# Lighting Advice



## hk001441 (Jan 6, 2013)

Hello all! I am new to the professional photography business, it has been a hobby up until now.  I have a studio space that I am working on setting up at the moment.  I am looking for advice on a lighting kit that includes the simple black and white backdrop setup.  I have a Nikon D3000 and a pretty large space that is currently lit with fluorescent lights on the ceilings.  I will be doing family, children, and infant portraits.  Any suggestions on a decently priced kit?? Thanks!


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## Josh66 (Jan 6, 2013)

Please define 'decently priced'.

Lights can get expensive...


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## hk001441 (Jan 6, 2013)

I am looking to spend 200-400 dollars


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## tirediron (Jan 6, 2013)

:lmao:


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## tirediron (Jan 6, 2013)

Okay, now that I've got that out of my system.  $400 is barely going to buy you two of Adorama's Flashpoint lights which are the beginning of the consumer market.  For professional use you need to be looking at something like the Elinchrom BxRi  or BRX line, including stand and modifier, be prepared to spend at LEAST $750 PER HEAD!


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## Derrel (Jan 6, 2013)

tirediron said:


> :lmao:



*"Helpful reply"???? ^^^^^^^^^ Or not???
*

Ahemm....

How about buying two of these kits...right price, right direction? This post took 10 seconds of effort on my part.

Flashpoint II FP320SB2 Monolight Kit, 150 Watt Second FP320SB2


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## hk001441 (Jan 6, 2013)

wow thanks tirediron I have come to this website for help and every time I post I encounter rude people like you. I don't think I will be using this site anymore.


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## hk001441 (Jan 6, 2013)

Derrel- Since I have never used a lighting system before would it be easier for me to start with continuous lighting?  Also- what do you make of all these kits on the internet that are like 250 for a few lights and backdrops..like the ones on cowboystudio.com?


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## MK3Brent (Jan 6, 2013)

Continuous lighting would be vastly easier and is recommended for those individuals over flash/strobes.


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## tirediron (Jan 6, 2013)

Derrel said:


> tirediron said:
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> > :lmao:
> ...


Yeah, okay, not totally appropriate; apologies to the OP, but let's face it.  A brand-new professional going into business without even having done the research on what equipment costs?????  Sorry but while Flashpoints are great for the basement studio, they are NOT suitable for professional work.


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## tirediron (Jan 6, 2013)

MK3Brent said:


> Continuous lighting would be vastly easier and is recommended for those individuals over flash/strobes.


:scratch:  Huh????


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## Derrel (Jan 6, 2013)

hk001441 said:


> Derrel- Since I have never used a lighting system before would it be easier for me to start with continuous lighting?  Also- what do you make of all these kits on the internet that are like 250 for a few lights and backdrops..like the ones on cowboystudio.com?



I think the Flashpoint 320 M is the "best value" in lighting. Period. I personally think that studio monolights are easier for beginners than are continuous lights. THese have continuous modeling lamps, which are incandescent bulbs that "preview" the light that will emanate from the flash tube when the lights are "triggered" with the included PC sync cord, or by using an on-camera flash and the built-in "slave trigger" that is in each Flashpoint monolight.

Flashpoints are lower-end monolights, made in China by Mettle, and have been imported by Adorama for around 15 years now...they offer user-interchangeable flash tubes AND user-interchangeable modeling lights. They can be kept around! The low-cost stuff from COwboy Studios is basically "disposable", with NON-replaceable flash tubes.

Continuous lighting at the Cowboy Studio level is almost USELESS for moving children...it is NOT a good way to go. No. You really,really,really want to buy FLASH units. Trust me. Continuous light has a number of issues for "people" work....it's great for products and still-lifes, but for people...not at this price level, no.


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## MK3Brent (Jan 6, 2013)

tirediron said:


> MK3Brent said:
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> > Continuous lighting would be vastly easier and is recommended for those individuals over flash/strobes.
> ...


Got a problem?


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## Josh66 (Jan 6, 2013)

MK3Brent said:


> Continuous lighting would be vastly easier and is recommended for those individuals over flash/strobes.



I guess I disagree with this...

While continuous lights _are_ easier, there's a reason they call them hot lights.

Flash is not really *that* hard (ideally, you'll want a flash meter).  Eventually, you'll migrate to flash, so you may as well get it over with and start there.  It'll save you some money, and when you get the hang of it you'll be that much ahead.

It'll cost more right now, but in the long run you'll save money.

Your options are going to be very limited for the given budget though...  I suggest you find more money...


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## tirediron (Jan 6, 2013)

MK3Brent said:


> tirediron said:
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> > MK3Brent said:
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Continuous lighting is easier for people?  Does.  Not.  Compute.


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## MK3Brent (Jan 6, 2013)

Yes. 

Continuous lightning is instantaneous to your changes... flash requires you expose, review, re-position lights, expose again.

Need to put in some gobos? Need some diffusers? .... The combinations of those things can be numerous, and with continuous lighting you can make those changes and see the changes way before making an exposure.

Viola, easier.


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## hk001441 (Jan 6, 2013)

Thank you for the advice Derrel. This seems about the right price range.  I just wasn't sure if you get what you pay for with those kits I was checking out.  Also, thank you for taking my price range and working with it unlike others.  Obviously my studio is a work in progress but in the meantime I don't have ridiculous amounts of money to pour into this.  I am doing this because I feel I should try it and the only photographer in town doesn't even have lighting or any equipment in her studio so I thought maybe I could do better than that if I tried studio photography.  Wish me luck!


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## tirediron (Jan 6, 2013)

hk001441 said:


> Thank you for the advice Derrel. This seems about the right price range.  I just wasn't sure if you get what you pay for with those kits I was checking out.  Also, thank you for taking my price range and working with it unlike others.  Obviously my studio is a work in progress but in the meantime I don't have ridiculous amounts of money to pour into this.  I am doing this because I feel I should try it and the only photographer in town doesn't even have lighting or any equipment in her studio so I thought maybe I could do better than that if I tried studio photography.  Wish me luck!


I wish you all the luck in the world, seriously, but gear costs what gear costs.  $750/head is NOT a lot of money for lighting, and there is a reason that it costs what it does.  Keep working the way you are and save your money.  Buying good gear once is a LOT cheaper than buying cheap gear many times.


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## tirediron (Jan 6, 2013)

MK3Brent said:


> Yes.
> 
> Continuous lightning is instantaneous to your changes... flash requires you expose, review, re-position lights, expose again.
> 
> ...


Two words:  Modeling light.


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## Derrel (Jan 6, 2013)

hk001441 said:


> Hello all! *I am new* to the professional photography business,>>SNIP>>> doing *family, children, and infant portraits*.  Any suggestions on a decently priced kit?? Thanks!



FLASH. Period.

If she were going to be shooting products, continuous lighting would be great!!!! For studio portraiture for a beginner, there is very little wrong with studio monolights...and these days, NOT much flash power is needed, what with the superb image quality that can be had at ISO 200,250,and 320 with a Nikon D3000. For families, children, and infants, studio flash in monolight form is clearly, my suggested choice. It "just works". Shooting either hand-held, or off of a tripod or camera stand.


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## Buckster (Jan 6, 2013)

tirediron said:


> Derrel said:
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> > tirediron said:
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Because...????

And please be specific.


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## tirediron (Jan 7, 2013)

Buckster said:


> tirediron said:
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> > Derrel said:
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Colour temperature continuity
Build quality
Lack of fully adjustable modelling light

These aren't bad lights at all, in fact, for the money, they're outstanding, BUT they're not meant for the rigors of professional service.


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## Buckster (Jan 7, 2013)

tirediron said:


> Buckster said:
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> > tirediron said:
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None of those "problems" have been shown to be an issue at all with the Flashpoints Derrel recommended.  Or do you have some actual hard data that shows otherwise?

Quoting some famous photographer, "Light is light".


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## Derrel (Jan 7, 2013)

Flashpoint II FP320M 150 Watt AC/DC Monolight Strobe FP320M


TWO YEAR warranty on the Flashpoint 320M units from Adorama. $99.95 and free shipping for the light unit alone, without stand or softbox or umbrella. At that price, a person could purchase FIFTEEN 320M units for the price of two, $750 flash heads. And would then have 13 spares, just to make sure that two 320M's could make it through an afternoon's baby shoot.


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## tirediron (Jan 7, 2013)

I don't see any point in debating this any further; we have differing opinions on that matter.  My belief is:  If a person is going to bill themselves as a professional, then their skills and equipment should support that claim.


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## Buckster (Jan 7, 2013)

tirediron said:


> I don't see any point in debating this any further; we have differing opinions on that matter.  My belief is:  If a person is going to bill themselves as a professional, then their skills and equipment should support that claim.


I think all that matters is that they can deliver the product to the client's satisfaction.  Beyond that, it just comes off as gear snobbery, IMHO.


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## nycphotography (Jan 7, 2013)

MK3Brent said:


> Continuous lighting would be vastly easier and is recommended for those individuals over flash/strobes.



Whut?  

First, unless you live in Alaska, the A/C bill for the first year will exceed the cost of flash equipment.  

Second, continuous lights generally ends up being a hodge podge mix of flourescent, incandesent and LED and can lead to white balance issues from hell.

Finally, good hot lights cost even more than good flash equipment, is notoriously hard to regulate, and takes a LOT of electricity to operate.  As in special circuits.


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## nycphotography (Jan 7, 2013)

hk001441 said:


> Hello all! I am new to the professional photography business, it has been a hobby up until now.  I have a studio space that I am working on setting up at the moment.  I am looking for advice on a lighting kit that includes the simple black and white backdrop setup.  I have a Nikon D3000 and a pretty large space that is currently lit with fluorescent lights on the ceilings.  I will be doing family, children, and infant portraits.  Any suggestions on a decently priced kit?? Thanks!



I think your stated budget of 200-400 is not realistic.

I think the minimum setup for professionalwork would be get 2 monolight heads (and you really should have 4), 4 light stands, 2 softboxes, 2 shoot through umbrellas, a set of grids, a set of snoots, a set of bounce cards (white foam core), a set of gobos (black foam core), a 10' background paper stand, and 3 rolls of paper (white, black, and some midtone gray).

Buying cheap to start out is ok, so long as you get workable stuff.  The Adorama or Alien Bees stuff is workable. *But this basic studio setup is probably $2000ish, and this is about the absolute minimum you need to really do professional work.*

I don't think I could do much professional work with less equipement.  Where professional means knowing "I delivered the best product I could produce as an artist", not "the best I could so with makeshift equipement."   Maybe cut it back by $600 by starting w/ only two lights, but it doesn't take long before have a shot that needs 3-4 lights, so you should plan for them from the start.

Unless someone can suggest a different package that gets the job done.


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## MK3Brent (Jan 7, 2013)

nycphotography said:


> MK3Brent said:
> 
> 
> > Continuous lighting would be vastly easier and is recommended for those individuals over flash/strobes.
> ...



1. $0.07 / kWh (8760 hours) = $36.80 / 60watt bulb running 24 hours a day every day of the year. (Let's say 1 SB700 = $249) That would be *SIX *x 60 watt lightbulbs running constantly day and night all year.)
I dunno about you, but I sleep and play a total of 16 hours a day. So let's take 1/3 of that $12.26/year. Shooting non stop for 8 hours a day. 
No, you will not have an "A/C" bill exceeding the flash equipment in the first year. 

2. Who says you have to mix your lights?


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## nycphotography (Jan 7, 2013)

You do your "professional studio photography" with 60w bulbs?  Really?

Sure you can use a home depot reflector to take a cool picture of an  apple against a black background.  But a professional has to be prepared  to shoot whatever the CLIENT NEEDS.  And sometimes, or actually,  usually, that requires a lot of light, and several light heads and  modifiers.

So, how specifically do you adjust your hot lights so the fill is directional, and 1 stop down, from your main which is soft, keying your main to f8, without effing the effin heck out of the white balance as your incandescents shift to yellow on the home depot dimmer but not on the full power main?

*Take one professional shoot you have done, explain what the problem was, and explain how you solved it, using your hot lights.  I can almost guarantee that can't because you don't do actually this.*  The scrim frames and stands and sand bags and booms clamps and fabrics and light modifiers alone would cost more than and entire studio worth of flash gear.


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## Buckster (Jan 7, 2013)

nycphotography said:


> a professional has to be prepared  to shoot whatever the CLIENT NEEDS.


Only if that's what they've billed their services and capabilities as being able to deliver.  In most cases, professional photographers focus on a single niche genre, and that may require only natural light, or one light, or two lights, or a dozen lights.  It may be they only shoot pets, or babies, or seniors, or weddings, or landscapes, or stock.  You don't get to define ANY of that for other professional photographers.  You do what you do and they do what they do.  You have no right to declare or imply that they're inferior to you just because they don't shoot what you shoot or use the gear that you use.



nycphotography said:


> And sometimes, or actually,  usually, that requires a lot of light, and several light heads and  modifiers.


Again, not unless they've billed themselves as "do it ALL" photographers.  Most photographers don't.  Most photographers concentrate on a single niche and client base, and MOST of those niches and the photographers that are shooting them do not require several light heads and every possible modifier ever made.

Welcome to reality.  Feel free to disembark from your high horse and get comfy if you plan to stick around.


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## nycphotography (Jan 7, 2013)

Buckster, I agree with you.  To a point.  Hey, he really doesn't 'need' studio lights at all.  I recently showed someone on here how to build a "soft light small product photography studio" for free on any non south facing window ledge.  Well, I guess the sheet of white bounce paper costs $.02, but still.

If the OP wants to limit the scope to a niche, I'd think the OP would be a good place to do so.  Further he's had every opportunity to say "hey, slow down here, I just need to shoot little league football card pictures" or some such.  But he hasn't narrowed his niche, so the only _reasonable _assumption is that he intends to do "general studio work".

If he only needs to shoot some niche, then of course the equipment needs might be much lower (and also easier to spell out).

OP? Is there some niche you're aiming at, or do you intend to respond to client needs in general?

However, as to hot lights in this scenario... there are differences of opinion, and then there's just plain bad advice.  Horribly bad advice.  If the budget is already limited (and in the absence of some stated niche), the OP can little afford to go off on a hot light adventure here.  That is just plain irresponsibly bad advice.


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## Mully (Jan 7, 2013)

^^^^^^^ I have never used window light for a product illustration.... that is amateur land. What client is going to pay $2-3000 a day for a product shot by window light ...what if the day you are booked it is raining.....this is pure hog wash.


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## MK3Brent (Jan 7, 2013)

nycphotography said:


> You do your "professional studio photography" with 60w bulbs?  Really?
> 
> Sure you can use a home depot reflector to take a cool picture of an  apple against a black background.  But a professional has to be prepared  to shoot whatever the CLIENT NEEDS.  And sometimes, or actually,  usually, that requires a lot of light, and several light heads and  modifiers.
> 
> ...




Me?
No, I use speedlights. 

Since you've obviously missed the point... Horribly.


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## nycphotography (Jan 7, 2013)

lol Now I find myself taking Buckster's side in this... 

The photographer in question does product shots for small craft products sold on Etsy. Call it a hunch, but the budget is not measured in $thousands per year, let alone per day. And if its raining today, then he can wait and shoot tomorrow. He's doing a favor or a small job for friends, and is at least taking it seriously enough to learn how to do the best job he can.  I respect that.  So I helped him out.

And while it may be pure amateur land, I bet he gets much better shots than most everyone using a flash for the same job (except for the rare flash users have invested a good bit of time and energy in learning to control the flash).


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## nycphotography (Jan 7, 2013)

I didn't join here to get sucked into pedantic pissing matches.  I'm not responding to this thread anymore since I can see it going someplace unproductive, and I'd prefer to stay on better terms with everyone here.

OP:  You can START here for $250.  Flashpoint FPBK1 Budget Studio Monolight Flash Kit 160 FPBK1

You will need more, much more, but this will get you started in your budget.  (I'm not even sure these are adjustable power lights... if not I'd take a pass on them).

If you want to talk further, feel free to send a PM, and I'll give whatever guidance I can.


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## Mully (Jan 7, 2013)

Well I will pull up my big boy panties and go home ... glad that BS is settled


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