# Making Photography Your Full Time Job



## donny1963

Some one once asked me, what are the chances are doing photography full time..

Well that's going to depend on what type of photography your going to do.
#1 the photography world is changed all the time, and first off most people
can take their own portraits these days, it's not like the 70's and 80's  any where.
where most camera's these days are digital from your smart phone to a $200.00
camera.

Yes a professional photographer can do a better job, but most people these days don't care any more..
How ever Wedding photography is still alive and they are wedding photographers that are
making anywhere from $40,000.00 a year to $150,00.00 a year depending..

Now if your one of them who wants to get your pictures published, then good luck to you in that, you and 50 million other photographers out there are trying that..

Getting your pictures published to make any kind of money is going to be somewhat difficult

First off most publishing magazine companies use their own hired photographers, for instance like
Cosmopolitan, People, Elle, Time, The Glamour, Rolling Stone, Women's Day, Vogue,
Vanity Fair, Teen Vogue, Allure, All of these magazines / Publishing companies, have a few of their own photographers they pay a hefty Salary, with benefit's health care and all that..

And to actually work for any of these publishing empires, that is not going to be easy either.
I have a friend who is has been a photographer for a couple of the magazine's i mentioned above.
This is not a position you see in the news paper or craigslist,

these companies only consider the photographers by word of mouth, 99.9999% of these photographers get hired from with in the company, Never a some one who inquire's for such position.

You see for most of these empires, the photography end is the backbone..
They won't even consider some one they don't know, no matter who you are, or how great your pictures are that you present to them..
And believe it or not it's not all about how good your pictures are, they are lost of other things that are factored in..

If you ever dream of getting your work published i say keep trying, but also keep in mind that chances are it probably won't happen so you have to be ready for that disappointment.
And again working for any of these big empires, is going to be very difficult task to achieve, not impossible but very unlikely, like i said, 99% of these people are hand picked by people in the business who referred them or word of mouth.

For example, To get a pass as a photographer at fashion week in New York, is very hard as well..
I myself could never achieve this, i have gotten a pass once, but only because i knew some one.
Other wise, they would not even reply to me or even look at me for a second.


Getting that pass is very hard, But with it comes great things, first off you get all access to everything  including the back state dressing rooms to all the models, and get to meet them and photograph them, you get to walk up to them and pull them aside and get them to pose for you for a few minutes.

Alot of famous models are there including Victoria Secret's models.
Last time i got a pass was in Fashion week in the late 90's early 2000's

Some people get lucky, but this is the very few.

Most people think, wow your a vogue magazine photographer, you must be amazing, But that is not really the case, they are far better photographers who never even had 1 picture published..
The fact is that most of the magazine photographers are just average photographers..

And in most magazine's where celebrities are published, like Rolling Stone, most of the images are just sent to them by what ever Film Production at the time has featured these celebrities.
For example most of the celebrities  pictures published are taken from the film / Movie they did recently..

See as i said Digital imaging is changed in a huge way, there really is no need for a photographer on a move set to take Commercial images any more, they just capture if from the Digital Film.
And the quality is just as good..

The way the world is changing in this era is  cinematography, Now there is a booming profession, working as a cinematographer for a motion picture company, these people are making far more then any famous Vogue Magazine photographer has ever combined all of them to 1 cinematographer , the Avarage earnings as a cinematographer for a major motion picture company is 1.5 million dollars a year, this is huge..

How ever again, not an easy job to get, you got about 10 million people going to school for it and ever even seeing the inside of a major motion picture company..
It's like anything else, if you got 10,000 Dodge Vipers and 1 million people who want one then $990,000.00 people are going to not get one, lol
It's just like anything else the reality of business millions of people want to be a movie start and make millions of dollars, but only 1% of the people who go to hollywood California actually make it, out of millions of people..

You have a better chance of winning the Power ball these days..
You ever hear the old saying ? You came close but never made it..
Same thing with Photography in this type of business..

Now for Wedding photographers, this is most of all photographers make their money these days to stay alive..

And just like any other business you need to know how to run a business, you need to have them skills or your never going to make it..
So it's not just all about being a good photographer or knowing how to take great pictures, you need to know the business end of it.
Now This is where i got lucky, my uncle has his own photography business for 40 years and when i got out of high school, i started doing weddings with him and learning.
after about 6 years, he left me the business all his clients and everything..
I got lucky because i had a foundation to stand on, i had clients and so this made it alot easier then starting from scratch,

again if no one knows you why would they want to hire you when their sister will tell a would be client,  why don't you use this guy he did my brother brothers wedding he was great, so there you go you lost one would be client because your would be client's idiot sister who has no idea what she is talking about, and  referred your would be client to some one else..

This is how easy you can lose work, again just as easy you can get work, word of mouth is a great way to keep your business running, you do Mr Ed's Wedding, and he has a sister who will get married in 3 years and so mr ed will refer her to you,  and so you end up doing the entire family circle for the next 20 years.
And that's just one family..
Also if your going to be a portrait / wedding photographer, you can't rely on your customers wanted portrait work outside, you need to have a studio.
with nice backdrops and lights.
I have this for my customers,  this is a must.
I been doing this for a long time i'm 53 years old now and ready to retire, i have had enough..
but if your going to want to do photography Full time as your main source of income, then i would start out doing weddings, because this will be the easiest way to stay alive..
Also keep in mind there is alot of pressure and stress in this field..
If your not even sure of your self skill wise i would say don't try it..
The other thing is, if your not a real social type, then your going to suck at this business, because you have to be sociable and able to be a people person, other wise
this is not the job for you.
You need to be a people person and actually like people,
Other wise your going to be the worst suck ass photographer alive lol

I mean this is not hard to figure out.  Wedding, Wedding being a sociable event, where people
get together and be happy and have fun, if your one of them shy idiots who can't even say hello with out looking like you kill some one's dog, then again this is not the job for you..

Believe it or not i see alot of people like this who try to do a job where you have to blend in with the crowed and be sociable , fail and fail huge, once you learn about all the aspects of wedding photography you will figure out, being able to take great pictures is only 20% of what it takes to be a wedding photographer, and be successful at it..

Most of the weddings i done, the family wants some one who can be like one the guest, mingle with them, alot of them will ask you to join in the fun from time to time, you can't insult them and refuse either..

Anyway just wanted to bring up a few things about this topic and what most are up against in this business if that is what your looking for..

Cheers

Donny


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## dennybeall

Wow Donny, that's quite a lot of information. Unfortunately it's pretty much all correct.
I agree with most of it.  One positive note that's also going the way of the Gooney Bird is doing weddings.
Look in Craigslist and you will see wedding after wedding where they want someone to do the photos for 200$ or 300$. They will get someone.


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## Designer

donny1963 said:


> First off most publishing magazine companies use their own hired photographers, ..


Do you know that is a fact?   

I would have guessed that the photographers are "stringers" with no benefits and no guarantees.  

Regardless, the publishing industry is one of connections over anything else.  

A man I once worked for was a terrible designer, but he had a personal relationship with the editor of a national magazine, so she would often call him with an idea, and he would come up with the set, the props, and the models, and the magazine would send over a photographer.  The editor got cheap work done, and he got his name in the magazine.


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## donny1963

dennybeall said:


> Wow Donny, that's quite a lot of information. Unfortunately it's pretty much all correct.
> I agree with most of it.  One positive note that's also going the way of the Gooney Bird is doing weddings.
> Look in Craigslist and you will see wedding after wedding where they want someone to do the photos for 200$ or 300$. They will get someone.




That's true and the problem with that is, sadly the clients don't know there is a reason why these people on craigslist are charging only $200 and $300 and not $12,00.00 and $25,00.00 is because of the quality of not only the images, but the service as well..

I done weddings for many many years and as i said before, it's more then just being a good Photographer, but also a good Business man / woman.
You have to know how to run a business or else if you add up all the time and equipment and everything, you will be in the RED as far is money.

There is no way a real good quality wedding photographer can afford to only charge $200 and $300 for a wedding gig..
So i tell people when you see that don't go for it because your not getting your money's worth you just as good to get a family member or friend to 
Do your wedding shoot with a low budget APSC Camera..

But when you hire a good quality Experienced Wedding Photographer, and pay $2,000.00 in most cases your getting your money's worth.


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## donny1963

Designer said:


> donny1963 said:
> 
> 
> 
> First off most publishing magazine companies use their own hired photographers, ..
> 
> 
> 
> Do you know that is a fact?
> 
> I would have guessed that the photographers are "stringers" with no benefits and no guarantees.
> 
> Regardless, the publishing industry is one of connections over anything else.
> 
> A man I once worked for was a terrible designer, but he had a personal relationship with the editor of a national magazine, so she would often call him with an idea, and he would come up with the set, the props, and the models, and the magazine would send over a photographer.  The editor got cheap work done, and he got his name in the magazine.
Click to expand...


Yeah like i said they are so many good quality photographers that deserve to get their names in publishing companies but don't and sadly will never ever even get the chance because of how it works..

This is the sad facts of this business, once i a while there is a real artist who does do work for magazine and gets the gigs because of it,  but not often and not as much any more, one name comes to mind who use to do tons of work for VOGUE magazine, and has his work in New York Art Museums , and that is "Irving Penn" he is what of the greatest photographers i have ever know.. He was great.. Look him up he has done portraits of many many famous People..


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## dennybeall

Magazines and newspapers used to have their own photographers. Few do anymore. The Chicago Trib let all their photogs go and handed each reporter a small mirrorless camera. Our local paper only had two photographers but both were replaced by handing the reporters a small mirrorless camera.
Magazines buy photos from stringers and people on the street using cellphones.
If a mag or paper still has a "photographer" their job is to collect the cellphone shots off the internet and crop them for use in the paper.
Some exceptions, sure but not like it used to be.


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## donny1963

dennybeall said:


> Magazines and newspapers used to have their own photographers. Few do anymore. The Chicago Trib let all their photogs go and handed each reporter a small mirrorless camera. Our local paper only had two photographers but both were replaced by handing the reporters a small mirrorless camera.
> Magazines buy photos from stringers and people on the street using cellphones.
> If a mag or paper still has a "photographer" their job is to collect the cellphone shots off the internet and crop them for use in the paper.
> Some exceptions, sure but not like it used to be.




I was talking about more along the lines of Setup Photo Shoots with Celebs And Musicians, Famous People,  Like Vogue Magazine, and such, was not talking about 
News Papers and Tabloids..
I was Talking about more along the lines of Professional Photo Shoots With Celebs and models...

Donny


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## webestang64

Also be prepared to spend the same amount of time or more editing your photos than shooting them. I was talking to a client at work who spent 3 hours shooting an event and 10 hours editing.


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## chuasam

is there a TL;DR version?
uhmmm getting published is no big deal and they don't pay very much. The real good money comes from commercial clients who see your work in the big magazines and want to work with you.

I don't pursue that market. My GF does. A magazine cover typically nets $300 to $500.
Magazines are a failing industry and will pay soooo little.


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## donny1963

chuasam said:


> is there a TL;DR version?
> uhmmm getting published is no big deal and they don't pay very much. The real good money comes from commercial clients who see your work in the big magazines and want to work with you.
> 
> I don't pursue that market. My GF does. A magazine cover typically nets $300 to $500.
> Magazines are a failing industry and will pay soooo little.



Yeah Magazine's & News Papers are failing they are a thing of the past, or at least becoming that, because of the Digital Media is killing the Printed Magazine and News Papers Industry..

I Make more money doing a wedding shoot then if i was to get one picture on the cover of Vogue Magazine..
And they only have 1 or 2 major Photographers on the payroll now, most of the published images are done by Contractors that they pay hardly anything for..

Just like Local News papers, like the Boston Globe, they use to have 3 to 5 Photographers working full time for them, now only 1 or 2, and the rest are contracted to do work by the job, lets say they are covering an interview or the local School function or something like that..
The rest of the pictures are mostly from people who send in pictures from there cell phones, like car accidents or something..

20 years ago 99% of the public didn't have any type of camera on them so they had to rely on there employee photographers dispatched to a scene..
Now anything happens at least 20 or 30 people will picture or even on video..
90% of the TV news coverage in accidents and stuff like that they get the video from people recording it who was there sending in the video to the Tv stations..

I use to get my name in the papers all the time credit for pictures of something, like another elderly incompetent driver driving there car though the 7-Eleven Store..
Because i had my camera with me all the time when i was young, and had a scanner and was always there first or at least at the same time the police arrived at the scene, i would snap the shots, and get my credit for published pictures in the Boston Globe.

But if i was still young again with nothing to do i would not even bother some one would get the shot first unless i was there at the time it happen..
Because every one is shooting stuff like there with there cell phones..


By the way, Cell Phone camera's like the I-Phone  and such are killing the Digital Camera  industry, not the professional DLSR like the Nikon D7100 or greater, I'm talking about the Nikon Coolpix or the Nikon Rebel or the Canon Powershot, those camera's are becoming a thing of the past the Camera companies are losing major money on these because no one is buying them, they are happy with there I-phone or what ever Cell phone they got..
I believe with in the next few years or before that the Powershot or the Rebel, them camera's will be done, No more..
Because Nikon And Canon are not making any money from these camera's any more.. But like i said the DSLR like the D7100 or the Canon 80D are still doing good business and still turning in good profits people are still buying them, Unlike the other camera's..

By the way the professional photographer are going to be a thing of the past as well, Sony is researching on a camera that will give you the best exposure and enable any one who doesn't even know anything about photography to get the same type of creative shots that professional photographers do now..

for instance one of the things they are working on is a type of sensor that will wipe out the way lenses work , no more aperture settings, no more having to go down to 1.4 to get more light in the sensor will automatically work all that out for you and give you the resolution of 100 ISO but give you the light you would get from shooting at 64000 iso if you needed it..

Same with video..

The technology is growing still and they are going to master it you watch, with in the next 10 years you will see a wonder camera that could take pictures in a church at low light and give you the exposure as you see it with your eyes..

they are working on it i saw a video with sony research is doing, and once this happens, that will be the end of the professional photographer, people who want nice wedding pictures will be able to do them all on there own..
this will eliminate the need for a professional photographer..
It's already starting to happen right now..

with the Digital DSLR's people don't have to be as good as the season professional photographers skills as much they can see what they got for an exposure and just keep trying until they get the shot they want.

before when it was only film no one could do that, they didn't know what they had for pictures until the shots came out of the lab, now they have it right there and can see it the moment they take the shot..

Now alot of people have uncle tony or ant sally take care of the wedding picturs,  not every one but alot of them do now, before 20 years ago no one did that really..

Now they can do that,  right now they are so many unskilled photographers posting adds to do wedding pictures for 200.00 and people hire them..

Not a wise choice but alot of people are doing that, instead of paying the seasoned skilled
Larry's Photography charging $1,200.00 to $3,000.00 for a wedding,  Now billy joe bob and cory and joan on craigslist are doing weddings with there APSC's for $200 to $300

so when the super camera reaches the market look out, that will kill the photography industry forever you watch..
Sony even now makes a fully digital system camera no mechanical shutter,

 all electronic digital,   they will be able to put out a camera that can take 100 fps in due time you watch..  The time will come where a camera will not need to have all these complex things to get a good picture, it will be all done by computer, and not need to know any of he aspects of photography to get a nice picture, i'm talking top notch picture that hard core professionals are doing now, they will be no skill needed for it any more,  you think i'm lying? 

20 years ago, if i said in 20 years we will have a DSLR camera where you can see your picture on a small 3.5 inch tv screen on the back instantly, and no need for film any more, 
You would all say your crazy never will this happen..

Just like landing on the moon at one time was a fantasy (Science Fiction) and never possible..

or back in the 60's when Captian Kirk radioed in Spok instantly communicated with him from 1,000 miles away, just by the flip of a phone,  well the Nextel's made that possible back in the 60's if you said in 2 or 30 years we will all have this people would have laughed at you..

in 20 years or sooner you will have the super camera that can take pictures with the exposures of your own eyes as you see it in low light.. maybe even later take daylight type shots in the pitch dark.. 
doesn't seem possible now, but now will not always be here just like the 60's is long gone and we have better technology  in some aspects then they did in the TV show Star Trek..


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## chuasam

Technology is one thing. Don't forget that the job of a photographer is to communicate visually. To conceptualise the shoot to come out with a solution to communicate an idea or feeling in a photography. I 
Getting your photo sharp and clear is the beginning and not the end. 
My GF shoots full time now. Magazine covers are merely for prestige not a way to make a living. Clients come to her because they see her work in magazines. The best paying magazines aren't editorial news type. Prestigious glossy magazines published by luxury brands can pay €900 a day an up. 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## OGsPhotography

I want a Nikon Rebel. I hope they do not stop selling them before I see one for sale


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## fmw

Personally, I think professional photography is pretty much dead today.  It has been replaced by DIY, cell phones and computers.  It died quickly after digital photography replaced film.  I quit doing it in 1997.  I certainly wouldn't recommend anyone take it up as a full time career.


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## TheLibrarian

You're going to retire Donny! Who's going to take over the business?


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## beagle100

donny1963 said:


> Some one once asked me, what are the chances are doing photography full time..
> 
> Well that's going to depend on what type of photography your going to do.
> #1 the photography world is changed all the time, and first off most people
> can take their own portraits these days, it's not like the 70's and 80's  any where.
> where most camera's these days are digital from your smart phone to a $200.00
> camera.
> 
> Yes a professional photographer can do a better job, but most people these days don't care any more..
> How ever Wedding photography is still alive and they are wedding photographers that are
> making anywhere from $40,000.00 a year to $150,00.00 a year depending..
> 
> Now if your one of them who wants to get your pictures published, then good luck to you in that, you and 50 million other photographers out there are trying that..
> 
> Getting your pictures published to make any kind of money is going to be somewhat difficult
> 
> First off most publishing magazine companies use their own hired photographers, for instance like
> Cosmopolitan, People, Elle, Time, The Glamour, Rolling Stone, Women's Day, Vogue,
> Vanity Fair, Teen Vogue, Allure, All of these magazines / Publishing companies, have a few of their own photographers they pay a hefty Salary, with benefit's health care and all that..
> 
> And to actually work for any of these publishing empires, that is not going to be easy either.
> I have a friend who is has been a photographer for a couple of the magazine's i mentioned above.
> This is not a position you see in the news paper or craigslist,
> 
> these companies only consider the photographers by word of mouth, 99.9999% of these photographers get hired from with in the company, Never a some one who inquire's for such position.
> 
> You see for most of these empires, the photography end is the backbone..
> They won't even consider some one they don't know, no matter who you are, or how great your pictures are that you present to them..
> And believe it or not it's not all about how good your pictures are, they are lost of other things that are factored in..
> 
> If you ever dream of getting your work published i say keep trying, but also keep in mind that chances are it probably won't happen so you have to be ready for that disappointment.
> And again working for any of these big empires, is going to be very difficult task to achieve, not impossible but very unlikely, like i said, 99% of these people are hand picked by people in the business who referred them or word of mouth.
> 
> For example, To get a pass as a photographer at fashion week in New York, is very hard as well..
> I myself could never achieve this, i have gotten a pass once, but only because i knew some one.
> Other wise, they would not even reply to me or even look at me for a second.
> 
> 
> Getting that pass is very hard, But with it comes great things, first off you get all access to everything  including the back state dressing rooms to all the models, and get to meet them and photograph them, you get to walk up to them and pull them aside and get them to pose for you for a few minutes.
> 
> Alot of famous models are there including Victoria Secret's models.
> Last time i got a pass was in Fashion week in the late 90's early 2000's
> 
> Some people get lucky, but this is the very few.
> 
> Most people think, wow your a vogue magazine photographer, you must be amazing, But that is not really the case, they are far better photographers who never even had 1 picture published..
> The fact is that most of the magazine photographers are just average photographers..
> 
> And in most magazine's where celebrities are published, like Rolling Stone, most of the images are just sent to them by what ever Film Production at the time has featured these celebrities.
> For example most of the celebrities  pictures published are taken from the film / Movie they did recently..
> 
> See as i said Digital imaging is changed in a huge way, there really is no need for a photographer on a move set to take Commercial images any more, they just capture if from the Digital Film.
> And the quality is just as good..
> 
> The way the world is changing in this era is  cinematography, Now there is a booming profession, working as a cinematographer for a motion picture company, these people are making far more then any famous Vogue Magazine photographer has ever combined all of them to 1 cinematographer , the Avarage earnings as a cinematographer for a major motion picture company is 1.5 million dollars a year, this is huge..
> 
> How ever again, not an easy job to get, you got about 10 million people going to school for it and ever even seeing the inside of a major motion picture company..
> It's like anything else, if you got 10,000 Dodge Vipers and 1 million people who want one then $990,000.00 people are going to not get one, lol
> It's just like anything else the reality of business millions of people want to be a movie start and make millions of dollars, but only 1% of the people who go to hollywood California actually make it, out of millions of people..
> 
> You have a better chance of winning the Power ball these days..
> You ever hear the old saying ? You came close but never made it..
> Same thing with Photography in this type of business..
> 
> Now for Wedding photographers, this is most of all photographers make their money these days to stay alive..
> 
> And just like any other business you need to know how to run a business, you need to have them skills or your never going to make it..
> So it's not just all about being a good photographer or knowing how to take great pictures, you need to know the business end of it.
> Now This is where i got lucky, my uncle has his own photography business for 40 years and when i got out of high school, i started doing weddings with him and learning.
> after about 6 years, he left me the business all his clients and everything..
> I got lucky because i had a foundation to stand on, i had clients and so this made it alot easier then starting from scratch,
> 
> again if no one knows you why would they want to hire you when their sister will tell a would be client,  why don't you use this guy he did my brother brothers wedding he was great, so there you go you lost one would be client because your would be client's idiot sister who has no idea what she is talking about, and  referred your would be client to some one else..
> 
> This is how easy you can lose work, again just as easy you can get work, word of mouth is a great way to keep your business running, you do Mr Ed's Wedding, and he has a sister who will get married in 3 years and so mr ed will refer her to you,  and so you end up doing the entire family circle for the next 20 years.
> And that's just one family..
> Also if your going to be a portrait / wedding photographer, you can't rely on your customers wanted portrait work outside, you need to have a studio.
> with nice backdrops and lights.
> I have this for my customers,  this is a must.
> I been doing this for a long time i'm 53 years old now and ready to retire, i have had enough..
> but if your going to want to do photography Full time as your main source of income, then i would start out doing weddings, because this will be the easiest way to stay alive..
> Also keep in mind there is alot of pressure and stress in this field..
> If your not even sure of your self skill wise i would say don't try it..
> The other thing is, if your not a real social type, then your going to suck at this business, because you have to be sociable and able to be a people person, other wise
> this is not the job for you.
> You need to be a people person and actually like people,
> Other wise your going to be the worst suck ass photographer alive lol
> 
> I mean this is not hard to figure out.  Wedding, Wedding being a sociable event, where people
> get together and be happy and have fun, if your one of them shy idiots who can't even say hello with out looking like you kill some one's dog, then again this is not the job for you..
> 
> Believe it or not i see alot of people like this who try to do a job where you have to blend in with the crowed and be sociable , fail and fail huge, once you learn about all the aspects of wedding photography you will figure out, being able to take great pictures is only 20% of what it takes to be a wedding photographer, and be successful at it..
> 
> Most of the weddings i done, the family wants some one who can be like one the guest, mingle with them, alot of them will ask you to join in the fun from time to time, you can't insult them and refuse either..
> 
> Anyway just wanted to bring up a few things about this topic and what most are up against in this business if that is what your looking for..
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Donny



OK,    old uncle Bob and 'Ant' Sally are taking the lucrative $150,000 wedding photography photos ...  with all the attendant pressure and stress
*www.flickr.com/photos/mmirrorless*


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## donny1963

fmw said:


> Personally, I think professional photography is pretty much dead today.  It has been replaced by DIY, cell phones and computers.  It died quickly after digital photography replaced film.  I quit doing it in 1997.  I certainly wouldn't recommend anyone take it up as a full time career.



It is because of the technology, with Digital Camera's you can take your picture and then look at it and make your corrections , before when it was film, you had to wait until you got them processed at the LAB,  so unless you knew what you was doing, chances are they would not be very good..
today Uncle Bob or your best friend can pick up his Nikon Rebel and start taking pictures.. And get acceptable results.
Why go pay $1200.00 or $2,500.00 for a Professional when they can use that money when they go on their honeymoon in Vegas and gable it..

I'm not saying it's a good option , i'm just saying that is the way it is today and the reason Wedding Photography is not what it use to be, Or any other type of photography.
News Media gets 80% of there content from people taking shots with their smartphone, For instance a hurricane, or Car accident..
And then when there is lets say an interview with some one they just hire a contractor when they need them, In the 80's News papers and Media news, had a few Photographers Employed full time for them, With a car they provide and Health benefits. Not any more, your lucky of one large News giant Like maybe The NewYork Times or The Boston Globe Might have 1 Photographer,and when he / she is off duty they got there contractors who they can call if they need them..


Now when your talking about Hollywood Or Big Magazines, They have a few photographers, most celebrities actually have their own private photographer, or New works will have them to cover lets say the AWARDS, or hollywood bowl stuff like that,   irving penn made millions of dollars as a all around photographer, along with working with big magazines like VOGUE,  Penn Has a ton of pictures in Art Gallary's in NYC,  he was one of the best and deserved his money and credit for his work..
If you don't know who he is look him up, he was a photographer for VOGUE for about 30 years, who use to make over 8 million dollars a year From Vogue Magazine alone.
That may not sound like alot for a celebrity, but tell me how many photographers do you know of that made half that a year from a Magazine?

If you look on the neat there is a chart of the average salary for specific photographers, ranging from weddings to commercial, to Shooting supermodels and doing Fashion week in NYC, you would be surprised at how much money these guys make over wedding and even commercial photographers, that is unless you have a large company that has many clients, then that is a different story then that is not just because your a photographer but because you own a huge business..

But people who shoot for Sports sport illustrated swimsuit , or Vogue, or rolling stones, them people i believe from what i read, take in the most money..
Gary Peterson who was a photographer for Playboy Enterprise for over 21 years in his entire career made 4 million dollars, just as a paid employee of Playboy, that is all he did was shoot the playboy models, either for the magazine or at events, I read about this guy, he used a hasselblad Medium Format Film Camera,  that is all playboy use to use for their magazine.  And from my research, most of these photographers, for major magazine's like Vogue and all them owns a medium format camera and so did  irving penn was one of them..


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## donny1963

TheLibrarian said:


> You're going to retire Donny! Who's going to take over the business?



No one lol
no one has to, let some other fools do this, this is the way i feel about wedding photography right now, it's use to be ok, but now all the clients want to do is undercut the price and haggle, no one wants to pay for wedding pictures any more, it's as simple as that..


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## Tomasko

This phenomenon is pretty much a standard almost everywhere, not just in photography. Once you introduce "free/cheap" alternatives, some people will always gravitate towards such solutions. I still believe though that if you're good and persistent enough, you will find a way to monetise your experience. Also many people often soon realise it's stupid to expect professional quality from amateurish approach.

God this thread is full of negativity, cheer up people! You should be looking for solutions, not rants on how it's too hard.


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## smoke665

Tomasko said:


> this thread is full of negativity, cheer up people! You should be looking for solutions, n



I wonder if the the manufacturers of the Walkman, the VCR tape players, and the thousands of other products and services that have been made obsolete by technology have found solutions?


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## Tomasko

@smoke665 , yep, they started manufacturing other products, e.g. blueray players. They didn't abandon technology/engineering/whatever just because the market changed a bit. It's called adaptation and is vital to any business field. If someone was made obsolete by kids having a camera in their phones, something's probably not exactly right... And no, the phone manufacturing industry is not to blame


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## smoke665

Tomasko said:


> It's called adaptation and is vital to any business field



Sometimes, but in the case of the Walkman, it was item that was abandoned by Sony to pursue other products. Though Sony builds blue ray players, I wouldn't be surprised if they don't abandon it before long as Samsung makes a better player.

The point I was making was that sometimes there are no solutions available but to go away. How many corner stores still develop film??? For that matter try to even find film locally. Need to buy a floppy disc??? I believe there will be a market for the professional photographer in the future, though granted a much smaller market. While there may be a continuation of the cheap craigslist photographers in the near term, even they will go by the wayside as technology continues to improve in the digital field. Why would you want to spend even $200 on something that you can do better yourself? The reason I believe that a market for the professional photographer will remain, is because the "artistic element" is something that can't be manufactured. The ability to pose, light, and compose the image, comes from the knowledge of the photographer, not the camera.


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## Tomasko

The fact something goes obsolete doesn't mean a whole field disappears. Stores developing films transformed and now are selling new digital gear and printing photos. Floppy discs were substituted by CDs, DVDs, blue-rays etc.



smoke665 said:


> Why would you want to spend even $200 on something that you can do better yourself? The reason I believe that a market for the professional photographer will remain, is because the "artistic element" is something that can't be manufactured. The ability to pose, light, and compose the image, comes from the knowledge of the photographer, not the camera.


Precisely. You can do something yourself, but in most cases you will never substitute a real professional photographer. If you do, maybe the photographer wasn't that great to start with? Or maybe he couldn't keep up and adapt to the new market.

Sure, maybe xyz type of photography isn't so popular right now, but there are always other ways how to make a living using your experience.


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## smoke665

Tomasko said:


> Stores developing films transformed and now are selling new digital gear and printing photos



I equate the stores selling other digital gear now to the Quick Stops. No selection, very limited, and usually low end merchandise. Used to be "full service" camera shops in just about every town of any size. We had one in our town, that was great! Now they are far and few between. In our area, Birmingham, had two or three decent stores, now there's none. I think there may be one in Huntsville, but I haven't been there in a couple of years. There's one supposedly in Auburn, but I've never found it, and supposedly one in Mobile. That's it, maybe 3 full service camera stores in the entire state of Alabama. Atlanta has two, but I look for one to close before long.  Last year I made an out of route trip to stop at a fairly well stocked camera store in Missouri, that I've patronized in the past. Imagine my surprise it was gone!!! The owner retired and no one stepped up to buy it. The point is that in some cases things are disappearing.


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## Evertking

This is a sad read... Lol.
I love photography.. LOVE it. Seems like I'm late to the party.


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## donny1963

Tomasko said:


> The fact something goes obsolete doesn't mean a whole field disappears. Stores developing films transformed and now are selling new digital gear and printing photos. Floppy discs were substituted by CDs, DVDs, blue-rays etc.
> 
> 
> 
> smoke665 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would you want to spend even $200 on something that you can do better yourself? The reason I believe that a market for the professional photographer will remain, is because the "artistic element" is something that can't be manufactured. The ability to pose, light, and compose the image, comes from the knowledge of the photographer, not the camera.
> 
> 
> 
> Precisely. You can do something yourself, but in most cases you will never substitute a real professional photographer. If you do, maybe the photographer wasn't that great to start with? Or maybe he couldn't keep up and adapt to the new market.
> 
> Sure, maybe xyz type of photography isn't so popular right now, but there are always other ways how to make a living using your experience.
Click to expand...



Right Like everything else you have to improvise, when things change, the successful industry changes with it to stay alive..
For instance Record Companies realize that most people don't wish to buy Audio Cd's any more, some do , but most people don't they have all their music on MP3 players or stored in something like that, why Stack your house with hundred's of CD, which degrade in time any way and don't work in 5 or 10 years any more.
So they sell Music on Line that you can either download or access..

Same with Movies, That is Changing, DVD's are still alive, but they are tons of methods of Buying movies now, for instance If you have Comcast you can just Purchase movies, and access them any time, no need to hang the DVD on your shelf any longer..

With Photography, the technology has Improved and grown so much they have made it so just about any one can take an acceptable picture.
Even Movie's, Many Creative artist  Actors / Directors  People wanting to get in the business they are using Camera system they can afford and making Movies and Music Video's 
For Example, Lindsey Sterling Famous Violinist, got her big beak and started her success just from making her own music video's And putting them on youtube, Now she Sells her music all over the world and Tours all over the world Live..

She first went to a record Label And they turned her down and told her she would never make it, and so she was on her own and still kept at it and is now A success.
To this day all her music videos that end up on VH1 Or Music videos you can purchase, she creates them her self, With Affordable Video Camera's and does all her own editing 
and post herself.. 

cinematography Is huge these days, 90% of all the Rapper artist famous or not famous are creating there own Music Video's.
So even that profession, all these major Companies who did most of the Music Video's for successful artist  ie, Madonna, Lady GAGA, they was making Billions off offering cinematography Services, Now they are not used so much, Smaller cinematography Services are out there and used, for less then half the cost, or the artist use there own crew for that now.

The only industry that cinematography Is still alive and strong is the Movie and TV series Industry, (Hollywood) 

Oh and as far as the point and shoot camera, the little compact camera, the the Nikon Coolpix, are DEAD, The Cell Phone Industry Killed it, Why buy that camera when your IPhone 7 Takes just as good pictures if not better, and now the Iphone X which can give you bokah now with it's new software, 
the DSLR professional type cameras are still selling good, but the common buying camera for the general public like the Nikon Coolpix, is just about DEAD and probably you won't see them any more in the next 3 or 4 years..


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