# Is there a future for SLT?



## unpopular

With phase contrast now available on the sensor, the huge success of NEX, and Sony's niche in the "serious amateur" market, do you think Sony will continue to produce "DSLR-style" SLT cameras in the future?


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## skieur

Basic marketting 101 applied to this is that if one company decides that the "DSLR-style" is dead, then all the competing camera companies will start looking for alternatives that work better.  Canon or Nikon might come up with a better solution, but while they are working on it, Sony may be gaining market share with their SLT approach.

The current advantages of Sony's SLT system are:

1. the bright OLED viewfinder with real time display of camera adjustments on the image.
2. 100% viewfinder accuracy.
3. a quiet shutter with no mirror vibration which means slower shutterspeeds, less blur, and the ability to do close up street photography without being noticed.
4. fast frames per second which permits in-camera panorama, in-camera HDR and in-camera multi-shot noise reduction.

skieur


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## unpopular

skieur - I agree completely, but my point is will Sony stop making SLT and focus on NEX-like mirrorless systems?

It seems likely that with the VG-900 and yet to be confirmed full frame NEX still camera that the NEX lenses will be eventually made full frame compatible. IMO, Sony, Fuji and Ricoh are the only ones that are taking the Mirrorless market in a sustainable direction. Nikon and Canon's approaches have been pretty limp at best; the Nikon 1 is probably the worst idea since disk film.

---

No matter the platform design, I don't think that optical viewfinders will last much longer. While not everyone may like them, the economics of a "solid state" viewfinder just makes more sense.


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## skieur

unpopular said:


> skieur - I agree completely, but my point is will Sony stop making SLT and focus on NEX-like mirrorless systems?
> 
> It seems likely that with the VG-900 and yet to be confirmed full frame NEX still camera that the NEX lenses will be eventually made full frame compatible. IMO, Sony, Fuji and Ricoh are the only ones that are taking the Mirrorless market in a sustainable direction. Nikon and Canon's approaches have been pretty limp at best; the Nikon 1 is probably the worst idea since disk film.
> 
> ---
> 
> No matter the platform design, I don't think that optical viewfinders will last much longer. While not everyone may like them, the economics of a "solid state" viewfinder just makes more sense.




Good question. The NEX system is a more radical departure from the SLR than the SLT and Sony certainly has a reputation for taking some very different approaches to technology and format.  From a marketing point of view: Are they testing the waters so-to-speak, in order to determine which direction to go, or are they going to try and sustain BOTH approaches?

The A99 full frame SLT is still "in the wings" and may come out in the Fall.  After that, there may be little room for innovation in the SLT line and perhaps they will go full tilt with the popular Nex system.

Sony however has never been very predictable.

skieur


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## unpopular

The NEX platform also seems more scalable in terms of sensor size. It would be much easier to engineer a compatible medium format NEX than an SLT since there is no diagonal element to account for.


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## rexbobcat

unpopular said:


> skieur - I agree completely, but my point is will Sony stop making SLT and focus on NEX-like mirrorless systems?
> 
> It seems likely that with the VG-900 and yet to be confirmed full frame NEX still camera that the NEX lenses will be eventually made full frame compatible. IMO, Sony, Fuji and Ricoh are the only ones that are taking the Mirrorless market in a sustainable direction. Nikon and Canon's approaches have been pretty limp at best; the Nikon 1 is probably the worst idea since disk film.
> 
> ---
> 
> No matter the platform design, I don't think that optical viewfinders will last much longer. While not everyone may like them, the economics of a "solid state" viewfinder just makes more sense.



What makes the Nikon J1 bad? I've never used one but I've heard horrible things. It's just surprising since....Aren't their sensors made by Sony?

I really dislike the idea of losing optical viewfinders. I know it'll probably happen eventually but...when I photograph I don't want to see in the dark. What's the point of seeing things in the viewfinder that the camera itself can't effectively capture without going to unusable ISO's or shutter speeds? Our eyes are the best optical devices that we as humans have at our disposal, and I'd really hate to rely on an electronic system for something that is so simple and naturally effective without it. 

But alas, the EVFs will probably become mainstream if mirrorless becomes the new norm to keep the form factors nice and sleek. Now, if they make a very, VERY accurate EVF then I could probably get behind it, but...


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## unpopular

I am sure that the Nikon 1 uses sony sensors. My problem isn't so much the sensor itself, it's that it's an itsy-bitsy sensor.

Might be kinda fun with TV and 8mm lenses, but aside from that...

As for EVF it's kind of beside the point what we'd want. EVF's are cheaper to produce. We'll probably see high end optical DSLR's for the next 10 years, but I expect within that time EVFs will start replacing optical viewfinders in lower end cameras. I am very sure, however, within 20 years optical viewfinders will be "retro".


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## ceejtank

My only problem with Sony is that they use a lot of proprietary stuff that's annoying since you need adapters (not the case with all their stuff).  Such as the Produo cards  that my sony cybershot point and shoot takes.  Little things like that make me not buy sony (the cybershot was a gift).

That being said - I feel that Sonys business model will determine what they do going forward.  As long as people are buying their SLTs they will still pump them out.  They probably will move more towards the NEX as well though.  Just my .02.


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## unpopular

ceejtank said:


> My only problem with Sony is that they use a lot of proprietary stuff that's annoying since you need adapters (not the case with all their stuff).  Such as the Produo cards  that my sony cybershot point and shoot takes.  Little things like that make me not buy sony (the cybershot was a gift).



The only sony product I use is the a350 I own. _Nothing_ else. The lenses are even all Minolta. The grip is Meike. The memory card is a Lexar CF - I'm pretty sure on this model I'd need an adapter to even use MemoryStick. I don't even use Sony's RAW processor.

We got rid of our x-box for a playstation 3. I was happy that, unlike the X-Box, I could replace or upgrade the hard drive with any hard drive, and that I could use any bluetooth or USB keyboard. 

I bought my mother in law a Sony P&S. We didn't buy a card because it took the same SD card that she already had in her Kodak.

I keep hearing about this proprietary complaint, and maybe at one time it was true, or for some products. But I have *never* run into it myself; frankly, I wish people would just drop it.


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## Derrel

unpopular said:


> ceejtank said:
> 
> 
> 
> My only problem with Sony is that they use a lot of proprietary stuff that's annoying since you need adapters (not the case with all their stuff).  Such as the Produo cards  that my sony cybershot point and shoot takes.  Little things like that make me not buy sony (the cybershot was a gift).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only sony product I use is the a350 I own. _Nothing_ else. The lenses are even all Minolta. The grip is Meike. The memory card is a Lexar CF - I'm pretty sure on this model I'd need an adapter to even use MemoryStick. I don't even use Sony's RAW processor.
> 
> We got rid of our x-box for a playstation 3. I was happy that, unlike the X-Box, I could replace or upgrade the hard drive with any hard drive, and that I could use any bluetooth or USB keyboard.
> 
> I bought my mother in law a Sony P&S. We didn't buy a card because it took the same SD card that she already had in her Kodak.
> 
> I keep hearing about this proprietary complaint, and maybe at one time it was true, or for some products. But I have *never* run into it myself; frankly, I wish people would just drop it.
Click to expand...


You need to go out and buy an electronic flash unit for your Sony...


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## unpopular

From Sunpak or Metz? Wireless or not?

The minolta shoe is kinda annoying. But Sony is abandoning it for the ISO shoe.

---

Why is it that anyone ever mentions "Sony" there is always this "Sony sucks because ..." argument? I don't care about what people think about Sony, what I am wondering is if the SLT and Alpha mount has a future.


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## ceejtank

unpopular said:


> ceejtank said:
> 
> 
> 
> My only problem with Sony is that they use a lot of proprietary stuff that's annoying since you need adapters (not the case with all their stuff). Such as the Produo cards that my sony cybershot point and shoot takes. Little things like that make me not buy sony (the cybershot was a gift).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only sony product I use is the a350 I own. _Nothing_ else. The lenses are even all Minolta. The grip is Meike. The memory card is a Lexar CF - I'm pretty sure on this model I'd need an adapter to even use MemoryStick. I don't even use Sony's RAW processor.
> 
> We got rid of our x-box for a playstation 3. I was happy that, unlike the X-Box, I could replace or upgrade the hard drive with any hard drive, and that I could use any bluetooth or USB keyboard.
> 
> I bought my mother in law a Sony P&S. We didn't buy a card because it took the same SD card that she already had in her Kodak.
> 
> I keep hearing about this proprietary complaint, and maybe at one time it was true, or for some products. But I have *never* run into it myself; frankly, I wish people would just drop it.
Click to expand...


I have an Xbox, PS3, and a Wii(and many non-this generation systems). It depends what you want to do. If you want your network to go down for a month for security breaches.. choose sony.. because that's what happened. (I'm more fo an xbox fan). That being said - theyre both good systems. And if you have the right knowledge you can use any hard drive with XBOX as well. I Have mine hooked up simultaneously to my PC and using its own hard drive. So that isn't an issue for me. Also if you use windows you can sync your xbox to your pc, same as yuo can with the pS3.

It depends on the camera model I guess(or other thing youre buying), but it is a big issue, whether you've personally experienced it or not doesnt really matter because enough people have that it is an issue. It's not an "at one time" issue either.. my friend got a sony P&S within the last 6 months and it only took their pro-duo cards, so he needed an adapter. It's not a cost thing for us, its more if I want to upload, I need the adapter.. its just an annoyance.

Honestly - I think that's their biggest problem.  I won't try most sony products if theres a comparable alternative for the exact reason.


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## unpopular

well. that's nice.

anyway, back on topic?


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## KmH

EVF's still have a lag time and some other display issues. The lag prohibits the EVF from showing burst mode sequences in real time.

EVF technology has a ways to go yet, and cost may continue to be an issue. It is said Sony subsidizes the cost of it's SLT cameras.


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## unpopular

I have no doubt the lag issue will be fixed, at least in well lit situations, that's just a processing issue. As for cost I'm not sure. Maybe, but theoretically EVF should be cheaper.


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## prodigy2k7

I prefer glass. A real optical viewfinder. I have perfect vision and until LCD Look REAL I won't e getting one.


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## unpopular

This thread was supposed to be about Sony and the SLT, not EVFs


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## prodigy2k7

Doesn't the slt have an evf? Maybe I'm wrong.


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## unpopular

yes. but what does that have to do with anything?

oh never mind.


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## JoshuaSimPhotography

I mean, hey, they ARE making money. And people will continue to buy this not even knowing it IS not an actual DSLR. And this has also boosted Sony's reputation. So my verdict is yes IMO


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## cosmonaut

I think the Sony hot shoe is a lame excuse it's not like I could enter change my Sony and Nikon flashes even if they did fit. As is it keeps me from putting one on the other by mistake. The memory card thing is another lame excuse as my a850 takes CF cards and any I put in it. The a77 takes a standard SD. But my Nikon D800 will not work with some of my older slow CF cards.
As far as tha SLT I am not sure how interested I would be in a full frame with a EVF. Unless there are lots of improvements. The EVF will show you the shot as it will be exposed but fails this with long exposures or when using a flash. If I were a fashion, portrait or sports shooter and shot 1000s of pictures I would find the EVF and it flickering between shots very annoying. As time goes on I find the EVF kind of gimmicky. I know my cameras well enough to expose a shot without a viewfinder preview. I still prefer a SLR but really like articulating screens. To bad the D800s does swivel. I know it off subject but the N1 thing to for price paid for image quality is the thing with me. Anything out there will beat it. But I read the CF was unreal.


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## unpopular

The minolta shoe argument isn't here nor there, and wasn't that big of an issue until people were out looking for some reason to dislike Sony.

OTOH, aside from being easier and faster to mount and unmount (which has never been a real world issue) the Minolta shoe I don't think is a good thing, and neither does Sony. The a99 is said to have a standard ISO shoe, as does it appear the NEX-6.


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## TCampbell

cosmonaut said:


> I think the Sony hot shoe is a lame excuse it's not like I could enter change my Sony and Nikon flashes even if they did fit.



Actually... you could.  You can, for example, mount a Canon flash on a Nikon, or a Pentax, etc. but the catch is you'd have to use the flash in "manual" mode (no E-TTL or iTTL, etc.)  That's because the industry-standard for the hot-shoe design is that the electrical contacts that matter are the ground plate of the foot (sometime the foot is plastic in which case they usually put a metal contact on it so that it conducts the signal into the metal "shoe" on the camera body) and the center pen.  When you close the circuit between the center pen and the ground plate, the flash will fire manually. 

The rest of the pins control the added features of the flash.  For example... the original "automatic" modes merely told the camera to set a specific f-stop and that was it.  Internal to the flash was a sensor that measured the reflected light and killed the light as soon as enough reflection had been received.  It worked, it was automatic, but it was also easy to fool.  The industry went through several iterations that improved automatic flash to arrive at the systems we have today.  BUT... most studio flashes are still manual.

So if you want to use a wireless radio flash trigger (Pocket Wizard, etc.) you can get these for Canon & Nikon... but as far as I know, you can't get one for Sony.
[/QUOTE]


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## unpopular

Pocket Wizard is a pretty limited market. You can use Sony/Minolta compatible Wireless TTL speed lights. Every Sony DSLR has wireless TTL. This Minolta feature seems to be something people forget.

That pretty much leaves TTL-compatable monos, which seems kind of silly to me, honestly.


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## kassad

TCampbell said:


> cosmonaut said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think the Sony hot shoe is a lame excuse it's not like I could enter change my Sony and Nikon flashes even if they did fit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually... you could.  You can, for example, mount a Canon flash on a Nikon, or a Pentax, etc. but the catch is you'd have to use the flash in "manual" mode (no E-TTL or iTTL, etc.)  That's because the industry-standard for the hot-shoe design is that the electrical contacts that matter are the ground plate of the foot (sometime the foot is plastic in which case they usually put a metal contact on it so that it conducts the signal into the metal "shoe" on the camera body) and the center pen.  When you close the circuit between the center pen and the ground plate, the flash will fire manually.
> 
> The rest of the pins control the added features of the flash.  For example... the original "automatic" modes merely told the camera to set a specific f-stop and that was it.  Internal to the flash was a sensor that measured the reflected light and killed the light as soon as enough reflection had been received.  It worked, it was automatic, but it was also easy to fool.  The industry went through several iterations that improved automatic flash to arrive at the systems we have today.  BUT... most studio flashes are still manual.
> 
> So if you want to use a wireless radio flash trigger (Pocket Wizard, etc.) you can get these for Canon & Nikon... but as far as I know, you can't get one for Sony.
Click to expand...

[/QUOTE]

You can get wireless radio triggers for the sony mount.   Not the TTL pocket wizards but many of the other triggers are available in the Minolta mount.   As far as the pin configuration your absolutely right.   Every manufacturer has uniques falsh mounts.   Sure you can mount a Canon flash on a Nikon camera,  but why would you want to?   You can do the same thing with a sony with an inexpensive adapater.    But again why would you want to?    I can see using a different brand as an off camera flash in manual mode and this is easy to with the existing radio triggers for the Minolta mount.   

Interestingly, it appears Sony is dropping the Minolta mount in favor for the ISO shoe.


As far as SLT I see know real advantage for it over a purely mirrorless design now that af sensors can be on the image sensor.    I see the larger SLR form factor sticking around but I don't see any long term advantage of maintaining the SLT design.


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## skieur

KmH said:


> EVF's still have a lag time and some other display issues. The lag prohibits the EVF from showing burst mode sequences in real time.
> 
> EVF technology has a ways to go yet, and cost may continue to be an issue. It is said Sony subsidizes the cost of it's SLT cameras.



All cameras including DSLRs have a lag time, but really how often does the average shooter need to use 12 frames per second?

skieur


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## skieur

TCampbell said:


> cosmonaut said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think the Sony hot shoe is a lame excuse it's not like I could enter change my Sony and Nikon flashes even if they did fit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually... you could. You can, for example, mount a Canon flash on a Nikon, or a Pentax, etc. but the catch is you'd have to use the flash in "manual" mode (no E-TTL or iTTL, etc.) That's because the industry-standard for the hot-shoe design is that the electrical contacts that matter are the ground plate of the foot (sometime the foot is plastic in which case they usually put a metal contact on it so that it conducts the signal into the metal "shoe" on the camera body) and the center pen. When you close the circuit between the center pen and the ground plate, the flash will fire manually.
> 
> The rest of the pins control the added features of the flash. For example... the original "automatic" modes merely told the camera to set a specific f-stop and that was it. Internal to the flash was a sensor that measured the reflected light and killed the light as soon as enough reflection had been received. It worked, it was automatic, but it was also easy to fool. The industry went through several iterations that improved automatic flash to arrive at the systems we have today. BUT... most studio flashes are still manual.
> 
> So if you want to use a wireless radio flash trigger (Pocket Wizard, etc.) you can get these for Canon & Nikon... but as far as I know, you can't get one for Sony.
Click to expand...

[/QUOTE]

Why would you need a wireless radio flash trigger, since the SLTs seem to operate a wireless flash anywhere off the camera?

skieur


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## ConradM

I think if other Sony Alpha users are as happy with the product as I am it will have a future. I can't ever see myself switching brands because I'm just won over by the tech in the Alpha line. Sony needs to launch an aggressive marketing campaign showing the benefits of SLT for new or aspiring photogs. 

I recently convinced an old friend of mine to try the Sony A57 after she broke her D3000. She was incredibly skeptical but now she's in love with Alphas just like I am.


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## skieur

unpopular said:


> From Sunpak or Metz? Wireless or not?
> 
> The minolta shoe is kinda annoying. But Sony is abandoning it for the ISO shoe.
> 
> ---
> 
> Why is it that anyone ever mentions "Sony" there is always this "Sony sucks because ..." argument? I don't care about what people think about Sony, what I am wondering is if the SLT and Alpha mount has a future.



Does it really matter? If the SLT gives you shooting advantages over those with an SLR such as quieter shutter, slower shutterspeeds, built in panorama and HDR modes, real time effects, 100% accuracy, etc., then use those advantages successfully for as long as possible.

skieur


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## Kolia

unpopular said:
			
		

> This thread was supposed to be about Sony and the SLT, not EVFs



It sounds more like what you're asking is "Is the DSLR like form format has a future ?"

SLR, SLT or Mirror Less, these don't matter as much as how you handle the camera and access it's functions. A NEX is nice but not as functional as a DSLR body.


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## unpopular

Well, more specifically, is it the future for Sony. Nikon and Canon are still thinking Grandma is going to want interchangeable lenses.

---

Why can't an NEX be as functional as an SLT? As far as I can tell the only advantage is fast AF. If that is solved, what purpose is an SLT? I get the advantages of optical finders (don't worry Skieur, I get the advantages of EVF as well), but clearly it seems Sony is getting away from that, so that's neither here nor there. My question is will Sony drop the mirror entirely.


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## Kolia

The NEX body isn't as comfortable as a DSLR type body. 

Viewfinder is a must for me. 

The only reason Sony might keep the SLT is if it still cheaper than focal plane phase focusing. But even if the did, the camera would still look pretty much the same.


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## unpopular

The NEX is certainly made to be compact, and I am pretty sure that the days of NEX without EVF are over. The next NEX 5 I am sure will have a viewfinder.

But I think if you incorporated a full frame sensor and a full, ergonomic grip - possibly a vertical grip as well, the NEX could be made into a very significant camera, reminiscent of the Mamiya 7 or Fuji GW. Currently there is a lot of direction towered Leica-wannabes. It doesn't seem that Sony is taking that direction.


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## skieur

KmH said:


> EVF's still have a lag time and some other display issues. The lag prohibits the EVF from showing burst mode sequences in real time.
> 
> EVF technology has a ways to go yet, and cost may continue to be an issue. It is said Sony subsidizes the cost of it's SLT cameras.



You are talking about EVFs NOT SLTs.  Optical viewfinders do NOT show 12fps burst shots in real time either, because they do not have that speed.  As to really LOW light situations optical viewfinders show NOTHING in the viewfinder, while SLTs show an image in the viewfinder with noise.  At least with an image you can compose, while with an optical viefinder you are totally shooting blind in extremely low light.

skieur


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## skieur

unpopular said:


> Well, more specifically, is it the future for Sony. Nikon and Canon are still thinking Grandma is going to want interchangeable lenses.
> 
> ---
> 
> Why can't an NEX be as functional as an SLT? As far as I can tell the only advantage is fast AF. If that is solved, what purpose is an SLT? I get the advantages of optical finders (don't worry Skieur, I get the advantages of EVF as well), but clearly it seems Sony is getting away from that, so that's neither here nor there. My question is will Sony drop the mirror entirely.



NEX has the potential of having a good sized sensor on a Leica style rangefinder look camera. The disadvantage is the prospect of having large heavy lenses on a small camera. The problem with most digital lenses is the small magnification level of 1/3 or lower. A 200mm prime with a 1:1 magnification level for example is quite heavy and I could not picture such a thing on a NEX camera.

It would seem that a breakthrough in lens design and size would be necessary to make the NEX viable for former DLSR shooters.

skieur


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