# Education for Getting to Next Level (kelbyone vs lynda)



## kdthomas (Jul 29, 2015)

I want to get better & smarter with this craft, and I'm paying my dues by shooting ...

But also I think some education is in order. What do you folks think of these two sites? Or are there others I should consider?

KelbyOne - A better way to learning Photoshop Lightroom and Photography

Online video tutorials training lynda.com


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## Overread (Jul 29, 2015)

Depending on what you want to learn I would also suggest looking for in-person training - one on one is  the most ideal; most costly  but better to learn from (as group sessions tend to default to whoever is the weakest). It doesn't even have to be long term; sometimes a day or two can help you pick up some new skills or at least make the starting down the path to learning them. 

Things such as learning lighting positioning or studio work you can learn all from books and videos; but sometimes you can learn a lot faster in person. Plus when shooting in person its nice to have somone there to make you pause and reflect on what you're doing - stopping you from starting a bad habit before its even there.


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## JacaRanda (Jul 29, 2015)

I like Lynda.com.  Works well with a.d.d.  Photography to IPAD to Windows 10 to Excel and back to PS & Lightroom and on and on.


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## Designer (Jul 29, 2015)

JacaRanda said:


> Works well with a.d.d.


You have a.d.d.?


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## JacaRanda (Jul 29, 2015)

Designer said:


> JacaRanda said:
> 
> 
> > Works well with a.d.d.
> ...


Well, self diagnosis.  I'm a dude, aren't we all...kinda?


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## kdthomas (Jul 29, 2015)

JacaRanda said:


> Designer said:
> 
> 
> > JacaRanda said:
> ...



*SQUIRREL!!!*


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## chuasam (Jul 30, 2015)

Designer said:


> JacaRanda said:
> 
> 
> > Works well with a.d.d.
> ...


Squirrel!
I prefer taking classes at a college where I have to sit down and really work with a team.


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## Buckster (Jul 30, 2015)

Having extensively subscribed to both Lynda and Kelby over the years, my own personal opinion is that Kelby was FAR better on the photography techniques side of things, with really astounding photographers sharing how they work with the craft, while I found Lynda to be much better on the software side of things like Photoshop and so on.

YMMV


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## soufiej (Jul 30, 2015)

kdthomas said:


> I want to get better & smarter with this craft, and I'm paying my dues by shooting ...
> 
> But also I think some education is in order. What do you folks think of these two sites? Or are there others I should consider?
> 
> ...




What is it you are trying to learn? 

One site seems pretty specific regarding post production techniques.  Is this what you feel will make you a better photographer?  Learning how to work with your files after you've taken the shot?  

Looking briefly at their courses, I would be willing to bet most of what you will get from the "taking the shot" course work will probably be concepts you already have heard, if not used, prior to taking the class. 

Recording videos for such a class is difficult since there are no students giving feedback which means the instructor has to cover material quickly and, most importantly, has no known knowledge base from which to work.  Does the video speak to the entry level student, the more advanced hobbyist or the enterprising but still under employed pro?     Which ever way the instructor goes, two of those people are going to feel left out. 

As to the actual lessons dealing with post production, how do you learn? 

I often hit on the subject of individual styles of learning related to our own individual personality types.  I tend to work from one of the following three; the visual, the auditory and the tactile personality types since these are very basic to each individual. 

However, if you are a tactile person and you have a visually based lesson plan, then you will learn less than had you found an instructor who keys their lesson around your personality type.  If the course doesn't allow you to take a trail run with the instructors who will be teaching the specific classes you are interested in, then you are taking a chance IMO.

I play and teach guitar and I can tell you from experience that all video instructors are not equal, even if they all have talents which are admirable.   Some very good instructors can leave me cold because they are not working at or near my level and some who do can still be less than helpful when they pace their course at a repetitious, "So I'm placing my index finger on the first fret of the fifth string ...", level. 

And at times someone who really only provides an overview of how to play a technique can offer a small nugget that makes a whole lot of other stuff fall into place.  

Or, the "it's just that simple" instructor who knows what they know but never takes into account that even the most experienced listener is still new to what they are teaching.   You sit there for thirty minutes watching them and at the end you still have no idea what you should actually do, even though you just saw someone do it.  Your material isn't their material and when they work with only their material you are still left hanging. 

I consider myself to be a primarily visual learner in most areas but I stay away from most videos because they are too detached from feedback.  Yet even when I took a few private lessons from one of the area's best players, she wasn't very helpful IMO because she couldn't explain how she plays in terms I could easily work into my own playing.  

She's done this for decades and now she seldom even thinks about what she actually does.  Relatively simple things I would ask, such as, "What makes your style, your style?  What do you do most that defines how you play?"   

Now, admittedly, that can be a tricky question, particularly when you are discussing style with another player who has their own style.  Her answer was she hit on fifths a lot - and not the kind in a bottle.  I get that - she's basically a blues player - but that's not really an answer to how she plays that is uniquely her own.  It makes her fifth note playing even more evident when I listen to her play - that she's relying on a certain note in a scale and emphasizing that note hard - but that's not telling me just how she thinks about that fifth note to make her style her own. 

And that's really what I wanted to know, I like your playing, show me a bit about how you actually think about playing, not just what notes you play.   In the end, I got some useful information from her but I can't really say I think I got what I came for. 

When you detach even that much personal feedback by way of a video and no opportunity for one on one feedback,  you can receive information that is correct, but not actually helpful.  Therefore, do a trial run of the class work if you decide to try the former and decide whether you feel this is the course for you. 

Lynda.com is well known and has been widely used by many students.  There are probably a sufficient number of courses in the plan to suit most levels of talent.  Since we have no idea where you are with your own work, it's still difficult IMO to tell you who much you will actually receive from Lynda.com. 

With over 25k videos though, it's hard to think you can't find something in there that you don't already know.   

So, how do you learn?  And, where do you want to go with this?  Are you hoping to make photography a money making hobby?  Or a profession? 

If you are in Denton, you have a great college to use and it's probably no more than a few minutes drive.  IMO I would first check out the courses the college has to offer.  You can audit most college level classes but you will be in what I consider the best learning environment - if you get the best instructor for you.  Auditing a class is almost like taking your guitar to an informal jam session.  The one on one contact and feedback are, IMO, essential for really learning a subject.  

That would be my first recommendation.

You also are within reach of Dallas (and even Ft Worth) where there are other colleges and numerous shops to advise you.  

Possibly, if the actual thought process of photography is what you're after, a few photo safaris led by a few local hot shots would be best.  One on one again and you're in an environment which usually has a wide range of talent and knowledge.  There's input and feedback from numerous sources and one or more will probably click on how you learn.  
These are the sort of "lessons" which are informal yet you're not committing to work that doesn't interest you and yet such a weekend or week can be highly educational for most students ... if they are paying attention.   

Which, I suppose, from what we've read, would leave out most males due to their inherent ADD.  

Oh, well, if you're married, pop a few of your wife's birth control pills and give it a shot.


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## sm4him (Jul 30, 2015)

I'm no male, but I am "et up" with ADHD. Well, you won't find it officially on my medical charts or anything, but when your primary care Doc hands you a book on "adults with ADHD," it's probably a sign. 

Anyway...I've used both lynda.com and KelbyOne and a few other places as well, one of which I'll mention in a minute.

Actual local classes or workshops ARE a great idea, and in theory, they would be my preference, but:
1. They are often more expensive.
2. They move at a pre-set pace. You either keep up or you get left behind (OR, you're ahead, and you sit around twiddling your thumbs)
3. They are STILL highly dependent on the quality of the instructor. They might be a master at Photoshop or LR, but if they are so boring they could replace your sleep-aid, you won't get much out of it. You have to really do your homework BEFORE registering, to make sure the instructor is worth the money.
4. They are very time and place dependent. You might find a few classes offered at varying times or locations, but it's going to be limited. IF that works in your schedule, great. But I tend to have time to work on my PP skills at odd times--an hour at lunchtime, 6am in the morning, 9:30 at night...and I've yet to find the local class to fits those time spots.

So, for me, videos work best, all things considered. Now, you can save money by simply searching for videos on whatever you want to work on and finding free tutorials. There are some great free tuts out there, and I've used many of them. 
But, I admit, I like the learning sites best, for several reasons. The biggest is probably the fact that it's just more "organized." I can start at a specific point and work my way through a series of videos.  The second biggest reason is that (imo) these specialized sites have sort of "weeded out" the bad already. If I google a particular PS technique, I might have to try several different videos before I get one that is decent quality, understandable, etc. With Kelby and lynda, the videos are all of a certain "base" standard.  To be sure, there is STILL the element of "personality"--I find some instructors more interesting than others, but at least you aren't likely to have to cull through the tutorials where the person evidently didn't even know how to create a video.

My opinion of different sites:
KelbyOne--really good for photography and PS (and I presume LR, haven't used it for that...yet). I've liked pretty much every video I've watched. AND, KelbyOne membership also includes a digital copy of Photoshop User magazine, which I've found at least interesting to peruse.
lynda.com--also a really good site. As others have mentioned, lynda is less "specialized" in that it has videos for a LOT more than just photography and post-processing. It also has classes for word-processing apps, Illustrator, Excel, video, and on and on. 
One thing I really LIKE about lynda is that I can add videos to my queue, and even set up different queues, so that as I find videos I'm interested in, I can go ahead and put them in the queue, and not worry about trying to find them again later. So, I might have 12 videos on PS and another 12 on Illustrator or InDesign, and I can just go in whenever I have time, click on that section, see what I've already done and start with the next one in the queue.
However, I've found more videos on lynda.com that didn't hold my attention than what I've found on Kelby.

Another site I've used:
phlearn: I love, love, love this site.  I have not yet PAID for any of their videos, but I probably will at some point. But I've learned a lot from their freebies, and there hasn't been a single one that didn't at least hold my interest.  I'd highly recommend checking them out as well.

Here's my suggestion (at long last):
First, check out phlearn. You can thank me later. 
Second, try the 10-day trial for lynda.com--that'll be long enough to give you a feel for it. AND, the good thing is, if you sign up for the trial, but then don't pay immediately, but you come back in a month or two, or six, and login then and subscribe, you will find that it has kept all the videos right there in your queues for you! 
Third, try KelbyOne. I don't think there's a free trial (but someone may have a discount code or something), but it's only like $20 a month, so at worst, you're out $20 if you pay for one month and don't care for it.

Only way to know for yourself which ones YOU will actually use and get the most out of, is to try them for yourself!


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## kdthomas (Jul 30, 2015)

Essentially I want to get my postprocessing results to that of a studio professional. Not sure if that's descriptive enough ... most everything I do is in black & white ... and that's probably my style, but I really need to be able to get those polished results.


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## kdthomas (Jul 30, 2015)

And ... I've been toying with the idea of going micro-pro or semi-pro at some point ... I'm not sure I'm at a skill level to ask for money. I compare my stuff with what's out there, and I don't feel like it's up to market.


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## dennybeall (Aug 1, 2015)

kdthomas - the "MARKET" is looking for photos at every level. Many folks just need to document a place or event. They just need what they need, not what the best of the best can produce. That market is changing very, very quickly and you can see that with the photographers that are out of business or out of a job. A client may only want a photo to post on a web site or photos of a building to list it for sale. Perhaps just a family photo to email to granny back in Iowa. There is work at every level if you really want it. But, Keep Your Day Job!!


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## chuasam (Aug 2, 2015)

kdthomas said:


> Essentially I want to get my postprocessing results to that of a studio professional. Not sure if that's descriptive enough ... most everything I do is in black & white ... and that's probably my style, but I really need to be able to get those polished results.


be prepared to put years and years of hard work into that.


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## Derrel (Aug 2, 2015)

kdthomas said:
			
		

> I want to get better & smarter with this craft, and I'm paying my dues by shooting ...
> 
> But also I think some education is in order. What do you folks think of these two sites? Or are there others I should consider?
> 
> ...



Have you considered some books on photography, lighting, as well as painting, and even more importantly, books about the field of *design*? There's a lot that can be learned from books. There's an interesting website called The Canon of Design [SIC], which I think you might like. Read the free articles, see if you're interested in learning more.  Canon of Design Table of Contents


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