# What earns the title "Photographer" to you?



## Peeb

According to Henri Cartier-Bresson, your first ten-thousand photographs are your worst.

At what point has a person evolved from picture-taker to artist?

I personally have no special affinity for the title 'photographer', but to some, it seems significant.  

You?


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## jake337

If you take pictures you are a photographer by definition.


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## 480sparky

The fact that I use a camera.


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## Derrel

I consider somebody who realllllly _knows how to shoot_ to be a photographer.


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## robbins.photo

My camera takes great pictures, or so everyone tells me.  So really I guess I'm a tripod.


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## 480sparky

robbins.photo said:


> My camera takes great pictures, or so everyone tells me.  So really I guess I'm a tripod.



No... your a bipedal.


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## robbins.photo

480sparky said:


> robbins.photo said:
> 
> 
> 
> My camera takes great pictures, or so everyone tells me.  So really I guess I'm a tripod.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No... your a bipedal.
Click to expand...


Lol.. ok, well I could counter with a really dirty joke here.. but the minute I do this turns into another one of those genitala everywhere threads.  So ok, Bipedal it is.. lol


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## Peeb

Derrel said:


> I consider somebody who realllllly _knows how to shoot_ to be a photographer.


Yeah- that's not at all bad the way you say it.  More of an honor to those who 'earn' it, rather than disrespect for those of us less skilled.  Can't really disagree.

I've seen folks go the other way with it and roll their eyes at anyone referred to as a 'photographer' who does fit their definition.


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## Vtec44

People pay me to shoot?


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## unpopular

Amateurs take pictures of things
Professionals (photographers) take pictures of light
Artists take pictures of ideas


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## Vtec44

unpopular said:


> Amateurs take pictures of things
> Professionals (photographers) take pictures of light
> Artists take pictures of ideas



Online pros talk about taking pictures


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## EIngerson

I once saw the face of Ansel Adams in one of my landscape photos. I then knew that I was indeed a photographer.


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## Derrel

EIngerson said:
			
		

> I once saw the face of Ansel Adams in one of my landscape photos. I then knew that I was indeed a photographer.



You'd better be careful of those wild mushrooms...


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## unpopular

Adams was such a tool.


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## JustJazzie

Vtec44 said:


> unpopular said:
> 
> 
> 
> Amateurs take pictures of things
> Professionals (photographers) take pictures of light
> Artists take pictures of ideas
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Online pros talk about taking pictures
Click to expand...

And I thought the proper tittle for them was "theoretical photographers" lol! Ah well, a rose by any other name.........


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## JustJazzie

Once I put my foot on the gas pedal, I became a driver. As soon as I had a baby, I became a mother. Once I started taking photographs, I became a photographer. Titles mean nothing though, I'm only good at one out of three. ;-)


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## robbins.photo

JustJazzie said:


> Once I put my foot on the gas pedal, I became a driver. As soon as I had a baby, I became a mother. Once I started taking photographs, I became a photographer. Titles mean nothing though, I'm only good at one out of three. ;-)



Oh great, now you tell me - after I jumped through all those hoops to get myself declared a bipedal.

I was having T-shirts made and everything.  Sheesh.

Killjoy.

Lol


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## JustJazzie

robbins.photo said:


> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Once I put my foot on the gas pedal, I became a driver. As soon as I had a baby, I became a mother. Once I started taking photographs, I became a photographer. Titles mean nothing though, I'm only good at one out of three. ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh great, now you tell me - after I jumped through all those hoops to get myself declared a bipedal.
> 
> I was having T-shirts made and everything.  Sheesh.
> 
> Killjoy.
> 
> Lol
Click to expand...

That's what moms do! Kill dreams. Ruin lives and all that. *shrug* it's the one thing I'm good at.


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## Fred Berg

Being able to hold a pen and knowing how to spell does't make a person a writer. Having an understanding of the technicalities surrounding cameras and darkrooms (software) doesn't make one a photographer. 

Photographers are like poets: what they create is greater than the sum of its parts.


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## Designer

Peeb said:


> At what point has a person evolved from picture-taker to artist?
> 
> I personally have no special affinity for the title 'photographer', but to some, it seems significant.


As usual, there are degrees to this as it is with most things. 

By juxtaposing the terms "picture taker" and "artist" betrays your prejudice and presupposition. 

Where is it written that every photographer aspires to artistry?


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## unpopular

JustJazzie said:


> I'm only good at one out of three. ;-)



If you're a good parent, it's not #2.


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## TheUniverse

Peeb said:


> According to Henri Cartier-Bresson, your first ten-thousand photographs are your worst.
> 
> At what point has a person evolved from picture-taker to artist?
> 
> I personally have no special affinity for the title 'photographer', but to some, it seems significant.
> 
> You?



And to me, photographer is nothing more than a word. Certainly not a title. And anyone who worries about such things has too much time on their hands.

For what it's worth: a photographer is anyone who uses a photo camera to create an image. No matter how good or bad that image is.

A pro-photographer is anyone who makes a living using a camera to create images. No matter how bad or good those images are.


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## robbins.photo

JustJazzie said:


> robbins.photo said:
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> 
> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Once I put my foot on the gas pedal, I became a driver. As soon as I had a baby, I became a mother. Once I started taking photographs, I became a photographer. Titles mean nothing though, I'm only good at one out of three. ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh great, now you tell me - after I jumped through all those hoops to get myself declared a bipedal.
> 
> I was having T-shirts made and everything.  Sheesh.
> 
> Killjoy.
> 
> Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's what moms do! Kill dreams. Ruin lives and all that. *shrug* it's the one thing I'm good at.
Click to expand...

And you wonder why mom's are never given the secret passwords to forts and clubhouses.

Lol

Sent from my 306SH using Tapatalk


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## table1349

robbins.photo said:


> 480sparky said:
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> robbins.photo said:
> 
> 
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> My camera takes great pictures, or so everyone tells me.  So really I guess I'm a tripod.
> 
> 
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> 
> No... your a bipedal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lol.. ok, well I could counter with a really dirty joke here.. but the minute I do this turns into another one of those genitala everywhere threads.  So ok, Bipedal it is.. lol
Click to expand...

Okay so you are a mini tripod.


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## robbins.photo

gryphonslair99 said:


> robbins.photo said:
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> 480sparky said:
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> robbins.photo said:
> 
> 
> 
> My camera takes great pictures, or so everyone tells me.  So really I guess I'm a tripod.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No... your a bipedal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lol.. ok, well I could counter with a really dirty joke here.. but the minute I do this turns into another one of those genitala everywhere threads.  So ok, Bipedal it is.. lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Okay so you are a mini tripod.
Click to expand...


Ok, so I could have sworn I mentioned earlier how I was trying to be good and not have this dissolve into another one of those genitalia scattered about all willy nilly everywhere threads.. lol


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## waday




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## vfotog

Fred Berg said:


> Being able to hold a pen and knowing how to spell does't make a person a writer. Having an understanding of the technicalities surrounding cameras and darkrooms (software) doesn't make one a photographer.
> 
> Photographers are like poets: what they create is greater than the sum of its parts.



using a camera makes you a photographer. It doesn't mean you are a GOOD photographer. It doesn't mean you are an artistic photographer. It doesn't mean you are a professional photographer.


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## 480sparky

gryphonslair99 said:


> robbins.photo said:
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> 480sparky said:
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> robbins.photo said:
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> My camera takes great pictures, or so everyone tells me.  So really I guess I'm a tripod.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No... your a bipedal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lol.. ok, well I could counter with a really dirty joke here.. but the minute I do this turns into another one of those genitala everywhere threads.  So ok, Bipedal it is.. lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Okay so you are a mini tripod.
Click to expand...


Actually, he's a quintopod............ since he drags his knuckles when he walks.


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## robbins.photo

480sparky said:


> Actually, he's a quintopod............ since he drags his knuckles when he walks.



Ok, so you say drag, I say lightly brush.. eh.. potato, french fries, cest la vie.

Lol


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## dennybeall

I've always been hung up on adjectives so anybody that takes a photo is a photographer but the adjectives (good, professional, excellent, wedding, bad etc. ) make the difference.


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## table1349

robbins.photo said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
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> robbins.photo said:
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> 480sparky said:
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> robbins.photo said:
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> 
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> My camera takes great pictures, or so everyone tells me.  So really I guess I'm a tripod.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No... your a bipedal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lol.. ok, well I could counter with a really dirty joke here.. but the minute I do this turns into another one of those genitala everywhere threads.  So ok, Bipedal it is.. lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Okay so you are a mini tripod.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, so I could have sworn I mentioned earlier how I was trying to be good and not have this dissolve into another one of those genitalia scattered about all willy nilly everywhere threads.. lol
Click to expand...

Who mentioned genitalia?  NOT MEEEE!!!


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## table1349

robbins.photo said:


> 480sparky said:
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> 
> 
> Actually, he's a quintopod............ since he drags his knuckles when he walks.
> 
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> 
> Ok, so you say drag, I say lightly brush.. eh.. potato, french fries, cest la vie.
> 
> Lol
Click to expand...


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## 480sparky

Ok. Let's just stop this silliness and agree you're a _Gorillapod_.


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## robbins.photo

480sparky said:


> Ok. Let's just stop this silliness and agree you're a _Gorillapod_.



Ok well lets agree on something this time - I've already blown a wad of cash ordering a thousand T-shirts with Bipedal on them, and honestly those are not going to be that easy to unload.

Lol


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## Mr. Innuendo

Peeb said:


> At what point has a person evolved from picture-taker to artist?
> 
> I personally have no special affinity for the title 'photographer', but to some, it seems significant.



The title "photographer" is no more or less meaningful than "artist" or "cook" or "circus clown" or "mechanic". It's just a word.

I identify myself as a "photographer" because that's what's most easily understood by the general public.


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## 480sparky

robbins.photo said:


> 480sparky said:
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> 
> 
> Ok. Let's just stop this silliness and agree you're a _Gorillapod_.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok well lets agree on something this time - I've already blown a wad of cash ordering a thousand T-shirts with Bipedal on them, and honestly those are not going to be that easy to unload.
> 
> Lol
Click to expand...



Sell 'em to these zany _Homo Sapiens_. They seem to think walking upright makes them special.


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## table1349

480sparky said:


> Ok. Let's just stop this silliness and agree you're a _Gorillapod_.


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## table1349

480sparky said:


> robbins.photo said:
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> 
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> 480sparky said:
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> 
> 
> Ok. Let's just stop this silliness and agree you're a _Gorillapod_.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok well lets agree on something this time - I've already blown a wad of cash ordering a thousand T-shirts with Bipedal on them, and honestly those are not going to be that easy to unload.
> 
> Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Sell 'em to these zany _Homo Sapiens_. They seem to think walking upright makes them special.
Click to expand...

This is what makes them special......


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## table1349

robbins.photo said:


> 480sparky said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok. Let's just stop this silliness and agree you're a _Gorillapod_.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok well lets agree on something this time - I've already blown a wad of cash ordering a thousand T-shirts with Bipedal on them, and honestly those are not going to be that easy to unload.
> 
> Lol
Click to expand...

Ohhhh...............ohhhhh.....................ohhhh..............................Better yet, sell them to this guy.
.
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He will probably make it his campaign slogan.


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## Fred Berg

vfotog said:


> Fred Berg said:
> 
> 
> 
> Being able to hold a pen and knowing how to spell does't make a person a writer. Having an understanding of the technicalities surrounding cameras and darkrooms (software) doesn't make one a photographer.
> 
> Photographers are like poets: what they create is greater than the sum of its parts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> using a camera makes you a photographer. It doesn't mean you are a GOOD photographer. It doesn't mean you are an artistic photographer. It doesn't mean you are a professional photographer.
Click to expand...


Using a camera makes you a camera user, nothing less and nothing more.


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## unpopular

Mr. Innuendo said:


> Peeb said:
> 
> 
> 
> At what point has a person evolved from picture-taker to artist?
> 
> I personally have no special affinity for the title 'photographer', but to some, it seems significant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The title "photographer" is no more or less meaningful than "artist" or "cook" or "circus clown" or "mechanic". It's just a word.
> 
> I identify myself as a "photographer" because that's what's most easily understood by the general public.
Click to expand...


Well. You need a license to REALLY call yourself a "mechanic".

There is the PPA, of course, but as far as I can tell that just makes you a douche.


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## table1349

Fred Berg said:


> vfotog said:
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fred Berg said:
> 
> 
> 
> Being able to hold a pen and knowing how to spell does't make a person a writer. Having an understanding of the technicalities surrounding cameras and darkrooms (software) doesn't make one a photographer.
> 
> Photographers are like poets: what they create is greater than the sum of its parts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> using a camera makes you a photographer. It doesn't mean you are a GOOD photographer. It doesn't mean you are an artistic photographer. It doesn't mean you are a professional photographer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Using a camera makes you a camera user, nothing less and nothing more.
Click to expand...

Then by that logic taking a photograph would make you a photographer.


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## unpopular

Engineer:





Biker:





TPF Member:


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## unpopular

Fred Berg said:


> Using a camera makes you a camera user, nothing less and nothing more.



Not the way I use mine ... but that would be NSFW to discuss.


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## unpopular

In other news. If you type in "ggggggggg" in google image search, you get a lot of photos of pretty girls.

I have no idea why.


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## robbins.photo

gryphonslair99 said:


> robbins.photo said:
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> 
> 
> 
> 480sparky said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok. Let's just stop this silliness and agree you're a _Gorillapod_.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok well lets agree on something this time - I've already blown a wad of cash ordering a thousand T-shirts with Bipedal on them, and honestly those are not going to be that easy to unload.
> 
> Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ohhhh...............ohhhhh.....................ohhhh..............................Better yet, sell them to this guy.
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
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> He will probably make it his campaign slogan.
Click to expand...


Oh no.  Not a chance.  last time I sold shirts to that guy he declared bankruptcy 2 days later.  I never saw a dime.  Not doing that again.

Lol


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## snowbear

It's the Internet . . . I can call myself anything I want.

But, back to your question: someone who knows how to use a camera in at least one mode other than Auto.


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## robbins.photo

snowbear said:


> It's the Internet . . . I can call myself anything I want.



His Most Imperial Majesty High Lord Snowbear the Magnificent  does sort of have a nice ring to it, I must admit.  Would be a ***** to fit on a business card though.


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## snowbear

I was thinking more "His Chilliness."


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## robbins.photo

snowbear said:


> I was thinking more "His Chilliness."



It's peppy.   I like it.

But your on your own for getting the T-shirts.  lol


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## unpopular

snowbear said:


> It's the Internet . . . I can call myself anything I want.



You can call me Carl then.

I always liked Carl.

Bee-do Bee-do Bee-do


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## 480sparky

unpopular said:


> ..........Bee-do Bee-do Bee-do



_To do is to be_.  Plato
_To be is to do._ Socrates
_Doo be doo be doo_.  Sinatra


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## unpopular

^^ Epic Fail.


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## robbins.photo

unpopular said:


> snowbear said:
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> 
> 
> It's the Internet . . . I can call myself anything I want.
> 
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> You can call me Carl then.
> 
> I always liked Carl.
> 
> Bee-do Bee-do Bee-do
Click to expand...


NORM!

Oh... wait.. sorry.  CARL!

Lol


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## unpopular

You can't eat hands Carl.


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## Fred Berg

gryphonslair99 said:


> Fred Berg said:
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> 
> 
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> vfotog said:
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fred Berg said:
> 
> 
> 
> Being able to hold a pen and knowing how to spell does't make a person a writer. Having an understanding of the technicalities surrounding cameras and darkrooms (software) doesn't make one a photographer.
> 
> Photographers are like poets: what they create is greater than the sum of its parts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> using a camera makes you a photographer. It doesn't mean you are a GOOD photographer. It doesn't mean you are an artistic photographer. It doesn't mean you are a professional photographer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Using a camera makes you a camera user, nothing less and nothing more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then by that logic taking a photograph would make you a photographer.
Click to expand...


No, because that is just too passive. For me, photographers don't take photos, they MAKE them.


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## Vtec44

Fred Berg said:


> No, because that is just too passive. For me, photographers don't take photos, they MAKE them.



You mean the good photographers make photos.  The term photographer I think covers everyone, good and not so good.


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## unpopular

Guys. Please stay off topic.

Thank you.


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## robbins.photo

unpopular said:


> Guys. Please stay off topic.
> 
> Thank you.



There's a topic?


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## snowbear

I like turtles.
and seals, and fish, and bacon, and peach tea, and apple pie, and cinnamon rolls.


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## Overread

Snow - what about the maryland crabs?


In other news a photographer is someone who takes pictures with a camera. 
That's kinda what the word means - I mean there aren't many other ways to interpret that. Now of course if some national body were to suddenly step in and act as gatekeeper as to who could call themselves a photographer or not then it would change the definition a little, the word approved or something like that might slip in and then there'd be some sort of standardized standards of quality and skill and such or just of bank balance in signing up which we would endlessly ague over. 


Most definitions of photographer that try to classify it as a skill or equipment of some level of artistic magic tend to be a simple case of trying to get the word "Photographer" to stick to people they like and admire whilst at the same time expunging all those they dislike/consider lesser/don't use more than auto mode/look funny. 

As a result they end up with some highly complex convoluted definition of the word that sort of works, but really doesn't.



I would argue that in common parlance most consider the title or name or label "Photographer" to mean someone who generally takes it more "seriously" than just idle phone-camera snapshots. However even that is hard to actually define and is mostly a case of removing the majority of the snapshot population - because even then a snapshot can be a masterwork; a camera phone a fine tool*.

So eh its a label - one we like to either have upon ourselves or one we wish to aspire to; those who wish to aspire often dislike any notion of the term being used on any one who is not fantastic. They WANT to aspire to be a photographer; they want to EARN that title; even though its not really there to be earned. 


*I mean seriously camera phones are better than some early cameras EVER were and those early cameras were used by PHOTOGRAPHERS


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## snowbear

Overread said:


> Snow - what about the maryland crabs?


Numbers are down, so prices are up.

As far as the Southern Maryland Blue Crabs (minor league baseball) - 13/21 in a three-way tie for last.


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## nerwin

I consider myself a photographer, I may not be that good but I do understand the fundamentals of photography. I took classes, I spent money I don't have on this art, I have a passion for this art. So yes, I consider myself a photographer. However, I don't consider someone who bought a DSLR who doesn't know what they are doing or have zero passion in photography nor want to learn about photography, photographers.

I don't care for the definition of Photographer - "Someone who takes pictures"...ugh..it should be "Someone who MAKES pictures".


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## jake337

Not to sure about the whole photographer thing but here are the keys to winning.


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## unpopular

EUGH! Nerwin! 

Some of us have worked really hard to derail this thread. How would you like it if someone came into your successful trolling efforts and attempted to undo everything you've put so much effort into ruining!

So disrespectful.


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## Overread

HEY! Are my anti-madness efforts not worth a mention too?!


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## Vtec44

nerwin said:


> However, I don't consider someone who bought a DSLR who doesn't know what they are doing or have zero passion in photography nor want to learn about photography, photographers.
> 
> I don't care for the definition of Photographer - "Someone who takes pictures"...ugh..it should be "Someone who MAKES pictures".




Well aren't you elite?


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## robbins.photo

Overread said:


> HEY! Are my anti-madness efforts not worth a mention too?!


And this year's winner of an honorable mention for attempting to derail the madness by distracting....


Oh..something shiny!!!

Sent from my 306SH using Tapatalk


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## vfotog

robbins.photo said:


> Overread said:
> 
> 
> 
> HEY! Are my anti-madness efforts not worth a mention too?!
> 
> 
> 
> And this year's winner of an honorable mention for attempting to derail the madness by distracting....
> 
> 
> Oh..something shiny!!!
> 
> Sent from my 306SH using Tapatalk
Click to expand...



do I get the killjoy award cos I think the derailing is annoying and childish?


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## snowbear

vfotog said:


> robbins.photo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Overread said:
> 
> 
> 
> HEY! Are my anti-madness efforts not worth a mention too?!
> 
> 
> 
> And this year's winner of an honorable mention for attempting to derail the madness by distracting....
> 
> 
> Oh..something shiny!!!
> 
> Sent from my 306SH using Tapatalk
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> do I get the killjoy award cos I think the derailing is annoying and childish?
Click to expand...

.


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## unpopular

Looks like someone took a crap in vtog's cereal.


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## 480sparky

vfotog said:


> do I get the killjoy award cos I think the derailing is annoying and childish?


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## vfotog

unpopular said:


> Looks like someone took a crap in vtog's cereal.


nope. I just think if you're not interested in the topic, instead of trolling and derailing it, just don't read it. It's annoying to have to go through all the self-absorbed stuff to get back to the topic.


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## Overread

PEOPLE CALM DOWN



As an aside the distracting nature of posts is likely all that saves this thread from a burning and crashing - questioning what a photographer is to photographers is like shaking a towel before a bull. The bull isn't sure what the heck is going on, but its sure not happy about it and its going to smash stuff


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## 480sparky

vfotog said:


> ..........., just don't read it...........



Hey, now THERE'S an idea!

How about you try that and let us know how it works?


As an aside, proclaiming one's self as Official Thread Police is also taking a thread off-topic.


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## vfotog

480sparky said:


> vfotog said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..........., just don't read it...........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, now THERE'S an idea!
> 
> How about you try that and let us know how it works?
> 
> 
> As an aside, proclaiming one's self as Official Thread Police is also taking a thread off-topic.
Click to expand...



but I'm actually interested in the topic


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## 480sparky

vfotog said:


> but I'm actually interested in the topic



Then read the thread while wearing your big boy pants.  If you ask me, tossing out "Disagree"  every time you read something you don't' like is just so, ..... so.................... well,  _2-year-old_.


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## vintagesnaps

It seems to be somewhat the nature of message boards. Sometimes it can be funny but it can get carried away; I don't mind it so much if it's joking around, I don't like it when people are sniping at each other and it keeps going. I suppose it's either stay out of the thread or report it to a mod.

For that matter, have you ever run a meeting?? lol same thing, the conversation can veer off into something unrelated and usually takes a little letting it run its course then getting it back on track.

The term is so general I think that it gets used a lot of ways. I don't think it's just in photography either, that it's pretty easy online particularly for people to call themselves what they want.

I don't really know how I'd define it, I've been a photographer long enough to know I am one! lol Usually if it's more than taking pictures at the holidays or of the kids etc. for your own use (even that could be considered a hobby if someone does scrapbooking with their photos etc.). I'd consider it to be someone who is a hobbyist, or doing work of some sort, or is doing something with a purpose (beyond some family or vacation snapshots) with a camera.


----------



## unpopular

Rescuing the internet, one down vote at a time.

At any rate. I think there is validity here. There is a difference between snapshots and photographs. Snapshots are intended to augment memory, they're significant only to the people involved. Art attempts to express or explore something about the universe we share (though not necessarily something we *all* share universally), photography differs from snapshots in that the image is intended to be significant to not only those immediately affected by the subject, but instead a wide audience.

As such, it is not the person who earns this title, but rather the image.


----------



## robbins.photo

vfotog said:


> do I get the killjoy award cos I think the derailing is annoying and childish?



Yes, in fact you do.  We'll mail that out to your right away.  Might want to consider pawning it and putting the money towards something useful, like a sense of humor.

In the meantime, since your obviously dying for something "on topic", the whole point is there has never been a topic of discussion here.  Not from the very first post.

Photographer:  a person who takes photographs especially as a job.

That is the definition.  Anyone who has a problem with that can take it up with Webster.  Now, if you want to have committee meetings to setup some sort of super elite club and pass around sashes and little merit badges for various accomplishments like "shooting above 400 ISO" or "manually focusing a lens", feel free.

However that does not and will not change the definition of what a photographer is, so I'm afraid that you'll simply have to come up with some other word to use in it's place.  You don't get to just redefine words, even if it is in some desperate attempt to feel superior to another.

So, there you go.  Totally on topic.  Hopefully your happy now.  Enjoy your award.


----------



## nerwin

I don't do much trolling, so sorry for ruining the thread.


----------



## snowbear

Meh.  It was doomed from the start.

Don't let the serious stuff get in the way of the silly $#it.


----------



## unpopular

This topic has been discussed ad nauseam. All the same points that will ever be made were made in the first few posts.

vfotog, you might want to let off the disagree button just a bit. Especially when you're clearly unwilling to upvote well considered responses, such as The Other Sharon's.


----------



## unpopular

vfotog said:


> "shooting above 400 ISO"



Isn't shooting *under* ISO 400 more of an accomplishment?


----------



## robbins.photo

unpopular said:


> This topic has been discussed ad nauseam. All the same points that will ever be made were made in the first few posts.
> 
> vfotog, you might want to let off the disagree button just a bit. Especially when you're clearly unwilling to upvote well considered responses, such as The Other Sharon's.



Oh dear.  My post scored a disagree.  I'm now spiraling into a funk.  I think I shall have to spend several hours staring into the dark abyss that is my soul struggling to find the will to live.

Oh hey.. Law and Order Marathon.  Never mind.  I'm good. 

Lol


----------



## robbins.photo

unpopular said:


> vfotog said:
> 
> 
> 
> "shooting above 400 ISO"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't shooting *under* ISO 400 more of an accomplishment?
Click to expand...


I guess you could get a different merit badge for that.  Not sure, I'm not on the committee.   Lol


----------



## unpopular

I'm going to give everyone in this thread a "like".

even vtog. because i'm just that generous.


----------



## Designer

unpopular said:


> This topic has been discussed ad nauseam.


No $hit, ajax!

@vphotog;

Perhaps that is why some of us veer off into the weeds whenever we see the same darn topic every other week.

Sure, keeping your own responses on topic is kind of nice, but if you can bridge the irrelevant responses, just ignore them.


----------



## vfotog

unpopular said:


> vfotog said:
> 
> 
> 
> "shooting above 400 ISO"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't shooting *under* ISO 400 more of an accomplishment?
Click to expand...



um, huh? I didn't say anything about ISO 400 in this thread. what are you referring to?


----------



## unpopular

quote mishap. that was to another post.

Sometimes when you use the quote button you have to remove tags to get it to format correctly. I removed the wrong tags and misquoted you.


----------



## vfotog

unpopular said:


> quote mishap. that was to another post.
> 
> Sometimes when you use the quote button you have to remove tags to get it to format correctly. I removed the wrong tags and misquoted you.




considering that it's your "error" and you and robbins.com both made fun of me for something that I NEVER said, the least you could do is apologize. bullying someone because they disagree with you is pathetic.


----------



## 480sparky




----------



## unpopular

And this. Because. Well. What else is there to say?


----------



## robbins.photo

vfotog said:


> unpopular said:
> 
> 
> 
> quote mishap. that was to another post.
> 
> Sometimes when you use the quote button you have to remove tags to get it to format correctly. I removed the wrong tags and misquoted you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> considering that it's your "error" and you and robbins.com both made fun of me for something that I NEVER said, the least you could do is apologize. bullying someone because they disagree with you is pathetic.
Click to expand...


Ok, well it's not robbins.com - but no worries, I won't throw a hissy and demand an apology.  Secondly, I never stated that you made the comment about shooting above 400 ISO, the point was that many beginning photographers start their journey by reading a lot of bad information on the internet  One of the most prevalent myth's out there is that you shouldn't every shoot above 200-400 ISO.  The point of that was that you seem to be advocating that beginners who lack certain skills and such knowledge do not deserve to be called photographers.

This of course is complete nonsense, since the word photographer has an accepted definition that has absolutely no distinction as to ones skill level.  So, I pointed out that if you and others feel that you must set some mystical bar and use a title to describe those you feel worthy then you need to make up a word that isn't already defined, you don't get to change the definition of words to suit your fancy.  So again, if you take issue with the definition, I suggest you call Merriam-Webster and take it up with them.

Now, as for this ridiculous "bullying" charge, I made one post in response to you because you were chastising me - for not discussing the topic.  I complied with that request and addressed the "topic" directly.  Nothing more, nothing less.  Now somehow I'm a bully for merely doing exactly what you requested I do in the first place.   If you don't wish to interact with me the answer is simple - don't call me out or respond to my posts, and I shall be more than happy to afford you the same courtesy.


----------



## Vtec44

So should we discuss the definition of a professional photographer?  hahaha j/k


----------



## vfotog

robbins.photo said:


> Ok, well it's not robbins.com - but no worries, I won't throw a hissy and demand an apology.  Secondly, I never stated that you made the comment about shooting above 400 ISO, the point was that many beginning photographers start their journey by reading a lot of bad information on the internet  One of the most prevalent myth's out there is that you shouldn't every shoot above 200-400 ISO.  The point of that was that you seem to be advocating that beginners who lack certain skills and such knowledge do not deserve to be called photographers.
> 
> This of course is complete nonsense, since the word photographer has an accepted definition that has absolutely no distinction as to ones skill level.  So, I pointed out that if you and others feel that you must set some mystical bar and use a title to describe those you feel worthy then you need to make up a word that isn't already defined, you don't get to change the definition of words to suit your fancy.  So again, if you take issue with the definition, I suggest you call Merriam-Webster and take it up with them.
> 
> Now, as for this ridiculous "bullying" charge, I made one post in response to you because you were chastising me - for not discussing the topic.  I complied with that request and addressed the "topic" directly.  Nothing more, nothing less.  Now somehow I'm a bully for merely doing exactly what you requested I do in the first place.   If you don't wish to interact with me the answer is simple - don't call me out or respond to my posts, and I shall be more than happy to afford you the same courtesy.



well, I am sorry that I misspelled your screen name. I ignored the various people who misspelled my name but getting yours wrong was Definitely unintentional.   As for your comment: "The point of that was that you seem to be advocating that beginners who lack certain skills and such knowledge do not deserve to be called photographers."  That's flat out untrue and actually pretty much the OPPOSITE of what I wrote. Did you not actually read the posts or are you intentionally making things up about my posts? I said nothing about requiring a certain skill level to be called a photographer because it's obvious to me that some people are confusing the word "photographer" with "professional photographer."  Here is what I wrote and it's nothing like what you said:



vfotog said:


> using a camera makes you a photographer. It doesn't mean you are a GOOD photographer. It doesn't mean you are an artistic photographer. It doesn't mean you are a professional photographer.



as for bullying, hmmm, piling on with others and making negative remarks about things I literally never said, like the 400 ISO stuff  that you posted on more than once, including the sarcastic merit badge post and rules, etc...   and then making up a totally opposite viewpoint on the original topic when my viewpoint was clearly different.  It's kinda pointless to make up things when anyone can go back and reread the thread and see it's not true.


----------



## oliverjackson

A photographer is someone who takes a photograph, by definition. A professional photographer is someone who make a living off it


----------



## thereyougo!

vfotog said:


> robbins.photo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, well it's not robbins.com - but no worries, I won't throw a hissy and demand an apology.  Secondly, I never stated that you made the comment about shooting above 400 ISO, the point was that many beginning photographers start their journey by reading a lot of bad information on the internet  One of the most prevalent myth's out there is that you shouldn't every shoot above 200-400 ISO.  The point of that was that you seem to be advocating that beginners who lack certain skills and such knowledge do not deserve to be called photographers.
> 
> This of course is complete nonsense, since the word photographer has an accepted definition that has absolutely no distinction as to ones skill level.  So, I pointed out that if you and others feel that you must set some mystical bar and use a title to describe those you feel worthy then you need to make up a word that isn't already defined, you don't get to change the definition of words to suit your fancy.  So again, if you take issue with the definition, I suggest you call Merriam-Webster and take it up with them.
> 
> Now, as for this ridiculous "bullying" charge, I made one post in response to you because you were chastising me - for not discussing the topic.  I complied with that request and addressed the "topic" directly.  Nothing more, nothing less.  Now somehow I'm a bully for merely doing exactly what you requested I do in the first place.   If you don't wish to interact with me the answer is simple - don't call me out or respond to my posts, and I shall be more than happy to afford you the same courtesy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> well, I am sorry that I misspelled your screen name. I ignored the various people who misspelled my name but getting yours wrong was Definitely unintentional.   As for your comment: "The point of that was that you seem to be advocating that beginners who lack certain skills and such knowledge do not deserve to be called photographers."  That's flat out untrue and actually pretty much the OPPOSITE of what I wrote. Did you not actually read the posts or are you intentionally making things up about my posts? I said nothing about requiring a certain skill level to be called a photographer because it's obvious to me that some people are confusing the word "photographer" with "professional photographer."  Here is what I wrote and it's nothing like what you said:
> 
> 
> 
> vfotog said:
> 
> 
> 
> using a camera makes you a photographer. It doesn't mean you are a GOOD photographer. It doesn't mean you are an artistic photographer. It doesn't mean you are a professional photographer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> as for bullying, hmmm, piling on with others and making negative remarks about things I literally never said, like the 400 ISO stuff  that you posted on more than once, including the sarcastic merit badge post and rules, etc...   and then making up a totally opposite viewpoint on the original topic when my viewpoint was clearly different.  It's kinda pointless to make up things when anyone can go back and reread the thread and see it's not true.
Click to expand...


I don't know how to deal with the 'bloat quoting' but I don't want to make the same mistake as unpopular so I'm going to let lit lie...

Sorry Vfotog, I think you're being a little melodramatic.  It's interesting that you demand an apology from people who have already explained their error, yet you do exactly the same.  You don't get the right to be all offended and hurt when you don't stay on the higher ground.  

The subject matter is a subjective one much discussed on this and other forums.  It was from this forum that I found the website You are Not a Photographer.  Amusing as that website can be and as misguided as some of their featured photo/fauxtographers can be, I can't help feeling how snobbish some of the comments are.  Mind you get the same thing in much of the artistic world.

Just look at a well used youtube video:






You will see plenty of people getting their face bent of shape over whether he is an opera singer or not.  Who the heck cares?  If you enjoy, it doesn't matter just enjoy the images/music.  If not look/listen to something that you DO enjoy.  People waste so much time moaning about what they don't like when they could be looking at things that they do, or just getting out and taking some photos...


----------



## runnah

Wow, what a silly thread.


----------



## 480sparky

I forget..... what were we talking about?


----------



## JustJazzie

480sparky said:


> I forget..... what were we talking about?


I'm Pretty sure it was bacon.


----------



## limr

480sparky said:


> I forget..... what were we talking about?



Cats.


----------



## robbins.photo

limr said:


> 480sparky said:
> 
> 
> 
> I forget..... what were we talking about?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cats.
Click to expand...


Bacon and Cats.. thank goodness.  Now those are worthy topics.  Where's Raj?  I think we might just need another Kitty War to salvage this one!

Lol.


----------



## robbins.photo

Vtec44 said:


> So should we discuss the definition of a professional photographer?  hahaha j/k



Maybe we should start with the definition of "rabble-rouser".  Lol.


----------



## 480sparky




----------



## limr

Two out of three cats agree.


----------



## 480sparky




----------



## snowbear

Kitty is bored with the thread.


 
Creative Commons CC0 1.0 Universal


----------



## unpopular

vfotog said:


> that it's your "error" and you and robbins.com both made fun of me for something that I NEVER said, the least you could do is apologize. bullying someone because they disagree with you is pathetic.



Uhm. Ok. Sorry.

I don't really remember making fun of you, though.... Could you quote me please? I'm kind of wondering if I said something you took the wrong way.

If you're talking about he ISO 400 comment, I wasn't making fun of you, nor of robbins (who, iirc made the original comment). Shooting under ISO 400 is more technically challenging than shooting over ISO 400 as your minimum exposure is limited.


----------



## unpopular

vfotog said:


> as for bullying, hmmm, piling on with others and making negative remarks about things I literally never said, like the 400 ISO stuff  that you posted on more than once



Do you think there is some kind of misquoting conspiracy going on here?


----------



## 480sparky

Ronald Reagan said:


> Jerry Garcia said:
> 
> 
> 
> as for bullying, hmmm, piling on with others and making negative remarks about things I literally never said, like the 400 ISO stuff  that you posted on more than once
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think there is some kind of misquoting conspiracy going on here?
Click to expand...


I think so.


----------



## Peeb

I started this threads with hopes for an interesting and stimulating discussion of photography.

Eight pages later, I must say:


----------



## 480sparky




----------



## unpopular

Can a t-rex safely operate an aircraft? I'd think those little arms would be awkward.


----------



## 480sparky

unpopular said:


> Can a t-rex safely operate an aircraft? I'd think those little arms would be awkward.



Calvin sure thinks so.  But Hobbes might disagree.


----------



## Peeb

It's a scientifically proven fact that a T-rex could not play a ukelele.

The debate over his ability to play the bass guitar rages on.


----------



## unpopular

Why am I imagining a gapped-toothed t-rex wearing sequins and big sunglasses with pink lenses playing the piano?


----------



## robbins.photo

Peeb said:


> It's a scientifically proven fact that a T-rex could not play a ukelele.
> 
> The debate over his ability to play the bass guitar rages on.



Hmmm....

T-Rex Playing Ukulele by Defy-Gravity-42 on DeviantArt


----------



## Derrel

unpopular said:
			
		

> Why am I imagining a gapped-toothed t-rex wearing sequins and big sunglasses with pink lenses playing the piano?



Sounds like all those _*old Elton John videos*_ you watch on YouTube have crept into your subconscious mind...


----------



## robbins.photo

Derrel said:


> unpopular said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why am I imagining a gapped-toothed t-rex wearing sequins and big sunglasses with pink lenses playing the piano?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like all those _*old Elton John videos*_ you watch on YouTube have crept into your subconscious mind...
Click to expand...


Elton John was actually a T-Rex?

Huh.

Ok but in retrospect that does explain.. a lot.


----------



## unpopular

robbins.photo said:


> T-Rex Playing Ukulele by Defy-Gravity-42 on DeviantArt



Clearly photoshopped. The shadows are all wrong.


----------



## 480sparky




----------



## Peeb

robbins.photo said:


> Peeb said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's a scientifically proven fact that a T-rex could not play a ukelele.
> 
> The debate over his ability to play the bass guitar rages on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm....
> 
> T-Rex Playing Ukulele by Defy-Gravity-42 on DeviantArt
Click to expand...

Corrected, I stand.


----------



## Peeb

By the way, as long as we have no bunnies with pancakes on their heads, I think this thread should be fine


----------



## 480sparky

Peeb said:


> By the way, as long as we have no bunnies with pancakes on their heads, I think this thread should be fine


----------



## Peeb

480sparky said:


> Peeb said:
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, as long as we have no bunnies with pancakes on their heads, I think this thread should be fine
Click to expand...

 You just had to go there, didn't you? 
 Always with the pancake bunnies…


----------



## 480sparky




----------



## ak_

If you dedicate much of your time to the craft, you are a photographer.


----------



## robbins.photo

480sparky said:


>



Would this qualify as a manifesto?

Lol


----------



## unpopular

This whole thread is my manifesto. When asked to do an artist statement, I'll just send a copy of this thread.


----------



## snowbear

unpopular said:


> This whole thread is my manifesto. When asked to do an artist statement, I'll just send a copy of this thread.


or print it out and use it to line the kitty litter box.


----------



## robbins.photo

unpopular said:


> This whole thread is my manifesto. When asked to do an artist statement, I'll just send a copy of this thread.





snowbear said:


> or print it out and use it to line the kitty litter box.



And then when asked for an artist statement, send them the entire box of kitty litter.

Brilliant!


----------



## unpopular

That's about what I feel like I am doing whenever I write an artist statement.


----------



## Gary A.

I differentiate between photographer and a person with a camera.  A photographer understands settings and lens FOV and uses all those variables to enhance the image ... to capture with the camera the image that is mentally seen prior to releasing the shutter. A person with a camera simply holds the camera, performs little adjustments and captures what the camera sees. I further differentiate between photographer and pro photographer. The pro photographer has the skill and experience to repeatedly and consistently capture the exceptional image day-in and day-out. The non-pro lacks consistency.


----------



## Vtec44

You guys are WAY over complicating something that's so insignificant.  lol


----------



## robbins.photo

Vtec44 said:


> You guys are WAY over complicating something that's so insignificant.  lol



By goodness, you'd think it was the internet or something.


----------



## Gary A.

Vtec44 said:


> You guys are WAY over complicating something that's so insignificant.  lol


Oh yeah, like you don't care how many angels and stand on the head of a pin ...


----------



## 480sparky

unpopular said:


> That's about what I feel like I am doing whenever I write an artist statement.



My artists' statememt; "I...... am an ar-TEEST!"


----------



## robbins.photo

480sparky said:


> unpopular said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's about what I feel like I am doing whenever I write an artist statement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My artists' statememt; "I...... am an ar-TEEST!"
Click to expand...


Which is then punctuated by the obligatory trashing of your hotel room.  

Something a box full of kitty litter might just come in handy for.. hmm..

Wow.. feel the synergy.    Lol


----------



## pixmedic




----------



## sm4him

It may have already been said in the span of eight or so pages of posts that I didn't bother to read--but I suspect that those 8 pages were likely filled with more of the same of what I *DID* read (sorry about that, minutes of my life that are no gone forever; I apologize for using you up on what I've read here in these past few moments).

Anyway: I don't bestow the title "Photographer" on anybody, except myself. I might ASK someone if they are a photographer, and if they say "yes," I might look at their photos and (silently) judge them to be a good/bad/mediocre photographer, but I'd leave it to the individual to actually deem themselves a Photographer.


----------



## pixmedic




----------



## JacaRanda

I am not a photographer but I do photography.  Dabble.

I'm actually uncomfortable calling myself a photographer; not sure why because I manually shoot in the raw.


----------



## pixmedic




----------



## limr

I'm an excellent photographer. Yeah. Definitely excellent. Time for Wapner.


----------



## pixmedic




----------



## limr

Photographer!


----------



## Designer

I'm a some-time producer of realistic two-dimensional images by using a light-sensitive recording mechanism.


----------



## robbins.photo

pixmedic said:


> View attachment 106633





limr said:


> Photographer!



Ok, you kids knock it off back there.  Don't make me stop this car.

Lol


----------



## pixmedic




----------



## limr

Uhhhhh, like, I thought this thread was, like, about cats?


----------



## limr

(@Peeb the poor OP of this train wreck of a thread...you're a trooper! True, there have been many threads about this subject, and true, there's something about the question "Define [insert word related to photography or art]" that makes the people on this forum go batsh1t crazy. However, I understand your interest in asking the question. I ponder these things myself from time to time and enjoy reading others' ideas. It's too bad this thread went off the rails, but you do seem to be taking it in stride. If you can't beat the crazies, you might as well enjoy the show  ]


----------



## pixmedic

limr said:


> Uhhhhh, like, I thought this thread was, like, about cats?


----------



## TheUniverse

Exatomundo!

Or however this is supposed to be spelled...


----------



## Designer

T H I S

Now you know.


----------



## limr

I remember when Maury Povich did real news.


----------



## TheUniverse

limr said:


> I remember when Maury Povich did real news.



Really?

Does that mean you are old?

Sad face...


----------



## 480sparky




----------



## pixmedic




----------



## 480sparky




----------



## pixmedic




----------



## 480sparky




----------



## pixmedic




----------



## 480sparky




----------



## pixmedic




----------



## wanderer86

unpopular said:


> Amateurs take pictures of things
> Professionals (photographers) take pictures of light
> Artists take pictures of ideas



I can agree  
I think it's more that while everyone can be a photographer, an amateur is someone who might do more of a "spray and pray" technique while they're learning the ropes. A "professional" photographer is one who has studied different techniques and refined his or her style. In the end everyone is a photographer, it's just the caliber of photographer that you are.


----------



## wanderer86

pixmedic said:


> View attachment 106641



now THAT was funny


----------



## Designer

I think we may have chased off vphotog. 

Now doesn't that make you sad?


----------



## snowbear

Purple.


----------



## snowbear

snowbear said:


> Purple.


Label maker.


----------



## snowbear

snowbear said:


> snowbear said:
> 
> 
> 
> Purple.
> 
> 
> 
> Label maker.
Click to expand...

Present participle.


----------



## snowbear

snowbear said:


> snowbear said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> snowbear said:
> 
> 
> 
> Purple.
> 
> 
> 
> Label maker.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Present participle.
Click to expand...


Just a few more off-topic posts from His Chilliness, the analogous bear.


----------



## snowbear

Designer said:


> I think we may have chased off vphotog.
> 
> Now doesn't that make you sad?


I think he or she just put the lot of us on ignore.  Probably a smart thing, in the end.


----------



## 480sparky




----------

