# How?



## luvmyfamily (Feb 23, 2012)

I don't care if this sounds silly, but I would like to know.  So I was at WalMart today and as I was leaving, I passed the "portrait studio" on the way out, as I always do....saw their advertisement for a package for $7.99, 1 8x10, and some wallets or something like that.  How is it that they can hire any John Doe off the street that knows nothing about photography to photograph people?  Same with any portrait studio, JCPenny...etc.  Back in the day, I had my kids pics taken in a studio like that, and the person taking the photo's didn't change settings or seem to know anything about photography.  What are they doing?  I am in Walmart about 3 times a week because we're always out of something.  I thought about asking them, lol.....


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## analog.universe (Feb 23, 2012)

They shoot the same poses in the same lighting over and over again... it's like the McDonalds of photography.  You don't need to be a master chef to cook a McDonalds burger.

The problem is when folks don't know that it's McDonalds, and they expect a gourmet meal.. for $7.99


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## luvmyfamily (Feb 23, 2012)

I am seriously going to walk in there and ask the photographer how much they know about the exposure triangle  LOL, that still wouldn't seem to work, because you may be photographing a BIG man and then again a small baby...they must be shooting in auto.....


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## Bossy (Feb 23, 2012)

What?? What does the exposure triangle have to do with the size of your subject?​


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## jake337 (Feb 23, 2012)

luvmyfamily said:


> I am seriously going to walk in there and ask the photographer how much they know about the exposure triangle  LOL, that still wouldn't seem to work, because you may be photographing a BIG man and then again a small baby...they must be shooting in auto.....



I'm not sure if they are in auto or not.  I wouldn't think so though.  Everything is literally set up for them.  They tell the subjects were to sit, and pose according to some "procedure" pamphlet, then press the shutter button.


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## Josh220 (Feb 23, 2012)

It's WalMart. 'Nuff said.


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## jake337 (Feb 23, 2012)

Josh220 said:


> It's WalMart. 'Nuff said.



Don't forget about Craiglist, facebook, etc...


Although most of the craiglist, facebook, etc shooters would love to have Wallmart/JcPenny studio setup.


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## luvmyfamily (Feb 23, 2012)

Bossy said:


> What?? What does the exposure triangle have to do with the size of your subject?



I was just saying that to be a smartazz.  I've just gotta ask them, just because I wanna!!!


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## Bossy (Feb 23, 2012)

Honestly, I find it really immature to want to harass Walmart employees. I know thats forward, but the people who work there and other like studios, they make minimum wage, and aren't exactly paid to be a photo pro. Someone who actually knew lighting at some point told them where to put A B and C, set the settings up, and handed the employee a camera. You don't have to know much of anything for that situation, because it never changes. ​


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## luvmyfamily (Feb 23, 2012)

Bossy said:


> Honestly, I find it really immature to want to harass Walmart employees. I know thats forward, but the people who work there and other like studios, they make minimum wage, and aren't exactly paid to be a photo pro. Someone who actually knew lighting at some point told them where to put A B and C, set the settings up, and handed the employee a camera. You don't have to know much of anything for that situation, because it never changes.



I won't do it  Didn't realize they were paid so low.


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## MLeeK (Feb 23, 2012)

It's called a "Loss Leader." They take a loss on it to make a profit elsewhere.

The employee are trained in high pressure sales, not photography in any way. I have a student that I've been working with over about a year now who was a walmart photog. She thought "hey, this is easy!" and off on her own she went. When she got her camera she thought it was broken. Literally. 
They cannot change anything in the studio. It's set up for them  and they press the button. The only adjustment they can do to the camera is up and down and turning it a bit. That's it. Lighting is set up and they can move it a little, but that's it. 
They're taught a bit about posing-the Wal Mart way and told to SELL the other things!!!


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## Bossy (Feb 23, 2012)

luvmyfamily said:


> I won't do it  Didn't realize they were paid so low.


Yeah its really not on par with what we do  I always wanted to be one though when I was a teen, you certainly learn how to sell and people skills ​


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## Josh66 (Feb 23, 2012)

MLeeK said:


> It's called a "Loss Leader." They take a loss on it to make a profit elsewhere.


Exactly what I was going to say.  The portrait studio inside Walmart likely _loses_ money.  They're hoping that you're going to go shopping while you're waiting for your turn, waiting for your prints, etc.  Hell, even the film processing booth in Walmart is the same.  Are you going to spend 15 minutes driving home, fart around at home for 15 minutes, spend 15 more minutes driving back to the store, and then get your film ... or are you just going to shop around for an hour?  The original loss leader was razors.  They lose money selling the handle so cheap - but they make it back (and then some) selling the blades.

From what I hear, the photographers in those places aren't allowed to change the settings, even if they knew how.


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## jwbryson1 (Feb 23, 2012)

I was at Disney World 2 years ago and we had our photo taken in front of the Castle at night when it was all lit up.  A bit of a confusing lighting situation because you had to expose both for the Castle and you had to expose for the subjects (rear curtain sync).  So, I went up to the fauxtog after the shot to "talk shop" and asked them what settings they were using and what type of camera.  The guy shows me a sheet of paper with the detailed instructions on what settings to use (f/stop, shutter speed, WB, etc.)  He had NO idea about photography.  He was just the guy shooting the photos of the guests and was following directions given to him.


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## dxqcanada (Feb 23, 2012)

From my past experience (over 25 years ago) 
The actually formula is this:

The employees are NOT hired as "photographers".
They are hired as Sales people. Photographic knowledge is NOT required.


Camera exposure, focus and lighting are preset.
Backgrounds preset.
Poses preset.

Flyers are sent out attracting people to the $7.99 14 piece photo spread.
People come in to get their photo's taken.

Backdrop is pulled down, subjects placed in the preset poses/positions.
Button is pressed to take image.
The next set of images are taken.
THEN ... a different background is used and possibly different poses are set.
Images taken.

When the people come back they are presented the $7.99 package of images ... then to the side there are the EXTRA images that were taken with the different background/poses ... which tend to look a lot better than the images from the $7.99 package ... the Sales people are expected to sell the additional images to gain greater commission.
These images ranged in price from $3.00 to $10.00 each.
In most cases the people will buy at least one of the additional images.

Don't look down at the people who operate these Photo Studio's ... it keeps someone employed ... and I found that people were happy with the images they got (not with the pressure sales of additional photo's).


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## luvmyfamily (Feb 23, 2012)

Bossy said:


> luvmyfamily said:
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> > I won't do it  Didn't realize they were paid so low.
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I am licensed in Life/health Insurance so I learned a lot about sales.  I really just wanted to know about this as silly as it sounded and wasn't just talking about Wally World, also like JCPenny portrait studio because my oldest son who is now 17, when he was 4, they literally told him to sit on the "X."  I knew nothing about photography 12 years ago and always wondered how they did it and sell the packages so cheap.  Also, my youngest, age 10, had football pictures taken with his team.  His face was blurry.  I could have done a better job myself.


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## luvmyfamily (Feb 23, 2012)

O|||||||O said:


> MLeeK said:
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Interesting.  I didn't know this.  Is this the same for other portrait studios like JCpenney, Olan Mills...etc?  They want you to shop while waiting your turn.  I didn't do any shopping years ago, was more concerned with my kid crying, which my youngest did as a baby.


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## luvmyfamily (Feb 23, 2012)

jwbryson1 said:


> I was at Disney World 2 years ago and we had our photo taken in front of the Castle at night when it was all lit up. A bit of a confusing lighting situation because you had to expose both for the Castle and you had to expose for the subjects (rear curtain sync). So, I went up to the fauxtog after the shot to "talk shop" and asked them what settings they were using and what type of camera. The guy shows me a sheet of paper with the detailed instructions on what settings to use (f/stop, shutter speed, WB, etc.) He had NO idea about photography. He was just the guy shooting the photos of the guests and was following directions given to him.



Oh my......


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## Dominantly (Feb 23, 2012)

luvmyfamily said:


> I am seriously going to walk in there and ask the photographer how much they know about the exposure triangle  LOL, that still wouldn't seem to work, because you may be photographing a BIG man and then again a small baby...they must be shooting in auto.....


A bit cocky are we?


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## MTVision (Feb 23, 2012)

luvmyfamily said:
			
		

> I don't care if this sounds silly, but I would like to know.  So I was at WalMart today and as I was leaving, I passed the "portrait studio" on the way out, as I always do....saw their advertisement for a package for $7.99, 1 8x10, and some wallets or something like that.  How is it that they can hire any John Doe off the street that knows nothing about photography to photograph people?  Same with any portrait studio, JCPenny...etc.  Back in the day, I had my kids pics taken in a studio like that, and the person taking the photo's didn't change settings or seem to know anything about photography.  What are they doing?  I am in Walmart about 3 times a week because we're always out of something.  I thought about asking them, lol.....



My sister in law was the photographer at Wal-Mart for years - she has a DSLR that has never ever been taken off auto. At places like that the lighting doesn't change so the camera is usually set at what it needs to be!!


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## luvmyfamily (Feb 23, 2012)

Dominantly said:


> luvmyfamily said:
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> > I am seriously going to walk in there and ask the photographer how much they know about the exposure triangle LOL, that still wouldn't seem to work, because you may be photographing a BIG man and then again a small baby...they must be shooting in auto.....
> ...



Did you read all of this before blurting that out?  I said I felt bad, i didn't know they were paid so low.


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## luvmyfamily (Feb 23, 2012)

Dominantly said:


> luvmyfamily said:
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> > I am seriously going to walk in there and ask the photographer how much they know about the exposure triangle LOL, that still wouldn't seem to work, because you may be photographing a BIG man and then again a small baby...they must be shooting in auto.....
> ...



Are you a little high strung?


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## jaicatalano (Feb 23, 2012)

It's a plug and play situation. Anyone can push a button but it takes skill to get great quality out of your clients. That's what I and many people on here strive for.


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## luvmyfamily (Feb 23, 2012)

MTVision said:


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Thanks, I always wondered how they did it.  I didn't know the workers were paid so low and I thought they would have to know some photography or be trained on photography.  This is all new to me.  I should have known from years ago when they told my son to "sit on the "X."


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## Dominantly (Feb 23, 2012)

luvmyfamily said:


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Nah, I just found it interesting that someone who doesn't know **** about photography, is laughing at someone trying to earn a paycheck, and joked about asking them if they understood the "photo triangle" when they themselves probably just got the grasp of it.

That's all.


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## Josh66 (Feb 23, 2012)

luvmyfamily said:


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Why do you think you have to walk inside the store to get into the portrait studio?  How hard would it really be for them to just add another door on the outside?  And the film processing booth is typically right at the center of the store - optimizing your shopping opportunities.

They offer you a sweet deal - but they know that you're going to want more than that, and that you'd rather walk around and look at stuff than sit on a bench.  While you're doing all that walking around, most people will find at least one thing they 'need' before they leave.


If the studio is INSIDE a STORE - it's only there to get YOU inside the store.


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## luvmyfamily (Feb 23, 2012)

Dominantly said:


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That's all....great quote from The Devil wears Prada.....you know it all, yep, I'm a dumba$$..


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## luvmyfamily (Feb 23, 2012)

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This is why I asked  Now....I know


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## Rephargotohp (Feb 23, 2012)

Yeah,it's funny all the things said and all the things assumed.

I would have to agree, making fun of any one that gets up everyday and go to work and does their job...well, It's just not nice.

Then come the assumptions, It is NOT a loss leader for Walmart. In fact,  It's not even run by Walmart. It run by  Picture me, Whose parent company owns also, Sears Portrait Studios, Kandid Kiddies and Bella Picture; The Wedding Photography Chain.

I also think it's  funny that people assume that low price businesses don't make money. Obvious that people don't know how businesses works. They are able to be profitable ( and they are profitable) by doing high volume a keeping costs low They do all their printing in house on Dye Sub Machines and have mostly part time employees)...which is also how WalMart operates and they obviously make money...In Fact last year the company had sales of 450 Million dollars...yes million.

Then it's kinda funny that some people here would think that studio shoot could be done in "Aut0" If you really knew photography, you would know you can't shoot with studio lights in Auto.   But yes, the light levels from the strobes is adjusted and set, and the camera are set to the correct exposure for that lighting and left there.
So please don't look down your nose at people and assume things, Their per store sales are higher than most "pros' here.

Thank you and have a nice night...and BE nice


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## Josh66 (Feb 23, 2012)

Rephargotohp said:


> Their per store sales are higher than most "pros' here.


What's the 'photographers' cut?  $10 an hour?  What about benefits, 401k, etc...?  (Doubt it, since, like you said, it's mostly part-time employees, which means they don't qualify for benefits.)


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## BlackSheep (Feb 23, 2012)

luvmyfamily said:


> I am seriously going to walk in there and ask the photographer how much they know about the exposure triangle  LOL, that still wouldn't seem to work, because you may be photographing a BIG man and then again a small baby...they must be shooting in auto.....



I am not a traditionally religious person at all, but that old bible phrase "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" comes to mind when I read this thread.


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## MLeeK (Feb 23, 2012)

luvmyfamily said:


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Any of the ones in the stores also rely on the money broght into the store for profitability, however each of them is taught to SELL. Even WalMart. It's all about selling the FULL PRICE 8x10 to go with the loss leader package. They have a target for their sales and that's where it hits actual profit per shoot. 
Olan mills is all about high pressure sales. And the quality there has declined exponentially since the 70's. I have a beautiful Olan Mills album from when I was a baby through about age 10. 1970-1980. The infant images are gorgeous, the subsequent ones are all very nicely done. Everything I've seen in recent years from them is TERRIBLE in comparison. The loss is taken on that one image you get for the sitting fee. They live by the same theory we do: you can't have ONE image of little suzie when you are emotionally attached to them. You have to have them ALL and you know you NEED one for each of the 2 sets of grand parents, and one for each aunt, best friend... That's where the profit is.


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## MTVision (Feb 23, 2012)

O|||||||O said:
			
		

> What's the 'photographers' cut?  $10 an hour?  What about benefits, 401k, etc...?  (Doubt it, since, like you said, it's mostly part-time employees, which means they don't qualify for benefits.)



And at places like wal-Mart they limit the amount of full time employees. They would rather have a bunch of part-time employees then pay out benefits.


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## luvmyfamily (Feb 23, 2012)

BlackSheep said:


> luvmyfamily said:
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> > I am seriously going to walk in there and ask the photographer how much they know about the exposure triangle LOL, that still wouldn't seem to work, because you may be photographing a BIG man and then again a small baby...they must be shooting in auto.....
> ...


 Did anyone not see my laughing smiley face and that i was joking?  Then I said I wasn't going to seriously do it and that i didn't know they were underpaid?  This is another reason I don't like communication through typing such as text and this because you can't actually HEAR the person's voice and a lot of things get taken out of context.  You can't even joke around on here without someone taking it all wrong.  Can we all get on live skype or something?  So sorry if I offended anyone, i really didn't mean to.  I agree, you should do unto others as you would have them do unto you.


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## MTVision (Feb 23, 2012)

luvmyfamily said:
			
		

> Did anyone not see my laughing smiley face and that i was joking?  Then I said I wasn't going to seriously do it and that i didn't know they were underpaid?  This is another reason I don't like communication through typing such as text and this because you can't actually HEAR the person's voice and a lot of things get taken out of context.  You can't even joke around on here without someone taking it all wrong.  Can we all get on live skype or something?  So sorry if I offended anyone, i really didn't mean to.  I agree, you should do unto others as you would have them do unto you.



They aren't paid the best - but at least the have steady income which is probably better then most of the just starting out pros...


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## luvmyfamily (Feb 23, 2012)

MLeeK said:


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My husband is sitting beside me right now reading some of this and he just reminded me how I spent $178 nine years ago on baby photo's at JCPenney when I had a coupon for $12.99 because just as you said.....I fell for the marketing scheme and had to have them all.


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## dxqcanada (Feb 23, 2012)

MTVision said:


> And at places like wal-Mart they limit the amount of full time employees. They would rather have a bunch of part-time employees then pay out benefits.



It's because the majority of consumers demand the lowest price ... regardless of others that pay the price for it ... that's why so many shop at Walmarts. We are all selfish in many ways.
Why should you pay a higher price so that some other person earn a fair wage or that a small company can stay in business ... or even to a keep local business from moving overseas ?
Do we actually think about that when purchasing any product ? No.


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## BlackSheep (Feb 23, 2012)

I saw and understood your laughing smiley face, and I wasn't personally offended either. I just don't see how it's funny to make fun of someone doing their job, especially when (as you said) you don't know what their job actually is. Peace.


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## MTVision (Feb 23, 2012)

dxqcanada said:
			
		

> It's because the majority of consumers demand the lowest price ... regardless of others that pay the price for it ... that's why so many shop at Walmarts. We are all selfish in many ways.
> Why should you pay a higher price so that some other person earn a fair wage or that a small company can stay in business ... or even to a keep local business from moving overseas ?
> Do we actually think about that when purchasing any product ? No.



It's funny that you say that. My town has been fighting for years to keep wal-Mart out. The nearests wal-marts are at least an hour away. We do not really have any stores besides grocery stores, TJ Maxx and Staples but nobody wants wal-mart. All the mom and pop stores that have been here forever will be forced out of business.


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## dxqcanada (Feb 23, 2012)

luvmyfamily said:


> My husband is sitting beside me right now reading some of this and he just reminded me how I spent $178 nine years ago on baby photo's at JCPenney when I had a coupon for $12.99 because just as you said.....I fell for the marketing scheme and had to have them all.



It's not a marketing scheme. It's a sales scheme.
They do not prevent you from just purchasing the $12.99 package and walking away ... they just offered you the choice to purchase the rest of the $165.00 of photo's.


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## luvmyfamily (Feb 23, 2012)

BlackSheep said:


> I saw and understood your laughing smiley face, and I wasn't personally offended either. I just don't see how it's funny to make fun of someone doing their job, especially when (as you said) you don't know what their job actually is. Peace.



Peace   You are right, it's not funny and I really was just joking, guess it just got interpreted wrong.  I guess if some knew me in person, they would know that I have a heart of gold and would give my last $1 away if someone needed it.  People who know me well, know that....


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## mjhoward (Feb 23, 2012)

Rephargotohp said:


> Then come the assumptions, It is NOT a loss leader for Walmart. In fact,  It's not even run by Walmart. It run by  Picture me, Whose parent company owns also, Sears Portrait Studios, Kandid Kiddies and Bella Picture; The Wedding Photography Chain.



Just because it's run by another company other than Walmart doesn't mean that Walmart hasn't absorbed the loss instead.  If you're familiar with the relationship that Apple has with AT&T, you would know that the iPhones are sold at a loss, which is covered by AT&T, to get the service contracts.  Apple does not realize those loses... AT&T does.  I would imagine it is a similar situation between Walmart and Picture Me.


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## luvmyfamily (Feb 23, 2012)

dxqcanada said:


> luvmyfamily said:
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> > My husband is sitting beside me right now reading some of this and he just reminded me how I spent $178 nine years ago on baby photo's at JCPenney when I had a coupon for $12.99 because just as you said.....I fell for the marketing scheme and had to have them all.
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Ok, sales scheme.  They showed me all these great photos of my baby....how could I resist.


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## Bossy (Feb 23, 2012)

dxqcanada said:


> luvmyfamily said:
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> > My husband is sitting beside me right now reading some of this and he just reminded me how I spent $178 nine years ago on baby photo's at JCPenney when I had a coupon for $12.99 because just as you said.....I fell for the marketing scheme and had to have them all.
> ...



This is so not true! They completely count on the fact that you're not going to want pics of your new baby shredded. Not even kidding, I would've bought a **** ton of photos to prevent that at Picture People had my husband not made me see reason Haha. Olan mills does the same thing I believe. Its so wasteful. ​


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## blackrose89 (Feb 23, 2012)

I do think that luvmyfamily was a insensitive, but how come it's wrong to pick on people who are not even here, but it's ok that so many "noobs" get nailed to the wall if they God forbid create a thread on how to help start their business. How Come it's ok to openly mock "Facebook" or Craigslist "fauxtograpers" Wether theyre being premature or not, are they not still people trying to make a living like everyone else?


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## BlackSheep (Feb 23, 2012)

blackrose89 said:


> I do think that luvmyfamily was a insensitive, but how come it's wrong to pick on people who are not even here, but it's ok that so many "noobs" get nailed to the wall if they God forbid create a thread on how to help start their business. Wether theyre being premature or not, are they not still people trying to make a living like everyone else? Not speaking to those who gently tell them they need to learn more.



Say what? 
You think it's OK to "pick on people who are not even here"? I don't understand.

And for the record, I'm pretty sure that I have never nailed a noob to the wall. I'm very bad with hammers, and tend to hit my own thumb instead.


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## blackrose89 (Feb 23, 2012)

BlackSheep said:


> blackrose89 said:
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> > I do think that luvmyfamily was a insensitive, but how come it's wrong to pick on people who are not even here, but it's ok that so many "noobs" get nailed to the wall if they God forbid create a thread on how to help start their business. Wether theyre being premature or not, are they not still people trying to make a living like everyone else? Not speaking to those who gently tell them they need to learn more.
> ...


I just kinda find it kinda funny that people would give luvmyfamily a hard time for ragging on Walmart photographers when people constantly openly mock "facebook" and "Craigslist fauxtograpers" why is it acceptable to mock one set of people trying to make a living and not another? And this was in no way aimed at you. From what I've seen you've been nothing but nice


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## luvmyfamily (Feb 23, 2012)

BlackSheep said:


> blackrose89 said:
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> > I do think that luvmyfamily was a insensitive, but how come it's wrong to pick on people who are not even here, but it's ok that so many "noobs" get nailed to the wall if they God forbid create a thread on how to help start their business. Wether theyre being premature or not, are they not still people trying to make a living like everyone else? Not speaking to those who gently tell them they need to learn more.
> ...



For the last time, i would not really walk into a photo studio and ask that. I guess I should have said it instead of putting the joking smiley.  Really??


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## Dominantly (Feb 23, 2012)

My take on that whole noob thing.

I see it as being two fold. 
On one hand you have supply and demand, so if people are willing to pay you for your services (however poor they may be), then why the heck not. You may be an F grade photographer, but someone apparently likes your awesomeness.
On the other you have photographers who probably see it as a bit disrespectful to assume you can just come into their field, the day you pick up your DSLR, with your selective coloring PS skills, and encroach on their market. Probably with better pricing (after you've asked here what it should be) due to less overhead, and lack of experience. 
The pro will have to hope that the consumer will choose quality over price, but it doesn't always work out in their best interest.


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## Bossy (Feb 23, 2012)

blackrose89 said:


> I just kinda find it kinda funny that people would give luvmyfamily a hard time for ragging on Walmart photographers when people constantly openly mock "facebook" and "Craigslist fauxtograpers" why is it acceptable to mock one set of people trying to make a living and not another? And this was in no way aimed at you. From what I've seen you've been nothing but nice



You don't see a difference between someone trying to earn an honest, tax paying living and someone trying to rip both people and the government off?​


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## BlackSheep (Feb 23, 2012)

blackrose89 said:


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Thanks for the compliment.
Mocking "facebook" etc photographers is different from what you said in your last post though. What I got from your earlier sentence about "how come its wrong to pick on people *who are not even here*"  (bolding mine) - this reads as: "if they can't hear what I say, then I can say whatever snarky, mean or thoughtless thing I want to say". To me, that sort of attitude is thoughtless and can be very cruel. And, that is how I read the OP's posts, and therefore that is why I posted what I did. Normally I keep out of these types of threads, but this is something that pushes my ***** button.

That is very different from what you said about responding to new posters with new businesses, which by the way I sort of agree with.


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## blackrose89 (Feb 23, 2012)

Bossy said:


> blackrose89 said:
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> > I just kinda find it kinda funny that people would give luvmyfamily a hard time for ragging on Walmart photographers when people constantly openly mock "facebook" and "Craigslist fauxtograpers" why is it acceptable to mock one set of people trying to make a living and not another? And this was in no way aimed at you. From what I've seen you've been nothing but nice
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How many people have you actually personally known on Craigslist that are ripping the government off? Do you actually know anyone who has done this, or is an assumption you've come up with based on what you've read here? There is no way to know I they're paying taxes or not. And I'd 99% of bad photographers have no idea that they're bad. Someone who charges too much out of ignorance is not quite the same thing as ripping someone off.


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## dxqcanada (Feb 23, 2012)

blackrose89 said:


> I just kinda find it ironic that people would give luvmyfamily a hard time for ragging on Walmart photographers when people constantly openly mock "facebook" and "Craigslist fauxtograpers" why is it acceptable to mock one person trying make a living and not another? And this was in no way aimed at you. From what I've seen you've been nothing but nice



... because they (Walmart Photographer employees) do not advertise themselves as Professional Custom Portrait Photographers.
There are people in this forum that mock "facebook" and "Craiglist" professional photographers because of what they say they are providing to clients ... not because they are trying to make a living.


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## blackrose89 (Feb 23, 2012)

BlackSheep said:


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> > BlackSheep said:
> ...


Oh ok misunderstanding. When I said "people who aren't here" what I was trying to say was "why are people harping on luvmyfamily for bashing people who will never see it, but it's ok to bash people to their face here" I wasn't saying its ok to bash people behind their back. I was asking why it is seen as worse to mock someone who will never even see it, but acceptable on here  to bash someone who will. Basically how can you claim to have regard for someone who isn't even here if you mock people right in front of you.


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## MTVision (Feb 23, 2012)

blackrose89 said:
			
		

> Oh ok misunderstanding. When I said "people who aren't here" what I was trying to say was "why are people harping on luvmyfamily for bashing people who will never see it, but it's ok to bash people to their face here" I wasn't saying its ok to bash people behind their back. I was asking why it is seen as worse to mock someone who will never see it, but acceptable on here  to bash someone who will.



But she wasn't bashing someone behind their back. She said, in jest, that she was going to their work and mock them. That's why people said something.


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## Bossy (Feb 23, 2012)

blackrose89 said:


> How many people have you actually personally known on Craigslist that are ripping the government off? Do you actually know anyone who has done this, or is an assumption you've come up with based on what you've read here? There is no way to know I they're paying taxes or not. And I'd 99% of bad photographers have no idea that they're bad. Someone who charges too much out of ignorance is not quite the same thing as ripping someone off.



I can think of 20 off the top of my head. I go to school with them. I know for sure because we've had discussions about it. I didn't pull any "facts" from what I've seen here. To add to that, I've only see a few who come here who are legit and not trolling, and they either buck up and take the advice and move forward, or they fight it tooth and nail that someone is telling them that they can't do something they want to do. Same attitudes of my classmates, btw. 

OT kinda, are you drinking? There's a couple sentences in there that don't make sense. ​


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## mjhoward (Feb 23, 2012)

^ Yea they pop up on here all the time.  Just last week someone came on here that had just got their DSLR, posted advertisements on Facebook AND Craigslist (we were told this, we did not assume), were asking for help on their 'first gig' and they knew nothing about business or operating legitimately.  There words were family members and friends thought I should be a professional so I just started chargin'!  A lot of people also think that just because they claim their income on their federal tax return, they're all paid up.  Well this completely neglects state tax and is still a Felony if you've collected payments that would result in more than $300/yr in sales tax.


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## jowensphoto (Feb 24, 2012)

HIPPO'ing over this, just wanted to give my experience.

I've worked in two "studios" and quit both for the same reason: what they do is not photography. They are retail stores with sales goals. Everything is preset; lighting, settings, auto-edits on computer. The only things you will learn in such a place is posing and how to sell craptastic photos to unsuspecting guests.


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## photoentrepreneur (Feb 24, 2012)

Its the same around the world. I don't think they are loss leaders though. They are mostly set up for baby and toddler photos, cheap enough to draw you in. It then all about Up selling. Extra one for Grand Parents? Any Godfathers? Discount if you buy a set. 

Many people who are not photographer are happy if they can get a photograph that is better than they can take themselves. Its been going on for years and there is nothing wrong with it. See it as McDonalds for photography.


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## Joey_Ricard (Feb 24, 2012)

MLeeK said:


> It's called a "Loss Leader." They take a loss on it to make a profit elsewhere.
> 
> The employee are trained in high pressure sales, not photography in any way. I have a student that I've been working with over about a year now who was a walmart photog. She thought "hey, this is easy!" and off on her own she went. When she got her camera she thought it was broken. Literally.
> They cannot change anything in the studio. It's set up for them and they press the button. The only adjustment they can do to the camera is up and down and turning it a bit. That's it. Lighting is set up and they can move it a little, but that's it.
> They're taught a bit about posing-the Wal Mart way and told to SELL the other things!!!



I will concur with the parrot - I have relative working in this capacity same co. *Said relative knows absolutely nothing about photography and has no outside interest in photography but tells people she is a photographer*. Paid very low, always at battle with manager about schedule (lack there of). Store uses a Canon 40D, not sure what lens. No adjustments allowed to exposure, -  lighting never changes. They have a card that has mandatory settings to be checked before each session.


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## jowensphoto (Feb 24, 2012)

Joey_Ricard said:


> MLeeK said:
> 
> 
> > It's called a "Loss Leader." They take a loss on it to make a profit elsewhere.
> ...



This is exactly the experience I had! Although, we did change the lighting via clicking a mouse... they had cute names for the setups like "Profile" and "American Flag". I thought those were the actual names of lighting schemes until I got out of that place and started working with a high end private studio.

I do remember working at the other retail place and we did learn a little about lighting, but even that was minimal.


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