# Engagement set - East TX



## jamesbjenkins (Apr 29, 2012)

Hey all, I recently shot an engaged couple I've known for a while.  I'll  be shooting their wedding next March.  Take a look at this sneak peek  and let me know what you think!  Thanks!

1. On the porch





2. Over the shoulder 





3. Elizabethan clowning





4. In the road





5. By the sign





6.  Model faces


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## marmots (Apr 29, 2012)

the highlights in the first one are too bright for my taste, and i feel like #2 & #6 could have some darker shadows

other than that their pretty good


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## Kerbouchard (Apr 29, 2012)

Honestly, the only one that looks like more than a snapshot is #2, and for it to be a standout, you would have had to tell him to tilt his head a bit to the right.


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## marmots (Apr 29, 2012)

Kerbouchard said:


> Honestly, the only one that looks like more than a snapshot is #2, and for it to be a standout, you would have had to tell him to tilt his head a bit to the right.



ok good! i wasn't sure if it as just me seeing that, so i didn't want to say it, i am seriously lacking in my portrait knowledge


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## cgipson1 (Apr 29, 2012)

#1.. overexposed.. faces and hands way too bright! Those white posts are fried.... CS5 Color Sampler shows the left post at 253!
#2 best of the bunch.. but the framing is really "not good"... he is not even half a subject
#3 Not flattering to the male.. looks like he has a stick up his ***!  Dappled lighting doesn't look good.. fried highlights on his arm
#4... don't care for it....background is distracting... lighting is very harsh.. shadows are very harsh
#5  Lighting is harsh.... way harsh!
#6 not a flattering pose for either of them.. they look "WIDE"! Typically you want to "short" light heavy people.... and pose them to minimize "droop"! Her right arm is not flattering at all!

But I am sure they liked them.....


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## jamesbjenkins (Apr 29, 2012)

Guess I'm 0 for 3 with this crowd.

Thankfully, none of you are paying me. ;-)

#6 is the only one I'm not happy with in the set I posted.

Gipson, I appreciate your feedback.

Kerbouchard, your snapshots must be a lot nicer than mine if you call any of these shots "snapshots"... maybe you should calibrate your monitor


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## Dominantly (Apr 29, 2012)

I can see where the term snapshot could be used to describe the misses in posing/composition/exposure.

#2 and 6 aren't terrible, but they still lack a bit of refinement that I would expect for payment.
The rest have some serious lighting/clarity issues that I wouldn't be happy with.
For example in #5 you have that shot of the Austin sign with some people out of focus at the end of it, with some hot flat lighting, and other things that mildly take away like the pole and tuft of grass.


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## tirediron (Apr 29, 2012)

C&C per req:

1.  I like the pose and composition; this is one case where centering the subject works.  As mentioned, the highlights?  Ouch!  His expression however doesn't really say "I'm happy to be here".

2.  Great expression, walk the highlights back a hair.  I wish though it wasn't so tight.  

3.  The perfect example of why you don't pose subjects immediately in front of a tree.  He's got three antlers and she's got one big one!  Between his expression and the processing and background, I'd bin this one.

4.  Again a bit hot on the highlights, and a rather cliche pose.  I think this would have been a lot stronger if you had placed them closer to the vanishing point of the lines.  As-is, my eye goes right past them.  It also seems to lean slightly right.

5.  I'll assume that there is some significance to this.  Not a bad shot, but doesn't really scream 'engagement' to me.  I think I would have preferred to see more of their faces. 

6.  He looks like he wants to hit you!  I would try and avoid quite such obvious attempts to show off the ring.  I think you should have been telling jokes or something here; their exprssions really don't work, and watch your cropping and when possible avoid things like the disembodied knee.

I don't see these as 'snapshot-ish' as some of the others, but I definitely see where they could have been improved.  

Just my $00.02 worth - your mileage may vary.

~John


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## jamesbjenkins (Apr 29, 2012)

Let it never be said that I was above criticism.  Per some of your suggestions, I have retouched the images that didn't suffer compositional issues.  These were all shot yesterday, and the client hasn't received anything yet.  Feedback on the edits is appreciated.

1. Over the shoulder - Different pose





2. On the porch 





3. By the sign - cropped / toned down / cloned away grass, pole





More to come when I complete the set...


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## Dominantly (Apr 29, 2012)

That first one is much better, good job on the sign shot (doesn't it just look cleaner?!?), and I like think the recovery on the poles of the second shot is much better, but I might explore a crop, or removal of that ?!chair?! in the bottom center. It's kind of awkward and might draw some unwanted attention.


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## cgipson1 (Apr 29, 2012)

Edits / re-posts are much improved!


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## Kerbouchard (Apr 29, 2012)

jamesbjenkins said:


> Kerbouchard, your snapshots must be a lot nicer than mine if you call any of these shots "snapshots"... maybe you should calibrate your monitor



My monitor is calibrated, and yes, since you asked, my throwaways are nicer than these.  I was being generous when I referred to them as snapshots.

Actually, before I hit the backspace key, I had said that I hope they get a chance to see these before the wedding.  That would give them an opportunity to choose another photographer.  You just aren't ready.  With the gear you have, you should be producing better results.  Just my opinion.

My parents and inlaws are in Lufkin...let me know the day of the shoot...I might be able to help you out.


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## Robin Usagani (Apr 30, 2012)

LOL...  wow.. just wow...  Kerbouchard speaks like he is a master wedding photographer.



Kerbouchard said:


> jamesbjenkins said:
> 
> 
> > Kerbouchard, your snapshots must be a lot nicer than mine if you call any of these shots "snapshots"... maybe you should calibrate your monitor
> ...


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## jamesbjenkins (Apr 30, 2012)

Kerbouchard said:
			
		

> My monitor is calibrated, and yes, since you asked, my throwaways are nicer than these.  I was being generous when I referred to them as snapshots.
> 
> Actually, before I hit the backspace key, I had said that I hope they get a chance to see these before the wedding.  That would give them an opportunity to choose another photographer.  You just aren't ready.  With the gear you have, you should be producing better results.  Just my opinion.
> 
> My parents and inlaws are in Lufkin...let me know the day of the shoot...I might be able to help you out.



I'm going to assume that your dog died, or something terrible has happened to give you such a hostile attitude.

I wasn't aware my thread was a pissing contest.  Especially seeing as how I've posted only 6 of the 32 images I'm going to deliver, and the first shots posted are practically SOOC!

And, if this is the tone you usually take when offering constructive criticism, your "just my opinion" might as well be floating in my toilet.  If I'm doing something fundamentally wrong, then address it.  All you've done is hijack my otherwise civil thread with your nonsense. There's absolutely no excuse for a grown man to be so rude.


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## Robin Usagani (Apr 30, 2012)

James, try not to be too posey next time.  Sometimes I like to tell them to go to a certain spot and do their thing unposed.  I am a fan of #2.  Take some shot of her with her eyes closed too so it doesnt feel as posed and you can feel the connection between them.


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## jamesbjenkins (Apr 30, 2012)

Schwettylens said:
			
		

> James, try not to be too posey next time.  Sometimes I like to tell them to go to a certain spot and do their thing unposed.  I am a fan of #2.  Take some shot of her with her eyes closed too so it doesnt feel as posed and you can feel the connection between them.



Great advice.  I'm still pretty new to the non-posed techniques. Thanks!


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## tirediron (Apr 30, 2012)

Kerbouchard said:


> jamesbjenkins said:
> 
> 
> > Kerbouchard, your snapshots must be a lot nicer than mine if you call any of these shots "snapshots"... maybe you should calibrate your monitor
> ...


Ouch!


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## Kerbouchard (Apr 30, 2012)

jamesbjenkins said:


> Especially seeing as how I've posted only 6 of the 32 images I'm going to deliver, and the first shots posted are practically SOOC!



The SFA Campus is an ideal location for something like this.  With the ones you posted, I assumed these were the best from the day...not that there were 26 others that may have captured some of those locations.  If the other 26 are something special, I apologize for the snap judgement.


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## jamesbjenkins (Apr 30, 2012)

Kerbouchard said:
			
		

> The SFA Campus is an ideal location for something like this.  With the ones you posted, I assumed these were the best from the day...not that there were 26 others that may have captured some of those locations.  If the other 26 are something special, I apologize for the snap judgement.



I posted the first group of keepers from the session.  I haven't even processed most of them yet.  If it would be easier for the forum to CC them after they are completed, delivered images, then I'll hold future posts until that point.  And, I'll be sure to post the best from this session once they're done.

I'd hate for anyone to waste a snappy insult on an image(s) that wasn't done yet. ;-)

Apology accepted.


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## Robin Usagani (Apr 30, 2012)

James, dont post SOOC shots even on a forum before your clients see them. Search engine acts in a mysterious way. Future clients may see your work on here so you certainly dont want them to see SOOC stuff.  There are times when photos look amazing SOOC.  That is an exception .


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## jamesbjenkins (Apr 30, 2012)

Schwettylens said:
			
		

> James, dont post SOOC shots even on a forum before your clients see them. Search engine acts in a mysterious way. Future clients may see your work on here so you certainly dont want them to see SOOC stuff.  There are times when photos look amazing SOOC.  That is an exception .



Good point, Robin. I do all my own SEO, so I definitely should have known better.


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## rub (Apr 30, 2012)

Kerbouchard said:


> jamesbjenkins said:
> 
> 
> > Kerbouchard, your snapshots must be a lot nicer than mine if you call any of these shots "snapshots"... maybe you should calibrate your monitor
> ...



Ouch is right. I don't find these to be snapshots at all. Can they be improved? Sure, and there have been many great tips. But that comment was just rude. And untrue in my opinion.  Great that you can take all the critique and use it though.  Best of luck on your business.


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## DiskoJoe (May 3, 2012)

My favorite was in the road. No silly posing. I can feel the love even without seeing their faces. The pic is real.


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## globalukk (May 4, 2012)

Over the shoulder was my favorite, very original.


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## rexbobcat (May 4, 2012)

rub said:


> Kerbouchard said:
> 
> 
> > jamesbjenkins said:
> ...



Remember that Kerbouchard has been doing this for decades. He is renowned. His word is law.


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## Trever1t (May 4, 2012)

someone just forgot to eat his cherios is all me thinks!


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## Kerbouchard (May 4, 2012)

rexbobcat said:


> Remember that Kerbouchard has been doing this for decades. He is renowned. His word is law.



This has already been addressed.  I am very familiar with the location he shot at.  

Based on the post, I assumed these were his best from the day.  He later pointed out that they weren't his best from the day and were not processed.  I apologized for the hasty judgement, he accepted that apology, and we are now waiting for the OP to present what he actually plans on showing the client.

Try to read the entire thread before commenting...It's amazing.  It's almost like you get to see into the future.  

Currently, you are about a week in the past.


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## jamesbjenkins (May 5, 2012)

The rest of the best will be posted later today or tomorrow.  Long week...


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## Trever1t (May 5, 2012)

Kerbouchard said:


> jamesbjenkins said:
> 
> 
> > Kerbouchard, your snapshots must be a lot nicer than mine if you call any of these shots "snapshots"... maybe you should calibrate your monitor
> ...


 


Kerbouchard said:


> This has already been addressed.  I am very familiar with the location he shot at.
> 
> Based on the post, I assumed these were his best from the day.  He later pointed out that they weren't his best from the day and were not processed.  I apologized for the hasty judgement, he accepted that apology, and we are now waiting for the OP to present what he actually plans on showing the client.
> 
> ...



BS man, your original post was out of line. While his shots aren't breathtaking they are good efforts. I don't recall *you* posting any that were superior to these and I do recall your "Best Of" wedding set. While I might not have the experience as a wedding photographer as you do I know good from bad. Giving advice is fine, anyone can do that. You have experience, sure, be helpful but saying your trash is better than his photos here is sooo wrong.


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## o hey tyler (May 5, 2012)

James, if you want a good laugh, Kerb's "Best of 2011" thread was pretty comical. If he's touting his throwaway images as better than your work, you'll be left scratching your head when you see his "best." Frankly, if I took photos that were on the low level of Kerb's "best," I would have deleted all the files to the recycle bin, and then reformatted my hard drive so that there was absolutely no trace of them ever existing. I then would have probably placed small explosives in my computer case and started from scratch JUST TO BE SURE. 

I thought Kerb had changed his tune a bit. He came to terms with the fact that he's "not an artist" (his words, not mine). He had been pretty respectful on the forums for the most part, with the exception of attacking me unprovoked one day because he apparently had nothing more important on his agenda lined up. 

However, in this thread he reared his hot air filled douchey head. I honestly feel like Trever1t's post prior to mine was giving him too much credit. Kerb has experience in the sense that he's actuated the shutter of his camera in a wedding environment, and ONLY actuated the shutter. It doesn't make him a wedding photographer. Far from it. But, there are some people that need help sleeping at night, and if he wants to believe he's a wedding photographer, well, let him believe. It's a lot less expensive than Ambien. 

FWIW, I found your images to be pleasing. The State University photo seems to leave a bit to be desired, but they can't all be winners. Overall, nice set.


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## Robin Usagani (May 5, 2012)

Tyler.. come on man.. dont be lazy!  Post the link dawg!  Remember, this is a collection of his best of the whole year!
http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/professional-gallery/268268-kerbs-best-2011-a.html


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## Chris R (May 5, 2012)

Schwettylens said:


> Tyler.. come on man.. dont be lazy!  Post the link dawg!  Remember, this is a collection of his best of the whole year!http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/professional-gallery/268268-kerbs-best-2011-a.html


Oh man... Your critique in that thread is obscenely accurate.Anyway, I have nothing of value to add to this thread.


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## jamesbjenkins (May 5, 2012)

Schwettylens said:


> Tyler.. come on man.. dont be lazy!  Post the link dawg!  Remember, this is a collection of his best of the whole year!
> http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/professional-gallery/268268-kerbs-best-2011-a.html



I don't really have any interest in bashing another pro's work on this forum.  Unless there are fundamental flaws (comp, exposure, etc.) that I can critique, it all comes down to a difference in artistic vision.


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## jamesbjenkins (May 5, 2012)

Here are my favorites from the rest of the title session.  Again, please feel free to CC.

1.  The prerequisite, and requested, newspaper shot





2. Probably my favorite shot of the session





3. Same shot, playing with textures and BW conversion





4. Cute, cheesy shot the bride requested





5. Candid





6. Different crop of previous porch shot





---

Hopefully, these will poll better than my first attempts in the thread.  Thanks!


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## Trever1t (May 5, 2012)

jamesbjenkins said:


> I don't really have any interest in bashing another pro's work on this forum.  Unless there are fundamental flaws (comp, exposure, etc.) that I can critique, it all comes down to a difference in artistic vision.




A professional attitude goes far


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## manaheim (May 5, 2012)

By and large I'm not overly excited by them.  The big spaces over their heads seems a bit weird in most cases.

However, that last one made me smile.  Was pretty cute.


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## The_Traveler (May 6, 2012)

I have to admit I don't understand what you were going for with these.
In #1 there is this huge space above the people's heads. The background is really bright, the people seem overbright and almost toneless.
In the B/W conversion,#3, her leg is glaring white and it looks like they're in a fire with a lot of smoke.

IMO, I would edit these quite a bit to get some color and lushness into them and fix the distracting backgrounds before showing them to the couple.

Lew


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## Kerbouchard (May 6, 2012)

In general, I would say the main issue is the wardrobe.  His shirt is pretty bright, and for the bride to be, I think these photos would have been more flattering had she been wearing sleaves and a shirt that wasn't so low-cut.  Generally, our eyes will be drawn to the brightest part of a photo and that should usually be the face.  While I understand that you can't always tell your client what to wear, you can usually give them some direction.

Looking back at the original set and your latest set, I think it was the faces in the center of the frame with a lot of dead space on top and the wardrobe that made me think of these as snapshots.


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