# What Rebel, T6 or T7



## pocketshaver (May 27, 2019)

Im trying to figure this one out. I am seeing the refurbished ones sold by cannon, in kits with 2 lenses, going for less then what the "new" kits of the same thing are going online.

Some amazon listings say the amazon listing is a "retailers kit made from canon factory components". based on the price of the camera bodies alone should I assume that the amazon retailer kits are also refurbished in some way?

What actually lets you know your getting the version with the newest software updates?


And what does expandable iso actually mean..


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## Warhorse (May 27, 2019)

It is not too hard to do your own updates.


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## Derrel (May 27, 2019)

pocketshaver said:


> And what does expandable iso actually mean..



The native ISO is "real"...expandable is either Lo- or Hi-, below or above the tested, certified ISo.

Typically, if the "real ISO is like 100-12,800...a camera may have Lo-.7, Lo-1, maybe even a Lo-2, and dip down to say an effective 50 ISO, approximately, and high might be a more-or-less 25,600; in most cases, using ISOs in the Lo- range cuts effective dynamic range, and going to Hi- often results in very noisy shots.


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## RowdyRay (May 27, 2019)

If this is your only two choices, go with the T7. Almost identical, really. Same processor and FPS. But the T7 is newer and more MPs. It looks like you can get either with the 18-55mm on Amazon for 399.00. Go newer. 

Canon T6 vs Canon T7

You won't know what firmware version is in the camera until you get it. You'll find the version in the menu. Check with Canon to see what the latest is. Updates are pretty simple and their instructions are very clear. If I can do it, you can. But you can always ask here. Someone will help.


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## Derrel (May 27, 2019)

T7 (EOS2000D)

Canon EOS 2000D sensor review: A step up from the 1300D - DxOMark


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## RowdyRay (May 27, 2019)

Derrel said:


> T7 (EOS2000D)
> 
> Canon EOS 2000D sensor review: A step up from the 1300D - DxOMark



Interesting. Didn't realize the T7 doesn't have the Dual Pixel CMOS AF system. Thought all the newest ones did. Now it depends on how the OP wants to use it.


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## pocketshaver (May 29, 2019)

However does the dual pixel on the T7i really worth the extra cost?

And how does the Nikon DX 5600  compare?

Im worried about image quality, and working outside, and with low light


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## Derrel (May 29, 2019)

It's pretty clear thst Canon is not class-leading in terms of sensor performance ... look at how Sony and Nikon models out perform the T7 in sensor performance.


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## pocketshaver (May 29, 2019)

THey seem to get good reviews. Sony seems to be considered "not so great picture quality wise" but I cant find a clear concession on that.

Nikon seems to be really nice, really expensive on the glass. But the pictures on their website are rather nice.

Pentax is interesting based on their using the k mount and all kmount lenses.

Though with Nikon and Canon, can you do standard manual lens control?

With Pentax?


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## Derrel (May 30, 2019)

Canon abandoned f/stop on the lens in the 1980's; there are NO EF lenses with an aperture ring on them....Nikon pre-Ai (1959-1976) Ai, 1977-1981 apprx., and Ai-S (1982,apprx. to present) *All have* an on-lens aperture ring; Nikon Af 1987-1992 aprx. , AF-D,  and Af-i and Af-S, *All have* an on-lens aperture ring; Nikon G-series lenses have NO Aperture ring: Nikon has recnetly advanced to the E-dishragm. for elctronically= or electrically-operated, mostly in vey expensive high-end superteles, whci require  newer cameras to acuate the diahragm.

SonyAf/MinoltaAF--no f/stop ring on lenses

Older Minolta manual focus lenses are not compatible with their AF cameras.

Pentax K, KA, Af, lenses--have an on-lens aperture ring; as I read just today, the newer Limited series lenses do not have an an on-lens aperture ring; I am not that familiar with other mounts.

Olympus M-mount lenses had an on-lens aperture ring; Yashica/Contax had an on-lens aperture ring,;Fujica and Ricoh used variants of the m42 and the K or KA mounts, as I recall.


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## Derrel (May 30, 2019)

For using manufacturer or native mount lenses made from the 1950's to today, Nikon is extremely good.

For using manufacturer or native mount lenses made from the 1970's to today,Pentax is extremely good.

Canon d-slrs accept seven legacy 35mm lenses, with infinity focus with glassless adapters.

Mirrorless cameras accept almost any lens which one can buy an adapter for.


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## photoflyer (May 30, 2019)

I have the T7i as my crop sensor body and other than not being water sealed (which I knew going in) it has performed exceptionally well.  


Sent from my iPad using ThePhotoForum.com mobile app


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## ac12 (Jun 2, 2019)

T7i

The high school where I advise the yearbook has pretty much standardized on the T7i.
I got them to upgrade to the T7i, from the T3 and T5.  
The T7i has much better low light performance than the T5, which has made it a LOT easier for them to shoot night and gym games, which were a struggle with the T3 and T5.

Firmware is user updated, so I would not worry about what version is installed on the camera.  Just update it to the current version.

As for lenses, I have always  been adverse to kits.
I believe in looking at the available lenses and determining which one(s) fits my needs best, and going with that.  
Example, for the yearbook's T7i, I advised the yearbook advisor to buy the T7i with the 18-135 lens, rather than 18-55 + 55-200 kit.  That has proven to be a good decision.  The 18-135 has been able to shoot 90% of what they want to shoot.  So no hassles with carrying a 2nd long lens and changing lenses in the field.
Our secondary lenses are the Sigma/Tamron 17-50/2.8 for the gym sports and Canon 70-300 for longer shots at daytime outdoor sports.  Again lenses picked specifically for the task, from what is available, and kept within a budget.
We have a Sigma 80-200/2.8 for low light, but since getting the T7i, the kids have been avoiding the heavy Sigma lens.  And I don't blame them, as I use a 70-200/4 because it is half the weight of the f/2.8 lens.

Having said that, if the kit 18-55 and 55-200 work for you, then go with that.
Again, you have to think about which gear works for YOU, not what the marketing guys packaged into a kit, or what someone else uses.

One BIG caution on these kits.  Both Canon and Nikon 2-lens kits usually have the 2nd lens as a 55-200 or 70-300 but WITHOUT Image Stabilization (IS).  This make the lens cheaper, and thus the kit price lower.  But the lens is less useful, because now YOU have to stabilize the lens, and it is harder to use than a stabilized lens.  Today, I would NOT buy a non-stabilized long lens for a dSLR, as the dSLR does not have In-Body Image Stabilization.

re Refurbishes.
READ and STUDY the listing very very carefully, to look for any mention of refurbished.
And if there is any mention, make sure it says CANON refurbished, not "seller refurbished."  The problem is, you have no idea what the seller did to refurbish the gear; did they just wipe down the gear to make it look nice, and NOT do any testing?

In the case of Canon refurb being more expensive than online new, I would go with online new.
But ONLY if is NOT a grey market item.  I do not know about Canon, but Nikon USA does NOT warranty grey market gear.  In fact they will NOT even service grey market gear, even if you offered to pay them for the repair.

It has to be "Canon factory components" cuz the camera and lens are Canon.  But is it grey market or not?  And is it refurb or not?  The devil is in the details of the listing.

The old saying is still true, "if it looks too good to be true, it likely is (bad)."


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## beagle100 (Jun 14, 2019)

pocketshaver said:


> However does the dual pixel on the T7i really worth the extra cost?
> 
> And how does the Nikon DX 5600  compare?
> 
> Im worried about image quality, and working outside, and with low light



Canon has better "IQ" image quality than Nikon (duh ... why most pros shoot with Canon!)
but full frame will be better in low light


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## Derrel (Jun 14, 2019)

beagle100 said:


> pocketshaver said:
> 
> 
> > However does the dual pixel on the T7i really worth the extra cost?
> ...



Canon has better image quality??? I guess by that you mean _lower resolution, and narrower dynamic range, and crappier low-light sensor performance, right_????

Compare any Canon versus a comparable Nikon made since 2009... Nikon typically offers two to about four stop more in scene dynamic range...Nikon has better sensors than Canon does, something that annoys the hell out of many Canon shooters. Sony, Pentax, Nikon, and Fuji have made HUGE strides in image quality, while Canon has stayed well behind the leaders for about a decade, since they are the leader in sales; instead of improving their sensors, they spend a ****-ton of money on TV,print, and internet advertising.

Compare sensor stats at DxO Mark....Canon is about ten years behind. Sensors Database - DxOMark


Canon USED to have a big edge over Nikon, and* many pros shoot Canon not out of image quality concerns, but out of "what did we buy last time" issues.15 years ago, Canon was clearly a better brand than it is now.*


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## Derrel (Jun 14, 2019)

Canon= Ford Mustang. Nikon= Chevrolet Corvette.

The Mustang outsells the Corvette by a huge margin. 

Ego, according to beagle's logic, the Mustang must the better car, in much the same way as Timex is a better wristwatch than Rolex. Timex probably outsells Rolex by 1,000 to 1.

 Canon...Nikon...Timex, Rolex.


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