# Powerful photos *warning: sensitive subjects*



## Corry (Jun 12, 2007)

I was on another forum (not a photo forum) and there was a discussion about Anne Frank's birthday, which led to a discussion about the holocaust. 

Someone posted a picture from during the holocaust that stopped me dead in my tracks, and affected me in a very strong way.  I cannot believe the power in this photo.  

This is the picture (don't click if you are overly sensitive about such things)

holocaust picture (photographer unknown to me, let me know if you know who took it)

It got me thinking about some things.  I once said that, as a photographer, I would love to have the chance to take a picture that evoked a great deal of emotion.  However...I don't think I could have handled being the photographer that took this picture.  I think I'd have been a tormented soul for the rest of my life.  

What are your thoughts on powerful pictures such as this?  What makes a picture so powerful?  Are there any pictures that are now burned into your memory, like this one is for me?  If you post examples, remember to post them as links and not as pictures.


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## The_Traveler (Jun 12, 2007)

Almost surely done by the remarkably compulsive record-keepers of the Third Reich. They were successfully indicted by their own records on the post-way period.

If this picture bothers you viscerally, you should not take any opportunity to visit the concentration camps memorials.
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/holocaust00_1.jpg


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## LaFoto (Jun 12, 2007)

If you ever get the chance to go to Amsterdam, make sure you visit the Anne Frank House there, but you need to warp yourself and allow for at least an hour on your own after you have been in there.
It is unbelievable and unbelievably horrible that there were people (my own! :shock: ) that wasted the lives of so many hopeful, intelligent, loving, young, middle-aged, old, male, female, other people. Who on earth did they think they were!?

Well, yes, my people, "compulsive record-keepers" who they were, Lew is quite right here, produced metres and metres of footage of terrible film material and also photos of this kind. They should warn us never to let anything of this kind happen again.

The photo that had the most impact on me ever is that of the 9-year-old naked girl running from the napalm attack in Vietnam back then. No need to search for the link. Everyone knows THAT photo, I assume.


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## Mike_E (Jun 12, 2007)




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## GoM (Jun 12, 2007)

Interesting side note #1 - that little vietnamese girl is now a celeb of sorts in Canada for philanthropic causes

Interesting side note #2 - http://stateoftheart.popphoto.com/blog/2007/06/nick_ut_exactly.html


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## The_Traveler (Jun 12, 2007)

Somewhere in the archives of the US Army, never released, is a picture taken in a village near Bien Hoa, VN.  We had been going to one of these villages on a routine basis, giving healthcare, etc. and the local VC thought they were cooperating too much so the night before we got there, they VC came into the village and hanged the families and officials of the village - with wire from rafters in the houses - and made sure the rest of the village didn't take them down before we got there. 

One of the medics took some pictures but they were confiscated by the command. 

Neither side is 'the good guys' totally. 
Everybody has something they should be ashamed of.


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## Tangerini (Jun 12, 2007)

I also can not imagine being the photographer in this case, but then to be involved in any way to the horrendous happenings of the time is completely beyond my comprehension.



> Neither side is 'the good guys' totally.
> Everybody has something they should be ashamed of.


This makes me think of a line from All Quiet on the Western Front: 
"... But now, for the first time, I see you are a man like me.  I thought of your hand-grenades, of your bayonet, of your rifle; now I see your wife and your face and our fellowship.  Forgive me, comrade.  We always see it too late.  Why do they never tell us that you are poor devils like us, that your mothers are just as anxious as ours, and that we have the same fear of death, and the same dying and the same agony-Forgive me, comrade; how could you be my enemy?"


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## Peniole (Jun 12, 2007)

It's still happening now, just the journalists are either shot, or embeded and not allowed to shoot this or that.


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## Nein-reis (Jun 12, 2007)

It is a powerful shot, and the things that happened in that time were horrible, but events just as horrible (maybe not in the same quanity) are still happening today.  Take a look into "Conflict Diamonds" or just about everything in parts of Africa.


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## Corry (Jun 12, 2007)

The_Traveler said:


> Almost surely done by the remarkably compulsive record-keepers of the Third Reich. They were successfully indicted by their own records on the post-way period.
> 
> If this picture bothers you viscerally, you should not take any opportunity to visit the concentration camps memorials.
> http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/holocaust00_1.jpg



I didn't say it BOTHERED me exactly.  I said it affected me very strongly....it filled me with emotion.  That is not necessarily a bad thing.  I know it would be difficult to do, but visiting such memorials would be an amazing experience. 


And guys, lets try and keep the conversation on the photographs, what makes a photo powerful, ect.


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## Corry (Jun 12, 2007)

LaFoto said:


> If you ever get the chance to go to Amsterdam, make sure you visit the Anne Frank House there, but you need to warp yourself and allow for at least an hour on your own after you have been in there.
> It is unbelievable and unbelievably horrible that there were people (my own! :shock: ) that wasted the lives of so many hopeful, intelligent, loving, young, middle-aged, old, male, female, other people. Who on earth did they think they were!?
> 
> Well, yes, my people, "compulsive record-keepers" who they were, Lew is quite right here, produced metres and metres of footage of terrible film material and also photos of this kind. They should warn us never to let anything of this kind happen again.
> ...



I actually had not seen that photo before.  And yes, it is very powerful.  

It seems it is most often the bad things that become such powerful images....

...can anyone think of a GOOD image that might be comparable?


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## Iron Flatline (Jun 12, 2007)

Not a response to Corry, just another horrible image added to this thread:

Child cries after parents shot dead

Theoretically it doesn't matter what conflict, this is happening all over the world, throughout history. 

Theoretically, anyway...


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## Peanuts (Jun 12, 2007)

I shall quickly research this in a minute - but something tells me this was actually not an image from the holocaust but actually Siberia... or the USSR? I shall be back in a moment.

But yes, a very poweful image.


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## Iron Flatline (Jun 12, 2007)

Corry said:


> ...can anyone think of a GOOD image that might be comparable?


Kiss on VJ Day


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## deanimator (Jun 12, 2007)

Not had enough?
This is another of the most famous images from Vietnam

http://www.cs.brown.edu/courses/cs024/images/canon/06.jpg


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## Peanuts (Jun 12, 2007)

Okay, I can't find any background history on the original image, but I would be interested if anyone can confirm/prove my thought wrong.

Regarding the picture of the Vietnamese girl, Kim Phuc, I actually had the oppurtunity to listen to her speak at my school when I was in grade 3. I can still see her say, "Do you see what appears to be clothes falling off my cousin's back?" As an image of her grandmother carrying a young boy came up on the screen, "Those are not his clothes. That is his skin." I believe he died later that day.  Even at such a young age, those images were just as powerful as they are to me today.


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## deanimator (Jun 12, 2007)

Peanuts said:


> Okay, I can't find any background history on the original image, but I would be interested if anyone can confirm/prove my thought wrong.....



Which image are you referring too?


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## Bear (Jun 12, 2007)

Made my eyes swell.  One of the best feelings in the world w/ ur board over the edge.

What makes an image powerful is its connection to the audience.  To many the endless vertical drop is either unexciting or ridiculous, to me it is heaven. Im swelling up just thinking of it.

The reason the horrible pics are so powerful to everyone is because what is horrible is more universal.  Just about everyone has a general fear and hatred of torture and death.  When it comes to a feeling of powerful joy it becomes more of a preference.


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## Corry (Jun 12, 2007)

Bear said:


> Made my eyes swell.  One of the best feelings in the world w/ ur board over the edge.
> 
> What makes an image powerful is its connection to the audience.  To many the endless vertical drop is either unexciting or ridiculous, to me it is heaven. Im swelling up just thinking of it.
> 
> The reason the horrible pics are so powerful to everyone is because what is horrible is more universal.  Just about everyone has a general fear and hatred of torture and death.  When it comes to a feeling of powerful joy it becomes more of a preference.



That is a wonderful post, thank you.  You've got some good points there.


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## usayit (Jun 12, 2007)

Iron Flatline said:


> Kiss on VJ Day



What a well known photo to celebrate a nation welcoming its service men home!!!  One less known fact about that famous photo... it was posed.


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## deanimator (Jun 12, 2007)

Read Susan Sonntag´s classic discussion on photography for some excellent insights to this question.

ALL PHOTOGRAPHERS SHOULD HAVE READ THIS...!!!

Really


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## deanimator (Jun 12, 2007)

usayit said:


> What a well known photo to celebrate a nation welcoming its service men home!!!  One less known fact about that famous photo... it was posed.



I´d heard otherwise...that it wasn´t faked. A quick Google turned up this 





> That day in August of 1945, Eisenstaedt was simply walking among the crowd that had gathered on the streets of New York. One of the people he noticed was a sailor who was kissing his way through the crowd. He followed him long enough to see him grab the woman whose outfit in white brought the contrast of the sailor's blue to his keen eye. At that moment, Eisenstaedt snapped the picture.


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## usayit (Jun 12, 2007)

I didn't say it was faked.... 

I simply said it was posed... it was a solder and a woman of that time and day.  He had asked them to pose for the photo kissing..


Apparently there is a bit of mystery into the story behind the photo and Life Magazine did a good job covering the truth up.

http://www.georgekoch.com/articles/sailor.htm


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## deanimator (Jun 12, 2007)

Can you post evidence please?


(although this is getting off-topic actually...faked, posed, set-up or whatever, or not, is really another topic)


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## Peanuts (Jun 12, 2007)

deanimator said:


> Which image are you referring too?


 
The original image of the mother and her child. For some reason my head is registering this one with an event that was not (or not solely) the holocaust. The Red Army perhaps? Not certain.

History is my worst subject - obviously!


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## Corry (Jun 12, 2007)

Peanuts said:


> The original image of the mother and her child. For some reason my head is registering this one with an event that was not (or not solely) the holocaust. The Red Army perhaps? Not certain.
> 
> History is my worst subject - obviously!



It could be...I really do not know. I'm more focused on the affect the image had on me, rather than where it actually took place.  

Though it would be nice to know the facts on teh photo, as well.


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## deanimator (Jun 12, 2007)

@ Peanuts Click this Google link http://images.google.com/images?q=soldier+shooting+mother+child&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2

It will take you to a series of sites that all refer to it being a German soldier killing a Jewish woman and her child.


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## usayit (Jun 12, 2007)

deanimator said:


> Can you post evidence please?
> 
> 
> (although this is getting off-topic actually...faked, posed, set-up or whatever, or not, is really another topic)




sheesh.. man... I don't have evidence... I'm not debating.  I'm simply stating what I heard.  Sheesh...


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## deanimator (Jun 12, 2007)

About the question of posing, Eisenstaedt himself never admitted to it being posed, and as the article referred to and other articles mention, something like 11 different men came forward over the years claiming they had been the sailor, and 3 nurses...
Nothing was therefore ever proven.

It was the same problem with the other very famous "Kiss" by Doisneau. A great photo too...posed or not. Many claimed to be the couple, and he denied for years that it was posed. Finally he produced the model release in response to a court order...So, his was certainly posed.

The list of great photos that some claim were posed goes on. Some were and some were not. Check this out...
http://ldesign.wordpress.com/2007/0...ate-famous-faked-photos-and-how-to-make-them/


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## The_Traveler (Jun 12, 2007)

deanimator said:


> Read Susan Sonntag´s classic discussion on photography for some excellent insights to this question.



What Sontag piece are you referring to?


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## deanimator (Jun 12, 2007)

"On Photography" ...Maybe the most famous and insightful books ever written about what photography really is.


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## gtkelly (Jun 12, 2007)

We're getting way away from the original question - which was how to deal with powerful photos. 

In my mind the photo itself - regardless of content - is itself powerless. It's all based on the emotion and phychology of the person viewing it. Every one has their own perspective. The initial photo here can be viewed with horror, outrage, or shame based on one's perspective. That is the greatest thing about photography in my opinion. It causes everyone to see and percieve something a bit differently.

This thread is a great example of that. We're looking at it from a purely technical and analytical perspective and so avoid the deep emotion tied to the content that a more casual observer might see immediately.

The photos that have the greatest impact to me remain those of my kids minutes after birth. But I don't expect anyone else to react the same.


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## JimmyJaceyMom (Jun 12, 2007)

deanimator said:


> Not had enough?
> This is another of the most famous images from Vietnam
> 
> http://www.cs.brown.edu/courses/cs024/images/canon/06.jpg


 

Oh my gosh!  Great minds think alike as I was about to go look for htis after I read all the posts.  Weird. !


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## nabero (Jun 12, 2007)

sontag's _regarding the pain of others_ discusses something similar to this...interesting read


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## schumionbike (Jun 12, 2007)

JimmyJaceyMom said:


> Oh my gosh! Great minds think alike as I was about to go look for htis after I read all the posts. Weird. !


 
That's a famous picture all right, shot by Eddie Adam in 1968 during the Tet Offensive in Saigon.  Just a little bit of history behind the shot.  The South Vietnamese and the Viet Cong had an agreement for a cease fire during Tet (Lunar New Year) to give peole a chance to enjoy the new year.  Right on the eve of New Year, after the Ho Chi Minh did his well wishes, the shot fire.  Did I mentioned that less than half the South Vietnamese military was on full alert at this point? A lesson they didn't forget.  

Back to the photograph, the man holding the pistol was South Vietnamese General Nguyen Ngoc Loan, the man that was shot was Viet Cong captian who was believe to have killed the the wife and children of a South Vietnamese police officer.  You can read more about it if you just google Nguyen Ngoc Loan. 

The reason I post this is to simply demonstrated that while picture do not lies, they certainly don't tell the whole story.


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## schumionbike (Jun 12, 2007)

These two for me are powerful photo from Vietnam, they certainly tell you what the future would hold for Vietnam. 

http://www.vietnamwar.com/vietnamwar_fallofsaigon.jpg
http://www.vietnamwar.com/vietnamwar_fallofsaigon1.jpg


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## schumionbike (Jun 12, 2007)

Tank Man


http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/0/05/300px-TankMan2.jpg

The tanks moved from it original position in the first picture 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Tianasquare.jpg


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## newrmdmike (Jun 12, 2007)

being in southeast asia at very poor border towns has introduced  me to starving children, landmine victims etc.

as of now i havn't picked up my camera to photograph them, its a pretty hard thing to do.  i remember reading about a photographer who commited suicide after taking a photograph like those.  it may have been the guy who photographed the african child with the vulture waiting for it to die.

its difficult not to help in a direct sense.  and photographing it only would make me wish i had done something more.


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## Peanuts (Jun 13, 2007)

I find there is often a very fine line in between a powerful thought-provoking image and one that was taken solely for the reason of explotation. During my trip to Sierra Leone, I was constantly told by the head people to avoid "poverty porn" as they so called it - essentially, the images we are constantly bombarded with of 'poor starving kids in Africa with flies in their eyes'. It is definitely a reality, and a reality that should be brought attention to, but we are now essentially 'immune' to these images.

At the same time, if we were to hear of an event such as the one of Kim Phuc, how much thought would be put to it? Perhaps it is just me but images are so impactful. Seeing a face to a description makes it hit so much closer to home.

Just my $0.02

Not so interesting fact, but the Tiananmen Square protests ended the day I was born, the same day "The Unknown Rebel" image was taken. Completely random, but hey.


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## craig (Jun 13, 2007)

For me powerful photos include a deeply human element. For example the work of Dorothea Lange or W. Eugene Smith. In their work I could look into the subjects eyes and get a stronger understanding of what was happening in the photo. Maybe even a stronger understanding of the subjects emotion or thought at that moment in time. That is what really what affects me.

Personally if I see a frozen murder scene like the ones posted from Vietnam or whatever it has less of an impact. Of course the scene is gruesome, but it does not go further then that. 

Have to say that it is an interesting subject. One that goes over my head for sure. The incomprable Susan Sontag wrote an essay that is slightly pertinent to the subject http://southerncrossreview.org/35/sontag.htm

Keep in mind that we do not have to dig through the archives to find powerful images. Current crimes against humanity make Vietnam and WWII look like Disneyland. Check out the work from the gang at Magnum. Also check out Maryanne Golon and her crew at Time. Dig deep.

Love & Bass


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## deanimator (Jun 13, 2007)

The child + vulture + photographer suicide story is here
...for those who want to know...and perhaps understand something...
I think it´s important to look, and think...
http://www.mukto-mona.com/Articles/kevin_carter/sudan_child.htm


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## usayit (Jun 13, 2007)

deanimator said:


> The child + vulture + photographer suicide story is here
> ...for those who want to know...and perhaps understand something...
> I think it´s important to look, and think...
> http://www.mukto-mona.com/Articles/kevin_carter/sudan_child.htm



I've seen that photo a few times but never really knew the story behind it.  Very powerful.  Makes me wonder how many of us in that situation could snap that photo and simply walk away.


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## RMThompson (Jun 13, 2007)

This image has always spoken to me, because of the capture of pure horror in that girl's face.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/65/Kent_State_massacre.jpg

But what about this famous Photo. Taken at just the right time... looks staged but was not.

http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/speech/30 Oswald shot by Jack Ruby.jpg


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## Corry (Jun 13, 2007)

RMThompson said:


> This image has always spoken to me, because of the capture of pure horror in that girl's face.
> 
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/65/Kent_State_massacre.jpg
> 
> ...



I had to change your pictures to links, as per forum policy (if you don't own it, or you don't have written permission from the owner, then only link to it, don't post the photo itself)


I'm surprised at how much attention this thread has gotten, but very pleased with a lot of the replies.  Many of you make wonderful points.


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## Corry (Jun 13, 2007)

schumionbike said:


> That's a famous picture all right, shot by Eddie Adam in 1968 during the Tet Offensive in Saigon.  Just a little bit of history behind the shot.  The South Vietnamese and the Viet Cong had an agreement for a cease fire during Tet (Lunar New Year) to give peole a chance to enjoy the new year.  Right on the eve of New Year, after the Ho Chi Minh did his well wishes, the shot fire.  Did I mentioned that less than half the South Vietnamese military was on full alert at this point? A lesson they didn't forget.
> 
> Back to the photograph, the man holding the pistol was South Vietnamese General Nguyen Ngoc Loan, the man that was shot was Viet Cong captian who was believe to have killed the the wife and children of a South Vietnamese police officer.  You can read more about it if you just google Nguyen Ngoc Loan.
> 
> The reason I post this is to simply demonstrated that while picture do not lies, they certainly don't tell the whole story.



That is a very good point, too!  I highly doubt anyone would come to that conclusion if they saw that photo with no commentary as to what was going on.  

And I am also willing to bet that if everyone did know the story behind it, the photo would lose a lot of its impact.


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## RMThompson (Jun 13, 2007)

Most interesting about that photo of General Nguyen Ngoc Loan is that they were going to execute him inside, but they moved it to the outside so it would photograph better.


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## Corry (Jun 13, 2007)

Peanuts said:


> I find there is often a very fine line in between a powerful thought-provoking image and one that was taken solely for the reason of explotation. During my trip to Sierra Leone, I was constantly told by the head people to avoid "poverty porn" as they so called it - essentially, the images we are constantly bombarded with of 'poor starving kids in Africa with flies in their eyes'. It is definitely a reality, and a reality that should be brought attention to, but we are now essentially 'immune' to these images.
> 
> At the same time, if we were to hear of an event such as the one of Kim Phuc, how much thought would be put to it? Perhaps it is just me but images are so impactful. Seeing a face to a description makes it hit so much closer to home.
> 
> ...



Yet another good point to bring up.  We really have been bombarded with images such as that....and you're right....we've become immune to it.  I've noticed that even I seem to just pass those types of photos over.


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## deanimator (Jun 13, 2007)

How many here have seen the film "War Photographer"?
It´s a doco about James Nachtway...interesting to watch him at work, and see the photos, but also interesting is the impact this work has had on his life.

It´s another "must" for people following this thread if they haven´t already seen it.


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## The_Traveler (Jun 13, 2007)

deanimator said:


> How many here have seen the film "War Photographer"?
> It´s a doco about James Nachtway...interesting to watch him at work, and see the photos, but also interesting is the impact this work has had on his life.
> 
> It´s another "must" for people following this thread if they haven´t already seen it.



It's on Netflix and I just put it next in my queue.


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## Choleric (Jun 13, 2007)

Corry said:


> I actually had not seen that photo before.  And yes, it is very powerful.
> 
> It seems it is most often the bad things that become such powerful images....
> 
> ...can anyone think of a GOOD image that might be comparable?


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## danir (Jun 14, 2007)

Corry said:


> It seems it is most often the bad things that become such powerful images....
> 
> ...can anyone think of a GOOD image that might be comparable?


 

I think this can be generalized to all media. Music, literature, movies, poetry etc.

We are just more sensitive to horribles than to pleasantness.

Dani.


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## Jon_Are (Jun 19, 2007)

Love the Bobby Orr photo.

How about this famous Rock N Roll shot...

http://snaps.snapsoid.com/~rock-and-roll_assasins_lee-harvey-oswald#snapsbig

Jon


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## Alpha (Jun 20, 2007)

I was always blown away by Banksy's interpretation of that shot from Vietnam. Then again, IMO he's one of the most brilliant socially conscientious artists of our time.

http://banksy.co.uk/indoors/images/feeling5.jpg


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## craig (Jun 20, 2007)

Whoa! That link is on point. I will have to check out Bansky's work for sure.

Love & Bass


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## TDSapp (Jun 21, 2007)

I used to be a fire fighter in OKC and worked with Chris.  I was glad that I was not there on the day of the bombing.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Firefighterbabyocb.jpg


Tim Sapp


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## RaptorRex (Jun 21, 2007)

Since reading this article,
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/14/AR2006111401312_pf.html

I realize just how important cellphone cameras are now and what huge impacts they will have in the future. It is a little unnerving to know every step that we take outside our homes is on camera. But cameras in our own hands help balance the equation.


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