# New toys arrived.. stands/umbrellas



## usayit (Jul 25, 2008)

I've never really been a "strobist" even though I use flash frequently (on camera and off camera held by hand) to get the photo I want.  My focus has always been in composition and exposure  rather than being creative with light.  So I wanted to try it out but on a very shallow budget.  Did a lot of research and discovered that $$ doesn't go very far in terms of quality... local camera shop selection of "kits" for a shallow budget is complete crap.. to put it lightly.  Wobbly stands, small umbrellas... 

After some research this is what I ended up with:







Two Lumopro air cushioned stands
One Silvered lined umbrella
One Soft white with removable back umbrella
Two Umbrella brackets
1 Cactus V2s transmitter
2 Cactus V2s receivers. 
2 PC to hotshoe adapters.
Two Sunpak 422D

With the exception of the Sunpak flashes the kit cost about $230 (incl shipping).  The flashes were purchased from a camera swap for about $20 each.    I just got it yesterday and took a few test shots of stuff around the house.  

I am VERY surprised with the quality of the stands and umbrellas given their low price.  The stands blow away (in terms of quality) anything I saw locally in the same price range.  They are taller and more stable than the common Bogen 001B equivalents even though they are longer when collapsed.  The main support and legs are tubes rather than cheaper pressed bent metal.  They are also air cushioned which is a nice feature as well.

The Umbrellas are equal in quality.  They are nice 43 inchers and double fold down to 15.  The silver one works really nicely with the relatively lower powered flash packs.

The cactus units are not at all impressive looking BUT they do work.  In the short time I used them, they triggered reliably.  I was shooting about 15 feet away from them and they still triggered.  They do have a hotshoe built-in but the make for an unstable perch for your heavier flash packs.  I suspect that the cheap plastic bodies wouldn't hold up well over to the weight of an attached flash pack.  As such, I highly recommend purchasing PC to Hotshoe adapters and hanging the cactus units to the side instead (connected via their external PC connector).  

The Sunpak 422D have been in my possession for a while now.... used with my rangefinders and older cameras.  The "D" version have lower trigger voltages and I like the power adjustment slider on the back.   Makes for adjusting the flash from FULL to 1/16th power quick.  The only issue is that they don't have a zoom head.

The "kit" was purchased from MPEX.com with the advice read from www.strobist.com.  I highly recommend both sites.  Shipping was quick and easy via ground.  

Just sharing my new purchase for those considering the same path.  I'm hoping to try them out a bit in a few days.. assuming I can get time off and a subject (wife is camera shy and my kid moves too much.. hehehe lol).  The only thing missing is a bag.   I thought I can use my duffel bag but I didn't realize that the stands are too long to fit.  oh well..  I'll probably through a strap sling them over my shoulder.


----------



## Bifurcator (Jul 25, 2008)

Looks like a bunch of fun man! Congrats!  I can't wait to see some of the images you create with this!


----------



## Big Mike (Jul 25, 2008)

Nice!

Have fun with that stuff.


----------



## icassell (Jul 25, 2008)

Have fun and post lots of pix.  I second your comment about strobist -- I love that site.  Anyone who hasn't been through the tutorials there is really missing something in their lighting education.


----------



## NateS (Jul 25, 2008)

Sweet purchase.  I need to get a lightstand and umbrella myself.  I do the same as you with holding my stofen diffused flash where I need it or set it on the ground with the little stand it came with.  

Icassell I agree, Strobist is awesome and you can get information overload if you're not careful.


----------



## Dao (Jul 25, 2008)

Cool!!  Look forward to see some works from you.  And this is something I would like to get into later after I have more experience and of course, the money.   And I was really amazed by those creative lightning controls.  I mean how a powerful off camera flash can do to a photo.  Even in outdoor daylight situation.


----------



## icassell (Jul 25, 2008)

I have a question (which is part of strobist I haven't read yet, so I apologize).  What is the advantage of the radio transmitter system over a regular optically driven slave-flash?  I use a Vivitar 283 as a slave with a photodiode trigger on it -- alot cheaper than the radio technique.


----------



## Big Mike (Jul 25, 2008)

> I have a question (which is part of strobist I haven't read yet, so I apologize). What is the advantage of the radio transmitter system over a regular optically driven slave-flash? I use a Vivitar 283 as a slave with a photodiode trigger on it -- alot cheaper than the radio technique.


Plenty of advantages.  Firstly, an optical trigger works well in smaller rooms because the light can bouce around.  In larger spaces or outdoors, you would probaly need direct line of site from the master flash to the slave.  Also, when outdoors, the slave's ability to read the flash is reduced (or so I hear).  In bright sun, it's supposed to be very hard.
Also, an optical slave trigger is susceptible to any flash that goes off.  So it works when it's only you shooting, but other people's cameras/flashes can also set off your slave.

A radio system doesn't need line of site and the range is much higher.  The top end Pocket Wizards have a range of 1600 feet, the cheap ones don't work that well but can be surprisingly good.
With a radio system, you don't need a master flash.  With an optical system, you obviously need fire a master, which is probably on the camera.  What if you don't want any light coming from the camera's angle?  

You could combine the two, and fire your master flash, off camera with a radio trigger, then use optical triggers for other lights.


----------



## icassell (Jul 25, 2008)

Big Mike said:


> Plenty of advantages.  Firstly, an optical trigger works well in smaller rooms because the light can bouce around.  In larger spaces or outdoors, you would probaly need direct line of site from the master flash to the slave.  Also, when outdoors, the slave's ability to read the flash is reduced (or so I hear).  In bright sun, it's supposed to be very hard.
> Also, an optical slave trigger is susceptible to any flash that goes off.  So it works when it's only you shooting, but other people's cameras/flashes can also set off your slave.
> 
> A radio system doesn't need line of site and the range is much higher.  The top end Pocket Wizards have a range of 1600 feet, the cheap ones don't work that well but can be surprisingly good.
> ...




Gotcha!  Makes perfect sense.  No problem with these direct orders from Hong Kong?


----------



## usayit (Jul 25, 2008)

icassell said:


> Gotcha!  Makes perfect sense.  No problem with these direct orders from Hong Kong?



MPEX.com seems to be a reseller of these Cactus V2s for the similar price you'll find on ebay.  MPEX is based in the U.S.  No problems with my order but I have seen reports of MPEX being out of stock.  No surprise given that there are no other low cost alternatives to radio triggers.

The weathe ris suppose to be nice this weekend ... sucks that i'm working.


----------



## icassell (Jul 25, 2008)

usayit said:


> MPEX.com seems to be a reseller of these Cactus V2s for the similar price you'll find on ebay.  MPEX is based in the U.S.  No problems with my order but I have seen reports of MPEX being out of stock.  No surprise given that there are no other low cost alternatives to radio triggers.
> 
> The weathe ris suppose to be nice this weekend ... sucks that i'm working.



Thanks!  Didn't know them ...


----------



## RyanLilly (Jul 25, 2008)

Usayit, thanks for the brief review on quality. It's really hard to tell from a photo online how sturdy something is. Knowing you experience and some of the high end stuff that you have, I think you probably have reasonably high standards for quality, so I would feel pretty confident in purchasing some of this equipment based on your opinion.


----------



## usayit (Jul 27, 2008)

So after dinner, I had a little time to experiment.  One flash shot through the white umbrella (removed black backing).  My wife was nice enough to model... actually she was just enjoying a muffin while watching TV.  The Cactus wireless flash triggers worked flawlessly but I wasn't working from long distances.   The umbrella was shot from about 10 feet away, high, to my right.  I was getting some light "leaking" over the top of the umbrella due to the high positioning of the flash, so I reposition the flash like this:






Just a few quick shots:
















So far I'm happy with the set... especially for the budget I allowed.  Way better than single flash units and more controlled than just spilling the light all over my ceiling.  Definitely lots to learn.


----------



## Bifurcator (Jul 27, 2008)

Very nice lighting dude!  Rock-on!


----------



## usayit (Jul 27, 2008)

Thanks!!  I know they are just basic lighting examples but you gotta start somewhere.  I hope to be more creative with them as I learn.


----------



## tinfish (Jul 27, 2008)

Congrats on the setup.  I have a very similiar setup including the V2's and have been very happy.  With the new toys you will find yourself getting more and more creative.  Enjoy!


----------



## zapman29 (Jul 28, 2008)

Sounds nice i bought one for alot more


----------



## K_Pugh (Jul 28, 2008)

Good stuff there! Good info for folk wanting to learn on a budget as reading other sites etc can seem like everything costs a fortune! 

Looks like you're getting some nice light there as well. It doesn't have to cost a fortune to get good results.


----------



## usayit (Aug 7, 2008)

So a bit more practice with the flashes and umbrellas to balance ambient.  very basic stuff with a single umbrella.  I am very pleased with the outcome... noticeably better than flash fill on my camera or even off on a cord at arms length.  Much easier than I thought to bring to fill the shadows and control the highlights in the background.  

Cons:
* Power.. Power.. Power.  More than enough for small area but large groups would probably need more.  Both lights could maybe do it for medium sized group.  I shot at high noon in partially shaded areas.  This was on purpose to practice balancing ambient with strong highlights and dark shadows.  I was going between 1/2 power to full on a single set to properly bring the shadows up and be aware of subject distance.  Case in point, the last photo (on the red scooter) was after we wandered pretty far from the light.  I had to open the aperture a couple stops which started to blow out the highlights in the grass.  
* Recycle time.  I had to keep reminding my self to make each frame count as it would be a few seconds before I can get another flash. 
* Batteries.  Improved by radio shack rigging D-sized battery cells to my flashes.  Not too bad though...  


Pros:
* Freakin portable... I had to chase my son around with the umbrella/flash/stand and quickly relocate.  Essentially "tossed" it around shot more... and tossed it again.  
* Easy to pack... Carrying both sets is no more difficult than carrying a full size tripod.
* Fun... there's that aspect of accomplishing a lot with a bargain.
* A lot easier to setup than I thought.
* More natural looking than previous sessions with on-camera fill.  Softer light more appealing light than bare flashes with some sort of diffuser (lumniquest in my case).  
* No wires.  Cactus V2s performed flawlessly.  Would like to have an off switch on the transmitter.  Scared another photographer who was taking a closer look at my light while I went off to chase my son.  Snapped a photo while my son was running away and practically blinded the other photog...  hehehe 

Overall, I am really enjoying the lights and I can see the appeal of being a "Strobist" per say.  I can honestly say that the kit I put together has very high bang-for-buck value and definitely can recommend it.  If you can work within the limitations of the "Cons" above, you can do a lot with this kit and let the creativity flow.    I also can more clearly understand the advantages of using high power strobes... especially for large groups.. professional assignments and studio. but honestly... this is probably more than I need for quite a while.  Most amateurs could benefit from this basic setup.


----------



## John_05 (Sep 16, 2008)

Thanks for all the info about the stuff you bought.  It was very helpful to me in making my decision on what to get.

I just have 1 question.  Do the umbrella brackets come with a 3/8&#8221; and 1/4&#8221;-20 threaded female mount insert like in this photo?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v348/john13901/29d3802d.jpg


----------



## usayit (Sep 16, 2008)

Yes... it includes the same threaded brass insert.  The ones I have in my kit are Lumopro LP632.


----------



## John_05 (Sep 17, 2008)

usayit said:


> Yes... it includes the same threaded brass insert.  The ones I have in my kit are Lumopro LP632.




Excellent!

Thank you.  :thumbup:


----------



## Warren_G (Sep 19, 2008)

I am just getting into setting up a lighting setup as well, and now my only dilemma is radio triggers. I am tempted to try to cactus, or even the Smith-Victor ones on amazon, but I am worried that I am going to want pocket wizards anyway. I am ordering a couple vivitar 285HVs and want to have a reliable trigger system, although I cant see myself needing a lot of range. Are the bad reviews on these cheaper triggers really as bad as they sound, or are they just a small number of people getting duds or expecting them to work perfectly in all situations all the time? 

So far, I have 2 10' air lift stands from adorama, 2 43" umbrellas with removable backs, flash/umbrella mounting heads, as well as a 430ex and a 580ex speedlight. I will likely add a small boom, and maybe a softbox, but the triggers are a major part of the expense so I dont want to buy more than once.


----------



## usayit (Sep 19, 2008)

Mine have yet to miss a trigger but then again I am still learning and definitely not putting them through the rigors of professional use.  Also, range should not be too much of an issue... remember you are dealing with relatively low powered flashes not high powered strobes. 

Here me out on this...

1) It is silly to spend big bucks on a pocket wizards versus less expensive options if you are not a professional and still learning.  We are not talking about $1000's per hour wasted on people/equipment/models if they mistrigger or fail.  If your paycheck/reputation as a professional is on the line, by all means... buy the professional triggers.
2) The ol'argument that "I might need something better in the future" is driven purely by G.A.S. and not logic.  You can always need something better in the future....  Basically can argue that I should buy a Ferrari over a Toyota just in case I end up on a track.  Just be honest with yourself and understand you WANT those more expensive equipment.  Then proceed to purchase them with that in mind... don't fool yourself.
3) The future use and growth is a BIG IF.  You can either have the pocket wizards on a shelf collecting dust or you end up with the cheap triggers on a shelf after they served their educational purpose and purchase expensive triggers.  That's SEVERAL HUNDRED $$s collecting dust OR what $50 (two slaves/one trans) collecting dust.  Which makes any sense?
4) Pocket wizards and Cactus V2s do the EXACT same purpose.  One just does it better.  You will learn no more with the pocket wizards than with the V2s in terms of lighting.  YOu want to put money where it counts... PUT IT IN THE STROBES.  The biggest disadvantage to the "strobist" kit is the lack of power.  If you have available $$$, put it where it counts.... get more power.  A person can achieve a lot more using real strobes with trigger wires running on the ground than a person with nice radio triggers with small flashes.

Me.... I shoot with some of the nicest cameras and lenses (more than the value of my 2 cars).  Why?? I know what I like and I have experience to push them.  I enjoy them.  As for lighting, I spent a measly $270 bucks..  Why?  They are an investment to learn and I have no clue as to what I like in a lighting kit.  That knowledge is only acquired after some practice.  

Sorry for the long post......  just I see so many threads started asking "If I should get the better one.. just in case".


----------



## usayit (Sep 19, 2008)

The other middle ground option to consider is cyber syncs from alien bees.  They are probably better built than cactus and not as expensive as pocket wizards.


----------



## Sw1tchFX (Sep 20, 2008)

Oh yeah, i'm telling ya, these small pocket flashes are the way to go!

I use them all the time when i'm shooting people on location, you can take them anywhere and when there's enough power, make them look like anything! none of these were done in the studio


----------



## Bifurcator (Sep 20, 2008)

Nice rim lighting on that 1st one!  That's 2 lights right?

The pop-flash during the long exposure on the 2nd one is pretty awesome too.


----------



## JerryPH (Sep 20, 2008)

You have to love "affordable" kits.  I am up to 6 lightstands and several 120V and battery powered strobes.  Just tons of fun!










​ 



​ 




Even just playing around without any specific goals and you can have a lot of fun!  I took these just on a whim while cleaning my equipment a little while ago.​


----------



## JerryPH (Sep 20, 2008)

icassell said:


> Gotcha!  Makes perfect sense.  No problem with these direct orders from Hong Kong?



That's where mine came from.  Mine were from Gadget Infinity and I also right away modded the transmitter so that the range went from 30 feet to over 350 feet.

Amazing what a little wire and a few seconds of soldering did for me! 















I'm sure I could have gone further, but I simply ran out of space or trespassed on to someone's front yard to get a few more feet.  A little more info HERE.


----------



## plentygood (Sep 20, 2008)

usayit said:


> The other middle ground option to consider is cyber syncs from alien bees. They are probably better built than cactus and not as expensive as pocket wizards.


 
I don't get why nobody ever mentions Skyports.  Everything I have seen about them points that they are almost as good as Pocket Wizards (let's be honest, most people will never need to use the PW's full potential) at half the price.


----------



## usayit (Sep 21, 2008)

Actually... cyber syncs also rarely get mentioned as well... (reason why I decided to mention them)

My thinking is....

If hobby/amateur, you'll most likely go with the Cactus V2s.. They are so darn cheap you might as well.
If professional or advanced user, you'll most likely spend the money and get pocket wizards. 

Anything in the middle, which include cyber syncs and skyports, rarely gets attention because they are neither cheap nor as established as pocket wizards.  The market is smaller.

Same reason why the high P&S market doesn't gets little attention.  Neither cheap (as P&S) nor as good as DSLRs.  So the market is small and they don't get attention.


----------



## JerryPH (Sep 21, 2008)

USAYIT, are you considering to test out the trigger range increase mod on your setup at all?  One thing that I would suggest, is that unless you can find the specific batteries for the receivers for a REALLY cheap price, to consider doing the battery mod for the receivers.  Then all you need are commonly available AA batteries.  I did that too.  These 2 mods are ridiculously easy to do and add a LOT to the functionality of the units.  

Oh, one other thing that I found as a weak point with the Cactus V2s receivers is that their design, when you place them on a light stand and then a strobe on top of the receivers, is a little wobbly.  I decided to get some hot-shoe attachments with sync patch plug ins and then just hang the receivers off the side of the lightstand and connect the flash to the adapter and use small sync cables to attach my strobe to the receiver.

The flash sits closer to the center of the umbrella and its much more solid for the strobe.  It looks like this (done with the on camera flash... lol):






I got the adapters and cables from flashzebra.com and am very happy with the setup now.​


----------



## usayit (Sep 21, 2008)

Yup.. already done.    :thumbup:

You can see the PC-hotshoe adapter in the photo at the beginning of this thread.  

But..  I still found that the best way to get the flash as close to the center of the umbrella is to mount them like this:

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL262/1501137/15679162/327419263.jpg


I have also modified my flashes (Sunpak 422D's) to 4 D's Cell battery packs.  Helps keep the flashes going...


----------



## Village Idiot (Sep 22, 2008)

usayit said:


> Actually... cyber syncs also rarely get mentioned as well... (reason why I decided to mention them)
> 
> My thinking is....
> 
> ...


 
It's just that there's not enough discussion about off camera lighting on this board for them to get mentioned a lot. If you were a member of POTN or the strobist forum you would see that Skyports and Cyber Syncs get mentioned all the time and that other versions between the Cyber Synce and Cactus's price range rarely get mentioned.


----------



## Warren_G (Sep 25, 2008)

Ok, I am gonna take the plunge and order the Cactus V2s. I am actually going to get the Vivitar portrait combo off the gadgetinfinity site with the 2 285HVs, 2 V2s recievers, and the stroboframe (even though I already have one) At $249, this kit should get me fully set up as I have stands, umbrellas, etc already.


----------



## roadkill (Jan 23, 2009)

Big poppa, thanks for the heads up on that kit.  Looks perfect for a first one.


----------



## JerryPH (Jan 23, 2009)

usayit said:


> Yup.. already done.    :thumbup:


See a difference in distance?  How far over 30 feet have you tried?



usayit said:


> But..  I still found that the best way to get the flash as close to the center of the umbrella is to mount them like this:
> http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL262/1501137/15679162/327419263.jpg


The Nikon Sb-600/800's have a nice 6 degree downward bend that is PERFECT for centering the flash.  Honestly though, even if it was off a little, it makes zero difference in a shot.  You want the flash to fill the entire umbrella as much as possible and most flashes can do that even if they are off a couple of degrees away from dead center.


----------



## RyanLilly (Jan 23, 2009)

I just did the antenna mod a few weeks ago, and I was able to get about 150' before I ran out of room in the warehouse, and they still triggered every time. For batteries I might mount the battery holder and the triggers in another case so everything is enclosed. Also thinking about adding a couple different jacks, because I always have plenty of audio and video cables, and the connectors are much more durable than pc cords.


----------



## keith204 (Jan 23, 2009)

Neat to hear you had success modding those triggers - I have some in a bucket that I never used much, because if I was outside, and a light was to my right and I was shooting vertically, the signal wasn't strong enough to work around the camera being in between the transmitter/receiver.  Things like this hacked me off.  Seeing they can be modded is inspiring.

And you're right...Skyports are the mid-range one that doesn't get mentioned.  I have the skyports and they haven't let me down.  The ability to group is nice, and same with the price.


----------



## giorgio (Feb 2, 2009)

Hi

Nice setup, seems to be a lot to what I need, maybe with an aditional 3rd. strobe.

(This is addressed to anyone who would like to give some advice, and thank you in advance...).

I already have an SB600 strobe, and want to setup a portable or On Site lighting kit with 2 more affordable strobes. (for a total of 3 light sources).
I intend to shoot on my customer's business locations(office facilities and portraits). Photography not being my main service, these are webdesign customers who need photos for their Company profile.


These questions are more like giving the idea of my concerns, I might as well just need advice about what kind of affordable Strobes aproach do I take when having already a TTL SB600 and wanting to buy 2 more.


(Even though I have an SB600 strobe I think my questions could apply to any TTL speedlights I guess.)


I plan to use Cactus receivers.
The (Cactus) receivers say my SB600 strobe is compatible, but, the SB600 is already wireless and supossedly triggered by my Nikon D80 on commander mode.

1) Am I going to need a receiver for the SB600 if I'm going to use them for the, say, other 2 non TTLs Vivitars?
2) If a receiver for the SB600 is not needed, would it still be better to use all 3 strobes with receivers?
3) If so, is my SLR(Nikon D80), with the transmitter already mounted, able to trigger the SB600 overrinding its built in wireless capabilities?, no conflict being force triggered both ways?
4) Are its TTL features still active when using it with the receiver?
5) More so, am I going to need anyway its TTL functions considering I'm using it with other non TTL strobes on my mini "portable, Onsite" lighting studio?
6) If for better lighting results... I supose I need the strobe's power levels to be adjustable(?), does this means manual mode? which in turn is.. non TTL?.
7) I'm defenetly a newbie and plan to study the lighting stuff, but do we really need TTL Strobes when using them on a lighting setup??
8) Are these photoshootings with more than one strobe usually on Non TTL mode?, if so, we could say there's no need to features like TTL besides having a versatil Strobe(feature adjustable).?

10) Do the Vivitars give good cost/benefits
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00004TVSP/ref=ord_cart_shr?_encoding=UTF8&m=A3SPLR0MSOYZ8O&v=glance"]Amazon.com: Vivitar 285HV Auto Professional Flash: Ace Photo Digital[/ame]
or the cheap strobes like Digital Concepts 418-AF Digital Bounce Slave Flash (30usd) offer almost equal enough power or options?
418AF Digital Concepts 418-AF Digital Bounce Slave Flash with Flash Bracket


 11) Gadget Infinity ships from Asia?
 12)  Does USA customs charges me to receive the package from Asia?. I live in Mexico but pick up the packages at a friend's house in USA, so I need to see where would be better to ship it. 

BTW  I can't see Gadget Infinity's shipping costs, it might as well not be cost efective at the end ha!.

Thank you very much

Giorgio


----------



## usayit (Feb 2, 2009)

giorgio said:


> The (Cactus) receivers say my SB600 strobe is compatible, but, the SB600 is already wireless and supossedly triggered by my Nikon D80 on commander mode.



The wireless via the commander mode is a different system fromt he Cactus.  Cactus simply allows for offshoe flashes just like you would a single pin cord but wirelessly over RF.

1-3) I'd stick with one or the other rather than mixing the two systems.  Remember, there is no intelligence with remote triggers... they just trigger the flash.  Just like in the old days with single pin cords.  

4) No.  You will need manually determine exposure and shoot manually.  

5) Don't understand the question.

6) Manual mode only...  the flashes you'll want to use should have  adjustable power.  Mine are  full to 1/16th. 

7) No.  If you really want to use TTL then you'll have to look at other (more expensive) options.  

8) TTL?  Use flash meter.

10)  The vivitars 285HV are one of the oldest and most successful running flashes in history.  THere is a reason why they are heavily recommended.. and no... they are not TTL.  Good balance of power, cycle time, portability, and features.

Cheap strobe kits might work for you BUT you get what you pay for..... Real studio strobes are NOT cheap

 11)  MPEX.com is their US distributer.


12) Just order fro MPEX.com.  Or call Gadget I and ask.


----------



## giorgio (Feb 2, 2009)

Thank you much Usayit

very very helful

I'll check it out

Giorgio


----------

