# "Speeding-Up" the Canon 5d mkIII; taking images that little bit faster.



## RB_Photography (Jan 12, 2014)

Alright, so a little bit of background story to better explain what I am asking. I am a photography student shooting with a Canon 5d mkIII and a 24-105 f4 lens. If I could have some better glass I would but money is a bit of an issue right now so I have to work with what I have. I know my lens may be playing a slight part in this issue, or what I am asking. 
I hope I can explain this clearly as possible.  

Some of my photography teachers have been talking about how the new dSLRs are just that little bit slower than the original film cameras. Being when you press down the shutter button, some processing needs to happen before the image is captured. Obviously there is a fair amount of info being processed while that button is being held down. That processing can result in the image not quite being how the photographer may want it. I understand that pressing the shutter button down before something happens can help, such as predicting what is to come, or having the bust mode or multiple frame setting on. I also understand that certain auto-focus and other settings can make a difference. 

I am wondering if its possible to speed up this process, to make it all happen a little faster. Such as turning certain settings deeper in the camera menu off so when the shutter button is pressed down, the image can be more quickly? 

Any info or idea would be greatly appreciated. This is mainly out of curiosity, as in class we have discussed this a few times, and I have not much through google searching. 

Thanks in advance!


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## Designer (Jan 12, 2014)

I don't know what those photography teachers are on about, but IMO, it is the focusing that causes the camera lag.

Turn off auto focus.


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## Derrel (Jan 12, 2014)

I know that in the Nikon D2x, turning the image review to OFF sped the camera up by a significant amount in terms of milliseconds of delay between pressing the shutter and the image ACTUALLY being made. AS I recall, it was 85 or 87 milliseconds with automatic image review left On, and with it set to Off, it was, if my memory is correct, 59 milliseconds; at the TIME, late 2004, that was the fastest d-slr lag time in the industry. I believe that the serious enthusiast bodies like 5D-II and D800 have equalled or surpassed that speed today.


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## runnah (Jan 12, 2014)

Sounds like your teachers are a bit mistaken. Turn off auto focus and shoot in manual mode and most camera are instant action. What gets in the way is all the assists. Cameras are much faster in terms of FPS than they were in the mechanical days. Now the only thing slowing your camera down is the buffer speed and write speed of your card.


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## RB_Photography (Jan 12, 2014)

Derrel said:


> I know that in the Nikon D2x, turning the image review to OFF sped the camera up by a significant amount in terms of milliseconds of delay between pressing the shutter and the image ACTUALLY being made. AS I recall, it was 85 or 87 milliseconds with automatic image review left On, and with it set to Off, it was, if my memory is correct, 59 milliseconds; at the TIME, late 2004, that was the fastest d-slr lag time in the industry. I believe that the serious enthusiast bodies like 5D-II and D800 have equalled or surpassed that speed today.



There we go! Thank you! I'll look into that. A few milliseconds really doesn't make that much of a difference but anything can help. 
I really was just curious about this, being the naturally curious person I am I had to look into it! Im at a motor spots event on the 18th and 19th, I'll give this a shot (ha!) and see what the results are. I'll let you know Derrel is it makes a difference! 



runnah said:


> Sounds like your teachers are a bit mistaken. Turn off auto focus and shoot in manual mode and most camera are instant action. What gets in the way is all the assists. Cameras are much faster in terms of FPS than they were in the mechanical days. Now the only thing slowing your camera down is the buffer speed and write speed of your card.



They more than likely are, well to a certain extent. Certain settings will make the camera faster or slower. I was wondering if there was anything beyond auto-focus that could potentially make a difference.


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## Derrel (Jan 12, 2014)

Here is an article showing both shutter lag times and viewfinder blackout times for many Canon models.  Canon EOS 5D Mark III Review


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## Josh66 (Jan 12, 2014)

If you're only talking about shutter lag - the time between pressing the button and a picture being taken - I don't think there is anything you can do.

(Obviously, it you're using AF and you didn't focus before pressing the button, it will take longer - but that's a separate issue to shutter lag.)


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## shaylou (Jan 12, 2014)

I'm just curious why they are even talking about this. There is know way a person could tell the difference of such a tiny amount of time.


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## imagemaker46 (Jan 12, 2014)

Everyone knows that a faster camera produces better images.


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## KmH (Jan 12, 2014)

It sounds like the teachers may be discounting how long mechanical shutter lag can be. It is not instantaneous.


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## Josh66 (Jan 12, 2014)

shaylou said:


> I'm just curious why they are even talking about this. There is know way a person could tell the difference of such a tiny amount of time.





RB_Photography said:


> Some of my photography teachers have been talking about how the new dSLRs are just that little bit slower than the original film cameras. Being when you press down the shutter button, some processing needs to happen before the image is captured. Obviously there is a fair amount of info being processed while that button is being held down. That processing can result in the image not quite being how the photographer may want it. I understand that pressing the shutter button down before something happens can help, such as predicting what is to come, or having the bust mode or multiple frame setting on. I also understand that certain auto-focus and other settings can make a difference.


It almost sounds like the photography teacher has never used a DSLR and just assumes that they have the same shutter lag that a P&S or cell phone has - since they're all digital, they must all be the same, right?


I can't honestly see anyone who has used a DSLR complaining about shutter lag...


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## RB_Photography (Jan 12, 2014)

imagemaker46 said:


> Everyone knows that a faster camera produces better images.





KmH said:


> It sounds like the teachers may be discounting how long mechanical shutter lag can be. It is not instantaneous.





RB_Photography said:


> Some of my photography teachers have been talking about how the new dSLRs are just that little bit slower than the original film cameras. Being when you press down the shutter button, some processing needs to happen before the image is captured. Obviously there is a fair amount of info being processed while that button is being held down. That processing can result in the image not quite being how the photographer may want it. I understand that pressing the shutter button down before something happens can help, such as predicting what is to come, or having the bust mode or multiple frame setting on. I also understand that certain auto-focus and other settings can make a difference.



It almost sounds like the photography teacher has never used a DSLR and just assumes that they have the same shutter lag that a P&S or cell phone has - since they're all digital, they must all be the same, right?

I can't honestly see anyone who has used a DSLR complaining about shutter lag...[/QUOTE]

The two of them are pretty old school.... one of them perches the Leica 35mm. However, all the teachers in my program work professionally in the field. The two of them talking about how once the shutter button is pressed the image is not captured "instantly" but a matter of milliseconds later, stirred up my question that I asked here. 

I do know that P&S cameras are not as fast as some dSLRs. You press the shutter button and there is a very brief moment of processing. 

A Nikon Coolpix can have around 1800 milliseconds of shutter lag
While a Canon EOS-1D mkII has 40 milliseconds of shutter lag

A Canon EOS-1n RS film SLR has 6

Thats just some stuff I found of wikipedia (not the most reliable source in the world) but it goes with what I was asking, if in dSRLs today there is any way to shorten that.


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## Josh66 (Jan 12, 2014)

RB_Photography said:


> A Canon EOS-1n RS film SLR has 6


The 1N RS is like my "main camera" - I use it nearly every day.

It only has a 6ms shutter lag while in "RS" mode.  In the "regular" mode, I think it has something like a 10ms lag, which is still exceptional.





"A matter of milliseconds", in practical terms is the same thing as "instantaneous".  No human can detect the difference...

I wouldn't worry about it too much...


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## Josh66 (Jan 12, 2014)

BTW, if they are using the 1N RS as the "reference point", that right there makes the whole argument BS.  It was the state-of-the-art ... 20 years ago.  It still may have the lowest shutter lag, but in the real world, that doesn't matter much.


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## Josh66 (Jan 12, 2014)

BTW, the reason it's faster in RS mode is that AF is disabled.  The whole 'mechanism' that does the focusing moves out of the way (when you press the shutter release half way) in RS mode (it apparently takes 4ms for that to happen in the "normal" mode).  And the 1N RS has a pellicle mirror - the mirror does not move when you take a picture - you shoot through the mirror, which is really just a thin mylar film.  You lose 2/3 of a stop because of this.


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## imagemaker46 (Jan 13, 2014)

The lag on high end digital cameras does not affect anything.  This is just another example of a tech geek teacher pointing out something that has no relevance to the image being produced.


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## runnah (Jan 13, 2014)

imagemaker46 said:


> The lag on high end digital cameras does not affect anything.  This is just another example of a tech geek teacher pointing out something that has no relevance to the image being produced.



+1

When you start worrying about milliseconds of delay between shutter release I think you are worrying about the wrong things in life.


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## Big Mike (Jan 13, 2014)

People have mentioned using manual focus to speed things up.  And while that can certainly help, it doesn't cover the issue fully.

You camera (I believe) has three focus modes, One Shot, AI Servo and AI Focus.  In One shot mode (and in AI Focus, I think) the camera won't open the shutter until the AF has been confirmed.  How quickly the AF reaches it's target and stops, depends on many factors including the lens, the camera's auto focus abilities, the light levels and the situation in which you are in.  
So even if you are already focused on or close to your subject, if the shutter release button is also the auto focus 'on' button, then there will be some amount of delay (over and above the base shutter lag).

However, if you use AI Servo mode, the camera does not wait for AF confirmation.  So in this mode, the total shutter lag is going to be shorter/faster.  Of course, this also means that your chances of getting an OOF image are higher.  

What I have been doing for many years, is using the technique of 'back button focus'.  Your camera likely has an 'AF-ON' button on the back, and older cameras would allow the user to set AF to the * button.  Either way, I also remove AF from the shutter button...so the camera only focuses when I press the rear button with my thumb.  So when the rear button is not depressed, the camera acts like it's in manual focus mode and (I would think) has a slightly faster shutter lag.


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## bratkinson (Jan 13, 2014)

Milliseconds are only of concern when talking about shutterspeed as it affects overall exposure in photography. Other than that, milliseconds matter if you are designing computer equipment. 

Yes, the older point and shoot cameras had an extremely frustrating 'shutter lag' when the button was pressed...especially in low light. But with a DSLR, shutter lag is, for all intents, a non-issue. But there ARE some low light/slow lens situations where it COULD take the camera a fraction of a second to achieve focus.

And use manual focus? Let's see...look through the viewfinder with no 35mm film camera-style focusing screen, reach for and rotate the focus ring on the lens, then click the shutter...what...2 seconds on a GOOD DAY???

Oh...and here's a shot with my 5D mark iii on "slow" AI-Servo auto-focus...


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## imagemaker46 (Jan 13, 2014)

Manual focus on any camera using any lens depends greatly on the person holding the camera. I grew up shooting sports focusing manual on high speed subjects, I still practice manual at every event I shoot. Do I focus better than the average camera owner, probably, but then it's all about practice.  I agree that the screens on digi cams aren't all that great and turning a motor in a lens isn't the same as a manual only lens, but it can be done, and for some things it's just as fast as using autofocus and in some cases better.


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## amolitor (Jan 13, 2014)

It's possible they instructors are comparing rangefinder film cameras with modern DSLRs, which is indeed a different kettle of fish.


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## runnah (Jan 13, 2014)

amolitor said:


> It's possible they instructors are comparing rangefinder film cameras with modern DSLRs, which is indeed a different kettle of fish.



It is, but still we are talking such a small amount of time I can't imagine anyone being bothered. 

Short of doing photography for chemical reactions, explosions, guns, accident testing etc... I cannot think of a setting where a DSLR is being used that a millisecond difference is going to matter.


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## Derrel (Jan 13, 2014)

I thought this article was interesting. The Brain: What Is the Speed of Thought? | DiscoverMagazine.com

I suspect the teacher preaching the milliseconds theory is the Leica 35mm teacher. Years ago, it was said that Leica cameras had around a 1/250 second shutter lag time, which is MUCH faster than ANY SLR cameras. The Leica rangefinder has no need to swing a mirror up, and close the lens iris down to shooting aperture before the exposure can be made. 1/250 second lag time is 4 milliseconds; that old fable might have some cred for some people, but the Wikipedia entry on shutter lag time lists the new Leica M7 film camera as having a 12 millisecond shutter lag time.

If anybody has even bothered to look at the list of shutter lag time and mirror black-out time, they's see that a low-end Canon T3 has about .26 seconds of delay combined between pressing the shutter release button, and the mirror coming back into viewing position. The cheapest Canon bodies listed in that extensive list have shutter lag times as long a one-tenth of a second.The Rebel T3 is a VERY sluggish camera. Shutter lag time is 110 milliseconds; a Canon 1DX is one of the fastest d-slrs, with a shutter lag time of 36 to 55 

milliseconds.Shutter lag - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What I have learned over the years is that one's own sense of timing takes a while to become refined between different camera models. When moving between a "slug", like a Nikon D70, and a fast camera, like a D2x or D3x, the reaction of the camera is much faster, both in firing, and in the viewfinder image coming back. With a "slug", you have to *a_n_t_i_c_i_p_a_t_e *and fire very early to capture what you think what "will soon be" happening. After using ANY specific camera for a few weeks, I think you get adapted to its lag times and the way it shoots.


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## LShooter (Jan 14, 2014)

Also, the 24-105 is a great piece of glass that will outlast your camera. It will take wonderful images if you know what you're doing with it.


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