# Manual focus practice?



## crimbfighter (Jun 25, 2010)

Ok, so here's my issue... I am trying to force myself to learn the basics of photography, and manually focusing has been a HUGE frustration for me. For some reason, I always seem to miss the focus, just by a little bit, when compared to the AF. The AF gets it right 98ish percent of the time (the other 2% is usually user error, wrong focus mode, AF point, or just miss it, ect.) But when I take a photo using MF, I always seem to miss it by just that tiny margin, blowing my ability to crop the picture very much. I will play with the focus until it looks tack sharp to me in the viewfinder, release the shutter, then review the image and shed a few tears... Like I said, I only miss it by a teeeeeny tiny bit, but miss it none the less. Given that my camera does so well on AF, I think it's safe to eliminate the camera as the problem, leaving quite obviously...me. Am I going nuts? Or is this a learning curve most new photographers go through? Does anyone have tips or tricks I could use to practice? Or things that may be particularly easy to practice on? 

Here are a couple examples of what I mean. They're not the best examples, cause I usually delete the bad ones out of frustration, but I think they show what I mean.

1.
I was going for the bird, but ended up getting the box instead, AAAARRRRRGGGG! I swear it looked like the bird was in focus when I snapped the shot...







2. MF






3. AF





Thanks Much!


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## supraman215 (Jun 25, 2010)

I SUCK at MF as well. I have the same frustration. The newer cameras don't seem to have the same little focus helpers in the middle of the frame that the old ones used to. I was told the best thing to do is to focus fast, and as soon as you see the focus stop and wind it back a touch and that's it. I haven't been able to make this work myself but maybe you will have more luck with it.


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## fokker (Jun 25, 2010)

Part of the problem is that modern crop body DSLR's have a relatively small and dim viewfinder compared with full-frame or film SLR's. This makes manually focusing tougher. A couple of tricks I've picked up:
-Use live view for manual focusing if you're on a tripod and the subject is still. You can zoom in to 10x magnification on the LCD screen which lets you really nail the focus perfectly on whatever you choose.
-With a lot of lenses, you can set the focus on what you want to focus on, and then zooming with the lens will still keep the same focus point. So you can zoom right in to focus manually in the viewfinder, then zoom back out to whatever framing you intended.
-Practice makes perfect


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## mwcfarms (Jun 25, 2010)

You can also adjust your diopter and see if that helps.


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## Big Mike (Jun 25, 2010)

Why not just use AF instead of trying to do it manually?  :scratch:

Concentrate on things like exposure & composition.


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## Lipoly (Jun 25, 2010)

fokker said:


> With a lot of lenses, you can set the focus on what you want to focus on, and then zooming with the lens will still keep the same focus point. So you can zoom right in to focus manually in the viewfinder, then zoom back out to whatever framing you intended.



How do you identify if a lens is capable of this?  It sounds extremely handy.  My Nikon 18-55 changes just enough across the zoom range to make this not work.


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## nchips1 (Jun 25, 2010)

mwcfarms said:


> You can also adjust your diopter and see if that helps.


THIS THIS this

I used to have trouble myself. I guess I just got used to it now.


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## Petraio Prime (Jun 25, 2010)

Many of the lower-priced auto-focus SLRs don't have good focussing screens. I use a Leicaflex SL2. It has the best focussing screen ever made. Brilliant, large, easy to see.


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## nchips1 (Jun 25, 2010)

Petraio Prime said:


> Many of the lower-priced auto-focus SLRs don't have good focussing screens. I use a Leicaflex SL2. It has the best focussing screen ever made. Brilliant, large, easy to see.


Well aren't you cool


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## crimbfighter (Jun 25, 2010)

I am working on exposure and composition, but I am a firm believer that practicing all the basics is important. Plus, there are lenses that don't AF, such as my 50mm 1.8, and as far as I'm concerned, if I can't nail the focus, the lens is useless... 

Supraman215 and fokker, thanks for the tips.  I'll have to give them a shot and see if that works for me.

Thanks for the suggestions!


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## crimbfighter (Jun 25, 2010)

nchips1 said:


> mwcfarms said:
> 
> 
> > You can also adjust your diopter and see if that helps.
> ...



This maybe a total beginner question, but does the diopter alter the photo at all, or is it just a use option that allows you to adjust the camera to best fit you?


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## Breaux (Jun 25, 2010)

I agree with Big Mike - use the autofocus!  I use all manual film cameras, mostly because I want the simple creative control, but the one thing I would add if I could is autofocus.


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## Big Mike (Jun 25, 2010)

> This maybe a total beginner question, but does the diopter alter the photo at all, or is it just a use option that allows you to adjust the camera to best fit you?


It doesn't affect the photo.  In fact, the whole viewfinder assembly has no affect because once you press the shutter release, the mirror flips up and out of the way (the viewfinder goes dark).


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## Derrel (Jun 25, 2010)

What Petraio says is true--I would amend his statement to say that most of the lower-priced autofocus SLRs have poor focusing screens; most lower-cost models use a pentamirror system,not a pentaprism, and the quality of even the mid-level d-slrs is nowhere near as good as the bright and crisp image of say the Nikon D1 or D2 series, which were probably the best APS-C bodies ever made, viewfinder-wise that is. The Nikon D2x has a super viewfinder quality for an APS-C d-slr. STILL, manually focusing an AF camera is not always easy.

Why? 30 to 40 percent of the light goes right through the mirror, and is angled downward, to the AF sensors located in the bottom of the mirror chamber area, behind the mirror. AF slr's use partially transmissive mirrors, whereas older manual focus SLR's used full-reflectance mirrors, and the user focused on a coarser-ground focusing screen, and lenses from the manual focus era had slower, more-deliberate focusing ring travel. Almost any decent manual focus 35mm slr is easier and more accurate and more-reliable to focus by hand and eye than almost ANY modern d-slr is.

The focusing screen inside a d-slr has a bright, smooth ground surface, which is NOT very good for determining focus with using the human eye--a coarser-ground screen is actually easier for the human eye to see and evaluate. If you have to focus by hand, always focus from Infinity and turn the lens toward the closer distances; this works best (long,involved answer,due to lens focusing rate of travel/human eye adaptation). Focus from FAR to near, and as soon as it looks good, stop! You might have to make one small reversal of direction, but this is the best way to manually focus.

Practice and review can help. AF works the best most of the time though, but at times, you'll want to manually focus,so it pays to learn how to get the most out of your gear. Most AF lenses have very short focusing ring travels, and so errors can be quite large. Most manual focusing lenses are easier to focus by hand and eye than most AF lenses. Wide-angle AF lenses can be a total biatch to focus by hand and eye.


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## Petraio Prime (Jun 25, 2010)

nchips1 said:


> Petraio Prime said:
> 
> 
> > Many of the lower-priced auto-focus SLRs don't have good focussing screens. I use a Leicaflex SL2. It has the best focussing screen ever made. Brilliant, large, easy to see.
> ...



Yes, I am!

LOL

1975 vintage camera. Uses phylm. No autophocus. No auto expozur. Manual advanz. 






Takes photos like this:






Taken with 180mm Elmarit-R- (Mark 2) lens and Leicaflex SL-2 last Saturday on Fuji NPH (ISO 400) and scanned. I looked at the image under high magnification and discovered the focus went right through her left (closer) eye. I don't think auto-focus can do that.


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## white (Jun 25, 2010)

crimbfighter said:


> Ok, so here's my issue... I am trying to  force myself to learn the basics of photography, and manually focusing  has been a HUGE frustration for me. For some reason, I always seem to  miss the focus, just by a little bit, when compared to the AF. The AF  gets it right 98ish percent of the time (the other 2% is usually user  error, wrong focus mode, AF point, or just miss it, ect.) But when I  take a photo using MF, I always seem to miss it by just that tiny  margin, blowing my ability to crop the picture very much. I will play  with the focus until it looks tack sharp to me in the viewfinder,  release the shutter, then review the image and shed a few tears... Like I  said, I only miss it by a teeeeeny tiny bit, but miss it none the less.  Given that my camera does so well on AF, I think it's safe to eliminate  the camera as the problem, leaving quite obviously...me. Am I going  nuts? Or is this a learning curve most new photographers go through?  Does anyone have tips or tricks I could use to practice? Or things that  may be particularly easy to practice on?



It is much easier to focus my film SLR/rangefinders than my dSLR. I love how most of the basic information on old SLRs is not included on some lower-end dSLR stuff, and I especially like how the manual focus indicator is a stupid green dot in the lower left corner. 

Seems like consumers are being nickled and dimed for features that came standard years ago.

/rant


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## ...take the shot! (Jun 25, 2010)

Just my 2 cents.
Ever since I got my D3000 I always used the manual focus, its just my personal liking. 
I hate automatics, with cameras, cars, even playing car based video games, lqtm.
And I hate my view finder, I wish it had live view.  
The way I shoot is I just twist the manual focus ring back an forth until it looks sharp, and then ill do it again just to be sure, all before I take the picture.
I agree with the diopter comments and practice-x3.


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## rusty9 (Jun 25, 2010)

well i assume that you were using one of the kit lenses listed in your signature. those lenses have cheap manual focus rings. it is easier with a lens of better quality.


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## crimbfighter (Jun 25, 2010)

I do mostly use the kit lenses, but I also now have a 35mm f/1.8G AF-S (which I'm pretty sure is meant to MF as well as AF) and a 50mm f/1.8G AF. 

Thankyou all for the great suggestions, and explanations of how these modern DSLR's work. Certainly gives me a lot more to work with (and practice with).

And I do remember the old days with those split image screens. I didn't even make the connection until you mentioned something about them, Graystar. I can definitely see how modern DSLR's weren't meant to be manually focused if they take such effective tools away which aided manual focusing, at least on the lower end models, anyway.


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## supraman215 (Jun 25, 2010)

Auto focus doesn't work well in all lights. and my auto assist beam doesn't always go on, sometimes it goes back and forth. My 35mm is the worst about it.


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## burstintoflame81 (Jun 25, 2010)

Do you need glasses? I don't mean that as a crack, but seriously, maybe get an eye exam. Also check the diopter as stated. Try using live view so you have a bigger image to work with. Also, try using your f/1.8 lens, the view finder will be brighter. Start with that lens and then work your way to the harder stuff.

Also, its good to practice if you do alot of shots that may require this. However, unless AF is chasing due to low light. or if you are doing macro with insane depth of field, there is really no reason you should be using MF on a modern dSLR. Thats like push starting your car and popping the clutch everytime you need to go to the store for milk instead of using the ignition, just because you may have to do it someday if your battery dies.

These cameras have these features for a reason and they are tools to make your job easier, faster, and more consistent. Just as you said about user error, the more you remove the human element, the more consistent things become. I not going to chop down a tree by attaching a sharpened rock to a stick, I am going to use a chainsaw ( ok I just wanted to get one more analogy in ) .


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## LarryD (Jun 25, 2010)

If you want to practice with the focus of your modern DSLR, read about how many focusing points you have and how to quickly navigate between them.

Sometimes you want them all on, like for broad landscapes, other times you have a distinct subject and want to only use the center point, or one of the offset points if you choose to frame the subject left or right of center...

Do this with your metering also.  Many DSLR's have center weighted, spot, and matrix average..........  there is a time where one if more valuable than the other.......

Knowing how everything works, and when to use it, on your camera is as important as knowing how to manually adjust these things to achieve what you want..


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## crimbfighter (Jun 26, 2010)

burstintoflame81 said:


> Do you need glasses? I don't mean that as a crack, but seriously, maybe get an eye exam. Also check the diopter as stated. Try using live view so you have a bigger image to work with. Also, try using your f/1.8 lens, the view finder will be brighter. Start with that lens and then work your way to the harder stuff.
> 
> Also, its good to practice if you do alot of shots that may require this. However, unless AF is chasing due to low light. or if you are doing macro with insane depth of field, there is really no reason you should be using MF on a modern dSLR. Thats like push starting your car and popping the clutch everytime you need to go to the store for milk instead of using the ignition, just because you may have to do it someday if your battery dies.
> 
> These cameras have these features for a reason and they are tools to make your job easier, faster, and more consistent. Just as you said about user error, the more you remove the human element, the more consistent things become. I not going to chop down a tree by attaching a sharpened rock to a stick, I am going to use a chainsaw ( ok I just wanted to get one more analogy in ) .



 My vision is 20/10, but that would have been a good place to start! 

I liked the analogies, it's definitely a good point of view to consider. 
Thanks


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## Petraio Prime (Jun 26, 2010)

Graystar said:


> crimbfighter said:
> 
> 
> > Ok, so here's my issue... I am trying to force myself to learn the basics of photography, and manually focusing has been a HUGE frustration for me.
> ...



We _have_ mentioned it, several of us.


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## AlexL (Jun 26, 2010)

You can practice (at least on the canons I know) by pressing the shutter half way and when your manual focus is right, the AF point is going to flash.

That way you can see the manual focus is correct or not.


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## Petraio Prime (Jun 26, 2010)

Graystar said:


> Petraio Prime said:
> 
> 
> > Graystar said:
> ...



You're nitpicking. Several of us have mentioned that the screens of the cheap SLRs are not that good for manual focussing, for whatever reasons. It doesn't matter why...they are just not that good. Get a Leicaflex if you want to see what a focussing screen _should_ look like.


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