# ....JUST SO MUCH INTELLECTUAL MASTURBATION?



## JerryVenz (Apr 26, 2014)

Why is it that photography forums--amateur and professional--seem to attract those that like to TALK about photography far more than actually DOING it?

It's very similar to the warning sign I often see when I meet someone who claims to be a professional photographer and ALL they talk about is their EQUIPMENT--they show me NO IMAGES!  And, many times, they have NO WEBSITE to show me!

These thoughts just popped-up after reading some of the posts to the "What can one read from a photograph" thread where some of the responces reminded me of the intellectual masturbation spouted by Susan Sontag....

Anyway, just thought I'd stir the hornets nest before leaving to check-out one of my photo-locations.


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## oldhippy (Apr 26, 2014)

Intellectual stimuli make me Horney, but not without pictures.  Lol. Ed


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## MSnowy (Apr 26, 2014)

Everyone here in Mass loves to talk and debate about everything thing. So I guess you could call me a Massdabator


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## bribrius (Apr 26, 2014)

much easier talking about it than getting up and going to do it. Also talking about it you can multitask other responsibilities. Also not running around taking photos means you wont take fifty thousand crap images just for the sake of hitting the shutter release. sometimes you are better off being more selective than running around snapping photos. course, on the other hand you run around snapping the shutter enough you will end up with a few accidental keepers and phenomenal photos if you do it enough, like the monkeys playing the piano thing...

more you hit the shutter better the odds you might actually accidently create a masterpiece.


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## bribrius (Apr 26, 2014)

damn it. now you have me feeling guilty. sitting here, typing. i should at least clean a lens or something.....
suppose i could find something to take a photo of if i go look. it just sounds like so much work...


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## AlanKlein (Apr 26, 2014)

I do post my pictures on Flickr but I have to agree with you that I should spend more time shooting than blabbing.  I also agree that people who post and have opinions about how to shoot better, should post their own so we can check to see if they're just big mouths.  Even if they have something of value to say, you want to see their pictures to judge if you wish to follow their methods.  Their taste may differ from yours.  You don't want to start changing your processes for example and waste time only to get results you're not interested in.  So seeing results first is important like those little spoons of ice cream to taste different flavors before you decide on the scoop to buy.


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## PixelRabbit (Apr 26, 2014)

I actually think about this sometimes, I read most all of the threads here but rarely respond or share my own thoughts for various reasons, the biggest is I'm still working on my own opinion and learning so much that I prefer to keep my mouth shut lest I look stupid  lol I'd MUCH prefer to hide behind an image I post and discuss things through it.  

Bri, there is a place between not shooting and shooting obsessively that is a very powerful spot to learn.  I was guilty of obsessive shooting at the start when I was learning, I can't tell you how many bird and squirrel shots I have from learning how to show them off and learn enough about them to try to predict a behaviour before it happens.  I have a ton of panned shots from the car that are the "in betweens" they aren't great but not bad enough for me to toss, when I first started shooting them I was a fiend, I shot just about everything from every angle near and far, in some opinions perhaps I've clicked the button way too many times but I stand by how I taught myself, through repetition in different light, speed, panning motion etc... and I have only scratched the surface imho.  Now I take significantly fewer shots with more intention because I know what to expect and what position to shoot my subject from (ahead, beside, behind as the car passes).  Had I not shot and shot and shot I wouldn't have learned as much as I have to have the control over the conditions that I have now.  Always remember, there is more than one way to skin a cat and sometimes that's clicking that shutter button over and over and over again.


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## pgriz (Apr 26, 2014)

So Jerry, what's your problem with masturbation, intellectual or otherwise?

Slightly more seriously, though, the discussion in that thread was partly about intent of the photographer, and the perception of the image by a viewer.  Some images "work".  Others don't.  It's worth discussing what is behind that difference.


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## limr (Apr 26, 2014)

JerryVenz said:


> Why is it that photography forums--amateur and professional--seem to attract those that like to TALK about photography far more than actually DOING it?
> 
> It's very similar to the warning sign I often see when I meet someone who claims to be a professional photographer and ALL they talk about is their EQUIPMENT--they show me NO IMAGES!  And, many times, they have NO WEBSITE to show me!
> 
> ...



Does anyone else appreciate the irony of this post/thread? 

I find there's a healthy balance for the most part between people who post photos and also participate in these discussions. What's wrong with wanting to put an activity into context, or understanding it better, or fleshing out some uncertainties or doubts people have about the hows and whys of the activity? Sure, there are some who participate in discussions more than they post pictures, but not posting pictures on TPF does *NOT *mean they aren't taking any. What about the folks who post a ton of pictures but don't get involved in discussions here? Does that mean they don't ever think about these issues? Or talk about them elsewhere? Or still read but not post in the discussions?

There is value in discussion *AND *in practice.


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## photoguy99 (Apr 26, 2014)

You can't take pictures with a forum. But you can talk about them.

Sontag was a pretty smart cookie.

Some people need to think things through, some people are more comfortable working more instinctively. Get over it and embrace the differences. And stop being an anti-intellectual.... doofus.


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## vintagesnaps (Apr 26, 2014)

Uh-oh I just got that book! LOL This should be interesting. 

I don't think it's just photography, I think people are reading about and seeing things that in the past they would have had to spend time in the library learning about - now there are umpteen websites and videos that look more impressive than they are (just because someone does a spiffy video tutorial doesn't mean they understand what they're talking about). Seems to give people less than accurate info. and mistaken impressions about photography I think.

And if we didn't have the digital technology a lot of people out there with cameras who are trying to be photographers or mistakenly seem to think they are photographers as soon as they buy a DSLR probably wouldn't even have it as a hobby, much less be trying to underprice themselves and make some money as many seem to be doing (thanks in part to social media!). If they had to use film they'd probably just be taking pictures on holidays and vacations for personal enjoyment and leave it at that. For those of us who learned to use a camera before digital technology we _had_ to learn and understand using a camera, now people sometimes can get by without so much of that if they can edit enough. 

So maybe there are people into it that really aren't that into it, that given a few years and getting tired of hours of photoshopping and not making that much money at it etc. will eventually move on to something else. I'm thinking of the people who post beginner level questions and are talking about clients, which doesn't seem realistic. I've wondered sometimes where some people will be with their photography in say 5 years' time; I imagine the ones who really love it will still be with it and others may have realized it isn't so much their thing and find another hobby or sideline.

And I guess in general it's easy enough to find info. online and pick up the terminology etc. and if someone has a personality that's conducive to it, to talk about it more than to actually get off the computer and go do it!


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## bribrius (Apr 26, 2014)

PixelRabbit said:


> I actually think about this sometimes, I read most all of the threads here but rarely respond or share my own thoughts for various reasons, the biggest is I'm still working on my own opinion and learning so much that I prefer to keep my mouth shut lest I look stupid  lol I'd MUCH prefer to hide behind an image I post and discuss things through it.
> 
> Bri, there is a place between not shooting and shooting obsessively that is a very powerful spot to learn. I was guilty of obsessive shooting at the start when I was learning, I can't tell you how many bird and squirrel shots I have from learning how to show them off and learn enough about them to try to predict a behaviour before it happens. I have a ton of panned shots from the car that are the "in betweens" they aren't great but not bad enough for me to toss, when I first started shooting them I was a fiend, I shot just about everything from every angle near and far, in some opinions perhaps I've clicked the button way too many times but I stand by how I taught myself, through repetition in different light, speed, panning motion etc... and I have only scratched the surface imho. Now I take significantly fewer shots with more intention because I know what to expect and what position to shoot my subject from (ahead, beside, behind as the car passes). Had I not shot and shot and shot I wouldn't have learned as much as I have to have the control over the conditions that I have now. Always remember, there is more than one way to skin a cat and sometimes that's clicking that shutter button over and over and over again.



i really go in phases. if i am trying to understand something or a technique, like the still life images in the other thread i never really tried much ill take fifteen or twenty photos of the objects. Or like panning, i probably took thirty photos that day in my panning thread just practicing panning. bw images i took a couple hundred doing that learning.  But then i wont take another photo for days in between or even a week or more. walking around ill take ten photos on a walk once every few weeks or so the river and shutter speed photos for example, again learning. im very goal driven. so no goal or thing to learn at the moment, usually no photos. I probably have fifty images in learning portraits, but without the right lighting that isn't going far. i allocate shutter presses and time in some odd way.  Often im looking for that certain ONE that i really want, which i don't find.

random shutters, just because, are usually when im taking photos of the kids.
so yeah, unless im into working on some particular thing, ill go days without taking a photo or more. Everyones different.


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## timor (Apr 26, 2014)

JerryVenz said:


> Why is it that photography forums--amateur and professional--seem to attract those that like to TALK about photography far more than actually DOING it?
> 
> It's very similar to the warning sign I often see when I meet someone who claims to be a professional photographer and ALL they talk about is their EQUIPMENT--they show me NO IMAGES!  And, many times, they have NO WEBSITE to show me!
> 
> ...



Professional, basically it means squat, anyone can call that himself. It sounds good and make people feel better about themselves.


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## JerryLove (Apr 26, 2014)

JerryVenz said:


> Why is it that photography forums--amateur and professional--seem to attract those that like to TALK about photography far more than actually DOING it?
> 
> It's very similar to the warning sign I often see when I meet someone who claims to be a professional photographer and ALL they talk about is their EQUIPMENT--they show me NO IMAGES!  And, many times, they have NO WEBSITE to show me!
> 
> ...


 I came to a discussion board and people were discussing things. This disturbs me and so I'd like to discuss how discussions are bad. 

Further: since all I see people doing on the discussion board is discussing, I can safely conclude that there are no other aspects of their life and thus that they are clearly *not* taking photos. By virtue of discussing, they must be doing naught but, and that's so bad I want to discuss it.

Personally: I've taken more than 6k photos in the last few of months. I've posted exactly 1 here and have no website (and am not a professional photographer). I suppose if you don't like conversations about photography, you could not participate in them.


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## gsgary (Apr 26, 2014)

Not me i just like to masterbate


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## timor (Apr 26, 2014)

gsgary said:


> Not me i just like to masterbate


 Is this short for "master debate" ?


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## tevo (Apr 26, 2014)

For many- myself included, the discussion acts as an outlet for the intangible photographic urges that we as photographers (read: financial masochists) have on a day to day basis; you can't always go out and shoot, and there isn't always something to shoot- but there is always something to talk about. Lately I've found myself shooting more than discussing, which sits opposite to the situation OP describes. I'm realizing now that this is not any better of a place to be than talking and not shooting, because I am not actively seeking to post my work for critique and discuss how I might get better. It's all about finding the balance... moderation... tao... bracketing


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## Derrel (Apr 26, 2014)

Talking about gear is soooooo much cheaper than actually BUYING it!!!


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## bribrius (Apr 26, 2014)

really, if you cant get out and shoot at the moment. OR you cant think of anything to take a photo of right then. But you like photography. what else can you do but discuss it?


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## tevo (Apr 26, 2014)

Derrel said:


> Talking about gear is soooooo much cheaper than actually BUYING it!!!



I find myself with dog logic a good percentage of the time:

Just like a dog looking at the plate of food on the dinner table, I subconsciously believe that if I focus hard enough on photos of a 400 2.8, eventually it will be mine.


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## Derrel (Apr 26, 2014)

tevo said:


> Derrel said:
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> 
> > Talking about gear is soooooo much cheaper than actually BUYING it!!!
> ...



Juuuuuuuuust keep telling yourself that!!! lol!


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## JerryVenz (Apr 26, 2014)

Our marketing consultants have been saying this for 15 years---professional photographers just don't do it enough....take pictures that is....


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## minicoop1985 (Apr 26, 2014)

Derrel said:


> Talking about gear is soooooo much cheaper than actually BUYING it!!!



This is, actually, very true, but so is dreaming about it, obsessing about it, forgetting your family for it, leaving your spouse for it, living in your car because you have nowhere else to go for it, and... OK I may have gone a little overboard here. Carry on.


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## ronlane (Apr 26, 2014)

Well I KNOW you can't be talking about me. 1) I'm not a professional (photographer). 2) I have a website but is sucks, so I don't advertise it. 3) I post pictures no matter of how good or bad they are.

Thought I would add my two cents and bring the :cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:


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## limr (Apr 26, 2014)

Now I want beer and popcorn for real. Good thing I have both in the kitchen.


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## unpopular (Apr 26, 2014)

*DERP KING!

*


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## bribrius (Apr 26, 2014)

just now. perfect example of why. i go out with the camera. turn it on. no memory card. goes in demo mode. Take ten wonderful shots. One i had been thinking of for a while. thinking im not sure if i can get them back off as they are in camera but cant afford not to try.. turn the camera off. And they are poof gone. I guess nothing is saved in camera, lesson learned.
i cant believe i forgot to bring a memory card.

UGGGGGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And yes, this is my first time ever, forgetting a memory card.


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## manaheim (Apr 26, 2014)

MSnowy said:


> Everyone here in Mass loves to talk and debate about everything thing. So I guess you could call me a Massdabator



Snowy... I never realized you're in MA.  /me waves from Central MA.


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## bribrius (Apr 26, 2014)

manaheim said:


> MSnowy said:
> 
> 
> > Everyone here in Mass loves to talk and debate about everything thing. So I guess you could call me a Massdabator
> ...


yeah, place is full of mazzholes.....:lmao:


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## unpopular (Apr 26, 2014)

da fuq? first mishy now mana?

must be desperate for moderators.


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## runnah (Apr 26, 2014)

bribrius said:


> yeah, place is full of mazzholes.....:lmao:



Explains why I keep getting cut off during posts.


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## pjaye (Apr 26, 2014)

manaheim said:


> MSnowy said:
> 
> 
> > Everyone here in Mass loves to talk and debate about everything thing. So I guess you could call me a Massdabator
> ...



So I can come visit you both at the same time??? And shoot with MSnowy in a camo corset (me not him, although....) (as requested on a previous thread )*and* hang out with you reading your awesome writing? Oh it doesn't get any better than that.

P.S Spent my evening on my favorite chair reading your book and sitting under MSnowy's prints on my wall. I was a happy girl


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## unpopular (Apr 26, 2014)

runnah said:


> bribrius said:
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> > yeah, place is full of mazzholes.....





runnah said:


> bribrius said:
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explains why nobody understand that the shoulder on the highway isn't a lane.


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## minicoop1985 (Apr 26, 2014)

That's enough intellectualism for one day. I think it's time for a nap, where I can dream about gear some more.

OK, fro rly now, I spend a lot more time online than I do taking pictures, sure, but I also spend a hell of a lot more time editing them than taking them when I do it for work/digital/etc, because my computer's old and slow and lightroom takes FOREVER to load things so I need something to do. Or I shoot film and don't get the results back for a day.


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## bribrius (Apr 26, 2014)

symplybarb said:


> manaheim said:
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i don't blame you. i would rather hang out with the m*******s too if i were you. what would you do if you visit maine? All we do is hangout in sandpits and drink and shoot guns. About it. Well, and karoke night. The sandpits and having bonfires on a Saturday night is usually where all the action is for a wicked good time. Not so much tonight. its raining.


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## runnah (Apr 26, 2014)

Don't worry, we have our tricks.


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## pjaye (Apr 26, 2014)

bribrius said:


> symplybarb said:
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I'm good with the bonfires and the guns. As long as someone is willing to teach me how to shoot one. It's on my bucket list. The booze, I'll pass. I get drunk on one beer. and friendly. 

If I visit main I can apparently get really good pictures of people building bonfires and drinking beer?


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## runnah (Apr 26, 2014)

symplybarb said:


> I'm good with the bonfires and the guns. As long as someone is willing to teach me how to shoot one. It's on my bucket list. The booze, I'll pass. I get drunk on one beer. and friendly.  If I visit main I can apparently get really good pictures of people building bonfires and drinking beer?



That is all we do. 

Barb, drinking a few tinnies or what?


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## bribrius (Apr 26, 2014)

symplybarb said:


> bribrius said:
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course. we do that right out back here behind my place. And if you drink too much no prob. you can just sleep out there.  so sure! And we got plenty of guns you need to borrow some? Long ones, short ones, little ones, big ones, fast ones, really fast ones, lite ones, heavy ones...
Only difference here is we usually carry them around in duffel bags and llbean backpacks except for the long ones that don't fit which go on the gunrack in the truck or we just pile them up in the bed if there is too many to fit in the cab.


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## bribrius (Apr 26, 2014)

runnah said:


> symplybarb said:
> 
> 
> > I'm good with the bonfires and the guns. As long as someone is willing to teach me how to shoot one. It's on my bucket list. The booze, I'll pass. I get drunk on one beer. and friendly. If I visit main I can apparently get really good pictures of people building bonfires and drinking beer?
> ...


well no. Don't forget karaoke night.


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## MSnowy (Apr 26, 2014)

bribrius said:


> symplybarb said:
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> > manaheim said:
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Funny when I go to Maine (Howland area) that's what we do. Guns,bonfires (to cook the black flies) and booze to wash them down.


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## unpopular (Apr 26, 2014)

OMG, once I was driving into Augusta and this big guy literally had another big guy by the nose and his fist extended back about to punch the guy. both wearing plad, lumber-jack shirts, in front of a trailer completely covered in plastic wrap. There were two frizzy haired women standing around.

Late winter is when all the rednecks come out. The trees cover up all that weirdness while the tourists are around.


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## runnah (Apr 26, 2014)

unpopular said:


> OMG, once I was driving into Augusta and this big guy literally had another big guy by the nose and his fist extended back about to punch the guy. both wearing plad, lumber-jack shirts, in front of a trailer completely covered in plastic wrap. There were two frizzy haired women standing around.  Late winter is when all the rednecks come out. The trees cover up all that weirdness while the tourists are around.



Well you got the dirt poor and the über rich. The merger few of us who are hardworking taxpayers don't get out much.


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## unpopular (Apr 26, 2014)

runnah said:


> The merger few of us who are hardworking taxpayers don't get out much.



Are you an above average driver, too?


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## runnah (Apr 26, 2014)

unpopular said:


> Are you an above average driver, too?



Yes and no, and maybe.


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## unpopular (Apr 26, 2014)

your turned one question into three answers!

[mindblown]


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## bribrius (Apr 26, 2014)

MSnowy said:


> bribrius said:
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> > symplybarb said:
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im actually Portland born, with some boston influence. But spent enough time up north growing up.....
camping, hunting fishing up to the forks and we have a cabin a little further north.
it aint so bad. im kind of a cross breed. not really a northerner in maine, not really a flatlander either. so we do the bonfires but other things too. Got the old boats out yesterday. ya know, go to boston or Portland for the day, then go shoot a deer and have a bonfire, take the boat out. its all good. we do the mud rallys around here too, ya know, boggers. That's fairly new and mild entertainment. i actually don't even hunt deer anymore though. i bring out household appliances and things that are broken or that get me annoyed and i shoot them instead. we DO have the bonfires. i think that is just everywhere in maine.
Runnah is probably way more a hick than me, he lives further north.


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## unpopular (Apr 26, 2014)

nobody is addressing the real question: where the heck is Howland, ME?


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## limr (Apr 26, 2014)

unpopular said:


> nobody is addressing the real question: where the heck is Howland, ME?



Dude, use the google-fu!

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=howl...us&ei=dHFcU6nzJPOtsATqrIGADA&ved=0CIMBELYDMAo


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## unpopular (Apr 26, 2014)

I did. I figured it must have been a mistake. Everyone knows that only moose live that far north. Moose and Runnah.


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## bribrius (Apr 26, 2014)

i like it up north. problem is, there isn't any money up there. hence, i live in the south half of the state. since they shut down most of the mills, there really isn't much up north for work.


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## MSnowy (Apr 26, 2014)

bribrius said:


> MSnowy said:
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> > bribrius said:
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Oh I like having a few cold beers at Three Dollar Deweys



unpopular said:


> nobody is addressing the real question: where the heck is Howland, ME?



Way up 95


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## runnah (Apr 26, 2014)

MSnowy said:


> Way up 95



Well that's 30 mins away from me...


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## bribrius (Apr 26, 2014)

runnah said:


> MSnowy said:
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yep.........:lmao:

i have tons of relatives up there. i think they are mostly imbred though.. i got some story in that family tree i mentioned in the other thread about two cousins living on opposites side of that river that ended up with child and married. Pretty sure they were first cousins too. kind of happy my side of the tree sprang off before that but it is making me wonder about everyone up there with my last name...


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## manaheim (Apr 26, 2014)

symplybarb said:


> manaheim said:
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Awesome.  I'll be curious to hear what you think of the changes.   Are you coming out this way??



unpopular said:


> da fuq? first mishy now mana?
> 
> must be desperate for moderators.



You're just now noticing I'm a mod? Dude. lol


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## MSnowy (Apr 26, 2014)

runnah said:


> MSnowy said:
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My brother has a camp another half hour North into the woods from Howland.


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## runnah (Apr 26, 2014)

MSnowy said:


> My brother has a camp another half hour North into the woods from Howland.



Forks?


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## table1349 (Apr 26, 2014)




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## bribrius (Apr 26, 2014)

well before anyone else decides to move up here to this cold desolate god forsaken state, i just request they read one simple book first before they come. its called "the beans of Egypt maine".
just so they know what they are getting themselves in to.


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## bribrius (Apr 26, 2014)

runnah said:


> MSnowy said:
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> > My brother has a camp another half hour North into the woods from Howland.
> ...


don't play dumb. we know everyone that lives up there is a hick and  that they know where everything up there is....


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## The_Traveler (Apr 26, 2014)

Jerry, it seems more than a little hostile to tell everyone that they're doing is wrong and what they enjoy is a waste of time - because you don't want to do it.
It seems a little weak to be so passive aggressive and then sign off by telling us you're going to look at a location - like that's what the real photographers are doing while us wannabes are just talkin'

Please, cut that sh!t out.

Recite the Serenity Prayer.


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## robbins.photo (Apr 26, 2014)

limr said:


> Does anyone else appreciate the irony of this post/thread?



Nope.  I don't.  I hate irony.


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## minicoop1985 (Apr 27, 2014)

robbins.photo said:


> limr said:
> 
> 
> > Does anyone else appreciate the irony of this post/thread?
> ...



No, Robbins, you're thinking of ironING.


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## robbins.photo (Apr 27, 2014)

minicoop1985 said:


> robbins.photo said:
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Right.. that thing where you take a hot rock and run it over your shirt.  Irony, right?  I hate that.  Lol


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## unpopular (Apr 27, 2014)

so, how about them turtles?


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## pixmedic (Apr 27, 2014)

JerryVenz said:


> Why is it that photography forums--amateur and professional--seem to attract those that like to TALK about photography far more than actually DOING it?
> 
> It's very similar to the warning sign I often see when I meet someone who claims to be a professional photographer and ALL they talk about is their EQUIPMENT--they show me NO IMAGES!  And, many times, they have NO WEBSITE to show me!
> 
> ...



not to be picky but....
This post seems to imply several things. 
first, that you do not fall into the "all talk and no walk" category you feel many pros fall into. 
second, that you are privy to some magic number of "photos taken" -vs- "discussions started" ratio that a "pro" should adhere to. 

I have yet to see any evidence of either in your tenure here on TPF. 
sure...you have a few websites. sure...you are a pretty amazing photographer. And  _*sure*_, you give great advice culled from half a lifetime of professional photography... _*but*_, linking your websites and blogs in your signature does _*not*_ constitute the same participatory degree on the forum as actually posting your pictures _*here*_ for discussion, or as examples. Its really only click farming. 

I think if you are going to tell us  how its done, you should lead by example.


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## unpopular (Apr 27, 2014)

pixmedic said:


> you are a pretty amazing photographer



I think "amazing" is a bit more than generous. In my opinion, judging by the examples on his website, the OP could stand to at least *think* a bit more about art, history and theory.

My larger point is that great photographers spend time thinking about photography as much as they do practicing it.


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## timor (Apr 27, 2014)

unpopular said:


> My larger point is that great photographers spend time thinking about photography as much as they do practicing it.


I think you so right. Art, and perception of it requires as much talking as actually doing. Maybe even more talking.


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## imagemaker46 (Apr 27, 2014)

I spend more time shooting or being involved in anything else but talk about photography.  I talk about photography when people ask me questions, I give them my honest answers, sometimes quite blunt, but at least people know where I stand. I run across lots of people that talk great images, but can't shoot them, many of them are better teachers than photographers.  I'm not a technical "geek" I really don't care about how my camera works, I care that when I see something and shoot it, that it looks the same or close to the same as what I saw.  I get bored talking about all the technical aspects of photography, but also understand that lots of people enjoy talking about shutter speeds, f-stops, and the rule of thirds.  Good for them, they have taken the time to learn.

I just take pictures.  I always think about what I am going to shoot, I think about how I want something to look, sometimes it happens, and sometimes it doesn't.  It's just the way I see things and everyone sees things differently.


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## Josh66 (Apr 27, 2014)

"Gear talk" bores the **** out of me.  I can browse B&H for that.  "Art" discussions don't typically do well here, so I stopped participating in them and/or starting conversations.  There is one every now and then that really takes off  - for a little bit.  It seems like most people either don't get it or don't care and would rather mock it though.

So, I don't know, I basically browse the film sections of the forum once or twice a week and contribute if I can.  That is the extent on my contribution here these days.


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## unpopular (Apr 27, 2014)

I concur that gear talk is annoying. But discussing some technical elements is important, and is as much a part as photography as anything else.

Canon v. Nikon w*nking I can definitely do without.


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## minicoop1985 (Apr 27, 2014)

I'll admit, I'm bored of Canikon technical specs, but I can talk old film gear all day, and do it fairly often.


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## bribrius (Apr 27, 2014)

unpopular said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> > you are a pretty amazing photographer
> ...


why would he want to learn about art? we do photography.


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## table1349 (Apr 27, 2014)

bribrius said:


> unpopular said:
> 
> 
> > pixmedic said:
> ...


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## unpopular (Apr 27, 2014)

bribrius said:


> unpopular said:
> 
> 
> > pixmedic said:
> ...



I didn't choose the troll life...


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## bribrius (Apr 28, 2014)

unpopular said:


> bribrius said:
> 
> 
> > unpopular said:
> ...


I really am sometimes however....
it is still a valid point. if you tell someone you are a artist  being a photographer is about the last thing that will come to mind for them. painter, sculptor, hell even a makeup artist probably would have more ground than being a photographer with most. Most of photography is about capturing what OTHERS are doing. Most photographers probably shouldnt even be allowed to comment on art unless they paint, sculpt, something else too. How much of photography would be classified as art by most people. .002 percent? Ever notice how much easier it is for someone to get a painting shown than a photograph? The price differences? Photograph a hundred dollars, painting a thousand dollars. The pricing reflects the consensus.  Not even the same ball field, even the art world doesn't consider photography in the same realm..


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## bribrius (Apr 28, 2014)

here is a good read..
"Is Photography Art?" by Robert Balcomb (The Essay Page): TheScreamOnline Internet e-Journal of Fiction, Art, Photography, Essays, The Strange & Bizarre


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## PixelRabbit (Apr 28, 2014)

Art is in the eye of the beholder.

I consider some of my photography art regardless of the fact that some don't, personally it comes down to that I put a lot of time and effort into creating the pictures I consider art and I get a huge personal payoff from it, that some others enjoy it also just makes that payoff that much sweeter.


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## bribrius (Apr 28, 2014)

Is Photography Art?

I close my case. A artist CAN BE a photographer. But a photographer is not a artist.


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## bribrius (Apr 28, 2014)

PixelRabbit said:


> Art is in the eye of the beholder.
> 
> I consider some of my photography art regardless of the fact that some don't, personally it comes down to that I put a lot of time and effort into creating the pictures I consider art and I get a huge personal payoff from it, that some others enjoy it also just makes that payoff that much sweeter.


perhaps you are a artist first, photographer second?


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## PixelRabbit (Apr 28, 2014)

bribrius said:


> PixelRabbit said:
> 
> 
> > Art is in the eye of the beholder.
> ...



Photographs are my chosen medium, my camera, computer and printer/darkroom are my tools, photography is the act of creating my chosen medium.


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## PixelRabbit (Apr 28, 2014)

BUT....

Not all people who practice photography have the intention of creating art, just like not all people who use the medium of paint are creating art, a house painter uses the medium but has no intention of creating art, they are using the medium for another purpose.


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## PixelRabbit (Apr 28, 2014)

Oh damn! Just realized what thread we are posting in, oh the ironing!!!


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## bribrius (Apr 28, 2014)

PixelRabbit said:


> BUT....
> 
> Not all people who practice photography have the intention of creating art, just like not all people who use the medium of paint are creating art, a house painter uses the medium but has no intention of creating art, they are using the medium for another purpose.


you have other mediums too? seems most artistic people are artists in life in general. paint, sculpt, don't matter it's who they are. Give them a pencil they can draw and a coloring book and crayons they can even make a coloring book amazing. I like photography because I tried painting and I was okay at it but not great. Photography takes less artistic qualities for me. My wife isn't really into photography much, has trouble using a camera off auto, but can paint better than me and scribble out your portrait on a piece of paper without even noticing she's doing it. go figure.

for the record, in case no one noticed. I have almost zero artistic genes. so im not claiming to be a artist here id say the majority of everyone probably is more artistic than myself..


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## Overread (Apr 28, 2014)

PixelRabbit said:


> Oh damn! Just realized what thread we are posting in, oh the ironing!!!



I can make the pain go away - just ask and I can make it all go away (I sadly can't make the ironing go away - at least unless you can supply me with petrol, matches and a new ID).


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## robbins.photo (Apr 28, 2014)

PixelRabbit said:


> Oh damn! Just realized what thread we are posting in, oh the ironing!!!



On the upside I got a lot of nice, crisp unwrinkled shirts out of the deal.  The downside of course being that I had sit through all of this to get there.. lol.  I think this positively proves the reason why dry cleaning is still around.

Is photography art?  Well first somebody will say we need to define art, but since you can't define art - NASCAR ensues.  If a tree falls in the woods and nobodies there to hear it..  Which came first, the chicken or the egg?  And if your not a chicken, why would you even give a crap?  Ad nauesuem. Lol.  

So ya, suddenly ironing - not looking that bad.. rotfl


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## robbins.photo (Apr 28, 2014)

Overread said:


> PixelRabbit said:
> 
> 
> > Oh damn! Just realized what thread we are posting in, oh the ironing!!!
> ...



Petrol - isn't that the crazy UK version of gasoline?  Lol


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## bribrius (Apr 28, 2014)

robbins.photo said:


> PixelRabbit said:
> 
> 
> > Oh damn! Just realized what thread we are posting in, oh the ironing!!!
> ...


it's all b.s. 
lol.....
im actually surprised this thread is still going. But I don't feel guilty b.s. ing in it I took some photos last night, granted, not very good ones but at least I hit the shutter..
so I can b.s. guilty free for another day...


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## PixelRabbit (Apr 28, 2014)

Overread said:


> PixelRabbit said:
> 
> 
> > Oh damn! Just realized what thread we are posting in, oh the ironing!!!
> ...



lol damn if gas didn't just go up to 1.40/L I'd start over as just a simple Rabbit but I have matches....and bacon....(no not the Canadian kind before you all pull that one out lol  )


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## Derrel (Apr 28, 2014)

bribrius said:


> just now. perfect example of why. i go out with the camera. turn it on. no memory card. goes in demo mode. Take ten wonderful shots. One i had been thinking of for a while. thinking im not sure if i can get them back off as they are in camera but cant afford not to try.. turn the camera off. And they are poof gone. I guess nothing is saved in camera, lesson learned.
> i cant believe i forgot to bring a memory card.
> 
> UGGGGGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> ...



Total rookie move....telling us about *the FIRST TIME you forgot* the memory card...come back when you've done it 3,4,5 times and THEN  tell us your war story!!!  (I've done it 3 times, that I will admit to...)


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## bribrius (Apr 28, 2014)

Derrel said:


> bribrius said:
> 
> 
> > just now. perfect example of why. i go out with the camera. turn it on. no memory card. goes in demo mode. Take ten wonderful shots. One i had been thinking of for a while. thinking im not sure if i can get them back off as they are in camera but cant afford not to try.. turn the camera off. And they are poof gone. I guess nothing is saved in camera, lesson learned.
> ...



its all good. made up for it today. contributed one of my photos to the local historical fans club im in at my wifes urging(first thing i've ever contributed and been in it for a long time), they like recent ones too for comparison I guess and since I collect photos and shoot photos ive collected.... Its more historical based for the southern maine region just a little club nothing professional. Already had 22 thankyous and just posted it over there a hour ago. My good deed for the week, maybe my karma will get better now and I wont forget memory cards.


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## bribrius (Apr 28, 2014)

thanks derrel.  something really to be said for the "know your audience".


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## otherprof (Apr 28, 2014)

So thoughts about photographs, as in "What can one read from a photograph?" are intellectual masturbation. But thoughts about those thoughts ("reminded me of the intellectual masturabation . . .") are not. I think I could enjoy both conversations. 
I once had a student in a philosophy class who responded to a discussion of St. Anselm's Ontological Argument for the existence of God by slamming his book on desk and declaring, "This is just mental masturbation!" My response surprised even me. I asked "Do you object to it because it is mental?" He left class and never came back.


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## bribrius (Apr 28, 2014)

otherprof said:


> So thoughts about photographs, as in "What can one read from a photograph?" are intellectual masturbation. But thoughts about those thoughts ("reminded me of the intellectual masturabation . . .") are not. I think I could enjoy both conversations.
> I once had a student in a philosophy class who responded to a discussion of St. Anselm's Ontological Argument for the existence of God by slamming his book on desk and declaring, "This is just mental masturbation!" My response surprised even me. I asked "Do you object to it because it is mental?" He left class and never came back.


just imagine if you brought up pascals theory or the omega point theories.


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## bribrius (Apr 28, 2014)

I take what I said in post 91 back. now that im seeing the likes on the facebook page too (not a bad thing) im also seeing the photo being shared and passed around on facebook. Granted im not a pro and much of my stuff, well is a acquired taste, but that is pretty annoying watching your photo bounce and being shared with no credit due. so much for it staying within the club. so far I have only seen ONE person give reference to me. Plenty of thankyous, plenty of likes. But passing it on just ONE. That is annoying.

why they couldn't have kept it where I contributed it I coudnt tell ya.


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## pixmedic (Apr 28, 2014)

bribrius said:


> I take what I said in post 91 back. now that im seeing the likes on the facebook page too (not a bad thing) im also seeing the photo being shared and passed around on facebook. Granted im not a pro and much of my stuff, well is a acquired taste, but that is pretty annoying watching your photo bounce and being shared with no credit due. so much for it staying within the club. so far I have only seen ONE person give reference to me. Plenty of thankyous, plenty of likes. But passing it on just ONE. That is annoying.
> 
> why they couldn't have kept it where I contributed it I coudnt tell ya.



That's what watermarks are for


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## bribrius (Apr 28, 2014)

pixmedic said:


> bribrius said:
> 
> 
> > I take what I said in post 91 back. now that im seeing the likes on the facebook page too (not a bad thing) im also seeing the photo being shared and passed around on facebook. Granted im not a pro and much of my stuff, well is a acquired taste, but that is pretty annoying watching your photo bounce and being shared with no credit due. so much for it staying within the club. so far I have only seen ONE person give reference to me. Plenty of thankyous, plenty of likes. But passing it on just ONE. That is annoying.
> ...


grrrrrrrr.
I don't have lightroom, still no watermark. Normally I never have a issue because none of my stuff really goes on line anyway im not that eager actually recluse.. no website, no flikr, not many people on my facebook page mostly family (I limit it who is on it and what I have for photos on it) and no one goes through my drives or prints without me there  so...
I don't normally share or run into this issue I don't publicize other than b.s.. 
couldn't use it in this case anyway how could you contribute a photo ruined with a watermark? maybe I do need one I dunno..


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## unpopular (Apr 28, 2014)

Derrel said:


> bribrius said:
> 
> 
> > just now. perfect example of why. i go out with the camera. turn it on. no memory card. goes in demo mode. Take ten wonderful shots. One i had been thinking of for a while. thinking im not sure if i can get them back off as they are in camera but cant afford not to try.. turn the camera off. And they are poof gone. I guess nothing is saved in camera, lesson learned.
> ...



At least it wasn't one tripod leg. I mean, I've HEARD of that happening to *someone else*. Not me... Never.


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## TinySquid (Apr 28, 2014)

bribrius said:


> I don't have lightroom, still no watermark.



You could toss a watermark on your images using GIMP... it's not as powerful as Photoshop but it's free, open-source, and fairly capable.


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