# photography as a career, or as a backup



## naptime (Dec 8, 2011)

I THINK this is the right section for this...

 My 16 year old daughter is getting her first SLR for Christmas. I've posted in other areas that we are starting with black and white film. For a host of reasons. That can be found elsewhere on the board though..

 She has been gearing up for a career in the arts for quite some time now. Her classes in school have been arranged so that she can take design her junior year and photography her senior year. (Shes a sophomore now)

 she wants to be a photographer or a graphic artist / graphic designer.

 She knows that at all of the art school she is considering, they all require at least a semester of photography if you are going for design anyway. And if you are going for photography, you have to take classes for Photoshop. So whichever path she goes down, she'll still have training in both. 


 Anyway she's got a few years yet. And in a few weeks she'll have her first camera in hand to really start exploring this field..

 But last night she started a discussion with me... and I really had no answers for her...


 she asked... which do you think is better for my future.. Photography, with design as a hobby. Or design, with photography as a hobby. Basically, which offers more opportunities for employment and for money.

 And.. I didn't have an answer for her... we discussed it for a while. thinking of people we know in both industries and how they are doing.

 we discussed myself, and the many careers I have had.. I started out life as a graphic designer and wanted to be a professional silk screen printer, and literally, two weeks before going off to the Cleveland institute of art, with a full scholarship.... I bailed, and joined the army. I became a ranger, fought in two wars, and finally ended my career as a drill sergeant. while in the army, I went to night school, and received my bachelors in computer science. when I came home from the service I opened a computer store, and then sold it to work for ibm. I left ibm and of all things, opened a pizza shop. I sold my pizza shop and now I own a silk screen t shirt printing business. (which is what I started off to do 20 some years ago)

 so we looked at my life as an example... I am doing now, what I wanted to do 20 years ago. I dont feel I wasted the last 20 years. I have certainly done a lot and am very proud of my history and my education, etc...  but, my college degree does nothing for me, printing t-shirts out in my shop. yet, I am finally doing something I love to do, and have always wanted to do. and supporting my family at the same time, while bringing in more money than I did working for ibm or while owning a pizza shop.


 she is hoping to eliminate that 20 year gap. how much better could I be at screen printing, if Id done it for 20 years. how big could my shop be. how large could my client base be. instead I am small time since we are so new. 

 she doesnt want to go to college, and spend 5 or 10 years trying to get by, when a different path would have been the better choice...


 I know that most may think that photography will be the #1 answer here, since it's a photography forum. but really what I am looking for is... would you do it again... are you happy in your career.. does it provide for you.. or would you recommend photography as a hobby.


 she is also a violinist. a very accomplished violinist. she is in three orchestras and two quartets. she has traveled to Japan and south Korea for concert tours. this summer she will go to Peru for a concert tour. she has gotten perfect scores in the state solo competition for 4 years in a row. she's very good. (Im a proud dad can ya tell)

 she wanted to be a music school teacher...

 her private instructor, two different orchestra directors, and her music advisor for one of her orchestras.. ALL told her DO NOT choose music as a career. not as a put down on her skill, but as a warning that music as a career or teaching music as a career, is not very financially fulfilling. and is hard to be employed. her private teacher just gets by. but she also works a part time job as a sub. and her husband is a nurse.  they make ends meet. her orchestra directors both have full time jobs, one, is not in the music field, and the other is a high school music teacher. 

 they all recommended that she certainly continue with music. and perhaps become a private teacher herself if thats what she likes.. but they all recommended staying with a different main career. 


 sorry for the long winded post, but that's me.. lol..

 thanks everyone for any input.

jay


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## Rephargotohp (Dec 8, 2011)

Graphic Design Hands down..and that isn't to discourage her..But Yeah Hands Down. There are so many avenues that could take her.


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## MLeeK (Dec 8, 2011)

Design (probably digital graphic design if it were my call-it's an ever growing field) as a primary focus in school, photography second-or even third. She can always land a good job in graphic design working for so many different kinds of companies it's amazing. It's a solid skill to fall back on or even open your own design studio, design for photographers... There are just so many things. 

Business in there somewhere!!!! If she does want to be a photographer she can get the education with the camera almost anywhere these days. A few GOOD, basic photography classes will launch her into the ability to learn the rest either from other photographers as mentors, books, seminars, webinars... As long as she has good basic camera skills. 

Most photographers, however are self employed. As well as many private tutors, graphic designers... Which makes these fields more about running a business than anything else. A photographer with mediocre skills can succeed wildly if they are a good business person. An outstanding photographer can fail miserably if they have no business sense.


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## CCericola (Dec 9, 2011)

Just a few things to think about:

As you know the graphic design field is VERY saturated. The same people with 5+ years of experience are vying for the same jobs as those fresh out of college. Without a degree she will be edged out by people who have better credentials. Despite what some people say it is NOT all about the portfolio. 

The reality of design is it is a dog eat dog career and backstabbing to get recognized by the art/creative director can be brutal especially in advertizing. Also, if she does go into graphic design you are going to have to leave any "but I'm an ARTIST" attitudes at the door. At the end of the day, if a client wants pink comic sans on their brochure, you give them pink, comic sans. 

Digital design and web design education is going to have to be a must. Today's designer is expected to wear many hats. The days of "I'm just a print designer" are pretty much over. 

Intern, intern, intern, While she is is college whether it be design or photography it can be all about who you know. Intern as much as possible even freshmen year where you might not get college credit. Trust me, it is the best thing I ever did. I have never been without some kind of income whether it be a full time job for Freelance projects given to me by contacts and friends from Internships.

Things don't always go the way we plan in high school. You know that. My father has a degree from Juliard but now works for the Dept of Defense as a programmer. Anything can happen.


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## imagemaker46 (Dec 9, 2011)

It's a tough choice to make at a young age, I have three boys that wrestled with which avenues of career to follow, and none of them went way I did, which is photography. One is working full time retail and doing very well, the other two start university next year.

The downside to going into the arts is that as the world has changed in the past 10 years so has the market for photography/graphics, more is being done in small home based operations, companies that used to have in-house graphics have done away with them, and the market has become over-saturated with highly skilled unemployed photographers and graphic designers.  I believe that photography will change again in the next few years and video will become the "new" photography, as cameras get better frame grabbing will be all that is required, it has been slowly changing in that direction for years now.  I would suggest that your daughter look into the video side as well.  

She sounds like a very talented girl, I would hope that she continues with music, it too would work within the video field.  Good luck with it all, difficult choices in such changing times


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## Big Mike (Dec 9, 2011)

> Business in there somewhere!!!! If she does want to be a photographer she can get the education with the camera almost anywhere these days. A few GOOD, basic photography classes will launch her into the ability to learn the rest either from other photographers as mentors, books, seminars, webinars... As long as she has good basic camera skills.
> 
> Most photographers, however are self employed. As well as many private tutors, graphic designers... Which makes these fields more about running a business than anything else. A photographer with mediocre skills can succeed wildly if they are a good business person. An outstanding photographer can fail miserably if they have no business sense.


This is pretty much what I was going to say.

With most of the options/interests that you mentioned, she could easily be in business for herself...and if that's the case, good business skills may be more important that good photography/design skills.  So if she has a good base of business knowledge, she would likely be more free to pursue the path that calls to her.  And as a business owner yourself, you could help her along the way, and she would probably be able to help your business as well.  

And, in the (hopefully unlikely) scenario that an artistic career path isn't for her...a business education would be something to fall back on.


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## tirediron (Dec 9, 2011)

Photographer, designer, tomato, tomato...  let her grow up, develop and see how interests mature.  I don't think one is better than the other.  There are very successful workers in both fields, but there are even more unsuccesful ones and regardless of which route she goes, it's going to be a hard row to hoe.  Best of luck to her.


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## brian_f2.8 (Dec 9, 2011)

Become an art/tech teacher and enjoy side work.


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## Todd_Reichman (Dec 9, 2011)

As a professional photographer and a former college career-planning-mentor I would highly suggest that she follow whatever she is most interested in and be as specific and specialized as possible.  Very few of us end up doing exactly what we majored in.  The few that do tend to be the lucky ones that find their calling early (which we can't plan on knowing yet) and those that are very specific and marketable.  My experience helping college seniors find jobs was that any combination of specialty and field made a student infinitely more attractive as a candidate than a generalist.  A double-major is huge for this.

The more disparate the double-major the better.  For instance, an art and finance double major will find a job fast.  There are artistic-based companies that need money-people and financial companies that need aesthetically minded people.  Aligning a skill with an industry makes it so much easier to stand out and be perfect for a particular company.  That's my best advice from inside the trenches.  

- trr

&#8230;a Man to Fish&#8230;


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## naptime (Dec 9, 2011)

thanks for all the input everyone..

the general consensus is pretty much how i feel as well. and her to the extent that a 16 year old can. 

she's much more mature than many kids her age. and while i may be just a proud dad, i like to think some of it has to do with my back in the military, and owning my own businesses. she has a good work ethic, a strong desire to lead and to learn. 

ultimately, she wants to have her own business, just as myself. but she wants to get real world experience before hand.  if that makes sense.

college is a definitely. as far as graphics are concerned... she likes digital graphic design.. designing logo's, helping me to layout t-shirt designs, she loves editing photo's, and of course, she likes taking photos. she doesn't want to be tied to one skill, nor would i want her to. i completely understand what you guys are saying in regards to diversification. and yes, i have discussed with her the importance of business classes as well. and we have made sure that the colleges she is looking at, offer everything that she needs, ie: design, photography, business, math, art history, etc...

that's part of the reason she is wishy washy on what kind of graphics arts she wants to purse, and what type of photography she wants to pursue. she knows she wants to go in this direction. but when asked by a friend, that is a photography instructor at the university, whether she wanted to shoot landscape, or portraits, or animals, etc... she said, "i don't know yet. i don't even have my camera yet. i want to shoot it all." his response..* "you HAVE to know, they are all different forms of photography, and you have to make up your mind. you can't just shoot everything."

*i disagree. i understand where he is coming from with that statement... but, as a sophomore in high school, who is just sparking her interest in photography, i think it's entirely unrealistic to expect her to narrow down exactly what type of photographer she wants to be. before even learning what aperture, f-stop, and ISO mean.

most people we talk to, that are not in the industries, ie: friends and family, are all shocked that i don't want her to skip college and just take over the reigns for me. well, she has worked for me since she was 11. she started out in the pizza shop, and when we sold it, she was eager to help out in the silk screen shop. she loves everything we do out in the shop. and while i would love for my daughter to run the business with me, and i truly love the idea of an in-house graphics artist.... i want her to do what SHE wants to do. not what i want her to do.

sure i guide her, and help her make decisions.. but ultimately, they are her decision. i have always detested parents that force their kids down a specific path. that's just not me. can't do it. she needs to find her own pat. i can simply help her understand the many that are in front of her.

at this point i'm rambling. so i'll shut up..

thanks everyone for your input. i look forward to Christmas so her and i can start shooting and posting our pics.


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## bazooka (Dec 9, 2011)

Keep in mind I do this as a hobby, but when I started two years ago, I wanted to shoot landscape.  But as I actually started learning about photography, that desire broadened quite a bit.  I never though I would enjoy doing portraits, but I do now.  I think that once she starts learning about photography and experiments with different subject matter, she'll find things that she like to shoot, and things that she doesn't.  She's a Sophomore in high school.  There are Sophomore's in college that don't know what they want to do yet....


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## naptime (Dec 9, 2011)

thank you. exactly why i was furious with my friend.

how can she know what she wants to study.. when she doesnt even have a camera yet.

the extent of her photo taking is with our point & shoot on vacation...

wait... forgive me... yes she has taken some of those... but the MAJORITY of her photo taking, has been in the bathroom mirror with her cell phone, for facebook. :er: i will never understand the fascination with the facebook duckface self portrait!!


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## skieur (Dec 9, 2011)

In a period of difficulty getting a job, it is useful to have more than one skill and more than one set of creditionals.  A classical university degree provides literacy, research, and writing skills which are important in many companies and organizations.  Media and communication skills are inter-related so literacy and technical skills are both important for success.

skieur


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## Josh66 (Dec 9, 2011)

I am neither a pro photographer or designer, so take that into account - but I would say design probably has the better paycheck starting out.  Once you're established?  I don't know.  



naptime said:


> I am finally doing something I love to do, and have always wanted to do. and supporting my family at the same time, while bringing in more money than I did working for ibm or while owning a pizza shop.


That's pretty cool.  I wonder though, if you would still be able to say that without all of the experiences that led up to it...  Just something to think about.


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## naptime (Dec 10, 2011)

O|||||||O said:


> I am neither a pro photographer or designer, so take that into account - but I would say design probably has the better paycheck starting out.  Once you're established?  I don't know.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i doubt it.

i firmly believe i NEEDED every experience i have had, to put me where i am today.

and every path i have gone down, has given me some valuable experience that has been used on the next path.


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## vfotog (Dec 10, 2011)

naptime said:


> thank you. exactly why i was furious with my friend.
> 
> how can she know what she wants to study.. when she doesnt even have a camera yet.
> 
> ...



Photographer, artist and mother here....   I REALLY think you are both jumping the gun to be talking about photography as a career when she hasn't even been doing any shooting yet. Until she's spent some substantial time doing it, you don't know whether she will really enjoy it or even have an aptitude for it. It's not like you pick up a camera and you are instantly have professional skills. Your friend is not off the mark. Different types of photography involved different skill sets, and many of them don't overlap. Product photography is very different from wedding photography which is different from sports photography, etc etc How you find work in those areas varies too, so it's good to know where her interest really is and what she is suited for. Even talking about photography as a career before having any photo experience or skills is definitely putting the cart before the horse. Photography as a career is changing and becoming less profitable; it's something that you really have to love if you take it up because it's just not the profession to take up if you want to make a lot of money. With cameras so smart, everyone is a photographer and the demand is way down. If it's not her passion, it's probably not the best choice. But since she's not even shooting yet, she needs to learn to crawl, then stand, then walk before she can run. Graphic design is more practical, but she has to love computers. Does she? I do agree that some business classes will be beneficial. But doing well in high school will get her into a good college, and that is everything. With any of the arts, you have to have the passion because it's just not the most practical and financially rewarding of fields, no matter your specialty. As for music, even that is like photography or design. What is it that she actually likes about music? Is it the performing? or something else? The most practical area would be to go into music education but music is so highly competitive and education is too. Education budgets have been slashed, but people that love to teach find it rewarding in ways other than monetarily. You're not likely to have any answers to these questions until she actually gets her feet wet in these skills and finds what she actually enjoys and has an aptitude for; if she doesn't love it and have a real passion for it, it's hard to imagine having the drive to succeed against pretty serious odds.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Dec 10, 2011)

So many students look at going into saturated markets. Art and design, eh? Have her take a jewelry/metals class. There is great money to be had as a jeweler, especially with design, CAD, and even photography skills. There are a ton of bench workers (read: lackies with no design or creative talent), but creative jewelers are hard to find.

I was going the graphic design route, and took one metals class and I was hooked. 25 years later, I have my own successful business, and never took a business class.

College is for experimentation, and exploration. Food for though.


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## naptime (Dec 10, 2011)

vfotog said:


> naptime said:
> 
> 
> > thank you. exactly why i was furious with my friend.
> ...



maybe you missed some of my other posts ?

we are not jumping the gun. she IS going to art school. yes she is tech savvy. and she has been taking art classes both in public school, and privately, for about 3 years now. she has gone to several different art schools, she knows she is going to art school. 

we also went with film cameras for our beginning cameras, because we dont know if she will be interested in photography once she starts learnign all there is to know about shooting. it may completley turn her off and she wont be interested (i've talked about that at length in some different threads) the film cameras are to get her feet wet and see if she wants to continue. if she does, then i will spend the money to switch to digital.

but TALKING about it now... yes, its abosolutely the right time to talk about it. she HAS to talk about it now, so that next years classes are tailored to what she wants to do moving forward. that can change. but it still needs to be discussed.

the fact is, she is going to art school. in those art schools she will be REQUIRED to take at least a semester of photography.


our discussion the other night, nor the discussion here is about whether or not she will become a professional photographer.. it was about, which careers offer better stability. 

if i sound defensive i apologize. it's not my attention.. i think we actually agree on most everything you said.. but i disagree that it shouldn't be talked about yet. she has to take photography whether she wants to or not. just like she has to take math. and art history.  and she has an interest in photography anyway. 

she doesnt have the option to wait until the end of the school year to determine what to do next year.. she has to discuss next years classes with her counselor NOW.  

we aren't planning the next 10 years yet.... just looking at all of the available OPTIONS 

thank you for your input. it IS appreciated.

btw: school. check. she's in all honors classes. dean's list. class vice president. 

music... i couldnt really nail down what she loves so much about music. she loves to play. she loves to perform. she loves to practice. she loves the opportunities it has brought her, and the travels it has taken her on. during the christmas season, and in the summer months, when orchestras are on break, she, and three other friends contact area nursing homes and hospices, and they go perform hour long mini concerts for the residents. at the hospices, occasionally they go room to room for the famlies that request it.

she had thought about a career as a music teacher last year.. then everyone thats a role model in music for her, suggested it was not a good idea as a primary career.  and then public schooling started getting major budget cuts.. next year, it looks like NONE of our public schools will have ANY music classes of any sort. that was the nail in the coffin. but she still has aspirations of private teaching like her teacher does, from her home, on her days off.


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## naptime (Dec 10, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> So many students look at going into saturated markets. Art and design, eh? Have her take a jewelry/metals class. There is great money to be had as a jeweler, especially with design, CAD, and even photography skills. There are a ton of bench workers (read: lackies with no design or creative talent), but creative jewelers are hard to find.
> 
> I was going the graphic design route, and took one metals class and I was hooked. 25 years later, I have my own successful business, and never took a business class.
> 
> College is for experimentation, and exploration. Food for though.



not even offered 

the closest we have to a metals class is automotive repair.

they even took away the electronics technician class and the culinary arts class.


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## nickzou (Dec 10, 2011)

CCericola said:


> As you know the graphic design field is VERY saturated. The same people with 5+ years of experience are vying for the same jobs as those fresh out of college. Without a degree she will be edged out by people who have better credentials. Despite what some people say it is NOT all about the portfolio.



This this this! I see a lot of posts here complaining about people buying their first DSLRs and becoming "pros" overnight. How much easier (or harder to truly break into the business) do you guys think Graphic Design is? Torrent Photoshop, Illustrator, and InDesign, browse through a few magazines to see what the current trends are, learn the rules (and there are some pretty strict rules, which actually makes it pretty easy), post an ad on kijiji and boom you're in business. And ANYONE can do this. I've been thinking about photography as a career for about a year now, but I haven't really gotten down to it. I mean I've been putting together my costs and setting up my business plan and working with other pros to see what it is like. None of that experience is really necessary in Graphic Design, it's okay to just jump head in, with little experience, basically no-start up and turn up profit. You may make mistakes along the way due to inexperience in the business aspect but with little to no start up cost, you can afford to make mistakes.

Obviously, if they are serious about it, the start up costs start to build, actually licensing the software and renting an office and stuff like that, but at that point you can have a pretty nice professional portfolio with several local companies who LOVE you. And you may already have a decent wad of cash from the early days at this point. With my start up costs for a photography business estimated at around 10 000 dollars... I can't just decide to start being a "pro" photographer tomorrow. But anyone who decides to download some design software can, regardless of skill.

And the thing about design is that if you're willing to in a little bit of time into actually learning, you can become an amazing designer in a few months. The Elements of Principles of Design, Colour Theory, Theory and Practices of Print and Web Design, are all well established and the MAJORITY of clients aren't looking for something avante-garde, just of the popular trend and designing something that represents something sleek and modern can be done with your eyes closed as long as you have the understanding of how the software works and those aforementioned knowledge. There's little room to make mistakes because any question about "good design" can be answered by referring to your elements and principles. With photography, it seems very wishy-washy as to what's a good photo, what's not. Sure, there's the rules of composition, but they by no means seem to be concrete. The way I try to learn any form of art is to look at its history, find its trends and hallmark artists and see what they've done to define the art form. I get criticized here a lot because I have a tendency to crop very loose, often leaving 2/3rds of the image as the background and only 1/3rd the subject. I partly get that from the rule of thirds and Fibonacci (Golden Ratio) concepts I've picked up from my earlier design knowledge, but a lot of it is me trying to imitate masters like Cartier Bresson and Robert Frank. A lot of their images are cropped (well not cropped, but composed) loosely, with the background being more prevalent to than the subject (at least in terms of sheer space taken up in a photo). So I've come to the conclusion that photography doesn't have the strict set of rules that govern its success like design. Sure, you can post an image for C&C but not every bit of advice can be taken at face value where as if a graphic designer is criticizing your work, you can be sure if he's knowledgeable about design theory you can't really afford to not listen to him/her.

I mean, even if you are not sure about your colour choices on a website you are designing, and you need to really nail the colour selection, you can head over to Adobe Kuler just to confirm that the colours you picked do not break Colour Theory so designers don't even really have to think about that anymore. It is almost an automated process at this point and anyone can do it (well almost anyone). To be good and for clients (especially clients who don't actually know design) to see you as "good" is really REALLY hard in graphic design right now, because even the newest greenest graphic designer straight out of high school who has even the least bit of interest in being a serious graphic designer, is at least decent.

Okay this was long. But as a experienced graphic designer, I can tell you that the graphic design market is way more saturated than photography.  Bottom line is that you at least need a good camera to even think about going pro but with graphic design, you basically need... nothing. All this is to say... graphic design, not as easy as photographers think.


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## usayit (Dec 10, 2011)

Whatever the study, I would certainly check typical recent grad salaries and job prospects prior to investing in such a path....

I have met so many with such substantial educational debt that they have very little hope of paying off in their early part of their lives and easily impacts all the way into retirement.

Its sad that one must weigh in interests against investment BUT its simply reality now.


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## naptime (Dec 10, 2011)

thanks for all of your input 


the investment is null. college is covered. whatever path she ultimately decides on. it's already covered.

but, obviously we aren't interested in wasting it on a path she wont follow afterwards.

no point is going to art school, and then becoming an accountant or a fry cook at applebees.


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## usayit (Dec 10, 2011)

That's great! What a great opportunity with one less worry.

I would personally still double major as someone already mentioned.  It took me 6 years but I managed all the way without loans and purchased my home (before the insane prices) right out of college.  This was just before everything went down the toilet including my field.... computer engineering which is essentally CS with EE.  If I had substantial debt, the house would have not been an option and debt would have sunk me during unemployment.  If I were to do it all again, I would have done major in computer science with a minor in business instead.  As per a previous comment....  double major in separate areas of study opens a lot more doors including ones that allow you the opportunity to pursue your true interests.


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## skieur (Dec 10, 2011)

naptime said:


> thanks for all of your input
> 
> 
> the investment is null. college is covered. whatever path she ultimately decides on. it's already covered.
> ...



I was not greatly impressed by art schools.  

skieur


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## skieur (Dec 13, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> College is for experimentation, and exploration. Food for though.



College is for literacy, research and writing skills, which are necessary if you are working for a company rather than on your own and want to move up into the administrative higher salary categories.

skieur


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## Bitter Jeweler (Dec 13, 2011)

skieur said:


> Bitter Jeweler said:
> 
> 
> > College is for experimentation, and exploration. Food for though.
> ...


You should have gained those in high school. :roll:


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## spacefuzz (Dec 13, 2011)

I would tell her to do what she loves best, because if she loves it she will be willing to put in all of the grueling work required to succeed.  I think some of the best advice you could give is to work hard, its going to be hard, and keep at it until you succeed.


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## c.cloudwalker (Dec 13, 2011)

Unless you can read the future, don't even try to.

I'm in Europe so things can be a bit different but I doubt it is that much different because Europe follows US trends pretty closely. And this is what I see: a bunch of kids today who were told to go into conputer repairs who can't get a job because they cranked out the computer repair people so much, there are too many of them...

The new thing today is graphic design. They're sending everyone down that pipeline and tomorrow we will have way too many graphic designers with no sense of design...

Your daughter is young enough. Let her be. Keep an eye on what's going on but don't force it on her.

You may not like it but she needs to make her own mistakes. Live with it.


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## DiskoJoe (Dec 13, 2011)

There is nothing wrong with being a music teacher but it does not pay much and even some of the best do not make it to the professional symphony level for major cities. Being a pro photographer would be much harder then becoming a professional designer. Design can be adapted to many different genres of business very easily. but photography can be a major part of this trade and as such knowing how to use a camera will lower costs and open better opportunities. 

Also know she can do both right?


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## DiskoJoe (Dec 13, 2011)

c.cloudwalker said:


> Unless you can read the future, don't even try to.
> 
> I'm in Europe so things can be a bit different but I doubt it is that much different because Europe follows US trends pretty closely. And this is what I see: a bunch of kids today who were told to go into conputer repairs who can't get a job because they cranked out the computer repair people so much, there are too many of them...
> 
> ...



Teach her to be a stone mason.


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## naptime (Dec 14, 2011)

c.cloudwalker said:


> Unless you can read the future, don't even try to.
> 
> I'm in Europe so things can be a bit different but I doubt it is that much different because Europe follows US trends pretty closely. And this is what I see: a bunch of kids today who were told to go into conputer repairs who can't get a job because they cranked out the computer repair people so much, there are too many of them...
> 
> ...



you must have missed where i said she is asking me the questions?

i do not force my daughter down any path. 

she chooses what she would like to do, and i support and encourage her in her descisions.

i give her input. positive and negative.

she asked me about photography versus design. i am in neither field, i didnt have an educated answer so i asked here. as well as asking the several phoographer, and graphic design friends and family members that i have.


to assume that i am forcing something on her, or that i dont like the mistakes she makes, is a silly and unfounded assumption.


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## c.cloudwalker (Dec 14, 2011)

This was not really meant for you, more so for those/anyone who think a kid your daughter's age should already choose a direction.

Badly written I guess...


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## skieur (Dec 14, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> skieur said:
> 
> 
> > Bitter Jeweler said:
> ...



Having read some of the posts here, supervised media staff, and having taught university, that has NOT happened. High school grads are still lacking in basic literacy, research and writing skills.

skieur


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## skieur (Dec 14, 2011)

DiskoJoe said:


> c.cloudwalker said:
> 
> 
> > Unless you can read the future, don't even try to.
> ...



Not a bad idea! I paid a stone mason $12,000 for about 2 weeks labour and stones/bricks etc. and that was at a cheap rate.

skieur


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## skieur (Dec 16, 2011)

O|||||||O said:


> I am neither a pro photographer or designer, so take that into account - but I would say design probably has the better paycheck starting out. Once you're established? I don't know. .



Actually the best paycheck starting out is probably in television. I know a high school student (not graduate) who from a work program got offered $60,000 to start immediately as a television editor.

skieur


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