# How to meter white birds/BIF



## SuzukiGS750EZ (Jun 21, 2019)

Hey guys. I shoot with a canon 80D & mostly a tamron 150-600 G2. I'm getting mixed results when shooting. Before I go into detail about my simple and probably wrong process, can someone explain to me how to shoot white birds in flight or in the water and expose properly. I usually shoot 1/2000 f8 or f5 depending on situation and focal length. The birds I shoot most are osprey and egrets. I find some of my shots to be less than pleasing to me. Here is a shot I think I did ok on, but normally the osprey are really dark or the egrets are blown out.

IMG_0114


----------



## snowbear (Jun 21, 2019)

I'm guessing the meter is reading the darker background, which is ta larger part of the scene.  Try spot metering or drop the exposure a bit.  You might be able to test settings shooting a small white paper plate taped to a darker surface like a wall or tree.


----------



## RVT1K (Jun 21, 2019)

I agree with trying spot metering when shooting birds. Just make sure the spot is actually on the bird. 
I'm more concerned with the bird being well exposed as opposed to the surroundings.


----------



## zombiesniper (Jun 21, 2019)

Spot metering is best for this. You may have to also use + on the exposure comp in order to get the bid the right colour. 1/2-3/4 exp comp normally will do it.
Even if the spot meter is calculating for the white, it will want to bring it back to about a 13% grey. That's where using the exposure comp comes in to bring it back to white.


----------



## SuzukiGS750EZ (Jun 21, 2019)

How do you get the meter/exposure ready before the shot? I do spot meter but shooting BIF things change on the fly.


----------



## RVT1K (Jun 21, 2019)

SuzukiGS750EZ said:


> How do you get the meter/exposure ready before the shot? I do spot meter but shooting BIF things change on the fly.



If you've set the shutter and f-stop, the exposure is going to be determined by the ISO you set the camera to. What mode do you typically use i.e. aperture priority, shutter priority...

Spot metering is a camera setting that forces the camera to only look at a very small spot in the entire frame and base the exposure on that small area

But you've also highlighted one of the challenges of nature photography and that is vastly changing conditions. 

You need to be prepared to get a lot more misses than hits.


----------



## SuzukiGS750EZ (Jun 21, 2019)

I shoot full manual, but as you mention... I choose Auto ISO. Is that my downfall?


----------



## RVT1K (Jun 21, 2019)

SuzukiGS750EZ said:


> I shoot full manual, but as you mention... I choose Auto ISO. Is that my downfall?



It may contribute but I still feel that the mixed exposure results are from the camera meetering from something other than the bird you are shooting at the time. I'm also basing that on the good pictures you posted, you got it right in those.

There's lots of ways to get to the same place. I almost exclusively use aperture priority when shooting to control the DOF and adjust the ISO to get a shutter speed I feel I need for the situation.


----------



## snowbear (Jun 21, 2019)

I also think the spot metering is going to be the key.  You could test the ISO setting by comparing various ISO values to the Auto ISO, using your normal aperture and shutter speed ranges.  Just pick a small light object to meter before you go looking for the birds.


----------



## zulu42 (Jun 21, 2019)

I don't get along with auto ISO for BIF. They move from a bright to a dark background and auto ISO is going to change the resulting exposure brightness based on the background, when the exposure for the bird shouldn't change. If you can keep your spot meter only on the bird in flight... you're a better shooter than me.

My method is to meter the general scene to preserve highlight detail with ISO, then leave ISO unchanged unless the overall lighting conditions change. Just what currently works for me.


----------



## weepete (Jun 21, 2019)

Yes, it can be challenging. I tend to try and snap a shot and check the histogram, adjust, check till I have the ballpark settings. I did that when shooting puffins and kittywakes when they were moving from shade to sunlight. That way I knew I needed +2EC for the puffins in the sunlight, -2EC for the kittywakes in the shade, and just bounced between settings. 

Recently I was shooting some black headed gulls on a very dark background, luckily there was a swan I could meter off, and I just metered off the trees for the ospreys till I could get but they never fished. If they did i guess I would have just hit and hoped.


----------



## ac12 (Jun 21, 2019)

Another option is to shoot manual, and start with the Sunny-16 rule, then adjust from there.
That way the background lighting won't affect the exposure.


----------



## zombiesniper (Jun 22, 2019)

RVT1K said:


> SuzukiGS750EZ said:
> 
> 
> > How do you get the meter/exposure ready before the shot? I do spot meter but shooting BIF things change on the fly.
> ...





SuzukiGS750EZ said:


> I shoot full manual, but as you mention... I choose Auto ISO. Is that my downfall?



As has been stated above there are many ways to get the correct exposure, AV/TV/Manual.

I shoot as you are Manual with ISO auto. This is and is not your problem.

The problem
Why it is causing you grief with a white bird is not really your camera setting so much as it is the camera is set to meter for about a %13 grey. This will darken white and lighten black subjects. No matter your shooting mode, if the camera has any choice it will meter for 13% grey.
I'll demonstrate the problem with a few images.

I shot this flower first with the settings below.
Camera set to manual with auto ISO
1/4000 F4    (ISO chosen by the camera) ISO 100
No exposure compensation.

As you can see the camera under exposed by quite a bit



no comp by Trevor Baldwin, on Flickr


Now I raised my exposure compensation.
1/4000 F4 Exposure comp at +2/3  (ISO chosen by the camera) ISO 100
A little better but not quite there yet.




+23 by Trevor Baldwin, on Flickr


Now I raised my exposure compensation again.
1/4000 F4 Exposure comp at +1 1/3  (ISO chosen by the camera) ISO 125
This is almost right.




+113 by Trevor Baldwin, on Flickr

I could have used another +1/3 to be perfect but it can be hard to tell on a really bright day on the back lcd screen.


One way you can solve the issue is to set up your custom functions so that when you press the set button in the middle of the thumb wheel on the back of the camera to change your shutter speed wheel to exposure compensation. This will allow you to dial in the exposure more precisely. This procedure is only really required when shooting near back or near white objects.
Outside of changing the exposure comp you would have to shoot full manual and set the exposure yourself. If the camera is allowed to set even one parameter ie shutter or aperture priority you will continue to run into this problem.

If you need help in setting up the exposure comp button as I have described let me know. Jr. has the 80D and I've done this with his.


----------



## ac12 (Jun 22, 2019)

SuzukiGS750EZ said:


> I shoot full manual, but as you mention... I choose Auto ISO. Is that my downfall?



Yes.
Auto ISO means _the camera is adjusting the exposure by adjusting the ISO level._
Therefore, you are NOT in full manual.
To be in full manual, you need to be in control of the 3 sides of the exposure triangle; shutter speed, aperture, ISO level.
You need to turn the mode to M (manual) and turn auto ISO OFF, to be in full manual.


----------



## zombiesniper (Jun 22, 2019)

ac12 said:


> SuzukiGS750EZ said:
> 
> 
> > I shoot full manual, but as you mention... I choose Auto ISO. Is that my downfall?
> ...



Absolute GARBAGE reply unless you can explain WHY it would benefit him.


----------



## ac12 (Jun 22, 2019)

zombiesniper said:


> ac12 said:
> 
> 
> > SuzukiGS750EZ said:
> ...



Since YOU think it is garbage, why don't YOU explain it.


----------



## zombiesniper (Jun 23, 2019)

I do think it was a garbage post. It in no way aided the OP in solving their problem.

Why would I explain it? You posted some crap to try and make yourself look superior and got called on it. You're acting like a child.


----------



## Derrel (Jun 23, 2019)

ac12 said:


> SuzukiGS750EZ said:
> 
> 
> > I shoot full manual, but as you mention... I choose Auto ISO. Is that my downfall?
> ...



Full manual versus manual with AUTO ISO enabled...two subtly different things.

In the daisy in front of brown background example that zulu42 showed, note that we have a small white-petaled flower, surrounded by about 89 percent of the frame being a dark brown color. The tone curve is important here--the situation has VERY high contrast...white flower, dark background. The most critical thing is not to blow out the highlights, and then to apply the right degree of contrast to make the shadows look good, so we have a need for post processing and careful exposure setting in-camera.

There is the field stage and the computer stage. In you OP, you show a small-in-frame white bird seen against a pretty dark background...I would guess that as much as 1.7 EV of exposure compensation might be needed with this scene, and maybe some computer "tone work" to make the scene read right.


----------

