# Goodbye for Now



## Lyncca (Nov 11, 2008)

I just wanted to thank the many people that have been SO helpful to me in the past year. After thinking about it for quite some time now, I think I want to go to another healthier, friendlier environment.  

This place has gotten on the verge of just being outright rude and aggressive to many of the newer photographers.  I have not been directly attacked except for once, but I keep witnessing it repeatedly to others.

I will probably come back at some point, but right now, I have a very bad taste in my mouth about it here, so since I use photography as a creative outlet and something I ENJOY, I want to keep it that way.

Good luck to you all.
Lyncca


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## Hertz van Rental (Nov 11, 2008)

You'll find rude and ignorant people wherever you go, I'm afraid. Most of them have a mental age of six.
The best advice I can give is to use the 'ignore' facility. If enough people ignore them then they will go away. The worst thing you can to is to give in to them - but it's your choice.
Good luck and safe surfing.


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## Lyncca (Nov 11, 2008)

Yea, I know that is true enough. I just need a break I think. I have yet to use the ignore button. It seems a little like sticking your head in the ground. Just because you ignore it, doesn't mean it isn't said! LOL


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## benhasajeep (Nov 11, 2008)

So, whats the real story?  :scratch:

I bet its the D300, and it is there and your just comming up with a reason why your not going to be online for a while.   :mrgreen:

Sometimes a small break from something is what a person needs to be able to look at something a different way.  When I get frustrated at something.  I put everything down and go do something else.  Sometimes its 2 minutes, sometimes weeks.  

So go play with that D300 and come back later on and let us know how its working.


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## SrBiscuit (Nov 11, 2008)

i agree with hertz...they are everywhere.

im not promoting rude behavior, however, i must say that i belong to another photo forum, and it's an absolute ass kiss party...no one EVER has anything to say about photos other than "i love it....it;s brilliant.... perfect shot"...

i find that to be totally boring, and an environment that doesnt help progression.

i think that honest crit is extremely important, and helps people either progress, or realize that it aint for them. im not saying it's a good thing to discourage, i just think that sometimes crit can be a bitter pill but it needs to be taken. i find this site to be the perfect balance of friendliness and brutal honesty that needs to be present for me.

i know nothing of why you are leaving other than what you said, so i for one am not happy to see you go, as you seemed to be an active member here during my short TPF tenure.

come on back and join us again soon. be well. :hug::


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## bigalbest (Nov 11, 2008)

Even in rude seeming criticism there is usually some truth, especially in photography. Don't let it stop you from enjoying what you do, but strive for excellence to silence the critics. It seems like only sub-standard images get all the attention on this forum while amazing pictures get ignored or maybe receive a couple comments. It's like everyone just enjoys picking apart the work of others and can never bring themselves to acknowledge that someone else might do something great.


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## Lyncca (Nov 11, 2008)

Thanks for the replies guys  I actually have no problems getting critiqued. That is a big part of why I am here. Well, actually most of it. I have my friends to do the ass-kissing for me, so I come here to learn.

My problem is with the supposed pros that having nothing to say except one of a few things:
- If you take pictures for free then people expect it of everyone - so don't do that!
- If you undercharge, you are bringing down the photography community.
- How dare you raise your prices without such and such equipment, etc.
- Your equipment doesn't make you professional!

- You can't be a hobbyist if you charge anything.
- Don't call your self a pro if you aren't making your whole living at it.
- Don't use "you are a hobbyist" as an excuse (but don't dare call yourself a pro!)

Do you see a pattern here? There is absolutely no friggin' way that a new person according these people can ever get their feet into this very sacred pool.

I bust my ass and don't think I'm doing such a bad job. I can handle photo critiques, but all this soapbox, looking down your nose **** is getting old. It isn't helpful to me or anyone else.

Now, of course, would I go out and shoot a wedding? Hell no. I know I do not have the equipment (although almost) but more importantly, the skills. I will probably be looking to a pro to go assist in the near future, but it certainly won't be someone like some of the people I have witnessed in here.

See, now I bet I get a whole new arguement going in here


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## Lyncca (Nov 11, 2008)

bigalbest said:


> Even in rude seeming criticism there is usually some truth, especially in photography. Don't let it stop you from enjoying what you do, but strive for excellence to silence the critics. It seems like only sub-standard images get all the attention on this forum while amazing pictures get ignored or maybe receive a couple comments. It's like everyone just enjoys picking apart the work of others and can never bring themselves to acknowledge that someone else might do something great.


 
You are right about that too. I have posted pics that I get just a couple of comments, and then others will get 20 that frankly just suck.


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## Hertz van Rental (Nov 11, 2008)

bigalbest said:


> Even in rude seeming criticism there is usually some truth, especially in photography.



The truth is quite often that the person making the criticism doesn't know what they are talking about. There is a tendency to ignore it but it's a fact of life that there are way too many people around who think that merely owning a camera makes them an expert. 

As for negative criticism - I rarely get any (on the odd occasions that I post a pic) but I think that is mainly because they are terrified of me (with good reason) :lmao:


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## kundalini (Nov 11, 2008)

Hertz van Rental said:


> Most of them have a mental age of six.


Hertz was being lenient IMO.... I am more inclined to think age three.



Lyncca said:


> My problem is with the supposed pros that having nothing to say except one of a few things:
> - If you take pictures for free then people expect it of everyone - so don't do that!
> - If you undercharge, you are bringing down the photography community.
> - How dare you raise your prices without such and such equipment, etc.
> ...


Mindless chatter from the three year olds.



I have a couple ways to handle my aggravations. 1)Ignore, 2)Step Away and 3)Lurk without contributing. Actually the last one is like people watching in the mall. They look like such idiots that you can't help yourself but to laugh.


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## lockwood81 (Nov 11, 2008)

Sad news...I'll miss your work.


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## invisible (Nov 11, 2008)

Lyncca, it's been inspiring watching your progress over the last year or so (I think I once told you this), so keep it up. 

I agree with the above comment about rude people being everywhere. However, there are smaller forums out there where you can still receive a good amount of friendly, constructive critique, with the signal-to-noise ratio being excellent. This is especially true about local forums, where idiots rarely hide behind geographical differences to spew the venom that makes them feel significant.

I wish you the best, and might see you again on another board in the near future


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## abraxas (Nov 11, 2008)

Lyncca,

As HvR said, just use the ignore option.  It takes a bit of getting used to, but it keeps things tolerable.

Reaction to photos is usually unpredictable anywhere. If it is predicatable, it isn't any fun.  I post quite a few that just drop like a rock to the bottom.  I don't worry about it, I just figure they don't know a thing about art 

Just keep posting. I'm looking forward to seeing your d300 work & thanks for sharing some of the places that you've been that I may never see in person!


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## JerryPH (Nov 11, 2008)

C'mon Lyncca, stick around just use the ignore list a bit more on the right people... we all still love 'ya!


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## rufus5150 (Nov 11, 2008)

> As HvR said, just use the ignore option.



I'm afraid that if she'd taken his advice, she'd never have seen his advice.


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## Lyncca (Nov 11, 2008)

rufus5150 said:


> I'm afraid that if she'd taken his advice, she'd never have seen his advice.


 
Ok, I just lost it.  I think you are the only one that caught that.

Alright, I will stick around. I didn't want to leave anyway, I was just pretty insulted and thought all of a sudden that everyone thought everything I did was sh*t. But seeing that some of the people I thought were insulting me are encouraging me to stay, maybe I'm not lumped into this group of people that I assumed I was. I'm pretty hard on myself, but I really don't think I suck THAT bad


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## usayit (Nov 11, 2008)

Sometimes it helps to walk away from TPF for a little while then come back....  let things cool off.  Unfortunately, It is easy for people to insult a complete stranger on the internet but don't forget that it is also easy to ignore them.


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## rubbertree (Nov 11, 2008)

I think that is very sad that you will allow someone else to run you off a forum. It's just a forum! people will say what they want. Yes, you can ignore them. And yes, that does not mean that they won't still say it, but who gives a crap?


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## kundalini (Nov 11, 2008)

That's better Lyncca..... breathe in.... breathe out.....





Lyncca said:


> I'm pretty hard on myself, but I really don't think I suck THAT bad


You want evidence of indignation? I got a bit flustered *here*. It's not gotten any better btw, but after I spat the dummy out, I felt better. Maybe this is your turn. :hug::

AND WE WANT TO SEE SHOTS FROM YOUR D300!!!!!!!!


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## Dao (Nov 11, 2008)

Lyncca said:


> Alright, I will stick around.




Great!!     Glad you are staying.  :thumbup:


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## Chiller (Nov 11, 2008)

Lyncca....ya cant leave, cause Chiller will come find you.  

 I have been thinking about something I was going to present in the Feedback section.  Seems a lot of us here are hobby photogs, who sure, make a little $$ on the side but are not serious.  Do I tell somebody who sees a photo of mine to get lost with that $20.00 bill, cause Im not a pro.  Hell no.  If somebody wants a photo of mine, and flashes $$$ in my face, I will sell it.  Even if it was taken at the zoo.   I can bet my neighbors wife that everyone on  here has taken cash for something in their lives.  
Anyways...Chiller had too much cake so he is rambling.   But...what if we approached TPF and asked for a Hobby forum.  Dang...we have a professional place, foundations of photography, and even a film section for those who like sniffing chemicals.   I know there has already been a division of pro vs amateur, but maybe it is time to consider that.    Sure there is just for fun, but a lot of hobby photogs dont take "snapshots".   That way us hobby photogs would be out of the way of all the pros.    What ya think...or should I be sleeping in my coffin right now. :greenpbl:


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## invisible (Nov 11, 2008)

Chiller said:


> Even if it was taken at the zoo.


Don't they realise that photos taken at the zoo lack The Aura? Ignoramuses.

Chiller, you should be Prime Minister.

So Lyncca, that was quite the hiatus


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## Lyncca (Nov 11, 2008)

invisible said:


> Don't they realise that photos taken at the zoo lack The Aura? Ignoramuses.
> 
> Chiller, you should be Prime Minister.
> 
> So Lyncca, that was quite the hiatus


 
Yea, I REALLY suck at holding grudges! It is a big problem of mine.  I didn't expect everyone to be so sweet to me. I just wanted to thank those that had helped me so much before leaving. :heart:


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## kundalini (Nov 11, 2008)

Lyncca said:


> But seeing that some of the people I thought were insulting me are encouraging me to stay, maybe I'm not lumped into this group of people that I assumed I was.


 So, let's make a list......
Hertz
benhasajeep
SrBiscuit
bigalbest
kundalini - Hey, wait a sec.... that's me.... what did I do?
lockwood81
invisible
abraxas
JerryPH
rufus5150


Okay, so who do we torch?  :greendev:   Everyone that piped in afterwards is welcomed to join the fray.


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## abraxas (Nov 11, 2008)

kundalini said:


> So, let's make a list......
> Hertz
> benhasajeep
> SrBiscuit
> ...



There was that many responses?  My screen shows like, three.


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## kundalini (Nov 11, 2008)

abraxas said:


> There was that many responses? My screen shows like, three.


 :lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:


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## rufus5150 (Nov 11, 2008)

> If somebody wants a photo of mine, and flashes $$$ in my face, I will sell it.



No, no, no, Chiller! You're supposed to lecture them on the state of the 'art' and how, you, not being a full time photographer couldn't possibly sell your work, lest you and your foul ilk degrade the entire industry. If they insist, take the SLR and use it for what hobbyists should be using it for... not taking pictures, but beating these foul creatures about the head who actually want to buy something they like for a price they can bear. As they're sitting there, bleeding profusely with lens prints in their forehead, make sure you drop a few cards on them for when they wake up with the phone numbers of studio _professionals_ who can do semi-nude, Dave Hill style wedding photos of zoo animals.

(And thusly, with few words, Rufus ensures his photos shall never be critiqued...)


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## Lyncca (Nov 11, 2008)

abraxas said:


> There was that many responses? My screen shows like, three.


 
My boss just came to see what the hell I was laughing about so hysterically. 

I'm leaving work now, but I will reply to the rest of you and PMs a bit later.  Yall have totally changed my mood.  Thank you :hugs:


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## JerryPH (Nov 11, 2008)

kundalini said:


> So, let's make a list......
> Hertz
> benhasajeep
> SrBiscuit
> ...



I was **SO** going to start slinging it for being left out... you dodged a bullet there.


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## kundalini (Nov 11, 2008)

^^  I did my research, sir.


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## Peanuts (Nov 11, 2008)

Can I just say one thing?  Please don't mind me, because I just spent all of yesterday curled up in the fetal position on my bed due to the flu and today am madly editing to get caught up so I am not in the kindest of moods but I must say I have never quite understood why people must announce how disgusted they are with a forum.  This is not directed specifically at you Lyncca and I must say I have greatly enjoyed watching your phoography progress this pass year.  
But sometimes I think everyone needs to be more open minded, if you receive critique you don't like just mentally block it or even better, learn from it.  Even if all you glean from it is how to not approach a subject, that is good enough.  I have been on here for... I don't know... 3 or 4 years (?) and I have seen a good number of people go through who I have not always errr.. respected, but I have not once hit the ignore button.  I have survived. 
Also, from who I think you feel must offended by Lyncca, there was a lot of truth within that post - that individual from what I have heard has been running one of the most successful child photography businesses in North America.  Just something to dwell on.


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## eravedesigns (Nov 11, 2008)

People are assholes get over it plus its just the internet so why care to begin with.


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## skieur (Nov 11, 2008)

Hertz van Rental said:


> The truth is quite often that the person making the criticism doesn't know what they are talking about. There is a tendency to ignore it but it's a fact of life that there are way too many people around who think that merely owning a camera makes them an expert.
> 
> As for negative criticism - I rarely get any (on the odd occasions that I post a pic) but I think that is mainly because they are terrified of me (with good reason) :lmao:


 
Not true at all, Hertz.  If the person making the critique is making all kinds of personal and emotional statements like: "I don't like it" or "That sucks" etc. then you may be right.  However if the person is using the criteria related to technique and composition, then you are wrong.  You can characterize anyone as thinking they are an expert, but they could have more experience than you, just different experience.  Someone with an ego should not be surprised to run into someone else with an ego and someone with experience whould not be surprised to run into someone with equal experience.

I am certainly NOT terrified of you, but then I have more varied experience than you and probably an equal amount.

skieur


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## kundalini (Nov 11, 2008)

*and so it begins.....*


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## Chiller (Nov 11, 2008)

invisible said:


> Don't they realise that photos taken at the zoo lack The Aura? Ignoramuses.
> 
> *Chiller, you should be Prime Minister*.
> 
> So Lyncca, that was quite the hiatus


 







...no way...un uh.... That is way too much responsibilities.   Im already a Retard, but being called the Prime Minister is just low. :lmao:



rufus5150 said:


> No, no, no, Chiller! You're supposed to lecture them on the state of the 'art' and how, you, not being a full time photographer couldn't possibly sell your work, lest you and your foul ilk degrade the entire industry. If they insist, take the SLR and use it for what hobbyists should be using it for... not taking pictures, but beating these foul creatures about the head who actually want to buy something they like for a price they can bear. As they're sitting there, bleeding profusely with lens prints in their forehead, make sure you drop a few cards on them for when they wake up with the phone numbers of studio _professionals_ who can do semi-nude, Dave Hill style wedding photos of zoo animals.
> 
> (And thusly, with few words, Rufus ensures his photos shall never be critiqued...)


 

That was last weeks lecture.  You can see it on Youtube, right under the Barak O'bummers acceptance speech or sompin. (sorry , bad grammar, had a long day at my full time job):lmao::lmao:   oh...I just sold a photo to a person in the US off my web site....oops.  Hope y'all dont mind. :lmao::lmao:

back to my crypt...it sure is cold up here.


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## Peanuts (Nov 11, 2008)

Take me back to the kittens!  Wait a minute


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## skieur (Nov 11, 2008)

I find in general terms, not related to any particular individual, that a lot of newbies are very very thin skinned when it comes to critique.

Heavens, I outgrew that silliness, when I was 17 years old.  At that time I joined a camera club with my mother and the critique was much harsher than anything seen here or anywhere on the internet and it was very thorough, very straightforward, with no attempt whatsoever to be diplomatic.  Good photography was good photography and weak, poor photos were weak, poor photos.  It was credible and I certainly did not go crying to mommy for support when my work was criticised.  I was forced to learn quickly in order to improve and I did so.

Critique in the club mixed the work of professionals with amateurs such as myself at the time and all work was treated equally.  I learned one heck of a lot in a very short time and it was valuable.  I was treated as an adult who could handle critique and I acted like one.

skieur


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## skieur (Nov 11, 2008)

kundalini said:


> *and so it begins.....*


 
Great shot! Is it yours? :thumbup:

skieur


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## keith204 (Nov 11, 2008)

Hmm, I took a break for awhile to go get more criticism.


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## skieur (Nov 11, 2008)

Peanuts said:


> Take me back to the kittens! Wait a minute


 
No, dogs are nicer and particularly big dogs. 

skeur


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## abraxas (Nov 11, 2008)

kundalini said:


> *and so it begins.....*



Don't you just find it fascinating that it's not about showing a little support for someone with a bit of a rant, and has become about others imposing  their values through nagging, and then a potential pissing contest?


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## invisible (Nov 11, 2008)

eravedesigns said:


> People are assholes get over it plus its just the internet so why care to begin with.


Some people are so stupid that they'd rather not be around internet assholes. Go figure.


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## rufus5150 (Nov 11, 2008)

> newbies are very very thin skinned when it comes to critique



My observations lately indicate it's not the newbies who are thin skinned about _their own _critique but thin skinned when they see critique of someone else's work which may not involve entirely blowing sunshine off the poster's arse.

Very rarely do I see the original poster not appreciate honest critique, however harsh (it happens). What I see more often is that someone posts a negative critique and the "E-For-Effort/Everyone Farts Rainbows" crowd jumps on the person giving the critique.


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## abraxas (Nov 11, 2008)

rufus5150 said:


> My observations lately indicate it's not the newbies who are thin skinned about _their own _critique but thin skinned when they see critique of someone else's work which may not involve entirely blowing sunshine off the poster's arse.
> 
> Very rarely do I see the original poster not appreciate honest critique, however harsh (it happens). What I see more often is that someone posts a negative critique and the "E-For-Effort/Everyone Farts Rainbows" crowd jumps on the person giving the critique.



I know a professional photographer that retired a few years ago that told me if I wanted to progress as a photographer, I should forget about the internet forums and develop my work on my own according to what I felt is right.  Other than the social and entertainment aspects, the dude was right.  The web is frought with wierdness and people with issues.  

I've felt better about my work doing so, and am not only loathe to give critique, but reserve the right to criticise my critics. They ought not be so thin-skinned.  I learn more admiring the work of my 'heroes' and doing my own research, reading and judging my own experiments.  Certainly I like encouragement, and I can tell the purely social comments, but I like having friends, however virtual some of them might be. The web is entertainment.  I do learn from it though, but not like some people seem to demand.  One of the most valuable things I've learned on the web regarding photography is the following, "My camera, my vision, my rules."  (and 'thank you' you know who you are).


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## kundalini (Nov 11, 2008)

abraxas said:


> "My camera, my vision, my rules." (and 'thank you' you know who you are).


 Yeah, I like that one too.


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## christopher walrath (Nov 11, 2008)

Don't take it too hard, Lyncca.  Happens to me all the time.  Just ask Helen.


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## Alleh Lindquist (Nov 11, 2008)

Honestly I suggest you leave. I started posting on a few forums about a month ago to increase my web links and drive up my search engine rankings. Other than that I have seen absolutely no reason to waste time on any of the forums I have been reading. Your time would be much better spent reading the good books about photography, behind the camera and working in Photoshop. You don't want photographic advice from armatures you want it from your photographic mentors whether they are people you can meet with or just view their images. Just looking at beautiful photographs and studying them will help your own understanding of creating images.

Forums are more or less just a sad way to be social.

Edit - Sorry there I go again trying to start a conflict. Actually I just mean to say you will learn more from other sources in less time that what you can learn on a forum.


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## abraxas (Nov 11, 2008)

Alleh Lindquist said:


> Honestly I suggest you leave. I started posting on a few forums about a month ago to increase my web links and drive up my search engine rankings. Other than that I have seen absolutely no reason to waste time on any of the forums I have been reading. Your time would be much better spent reading the good books about photography, behind the camera in working in Photoshop. You don't want photographic advice from armatures you want it from your photographic mentors whether they are people you can meet with or just view their images. Just looking at beautiful photographs and studying them will help your own understanding of creating images.
> 
> Forums are more or less just a sad way to be social.



All those words and you've said nothing of value.  Tell us, please, how have your stubby little thoughts helped you with SEO? Something tells me you're far more mouth than brains.


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## kundalini (Nov 11, 2008)

Alleh Lindquist said:


> Honestly I suggest you leave. I started posting on a few forums about a month ago to increase my web links and drive up my search engine rankings. Other than that I have seen absolutely no reason to waste time on any of the forums I have been reading. Your time would be much better spent reading the good books about photography, behind the camera and working in Photoshop. You don't want photographic advice from armatures you want it from your photographic mentors whether they are people you can meet with or just view their images. Just looking at beautiful photographs and studying them will help your own understanding of creating images.
> 
> Forums are more or less just a sad way to be social.


Bushwa talk, but yet, you continue to post.  Perhaps you should heed your own advice.


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## Hawaii Five-O (Nov 11, 2008)

In theory though, if someone hates my work, is that still a compliment? As it strikes strong opinions or emotions?  Isn't it controversy based on love or hate  that makes art popular?  Even if people hate my work they will still end up to viewing it the same way the people who loved it did.


If a member chooses to quit a forum, they are better off just leaving without telling anyone publicly I think. Because if you come back people will remember  you as that person who  made a public profession of quitting and will drag this fact from the abyss when you make a post or have a conflict. Which ends up with you being  internet flustrated again.


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## rufus5150 (Nov 11, 2008)

abraxas said:


> I know a professional photographer that retired a few years ago that told me if I wanted to progress as a photographer, I should forget about the internet forums and develop my work on my own according to what I felt is right.  Other than the social and entertainment aspects, the dude was right.  The web is frought with wierdness and people with issues.
> 
> I've felt better about my work doing so, and am not only loathe to give critique, but reserve the right to criticise my critics. They ought not be so thin-skinned.  I learn more admiring the work of my 'heroes' and doing my own research, reading and judging my own experiments.  Certainly I like encouragement, and I can tell the purely social comments, but I like having friends, however virtual some of them might be. The web is entertainment.  I do learn from it though, but not like some people seem to demand.  One of the most valuable things I've learned on the web regarding photography is the following, "My camera, my vision, my rules."  (and 'thank you' you know who you are).



I'm not sure why you quoted my post to post this reply, but I'll run with it...  I only meant to say that the trend I noticed recently wasn't people asking for critique suffering from thin skin-ed-ness, but the (for lack of a better term) cheerleaders who think you should never say anything bad about a piece of work. It drives me nuts. 

I think there is some value to posting here and getting feedback of the critical-but-non-encouraging variety. My very first post here, a few people gave me some real big things to think about and things that were detracting from the images I was presenting. That lead me to a few books, acquiring and learning photoshop (again, I missed it so), and what things to read up on. I wished everything I'd post would garner that quality of feedback, but alas...

I see other photographer's works and admire and study them, I read on topics both technical and artistic, work with photoshop way more than I probably should, but I also find value in posting here and hearing other people's thoughts. I am sometimes blinded by what my intention was with images that it may not ultimately be what I'm communicating with them. The internet, this forum, for all its quirky folks and strangeness, provides something that I benefit from.



			
				Alleh Lindquist said:
			
		

> Honestly I suggest you leave. I started posting on a few forums about a month ago to increase my web links and drive up my search engine rankings. Other than that I have seen absolutely no reason to waste time on any of the forums I have been reading. Your time would be much better spent reading the good books about photography, behind the camera and working in Photoshop. You don't want photographic advice from armatures you want it from your photographic mentors whether they are people you can meet with or just view their images. Just looking at beautiful photographs and studying them will help your own understanding of creating images.
> 
> Forums are more or less just a sad way to be social.



I LOL'd. Thank you! The indignant are so cute when they're young...


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## DRoberts (Nov 11, 2008)

Lyncca said:


> Thanks for the replies guys  I actually have no problems getting critiqued. That is a big part of why I am here. Well, actually most of it. I have my friends to do the ass-kissing for me, so I come here to learn.
> 
> My problem is with the supposed pros that having nothing to say except one of a few things:
> - If you take pictures for free then people expect it of everyone - so don't do that!
> ...


 
I remember that conversation and several others that were along the same lines. I completely agree that some people are very rude and unproductive on here, but I just decided to ignore them and help when I can and take the advice and inspiration of the "good" people on here. When you come back, do so with the attitude that you are here for you. Don't pay any attention to the idiots and take advantage of the positive that can make you a better photographer and person. 
Hurry Back.


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## Lyncca (Nov 11, 2008)

Lyncca said:


> See, now I bet I get a whole new arguement going in here



Wow. I was pretty right about that! Well, I will respond individually tomorrow (and it will be LONG), but let me say this. I can tell the difference between those that have read each and every post and those that read 2 or 3 and chimed in at the end, because if you actually read me throughout you wouldn't have said what you did.

I guess I'm not one that says sh*t without reading every bit of a post in a discussion post before replying. Hmmm. 

The funny thing is that when I reply to everyone, I doubt most that I need to respond to will actually read it before replying. 

I thank those (and funny that they were some of those I was ranting about a little bit) that got what I was saying....


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## Hertz van Rental (Nov 11, 2008)

skieur said:


> I have more varied experience than you ...



I think I might surprise you there 

We could turn this thread in to yet _another_ discussion/argument on what makes for a good crit - but why bother?
The important thing is that the lady has learned to laugh again.
O/T is always a good place to go for a break... :mrgreen:


*Whoopsie!*
Just read a post there and I think someone has mis-understood me.
This happens a lot on here.
I have never sought to put people down (with one or two very special exceptions).
My main argument has always been that the term 'pro' has become debased because people use it inappropriately.
My opinions on this subject have been posted elsewhere so I won't repeat.
My view on Photography as a hobby remains the same.
What has been mis-understood here is the point I was making.
If you want to make money out of Photography or work your way up to being a professional then stop playing at it and make some commitment. I don't think that is a put-down.
If you want others to take your work seriously then you have to take yourself seriously.
You then move into that big area called 'semi-professional'.
Making the move to seeing yourself as 'semi-pro' changes your mindset and will do wonders for confidence. But it also involves accepting a degree of responsibility and making a bit of serious commitment.
If you are not prepared to do either then I don't think you should take the money and just stick at doing it for fun.


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## abraxas (Nov 11, 2008)

rufus5150 said:


> I'm not sure why you quoted my post to post this reply, but I'll run with it...  I only meant to say that the trend I noticed recently wasn't people asking for critique suffering from thin skin-ed-ness, but the (for lack of a better term) cheerleaders who think you should never say anything bad about a piece of work. It drives me nuts. ...



I thought you had a good theme to run with.

'Cheerleader' sounds demeaning though.  I would just rather say something positive or not at all.  I've learned that sometimes if I make a criticism, the jackals and hyenas will jump in and amplify until it becomes hurtful- then it's just a shame I said anything at all.   Again, I believe internet forums are pretty much for socializing and entertainment. My photography serves my purposes adequately, and I could not care less about internet critique, but I still like to share with my photo peer group. I realize that some don't see forums in the same aspect as I, and I try to respect that.


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## rufus5150 (Nov 11, 2008)

> 'Cheerleader' sounds demeaning though.



And I think that's warranted sometimes. There are a lot of encouragement _only_ posts in replies for critique, and when the image suffers from few objectively good qualities, these don't server the person who posted them at all. 

I'm a big fan of providing critical feedback while praising an images good qualities, but the 'I'll say nice shot regardless' crowd bugs me sometimes, and it's the same pack that jumps on those trying to give some iota of critical feedback.


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## craig (Nov 11, 2008)

Bye! I like your work and your posts, but I have to say this final plea is always lame. Why not just leave and not tell anyone?

If you have not logged off please keep in mind: 

Photography is forever a personal journey. You must be proud of the work that you are currently doing. This will enable you to take criticism with a grain of salt. 

There will always be people that take said journey very seriously (that includes me). Personal attacks are rarely personal. More like a rebuttal to a statement. More often then not photographers do not have the ability to be subtle or charming.

TPF is currently a large community of photo enthusiasts. Some newbies. Some film huggers. Some professors. Some Guy With a Camera. Some "Pros". Point is this is the strength of The Photo Forum. Ideas and comments; good and bad flow like water. Take the time to weigh the good and the bad. On closer examination you will find credibility in even the most offensive of comments.

Personally. I have found solace in this dysfunctional group of members for years. Why is beyond me. None the less I can say this site is tops for a reason. It is because of it's members. We would like you to stick around, but hey; we all have a journey.

Love & Bass


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## Alleh Lindquist (Nov 11, 2008)

Sorry there I go again trying to start a conflict. Actually I just mean to say you will learn more from other sources in less time that what you can learn on a forum.


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## Peanuts (Nov 12, 2008)

craig said:


> I have found solace in this dysfunctional group of members for years.



What can I say... we put the 'fun' in dysfunctional


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## Iron Flatline (Nov 12, 2008)

Long thread, haven't read most of the responses, but here's my two cents:

 - compared to every other photo community on the internet, this is the friendliest one.

 - I have been a member of many communities in the last ten years, and I'm peeved by "good-bye" threads... Why not just fade away?


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## Battou (Nov 12, 2008)

Iron Flatline said:


> Long thread, haven't read most of the responses, but here's my two cents:
> 
> - compared to every other photo community on the internet, this is the friendliest one.
> 
> - I have been a member of many communities in the last ten years, and I'm peeved by "good-bye" threads... Why not just fade away?



In the end the OP decided to stay, now the thread is yet another punching bag.....


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## Arch (Nov 12, 2008)

Lyncca said:


> Alright, I will stick around.



Good!... honestly, you will always get people that think they know what they are talking about just because they sell photos or have had a few minor sucesses in thier photography career. To me, a noob with no experience or equipment can impress me, sometimes more than a pro with an all singing all dancing set up.... people can be idiots, just part of the joys of world wide internet forums!.... as others say, this is still one of the friendliest. 




Alleh Lindquist said:


> Honestly I suggest you leave. I started posting on a few forums about a month ago to increase my web links and drive up my search engine rankings. Other than that I have seen absolutely no reason to waste time on any of the forums I have been reading.


 
Seriously this is a bad attidue and leaves me very unimpressed.
For a start you are wrong, to new photographers an internet forum can be a great source of info... i know many people who have learned alot and quickly from this very forum.
Second, admitting your only here for the web links puts you in the spammer/advertiser area... seeing as tho i ban anyone who is here mearly for advertising maybe you are suggesting i ban you?

... also, as you can see by all the people wanting Lyncca to stay, we have a good community here, if you dont want to be part of an internet community, dont post here.

:roll:


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## Helen B (Nov 12, 2008)

I agree that this is one of the friendliest forums on the web and that is why I continue to post here, with the aim of helping other photographers in the same way that I have been helped in the past.



christopher walrath said:


> Don't take it too hard, Lyncca.  Happens to me all the time.  Just ask Helen.



Why drag me into this? What is your problem? If you have a genuine problem then deal with it, don't go round telling tales.

Best,
Helen


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## Synnove (Nov 12, 2008)

I am quite shocked that this forum can be viewed as negative.  I was on another where there were no limits on what was said and it typically reduced to name calling and personal insults.  I came here to get away from that drama and learn something.  I am intimidated by the work posted here but hope to gain valuable tips that will make me better.

Good luck.


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## Johnboy2978 (Nov 12, 2008)

Lyncca said:


> ...  Alright, I will stick around. I didn't want to leave anyway ....



It didn't take much to change your mind.  I have to agree with others here who think these Swan Songs are rather lame.  When I read your first post, I thought, that's rather sad, but I wonder how many times she'll reply to this.  I don't have a problem with you or your work but I do get turned off with posts like this.  I think this is a symptom of a larger problem of the forum.  People come here for ego strokes and then get offended when they don't come.   One of the more interesting replies I've received lately to one of my images was "What a great picture...I can't think of a single bad thing to say about it".  When you ask for critique, don't be surprised when you get it, b/c many look for what's wrong, instead of tripping over themselves to tell you how great it is.  The whole Pro, Am, hobbyist thing is just ridiculous here.  Does it really matter if you post an image for a critique if you were paid for it or not.  There's much more that could be said, but it will just keep this thread growing and garnering more attention.


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## Lyncca (Nov 12, 2008)

OK FOR THE LAST TIME.... THIS WAS NEVER ABOUT GETTING CRITIQUED OR EGO STROKING!

There. Ok, other than that, I think the point of this thread was lost long ago.



> I have to agree with others here who think these Swan Songs are rather lame.


 
Well, the part I love is that while you think I am lame and think I should just go away, you bother to take the time to write something nasty about it, instead of just clicking that little "BACK" button. 

I would rather be lame than an asshole that needs to make such comments to others.

Everyone else, I will PM individually, because I see no reason to continue this publicly.


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## Arch (Nov 12, 2008)

ok ok... as mentioned before this is what the ignore button is for!
This thread has run its course now i think.


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