# Does film quality and type affect the image quality?



## NedM (Mar 7, 2014)

I shot using Ultrafine Extreme ASA 400.

Today, I developed my negatives in the darkroom, and when the negatives were done drying I noticed they were kind of purple-ish. 

I showed my professor and he had told me that the lab technician had screwed up the chemicals for developing. 

I was really concerned because I bought my film from : UltraFineOnLine Photo Warehouse as recommended by the community here.

What could I do to ensure better development in the darkroom?


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## tirediron (Mar 7, 2014)

The best thing you can do is develop it yourself.  A purple cast is often a result of film that's been allowed to get too warm prior to development (leaving your camera in direct sun on a summer day, storing unused/undeveloped film in a hot location).


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## NedM (Mar 7, 2014)

tirediron said:


> The best thing you can do is develop it yourself.  A purple cast is often a result of film that's been allowed to get too warm prior to development (leaving your camera in direct sun on a summer day, storing unused/undeveloped film in a hot location).




I forgot to mention I did develop the film myself, but not the chemicals. The lab technician of the day somehow mixed the chemicals incorrectly, which is why some of my other classmate's negatives were turning out very purple or light.

So, does it matter what kind of film I use?


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## tirediron (Mar 7, 2014)

Ahhh, gotcha!  There's not much you can do if the chemicals are mixed incorrectly other than swear at the lab tech.


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## Josh66 (Mar 7, 2014)

Was this the first time you've ever used this film?  If so, have another roll developed somewhere else or by someone else or using a different batch of chemicals.  Maybe that's just how it "looks"?

Does other film developed in that batch of chemicals look the same?


You need to figure out if you did something wrong, the chemicals are bad, or that's just how that film looks after developing...  Nevermind - sounds like you already have it figured out.


Yes - it matters which film you use.  They're all a little different - grain, saturation, sharpness, etc...  Experiment and figure out what you like, then buy a ton of it before it's discontinued, lol.  (All of my favorite color films keep getting discontinued...)


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## vintagesnaps (Mar 7, 2014)

Sounds like the professor needs to check with the lab technicians to make sure they know how to mix the chemistry properly (since classmates had the same thing happen).

There can be differences in film; I've never used Ultrafine. You could try another roll and when you develop it if the chemistry is mixed correctly and classmates' film turns out and yours doesn't then you might figure out if that type film is a good choice or not.


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## Light Guru (Mar 7, 2014)

NedM said:


> Today, I developed my negatives in the darkroom, and when the negatives were done drying I noticed they were kind of purple-ish.
> 
> I showed my professor and he had told me that the lab technician had screwed up the chemicals for developing.



That sounds like the you ether didn't fix the film long enough, some types of film take longer to fix then others.  It could also be that the fixer is deep leaded or over used which can easily happen in a school lab. 

I'm actually surprised (and a little worried) that a "professor" teaching film photography would not suspect the fixing if the negatives are purple.  A simple google search on purple negatives will lead to lots of forum threads pointing to fixing being the cause. 

As for the question you asked in your subject line the answer is most definitely YES


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## Mike_E (Mar 7, 2014)

In the mean time, scan the negs and fix the white balance in photo shop.

The easiest way I know comes from Katrin Eastman:  1)  make two copies of the original -control J, control J
2) un tick the original and first layer.  highlight the third copy (copy level 1) and go to filter- blur- average
3)  use the eyedropper tool and sample the result.  You'll see one of the double squares on the left toolbar has changed to that color.
4)  discard layer 1 copy and activate layer one
5)  go to image-levels- then the middle eye-dropper and click on it
6)  bring your cursor over to the square that changed to the average color and click on it.
7)  compare the layer and the original.  If you like what you have then you're good to go.  If not then try blend modes, if you're still unhappy you're on your own.  

If you get it right in PS but you still have to wet print look up creating ink-jet negatives.


good luck


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## table1349 (Mar 7, 2014)

In my film days when I had my own dedicated dark room, no one, I mean NO ONE processed any film I could process and *I always* mixed my own chemicals.  If you do every step in the process you own that process and the results, you own the successes and you own the Ahh-$#!%$.


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## NedM (Mar 8, 2014)

Josh66 said:


> Was this the first time you've ever used this film?  If so, have another roll developed somewhere else or by someone else or using a different batch of chemicals.  Maybe that's just how it "looks"?
> 
> Does other film developed in that batch of chemicals look the same?
> 
> ...



Yes, this was the first I ever used this film. 
Most of the films developed in the same batch do look the same as mine.

I'm pretty sure it was of badly mixed chemicals.


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## NedM (Mar 8, 2014)

Light Guru said:


> NedM said:
> 
> 
> > Today, I developed my negatives in the darkroom, and when the negatives were done drying I noticed they were kind of purple-ish.
> ...



After he found out that some of student's negatives were appearing purple, he went ahead and changed out all the chemicals and mixed up a new batch. He blamed it on the lab technician (who is sort of an apprentice to the professor) and ended up giving all of us a free roll of film to re-shoot the assignment.

Hm, what kinds of films should I be looking into and how I can tell which ones I should get?
Sorry, complete noob when it comes to buying film.


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## NedM (Mar 8, 2014)

gryphonslair99 said:


> In my film days when I had my own dedicated dark room, no one, I mean NO ONE processed any film I could process and *I always* mixed my own chemicals.  If you do every step in the process you own that process and the results, you own the successes and you own the Ahh-$#!%$.




Wish I could afford and even have the space to have my own dedicated darkroom. 
Than again, my school offers their darkroom to students for free. Along with the necessary supplies: A darkroom to develop negatives, develop tanks, reels, 12 enlargers, contact sheet printer, lenses for the enlargers, practically anything you can think of. I only need to pay for my own photo paper and film. The rest is free.


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## Josh66 (Mar 8, 2014)

NedM said:


> Hm, what kinds of films should I be looking into and how I can tell which ones I should get?
> Sorry, complete noob when it comes to buying film.


Assuming we're talking strictly color film, I've always preferred Fuji.  It just handles mixed lighting much better in my experience.

That said, you can't really go wrong with any of the "pro" films, you just have to be careful with mixed lighting using Kodak film (IMO).  Anything too far from "daylight" will start to shift...

Buy a roll or two of whatever you can get, then just figure out which one you like best.  Be sure to test them in different lighting conditions.  Outside, indoors, mixed, etc...


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## NedM (Mar 8, 2014)

Josh66 said:


> NedM said:
> 
> 
> > Hm, what kinds of films should I be looking into and how I can tell which ones I should get?
> ...



I shoot only black and white but I'll keep those tips in mind!


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## Josh66 (Mar 8, 2014)

My bad.  For some reason I thought that was a color film, lol.  Never used it before.


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## vimwiz (Mar 8, 2014)

If you are developing at home, I am in love with Ilford films. (HP5)


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## webestang64 (Mar 8, 2014)

How long did you fix and how long did you wash? Most BW films if not fixed right or washed long enough (30 min wash if no Hypo clear) will have a color tint to them.


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## Joxby (Mar 8, 2014)

This sounds like a washing problem rather than a developer or fixer cock up.
If there was a developing or fixer fault, the "problem" would be much more profound than a purple tint.
I don't pretend to know what component of the film emulsion produces the tint, but I do know that Kodak tints my fixer purple and AGFA apx tints it pink.
Its harmless but annoying so I shoot Ilford which doesn't produce any tint...


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## Light Guru (Mar 8, 2014)

NedM said:


> Wish I could afford and even have the space to have my own dedicated darkroom.



Foe just developing film you don't need a dedicated dark room.  Load the film into the developing tank in a film changing bag and then develop in the bathroom or kitchen. 



Joxby said:


> If there was a developing or fixer fault, the "problem" would be much more profound than a purple tint.



Nobody here except the OP has scene how "profound" the purple tint is. 

I'm betting the fixer used was ether exhausted or mixed improperly.  In a student lab with lots of people developing film it would be easy for the fixer to get exhausted.


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## vintagesnaps (Mar 8, 2014)

Sounds like the instructor realized there was a mistake made in mixing the chemistry since everybody's film went purple. You could as mentioned scan and edit digitally if you want to use pictures from that roll but for the purposes of the class it sounds like you'll need to shoot the replacement roll they gave you - I imagine the point is to shoot and develop your own film. 

I used to use a shared darkroom at a local university where people in the community could join the art center on campus - for the cost per year to use the equipment and chemistry I would just bring my own paper (and film or previously developed negatives). Either the staff at the art building or student monitors mixed the chemistry and you just poured out what you needed. I don't remember ever having a problem with the chemistry but I could see how that could happen.

I use Kodak TMAX, or TriX should be fine, or any of the Ilford films (except the B&W that uses C41 developing). Sometimes FPP has film at a good price, or KEH now sells film; I've bought from Freestyle and sometimes Lomography has had expired film on sale. If you're not sure ask your instructor but for the purposes of the class it may not matter what kind you buy.

edit - And yes, in a shared darkroom the chemistry may get exhausted, students seem to like to use the developer til it's coal black and you can't get a print out of it anymore!


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## unpopular (Mar 8, 2014)

Provided that this is a true b/w film, I personally cannot think of any situation that would cause a uniform purple stain resulting from improperly mixed chemistry. I could be completely wrong, but I just don't see how it's possible.

What seems more likely to me is that the antihilation layer was not fully washed away. IIRC this can happen with hard water, and adding photoflo to the pre-rinse might help.Though, I'd imagine that durring development your rinses ought to have removed at least some of the dye, and would have likewise been purple.

It is possible that the base is just purplish, and being that paper is orthochromatic this shouldn't be problematic, especially if it's uniform. If the stain isn't uniform, that would only add more mystery and if it is density variable (i.e. more dense areas are more purple) then the problem would certainly be, somehow, chemical.


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## Light Guru (Mar 8, 2014)

unpopular said:


> Provided that this is a true b/w film, I personally cannot think of any situation that would cause a uniform purple stain resulting from improperly mixed chemistry. I could be completely wrong, but I just don't see how it's possible.



Not fixing long enough is the most common reason for purple negatives and therefor fixed that is too diluted would definitely give similar results to not fixing long enough.


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## timor (Mar 8, 2014)

NedM said:


> Yes, this was the first I ever used this film.
> Most of the films developed in the same batch do look the same as mine.
> 
> I'm pretty sure it was of badly mixed chemicals.



Ned, hi. You are a novice with film but your professor shouldn't be. He should know better, but he blamed lab technician rather. There is nothing in regular b&w chemistry to stain the negative pink. There are staining developers, but are rather not used for teaching purposes and anyway, the stain is brown. Pinkish hue on the negs comes from antyhalation layer and Kodak is using such a type; hard to get rid of. But there is a way if you have to. First, pink does not hamper printing from that negative. Looks like the professor doesn't now that, second is not the technician fault, is his. He didn't test the film before giving it to students and I bet you, that it is the last time you guys use this film. If he gonna get rid with this film it's maybe a mistake a mistake. I had opportunity to shoot Ultrafine Extreme 400 and I didn't encounter pink hue. But Ultrafine Extreme is not any real brand of film, it's Photo Warehouse home brand and can hide anything. If you guys are getting pink hue it means it's a Kodak. I know only 4 films with this hue: Tmax 100 and 400, Kodak TriX and Eastman Double X Negative. And this looks like TriX and TriX is a very good film.
How to get this pink out you already got some advice. Even after neg is dry still you can put it back in fresh fixer and "fix" the "problem"  However I am against prolonged wash, it may lower the sharpness. Rather use a solution of alcohol (could be a rubbing alcohol 50/50 with water) for 1 min and that's it, you done with pink.


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## NedM (Mar 8, 2014)

webestang64 said:


> How long did you fix and how long did you wash? Most BW films if not fixed right or washed long enough (30 min wash if no Hypo clear) will have a color tint to them.



According to our teacher, this was the process of developing film:

Developer: Dependent on the type of film used. In this case, 6-7 minutes for my film, Ultrafine Extreme ASA 400. Inversions every 30 seconds.
Drain developer.
Then Stop Bath for 30 seconds.
Pour stop bath back into container.
Then Fixer for 5 minutes.
Pour fixer back into container.
Then wash for 10 minutes.
Then washed in distilled water. 30 seconds.
Then washed in Photoflow 30 seconds.

That's it. that's the basic process they make us do to develop our film.


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## NedM (Mar 8, 2014)

vintagesnaps said:


> Sounds like the instructor realized there was a mistake made in mixing the chemistry since everybody's film went purple. You could as mentioned scan and edit digitally if you want to use pictures from that roll but for the purposes of the class it sounds like you'll need to shoot the replacement roll they gave you - I imagine the point is to shoot and develop your own film.
> 
> I used to use a shared darkroom at a local university where people in the community could join the art center on campus - for the cost per year to use the equipment and chemistry I would just bring my own paper (and film or previously developed negatives). Either the staff at the art building or student monitors mixed the chemistry and you just poured out what you needed. I don't remember ever having a problem with the chemistry but I could see how that could happen.
> 
> ...



I'm not sure exactly how to scan and edit negatives digitally. I'm assuming it's a bit more easier than it sounds - I'll be sure to look into to it. For our assignment, yes, this was just to demonstrate that we understand the basics of developing film.

In this case, I'm just assuming the chemicals were mixed improperly and exhausted. Since someone in my class had been using TriX film and his negative was ruined by the chemicals.

For this specific class, we have to use strictly B&W ASA 400 film.


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## Light Guru (Mar 8, 2014)

NedM said:


> webestang64 said:
> 
> 
> > How long did you fix and how long did you wash? Most BW films if not fixed right or washed long enough (30 min wash if no Hypo clear) will have a color tint to them.
> ...



I've used some brands of film where 5 minutes of fixing is enough and I've used some where you have to fix for 10 minutes to fully get rid of any purple cast.


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## NedM (Mar 8, 2014)

timor said:


> NedM said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, this was the first I ever used this film.
> ...



I'm not getting any pink hue or color on my negatives, just a slight purple tint and the negative didn't come out as defined but instead a bit see though-ish.
You've shot Ultrafine Extreme 400, before? And you say it's just warehouse home brand and could hid anything? What do you mean? That the film could be anything from Kodak to some other brand name film???

If so, how would I know how long to develop each negative?
How did your negatives come out using this film?


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## Light Guru (Mar 8, 2014)

timor said:


> You are a novice with film but your professor shouldn't be. He should know better, but he blamed lab technician rather.



Exactly my thoughts.


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## timor (Mar 8, 2014)

NedM said:


> According to our teacher, this was the process of developing film:
> 
> Developer: Dependent on the type of film used. In this case, 6-7 minutes for my film, Ultrafine Extreme ASA 400. Inversions every 30 seconds.
> Drain developer.
> ...


Almost OK. Looks 5 min in fix is too short regarding pink, not the fixing of emulsion. and the wash like for classic grain film was is 2-5 min too short, should be done in temperature of 20-22 C (68-71F), no lower. Photoflow, if you have to use that crap, mix with distilled water for max efficiency. Washing just in distilled water and later in flo doesn't make sense. Stains are made by water stone, minerals dissolved in regular water (water dries, minerals stay ).


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## timor (Mar 8, 2014)

OK, I call it hue, but doesn't matter.
Yes, I shoot UE 400 some 3 years ago, now I have UE 100 in my bulk loader. Excellent film and the price is very good.
I didn't see any purple then, now you guys encountered it. good sign I am saying.
Home brand means, that the company is selling film they didn't make under fake name, without revealing, who is the real film maker. 
Freestyle: (Home | Freestyle Photographic Supplies) home brand is Arista. Currently they sell Kodak TriX and FOMA films under that brand. Usually for less, than the real brand price on the market. Before that they were selling Agfa 100 and 400 under Arista name.
Photo Warehouse is another distributor with Ultrafine brand name.
World of film is tricky. Ask questions, we are practitioners.


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## Joxby (Mar 9, 2014)

Light Guru said:


> Joxby said:
> 
> 
> > If there was a developing or fixer fault, the "problem" would be much more profound than a purple tint.
> ...




Well its all supposition really, we can only post an opinion detailing what we think is most likely.

My guess is they're just tinted and will print/scan just fine, poorly developed, poorly fixed or both, won't.


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## unpopular (Mar 9, 2014)

Light Guru said:


> unpopular said:
> 
> 
> > Provided that this is a true b/w film, I personally cannot think of any situation that would cause a uniform purple stain resulting from improperly mixed chemistry. I could be completely wrong, but I just don't see how it's possible.
> ...



Ahh yes, this is right. I was thinking developer - it's been a while since I processed film. Dilute fix would certainly cause this, and will eventually lead to fog. Print now while you can!


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## Josh66 (Mar 9, 2014)

unpopular said:


> Light Guru said:
> 
> 
> > unpopular said:
> ...


And re-fix with fresh chemicals.


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## vintagesnaps (Mar 10, 2014)

The OP seems to have already figured out that the chemistry that day in the darkroom which the students use wasn't mixed properly - all of their negatives were a purple tint. They were all provided with another roll of film to go shoot and start over... 

I've used a shared darkroom which had students that would come in and mix and set up the chemistry for the evening after that day's classes. So we all used whatever was set up by whatever staff person or student monitor took care of it on any given day. In this case I don't know if they need to review their procedures with their student monitors or just chalk it up to human error - in a teaching darkroom where students are still learning.

If you want to try to keep any of the photos from the roll that was damaged you could look at the negatives on a light box and see if any would be worth trying to salvage. You could try a print from the negatives I suppose, not seeing them I don't know if the condition is good enough for that to be an option. If they're something you want to try and save then you could look into either scanning or having the negatives scanned. Is there someplace at or around the campus that provides access to a scanner or offers that service? If you don't know try asking the professor or your classmates.  

I'd either get them scanned and save them for later (even if making adjustments to digital copies isn't an option right now it might be later on), or if the new roll turns out better maybe you won't want to save and use any from the first roll, especially if it was all shot around campus and you could go reshoot. There are places that offer restoration but it seems like you'll need to decide if what's on that roll is worth the time and trouble and expense of saving or restoring or if it's better to go ahead with your assignment and not worry about the first roll.


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## timor (Mar 10, 2014)

vintagesnaps said:


> The OP seems to have already figured out that the chemistry that day in the darkroom which the students use wasn't mixed properly - all of their negatives were a purple tint. They were all provided with another roll of film to go shoot and start over...


What are you talking about, dear lady ? Negative was not damaged and there was not much wrong with chemicals. Mister professor didn't release, that this particular film needs longer fixing. That's all. BTW this pink hue is not an obstacle to print it correctly. And anyway, how you can mix incorrectly premixed chemicals ? Do you suspect over there they are mixing from components ? Even so, that will not cause the film to go pink. Pink is from undissolved antyhalation layer. It is dissolved in longer fix or in alcohol.


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## NedM (Mar 14, 2014)

Update:

So it was the chemicals and they were mixed improperly!

I was able to develop a very clear and crisp negative today and make a great contact sheet!


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## Josh66 (Mar 14, 2014)

Good news!


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