# Do what I say not what I do. lol



## zombiesniper (Oct 5, 2018)

I always tell wildlife photographers if you want to make money at it, host tours or do speaking engagement but whatever you do. Do not try to make a living selling them.

Now here I am either about to eat my words or prove my theory to be correct.

This is my gallery booth and it's a test bench to see what the chances are to make anything at selling wildlife photos.




 

I have an assortment of Jr's and my photos in 5x7, 8x10 framed and unframed as well as a 24" metal print and some calendars.

The booth was offered free for the weekend with the option to rent for Nov-Dec.
I'll test this weekend and make a call by Monday if I intend to try the pre holiday sales. If I do go for it Jr. and Mrs. Zombie have agreed to help out when needed.

I still wonder sometimes what the heck I'm doing.


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## Designer (Oct 5, 2018)

Where is the gallery?
How many visitors are expected?
Do people buy from other vendors here?
What other items are for sale here?
Please keep us posted, especially after the weekend.
Good luck!


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## zombiesniper (Oct 5, 2018)

Designer said:


> Where is the gallery?
> How many visitors are expected?
> Do people buy from other vendors here?
> What other items are for sale here?
> ...



Where is the gallery?
Just off of a major 6-8 lane highway one hour north of Toronto.
The 400 Market at 2207 Industrial Park Rd Innisfil Ontario.

How many visitors are expected?
Average a few thousand every day.

Do people buy from other vendors here? What other items are for sale here?
400 Market has a few hundred vendors selling a wide variety of products.
My booth is within 30' of the bathrooms and the ATM as well as being within 50' of concession stands.

Please keep us posted, especially after the weekend.
Good luck!

I will thank you.


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## tirediron (Oct 5, 2018)

Very cool!  I like the fact that you've not jammed every square inch of the walls with prints, but have left enough room so that people can see each image on its own.  Good luck!


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## jcdeboever (Oct 5, 2018)

Good selling. I am believing you will sell 100%


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## zombiesniper (Oct 5, 2018)

tirediron said:


> Very cool!  I like the fact that you've not jammed every square inch of the walls with prints, but have left enough room so that people can see each image on its own.  Good luck!



Thank you. That was kind of the idea. More of a gallery feel than just jam as much stuff in as possible.



jcdeboever said:


> Good selling. I am believing you will sell 100%



Thank you. Mr.s Zombie would be ecstatic with 100%. I'd be happy to be in the black at all at the end of this trial.


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## SquarePeg (Oct 5, 2018)

This is great!  Best of luck with the sales.  Looking forward to reading about your success.


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## zombiesniper (Oct 5, 2018)

Thank you.


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## otherprof (Oct 5, 2018)

zombiesniper said:


> I always tell wildlife photographers if you want to make money at it, host tours or do speaking engagement but whatever you do. Do not try to make a living selling them.
> 
> Now here I am either about to eat my words or prove my theory to be correct.
> 
> ...


Good luck!  Both of you do great work.


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## Bollygum (Oct 5, 2018)

What sort of wildlife pics do you take?  I think that you possible need some sort of picture sales to help promote your overall image.  Do you sell to magazines,etc?


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## Jeff G (Oct 5, 2018)

I think your next endeavor should be portraits with live animals in your booth!    Seriously, good luck, you need at least one sign somewhere that says "Makes a Perfect Christmas Gift" some folks will be swayed by this. Nothing wrong with the product, now to test your salesmanship.


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## Jeff15 (Oct 5, 2018)

I wish you the very best of luck, please keep us informed....


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## zombiesniper (Oct 5, 2018)

otherprof said:


> Good luck!  Both of you do great work.


Thank you



Bollygum said:


> What sort of wildlife pics do you take?  I think that you possible need some sort of picture sales to help promote your overall image.  Do you sell to magazines,etc?


I'm not to interested in magazines even though I am working with a local photo shops magazine for an article.
This is just a test to see if it's viable.
I have no expectation that this will be a retirement plan.



Jeff G said:


> I think your next endeavor should be portraits with live animals in your booth!    Seriously, good luck, you need at least one sign somewhere that says "Makes a Perfect Christmas Gift" some folks will be swayed by this. Nothing wrong with the product, now to test your salesmanship.



Tigers and lion and Zombies. Oh my!
Thank you



Jeff15 said:


> I wish you the very best of luck, please keep us informed....


Thank you. 
We'll see how it goes.


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## Bollygum (Oct 5, 2018)

May I ask why you try to sell your photos?  I'm guessing that money is not the major motivation.


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## zombiesniper (Oct 6, 2018)

Just to see how viable this method sales are in my area. 
I intend to start my own artists market in the future and need to see what does and doesn’t work. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## snowbear (Oct 6, 2018)

Hope it goes well.


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## Dean_Gretsch (Oct 6, 2018)

Do you and Jr. have a friendly bet for who's work does best? Good luck. You should make a killing on your snowy shots!


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## webestang64 (Oct 6, 2018)

Good luck! 

I was at my local antique mall and saw a booth with nothing but a photographers work. I'm keeping an eye on that booth to see how well they do.


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## zombiesniper (Oct 6, 2018)

snowbear said:


> Hope it goes well.


Thank you.



Dean_Gretsch said:


> Do you and Jr. have a friendly bet for who's work does best? Good luck. You should make a killing on your snowy shots!


No bet but seeing how I'm the one selling........ 



webestang64 said:


> Good luck!
> 
> I was at my local antique mall and saw a booth with nothing but a photographers work. I'm keeping an eye on that booth to see how well they do.


It really is depending on the time of year and the focus of the venue.

Most that visit this market are not really interested in buying anything. It's more a spend some time browsing crowd. So for every 100 people I saw 1-2 would walk through and with this being the Canadian Thanks Giving weekend (I know those south of the border have a different day and the rest of the world wonder what were all on about. lol) Many people have gone to visit family. So 5 of lookers for sale would be hard to guess.

For me this is a learning experience on how I want to run mine. I have learned a few things today from the market that I will take with me when it's my turn to organize one.


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## DarkShadow (Oct 6, 2018)

Good Luck your work is excellent both of you and hope you make some sales from these fine fine prints.


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## zombiesniper (Oct 7, 2018)

Thank you.

The end of two days during Thanks giving weekend went as well as I expected, and went better. Hear me out it will make sense.

Sales were none.

First day was very difficult to get anyone in the booth. I had maybe a 0.5% engagement rate. This is what I was expecting so it wasn't much of a surprise that only a few people came through.
Many factors are attributed to this.
Holiday weekend where families tend not to go out and shop at large markets.
Not many people know I'm there yet and many people were surprised to see a photographer in this booth. I even had a couple of repeat customers (looking to get refunds on faulty products) of the previous booth owner.

Day two was better. Even though the market had less than half of the foot traffic on Sunday, I did significantly better turning a person casually walking by into a potential customer that came into the booth. This day I was around a 7-8% engagement.
My direct photo sales were still zero but I have five potential clients for family portraits, one gentleman wants me to photograph him and his sailboat and a couple of gentlemen want me to photograph their cars.

At the end of the weekend I would say I'm about where I thought I would be in direct sales but I am ahead of where I thoughtI would be with future jobs.

Mrs. Zombie and I have decided we will give Nov&Dec a go. This was a really bad weekend to start on and the Christmas season can only help.

Oh and one other thing I did different on Sunday that I did not do on Saturday was to bring the conversation starter with me. lol


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## Jeff G (Oct 7, 2018)

Good call on bringing the "conversation starter". Congrats on the future sessions. Glad you got what you needed from a trial run. 

So how did those refunds go


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## Bollygum (Oct 7, 2018)

May I ask, do you like doing family portraits, car photos or yacht photos?  

It strikes me that you like wildlife (mainly bird) photography and investigating the potential for selling same was your objective.  Family portraits are not going to pay for your 500mm f4 and, if you are like me, you will hate doing them.  Selling wildlife photos is unlikely to pay for it either but you love doing it so any money earned is great - and it helps justify your hobby as people buying your photos tends to affirm that your photos are good.


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## zombiesniper (Oct 7, 2018)

I have a studio in my house and do portraits.

My gear is paid for. You assume to much.

You seem to have a lot of hang ups. Live life. If you never try, you never succeed.


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## Dean_Gretsch (Oct 7, 2018)

Congrats on getting the future jobs and may they lead to others!


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## jcdeboever (Oct 7, 2018)

Hey, not bad. Good experience.  Great idea about the gear. Next time dress up, make duck or Turkey calls when people walk by.


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## Bollygum (Oct 7, 2018)

So you do like portraits - my mistake, I apologise.
Of course your gear is paid for, why would I think anything different.
As for my hangups - I guess we all have some, but mine have nothing to do with photography.  
Just trying to help, but maybe I hit a nerve.


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## zombiesniper (Oct 8, 2018)

Dean_Gretsch said:


> Congrats on getting the future jobs and may they lead to others!


Thank you.



jcdeboever said:


> Hey, not bad. Good experience.  Great idea about the gear. Next time dress up, make duck or Turkey calls when people walk by.


Thank you.........will ducks and turkeys buy photo's? A whole new market I was ignoring!


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## zombiesniper (Oct 8, 2018)

Bollygum said:


> So you do like portraits - my mistake, I apologise.
> Of course your gear is paid for, why would I think anything different.
> As for my hangups - I guess we all have some, but mine have nothing to do with photography.
> Just trying to help, but maybe I hit a nerve.



You may be trying to help. I get that but do your homework. As a minimum look into who your giving advice to.
You assumed that I wouldn't like one form of photography since I mainly display another.
The following is why I would think you assumed my gear isn't paid for.


Bollygum said:


> Family portraits are not going to pay for your 500mm f4 .



The only nerve you hit was the ever popular lazy advice the internet likes to dole out. 

I do appreciate that you may have been trying to help, but you also have to appreciate unhelpful advice is still unhelpful.


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## Bollygum (Oct 8, 2018)

The odd thing is that I did look at your website and guess what?  There were no portraits so how was I meant to guess that you were an accomplished portrait photographer?


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## zombiesniper (Oct 8, 2018)

Home - Trevor Baldwin-Portrait and pet photographer


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## Bollygum (Oct 8, 2018)

Wow.  Now where did I get that other link that just show your photos of birds and a few animals? I'm not really interested in portraits, so I'll leave you to it.


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## n614cd (Oct 8, 2018)

zombiesniper said:


> Home - Trevor Baldwin-Portrait and pet photographer


The veterans project is super cool.

Sent from my SM-J737T using Tapatalk


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## zombiesniper (Oct 8, 2018)

Thank you.

The idea is all @tirediron. I was allowed to participate.


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## tirediron (Oct 8, 2018)

I'd write that up as a success!  It might be worth having a small part of one wall, or better yet, a bound portfolio of your other work, so that when potential customers come through, you can show them nice prints (and hopefully sell them big prints at a fat mark-up).  Out of curiosity, do you mind sharing the cost of the booth?


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## zombiesniper (Oct 8, 2018)

tirediron said:


> I'd write that up as a success!  It might be worth having a small part of one wall, or better yet, a bound portfolio of your other work, so that when potential customers come through, you can show them nice prints (and hopefully sell them big prints at a fat mark-up).  Out of curiosity, do you mind sharing the cost of the booth?



We're going to change up the layout a little with adding in some portraits (Human and dog) as well as I will have an iPad there with a bunch of photos on it as well.

The booth was free for the weekend but the market rents an 8' booth for $400 a month with a 2 month minimum. This is a double booth ($800) and since photography falls under crafts there is a discount ($355 vs $400 per 8'). So instead of a $1600 minimum I will pay $1420.
Normally I would think this is overpriced but right before the holidays and this year those two months give me 9 weekends it isn't that bad considering in Nov/Dec a lot of venues here charge $650 for one weekend.


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## tirediron (Oct 8, 2018)

Doesn't seem a bad price, especially since I'm guessing that it's only going to start getting busier and busier as we get closer to Christmas!


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## zombiesniper (Oct 8, 2018)

That was our logic as well.


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## tirediron (Oct 8, 2018)

Did you get a rough tally of the foot traffic?  Not just those that stopped, but overall?  It would be interesting to see how that compares to mid-December.  FWIW, I think your turnover rate is pretty respectable.


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## zulu42 (Oct 8, 2018)

Awesome experiment and kudos for putting your work out there. I do have a couple thoughts as far as retail strategy. My uneducated guess is that it would serve well to display as many products - other than framed prints - as possible. I just don't think that many people decorate their homes with framed photographs - wildlife or otherwise. When I'm in other people's homes, the only photos I usually see are family photos. Calendars seem like a good idea, but attach a place to them "The Stunning Raptors of Ontario". The metal print or a canvas print is more of a "decorator piece" than a framed print, IMO. A mug with an awesome owl on it might sell more often than a print of an owl. Only my guess. And if you also print "Ontario" on it, the print or the mug, it might sell even better. Greeting cards. Coffee table books. Garments.

Best luck and it is really interesting to follow along with your experience in retail!


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## zombiesniper (Oct 8, 2018)

tirediron said:


> Did you get a rough tally of the foot traffic?  Not just those that stopped, but overall?  It would be interesting to see how that compares to mid-December.  FWIW, I think your turnover rate is pretty respectable.


Total foot traffic that passed my area was about 50-100 per hour on Saturday and about half of that on Sunday.



zulu42 said:


> Awesome experiment and kudos for putting your work out there. I do have a couple thoughts as far as retail strategy. My uneducated guess is that it would serve well to display as many products - other than framed prints - as possible. I just don't think that many people decorate their homes with framed photographs - wildlife or otherwise. When I'm in other people's homes, the only photos I usually see are family photos. Calendars seem like a good idea, but attach a place to them "The Stunning Raptors of Ontario". The metal print or a canvas print is more of a "decorator piece" than a framed print, IMO. A mug with an awesome owl on it might sell more often than a print of an owl. Only my guess. And if you also print "Ontario" on it, the print or the mug, it might sell even better. Greeting cards. Coffee table books. Garments.
> 
> Best luck and it is really interesting to follow along with your experience in retail!



I agree that mugs and trinkets sell more than prints. The 400 Market would not consider these in the same product category and the rent would be full price. More important this would not be valuable information for me as my final goal is not to be a vendor but an event coordinator for an Artist market.

Also...who are these boring peoples houses you go into. Get rid of them. Nobody needs that kind of negativity in their life.


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## LK_Nature_Photography (Oct 8, 2018)

I wish you luck in any kind of selling, business, or cooperation with someone... Wildlife photography is special, you have to love it to do it, and the animals and nature too... it´s just a wonderful thing to do and to show others the beauty of wildlife. I hang my own wildlife pictures on my wall as a decoration, for me, it is not just a picture of an animal, it is a memory of "that" harsh environment, or "that" cold winter...


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## davholla (Oct 12, 2018)

zombiesniper said:


> Home - Trevor Baldwin-Portrait and pet photographer


In the UK people charge quite a lot for pet photography, no idea how good a source of income it is.

Good luck.


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## zombiesniper (Oct 12, 2018)

Pet photography can do very well.


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## davholla (Oct 12, 2018)

zombiesniper said:


> Pet photography can do very well.


Thanks for that, I know someone who might do it (not a rival to you as it will be in the UK).


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## zombiesniper (Oct 12, 2018)

Rivalry is good.

Tell your friend "Good luck!"


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## CherylL (Oct 14, 2018)

Best of luck to you!  Great idea on the conversation starter.


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## zombiesniper (Oct 14, 2018)

Thank you.


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## zombiesniper (Jan 4, 2019)

So I guess it's time for an update.

Total of 16 days broken over 8 weekends and how did I do?
Good and bad depending on how we look at it.

I kept and average engagement rate of about 8%
Of this 8% I could turn 1/10 into a sale resulting in a sale rate of 0.8%. Initially this seems low but that is about 1000% higher than any advertising could hope to do. This does mostly come down to P2P sales and the client being able to see the product in person. 

The direct sales did  about as well as I had anticipated. I did however do better on potential bookings for pet and portrait photography plus a few other jobs such as car/boat photos and a few product images for a local artist.
Because of this I can say that the sales of wildlife photography will never fly in a general market such as this. A more art focused market would surely provide a better clientele base.

I was told by many that I should have set up a small studio to shoot in. An acquaintance of mine had a booth and started doing exactly that. He had 2 clients the entire two months. Both pet photo's (Pets are not allowed in the building or he probably would have been swamped.) Most of the people would say things like "Not with my hair like this." or "I'd have to change then come back." which they never did.

Cost of the booth plus stock = $2000
Total revenue at the booth = $600
Bookings still to be totalled.

So it looks like we'll have to wait and see how many booking turn into paid shoots before I can give an overall assessment.


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## tirediron (Jan 4, 2019)

Seems a pretty decent result overall!


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## zombiesniper (Jan 4, 2019)

I think so as well. 

The number of people that now have my card in there possession is about 100x what it was before


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## Dave442 (Jan 4, 2019)

Great to see you were able to generate some leads, I think this is more important than selling from the booth. While the big camera/lens was a good conversation starter, I think another idea would be a large print. As you noted, most foot traffic passed along but did not come in the booth - a mural size print of a couple of your great shots would be another conversation starter. At the rates you have it would be good to do it again next year.


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## mrca (Jan 7, 2019)

You indicate that many of your cards are out there.  I prefer to be pro active rather than re active waiting for them to call.  Perhaps the next time have one large framed print, not an expensive frame job(I do my own printing, matting and framing) as a drawing and to sign up, they need to leave their names and contact information in case they win.  Now, rather than your card ending up in the round file, you have a number of people to follow up with by phone.   Generate one customer and it should pay for the give away.


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## zombiesniper (Jan 7, 2019)

Good idea.

I had large prints on display as well.

I make take peoples info if it was a targeted artist market. At this market you'd be hard pressed to get anyone willing to put down their personal information. There are just too many "shady" booths allowed to operate.
I have been watching and logging the new people that have liked my facebook page since.


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## mrca (Jan 7, 2019)

Great job tracking your success rate.   Marketing and not being able to determine how well it is working can lead to expensive and long term non productive efforts.   You are moving in the right direction.  Now find another way to get your work out there.    Perhaps, offer to restaurants for display for sale or nature stores.  Might try picking your best shot, printing it as a 13x19 or 17x22 matting and framing it for the drawing.   Folks like free and are often willing to enter drawings for something that good.  Make sure you have signed the print and have some  contact identification on the back of the framing.  At worst, it gets your best work out there.   Now if someone like a business that might buy more of your work for their walls wins, all the better.


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## mrca (Jan 7, 2019)

Also, do you "look" like a wild life photographer when you are in your booth?  Last year, partially as a political statement, I finally purchased something I always liked.  If you are old enough to remember war correspondents in the 60's and 70's and what was worn on african safari's,  the safari jacket with epaulets(capable of preventing camera straps from slipping off) a waist belt and large hip pockets as well as patch pockets with buttons.   The hip pockets function as do the side pockets on my vest,  left pocket for light trigger, right for meter and lens caps.  Chest pockets for filters or color checker passport.   I think wearing one would give you that "great white photo hunter" look.   Mine has my website across the upper back and my logo and biz name over the left pocket.  I'll bet it would separate you from other guys with wild life photos.  Mine is manufactured in Africa, it's the real deal and is functional and a walking billboard at the same time.


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## zombiesniper (Jan 8, 2019)

I won't play dress up. 
The military made me do that for over 20 yrs. Never again. I wear what is practical for the situation. At the market I wore golf shirts and jeans.
If people expect me to look like Jack Hanna then they're to narrow minded to really appreciate art. 
I don't ask painters to cut off an ear.


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## mrca (Jan 9, 2019)

Zombie, you must find what works for you.   Keep in mind all the incompetent photographers actually getting paid for their mediocre to down right crappy work.   They are being selected not only on the quality of their work, but also on their image or personality.   A photographer is not only selling paper or his images, he is selling himself.  But it has to be genuine.  Keep up the creative marketing.   Try at least one new approach a month and continue your great tracking of results.   As a fly fisherman we say, keep putting the fly in the water, ie keep putting those quarters in the slot machine.   Eventually there will be a payoff.


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## zombiesniper (Jan 9, 2019)

Thank you.

Just had a call from an artist today. We had talked at the market about shooting some of her painting so she could have them put onto T-shirts, mugs etc.
She's coming up this weekend with 4-6 paintings for me to work with. If all goes well, she could be a recurring customer.


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## mrca (Jan 9, 2019)

Great job, keep putting those quarters in the slot machine.   Every person you meet is a potential customer.    A bit different than wildlife.   As you start to find the niches that are yours, start thinking about your branding.  Who are your ideal customers?   Where do they hang out, what are their interests?   Be sure to price so you are making a profit.   A good rule of thumb is 3 times the cost of goods plus your time  required x hourly rate  for a home business.    Knockem dead.


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