# Photo Challenge Voting Poll - February 2011 "Self-Portrait"



## Chris of Arabia

Which is your favourite?

February 2011 Photo Challenge Gallery

*Note: As always, it is well worth looking all of the images at their        full size, as the thumbnails really don't do some of them all that          much   justice.*

You may notice that in the gallery some files appear larger then 150KB,            but every photo included was less then 150KB when uploaded to    the         gallery.

To ensure that voting remains fair only active participating members of            the forum may cast a vote. New members may not be able to vote       right      away in a challenge due to restrictions that have been   put  in     place.  If    you cannot vote, but believe that you should   be  able   to,   feel free  to    send a pm to myself or another TPF   staff  member.

Please keep in mind that we are trying to keep this challenge anonymous            (and unbiased) when it comes to both the submitting and the      voting.       Please avoid sharing your opinions about any specific      photos until    after    the voting has completed and the winner is      announced.

* Please read the titles carefully in order to avoid confusion before      voting.* The photos may not be sorted in the correct order    so   to ensure you view them in proper order scroll to the bottom of   the   page  and where it says "*Display Options*" ensure you  select    Sorted By:  "*File Name*" Sort Order: "*Ascending*"  and  then   click on  the "*Sort Now*" button.

After viewing the photos please take the opportunity to vote for your            favourite. Good luck to all. If there are any questions please   let    us       know.

The mods/admins of ThePhotoForum.com may decide the winner from the top            five submitted photos. The winner of the photo challenge will   be          contacted by Private Message (PM) on the day that the  winner  is          announced. If the winner does not respond to the PM  within  30  days   they       will not receive their prize and it will  be put   towards a   future       challenge. If we are unable to ship  the   intended prize to   the winner  do      to his/her location we  will   provide another prize of   equal  value. 

The polls will be open for the next fourteen days.

Please note that I am not going to add all of the images into the thread this month, there are just too many of them.


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## JWellman

Never mind...finally found where they were located.


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## Bitter Jeweler

Nope. Gallery fail. 

However, if you look to the box on the left "Top Posters" click on Chris of Arabia, and you can see them. And then the options stated DO show up at the bottom.


http://www.thephotoforum.com/photos/showgallery.php?ppuser=14735&username=chris-of-arabia


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## JWellman

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't this lead to *just* that album?  (I'm not a fan of their gallery :meh: )

feb11photo01 - The Photo Forum Photo Gallery


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## Snakeguy101

wow, this is confusing... is there any way to get the photos posted in this forum? I feel like we would get a lot more votes that way. I almost gave up on voting and I have an entry!


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## NielsSw

my god that gallery is annoying..

and wow, 50 is a lot to choose from.


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## Bynx

Gallery doesnt work for me. Tried the slideshow and while there is something going on I only see the heading ad. No pics to see. Please post the exact address to see anything.


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## Bitter Jeweler

Bynx said:


> Gallery doesnt work for me. Tried the slideshow and while there is something going on I only see the heading ad. No pics to see. Please post the exact address to see anything.


http://www.thephotoforum.com/photos/...hris-of-arabia


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## Bynx

Thanks Bitter Jeweler but all I see is everything EXCEPT the pics. Does it make a difference that Im using Mac and latest version of Firefox?


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## Bitter Jeweler

I see everything with the latest version of Firefox, on a PC.

PC's FTW!

Also works with iPhone and iPad with Safari. 

*shrug*


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## Bynx

For the longest time I couldnt start a post or edit a reply that I might have made. I thought all the problems with this site were fixed with the new software. I guess not. Im going to try logging on with my daughters iPod.


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## Snakeguy101

Bynx said:


> Thanks Bitter Jeweler but all I see is everything EXCEPT the pics. Does it make a difference that Im using Mac and latest version of Firefox?


 
No it shouldn't I have a mac and the latest version of firefox too. It works for me.


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## Bynx

Well I tried it with an old version of Safari and it worked. Also worked on my daughters iPod. Must be some setting I have but I checked them and all seems ok.


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## Josh66

Wow...  There is some VERY NSFW stuff in the gallery...  Need to check that out more often...  :lmao:


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## Josh66

Bitter Jeweler said:


> Bynx said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gallery doesnt work for me. Tried the slideshow and while there is something going on I only see the heading ad. No pics to see. Please post the exact address to see anything.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.thephotoforum.com/photos/...hris-of-arabia
Click to expand...

 That just took me to Chris' gallery ... this looks like the right one:

1102 - February '11 Photo Challenge 'Self-Portrait' - The Photo Forum Photo Gallery


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## allthingsapple

O|||||||O said:


> Wow...  There is some VERY NSFW stuff in the gallery...  Need to check that out more often...  :lmao:


 
NSFW??

Sorry, total newb here.....


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## Josh66

OK, I voted.  Yeah - 51 is a lot!  

I had 6 'finalists' to choose from, which I narrowed down to 2...  Picking one of those was hard.


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## Josh66

allthingsapple said:


> O|||||||O said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow...  There is some VERY NSFW stuff in the gallery...  Need to check that out more often...  :lmao:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NSFW??
> 
> Sorry, total newb here.....
Click to expand...

 Not Safe For Work.  (Nudity)


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## norabora

So many choices!!


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## NielsSw

For everyone who gets lost in the gallery, here is an alternative gallery with the same pictures:

http://nielsswinkels.nl/photocontest/


(I did not use the biggest size for the pictures because those don't always fit in the screen. So if you want to see a picture as big as possible, go here)


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## Bynx

Thanks NielsSw that works fine.


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## JWellman

NielsSw said:


> For everyone who gets lost in the gallery, here is an alternative gallery with the same pictures:
> 
> http://nielsswinkels.nl/photocontest/
> 
> go here)


Thank you NielsSw! I don't know why the photo contests are not done that way to begin with. The Photo Forum needs a decent home page (besides the forum) where various projects can be posted.


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## inaka

NielsSw said:


> For everyone who gets lost in the gallery, here is an alternative gallery with the same pictures:
> 
> http://nielsswinkels.nl/photocontest/
> 
> 
> (I did not use the biggest size for the pictures because those don't always fit in the screen. So if you want to see a picture as big as possible, go here)


 This is a million times better....thank you!


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## SGpascoe

NielsSw said:


> For everyone who gets lost in the gallery, here is an alternative gallery with the same pictures:
> 
> http://nielsswinkels.nl/photocontest/
> 
> 
> (I did not use the biggest size for the pictures because those don't always fit in the screen. So if you want to see a picture as big as possible, go here)




Thanks very much, this gallery is perfect! I cast my vote!


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## Sirashley

I would love a system where we vote on every image and rate them 1-10, person with the highest average wins, that's how it is on my other site. That way, everyone gets feedback on their image. I'm not sure how hard that would be to implement though, I know less than nothing about web design...


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## gulfman1

There are some GREAT photos. The thing is that on lots of them it´s almost impossible to say if they where "self portrait" or "simple portrait"...


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## RalphP13

NielsSw said:


> For everyone who gets lost in the gallery, here is an alternative gallery with the same pictures:
> http://nielsswinkels.nl/photocontest/


 
Thank you for this much simpler way to look at the photos!!!

Thanks, Ralph




gulfman1 said:


> There are some GREAT photos. The thing is that on lots of them it´s almost impossible to say if they where "self portrait" or "simple portrait"...


 

I agree, however, I believe you need to give the participants the benefit of the doubt and assume all entries are a self-portrait, after all, that WAS the challenge.

Thanks, Ralph


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## Bynx

I think the judges or whoever is in charge of deciding which pics get posted for judging should weed out the pics which dont even come close to being what was asked for. There is a definition of a portrait and if the entry doesnt meet that definition then it should be tossed out and the submitter informed so they can get a chance to do what was asked for. I must say that I include myself amongst those whose pic should have been tossed since it doesnt exactly meet the definition. I see 23 entries which just dont make it as a portrait and another 3 or 4 which are questionable. But there they are.


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## Josh66

Bynx said:


> I think the judges or whoever is in charge of deciding which pics get posted for judging should weed out the pics which dont even come close to being what was asked for. There is a definition of a portrait and if the entry doesnt meet that definition then it should be tossed out and the submitter informed so they can get a chance to do what was asked for. I must say that I include myself amongst those whose pic should have been tossed since it doesnt exactly meet the definition. I see 27 or 28 entries which just dont make it as a portrait. But there they are.


 Just don't vote for the ones that you don't feel cut it.  If everybody else does the same, the 'best' picture will win.

I didn't submit a photo this month, but I did vote - I thought the competition was pretty stiff.  Lots of good, solid entries.


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## Bynx

Your absolutely right Josh if it doesnt turn into a popularity contest. But I scratch my head wondering what people are thinking of when they are asked to shoot a pic of a banana and they submit a picture of an apple. Even if its a gorgeous most perfect apple, its still an apple and NOT A BANANA.


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## Josh66

Bynx said:


> if it doesnt turn into a popularity contest.


 That is a possibility with a contest like this (_self_ portrait) on a forum where a lot of us know what people look like...  When I narrowed my vote down to the top two - one was a face I recognized, one wasn't.  I won't say who I voted for, but it was the one I didn't recognize because I felt it was the better self portrait.


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## Bynx

*Portrait photography* or *portraiture* is the capture by means of photography  of the likeness of a person or a small group of people (a group  portrait), in which the face and expression is predominant. The  objective is to display the likeness, personality, and even the mood of  the subject. Like other types of portraiture,  the focus of the photograph is the person's face, although the entire  body and the background may be included. A portrait is generally not a  snapshot, but a composed image of a person in a still position. A  portrait often shows a person looking directly at the camera.

So far among the top 3 most voted, only 1 is a portrait. The others are not.


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## NielsSw

Bynx said:


> *Portrait photography* or *portraiture* is the capture by means of photography  of the likeness of a person or a small group of people (a group  portrait), in which the face and expression is predominant. The  objective is to display the likeness, personality, and even the mood of  the subject. Like other types of portraiture,  the focus of the photograph is the person's face, although the entire  body and the background may be included. A portrait is generally not a  snapshot, but a composed image of a person in a still position. A  portrait often shows a person looking directly at the camera.
> 
> So far among the top 3 most voted, only 1 is a portrait. The others are not.



If the photos should follow such strict rules then they should be posted at the start of the contest. For example when I think of portrait the person does not have to look strait into the camera.

I agree though that a lot of them don't really classify as portrait.


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## Bynx

Well as long as the face is the predominant thing about the picture then its ok in my opinion. But its not supposed to be a snapshot but look posed. But at the very least there should be a dominant face feature. Shadows and bushes and silhouettes arent portraits no matter how nice the photo may look. And when someone says its to be a self portrait, then how much more clear should it be stated? But this problem with people submitting pics that dont come anywhere near what was asked is not just a problem here, but it seems to run rampant on every photo forum. It baffles me and so far I cant find an explanation. I guess since the dialogue is going on here Id like to ask those who submitted silhouettes, shadows and forests -- what were you thinking?


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## Sirashley

Bynx said:


> Well as long as the face is the predominant thing about the picture then its ok in my opinion. But its not supposed to be a snapshot but look posed. But at the very least there should be a dominant face feature. Shadows and bushes and silhouettes arent portraits no matter how nice the photo may look. And when someone says its to be a self portrait, then how much more clear should it be stated? But this problem with people submitting pics that dont come anywhere near what was asked is not just a problem here, but it seems to run rampant on every photo forum. It baffles me and so far I cant find an explanation. I guess since the dialogue is going on here Id like to ask those who submitted silhouettes, shadows and forests -- what were you thinking?



In all fairness, many of the people who submit here are new to photography. I think when most people think of a self portrait, they think of a photograph that they are in... that's it... Not a photograph that they are looking at the camera, or a photograph that they posed for. Simply a photograph that they are in. I actually appear in many of my photographs, in fact, so much so, that my own wife and family don't recognize me in the actual photograph. Take this image, for example







That's me, yet I don't see that as a self portrait. At the same time, I think many people on here would, simply because the man who fired the trigger is in the shot. Either way, it doesn't matter what you or I think, it matters what the voters think. Like I said before, many people who frequent here are new to photography, so if that is their definition, then that's what's going to win. If you want to enter challenges where people are really strict about the topic and the competition is steep then P.M. me and I'll send you the website (I don't want to seem like I'm propping up another site here so I'm not posting it publicly) Anyway, try to keep in mind that the challenge topic is really defined here by the voters, no matter what the true definition may be.


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## Bynx

Well then maybe its time they learned what a self portrait is so they can do it right the next time the subject comes up. Being new to photography isnt the same as being an idiot. I think some of the entries were a product of someone trying to be too clever and to demonstrate their thinking outside the box. Its just that some are just too clever for their own good.


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## Bitter Jeweler

Bizarre argument.


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## Bynx

Whats bizarre and who is arguing? Can you explain it?


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## Sirashley

Bynx said:


> Well then maybe its time they learned what a self portrait is so they can do it right the next time the subject comes up. Being new to photography isnt the same as being an idiot. I think some of the entries were a product of someone trying to be too clever and to demonstrate their thinking outside the box. Its just that some are just too clever for their own good.


 
Well, by this definition, then I guess Pablo Picasso and Salvador Dali were also complete and utter idiots for their self portraits... and by the way, no one here is an idiot just because they do not meet your rigid definition of a self portrait... In fact, I applaud people who push the boundaries, I certainly didn't hold it against any entries. Obviously the top three photos struck a chord with the voters, if your shot didn't, then its on you...


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## Bitter Jeweler

First, an argument is a claim supported by defensible reason. Bynx, you put forth an argument. You are arguing.

Abiding by your strict standards  would stall creativity. In the world of art, a self portrait can range from your absolute definition, all the way to an image that is a conceptual state of being with no figural representation of self at all. I don't really understand why you are miffed by this contest.


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## Bynx

Ok, lets use this challenge as an example. What's asked for is a self portrait. If not sure what that is look up the definition. And within the parameters of that definition come up with a photo. Now youre saying that by being forced to confine yourself to the definition of a self portrait that that is stalling creativity. Well how about sticking to the definition and being forced to be more creative? The point Im trying to make is that when there is a challenge and if the subject is a dog, there are people who will submit their cat, a bird, or a 56 Plymouth. And if I'm miffed as you say, Im not sure what it is over......the people who submit those things or the mods here who allow them in the challenge in the first place. If I was running this I would return the pics to those people and tell them that is not what was asked and to do it again. After seeing the attitudes of some people here Id say the challenges should just be whatever you like and most popular pic wins. Just dont ever pick a subject as that is completely arbitrary. Now that I know that I know what to expect now. So no more miffing from me.


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## gulfman1

Bynx said:


> Ok, lets use this challenge as an example. What's asked for is a self portrait. If not sure what that is look up the definition. And within the parameters of that definition come up with a photo. Now youre saying that by being forced to confine yourself to the definition of a self portrait that that is stalling creativity. Well how about sticking to the definition and being forced to be more creative? The point Im trying to make is that when there is a challenge and if the subject is a dog, there are people who will submit their cat, a bird, or a 56 Plymouth. And if I'm miffed as you say, Im not sure what it is over......the people who submit those things or the mods here who allow them in the challenge in the first place. If I was running this I would return the pics to those people and tell them that is not what was asked and to do it again. After seeing the attitudes of some people here Id say the challenges should just be whatever you like and most popular pic wins. Just dont ever pick a subject as that is completely arbitrary. Now that I know that I know what to expect now. So no more miffing from me.


 It´s this kind of argument that makes people not to participate in these kind of contests. For me the point was to try to participate in something that would have anything to do with me while being or trying to be a photographer. That was my interpretation about it If I knew that participating I was taking the chance of being called stupid or something like that I wouldn´t definitely participate.
  Congrats I believe You just took the fun of it for a lot of people


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## Bynx

My comments were started after the close of the photo submission. They are only to be voted on. Im sorry to hear that you feel, that because you cant submit anything you want, in spite of being asked for something in particular, is spoiling your fun. Maybe next time it will be a free for all.


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## Bitter Jeweler

:facepalm:


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## Sirashley

gulfman1 said:


> Bynx said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, lets use this challenge as an example. What's asked for is a self portrait. If not sure what that is look up the definition. And within the parameters of that definition come up with a photo. Now youre saying that by being forced to confine yourself to the definition of a self portrait that that is stalling creativity. Well how about sticking to the definition and being forced to be more creative? The point Im trying to make is that when there is a challenge and if the subject is a dog, there are people who will submit their cat, a bird, or a 56 Plymouth. And if I'm miffed as you say, Im not sure what it is over......the people who submit those things or the mods here who allow them in the challenge in the first place. If I was running this I would return the pics to those people and tell them that is not what was asked and to do it again. After seeing the attitudes of some people here Id say the challenges should just be whatever you like and most popular pic wins. Just dont ever pick a subject as that is completely arbitrary. Now that I know that I know what to expect now. So no more miffing from me.
> 
> 
> 
> It´s this kind of argument that makes people not to participate in these kind of contests. For me the point was to try to participate in something that would have anything to do with me while being or trying to be a photographer. That was my interpretation about it&#8230; If I knew that participating I was taking the chance of being called stupid or something like that I wouldn´t definitely participate.
> Congrats&#8230; I believe You just took the fun of it for a lot of people&#8230;
Click to expand...

 

Don't stress Gulfman, submitting a photo to a contest that was your interpretation is not stupid at all... What makes art great is that it's not bound by definition. I don't know which shot was yours, but I would gladly give you an honest opinion on it if you want. Oh and one last thing, calling out shots openly during voting is absolutely classless, and its grounds for disqualification on another site that I participate on. I would like to see that rule implemented here. Steering the voters in any direction is certainly not fair...


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## swilliams

gulfman1 said:


> Bynx said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, lets use this challenge as an example. What's asked for is a self portrait. If not sure what that is look up the definition. And within the parameters of that definition come up with a photo. Now youre saying that by being forced to confine yourself to the definition of a self portrait that that is stalling creativity. Well how about sticking to the definition and being forced to be more creative? The point Im trying to make is that when there is a challenge and if the subject is a dog, there are people who will submit their cat, a bird, or a 56 Plymouth. And if I'm miffed as you say, Im not sure what it is over......the people who submit those things or the mods here who allow them in the challenge in the first place. If I was running this I would return the pics to those people and tell them that is not what was asked and to do it again. After seeing the attitudes of some people here Id say the challenges should just be whatever you like and most popular pic wins. Just dont ever pick a subject as that is completely arbitrary. Now that I know that I know what to expect now. So no more miffing from me.
> 
> 
> 
> It´s this kind of argument that makes people not to participate in these kind of contests. For me the point was to try to participate in something that would have anything to do with me while being or trying to be a photographer. That was my interpretation about it If I knew that participating I was taking the chance of being called stupid or something like that I wouldn´t definitely participate.
> Congrats I believe You just took the fun of it for a lot of people
Click to expand...


I believe "idiot" was the term used by Bynx.  Sure makes me want to participate in any contest on this forum....NOT!!


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## Bitter Jeweler

Nah. Participate! It makes the place more fun!

It is sad to see 51 images, and 50 votes!


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## gulfman1

Bynx said:


> My comments were started after the close of the photo submission. They are only to be voted on. Im sorry to hear that you feel, that because you cant submit anything you want, in spite of being asked for something in particular, is spoiling your fun. Maybe next time it will be a free for all.



 If you really think about it unless you are able to cover all the exceptions (and that is very difficult, not to say impossible) the more you try to limit the more you open holes in your definition. Thats just how words imperfections against thoughts are noticed.
  Sometimes when you are too close to something you miss the whole picture. But that´s just my opinion.
  I thank, and analyze yours. Thats it! It´s not better or worse than mine. Its different!


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## gulfman1

Sirashley said:


> gulfman1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bynx said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, lets use this challenge as an example. What's asked for is a self portrait. If not sure what that is look up the definition. And within the parameters of that definition come up with a photo. Now youre saying that by being forced to confine yourself to the definition of a self portrait that that is stalling creativity. Well how about sticking to the definition and being forced to be more creative? The point Im trying to make is that when there is a challenge and if the subject is a dog, there are people who will submit their cat, a bird, or a 56 Plymouth. And if I'm miffed as you say, Im not sure what it is over......the people who submit those things or the mods here who allow them in the challenge in the first place. If I was running this I would return the pics to those people and tell them that is not what was asked and to do it again. After seeing the attitudes of some people here Id say the challenges should just be whatever you like and most popular pic wins. Just dont ever pick a subject as that is completely arbitrary. Now that I know that I know what to expect now. So no more miffing from me.
> 
> 
> 
> It´s this kind of argument that makes people not to participate in these kind of contests. For me the point was to try to participate in something that would have anything to do with me while being or trying to be a photographer. That was my interpretation about it If I knew that participating I was taking the chance of being called stupid or something like that I wouldn´t definitely participate.
> Congrats I believe You just took the fun of it for a lot of people
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Don't stress Gulfman, submitting a photo to a contest that was your interpretation is not stupid at all... What makes art great is that it's not bound by definition. I don't know which shot was yours, but I would gladly give you an honest opinion on it if you want. Oh and one last thing, calling out shots openly during voting is absolutely classless, and its grounds for disqualification on another site that I participate on. I would like to see that rule implemented here. Steering the voters in any direction is certainly not fair...
Click to expand...


 Well, I can´t agree with you on this one  I don´t believe that if you make a general remark about some photos without specify any specific kind or group of photos while the poll is open that can be seen as classless. As a matter of fact I don´t see how that could be considered as steering voters in other direction, opposing to expressing your opinion. And it seems to me that if the organization thought so the comments  would be closed during poll or at least it should be made brought to attention.
  Anyway, Im a rookie in this kind of contests and my main goal is to try to learn as much as I can (and I definitely believe I could learn about photography with you), but, with all due respect, it seems that you´re competing for a prize of a million! It´s definitely not my case


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## Sirashley

gulfman1 said:


> Sirashley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gulfman1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It´s this kind of argument that makes people not to participate in these kind of contests. For me the point was to try to participate in something that would have anything to do with me while being or trying to be a photographer. That was my interpretation about it If I knew that participating I was taking the chance of being called stupid or something like that I wouldn´t definitely participate.
> Congrats I believe You just took the fun of it for a lot of people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't stress Gulfman, submitting a photo to a contest that was your interpretation is not stupid at all... What makes art great is that it's not bound by definition. I don't know which shot was yours, but I would gladly give you an honest opinion on it if you want. Oh and one last thing, calling out shots openly during voting is absolutely classless, and its grounds for disqualification on another site that I participate on. I would like to see that rule implemented here. Steering the voters in any direction is certainly not fair...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, I can´t agree with you on this one  I don´t believe that if you make a general remark about some photos without specify any specific kind or group of photos while the poll is open that can be seen as classless. As a matter of fact I don´t see how that could be considered as steering voters in other direction, opposing to expressing your opinion. And it seems to me that if the organization thought so the comments  would be closed during poll or at least it should be made brought to attention.
> Anyway, Im a rookie in this kind of contests and my main goal is to try to learn as much as I can (and I definitely believe I could learn about photography with you), but, with all due respect, it seems that you´re competing for a prize of a million! It´s definitely not my case
Click to expand...

 

Oh don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with making general remarks about images... but in one of the posts, the 3 images with the most votes were directly called out, well at least 2 of the three... and that's not right... Other shots were mentioned specifically as well. It could influence the way that people vote, and that's not fair. Its not about the prize, or even placing 1,2,or three. Its about making sure that voters vote on how the image impacted them, not how it impacted someone else. Personally, I would like to the voting results withheld until the end of the challenge. That way, no one knows who is winning until the end. I think it would keep it more interesting... Just my two cents though, I don't think you would like it if someone said that your image (specifically) didn't meet the topic while voting was still open, its really no better than coming on and saying, "Vote for image 5 because it meets the challenge the best..." We can agree to disagree if you like


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## Bynx

Im with you 100%. It might not have been right to point out the top 3 pics, however that changed as voting continued. Nothing should influence anyone's voting and Id like to see the results at the end when its over. Then we can grumble. But I see quite a number of really good self portraits that didnt get a vote, while at the same time some are voting for pics that should have been disqualified. Its not fair in my opinion to those people who did a good job and how discouraging is that? So I guess this is just a popularity contest and not one based on the aspects of ones entry.


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## Bitter Jeweler

Popularity contest? Really?


But please, do post more of your insight. It's verrrrry interesting.


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## Bynx

Bitter Jeweler I wish you would spend half the effort to make comments on peoples photo entries than you do making useless comments on my opinions. I see many entries begging for someone to say something. There are many legitimate self portraits being ignored here. Not even everyone who has posted a pic has voted. This is a really strange forum.


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## Bitter Jeweler

Bynx said:


> Bitter Jeweler I wish you would spend half the effort to make comments on peoples photo entries than you do making useless comments on my opinions. I see many entries begging for someone to say something. There are many legitimate self portraits being ignored here. Not even everyone who has posted a pic has voted. This is a really strange forum.


I don't see the contest forum as a place to critique images. 
There's the difference, I don't see images begging for anyone to say anything.
Portraits being ignored? Because they weren't voted for?
How do you know who voted and who didn't?
I'll give you this...I did NOT vote. Soooo sorry. Is this a sin or against the rules?
Are you going to pretend that all the votes are only from the entrants? Is there proof of this?

Do go on.


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## Sirashley

Bynx I completely agree with you when you say we should be leaving comments and critiques, but the problem is that those comments can be seen by the voters in voting. After voting is when comments should be made, but let's be real, its hard enough to get people to come here and vote, let alone get them to come back to comment after the contest...Although this site is not perfect, I invite you to check out the other site I participate in. I try not to prop up other sites on here, but the sake of this argument  

DPChallenge - A Digital Photography Contest



I think as far as challenges go, this website has really got a great hold on it. You vote on entries on a 1-10 basis, you can comment on the entires, but only the photographer can see them until the challenge is over. If you enter a photo of a rock in a self-portrait challenge, you will get 15 comments that say "DNMC" which is "Does Not Meet Challenge", your image will be torched, and you will finish last place somewhere in the 3.5 vicinity. You also are not allowed to vote on your photo. Lastly, there is no prize, other than the coveted Virtual Ribbon. The competition is steep and many on the site are professionals who make a living at photography and have more value in gear than my car is worth...The beauty of this site is that everyone gets feedback on their images and its a great tool for learning, albeit it requires some thick skin...

Oh and I got my first ribbon for second place a few weeks back with this entry 

The Hermit by Sirashley - DPChallenge


So that's why Bynx, I have suggested before that we go to a system where every photo gets a vote of 1-10 and the highest average wins. That way, everyone gets feedback on their image. Unfortunately, I don't think its possible with this forum. You are right when you said that its sad that people took very good self-portraits and didn't receive a vote. I don't care what kind of shot it is, its discouraging not to get a vote, but that's kinda the limitation we have, and you have to understand that when you enter that you may not get a single vote.


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## Bynx

The problem when trying to explain oneself here is the loss in translation. When I mentioned making comments I was referring to Bitter Jeweler taking the time to post a comment on my opinion, rather than being more productive and making a comment on someone's photo posted elsewhere in the site. I have been a member of a similar challenge setup as DPChallenge. Comments made were only seen by the photographer. The comments Ive made here would have been made to those specific people who posted pics which arent what was asked for. Ive been around for a while and just get tired of people doing whatever they want when something specific is asked of them. I seem to be in a minority about that since some seem to disagree and feel its okay to post whatever you want as long as you are having fun. It just saddens me to see a couple of really good self portraits having 1 vote at best when they should clearly be in the top 2 or 3 spots. And what with the lack of voting. As Bitter Jeweler said -- 51 entries and 50 votes. Where is member participation? Even if you didnt vote and you are a member, what harm does it do to vote? I hope at the last minute things pick up and those people get some recognition. By the way thanks for that link. Ive bookmarked it and plan to join later.


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## Bitter Jeweler

Maybe YOUR time would be put to better use commenting on photos where people *are asking for critique*, than complaining about 3 images that don't fit YOUR defintion of a self portrait in this contest.

BTW, things won't "pick up" at the last minute, since the poll is closed, as stated in the first post of the thread.


I also think it's pretty ballsy to complain about entries before the poll was closed, and the tell me, basically, that I am not allowed to reply with my opinion about what you have said.


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## Chris of Arabia

With so many submissions for this Challenge, it was always going to be difficult to get a clear cut winner, however I think we succeeded regardless.

In first place we have tomdinning with







In joint 2nd place we have Bynx with






and Renata-Brazil with







Thanks to everyone who took part or voted in this Challenge and special congratulations go to our winner. A PM will be in the post to you shortly.

Good luck to everyone for the March Challenge and give the April comp a go to everyone.View attachment 3240


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## tomdinning

Sorry I'm a bit late in replying. Life seems to be getting away from me. Too much time behind the camera.
Thanks for the votes and complement. I'm sure it was for the image and not for the face.
I've read through the comments throughout this forum and find them interesting.
Portraits, especially self-portraits is what I do a lot of. The portraits are for other people and the self-portraits are for teaching purposes and self expression.
Contrary to what Bynx implies, there is no 'definition' of a portrait. In a competition you can stipulate conditions but that's not 'defining'. Stating 'usage', 'common practise' and 'application' is what we do when we look for a 'definition'. That's why dictionaries have a variety of meanings for a single word and those meanings change with time.
In the 180 years or so people have been taking pictures of people the concept of a portrait has evolved. We do understand that the face is an important part of knowing who a person is but its not the only way. Parts of the face, parts of a recognisable body, an action, a concept (like a shadow) can all portray a person. The mere suggestion of who a person is can now be acceptable as a portrait.
I'm sure Bynx means well and it may be easier for him to identify a portrait if he sees a face but prescribing such rigid parameters on a simple exercise as this prevents us from seeing what people can do with an idea. Its not about creativity. People will be creative without this forum. This is about sharing ideas. Bynx might take on board the broad scope of portraiture if he looks at what others perceive and not fix himself with the narrower perspective he is demonstrating.
Thanks guys.


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## Bitter Jeweler

Congrats Tom!

And excellent post.


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## Bynx

The dictionary definition: A *portrait* is a painting, photograph, sculpture, or other artistic representation of a person, in which the face and its expression is predominant. So a self portrait is self explanatory. The key is the face to be predominant. That seems simple enough to me to understand and its narrow enough in its meaning to make it a challenge to come up with something different. I guess though that when there are challenges like these that people will interpret the theme any way that suits them and they will submit whatever they feel like submitting. Ive been seeing this for so long now I just got fed up and thought I should say something. But I should also know better than to try to say anything at all. My condolences to those who submitted really good self portraits and received few or no votes at all. In particular 3, 7, 14, 20, 22, 25, 26, 29, 37, 40, 42, and 46.


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## Bitter Jeweler

Just stop, would ya?


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## Bynx

Are you the forum spokesperson. If not, then just ignore me.


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## Bitter Jeweler

Bynx said:


> Are you the forum spokesperson. If not, then just ignore me.


 Yeah, that probably would be best.


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## tomdinning

Bitter Jeweler said:


> Bynx said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you the forum spokesperson. If not, then just ignore me.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, that probably would be best.
Click to expand...

 
My wife tells me I'm a stubborn, pig headed old bugger because I always expect people will listen to my words of wisdom and see the light. 'It's not going to happen' she says. 'After all these years of teaching photography, you must have got the message by now. Some people's minds are as clamped shut as a greyhound on a stuffed rabbit. Even when the rabbit is just a stuffed toy they don't let go. And after they have swallowed it, they still lick their lips as if it was the real thing. Let them swallow it. They'll still have that empty feeling in their stomach.'
A wise woman, my wife.


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## molested_cow

tomdinning said:


> My wife tells me I'm a stubborn, pig headed old bugger because I always expect people will listen to my words of wisdom and see the light. 'It's not going to happen' she says. 'After all these years of teaching photography, you must have got the message by now. Some people's minds are as clamped shut as a greyhound on a stuffed rabbit. Even when the rabbit is just a stuffed toy they don't let go. And after they have swallowed it, they still lick their lips as if it was the real thing. Let them swallow it. They'll still have that empty feeling in their stomach.'
> A wise woman, my wife.



If she's an author I will buy her book. If she's a blogger I'll make it my ritual to read it every day.


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## tomdinning

molested_cow said:


> tomdinning said:
> 
> 
> 
> My wife tells me I'm a stubborn, pig headed old bugger because I always expect people will listen to my words of wisdom and see the light. 'It's not going to happen' she says. 'After all these years of teaching photography, you must have got the message by now. Some people's minds are as clamped shut as a greyhound on a stuffed rabbit. Even when the rabbit is just a stuffed toy they don't let go. And after they have swallowed it, they still lick their lips as if it was the real thing. Let them swallow it. They'll still have that empty feeling in their stomach.'
> A wise woman, my wife.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If she's an author I will buy her book. If she's a blogger I'll make it my ritual to read it every day.
Click to expand...


You can't have her. She's mine. She's a constant inspiration to me. She inspires me by giving me a swift kick up the @#$%# when I get out of line. Nothing is more motivational than the threat of being locked in the dungeon without my camera.


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## Bangarang Rufio

Well maybe I have no place to reply here as I am not as experienced as others when it comes to photography, but the way I see it, if there were really specific rules for what kind of photo we were supposed to be submitting, wouldn't Chris have been more specific about what he was looking for? I mean, he asked for a self portrait, and for the photo to help us to improve the way we take pictures.. So if we took a picture of ourselves, and we learned from the experience, wouldn't it fit the criteria? 

Everybody is going to have a different opinion of what a self portrait is supposed to be, and perhaps if it really bothers you that much, it would be best to go right to the one organizing the photo challenge.. Complaining to everyone else surely won't help to change the way the contest is going. 

Just what I've been thinking after reading through this thread.


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