# Which flash?



## Lmphotos (Dec 22, 2012)

My off brand flash I got was defective and now I am not listening to any more shop owners just going brand name. I do not do much studio work except newborns and I really only use window light for them. However I do need a decent flash and eventually want to do some wedding work. What would you get the 430ex II or the big 580 ex? This flash will probably not be used off camera at least not for a year while I am just learning the basics. Is the 580 worth the extra money or will the 430ex be enough for my needs? Any input appreciated!


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## pgriz (Dec 22, 2012)

If, at some point in the future, you'll want to have a second flash slaved to the first, and your camera is not a 7D, then you'll need a flash master, which the 580EX is, and the 430EX isn't.  Other plus of the 580 is that you have enough power to use bounce (which spreads out the light a lot) which usually gives a much more pleasing light than does direct flash.  If you are thinking of doing weddings, you want the most powerful flash you can get, as most wedding locations have very poor light.  As well, the 580 can be used off-camera (with radio triggers) in a softbox or with an umbrella, and has enough light to be useful.  I have both flash units, and the 580 is more versatile.  In addition the 580 has more capability in terms of flash-head movement, whereas the 430 has some limitations.


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## Lmphotos (Dec 22, 2012)

You don't think the 430 is powerful enough to bounce?


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## keith foster (Dec 22, 2012)

I second PGriz on the 580.  I have had mine for 5 years and it still looks and works like new.  I like it because you can quickly go fromm ETTL mode to manual mode by pushing a button a couple of times and a few clicks on the wheel.  I used mine tonight when my mother in law decided she wanted family pictures but didn't tell me till we got here.

It is a versatile and powerful light.  You can also get modifiers for it so you can do a lot.


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## pgriz (Dec 22, 2012)

Lmphotos said:


> You don't think the 430 is powerful enough to bounce?



In a small room or walls/ceiling close, perhaps.  I find that I have to boost the ISO to 400 with the 580 to be sure of getting enough light.  We're talking casual family event shooting, in rooms with white ceilings, about 8 ft. high, and generally white walls.  I have used the 430 in bounce, but then I usually have to be sure that I'm close to the wall, or there is just too much light fall-off.


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## keith foster (Dec 22, 2012)

Here is a link where they discuss the differences so you can decide for yourself.

580EX II vs 430EX II - Worth the Difference?


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## bratkinson (Dec 23, 2012)

When I finally figured out the popup flash was more useless decoration than worthwhile light source on my Canon G-5 Point & Shoot 6-7 years ago (stop laughing!), I figured I'd get the biggest, baddest flash out there as I could always cut back the power if it's too bright. So I went with the king of the hill at the time...the 550EX. It took some time to figure out how flashes worked, etc, but as a starting point, the G-5 could fully control the flash by itself and my pictures came out better than expected...once I started to bounce the light.

The 550EX served me faithfully then and still does as my 2nd flash (when I rarely do so), as a backup to my 580EX II when it went to Canon repair after I dropped it, and as a loner to a photography newbie friend with a Canon 60D.

I've never regretted going for 'the big Kahuna'. There were times I cranked the 550 and later the 580 to full power from the back of the darkened sancutary at church and lit up everything all the way to the wall behind the pulpit, about 100' away! When I need the power, it's ready to go!


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## StoneNYC (Dec 23, 2012)

If you are buying used, the 580exII for sure, it can be found for around $300 on Craigslist / eBay.

If you're buying new, get the 600ex-RT...

Going forward canon won't be supporting the IR fiction on any new flash so you won't be able to take advantage of the communication of multiple flashes unless you buy more older used flashes.

The RT will also be usable with studio strobes and pocket wizards, I'm surprised it took them this long, but also annoyed there's not an in-between step.

I own two 580exII's and the ST-E2 and won't be buying the 600 or the E-3 but only because I don't use in camera flash's much.  The used ones are just fine, and many are selling to buy into the RT system.  But the 580's are really nice.

But again, if buying new is important for a guarantee of quality, don't by anything but the 600 as its the most future forward option.


~Stone

The Noteworthy Ones - Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II  /  Canon: 1V, AE-1  /  Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jacobwilson (Dec 23, 2012)

I had the 430 for a bit. It worked well for me about 80% of the time. 
I upgraded to the 580 not too long ago and was definitely pleased with it. The 430 can bounce, but in places with vaulted ceilings, larger rooms, etc. the 580 shines. I also gained from the increased power. And the ability to slave from my 60D is very useful. I say, if you have the $$$ go big and get the 580. You won't ever regret not getting the 430, and you won't have to deal with selling and buying again if you decide to upgrade after.


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## cgipson1 (Dec 23, 2012)

Many of us sometimes have wished we could put 300 watt monolights (or more) on our cameras... seems like there will always be some situations where you need "MORE" light! Get the 580....down the road, if you really learn to use it, you will be glad you did! Not to mention the other useful features!

I have three monolights.... and 4 speedlights. And I sometimes use them all at once!

EDIT: just saw StoneNYC's post about the 600EX. Yes... even a better option! Don't use or shoot Canon, so didn't even know that existed!


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## TCampbell (Dec 24, 2012)

Canon's flashes are named for the "guide number" of the flash. E.g. the 430EX II has a guide number of 43 (meters), the 580EX II has a guide number of 58, etc.

The guide number is the distance at which the flash can deliver enough light for an adequate exposure using ISO 100 and f/1.0   It can be expressed in either meters or feet but Canon uses meters.

While every camera can do ISO 100, virtually no camera/lens can do f/1.0 (Canon did make a 50mm f/1.0 lens but they haven't made that lens in well over 10 years.) 

The reason f/1.0 is used (even though you can't take an f/1.0 exposure) is that it makes the math VERY easy.  Just divide the guide number of the flash by the ACTUAL f-stop you're using and you'll arrive at the distance that the flash can handle.

For example, if you're shooting at f/5.6, divide 43 meters (141 feet) by 5.6 and you get a distance of about 25 feet.  The 580 (guide number of 58) works out to about 190', but divide that by f/5.6 and you get about 34' working distance.

Keep in mind that this is all at ISO 100.  Each time you double the ISO you can increase that distance by 1.4 (the square root of 2).

While these distances might seem large, something else to keep in mind is that most diffusers will eat about 1 stop worth of light (fire through a frosted glass, plastic, or shoot-through fabric and usually about half the light penetrates the diffuser (this is a guideline... TEST your diffusers so that you know how much light they eat.)  If you "bounce" the flash, then you've got to measure the distance up to your ceiling or wall, then back to your subject AND account for the fact that the bounce surface wont actually reflect 100% of the light.  Suddenly a flash that shoots 25' (at f/5.6) can be reduced to less than half that value.  You can crank up the ISO to get your distance back, but higher ISO increases the noise.

The 430EX II is a reliable workhorse flash and it's great for most personal shooting situations.  I can work as a "slave" flash but as was mentioned above, it cannot be a "master".  The 580EX II does everything the 430 can do, but can also work as a master (or slave), has a built-in bounce/catch-light card, supports multi-strobic shooting (you can program a series of flashes at a specific interval within just one frame... it catches a moving subject in multiple positions) and it's weather sealed.  It also has an external sync cord connector and can accept an external battery back for extended shooting.  It's a bit more of a pro level flash.  

The new 600RT does everything the 580 can do but also supports radio triggering (this requires that you either have one of the newer Canon bodies with radio triggering or you buy the radio trigger controller.)  

I have all three of these flashes.  Depending on what I needed to shoot, I'd often just grab the 430 because it's smaller & lighter if I didn't need the power or features of the larger flashes.  However, if I only had 1 flash at a wedding, then I'd minimally want a 580.  The 430 might be a nice economical second light, but you'll find it's not quite enough for some large rooms.  ALSO... guide numbers assume the reflector on the flash is concentrating the beam.  At a wide angle the beam disperses more rapidly (think "group shots").


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## gw2424 (Dec 24, 2012)

Look into the 550ex!


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## dascrow (Jan 2, 2013)

Amazon has a good price on the Canon Speedlite 430EX II Flash currently: $254 + shipping. It's the best price I've seen on this.

Amazon.com: Canon Speedlite 430EX II Flash for Canon Digital SLR Cameras: Electronics

B&H has it for the same price:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/571297-USA/Canon_2805B002_430EX_II_Speedlite_TTL.html


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