# Tresspassing



## 12sndsgood (Mar 30, 2012)

How many of you have tresspassed to get some shots. Seems whenever I am out and see a spot to shoot cars theres always a no tresspassing sign 10 feet away. I prefer to do night shots with cars allot of times and its hard to be discreet when you have 3-4 flashes all going off every several minutes. Anyone been caught or arrested or fined? Just curious how many of you take the risk.


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## cgipson1 (Mar 30, 2012)

Professionals usually get permits, or permission!


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## o hey tyler (Mar 30, 2012)

I occasionally trespass (mainly for the lulz). Never on a property where someone is home, or working. Never do I leave any type of trace of me being there, nor do I take anything away from the property. 

The way I see it: No harm, no foul. 

If there is a place more deserving of a permit, then yes I'd certainly get them. It's all up to your own judgement. This is of course, my opinion... and I live in a pretty thinly populated state as well where most laws are pretty lax.


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## Natalie (Mar 30, 2012)

I go on people's rural properties all the time without their permission, but in California it's not trespassing unless any of the following conditions are met:
1. They have "No Trespassing" signs posted at least every 1/3 mile along the border of their property, and I enter anyway.
2. I use their land's resources in potentially harmful way.
3. Upon seeing me, they ask me to leave their land and I refuse.

There are other minor things, but that's the gist of it. Since I photograph wildlife and the best places to find wildlife are rural areas with debris dumped by humans (usually that happens on private property), I make sure I know the property/trespassing laws in my state. If someone's land is not posted and I'm not hurting anything, the only thing the property owner can do is tell me to leave (that does happen on occasion, and I always leave when asked). I've tried asking for permission beforehand, but the people almost always say no... So it's easier to just go on and never be seen in the first place, since it's not illegal.


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## PrashantP (Apr 2, 2012)

Seems dangerous. I try to take ask for a permission. I do most of the photography during day so there is no way I can enter other's property without permission.


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## manaheim (Apr 2, 2012)

So here's a story to consider...

Let's say I "know a guy" and "he told me this"...

He was wandering around a baseball field where his boy was playing and wondered what was down this little dirt path next to the field.  Yes there were no trespassing signs, but what could it possibly be right next to a kids field, right?

So he casually wandered down.

After about fifty paces he saw this large odd structure with signs all over it about public water supplies and some very threatening words about what will happen to you if you can read these signs.

Needless to say he made a bee line out of there and scurried back to his kids game....

... Just in time to see two state troopers and a local cop pull up lights ablazin... Both of the staties paused long enough to pull shotguns out of their trunks and all three ran down the path.

A few minutes later they were up scanning the crowd, and eventually they left.

My advice would be not to trespass.  Ever.


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## table1349 (Apr 2, 2012)

12sndsgood said:


> How many of you have tresspassed to get some shots. Seems whenever I am out and see a spot to shoot cars theres always a no tresspassing sign 10 feet away. I prefer to do night shots with cars allot of times and its hard to be discreet when you have 3-4 flashes all going off every several minutes. Anyone been caught or arrested or fined? Just curious how many of you take the risk.


Huckleberry Finn stated it best when he observed " I never could see no advantage in doing right when it's so hard to do what is right and so easy to do wrong." 





o hey tyler said:


> I occasionally trespass (mainly for the lulz). Never on a property where someone is home, or working. Never do I leave any type of trace of me being there, nor do I take anything away from the property. The way I see it: No harm, no foul. If there is a place more deserving of a permit, then yes I'd certainly get them. It's all up to your own judgement. This is of course, my opinion... and I live in a pretty thinly populated state as well where most laws are pretty lax.


 I guess if I take one of you photos and put it up on sme web site it's just fine. I mean no harm no foul.





Natalie said:


> I go on people's rural properties all the time without their permission, but in California it's not trespassing unless any of the following conditions are met:1. They have "No Trespassing" signs posted at least every 1/3 mile along the border of their property, and I enter anyway.2. I use their land's resources in potentially harmful way.3. Upon seeing me, they ask me to leave their land and I refuse.There are other minor things, but that's the gist of it. Since I photograph wildlife and the best places to find wildlife are rural areas with debris dumped by humans (usually that happens on private property), I make sure I know the property/trespassing laws in my state. If someone's land is not posted and I'm not hurting anything, the only thing the property owner can do is tell me to leave (that does happen on occasion, and I always leave when asked). I've tried asking for permission beforehand, but the people almost always say no... So it's easier to just go on and never be seen in the first place, since it's not illegal.


Next time I'm in California I will just help myself to your house if you leave the door unlocked.  Might want to take a nap and I won't be hurting anything.How to Develop Personal Integrity: 10 steps - wikiHow


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## o hey tyler (Apr 2, 2012)

gryphonslair99 said:


> o hey tyler said:
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> > I occasionally trespass (mainly for the lulz). Never on a property where someone is home, or working. Never do I leave any type of trace of me being there, nor do I take anything away from the property. The way I see it: No harm, no foul. If there is a place more deserving of a permit, then yes I'd certainly get them. It's all up to your own judgement. This is of course, my opinion... and I live in a pretty thinly populated state as well where most laws are pretty lax.
> ...



There's a distinct difference between shooting in a location and leaving it in the same condition that it was prior to the shoot, and stealing intellectual property. No one gets hurt, I don't damage property, I don't leave trash, or any type of evidence that I was there. The places that I go to shoot aren't even in the photographs. I usually go there to shoot nighttime photos of the sky. However, stealing intellectual property is quite a bit different. I am respectful of the places I visit, but I guess your skull is too thick to comprehend that. 

Why don't you go post that meme with Clint Eastwood about asking a question for the millionth time? That seems to be the only thing you're good for.


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## table1349 (Apr 2, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


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Oh I get it now, we need to be respectful of your rights, but you have no need or obligation to be respectful of a property owners rights.   I think you got some bad weed the last time there dude.


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## o hey tyler (Apr 2, 2012)

gryphonslair99 said:


> o hey tyler said:
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The property owner isn't there when I go there, and there aren't any actual "no trespassing" signs. How am I not respectful of the property owner by not leaving a trace of my presence? I'm not photographing their property, I am photographing FROM their property into the sky. 

I am totally 100% respectful of the property owners rights. If I broke something, left a trace, or something of that nature, I wouldn't be able to say I was respectful. But since I was "never there" what's the difference? 

And no, I only get the best weed. You must have me confused for someone else.


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## table1349 (Apr 2, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


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Here is a simple little rule my momma taught me.  If it ain't yours then leave it the hell alone less you have permission from the owner.  It's a real simple rule to follow.


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## 12sndsgood (Apr 2, 2012)

10 years ago I proalby wouldnt have hesitated and went and got my photos. now i'm older and tend to think things thru a bit more. I have thought about going in and asking them. Theres just still that nagging what if they say no because I really want to shoot there lol.


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## o hey tyler (Apr 2, 2012)

gryphonslair99 said:


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Good thing your momma isn't like my momma.


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## table1349 (Apr 2, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


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Yep cause if she was your momma she'd be hanging her head with shame right about now.  I would love to continue this witty rep array but I have to take a doper to Federal Court now.  Looks like the price of dope just went up round here.


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## o hey tyler (Apr 2, 2012)

It's okay, you can cry about your insecurities because your mom isn't as cool as mine. I'll even mail you some Kleenex and some Johnson & Johnson's "No Tears" baby shampoo. It's supposed to be extra gentle.


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## o hey tyler (Apr 2, 2012)

BTW, what's a "doper?" Is that what the geriatric crowd calls cannabis users?


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## SCraig (Apr 2, 2012)

Never, ever.  I respect other people's property and I expect them to respect mine.


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## Natalie (Apr 2, 2012)

gryphonslair99 said:


> Natalie said:
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> 
> > I go on people's rural properties all the time without their permission, but in California it's not trespassing unless any of the following conditions are met:1. They have "No Trespassing" signs posted at least every 1/3 mile along the border of their property, and I enter anyway.2. I use their land's resources in potentially harmful way.3. Upon seeing me, they ask me to leave their land and I refuse.There are other minor things, but that's the gist of it. Since I photograph wildlife and the best places to find wildlife are rural areas with debris dumped by humans (usually that happens on private property), I make sure I know the property/trespassing laws in my state. If someone's land is not posted and I'm not hurting anything, the only thing the property owner can do is tell me to leave (that does happen on occasion, and I always leave when asked). I've tried asking for permission beforehand, but the people almost always say no... So it's easier to just go on and never be seen in the first place, since it's not illegal.
> ...


There are obviously different laws for houses and workplaces vs. rural unoccupied properties, I suggest you read up on them. Entering a house is illegal, entering a rural unposted property is not. And in your scenario, fortunately for me (and unfortunately for you or anyone else breaking into my house), California has what's called a castle doctrine, meaning homeowners can justifiably use deadly force against house intruders. And yes, my house has guns in it. Before getting so uppity about moral character I suggest you actually take time to inform yourself on laws, especially the ones in your own area, instead of just talking out of your ass again.


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## TimGilbertson (Apr 2, 2012)

I know it's not the OP's situation, but in our business we operate with the old adage: "You* can do anything you want in a wedding dress."

*On second thought, I don't think that applies to anyone who isn't a bride; i.e. a man.

As an added bonus, there's an article somewhere about the Photographer's Rights. Interesting knowledge to have. (I spent the 3 seconds on Google to find it: Bert P. Krages Attorney at Law Photographer's Rights Page)


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## Dagwood56 (Apr 2, 2012)

SCraig said:


> Never, ever. I respect other people's property and I expect them to respect mine.



Exactly! I was raised in an age where if your toy went into the neighbor's yard, you asked their premisson before you went into get it. If I want to take a photo of something on someone elses property - I ask their permission first.


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## tirediron (Apr 2, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


> BTW, what's a "doper?" Is that what the geriatric crowd calls cannabis users?


Easier to type than "criminal" I s'pose....


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## tirediron (Apr 2, 2012)

Dagwood56 said:


> SCraig said:
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This!!!  ^^    Really, laws shouldn't even enter in to the discussion... "If you don't know whose property it is, you know whose it is NOT!"


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## o hey tyler (Apr 2, 2012)

tirediron said:


> o hey tyler said:
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> > BTW, what's a "doper?" Is that what the geriatric crowd calls cannabis users?
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Good thing I'm not a criminal, and am fully aware of my state's laws on cannabis. 

Places that have decriminalized non-medical cannabis in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## cgipson1 (Apr 2, 2012)

The whole "I'm not hurting anything" attitude just doesn't cut it.

The thing is... if you are on someones land without thier permission, you can get blamed for anything that has happened on that land even if you didn't do it. How are you going to prove you didn't do it? I don't think it is worth it, personally!


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## jake337 (Apr 2, 2012)

Dagwood56 said:


> SCraig said:
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I've been raised in the age of knowing your neighbors.  Asking my neighbor permission to grab a toy is pretty ridiculous, unless they have a beware of dog sign of course.

As to trespassing for photographic purposes, well I haven't been in that situation yet.  I would just ask ahead of time and maybe offer a print of what you plan on taking.  I wouldn't knock on their door and ask if I can use their backyard right now.


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## tirediron (Apr 2, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


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It is sad how standards are slipping everywhere isn't it?


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## tirediron (Apr 2, 2012)

jake337 said:


> ...I wouldn't knock on their door and ask if I can use their backyard right now.


I did almost that while working in Crete a few years ago; walked up to a house, knocked and after several painful minutes (the home-owner's English was as good as my Greek) negotiated permission to set up on his roof and shoot.  Wound up getting a free meal out of the deal too!


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## Dagwood56 (Apr 2, 2012)

jake337 said:


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When I was a child, we knew our neighbors too, but you still asked permission because it was the polite, respectful thing to do. It seems in recent years people have lost sight of politeness and respect and taken the attitude that, what's mine is mine and whats yours is mine and if I want it I'll take it. I'm old school and thats just my opinon. :er:


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## jake337 (Apr 2, 2012)

tirediron said:


> jake337 said:
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Well of course it's if it's your only option.  The same would happen if you knock on my door too!  I would most likely be grillin' and offer a beer as well.


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## o hey tyler (Apr 2, 2012)

tirediron said:


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It is sad how judgmental people are of a harmless plant. 

Let me guess John, you drink alcohol, right? Feel free to point fingers if you've never once had a sip of alcohol, never got a speeding ticket, and never taken drugs with more side effects than marijuana (that means any prescription drugs). 

Standards aren't slipping, people are educating themselves on cannabis and finding that it's 1000x safer than drinking alcohol to become intoxicated. But, of course you don't realize that because you aren't educated on the subject. And it's your right to remain uneducated if you so choose. It's your life, buddy. :thumbup:

&#8220;In strict medical terms marijuana is far safer than many foods we commonly consume. For example, eating 10 raw potatoes can result in a toxic response. By comparison, it is physically impossible to eat enough marijuana to induce death. Marijuana in its natural form is one of the safest therapeutically active substances known to man. By any measure of rational analysis marijuana can be safely used within the supervised routine of medical care." -Francis Young, DEA Administrative Law Judge​


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## jake337 (Apr 2, 2012)

Dagwood56 said:


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I really don't know anyone like this but...  maybe it's the area you live in.

My opinion is based solely on the toy scenario of course.   And on the opposite side I would have no issue if my neighbors kids football landed in my yard, and they jumped the fence to grab it quick like.  As long as the respect my property(plants, flowers, etc.)  More than likely I'd be tossing it back to them anyways.  And then there's the is it a gated yard deal.  We never jumped privacy fences, we also asked if the homeowner was present out back.  But if no one is home there was no way we were waiting for possibly hours for them to get home to continue our football/baseball/soccer game.

I just see a difference in using my property and some kids having fun and grabbing their toy.  Just my opinion of course.


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## jake337 (Apr 2, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


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Fixed!  One can overdose from almost every non-prescription drug available.

Cannabis is quite possibly one of the safest, substances on earth.

Don't blame the substance because of the negative issues that derive from it's prohibition and non-regulation.


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## tirediron (Apr 2, 2012)

Alcohol?  Yes, in very small amounts (I have three remaining cans of the last case of Guinness I purchased ~3 years ago in my refrigerator).  To the best of my knowledge, that level of possession and consumption violates no crimminal or civil statute anywhere in North America, unlike marijuana use in the state of Maine.

Speeding Ticket?  Nope, never had one, nor any other moving violation either.

Drugs?  As best I can remember (nb:  I had my tonsils removed when I was 3; I don't know what I might have been prescribed then), I have been prescribed Penicillin once for a minor infection and an anti-inflamatory once.  Never having consumed it, I could not comment on their relationship to Marijuana or any other illicit drug.

With respect to your citation, I cannot imagine how a judge feels qualified to make a statement on what is arguably a medical matter.  I agree that marijuana as prescribed by a doctor can be a vaild treatment, just like any other controlled drug.


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## jake337 (Apr 2, 2012)

tirediron said:


> Alcohol?  Yes, in very small amounts (I have three remaining cans of the last case of Guinness I purchased ~3 years ago in my refrigerator).  To the best of my knowledge, that level of possession and consumption violates no crimminal or civil statute anywhere in North America, unlike marijuana use in the state of Maine.
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> Speeding Ticket?  Nope, never had one, nor any other moving violation either.
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The medical matter is one of the biggest issues.  Doctors will prescribe almost anything to anyone.  A 15 year kid could convince their idiot parents that cannabis is the only way to go and have a prescription for medical marijuana.  

Complete legalization and regulation is the only cure to the issue I can devise.  I could get cannabis much easier in highs school than liqueur.  Drug dealers will sell to any age.  Liqueur stores not so much.

I'm like you when it comes to alcohol though.  I have a half bottle of Hennessy Privilege that someone brought to Jacob's baby shower(Asian thing I guess).


But anyhoooooo, how did we get so far off topic?

Back on topic!  It's always better to ask first then get shot dead trespassing in Texas later!


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## RedVixen81 (Apr 2, 2012)

Man i love living in Texas...shoot first ask questions later...j/k.. but watch out in the country they'll get ya!


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## Redeyejedi (Apr 2, 2012)

[/soapboxrant] re: tresspassing

a few notions that haven't been given consideration; privacy and perception.
it may not be illegal to 'trespass' (which by definition (* IS* illegal) but it may certainly be an invasion of privacy. 

and, as we have seen quite recently, perception can mean the difference between getting the shot and getting shot.
a white kid walking on 'private' property in the distance with a tripod across his back and a a black object in his hands may not conjure up the same perceptions as if that individual where of darker dermatological pigment. (tripod becomes rifle, black object becomes contraband)

i for one, could never chance trespassing private property where the likelihood is that i will mistaken for a "criminal" up to no good, not a working stiff looking to nail a shot to put a table on my bread.

in reality, every situation is different and should be approached with a level professionalism, courtesy, and 'what if it was me/how would i feel' attitude, but above all, good judgement as to your own safety and privacy of property owner.


what if one was out shooting without permission on private property and;
witnesses a crime?
gets hurt, shot, lost or bitten?
finds oil reserve with a aurum vien?
damages something?

so, i most always ask for permission first if possible, if not, consider not shooting or rescheuling/leaving a note.... even though it's easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission, whoever said doing the right thing was easy in the first place?
[/soapboxrant]


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## bratkinson (Apr 2, 2012)

Although trespassing laws may vary from state to state, one thing is true: Trespassing is Trespassing. Whether it's a kid cutting through your yard on the way school or someone standing in the middle of my tomato patch taking pictures. 

While cutting some slack to a kid taking an ocassional short cut or retieving an errant baseball is being a good neighbor, much beyond that is pushing one's luck. 

About 2 years ago, shortly after I got up, I discovered someone in my front yard digging a hole with a hand shovel! Is that trespassing or not? Only after I came out yelling he identified himself as a town surveyor and the 'marker' was 2" under my grass. Turns out he was right! He's lucky I didn't come out shooting! Perhaps he rang my doorbell first and I didn't hear it. Perhaps not.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is where does one draw the line, as a property owner, of what is or is not trespassing? Someone taking pictures of a property for sale across the street is no problem. Someone taking pictures of a group of people standing on my lawn...I have a problem with that.

But what about trespassing on commercial property. A factory, or an office park, or, as I've seen here and elsewhere, on a railroad or airport? These days, many businesses have security fences, and/or guards protecting their property. Trespassing there is obviously limited...even for a quick snap. 

But what about something not so obviously secured? An abandoned factory, or even a railroad? Both the factory and the railroad is clearly private property. Even in an abandoned state, they are owned by someone or some business...maybe the bank. Both pose a very serious safety concern. An abandoned factory may collapse and a train can come through at any time. Both can happen without warning, and can be near silent! It might seem reasonable to think 'oh, that business doesn't care', and perhaps some employees don't care. Just because a trespasser is not observed doing so, does that make it OK?

And what about "taggers" drawing grafitti on everything from bridges, rail cars, and buildings? Are THEY trespassing? How about if they are tagging your garage?

And what about the trespasser that gets flattened by near silent (electric) 150mph train? (top speed in USA) Were they trespassing or is it the railroads' fault they got flattened? Some food for thought. Note...I am a railroad employee.


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## manaheim (Apr 2, 2012)

Out of curiosity... how many of those of you who say "I wouldn't go onto someone's property without asking permission" would take a picture of someone in the street without first asking if it was ok?

I take pictures of people on the street all the time and I never (ever) ask if it's ok.  Yes, even if I take a picture of a kid.  If someone asks me to delete the picture I took, I more often than not tell them I was shooting something just to the left of right of them.

(Yes, it's horrible and yes I'm a huge jerk.  I get it... not the point)


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## Redeyejedi (Apr 2, 2012)

manaheim said:


> I take pictures of people on the street all the time and I never (ever) ask if it's ok.  Yes, even if I take a picture of a kid.  If someone asks me to delete the picture I took, I more often than not tell them I was shooting something just to the left of right of them.
> 
> (Yes, it's horrible and yes I'm a huge jerk.  I get it... not the point)



i do this too, but don't feel horrible about it, nonetheleast. i too say i was shooting just beyond or aside of the kid, then respond with, "not to worry, he's not model quality anyhow and why is dressed like he is getting ready to go on a safari in nairobi?"  - then the puffy-lizzard, chest flaring, pect-pounding, neadrathol approaches asking if i have a problem...answering 'not nearly as serious as your blood pressure mad mcenroe' , which then goes one of two ways.


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## Mrgiggls (Apr 2, 2012)

This has been an interesting read.   Personally, if there was something interesting to photograph on someone else's property I would make every effort to obtain permission from the owner before even thinking of setting foot on it. If the owner isn't available, that's just my tough luck. 

Respecting people doesn't cost a thing, and I see far too little of it these days.

And Red brings up a good point...



RedVixen81 said:


> Man i love living in Texas...shoot first ask questions later...j/k.. but watch out in the country they'll get ya!



Some people in the world are not very tolerant of strangers walking around on their land uninvited, and you just never know.  Maybe you see a beautiful country scene with some livestock like horses, sheep, etc.  And maybe the owner has recently had problems with livestock getting stolen (it happens all the time).  Maybe the owner is driving along with his rifle in his truck (as almost any rancher does).  You can see where this scenario might lead.


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## cgipson1 (Apr 2, 2012)

Hmmmm.. idea for sign, maybe?

*Trespassers make GOOD fertilizer!*


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## SCraig (Apr 2, 2012)

manaheim said:


> Out of curiosity... how many of those of you who say "I wouldn't go onto someone's property without asking permission" would take a picture of someone in the street without first asking if it was ok?
> 
> I take pictures of people on the street all the time and I never (ever) ask if it's ok.  Yes, even if I take a picture of a kid.  If someone asks me to delete the picture I took, I more often than not tell them I was shooting something just to the left of right of them.
> 
> (Yes, it's horrible and yes I'm a huge jerk.  I get it... not the point)


Congratulations.  You hit on the exact reason that I seldom take street shots.  I personally (note that I said "Personally") feel that people have a right to expect a certain amount of privacy even when in a public place.  I positively detest news crews on the street and told one once that if she didn't get that damn microphone out of my face she was going to eat it.

About the only times I take people photographs are in places where they would logically expect to be photographed.  In costume at an event, competitors in a sporting event, anything like that is fair game.  Someone walking down the street minding their own business, once again in my opinion, is not.

I do, however, agree that there are similarities in shooting people on the street and going on someone's property without permission.  Just as I will not trespass on someone's property I will not trespass on their personal space either.  To each their own ideals.

I will mention this though: In this part of the country there are a lot of people still processing "Moonshine" and there are a lot of people growing marijuana.  Getting caught in an area like that is a guaranteed way to disappear from the face of the Earth.


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## Joel_W (Apr 2, 2012)

Interesting thread to say the least. As for me, I live on Long Island, New York, and trespassing can end up with you being arrested and spend a few hours in jail. Case in point. My son, then just 20, and 6 or so of his friends, decided to check out an old abandoned mental hospital. Well, the guard saw them, called the police, and later I got the call to come on down to the police station and pick up my son. That wasn't the only gift they had for me. Seems that he, along with his friends had an appointment in court for trespassing. Each one got a fine and a warning.


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## slackercruster (Apr 2, 2012)

I do it. If they don't like it they throw me out. If it looks like they will shoot at me, I don't.


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## 12sndsgood (Apr 2, 2012)

Being thrown out seems like less of a worry then being arrested


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## banderson (Apr 2, 2012)

I generally like to ask for permission, however- There have definitely been times where I haven't. Especially when it is just inside of a no trespassing zone, OR when I know that I will kick myself over not getting the shot lol


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## TimGilbertson (Apr 2, 2012)

bratkinson said:


> About 2 years ago, shortly after I got up, I discovered someone in my front yard digging a hole with a hand shovel! Is that trespassing or not? Only after I came out yelling he identified himself as a town surveyor and the 'marker' was 2" under my grass. Turns out he was right! He's lucky I didn't come out shooting! Perhaps he rang my doorbell first and I didn't hear it. Perhaps not.



I'm also, among other things, a trained surveyor. I don't think I've ever asked a property owner to dig up a lot pin, because I know where it is and it's part of my job to find it. If we're on the topic of illegalities, it's illegal to tamper with lot pins or any other survey markers (not that it'd ever be enforced).


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## SCraig (Apr 2, 2012)

TimGilbertson said:


> I'm also, among other things, a trained surveyor. I don't think I've ever asked a property owner to dig up a lot pin, because I know where it is and it's part of my job to find it. If we're on the topic of illegalities, it's illegal to tamper with lot pins or any other survey markers (not that it'd ever be enforced).


I ran a survey crew for 12 years.  I never surveyed a parcel that I didn't at least try and let the property owner know who we were and what we were doing.  Even if we were expected I told them who we were.  Sometimes they weren't home or just didn't answer the door but I at least tried.  If I had to get on an adjoining parcel I'd do the same thing.  Not because I had to but out of respect for them and their property.

I don't know how things are in other parts of the world but around here people have a very, very high regard for their property.  I recall one survey very vividly, even after nearly 30 years.  Two women had lived next door to each other for 20 years and were close friends.  One of them wanted to put up a fence and hired us to stake the property line.  It was in a subdivision, we had good control, and found that the front corner fell a couple of feet over in the driveway of one of the parcels.  We didn't find the back corner and planned to go back the next day and finish up.  Next morning my boss told me to hold off going back out there.  Seems those two close friends had a falling out over the property corner and one of them shot the other one.  It didn't kill her but it put her in critical care.  We didn't finish that survey.

While this is an extreme example it does show the high regard people hold their property in.  I would really caution photographers that there are some people who truly will not tolerate trespassers on what they perceive to be their corner of the world.  There are places where people will take action first and ask questions later.  There are also a lot of rural areas where they won't even ask the questions.  I've been there and I've seen some.


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## table1349 (Apr 2, 2012)

jake337 said:


> Fixed!  One can overdose from almost every non-prescription drug available.
> 
> Cannabis is quite possibly one of the safest, substances on earth.
> 
> Don't blame the substance because of the negative issues that derive from it's prohibition and non-regulation.



You forgot to start your post with "Once upon a time in a magical kingdom..."

http://www.clinicalcorrelations.org/?p=2877
Cannabinoid Hyperemesis or "Marijuana Morning Sickness" -- clinmed/2001110001v1 -- Clinical Medicine NetPrints
Cannabinoid hyperemesis: cyclical hyperemesis in association with chronic cannabis abuse

Dangers of Smoking Marijuana
Marijuana Smoke Contains Higher Levels Of Certain Toxins Than Tobacco Smoke
THE MEDICAL DANGERS OF MARIJUANA USE


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## snapcult (Apr 2, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> > o hey tyler said:
> ...



Not the evil dope! I hear it makes you go blind and grow hair on your palms... Not to mention it kills almost zero people a year and is less addictive than coffee.


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## table1349 (Apr 2, 2012)

manaheim said:


> Out of curiosity... how many of those of you who say "I wouldn't go onto someone's property without asking permission" would take a picture of someone in the street without first asking if it was ok?
> 
> I take pictures of people on the street all the time and I never (ever) ask if it's ok.  Yes, even if I take a picture of a kid.  If someone asks me to delete the picture I took, I more often than not tell them I was shooting something just to the left of right of them.
> 
> (*Yes, it's horrible and yes I'm a huge jerk.  I get it... not the point*)



Why?  It's one thing to be in public where there is not expectation of privacy, and a whole different matter to violate someone else's private property.


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## table1349 (Apr 2, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


> BTW, what's a "doper?" Is that what the geriatric crowd calls cannabis users?



Got a mirror?  Use it.


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## table1349 (Apr 2, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


> It's okay, you can cry about your insecurities because your mom isn't as cool as mine. I'll even mail you some Kleenex and some Johnson & Johnson's "No Tears" baby shampoo. It's supposed to be extra gentle.



I'll let you keep "Cool" since cool losses it's luster rather quickly.  Which kind of cool is she  3' Afro cool,  Plaid bell bottom hip hugger cool? Hairy pits and unshaven leg hippy cool?  Oh wait, I'll bet she is DISCO Cool.  

Me I prefer integrity over cool.  Cool don't buy squat when looking for a good job, buying a house or buying the groceries.  

As for the Kleenex I'll send you the address of the federal institution.  Plenty of "Cool guys" that had chemicals they shouldn't have that could use them.  Instead of shampoo you might send them Vasoline instead.  A 55 gallon drum would be nice.  Plus they would put your Kleenex to good use after.  Well................you know.


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## table1349 (Apr 2, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> Hmmmm.. idea for sign, maybe?
> 
> *Trespassers make GOOD fertilizer!*



Texas Trespassing sign:






Arkansas Trespassing sign:


Religious Trespassing sign:





Mississippi Trespassing sign"





Pimp Trespassing sign:





Last, but by no means least:


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## o hey tyler (Apr 2, 2012)

gryphonslair99 said:
			
		

> Got a mirror?  Use it.



How did you manage to get a morse code to text translator for the web, grandpa? Do tell!


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## Mrgiggls (Apr 2, 2012)




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## tirediron (Apr 2, 2012)

*Okay, [reasonably] respectful debate is a good thing, outright insults are not.  Let's all play nice, 'kay? *


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## table1349 (Apr 2, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yep, I am a grandpa to two cute little girls.  Being raised by two loving parents, who while they may not be "cool", they are responsible and are teaching them right from wrong.  If you P.M. me I will be glad to see if they would have the time to give you a few lessons as well.  Just don't expect anything from me for Christmas though if they decide to tutor you a bit.


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## Kerbouchard (Apr 2, 2012)

slackercruster said:


> I do it. If they don't like it they throw me out. If it looks like they will shoot at me, I don't.



See, that's the thing.  Laws vary by state, and sometimes quite a bit.  In Texas, Criminal Tresspassing during the nightime is an offense where lethal force is authorized.  It is specificially mentioned in the deadly force statutes.  No need to warn, no need to fire a warning shot, no need to ask that person to leave.  It truly is a shoot first and ask questions later type of law.  And you know what, as a property owner in Texas, I fully support that law.

See, the thing is, if you come around my house poking around, I'm not going to ask you to leave.  I probably won't even let you know you are about to get shot.

See, I grew up different than you yank's up North.  If I wanted to fish in a neighbor's pond or use somebody else's property, I asked permission, promised not to leave any trash, and promised not to disturb the livestock.  If you didn't leave the area better than you found it and if you didn't ask permission, you weren't welcome back.  We knew that at 8 years old.

Hard to believe that a bunch of adults can't understand the same thing.


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## table1349 (Apr 2, 2012)

Kerbouchard said:


> slackercruster said:
> 
> 
> > I do it. If they don't like it they throw me out. If it looks like they will shoot at me, I don't.
> ...



Sounds to me like we got some folks here that were raised up as youngun's by responsible, sensible people.  Why I would bet that they have even hear of this fella called Jerry Clower. 

*You&#8217;re Fixin&#8217; To Mess Up&#8221;

 &#8220;Just recently I had the privilege of doing a show at Samford  University in Birmingham, [Alabama].  Some of the young people there  said, &#8216;Mr. Clower, what&#8217;s right and wrong?&#8217; Tell us, we&#8217;re young people,  tell us, what&#8217;s right and wrong.
Well you ask a pretty good question. So I worked me up a rule of thumb I&#8217;d like to recommend to my own children, and to young people. 



If you&#8217;re fixin&#8217; to make a decision about what&#8217;s right and what&#8217;s  wrong in your life, do you ask other people&#8217;s opinion about it? That&#8217;s a  pretty good indication your fixin&#8217; to mess up. I was getting ready for a  date one night when I was a little ole boy. And I walked into the side  room and I said, &#8216;Mama, is my shirt dirty?&#8217; She said, &#8216;Son, if you&#8217;re in  doubt, it&#8217;s dirty. Pull it off and getcha another.&#8217; So if you&#8217;re fixin&#8217;  to do something, and you want to know if it&#8217;s right or not, number one:  do you ask other people&#8217;s opinion about it?



Number two: do you argue with yourself? Man, I have spent a  million mile on the highway arguing with Jerry about I oughta do a  certain thing and I knew in my heart, I was lying. So if you&#8217;re arguin&#8217;  with yourself, pretty good indication you should not do it. 



Number three: do you feel uneasy when you do it? Had ya just as  soon for somebody not see you doin&#8217; what it is you&#8217;d done decided is  alright for you to do? 



And Number four: Can you give thanks and say &#8216;Lord, I thank ya  for providing this for me.&#8217;? Alright, you&#8217;d done made up your mind:  you&#8217;re gonna do it. The Bible says, give thanks for all things. So when  you do it, can ya say &#8216;Lord, thank ya for providing this for me. And I  some kinda thank ya, for fixin&#8217; it where I can commit to what it is I&#8217;m  doin.&#8217;?



What is right or wrong?, Do you ask other people?, Do you aruge  with yourself?, Do you feel uneasy when you do it?, Can ya give thanks  and say &#8216;Lord, I thank ya for providing this for me.&#8217;? If you can&#8217;t, you  better watch out&#8230;You&#8217;re fixin&#8217; to mess up.&#8221;
*
May not be "cool" but damn good advise.


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## banderson (Apr 3, 2012)

gryphonslair99 said:


> jake337 said:
> 
> 
> > Fixed!  One can overdose from almost every non-prescription drug available.Cannabis is quite possibly one of the safest, substances on earth.Don't blame the substance because of the negative issues that derive from it's prohibition and non-regulation.
> ...


never had any kind of morning sickness from it, but that wouldn't be anything like a HANGOVER WOULD it? lol two things about that second article- one- most people wouldn't be smoking a joint every time a cigarette user would be having the equivalent.two- there is more than one way to consume cannabis. edibles, vaporizers, etc. speaking of which, I forgot I've got a potent brownie in the freezer You


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## Kerbouchard (Apr 3, 2012)

gryphonslair99 said:


> Kerbouchard said:
> 
> 
> > slackercruster said:
> ...



Well, here, we will just have to part ways.  IMO, might as well ask Santa Clause for advice.  I don't need to ask any fictional characters about what is right and wrong.

The only thing you said in your edit that made any sense was if somebody saw me doing it, would I be ashamed...well, that's an easy one to answer.

If you don't want somebody to see what you are doing, or as Tyler says, leave any evidence, than it's probably a pretty sure fired way to figure out that you shouldn't be doing it in the first place.


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## banderson (Apr 3, 2012)

gryphonslair99 said:


> o hey tyler said:
> 
> 
> > It's okay, you can cry about your insecurities because your mom isn't as cool as mine. I'll even mail you some Kleenex and some Johnson & Johnson's "No Tears" baby shampoo. It's supposed to be extra gentle.
> ...


get off of your high horse. I work a full time job, go to school and have never had more than a simple parking ticket. in fact, I have been caught once- but the officer let me off because he knew that I am a responsible person. he even let me keep the bag I have never used or even thought about using another substance. Sure there are a lot of people who go on to use other drugs, but those people are predispositioned to doing drugs. that doesnt mean that the cannabis did it. I would say quite a few of your "citations" come from the findings of the Reagan administration. did you know that they actually used findings from a test in which they gas masked monkeys, and pumped cannabis smoke into their lungs without adding any oxygen into the gas masks. they did this for weeks on end until the monkeys died. they then used these findings to show that smoking cannabis kills brain cells, when in fact the brain damage was caused by lack of oxygen. if you read into more recent scientific evidence, youll find that cannabis use has been shown to promote brain cell growth. you can go on with those stereotypes spinning around in your head, but I can assure you that they are just that.


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## Demers18 (Apr 3, 2012)

manaheim said:
			
		

> So here's a story to consider...
> 
> Let's say I "know a guy" and "he told me this"...
> 
> ...



You live in the states right?

That would probably explain that story. (not meant in a bad way) the US of A has that kind of reputation pretty much everywhere outside the US.


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## Natalie (Apr 3, 2012)

That is true... Unfortunately the US doesn't allow the public the right to roam like many other developed countries do. It's really a shame, especially considering the fact that many states have very little public land even, giving people literally nowhere to go except Walmart, McDonald's, or in front of a TV. The disconnect between the land and and the people here is frustrating and ultimately harmful to the entire population - if Americans could (and chose to) spend more time out in the wilderness hiking and whatnot, maybe they wouldn't be so overweight and unhealthy.


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## Aetherbound (Apr 3, 2012)

"It's easier to ask for forgiveness than it is to get permission" -_Grace Hopper_


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## kharp (Apr 3, 2012)

I've trespassed just to see things and in turn got some pretty great shots. I wouldn't go into someone's yard without their permission. I don't want to be shot at. But, I don't see a problem with going somewhere that's been abandoned and nobody seems to care about it. I don't litter or destroy anything. I think, too, that if it's during the day you look less likey to be up to no good than you may at night.


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## jake337 (Apr 3, 2012)

gryphonslair99 said:


> jake337 said:
> 
> 
> > Fixed!  One can overdose from almost every non-prescription drug available.
> ...





So you should really do some background search about the articles you post and who is writing them and what their agenda is.  Seriously.  One of the first things taught in English classes is anything you read must first have the writer/s scrutinized first.  The writers possible hidden agenda should be your main focus before trying to understand what they are writing about. 

Here's an interesting study....Marijuana and pregnancy.


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## cgipson1 (Apr 3, 2012)

Aetherbound said:


> "It's easier to ask for forgiveness than it is to get permission" -_Grace Hopper_



Not if they shoot first and ask questions later!


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## manaheim (Apr 3, 2012)

All we need is guns and Hitler in this thread and we'll have an internet BINGO.


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## snapcult (Apr 3, 2012)

M'erica, no trespassing... Well unless of course it's got Indians on it, then it's on.


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## JSER (Apr 3, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


> I occasionally trespass (mainly for the lulz). Never on a property where someone is home, or working. Never do I leave any type of trace of me being there, nor do I take anything away from the property.
> 
> The way I see it: No harm, no foul.
> 
> If there is a place more deserving of a permit, then yes I'd certainly get them. It's all up to your own judgement. This is of course, my opinion... and I live in a pretty thinly populated state as well where most laws are pretty lax.



I would be ashamed to openy admit I brake the law and trespass onto other peoples property


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## bentcountershaft (Apr 3, 2012)

The idea of trespassing and the seriousness of it is obviously dependent on regional influences.  In some places it just isn't that big of a deal to people and in others it is.  Where I'm from falls in the don't do it category.  People around here are protective of their property and their privacy.  If I were to move to a place where people are more forgiving about it I would probably be regarded as an over zealous asshole.  If someone from one of the more forgiving places were to move to my area they would probably be regarded as too trusting and naive.  

Regarding marijuana and it's varying degrees of legality I will only say this:  I would gladly trade a drunk for a pot head.


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## snapcult (Apr 3, 2012)

bentcountershaft said:


> The idea of trespassing and the seriousness of it is obviously dependent on regional influences.  In some places it just isn't that big of a deal to people and in others it is.  Where I'm from falls in the don't do it category.  People around here are protective of their property and their privacy.  If I were to move to a place where people are more forgiving about it I would probably be regarded as an over zealous asshole.  If someone from one of the more forgiving places were to move to my area they would probably be regarded as too trusting and naive.
> 
> Regarding marijuana and it's varying degrees of legality I will only say this:  I would gladly trade a drunk for a pot head.



Not me man... How many times do you hear about a person who smoked pot and beat his wife or kids compared to how many people get drunk and do the same thing.


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## bentcountershaft (Apr 3, 2012)

I mean I would get rid of a drunk and take in a pot head.  My communication skills are lacking today.  I'll make it simple enough for myself to understand:

&#8203;Drunks suck.  Potheads are whatevs.


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## banderson (Apr 3, 2012)

bentcountershaft said:


> I mean I would get rid of a drunk and take in a pot head.  My communication skills are lacking today.  I'll make it simple enough for myself to understand:
> 
> &#8203;Drunks suck.  Potheads are whatevs.



lol I think that was sarcasm. 

edit: Maybe not though lol


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## banderson (Apr 3, 2012)

manaheim said:


> All we need is guns and Hitler in this thread and we'll have an internet BINGO.



You just made this a reality--- BINGO


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## tirediron (Apr 3, 2012)

*I think we've wandered far enough off track.*


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