# SE Asia - Impressions - Phnom Penh, Cambodia



## Iron Flatline (Mar 29, 2008)

NOTE: Several images added much further down the thread.

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Hi all. 

This will be the first of several threads over the next few weeks. I just spent several weeks entirely by myself (no wife, no kids) moving around South East Asia. Just me, and some cameras. 

Parts of it was quite exciting, but Phnom Penh, and Cambodia in general, was actually quite depressing.

First, some context:


> A pawn in the cynical game of geopolitics, Cambodia was dragged into a war it initially didn't belong to, by being carpet-bombed into submission by the US because the Khmer king let the Viet Cong use Cambodia as a supply route. After the US withdrawal from the region, it was left stunned and bloodless by the second-largest genocide of the 20th century: an estimated 1,7 million people died during the 3 years, 8 months and 20 days of the Khmer Rouge regime. They killed anyone who had any education at all - or just looked like it (wearing glasses, for instance). The K.R. outlawed all currency, all books, all calendars and watches. The farming "old people" under Pol Pot forced the urban "new people" in the cities to evacuate within a few days, and worked them to death in the fields. Finally Cambodia was liberated/occupied by Vietnam for ten years and was ostracized by the West for it. After the 1991 Paris Peace Accords it was kept breathless by a civil war which lingered on until 1998 and by political unrest, and killed hundreds of thousands more. Today it still has a heavy price to pay for its reconstruction in a ruthless market economy where literally everything, from governmental property to human dignity, seems to be for sale (Cambodia is ranked nr 151 out of 163 on the level of corruption according to Berlin based Transparency International). The countryside remains littered with small land mines, and the number of limbless people is incomparable to any other conflict.


Cambodia is not a happy place. One of the things that happened is that the Khmer Rouge forcibly married people to one another, and then forced them to have children. Many of those children are living homeless in capital city, Phnom Penh. 

I have some friends in the various places I visited (mainly working as part of cultural exchange NGOs and one focused on the KR Trials). One of them explained to me why this young girl is wearing lipstick and nail polish. The obvious answer is enough to depress you for a long time...








Another homeless child, with another child







Nudity and shoeless feet do not necessarily mean homelessness though. At Wat Phnom, a small but important Wat in the middle of town, there were lots of kids playing, their parents not far away.







The a young girl selling snacks to packed travelers crowded into a minivan. Yes, those are fried bugs... and though I'll eat just about anything, I found those to be simply kind of bitter. 







... and if you need gas for your scooter, there's a station at every corner...


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## schumionbike (Mar 29, 2008)

Thanks for the series, the first shot is truly depressing.  I never seen gasoline being sold like that before either.  That's also depressing.


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## Trenton Romulox (Mar 30, 2008)

I don't find the shots depressing, it's just their way of life. To them, that's normal, right? It's only bad if there's something to compare it to, and if they don't have another life to compare it to, then their life is okay for them. 

Very nice series, the last shot is my favorite.


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## KOrmechea (Mar 30, 2008)

I feel like I should respond to this, but I'm not really sure what to say...

Some strong people live in South East Asia (and other parts of the world).  I don't know if I could do it.  Seeing stuff like this reminds you how lucky you actually are.


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## Iron Flatline (Mar 30, 2008)

No, TR, that's a very common misperception, and a certain form of denial... at least it was for me. I always thought "well, they don't know what they're missing..." - But they do. Everyone there has TV, and for some odd reason they all watch things like E Entertainment and US Reality Shows.

... and no one wants to live like those girls, on the street with babies, without a place to wash, access to health care, or protection from predators.


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## schumionbike (Mar 30, 2008)

Trenton Romulox said:


> I don't find the shots depressing, it's just their way of life. To them, that's normal, right? It's only bad if there's something to compare it to, and if they don't have another life to compare it to, then their life is okay for them.
> 
> Very nice series, the last shot is my favorite.


 

Hey man, I have to disagree with you here. 

First off, I think there are somethings that I considered universally wrong. Murder is a good example, you can't go shoot some innocent person and then say that is your way of life and normal therefore it's okay. In the first picture, such a young girl who is force to live on the street and force into prostitution at such a young age due the economic problems should be considered universally wrong and the problem need to be adress. I understand that different cultural have different norms and a lot of things are just the matter of preferences and opinions, one prime example is the way people get marry in different cultures. However, that's not the case here.


Second, homeless kids walking around and force into prostitution is not normal in Asian societies as you seem to assert. These people don't have a preference for being poor and have their children on the streets and these conditions are not acceptable to them either but sometimes, there isn't much of a choice. The first picture would have depress them too. 

Eating fried bugs might be normal and culturally acceptable or even prefer and definitely not considered to be universally wrong!! That picture wasn't depressing though =)

The last shot with the gasoline being sold like that show that the country is very low tech and probably not by choice but due to the economy after generation of wars.


Just my 2 cents.


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## Iron Flatline (Mar 31, 2008)

Some of the same kids, the older ones playing cards in an alley just off the river where the tourists come to drink.


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## Iron Flatline (Mar 31, 2008)

This one is a little out of context, in the sense that it is not part of the Phnom Penh series. But it's also a kid, in this case a boy on the road to Chong Kneas in northern Cambodia.


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## rob91 (Mar 31, 2008)

Trenton Romulox said:


> I don't find the shots depressing, it's just their way of life. To them, that's normal, right? It's only bad if there's something to compare it to, and if they don't have another life to compare it to, then their life is okay for them.
> 
> Very nice series, the last shot is my favorite.



I suppose starving your whole life is only a bad thing if you've ever known a full stomach.

Iron, the first shot strikes me the most, her expression is so strong and it really gets me. Good series.


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## Steph (Apr 1, 2008)

I really like this series. I think you did a very good job at giving us an idea of what life is like on the streets of Phnom Penh. I went to Cambodia about 13 years ago; what depressed me in your pictures is to see that not much seems to have changed: children on the streets, child prostitution... are still present. 

What else did you see in Cambodia? Did you have a chance to go to Angkor Vat? Apparently it is an amazing place. 

I am looking forward to seeing more of your pictures.


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## The_Traveler (Apr 1, 2008)

schumionbike said:


> I never seen gasoline being sold like that before either.  That's also depressing.



This is not depressing but just a societal difference. Motorscooters need gas by the liter so there is no need for the huge expense of in-ground tanks and pumps. This way gas can be distributed to places where tanker trucks would never reach. A 'store' in a town reachable only by dirt roads might sell 20 liters of gas a day, do a service and make a profit.


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## schumionbike (Apr 1, 2008)

The_Traveler said:


> This is not depressing but just a societal difference. Motorscooters need gas by the liter so there is no need for the huge expense of in-ground tanks and pumps. This way gas can be distributed to places where tanker trucks would never reach. A 'store' in a town reachable only by dirt roads might sell 20 liters of gas a day, do a service and make a profit.


 

I understand that motor scooter don't need a lot of gas, however, when I was Vietnam over 10 years ago, there were filling stations like they have in the U.S, a bit more rusty but it's along the same line.  I guess for me, a gas station mean modernization.  A gas station like this to me mean people know of life in the modern world, want to modernize, but can't due to their economic conditions.  Poverty is the word that come to my mind when I see that picture.


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## Iron Flatline (Apr 1, 2008)

Yup, it's actually a sensible distribution system. The only problem is that people are definitely smoking around it, and you have to assume there's an occasional accident.


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## Iron Flatline (Apr 1, 2008)

schumionbike said:


> I understand that motor scooter don't need a lot of gas, however, when I was Vietnam over 10 years ago, there were filling stations like they have in the U.S, a bit more rusty but it's along the same line.  I guess for me, a gas station mean modernization.  A gas station like this to me mean people know of life in the modern world, want to modernize, but can't due to their economic conditions.  Poverty is the word that come to my mind when I see that picture.


I agree though, there is definitely a side to this tied to poverty. You DON'T see this in Saigon on Bangkok or other SE Asian cities. Possibly out in the countryside, but not in the city. There is one beautiful totally modern filling station on one of the main intersections of Phnom Penh that just opened up, and people are crowded around it like it will somehow reflect modernity on them. Esp. the women prefer getting gas there... it's well lit, and clean.


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## The_Traveler (Apr 1, 2008)

There is also the fact that the number of cars/trucks is relatively small in rural SEA and thus the need to fill up large tanks is small. It just makes sense that, if your customer base requires 2 liter fill-ups that there is no incentive to 
build the infrastructure.  

Thailand is the most advanced, followed by  Vietnam and trailed by  Laos, Cambodia and Myanmar.  There are only 2000 miles of paved roads in all of Laos. Most of those miles are in Vientianne, at the border near Nong Khia (Thailand) and at the border with China in the North.


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## schumionbike (Apr 1, 2008)

I am not disputing the fact that it is a sensible system of distribution given the conditions.  The conditions of not having paved road as you guys have mentioned, and lacked of motorize transportation (thus not need a lot of gas) and required such a distribution system is what I find depressing.  I'm assuming that these conditions exist not because of choices they made or because they are oblivious to the choices they have, but these conditions is force on them due to poverty.


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## Antithesis (Apr 2, 2008)

I just flew home from Phnom Pehn airport like the day before yesterday, and these pictures do sum up the Khmer people's way of life pretty well. I wouldn't say the people were under-fed or unhappy, it's just a different culture then the West. It is still a relatively broken country though. 

The thing that is really sad in Cambodia is that they just got over a genocide that killed 1.5 million people in the end of the 1970's, and there is still evidence of the violence in most of the cities. The reason Phnom Pehn is still so underdeveloped compared to other cities in Asia is a direct result of the genocide. It's called the Pol Pet (spelling might be off) genocide, there are books about it in every Cambodian bookstore, and certainly at the Killing Fields. (edit: just read your full genocide story. I didn't know about the forced marriages)

Iron Flatline: if your still in Cambodia, I'd suggest checking out Sihounakville and Bamboo Island just off the coast, it was amazing. Siem Reap and the temples of Angkor are obviously amazing as well, especially if you have a decent camera with you.


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## Steph (Apr 2, 2008)

Antithesis said:


> t's called the Pol Pet (spelling might be off) genocide.



Surely you mean *Pol Pot*, after the name of the prime minister/dictator of Cambodia from 1976 to 1979, who was responsible for the genocide.


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## Iron Flatline (Apr 2, 2008)

Actually, he means the Khmer Rouge, led by Lon Nol and Pol Pot. 

No, I'm back in Europe. Didn't get the chance to go up to the coast, but will be going back soon, I'm sure. 

Read my summery of the country's history within my initial post. Weird thing is that most people don't even realize what happened there, or you get responses like Trenton Rolumox's post that just kind of summarize consumer ignorance (no real fear of him coming back to this thread, he just posts and runs.)


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## The_Traveler (Apr 2, 2008)

The classic film about the Cambodian Holocaust is 'The Killing Fields" http://imdb.com/title/tt0087553/.  The hero of this film was a Cambodian reporter, Dith Pran, who survived the death camps and eventually made his way to the refugee camps across the Thai border. He was sponsored out of the camps  to the US by his friend, Sidney Schaumberg, another journalist and spent the rest of his life working as a photographer for the NY Times. 

Just this last week he died of cancer. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23867336/

For an illuminating view of view of how the Khmer Rouge worked, read 'The Lost Executioner' by Nick Dunlop. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23867336/


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## SBlanca (Apr 7, 2008)

hey flatline, saw some of these photos on your blog and forgot to comment on them...AMAZING love them, wish i could do this kind of thing some day


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## Los Angeles (Apr 8, 2008)

Iron...  Your photography is amazing...  Not just technically but you get out there and shoot stuff that is really important...  you bring back images that make people think...  well done.


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## skier66 (Apr 8, 2008)

Thanks for sharing.


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## Iron Flatline (Apr 8, 2008)

Hey, thank you all very much, I really appreciate the compliments.

Here's a few more:

A Tuk-Tuk full of orphans, all of them in a fantastic mood. I have several shots of these kids, they were obviously a closely-knit bunch. As I explained earlier, the number of orphans in Cambodia is extremely high, as is typical for any society following a war and genocide. 








Two kids playing in front of their house. I had no one to translate, but within context this struck me simply as a big brother taking his little sister out for a push. That is not a stroller, the roads there wouldn't allow it. I think it's just a toy for them. 







A boy playing by himself at a river bank. It's toward the end of the dry season now (April) so the rivers and lakes are low. 








A girl on the way home from school. Those are rice fields behind her:








Two grown ups coming back into town at the end of the day:


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## Iron Flatline (Apr 8, 2008)

One more...

another weird one. I spent some time at Chong Kneas, a floating village on the Tonle Sap lake. Actually, two floating villages, one Khmer the other Viet. 

Oddly, in the middle of the lake, I bumped into this family. Little kids perform with snakes in return for a tip. HIGHLY unexpected on a lake. 

Check out the little boy, and the whistle around his neck. I love his expression.


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## chantal7 (Apr 8, 2008)

I have to say these are very interesting. If you don't mind me asking, how did the people handle you taking photos of them; like did they mind? Didn't care? I am curious as to what their reactions were, if any. Thanks for sharing your photos


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## Los Angeles (Apr 8, 2008)

Also I have one question.  What were you doing there?  Work, Travel, Fun.


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## Iron Flatline (Apr 9, 2008)

I was there on vacation, with the express goal of taking pictures. I know people working for NGOs in Cambodia and I have friends in Vietnam, so I went on photo holiday. I went alone, without my kids or wife (I get a 10 day pass once a year to do my own thing for photography.)

People there are less uptight about photography, but there's additional compounding cultural differences. First of all, they are non-violent. In spite of what the context is, most of these places are completely safe. In Vietnam you can walk around at night and be safer than in any European city, never mind an American city. Nothing is going to happen to you. Also, getting mad (losing face) is culturally unacceptable there, so no one is going to yell at you. The biggest "photographic problem" is that everyone starts smiling at you all the time.... so you have a lot of "cheeeese" pictures. Smiling is common in SE Asia... and it helps a lot if you do it. But that is true about photographing people everywhere in the world....


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## Los Angeles (Apr 9, 2008)

You have done well with you 10 day pass.  I have seen a couple times people go on "missions" and take photos.  It sort of frys me when people go on religious missions.  Im glad to see you were on vacation.


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## Iron Flatline (Apr 9, 2008)

No, my images reflect my local mood. Fun in Bangkok, food and business in Saigon, depression and darkness in Phnom Penh. 

Nothing worse than a hobby photographer who suddenly thinks he's On Assignment because he's got a camera and some poor people in front of him... Nonetheless, it's hard to ignore what you're seeing, and there's something to be said for documenting it photographically. I've been using the images of the kids to get my kids to finish dinner, stop asking for new toys, and basically threaten Orphanage to them every time they don't behave...

layball:


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## Los Angeles (Apr 9, 2008)

Iron Flatline said:


> No, my images reflect my local mood. Fun in Bangkok, food and business in Saigon, depression and darkness in Phnom Penh.
> 
> Nothing worse than a hobby photographer who suddenly thinks he's On Assignment because he's got a camera and some poor people in front of him... Nonetheless, it's hard to ignore what you're seeing, and there's something to be said for documenting it photographically. I've been using the images of the kids to get my kids to finish dinner, stop asking for new toys, and basically threaten Orphanage to them every time they don't behave...
> 
> layball:



My brothers and I grew up in a midle class neighborhood in Los angeles.  When we would act spoiled my mom would load us up in the car and take us for a ride in down town LA and show us how others lived.  

When we got home we were happy to have a bike and did not care that it was not a cool new diamond back.

J


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## rwhitlow (Apr 10, 2008)

Los Angeles said:


> You have done well with you 10 day pass.  I have seen a couple times people go on "missions" and take photos.  It sort of frys me when people go on religious missions.  Im glad to see you were on vacation.



I really don't want to get in a "Religious" discussion, but my Church goes down to South America sometimes (I haven't been) to help Parishes rebuild Churches and help the local town with repairs and such.  Is this the kind of trip that would bother you?  Or is it just Evangelical Conversion type trips?


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## Los Angeles (Apr 10, 2008)

rwhitlow said:


> I really don't want to get in a "Religious" discussion, but my Church goes down to South America sometimes (I haven't been) to help Parishes rebuild Churches and help the local town with repairs and such.  Is this the kind of trip that would bother you?  Or is it just Evangelical Conversion type trips?



COnversion Trips are the ones that make me nuts.  If your church goes to help someone of a similar belief/faith that fantastic.  Or if you church goes to help people that have different beliefs and you do not utter one word about your beiefs that is also an amazing thing to do.  But when people try and push there religion on to others with accompanying aid/help thats nasty.


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## Iron Flatline (Apr 17, 2008)

Bump


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