# Did I do something illegal or immoral?



## gparsons26 (Apr 28, 2009)

My newphew recently stayed with us for 4 days while his parents were out of state.  I live in Indiana.   I decided to get my nephew and my children's pictures made together as a gift for my mother-in-law.  I also had pictures made of my newphew for my sister-in-law.  I spent a lot of money on these pictures and had them personalized with Mother's Day poems.  My newphew was especially excited to surprise his mother with these portraits for Mother's Day.  When my sister-in-law found out, she threw a fit and said that I should have gotten her permission to have the photos taken of her son.  (Which of course would have ruined the surprise).  She said that even schools have to have release forms filled out before they can take a picture of her child.  I thought they only had release forms for the publication of the pictures.  Aside from being hurt that my good intentions have been turned upside down, now I'm worried that I may be in some legal trouble.  I told the photographer that he was my newphew and the reason for the pictures.  He never asked if I had permission.  Have I done something illegal?


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## bhop (Apr 28, 2009)

No.  Your sis-in-law is just nuts... no offense.. 

Release forms aren't necessary for non-published/personal photos.


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## gparsons26 (Apr 28, 2009)

I agree, none taken!


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## fast1 (Apr 28, 2009)

hmm besides its not a stranger its your sis-in-law for crying out loud.


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## McQueen278 (Apr 28, 2009)

I hate how everyone thinks that there should be a permission slip for EVERYTHING now-a-days.  I did a photo shoot for a band who played as a special guest at a school orchestra concert and I was told I couldn't have any of the students in any picture because they didn't have permission slips.  I knew there was nothing wrong with taking a group shot of the kids with the band and giving it away to the kids, but it wasn't worth fighting about.  Oh and on top of that, the orchestra director gave a photo of the band from my website to the local newspaper without permission and they published it without crediting me.  I told her that she was lucky I didn't have time to sue her for violating a copyright.  The whole affair pissed me off.  When I was in school we had an astronaut visit and give a speech.  NASA sent a photographer and people would have laughed if someone suggested that the photographer needed permission from all the parents to have a group picture.  I miss the less ridiculous times when people thought for themselves and could determine when something was appropriate without a permission slip.


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## FrankLamont (Apr 28, 2009)

No. No, you aren't, really...

Look, I feel for you. I know what it's like to go through it all and have someone say that to you - that hurts.

So not to have 'revenge' or something like that, but just to make her appreciate: when talking to her next time, or in front of her, just let it 'slip'. Or leave the receipt from the photographer lying around.

If worse comes to worse, I'd tell her straight up that the photos and prints cost you $x and you meant it out of good will. If she still doesn't... then just ignore her for time being.


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## sly677 (Apr 28, 2009)

I don't see how it would be illegal.  I will assume that these are nice clean portraits and not random photos that portrays the child in any indescent manners.  So I doubt that it's illegal. Immoral?  NO way!!  What's wrong with family doing something nice for other family members?

I think it's was a really great idea and something that every mother would (no offence: in there right mind) be very happy to get.  

Could it be that she's upset because you paid for it and she feels like it was too much money for you to spend on this?  It's a shame that she's ruining the mother's day gift from her son.  Sound like she's arguing just for the sake of arguing...it's a photograph, and it's a present, she should get over it and be happy.

Now a days people freak out over the smallest thing even if it's a nice gesture it's crazy.  I would'nt worry about it, but I would also be pretty pissed off at her reaction because it's childish and unnecessary.  That's my opinion.

Syl


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## Naturegirl (Apr 28, 2009)

Um, you watched her child for 4 days & she's throwing a fit about this?


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## SrBiscuit (Apr 28, 2009)

your sister in law is a loon.


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## woojiebear (Apr 28, 2009)

It's not illegal 
If i'm out in public and taking pictures of kids I would ask permission first.
But..seeing as how they stayed with you and are related and i'm assuming, the pictures are..normal...
She sounds extremely paranoid and it's too bad that your gift was received in such an ill light. I agree with the above statement
Sister-in-law = loon :S


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## Seefutlung (Apr 28, 2009)

Based upon the slight information provided ... your sister-in-law is nuts and a control freak. This is all family ... and you're concerned about legal ramifications? What you did 95% of the US population would consider a very nice, considerate and actually a wonderful deed. (There must be a few who have a religious or cultural thing about being photographed ... I'm assuming you and family do not.)

Why does she feel you need to have her permission for the photos? As you are on this forum, I suspect you also took photos with your own equipment ... does she have a problem with that? What's the dif? 

Again, she is a control freak, you have two choices, you can bite you tongue and say "Yes ma'am, I am sorry ma'am." ... in order to preserve peace in the family by walking around the elephant in the living room ... or excerise the fact that humans have backbones and tell her that she is completely wrong and that she will not control your actions as long as your actions are legal, ethical and not harmful in any manner. (And then stand back and watch the fireworks. In which case she will use your nephew as a weapon against you and say that you cannot see him again or at the least never keep him overnight.)

I doubt that this control thing happened overnight ... so the family has been enabling her to act this way by saying "... that's Susan ..." and walking around the said elephant. So, remember by exposing the elephant ... by illuminating what everybody has been ignoring, will make you the bad guy. 

(There are a number of other alternatives, but most of those involve the sister-in-law coming to the table in an open and receptive fashion ... which I don't think is gonna happen.)

Hopefully, your wife and her the mother can intervene and try to bring the control freak nearer the top of the bell curve of social behavior. Don't let you sister-in-law's problem(s) become your problem or destroy your good feeling for performing a good deed. If you do capitulate in order to preserve "peace", use that card for more photo equipment.

Good Luck,
Gary

PS- (Hopefully you're not a felon or equal that she would suspect you could/would do something illegal or unethical with the photos ... but then again if you were or if she had any suspicions about your character, then she should not have left them with you in the first place).
G

PPS- If you ever want to have photos taken of my kids with your kids (on your nickel) ... let me know.
G

PPPS- You sister-in-law is a loon.
G


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## PushingTin (Apr 28, 2009)

There are always 2 sides to every story but from your side I would say you had a wonderful gesture in mind and its a pitty your sister in law over reacted...


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## gsgary (Apr 28, 2009)

I feel for her husband


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## Chris of Arabia (Apr 28, 2009)

I've merged the two threads and left it in the 'General Shop Talk' forum. No need to keep this running in two places.


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## gparsons26 (Apr 28, 2009)

I'm actually great with children.  I've been a scout leader for 4 years, had a daycare for 3, and currently a CASA, Court Appointed Special Advocate for our local court system, "I advocate for abused and neglected children."  My sister in law and I don't exactly get along because I have more than questioned her parenting skills.  She rarely lets us have our nephew as punishment.  I haven't said anything about her parenting in years, and only have when absolutely necessary for the safety of my nephew.  The pictures were kind of a "thank you" for allowing us to keep him.  We've missed him so much only seeing him a handful of times over the last year.  So this may help explain her behavior.  There are two sides to every story and I'm sure she's just always on the defensive.  I just wanted to make sure I wasn't going to have charges pressed on me or a lawsuit in the near future.  I doubt I'll try more nice gestures for her anytime soon.  If it wasn't that, it would have been something else she was mad about.


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## Seefutlung (Apr 28, 2009)

If she is reasonable (normal) with other people ... then it's just between you two ... if this is so ... then have a chat with her ... mano-y-mano ... and sorta duke it out. Have her take off the gloves and tell you what is bothering her and vice vesa. If there is any middle ground you can find it ... or if you two can agree to disagree ... well that's good too. Maybe she just doesn't like being corrected in front of others (not saying you do that) ... in which case you may be able to find a solution. 

The bottom line is that she is keeping cousins from seeing each other ... not that this is the end of the world or anything ... but you only have so much family ... so let the parents put yesterday behind them so the kids can enjoy tomorrow.

Gary

PS- Does CASA = attorney?
G


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## bdavison (Apr 29, 2009)

Id send her a bill.


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## epp_b (Apr 29, 2009)

Send her a can of Planter's, she'll feel right at home


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## gparsons26 (May 1, 2009)

:lmao:OMG! That's crazy! I can't believe I misspelled nephew that many times and never noticed. I'm such an idiot... bet I won't do it again! 
Thanks everyone for your advice. 
UPDATE! I went to pick up my pictures and they ID'd me. They said my crazy sis-in-law had been calling them non-stop about the pics and was trying to get them before I could. She even confronted me at McDonald's and was screaming at me in front of my kids. She's either on drugs... or needs them bad!


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## Hobbes (May 1, 2009)

OMFG! Your sister in law seems like a stuck-up *****, no offense to her but I have been taking pictures of strangers on the streets and I have never got into trouble because of that. It's her child but she does not the right to tell people whether they are allowed to take pictures of him or not. This is almost laughable.



gparsons26 said:


> :lmao:OMG! That's crazy! I can't believe I misspelled nephew that many times and never noticed. I'm such an idiot... bet I won't do it again!
> Thanks everyone for your advice.
> UPDATE! I went to pick up my pictures and they ID'd me. They said my crazy sis-in-law had been calling them non-stop about the pics and was trying to get them before I could. She even confronted me at McDonald's and was screaming at me in front of my kids. She's either on drugs... or needs them bad!



Now I wonder what you brother did to deserve that woman... but I guess love could make people blind


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## bigtwinky (May 1, 2009)

Wow... your sister in law has major issues.

I thought her initial reaction was overboard, but somewhat typical for the society we live in where everyone sues everyone, thinks they know everything.

But her calling the print shop??? Man, I really feel for her entourage.

You tried to do a really nice gesture.  No harm on you - and nothing illegal.

I feel for your nephew too.


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## Seefutlung (May 1, 2009)

gparsons26 said:


> :lmao:OMG! That's crazy! I can't believe I misspelled nephew that many times and never noticed. I'm such an idiot... bet I won't do it again!
> Thanks everyone for your advice.
> UPDATE! I went to pick up my pictures and they ID'd me. They said my crazy sis-in-law had been calling them non-stop about the pics and was trying to get them before I could. She even confronted me at McDonald's and was screaming at me in front of my kids. She's either on drugs... or needs them bad!


 
I think her unaurthorized pick-up of property which does not belong to her, would have been considered theft ... which I believe may be illegal in most if not all of these United States.

I think counseling would be the best thing ... put that on the table so the rest of the family knows that you'll meet her half-way. As another poster stated ... there are two sides to every coin ... but if you, (it's general knowledge that 90% of all males are unbiased in their reporting), are accurate and if she will not consider some joint counseling/mediation/mitigation/interventation sessions ... then, (seriously), you just gotta stay away ... cut her off ... she is completely without ration ... and any irrational relationship will be detemental.

Gary

PS- Dude, I feel for you .. but also find this very entertaining. What does your wife think of all this? Keep me in the loop. 

PPS- If it were me, I'd feed the beast ... keep doing stuff that will drive her berserk. This level of entertainment is hard to find ...and when you do you have to nurture it until it blossoms. But then again, I'm a sicko ... lol
G


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## CrimsonFoxPhotography (May 1, 2009)

I'm not going to criticize this woman; I'll simply use this as an opportunity to explain why some people do get concerned.  We know that the point of "release forms" are for the publication of images not the taking, but I can see how someone could assume that it is strictly for the latter.  Secondly, some people ask that their picture not be taken simply because they don't want to take the chance of it "getting out there."  In other words, they assume that if it's taken, it will show up in print or online etc.  Say what you will about this woman, but there are a good number of people who feel this way - they just handle the issue with civility.


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## photogincollege (May 1, 2009)

> I'm not going to criticize this woman; I'll simply use this as an opportunity to explain why some people do get concerned. We know that the point of "release forms" are for the publication of images not the taking, but I can see how someone could assume that it is strictly for the latter. Secondly, some people ask that their picture not be taken simply because they don't want to take the chance of it "getting out there." In other words, they assume that if it's taken, it will show up in print or online etc. Say what you will about this woman, but there are a good number of people who feel this way - they just handle the issue with civility.


  I don't think peoples feelings about her have to do with how she felt, I could see more people feeling that way, but its the way she acted and went about it, that got people insulting her.


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## Hobbes (May 1, 2009)

photogincollege said:


> I don't think peoples feelings about her have to do with how she felt, I could see more people feeling that way, but its the way she acted and went about it, that got people insulting her.



lol that explanation about why she acted the way she did makes no sense  but I guess there is always an explanation for human behaviors. I just wish that most people wouldn't be so uptight and take everything so seriously or be so paranoid. I mean I for one would LOVE to take pictures of kids especially when I walk around in a park on a nice day but I am usually to afraid to do that because I don't want the parents or whoever to think I am a pedophile or have any kind of intention to harm their children or anything. I do understand why some parents are so overprotective course I would probably act that way too but jumping to conclutions so quickly is not the best way to protect a child.


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## tomhooper (May 1, 2009)

Sounds like your brother needs a good divorce lawyer.


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## kundalini (May 1, 2009)

Seefutlung said:


> PPS- If it were me, I'd feed the beast ... keep doing stuff that will drive her berserk. This level of entertainment is hard to find ...and when you do you have to nurture it until it blossoms. But then again, I'm a sicko ... lol
> G


 Too right.  I'd find it difficult to resist the potential fireworks..... espacially when they are so needless.

If all is true, then she does need some counseling.  Good on 'ya for trying to offer a good feeling.

I think Gary also hit on another point that is often gone amiss.  Put the spotlight on the elephant in the room.  Unless outragious behaviour is identified, then harmony is often gone to the wayside.  The initial sting is easily forgotten and later appreciated by the family coming together.

Good Luck.


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## gparsons26 (May 3, 2009)

Ok, new update.  She went to the studio and demanded all the pictures or she would sue them.  They called the police and she was arrested.  Now who's the one doing something illegal?  LMAO!


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## DWS (May 3, 2009)

w-o-w! 
that would be the last time I would ever do anything for her.....she's a true loose cannon...


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## Jaszek (May 3, 2009)

gparsons26 said:


> Ok, new update.  She went to the studio and demanded all the pictures or she would sue them.  They called the police and she was arrested.  Now who's the one doing something illegal?  LMAO!


HAHAHAHAHAHA
ps: she's a loon lol


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## lc1102002 (May 3, 2009)

wow...try not to feel bad. sounds like your sister in law has a screw loose and needs to lighten up.


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## Seefutlung (May 3, 2009)

Man, you don't even have to feed the beast ... she makes her own fireworks without any provocation by you.  Quick bake her a cake with some film inside and deliver it to jail.

Gary

PS- With her in your family you won't ever need cable or a library card.

G


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## Hobbes (May 4, 2009)

gparsons26 said:


> Ok, new update.  She went to the studio and demanded all the pictures or she would sue them.  They called the police and she was arrested.  Now who's the one doing something illegal?  LMAO!




OMG! hmmm there must be something wrong with her and now I do feel sorry for her. I mean a normal person wouldn't do such idiotic thing. Maybe you should call dr Phil ^^


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## harleyrider (May 5, 2009)

SrBiscuit said:


> your sister in law is a loon.


or a crack pot .that was a nice thing you did.


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## Cat nt Tat's Dusky (May 5, 2009)

McQueen278 said:


> I miss the less ridiculous times when people thought for themselves and could determine when something was appropriate without a permission slip.


 
Boy, if that isn't the glaring truth!!!!

I'm betting she'd have thrown a bigger fit if you had gotten her permission, then handed her a bill for your work! Give her a bill for the 4 days you watched her kid!

No good deed goes unpunished!


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