# Give Me Your Favorite Method Of Doging & Burn in PS



## smoke665 (May 17, 2021)

The flexibility of PS to do the same thing multiple different ways is confusing for many when it comes to choosing the right method for the image at hand. You can work destructively on the image itself with the D&B tools, or nondestructively with a 50% gray layer and D&B tools. You can add a 50% gray layer and use a white or black brush to D&B, or  D&B with a curves layer and mask. Then you get into selections combined with D&B either manual, or frequency,  the list of options available goes on and on. 

Personally I prefer non-destructive but from there I might use any or all of the others, with curves adjustment layers and masks being the primary for global and localized.

How about others? What do you use, why?


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## ronlane (May 17, 2021)

I use non-destructive and will make a stamped layer if I were just using the d&b brushes but most of the time, I either use a 50% grey layer and the d&b brushes or I use a curves layer for dodge and one for burn. Why? Good question, both work effectively and it basically depends on the mood I'm in. I have actions that I have gotten for free that make setting up easy.


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## smoke665 (May 17, 2021)

ronlane said:


> I use non-destructive and will make a stamped layer if I were just using the d&b brushes but most of the time, I either use a 50% grey layer and the d&b brushes or I use a curves layer for dodge and one for burn. Why? Good question, both work effectively and it basically depends on the mood I'm in. I have actions that I have gotten for free that make setting up easy.



Actually using a stamped layer is destructive if you consider that doing so locks in all the layers below. Any adjustments made to those lower layers after will not be reflected above the stamped layer.

I occasionally use D&B brushes on a 50% gray layer, but there seems to be more color/saturation shift the more you do. If it's a light D&B I'll sometimes do both on the same gray layer, with the Dodge brush active, and Alt key to switch to Burn. It's extremely fast, but theres no good way to adjust for color or saturation shift. You likely already know this, but for those that don't, when you use a 50% gray layer you don't need to select Highlights, Midtones, or Shadows, when using the D&B tools the gray layer makes that step irrelevant.

Separate curves layers set to luminosity and a clipped Hue/Saturation layer work extremely well, but take time to build up the effect. A curves layer combined with luminosity masks work well for global D&B. It also works well for working micro contrast if you intersect the highlights/shadows with themselves to create increasing levels of each.

Do you use a 50% gray layer set to color blend or a desaturated layer as guides when doing D&B?

I also utilize various actions to set up as much as possible. Over the years I've mostly accumulated custom actions. My technique seems to be in a constant state of flux, requiring occasional modification to actions as required.


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## Original katomi (May 17, 2021)

I am probably doing it all wrong
However you asked
If I have the need to dodge and or burn I use layers
I just call up a new layer do a section of bodge or burn I then use the turn on off option on that layer to see if I am happy with the effect
Then I will call up a new layer 
Repeat as needed with a save as version a,b,c, a1 ,,,z2 ect
Ok lots of layers, but I can always go back a stage or three-if I much thing up
Ok I know there are  probably better ways but that my method


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## Ysarex (May 17, 2021)

I used to use mostly blending modes and layer masks to do that type of work. I never used the burn/dodge tool for any reason.


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## smoke665 (May 17, 2021)

Ysarex said:


> I used to use mostly blending modes and layer masks to do that type of work. I never used the burn/dodge tool for any reason.


Did you use a desaturated layer or a 50% gray layer set to Color Blend as guides when dodging and burning?


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## Ysarex (May 17, 2021)

smoke665 said:


> Did you use a desaturated layer or a 50% gray layer set to Color Blend as guides when dodging and burning?


All depends on the desired result -- most often a duplicate of the layer being altered and then control for saturation changes etc,, for example one option is to use a Lab L layer.


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## Original katomi (May 17, 2021)

Ok stupid question
What is the icon.. blue and round must be a new one
Ok don’t worry just found out.
Thanks Smoke


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## smoke665 (May 17, 2021)

Original katomi said:


> Ok stupid question
> What is the icon.. blue and round must be a new one
> Ok don’t worry just found out.
> Thanks Smoke



Okay.....you're welcome......I  don't have a clue what you just said. LOL


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## weepete (May 17, 2021)

I'll do general ones with layer masks and photography tools, sometimes luminance masking but I'll do a finer, seperate dodge and burn layers using the 50% grey layer at the end most of the time if I'm in photoshop.

Now range masking is avalible in lightroom I use that most of all


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## oldhippy (May 17, 2021)

I use a copy from LR. If I make a mistake in PS I can go back several steps, or get a new copy from LR and start over. Not a fan of layers.


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## JBPhotog (May 17, 2021)

I never use the D&B tools as they are destructive. Always on a separate layer mostly with curves or levels which allows for blend mode adjustments and layer masks. Luminosity masks are sometimes used in combination but inevitably my Wacom tablet does the fine detail work.

If saturation or lack of it is an issue, a clipping layer can be added to that D&B layer.


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## Ysarex (May 17, 2021)

smoke665 said:


> The flexibility of PS to do the same thing multiple different ways is confusing for many when it comes to choosing the right method for the image at hand. You can work destructively on the image itself with the D&B tools, or nondestructively with a 50% gray layer and D&B tools. You can add a 50% gray layer and use a white or black brush to D&B, or  D&B with a curves layer and mask. Then you get into selections combined with D&B either manual, or frequency,  the list of options available goes on and on.
> 
> Personally I prefer non-destructive but from there I might use any or all of the others, with curves adjustment layers and masks being the primary for global and localized.
> 
> How about others? What do you use, why?


I told everyone a couple months ago that I finally removed Adobe CC from my computers since the prospect that I'll end up back in the classroom is looking pretty slim. I did go ahead and re-install an old copy of CS6 I still have just in case I need something. So here's an example of what I would typically do. Using smart objects and avoiding any clone/heal work this edit is 100% raw-workflow non-destructive and non-linearly re-editable. (I'm a raving lunatic about that). No other raster editor can do that as far as I know.


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## smoke665 (May 17, 2021)

JBPhotog said:


> never use the D&B tools as they are destructive



That depends, using D&B tools on a stamped copy would be, but using them on a 50% gray layer isn't.


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## JBPhotog (May 17, 2021)

smoke665 said:


> That depends, using D&B tools on a stamped copy would be, but using them on a 50% gray layer isn't.


Isn’t the point of a grey layer so you can use a black or white brush to paint in the D&B using a blend mode?


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## smoke665 (May 18, 2021)

JBPhotog said:


> Isn’t the point of a grey layer so you can use a black or white brush to paint in the D&B using a blend mode?



I've used both and never been able to determine much difference in effect, other than the tools might be a tad faster in building up the effect and less prone to hue/saturation shift if you make sure to check the "protect tones box.

For example here's a comparison of dodging and burning methods. I raised the opacity of the first two well above what I normally use for illustration. In the curves layer the opacity of the brush was at 100% which is also well above what you would normally use. First is a White & Black brush on a 50% gray layer set to soft light. Second is using the D&B tools on a 50% gray layer set to soft light. Finally using curves layers set to luminosity. I suspect that some of the variations in density are likely due to pen pressure and an unsteady hand.


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## JBPhotog (May 18, 2021)

FWIW, using Curves or Levels are more powerful since they let you go back and adjust it to either lessen or strengthen the effect without redoing the mask. They also let you adjust each colour channel independently which may assist if either RGB channel starts to over react. My preferred method with the brush is to keep Opacity at 100% and adjust the Flow, it has finer control as you can build up the effect and not have to lift the brush, using a Wacom tablet.

Horses for courses.


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## smoke665 (May 18, 2021)

@JBPhotog I've never used Levels as a D&B,  always found Curves more responsive for my needs, no reason why it shouldn't work.

The only real difference that I'm aware of between Opacity and Flow is how the strokes build up. As long as you don't lift up the pen, Opacity will be even at your maximum opacity no matter how many times you go over a spot. As you say, Flow will build up based on the number of times you go over something without lifting the pen. I normally set Opacity to pen pressure, and flow usually 50-60, which seems to work better for me, as I'm constantly lifting and moving.


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## JBPhotog (May 18, 2021)

Flow acts more like a real marker, the more you go over the same spot the more density you build up. Not to say that Opacity has no purpose, it does, one can set Opacity to 50% and then Flow to 5% for incremental build up. I found that Flow avoids the banding one can get with only using Opacity to change the density.

My pen pressure is set to Size not Opacity, this allows me to paint really small areas without having to reset the size of my brush as I move through different areas of the subject even though my lower pen button is set to resize & hardness.


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## ronlane (May 22, 2021)

@smoke665. I see what you are saying IF you do the D&B on the stamped layer. After thinking about it I have been noticing what I am doing lately. I am using the 50% grey layers or curves layers for my D&B. Something that I have noticed this week is that if you do a stamped visible layer and then continue to add adjustment layers above that, you can delete the stamped layer after and you still have a non-destructive workflow.

For example, I have been doing cleanup and Frequency separation to a photo then after that, I want to darken the background and not the subject. I stamp the layer, select subject and make a curves layer. Then I can delete the stamped layer, invert the mask and darken the background. I also do this to add an Orton effect to my image as well after making all the other adjustments that I wanted to make..


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## smoke665 (May 22, 2021)

ronlane said:


> see what you are saying IF you do the D&B on the stamped layer.



Yes but using a stamped layer goes beyond just this. Using your example you use a stamped copy to make a selection to create a mask for a curves adjustment layer and then delete the stamped layer. Yes deleting the stamped layer negates any further effect, but suppose later you add another stamped copy at the top of the stack and apply a filter to it. You're now stopped from making changes to the underlying curves layer, and you can't delete the filter layer without redoing it.


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## mezcalpaloma (May 24, 2021)

My goto technique for dodging and burning is: 
Add a blank (transparent) layer above the layer to be adjusted.
Set the blend mode of the new layer to Overlay. 
To burn in, paint on this layer with a (normal mode) black brush at 100% opacity, 1% flow, 0% hardness. 
To dodge, use a white brush with the same settings. 
If you want, you can create separate such layers for dodge and burn.

It's non-destructive and usually yields a good result pretty quickly. There's a small learning curve. I think I learned it from Dan Margulis' "Professional Photoshop"; but it's been a while.

This technique can sometimes produce undesirable saturation side effects. Then I'll find another way; but this is the first technique I reach for.


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## johngpt (May 25, 2021)

mezcalpaloma said:


> My goto technique for dodging and burning is:
> Add a blank (transparent) layer above the layer to be adjusted.
> Set the blend mode of the new layer to Overlay.
> To burn in, paint on this layer with a (normal mode) black brush at 100% opacity, 1% flow, 0% hardness.
> ...


What you've described has pretty much become my preferred method for dodging and burning. Just set a new layer to either Overlay blend mode or Soft Light blend mode and gradually paint with black or white. 
I will also "paint through" a selection taken from a luminosity based channel.
Often I'll have already created a series of Light and Dark luminosity based channels. Ctrl + click to select the channel I want.
Then painting on the layer that was set to Overlay blend mode will be feathered to the area I want. This is something I learned from Tony Kuyper in his luminosity channel tutorials. I don't bother with the panels he sells. My old computer won't handle them.
I can reduce opacity of that Overlay layer if needed. 
Or I can link a Curves layer to it and increase the effect by dragging the curve if the layer wasn't first filled with 50% grey. I've found filling with grey isn't really necessary.

If I have more than a small area to dodge or burn, I'll Ctrl - click on a luminosity layer and then click on a Curves layer to open it. It opens already using the luminosity channel as a mask.


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## smoke665 (May 25, 2021)

mezcalpaloma said:


> This technique can sometimes produce undesirable saturation side effects. Then I'll find another way; but this is the first technique I reach for.



That's a common problem to some extent regardless of method. Unless it's just minor dodging & burning I'll use multiple layers and clip a Hue/Saturation to each to offset the tonal shift.


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## mezcalpaloma (May 25, 2021)

johngpt said:


> What you've described has pretty much become my preferred method for dodging and burning. Just set a new layer to either Overlay blend mode or Soft Light blend mode and gradually paint with black or white.
> I will also "paint through" a selection taken from a luminosity based channel.
> Often I'll have already created a series of Light and Dark luminosity based channels. Ctrl + click to select the channel I want.
> Then painting on the layer that was set to Overlay blend mode will be feathered to the area I want. This is something I learned from Tony Kuyper in his luminosity channel tutorials. I don't bother with the panels he sells. My old computer won't handle them.
> ...


I'm gonna try this out tomorrow. Thanks for the tip!


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## smoke665 (May 26, 2021)

mezcalpaloma said:


> I'm gonna try this out tomorrow. Thanks for the tip



No problem. You can also clip a Curves or Levels layer, which can do the same, i just always found the H/S layer easier for me.


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## adamhiram (May 27, 2021)

This isn't quite what you asked, but I tend to use the radial filter tool in LR to do most of my dodging and burning.  Most of the time, I am happy with the rounded regions with very feathered edges this creates, and can use a combination of exposure, highlights, shadows, whites, and blacks to affect the area of the photo as desired.


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## smoke665 (May 27, 2021)

adamhiram said:


> This isn't quite what you asked, but I tend to use the radial filter tool in LR to do most of my dodging and burning.  Most of the time, I am happy with the rounded regions with very feathered edges this creates, and can use a combination of exposure, highlights, shadows, whites, and blacks to affect the area of the photo as desired.


Both the radial and gradiant filter offer adjustment capability. Plus combine them with either + or - brushes, and you'd have selective adjustments as well.


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