# Michelle



## DanOstergren (Mar 3, 2015)

A portrait I took last week of my friend's neighbor in their living room. 

Captured in natural light mixed with a little bit of indoor tungsten lighting. You may not edit any of my photos. 

EOS 5D MKI
135MM @ F/2
1/100th sec
ISO 800


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## runnah (Mar 3, 2015)

I love this image!

Very emotional. I get a very depressed/sad vibe. Probably the blues.


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## kathyt (Mar 3, 2015)

Stunning.


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## MRnats (Mar 4, 2015)

Great work. I hope you have future shoots planned with her.


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## ronlane (Mar 4, 2015)

Nicely done.


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## DanOstergren (Mar 4, 2015)

MRnats said:


> Great work. I hope you have future shoots planned with her.


We're already planning the next shoot.


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## DanOstergren (Mar 4, 2015)

runnah said:


> I love this image!
> 
> Very emotional. I get a very depressed/sad vibe. Probably the blues.





kathyt said:


> Stunning.





ronlane said:


> Nicely done.


Thank you.


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## DarkShadow (Mar 4, 2015)

Very Nice Dan.Love the side profile,the reflection off the glass is a nice touch.Very emotional feel to it. She is a very pretty young lady.Nothing about this shot looks staged and just looks so natural.


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## Forkie (Mar 4, 2015)




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## Designer (Mar 4, 2015)

The reflection is distracting.


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## elizpage (Mar 4, 2015)

Ah, very nice! I love the reflection, I just took a look at some of your other work. Really marvelous stuff


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## runnah (Mar 4, 2015)

Nominated!


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## waday (Mar 4, 2015)

I love this. 

Your work is always an inspiration.


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## DanOstergren (Mar 4, 2015)

Designer said:


> The reflection is distracting.


Good, I'm glad I could distract you for a moment.


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## JerryVenz (Mar 4, 2015)

Nice job on seeing and using the light!

  Since this type of portraiture is one of my specialties I offer these refinements:

She has an eyelash coming out of her nose--a no-no in portraiture!
We want either full profile or bring her nose back towards the camera to reveal her far eye.  I got killed for this in professional, international, print competition many years ago!

The background is overly complicated--too many right-angles and hard edges
that don't mix with photography of a woman.
To avoid this I usually shoot down-camera parallel to-the window. I don't like my light source to be in the portrait.  Same reason we don't show the soft-box when we do portraits in the studio.

Kudos, though, for using SHORT LIGHTING--my favorite! Hardly any photographers these days ( professional or otherwise ) use dramatic, directional, lighting!

Jerry W. Venz  M.Photog.,Cr. CPP


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## DanOstergren (Mar 5, 2015)

JerryVenz said:


> Nice job on seeing and using the light!
> 
> Since this type of portraiture is one of my specialties I offer these refinements:
> 
> ...


Thanks for the feedback. I agree with your point about the eyelashes coming out of the nose.


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## W.Y.Photo (Mar 5, 2015)

Designer said:


> The reflection is distracting.



While it is distracting, to me it is also a useful piece of the image. Its really hard to say if it would be better without the reflection or not. Sure it may be more clean without it, but it would also be far more generic and uninteresting. The only thing I can think of to make the reflection better is by positioning her or the camera differently in order to make the reflection more subdued or more prominent, but both of those solutions to the reflection problem would change the rest of the image drastically, something that I think would deflate the moody feel that the current image has... It's a really tough call.



JerryVenz said:


> Nice job on seeing and using the light!
> 
> The background is overly complicated--too many right-angles and hard edges
> that don't mix with photography of a woman.
> To avoid this I usually shoot down-camera parallel to-the window.



While in many cases this would be a problematic element I think that the background not only gives a good sense of place in this image but that the lines and angles guide the eyes through the image. I don't find it overly complicated or even slightly distracting because it is balanced and well placed.

While hard edges and angles don't mix with beauty shots for females they can be used to create a certain feeling and I think that this image is a good example of that. I wouldn't generalize a compositional element like that as purely masculine or feminine. While they do carry aesthetic traits that relate more easily to different gender's that doesn't mean they should be discounted entirely when dealing with models in either gender. They still work in certain situations.


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## DanOstergren (Mar 9, 2015)

W.Y.Photo said:


> Designer said:
> 
> 
> > The reflection is distracting.
> ...


Thanks man. I'm glad you like it. I tend to try and stay away from the limitations given by print competitions. I think their formula leaves little room for creativity.


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## W.Y.Photo (Mar 10, 2015)

DanOstergren said:


> W.Y.Photo said:
> 
> 
> > Designer said:
> ...



Agreed, while those guidelines are great for certain types of portraiture; especially non-stylized, commercial, environmental portraits, they are very limiting in scope and tend to make artists pump out the same types of images over and over again. Following a formula is great if what your looking to do is sell images to clients who all want the same thing but true creativity lies in knowledge of the rules to an extent that you know when the rules should be broken to make the image even more appealing.


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## Designer (Mar 10, 2015)

Since I was quoted again, I think it may be acceptable that I write again.  Several posters have declared me to be in error regarding my rather simple observation that the reflection is distracting.  The reflection is drawing my eye away from the model's primary image to the point of spoiling the overall portrait.

What I see on this forum all too often is that some photographers really don't know the rules well enough to know when and how to "break" them.  I believe this portrait is yet another example of that.

If the subject in the photograph is intended to be the focus (no pun) of our attention, then knowledge of compositional tenets and knowledge of the relative play of lightness against darkness is in order.  

Sure, make the composition your own, by all means, but you ought to at least know what you're doing.  

The window frame and other elements of the background not withstanding, the more distracting element is the reflection.  If the photographer had seen that, and had undergone some effort at mitigating the distraction, this could have been a much, much better portrait.

The reflection need not be completely eliminated, but if it were toned down some it would probably not be the distracting element that it is.


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## W.Y.Photo (Mar 10, 2015)

Designer said:


> The reflection need not be completely eliminated, but if it were toned down some it would probably not be the distracting element that it is.



That's a really good idea. Toning down the entire window to keep the eye from straying to the reflection too much would solve that issue immediately.


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## DanOstergren (Mar 10, 2015)

Designer said:


> Since I was quoted again, I think it may be acceptable that I write again.  Several posters have declared me to be in error regarding my rather simple observation that the reflection is distracting.  The reflection is drawing my eye away from the model's primary image to the point of spoiling the overall portrait.
> 
> What I see on this forum all too often is that some photographers really don't know the rules well enough to know when and how to "break" them.  I believe this portrait is yet another example of that.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the feedback about darkening the reflection; that's a valid thought.

The reflection is actually my favorite element to the shot. And I do in fact know what I'm doing despite you saying that I don't. To each his own though; you're entitled to your opinion if you want to say I don't know what I'm doing, just as I am entitled to say that you are wrong. 

Now watch the rabid guard dogs of TPF freak the **** out for me defending myself...


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## e.rose (Mar 10, 2015)

I frickin' love your processing.

The image is great in general, but I always love your processing. It adds so much.

Also... are you having people edit your photos all the time that you need to state the disclaimer? 

C'mon people. His tag says "NOT OK to edit". He shouldn't need to have to state it in the post.


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## e.rose (Mar 11, 2015)

It's TOTALLY okay if you say no, but... I... I kinda wanna see what the pre-processed image looks like. Are you willing to share that either here or a DM?


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## TreeofLifeStairs (Mar 11, 2015)

e.rose said:


> It's TOTALLY okay if you say no, but... I... I kinda wanna see what the pre-processed image looks like. Are you willing to share that either here or a DM?


Don't do it. She's going to try and edit your image. 

Just kidding. I was curious about this too.


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## DanOstergren (Mar 11, 2015)

e.rose said:


> It's TOTALLY okay if you say no, but... I... I kinda wanna see what the pre-processed image looks like. Are you willing to share that either here or a DM?


I'll send you a message. Honestly I don't want to hear the inevitable "I like the before better" response that would follow me posting it here.


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## e.rose (Mar 11, 2015)

DanOstergren said:


> e.rose said:
> 
> 
> > It's TOTALLY okay if you say no, but... I... I kinda wanna see what the pre-processed image looks like. Are you willing to share that either here or a DM?
> ...



TOTALLY understandable, hahaha.


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## rexbobcat (Mar 13, 2015)

I don't mind the reflection. This is styled to be a slice-of-life type shot. It would be weird if the reflection wasn't there.


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## jenko (Mar 18, 2015)

Very nice work, Dan, as usual. Not sure what all the fuss is about the reflection  ... that is actually the most interesting visual element besides the subject!


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## DanOstergren (Mar 19, 2015)

jenko said:


> Very nice work, Dan, as usual. Not sure what all the fuss is about the reflection  ... that is actually the most interesting visual element besides the subject!


Thanks!

I don't get the fuss either; I just think some people like to look for any reason they can to tell others that they don't know what they're doing.


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## Braineack (Mar 19, 2015)

I like the reflection 

using tapatalk.


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## DanOstergren (Mar 19, 2015)

Braineack said:


> I like the reflection
> 
> using tapatalk.


Well I guess that means neither of us know what we're doing with a camera...


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## runnah (Mar 19, 2015)

People be crazy...


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## Braineack (Mar 19, 2015)

DanOstergren said:


> Braineack said:
> 
> 
> > I like the reflection
> ...


Oh I certianlly dont.

using tapatalk.


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## FITBMX (Mar 19, 2015)

I love it in every way!


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## JustJazzie (Mar 19, 2015)

Wow! What an emotional image. I love every bit of it, including the processing and reflection. Fantastic work as usual.


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## DanOstergren (Mar 23, 2015)

FITBMX said:


> I love it in every way!


Thank you.


JustJazzie said:


> Wow! What an emotional image. I love every bit of it, including the processing and reflection. Fantastic work as usual.


Thank you!


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## DanOstergren (Mar 23, 2015)

This image was actually awarded a Daily Deviation on deviantart not too long ago.
Flow by DanOstergren on DeviantArt


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## DanOstergren (Mar 23, 2015)

Also, one other shot from this series:


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## BrickHouse (Mar 23, 2015)

Outstanding as always Dan. Thanks for sharing!


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## DanOstergren (Mar 23, 2015)

BrickHouse said:


> Outstanding as always Dan. Thanks for sharing!


Thank you.


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## FITBMX (Mar 23, 2015)

this is also a really great photo, are you going to get a print for her?


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## DanOstergren (Mar 24, 2015)

FITBMX said:


> this is also a really great photo, are you going to get a print for her?


If she buys one. I'm no sugar daddy.


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## FITBMX (Mar 24, 2015)

DanOstergren said:


> FITBMX said:
> 
> 
> > this is also a really great photo, are you going to get a print for her?
> ...



I've never really had photo worth selling, so I'm not used to selling stuff! LOL


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