# Singer used my photo for her business card....



## DGMPhotography

Hey guys!

First of all: it's my birthday today!! (technically, about 7 minutes ago EDT)

Second... I have a slight issue. This girl, Seva, I've been supporting for years. She's a phenomenal singer and I've been letting her use my images for years for promotion on social media. 
But now she decided to get one of them printed. 

She didn't ask me, didn't pay me, and I'm a little hurt. I'm guessing she just didn't know, and I know she means well, but I could use some advice how to go about this. A "happy birthday" is nice, and using my image is certainly flattering, but I know I can't just let this go. 

Advice appreciated.


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## unpopular

If she asked you, how would you respond? If you would have given her permission, it's probably best just to express your feelings. Just let her know what your expectations are in this case, that you need her to run by usage with you first - and then forgive and forget. Because you'd be ok with this anyway, it's kind of a "no biggie" situation.

If you'd charge her for this usage but want/need to maintain a relationship, make that known - and give her a discount. Again, remind her that the images are your and that you need to discuss terms with her.

If you recovering your license is more important than keeping her as a client, then demand full payment. Start softly and end with an attorney.

Just remember, everything you do has consequences. It doesn't matter if you're in your legal right here or not. You have to think about the PR, too.


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## DGMPhotography

unpopular said:


> If she asked you, how would you respond? If you would have given her permission, it's probably best just to express your feelings. Just let her know what your expectations are in this case, that you need her to run by usage with you first - and then forgive and forget. Because you'd be ok with this anyway, it's kind of a "no biggie" situation.
> 
> If you'd charge her for this usage but want/need to maintain a relationship, make that known - and give her a discount. Again, remind her that the images are your and that you need to discuss terms with her.
> 
> If you recovering your license is more important than keeping her as a client, then demand full payment. Start softly and end with an attorney.
> 
> Just remember, everything you do has consequences. It doesn't matter if you're in your legal right here or not. You have to think about the PR, too.



No, totally. The relationship here is more important than compensation. We're good friends, and she may be my ticket to the big leagues... but using my photo without permission still isn't okay. I'm just trying to figure out what the right words would be for this delicate situation... I want to let her know, but in a way that doesn't make her not want to use my photos again, for fear it would upset me or something.


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## Derrel

I just went to her FB page....WOW! Her promotional photos are very weak...just way too many fuzzy-looking cellphone video grabs and stuff. She's in desperate need of good promotional materials for her FB pages....no wonder she stole that image you took...it's actually decent and sharp, and it works great as  business card artwork. Maybe you can convince her that she desperately NEEDS more and better promotional images?

it looks like she's not fully aware of the need to present a more-professional, sexier, and more involved level of promotional stills and videos. I'm sure she thinks she can make it on her voice alone, but she has great hair, great legs, and youth...but she's not really showing off her beauty or sex appeal. It looks like she's been giving her promotional photos VERY minimal thought or emphasis, not really thinking that *image is everything.
*
Maybe you can be more involved...have her take more time, put more emphasis into PR images.

Oh, and Happy Birthday, man!


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## unpopular

I thin the important thing here is that you permit her to use the image. I'd bring it up, along the lines of "It's not a terribly big deal, because I'd let you anyway, I just really need to know when you use my photographs". See how she responds, reassure her that you're not "angry", just that you need to have maintain your copyright - that it's "nothing personal", and compliment her card, and how professional they look.

Keep it totally casual, but make sure she knows that you have some business that you need to talk with her about.


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## DGMPhotography

unpopular said:


> I thin the important thing here is that you permit her to use the image. I'd bring it up, along the lines of "It's not a terribly big deal, because I'd let you anyway, I just really need to know when you use my photographs". See how she responds, reassure her that you're not "angry", just that you need to have maintain your copyright - that it's "nothing personal", and compliment her card, and how professional they look.
> 
> Keep it totally casual, but make sure she knows that you have some business that you need to talk with her about.



I like that, but where would I take it from there? What would "maintaining" my copyright mean?



Derrel said:


> I just went to her FB page....WOW! Her promotional photos are very weak...just way too many fuzzy-looking cellphone video grabs and stuff. She's in desperate need of good promotional materials for her FB pages....no wonder she stole that image you took...it's actually decent and sharp, and it works great as  business card artwork. Maybe you can convince her that she desperately NEEDS more and better promotional images?
> 
> it looks like she's not fully aware of the need to present a more-professional, sexier, and more involved level of promotional stills and videos. I'm sure she thinks she can make it on her voice alone, but she has great hair, great legs, and youth...but she's not really showing off her beauty or sex appeal. It looks like she's been giving her promotional photos VERY minimal thought or emphasis, not really thinking that *image is everything.
> *
> Maybe you can be more involved...have her take more time, put more emphasis into PR images.
> 
> Oh, and Happy Birthday, man!



Thanks, Derrel! And I agree.. I think the reason she's been holding back in that area is that she is still very self conscious. She comes from a very traditional family and is afraid of what her family would think if she tried exploiting her sex appeal.


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## unpopular

Well. Legally "maintain" isn't the right word. I just think it has the same kind of implication as "protect" but "protect" would imply that she maliciously "stole" your property. She stole from you, but didn't do it in a malicious way - she even wanted to impress you.

So what I mean here in "maintain" is more like maintaining your car - keeping track of things, you know? I guess you could say you need to know where "all your images are" and that it's not about this specifically, but an issue that is more general.

But I'd do everything you can to avoid being legal here. It shouldn't even cross her mind that she did anything "wrong" - at least on a moral level - only that in course of doing business with you, you have to know how the images are being used.

It might get a little weird later down the road if a magazine or television show wanted to publish the images. But honestly, I'd just cross that road later.


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## unpopular

If she's receptive, it might be a good time to think about discussing use contracts. If it comes to this, it's important that she realizes that the benefit of a contract is mutual...

OTOH it might be better just to let her use this particular image however she wants since you've never discussed usage, but more carefully license future products. If this is the direction you take, reassure her that it's "something you're doing now" and that it protects the both of you.

Starting to see what kind of pickle you're in actually. KMH might offer better advise.


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## vintagesnaps

You've been letting her use your photos for years... of course she probably thinks this is OK, why wouldn't she? You've been giving her free photos to promote herself for years, so why would using one of your photos on a card be different than using your photos to promote herself thru social media? It probably seems OK to her to basically continue doing what she's been doing.

You could talk to her about that you're at the point in developing your photography as a business that you're ready to start licensing usage of your work. You could let her know you're pleased she used your photo and would like to talk to her about what's involved in licensing your photos for future use. It might need to be from now on; I don't know that there's any getting this photo back since you already gave her the photo and the cards have already been printed.

Get a contract developed if you don't already and learn how to license usage. If you haven't yet try American Society of Media Photographers or PPA for info. on licensing usage for a specific time frame, for a particular purpose, etc. Share some info. with her so she understands it's the direction you're going in developing your own work in photography. This is really just one photo on one set of cards, so now is probably a good time to talk about future use as you continue with your photography and she continues with her singing and performing. 

And have a happy birthday!


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## vfotog

you've been supporting her for years? I assume that means free images. You are ok with social media usage but apparently nothing else. Do you have anything in writing? I'm sure that to her, it's all the same. Even if you give something away, if you want to restrict usage, you really do need to put it down in writing. Going forward, put it on paper.


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## waday

Happy Birthday! 



vintagesnaps said:


> You've been letting her use your photos for years... of course she probably thinks this is OK, why wouldn't she? You've been giving her free photos to promote herself for years, so why would using one of your photos on a card be different than using your photos to promote herself thru social media? It probably seems OK to her to basically continue doing what she's been doing.
> 
> You could talk to her about that you're at the point in developing your photography as a business that you're ready to start licensing usage of your work. You could let her know you're pleased she used your photo and would like to talk to her about what's involved in licensing your photos for future use. It might need to be from now on; I don't know that there's any getting this photo back since you already gave her the photo and the cards have already been printed.



Definitely agree with this. Because you've been letting her use your photos for so long, you've set a precedent. Next time you take photos, or even after this blows over, you should talk to her about contracts and whatnot for the future. For this photo/time, I'd swallow my pride and chalk it up to experience.


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## robbins.photo

DGMPhotography said:


> unpopular said:
> 
> 
> 
> If she asked you, how would you respond? If you would have given her permission, it's probably best just to express your feelings. Just let her know what your expectations are in this case, that you need her to run by usage with you first - and then forgive and forget. Because you'd be ok with this anyway, it's kind of a "no biggie" situation.
> 
> If you'd charge her for this usage but want/need to maintain a relationship, make that known - and give her a discount. Again, remind her that the images are your and that you need to discuss terms with her.
> 
> If you recovering your license is more important than keeping her as a client, then demand full payment. Start softly and end with an attorney.
> 
> Just remember, everything you do has consequences. It doesn't matter if you're in your legal right here or not. You have to think about the PR, too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, totally. The relationship here is more important than compensation. We're good friends, and she may be my ticket to the big leagues... but using my photo without permission still isn't okay. I'm just trying to figure out what the right words would be for this delicate situation... I want to let her know, but in a way that doesn't make her not want to use my photos again, for fear it would upset me or something.
Click to expand...

Well I'm probably in the minority here but I'd say this would be a good time to let sleeping dogs lie.

Anything said about the business card photo is likely to be taken the wrong way.  Look at her message to you, she's wishing you a happy birthday and showing off the card thinking you'll be thrilled.

So you have to decide what's more important here, the business aspect or the friendship, and it sounds like to me you've already made that choice.

So yes, you have every right to object and clarify and etc etc, but I don't think you'll end up getting a result you want if you go there.

My 2 cents worth.  

Sent from my 306SH using Tapatalk


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## Braineack

I'd at least let her know.

something along the lines of : Yo, im a pro too.  Next time let me know first--I have no problems with you using it--but for stuff like this It's MY picture.  I hold the rights to usage.


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## unpopular

robbins.photo said:


> Anything said about the business card photo is likely to be taken the wrong way.



If I can talk to one of my best friends about having sex with my girlfriend without me being around and manage to keep it cordial, anything is possible.

Huh. Maybe that wasn't the best example.


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## runnah

Are you photoing as a full time career or just for fun? If it's just for fun I'd let it all slide. It's just a business card, not an album cover. Besides building good relationships is the key to being successful. Let this slide and maybe she will come to you with more work that you can actually charge her for.

Learn from crack dealers, the first hit is free.


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## tirediron

DGMPhotography said:


> ... I've been supporting for years. She's a phenomenal singer and I've been letting her use my images for years for promotion on social media.


I would say that she can make a strong case for implied consent.  IMO, this particular ship has sailed, and anything you try and do retroactively may very well have a negative effect.  My approach would be to simply say, "Hey, cool - great looking card!" and then lead into a discussion of future use.  If this young lady is, or may go placs, you need paperwork, and you need it quickly.


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## DGMPhotography

robbins.photo said:


> DGMPhotography said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> unpopular said:
> 
> 
> 
> If she asked you, how would you respond? If you would have given her permission, it's probably best just to express your feelings. Just let her know what your expectations are in this case, that you need her to run by usage with you first - and then forgive and forget. Because you'd be ok with this anyway, it's kind of a "no biggie" situation.
> 
> If you'd charge her for this usage but want/need to maintain a relationship, make that known - and give her a discount. Again, remind her that the images are your and that you need to discuss terms with her.
> 
> If you recovering your license is more important than keeping her as a client, then demand full payment. Start softly and end with an attorney.
> 
> Just remember, everything you do has consequences. It doesn't matter if you're in your legal right here or not. You have to think about the PR, too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, totally. The relationship here is more important than compensation. We're good friends, and she may be my ticket to the big leagues... but using my photo without permission still isn't okay. I'm just trying to figure out what the right words would be for this delicate situation... I want to let her know, but in a way that doesn't make her not want to use my photos again, for fear it would upset me or something.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I'm probably in the minority here but I'd say this would be a good time to let sleeping dogs lie.
> 
> Anything said about the business card photo is likely to be taken the wrong way.  Look at her message to you, she's wishing you a happy birthday and showing off the card thinking you'll be thrilled.
> 
> So you have to decide what's more important here, the business aspect or the friendship, and it sounds like to me you've already made that choice.
> 
> So yes, you have every right to object and clarify and etc etc, but I don't think you'll end up getting a result you want if you go there.
> 
> My 2 cents worth.
> 
> Sent from my 306SH using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


I thought about doing that as well.. Just forget about it. But then I feel like I'd be establishing even more precedent, which isn't what I want. 



Braineack said:


> I'd at least let her know.
> 
> something along the lines of : Yo, im a pro too.  Next time let me know first--I have no problems with you using it--but for stuff like this It's MY picture.  I hold the rights to usage.



Yeah, that's what I'm thinking... the wordsmithing is the crucial part here.


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## unpopular

tirediron said:


> I would say that she can make a strong case for implied consent.



Is there legal precedent for this? I can kind of see it going both ways.

As far as "this boat has sailed" I think that there is problems with that. If the boat has sailed, then it has sailed for the image - not for the business card. If you let this slide without comment, it could only potentially get worse for the OP. What if she uses it to promote specific concerts for which she's being reimbursed? What about album art?

It seems like it was "no big deal" when the image was being used to promote herself while nobody was listening (let's face it, social media marketing is a joke). However, now she's using it to actively seek work.

If she starts using the image to promote gigs she already has landed, that could mean the image has really run out from under him, and if there is implied consent, then it would certainly be harder to resolve later.

If OP can deal with the ship being sailed, then the ship has sailed completely - and it's time to step up her promo package ASAP - and with it, a clear license.

This is why I do everything for hire. Copyright management royalties is too much of a headache.


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## DGMPhotography

tirediron said:


> DGMPhotography said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... I've been supporting for years. She's a phenomenal singer and I've been letting her use my images for years for promotion on social media.
> 
> 
> 
> I would say that she can make a strong case for implied consent.  IMO, this particular ship has sailed, and anything you try and do retroactively may very well have a negative effect.  My approach would be to simply say, "Hey, cool - great looking card!" and then lead into a discussion of future use.  If this young lady is, or may go placs, you need paperwork, and you need it quickly.
Click to expand...


Well our actual agreement to date would be that she credits me. Either with my watermark, or verbally (on social media), and the card has neither.


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## Braineack

extra points for use of "yo" and "bro"


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## unpopular

DGMPhotography said:


> Well our actual agreement to date would be that she credits me. Either with my watermark, or verbally (on social media), and the card has neither.



Well, that's a GREAT place to start the conversation! Just make it clear to her that if she wants to use the image in the future without credit, she needs to talk to you first. If she wonders why, flatter her with the idea of solo albums and that picture on it, and how you'd need to be reimbursed for such a thing. But make sure she knows, 100%, that this instance wasn't a big deal and you'd be ok with it anyway.

Honestly though, I doubt you'll have to go into those hypotheticals.


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## waday

DGMPhotography said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DGMPhotography said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... I've been supporting for years. She's a phenomenal singer and I've been letting her use my images for years for promotion on social media.
> 
> 
> 
> I would say that she can make a strong case for implied consent.  IMO, this particular ship has sailed, and anything you try and do retroactively may very well have a negative effect.  My approach would be to simply say, "Hey, cool - great looking card!" and then lead into a discussion of future use.  If this young lady is, or may go placs, you need paperwork, and you need it quickly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well our actual agreement to date would be that she credits me. Either with my watermark, or verbally (on social media), and the card has neither.
Click to expand...

Sorry to be blunt, but if you want to completely destroy your relationship with her, I'd say go this route.


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## unpopular

You think? Honestly, I think she'd understand, it's what she agreed to. So long as it's absolutely clear that she knows he's not angry about it, it doesn't really sound like he is.

The trick when dealing with these sort of things is to remember that people genuinely feel that their portrayal is "theirs", and I think there is a valid emotion to that, and in other places the law does protect it.

It's the photographer's job to respect sense of ownership of self, while also protecting what is rightfully theirs. This is the difference between a photographer I'd hire and one who belongs to the PPA.


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## astroNikon

As Derrel brought up about more PR stuff  ... You may want to use it as a springboard to get her on a contract for you to do more PR shots for her to get her social media stuff up to 'snuff and your name will get out there more as watermarked images.


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## tirediron

unpopular said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would say that she can make a strong case for implied consent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there legal precedent for this? I can kind of see it going both ways..
Click to expand...

There certainly is in Canada, I assume that something similar exists in the US, but perhaps not.  In essence "implied consent" is an act or action which someone has allowed to happen for an extended period of time without saying or doing anything to indicate that they find it unacceptable or inappropriate.  Now that the OP has told us that there was an agreement in place, that does change things somewhat.


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## runnah

unpopular said:


> It's the photographer's job to respect sense of ownership of self, while also protecting what is rightfully theirs. This is the difference between a photographer I'd hire and one who belongs to the PPA.



But it's a good businessman's job to know when to give the potential large customer a break on a small purchase so they come back for more. You nickel and dime someone for everything they find someone else.


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## waday

DGMPhotography said:


> Well our actual agreement to date would be that she credits me. Either with my watermark, or verbally (on social media), and the card has neither.


Just a thought, did she post this publicly on your profile, or via a private message? If publicly, she technically provided you credit via social media.


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## DGMPhotography

waday said:


> DGMPhotography said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well our actual agreement to date would be that she credits me. Either with my watermark, or verbally (on social media), and the card has neither.
> 
> 
> 
> Just a thought, did she post this publicly on your profile, or via a private message? If publicly, she technically provided you credit via social media.
Click to expand...


This was on my profile.. and yes, but not on the card itself, where she will be handing them out in person. Unless she plans to vocally tell them Daryll Morgan took the picture every time she hands out a card.


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## waday

DGMPhotography said:


> waday said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DGMPhotography said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well our actual agreement to date would be that she credits me. Either with my watermark, or verbally (on social media), and the card has neither.
> 
> 
> 
> Just a thought, did she post this publicly on your profile, or via a private message? If publicly, she technically provided you credit via social media.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This was on my profile.. and yes, but not on the card itself, where she will be handing them out in person. Unless she plans to vocally tell them Daryll Morgan took the picture every time she hands out a card.
Click to expand...

Than there is a problem with your agreement. Because, she posted a photo of your business card crediting the photo to you. If you don't think that's credit, and decide to take it a step further, than it'll be your word against her's based on whether or not she verbally told someone that you took the photo. This can get very hairy very fast.

The best advice so far:


runnah said:


> But it's a good businessman's job to know when to give the potential large customer a break on a small purchase so they come back for more. You nickel and dime someone for everything they find someone else.


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## DGMPhotography

waday said:


> DGMPhotography said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> waday said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DGMPhotography said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well our actual agreement to date would be that she credits me. Either with my watermark, or verbally (on social media), and the card has neither.
> 
> 
> 
> Just a thought, did she post this publicly on your profile, or via a private message? If publicly, she technically provided you credit via social media.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This was on my profile.. and yes, but not on the card itself, where she will be handing them out in person. Unless she plans to vocally tell them Daryll Morgan took the picture every time she hands out a card.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Than there is a problem with your agreement. Because, she posted a photo of your business card crediting the photo to you. If you don't think that's credit, and decide to take it a step further, than it'll be your word against her's based on whether or not she verbally told someone that you took the photo. This can get very hairy very fast.
> 
> The best advice so far:
> 
> 
> runnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> But it's a good businessman's job to know when to give the potential large customer a break on a small purchase so they come back for more. You nickel and dime someone for everything they find someone else.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


I think you're looking at this from the wrong perspective. But I appreciate your feedback.


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## unpopular

runnah said:


> unpopular said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's the photographer's job to respect sense of ownership of self, while also protecting what is rightfully theirs. This is the difference between a photographer I'd hire and one who belongs to the PPA.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But it's a good businessman's job to know when to give the potential large customer a break on a small purchase so they come back for more. You nickel and dime someone for everything they find someone else.
Click to expand...


Protecting a copyright doesn't need to involve collecting fees. That certainly helps keep the expectations crystal clear, even if it'd be something ridiculous like $5, but it's hardly necessary.


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## robbins.photo

Well have a nice long chat with her, hurt her feelings and make her uncomfortable with the thought of using your images again because she won't want to hurt your feelings.

Or just chalk it up to one if those things, write it off and hope she will remember you if she does get rich and famous.  

But I'm just saying that option a is not likely to turn out well for either of you and most likely won't work the way you want it too no matter how you approach it.

With that I'll just wish you luck.

Sent from my 306SH using Tapatalk


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## waday

DGMPhotography said:


> waday said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DGMPhotography said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> waday said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DGMPhotography said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well our actual agreement to date would be that she credits me. Either with my watermark, or verbally (on social media), and the card has neither.
> 
> 
> 
> Just a thought, did she post this publicly on your profile, or via a private message? If publicly, she technically provided you credit via social media.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This was on my profile.. and yes, but not on the card itself, where she will be handing them out in person. Unless she plans to vocally tell them Daryll Morgan took the picture every time she hands out a card.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Than there is a problem with your agreement. Because, she posted a photo of your business card crediting the photo to you. If you don't think that's credit, and decide to take it a step further, than it'll be your word against her's based on whether or not she verbally told someone that you took the photo. This can get very hairy very fast.
> 
> The best advice so far:
> 
> 
> runnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> But it's a good businessman's job to know when to give the potential large customer a break on a small purchase so they come back for more. You nickel and dime someone for everything they find someone else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think you're looking at this from the wrong perspective. But I appreciate your feedback.
Click to expand...

Hey, no problem. Glad I could provide a different perspective to the situation.

If you do end up talking with her, good luck and let us know how it goes.


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## KmH

The 'hook' for a copyright/usage conversation with her is right there on her business card - _Songwriter_
If she doesn't already know about and think about copyright relative to songs she writes, at some point she will likely want to know about copyright.


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## Derrel

KmH said:
			
		

> The 'hook' for a copyright/usage conversation with her is right there on her business card - _Songwriter_
> If she doesn't already know about and think about copyright relative to songs she writes, at some point she will likely want to know about copyright.



Yeah...maybe when you discuss this with her, you ask her if it'd be okay if you ripped one of her for-sale CD's to MP3, then burn it to cheap 19-cent CD discs from Fry's, with the intention of giving away hundreds and hundreds of copies of it to random people, because, you know, _it's just such a great CD of songs, and you really think the singer is talented. _

Maybe a lightbulb will flip on?


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## DGMPhotography

Thanks for the advice and feedback, everyone. I truly do appreciate it. 

I spoke with her about it, and we're cool. She understands. She assured me that I'm still her go-to photographer, and that she will be sure to ask me in the future when she wants to use my photos. Hopefully she isn't upset or affronted by this whole thing. She didn't seem like it, but there's no way to tell for now, I suppose. 

She's a great girl, she just doesn't think about the business side of things. It's all about the music for her. Which is fine, but I agree that image is everything.


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## robbins.photo

DGMPhotography said:


> Thanks for the advice and feedback, everyone. I truly do appreciate it.
> 
> I spoke with her about it, and we're cool. She understands. She assured me that I'm still her go-to photographer, and that she will be sure to ask me in the future when she wants to use my photos. Hopefully she isn't upset or affronted by this whole thing. She didn't seem like it, but there's no way to tell for now, I suppose.
> 
> She's a great girl, she just doesn't think about the business side of things. It's all about the music for her. Which is fine, but I agree that image is everything.



Guess the only question left is how does your mechanic feel about all of this?


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## unpopular

robbins.photo said:


> have a nice long chat with her, hurt her feelings and make her uncomfortable



Part of me wonders how much of this debate, at least with the guys, reflects our respective rapport with the opposite gender.


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## snerd

unpopular said:


> robbins.photo said:
> 
> 
> 
> have a nice long chat with her, hurt her feelings and make her uncomfortable
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Part of me wonders how much of this debate, at least with the guys, reflects our respective rapport with the opposite gender.
Click to expand...

Yep................ Neanderthal that I am, even "I" was waiting for Lenny to let 'em have it!


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## robbins.photo

unpopular said:


> robbins.photo said:
> 
> 
> 
> have a nice long chat with her, hurt her feelings and make her uncomfortable
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Part of me wonders how much of this debate, at least with the guys, reflects our respective rapport with the opposite gender.
Click to expand...


Quite a bit I would imagine.  Father of 3 daughters.  Been down that road too many times to count.


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## DGMPhotography

I'm confused.


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## unpopular

I think we all are to some extent.


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## KmH

DGMPhotography said:


> she just doesn't think about the business side of things. It's all about the music for her.


Disconnect.


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## thereyougo!

I'd say something along the lines of:

"Really glad that you love the image and the business card looks great with it.  Could you let me know if there is any interest from the media on the image?"

I think anything formal with her is going to be a real mood killer.  Use the situation to suggest a paid for PR shoot, then treat this as a promotional freebie.  

Be very formal with secondary users of the image...


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## DGMPhotography

thereyougo! said:


> I'd say something along the lines of:
> 
> "Really glad that you love the image and the business card looks great with it.  Could you let me know if there is any interest from the media on the image?"
> 
> I think anything formal with her is going to be a real mood killer.  Use the situation to suggest a paid for PR shoot, then treat this as a promotional freebie.
> 
> Be very formal with secondary users of the image...



You're a little late to the party, friend, but thank you.


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## zombiesniper

I would say only the OP knows the personality of the singer.

If this person has a good head and also values the relationship which I assume she does from the posting of the card then talking to her as a friend explaining the situation should go over fine.

If on the other hand she tends to be emotional with minor perceived confrontations then I would say leave it alone.




AND I couldn't let this one go.



unpopular said:


> If I can talk to one of my best friends about having sex with my girlfriend without me being around and manage to keep it cordial, anything is possible.



Wanna be friends


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## Didereaux

You said"...I've been letting her use my images for years."   What the h*11 is your problem?  You expect her to read your mind?


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## thereyougo!

Didereaux said:


> You said"...I've been letting her use my images for years." What the h*11 is your problem? You expect her to read your mind?





Didereaux said:


> You said"...I've been letting her use my images for years." What the h*11 is your problem? You expect her to read your mind?


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## thereyougo!

thereyougo! said:


> Didereaux said:
> 
> 
> 
> You said"...I've been letting her use my images for years." What the h*11 is your problem? You expect her to read your mind?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Didereaux said:
> 
> 
> 
> You said"...I've been letting her use my images for years." What the h*11 is your problem? You expect her to read your mind?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


This forum doesn't seem to work in the safari of an iPhone.  It just won't allow you to type anything...


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## jovince3000

"Hey Seva, nice card! I'm glad that you liked my picture enough to promote yourself with it! Since we're talking about it, can I have a few minutes of your time I'd like to talk to you about something? [Yes of course! my You look serious lol] Well yes, actually I am currently in process of expanding my photography career and I was wondering if you would be interested in a more official partnership with me concerning your photo advertisement. I'd like to think you like my picture because you've been using them for years and even on your new awesome cards, it would be beneficial for me to promote myself and I could help you promote yourself as well with quality pictures in exchange. It would also spare you from having some creepy guy photographing you when you become a celebrity and all lol"

And then after you discus your terms ( Don't let anyone here or anywhere else tell you what they are, this is for you to decide).

This is the basics, reshape it the way you want but this way you ;

-Never mentioned that card AS A REASON for why you suddenly want to change the relationship. Sorry for language, but if you want to keep that relationship or even improve it, suck it up, you're never mentioning that card ever again after that and you never get a penny off of it.
-There is a good chance you will have gained a strong ally in your photographic career.
-Win
-Do not lose a friend

If by any chances she say no. Then might be the time to get a little pushy, but looking at your current relationship I highly doubt you will come to this point.


Edit : Welp, Sorry I'm late. Hey, maybe someone will find it useful for "next time"


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## BadRad

I think that's your point of entry ... the 'underststanding' (written or not) that she use a watermark or social media credit ... she got away from the origina intent, which I would suggest is a breach of contract, no matter how informal, it was understood.  So, perhaps you can kill two birds here ... 1) refresh her memory about the agreement, and 2) ask her to help you redirect or fine tune that into an agreement for your future clients.   I often toss out a freebie or 'sampler' which clearly becomes an entry to full payment billings, based on mututal understanding.  I think the mututal understanding here was implied, but thin.  Time to ask for her help, not her whole wallet.


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## robbins.photo

And this years winner of the "Slowest moving bandwagon award".... 

Lol


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## mishele

Happy BIRTHDAY, SWEETS!!!!
I hope it was a good one!!


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## DGMPhotography

mishele said:


> Happy BIRTHDAY, SWEETS!!!!
> I hope it was a good one!!



Thank you, Mishele!


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## Harry1965

Honesty is the best policy when in doubt. Give her a call and let her know I said your beautiful and that it's you not her on the card. And ask her, what's that about?

From there work it out together always keeping in mind the best option is to err on the side of trying to do the best thing by her not you.

This doesn't mean be a door mat ... It means letting her know honestly how you feel about it and that she can't walk over you like that but that together you can work something out that you are both happy with.

Happy Birthday by the way ..  Although I'm sure it's more than a few minutes past that time now!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DGMPhotography

Lol... a bit of a necrobump buddy, but thanks!


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## e.rose

Its still promotional use. Let it go. It's a business card.

Come back when she's used them for packaging on records she's selling and making money off of.


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## DGMPhotography

e.rose said:


> Its still promotional use. Let it go. It's a business card.
> 
> Come back when she's used them for packaging on records she's selling and making money off of.



A tad late there, Rose. Only one who hasn't let this go is you


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## e.rose

DGMPhotography said:


> e.rose said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its still promotional use. Let it go. It's a business card.
> 
> Come back when she's used them for packaging on records she's selling and making money off of.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A tad late there, Rose. Only one who hasn't let this go is you
Click to expand...

Hey, it came up in my feed. It's not my fault the Taptalk algorithm sucks. Lol


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## zepeur1

I have used photos of myself, taken by my photographer friend, for business purpose, with her copyright info. Maybe you need to ask her to add your copyright  info for the photo?

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk


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## DGMPhotography

Guys... stahppppp. It's over. Lol.


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## waday

Bump.


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## Braineack

You should use her image on your business card.


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## DGMPhotography

omigosh haha


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## waday

robbins.photo said:


> DGMPhotography said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the advice and feedback, everyone. I truly do appreciate it.
> 
> I spoke with her about it, and we're cool. She understands. She assured me that I'm still her go-to photographer, and that she will be sure to ask me in the future when she wants to use my photos. Hopefully she isn't upset or affronted by this whole thing. She didn't seem like it, but there's no way to tell for now, I suppose.
> 
> She's a great girl, she just doesn't think about the business side of things. It's all about the music for her. Which is fine, but I agree that image is everything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guess the only question left is how does your mechanic feel about all of this?
Click to expand...

Did we ever get an answer to this question?


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## astroNikon

Braineack said:


> You should use her image on your business card.


That's the best idea !!


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## waday

astroNikon said:


> Braineack said:
> 
> 
> 
> You should use her image on your business card.
> 
> 
> 
> That's the best idea !!
Click to expand...

I wonder if business would increase with her image on your card? You should print a few out, just in case.


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## desertrattm2r12

I've found that attractive female actors, singers, whatever, have a blind spot where compensation owed to others is concerned, and they believe they just have the right to anything they want. (Guys are different, they know durn well they owe you but will simply just cheat you out of it). It's your call -- do you want to be a doormat or someone everyone recognizes as a professional who must be paid.


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## cauzimme

desertrattm2r12 said:


> I've found that attractive female actors, singers, whatever, have a blind spot where compensation owed to others is concerned, and they believe they just have the right to anything they want. (Guys are different, they know durn well they owe you but will simply just cheat you out of it). It's your call -- do you want to be a doormat or someone everyone recognizes as a professional who must be paid.



You actually have a point, when guys contacts me they offer free photoshoot, too bad for them that I have experience and can judge from their crappy port that they are more pornographer than other things... Girls get offer lots of free shooting, so they kinda expect a bit too much sometimes... Some girl recently act that way, even if I'm a long term friend; Yeah but it's good to your portfolio, you know me, we have chemistry come on. By now I just told them my rates straight, or that if I want to do creative, I'll pay for real model... You have insurance, your investing money in your gear, you have a business number, invoice clients, retouch images, shoot the image, well I think you deserve a pay at the end... Especially since she use your photo professionnaly... You're part of her branding... 

Thing is, you sould'nt be affraid talking about money, everybody needs to pay their bills. Whats your average cost, what do you need by month to get by, how much are you investing, you have to become a business man, don't be affraid or guilty about money!


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## unpopular

It is the thread that never ends, it goes on and on my friend
some people, started digging not knowing what it was
then they'll keep on posting forever just because
It is the thread that never ends, it goes on and on my friend...


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## snowbear

Keep it going, like 



Spoiler: this train wreck



Leaderboard | Photography Forum


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## ruggedshutter

Man, I forgot about this thread.  Thanks for the reminder


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## elfonamouse

I would tell her that you were glad she chose your image to use on her business card. Explain to her that as you and she are friends you would have gladly given her permission. But that, for her own benefit, especially as she becomes more successful, she shouldn't assume others would be so generous and it's best to ask first.


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## DGMPhotography

Way to necrobump lol. But as it turns out, that friend has just recently made it past the first round of American Idol.


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## pixmedic

use one of her songs on your business page, then post a link to that page on her social media site giving her credit for the song.


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## pixmedic

Also...




Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk


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## DGMPhotography

pixmedic said:


> use one of her songs on your business page, then post a link to that page on her social media site giving her credit for the song.



Haha good idea


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## snowbear

pixmedic said:


> View attachment 156403


Noobs


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## unpopular

Log in just to see what's up, and this thread shows up on my notifications.

Glad to see it's still going! Keep up the good work everyone!


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## DGMPhotography

Nothing to see here...


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