# Technical questions



## jerry12 (Jul 4, 2012)

OK This is my second post.I just got my darkroom set up the way i want and did a test/try out session.
I found an old film canister from many moons ago!
There's was only 6 frames on it and it look like it was from the mid-90's.
But i have some problems that i hope that some of you maybe able to help.
I used Dektol for the developer.I also got a small pack of 5x7 Adorama paper.I don't know why but i got matt finish.I used glossy in the past but Kodak product.
My first question is,how can you tell witch side of the paper is the print side? With glossy finish you can see and feel it but with the matte i could not tell.The first print was upside down and i could not figure out why nothing was happening. 
So then i got another sheet and put it the right way,but the sheet is somewhat curl up on all corners.
I can't recall having to deal with this in the past.
How do you deal with this problem?  I tought maybe i could get a piece of glass and lay it on top of the sheet. Would that work?
My last question is also about curling but this get pretty bad after the last bath and then hanging to dry.The print curls really bad.
What can i do about it?  Is it the paper that i'm using? Should i go with a better product?
What brand of paper do you all like to use?    What finish?  glossy/matte?     RC or FB?
Any help would be nice.It's been a long time since i did darkroom work and my memory is getting worse
Thank you.


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## Helen B (Jul 4, 2012)

Dampen your index finger and thumb slightly, then pinch the corner of the paper. The stickier side is usually the emulsion side. Remember which way the sheets are in the box or envelope.

Are you holding the paper in an easel?

I dry my prints hanging back to back, clipped at the corners with plastic clothes pins. This decreases the amount of curling.


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## jerry12 (Jul 4, 2012)

Helen B said:


> I dry my prints hanging back to back, clipped at the corners with plastic clothes pins. This decreases the amount of curling.


So i take it that you do get some curling?


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## ann (Jul 4, 2012)

This sounds like old fiber paper. RC should lie flat even without an easel.

A printing easel is a must.  RC paper should also not curl when drying ( or at least not much) the higher the humidity the flatter the print will dry.

I use screens for both my fiber paper and RC contact sheets, we use window screens at school on a home made rack, prints dry flat.


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## Helen B (Jul 5, 2012)

jerry12 said:


> Helen B said:
> 
> 
> > I dry my prints hanging back to back, clipped at the corners with plastic clothes pins. This decreases the amount of curling.
> ...



Only at the very edges, away from the corners. The clothes pins do leave very small marks, however. I only use fibre-based B&W paper, by the way, not RC.


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## jerry12 (Jul 5, 2012)

the paper i got is FB matte 5x7
What do most of you uses? And do you use glossy or matte finish?
What brand paper do most of you use?  I only got the Adorama for getting started and test the equipment i have.


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## timor (Jul 6, 2012)

Hi Jerry. Welcome to darkroom "madness". 
Between papers are some important differences. FB is the "real" one and quite pricey, but delivers the best aesthetics if properly processed. RC paper is made for ease of work. FB paper delivers brighter whites and deeper blacks and bigger longevity of a print; 150 years and still counting. RC in theory can withstand 25-30 years with slightly less dynamic tones (not such a big difference) but with big advantages in processing. RC paper also can not be dry mounted; plastic will melt. If you are just starting your darkroom experience I would suggest to get a lot of RC and just play with it, learn your routines in darkroom, also learn your way of composition, dodging and burning etc. RC is also good for making contact sheets and checking the sharpness of your negatives. Then if you like some of your shots go to FB and make it good.
The cheapest source of paper I think right now has Ultrafine:
UltraFine On Line
They will not say, but I think it is Foma made paper. RC is OK, but for FB go somewhere else and I would suggest Ilford or Oriental for the best quality. (Oriental has Freestyle: Freestyle Photographic Supplies - Traditional Black & White Film, Paper, Chemicals, Holgas and ULF )
Any more question, just ask. Good luck !


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## ann (Jul 6, 2012)

One can dry mount RC papers, being doing it for years with my students.  The temperature and times are different, but with proper handing they should not melt. 


Matt paper is great for hand coloring, but for me, i don't care for the Dmax, seriously lacking but that is my opinion.

I would agree that RC is a great learning paper, my students always start with RC glossy as the glossy shows every flaw, which is important (IMHO) when learning to print. The "look" of RC vs Fiber is widely different as the RC papers have brighteners added within the paper and fiber does not.

RC times, both in development and washing will be shorter and along with the ease of drying  make it a good choice for beginners.

My students use Ilford RC glossy paper, my advanced students who are printing fiber use a variety of papers. The subject matter usually dictating what surface type. Generally for my personal work I use graded Oriental paper.


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## timor (Jul 6, 2012)

ann said:


> The "look" of RC vs Fiber is widely different as the RC papers have brighteners added within the paper and fiber does not.


What about baryta layer in FB papers ?


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## ann (Jul 6, 2012)

don't understand the question

Baryta layer or not they don't look the same,


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## timor (Jul 6, 2012)

Of course they don't look the same, RC will not have blacks as deep as FB. Baryta layer if I understand this right is to brighten the whites to almost the same level like brighteners in RC. And the difference is not that big, mounted and behind a glass most people will have a hard time to differentiate.


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## ann (Jul 6, 2012)

It all depends on one's vision. I have been printing for 64 years and find the difference huge.

others milage may vary.


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## timor (Jul 6, 2012)

Well, I may agree with that. And then I can not compete with 64 years, I am behind of about half of that and rather no chance to catch up. Also thank's for revealing it, when in doubts I know where to knock. I think I will start new tread as here is no place for that, and ask you how do you dry mount RC paper in detail. But that on the weekend.


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## ann (Jul 7, 2012)

one just mounts it as fiber, expect at a lower temperature and about 60 seconds in time.  Then be sure to put something heavy on the image while the process is cooling down or the print will curl right off the backboard, just seal release paper or brown craft paper will do .


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## jerry12 (Jul 7, 2012)

Thanks for the replies
I am going to get some of both,RC/FB 
Is Ilford what most people uses this days?
Back then i used Kodak and was really happy with it.I guess Kodak no longer makes paper?Can't find it anywhere.


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## ann (Jul 7, 2012)

Your correct Kodak no longer makes paper, haven't in years. If you find some, i wouldn't buy as it is likely to fog and as your just getting started there is no need to deal with that issue.

I tend to support Ilford as they are in for the long haul (with black and white photography) and in fact recently released a new paper.

Just remember fiber paper requires longer exposure times and longer development times, fixer times and washing times.


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## jerry12 (Jul 7, 2012)

ann said:


> Your correct Kodak no longer makes paper, haven't in years. If you find some, i wouldn't buy as it is likely to fog and as your just getting started there is no need to deal with that issue.
> 
> I tend to support Ilford as they are in for the long haul (with black and white photography) and in fact recently released a new paper.
> 
> Just remember fiber paper requires longer exposure times and longer development times, fixer times and washing times.


Good to know.
As far as developing time,does the time effects the print in any way?


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## timor (Jul 7, 2012)

Ilford is the best, you can get. Kodak and Agfa are out. Oriental has limited offer, but is also excellent. In FB also Berger is the top of the line, but expensive.(In comparison)


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## ann (Jul 7, 2012)

Yes, and in fact you need to be a clock watcher not a print watcher.

With fiber, pick some place between 2-3 minutes and be consistence, with Ilford RC paper, 90 secs. i.e.( 2 minutes, 2.5, or 3 minutes. )

Learning to be consistence with the whole workflow makes the darkroom work easier, and a lot more fun.

Making a consistent good negative, is the starting point.


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