# How come film lights are so pricey?



## MixedOutput (Mar 26, 2016)

I've wanted a film light for my dslr camera for some basic filming and photographing. And it seems to me that film lights are just led lights, which leads me to the question, how come they are so darn expensive? I know they vary widely in price but still I'm not quite sure what you get in the high end part for that much more $$.

I eventually made my own video light that can be seen here:




and I even included light color temperature adjustment for a fraction of the price of commercially manufactured one.

I was inspired by diy-perks video where he makes a much bigger one and that also for a fraction of the price.





can someone just enlighten me on what you actually pay for when you spend > $100 on camera light equipment that seemly just output light?


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## 480sparky (Mar 26, 2016)

MixedOutput said:


> ......
> can someone just enlighten me on what you actually pay for when you spend > $100 on camera light equipment that seemly just output light?




*Labor*
Wages
Salaries
Temp. help wages

*Employee Benefits*
Vacation Pay
Holiday Pay
Uniforms
Uniform Maintenance
Unemployment
Bonuses
Incentives
Retirement Plan

*Building*
Warehouse Space
Trash Removal
Lawn Care
Snow removal
Upkeep & Repairs

*Office Expenses*
Computers
Stationary
Copy machine
Fax machine
Forms
Printing
Software
Office Equipment
Computer maintenance
Files
Postage
Office Supplies

*IT*
Internet service
Email accounts
Web site
-Initial creation
-Updating
-Maintenance

*Taxes*
Property Taxes
Tangible Taxes
Pay Roll Taxes
Income Taxes
Sales Tax

*Training*
Management Training
Office Training
In-House Training
Tech Training
Mfg. Training
Training Equipment
Safety Training
Update classes
License testing
OSHA compliance

*Insurance*
Building Insurance
Liability Insurance
Employee Insurance
Life Insurance
Business Insurance
Workers Comp.

*Utilities*
Gas
Electricity
Telephone / Fax lines
Internet Service
Toll Calls
Telephones
Pagers/Cell Phones

*Vehicles*
Vehicle Maintenance
Fuel
Truck Signs / lettering / vinyl
Tires

*Financial*
Accounting
Loans
Tax Preparation
Interest
30+ Day Receivables
Bank Charges

*Travel*
Hotel
Meals
Airline / vehicle

*Tools*
Company Tools
Safety Equipment
Ladders
2-way Radios
Test Equipment
Replacement Parts
Parts Storage
Damages
Tool Replacement
Job site storage

*Legal *
Legal advice
Law Suits
Incorporation / LLC fees

*Advertising*
Marketing
Business cards
Signs
Radio / TV
Newspaper
Flyers / brochures
Material Purchases
Inventory

*Misc.*
Trips to Supply House
Theft
Uncollected Money
Collection fees
Unbillable Hours
Commissions
Warranty work
Shortages
Bad Checks
Delivery
Credit Card Sales
Drug Testing


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## petrochemist (Mar 26, 2016)

480sparky said:


> *Labor*... <snip>



While these are valid costs, they should generally be a much lower proportion of unit costs, especially as mass produced units can normally buy raw materials at SIGNIFCANTLY lower cost than DIY projects.


IMO a significant part of the price extra is profit. Perhaps trying to maximize the takings before people find out how easy they are to make (or until local photostores have stocked up on cheap Chinese units).


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## 480sparky (Mar 26, 2016)

petrochemist said:


> While these are valid costs, they should generally be a much lower proportion of unit costs, especially as mass produced units can normally buy raw materials at SIGNIFCANTLY lower cost than DIY projects.



But I'll get you a dollar the OP didn't consider ANY of them when calculating the *true* 'cost' of his DIY lights.



petrochemist said:


> IMO a significant part of the price extra is profit. Perhaps trying to maximize the takings before people find out how easy they are to make (or until local photostores have stocked up on cheap Chinese units).



And without profit, any company will eventually fold.


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## KmH (Mar 26, 2016)

Including not considering a wage/salary for the OP, the cost of his soldering iron, electricity to heat the soldering iron and power the lights/heat/AC in his shop, a portion of the cost of the pliers he used to strip insulation off the wires, and yada, yada, yada.


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## MixedOutput (Mar 26, 2016)

480sparky said:


> But I'll get you a dollar the OP didn't consider ANY of them when calculating the *true* 'cost' of his DIY lights.


I'm well aware of the facts that companies have expenses to pay. I don't think you really understand what I meant. What I'm trying to say is that film lights don't seem that technically advanced to me to really justify the prices they charge, considering the fact that they are basically just led lights on a panel with a driver circuit. So I was asking whether they have special features that I'm missing that justify their high cost or if it might be a case of premium branding to increase profit margins.

I feel like the only way i can see any justification to these prices are that either the market for film light is so small they haven't streamlined the process enough and is basically assembling everything by hand or they have such a quality standard that they basically use gold instead of copper for their pcbs.


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## calamityjane (Mar 26, 2016)

MixedOutput said:


> I've wanted a film light for my dslr camera for some basic filming and photographing. And it seems to me that film lights are just led lights, which leads me to the question, how come they are so darn expensive? I know they vary widely in price but still I'm not quite sure what you get in the high end part for that much more $$.
> 
> I eventually made my own film light that can be seen here:
> 
> ...


What do you mean by 'film light'?


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## MixedOutput (Mar 27, 2016)

calamityjane said:


> MixedOutput said:
> 
> 
> > I've wanted a film light for my dslr camera for some basic filming and photographing. And it seems to me that film lights are just led lights, which leads me to the question, how come they are so darn expensive? I know they vary widely in price but still I'm not quite sure what you get in the high end part for that much more $$.
> ...


I mean video light


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## calamityjane (Mar 27, 2016)

It's called 'continuous' lighting (as opposed to 'flash')


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## MixedOutput (Mar 27, 2016)

calamityjane said:


> It's called 'continuous' lighting (as opposed to 'flash')


Did not know that. 
Thanks!


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## robbins.photo (Mar 27, 2016)

Also keep in mind when you build something for yourself you don't need to factor in concerns over safety or aesthetics.

It doesn't have to be pretty, and you don't have to worry about getting sued if someone cuts themselves, or takes it into the bathtub with them, etc.

There are lots of such concerns when you start manufacturing something for sale.  

Sent from my N9518 using Tapatalk


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## 480sparky (Mar 27, 2016)

MixedOutput said:


> 480sparky said:
> 
> 
> > But I'll get you a dollar the OP didn't consider ANY of them when calculating the *true* 'cost' of his DIY lights.
> ...



Well, tell ya what then:  You've obviously found a major flaw in the business model of all the major manufacturers.  *Exploit it*. Go into production yourself and start cranking out your own brand of lights.  

Egads, man... you're sitting on a gold mine!  Get your shovel out and start digging!


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## 480sparky (Mar 27, 2016)

To give you an idea of where I'm coming from, I use the story of Joe Sixpack, who just happens to be in the same trade as I am:


Years ago, Joe Sixpack got a job as a helper for Fly-By-Night Electric. He started out working with a journeyman wiring houses for Cut Corners Construction. Joe turned out to be a pretty good electrician, learning fast and working hard. As the years went by, Joe got pretty good at wiring houses. Soon, he was running the jobs himself, and had his own helper.

Then recently, Joe got to thinking. "Fly-By-Night charges Cut Corners ten grand to wire a house. I know I get paid about $1500, and my helper gets $1000. I know the material costs around $2500.......... so that means the boss is making five thousand just sitting at the office endorsing checks!"

So Joe decides to strike out on his own. "Man, this'll be great! I'll charge just $7000 to wire the houses, and with only $2500 in material, I'll pocket $4500 for each house I do....... Jeez, that's more than three times what I was making when 'I was working for the man'!"

So Joe hangs out his shingle. He doesn't have any health insurance, thinking he'll get that later when things really get started. Suddenly, he realizes he needs to be licensed. So he takes the test, and spends more money for the test and license. He also doesn't understand that driving his own truck costs money, both in gas, repairs, insurance, etc.

All fired up, he gets his first job for Cut Corners. Right from the start, Cut Corners wants a current liability insurance certificate. So Joe forks out $3000 for insurance. A few weeks later, he gets a letter from the state saying he's not a registered contractor. So another $600 is spent. Oh, yea, the city says they need $1250 for a permit.

A few days into the first job, Cut Corners says they need temporary power. Joe didn't figure the cost of a temp pole into the job, but he builds one and gets it hooked up. Joe finds out he needs more than a 3/8" drill and 4-foot stepladder. So he goes out and buys more cords and a couple ladders. Every time Joe needs material or another tool, he'd drive down to Home Depot and whip out the plastic. Pretty soon, he realizes he's a couple days behind schedule. Why? He's working alone and doesn't have his old helper with him.

So Joe starts working 12-hours days, and a couple Saturdays as well. He skips his daughter's dance recital, and misses his son's Little League game. He comes home dirty, tired and grouchy, which cause his family to stay away from him.

By the time the house is roughed in, his credit card is maxed out and Joe needs to borrow money from his parents. "Just until I get this job done, then I'll be rolling in dough" he tells them. He borrows even more money just to buy the material he needs to trim the house. By this time, he has alienated his family and taken his credit rating down below 400.

And the sad truth is, by the time job is done, he's been paid only $7000 and has spent $14000 just to 'be in business'. So he tells Cut Corners the next job will be $8500, thinking he can 'make it up' on the future work. But even that 'extra' $1500 'from the next job' won't cover his $7000 shortfall. Besides, Cut Corners won't hire him again because Joe caused them to get behind on their schedule. And to add insult to injury, they found someone else to do the job for less.

Dejected, Joe goes home, only to find a letter from the IRS saying they want $3250 for the income tax Joe owes from that job. The state also wants $675 for sales tax. All the 'profit' Joe thought he was going to make went to pay his bills, leaving nothing to pay his parents back with.




And who did Cut Corners hire to wire their next house? Joe's old helper from Fly-By-Night!


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## Derrel (Mar 27, 2016)

Film lights often appeal to people who are involved for-profit ventures, involved in productions that have fairly* substantial production budgets* for the things used in those productions. Much film lighting gear is so expensive that only very large, affluent production companies can afford to buy it for their own use; as in many things used in professional trades, a large percentage of the hardware is so expensive that MOST of the items are purchased by rental outfits, which can rent the stuff at rates that allow them to spread the cost of the items out among many end-users. In this type of a scenario, a HIGH retail price is actually of huge benefit to the rental houses: by keeping the prices VERY high, it legitimizes items as "pro" tools, and it keeps the vast majority of people from being able to buy the items, thus driving the rental business.

Same thing on exotic cinema lenses and $10,000 400/2.8 and longer super-telephoto lenses: these exotic lenses are in great percentages, sold to RENTAL houses. There are many tools that are better rented than bought outright. Specialty tools, ones which have almost no applicability to non-industry repurposing or alternate or off-list use, often have very limited sales volumes, and so the prices are typically very high.

A month or so ago, I watched the winning entry in the DedoLight cinema lighting tutorial contest, in which the presenter showed how he would light three different scenes in a film production. One scene has about $14,000 worth of lights. At retail, one set of three DedoLight units was about $6,899 at a big NYC retailer. WHile that might sound like a lot--again, we're talking about film or video lights geared toward cinema lighting tools and techniques, not still photography; for a film production company, renting that $6899 set of lights for $500 for four days use might easily,easily be well worth the cost.


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## Village Idiot (Mar 28, 2016)

No to mention, can the OP attach modifiers to his light so that he has more than one type of light?


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## runnah (Mar 28, 2016)

You've dipped your toes into a very deep and very vast world. I could write 2k+ words about the various types and uses of "film" lights but I have a meeting. 

I'll say like 90% of the things in life you get what you pay for. And with LED lights you pay for things like anti-flciker, high output and quality of light.


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## table1349 (Mar 28, 2016)

480sparky said:


> MixedOutput said:
> 
> 
> > ......
> ...



You forgot one thing, Because You Can't Make It Yourself?


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## Watchful (Mar 28, 2016)

There is nothing special about them other than the label that says 'for photography'.
Because it's a tool for a trade that can make decent money, they want their cut. Tools are always expensive and often easily duplicated, specialty tools, even more so.


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## table1349 (Mar 28, 2016)

MixedOutput said:


> 480sparky said:
> 
> 
> > But I'll get you a dollar the OP didn't consider ANY of them when calculating the *true* 'cost' of his DIY lights.
> ...


Out of curiosity, what is the color temp range for each individual LED you used and the tolerances for that particular color temp range per LED?  Do they match, are their any areas that have a different color temp than the others?  

Those are the kinds of things that go into a quality made product, as well as being the kind of thing a discerning purchaser looks at.  It is the reason we get lighting questions about poor results with mixed lighting.  You can use it, but it makes getting the results you want tougher.  I'm all for DIY for those things that the DIY will not impact the results.  Lighting can be tough one.


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