# Nikon D7100 or D610 for Indoor Sports Photography with no flash?



## Trojan1994 (Mar 3, 2014)

Hi,  this is my first post, to provide background, I am a novice photographer with a D5000 Camera that has historically been used as a point and shoot camera in the Auto Mode or occasionally other modes.  Now that my daughter is playing Club Volleyball, it has forced me to upgrade lenses and experiment with settings to try and capture the action as blur free as possible in a wide range of less than desirable lighting conditions without the use of my speedlight.  Typically the events are in large convention centers or high school/college gyms where lighting is typically fluorescent, ranging from dimly lit to moderately lit with sometimes large glass windows providing natural light in the background of the players.

Lens wise I have been using:

Tamron 17-50 F2.8
Tamron SP AF 70-200 F2.8 Di VC USD
Nikon 50mm F1.8D
Nikon 85mm F1.8D
Nikon 50mm 1.4G

Depending on the location, lens and settings used I honestly get maybe 20 pics out of 1,000 that are truly "keepers" in terms of being bright, focused, sharp(only blur being the ball/Not being able to read the lettering sometimes).  The non keepers are out of focus, a mixed variety of light, then dark, then light type of pattern when using the continuous shooting/burst mode or just grainy.  Also, fair skinned players sometimes take on a ghostly almost glowing skin appearance.

Best "action" photos, i.e. where kids are truly moving/elevating/hitting/digging is done with the 50mm and 85mm lenses, manually focused to an "area" where I wait for a subject to enter it, ISO 200, White Balance set to Flourescent, F2.2, Shutter Speed 1/320, Picture Quality is JPEG Fine.  With these settings, my raw keeper photos are better than those that one of the other dad's, who's been shooting pics a while, using a Canon T3i, 50mm 1.4 lens, RAW Setting and processing them through Lightroom.

I've decided that I want to upgrade bodies and let my daughter use the 5000 to take some basic photography (which I will likely take with her) as she wants to learn and I would like to hopefully take better pictures and have a much higher percentage of keepers.

Depending on the shop and/or sales person, when asking if I should go 7100 or 610, I get mixed feedback, though slightly more will say the 7100 is all I need.  Initially, to my novice self, it appears that the 7100 is the right choice until I read online about how the 610's Full Frame Sensor will perform better in low light than the 7100's despite the same megapixel count.

Can you shed some light on:

1)  Is the 610's Capability in low light going to be significant/noticable over the 7100's when shooting in a basketball gym?

2) Is the 7100 or 610 the right choice for me to shoot indoor volleyball? 

3) Is there another body, Nikon or other, that I should be considering saving up for?

Regards,

Tony


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## robbins.photo (Mar 3, 2014)

Well the D7100 shoots a little faster and would give you the crop factor, it also has a little bit better autofocus system.  The D610 would give you better low light however one thing to take a look at is your lenses, I'd take a look at some of the lens testing for the Tamron 70-200 mm in particular and see how well it performs on a full frame.  I know that my Sigma 70-200 2.8 does great on a crop sensor but when you move up to full frame you get much softer corners and vignetting is much more noticeable.  So while it's a great piece of glass for a DX if I were ever to consider going to FX I'd probably look at upgrading that lens first. 

The difference between the D7100 and D610 in lowlight as I recall is a little over a full F-Stop, so it is pretty significant.  Just curious, what body are you using now and how well does it perform in the lighting conditions in the gym?


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## Tailgunner (Mar 3, 2014)

I shot half our son's basketball season using a D7100 and the other half a D800..both using a Nikon 70-200mm VRII. Now I got the D800 more for landscape/cityscape photography but it did a really decent job shooting our son's games. Anyhow, I had to bump the ISO up around 10,000 in order to maintain a 1/500-600 shutter speed. I ended up with noise with either camera body but the D800 seemed to do better at ISO 10,000 than the D7100 did at ISO 6,400. I really liked my D7100, but I think you would be happier with the D610 for your situation.


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## Trojan1994 (Mar 3, 2014)

Mixed results as stated in original post.  Best results with the 1.8D lenses, manually focused to a spot on the court and waiting for (s) to get there.  Issues are lots of out of focus shots when using lenses with Auto Focus, grainyness despite ISO at 200, dark then light photos when shooting in continuous mode.  Maybe 20 or so real keepers shots, in terms of clarity & brightness out of say 1,000 shots.

Regards,

Tony


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## Trojan1994 (Mar 3, 2014)

Thanks Tailgunner, wow, ISO around 10,000?!?!  I can't stand the way my pics look when I have them at 800 with my body, maybe I'm doing something wrong.

Regards,

Tony


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## Tailgunner (Mar 3, 2014)

Trojan1994 said:


> Mixed results as stated in original post.  Best results with the 1.8D lenses, manually focused to a spot on the court and waiting for (s) to get there.  Issues are lots of out of focus shots when using lenses with Auto Focus, grainyness despite ISO at 200, dark then light photos when shooting in continuous mode.  Maybe 20 or so real keepers shots, in terms of clarity & brightness out of say 1,000 shots.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Tony



ISO 200 is great for shooting landscapes and cityscapes but you need a 1/500-600 shutter speed for indoor sports. In order to achieve that, you will need a ISO 6,400-10,000. I would use Shutter Priority and set it to 1/500-600. It will then select the best ISO/F-stop for the situation. A Full Frame sensor will work better at higher ISOs than a Crop sensor allowing you to cranking it up to ISO 10,000. You're still going to get noise but not as much as you would shooting a crop camera at ISO 10,000.


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## Tailgunner (Mar 3, 2014)

Trojan1994 said:


> Thanks Tailgunner, wow, ISO around 10,000?!?!  I can't stand the way my pics look when I have them at 800 with my body, maybe I'm doing something wrong.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Tony



I understand, I have a D300 and anything about ISO 800 looks like Butt. Crop sensors struggle at a higher ISO. Now to be fare, modern Crop bodies has come a long ways. My D7100 did really well up to ISO 3200, much better than a some of the previous DX bodies. But I need ISO 10,000 in order to get a 1/500-600 shutter speed. This is where a Full Frame really shines. You still get noise with a FX body but it's less at a higher ISO than you would see with a DX at the same ISO.


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## Trojan1994 (Mar 3, 2014)

Thanks, I have been squeaking by with ISO 200 I guess, lol!  So the 7100's advantages of auto focus system, shutter speed, flash, etc. do get outweighed by the 610's Full Frame Sensor to provide better photos in low light?  I guess what I'm trying to say is that the specs where the 610 is lower than the 7100 is more than sufficient for my application and that the 610's Sensor really pushes it over the top as the "better body" for me?

Regards,

Tony


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## Crazydad (Mar 3, 2014)

I really wish Nikon would read this thread. just another case where a D400 would be the perfect camera. I shoot night soccer games with my D90 and am able to get some decent shots at ISO 3200 but I have do some serious noise reduction in Photoshop. Personally I use Aperture Priority, lock the ISO at 3200 and set the Aperture to wide open to get the fastest shutter speed possible.

Even though I am ready to upgrade, I have not tried the D7100 or 610 because neither fits my need (7-9fps RAW with high ISO abilities). If I had to choose, I would probably go with the 7100 for the frame rate in jpeg and it supposedly has a better focusing system. Then use Photoshop/Lightroom for noise reduction. Unless I win the lottery and could afford a D4s (would probably jump to Canon and get the 1D-x).


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## robbins.photo (Mar 3, 2014)

Tailgunner said:


> Trojan1994 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks Tailgunner, wow, ISO around 10,000?!?!  I can't stand the way my pics look when I have them at 800 with my body, maybe I'm doing something wrong.
> ...




Well actually old crop sensors struggle at anything above ISO 800.  I shoot well above that all the time myself on a D5200, and I generally get what I consider to be pretty good results especially with a bit of post processing/noise reduction.  This was shot at ISO 5000 on a D5200:




20140216_605 by robbins.photo, on Flickr

The D7100 actually has better high ISO to low noise than my D5200.


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