# Does going full time equal being "more legit"



## photogirl2002 (May 12, 2011)

I am currently a part time child photographer, looking to go full time on my own. I have been working in the journalism/photo journalism field for 13 years (+) My question is, do you think someone looking for a child photographer would look more toward someone who does it as  full time job versus someone who does it part time?

I don't do it part time because I make a lot of money at my first job. I do my first job because that's what my degree was in and it's where I've stayed. I would like to make photography my daytime job, but I do realize it is difficult.

I wonder, though, if clients would be more interested if I said "I'm a full time photographer" rather than "I do it on the weekends."

It's kind of like a mechanic or a doctor -- do you want to go to one who "just does it on the side?" I don't know....just a question.


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## ghache (May 12, 2011)

IMO, if you have excellent work to show, full time or not, i dont think it makes a difference. 

Dont advertise yourself as a full time or part time photographer. Advertise yourself as a photographer and book you shoot in the time you feel is good for you to shoot, even if its only on the weekend.

We are in the same boat. I can't quit my day job because i make too much money to flush that job and on the other side i cant do photography full time because i wont be able to pay my billls because i wouldnt be able to shoot 3-4 gigs a weeks right now because the demand is simply not there yet


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## photogirl2002 (May 12, 2011)

Agreed and I have those items in place currently. Good point.


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## c.cloudwalker (May 12, 2011)

ghache said:


> Dont advertise yourself as a full time or part time photographer.


 
Agreed. Why would you even mention whether you are full or part time? You are a photographer. Period.

And if someone wants to book you on a day you are busy with your other job, just say "sorry, I'm booked on that day. How about Saturday?"


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## ghache (May 12, 2011)

Just dont bull**** your clients. There is nothing wrong to say that you work 2 jobs.


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## mishele (May 12, 2011)

Where in Pa are you from?


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## c.cloudwalker (May 12, 2011)

ghache said:


> There is nothing wrong to say that you work 2 jobs.


 
Yes there is. A successful photog does not work two jobs. And the average customer wants a successful photog. Even if they are only paying $50 for the sitting and a few 8x10s...

But there is a big difference between bull****ing and not telling it all. There is no law, yet, that says we have to tell our entire life story to every customer.


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## ghache (May 12, 2011)

c.cloudwalker said:


> ghache said:
> 
> 
> > There is nothing wrong to say that you work 2 jobs.
> ...


 
You are totally wrong. I know a couple successfull photographer who works 2 jobs. One is a paramedic (who was initially a cop) and the other one work in finance in my office and i am sure there are not the only ones


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## Mike_E (May 12, 2011)

You might find all that booking a venue for a weekend and scheduling all of your sessions there for the week would be beneficial.  Serves to give the impression that you are an established child portrait artist without having to devote all of your time to it.

Give it 2 hours per sitting and 5 a day for 20 sittings a week and only do it once a month or even two.  This way you have 3 or 4 weekends a month for yourself and still get to shoot the kids.


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## ghache (May 12, 2011)

And at my local shop, renting gear is cheaper to rent for a full weekend from friday to monday morning than renting it for 1 week day. lovely.


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## c.cloudwalker (May 12, 2011)

ghache said:


> c.cloudwalker said:
> 
> 
> > ghache said:
> ...


 
You added the bold and you added the quotation marks but you didn't get the irony? I guess you didn't read the rest of it... You must be too darn busy with your important job that keeps you from becoming a full time photog to notice the details that keep you from getting the shots that would make you a photog. Have I lost you?

Let me spell it out for you. It is not how I feel. I was talking from the customer's perspective.


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## bennielou (May 13, 2011)

People judge you on your portfolio.  They don't care if you have degrees, work full time or part time, have a studio or don't have a studio, have certification, or whether you are buds with Rockstars.  They only care about what you can bring to them.
And each of those prospective clients have indiviual wants and needs.  They are going to ALWAYS choose the person who has a style they want, and a price they can afford, and that's about it.


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## bennielou (May 13, 2011)

c.cloudwalker said:


> ghache said:
> 
> 
> > There is nothing wrong to say that you work 2 jobs.
> ...


 

What?????????????  I know a ton of great photogs who work and make tons of money working a second job.  Doesn't make them less of a photog.


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## bennielou (May 13, 2011)

Mike_E said:


> You might find all that booking a venue for a weekend and scheduling all of your sessions there for the week would be beneficial. Serves to give the impression that you are an established child portrait artist without having to devote all of your time to it.
> 
> Give it 2 hours per sitting and 5 a day for 20 sittings a week and only do it once a month or even two. This way you have 3 or 4 weekends a month for yourself and still get to shoot the kids.


 
Ok, I don't get (and have never gotten) the whole "impression" deal.    I've seen this more times than I can say, and it NEVER works.  Let me put it this way.....having a jazzy studio, does not a photography success make.  Being a great photog working in an overgrown field gets tons of clients.  You can only impress potential clients with your photos.  They really don't give a rat about "impressions".  In fact sometimes going all jazzy can turn them off because they wonder about how much of their money is going to "impressing" them.  I pitch against that constantly. It's easy to get them out of the ether on that one.


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## Big Mike (May 13, 2011)

> Ok, I don't get (and have never gotten) the whole "impression" deal. I've seen this more times than I can say, and it NEVER works. Let me put it this way.....having a jazzy studio, does not a photography success make. Being a great photog working in an overgrown field gets tons of clients. You can only impress potential clients with your photos. They really don't give a rat about "impressions". In fact sometimes going all jazzy can turn them off because they wonder about how much of their money is going to "impressing" them. I pitch against that constantly. It's easy to get them out of the ether on that one.


Yes and no.  It really depends on your clientele.   For example, when you walk into a Mercedes dealership...it's usually pretty s****y and makes a good impression.  People who already expect to be spending a lot of money, likely appreciate the good impression.  But of course, many people are on the other side of the spectrum and might be put off by any perceived extravagance.


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## c.cloudwalker (May 13, 2011)

Big Mike said:


> > Ok, I don't get (and have never gotten) the whole "impression" deal. I've seen this more times than I can say, and it NEVER works. Let me put it this way.....having a jazzy studio, does not a photography success make. Being a great photog working in an overgrown field gets tons of clients. You can only impress potential clients with your photos. They really don't give a rat about "impressions". In fact sometimes going all jazzy can turn them off because they wonder about how much of their money is going to "impressing" them. I pitch against that constantly. It's easy to get them out of the ether on that one.
> 
> 
> Yes and no. * It really depends on your clientele.*   For example, when you walk into a Mercedes dealership...it's usually pretty s****y and makes a good impression.  People who already expect to be spending a lot of money, likely appreciate the good impression.  But of course, many people are on the other side of the spectrum and might be put off by any perceived extravagance.


 
I really agree with the part I bolded. I designed my studio with the help of 2 friends who were investors in the project and future clients as well and they thought it should be snazzy enough to make an impression on other potential clients of their level. Their way of putting it was basically this: If I'm going to dump a ton of money in your pocket, I want to see some of it when I visit the studio.

So the entry hall/reception area, the PP room, the conference room and other rooms potentially used by clients are pretty snazzy. The shooting area are not because they are functional but they are kept as clean as the rest because that was one thing mentioned during the design phase.

But to be honest, being an artist and having done a lot of construction myself, it didn't cost much


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## Mike_E (May 13, 2011)

bennielou said:


> Mike_E said:
> 
> 
> > You might find all that booking a venue for a weekend and scheduling all of your sessions there for the week would be beneficial. Serves to give the impression that you are an established child portrait artist without having to devote all of your time to it.
> ...


 
Yep, you really didn't get it.  A:  some people think that if you don't have a place of business then you aren't really in business and they aren't going to pay you.  B:  A lot of photographers don't really have an adequate place to do portraits or at least not on an industrial scale so for them going 'full time' means getting a studio. and C:  if you are really going pro then you have Got to get your scheduling down or you'll go broke driving from place to place.  Renting a venue or an existing studio and scheduling a full day's work or even two will keep you from running around burning up all of your time and keep you from burning yourself out.


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## imagemaker46 (May 13, 2011)

c.cloudwalker said:


> ghache said:
> 
> 
> > There is nothing wrong to say that you work 2 jobs.
> ...



The world is full of very talented and unsuccessful photographers.  It all depends on how you define success as well. Does it simply mean having the big house, new car and a huge bank account. Or does it simply mean that you are respected as a photographer by your peers and clients.


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## c.cloudwalker (May 13, 2011)

imagemaker46 said:


> The world is full of very talented and unsuccessful photographers. Is that supposed to be you?
> 
> It all depends on how you define success as well. Does it simply mean having the big house, new car and a huge bank account. Or does it simply mean that you are respected as a photographer by your peers and clients.


 
Stop your whining and start selling.


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## ghache (May 13, 2011)

c.cloudwalker said:


> imagemaker46 said:
> 
> 
> > The world is full of very talented and unsuccessful photographers. Is that supposed to be you?
> ...


 
i loled.


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## imagemaker46 (May 13, 2011)

ghache you loled, good for you and your high paying government job, if I was in your position I wouldn't quit my day job either, but in the mean time I'll work in the profession that you will only ever dream of.  Cloudwalker you talk of being a former professional photographer, I would have thought that you would know some very talented photographers that just never made it, guess I was mistaken. In the past 40 years I've met quite a few around the world.

So what is the the measure of professional success?  Does it just come down to material goods, the house, the car, the money in the bank?  

What does professional success mean to me, respect from my professional peers.

Does it matter that I've covered eight Olympics, four PanAmerican Games, four Commonwealth Games, photo co-ordinator at five World Championship events, personal photographer to a Canadian Prime Minister, Photo editor at newspaper, worked for two wire services, I could fill alot of pages, but what's the point, just conceited right?  Just fact right........... None of this matters if I didn't have the respect from my peers as a great photographer. I always worked my ass off to help anyone make sure they got THEIR pictures.  I have found very few people on this forum that could cut it as professionals day to day,and that's fine, it is largely an amateur forum, there are some very talented people on here, the majority are shooting weddings, some don't even pretend to be great photographers, but still post really nice images. Bitter is one of those guys that doesn't toss a lot of ****, but when he posted a couple of his civil war reenactment photos you could see that he really did have a clue, there are others as well.

I get tired of reading all the crap from the "professionals" that jump the bandwagon trying to fit in because like lemmings they all want to jump off the same stupid cliff.


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## ghache (May 13, 2011)

imagemaker46 said:


> ghache you loled, good for you and your high paying government job, if I was in your position I wouldn't quit my day job either, but in the mean time I'll work in the profession that you will only ever dream of. Cloudwalker you talk of being a former professional photographer, I would have thought that you would know some very talented photographers that just never made it, guess I was mistaken. In the past 40 years I've met quite a few around the world.
> 
> So what is the the measure of professional success? Does it just come down to material goods, the house, the car, the money in the bank?
> 
> ...


 
I am 26 year old, i think i might have plenty of time ahead to do whatever the hell i want in life. In the meantime, continue your internet whining and crying
Respect from your peers? jesus christ. start by having more reprect to a crowd that might become your "peers" instaid of crying and bashing the hell out of them, I would be a good start . You are one funny man.


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## imagemaker46 (May 13, 2011)

It is respect "from" my peers, not "for" my peers. One day when you grow up a little more you will understand that respect carries alot more importance.  The difference between you and me is that if you were working at an event I was the photo co-ordinator at, I would do everything I could  to help you get the photos that you need. I've delt with some of the worlds biggest jerks and I treat everyone the same. Regardless of what I think of them as people, they are professional photographers.  I don't have to respect them, they have to earn my respect.  

At 26 you have your whole life ahead if you, nice government job, have a pretty good eye with a camera and yet you still don't understand anything I say, once again i'll give you the language card. 

Been to the new sports complex in Gatineau yet?, it's really nice. Maybe I'll be working an event there and can help you out, as I said I treat everyone the same.


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## imagemaker46 (May 13, 2011)

I see that you went back and edited your original post. I will just add that when you quit your day job and make your living from just photography I will call you my photographic peer, until that day, just not going to happen, sorry.


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## ghache (May 13, 2011)

imagemaker46 said:


> It is respect "from" my peers, not "for" my peers. One day when you grow up a little more you will understand that respect carries alot more importance. The difference between you and me is that if you were working at an event I was the photo co-ordinator at, I would do everything I could to help you get the photos that you need. I've delt with some of the worlds biggest jerks and I treat everyone the same. Regardless of what I think of them as people, they are professional photographers. I don't have to respect them, they have to earn my respect.
> 
> At 26 you have your whole life ahead if you, nice government job, have a pretty good eye with a camera and yet you still don't understand anything I say, once again i'll give you the language card.
> 
> Been to the new sports complex in Gatineau yet?, it's really nice. Maybe I'll be working an event there and can help you out, as I said I treat everyone the same.



I've been there a few times already. My godson likes the pool


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## imagemaker46 (May 13, 2011)

Couple of good swim meets coming up this summer. Light isn't very good, even with the windows.


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## Peanuts (May 14, 2011)

> A successful photog does not work two jobs.



I've had my business for over 2 years and been a full time university student for 4. Pretty sure all of my clients know this. I consider myself to be rather legit and some would say successful. Sure one isn't paying but it requires the same if not more of a time commitment than another job. So.....


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## jaykilgore (May 14, 2011)

I think it's all about perception.

I have all kinds of people come to my workshops, come for one on ones and things of the sort. I have people who have their CPP, "Masters" from PPA, I have people who have spent 80k on a degree from Brooks, to those who spent 40k on a degree from the Art Institute. At the end of the day, the client wants the best deal for them. Do not get caught up in the "value of your work". It's all b.s. It's about your ability to sell yourself and your product.

Will your client care if your full time or not? Some may, most will not. There are many who have the CPP who swear by it. I've beaten out MANY CPP photogs for jobs, weddings, magazines and I wouldn't dream of paying for a title that means nothing. Have a product that people want and let everything else work itself out. You have no reason to offer up your full or part time, it's irrelevant to everyone but you. Let it go and do what you love. If you have quality and business skills, you'll do just fine.

This is all imho of course.


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## Christie Photo (May 14, 2011)

There's one aspect about "being legit" that has not yet been addressed: *service*.  That's what makes you "ligit."

There are many sub-markets within the industry.  People choose a photographer for a lot of very different reasons.
On some level, they ask themselves:
How does this help me perform better?
Does this make me look sharp?
Am I getting the cutting edge?
Am I getting good value?
Does this satisfy my needs/solve a problem?
Will this help calm a fear?
Is this easy?
Am I getting quality?
An so on.

But when a photographer doesn't follow through in a timely manner with all he or she promised, THAT is when one is considered to be less than legitimate.

-Pete


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