# tmax 3200 pushed?



## thebeginning (Apr 23, 2006)

Has anyone pushed kodak p3200?  I want to push it two stops to try something, i just want to make sure it will work fine and not get too contrasty.  i'll probably be using d-76 or something similar to rodinal.  thanks!


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## terri (Apr 24, 2006)

I haven't. Want me to move this thread someplace else, maybe to the Q&A or to the darkroom forum? You might get more views that way. Just holler.


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## thebeginning (Apr 24, 2006)

actually yes, that would be great! I'm not sure which one though. you can decide 

I think i might have accidentally posted it in here and meant to have posted it in the darkroom forum...but it doesnt matter.


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## terri (Apr 24, 2006)

thebeginning said:
			
		

> actually yes, that would be great! I'm not sure which one though. you can decide
> 
> I think i might have accidentally posted it in here and meant to have posted it in the darkroom forum...but it doesnt matter.


I'll move it to the darkroom and we'll see what kind of nibbles you get. Can always move it again. It can be the traveling thread.


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## Hertz van Rental (Apr 24, 2006)

Most B&W films can be pushed.
The downside is increased grain size, loss of shadow contrast and an increase in highlight contrast. You also tend to get an increase in base level fog.
If you are processing in D-76 then the rule of thumb is an increase in exposure time of 20% per stop.
If the normal processing time is 'x' then:
1 stop = x + 20% = x1
2 stop = x1 + 20%
The normal limits for pushing is 2 stops. Going beyond that the results tend to be very poor and generally unacceptable.
Tmax 3200 (according to Kodak) can be pushed 3 stops. But you need to use Tmax RS developer.
3 stops will give you ISO 25,000!!
As with all experiments with pushing, it is wisest to shoot a test roll first as all processing times are only guesstimates and you need to check that it works and make adjustments.


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## thebeginning (Apr 24, 2006)

yeah i've pushed alot of film before, just not 3200.  thanks for the info!


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## ksmattfish (Apr 24, 2006)

Read the Tmax 3200p tech pub (at kodak.com), and you'll find out that Tmax 3200 is really Tmax 800.  My experiences with Tmax 3200 shot at 1600 and 3200 is that it is pretty contrasty, and the grain is very coarse.  I've had finer grain results pushing Tri-X 400 and Tmax 400 to 1600 or 3200.  I'll admit that I've only shot about 2 dozen rolls of the Tmax 3200 though, and hundreds of rolls of Tri-X, so I've definately put more effort into figuring out pushed Tri-X.


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## thebeginning (Apr 24, 2006)

well i'm trying a few things to get alot of grain (hot water for stop bath is one i might try), and i might push 3200 two stops for fun, just to see.


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## Meysha (Apr 25, 2006)

I pushed tmax 3200 just one stop only last week!  (although I'm not like you hard core darkies... I got it developed at a lab)

It turned out nice and grainy but it did become very contrasty with just being pushed one stop... so be careful with the 2 stops!

I've actually had better results pushing Ilford 3200 one stop. The contrast wasn't as extreme although it was increased... and there was lots of nice big grain. And the highlights still had good detail in them.

Unfortunately last time I pushed Ilford 3200 the lab forgot to push it... and developed it at 3200. Bastards. :-(


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## thebeginning (Apr 25, 2006)

is that the delta 3200? i've actually heard good things about that from alot of places, maybe i'll try it instead.


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## Meysha (Apr 25, 2006)

yep delta 3200.

I'd scan you in some of my pics but my scanner isn't scanning properly at the moment. It's stuck on black and white and wont scan in grey scale. GRRR!


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## Jeff Canes (Apr 26, 2006)

thebeginning said:
			
		

> well i'm trying a few things to get alot of grain *(hot water for stop bath is one i might try)*, and i might push 3200 two stops for fun, just to see.


 Reticulation, if I recall right this cause large black dot and also can cause cracking. Only tried it myself a few time, first back in the 80&#8217;s with plus-x it worked OK, then I tried it  last year with the last plus-x it but send to have no effect (most new films are engineered to reduce conmen errors), I have been think about try it again but this time with Adox/Efke film it has an old style emulsions


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## Hertz van Rental (Apr 26, 2006)

If you put film into a very cold solution from quite a hot one you can get reticulation. This is just thermal shock. The gelatine goes warm, soft and expands. Plunging it into a cold solution makes the emulsion contract rapidly. The end result tends to look like baked earth in a drought with big cracks or tears all over the emulsion. Not recommended. 
If the temperature differential between solutions isn't so extreme (something like 5 - 15C) you usually get micro-reticulation. This is reticulation on a reduced scale.
Micro-reticulation is very common, most people actually mistaking it for bad grain as that is exactly what it looks like.


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## thebeginning (Apr 26, 2006)

yeah good point.  i keep my other chemicals lukewarm to slightly warm anyway, so i'm not too worried about that much reticulation...


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## RacePhoto (Feb 26, 2007)

Actually I've had this photo for about 38 years, and I was waiting for someone to ask this question. 

The 38 year old print is true. I think (and please understand after 38 years I may have forgotten some details) this was taken with Walgreen's 120 B&W film. Probably a twin lens Rollie.

Developed normally at room Temp. Run through a normal Temp. Stop bath and Normal fix. Then I poured cold water into the tank for the rinse. (yes I did it on purpose) Step back about 10 feet from the computer to see what the print really looked like. I made this into an 11 x 14.

One thing I liked about this cheapo film, which was probably re-branded Agfa or who knows what, but not Kodak, was that it produced the nice little "Y" shaped puckers. Other film would clump up in popcorn shapes, but more random.










I don't remember trying this with 35 mm because the reticulation would have produced larger clumps of gelatin relative to the image size.

But then, I could be wrong and my memory could be faulty and this could be bulk loaded film and 35mm. I just recall that I like the Walgreen's house brand for the shape of the clumps.

I seem to remember some experiments with taking already processed negatives, washing the frame I wanted in warm rinse and plunging it into nearly ice cold water, so I would have to ruin a whole roll of film to get one image with some treatment.

As for pushing film, I'd have to dig into the archives for the negatives using Tri-X pushed to 1600 using warm Acufine. It worked, and I did it often. If you want speed and nice grain, but a nice look considering, try Kodak 2475 High Speed film.

Same deal. You can shoot it at 800, 1000 or 1600 depending on how you process it, or 3200 if you use some hot soup. I hope they still make it?


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## newrmdmike (Feb 26, 2007)

coooooooooooooooooool


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## Don Simon (Feb 26, 2007)

Presumably you can get away with more extreme pushing (in terms of courseness of grain at least) with a larger negative. In the interests of research I think the 120 Delta in my fridge is going to get punished.


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## Majik Imaje (Mar 3, 2007)

Experiments ?  or because you don't have a tripod?

when I first saw this thread  push 3200 ! sorry but I laughed and asked my self?

what are you taking a photo of ? a black suit in a dark closet at midnight ?


You can push black & white film to extremes and get decent results, I guess. I was never much at pushing b&w film.. I have tried it extensively, with good/great results


you can't push color film very far... EVERYONE will tell you that.. even Kodak... 


I DIDN'T LISTEN..I was forced to push color film to shut up a woman that would not shut up! she demanded photos in a place that was impossible for me to accomplish. 

go outside with a roll of vericolor 100 ISO  shoot it at 400 or 800

ha ha ha ha..  NOW DEVELOP THAT FILM and your gonna fall over, when you see the results!

KODAK DID.. I sent them 100's of photos with the negatives!

even pushed it up to 1600!  

I was doing this in 1974... they told me to get this process patented!

I wasted thousands of dollars trying to patent something.. "that WAS.. becoming 'COMMON KNOWLEDGE"  Dale Neville - Rangefinder magazine was telling PROFESSIONALS to push vericolor to 200 ISO for WEDDINGS! and send the film to him.  I dare say.. push it to 400 and your going to fall over when you see the results..  30% for each stop pushed !

temp increase of  .25 degree  C-41


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## Meysha (Mar 12, 2007)

How about this for a laugh... I'm going to push some out of date black and white C41 film from 400 - 6400. hmmm... I'll let you all know what happens.

and what was I taking photos of? you're right - black clothes in a dark studio. Muso's don't like light. But my god they look good when pushed 3200-6400. 400 - 6400 is purely an experiment.


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