 14 watts.


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