# Best way to get clinets?



## sactown024 (Aug 27, 2012)

I am starting to get pretty comfortable with my camera and starting to to get a decent portfolio, I was wondering if anyone has any input on the best way to get new clients. Mainly looking to do portraits, maternity, model, senior photos, anything people related really. any help would be appreciated, thanks.


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## pixmedic (Aug 27, 2012)

Take out a 30-60 second TV spot and do a nice commercial on a local TV station.


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## KmH (Aug 27, 2012)

You attract prospects/customers by applying business skills and $$$'s to marketing, promotion, and advertising. Customers that pay for your service/products then become clients.

Successful businesses usually begin with a well researched, written business and marketing plan.

A market segment and customer demographic is chosen to target the business marketing, promotion, and advertising to.

Starting & Managing a Business | SBA.gov
www.score.org


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## MLeeK (Aug 27, 2012)

Weren't you just having a problem focusing this past week and were using all of the focus points in your camera. Not to mention that you were clueless with how to change the focus points or mode in your brand  new camera? 
You bought your camera at the end of July. You are NOT ready for a 'client.'


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## tirediron (Aug 27, 2012)

sactown024 said:


> I am starting to get pretty comfortable with my camera and starting to to get a decent portfolio, I was wondering if anyone has any input on the best way to get new clients. *Mainly looking to do portraits, maternity, model, senior photos,* anything people related really. any help would be appreciated, thanks.


Sooooo... specializing in "everything"?  This probably isn't the most effective strategy right out of the gate.  As mentioned there's a LOT more to it than "getting customers".  Are you even ready for customers if you did get them?  Do you have your tax, licensing and insurance sorted?  Are your skills up to dealing with the "white shirt & black trousers and I HAVE to do the shoot at noon" client?  

Before you put dollar one into marketing, you need to have a target demographic.  Have you researched your area to find out which areas of the ones you mentioned are over-serviced and which are under-serviced?  How much money do you have to put into marketing (advertising)?  Is your website up and ready to go?  SEO optimized?


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## tirediron (Aug 27, 2012)

MLeeK said:


> Weren't you just having a problem focusing this past week and were using all of the focus points in your camera. Not to mention that you were clueless with how to change the focus points or mode in your brand new camera?
> You bought your camera at the end of July. You are NOT ready for a 'client.'


How the <Hades> do you keep track of all that???????  I can't even remember what I had for breakfast and you remember every single freakin' post everyone here made...    I hate you!


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## MLeeK (Aug 27, 2012)

I couldn't forget his first images post. There are only a few people I have been answering regularly and he is one of them lately.


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## Derrel (Aug 27, 2012)

Start SMALL, with jobs you are actually capable of doing decently. There are hundreds of different types of photo gigs...shoot some, of a type that YOU CAN DO decently, and work upward from there. If your work is decent, you will get referrals. MANY people seem to trade photographer recommendations like, oh, I dunno...like hairstylist recommendations, or what have you. "I know a guy who..."


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## cgipson1 (Aug 27, 2012)

MLeeK said:


> Weren't you just having a problem focusing this past week and were using all of the focus points in your camera. Not to mention that you were clueless with how to change the focus points or mode in your brand  new camera?
> You bought your camera at the end of July. You are NOT ready for a 'client.'



I am glad you said this.. so I didn't have to! 

AUTO and PROGRAM do NOT a photographer MAKE!


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## Derrel (Aug 27, 2012)

Again...start with jobs that Y_O_U can successfully complete. You're not ready for any commercial small product jobs, or weddings, or that type of thing....but surely you can snap a kid portrait session. Or shoot a decent photo of a buddy's hot rod project car, or boat. "Baby steps" + "sink or swim", combined, ya know?


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## Tee (Aug 27, 2012)

Sac- rather than calling them "clients", why not focus on building a portfolio?  You can sign up to Model Mayhem and seek out working models?  It's an outlet to continue to build a body of work. Or, put an ad on Craigslist in the creative section with a link to your work.


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## Steve5D (Aug 27, 2012)

Don't let anyone tell you "You're not ready". More often than not, such comments come from people who think they should be working themselves, but aren't. Basically, since they can't get anyone to pay _them_, they don't want you finding people to pay _you_.

Something about misery loving company, I guess.

Anyway, along with the naysayers, there are also good pieces of advice here.

The easiest way to get clients is, in my experience, networking. Knowing people who know people can go a long way but, when the rubber hits the road, you'd better be able to back it up with quality work. While some here may suggest that "you're not ready" for clients, the only people who can _truly _make that determination are your _potential _clients. Are people willing to hire you? THAT'S what will determine whether or not you're ready, not what someone with some made-up user name on some internet forum says.

Your portfolio is your resume. I once had to hire a photographer. He showed me his actual resume. It listed all of his formal training, yadayadayada. While I don't recall the specifics, I remember thinking "Okay, looks good". When I asked to see his portfolio, though, he hesitated. That's when I knew it was all going south. He was not proud of his portfolio, and with good reason. The guy was a hack. While his resume looked good, his portfolio looked like it was shot by my eight year old nephew.

Just about every city in America seems to have at least one photography group these days (ie: Meet Up, etc). Join one. Go to a meeting and ask to have some of the more seasoned folks critique your portfolio. I've done it here in San Diego, and have been on both sides of the critiquing process. It's value cannot be over-stated.

As you start gaining clients, "word of mouth" will start. That type of advertising cannot be purchased, and it's weighty as Hell. Ergo, when someone speaks of you and your photography, you want it to be positive. Learn to not only work your camera and take quality photographs, but learn how to work with people. Learn how to effectively communicate. That's something which, frankly, a lot of people struggle with. The important thing to remember is that, despite how good your work might be, if you're a boorish lout to deal with, your phone won't ring and you won't get hired.

Read Dale Carnegie's book "How To Win Friends And Influence People". It will tell you absolutely _nothing _about photography, but you'll be hard pressed to find a better resource for dealing with people.

Good luck...


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## Steve5D (Aug 27, 2012)

tirediron said:


> How the <Hades> do you keep track of all that???????



I think it's called "obssessing"...


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## tirediron (Aug 27, 2012)

Steve5D said:


> Don't let anyone tell you "You're not ready". More often than not, such comments come from people who think they should be working themselves, but aren't.


Sorry Steve, but I have to disagree with you.  Most of the people who make such comments are if not working professionals, at least knowledgable enough to venture an opinion.  If a person has not yet acquired the skills to deal with general photography, nor has their business side sorted, then they're NOT ready.  How many Craig's List and/or Facebook "businesses have licenses, insurance, etc?  Picking up a camera and being able to take a picture that the average person deems "okay" does NOT mean you are ready to hang up your shingle.


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## jamesbjenkins (Aug 27, 2012)

Steve5D said:
			
		

> Don't let anyone tell you "You're not ready"...



Steve, I couldn't disagree with you more. Lord knows friends and family are completely biased, and thus can't be trusted to offer objective commentary. I put a lot more stock in the opinion of several of the members here than I do in most of the people I know in person.

As someone who's grown my client base every year I've been in business, I'd hope somebody just starting would at least consider advice I give them.


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## Steve5D (Aug 27, 2012)

tirediron said:


> Steve5D said:
> 
> 
> > Don't let anyone tell you "You're not ready". More often than not, such comments come from people who think they should be working themselves, but aren't.
> ...



This is one of the main problems with this forum. The OP didn't ask if he was ready, he asked how to get clients. Such a question can be answered pretty effectively without knowing if someone has a tax ID number or insurance. 

I can guarantee you that I, and probably most others here, have never had a client who really cared about a business plan.

He asked how to get clients, not if he was ready. If he's not currently ready, then the question can be answered from the perspective of when he is ready.

I stand by my opinion. Those who whine about others trying to get paying customers, generally speaking, are unable to get paying customers for themselves...


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## Steve5D (Aug 27, 2012)

jamesbjenkins said:


> Steve, I couldn't disagree with you more. Lord knows friends and family are completely biased, and thus can't be trusted to offer objective commentary.



I disagree.

My brother, my daughter and I are all working photographers. We rip each other to shreds when it comes to each other's work. If I ask another family member about something I've shot, they will invariably say "What does your brother think of it?".

The idea that family is going to be coddling is silly...



> I put a lot more stock in the opinion of several of the members here than I do in most of the people I know in person.



I don't. Not even close...



> As someone who's grown my client base every year I've been in business, I'd hope somebody just starting would at least consider advice I give them.



Really?

Cool.

Maybe I missed it, though. 

Exactly what advice have you offered him?


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## The_Traveler (Aug 27, 2012)

Steve5D said:


> I stand by my opinion. Those who whine about others trying to get paying customers, generally speaking, are unable to get paying customers for themselves...



Dear Steve,

You are absolutely right to have your own opinion about what to tell this guy.
However, you don't know crap about the lives, abilities of those who are giving their opinion that this guy isn't ready - and shouldn't be looking for clients.

I'm not a pro, don't care to be, don't need the money.
But I can look at what he knows from his posts and I can tell he that he will be taking money under false pretenses if he puts himself out to the public as a photographer.

If you think he's good enough and ready to shoot small jobs, perhaps you ought to hire him.


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## fotomumma09 (Aug 27, 2012)

Yikes this thread is gonna be a hot one! 

To the OP....I'm my humble opinion about building a client base....WORD OF MOUTH and referrals. All of which come SLOWLY as your skill level increases! Of course you need your ducks in a row with insurance/business license and all that stuff. But if you're the real deal and price yourself competitively you shouldn't have to do much to build your business. Just take your time and enjoy the art good luck


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## 2WheelPhoto (Aug 27, 2012)

MLeeK said:


> Weren't you just having a problem* focusing this past week and were using all of the focus points in your camera. Not to mention that you were clueless with how to change the focus points or mode in your brand  new camera*?
> You bought your camera at the end of July. You are NOT ready for a 'client.'



Such minor details don't matter once a big watermark and FB page has been employed


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## Steve5D (Aug 27, 2012)

The_Traveler said:


> But I can look at what he knows from his posts and I can tell he that he will be taking money under false pretenses if he puts himself out to the public as a photographer.



If he and a prospective client agree on terms, and the potential client does their due diligence, there are no false pretenses. The only way there would be would be if he said "I'm a seasoned, experienced professional with years of shooting under my belt.". If he says "I'm new, but I'm pretty good", and he is, then there is no false pretense...



> If you think he's good enough and ready to shoot small jobs, perhaps you ought to hire him.




Yeah, see, idiotic comments such as that add nothing.

Find one place where I said he was ready. Just one.

Let me help ya' out there, Chief: YOU CAN'T.

I simply told him not to let a bunch on anonymous usernames on the internet tell him he's _not _ready.

And, again, "Am I ready?" was not the question...


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## Steve5D (Aug 27, 2012)

The_Traveler said:


> However, you don't know crap about the lives, abilities of those who are giving their opinion that this guy isn't ready - and shouldn't be looking for clients.




Really?

One of those people has been averaging over 400 posts per month since joining. I would lay a bet that _that _poster spends far more time here than he (or she) does shooting for paying clients...


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## MTVision (Aug 27, 2012)

Steve5D said:
			
		

> I disagree.
> 
> My brother, my daughter and I are all working photographers. We rip each other to shreds when it comes to each other's work. If I ask another family member about something I've shot, they will invariably say "What does your brother think of it?".
> 
> ...



Ummm for the average family - yeah they will/can be coddling. 

Your family (brother and daughter) are all working photographers so yeah they probably wouldn't coddle you. Unfortunately not everyone is that lucky....


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## MK3Brent (Aug 27, 2012)

I love this forum... No one ever answers the original questions, just straight to whatever it is someone else feels like talking about. 

The best way to get new clients, is good word of mouth... and great photos reaching far through social media. 
Shoot a lot... Shoot a lot for free, and let your content branch off in 100 different directions to all kinds of people, and they'll contact you.


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## Steve5D (Aug 27, 2012)

MK3Brent said:


> I love this forum... No one ever answers the original questions, just straight to whatever it is someone else feels like talking about.



Exactly...


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## Rwsphotos (Aug 27, 2012)

As one of the useless online forum names and one still building my client base I have to agree with most of the above statements.  Putting your cart before the horse will only comeback and bite you.  If I hired a photographer the words comfortable with my camera would be a warning sign.  I'm with tiredon tax id, insurance, business licence are important to worry about at this stage.  Professionally speaking those should come first. Waiting till you have a client with a wedding in a venue that requires either one or all of those for you to shoot there is unproductive, unprofessional and inconvenient for both you and your client.   Your best advertising is word of mouth but if you are running around behind the scenes like a chicken with your head cutoff it will show.   Word of mouth Is your friend but can be your biggest enemy as well.


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## Steve5D (Aug 27, 2012)

Rwsphotos said:


> If I hired a photographer the words comfortable with my camera would be a warning sign.




But, if you hired him, who would bear the burden for mediocre photos? The guy who took them and told you he was "comfortable" with his camera, or you for deciding to hire such a person?


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## MK3Brent (Aug 27, 2012)

We're just going in circles here... I think that's the definition of something.


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## Rwsphotos (Aug 27, 2012)

For someone who doesn't like smartass comments you give a lot.  I have seen enough substandard work that one I wouldn't hire a photographer without seeing a portfolio, and list of equipment to be used. Don't take me for a fool. If I felt it necessary I would get references as well.  I'm  saying the op has a responsibility to their business to make sure all I's are dotted and T' s crossed.  Since you see no need for the poster to worry about such things I hope you'll be the one dishing out legal advice when it comes back to bite them.  You complain no one everhelps around here. What about you?  Howbout handing out usefully advice to posters instead of picking fights with those if us trying to help.


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## czach2012 (Aug 27, 2012)

"tirediron" I think you should stop giving people advice when you don't have the work to back it up... have you not looked at your crappy website lately...? it's hard to believe YOU have clients... just saying


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## SCraig (Aug 27, 2012)

I think a good place to start would be to properly spell the word "clinets".


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## 2WheelPhoto (Aug 27, 2012)

Yeah this thread makes me LoL


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## jamesbjenkins (Aug 27, 2012)

Steve5D said:
			
		

> I disagree.
> 
> My brother, my daughter and I are all working photographers. We rip each other to shreds when it comes to each other's work. If I ask another family member about something I've shot, they will invariably say "What does your brother think of it?".
> 
> ...



Wow. I basically say that the opinions of some members here are valuable, and that's your response?

You know, come to think of it, there's a reason you weren't one of the members I was referring to.


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## pgriz (Aug 27, 2012)

sactown024 said:


> I am starting to get pretty comfortable with my camera and starting to to get a decent portfolio, I was wondering if anyone has any input on the best way to get new clients. Mainly looking to do portraits, maternity, model, senior photos, anything people related really. any help would be appreciated, thanks.



The best way to get "new" clients is to make sure your "old" clients are happy with the work you've done for them. 

Clients implies money has been exchanged.  Exchange of money is a commercial activity, regulated by states and provinces, and generally require a business entity, tax numbers, liability insurance, permits, and formal contracts.  

Provision of business services (photography in this case), also implies costs (operating and capital), and a pricing model that is suitable for the target market, and results in a profit for the operator of the said business.  Successful businesses almost always have a plan (that KmH alluded to) that allow they to determine which market they are going after, clear approach to paying for and carrying out the marketing activity, a well-organized production flow, and a thought-out administrative structure that handles contacts, money, commitments, and deliverables.

Typically, the production part of a small business occupies about 20% of the operator's time and effort, with the balance being more or less evenly split between marketing and administration.

The production side of photography includes the lighting, staging, posing, photographying, editing, and creating the deliverables.  Being comfortable with the camera takes care of about 10% of the production flow.  

My sugggestion is to keep at working at your skill set.  Add the other components to be able to deliver photography services.  Do not start charging until you have the business side taken care of, because the sale of services is a taxable activity, and the states/provinces are very particular about collecting what's theirs.

The other way to approach this is to have "models" instead of clients.  Here the assumption is that you will exchange your services (images) for their participation and posing.  Even here, it is better to have the model releases, contracts, etc. in place just in case your interpretation of the exchange is not matched by your "model".


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## Steve5D (Aug 27, 2012)

Rwsphotos said:


> For someone who doesn't like smartass comments you give a lot.  I have seen enough substandard work that one I wouldn't hire a photographer without seeing a portfolio, and list of equipment to be used. Don't take me for a fool. If I felt it necessary I would get references as well.  I'm  saying the op has a responsibility to their business to make sure all I's are dotted and T' s crossed.  Since you see no need for the poster to worry about such things I hope you'll be the one dishing out legal advice when it comes back to bite them.  You complain no one everhelps around here. What about you?  Howbout handing out usefully advice to posters instead of picking fights with those if us trying to help.



I'll assume you're talking to me, as I'm the one who's taken a position which is clearly counter to yours. It's hard to tell, though, because you seem challenged by the "quote" feature.

I've not said a single thing with regards to whether or not the OP needs to worry about such things. I believe he absolutely does. I defy you to point out any statement, made by me, that states the OP shouldn't be concerned with those things. I never said such a thing, hence your comment about me "dishing out legal advice" is idiotic.

My simple point, which was quite obviously a big ol' curve ball for you, is that the OP didn't ask anything _remotely _pertaining to the actual mechanics (license, insurance, business plan, etc) behind having a business. The question was quite simple. "How do I get clients?" The question can be answered the same whether it's asked by someone who got his camera yesterday, or someone who's been shooting for ten years, and has done everything necessary to run a legitimate business. People here, though, like to fluff their feathers. Why? Because they're not getting hired and they're bitter, that's why.

A client is not going to be impressed by whether or not you have a tax ID number, or insurance, or a viable business plan. It won't happen. And, if it does, that's a client who's so damned anal retentive any sane person wouldn't want to deal with him anyway.

You seem to view advice that's different than yours as not being advice at all. Well, perhaps that's the case in RwsPhotosland but, in the real world, one piece of advice is as valid as the next. It's up to the individual requesting it what has value and what does not...


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## Steve5D (Aug 27, 2012)

jamesbjenkins said:


> Wow. I basically say that the opinions of some members here are valuable, and that's your response?



No, you basically said that you would expect others to heed your advice because you've been successful. 

But, yet, you hadn't (and still have not) offered a single word of advice to the OP...



> You know, come to think of it, there's a reason you weren't one of the members I was referring to.



Yeah, I don't care.

See, you definitely were one of the ones I refer to when I speak of some people "fluffing their feathers". You come across as though your input is so valuable yet, upon inspection, we see that you've actually made no input at all.

If I'm wrong, please point out the post in this thread where you offered the OP advice.

Take a look above at the post by pgriz. That's the kind of advice the OP is looking for. Such advice can be offered independent of the OP having a business license...


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## bladerunner (Aug 28, 2012)

I think it would be really good to try and envision what mindset your client will be in and target them with a specific portfolio collection. For example, someone searching for wedding photography will most likely be the bride and her mom. They'll want to see pictures of dresses, flowers, smiling people, etc.


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## tirediron (Aug 28, 2012)

Steve5D said:


> MK3Brent said:
> 
> 
> > I love this forum... No one ever answers the original questions, just straight to whatever it is someone else feels like talking about.
> ...



Really?



tirediron said:


> Sooooo... specializing in "everything"? This probably isn't the most effective strategy right out of the gate. As mentioned there's a LOT more to it than "getting customers". Are you even ready for customers if you did get them? Do you have your tax, licensing and insurance sorted? Are your skills up to dealing with the "white shirt & black trousers and I HAVE to do the shoot at noon" client?
> 
> *Before you put dollar one into marketing, you need to have a target demographic. Have you researched your area to find out which areas of the ones you mentioned are over-serviced and which are under-serviced? How much money do you have to put into marketing (advertising)? Is your website up and ready to go? SEO optimized?*



I certainly questioned the OPs readiness to take on clients, because, based on my knowledge and experience and his/her questions, it was my belief that he/she wasn't ready, however, if you re-read the bolded portion of my post, you will see that I have (and yes I phrased the advice in the form of questions, naughty me) told the OP exactly what must be done.  You can't get clients until you know what clients you want to get, and then you have to market to them... I'm pretty sure that's Business 100 stuff, isn't it?  What's more basic than that? 

Everyone says, "Word of mouth", however until you've had a few clients to spread that word, it's not terribly effective.


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## Tamgerine (Aug 28, 2012)

If I asked someone how to free dive, I would hope that they wouldn't just tell me, "Hold your breath and swim!" and nothing else. 

I personally don't see advice as only answering the question someone has asked - but being able to offer a separate perspective and bring up things that maybe haven't been noticed or considered yet. 

The fact of the matter is that everything that has been mentioned relates to being able to get clients. A big part of getting clients comes down to being able to deliver a consistent, quality experience to everyone. This include your business skills. If you get audited by the IRS and have to shut down your business, canceling on three weddings you had booked, well that isn't a consistent and quality experience. If your business runs risk of being shut down or financially bankrupt by an accident because you didn't have insurance, again there goes your consistent, quality experience. 

You also have to ask yourself, "Who do I want to take pictures of?" If your answer is, "Everyone with money!" Well that really isn't that good of an answer. Everyone with money buys forks. But which people buy luxury, designer forks? I guarantee you if your put your thousand dollar, luxury forks in a WalMart they won't get sold very well. Likewise, you can't try and sell pans to someone who wants to buy forks. You could, but you'll have a small rate of success. So you need to specialize towards the people you want to sell to. If you have to shoot everyone under the sun, target different marketing campaigns towards them and where they go. Brides in magazines and at expos, seniors at the mall, models at the salon, it all depends. 

But again, factor in your consistent, quality experience. If you're just not as good of a baby photographer as you are a wedding photographer, maybe you should consider focusing on one and deliver your quality there rather than risk unhappy customers where you aren't as strong. 

Food for thought!


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## tirediron (Aug 28, 2012)

Tamgerine said:


> If I asked someone how to free dive, I would hope that they wouldn't just tell me, "Hold your breath and swim!" and nothing else.
> ...
> 
> Food for thought!


Outstanding post Tammy!


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## gsgary (Aug 28, 2012)

You need to use Facebook all Best Buy photographers use it


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## Steve5D (Aug 28, 2012)

Tamgerine said:


> I personally don't see advice as only answering the question someone has asked - but being able to offer a separate perspective and bring up things that maybe haven't been noticed or considered yet.



The problem is that there are those who simply ignore the question altogether (which you have _not _done, by the way).

If someone asks a question, why not attempt to answer it? There have been more than just a couple of replies here which completely ignore the question. These are the people who I suspect are the ones who want to tell others how to go about earning money in photography while, at the same time, are failures at doing it themselves...


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## Steve5D (Aug 28, 2012)

Tamgerine said:


> The fact of the matter is that everything that has been mentioned relates to being able to get clients. A big part of getting clients comes down to being able to deliver a consistent, quality experience to everyone. This include your business skills. If you get audited by the IRS and have to shut down your business, canceling on three weddings you had booked, well that isn't a consistent and quality experience. If your business runs risk of being shut down or financially bankrupt by an accident because you didn't have insurance, again there goes your consistent, quality experience.



Sorry, but that falls a little short.

If he's audited and has to shut down and cancel three weddings, I'm gonna' go out on a limb and guess that he already _had _clients.

He wants to know how to get them in the first place.

Again, a potential client isn't going to care an iota about your "business". The client is going to care that you're able to produce and deliver a product. Period.

Has anyone here _ever _been queried by a potential client about a business plan? 

Anyone?

Bueller?


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## pixmedic (Aug 28, 2012)

Steve5D said:


> Tamgerine said:
> 
> 
> > The fact of the matter is that everything that has been mentioned relates to being able to get clients. A big part of getting clients comes down to being able to deliver a consistent, quality experience to everyone. This include your business skills. If you get audited by the IRS and have to shut down your business, canceling on three weddings you had booked, well that isn't a consistent and quality experience. If your business runs risk of being shut down or financially bankrupt by an accident because you didn't have insurance, again there goes your consistent, quality experience.
> ...



well actually...in a manor of speaking, yes. yes we have. 
not on a business PLAN per se, but on business PRACTICE.
not by the client directly, but by the venue. 
a church actually, that said any photographer  shooting a wedding in their church HAD to prove they had liability insurance or they weren't allowed to shoot there. I dont know if it was because it was a big church, or they did a lot of weddings, or they were  just covering all their bases, but that would be a bad time to have to explain to the pastor, AND the client, that you dont have insurance and therefor cant shoot their wedding. also a case where word of mouth could be negative.

also Steve5D, I tend to agree with you on this one...this thread got a hair off track. I will try and steer it  slightly back towards the right direction. 
one of the easiest ways to drum up some business, especially for portraits or even weddings, is to print some nice 4x6 cards or pamphlets,  get in with 
some nice salons, wedding apparel stores, or other such places and leave your material there. cheap to get printed, easy to place, and seems to be a pretty decent way to get the phone ringing.


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## AceCo55 (Aug 28, 2012)

I'm sure the OP - if he is still around - would have greatly appreciated the feedback that addressed his question.
One of the purposes of a forum, I would hope, is to provide support/encouragement/information to others with an interest in photography.
Well done Steve 5D for doing just that.

Might be worth remembering if the feedback being given is helpful or hurtful


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## pgriz (Aug 28, 2012)

Steve5D said:


> Tamgerine said:
> 
> 
> > The fact of the matter is that everything that has been mentioned relates to being able to get clients. A big part of getting clients comes down to being able to deliver a consistent, quality experience to everyone. This include your business skills. If you get audited by the IRS and have to shut down your business, canceling on three weddings you had booked, well that isn't a consistent and quality experience. If your business runs risk of being shut down or financially bankrupt by an accident because you didn't have insurance, again there goes your consistent, quality experience.
> ...



Finding clients is an essential part of any business.  But finding the "right" clients is often the difference between having a good business and one that leaves you with no time, and/or no money.  Just as possessing photographic skills (along with talent) is closely tied to producing good images, having business skills is also closely related to the success of the business.  Planning is a key element of any business, and the business plan pulls together the planning for marketing, sales, production, financing, risk management, and administration.  Figuring out who the "right" clients are, where to find them, how to attract them, and how to service them are all things that a good business plan will address.  Often, once one is putting together such a plan, one realizes that there are huge assumptions being made that need to be verified - that is where market analysis and competition analysis play an important role.

The above applies to a one-person operation as well as to something that is larger (eg, startup business with partners).  The saying is...  If you fail to plan, you plan to fail.

The OP has just started doing photography.  He is looking to earning some money doing this, and that is good, as a longer-term goal.  But there is a lot of additional knowledge and skills he has to learn to be able to offer a good product.  That applies just as much to the business side as to the photography.  So I don't see how bringing up the necessity for some planning to be "not answering" the OP's request for how to find clients.


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## MK3Brent (Aug 28, 2012)

Tamgerine said:


> If I asked someone how to free dive, I would hope that they wouldn't just tell me, "Hold your breath and swim!" and nothing else.



And if the question was "How do I buy more swimming speedos?" We would have said ask around and find the best store... 

What's your point?


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## 2WheelPhoto (Aug 28, 2012)

gsgary said:


> You need to use Facebook all Best Buy photographers use it



^^^^^^^^^


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## Steve5D (Aug 28, 2012)

pgriz said:


> The OP has just started doing photography.  He is looking to earning some money doing this, and that is good, as a longer-term goal.  But there is a lot of additional knowledge and skills he has to learn to be able to offer a good product.  That applies just as much to the business side as to the photography.  So I don't see how bringing up the necessity for some planning to be "not answering" the OP's request for how to find clients.



Well, if his question regarding a specific aspect of running a business is going to be completely ignored (which is the case by many here), then _everything _about running a business should be discussed.

The guy asked a specific question regarding one specific aspect; one of many, of running a business.

The only reason not to address the question asked is because the person responding doesn't know. 

Armed with the knowledge, though, there's simply no reason not to address the actual question asked when responding...


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## jamesbjenkins (Aug 28, 2012)

Steve5D said:
			
		

> No, you basically said that you would expect others to heed your advice because you've been successful.
> 
> But, yet, you hadn't (and still have not) offered a single word of advice to the OP...
> 
> ...



Steve, baby, if you take this one track mind with your business, I'm sure you're VERY successful. You're the best.

You do realize there's more than one thread on this forum, right?

I'd have offered my commentary to the OP if other members hadn't already offered exactly the same advice I would have. I'd rather not waste my time and the OP's by regurgitating identical talking points.

I'm not interested in a pissing contest with a childish member who's only interested in scoring points in his own mind and typing out pithy smarta$$ remarks. It's like trying to communicate with an angry 3yr old.


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## The_Traveler (Aug 28, 2012)

Steve5D said:


> If someone asks a question, why not attempt to answer it?



Because sometimes it is just irresponsible to do so ... like handing your car keys to a drunken teen-ager.

Withholding an answer and telling the OP why is being responsive to the community standards and not to the standards of someone who 'feels comfortable with his camera' and now wants to get some money out of it.
That's the way that professional licensing boards work, protecting the consumer, and that seems to be the way that many people on this Forum think.


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## cgipson1 (Aug 28, 2012)

Steve5D said:


> Tamgerine said:
> 
> 
> > I personally don't see advice as only answering the question someone has asked - but being able to offer a separate perspective and bring up things that maybe haven't been noticed or considered yet.
> ...



Sure.. if a 12 year old asks how to make explosives... lets just give them that information! I am sure they will use it responsibly!  

The OP has had his camera probably less than a month... 3 months at most. That may have worked in your business plan, Steve.. but I think this is ridiculous!


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## Steve5D (Aug 28, 2012)

jamesbjenkins said:


> Steve, baby, if you take this one track mind with your business, I'm sure you're VERY successful. You're the best.



I do quite well, thank you.

Then again, I've never suggested that anyone take a one-track mind approach to conducting business, so your comment is stupid.



> I'd have offered my commentary to the OP if other members hadn't already offered exactly the same advice I would have. I'd rather not waste my time and the OP's by regurgitating identical talking points.
> 
> I'm not interested in a pissing contest with a childish member who's only interested in scoring points in his own mind and typing out pithy smarta$$ remarks. It's like trying to communicate with an angry 3yr old.



What you refer to as "regurgitating" could also be viewed as "reinforcing". Given the moronic comments below, "reinforcement" could well help the OP. Surely you could formulate some coherent advice to offer the guy, with regards to the question he actually asked, that hadn't yet been offered.

That said, I'm sure you'll be happy to explain how _these _idiotic nuggets add to the discussion in _any _way:



> Take out a 30-60 second TV spot and do a nice commercial on a local TV station.





> I couldn't forget his first images post. There are only a few people I have been answering regularly and he is one of them lately.





> Weren't you just having a problem focusing this past week and were using all of the focus points in your camera. Not to mention that you were clueless with how to change the focus points or mode in your brand  new camera?
> You bought your camera at the end of July. You are NOT ready for a 'client.'





> AUTO and PROGRAM do NOT a photographer MAKE!  ;-)





> Such minor details don't matter once a big watermark and FB page has been employed





> I think a good place to start would be to properly spell the word "clinets".





> You need to use Facebook all Best Buy photographers use it




The fact of the matter is that I _have _offered advice to the OP, and I addressed the specific nature of his question. Go read post #12. How would you characterize that post?


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## 12sndsgood (Aug 28, 2012)

Hey Steve why not spend your 4 pages of responces on helping the OP instead of bashing on everyone else? saying that anyone that doesnt answer the way you approve on can't get clients and is whining. come on. your just doing the same thing you claim everyone else is doing. You claim everyone else is avoiding the questions. why not help him out. you did in your first post and then have just been nitpicking everyone else for the last 4 pages. You can't make people answer a forum post the way you want them to, so maybe just spend time helping the posters instead of ranting on everyone else.


Here's my take. if I am a mechanic and someone brings a car in and says " you know im hearing this ticking coming from the motor, could you look at it. and I look down and see that the guy has lost all but one lugnut and his wheel is about to fall off i''m not going to ignore that and just fix the tick and send him on his way. im going to bring up the tire, im going to bring up the ticking noise and chances are i'll have a look around to make sure nothing else is falling off.    when people ask a question and i'm not sure they grasp the magnitude of what there asking or wanting, i'm going to go into a lot further detail to bring up a  lot of things they may  not have thought about. I'd never tell someone not to go into photography, but I would surely tell them maybe they should take a bit more time and become a lot more comfortable and educated before they did, and to do it the proper and legal way so they don't wind up costing them more then they bargained for in the end.


as to the OP With my very limited knowledge, from what I have picked up on and learned myself. word of mouth seems to be the biggest generater of clients. For the few small clients I have pulled in so far its been me shooting someone else and her telling a friend. or me going out and talkign with people. I'd suggest finding out what your really good at, and what you like to photo the most and work on that aspect.


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## Steve5D (Aug 28, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> Steve5D said:
> 
> 
> > Tamgerine said:
> ...



Astounding. What a stupid, nonsensical comment.

How is addressing the question he actually asked remotely akin to saying something will work in any business plan?

Right.

It's not...


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## pixmedic (Aug 28, 2012)

now wait a second...
how is MY comment about a TV ad improper steve5d?
is television NOT a valid format for advertising and gaining clients??
was my suggestion of a TV ad NOT  a valid answer to the OP's question and NOT off topic?
or is it just not valid in YOUR opinion and therefor not valid at all?
considering your rants about answering the OP's question and not straying too far off topic, 
I find your suggestion of my post being "idiotic" a little hypocritical since many of your posts had nothing to do with the OP's
question either, just witless banter with other members.


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## Steve5D (Aug 28, 2012)

12sndsgood said:


> Hey Steve why not spend your 4 pages of responces on helping the OP instead of bashing on everyone else? saying that anyone that doesnt answer the way you approve on can't get clients and is whining. come on. your just doing the same thing you claim everyone else is doing. You claim everyone else is avoiding the questions. why not help him out. you did in your first post and then have just been nitpicking everyone else for the last 4 pages. You can't make people answer a forum post the way you want them to, so maybe just spend time helping the posters instead of ranting on everyone else.



And my first post was extensive with its advice; certainly moreso than most others here...


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## Steve5D (Aug 28, 2012)

pixmedic said:


> now wait a second...
> how is MY comment about a TV ad improper steve5d?
> is television NOT a valid format for advertising and gaining clients??
> was my suggestion of a TV ad NOT  a valid answer to the OP's question and NOT off topic?
> or is it just not valid in YOUR opinion and therefor not valid at all?



Hmmm... Okay.

Since you suggested it, can you provide examples of how radio and television advertising have worked for photographers, who are just starting out, to get clients?

That'd be just super, thanks...


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## Steve5D (Aug 28, 2012)

The_Traveler said:


> Steve5D said:
> 
> 
> > If someone asks a question, why not attempt to answer it?
> ...



Well, isn't that chivalrous of you; protecting the consumer. How gallant of you.

He asked a simple question. If someone is going to respond, it's not unreasonable to think the question might be addressed. If it's not, but other aspects are, what's the sense in addressing only some aspects? Why not discuss every aspect of running a photography business, from having insurance to printing business cards to getting clients? Hell, if nothing else, you'll thin out the competition because you'll scare the person away.

Honestly, had the guy said "How do I get insurance and a viable business plan and drive and commitment and all the gear I need?", people here would respond with "Can't do anything without clients"...


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## 12sndsgood (Aug 28, 2012)

Steve5D said:


> 12sndsgood said:
> 
> 
> > Hey Steve why not spend your 4 pages of responces on helping the OP instead of bashing on everyone else? saying that anyone that doesnt answer the way you approve on can't get clients and is whining. come on. your just doing the same thing you claim everyone else is doing. You claim everyone else is avoiding the questions. why not help him out. you did in your first post and then have just been nitpicking everyone else for the last 4 pages. You can't make people answer a forum post the way you want them to, so maybe just spend time helping the posters instead of ranting on everyone else.
> ...



so if your first post difinitively answered the question, who cares what everyone else say's.  the answer has been given so there is nothing left for the rest of us to do but to banter on about other topics since you allready took care of the question at hand.


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## pixmedic (Aug 28, 2012)

Steve5D said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> > now wait a second...
> ...



that really wasn't the point was it? where would you have me provide proof anyway? in my area? in the OP's area? in your area?
since it wasnt my question, the burden of proof really isnt on me since Im not asking for advertizing tips. the OP can choose to look into it or not. 
its just another format that someone could look into for marketing. Like radio, newspapers, magazines...
I made a suggestion, nothing more. you didn't ask anyone else to provide "proof" for their marketing suggestions, nor did you provide any proof for your own. Ive yet to quite understand what makes that particular suggestion idiotic when my answer, in fact, seems to be at the very least, an answer to the OP's question, and NOT a walk down "lets start a proper business" lane. people dont answer the op's "question" and you call them idiotic, and apparently  if they dont make suggestions that YOU deem proper, they are idiotic as well. 
my apologies to the OP for bothering to answer the question in such an obviously idiotic manor that obviously is NOT the correct answer.

I would also like to point out..that what is idiotic is someone pointing out another persons suggestion as stupid, but offering ZERO insight as to why it is not feasible.


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## The_Traveler (Aug 28, 2012)

Steve5D said:


> The_Traveler said:
> 
> 
> > Steve5D said:
> ...




You called my response 'chivalrous' - an obvious attempt to  denigrate it - and then went on to ask the same question, clearly to  indicate that your point was really important and that we didn't 'get  it'.
You project a lot on other peoples' motives and behavior so I thought this might be of interest.

Judging from your responses that attack everyone who doesn't agree with you, it seems that you are really upset that your opinion isn't acknowledged at the right one as it should be because you are A WORKING PROFESSIONAL.  You ought to look up the phrase 'Counter Dependent Behavior'; in general it describes a person who is impelled to go against any group activity in order to show their won strength and/or intelligence.


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## Steve5D (Aug 28, 2012)

12sndsgood said:


> Steve5D said:
> 
> 
> > 12sndsgood said:
> ...



Please point out where I said my post difinitively [_sic_] answered the question.

Go ahead...

We'll wait...


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## pixmedic (Aug 28, 2012)

61 posts I think is more than enough to have answered the OP's question and then some. Now its just silly. 
I think we should all just chillax and go take some pictures.  Im going to go try and hunt down some 110 film at the camera store.

for the record, as much as it pains me to say so, I still agree with Steve5D on the simple answering of the OP's question and the off-track issue. even if he was a bit of an @#$ about it.


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## cgipson1 (Aug 28, 2012)

The_Traveler said:


> Steve5D said:
> 
> 
> > The_Traveler said:
> ...



Counterdependent - Psychology Wiki

Being counterdependent is to take a position in relationships to ensure one is not dependent on others for emotional security status etc.  

This can be managed through passivity or *passive aggressive behavior* or through more *active rejection of authority figures *or social mores that support interpersonal relationships. 

Counterdependent people can reach the point where their *self-identity  arise from their acts of opposition and defiance and their behavior can  be very disruptive,* *making it difficult for them to hold down jobs or  maintain relationships of any kind. *

From a psychodynamic viewpoint such behavior patterns are thought to result from a *deep-seated fear of intimacy*,  which having lead to *emotional isolation*, is paired with an *increased  neediness for the feared state. *This explains why counterdependents are  sometimes locked into approach-avoidance conflicts in intimate relationships.  

Hmmm.... do we see any of that here???


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## LaFoto (Aug 28, 2012)

Has the OP ever come back to his thread? I couldn't find any answer of his, saying he was grateful for all your advice or asking further questions.
Given he only comes round once a week, I feel he's been offered enough reading material to begin with - and more than he probably asked for, too.
So I feel this thread has run its course.
The OP may feel free to ask yet another specific question in a new thread.


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