# Help with pricing on licensing images from Ireland



## Tight Knot

Hello everyone,

I hope you're all doing well.

Life has been exceptionally hectic lately, and I haven't had a chance to log in for a while, but don't think I've forgotten you all  (no such luck ).

I was in Ireland a few months ago for eye surgery, and while there I was lucky enough to take some trips.
Some of the photos from one of the trips I took were shared with a boat tour operator, and they have asked how much I would charge to license some of my images for brochure printing.
Currently I only license through stock websites, but I'm pretty sure the rates would be very different.
I am hoping for some advice on acceptable rates for licensing images. If anyone could chime in with a few ideas it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks so much,

Bruce Len


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## KmH

We need to know the extent of the geographical area the brochures would be distributed over, how many brochures they want to license to be printed, if your photo(s) will be on the front, back, or inside of the brochure, and what size your photo(s) will be printed.


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## Tight Knot

KmH said:


> We need to know the extent of the geographical area the brochures would be distributed over, how many brochures they want to license to be printed, if your photo(s) will be on the front, back, or inside of the brochure, and what size your photo(s) will be printed.


Hi Kieth,

All excellent questions.

I'll ask them and get back to you.

Thanks so much for your reply.


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## tirediron

First and foremost, you need to ask them what their budget is for the project.  If you're thinking $100 and they have $500 budgeted...


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## Tight Knot

tirediron said:


> First and foremost, you need to ask them what their budget is for the project.  If you're thinking $100 and they have $500 budgeted...


Hi tirediron,

Thanks for your reply, you are 100% correct.
This is the email I sent out, and now I shall wait for some answers. Let me know what you think 

Hi ????,

I'm so happy to hear from you, and hope you had a wonderful Holiday Season with your family.

I would like to thank you for considering using some of my images in your printed guides.

The truth is, I'm not sure what to tell you as far as pricing goes, as there are many variables at play. First of all, I really don't know the Irish marketplace, and would love to hear what you have been accustomed to pay in the past, and what your budget is (we love to work within other people's budgets, and what they can afford, that way we never worry we're overcharging).
Or if I may, let me ask you a few questions that will help me understand your needs better. 
It would be easier if we knew the extent of the geographical area the brochures would be distributed over, how many brochures you want to license to be printed, if my photo(s) will be on the front, back, or inside of the brochure, and what size the photo(s) will be printed.
Please know, that I have quite a few other images of the Cliffs of Moher from the boat and from land.
Feel free to look at my website, I updated it recently with the images from my trip, Legacy Photography - Ireland the Beautiful

Wishing you all the best,

Boruch Len


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## vintagesnaps

If/when you get to the point of a contract usually the usage should be specific; for example the photo may be used for one print run, then if they want to use the same image in another set of brochures the next year you'd need to contract for that. Maybe they'd put the photo on the cover for the first run, then would want to contract to use the photo in a smaller size on the back or inside the next time around.

Try American Society of Media Photographers or PPA for guidelines for contracts and licensing usage.


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## Tight Knot

Hi Sharon,

Thanks so much for your suggestions. I'm a member of PPA and forgot that I could look there also.
Thanks again.


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## KmH

ASMP recommends using stock/assigment pricing software -  fotoQuote – Stock and Assignment Photography Price Guide


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## Tight Knot

KmH said:


> ASMP recommends using stock/assigment pricing software -  fotoQuote – Stock and Assignment Photography Price Guide


Very interesting. Just looking at their info now. Thanks so much.


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## tirediron

KmH said:


> ASMP recommends using stock/assigment pricing software -  fotoQuote – Stock and Assignment Photography Price Guide


 Unfortunately, while it provides a consistent baseline for pricing, I don't really think fotoQuote reflects  the reality of today's market.  The simple fact is that most people buying images for commercial use no longer see any need to spend the money they used to.  A story I've told before is of the job I lost last year:  I was invited to bid on a job photographing a brand-new high-end car dealership construction.  The company that asked me to tender is a large, international construction firm with hundreds of millions of dollars in projects under way at any one time.  My bid to photograph the building & grounds and provide six .tif files (licensed in perpetuity) and one 16x20 framed and matted print was just over $4000 - WELL below fotoQuote's recommendation and they ditched me and hired someone for less than 1/10 of my bid... 

A lesson I'm learning is that these days, you need to find out what the customer is willing to pay for a job, and decide if that's a price that you can live with.  The days of us quoting a price to the client and sticking to it, are, for the most part, long gone, and never to return.  Granted, there are still a few who can command whatever they want, but in the majority of cases...  not so much.


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## Tight Knot

tirediron said:


> KmH said:
> 
> 
> 
> ASMP recommends using stock/assigment pricing software -  fotoQuote – Stock and Assignment Photography Price Guide
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, while it provides a consistent baseline for pricing, I don't really think fotoQuote reflects  the reality of today's market.  The simple fact is that most people buying images for commercial use no longer see any need to spend the money they used to.  A story I've told before is of the job I lost last year:  I was invited to bid on a job photographing a brand-new high-end car dealership construction.  The company that asked me to tender is a large, international construction firm with hundreds of millions of dollars in projects under way at any one time.  My bid to photograph the building & grounds and provide six .tif files (licensed in perpetuity) and one 16x20 framed and matted print was just over $4000 - WELL below fotoQuote's recommendation and they ditched me and hired someone for less than 1/10 of my bid...
> 
> A lesson I'm learning is that these days, you need to find out what the customer is willing to pay for a job, and decide if that's a price that you can live with.  The days of us quoting a price to the client and sticking to it, are, for the most part, long gone, and never to return.  Granted, there are still a few who can command whatever they want, but in the majority of cases...  not so much.
Click to expand...

I hear exactly what you are saying!! Every time I've used this type of software before, I priced myself WWWWAAAAAYYYYYY out of the game. I thought it was just me .

This is the response  I received, I personally am perfectly happy to accept the offer, licensed for a year.

What do you think?

Hello Boruch

Thank you for your prompt reply.  The truth is, I have not paid for the use of images before, so Im afraid I don’t have an answer for you J 

The guide in question is called the Daily Adventurer:  http://www.??????????.com and it is the Shannon Region edition.  If we are using your image, it would be very small on an internal page, roughly 50mm x 40mm, and it has no space where your website could be listed and easily read.

Would 100 euros be acceptable? 

Kind regards

?????


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## tirediron

That sounds reasonable to me!


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## KmH

Take the money and run.

I am so glad I was able to live during a time when one could be a full time professional photographer and make some real money.
But it's sad watching the profession whither up and die.


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## Tight Knot

KmH said:


> Take the money and run.
> 
> I am so glad I was able to live during a time when one could be a full time professional photographer and make some real money.
> But it's sad watching the profession whither up and die.


I agree wholeheartedly. The question is, how do we adapt and still make money?

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


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## KmH

A living income cannot be made by doing retail photography today.
Commercial photography is in almost as bad a shape.

You adapt by pursuing a career that pays a living income.

Today photographs are a bulk commodity - like bushels of corn.

In order - The Internet, the DSLR, social networking, and photo sharing web sites have  all combined to kill the industry.


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## Tight Knot

KmH said:


> A living income cannot be made by doing retail photography today.
> Commercial photography is in almost as bad a shape.
> 
> You adapt by pursuing a career that pays a living income.
> 
> Today photographs are a bulk commodity - like bushels of corn.
> 
> In order - The Internet, the DSLR, social networking, and photo sharing web sites have  all combined to kill the industry.


I'm scared that you're right, and I pray to G-D you're wrong.


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## vintagesnaps

Wait a minute, how does this person not know how to license usage?? saying he/she hasn't licensed usage before. The brochure is apparently one of 5 regional ones done on Your Daily Adventure by a company called Glance Promotions; there are a couple of photos on every page of their brochures (if it's this company).

Is this person actually with the company doing the brochure?? this doesn't make sense. The person would be licensing usage every time a new brochure is done, and apparently with a number of photographers by the look of the brochures. Even if it's a different company than this the person should know how to license usage.

Something doesn't seem right... maybe you need to ask some questions and get more information - don't send the photo(s) on the basis of the person just saying they'll pay $___ euros, and please be careful about signing a contract or anything.


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## AceCo55

KmH said:


> A living income cannot be made by doing retail photography today.
> Commercial photography is in almost as bad a shape.
> 
> You adapt by pursuing a career that pays a living income.
> 
> Today photographs are a bulk commodity - like bushels of corn.
> 
> In order - The Internet, the DSLR, social networking, and photo sharing web sites have  all combined to kill the industry.



My apologies to the OP for not staying on-task as to your question. KmH's comment just got me thinking about how pros might handle the "new environment"; so a few random thoughts ...

So is there a big opportunity for pros to educate the huge number of novices?????
Running courses, workshops etc.

There must be 1000's of "wannabees" who would love to take better photos - but they only have a limited understanding of their cameras, exposure, lighting, flash, shooting a family event, running a business, post processing, displaying images.
Become their #1 "go to" place for improvement. Keep varying the offerings so they keep coming back.
Every year there will be a new group of potential clients buying a camera.
Why not tap into that huge market rather than struggling to find shoots of diminishing returns.

So break up the MIX of the business.
* Continue to offer a premium product for those that appreciate quality and are willing to pay for it.
* Add the education side to your repertoire of services and market to the MWAC/DWAC/part-timers. Hell there is a flood of them at sports events - get your word out to THEM. "I can help you take a LOT better photos of your kids". "I'll tell what settings you need to use and why". "Learn in a friendly atmosphere with other parents who want to make keepsakes of their kids" Blah, blah blah
Get access to private mentoring via subscription service - email access to you?

Instead of competing against this flood of cameras, get them to come to you so you can make them better????????


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## Tight Knot

vintagesnaps said:


> Wait a minute, how does this person not know how to license usage?? saying he/she hasn't licensed usage before. The brochure is apparently one of 5 regional ones done on Your Daily Adventure by a company called Glance Promotions; there are a couple of photos on every page of their brochures (if it's this company).
> 
> Is this person actually with the company doing the brochure?? this doesn't make sense. The person would be licensing usage every time a new brochure is done, and apparently with a number of photographers by the look of the brochures. Even if it's a different company than this the person should know how to license usage.
> 
> Something doesn't seem right... maybe you need to ask some questions and get more information - don't send the photo(s) on the basis of the person just saying they'll pay $___ euros, and please be careful about signing a contract or anything.


Hey vintagesnap, thanks for your reply.

The place that wants to license my image is NOT the same place that makes the brochures. They are a small boat tour operator. 
Plus, I already sent them a bunch of images for their perusal (low res with a watermark) about a month ago.
If they wanted to, they could have just used my image/s without asking, and I would have never know. 
The fact that they contacted me back a month later asking to use the image, shows their honest intentions.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


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## KmH

AceCo55 said:


> So is there a big opportunity for pros to educate the huge number of novices?????
> Running courses, workshops etc.


No.


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## AceCo55

KmH said:


> AceCo55 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So is there a big opportunity for pros to educate the huge number of novices?????
> Running courses, workshops etc.
> 
> 
> 
> No.
Click to expand...

OK ...


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## beagle100

KmH said:


> I am so glad I was able to live during a time when one could be a full time professional photographer and make some real money.
> But it's sad watching the profession whither up and die.



yes it is sad
but now that everyone has a camera and is a part of the photography "profession" maybe it's a good thing


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## calamityjane

Being based in the UK, it sounds like that's probably your best offer for that usage, but make sure it's the one use only and any other is charged separately. In future, you might want to look at the NUJ (National Union of Journalists) rates for the job ( Freelance Fees Guide: Welcome ) and compare them with the Alamy calculator ( www.alamy.com ), just to get a sense of variance. Although Ireland is not in the UK, I suspect the prices are similar.


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