# Avoiding Assault (Or Lowering the Odds)



## FireGirl_Photography (Mar 26, 2011)

Last week I narrowly escaped an assault in downtown Austin while on assignment covering SXSW music showcases. I realize that the combination of being a young woman (I'm 23), carrying around expensive camera gear, and working solo at an event like this ups my odds of getting into trouble. But after a night spent in the emergency clinic / talking to the police I'm trying to find a way to minimize risk. 

Any ideas?

I carry a very, very low-profile camera bag and always dress to match the locals. Typically work alone but always carry some form of self-defense. Keep a cell phone easily accessible.

I've met grizzly bears that were more friendly than that crowd.

__________________
Fire Girl Photography
Fire Girl Photography, the Outdoor and Editorial Photography of Jessica McGlothlin.
The Fire Girl Photography Blog
Outdoor and Equestrian Photography


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## EckoZero (Mar 26, 2011)

Learn Commando Krav Maga.

Specifically designed for instinctive, intuitive, concept (not technique) based self defence with several modules on defending against multiple attackers.


Other than that there's not a huge amount you can do - the stuff you're doing is right. Keep a low profile and try to blend in.


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## ZacFreeland (Mar 26, 2011)

That's crazy! I've never had something happen to me before. Stay safe.


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## Garbz (Mar 27, 2011)

Carry pepper spray or something like that if you're in a bad environment like that. I'm sorry to hear this and hope it hasn't shaken you up too much.


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## mikehaugen (Mar 27, 2011)

On the strobist website (Strobist) he spoke once of walking back to his car alone at night and being prepared for just that.  I couldn't find it again, but one piece of advice he gave was to keep flash handy at full manual power to temporarily blind an attacker in the dark.  I don't know if you carry a tripod or monopod, but he suggested using that as a weapon after blinding them.  You could also get a tazer, which would probably be more effective.  I would also suggest insuring your gear so if something were to happen you could just drop it and run, that is probably what he is after anyway, and you could run faster.  Probably better to have to replace the gear (especially if it's insured) than being severely injured or worse.

It's unfortunate that you are a young female, because as you pointed out, that is who most cowardly attackers are going to target.


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## Derrel (Mar 27, 2011)

How about open carry of a deadly weapon on your belt? Seriously. In most US states and municipalities, a non-felon is allowed to openly carry a weapon like a knife or handgun as long as it is not concealed.


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## table1349 (Mar 27, 2011)

Product: Model 60LS

Its simple, compact and it gets the job done.


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## table1349 (Mar 27, 2011)

Derrel said:


> How about open carry of a deadly weapon on your belt? Seriously. In most US states and municipalities, a non-felon is allowed to openly carry a weapon like a knife or handgun as long as it is not concealed.


 
It's not quite that simple.  You open carry in my jurisdiction and your @$$ is going to jail.  End of story.  You carry concealed with a permit and you are fine.  Open carry at a state level is allowed in most states.  At a municipal level it is not.  Good site to learn more on open carry. OpenCarry.org - A Right Unexercised is a Right Lost!


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## Overread (Mar 27, 2011)

Note if you're going to carry a weapon (tazer/knife/gun/etc...) make sure you know how to use properly and also be prepared to use it for defence before you carry it - otherwise you're just giving your opponent another weapon. Many people get stabbed with their own knife because they carry one around, but never actually know how to use it properly in a knife fight situation and thus their opponent gets the better of them.


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## table1349 (Mar 27, 2011)

To expound on what Overread said, if you are going to carry a deadly force weapon, you need to take a deep look into your soul and psyche before you decide to carry one.  If you do not have in you the ability to take a human life with that weapon if necessary, *then do not pick it up. * It will only get you or someone else hurt or killed.   A tazer, while it can be a great non/lethal weapon, is not as easy to  use or carry as one would think.  If it fails or you fail in using it effectively you have just made the other person angrier and a second chance to use it is unlikely.  If you have no way either physically or mentally of stepping up on the use of force continum, you again are in a bad, possibly worse situation.  

If you believe that you mentally have the ability to use force, then I would suggest that  you look at the legal carrying of your choice of protection.  If you don't have that ability in you, and if you don't there is nothing wrong with that, then you might want to take someone with you that could provide a level of protection in the situations you are in.

If you choose one of the hand to hand martial arts then I would suggest Systema SPETSNAZ.


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## PhotoWrangler (Mar 27, 2011)

SXSW is in Austin.
Austin is in Texas. 
Texans carry guns.


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## 480sparky (Mar 27, 2011)

If my assailant is going to hurt me with my own gun, he's gonna have to beat me with it.  By the time he gets his hands on it, it will be empty.  And if he's still able to gain control of it at that point, I _deserve_ to be beaten with it.

And for the record..... Yes, I have been shot at.


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## Derrel (Mar 27, 2011)

Charter Arms Bulldog Revolver - www.MidwestHuntersOutlet.com

Actually quite easy to handle and hit with, plus the large .44 Special cylinder openings and huge muzzle opening have a profound psychological effect that the .35 cal (aka 9mm, .38, .380.357) handguns lack. Stainless gives a lot of "profile" and makes the gun easily seen in lower light levels. Even a fairly low-powered .44 Special target wadcutter round is a potent round, and it's fun to target shoot with.


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## DennyCrane (Mar 27, 2011)

I agree. Take the safety courses, get a gun (and all locally required permits) and be prepared.


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## e.rose (Mar 27, 2011)

gryphonslair99 said:


> Product: Model 60LS
> 
> Its simple, compact and it gets the job done.



Ruger® LCP® Centerfire Pistol Models

^^^ That's what I carry.  Lazer pointer and hollow point bullets in the mag.  

We need to get a *second* one, because it's actually what *Keith* carries, but he gives it to me and he'll take the other hand gun he has, if I'm going somewhere shady for a shoot.



Derrel said:


> How about open carry of a deadly weapon on your belt? Seriously. In most US states and municipalities, a non-felon is allowed to openly carry a weapon like a knife or handgun as long as it is not concealed.


 
That's a good point... and being that she's in Texas, they might be used to it... but I know that if *I* carried a non-concealed weapon, I'd probably have trouble doing my job *anyway*, because people would freak out, call the cops and I'd be getting stopped every 5 feet to show the authorities that I have my license to carry.  

People freak out when they see a gun strapped to someone not wearing a blue suit, unless you're wearing orange, it's a riffle, and you're heading into the woods during hunting seasons.  :lmao:


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## skieur (Mar 27, 2011)

Forget about a gun.  Get a dog.  There much more fun and some breeds are very easy to train.

skieur


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## 480sparky (Mar 27, 2011)

Seriously?


A dog?


Maybe while_ jogging_, yes.  But during a_ photo shoot_?

I've got enough to worry about just working my gear and paying attention to my subject.  A dog will just complicate matters.


"Let's see..... RAW+Jpeg Normal.  ISO 100. F/8. Shutter to 1/125.  Camera level.  Zoom to 105mm.  Fill flash to.............. Fido, get back here!.........  Fill flash to 1/4th.  Oh, sun just went behind the clou........... Dammit, Fido.......why did you have to poop right there?"


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## e.rose (Mar 27, 2011)

Here we go. :er:


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## Trever1t (Mar 27, 2011)

I'm all for CCW and self defense but honestly your best defense is to NOT travel alone or stay in a very public place. Learning self defense takes time and is great advice., join a class. In the mean time take a friend (big one) with you.


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## e.rose (Mar 27, 2011)

Trever1t said:


> I'm all for CCW and self defense but honestly your best defense is to NOT travel alone or stay in a very public place. Learning self defense takes time and is great advice., join a class. In the mean time take a friend (big one) with you.


 
I totally agree with you, but sometimes you just can't do that.

Like today, for example... I'm going to scout out the location, but I'm not familiar with the area and I don't know how sketchy it is.  I *could* just grab the Rugar and go myself, but my husband isn't doing anything today so I'm dragging his ass out of the house against his will to come with me.  

But there are other times when he's just not around, or can't be at a shoot with me, either because he's playing a show already or whatever other reason there may be... *that's* when I'll take the Rugar.  I've only had to do that twice so far.


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## skieur (Mar 27, 2011)

480sparky said:


> Seriously?
> 
> 
> A dog?
> ...


 
My dog just follows me around off the leash, or if she is on the leash and I drop it, she just sits or lies down near me.  She also knows when and where to poop.  One woman told her dog to line up 3 unsavoury characters that were following her against the wall of a nearby building.  The dog did exactly that and kept them there.
They begged her to call the dog off.  She said only if they went in the opposite direction quickly.

Pick the right breed and having a dog with you is absolutely no problem whatsoever.

skieur


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## 480sparky (Mar 27, 2011)

I'll take a Smith & Wesson breed then.


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## Trever1t (Mar 27, 2011)

A firearm is great if you have the skill and balls to use it .......otherwise use caution and stay aware of your surroundings.


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## molested_cow (Mar 27, 2011)

Pepper spray sounds good.

Gun - Can't carry it on to the plane if you are traveling far to cover events.
Knife - If you don't know how to use it properly, it will end up hurting yourself.
Martial arts/ self-defense - Sure it's good, but it takes time to learn and be good at it.

I'd say it will be hard to use gun or knife because both requires you to be free of burdens to use it, meaning you cannot be carrying your gears otherwise you will just be hampered. It will be good to learn self-defense techniques no matter what, but always be prepared to come across someone who is too strong or quick or armed.

Pepper spray is effective if you have it ready. It's easy to use, doesn't require precision application like knife, gun or tazor and is pretty maintenance free. Just make sure you point the nozzle at the right direction. The spray also doesn't cause permanent damage. If you injure a person with a gun or knife out of self defense, it's still possible that you can do to prison for it. All you need is to stop your attackers, no need to cause injury.

Sorry to hear that, hope it will make you stronger.


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## imagemaker46 (Mar 27, 2011)

It may sound simple and finding yourself in dangerous situations sometimes just happens, being aware of what is going on, watching to see if it is likely to escalate and use your gut feelings, walk away before things really get out of hand.  All the other suggestions as "special" as they are will get you dead very quick, deciding to add a gun to your camera bag makes common sense go out the window. You can't have a dog following you around, too distracting. If you are really concerned that it will happen again, travel with a friend you trust to watch your back, and be smart.


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## K8-90 (Mar 27, 2011)

mikehaugen said:


> On the strobist website (Strobist) ...
> It's unfortunate that you are a young female, because as you pointed out, that is who most cowardly attackers are going to target.



Teheee! I get what you mean, but I find that amusing


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## Stutterfly (Mar 27, 2011)

imagemaker46 said:


> It may sound simple and finding yourself in dangerous situations sometimes just happens, being aware of what is going on, watching to see if it is likely to escalate and use your gut feelings, walk away before things really get out of hand.  All the other suggestions as "special" as they are will get you dead very quick, deciding to add a gun to your camera bag makes common sense go out the window. You can't have a dog following you around, too distracting. If you are really concerned that it will happen again, travel with a friend you trust to watch your back, and be smart.



Yes that. Not that a firearm is an option here...but  being aware of your surroundings, weighing up all risks and taking a nice big friend along with you might be the best options. I'm 24, female and not exactly buff. The times and places I have deemed as 'risky' when carrying my gear, I've always had my partner with me (he is big + tall) and that seems to suffice.


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## RockstarPhotography (Mar 27, 2011)

A few options you have are to carry a tazer and/or pepper spray.  Take a womens self defense course also.  If budget allows you can hire a bodyguard.  Do things to minimize the risk.  Be sure you have your car keys out and ready before you get to your car so your not standing there fumbling around.  Keys also make great makeshift weapons if you stab an attacker in the eye with one!


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## skieur (Mar 27, 2011)

Trever1t said:


> A firearm is great if you have the skill and balls to use it .......otherwise use caution and stay aware of your surroundings.



Yup, a firearm is great.  You don't use it in a difficult situation and you end up dead.  You do use and you end up in prison.  Great options!:lmao:


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## 480sparky (Mar 27, 2011)

skieur said:


> Yup, a firearm is great.  You don't use it in a difficult situation and you end up dead.  You do use and you end up in prison.  Great options!:lmao:



I'd rather be judged by twelve than carried by six.


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## Josh66 (Mar 27, 2011)

e.rose said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> > How about open carry of a deadly weapon on your belt? Seriously. In most US states and municipalities, a non-felon is allowed to openly carry a weapon like a knife or handgun as long as it is not concealed.
> ...


 I'm pretty sure open carry is illegal here.  Handguns anyway.  Open carry of long guns *might* be legal (not sure).  Handguns - 99% sure that's illegal though.

If it is legal, it is extremely rare.

Texas isn't the wild west anymore.


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## e.rose (Mar 27, 2011)

O|||||||O said:


> Texas isn't the wild west anymore.


 
But... but...


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## Josh66 (Mar 27, 2011)

e.rose said:


> O|||||||O said:
> 
> 
> > Texas isn't the wild west anymore.
> ...


 But - I hear Arizona still is.  

Open carry is very common there, from what I hear.


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## table1349 (Mar 27, 2011)

> =molested_cow;2205728]Pepper spray sounds good.





> Gun - Can't carry it on to the plane if you are traveling far to cover events.



Easy to carry on a plane in your checked luggage, not in a plane.  I travel with one all the time.  From TSA



> Knife - If you don't know how to use it properly, it will end up hurting yourself.



Never bring a knife to a gun fight.  If you do you will loose.  Not a primary self defense weapon.  It is a secondary or fall back weapon. 



> Martial arts/ self-defense - Sure it's good, but it takes time to learn and be good at it.



While time consuming, if a person does not have the ability to use deadly force this is the best option. 



> I'd say it will be hard to use gun or knife because both requires you to be free of burdens to use it, meaning you cannot be carrying your gears otherwise you will just be hampered. It will be good to learn self-defense techniques no matter what, but always be prepared to come across someone who is too strong or quick or armed.



Easy to use and get to.  If it is a life or death situation you drop what ever is in your hands to save your life.  Camera gear can be easily replaced. My 3913 is always on me and easy to get too.  Even when I have my duty weapon on me, I have a 3913 at hand.  It's a better backup than a knife. 



> Pepper spray is effective if you have it ready. It's easy to use, doesn't require precision application like knife, gun or tazor and is pretty maintenance free. Just make sure you point the nozzle at the right direction. The spray also doesn't cause permanent damage. If you injure a person with a gun or knife out of self defense, it's still possible that you can do to prison for it. All you need is to stop your attackers, no need to cause injury.



If it was that effective Law Enforcement would not have switched to Tazers.  Some people have a natural or sometimes drug or alcohol induced resistance to pepper spray.  Haven't found anyone yet that has a natural resistance to 50,000 volts. Even drunk it will lock their muscles up and they will drop. 

Best firearm for the non firearm crowd is a revolver. Simple and requires little care.  Semi-auto's while carrying more rounds need more routine care to assure proper function.  Personally I would look at something in the 38/357 range max.  The 44/40 can be too much in a close combat situation and is way too much if the first shot misses.  90% of combat situations are within 15 feet.  One consideration that always has to be addressed with the use of a firearm is what is behind the intended target.  Dropping an assailant is good, dropping grandma a block away from a miss or over penetration is not good.  That is why a lot of LEO agencies are leaving the 40 cal and going back to 9mm for sidearms and issuing patrol rifles when real firepower is needed.  The 9mm P+ or +P+  is a good close combat round and has all the stopping power of a 40mm.  Not what I would put through my firearm on a regular basis for practice, but if it is needed you can rely on what it will do.


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## table1349 (Mar 27, 2011)

skieur said:


> Trever1t said:
> 
> 
> > A firearm is great if you have the skill and balls to use it .......otherwise use caution and stay aware of your surroundings.
> ...


 
Only in Canada since the weapon can't be made to go bang in English and French at the same time.


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## molested_cow (Mar 27, 2011)

gryphonslair99, your reasoning on gun usage is with the assumption that the person is not only well trained to use it, but also well trained to react to the unexpected.

Cops receive high amount of training to use both firearm and tazor. In most cases, they are the ones approaching an incident with brief information from the dispatch on what they may be dealing with, so they are mentally prepared to react and use their tools. It is their job.
Preparing one's self for self-defense is a very different situation. You never know who what when how this will happen, if it does, let alone knowing what's the best way to deal with it. I really don't think carrying a gun or any weapon is going to make one any safer. The point is, if the aggressor can be discouraged to make contact, that's the best option. Weapons or even self-defense skills are used only when you are being confronted, which means **** is going to hit the fans anyways. No good. So the advice on knowing the environment, being smart about your moves or having someone being with you are still the best things one can prepare him/herself with.


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## ottor (Mar 27, 2011)

As a former Army Special Forces Viet Nam Vet, and past Law Enforcement officer, I carry wherever I go - I know how to use a weapon, and I dont' mean that I know how to aim and pull a trigger.. I've been trained _"and tested"_ under conflict senarios, and am confident I know what to do if ever needed. What worries me these days is to get a Carry Permit all you need to do is take a couple hour class and pass a written test.. You're TOLD what to do, and tested on what you remember from the class, and then you get to carry your new stainless 44 Mag to WalMart to shop on the weekend.. _If someone doesn't think that's scary, then they're a little misguided.._

For the original poster; First - get to know the area and venue you'll be covering. If you don't feel "* 100%* " confident of your safety, either don't go, or take someone with you. Second; after listening to all this bravado and tough talk, I'd recommend a good Pepper Spray. Easy to carry, more often than not it's legal, and it'll be a cold day in hell you'll find someone that would be totally immune to it.. All you need is time - time to get away and get some help. You dont' need to kill someone if you dont' have to, and odds are, you could take 50 Carry classes,_ and couldn't do it anyway_ - I mean either mentally or physically.. You're just gonna get hurt - probably more than what the Perp would do.. Stay away from guns if you're not totally and fully trained, *and with some experience handling conflict situations!!*

Good luck - I actually had to pull once and it wasn't against a human.... I was out in the desert near a populated area - by myself (I thought) and here comes 2 extremely large Rotweilers running and snarling at me down the path..... They kept coming, and about 20' in front of me I had to fire 3 rounds in front of the first one, kicking up some dirt right in front of them, which stopped him/her in their tracks... Followed closely by the girl running yelling "Dont shoot my dogs!".. She didn't feel safe with her aggressive dogs walking them in town, so she brings them out to the desert............ _with me_.


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## Trever1t (Mar 27, 2011)

well said and great advice.


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## table1349 (Mar 27, 2011)

> molested_cow said:
> 
> 
> > gryphonslair99, your reasoning on gun usage is with the assumption that the person is not only well trained to use it, but also well trained to react to the unexpected.
> ...


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## table1349 (Mar 27, 2011)

ottor said:


> As a former Army Special Forces Viet Nam Vet, and past Law Enforcement officer, I carry wherever I go - I know how to use a weapon, and I dont' mean that I know how to aim and pull a trigger.. I've been trained _"and tested"_ under conflict senarios, and am confident I know what to do if ever needed. What worries me these days is to get a Carry Permit all you need to do is take a couple hour class and pass a written test.. You're TOLD what to do, and tested on what you remember from the class, and then you get to carry your new stainless 44 Mag to WalMart to shop on the weekend.. _If someone doesn't think that's scary, then they're a little misguided.._
> 
> For the original poster; First - get to know the area and venue you'll be covering. If you don't feel "* 100%* " confident of your safety, either don't go, or take someone with you. Second; after listening to all this bravado and tough talk, I'd recommend a good Pepper Spray. Easy to carry, more often than not it's legal, and it'll be a cold day in hell you'll find someone that would be totally immune to it.. All you need is time - time to get away and get some help. You dont' need to kill someone if you dont' have to, and odds are, you could take 50 Carry classes,_ and couldn't do it anyway_ - I mean either mentally or physically.. You're just gonna get hurt - probably more than what the Perp would do.. Stay away from guns if you're not totally and fully trained, *and with some experience handling conflict situations!!*
> 
> Good luck - I actually had to pull once and it wasn't against a human.... I was out in the desert near a populated area - by myself (I thought) and here comes 2 extremely large Rotweilers running and snarling at me down the path..... They kept coming, and about 20' in front of me I had to fire 3 rounds in front of the first one, kicking up some dirt right in front of them, which stopped him/her in their tracks... Followed closely by the girl running yelling "Dont shoot my dogs!".. She didn't feel safe with her aggressive dogs walking them in town, so she brings them out to the desert............ _with me_.



:thumbup:


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## Village Idiot (Mar 28, 2011)

Traveling with a firearm can be a real pain. Just because you can take one on a plane doesn't mean that the destination you're shooting in allows weapons. In WV he have CCW permits that aren't extremely difficult to get, but once a person crosses the border into MD, that's completely illegal. Seeing as how the Eastern panhandle of WV might be equal to about a square that's 25 miles on each side and to go to any decent stores, you have to go to MD, it makes it a pain. It's just not an option you can take everywhere with you.


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## Hollywoodgt (Mar 28, 2011)

Derrel said:


> How about open carry of a deadly weapon on your belt? Seriously. In most US states and municipalities, a non-felon is allowed to openly carry a weapon like a knife or handgun as long as it is not concealed.


 
In my opinion very bad idea for a small person without enough training. I was in Law Enforcement for 3-4 yrs. Carrying a weapon not concealed is asking for trouble. In this case her being a young lady it could be easy to over power her, now they have a weapon and a camera and god know's what happens from there. In my opinion being very aware of where your at and knowing your exit point is very important.Peper spray, handy cell phone with the number pre-dailed, flash on full charge, keys in hand for car door are all very good idea's. A teaser can be another very good way to drop someone. Krav Magra is a very good self defense tool also. Honestly the biggest thing is crowd awareness and exit plan, said to say but you have to be on guard.


*Ottor advise is pretty much spot on. I do not have as much traing as he does, but handle, carrying and knowing when to use a firearm has to be second nature. In alot of case a trained unarmed man can disarm a non trained attacker. Proven case many times. *


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## spacefuzz (Mar 28, 2011)

I agree that you shouldnt need to carry a concealed or unconcealed gun to a photo event. If its dangerous, stay home.  Your best self defense is an awareness of your surroundings. 
And for everyone with a gun, I have 10+ yrs of martial arts training from some of the best in the world.  If I am in arms reach I CAN take your gun. So dont get cocky and remember its always better to avoid a situation than escallate it.  If someone presses the issue blind them with your flash, smash their balls with your tripod, and run.


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## mikehaugen (Mar 28, 2011)

spacefuzz said:


> If someone presses the issue blind them with your flash, smash their balls with your tripod, and run.



What if it's a woman attacker?


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## spacefuzz (Mar 28, 2011)

mikehaugen said:


> spacefuzz said:
> 
> 
> > If someone presses the issue blind them with your flash, smash their balls with your tripod, and run.
> ...


 
Then I wouldnt resist


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## o hey tyler (Mar 28, 2011)

skieur said:


> Forget about a gun.  Get a dog.  There much more fun and some breeds are very easy to train.
> 
> skieur



Awful idea. 

Yeah, they're much more fun and one more thing you have to worry about at a public photo shoot. Plus, why would you want to put a dog in harms way?


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## skieur (Mar 28, 2011)

o hey tyler said:


> skieur said:
> 
> 
> > Forget about a gun. Get a dog. There much more fun and some breeds are very easy to train.
> ...


 
Just the opposite.  Pick the right breed and no one will get close to you or bother you in any way.  Standard or large size schnauzers for example protect family and property without any training being necessary.  I had 2 of them, scare the daylights out of a custom guy at the border, who was being a little too arrogant.  He backed off immediately and sent us through.

skieur


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## table1349 (Mar 29, 2011)

skieur said:


> o hey tyler said:
> 
> 
> > skieur said:
> ...


 
Now there is a good idea, take a potentailly vicious animal or two with you out in public in a situation where your attention is not on the animals.  That is a classic recipe for a nice big lawsuite at the least and an a criminal charge or two at the most.


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## FireGirl_Photography (Mar 29, 2011)

Thanks for the tips, all.  I didn't suspect this would generate so much discussion.

Ottor in particular, thanks.  I've had to draw more than once on bears and wolves (from Montana) and had to shake my head at your dog story.  Some people...!  I do carry a small pepper spray but am looking for something larger.  Manufacturers need to come up with something between a pocket spray and a full-on bear spray.


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## behanana (Mar 30, 2011)

ottor's post (#37) is brings up several good points. I have a carry permit, but I personally don't find it neccessary to carry very often at all, I would perfer to loose my gear than have to make the decission to pull the trigger. His post points out a good time to carry however, when you are out taking pictures of nature when you think you are alone and you biggest threat becomes an animal. Even when you talk to hikers and campers often reasons for carry are because of animals rather than people. 
As for the OP, I'm not going to tell ya what to do, that's your decision, but I will point out that Kimber firearms makes a wonderfull little device called the Peperblaster, it shoots hot, gooey, peper spray 13ft @90mph...just a thought


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## FireGirl_Photography (Mar 30, 2011)

Hot and gooey at 90 mph sounds good to me; thanks for the tip behanana!  I'll be sure to check it out.


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## c.cloudwalker (Mar 30, 2011)

gryphonslair99 said:


> ...take a potentailly vicious animal or two with you out in public...



Although I think Skieur's suggestion is ridiculous I would hate for anyone to think that Schnauzers are dangerous dogs because of your post. They are not. Which, by the way, is why the giants were picked by several european countries police departments years ago when the German Shepherds were found to be just too darn inbred. Aside from the fact that they are highly trainable and intelligent.


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## skieur (Apr 2, 2011)

gryphonslair99 said:


> skieur said:
> 
> 
> > o hey tyler said:
> ...



Not viscious, just protective and your attention is not required.  Pretty hard to justify a charge or law suit against a "scary" dog that does not touch anyone.

skieur


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## skieur (Apr 2, 2011)

c.cloudwalker said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> > ...take a potentailly vicious animal or two with you out in public...
> ...



Not ridiculous at all, if you know how to handle dogs.  Obviously some here know absolutely nothing about dogs.

skieur


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## skieur (Apr 2, 2011)

c.cloudwalker said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> > ...take a potentailly vicious animal or two with you out in public...
> ...


 
No more ridiculous than carrying a concealed weapon and less likely to get arrested.

skieur


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## patrickt (Apr 6, 2011)

I definitely think weak, frightened little people should carry a gun. That way, when someone steals their camera they'll get a gun in the deal, too.

For the OP, make sure your equipment is insured and be prepared to abandon it without hesitation. We had a flood near my home that killed around 160 people. Almost all had warnings but need to save their car. Things can all be replaced.

If possible, go with associates. There's a reason press people travel in packs, aside from their shark tendencies.

Things to avoid. Do not go to a meeting of angry men with unresolved issues with women. Do not go to a beer chugging contest sponsored by AA. Do not go to hockey games. Do not go to any peaceful demonstration sponsored by a union. 

If you're going anywhere as a photojournalist, stay neutral. Do not carry a camera and wave a sign saying, "I'm with these guys." If they're burning a bus, do not help toss gasoline bombs. Very unprofessional.


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## AustinPhotographer (Apr 6, 2011)

Sorry to hear that happened. That's terrible. I do a lot of shoots in downtown Austin, and am always walking around with my camera bag/backpack/etc. I'm a fairly big guy, so I guess it's more rare that I get into those types of altercations, but I usually try to bring an assistant or friend on shoots with me. If you could get one or two of your friends to tag along (especially if its a cool event they'd be interested in going to anyway) you'd definitely be more secure. I try to bring my friends to a lot of events I shoot if I think they'd be interested in going. It makes things a little easier on me, and they usually get free food - which is all my friends really want anyway. That's my two cents. Also, don't forget about low blows.


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## c.cloudwalker (Apr 6, 2011)

skieur said:


> No more ridiculous than carrying a concealed weapon and less likely to get arrested.
> 
> skieur



Yes it is. And that shows YOU know little about dogs. Unlike guns, dogs have a mind, a brain and they sometimes decide to use it their own way. Even with a very good trainer/owner. A gun, on the other hand, only does what its owner tells it to do.

Btw, I own 2 giants. Trained ones.


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## SNBniko (Apr 7, 2011)

gryphonslair99 said:


> Product: Model 60LS
> 
> Its simple, compact and it gets the job done.



That gun shoots like ****.  It kicks hard.  Get the Ruger LCP, it's easier for a woman to carry and it doesn't kick... it's actually pleasant to shoot.


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## SNBniko (Apr 7, 2011)

Oh, I see this has switched to dogs.  Well, 99% of people are incapable of handling a protection trained dog.  99.999% of people are incapable of properly training one.  99.99999% of dogs are not mentally able to be one.  Buying an already trained protection dog is pricey.  You can also be charged with assault with a deadly weapon if your dog bites someone, as they are trained to do it at more psi than an untrained dog.  

That being said, I love schutzhund and French Ring dogs.  

You can train any dog a fake 'watch' command, which in schutzhund is to snap and snarl and act aggressive towards a potential threat without biting.  If a dog knows the command 'speak', get some friends to come over, put your dog on a leash, and have them stand at a distance.  Say 'Watch!' and have your friends ask him/her to speak.  When he/she does, praise.  They key is getting them to bark not facing you... it's almost impossible to teach without a target.  With a friendly dog, he/she'll be 'watching' and barkbarkbarking, but the tail will be wagging and it will be a deterrent more than anything.

Overall, I think maybe you should start going places either armed or with a friend.


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## bruce282 (Apr 7, 2011)

SNBniko said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> > Product: Model 60LS
> ...


 
I'll take the kick of a .357 or .38 +P in a self defense weapon over a .380.

Bruce


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## gsgary (Apr 7, 2011)

I'm just glad i live somewhere it is illegal to carry guns in public, and safe to walk at night


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## bennielou (Apr 7, 2011)

I used to do PJ stuff.  Remember, that camera is TOUGH and it's also HEAVY.  A good bang on the head should stop it.  Sorry you had a problem.


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## Stradawhovious (Apr 7, 2011)

First and foremost. Anyone that tells you to stay away from a dangerous situation obviously doesn't know the frist thing about violent criminals. 

Do those places exist? sure...... but here's the dirty little secret...... Fences, invisible bounradies, train tracks and landmarks are not recognized by violent people as places they can't cross. They can be anywhere, at any time, wearing any hat. Don't ever let anyone tell you that it's YOUR fault that something bad happened because you were in the wrong place. The general public shouldn't be made to be afraid to go outside. If that happens, the criminal element has won.

Here are the 3 things you ABSOLUTELY NEED to bring with you everywhere you go that you might feel is questionable...... (even if you don't, its a good idea. Bad guys don't recognize boundaries)
1. A friend. Preferably Male. (no offense) This is a minimum. The phrase "safety in numbers" isn't just a catchy jingle..... it actually works.
2. A phone
3. SITUATIONAL AWARENESS. Be aware of the things that are happening around you. Pay attention to the people, what they are doing, and what the are saying. Make sure you know the area well. Stay in well lit, well traveled paths if possible, and don't accidentally walk down a dead end alley.

Here is what you may consider taking along

1. A gun. It's been mentioned before. Most major cities have programs for training women in the use of a firearm, especially ones who have had bad encounters or close calls. I know that we do here in Minneapolis.

2. Less than lethal items. Pepper spray is good, but a can of wasp spray is better.  A tazer is good, but only if you know how to use it. I don't recommend them for women because most civilian models require you to get up close nad personal, and your goal is to get away, not give the bastard a hug.

3. A web enabled cell phone with GPS positioning, and a friend that can access your location via the intrawebs. In the event of a SHTF situation, it's nice to know that people can find you.

4. If you feel uncomfortable with a weapon of any kind, get an aresol air horn. If something happens, blow it non-stop, scream like hell and run like the wind. Bad guys generally don't like it when attention is called to them.



Please, find a community education class on self defense. Self defense isn't always about offense........... that's why they call it defense. If you learn to spot these situations, many times they can be avoided by simply walking away.

The problem is that sometimes they can't. 

It sickens me that people, even in this day and age blame the victim for assaults. "You were in the wrong place. You had no business there." Fact is, we shouldn't let the criminals have territory. If we do, it will only grow in size. 

"Just let them take what they want, then they will leave" Yes. After they have taken your gear, raped you and killed you, they will leave. Sounds like good advice.

Evil deserves no consession. Period.


If you'll excuse me, I'm going to go get my flame suit on now.


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## Stradawhovious (Apr 7, 2011)

bruce282 said:


> That gun shoots like ****. It kicks hard. Get the Ruger LCP, it's easier for a woman to carry and it doesn't kick... it's actually pleasant to shoot.





The Ruger LCP is anything but plesant to shoot.  My Ruger SP101 in .357 with full house loads is more comfortable to shoot than that plastic piece of ****.


Which of course is a moot point.  Adrenaline has a funny way of absorbing recoil, and taming muzzle flip.


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## table1349 (Apr 7, 2011)

SNBniko said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> > Product: Model 60LS
> ...



The whole point of the model 60LS was the K.I.S.S. principle.  Keep It Simple STU&%$.  Other wise I would have posted the 3913LS.  One of the best little 9mm ever produced.  Mine is my backup when on duty and my take with me when not.  The 60 is no worse than my old S&W 66. The both are sweet shooters.   There is no reason to practice with full loads.  Target loads are fine and carry it with full loads.  Everyone should shoot it at least once with full loads to get a feel.  Plus the +P 38 round is an excellent self defense round.  No need for a full blown 357 rounds for most people.


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## skieur (Apr 7, 2011)

Not as well trained as mine. Neither my boxer, nor my standard schnauzer needed instructions.  I now have airedales that are even smarter and respond to sentence and multi-instruction commands.

skieur


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## skieur (Apr 7, 2011)

Stradawhovious said:


> First and foremost. Anyone that tells you to stay away from a dangerous situation obviously doesn't know the frist thing about violent criminals.
> 
> Do those places exist? sure...... but here's the dirty little secret...... Fences, invisible bounradies, train tracks and landmarks are not recognized by violent people as places they can't cross. They can be anywhere, at any time, wearing any hat. Don't ever let anyone tell you that it's YOUR fault that something bad happened because you were in the wrong place. The general public shouldn't be made to be afraid to go outside. If that happens, the criminal element has won.
> 
> ...


 
Actually I am very happy to live, where I do NOT have to worry about such dangers!

skieur


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## Stradawhovious (Apr 7, 2011)

skieur said:


> Actually I am very happy to live, where I do NOT have to worry about such dangers!
> 
> skieur


 
Good for you, and I hope it stays that way.

Just remember... complacency is a breeding ground for all kinds of nasty things.


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## bogeyguy (Apr 7, 2011)

How about friending up for your assignments. Nice to have someone watching your back if needed.


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## skieur (Apr 8, 2011)

Stradawhovious said:


> skieur said:
> 
> 
> > Actually I am very happy to live, where I do NOT have to worry about such dangers!
> ...


 
Yes, but my question would be whether you are facing a real probability of danger or just paranoia. I take the normal precautions, but they certainly do not include carrrying weapons.

Of course, if you are short and/or appear vulnerable then you may have to take more precautions or take some martial arts to feel more confident, but a weapon is certainly overkill.

skieur


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## Stradawhovious (Apr 8, 2011)

skieur said:


> Yes, but my question would be whether you are facing a real probability of danger or just paranoia. I take the normal precautions, but they certainly do not include carrrying weapons.
> 
> Of course, if you are short and/or appear vulnerable then you may have to take more precautions or take some martial arts to feel more confident, but a weapon is certainly overkill.
> 
> skieur


 
Good for you.

I hope that for your sake you never run into a situation that makes you change your mind.


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## SNBniko (Apr 10, 2011)

Skieur, come take some photos over here in Gary, Indiana.  I think you'll change your mind.


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## Dominantly (Apr 10, 2011)

I own and carry a hand gun, SOG Seal Pup, ASP Baton, or pepper spray (sometimes all); depending on where I am. I have a ton of experience with each of those, having been through months of schools to learn the ins and outs of them (to include being pepper sprayed a few times).

Each of them has their benefit, and their drawbacks. 
-For the gun, I don't typically carry that in public because it's cons outweigh it's pros (county/mountains/backroads is different). When you pull a gun, you have escalated from the bottom to the top of the protection continuum. Will you fire? Will they fire? Are you justified in firing? Will you kill someone and go to prison? Will they take your gun? Will you hit them or a bystander? No good can come from that.

-Knife. It's lethal, it's intimidating, it's a close range weapon, it's also capable of being lost, and it's not a good self defense option. It will make someone consider the pros vs cons when attacking, but a lot of that will also be based on your size, and the attackers assessment on whether or not they can take it from you or if you'll even use it. If you are up against a group, you have pulled the wrong weapon. Best used for survival, of if you are the Rambo type.

-ASP. It's compact, it hurts like a SOB, it can be lethal, but it can also just be used to bust joints and bruise. When in the right hands it's also intimidating especially deployment. I like it because it allows you to have a weapon that can have a range of possibilities, and a tiny bit more reach. It can also be lost, especially against more than one person. I like it personally as a secondary weapon.

Spray- This is the stuff you want on you. It hurts, it's non lethal, it's cheap, and best of all if you deploy it on a would be attacker by accident, you aren't doing 20 to life. Here is another advantage, if can be used on more that one person. If you find yourself being accosted by a couple people, you can empty your bottle on the group/area (chances are you're getting some too). THe biggest benefit of this is it allows you to overreact and not kill someone and ruin your/their life. If you feel you need more, then combine this with an ASP and you are golden (my preferred combo).
Recommendations for spray- Go with OIL based, with a fog pattern (not stream). I wasn't really fazed by the water based and could function fairly well (enough to continue doing what I wanted), but oil based is a bit different. Fox labs has some of the best stuff out there, and I would personally check their site out.

my .02


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## Dominantly (Apr 10, 2011)

I bet you if someone had a gun on that Greyhound bus during that beheading incident in Canada, it might have went a little different.


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## o hey tyler (Apr 10, 2011)

skieur said:


> Stradawhovious said:
> 
> 
> > skieur said:
> ...


 
Hey Skieur, GUESS WHAT? You're not going to change anyone's mind, and they're obviously not going to change yours.


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## Joshonator (Apr 10, 2011)

One thing i would recommend that I don't think has been mentioned yet is to talk to people in the crowd, introduce yourself, have conversations. They will be more likely to target someone alone who is standing out than someone who is talking to others because they automatically think they are involving two people, even if the conversation is just small talk.


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## Offhand (Apr 18, 2011)

Definitely don't open carry a handgun. You're more likely to be disarmed and shot with your own weapon. Cops are trained in weapon retention and even they still lose it.   Pepper spray is your best bet but carry a couple. A small keychain canister and one of the large cans that are used to repel bears. Should fit in a side pocket of your camera bag. It has an extinguisher valve so very high pressure, high capacity and a lot more range than the aerosol pump versions. It also sprays a bit wide and far so doesn't require total accuracy like a taser and it can incapacitate several people. Also, to add, there are different sized bear pepper spray cans as well from the giant water bottle sized to still big but manageable.

Some people do have more resistance to pepper spray but that doesn't mean they're immune. A high pressure shot in the face will stop them and allow you to run away. The key is never to engage. You want to delay and get away. Take a class or at least buy a of couple extra cans to practice with so you get first-hand experience on how to flick the safety off and spray.


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## reedshots (Apr 18, 2011)

Move to Airzona and add a pistol to your camera bag.  Never leave home without it.


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