# I want to buy a dSLR... No BS what takes the best picture Canon EOST1i or Nikon D5000



## BrianClark (Feb 3, 2010)

I want to buy a dSLR... No BS what takes the best picture Canon EOS Rebel T1i vs. Nikon D5000 ? 

If you want argue your point.


----------



## PhotoXopher (Feb 3, 2010)

Depends, who's holding each one?


----------



## BrianClark (Feb 3, 2010)

hahaha... I have been told I'm a little slow and I have never had a dSLR so lets say a chimp snaps the photo. hahaha


----------



## frommrstomommy (Feb 3, 2010)

I would love to find a website that has the same exact scene with shots from each (not just for the two cams you listed though) to compare.. lol


----------



## Josh66 (Feb 3, 2010)

Honestly, I think it would be pretty hard to tell the difference...


----------



## BrianClark (Feb 3, 2010)

I have seen a couple of side by side pictures but 5 at the most. I also think that thats the best review/comparison there could be. why is there not more ?


----------



## Tyger (Feb 3, 2010)

My friend and I were in your shoes about 2 years ago. we were both looking at an entry model DSLR. He got the Rebel and I went one up and got the Cannon 40D. Today, I'm looking to get the MarkII and his rebel is collecting dust. Quality wise, the 40D is built better with better materials. It feels solid in my hands and although they have the same sensor(I think) the pictures from the 40D come out noticeably better. Also the 40D gives you room to grow where as the rebel seems to be a point-and-shoot with the option to change lenses(IMHO). And for me, the look and feel of the 40D gives me more confidence to go out and take pictures because it looks like a professional camera. So my recommendation is to go to the $1,500 price point. but if your comparing the T1i and D5000, your splitting hairs and your never going get a good answer. You need to look at price points and look toward the future to decide if your going be a Cannon or a Nikon person. Your investment is not in the body but in the lenses. If your just going to take pictures of your kids and family and you are not really looking to upgrade, then the sub $1000 cameras are fine. But if your looking to shoot art, then look at the cameras in the mid $1000. You will out grow the rebel very quickly.


----------



## Derrel (Feb 3, 2010)

Objective. Controlled. Specific. Repeatable tests.

Compare cameras


----------



## BrianClark (Feb 3, 2010)

here are some side by sides... which do you think is better ?

Canon EOS Rebel T1i vs. Nikon D5000 sample images - Engadget Galleries


----------



## frommrstomommy (Feb 3, 2010)

Depends on which pic.. that first pic I was so sure the D5000 looked better.. but in some of the others I really preferred the T1i.


----------



## frommrstomommy (Feb 3, 2010)

I found this interesting..

Flickr: Camera Finder

You can select a camera and look through photos taken with that particular camera!


----------



## Iron Flatline (Feb 4, 2010)

Go to a store, figure out how they feel and how you like the controls. Include Sony in the comparison. Buy the one you like best.


----------



## PerfectlyFlawed (Feb 4, 2010)

I was in this same position.... Just recently. And after comparing for hour on end...price...mps..iso...look..feel...pic quality.....everything down to the nitty gritty....the Nikon D5000 completely smoked the Canon T1i (500) or even the 450-rebel XSi.

I decided to purchase a D5000 myself--- and u can find one for anywhere from 550-800 with a lense kit.


----------



## CoRNDoG R6 (Feb 4, 2010)

Go with the T1i!  The D5000 has had recall problems.


----------



## BrianClark (Feb 4, 2010)

Thanks PerfectlyFlawed ! I love to hear peoples personal opinion !!! If you read reviews everything is 50/50 but they never say which takes all around the best pictures.


----------



## rufus5150 (Feb 4, 2010)

Derrel said:


> Objective. Controlled. Specific. Repeatable tests.
> 
> Compare cameras



And wrong, at least on the stats I first brought up. It says a 7D is a 3FPS camera


----------



## cfusionpm (Feb 4, 2010)

Keep in mind that the D5000 will only autofocus AF-S and AF-I lenses, as it lacks an autofocus motor in the body, and while Nikon puts autofocus motors in most of their lenses, they do not put them in all.


----------



## Derrel (Feb 4, 2010)

rufus5150 said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> > Objective. Controlled. Specific. Repeatable tests.
> ...



Well, in lower light the 7D IS A 3 to 4 FPS CAMERA, in actual use, in the real world,even at fast shutter speeds or even when underexposing the scene to get a faster shutter speed artificially with the intent to post-process "lift" and recover the image. Quite a few users who bought the 7D expecting that it would make a good low-light sports camera have reported that once the light level drops, no matter the exposure the camera is set to, the firing rate drops as low as 3 or 4 frames per second....  7D not always 8fps: Canon EOS 7D / 50D - 10D Forum: Digital Photography Review

As for the quote that the 7D is a 3fps camera....wow--they have a typo on the site. I suppose that invalidates the entire site, right?

here's the rap on the 7D from an owner, and the Canon manual:

"here's a note on page 93 of the manual "In low-light areas or indoors, the continuous shooting speed may become slower even if a faster shutter speed is set."

"Regardless of mode & shutter speed, in low light, the burst speed does appear to slow down to 3-4 fps. Even with manual focus & Manual mode with a high shutter speed set. This can be overridden in Av & Tv by using AE Lock, but there is no workaround when shooting in M. Canon says it's their new metering system slowing the framerate down (accuracy over quantity), but why should this apply in M? The camera is not calculating exposure.
To demonstrate the phenomenon, and to prove it isn't shutter speed, buffer or focus related, set the lens to manual focus, mode to M, shutter speed to 1/1000, aperture to whatever, high-speed drive mode, low quality JPG. Point the camera directly at a light source and hold down the shutter. Should fire around 8fps. Still holding the shutter release, point the lens at the ground, or cover it with your hand. The burst will slow down. Uncover, rate goes back up."

So...Canon claims the 7D is a high speed camera....but in the real world, it's often no more than 3 to 4 frames per second....hmmmmmm.....

Any comment on that?


----------



## rufus5150 (Feb 4, 2010)

Actually, I was just ribbing. I own a 7D and I'm well aware of its performance variations in a wide array of situations. But feel free to use any chance you can to pontificate. Really. No, go ahead


----------



## erhard (Feb 4, 2010)

^^:lmao:


----------



## mdruziak (Feb 4, 2010)

I agree with a couple previous posters:

1. The person pushing the button is more important than the button.
2. Go to a store and see which camera seems the most ergonomic to you.

In my opinion, the lens will be the most important part of your purchase.  So if you are really concerned about image quality, figure out what system you want to buy, then research lenses, and then buy the camera.

Here is an interesting comparison to check out: G10 vs Hasselblad


----------



## Montana (Feb 4, 2010)

BrianClark said:


> Thanks PerfectlyFlawed ! I love to hear peoples personal opinion !!! If you read reviews everything is 50/50 but they never say which takes all around the best pictures.




Go figure.......these days, damn near all camera bodies are of equal ability.  I took my first photo with my 1DmkIV yesterday.....guess what, I would be hard pressed to tell if it came out of my 5DII or 1DIV.  This topic is stupid.


----------



## BrianClark (Feb 4, 2010)

Montana, or anyone else, here is what I'm talking about... check out these links with side by side pictures. Pick one camera or the other and why.

Canon EOS 500D / Rebel T1i review: High ISO Noise results, EOS 500D / T1i vs D5000 vs E-620 | Cameralabs

Nikon D5000 Compared to D90 and Canon Rebel T1i / EOS 500D

Then tell me which has the better image.


----------



## PhotoXopher (Feb 4, 2010)

CoRNDoG R6 said:


> Go with the T1i!  The D5000 has had recall problems.



That have been addressed and have been a non-issue for about a year now.


----------



## Montana (Feb 4, 2010)

Does the D5000 use all of Nikons autofocus lenses or do you have to play the "alphabet soup" crap typical with low end Nikon bodies?  All EF/EF-S lenses will work with the T1i.  Just something to think about.


----------



## PhotoXopher (Feb 4, 2010)

It's not that difficult, you make it sound like you need a decoder ring to figure it out... Anything by Nikon with AF-S in the title will work. Almost all new lenses being made for Nikon have focus motors.

Add to that, about 99% of all Nikon lenses ever made will work on a D40/D60/D3000/D5000 body, some won't meter or auto focus, but they'll all mount and function perfectly.


----------



## inTempus (Feb 4, 2010)

frommrstomommy said:


> Depends on which pic.. that first pic I was so sure the D5000 looked better.. but in some of the others I really preferred the T1i.


Generally with default settings Nikon's over saturate which gives the impression the image looks "better".  Canon tends to produce more neutral colors allowing the photographer to adjust saturation in post editing (which I prefer).  If you shoot in JPG mode and use your images straight out of camera without editing, the Nikon images may be more pleasing to your eye.


----------



## Montana (Feb 4, 2010)

PhotoXopher said:


> It's not that difficult, you make it sound like you need a decoder ring to figure it out... Anything by Nikon with AF-S in the title will work. Almost all new lenses being made for Nikon have focus motors.
> 
> Add to that, about 99% of all Nikon lenses ever made will work on a D40/D60/D3000/D5000 body, some won't meter or auto focus, but they'll all mount and function perfectly.




Some would call that an oxymoron.


----------



## frommrstomommy (Feb 4, 2010)

inTempus said:


> frommrstomommy said:
> 
> 
> > Depends on which pic.. that first pic I was so sure the D5000 looked better.. but in some of the others I really preferred the T1i.
> ...



When you say Nikon's you mean Nikon's in general? Not just the D5000?  I'm getting better with photoshop, but I'm teaching myself so if this is the case with all Nikon's I may be better off with something more visually pleasing from the get-go rather than having to do "more" editing.

Not looking at the D5000, the D3000 is more in the price range I'd like to stay at since I'm not exactly looking into professional photography.


----------



## inTempus (Feb 4, 2010)

frommrstomommy said:


> inTempus said:
> 
> 
> > frommrstomommy said:
> ...


Every Nikon I've seen, from the D3000 to the D3, over saturates by default.  You can dial this up or down, as you can with the T1i or any Canon.  But using default settings one is more saturated than the other in my experience.

Honestly, if you want out of camera JPG images and don't want to edit your images in post, I think Nikon has better JPG rendering.


----------



## frommrstomommy (Feb 4, 2010)

This D5000 is like haunting me.. but I can't justify spending that much! UGH


----------



## inTempus (Feb 4, 2010)

frommrstomommy said:


> This D5000 is like haunting me.. but I can't justify spending that much! UGH


Do what I do, just buy it.


----------



## frommrstomommy (Feb 4, 2010)

inTempus said:


> frommrstomommy said:
> 
> 
> > This D5000 is like haunting me.. but I can't justify spending that much! UGH
> ...



Absolutely no help! lol  This is my usual problem   I want, so therefore I buy.


----------



## BrianClark (Feb 4, 2010)

anything to say about the one thing every review brings up that the Canon has 15.1 megapixels ?


----------



## Montana (Feb 4, 2010)

You wont notice the difference in mega pixels unless you do some heavy cropping.


----------



## inTempus (Feb 4, 2010)

frommrstomommy said:


> inTempus said:
> 
> 
> > frommrstomommy said:
> ...


I guess I don't see the problem.    Buy what you want and be happy.  There's nothing worse than making a compromise then regretting your decision.


----------



## PhotoXopher (Feb 4, 2010)

Good read on the megapixel myth:
Last Notes on the Megapixel Myth - Pogue&#8217;s Posts Blog - NYTimes.com


----------



## paul8377 (Feb 4, 2010)

frommrstomommy said:


> inTempus said:
> 
> 
> > frommrstomommy said:
> ...


FWIW, I was in about the same situation and just pulled the trigger on the D5000 refurb with 18-55 kit lens from Adorama. With Bing cash back the total came to about $508. I also plan to get the 55-200 lens (also refurb from Adorama) which is currently $159 and is well reviewed by Ken Rockwell and others. It seems to me like a great package for well under $700. I read enough feedback on refurbished products from Adorama to feel comfortable, plus you can return them for a full refund within 14 days.

Good luck in your decision.


----------



## frommrstomommy (Feb 4, 2010)

paul8377 said:


> frommrstomommy said:
> 
> 
> > inTempus said:
> ...



Thanks, its something to think about.. and I'm trying to hold off on purchasing for another week or two so I know I'm not just impulse buying. Too much time to think could be bad for my bank account though.. lol  I can't help but be overly skeptical about refurbished items. :raisedbrow:


----------



## sinjans (Feb 4, 2010)

go with a used XXD series instead of the t1 if you go the canon route. you can compare the feel of them at your local camera shop. Sorry if i side track your thread.


----------



## TylerF (Feb 4, 2010)

i personally hate the whole camera war and the "what camera is better?" thing. the quality of the image relies heavily on the person holding the camera IMO. It comes down to what is more comfortable to you. Knowing how a camera works and why different settings give you different outcomes is, to me, more important than how many megapixels a camera has. I use a d40. and trust me, i get a lot of crap for that (from both nikon and canon ppl) but for my first dslr, i am 100% happy with it. im not making any huge prints or shooting for magazines, so the low mp doesnt really bother me. i wouldnt get anything above 1000 like someone said, especially if you don't know what iso, aperture, or shutter speed are and how they interact with eachother. but this is all my opinion. also keep in mind the lenses that you will buy because they will out live the body you get if you take care of them.

that being said...get the nikon


----------



## inTempus (Feb 4, 2010)

paul8377 said:


> which is currently $159 and is well reviewed by Ken Rockwell and others.


From this point forward, please ignore everything that Ken Rockwell says or does.  His site is a self admitted joke.  The man routinely "reviews" products he's never touched in real life. 

His site is to be taken about as seriously as one might take The Onion as a serious news site.


----------



## inTempus (Feb 4, 2010)

TylerF said:


> i personally hate the whole camera war and the "what camera is better?" thing. the quality of the image relies heavily on the person holding the camera IMO. It comes down to what is more comfortable to you. Knowing how a camera works and why different settings give you different outcomes is, to me, more important than how many megapixels a camera has. I use a d40. and trust me, i get a lot of crap for that (from both nikon and canon ppl) but for my first dslr, i am 100% happy with it. im not making any huge prints or shooting for magazines, so the low mp doesnt really bother me. i wouldnt get anything above 1000 like someone said, especially if you don't know what iso, aperture, or shutter speed are and how they interact with eachother. but this is all my opinion. also keep in mind the lenses that you will buy because they will out live the body you get if you take care of them.
> 
> that being said...get the nikon


I stopped reading your post at "I use a D40".


----------



## TylerF (Feb 4, 2010)

lol i have heard that before. is it the best camera? no. but i have learned so much with it. and i have already started saving for a new camera (d700) and i figure that by the time i feel i have outgrown the d40, i will have the money for the d700. but it makes no sense to get something that is pro-quality when you don't know how to use it.


----------



## inTempus (Feb 4, 2010)

frommrstomommy said:


> I can't help but be overly skeptical about refurbished items. :raisedbrow:


With regards to cameras, buying refurbished (factory) from Adorama is 100% safe.  The camera will be as new. It will have a better chance of not having a factory defect as only a fraction of the bodies produced actually are tested for quality.  If you buy a factory refurb from Adorama the camera will have been completely checked out and calibrated by a factory tech.  It will be packaged as if it were new (box will be different).  It will have a warranty, Adorama gives one full year on factory refurbs the last I heard.  It will also look brand spanking new, no marks or dings.  You won't be able to tell it from any other new body in a line-up.

I bought a factory refurb from Adorama and I wouldn't hesitate to do it again.


----------



## inTempus (Feb 4, 2010)

TylerF said:


> lol i have heard that before. is it the best camera? no. but i have learned so much with it. and i have already started saving for a new camera (d700) and i figure that by the time i feel i have outgrown the d40, i will have the money for the d700. but it makes no sense to get something that is pro-quality when you don't know how to use it.


I was just kidding man.    The D40 is a good camera.

As for "pro quality" and not being able to learn how to use it... I never understood that line of thought.  The D700 has the same settings as the D40 (shutter speed, ISO, aperture, EV compensation, etc.).  The D700 is more robust and of a better build quality, but functionally it isn't all that different than your D40.  There's no reason to learn on a lesser body as if you would have a harder time learning on a D700.  If anything, you should buy a lesser body if not you're sure you're going to stick with photography.  Otherwise, if you can afford it, buy the best Nikon makes and grow into the body.


----------



## TylerF (Feb 4, 2010)

i see where you're coming from. but to me the d700, tho A LOT more money than the d40, goes more in depth and can be overwhelming to someone learning photography. I was a little intimidated by just the d40 lol. i guess buying the best camera out there for your first camera doesnt set well with me because i wasnt 100% sure if i was going to be into photography as much as i am now. but i do understand where you're coming from.


----------



## frommrstomommy (Feb 4, 2010)

INKD5000RD Nikon D5000 DX-Format 12.3 Megapixel Digital SLR Camera Kit - Refurbished - by Nikon U.S.A. with Nikon 18mm - 55mm f/3.5-5.6G AF-S DX (VR) Vibration Reduction Wide Angle Autofocus Zoom Lens, - Refurbished - by Nikon U.S.A.

Is this true ^^^??? What does special price mean?? lol


----------



## inTempus (Feb 4, 2010)

frommrstomommy said:


> INKD5000RD Nikon D5000 DX-Format 12.3 Megapixel Digital SLR Camera Kit - Refurbished - by Nikon U.S.A. with Nikon 18mm - 55mm f/3.5-5.6G AF-S DX (VR) Vibration Reduction Wide Angle Autofocus Zoom Lens, - Refurbished - by Nikon U.S.A.
> 
> Is this true ^^^??? What does special price mean?? lol


It would appear it means it's on sale.


----------



## PhotoXopher (Feb 4, 2010)

Refurbished?


----------



## frommrstomommy (Feb 4, 2010)

Temptation :cry:


----------



## djacobox372 (Feb 4, 2010)

BrianClark said:


> here are some side by sides... which do you think is better ?
> 
> Canon EOS Rebel T1i vs. Nikon D5000 sample images - Engadget Galleries



I don't see how they can be compared when the exposure/processing is consistently different from one to the other.  All the d5000 pics are about 1/3rd stop darker, which makes some photos better and some worse.


----------



## PhotoXopher (Feb 4, 2010)

D5000 is a nice camera with quite a bit more ability than the D3000, but if you don't need its features (higher ISO ability, movie mode, more scenes, etc) then get the D3000.


----------



## frommrstomommy (Feb 4, 2010)

PhotoXopher said:


> D5000 is a nice camera with quite a bit more ability than the D3000, but if you don't need its features (higher ISO ability, movie mode, more scenes, etc) then get the D3000.



The price is nearly the same if I get it from that site, and I keep thinking the lack of live view on the 3000 is going to make me sad. lol

and video would be nice


----------



## Derrel (Feb 4, 2010)

frommrstomommy said:


> This D5000 is like haunting me.. but I can't justify spending that much! UGH




How much money do you have tied up in your current automobile? or your current television set and associated "boxes"? Or perhaps in purses, or high-tech tennis shoes? Everything is relative, as they say.

I once had a somewhat close friend ask me, "How can you afford all these fancy cameras and lenses, " and I said to him, "you've seen the car I drive, right?" 

As to the direcvt comparison of the T1i vs the D5000, the Cameralabs side-by-side tests are showing the color depth advantage that Nikon enjoys over most somewhat competing Canon cameras Canon EOS 500D / Rebel T1i review: High ISO Noise results, EOS 500D / T1i vs D5000 vs E-620 | Cameralabs

The megapixel marketing Canon loves so much masks the fact that in almost all segments, Nikon can get deeper color depth by using fewer, and also LARGER pixels. So, a good example of the DXO Mark disparity I pointed out shows up in the Cameralabs side-by-side photographic comparison between the T1i, Nikon D500, and the Olympus E620. Megapixels are nice, and higher MP counts SOUND really good, but what Nikon and Canon have done with their cameras show a slightly different approach to sensor design and overall imaging philosophy. Nikon is going for larger pixel size and a higher per-pixel color depth and it could be argued a higher "per-pixel" image quality than Canon is, especially with regard to noise levels at elevated ISO settings,and with greater color depth. 12 million pixels is a very good compromise between MP count and MP size and overall image performance with all types of lenses.

As far as the lens and AF motor issues: the Nikon lenses a beginner wants and can usually afford all have focus motors in the len. The older screw-drive lenses are for the most part, the kinds of equipment that only "serious" Nikon users will even want to buy, or be able to afford. It's funny how people talk about not being able to spend much on a camera that will be used to document some of the absolutely most-precious and lasting memories, of the birth and rearing of a new baby. I have great photo gear, but I don't buy fancy cars...


----------



## iflynething (Feb 4, 2010)

The D3 

~Michael~


----------



## TJ K (Feb 4, 2010)

Definitely a cyber shot


----------



## PerfectlyFlawed (Feb 4, 2010)

Your welcome. I'm pretty new to all of the slr's myself...and I too found that everything was 50-50 that's why I was so torn between the 2. But after everything I've found oe heard---i've been told that yes the canon has advantage of having cheaper lense of same quilities..but nikon tends to have over all best pic quality. But I think its mostly personal preferences, feel, comfort and knowing how to use what u have. I've seen some amazing pictures used by profesionals with both cameras. Hard decision! Lol


----------



## PerfectlyFlawed (Feb 4, 2010)

they (adorama.com) only offer a 90 day limited warranty on refurbished. I was considering buying my D5000 from there until i read that... im afraid being refurbished itd go bad after the warranty is up. But i'd consider it for the price difference. I think mostly it comes down to what you can afford as well... the D5000 is a little more. I was considering the Canon XSi (450) vs Nikon D3000 at first because there reasonably priced. and newegg.com has both of them at good prices. But you can also find them else where with kits.

Also this site may help you. Its helped me a ton... it compares cameras. Up to 4 at a time.
Compare cameras

http://www.adorama.com/


----------



## frommrstomommy (Feb 4, 2010)

PerfectlyFlawed said:


> they (adorama.com) only offer a 90 day limited warranty on refurbished. I was considering buying my D5000 from there until i read that... im afraid being refurbished itd go bad after the warranty is up. But i'd consider it for the price difference. I think mostly it comes down to what you can afford as well... the D5000 is a little more. I was considering the Canon XSi (450) vs Nikon D3000 at first because there reasonably priced. and newegg.com has both of them at good prices. But you can also find them else where with kits.
> 
> Also this site may help you. Its helped me a ton... it compares cameras. Up to 4 at a time.
> Compare cameras
> ...



I just double checked and its true, its a 90 day limited warranty on that one.. blah  Now I have to consider that as well! lol


----------



## Overread (Feb 4, 2010)

REfurbished cameras are generally a safter bet than brand new cameras. They have been sent back to canon/nikon and been personally refitted with new sensor, shutter and such. Essentially they are like a new camera and since they are repaired by hand the chances of one having a production fault are very small indeed - as opposed to the rest of the cameras sold normally which are made in batches and only ever a few in each batch are checked.


----------



## Dominantly (Feb 4, 2010)

Dude bro, D5000 > D3000 easily.


----------



## inTempus (Feb 4, 2010)

PerfectlyFlawed said:


> they (adorama.com) only offer a 90 day limited warranty on refurbished.


Helen, the customer service rep that frequents the boards, recently posted that refurbs are 1 year now through Adorama.  I don't know if that's just on Canon or if that's on all refurbs (I believe she posted it on the Canon forums but I could be mistaken).


----------



## frommrstomommy (Feb 4, 2010)

inTempus said:


> PerfectlyFlawed said:
> 
> 
> > they (adorama.com) only offer a 90 day limited warranty on refurbished.
> ...



On that one I posted and most of the others I brought up that were refurbished (not sure if I looked at canon's on there though) they said 90 day for the refurbs and all the new ones said 1 year.  I will go look at canon's on there and see if I can figure that one out.


----------



## frommrstomommy (Feb 4, 2010)

A refurbished canon I looked at also says 90 day warranty.


----------



## PerfectlyFlawed (Feb 4, 2010)

inTempus said:


> PerfectlyFlawed said:
> 
> 
> > they (adorama.com) only offer a 90 day limited warranty on refurbished.
> ...



-Ill call and ask ..  I hope so (that its 1 year) !!!


----------



## frommrstomommy (Feb 4, 2010)

PerfectlyFlawed said:


> inTempus said:
> 
> 
> > PerfectlyFlawed said:
> ...



*fingers crossed* but you'd think they'd hurry up and update it on the site to boost sales so I'm leaning towards probably not..lol let us know!!


----------



## BKMOOD (Feb 4, 2010)

This debate makes about as much sense as debating which typewriter will write the best screenplay...


----------



## mdruziak (Feb 5, 2010)

BKMOOD said:


> This debate makes about as much sense as debating which typewriter will write the best screenplay...



Yup.  Pass the popcorn!


----------



## HelenOster (Feb 5, 2010)

frommrstomommy said:


> A refurbished canon I looked at also says 90 day warranty.


 
Since 1st May 2009 all Canon refurbs from Adorama come with a 12-month return-to-Adorama warranty; if it says 90 days, it is a typo - I'd be grateful if you could forward the SKU to me and I can get it changed on the website.

All other refurbs from Adorama carry a 90-day warranty.

Please don't hesitate to contact me directly if I can offer any additional information or support.

*Helen Oster
Adorama Camera Customer Service Ambassador*
http://helenoster.blogspot.com


helen.oster@adoramacamera.com
www.adorama.com


----------



## Stamp (Feb 5, 2010)

Overread said:


> REfurbished cameras are generally a safter bet than brand new cameras. They have been sent back to canon/nikon and been personally refitted with new sensor, shutter and such. Essentially they are like a new camera and since they are repaired by hand the chances of one having a production fault are very small indeed - as opposed to the rest of the cameras sold normally which are made in batches and only ever a few in each batch are checked.



That's not entirely true.  The more hands on something gets and moves away from automation, the more chance for errors.  That's also why it only has a 90 day warranty.


----------



## Iron Flatline (Feb 5, 2010)

I'd wait for the D7000, which has God mode, designed by Chase Jarvis. All of your pics will have that really cool fish-eye look where Heidi Klum is shredding a rail while a James Nachtway-esque orphan is in the background being posed by Ansel Adams - in HDR! And the Saturation goes to 11!


----------



## HelenOster (Feb 5, 2010)

Stamp said:


> That's not entirely true. The more hands on something gets and moves away from automation, the more chance for errors. That's also why it only has a 90 day warranty.


 


All refurbished units sold by Adorama Camera are factory refurbished by the manufacturer. A refurbished unit from Adorama may be an ex-store demo, possibly used in field tests or sales displays, or it may have been ordered in error and returned to the retailer (who can't then sell it as 'new' so it has to be sent back to the manufacturer for refurbishment). 

A refurb can also have simply been pulled from the production line if something appears faulty, or if it hasn't passed the final inspection. Most of the time it is a very minor issue that needs correcting, nevertheless, once it is pulled from the normal flow of production, it gets flagged as a refurbished model, so you may get a unit straight from the factory that has never been used.

A refurbished item will have been checked over by the manufacturer by hand, inspected very thoroughly, diagnosed, and calibrated by experienced technicians, and could therefore turn out to be more dependable than a new item - which will only have been checked by a process of systematic quality control protocol (ie by random sampling as it comes off the conveyor belt). 

The warranty that Adorama gives covers anything the manufacturer's warranty covers for a new unit, including shutter defects.


----------



## inTempus (Feb 5, 2010)

Stamp said:


> That's not entirely true.  The more hands on something gets and moves away from automation, the more chance for errors.  That's also why it only has a 90 day warranty.


Wrong.

The camera was produced via automation already.  It is double checked by a human, which unlike a machine can see defects.  You do realize that automation produces flawed products all the time, right?  That's why a certain percentage of the products are pulled from the assembly line and are inspected by humans.  When a defective camera makes it to the shelf, it's usually one that slipped through the QC process and wasn't checked.


----------



## Stamp (Feb 5, 2010)

inTempus said:


> Stamp said:
> 
> 
> > That's not entirely true.  The more hands on something gets and moves away from automation, the more chance for errors.  That's also why it only has a 90 day warranty.
> ...



You're wrong, sir.
Automation is the reason why you don't see blacksmiths, or gunsmiths mass producing products anymore.  Because the quality of one will not be the same as the one made before it, and just hope that that gunsmith isn't having a bad day and feeling lazy, to the point of overlooking everything.  

It's also cheaper, but quality can be controlled much easier with automation, as they have but one set of standards, and if it doesn't fit the standards, it's then taken and repaired by, not so much a "skilled technician" as mentioned above, but probably some hood with his pants half way around his butt, and could care less about the company.  

That's how it was at Asus for motherboard repair, and I can only imagine Canon is very similar.  Also, you'd be surprised at how many of the "repaired" motherboards and video cards end up coming back for more repairs.  

I've seen it first hand, I've seen the workers, and it's most likely safe to buy a refurbished product, but I'll always opt for the one that made the cut the first time, and the one that comes with a much longer warranty because of this.


----------



## inTempus (Feb 5, 2010)

Stamp said:


> inTempus said:
> 
> 
> > Stamp said:
> ...


So I guess all those quality control employees don't really do anything?  You think that everything that rolls off the assembly line is 100% perfect and a bad product makes it to the shelves when what, a human inspects it?

LOL

Automation produces flawed products routinely, hence Quality Control departments.  Plus, as much as you hate humans and trust machines, not all of the production process is done by machines.  Humans are still involved.

As for the "much longer warranty", Canon offers a 1 year warranty on new products.  Adorama offers a 1 year warranty on all Canon refurbs.  Why?  Probably because they know there's very little chance they're going to have to pay for anything and they likely have a very low return rate, otherwise it wouldn't make good business sense to make such an offer for free.


----------



## Stamp (Feb 5, 2010)

inTempus said:


> Stamp said:
> 
> 
> > inTempus said:
> ...



Great reply.

And to answer your question, they're there to sample product like you suggested, and keep the machinery in spec, however, if the company uses 6 sigma (which most production companies do among other techniques), they're striving for 3.4 defects per million.  Do you know what that means, InTempus?  Try thinking if that is even fathomable with human production.


----------



## inTempus (Feb 5, 2010)

Stamp said:


> And to answer your question, they're there to sample product like you suggested, and keep the machinery in spec, however, if the company uses 6 sigma (which most production companies do among other techniques), they're striving for 3.14 defects per million.  Do you know what that means, InTempus?  Try thinking if that is even fathomable with human production.


You're not doing a very good job of making your case that human inspection is problematic or causes defects vs. reducing defects.

You admit that human inspections keep machines in spec (they do more than that actually - I work in Quality Assurance) yet you still maintain that humans don't catch defects that machines miss or that perhaps they introduce defects when they review a machines' output.  

Please continue with your circular argument, it's entertaining if nothing else. 

Also, your strawman argument you've introduced into this post is kind of funny.  I have not once in in this thread suggested that cameras should be made by humans.  I am only talking about performing quality checks.


----------



## Stamp (Feb 5, 2010)

inTempus said:


> You admit that human inspections keep machines in spec (they do more than that actually - I work in Quality Assurance) yet you still maintain that humans don't catch defects that machines miss or that perhaps they introduce defects when they review a machines' output.




Um.. you asked what they do, and I gave you examples of some other things that the QC/QA people do OTHER than spot checks.  You crack me up in trying to keep this going... must be a slow day at work, eh? :lmao:


----------



## inTempus (Feb 5, 2010)

Stamp said:


> Um.. you asked what they do, and I gave you examples of some other things that the QC/QA people do OTHER than spot checks.  You crack me up in trying to keep this going... must be a slow day at work, eh? :lmao:


Fridays are slow, most folks aren't even here today.  Are you at work?  Last time I checked you were posting here as well.

Most of the refurbs never leave the factory.  They are usually bodies that failed the QC process (quite a few more than 3.14 per million fail by the way) and the defects were caught and repaired by humans.  With Canon, their internal policies are that if its repaired it can't be sold as new, only as a refurb.

That's why when you get a Canon refurb it looks brand spanking new.  It's been completely checked out by a human and made sure it's completely in spec, something you don't get from every body that rolls off the production line.

Search these forums, or others, and see how many people have complained about their factory refurbs.  You'll find few to none.  I know from first hand experience about the quality of Canon refurbs as I've owned them.  How many have you owned?


----------



## Stamp (Feb 5, 2010)

inTempus said:


> Stamp said:
> 
> 
> > Um.. you asked what they do, and I gave you examples of some other things that the QC/QA people do OTHER than spot checks.  You crack me up in trying to keep this going... must be a slow day at work, eh? :lmao:
> ...



So it appears after all that rigmarole, we are starting to agree.  And yes, I'm at work and it's slow here too.  I bet if you weren't on here so much, and out checking stuff out, you could get closer to that 3.14 parts per million! :hug::  

Nope.. never owned a canon refurb.  Just going on education that when there's more human involvement, the possibility of error goes up as well. :thumbup:  

Also, some people seem to believe that Canon doesn't even refurbish their own stuff... They say it's a 3rd party that does it.  Don't know about that one, though..


----------



## inTempus (Feb 5, 2010)

Stamp said:


> Nope.. never owned a canon refurb.  Just going on education that when there's more human involvement, the possibility of error goes up as well. :thumbup:


We were doing good until you repeated this.

So human QC introduces "errors" eh?  QC is "human involvement" and it's designed to catch production (note: automated) errors which happen frequently.  It's good to know your "education" teaches you that QC introduces defects vs. reducing them.



> Also, some people seem to believe that Canon doesn't even refurbish their own stuff... They say it's a 3rd party that does it.  Don't know about that one, though..


I don't know, it sounds like internet rumor mill stuff to me.  It's also irrelevant to the conversation.


----------



## Mike_E (Feb 5, 2010)

frommrstomommy said:


> I would love to find a website that has the same exact scene with shots from each (not just for the two cams you listed though) to compare.. lol



Here you are..

photoSIG &#187; Main


----------



## Stamp (Feb 5, 2010)

inTempus said:


> So human QC introduces "errors" eh?  QC is "human involvement" and it's designed to catch production (note: automated) errors which happen frequently.  It's good to know your "education" teaches you that QC introduces defects vs. reducing them.



Funny how you can misconstrue something someone is talking about so easily.. you must be married. 

I never said human qc introduces a higher possibility of error.  I'm saying more human involvement in the DIRECT manufacturing process (i.e. the **** that needs to take place for a final product to be produced), and QA/QC isn't that.  It's a supplement department that ensures quality, hence where you say you work, quality assurance.



inTempus said:


> I don't know, it sounds like internet rumor mill stuff to me.  It's also irrelevant to the conversation.


I brought it up because you said that Canon does its own refurbs.  Therefore, your theory could be flawed, if in fact, they don't even refurbish the products themselves.  I was hoping someone else would jump in with some more info on that one.


----------



## inTempus (Feb 5, 2010)

Stamp said:


> I never said human qc introduces a higher possibility of error.  I'm saying more human involvement in the DIRECT manufacturing process (i.e. the **** that needs to take place for a final product to be produced), and QA/QC isn't that.  It's a supplement department that ensures quality, hence where you say you work, quality assurance.


Here, let me quote you since you can't seem to remember what you post.



> Nope.. never owned a canon refurb. Just going on education that when there's more human involvement, the possibility of error goes up as well.


I'm good, but I'm not psychic.  You said "human involvement" increases the possibility of errors.  QC is "human involvement".  Now that I've pointed that out, you've changed your tune.



> I brought it up because you said that Canon does its own refurbs.  Therefore, your theory could be flawed, if in fact, they don't even refurbish the products themselves.  I was hoping someone else would jump in with some more info on that one.


There's nothing to be "flawed".  Good Lord.  It's COMPLETELY irrelevant who someone works for that does the refurb.  It's a name on a paycheck, the process is the same.  My comments were never intended to imply that 3rd parties might not be involved as it's completely irrelevant.  All that matters is that it's something which is done by Canon and sold by Canon.  3rd parties are involved in the entire production process, vendors are a way of life in modern manufacturing.

Let's see how many irrelevant directions we can take this discussion.


----------



## Dao (Feb 5, 2010)

I agree that it does not matter who do the job.  As long as it meet the specification.  
(That's why Toyota took all the blame on their recent recall problem even the part is manufactured by a 3rd party company.  And the part is made to their specification.)


As mentioned before, I also believe refurbished products do not always mean a defective product that sell back to the market after repair.  Even if that is the case, it is already repaired.  Unless for some odd reasons that the camera has multiple problems and only one area is addressed.

I heard from another forum that when they received an refurbished camera from Canon directly, it looks brand new and he could not tell it is a refurbished except the refurbished sticker.   And the reps from Canon said some of the cameras sold through that channel were over-production cameras and they were brand new. (of course, no way to confirm this)

And I can understand this.  They have a excessive inventory and do not want to affect the market value of a particular product.


----------



## Stamp (Feb 5, 2010)

inTempus said:


> Stamp said:
> 
> 
> > I never said human qc introduces a higher possibility of error.  I'm saying more human involvement in the DIRECT manufacturing process (i.e. the **** that needs to take place for a final product to be produced), and QA/QC isn't that.  It's a supplement department that ensures quality, hence where you say you work, quality assurance.
> ...



Correct me if I'm wrong, but we got on this subject talking about people refurbishing a product, right?  Well, the people who do the repairs ARE NOT QC/QA people, therefore, I assumed most people would be able to follow this discussion in a reasonable way, and know that when we're talking about human involvement in refurbishing, and that we're not talking about the guy who drives the lunch wagon, who feeds the manager, who tells the qc guys which batch to check, who gives the defects to the person doing the repair.  

No.

We're talking about the person doing the repair.   Get with it. 

I'm done with this little bickering about what your job is.  But another tid bit to back up the well know theory... check the history of airplane crashes and the ratio of direct pilot error vs mechanical malfunction. :er:


----------



## inTempus (Feb 5, 2010)

Stamp said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but we got on this subject talking about people refurbishing a product, right?  Well, the people who do the repairs ARE NOT QC/QA people, therefore, I assumed most people would be able to follow this discussion in a reasonable way, and know that when we're talking about human involvement in refurbishing, and that we're not talking about the guy who drives the lunch wagon, who feeds the manager, who tells the qc guys which batch to check, who gives the defects to the person doing the repair.


Umm, I thought I pointed out that most refurbs are bodies that failed QC.  Perhaps you missed that comment.  

Refurbishing isn't manufacturing, previously it was human "manufacturing" that was your point of contention.  That's apparently shifted.

You made a broad brush statement about human involvement reducing quality, you mentioned no qualifiers on the department in which the human may work.  It's not my fault you're not clear in your statements.



> We're talking about the person doing the repair.   Get with it.


So now we've narrowed it down from manufacturing to repairs.  Ok, so it's your belief that a human is incapable of making a repair.  So when they are handed a defective product that has a screw missing, you think that it's more likely they'll not be able to replace the screw vs. being able to replace it properly?  I'm sure you have some statistics to back this claim up.  I would enjoy reading them.  I assume this is at least partially where your education in all things related to manufacturing, I'm sorry, repairs, comes from.



> I'm done with this little bickering about what your job is.  But another tid bit to back up the well know theory... check the history of airplane crashes and the ratio of direct pilot error vs mechanical malfunction. :er:


My job?  I'm not bickering about my job.  LOL.  

Now you want to group pilot error into a discussion about refurbs?  Are you kidding me?  How desperate can you be to try to make a point?

It's probably best we do drop it here before you start talking about the meaning of life or something equally unrelated.


----------



## frommrstomommy (Feb 5, 2010)

HelenOster said:


> frommrstomommy said:
> 
> 
> > A refurbished canon I looked at also says 90 day warranty.
> ...



I PM'ed you with a few links I found easily.. though I didn't check every Canon that came up lol.  I know I was probably looking at the Rebel XSi when I was on there so I sent a couple links to those whose warranty information says 90 day, 2 of 3 I sent show 1 year at the top, but then contradict at the bottom of the page by saying 90 day.


----------



## Stamp (Feb 5, 2010)

inTempus said:


> Stamp said:
> 
> 
> > Correct me if I'm wrong, but we got on this subject talking about people refurbishing a product, right?  Well, the people who do the repairs ARE NOT QC/QA people, therefore, I assumed most people would be able to follow this discussion in a reasonable way, and know that when we're talking about human involvement in refurbishing, and that we're not talking about the guy who drives the lunch wagon, who feeds the manager, who tells the qc guys which batch to check, who gives the defects to the person doing the repair.
> ...



Well, I'd say that I leaned you have a very single track mind, and are in capable of using different examples or analogies in order to understand something.  

And if you want statistics on how the more human involvement gives more room for error, well visit your local library and pick up a quality control text book... I've read many of them, and I'm not going to keep trying to draw you a picture, or give you other things to back my theory up, because you'll just nit pick those, and figure out a way they don't relate, then we'll be off on another topic.


----------



## inTempus (Feb 5, 2010)

Stamp said:


> Well, I'd say that I leaned you have a very single track mind, and are in capable of using different examples or analogies in order to understand something.


Now that's ironic.  Pot, meet kettle.



> And if you want statistics on how the more human involvement gives more room for error, well visit your local library and pick up a quality control text book... I've read many of them, and I'm not going to keep trying to draw you a picture, or give you other things to back my theory up, because you'll just nit pick those, and figure out a way they don't relate, then we'll be off on another topic.


So in other words you've got nothing.  I kind of figured that.

...and it's you who keeps diverting the conversation all over the map.  I point out a problem with one of your statements so you run off in another direction hoping to "get me" on something else.

You don't want to buy a refurb because you *think* they're more likely to be defective.  You have nothing to back this up but your local library where you've apparently given yourself a Ivy League education on the subject of quality control.

Meanwhile those of us who have actually owned Canon refurbs know that they're of outstanding quality.  We also know that Adorama offers a 1 year warranty on their refurbs which also speaks to their quality as no business would offer such a service for free if they had a history of problems.


----------



## Stamp (Feb 5, 2010)

So you've bought a refurbished camera, and it worked... HOORAY!!! That's what it's supposed to do.  The likelihood of it being defective is greater than that of a brand new camera... why the hell do you think canon doesn't give them the same warranty!?  
That's what I was trying to get into your skull this whole time, and since you were too slow to grasp the first concept, I'd try to give you a different scenario, in hopes you would understand a different approach... obviously not, and you have obviously not read any QA/QC books, or you would catch on to what I've been saying.

And no, I didn't pick my education up at my local library.  I'm surprised you even knew it had educational material in there... good job!  I got my education from Western Kentucky's B.S. in Technology Management with a minor in Quality Assurance.  But... I don't have a clue what the hell I'm talking about.


----------



## PhotoXopher (Feb 5, 2010)

I think this thread needs an updated title.


----------



## inTempus (Feb 5, 2010)

Stamp said:


> So you've bought a refurbished camera, and it worked... HOORAY!!! That's what it's supposed to do.  The likelihood of it being defective is greater than that of a brand new camera...


Post proof of this claim.  Until you do, it's unsubstantiated non-sense.  Period.



> That's what I was trying to get into your skull this whole time, and since you were too slow to grasp the first concept, I'd try to give you a different scenario, in hopes you would understand a different approach... obviously not, and you have obviously not read any QA/QC books, or you would catch on to what I've been saying.


The only "slow" person here is you my friend.  You ramble on in multiple different directions, insulting my work ethic, calling names (saying I'm slow), etc.  All tell tail signs of someone who knows little or nothing about which he speaks.



> I got my education from Western Kentucky's B.S. in Technology Management with a minor in Quality Assurance.  But... I don't have a clue what the hell I'm talking about.


I am a Sr. Director of Quality Assurance for a multi-national corporation and have worked in QA since 1997.  I travel all around the globe training other organizations and our vendors in QA best practices.  

What do you do professionally now days?  I mean since we're not talking about cameras anymore.  We might as well get to know each other.  Where did you vacation last summer?  What other hobbies besides photography do you enjoy?  Beer, wine or liquor?


----------



## inTempus (Feb 5, 2010)

PhotoXopher said:


> I think this thread needs an updated title.


That or one less know it all noob.


----------



## Stamp (Feb 5, 2010)

inTempus said:


> Stamp said:
> 
> 
> > So you've bought a refurbished camera, and it worked... HOORAY!!! That's what it's supposed to do.  The likelihood of it being defective is greater than that of a brand new camera...
> ...



Kind of like you insulting my education, eh? :thumbdown:  

I guess you can be anything you want on a forum, and I don't need to prove anything to you... if you do what you say you do, then surely you already know it and are trying to get your rocks off and kill time by starting arguments about trivial things.

Seems like a "Sr. Director of Quality Assurance for a multi-national corporation and have worked in QA since 1997" would have more responsibilities than to sit on a forum all day bickering with "noobs"... that is what you mean right?


----------



## inTempus (Feb 5, 2010)

Stamp said:


> Seems like a "Sr. Director of Quality Assurance for a multi-national corporation and have worked in QA since 1997" would have more responsibilities than to sit on a forum all day bickering with "noobs"... that is what you mean right?


As I said, you've got nothing but sophomoric taunts and insults.  You apparently can't back up your rather outlandish claims regarding refurbs from Canon.

I haven't insulted your education.  After you posted your credentials one post prior to this one I said nothing derogatory about them.  So your claim that I'm insulting your education is another lame attempt to divert attention away from your shortcomings by trying to insult me or accuse me of nonsensical things.  Conversely, you keep insinuating I'm lying about my employment.

So, are we done here yet or do you have a few more insults to fling?


----------



## Stamp (Feb 5, 2010)

Let ME quote YOU.



inTempus said:


> You have nothing to back this up but your local library where you've apparently given yourself a Ivy League education on the subject of quality control.





inTempus said:


> Conversely, you keep insinuating I'm lying about my employment.



There you go twisting it around again. :scratch:  For some reason, you jumped on my first post as a personal attack against you, your job, and your camera... Weird.  Grow up, chief.


----------



## inTempus (Feb 5, 2010)

Stamp said:


> Let ME quote YOU.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You can't be this dense... seriously.  

You told me to go to a local library and educate myself.  My comment was a play on that.  It's really not that hard to follow, but I understand your desperation to try and justify your constant insults.

Here ya go:



> And if you want statistics on how the more human involvement gives more room for error, well visit your local library and pick up a quality control text book... I've read many of them, and I'm not going to keep trying to draw you a picture,



If I were to play your game, I would claim you were insulting my education as if I've never touched a text book on the subject of quality control.

Once you actually mentioned your education, I said nothing deragatory about it.  I know you think I can read minds, but I honestly didn't know what your education was until you posted it.  If I did insult your education after you actually mentioned it (and before I could mind read it), please point it out so I may apologize.

As for growing up, please take a little of your own advice.  You're the one who can't seem to resist making endless insults.

Now, if you can prove a refurb is more likely to have a failure than a production line unit, please post your evidence.

This poses another interesting question.  If you feel having an already manufactured body inspected or repaired by a person increases the likelihood it will be defective, how do you feel about sending your camera in for service?  Do you not trust it will come back to you in better shape than when you sent it in?


----------



## Stamp (Feb 5, 2010)

I guess now you know how I feel while I'm banging my head against a wall wondering why it's so hard for you to follow a thread.



inTempus said:


> This poses another interesting question.  If you feel having an already manufactured body inspected or repaired by a person increases the likelihood it will be defective, how do you feel about sending your camera in for service?  Do you not trust it will come back to you in better shape than when you sent it in?



I'm going home for the day, so I'll keep an eye out for some information for you.  As far as me sending my camera in for service... I most definitely would not send it in unless it absolutely had to.  So to answer your question, I trust that it'll come back in better condition if I sent it in broke, but I would be going over it with a fine toothed comb (something that the average repair guy wouldn't do because it's not his).

Have a good weekend.


----------



## KmH (Feb 5, 2010)

> *No BS what takes the best picture Canon EOST1i or Nikon D5000*


 
Unfortunately, the poor OP is having to wade through it. :lmao:


----------



## inTempus (Feb 5, 2010)

KmH said:


> > *No BS what takes the best picture Canon EOST1i or Nikon D5000*
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, the poor OP is having to wade through it. :lmao:


You mean there is an actual right answer to which one produces the absolute best picture?

Which one was it?


----------



## LokiZ (Feb 5, 2010)

Well that is easy intempus.....

The company who uses nothing but automation to produce their cameras!  Duh! 


Stamp... Hmmm, so what about dell and their refurbished PC's?  They give the same exact warranty on them as their made to order new packages.  To coin the phrase.  "why would they do that"  After all that is more handling by humans.  Are they crazy?  playing the odds of chance like that? Hmm.

I have bought 3 of my 4 dell PC's as refurbed units the only one I had a problem with was the first non refurbed unit.  Hmmm.  

Whoohoo that is the way it's supposed to work.  Oh wait, no it's not.  The brand new unit should not have had a problem either.  

To break it down to you in non "parts per million" because I prefer percentage, I am funny like that... 100% of my new dells had a problem upon arival and 100% of my refurbed units did not.  

...My how unexpected, I would have thought that their would be more of a CHANCE for the refurbed units to have issues.  Oh wait their was. They just _overcame_ those chances.  Hey and while I am thinking about it _they_ even overcame that guy who worked on them with his pants pulled half way down... on friday... 10 minutes before time to go home. :O Oh man, I am feeling lucky about now. Wow.

Did I miss anything LOL.  Sorry couldn't resist, this is just so silly and I am feeling edgy today. 

As far as the OP.  The better camera is the one that can take more of a beating and keep on functioning in my book.  Plain and simple.  If it has the functions you need and can take a beating that is the camera for me.  Mine has eaten asphalt once (from 3ft) and took a 5ft dive into cement.  Still here and still working fine for me.  That makes me proud of my poor little rebel xt.  Can't say if it is as proud of me though, probably thinks I am an abusive a$$.

So which camera has a better drop test rating?


----------



## PerfectlyFlawed (Feb 5, 2010)

HelenOster said:


> frommrstomommy said:
> 
> 
> > A refurbished canon I looked at also says 90 day warranty.
> ...




aww!  canon only?  bummer.


----------



## frommrstomommy (Feb 5, 2010)

PerfectlyFlawed said:


> HelenOster said:
> 
> 
> > frommrstomommy said:
> ...



That's what I said.


----------



## KmH (Feb 5, 2010)

inTempus said:


> KmH said:
> 
> 
> > > *No BS what takes the best picture Canon EOST1i or Nikon D5000*
> ...


Oh, H E double L no, there's no actual right answer.

The OP was hosed from the get go.

As someone pointed out at the top of the first page. It's all about that organic gizmo that accesses the viewfinder/live view and pushes the shutter release.


----------



## impulsive1 (Feb 6, 2010)

Great thread!  I don't think this was the direction BC hoped it would take but its been informative and entertaining to say the least.  I am gonna stay off subject too (sorry BC).  I am def. gonna look into the refurbished cameras.  IMO everything involves some sort of risk and in this case it's not life threatening.  Not that I have money to burn but I am willing to risk buying something that was previously flawed and now "like new".  Especially if I am going to save money and possibly get more for less.
I think the reward definitely outweighs the risk.


----------



## Stamp (Feb 6, 2010)

LokiZ said:


> Well that is easy intempus.....
> 
> The company who uses nothing but automation to produce their cameras!  Duh!
> 
> ...




I'm not here to analyze different companies processes, and point out why you happened to get a bad product off the line and a couple refurb ones that worked.  GOOD FOR YOU!  I'd send you some cookies, but I don't know how to bake. 

I'm stating one of the most basic manufacturing theories that is responsible for the Industrial Age, and it seems the only people who don't agree with it, have NO qc/qa background, or they are taking it as a personal attack because the have bought refurbished gear in the past and it worked (guess what, I've bought a refurbished cell phone before and it worked too!!!)

That's right InTempus, I've read your website, and I find it hard to believe you're a "Sr. Director of Quality Assurance for a multi-national corporation and have worked in QA since 1997", while your website says you are a 15 year veteran of the ADVERTISING WORLD .  Reality check... Advertising has nothing to do with QA/QC.  Plus your old avatar, as a self portrait I'm assuming, made you look no older than 38 (if you are older than 38, consider this a compliment).  Lets add this up using my assumption (they taught us how to do basic math at WKU believe it or not!).  2010-1997 = 13 years in QA/QC.  38-13 = 25 years old when you started QA/QC.  25 minus 15 years of marketing = 10!!!  Wow.. you started marketing when you were 10 years old!!!  I didn't think that was legal, unless of course you were painting a sign for you lemon-aid stand.

That explains why I'm running into so much confrontation here.  The people that I thought were on the same page as me, weren't.  I should've broke it down Barney-style, but was going off the statements of experience the others posted... silly me... actually believing people online... I guess that country song "So much cooler online" really applies to a lot more people than I thought.   

I guess I should take some other people's advice, and just put the people we all know like to argue on the ignore list.


----------



## Stamp (Feb 6, 2010)

And something else to debunk InTempus' job title claim... I quoted 6 sigma as 3.14 parts per million.. well I mis-spoke.. that is actually PI. I meant to say 3.4 DPPM.  Surely someone who had a background of quality would've caught that and slammed me for it... good thing there wasn't anyone here! 

I'm done here.


----------



## Iron Flatline (Feb 6, 2010)

Yey, you win the prize of geekiest geek. Well done, now post some pictures.


----------



## Stamp (Feb 6, 2010)

Iron Flatline said:


> Yey, you win the prize of geekiest geek. Well done, now post some pictures.



Wow.. that was out of left field.. You didn't see me jumping into your thread boys with lucha masks and calling you a child molester because I didn't agree with your style did you?  Or the guy with the gayest gay pose in his avatar?  I don't like to start name calling, and I sure as hell don't jump in at the end of a discussion and start calling names to people that I wasn't even involved with the  conversation.


----------



## Chris of Arabia (Feb 6, 2010)

Is any of this relevant to anything any more? Have enough points have been accumulated by either side to call it a draw yet?


----------



## Stamp (Feb 6, 2010)

Chris of Arabia said:


> Is any of this relevant to anything any more?



Nope... lock it, delete it, kill it.  Lets go look at photos!


----------



## inTempus (Feb 6, 2010)

Yup, I think we've beaten this one to death.  Since we can't get any proof regarding the quality of refurbs only more attacks... let's just kill it.


----------



## Chris of Arabia (Feb 6, 2010)

Good enough for me. Seems we have a point of agreement at last... :hug::


----------

