# Vancouver Island Sunrise - How can I get the clouds to look better?



## andrrsgg (Aug 10, 2016)

If you look at the clouds in the photos below, you'll notice that the clouds don't look very good. They lack detail, and they aren't very sharp... How do you fix this? It seems to happen with most photos I take. 

These were taken with the landscape auto mode on my camera.

ISO 100, f/7.1, 1/125 sec:




ISO 100, f/8, 1/200 sec:


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## tirediron (Aug 10, 2016)

Was your focus point set to infinity?


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## vintagesnaps (Aug 10, 2016)

Good question, what's off in the distance seems more in focus than the foreground. Think about your exposure and camera settings especially in lower light/evenings. An ISO of 100 seems low for that time of day. A higher ISO should increase the light sensitivity so you could adjust the aperture differently and maybe try a smaller aperture to get more distance in focus.


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## andrrsgg (Aug 10, 2016)

tirediron said:


> Was your focus point set to infinity?


Not that I know of, how do you do that?


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## tirediron (Aug 10, 2016)

By turning the focusing ring to the infinity symbol (sideways "8").  It looks to me like the foreground is actually more in focus than the background, so I am guessing that you were focused inside infinity, meaning that the clouds were actually out of focus, 'though not by much.


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## KmH (Aug 10, 2016)

Clouds don't have any edges so they can never look 'sharp'.
Tutorials – Sharpness

A good understanding of depth-of-field will also help.
Understanding Depth of Field in Photography

If you're not using a good & stable tripod to hold the camera you may be inducing some camera shake.


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## andrrsgg (Aug 10, 2016)

tirediron said:


> By turning the focusing ring to the infinity symbol (sideways "8").  It looks to me like the foreground is actually more in focus than the background, so I am guessing that you were focused inside infinity, meaning that the clouds were actually out of focus, 'though not by much.


Helps a lot, thanks!


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## andrrsgg (Aug 10, 2016)

KmH said:


> If you're not using a good & stable tripod to hold the camera you may be inducing some camera shake.


Will keep that in mind. Thanks


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## WesternGuy (Aug 10, 2016)

Questions...

Are you confusing "sharpness" in the clouds with perhaps "bringing out more detail" in the clouds, because KmH is right, clouds are not normally sharp, but they do have detail, unless they are just blanket rain clouds (stratus types) with no features?

What type of camera are you using - just curious?

Why are you using "landscape auto mode" on your camera - just curious?  I would encourage you to use Aperture Priority and maybe open up half a stop or so - experiment with the settings and, if you don't know about it, check out "Exposure Compensation" if you have it.

If you have the capability, then you might try a 3 or 5 image HDR, but you will need a tripod and a remote shutter release or a timer on your camera for this.

Sometimes cloud detail can be brought out in post-processing by judicious selection of the clouds, or even just the entire sky area and then increasing the Contrast of the selection.

WesternGuy


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## andrrsgg (Aug 11, 2016)

WesternGuy said:


> Questions...
> 
> Are you confusing "sharpness" in the clouds with perhaps "bringing out more detail" in the clouds, because KmH is right, clouds are not normally sharp, but they do have detail, unless they are just blanket rain clouds (stratus types) with no features?
> 
> ...


1- Yeah, that's what I meant haha
2- I'm using a Canon Rebel T5i, with a 18-55mm lens
3- Usually I use the automatic modes in fear of not getting a good shot, and because it's much easier- it often takes lots of trial and error for me to find the correct exposure; although that can be fixed with practice... I'm not confident enough with the manual modes yet to use them in moments like this one... I will work on that though.
4- How do you do that? I've heard of it but I don't know how to do it.

Thanks for the help


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## WesternGuy (Aug 12, 2016)

andrrsgg said:


> WesternGuy said:
> 
> 
> > Questions...
> ...



1.  Well, we got that cleared up.  

2.  Okay - a good camera for those starting out.  Not so sure about the lens, but I suspect it came as as kit - camera + lens.  If you are saving your pennies to buy a new lens, then you might want to consider the 24-105 or another of similar focal length.  I would suggest that you not buy lenses specifically for C-sensor cameras, which is what the T5i is, as should you decide to go full frame in the future, the lenses for C-size sensors will not work on full frame cameras, but that sort of a decision just reflects my bias.  My first camera was a Canon Rebel Xt.  About 18 months later, I went full frame and have been that way ever since.

3.  There is only one real _Manual_ mode on that camera and that is the one marked M.  The ones marked Av and Tv can be thought of as more like semi-automatic.  The Av mode, or Aperture priority is used when you set the aperture and for a given ISO (which you set) and existing lighting conditions, the camera determines the shutter speed.  The Tv mode, or Shutter priority, is used when you want to set the shutter speed and for a given ISO (which you set) and lighting conditions, the camera determines the aperture.  Thus, in either mode you have control over two of the three factors in the exposure - you set the Aperture or Shutter speed and the ISO and the camera determines the other one you didn't set either Aperture or Shutter speed.  Here is a web site that will help you understand how all this works together - http://improvephotography.com/photography-basics/shooting-modes/   .   The references that KmH gave you are also quite good.

Personally, I take probably 90% of my images in Av mode.  I use the Tv mode for those times when I need to ensure that a certain shutter speed will be used, e.g., birds in flight, animals running in a field, etc.  I use the M(anual) mode mostly when I am doing macro photography and need to be very precise about my aperture and shutter speed.

The automatic modes that you are using are simply combinations of these two modes automated by some internal programming decided by some camera design engineer, based on what he/she thought the various exposures should be.  There is no guarantee that the combinations that are produced with these modes will give you an optimal set of exposure parameters for any particular image.  I would encourage you to move to one of the "Priority" modes for your photography.

One rule of thumb to remember is the "inverse rule".  To prevent shake if you are hand-holding a camera, the shutter speed should be the inverse (more or less) of the focal length of the lens with adaption for C-sensor cameras.  For example, if your are shooting at 50mm, then the minimum shutter speed should be 1/50 second for full frame and 1/(50- x 1.6) = 1/80 second for C-sensor cameras (Canon - Nikon is a bit different).  If your focal length is 200mm, the the minimum speed should be 1/200 sec for full frame and 1/(200 x 1.6) = 1/320 second for C-sensor cameras.  Using Av mode, then you do have to make sure that this all "matches" or you may have to adjust the ISO or aperture, or both, to achieve an adequate shutter speed.  It's a learning process. 

4.  Selection of parts of a photograph - this is done in a variety of ways depending on the software that you have (let us know).  In Lightroom there are a couple of ways to do this, depending on what you want to achieve.  I probably use the Adjustment Brush for a lot of my "selecting".  In Photoshop there are a number of tools for selecting "areas" or "objects" within an image.  On1's Photo Suite 10 also has a lot of the "selection" capabilities that Photoshop does, but it performs some of them in different ways.  I won't even begin to try and tell you how this is done in any of the products, as there are a large number of videos on YouTube and elsewhere that can explain it a lot better than I ever could.

I hope this helps a bit.  There are endless resources out there on the web and I would encourage you to search them out.   Regardless, I am sure if you post back here with a question, there are a large number of folks here who will try and answer them from their own experience.

WesternGuy


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## andrrsgg (Aug 12, 2016)

2- I'm buying a 55-250mm lens this month, although it is for C-sensor cameras. What is the difference between the C-sensor and the full sensor? Is there any significant difference in image quality?

3- Clears up a lot of things, thanks 

4- I see... I'll look into it sometime


Thanks for all the help and sorry for all the questions haha, this helps a ton!


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## WesternGuy (Aug 14, 2016)

No problem about the questions, that is what these forums are for - ask away.

2.  As far as the Crop sensor is concerned, in your case an APS-C sensor (Canon's crop sensor), when compared to a full frame (same size as a 35mm frame), there are pros and cons.  Here is one reference for you - Mark David | APS-C vs full frame and you can find all kinds of similar reviews and references by putting the key words "aps-c sensor vs full frame" into a Google search.

My question is why the 55-250?  I am assuming it is a Canon?  What kind of budget do you have?  Remember, lenses are like a lot of consumer products, you get exactly what you pay for.   If you buy a cheaper lens, then you may end up being disappointed with the results - just saying.    Depending on your budget, you may want to look at some of the third party lenses, particularly Sigma as they are making some very good glass these days - not cheap, but good glass never is.

I am glad I was able to help.  If you have more questions, then post them on the forum, or one of the relevant forums and I am sure you will get some decent help.  They are a pretty good and knowledgeable group here.

WesternGuy


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## andrrsgg (Aug 19, 2016)

WesternGuy said:


> No problem about the questions, that is what these forums are for - ask away.
> 
> 2.  As far as the Crop sensor is concerned, in your case an APS-C sensor (Canon's crop sensor), when compared to a full frame (same size as a 35mm frame), there are pros and cons.  Here is one reference for you - Mark David | APS-C vs full frame and you can find all kinds of similar reviews and references by putting the key words "aps-c sensor vs full frame" into a Google search.
> 
> ...


The lens is the Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS STM. It has really good image quality for a nice, relatively cheap price. I was looking for a lens with a low price and with good image quality, and this lens fits the bill. In the future I might look into better lenses, but for now, lenses like this one are fine.


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## zombiesniper (Aug 19, 2016)

Look to other lenses. I know a few people that are quite happy with the one linked below. I have also shot it and it's near Canon "L" glass quality.

Tamron 70-300mm


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