# Loss leaders and why shooting for free has made me  a lot of money!



## tirediron (Feb 2, 2017)

As most of you know I've been working on my Veteran's Portrait Project for a number of years now and have created many portraits for local Veterans.  The premise is simple:  Any serving or retired member of the Canadian Armed Forces who sits for me will receive a free portrait session and a complimentary 8x10 print of their choice from that session.  During these sessions I do absolutely NO selling.  I don't suggest or recommend additional prints or offer discounts etc.  Typically, about a third of clients ask if they can purchase additional prints.  I tell them that they certainly can, and give them prices for standard sizes.  

Once they receive their print, at least half immediately place an additional order; usually not a large one, typically <$100, and about half of those place a second order usually 2-3 months later for at least $100 - $150.  As well, close to a third of those who don't order immediately call me within six weeks to place an order in the $100 - $150 range.  

While that in and of itself is not a huge amount of money it does make a venture that is done with the intent of saying, "Thank-you" a profitable one.  What is better however is that in a number of cases, this has led to large jobs, including business portraits for CEOs, large events, and weddings.  

The moral of the story is:  Don't be afraid to shoot for free, BUT always make sure that it's clear why you are shooting for free.  If people think you're doing it for the heck of it, you will quickly become 'that guy who does free portraits (or events, or whatever)' and getting paid work will be very difficult.  If on the other hand you have a cause and purpose to your free work, and you let the clients come to you with the paid work, it can be very profitable indeed!


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## mmaria (Feb 3, 2017)

tirediron said:


> The moral of the story is:  Don't be afraid to shoot for free, BUT always make sure that it's clear why you are shooting for free.  If people think you're doing it for the heck of it, you will quickly become 'that guy who does free portraits (or events, or whatever)' and getting paid work will be very difficult.  If on the other hand you have a cause and purpose to your free work, and you let the clients come to you with the paid work, it can be very profitable indeed!


yup!
Struggling with this...


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## tirediron (Feb 3, 2017)

mmaria said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> > The moral of the story is:  Don't be afraid to shoot for free, BUT always make sure that it's clear why you are shooting for free.  If people think you're doing it for the heck of it, you will quickly become 'that guy who does free portraits (or events, or whatever)' and getting paid work will be very difficult.  If on the other hand you have a cause and purpose to your free work, and you let the clients come to you with the paid work, it can be very profitable indeed!
> ...


Try the old, "I want to try a new lighting/posing/whatever idea and was wondering if you'd mind sitting for me" idea.  This way people think they're doing you a favour, so of course you wouldn't charge, because they're helping you with research.  When they come to you however, there is no such expectation.


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## Hermes1 (Feb 3, 2017)

tirediron said:


> As most of you know I've been working on my Veteran's Portrait Project for a number of years now and have created many portraits for local Veterans.  The premise is simple:  Any serving or retired member of the Canadian Armed Forces who sits for me will receive a free portrait session and a complimentary 8x10 print of their choice from that session.  During these sessions I do absolutely NO selling.  I don't suggest or recommend additional prints or offer discounts etc.  Typically, about a third of clients ask if they can purchase additional prints.  I tell them that they certainly can, and give them prices for standard sizes.
> 
> Once they receive their print, at least half immediately place an additional order; usually not a large one, typically <$100, and about half of those place a second order usually 2-3 months later for at least $100 - $150.  As well, close to a third of those who don't order immediately call me within six weeks to place an order in the $100 - $150 range.
> 
> ...



First, a very nice and worthwhile project you have embarked on, kudos.  You are so correct on making it clear why you are doing the work for free and considering your project, that in itself is clear.  I have seen too many people offer to do work for free or at a cut rate, only to become known as the cheapest guy/gal in town, which in turn makes it hard to raise rates.


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## tirediron (Feb 3, 2017)

Hermes1 said:


> First, a very nice and worthwhile project you have embarked on, kudos.  You are so correct on making it clear why you are doing the work for free and considering your project, that in itself is clear.  I have seen too many people offer to do work for free or at a cut rate, only to become known as the cheapest guy/gal in town, which in turn makes it hard to raise rates.


Thanks!  That's the problem; once you're known as "that guy" you're hooped.  My rule is that I never work free for someone who asks me (certain charity events excepted).


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## MSnowy (Feb 3, 2017)

That's a nice thing to do for the veterans and an interesting way of marketing yourself. How many of these shoots do you do a year? I think you would be able to write these as a business expense on your taxes under donations or even a loss.


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## tirediron (Feb 3, 2017)

MSnowy said:


> That's a nice thing to do for the veterans and an interesting way of marketing yourself. How many of these shoots do you do a year? I think you would be able to write these as a business expense on your taxes under donations or even a loss.


Thanks Mike.  It really varies; some years it's 30-40, some only half of that.  I usually advertise it in the spring of each year.  As far as the expense, I'll be honest.  That didn't occur to me.  I freely admit that I'm a HORRIBLE businessman.  My book-keeping is atrocious, my paperwork is all over the place...  I will have to talk to my  bean counter about that.  I wonder if the resultant sales would matter or not?


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## pixmedic (Feb 3, 2017)

tirediron said:


> As most of you know I've been working on my Veteran's Portrait Project for a number of years now and have created many portraits for local Veterans.  The premise is simple:  Any serving or retired member of the Canadian Armed Forces who sits for me will receive a free portrait session and a complimentary 8x10 print of their choice from that session.  During these sessions I do absolutely NO selling.  I don't suggest or recommend additional prints or offer discounts etc.  Typically, about a third of clients ask if they can purchase additional prints.  I tell them that they certainly can, and give them prices for standard sizes.
> 
> Once they receive their print, at least half immediately place an additional order; usually not a large one, typically <$100, and about half of those place a second order usually 2-3 months later for at least $100 - $150.  As well, close to a third of those who don't order immediately call me within six weeks to place an order in the $100 - $150 range.
> 
> ...


The fact that you do great portrait work doesn't hurt either .

sent by synchronized cardioversion


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## Destin (Feb 3, 2017)

@tirediron thank you for posting this. It's given me some ideas for my first responder project...
I love the idea of giving them a free 8x10. 

Going to make some changes to my program when I get a chance now.


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## tirediron (Feb 3, 2017)

pixmedic said:


> The fact that you do great portrait work doesn't hurt either .


Thanks Jason! 


Destin said:


> @tirediron thank you for posting this. It's given me some ideas for my first responder project...
> I love the idea of giving them a free 8x10.
> 
> Going to make some changes to my program when I get a chance now.


Cool!  Hope it works out the way it has for me!


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## smoke665 (Feb 3, 2017)

tirediron said:


> you will quickly become 'that guy who does free portraits (or events, or whatever)'



I think it's great. All of us on this earth have an obligation to give back in some manner. It's easy to give money to a cause, but it's entirely different matter to give of your time and talent, that shows a commitment.


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## tirediron (Feb 4, 2017)

smoke665 said:


> I think it's great. All of us on this earth have an obligation to give back in some manner. It's easy to give money to a cause, but it's entirely different matter to give of your time and talent, that shows a commitment.


I agree 100%; it gets tough when you're trying to balance doing free work with doing paid work and running a business.  As long as you can keep the 'free' part separate and logical it will work. I seem to have fallen into a good spot, totally by luck.  Not too many people are going to question providing a free portrait to a Veteran!  On the other hand, if you're shooting solely for the sake of art give away as much as you feel able to!


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## orljustin (Feb 5, 2017)

if you were really doing it for "free", you'd give them the digital file.  Many togs do free portrait sessions with the money coming from prints.  You're just eating the $2 cost of one print.

Obviously it's a working setup since you're getting the print sales and some extra work.  But it's just a promotion.   "Free sitting! No minimum purchase!"


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## Destin (Feb 5, 2017)

orljustin said:


> if you were really doing it for "free", you'd give them the digital file.  Many togs do free portrait sessions with the money coming from prints.  You're just eating the $2 cost of one print.
> 
> Obviously it's a working setup since you're getting the print sales and some extra work.  But it's just a promotion.   "Free sitting! No minimum purchase!"



I absolutely disagree. Maybe to the younger generations, this is true. 

To the older generation (veterans) a print likely has FAR more perceived value. Many of them wouldn't know what to do with a digital file.


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## MSnowy (Feb 5, 2017)

Destin said:


> orljustin said:
> 
> 
> > if you were really doing it for "free", you'd give them the digital file.  Many togs do free portrait sessions with the money coming from prints.  You're just eating the $2 cost of one print.
> ...


 
Well not all veterans are older gentleman. The bigger issue with digital files is they allow unlimited printing,which would the affect the potential for future sales


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## MSnowy (Feb 5, 2017)

tirediron said:


> MSnowy said:
> 
> 
> > That's a nice thing to do for the veterans and an interesting way of marketing yourself. How many of these shoots do you do a year? I think you would be able to write these as a business expense on your taxes under donations or even a loss.
> ...



What does everyone on here say about running a professional photography business  "photography business is 10% photography 90% business, Sales might not be affected but profits will. A good accountant is one of the most important parts of running a successful business of any type.


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## pixmedic (Feb 5, 2017)

orljustin said:


> if you were really doing it for "free", you'd give them the digital file.  Many togs do free portrait sessions with the money coming from prints.  You're just eating the $2 cost of one print.
> 
> Obviously it's a working setup since you're getting the print sales and some extra work.  But it's just a promotion.   "Free sitting! No minimum purchase!"



you have missed the entire premise of  John's venture.
he is providing a service to veterans. he doesnt push for any sales, and free is still free regardless of the medium provided. 
the whole point of this thread was to show that sometimes even providing a free service can have a windfall. 
hes not just "eating a $2 print"..a common misconception with people that dont understand photography or business. 
hes donating quite a bit of time, effort, and expertise into this project. John also helps out with the wounded warriors.

im amazed, and even appalled,  that you could take something benevolent like John's veteran project, which he has done free for years, and spin it into a cheap
wal-mart photo studio money grab...

an excerpt from johns website concerning the project...

"This is a personal project I have undertaken to document the many faces of Canada’s Veterans. My goal is to create portraits of as many Canadian Veterans, from the Army, Air Force, Navy, Merchant Navy and Civil Defense, both serving and retired as I can.
At this time I have no set goal for the project, other than to create the portraits. If you are a Veteran, or know one, and would like a free 8×10 portrait, please contact me to arrange a session. There is absolutely no obligation and no attempt will be made to sell you anything. The images will be made available to organizations and causes which support the rights and advancement of Canadian Veterans."

anyone wishing to find out more, or knows a Canadian vet that might be interested in a portrait, you can get all the information you need from John's page.
http://www.johnsphotography.ca/index.php/veterans-portrait-project/


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## MSnowy (Feb 5, 2017)

I 


pixmedic said:


> orljustin said:
> 
> 
> > if you were really doing it for "free", you'd give them the digital file.  Many togs do free portrait sessions with the money coming from prints.  You're just eating the $2 cost of one print.
> ...


 
I agree with you that John is doing a wonderful thing but that's no excuse for breaking the forum rules buy making a personal attack on the poster.


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## pixmedic (Feb 5, 2017)

MSnowy said:


> I
> 
> 
> pixmedic said:
> ...



i disagree that an actual personal attack was made.  just an opinion given. i certainly didnt call him any names.


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## table1349 (Feb 5, 2017)

MSnowy said:


> I
> 
> 
> pixmedic said:
> ...







DeJa Vue


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## tirediron (Feb 5, 2017)

orljustin said:


> if you were really doing it for "free", you'd give them the digital file.  Many togs do free portrait sessions with the money coming from prints.  You're just eating the $2 cost of one print.
> 
> Obviously it's a working setup since you're getting the print sales and some extra work.  But it's just a promotion.   "Free sitting! No minimum purchase!"


Ummm... wow?  I didn't expect the thread to go this way...    Just to clarify:  If they ask, I will give them the digital file, in fact that was how I originally started the project, but there was almost no interest.  Since I've switched to prints, exactly ONE person has asked for the digital file, and it was sent to them in full-resolution, unwatermarked format, cropped for 8x10 printing. 

In one case, I went to the home of a WWII Veteran who had sat for me, because he wanted family portraits.  On his mantle I noticed his original WWII induction photo in a 3 1/2 x5  twin frame beside the a screen-captured home ink-jet print of an image from his session's proof gallery, complete with my watermark.  I didn't say anything, I simply sent the file to the lab and presented him with a properly printed version, FREE OF CHARGE.

The  majority (probably 60-70%) of the people who sit for this are older; 60, 70s and up.  I am actively targeting WWII and Korean Veterans for the simple reason that they're getting fewer and fewer every day.   I've done lots of younger Veterans too, but my main focus is older Veterans.  

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy that this has turned into a money-maker, but I believe that has happened because the clients like the product.  I will keep doing this as long as I can, regardless of how much or little money it makes.  There is a personal motivation behind this, but it has NOTHING to do with money.


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## jake337 (Feb 5, 2017)

This is great.

I've been contemplating doing something similar with local artist.  I really need to start.


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## table1349 (Feb 11, 2017)

Iron I know the thread is a bit old, and I origional though of posting this in the Articles of Interest forum, but thought it appropriate in your thread.  
*I Never Shoot Photos for Free, But This is Why I Did*

Hope you don't mind.


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## tirediron (Feb 11, 2017)

Thanks Gryph!  That's a great article, and (I think) supports what I'm saying in my OP.


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