# 2012 - Are you throwing in the towel?



## PhotoWrangler (Jan 22, 2012)

Seems like throwing in the towel is the theme this year - so far anyway. I've heard lots of folks say that they just can't compete with lesser quality businesses, and that their clients are leaving for the 'cheap' photographers. You know, the $500 shoot-and-burn 'wedding' fauxtographers, or the 'senior' photographers who are charging $50 for a session and 400 8x10's and digital images.

I know I've heard it from more than a few fellow photographers, and it seems to be a conversation that is getting more and more common. 

So how are things in your part of the world, and even though its a redundant conversation, what are you doing to stay ahead?


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## pharmakon (Jan 22, 2012)

I'm not a photographer by profession, but I think quality and professionalism will always persevere. I personally don't mind paying good money for a good photographer to take photographs of my family.

I learned the age old "you get what you pay for" holds true for photographers well before I even dove into photography as a hobby. Didn't know anything about composition, exposure, resolution, DOF, etc... But I could still differentiate a professional from a poser just by looking at the finished product.


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## SCraig (Jan 22, 2012)

Name me one other legitimate profession in which someone with no talent, no education, no experience, and no abilities can legally call themselves a "Professional".


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## PhotoWrangler (Jan 22, 2012)

SCraig said:


> Name me one other legitimate profession in which someone with no talent, no education, no experience, and no abilities can legally call themselves a "Professional".




Prostitution.


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## SCraig (Jan 22, 2012)

ChristopherCoy said:


> SCraig said:
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> > Name me one other legitimate profession in which someone with no talent, no education, no experience, and no abilities can legally call themselves a "Professional".
> ...


Even that requires talent and ability.


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## unpopular (Jan 22, 2012)

it's called capitalism people.


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## PhotoWrangler (Jan 22, 2012)

SCraig said:


> Even that requires talent and ability.





Even if all you do is lay there? LOL


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## e.rose (Jan 22, 2012)

SCraig said:


> Name me one other legitimate profession in which someone with no talent, no education, no experience, and no abilities can legally call themselves a "Professional".



The music/entertainment industry.

Producers, Audio Engineers, Musical "Artists", Musicians, Bands, Songwriters, Singers.... I know at least one person in every category that SUCKS... and has NO BUSINESS doing what they're doing, yet their doing it and trying to pull... or SUCCESSFULLY pulling (albeit at a really low ****ty rate)... clients/gigs/fans/etc.


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## cgipson1 (Jan 22, 2012)

ChristopherCoy said:


> SCraig said:
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> 
> > Even that requires talent and ability.
> ...


 
With our politicians???? Especially if they just LAY there!   lol!  (oops.. I realize I just correlated politicians and prostitutes... they both take money.. and they both **** you! Right?.. Yea.. I know.. stating the obvious!)


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## Tee (Jan 22, 2012)

Picnik is closing.  This is going to cause a setback for Facebook fauxtogs.  Don't give up hope!


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## unpopular (Jan 22, 2012)

^^ esp with walmart hounding anyone who wants to print a remotely posed photograph.


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## SCraig (Jan 22, 2012)

e.rose said:


> The music/entertainment industry.
> 
> Producers, Audio Engineers, Musical "Artists", Musicians, Bands, Songwriters, Singers.... I know at least one person in every category that SUCKS... and has NO BUSINESS doing what they're doing, yet their doing it and trying to pull... or SUCCESSFULLY pulling (albeit at a really low ****ty rate)... clients/gigs/fans/etc.


Good point.  And living in Nashville I should have thought of that.


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## e.rose (Jan 22, 2012)

SCraig said:


> e.rose said:
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> 
> > The music/entertainment industry.
> ...





It's okay.  Sometimes we overlook things when it's part of our everyday life.


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## SCraig (Jan 22, 2012)

e.rose said:


> It's okay.  Sometimes we overlook things when it's part of our everyday life.


You got that right!  I don't even notice them most of the time any longer.  In the summer every street corner has the next star playing a guitar and just waiting to be discovered.


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## nickzou (Jan 22, 2012)

SCraig said:


> Name me one other legitimate profession in which someone with no talent, no education, no experience, and no abilities can legally call themselves a "Professional".



Graphic and web design. You think photography is bad? At least there is a start up cost that keeps potential posers out. With web and graphics, all you need is an internet connection a 16gigs worth if one time bandwidth.


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## bigtwinky (Jan 22, 2012)

I'm digging a different niche than the typical wedding and portraits.  Been working on it for over a year, networking and all that crap.  I had started doing weddings, assisted a few times, first shot a few times.  Did the maternity portraits, family portraits.  But as mentioned, it was getting annoying to compete with craiglists photographers.  So I decided to take what I was passionate about in photography and try and flip that into something viable.  Music photography.

Working mainly in the entertainment field, doing live shows for bands and then trying to switch that up to portraits and CD covers type of thing.  Throw in some event photography when they have after parties, and then the hook ups they give you with friends, fans and family for more work during normal people hours haha.

And if you wonder if you get paid?  Live shows a little less than portraits and CD /website art.  Legal issues are a huge thing and you need to be rock solid on usage rights.  But they pay is there.
And before you ask, no, this is not my full time job yet.  While I'm in the networking and building phase, I have the luxury of a full time job during the day and music shoots at night.  Sure, means 18 hours and no social life, but do-able.


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## unpopular (Jan 22, 2012)

nickzou said:


> SCraig said:
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> > Name me one other legitimate profession in which someone with no talent, no education, no experience, and no abilities can legally call themselves a "Professional".
> ...



At a printshop I worked at one of these "graphic artist" would send in files for two color, the problem is their were literally a half dozen colors, some in RGB, others in CMYK and never in spot.

He would literally make a new swatch every time he wanted a shade of the same color.


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## nickzou (Jan 22, 2012)

unpopular said:


> nickzou said:
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> > SCraig said:
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Let me guess he does sent the file as a PDF, he doesn't design with print in mind so he uses RGB colours, and he doesn't know how to set up bleeds.


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## Josh66 (Jan 22, 2012)

SCraig said:


> Name me one other legitimate profession in which someone with no talent, no education, no experience, and no abilities can legally call themselves a "Professional".


Basically any profession that has to tack "Professional" onto the beginning of the title to tell you that they're serious.

You don't go to a "Professional" Doctor, do you?


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## unpopular (Jan 23, 2012)

nickzou said:


> unpopular said:
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> > nickzou said:
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Nope. AI files created with Corel Draw, of course!

I got plenty of bad PDFs ... the worst were created from Microsoft Publish. That program is a disaster.


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## e.rose (Jan 23, 2012)

bigtwinky said:


> Sure, means 18 hours and no social life, but do-able.



Psh.  Our late night Facebook chats about paint fumes and the definition of art is all the social life you need.

DUH!  :lmao:


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## Redbaron (Jan 23, 2012)

Professional = paid, plain and simple. I used to be a professional butcher, since I was paid for it. These days with a fancy website (easy if you know how), and a few grand on a dslr and lenses and you can become a "professional" photographer. Even 10-20 grand on equipment is cheap compared to most self employed business models. Easy to do it from home as well.

"Professional" implies you are good at it, too - but guarantees nothing. We all like taking photos, else we wouldn't be here (on this forum). Someone gets stuck right into it, takes themselves as being gifted or talented, so runs an ad in the local paper.... Gets a few calls because he or she doesn't charge a lot. The ball is rolling and the GOOD 'togs, get less calls...


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## rub (Jan 23, 2012)

Yes, the influx of new "professionals" has changed the industry. I know this because I was one. I am not any more, because I've worked my ass off. I watch all the time as new businesses open around me. 

So for me, and actually for many around me, 2012 is representing a year of big change. And we are not closing our doors, we are opening them. Three new studios in the area, 2 new partnership boutique style businesses. And everyone with big price jumps. And we are BUSY. 

Just because some (ok, many) people will settle for pretty much anyone with a DSLR to take their picture, it doesn't mean everyone will. 

With targeted marketing, branding, quality products and amazing service, you can build a business model that can support you financially and fulfill you personally. I think for some professionals, the issue is less about being undercut by anyone with a camera, and more about not being able to adapt to a changing environment. 

Do the craigslist photographers affect our business, sure they do, but just means we can find better clients, offer a better experience, deliver a better product. I think this is a year where the true professionals can prove just that. Whether they have been in business for 2 years or 20, they can make waves and show clients just what being a professional really is.


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## SCraig (Jan 23, 2012)

O|||||||O said:


> Basically any profession that has to tack "Professional" onto the beginning of the title to tell you that they're serious.
> 
> You don't go to a "Professional" Doctor, do you?


No, but I do work in an office with a bunch of "Professional Engineers".


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## Josh66 (Jan 23, 2012)

SCraig said:


> O|||||||O said:
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> > Basically any profession that has to tack "Professional" onto the beginning of the title to tell you that they're serious.
> ...


The engineers I work with just call themselves "Engineers".


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## BlairWright (Jan 23, 2012)

rub said:


> Do the craigslist photographers affect our business, sure they do, but just means we can find better clients, offer a better experience, deliver a better product. I think this is a year where the true professionals can prove just that. Whether they have been in business for 2 years or 20, they can make waves and show clients just what being a professional really is.



If someone is looking for a photographer on Craigslist I doubt they have the money to spend to pay an experienced photographer. I do not consider Craigslist photographers a threat because those are not the clients I am looking for in the first place. 

There has always been a secondary market for cheap photographers, they are just much easier to find now due to the internet. If you are experienced and have a good product the FB and CL photographers should not be a threat to you.

-B


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## mjhoward (Jan 23, 2012)

O|||||||O said:


> SCraig said:
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> > O|||||||O said:
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There are 'Engineers' that have taken and passed the FE (Fundamentals of Engineering) exam.  Then there are 'Professional Engineers' that have taken and passed the much more extensive PE (Professional Engineer) exam.  This is similar to a certification that some professions get or even a lawyer passing the Bar exam.


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## o hey tyler (Jan 23, 2012)

I'm not throwing in the towel, I'm using it to dry off.


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## Robin Usagani (Jan 23, 2012)

I am about to wash my Schwetty towel.


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## unpopular (Jan 23, 2012)

I have to agree: professional means you're getting paid for it.

Buck up and compete. You can't blame these startups because you don't understand your market.


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## rexbobcat (Jan 23, 2012)

I find that several people in my area think that they are the s***, and price themselves accordingly, but in reality they're fairly inexperienced and have horrible personalities.

And that is why they fail.

At least in my area. 

Unless you are OMG AMAZING, nobody wants to deal with an asshole.


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## camz (Jan 23, 2012)

Well we're not throwing in the towel either but I foresee a change. This year, a lot of our inquiries are asking for images on a disc more than any year I've seen(The last 11 years I've been doing portraits).   It sure has changed.  As far as single big print sales, they are down. Good thing is, album sales have remained steady and closing clients also remained.  We might increase prices for 2013 based on that, but I'm still not quite sure on the tactic for our market.  

You have a good product Chris, just increase that client base by developing strong relationships and treating the VIPs(the one's who paid full price) like Gods .  Shoot I'd pay for your services.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Jan 23, 2012)

I'm throwing in the towel and doing things right in 20212, tax #, business license, insurance.


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## Kolander (Jan 23, 2012)

SCraig said:


> Name me one other legitimate profession in which someone with no talent, no education, no experience, and no abilities can legally call themselves a "Professional".



Socialist politician in the South of Europe


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## unpopular (Jan 23, 2012)

^^ The entire US legislature.


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## bigtwinky (Jan 23, 2012)

e.rose said:


> bigtwinky said:
> 
> 
> > Sure, means 18 hours and no social life, but do-able.
> ...



hahaa.. true that.  Social life my ass... facebook is godly.

Man, I feel like I'm chatting with you in a crowded room, with a bunch of people yelling at each other about something I'm not paying attention to right now.


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## iresq (Jan 23, 2012)

SCraig said:


> Name me one other legitimate profession in which someone with no talent, no education, no experience, and no abilities can legally call themselves a "Professional".



While I'm not a paid photographer, I do run a similar business - mobile DJ service.  We have been facing the same dilemma for a while.  What did I do to compete?  I raised my prices.  I am making more now and working less.  I don't market through the places were the bottom feeders dwell (FB, Craigslist, etc.  I don't even do bridal shows anymore).


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## Robin Usagani (Jan 23, 2012)

I wouldnt call FB bottom feeder though.  More like a free newsletter service to update your clients what is going on with your professional life and pictures you take.



iresq said:


> SCraig said:
> 
> 
> > Name me one other legitimate profession in which someone with no talent, no education, no experience, and no abilities can legally call themselves a "Professional".
> ...


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## gsgary (Jan 23, 2012)

I'll let you into a secret, the next big thing is film photography only weddings lots of people in the UK are going for it


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## rexbobcat (Jan 23, 2012)

gsgary said:


> I'll let you into a secret, the next big thing is film photography only weddings lots of people in the UK are going for it



This kind of relates, but my sig. other's sister had a wedding where she hired the main photog, and then she gave every single guest small disposable cameras so they could take photos of whatever they wanted. And then she asked for the film and sent the photos to all of the guests after the wedding. It was pretty creative in my opinion.


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## cmartin2 (Jan 23, 2012)

This sounds like normal business to me.  I think that a lot of talented people in every profession lose out to less talent because they don't have the business acumen.  This is especially true with small businesses (like professional photographers).  Don't get angry because someone with less talent is selling their product for cheaper.  In fact I challenge you the other way... name a non-government regulated product that doesn't have to compete with cheaper alternatives.  And yes, those cheaper alternatives are usually lesser quality, but that doesn't mean they don't have their place in the market too.


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## HughGuessWho (Jan 23, 2012)

SCraig said:
			
		

> Name me one other legitimate profession in which someone with no talent, no education, no experience, and no abilities can legally call themselves a "Professional".



Politics


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## Mo. (Jan 23, 2012)

ChristopherCoy said:
			
		

> Prostitution.



LOL!


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