# Starting up studio for fashion photography



## zambesi (Aug 8, 2012)

I am the owner of a fashion company and we have decided to have a photographic studio on our premises as it will be the most efficient answer to new stock arriving daily. 

We will be hiring a photographer twice weekly and would like to have all of our own company owned equipment. How would we get shoots similar to the example below:



We already have the following:

- Canon 7D body
- EF-S 17-85mm f4-5.6 IS USM lens
- 01 White Backdrop (http://www.photoshack.co.nz/afawcs0142140/CATID=50/ID=390/SID=514158749/productdetails.html)
- 2.6 metres height Backdrop Support System (http://www.photoshack.co.nz/afawcs0142140/CATID=15/ID=211/SID=381747756/productdetails.html)

We obviously have a budget, so please think about what is essential rather than what is preferred.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!


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## DiskoJoe (Aug 8, 2012)

lol, this has got to be spam. No one is this dumb.


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## zambesi (Aug 8, 2012)

I'm not the photographer, I own a business, just asking so that I can prepare enough equipment so that it is all ready for a photographer to step in. Thanks for your comments DiskoJoe.


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## DiskoJoe (Aug 8, 2012)

Doing this in house would cost much more then what it is worth. Find a good local photographer with a studio already set up and outsource them. Pro quality cameras can cost anywhere from 3-5k plus pro lenses can be around 1-2k a piece then you need studio lighting and facilities. Trust me just outsource it. You can pay some a couple hundred bucks and then have them send you the photos.

Really thought you were spam too. We get LOTS of that around these parts with vague questions like this.


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## MLeeK (Aug 8, 2012)

Um, what is your budget? You need some serious lighting to get results like that. You are going to need two strobes on the backdrop and at least two for the model. 2 softboxes. One rather large, one medium. A 5th hair light is almost a necessity as well. You are also going to need a better quality lens, triggers and receivers for the lights...


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## zambesi (Aug 8, 2012)

If anyone is willing to compile a rough list of what we would need to consider in establishing this studio setting. We are located in New Zealand, so we will probably be sourcing most of our products from photoshack.co.nz if that helps in knowing what products are available. I do appreciate that this is expensive, but would like to consider the option as currently we are spending about $600 a week just on photography costs, and would rather eventually do it all in-house.

Thanks again.


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## MLeeK (Aug 8, 2012)

THe lighting kits in the link you gave are all pretty low end. Bowens makes some good things, but Bowens Fit is NOT the bowens strobes. You REALLY don't want to throw money at that. You'll be replacing it every few months if not every month if it is going to get a lot of use. They are intended as a home studio kit for someone who is wanting to do portraits of their kids once a month. They are not enough light to produce the image you posted either. 
Paul C. Buff serves you, I believe. The very least I'd go in your situation is Alien Bees. 
I'd want 
2-AB400
2-AB800
1-10x36 softbox
1-32x40 softbox
2 General purpose light stands
2 backlight stands
1-cybersync transmitter
4-cybersync receivers
There is a lot more that would make it easier, but I could manage to shoot most anything on that.
Total $2570.32


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## MLeeK (Aug 8, 2012)

How is this going to save you $ in photography fees? It's not something that you can just set up and any idiot can do. You are STILL going to pay the photographer their fee and this probably isn't going to take that fee down any.


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## zambesi (Aug 8, 2012)

Thanks, that's exactly what I wanted to know so that I can outline a financial proposal and get this idea hopefully underway in the near future! I appreciate the time and consideration that went into that post.

Thanks again


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## MLeeK (Aug 8, 2012)

I am still really curious how this is going to save you money on photography fees?


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## zambesi (Aug 8, 2012)

I personally only do amateur photography in my free time, there is absolutely no way I would touch studio photography. We have been talking with hiring a resident member to do all our photography, design, and post-production of photos part-time in-house each week. This is a different photographer from the one we are currently using who is only freelance, who we have to charge out about twice a week. It's inconvenient for our business using a freelancer as we have stock shipments arrive almost daily, we need those fashion products up as soon as possible for efficiency. Having a part time staff member in-house to do all of the above would cost about the same, but be much more efficient and convenient on our time. Thanks again


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## MLeeK (Aug 8, 2012)

Do you really think you are going to hire someone with the skills to do the job for under $600 per week? PLUS the cost of the equipment? I think you can if you hire someone who isn't up there in skill set. I think you also have fogotten to think about the other time that goes into it. To create these images there is development after the shoot and digital darkroom time. 
For each hour of shooting you are talking a minimum of 2 hours darkroom time. 
Don't forget that you also have to factor in the purchase of Photoshop CS6 and a machine to run it, calibration software and a pen tablet, an office space for the digital darkroom. 
If you get in 10 items that need photographed every day you are looking at 2-3 hours of shooting at best case scenario and 4-6 hours of digital time. I don't know how many items you have coming in, but you are past full time at that point. Plus the model's fee. 
To hire a professional with the skill set you are looking at $20 an hour if you can con someone into it. More if they are required to provide any equipment or insurance. I just don't see it working for you.  It sounds to me that the $600 is probably pretty cheap. Maybe you can get lucky and con the current freelancer into working with your equipment for half of his fee?


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## KmH (Aug 8, 2012)

Who is the copyright owner of the photo you posted?


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## Helen B (Aug 9, 2012)

I'd like to see examples of the sort of image you want to achieve. Links to other sites are fine - don't post the images themselves. 

Are you wholesale or retail?

Have you asked your current photographer what could be done to improve things? If she helps to set you up with a studio that one of your employees can be trained to use, then pay her generously for that help and training. It's also a good idea to discuss equipment selection and ownership

It's not unusual for companies to have their own in-house studio then hire freelancers. I know of a few freelance photographers who work that way. The advantage is that the photographer doesn't need their own studio. In all the cases I know about the photographer - who is considered to be part of the company's brand identity, ie she's an important individual within the company - is allowed to use the studio for their own non-conflicting projects. 

Look beyond Photoshack's product range. get help from the photographer. Consider used pro gear - I use lots of s/h Dynalite and Speedotron equipment. It will last forever.

One way to work, if the photographer is going to get a lot of work from you, is for the photographer to own the lights and camera equipment and for you to provide the studio, backgrounds and any sets. I much prefer to select and pay for my own equipment without having a non-photographer judge what is cost effective. 

Do you do your own fulfillment? If not, does your fulfillment company have a fully equipped studio?

Will you expand into video - you should think about it and allow for it.

Here's a list of the stuff on the top of my head:
Four flash heads
Two or three power packs
Two monolights
Two black/white V panels (large free standing panels for cutting or reflecting light)
One wireless transmitter and one wireless receiver, or two transceivers (only one flash is triggered by wireless, the rest can be on optical slave)
Light meter (optional, not necessary)
Lightstands, maybe C-stands, at least one boom
Softbox, size to match size of subject
Small softbox or beauty dish
Scrims, snoots, grids
Decent sound system, Spotify account


It could be simpler - much simpler - but it depends on the look you want.


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## Tamgerine (Aug 9, 2012)

I am not sure of the laws in your area, but since this photographer will be an employee of yours, will you also need to pay additional taxes, workers compensation contributions, unemployment, health care fees, or other such requirements? If you do, it may end up costing you more in the long run.

You say it will be more efficient and convenient to get these photos up right away, but does this translate into a tangible price? Will having these photographs up sooner turn really a higher profit directly because of it? Or is it just more convenient? If there is no profit, all of that money going towards equipment and additional photographers fees is merely a convenience charge. Is it worth it?

You say you're going to hire a photographer twice a week. Let's assume that the rest of the week the studio is sitting there doing nothing. Let's make up some prices.

Right now it costs you 600 a week for the photographs you need. 2,400 a month approximately. Bada bing, that's it. Let's say you bring in exactly 2,400 dollars a month from your revenue that goes strictly towards paying that photographer. You break even. Essentially your photos are paying for themselves. 

Now lets say the studio costs you 4000 to purchase the equipment (being quite lenient with that figure, maybe there was a sale?), and setting up the studio costs you 5 hours of direct labor at 10 dollars an hour per person, and 5 people help set up the studio (so 250 dollars total), 100 dollars a month to insure your equipment, 50 dollars a month in increased electricity costs, you found a student photographer to do the job for 500 a week, (cutting out a 100 dollar studio fee) so 2,000 a month, and you have to pay 200 a month for healthcare and taxes and blah blah blah for your new legal employee. Am I forgetting anything?

All of these costs are directly related ONLY to your studio. Your studio so far cost you 6,600 dollars. 2,350 of that cost is reoccurring EVERY month. The 4,250 of the initial capital required to pay for equipment and direct labor to set the studio up has to be amortized over time from your revenue. You essentially owe yourself that money. So let's say that 100 dollars a month of revenue goes towards paying back that initial capital. 

Your studio costs you 2,450 a month just to exist and produce those photographs until you pay off your initial equipment and labor costs, then it will cost you 2,350 a month. If you still bring in only 2,400 dollars a month that goes towards your photography fees then congratulations you still break even! If your customers notice you're putting up INSTANT PHOTOGRAPHS and this brings you an extra 200 dollars a month in revenue, then your studio makes 200 dollars a month, sure. 

Keep in mind, if your photographer gets sick and can't work for a week, your studio STILL COSTS YOU 2,450 a month just to exist, and then you have to pay another photographer fee on top of that if you still want your photographs on time. If your photographer takes a week off for sickness, vacation, a family emergency, or marriage it costs you just a bit over 600 dollars.

So hey, by my calculations you could maybe break even if you get cheap equipment and a cheap photographer. Again, I don't know your tax or insurances status, so this is all just a demonstration.

Now the question is, do you want to invest that 6,600 dollars into a studio that nets you approximately 200 dollars of profit a month (if anything) or would you rather invest it in an advertising strategy that brings you more customers, thus netting you a profit of 500 a month WITHOUT all the work of setting up the studio, finding the employee, and taxes.

I don't know! Somebody look over my math and see if I'm along the right lines. I'm sleepy.


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## MLeeK (Aug 9, 2012)

Tamgerine said:


> I am not sure of the laws in your area, but since this photographer will be an employee of yours, will you also need to pay additional taxes, workers compensation contributions, unemployment, health care fees, or other such requirements? If you do, it may end up costing you more in the long run.
> 
> You say it will be more efficient and convenient to get these photos up right away, but does this translate into a tangible price? Will having these photographs up sooner turn really a higher profit directly because of it? Or is it just more convenient? If there is no profit, all of that money going towards equipment and additional photographers fees is merely a convenience charge. Is it worth it?
> 
> ...


Excellent, Tammy! The only thing I thought of as I was reading that is the space to set the studio up. Do you have empty space laying around that can house a studio? It's not an 8x10 space either. 8' wide can cut it if you are talking only one model or just a couple of models at one time. However you are going to need about 20-25' back from the wall you put your backdrop on. You need a couple of feet minimum between model and backdrop-really need about 5-6 minimum. You will need 10-15 feet from model to camera and room for the photographer behind the camera. PLUS the office to house your digital darkroom. That doesn't have to be large but we're lookingSo, do you have 250SF and an office space that you are NOT using at all right now, or are you going to have to care out space for this? If you are having to move things around and carve space out then that will cost you in the space you are no longer able to use for something else or space you will need to acquire. Floor space costs money. 

OR you could pay your grunt employees to set up the studio and tear it down once a week at 4-6 hours, 2 grunts @$10 per hour. An additional cost of $120 per week.

My bottom line is this: $600 per week in photography fees sounds pretty damn cheap to me for a one day deal from the photographer. I know I wouldn't work for $600 a day of shooting anything.


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## Tamgerine (Aug 9, 2012)

MLeeK said:


> Tamgerine said:
> 
> 
> > I am not sure of the laws in your area, but since this photographer will be an employee of yours, will you also need to pay additional taxes, workers compensation contributions, unemployment, health care fees, or other such requirements? If you do, it may end up costing you more in the long run.
> ...



I thought of space too, but it just didn't make it in anywhere. It was getting confusing enough anyway.

Also, remember those employees working on setting up your studio are spending time NOT working on other things that may be bringing you in more revenue. You have to factor those things in as well.

If your studio was going to make you some crazy revenue it might be worth it. Honestly I'd rather pay the 600 dollars a week to someone else and just not do all that work.


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## KmH (Aug 9, 2012)

In other words, to save a $1 you wind up spending $3.

Here in the USA, the twice weekly photographer would likely wind up owning the copyrights to the photos made since they would likely be considered a contractor rather than an employee by US federal law.

But I have no clue how that works in New Zealand, which is where the OP is.


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## Tony S (Aug 10, 2012)

> Here in the USA, the twice weekly photographer would likely wind up owning the copyrights to the photos made since they would likely be considered a contractor rather than an employee by US federal law.




  I suppose that would really depend on the terms of the contract between the two parties. The photographer does not necessarily retain the rights if he signs them away in a contract. Although it's not a "work for hire" under the law, it could be under the contract terms.
"


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## PhotoWrangler (Aug 10, 2012)

zambesi said:


> Thanks, that's exactly what I wanted to know so that I can outline a financial proposal and get this idea hopefully underway in the near future!





So you get your information from an internet forum? Because EVERYTHING on the internet is true and factual right?

Sorry, but I can't take you seriously. Businesses don't form financial proposals with information they get from internet forums.


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## DiskoJoe (Aug 10, 2012)

I strike my original statement a here by replace it with the following:

You have no idea how to run a business and will soon be out of business. Buy nice quality gear and it will have better resale value in the bankruptcy sale.


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