# Editing Help for NOOB



## haleypapa (Aug 3, 2012)

okay guys so i am new to this forum and i consider myself a very average photographer with good knowledge in shutter/iso and aperture. However I do not posses proper skills in editing. I am not asking for direct help here but all i really want is for someone with good editing skills to edit my picture so i can really see how best it can come out. I will then try on my own to do such in the best way i can. My picture is raw but i do not know how to post raw images on this forum so i will post a jpeg and i can email the raw i guess if anyone chooses to assist. so here goes

Shutter - 30.0sec
Aperture - f4.5
ISO - 1250
Body - canon MKii 5D
Glass - EF 16-35 f/2.8 ii USM
Flash - 58EXii

Picture was shot in complete darkness using second curtain sync ETTLii


----------



## MLeeK (Aug 3, 2012)

You can upload the raw to a mediafire (free) account and post the link for us to download. What are you wanting to achieve in editing? Tell us what you envision here.


----------



## haleypapa (Aug 3, 2012)

thank you for your response.. here is the link IMG_0054.CR2

i was thinking if it would have been possible to get it like this image IMG_0063-2.jpg

lol @ image.. its my wife and yes she will kill me!!!!!...note that we were just dicking around with the cam..we were really just trying to get the light to make the sk design...that was pretty kool but the image quality is very poor...


----------



## MLeeK (Aug 3, 2012)

There really isn't much difference in the two images. The second one is better exposed and a bit more contrasty, that's about it. What are you using to edit?


----------



## MLeeK (Aug 3, 2012)

This is adobe camera raw CS6 only.  
Increased exposure +.65
reduced highlights -20
increased shadows +20
whites -5
Clarity +10
There was a TON of noise in it so I cranked up both the luminant noise removal and the color to +35
Sharpening I left at your default.
The Parametric curve 
+10
+22
+19
-5
The point curve I set to medium contrast.
That's it.


----------



## haleypapa (Aug 3, 2012)

Wow. That came out really well. I wished I composed it better.....  I use Lightroom 3.4     I will do the best I can and post it up. I just wanted to see how best it can look so I won't have to settle with a lame image that I think is awesome. Thank you for all of your time. I do appreciate it


----------



## MTVision (Aug 3, 2012)

haleypapa said:
			
		

> Wow. That came out really well. I wished I composed it better.....  I use Lightroom 3.4     I will do the best I can and post it up. I just wanted to see how best it can look so I won't have to settle with a lame image that I think is awesome. Thank you for all of your time. I do appreciate it



Lightrooms develop module and photoshops adobe camera raw are basically the same thing so you should be able to do all the things MLeek did


----------



## MLeeK (Aug 3, 2012)

haleypapa said:


> Wow. That came out really well. I wished I composed it better.....  I use Lightroom 3.4     I will do the best I can and post it up. I just wanted to see how best it can look so I won't have to settle with a lame image that I think is awesome. Thank you for all of your time. I do appreciate it



Just use the same settings I gave you in LR. It's the same engine, just a different hood.


----------



## haleypapa (Aug 3, 2012)

anything above iso1000 on my mkii produces tons of noise..pretty lame. have a look at this image fro another photographer.. how u assume they got this shot

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...77895869.72691.179731785395790&type=1&theater


----------



## MLeeK (Aug 3, 2012)

You need to learn to expose properly. The 5d2 is totally useable through it's highest ISO's if you expose the image properly or slightly over exposed. If you underexpose in the slightest it's going to be garbage. The second you increase exposure in post it increases noise. Combine proper exposure with the amazing noise removal in Adobe Camera Raw or Lightroom and you can use your camera all of the way to it's max.


----------



## MLeeK (Aug 3, 2012)

haleypapa said:


> anything above iso1000 on my mkii produces tons of noise..pretty lame. have a look at this image fro another photographer.. how u assume they got this shot
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...77895869.72691.179731785395790&type=1&theater


That's flash plain and simple. Looks to be maybe snooted to prevent it from lighting up the whole scene.


----------



## haleypapa (Aug 3, 2012)

MLeeK said:
			
		

> You need to learn to expose properly. The 5d2 is totally useable through it's highest ISO's if you expose the image properly or slightly over exposed. If you underexpose in the slightest it's going to be garbage. The second you increase exposure in post it increases noise. Combine proper exposure with the amazing noise removal in Adobe Camera Raw or Lightroom and you can use your camera all of the way to it's max.



Thank you. My technique for proper exposure is as follows. 
When shooting in shutter priority I choose my shutter speed and it chooses an apertures based on that. I then look at the aperture through the view finder and ensure that it is not blinking. If it is blinking I adjust my shutter higher or lower until it stops. And until I get the proper aperture I see fit. I do the same in aperture priority mode aswell. However when shooting in manual( which is my preferred mode I adjust the shutter/aperture/ISo until the exposure bar sits in the middle. Note that the picture taken pitch dark. And shot in full manual mode. And the exposure bar was at the middle. I knew I could have opened up aperture a little more which would have given me a lower ISo but I wanted somewhere around f4.

Do you think I have proper exposure down a bit or u recommend I read more?

Again I consider myself pretty knowledgeable in photography but I have no one to talk to it about where I'm from and I do appreciate the time taken to respond to my threads. I also recently started getting into it


----------



## MTVision (Aug 3, 2012)

haleypapa said:
			
		

> Thank you. My technique for proper exposure is as follows.
> When shooting in shutter priority I choose my shutter speed and it chooses an apertures based on that. I then look at the aperture through the view finder and ensure that it is not blinking. If it is blinking I adjust my shutter higher or lower until it stops. And until I get the proper aperture I see fit. I do the same in aperture priority mode aswell. However when shooting in manual( which is my preferred mode I adjust the shutter/aperture/ISo until the exposure bar sits in the middle. Note that the picture taken pitch dark. And shot in full manual mode. And the exposure bar was at the middle. I knew I could have opened up aperture a little more which would have given me a lower ISo but I wanted somewhere around f4.
> 
> Do you think I have proper exposure down a bit or u recommend I read more?
> ...



Metering to 0 (which is what I'm assuming "exposure bar at middle"means) will not always give you the best exposure. MLeek can probably help you out here more then I can but maybe do some research on how your cameras light meter works as well as the different metering modes.



http://godigitalslr.com/simplified-introduction-dslrs-light-meter/

http://godigitalslr.com/introduction-metering-modes-dslr-photography/

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/camera-metering.htm


----------



## haleypapa (Aug 4, 2012)

I just finished watching a bunch of videos about exposure and light metering. Pretty simple stuff. My image was simply poor in quality  I just did another shot with my 85mm. I'll post tomorrow though. I decided to go the way in using my histogram and shoot to the right.  I saw a DIY snoot I'm going to try in the meanwhile. I think I'm addicted to this forum


----------



## haleypapa (Aug 4, 2012)

Was also using spot metering to. Switched to evaluative as I watched the first


----------



## bianni (Aug 4, 2012)

Here are two edits.


----------



## MLeeK (Aug 4, 2012)

0 is proper exposure only if you are metering middle gray or somewhere around this shade when you look at the image in terms of light to dark:




Some of the new cameras are more complex in their metering, but it all boils down to the basics and this is it. 


The following is a metering tutorial that I have propbably posted here a dozen times, but I don't have it bookmarked, so here it is again: (let's hope all of the image links work!)

In order to use full manual effectively you need to first understand your meter and have a good relationship with it. This is something that nearly every tutorial and class I have ever seen either skips totally or glosses over.
In camera meters don't measure the light in your scene. It's not like a scale or a tape measure that measures the ACTUAL LIGHT in any quantitative measurement. It measures what the reflected light from your subject looks like. A light meter actually measures the LIGHT of your scene and tells you what proper exposure settings should be. It's a ruler for light.

Now you are saying... um... ok.... what is the difference? Let's use snow as an example: A foot of light fluffy snow could weigh 1 ounce. A foot of heavy wet snow would weigh more like 1 pound. They both APPEAR the same-it's a foot of snow!!! But in reality one is heavier. It's the same with light. Things can look the same, but they aren't.

Your camera's meter takes that reflection off of whatever you are metering-could be snow, could be a black backdrop. No matter what it is, your camera tries to make that reading equal middle of the road or middle gray on the light to dark scale. The camera doesn't know if you are metering a black scene or a white scene. It only knows that average exposure should be middle gray.
Take a look at a black and white photo.




If I had metered off her dress it would have made her dress middle gray... This color:




Her dress would be really underexposed at that color. If I metered the background the camera would have tried to make that middle gray. Her dress would have been blown out. On this particular image I probably would have metered skin if I wanted something to be middle gray.

Now that you know that much, you also have to consider what the metering modes are using your scene and trying to average to middle gray.
Evaluative metering is measuring the whole scene. Sky, water, child playing in the sand... EVERYTHING and it's trying to make it average middle gray. Just like a grade in school it adds all of those pixels up and tries to equal middle gray when it divides them out. On the beach with the sky and water? Probably not going to be extremely accurate. For example this photo of Haley on the beach.




Convert it to grayscale and look at the bright and dark of it:





If I average the pixels out this is the gray they come out. 






Compare that to middle gray and it's a lot brighter tone-and there was a lot of dark stone in that one.
If you're on a white sandy beach on a bright day your gorgeous child playing in the sand is probably going to be drastically underexposed. You have lots of bright sky pixels, lots of bright sand pixels and a few dark ocean and child pixels... The bright ones win and hold the average up. In high contrast situations like my beach example evaluative doesn't really work well.
Consider an average setting like maybe your living room (assuming your walls are fairly light) with your kids playing? It might work really well!

Center Weighted average metering takes all of the pixels into consideration, but like a mid term and final test is worth more points than any other test, so are the pixels in the center of your scene. It averages all of them together and counts the center ones multiple times to make them more important than the outer pixels. It would sure help with that beach scene to make the pixels that were of your child more important. Closer at least!!!

Then there is Spot Metering. Your meter only evaluates the pixels you put your SPOT on. This works well if you can train yourself to look at the scene in terms of light and dark and decide what you want to be the middle tone. White, non-african/asian/indian etc skin is not usually middle gray It's much lighter. Think of when you convert to black and white. Is skin ever that color ^ up there? Nope. I find that your average grass is a good middle gray outside. My light oak hardwood floors indoors are a good middle of the road. For the image of Haley I would have metered Haley's skin on the back of her arm and then set my exposure to about +1 or JUST before the skin would blow out.


So, now that you understand metering a little better and have a better friendship with your meter it'll be easier to make it do what you want it to do.


----------



## haleypapa (Aug 4, 2012)

bianni said:
			
		

> <img src="http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=15764"/>
> 
> Here are two edits.



Wow. Im loving the tip image a whole lot. Photoshop or lr?


----------



## haleypapa (Aug 4, 2012)

MLeeK said:
			
		

> 0 is proper exposure only if you are metering middle gray or somewhere around this shade when you look at the image in terms of light to dark:
> 
> Some of the new cameras are more complex in their metering, but it all boils down to the basics and this is it.
> 
> ...



Great explaination. I will read it a couple of time with my camera in hand to test what u are saying  btw my daughter name is also Haley


----------



## MLeeK (Aug 4, 2012)

I wish she were my daughter, she's a stitch! She belongs to a friend of mine. 

If you print a grey card (you can find all kinds of samples for a grey card on the internet) and carry it with you to set exposure for a while you will REALLY get a better idea of how to see on that scale of light to dark. For a LONG time I had one about the size of a 4x6 that I had laminated and put on a lanyard. I used it for setting white balance and exposure. 

I find grass is a good thing to meter outside. Skin should be about +2 to +3 depending on the complexion. Black shirts should be about -2 to -3 depending on the situation. Average blue is usually a decent middle of the road. I spot meter and shoot in manual so that I know it won't change on me as it does with a priority mode.


----------



## haleypapa (Aug 6, 2012)

guys here is another picuture i took over the weekend while going to black tie event...please let me know what you think as i did a bunch of reading on proper exposure as well as using the histogram to tell if proper exposure was achieved..

i will also attach he raw.. feel free to edit..thankz

IMG_0105.CR2


----------



## MLeeK (Aug 6, 2012)

Exposure looks good.


----------



## haleypapa (Aug 7, 2012)

MLeeK said:
			
		

> Exposure looks good.



Yep I think the skin is a bit underexposed but I did some others that looked great. It really pays off reading stuff yes.


----------



## MLeeK (Aug 7, 2012)

The big thing is that your raw exposure is good. I prefer skin a bit brighter, but if you are getting GOOD exposure in raw you will have amazing images after post. Nicely done. Hope that tutorial helped you a little bit!


----------

