# and here we go...Lighting, how to make work QQ



## LFPrick (May 7, 2012)

I've been helping with photo shoots for a new/small biz my friend and I run. 
We have a canon T3, stock everything.
I usually don't shoot too many pics but I notice at all the shoots the lighting is severely messed up. I am not the photo expert and have no prior background in photography.
My friend who takes the pics and sets things up has worked for a photography company but seems to know very little about fine tuning things...which leave me horrible pictures to edit for product.

We usually just use a back drop (10x10 for example) 
This is the kit we use as well...e.e 
Amazon.com: CowboyStudio Photography/Video Studio Triple Lighting Kit with 10ft x 12ft Black, White and Green Muslins Backdrops and Background Support System with Case: Electronics


Three (3) Compact fluorescent daylight balanced photo light bulbs, 40 Watt/5000K
Two (2) White 32" Umbrellas, Three (3) AC Adapters
Three (3) 10' x 12' Black, White, Green Muslin backdrops
One (1) Support System, includes support stand, 3-section cross bars
Two (2) Top quality Light Stands, One (1) Mini Light Stand, One (1) Carrying case for the support system

(yesss I know its garbage but it was all we could afford at first and with little knowledge of equipment purchasing).

Here are some example pics...

































Lighting comes out horrible 99% of the time...any suggestions based on equipment and shoot types we do?
PLEASE halp.
THanks

*edit*
I own the rights to all these images(copyright lollipop factory productions), I do not give permission for use of them outside this thread. (not that I would see why anyone would want to)


----------



## vipgraphx (May 7, 2012)

I do not have enough experience in these types of lights to offer any help on lighting however I think all these pictures lack focus and composition. They are poorly executed and the models in bikini could be in better shape. The question I ask you is what kind of business do you run? I am not sure what you are selling here.....


----------



## gsgary (May 7, 2012)

These are the worst i have seen on here, your pop up flash would have done a better job sorry but you wasted $155


----------



## Village Idiot (May 7, 2012)

The lights are nowhere near powerful enough for what you're trying to accomplish. A setup with a few cheap monolights would be a million times better than trying to use the under powered constants you're using now.

Also, if you're going for a back drop, read up on how to build a setup. The black lego floor on a white sheet is just amateur. If you're charging people for these shots, you're doing a them a huge injustice and only hurting yourselves in the long run. Three monos with one umbrella and two gobos will look so professional up against that setup you're attempting to use now.

Read this and check out the photos to learn how you can also be a photographer (no seriously, Zack Arias is doing you a huge favor with this set of tutorials)
I've moved the blog > zackarias.com/blog » White Seamless Tutorial :: Part 1 :: Gear & Space

And then actually learn about lighting.
Strobist: Lighting 101

If you don't know how to light then you'll always be grabbing at straws when handed a set of lights and told to postition them for a shoot. I know I'm sounding pretty harsh, but from these photos neither you nor your friend have any idea of what you're doing.

Edit: Cowboy studio equipment is crap. One of the cheapest kits worth buying that I can think of would be something like this:
Flashpoint FP320MPWK Portrait Wedding Monolight Kit FP320MPWK

with this:
Flashpoint II FP320MK Monolight Kit, 150 Watt Second FP320MK

A set of radio triggers and a seamless background paper setup. You're looking at probably $750, but that's nominal in the grand scheme of things.


----------



## Mike_E (May 7, 2012)

The fact that you have customers at all puts you ahead of many startups, but.. check your PM.

Good luck


----------



## LFPrick (May 7, 2012)

THANK you all for the input thus far. Yes, I know these pics suckkk and yes, we are profiting from them but this is after I edit them, which doesn't make it a better picture but helps a lot far as some details go. Thats one reason why I am seeking to learn more about lighting, so we can get some better pics. Also I am sure with better backdrop set up, etc will go a long way as well. We use the lego mats b/c its on the fly and sometimes involves people who have dirty feet/shoes, food, drinks. I am taking in every bit of info I can get out of the community tho.
Thanks


----------



## MTVision (May 7, 2012)

LFPrick said:
			
		

> THANK you all for the input thus far. Yes, I know these pics suckkk and yes, we are profiting from them but this is after I edit them, which doesn't make it a better picture but helps a lot far as some details go. Thats one reason why I am seeking to learn more about lighting, so we can get some better pics. Also I am sure with better backdrop set up, etc will go a long way as well. We use the lego mats b/c its on the fly and sometimes involves people who have dirty feet/shoes, food, drinks. I am taking in every bit of info I can get out of the community tho.
> Thanks



A couple of suggestions:

Use a thicker background and move the subject further away if you can. Use an iron/steamer to get rid of the wrinkles. Moving the subject a good distance from the background may help hide some of the wrinkles. Seamless paper might be a better way to go - not too expensive and you can use it as the background and floor. Nice "seamless" transition. When it gets dirty/wrinkled just cut it.


----------



## GeorgieGirl (May 7, 2012)

What settings were you shooting at with these...they somehow seem out of synch.


----------



## Buckster (May 7, 2012)

GeorgieGirl said:


> What settings were you shooting at with these...they somehow seem out of synch.


EXIF is in them.  Last one shows 1/50th, f/3.5, ISO 800.  It's cheap, dim continuous light that's the problem on the lighting.  They needs strobes - badly.


----------



## LFPrick (May 7, 2012)

GeorgieGirl said:


> What settings were you shooting at with these...they somehow seem out of synch.


 


Buckster said:


> GeorgieGirl said:
> 
> 
> > What settings were you shooting at with these...they somehow seem out of synch.
> ...



Yes, these are the settings I locked in and use on M mode. I figured these settings would help since we don't use a tripod.
So should we go away from the continuous lighting and use a flash set up?
Also will be taking candid pictures during events, some dark like the one we did at a rave. There was also lots of smoke and the black lights bleed over onto our left side of the drop.
I notice the camera has a hard time focusing on groups and sometimes individuals, idk if its b/c of the lighting or photographers movement.

Also, whats a good store/site I can get this "seemless paper" at? 

Far as what we do, its model portfolios, pictures to put on posters and ads, live event photo booth type set up, candid photos. Pretty much w/e. Its more of a on the fly thing, we find a location to set up lights and drop to shoot the model/bikini girls for their work. 
I want to find a way to maximize quality out of the t3 (crisp, clear pictures) learn to shoot at optimal angles/form and get proper lighting b/c it just looks horrible.

The photos are bad but I can edit them to an extent and the people are having fun getting pics taken which help make up for the lack of quality, which is in part sad but also has some pros.


----------



## Buckster (May 7, 2012)

LFPrick said:


> GeorgieGirl said:
> 
> 
> > What settings were you shooting at with these...they somehow seem out of synch.
> ...


Get a tripod.  Seriously.



LFPrick said:


> So should we go away from the continuous lighting and use a flash set up?


Yes.



LFPrick said:


> I want to find a way to maximize quality out of the t3 (crisp, clear pictures) learn to shoot at optimal angles/form and get proper lighting b/c it just looks horrible.


See above - tripod and strobes.  Until you get strobes and a tripod, consider shooting outdoors on sunny days in the shade, or in rooms well lit by sunlight.


----------



## LFPrick (May 7, 2012)

Any cheap but quality flash/strobe set ups you have in mind? Also what kind of settings should i lock in when using a tripod, whats a good height tripod for versatile use?
Thanks again


----------



## SCraig (May 7, 2012)

LFPrick said:


> Any cheap but quality flash/strobe set ups you have in mind? Also what kind of settings should i lock in when using a tripod, whats a good height tripod for versatile use?
> Thanks again


You should not "Lock In" ANY settings!  You MEASURE the light and use the settings necessary for a proper exposure.

You need to learn exposure, composition, and lighting badly.  Take a couple of classes or seminars, read some information on the internet.  Here is a good place to start.


----------



## Buckster (May 7, 2012)

LFPrick said:


> Any cheap but quality...


Not in photography.  Sorry.  Unless you have a whole different concept of "cheap" than most people, that is.


----------



## MTVision (May 7, 2012)

LFPrick said:
			
		

> Yes, these are the settings I locked in and use on M mode. I figured these settings would help since we don't use a tripod.
> So should we go away from the continuous lighting and use a flash set up?
> Also will be taking candid pictures during events, some dark like the one we did at a rave. There was also lots of smoke and the black lights bleed over onto our left side of the drop.
> I notice the camera has a hard time focusing on groups and sometimes individuals, idk if its b/c of the lighting or photographers movement.
> ...



Adorama, amazon, eBay, probably bh photo - places to get seamless. If you have a camera store locally they might sell it. 

Depending on the lens 1/50th is probably too slow for handheld shots. 

Crisp, clear pictures depends on exposure, lighting and focus. Slower shutter speeds like 1/50th will probably need a tripod to get crisp clear shots as well. 

Cameras can have a hard time focusing in low light. How are you focusing? Are you letting the camera choose the focal points or are you? Focus will probably be sharper when you choose a focus point and choose where to put it (like the eyes). The center point will probably lock focus easier in low light then the other ones. 

A speedlight and a fast lens (a lens that has an aperture like f/1.8 or 1.4 or 2.8) will help for candid photos in dim lighting. But there aren't really any shortcuts - you are going to have to learn about exposure, how to meter, how to use strobes/flashes, how to position them, composition, etc. 

I think someone already linked strobist.com. There are inexpensive flashes that you can set up off camera with umbrellas and soft boxes. Not sure about your camera but you might need to buy some triggers and receivers to control the flashes off camera. They will be more powerful then continuous lighting.


----------



## Dominantly (May 7, 2012)

Looks like a fun time. People usually have a blast in group photo sessions.


BUT you have a LOOOOOONG way to go before you should be charging anyone anything. You have serious lighitng issues, serious composition problems, and need to brush up a bit on how to set the camera up.
You need strobes and a bigger backdrop if you're going to shoot groups.


----------



## LFPrick (May 7, 2012)

SCraig said:


> LFPrick said:
> 
> 
> > Any cheap but quality flash/strobe set ups you have in mind? Also what kind of settings should i lock in when using a tripod, whats a good height tripod for versatile use?
> ...


I will try and do as much online research as I can and try and learn from other photographers. I don't have a light meter, plan on getting one eventually.



Buckster said:


> LFPrick said:
> 
> 
> > Any cheap but quality...
> ...



 I've noticed this, I will have to keep doing this kinda work until enough funds are saved.


MTVision said:


> LFPrick said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks, I will try some of those settings. I usually just get the cam held steady up to the viewer and focus manually with my hand.



> Looks like a fun time. People usually have a blast in group photo sessions.
> 
> BUT you have a LOOOOOONG way to go before you should be charging anyone  anything. You have serious lighitng issues, serious composition  problems, and need to brush up a bit on how to set the camera up.
> You need strobes and a bigger backdrop if you're going to shoot groups.


Its very fun and they enjoy it, I offer them a free proof online or they can pay for a cd or print on the spot. (materials cost money and the venue don't pay us for coming sometimes)


----------



## Bitter Jeweler (May 7, 2012)

Start a business, then learn the craft. *sigh*


The book, "Light, Science, Magic" may be helpful to you. It is geared towards product photography, but it will teach you a boat load about light and photography, the science behind it, and how to use it. It will help you figure this stuff out.


----------



## SCraig (May 7, 2012)

LFPrick said:


> I will try and do as much online research as I can and try and learn from other photographers. I don't have a light meter, plan on getting one eventually.


There is one built into your camera.  You only need to learn how to use it.  Some of the shots you originally posted might not have been as bad if whoever set up the shot knew how to use the camera.  The tools are there, you just need to learn to use them.  You could probably get much better shots with the lights you have (maybe not good but certainly better) if they were just used properly.  I don't know much about portrait lighting so I could easily be wrong, but from what I see of them in the photographs (and I should not even be able to see them!) they aren't being used properly.


----------



## Village Idiot (May 8, 2012)

Did you look at any of the links I posted?

The Zack Arias seamless tutorial setup is something the local strobist group did on location with three alien bees in a rented mansion and again in a rented warehouse. It's easy to set up and with something like the cheap strobes recommended will get you a long way.

If you learn about strobes, you'll learn that even with moderately powered strobes, ambient light from blacklights and other light bulb sources shouldn't be an issue.


----------



## 12sndsgood (May 8, 2012)

I would say get every book you can get your hands on at the library. read everyting you can on this site and the other sites listed, take a step back from trying to earn money and try to learn what you are doing before you just pigion hole yourself as a crappy business that has no skill or knowledge. And you need to get your buddy to do the same thing. And if he isnt willing to put the effort in i'd just part ways.


----------



## LFPrick (May 8, 2012)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> Start a business, then learn the craft. *sigh*
> 
> 
> The book, "Light, Science, Magic" may be helpful to you. It is geared towards product photography, but it will teach you a boat load about light and photography, the science behind it, and how to use it. It will help you figure this stuff out.


I know, it isn't the best way to get a start. I was coerced to jump right into this, the person who I work with thinks I have the learning curve of a super computer.
Thanks for the resource.



SCraig said:


> LFPrick said:
> 
> 
> > I will try and do as much online research as I can and try and learn from other photographers. I don't have a light meter, plan on getting one eventually.
> ...


 I skimmed over the manual enough to see how to use the setting for pics, didn't see a light meter but did notice a scale on the display that could have been part of that function. Will look for it specifically.


Village Idiot said:


> Did you look at any of the links I posted?
> 
> The Zack Arias seamless tutorial setup is something the local strobist group did on location with three alien bees in a rented mansion and again in a rented warehouse. It's easy to set up and with something like the cheap strobes recommended will get you a long way.
> 
> If you learn about strobes, you'll learn that even with moderately powered strobes, ambient light from blacklights and other light bulb sources shouldn't be an issue.


 I'm working on it, gonna try and read in my down time. I just finishes sending off my morning emails of some ads/posters/flyers to overly needy customers (calling me 20 times in an hour asking for something I already sent them 5 times.)
Super busy atm, will prolly have a couple hours to read tomorrow. I gotta edit, cut 10 pictures today, which takes me like 20-30 min per pic.


12sndsgood said:


> I would say get every book you can get your hands on at the library. read everyting you can on this site and the other sites listed, take a step back from trying to earn money and try to learn what you are doing before you just pigion hole yourself as a crappy business that has no skill or knowledge. And you need to get your buddy to do the same thing. And if he isnt willing to put the effort in i'd just part ways.


Yes, sounds good. My buddy is more of the salesman from hell, he is very people oriented. This is why he ends up taking most the pictures but his understanding of the concept to improve lighting and photography skills isn't up there. Mostly b/c we've gotten paid for a lot of work already, so it isn't on his priority list... I will try though, def read up and purchase the next batch of equipment we get. Will post up pics/work after that. We got a big shoot coming up, around 15-20 girls. I want perfection e.e

Funny thing is we started on a green backdrop for chroma key (my idea for quick cuts), with that lighting, lmao *sigh*
Took me so long to finish those jobs...


----------



## Buckster (May 8, 2012)

12sndsgood said:


> I would say get every book you can get your hands on at the library. read everyting you can on this site and the other sites listed


That would take ten years, assuming the OP has nothing else to do.

OP: Just get a couple of less expensive strobes like those that Village Idiot recommended on page one, then use them to go through the exercises at Strobist, get and keep handy a copy of Light, Science and Magic as a reference (read it, THEN keep it handy!), and you'll improve significantly enough to at least get on the right track within a month or two.


----------



## gsgary (May 8, 2012)

I'm working on it, gonna try and read in my down time. I just finishes sending off my morning emails of some ads/posters/flyers to overly needy customers (calling me 20 times in an hour asking for something I already sent them 5 times.)
Super busy atm, will prolly have a couple hours to read tomorrow. I gotta edit, cut 10 pictures today, which takes me like 20-30 min per pic.


If you are shooting at events your lighting needs to be spot on straight away because there is no time to edit
Here's one of mine from a dog event 2 lights and a reflector, photo was only sharpened to print on site so the owner got a mounted print 3 minutes after shoot


----------



## 2WheelPhoto (May 8, 2012)

I see you like shooting large women.  FYI, if you light them with a little contrast and shoot into their shadow side, they lose weight. Not that my suggestion would apply here, not quite enough light for shadows but enough to see some may appreciate help with their weight in photos =)


----------



## 12sndsgood (May 8, 2012)

Buckster said:


> 12sndsgood said:
> 
> 
> > I would say get every book you can get your hands on at the library. read everyting you can on this site and the other sites listed
> ...




Iv'e been tring to read a book every week, or every two weeks at the latest. it does take allot of time. but when your allready charging for your work and don't understand the camera or lighting, now's probalby the time to start.


----------



## jwbryson1 (May 8, 2012)




----------



## gsgary (May 8, 2012)

2WheelPhoto said:


> I see you like shooting large women.  FYI, if you light them with a little contrast and shoot into their shadow side, they lose weight. Not that my suggestion would apply here, not quite enough light for shadows but enough to see some may appreciate help with their weight in photos =)



You mean use short lighting


----------



## Mike_E (May 8, 2012)

One more straw for the camel:  along with the strobes, a flashmeter would speed up things greatly and add consistency.


----------

