# Pilot 6 by KW



## Dany (Nov 5, 2017)

I found this cubic thing marked Pilot 6 in France in a trade faire dedicated to vintage cameras.
It was in very bad condition and it took me some time to refresh it.
It is German and was released between 1936 and 1938 by KW (Kamera Werkstätten).
Such a short period of production makes it quite difficult to find, even in Europe. 
But this small box is not ....a box camera. It may be considered as a landmark in the camera history for being one of the early ancestors of the "modern" 6x6 cm SLR.
Inside a compact body is a very special mirror/shutter combination system which moves when triggered with a loud noise (which reminds me the happy days when I could torture an Hasselblad in a photo studio)
It bears on the side a lead seal hanging on a wire and stamped by the Belgian customs which proves that the device was imported legally
It uses 120 films, Is equipped with a waist level finder and a wire frame sport finder on the side
Admittedly, The aesthetics of this device is questionable but I find it endearing.
In 1938, KW proposed an enhanced version of the Pilot 6 with interchangeable lens and a better shutter. I hope I will find one copy of this version in the future.


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## jcdeboever (Nov 5, 2017)

Very cool. You must have a huge collection. Did you restore it enough to take pictures?


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## Dany (Nov 5, 2017)

The Pilot 6 could work normally I suppose. The shutter fires normally and nothing seems broken.
Most of my cameras are in good working condition but I must admit that I have not enough available time to use them.
Some of them are so old and brittle that I will not test them.
Added to this, a growing ecologic concern makes me hesitant to throw to the drain various chemical products that I normally used in the past for the films and print processing operations.


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## dxqcanada (Nov 7, 2017)

Yup, that is a cool camera.
I really gotta go to Europe and get this stuff before you grab it. I just got some "new" cameras, but not as awesome as yours


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## Dean_Gretsch (Nov 7, 2017)

Great post! I like the original advertisement best of all that shows the ridiculous price of $30 for the deluxe camera+ lens. It would be a pleasure to see photos taken with this camera if you are comfortable doing it.


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## Derrel (Nov 7, 2017)

It states that it shoots a rectangular aspect ratio image. Does it shoot a "wide" image in normal orientation at waist level, or a "tall" image?

Really NEAT to read the original advertisement for this beautiful vintage camera!


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## compur (Nov 7, 2017)

There were 2 version of this camera. One shot 6x6 format and the other was 6X4.5.


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## Dany (Nov 8, 2017)

Derrel said:


> It states that it shoots a rectangular aspect ratio image. Does it shoot a "wide" image in normal orientation at waist level, or a "tall" image?
> 
> Really NEAT to read the original advertisement for this beautiful vintage camera!



The image on the waist level viewfinder is square as the négative obtained (I hope I understood your point Derrel because the way I understand and write English is rather ...chaotic)

Obviously, the 30 dollars required to buy this camera meant more in 1937 than today


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## Dany (Nov 8, 2017)

compur said:


> There were 2 version of this camera. One shot 6x6 format and the other was 6X4.5.



IN fact there were two variations with different format
- The "Pilot Reflex" able to take 3x4 cm pictures with 127 films
- The "Pilot Super" Which was a dual format camera  for 6x6 cm and 4,5x6 cm using mask and to be loaded with 120 films


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## jcdeboever (Nov 8, 2017)

Dany said:


> The Pilot 6 could work normally I suppose. The shutter fires normally and nothing seems broken.
> Most of my cameras are in good working condition but I must admit that I have not enough available time to use them.
> Some of them are so old and brittle that I will not test them.
> Added to this, a growing ecologic concern makes me hesitant to throw to the drain various chemical products that I normally used in the past for the films and print processing operations.



I never throw my chemicals down the drain. I pour them in a container and let them evaporate or burn them in the oven at work. Usually they evaporate fairly quick or at least in the summer, the winter months they get burned. I even capture two rinses prior to the flooding wash stage. May seem like an overkill but that's what I do.


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## jcdeboever (Nov 8, 2017)

Dany said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> > It states that it shoots a rectangular aspect ratio image. Does it shoot a "wide" image in normal orientation at waist level, or a "tall" image?
> ...



That's about $517.00 today


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## compur (Nov 8, 2017)

Dany said:


> compur said:
> 
> 
> > There were 2 version of this camera. One shot 6x6 format and the other was 6X4.5.
> ...



There were two versions of the Pilot 6, as I said, one for 6x6 and one for 645.
See:
Pilot 6


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## Dany (Nov 9, 2017)

The website you refer to is a fandom. 
The text describing the Pilot 6 is quite ambiguous . It starts clearly stating that the camera is a 6x6 format, followed by a sentence clearly indicating that two versions were released (6x6 and 4.5x6) and terminated by a note [1] indicating that 4.5x6 may be a mistake !
I never rely on fandoms to gather information for a camera from my collection. I prefer to collect true evidences like photos supported by source documents as manufacturer's catalog pages and advertisements of the time.
A 4.5x6 version of the pilot 6 may have existed but for the time being I could not find a clear evidence of its existence

http://www.collection-appareils.fr/x/html/page_standard_eng.php?id_appareil=20563


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## compur (Nov 9, 2017)

Dany said:


> A 4.5x6 version of the pilot 6 may have existed but for the time being I could not find a clear evidence of its existence



The "clear evidence" is in your original post! The advertisement you posted for the Pilot 6 says:

*"Pilot makes sixteen pictures, size 1-5/8 X 2-1/4 inches on standard economical 120 roll-film."*





*Sixteen exposures on 120 film sized at 1-5/8 X 2-1/4 inches = 6x4.5 format.*


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## Dany (Nov 9, 2017)

Many thanks Compur. Despite not being familiar with inches, I noticed this point on the ad.
I saw, in the past, many erroneous technical specifications in advertisements or catalogs and even, some ads announcing in advance new models which, for some commercial reason, were finally never released on the market.
As a consequence, an advertisement alone cannot be considered as a clear evidence but only as a support for searches.
I discussed this matter with Jim Mc Keown last year at the Bievres fair and he advised me to never believe information from websites and to be suspicious with advertisements.
A photo showing à Pilot 6 with the two red windows on the back would clear the doubt.
As soon as I find one, I will search to buy a copy of this variation


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## compur (Nov 9, 2017)

Dany said:


> A photo showing à Pilot 6 with the two red windows on the back would clear the doubt.



Look at this video. At around 9:00 a Pilot 6 camera is turned around to reveal ...
... 2 red windows on the back!


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## vintagesnaps (Nov 9, 2017)

That's a great camera. I have a KW, no other name, just KW. It's a square tin box covered in leatherette. Still has a usable level, the fluid is still liquid and hasn't hardened or leaked. It opens on the top (or side depending on which way you hold it). This one is really cool. 

I've used Sylvain's site even though much of it comes up in French (and my high school French only gets me so far) but the pictures show a lot of info. 

I didn't know McKeown was still around.


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## vintagesnaps (Nov 9, 2017)

Oh, the Reflex in that ad on Sylvain's site is the one I have! I'll have to do more looking on his site. 

In one of the ads from 1937 there's a Robot that looks just like the Reflex, says it's a 'reflecting camera', with all the advantages of a reflecting camera and a miniature. Guess that means it has a mirror? And there's a free trial! great! lol gee I guess that offer is no longer in effect, too bad!


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## Dany (Nov 10, 2017)

To Compur:
Fantastic!
This is the indubitable evidence that I was trying to find .
Thank you very much for the time spent and for your patience with the incorrigible skeptic I am.
This thread is very cool.

To Vntagesnaps:
I am glad you may find some information about your KW camera on the Sylvain Halgand's site
This site is really awesome. It describes in details thousands of vintage cameras + accesories etc...
Hundreds of new cameras are added each year through a participative system.
A great work has already been done to translate the pages into English, but this is a tremendous work. 
For the time being most of the pages discribing cameras from manufacturers with names from A to M are translated (Work based on volunteering).
For the rest, the proportion of translated pages is smaller. 
There is, on this site,  a very efficient search engine that allows you to identify a camera in finding the pages of catalogs related to a given camera .
Cherry on the cake, the site has a very active forum with a section dedicated to people not speaking French. Do not hesitate to participate
Welcome to Vintage cameras collection by Sylvain Halgand
Some news also about the Famous Mc Keowns guide:
I may say that the thirteen's edition to come of this guide shall be fantastic.
Based on a huge work during years, the volume of information and the number of cameras described  in this new edition shall be incredibly increased. 
The full content of this edition shall be available on line on the web to subscribing people.


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## compur (Nov 10, 2017)

You're welcome


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## IanG (Nov 13, 2017)

KW were quite an innovative company but with their change in ownership to Charles Noble in 1938 they moved largely to producing 35mm cameras.



Dany said:


> compur said:
> 
> 
> > There were 2 version of this camera. One shot 6x6 format and the other was 6X4.5.
> ...



I wouldn't call them variants as they are quite different models, and the Pilot Super is a significant improvement,. Nice find you don't see many these days.

Ian


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## Dany (Nov 13, 2017)

You are perfectly right Ian.
I should not say "variations" or "variants" but "others models from KW".
This comes from the chaos in my head when I try to speak and write in English instead of French


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## IanG (Nov 13, 2017)

Dany said:


> You are perfectly right Ian.
> I should not say "variations" or "variants" but "others models from KW".
> This comes from the chaos in my head when I try to speak and write in English instead of French



Your English is far better than my French 

If I was deliberately collecting cameras I think I'd choose KW as one brand to major on, I only have 3 two 9x12 Patent Etui's and an FX.

I seem to have gone for Houghton's, I own 2 or 3 Victo wood & brass cameras a Duchess, various Esignsn reflex through to post WWII Ensign Elfix 820, and enlarger, 3 safelights - one candle powered   I have everything for a 1904-1920 set up including a darkroom.

Ian


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## Dany (Nov 15, 2017)

Waoooh!
KW was inovative indeed.
I have some KW cameras in my collection.
Kamera Werstätten Patent Etui Luxus

I have only two Ensign cameras (because they are quite rare in France (and I do not buy on eBay). I shall show them in a future thread


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## IanG (Nov 15, 2017)

Dany said:


> Waoooh!
> KW was inovative indeed.
> I have some KW cameras in my collection.
> Kamera Werstätten Patent Etui Luxus
> ...



I replied to that thread   late  . . . . . . 

Actually it's very interesting the often quite large  differences between cameras in different parts of the world. It's more proounced with wood and brass, there's the British Field and TAilboard cameras, the European Reiskameras and  the US style field cameras aa cross between a UK TAilboard and the Reiskameras,

Then the big European move to Avus style cameras the Patent Etui being the nicest extreme in terms of looks, weight, size and pure functionality.

Looking forward to seeing your Ensigns 

Ian


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