# "If You Don't Like It, Don't Look!"



## Bitter Jeweler (May 3, 2012)

Anyone want to discuss the validity of that statement in regards to conflict resolution?

I have come to find it a rather selfish suggestion when two parties disagree.
I feel it's an absurd stance to take when we are discussing public decency, or behavior.
Like the guy on the bus listening to music through headphones so loud everyone around can hear it.
Can we use "if you don't like it, don't listen?"

At a restaurant you glance over and see a guy pick his nose and eat the reward.
There's no laws against it.
It can't be unseen.
But you know...if you don't like it, don't look.

You are mixing in a world of various values and beliefs. No one belief is true for everyone. Who gets to dictate what's right and wrong?

If someone farts on an elevator, everyone is disgusted. But it's a natural process, and EVERYONE farts. It's healthy to pass gas.
Why is it considered so wrong then? Can we say in defense, "if you don't like it, don't smell it?"

When you are in public, amongst people of mixed values and beliefs, how can one apply playground rules?
What happened to intelligence, logic, and for god sake simple consideration for others?

Have we really become that selfish?

Can't we apply that same rule some people hold so dear to things like abortion, or gay marriage?
I mean seriously. If you don't like it, then just don't look! 

We don't need to create laws for or against. JUST DON'T LOOK!
Pretty simple, no?


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## Trever1t (May 3, 2012)

This should prove interesting if everyone could discuss rationally and maturely but I am in doubt if that is completely possible given the history here. There's a point to don't say something if you ain't got nothing nice to say. There's a difference between my stinky fart and just moving on to the next thread....if you don't believe me ask my wife 

There's a big mix of individuals on this site, from various nations, multicultural. People are going to disagree, eh?


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## Majeed Badizadegan (May 3, 2012)

What side of the fence are you on, Bitter? What do you think?


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## Bitter Jeweler (May 3, 2012)

There is the same mix of cultures and nations in public places just like this site. This discussion is geared towards people's actions in real life, rather than here. Although, you make a point that there isn't really a difference between the two.

This is a carry over from a locked thread posted earlier today.


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## Netskimmer (May 3, 2012)

The problem is that the line between acceptable and unnacceptable is purly and completely subjective. The general guidlines are put in place by ones religion and culture but it can still vary greatly from person to person. So I think the important question is how do we respond when our line differs from someone elses. I always try to look at things from the other person's perspective and understand there reasoning but I also want to stand up for my own beliefs and not be a doormat. It's a slippery slope to be sure.


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## MTVision (May 3, 2012)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> Anyone want to discuss the validity of that statement in regards to conflict resolution?
> 
> I have come to find it a rather selfish suggestion when two parties disagree.
> I feel it's an absurd stance to take when we are discussing public decency, or behavior.
> ...



Based on the locked thread I stand by what I said. If you don't like seeing mothers breastfeeding their children in public then honestly don't look because in most places in the US you can't do anything about. Its not a selfish suggestion - its all you can do 90% of the time. 

I do think women should be discrete and have consideration for others but I don't think they should have to hide in a bathroom stall to feed their children. 

And there are* laws *protecting womens right to public breastfeeding. As of 2011 at least 44 states have laws that specifically allow women to breastfeed in public. Those laws came into effect because not enough women were breastfeeding. In some states (like my state), if a breastfeeding woman is asked to leave or is told she has to cover up or leave she can file a charge of discrimination with the human rights commission or may be bring action for injunctive relief and compensatory and punitive damages and any other appropriate relief in the superiour court on the county in which the violation happened. 

People don't agree with or like homosexuality. So should people who fall in love with the same sex go out of their way to hide it from people because they are afraid to offend someone in public? 

And my statement (if you don't like it then don't look) could probably go for a lot of things but I was specifically talking about something that is a *right*protected by law (in most places).


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## Trever1t (May 3, 2012)




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## Derrel (May 3, 2012)

This must be about that breast feeding picture thread from earlier today...that got out of hand almost immediately, with one poster calling anybody who disagreed "ignorant". The degree of sanctimonious indignation in that thread was sickening...made me think of that classic Monty Python sketch about the "upper class twit of the year" competition...


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## LizardKing (May 4, 2012)

Probably it's not the best idea to continue with the same argument here, if it caused so many problems in the other post. 
It seems to me that Bitter Jeweler is trying to analize the conflict from a more general perspective, and not only applied to the breastfeeding situation.

I believe his question is more than valid and would probably be interesting to talk about it over a couple of beers 

I apologize in advance if you find my way of writing complicated... English is not my natural language as you can probably see, so sometimes I tend to write in a more complicated way jajaja

Anyway... With all the different costumes and cultures mixed in today's world, it seems hard not to offend others with our actions or sayings... Maybe sometimes you do it and don't even realize it.
I've always tried to follow the "don't do to others what you don't like they do to you" philosophy (or whatever the english version for this concept is jaja), and works pretty good for me most of the times. Of course this isn't always enough, so what happens when you cross someone elses line or they cross yours?

If someone's crossing your line, you have 2 options: Say something or not. It seems obvious we need to understand that sometimes people won't realize they did something that offended you, so if you think is important enough as to say something, then be nice! 

Now, if you've crossed someone's line and they raised their complaint to you, again you have 2 options. Take it nicely and -if possible- do something to revert the situation, or tell them 'if you don't like it, don't look' jajaja

And there's the actual problem, I think. People don't tend to be nice when complaining to others, less when others are complaining about us... And that's where the real problem is, I think. 


Anyway, enough for now... jajaja

Regards,
*LizardKing*


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## Dominantly (May 4, 2012)

Perception is key here, and I am sure you've heard that perception is reality.

If a group perceives something to be perverse or lewd, who is to tell them that their views are not valid?



On a side note, the federal laws are for federal property. Each state mandates it's own legislation, and I would find it very troubling to hear of any law that told a private property owner that they could not control what happens on their property.
For example, if a sign in a cafe says "No Shirt, No shoes, No exposed boobs", then anyone who violates it should be delt with.


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## MTVision (May 4, 2012)

Dominantly said:


> Perception is key here, and I am sure you've heard that perception is reality.
> 
> If a group perceives something to be perverse or lewd, who is to tell them that their views are not valid?
> 
> ...



Last time I'll mention this topic but....You should check out the laws in your state. If a cafe owner had that sign in their window they would probably be sued.  A cafe/business that is privately owned but operates for the public cannot tell a women she can't breastfeed on their property. 


Cal. Civil Code § 43.3 (1997) allows a mother to breastfeed her child in any location, public or private, except the private home or residence of another, where the mother and the child are otherwise authorized to be present. (AB 157)


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## gsgary (May 4, 2012)

In the pub where i drink there is a sign on the bar saying breast feeding welcome i think its great


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## GeorgieGirl (May 4, 2012)

Bitter, if what you are suggesting is that people ought to be more considerate of the impact of their actions on others; I do think that thinking outside of yourself is a good way to live. By the same token, it would be a better world if people were more tolerant of others minor indiscretions, and in particular look inside first and question why they are so intolerant. 

Some situations, like breastfeeding in public, are so benign in the grand scheme of things that its a puposeful move in life to notice the activity, check the box, and move on without giving it too much thought or emmotion. It's not cavalier to suggest don't look, its an alternate way of saying why get all riled up about something as trivial as this.


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## Compaq (May 4, 2012)

I believe relevant laws are on the periphery of this discussion. Just because you have a right to do something, doesn't mean you should do it at all places. This discussion is, the way I've understood it, more about general consideration toward our fellow beings.

Street photography may be allowed, but, imo, there's a line between taking a picture and disturbing people's peace. The same goes for breastfeeding. It's great mothers are allowed by law to do this publicly, but one should use discretion. Cover up things, don't do it at restaurants with people eating at the next table, etc. Suckling sounds may not exactly trigger your apatite. Many places have special "nursing rooms", with comfortable chairs and stuff. I've never been in there, but I've heard  Some mothers might feel offended by that, but it's true. Just because it's natural and necessary, doesn't mean it's a wonderful sight to all others.

Just because you're allowed to do stuff, doesn't mean you should practice your rights without discretion.


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## Jaemie (May 4, 2012)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> Have we really become that selfish?



Perhaps selfishness is the essence of the matter. It seems to drive our desire to have our opinions heard. To want others to understand our perspective. Even advocating for the common good is usually just an exercise in extending our desires. We never argue for the common good when it conflicts with our own interests, do we?

I hope everyone sees how right I am.


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## Compaq (May 4, 2012)

Even though most don't admit it, we're driven by evolution to think well of our own successes, and think less of other's. We're selfish beings. At the end of the day, we're animals, though animals that have decided to live in societies. We've learned through our evolution that being kind and polite helps ourselves. In every action, you can find something that benefits the one doing it. Deny it as much as you like, but I believe every action is driven by selfishness, in a conscious or unconscious manner.

/my beliefs


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## manaheim (May 4, 2012)

MTVision said:


> Dominantly said:
> 
> 
> > Perception is key here, and I am sure you've heard that perception is reality.
> ...



Megan, what you seem to be missing is that it's not about laws, it's about some measure of consideration for others who might not be totally comfortable with what you're doing.

It's perfectly legal for me to walk up to someone, stand about 3" from their face and waggle my tongue at them, and it doesn't harm them in any way, but does that mean I should do it?  It's perfectly legal for me to wear a speedo and sneakers at a PTF meeting, and it doesn't harm anyone, but should I do it?  It's perfectly legal for me to sing the Star Spangled Banner in the middle of a religious oratory, and it doesn't harm anyone, but should I do it?

The simple fact is that no one would really deny anyone their right to do any of these things, but in all cases, I think the bulk of people in attendance to the event would feel that the behaviour was a little... shall we say... overmuch.

Legally defended rights _must _be overbroad _by necessity_ for them to work because there's simply no way to determine or communicate "reasonability" in a law, but the problem is that then people become unreasonable.  Women need to be able to breast feed their children in public.  Absolutely.  Women should not have to be stuffed into a bathroom stall or other such place to do it.  No argument.  Do they need to do it in a busy checkout line at a Walmart?  Mmm... I think probably this is where the whole "reasonability" thing becomes a bit of a question.  For me, that seems a bit... overmuch.  I think most folks would concur.

If you ask me, your argument is just more of the fist-pounding drama that has gotten us into a very bad way in this country.  It's not reasonable.  It's defensible, unfortunately... but it's not reasonable.


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## manaheim (May 4, 2012)

Compaq said:


> I believe relevant laws are on the periphery of this discussion. Just because you have a right to do something, doesn't mean you should do it at all places. This discussion is, the way I've understood it, more about general consideration toward our fellow beings.
> 
> Street photography may be allowed, but, imo, there's a line between taking a picture and disturbing people's peace. The same goes for breastfeeding. It's great mothers are allowed by law to do this publicly, but one should use discretion. Cover up things, don't do it at restaurants with people eating at the next table, etc. Suckling sounds may not exactly trigger your apatite. Many places have special "nursing rooms", with comfortable chairs and stuff. I've never been in there, but I've heard  Some mothers might feel offended by that, but it's true. Just because it's natural and necessary, doesn't mean it's a wonderful sight to all others.
> 
> Just because you're allowed to do stuff, doesn't mean you should practice your rights without discretion.



I should have read all the way through before I responded.  Compaq nailed it.


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## KenC (May 4, 2012)

To follow along the selfishness idea, I think a big problem with any society is that many people seem to have a tendency to want laws that prohibit behavior they don't approve of or wouldn't engage in themselves, whether they are likely to see it or not.  If we get past that, then we can have a reasonable discussion about appropriate time and place, but otherwise the discussion polarizes into those who want to ban something and those who want no restrictions at all.

Re the breastfeeding issue, there are many instances of private incidents, like arguments between couples, screaming babies, people spilling things on themselves, etc.  In these cases, most people react by just looking away to avoid embarrassing those involved.  Why don't people have that reaction to breastfeeding?


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## manaheim (May 4, 2012)

KenC said:


> To follow along the selfishness idea, I think a big problem with any society is that many people seem to have a tendency to want laws that prohibit behavior they don't approve of or wouldn't engage in themselves, whether they are likely to see it or not.  If we get past that, then we can have a reasonable discussion about appropriate time and place, but otherwise the discussion polarizes into those who want to ban something and those who want no restrictions at all.
> 
> Re the breastfeeding issue, there are many instances of private incidents, like arguments between couples, screaming babies, people spilling things on themselves, etc.  In these cases, most people react by just looking away to avoid embarrassing those involved.  Why don't people have that reaction to breastfeeding?



I think you're jumping to the same unreasonable conclusion that Megan is.

No one here said "doing XXX" should be BANNED.  No one.  Not a single soul.

The minute you even IMPLY this, THEN the discussion becomes polarized.


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## Designer (May 4, 2012)

Hey, Bitter.  I'm sorry, I don't think I understand your point.  

I will, however, offer to answer your question: "Have we really become that selfish?"

Yes.  I see quite a lot of selfishness lately.


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## Robin Usagani (May 4, 2012)

Have you guys watched Mad Men?  Time change.. we cant control it.


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## slackercruster (May 4, 2012)

OP, you make valid arguments. But, in society there must be some flexibility. 

Who is going to make the laws? If we get too restrictive then we get a Hitler like society.

 In general, if it is legal, then a person can do as they please. Sometimes this is tempered with some sort of decency that the person uses to control their actions. Other times, it is not. Just got to suck it up and move on if we don't like something when what bothers us is legal for others to do.

The bottom line is humans are selfish. This is the fly in the ointment with communism. If one is 'selfless' such as ants or bees communism works great. It is only when human selfishness is injected that communism fails miserably. 

Read 'Animal Farm' by Orwell...sums it up.


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## Trever1t (May 4, 2012)

Some people take things (and themselves) way to seriously and attempt to force their point of view (beliefs) on others, or shame others for having a differing point of view. It's one thing to discuss, another to point fingers and call someone wrong for an emotion.


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## Netskimmer (May 4, 2012)

I have to agree that there are laws and there is common courtesy and mutual respect. Just because something is legal doesn't make it right and just because something is illegal doesn't make it wrong. If we start looking to the federal government for our moral compass things are going to go horribly, horribly wrong.


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## jwbryson1 (May 4, 2012)

I'm coming in at the end of this discussion, but I went back to look at the original image from the earlier post that spurred this discussion.  My wife breast fed our 1 year old daughter in public when she had to but she never "flopped it out" and began feeding the baby.  She did it very discretely under a cover hung around her neck so you could not see anything.  I can't imagine having an issue with this--to think otherwise, to me at least, would be very unusual and selfish in a sense.  Certain things are not appropriate for public viewing, but I don't find this to be one of them, provided it's done discretely.  On the other hand, I can't imagine seeing a breastfeeding mom feeding a baby and NOT being discrete about it.  I don't think there is anything "dirty" about it, but I do think is mandates some sort of self-consciousness and discretion.

Just my $0.02.  YMMV.


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## o hey tyler (May 4, 2012)

OMG I LOOKED! MY EYES!!!!!!!!


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## GeorgieGirl (May 4, 2012)

manaheim said:


> Megan, what you seem to be missing is that it's not about laws, it's about some measure of consideration for others who might not be totally comfortable with what you're doing.
> 
> The simple fact is that no one would really deny anyone their right to do any of these things, but in all cases, I think the bulk of people in attendance to the event would feel that the behaviour was a little... shall we say... overmuch.
> 
> ...



I took a few of your lines out to keep this concise...

I personally don't think that Megan is pounding her fists or has missed the idea of consideration. I believe that she continues to point to the laws because they allow for a particular action to take place and that the action itself is not conisderd to be lewd or immoral.

The reaction that people have to breastfeeding when and where they witness it is personal and each one is entitled to their opinion, but that's just a talking point because at the very heart of the matter, the various laws allow for breastfeeding in public without retaliation or a subset of rules from any single one of us so that WE feel more comforatable about it or begin to start to like it better.

At the end of the day, IMHO, all that is being said here are shared exchanges of personal reactions to this topic. I don't think there is, or that there can be a right or a wrong to a personal reaction on this photo, but I do think insisting that there is only one way to react to what was seen in the photo, or to look down on the person in the photo as a result, is kind of severe.


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## MTVision (May 4, 2012)

manaheim said:
			
		

> Megan, what you seem to be missing is that it's not about laws, it's about some measure of consideration for others who might not be totally comfortable with what you're doing.
> 
> It's perfectly legal for me to walk up to someone, stand about 3" from their face and waggle my tongue at them, and it doesn't harm them in any way, but does that mean I should do it?  It's perfectly legal for me to wear a speedo and sneakers at a PTF meeting, and it doesn't harm anyone, but should I do it?  It's perfectly legal for me to sing the Star Spangled Banner in the middle of a religious oratory, and it doesn't harm anyone, but should I do it?
> 
> ...



Seriously? Where did I ever say women don't have to be considerate of others? I never once said women should be able to walk around topless with a baby hanging off one side. Never. 
I didn't say I agreed with that picture in the least - she wasn't very discrete which from what I've seen most women are. I've never actually (other then that picture) seen a women breastfeeding publicly like that. 

I did say in the beginning of my other post that women should be considerate of others but they shouldn't have to hide in a bathroom stall either. 

The only reason I even posted the California law is because someone said they would be upset (don't know exact word used) I they ever heard of law dictating what a private property owner could do on his property. Hopefully as most adults know, there are many laws that tell private property owners what thy can and can not do on their property. The breastfeeding law was relevant.

How is my argument that women should be allowed to breastfeed in public just more fist-pounding drama? I never said anyone had to like it. Do they have to deal with it in most cases - yes. It's no different then anyone other right or anything for that matter. Anti-abortionists have to deal with knowing doctors perform abortions everyday. People have a right to own/bear arms. In some states there are hardly any gun laws so the person in the checkout line in front of you might have a concealed weapon. Maybe you don't like it - do you have to deal with it - yes.


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## manaheim (May 4, 2012)

I never said you said that women don't have to be considerate any more than anyone on this thread OR the other one said they should have to go into a bathroom stall.

THAT is what I mean by you embarking on desk-pounding drama.  You're adding drama where there isn't any.

People do this in discussions a lot... they somehow leap to some conclusion about what the other person is stating (or implying) when the didn't _say any such thing_.  Then they respond emotionally to that assumed statement and throw it back at the person.

It's the equivelent of...

Person 1: "Look at this picture. It's funny."
Person 2: "They have a legal right to do that.  They shouldn't have to be forced into hiding."
Person 1: "Errr... what?"

I _do_ completely get the "Hey, while I get that it's a bit gauche, women get persecuted about this a lot. It's a pretty sensitive subject, it might not be the kindest thing to make fun of them", that hardly seems like the approach you've taken here.

Whatever.  It was silly for me to get in the middle of this. Obviously you feel very passionate about it and I can understand that.  I just figured maybe the whole thing was spiralling sort of out of control due to the emotional response.


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## jwbryson1 (May 4, 2012)

Let's cut to the chase.  If the woman is hot, she should be able to whip them out any where, any time, any place.  

Oh, c'mon.  I kid...


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## MTVision (May 4, 2012)

manaheim said:
			
		

> I never said you said that women don't have to be considerate any more than anyone on this thread OR the other one said they should have to go into a bathroom stall.
> 
> THAT is what I mean by you embarking on desk-pounding drama.  You're adding drama where there isn't any.
> 
> ...



"Megan, what you seem to be missing is that it's not about laws, it's about some measure of consideration for others who might not be totally comfortable with what you're doing."

all it did was reiterate what I had already said about women and heir consideration for others - in response to you saying that I was missing the point. What the hell in my post was unreasonable? 

Yeah - nobody else said anything about a bathroom stall. I said it obviously. My opinion. Fist-pounding drama right?


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## GeorgieGirl (May 4, 2012)

No drama...Just some healthy male chest beating, me thinks....


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## manaheim (May 4, 2012)

MTVision said:


> manaheim said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well, um, yeah... it does kinda toss some gasoline on the fire.


BTW, you caught my response mid-edit.  Please read it again.


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## paigew (May 4, 2012)

Wow, seriously!!! I am so sad to hear you guys talk like this  I mean come on, this forum is the one that got all excited about the new nutity section, no?? I breastfed my daughter for 15 months and am currently breastfeeding my 9 month son. I am sure that most of Austin has seen my boobs. Yes, I feed my kid when he is hungry. I take my boob out of my shirt where ever I am and feed him. I do not use a cover, its already 95 degrees here. Plus, using a cover is a PITA. Being offended by that is offensive. Boobs are made to feed babies. The human race wouldn't be in existance without breasts. Sheesh people. Get over it! I feel offended when I see a sweet newborn baby sitting in a bouncer seat with a bottle shoved in her mouth. Babies deserve the loving connection of breastfeeding, not to mention the health benifits. Babies crave the boob, they are born to find the boob! Within minutes of birth if placed on the mothers tummy they will wiggle themselves up to the boob all on their own. So yes, I get saddened (not 'offended') by seeing babies be bottlefed, but I would never say anything to a bottle feeding mother. Feeding our children is our business. Whether its via bottle, boob, or mcdonalds. Breastfeeding should be celebrated, photographed, and normalized.


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## paigew (May 4, 2012)

and serioulsy, how selfish are we as a human race that we would rather a baby scream out with hunger pains than to 'allow' a woman to breastfeed her baby in line at the checkout? Screw the baby, I don't want to see that? Serioulsy? WE are the adults.


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## jwbryson1 (May 4, 2012)

paigew said:


> I am sure that most of Austin has seen my boobs.




I am not "offended" by seeing a woman breastfeeding.  My wife breast fed our 2 kids for over a year, sometimes in public when necessary.  But, what's wrong with using a cover just to be discrete?  I see nothing wrong with this.


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## paigew (May 4, 2012)

I suppose I could dig through my diaper bag and try to find my cover (if I remembered to bring it). Put it on and get baby latched while standing in the checkout line trying to pay without slowing down other people behind me. WHILE trying to keep my 2 year old from grabbing candy off the shelfs (even though she is in the shopping basket strapped in). While holding said (hungry) baby....sure, I'll get right on that for you.


or...I could grab screaming baby, stick him on the boob and be out of the store in 3 minutes leaving the easily offended shoppers to finish without the background noise of my kids hungry/frustrated/mad cries


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## manaheim (May 4, 2012)

paigew said:


> I suppose I could dig through my diaper bag and try to find my cover (if I remembered to bring it). Put it on and get baby latched while standing in the checkout line trying to pay without slowing down other people behind me. WHILE trying to keep my 2 year old from grabbing candy off the shelfs (even though she is in the shopping basket strapped in). While holding said (hungry) baby....sure, I'll get right on that for you.
> 
> 
> or...I could grab screaming baby, stick him on the boob and be out of the store in 3 minutes leaving the easily offended shoppers to finish without the background noise of my kids hungry/frustrated/mad cries


 


paigew said:


> and serioulsy, how selfish are we as a human race that we would rather a baby scream out with hunger pains than to 'allow' a woman to breastfeed her baby in line at the checkout? Screw the baby, I don't want to see that? Serioulsy? WE are the adults.


 


paigew said:


> Wow, seriously!!! I am so sad to hear you guys talk like this  I mean come on, this forum is the one that got all excited about the new nutity section, no?? I breastfed my daughter for 15 months and am currently breastfeeding my 9 month son. I am sure that most of Austin has seen my boobs. Yes, I feed my kid when he is hungry. I take my boob out of my shirt where ever I am and feed him. I do not use a cover, its already 95 degrees here. Plus, using a cover is a PITA. Being offended by that is offensive. Boobs are made to feed babies. The human race wouldn't be in existance without breasts. Sheesh people. Get over it! I feel offended when I see a sweet newborn baby sitting in a bouncer seat with a bottle shoved in her mouth. Babies deserve the loving connection of breastfeeding, not to mention the health benifits. Babies crave the boob, they are born to find the boob! Within minutes of birth if placed on the mothers tummy they will wiggle themselves up to the boob all on their own. So yes, I get saddened (not 'offended') by seeing babies be bottlefed, but I would never say anything to a bottle feeding mother. Feeding our children is our business. Whether its via bottle, boob, or mcdonalds. Breastfeeding should be celebrated, photographed, and normalized.



Well, and there you have it.

I mean ... you pretty claearly stated that you can't be bothered to cover up or move off to a more discreet location.  The people around you will just have to deal with it.   You're calling others selfish in your remarks, and yet your own remarks seem pretty selfish if you ask me.

Meanwhile, you villainize anyone else who would dare suggest you do otherwise.

Bitter, I think you have your answer.


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## gsgary (May 4, 2012)

jwbryson1 said:
			
		

> Let's cut to the chase.  If the woman is hot, she should be able to whip them out any where, any time, any place.
> 
> Oh, c'mon.  I kid...



I see loads on a night on the town the girls love to get them out


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## gsgary (May 4, 2012)

paigew said:
			
		

> Wow, seriously!!! I am so sad to hear you guys talk like this  I mean come on, this forum is the one that got all excited about the new nutity section, no?? I breastfed my daughter for 15 months and am currently breastfeeding my 9 month son. I am sure that most of Austin has seen my boobs. Yes, I feed my kid when he is hungry. I take my boob out of my shirt where ever I am and feed him. I do not use a cover, its already 95 degrees here. Plus, using a cover is a PITA. Being offended by that is offensive. Boobs are made to feed babies. The human race wouldn't be in existance without breasts. Sheesh people. Get over it! I feel offended when I see a sweet newborn baby sitting in a bouncer seat with a bottle shoved in her mouth. Babies deserve the loving connection of breastfeeding, not to mention the health benifits. Babies crave the boob, they are born to find the boob! Within minutes of birth if placed on the mothers tummy they will wiggle themselves up to the boob all on their own. So yes, I get saddened (not 'offended') by seeing babies be bottlefed, but I would never say anything to a bottle feeding mother. Feeding our children is our business. Whether its via bottle, boob, or mcdonalds. Breastfeeding should be celebrated, photographed, and normalized.



Good on you, one of the most natural things in the world and i would never be offended


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## punch (May 4, 2012)

for the love of all that is holy, breastfeeding is legal and normal.  

personal dislike leading to cultural standards for something has led to a lot of ridiculous cultural issues: racism, sexism, homophobic hate crimes, etc.  your personal dislike doesn't come into play when someone is doing something that is their right and is legal.  in that case, it DOESN'T matter what you think and dislike of something personally gives you no rights except for to not look.  so your ONLY choice in a matter like this is to not look if you don't like it, and that has nothing to do with selfishness.  it's simply out of your control.  context of the matter has to come into play.

this is a largely male-dominated forum, and sometimes... you really whip out your dicks and look like fools.  it's shameful, a lot of it.

i'd love to see you eat with a blanket over your head or in a stall.


----------



## paigew (May 4, 2012)

manaheim said:


> paigew said:
> 
> 
> > I suppose I could dig through my diaper bag and try to find my cover (if I remembered to bring it). Put it on and get baby latched while standing in the checkout line trying to pay without slowing down other people behind me. WHILE trying to keep my 2 year old from grabbing candy off the shelfs (even though she is in the shopping basket strapped in). While holding said (hungry) baby....sure, I'll get right on that for you.
> ...



Look its not like breastfeeding women just love to whip it out. I would love if my baby only needed to eat when I was near a nice comfy chair, where it was quiet and I could sit and feed my baby. But babies need to eat, and sometimes they need to eat (or poop, or cry, or burp, or puke) at less than convenient times. Its not like I look forward to breastfeeding when I am in less than ideal circumstances. Seriously, how offensive is it seeing a baby nurse? Really, its offensive? I find it offensive seeing news stories about toddlers being raped or their eyes being cut out in other countries. Seems american men are easily 'offended'. I am not 'villianizing' others, simply saying that you should stfu about it. We are feeding our kids. It is our jobs to make sure our babies are fed and happy and if you have a problem because you got a glimpse of boob skin while I was trying to comfort my crying (infant) son then get over yourself. You BEST not approach ME about it, I will throw a sh*t fit.


----------



## punch (May 4, 2012)

it says far more about the people concerned with seeing a boob used for nursing than it does about the women nursing.

i'll pound my god-damned desk until my hands are red, because that's how these cultural misunderstandings get understood.  

honestly, i really hate this forum.


----------



## flowness (May 4, 2012)

To the OP question - yes, you should just choose to look away from something you don't want to see. We have many rights, and if someone actually infringes on them, feel free to speak up. But there's no "right to not feel offended". Your feelings are up to you, and you alone. If we had that kind of right, I'd never again have to hear another guy call his wife/girlfriend "f------ b----", or a parent their child "f------ stupid" right in front of my child. 

And yes I do nurse in public, anywhere, anytime, with both kids. (Now, with an active 3 year old, sometimes it's the only way the 6 month old can get to eat!) I cover, or not, as it seems necessary to me. And FWIW, in 3 years, I've only ever gotten positive/approving comments.  If someone feels offended by my nursing, and says something, I'd be surprised. But I'm sure there's some aspect of their own parenting life that I would disagree with - and which they would not welcome my commenting on. So how about we just keep both our mouths shut?

EDIT: re-read that ... I don't actually nurse both kids together in public, talk about a logistical nightmare! But #1 had a good long run, and now #2 is getting the same.


----------



## paigew (May 4, 2012)

just to add...you can probably see more boob on the magazine covers at the check out line than you can by looking at a woman who is breastfeeding.


----------



## GeorgieGirl (May 4, 2012)

I am getting the idea that the gents think there needs to be some sort of modesty or inhibition when breastfeeding. I wonder why.


----------



## punch (May 4, 2012)

jealousy and stupidity.


----------



## paigew (May 4, 2012)

GeorgieGirl said:


> I am getting the idea that the gents think there needs to be some sort of modesty or inhibition when breastfeeding. I wonder why.


yes but no modesty allowed if I choose to take a boudoir self portrait. They would be calling for more boob as long as there is no baby in sight. Men are so sexist and selfish. BABIES people. Its all about the babies.


----------



## punch (May 4, 2012)

they do all the time, paige!  some men on this forum NEVER miss a chance to beg for nudity.  but they're offended when a nipple is visible for 8 seconds while a woman gets a latch right so she doesn't get blisters?

AMAZING.


----------



## IByte (May 4, 2012)

slackercruster said:
			
		

> OP, you make valid arguments. But, in society there must be some flexibility.
> 
> Who is going to make the laws? If we get too restrictive then we get a Hitler like society.
> 
> ...



Freaking pigs, 1984 was better


----------



## MTVision (May 4, 2012)

manaheim said:
			
		

> Well, and there you have it.
> 
> I mean ... you pretty claearly stated that you can't be bothered to cover up or move off to a more discreet location.  The people around you will just have to deal with it.   You're calling others selfish in your remarks, and yet your own remarks seem pretty selfish if you ask me.
> 
> ...



In my state, at least, breastfeeding mothers are a protected class (anti-discrimination laws). You cannot suggest that they cover up.  

http://hrc.vermont.gov/sites/hrc/fi...lette_v_Delta_Airlines___Freedom_Airlines.pdf


----------



## gsgary (May 4, 2012)

GeorgieGirl said:
			
		

> I am getting the idea that the gents think there needs to be some sort of modesty or inhibition when breastfeeding. I wonder why.



Not me, its not a problem in the UK


----------



## IByte (May 4, 2012)

gsgary said:
			
		

> Not me, its not a problem in the UK



Meh I have no problem seeing women breastfeeding, my wife did it when our daughter was younger, and will do it again for our next child (do in June BTW .


----------



## ClickAddict (May 4, 2012)

Ladies,

   I actually agree with your side of this debate, however some of the last few posts are crossing the line and do nothing to further your arguments.  Comments like "Men are sexist and selfish", and the jealousy and stupidity comments are attacks and plain simple Male bashing.  Your rights should not be ignored, but nor should everyone elses.


----------



## jwbryson1 (May 4, 2012)

manaheim said:


> paigew said:
> 
> 
> > I suppose I could dig through my diaper bag and try to find my cover (if I remembered to bring it). Put it on and get baby latched while standing in the checkout line trying to pay without slowing down other people behind me. WHILE trying to keep my 2 year old from grabbing candy off the shelfs (even though she is in the shopping basket strapped in). While holding said (hungry) baby....sure, I'll get right on that for you.
> ...




+ 1,000,000

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, until now.  You've made yourself loud and clear.


----------



## Trever1t (May 4, 2012)

no, I think if we are going to discuss the breast feeding issue here we need to remember it was a PHOTO of a woman breastfeeding that caused a WOMAN to critique with such ferver. No man was complaining. A woman complained that a man took a photo. Let's get real and back to basics.


----------



## jwbryson1 (May 4, 2012)

paigew said:


> Men are so sexist and selfish.



Umm....no, not really.  But you clearly have issues.


----------



## paigew (May 4, 2012)

ClickAddict said:


> Ladies,
> 
> I actually agree with your side of this debate, however some of the last few posts are crossing the line and do nothing to further your arguments.  Comments like "Men are sexist and selfish", and the jealousy and stupidity comments are attacks and plain simple Male bashing.  Your rights should not be ignored, but nor should everyone elses.



We as breastfeeding women are being singled out by 'some' men on this forum. We are being called selfish, and our actions vulgar. We have every right to be be pissed, and any man with a wife (mother) should be just as offended as we are. We selflessly give our bodies to our children so they can grow strong (emotionally and physically) and this is the treatment we get.


----------



## IByte (May 4, 2012)

paigew said:
			
		

> We as breastfeeding women are being singled out by 'some' men on this forum. We are being called selfish, and our actions vulgar. We have every right to be be pissed, and any man with a wife (mother) should be just as offended as we are. We selflessly give our bodies to our children so they can grow strong (emotionally and physically) and this is the treatment we get.



Tell you what lil lady, you and all the breastfeeding mothers out there can come over with my wife while I BBQ.  Just to let you know Notebook is banned from the household


----------



## paigew (May 4, 2012)

jwbryson1 said:


> paigew said:
> 
> 
> > Men are so sexist and selfish.
> ...



I clearly have issues with people who one day celebrate in a thread announcing the allowance of nudity in the forum. And during the same day members questioning why a 'fake dead body' is considered offensive. Yes, I do have issues when these same people attack breastfeeding women. I take it personally. If I don't want to see some fake dead, bloody woman on the forum I won't click, I won't post on how offended I am (if I was). Why should you have the right to tell me I am admittedly selfish for not covering up as I nurse my child. Suck it up, admit your wrong. Its not about me, or you, its about babies, and babies need to eat.


----------



## ClickAddict (May 4, 2012)

paigew said:


> ClickAddict said:
> 
> 
> > Ladies,
> ...



I agree you should defend yourself if you feel slighted.  How does calling me stupid, selfish and sexist help your cause?  (And yes those comments were directed at EVERY man. (or men from this site) Being a man and on this site they were directed at me.  It was Male bashing.  Just like you would not want Men to generalize and say "women cant drive" or "women are weak" etc.. (Statements I do not agree with, just making a point) nor should we have to tolerate being cast all together and denigrated as a group.  Again.  I support breast feeding in public, just suggested you (and some other ladies) should reconsider some statements made.


----------



## paigew (May 4, 2012)

ClickAddict said:


> paigew said:
> 
> 
> > ClickAddict said:
> ...



Obviously my comments were made to (and about) the men/people who are taking offense to breastfeeding (publicly). Those same men have been known to time and again post sexual comments about women in photos. So obviously they really don't have an issue with seeing boobs. They have an issue with boobs feeding babies.

I can think of hundreds of sexual comments made here. Off the top of my head, one photo of a womans lips taken from a car behind her was sexulaized...seriously, sex is all over this forum. I KNOW they don't have issues with seeing boobs. Sorry for generalizing, next time I will list names


----------



## Trever1t (May 4, 2012)

Yes, it's jealousy!


----------



## DScience (May 4, 2012)

GeorgieGirl said:


> No drama...Just some healthy male chest beating, me thinks....



Yes...male dominance at it's finest.


----------



## manaheim (May 4, 2012)

paigew said:


> manaheim said:
> 
> 
> > paigew said:
> ...



You assume to much.  WAY too much.

But then, that's the hallmark of your kind of argument isn't it?

Did I ever say what my position was on it?  Did I ever say I had a problem with it?  pfft.  Hell no. 

I tell ya what... next time you're standing right behind me in line and I have to fart, I'm going to cut it loose.  I won't hold it in or wait a couple moments, I'm just gonna haul off and let 'er fly.  After all... it's PERFECTLY natural, it's TOTALLY legal, and if anyone has a problem with it then they just have a problem with my digestive rights.

Sounds ridiculous?

Yes, well so does what you're saying.

I have children.  Two of them.  When they were babies, they got hungry and screamed like banshees just as any other child does.  I didn't pull out a bottle in the middle of the check out line and start feeding them, so I see no reason why you have to breast feed them right there either.   You do?  Fine.  I think you're being silly, but whatever works for you.

No one is supressing your rights or asking you to do anything unreasonable.  Hell, I frankly don't even personally care if you cover up or not.  Want to show me your breasts?  GO FOR IT.  I like breasts.  Breasts are awesome. 

Anyway, this whole this is aaaaaaaaaaaaaabsolutely ridiculous.   You can continue to pound your fists on the desk at someone else.  

Bye!


----------



## MTVision (May 4, 2012)

Trever1t said:
			
		

> no, I think if we are going to discuss the breast feeding issue here we need to remember it was a PHOTO of a woman breastfeeding that caused a WOMAN to critique with such ferver. No man was complaining. A woman complained that a man took a photo. Let's get real and back to basics.



Real and back to basics. It did start out that way but the woman in the picture was eventually called a "roaming milk machine". And some were amazed that she did it right there and blah blah blah. This thread was based on a comment I made pertaining to breastfeeding in public. In the OP it was brought into question about dealing with public decency. It is indecent (legally indecent) to walk around with ass or dick hanging out. It is not illegal to walk around with a boob out feeding a child. It is also indecent (legally) for females to walk around topless. But since females were created with boobs to feed our children it is not indecent nor illegal. Know the definition of mammal?? We aren't the only species to nourish our young with our mammary glands but we are the only species who look down on it or want it hidden from view. 

I do agree women should try to be considerate of others but I bet you don't want to hear a screaming baby either. It's a no win situation.


----------



## ClickAddict (May 4, 2012)

Names are not needed, but words like "Some" or "The ones that....." or even "Many" indicate you are not targetting everyone.  Of course specific names would certainly make it clear, however I get the feeling that would take you too long to type.


----------



## punch (May 4, 2012)

ClickAddict said:


> paigew said:
> 
> 
> > ClickAddict said:
> ...



if my comments were directed at EVERY man, i would have made that clear.  if you read back, i clarified to say SOME, or MOST, but never all.


----------



## GeorgieGirl (May 4, 2012)

Yup, there is no ecaping the joy that (some) men on this site have when it comes to womens boobs and nudity. Maybe the issue is that when a baby is being nursed they want to look, but can't because the lustful side of the brain is wanting to do the staring and staring is not allowed. So a cover up works and the world is a better place.


----------



## paigew (May 4, 2012)

manaheim said:


> I tell ya what... next time you're standing right behind me in line and I have to fart, I'm going to cut it loose.  I won't hold it in or wait a couple moments, I'm just gonna haul off and let 'er fly.  After all... it's PERFECTLY natural, it's TOTALLY legal, and if anyone has a problem with it then they just have a problem with my digestive rights.
> 
> Sounds ridiculous?
> 
> ...



No it doesn't sound rediculous. I wouldn't say anything to you. I would just think in my head 'that was gross/weird, or he must have gas'. I would no way go on a public forum blabbing on about how I can't believe he did that or how offended I was to see/hear/smell someone do that.

Anyway as you said yourself you fed your babies bottles, you knew how much they ate and when they would need to eat again. Breastfeeding isn't like that. We have no way of knowing how much our babies eat so if they are hungry, we feed. I'm not even going to go into the proven statics about how a rise in cortisol levels (from being allowed to cry) affects brain growth/development and future stress levels. If my baby is hungry I will feed him. I prefer not to 'teach' my infant son a 'lesson' in patience...one that he would never understand since babies live in the NOW. My two year old, yes she can wait, a baby....no.


----------



## Trever1t (May 4, 2012)

MTVision said:


> Trever1t said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



1) orignal comment was in distaste (by a woman) that a man posted an image of a woman breastfeeding.
2) further responses were in distaste by men and women.

Just so you know, here where I live, a woman may bare her breast in public and a man can go naked. Yes, in San Fransisco, men and women can walk around stark naked. I've seen both. I don't feel comfortable with either.


----------



## GeorgieGirl (May 4, 2012)

The whole farting analogy doesn't fly with me. Farting has its own set of rules and the 'norm' is that it should go unsuspected as to who did it. There are indeed some deviants who fart and don't care who knows about it, but the vast majority of people know that their job is to hold it in until they can either move to a location so that people will not know it was them who farted, or to be very discreete about sound and smell and hope for the best. 

As a vast people, we have been able to accomplsih alot on this one topic and without a law to guide us. I think we are doing a good job in this department.


----------



## Trever1t (May 4, 2012)

now this I can't argue with!


----------



## MTVision (May 4, 2012)

Trever1t said:
			
		

> 1) orignal comment was in distaste (by a woman) that a man posted an image of a woman breastfeeding.
> 2) further responses were in distaste by men and women.
> 
> Just so you know, here where I live, a woman may bare her breast in public and a man can go naked. Yes, in San Fransisco, men and women can walk around stark naked. I've seen both. I don't feel comfortable with either.



LOL!  I didn't know that. I guess I was thinking of public indecency laws. A guy a couple years ago answered the door to a pizza delivery person with his junk hanging out and was charged. But...we use to (not sure if it still happens) have a naked run that the college students put on. 

And that's the thing. I'd probably feel uncomfortable walking down the road next to a stark naked man. I probably can't do anything about it though. That was my whole point. Women are allowed to breastfeed anywhere they like. If it makes you uncomfortable that sucks but you can't really do anything about it. I was reading about some women (who to make a point) take their shirt right off and start nursing their kid. 

Honestly, before I ever had a kid I thought it was weird (breastfeeding itself) and said I would never do it. I have nursed in public and I live in a place where it is very encouraged. I am super shy so I am discrete and will try to find a private place. But that's me. Not everyone feels that way and that's their choice.


----------



## ClickAddict (May 4, 2012)

punch said:


> if my comments were directed at EVERY man, i would have made that clear. if you read back, i clarified to say SOME, or MOST, but never all.



Actualy I was very careful before posting.  First off I said "some posts" as there were some that did specify some men and not all. (I think most of yours did and thank you.) However, when you reply to a comment saying "......the gents ......" calling "the gents" stupid and jealous, you are refering to all men.  Unless a subgroup is specified ("some", "a few of" etc..) the entire group is the default.  This is getting off topic though and I need to get back to work.


----------



## PapaMatt (May 4, 2012)

Well, I am surprised  at the reaction of the trend I stated and the comments made by members of this site.  One being that my comments were tardy and not sincere in my replies to other member who were upset with the post..  Sent to me in a private e mail from the a member who is a LOCK KEEPER!

I see now you have your own trend picking up the shattered pieces from so many members.

Good luck to you all,  just keep a open mind, we all can not be perfect like you!

My god,  what would happen if I started another trend that I have on my mind!!!!


----------



## GeorgieGirl (May 4, 2012)

PapaMatt...don't take it to heart. We have the nude forum so you can keep things in perspective by thinking how on earth can you get a PM about what you did when on the other hand is perfectly OK to have nude shots of half-neked women and the predicatable adult drool and the show me more lustful comments that not one woman has ever shown intolerance too (afaik) But Alas...the nudes are art and your photojournalism is not. 

Boy what a fire-starter you are PapaMatt. :lmao:


----------



## flowness (May 4, 2012)

> It did start out that way but the woman in the picture was eventually called a "roaming milk machine".


 

Actually, I know a lot of nursing moms who would have laughed at "roaming milk machine". I did. Much like the photo in question - I guess it's what you read into it.
Some days, that is just how it feels.  (Part of normalizing it has to include admitting that it isn't always soft-focus, rocking-chair-in-a-sunlit-window cuddles.)
Therefore, I hope whoever originated that description doesn't mind if I appropriate it for my own use.


----------



## PapaMatt (May 4, 2012)

GeorgieGirl said:


> PapaMatt...don't take it to heart. We have the nude forum so you can keep things in perspective by thinking how on earth can you get a PM about what you did when on the other hand is perfectly OK to have nude shots of half-neked women and the predicatable adult drool and the show me more lustful comments that not one woman has ever shown intolerance too (afaik) But Alas...the nudes are art and your photojournalism is not.
> 
> Boy what a fire-starter you are PapaMatt. :lmao:





Thank you, I needed that


----------



## fotomumma09 (May 4, 2012)

Personally (and I BF all my babies) I'm a big fan of discretion. I don't like to draw attention to myself or make others uncomfortable. I appreciate the same of others. But that's just me.


----------



## PapaMatt (May 4, 2012)

fotomumma09 said:


> Personally (and I BF all my babies) I'm a big fan of discretion. I don't like to draw attention to myself or make others uncomfortable. I appreciate the same of others. But that's just me.





Oh, come on Betty, I saw you on TV kicking up your heels  :lmao:

just a joke


----------



## fotomumma09 (May 4, 2012)

PapaMatt said:
			
		

> Oh, come on Betty, I saw you on TV kicking up your heels  :lmao:
> 
> just a joke


----------



## IByte (May 4, 2012)

So in a nutshell
1.  Breastfeeding is healthy, and widely accepted.

2.  Discretion is good an also widely accepted.

3.  It's natural and they're boobs everyone.

Thank you for your patronage.


----------



## PapaMatt (May 4, 2012)

I was thinking of making my new avatar of  a women breastfeeding, what do you think?

:lmao::lmao::lmao:      maybe a new tread    :lmao:


----------



## Stradawhovious (May 4, 2012)

To Bitter's Original question.

Yes. If you don't like it, look away. Everything posted here, or done in public has the potential to offend _somebody. _If we had to take into consideration EVERYONE's feelings/political beliefs/religious background/morality we couldn't post,  say  or do ANYTHING.

Same goes with laws. It seems that many of the nannystate local governments are so worried that someone is going to get offended, or feelings are going to get hurt that nobody can do anything anymore.

As far as the breastfeeding issue is concerned, do whatever you want, wherever you want. The folks that are making a big deal out of it on either side of the issue are the problem, not the folks quietly practicing it.


----------



## Tee (May 4, 2012)

Meh...never mind


----------



## Jaemie (May 4, 2012)

ClickAddict said:


> Ladies,
> 
> I actually agree with your side of this debate, however some of the last few posts are crossing the line and do nothing to further your arguments.  Comments like "Men are sexist and selfish", and the jealousy and stupidity comments are attacks and plain simple Male bashing.  Your rights should not be ignored, but nor should everyone elses.



I agree. And fwiw..

1) I'm a woman
2) Never gave birth or breastfed, never will
3) I think breastfeeding in public is fine, drippy breasts visible in all their wholesome glory, noisy babies feeding away
4) If someone finds that uncomfortable, they should probably treat it the same way they treat any other body issue they find distasteful (for some people that might include junk adjustments, bare hairy chests, unusual body shapes): look away, try to ignore it, move on.
5) I like to look at bare breasts. ..for all sorts of reasons, prurient and otherwise  
6) Don't be mean. Anywhere. That includes here.


----------



## GeorgieGirl (May 4, 2012)

Tee...by way of example, just go to the Girls of TPF thread and generally speaking, the number of comments that would be in the caution zone or out of bounds in the workplace are quantifiable. No one (woman) makes a stink about any of it. But here we have comments, and I'll point to yours as an example since yours appear very clear, to be disapproval of the choices that women make when breastfeeding in public and that seem to have evoked similalry, particulalry in men, since that photo was posted here last night.

It's interesting how this has turned out. I'd have not given it a moments thought, but for these events that have brought the shared, and apparently in-common, opinions to light. 

Even with your photographers eye, I don't quite get yet why a nude would be OK in a digital format, but a mother nursing her child in reality must be more private.


----------



## Tee (May 4, 2012)

Actually, I initially asked why one couldn't wait 3 minutes to pay the cashier before feeding. I never expressed my feelings one way or another. I tend to lean libertarian so I'm all about personal choices.  My 3 sisters all fed openly. Its not shocking to me.


----------



## HughGuessWho (May 4, 2012)

Ummm. Oops. Excuse me. I came in the wrong door. I thought this was The Photography Forum.


----------



## GeorgieGirl (May 4, 2012)

Fair enough...we don't know though what this woman was doing. We don't know if she was elsewhere and came to the end of the feeding and needed to get on line and get out of there. I have to go back and look, I dont have a sense that there was a cart with items so I don't know what the circumstances were, but we are just assuming as we build our own ideas about the photo that she got on line and started nursing.

Edit: Checked ...it looks like there could be a man at the belt with items and the cart ahead of the mom could have been hers/theirs.


----------



## HughGuessWho (May 4, 2012)

Nice boobs, BTW


----------



## Tee (May 4, 2012)

I'll concede on the girls of TPF thread. I forgot about that one.  The generalizations led me to believe that every thread was filled with cat calls.


----------



## Crollo (May 4, 2012)

I don't think people who say "if you don't like it don't look\listen" understand that it's impossible to have an opinion or reaction to something until you see\experience it. You can't decide that you don't like a certain type of music if you've never heard it before, only idiots do that.

You're calling _us_ ignorant\narrow minded and respond by telling us to be ignorant and narrow minded. What are you, a politician?


----------



## MTVision (May 4, 2012)

Crollo said:
			
		

> I don't think people who say "if you don't like it don't look\listen" understand that it's impossible to have an opinion or reaction to something until you see\experience it. You can't decide that you don't like a certain type of music if you've never heard it before, only idiots do that.
> 
> You're calling us ignorant\narrow minded and respond by telling us to be ignorant and narrow minded. What are you, a politician?



That's the most ridiculous thing I've read. Nobody said that you had to like/dislike something before you've ever experienced/seen it. I'm not sure where that even came from. And unfortunately it is not impossible for someone to have an opinion/reaction to something they've never seen/experienced before. 

I think he said it best:


			
				Stradawhovious said:
			
		

> To Bitter's Original question.
> 
> Yes. If you don't like it, look away. Everything posted here, or done in public has the potential to offend somebody. If we had to take into consideration EVERYONE's feelings/political beliefs/religious background/morality we couldn't post,  say  or do ANYTHING.
> 
> ...



Saying if you don't like it then look away isn't telling you to be ignorant and/or narrow minded. It was a statement based on the fact that there isn't much else you can do. People aren't always considerate of others - that's life.  I don't know how that promotes ignorance. In life people have to deal with things that offend them or that they dislike all the time - most of the time you can't do anything about it.


----------



## jake337 (May 4, 2012)

MTVision said:


> Dominantly said:
> 
> 
> > Perception is key here, and I am sure you've heard that perception is reality.
> ...



I'm all for it as long as she doesn't care that I am staring at her tits for waaaayyy  toooooo loooonnngggggg!!!


----------



## prodigy2k7 (May 4, 2012)

I dont mind a woman breast feeding. I think there is a time and place for it (public or not). Although its kinda awkward when you are breast feeding while walking around. I think its more (i dont know the word) if you sit down while in public while the baby enjoys the nourishment. Why cant she wait until she is done checking out? I don't really see the urgency.


----------



## punch (May 4, 2012)

Tee said:


> Actually, I initially asked why one couldn't wait 3 minutes to pay the cashier before feeding. I never expressed my feelings one way or another. I tend to lean libertarian so I'm all about personal choices.  My 3 sisters all fed openly. Its not shocking to me.



have you been around a hungry baby?

and before you make a ludicrous argument that babies can wait and mothers can ignore crying, studies have been published in peer reviewed journals that show that biological mothers have a visceral reaction to their baby crying which is quite emotionally painful and their strong instinct is to fix the problem right away.

three minutes is an ETERNITY.


----------



## punch (May 4, 2012)

Crollo said:


> I don't think people who say "if you don't like it don't look\listen" understand that it's impossible to have an opinion or reaction to something until you see\experience it. You can't decide that you don't like a certain type of music if you've never heard it before, only idiots do that.
> 
> You're calling _us_ ignorant\narrow minded and respond by telling us to be ignorant and narrow minded. What are you, a politician?



you have a history of saying inflammatory, close-minded things that scream lack of experience.  as such, your opinion means quite a bit of nothing to me.


----------



## jake337 (May 4, 2012)

punch said:


> Tee said:
> 
> 
> > Actually, I initially asked why one couldn't wait 3 minutes to pay the cashier before feeding. I never expressed my feelings one way or another. I tend to lean libertarian so I'm all about personal choices.  My 3 sisters all fed openly. Its not shocking to me.
> ...




So my wife and I have these biological urges to do dirty things to each other.

Should we wait?

Nah, the line at Walmart looks just fine!


----------



## punch (May 4, 2012)

not the same.  you're comparing apples to oranges.

we've already been through comparing it to defication.  we've compared it to sex.

the arguments don't hold weight.

end point is simply that those of you that would be offended, male, female or otherwise, need to to just push your little lips together as hard as you can and bite your tongue, because it's unlawful to do anything else.


----------



## jake337 (May 4, 2012)

Dominantly said:


> Perception is key here, and I am sure you've heard that perception is reality.
> 
> If a group perceives something to be perverse or lewd, who is to tell them that their views are not valid?
> 
> ...



Perception, perception, perception!  There are an infinite number of variables at play.

Go to Stockton/Compton, dress yourself in all red jumpsuit, including shoes and hat, then tell that group of folks walking toward you "if you don't like red, don't look"!


----------



## jake337 (May 4, 2012)

punch said:


> not the same.  you're comparing apples to oranges.



Are you sure?  We are all animals with natural needs.


----------



## manaheim (May 4, 2012)

jake337 said:


> I'm all for it as long as she doesn't care that I am staring at her tits for waaaayyy  toooooo loooonnngggggg!!!



Your right to stare at her breasts is both legally protected, and won't actually hurt anyone... so go for it.

Carry around a copy of this thread and give it to anyone who complains.


----------



## punch (May 4, 2012)

jake337 said:


> punch said:
> 
> 
> > not the same.  you're comparing apples to oranges.
> ...



i'm sure!  read back.


----------



## jake337 (May 4, 2012)

punch said:


> not the same.  you're comparing apples to oranges.
> 
> we've already been through comparing it to defication.  we've compared it to sex.
> 
> ...



I didn't read that comparison and you missed my point.  It's about perception.  I would have no issue with breast feeding anywhere and I would have issues seeing two people getting it on in front of me in line.

The key is trying to understand others perceptions.


----------



## shortpants (May 4, 2012)

Funny I instantly knew this thread was about breastfeeding in public and  I've hardly read a thing on this site in months, so no keeping up with  any drama. Exposed boobs, the horror!


----------



## jake337 (May 4, 2012)

punch said:


> not the same.  you're comparing apples to oranges.
> 
> we've already been through comparing it to defication.  we've compared it to sex.
> 
> ...



It's not unlawful for someone to have their own opinion.  Where do you live?  North Korea?


----------



## jake337 (May 4, 2012)

punch said:


> jake337 said:
> 
> 
> > punch said:
> ...



So what some people jotted down on a thread holds weight? where?  Only opinions....


----------



## punch (May 4, 2012)

jake337 said:


> punch said:
> 
> 
> > not the same.  you're comparing apples to oranges.
> ...



i agree with you on that... fully.  that's why it's so important to me that the negative perceptions about breastfeeding wane.  

i've nursed a baby in a bathroom... until i thought you know what, I'D NEVER EAT IN THIS BATHROOM.  i was only in there for other people's comfort and that led to mine and my baby's discomfort.

i'd never hope or plan for someone to see me exposed.  most good citizens would plan to avoid trying to see it.  only an asshat would go out of their way to stare and only the biggest of asshats would ever say anything.  

perception IS key.  i hope people start to perceive breastfeeding as no big deal.

in my province, the government issued posters to do just that... normalize the image of a woman nursing.

thank the heavenly lord above i don't live in the states anymore.  i like a progressive mentality.

and to add, i don't see any point in regulating people's opinions, and you're so hilarious with your north korea joke!  ahahahaha.  :|  regardless, your opinions have to be just that... opinions.  and if someone with an opinion against nursing in public ever voiced it and asked for them to stop, they're commiting an offense.


----------



## MTVision (May 4, 2012)

jake337 said:
			
		

> It's not unlawful for someone to have their own opinion.  Where do you live?  North Korea?



It's no unlawful to have an opinion. It can be unlawful to voice/act on that opinion - depending on other factors. In Vermont you can't ask a handicapped person in a wheelchair to leave because they are taking up too much space just like you can't ask a breastfeeding women to cover up. They are both protected classes and there are anti-discrimination laws. 

Everybody has an opinion which is fine. You can dislike whatever you want but sometimes you can't do anything about it. And yes  people should be considerate of others but they don't have to. Would it be nice if everybody was considerate of everyone else? Yeah but it'll never happen. And it goes both ways - some think women breastfeeding in public should be considerate of others but maybe they think others should be considerate of the fact that they need to feed their infants and they feel they made the best decision for their child and should not be restricted. 

It's an argument that can't be won. Nobody will ever agree on this topic which is fine. Nobody has to agree it on it because until, and if, the laws ever change women will breastfeed how and where they choose.


----------



## Compaq (May 4, 2012)

Why the heck should I be offended by women breastfeeding openly in public? I'm not! 

HOWEVER, I don't think ALL PUBLIC PLACES are "suitable" for breastfeeding. Restaurants, for example. Breastfeeding makes sounds, and you can't "unhear" stuff - not really. The public is a big place, and I'm not saying that I don't think breastfeeding should be practiced anywhere in public. Just, use common sense. Would you think many people found it "uncomfortable" or "disgusting" that you're letting a small being suck things out of your body? 

Please, don't romanticise the process of breastfeeding. Yes, breasts are natural and necessary for survival. That is the penis as well. The penis isn't a beautiful organ. Sperm formation in scrotum isn't beautiful. Shooting it inside someone isn't beautiful. Yes, a necessity for survival, but not beautiful. Of course, you're of another gender than me, and you may actually find that process beautiful. You may want to do it everywhere. One thing this thread should teach you, is that not all men think it's "nice" for someone to breastfeed their baby ANYWHERE. Use your common sense, and see if it would be socially acceptable to do it.

I've been slightly annoyed by certain ladies' responses in this thread, and so my own opinions may be shaded by that. I apologize. To sum up my feelings on the matter:

- by all means, breastfeed publicly
- please be aware that some don't really "like" it
- don't whip it out with the attitude of "haters gonna hate". As crazy as it may seem to you, some people don't like it. You should try to take those into consideration.

The thing about the society is: The majority decides, but takes the minority into consideration.


----------



## punch (May 4, 2012)

it didn't used to be socially acceptable for a black man to use a white mens washroom.

THAT'S ARCHAIC.  so is saying that nursing in a restaurant isn't socially acceptable.  your 8 year old is likely smacking the crap out of his chicken fingers and i get to hear that too.  you live on a planet with other humans.  trust me, i know it sucks.  but i don't have a private island, and i'm guessing you don't either.


----------



## Derrel (May 4, 2012)

A bit over 25 years ago when I was working in camera sales, a man and woman with a child and a baby came in. The husband stayed with me, the wife and kids split off and went to the "other camera store" nearby. He told me they were going to Europe for the summer, and wanted to have a "complete outfit" and they needed it "TODAY!". I started pitching a complete system for him. I pitched the then-new Nikon N8008s, the 24-85 AF Nikkor as I recall, and a 70-200 zoom, and a flash, bag, polarizer,etc. I could tell by his and her clothes they had ample funds. The hubby was sold within 10 minutes!

Then he says, "Well, my wife needs to come back and report on what they have at the other store. We're headed to the airport today,as soon as we get the camera stuff. I'd love to buy this outfit right now, but I gotta wait for her on this."

So, very soon afterwards, she comes back with the small child beside her, and the baby in her arms. The husband tells me to, "Tell her all the cool stuff you just told me about this new autofocusing camera!", and so I launch into a quick summary, and about 30 second in, she asks me if I have a chair she can sit down in. I tell her, honestly, "Sorry ma'am but no, we don't have any chairs, the boss doesn't want us sitting down, ever, so we don't even have a stool in the break room." 

So, she sighs, then unbuttons her blouse, and pops out an engorged, bulbous, milky-white breast and the baby latches on. She is standing RIGHT across the glass counter, about three feet from me. Not making ANY attempt to cover the breast or baby, in any way,shape, or form....I mean, she's got the whole dang thing hanging out, and it's Dolly-Parton-like...

Yeah...weird...uncomfortable...and if you ask me, inappropriate as hell. Inappropriate because she was at MY place of work, and was extremely close to MY work area....and in a busy store, with her huge boob 80% exposed, for like 10 minutes, as we were trying to conduct business. At **that time**, almost 25 years ago, breast feeding in public, bare- and exposed-breasted, and with no cover over the baby, was considered rather,well...unacceptable. Much,much more so than today, after the big furor about public breastfeeding came to the fore some years after this incident. The best thing though was they bought the 8008s complete setup, and a bag, and I made a hefty commission off the entire setup. AND...I got a cool story to tell...


----------



## punch (May 4, 2012)

you know, derrel... i would NEVER have thought to do that, if only to not get oogled.

having said that, it's funny how when you're used to nursing every 2 hours for weeks upon weeks, your sensitivity to it being a boob and being out does go down.

each time i nursed, i started off very conservative and secretive, and as time went on, i became more lax.  it becomes SO unsexualized, and SO routine that you do lose some of that concern.

i still wouldn't have let you see my nipple, however.


----------



## MTVision (May 4, 2012)

Compaq said:
			
		

> Why the heck should I be offended by women breastfeeding openly in public? I'm not!
> 
> HOWEVER, I don't think ALL PUBLIC PLACES are "suitable" for breastfeeding. Restaurants, for example. Breastfeeding makes sounds, and you can't "unhear" stuff - not really. The public is a big place, and I'm not saying that I don't think breastfeeding should be practiced anywhere in public. Just, use common sense. Would you think many people found it "uncomfortable" or "disgusting" that you're letting a small being suck things out of your body?
> 
> ...



You must eat in extremely quiet restaurants if you hear a baby eating. It's not any louder or different sounding then a bottle. You go to a restaurant to eat - babies can't eat while there? They make less sounds then an adult eating. And you can't make restrictions like that. Women can breastfeed where they are allowed to be. If its public they can do as they wish. 

See the difference with boobs and penis is this - we are mammals and we are meant to nourish our young with our mammary glands. Breasts were made to feed babies - penises are for procreation not for nourishment. 

Yes and we all know people don't like it. Do they take into consideration that sometimes babies need to be fed then and there. Every 2 hours or more to be exact when they are young and breastfeeding. And actually no people don't have to be considerate of others. Should they - that depends.  Do you get dressed in the morning making sure you are considerate of others? Everything you say - do you always make sure to be considerate of others. Maybe people should be more considerate of others in every aspect of their lives - but it's not going to happen and you have to deal with. Just like everyone who wants breastfeeding mothers to be considerate of others - never gonna happen until its banned which I doubt it will ever happen. 

So until then we can try to make you see our side and vice versa and you can wish that we would be considerate of others but it won't happen. Just like most mothers would agree - I will do what's best for my child IMO before I ever think of being considerate of others. And this is from someone who rarely ever breastfeeds in public. Breastfeeding has so many benefits and it's sad that a lot of mothers won't do it because of the stigma attached


----------



## Dominantly (May 4, 2012)

How about we come to some sort of agreement on what is generally acceptable?


1. I'd say that a woman who has a reasonable amount of class, would (should) feed in such a way that does not draw attention to the act. If you do whip out a feeding device in a line, and go bare chest, then you're "that girl" (brother of "that guy"), and not at all dignified. 
2. If you're good looking, then all standards are relaxed. De-blousing might just be the best method in this situation.


----------



## Compaq (May 4, 2012)

Yes, I am considerate to others. If I bump into someone, I apologize. If someone tells me I've crossed some sort of line they have, I take that into consideration and stop my actions. I try my best to not be in the way, in any way.

Please remember I'm not talking about every public place. A park is public. I wouldn't look twice if someone breastfed there. A bench in a supermarket is public, and I wouldn't look twice there. But I think that using a cover (it's not that hard) helps a lot, and would make less people uncomfortable in lots of places. And if you were used to use a cover, you wouldn't place it in the bottom of the bag, would you? 

Is it too much to ask that if you're going to breastfeed in a public space with lots of people around you, that you cover up?? Seriously? I can see how routine plays a part, and that you're getting very used to it. But please answer my concrete question.


----------



## punch (May 4, 2012)

a cover is a fabulous idea.  

wouldn't you know it though, you can't get a good latch if you can't see where you put their face, which is when your nipple is actually exposed (not exposed DURING nursing, really).  and surprisingly enough, a lot of babies don't like blankets over their faces while they nurse, either.  often, it causes them to pull off and try to latch again which causes you to expose yourself even more, AND get sore nipples.

these logistics are all very easy for someone who hasn't ever nursed to work out, eh?

perhaps our motivation isn't to throw it in your faces... but rather, to nurse our babies without you looking like you want a turn.  you, being the hypothetical you.


----------



## MTVision (May 4, 2012)

Dominantly said:
			
		

> How about we come to some sort of agreement on what is generally acceptable?
> 
> 1. I'd say that a woman who has a reasonable amount of class, would (should) feed in such a way that does not draw attention to the act. If you do whip out a feeding device in a line, and go bare chest, then you're "that girl" (brother of "that guy"), and not at all dignified.
> 2. If you're good looking, then all standards are relaxed. De-blousing might just be the best method in this situation.



See in my experience most women don't just whip it out and go bare cheated. Some probably do but it's not the norm AFAIK.


----------



## MTVision (May 4, 2012)

Compaq said:
			
		

> Yes, I am considerate to others. If I bump into someone, I apologize. If someone tells me I've crossed some sort of line they have, I take that into consideration and stop my actions. I try my best to not be in the way, in any way.
> 
> Please remember I'm not talking about every public place. A park is public. I wouldn't look twice if someone breastfed there. A bench in a supermarket is public, and I wouldn't look twice there. But I think that using a cover (it's not that hard) helps a lot, and would make less people uncomfortable in lots of places. And if you were used to use a cover, you wouldn't place it in the bottom of the bag, would you?
> 
> Is it too much to ask that if you're going to breastfeed in a public space with lots of people around you, that you cover up?? Seriously? I can see how routine plays a part, and that you're getting very used to it. But please answer my concrete question.



And I'm considerate to others. I have breastfed in public. I'm shy so I do go and find a quiet non-busy area. If they have a special room I'll use it. I have breastfed my week old daughter in a restaurant. My first time ever in public and I guarantee nobody knew - I was super nervous and put my boyfriends sweatshirt on and put the baby inside the sweatshirt. But it's a lot easier to cover a newborn and keep it well hidden then it is for an older child. They are aware and don't want their heads covered - bottle fed babies don't have to have a blanket on their head. It's hot and uncomfortable. And when a women is breastfeeding they don't necessarily lift their entire shirt up and once the baby is nursing you will see no more skin then you would with a low cut shirt. If someone sees a nipple it will probably only be for a second and it was probably an accident - and accidents do happen. I don't want to show a bunch of strangers my nipple but it could happen. I would probably be embarrassed - more so then it would probably bother you. 

So yeah a cover would be nice but it isn't always feasible for everyone. Have you ever seen a baby breastfeeding - I know when I breastfed you couldn't see my nipple. 

And like I said before people should be considerate of others but not everyone is.  

If someone told you that you had to cover your head to eat because it offends them - you would do it because you don't want to be inconsiderate of other? I sure as hell wouldn't.


----------



## MTVision (May 4, 2012)

Dominantly said:
			
		

> How about we come to some sort of agreement on what is generally acceptable?
> 
> 1. I'd say that a woman who has a reasonable amount of class, would (should) feed in such a way that does not draw attention to the act. If you do whip out a feeding device in a line, and go bare chest, then you're "that girl" (brother of "that guy"), and not at all dignified.
> 2. If you're good looking, then all standards are relaxed. De-blousing might just be the best method in this situation.



I'm assuming your joking about #2 but even if you aren't - it's probably true for some.


----------



## GeorgieGirl (May 4, 2012)

Why is it that the guys are so uncomfortable if a nursing mom is not covered. Why??? Why has the idea of sound been raised as a part of this discussion on more than one occasion? 

Why are the guys having the issues with a visual or audible aspect of this activity? 

Is nursing somehow repulsive?


----------



## manaheim (May 4, 2012)

head->desk.

I need to unsubscribe from this train wreck so I stop looking at it.


----------



## Dominantly (May 4, 2012)

I don't think the nipple slip is the problem at all.

I think that because the breasts are viewed (disclaimer- not by all) as sexual objects, when they are a focal point such as during a feeding, the association makes some feel uncomfortable on a subconscious level. 
I also think that they probably would not be able to explain why it is, but they would still feel the way they do.

For example, if a woman simply took of her top and showed her breasts, you'd probably get a lot of shocked and positive attention (this will change with the group).


----------



## MTVision (May 4, 2012)

manaheim said:
			
		

> I love the comment about not letting someone see the nipple.  Love it.
> 
> So, what?  The nipple is what?  Private?  Offensive?  I mean, what about the nipple is different from the rest of your breast?
> 
> ...



Well let's see. It's OK to wear barely there shirts with your boobs popping out but heaven forbid you see a little boob when someone is feeding their baby. Boobs are OK for men to look at and most don't mind low cut or skin tight shirts but......definitely don't want to see them when they are being used the way we were meant to see them.  People have NO problem seeing cleavage and it's everywhere you look IRL, on magazines, etc. 

And exactly. Women can wear bikinis that cover only the nipple - so what's the problem with breastfeeding. It's OK if it's of a sexual nature - I don't get it. 
.


----------



## MTVision (May 4, 2012)

Dominantly said:
			
		

> I don't think the nipple slip is the problem at all.
> 
> I think that because the breasts are viewed (disclaimer- not by all) as sexual objects, when they are a focal point such as during a feeding, the association makes some feel uncomfortable on a subconscious level.
> I also think that they probably would not be able to explain why it is, but they would still feel the way they do.
> ...



That's exactly it.


----------



## MTVision (May 4, 2012)

manaheim said:
			
		

> head->desk.
> 
> I need to unsubscribe from this train wreck so I stop looking at it.



So unsubscribe. 

It's not really that hard.


----------



## GeorgieGirl (May 4, 2012)

I don't really get it either. Is it ok to be slutty sue and bounce and flash but when nursing you have to be moral mom and cover up?


----------



## punch (May 4, 2012)

the term "baby men" comes to mind.  thank GOD my husband wasn't one of those a-holes who can't figure out a dual functioning body part and could rationalize that and keep it together.


----------



## punch (May 4, 2012)

you know, manaheim... every time MTVision addresses what you've said, she's responding to it directly.  yet, you always start by telling her she doesn't understand... that's really condescending.

and if you're referring to me as "the other one" than YOU'VE grossly misunderstood.  the nipple IS the sexualized part of the breast in current culture.  recall the wardrobe malfunction at the superbowl.  i am working within current cultural context.  CLEARLY the breast tissue covered by skin is fair game, since half the women on this forum use avatars with their cleavage showing, which never seems to upset the forum users...


----------



## MTVision (May 4, 2012)

manaheim said:
			
		

> Yeah, again, Megan, you're seeeeeeeeeeeeeeriously not paying attention.
> 
> I don't think a single soul on this thread said they had a problem with...
> 
> ...



And you obviously aren't paying attention because of you've actually read anything I've written you'd know that I very rarely breastfeed in public. And I'm one of the people who said women should try to be discrete. Right? I've said it over and over again. 

 My whole point is that it doesn't matter if it makes you or anyone else uncomfortable. They can/do and will breastfeed anywhere and any damn way they want. They can let it all hang out. They can breastfeed next to you while you're eating at a restaurant. 

If nobody has a problem with 
A) breastfeeding
B) seeing breasts sexually or otherwise

Then what's the whole issue? Why does it make people uncomfortable? Why should women be more discrete? If there isn't an issue then this wouldn't be going on.


----------



## punch (May 4, 2012)

i'm sensing a baby man who doesn't like to get told ANYTHING by women, MTVision.  but he's unsubscribed now to save himself from our idioitic blatherings and inability to undersatnd.  what a blessing for him.


----------



## PapaMatt (May 4, 2012)

This tread is going down hill so fast with out any brakeman on board. To look or not does not matter just take a peak and go on your merry way in life!!!!


----------



## GeorgieGirl (May 4, 2012)

manaheim said:
			
		

> Yeah, again, Megan, you're seeeeeeeeeeeeeeriously not paying attention.
> 
> I don't think a single soul on this thread said they had a problem with...
> 
> ...



I don't think that is what it is. I think that you'd have to have done this to follow the lack of inhibition that comes from being forced to react to a child as a nursing mother does. I think that there has been a real amount of insight and detail that you might not have read or if you did that you have decided to ignore. The breast becomes benign to a nursing mother. It could just as easily be a baby bottle, and no one says boo about covering the bottle up or about the sounds a baby makes while taking a bottle. 

I think you have some more soul searching to do....


----------



## punch (May 4, 2012)

the whole forum can crash and burn... it usually does on a daily basis.

you can't ask about a 50mm focal length without a whole lot of pontificating and judgement.


----------



## PapaMatt (May 4, 2012)

punch said:


> i'm sensing a baby man who doesn't like to get told ANYTHING by women, MTVision.  but he's unsubscribed now to save himself from our idioitic blatherings and inability to undersatnd.  what a blessing for him.




I did not unsubscribe, just tired of all this childish bla bla bla

Just look for my next tread :lmao:


----------



## MTVision (May 4, 2012)

manaheim said:


> MTVision said:
> 
> 
> > Dominantly said:
> ...



 Please do.


----------



## MTVision (May 4, 2012)

punch said:


> you know, manaheim... every time MTVision addresses what you've said, she's responding to it directly.  yet, you always start by telling her she doesn't understand... that's really condescending.
> 
> and if you're referring to me as "the other one" than YOU'VE grossly misunderstood.  the nipple IS the sexualized part of the breast in current culture.  recall the wardrobe malfunction at the superbowl.  i am working within current cultural context.  CLEARLY the breast tissue covered by skin is fair game, since half the women on this forum use avatars with their cleavage showing, which never seems to upset the forum users...



Because Manaheim is a grown up who knows all and I misunderstand everything. Even though half the crap he wrote is exactly the same things I have written. Once again, if there was no issue with breastfeeding or seeing boobs then people wouldn't be suggesting that they cover up, show some consideration, don't do it in restaurants, etc.


----------



## punch (May 4, 2012)

PapaMatt said:


> punch said:
> 
> 
> > i'm sensing a baby man who doesn't like to get told ANYTHING by women, MTVision.  but he's unsubscribed now to save himself from our idioitic blatherings and inability to undersatnd.  what a blessing for him.
> ...



not you, papamatt.  i wasn't referring to you.


----------



## punch (May 4, 2012)

manaheim said:


> punch said:
> 
> 
> > i'm sensing a baby man who doesn't like to get told ANYTHING by women, MTVision.  but he's unsubscribed now to save himself from our idioitic blatherings and inability to undersatnd.  what a blessing for him.
> ...



you love to talk about desk-pounding.  it's only purpose is to nullify arguments you don't like, but can't argue with.

and i don't know you, nor do you know me, but we are judging each other by words and behavior, and i can't say that yours is any less appealing to me than mine is to you.  

there's no way to argue that you don't try to distract and ineffectively nullify every point made contrary to yours.  simply look back.


----------



## Dominantly (May 4, 2012)

This thread needs more 50mm talk.


----------



## PapaMatt (May 4, 2012)

punch said:


> PapaMatt said:
> 
> 
> > punch said:
> ...



I am so sorry, this is way out of control, I deleted all my info in my profile and i though you were talking about me. I seem to have started all this mess. Sorry


----------



## punch (May 4, 2012)

Dominantly said:


> This thread needs more 50mm talk.



50mm is a boring focal length.  when i say that, i mean that you're a fauxtographer and you're not ready to go pro.  stop charging.  and why don't you ever listen to my C&C?


----------



## MTVision (May 4, 2012)

PapaMatt said:
			
		

> I am so sorry, this is way out of control, I deleted all my info in my profile and i though you were talking about me. I seem to have started all this mess. Sorry



You didn't start anything. You posted a picture. It doesn't really have anything to do with you since you haven't commented on the topic since right after you posted the picture. 

And I'm not sure why you thought that comment was directed at your anyways


----------



## GeorgieGirl (May 4, 2012)

Dominantly said:
			
		

> This thread needs more 50mm talk.



No. It needs the guys to come clean and attempt to explain in a string of understandable words why they are having this conflict.


----------



## MTVision (May 4, 2012)

GeorgieGirl said:
			
		

> No. It needs the guys to come clean and attempt to explain in a string of understandable words why they are having this conflict.



Right? The don't mind breastfeeding or seeing boobs (according to manaheim) but it makes them uncomfortable. Jeez - I must be missing something.


----------



## punch (May 4, 2012)

can we be honest?  a breastfeeding breast is less than gorgeous.  what's to be excited about?


----------



## MTVision (May 4, 2012)

punch said:
			
		

> i'm sensing a baby man who doesn't like to get told ANYTHING by women, MTVision.  but he's unsubscribed now to save himself from our idioitic blatherings and inability to undersatnd.  what a blessing for him.



LOL!


----------



## Dominantly (May 4, 2012)

GeorgieGirl said:


> Dominantly said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have already explained why this is.


----------



## GeorgieGirl (May 4, 2012)

Dominantly said:
			
		

> I have already explained why this is.



You are right. I mean all of them. (wink)


----------



## GeorgieGirl (May 4, 2012)

punch said:
			
		

> can we be honest?  a breastfeeding breast is less than gorgeous.  what's to be excited about?



True. They are a hot mess.


----------



## punch (May 4, 2012)

GeorgieGirl said:


> punch said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



literally.  a hot mess.


----------



## PapaMatt (May 4, 2012)

GeorgieGirl said:


> Dominantly said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No I thought Punch was talking to me because I deleted my profile , I will up date it soon


----------



## o hey tyler (May 4, 2012)

O hi there. I noticed you guys like drama. 

I got you a present: 







Also, &#8203;ibtl.


----------



## MTVision (May 4, 2012)

o hey tyler said:
			
		

> O hi there. I noticed you guys like drama.
> 
> I got you a present:
> 
> Also, &#8203;ibtl.



Thanks! 

Doesn't everyone on this forum love drama? Any discussion/argument is considered drama and there is tons of that here on TPF.


----------



## punch (May 4, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


> O hi there. I noticed you guys like drama.
> 
> I got you a present:
> 
> ...



ironic.  i'm having a hard time thinking of a thread where you didn't make a snarky drama queen comment to stir the pot and show your ass.  case in point!


----------



## o hey tyler (May 4, 2012)

Nay! It's because of all you wimminz!

</TROLL POAST>


----------



## Dominantly (May 4, 2012)

punch said:


> Dominantly said:
> 
> 
> > This thread needs more 50mm talk.
> ...


I disagree. You should go pro.


----------



## MTVision (May 4, 2012)

o hey tyler said:
			
		

> Nay! It's because of all you wimminz!
> 
> </TROLL POAST>



WTH is a poast?


----------



## PapaMatt (May 4, 2012)

MTVision said:


> GeorgieGirl said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Maybe they are just jealous? Just a guess :lmao:


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## punch (May 4, 2012)

Dominantly said:


> punch said:
> 
> 
> > Dominantly said:
> ...



my friend asked me to do a wedding.  any tips?  i've never actually used an SLR.  she KNOWS what she's getting, it'll be fine.


----------



## o hey tyler (May 4, 2012)

MTVision said:


> o hey tyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's like forum toast. The stale bread of an interweb forum.


----------



## pgriz (May 4, 2012)

GeorgieGirl said:


> Dominantly said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What conflict?


----------



## Ballistics (May 4, 2012)

Wow I am late to this party, but I am sure glad I showed up!

So me being a part of that thread, I couldn't help but notice the back tracking taking place here. It is what it is though.

No, I don't think the act of breast feeding is wrong, or trashy (although the picture in question was borderline of both).
I merely couldn't help being perturbed about being told that if you find something wrong or disagree with public breast feeding, you are small minded and ignorant.


That's pretty much all i have to say being that many have already nailed the point like Compaq and Bitter. Carry on.


----------



## Crollo (May 4, 2012)

MTVision said:


> That's the most ridiculous thing I've read. Nobody said that you had to like/dislike something before you've ever experienced/seen it.



"if you don't like it then don't look at it"
It's all the same as with people who post "if you don't like this song then why'd you open the video?", how the hell are you supposed to magically know whether or not you like something, if it's *required* that you listen to it or see it or experience it? What that quote suggests is that you should've disliked it BEFORE you listened to it. And when somebody dislikes\likes something without actually knowing what it is, it's called being ignorant and narrow minded.

You can't control whether or not somebody breastfeeds in public so it's not like you can avoid looking at a woman breastfeeding in public unless _you knew beforehand that she was there breastfeeding._ 'If you don't like car accidents; avoid them' makes just as much sense as that phrase.

Either way, this has very little to do with breastfeeding. I don't care for breastfeeding, much like I don't care for politics or abortions. People want to breastfeed I don't care. This has to do with the logic behind the phrase, which to me is nonexistant. _You're_ the one who brought breastfeeding into this.


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## flowness (May 4, 2012)

Ironically, IMO, men are usually not a problem. Some of my friends who've had problems with criticism about nursing in public -- _always_ been from another woman. Any negative stuff I've gotten (on other subjects) has also only come from women. It's not just BF/NIP, but on just about any aspect of mothering.


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## Derrel (May 4, 2012)

So, which breast-feeding mother would like to post a series of full-color photos of herself performing this natural, legally-protected act, and post them here in say, 1200-pixel wide, 240 ppi size so we can all get a good look? I mean, it's such a natural, acceptable, wonderful act, AND a legal right, so...let's see you ardent pro-public-breast feeding sharks post a bunch of pics of *you doing it*...

Who's up for this? No blankets, no cloths, no nothing...just nipples (at start and end, maybe some in the middle), slobber, exposed breast, and suckling babies! Yee-haw!

I'd say, the best shots would be with any lens length from 24 to 70 mm, and with off-camera flash with umbrella lighting, shot in RAW of course. I look forward to a bunch of normal,natural,beautiful, legally-protected photos, with plenty of tiddy showing.


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## punch (May 4, 2012)

flowness said:


> Ironically, IMO, men are usually not a problem. Some of my friends who've had problems with criticism about nursing in public -- _always_ been from another woman. Any negative stuff I've gotten (on other subjects) has also only come from women. It's not just BF/NIP, but on just about any aspect of mothering.



women can be very cruel to other women, especially when it comes to parenting.  co-sleeping, disposable vs. cloth, pacifiers, formula vs. breast, to circumcise or not to circumcise, vaccinations, homeschooling... the list is SO endless.


----------



## punch (May 4, 2012)

Derrel said:


> So, which breast-feeding mother would like to post a series of full-color photos of herself performing this natural, legally-protected act, and post them here in say, 1200-pixel wide, 240 ppi size so we can all get a good look. I mean, it's such a natural, acceptable, wonderful act, so...let's see you post a bunch of pics of you doing it...
> 
> Who's up for this? No blankets, no cloths, no nothing...just nipples, slobber, exposed breast, and suckling babies.
> 
> I'd say, the best shots would be with any lens length from 24 to 70 mm, and with off-camera flash with umbrella lighting, shot in RAW of course. I look forward to a bunch of normal,natural,beautiful, legally-protected photos, with plenty of tiddy showing.



i'm not sure the point you're trying to make... or why you're requesting it.  is it because you think you're calling a bluff, or because you want to have it for your own personal use, or both?

because i can point you to forums and flickr and blogs that do just that, if you'd like them.


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## Derrel (May 4, 2012)

punch said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> > So, which breast-feeding mother would like to post a series of full-color photos of herself performing this natural, legally-protected act, and post them here in say, 1200-pixel wide, 240 ppi size so we can all get a good look. I mean, it's such a natural, acceptable, wonderful act, so...let's see you post a bunch of pics of you doing it...
> ...



Nice try, but weak sauce punch...

Let's see you strident women put a little skin in the game, so to speak. Or, just shut up...'cause we all know, talk is cheap...and so are your insults...try a little harder to use your intellect rather than resorting to allegations of pervishness. Okay? Act like a grownup. Not a girl.


----------



## punch (May 4, 2012)

Derrel said:


> punch said:
> 
> 
> > Derrel said:
> ...



that's extremely offensive.

no one here has made the point that they want to be viewed while nursing, simply that it shouldn't offend you if you happen to glimpse it.  that's been the whole point all along.

i am really surprised at you, derrel... to be honest.  your post was really sh!tty.


----------



## Crollo (May 4, 2012)

punch said:


> it shouldn't offend you if you happen to glimpse it.



Damn looks like I'm gonna be walking downtown nude this Saturday, and if people don't like it, "don't look".


----------



## Dominantly (May 4, 2012)

punch said:


> Dominantly said:
> 
> 
> > punch said:
> ...



First, make sure to shoot in P-Professional mode. Next, if you buy some aluminum foil and shape it around the pop up flash so it directs it up, it'll produce great light and people will love to look at it.


----------



## punch (May 4, 2012)

Crollo said:


> punch said:
> 
> 
> > it shouldn't offend you if you happen to glimpse it.
> ...



yea... we won't.


----------



## Ballistics (May 4, 2012)

So "Don't like it? Then don't look" vs "Can I watch then?". Seems like an even match lol.


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## punch (May 4, 2012)

Ballistics said:


> So "Don't like it? Then don't look" vs "Can I watch then?". Seems like an even match lol.



try it.  you're underestimating the violence a new mom can unleash.


----------



## Crollo (May 4, 2012)

punch said:


> Crollo said:
> 
> 
> > punch said:
> ...



I know some people won't but why do they have to look if they don't like it?


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## flowness (May 4, 2012)

Derrell, I have lots of pix. Problem is, none of them meet your criteria. Mine all look like an actual mom & baby just doing their thing, which is to say - "nothing to see here".


----------



## punch (May 4, 2012)

Crollo said:


> punch said:
> 
> 
> > Crollo said:
> ...



you consistently don't make sense.  

the answer is, they don't.  they don't have to look at your crap in a speedo, and they don't have to look at nursing moms.  they don't.  control your eyeballs.


----------



## Crollo (May 4, 2012)

punch said:


> the answer is, they don't.



So then, tell me, you would know I'm nude, how?

We all seriously need to re-evaluate something if all the drama we have is over a thread about a phrase that somehow becomes directly connected to breastfeeding. Jesus christ.


----------



## pgriz (May 4, 2012)

This is a weird discussion.  The problem that the morality people have with breasts is that showing them will reveal to the kiddies the hypersexualized way they are being portrayed in society.  Yet breastfeeding is something that has been around even before we were a species.  So the tension is between playing the (North American) culture game in which the breast is (wink, wink, nudge, nudge) not to be shown lest people succumb to salacious thoughts and action, and the more rational view that it is an organ used to provide sustenance to babies.  My wife has breastfed each of our kids without causing a riot or undermining the morals of the population, as have each of my sisters-in-law...  

As for the aesthetics of breasts, they are not much different from other body parts.  There are pretty feet and ugly feet, nice bellies and ugly bellies, pretty faces and not so pretty faces...


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## Ballistics (May 4, 2012)

punch said:


> Ballistics said:
> 
> 
> > So "Don't like it? Then don't look" vs "Can I watch then?". Seems like an even match lol.
> ...



So let me get this straight, public breast feeding is ok... but watching is frowned upon? Are there state laws against watching? No? Than I'm protected?! You mean I can do it and if the mother doesn't like that I'm watching, than she shouldn't... look at me watching? "Sorry lady... you don't like that I'm looking? Don't look at me looking!"


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## punch (May 4, 2012)

Ballistics said:


> punch said:
> 
> 
> > Ballistics said:
> ...



i'm just saying... you should try it.


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## Ballistics (May 4, 2012)

pgriz said:


> This is a weird discussion.  The problem that the morality people have with breasts is that showing them will reveal to the kiddies the hypersexualized way they are being portrayed in society.  Yet breastfeeding is something that has been around even before we were a species.  So the tension is between playing the (North American) culture game in which the breast is (wink, wink, nudge, nudge) not to be shown lest people succumb to salacious thoughts and action, and the more rational view that it is an organ used to provide sustenance to babies.  My wife has breastfed each of our kids without causing a riot or undermining the morals of the population, as have each of my sisters-in-law...
> 
> As for the aesthetics of breasts, they are not much different from other body parts.  There are pretty feet and ugly feet, nice bellies and ugly bellies, pretty faces and not so pretty faces...



My kid seeing a boob is the least of my worries.


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## Crollo (May 4, 2012)

If you don't like insults then don't hear them.
If you don't like farts don't smell them.
If you don't like being raped don't get raped.
If you don't like pain don't get hurt.
If you don't like car accidents avoid them.
If you don't like dying then don't die.


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## flowness (May 4, 2012)

Meh. Go ahead & look at me. Doesn't hurt me, couldn't care less.


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## Derrel (May 4, 2012)

punch said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> > punch said:
> ...



Excuse me, but YOUR post was really shi++y,punch. Your ad hominem attack on me was uncalled for and juvenile. You allegations and insinuations of pervish desires on my part is what's called an "ad hominem attack",and was truly juvenile. Here's what my initial post was all about...just to help you out.

Rhetorical Devices: A Handbook and Activities for Student Writers - McGuigan, Brendan - Google Books

 Rhetorical Devices: A Handbook and Activities for Student Writers - McGuigan,Brendan.

 excerpt:*Device #1 Hyperbole: This is the most popular and commonly used rhetorical device in the entire world of rhetorical devices!


"Hyperbole is a powerful rhetorical form when used properly, but a terrible distraction when used improperly. It consists of exaggerating some part of your statement in order to give it emphasis or focus. Hyperbole is never meant to be understood literally by the reader, and you should make great care to make sure its intent is apparent."


Well, you see, punch, I guess I over-estimated your ability to recognize the #1 rhetorical device in all of writing... Sorry..I will not over-estimate you again...*


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## punch (May 4, 2012)

Derrel said:


> punch said:
> 
> 
> > Derrel said:
> ...



jesus christ, derrel... really?


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## Ballistics (May 4, 2012)

punch said:


> Ballistics said:
> 
> 
> > punch said:
> ...



What will happen? Will the woman beat on her chest and grunt and scream like an orangutan?


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## Crollo (May 4, 2012)

punch said:


> jesus christ, derrel... really?



There you go _again!_ If you didn't like that specific post, then why'd you read it and get insulted by it?


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## Derrel (May 4, 2012)

Quoting punch here:

*"jesus christ, derrel,really?"*

You brim with class when called out for attacking somebody, then trying to act all butt-hurt. [That is *sarcasm*, in case you don't recognize it!]


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## Robin Usagani (May 4, 2012)

Is this a photo forum?


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## punch (May 4, 2012)

Derrel said:


> Quoting punch here:
> 
> *"jesus christ, derrel,really?"*
> 
> You brim with class when called out for attacking somebody, then trying to act all butt-hurt. [That is *sarcasm*, in case you don't recognize it!]



hmm, further surprise... well, you learn something new every day.  i'm not hurt, rather, just surprised.  i had you pegged incorrectly.


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## bentcountershaft (May 4, 2012)

I'm extremely disappointed in you people.  No one seems to know how to bring the drama anymore.  I mean you see a thread of this length in the active topics with Bitter as the OP and a good catchy title and you think you have something fun to sink your teeth into.  But no.  Just this, this ****.


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## Derrel (May 4, 2012)

Schwettylens said:


> Is this a photo forum?



It is *NOW*, now that YOU are here dude! Glad you could make it after work!


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## Ballistics (May 4, 2012)

I think what is awesome here is that there is a clear split of people in this thread. You have the people that are in such an uproar and completely moved by other's comments, and then you have the other side who is filling this thread with satirical, only half serious replies that are getting such awesome responses. 

My name is Ballistics, and I approve this thread. :thumbup:


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## Robin Usagani (May 4, 2012)

I think the Mod needs to lock this one.  Then you can start another thread for Round 3


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## Crollo (May 4, 2012)

Schwettylens said:


> Is this a photo forum?



Hi there Schwetty. What's in your bag?


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## IByte (May 4, 2012)

Schwettylens said:
			
		

> I think the Mod needs to lock this one.  Then you can start another thread for Round 3



Ding Ding Ding.


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## Robin Usagani (May 4, 2012)

Crollo said:


> Schwettylens said:
> 
> 
> > Is this a photo forum?
> ...


Pair of balls in my Schwetty sack.


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## IByte (May 4, 2012)

Schwettylens said:
			
		

> Pair of balls in my Schwetty sack.



LOL


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## Ballistics (May 4, 2012)

Schwettylens said:


> Crollo said:
> 
> 
> > Schwettylens said:
> ...



Totally caught me off guard, 1000 likes for you and your subtlety.


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## bentcountershaft (May 4, 2012)

Subtlety is Schwetty's specialty.


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## pgriz (May 4, 2012)

Yawn....  G'nite, people.  see you in the morning.  Hopefully this thread won't be pushing 28 pages.


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## MTVision (May 4, 2012)

Crollo said:
			
		

> "if you don't like it then don't look at it"
> It's all the same as with people who post "if you don't like this song then why'd you open the video?", how the hell are you supposed to magically know whether or not you like something, if it's required that you listen to it or see it or experience it? What that quote suggests is that you should've disliked it BEFORE you listened to it. And when somebody dislikes\likes something without actually knowing what it is, it's called being ignorant and narrow minded.
> 
> You can't control whether or not somebody breastfeeds in public so it's not like you can avoid looking at a woman breastfeeding in public unless you knew beforehand that she was there breastfeeding. 'If you don't like car accidents; avoid them' makes just as much sense as that phrase.
> ...



Actually in case you are unaware the title of this thread is my statement on breastfeeding. And if you see a breastfeeding woman and you don't like it then look away. Simple really


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## Robin Usagani (May 4, 2012)

MTVision said:


> Actually in case you are unaware the title of this thread is my statement on breastfeeding. And if you see a breastfeeding woman and you don't like it then look away. Simple really



What if I like it?  Can I stare at her? :lmao:


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## MTVision (May 4, 2012)

Crollo said:
			
		

> Damn looks like I'm gonna be walking downtown nude this Saturday, and if people don't like it, "don't look".



If you live in San Francisco (or any other place that allows it) go right ahead.


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## punch (May 4, 2012)

it's SO simple, in fact.  too simple.  i have to assume that those that don't understand that are having far more complicated feelings.  they want to see breasts... but i surmise they're feeling guilt or  mommy-confusion or something and they admonish the act to make those  feelings go away.  it's the classic devil-female theme.  it's our fault they desire us to their detriment.

i'm not going to play semantics with some weird little middle-aged men who are always wanting to see what they can't.

see what i mean, megan?  it's toxic here.


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## Crollo (May 4, 2012)

MTVision said:


> Actually in case you are unaware the title of this thread is my statement on breastfeeding.



Well sure, but it's not about the act of breastfeeding itself, it's about the logistical value of the _phrase_ that was used in a breastfeeding thread.



> And if you see a breastfeeding woman and you don't like it then look away. Simple really



I understand that but what I don't understand is the concept of not being offended when you _first see it._ Of course the best thing to do would be to look away _after_, I agree. It would make no sense to _KNOW_ fully well that something over there offends you but you intentionally look at it anyways, that's just stupid... But if you don't _KNOW_ that something offensive is over there how can you blame somebody for being offended when they _do_ look?

[Keep in mind any instance of 'offensive' or the like is not directly related to any act. It's merely an expression, replace it with whatever you may deem offensive.]

Also, props Megan. You're one of the few people I've had the liberty of seeing that doesn't flip a **** in an argument and can hold a discussion civilly. That's more then I can say for myself. :/


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## Ballistics (May 4, 2012)

punch said:


> it's SO simple, in fact.  too simple.  i have to assume that those that don't understand that are having far more complicated feelings.  they want to see breasts... but i surmise they're feeling guilt or  mommy-confusion or something and they admonish the act to make those  feelings go away.  it's the classic devil-female theme.  it's our fault they desire us to their detriment.
> 
> i'm not going to play semantics with some weird little middle-aged men who are always wanting to see what they can't.
> 
> see what i mean, megan?  it's toxic here.



No, I just think the ingestion of human secretion is better done in private. Has nothing to do with any Freudian psychological babble.


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## MTVision (May 4, 2012)

Ballistics said:
			
		

> I think what is awesome here is that there is a clear split of people in this thread. You have the people that are in such an uproar and completely moved by other's comments, and then you have the other side who is filling this thread with satirical, only half serious replies that are getting such awesome responses.
> 
> My name is Ballistics, and I approve this thread. :thumbup:



But we can be in an uproar if we want. We can whip our boobs out and let a baby nurse on them right next to you and anybody else and there is t anything anybody can do  You can watch if that's what gets you all excited. 

Maybe someday people will realize that discrimination of any kind is wrong. And yes asking a women to be considerate or cover up is discrimination in some places. So you guys can make all the snarky comments you want. It doesn't change the facts. Law trumps consideration and if you don't fricken like something/anything then don't look.


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## MTVision (May 4, 2012)

Ballistics said:
			
		

> No, I just think the ingestion of human secretion is better done in private. Has nothing to do with any Freudian psychological babble.



Well that sucks to be you huh? Because once again there is nothing you can do about it


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## Ballistics (May 4, 2012)

Enough is enough, I'm just going to start punching breast feeding mothers in the face and then punch their babies in the face.

/Thread


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## Ballistics (May 4, 2012)

MTVision said:


> Ballistics said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's the best you can do?

Edit: I can watch, and I can also take pictures on public property. Done and done


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## MTVision (May 4, 2012)

Crollo said:
			
		

> Well sure, but it's not about the act of breastfeeding itself, it's about the logistical value of the phrase that was used in a breastfeeding thread.
> 
> I understand that but what I don't understand is the concept of not being offended when you first see it. Of course the best thing to do would be to look away after, I agree. It would make no sense to KNOW fully well that something over there offends you but you intentionally look at it anyways, that's just stupid... But if you don't KNOW that something offensive is over there how can you blame somebody for being offended when they do look?
> 
> ...



I never said you wouldn't be offended first. People don't like homosexuality. They probably get offended seeing 2 guys make out/hold hands. But after seeing it - they don't like it then they shouldn't look. Isn't much you can do that isn't illegal. You can say something rude (hate crime) or you can proceed with violence. That was my whole point. If you see something you don't like - ignore it, look away, whatever. You not liking it or being offended isn't going to change anything.


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## MTVision (May 4, 2012)

Ballistics said:
			
		

> That's the best you can do?
> 
> Edit: I can watch, and I can also take pictures on public property. Done and done



Go ahead. That's the best you can do?


----------



## MTVision (May 4, 2012)

Ballistics said:
			
		

> Enough is enough, I'm just going to start punching breast feeding mothers in the face and then punch their babies in the face.
> 
> /Thread



Wow! You have got to be the most idiotic person on this forum.


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## Ballistics (May 4, 2012)

LMAO hate crime. Freedom of speech, killer. Let's make another thread about how I can call someone a homophobic slur because I have rights haha.


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## Ballistics (May 4, 2012)

MTVision said:


> Ballistics said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is coming from the enlightened, open minded Ms. Megan.


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## MTVision (May 4, 2012)

Ballistics said:
			
		

> LMAO hate crime. Freedom of speech, killer. Let's make another thread about how I can call someone a homophobic slur because I have rights haha.



Yeah you do have rights. Just like I have my rights. 

And where I live you can't tell me to cover my titties if I'm Breastfeeding. That is a crime. It's called discrimination moron. Yup breastfeeding mothers are a protected class. 


I'm sorry I offended you so much by calling you ignorant.  I stand by it though.


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## Ballistics (May 4, 2012)

MTVision said:


> Ballistics said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm not offended one bit. I'm not the one calling you ignorant, or small minded, or a moron. Just wanted to point out the hypocrisy. 

However, you did call being rude to a homosexual a hate crime so taking you seriously would be very difficult lmao.


----------



## Crollo (May 4, 2012)

Ballistics said:


> This is coming from the enlightened, open minded Ms. Megan.



I agree that Megan is getting a little pushy right now, but to be fair you're really not helping by instigating and making personal comments. I may have said some stupid or senseless stuff but it wasn't aimed directly at her so of course she's going to keep an open mind. Push her with personal comments or insults she's going to react differently.


----------



## Ballistics (May 4, 2012)

Crollo said:


> Ballistics said:
> 
> 
> > This is coming from the enlightened, open minded Ms. Megan.
> ...



Did you even read our exchange?



			
				punch said:
			
		

> you consistently don't make sense.



Seemed fitting lmao.


----------



## MTVision (May 5, 2012)

Crollo said:
			
		

> I agree that Megan is getting a little pushy right now, but to be fair you're really not helping by instigating and making personal comments. I may have said some stupid or senseless stuff but it wasn't aimed directly at her so of course she's going to keep an open mind. Push her with personal comments or insults she's going to react differently.



And I'm sorry if it's irritating that I'm trying to defend my rights. I've conceded with everyone who said it made them uncomfortable and not one single person has even understood the other side. But you're not women - I get that. You may have kids but it's still different. Y'all think we should have consideration for everyone else but nobody should have consideration for us and our kids. It's not always feasible to do what everyone feels is considerate but does that matter to any of you. Obviously not because you've never been there so you have no idea. 

I'm done with this whole thing. This wasn't going horribly until some came in with their snarky, ridiculous comments. 

This wasn't directed at you Crollo!


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## Overread (May 5, 2012)

And I think we are through here since its heading into snark, insults and more so I'll just close this with






*sorry its the best I've got on the subject....


----------

