# not accurate colors, mark III 5D



## Roomka (May 5, 2014)

Been trying all day to make these pictures look the way they are in real life, but keep getting like blue tint, any advise?


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## ShaneF (May 5, 2014)

Have you set your white balance for the shot or in post?


Im sure more qualified help is coming.. Thats all i got im still a newb..


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## Roomka (May 5, 2014)

yeah i used a grey card


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## ShaneF (May 5, 2014)

Well i cant really offer any advice because i have no experience with this myself, except i know your gonna be asked what your set up for lighting is and if you are using a 100% white backdrop not just white paper.


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## Scatterbrained (May 5, 2014)

Are you working on a calibrated monitor?   Can you show us your set up?  What are you using for WB?


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## Roomka (May 5, 2014)

yeah my monitor is a NEC pa271w, did the calibration not really sure how to show the calibration. the WB is a grey card i bought online, its neutral 18%
also the light box is using 1 CFL bulb, 5500k


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## Scatterbrained (May 5, 2014)

When you say you did the calibration, what did you use?  I only ask because I've seen an awful lot of people try to calibrate by eye, so I want to make sure that's not what we're dealing with here.   You shot the grey card in the same spot as the watch and used that shot in post to set WB?  Granted the NEC monitors come from the factory with a pretty good calibration.   I'm on my laptop right now so I can't comment on the colors (my laptop always tends a bit blue), just trying to make sure the bases are covered.   You should be able to get the background neutral with the eyedropper, that may however mean that other colors are shifted a bit depending on whether or not the background is actually neutral.


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## The_Traveler (May 5, 2014)

Scatterbrained said:


> When you say you did the calibration, what did you use?  I only ask because I've seen an awful lot of people try to calibrate by eye, so I want to make sure that's not what we're dealing with here. *  You shot the grey card in the same spot as the watch and used that shot in post to set WB?*  Granted the NEC monitors come from the factory with a pretty good calibration.   I'm on my laptop right now so I can't comment on the colors (my laptop always tends a bit blue), just trying to make sure the bases are covered.   You should be able to get the background neutral with the eyedropper, that may however mean that other colors are shifted a bit depending on whether or not the background is actually neutral.



This^

Is the background neutral?
What color is the watch face supposed to be.


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## Roomka (May 5, 2014)

well calibration was done with NEC spectraview View attachment 73101


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## Roomka (May 5, 2014)

the watch face is a silver

i took a picture with my nikon d5100, same grey card, same position

 nikon d5100

was using nikon for couple of years, and it has like 120k shots so moved to canon and kinda stuck with resetting it up.



 mark III 5D


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## KmH (May 5, 2014)

Part of your problem with the color temperature of the photos you have posted is under exposure.

Are you setting a custom white balance in the camera?

Your gray card may also be part of the problem. Many gray cards are not accurate.
The best gray card I have found in the Whibal card, and I also often use X-Rite's Color Checker Passport.

GENUINE WhiBal G7 Certified Neutral White Balance Card - Pocket Card (2.1"x3.35")
X-Rite MSCCPP ColorChecker Passport


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## gsgary (May 6, 2014)

The problem is not a camera problem it is a knowledge problem, and probably cheap lighting and tent, you would never see a pro product photographer use a tent


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## Roomka (May 6, 2014)

yeah i used this grey card Amazon.com: DGK Color Tools DGK-XL Extra Large Size 3 Card Set - 4" x 5" White Balance Card 18% Gray Card for Digital and Film Photography with Premium Lanyard: Camera & Photo , also on the canon 5D there is 2 different types of white balance settings. there is white balance and custom white balance. for the custom i pictured the grey card and for the white balance it set to auto.


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## The_Traveler (May 6, 2014)

Which are you using the custom white balance or the auto?


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## Roomka (May 6, 2014)

well it doesnt give me a choice to choose one, they are 2 different settings, 




setting in white balance 




setting in custom white balance  <- this is the grey card selected.


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## The_Traveler (May 6, 2014)

Never having shot with a Canon, I can only speak for my experience using other dSLRs and that is one chooses to use either auto wb or custom wb when actually making the shot.


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## Roomka (May 6, 2014)

now that i think about it, both white balance settings need to be in custom, i just put them to custom and no more green tint to the watches.


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## The_Traveler (May 6, 2014)

And un-blue the background, brighten the contrast


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## Roomka (May 6, 2014)

how did you unblue the background?


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## The_Traveler (May 6, 2014)

I used a color balance layer and adjusted the highlights area.
Still looks a bit green but I don't know what your real background color is, so I stopped messing around.

Lew


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## Scatterbrained (May 6, 2014)

BTW:  when you're shooting watches, it's customary to set the time to 10:10.  This allows the hour and minute hand to frame the manufacturers name/logo without covering it up.


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## The_Traveler (May 6, 2014)

If you want me to re-shoot these for you, just send me the watch.


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## Roomka (May 6, 2014)

yeah i always set to 1010 this was just a test shot, btw what would be the best setup to have to shoot watches, right now i have a real crappy setup 

ive been told that 2 speedlights would be the best because they have a pure white light, but as far as the box im not sure to use a tent or.......


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## Scatterbrained (May 6, 2014)

Roomka said:


> yeah i always set to 1010 this was just a test shot, btw what would be the best setup to have to shoot watches, right now i have a real crappy setup View attachment 73151View attachment 73152
> 
> ive been told that 2 speedlights would be the best because they have a pure white light, but as far as the box im not sure to use a tent or.......


For watches, or any other still life work, I'd rather have constant lights than speedlights.  Granted studio strobes are optimal but not necessary. It's important to be able to see what your lights are doing as you set them up, you can't do that with speedlights. 
  As far as set up goes, I would say it depends on what results you're going for.  If all you want is a white "drop shot"  the light tent will work, if you want to be doing "beauty" shots then you'll have to take the time to build the lighting to suit each watch.  I can show you three different watch shots and the set up will be different for each one.   It's really a matter of what you want to achieve and how much work you want to put into it.


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## runnah (May 6, 2014)

Just as an aside I think these type of watch shots are much better. 

Omega Watch / Misc / Desktop HD, iPhone, iPad Wallpapers

white just makes them look like kmart.

anyways...


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## Roomka (May 6, 2014)

well our site is http://elementintime.com/new_arrivals.aspx  so thats mostly what types of photos are done, these are products people buy so i wouldn't want them to be artistic, they would need to be looking as close as possible as if you were to hold them in your hands.


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## Scatterbrained (May 6, 2014)

runnah said:


> Just as an aside I think these type of watch shots are much better.
> 
> Omega Watch / Misc / Desktop HD, iPhone, iPad Wallpapers
> 
> ...



yep, that's the difference between a beauty shot and a drop shot, but if you're only taking one shot, you generally are going to want a drop shot for use in catalogs and online sales sites, but the beauty shots are definitely  more fun to make.       You _can_ make cool looking white seamless shots however. . . .


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## Roomka (May 6, 2014)

i did some cover shots for facebook but not like crazy artistic, 
but anyways what you were saying about constant lights is good advise, since i will needing to see what im taking before the actual shot


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## Scatterbrained (May 6, 2014)

Roomka said:


> well our site is Element In Time | New Arrivals  so thats mostly what types of photos are done, these are products people buy so i wouldn't want them to be artistic, they would need to be looking as close as possible as if you were to hold them in your hands.
> 
> 
> View attachment 73162



The problem there is that the watches all look flat and somewhat featureless.  Granted I'm just on my laptop right now, but I can't tell what surfaces are brushed and which are polished, it looks as if the surfaces of the watches are all uniform.  That's one of the unfortunate side effects of a light box, the uniform, soft light removes contrast, while also creating black reflections from the openings in unfortunate areas.   you're selling $12k watches, they would certainly benefit from better photography and processing.


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## runnah (May 6, 2014)

Scatterbrained said:


> you're selling $12k watches, they would certainly benefit from better photography and processing.




That was my impression.

Side note, don't manufactures provide photos for marketing purposes?

p.s. 12k for a watch, good lord


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## Roomka (May 6, 2014)

Correct, i would want all features shown, polished metals/satin finish. constant lighting wouldn't achieve that my guess would be speedlight?

here is an example


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## tompiel (May 6, 2014)

Your cameras Auto white balance setting is great for general subjects,  but strong colours can fool it. It can also be difficult to match the  white balance presets to the conditions youre shooting in. In these  situations, you can use a Preset Manual (Nikon) or Custom white balance  (Canon) setting to get colour spot on.


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## Scatterbrained (May 6, 2014)

runnah said:


> Scatterbrained said:
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> > ......
> ...


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## Roomka (May 6, 2014)

yeah definitely,  here's an example  $225,000.00


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## runnah (May 6, 2014)

Scatterbrained said:


> runnah said:
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> > Scatterbrained said:
> ...


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## runnah (May 6, 2014)

Roomka said:


> yeah definitely,  here's an example View attachment 73168 $225,000.00



frankly you'd have to be an ass of monumental proportion to pay that much for a watch.


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## Roomka (May 6, 2014)

lol not at all, its an investment, today is 225k in 10 years its 500k, people buy properties for that much to make investment, i rather put a watch in a safe for 10 years than to have a house that accumulates damages and repairs in those 10 years. not to mention property tax. but that saying is not for all watche. some will devalue.


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## Scatterbrained (May 6, 2014)

Roomka said:


> Correct, i would want all features shown, polished metals/satin finish. constant lighting wouldn't achieve that my guess would be speedlight?
> 
> here is an example View attachment 73166


No.  It's not what light you use that matters in that aspect, it's how you _modify _the light.   Lightboxes create soft, omnidirectional light that fills in the small scratches from a brushed finish, making it harder to see.  It makes brushed stainless and polished stainless look much closer in texture than they really are. For a photograph, you need to be able to accentuate that difference in texture to really convey that they are different.  You can have soft light that still has enough direction to show texture and fine detail simply by lighting from one side.   Post work in Ps will help to bring out the detail as well.  A simple high pass layer or inverted surface blur layer will help to bring out the texture of brushed surfaces.   Proper positioning of the light and reflectors will also allow you to shoot a watch without getting the glare on the crystal, giving you a crisper watch face.   Of course, you still need to get your exposure and colors right.


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## Scatterbrained (May 6, 2014)

runnah said:


> Roomka said:
> 
> 
> > yeah definitely,  here's an example View attachment 73168 $225,000.00
> ...


It's all relative.  When you make 100k a year, a 225k watch is insane.  When you make 100million a year, a 225k watch is pocket change.  Beyond that, many of these are one off, hand crafted works of mechanical art which appeal to the inner gearhead of the uber rich.


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## Roomka (May 6, 2014)

lol thats true.


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## runnah (May 6, 2014)

Scatterbrained said:


> It's all relative.  When you make 100k a year, a 225k watch is insane.  When you make 100million a year, a 225k watch is pocket change.  Beyond that, many of these are one off, hand crafted works of mechanical art which appeal to the inner gearhead of the uber rich.



I understand the idea of scale, what I don't get is why not buy a Ferrari?

And you know what, the clock inside a ferrari is just as good at telling time.


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## Scatterbrained (May 6, 2014)

runnah said:


> Scatterbrained said:
> 
> 
> > It's all relative.  When you make 100k a year, a 225k watch is insane.  When you make 100million a year, a 225k watch is pocket change.  Beyond that, many of these are one off, hand crafted works of mechanical art which appeal to the inner gearhead of the uber rich.
> ...


The problem here is that you're thinking like someone with a limited budget.   For you it's an either or equation, for them it isn't.   For the clientele that buy goods like that watch, there's no consideration given to alternative purchases;  if they want it they buy it.  Simple as that.   Oftentimes it's not a matter of if they can afford it (because they can) it's a matter of having something exclusive to them.  Something only they can own.  That's why you see these "biggest yacht" competitions amongst the super rich.  It's why they buy sports franchises even if they have no experience with them.   It's why they'll pay a million dollars for an antique car with a unique pedigree.  It's an exclusive showpiece.   Why spend a million dollars on a Buggati?  Because you can, and very few others can.  It has a level of exclusivity that few other cars do.   

It's why people buy the Hasselblad Luna.       I remember being at Amelia Island one year and talking with a guy who was using a then new Hasssy H4D for a point and shoot.   He didn't know anything about photography, but he knew Hassy was "the best" so that's what he got.


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## Roomka (May 6, 2014)

ferrari requires storage/ maintenance. you cant just put a ferrari in a garage and leave it alone. it needs to be driven. and the ferrari's that your going to make investment on they are usually for special ferrari clientele. you cant go and buy them, it has to be offerred to you to buy it, and good luck getting an offer. you gotta be VIP. it also matters on who you are, some people buy 100 million dollar paintings that you'll look at once and get bored. go figure.


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## runnah (May 6, 2014)

Roomka said:


> ferrari requires storage/ maintenance. you cant just put a ferrari in a garage and leave it alone. it needs to be driven. and the ferrari's that your going to make investment on they are usually for special ferrari clientele. you cant go and buy them, it has to be offerred to you to buy it, and good luck getting an offer. you gotta be VIP.



Eat the rich!


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## runnah (May 6, 2014)

vs.


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## Roomka (May 6, 2014)

lol def ferrari


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## Scatterbrained (May 6, 2014)

Or you can have both while laughing at the guy who was forced to choose one over the other.  (not me of course, I can't swing either of them).


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## Roomka (May 6, 2014)

what iso should i be using in a lightbox?, i noticed mine is a 2000 and thats alottt. 


i know my photos have bad exposure, but if i make it more brighter i would get more grainy black dial


here is an example from dark photo to brighter on photoshop.


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## The_Traveler (May 6, 2014)

Next time I'm in NYC, I'd like to come look at all the watches.
(my daughter's appt is about 10 blocks away at 34th and Park)


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## Roomka (May 7, 2014)

sure not a problem lew


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## y75stingray (May 14, 2014)

I shoot watches all day everyday. The best set up as far as I'm  concerned is a three light set up I use strobes, a beauty dish with sock  diffuser, a product table, an arsenal of bounce and fill cards, a  tripod/dslr and almost always the same lens a 100MM L series canon.

Ive  used hot lights and tents before and they're just no good. make a small  investment into some decent equiptment and you wont be sorry. all in  all not including my dslr and lenses I probably only have about $3500  invested into my studio set up.

here is a snapshot of my studio. Its pretty messy right now but you get the idea





With a setup like this you're not limiting yourself to only doing catalog shots. At the same time you can take fantastic catalog shots simply because you have proper separation between your background light, and have very good control over reflections.

Here are some of the shots ive done with this setup and components from this setup.

























I love this simple, yet effective setup and would recommend it to any aspiring product photographer.


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## The_Traveler (May 14, 2014)

speaking as someone who is not so easily impressed, wow.
I'd like to know what you know.


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## Scatterbrained (May 14, 2014)

Stingray, love the shot with all the glassware, very nice.


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## y75stingray (May 14, 2014)

The_Traveler said:


> speaking as someone who is not so easily impressed, wow.
> I'd like to know what you know.



Thanks I appreciate that. What I know is product photography takes patience. The best thing you  can learn for photographing relective surfaces is to successfully bounce light. This is not something you learn overnight when dealing with small detailed objects, but the premise is simple and every portrait photographer knows it very well.  I limit the amount of direct strobe light greatly with white bounce cards and placing my light angled from the subject. Knowing where to place the cards to achieve the light you desire is what its all about.


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## y75stingray (May 14, 2014)

Scatterbrained said:


> Stingray, love the shot with all the glassware, very nice.



Thanks, that was a challenging shot. It took me six hours to complete! It was all shot on my product table with the exact setup from the studio pic above. Its actually a composite of six separate images. In order to keep the watches from constantly falling from their positions I shot them one at a time on the stemware arrangement then stacked the images in post. Kind of like you would overlay cells for an animation. I had alot of fun with that shot!


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## Scatterbrained (May 14, 2014)

y75stingray said:


> Scatterbrained said:
> 
> 
> > Stingray, love the shot with all the glassware, very nice.
> ...



Yeah, I was wondering if you managed all that in camera or comped it.  Either way it's still quite nice.


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## fotonunta (Jul 11, 2014)

You can try to edit it in lightroom, the best solution.


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