# Quick!  Can someone teach me Calculus!?!



## Senor Hound (Jul 7, 2008)

LOL

Seriously, though, I've been doing a lot of self-analysis and have come to the conclusion through some personality tests and some career counselors that becoming an civil engineer would be tons of fun.  The problem is, I don't know anything about calculus other than limits.  I took my last Algebra class about 4 years ago, and I don't know if I remember any of it either.

Can someone recommend a book or website that could help me out to determine whether I should take a pre-calc class or just jump right in?  I know I can do this (I'm a pretty smart cat when it comes to math), but I just am worried, and don't know how much refreshment I'll need.

I'm also taking this at a community college, so I'm thinking my class size will be smaller than that at a large university.  But I don't know if there are any tutors at my school.


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## flygning (Jul 7, 2008)

I wouldn't count on class sizes being much smaller for a calc class-- I've taken them at both the university and community college and they've always been about 20-30 people in class.

I would recommend a pre-calc class.  No matter how smart you are, it is no fun to play catch-up the entire semester.  Getting yourself up to speed will let you concentrate on what is being taught, not the basics.


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## Corry (Jul 7, 2008)

I. 
Hate. 
Math.  

I am taking an intermediate Algebra class right now for the summer semester.  I suck at math.  Always have.  I hate it.  I'm already playing catch up because it's an accelerated class and I SUCK! 

Sorry I can't help you with your question, and that I used your thread to vent.  

I'd be surprised if your college didn't have tutors . . . then again, my community college is pretty exceptional.  I can very easily get tutors in just about anything I need it in, for free.  Math and English being the easiest to find help with.


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## Senor Hound (Jul 7, 2008)

flygning said:


> I wouldn't count on class sizes being much smaller for a calc class-- I've taken them at both the university and community college and they've always been about 20-30 people in class.
> 
> I would recommend a pre-calc class.  No matter how smart you are, it is no fun to play catch-up the entire semester.  Getting yourself up to speed will let you concentrate on what is being taught, not the basics.



So no books or internet sites to help out with Calculus?


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## flygning (Jul 8, 2008)

A Cliff's Quick Review sort of thing for algebra and pre-calc will help get you up to speed on that stuff-- even if it isn't difficult, it is easy to get rusty.  

The REA Problem Solver series will help once you're taking calc.  It has examples of pretty much every type of problem you might encounter, and gives you a different perspective on how to work it out.

Also remember that engineers need to study physics.  Both those series of books have physics books as well.  

If I recall, http://mathworld.wolfram.com/ is pretty extensive.  They've also got physics somewhere.  If you search for online differential and integral calculators you'll find some pretty good tools to help you out.  There are also open source (free!) Maple/Mathmatica replacements.  

I remember finding a lot of resources just by typing in whatever problem I was stuck on, and there'd always be a link to some neat site that walks you through it.


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## Kazoo (Jul 8, 2008)

Pick up a Schaum's Outline book, they always had interesting problems to solve. For someone who also was not a math fan (I hear ya Corry!) it was pretty good.


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## clarinetJWD (Jul 8, 2008)

Review Pre-calc on your own... Unfortunately, I don't have a book reccomendation, pre-calc was 7 years ago for me, and my HS didn't exactly choose their books well.  As for reviewing in a class, you might be shooting yourself in the foot unnecessarily.  I had Calc BC (or I and II from a college perspective) in HS, but decided to go back and take Calc II again so I didn't have to jump right into III or abstract algebras, and it turned out to be an unnecessarily difficult weeding class.  I'd be a bit afriad that Pre-calc would be the same thing in a community college, so my advice is if you're looking at a class for review, either audit it, or do it on your own.


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## kellylindseyphotography (Jul 8, 2008)

i'd type in "free calc resources" in google and see what pops up   Good luck with your schooling!


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## Rhys (Jul 8, 2008)

Calculas? Look up integration and differentiation. I did calculas hence it's not my favourite subject - too darned hard.


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## BoblyBill (Jul 8, 2008)

I would say this about calc. Calc is hard if you are terrible at algrebra. In calc I, there is really only two concepts: derivates, and intregals; and they are opposites so it's kind of like multiplying and dividing. For example, the derivative of x^2 is 2x and the intregal of 2x is x^2+C (the C is there for technical reasons but they basically opposites). So if you can understand that a dervative deals with rates (speeds) and intregals deals with areas, then you will have a pretty good grasp of calc I. Now the algebra is what can kick your butt. I had many problems that would take me a half a page to simplify (in Calc II I had 6 page problems).


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## Village Idiot (Jul 8, 2008)

I are good at math.

I are not good at Engrish.

U shud look n2 soshul injin eering. I here it's moor profit table than sivle injin eering.


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## Corry (Jul 8, 2008)

Village Idiot said:


> I are good at math.
> 
> I are not good at Engrish.
> 
> U shud look n2 soshul injin eering. I here it's moor profit table than sivle injin eering.



And I'm your opposite!  English is my strong suit!  (just don't judge that by my posts here . . . I'm usually careless with them)


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## Big Mike (Jul 8, 2008)

In college, I was top of my class in all my math and calculus courses...but I haven't seen anything like that since and probably couldn't solve a calc equation now (without looking up how to do it).

I'm sure the internet is filled with plenty of calc help...it just may take a bit of effort to find the good stuff.  You could probably even find a math/calc forum or two...those nerds have been on the internet longer than any of us :er:


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## Unimaxium (Jul 8, 2008)

This is supposed to be a pretty good introduction to the concepts of calc.


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## Slaphead (Jul 8, 2008)

Buy a TI-89/Voyage 200 (same thing practically) or perhaps if your going into engineering an HP50G. Both will do the hard work of calculus for you (within the remit of a math course), but you'll still need to know what your doing and why your doing it.


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## monkeykoder (Jul 8, 2008)

Check out the used book stores in your area and see if they have any pre-calculus books you'll spend like $5 and it will tell you if you're ready or not.  Math is one of those subjects where anything pre-upper division hasn't changed since Newton+Leibniz.


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## Big Bully (Jul 8, 2008)

Rhys said:


> Calculas? Look up integration and differentiation. I did calculas hence it's not my favourite subject - too darned hard.


 


Don't tell me its hard!! I have to take it in the spring semester!


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## clarinetJWD (Jul 8, 2008)

I've used a TI-89, and it's so much different from every other TI model, I just couldn't do it, and went with my trusty TI-86.  It was a moot point anyways, because the math department at Hopkins disallows all calculators on tests...


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## monkeykoder (Jul 8, 2008)

I've found calculators to be disadvantageous in any math class.


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## Big Bully (Jul 8, 2008)

monkeykoder said:


> I've found calculators to be disadvantageous in any math class.


 
Only because you are beyond a brain when it comes to math. I swear you are a human calculator. No wonder you don't like the machines. They take your job away.



clarinetJWD said:


> I've used a TI-89, and it's so much different from every other TI model, I just couldn't do it, and went with my trusty TI-86. It was a moot point anyways, because the math department at *Hopkins disallows all calculators on tests*...


 

Doesn't that qualify as cruel and unusual punishment?


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## clarinetJWD (Jul 8, 2008)

Big Bully said:


> Only because you are beyond a brain when it comes to math. I swear you are a human calculator. No wonder you don't like the machines. They take your job away.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



no, actually.  If they allow calculators, Profs don't worry about how messt answers are, so you're never quite sure.  Nearly every calculator free answer will be a relatively friendly number, so you can feel better about it...if you get that far


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## Senor Hound (Jul 8, 2008)

I just found out my school DOESN'T offer Calculus.  Its in the catalog, but they just never have classes for it.  Not even Precalculus! 

I'll have to figure something else out.  This sucks.


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## Corry (Jul 8, 2008)

clarinetJWD said:


> no, actually.  If they allow calculators, Profs don't worry about how messt answers are, so you're never quite sure.  Nearly every calculator free answer will be a relatively friendly number, so you can feel better about it...if you get that far




^^ Joe here is the one that took math classes with names that hurt my head, like Signals and Systems, and Fields, Matter, and Waves.  

Ow.


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## monkeykoder (Jul 9, 2008)

Corry said:


> ^^ Joe here is the one that took math classes with names that hurt my head, like Signals and Systems, and Fields, Matter, and Waves.
> 
> Ow.




#1 if a school doesn't offer calculus you need to go to a different school it is absolutely necessary for most science majors.  
#2 Those are not math classes they are either physics or engineering classes math classes have such names as Analysis, Abstract Algebra, Set Theory, Number Theory and the like...


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## Corry (Jul 9, 2008)

Doesn't engineering require a lot of math? :scratch:  Close enough!


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## Senor Hound (Jul 9, 2008)

monkeykoder said:


> #1 if a school doesn't offer calculus you need to go to a different school it is absolutely necessary for most science majors.
> #2 Those are not math classes they are either physics or engineering classes math classes have such names as Analysis, Abstract Algebra, Set Theory, Number Theory and the like...



Well, I like the school, and its the only school within 60 miles of me.  But even though they don't have a lot of ground classes, they have a great distance learning program where you go in and listen to a lecture from a teacher 4 hours away.  But you're right, the school is very small and not being very old still has a small class selection.

My favorite class name is, "fluid dynamics."  It just sounds so cool 

I'm really scared to do this.  I keep thinking I'm not smart enough, but I got a 32 on the math portion of my ACTs, and I have a high IQ.  I put no weight in these scores (they're just numbers to me), but it should give me an indication if I'm capable of doing well in Math.  I've just never applied myself before, and I don't know what I'm capable of.

Sorry for getting personal there.  I'm just really worried.  I tried taking Calculus once before, and I quit after a week cause I didn't know what my instructor/professor was talking about (he was from India, and a lot of words got lost in translation).  I've taken a few more math classes since then, though, so maybe I now know enough.  But Precalc sounds like a great class to audit, if they only offered it...


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## Corry (Jul 9, 2008)

That is strange they don't have it.  

It's such a basic math class.  For my degree, before transferring out of my community college to a University, I have to have either Calc, pre-calc, or statistics.  I think I'm taking stats.


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## BoblyBill (Jul 9, 2008)

monkeykoder said:


> I've found calculators to be disadvantageous in any math class.


 
+100 :thumbup:


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## clarinetJWD (Jul 9, 2008)

Corry said:


> Doesn't engineering require a lot of math? :scratch:  Close enough!



Yep, engineering requires a lot of math, as do most sciences, but those are definitely engineering classes.  My math ones were Calculus I, II, III, and Linear Algebra


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## Corry (Jul 9, 2008)

clarinetJWD said:


> Yep, engineering requires a lot of math, as do most sciences, but those are definitely engineering classes.  My math ones were Calculus I, II, III, and Linear Algebra




Meh, I just remember you showing me the math that was in those classes.  I still have nightmares.


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## Unimaxium (Jul 9, 2008)

Corry said:


> Meh, I just remember you showing me the math that was in those classes.  I still have nightmares.



Look out, the Eigenvectors are coming to get you!!! Quick, hit them with a nonlinear transformation!


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## BoblyBill (Jul 9, 2008)

clarinetJWD said:


> Yep, engineering requires a lot of math, as do most sciences, but those are definitely engineering classes. My math ones were Calculus I, II, III, and Linear Algebra


 
How was Linear Algebra? I elected to take Dif EQ...


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## BoblyBill (Jul 9, 2008)

Unimaxium said:


> Look out, the Eigenvectors are coming to get you!!! Quick, hit them with a nonlinear transformation!


 

LOL!!!!!


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## Corry (Jul 9, 2008)

Unimaxium said:


> Look out, the Eigenvectors are coming to get you!!! Quick, hit them with a nonlinear transformation!



You're an N to the E to the R to the D, yo.


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## kellylindseyphotography (Jul 9, 2008)

Corry said:


> That is strange they don't have it.
> 
> It's such a basic math class.  For my degree, before transferring out of my community college to a University, I have to have either Calc, pre-calc, or statistics.  I think I'm taking stats.



Avoid stats at all costs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  I am a straight A student and consider myself pretty intelligent, worked my ass off in that class and only pulled a B-.  I was pretty pissed.  Pre calc is definitly easier IMO.


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## caspertodd (Jul 9, 2008)

Big Bully said:


> Don't tell me its hard!! I have to take it in the spring semester!


 
It's not _that_ hard, you just have to pay attention and do your homework.  I went through Calc I, II and III ok, but I paid attention.

Senior Hound, next to Physics, Calculus is one of the most beneficial and important classes for Engineering.  You will absolutely need to find a school that offers it if you plan on majoring in that.  I HIGHLY recommend a Pre-cal class.

Corry, I took Statistics, and it clicked with me.  I had a really good teacher, and ended up breezing through that class because of it.  It is the only class in college that I ended up with 108 (because of all the extra credit I did).  I do think though the pre-cal is a pretty easy class also.  The most important thing is to do your homework.  For some reason I loved math and ended up working extra problems on my own.  What's funny is that in 7th grade, my teacher pulled me asside and said that I would never amount to anything in match (not a great thing for a teacher to say).  Well this pissed my dad off, and he made sure that he worked a ton with me on it.  I ended up with a mathematic college scholorship .  It wasn't because I was mathematically inclined, it was just because I practiced, paid attention, and did my homework.


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## clarinetJWD (Jul 9, 2008)

BoblyBill said:


> How was Linear Algebra? I elected to take Dif EQ...



Veeery abstract.  The first week, it's basically Algebra in one and two dimensions, basically what Algebra II was.  THen they show you how to do the same thing using a Matrix.  Week 2 is three dimensions, and then the Matrix.  Week 3...well: "We've done about all we can with this material for visable dimensions, so let's generalize for n-dimensions."  Which is where we lived for the remainder of the semester.

It was difficult, but I thought Calculus 3 was harder


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## tron (Jul 9, 2008)

calculus just gets a bad rep.  im an engineering/journalism student (might switch the engineeringn degree to a math one but idk) and calc isnt as hard as people say and im no rhode scholar to say the least.

just learn derivatives.  thats what calc I is mostly about.  towards the end u might start using antiderivatives (integrals) but you get more in depth with that stuff in calc II.  

its really no big deal, just take good notes and im sure youll be fine.

if you want some preliminary background check out http://www.physicsforums.com/

calc II is sort of a ***** but its not as bad as everyone says it is.  plus look on the bright side, after calc II the math (generally) gets easier to deal with.  well at least for yr first 2 years i heard.


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## caspertodd (Jul 9, 2008)

clarinetJWD said:


> Veeery abstract. The first week, it's basically Algebra in one and two dimensions, basically what Algebra II was. THen they show you how to do the same thing using a Matrix. Week 2 is three dimensions, and then the Matrix. Week 3...well: "We've done about all we can with this material for visable dimensions, so let's generalize for n-dimensions." Which is where we lived for the remainder of the semester.
> 
> It was difficult, but I thought Calculus 3 was harder


 
I had Matrix Algebra...I guess that's the same thing maybe?  It was a little weird, but yeah, Calc 3 was harder.


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## clarinetJWD (Jul 9, 2008)

caspertodd said:


> I had Matrix Algebra...I guess that's the same thing maybe?  It was a little weird, but yeah, Calc 3 was harder.



But was your Prof as awesome as mine?  He had back problems so he taught the entire semester laying down next to an overhead projector!  He was also so good he got applause at the end of the semester...


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## caspertodd (Jul 9, 2008)

clarinetJWD said:


> But was your Prof as awesome as mine? He had back problems so he taught the entire semester laying down next to an overhead projector! He was also so good he got applause at the end of the semester...


 
Wow!  That's dedication!  It's sad that a lot teachers seem to be so underappreciated these days.


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## kellylindseyphotography (Jul 9, 2008)

caspertodd said:


> I went through Calc I, II and III ok, but I paid attention.
> 
> * Corry, I took Statistics, and it clicked with me.  I had a really good teacher, and ended up breezing through that class because of it.*




Was this before or after 3 calculus classes?? :meh:

I've never taken a class above precalc.. and if the choice was pre calc or stats... I'll take precalc for sure!

I eventually at the very end had statistics "click" for me.  But the whole semester was pretty much torture.  Minimum of 7 hrs -14hrs a week spent on just homework.

But here's some statistics for you.  32 people started out in the class.  At the end there were SIXTEEN of us left.  Our teacher posted our grades of our midterm (anonymously, just the actual score, no names) and 50% of us were failing.  Only 1 person had above a 90.  I had an 83.  

I didn't notice that in precalc at all.  Seemed everyone did fine.  It could be any number of variables (hard teacher, hard subject, etc etc) Who knows? lol


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## caspertodd (Jul 9, 2008)

kellylindseyphotography said:


> Was this before or after 3 calculus classes?? :meh:
> 
> I've never taken a class above precalc.. and if the choice was pre calc or stats... I'll take precalc for sure!
> 
> ...


 
I think it was my first semester during Calc I.  It sounds like you had a hard class!  I don't remember anyone dropping out of mine.


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## clarinetJWD (Jul 9, 2008)

kellylindseyphotography said:


> Was this before or after 3 calculus classes?? :meh:
> 
> I've never taken a class above precalc.. and if the choice was pre calc or stats... I'll take precalc for sure!
> 
> ...



I heard a great, albiet nerdy joke once...

You ask 3 people the same question: "What is 2+2"
The mathematition answers simply "4"

The Computer Scientist says "A number very closely approximating 4"

The statistition says:





"What do you want it to be?"


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## Corry (Jul 9, 2008)

I've been told different things as far as stats.  I've been told from some it's easier than pre-calc,and from some that it's harder than calc.


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## kellylindseyphotography (Jul 9, 2008)

Do you check the "grade your professor" on myspace?  I find that pretty valuable.  Too bad only one teacher taught stats at my college.. I knew going into it after reading the stuff on myspace about her that it would suck.  I love grading my teachers after I'm done with them   It's been a good resource for me.


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## monkeykoder (Jul 9, 2008)

Corry said:


> I've been told different things as far as stats.  I've been told from some it's easier than pre-calc,and from some that it's harder than calc.



Statistics is just different from pre-calc...  I hardly consider the introductory statistics a math class.  It falls more in line with an engineering class "Memorize this formula or know these buttons on your calculator" calculator or formula depends on your teacher.  I had a problem with statistics because they never presented the logic behind the material (of course I did the whole class in 4 weeks and got an A...)


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## Corry (Jul 9, 2008)

I use Grade My Professor with every teacher I get.  

I think I'll ask around more about the stats class and do some more of my own research before I make a decision.  I would think that a statistics class would be more useful to a psychology major than calculus would, though.


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## Senor Hound (Jul 10, 2008)

clarinetJWD said:


> I heard a great, albiet nerdy joke once...
> 
> You ask 3 people the same question: "What is 2+2"
> The mathematition answers simply "4"
> ...



And the programmer says, "100"  (get it, 00000100?)

And depending on what language you're writing in, sometimes you might get 22 for an answer (whoops!).  Or maybe that's just me.  I tried programming languages but I always messed something up. 

My school may offer Calculus by distance learning (where your teacher is on satellite television).  I don't know, because those classes aren't listed in the class schedule.  I'll have to go ask.  I don't think they offer classes that the main branch offers by remote link, cause it would be counter-productive, you know?

They have a class called "Survey of Calculus."  I don't know what it is or how it differs in topics from Calc 1, but you can only get credit for it or Calc 1, and you have to take Calc 1 to take Calc 2 (the other doesn't work).  So I don't know what good it would do me.  Still, since my purpose is to become re-aquainted with the material, it may be ideal.


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## Big Bully (Jul 10, 2008)

I have heard that statistics is like jumping in to a different language. But then again isn't math a language in and of itself?


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## monkeykoder (Jul 11, 2008)

Yes math is definitely its own language just like any other advanced field.


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