# Why should a 'Professional Photographer" have an Education in Photography?



## ottor (Dec 2, 2012)

Just met a photographer at an Artists Market ... He's been in Photography for about 8 years now, and has never taken any formal classes.  He's been taking Wedding Photos for the last 2 years.  We got talking about what kind of education he has in Photography, and he said he's never thought of any education.. he's doing fine without it.

I've seen some of his wedding photos, and .... he's pretty good.  As some would say, 'he has a good eye'.   I asked him since he was fairly young, would he consider taking some formal classes - he said 'Why should I - Why spend thousands of dollars for a piece of paper, and I can't charge any more than I do now??'

I'm meeting him for lunch in a while, and since that's almost all we talked about, this subject may come up again - One of the first things I thought of was the 'Business' end of photography - It's probable that he could run his business a little better if he had a business education.  Any other reasons that a Professional Photographer should have some formal training if he's doing "ok" without it ??


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## TATTRAT (Dec 2, 2012)

If he feels he is doing ok, is getting gigs, is "not bad" by your own admission, why should it be an issue if he has a piece of paper or not? A LOT of the worlds best, including the forefathers of photography, schooling/education (when it came to photography), was not very high on the priority list.

Some people "have it". Are there things he could learn to enhance what he is already doing? Sure. Are thos things he could learn worth spending the money on? Who knows, the www is SO full of info now days, that I am sure if he had a question, or wanted to learn/adapt a new technique, he could find all the answers he needs on the www without spending a dime.

When clients look at a portfolio, they are looking at the pudding, where the PROOF is. If the results are there, I am sure having that piece of paper wouldn't factor in at all, if they like his work and want to secure his services.

Like in my industry (food and beverage/restaurant and hospitality), that paper isn't a deal breaker. It's not mandatory to have to hold a position. It's lunch and dinner, not life and death. .. . like photography, it isn't saving lives. While some formal training may be beneficial, if he feels it doesn't matter and isn't hindering his time on this Earth, then what's it matter, and why is it a pressing issue? 

I guess I should really have prefaced all of this with: If he never intended on photography being a career, maybe that's why he didn't pursue more schooling prior. Maybe he fell into a hobby that happened to turn out to make him a little scratch on the side. Does he have a degree, or did he go to school for something OTHER than "the arts"?


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## rexbobcat (Dec 2, 2012)

Because if I ever don't want to do photography and want to get a more "comfortable" job someday, it's kind of hard.

"So sir, you don't have a degree." 

"Well, no, but I'm a good photographer!"

"...But you don't have a degree..."

This is assuming that or does not get a degree in photography.  Lol


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## cgipson1 (Dec 2, 2012)

Many people have businesses based on skills learned on the job, or self-taught. And specific formal education is not needed for many skillsets. A business degree can always be helpful though to these types, as many of the business skills needed to successfully run a business, may have nothing to do with the skills they base the business on. Not saying it is absolutely necessary, but it would be helpful. 

I am speaking from experience. I owned a studio for a number of years, and have also had several successful consulting businesses... that I had to learn how to run the hard way. Not having knowledge of basic business skills cost me a lot of time and money... time I could have been spending with clients.


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## KmH (Dec 3, 2012)

Define 'doing OK', in the context of business and personal income from having a retail photography business. 

Most business owners not trained in running, maintaining, marketing, promoting a business don't make as much money as they could.
Salesmanship skills are also important, particularly for retail photographers.

As an example, all the retail photographers that do online proofing instead of proofing in person usually leave a lot of money on the table.


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## Designer (Dec 3, 2012)

ottor said:


> Any other reasons that a Professional Photographer should have some formal training if he's doing "ok" without it ??



Besides learning the business side, which will help him earn a profit and retain some of it, a formal "Fine Arts" degree might help someone learn to "see" an artful composition, discern bad from good, and be able to communicate ideas using artistic expression.

The many threads already discussed on this forum have nearly always steered the neophyte toward studying something in business rather than fine arts.  A fine arts degree may or may not qualify someone to work in the fast food industry.


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## manaheim (Dec 3, 2012)

From what I've seen and read "photography degrees" don't give you business management instruction.  Business management degrees do.  He doesn't probably need the former whereas the latter is likely useful.

Whatever the case... Why do YOU care what HE does?


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## CCericola (Dec 3, 2012)

What's awesome about being an artist is that there is no formal degree requirement. Not like a doctor or a lawyer, etc... Some people need a formal education, some do great as a apprentice, some are self taught. There is no right or wrong answer. Not all artists need business degrees. It all depends on what they specialize in. I really wanted to go to college. I knew I wanted to do something in art, it wasn't until I was in college that I took on photography. I had a great professor and I fell in love with retail photography so I promptly added a business minor from advice I was given. I know a bit but I know my brain just doesn't work the way it should for business so I have a business manager. To each their own.


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## jamesbjenkins (Dec 3, 2012)

What on Earth can one who wants to be an amazing photographer gain from an accredited photography program that can't be learned must faster and less expensively by buying a quality entry-level DSLR, volunteering/interning with a seasoned pro and making diligent use of the best classroom the world has ever known: The Internet?

The best education in an artistic field like photography is an apprenticeship of some sort, not sitting in a university classroom for 120 credit hours. Even the business side of photography can be properly learned provided you choose the right teacher.

I don't have one ounce of formal photography education, but I've taught myself from scratch since 2008 using the virtually limitless resources of the internet (including several forums like TPF, Fred Miranda and others)...


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## Steve5D (Dec 3, 2012)

I'd be interested to know the income difference for a wedding photographer with a degree and one without, assuming both are shooting regularly and earning the majority of their income through wedding shoots.

I can see an ad agency or a magazine wanting someone to have a degree, but how does it impact the paycheck?


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## cannpope (Dec 3, 2012)

He really doesn't need photography classes, BUT he does need some education in business.   A *successful* business is 90% smart business sense and 10% good photography skills.


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## ottor (Dec 3, 2012)

manaheim said:


> From what I've seen and read "photography degrees" don't give you business management instruction.  Business management degrees do.  He doesn't probably need the former whereas the latter is likely useful.
> 
> Whatever the case... Why do YOU care what HE does?



Actually, I don't give a rats ass what he does.  I havent' known this person for any length of time, and have no feelings either way what his decisions are based on.  My post was to gather some vaired opinions on the topic, as we're sure to bring it up again in the near future.  I just wanted some input from all types of those in the Photography arena.  

I have a Masters Degree, however not in photography.  I'm 66, retired, and thinking of going back to school and taking some classes in the arts.  I'm Pro-Education in almost any field, and was just wondering what this persons feeling were about getting a more diverse input to his, now, profession.  My assumption was that a degree in one of the photography fields would certainly include how to run a business, but if I'm wrong, I appreciate the correction.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Dec 3, 2012)

Listen to the clerk at Bestbuy.  A good kit DSLR, big watermark, and facebook page and you're set!


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## Designer (Dec 3, 2012)

ottor said:


> My assumption was that a degree in one of the photography fields would certainly include how to run a business, but if I'm wrong, I appreciate the correction.



I don't know what they teach in "photography school".  Most likely some business classes, but I think it would depend on the school.  You can check this out online by consulting each school's curriculum.  

Let us know what you find out.


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## John27 (Dec 4, 2012)

Many professions require continuing education throughout the career.  Your doctor has to take several hours each year to maintain their license.  I think the same approach could transfer to full time professional photographers as well, taking a few classes, read a few books, attend a workshop or seminar, trying to do it a few times each year is probably a great idea to keep skills honed and to stay on top of your game.  A couple thousand dollars a year towards 'education' might not be a bad line item for your budget.  Again, new books, a workshop here or there, a class.  Whether on photography, or business.  Practice, experience, and talent sure seem important, but I have a hard time thinking there is a photographer out there with nothing to learn.


I'm not a professional photographer nor do I have any desire to be (My wife does though, perhaps in a few years), BUT, it seems to me like a business degree would be more essential to a self-employed photographer.  So many doctors fail in private practice because medicine doesn't teach business, but others succeed because they had the foresight to take classes and seminars on business, OR got business degrees!  My doctor got his bachelors in business before going to medical school, pretty smart I think!


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