# I think I'm ready to try and make a little side money...



## dakkon76 (Sep 4, 2011)

So I've been at this for a few years and have kind of found my unexpected niche is photographing people - and here, I thought it would be nature.

Anyway, I've done a few shoots for a local magazine here and now I'm wanting to branch out and try and make a little money. My ultimate goal is action - sports like wakeboarding, climbing, fishing, etc. Also would like to try and get into kids sports - baseball and football mainly; little league type stuff.

I'm wondering how to start out with the gear I've got. I'd love to go out and get a 7d and a 70-200 f/2.8, but I know the wife would lose it if I did that without being able to justify it. I have a blast when I'm shooting action, and my current setup, which includes a fast 50mm and 85mm, may be enough to get some decent shots of moms in the park w/ their kids, fly fishermen, and probably even some wakeboarding shots from inside the boat.

My concerns:
1 - I don't have a home studio for portraits, nor do I want to have to set one up. If I end up doing portraiture I'd prefer it to be outside... yes, winter is coming 
2 - How to approach the sports issue - I may be able to get some decent shots at a game with the gear I have, but how do I find a client for it? I can't very well approach the coach yet, since I can't sign on to do everything because of my limited gear.

So, I'm looking for some thoughts on how to start out. My day job requires me to interact with people on a pretty personal level (ICU nurse), so hitting people up shouldn't be a problem. I just need to have some sort of a plan. I've got plenty of friends I can hit up for pics of their kids to build a more diverse portfolio for an Internet presence.

Ideas? Suggestions? How did you all start out?


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## tirediron (Sep 5, 2011)

The first thing that you need, IMO, if you're going to try and make money at this whole photography thing is the right kit.  You need two bodies, you need fast glass from UWA to medium tele, you need lighting equipment and filters, software...  $20,000 is a nice round, 'get-started' sort of figure.  "I may be able to get some decent shots with the gear I've got" speaks volumes.  Most commercial clients don't pay for "decent" shots.

Right now, the main flavour of portraiture is out-of-doors; I'm not sure if that's a short-lived fad, or the way it's going to be for a long time.  Regardless, you still need lighting equipment, in fact for out-of-door shooting even more so.

For your stated purpose, you're also going to need the really expensive gear; the super tele primes and zooms, things like the 200-400 f4, 400mm f2.8 and 600mm f4 (that weighs in just under $30K).  

Now there's the whole business side of things... have you registered a business name, do you have a license and insurance?  Are you set up to collect and pay tax?  Do you know what the finanical reporting laws are in your state?

So... a whole bunch of negativity right?  Yes and no.  My suggestion would be this:  Don't quit your day job, and spend all your waking moments at sporting events practicing with the gear you've got.  When you get a good shot, approach the coach, players, etc, and find out if they're interested.  Offer them (for a fee) to the local paper...  Start small, and slowly build up your gear as you find out what works for you.

Good luck!


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## dakkon76 (Sep 5, 2011)

Thanks for the reply. I know that having all of those primes is a great thing, but part of why I wanted to start with little league is that I was hoping I wouldn't need the reach of the > 200mm primes. I know I need a new body, even on the last fly fishing shoot I did I was having trouble with autofocus and getting just 5 shots in my buffer before the camera chugs isn't going to cut it. Day job isn't an issue, I'm planning on going back to school for my doctorate so this would never replace my career. As far as the business end, my wife operates her own business and whatever I end up making would be legit.

I guess my main concern is showing up to a game where nobody I know has kids playing. Can I take pics? I assume if I want to use them for anything, I'm going to need written consent from the parents? Same for heading up to the river and getting some fly fishermen in action right? Just wasn't sure if things were more tricky if kids (minors) were involved.


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## tirediron (Sep 5, 2011)

Privacy laws vary by country, state and region, but my understanding is that if they're playing on a public, or publicly accessible field, as long as the property owners or their representative don't tell you to stop, you're fine.  That said, some people get very concerned when people they don't know are photographing their children.  I can't say for certain how your laws work, in Canada there are no issues relating to age, WA may be different.  Check with someone who KNOWS for sure.  What I would do is approach the coach/parents and ask if you can shoot.  Offer to provide some pictures for the team's website or something like that.  Once you are accepted, than you can consider doing things like team photos, etc.  if you do get a good shot and flog it to a 'paper, that would be editorial use, and you should be fine as far as releases go, but it never hurts to ask first.


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## orljustin (Sep 5, 2011)

dakkon76 said:


> I guess my main concern is showing up to a game where nobody I know has kids playing. Can I take pics? I assume if I want to use them for anything, I'm going to need written consent from the parents? Same for heading up to the river and getting some fly fishermen in action right? Just wasn't sure if things were more tricky if kids (minors) were involved.



Do you really want to hang out all day snapping pictures of random people you don't know, on the off chance they'd buy an print from an unknown guy standing on the sidelines or the side of the river?


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## 2WheelPhoto (Sep 5, 2011)

orljustin said:


> dakkon76 said:
> 
> 
> > I guess my main concern is showing up to a game where nobody I know has kids playing. Can I take pics? I assume if I want to use them for anything, I'm going to need written consent from the parents? Same for heading up to the river and getting some fly fishermen in action right? Just wasn't sure if things were more tricky if kids (minors) were involved.
> ...




^^^^that


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## dakkon76 (Sep 5, 2011)

Nope, I never expected that. But I'll need quite a bit of practice shooting the sport I'm going to try and market myself in. A few hours shooting a game at a park while the wife and kids hung out having a picnic wouldn't be too bad. I wouldn't plan on approaching anyone saying "Hey, I just took a great pic of your kid... wanna buy it?" Creepy! Going through the coach and having the parents aware that photos will be available is the only way I'd consider trying to sell anything... but like I said, I need some skills first.


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## CCericola (Sep 5, 2011)

Have you looked into getting a weekend job with the photography company that photographs the little league? It would help you learn the biz and photography side of things.


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## sierramister (Sep 5, 2011)

It seems like anyone who wants to start a business on here gets the "you need a million dollars and your kidney" speech.  I have 2 D7000 bodies ($2500), 50mm f/1.8 ($150), Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 ($650 used), Sigma 24-70 f/2.8 ($450), 3 SB-600's ($600), $200 in memory cards, $100 in extra batteries, $100 bag, $200 in light stands and umbrellas and reflectors, and I added a rider to my homeowners insurance.  $5000 invested over 2 years and I've more than returned my investment.  Sure I don't own a D3s and I accept that my Sigma 70-200 isn't the same as the Nikon VRII 70-200, but people keep coming back so I must be doing something right.  It's all about making connections, talking to people, and marketing yourself.


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## dakkon76 (Sep 5, 2011)

That's encouraging! Also a good idea to try and do some part time stuff for another company, Christina. My schedule is kind of hard to work with, since I have to work every other weekend but maybe they'll be flexible since I won't care if I work for peanuts 

I don't mind having to get out there and market myself, and I know that doing some free gigs for charities is a great way to get seen and respected - with the way the economy is, I doubt there are lots of pro's who are willing to do something for free right now; can't blame them. The other bonus is that my wife is an artist/art director and I used to be a Web developer in another life... so the Web site and marketting wouldn't be a problem.

How do I go about finding out about local state laws regarding taking pics at games? I'd shoot in 2 states, Idaho and Washington. My plan is to have galleries online for the teams and password protect them on a team by team basis so that parents aren't too upset about having their kids pics online.


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## orljustin (Sep 6, 2011)

As asked, why not go work for one of the places that already do this?   Once you've gotten all the knowledge you need, you can leave and compete with them.


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## ghache (Sep 6, 2011)

LOL, some of you guys are ****ed. i make money with my photography and i dont own 20 000$ of equipement. sooo much bull**** 

tirediron, he wants to shoot kids sports in minor leagues, WHO THE **** NEEDS A 600MM F2.6 TO DO THAT? he wont be shooting the CFL or the olympics!?! wtf :thumbdown:


You can shoot alot of portrait with a 50 and a 85mm. 
for minor league sports where the fields are not that long , i would get a 70-200 2.8 and maybe a teleconverter., the sigma hsmII is a pretty good lens for the money.

For the studio space you might need, depending on the area you live in, there is probably some studio you can rent, or share montly fees with other photographer.

With another 2000-2500$ of investment (zoom lens, a good strap, maybe another body, flashes), you should be well equiped to shoot portraits and occational
 look for used stuff there is always someone getting rid of nice stuff for cheap.

or you can re-finance your home and get 40k of equipement :lmao:


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## tirediron (Sep 6, 2011)

ghache said:


> LOL, some of you guys are ****ed. i make money with my photography and i dont own 20 000$ of equipement. sooo much bull****


Well, I guess that makes you so much better than the rest of us, doesn't it?



ghache said:


> tirediron, he wants to shoot kids sports in minor leagues, WHO THE **** NEEDS A 600MM F2.6 TO DO THAT? he wont be shooting the CFL or the olympics!?! wtf


Did you even bother to read the OP?  What he said was, " My ultimate goal is action - sports like wakeboarding, climbing, fishing, etc. Also would like to try and get into kids sports - baseball and football mainly; little league type stuff. " Now, I don't claim to be any smarter than the average bear, but the way I read that is that he wants to shoot action sports and would *also* like to shoot children's sports.  Have you ever shot water-sports from the beach?  Good luck getting something print-worthy with a 200mm lens.



ghache said:


> You can shoot alot of portrait with a 50 and a 85mm.


Agreed



ghache said:


> for minor league sports where the fields are not that long , i would get a 70-200 2.8 and maybe a teleconverter...


 

And, lastly, I would appreciate it if you would read my entire response.  You clearly didn't bother to read the last paragraph which states, "_Don't quit your day job, and spend all your waking moments at sporting events practicing with the gear you've got. When you get a good shot, approach the coach, players, etc, and find out if they're interested. Offer them (for a fee) to the local paper... Start small, and slowly build up your gear as you find out what works for you._"  I will explain this for you:  My actual advice to the OP was:  *To take the gear he has now, and practice with it, and as he gains skill and experience and finds the direction(s) he wants to go with his photography, build his kit accordingly.*


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## spacefuzz (Sep 6, 2011)

If you want to do climbing photography, do you yourself climb?  I find that the best photos are from up on the rock with the climbers and not from the ground.  Similar with other outdoor activities, the more extreme you get the less competition you will have.  Of course your then in a more niche market but thats a seperate issue.  Want to jump out of helicoptors with back country skiers to get amazing shots?  I dont see many people with the skills to do that.  Want to take climbing / backpacking pictures in remote locations (aka beautiful), not many people have the fortitude to carry in pro gear in addition to everything else they need. You would have less photos but you could get a higher margin for them.  (and to me, that would be more fun than standing by the river and shooting a little league game). 

But thats my 2 cents, just how I would approach it.


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## KmH (Sep 6, 2011)

sierramister said:


> It seems like anyone who wants to start a business on here gets the "you need a million dollars and your kidney" speech.  I have 2 D7000 bodies ($2500), 50mm f/1.8 ($150), Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 ($650 used), Sigma 24-70 f/2.8 ($450), 3 SB-600's ($600), $200 in memory cards, $100 in extra batteries, $100 bag, $200 in light stands and umbrellas and reflectors, and I added a rider to my homeowners insurance.  $5000 invested over 2 years and I've more than returned my investment.  Sure I don't own a D3s and I accept that my Sigma 70-200 isn't the same as the Nikon VRII 70-200, but people keep coming back so I must be doing something right.  It's all about making connections, talking to people, and marketing yourself.


Does your insurance agent know you are using the camera gear in a business? Many have to get an Inland Marine policy separate from their homeowners insurance.

What kind of business liability insurance do you have? Or is that covered by your home owners policy/

Do you transport customers in your car? Do you collect and forward Tennesse state sales taxes? Have you paid applicable Tennessee use taxes on your camera gear and other purchases that require paying use tax?


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## ghache (Sep 6, 2011)

KmH said:


> sierramister said:
> 
> 
> > It seems like anyone who wants to start a business on here gets the "you need a million dollars and your kidney" speech. I have 2 D7000 bodies ($2500), 50mm f/1.8 ($150), Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 ($650 used), Sigma 24-70 f/2.8 ($450), 3 SB-600's ($600), $200 in memory cards, $100 in extra batteries, $100 bag, $200 in light stands and umbrellas and reflectors, and I added a rider to my homeowners insurance. $5000 invested over 2 years and I've more than returned my investment. Sure I don't own a D3s and I accept that my Sigma 70-200 isn't the same as the Nikon VRII 70-200, but people keep coming back so I must be doing something right. It's all about making connections, talking to people, and marketing yourself.
> ...



Not necessary.:lmao:


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## sierramister (Sep 6, 2011)

KmH said:


> sierramister said:
> 
> 
> > It seems like anyone who wants to start a business on here gets the "you need a million dollars and your kidney" speech.  I have 2 D7000 bodies ($2500), 50mm f/1.8 ($150), Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 ($650 used), Sigma 24-70 f/2.8 ($450), 3 SB-600's ($600), $200 in memory cards, $100 in extra batteries, $100 bag, $200 in light stands and umbrellas and reflectors, and I added a rider to my homeowners insurance.  $5000 invested over 2 years and I've more than returned my investment.  Sure I don't own a D3s and I accept that my Sigma 70-200 isn't the same as the Nikon VRII 70-200, but people keep coming back so I must be doing something right.  It's all about making connections, talking to people, and marketing yourself.
> ...



I know what you're trying to do, but I'll pander to it anyway...

Homeowners policy has a small, small business liability rider, and they cover my camera equipment.  It ties in because I have a home office that I had to file zoning for.  It was inexpensive for the policy.  

I do not transport people in my car.  I pay business tax and use tax.  And Tennessee has a minimum on sales tax collections before you need to collect.  You can sell $4800 worth of goods and services per year before you have to collect and forward sales tax (although it is illegal to collect and not forward).  You still must pay business tax to city, county, and state.  I made under $4800 last calendar year and I'm going to be pretty close this year.


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## KmH (Sep 6, 2011)

Good for you! :thumbup:  
You've done your homework. It varies by state. Many that have a retail 'photography business' have no clue.


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## spacefuzz (Sep 6, 2011)

KmH said:


> Good for you! :thumbup:
> You've done your homework. It varies by state. Many that have a retail 'photography business' have no clue.



Im doing this for California right now....its making my eyes glaze over.


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## bennielou (Sep 6, 2011)

Hey Dakkon,
I've seen some of your shots in the past, and while I don't remember exactly what the shots were, I remembered I thought you were an up and comer.
As for shooting your style, have you ever thought about approaching a local newspaper, or a photojournalism agency?  PJ doesn't pay jack squat, but for a special group of photogs I know, that is their life's blood.
Give the local paper a shout and see if they need shots of anything that is coming up.


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## bennielou (Sep 6, 2011)

sierramister said:


> It seems like anyone who wants to start a business on here gets the "you need a million dollars and your kidney" speech.  I have 2 D7000 bodies ($2500), 50mm f/1.8 ($150), Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 ($650 used), Sigma 24-70 f/2.8 ($450), 3 SB-600's ($600), $200 in memory cards, $100 in extra batteries, $100 bag, $200 in light stands and umbrellas and reflectors, and I added a rider to my homeowners insurance.  $5000 invested over 2 years and I've more than returned my investment.  Sure I don't own a D3s and I accept that my Sigma 70-200 isn't the same as the Nikon VRII 70-200, but people keep coming back so I must be doing something right.  It's all about making connections, talking to people, and marketing yourself.



LOL, I almost peed myself.

But just so you understand, there is a AHUUUUGE difference with someone talking about shooting a bat mitzvah with a cell phone (you see more of that around here that you would think), and someone who has the proper stuff (even if it's used).


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## 2WheelPhoto (Sep 6, 2011)

Every DSLR in bestbuy is a cash cow for side money.............


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## imagemaker46 (Sep 6, 2011)

Trying to shoot the local amateur sports is a place to start, however the leagues will have to get signed photo releases from every parent that has a kid playing, and for most leagues this is a pain for them, I've been dealing with these leagues for over 2 years now.  Some of the leagues have signed contracts with local photo groups that do the pictures for the leagues and they aren't too friendly when someone new comes around, lots of these photo groups are doing the same thing you are trying to do.  It's tough breaking into these areas and then finding out that there is very little money in it.

good luck.


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## c.cloudwalker (Sep 6, 2011)

*I think I'm ready* usually means you are not.

If you are ready you know it and you don't need to talk about it here where the vast majority of members don't know if they are ready.


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## dakkon76 (Sep 6, 2011)

Thanks to those who offered some good constructive advice. I'm not sure why some people even choose to be part of an online community if they can't recognize that they're looking for the same things that everyone else on the community is... a vanity problem perhaps. (speaking of locking threads when they go off topic... this sure seems like a great time).


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## imagemaker46 (Sep 6, 2011)

Forum threads do get hijacked when people have nothing else to say, but feel they have to keep adding comments, I hope you managed to take some positive from this one.


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## orljustin (Sep 6, 2011)

imagemaker46 said:


> Trying to shoot the local amateur sports is a place to start, however the leagues will have to get signed photo releases from every parent that has a kid playing, and for most leagues this is a pain for them, I've been dealing with these leagues for over 2 years now.



I'm all for pointing out how ridiculous some plans are, but "signed photo releases from every parent" is just funny.


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## KmH (Sep 6, 2011)

imagemaker46 said:


> .....however the leagues will have to get signed photo releases from every parent that has a kid playing......


Oh?

Are those leagues in the US? Because the OP isn't in Canada.


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