# Actually, I'm rather happy with my progress...



## elizpage (May 19, 2016)

I received a lot of negative comments from this website in particular about my photography skills (or lack thereof). I'd like to thank most of you now for pointing out how bad I was or I would have continued to not perform to what I knew I was capable of all along! This is not sarcasm, but genuine thanks to those who actually let me know my "work" wasn't up to par... I mean, and boy, was it bad....

I was an absolute embarrassment... There's really no doubting it. Although some of you could have been more constructive regarding feedback, I am really appreciative of the criticism. Now I know that I need to put out quality work that reflects my skill. I think it is rather hilarious though that most of the people with the harshest comments had no work to show. For those of you that actually do have hard-earned skill and gave constructive comments, I thank you much more than those who showered me with negative comments with no evidence to back up the claim that they had worked harder at photography than I had.


I'm obviously still growing, but I've really found my niche and I think it's in studio portraits and fashion photography!  Here's a shot from a studio session I did with a client when I was just starting in my home studio I set up... Yeah, I know they aren't perfect and there are some composition errors. However, I think this is a good thing I notice these flaws and can work to perfect this things - That way, I'll constantly be growing!


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## JacaRanda (May 19, 2016)

Unfortunately, what you have written seems to be pretty negative even if it's accurate.  
It's not always easy to do, but take the good and apply it to make your work better.  Disregard the bad, if it's not helpful to you.  
Our words may be just as much of a distraction to our images as a large watermark may be.

Nice moody lighting in both images.  You cropped or framed too close, cutting off some finger in the second shot.


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## Designer (May 19, 2016)

elizpage said:


> I received a lot of negative comments from this website ..


Perhaps you're just thin-skinned.  I remember your screen name, but I don't remember commenting.  Perhaps I was one of those who did nothing but grouse at you while not bothering to prove I had standing.  Whatever.  

Since you've made this post about your negative experience instead of showing a more positive attitude, I may as well add to the agony.

First shot needs more separation.  Model needs more light.  Can't tell if the frame is good or not, as I cannot see anything in the lower half of the frame.  

Second shot you've cropped her fingers.  Very nice otherwise.  

I'm glad you found your niche.  Please post again.


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## tirediron (May 19, 2016)

To be honest, the tone of your post strikes me as rather condescending.  I just went back and reviewed both your posts and the responses you received, and granted people weren't gushing over your work, but they were providing you with some very good C&C.  It might be blunt, it might be direct, and may have seemed like people were attacking you, but as an objective third party, I think you were provided with a lot of valuable and useful information.

As a specialty that's very near and dear to me, I'm happy to see that you feel portraiture is your niche.  Classic studio work is becoming a very under-served market in the 'cell-phone selfie' world of today.  With respect to the two images posted here, I have to say that I like the concept, but I feel that they have a way to go.  The fact that you recognize that is very good; and will definitely help you grow.  None of us are perfect, but if we stop striving for it, there's no point in doing anything.

An excellent method for improving your knowledge is to post the image(s) and then post your own self-critique.


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## Designer (May 19, 2016)

I think a very good intro to your photos is to tell us what you had intended.  What pose you intended, what light you intended, what "feeling" you intended to convey to the viewer.  The reason this is helpful is with all the members' observations, what you really want to know is how it comes across. 

If by pure chance someone offers his opinion of what feeling he got while looking at your photo, that is one thing, but if you say up front what feeling you intended, then more of us can explore the feeling aspect.  So it becomes much more valuable to you.

Don't leave important stuff to chance; be specific.


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## dannylightning (May 20, 2016)

yep,  you post photos here and people tell you exactly how the feel about them..    it may seem harsh at times but most of the time its not people being mean or rude,  there just telling you like it is.  every time i post a landscape i get mostly negative comments about it.     now if i post that photo on facebook or what not people really like it but the experienced landscape photographers see it differently and i can see why,  some people take amazing beautiful landscapes,   mine are just so so compared to allot of those..     i really enjoy shooting wildlife and i do not usually shoot other things so that is probably why i am bad at it..   i seem to do well with music photography too but i have only done that a couple times.     when i do post something and people say what they feel about it i just try to take it all in and think about it.

i think those photos you posted in this thread are nice..   never saw any of your other stuff.


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## waday (May 20, 2016)

People can be blunt, but they can also be harsh. I can appreciate bluntness, but harshness... well, that leaves a bad taste.


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## elizpage (May 20, 2016)

dannylightning said:


> yep,  you post photos here and people tell you exactly how the feel about them..    it may seem harsh at times but most of the time its not people being mean or rude,  there just telling you like it is.  every time i post a landscape i get mostly negative comments about it.     now if i post that photo on facebook or what not people really like it but the experienced landscape photographers see it differently and i can see why,  some people take amazing beautiful landscapes,   mine are just so so compared to allot of those..     i really enjoy shooting wildlife and i do not usually shoot other things so that is probably why i am bad at it..   i seem to do well with music photography too but i have only done that a couple times.     when i do post something and people say what they feel about it i just try to take it all in and think about it.
> 
> i think those photos you posted in this thread are nice..   never saw any of your other stuff.



Art is subjective, true. Thanks for these valuable points


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## elizpage (May 20, 2016)

Designer said:


> I think a very good intro to your photos is to tell us what you had intended.  What pose you intended, what light you intended, what "feeling" you intended to convey to the viewer.  The reason this is helpful is with all the members' observations, what you really want to know is how it comes across.
> 
> If by pure chance someone offers his opinion of what feeling he got while looking at your photo, that is one thing, but if you say up front what feeling you intended, then more of us can explore the feeling aspect.  So it becomes much more valuable to you.
> 
> Don't leave important stuff to chance; be specific.



Yes, that's true too! Thanks for your insight into this. I don't really remember who commented, it's really not important. 

I'm not by any means "thin-skinned," I just wanted to put something out in the open that's an issue here on these forums..  If it was negative, oh well.


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## elizpage (May 20, 2016)

tirediron said:


> To be honest, the tone of your post strikes me as rather condescending.  I just went back and reviewed both your posts and the responses you received, and granted people weren't gushing over your work, but they were providing you with some very good C&C.  It might be blunt, it might be direct, and may have seemed like people were attacking you, but as an objective third party, I think you were provided with a lot of valuable and useful information.
> 
> As a specialty that's very near and dear to me, I'm happy to see that you feel portraiture is your niche.  Classic studio work is becoming a very under-served market in the 'cell-phone selfie' world of today.  With respect to the two images posted here, I have to say that I like the concept, but I feel that they have a way to go.  The fact that you recognize that is very good; and will definitely help you grow.  None of us are perfect, but if we stop striving for it, there's no point in doing anything.
> 
> An excellent method for improving your knowledge is to post the image(s) and then post your own self-critique.



I was provided with some information that was useful, true   However, this post wasn't meant to be condescending but instead to point out an issue.... If a mod actually shuts down your topic and apologizes.. it may be time to address the issue.

I agree with growing constantly! I think the self-critique is definitely a good idea too.

I'd also like to offer some of my insight on how you might be able to improve your website if you'd like to hear my viewpoint on it.


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## Vtec44 (May 20, 2016)

Oh hey it's good to see you posting again .


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## tirediron (May 20, 2016)

If you mean my personal website, then by all means.  Hit me with both barrels.


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## otherprof (May 20, 2016)

elizpage said:


> I received a lot of negative comments from this website in particular about my photography skills (or lack thereof). I'd like to thank most of you now for pointing out how bad I was or I would have continued to not perform to what I knew I was capable of all along! This is not sarcasm, but genuine thanks to those who actually let me know my "work" wasn't up to par... I mean, and boy, was it bad....
> 
> I was an absolute embarrassment... There's really no doubting it. Although some of you could have been more constructive regarding feedback, I am really appreciative of the criticism. Now I know that I need to put out quality work that reflects my skill. I think it is rather hilarious though that most of the people with the harshest comments had no work to show. For those of you that actually do have hard-earned skill and gave constructive comments, I thank you much more than those who showered me with negative comments with no evidence to back up the claim that they had worked harder at photography than I had.
> 
> ...


The critical comments were about the photos, not you. When Socrates was sentenced to death, the last thing he asked the jury was to have someone to give his children the criticism they would need to become stronger and better. Criticism is not always an attack; sometimes it is a gift - of time, thought, etc. If I had to be able to prove I was a better photographer than the person whose work I was commenting on on this site, it would cut down my comments to almost nothing.


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## KC1 (May 20, 2016)

If you are happy with your photos, that's really all that matters. The rest is just noise. Everyone has a reason that they comment, and unless you know that reason you never know if the comment is even worth listening to.
As the song says, you can't please everyone so you've got to please yourself.
Happy shooting!


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## waday (May 20, 2016)

otherprof said:


> The critical comments were about the photos, not you.



One comment that ended up being deleted (but is still visible due to being quoted) from one of the OP's previous threads:

"Is the fact that I would have deleted these images before they saw the light of day constructive criticism?"

Then a moderator came in and cleaned up the place. Comments like these make people that are self-conscious about their photos not post. That's not the kind of forum I want to be a part of. This commenter essentially said they wouldn't have even taken the pictures (i.e., "before they saw the light of day"). That's not constructive. Why not make comments about the composition, posing, settings, etc, instead of just bashing the photos?

I'm not trying to pick on any specific users that made comments, but we're better than this. In fact, the person that quoted this statement said they hesitate posting their photos because of comments like this. That's not good.

We can and should provide feedback that is constructive, not destructive.


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## Rick50 (May 20, 2016)

I found this video by Joel Grimes very insightful. Advance to the 37 minute mark and watch the last 10 minutes of it. It gave me a different perspective on photography.


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## elizpage (May 20, 2016)

waday said:


> otherprof said:
> 
> 
> > The critical comments were about the photos, not you.
> ...



Thank you so much. I agree that we should and can be better than this.


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## elizpage (May 20, 2016)

tirediron said:


> If you mean my personal website, then by all means.  Hit me with both barrels.



The website listed in your signature, yes.


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## Designer (May 20, 2016)

KC1 said:


> If you are happy with your photos, that's really all that matters.


If everyone believed that, then this site would have nothing to talk about, because nobody would ever ask for C&C.  

The weather.

Whether you think you will weather the weather depends on whether you think it will rain.  

Or not.


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## KC1 (May 20, 2016)

waday said:


> otherprof said:
> 
> 
> > The critical comments were about the photos, not you.
> ...


It sounds to me like that commenter is a photographer that has created a tiny box out of fear in which they are so afraid that someone else won't like something they did that they would delete it "before it saw the light of day" and be afraid to step outside of that tiny box and post something just because they liked it.
That's just sad in my opinion, to put more value on someone you don't even know than on your own opinion.
Basically if someone posts a really silly comment based on not understanding what the photographer (or artist) wanted to do, then it's best to just put that person on ignore because they will never get it.


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## tirediron (May 20, 2016)

elizpage said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> > If you mean my personal website, then by all means.  Hit me with both barrels.
> ...


Go for it!


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## manaheim (May 20, 2016)

Hm.

Does someone not having something to show necessarily make them unqualified to comment on your work?

Do you necessarily even need to be a good photographer to critique photography effectively?

I think you should re-think your position here.

And your post was seriously negative.

And, honestly, I've not seen your prior work so I can't say how much you've improved, but if those images you posted here are examples of your current work, then you still have a long way to go.  Nothing wrong with that, of course. You can learn a TON from folks here... as long as you don't post comments flipping everyone off.


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## medic2230 (May 20, 2016)

@elizpage 

Do you use flash in any of your photography? Only natural light? Have you ever had the chance to learn flash photography from someone?


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## TheLibrarian (Jun 17, 2016)

The internets a tough place and the world can be cruel as well. Plenty of negative people on forums and part of it is our own insecurities.


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## Stradawhovious (Jun 17, 2016)

Here's my take on interwebz criticisms.  This isn't directed to the OP, this is just how I handle it.

If you believe your photos are perfect, then do not ask for criticism,  you will only be insulted at the responses.  I see this time and time again and it always ends in butthurt and angst.  My photos are never perfect, and probably never will be... so I move on to the next section.

If you believe you photos are NOT perfect, and ask for criticism, accept the positives and obviously constructive comments graciously.  You can do two things to make the things many people will see as a negative response as productive as possible... but only if you read into them with an open mind.

First off, be happy that people have taken the time to respond to your inquiry.  Even if you decide not to put any stock in their criticism or if you disagree with what they say, thank them for their comments.  They took time out of their day to share with you.

Secondly, with very few exceptions, even the most harshly worded response can have important and useful information.  All you need to do is crack open that ugly ass clam, grab that pearl of wisdom and toss the rest aside never to think of it again. 

My .02


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## tirediron (Jun 18, 2016)

That would be ugly-ass oyster!   Just sayin'...


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