# Club Photography help



## Starskream666 (Nov 10, 2014)

Hi all I am need of some serious help. Last night I had my first paid nightclub shoot in a while. The lighting was mostly dark and ever changing, which is to be expected (omg what the f do you do when the strobe lights start)

My equipment i was using :
Friends borrowed 600d
Samyang fisheye
50mm 1.8

First off I am now aware how awful this combination is. Most people dont appreciate you having to stick the camera so close to them with an external flash because you're using the fisheye, i actually feel bad for some of them. However sometimes this lens gives a good effect.

The 50 however is never any use to me at all. Every time I switch to this lens through the night ill think 'Right time to get some arty far away shots, or some sharp personal expressions'
However what happens is either... It is too dark to not use the flash and subjects are too far away that using the flash either lights everything everywhere or lights nothing. Or I will wait for some nice ambient light so i dont need the flash and i won't be able to focus because its too dark etc. I hardly ever get a good shot with the 50. It could be to do with my lack of knowledge about the external flash settings. (Zoom function)

I need advice on tactics and what equipment i should use.

My plan is to get a 6d and keep my 50 because the full frame will make it more of a 35mm which  might be an easier mm.

Cheers


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## Derrel (Nov 10, 2014)

Well...I owned a Canon 50mm/1.8 EF-II for a while, and used it with the 20D and 5D...it's NOT a really good lens as far as autofocusing, and in dimmer lighting conditions, or in flat lighting situations, it's just not a really good focuser. I ended up giving the lens away to my wife's nephew. I replaced it with the Canon 50mm f/1.4 EF, which is/was a MUCH better lens in terms of focusing.

In realllllly bad lighting conditions when using flash, the best option is to put the camera into single-shot AF mode, and enable the AF assist system, which projects light that the camera's AF system can easily "see"; using the AF assist system reallllly helps!

On a full-frame body, a 50mm lens is actually kind of a useful lens focal length; it's not wide, it's not tele, it's...normal! It gives a natural look to the background's distance and width; a wide lens distorts the backgrounds apparent size and distance, and also shows a wider swath of background; the 50mm lens is a nice compromise between wide-angle and telephoto.


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## Starskream666 (Nov 10, 2014)

People kept saying 'no move back you're too close'
I'm using a fisheye aha it got annoying explaining... but as i said i don't blame them.


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## jaomul (Nov 10, 2014)

Rent/borrow a 35mm or better still sigmas 18-35mm f1.8.


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## tirediron (Nov 10, 2014)

This sort of extreme environment is one of those cases where equipment does make a difference, and an entry-level consumer body simply does not have the auto-focusing or low-light performance to deal well with it.  I'm not a Canonite, so I can't comment on the capabilities of the 6D, but I hope it's a significant upgrade.

I have to admit that I'm at a loss as to understand why you're accepting paid commissions, and acting surprised about the working conditions.  A big part of being a professional is being able to take what's thrown at you, and in a case like this, some practice would have gone a long way toward mitigating less than ideal results.

I would strongly recommend that you not take on further paid work until you've sorted out your difficulties.  Read both your camera and speedlight manuals cover-to-cover, and spend some time reading up on bounced flash, as well as rear-curtain sync.  You should also add a TTL cord to your kit so that you can hand-hold the flash off-camera.  Most of your focusing issues should I think, be rectified by the use of your camera's AF-Assist light.

FWIW, focal length is focal length.  Your 50mm lens is a 50mm lens irrespective of the body it's on.  When used on an APS-C body, it will give a field of view similar to that of a 75-80mm lens, but when used on an FF body, it will be that of a 50mm lens, NOT a 35mm.


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## MOREGONE (Nov 10, 2014)

Fisheye's are great for behind the DJ and up on stage, maybe some crowd shots but yeah, not the best for people pics.

But telling them in advance that you're going to get close is helpful. Sometimes I stand back and then step in closer after I put the camera to my face and also step up to get a higher shooting angle. Kind of becomes a motion and a lot of the time people in the pic will crouch in the same fashion. Also you should have plenty of resolution for some cropping, so maybe get as close as comfortable and then crop as desired. I'm guessing 99% of these will just be Facebook pics and you will have more that enough pixels to crop away.

Flash, I leave it as TTL sometimes and manual other nights. Just depending how consistent the lighting is and what the venue is. If you're bouncing flash some people say to zoom in with the flash to make sure more light gets to the surface you are bouncing off. And if you're using a modifier to zoom out or use the Wide Angle diffuser as to distribute the light throughout the diffuser better.

Happy shooting


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## Starskream666 (Nov 10, 2014)

Cheers, I said 'it was to be expected' I knew what to expect from the lighting, i was just asking what people usually do when the strobelights start (if anything).
The 6d is known for being great in low light with low noise
Most canons don't have an auto focus light or I would have used it believe me haha.
a full frame 50mm will be an advantage to me I know its not going to be like a 35mm im not sure why I said that but it is obviously going to be easier to work with than the 50s current focal length no the crop sensor

Cheers


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## tirediron (Nov 10, 2014)

I have merged your two threads.  Please DO NOT cross-post.  Thank-you.


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## Starskream666 (Nov 10, 2014)

MOREGONE said:


> Fisheye's are great for behind the DJ and up on stage, maybe some crowd shots but yeah, not the best for people pics.
> 
> But telling them in advance that you're going to get close is helpful. Sometimes I stand back and then step in closer after I put the camera to my face and also step up to get a higher shooting angle. Kind of becomes a motion and a lot of the time people in the pic will crouch in the same fashion. Also you should have plenty of resolution for some cropping, so maybe get as close as comfortable and then crop as desired. I'm guessing 99% of these will just be Facebook pics and you will have more that enough pixels to crop away.
> 
> ...




Thanks a lot, yeah I'm currently cropping around 300 pictures haha. 
My flash doesn't have a TTL feature its the yung nuo 560 and as my fisheye's aperture setting is done on the lens itself and not on the camera, it makes using auto options harder.


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## Starskream666 (Nov 10, 2014)

Starskream666 said:


> MOREGONE said:
> 
> 
> > Fisheye's are great for behind the DJ and up on stage, maybe some crowd shots but yeah, not the best for people pics.
> ...



I dunno how to edit a post on this new website layout but...

What settings do you find you usually use? Most my shots were just down to luck, the ones that turned out ok. I was mostly on about 1 second exposure with the flash or a bit faster. Crowd shots just seemed to look dull until i edit them


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## Mach0 (Nov 10, 2014)

Get adequate gear before taking paid gigs. I've done clubs quite a bit. I used a bounce card or stoffen cap for a bare bulb effect. Slow shutter ( not long exposure ) and higher ISO.... Not too hard


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## KmH (Nov 10, 2014)

Canon EF 50mm F1.8 II review: Digital Photography Review


> *Conclusion - Cons*





> Extremely cheaply built
> Harsh and distracting bokeh due to pentagonal aperture
> Vignetting at wide apertures on full frame (which only disappears at F3.5)
> *Inconsistent autofocus in low light (most problematic when using large apertures*)


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## MOREGONE (Nov 10, 2014)

I usually walk in with something like f3.5, 1/30th and ISO 1600 on my D600. I set the flash to rear curtain sync. With the flash firing at the end it should do a good job of freezing your subjects as is. Working without TTL, I would start of at something like 1/16th and start dialing it in from there. Trust me, I always have an adjustment period at the beginning of each shoot. My first shots are usually not keepers lol. 

One second is just way to long IMO unless you're going for some creative blurring. You would still want rear curtain sync so the blurring isn't written over the pop of flash lightening the subject. Cropping 300 sounds bad but if you did it in Lightroom it would be easy to sync across all the images or create a preset of a couple that like Crop, Tighter Crop, Super Tight Crop etc.

And man I do not envy those working conditions. Either the 50 on crop or a fisheye with no auto aperture control, no AF assist, ouch!!

When the strobes really get going crazy and lights start blasting, seldom to I get good people shots. Great for ambiance and venue shots but hard to dial in right for people in quickly changing conditions. The building doesn't know if you just way over or under exposed the shot of it, but the group of people may want to see the picture.


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## Overread (Nov 10, 2014)

This is one of those more challenging situations indeed. 

Firstly I fully second Tired's point on waiting and practising more before doing any more paid work. Whilst a good photographer can turn their hand to anything (within reason) different events and situations can present a vastly different skill set that you have to work with (which can be very different to anything you've done before). Furthermore if you are working the expectation is that you'll get a good number of shots - not just a few "got lucky" shots. 
Practice is what you need so that you can go into the event with several skills and ideas that you can put to use to get shots - they might not be "unique" each time but they'll be solid usable shots. 

Another thought is that you're asking questions, which is good, but also self-learn as well. Go back through your shots. Start to identify patterns in how you've shot and then ask yourself if those patterns work. Do this now - get an idea for what has and hasn't worked for you and what you might change next time - then do that next time. Try to change it up the first few times you do this as practice so that you don't get set into bad habits (which are a lot harder to shake). 

If the lighting is very changeable you might find that a semi-auto mode is the best approach. However look at the light itself - you might find that the background lighting isn't changing very much, so you could use manual mode and fix the settings - accepting that a few might be more over-exposed when specific lights start messing around with exposure.
You could also throw the aperture wide - keep the shutter speed at a sane speed and then use auto ISO to take the ISO up and down as needed (letting the flash then fill in what is missing). 

Experiment and see what diferent settings give you - also going to more clubs will give you a feel for how they pan-out. You might also want to consider talking to the DJ before the event as they might well know the light plan for the evening (getting a heads up on things is important for being ahead of the game)


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## gsgary (Nov 11, 2014)

Starskream666 said:


> Hi all I am need of some serious help. Last night I had my first paid nightclub shoot in a while. The lighting was mostly dark and ever changing, which is to be expected (omg what the f do you do when the strobe lights start)
> 
> My equipment i was using :
> Friends borrowed 600d
> ...



 How the hell will it make it like a 35mm when it is 50mm


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## Overread (Nov 11, 2014)

gsgary said:


> My plan is to get a 6d and keep my 50 because the full frame will make it more of a 35mm which  might be an easier mm.
> 
> Cheers



 How the hell will it make it like a 35mm when it is 50mm [/QUOTE]

Come on Gary keep up - we are talking comparative fields of view.


I mean back in the yea olden days of digital everyone was doing it 35mm to crop - now the newer generations of photographers are doing it crop to 35mm. 

And the medium and large format guys are still out in the sticks on their own


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## gsgary (Nov 11, 2014)

Overread said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> > My plan is to get a 6d and keep my 50 because the full frame will make it more of a 35mm which  might be an easier mm.
> ...



Come on Gary keep up - we are talking comparative fields of view.


I mean back in the yea olden days of digital everyone was doing it 35mm to crop - now the newer generations of photographers are doing it crop to 35mm. 

And the medium and large format guys are still out in the sticks on their own[/QUOTE]
50mm is 50mm no matter what camera you put it on


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## Overread (Nov 11, 2014)

Yes but we are talking comparative angles of view or fields of view or whatever that view term is that people compare things to


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## gsgary (Nov 12, 2014)

Overread said:


> Yes but we are talking comparative angles of view or fields of view or whatever that view term is that people compare things to


It still does not turn a 50mm into a 35, I will be shooting my 35 and 50 in London this weekend maybe I should just take my 50 if it will turn into a 35 I only need 1 lens


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## MOREGONE (Nov 12, 2014)

gsgary said:


> It still does not turn a 50mm into a 35, I will be shooting my 35 and 50 in London this weekend maybe I should just take my 50 if it will turn into a 35 I only need 1 lens



Awesome, got it. We all understood and you are having a hard time reconciling it, no biggie. But if you don't have anything worthwhile to contribute then why even post? </done>


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## MOREGONE (Nov 12, 2014)

I lose at the Internet today. Didn't recognize the juvenile troll even though it clearly presented itself as such.


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## dennybeall (Nov 12, 2014)

Lots of fun things to do with the strobes firing. Stop down the lens a bit, open the shutter for a few seconds and get some multi-exposure looking shots. Or set f-stop and shutter speed for the strobe as if it was a flash firing. Try tripping the shutter very fast...........................


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## W.Y.Photo (Nov 14, 2014)

Denny's got a good idea there.. Use the erratic and unpredictable lighting to your advantage and make some images with long exposures where the subjects are surrounded by swirls of lights or the strobe has created a stepped image of a dancer pulling off a sweet move.


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