# My first paid photoshoot! HELP!



## DKC Photography (Jun 7, 2011)

Alright so Saturday I am doing a couple's engagement pictures and I really want them to come out PERFECT since they are paying me! I know the girl from high school and she is a sweetheart! We plan on going to the college that they met at and also around to some other nice places in the area. Any suggestions on time of day, poses, props and techniques?!  I am also doing some pics of her in her dress and wanted to incorporate an antique luggage set I have. HELP ME!!


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## Bitter Jeweler (Jun 7, 2011)

You are getting paid and don't know time of day, poses, props, or techniques?

Maybe you should rethink that?


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## CBURKE (Jun 7, 2011)

^ this guy is such great help!

I'm still new to this so I would not be much help. Good luck!


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## Bitter Jeweler (Jun 7, 2011)

CBURKE said:


> ^ this guy is such great help!
> 
> I'm still new to this so I would not be much help. Good luck!


 
Well, let me ask you something.
How willing are you to PAY somebody to do ANYTHING for you, if they don't even know the BASICS?
Time of day? Anytime! Well, only if you really know how to control light.
Poses? A little time googling engagement photos will yield so many more results than anyone can offer up here. Poses can often be context (location) sensitive, soooooo???
Props? Well that one is pretty wide open, ISN'T IT? 
Techniques? Really? Should I just suggest getting proper exposure?


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## gsgary (Jun 7, 2011)

CBURKE said:


> ^ this guy is such great help!
> 
> I'm still new to this so I would not be much help. Good luck!



I hope you are not being funny, Bitter is a star


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## gsgary (Jun 7, 2011)

Would you like us to come and shoot it for you ?


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## DKC Photography (Jun 7, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:
			
		

> You are getting paid and don't know time of day, poses, props, or techniques?
> 
> Maybe you should rethink that?



Well I've already got a time and place in mind but I am an amateur so I was just asking for a little help from those who have a little more experience. And yes I have the luggage as a prop just wondering if it's a good idea. Please don't be rude I'm just asking for some suggestions.


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## gsgary (Jun 7, 2011)

I don't think the luggage will much help unless she is going on holiday


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## Vtec44 (Jun 7, 2011)

gsgary said:


> Would you like us to come and shoot it for you ?


 
You crack me up...  

I'm new at this too but I totally agree, you need to at least have some ideas of what you need to do for your client before taking on the assignment.  To me it's easier to take pictures of people you know than of strangers.  Since you know the girl, you should talk to her what kind of "theme" or "look" they're going for then go from there.  Also, scout the location and test for lighting and shooting areas.  At least that's something a new guy like myself would do.


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## DKC Photography (Jun 7, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:
			
		

> Well, let me ask you something.
> How willing are you to PAY somebody to do ANYTHING for you, if they don't even know the BASICS?
> Time of day? Anytime! Well, only if you really know how to control light.
> Poses? A little time googling engagement photos will yield so many more results than anyone can offer up here. Poses can often be context (location) sensitive, soooooo???
> ...



Yeah I get what you are saying about paying someone and they not know the basics. I know the basics and I've had some successful photoshoots I've just been doing them for free because I'm a beginner. I'm finally feeling confident enough to do a paid shoot. I was mostly curious about the time of day, here in Texas the lighting can be pretty harsh so I was just wondering what time would the lighting be easiest to shoot in. Thanks for your help.
-Debbie


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## tirediron (Jun 7, 2011)

Actually, I think the luggage could work well... anything like a big, old, first-class steamer trunk?  You could have him opening the trunk to find her inside...  packing to run away.  Endless possibilities, BUT, as Bitter pointed out, you've been hired to do a PROFESSIONAL shoot (Make no mistake, you're being paid, therefore it is a PROFESSIONAL shoot and the client is entitled to PROFESSIONAL results) and you don't know what is an appropriate time of day?


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## tirediron (Jun 7, 2011)

DKC Photography said:


> Yeah I get what you are saying about paying someone and they not know the basics. I know the basics...


I'm going to respectfully disagree.  This is as basic as the exposure triangle and depth of field.  If you do not know about 'golden light' and the 'golden hour', I feel you're out of your depth.  Please search those terms for more information.  In short,  your two best times are [about] and hour after sunrise, and [about] and hour before sunset.  

What do you have for supplemental lighting equipment?  Do you at least have a few large reflectors?


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## DKC Photography (Jun 7, 2011)

tirediron said:
			
		

> I'm going to respectfully disagree.  This is as basic as the exposure triangle and depth of field.  If you do not know about 'golden light' and the 'golden hour', I feel you're out of your depth.  Please search those terms for more information.  In short,  your two best times are [about] and hour after sunrise, and [about] and hour before sunset.
> 
> What do you have for supplemental lighting equipment?  Do you at least have a few large reflectors?



Yes I have some reflectors but its hard to afford anything else right now (yay college for draining my bank account) and I haven't heard about golden hour, but thank you for letting me know about this stuff. Every suggestion helps!


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## Robin Usagani (Jun 7, 2011)

Set it to this and fire away


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## DKC Photography (Jun 7, 2011)

Schwettylens said:
			
		

> Set it to this and fire away



Haha thank you so much


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## CBURKE (Jun 7, 2011)

It was just a question he asked, if you didn't like the question, don't answer. 

One thing I can always count on in a forum, there's always "that guy" or two.
Sometime it's just easier to ask people that do it all the time, then Google a bunch of stuff that may or may not help. It someone he know that is willing to pay him. Hell, power to ya!


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## 2WheelPhoto (Jun 7, 2011)

Schwettylens said:


> Set it to this and fire away


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## cnutco (Jun 7, 2011)

Have you ever thought of shooting 2nd or 3rd camera at a wedding with a pro?


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## CBURKE (Jun 7, 2011)

I lol'ed on that hahahaha


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## DKC Photography (Jun 7, 2011)

CBURKE said:
			
		

> It was just a question he asked, if you didn't like the question, don't answer.
> 
> One thing I can always count on in a forum, there's always "that guy" or two.
> Sometime it's just easier to ask people that do it all the time, then Google a bunch of stuff that may or may not help. It someone he know that is willing to pay him. Hell, power to ya!



Thank you SO much! And yeah I agree plus I am a SHE not a HE  DKC Photography is Debra Kathleen Photography. But I am so appreciate of this comment I get my feelings hurt easily by rude comments haha if you knew me I'm a 19 year old college girl who just wants to share beauty through photography!


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## DKC Photography (Jun 7, 2011)

cnutco said:
			
		

> Have you ever thought of shooting 2nd or 3rd camera at a wedding with a pro?



I'd LOVE to shadow a pro! I never really thought about that either! I'll have to ask some of the locals around here if I could join them on a couple shoots!


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## CBURKE (Jun 7, 2011)

Opps sorry......Well good luck and just take an ass load of shots. Don't pass up anything, it's digital so if you don't like it, you can erase it!


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## Dao (Jun 7, 2011)

OP, please don't take that offensively.  Although it may sounds harsh from what Bitter, Gary and Tirediron said, but those are the stuff you should know.  Expectation changes when money is involved.   They just don't want you to come back next week ask for "Should I refund the money or What should I do now?  Hire a lawyer?"  Because it happens.


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## Hardrock (Jun 7, 2011)

Where at in Texas? The best time is going to be  early between 6:30 and 8:30 due to the heat (you dont want sweaty models) or late in the evening 7:00 to 9:00. Those are the best times for good light.  If those times dont work make sure you have a reflector/diffuser to block out the sun and harsh shadows. Also you will want to bring a flash it will also help with the shadows.


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## o hey tyler (Jun 7, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> You are getting paid and don't know time of day, poses, props, or techniques?
> 
> Maybe you should rethink that?


 
Truthquote(TM)

Brought to you by O Hey Tyler.


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## DKC Photography (Jun 7, 2011)

Hardrock said:
			
		

> Where at in Texas? The best time is going to be  early between 6:30 and 8:30 due to the heat (you dont want sweaty models) or late in the evening 7:00 to 9:00. Those are the best times for good light.  If those times dont work make sure you have a reflector/diffuser to block out the sun and harsh shadows. Also you will want to bring a flash it will also help with the shadows.



Abilene, TX. and thanks so much that's really the main thing I needed to know. Texas weather is so bipolar sometimes it's calling for 101° on Saturday and that's one of the coolest highs this week here!


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## jaykilgore (Jun 7, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> You are getting paid and don't know time of day, poses, props, or techniques?
> 
> Maybe you should rethink that?


 
I don't see Bitter as being...bitter...?

I see it as saying if you're taking a paid commission and don't know the very basic minimum to get going, maybe you shouldn't be taking paid assignments? Our industry is littered by MWAC who are moonlighting as "pro" taking work from qualified photogs. The downside is the client gets less than decent photos or worse yet, aren't educated and feel as though 25.00, 75.00, 150.00 or even 200.00 is enough to get full res images on a cd with copyright release.

I think it should be taken in context. At least I didn't read it as anything other than that.

And if you get your feelings easily hurt, this isn't the best business career lol


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## Hardrock (Jun 7, 2011)

If you are shooting at a place you can access any time I would go earlier than later. Summer hasn't fully hit us and the night time temps are still fairly low so the morning will probably be the best bet for you. Also you may want to bring an assistant to work the reflector or a tripod mounted reflector.  Good luck!


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## DKC Photography (Jun 7, 2011)

Hardrock said:
			
		

> If you are shooting at a place you can access any time I would go earlier than later. Summer hasn't fully hit us and the night time temps are still fairly low so the morning will probably be the best bet for you. Also you may want to bring an assistant to work the reflector or a tripod mounted reflector.  Good luck!



Thank you yeah I've got a friend that agreed to help! So I think I should be good on that part! Thanks for your help!


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## Bitter Jeweler (Jun 7, 2011)

CBURKE said:


> It was just a question he asked, if you didn't like the question, don't answer.
> 
> One thing I can always count on in a forum, there's always "that guy" or two.
> Sometime it's just easier to ask people that do it all the time, then Google a bunch of stuff that may or may not help. It someone he know that is willing to pay him. Hell, power to ya!


There is also always "that other guy", that thinks getting quick spoon fed answers is more valuable than doing honest to goodness research.

You didn't answer my questions.
Just answer this. Which will be MOST helpful, doing a google image search, and Flickr image search for "engagement photos", and yielding thousands of results for pose suggestions, or waiting for a few people here, to give a few poses verbally?


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## DKC Photography (Jun 7, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:
			
		

> There is also always "that other guy", that thinks getting quick spoon fed answers is more valuable than doing honest to goodness research.
> 
> You didn't answer my questions.
> Just answer this. Which will be MOST helpful, doing a google image search, and Flickr image search for "engagement photos", and yielding thousands of results for pose suggestions, or waiting for a few people here, to give a few poses verbally?



K


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## Aze (Jun 7, 2011)

Considering this is a paid gig and you are looking for help from qualified individuals in order to help you make a profit, I do believe consulting fees are in order.

No?


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## reedshots (Jun 7, 2011)

I&#8217;m late on this one (got busy but) I have to agree with Bitter&#8217;s first response on this one.  If you are doing a paying gig (friend or not) and you have to ask where, when and how to do it.  You may have a problem.  There is always the people that will give you good advice and bad advice and there is all ways the people that will give you the slap in the face with reality.

If you live in Texas and the shoot is in Texas can look outside (what time dose the sun come up and go down?)


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## CBURKE (Jun 7, 2011)

Hardrock said:


> Where at in Texas? The best time is going to be early between 6:30 and 8:30 due to the heat (you dont want sweaty models) or late in the evening 7:00 to 9:00. Those are the best times for good light. If those times dont work make sure you have a reflector/diffuser to block out the sun and harsh shadows. Also you will want to bring a flash it will also help with the shadows.



Now that was helpful! Good reply.


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## gsgary (Jun 7, 2011)

Best way to learn is from your mistakes


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## quickphotography78 (Jun 7, 2011)

I'm sure I'm wrong here but one comment I saw about people taking gigs on the side and asking on the cheap.  The reason I wanted to learn about photography is due to the prices, much cheaper for me to do my kids photos myself then hire someone.  I wish I could remember where I read it but someone asked if you are a professional shouldn't the pictures come out great with out editing them???  Knowing the price it costs to get prints done through a printing company I can't see charging what some do charge. I guess it depends on if you go full force in the beginning or slowly build.  That is my opinion though.

I wish I could of given you an answer on time but I am too new  and not enough time to read through everything for info.  I wish you luck I'm sure you will do a good job much easier with friends then strangers.


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## Aye-non Oh-non Imus (Jun 7, 2011)

CBURKE said:


> Hardrock said:
> 
> 
> > Where at in Texas? The best time is going to be early between 6:30 and 8:30 due to the heat (you dont want sweaty models) or late in the evening 7:00 to 9:00. Those are the best times for good light. If those times dont work make sure you have a reflector/diffuser to block out the sun and harsh shadows. Also you will want to bring a flash it will also help with the shadows.
> ...


Yes, but Bob said it best......
_"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows."_


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## MissCream (Jun 7, 2011)

quickphotography78 said:


> I'm sure I'm wrong here but one comment I saw about people taking gigs on the side and asking on the cheap.  The reason I wanted to learn about photography is due to the prices, much cheaper for me to do my kids photos myself then hire someone. * I wish I could remember where I read it but someone asked if you are a professional shouldn't the pictures come out great with out editing them??? * Knowing the price it costs to get prints done through a printing company I can't see charging what some do charge. I guess it depends on if you go full force in the beginning or slowly build.  That is my opinion though.
> 
> I wish I could of given you an answer on time but I am too new  and not enough time to read through everything for info.  I wish you luck I'm sure you will do a good job much easier with friends then strangers.


 
Can-o-worms.

And no. If you shoot RAW then you have to edit your pictures but since you are "too new" you probably do not know what that means and probably shouldn't be making a statement like that without having proper knowledge of what you are commenting on.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Jun 7, 2011)

quickphotography78 said:


> The reason I wanted to learn about photography is due to the prices, much cheaper for me to do my kids photos myself then hire someone.


 
...and by the time you are as good as all the expensive photographers, your kids will be all growed up!


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## jwbryson1 (Jun 7, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> You are getting paid and don't know time of day, poses, props, or techniques?
> 
> Maybe you should rethink that?


 

I am going to agree with Bitter on this one.  Going back and reading your original post, this is the impression that I have in my mind.  You have this great friend from high school (she's a "sweetheart") and you got yourself a camera and are really interested in taking some photos, and you've taken a bunch of them and darn if you don't think some of them are pretty good.  So this young sweetheart now has a fiance and wants her buddy to take some shots of them together and GET THIS, she's willing to pay you for them!

Not to sound harsh, but this does not seem to be a professional gig by any grasp of the imagination.  Your questions on timing, technique and props are concerning---and I would think they'd be concerning to anybody who is paying you for these shots.

If you are going to do this shoot and get paid for it, I'd be very wary of charging very much, if anything.  That's just my $0.02.


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## jaykilgore (Jun 7, 2011)

quickphotography78 said:


> I'm sure I'm wrong here but one comment I saw about people taking gigs on the side and asking on the cheap.  The reason I wanted to learn about photography is due to the prices, much cheaper for me to do my kids photos myself then hire someone.  I wish I could remember where I read it but someone asked if you are a professional shouldn't the pictures come out great with out editing them???  Knowing the price it costs to get prints done through a printing company I can't see charging what some do charge. I guess it depends on if you go full force in the beginning or slowly build.  That is my opinion though.
> 
> I wish I could of given you an answer on time but I am too new  and not enough time to read through everything for info.  I wish you luck I'm sure you will do a good job much easier with friends then strangers.


 
Now please don't take my post as being mean or targeting you or coming after you or being disrespectful or whatever. I'm just speaking to answer your comment is in direct relation to the thread I made.

To be totally honest, you just answered your own question. Let me break it down:



quickphotography78 said:


> The reason I wanted to learn about photography is due to the prices,  much cheaper for me to do my kids photos myself then hire someone.



You made a statement and contradicted in the same tone. You can't do what a professional photographer does, so you set out to learn how to do it. You don't want to pay for a professional to do his or her work, so you're going to do it on your own. Messing up many great images in an effort to get it later on down the line.

This attitude cracks me up! There are people who go into photography because they want to undercut a photographer. What and when did photography become that one profession any monkey with a camera can do? How many people walk into an E.R. and say "I've watched E.R. the entire 15 years it was on, I want to be an E.R. Doctor on the side. I went to the supply store and purchased scrubs. I know what a hematoma is, I can say "subdural empyema" as well as a acute myocardial infarction in thesub hemothorax. When do I start?_"

_


quickphotography78 said:


> Knowing the price it costs to get prints done through a printing company I can't see charging what some do charge.



Not a knock on you, but this proves why you're not a professional photographer. To best sum it up; Yes, a 8x10 print costs 2.11 to print, but the 10 years of professional experience and NOT GUESSING to get that image costs the other 75.00.

Like I said before, the above questions and comments you have are an insult to professionals and while you're still learning our craft, your opinions are laughable at best. If you keep at it for another 10-15 years, you'll look back at this comment and wish you can delete it.

Next time I need to call a plumber, I'm going to tell him he needs to do it free as I have a plunger too.


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## jaykilgore (Jun 7, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> quickphotography78 said:
> 
> 
> > The reason I wanted to learn about photography is due to the prices, much cheaper for me to do my kids photos myself then hire someone.
> ...


 
I'm really starting to like you! lol


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## jaykilgore (Jun 7, 2011)

This video is PERFECT for this thread:

[video]http://www.youtube.com/embed/R2a8TRSgzZY[/video]


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## KmH (Jun 7, 2011)

Pros sometimes hire location scouts when they have a shoot scheduled for a location they are not familiar with.

So you need to be the location scout this week by going to the college and looking around for where you want to shoot, so you will already know where and how you will set up on Saturday.

However, it sounds like you don't know what a good location would look like, and I haven't seen you mention what kind of supplimental lighting gear and grip you have available to use for the shoot.

Supplimental lighting gear need be no more than some simple reflectors and/or diffusers and grip is the tools and gizmos used to hold and direct the supplimental lighting gear.

Lighting on location is only different from lighting in the studio in that you have little to no control over the most powerful light being provided, sunlight.

For that reason I recommend you look for open shade as you scout locations. Open shade will make diffusers unnecessary, but will require the use of fill lighting, preferably strobed (flash), but reflected light can work.

When you use open shade, the background behind the subjects should also be completely shaded. Position your couple so they are just inside the edge of the sgade and facing towards the open sky, which will be your 'main light'. The use the reflectors for fill and shadow modeling.

If you don't have a reflector(s), go to Staples, Walmart or some similar store and get a white foamboard, 20x30 - 3 pack. Though not quite big enough, they will do, You will need someone to hold them and point them for you.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Jun 7, 2011)

quickphotography78 said:


> Knowing the price it costs to get prints done through a printing company I can't see charging what some do charge.


Then why are you looking to buy the absolute cheapest set of continuous lights you can find?




jaykilgore said:


> Next time I need to call a plumber, I'm going to tell him he needs to do it free as I have a plunger too.


To be fair, I redid most of the copper plumbing, and some PVC, in my duplex all by myself. But to be fair, I already have some sweet soldering skillz. 
Although, adding a new line and spigot on the side of the house was a little tricky. The burnt and melted siding isn't THAT noticable!



jaykilgore said:


> I'm really starting to like you! lol


Cool! That keeps me at about a 50/50 community love/hate ratio.


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## subscuck (Jun 7, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> Cool! That keeps me at about a 50/50 community love/hate ratio.



Hmmm, a little optimistic, I'd say.


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## flea77 (Jun 7, 2011)

Debbie,

Here is what gets me....

You said:





> ...since they are paying me! ...Any suggestions on time of day, poses, props and techniques?!


 
Then when told you should know these things if you are charging a client, you said...



> I am an amateur


 
Then you go on to explain...



> I know the basics and I've had some successful photoshoots I've just been doing them for free because I'm a beginner


 
But then you don't know what golden hour means, which is one of the most basic ideas for shooting outdoors. Here is where things get strange, your name is DKC Photography, implying a company (meaning you have a Texas sales tax permit, DBA certificate, bank account, insurance, etc etc etc), add to that you say you are charging a client, this bills you as a pro. Next you say you are an amateur and continue on saying you are a beginner. I'm confused.

If you are a pro (you have a company, have the tax permit, etc etc), which you should be (legally and ethically) if you are charging them, then you should know all of the answers to your question. If you are a beginner or amateur that is fine too, we will be happy to help you, but you should not be charging someone.

Look at it this way. You call an electrician to fix a problem with an outlet in your home. Once he arrives, you see him whip out his smartphone and ask a bunch of people on a forum how to diagnose and fix the problem. Then after that he does what the people on the forum tell him to, then hands you a bill. How would you feel?

I applaud you for your love of photography and desire to learn, although I have issue with you passing yourself off as a paid pro (any time you accept money, that is what you are doing) when you clearly do not have any of the skills/knowledge to tackle the job.

My suggestion is to continue doing free sessions until you have the answers to these questions and a lot more, then come show us your images so we can help you improve, then once you are sure you can do a shoot by yourself, without help, and deliver the goods consistantly, then branch out and get your DBA, your tax license, your bank account, your insurance, and go to it!

Allan


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## GeneralBenson (Jun 7, 2011)

Schwettylens said:


> Set it to this and fire away


 
Woman eats ice cream cone off of pregnant woman's belly? Man, could have totally used that setting the other day!


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## subscuck (Jun 7, 2011)

OP, what software are you using for post processing?


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## GeneralBenson (Jun 7, 2011)

Also, what kind of camera body and lenses do you have?


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## quickphotography78 (Jun 7, 2011)

Non of this is said in a bad tone, you are all right i'm not a professional.  I am doing this to take photos of my children how did you all start and become great photographers?? Please tell me I can't afford the best equipment as I am not going out and getting so far in debt that I can't send my kids to college.  Some people are willing to take the risk I'm not one of those people.  But at the same point if we don't try something how do we know that we are not good at it? How do you get better if you don't keep trying?  I was asking about prices do to all the stuff I read on here or have seen in the bigger city's which I live in a town of a population of just over 1000.  Should I take photos of people in the corn fields? (children of the corn) Sometimes it seems on here people are just trying to discourage other instead of help, I was just putting my two cents in but told this person I am new some of you have been on here a lot longer and way more experienced. I am def one of the people on here asking questions and I am sure she will do fine with her pics sometimes people just pick you to do there photos because they have faith and trust in you.  I do believe right or wrong we all have the option to post our thoughts on here, maybe I'm wrong


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## jritz (Jun 7, 2011)

GeneralBenson said:


> Also, what kind of camera body and lenses do you have?


My first guess would be the wonderful P&S, probably the greatest camera ever made.  They are so easy to use and you never have to post process a JPEG!


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## lyonsroar (Jun 7, 2011)

jaykilgore said:


> quickphotography78 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sure I'm wrong here but one comment I saw about people taking gigs on the side and asking on the cheap. The reason I wanted to learn about photography is due to the prices, much cheaper for me to do my kids photos myself then hire someone. I wish I could remember where I read it but someone asked if you are a professional shouldn't the pictures come out great with out editing them??? Knowing the price it costs to get prints done through a printing company I can't see charging what some do charge. I guess it depends on if you go full force in the beginning or slowly build. That is my opinion though.
> ...




I LIKE this new guy!


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## vtf (Jun 7, 2011)

jaykilgore said:


> Bitter Jeweler said:
> 
> 
> > quickphotography78 said:
> ...


 
It's the beard. Gets ya every time.


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## jaykilgore (Jun 7, 2011)

quickphotography78 said:


> Non of this is said in a bad tone, you are all right i'm not a professional.  I am doing this to take photos of my children how did you all start and become great photographers?? Please tell me I can't afford the best equipment as I am not going out and getting so far in debt that I can't send my kids to college.  Some people are willing to take the risk I'm not one of those people.  But at the same point if we don't try something how do we know that we are not good at it? How do you get better if you don't keep trying?  I was asking about prices do to all the stuff I read on here or have seen in the bigger city's which I live in a town of a population of just over 1000.  Should I take photos of people in the corn fields? (children of the corn) Sometimes it seems on here people are just trying to discourage other instead of help, I was just putting my two cents in but told this person I am new some of you have been on here a lot longer and way more experienced. I am def one of the people on here asking questions and I am sure she will do fine with her pics sometimes people just pick you to do there photos because they have faith and trust in you.  I do believe right or wrong we all have the option to post our thoughts on here, maybe I'm wrong


 
To be honest, you'll find more pros discouraging amateurs that show no real effort at improving. 

You want to discuss beginnings? I'll tell you mine;

I had a Minolta 300si. My dream camera was a Minolta maxum7 (both film cameras)
My main cam was a Hassey.

When the Canon digital rebel came out, the original, I was one of the first people in my city to purchase it. I wasn't ready to invest in the 10D cause I KNEW digital would NEVER replace film. 
I used that camera with kit lens for 5 years. In that process, I got 22 images published in 18 national magazines. I then moved to a 20d, 5D, and back to 40d. I have a 1ds mk III sitting in a closet somewhere.

It's not the equipment but the person. That being said, the person needs to know how to work their equipment. You have to be dedicated. A large problem with the photography world today is people expect to be told what to do. Sorry, I had to spend hundreds of thousands of hours learning, memberships and everything else, I just don't feel comfortable telling you everything I know when you have nothing invested in me.

Like I said before, Yes, an 8x10/5x7/4x5 all cost 75.00 in my studio. Does everyone who come to see me know it only cost 2.11 to get it printed? Yes! Do they realize that it has taken me well over 100k in memberships, workshops, countless hours learning photoshop, learning my "style"? Yes, and that's what they pay for.


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## quickphotography78 (Jun 7, 2011)

I can't wait till I'm great like all of you!!! Why isn't there an a** kissing smiley face.  Is this site here for people to learn I'm trying and I have taken the advice and put it to use.  It just kills me when I see photos that I have done myself and someone charges $85 bucks for a print.  This person works out of there home no studio.  If you have a studio you have all the bills to worry about to keep it going. Would it be nice to become a pro yes but maybe I just don't have that drive or passion.  I am not a wealthy person but I don't want walmart photos either.


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## vtf (Jun 7, 2011)

Mr. Kilgore, you do some mighty fine work.


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## subscuck (Jun 7, 2011)

quickphotography78 said:


> Sometimes it seems on here people are just trying to discourage other instead of help



The problem is some people come here with questions and don't like the answers they get. Sound familiar?


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## jaykilgore (Jun 7, 2011)

quickphotography78 said:


> It just kills me when I see photos that I have done myself and someone charges $85 bucks for a print.



I'd bet if we took one of my photos and one of yours and put them up against each other, there would be major differences.

I'd bet if you and I were forced to use the exact same equipment and subject, we'd get far different equipment.

I'm NOT saying I'm better than you, only that I've been doing this longer, so I see things differently.

A "professional" charges professional prices. I have six daughters, at each of the deliveries, I've watched the anesthesiology bill go from 1200.00 for the first one, to 4500.00 for the last one.

I have a studio but worked out of my home for years and my prices were the same. If you have a business you have to take EVERYTHING into consideration;

Lights to turn on your computer.
Photoshop CS5 (cost spread out over a year)
Equipment insurance for the year
Camera equipment
Products to show
Mortage/rent as you have to work out of somewhere
And many others.

And finally, you say you can't afford equipment, if you were charging prices that professionals charge, you'd be able to buy equipment! I purchased my first dslr and I've never purchased anything after. My clients purchase it.


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## jaykilgore (Jun 7, 2011)

vtf said:


> Mr. Kilgore, you do some mighty fine work.


 
I'm a bum.

It's the clients. They make me look competent...but thanks!~


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## quickphotography78 (Jun 7, 2011)

jaykilgore - well there you go I didn't know half of this stuff thanks for the info.  I know I have friends that are considered pros in this area and haven't done any of the classes that you have.  I'm not looking to have my photos put in mags or get awards so your photos must be wonderful.  Before I got my current camera I had a point n shoot which I hated, yes it isn't that camera that makes the photo great you are right.  I am just not in the best position to go out and spend the money for all of this until my kids are raised.  You remember the moms that were just that moms that is what I am doing.  With my husbands job I don't have the option to go out and work to make extra money to support myself to do photography.  Most jobs in my area are minimum wage nothing more so I would have to work 2 jobs to get me 5% of the way you are at.  There is no family help for us the daycare is more then what I could make in a paycheck.  I got to give it to the single moms or dads out there that do it all.  I will just take my camera and keep trying


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## jaykilgore (Jun 7, 2011)

Quick: We're not picking on you, just trying to educate you.

You're offensive to professional photographers with your comments. Majority of photogs wouldn't even talk to you and the op about this, so be glad some are taking the time to respond. 

My apologies if I've offended anyone, just trying to point ya in the right direction.


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## jaykilgore (Jun 7, 2011)

quickphotography78 said:


> jaykilgore - well there you go I didn't know half of this stuff thanks for the info.  I know I have friends that are considered pros in this area and haven't done any of the classes that you have.  I'm not looking to have my photos put in mags or get awards so your photos must be wonderful.  Before I got my current camera I had a point n shoot which I hated, yes it isn't that camera that makes the photo great you are right.  I am just not in the best position to go out and spend the money for all of this until my kids are raised.  You remember the moms that were just that moms that is what I am doing.  With my husbands job I don't have the option to go out and work to make extra money to support myself to do photography.  Most jobs in my area are minimum wage nothing more so I would have to work 2 jobs to get me 5% of the way you are at.  There is no family help for us the daycare is more then what I could make in a paycheck.  I got to give it to the single moms or dads out there that do it all.  I will just take my camera and keep trying


 
That is admirable, but take the advice that is here and USE It. As I said before, this is NOT the industry to try and work in if you're going to be sensitive. Hell, I have a total of 40+ images in everything from Cosmo to Playboy to Seventeen to Maxim and I STILL have people saying "Her elbows are pointy" lol. 

You have to charge money to make it. The problem you have with being cheap is people will always expect it.

As I said before, the first five years I used a digital rebel 300d and the images I got from it were pretty good.


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## RauschPhotography (Jun 7, 2011)

Jay, I already get the feeling that you're going to be great in this forum!


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## jaykilgore (Jun 7, 2011)

RauschPhotography said:


> Jay, I already get the feeling that you're going to be great in this forum!


 
Hehe thanks.

I'm from MN! In fact, I just left there! I went back to visit family and taught a quick workshop.

And for those who say they have limited equipment, I just posted a thread: http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/people-photography/246690-lets-kick-old-school.html


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## quickphotography78 (Jun 7, 2011)

I was just trying to figure out why it costs so much.  Since I am not a pro I don't put the time you all do into it.  I am not sure where to get info on photography I can get books but I want to get the right ones. I look for info online maybe I am just trying to take too much in at a time.  Yes, I am a sensitive person but the photos I have done to this point I have gotten great responses,but not on here.  I try not to take anything to harsh maybe my wording is coming off bad.   I can see my own flaws in the photos so I strive to be more careful or take more time to get a better shot. I am not charging since I still have lots to learn, should I charge even if it isn't great just due to my time?  I think when I feel comfortable I will charge and I know my shots are good enough to charge.  I have a friend helping me out so I plan on taking photos of her and I will post for all the make them better I have not posted a photo yet that didn't need work some better then others. My newborn ones are the only ones that didn't get to much bad info back on.


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## Aze (Jun 7, 2011)

quickphotography78 said:


> The reason I wanted to learn about photography is due to the prices, much cheaper for me to do my kids photos myself then hire someone.


 
I'm sure this will come off as offensive, but hear me out. This is the absolute WRONG reason to take up photography. Photography is demanding, it is expensive, it is a fickle mistress. Trust me I can tell you this because I'm going through it. I'm still new, I'll still be new for a long time. I know the struggle of getting that great image. But, you've got to go into it with the right attitude, and trying to get cheap pictures is not the right reason. Would you learn to be a painter because a van gogh is too expensive? Would you learn guitar because that beatles album costs just too much? No, you learn those things because you have a passion for doing it. 

You should want to be a photographer because you believe you can capture something. Something someone will look at and it will leave a lasting impression on them. Will it take time? Hell yes. I've played guitar for over 17 years, professionally for a time. But hell, it took a long time to get there, and I didn't pick it up because I didn't like music prices. I am willing to bet a large sum of money that every accomplished photographer here started with a passion for it, and most likely still have that passion. Photography is not like other skills, you don't just pick it up. I can tell you this because I'm currently eating meals of humble pie every time I take a picture.


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## jaykilgore (Jun 7, 2011)

quickphotography78 said:


> I was just trying to figure out why it costs so much.  Since I am not a pro I don't put the time you all do into it.  I am not sure where to get info on photography I can get books but I want to get the right ones. I look for info online maybe I am just trying to take too much in at a time.  Yes, I am a sensitive person but the photos I have done to this point I have gotten great responses,but not on here.  I try not to take anything to harsh maybe my wording is coming off bad.   I can see my own flaws in the photos so I strive to be more careful or take more time to get a better shot. I am not charging since I still have lots to learn, should I charge even if it isn't great just due to my time?  I think when I feel comfortable I will charge and I know my shots are good enough to charge.  I have a friend helping me out so I plan on taking photos of her and I will post for all the make them better I have not posted a photo yet that didn't need work some better then others. My newborn ones are the only ones that didn't get to much bad info back on.


 
IMHO, a photographer should ALWAYS charge, even if it's 20.00. As long as you make it clear to the client that you are charging for supplies, that's cool. 

Or another way to look at it;  You are taking time away from your children, you should be compensated for that.


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## quickphotography78 (Jun 7, 2011)

No offense.  I have always loved photography but at the same time no I don't like the prices.  Yes it will take time I just feel that when on here I am suppose to know it all and when I don't I feel like the dumb one.  I didn't realize how expensive it was but I have to work within what money I have.  I don't expect to be great for awhile just trying to get practice which I would prefer to work with people instead of objects or landscaping. I have a 2 cameras not top of the line 4 lenses 5 memory cards 3 batterys 1 speedlight I just got something today a reflector? my brain is stuck right now.  I just ordered a backdrop to try something new.   I am new to these cameras but try to purchase things as I get the money.  The lighting might just have to wait awhile.    I hope I named everything right.


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## Dao (Jun 7, 2011)

lyonsroar said:
			
		

> I LIKE this new guy!


 
I looked at his join date.  It seems like you are the new guy.


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## Aye-non Oh-non Imus (Jun 7, 2011)

Has this turned into the Quickphotography thread rather than the DKC thread?  Srsly.  Nice highjack.

Jay, you're the bomb.  (Is that even pertinent these days?)


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## Bitter Jeweler (Jun 7, 2011)

quickphotography78 said:


> I can't wait till I'm great like all of you!!!


Edit: This part of the message was a waste of time. 



> Why isn't there an a** kissing smiley face.


 Because it won't help you learn. 




> It just kills me when I see photos that I have done myself and someone charges $85 bucks for a print.


Are you really that good, honestly? Maybe they aren't as good as they think? Maybe you don't understand enough of the business, or craft, to be judging yet?



> Would it be nice to become a pro yes but *maybe I just don't have that drive or passion*. I am not a wealthy person but I don't want walmart photos either.


 
Maybe you should really analyze that bit in red! To me, it's a big tell.

Yeah, we all want our luxuries and not have to pay for them. Let me know when you figure out the secret to make that happen!


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## mjhoward (Jun 7, 2011)

DKC Photography said:


> I'm finally feeling confident enough to do a paid shoot.


 
If this were true, you wouldn't be asking any of the questions you're asking within a thread with 'HELP!' in the title.


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## Derrel (Jun 8, 2011)

Debbie,

I think the closest thing to your thread might be this infamous Sinead O'Connor performance on Saturday Night Live, 19 years ago. She was at the start of a VERY promising career. I want to wish you the best of luck in your upcoming shoot,and I will give you one piece of advice that has served me well; when you get people posed and into a shooting environment, take the time to get the exposure settings RIGHT...take a minute, or two minutes, and really make absolutely sure that the exposure and camera settings are RIGHT. Then, shoot the chit out of it. Then,move to the next location, and repeat the process. Taking the extra 30-90-120 seconds to make absolutely sure the settings are the right ones is very helpful.


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## quickphotography78 (Jun 8, 2011)

Hey I made a comment on here and so did others I wasn't trying to hijack anything.  Next time I will just not answer back when I feel I should.  And the comment about I can't wait till I'm as great as all of you I was being sarcastic and laughing.  It is hard to write and know how people are saying things. Sorry


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## quickphotography78 (Jun 8, 2011)

DCK Photography was just trying to see if she is to the point she should be charging most on here say to do the shoots for free.  I say if it is your friend and willing to pay let them pay.  Good luck!!!


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## MissCream (Jun 8, 2011)

quickphotography78 said:


> DCK Photography was just trying to see if she is to the point she should be charging most on here say to do the shoots for free.  I say if it is your friend and willing to pay let them pay.  Good luck!!!


 
All the more reason NOT to make them pay...


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