# Looking at Lightroom 6. Help please.



## Canuckphotos (Aug 15, 2017)

So I want to take the plunge and order LR6. I am confused about the monthly subscription and I'm not into that at all. I want to be able to buy something and use it. 

So is the LR 6 a stand alone product that will provide editing options and a catalogue ? 

And what is the dif between photoshop ans LR 6? It's all very confusing to me LOL. I just want something I can dump photos into it and edit. Export and he done with it. 


Thanks for the help [emoji4]


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## john.margetts (Aug 15, 2017)

Lughtroom is available both as a monthly subscription together with Photoshop or as a stand alone product on its own. 

I have the stand alone version which is very nearly identical to the rented version (the differences are rather minor and have no effect on my work) and cost me a one-off fee.

It is easier to find the stand alone version on somewhere like Amazon as Adobe hide it well on their web site.



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## Canuckphotos (Aug 15, 2017)

john.margetts said:


> Lughtroom is available both as a monthly subscription together with Photoshop or as a stand alone product on its own.
> 
> I have the stand alone version which is very nearly identical to the rented version (the differences are rather minor and have no effect on my work) and cost me a one-off fee.
> 
> ...



Tanks for the reply!!!! I know what you mean about finding the stand alone on adobe site.....  

Did you upgrade from 5.7? And if so how do they compare ? Roughly the same interface ? 


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## Derrel (Aug 15, 2017)

Buy the standalone version.


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## KmH (Aug 15, 2017)

The $9.99 a month subscription includes *both* Lightroom CC & the professional grade Photoshop CC that can do so much more than Lr CC can do. So one can think that most of the monthly cost of the subscription is for Photoshop CC.

Before the subscription Photoshop came in 2 versions - regular and extended. The Regular version was $699 and the extended version was $999.
Adobe included all the Photoshop Extended version features when they went released Photoshop CC June 17, 2013.

The subscription includes the latest updates and upgrades for both Lr CC & Ps CC.
 Lightroom 6, officially released on April 21, 2015, will cease to be updated when Lightroom 7 is released.
If you want Lightroom 7 or later versions you'll have to pay for a 'License Upgrade' to get that.  $79 is the current License Upgrade price for those wanting to upgrade to Lr 6 from Lr 5, 4, 3, 2 or 1.

Here is where on Adobe's web site you buy a Full License for Lightroom 6 for $149 (actually quite easy to find):
Adobe products: desktop, web and mobile applications | Adobe


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## Light Guru (Aug 15, 2017)

Canuckphotos said:


> And what is the dif between photoshop ans LR 6?



While they do some similar things they are completely different. 



Canuckphotos said:


> I am confused about the monthly subscription and I'm not into that at all. I want to be able to buy something and use it.



You would be better off with the subscription.  Lightroom has announced that they are working on updating the software.  If you buy the stand alone you will have to buy the upgrade. Plus you also get photoshop with the subscription.


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## Canuckphotos (Aug 15, 2017)

So would photoshop be considered a stand alone ? When purchasing the $10 subscription and getting LR CC and photoshop CC do they overlap and integrate or is it two separate programs ? I've been using LR for some time now and up until now I haven't considered new editing software as my computer was crap. I recently bought a decent laptop with entry level performance and want to expand my photography world and maybe start a little side business and need something more professional. 

Sorry if this seems like newbie annoying questions but I just want to make sure I'm fully informed. 


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## OGsPhotography (Aug 15, 2017)

Ps is fun but has a large learning curve. 10:1 you wont use it for more than 200 hours therefore you'll never learn how to use it to even a beginner level. 

Lr can do plenty for your photos. If you feel you've mastered Lr and want to do more and have more control, get Ps as well.

I keep my subscription because I use Lr mobile as part of my workflow and feel the package has value. The cloud based sync is interesting. I love to dabble in Ps but dont have the time to properly immerse myself.

Lr just became more confusing by having a stand alone Lr and a CC version I havent much idea what its all about. Likely they will try to capitalize on diverse product line and will keep offering slightly more in CC.


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## Canuckphotos (Aug 15, 2017)

OGsPhotography said:


> Ps is fun but has a large learning curve. 10:1 you wont use it for more than 200 hours therefore you'll never learn how to use it to even a beginner level.
> 
> Lr can do plenty for your photos. If you feel you've mastered Lr and want to do more and have more control, get Ps as well.
> 
> ...



Holy cow! PS is that intense ?? This is what I find confusing..... why don't they just combine the two and come up with a all in one program that is user friendly LOL?!?!   

Now with the CC is that something that can be used offline? Are all my photos in a cloud somewhere ? And if I decide one day I no longer want the service will I lose all my stuff ? 


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## cherylynne1 (Aug 15, 2017)

Lightroom and Photoshop have overlap, definitely, but both do things that the other can't do, or do some things better than the other. 

For instance, Lightroom also stores and organizes your files. It has folders for them and keywords and can pull them up based on date, camera, lens, rating, and probably more things I've never used.  It's fantastic for global edits on RAW files, like color correction and exposure. 

Photoshop doesn't organize your files. It does have the ability for global edits, but I prefer the Lightroom interface for that. What Photoshop does that Lightroom cannot is composites. If you have two family pictures, and everyone looks good in one except one person, and you have another where that one person looks great? Swap the heads. Have a blown out sky in one photo and want to replace it with a textured sky with clouds? Composite. Lightroom can't do this, but Photoshop does it beautifully. I prefer cloning, healing, and burning/dodging work in Photoshop as well. 

The two programs are designed to work together. For me, I start in Lightroom, edit things like exposure and white balance, then take the photo into Photoshop (right click thumbnail, Edit In<Photoshop), make any cloning or composites needed, then take it back into Lightroom (File<Save--yes, seriously, you just save it in Photoshop and the copy goes right back into Lightroom) and then I make final changes, like cropping and vignettes, so that the final is saved in the Lightroom catalog. 

If you want to get an idea of some of the things you can do in Photoshop, I strongly recommend the Phlearn videos, many of which are available for free on YouTube.  Aaron Nace is a genius!


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## cherylynne1 (Aug 15, 2017)

Adding because I just saw your newest message: No, nothing is saved in a cloud, it's all saved on your computer. If you end your subscription, your photos are still available on your computer where you saved them. It can be used offline, I think only the "help" section would require an internet connection.


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## Ysarex (Aug 15, 2017)

Canuckphotos said:


> OGsPhotography said:
> 
> 
> > Ps is fun but has a large learning curve. 10:1 you wont use it for more than 200 hours therefore you'll never learn how to use it to even a beginner level.
> ...



The CC version loads on your computer and you can keep all your photos on your computer. Stay out of the cloud if you like. But the CC version is kind of like a Borg member of the collective. You can't break it's connection to the collective for too long or it dies. If you boot up the CC version of either LR or PS and you're computer does not have an Internet connection Adobe's connection app will pop up with a big yellow triangle and ! You're OK but the clock is ticking. You can go like that for weeks but eventually you're going to get the message that access to the Internet is required or else! The Borg has to check home and make sure your account is still active $$.

Joe


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## Canuckphotos (Aug 15, 2017)

You guys are so awesome!!!!!!! Thanks so much for the help and making this easier for my little brain to understand LOL. As a hobbyist photographer I'm reluctant to commit myself to monthly payment. I haven't broken through  the pro world and just started doing photo shoots for friends and family. Going to build a portfolio and see where it takes me [emoji4]. I know photographers are found everywhere now and not holding my breath. I just like to have fun with photos and test my creativity limits. 

Thanks folks for the help and I'll have to do some reading and weigh my options. 


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## Derrel (Aug 15, 2017)

BUY yourself a copy, or pay the $9.99 monthly ransom for three years, and pay over double the cost of a bought-and-payed-for copy that you can use without an internet connection and without Adobe snooping on you all the time.


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## snowbear (Aug 15, 2017)

I finally bit the bullet and got a 1-year subscription for the Photographer's package on Amazon.  I just have to renew in June.


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## Ysarex (Aug 15, 2017)

Canuckphotos said:


> OGsPhotography said:
> 
> 
> > Ps is fun but has a large learning curve. 10:1 you wont use it for more than 200 hours therefore you'll never learn how to use it to even a beginner level.
> ...



Photoshop is a raster image editor and Lightroom is a parametric image editor, as such they are radically different tools. Photoshop edits your images at the pixel level -- it pushes pixels around and will in fact change pixels. There's a method of working with Photoshop called layering that allows you to preserve the state of your original but it get's memory and file size intensive as well as ungainly. Some of what PS can do is forced destructive what we mean by that is that you have to commit the pixel change which then prevents you from backing out. You can of course always save your original unedited, but once you commit pixel changes you shut the door on easily changing your mind.

Lightroom implements all edits parametrically. It doesn't (it can't) change individual pixels directly. In fact LR saves it's edits in a text file as instructions. This has the advantage of allowing totally non-destructive surgically accessible re-edit ability as well as really easy access to multiple versions of the photo (just need a copy of the text file). Another advantage of this is dramatic savings in disk space used. The parametric workflow is the better option but not always possible. So the rule is do it parametrically if you can and resort to the raster editor if you must.

Joe


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## KmH (Aug 16, 2017)

cherylynne1 said:


> For instance, Lightroom also stores and organizes your files. It has folders for them and keywords and can pull them up based on date, camera, lens, rating, and probably more things I've never used.  It's fantastic for global edits on RAW files, like color correction and exposure.
> 
> Photoshop doesn't organize your files. It does have the ability for global edits, but I prefer the Lightroom interface for that. What Photoshop does that Lightroom cannot is composites. If you have two family pictures, and everyone looks good in one except one person, and you have another where that one person looks great? Swap the heads. Have a blown out sky in one photo and want to replace it with a textured sky with clouds? Composite. Lightroom can't do this, but Photoshop does it beautifully. I prefer cloning, healing, and burning/dodging work in Photoshop as well.
> 
> The two programs are designed to work together. For me, I start in Lightroom, edit things like exposure and white balance, then take the photo into Photoshop (right click thumbnail, Edit In<Photoshop), make any cloning or composites needed, then take it back into Lightroom (File<Save--yes, seriously, you just save it in Photoshop and the copy goes right back into Lightroom) and then I make final changes, like cropping and vignettes, so that the final is saved in the Lightroom catalog.


As far as image editing using Lightroom's Develop module and Photoshop's Camera Raw, both use Adobe Camera Raw (ACR).
That way a Raw file edited in Lr of Ps can move seamlessly back and forth between the 2 applications because they both use the same Raw converter.

While Lightroom's Library module is a image database management module and Lightroom's primary reason for being. However, many people have no experience using a database management system because they are used to using a computers file browser system. Note too that none of your image files get stored IN Lightroom. Your image files remain in your computer's browser based file system.

Using Lightroom's Library module is necessary so Lightroom can keep track of where in your computer's memory your image files are.
In other words, if you ingest your image files using Lightroom but subsequently move a file using your computer's file management system instead of Lightroom's Library module Lightroom no longer knows where those moved image files are in your computer's memory.

 Adobe Bridge is included with Photoshop CC. Bridge also lets us rate and keyword our image files and is a browser as opposed to being a database manager.

Photoshop CC can do way, more kinds of edits than Lr can and Ps can do edits more precisely than LR can.


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## jaomul (Aug 16, 2017)

I have the subscription. I think it's worth the outlay, but there are pros and cons for both.

If you get a new camera, the standalone version may not support the new raw file. Often they are upgraded with software, but sometimes it isn't updated until the next version. This can be problematic, but Adobe do a free software called DNG converter that allows you convert a raw file to a DNG which is basically an Adobe Raw file, so there is a work around if going fwd you have issues.

You could rent for a very short time and see if it is worthwhile, but if you buy standalone lightroom you have a very good editing software


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## OGsPhotography (Aug 16, 2017)

Holy cow! PS is that intense ?? This is what I find confusing..... why don't they just combine the two and come up with a all in one program that is user friendly LOL?!?! 

Now with the CC is that something that can be used offline? Are all my photos in a cloud somewhere ? And if I decide one day I no longer want the service will 

You get a month after ending subscription to get your photos backed up.

Yes it is available offline, I have 6k photos on my phone in Lr.... keep backups in a HD, and I think they go to a cloud as well.

If you could make a simple program that does what Ps and Lr does, market it omtk the world, and get people on board you will be rich beyond belief.


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## Derrel (Aug 16, 2017)

KmH said:


> cherylynne1 said:
> 
> 
> > For instance, Lightroom also stores and organizes your files. It has folders for them and keywords and can pull them up based on date, camera, lens, rating, and probably more things I've never used.  It's fantastic for global edits on RAW files, like color correction and exposure.
> ...


Soooooo disingenous. Seriously. And sooo utterly,totally, obliviously outdated in your way of thinking. Every time I read this same,exact,shopworn kind of post, from you, specifically, from you, I wonder if you are payed by Adobe? This must be the fiftieth similar post I have read from you about this, KmH, over literally years and years. And I am being serious: Are you payed by Adobe to promote Photoshop?

Keep enjoying those 169-megabyte versions of each edit you create....I'll stick with Lightroom and its tiny,tiny sidecar files.

Pixel-level editing. Very 1990's. Photoshop.

Parametric editing. Very twenty-first century. Lightroom.

Might be time to re-think some things.


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## cgw (Aug 16, 2017)

As Derrel stressed above, get the LR6 standalone while you can. It's very likely the last version you can actually own. Adobe is bent on jacking LR6 standalone owners around re: updates and mobile apps but don't fold and buy into the CC herd until it's absolutely necessary.

Download the free Nik Collection plug-ins, too, while they're still available:

Google Nik Collection


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## OGsPhotography (Aug 17, 2017)

Adobe makes both programs. 

Ps should be called Gs. Its a graphics shop. 
Lr is the photo shop. 

 Both are amazing. I happen to like highly stylized, cooked graphics.


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## Braineack (Aug 17, 2017)

jaomul said:


> If you get a new camera, the standalone version may not support the new raw file.



you get all the same updates. however, Adobe--being the horrible company they are--removes some features from the standalone version.  Guided Alignment tool and Dehaze for two.

These happen to be my two favorite tools.


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## jaomul (Aug 17, 2017)

Braineack said:


> jaomul said:
> 
> 
> > If you get a new camera, the standalone version may not support the new raw file.
> ...



Kind of, but when a new version of lr comes out, the older one stops updating, so you could lose raw support for newer cameras once standalone version updates


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## Canuckphotos (Aug 17, 2017)

Well, after looking at other softwares I decided that LR and PS will suit my needs for the moment. I like that I can jump ship. I'm not committed to a stand alone and have the ability to have ready to use updates with all the latest Adobe decides to throw at this. I kind of like having something that is constantly evolving and up to date. 

I know the subscription based software is a bit of a downer but it's the way of the future. After a couple days of reading and weighing my options this seems to be the way to go for now. 





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## Canuckphotos (Aug 17, 2017)

Stupid question....  I bought the Lightroom and photoshop for $10 USD and it did the download. But only LR showed up on computer. No photoshop 


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## cherylynne1 (Aug 17, 2017)

I think you have to specifically download Photoshop, while Lightroom is the thing it automatically directs you to.


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## cherylynne1 (Aug 17, 2017)

Download and install Photoshop CC


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## Canuckphotos (Aug 17, 2017)

cherylynne1 said:


> I think you have to specifically download Photoshop, while Lightroom is the thing it automatically directs you to.



Oh ok. I assumed it would trigger the package I bought. I was freaking out thinking the $10 sub was just for Lightroom. I was gonna lose my poo LOL. 

Downloading PS cc. Hope I don't incur more charges. As it says get LR and PS for just $9.99 


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## cherylynne1 (Aug 17, 2017)

No worries, I get both Lightroom and Photoshop for $10. No extra charges.


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## Canuckphotos (Aug 17, 2017)

Another question. In the creative cloud section with all the downloads. I notice some say "try" which is a trial. And some say download. Do I need the other apps? Bridge, tool kit etc. 


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## cherylynne1 (Aug 17, 2017)

I don't think I've downloaded any of them. "Try" are the ones that will give you a one-month free trial before trying to get you to upgrade to $50/month for all of the Adobe programs. "Download" means that it's included with your current subscription and/or free software, I believe.


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## Canuckphotos (Aug 17, 2017)

cherylynne1 said:


> I don't think I've downloaded any of them. "Try" are the ones that will give you a one-month free trial before trying to get you to upgrade to $50/month for all of the Adobe programs. "Download" means that it's included with your current subscription and/or free software, I believe.



Thanks again. Now I'm just looking up if bridge is needed. Ha ha. So much to learn 


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## BrentC (Aug 17, 2017)

Both LR and PS should show up in your Adobe Cloud.  Install Adobe Cloud, click the apps tab and you should see all the software.  Just click the install next to it.

The other good thing about the clound is I can i


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## KmH (Aug 17, 2017)

I use Bridge a lot.

I mentioned that Camera Raw and LR's Develop module were the same software - Adobe Camera Raw (ACR).
Unlike with Lr I can open 1 screen of ACR with Bridge and I can open a second screen with Photoshop.
Bridge also has some batch processing options Lr does not have, and Bridge can open way more file types than Lr can.
Bridge is there for many other Adobe applications, not just Photoshop.


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## Canuckphotos (Aug 17, 2017)

My brain hurts. I've spent the last 3 hours watching YouTube videos on the basics of PS and I don't get it LOL. Some people can do cool stuff with it! But they don't really talk about the process. More of a show off video. Even the tutorials demonstrate is of someone has previous knowledge of the buttons and some of the interface. Simple things like exporting files, preferences and all the different settings and adjustments is enough to make my head spin. It's going to take a lot of time for me to get to know this and I'm sure I'll be posting many posts [emoji12]. 

I'm fairly comfortable with LR and it's quite easy to use for me now. PS on the other will be a huge learning curve. 

Thanks to everyone who posted!!! 



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## Canuckphotos (Aug 17, 2017)

Found a awesome guy on YouTube called Terry White. His videos so far bang on and easy to follow [emoji106]


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## OGsPhotography (Aug 18, 2017)

Creative Live has courses.

Phlearn on utube.

Piximperfect is good as well.

Dont expect to produce results for a while. If you have a goal ( for me it was simply removing backgrounds and controlling the brushes) teybto stick to that.


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## Braineack (Aug 19, 2017)

cgw said:


> Download the free Nik Collection plug-ins, too, while they're still available:
> 
> Google Nik Collection



thanks for this link.


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## birdbonkers84 (Aug 19, 2017)

I have the adobe sub that gives me Lightroom and Photoshop for £10.99 a month, pure win in my book.  I've also recently started using the Google Nik collection for noise reduction and have been looking into the sharpening tool aswell as it is supposed to be very powerful.


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## fmw (Sep 6, 2017)

I have both PS and LR and I don't use either one.  There are all kinds of options.


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## smoke665 (Sep 6, 2017)

I use Bridge, and recommend it.


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## benhasajeep (Sep 11, 2017)

I have been with photoshop since 6.0.  And Lightroom since the beginning.  And it really miffed me they went to the cloud.  Last stand alone versions I had was CS4 (Web Premium) and LR5.  I eventually gave in and signed up for the $10 a month ransom (Paid 1 year fee).   Same goes for Office.  I eventually gave in and paid the yearly ransom.


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## KmH (Sep 12, 2017)

There is no 'cloud', other than the name they use 'Creative Cloud'. Creative Cloud used to be called Creative Suite.
The software loads right there on your computer, just like it always has.

Adobe is not the only software provider that got tired of having their software pirated (stolen) and went from a perpetual use license to a monthly (or yearly) subscription type of use license.


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## smoke665 (Sep 12, 2017)

KmH said:


> The software loads right there on your computer, just like it always has.



Except now it has a timer on it. Unless it can connect to the internet within a certain time limit to check your subscription status it will become unresponsive until it does. I've never hit the wall in the middle of nowhere yet, but there's been a few times I suspected I was close.


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## Braineack (Sep 12, 2017)

It's 6mo


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## wrangler5 (Sep 18, 2017)

I've used LR since LR3 (I think it was - I actually tried LR when it was first offered as a free trial, but didn't start using it until later.)  And I started using PS when I switched from film to digital in 2002.  PS is an immensely powerful graphics tool, originaly designed for graphic artists, but photographers figured out how to use some of its capabilities to edit their images.  Its power comes from the vast array of tools available, and this is what makes it so intimidating for beginners.  It certainly was for me when I first started.  

LR is a package that can manage digital images from initial organization (Library tab) through editing (Develop tab) to output via Printing, Web dissemination or Slide Show creation.  (There's also a tab called Map, but I have no idea what its function is.)  The database (Library) took a bit of getting used to, but I found that my own scheme for organizing photos into a folder heirarchy by year with subfolders under each year for individual events was easy to incorporate into LR once I got used to _starting_ there to create the new folders as needed.  You do have to "Import" your images into LR from the camera or card, but I use that step to (automatically) rename files to my preferred date and time format and dump them into a single folder named Initial Import.  That's the folder where I always do the intital review and purge of images I don't want to keep.  Once that's done, I can decide whether to move some or all of the images to folders that already exist, or to new folders that I create just before I move the files.  If I'm involved in an ongoing event, like a weekend long family reunion, I can import images throughout the weekend and let them sit in Initial Import until they're all there, and then review everything at once.  As others have noted, as long as you use LR to do your folder creation and your file moving and deleting, it will always keep track of where your images are.  Mine are actually on 2 external drives - the most recent years on one and older years on another.

The editing power of the Develop module in LR increases with every iteration.  Virtually all of my image output is 8x8 black and white prints, and I can now do all of my cropping (LR now has perspective adjustments as well as the usual crop and rotate functions) and almost all of the B&W conversion tools right in LR.  I have subscribed to the PS cloud version for several years, for those (increasingly) rare situations where I needed to edit a particular image at the pixel level.  And I now have printers that can output suitable B&W images directly from LR - I used to have to export images as JPEGs and print them from another computer that drove dedicated B&W printers, but my new printers can take the output directly.  As others have noted, LR never touches the original file (I shoot RAW files if the camera allows it), and even the printing is nondestructive.  Only the rare PS-edited image gets permanently changed, but it just ends up as a TIFF file in the same folder as the original, still-untouched RAW file.

Like some others, I am concerned about becoming locked into Adobe's subscription model and at the mercy of their periodic pricing decisions.  (As PS users now are - PS can _only_ be used on a monthly subscription basis, at whatever fee Adobe wants to charge.)  This is why I  prefer to pay for standalone copies of LR as long as they're available.  I recently bought a standalone upgrade to LR6, but I won't _have_ to buy any further upgrades as long as LR6 continues to do what I need to do.  And having evaluated how little I use PS, I recently cancelled my subscription the cloud version of PS and bought the most recent version of PS Elements.  It can do the kind of pixel-level editing I (occasionally) need to do outside of LR, and I now have a completely standalone photo suite which I can use without _having_ to make further payment to Adobe, hopefully indefinitely, but at least until such time as Apple revises OSX to the point where these versions no longer work.

For a new user of these Adobe tools I'd strongly recommend that you start with Lightroom.  There are LOTS of instructional videos available from Adobe for free.  I frequently end up looking at ones done by Julianne Kost - she's one of the many names that show up on the splash screen when LR opens.  She's done a whole bunch of them covering virtually all of the functionalities of the program.  I usually end up looking at one after I've done a search for a particular step that I want to take, but I believe she has some that are designed to start at the beginning and walk a newcomer through the basic operations.  If the OP doesn't find what he wants in the Terry White videos I'd suggest looking at Ms. Kost's - I think they show up through the Lightroom Help area of the Adobe web site.


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