# TLRs? Good medium format option?



## benjibighorn (Apr 4, 2011)

I shot and developed 35mm film while I was in college, nearly 5 years ago. So its been some time since I shot film, but I want to get back into it. I'm looking into a medium format TLR 120 (60mm) camera. I wanted to stay away from the trendy Lomo, Diana, or any other other new plastic medium format options, but want some of the same effect, grain, and look of those options. I just want to know the real advantages and disadvantages of TLRs. I probably won't be developing my own film (lack of a darkroom) so who develops 60mm film? Are they difficult to shoot? Should I go with a newer more expensive model or an older and much cheaper model? Is there another option that I don't know about that might be a better idea with lack of experience on TLRs? Like I said I wanted to stay away from Lomo's and the like, but if they are the best option at a reasonable price then I might have to reconsider. 

Thanks for the help in advance!

Marc


----------



## dxqcanada (Apr 4, 2011)

When you state 60mm ... do you mean the focal length ?
If so, you should try to find a Wide Rolleiflex -> Rolleiflex Tele and Wide TLR Cameras - www.rolleiclub.com

or the film format ... 6x6cm (60x60mm) ?

... actually, if you are looking for a TLR ... look for a Rolleiflex.

I have always found something "magical" about shooting with a TLR.

There are other TLR's of good quality (that are no longer made) that are cheaper, but I think the closest to a modern TLR is made by Seagull -> Welcome to seagull


----------



## Pgeobc (Apr 4, 2011)

Please consider a TLR, either a Yashica, Mamiya, Rolleicord, or Rolleiflex. I am certain that they will not disappoint you. You can develop 120 film easily enough with a changing bag and small tank. Then you can scan the negatives. One can always use local commercial developing for color, but B&W usually has to be sent off somewhere.

The first two brands can be had for very modest prices and are known for excellent lenses. Rolleicords are simply less expensive Rolleiflexes. I have two Rolleiflexes and they are incredible. Even the 1950s E model is a splended machine. Rollei's are like fine watches: they are good at what they do and are easy to use. Try to get a Rolleiflex with either a Planar or Xenotar lens. However, the Tessars and Xenars are just fine and less expensive and are known to "hold their own" at smaller apertures.


----------



## compur (Apr 4, 2011)

benjibighorn said:


> I probably won't be developing my own film (lack of a darkroom)



You don't need a darkroom to develop film.  You can do it with a changing bag and some 
other items plus chemistry.



> so who develops 60mm film?


There is no such film.  You want 120 film for most TLRs.  Lots of places develop it. Google it. 




> Are they difficult to shoot?


No more difficult than any manual film camera. Though framing your shot with a waist level finder may take some getting used to (image is reversed left to right).  



> Should I go with a newer more expensive model or an older and much cheaper model?


Without telling us your budget it's hard to say.



> Is there another option that I don't know about that might be a better idea with lack of experience on TLRs? Like I said I wanted to stay away from Lomo's and the like, but if they are the best option at a reasonable price then I might have to reconsider.


If you want quality images on 120 film then TLRs are probably the most economical way to go.  Lots of Yashica TLRs can be had for less than $100 and they can produce excellent results.  Just be sure it is in good condition and fully working before you buy.


----------



## Alex_Holland (Apr 4, 2011)

Get a Yashica. Or a Rolleicord. Or like a Ricohflex. Just start eBay searchin'.


----------



## JeffGreene (Apr 5, 2011)

benjibighorn said:


> I shot and developed 35mm film while I was in college, nearly 5 years ago. So its been some time since I shot film, but I want to get back into it. I'm looking into a medium format TLR 120 (60mm) camera. I wanted to stay away from the trendy Lomo, Diana, or any other other new plastic medium format options, but want some of the same effect, grain, and look of those options. I just want to know the real advantages and disadvantages of TLRs. I probably won't be developing my own film (lack of a darkroom) so who develops 60mm film? Are they difficult to shoot? Should I go with a newer more expensive model or an older and much cheaper model? Is there another option that I don't know about that might be a better idea with lack of experience on TLRs? Like I said I wanted to stay away from Lomo's and the like, but if they are the best option at a reasonable price then I might have to reconsider.
> 
> Thanks for the help in advance!
> 
> Marc


Marc:
I've been shooting TLRs since the 70s.  I recommend a Mamiya TLR, either 220, 300, or 330F or S.  It is the only interchangeable lens TLR.  They are everywhere, quite cheap comparatively and always available on the auction site.  If you enjoy them you can always later explore other options.  As others have said the Yashica TLRs are good as well. Rolleiflexes have incredible lenses and the automat models generally start at about $300.  If you are interested in that brand I would suggest starting with a Rolleicord which was the rolleiflex consumer model. If you get a rolleicord avoid the triotar lens and go for either the tessar or Xenar.  As far as film development goes, if you don't want to do it yourself, Walmart develops 120 film at $.84 a roll.  They are probably the low cost option.  You might also want to check some of the local photography stores (if any still exist in your area).  Most of the Fuji film development machines have carriers for 120/220 film.  You just have to ask.


----------



## benjibighorn (Apr 5, 2011)

Thanks for all the help! I really appreciate everyone taking the time to respond. I'm going to do some looking around to see which model has the features I'm looking for and fits in my price range (Compur: $100- $300). I'm sure I'll have a few more post on the subject until I get my camera and figure out exactly what I'm doing... haha Thanks again!

m


----------



## djacobox372 (Apr 6, 2011)

just pick up a yashica mat 124g for around $125 and don't look back.


----------



## raphaelaaron (Apr 6, 2011)

my first TLR was the yashica mat 124g. it was one fine hot piece of (shut yo mouth!)...i'm just talkin bought yashica :x

now i've moved up and bought a rolleiflex. but the yashica i miss, and wish i hadn't sold. a few to consider are the mamiya c330s (however interchangeable lenses, you need to be wary of ones that don't fully focus the same with the looking lens)

the minolta autocord is supposedly very well built and can be had for oodles cheaper than your rolleiflex.

and the yashica as i mentioned, though make sure to get one in very good condition. you'll be reaping the benefits of it in the long run.

i would recommend you also steer away from seagulls, as they are cheap chinese pieces. sure they may take alright images, but you want dependability in something of a camera.


----------



## photocist (Apr 6, 2011)

I have a rolleicord which works very well.

Just go for the name brand TLR and any of them will be great. Even for 125, the upgrade in quality over 35mm (and most digital slr cameras) is AMAZING for the price.


----------



## Vautrin (Apr 7, 2011)

benjibighorn said:


> I probably won't be developing my own film (lack of a darkroom) so who develops 60mm film? Are they difficult to shoot? Should I go with a newer more expensive model or an older and much cheaper model? Is there another option that I don't know about that might be a better idea with lack of experience on TLRs? Like I said I wanted to stay away from Lomo's and the like, but if they are the best option at a reasonable price then I might have to reconsider.
> Marc


 
Due to the size of hte film, you can get better quality images from a cheap 120mm camera then you can with an expensive 35mm or 35mm digital equivalent.  You just can't beat real estate size when it comes to your cameras film / sensor

You should provide some more details on your budget.  You might be able to pick up a cheap camera for $50, or you might spend a couple grand on a hasselblad and accoutriments.

BTW, good tip: find a good photo lab that will do developing only.  Then get yourself a scanner that can do negatives, you'll get the best of both film and digital.  It's important since if you're not setting up your own dark room, film printing costs can be staggering


----------



## Proteus617 (Apr 7, 2011)

benjibighorn said:


> I wanted to stay away from the trendy Lomo, Diana, or any other other new plastic medium format options, but want some of the same effect, grain, and look of those options....Should I go with a newer more expensive model or an older and much cheaper model?



The US made quite a few TLRs that are great users but don't have much market value today ($20-$40).  The cheapest are quite robust and usually have a triplet lens that is a bit low-fi but can have great character.  A list of common ones: Ciroflex, Ansco Reflex, Graflex 22, Royce, etc.


----------



## Alex_Holland (Apr 7, 2011)

I'm a broke student so I send my 120 out through Wal*Mart. They send it off to Fuji in NC. Idk if I'm just paying for shipping or something, but it costs me around $9.30 per roll of 120 B&W. I don't shoot color, so maybe BW is more expensive? I don't know. But the weird thing is, that the price varies per roll. I might go pick up two rolls and one will be like $9.08 and one will be like $9.40. Weird. Although the photo guy is nice and only charges me like 20 cents a photo plus developing.


----------



## Alex_Holland (Apr 7, 2011)

Oh and you get 3" prints. They sometimes have streaks on them like they're digitally done...but hey whatever.


----------



## djacobox372 (Apr 7, 2011)

raphaelaaron said:


> my first TLR was the yashica mat 124g. it was one fine hot piece of (shut yo mouth!)...i'm just talkin bought yashica :x
> 
> now i've moved up and bought a rolleiflex. but the yashica i miss, and wish i hadn't sold. a few to consider are the mamiya c330s (however interchangeable lenses, you need to be wary of ones that don't fully focus the same with the looking lens)
> 
> ...



I'm not sure what you mean bout the "same looking lens" with a Mamiya C33--when changing lenses you're changing the looking lens as well (it's attached to the same lens board). 

The Mamiya C33 is an awesome camera, makes a rollei look like a toy IMO.  However like most pro-built cameras, it's very heavy to carry around--that's why I liked the yashica, very light weight. 

I would consider the C33 a great choice for a studio TLR, but if you're doing street photography then a yashica or rolleiflex is a better choice.

BTW: don't worry about the light meter in a yashica, it's takes expensive batteries and is hardly ever accurate after all these years; you'll save $$ by buying one with a broken meter or no meter at all.


----------



## raphaelaaron (Apr 7, 2011)

djacobox372 said:


> I'm not sure what you mean bout the "same looking lens" with a Mamiya C33--when changing lenses you're changing the looking lens as well (it's attached to the same lens board).
> 
> The Mamiya C33 is an awesome camera, makes a rollei look like a toy IMO.  However like most pro-built cameras, it's very heavy to carry around--that's why I liked the yashica, very light weight.
> 
> ...



if you read around many of the problems with the c330 have been a mis alignment of the lenses, regardless if you change the looking and taking lenses together. there's too many moveable parts, though i would agree the ability change lenses is nice. the more movement however, the more room for fault, and people have been saying that they'd have to get extra work done on their c330s due to off focus calibration between the taking and looking lenses. not sure if you've ran into that, but that's one of the major reasons i opted for more money and invested in purchasing the rollei. that and the size, as you mentioned. i already have too many heavy medium format cameras


----------



## Alex_Holland (Apr 7, 2011)

I have a C220, and when I first got it, I accidentally put my finger through the bellows on the right side because I'm not used to having bellows on a camera. That took a lot of slow and dreary tooth-pick and super glue work to fix. Get the Yashica, it's pain free.


----------



## Wally626 (May 22, 2011)

I have the Mamiya C220 with the 55mm, 80mm and 180mm lenses, I just bought a 135mm as well. Great camera. Only issue I have had so far is the shutter on the 55mm lens is starting to stick a bit. For a camera I have used for 30 years not too bad. The twin lenses come mounted together so I do not see how they can become misaligned. The 105mm lens has an aperture on the view lens and is really hard to find. C330f bodies run a little under $300 and the lens run about $150 to $200. You can also get reflective viewfinders that move the image back to the correct orientation and include a light meter. Chances of finding one with a working meter is pretty small. So add a light meter to your kit. The bellows with the wide angles lens allows for pretty good macro shots.


----------



## Alex_Holland (May 22, 2011)

I shoot street with my Mamiya C220.


----------



## djacobox372 (May 24, 2011)

Alex_Holland said:


> I'm a broke student so I send my 120 out through Wal*Mart. They send it off to Fuji in NC. Idk if I'm just paying for shipping or something, but it costs me around $9.30 per roll of 120 B&W. I don't shoot color, so maybe BW is more expensive? I don't know. But the weird thing is, that the price varies per roll. I might go pick up two rolls and one will be like $9.08 and one will be like $9.40. Weird. Although the photo guy is nice and only charges me like 20 cents a photo plus developing.


 
If you're a broke student you really should be developing your film yourself, it only cost around 20 cents per roll for b/w


----------



## Alex_Holland (May 25, 2011)

I know! I was just temporarily out of D76. Back to _MY_ dark room now! But color is still only like $1.50 a roll.


----------

