# What to charge - work for hire



## Jimsmith401 (Feb 7, 2015)

Hi, very interested in what I should quote a potential customer.
Background: I do photography as a hobby and have done a few paid engagements (team photos), etc. I contacted this local promotion company previously and offered to shoot a pro beach volleyball event for free. I wanted to test the waters. The event covered about 6 days and they were very happy with my work. Said they would love to work with me in future on a paid engagement. They are the main promoter for a national university event championship coming up. I contacted them and the owner listed the multiple events and we left it as I would provide a quote. The events cover 5 days and total around 21 hrs of "event time". (Does not include my travel, arriving early, photoshop post production, prep , rentals, etc.
I would really like to do the job, but I also want to be professional about it and not do it for next to nothing. I also need to consider this is a part time thing for me and I am not a pro who has been doing events like this for years. If you could offer a price range you believe a typical pro photographer would charge that would be great. I would probably stick with the low end of the range. Getting the job and the credit is the primary objective.
Also, does anyone know of a photo quote template.
Thanks


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## pixmedic (Feb 7, 2015)

its hard to say really...
what will this job cost  you to do?
i would start with what _*your*_ cost will be to do it, and start adding from there. 
how will they be licensing the photos and for how long? how many photos are you expected to provide? do you retain any rights to the photos? what rights will _*they*_ be getting?
don't forget to factor in the taxes you will have to pay on the income. 

If i were to quote 21 hours of "wedding event" time where they would want commercial usage of the images, I would start at around $12k and go from there depending on how much running around I had to do. I will assume I am actually on the cheap end of this, and people with more commercial shooting experience will chime in with a slightly more realistic number.


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## KmH (Feb 7, 2015)

Are you aware of what 'work for hire' means vis-a-vis copyright ownership of the photos you make?
I would not recommend signing any 'work for hire' agreement from the local promotion company.
Doing so wold not be in your best interests

In fact you really need to have the local promotion company sign a contract that you provide that clearly states that you will retain all rights to the photographs you make and that the local promotions company can license the use of your photos.

I agree $12K would be a reasonable rate, plus use licensing.


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## tirediron (Feb 8, 2015)

Based on your 21 hours of shooting, I would be at $5200, + travel, + set-up/tear-down, +meals...  I would probably come in at around $7-8K to do the job, images extra.


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## ronlane (Feb 8, 2015)

tirediron said:


> Based on your 21 hours of shooting, I would be at $5200, + travel, + set-up/tear-down, +meals...  I would probably come in at around $7-8K to do the job, images extra.



John, better quote $10K, so you can negotiate, or if accepted, turn a nice profit.


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## Jimsmith401 (Feb 10, 2015)

Thank you for all of the great information and points you have raised.  I perhaps used the  an incorrect phrase "work for hire" .   The client did not propose this, I assumed my work would be considered done under this type of engagement, as I would be doing work for them during 5 days.  I have since structured the proposal that I own the images and included licensing period and a page of terms and conditions I was able to get related to photography services.

One new question: Since I will be providing images throughout 5 day event for their web sites , before I will submit my invoice, how do you handle a line like this?

"RIGHTS LICENSED ONLY UPON FULL PAYMENT OF TOTAL BILLING AND SUBJECT TO TERMS AND CONDITIONS BELOW"

They "will" be using the images before payment.  e.g. they can use the images.... but allows a photographer to go after the client if they don't end up paying? 

Thanks again


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## vintagesnaps (Feb 10, 2015)

No, I don't think they should have usage of the photos before payment, are you at least getting a deposit? Are you going to really want the trouble and/or potential expense of a lawyer to be able to get paid for that much work if the client already has the photos and isn't timely in paying you?? Once you've provided the photos they're gone, I don't think there's any getting them back.

And credit may or may not happen, published photos in a newspaper or magazine usually would have a photo credit, but a client may post them online and may not give you credit or want to use them with your watermark. For brochures or ads or marketing purposes, whether in print or online, there typically isn't a photo credit or watermark used.

Get professional advice and information. Try PPA or American Society of Media Photographers . They have resources on helping to determine pricing, contracts, etc.

If you're in the US you could take a look at  Sports Photography and Photojournalism for Professional Photographers and Photography SportsShooter.com, the site's run by professional sports photographers (the info. may not apply outside the US). You might also need to look at NCAA guidelines, I'm not up on the latest but they did have restrictions on usage while players are still under eligibility (once players are out of eligibility you may have other options for future usage).


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## gsgary (Feb 10, 2015)

Do you really think you are going to get anywhere near what has been quoted ? you will be lucky to get 1/3 of that after shooting for free


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## vintagesnaps (Feb 10, 2015)

Yeah, that's the thing, people seem to like the pictures when they've been done free (or dirt cheap), whether or not they'll pay the going rate I don't know. That's why doing it for credit isn't a good idea either, it may not end up happening.


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## Mr. Innuendo (Feb 10, 2015)

You can't buy a pizza with a photo credit.


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## tirediron (Feb 10, 2015)

Mr. Innuendo said:


> You can't buy a pizza with a photo credit.


True, but you can buy it using your camera (the cash that is, that you got from selling your camera).


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