# Am I Ready to Start Selling?



## TheBromad (Oct 18, 2015)

I did my first senior picture shoot for a family friend today and here are the results....


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## soufiej (Oct 18, 2015)

If someone is willing to buy, then you need to decide whether you want to sell.


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## tirediron (Oct 18, 2015)

Yep... if people are ready to give you money, then you're ready to start selling.  That said, the images you've posted here aren't quite in the category I would expect for professional images.  They seem a bit soft, and almost all of them suffer from 'racoon eyes', that is, very dark eye sockets which is usually the result of lack of supplemental light.  I would practice up a bit more before hanging out a shingle.


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## soufiej (Oct 18, 2015)

tirediron said:


> I would practice up a bit more before hanging out a shingle.




Yeah, that's a good way to put it.


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## TheBromad (Oct 18, 2015)

tirediron said:


> Yep... if people are ready to give you money, then you're ready to start selling.  That said, the images you've posted here aren't quite in the category I would expect for professional images.  They seem a bit soft, and almost all of them suffer from 'racoon eyes', that is, very dark eye sockets which is usually the result of lack of supplemental light.  I would practice up a bit more before hanging out a shingle.


Would a light reflector help?


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## tirediron (Oct 18, 2015)

TheBromad said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> > Yep... if people are ready to give you money, then you're ready to start selling.  That said, the images you've posted here aren't quite in the category I would expect for professional images.  They seem a bit soft, and almost all of them suffer from 'racoon eyes', that is, very dark eye sockets which is usually the result of lack of supplemental light.  I would practice up a bit more before hanging out a shingle.
> ...


It might, in certain situations, but the thing that will help most is learning and using strobed light.  Photography is all about the control of light, and until they put a dimmer on the sun, a speedlight, or studio strobe will almost always make life easier.


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## soufiej (Oct 18, 2015)

Tirediron is far more adept at the technicalities of photography then I am but you are trying to take these shots using only natural light.  

IMO you need to research the "quality of light".  

Then you need to do some work understanding available natural light.  A reflector is useful but generally only when you have an assistant to position and hold the reflector.  

Are you ready to pay an assistant?

I would suggest you begin with knowing how fill flash changes an image.


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## The_Traveler (Oct 18, 2015)

these are all pretty contrasty which may be your style but there are large burnt out areas in his face and lots of color noise.
In some of these his head is uncomfortably close to the margin that


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## Braineack (Oct 19, 2015)

I not a huge fan of the processing myself either, but it seems to be trendy.

I like the lighting in the first -- the rest all suffer from racoon eyes.

My biggest issues is that all the images seem to lack any sharpness and detail--your lens seems to render like mush.  I'd personally have tossed every single one of these because they looked out of focus.


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## astroNikon (Oct 19, 2015)

^^ as mentioned above.
On #2 the focus spot seems to have been on his left hand, left front of leg.  And I assume you used a shallow DOF on the shots as the face and shirt emblem are OOF.

On # 8 the same issue.  Look at the fence links and watch them go from OOF to In-Focus just before the hand then fall OOF again.

Maybe learn a bit more on how to use your camera's focusing system and spot focus on ppl's eyes and using the correct DOF/Aperture.  Maybe your shutter speed was a bit too slow for the situation too?

Your photos have no EXIF data to help us evaluate.
and remove the UV filter if you are using one.


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## sabbath999 (Oct 19, 2015)

I gotta be honest, and I mean no offense or disrespect here... but if you are asking if your images are good enough to sell in a BEGINNER'S forum, I would say you are probably not there yet without even looking.

Honestly, your images aren't sharp enough. I don't mean to be a jerk, I am just saying that you need to work on that a bit more before reaching a "sales" level... and by sharp, I don't mean moving the sharpening lever all the way to the right in Lightroom, I mean actually making the faces (the eye regions especially) TACK sharp. 

Since you asked.


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## vintagesnaps (Oct 19, 2015)

You seem to have had some good ideas for portraits outdoors, I'd just watch in a couple where he seems to be slumping a little probably because he's tall and had been sitting for some time. You got a great smile in the first one and that's the one I like the best, I'd maybe crop the left side some to eliminate or at least minimize the blur.

It looks like you need to get in more practice with using the camera to make sure the focus is spot on and that you're getting proper exposures. Keep learning the technical aspects and get lots of practice with your camera - go out there and take pictures on your own to make sure you're getting good quality photos before you bring subjects/clients into it. Seems like you have potential if you keep working at it.


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## TheBromad (Oct 19, 2015)

Thanks for the input guys! I'm definitely going to buy a speed light and practice with it. And practice on my focusing also. It was just hard to tell shooting at such a shallow DoF.

btw these were shot on my t3i with a 55mm 1.8

The some of the shots were at 1600 iso because I wasn't paying attention (my mistake) and then I switched to iso 400 for the rest.

I'll get the hang of it eventually lol


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## KmH (Oct 19, 2015)

Most 50 mm f/1.8 lenses (even expensive ones) don't deliver their sharpest focus at f/1.8.
Be sure to stop the lens down a couple of stops, to f/3.5 or smaller (f/5.6 is a smaller aperture than f/3.5), to get your 50 mm f/1.8 lens to where it's sweet spot range of sharp lens apertures starts.

A visual art truism is - Light advances, dark recedes - which applied to portrait photos means your subject should be some lighting ratio brighter than the rest of the image frame. Today we call that 'pop', or a main subject that is well separated, in a variety of ways, from the rest of the scene.
Using flash lets you control the flash exposure separately from the ambient light exposure so you can make your subject a lighting ratio brighter than the rest of the scene.


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## vintagesnaps (Oct 19, 2015)

I was thinking along the same lines in a way as far as aperture - you have some scenic backgrounds, why limit the depth of field so much? You'd want to bring the viewer's attention to the subject and not overpower the subject with all the colorful foliage, but with the beautiful fall colors I'd want to use that and take that into consideration taking photos this time of year.


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## astroNikon (Oct 19, 2015)

Learn about Depth of Field  ==> Understanding Depth of Field in Photography

And test using inanimate objects (stuffed animals, etc) .  For instance someone standing up is going to have a different depth than then sitting down with their legs going 3-4 feet in front of them. 
You can then use a ruler and calculate the Depth Of Field (DOF) which is sharp at the focus point, and goes OOF from a certain depth in front of and behind that point  ==> A Flexible Depth of Field Calculator

I've learned that just because you have f/1.8 (or f/2.8, f/1.4) doesn't necessarily mean you should be using that aperture.  Normal portraits are best at f/5.6 for one person, then vary from there depending upon distance to subject and what you are after.

Keep practicing it gets easier.


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## Braineack (Oct 19, 2015)

its not even the DOF, they just lack any sharpness or detail whatsoever.


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## sabbath999 (Oct 19, 2015)

TheBromad said:


> The some of the shots were at 1600 iso because I wasn't paying attention (my mistake) and then I switched to iso 400 for the rest.
> 
> I'll get the hang of it eventually lol



Take a tip from a guy who shot professionally for 15 years (I got tired of the hassle, now I just shoot for fun)...

LISTS are your friend.

There is a reason why airline pilots do a pre-flight checklist EVERY SINGLE TIME, and it's not because they are careless... rather, it's because it's so darned easy to miss one fiddly little setting.

I used to have a set of lists I would carry with me... I professionally shot in the days of film but photography is still the same basic stuff...

Make a "start up list", and put this on it.

Before I go:

Camera: ____
Card: ____
Flash/Flashes: _____
Off Camera Triggers: ____
Light Modifiers: ____ 
Lenses: _____
Spare Battery?: _____
Battery Charged?: ____
Model Release Signed?: ____ (yes, even for seniors, do this... )

When I get there:

Card in camera?: _____
FORMATE CARD: _____
SET ISO: _____
SET APERTURE: ____
SET WHITE BALANCE: ____
CHECK QUALITY SETTING SET TO RAW & JPEG: ___ (one of these days that may save your ass, by the way... I know a lot of guys just shoot RAW but this can be HANDY)

Add in your own, this is just a sample.

When shooting, I would always do a "shot list" that I would go over with the client before-hand to make sure we had all the shots they wanted to do.

This shots list is CRITICAL when doing events like weddings, because of the liability aspect. This list will be extensive, but make sure you shoot EVERY one that is on it.

Next, if you want to be a professional, go about it the right way. Start a business (even if it's just a PO Box business), and get insurance. If somebody gets hurt on your shoot, it is YOUR ass hanging out in the breeze. NEVER do a shoot for money without insurance. You can join the PPA and get their insurance for not much money, so do that at least.

Taking money for pictures means you are a professional. Whether you are a good professional or a crappy one is up to you.


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## TheBromad (Oct 19, 2015)

Braineack said:


> its not even the DOF, they just lack any sharpness or detail whatsoever.


So how do I fix that?


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## TheBromad (Oct 19, 2015)

sabbath999 said:


> TheBromad said:
> 
> 
> > The some of the shots were at 1600 iso because I wasn't paying attention (my mistake) and then I switched to iso 400 for the rest.
> ...


Thanks for the tips man, I really appreciate it!


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## Designer (Oct 19, 2015)

TheBromad said:


> And practice on my focusing also. It was just hard to tell shooting at such a shallow DoF.l


Your camera is capable of doing the focusing, so you shouldn't have to do it yourself.


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## Designer (Oct 19, 2015)

TheBromad said:


> Braineack said:
> 
> 
> > its not even the DOF, they just lack any sharpness or detail whatsoever.
> ...


Is there anything on the front of your lens? Such as a filter, perhaps?


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## Undercover.Nerd (Oct 19, 2015)

First off, great photos! The colors are pretty darn awesome if I do say so myself!

One thing I notice, and I see others chatting about it, is how soft your subject is. Although he's a good looking dude, it's not the only thing that will give you business! I can tell your aperture is very wide because, as you can see in the photo where he's sitting and has a dark shirt on, his shoes are more in focus than his face. This is because the depth of field is very narrow and his feet are closer to you.

You have an awesome background so step up the aperture closer to the lens's sweet spot and let the background pop as well! Be sure you focus on his eyes so you can get max clarity of the face.

Keep up the good work! One small adjustment and I'm certain others will buy!


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## TheBromad (Oct 19, 2015)

Designer said:


> TheBromad said:
> 
> 
> > Braineack said:
> ...


Nope nothing lol


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## TheBromad (Oct 19, 2015)

Undercover.Nerd said:


> First off, great photos! The colors are pretty darn awesome if I do say so myself!
> 
> One thing I notice, and I see others chatting about it, is how soft your subject is. Although he's a good looking dude, it's not the only thing that will give you business! I can tell your aperture is very wide because, as you can see in the photo where he's sitting and has a dark shirt on, his shoes are more in focus than his face. This is because the depth of field is very narrow and his feet are closer to you.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the super positive criticism, it means a lot! And thanks for the compliments as well!


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## Designer (Oct 19, 2015)

TheBromad said:


> Nope nothing lol


Then it could be your camera or lens or the combination of them not working properly.  Do you have a camera repair shop nearby?


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## TheBromad (Oct 19, 2015)

Designer said:


> TheBromad said:
> 
> 
> > Nope nothing lol
> ...


Within 50 miles yeah


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## vintagesnaps (Oct 19, 2015)

In at least one of the photos to me the shoes looked more sharply in focus than the face. I don't know how you focused but wonder if that had anything to do with it.


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## Derrel (Oct 19, 2015)

I did not see the photos not okay to edit status on these. But trust me, these can be improved quite a bit through some judicious editing, involving burning down some of the bright areas (hands,facial planes,ears), as well as darkening some of the background areas, and by selectively sharpening some areas of the images.


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## astroNikon (Oct 19, 2015)

vintagesnaps said:


> In at least one of the photos to me the shoes looked more sharply in focus than the face. I don't know how you focused but wonder if that had anything to do with it.


Yes I noticed that too in the one when the subject is sitting on the rocks with his legs/feet forward.   His shoes were in focus.

I think his AF Point Selection mode is in Automatic.  He needs to learn how to set it to Manual then use the AF Point on the eyes with a proper DOF and fast enough shutter say above 1/125 to prevent movement blur ==> Set an Autofocus Point on a Canon Rebel T3 Series Camera - For Dummies


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## Scatterbrained (Oct 19, 2015)

Personally I think you have a great start here.  You have an excellent locations,  great colors (not the subjects skin however), good poses and decent composition.  The subject is posed well with non branded, non patterned clothing (something lots of people don't think of) and I don't see anything egregious like trees growing out of heads, arms cut off at the wrist, etc. 

    As has been pointed out however, the focus. . . well. . . there is none.    I won't beat this to death other than to say you've received some solid advice.  Stop the lens down a bit (f/1.8 is too shallow for a headshot, really, it is), use your AF, and try to avoid focus/recompose techniques in close quarters and/or with shallow DOF.  If you need to, shoot loose and crop in post.   

The colors here are nice, but the skin tones are awful.  He looks like he's contracted some sort of purple jaundice.  Be mindful when editing colors that those edits can have an adverse effect on skin tones.  Personally I use Dan Margulis' CMYK technique (link goes to an introductory article) for checking and correcting skin tones.   Tones that look ok on the screen may not look ok in print, so it's good to take the time to ensure you get them right.   It also helps to have at least a rudimentary color managed workflow; i.e. calibrate your monitor .


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## TheBromad (Oct 19, 2015)

Scatterbrained said:


> Personally I think you have a great start here.  You have an excellent locations,  great colors (not the subjects skin however), good poses and decent composition.  The subject is posed well with non branded, non patterned clothing (something lots of people don't think of) and I don't see anything egregious like trees growing out of heads, arms cut off at the wrist, etc.
> 
> As has been pointed out however, the focus. . . well. . . there is none.    I won't beat this to death other than to say you've received some solid advice.  Stop the lens down a bit (f/1.8 is too shallow for a headshot, really, it is), use your AF, and try to avoid focus/recompose techniques in close quarters and/or with shallow DOF.  If you need to, shoot loose and crop in post.
> 
> The colors here are nice, but the skin tones are awful.  He looks like he's contracted some sort of purple jaundice.  Be mindful when editing colors that those edits can have an adverse effect on skin tones.  Personally I use Dan Margulis' CMYK technique (link goes to an introductory article) for checking and correcting skin tones.   Tones that look ok on the screen may not look ok in print, so it's good to take the time to ensure you get them right.   It also helps to have at least a rudimentary color managed workflow; i.e. calibrate your monitor .


Thanks man, I noticed the skin too and was trying to fix it.... I still have some tweaking to do on these so I'm going to spend a little more time on that.... I really appreciate the feedback!


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## Derrel (Oct 19, 2015)

I went through these earlier and edited them by dodging and burning and applying some sharpening and clarity boost, and also some edge vignettes...they looked better.


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## TheBromad (Oct 19, 2015)

Derrel said:


> I went through these earlier and edited them by dodging and burning and applying some sharpening and clarity boost, and also some edge vignettes...they looked better.


Awesome could you show me?


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## Derrel (Oct 19, 2015)

Do you want me to post the edits?


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## unpopular (Oct 20, 2015)

I'm seeing a LOT of posterization. 

My guess is you're under exposing and/or shooting or editing in JPG with heavy post work. I think you need to work on your overall IQ before selling.


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## TheStupidForeigner (Oct 20, 2015)

The pictures are ok but I felt they were all a bit similar too each other. 

On top of what other people have said maybe you could get a cheap yongnuo flash for around $30 to add some more options and make the subject stand out more, reflector also works but I like the drama a speedlight gives. 

I did a similar shoot a few days ago and also put a blue gel ($1 on ebay) on my flash then counter with the white balance to bring out the red in the leaves and make the subject stand out even more


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## astroNikon (Oct 20, 2015)

TheBromad said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> > I went through these earlier and edited them by dodging and burning and applying some sharpening and clarity boost, and also some edge vignettes...they looked better.
> ...


You profile, if you look under your Avatar states "Photos NOT OK to edit"
So even though he posted them he pulled them to comply with your profile about photos. You should change that if you want to see them again.

I think he did a fantastic job on them


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## ClaptonsGhost (Oct 20, 2015)

On the bright side, your eye for composition is pretty good. But, yeah, I hate the post processing on these.


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## TheBromad (Oct 20, 2015)

Derrel said:


> Do you want me to post the edits?


Sure that's fine with me


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## Derrel (Oct 20, 2015)

Image 1 needed some sharpening applied to the subject, and a bit of darkening of the frame edges, as well as burning in on his face and ears. Image 9 needed the background burned down a bit. Same with image 3, with the falling leaves--it had bright areas that I burned down in Lightroom, freehand, just using a brush and the burn tool.


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## TheBromad (Oct 20, 2015)

Derrel said:


> Image 1 needed some sharpening applied to the subject, and a bit of darkening of the frame edges, as well as burning in on his face and ears. Image 9 needed the background burned down a bit. Same with image 3, with the falling leaves--it had bright areas that I burned down in Lightroom, freehand, just using a brush and the burn tool.


What do you use for post?


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## Derrel (Oct 20, 2015)

These days I use Lightroom almost exclusively. It is very rare that I need to go into Photoshop CC on a portrait image. Some of your images were tricky to edit because they were already converted to 8-bit JPEG files, so the shadows and highlights did not have the malleability of a full bit-depth raw image file.


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## TheBromad (Oct 20, 2015)

Derrel said:


> These days I use Lightroom almost exclusively. It is very rare that I need to go into Photoshop CC on a portrait image. Some of your images were tricky to edit because they were already converted to 8-bit JPEG files, so the shadows and highlights did not have the malleability of a full bit-depth raw image file.


Yeah I shot them in raw and I tried using rawtherapy but I'm not impressed with it and was thinking of buying Lightroom. Does Adobe do subscriptions now or can I buy the software at one price?


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## JacaRanda (Oct 20, 2015)

Lightroom and Photoshop | Adobe Creative Cloud Photography plan


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## TrolleySwag (Oct 20, 2015)

I'm on my phone so I can't see to high res but I like the composition, but I'm going to assume the focus is a bit off like what has been noticed. Somebody mentioned take off the uv filter, does that make a big difference?


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## Designer (Oct 20, 2015)

TrolleySwag said:


> Somebody mentioned take off the uv filter, does that make a big difference?


Many newbs walk out of the store with a cheap (not very good) UV filter that the sales person has suggested they keep on the front of the lens at all times.  

After about a year the newbs can't seem to get their photos sharp enough so then we ask if they are using some kind of filter on the front.  Chances are good that they are keeping one on there "for protection", and after they work up the courage to remove it, their photographs start looking sharper.


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## TheBromad (Oct 20, 2015)

JacaRanda said:


> Lightroom and Photoshop | Adobe Creative Cloud Photography plan


I figured, I hate that Adobe switched to subscriptions lol is it worth it?


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## astroNikon (Oct 20, 2015)

TheBromad said:


> JacaRanda said:
> 
> 
> > Lightroom and Photoshop | Adobe Creative Cloud Photography plan
> ...


you don't have to use the subscription but you have to dig around to find the products separately though, of course, at a higher initial price (but once).

If you go to the Very Bottom on the right, is the link to purchase the desktop LightRoom v6 version only for $149.00 in the US ==> Digital photography software | Download free Adobe Photoshop Lightroom CC trial


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## JacaRanda (Oct 20, 2015)

Understand that if you purchase the desktop version you dont get photoshop nor any of the major updates included with subscriptions.  Only you can determine if it's worth it.


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## Scatterbrained (Oct 20, 2015)

JacaRanda said:


> Understand that if you purchase the desktop version you dont get photoshop nor any of the major updates included with subscriptions.  Only you can determine if it's worth it.


It's a big chunk of change up front for sure, but at least then you can choose_ not_ to upgrade right away.  Let those other guys sort out all of the bugs.


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## JacaRanda (Oct 20, 2015)

Scatterbrained said:


> JacaRanda said:
> 
> 
> > Understand that if you purchase the desktop version you dont get photoshop nor any of the major updates included with subscriptions.  Only you can determine if it's worth it.
> ...



Haaa very true.  I also think; if an emergency happens and I can't afford the $9.99, I can just stop my monthly and use DPP for a while.


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## rap77oh (Oct 27, 2015)

What are you focusing on in the images? I mean this literally. Where are you putting the focus point the camera is using? If you are on auto and it is selecting the focus point (my guess is that is what is happening), then the camera might pick his shoe, a tree, the fence, etc. That would explain the randomness to the focus in these shots. 

There are different ways to handle focusing (some people love to use the center point and focus recompose and others pick the closes AF point to the thing they want in focus, for portraits that is generally the closest eye, and use that point) so play around with that. 

I think you have a "style" people will buy and you generally have a grasp on framing the shot. Whether a bunch of photographers like the processing or whatever is almost irrelevant. Do parents and high school seniors like it? That's who you are selling to. Just get the focus and lighting (and/or post processing) dialed in and I think you could get some clients.


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## beckylynne (Oct 27, 2015)

TheBromad said:


> Thanks for the input guys! I'm definitely going to buy a speed light and practice with it. And practice on my focusing also. It was just hard to tell shooting at such a shallow DoF.
> 
> btw these were shot on my t3i with a 55mm 1.8
> 
> ...


 It's a lot to remember!  You dropped down your f stop trying to get all the available light you could and that's where most of the focus issues come from.  It's a mistake I make more than I wish I did even when I KNOW that I'm making it.  I thought your poses and where you chose to do the shoot were great.  The technical part will come with a ton of practice.  Keep shooting and if people want to shoot you money for your time then let them.  I'm sure this guy will love his photos regardless of the technical issues.


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## TheBromad (Oct 27, 2015)

rap77oh said:


> What are you focusing on in the images? I mean this literally. Where are you putting the focus point the camera is using? If you are on auto and it is selecting the focus point (my guess is that is what is happening), then the camera might pick his shoe, a tree, the fence, etc. That would explain the randomness to the focus in these shots.
> 
> There are different ways to handle focusing (some people love to use the center point and focus recompose and others pick the closes AF point to the thing they want in focus, for portraits that is generally the closest eye, and use that point) so play around with that.
> 
> I think you have a "style" people will buy and you generally have a grasp on framing the shot. Whether a bunch of photographers like the processing or whatever is almost irrelevant. Do parents and high school seniors like it? That's who you are selling to. Just get the focus and lighting (and/or post processing) dialed in and I think you could get some clients.


I actually went back in to re edit them and paid way more attention to what I was doing in post, I think they turned out 100x better! Here are 2 of them for example...


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