# Need Advice regarding which MILC to choose



## Noor_ar (Dec 29, 2014)

Hello all !

I'm a beginner and new to this forum , and I've deiced to buy a MLIC as my first serious camera as they offer a good compromise between portability and quality IMO .. I am considering these 3 options :

1-Fujifilm X-M1 as it is selling for 550 USD here in Dubai with the Standard Kit lens + 50-230 telephoto lens
2-Sony a6000 746 USD + for kit lens + 55-210 telephoto from B&H
3-Sonly A5100 656 USD for kit lens + 55-210 telephoto from B&H

As a beginner would the a5100 suffice or I'm better off shelling out the extra 100 USD for the EVF and hot shoe ?

The Fuji-film looks like a great deal, but I do care about auto-focus and low light performance  , how does it compare to Sonys in that aspect ?

I am also open to other suggestions for an approx 600 USD budget MILC 

Thanks !
Noor


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## Gary A. (Dec 29, 2014)

I've used/owned a number of mirrorless but not a Sony. I've used Panasonics, Olympus and Fujis. My Fuji's are, without question, my most used cameras. I much prefer the Fuji X-Trans sensor over the sensor in my Oly EM1. I haven't used a X-M1, but it uses the same sensor as in my XP1, XE2, X100S and XT1. My Fuji's deliver exceptional low light performance. I don't know about the autofocus of the Sony(s) but the second generation Fuji's focuses lightning fast (XE2/XT1), similar to the Oly EM-1. Shooting action with the Fuji's is still a bit problematic as the AF has a problem tracking, but it will maintain focus if you keep the moving subject in the focus reticle. (Again, this has been my experience with the XT1.) Fuji FX lenses are exceptional, equal to or better than my 'L' lenses that I use for my FF cameras.

Gary

Examples of low light performance:

XT1 w/ 55-200 @ 200mm, ISO 3200






f/4.8, 1/250





f/9, 1/250


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## Ysarex (Dec 29, 2014)

People go about the process of selecting a camera to purchase, as my old Latin teacher would say, bass ackwards.

Before the digital age we had rule # 1: Lenses take photos, cameras hold film. So buy the lenses you want to work with and adjust to the film holder as needed.

It's a little more complicated today and the camera body features do matter more than they used to. But the lenses should not be an after thought.

Like Gary I now shoot with Fuji X series lenses and that means my sensor holder is a Fuji X series camera.

I decided to downsize after I retired from FF DSLRs to a smaller lighter camera system. That system for me was the Fuji X series lenses. I looked at the Sony lenses available and compared options -- not even a contest. Sony is making some exciting and interesting cameras right now, but not lenses. You can't take photos without lenses. Put a mediocre lens on the most awesome camera ever made and all you ever get is mediocre photos.

Joe


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## The_Traveler (Dec 29, 2014)

No one can really give you guidance on the 'best' mirror-less because so much depends on what you shoot, what you have as a budget and where you are going with cameras.
If you are a 'beginner' with years ahead of you, it is really hard to make a bad choice now.
and, to be honest, you aren't making a decision for the entire future. 500 or so dollars is a reasonable place to start.
The best thing is to handle the cameras and find which one feels better for you and fills your needs best.

The idea that Sony is bad because there isn't a huge variety of lenses available makes sense only if Sony doesn't have what you want to use as a lens.
People like to tout what they own because it reinforces their decisions and the cameras work well for them.
But that doesn't mean, it will work for you.

I shot Nikon full frame for years, using the Nikon 24-70 90% of the time and all the other lenses I had (4 of them) the other ten percent.
Then I switched to mirrorless, first the OMD 5 and a set of lenses that approximated what I had in the Nikon.
There was one problem for me with the OMD - I shoot mostly street photography.  That requires fast changes in EC, aperture or focal point and the ergonomics just wasn't right for me.
Just lately I bought a Sony A7 II (a FF camera) with one lens - the Sony 24-70.

The much improved ergonomics means I will use that camera/lens for street shooting and using the OMD for situations where super ergonomics is not critical for me.

Seeing pictures shot with one specific camera lens does not mean anything about that camera and lens for you; it just means that the circumstances worked well for that photographer.
I took good pictures with a D70 and an old 18-200 lens, but no one would recommend that combination to anyone now.


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## Gary A. (Dec 29, 2014)

I can only assume you are making reference to my images ... For clarity sake, the images posted *do show an example of high ISO capabilities of the same sensor which is employed in the camera the OP desired more information*. It is great that you took pictures with a D70 and an old 18-200 lens, but that hasn't any reference to the OP.





XP1 w/ 55-200 @ 200mm, ISO 6400, f/4.8, 1/250


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## PropilotBW (Dec 29, 2014)

Gary A. said:


> I can only assume you are making reference to my images ... For clarity sake, the images posted *do show an example of high ISO capabilities of the same sensor which is employed in the camera the OP desired more information*. It is great that you took pictures with a D70 and an old 18-200 lens, but that hasn't any reference to the OP.
> 
> (pic removed for space)
> 
> XP1 w/ 55-200 @ 200mm, ISO 6400



That is a great photo.  What did your shutter speed end up being at that high of ISO?


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## Noor_ar (Dec 29, 2014)

Thanks all for your insights  

As I will be using it as a travel camera ,I do care a lot about Autofocus performance and I want it to be "fast" i.e I don't want a slight shake to give me a blurry image in certain conditions .. Is this dictated by the camera (sensor etc) or is it the lens's aperture that matters most for speed ?  

When handling the Sonys and the Fujifilm , the autofocus on the Sonys felt much more responsive .. but at that price point (550 USD with the telephoto) I am debating whether faster autofocus is worth shelling out 100-200 USD more.

Regarding lenses , I am planning to have a telephoto in the addition to the kit lens for now , and maybe a fast 35mm later.


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## Gary A. (Dec 29, 2014)

PropilotBW said:


> Gary A. said:
> 
> 
> > I can only assume you are making reference to my images ... For clarity sake, the images posted *do show an example of high ISO capabilities of the same sensor which is employed in the camera the OP desired more information*. It is great that you took pictures with a D70 and an old 18-200 lens, but that hasn't any reference to the OP.
> ...


Thank you.

1/250 ... I've added aperture and shutter speeds to the images.


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## Ysarex (Dec 29, 2014)

Noor_ar said:


> Thanks all for your insights
> 
> As I will be using it as a travel camera ,I do care a lot about Autofocus performance and I want it to be "fast" i.e I don't want a slight shake to give me a blurry image in certain conditions .. Is this dictated by the camera (sensor etc) or is it the lens's aperture that matters most for speed ?
> 
> ...



The only way you could get something this good on a Sony is to buy it from Zeiss: Fujifilm XF 35mm F1.4 R: Digital Photography Review

Fuji is a lens maker, Sony is an electronics maker. Sony makes great electronics. Lenses take photographs.

Joe


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## Gary A. (Dec 29, 2014)

Noor_ar said:


> Thanks all for your insights
> 
> As I will be using it as a travel camera ,I do care a lot about Autofocus performance and I want it to be "fast" i.e I don't want a slight shake to give me a blurry image in certain conditions .. Is this dictated by the camera (sensor etc) or is it the lens's aperture that matters most for speed ?
> 
> ...


A high shutter speed is required to eliminate hand shake (or IS or a combo of shutter speed and IS). A fast aperture is helpful to attain a fast shutter speed without affecting ISO. Good luck on your choice.


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## PropilotBW (Dec 29, 2014)

I think the a6000 is a great camera.  It is one of the most popular entry level mirrorless cameras on the market and it is rated very highly as well.  
I would do some research on your three choices, but if you're down to a5000 versus the a6000, I'd choose the a6000.  

Best camera under 1,000 dollars: Best mirrorless camera


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## Noor_ar (Dec 29, 2014)

Gary A. said:


> Noor_ar said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks all for your insights
> ...



I am really still a novice when it comes to photography , will the shutter speed of 1/4000 suffice on the Fuji X-M1 when combined with the right lens give me the results I expect ? , will the kit lens do ?


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## Noor_ar (Dec 29, 2014)

PropilotBW said:


> I think the a6000 is a great camera.  It is one of the most popular entry level mirrorless cameras on the market and it is rated very highly as well.
> I would do some research on your three choices, but if you're down to a5000 versus the a6000, I'd choose the a6000.
> 
> Best camera under 1,000 dollars: Best mirrorless camera



Its the a5100 I am considering , it basically has the same sensor as the a6000 minus the evf and hotshoe (and a slower burst mode)  , yea the EVF alone is worth the 100 USD diff !


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## PropilotBW (Dec 29, 2014)

Noor_ar said:


> PropilotBW said:
> 
> 
> > I think the a6000 is a great camera.  It is one of the most popular entry level mirrorless cameras on the market and it is rated very highly as well.
> ...



Here's a comparison between the two.  

Sony A5100 vs A6000 - Our Analysis


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## Noor_ar (Dec 29, 2014)

Ysarex said:


> Noor_ar said:
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> 
> > Thanks all for your insights
> ...



yea and Zeiss lens are kind of expensive .. , I will consider the wider range of lens on the Fuji in my decision


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## Gary A. (Dec 29, 2014)

Noor_ar said:


> Gary A. said:
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> > Noor_ar said:
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1/4000 is way more than sufficient for hand shake. There is a rule of thumb for FF cameras of the reciprocal of the lens focal length is approximately the lowest shutter speed for hand holding. So a 500mm lens = a reciprocal shutter speed of 1/500, a 60mm lens = 1/60th, et cetera. With APS-C sensors multiply the lens focal length by 1.5 ... so a 500mm now become a 750mm lens for rule of thumb hand holding shutter speed or 1/750, et cetera.


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## sashbar (Dec 29, 2014)

Noor_ar said:


> Thanks all for your insights
> 
> As I will be using it as a travel camera ,I do care a lot about Autofocus performance and I want it to be "fast" i.e I don't want a slight shake to give me a blurry image in certain conditions .. Is this dictated by the camera (sensor etc) or is it the lens's aperture that matters most for speed ?
> 
> ...



Your question tells me that you probably need a bit of reading on photography. A book like "Understanding Exposure" by Bryan Peterson would be an excellent investment for you. 

Understanding Exposure, 3rd Edition: How to Shoot Great Photographs with Any Camera: Bryan Peterson: 0884798534707: Amazon.com: Books


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## Noor_ar (Dec 29, 2014)

So based on that both the Sonys and Fuji will do well in this aspect using a combination of a fast shutter speed and high ISO based on their fast maximum shutter speeds (1/4000) and high ISO sensitivities (25,600)? , a good lens will help collect more light and reduce dependence on noisier high ISO settings for a given exposure and shutter speed.   

sashbar yes I am pretty much a novice and some reading will help 

ProPilotBW , yes the a6000 is universally acclaimed in reviews and that's why I short-listed it..


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## cooltouch (Dec 31, 2014)

If you're leaning toward Sony, I would also recommend the A6000, for the reasons you first mentioned. There will be many times you'll be glad you have the EVF. And having a standard hot shoe makes things much easier when it comes time to mount a flash.

I own a Sony NEX 7, and the main reason why I bought it over the other NEX models was the EVF. Well, the 24.3mp also had something to do with it, but I knew I would need that EVF.  Also, the main reason why I bought a MILC to begin with was so I could use my old legacy glass on a new digital.  I have a rather large inventory of old Canon FD and Nikon and Pentax manual focus lenses that actually work very  well on the NEX, especially with its  focus peaking feature.  So if you have some old glass, you might want to include that into your considerations as well.


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## Benjo255 (Jan 2, 2015)

I switched from Nikon D90 to Fuji Xe2 and I don't regret at all. Fuji has a very performing Xtrans sensor and lenses are just...wow.


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## gsgary (Jan 3, 2015)

Noor_ar said:


> Gary A. said:
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> > Noor_ar said:
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I have been shooting for years and I don't think I have ever used 1/4000, my Leica's only go to 1/1000 never been a problem


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## sashbar (Jan 3, 2015)

My XT-1 has max shutter speed of 1/30,000 after the hardware upgrade, so I am just waiting for a bullet to fly by.


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## Gary A. (Jan 3, 2015)

gsgary said:


> Noor_ar said:
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> > Gary A. said:
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I agree that you can get by with only 1/1000 ... but if you have 1/2000, 1/4000, 1/8000 ... what the heck ... options can be very useful.


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## Gary A. (Jan 3, 2015)

sashbar said:


> My XT-1 has max shutter speed of 1/30,000 after the hardware upgrade, so I am just waiting for a bullet to fly by.


MILC's don't focus as well as dSLR's so you might want to prefocus with that one.


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## gsgary (Jan 3, 2015)

Gary A. said:


> gsgary said:
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> > Noor_ar said:
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I'm not sure what my A7 goes up to must go and have a look


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## sashbar (Jan 3, 2015)

Gary A. said:


> sashbar said:
> 
> 
> > My XT-1 has max shutter speed of 1/30,000 after the hardware upgrade, so I am just waiting for a bullet to fly by.
> ...



Well, if it flies at me, I have a chance my camera will trace it. Not that I will know it, which is a pity.


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