# The renaissance in film photography goes on



## Fred von den Berg (Jan 28, 2018)

This article is from _The Guardian_ newspaper in Britain, where, it seems, film is not just holding on:

Back to the darkroom: young fans reject digital to revive classic film camera


----------



## cgw (Jan 28, 2018)

Not again...Articles like this recall the title of Errol Morris's book, "Believing is Seeing."
Buried deep in the Reflex Kickstarter page is their "production" schedule--fall 2018...maybe. So many 35mm cameras of all flavors, shapes and varieties kicking around sorta beg the question: why? So tired of the vinyl analogy. I can still get film and processing, so obviously it's still being consumed and produced in numbers sufficient to keep it on the shelves. That's all that matters. Somehow, though, I've yet to see a "revival" on the scale these articles report but never document.


----------



## Fred von den Berg (Jan 28, 2018)

^


cgw said:


> So many 35mm cameras of all flavors, shapes and varieties kicking around sorta beg the question: why?



Lots of second hand cars out there, so why buy a new one? As the article mentions, using film isn't only a matter of nostalgia, it's appealing to both older as well as newer photographers, so those who have experience of film as well as those newly discovering this medium. I think the point is that the group involved want to produce a now camera for the now film users.

On that point, the camera does admittedly look a little retro.


----------



## Ysarex (Jan 28, 2018)

It would be nice to see continued production of new film cameras. Pushing film photography into an exclusively used camera market feels kind of like driving in Cuba. So it's encouraging that someone is thinking about it. Now we need someone competent to think about it. These folks have made a *huge glaring* design error with this camera and if they can't fix it then this camera is a bust. In the transition from the 1960s to the 1970s we saw the advance in SLR design include open aperture metering. In the 1950s we got the light meter built into the camera and by the early 1960s that meter was linked to the shutter and f/stop controls on the camera -- turn the shutter knob and the meter readout changed, turn the f/stop ring and the meter readout changed. But in earliest implementations of a linked metering system the f/stop had to be set to the taking aperture to meter. This was stopped down metering. The huge design advance in the 1960s was allowing the meter to function with the aperture held fully open and then stopping down to the taking f/stop only at the instant of exposure. Anybody who remembers the little pin sticking out of the back of M42 mount lenses understands. You need to both focus and compose with the lens wide open -- you can't do those two things with the lens stopped down to the taking aperture. We called that design advance open aperture metering. Try photographing a sporting event in which you first have to focus the lens and compose the shot. Then push a button to force the aperture to close down so you can meter the scene and then finally with the aperture stopped down take the photo. That's how this camera works, which is to say it doesn't.

You could argue that it's OK to design a new film camera that's only appropriate for landscape and still life photography. Fine, then why make it 35mm. When I used to shoot landscapes with film I used bigger film. When I grabbed a 35mm camera I was headed to photograph an event -- something where the tripod wasn't going to work. Open aperture metering makes event photography work.

Joe


----------



## tirediron (Jan 28, 2018)

I can't see too many people spending $500+ on a brand new, very basic SLR when you can buy something like a lightly used F5 for <$400.  I'm sure a few people will go for it, but I don't see it attracting enough people to make a go of it.


----------



## Derrel (Jan 28, 2018)

This on-line article was easy to find on Google. It currently has 8,485 view, 2 shares, and 0 comments. 5 Best Film Cameras That You Can Purchase Brand New - ALC

I typed in "Does Nikon still make film cameras?" and the above article popped up in the search results.

So...for a "revival" or "renaissance", seems kinda' weird that out of 8,485 views, this article has 2 people sharing it. I mean, come on...that shows an exceptionally LOW level of excitement about new film cameras.

Anyway, the kickstarter Reflex camera project sounds tremendously over-engineered. The machining and fitting of the five different *slide-on lens mounting platforms*? Interchangeable back? And 35mm film? Wow...this thing could be super expensive and incredibly challenging to machine and build. This looks like one man's dream camera. And far more than a small group of people could ever hope to produce. Perhaps at Leica price points, such a camera could be built, but the way the camera industry works, the camera maker also makes the lenses. With five different slide-on lens mounts, this camera kills any and all lens sales from the camera maker, and throws the idea of automatic diaphragm control right out the window...this thing is stepping back to the 1936-1953 era in 35mm SLRs...no auto-diaphragm? Sorry....but this Reflex camera idea is over-thought-or is it under-thought? LOL. Nope...woulda' been much better to have gone with ONE lens mount,like m4 thread mount, or Nikon F-mount, and automatic diaphragm stop-down and full-aperture viewing.


----------



## AlanKlein (Jan 28, 2018)

There are so many good vintage 35mm and medium format film cameras available and great lenses, all so relatively cheap.


----------



## Peeb (Jan 28, 2018)

I picked up a used Nikon F100 with an included nikor 35-105 lens for 100.00 total.   It was a nice deal, but hardly in the once-in-a-lifetime category.  

The F100 drives all of my lenses, INCLUDING the modern 'G' series lenses.  Why in the world would I spend 5x that for a newer but 'lesser' camera?

Answer:  I would certainly not.


----------



## 480sparky (Jan 28, 2018)

> The firm is exploring ways of reintroducing its most famous product, Kodachrome.



I hear that about twice a year.  Someone has this grandiose idea to 'bring back' Kodachrome.  I'll bet they think it's like developing Ektachrome in your kitchen sink...... 3 chemical baths and you're dropping the film into cardboard frames and into the Carousel they go!

As much as I loved K25 and would love even more to be able to shoot it today, Kodachrome is gone forever.


----------



## cgw (Jan 28, 2018)

Fred von den Berg said:


> ^
> 
> 
> cgw said:
> ...


 Slightly bogus analogy, sorry. And, pardon me, but this Reflex POS isn't a patch on what's floating around on eBay, Craigslist or Kijiji. "Now" film users, unless they're utter dolts, know the difference and wouldn't bother with this latest Kickstarter mirage.


----------



## Fred von den Berg (Jan 28, 2018)

cgw said:


> Fred von den Berg said:
> 
> 
> > ^
> ...



The thing that I personally find interesting about this is not necessarily the camera in question (though I wouldn't wright it off as a POS without seeing some results from it) but rather that people want new film cameras nowadays at all. The analogy with the second-hand car market is not bogus: at some point the cameras that are available second hand will become unreliable junk that nobody can repair or service. No new cameras means no long-term future for film.


----------



## cgw (Jan 28, 2018)

Fred von den Berg said:


> cgw said:
> 
> 
> > Fred von den Berg said:
> ...



The difference in utility between a camera and car should be obvious. That's why new cars are available, no? Film is a residual market that simply won't climb out of the hole it fell into years ago. Believing otherwise is fabulism. Personally, I have multiple examples of favorite 35mm and MF cameras that should hold me. That repair services aren't burgeoning is probably the surest index of that film photography is holding its ground in 2018 but not expanding.


----------



## Derrel (Jan 28, 2018)

Well, for those who want a serviceable, low-cost, pretty well-proven-over-time 35mm SLR, the Nikon FM-10 is still being made; I've read hundreds of times that the FM-10 is made by Cosina (you know...the company that made the Zeiss uber-pricey lenses for years! And who makes the Voigtlander manual focus, rangefinder, 35mm FILM cameras and the gorgeous lenses!) for Nikon. And for those with bigger bank accounts and a desire for what has often been,arguably, called the world's finest 35mm SLR ever, the Nikon F6 is still availble new. So...we have a student-budget and a rich-old-dude budget pair of 35mm Nikon SLR's out there, available. Reportedly, sales are very slow. Plus Leica and Voigtlander rangefinders, all sold new.

At ProPhoto Supply I recently saw traded in a trio of "passed away Dad" camera and lens outfits, which had been in the hands of a now late-50-something man for years,mostly unused,except for the Nikon F5, which he had been shooting for some years now. He traded in (well-put up for consignment sale) a super-nice Leica M3 single-stroke, a 50 Summar, a 90mm Elmar, a Nikon F5 and a lens, and a Mamiya RZ (RZ?? the motorized one) and two lenses, and bought himself a Nikon D5600, the 18-140 AF-S VR-G, and an SB-xxx flash, a bag, and the new 70-300 AF-P VR tele-zoom. He was certain he'd actually USE the new digital SLR kit much,much more than the only camera he'd been using out of the three filmies, which was the F5. *He was VERY excited to be buying his first d-slr*. I stood right by him and talked with him a bit, as Jimmy examined the older gear and put batteries in to check out the F5 and the Mamiya as the trade-in was done over about 20 minutes or so. I told him what a GREAT time this is, to have the capabilities of the new-era Nikons with their ISO-invariant sensors and the 24-million pixels on APS-C,and the small bodies, and the Lithium-Ion battery that lasts an entire weekend and well over 1,000 frames and chimping.

So...anyway...there are plenty of NICE, lightly-used, great-quality film cameras coming into the market: last weekend, a Leica M3 and two good lenses hit the used market; a nice Mamiya 120 rollfilm SLR hit the market; and a Nikon F5 35mm slr hit the used market. I think the M3 LEICA is one of the finest 35mm rangefinders ever made, with solid lenses available. The Cosina 35mm rangefinders, sold under the Voigtlander Bessa labels, are also nice; I owned one, it was basically a Nikon FM-10 chassis and shutter fitted with a capping shutter add-on, but still, a useful,solid shooter, mechanically timed shutter, needed no batteries to shoot. Because of the supply of older film cameras, some of them absolutely fantastic, AND supported by solid, deep systems (Leica M-mount accessories, Nikon F-mount system, m42 thread stuff from 40+ brands), I really cannot see this kickstarter coming to actual production. There's just wayyyyy too much good stuff out there, "*used but hardly-shot*"!

cgw sums it up succinctly: "_Personally, I have multiple examples of favorite 35mm and MF cameras that should hold me. That repair services aren't burgeoning is probably the surest index of that film photography is holding its ground in 2018 but not expanding_."


----------



## Fred von den Berg (Jan 29, 2018)

cgw said:


> The difference in utility between a camera and car should be obvious.



Indeed. I could live, and often have, without a car.


----------



## ac12 (Jan 29, 2018)

The lack of an auto coupled aperture is the MAJOR flaw in the design.
Using the lens in manual mode would be like going back to the preset lenses of the 1960s.
I have not seen stop down metering since the Pentax Spotmatic and Mamiya/Sekor 1000DTL, back in the early 70s.

I think, the interchangeable back is a pet feature of one of the team members, and they forced it through to be a "feature."
I would have saved the complexity, design effort and cost and put it into the auto coupled aperture, which IMHO is much more useful and practical.

Given the camera as designed, I would rather buy a used Nikon, Canon, Minolta or Olympus, send it in for CLA, and I would still come out way cheaper.  And I would have the auto coupled aperture.


----------



## vin88 (Feb 11, 2018)

Fred von den Berg said:


> ^
> 
> 
> cgw said:
> ...


I just verified " there is still black and white film containing silver" from an army veteran  with black stains under the skin of his fore arms.  "thanks for serving",  we want silver in good back and white pix..


----------

