# how to politely decline shooting a wedding



## kellylindseyphotography (Apr 29, 2008)

my cousin is getting married.  my whole family thinks i'm a built in photographer. i told my mother to please PLeASE reiterate that I don't have the desire or the skill to shoot weddings.  WHy do people think that just becasue you have a camera and like photography that you want to shoot their wedding for them for free?

I feel like no matter what I say, I'm stuck.  My cousin isn't hiring a photographer at all, they are getting hitched ASAP for some reason and didn't really plan much of anything.  They don't have money for a photographer and everyone in my family has this in their mind that "oh, kelly will be there, don't worry. she'll get shots for you"


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## McQueen278 (Apr 29, 2008)

Sounds like they aren't expecting much.  Tell them they can have all the pictures you were going to take anyway.  It politely says, "This is not wedding photography, it is pictures from your wedding."  Tell them to try to find a cheap wedding photographer thought, because it takes way more equipment than they realize which you don't have.  Whether or not you realistically have the equipment doesn't matter.


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## christopher walrath (Apr 29, 2008)

'I am not a wedding photographer.  I cannot take the pictures that I think should come out better.  Some photographers might take pictures and give you the film for a reduced rate.  Yatta.  Yatta.  Yatta.'


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## Sandspur (Apr 29, 2008)

Say "No thanks. It's not my style ... and I would be very bad at it!"

If you are ever going to really be a pro - and you already ARE! - you must learn to turn down those jobs that do not suit your skills, equipment and interests.  

I know - this is always a touchy subject.  We've all probably had to deal with it more than once. But stand your ground.  What if you DO shoot it?  And what if - your pictures are lousy?

It doesn't matter what people say now.  They'll tell you it's okay;  that they just want you to do a few "snaps."  But, believe me ... in the back of their minds they're thinking lots and lots of extremely high quality pictures - like they see in Modern Bride mag or some-such. and the slick leather bound album, and the full length bridal portrait over the fireplace, and a slide show on CD ... with Music!

And all, of course, for nothing!

I'm sure practically everyone else in the family will have a little camera with them.  Let all of them take the damn pictures!


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## usayit (Apr 29, 2008)

I agree with Sandspur.

I've been in that position a few times.  Just say that shooting a wedding is beyond your skill set and admit that the results would be less than any bride's expectation.  

No matter what they say now.... the bride's expectation is always and I mean always sky high.


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## kellylindseyphotography (Apr 29, 2008)

I totally agree.  My mom thinks it would be a "great wedding present" and that I'll look very selfish declining.  Since I'm the "photographer in the family"..   I'm an amateur, and I shoot children.  Soooo far from being a wedding photographer.  

They again used the "well, just take what you can!  I'm sure it will be great"    I'm considering leaving my camera at home completely and saying I forgot it on accident.


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## JimmyO (Apr 29, 2008)

Well, would you bring your camera anyways? If so all they want are those shots, there probably not expecting magic.


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## Sarah23 (Apr 29, 2008)

haha...yeah I would leave the camera at home, tell them you arent a wedding photographer, and leave it at that. I know its hard when it comes to family. My sister things that I am just going to take pictures of her kids for the rest of their childhood for free. I told her right NOW I am not charging because I need practice, and in the future I will be charging (granted I would give her a discount since she IS my sister) but I dont think she got it. 

She also took one of my pictures off my blog, and used it on HER blog without asking. She told me later, and she did say that I took it and linked my blog to the article (which I guess was OK) but I dont want her to just think she can take whatever pictures she wants off my website and blog!!! 

OK...sorry...got off subject there. Family issues are just touchy.


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## im_trying11 (Apr 29, 2008)

you  should take the shots but tell them they are not goin to be what they expect


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## kellylindseyphotography (Apr 29, 2008)

I was going to shoot some, considering I will get better shots than the few p&s's that will be there.. but I just don't want them to have those super high expectations that I am the "official" wedding photographer.  

I told my mom this in an email:
"Please don't say I will be their wedding photographer, it is not a job I am equipped to handle.  I will do the best I have with the resources I have but I do not have the skill to do wedding photography."

I feel bad.. I don't want them to think I'm being stingy or anything.  Just that I'm not qualified.


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## Phranquey (Apr 29, 2008)

> Well, would you bring your camera anyways?


 
Of course, the camera never leaves the side. 

I know first hand what it is like to be placed in this position, and it just plain sucks, but family is family, and that fact is difficult to get around. If you had a brother who was a plumber, who would be the first one you called if you had a leaky problem at 8:30 on a Friday night?? You are the particular talent in the family at someone else's last minute.
If they had hired a photographer, I can almost guarantee that you would have been there with the camera, probably doing candids anyway...right? 

Instead of looking at it with dread, talk to the bride & groom, make sure they know that these are not going to be $5000 shots, and then get your chin up in the air and challenge yourself. From looking at some of your work, (which I really like, BTW), I think you may be surprised at what you will come up with. It seems like you have a good eye and imagination.  There are more than a few wedding photographers who developed a "candid" style to wedding photography as opposed to the crusty formal shots.


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## RKW3 (Apr 29, 2008)

Phranquey is right.

Just talk to them about it, but take some pics anyways. They will be grateful.


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## djrichie28 (Apr 29, 2008)

There has been some really good replies here in this thread.  I totally understand your situation.  A few years ago I used to DJ in a nightclub, and on a college radio station and someone asked me to DJ a wedding for them.  I have never done a show like that before and would have been a complete contrast from what I was normally spinning.  I accepted the challenge and advised the bride and groom that I may not perform as well as they think I might.  

You may just surprise yourself.  I did.  And since then I have added Weddings and other mobile shows to my services.  

I consider myself an amature photographer and if I was asked to photograph a Wedding, I just might.  I would make sure the couple knew of my status as a photographer up front.  

Even if you decide not to shoot the Wedding, you are in no way being selfish, if anything, you are considering their memories.  But maybe don't be so quick to underestimate yourself.


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## JerryPH (Apr 29, 2008)

Ask them how important an event do THEY feel it is for the bride and groom. Ask them why don't they get a professional worthy of their special day. 

If they say it is not that important for them, that they just want a couple pictures, then just say that its a good thing that more than probably will already many other people there with cameras that would be happy to offer what they are looking for.

I just did something quite similar for this coming weekend. A cousin in Ontario that is getting married and knows that I've ghosted 3 weddings so far.

"Becuase I have ghosted, I *know* what you deserve, and what I could offer... and there is a gap in quality missing there that you really deserve and that only a good experienced photographer will give you. Don't short change one of the most important days of your life becuase you want to save some money on a photographer."

... thats pretty much a quote.


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## deudeu (Apr 29, 2008)

Ask them for enough cash to buy the equipment you need to do the job right. 

That should get them off your shoulders.


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## JerryPH (Apr 29, 2008)

deudeu said:


> Ask them for enough cash to buy the equipment you need to do the job right.
> 
> That should get them off your shoulders.


 
Then you look like a jerk to family and friends.  Honesty would serve better, IMHO.


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## JIP (Apr 29, 2008)

kellylindseyphotography said:


> I totally agree. My mom thinks it would be a "great wedding present" and that I'll look very selfish declining. Since I'm the "photographer in the family".. I'm an amateur, and I shoot children. Soooo far from being a wedding photographer.
> .


 
Yeah I guess a thousand dollars or so worth of work would be a "nice wedding present"



> There has been some really good replies here in this thread. I totally understand your situation. A few years ago I used to DJ in a nightclub, and on a college radio station and someone asked me to DJ a wedding for them. I have never done a show like that before and would have been a complete contrast from what I was normally spinning. I accepted the challenge and advised the bride and groom that I may not perform as well as they think I might.


 
There is a hell of a big difference beteween going from a club DJ to a wedding DJ an going from a kid shooter to a wedding photographer.  I think the job has been covered soo many times here that I wlll not get into it but there is alot more involved with shooting a wedding and there is alot bigger learning curve.


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## *Mike* (Apr 29, 2008)

Shooting weddings for family is a dangerous game.  I'd politely decline.  Explain that you were planning on enjoying the wedding and the reception, and that you can't if you're behind a camera.  

Learn how to say "no," without being adversarial.  It'll help you a lot in your business...

Personally, we don't shoot family weddings.  At times we have - and we've been reminded why we don't.


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## deudeu (Apr 29, 2008)

JerryPH said:


> Then you look like a jerk to family and friends. Honesty would serve better, IMHO.


 

Or it would them realize that it makes more equipement and skill than you have. 

I like how you and I always disagree Jerry, but you will probably agree with me on this one. If there is one group of people that knows me in this world, it is my family, and because of this I am really not worried about wether or not i sound like  jerk when i am around them!


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## KristinaS (Apr 29, 2008)

Here's an idea you might suggest to them. It's something I did even though I did hire a professional photographer.

Suggest to them to put note cards on all of the reception tables asking anyone taking pictures to send them copies if they can. In addition to getting some of the traditional shots I got a lot of candids that I wouldn't have gotten otherwise. Instead of being their wedding photographer you can contribute your pictures this way if you plan on taking your camera.


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## Aggressor (Apr 29, 2008)

You certainly have the skill, but perhaps not the experience you like, but from a business/professional development point of view, this could be a good thing.

Your cheap/free wedding could yield you a lot more follow on (paid) work.  After all, many wedding attendees are also parents...  Parents with children who now know a photographer who specializes in child photography!

On the other hand, if you really don't want the pressure of being the "official photographer," you could try a line that someone suggested from another thread: "Would you like me to shoot the wedding as a friend (cousin) or as a professional?"  That way you could clarify their request and manage their expectations.


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## kellylindseyphotography (Apr 29, 2008)

JerryPH said:


> Ask them how important an event do THEY feel it is for the bride and groom. *Ask them why don't they get a professional worthy of their special day.*



Its always the question when people don't hire prof. wedding photog for their wedding.  I know why my cousin isn't, as this is like a shotgun wedding with mostly just my family and doing pot luck with a JOP.  I know she's young and has no money.. the wedding is probably not the best idea, but its her life.

However, my BFF is getting married in October and they are going the whole 8 yards.  I say 8 because they are missing going that last yard by refusing to hire a prof wedding photographer.  They are putting dispoable (YES disposable) cameras on each of the reception tables and having people do it that way.  Luckily, I'm in the bridal party so they can't ask me to do pictures for htme :lmao:


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## kellylindseyphotography (Apr 29, 2008)

kellylindseyphotography said:


> I was going to shoot some, considering I will get better shots than the few p&s's that will be there.. but I just don't want them to have those super high expectations that I am the "official" wedding photographer.
> 
> I told my mom this in an email:
> "Please don't say I will be their wedding photographer, it is not a job I am equipped to handle.  I will do the best I have with the resources I have but I do not have the skill to do wedding photography."
> ...



WOW!!!!!!!!!!!  My mom just emailed me back, I wrote to her what I quoted above, word for word.  This is what she had to say:
screw you asshole


Nice!!!!!


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## robitussin217 (Apr 29, 2008)

I agree with phranquey, rkw3, aggressor, and djrichie. Find time to talk about it and explain the difficulties; that unless they pay for you to get the right equipment, the shots won't be close to professional. And, then just try your best. I think you have a good opportunity to get some experience. And, here's the cliche; it IS family. You might even try to get them in the same setting you take those good kid shots and take a shot they can hang over their mantle.


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## KOrmechea (Apr 29, 2008)

Some one I work with did the disposable thing.  They got a _ton _of pictures and were pleased.  I think it's a decent alternative.

I thought about doing my brother's wedding just for some experience (and because I'm sure a photographer isn't in the budget).  Then I looked at how much work's involved.   

Good thing I didn't mention anything to him...

Good luck with whatever happens.

EDIT:


kellylindseyphotography said:


> My mom just emailed me back... This is what she had to say:
> screw you asshole



Wow, that's pretty lame.  Really lame, actually. 

It may be hopeless, but try describing to her what all is involved in shooting a wedding (equipment, post work, etc.).  That should explain most of the cost of a decent wedding photographer (and why you don't feel you're qualified).   Also, maybe you could recommend the disposable camera thing to her too. 

Sorry she's not being as reasonable as you are.


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## Sarah23 (Apr 29, 2008)

kellylindseyphotography said:


> WOW!!!!!!!!!!!  My mom just emailed me back, I wrote to her what I quoted above, word for word.  This is what she had to say:
> screw you asshole
> 
> 
> Nice!!!!!



WHAT?!?!?!?! Your MOTHER said that to you??? What the crap?? You are just being truthful! Its not like you can pull hundreds of dollars of equipement and experience out your @$$?????


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## MarcusM (Apr 29, 2008)

kellylindseyphotography said:


> WOW!!!!!!!!!!!  My mom just emailed me back, I wrote to her what I quoted above, word for word.  This is what she had to say:
> screw you asshole
> 
> 
> Nice!!!!!



Wow! What's up with that?

Doesn't sound like a Mom-type thing to say to her daughter.


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## usayit (Apr 29, 2008)

Wonderful example of parenting...

The last time I heard something similar was from an overhyped pushy parent at a high school sports event....


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## kellylindseyphotography (Apr 29, 2008)

ya.  my mom is something else.  i dunno whats wrong with her lately.. our relationship never used to be like this.


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## Parkerman (Apr 29, 2008)

I was told once, Don't do anything for free... Always charge something. Or else you will get abused because... "oh hey.. so and so will do it for free" 

Its your cousin, If it was a brother or sister... Doing a free job wouldn't be so bad. Unless you happen to be tight with this cousin. 

I would just tell them straight up that the pictures will not turn out as good as you want. Or... "Well crap, thats the day that im having my SLR professionally cleaned"


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## RKW3 (Apr 29, 2008)

klp, if your mom really said that (u sure its not a hacker or someone who got on your mom's cpu?) than I revoke my previous comment, you definitely shouldn't do it. You shouldn't be treated like dirt for doing work for free...


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## Sarah23 (Apr 29, 2008)

RKW3 said:


> klp, if your mom really said that (u sure its not a hacker or someone who got on your mom's cpu?) than I revoke my previous comment, you definitely shouldn't do it. You shouldn't be treated like dirt for doing work for free...




:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## daluke09 (Apr 30, 2008)

Is there an open bar at the reception? 

You could always drink too much and then blame it on the alcohol. Then you just have to tell everyone that the booze was shooting the pictures, not you.


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## SBlanca (Apr 30, 2008)

i would warn them that you've never done it before, you dont have the apropiate equipment and you don't have the money to buy that equipment you need. warn them that the final product is not going to be as good as a professional photographer because of all this. just take your camera and try and take the best pics you can, for gods sake, they're your family....dont be silly, if they've asked you to do it its because they think you could produce something good.

as for the person complaining about their sister....don't be silly, don't make your sister pay! shes your sister! i dunno if it's just because of where i live and the fact that EVERYONE is very close...but i wouldn't make my mum/cousin/sister/best friend pay..i would make my cousins friend pay or my sisters friend but thats normal.


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## kellylindseyphotography (Apr 30, 2008)

No it was def her.. there was more to the message, but that was the last line.

I don't mind helping out my family shooting.. Its just that I know they will have super high expectations and expect 'bridal magazine' quality (what bride doesn't?)  I dunno.  Maybe some of you are right.  Maybe I should go and just try my best while being upfront about not having the experience/equiptment etc.


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## JerryPH (Apr 30, 2008)

deudeu said:


> Or it would them realize that it makes more equipement and skill than you have.
> 
> I like how you and I always disagree Jerry, but you will probably agree with me on this one. If there is one group of people that knows me in this world, it is my family, and because of this I am really not worried about wether or not i sound like jerk when i am around them!


 


It's not that I am disagreeing with you constantly, its just that I feel strongly that in this case, its not the right way to handle it.

Asking them to buy me thousands of dollars of equipment or I don't shoot does make me look bad in the eyes of my family.  Not good.

I still can refuse in a polite and diplomatic manner without looking like I did not want to bring my camera because I did not get thousands of dollars out of my family.

In my case, I am still invited to the wedding, still on good terms with my cousin and his soon to be wife and I still can bring my camera and take pics and I plan to share the pics with them, of course)... but there will be a professional there that is going to capture the day for them in a manner that they deserve.

Everyone wins!


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## Lacey Anne (Apr 30, 2008)

Wow. Just wow. After that response, I'm not sure I'd even go to the wedding.


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## kellylindseyphotography (Apr 30, 2008)

Lacey Anne said:


> Wow. Just wow. After that response, I'm not sure I'd even go to the wedding.



After a few more back and forth emails, it is determined that I'm the most selfish individual on the planet.  I just wrote back to have fun, I'm not going and good luck with her point and shoot.


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## Early (Apr 30, 2008)

Oh, go and take some shots!  It ain't gonna kill ya, and ya might actually have some fun.


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## Sarah23 (Apr 30, 2008)

kellylindseyphotography said:


> After a few more back and forth emails, it is determined that I'm the most selfish individual on the planet.  I just wrote back to have fun, I'm not going and good luck with her point and shoot.



hmm...that sucks that shes being like that. How are you being selfish???


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## Parkerman (Apr 30, 2008)

kellylindseyphotography said:


> After a few more back and forth emails, it is determined that I'm the most selfish individual on the planet.  I just wrote back to have fun, I'm not going and good luck with her point and shoot.





Hah, Nice.


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## BoblyBill (Apr 30, 2008)

Just go out and take some really terrible pictures and show them to the family... J/K...
Well just from looking at your website I'd say you would do a great job, but I totally understand how its is to shoot weddings. I've done one and hated it.


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## ryan7783 (Apr 30, 2008)

Good for you. Stand up for yourself - you don't have to take that crap. Let this be a lesson to your mother that just because you're her daughter doesn't mean she can treat you like this, trying to throw a guilt trip on you, and then expecting you to change your mind and suddenly become a professional photographer who will shoot a wedding for free. 

If you do decide to go, I wouldn't take the camera because any pictures you do take will just remind everyone involved of how sh**ty this whole experience was.


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## kellylindseyphotography (Apr 30, 2008)

Sarah23 said:


> hmm...that sucks that shes being like that. How are you being selfish???



Thats what I'm so confused about!!  I said I would go and take her pictures for her but to please not tell them I will be their "official wedding photographer".. thats all I asked.  Its not that I don't want to go or shoot some pics for her, I just don't need the label or the responisibility that comes with that label.  I have done one wedding before, hated it, and detest the bridezillas.  Not that my cousin is or isn't one.. I don't know.  And I don't want to know.. lol.

I just don't want my cousin to have this expectation of not having to hire a pro wedding photog.  I think every wedding should have one.  I guess that just my personal opinion... I duno.  I don't like being called a selfish asshole, thats for sure.

And since thats my mothers opinion, I shouldn't hold it against my cousin.  GAH!!!!!


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## kundalini (Apr 30, 2008)

I'd go to the wedding with camera in hand (as it would be that way regardless) and take the best photos I could.  Enjoy the day and not put pressure on myself.  I would then PP the best I could and provide the B&G with low res JPEGS with watermarks on CD.  

If they wanted prints, then they would have to cover the cost, but I would still do it basically free for family.  That's just me.

In the back of my mind I would hope this will lead to paying opportunities.  

I also believe in karma.


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## kellylindseyphotography (Apr 30, 2008)

kundalini said:


> I'd go to the wedding with camera in hand (as it would be that way regardless) and take the best photos I could.  Enjoy the day and not put pressure on myself.  I would then PP the best I could and provide the B&G with low res JPEGS with watermarks on CD.
> 
> If they wanted prints, then they would have to cover the cost, but I would still do it basically free for family.  That's just me.
> 
> ...



That is EXACTLY what I said I would do.  I just don't want to be "the official wedding photographer".  I said I would do the best with what I have, but I'm NOT A PROFESSIONAL.  I recommended to my mom to tell her to hire a professional.  I said, I would shoot what I could and do what I could for her, but that I feel very uncomfortable with being the "official wedding photographer".. kwim??  I said I would put up the shots on my website and she could purchase them for no profit from me, but that I couldn't put that on my dime.

I was then called selfish and she refuses to email with me anymore.


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## kundalini (Apr 30, 2008)

Perhaps let the dust settle with your Mom and discuss this directly with you cousin.  

Take Mom out of the equation for the moment.  Sounds like anxiety is creeping in and the tension with Mom wil only increase if calm is not brought back.  

Family...... what can you do?


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## kellylindseyphotography (Apr 30, 2008)

kundalini said:


> Family...... what can you do?




I think there are laws against killing them :lmao:


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## Mystwalker (Apr 30, 2008)

If they are not going to hire a photographer, it is better to have someone "with a camera" (regardless of ability) then noone at all.

As long as they do not expect pro quality.

I always tell friends/family to "not count on me for quality shots".  I will be there with camera and will stay out of way, but you roll the dice if you want "pro quality" - probably more like buying Lotto ticket


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## asfixiate (Apr 30, 2008)

Here's a different angle to responding for you.

What equipment do you have and what is the lighting situation going to be like there?

I've been to weddings where disposable cameras were at every table and those were the pictures used. 

I've been to weddigns where the photographer cost the couple 3500..

Like everyone says. What are their expectations?

What I'm saying...What can you do?

See what's out there as far as wedding photos are concerned and ask yourself...Could I do that?

Ever hear of believing in yourself?


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## JimmyO (Apr 30, 2008)

Also, why arent you talking directly to your cousin?


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## asfixiate (Apr 30, 2008)

JimmyO
That is the 10.00 question so far.


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## kellylindseyphotography (Apr 30, 2008)

I'm not close with my cousin.  The wedding is 3.5 hours from my house, in a church that I have no knowledge of.  No knowledge of the lighting, the etiquette, how it will be set up.. nothing.  My mom and grandfatehr think this will be such a great "present" to my cousin, so this is just sprung on me literally days before this wedding.

The wedding is Sunday.  

The only communication I have wiht my cousin is via myspace, we talklk maybe 2 times a year.  

You can see how this is coming out of the blue at me with this new expectation.

My cousin announced she was getting married at the beginning on April and I think she thought she was just going to have something with her, the groom and a few friends.  Well word travelled around my family pretty quick and then they all scrambled to try to make it nice for her.

I think it was one of these last minute things like "hey, dawn maria doesn't have a wedding photog.  lets see if we can get kelly to do it"  1 week before this wedding.  

My mother sent me a text message saying I sickened her with my "greed" and wanting to charge her, so I think she totally misunderstood what I said when I said I would shoot, but she would have to purchase the prints for herself.  I mean, what the hell else can I do? I am a single mom, taking the only day off that I work during the week to drive 4 hours to a wedding for a person I'd hardly say I'm close to.

I'm going to eat the cost of gas, a little suit for my 2 year old, lose a paycheck, pay tolls, buy a dress, spend my time shooting her wedding, process the pictures and upload them to my site (all during finals week no less!) and all I asked is that she pay for the prints.  I don't see how I"m so far feckin off here.


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## asfixiate (Apr 30, 2008)

Are you interested in eventually expanding to weddings? See if she will cover your expenses at least.


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## kellylindseyphotography (Apr 30, 2008)

Nope not interested in weddings in the least.

I don't mind taking the day off.  I don't mind buying a dress.  I don't mind paying for gas for the 4 hour trip.  I don't mind making my son miss his weekend with his father.  I don't mind  taking some shots for her.  I *want* to do all these things, as she's my cousin, its my family and she's getting married!   Its great for her.

What I *do* mind is being called a selfish asshole because I won't pay for prints.


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## asfixiate (Apr 30, 2008)

Woah!

Before I moved 5 years ago I ran a part time consulting business. I was volunteered to help family a little more than I would have liked. My mom telling everyone I had a business turned into everyone in the family using me instead of Geek Squad, etc. I NEVER once paid out of my pocket for parts, supplies, software, etc. The only thing I did for free was the actual help. In your case the actual shot taking.

They're out of their mind if they expect you to pay for prints. Make a cd and give them a cd. That's easy solution.

You lose the cost of the cd but not what could turn into over 100 bucks worth of prints.

Ritz camera makes decent albums its like 30 bucks for 30 pictures.  I'm sure you'll take at least 30 keepers.


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## *Mike* (Apr 30, 2008)

asfixiate said:


> Ever hear of believing in yourself?



I don't think this is the issue...  The situation is taking a professional relationship and crossing it with family relationship.  That's rarely a good idea.  Add in all the emotional weight of a wedding, and even the best personal relationship can be strained.  

Of course, the fact that the OP doesn't enjoy shooting weddings, doesn't feel equipped to be shooting weddings, and/or doesn't feel fully capable of shooting a wedding should also be respected.  Right now the industry is saturated with people that have an utterly false sense of confidence...  When someone honestly appraises their abilities, offers to help, and simply wants to set the right expectations ahead of time, well, will that should be lauded and respected.


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## kundalini (Apr 30, 2008)

Kelly,

Can you give us TPF's a *safe* word that you will use before one of us really starts to pi$$ you off?  I don't to be in your line of fire.  :lmao:


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## asfixiate (Apr 30, 2008)

Mike
I agree with basically what everyone is saying as well as what you are saying. I was just approaching the response from a different angle since it appeared a decision wasn't made yet.

If the expectations are similar to the expectations of the wedding shot with disposable cameras than she' produce better results in my opinion. 

Looking at her site I felt she can produce some very artistic as well as candid shots.  There is ability there.

"Can you give us TPF's a *safe* word that you will use before one of us really starts to pi$$ you off? I don't to be in your line of fire. :lmao:"

LMAO!!


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## elsaspet (Apr 30, 2008)

kellylindseyphotography said:


> WOW!!!!!!!!!!! My mom just emailed me back, I wrote to her what I quoted above, word for word. This is what she had to say:
> screw you asshole
> 
> 
> Nice!!!!!


 
Oh.   My.  God.

Stay home.  It's not that I think you can't do it, but you are seeing only the beginning of what "free family photography" amounts to.  If you like your family, don't attend the wedding at all.


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## elsaspet (Apr 30, 2008)

And BTW, kuddos to you to not cave in to do something you don't like and don't feel ready to do.  I wish a tenth of people had your good sense.


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## asfixiate (Apr 30, 2008)

Apparantly I didn't catch the screw you part. All I can say is that's crazy and I wouldn't do it even if I had every bit of equipment at my fingertips. That attitude is totally unacceptable. Single mothers have it tough enough as it is yet alone working for free. 

I agree 100% that you shouldn't do anything you dont' want to do especially if you'r treated that way. 

I agree with elsaspet 100%

Also sorry I didn't read the thread all the way before I "opened my mouth".  Those would be my recommendation if the person had a good attitude and you were slightly interested in weddings.


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## kellylindseyphotography (Apr 30, 2008)

the safe word is...









*cookies*





lmao


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## asfixiate (Apr 30, 2008)

little sidebar for ya.  I love your portraits.  They are very wholesome...did i spell whoesome right?


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## kellylindseyphotography (Apr 30, 2008)

asfixiate said:


> little sidebar for ya.  I love your portraits.  They are very wholesome...did i spell whoesome right?



Thats an adjetive I haven't heard to describe my shots hehe, thanks   Brownie points for you :hugs:


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## asfixiate (Apr 30, 2008)

I don't have kids but am getting married in October and hope to have kids not to long from that. When i look at your shots I feel like they're my kids.  Not sure how else to describe it.


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## Ben-71 (Apr 30, 2008)

kellylindseyphotography said:


> << my cousin is getting married. my whole family thinks i'm a built in photographer.... .... WHy do people think that just becasue you have a camera and like photography that you want to shoot their wedding for them for free? >>





kellylindseyphotography said:


> Hi...
> 'If you can't beat them, join them'...
> Let's try and look at it from a different angle...
> 
> ...


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## Mav (Apr 30, 2008)

elsaspet said:


> Oh.   My.  God.
> 
> Stay home.  It's not that I think you can't do it, but you are seeing only the beginning of what "free family photography" amounts to.  If you like your family, don't attend the wedding at all.


+1


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## MRivera (Apr 30, 2008)

Wow...lot of different responses here... There is a thin line when comes to family and favors. IMHO I think you should give it a try and do it. someone suggested to give them an album from Ritz camera, that could be a good present. The rest yo could give them a CD so they print out other images they might like.
Most importantly be upfront with them and let them know it is the first time you are photographying a wedding who knows maybe you could use one of the images for your site or portfolio. Ask another friend who might be interesting in photography to go with you and help you out... That could be fun.


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## Ben-71 (Apr 30, 2008)

Just read about that mail... so I'd add this:

If I felt abused, and wouldn't be able to enjoy taking the pictures, I wouldn't do it. 
I turned down 2 or 3 true job, offered by people I "too much didn't like".
It boils down to - "Can I addopt a possitive attitude, or not".

*If* the only way I could see it is that I'm forced into it, I wouldn't do it.


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## abraxas (Apr 30, 2008)

Ben-71 said:


> ...
> 
> Let's try and look at it from a different angle...
> 
> ...​




^ All that.​


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## usayit (Apr 30, 2008)

Sorry Mom I don't want to shoot...

<SMACK>

Ok Mom.. I'll guess I'll do it if they help with expenses

<SMACK>

Ok Mom.. I'll do it for free..


Hmmm... doesn't sound like a healthy relationship.  I agree with elsaspet.. Run... you are in a no-win situation.  About the worst no-win situation any son/daughter can possibly be placed in.


Sorry for being blunt.


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## John_Olexa (Apr 30, 2008)

Early said:


> Oh, go and take some shots! It ain't gonna kill ya, and ya might actually have some fun.


 
I agree!
Read up on it and it your best shot. It will be a good learning experience.


I have shot 3 weddings where the couple couldn't afford to pay the going rates (no I don't call myself a wedding photographer, Just helping them out) heck they all turned out pretty good.. plenty good enough that people call me and ask how much I charge. I just used flash with a softbox on it. nothing fancy . This was before I went digital!!Heck now with photoshop you should be able to make just about any shot look good. Give them a CD of the shots and your done.


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## quickshot (Apr 30, 2008)

kellylindseyphotography said:


> I totally agree. My mom thinks it would be a "great wedding present" and that I'll look very selfish declining. Since I'm the "photographer in the family".. I'm an amateur, and I shoot children. Soooo far from being a wedding photographer.
> 
> They again used the "well, just take what you can! I'm sure it will be great"  I'm considering leaving my camera at home completely and saying I forgot it on accident.


 

You're part of the family and you want to be part of the celebration, and that won't be easy if you've got your face behind a camera the whole time. Just tell your cousin that you want to be able to enjoy the wedding and have fun on their special day, instead of treating it as a "job".


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## rubbertree (Apr 30, 2008)

"screw you asshole"
OMG, you are a better person than me for not killing your mother after hearing that!
If it were me, I'd just not go at all. But if you do, and if you take the shots, at the very least upload them to a website where people can pick and order (and pay) for whatever prints they like. Don't even suggest that you will order the prints for them, just say, "if you want to order prints the pictures can be ordered from XYZ site".


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## Joves (Apr 30, 2008)

Im so glad there are like alot of photofreaks in my family. I never get pushed into those types of situations. I do feel your pain though.


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## elsaspet (Apr 30, 2008)

usayit said:


> Sorry Mom I don't want to shoot...
> 
> <SMACK>
> 
> ...


 
Exactly.  She told Mom and cousin she didn't want to do it.  She told them she was not comfortable in that position.
And what she received in return was a total disregard for HER feelings on the matter.
Very few people seem to be getting that part of it.
Just because a person is a good photographer, doesn't mean they should be a built in photo slave, family or no family.
If the couple can't afford a photographer, they should buy disposable cameras and put the guests to work.  But to be totally honest, I bet they just ASSUMED that she would take the photos.  If they can afford to have a wedding, I bet they could cough up a few buck for a craigslist photog.  Assuming it's the OPs DUTY is wrongwrongwrong.


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## kellylindseyphotography (Apr 30, 2008)

elsaspet said:


> Exactly.  She told Mom and cousin she didn't want to do it.  She told them she was not comfortable in that position.
> And what she received in return was a total disregard for HER feelings on the matter.
> Very few people seem to be getting that part of it.
> Just because a person is a good photographer, doesn't mean they should be a built in photo slave, family or no family.
> If the couple can't afford a photographer, they should buy disposable cameras and put the guests to work.  But to be totally honest, I bet they just ASSUMED that she would take the photos.  If they can afford to have a wedding, I bet they could cough up a few buck for a craigslist photog.  Assuming it's the OPs DUTY is wrongwrongwrong.



Thank you.  :hugs:


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## usayit (Apr 30, 2008)

To sum it up..

YOU deserve better treatment...


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## Phranquey (Apr 30, 2008)

> Exactly. She told Mom and cousin she didn't want to do it. She told them she was not comfortable in that position.
> And what she received in return was a total disregard for HER feelings on the matter.
> Very few people seem to be getting that part of it.
> Just because a person is a good photographer, doesn't mean they should be a built in photo slave, family or no family.
> If the couple can't afford a photographer, they should buy disposable cameras and put the guests to work. But to be totally honest, I bet they just ASSUMED that she would take the photos. If they can afford to have a wedding, I bet they could cough up a few buck for a craigslist photog. Assuming it's the OPs DUTY is wrongwrongwrong.


 
After reading the "screw you" part, I'm afraid I'm going to have to retract my comment about "put your chin up and take it as a challenge".  No one deserves that kind of treatment, _especially_ from your very own mother.  My mom & I have always had a pretty rocky relationship, but I have never been spoken to that way....I'm really sorry.  I'd have to tell them to have a nice time.


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## JimmyO (Apr 30, 2008)

Geez
So many responses
And so many different ones

Im thinking only your mom feels that way. And while what she says is very powerful, there will be many others there that will enjoy your presence and your pictures. Just go there and try not to affiliate with your mom.


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## Ben-71 (May 2, 2008)

Kelly,

What have you decided?


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## ghpham (May 2, 2008)

I haven't heard your cousin's side of the story.  Did she invite you to the wedding? If so, you are a guest, then you should not even have to bring your camera.  If they expected you to be the photographer and didn't extend an invitation, just stay home.  

I read alot of advice here about just take pictures etc. for family for free but just set expectation.  However, in a family setting, you should be a guest celebrating the day with each other, not "working".  My sister got married last year and though she know I'm a camera buff, she had the decency not to ask me to be the wedding photographer so I can enjoy myself at her wedding.  Any family members and or friends that would ask you to work on that special day, absolutely have no respect for you.


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## elsaspet (May 2, 2008)

Here is the long and short of it.

Suppose you are a house framer....

Cousin calls and says he can't afford to get a new garage put on his house.

Mom says, oh yes, I'll get my kid to do it, because I'm a big person, and now you owe me.

Kid says (framer for those not keeping up) says, wow, that's going to take me a lot of hours to do properly, and I don't even LIKE building garages.

Now here in effect is what some of you are saying:

"Go build the garage, and don't worry about the money. It's fun!"

"You owe it to your family to build the garage for a cousin you don't really know"

"Don't embarrase your Mom already. Go an do any job she puts you up for. Don't forget the Quincenterra next week that she promised the second grade Teacher's cousin. After all, it could be fun, and you might get a PAYING job out of it.

Really folks, go build someone a garage, using your tools, and your time, and then tell the poster WHO DOESN'T WANT TO DO IT, that it's all in good fun.

If YOU did it, you would be a fool.

If YOU did it because someone told you to, you would be a triple fool.

If YOU did it to "make something out of it in the future", you are putting ZERO value on what you do, and you will probably never make a dime.

If YOU did it for family obligations, be aware that you will be whored out to every family Christmas shoot, third cousin's older daughters senior shoot, and daddy's babie's preggy shoot.  For nada.  Do it once, and you will indeed become the photo slave of the family.  And family's go on ENDLESSLY with requests.

I am most definately a pro.  I have family too.  BECAUSE I'VE BEEN SUBJECTED TO THIS TREATMENT I no longer bring my camera.  To anything.

One year I was invited to my brother's Christmas party.  What can I bring?  (Thinking a bottle of wine).  Oh, just bring your camera.  That night I worked like I was at a Wedding....with, "Oh, come here and take a photo of me and my seventh cousin removed!".  And of course that was supposed to be processed and discs sent to everyone even remotely related to the family.

Do what you want, but I'm telling you from experience not to.


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## Lacey Anne (May 2, 2008)

ghpham said:


> I haven't heard your cousin's side of the story. Did she invite you to the wedding? If so, you are a guest, then you should not even have to bring your camera. If they expected you to be the photographer and didn't extend an invitation, just stay home.
> 
> I read alot of advice here about just take pictures etc. for family for free but just set expectation. However, in a family setting, you should be a guest celebrating the day with each other, not "working". My sister got married last year and though she know I'm a camera buff, she had the decency not to ask me to be the wedding photographer so I can enjoy myself at her wedding. Any family members and or friends that would ask you to work on that special day, absolutely have no respect for you.


Exactly! My sister has me doing her engagement session and a trash the dress session but told me up front she wasn't going to ask me to shoot the wedding because she wants me to be able to enjoy it as her sister.:mrgreen:


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## kellylindseyphotography (May 2, 2008)

Exactly my sentiments Elsaspet.  

As for what I'm going to do, I just don't even know yet.  I'm facing similar issues w/my moms group wanting free work from me.  I have to figure out a way to politely stand my ground.


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## DWS (May 2, 2008)

kellylindseyphotography said:


> Exactly my sentiments Elsaspet.
> I have to figure out a way to politely stand my ground.


simply say you do not want to start a never ending cycle of photography "donations".....and it will be never ending if you start it


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## Ben-71 (May 2, 2008)

kellylindseyphotography said:


> Exactly my sentiments Elsaspet.
> 
> As for what I'm going to do, I just don't even know yet.  I'm facing similar issues w/my moms group wanting free work from me.  I have to figure out a way to politely stand my ground.



After that mail and that attitude, I'd have said - 
"I'm not dancing to your music anymore. If I decide to take pics' at the wedding, it would be in spite of you, and not because of you. Period."

I wouldn't answer attempts to drag me into more arguments.

After that mail, which I presume contained more "Jewels", this would be more than polite enough.

Time to unchain yourself. 

As for the wedding... It's between you and your cousin, and not between you and your mother.


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## Ben-71 (May 2, 2008)

kelly,

This is not about this wedding.
This is about the kind of relationship you have with your mother, right?

There are "weddings" all the time, right?

For yourself, find a way to learn to cope with that relationship, to unchain yourself. 
Yes, it's hard to do. But, when you do, you'll feel much better. 

Try to get strength from the emphatic and supportive people here.

I said it, but I don't feel that it belongs in this kind of forum.


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## bahandi (May 2, 2008)

i apologize for responding to this as my first post on this forum.

i suppose it would be hard to follow through with what i'm about to suggest. heck, even i probably wouldn't do what i'm about to say. here it is....

if anyone, especially my mom, told me to do something like what she's asked you to do, i would bring her along to a shoot (probably with a camera), have her take as much pictures as i do, have her sit down in front of the computer, get her to choose the best ones, and then walk her through the steps of post processing.

afterwards, show her what it would cost to print the pics, or show her how to copy the pictures to a CD/DVD. then tell her no... lol.


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## JerryPH (May 2, 2008)

kellylindseyphotography said:


> WOW!!!!!!!!!!! My mom just emailed me back, I wrote to her what I quoted above, word for word. This is what she had to say:
> screw you asshole
> 
> 
> Nice!!!!!


 
I would print it out and show it to her. Ask her if this was really her. If she says it was, tell her that you wanted to thank-her personally. You were going to try to do your best even though you did not feel qualified, but you did not have a reason to refuse... until this moment.

Tell her in no uncertain terms that you will not only not be taking any pictures, you will be attending the wedding without so much as a pad and pencil to hand draw scenes with... lol.

Enjoy yourself at the wedding, find a far seat away from your mom to sit at, if she is there, and if you are still invited.

At this point, I think its time you seriously considered talking to the people that matter, the bride and groom and explain things very clearly.


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## peterbj7 (May 2, 2008)

I'm going to a big family wedding in a few months' time and I shall certainly take my camera, but there's no way I'd agree to be the official photographer.  I don't like taking posed shots - I prefer wandering around with something like a 135mm lens (on a FF) or a zoom covering that, and taking pictures when people don't know I'm taking them.  I have to make a nuisance of myself first so that eventually people ignore me, so it's fairly anti-social, but then I can get some amazing shots.  When my niece was married a couple of years ago I did that, and the whole family preferred my pictures to the official ones.  You need the official ones to record the event, but there's much more fun looking at informal shots.


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## JerryPH (May 2, 2008)

A pro doesn't make a nuisance of themselves, and still manage to get some amazing candid shots... if not, they need to learn how, if they want to stay in the field.

There are 5 very general aspects to any wedding:

- The pre-ceremony
- The ceremony formals
- The location shoot formals
- The reception formals
- The candids at any given location

A pro should know how to do it pretty much all and in the process remain a pro.


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## The_Traveler (May 3, 2008)

It seems clear that your mom - and everyone else in the wedding - for that matter doesn't hear what you are saying and doesn't want to. 

If the shots come out poorly, no one will remember that you said you didn't have the skills/equipment.

If the shots are good, you've just become the designated no cost photographer for the family.

Forget this as practice stuff, practice on someone who values your efforts and appreciates your contribution.
No one in the wedding group seems to appreciate what you will have to do. 

In your situation, I would skip the entire thing.


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## JerryPH (May 3, 2008)

kellylindseyphotography said:


> Exactly my sentiments Elsaspet.
> 
> As for what I'm going to do, I just don't even know yet. I'm facing similar issues w/my moms group wanting free work from me. I have to figure out a way to politely stand my ground.


 
Seems like your mom wants to rule your professional carreer. You need to set some things straight with her and her "screw you a$$h*le" attitude.

At this point, I would simply decline to even go to the event, thats the best and fastest way to handle this situation. Then go talk to your mom's group face to face and set the rules concerning you and your PROFESSIONAL carreer.

Rule #1... no freebies to anyone, especially family unless YOU YOURSELF AND NO ONE ELSE decide to do so.
Rule #2... refer to rule #1.

Time to get strong and take a firm stance.  Firm, but polite and low key.  Do not bend.


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## kellylindseyphotography (May 3, 2008)

Well as teh day drawss closer I am still undecided.  My mom is my ride up there.  I have my own car but gas, tolls etc will financially kill me as I just payed my rent 2 days ago. 

I messaged my mom and asked her if we were still going to ride with her, if not then I was just not going to go and will go to work instead.  She hasn't messaged me back yet.   The first sign of a ****ty attitude about it, I will just not go and send my cousin a card and wash my hands of the whole thing.  I know my family will be SUPER pissed if we don't go though, so I'm feeling frustrated.    I WANT TO GO.  I just don't want to discuss business with my family or spend my whole day running in my heels after my 2 year old and a bride at the same time.


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## HailttRedskins (May 3, 2008)

WOW, can't believe your mother would say that, though I've heard close to it from mine before too.

As far as I'm concerned, I would bring the camera, but "forget" the battery on the charger at home.

Or you could always take the pictures out of focus.


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## Mike_E (May 3, 2008)

Kelly, Dinner and a movie sound pretty good to me at this point.  What I would do is irrelevant as I have a different family but I can tell you that your family is a group of people that you wouldn't otherwise know.  You are the choices that you make, don't let happenstance rule your life.

mike


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## TamiyaGuy (May 3, 2008)

I would agree with JerryPH unless your mum very quickly changes her attitude towards you and YOUR career/hobby. I get the feeling that you can only lose here:

- If you bring the camera and take good photos, you will become the free professional photographer for not just your family, but everyone your family will tell. That means *much* less income/more loss.

- If you bring the camera and take bad photos, people will be annoyed at you because you were "supposed to be really good", and they will completely forget about you not having enough skill/stuff. (no offence, though, your pics are great )

- If you leave the camera at home, on puropose or "accidentally", your mum will get REALLY b****y about the whole thing, and go on about how you let your cousin down.


So from where I see it, you would be better off just not going. If other people get annoyed that you didn't go, then tell them about the way your mum is treating you down to the letter, and they'll most likely understand. Of course, if your mum says "never mind, you don't HAVE to be the photog for the wedding", then you can just go, leave your camera at home, and enjoy yourself! Although I somewhat doubt that to happen (no offence).

That said, though, I am generally a pretty negative thinker, so you'll have to choose the £1,000,000 answer.

Still, I wish you the very best of luck dealing with this very sensitive matter.


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## Mike_E (May 3, 2008)

"Nikon F301 35mm SLR
-Nikkor 50mm f/1.8 lens
-Sirius 28-200mm f/4 lens

Nikon D40 DSLR
-Nikon 18-55mm f/3.5-f/5.6 lens
-Sigma 55-200mm f/4-5.6 lens

*Yes, I know it's all crap. Don't go on about it."  

*If it's paid for and you like it, it's not crap


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## kellylindseyphotography (May 3, 2008)

I spoke with my mother.. briefly, just for her to tell me that yes, we can ride with her.

I *refuse* to put pressure on myself for this.  I have a 10 page paper, a 5 page pg paper and a take home statistics final thats due on Tuesday.   I will take my camera, but I'm not going to overexert myself in any way shape or fashion.

Thanks for all the help here.  I appreciate you all


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## kellylindseyphotography (May 3, 2008)

*snort*
Its going to POUR tomorrow.  Especially heavy at the time of the ceremony.  I don't own an off camera flash!  I work in only natural light.  Mother nature saves the day for me lol


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## HailttRedskins (May 3, 2008)

Nice =]


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## schumionbike (May 3, 2008)

Hey I'm glad it work out for you!  This is just how I see things, maybe my experiences might have been different from others here so here is my 2 cents.

I would have shot the weddings, I would warned them about the quality of the images and that it wouldn't be professional. But, in my opinion, if you know how to work the camera inside and out, your shots should be way better then any point and shoot on automatic and I think they will realize that. I mean it might not be good enough to charge but you know...  So in short, I wouldn't refuse a free wedding base on experiences and lack of equipment, just tell them before hand.  Well, unless you know that they are about to spend $30,000 on the wedding, then I would help them pick a wedding photographer. lol.

I'm not a pro by any mean but I had this couple that ask me specifically to give them a copy of a picture that I took of their little baby.  The funny thing is I sent it to the husband but he forgot to tell his wife so she asked about it like 2 months later.  I mean the couple know that my pictures aren't great but hey, the kid have a cute smile and they know that it is hard for them or anyone else to repeat with any camera on automatic.  So given the circumstances that you described, I think your cousin just want some above average pictures.
As far as the amount of work that you have to put into the wedding, well, I never consider taking pictures to be work since I have a lot of fun at it.  Perhap that is why you mom think that you're selfish when you did not want to shoot.  

So while I understand where you are coming from, I would have taken the other route under these circumstances.


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## kellylindseyphotography (May 3, 2008)

schumionbike said:


> well, I never consider taking pictures to be work since I have a lot of fun at it.  Perhap that is why you mom think that you're selfish when you did not want to shoot..



Have you tryed having fun shooting with a 2 yr old wrapped around your leg?  One that will have been riding in a car for 4 hours and missed his nap that day too?  When you have done that and done it all for free, tell me how much fun it was


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## schumionbike (May 3, 2008)

kellylindseyphotography said:


> Have you tryed having fun shooting with a 2 yr old wrapped around your leg? One that will have been riding in a car for 4 hours and missed his nap that day too? When you have done that and done it all for free, tell me how much fun it was


 

Nope, never tried that.  I guess you would have to get the kid off your leg then, lol.  But other than than, shooting itself is pretty fun though and I wouldn't consider it work.


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## JerryPH (May 3, 2008)

I have. Taking a pic of that little one wrapped around my leg was not a problem... now walking... THAT was a problem.  

I see that mother nature may have saved you some hassle... lol

Good luck, and since you are going... do nothing that isn't fun for you... screw the rest.


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## kellylindseyphotography (May 3, 2008)

schumionbike said:


> Nope, never tried that.  I guess you would have to get the kid off your leg then, lol.  But other than than, s*hooting itself is pretty fun though and I wouldn't consider it work*.



I agree with the bolded _usually  _In this particular circumstance, no.

And my son won't go to anyone there.  He literally WILL be attached to my leg. And with heels on, its not going to be pretty


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## NoteGraphics (May 4, 2008)

Is it just me... or is everyone else on tenterhooks to see these pictures after all hassle this poor girl has gone through ???!!!???  *fingers tightly crossed!*


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## KD5NRH (May 4, 2008)

kellylindseyphotography said:


> I have to figure out a way to politely stand my ground.



You already did that, and they've decided the time for politeness is over.  Put your foot down.


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## JerryPH (May 4, 2008)

schumionbike said:


> shooting itself is pretty fun though and I wouldn't consider it work.


Shooting pics is a ton of fun, and shooting weddings is a rush, but let me tell you.. to do a wedding properly, it *IS* work... hard work.


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## schumionbike (May 4, 2008)

JerryPH said:


> Shooting pics is a ton of fun, and shooting weddings is a rush, but let me tell you.. to do a wedding properly, it *IS* work... hard work.


 
I understand that shooting a wedding required that you're technically proficient with excellent equipments.  Such preparation might take a lot of work and a lot of studying and probably require some talent.  But how is carrying a camera around and pressing the shutter hard work??? Especially when you like do that anyway.  I mean you might have to do a little bit more running around and carrying a few pound of gear but that's not really work. This is free wedding anyway, it's either pictures with DSLR on manual with good eyes or point and shoot on automatic so there shouldn't be much pressure. I never shot wedding before however, so it's just my opinion.  I have shot a funeral before though, interestingly enough.


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## Mav (May 4, 2008)

schumionbike said:


> I understand that shooting a wedding required that you're technically proficient with excellent equipments.  Such preparation might take a lot of work and a lot of studying and probably require some talent.  But how is carrying a camera around and pressing the shutter hard work??? Especially when you like do that anyway.  I mean you might have to do a little bit more running around and carrying a few pound of gear but that's not really work. This is free wedding anyway, it's either pictures with DSLR on manual with good eyes or point and shoot on automatic so there shouldn't be much pressure. I never shot wedding before however, so it's just my opinion.  I have shot a funeral before though, interestingly enough.


Go shoot a wedding where you're getting _PAID_ and are expected to get good results and get back to us on that one. :lmao:

- There's making sure your settings are right.
- There's the composition and making sure everybody looks good.
- There's widely varying lighting conditions all over the map to compensate for.
- There's a list of formals to get dozens of lines long.
- There's getting everybody where you need them when you need them there.
- There's the pre-planning.
- There's checking out the site beforehand to get ideas for different shots.
- There's the reviewing of all of the hundreds if not thousands of photos.
- There's the post-processing, which you want to have done ASAP (strike while the iron is hot) from a business standpoint.

My favorite part is this.  The wedding is happening in real-time.  If you find yourself out of position suddenly, they don't just stop for you.  If you want to get the shot, you might find yourself _RUNNING_.   This is why most wedding photogs commonly have a backup along with them because it's just not possible to be everywhere at once.


Shooting a wedding is truly an "experience" if you're doing it seriously and not just casually for a friend


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## TamiyaGuy (May 4, 2008)

Mike_E said:


> "Nikon F301 35mm SLR
> -Nikkor 50mm f/1.8 lens
> -Sirius 28-200mm f/4 lens
> 
> ...


Lol. Yeah, you're right. I guess I'm just too used to the whole Newgrounds.com/4chan.com "OMG UR CAMERA SUXX GET A NEW ONE NOOB" approach :lmao::lmao:


And Kelly, I'm really happy that you won't take any crap. It'd also be interesting to see your "snapshots" of the wedding afterwards as well, just from a curiosity point of view. I'm sure they're great!


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## NoteGraphics (May 4, 2008)

I always vowed "I'll never do weddings"... But I eventually broke my vow ! I will always remember the first though - I was so nervous I kept upping the shutter speed to make sure the shots weren't ruined by my hands shaking.. and i am not joking !

I really feel for you ~Kelly, family can be just awful sometimes and when I started out I was the unofficial "free photographer". It started out with my cousin's 1st childs christening where I was invited to be a godparent. In the exact words of my cousin "You'd be perfect, you go to church AND you got a camera". 

It can be very hard to say "no" sometimes... It can be very hard to listen to views expressed by people through ignorance - such as "it's just pressing a button, how hard can it be?" ( The answer to that by the way is : VERY easy..IF you don't give a damn about the results. If you do take it seriously it's very stressful indeed).

I also agree with the several people who warn of those who say "oh we're sure they'll be fine"... and what they really expect is coverage suitable for Vogue...

But most of all I think that of all the opinions expressed by the many that have followed this thread... The fact that you obviously DO want the best for a family member with whom you have little connection, a mother who seems terribly domineering and inconsiderate of her daughters wishes or fears, and a passion for your photography... says much more about you and your character than theirs.

+ end of my 2c worth, thanks for reading! +


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## schumionbike (May 4, 2008)

Mav said:


> Go shoot a wedding where you're getting _PAID_ and are expected to get good results and get back to us on that one. :lmao:
> 
> - There's making sure your settings are right.
> - There's the composition and making sure everybody looks good.
> ...


 

haha, Mav, I know I need to go shoot wedding to really have a feel for it. I want to too but that's not happening anytime soon.  lol. The OP did say that this is not a paid venture though. But a lot of things you mentioned such as setting, composition, compensating for light, making people look good, post processing, get all the formals together required more skills and talents rather than hard work.  You always watched your setting, lighting, composition anyway (more pressure at wedding though).  That's all I'm trying to say. I mean you mentioned running but if you're talented, maybe you'll run a little less. lol.  This is sort of like getting free advice from a lawyer or doctor in the family.  Giving advise is usually not consider hardwork even though it does take a lot of work in order to give that kind of advice.  I think that's how most people who is not into photography look at it and I think it is reasonable.


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## JerryPH (May 4, 2008)

schumionbike said:


> But how is carrying a camera around and pressing the shutter hard work???


 
I've said it before and will say it again... when I shoot as a second, on the day I work, I lose on average 3-4 pounds. The main photographer (who is 6-foot, 180 pounds, and NO fat), loses about 5-6 pounds himself.

This is not some weddings, its EVERY wedding. His planning lists are several and many have 100 things or more to go through.

Before saying that photography is or cannot be hard work... go shoot a wedding with a professional, as a second shooter, *then* come back and tell me what you think.


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## DWS (May 4, 2008)

JerryPH said:


> Before saying that photography is or cannot be hard work... go shoot a wedding with a professional, as a second shooter, *then* come back and tell me what you think.


absolutely!


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## schumionbike (May 4, 2008)

JerryPH said:


> I've said it before and will say it again... when I shoot as a second, on the day I work, I lose on average 3-4 pounds. The main photographer (who is 6-foot, 180 pounds, and NO fat), loses about 5-6 pounds himself.
> 
> This is not some weddings, its EVERY wedding. His planning lists are several and many have 100 things or more to go through.
> 
> Before saying that photography is or cannot be hard work... go shoot a wedding with a professional, as a second shooter, *then* come back and tell me what you think.


 
haha, fair enough. Hopefully I can give you my impression within 3 years. lol.   I can't argue against the lost of bodyweight.


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## kellylindseyphotography (May 4, 2008)

Well I'm back!!!!

Turns out, the ONLY person that considered me the "official" photographer was my freakin mom.  My cousin had a friend who was a "professional" shooting for her.  Oh man.

Let me tell you.  This girl appeared to have not a professional bone in her body.  It made it VERY hard for me to stand back and watch it!@  Even though I didn't want to do the wedding in the first place, I was twitching to pull my cousin aside and tell her that she wasn't going to get quality pictures at ALL with the photographer that she had.  I didn't because it wouldn't help the situation any.
What I did do was pull her aside and offer to shoot some shots of her outside in THE MOST gorgeous Maine setting you can imagine.  Yes it was drizzling at times, but at times it had stopped completely.  There was this little red barn framed by a backdrop of mountains and fog.. oh man 

My cousin declined saying "Oh I have my friend here, she's a professional, you don't have to worry!"  And I had to bite my tongue.  Hard.

Her friend had a semi decent camera, but she only brought one and it was film.  No equiptment at all, except a built in flash (ugh!!!!!!!!!!).  She shot when she felt like it, missing so many things that I was lucky to capture.  

I only have a rebel XT, and I shoot using only natural light.  I don't claim to have flash experience nor do I try to.  I did shoot at the reception, handholding my camera pushed the ISO to 1600 and did my best while staying out of the way of the "pro"  (who by the way, left her camera on the table and was shooting the whole time in auto.. sigh)

I think I got some decent stuff.  I tryed to encourage my cousin to come outside for some shots because I really wanted to scream that the on camera flash was going to be awful awful awful..  She was so busy with so many other things that she said not to worry, her "pro" would get everything for her 

I asked the pro for her business card so I could check out her shots of the wedding after and she said she didn't have a card, nor a website.  That the professional business she does is by putting all the images on a CD when she's done and giving it to the bride directly   Sure sign that (on top of not carrying off camera flash and shooting in manual) that these pictures are not going to be awesome for my cousin 

And the more I thought of it the more I became pissed.. u know?  I don't know how much my cousin was paying her.  I don't want to know.  I did the best I could in the low lighting with no flash, and occasionally was shooting at 1/15 handheld by keeping my elbow on the table and stabilizing the camera as best I could... of course, I got image movement in a lot of them.. so we'll see.

The good news is is that I did get some decent stuff, I think.  Luckily, much of the guests were receptive to being taken outside to have their portraits done quickly and so I did that.

Overall, lesson learned- my mom and I"s relationship has been going downhill a long long time now.  She said some nasty stuff to me today thats not worth repeating and i refuse to let myself get worked up over it.

Second, I hope that what I did get for my cousin will override what trash she might possibly be presented with.  Or hopefully, she overlooks quality for "oh i love my expression here!" type stuff too.

Anyway.. just thought I'd quickly update.  I'll be uploading in the next few days and you guys can tear apart my wedding skills!


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## kellylindseyphotography (May 4, 2008)

Oh and my mom was pushing me to go into the reception area where the "pro" was doing posed shots.  I refused, saying I didn't have the proper equiptment.. which if that pro was worth her weigh in pennies, would have said the same.  My mom got all pissy at me saying how her built in flash got fine things, didn't I have a flash in my camera?  oy.


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## schumionbike (May 4, 2008)

well, your mother is quite unreasonable. I'm looking forward to see your pictures though.


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## rubbertree (May 4, 2008)

your cousin must be aware of the kind of work the pro friend has produced, otherwise why would she have asked her to shoot the wedding?


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## Ben-71 (May 5, 2008)

KD5NRH said:


> ....Put your foot down.





KD5NRH said:


> The 'baby-free' one...


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## TamiyaGuy (May 5, 2008)

Wow. That must suck, huh? XD Unless you enjoyed watching the "pro" shooting these so-called photographs.

I can't wait to see these photos, from the sounds of things they'll be stunning! I really do admire your bravery shooting indoor photos without a flash. What length lens were you using when handholding at 1/15?

I hope your relationship with your mum gets better soon, and that you can forget about this whole charade. I know I really get worked up if I have a family argument, or even if I just witness one. Stressful things weddings are, for both the guests and the relatives. Why on earth do people have them??? 

~TamiyaGuy


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## jols (May 5, 2008)

just read this whole thread for the first time.

why did you not speak to your cousin when this whole thing started?


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## JimmyO (May 5, 2008)

Geez, after seeing that "pro" it would have really encouraged me to go above and beyond. Im glad to hear it didnt go that bad and i look forward to seeing your shots!


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## Lacey Anne (May 5, 2008)

Wow. Just wow. A pro huh? I'm still attempting to find a wedding photographer to shadow and/or assist before i do a wedding on my own but even I would ahve done better than that! Again, wow.


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## davidfromoz (May 5, 2008)

Great read Kelly.  And I'm very glad to hear that you were not roped into a thankless task that you wouldn't have enjoyed.

But I cant help but think if you had spent less time talking to your mum and TPF and more time talking to your cousin about the whole thing then it might have been less stressful for you and your mum.

cheers,
david


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## kellylindseyphotography (May 5, 2008)

Thanks.  I have answered that question about talking directly to my cousin several times in the thread. but here it is again-

we talk 2 or 3 times a year at most.  usually see each other at thanksgiving etc.  We were close as little ones, but haven't been in nearly 10 years.

I was initially told (not by her) that she was getting this shotgun marriage done with 3 weeks notice.  My family scrambled to put something nice together for her (which it actually very much was!)

I was not notified of her needing photography work at all until... when did I post about this?  Tuesday?  5 days before the date of the wedding?

No chance of me being able to take a 4 hour trip to test lighting measures or anything of the sort.

My mom sprung it on me saying that it would be a "really nice gift", basically in cohorts with my; grandfather.  Why they waited 5 days before the wedding to "demand" this of me is beyond me.

Calling my cousin would have resulted in me finding out she already had her "pro" friend lined up, so really.. what would have been the point?  Even not knowing that fact ahead of time, I am a single mother in the midst of finals.  It was not something I spend hours and hours on TPF discussing.  If you read my responces, they are maybe 1 or 2 a day over the course of week.  I'd hardly define that as spending "too much time talking on TPF about it" but thanks for your concern.

As for why she went with this friend thats a "pro" I haven't the slightest idea.  Maybe with her 4 weeks to get **** together, she did not see her portfolio and just made assumptions about the quality of this friend.  I really don't know.   

When you are not close with someone and they don't know anything at all about photography, you are limited in your capabilities.  I will let my cousin see my work and see her friends work and she can see where she then will feel if she took the right approach or not.  I did the best I could given the situation I was put in and I apoligize for nothing.


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## JimmyO (May 5, 2008)

Again, I really respect how you treated the situation. Im sure it will all be worth it when your cousin throws out the "pros" shots and uses yours.


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## sabbath999 (May 5, 2008)

JIP said:


> There is a hell of a big difference beteween going from a club DJ to a wedding DJ an going from a kid shooter to a wedding photographer. I think the job has been covered soo many times here that I wlll not get into it but there is alot more involved with shooting a wedding and there is alot bigger learning curve.


 
+1 (as a former wedding photographer AND a former mobile DJ system owner)


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## jols (May 5, 2008)

if your not close to her and only talk two or three times a year i dont know what all the fuss was about.


calling your cousin and then finding out she had a pro booked surely would of been a good thing or am i missing something.

cant for the life of me think why you would be worrying over someone you hardly know anymore.


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## kellylindseyphotography (May 5, 2008)

jols said:


> cant for the life of me think why you would be worrying over someone you hardly know anymore.


 
well call me crazy but family is family, regardless of how close we are anymore.  I care for my cousin a great deal and just as a human being, I wanted her to have memories of her wedding that were wonderful.  Whether you agree or disagree with my handling of the situation (you, general) it is what it is.  Again, with 5 days notice I did not anticipate "handling" anything as I said I'm in school on Finals week (haha, I am in school now and just completed my FINAL final! YES!!!!!)  :lmao:  So anyhoo.  I am sure there are some out there who would have handled the situation better/different/perfect.  I'm not perfect, don't claim to be, but I'll take the critisism and hopefully know what to do better next time.


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## kmp1191 (May 5, 2008)

Kelly,
I think you did the right thing. Your mother sounds like a real pistol. She was offering your services when the bride either didn't ask for them, or already had someone lined up.  Mom needs to mind her own business..next time you should tell her that.
I'm sure the work you did was great. You are very creative. I can't wait to see how these turned out....(you are going to show us...aren't you?)
Also, are you going to send her a disc w/ the pictures that you took?

Oh...and your son is adobable!


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## JerryPH (May 5, 2008)

Nothing else need be said but... well done. 

To Sabbath:
[Robin Williams as Lawrence Welk voice]
Play that funky music ah-white boyz!
[/Robin Williams as Lawrence Welk voice]


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## kellylindseyphotography (May 5, 2008)

OK well here's two of the same picture.  I had to use a free trial version of noise reduction software because CS3 does a craptastic job at reducing noise.  So I've never used this kind of software before as I have nearly never shot (actually, I don't think EVER in my life) at 1600.  But here's the same picture twice.. let me know which you prefer or if I should chuck it altogether.  Its sooo soft from a little motion blur, a little image blur and a lot of noise reduction.  I refuse to show anything thats a piece of crap, so please be brutally honest.
Thiss was my cousin dancing with my grandfather for the first dance (her father has passed so my grandfather "gave her away" holy cow, I cryed so hard!)


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## kellylindseyphotography (May 5, 2008)

wow, on the web they look even softer!  yikes.


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## Heck (May 5, 2008)

I think the top one is better for the fact that the dress looks more white.


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## asfixiate (May 5, 2008)

I actually think the softness works on this one. That's my opinion though. Did you try printing any yet?


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## kellylindseyphotography (May 5, 2008)

thanks for your opinions.  can't wait to hear more.  i haven't tryed printing yet.  i'll send one or two to walgreens to get an idea of how really soft they will be.  unfortunetly, nearly all are that soft since she declined to go outside with me.


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## asfixiate (May 5, 2008)

kinda dreamy looking.


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## kellylindseyphotography (May 5, 2008)

a candid right before she went in the church


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## kellylindseyphotography (May 5, 2008)

she's not smiling, but thats really my cousin right there.  you can feel the nervousness here (well i can lol)


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## bahandi (May 5, 2008)

so maybe their expectations weren't so high in the first place... lol... all this drama...


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## kellylindseyphotography (May 5, 2008)

bahandi said:


> so maybe their expectations weren't so high in the first place... lol... all this drama...



thats true!!  i guess i did make the ASSumption that my cousin would be bridezilla.. when she was very far from it :blushing:  Sorry if this was a lot of drama for hte forum, too.


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## kellylindseyphotography (May 5, 2008)

another candid of her and her maid of honor waiting to enter the church (i like all the more artsy ones so those are the ones i've edited first.. pretty sure she wouldn't like these) tell me if the fade is too much here.


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## bahandi (May 5, 2008)

kellylindseyphotography said:


> thats true!!  i guess i did make the ASSumption that my cousin would be bridezilla.. when she was very far from it :blushing:  Sorry if this was a lot of drama for hte forum, too.




Kelly, may i suggest something?

If you are positive that the pics 'the pro' took won't turn out, hold out on giving your cousin the pics that you took until you see the pictures yourself and get their reaction.

Either way, I think you need to prepare for another backlash. If they like the pics, but yours turned out way better, they're not going to like "the pro's" pics and be bitter you didn't take the pics for them.

If they don't like the pics from 'the pro', you can be sure they'll blame you for not 'gifting' them with wedding pictures.

From an amateur photographer (me), great shots so far. Too bad there was so much turmoil involved.

Bahandi

ps. so you weren't able to get your cousin and the groom to yourself at all?


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## kellylindseyphotography (May 5, 2008)

Intersting thoughts Bandahi... I thought of that myself.  And still need to think more about what to do.  Overall, I'd rather have my cousin have some excellent shots (if I have them) than not at all.  And if that means pissing off any family, then fine.  Whats important on the bottom line is that my cousin has pictures that she will treasure for a lifetime, no matter who took them.


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## NoteGraphics (May 5, 2008)

here's my suggestion... Give the photos to your cousin, the bill to your mother... move...don't give your mother the new address !!!!!


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## schumionbike (May 5, 2008)

kellylindseyphotography said:


> Intersting thoughts Bandahi... I thought of that myself. And still need to think more about what to do. Overall, I'd rather have my cousin have some excellent shots (if I have them) than not at all. And if that means pissing off any family, then fine. Whats important on the bottom line is that my cousin has pictures that she will treasure for a lifetime, no matter who took them.


 

I agree!!! I like the composition of these pictures.  It's a little soft but I think it kinda work with the pictures. Either way, good job.


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## kellylindseyphotography (May 5, 2008)

Here's a few more.  Feedback appreciated.









2 of my cousins


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## bahandi (May 5, 2008)

kellylindseyphotography said:


> Intersting thoughts Bandahi... I thought of that myself.  And still need to think more about what to do.  Overall, I'd rather have my cousin have some excellent shots (if I have them) than not at all.  And if that means pissing off any family, then fine.  Whats important on the bottom line is that my cousin has pictures that she will treasure for a lifetime, no matter who took them.



lol.. you butchered my name.

i totally agree. your cousin deserves excellent shots, regardless of who took them.

whatever your decision, i hope your family takes it maturely.


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## TamiyaGuy (May 6, 2008)

Those are some really great shots there! As for the choice one, I like the second pic better. The colours just seem less harsh on your granddad's face, and the photo has a nice warmth to it.

And the others, just wow. It must've been really hard taking photos for family, and you've managed to pull it off darn near perfectly. Great stuff.

Now for the "pro"'s photos. Hold on to your flame shields, everyone!


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## Ben-71 (May 6, 2008)

First one.
I'd remove the white vertical strike at the bottom of his Jacket. I think it disturbs the composition.

Third cent:
You wanted to take the pics' for her.
Give her the ones you choose to give.

The dogs bark, and the caravan goes by...


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## kellylindseyphotography (May 6, 2008)

I appreciate the commments here!  

Bahandi, sorry for butchering your name 

Tamiya, I appreciate that!

Ben,  GOOD EYE man!  Thats my grandfathers cane, I didn't catch that at all.  I'll fix that for sure.
Your third cent is bang on.  I messaged one of my cousins that I AM close to and I'm going to explain all about how I feel with regards to the situation.  That I *may* have better pics than her "pro" friend but don't want Dawn to see them and feel regretful that she didn't trust me to pull her aside on her wedding day to get shots.  Thats my biggest issue.. I want her to have the shots regardless of who took them, but I just don't want my cousin feeling badly one way or another about the whole situation.  How to avoid it...


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## BoblyBill (May 6, 2008)

Kudos to the way you handled it, Kelly. I pray that now you can revive your relationship with your mom.


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## Ben-71 (May 10, 2008)

kellylindseyphotography said:


> <<....I messaged one of my cousins that I AM close to and I'm going to explain all about how I feel with regards to the situation. >>





kellylindseyphotography said:


> Why explain to anyone every consideration you make?
> 
> << ....That I *may* have better pics than her "pro" friend but don't want Dawn to see them and feel regretful that she didn't trust me to pull her aside on her wedding day to get shots. Thats my biggest issue.. I want her to have the shots regardless of who took them, but I just don't want my cousin feeling badly one way or another about the whole situation. How to avoid it... >>​
> Many times, others don't see what you see in the shots.
> ...


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## iriairi (May 11, 2008)

kellylindseyphotography said:


> she's not smiling, but thats really my cousin right there.  you can feel the nervousness here (well i can lol)




I really like the candidness of this shot. My only (unpro) comment on this photo is that I don't look at the bride, I look at the flowers first. I look at the bride second. Didn't know if that was your intent or not.


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## Snap Happy (May 12, 2008)

"I don't shoot people." Hey, for me, that's true. If you're not an inanimate object, get outta my frame.


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