# DSLR for Videos? Old-time Dilema, Again.



## MidEastGal (Jan 3, 2013)

Hello,

I am a brand new member here. My question might be old-time-worn but I just had to ask again. Why? Because things change quick in this field. I want to buy a camera for short videos/documentaries and also will be needing to take high quality stills. I am a beginner student and work in social media where I will need to do short films. I aspire to do professional documentaries in the near (hopefully) future. 


I read some threads here about this question of mine; yet, I wanted a fresh look at it in hopes of gaining the most recent views. My budget is around 
$800 - $ 1000. Can I do decent HD videos with a DSLR? HDSLR vs. Camcorder? Which ones you recommend? What extra gear would I need as beginner to make up for audio? I heard good recommendations about the Canon 60D (~ $1000) and a Sony A57 (~ $700).     

Any tips would be appreciated.

Thanks.


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## thevideographer (Jan 3, 2013)

Get a used 60D with 1 or 2 lenses and a Rode Videomic.  That should be close to your $1000 budget.


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## TheKenTurner (Jan 4, 2013)

People say 60D but you should be fine with a T3i. Equipment: you'll probably want primes instead of a zoom lens, and if you get a zoom lens, get one with a constant aperture 

Sorry I'd answer more but I'm tired and on my phone

-Ken Turner


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## brunerww (Jan 5, 2013)

Hi MidEastGal and welcome to the forum.  Since you plan to shoot docs, you may want a camera that can shoot long interview takes.  The 60D and T3i shut off after 12 minutes of continuous recording (you have to restart them) and the A57 shuts off after 30.  My first video capable DSLR was a Canon T2i, but I sold it and replaced it with a Panasonic GH2, a DSLM (where "M" is for mirrorless), rather than a DSLR - primarily because the mirror gets in the way of the viewfinder when shooting video.

The GH2's video clip length is essentially unlimited - and its viewfinder and autofocus continue working in video mode (unlike the Canons - where the viewfinder goes black due to "mirror lockup" and the autofocus stops working as soon as you switch from stills to video).

Here is an example of a travel documentary shot with the GH2:

[video=vimeo;42107369]http://vimeo.com/42107369[/video]

You can find more examples of what this camera can do at Videos in "Panasonic GH2" on Vimeo

And here is what still shooters are doing with it: Flickr: The Panasonic DMC GH Camera Club (GH1, GH2, GH3) Pool

You can get a new GH2 with the 14-42 kit lens on eBay.ca for less than $1000CDN.

Hope this is helpful and Best of the New Year,

Bill


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## Railphotog (Jan 5, 2013)

The Canon T4i focuses during video shooting, and the Canon 18-135 STM lens focuses silently.


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## brunerww (Jan 5, 2013)

Here's my test of the T4i touchscreen autofocus with the 40mm STM (not the 18-135, which was not available when I rented this camera) - note how its autofocus "hunts" and the noise from the autofocus motor (and the camera's viewfinder still blanks out):


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## brunerww (Jan 5, 2013)

Contrast that with touchscreen autofocus using the GH2 - no autofocus "hunting" - and the 14-140 lens is absolutely silent:


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## MidEastGal (Jan 5, 2013)

TheKenTurner said:


> People say 60D but you should be fine with a T3i. Equipment: you'll probably want primes instead of a zoom lens, and if you get a zoom lens, get one with a constant aperture
> 
> Sorry I'd answer more but I'm tired and on my phone
> 
> -Ken Turner



Ken, Thanks for your reply. I would actually prefer if I can find cheaper than the D60, especially that I have no specific experience with neither. Is there a professional sample video/film shot with T3i that you could direct me to? Also, what about th eperiod of video on the T3i, how long till it shuts/stops?


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## MidEastGal (Jan 5, 2013)

thevideographer said:


> Get a used 60D with 1 or 2 lenses and a Rode Videomic.  That should be close to your $1000 budget.



Videographer, Thanks for teh tip on buying "used". I will look into such options!


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## MidEastGal (Jan 5, 2013)

brunerww said:


> Hi MidEastGal and welcome to the forum.  Since you plan to shoot docs, you may want a camera that can shoot long interview takes.  The 60D and T3i shut off after 12 minutes of continuous recording (you have to restart them) and the A57 shuts off after 30.  My first video capable DSLR was a Canon T2i, but I sold it and replaced it with a Panasonic GH2, a DSLM (where "M" is for mirrorless), rather than a DSLR - primarily because the mirror gets in the way of the viewfinder when shooting video.
> 
> The GH2's video clip length is essentially unlimited - and its viewfinder and autofocus continue working in video mode (unlike the Canons - where the viewfinder goes black due to "mirror lockup" and the autofocus stops working as soon as you switch from stills to video).
> 
> ...



Brunerww, Thank you so muc for the detailed reply with examples! Now you have opened my eyes to a totally new option than what I came here for which I appreciate. I spent a couple of hours researching sample videos with eth Panasonic GH2 (and 1). The price is great. Videos look amazing especially by that Gunther Machu on Vimeo. Yet, I Googled in general on DSLM vs. DSLR and I was surprised at some negative reviews about the DSLM/mirrorless such as (why would you buy a "wannabe" DSLR and goa  step below the latest technoloygy) and the like. Again, I am sure there is negative review for prety much anything. It's just I am still weary of going to a total unorthodox choice as it is not so popular. Would you please elaborate on this? I really liked the price as it will give me room to buy gear/lenses but I don't want to regret after I buy a camera that I didn't ask all the questions.


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## MidEastGal (Jan 5, 2013)

Guys, one more point I wanted to ask about (maybe I'll also post in a separate thread). I already have a Canon Power Shot Sx30 IS. I bought it last year when I was doinga  photography project for school. It did a nice job, but now that I am moving up I started looking in the DSLR and the like. Would I have use for this older Canon of mine or should I try to sell it? I really want to know how valuable it is to have it as a second camera?


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## sekhar (Jan 5, 2013)

Yes, GH2 is an incredible camera and a steal at current prices (which I guess dropped because of GH3). You really need to see the footage, it's unbelievable at that price point. There are a ton of comparisons on the net too against much more expensive cameras (including 5D3), where GH2 nicely holds its own. No wonder GH2 is so popular among indie filmmakers. It even has some unique features like clean HDMI out. You might want to apply the firmware hack if you decide to go with it.

Remember though that GH2 has a sensor that's smaller than APS-C. Be sure to check the depth of field and low light capabilities (if you plan to shoot in available light) to make sure you like them.


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## TehYoyo (Jan 5, 2013)

MidEastGal said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am a brand new member here. My question might be old-time-worn but I just had to ask again. Why? Because things change quick in this field. I want to buy a camera for short videos/documentaries and also will be needing to take high quality stills. I am a beginner student and work in social media where I will need to do short films. I aspire to do professional documentaries in the near (hopefully) future.
> 
> ...



I'd _definitely_, with all my heart, recommend getting a dSLR.

I just got an A57 and it's great.  You only need 24p if you want to do documentaries/short films b/c you definitely want the 24p look.  If you really need 30p, you can just deinterlace 60i in post.  It also shoots great stills.

I got mine for $550 (body only.  If you're getting it on Amazon, which I would recommend, prices will stay lower-than-normal until about January 28th, according to historical price trends on Amazon.  From there, I would get two nice lenses.  My first and most heavy recommendation would be to get old SR-mount lenses and then modify them using this guide.  If you're not up to that (which is understandable), I'd get a standard 50mm f/1.8 and another lens that you like.  I'd also get a microphone, although not necessarily the Rode Pro (which is what most would recommend).  Check out 



 video for great recommendations on cheap microphones that still sound good.


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## MidEastGal (Jan 5, 2013)

sekhar said:


> Yes, GH2 is an incredible camera and a steal at current prices (which I guess dropped because of GH3). You really need to see the footage, it's unbelievable at that price point. There are a ton of comparisons on the net too against much more expensive cameras (including 5D3), where GH2 nicely holds its own. No wonder GH2 is so popular among indie filmmakers. It even has some unique features like clean HDMI out. You might want to apply the firmware hack if you decide to go with it.
> 
> Remember though that GH2 has a sensor that's smaller than APS-C. Be sure to check the depth of field and low light capabilities (if you plan to shoot in available light) to make sure you like them.



Sekhar, Thank you. I will add another question to you and the others above. What about the stills on the GH2? As I said I am interested in both. My current Canon (Power Shot Sx30 IS) is neither DSLR nor DSLM, it's almost only a fancy point and shoot! and I am afraid of buying a camera that is just a bit better. I want to make sure it is much better professionally.


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## MidEastGal (Jan 5, 2013)

TehYoyo said:


> MidEastGal said:
> 
> 
> > Hello,
> ...



TehYoyo, Thank you for the enthusiastic reply. Oh my! I am getting total opposite replies regarding DSLR and DSLM... I am totally split between both at the moment. Seeing that video up on vimeo made me lean a lot towards the GH2, though, and with that sweet price. But I care too about the stills. I want to ask you, what do you say regarding teh tip above on the length of the video shooting on the Sony A57, for example? Is it irritably short taht I need to stop every 10 minutes or so? Are there other cameras you know of DSLR good video and still?


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## sekhar (Jan 5, 2013)

MidEastGal said:


> Sekhar, Thank you. I will add another question to you and the others above. What about the stills on the GH2? As I said I am interested in both. My current Canon (Power Shot Sx30 IS) is neither DSLR nor DSLM, it's almost only a fancy point and shoot! and I am afraid of buying a camera that is just a bit better. I want to make sure it is much better professionally.


I think it produces good looking stills as well, but you'll need to decide yourself. Like I said, be sure to check the depth of field because that's not going to be as shallow as with larger sensors, but it could actually work in your favor depending on the kind of shots you plan to take. I suggest going to a place like Flickr and searching for GH2: you'll be able to not only check out the look of GH2 images for the situations you have in mind, but also compare GH2 with the APS-C cameras you're also considering.


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## TehYoyo (Jan 5, 2013)

Wow.  This turned out way longer than I thought it would.  Oh well &#8211; I&#8217;ve bolded what&#8217;s really important, although I advise you read all of it (painful as that is ).



MidEastGal said:


> TehYoyo, Thank you for the enthusiastic reply. Oh my! I am getting total opposite replies regarding DSLR and DSLM... I am totally split between both at the moment. Seeing that video up on vimeo made me lean a lot towards the GH2, though, and with that sweet price. But I care too about the stills. I want to ask you, what do you say regarding teh tip above on the length of the video shooting on the Sony A57, for example? Is it irritably short taht I need to stop every 10 minutes or so? Are there other cameras you know of DSLR good video and still?


Sure - no problem.

Mirrorless cameras (I've never heard the term DSLM before - dunno if it's a thing) are the latest craze - which isn't a bad thing.  In fact, they're quite good.  They produce high quality stills _and_ video and are compact and light - a lot of people don't like carrying around large dSLRs.  I got my Sony dSLT (same as a dSLR for this particular discussion) because I didn't think I'd mind carrying it around - I can't tell you what I think as of now b/c I got it 4 hours ago in the mail (it's great so far, though ).

*One counterargument against mirrorless is that, with any lens on them, they're still unpocketable, as their size markets them to be*.  You'll still need to wear it on your neck or carry it in a bag of some sort (I'd recommend around the neck).

*As to the video on Vimeo, you can capture that with any dSLR*, from the Canon EOS Rebel T2i to the Canon 5d Mark III to the Nikon D800 (with uncompressed HDMI output) to the Sony NEX line to the Panasonic GH2.

In regards to time limits, if you're making your own short films, movies, webshows, etc, *you're really not going to go over 12 minutes, or even come close (or else you're probably doing it wrong)*.  The only time that issue has come up in a discussion I've been in is when this guy wanted to record a lacrosse game continuously.  Even then, I told him just to wait for a break to make a new file.  Easy.  My Sony A57 can record up to 30 minutes, by the way.

Quick note about stop times and uncompressed HDMI output:
Research Magic Lantern.  Now, as a Sony owner, I don't use Magic Lantern and so I haven't investigated it in-depth myself.  However, from what I do know, it's a firmware (the software/program that runs on your camera) that adds extra features to a camera that users want but can't get with the standard firmware.  I do believe that Magic Lantern for all Canon cameras offers uncompressed HDMI output (which you won&#8217;t use unless you&#8217;re really serious, although it&#8217;s worth looking up to see what the big deal is).  Also, it handles auto-stop times the same way as the Panasonic GH2 - when it reaches the limit, it skips 3 seconds (i.e. creates a new file) and continues to record.  Judge how detrimental that is to your work w/ your own judgement.  It might matter to you, it might not.

As for recommendations, I was in the same boat as you (although with a smaller budget) just a few days ago.  I wanted to get a dSLR that could produce good images (I wasn't going to nitpick, though - I went into it accepting that all dSLR images were _good_ compared to what I had been seeing (i.e. point and shoot) and so that wasn't a huge issue, although features like 10 fps at full resolution pushed me towards Sony) and could record 1080p footage at 30 fps at least.  I also had a few features that I was looking for (fully-articulating screen, good or cheap lens lineup, etc).

*I ended going with the Sony A57 over the Canon T3i for a few reasons:
10 fps continuous shooting stills at full resolution*.  Seriously.  Will I use it a lot?  No.  Probably not.  But it's _so_ nice to have and listen to.  Awesome.  Go to Best Buy and compare continuous on the A57 and the T3i and you'll see.

*60 fps at 1080p for slow motion (video).*  No other consumer dSLR has that feature.

There were a few other motivations, like being different (I like standing out, and since almost every single novice has a Rebel of some sort, I felt cool buying a Sony), wanting to use old Minolta lenses on my camera, etc.


*My recommendation for you:*
At this point, it really doesn't matter what you get.  If you *really, really* want the small(er) size of a mirrorless camera, I would say get the Panasonic or the Sony NEX of your choice (choose based on what features you want/price/etc).  But, I would advise you to get either the Canon Rebel T3i (which I consider the "safer" choice b/c it's so established, more support, etc.) or the Sony A57 (more risk/reward I think).  A few reasons:
1) Lenses.  Lenses are infinitely more important than the body.  See 



 for more.
2) Features/Expandibility.  Just b/c of the larger form factor, DSLRs can do more or at least do the off-the-beaten-path things better
3) Larger sensor(like what Sekhar said)

*All of that said (and if you&#8217;re this far, congrats!), keep in mind that, in the grand scheme of things, the camera and the lens doesn&#8217;t matter as much as the person who is using it.  Put a newbie in front of a Canon EOS 1DX with a 24-70L, a 17L TS-E, a 50mm 1.4L, a 70-200L (a few of the nicest lenses that Canon makes), etc. etc. etc. and give a professional an iPhone 5 and I guarantee that the professional will take infinitely better pictures.
If you watched the 2008 Olympics, I&#8217;m sure you noticed the hype about the Speedo LZR Racer suit &#8211; it was supposed to go extra fast.  I remember one person said something to the general extent of &#8220;I tested it.  I threw it in the water and it didn&#8217;t move, so I guess I still have to swim.&#8221;  The same is true of cameras.  The camera is only the tool &#8211; you still gotta make pictures.*


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## brunerww (Jan 5, 2013)

Hi MidEastGal - sadly, not a lot of people have experience shooting video with both DSLRs and DSLMs, so you will hear a lot of opinions that are somewhat less than well-informed.  I have shot video and stills with both types of camera, and once people go high-end mirrorless, it is very rare for them to go back. 

Here is a little video-centric matrix that may be helpful:

Canon DSLR: Clip limit - 12 to 30 minutes; Video autofocus - no (except T4i); Video viewfinder - no; Silent autofocus lenses - no 

Sony DSLT ("T" is for Translucent Mirror): Clip limit - 30 min; Video autofocus - yes; Video viewfinder - yes; Silent autofocus lenses - no

Panasonic DSLM: Clip limit - hours; Video autofocus - yes; Video viewfinder - yes; Silent autofocus lenses - yes

DSLMs are *not* perfect cameras.  Although my GH2 takes fabulous stills, my old T2i was a better still camera, in my view.  But, as cameras designed from the ground up for video, they are a much better blend of still and video capability than legacy DSLRs. And they are lighter in weight, smaller in size, and often less expensive.

Here is what Will Crockett at discovermirrorless.com says of the new GH3: 






Again, hope that is helpful!

Bill

P.S. - it's not me calling them DSLMs, it's Panasonic 

P.P.S. - I didn't invent DSLT either


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## rexbobcat (Jan 5, 2013)

brunerww said:
			
		

> Hi MidEastGal - sadly, not a lot of people have experience shooting video with both DSLRs and DSLMs, so you will hear a lot of opinions that are somewhat less than well-informed.  I have shot video and stills with both types of camera, and once people go high-end mirrorless, it is very rare for them to go back.
> 
> Here is a little video-centric matrix that may be helpful:
> 
> ...



I love how your claims for people rarely going back are substantiated with data 

Jk

The only issue I have with mirrorless for video is the relatively small range of high quality native lenses (on the level of Canon/Nikon) and how they can struggle at low light because of sensor sizes and general camera performance.

For general video shooting though the GH3 is a good choice.


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## brunerww (Jan 5, 2013)

I agree, rexbobcat - there are no statistical studies.  That said, several people I respect have switched (e.g., dvxuser.com Canon moderator M. Gilden has pretty much switched for video, Will Crockett and several of the photographers at discovermirrorless have switched for stills and video or declared that their current DSLRs are the last ones they're ever going to buy:






I personally still own a Nikon DSLR and pull it out for specific purposes - but not for video 

Cheers,

Bill

P.S. - I don't know how many of you are old enough to remember this, but this is suddenly starting to remind me of the old Tareyton advertising campaign


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## rexbobcat (Jan 5, 2013)

brunerww said:
			
		

> I agree, rexbobcat - there are no statistical studies.  That said, several people I respect have switched (e.g., dvxuser.com Canon moderator M. Gilden has pretty much switched for video, Will Crockett and several of the photographers at discovermirrorless have switched for stills and video or declared that their current DSLRs are the last ones they're ever going to buy:
> 
> YouTube Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5D3bJK9cUg
> 
> ...



I do think that mirrorless is good for video right now compared to a lot of the other options. I have a 60D and the GH2 has much less moire and is sharper in video than the 60D, but now that Canon has come out with the 5DIII which has true downsampling to reduce moire and ha dramatically better comparative ISO performance I've decided to stick with the DSLR for now. Lol


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## sekhar (Jan 5, 2013)

brunerww said:


> I agree, rexbobcat - there are no statistical studies.  That said, several people I respect have switched (e.g., dvxuser.com Canon moderator M. Gilden has pretty much switched for video, Will Crockett and several of the photographers at discovermirrorless have switched for stills and video or declared that their current DSLRs are the last ones they're ever going to buy


OK, now you're pushing it.  GH2 is great value and terrific for video, but to say (or imply as you did here) that it's better than a DSLR in general is crazy. For one thing, you're going to be stuck with electronic viewfinder, slow focusing, poor low light performance, and large depth of field. I suppose you can get by with manual focus, but depth of field in particular tends to be a big deal to indie filmmakers whose primary goal in life is to make their video look like film, and the most brain-dead way to get there is to use shallow depth of field.


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## TehYoyo (Jan 5, 2013)

sekhar said:


> brunerww said:
> 
> 
> > I agree, rexbobcat - there are no statistical studies.  That said, several people I respect have switched (e.g., dvxuser.com Canon moderator M. Gilden has pretty much switched for video, Will Crockett and several of the photographers at discovermirrorless have switched for stills and video or declared that their current DSLRs are the last ones they're ever going to buy
> ...



[sarcasm]Dude sekhar you're forgetting one thing.  brunerww has not _only_ shot stills, but he's also shot video.  It's really incredible.  Obviously, you're opinion is clearly less informed than his.  Cuz, y'know, he's shot stills and video.  Like.  Wow.[/sarcasm]

Now before a flame war begins, I hope we can all agree that a full frame Nikon d800 or EOS 1DX will produce better stills and videos _in the right person's hands (i.e. compare the images from the same person)_ especially in the areas of shallow depth of field and low light performance.  Aren't a lot of people asking for a full-frame DSLM, as they've been termed? (The answer is yes)

And to brunerww, I'd appreciate it if you lose the presumption of superiority.  Just for the sake of being... nice.


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## brunerww (Jan 5, 2013)

Peace.  I am certainly not claiming superiority to anyone.  I just feel badly for people like this and this who are surprised when they try to shoot video and their cameras shut down after 12 minutes or their autofocus doesn't work.

I apologize to anyone who was offended, but I think it is important to let people know about these limitations before they buy these cameras - instead of after they've invested their hard earned money.


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## TehYoyo (Jan 5, 2013)

brunerww said:


> Peace.  I am certainly not claiming superiority to anyone.  I just feel badly for people like this and this who are surprised when they try to shoot video and their cameras shut down after 12 minutes or their autofocus doesn't work.
> 
> I apologize to anyone who was offended, but I think it is important to let people know about these limitations before they buy these cameras - instead of after they've invested their hard earned money.



That's fine.  Maybe I overreacted.  I feel badly as well. I suppose if you do your own research (including posting on forums and asking for help), you should avoid most of it.

Oh, and MidEastGal, I'd recommend you try the cameras out in-store if at all possible.


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## MidEastGal (Jan 7, 2013)

sekhar said:


> brunerww said:
> 
> 
> > I agree, rexbobcat - there are no statistical studies.  That said, several people I respect have switched (e.g., dvxuser.com Canon moderator M. Gilden has pretty much switched for video, Will Crockett and several of the photographers at discovermirrorless have switched for stills and video or declared that their current DSLRs are the last ones they're ever going to buy
> ...



Sekhr, Thanks for your reply above about the stills. I will check images on Flickr. And thanks for your second message here on the depth of field. I certainly want my films to look like films  I have to read and watch more on that, I confess.


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## MidEastGal (Jan 7, 2013)

TehYoyo, Thank you! Wow! I appreciate the time it took you to reply and the resourceful answer and sharing your personal experience. I have a lot to think about in your reply and probably I might send again ... But for now why did you say "risk/reward" about the A57? The local store here recommended this one to me as I mentioned in my thread above and the price was not bad at all around 800 which gives me chance to buy gear. I frankly do prefer if the camera is well under 1000 so I buy gear but this is my ultimate limit. I am getting interested in the A57. Looking forward to more update from you once you start using it. I wonder what was the price you got it for if you don't mind me asking. Lots to think about, again. 




TehYoyo said:


> Wow.  This turned out way longer than I thought it would.  Oh well &#8211; I&#8217;ve bolded what&#8217;s really important, although I advise you read all of it (painful as that is ).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## MidEastGal (Jan 7, 2013)

Brunerww, Thank you for such an informative reply especially with the comparison. I am amazed taht the time I am going to buy a DSLR is the time when there is such a heated debate about them and DSLM (Mirrorless). I kind like to go against the main stream, but in this one I am still a bit afaraid to head to mirrorless. Seems to me I have to pass through the DSLR then switch after that. (seems silly) but I feel I want to catch up with the historical development and own a DSLR. Maybe in the future I will buy a second one as a DSLM and keep both. I will need a backup in all cases and one will produce better images; the other better video support (I guess). I am not sure yet but this is what came to my mind after reading today's answers I received from you guys and the other readings on websites and comparing features. 

I still will need any useful tips if anybody remembers a new idea to share!   Still thinking. ...:er:



brunerww said:


> Hi MidEastGal - sadly, not a lot of people have experience shooting video with both DSLRs and DSLMs, so you will hear a lot of opinions that are somewhat less than well-informed.  I have shot video and stills with both types of camera, and once people go high-end mirrorless, it is very rare for them to go back.
> 
> Here is a little video-centric matrix that may be helpful:
> 
> ...


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## MidEastGal (Jan 7, 2013)

Rexbobcat, Thank you for your input and sharing experience. I liked your website, by the way. About the sensor and general performance especially in low light, could you please tell more about these points? I like low light.    



rexbobcat said:


> brunerww said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## rexbobcat (Jan 7, 2013)

MidEastGal said:
			
		

> Rexbobcat, Thank you for your input and sharing experience. I liked your website, by the way. About the sensor and general performance especially in low light, could you please tell more about these points? I like low light.



Well thank you. 

Generally mirrorless sensors as of right now are smaller than DSLR sensors.

There are some exceptions like the Sony NEX system, which has an APS-C size sensor, but cameras like the GH3 have a Micro 4/3rds size sensor. 

Here is a chart of sensor sizes:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sensor_sizes_overlaid_inside.svg

The larger the sensor, the better the lowlight performance because the sensor can gather more light as well as dissipate heat better.

Therefore, if you look at lowlight, high ISO footage comparison between, say, a GH3 and a 5D Mark II - even though the GH3 is newer, it will have worse noise at high ISO than the 5D because the 5D's sensor is approximately 3 times larger.

The more versatility you want, the more money you have to spend basically.


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## brunerww (Jan 7, 2013)

Marlene Hielema did a blog post on this very topic with side-by-side photos and video: ISO Noise Comparison: Lumix GH3 and Canon 5D Mk2 : DiscoverMirrorless.com

Hope this is helpful.


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## TehYoyo (Jan 7, 2013)

You like low light... until you have to shoot handheld in it lol.

Anyways, I think if you're gonna get a full frame sensor (which you won't with $800), you might wanna check out the D600/800.  Those have great low-light performance.


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## brunerww (Jan 8, 2013)

TehYoyo said:


> You like low light... until you have to shoot handheld in it lol.
> 
> Anyways, I think if you're gonna get a full frame sensor (which you won't with $800), you might wanna check out the D600/800.  Those have great low-light performance.



As I recall, she is an aspiring doc shooter with a $1000 budget and these are cameras with slow and noisy video autofocus that cost $2000-$3000. Your A57 or a GH2 are probably better choices.


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## MidEastGal (Jan 8, 2013)

Brunerww, Thank you for replying. 

TehYoyo, same as what Brunerww said ... Thanks for the suggestions, though. All learning experience when any one suggests anything. The price in this case is the major deterrant, of course. 

I am kind of still leaning towards the A57 mainly for price and the local store guy recommendation. He said some professionals use it as their backup. Anyways still researching. 






brunerww said:


> TehYoyo said:
> 
> 
> > You like low light... until you have to shoot handheld in it lol.
> ...


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## MidEastGal (Jan 8, 2013)

Guys, I am flying to another city in Canada for a medical procedure I have to get done. I was thinking of filiming my experience as it's related to a documentary I aspire to be able to make very soon. It matters to me personally. 

Now seems I cannot make up my mind before my trip (Thursday!---yes, 3 weeks I was optimistic I will find one and learn how to use it before trip. Don't judge. :er:  :study:  :thumbdown:

Anyways, the important thing now is the story. I want to capture what happens in that trip and if need be even on my iPhone. But do you guys have advice? Can I for example use my Canon Power Shot Sx30 (fancy point and shoot with very high zoom :meh? Later, if I made a decent documentary with a new camera, would it be fine to put the trip scene shot on a not so decent camera? 

I am babbling...


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## MidEastGal (Jan 8, 2013)

Check out this A57 video on Vimeo! This looks quite amazing.  

[video=vimeo;40573835]http://vimeo.com/40573835[/video]


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## MidEastGal (Jan 8, 2013)

Ok to continue talking about the Sony Alpha A57, I will ask your opinion about the price range and teh lense available with a packagae at my local store:

- $650 for body and 18-55mm lens   
- $830 for body and 18-55mm lens, and 55-200mm f/4-5.6 SAM Telephoto zoom lens - SAL552002 

I checked ebay and there are lower bids but not used to buying expensive stuff from there and cannot afford to regret to save 100ish.  
Is the telephoto lens price reasonable and is it advisable to get them both Sony or shall I research lenses more before?


----------



## skyy38 (Jan 8, 2013)

MidEastGal said:


> sekhar said:
> 
> 
> > brunerww said:
> ...



A good start is here:

Looking for film look? Shoot like film! - Creative COW

The second thing to do is pick up a DVD of "Butch Cassidy And The Sundance Kid"-No tape copies in FullScreen. The late great Conrad Hall was a Jedi Master of Cinematography and this movie was his magnum opus. If you haven't seen it in awhile, go ahead and watch it for entertainment. THEN, the next time, watch it again with the volume OFF-This method is still used in film schools ( I hope ) so that students don't get distracted by sound, they're just concentrating on the visuals and how they're executed.

The third time you watch this, activate the commentary by the Director and Cinematographer of this movie. Some of which Mr. Hall says might seem strictly "filmic" but there is a LOT of good info that ANYONE can use, film or video. Almost forgot, do NOT miss the documentary because more cine knowledge is revealed there too.

Take your camera and your sticks out one nice Saturday and shoot anything and everything. Pretend like you're doing second unit for a big movie and shoot accordingly, keeping in mind what you saw in the movie. See if you can shoot some shots from the movie-replicating them as best you can in your own backyard. It is very good practice to do so, because it keeps your mind on the artistic side as well.


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## TehYoyo (Jan 8, 2013)

brunerww said:


> TehYoyo said:
> 
> 
> > You like low light... until you have to shoot handheld in it lol.
> ...



No I was just saying that if we're gonna discuss real low-light performance, that's what she should look at... which is why I stuck in "which you won't with $800".


MidEastGal said:


> Ok to continue talking about the Sony Alpha A57, I will ask your opinion about the price range and teh lense available with a packagae at my local store:
> 
> - $650 for body and 18-55mm lens
> - $830 for body and 18-55mm lens, and 55-200mm f/4-5.6 SAM Telephoto zoom lens - SAL552002
> ...



That's pretty reasonable and expected for whatever brand you get (price-wise).  As for whether or not you should get it, I wouldn't recommend it, at least not for this immediate trip (good luck, by the way).  If you're doing a documentary-style about a surgery, I can't imagine you using more than a 55mm focal length, even if you're setting up the scene with surveying shots.  However, if you think you'll be needing the telephoto length, then that's a fine beginner lens for you to get.

Side note, for lenses, I'd recommend buying them off Craiglist (it's site where you can meet people to buy/sell things - link for more.  A lot of times, people post lenses for cheap b/c they don't know what they are - they found them, they got them from their grandpa, etc. etc. etc.  I don't know what Canada has in that way.  Also, garage sales (in the summer, if you don't mind waiting) offer similar bargains/steals.  That's how I got my first two lenses (two for $50) for cheap.  One of them is pretty standard in terms of quality, but the other is pleasantly sharp.

As for what camera you should use to record the trip, you can certainly use the Canon or iPhone but I guarantee that neither will come remotely close to the quality of a full-on DSLR/DSLM in 1080p.


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## skyy38 (Jan 8, 2013)

MidEastGal said:


> Brunerww, Thank you for such an informative reply especially with the comparison. I am amazed taht the time I am going to buy a DSLR is the time when there is such a heated debate about them and DSLM (Mirrorless). I kind like to go against the main stream, but in this one I am still a bit afaraid to head to mirrorless. Seems to me I have to pass through the DSLR then switch after that. (seems silly) but I feel I want to catch up with the historical development and own a DSLR. Maybe in the future I will buy a second one as a DSLM and keep both. I will need a backup in all cases and one will produce better images; the other better video support (I guess). I am not sure yet but this is what came to my mind after reading today's answers I received from you guys and the other readings on websites and comparing features.
> 
> I still will need any useful tips if anybody remembers a new idea to share!   Still thinking. ...:er:
> 
> ...



Does this mean that the DBLT is not far off?


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## TehYoyo (Jan 8, 2013)

skyy38 said:


> Does this mean that the DBLT is not far off?


Digital WHAT? Lens Translucent?


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## skyy38 (Jan 9, 2013)

Very impressed by this:

'One more time' by Trent Crews - Filmed on a Panasonic GH2 in Panasonic GH2 on Vimeo

..but the *hacked* version...? Blown away......


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## MidEastGal (Jan 9, 2013)

Skyy38, Thank you for the tips. I like this Creative Cow magazine. Amazing techniques for filming. 
I wonder, are you in the field of filming? Do you use specific camera?  



skyy38 said:


> MidEastGal said:
> 
> 
> > sekhar said:
> ...


----------



## MidEastGal (Jan 9, 2013)

TehYoyo, Thank you. I understand what you meant; just was commenting. Thank you for the advice on the lens. I guess I will not need that one at all this trip or in near future. What I need is to start video taking and on the way will start collecting lenses as I need them for other effects. I have a question for you; other than the long length of the mirrorless, is there anything that can be done in mirrorless that a DSLR/T cannot do? Like these amazing videos shared below. I am seeing more and more professionals turning to the mirrorless. 



TehYoyo said:


> brunerww said:
> 
> 
> > TehYoyo said:
> ...


----------



## MidEastGal (Jan 9, 2013)

Skyy38, These are amazing! Do you use a GH2 yourself? I am again confused today between the both: Panasonic GH2 (DSLM) and Sony A57 (DSLR/T)! I thought yesterday that my mind is made up on the DSLR for now so that I take great stills too. 



skyy38 said:


> Very impressed by this:
> 
> 'One more time' by Trent Crews - Filmed on a Panasonic GH2 in Panasonic GH2 on Vimeo
> 
> ..but the *hacked* version...? Blown away......


----------



## skyy38 (Jan 9, 2013)

TehYoyo said:


> skyy38 said:
> 
> 
> > Does this mean that the DBLT is not far off?
> ...



No, Digital Bacon, Lettuce and Tomato!   (bad joke, I know)


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## brunerww (Jan 9, 2013)

MidEastGal said:


> ...I am again confused today between the both: Panasonic GH2 (DSLM) and Sony A57 (DSLR/T)! I thought yesterday that my mind is made up on the DSLR for now so that I take great stills too...



The GH2 is a great camera for still photography as well as for video. My T2i was a great still camera too, but I didn't give anything up when I sold it.

Here are the stills others are shooting with the GH2:Flickr: The Panasonic GH2 group Pool

A couple of my personal GH2 stills:

"P3 Orion static display at NASA Ames Research Center", Olympus 11-22 lens:https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-q...9/P1100039.JPG

"Grand Slam", Tamron 70-300 (Nikon mount) lens: https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-K...9/P1080011.JPG

Sorry if we've confused you 

Best,

Bill


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## skyy38 (Jan 9, 2013)

MidEastGal said:


> Skyy38, Thank you for the tips. I like this Creative Cow magazine. Amazing techniques for filming.
> I wonder, are you in the field of filming? Do you use specific camera?
> 
> 
> ...



I'm in the field, I just don't get to pick as many ears of corn as I'd like to, if you take my meaning. I've shot a few things here and there (none of it scripted)
and, according to most people, I'm no "master" at this, but I do strive to get what I want, as best as I can.

Right now, I'm figuring out this cool little camera I got for Christmas-The Fuji Finepix HS 30-Man, for a so-called "bridge camera" it is *deep*. I tried looking up some footage for this, but the closest I came to what I liked is this, from the HS 20:






Yeah, it's no GH2, but I am impressed nonetheless that footage like the above (1920 x 1080p) came from a "bridger". It doesn't take all that much to make me happy, just as long as I'm adhering to the standards I've set for myself. I love photography a lot, because it allows me to indulge in my "cinematic ways" without having a crew around me, the point being is that I frame and shoot stills like I would for a movie (Link in next message)



Everyone else goes on and on about how they NEED the "Red" camera. Till then, I think they should look seriously into the GH2...


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## skyy38 (Jan 9, 2013)

Second link:


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## MidEastGal (Jan 9, 2013)

Brunerww, Not at all. You don't have to apologize. Confusion is good. The entire field is. I guess I will learn better this way. I checked the images they are really good. Actually some too good. The point is that I think it is also th eperson who is shooting and the light and lenses. I seen bad and good ones for the SOny A57. Confusion is still there. You know what it seems that in my mind I feel too afraid to try a non-DSLR because I suffered with the canon I bought 2 years ago before knowing much about cameras and it was a total bust for over $400. It's like I want to try what is the considered the safest in the market in "common" sense. yet, I know that the GH2 is good for video. But what is the most important thing that a GH2 can do in video that a Sony cannot? I am trying to find this out. There is the limitless long recording in GH2 which I don't need at all in documentaries. There is AF in Sony. Some say clarity is better in GH2 but there is more film-quality in dslr (just read it not sure at all of this info). Downside to SOny A57 (again not sure) is the flash light attachment piece. Seems it is compatible only with Sony products(?) This is where also some microphones are attached up. So hard to choose and I want to start working on actual learning and filimng rather than shopping and comparing soon  



brunerww said:


> MidEastGal said:
> 
> 
> > ...I am again confused today between the both: Panasonic GH2 (DSLM) and Sony A57 (DSLR/T)! I thought yesterday that my mind is made up on the DSLR for now so that I take great stills too...
> ...


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## MidEastGal (Jan 9, 2013)

Skyy38, Nice photos. Thanks for sharing. I am trying to get into having accounts online to display my photos too. 
I see your point about aspiring to have the best cameras. I was just thinking I want to start hands-on rather than waste time comparing, but it is a step I had to go through. I hope I finish quick. 



skyy38 said:


> MidEastGal said:
> 
> 
> > Skyy38, Thank you for the tips. I like this Creative Cow magazine. Amazing techniques for filming.
> ...


----------



## TehYoyo (Jan 9, 2013)

MidEastGal said:


> TehYoyo, Thank you. I understand what you meant; just was commenting. Thank you for the advice on the lens. I guess I will not need that one at all this trip or in near future. What I need is to start video taking and on the way will start collecting lenses as I need them for other effects. I have a question for you; other than the long length of the mirrorless, is there anything that can be done in mirrorless that a DSLR/T cannot do? Like these amazing videos shared below. I am seeing more and more professionals turning to the mirrorless.



As far as I know, there's nothing that can be done on mirrorless that a DSLT cannot do.  Those amazing videos shared below could be done, and possible better, on any DSLR (with the same specs) just as easily.  As to professionals turning to mirrorless, I don't know any professional turning to mirrorless _for quality_.  Let me state this loud and clear *mirrorless technology, at this point, has no advantage over any standard DSLR/SLT*.  Really the only argument is (slightly) lower cost and portability.  If you want the best performance, you need to get a full-size DSLR.

MidEastGal - I'm swamped with work for finals.  Maybe this Friday, when work is not an absolute necessity, I'll put together a compilation of videos that are at least equal to what you've seen of the GH2.  The thing about performance at that high a level is that you have to look closely at color depth, smoothness of motion, etc. to see a big difference.


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## brunerww (Jan 10, 2013)

MidEastGal said:


> ...what is the most important thing that a GH2 can do in video that a Sony cannot? I am trying to find this out. There is the limitless long recording in GH2 which I don't need at all in documentaries. There is AF in Sony. Some say clarity is better in GH2 but there is more film-quality in dslr (just read it not sure at all of this info). Downside to Sony A57 (again not sure) is the flash light attachment piece. Seems it is compatible only with Sony products(?) This is where also some microphones are attached up. So hard to choose and I want to start working on actual learning and filimng rather than shopping and comparing soon



Outside of unlimited clip length, the two most important GH2 competitive advantages over the A57 (video only) are:

- the GH2 is far less susceptible to shot-ruining moire.

- Panasonic video optimized lenses have *extremely* quiet autofocus motors (especially the 14-42 and 14-140 kit lenses), unlike Sony Alpha lenses.

Please listen to this:


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## brunerww (Jan 10, 2013)

...and compare it to this:


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## MidEastGal (Jan 10, 2013)

TehYoyo, Thank you so much for teh assurance. Also, I wish you the best in your exams and looking forward to that compilation about the DSLR/SLT! 



TehYoyo said:


> MidEastGal said:
> 
> 
> > TehYoyo, Thank you. I understand what you meant; just was commenting. Thank you for the advice on the lens. I guess I will not need that one at all this trip or in near future. What I need is to start video taking and on the way will start collecting lenses as I need them for other effects. I have a question for you; other than the long length of the mirrorless, is there anything that can be done in mirrorless that a DSLR/T cannot do? Like these amazing videos shared below. I am seeing more and more professionals turning to the mirrorless.
> ...


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## MidEastGal (Jan 10, 2013)

Brunerww, Thank you. This is a very informative summary answering exactly what I asked. As a reflection over these differences, the length is not very important to me as an asopiring documentarian. Most clips are under 15 m. As to noise, this is annoying, but I will very rarely use camera mic. People will have wireless clip while interviwewing them and no zoom during interviews. I still have to look into this noise issue, though. 

This being said, I admit the GH2 is nice to own but I think I will go with the more common choice for now for stills AND videos. 



brunerww said:


> MidEastGal said:
> 
> 
> > ...what is the most important thing that a GH2 can do in video that a Sony cannot? I am trying to find this out. There is the limitless long recording in GH2 which I don't need at all in documentaries. There is AF in Sony. Some say clarity is better in GH2 but there is more film-quality in dslr (just read it not sure at all of this info). Downside to Sony A57 (again not sure) is the flash light attachment piece. Seems it is compatible only with Sony products(?) This is where also some microphones are attached up. So hard to choose and I want to start working on actual learning and filimng rather than shopping and comparing soon
> ...


----------



## MidEastGal (Jan 10, 2013)

Guys, I decided if I don't start hands-on trying out, I'll never buy a camera. SO as I am flying on my trip tonight, I went last night and bought the Sony A57 from the local store for $649 plus taxes. I also bought a 16 GB 133X SDHC memory card, a lense protection UV filter, and a very neat backpack with compartments for wires and future lenses that I will collect on the way as need and sales arise. All was $878 (under $1000). Return policy allows me to return it in 15 days in same selling good condition. So i will give it a try.  

Some points I am concerned about are (1) the zoom noise recorded, (2) the attachment hook up (lock shoe); it supports only Sony flash and gear but I heard there is a lock shoe adoptor. I'll look into this. Edited to add: I also read it supports wireless flash but still I will need at one point to hook things up that are not sony. Edited to add: (3) Here is another concern I read: "Sony's biggest problem, in my opinion is that someone who has thousands of dollars in glass for a another brand is not going to be quick to jump ship. From what I know, you can get adaptors, but, you lose the AF features when you do." (4) Cannot take stills while shooting video (which I almost never used). (5) Not sure, but it might not support other makes of lenses except using an adopter. This is fine with me as I still don't have lenses but the downside is I loose the beautiful continuous movie AF. Again, might not need in documentaries. If I did I could revert to sony lense.   

I will appreciate if anyone has tips regarding the zoom noise or any of what I mentioned. I will probably not use zoom in documentary with original sound but just to know and discuss these issues. I am sure with any camera I will find certain problems. According to my budget this one is really good.  


Today I am experimenting unpacking and with the camera. I feel comfortable so far. Discussion is still open, though, as I might exchange it within 15 days  You never know.


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## MidEastGal (Jan 10, 2013)

I am looking up at my previous post. The list of concerns got longer! I am trying the camera and if I could not live with these things I will go and exchange it. Your input will help me once and for all. Meanwhile I came across these 2 websites, the first comparing them: 

Sony A57 or Panasonic GH2 ? : DSLR Video 

and the other about professional making film with GH2:

LUMIX G Professional Movie | LUMIX | Digital Camera | Panasonic Global 

I am going to the aurport now. Will be looking forward to check here once I have access to Internet again. See ya all!


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## TehYoyo (Jan 10, 2013)

brunerww said:


> MidEastGal said:
> 
> 
> > ...what is the most important thing that a GH2 can do in video that a Sony cannot? I am trying to find this out. There is the limitless long recording in GH2 which I don't need at all in documentaries. There is AF in Sony. Some say clarity is better in GH2 but there is more film-quality in dslr (just read it not sure at all of this info). Downside to Sony A57 (again not sure) is the flash light attachment piece. Seems it is compatible only with Sony products(?) This is where also some microphones are attached up. So hard to choose and I want to start working on actual learning and filimng rather than shopping and comparing soon
> ...



I don't know where you're finding evidence of the moire problem.  Could you please post where you found that particular conclusion?

Also, the autofocus noise doesn't come from the camera body - it comes from the _lens_.  Maybe it's different on mirrorless cameras like the Panasonic, but with Sony, and every other DSLR brand I can think of, the autofocus motor (and its quality) comes from what lens you use.  With Canon, silent autofocus is denoted by a USM in the name.  With Nikon, SWM or AF-S. With Pentax, DC or SDM.  With Sony, SSM.

*If you buy a SSM lens for your Sony A57, you won't hear a sound.*  The video that you posted was obviously shot with a low-quality or cheap lens.


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## rexbobcat (Jan 10, 2013)

TehYoyo said:
			
		

> I don't know where you're finding evidence of the moire problem.  Could you please post where you found that particular conclusion?
> 
> Also, the autofocus noise doesn't come from the camera body - it comes from the lens.  Maybe it's different on mirrorless cameras like the Panasonic, but with Sony, and every other DSLR brand I can think of, the autofocus motor (and its quality) comes from what lens you use.  With Canon, silent autofocus is denoted by a USM in the name.  With Nikon, SWM or AF-S. With Pentax, DC or SDM.  With Sony, SSM.
> 
> If you buy a SSM lens for your Sony A57, you won't hear a sound.  The video that you posted was obviously shot with a low-quality or cheap lens.



Just Google the moire performance of the GH2/3. It's some of the best moire "suppression" of its kind as well as many DSLRs.

Almost all DSLRs have moire problems because they don't truly downsample the video. They line skip causing detail to basically fade in and out of existence. 

The exception is now the 5D3 and 1DX because they really do downsample the video.


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## brunerww (Jan 12, 2013)

TehYoyo said:


> I don't know where you're finding evidence of the moire problem.  Could you please post where you found that particular conclusion?



Please see the shimmering moire on the roofs at 0:50, 1:00, 1:15, etc. in this A57 test:

[video=vimeo;43985463]https://vimeo.com/43985463[/video]


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## brunerww (Jan 12, 2013)

TehYoyo said:


> ...*If you buy a SSM lens for your Sony A57, you won't hear a sound.*  The video that you posted was obviously shot with a low-quality or cheap lens.



Test of Sony SAL1650 f2.8 SSM lens - you can hear the AF motor, even outdoors:






Please contrast this with the AF motor of the Panasonic 14-140 in the test I ran in my studio. Very quiet - even indoors.

You can get around this problem with Alpha lenses with an external mic - but the first step in dealing with it is to recognize that it exists.

The moire challenge is a little more difficult to work around (although it can be done),

Best,

Bill

P.S.  re-reading this, it sounds like I'm an A57 hater - I am not.  It is a fabulous camera and I recommend it often to still/video shooters who emphasize stills over video.


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## TehYoyo (Jan 13, 2013)

I guess I was wrong - I had never heard anything of those issues before.

The moire is particularly bad.


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## MidEastGal (Jan 14, 2013)

Hello there. I am back from my trip and took a number of videos and stills with the Sony. As I was not in all my health after the procedure I only tried the basic settings for now. I will share a couple maybe later today. I got to admit I liked it in general but I kind feel i hate that I cannot take still while videoing. I know in documentary might not need this but in a rare shoot of a fast event or appearance you want to capture both at same time. I like the panorama option in stills was nice for city line at sunset. 

I was checking these moire videos up. That does not look good. Yea. How bad is this in terms of controlling it?


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## MidEastGal (Jan 15, 2013)

It is so frusrating to work with HD video clips on my old laptop. I will son nee a higher capacty one. Just simy puttig the clips tgeer is taking forever!


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## TehYoyo (Jan 15, 2013)

MidEastGal said:


> Hello there. I am back from my trip and took a number of videos and stills with the Sony. As I was not in all my health after the procedure I only tried the basic settings for now. I will share a couple maybe later today. I got to admit I liked it in general but I kind feel i hate that I cannot take still while videoing. I know in documentary might not need this but in a rare shoot of a fast event or appearance you want to capture both at same time. I like the panorama option in stills was nice for city line at sunset.
> 
> I was checking these moire videos up. That does not look good. Yea. How bad is this in terms of controlling it?



I don't know how many times you'll need to take a still during a video... also, it disrupts your video.


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## brunerww (Jan 15, 2013)

Hi MidEastGal - look forward to seeing your first video! Not to beat a dead horse, but in Motion Picture Priority mode, the GH2 can capture 2MP stills whole recording video (with no interruption).

In Still Picture Priority mode,it captures 14MP stills while recording video (with a brief interruption).

Hope your procedure went well and that you feel better soon.

Bill

Here is the reference: DMC-GH2 | PRODUCTS | LUMIX | Digital Camera | Panasonic Global


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## TehYoyo (Jan 16, 2013)

brunerww said:


> Hi MidEastGal - look forward to seeing your first video! Not to beat a dead horse, but in Motion Picture Priority mode, the GH2 can capture 2MP stills whole recording video (with no interruption).
> 
> In Still Picture Priority mode,it captures 14MP stills while recording video (with a brief interruption).
> 
> ...



So I assume that the GH2 is just taking a single frame, hence the 2MP size, yes? (1920*1080 = about 2MP)


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## brunerww (Jan 16, 2013)

That is correct. Good enough to pull a freeze frame to post online or attach to an email, but not something you would print and hang up on a wall


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## sekhar (Jan 16, 2013)

TehYoyo said:


> So I assume that the GH2 is just taking a single frame, hence the 2MP size, yes? (1920*1080 = about 2MP)


Well, you can grab a frame from any video.


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## TehYoyo (Jan 16, 2013)

sekhar said:


> TehYoyo said:
> 
> 
> > So I assume that the GH2 is just taking a single frame, hence the 2MP size, yes? (1920*1080 = about 2MP)
> ...


Right, so the GH2 is just doing that in-camera.


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## MidEastGal (Jan 17, 2013)

Ok, here is a link to the A57 video below. I just created this account for tests and it is private for public search. Here is the temporary password: Tests1984. The reason is that I don't think I did a fair test and I don't want people to judge camera is good or bad based on this. for you guys I can explain. First, I used only "auto settings", so lazy! Second, I was with a surgery wound (which went very well, thanks for the wishes up). Third, some of the shoots in the ocean are from behind the dirty glass of the sea bus and some night shoots are with high zoom and still not even night mode, and night scene of homeless by "male essentials" is from behind my hotel window glass with zoom-bad quality but nice moments). Fourth, I didn't include native audio or auto focus moments! I am kind of embarrassed from this video but anyways, could have been worse if I didn't try it at all after surgery. My thoughts briefly, I like the camera, has nice quality for color and low light, still and video. I didn't get to experiment a lot with settings. I liked the panorama (photo at beginning of video is an example). There are things I didn't like that I mentioned before: noise when zooming, not taking still while video, not compatible with flash lights or mics on upper shoe (will need adopter piece), not compatible with many common lenses (will need adopter), audio is not great (but same with many other cameras), and no touch screen (nicer to have the option). I will not comment further and wait your comments first. Mind you, I am still thinking whether I return it and exchange with the GH2 or not. Discussion is still on  Video:
 [video=vimeo;57621487]https://vimeo.com/57621487[/video] 
(again, not a very honest reflection of the camera at all but did the job for me of trying the feel of it and am still trying it).


----------



## MidEastGal (Jan 17, 2013)

Question: Is $1200 a reasonable price for the GH2 body and 14-140 lens? (just asking to prepare for all my options)


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## brunerww (Jan 18, 2013)

MidEastGal said:


> Question: Is $1200 a reasonable price for the GH2 body and 14-140 lens? (just asking to prepare for all my options)



That's about right - and about $300 less than I paid for a new one from The Camera Store in Calgary 2 years ago.  They don't depreciate very much.

Good luck!

Bill


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## brunerww (Jan 18, 2013)

MidEastGal said:


> Ok, here is a link to the A57 video below. I just created this account for tests and it is private for public search. Here is the temporary password: Tests1984. The reason is that I don't think I did a fair test and I don't want people to judge camera is good or bad based on this. for you guys I can explain. First, I used only "auto settings", so lazy! Second, I was with a surgery wound (which went very well, thanks for the wishes up). Third, some of the shoots in the ocean are from behind the dirty glass of the sea bus and some night shoots are with high zoom and still not even night mode, and night scene of homeless by "male essentials" is from behind my hotel window glass with zoom-bad quality but nice moments). Fourth, I didn't include native audio or auto focus moments! I am kind of embarrassed from this video but anyways, could have been worse if I didn't try it at all after surgery. My thoughts briefly, I like the camera, has nice quality for color and low light, still and video. I didn't get to experiment a lot with settings. I liked the panorama (photo at beginning of video is an example). There are things I didn't like that I mentioned before: noise when zooming, not taking still while video, not compatible with flash lights or mics on upper shoe (will need adopter piece), not compatible with many common lenses (will need adopter), audio is not great (but same with many other cameras), and no touch screen (nicer to have the option). I will not comment further and wait your comments first. Mind you, I am still thinking whether I return it and exchange with the GH2 or not. Discussion is still on  Video:
> 
> (again, not a very honest reflection of the camera at all but did the job for me of trying the feel of it and am still trying it).



Great travel piece - some very interesting, artistic shots - nice music and a fast paced edit.  Makes me want to visit BC!  You're right - auto modes are not fair to any camera -  but I liked the quality of most of the images - especially the shots of the food and vegetables - very nice Sony color.  And the panoramic stills are very very cool.

But there was aliasing too (power lines above the buses at 0:35).  That wan't your shooting style or the auto mode - that was the camera's downscaling process.

I would have no problem shooting video with this camera, and people have produced some great work with it.  Only you can decide whether you can live with its limitations (no standard cold shoe, no touch screen, etc.).

All the best,

Bill


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## MidEastGal (Jan 18, 2013)

brunerww said:


> MidEastGal said:
> 
> 
> > Question: Is $1200 a reasonable price for the GH2 body and 14-140 lens? (just asking to prepare for all my options)
> ...



Thanks Brunerww. I think it is a good price, yes. I just checked amazon [video]http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-DMC-GH2KK-Interchangeable-Free-Angle-Black/dp/B0043VE27Y[/video] and it is around 1400 for body and same lens (14-140), but they have the option of getting it with the 14-42 for about 700. At my local store they only have it with the 14-140 at $1200, around 200 cheaper than amazon.


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## MidEastGal (Jan 18, 2013)

brunerww said:


> MidEastGal said:
> 
> 
> > Ok, here is a link to the A57 video below. I just created this account for tests and it is private for public search. Here is the temporary password: Tests1984. The reason is that I don't think I did a fair test and I don't want people to judge camera is good or bad based on this. for you guys I can explain. First, I used only "auto settings", so lazy! Second, I was with a surgery wound (which went very well, thanks for the wishes up). Third, some of the shoots in the ocean are from behind the dirty glass of the sea bus and some night shoots are with high zoom and still not even night mode, and night scene of homeless by "male essentials" is from behind my hotel window glass with zoom-bad quality but nice moments). Fourth, I didn't include native audio or auto focus moments! I am kind of embarrassed from this video but anyways, could have been worse if I didn't try it at all after surgery. My thoughts briefly, I like the camera, has nice quality for color and low light, still and video. I didn't get to experiment a lot with settings. I liked the panorama (photo at beginning of video is an example). There are things I didn't like that I mentioned before: noise when zooming, not taking still while video, not compatible with flash lights or mics on upper shoe (will need adopter piece), not compatible with many common lenses (will need adopter), audio is not great (but same with many other cameras), and no touch screen (nicer to have the option). I will not comment further and wait your comments first. Mind you, I am still thinking whether I return it and exchange with the GH2 or not. Discussion is still on  Video:
> ...



Brunnerww, thank you for the detailed reply. I appreciate your balanced commentary. This will help me make a decision very soon to keep it or replace it. I am viewing more videos online done in both cameras and I have to admit people did do amazing things with both. As you said I have to decide whether I can live with the limitations I mentioned.


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## sekhar (Jan 18, 2013)

MidEastGal said:


> Brunnerww, thank you for the detailed reply. I appreciate your balanced commentary. This will help me make a decision very soon to keep it or replace it. I am viewing more videos online done in both cameras and I have to admit people did do amazing things with both. As you said I have to decide whether I can live with the limitations I mentioned.


You had a lot of night shots (which looked good, IMO). If that's going to be the norm, make especially sure GH2 can handle night well enough.


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## MidEastGal (Jan 18, 2013)

sekhar said:


> MidEastGal said:
> 
> 
> > Brunnerww, thank you for the detailed reply. I appreciate your balanced commentary. This will help me make a decision very soon to keep it or replace it. I am viewing more videos online done in both cameras and I have to admit people did do amazing things with both. As you said I have to decide whether I can live with the limitations I mentioned.
> ...



Sekhar, Thank you so much for raising this point. I have no clue about the GH2's ability for night shoots. I will have to look into this before doing anything. I do like night but I will be using my future camera equally for day and night. I particularly liked the filming of the homeless and drunken and drug exchanges in allies at night (not all included in this video). My hotel room had a _view_. Anyone knows about this point with the GH2?


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## brunerww (Jan 18, 2013)

MidEastGal said:


> sekhar said:
> 
> 
> > MidEastGal said:
> ...



With a fast lens, you can get very good results.

Andrew Reid of eoshd.com shot this with the Olympus 12mm f2:

[video=vimeo;32520456]http://vimeo.com/32520456[/video]


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## brunerww (Jan 18, 2013)

With the ultrafast (and ultraexpensive ) Nokton 25mm f0.95 at ISO160:

[video=vimeo;17294099]http://vimeo.com/17294099[/video]


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## MidEastGal (Jan 18, 2013)

brunerww said:


> MidEastGal said:
> 
> 
> > sekhar said:
> ...



Thanks Brunnerww, these were amazing! What about on the lens 14-140 in camera settings. I mean not the so fast lenses? I just want to know is it at least not problematic?


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## brunerww (Jan 18, 2013)

MidEastGal said:


> Thanks Brunnerww, these were amazing! What about on the lens 14-140 in camera settings. I mean not the so fast lenses? I just want to know is it at least not problematic?



It can be done.  This was shot at dusk with the 14-140, ISO1600 (the stock camera does not perform well above ISO1600):

[video=vimeo;17852769]http://vimeo.com/17852769[/video]


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## MidEastGal (Jan 18, 2013)

Brunnerww, this looks good. I checked his other videos. He is experimenting with the GH2 but still thinks a dedicated camcorder is easier to use. Naturally. I just thought what he says in the commentary here is interesting: 
[video=vimeo;17732726]https://vimeo.com/17732726[/video]. 
Of course, in the future I will/might need a dedicated pro camcorder.


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## skyy38 (Jan 19, 2013)

brunerww said:


> MidEastGal said:
> 
> 
> > sekhar said:
> ...



WOW! Superior detail, everything balanced, color saturation etc! I mean WOW!

What camera did you shoot this with? Was this 720, 1080, or 1980p?

Was the lens JUST a 12mm or did it have a nice zoom ratio? I noticed the blurry background but maybe that was because you had your aperture wide open, which also blurs the background? Nice foreground blur at the start too.

"Bladerunner" music also appreciated!


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## brunerww (Jan 19, 2013)

skyy38 said:


> brunerww said:
> 
> 
> > MidEastGal said:
> ...



Hi Skyy - To be clear, I wish I shot this, but I didn't. Andrew Reid the well-known blogger over at eoshd.com is the auteur. That said, to answer your questions, the Olympus 12mm is a fixed 12mm prime lens for micro 4/3 cameras, such as the Panasonic GH2 and GH3. This was shot at 1080p and 44mbps with a free 3rd party firmware upgrade of the GH2.

Here is Andrew's blog post on the shoot: Tokyo test footage ? attempting a Ridley Scott with the hacked GH2 and Olympus 12mm F2 | EOSHD.com

Cheers,

Bill


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## TehYoyo (Jan 19, 2013)

I think it's unfair to say that the Sony A57 is incompatible with many common lenses - Nikon lenses don't fit Canon bodies (without an adapter), Canon lenses don't fit Nikon bodies (without an adapter), and neither of them fit Sony bodies (without an adapter).  And vice versa.


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## skyy38 (Jan 20, 2013)

brunerww said:


> skyy38 said:
> 
> 
> > brunerww said:
> ...




"Attempting a RIDLEY SCOTT"...well there HAD to be a reason for the music use, at any rate.....

Ridley directed BLADE RUNNER......

I just love how stuff fits together!


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## MidEastGal (Jan 20, 2013)

TehYoyo said:


> I think it's unfair to say that the Sony A57 is incompatible with many common lenses - Nikon lenses don't fit Canon bodies (without an adapter), Canon lenses don't fit Nikon bodies (without an adapter), and neither of them fit Sony bodies (without an adapter).  And vice versa.



TehYoyo, you are right. I actually was not very sure about the lenses point because I only read it somewhere online and did not really research how much (if at all) it is different from the other cameras incompatibilities. I read more about it and it seems this is not so different from others. But as to my other concerns like the length of the video and the moire, I think there is some validity there. It is a neat camera in general I have to say.


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## MidEastGal (Jan 20, 2013)

In spite of my liking the Sony A57 and it's great colors and features, I am seriously thinking of exchanging it for the gh2 mainly for the reason I will be using it mostly for video and that is where the latter one excels and for the limitations I mentioned above. Hard decision.   but feels right.


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## skyy38 (Jan 21, 2013)

TehYoyo said:


> MidEastGal said:
> 
> 
> > Hello there. I am back from my trip and took a number of videos and stills with the Sony. As I was not in all my health after the procedure I only tried the basic settings for now. I will share a couple maybe later today. I got to admit I liked it in general but I kind feel i hate that I cannot take still while videoing. I know in documentary might not need this but in a rare shoot of a fast event or appearance you want to capture both at same time. I like the panorama option in stills was nice for city line at sunset.
> ...



YoYo is right-you can always "grab" a frame in editorial.....concentrate on your *video*...


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## skyy38 (Jan 21, 2013)

MidEastGal said:


> It is so frusrating to work with HD video clips on my old laptop. I will son nee a higher capacty one. Just simy puttig the clips tgeer is taking forever!



Get a NEW laptop! They are sooo inexpensive and you need a computer that can keep up with your work..


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## MidEastGal (Jan 21, 2013)

TehYoyo said:


> MidEastGal said:
> 
> 
> > Hello there. I am back from my trip and took a number of videos and stills with the Sony. As I was not in all my health after the procedure I only tried the basic settings for now. I will share a couple maybe later today. I got to admit I liked it in general but I kind feel i hate that I cannot take still while videoing. I know in documentary might not need this but in a rare shoot of a fast event or appearance you want to capture both at same time. I like the panorama option in stills was nice for city line at sunset.
> ...



TehYoyo, I missed this message before. Yes it could interrupt the video. I will only use it if the shot was kind of rare like spoting of wild animal and in family videos only. I love to camp and hike. So it is kind of nice to have the option of a still during video just for teh fun of it and definately not in professional or semi professional videos where I can grab a still in post, of course.


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## MidEastGal (Jan 21, 2013)

skyy38 said:


> MidEastGal said:
> 
> 
> > It is so frusrating to work with HD video clips on my old laptop. I will son nee a higher capacty one. Just simy puttig the clips tgeer is taking forever!
> ...



Sky38, thanks for the note on videos and stills which you reminded me i didn't reply to from TehYoyo . I agree but just like to have teh option there and this is not at all the main reason for my desire to exchange the Sony for the GH2.  

Laptop, aha, yes. Mind you, mine is not that old but I used it so much that it is almost sounding like it's couhjing and teh fan is so loud. It's an HP Pavilio with Win7. I am looking at saving up and getting a Mac. Big shift and thus I need to make sure I want that and I can also afford the higher capacity one, not the small one.


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## MidEastGal (Jan 22, 2013)

Last night, I (sadly but confidently) returned the Sony A57 and drove an hour to grab the last piece in my local store other branch of the GH2 as it's cheaper than the online prices I seen so far. It is a GH2H. I think the H at the end refers to the kit which means in this case the 14-140 lens. (?) Today will open it and try it out!!


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## MidEastGal (Jan 22, 2013)

Brunnerww, I need your help. What does the GH2 battery that came with your GH2 say? Does it say "Lumix Panasonic Battery Pack Model No. DMW-BLC12PP"? I checked online the original ones I seen say the same except at the end "E" not "PP"! The reason I am asking is that when I unboxed my camera, it was missing the battery and they just sent me one in courier. They were good enought to send it in 2 hours of my complain as I cannot do the drive again to their branch. Now the new battery was in a small black lumix box. There is nothing suspicious about the pack except that it did come in a professional box. I felt it might be not the oroginal, like those backup ones sold separately. Does this call for worry? Should I call them and inquire further? Also, is there a way to double check if the store did not sell me a floor model? The main branch said they have only floor models and that far branch is the only one that has a new boxed one and this is why I went to them. I am only getting paranoid now.

Added: I should add, besides my suspision regarding the battery, th elook of everything else is perfect. the camera is in its original clean slate settings and packing, actually. 

I also found this after posting my question: 

Customer Image Gallery for Panasonic DMW-BLC12 Lithium-Ion Battery for Panasonic Lumix® 

What should I do?

Edited to add: Oops! I read the battery page in the manual now. It says "The battery that can be used with this unit is DMW-BLC12PP... The dedicated battery (DMW-BLC12PP) supports this function etc....". So I guess I should be fine with this one. Strange that link I pasted up here that says the "E" one is teh original and the "PP" one is teh one sold on Amazon. Maybe with my model/lens pack it is different or that's false info (?)


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## brunerww (Jan 22, 2013)

Not to worry, the battery that came with my brand new camera from a Canadian store was the DMW-BLC12PP. The spare battery I bought from Robert White in the UK (because I couldn't find one in North America) was a DMW-BLC12E. Both batteries work perfectly in my camera.

Congratulations on the new camera!

Bill


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## MidEastGal (Jan 22, 2013)

brunerww said:


> Not to worry, the battery that came with my brand new camera from a Canadian store was the DMW-BLC12PP. The spare battery I bought from Robert White in the UK (because I couldn't find one in North America) was a DMW-BLC12E. Both batteries work perfectly in my camera.
> 
> Congratulations on the new camera!
> 
> Bill



Oh thank you. This makes me more confident. The brochure and you  You know I should just now shut up and shoot. Lol


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## MidEastGal (Jan 23, 2013)

I started experimenting with the gh2, I have to say I have a lot to read and explore. It is different and the terminology is different. I still cannot say my impression except that I like the small size. With the Sony I knew immidiately it is so nice to use and all but the issue was with video. Now I can't say yet the same about this one due to my lack of knowledge. I don't think it is as much user friendly as the Sony. Probablt once I know things will be better. One thing I noticed though the still has a very loud noise. Am I missing something? It also shakes when I click to take the photo. Is that the norm in the GH2?


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## brunerww (Jan 23, 2013)

There is no mirror noise, but the primary shutter is mechanical, not electronic like the GH3's.

The GH2 does use a silent electronic shutter in the 40fps low resolution burst mode, but, sadly, you cannot silence the standard mechanical shutter that it uses for high resolution stills. It should *not* shake, though...


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## MidEastGal (Jan 23, 2013)

Brunnerww, thank you. I see. I was actually reading in the morning about the GH3 and GH2 comparison and this came up but I didn't realize what it was until I tried to use it and now you mentioning it. It sounded kind of cool like old style cameras but after I thought this is loud and I cannot be invisible in certain situations. I am not sure if I can live with this or not yet. The shake is not exactly body shake; it is the mechanical movement of the shutter that causes it every time I snap a a still. I am finding this so annoying. Will read about it.


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## MidEastGal (Jan 23, 2013)

I submitted a separate thread to get tips on starting to use the GH2. I am in desperate need of help right now and would love to hear from actual users about their experiences with it first hand.


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## MidEastGal (Jan 24, 2013)

Thank you all who helped me in this thread while choosing a camera. Hope to still keep in touch on this forum.


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