# Adobe is one of the most incompetent brainless companies I have ever dealt with



## BananaRepublic (Jun 16, 2015)

There customer service is Terrible


----------



## tirediron (Jun 16, 2015)

Because?


----------



## BananaRepublic (Jun 16, 2015)

The deleted my account after I paid a full year subscription and kept my money. After explaining it to 20 different chat support people and three months of the "escalating" nonsense, I eventually got an email from the higher up idiots saying  that there would be an easy transition from one account to another but now they have closed my accsess to LR & PS and have not given me a refund nor are they allowing me to open a new account


----------



## tirediron (Jun 16, 2015)

BananaRepublic said:


> The deleted my account after I paid a full year subscription and kept my money. After explaining it to 20 different chat support people and three months of the "escalating" nonsense, I eventually got an email from the higher up idiots saying  that there would be an easy transition from one account to another but now they have closed my accsess to LR & PS and have not given me a refund nor are they allowing me to open a new account


 Ouch!  I have to admit that my customer experience with them was less than stellar as well.  Changing the credit-card I was using to pay for it proved to be a LOT more painful than it ever should have.


----------



## Overread (Jun 16, 2015)

Honestly it might be worth  stating that in your next communication if there is not a suitable resolution you'll escalate it Trading Standards or whatever similar government body there is in your country. Sometimes the threat of external pressure works; or at least gets you talking to someone who CAN do things rather than those who can only do what the computer approves them to do


----------



## Braineack (Jun 16, 2015)

Red Beard never had this trouble with software.


----------



## waday (Jun 16, 2015)

Do they have a phone number to call? I tend to get further actually speaking to someone than writing emails or chat messages.


----------



## Overread (Jun 16, 2015)

The bonus with emails is that you have a clear papertrail - if something is said you can always refer back to it. In telephone messages you don't. At this late stage I think its a case of emails and written letters - an established formal papertrail so that there IS correspondence that you can quote and you can show that its taken 3 months or that "so and so said this".


----------



## weepete (Jun 16, 2015)

You can get a transcript e-mailed to you at the time by clicking a box.

I've found the support very good on both occasions I had to contact them.


----------



## Derrel (Jun 16, 2015)

"Oh! Oh! Oh! Tell the story of how Adobe let tens of millions of users' passwords and personal information get hacked just a bit after they announced the $50-a-month-for-life program! Tell that story, Daddy! Tell that story!"


----------



## Braineack (Jun 16, 2015)

Is it better than the story about how i opened my mail from DHS on Monday saying my personal infomation has been given to China?


----------



## waday (Jun 16, 2015)

Overread said:


> The bonus with emails is that you have a clear papertrail - if something is said you can always refer back to it. In telephone messages you don't. At this late stage I think its a case of emails and written letters - an established formal papertrail so that there IS correspondence that you can quote and you can show that its taken 3 months or that "so and so said this".


If you take good notes (i.e., actually remember the person's name, date/time of call, try to get person's direct extension), phone conversations can be extremely helpful. I typically also request that the person include notes of our conversation in my 'file'. It's much more personal, and people are more willing to help you because of that connection. At least, that's my opinion based on my experience. I understand why people like email, because you don't have to talk to someone. Email is worse for the customer, IMO.

If I can't get anything changed via phone, I will then try email for a 'paper trail' for purposes of suing them.

That said, I haven't had to go to court yet against a major corporation. I try to avoid that. 

(I'm not mentioning 'chat', because in my experience, I've found that those people rarely have ANY authority to do ANYTHING. I literally had one person tell me that they can't do anything but sell me services. After that, I never used it again.)


----------



## Buckster (Jun 16, 2015)

Derrel said:


> "Oh! Oh! Oh! Tell the story of how Adobe let tens of millions of users' passwords and personal information get hacked just a bit after they announced the $50-a-month-for-life program! Tell that story, Daddy! Tell that story!"


I like how they "let" it happen, as though they knew and watched while it was going on, and just kicked back and laughed about it.  "Cool!!  Look!!  Some hackers have broken through security and are downloading everything we have!!  We should get a pizza while this is going on!!

That pretty much how you see it, Derrel The IT Security Expert?

I also love how they're expected to be more secure than the many other entities that have high-security digital data in their computers, including every major store, company and government on the planet that gets hack-attacked on a semi-regular basis.

Yeah, Adobe alone is the one that just sucks, right D?  

By the way Derrel, whatever happened with all the hacked data?  I don't recall seeing anywhere that Adobe subscribers were suddenly having money ganked out of their bank accounts or seeing charges on their cards that don't belong there.  In fact, I believe I read somewhere that the data was actually not specific enough to link it to particular users to exploit them.  I simply changed my password and never heard anything more about it.

Seems rather anti-climactic after your sweet buildup to the Adobe smack-down we can always rely on from you, D.  Otherwise it would have been a MUCH more compelling story for us all, I bet.


----------



## JacaRanda (Jun 16, 2015)

Adobe the Devil. 

You should see the complaints that some part of the new update is not included with the latest stand alone version of LR.  Folks are on Fire.

Sucks that there is no other option.


----------



## Buckster (Jun 16, 2015)

BananaRepublic said:


> The deleted my account after I paid a full year subscription and kept my money. After explaining it to 20 different chat support people and three months of the "escalating" nonsense, I eventually got an email from the higher up idiots saying  that there would be an easy transition from one account to another but now they have closed my accsess to LR & PS and have not given me a refund nor are they allowing me to open a new account


I get the feeling there's more to this story than just your perspective as laid out here; A story that implies that you did nothing out of place or out of the ordinary at all.  Something tells me there are other circumstances involved that caused this whole problem in the first place.


JacaRanda said:


> Adobe the Devil.
> 
> You should see the complaints that some part of the new update is not included with the latest stand alone version of LR.  Folks are on Fire.
> 
> Sucks that there is no other option.


That was just a matter of time, and anyone who decides to get and use a standalone version instead of a subscription that constantly gets updated had to expect that would be the outcome at some point anyway.  Now, later, who cares?  It's inevitable.  Call them a waaaaambulance.


----------



## Derrel (Jun 16, 2015)

One can often spot a payed shill for a corporation by noting how fast and furiously the shill responds to anything negative that is said about the company that pays to have their reputation defended from anything even remotely negative. Shills respond with personal, ad hominem attacks, and dispute even true accounts that were reported by mainstream media outlets. We have a couple Adobe shills on this site who have been here for several years, ALWAYS, and I mean ALWAYS, responding to any comments that might even remotely expose the business tactics Adobe has taken against its customers. We know who those shills are...

Fact: Adobe attempted to extort a $50-a-month use license fee from millions of customers.
Fact: The $50 a month price was roundly condemned, and Adobe reduced it to $9.95 a month
Fact: Adobe was hacked--not long after the $50 a month plan was floated.
Fact: Adobe under-reported the number of compromised accounts.
Fact: Adobe later revised the number of hacked accounts AND the severity of the hacks upward, after the initial furor had died down a little bit.


----------



## unpopular (Jun 16, 2015)

cgw said:


> Ouch!  I have to admit that my customer experience with them was less than stellar as well.  Changing the credit-card I was using to pay for it proved to be a LOT more painful than it ever should have.



My customer service experience with them has been non-existant. I'm glad I've never had an issue that I couldn't resolve - but I do remember the first year I paid for CC something did happen. Autodesk, which offers similar plan structure as Adobe is way better. I had a licensure issue after having reinstalled windows, and they had me back up and running in a few hours.

I'd ditch Adobe if there were something comparable to After Effects. But for 2D motion design and typography, it's [unfortunately] really the only product.


----------



## Buckster (Jun 16, 2015)

Derrel said:


> One can often spot a payed shill for a corporation by noting how fast and furiously the shill responds to anything negative that is said about the company that pays to have their reputation defended from anything even remotely negative. Shills respond with personal, ad hominem attacks, and dispute even true accounts that were reported by mainstream media outlets. We have a couple Adobe shills on this site who have been here for several years, ALWAYS, and I mean ALWAYS, responding to any comments that might even remotely expose the business tactics Adobe has taken against its customers. We know who those shills are...


And yet, every time he's put on the spot to name them or show exactly what they've said to indicate that they are PAID by Adobe to respond to the BS that pops out of the keyboards of those who apparently have some sort of Adobe Fetish (to explain the hard-on that pops out every time the company's name is mentioned), he utterly FAILS.

The list of BS that he thinks are "facts" isn't even worth addressing.  It's like listening to a rabid political talking head on Talk Radio twist some information into a completely different story that tries to make the case that because of it, life and civilization as we know it will end abruptly and in a big puff of smoke.


----------



## runnah (Jun 16, 2015)

The Ultimate Photo Editor - PaintShop Pro X7 Ultimate


----------



## unpopular (Jun 16, 2015)

I don't mind paying for software subscriptions. Though I do get it.

But Adobe as a company blows.


----------



## BananaRepublic (Jun 17, 2015)

Ok there is a bit more to the story, I had multiple accounts that i had used for the free trial thing. I decided to purchase and I thought it would be a good idea to take a hatchet to the unused accounts, it took about 40 minutes to do this via chat support but it was done.

Where it all went wrong was when I purchased a plan. It took one month for the changes I asked for ,RE, superfluous accounts to filter through the Adobe either, a fact that I only realised after.

Unknown to myself I inadvertently signed up to a plan using one of these accounts, which should have been closed but were not. I made the mistake because of auto fill on my computer.

Anyway nothing happened for a month and then things started to go a bit wrong I could not login to Aobe as my account was closed all of a sudden. This was not a huge thing as I could still use the apps. but now there are more problems such as dercribed earlier.

This is what I dealing with
Waseem:

Conor, your chat has not been transferred to correct team and mistakenly your chat came back to us, Please stay online while I transfer your chat to our relevant team.


----------



## Dao (Jun 17, 2015)

I also had a not so good type experience with Adobe few years ago.  I purchased the LR3 from Adorama back then and few weeks after that, they released the LR4.   After I learned that (from their website) Adobe has a upgrade policy regarding software purchase within a period of time, I contacted Adobe.

In the beginning, they asked for the invoice which show the date of purchase.  At that time, the only one I had was a email receipt from Adorama, so I just send that to them.   Then in the follow up phone call, they told me that was not an invoice so they could not offer me the upgrade.  On top of that, they also denied my upgrade because the price I paid was too low after seeing my receipt.  (Adorama had the LR on sale at that time).   That was the first time I heard about cost of purchase affects upgrade status.  Since it was not going anywhere so I ended the conversion and thought I may try a different CSR at a later time and see what happened. 

Since one of the issue was the original invoice, so I called Adorama and just ask the reps and see if they can email me the invoice.  And the lady on the phone located my purchase from my account and sent the invoice to me right away.   And out of the blue, she asked me if I were trying to upgrade to LR4?  I said yes and then she asked me if I had any issue with the upgrade.  So I told her my story and she reply right away I was not the only one and Adorama received many complaints about the issue.  She later said Adobe had an agreement with Adorama for that LR3 sales to include the upgrade.  Of course, as a consumer, I did not know about it and I was not even know LR4 was coming.  She asked me to talk to the Adobe reps again, if they had any issue, ask the Adobe reps to talk to the management, they should know about the agreement.

Long story short, I received my LR4 at the end.

Just based on this particular experience, I feel that Adobe CSR just did care.  They were trying to or find a way to deny my upgrade claim (others as well).  As least that was what it seemed like.  On the contrary, Adorama reps was trying to help me before I even asked.  That made me feel they care about their customer experience.

Of course, that was just one of my experience and it is possible that all other people may have a total opposite and positive experience with Adobe.  But at least that is how I feel about Adobe.


----------



## runnah (Jun 17, 2015)

I don't understand this thread. Sure everyone occasionally has bad customer service experiences but at the end of the day Adobe has released amazing programs that we should all appreciate.

And really some of these experiences are less Adobe's fault and more the user's.


----------



## Dao (Jun 17, 2015)

It is unfortunately the case when Adobe still owns the market.  I still like their software and recommend to others because I have not find a better one.   In other industries, where competition are keen, customer service department could be one of their marketing tools.


----------



## The_Traveler (Jun 17, 2015)

Dao said:


> It is unfortunately the case when Adobe still owns the market.  I still like their software and recommend to others because I have not find a better one.   In other industries, where competition are keen, customer service department could be one of their marketing tools.



There is a huge barrier to entry for other companies.  At the low end there are free things like Picasa, there is competition at the middle with PSP etc, but at the high end, no company can afford the development process to make a product as versatile and powerful as PS.
I've never had a problem with Adobe customer service, the few glitches I have had were solved with a search of their help and communities.
Just recently I had a problem with the Creative Cloud  download that stalled repeatedly; I ended up removing a specific preferences file and everything went well after that.

(I have appended the image with the location of the corrupted file that I removed in case this post comes up in a search for that problem.  CC replaces that file on startup and I just had to log in again to Adobe.)


----------



## The_Traveler (Jun 17, 2015)

Derrel said:


> Fact: The $50 a month price was roundly condemned, and Adobe reduced it to $9.95 a month



This doesn't sound like much of a defect by Adobe.
Adobe was trying to maximize its return while minimizing the complexity of its support and ongoing updates, saw the customer reaction and, in response, created the smaller bundle of the most popular apps with a lowered price.
That's business.


----------



## Buckster (Jun 17, 2015)

The_Traveler said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> > Fact: The $50 a month price was roundly condemned, and Adobe reduced it to $9.95 a month
> ...


I cried out and condemned too before the photography package news came out.  I had upgraded every time Adobe came out with a new version of PS for nearly 20 years, and then LR also after it came into being.  Armed with that information from my bank account associated with Adobe purchases, the financial numbers clearly didn't add up for me, so I planned on sticking with my standalone PS 6 until I was forced to move on to something else, probably sometime in the future when an OS wouldn't run it correctly anymore, or something like that.

After thinking about it logically in hindsight though, I honestly think that they had the whole "photographer" package at a reduced price in mind as part of the whole transition from the start, as opposed to the theory that it was just a knee-jerk reaction to the backlash.  

They're not idiots, and neither are their marketing people or the firms they use to research how customers will react to changes like that.

They knew ahead of time that there would be opposition to the subscription model by some folks on principle alone.  They knew ahead of time from standalone sales the popularity of Photoshop and LR over their other apps, and that most PS and LR users don't need or want the entire Creative Suite, and would reject and cry out over the entire suite and monthly price tag that went with it.  They knew ahead of time that most of us can do simple math to compare what we paid for the standalones and upgrades vs the added-up monthly costs the entire suite would incur.  They also knew that we'd more than welcome the PS and LR "photography package" after lashing out over all that, would perceive it as a WIN for "our side" (the customer vs. the big corporation of Adobe) and, for the most part, we did exactly that.

As for customer service, I've personally never had a problem with Adobe.  I always bought (licensed, actually) all my Adobe products directly from the Adobe store, downloaded straight from them, and installed and used without a hitch - year after year after year, upgrade after upgrade after upgrade.  That said, understandably, stuff happens sometimes, and some folks in any large customer base are bound to have a bad experience for one reason or another.  That's true for every large business though.

And before Derrel implies it YET AGAIN, no, I do not work for Adobe and I'm definitely not a shill.  They don't pay me - EVER - AT ALL - I pay them.  I get no reward from them at all for posting my thoughts on the subject, EVEN WHEN my thoughts and comments step on the toes of some rabid Adobe-hater.


----------



## runnah (Jun 17, 2015)

Too late, I have organized an angry mob, complete with pitch forks and torches, to storm the adobe HQ!


----------



## HaveCameraWillTravel (Jun 18, 2015)

runnah said:


> Too late, I have organized an angry mob, complete with pitch forks and torches, to storm the adobe HQ!



Heads on pikes, I want heads on pikes.


----------



## JacaRanda (Jun 18, 2015)

runnah said:


> I don't understand this thread. Sure everyone occasionally has bad customer service experiences but at the end of the day Adobe has released amazing programs that we should all appreciate.
> 
> And really some of these experiences are less Adobe's fault and more the user's.


 
No way.  They are the Devil!  Forcing foks to use their crapola.


----------



## JacaRanda (Jun 18, 2015)

Dao said:


> It is unfortunately the case when Adobe still owns the market.  I still like their software and recommend to others because I have not find a better one.   In other industries, where competition are keen, customer service department could be one of their marketing tools.


 
Can you imagine how many folks have NOT had a problem with their customer service; or even those that have been happy with it?  Things that make you go hmmm....


----------



## Derrel (Jun 18, 2015)

Stop by Thom Hogan's page here and read his dressing down of Adobe's inept handling of its cloud-based services. Adobe's almost comical ineptitude earns Hogan's scorn and ire after _yet another_ failed upgrade/update implementation _this spring_.

As he concludes, "*In short, more of the same from Adobe: incremental updates to everything amounts to monolithic update of the suite and lots of confusion in the installer. This is seriously bad form. But it’s the same bad form Adobe has shown for quite some time now.*"

Creative Cloud 2015 Emerges and Confuses byThom Thom Hogan


----------



## JacaRanda (Jun 18, 2015)

I loved his show.


----------



## Buckster (Jun 18, 2015)

Derrel said:


> Stop by Thom Hogan's page here and read his dressing down of Adobe's inept handling of its cloud-based services. Adobe's almost comical ineptitude earns Hogan's scorn and ire after _yet another_ failed upgrade/update implementation _this spring_.
> 
> As he concludes, "*In short, more of the same from Adobe: incremental updates to everything amounts to monolithic update of the suite and lots of confusion in the installer. This is seriously bad form. But it’s the same bad form Adobe has shown for quite some time now.*"


I'm certain that Adobe will go out of business soon because they're *SO* horrible.  There's probably only a dozen people or so still using Photoshop CC because they suck *SO* bad.  Especially since Thom Hogan, or should I say, "God according to Derrel", says so.

Their stock is probably dropping like a rock as we speak due to their "inept handling" ever since they switched to the CC service introduced 2 years ago yesterday, on June 17, 2013.  I'm sure we'll see that inevitable huge drop due to their continued and unrelenting suckage reflected in today's stock market graph:







Or maybe not...

Gee... It almost looks like a huge success, rather than the huge failure that Thom and his minion Derrel know it to be.  I must've posted the graph upside-down, or something.


----------



## unpopular (Jun 18, 2015)

It's pretty easy to keep stocks high when you hold a virtual monopoly.


----------



## Buckster (Jun 18, 2015)

By the way... Is it just me, or do others find this funny:


----------



## Buckster (Jun 18, 2015)

unpopular said:


> It's pretty easy to keep stocks high when you hold a virtual monopoly.


I had no idea that all other image editors had gone out of business.  Some of them were quite popular.  I also had no idea that nobody but Adobe's geeks could write the code to develop a decent editor that can compete. 

Wow!  They're really special, I guess.

Too bad that they suck so bad that it won't matter soon, as any company with *SO MUCH* suckage will surely go up in smoke pretty quickly, no matter what.


----------



## unpopular (Jun 18, 2015)

Buckster said:


> Wow!  They're really special, I guess.



Have you ever prepped a Corel file for press?

Didn't think so.


----------



## The_Traveler (Jun 18, 2015)

I read Hogan's article and it seems as if he gets a copy of every single Adobe product but is upset because they take up precious SSD space.
That's exactly the reason that I wouldn't take all those new Mercedes models that Mercedes wanted to give me; they just filled my garage.
Plus all those Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders just filled up my shower and used all the hot water.


----------



## Buckster (Jun 18, 2015)

unpopular said:


> Buckster said:
> 
> 
> > Wow!  They're really special, I guess.
> ...


How does that answer or address ANYTHING?


----------



## unpopular (Jun 18, 2015)

Buckster said:


> unpopular said:
> 
> 
> > Buckster said:
> ...



Because yeah, you can derp around with Corel Paintshop and Draw ... but when it's time to actually print anything on a large scale, it all has to pass through Photoshop, Illustrator and Acrobat to make it remotely useable.

I'd love it if someone else came along, but thus far the options for true production-readiness are very limited.

I'll agree though, for anyone not in the print world, there are tons of options. But this is the reason why Adobe is in the position that it is in.


----------



## Buckster (Jun 18, 2015)

unpopular said:


> Buckster said:
> 
> 
> > unpopular said:
> ...


So, it is your contention that Corel and Paint are the only other programs in existence that can get the job done?

Edit - Wait, no you're saying they don't get the job done.

Are you saying they are the only image editing programs in existence other than Adobe?


----------



## unpopular (Jun 18, 2015)

Buckster said:


> So, it is your contention that Corel and Paint are the only other programs in existence that can get the job done?
> 
> Edit - Wait, no you're saying they don't get the job done.
> 
> Are you saying they are the only image editing programs in existence other than Adobe?



Uhm. No. Draw and Paint can't get the job done. Either that or the typical level of designers that use Corel and Paint have no comprehension of print-readiness (which is entirely possible).

From my experience, files from Corel products have been a mess, and it's hard for me to determine what aspects is just poor design and what aspects are limitation to Corel products.

But aside from MS Publish, Corel documents, in particular Draw files, are the worst to preflight.


----------



## JacaRanda (Jun 19, 2015)

So you should be angry with everyone - no?


----------



## Buckster (Jun 19, 2015)

unpopular said:


> Buckster said:
> 
> 
> > So, it is your contention that Corel and Paint are the only other programs in existence that can get the job done?
> ...


So, to be clear, you're saying that Corel and Adobe are the only image editing programs that exist and claim to be able to do the job, but Corel can't get the job done, which is what makes Adobe "a monopoly", as you put it.

Thus, if Adobe went out of business tomorrow and all their software imploded, it would then be literally impossible for anyone anywhere to "print anything on a large scale" that is even "remotely useable (sic)".

What color are the skies on your planet?


----------



## pixmedic (Jun 19, 2015)

Derrel said:


> Stop by Thom Hogan's page here and read his dressing down of Adobe's inept handling of its cloud-based services. Adobe's almost comical ineptitude earns Hogan's scorn and ire after _yet another_ failed upgrade/update implementation _this spring_.
> 
> As he concludes, "*In short, more of the same from Adobe: incremental updates to everything amounts to monolithic update of the suite and lots of confusion in the installer. This is seriously bad form. But it’s the same bad form Adobe has shown for quite some time now.*"
> 
> Creative Cloud 2015 Emerges and Confuses byThom Thom Hogan




I have been using adobe software since CS2 (almost 10 years ago) and I really cant say that I have had any major issues with either their products _*or*_ their customer service.  CC updates automatically for me. I don't have to worry about downloading anything. I don't store anything in the cloud, but if I did, that would automatically sync as well. 
Adobe recognized that $50 a month was more than consumers were willing to pay, and dropped the LR/PS package down to a very manageable $10 a month. (which I have been happily paying ever since)
Im sorry if Thom Hogan has trouble using and understanding some of Adobes products...its not for everyone. But it IS for some people. like me. 

Forgive me if i dont take Thom too seriously...
there he is, railing on Adobe, yet on his web page, what does he have under "recommended books"?
Photoshop and Lightroom links. 
also, on his "third party software" page,  CS6 and Lightroom make the top of the list (CS6 in multiple categories)

Its like when you see Thom going off on one of his anti Nikon tangents....then you see this.


----------



## The_Traveler (Jun 19, 2015)

I don't think that there is too much of a stretch to understand why Thom Hogan writes critically about Adobe products.
It is much easier  and attracts more attention to criticize the big player and thus be seen as someone who speaks truth to power, than to go along with praise for the obvious and fit into the fanboy mode. Who would care if TH pointed out defects on small, cheap, relatively unimportant products?  
They are small and cheap because they have defects.
TH speaks out 'bravely' and attracts attention for what are relatively unimportant issues in the grand scheme of things.

Adobe products do their job, the pricing is fair particularly for the benefit and Adobe has an income stream that guarantees the company. 

There is a real world example to someone who stops fighting the establishment.  Aung San Suu Ky, the Burmese politician, was an outspoken and popular foe of the Myanmar military junta for years. She lived under house arrest but was a center of popular discord and rebellion. She was an unquestioned leader of popular anti-government feelings and she kept up her position. Eventually the military junta changed slightly to a quasi-democratic government, with the junta still very powerful; she was released, became a member of the parliament and has essentially disappeared as a force because now she was part of the structure.

TH wants to be the ASSK of photography.


----------



## BananaRepublic (Jun 19, 2015)

She is running for president there soon but assimilation is a concept that has exisited throughout human history, it is also the MO of the Borg.


----------



## unpopular (Jun 19, 2015)

Buckster said:


> Thus, if Adobe went out of business tomorrow and all their software imploded, it would then be literally impossible for anyone anywhere to "print anything on a large scale" that is even "remotely useable (sic)".



You might find this article useful.


----------



## The_Traveler (Jun 19, 2015)

BananaRepublic said:


> She is running for president there soon but assimilation is a concept that has existed throughout human history, it is also the MO of the Borg.



The Myanmar constitution gives the Army, the junta, essentially decision power in perpetuity.
By allowing major economic changes in Myanmar and giving up some power, the ruling junta has diffused the people's drive for major governmental changes. 
The visible internal changes are remarkable; thousands of new businesses, new cars, a visible new middle class but the junta still controls major sources of illegal income and continues the fight against the warlords in the North while maintaining ties with regional internal warlords. 
The country is rich in resources and too much of the money that should go fixing the horrible infrastructure is diverted into the pockets of the ruling class.


----------



## Buckster (Jun 19, 2015)

unpopular said:


> Buckster said:
> 
> 
> > Thus, if Adobe went out of business tomorrow and all their software imploded, it would then be literally impossible for anyone anywhere to "print anything on a large scale" that is even "remotely useable (sic)".
> ...


Trying to explain your personality to me isn't really helping.  Sorry.

Here's an article you might find useful though: 

MasterPrinter.com - How To Successfully Print Large Without Adobe


----------



## unpopular (Jun 20, 2015)

Maybe we should back-track. 

Have you ever prepped a file for press?


----------



## Buckster (Jun 20, 2015)

unpopular said:


> Maybe we should back-track.
> 
> Have you ever prepped a file for press?


Whether I have or I haven't doesn't change the fact that Corel and Adobe aren't the only image editors on the planet that are available, which you continue to attempt to avoid addressing.  It also wouldn't change the fact that Adobe doesn't have the only coders on the planet who can write programs and routines that can do tasks, including any and all tasks that have anything at all to do with printing, even large printing, and you keep trying to avoid that fact as well.

It also doesn't change the fact that human beings prepped and printed very large images before even the first version of Photoshop was invented, just 25 years ago.  That said, I have no doubt at all that if Adobe went belly up tomorrow and all their software instantly corrupted on everyone's machines everywhere, human beings with the need to print large would continue to do so without Adobe.

I also will boldly state that, no matter my answer, it's also not a common problem that MOST PEOPLE who use ANY of the image editors that DO ACTUALLY EXIST have to grapple with, and is therefor NOT *the thing* that keeps Adobe in business and their stocks high, which is your claim about what makes them a monopoly.

If Adobe suddenly DIDN'T work AT ALL for prepping large prints; If they suddenly jerked that ability out of all of their programs, relatively none of the people who use their programs, percentage-wise, would notice or be affected by it.  Their image-editing and normal-sized printing worlds would not in any way come crashing down around their ears.  Adobe's stock would STILL be high and climbing and their programs would STILL be popular and it would STILL be in business with tens of millions of people using it, and more signing on every day.  Thus, the ability to prep large prints is NOT what keeps Adobe in business and it's stock high, 100% contrary to your claims.

Now then, I will point out yet again that through it all, you can't bring yourself to give a straight answer to MY very simple questions to YOU, as usual.

You have an ongoing habit of making very definitive, one-sided, closed-minded, extremely opinionated statements that, upon closer review and questioning and testing of YOUR ACTUAL WORDS QUOTED  BACK TO YOU, do not hold up to simple questioning, scrutiny or reality.

The continued rub you have against me and a few others around here is that we have no qualms at all about pointing it out, using your own words in quotes that you therefor cannot run from, and simple questions based on those quotes that you therefor can't bring yourself to answer in any straightforward way, lest you yourself confirm that you can't support your own claims.

Only YOU have the power to prevent these sorts of confrontations from frustrating you by chipping away at your ego with a very sharp and pointy thing called reality, by not continuing to pretend that you're an expert who has the only valid opinion when you start typing.

Whether you do or not is up to you, but it's way past time that you stop blaming the messengers, and take a long look in the mirror instead, if you want to get to the bottom of what you're experiencing in your interactions with others.


----------



## unpopular (Jun 20, 2015)

So, in other words you have no prepress knowledge whatsoever, and are thus completely unqualified to question whether or not my point is valid.

And, I said that Adobe holds a virtual monopoly as a result of their industry standard position, and this does have to do with the printing industry. I never said that Adobe was the only image editor or [blah blah blah], only that because if it's use in a production setting it has become what it is. I likewise said that Adobe is a "virtual" monopoly, not an actual one - and it is.

The *overwhelming majority* of professionals use Adobe products in print and photography. The market is so cornered and users sufficiently satisfied enough that there is little incentive to publish a competing product. Corel is essentially the only package that even comes close (that I know of anyway, since you're completely incapable of filling in those kind of blanks) - and from my experience, Corel files pose serious challenges in preflight. I will admit I don't know how much of this is user error and how much of this is software shortcomings and incompatibility (which in an Adobe-centered world really _is _a shortcoming).

If Adobe dropped out of the print market for some reason, then yes, printers would find options with existing software, and existing software would likewise focus on the opened market to develop better tools. But frankly, that's true even if computers ceased to exist and we'd be back in the darkroom. But again, the fact that I even have to acknowledge this shows you have literally no concept of what modern offset production entails.


----------



## Buckster (Jun 21, 2015)

Wow.

It's not even worth the time and effort to write out another actual response, when you're going to be that oblivious to reality, even when it's pointed out to you.

I think you should consider 'shopping some blinders on that ass in your avatar.

Good luck with your condition, or whatever it is.


----------



## unpopular (Jun 21, 2015)

In the _*professional *_image editing and graphic design market Adobe holds a virtual monopoly.

Unless you think that Broderbund is a publisher of professional software...


----------



## BananaRepublic (Jun 23, 2015)

Update on my original post. I received the long awaited email from the big wigs in the technical service division about 7 days ago, this after 2 and a half months of "escalation" but what can you do .  So they said in the email that I would have too give my permission to Adobe to reactivate my account, the one they closed and the power of christ could not open again,  in order for them to give me a refund. They went on to say that I would need to go back onto live chat and quote a reference number they gave within.

After 5 days of trying to get on to live chat I finally got connected, remember I have no official Adobe ID therefore I could not log in to get the specific chat forum that was required meaning I had to go through the switch board so to speak. I got on to a person and stated the reference number as required he could not deal with the issue so he transferred me to the "Concern" department and again I stated the reference and the long and short of what she said was "I have escalated your concern to the relevant team and they will email you in 2 to 3 days. I asked to for a manager and she said that was not possible.

So given the groundhog day time loop I was stuck in I trawled the inter web and found a contact number for Adobe customer service in Ireland so I rang it yesterday it was a Dublin local call phone number. I was connected to a call centre in India, nothing necessarily wrong or unusual with this, but I told the women the reference number as stated in the email she transferred me to a guy in the "Concern" department and like live chat he could not cope with a dynamic scenario. So I had to explain the whole thing to him, I doubt he comprehended it though. Anyway he said he would escalate my case and I would hear from someone in 24 to 48 hours I explained to him that I have in fact received and given my permission to reactivate my account but "computer says no" and he quoted a reference number to me that was the number I gave him.



Today I have also gone onto Adobes Facebook page and posted several times under different articles that "Adobes customer service is terrible" An Adobe rep commented on these asking me to privately send my reference number in order that this be cleared up


----------



## BananaRepublic (Jun 23, 2015)

So after staging a dirty protest on the Adobe Facebook page and threatening to continue with same everyday until there is a resolution to my problem I got a phone call from Adobes escalation department and they are now attempting to resolve it asap. So its a case of man bites dog but part of says you can never beat city hall.


----------



## Dao (Jun 23, 2015)

There is a reason why Adobe had an open letter few years ago.  If customer still need to jump through hoops to get thing resolves today, they may not improve much since then.

http://blogs.adobe.com/captivate/files/captivate/OpenLettertoAdobeCustomers.pdf


----------



## Braineack (Jun 23, 2015)

Just get taylor swift to complain and they'll fix their problems that same day.


----------



## BananaRepublic (Jun 23, 2015)

Braineack said:


> Just get taylor swift to complain and they'll fix their problems that same day.



If only I knew her number


----------



## BananaRepublic (Jun 23, 2015)

Dao said:


> There is a reason why Adobe had an open letter few years ago.  If customer still need to jump through hoops to get thing resolves today, they may not improve much since then.
> 
> http://blogs.adobe.com/captivate/files/captivate/OpenLettertoAdobeCustomers.pdf



They made an apology by blaming someone else. I think I will send an email to this guy vice presidento El global corporationo


----------



## BananaRepublic (Jun 24, 2015)

Further update on the situation, They have now issued a refund and the funds will be lodged to me in 3 to 5 days according to the email I received this morning. This have come from the global escalation team

My advice for people whom have ongoing trouble with Adobe is to just take it out on there Facebook page and they will rectify the issue farely lively


----------



## BananaRepublic (Jun 25, 2015)

After post my frustrations directly on Adobes Facebook page they quickly solved my problem the text below is just my response to conclude this issue  which I posted to there Facebook page

I got a refund from Adobe today which is welcome, this after 2 and a half months of been escalated round and round the houses . It is a sad testament and a real black eye for Adobe Creative Cloud that I was forced to go to this public forum in order to escalate things to a conclusion. This is a great product but the customer service is poor and leaves it down. What is really needed is a strong competitor to smash this monopoly.


----------



## Derrel (Jun 25, 2015)

BananaRepublic said:
			
		

> So after staging a dirty protest on the Adobe Facebook page and threatening to continue with same everyday until there is a resolution to my problem I got a phone call from Adobes escalation department and they are now attempting to resolve it asap. So its a case of man bites dog but part of says you can never beat city hall.



Where is that one poster,* you know the guy*, to tell you that you are full of ***+, and that Adobe really is an awesome, fun, amazing, perfect, brilliant company with A-level customer service and 100% customer satisfaction? Because...you know, they are A_d_o_b_e....and that ALL of this issue was entirely your own damned fault?


----------



## Buckster (Jun 25, 2015)

Check the Boogie-Man Locker in your own mind.  I think that's your best bet for finding your own fictional characters.


----------

