# Help with Alien Bee lighting outdoors!



## bishrl (Apr 25, 2018)

I am hoping someone who shoots with AB's outdoors could chime in..  I shoot mostly studio and i have several AB's currently. AB1600, AB800 and 2 AB400's. I have a tiny shooting space indoors so my 1600 was too much and i felt like the 800 might be too much so i recently picked up two used ab400's thinking i would sell the 800 and 1600. But now I've been thinking about shooting outdoors as well when I do seniors or maternity shots and i'm worried that having a Ab400 wouldn't be powerful enough for outdoors. So... my question is, should i keep the 2 400's for studio and outdoors or a 400 and 800?  Thanks so much for your help


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## tirediron (Apr 25, 2018)

At only 640 w/s, the AB1600 is decent for outdoor, bright day fill, but it's not a powerhouse.  I would definitely keep it and the 800 (320 w/s) if you plan to do a lot of out of doors work.


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## bishrl (Apr 26, 2018)

Thank you so much! I’ve never shot outdoors with ofc before it’s just something I’ve been thinking about since I have strobes. I’m sure the majority of my shoots will be in studio which is why I worry about using the 1600 in my tiny space. I have used it in the past and I didn’t like that I had to dial down the lowest power on the strobe plus had to keep my fstop at like 11 at the lowest and my iso down to 125. I’m shooting with a 47”octobox with the flash bulb  inside facing the back  of the box and it’s so bright still. That’s why I bought the ab800. Lol but even that is still too much power for in studio hence the reason for the two ab400’s. I took a few test shots with the 400 yesterday In studio and I think it will be perfect for my small space but I know it won’t be enough outdoors. I really want to have 2 lights for in studio, one for main and 1 for fill. Would the ab800 be doable for outdoor work?


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## sergezap (Apr 26, 2018)

I use 400Ws Elinchroms with octaboxes for indoors portraiture, and it's more than enough. 
Sometimes I would like them to have less power output at minimum level.

I also have an Elinchrom Quadra for outdoors shooting. There is no free lunch: 400Ws is not enough to overpower the sun. It's quite usable for filling but sucks as a key light at noon. Morning/evening/cloudy weather - 400Ws is ok.


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## bishrl (Apr 26, 2018)

sergezap said:


> I use 400Ws Elinchroms with octaboxes for indoors portraiture, and it's more than enough.
> Sometimes I would like them to have less power output at minimum level.
> 
> I also have an Elinchrom Quadra for outdoors shooting. There is no free lunch: 400Ws is not enough to overpower the sun. It's quite usable for filling but sucks as a key light at noon. Morning/evening/cloudy weather - 400Ws is ok.


What about the 800? Still not enough for mid day?


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## tirediron (Apr 26, 2018)

The '800 will be okay for fill.  Combined with the 1600, it will give you a decent amount of light. It's still not going to let you knock down a high noon sun by three stops, but it will help.


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## sergezap (Apr 26, 2018)

bishrl said:


> What about the 800? Still not enough for mid day?


1200Ws is ok in any way: reflector, deflector, indirect/direct octa, ect.
800Ws - it depends.
There is an alternative: you can use big diffusion panel between your subject and the sun, and less powerful flash.


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## bishrl (Apr 26, 2018)

sergezap said:


> bishrl said:
> 
> 
> > What about the 800? Still not enough for mid day?
> ...


Thank you so much for your help!! Your work is beautiful by the way. ! Do you use strobes outdoors? If you were in my situation and shot mostly studio in a tiny space but wanted to have a light you can have in studio and outside which 2 strobes  would you keep? Ab1600, 800, 400's?  Keeping in mind that when using the 1600 before in studio since my space is so small i had to power down my light as low as it would go and shoot with an f stop of no less than 11 and an iso of 125. I prefer to shoot with a narrower DOP to help blur my BG a bit and I couldn't do that with the 1600.


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## sergezap (Apr 26, 2018)

It looks like we're pretty in same situation.
I do my "studio" work in extra small space too.
The way you can go to reduce DOF and amount of light: ND filter, black fabric curtains, brand or diy deflector for flashead, additional softbox baffle(s), indirect softboxes.
Black fabric curtains and flags helps a lot  with unnecessary color cast from furniture, floor, ect.

I would go with Ab1600+Ab800 for indoors/outdoors "universal"setup.
Planning your shootings in right time and lighting conditions is a way more superior and cheaper alternative. 
I have no any problems with my 400Ws Quadra even with Octa while shooting at the golden  hours or cloudy weather.
Sorry, but there is no budget flashlights with 10 stops of power management.

As for outdoors strobes using, my answer is yes. But rarely because i'm lazy.


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## smoke665 (Apr 26, 2018)

I rarely find the need to crank my AB400's above the halfway point in studio. Typically use anywhere from 3 to 5 light setup. My go to setting is f/8, 1/125, ISO 100. I have used 3 AB400's on a deck in bright shade with no problem. To me managing the light with the correct modifiers and having mutiple sources is far more effective rhen blasting the whole area. I had the chance to pickup a 1600 recently but passed on it as I  didn't see it helping me. If I was doing a lot of work outside, or in a larger area, especially groups i might reconsider.


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## smoke665 (Apr 26, 2018)

bishrl said:


> I really want to have 2 lights for in studio, one for main and 1 for fill.



One comment on your setup, I've found that having multiple points of light with modifiers and reflectors to control the placement is far more effective than blasting the scene with one large light. With a good incident meter, it isn't difficult to set up 3,4,5, or even 6 lights.


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## sergezap (Apr 26, 2018)

smoke665 said:


> One comment on your setup, I've found that having multiple points of light with modifiers and reflectors to control the placement is far more effective than blasting the scene with one large light.  With a good incident meter, it isn't difficult to set up 3,4,5, or even 6 lights.


 
Most time of our life we are quite happy with just one light.
I mean the sun.
   One light with big (150cm-190cm) softbox is the best way to start.
It's like mobile big and well controlled window that you can take with you anywhere.
Everybody loves shooting with window light.


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## smoke665 (Apr 26, 2018)

sergezap said:


> Everybody loves shooting with window light.



And variety is the spice of life.


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## sergezap (Apr 26, 2018)

smoke665 said:


> sergezap said:
> 
> 
> > Everybody loves shooting with window light.
> ...



This kind of life's variety costs a lot of thousands bucks.


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## mrca (Apr 27, 2018)

One reason I am an Einstein fan is they adjust down to 2.5 watt seconds that through a soft box get me to 1.4 or 1.8.  If not, I just c47 another layer of diffusion over the soft box.  At the same time, out doors I have 640 ws.   Want 1200 ws outdoors gang 2 lights.  They are fully controllable from the cyber commander, on/off, power and modeling light power.  Recently controlled them from 50 yards no problem.  Oh, and they pop up to 10 times per second, 6 with the battery pack,  have a 1/13,500 fastest flash duration to stop motion and flat line color.   Perhaps my favorite piece of gear after the 135 2.0 dc and the d850.


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## texxter (Apr 27, 2018)

bishrl said:


> I am hoping someone who shoots with AB's outdoors could chime in..  I shoot mostly studio and i have several AB's currently. AB1600, AB800 and 2 AB400's. I have a tiny shooting space indoors so my 1600 was too much and i felt like the 800 might be too much so i recently picked up two used ab400's thinking i would sell the 800 and 1600. But now I've been thinking about shooting outdoors as well when I do seniors or maternity shots and i'm worried that having a Ab400 wouldn't be powerful enough for outdoors. So... my question is, should i keep the 2 400's for studio and outdoors or a 400 and 800?  Thanks so much for your help



Given that you have already bought all this equipment, and as long as you don't need to sell to fund something else, I would keep three lights and sell one. Keep (1) AB1600 for outdoor shoots that require high power; (2) AB800 for both studio and outdoor; and (3) AB400 for studio, combined with the AB800 if you need two lights.  That would probably give you the ability to do everything you need at the cost of 3 lights instead of 2.

Shooting outdoors with a strobe is very doable with a lower power AB as long as you don't have bright sun.  If you want the flash to be main when you're in a f/16 1/125 sec sunlight situation, you need lots of power and f/16-f22, which now requires a graduated density filter to control depth of field to something reasonable.  For me overpowering the sun is not something I do often as the results are a bit unnatural and you need special equipment.  But cloudy or sunrise/sunset situations with f/5.6 1/125 sec light conditions can produce beatiful results with a flash as main, as long as it's color matched to the ambient.


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## mrca (May 1, 2018)

Window light can be beautiful... when the sun is shining but difficult at night.  Also, if a cloudy day, it changes quickly and changes over several hours as the sun moves.  Also, if overcast, intensity may be low and you may be forced to jack iso or shoot slower shutter speeds or wide open when you don't want to do so.   Knowing how to use a window is invaluable for run and gun as well when don't have time to set up, have with you, or are prohibited from using lights.  One light can be enough but once you start building the shot, the hard part can be to know when to stop.   Knowing how to make 1 light act as 2 or 3  is a good skill.   I am not of the school that believes the lighting must look "natural" like there is only one light.  Who died and made those folks the art police?  Was Picasso limited to only one brush?   His work doesn't look natural.


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