# Need some advice on recent wedding shots.



## bace (Sep 7, 2008)

So these are some shots from a recent wedding. I'm not good with C&C (one of the reason I don't post here that much), but I was hoping i could get some advice on how process some of these pics a little better. For example a lot of pictures I see around here are really sharp. Now, I don't know if that's something I'm missing on the equipment side (I shoot with a 50mm on a 350D badly need equipment upgrades but I'm poor so...that'll have to wait), or I can do something extra in the PS to make em look their best. Anyway, even color looks off on some of these too...thanks for looking and especially if you can help.












The arm...i know...


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## tirediron (Sep 8, 2008)

I'm not sure if by "I'm not good with C&C" you mean that you don't take criticism well, you don't understand it, or ?? However since you've asked for advice, I'll provide my thoughts and suggestions. First, for future reference, pls number your images, as it makes it much easier to reference specific shots. 

1. (Bride facing window): Nice idea, but not well executed. The washed out window and haze around her head are very harsh and distracting. The use of fill flash against her back would have reduced the dynamic range and evened the exposure considerably, reducing these issues. Also, when considering your compositions, watch for items such as the curtain rod and heater which are less than appealing.

2. (Finger to face): Nice expression, and good pose, however the dress is slightly over-exposed and the background is very distracting. For an image like this, separate your subject from the background and shoot wide open to reduce the DoF, also avoid background with vertical or horizontal patterns/linear elements as they tend to show through no matter how soft the focus.

3. (Bride mirror) Nice, a little bit of lens flare around her right elbow, but that's minor. Not your positioning however; her right arm is partly cropped by the mirror and her left arm is too near the camera servicing only as a blurred distraction. Good exposure and detail on the dress.

4. (Boat, OOF bride): There's too much going on in this image. The man and bouquet are well focused, with all of the other OOF elements, it's too busy and they can't support the image.

5. (Boat OOF man): Better execution, but the blown sky and harsh reflections on the water detract from the image. A circular polarizer and/or graduated ND filter would have helped greatly.

6. (Couple on path): Always, always, ALWAYS level your images in post. Remember, water doesn't run uphill, and trees rarely grow on angles. Again a good image which loses out due to background elements; the cans of bugspray(?) on the table and bit of overhead umbrella don't work. Also, make sure the subjects are looking toward you; not necessarily right down the barrel of the lens, but at least toward you. Call her name if you have to.

7. (Ceremony): Not bad, good exposure on the critical elements.

8. (Ring): Not bad, a little bright on the skin of her hand however. This would have been better redone after the ceremony from a higher perspective, looking down on the hands.

9. (Kiss): Good pose, but you were the victim of nature. The sky and time of day look to be about as bad as they could have been. This image need a bit of fill-flash to reduce the shadows in the foreground and perhaps a G-ND to help with the sky.

10. (Couple, bride looking): Not bad, again, she's looking away. Also note the spots on the back of the groom's jacket in this and preceding image. Those are things that MUST be taken care of in post if not at the time.

11. (Couple with child): Good.

12. Ceremony from behind auidence): Good, aspect isn't ideal, but clearly your options were limited.

13. (Kiss): Again, this image needs to be levelled, and both this and preceding one need a CPOL to remove the reflection from the water.

14. (Couple, bride w/ bouquet): Exposure on the couple isn't bad, however the water is very harsh; again, fill-flash was needed here, and perhaps a little less crop to include all the boquet?

15. (Couple): Again too tightly cropped for my taste; I would suggest opening this up to include all of both their heads and removing the large green leaf lower-right. 

Overall the images aren't bad. I don't see anything that strikes me as overly soft, but there are a number of images with white-balance issues. When you're doing an event like this out of doors, especially with shade, open light, and by the looks of it, everything in between, ensure that you shoot a white card frequently to allow for easier calibration of WB in post. In general, I'd say your biggest concern is your backgrounds and/or DoF. Good luck with your next one.

Just my $00.02 worth - your milage may vary.

~John


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## joecoulsonphotography (Sep 8, 2008)

I know that most people on here like to give long CC but I tend to just get right to the point. I personaly think that given you had one focal length to work with(which usually makes the photographer think more and move around more before each shot), the shots are outstanding. I always use my 50 at portrait shoots (personal taste) and get great results, but I would be chicken to use it all day at a wedding. Fortunately it looks as if the wedding was somewhat small and it wored out great. You will find that more and more people these days like tighter cropping and off level pictures, that is usually discussed before an event. Photojournalistic is what they seem to call it and I think you have done a nice job. I would only say that until you have other equipment options, use the len's strengths. DOF and candid style head shots work well with the 50.


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## bace (Sep 9, 2008)

tirediron said:


> I'm not sure if by "I'm not good with C&C" you mean that you don't take criticism well, you don't understand it, or ?? However since you've asked for advice, I'll provide my thoughts and suggestions. First, for future reference, pls number your images, as it makes it much easier to reference specific shots.
> 
> 1. (Bride facing window): Nice idea, but not well executed. The washed out window and haze around her head are very harsh and distracting. The use of fill flash against her back would have reduced the dynamic range and evened the exposure considerably, reducing these issues. Also, when considering your compositions, watch for items such as the curtain rod and heater which are less than appealing.
> 
> ...



So thanks for the suggestions. Awesome advice. Really, you must be perfect at what you do.

Does anyone have any advice on how to help my pictures to look sharper in post, or to sharpen them up at the actual event.

The reason I don't like C&C is because your opinion on what looks good is usually the same as mine. Unfortunately on the day of the event we do what we can. So that's why specifically I didn't ask for what was wrong with my composition or DOF. I asked about the sharpening, and color.

If anyone can help me with that I'd appreciate it greatly.

:hail:


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## vidish (Sep 9, 2008)

bace said:


> Unfortunately on the day of the event we do what we can. So that's why specifically I didn't ask for what was wrong with my composition or DOF. I asked about the sharpening, and color.



Hi there Bace

The purpose of C&C is not to point what you did wrong so much as to some suggestions as to what you can try in the event your find yourself in the same scenario.  

If you wish to pursue shooting weddings many tough lighting, framing and posing situations will present themselves many times over and what better than to know how to handle them when they come up?

Doing what you can may be okay but sometimes you have to get creative  

That said as far as color and sharpening you can make some curves adjustments in in Photoshop and use Smart Sharpen just a touch.

I'm not picking on you or anything so please don't take it that way.

HTH

-vidish


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## bace (Sep 9, 2008)

vidish said:


> Hi there Bace
> 
> The purpose of C&C is not to point what you did wrong so much as to some suggestions as to what you can try in the event your find yourself in the same scenario.
> 
> ...



Yes, i get that, thank you again.

But when you specifically ask for advice on one thing and someone gives you advice on something else, that's just antagonizing.

I'm well aware of the things I did wrong at the wedding. Again, equipment plays a part, weather was terrible, and the location made for very little options. I did the best I could and you can rest assured that my clients were VERY happy. I on the other hand am not. I know what makes a good pictures though. I'm not here for composition and lighting lessons. If I was, I would have asked for it.

Like I said, I appreciate the comments, but ask again for and advice on the things I specifically asked for advice on. 

Post Color and Sharpening.

I guess I'll just read another tutorial and leave this forum alone because for some reason a few people just can't understand simple English.


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## vidish (Sep 9, 2008)

I did answer your question regarding sharpening and color.  

Implying people can't understand English is rather unnecessary when you're the one who needs help.


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## Kegger (Sep 9, 2008)

Vidish just gave you the answer, use Curves for color adjustments and Smart Sharpen to up the sharpness a tiny bit.


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## bace (Sep 9, 2008)

vidish said:


> I did answer your question regarding sharpening and color.
> 
> Implying people can't understand English is rather unnecessary when you're the one who needs help.



I was talking in general. To anyone else who might have some other tips.

Yours were very useful. Thankyou.

Also your English skills are very sharp and colorful (wonh wonh)


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## joecoulsonphotography (Sep 9, 2008)

Gave you a compliment on your shots, but I will C&C your attitude. Lighten up!


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## tirediron (Sep 9, 2008)

bace said:


> So thanks for the suggestions. Awesome advice. Really, you must be perfect at what you do.


 
No, not at all.  I like to think of myself as a decent photographer, but nothing more.  I apologize for not directly addressing your question regarding improving the images in post-processing.  Instead, I tried to provide answers which might help you 'Get it right in the camera' in future.


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## aprileve (Sep 9, 2008)

my favorite is the second one...even with the horizontal lines. it's really pretty and the grey background is perfect for it.


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## Crimsonandwhite (Sep 10, 2008)

bace said:


> Yes, i get that, thank you again.
> 
> But when you specifically ask for advice on one thing and someone gives you advice on something else, that's just antagonizing.
> 
> ...


 
Well if you can't level a picture in post then hoping you can get it sharp and the white balance correct is a stretch.  If there are that many issues with your shots, taking the easy way out and saying that's all I could do in those conditions, makes you lazy.  And if you are happy with lazy images and your cleints are happy with lazy images then thats fine, but you will always get paid for lazy images and you will always sit back and wonder why people pay $10k for a wedding photographer.  

Get pissed off and go sulk if you want, but sometimes things are the way they are......


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## bace (Sep 27, 2008)

Let's clarify something that makes me hate this place. Art is subjective. What you think looks great, isn't what I think is great. So trying to impose 'your style' on me, is a waste of ****ing time, and in most cases comes across as highly pretentious.

You make 10k a wedding? Really? ****ing great for you dude, you pompous ****. You've got the equipment the resources and probably the time to take it seriously enough. What I have, is what you see. And when I come here and ask a few questions regarding some post options I don't give a **** what you think about my composition or whether you think it's not "level", which by the way, MY clients loved. They also loved the shots I did for one of their best friends. That's why the ****ing hired me. And paid me quite handsomely. Gee...I wonder why they wanted me to take pictures at their wedding? Because they love my style?

Now, I know very well how to level a picture in post thank you very much. What I was asking about was some suggestions regarding color and sharpening. Now if you can't give suggestions about that, like everyone else, what in the **** was the point in you even posting here? To comment on my attitude?

My attitude was fine until dumb****s like you came into the thread.

Have a nice day.

P.S. **** = F.U.C.K.

I KNOW I'M SUCH A BADASS.

Die in a fire.


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## Nein-reis (Sep 27, 2008)

Wow... just, wow.


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## Nein-reis (Sep 27, 2008)

I'm not sure why, but I will help.

Overcast days are my favorite time to shoot, but white balance usually gets thrown into the blue and gray like yours above if you do not correct the white balance in camera first.

So for correcting the color, if you shoot RAW then it is very easy in CS2/CS3 or canons software supplied with the camera.  Just adjust the sliders till it reaches a point you like, I usually shoot for 5800K.

If you do not shoot raw then you need to fix it in photoshop.  First use levels to adjust it to a brightness you like.  Then use curves, pull blue down at the center to warm the image.  Watch the dress or whites to make sure they are not turing blue/yellow.

Sharpening:
You can use unsharp mask and get pretty good results, however I prefer using highpass filter.  create a duplicate layer>set to overlay>fliter>highpass>adjust the filter till it looks as sharp as you like.  then drop it just a bit.  merge to new layer>create duplicate layer again>filter>highpass and sharpen again looking at only smaller details like the eyes and lips.  Then add a quick mask and invert it to black.  Paint over the eyes and lips with white.  Over sharpening smaller details like this will make the entire image appear sharper with out over sharpening every thing.

Hope this helps, and people are not trying to put you down.  Critique helps us grow into better photographers.


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## bace (Sep 28, 2008)

Nein-reis said:


> I'm not sure why, but I will help.
> 
> Overcast days are my favorite time to shoot, but white balance usually gets thrown into the blue and gray like yours above if you do not correct the white balance in camera first.
> 
> ...



THANKYOU. Seriously. Thank you very much.

As much as "Critique" is supposed to help, believe me when I say I'm my own worst critic. As it stands this is my 6th wedding. I'm not charging much (but more than enough) and I will grow. But as I mentioned right away, I wasn't asking for C&C. Mostly because when people give it, it's based on their opinion of what they think is good. And I'm sorry, when people are saying that "my pictures aren't level" (if you don't like it that's cool...i do, my customers do...piss off) or that "the heater is in the shot" (wow ya think? really? Sorry I didn't notice it at the time, but thanks I already know it's there I can't very well go back and change it. Thanks for pointing out the obvious though!!!), I mean I could go on, but believe me, these are all things I thought about myself after the fact.

Which again, is why I was asking a different question. With THOSE particular pictures. How can I improve sharpness and color. It's like I'm speaking greek.

Nein-reis, thank you. This was truly helpful!!!


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## Nein-reis (Sep 28, 2008)

I'm glad I could be helpful.  Really I am, thats why we are all here.

A quick word of advice then I will drop the subject.  When members tell you that there is a heater in your photo, its not to tell you that you should go back in time.  Everyone has perfect 20/20 hindsight, its to invoke a higher sense of awareness when shooting.  By telling you about it in this photo the next time you run into the same situation maybe you will remember to handle it a bit differently and grow as a photographer.

Critique is not there to tell you your photos are junk, just to educate.  I would never be where I am at now without some harsh critique.  Just a thought.

I'm sorry your question wasn't answered the first time, from now on it will get answered faster if you take what people say with a grain of salt and ignore the critique if you don't want it.  But I do honestly believe listening to it will help a lot.

In the professional world its all about capturing a image the client will love, and since you did that you should give yourself a big pat on the back.  Well done.


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## Flash Harry (Sep 28, 2008)

On dull days try using fill flash to have the pics "pop" a little more then boost the saturation in PP, although overcast days will give very even lighting its pretty flat so needs flash really. I also agree with the previous poster with his/her PP tips, the shots are good but need photoshop to help them out. H


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## bace (Sep 28, 2008)

Nein-reis said:


> I'm glad I could be helpful.  Really I am, thats why we are all here.
> 
> A quick word of advice then I will drop the subject.  When members tell you that there is a heater in your photo, its not to tell you that you should go back in time.  Everyone has perfect 20/20 hindsight, its to invoke a higher sense of awareness when shooting.  By telling you about it in this photo the next time you run into the same situation maybe you will remember to handle it a bit differently and grow as a photographer.
> 
> ...



Like I said sir, I'm my own worst critic. The things that are obvious, are obvious to everyone. Especially me. Having some nincompoop point them out, while skirting the real question asked, is just pouring salt into the wound.

Think about it this way; If you got into a fender bender because you were fiddling with the radio station, do you really need everyone to tell you that you should have been paying attention?


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## Arch (Sep 28, 2008)

Ummm... yea a little less swearing in this thread please.

As for the pics, you will find ALOT of wedding photographers use actions on thier pics (some to save time, others becuase they don't really know anything about PP)... they are useful tho and there are a few around which give an instant colour pop... have a look for a few free ones and try them out.

As for sharpening, you can use smart sharpen or USM in PS... for web use, after you have re-sized them RE-SHARPEN them also... just a touch more not alot... this will make them look dead sharp online... but you probably wouldn't want to print with this much sharpening applied.
All my shots displayed online would have been sharpened twice.


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## manaheim (Sep 28, 2008)

hoo boy.

BTW, something else probably worth mentioning is that being aware of where your lenses "sweet spot" can be a big help in getting images sharp right out of the camera.  I haven't yet looked up the 50mm 1.8 (I assume it was a 1.8...), but I've found a _lot _of lenses work best about 1-2 stops down from their largest, and 1/3 of the way in from their widest (obviously doesn't apply in your case).


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## bace (Sep 28, 2008)

Just wanted to say again, Nein Reis, I actually got some time this after noon to go over one of these shots with you technique, and it has improved the shot exactly how I needed it too. Thanks again.


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## bace (Sep 28, 2008)

before and after sharpening...


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## manaheim (Sep 28, 2008)

^^ wow those two really pop.  I don't love the vignetting (personal preference), but the shots are beautiful.


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