# Finally back in the darkroom!



## Compaq (Nov 4, 2012)

Spent a few hours there yesterday, and I'm going back tonight. Developed a festival film with concert shots, and there are several that look good! Can't wait to print them.

It's just so annoying not having my own paper. I've been trying to filtrate out foggy paper that looks like ass, but there is lots of old paper there. I did find some paper from 2011 that some guy has left there. I contacted him to ask if he's willing to sell (as he's never down there), but I haven't gotten any reply yet. I'm considering just taking a piece of small paper just to see what it looks like. He'll never know. 

Just using new chemicals for my film development, I feel a difference. The fixer is super efficient, and the developer works great. I scanned a few prints, but forgot to bring the flash drive. Will upload tonight!

Planning to buy my own paper and chemicals soon as well. Too much to do, too little time at the moment!


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## terri (Nov 4, 2012)

Congrats!!    I'm happy to hear the progress you're making.    Nothing beats fresh chemistry.    :razz:    Good luck trying these papers.    You'll advance by leaps and bounds when you are able to stick with one paper and try several different negatives with it.   Generally, it's best to stick with one paper/developer combo when you are first learning, and know you'll get good results, before venturing out and trying more.   

I am looking forward to seeing the latest!


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## Compaq (Nov 5, 2012)

I didn't get any time to post yesterday, so here they come. These are from two days ago. I have some from yesterday which are drying. Yesterday, I spent about two hours achieving *nothing! *I got really annoyed. I brought my girlfriend (but I actually don't think that contributed...  ).  Anyway, I tried out different paper too much before concluding it was fogged. I left one in the light for a few minutes (constant lighting!), and had it one minute in the developer. It came out as a sky full of clouds that was out of focus. I threw it away, and tried another box. This too was foggy. I tried three different kinds before finding a tetanal vario paper. I also changed the developer. In addition, I diluted wrongly. I wanted 1+25, but ended up with 1+12,5 (I though the bottle was a 2L bottle, not a 1L  ). But I think maybe the dev was so old this worked in my favor. Scans from these will be posted.

So, two days ago I didn't have this paper, and old agfa developer to boot.

Can't remember what paper I used for these (I know, I suck at explaining what I'm doing), because I tried out so many. I think my problem is contrast control. The pics I'm posting now aren't really representative of what I'm able to do, because I had a few epiphanies yesterday, and found good, unfogged paper.

1 Original scan



HT sau minister scan by Anders Myhre Brakestad, on Flickr

2 What I'd like to achieve



HT sau minister kontrast by Anders Myhre Brakestad, on Flickr

3 Original scan, this is me btw, with my minister 700. Taken by my girlfriend.



Anders og kamera, MX-stemne scan by Anders Myhre Brakestad, on Flickr

4 What I'd like to achieve



Anders og kamera, MX-stemne kontrast by Anders Myhre Brakestad, on Flickr


I've been experimenting with dodging and burning. Burning is much more difficult than dodging, as I need to cover up stuff. I used the boxes the dev or fix came in, but once I'm working at bigger prints, I need to work out a good work flow here. I realize dogding/burning is necessary to achieve what I want.

The prints I got yesterday are much better, I believe. The enlarger I'm using is for colour prints. I found out how the magenta filter works, and just turned it up to around 120, which basically is at max. My exposure varied between 20-10 seconds yesterday. Always one minute in the developer, one minute in stop and two minutes in fix.


This thread is extremely messy, I'm writing in a lecture 

btw, a V600 is on its way soon. Talked with darkroom chief yesterday!


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## ann (Nov 5, 2012)

you really need to get your own paper and chemicals, as you running in circles going no where.

start writing down your exposures times, etc. so you can review later.

Your paper should be in the developer 90 secs for RC, 20-3 minutes for fiber. 30 seconds in stop bath and 60 sec in fixer for RC, 5 minutes for fiber

Burning and dodging is not hard, learn to use your hands, and/or take some pieces of wire and tape shapes cut to match the shape needed for the print, use black consturction paper.

120 magenta is way to much contrast, it is someplace in the range of grade 5 or even 6.

try magenta at 30-35 which is about a grade 3. It doesn't make any differnce that the enlarger has a color head, just make the adjustments with yellow and magenta, not cyan.

See if you can find a copy of Larry Bartlett's book on Black and white workshop photography, it will help you , since you are basically on your own.

When i was a child this is the way we learned as there were no classes, basically no one to talk, it is a slow method. These days there are a wide variety of options which will  help including this site. However, it is too bad you can't find someone locally who really knows what they are doing, as it would speed up your learning process.

Keep at it, things will get better.


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## Compaq (Nov 5, 2012)

I'm reading Tim Rudman's master printing guide, and just started on dodging and burning. I have two more book, one by Bartlett and another one I can't remember. Learning a lot. Will by chemicals and paper soon, and do a safelught test and MDT test just for the experience.


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## ann (Nov 5, 2012)

Tim's has a very good book, Bartlett has great examples and mapping maps that should be of help.


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## terri (Nov 6, 2012)

I agree with Ann, as soon as you start using your own paper and chemistry, and stick with that combination for while (whatever it is) you'll begin to see better results.   I know you're using borrowed/found items and it saves you money, but trying so many things haphazardly doesn't get you far.    I already see improvement here, at least with your comprehension on contrast.   You do seem to have a better grasp of what you're after, and that's half the battle when you're starting out.   :thumbup:    

Randomly dialing in a magenta number isn't the way to go.   If you can find a variable contrast paper that has a good data sheet, like Ilford, it will give you the actual settings for each contrast grade for your particular enlarger - or darn close.   Try the suggested settings, and make a few prints.   And yes, follow Ann's suggestions on timing for developer, stop bath and fixture.    The magic concept here is consistency in your workflow.  

You've come a long way already from your first few work prints.      Keep it up!


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## Compaq (Nov 6, 2012)

Previously I thought that dumping the developer after each session was unnecessary, but I realize that an aggressive developer solution is important! I think I'll be buying Ilford multigrade paper, a box of small 13x18cm with 100 sheets. It'll be for learning purposes. Once I feel that I had control over my exposures and making a good work print and being able to do basic burning or dodging, I can move up to bigger paper.

I just read in Rudman's book about difficult horizons being a challenge when it comes to burning in the sky - which I already have experienced in my hours in the darkroom already. He needed something like 13 exposures to come around that. 

That's where I'd like to be: Having the technique to produce the shot I want, pretty much regardless of what the negative gives me. When I finish this book, I'll start on Bartlett's. I have another one (can't remember author or title), but I feel it's more a "basic photography and darkroom" book, and that I'll learn more from the dedicated darkroom books.

Anyway, I really appreciate having interested people here giving me advice all the time.


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## ann (Nov 6, 2012)

smaller is more difficult in learning to burn and dodge. use 8x10 it is much easier


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## terri (Nov 6, 2012)

ann said:


> smaller is more difficult in learning to burn and dodge. use 8x10 it is much easier



+1.   Not to continuously badger your decisions, Compaq, but you might do better with 50 sheets of 8x10, rather than 100 sheets of the smaller size.   You simply must be able to get a fair-sized view of your image while learning to burn and dodge.     8x10 is great to learn on.


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## Compaq (Nov 7, 2012)

Ordered some Ilford multigrade delux Pearl paper, 13x18cm. That's bigger than what I've been practicing with, so it'll be easier. Ilford chemistry as well. Should arrive in a few days, this weekend will be good!


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## ann (Nov 7, 2012)

Next time you order paper, think glossy, it will show every flaw that may be present in the negative IMHO a more valuable learning lesson.  Pearl is a lovely surface and I am sure you will have great fun.


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## timor (Nov 7, 2012)

Compaq said:


> Ordered some Ilford multigrade delux Pearl paper, 13x18cm. That's bigger than what I've been practicing with, so it'll be easier.


I don't think you will be happy. It's not only size, with larger reproduction you will have longer exposition times and that makes dodging and burning easier, more precise. (Closing down the aperture is not always the answer.) In any case good luck.


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## Compaq (Nov 8, 2012)

Well, then I'll just have to crop, won't I


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## Compaq (Nov 9, 2012)

Dude, what exceptional change fresh paper and chemicals made! Soo much easier to get satisfactory results. I still need to practice dodging and burning-in, but man, I get consistent results!! LOL. I will scan some shots when they're dry


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## ann (Nov 9, 2012)

ah, that is good news,

and just remember learning to be a master printer takes time and lots of practice (keep filling the learning bin ) otherwise know on some planets as the trash can.


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## Compaq (Nov 10, 2012)

It's super rewarding. Digital is losing its appeal more and more.


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## RichardH (Nov 10, 2012)

I have had a darkroom for years and years and just recently bought a scanner and epson r3000 printer. I don't think I'll get rid of the darkroom anytime soon. I enjoy it too much. I can turn the safelight on, put a good cd in the radio and just stand there with all the problems of life gone. There is nothing like watching the image come up in the developer. 
I have been playing with the Caffenol chemistry and am just amazed at the chemicals you can buy at the grocery store for developing. Fixer is a chemical used in swimming pools. Stop bath is vinegar diluted with water.
So far I like the epson printer but there is a big difference between the 2 procedures of creating a photo.

Stay with it Compaq and just enjoy the experience of it.


Richard


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## Compaq (Nov 11, 2012)

I get you, even if I haven't been at it too long.

I don't worry about school and the upcoming exams in the darkroom. Not even about how my girlfriend is taking a semester in the states after Christmas. It's just me, my girlfriend and the print.


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## terri (Nov 11, 2012)

I'm so happy for you, Anders!    :cheer:   Sounds like you've had an "ah-ha" moment.   It's been hard reading about your struggles here.   It's not an easy thing to learn on your own, let along struggling with old paper and possibly exhausted chemistry.    Now you've learned the difference and you are rewarded with better images.       You'll never burden yourself again with sub-par materials.   

Congrats!


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## Compaq (Nov 12, 2012)

Now I start honing my technique, instead of trying out poor paper. It feels good knowing that the only thing stopping me from good prints, is me! 

One thing I'm a little befuddled about, is this: When doing a test strip of a neg, I ended up with 12 seconds @f/5.6 or f/8. Then, at another print that looked pretty similar, five seconds was appropriate. That's more than a stop difference. Maybe I'm just bad at judging my negatives.


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## ann (Nov 12, 2012)

probably a lack of experience; however, 5 secs is much too short for a variety of reasons, including the time necessary for burning and dodging.

stick with one fstop, the difference between 5.6 and 8 is a huge difference. that is twice as much light.

i teach a whole different method, Min time for max black which means the start times are always the same, which elements making a test strip for every print. That does not mean the finishing times are the same, THEY AREN"T.


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## Compaq (Nov 12, 2012)

I have a lot to learn when it comes to baic stuff like that. 

I'm sniffing at Grant Haist's book "Modern Photographic Processing" as some bed time reading. I think that book is exactly what I want regarding the chemical processes and the theory of it all.


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