# Not sure which Canon to buy?



## photogenetic19 (Dec 10, 2011)

I've been saving up for a couple of years to get a good DSLR camera and I love and am already familiar with Canon.  I took photography all four years of high school, the first two years learning about film and the last two years learning about digital work.  During my film years, I learned how to work in the dark room as well as scan negatives and finish prints on the computer, and I used my mom's Canon Rebel xti.  Then, during my digital years, I did not have a DSLR so I just used my standard Olympus point and shoot camera, which was fine for this class designed for beginners.  However, this camera had low megapixels (I can't remember the exact number atm) so the resolution was not so great.  I'm very skilled in photoshop as this was how we edited all of our photos for the class.  I am now a sophomore in college and I miss photography so much.  I want to get a good Canon DSLR that will allow me to grow with it and last me a long time.  I have been researching a little and it seems that the Canon EOS Rebel T3i and the Canon EOS Rebel T2i are both pretty good cameras, and from what I heard they are good for both beginners and intermediate level photographers, which is what I want since I don't want to be limited by lack of features.  Do you have any advice or thoughts on what might be a good camera for me?  I don't mind spending the money if it will last me a while and allow me to make high resolution prints, however $800 is roughly my limit.


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## Robin Usagani (Dec 10, 2011)

Personally I would buy a used camera + good lens.  $800 for a new camera will hardly get you anything.


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## Crollo (Dec 11, 2011)

Except for a Rebel T2i w\EF-S 18-55 or a Rebel T2i w\EF-S 18-55 + 75-300 or a Rebel T2i w\EF-S 18-135 or a Rebel T2i or a Rebel T3 w\EF-S 18-55 or a Rebel T3 w\EF-S 18-55 + 75-300 or a Rebel T3 w\EF-S 18-55 + 55-250 or a Rebel T3i w\EF-S 18-55 or a Rebel T3i or a Rebel T1i w\EF-S 18-55 or a Rebel T1i or a Rebel XS w\EF-S 18-55 or a Rebel XSi w\EF-S 18-55 or a Rebel XSi or a Rebel XT w\EF-S 18-55 or a Rebel XT, but you're right, other then those 16, you can't get _anything_ for $800.


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## analog.universe (Dec 11, 2011)

All of those combinations you mentioned are cameras designed to be cheap paired with lenses designed to be cheap... I wouldn't go for any of them.

Used 40D + 50mm 1.4 would also be $800, and I would chose it in a second over anything Rebel, and over any of those very slow zoom lenses.


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## Derrel (Dec 11, 2011)

analog.universe said:


> All of those combinations you mentioned are cameras designed to be cheap paired with lenses designed to be cheap... I wouldn't go for any of them.



Analog.universe--you would be called a bad,bad Canon end-user by the folks in Tokyo!!! Canon sells boatloads of those low-end combos. Those are what people want! Just ask the management at Canon...they will confirm that those are THE biggest-selling items. Highest sales volumes, most total profit for Canon.


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## EchoingWhisper (Dec 11, 2011)

Have you gave Nikon a though?


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## analog.universe (Dec 11, 2011)

Derrel said:


> analog.universe said:
> 
> 
> > All of those combinations you mentioned are cameras designed to be cheap paired with lenses designed to be cheap... I wouldn't go for any of them.
> ...



I don't doubt it.  

Canon's entry level is targeted at folks who want high quality snapshots (oxymoron alert), not at photographers without much budget.  The rebels with their kit lenses are useful for some people, but I wouldn't recommend them to someone who's spent years learning photography and wants equipment that they can grow with.  Those folks are not the target for Rebels...  The bodies lack critical dedicated controls, and the lenses are useless in low light.


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## photogenetic19 (Dec 11, 2011)

Aye guys...not helping here lol.  Especially that huge list of cameras... o__o


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## photogenetic19 (Dec 11, 2011)

Yeah, a lot of people are also telling me that I should just buy a Rebel xti again just with a different lens, since the lenses are interchangeable between film and digital Canons.  I loved the Rebel, but I also I want something that's not so out of date and something I can have for 10-20 years and still be reliable.


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## bentcountershaft (Dec 11, 2011)

Getting anything now and expecting it to last 10-20 years is a bit of a stretch I think.  However I would also recommend one of the Rebels and a better lens.  That's the route I went, and I don't regret it.


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## photogenetic19 (Dec 11, 2011)

bentcountershaft said:


> Getting anything now and expecting it to last 10-20 years is a bit of a stretch I think.  However I would also recommend one of the Rebels and a better lens.  That's the route I went, and I don't regret it.



Thanks!  Yeah it may be a stretch since technology is forever growing but I'm just trying to get my point across.  I don't want to spend money on a camera that I'll be limited by in a few years and then want to get another.  I'd like to be satisfied for a while, especially since I'm a poor college student


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## Derrel (Dec 11, 2011)

OP--take a peek at analog.universe's sig file and the gear list he has there...not a lot of stuff...just a few rock-solid, lifetime-type lenses...that might give you an idea of where he's coming from. To me, the LACK of a dedicated "two-button" control is what makes the Canon Rebel series and the low-est end Nikon bodies un-desirable for manual mode exposure setting. Also, the Rebel bodies and the low-est end Nikons have a good percentage of the settings one will want to adjust buried in menus...once you learn more about photography, it becomes a PITA to adjust a Rebel or a lowest end Nikon's somewhat basic adjustment parameters by first going to a menu, then finding the correct menu, and only then, being able to make adjustments to the camera's settings...

"High-resolution prints" can be made from TOP-quality 12,14,16,or 18 megapixel captures. That means a good lens, with a STEADY camera (flash or tripod if at slower speeds/dimmer light), and good focus, and a shutter speed that stops ALL motion. A 12 MP file can be up-rezzed in post to make a high-quality image. A used camera would be okay I think, I really do.


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## cepwin (Dec 11, 2011)

Yeah, $800 is pretty tight for a new camera.  You can find the T2i on sale for $600 w/ a basic lens.  Some of the bigger lenses are on sale too (I believe I saw one that is normally $250 for $100. Check on line but it's also very possible a local store can/will match especially the more established places (eg. B & N.)  From my understanding and seeing the two the main difference is the T3i has a swivel screen which can help in certain situations but other than that their virtually the same. One other important thing that was emphasized to me in my search is your first brand is likely your brand for *life.*  However, from what I learned you can't go wrong with a cannon and you already have had good experiences with one.  As for 20 years, now that we're in the digital age technology changes so quickly you're likely going to want something newer within a few years (although it's not like a gaming PC where if you don't upgrade every 2-4 years you can't run the latest games.) Remember in 5 years you hopefully will be making full use of your degree and no longer a poor student, so you can start saving for the next body...unless you have a PhD in mind   (And of course, hopefully your lenses, etc will carry over to any future bodies.)


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## Robin Usagani (Dec 11, 2011)

Schwettylens said:


> Personally I would buy a used camera + good lens.  $800 for a new camera will *hardly* get you anything.



Yup.. I stand corrected.  Just bunch of rebels with lens kit = hardly get you anything.  I rather get a used rebel+kit lens plus a better lens.  Just my 2 cents.


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## Crollo (Dec 11, 2011)

Schwettylens said:


> Just bunch of rebels with lens kit = hardly get you anything.





> it seems that the Canon EOS Rebel T3i and the Canon EOS Rebel T2i are both pretty good cameras, and from what I heard they are good for both beginners



Yeah, not that he was looking to get rebels or anything.


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## Robin Usagani (Dec 11, 2011)

Yes.. you can get a used Rebel T2i with a kit lens and you still have money to buy another lens.  Why are you arguing?  I dont get it.

http://denver.craigslist.org/pho/2745215321.html

$550 with kit lens.  He will still have $250 to buy memory card, 50mm f/1.8, and something else.

From the beginning I suggested USED dslr.  A lot of people buy rebels and decided photography is not their thing.  You save some money and no tax.


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## Crollo (Dec 11, 2011)

Yes, but I'm arguing the point that you're saying 800$ won't get you anything NEW. There's 16 combinations that I found in 15 minutes of browsing amazon, and then you say that the combinations don't count simply because you don't like rebels? He's a beginner, he wants to get started, the rebels will work perfectly fine for him so I don't see why they should just be written off like that.

I also don't get the cheap factor there, IIRC many of the [new] combos I listed cost roughly same as that used one you offered so why buy used instead of new, if there isn't a cost difference?


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## Robin Usagani (Dec 11, 2011)

Did I say won't?  Go back and read.


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## Destin (Dec 11, 2011)

Crollo said:


> Yes, but I'm arguing the point that you're saying 800$ won't get you anything NEW. There's 16 combinations that I found in 15 minutes of browsing amazon, and then you say that the combinations don't count simply because you don't like rebels? He's a beginner, he wants to get started, the rebels will work perfectly fine for him so I don't see why they should just be written off like that.
> 
> I also don't get the cheap factor there, IIRC many of the [new] combos I listed cost roughly same as that used one you offered so why buy used instead of new, if there isn't a cost difference?



ARE YOU KIDDING?! For $800 on used gear I can get what would have been about 2 grand worth of gear just 2-3 years ago. We're talking used semi-pro gear vs new entry level gear. 

What you you choose for the same price... a Used BMW with 30,000 miles on it, or a new ford sedan? The difference in build quality and attention to detail is THAT big.


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## Crollo (Dec 11, 2011)

Destin said:


> ARE YOU KIDDING?! For $800 on used gear I can get what would have been about 2 grand worth of gear just 2-3 years ago. We're talking used semi-pro gear vs new entry level gear.



I made the unfortunate mistake of trying to use this argument. It ended poorly.



> Wouldn't a 1Ds or a 1D Mark II N body be a better choice? What with being 100$ cheaper [Than a brand new 7d] and being professional bodies and all, I wouldn't personally pay 100$ for something lesser when there's the choice.





> Sure, if you want to buy a used camera with over 3/4 of its estimated shutter life gone as well as who knows what else wrong with it.


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## Destin (Dec 11, 2011)

Crollo said:


> Destin said:
> 
> 
> > ARE YOU KIDDING?! For $800 on used gear I can get what would have been about 2 grand worth of gear just 2-3 years ago. We're talking used semi-pro gear vs new entry level gear.
> ...



I'd disagree. I've gone through 4 used camera bodies in the last 4 years. You can get a used Nikon D90 with less than 15,000 clicks for under $500 now... It was selling for about a grand 3 years ago, and is rated to 100,000 photos. I'll buy used over new EVERY time.


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## Crollo (Dec 11, 2011)

You're right and I agree with you, but again I'm not arguing in any way that new gear will be better then used pro gear. I'm simply arguing that 800$ WILL get you a decent amount of choices as a beginner, and won't 'hardly' get you anything unless you're a freaking professional or an advanced amateur, neither of which fit the OP's profile.


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## bentcountershaft (Dec 11, 2011)

Buying used can be a bit intimidating for a complete beginner.  I don't think I would have been comfortable with my judgement at that time.  If the OP has any experienced buddies that could help.


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## analog.universe (Dec 11, 2011)

Crollo said:


> You're right and I agree with you, but again I'm not arguing in any way that new gear will be better then used pro gear. I'm simply arguing that 800$ WILL get you a decent amount of choices as a beginner, and won't 'hardly' get you anything unless you're a freaking professional or an advanced amateur, neither of which fit the OP's profile.



Statements like this assume that you're comfortable buying something that you know you will replace.  Beginners aren't beginners for long, and Rebel's are designed for beginners.  Once you're no longer a beginner, and your rebel begins to frustrate you, you'll upgrade to the camera that you should've bought the first time.  It just seems a costly and creatively limiting way to go about things.  Lots of folks will disagree, but I really don't dig beginner gear, even for beginners.  (fantastic plastic nifty fifty excluded)


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## Crollo (Dec 11, 2011)

It depends on what you're going to actually do and what you're going to need. Not everybody would need more AF points as they don't shoot sports and whatnot so therefore a rebel would suit them fine with it's low AF point number. Apply this to all the bases and only then will you be able to judge whether or not it's worth it to buy a beginners camera if the limitations will be so strong, OP states he doesn't want to face limitations but does not tell us what he intends to shoot that would actually warrant anything more then a rebel. That's why I say he doesn't fit the profile.


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## photogenetic19 (Dec 11, 2011)

Crollo said:


> It depends on what you're going to actually do and what you're going to need. Not everybody would need more AF points as they don't shoot sports and whatnot so therefore a rebel would suit them fine with it's low AF point number. Apply this to all the bases and only then will you be able to judge whether or not it's worth it to buy a beginners camera if the limitations will be so strong, OP states he doesn't want to face limitations but does not tell us what he intends to shoot that would actually warrant anything more then a rebel. That's why I say he doesn't fit the profile.



Well, first off, to everyone, I'm a girl.  lol But anyways I shoot a lot of people, animals, also still-life stuff.  I do consider myself a beginner, HOWEVER, I learn pretty fast, and I am already familiar with the Rebel xti like I said before.  



> Statements like this assume that you're comfortable buying something  that you know you will replace.  Beginners aren't beginners for long,  and Rebel's are designed for beginners.  Once you're no longer a  beginner, and your rebel begins to frustrate you, you'll upgrade to the  camera that you should've bought the first time.  It just seems a costly  and creatively limiting way to go about things.  Lots of folks will  disagree, but I really don't dig beginner gear, even for beginners.   (fantastic plastic nifty fifty excluded)



Exactly!  That is what I don't want to run into.  I want a camera that will be good for me now and even if it may be difficult to use at first, I'll be able to learn with it.  I don't want to buy a camera now, get bored with it, and want to be a camera with more features, megapixels, etc. and then regret buying the first one because it was a waste of money.  Like I said before I am a poor college student, and my mom is helping me out for Xmas and she doesn't mind spending the money but this is something that is an investment, a camera that I can use for at least 5 years or so and if anything upgrade the lenses along the way, without necessarily having to upgrade the body.


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## photogenetic19 (Dec 11, 2011)

I also don't mind buying a used one either...I'm not against it at all, but like another poster mentioned it is a little intimidating since I haven't taken pictures with my Rebel in almost a year (since film is a drag without access to a dark room) so I would be afraid of someone ripping me off because I wouldn't necessarily know what to look for in making sure the camera is in good and working condition.


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## user3977 (Dec 11, 2011)

so do you have an Xti now? one thing is that it takes cf cards not sd like the t1, t2, t3 bodys. i know for me thats one reason i have not went up from the xti. just when i was going to get a 50d the 60 comes out and the 50 disappears. CL around me has the 50 for what it would have cost new so im just waiting and saving for the 7d.


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## gstaska (Dec 12, 2011)

I'm a beginner as well. About 6 years ago I bought the rebel xti brand new and paid $700 for the body and a lens. I thought it was a great camera to learn on and had no problems understanding it or switching to different settings. As I grew in what I know, I also met other people who have a passion for this hobby as well. Just this last  week, I sold my xti for 400 and paid 600 for the canon 1dmark ll. I tend to think I got a good deal and did it right for me. It sounds like you have people who share your interest. Listen to them and what they have to say and keep in mind if they have it newer when you are ready to upgrade, so are they and will probably give you a great deal! Have fun!


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## eUgalde13 (Dec 12, 2011)

I don't think the T2i is a super pro camera but is excellent for us newbies. I got mine this summer and don't regret it but I know that I'll be upgrading in a couple of years once I understand the whole game. 
I think your best option is here: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/675618-REG/Canon_4462B003_EOS_Rebel_T2i_Digital.html  I believe you can combine more items including an extra lens for more discounts and the best parts is that they're all new 

Sent from my iPhone using PhotographyForum app


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## eUgalde13 (Dec 12, 2011)

Wow I just find out that you could pay $105 for the 55-250 or $299 for the 70-300 lens if you combine with this camera. 
 I feel ripped off 

Sent from my iPhone using PhotographyForum app


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## w0M (Dec 12, 2011)

Destin said:
			
		

> I'd disagree. I've gone through 4 used camera bodies in the last 4 years. You can get a used Nikon D90 with less than 15,000 clicks for under $500 now... It was selling for about a grand 3 years ago, and is rated to 100,000 photos. I'll buy used over new EVERY time.


4 bodies in 4 years...  Unless you did incredibly well reselling and didn't break any,  if you just bought the d90 I assume you're using now new full price,  I think you would have spent less overall and had a better camera for longer


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## jaomul (Dec 12, 2011)

To OP. T2i is a nice camera and will produce nice images. It's fairly well laid out and I am sure would give you many years use if taken care of properly. The next "line" up from the rebels are the 20,30,40,50 and 60D (with 60D sometimes seen as inferior to the others). Anyway for your money you can as suggested buy rebels with kit lenses. If video is not important and your happy to go second-hand I would recommend looking for a good 40D or 50D. These models have better layouts than rebels, are bigger and more solidly built and have a far better focus system. The 40D is a 10mp camera and the 50D is a 15mp camera (10mp is plenty for most uses with full-frame pro cameras less than 10 years ago having 4mp), many who are in the know recommend the 40D over the 50D, but the 50D has some newer tech. Either way if you go with one of these second-hand models you may have enough in your budget for a used and highly recommended tamron 17-50 f2.8 or sigma 18-50 f2.8 fast kit lens replacement.


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## monty.craig (Dec 12, 2011)

Jaomul, I was going to suggest the same thing! I had my mind made up a year ago to finally buy a new DSLR, but it came down to that, or paying the mortgage! Ha! Anyway, I am back to the point of being ready to buy, and I can find no 50D's anywhere! I would gladly buy a Canon 50D over the Nikon D7000 that I am getting ready to buy, if I could only find one! They are both great cameras, but my point is, don't be afraid of a 50D if you can find one! Most people will never use all of the controls that their camera is capable of anyway, so get something you feel comfortable with. If you plan on living with it for a long time, put your money in good glass, and buy used good condition bodies! As a point of reference... my last good camera that I bought used BTW was a ZoneIV 4x5 field camera! Yep, I am coming into the new millennium!


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## etnad0 (Dec 13, 2011)

I just got my T2i on the 1st of this month and I love it. I have the 18-55mm and 75-300mm lenses and they are great for learning. I know I'll have to upgrade in a few years even though this is just an expensive hobby at the moment. Keeps me out of the casinos here in Vegas. With that said, all this people talking about wasting money keep forgetting to tell you one thing: You can sell your camera and get most of your money back. I bought mine during the Black Friday sale so I got a good deal on an entire package of things. I got the following for $750

T2i
18-55mm lens
75-300mm lens
Lens Hood
Table top tripod
Lens Brush
Lens Blower
Cleaning Kit
18% Gray Card
Speed Carry Viewfinder Eyepiece 
UV Filter
2x 4GB SD Cards
1x 16GB SD Cards
58-55mm step down ring 
Cheapo Plastic Matte Box with French Flags
On camera flash diffuser
Remote Shutter Release
Eye-Fi wireless SD Card

I'm sure there is something missing from the list and some of it was bought separately, but when I'm ready to upgrade I can keep all of the above and sell the body for $500 - $600 on eBay. Unless you plan to keep the camera and not use it, all you're paying is $150 - $250 to use it for a few years. That's less than what it costs to rent one for 2 weeks. I wouldn't call that a waste at all. Keep in mind that I'm not a pro. I've been doing this for years, but I just got my first real DSLR because I wanted to take the next step. I don't regret the T2i at all. It's a great camera to learn with. 

Also let me throw in that camera technology changes constantly. If you are the type to chase the newest upgrade, you'll always need to upgrade no matter what you buy. Buy a 7D or a 1D today and the 1DX will be out in a week or two after you get your camera. Next year the 1DX2 (hypothetical) will hit the market and so on. Just get a camera and have some fun with it. Nikon and Canon are good beginner cameras for your budget which is the same as my budget was.


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## designerfoo (Dec 13, 2011)

I got the Canon EOS 1000d (Rebel Series in the US) I think. 18-55mm and a 50 block. Then I discovered film


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## kamerageek (Dec 13, 2011)

I am currently shooting with a 40D and although I would love to run out and buy a shiny new 7D, I can't think of a solitary reason why that body would improve my photos at my current skill level. I have serious lens lust right now to the point that I've built a list of my must-have lenses that I'll pick off as my budget allows.

For now I'm shooting with the 17-85mm kit lens that came with my 40D, a 70-300 f3.5-5.6 and my prized 200mm f2.8L for shooting my kids' swim meets. My primary focus is on learning to take great photos with what I have now. The shiny new 7D (or XD if I wait long enough) will come, but for now producing great photos is on me and my lens choices.

My advice is to pick the gear that your budget allows and practice, practice, practice. Owning the best gear is not what makes great photographers.


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## CanonEOS (Dec 14, 2011)

photogenetic19 said:


> I've been saving up for a couple of years to get a good DSLR camera and I love and am already familiar with Canon.  I took photography all four years of high school, the first two years learning about film and the last two years learning about digital work.  During my film years, I learned how to work in the dark room as well as scan negatives and finish prints on the computer, and I used my mom's Canon Rebel xti.  Then, during my digital years, I did not have a DSLR so I just used my standard Olympus point and shoot camera, which was fine for this class designed for beginners.  However, this camera had low megapixels (I can't remember the exact number atm) so the resolution was not so great.  I'm very skilled in photoshop as this was how we edited all of our photos for the class.  I am now a sophomore in college and I miss photography so much.  I want to get a good Canon DSLR that will allow me to grow with it and last me a long time.  I have been researching a little and it seems that the Canon EOS Rebel T3i and the Canon EOS Rebel T2i are both pretty good cameras, and from what I heard they are good for both beginners and intermediate level photographers, which is what I want since I don't want to be limited by lack of features.  Do you have any advice or thoughts on what might be a good camera for me?  I don't mind spending the money if it will last me a while and allow me to make high resolution prints, however $800 is roughly my limit.



If this was my first time to buy a dslr i wouldn't waste my time on the forum i would be geting out to the shop and looking at what camera is for me i could make a suggestion like others have said but mine might be out of your budget range i was going to say a 60D but if you are on a budget choice a T3i if you like to do video and photos. Good luck


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## ScubaDude (Dec 22, 2011)

photogenetic19 said:


> I also don't mind buying a used one either...I'm not against it at all, but like another poster mentioned it is a little intimidating since I haven't taken pictures with my Rebel in almost a year (since film is a drag without access to a dark room) so I would be afraid of someone ripping me off because I wouldn't necessarily know what to look for in making sure the camera is in good and working condition.



Call Adorama (get their phone # at adorama.com). They carry used gear and have a great reputation. They're honest about the condition and their prices are fair. Get a used 40D and a lens to fit what you will be shooting.


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