# why is my photographer friend mad at me?



## sunnydays2018 (Nov 22, 2018)

So, i have this friend who has been doing photos for me for years and now is currently angry at me after hiring another photography to do some photos for me. 

He says he is beyond sick of doing bad photographs that he is embarrassed to have his name attached to, but i don't understand this because I love all the photos he does. He says he rarely gets to shoot in decent lighting with the correct outfits for portraits but i want normal photos. He says all he wants are solid color outfits that complement each other and decent lighting but i dont understand why that matters. 

He says he is sick of shooting in bad locations and bad lighting with bad outfits and is mad that i hired another photographer where i shot in what he says in good lighting and good outfits after not wanting do that for him. 

He says there is a difference between professional portraits and amateur snapshots but i dont understand why that matters, I want just him to press the button on his good camera? 

Does lighting and time of day really make that much of a difference? Sometimes all i need for him to do is press the button on his good camera and he seemed annoyed. Cant he just photoshop the lighting? Id like to pay him but we cant afford to pay him a lot of money like what other photographers would charge. All he wants is decent lighting and correct outfits that he says are distracting to the composition. I dont care about lighting or composition, I just need to be a fly on the wall and press the button on his camera. Why would that make him angry?

Can someone explain why he would be considered some of these photos bad? 

Here are two pictures he loves and then there are two pictures he is embarrassed to have his name attached to, can someone explain to me why he would consider the last two pictures as bad photography? I think they look great?!   

if someone can explain why the last two pictures would be considered bad photography in a langauge i would understand i would appreciate it. 

Imgur: The magic of the Internet


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## Jeff15 (Nov 22, 2018)

Hello and welcome.....


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## Designer (Nov 22, 2018)

sunnydays2018 said:


> So, i have this friend who has been doing photos for me for years and now is currently angry at me after hiring another photography to do some photos for me.
> 
> He says he is beyond sick of doing bad photographs that he is embarrassed to have his name attached to, but i don't understand this because I love all the photos he does. He says he rarely gets to shoot in decent lighting with the correct outfits for portraits but i want normal photos. He says all he wants are solid color outfits that complement each other and decent lighting but i dont understand why that matters.
> 
> ...


Hi, and welcome!

Your friend strives to produce better work, and according to what you have said, you are not cooperating.

Frankly, there is more to good photography than merely pressing the button.  A LOT more.  Your friend probably knows what is needed, and he is apparently willing to try to excel, but he does need the minimum amount of cooperation from you. 

As to the last two photos, I (and probably most on here) will call them "snapshots", and that is a pejorative term around here.  They are the kind of shot that anybody can make simply by raising the camera and pressing the button.  If you are completely satisfied with those photos, then just keep on doing what you're doing, but don't expect your photographer friend to support you in that mode.

It's just as well you are severing your relationship with the real photographer, as you two will not be a viable team.


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## sunnydays2018 (Nov 22, 2018)

Designer said:


> As to the last two photos



so he is right for saying those are shitty photographs and feeling embarrassed to have his name attached to them?


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## Designer (Nov 22, 2018)

sunnydays2018 said:


> Designer said:
> 
> 
> > As to the last two photos
> ...


I don't know him, so I hate to say he is right to express anger, but for me, I simply would not want to take your photo anymore. 

I was once deeply offended when someone close to me asks me to take some "snaps".  I put my camera away.


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## Designer (Nov 22, 2018)

Incidentally; it is far more than having a "nice camera".  That's like complimenting a chef that his stove cooks nice food.


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## Destin (Nov 22, 2018)

You need to respect that photography is an art form. It’s more than just pushing the button on a nice camera. 

Would you tell a professional chef that you just want them to throw a frozen dinner on their nice professional stovetop? Or would you allow them to use their expertise to make the food taste better than you’re able to?


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## sunnydays2018 (Nov 22, 2018)

Destin said:


> Or would you allow them to use their expertise to make the food taste better than you’re able to?



So asking him to help me pick out a good camera so i can get good photos is like asking a chef to help me pick out a good oven so i can get good tasting food?


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## smoke665 (Nov 22, 2018)

I  may be reading more between the lines then there is, but by "doing photos for me" are you saying theses were done for free? I ask because I had a similar case where I did some shots for a friend which turned out well. No mention was made of payment by either party, nor did I expect compensation. However a month or so later this same friend hired an incompetent photographer to shoot a session, then sought compliments from me on the photos.


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## sunnydays2018 (Nov 22, 2018)

smoke665 said:


> are you saying theses were done for free?



yea, he said he would do them for free as long as i gave him the things he needed "proper outfits for portraits and good lighting" so the photos could be used in his portfolio


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## sunnydays2018 (Nov 22, 2018)

he says most of the stuff we have done he cant use in his portfolio


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## Designer (Nov 22, 2018)

sunnydays2018 said:


> So asking him to help me pick out a good camera so i can get good photos is like asking a chef to help me pick out a good oven so i can get good tasting food?


That's pretty much it.  

Without knowing your friend or how long he has studied the craft of photography, Most of us on here take it pretty seriously.  We study by reading, getting feedback, lots of practice, and of course, looking at other photographers' work.  As for me, I've been fiddling with cameras and associated other activities for about 60 years, and I'm still learning.  I've done film, developing, printing, submitted for critique, moved on to digital, am learning digital editing, lighting, portraiture, and still I'm just an amateur.

If you want to try to mend your relationship with your photographer friend, (and really do) then I think you could put forth a bit of effort in trying to understand his position, and offer to give it another shot.  If he is willing, then maybe you could donate an afternoon of your time and see what he can do.  

When you begin look at photographs with a critical eye, you will see a whole new genre of art that you may have missed before.  Compare a really good portrait with a snapshot.  You should be able to see a noticeable difference.


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## Dean_Gretsch (Nov 22, 2018)

Why do I get the feeling this is all a big joke?


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## smoke665 (Nov 22, 2018)

sunnydays2018 said:


> yea, he said he would do them for free as long as i gave him the things he needed "proper outfits for portraits and good lighting" so the photos could be used in his portfolio



So despite the fact that he was doing something for you for free you couldn't cooperate with his requests. Then you pay someone to get what your friend was trying to do for free. SMH!


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## sunnydays2018 (Nov 22, 2018)

smoke665 said:


> So despite the fact that he was doing something for you for free you couldn't cooperate with his requests. Then you pay someone to get what your friend was trying to do for free. SMH!



he says he feels used having to do amateur photos when i go hire someone because he didnt want to shoot at one of the most photographed locations in all of houston anymore especially in bad lighting. he doesnt like having to shoot the same location over and over let alone in bad lighting he says.


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## sunnydays2018 (Nov 22, 2018)

Dean_Gretsch said:


> Why do I get the feeling this is all a big joke?



Should I feel bad for asking to him to babysit when someone else offered me a free photoshoot when he wanted to do it for me for free?


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## vagabondkidd (Nov 22, 2018)

I'm actually confused with his argument.


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## Derrel (Nov 22, 2018)

sunnydays2018 said:


> Designer said:
> 
> 
> > As to the last two photos
> ...



They are not "that bad"...I have seen worse, and I have seen better...I think the maternity shot has poor composition, but the family group shot has a fun feeling about it. Not a "great shot", yet still...it has nine people in it, and feels authentic.

If the photographer who took the images does not like the work, well, he might have 1) become a better shooter or 2) has developed a more-critical eye toward his earlier work or 3)decided he needs a different portfolio representation or 4)he's just now beginning to transition into higher-level posing or higher-level work.

it is very common for people just starting out in shooting for other people to shoot stuff that, a few years later, no longer suits their newly-developed opinions or their newly-developed skill level; such is the way it goes. I look back on some of my earlier pictures and think, "Wow...that's nowhere near what I want to see from myself these days!"


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## sunnydays2018 (Nov 22, 2018)

Derrel said:


> If the photographer who took the images does not like the work, well, he might have 1) become a better shooter or 2) has developed a more-critical eye toward his earlier work or 3)decided he needs a different portfolio representation or 4)he's just now beginning to transition into higher-level posing or higher-level work.



the first two pictures in that album are years old, the last two pictures (maternity and family picture) are the most recent ones


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## Derrel (Nov 22, 2018)

The first two shots are mother-and-baby, studio-lighted, studio-posed, "setup shots". *The one-armed baby in the soup kettle* is okay...the second studio-lighted mother and baby on dark backdrop is less-compelling; the maternity shot is poor, with an awful background structure, which HE included in the photo that HE shot...it's not very good,and I would never include such a badly-composed shot in a portraiture portfolio; in my opunion, it looks very snap-shotish, and not in a good way whatsoever.

The last of the two pictures, the candid, family group shot...authentic feeling, but has some eye direction issues, yet still, pleasant enough.

With a big family, simple, matching outfits, or simple, color-coordinating outfits makes for a much more-compelling portfolio shot. At least that is the trend of the past 40 years...too matchey-matchey on the clothes looks contrived, but say, red shirts or red sweaters and blue jeans,on everybody...that's what many people want to see in a portfolio.

Also... your photographer seems like a bit of a whiney-ass...He seems to be using you for portfolio development, at some level...if I were you, I would dump him.


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## jcdeboever (Nov 23, 2018)

I blame all my bad shots on the light, cloth selection, location, my rate or lack of pay. If y'all would just co-operate, I could be a great photographer.  I have a great camera... 

Seriously though, sure those things help but if I were building a career at it, I would find a way to manage my portfolio. If I truly want to give friends a break, I would strip my name from the EXIF data because I want to help my friends out. 

I help friends out all the time and don't except payment but barter for future controlled shoots for my practice of improving. I am clear in my communication and genuine in my helping them. I think if I was a professional, I would do the same. My late mentor told me if I genuinely want to help people out, try to set it up so you can become a better photographer. His idea of bartering future controlled shoots made a lot of sense to me, use that time to explore and improve. Win-win. He was a pro and always made time to help people and used it as an opportunity to improve his craft. He also said, a good photographer can adapt to any situation, and that was a key component at being a cutt above photographer.


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## Designer (Nov 23, 2018)

sunnydays2018 said:


> .. because he didnt want to shoot at one of the most photographed locations in all of houston anymore especially in bad lighting. he doesnt like having to shoot the same location over and over let alone in bad lighting he says.


Now that is starting to make him sound like a spoiled snowflake.  

I agree about the poor lighting, but not about the over-used venue.  I think he is being unreasonably picky on that one.


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## ac12 (Nov 23, 2018)

Lighting makes a HUGE difference.
Bad lighting makes the photographer work harder to get the best out of the lighting.  But there are limits to what can be done.​"Cant he just photoshop the lighting?"  
Absolutely NOT.  That is what the average person has been brought to believe.  You can only do so much in Photoshop, and if you have to do the editing to ALL the pictures, it would be a LOT of time and work.  Are you paying him for his time (and his cost of equipment and photoshop)?​"all i need for him to do is press the button on his good camera and he seemed annoyed."
This tells me that you don't really understand and appreciate the work that a photographer does.​"Id like to pay him but we cant afford to pay him a lot of money"
So are you paying him anything?  
Camera gear is not cheap, Photoshop is not free/cheap, how much time is he spending on your project.​If the only payment is his being able to use you pictures in his portfolio, I can see where he is more critical.​"All he wants is decent lighting and correct outfits that he says are distracting to the composition. I dont care about lighting or composition, I just need to be a fly on the wall and press the button on his camera. Why would that make him angry?"
You two are really not seeing eye to eye.
You are not understanding or appreciating the effort and work that a photographer does.​*If you don't care about lighting and composition, and just want to press the button; why don't you just buy a camera, and shoot for yourself?*


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