# HILARIOUS!



## AMOMENT

I may not be an obedient student in many eyes but that is because many of my teachers have opposing views/methods. Who are my supposed to listen to? Who is right? I have some people telling me to practice shooting at slower shutter speeds and some telling me not to. Others tell me to bump up my ISO while there are people sending me PM tutorials about how to use your flash properly instead of creating noise with your ISO. I have a crowd telling me to shoot at 5.6 and some telling me no, don't do that! LOL..my head is spinning! I have TOO much info that is conflicting. Is it so surprising that with something as foreign as photography is to me at this point and with so many different and negating pieces of advice, that I'm all over the place? Okay...(can of worms opened) who is really the expert on here? J/K! 

Guys, I'm just looking to enjoy and maybe be somewhat successful with photography as a hobby. I have a very peaceful life and if anyone knew me in real life, I think it would be so interesting because the INTERNET really distorts a person. (but why, that's my territory; psychology.) 

I feel like I'm applying everything but everything implies so many different opinions. I don't know which way is up. As I stated earlier, I have even got wonderful and helpful pm's about certain issues but one negates the other. 

Before you start pointing fingers at me, the newbie who is HUNGERING FOR KNOWLEDGE AND DIRECTION, perhaps you should look at one another "the experts" and how opposing your advice can be. I'm not saying you all need to be in agreement, this is not photography school. I am saying, don't be personally offended if I'm not applying your personal advice. I'm trying. LOL. I'm not ignoring anyone's advice. I am just trying to make sense of so much of it that is so conflicting. I feel like I can't even get into shooting still life because I just have no interest in it and therefore, my "eye" doesn't see anything potential in it. I may need to work on this for learning purporses. However, I do have a career already so if I end up being sucessful in photography, that is wonderful but not essential. I'm intrigued by it and find it quite theraputic!


For those of you who have tried to keep these threads civil; THANK YOU! For any of you who feel personally offended if I am not taking your advice well then, I'm sorry but it has become a question of who'se advice to take. 

I really do come in peace guys. I love photography and appreciate the guidance and time you have given me. If you feel like you need to lash out on me because I am not obeying well, go for it, but I don't think it is necessary. Instead of being so hostile, give me or ANYONE the benefit of the doubt. I have a lot of WONDERFUL people offering help but a lot of you have opinions that are so varying! 

So, Mleek; this is what I have learned in the past month.

(deep breath...and gooooo)

Slower shutter: more light in, more room for error in sharpeness

lower aperture numbers (aperture opened up wider) ...more light in/less DOF)

DOF: dependant upon aperture/focal length

metering: instead of seeing everything in color see it in shades of black/white/gray. Find your middle gray.

Af-C basically means auto focus but you choose your focal point and the camera then continues to keep that point in focus even if your subject moves. 

Af-S. (or servo) basically you lock in your focus and shoot. It does not continue to keep your subject in somewhat focus which is why if there is to be any movement, you need to recompose.

composition: don't cut off limbs, rule of thirds, don't fill your frame with your subject (at least all of the time because your margin for error is greater.) STEP BACK!

Pop up flash is harsh, use a diffuser or (according to some) forget the flash, bump up your ISO. According to others, use a speedlight and bounce or don't bounce the light. Some say keep ISO as low as possible and bring in other light. (hence my speedlight)

Shutter speeds: For a moving subject (even just a little movement) shoot no slower than 1/200 and maybe even 1/400. However some have told me to work on camera shake and try 1/60 and keep that ISO down. 

Pay attention to your historgrams. 

If you shoot in RAW than you can adjust more in pp. White balance has to do with temperature (obviousely).

Focus your AF point on the nearest eye of your subject. (when shooting a portrait; not written in stone) 

Unwritten rule; for every number of subjects you need to shoot, make sure the aperture is that +1. 



(head still spinning but slightly enjoying it now because I have had a glass of wine )

As a teacher, I personally find that belittling, chastising, and becoming angry at even the most frustrating of students, only slows the learning process even more. (but that's just in my experience)  I've found a lot more success with true CC and lots and lots of patience. If for some reason I don't think my student is a right fit for my classroom, well then we work with that. In this scenario, just don't respond.

P.S. I'm still astonished by the anger that is displayed in so many of the threads here. Isn't photography supposed to be about capturing life's beauty? It seems as if we ALL seem to forget the one common "thread" that links us together; our love for a shared art.


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## AMOMENT

Furthermore, I am simply saying this not because I feel the need to defend or define myself to an internet forum but merely to illustrate to everyone that these online forms of communication/connection can be so decieiving.  I have little to no personal conflict in my life if ever.  My time is spent with dear family and friends and if I'm not with them I am trying to volunteer in my community to help those in need.  I enjoy teaching and have loved my experiences with adolescent psychology and issues.  I have taken a break from it to be home with my 4 kids; 2 step and 2 birth.  Since I've been home with them I have taken a real liking to preserving these precious and irreplacable moments through photography.  Although I am only just about 29, I have lived a lot because I went to college when I was 16 and for other reasons that are beyond internet sharing.


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## mc1979

Oh boy, this is probably going to get ugly.


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## AMOMENT

Oh no, really?  again?  Can I not say/do anything right on here?  I give up!  Seriosuely....WHITE FLAG WAVED ...AGAIN! I soooo tried to lighten it up.


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## raphaelaaron

i'm pretty sure every forum is like this. if not with photography, then with some other hobby, vocation, etc.


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## mc1979

Maybe, maybe not? I'll say this, the masses have been more tolerant of you than some others I have seen... So you do have that in your favor


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## tirediron

AMOMENT said:


> ...Who are my supposed to listen to? Who is right? ...


All of them, none of them. There is no 'right' or 'wrong' in photography. There are certain ways, which are generally regarded as 'the best' or 'most appropriate' to achieve certain results, and there are certain definites, such as, "smaller apertures result in increased DoF", but at the end of the day, photography is almost exclusively an artistic pursuit, and no one can really teach art. Take all of the different suggestions, recommendations and bits of advice, and apply them. Decide what you like and what you don't. Use those you like, disregard the rest. Simple really.


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## Derrel

AMOMENT said:


> I may not be an obedient student in many eyes but that is because many of my teachers have opposing views/methods. Who are my supposed to listen to? Who is right? I have some people telling me to practice shooting at slower shutter speeds and some telling me not to. Others tell me to bump up my ISO while there are people sending me PM tutorials about how to use your flash properly instead of creating noise with your ISO. I have a crowd telling me to shoot at 5.6 and some telling me no, don't do that! LOL..my head is spinning! I have TOO much info that is conflicting. Is it so surprising that with something as foreign as photography is to me at this point and with so many different and negating pieces of advice, that I'm all over the place? Okay...(can of worms opened) who is really the expert on here? J/K!
> 
> Guys, I'm just looking to enjoy and maybe be somewhat successful with photography as a hobby. I have a very peaceful life and if anyone knew me in real life, I think it would be so interesting because the INTERNET really distorts a person. (but why, that's my territory; psychology.)
> 
> I feel like I'm applying everything but everything implies so many different opinions. I don't know which way is up. As I stated earlier, I have even got wonderful and helpful pm's about certain issues but one negates the other.
> 
> Before you start pointing fingers at me, the newbie who is HUNGERING FOR KNOWLEDGE AND DIRECTION, perhaps you should look at one another "the experts" and how opposing your advice can be. I'm not saying you all need to be in agreement, this is not photography school. I am saying, don't be personally offended if I'm not applying your personal advice. I'm trying. LOL. I'm not ignoring anyone's advice. I am just trying to make sense of so much of it that is so conflicting. I feel like I can't even get into shooting still life because I just have no interest in it and therefore, my "eye" doesn't see anything potential in it. I may need to work on this for learning purporses. However, I do have a career already so if I end up being sucessful in photography, that is wonderful but not essential. I'm intrigued by it and find it quite theraputic!
> 
> 
> For those of you who have tried to keep these threads civil; THANK YOU! For any of you who feel personally offended if I am not taking your advice well then, I'm sorry but it has become a question of who'se advice to take.
> 
> I really do come in peace guys. I love photography and appreciate the guidance and time you have given me. If you feel like you need to lash out on me because I am not obeying well, go for it, but I don't think it is necessary. Instead of being so hostile, give me or ANYONE the benefit of the doubt. I have a lot of WONDERFUL people offering help but a lot of you have opinions that are so varying!
> 
> So, Mleek; this is what I have learned in the past month.
> 
> (deep breath...and gooooo)
> 
> Slower shutter: more light in, more room for error in sharpeness
> 
> lower aperture numbers (aperture opened up wider) ...more light in/less DOF)
> 
> DOF: dependant upon aperture/focal length
> 
> metering: instead of seeing everything in color see it in shades of black/white/gray. Find your middle gray.
> 
> Af-C basically means auto focus but you choose your focal point and the camera then continues to keep that point in focus even if your subject moves.
> 
> Af-S. (or servo) basically you lock in your focus and shoot. It does not continue to keep your subject in somewhat focus which is why if there is to be any movement, you need to recompose.
> 
> composition: don't cut off limbs, rule of thirds, don't fill your frame with your subject (at least all of the time because your margin for error is greater.) STEP BACK!
> 
> Pop up flash is harsh, use a diffuser or (according to some) forget the flash, bump up your ISO. According to others, use a speedlight and bounce or don't bounce the light. Some say keep ISO as low as possible and bring in other light. (hence my speedlight)
> 
> Shutter speeds: For a moving subject (even just a little movement) shoot no slower than 1/200 and maybe even 1/400. However some have told me to work on camera shake and try 1/60 and keep that ISO down.
> 
> Pay attention to your historgrams.
> 
> If you shoot in RAW than you can adjust more in pp. White balance has to do with temperature (obviousely).
> 
> Focus your AF point on the nearest eye of your subject. (when shooting a portrait; not written in stone)
> 
> Unwritten rule; for every number of subjects you need to shoot, make sure the aperture is that +1.
> 
> 
> 
> (head still spinning but slightly enjoying it now because I have had a glass of wine )
> 
> As a teacher, I personally find that belittling, chastising, and becoming angry at even the most frustrating of students, only slows the learning process even more. (but that's just in my experience)  I've found a lot more success with true CC and lots and lots of patience. If for some reason I don't think my student is a right fit for my classroom, well then we work with that. In this scenario, just don't respond.
> 
> P.S. I'm still astonished by the anger that is displayed in so many of the threads here. Isn't photography supposed to be about capturing life's beauty? It seems as if we ALL seem to forget the one common "thread" that links us together; our love for a shared art.



Draaaaaa---muhhhhhhh.

Beginning a brand new post after a 6- or 7-page post of yours went awry...that's considered very bad form. Utterly,simply,unequivocally bad form.


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## AMOMENT

tirediron, that is what I thought.  I have been experimenting with so many different pieces of advice but I posted a few pics refelcting a specific piece of advice but negating another and all hell broke loose. lol.  I thought this was supposed to be fun and experimental.  I'm pretty sure no life is dependant upon my pictures right now.  It's confusing because I am self teaching and using so much of TPF for answers but it's difficult because all the advice is opposing.


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## AMOMENT

mc..really?  Oh my!  I have been a part of probably only 3 or 4 forums total in my life and I have never seen this.  Clearly I have to thicken my skin and or get more experience.  On the other hand, I barely have time for one forum so I think adding more forum experience is simply not in my future.  I much prefer real life realtinships but do APPRECAITE all the lovely help everyone has offered; given it wasn't the responses that insinuated that I was ignoring their advice.  I just don't know who'se to take first.  Maybe I will post ALL od my experimental photography shots trying out ALL the different advice and tips I've gotten so that no one feels as if I am slighting them.


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## tirediron

I suspect that as you learn more, you'll find in fact that in many (most?) cases the advice isn't actually contradictory, but right now some of it may seem so because you're not familiar enough with the finer points.


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## LightSpeed

AMOMENT said:


> I may not be an obedient student in many eyes but that is because many of my teachers have opposing views/methods. Who are my supposed to listen to? Who is right? I have some people telling me to practice shooting at slower shutter speeds and some telling me not to. Others tell me to bump up my ISO while there are people sending me PM tutorials about how to use your flash properly instead of creating noise with your ISO. I have a crowd telling me to shoot at 5.6 and some telling me no, don't do that! LOL..my head is spinning! I have TOO much info that is conflicting. Is it so surprising that with something as foreign as photography is to me at this point and with so many different and negating pieces of advice, that I'm all over the place? Okay...(can of worms opened) who is really the expert on here? J/K!
> 
> Guys, I'm just looking to enjoy and maybe be somewhat successful with photography as a hobby. I have a very peaceful life and if anyone knew me in real life, *I think it would be so interesting because the INTERNET really distorts a person. (but why, that's my territory; psychology.) *
> 
> I feel like I'm applying everything but everything implies so many different opinions. I don't know which way is up. As I stated earlier, I have even got wonderful and helpful pm's about certain issues but one negates the other.
> 
> Before you start pointing fingers at me, the newbie who is HUNGERING FOR KNOWLEDGE AND DIRECTION, perhaps you should look at one another "the experts" and how opposing your advice can be. I'm not saying you all need to be in agreement, this is not photography school. I am saying, don't be personally offended if I'm not applying your personal advice. I'm trying. LOL. I'm not ignoring anyone's advice. I am just trying to make sense of so much of it that is so conflicting. I feel like I can't even get into shooting still life because I just have no interest in it and therefore, my "eye" doesn't see anything potential in it. I may need to work on this for learning purporses. *However, I do have a career already *so if I end up being sucessful in photography, that is wonderful but not essential. I'm intrigued by it and find it quite theraputic!
> 
> 
> For those of you who have tried to keep these threads civil; THANK YOU! For any of you who feel personally offended if I am not taking your advice well then, I'm sorry but it has become a question of who'se advice to take.
> 
> I really do come in peace guys. I love photography and appreciate the guidance and time you have given me. If you feel like you need to lash out on me because I am not obeying well, go for it, but I don't think it is necessary. Instead of being so hostile, give me or ANYONE the benefit of the doubt. I have a lot of WONDERFUL people offering help but a lot of you have opinions that are so varying!
> 
> So, Mleek; this is what I have learned in the past month.
> 
> (deep breath...and gooooo)
> 
> Slower shutter: more light in, more room for error in sharpeness
> 
> lower aperture numbers (aperture opened up wider) ...more light in/less DOF)
> 
> DOF: dependant upon aperture/focal length
> 
> metering: instead of seeing everything in color see it in shades of black/white/gray. Find your middle gray.
> 
> Af-C basically means auto focus but you choose your focal point and the camera then continues to keep that point in focus even if your subject moves.
> 
> Af-S. (or servo) basically you lock in your focus and shoot. It does not continue to keep your subject in somewhat focus which is why if there is to be any movement, you need to recompose.
> 
> composition: don't cut off limbs, rule of thirds, don't fill your frame with your subject (at least all of the time because your margin for error is greater.) STEP BACK!
> 
> Pop up flash is harsh, use a diffuser or (according to some) forget the flash, bump up your ISO. According to others, use a speedlight and bounce or don't bounce the light. Some say keep ISO as low as possible and bring in other light. (hence my speedlight)
> 
> Shutter speeds: For a moving subject (even just a little movement) shoot no slower than 1/200 and maybe even 1/400. However some have told me to work on camera shake and try 1/60 and keep that ISO down.
> 
> Pay attention to your historgrams.
> 
> If you shoot in RAW than you can adjust more in pp. White balance has to do with temperature (obviousely).
> 
> Focus your AF point on the nearest eye of your subject. (when shooting a portrait; not written in stone)
> 
> Unwritten rule; for every number of subjects you need to shoot, make sure the aperture is that +1.
> 
> 
> 
> (head still spinning but slightly enjoying it now because I have had a glass of wine )
> 
> *As a teacher, I personally find that belittling, chastising, and becoming angry at even the most frustrating of students, only slows the learning process even more. *(but that's just in my experience)  I've found a lot more success with true CC and lots and lots of patience. If for some reason I don't think my student is a right fit for my classroom, well then we work with that. In this scenario, just don't respond.
> 
> *P.S. I'm still astonished by the anger that is displayed in so many of the threads here.* Isn't photography supposed to be about capturing life's beauty? It seems as if we ALL seem to forget the one common "thread" that links us together; our love for a shared art.



You continue to pound it upon everyones head , what a professional you are, how smart you are and whatnot.
You continue to proclaim you skills in psychology , yet don't see the error of your own thinking, but expect to tell everyone else the error in theirs.
This is why I laughed at you when you became self proclaimed Dr. Phil, in another thread. But I don't expect you to understand this.
I also don't think you'd make a very good psychologist. For the very reasons cited.
In short, you're full of yourself. No one is more pleased with you, than you. Lets all talk about you, because you ARE your favorite subject.
Can you not see this?

The problem with you , on this forum, is you expect people to tell you how.
They can't. They can only make suggestions. They are not there under the same light, the same condistions, with the same equipment, sitting in your living room , photographing your kids.
They do not see the same composition you see or the many ways it can be done or the obstacles that hinder it.
Now having said that, when the final image comes out THEY CAN tell you it sucks.
And they do. Believe me. If anyone knows, I do.

Let me appeal to your sense of psychology.
Are you going to let this stop you?
I didn't. But I don't expect you to be like me. But if you decide to go my direction, you won't let any of this stop you from achieving your goal.
You'll take what they say, come back with a stong image and shove it down their throats.

6 months from now, you'll laugh at all this if you continue with a camera.
By that time , you won't have to ask questions about exposure, ISO or depth of field.
You won't even have to do it their way. You can do it your own way.

There are many helpful people on this site. The moderation is good, or else I'd have been banned by now.
Even Tyler has some symblance of sportsmanship. As astonished I was to find this out.
As much as I dislike him and vice versa.

They are trying to help you. But I think they want you to try to help yourself.

And for the love of God, take your photography further than posting images of your kids.
Yeah thats nice and everything, and capturing the moments of your kids life is a good thing.
But over and over again?

I appeal to your sense of psychology.

And look...........I'm not trying to hurt your feelings. I'm just a little rough around the edges.
And I'm arrogant. Self centered. Handsome and modest. Even though it's very hard to be modest when you're as good looking as me. But alas modesty is my most redeeming feature. Can you tell? Oh and I'm rich too.
So you see.......I know what's wrong with me.
Do you know what's wrong with you?


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## COLTSFANATIC1

I take all advise with a grain of salt, try it if it seems to work for me then I use it, Remember in photographhy every situation requires its own set of settings, so some advise may work in one situation and not in another. what works for some may not work for others, Practice makes perfect, use whatever advice you get simply as a guid. Best of luck to you and dont get discouraged. Keep shooting


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## ConradM

AMOMENT said:


> tirediron, that is what I thought.  I have been experimenting with so many different pieces of advice but I posted a few pics refelcting a specific piece of advice but negating another and all hell broke loose. lol.  I thought this was supposed to be fun and experimental.  I'm pretty sure no life is dependant upon my pictures right now.  It's confusing because I am self teaching and using so much of TPF for answers but it's difficult because all the advice is opposing.



I kinda glanced through your other thread... It seems to me like you're seriously over-complicating everything and forgetting stuff you've read. Like not pointing a flash in your subjects face. Just an observation.

I'm somewhat opposite of you... I'm not terribly concerned with all the technical right now outside of the basics... I'd rather train myself to see things that people will respond too.


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## MTVision

AMOMENT said:
			
		

> mc..really?  Oh my!  I have been a part of probably only 3 or 4 forums total in my life and I have never seen this.  Clearly I have to thicken my skin and or get more experience.  On the other hand, I barely have time for one forum so I think adding more forum experience is simply not in my future.  I much prefer real life realtinships but do APPRECAITE all the lovely help everyone has offered; given it wasn't the responses that insinuated that I was ignoring their advice.  I just don't know who'se to take first.  Maybe I will post ALL od my experimental photography shots trying out ALL the different advice and tips I've gotten so that no one feels as if I am slighting them.



Nobody is getting upset because you didn't take their advice per se. Everybody is basically telling you the same thing. Like the shallow DOF thing - even if you are shooting at f/5.6 you DOF can still be really shallow - distance is what really matters.  At f/5.6 with your subject 5 feet away you are only going to have about half a foot of DOF which is pretty similar to the DOF you would have at f/1.8 and 10 feet away.  And noise really isn't that bad - its no worse then a portrait with the flash in the face.  Noise can be reduced somewhat in post but you can't get rid of the flash in the face look. Also by not exposing properly ISO 100 pictures will probably have more noise than a picture that was exposed properly at ISO 640. Raising your exposure in post will introduce noise so if you have noisy pictures at ISO 400 that's what it's from. 

 Everybody else was just saying take it slow - master one thing first then move onto the next. 
Kerbouchard gave you some fail safe settings to use with your speedlight to get good results but from my understanding you want to learn and maybe someday do it in a professional capacity. If so, then use those settings but you can also get really creative with lighting. Your photographer friend is great to have but don't take her word for everything either - most people that give you advice (MLeek for example) has been doing this for most of their lives. Everybody has their own opinions and their own way of doing things. 

Your last thread - the last 4 pages of bickering from today was not even aimed at you. We were all bickering amongst ourselves  ourselves.


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## MTVision

MTVision said:
			
		

> Nobody is getting upset because you didn't take their advice per se. Everybody is basically telling you the same thing. Like the shallow DOF thing - even if you are shooting at f/5.6 you DOF can still be really shallow - distance is what really matters.  At f/5.6 with your subject 5 feet away you are only going to have about half a foot of DOF which is pretty similar to the DOF you would have at f/1.8 and 10 feet away.  And noise really isn't that bad - its no worse then a portrait with the flash in the face.  Noise can be reduced somewhat in post but you can't get rid of the flash in the face look. Also by not exposing properly ISO 100 pictures will probably have more noise than a picture that was exposed properly at ISO 640. Raising your exposure in post will introduce noise so if you have noisy pictures at ISO 400 that's what it's from.
> 
> Everybody else was just saying take it slow - master one thing first then move onto the next.
> Kerbouchard gave you some fail safe settings to use with your speedlight to get good results but from my understanding you want to learn and maybe someday do it in a professional capacity. If so, then use those settings but you can also get really creative with lighting. Your photographer friend is great to have but don't take her word for everything either - most people that give you advice (MLeek for example) has been doing this for most of their lives. Everybody has their own opinions and their own way of doing things.
> 
> Your last thread - the last 4 pages of bickering from today was not even aimed at you. We were all bickering amongst ourselves  ourselves.




And honestly, you get more advice from more people then most do. Ignore the fighting or people who say rude things to you. Take everyones advice and find what works for you. Most people get 1-3 people that post on their thread to give
advice. Be thankful and just ignore the rest. And if you really don't like the fighting then use the search function. You will probably find more information that way.

The conflicting advice: think about the conflicting advice - whoever said to take pictures of moving children with 1/60 for a shutter speed obviously isn't giving the best advice. 1/50 is the minimum for handheld but that's probably not going to give your sharp in focus pictures when dealing with children. Doesn't it make sense that faster shutter speed for moving subjects would be better if you don't want blurring. I also don't know who or why would tell you not to shoot at f/5.6 since that's a decently sharp aperture. You are still going to have focus issues at that aperture if you are 2-5 feet from your subject. In one of your messages you asked about an aperture for shooting between 2 and 10ft - f/8 would be good at 5ft since you would have around a foot of DOF. Anything under 5 feet is going to be pretty shallow. So step back , stop filling the frame and see how your focus is. You can always crop it later to fill the frame if you want. You have an iPhone now so download a DOF app and play with it. Just remember to think about advice given - if it doesn't make sense wIth what you know to be true (fast ss stops action) then discard it.


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## enzodm

AMOMENT said:


> As a teacher, I personally find that belittling, chastising, and becoming angry at even the most frustrating of students, only slows the learning process even more. (but that's just in my experience)  I've found a lot more success with true CC and lots and lots of patience. If for some reason I don't think my student is a right fit for my classroom, well then we work with that. In this scenario, just don't respond.
> 
> P.S. I'm still astonished by the anger that is displayed in so many of the threads here. Isn't photography supposed to be about capturing life's beauty? It seems as if we ALL seem to forget the one common "thread" that links us together; our love for a shared art.



I commented on your threads only at the beginning, then I stopped, although inevitably I stumble upon your posts. I found myself looking at your pictures and be able only to think "poor baby, doing nothing while the mother plays". 1000 shots in a week. Uh. 

One thing: a forum is not a school. It's more like a pub. Try to imagine coming into a pub with always the same question to the same people... no one is here really to teach, it is only something that happens. However, I do not ask much here, but I'm mostly learning from other's threads. I quickly understood that questions are always the same, and by carefully looking at my pictures I can recognize the same mistakes others do. 
There exist photography schools where the relationship is clearer, if you need it for your mental scheme.  

Another one (your second post): Most people here knows that online communication is deceiving: apparently only you do not, perhaps helped by the fact you never had personal conflicts (or you never noticed). Here most people perhaps had a normal life, with unavoidable conflicts, and learned how to manage them. 

Another one: photography is not supposed to be about capturing life's beauty (and you if you looked at Masters work you would know this). However, trying to capture at least the beauty, or -better- the variety, helps in growing, for me. So, please, look around. It's a hobby for you too, so do your exercises if you must, but also try to have fun. It's not fun what your pictures communicate... just "I SO SO SO want this". Look at other's beginners pictures... as soon as there is a little of knowledge, you see some taste starting to appear, some eye growing. 

Ah, I'm a teacher too, but with much more experience than  you. Sometimes also teach to (graduate) adults; some give extreme satisfaction, some are full of good will, but...  let's say, superficially applied.


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## rexbobcat

mc1979 said:


> Oh boy, this is probably going to get ugly.


.


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## rexbobcat

Also; I think you are taking the 'rules' a little too literally. They aren't rules as much as they are guidelines. If I can get a decent image through unconventional means, then it's honestly nobody's business to say anything to me, because I got the image I wanted regardless of my methods.

Also; I think the reason people are becoming agitated with you is because you seem to want information handed to you like people who are educated in this subject owe it to you. When I began taking photos (and I am still learning A LOT, I just opened up a whole new dimension that I know nothing about), I did all of my studying using impersonal resources, such as books written by Nat. Geographic, and LIFE magazine. Respectable sources that give much unbiased, technical information, as well as information about how all of the greats achieved their...well...greatness (in their photos at least).

As on person said above me; a forum is not a school. It is a place for connecting and 'socializing.' Most of the learning is your responsibility, and although the people here want to help, most don't like walking a budding photographer through the baby-steps without any noticeable effort on your end.

And even if you say that you're trying...if your effort doesn't manifest itself in your images, then total strangers on the internet will probably give up on you.

Jus' sayin'


----------



## Pau1

AMOMENT said:


> (head still spinning but slightly enjoying it now because I have had a glass of wine )


TMI


----------



## SCraig

tirediron said:


> AMOMENT said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Who are my supposed to listen to? Who is right? ...
> 
> 
> 
> All of them, none of them. There is no 'right' or 'wrong' in photography. There are certain ways, which are generally regarded as 'the best' or 'most appropriate' to achieve certain results, and there are certain definites, such as, "smaller apertures result in increased DoF", but at the end of the day, photography is almost exclusively an artistic pursuit, and no one can really teach art. Take all of the different suggestions, recommendations and bits of advice, and apply them. Decide what you like and what you don't. Use those you like, disregard the rest. Simple really.
Click to expand...


I read most of the first post and I read this one and so far this is about the best response I've seen.  There are no absolutes, there are only shades of gray.  There are no rules, only recommendations.  Solutions to photographic problems are based on experience, in knowing when to say "That didn't work, I'll try something else" and knowing what else there is to try.

You said, I think, that you are a teacher of psychology (I could be wrong, moot point).  Pick one psychological disorder.  It doesn't matter what, any one will do.  Now answer this simple question: What is the one and only guaranteed-always-correct cause for that disorder?  It can't be answered that way.  There is seldom one black-and-white answer.  Photography is the same.

All of the advice you have been given is based in fact.  They are solutions that each per person has tried and had success with.  And the solutions to the problems are what come with experience.  They are not included in the box with your camera, they cannot be gained from an internet forum, they can ONLY be obtained through experience.  Through taking a photograph, LOOKING at it critically by yourself, and decided what worked and what didn't.

Do you know how to tell whether or not an out-of-focus shot was caused by motion blur, by missing the focus point, or by depth of field issues?  I don't either much of the time and I've been shooting for over 45 YEARS.  If one goes bad I try changing ONE setting to see if it makes things better or worse.  If it doesn't then I know that setting wasn't what caused the problem so I go back and try something else.

Of course, over the years, I and every other photographer have developed their own little bag of tricks to know what works FOR THEM and what doesn't.  Of course there are basic rules of exposure that we all have to learn and live within.  Of course there are some things that will not work no matter how badly you need them to.  Photography is not a game of absolutes it is a game of compromises.  We all went through the frustration of learning the basics but once LEARNED we all managed to find ways to work within the limitations of our equipment.

THAT is what everyone has been trying to tell you.  You appear to be hung up on this focus thing and with modern equipment that is probably the LAST thing you need to worry about.  Your camera WILL give you a solid focus lock 90% of the time.  It WILL give you the best focus possible AT THE POINT YOU CHOOSE.  That's a given, forget about it.  Move on to solving the next issue.

When you are ready for help there are people here, and on every other photography forum I've been on, who will gladly provide that help.  The problem is that WE do not know the exact circumstances of a shot, WE can only see the end result.  YOU are the one who was there, who pressed the shutter release, and know exactly what limitations you were working within.  Some of the responsibility for a poor shot has to go to the photographer and not everyone who is trying to help.


----------



## GeorgieGirl

I think somehting is off. I think too much dialog posting and an obscession about the same things over and over. I think it might be a good idea to take a day or two or three off and focus on somehting else in your life besides TPF. Come back in a few days fresh and centered and work on only one aspect of what you have selected to improve on and build on it.


----------



## Dillard

bottom line...this is the internet, everyone hides behind their own name and can try to be there person they want. When it comes to advice, take it, leave it, experiment. You don't have to listen to anyones advice. Take pictures, ask for critique, practice more. You will NEVER get complete satisfaction from everyone, but hey thats life. It goes on


----------



## Robin Usagani

Just shoot and judge it your self.  It is digital after all.  Memory is cheap and you can see the preview on your screen!  You need to build your taste level high.  If you have a high standard, your shots will get better.  I swear by it.  

Also, you need to ASK more questions.  Dont ask general questions.  Ask more specific questions.  If you ask general CC or general questions, you get gazzilions answers.


----------



## thereyougo!

Two things: don't take things here so personally. I do find it a little more firm here than elsewhere but try not to take it personally. Secondly, try out all the advice. You need to find out what YOU like. Not much in photography is truly objective. You need to find your likes and dislikes that's how you pick up your own style. Don't take so called rules literally all the time. There are times when they need to be challenged


----------



## Bitter Jeweler

This has been the best episode this season! 

I can't wait for the season finale!


----------



## ababysean

oh you mean photography is actually hard and you can't just buy the best DSLR and flash you can afford (or can't) and be a pro? well damn....

I did try to help you on the other post.  It is important to learn photo mumbo jumbo, if you go out and just shoot what are you learning?  Your pictures in the other thread were bad. I didn't say so in that thread because I wanted you to read my post without being defensive.

I would say whoever told you to shoot at 1/60 on a child is nuts or never shoots children... UNLESS you are using flash correctly.

I can't tell if those pictures are in focus because they are so blown out and horrid I can't get past that....  

did you even try my settings I suggested?

I want to help because I too and still learning and I know how much work it is.  I do think you want a simple answer and when that simple answer doesnt get you positive results you get defensive, understandable.  No one is saying take every bit of advice.

Your first mistake is practicing on your toddler, inside, at night, in a house. wrong.  get one of her stuffed animals or little people toys and use that non moving target to play around with the settings....

off my soapbox, gonna go feed my youngins. have a good day.


----------



## rateeg

i am very lazy to read =p


----------



## cgipson1

No matter what your ""successful"" Texas friend  tells you, there is a good bit of basic science (physics of light) that you have to learn, before you can get decent images. Then you can start on the "ART" part of things....

And stop flashing your "credentials"... as we have yet to see any proof of genius on your part. They mean nothing in this particular instance. 
*
Shoot one shot.. examine it.. figure out what you want to change (whats wrong with it?).. determine how to make that change ( we are happy to help with this!)... change it.. shoot again... verify that the change took place...  if not, why?* 

If the change is good, hard code that change into your learning process, so  you don't make the same mistake over and over!  shooting 1000 shots in the wrong way, without reflection.. will get you nowhere!


----------



## Boxhousev

It's funny ababysean...you just proved her point. And to agree with her.  nothing annoys me more personally, then pretentious jerks that give ur opinions opposed to being helpful. It's funny that my first comment to my husband was this forum is one of the meanest I have ever seen. Especially in the "newbie" section. If we are so horrible, post in the professional gallery!  Isn't this the place where I should gain knowledge and be incouraged to continue my craft. I read these posts and feel terrible how cruel others can be. Some of you don't apply you provide helpful information with a compliment. You give actual constructive criticism which is appreciated. Others think they are some sort of "gods gift to photography" and are nothing more then cyber bullies. Just remember you too were new...  I thought by joining I would gain a community, not hostility and judgment. Just my two cents.


----------



## ababysean

Here is the thing.  I have learned so much from these jerks, I just started shooting and yes, the assholes sometimes were mean and/or rude and sometimes both, but guess whose advice I remembered most while out practicing.  The advice that sort of insulted me and rubbed me the wrong way!  I don't think I was rude or mean at all in her first post....  I do however know there are some punks here that are just here to ruffle feathers, but there are also people here that really love to help.  Ignore the dummies, I learned fast to NOT REPLY TO THOSE I DO NOT LIKE!  just read what they have to say, think about it, ignore it, move on.  

I have learned more from this forum I think then any other forum out there.  Another good place to start is ilovephotography.com  They are more women centered, not so much into gear, and have a more softer approach at critique.  There is still drama from time to time, but in general it is a lot "nicer" there.  I have found men and women are so different in forums, men are way more blunt, will tell you straight up, you suck.  haha  but then after you get past their insults they like to "show off" their knowledge and start spewing really good advice and technique and information.  Some of the best CC and advice I've gotten have been from the rudest people here, I like to ruffle their feathers because I know they will get "smart" and try to show off and then spew out generally great info!

Anyways, no one is making her, you, your husband stay here.  If this forum does not fit your needs, then try another one.  

I myself like harsh CC because I want to improve and getting CC from people who just say oh what a cute kid I'm sure the mom will love it.... yea that doesnt help me get better.  I am charging for my work now, so I feel an obligation to produce images that are better then good....  better then "what a cute kid, mom will love it"  I want to be technically spot on, and emotionally connected all at the same time.


----------



## PhotoTish

Have you heard the expression "can't see the wood for the trees"?  If not, it means someone is unable to  understand what is important in a situation because they are giving too  much attention to details.  I don't mean this unkindly, it happens to us all at one time or another.  

There is a lot of banter which goes on here - my impression is that it is seldom meant to offend and is often humorous - if you could look beyond that you would see that there is also a wealth of information and guidance which is being passed your way - for free!  

I have learnt loads from this site.  Just about every question I have had, I have found the answer here, without even asking because someone has asked it before and it has been answered (sometimes several times!)

Take all the advice you are given.  Try it out.  Keep what works for you and discard what doesn't.  Above all, don't take it too seriously.  It is meant to be fun :thumbup:


----------



## Bitter Jeweler

I've seen bridges with less tension.


----------



## eUgalde13

Oh god, another episode of The Real Housewives of The Photo Forum perhaps the Jersey Shore, correction, The Photo Forum Shore.

Sent from my iPhone using PhotographyForum app


----------



## cgipson1

RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!... it's an MWAC!     lol!


----------



## GooniesNeverSayDie11

I am not even going to jump into the drama debate, but I will give my opinion on your confusion due to contradictions. 

1) There ARE occasional contradictions. This is not only due to multiple ways to achieve the same things depending on taste, but also due to there simply being people who think they know more than they do. As a result, they give out poor information.

2) You are going to be confused if you expect everyone to be your teacher here. I think that everyone here likes to help, but we are in no way shape or form your "photography teachers". You need to be doing research and learning on your own, away from the internet. Read a book, or seek out local photo groups. Some contradiction and confusion could stem simply from different scenarios. Often times you will get told to do one thing in a given situation and then in another, told to do something different. This may SEEM like a contradiction to you because you do not understand the differences in the situations. They may, on face value, seem the same to you. Perhaps we do not explain that, but not all of us know of all of your previous posts. Also, not all of us have the time to write a 500 page photography book in order to explain every nuance.


So with those two things said, you need to learn more on your own and find a way to filter certain information. For instance, if you look at some people's level of work, or trustworthy-ness of previous advice, you should be able to give more weight to their opinions than some unknown posters contradicting advice. At the end of the day, its the internet. You are getting invaluable advice in most cases, that most people would have to pay lots of money on schooling, books, and/or apprenticing to learn.


----------



## analog.universe

I just want to say that the "need" to learn away from the internet is overstated I think.  It does of course depend on learning style, but I think that if you direct your attention in the right direction, the internet contains all the information you'll need.  People are often pointed toward certain books or advised to join photographer groups, etc...  That stuff is effective for certain people, but it's not necessary for everyone.  Information moves a lot differently now than it did 5 or 10 years ago, and for some people (like myself), the new method of exchange is just as effective.


----------



## Futurelight

Tirediron is correct and, as an example I am going to use THE man, Bruce Lee. This guy studied several martial arts until he was exceptional in all of them. Once he had trained in them and become master, he took all of them, filtered out the un-necassary, took all the best parts and created his own style by incorporating all the good of each. Thus creating his own style, Jeet Kune Do. This style of Kung-foo is widely regarded as the most effective and sought after style on the planet now. 

My point is, listen to your lecturers, listen to your peers, even listen to the drunken tramp on the street corner. Take all the information you are given, sift out the crap and be the photographer you choose to be.

If you choose to be great, you will be! Recognised or un-recognised. 

As all the information, all the opinions and all the teachings are there for you to use, USE them and better your own style. 

I hope this helps


----------



## SCraig

analog.universe said:


> I just want to say that the "need" to learn away from the internet is overstated I think.  It does of course depend on learning style, but I think that if you direct your attention in the right direction, the internet contains all the information you'll need.  People are often pointed toward certain books or advised to join photographer groups, etc...  That stuff is effective for certain people, but it's not necessary for everyone.  Information moves a lot differently now than it did 5 or 10 years ago, and for some people (like myself), the new method of exchange is just as effective.


I'm not sure I agree with that, yet I'm not sure I disagree either.  The information available on the internet is invaluable, that goes without saying.  There is so much information available that virtually any question can be answered in just a few minutes.

On the other hand I grew up in the film days.  In the beginning I had a mentor, of sorts, who owned the camera shop I worked in after school.  He died a few years later and I was pretty much left on my own to learn from my mistakes.  Making mistakes and then LOOKING at those mistakes, on my own, helped me immensely.  I learned to truly LOOK at a bad exposure and figure out why it was bad and what I could do to make it better.  Today it's much easier to just jump on an internet forum and ask "What's wrong with this" but when you do not have that advantage, when you have to look and learn on your own, the lessons stick.

So, as I said, I'm not sure I agree but then I'm not sure I disagree either.


----------



## analog.universe

SCraig said:


> analog.universe said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just want to say that the "need" to learn away from the internet is overstated I think.  It does of course depend on learning style, but I think that if you direct your attention in the right direction, the internet contains all the information you'll need.  People are often pointed toward certain books or advised to join photographer groups, etc...  That stuff is effective for certain people, but it's not necessary for everyone.  Information moves a lot differently now than it did 5 or 10 years ago, and for some people (like myself), the new method of exchange is just as effective.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure I agree with that, yet I'm not sure I disagree either.  The information available on the internet is invaluable, that goes without saying.  There is so much information available that virtually any question can be answered in just a few minutes.
> 
> On the other hand I grew up in the film days.  In the beginning I had a mentor, of sorts, who owned the camera shop I worked in after school.  He died a few years later and I was pretty much left on my own to learn from my mistakes.  Making mistakes and then LOOKING at those mistakes, on my own, helped me immensely.  I learned to truly LOOK at a bad exposure and figure out why it was bad and what I could do to make it better.  Today it's much easier to just jump on an internet forum and ask "What's wrong with this" but when you do not have that advantage, when you have to look and learn on your own, the lessons stick.
> 
> So, as I said, I'm not sure I agree but then I'm not sure I disagree either.
Click to expand...


Mmm, this is what I mean by directing your attention in the right direction.  You can't just ask for specific remedies when you run into specific problems.... (Well you can, but only if all you're trying to do is fix a specific problem.  That approach won't teach you to shoot.)   Integral to learning anything is the long repeated process of trial > error > modification.  My point was that as far as learning theory, understanding your equipment, and obtaining the raw information that you feed into your own personal trial and error process, the internet is as good a source as any.

I do think the impulse to get quick answers to specific questions is what limits most people, as you mentioned.  The key to really getting a handle on any topic is understanding from the bottom up how and why things happen.  Starting from the perspective of the controls on your camera body, you'll only ever glimpse a portion of the information necessary to know what you're doing.  If instead you start from the perspective of light and electrons interacting with your equipment, by the time you work your way out to an individual control, it's obvious what its function is, as well as how you should manipulate it in any given situation.  And to the point, the internet has all the information you'll ever need about knowing how and why your camera works the way it does.


----------



## jwbryson1

Are you related at all to AmateurAllie?


----------



## rexbobcat

Boxhousev said:


> It's funny ababysean...you just proved her point. And to agree with her.  nothing annoys me more personally, then pretentious jerks that give ur opinions opposed to being helpful. It's funny that my first comment to my husband was this forum is one of the meanest I have ever seen. Especially in the "newbie" section. If we are so horrible, post in the professional gallery!  Isn't this the place where I should gain knowledge and be incouraged to continue my craft. I read these posts and feel terrible how cruel others can be. Some of you don't apply you provide helpful information with a compliment. You give actual constructive criticism which is appreciated. Others think they are some sort of "gods gift to photography" and are nothing more then cyber bullies. Just remember you too were new...  I thought by joining I would gain a community, not hostility and judgment. Just my two cents.



It's not that we are so pretentious. It is that newbies come here expecting to be seen as photographic prodigies, and when they realize that the work they put up isn't _quite _as good as they thought, then they get all hurt and start attacking those who disagreed. Posting a few bad photos and asking for comments is a very good thing, but posting photo....after photo...after photo, and there seems to be no improvement. The gloves will eventually come off.

 And I personally find it annoying when a beginner comes here looking for advice, when they haven't even taken it upon themselves to educate themselves about the basic basics basics. Yes, we are here to help, but we are not here to coddle and delude. I'm sorry.


----------



## tirediron

rexbobcat said:


> ... It is that newbies come here expecting to be seen as photographic prodigies, and when they realize that the work they put up isn't _quite _as good as they thought...


I'm not so sure that it's a case of assuming that they are photographic prodigies, but rather that they have no concept of how much there is to know, and that there's a LOT more to getting a top-notch image than just turning your brand-new, Best-Buy DSLR to 'Green box' mode and snapping away.  I've been doing this for 30 years and I still learn something new almost every day.


----------



## jwbryson1

Bitter Jeweler said:


> I've seen bridges with less tension.



You, sir, are the KING of the one-liners!  :thumbup:


----------



## COLTSFANATIC1

what  a perfect name for this thread, HILARIOUS!   yes indeed it is !


----------



## blackrose89

I have no activity on in this thread, and I don't care to. I just want to offer my two cents. I've been skimming through some of the thread, and if I am completely off-base please disregard lol. 

What it seems we have here a newbie who doesn't want to take criticism. Seems to me that too many people want to post their photos, get Oohs and Aahs and be on their way. That's NOT what the forum is about. This forum for the most part is people serious about photgraphy trying to learn and grow. I also don't understand why people are so defensive and keep arguing. If you don't like someone's advice, if you think someone's advice is bull then move on! Yes people are harsh, but in the few weeks that I have seem an improvement in my photos and a hell of a lot more effort in my photos. I understand it, when I first started posting photos, I thought people were going to love it! Guess what, didn't happen. Was I devastated, yes? Do I regret the feedback, NO! My photos are all the better now for the criticism I have received. And also, if you're not looking for serious critique, this isn't really the place to do it, you don't have to post here.
Look at the difference in my photos 

Before harsh critique 






After Harsh critique 





I understand it's no award winning photo, but it's a jump from the prior photo. 

I'm also getting tired about people saying there should be no rules/guidelines to photography, that you can't teach art. Yes you can! There is art school, art classes. There are rules with any art! When you draw, there are guidelines. You can't just sketch a doodle and show it to a real  sketch artist and have them say "OMG this is amazing" Picture taking and photography are TWO different things! Photography is an image creating technique that needs to sucessfully communicate a message between the author and the observer. I get tired of people being crappy at drawing, photography, painting and saying "Well it's art, so it's ok" People use the term "art" way too much as a get out of jail free card to cover up crappy artwork.

Also, another thing, the reason CC is so varying is because a technical factor that might be important to one person, may not be to another. To one person, perfect exposure might be important  and is much more  critical about that rather then someone's poor composition. And Vice versa. You have to take all of the pieces of advice and put them together as best you can. Guess what, if you don't like someone's advice, you can ignore it. Being defensive have never accomplished a critic to suddenly see the light, and like a photo.


----------



## cgipson1

jwbryson1 said:


> Are you related at all to AmateurAllie?



Hey.. thats my line!     lol!


----------



## KmH

There are no rules, only guidelines and interpritations of the guidelines.


----------



## gsgary

The one thing that hit me was that you expected to be able to pick up the skill of photography in a weekend' it takes time some a long time


----------



## blackrose89

KmH said:


> There are no rules, only guidelines and intreptations of the guidelines.


 I guess guidelines is more of what I want.


----------



## fotomanjack

Quite an interesting thread, really. All good answers, all good advice, all good intentions. Much can be learned from all these posts. I hope the original poster reads and understands and LEARNS from these posts.


----------



## SCraig

tirediron said:


> rexbobcat said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... It is that newbies come here expecting to be seen as photographic prodigies, and when they realize that the work they put up isn't _quite _as good as they thought...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not so sure that it's a case of assuming that they are photographic prodigies, but rather that they have no concept of how much there is to know, and that there's a LOT more to getting a top-notch image than just turning your brand-new, Best-Buy DSLR to 'Green box' mode and snapping away.  I've been doing this for 30 years and I still learn something new almost every day.
Click to expand...

Well said.  That's why I think it's so amusing when people post "I just got my camera" and "I'm ready to go professional" in the same post.  Some people honestly and truly have no idea how much there is to learn.  As long as "Automatic" is available to them they are ready to go pro.  I've only been around this forum a few weeks so I can only imagine how many "Pros" will show up a few days after Christmas.


----------



## vtf

I've made my suggestions in the prior 40 threads you started. I suggest looking back and reviewing those.
ibtl


----------



## ababysean

This was my first picture posted here.  April 29, 2010







same kid about 1.5 years later after several butt kickings on TPF...

Far from perfect, but I bitched and complained and yelled and screamed at the CC given, but they have brought me to here....


----------



## tirediron

SCraig said:


> ...I can only imagine how many "Pros" will show up a few days after Christmas.


*Note to self: Disconnect Internet from 26 December until 31 January.


----------



## GrantH

You are getting this confused on such basic principles? You could literally find all of this out by going and shooting your front door for 3 hours. I'm a newb, but everything you said in your post is "manual reading" information, honestly.


----------



## TamiAz

GrantH said:


> You are getting this confused on such basic principles? You could literally find all of this out by going and shooting your front door for 3 hours. I'm a newb, but everything you said in your post is "manual reading" information, honestly.



I had a hard time with some of the stuff in the manual, so I ended up getting one of the books that goes into more depth on the same topics that are in the manual..It was written specifically for the Nikon D5100 and it was a huge help.


----------



## Vtec44

Honestly from your posts, I think the problem is that you try to remember but you don't understand.  You're trying to remember all the suggestions, but you don't understand the "why" for each.

Why raise ISO instead of flash?
Why motion blur at low shutter speed?  At what speed of my subject is okay to use 1/200?  What about 1/320, 1/400, 1/500, 1/800, and so on?
Why f5.6 instead of f2.8 or f1.8?
Where do you crop limbs and where not to crop?  Do I not crop at all, ever?
Pay attention to your histogram? why?  what for?  What's the generally accepted histogram?

There's no 1 right answer, each photograph and each photographer is different, but you need to understand why your settings are in a certain way and why not in a certain way.


----------



## KmH

AMOMENT said:


> Slower shutter: more light in, more room for error in sharpeness


 Nope. Slower shutter speed - more chance of camera shake and/or subject movement blur during the exposure 



AMOMENT said:


> lower aperture numbers (aperture opened up wider) ...more light in/less DOF)


The only correct statement there is a more open aperture lets in more light. 
Otherwise, Nope. A more open aperture is a *bigger *aperture number. f/2 is a bigger number than f/8 is, and you can have less DoF even with a more open aperture because lens focal length, focus point distance the the camera and to the background also affect DoF.



AMOMENT said:


> DOF: dependant upon aperture/focal length


 And the focus point distance from the camera, *and* from the focus point to the background. 



AMOMENT said:


> metering: instead of seeing everything in color see it in shades of black/white/gray. Find your middle gray.


 Nope. Find the appropriate exposure by using the meter, but be aware the meter is calibrated to 18% gray and can be fooled if the scene has *a lot* of white in it, like snow, or a lot of very white wedding dress. Your Nikon D3100 has color-aware metering (it's listed in the Specifications -TTL exposure metering using a 420-pixel RGB metering sensor), a real plus over those other makers cameras that *are* color blind. Plus your D3100 has 3 user selectable metering modes: Spot, Center-weighted, and Matrix that have different uses. 



AMOMENT said:


> Af-C basically means auto focus but you choose your focal point and the camera then continues to keep that point in focus even if your subject moves.


Nope! If you select AF-C as the focus mode, you also have to select one of the focus *area* modes. If you use the single focus point area mode you have to keep that focus point on the subject as the subject moves.



AMOMENT said:


> Af-S. (or servo) basically you lock in your focus and shoot. It does not continue to keep your subject in somewhat focus which is why if there is to be any movement, you need to recompose.


 Sort of. Your Nikon has Auto-servo, Single-servo, and Continuous-servo (page 55 -  D3100 user's manual), and the procedure for *Focus Lock - Recompose* is described on pages 60 & 61.



AMOMENT said:


> composition: don't cut off limbs, rule of thirds, don't fill your frame with your subject (at least all of the time because your margin for error is greater.) STEP BACK!


You can cut off limbs, but it's not a good idea to do so at a joint, because then it looks like an amputation. Yes, fill your frame, but be sure and leave room to crop for different aspect ratio prints. 



AMOMENT said:


> Pop up flash is harsh, Only if the power isn't manually turned down use a diffuser Maybe or (according to some) forget the flash Maybe, bump up your ISO Only if you have some other way to control the light.





AMOMENT said:


> According to others, use a speedlight and bounce or don't bounce the light.


 It depends what you have to bounce off of, what color the bounce surface is, and the lighting effect you want. Bouncing off a ceiling without using a bounce card results in 'raccoon eyes' - dark eye sockets.




AMOMENT said:


> Some say keep ISO as low as possible and bring in other light. (hence my speedlight)


Because you have more artisitc control by bringing in other light than just upping the ISo and using whatever light is available. *Take control of the light* - with a reflector, Or 2 speedlights, or 3 reflectors. It depends on *what* you want to light and *how* you want to light it.



AMOMENT said:


> Shutter speeds: For a moving subject (even just a little movement) shoot no slower than 1/200 and maybe even 1/400. However some have told me to work on camera shake and try 1/60 and keep that ISO down.


 The slower the shutter speed the more likely a photo will record camera shake blur or subject movement blur, _regardless the ISO setting_. You do not yet seem to have even a rudimentary understanding of the relationship the 3 exposure triad settings have to each other, nor an understanding of the basic exposure concept of a 'stop'.



AMOMENT said:


> Pay attention to your historgrams.


 I rarely look at the histogram when I shoot, but sometimes look at a histogram when I am editing a photo post process. You have to know how to read a histogram.



AMOMENT said:


> If you shoot in RAW than you can adjust more in pp.


Maybe. But you don't shoot JPEG, because JPEG is a finished ready-to-print file type that was edited with little to no input from you.  



AMOMENT said:


> White balance has to do with temperature (obviousely).


 White Balance is about light source _*color*_ temperature.



AMOMENT said:


> Focus your AF point on the nearest eye of your subject. (when shooting a portrait; not written in stone)


Maybe. 



AMOMENT said:


> Unwritten rule; for every number of subjects you need to shoot, make sure the aperture is that +1.


 There is a reason that rule is unwritten. You cannot count on it, because there are to many other variables that have to be taken into consideration.


----------



## AMOMENT

I have no problem with someone saying to me point blank "THAT PHOTO SUCKS AND COULD NOT BE ANY WORSE."  I don't think anyone owes me information at all.  I only ask that you don't pass judgement my way by acting as if I OWE YOU something besides gratitude for helpful advice.  I became defensive when everyone actually said I was ignoring their advice and disrespecting them by doing this.  I am trying very hard to apply everything.  

CC is great and I don't mind anyone telling me my work stinks.  In fact if you revisit my posts I NEVER agrue or defend my photos as if to disagree with you.  I thank you, acknowledge your point, and go from there.  The only thing I have ever become resistant to you is when you become angry on here at me for supposedly not taking your advice.  If anything, this is self centered.  

Attack my photos all that you want but I have received numerous personal attacks from people who don't even know me.  It is these that have caused me to state my professions as a way to show you that I am a professional in something as well and therefore know what it's like to teach.  I never talk to my students like this.  I never once scold them for not taking my advice.  If I give them my opinion it is a "gift" and if they choose to embrace it, wonderful.  If they struggle, fine.  

Again...revisit my threads.  I never have shown any resisitant to TRUE CC.  I only became defensive about personal attacks from people insinuating I was doing them some sort of diservice.


----------



## Alpha




----------



## AMOMENT

and....if you want to know what I really think about myself I will tell you.  I have never thought I was even remotely attractive, I have always thought I was dumb, and honestly I have a hard time feeling good about anything I do except for teaching.

Psychologically speaking, I know why I became defensive when you personally attacked me and it stems from truely not being confident. Again, I want CC.  I don't mind you telling me my photos are horrid.  Just please, don't reprimand me because you think I'm not taking your advice.  I am, I just may not be posting it.  I actually make it on to TPF maybe twice a week maybe three times.  Therefore, you are not seeing all of m efforts and I am not reporting them all to you.  Sometimes I will simply post a photo that may have been done against popular opinion, but that I found were my best that week.  

I really would love to keep it all about photography and have only ventured out into drama land on the heels of being accused if things that couldn't be more wrong.

I will gladly admit that I am trying to learn too fast and I know this is a long process.  I'm just very into this and am sometimes hasty about improving.


----------



## Dominantly

If I was trying to learn something new, I would find it quite counter intuitive to stand upon a podium and solicit advice from a vast crowd. You would never be able to differentiate between the yokel and the seasoned professional. You would expect to piss someone off that is yelling advice at you, while your attention is fixed on another individual, especially if you're following the layman of the group.

There is a lot of crap advice here, so maybe you should just take your time and take your photos, and hold back on posting for C&C for a while. Maybe pick someone who's work you enjoy, to help you along (assuming they are receptive).


----------



## AMOMENT

I feel the same way.  Totally beating a dead horse.  I'm sorry.  I'm just frustrated because I feel like I post with good intentions and somehow there is always some sort of insult that is NOT related to photography thrown my way.  

I've tried to move on by posting threads in which I think BUT MAY BE WRONG, I have applied advice only to be sadly accused of some sort of other offense.  

My last post really only had to do with focus.  I didn't apply any of the exposure techniques because I was taking one thing at a time, as advised, and working on focus.

To the woman (I forget the name without scrolling back) who gave me specific settings to try; THANK YOU SO MUCH!  I'm looking foward to giving those a try!


----------



## AMOMENT

ABABYSEAN          WOW! That photo is amazing! What camera do you have/settings did you use? BTW, I never bitched and complained about the advice just when everyone assumed I was deliberately ignoring their advice.


----------



## unpopular

raphaelaaron said:


> i'm pretty sure every forum is like this. if not with photography, then with some other hobby, vocation, etc.



this is one of the worst forums i've encountered; seriously, i have no idea why i'm still here.


----------



## AMOMENT

I AGREE! I'm surprised because I've never had this experience anywhere or even in my life. I'm disappointed that I've engaged so long and so fully and yet, a nerve was struck that had nothing to do with photography.

blackrose: that B&W photo is intense! I love it! Again...dont mind CC, and don't mind you telling me my pictures are terrible. Just please don't assume I am deliberately ignoring advice. I may just not be posting all my trial and errors. If any of you have ever struggled with anything and even in applying what you've learned, either give me the benefit of the doubt or don't respond. I"m just looking to learn.


----------



## blackrose89

unpopular said:


> raphaelaaron said:
> 
> 
> 
> i'm pretty sure every forum is like this. if not with photography, then with some other hobby, vocation, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> this is one of the worst forums i've encountered; seriously, i have no idea why i'm still here.
Click to expand...

Although I am learning a lot and appreciate the feedback, this forum is indeed one of the harshest I've ever encountered. Not saying its a bad thing.


----------



## AMOMENT

On the contrary, it is a testimony to all of you oh how much RESPECT I have for you and your knowledge of photography because despite all the accusations thrown my way unrelated to photog.  I have stayed because I know you guys know your stuff.


----------



## Dominantly

Ok, now you're getting ridiculous.


----------



## blackrose89

AMOMENT said:


> I AGREE! I'm surprised because I've never had this experience anywhere or even in my life. I'm disappointed that I've engaged so long and so fully and yet, a nerve was struck that had nothing to do with photography.blackrose: that B&W photo is intense! I love it! Again...dont mind CC, and don't mind you telling me my pictures are terrible. Just please don't assume I am deliberately ignoring advice. I may just not be posting all my trial and errors. If any of you have ever struggled with anything and even in applying what you've learned, either give me the benefit of the doubt or don't respond. I"m just looking to learn.


Thanks! But I think what it is is no one cares you ignore the advice, but that's what you have to do. Ignore it. You don't have to explain your stance on why, just nod your head and humor people.


----------



## unpopular

I have been accused of the same thing. In my case I think it's helpful to kind of feel out my thoughts to get an idea if the criticism is valid for me, or if it's something I'd be better off just ignoring.

I think it's just as arrogant for critics to say "shut up and don't question me!". I think we can have a discussion about our work without justifying ourselves. But I feel like whenever I try, people jump on me about it.


----------



## mishele

Oh brother.......lol


----------



## unpopular

^^ me?


----------



## cgipson1

AMOMENT said:


> Sometimes I will simply post a photo that may have been done against popular opinion, but that I found were my best that week.



So your best shots are coming from ignoring our advice? Cool! Keep it up!


----------



## tirediron

AMOMENT said:


> ABABYSEAN WOW! *That photo is amazing! What camera do you have/settings did you use?* BTW, I never bitched and complained about the advice just when everyone assumed I was deliberately ignoring their advice.


And there we have the root of your problem.  The camera and settings are irrelevant.  Unless you are going to shoot the same child, at the same time, with identical light, it matters not a whit what settings she used.  If I may, step back from the forums as a learning tool, and head down to your local library and take out every book of photography fundamentals you can.  It doesn't matter if they're old books dealing with film, none of the theory has changed.  Read, and re-read them.  When you have _*specific*_ questions, post them here.  While you're reading, practice - A LOT!  Post one or two images for critique, noting what you see as the strengths and weaknesses of them when you post.


----------



## cgipson1

blackrose89 said:


> AMOMENT said:
> 
> 
> 
> I AGREE! I'm surprised because I've never had this experience anywhere or even in my life. I'm disappointed that I've engaged so long and so fully and yet, a nerve was struck that had nothing to do with photography.blackrose: that B&W photo is intense! I love it! Again...dont mind CC, and don't mind you telling me my pictures are terrible. Just please don't assume I am deliberately ignoring advice. I may just not be posting all my trial and errors. If any of you have ever struggled with anything and even in applying what you've learned, either give me the benefit of the doubt or don't respond. I"m just looking to learn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks! But I think what it is is no one cares you ignore the advice, but that's what you have to do. Ignore it. You don't have to explain your stance on why, just nod your head and humor people.
Click to expand...


Sure.. great way to improve.. just ignore all of the advice!


----------



## unpopular

Given the lack of inspiration around here...


----------



## blackrose89

cgipson1 said:


> blackrose89 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AMOMENT said:
> 
> 
> 
> I AGREE! I'm surprised because I've never had this experience anywhere or even in my life. I'm disappointed that I've engaged so long and so fully and yet, a nerve was struck that had nothing to do with photography.blackrose: that B&W photo is intense! I love it! Again...dont mind CC, and don't mind you telling me my pictures are terrible. Just please don't assume I am deliberately ignoring advice. I may just not be posting all my trial and errors. If any of you have ever struggled with anything and even in applying what you've learned, either give me the benefit of the doubt or don't respond. I"m just looking to learn.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks! But I think what it is is no one cares you ignore the advice, but that's what you have to do. Ignore it. You don't have to explain your stance on why, just nod your head and humor people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure.. great way to improve.. just ignore all of the advice!
Click to expand...

 I think you need to re-read what I wrote. I didn't say don't take advice, I said if you do choose to ignore advice, just ignore the advice, don't spend 10 threads arguing over it. At least that's what I meant.


----------



## cgipson1

unpopular said:


> Given the lack of inspiration around here...



Inspiration comes from within, and how you choose to interact with your environment! If you aren't inspired... how is that our fault?


----------



## cgipson1

blackrose89 said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blackrose89 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks! But I think what it is is no one cares you ignore the advice, but that's what you have to do.* Ignore it. *You don't have to explain your stance on why, just nod your head and humor people.
> 
> 
> 
> Sure.. great way to improve.. just ignore all of the advice!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think you need to re-read what I wrote. I didn't say don't take advice, I said if you do choose to ignore advice, just ignore the advice, don't spend 10 threads arguing over it. At least that's what I meant.
Click to expand...


I am just nodding my head and humoring you!


----------



## unpopular

uhm. i wasn't talking about me.


----------



## cgipson1

unpopular said:


> uhm. i wasn't talking about me.



OH! Sorry bout that! Who WERE you referring to? lol!


----------



## unpopular

LOL. The members here as a whole.

I'm just thinking that maybe the advise here isn't all that great aside from the technical.


----------



## tirediron

unpopular said:


> LOL. The members here as a whole.
> 
> I'm just thinking that maybe the advise here isn't all that great aside from the technical.


And that doesn't include you because...


----------



## ababysean

tirediron said:


> AMOMENT said:
> 
> 
> 
> ABABYSEAN WOW! *That photo is amazing! What camera do you have/settings did you use?* BTW, I never bitched and complained about the advice just when everyone assumed I was deliberately ignoring their advice.
> 
> 
> 
> And there we have the root of your problem.  The camera and settings are irrelevant.  Unless you are going to shoot the same child, at the same time, with identical light, it matters not a whit what settings she used.  If I may, step back from the forums as a learning tool, and head down to your local library and take out every book of photography fundamentals you can.  It doesn't matter if they're old books dealing with film, none of the theory has changed.  Read, and re-read them.  When you have _*specific*_ questions, post them here.  While you're reading, practice - A LOT!  Post one or two images for critique, noting what you see as the strengths and weaknesses of them when you post.
Click to expand...


I don't mind posting the settings.  I think they are relevant. and should be posted with every.single.photo that a poster is asking for.  Because then you could get the person to LOOK AT THEIR CHOICES and do a bit of self CC first!

This photo was taken with my D90.  I used an 85mm 1.4 lens.  ISO800  1/200  F2.2

Why did I choose this?  It was getting dark, we were in the shade.  I am really bad with camera shake, and my kid moves fast.  So I know I wanted as fast of shutter as I could, so I choose to up my ISO in order to keep the shutter at 200.  F2.2 because I was really trying for just an eyelash shot.  I am standing pretty much directly above her and directed her to look up and then close her eyes.  It was a game so I had to be quick...  Again, not the most perfect shot EVER but if you look at the first one I posted 1.5 years ago that I was OVER>THE>MOON with (mommy googles anyone?) but I learned, and have tons more, to read between the lines here on TPF, yes, the board is a bit more aggressive then many others, but for some that is the best way to learn.  Seriously ignore the personal attacks.  They are pointless.  don't worry about defending your choices, but instead take a look at  your settings and then ask yourself why did you choose those?  What do you like, not like, about the picture.... and go from there...

But if you are just spraying and praying, taking 1000 photos a day, and hoping to get one or two good ones... not understanding what you are doing right or doing wrong, what is the point.

So.  Go do a little exercise right now, take a toy, set it on the table.  

Take your camera and attach your flash, and take a pic like you did with your daughter..... do what you did, but on the toy...  

THEN....... do this 
rotate the flash to fire behind you (be in the vicinity of a wall, who cares what color it is for now...) up at about a 75 degree angle....  use F4, ISO 400, and 1/40th of a second.  

now compare the two photos.  post them here.  say what looks good/bad about each and explain why they are different....


----------



## unpopular

because i at least try to address the artistic as well as the technical.


----------



## cgipson1

unpopular said:


> LOL. The members here as a whole.
> 
> I'm just thinking that maybe the advise here isn't all that great aside from the technical.



Technical is fairly easy for us to cover.. although it seems that many have trouble absorbing it! The ARTISTIC side of things is MUCH MORE difficult to convey! We can teach some of the rules of Composition.. but we can't teach when or why or how to apply them (not without killing creativity, and creating a bunch of little MWAC clones out there!)

Can you give specifics as to what we are missing?


----------



## unpopular

cgipson1 said:


> Can you give specifics as to what we are missing?



I need to learn to stfu.


----------



## thereyougo!

tirediron said:


> AMOMENT said:
> 
> 
> 
> ABABYSEAN WOW! *That photo is amazing! What camera do you have/settings did you use?* BTW, I never bitched and complained about the advice just when everyone assumed I was deliberately ignoring their advice.
> 
> 
> 
> And there we have the root of your problem.  The camera and settings are irrelevant.  Unless you are going to shoot the same child, at the same time, with identical light, it matters not a whit what settings she used.  If I may, step back from the forums as a learning tool, and head down to your local library and take out every book of photography fundamentals you can.  It doesn't matter if they're old books dealing with film, none of the theory has changed.  Read, and re-read them.  When you have _*specific*_ questions, post them here.  While you're reading, practice - A LOT!  Post one or two images for critique, noting what you see as the strengths and weaknesses of them when you post.
Click to expand...

A year or more back, I liked the effect of a photograph in a photography magazine in the UK.  It had the EXIF information with the caption.  This led me to experiment with similar settings and helped me try using different apertures/shooting speeds.  So I think that the setting speeds can be very useful and relevant.  It's not about trying to replicate the shot, but to learn how that shot was taken.  
To *AMOMENT*, go ahead and read some books and magazines, try some different things out.  Follow *ABABYSEAN*'s excellent advice.  I know it's winter, but try and get some shots outside.  You can get some amazing natural light at this time of year and shot some landscapes and cityscapes.  If you have a tripod or something else experimet with low light shooting.  Set yourself some chalenges using skills you read about.

I would suggest that you post less images and be careful to try and pick your very best one.


----------



## tirediron

unpopular said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you give specifics as to what we are missing?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I need to learn to stfu.
Click to expand...

Not going to argue with you, but that's a personal issue; what is it the rest of us are missing?


----------



## cgipson1

unpopular said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you give specifics as to what we are missing?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I need to learn to stfu.
Click to expand...


Been there, done that! Got the kick in the pants!


----------



## MTVision

AMOMENT said:
			
		

> and....if you want to know what I really think about myself I will tell you.  I have never thought I was even remotely attractive, I have always thought I was dumb, and honestly I have a hard time feeling good about anything I do except for teaching.
> 
> Psychologically speaking, I know why I became defensive when you personally attacked me and it stems from truely not being confident. Again, I want CC.  I don't mind you telling me my photos are horrid.  Just please, don't reprimand me because you think I'm not taking your advice.  I am, I just may not be posting it.  I actually make it on to TPF maybe twice a week maybe three times.  Therefore, you are not seeing all of m efforts and I am not reporting them all to you.  Sometimes I will simply post a photo that may have been done against popular opinion, but that I found were my best that week.
> 
> I really would love to keep it all about photography and have only ventured out into drama land on the heels of being accused if things that couldn't be more wrong.
> 
> I will gladly admit that I am trying to learn too fast and I know this is a long process.  I'm just very into this and am sometimes hasty about improving.



If you can only get on a few times a week then just reading through the forums or doing searches for certain things would probably more productive. I know you know how to check to see if you nailed your focus and if you still aren't there are tons of exercises you can do to practice. Search for focus and you will probably find tons of threads with the same issues. I know on the other forum there is a new thread everyday about focus issues. There are also some year old threads that are amazingly helpful but you have to search for them. One of the posters on this thread - Dominately (?) - has a couple threads from a year ago (or more) that explain exposure, light meter, etc. very well. Sit back and lurk and you will probably learn more then you have in your threads. 

Www.cambridgeincolour.com has great tutorials that covers pretty much everything you need to know on digital photography.  Once you understand it thoroughly it might be easier to put it together with camera in hand.


----------



## unpopular

20-some page thread ftw!


----------



## AMOMENT

Thanks everyone!  ABABYSEAN...I am taking your challenge tomorrow and doing my homework! I like hearing the settings too because if I then have questions pertaining as to why you used those settings I can ask.  Sometimes I think we all learn better by example so seeing actual tangible work with settings that I could POTENTIALLY use, is extremely helpful.  I know that depending upon SO many things, settings need to be changed and yet, I find this so helpful. 

When you told me that you really wanted the eyelashes in focus and that is why you used 2.2 it showed me that you can fill your frame in a way that softens the rest of the image, without being blurry, and yet still have your main focus, sharp.  

I also checked my settings in my camera and i think I know why I was struggling with so much blur and noise despite taking your advice.  You see, what happened was I tried bumping my ISO to 800 one day so I could keep my shutter no slower than 1/200 but I had such grainy and blurry pics.  I even opened up my aperture to 5.6 and stood pretty far back from my subject. (about 10 feet away)   You see my sharpness settings in my camera were set really low and my default ISO, EXTREMELY HIGH.  Once I changed these, I began to see that I could raise my ISO with out unimaginable noise (you had to see these pics...terrible!)  So I had taken the advice but was so ashamed with the photos and couldn't believe this could be right.  One night I really delved into my camera and explored and that is when I found those settings to be off.  

I'm psyched to try all these suggestions out tomorrow!  I literally have them written down.    < taking notes like a huge dork!>


----------



## SCraig

ababysean said:


> I don't mind posting the settings.  I think they are relevant. and should be posted with every.single.photo that a poster is asking for.  Because then you could get the person to LOOK AT THEIR CHOICES and do a bit of self CC first!
> 
> This photo was taken with my D90.  I used an 85mm 1.4 lens.  ISO800  1/200  F2.2
> --Snip--


I tend to agree with that.  I look at EXIF data frequently, when it's available and from someone who's photography I admire, because I can learn from it.

I know someone on another forum who shoots a lot of motorsports events.  He can pan with a subject as well as anyone I've ever seen and can get tack sharp photographs of race cars and motorcycles running wide open at around 1/80 of a second.  I'm always amazed at how well he can do that because my best is about twice his speed.

I know another who is amazing at shooting birds.  I know he shoots at 200mm from the EXIF data and it's something that I aspire to do as well.

Similar concepts with landscapes, night shots, macro, and everything else.  Looking at EXIF data lets me at least know that something is possible at specific settings and from there I try to teach myself to emulate it.  Certainly the actual physics of taking the shot can't be gleaned from the EXIF data but just knowing that something can be done is an incentive to me.


----------



## AMOMENT

Thanks, Megan!  You have always been so helpful!  A lot of people on here have been increidble! Thank you! Thereyago, I will try that.  

BTW, I actually did post those atrocious photos done with your suggestions on another forum and they even said that with those settings, they were confused as to why I had gotten those results.  This is what led me to really investigate my camera.  I feel like I had done so already and so many times and yet, I learned and noticed something different.


----------



## MTVision

AMOMENT said:
			
		

> Thanks everyone!  ABABYSEAN...I am taking your challenge tomorrow and doing my homework! I like hearing the settings too because if I then have questions pertaining as to why you used those settings I can ask.  Sometimes I think we all learn better by example so seeing actual tangible work with settings that I could POTENTIALLY use, is extremely helpful.  I know that depending upon SO many things, settings need to be changed and yet, I find this so helpful.
> 
> When you told me that you really wanted the eyelashes in focus and that is why you used 2.2 it showed me that you can fill your frame in a way that softens the rest of the image, without being blurry, and yet still have your main focus, sharp.
> 
> I also checked my settings in my camera and i think I know why I was struggling with so much blur and noise despite taking your advice.  You see, what happened was I tried bumping my ISO to 800 one day so I could keep my shutter no slower than 1/200 but I had such grainy and blurry pics.  I even opened up my aperture to 5.6 and stood pretty far back from my subject. (about 10 feet away)   You see my sharpness settings in my camera were set really low and my default ISO, EXTREMELY HIGH.  Once I changed these, I began to see that I could raise my ISO with out unimaginable noise (you had to see these pics...terrible!)  So I had taken the advice but was so ashamed with the photos and couldn't believe this could be right.  One night I really delved into my camera and explored and that is when I found those settings to be off.
> 
> I'm psyched to try all these suggestions out tomorrow!  I literally have them written down.    < taking notes like a huge dork!>



Sharpness setting in the camera only affects the Jpeg (as far as I know) so that being low isn't going to affect your raw file. You will still have noisy photos at high ISO's if you Underexpose them even a little. If you set your ISO at 800 and took the picture at ISO 800 your default ISO wouldn't matter. Your ISO isn't on auto is it???


----------



## AMOMENT

SCraig, so funny you should say that becasue I have a photog. friend who can shoot moving children completely manual! She nails the focus and the photos are incredible! LOL. I can't "touch" that! I'm horrid with manual.


----------



## thereyougo!

AMOMENT said:


> Thanks everyone!  ABABYSEAN...I am taking your challenge tomorrow and doing my homework! I like hearing the settings too because if I then have questions pertaining as to why you used those settings I can ask.  Sometimes I think we all learn better by example so seeing actual tangible work with settings that I could POTENTIALLY use, is extremely helpful.  I know that depending upon SO many things, settings need to be changed and yet, I find this so helpful.
> 
> When you told me that you really wanted the eyelashes in focus and that is why you used 2.2 it showed me that you can fill your frame in a way that softens the rest of the image, without being blurry, and yet still have your main focus, sharp.
> 
> I also checked my settings in my camera and i think I know why I was struggling with so much blur and noise despite taking your advice.  You see, what happened was I tried bumping my ISO to 800 one day so I could keep my shutter no slower than 1/200 but I had such grainy and blurry pics.  I even opened up my aperture to 5.6 and stood pretty far back from my subject. (about 10 feet away)   You see my sharpness settings in my camera were set really low and my default ISO, EXTREMELY HIGH.  Once I changed these, I began to see that I could raise my ISO with out unimaginable noise (you had to see these pics...terrible!)  So I had taken the advice but was so ashamed with the photos and couldn't believe this could be right.  One night I really delved into my camera and explored and that is when I found those settings to be off.
> 
> I'm psyched to try all these suggestions out tomorrow!  I literally have them written down.    < taking notes like a huge dork!>



What size do you look at your photos?  If you look at 100% then you will never be satisfied.  You need to look at them at the largest size that you would print.  Very rarely is this 100% of what the camera took.  Zoom in to 100% to check sharpness, but don't measure noise this way, as you're unlikely to look at any print at 100%


----------



## AMOMENT

I actually always look at them at 100% so this is helpful to hear!!


----------



## MTVision

thereyougo! said:
			
		

> What size do you look at your photos?  If you look at 100% then you will never be satisfied.  You need to look at them at the largest size that you would print.  Very rarely is this 100% of what the camera took.  Zoom in to 100% to check sharpness, but don't measure noise this way, as you're unlikely to look at any print at 100%



Agree 100%. My favorite picture of my daughter was shot at ISO 3200 (ISO was from me forgetting to change it). I printed it at 8x10 and you can't see the noise. If I zoom in 100% on the computer then you can see the noise.


----------



## tirediron

SCraig said:


> I tend to agree with that. I look at EXIF data frequently, when it's available and from someone who's photography I admire, because I can learn from it...


Just to clarify my earlier post.  I totally agree that you can learn a lot from another photographer's EXIF data, BUT, in order to learn, you have to understand what you're looking at.  Meaning no disrespect to the OP, I don't yet think she's at that point, and I suspect hopes, albeit, perhaps subconciously, that she could duplicate a given image using the same settings as the original photographer used.


----------



## ababysean

Do you mean she shoots them in manual focus or manual settings?


----------



## AMOMENT

actually, scratch that because it depends on the program I'm using.  I usually view the entire image at once and it is fit to screen perfectly.  I can see the entire picture without having to scroll no matter which program I'm using but for some the "zoom percentage" is slated as higher or in different ranking.  On my VIEW NX which came with my camera, my view is set to the default.


----------



## AMOMENT

on PSE , I view it around 12- 13 %


----------



## AMOMENT

No, complete manual focus!


----------



## AMOMENT

She spins that ring around, lol, like it's going out of style.


----------



## AMOMENT

And still nails it.  I know shooting in M priority does not mean manual focus.  Crazy, right?


----------



## ababysean

M priority???  

If she uses a zoom lens, she can spin it as fast as she wants.....

but some do use manual focus I mean they did before they had auto focus.... lol  I just don't know why anyone would.


----------



## cgipson1

There are a lot of us on here that remember shooting before AF became usable... it isn't that hard, but it does take practice. Most of the old zoom lenses had a a single ring for focus and zoom.. made it really nice! You could compose and focus very quickly. Not too difficult with primes... I do admit I usually only focus manually for Macro.. and stationary objects. AF is actually a better choice for fast moving subjects... today's AF is very accurate with a good body, and a pro lens.


----------



## analog.universe

Most of the time I prefer manual focus to auto.  I'm not good enough yet to use it all the time, but I'm working on it.  Like anything else, doing it by hand means you do it however you want, instead of working within the confines of the autofocus system.  If you've got a split prism, or coarse matte focusing screen, manual focus is a lot easier than you'd expect.


----------



## MLeeK

OH. MY. GOD. 
I haven't read, I haven't responded and I haven't got enough energy in me to read this pile of sh1t. WOW. 

First, I have been a member of many forums and this is by far the most combative I am in. It amazes me. 

AMOMENT-why do you stay and try to learn HERE in particular? There are many forums on the web that are NOT like this. THere are also several that are aimed at mom's with cameras and the help there has never been like the "help" here. You'll do much better there. Not that I want you to leave. I know that when you post there is going to be a littany of bickering and entertainment. Well, then.. maybe that's why you stay. Cheap entertainment. 

You would be best invested to find a photographer near you who does classes and pay the $ to spend a day with him or her teaching you. It will be much easier than this has been for you. 

As for your post in particular you have learned some things in your head that are a great start. Why aren't you applying them? What is throwing you?


----------



## cgipson1

Katzeye makes a really nice, bright split prism focusing screen.. if anyone needs one!  I would love to find a Coarse / Split combo.. has always been my favorite for focusing..


----------



## mc1979

Alot of the forums for MWAC have more snarkiness than this one... mainly because they are all women...and before anyone attacks me for saying that, I'm a woman


----------



## vtf

I'm curious why these photog buddies of your don't critique your photos and offer advice on them? Those connections are much more valuable than a forum of people you don't know.


----------



## bogeyguy

AMOMENT, just like life you pick and chose, experiment, see what you like and don't like. Absorb as much knowledge as you can and use what is useful for your needs. Don't sweat the little things. Don't try to learnh it all in a few months. Some of the folks on here have been doing it for years and will be the first to tell you they are still learning....................from forums just like this. I'm a beginner and I'm on this site everyday picking up bits of information that I think I may use now or in the future.


----------



## ababysean

vtf said:


> I'm curious why these photog buddies of your don't critique your photos and offer advice on them? Those connections are much more valuable than a forum of people you don't know.



BECAUSE they are her friends.... and don't want to be mean.... so they keep sugar coating everything and telling her everything is great!


----------



## vtf

ababysean said:


> vtf said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious why these photog buddies of your don't critique your photos and offer advice on them? Those connections are much more valuable than a forum of people you don't know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BECAUSE they are her friends.... and don't want to be mean.... so they keep sugar coating everything and telling her everything is great!
Click to expand...


They're mentioned throughout this and other threads but they offer no substantial help. My friends would allow me to tag along on photo shoots and spend time explaining how things work and why, also give instructions on best ways to work on learning, maybe the ways they did. This is the way I treat my friends.
I don't believe I'd want friends who wouldn't be truthful or open when I was interested in their opinion of my work.


----------



## ababysean

vtf said:


> ababysean said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vtf said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious why these photog buddies of your don't critique your photos and offer advice on them? Those connections are much more valuable than a forum of people you don't know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BECAUSE they are her friends.... and don't want to be mean.... so they keep sugar coating everything and telling her everything is great!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They're mentioned throughout this and other threads but they offer no substantial help. My friends would allow me to tag along on photo shoots and spend time explaining how things work and why, also give instructions on best ways to work on learning, maybe the ways they did. This is the way I treat my friends.
> I don't believe I'd want friends who wouldn't be truthful or open when I was interested in their opinion of my work.
Click to expand...



ahhh but alas, you are not a female. again, this is a very male dominated board, so the cc is harsher, such is true in the real world.... women, we tend to fluff our friends feathers....


----------



## rexbobcat

ababysean said:


> vtf said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ababysean said:
> 
> 
> 
> BECAUSE they are her friends.... and don't want to be mean.... so they keep sugar coating everything and telling her everything is great!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They're mentioned throughout this and other threads but they offer no substantial help. My friends would allow me to tag along on photo shoots and spend time explaining how things work and why, also give instructions on best ways to work on learning, maybe the ways they did. This is the way I treat my friends.
> I don't believe I'd want friends who wouldn't be truthful or open when I was interested in their opinion of my work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> ahhh but alas, you are not a female. again, this is a very male dominated board, so the cc is harsher, such is true in the real world.... women, we tend to fluff our friends feathers....
Click to expand...


Maybe some of her friends aren't photography-inclined as well? I mean, most of my friends don't take photos, so I could take a rather mediocre shot and they'd be wow'ed by it.

My response is usually just "...really....you like that one....seriously?"


----------



## vtf

ababysean said:


> vtf said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ababysean said:
> 
> 
> 
> BECAUSE they are her friends.... and don't want to be mean.... so they keep sugar coating everything and telling her everything is great!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They're mentioned throughout this and other threads but they offer no substantial help. My friends would allow me to tag along on photo shoots and spend time explaining how things work and why, also give instructions on best ways to work on learning, maybe the ways they did. This is the way I treat my friends.
> I don't believe I'd want friends who wouldn't be truthful or open when I was interested in their opinion of my work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> ahhh but alas, you are not a female. again, this is a very male dominated board, so the cc is harsher, such is true in the real world.... women, we tend to fluff our friends feathers....
Click to expand...


I'll wait for my original question to be answered before I assume.


----------



## vtf

rexbobcat said:


> ababysean said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vtf said:
> 
> 
> 
> They're mentioned throughout this and other threads but they offer no substantial help. My friends would allow me to tag along on photo shoots and spend time explaining how things work and why, also give instructions on best ways to work on learning, maybe the ways they did. This is the way I treat my friends.
> I don't believe I'd want friends who wouldn't be truthful or open when I was interested in their opinion of my work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ahhh but alas, you are not a female. again, this is a very male dominated board, so the cc is harsher, such is true in the real world.... women, we tend to fluff our friends feathers....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe some of her friends aren't photography-inclined as well? I mean, most of my friends don't take photos, so I could take a rather mediocre shot and they'd be wow'ed by it.
> 
> My response is usually just "...really....you like that one....seriously?"
Click to expand...


Really need to read the whole series of quotes.


----------



## MLeeK

ababysean said:


> ahhh but alas, you are not a female. again, this is a very male dominated board, so the cc is harsher, such is true in the real world.... women, we tend to fluff our friends feathers....


I prefer to think we are more MOM-ish... We tend to be nurturing and encouraging.


----------



## MTVision

vtf said:
			
		

> I'll wait for my original question to be answered before I assume.



I know that one of the photographers amoment talks about lives in another state - pretty far away.


----------



## AMOMENT

Actually my main photog friend lives in texas so I can't tag along with her unfortunately.  She is brutally honest which I love because when I finally do fix something and she tells me I know she is not just fluffing my feathers.  I have a friend who is by no means a prof but we share the hobby and learning experience.  Her father is the prof photographer or actuAlly was because he is now a minister.  He has shown me a lot and taught me a lot but he really doesn't do too much of it anymore.   The other is my moms friend who also lives far away but we email sometimes.   Both of those men don't really fb but send me lots of reading material.   The one in Texas is really who I admire most and she gives me so much guidance.   I will say that her advice is a little more liberal in that she believes in putting the book down and learning hands on more.     I think I explained that I recently tried everyone's suggestions such as raising my shutter and f stop.  I shot at 5.6 and a shutter sp of 1/200 -600 range outdoors and stood 10 feet away from my subject.  The pics were horribly noisy and blurry.   I posted those on another site, as mentioned, and they even said my settings seemed right and yet the photos did look off for those setting as.... So much so they suggested I have my camera looked at.  I did find that my sharpness setting was real low and my default ISo was real high and since then my pics have seemed better.  I haven't posted any of those.                                               The ones I posted most recently were with a flash because someone on here sent me a tutorial about using your flash regularly for shadows etc.                                                                 I stay on here because although I find people can be bit hostile I have learned a lot and I know how experienced everyone is.  I really don't mind tough cc on my photos just don't care for it about me from strangers.  That's all.


----------



## AMOMENT

Sorry that was one huge paragraph I sent it from my iphone


----------



## unpopular

AMOMENT said:


> I did find that my sharpness setting was real low and my default ISo was real high and since then my pics have seemed better



Well, that's the start of your problems: the words "default settings".

Also, you should shoot with low sharpness settings and provide USM or HP or whatever sharpening routine you prefer in post.


----------



## enzodm

AMOMENT said:


> ABABYSEAN          WOW! That photo is amazing! What camera do you have/settings did you use?



eye, brain, good taste.


----------



## MTVision

AMOMENT said:
			
		

> Actually my main photog friend lives in texas so I can't tag along with her unfortunately.  She is brutally honest which I love because when I finally do fix something and she tells me I know she is not just fluffing my feathers.  I have a friend who is by no means a prof but we share the hobby and learning experience.  Her father is the prof photographer or actuAlly was because he is now a minister.  He has shown me a lot and taught me a lot but he really doesn't do too much of it anymore.   The other is my moms friend who also lives far away but we email sometimes.   Both of those men don't really fb but send me lots of reading material.   The one in Texas is really who I admire most and she gives me so much guidance.   I will say that her advice is a little more liberal in that she believes in putting the book down and learning hands on more.     I think I explained that I recently tried everyone's suggestions such as raising my shutter and f stop.  I shot at 5.6 and a shutter sp of 1/200 -600 range outdoors and stood 10 feet away from my subject.  The pics were horribly noisy and blurry.   I posted those on another site, as mentioned, and they even said my settings seemed right and yet the photos did look off for those setting as.... So much so they suggested I have my camera looked at.  I did find that my sharpness setting was real low and my default ISo was real high and since then my pics have seemed better.  I haven't posted any of those.                                               The ones I posted most recently were with a flash because someone on here sent me a tutorial about using your flash regularly for shadows etc.                                                                 I stay on here because although I find people can be bit hostile I have learned a lot and I know how experienced everyone is.  I really don't mind tough cc on my photos just don't care for it about me from strangers.  That's all.



If your camera wasn't set to auto ISO and you were actually setting the ISO in manual mode and the Picture was taken with the ISO you set then I don't really know why your pictures would be noisy because of the default setting. If anything the pictures were noisy because you underexposed and/or brightened/raised exposure in post. If your taking a picture at ISO 100 then your default has nothing to do with it. On the other forum the most recent pictures were taken at ISO 100, f/5.6 and 1/30 with your speedlight. Not too sure why these would be noisy unless you used fill light, exposure or brightness in post. 

Anything shot at ISO 100, 200, 400 that has a lot of noise is due to under exposure or something you are doing in post. The sharpness setting and the default ISO setting has nothing to do with it. Are you talking about the ISO sensitivity in the camera menu? Even if that was set really high - you can still change it in manual mode which is what you must be doing since none of the photos you have posted are shot at high ISO's.


----------



## 2WheelPhoto

So many pages of "pure winning thread" thus far


----------



## unpopular

Where is that matrix kid, anyway?


----------



## GeorgieGirl

This is riduculous at this point.


----------



## ababysean

I am betting the photo was likely underexposed so when you tried to bring it back in  PSE (or gimp, or CS5 or whatever) that is what brought the grain and loss of detail into the shot.  Those settings mean NOTHING with noise.  I can take a picture at those settings and so what?  It depends on YOUR light at the time.  and you can't just say oh it was mid day, so what.... where were you standing, how was the light hitting the subject...



There will be a second where everythign for whatever reason will just click, and you will want to smack yourself in the face because you didn't get it before.... and that will be when you improve on something, and then you rock the exposure but your composition will fail.... your backgrounds.... it goes on and on and on...


----------



## cgipson1

ababysean said:


> We can only hope!


----------



## eUgalde13

Is http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...77-cc-not-my-photos-i-campare-myself-her.htmlthis the same Texas friend you're talking about? If it is you should know by now that is not a good example to follow.

Sent from my iPhone using PhotographyForum app


----------



## ghache

you guys need to smoke a bat and relax.


----------



## fjrabon

This may be the most accurate thread title in TPF history.


----------



## cgipson1

eUgalde13 said:


> Is http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...77-cc-not-my-photos-i-campare-myself-her.htmlthis the same Texas friend you're talking about? If it is you should know by now that is not a good example to follow.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PhotographyForum app



THOSE are from the "Texas Friend"???? I wouldn't pay any attention to anything she says.. those suck! And if YOU know more about photography then she does (as stated - and you know very little, correct?) then why in the HECK do you even listen to her! OMG!


----------



## SCraig

cgipson1 said:


> eUgalde13 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...77-cc-not-my-photos-i-campare-myself-her.htmlthis the same Texas friend you're talking about? If it is you should know by now that is not a good example to follow.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PhotographyForum app
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THOSE are from the "Texas Friend"???? I wouldn't pay any attention to anything she says.. those suck! And if YOU know more about photography then she does (as stated - and you know very little, correct?) then why in the HECK do you even listen to her! OMG!
Click to expand...

Wow!  I think I could shoot portraits as well as that, and I don't shoot portraits because I'm terrible at it!


----------



## cgipson1

SCraig said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eUgalde13 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...77-cc-not-my-photos-i-campare-myself-her.htmlthis the same Texas friend you're talking about? If it is you should know by now that is not a good example to follow.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PhotographyForum app
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THOSE are from the "Texas Friend"???? I wouldn't pay any attention to anything she says.. those suck! And if YOU know more about photography then she does (as stated - and you know very little, correct?) then why in the HECK do you even listen to her! OMG!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wow!  I think I could shoot portraits as well as that, and I don't shoot portraits because I'm terrible at it!
Click to expand...



hahaha... my cat could shoot better portraits than that!


----------



## SCraig

cgipson1 said:


> hahaha... my cat could shoot better portraits than that!


My cats are too stubborn and snooty to worry about photography.  If it doesn't have anything to do with food or sleeping they don't show much interest.


----------



## kundalini

I read through a small chunk of the drivel in this thread and feel the need to take a shower.






And I don't usually bathe on Mondays.


----------



## eUgalde13

cgipson1 said:
			
		

> hahaha... my cat could shoot better portraits than that!



Maybe not a cat but I know of a monkey that takes very nice pictures: 
http://media3point0.wordpress.com/2...a-monkey-takes-pictures-monkey-see-monkey-do/  is a very good friend of mine and I take advices from him lol.

Sent from my iPhone using PhotographyForum app


----------



## Bitter Jeweler

SCraig said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> hahaha... my cat could shoot better portraits than that!
> 
> 
> 
> My cats are too stubborn and snooty to worry about photography.  If it doesn't have anything to do with food or sleeping they don't show much interest.
Click to expand...


Mine are too busy playing games on the iPad.


----------



## PhotoWrangler

AMOMENT said:


> Who are my supposed to listen to? Who is right?





Photography is like cooking eggs. There are thousands of recipes, but only three main necessities. The egg, the pan, and the heat. You determine how the outcome tastes.

Learn your basics (exposure triangle etc), and go from there. If you continue to listen to people, you'll only waste time.


----------



## Tee

AMOMENT:  one thing to consider when starting your next thread for C&C is to limit your photos to 3 and limit your post processing so reviewers can see the image SOOC.  I know this has been addressed before and I think it will help in the overall direction and tone of the thread.


----------



## Joel_W

I just signed on to this list a few days ago, so you can't get any newer then that. I've recently returned to photography as a serious hobby. So much has changed in my 35 years absence, but the basics are still exactly the same.  

As for this thread it just keeps on going in circles. 

AMOMENT, You've seem to confuse blurry with out of focus. They are two entirely different things. With your camera you shouldn't ever be out of focus using one of the auto focus modes.   Shooting at to slow of a shutter speed will allow for camera shake, hence, blurriness. Increase shutter speed, ISO setting, use a flash, even a tripod, and or any combination. 90% of my pictures are taken on a tripod. I wouldn't ever leave home without it. 

Because I'm not concerned with fast action, as a general rule I use either manual or Aperture preferred mode. Metering is usually spot unless the subject matter isn't a macro shot, and the vast majority of the central subject fills the picture frame, then I use matrix.  As for exposure, I use the same old guide lines that the meter is trying to make the central focused image neutral grey. You don't want that. So if it's lighter I open up a 1/3-1/2 stop, if it's darker I close down a 1/3-1/2 stop. I don't even think about it anymore. Look at the Histogram as a reference. If you're off the scale one way or the other, just adjust a 1/3-1/2 stop either way. Still not sure, then adjust and bracket by 1 stop. 99% chance you got a correctly exposed image. Their is also exposure compensation, but for beginners I wouldn't go that route. It has is uses, but not for general exposure control. 

 Since you're just starting out in photography use the K.I.S.S. principle. You don't need to learn everything all at once. Take it in small, simple steps. Forget all those gimmick settings, and concentrate on the basics; subject matter, composition, lighting, depth of field, and exposure. Buy and use a tripod. Once you get the basics down and feel comfortable with them, then you can expand your knowledge of the flexibility of your camera.  Spend a little time as look at the masters. Those of the guidelines they used, and those are the same ones we all should be using. They didn't take consistently great photographs using gimmicks. 

  I've yet to bother with any of those gimmick settings, and never, ever, use P/auto. You didn't move up to a DSLR to use it as a P&S camera. 

 I have about a dozen or so pictures in my gallery. Please stop by and take a look. View them using the 5 principles I laid out. Please pm or email me with your thoughts on them. 

 Lastly, photography should be a creative outlet to capture images that mean something to you. It's a relaxing time out from the pressures of life. A way to store memories. Nothing more, nothing less. 

Joel


----------



## tirediron

kundalini said:


> I read through a small chunk of the drivel in this thread and feel the need to take a shower.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I don't usually bathe on Mondays.


Yeah.... I've been meaning to talk to you about that!


----------



## gsgary

I'll come back on page 20


----------



## AMOMENT

Is CC: NOT MY PHOTOS. I CAMPARE MYSELF TO HER.this the same Texas friend you're talking about? If it is you should know by now that is not a good example to follow.

Sent from my iPhone using PhotographyForum app 




......not the same friend.  That friend is not a prof by any means.  We just learn together and share the love of this hobby.​


----------



## gsgary

AMOMENT said:


> Is CC: NOT MY PHOTOS. I CAMPARE MYSELF TO HER.this the same Texas friend you're talking about? If it is you should know by now that is not a good example to follow.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PhotographyForum app
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ......not the same friend.  That friend is not a prof by any means.  We just learn together and share the love of this hobby.​




Her focus is worse than yours


----------



## AMOMENT

Meg, to be honest I was surprised that those settings did affect it because when in manual, I would think the ISO is overrided.  The pictures on the other site that I was referring to weren't with my speedlight because I didn't have it yet.  (the ones with the rollerskates)


----------



## eUgalde13

gsgary said:
			
		

> I'll come back on page 20



This should've been locked after post count #2 but I think page 11 maybe 12 is as far as this is gonna go 

Sent from my iPhone using PhotographyForum app


----------



## gsgary

eUgalde13 said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll come back on page 20
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This should've been locked after post count #2 but I think page 11 maybe 12 is as far as this is gonna go
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PhotographyForum app
Click to expand...


What and spoil everones fun


----------



## AMOMENT

ABABYSEAN:  (you said to try these settings)  but I thought everyone advised against shooting lower than 1/200


"ABABYSEAN SAID "Set your camera to 1/40, iso 400, and F4

Tell your little sweet girl to dance, jump, play some music get her into it, and then put your flash, point it about 75 degrees behind you, you can use TTL. This will have it bounce off the wall behind you and fall nice onto her.


----------



## Vtec44

AMOMENT said:


> ABABYSEAN:  (you said to try these settings)  but I thought everyone advised against shooting lower than 1/200




This is why I don't think you understand each element of the exposure triangle, how they work, and how to apply them into your photography.


----------



## gsgary

AMOMENT said:


> ABABYSEAN:  (you said to try these settings)  but I thought everyone advised against shooting lower than 1/200
> 
> 
> "ABABYSEAN SAID "Set your camera to 1/40, iso 400, and F4
> 
> Tell your little sweet girl to dance, jump, play some music get her into it, and then put your flash, point it about 75 degrees behind you, you can use TTL. This will have it bounce off the wall behind you and fall nice onto her.




The only times to shoot 1/40 with flash is in a dark studio or if you are dragging the shutter like you see in nightclubs


----------



## eUgalde13

AMOMENT said:
			
		

> ABABYSEAN:  (you said to try these settings)  but I thought everyone advised against shooting lower than 1/200
> 
> "ABABYSEAN SAID "Set your camera to 1/40, iso 400, and F4
> 
> Tell your little sweet girl to dance, jump, play some music get her into it, and then put your flash, point it about 75 degrees behind you, you can use TTL. This will have it bounce off the wall behind you and fall nice onto her.


You should listen to your light meter not what anybody tells you unless you are in the same room with the same light and probably same equipment 

Sent from my iPhone using PhotographyForum app


----------



## ababysean

AMOMENT said:


> ABABYSEAN:  (you said to try these settings)  but I thought everyone advised against shooting lower than 1/200
> 
> 
> "ABABYSEAN SAID "Set your camera to 1/40, iso 400, and F4
> 
> Tell your little sweet girl to dance, jump, play some music get her into it, and then put your flash, point it about 75 degrees behind you, you can use TTL. This will have it bounce off the wall behind you and fall nice onto her.



You need to know why I said to try those... You are going to shoot a toy, something that is NOT moving. You are going to expose the photo with flash... Flash FREEZES motion.

Do it with the toy, then have your daughter jump and dance and spin around in a room, use the same settings, bounce the flash like I said, 75 degree behing you off a wall.... have her jump, spin in a circle... just do it.  Dont be inches from her, fill the frame with the room.  If you are outside, using 1/40th of a second with kids is a big NO!  but when you are using flash to expose the photo, well just give it a try.  

I really think you should honestly put the flash away until you have a grasp on what each part each setting does....  leave your kid at home, get an adult friend, like an hour before sunset, wrap her/him up real nice in a big winter coat if it is cold, and go shoot and try to expose the photo properly in camera, using your meter and histogram.


----------



## gsgary

ababysean said:


> AMOMENT said:
> 
> 
> 
> ABABYSEAN:  (you said to try these settings)  but I thought everyone advised against shooting lower than 1/200
> 
> 
> "ABABYSEAN SAID "Set your camera to 1/40, iso 400, and F4
> 
> Tell your little sweet girl to dance, jump, play some music get her into it, and then put your flash, point it about 75 degrees behind you, you can use TTL. This will have it bounce off the wall behind you and fall nice onto her.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need to know why I said to try those... You are going to shoot a toy, something that is NOT moving. You are going to expose the photo with flash... Flash FREEZES motion.
> 
> Do it with the toy, then have your daughter jump and dance and spin around in a room, use the same settings, bounce the flash like I said, 75 degree behing you off a wall.... have her jump, spin in a circle... just do it.  Dont be inches from her, fill the frame with the room.  If you are outside, using 1/40th of a second with kids is a big NO!  but when you are using flash to expose the photo, well just give it a try.
> 
> I really think you should honestly put the flash away until you have a grasp on what each part each setting does....  leave your kid at home, get an adult friend, like an hour before sunset, wrap her/him up real nice in a big winter coat if it is cold, and go shoot and try to expose the photo properly in camera, using your meter and histogram.
Click to expand...



The only time it will freeze motion is if there is no ambient light


----------



## ababysean

OMG! ok if she is in a dark room at night, if she puts her camera on 1/40  f4 iso 400 and takes a picture, I'd love to see how much ambient light comes in?  

I'm just having her do an exercise to see how bouncing the flash can diffuse the light vs pointing it straight at the kids face.

Again, let her do it and look at the images.  I could not understand how 1/40 would not get blur in the photo with my kid moving around everywhere UNTIL I tried it.

I honestly think OP should put up the flash until she understands shutter speed, ap, iso and how they affect the image before adding flash, but I do think this is a pretty neat exercise to understand that flash freezes motion IF it is used as the only exposure, I'm not talking about going outside and shooting 1/40 with the flash I'm talking about sitting on the couch at night inside....


----------



## OrionsByte

gsgary said:


> The only time it will freeze motion is if there is no ambient light



... or if your settings are not exposing enough of the ambient light to make a difference.

I haven't read this whole thread, and I haven't been lurking on this site enough recently to know what other drama has been going on in your other threads, but it seems to me like you (AMOMENT) are trying to drink from a fire hose.  Slow down!  The advice you're getting isn't contradictory, is contextual.  Shooting at f/5.6 makes perfect sense in one context, and is absolute nonsense in another.  1/40 may be too slow for some subjects, and too fast for others.  The way to find out which is which is trial and error, and the only way trial and error works is if you change _one_ variable at a time, so you can _directly_ observe and understand the effects of that _one_ variable.

Like I said I haven't read this whole thread and I don't really plan to, and I'm not going to go digging up your old threads, but from the little bits I've seen over the past couple weeks of skimming posts, I really think you'd do well to slow down.


----------



## mwcfarms

What's the k.i.s.s principle? Honestly curious.


----------



## tirediron

Keep It Simple Stupid


----------



## Dom6663

This thread is like my highschool lunchroom


----------



## MTVision

AMOMENT said:
			
		

> Meg, to be honest I was surprised that those settings did affect it because when in manual, I would think the ISO is overrided.  The pictures on the other site that I was referring to weren't with my speedlight because I didn't have it yet.  (the ones with the rollerskates)



The ones with the roller skates were shot at ISO 400. Now if your default ISO was set at ISO 6400 and the picture taken was at ISO 6400 then that's different. But that's not the case - you set your ISO to 400, the picture was taken at ISO 400, therefore the default ISO setting you are talking about has absolutely no effect at all.


----------



## unpopular

GeorgieGirl said:


> This is riduculous at this point.




This whole thing reminds me of elementary school, how there is that one girl who everyone picks on just because everyone picks on her. I had no problem with her, but I made fun of her all the same. She grew up to be a total babe.

IIRC her settings were high ISO and low sharpness. High ISO certainly will produce more noise - especially if not metered properly. For a newbie, it makes sense that the "sharpness" setting would produce sharper images - even if this is a bit of a misnomer. 

So I don't see where people get off saying that these settings have nothing to do with noise. They do. Of course if the image is well under exposed at ISO 50, you'll still get noise, and the bigger problem certainly is exposure, if that is the case.


----------



## gsgary

ababysean said:


> OMG! ok if she is in a dark room at night, if she puts her camera on 1/40  f4 iso 400 and takes a picture, I'd love to see how much ambient light comes in?
> 
> I'm just having her do an exercise to see how bouncing the flash can diffuse the light vs pointing it straight at the kids face.
> 
> Again, let her do it and look at the images.  I could not understand how 1/40 would not get blur in the photo with my kid moving around everywhere UNTIL I tried it.
> 
> I honestly think OP should put up the flash until she understands shutter speed, ap, iso and how they affect the image before adding flash, but I do think this is a pretty neat exercise to understand that flash freezes motion IF it is used as the only exposure, I'm not talking about going outside and shooting 1/40 with the flash I'm talking about sitting on the couch at night inside....




I don't know why people shoot their kid inside without good lighting equipment, get them outside where there is light but then you get "But it's cold outside" put a bloody coat on a bit of cold never hurt anyone


----------



## fjrabon

unpopular said:


> GeorgieGirl said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is riduculous at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This whole thing reminds me of elementary school, how there is that one girl who everyone picks on just because everyone picks on her. I had no problem with her, but I made fun of her all the same. She grew up to be a total babe.
> 
> IIRC her settings were high ISO and low sharpness. High ISO certainly will produce more noise - especially if not metered properly. For a newbie, it makes sense that the "sharpness" setting would produce sharper images - even if this is a bit of a misnomer.
> 
> So I don't see where people get off saying that these settings have nothing to do with noise. They do. Of course if the image is well under exposed at ISO 50, you'll still get noise, and the bigger problem certainly is exposure, if that is the case.
Click to expand...


well, there's a little more to it than that, I think.  I think the biggest issue is that over the last two months about once per week she posts "C&C did I get my focus right?" and they're essentially all the same photos, with the same issues.  Then finally most recently she posts "C&C did I get my focus right?" and low and behold she has added a speedlight cranked to the maximum and is nuking those poor kids heads off.  I think a lot of people just hit their limit at that point.  People had been, I think for an internet web forum, very patient with her for a long time.  Then she kind of flipped out at everybody, including a lot of people who were genuinely trying to help her.  It didn't help that she started drinking wine and seeming even crazier at one point.  

She seems like a genuinely nice woman who has just taken this website a little too personally, and is getting frustrated that it's not 'just happening' and she gets confused by stuff we talk about, because she doesn't know the basics well enough to really understand what a lot of people are saying to her clearly.  

She keeps talking about contradictory advice, and I'd say here, very little of what was given has been contradictory.  Sure, she was told different things for different situations, but that was because they were different situations with different issues.  

I think OP just needs to order up a few books and learn that way.  Internet forums aren't really helping her, I don't think.  It just leads to her getting defensive and missing the points, then others ridiculing her even more, then more defensiveness, then a massive "lol at all of you, you don't know what you're talking about, you think you're god's gift to photography, but you all contradict yourselves, I"m a great student and a great teacher and I'll be a great photographer."


----------



## MTVision

unpopular said:
			
		

> This whole thing reminds me of elementary school, how there is that one girl who everyone picks on just because everyone picks on her. I had no problem with her, but I made fun of her all the same. She grew up to be a total babe.
> 
> IIRC her settings were high ISO and low sharpness. High ISO certainly will produce more noise - especially if not metered properly. For a newbie, it makes sense that the "sharpness" setting would produce sharper images - even if this is a bit of a misnomer.
> 
> So I don't see where people get off saying that these settings have nothing to do with noise. They do. Of course if the image is well under exposed at ISO 50, you'll still get noise, and the bigger problem certainly is exposure, if that is the case.



If her default ISO was set at 3200 but she changed the ISO to 400 and took the picture her default setting of 3200 was the reason her pictures were noisy (even though the exif data says ISO 400).  That doesn't really make sense to me - maybe I'm wrong. And as far as I knew the sharpness setting in-camera doesn't affect the RAW file.


----------



## PhotoWrangler

Dom6663 said:


> This thread is like my highschool lunchroom




I think I smell the lunchlady too. Oh wait no.... that was me. Sorry guys.


----------



## unpopular

MTVision said:


> And as far as I knew the sharpness setting in-camera doesn't affect the RAW file.



Oh. She's shooting RAW then? I assumed that the comment was indicating JPEG. But you're right. At ISO 400 noise shouldn't be an issue until after PP.

Either way. I think people are being a little harsh here, for no other reason than everyone else is being harsh.


----------



## MTVision

unpopular said:
			
		

> Oh. She's shooting RAW then? I assumed that the comment was indicating JPEG.
> 
> Either way. I think people are being a little harsh here, for no other reason than everyone else is being harsh.



I wasn't trying to be harsh or mean to her. I was just trying to explain that those settings aren't the issues. I don't think I was being bitchy to her, but if I was that wasn't my intention at all.....


----------



## cgipson1

I just got tired of the BS!


----------



## Dom6663

ChristopherCoy said:
			
		

> I think I smell the lunchlady too. Oh wait no.... that was me. Sorry guys.



Take that back! My lunch ladies are very kind individuals!

Edit: I don't know what im asking you to take back, that lunch ladies have a distinct smell I suppose.

Anyway back to thread! Really, this thread is like a who can pee the furthest competition between a few individuals.


----------



## unpopular

I remember in like 5th grade we had this super sexy lunch lady who would clean the tables. My friends (never me of course!) used to throw bits of shredded cheese on the table so that we could look down her blouse.

She'd seem annoyed, though I doubt she ever knew our true prepubescent intentions.


----------



## zcar21

12 pages of more drama?


----------



## LightSpeed

The problem I see here more than any damn thing else is, she has a camera.
She can sit back and test and practice with it all day long and see what it's doing and how different settings effect different situations.
Secondly: I wrote her a letter suggesting she USE APERTURE PRIORITY and make note of what the camera does.
This way she doesn't have to worry with metering her light and can control it with a PLUS or MINUS - 3, or whatever.
I felt this would be a good first step for a beginner, in order to understand the balancing act that is photography.
Rather than jumping right into more complicated matters of photography, such as speed lights, high speed sync, bouncing light and all that other good stuff.
That can come later.

Anyway, never mind. Looks like she chose to flush that advice down the toilet too. But really , I was only trying to help.

Soooo, she's taken her beating in this thread. She hasn't run away, which I LIKE. Maybe it's time to lay off her a bit?
I mean, I'm not demanding anything here. And those of you who chose not to, that's up to you.
She's just a girl with a camera trying to learn to use it. Yes she went over board a bit which has been pointed out by many, including myself.
I do that too in the event no one noticed. But I think I already explained what an arrogant SOB I can be.
And I enjoy going round and round with some of you. Especially Gipson and Gary. As much as I hate to admit it, I enjoy bickering with Tyler too.
Christmas is coming, and I think in that spirit, I'll show her a bit of good will. She's just a girl.

After Christmas, I'll probably have to blast her again for being Ms. Smarty Pants.


----------



## thereyougo!

LightSpeed said:


> The problem I see here more than any damn thing else is, she has a camera.
> She can sit back and test and practice with it all day long and see what it's doing and how different settings effect different situations.
> Secondly: I wrote her a letter suggesting she USE APERTURE PRIORITY and make note of what the camera does.
> This way she doesn't have to worry with metering her light and can control it with a PLUS or MINUS - 3, or whatever.
> I felt this would be a good first step for a beginner, in order to understand the balancing act that is photography.
> Rather than jumping right into more complicated matters of photography, such as speed lights, high speed sync, bouncing light and all that other good stuff.
> That can come later.
> 
> Anyway, never mind. Looks like she chose to flush that advice down the toilet too. But really , I was only trying to help.
> 
> Soooo, she's taken her beating in this thread. She hasn't run away, which I LIKE. Maybe it's time to lay off her a bit?
> I mean, I'm not demanding anything here. And those of you who chose not to, that's up to you.
> She's just a girl with a camera trying to learn to use it. Yes she went over board a bit which has been pointed out by many, including myself.
> I do that too in the event no one noticed. But I think I already explained what an arrogant SOB I can be.
> And I enjoy going round and round with some of you. Especially Gipson and Gary. As much as I hate to admit it, I enjoy bickering with Tyler too.
> Christmas is coming, and I think in that spirit, I'll show her a bit of good will. She's just a girl.
> 
> After Christmas, I'll probably have to blast her again for being Ms. Smarty Pants.



I agree with much of this.  Shooting in manual is tough, and I'll often shoot in Av before shooting manual to see what settings my camera gives me and see if I like the results.  I then adapt it to something I like more. Unless the shot I took in Av is well wide of the mark, I keep the shot so I can see it before I convert it from RAW as the preview on the LCD is just a guide.


----------



## mwcfarms

I like how you said she's just a girl twice lol . I'd smack you with a trout if tpf had that option just for all the ladies on here!


----------



## Sonoma

mwcfarms said:


> I like how you said she's just a girl twice lol . I'd smack you with a trout if tpf had that option just for all the ladies on here!



Here you go.........


----------



## LightSpeed

Trout smacking is my favorite sport


----------



## unpopular

thereyougo! said:


> I agree with much of this.  Shooting in manual is tough




My first camera was a Yashicamat 124G and Nikon FM, no AE there. A lot of people learned without AE. Basic exposure control and meter function shouldn't be an advanced topic, and I find it amazing how many professionals there are who haven't the slightest idea of what a light meter does.


----------



## tirediron

unpopular said:


> ... I find it amazing how many professionals there are who haven't the slightest idea of what a light meter does.


"Middle grey, what's that?"


----------



## Sonoma

unpopular said:


> My first camera was a Yashicamat 124G and Nikon FM, no AE there. A lot of people learned without AE. Basic exposure control and meter function shouldn't be an advanced topic, and I find it amazing how many professionals there are who haven't the slightest idea of what a light meter does.



This was my first camera.






Seriously!!


----------



## blackrose89

When there are over 180 posts, and when you view the thread there are photos of people being smacked with a trout, you know something has gone horribly wrong!! :lmao:


----------



## mwcfarms

Haha but we are just girls so ......


----------



## LightSpeed

blackrose89 said:


> When there are over 180 posts, and when you view the thread there are photos of people being smacked with a trout, you know something has gone horribly wrong!! :lmao:





Pay no attention to it BlackRose.
Apparently , some of the older GRANNIES here took offense to the use of the term " Girl."


----------



## mwcfarms

Nope no offense at all it was the phrase "just a girl" which was delivered twice and once right upon your closing sentence. My sense of humor finds that amusing! As being referred to as granny well hehe I can appreciate that as well.


----------



## LightSpeed

mwcfarms said:


> Nope no offense at all it was the phrase "just a girl" which was delivered twice and once right upon your closing sentence. My sense of humor finds that amusing! As being referred to as granny well hehe I can appreciate that as well.


LOL. I'm just messin with you


----------



## unpopular

Sonoma said:


> unpopular said:
> 
> 
> 
> My first camera was a Yashicamat 124G and Nikon FM, no AE there. A lot of people learned without AE. Basic exposure control and meter function shouldn't be an advanced topic, and I find it amazing how many professionals there are who haven't the slightest idea of what a light meter does.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was my first camera.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously!!
Click to expand...


Flashbulbs are awesome!


----------



## GeorgieGirl

Is that one of those Flash CUBES???? One of those things that would spin around on top of a camera?


----------



## tirediron

Nope, that's a flash _*bulb*_!

Flash cube


----------



## unpopular

Bulbs are seriously awesome. I keep meaning to get some big Type-S bulbs to play with, but never have gotten around to it. Flashbulbs are so ultimate.


----------



## tirediron

unpopular said:


> ... Flashbulbs are _*so ultimate*_.


----------



## cgipson1

GeorgieGirl said:


> Is that one of those Flash CUBES???? One of those things that would spin around on top of a camera?



God, I feel OLD!  lol!


----------



## tirediron

cgipson1 said:


> GeorgieGirl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is that one of those Flash CUBES???? One of those things that would spin around on top of a camera?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> God, I feel OLD! lol!
Click to expand...

Aren't you?


----------



## blackrose89

Just two more replies after mine and we make 200.


----------



## cgipson1

tirediron said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GeorgieGirl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is that one of those Flash CUBES???? One of those things that would spin around on top of a camera?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> God, I feel OLD! lol!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Aren't you?
Click to expand...


Only if you count remembering buying those darn little flash cubes for a little 110 I had as a kid... and lots of Polaroid film also (I asked for a Polaroid camera for Xmas one year....)


----------



## unpopular

^^ Hey I used flash bulbs with my Polaroid 250 ... but then I ran out


----------



## cgipson1

unpopular said:


> ^^ Hey I used flash bulbs with my Polaroid 250 ... but then I ran out



I am pretty sure what I had was a ColorPack IV..  one of the early hardbody Polaroids... got it around 69 I think.... had fun with that darn thing!  Still have some of the prints...


----------



## LightSpeed

blackrose89 said:


> Just two more replies after mine and we make 200.




When you get as old as Gipson, you stop counting after 75.


----------



## unpopular

The 250 is my favorite Polaroid camera, had a great Zeiss rangefinder on it. Shot a lot of 669 and some 665. I used to carry around a tupperware full of hypoclear and a Yankee tank insert to keep the negatives moist until I could get them dry.

Unfortunately, this is the only Polaroid I have that survived. Originally scanned from the negative:







Typical Rockport College/MPW stuff.


----------



## unpopular

OH! And remember those little timers on the back? Did they ever keep accurate time?

"I swear it was going faster 15 seconds ago .. oh crap, it stopped" LOL


----------



## Derrel

"*One thousand one, one thousand two,one thousand three, one thousand four,one thousand five, one thousand six..."*


----------



## unpopular

*"One Thousand seven, one thousand nine, one thousand nine .... crap"*

and this is why I prefer Mississippi.


----------



## thereyougo!

unpopular said:


> thereyougo! said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with much of this.  Shooting in manual is tough
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My first camera was a Yashicamat 124G and Nikon FM, no AE there. A lot of people learned without AE. Basic exposure control and meter function shouldn't be an advanced topic, and I find it amazing how many professionals there are who haven't the slightest idea of what a light meter does.
Click to expand...

True.  I bought a second hand Minolta Light meter, and it's a good back up for my Pentax's meter.


----------



## COLTSFANATIC1

Does anyone even remember what this thread is about. lol


----------



## unpopular

flashbulbs and polaroids?


----------



## ababysean

bump?


----------



## cgipson1

ababysean said:


> bump?



I can't believe it! A BUMP for this thread! lol! Did you have a glass of wine, ABabySean?


----------



## Sonoma

ababysean said:


> bump?



Does that say "bump" or "dump"?


----------



## eUgalde13

Hey everybody, how's it going?

Sent from my iPhone using PhotographyForum app


----------



## eUgalde13

eUgalde13 said:
			
		

> Hey everybody, how's it going?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PhotographyForum app



Oops my bad, I thought I was in the chat room :/

Sent from my iPhone using PhotographyForum app


----------



## gsgary

Only 5 to go


----------



## Tee

I hope this thread isn't locked.  It can serve as a catch all.


----------



## RebeccaAPhotography

SCraig said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rexbobcat said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... It is that newbies come here expecting to be seen as photographic prodigies, and when they realize that the work they put up isn't _quite _as good as they thought...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not so sure that it's a case of assuming that they are photographic prodigies, but rather that they have no concept of how much there is to know, and that there's a LOT more to getting a top-notch image than just turning your brand-new, Best-Buy DSLR to 'Green box' mode and snapping away. I've been doing this for 30 years and I still learn something new almost every day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well said. That's why I think it's so amusing when people post "I just got my camera" and "I'm ready to go professional" in the same post. Some people honestly and truly have no idea how much there is to learn. As long as "Automatic" is available to them they are ready to go pro. I've only been around this forum a few weeks so I can only imagine how many "Pros" will show up a few days after Christmas.
Click to expand...


I will DEF say that I WAS one of those NIAVE ones!!! and I thank everyone on this forum who opened my eyes up!! I had first come on to this forum with only taking a lot ofphotos never really studied photography! I was charging people to take photos! Key word WAS!!!! I now ask friends and  friends of friends to photograph them so I am not just photographing my son!  A friend of mine does weddings she lets me be her assitant so I can learn that way. 

I thought my photos looked good and like soo so so many others of course your friendsa nd family tell you they look great! I LOVE to post photos here and like MTVision (/I think it was her who mentioned it) that this girl is damn lucky in WHO she gets CC from!! There are people here who I could name that I WISH and hope each time I post photos that they would cc me! Your lucky in who ARE commenting on what you post! 

SLOW DOWN! I had posted a few posts and the CC i got back was SLOW DOWN!! And you know what once I did! I LEARNED so much more! Its not going to come at once and stop focusing so intently (sp) on one thing like focus! I can tell you that it annoys a lot of people! Change things up!


----------



## Bitter Jeweler




----------



## camz

Thread of the month?!


----------



## Bitter Jeweler




----------



## unpopular

RebeccaAPhotography said:


> SCraig said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not so sure that it's a case of assuming that they are photographic prodigies, but rather that they have no concept of how much there is to know, and that there's a LOT more to getting a top-notch image than just turning your brand-new, Best-Buy DSLR to 'Green box' mode and snapping away. I've been doing this for 30 years and I still learn something new almost every day.
> 
> 
> 
> Well said. That's why I think it's so amusing when people post "I just got my camera" and "I'm ready to go professional" in the same post. Some people honestly and truly have no idea how much there is to learn. As long as "Automatic" is available to them they are ready to go pro. I've only been around this forum a few weeks so I can only imagine how many "Pros" will show up a few days after Christmas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I will DEF say that I WAS one of those NIAVE ones!!! and I thank everyone on this forum who opened my eyes up!! I had first come on to this forum with only taking a lot ofphotos never really studied photography! I was charging people to take photos! Key word WAS!!!! I now ask friends and  friends of friends to photograph them so I am not just photographing my son!  A friend of mine does weddings she lets me be her assitant so I can learn that way.
> 
> I thought my photos looked good and like soo so so many others of course your friendsa nd family tell you they look great! I LOVE to post photos here and like MTVision (/I think it was her who mentioned it) that this girl is damn lucky in WHO she gets CC from!! There are people here who I could name that I WISH and hope each time I post photos that they would cc me! Your lucky in who ARE commenting on what you post!
> 
> SLOW DOWN! I had posted a few posts and the CC i got back was SLOW DOWN!! And you know what once I did! I LEARNED so much more! Its not going to come at once and stop focusing so intently (sp) on one thing like focus! I can tell you that it annoys a lot of people! Change things up!
Click to expand...


Please stay on topic.


----------



## RebeccaAPhotography

ROFL! Oooops I strayed my bad lol


----------



## Dom6663

Bitter Jeweler said:


>


----------



## unpopular

I DID IT! I MASTERED PHOTOGRAPHY!


----------



## Dom6663

unpopular said:


> I DID IT! I MASTERED PHOTOGRAPHY!



LOOK AT THAT CREAMALICIOUS BOKEH! The contrast, the depth of field, THE COMPOSITION. Truly a masterpiece, a marvel of our times! Perhaps a statement about socioeconomics in todays consumerist society? No, its a statement of the parallels of technology and human function. Yes, the buttons of the keyboard represent labor, and the struggling work force. But the background of the keyboard represents technological capabilities, CAUSING the OBSCENE depravities in todays work force, due to many jobs being automated now.

Never has an image erected such thought, you sir are truly a social artist.


----------



## unpopular

pfft wahtever. I just stopped using manual exposure.


----------



## mc1979

mc1979 said:


> Oh boy, this is probably going to get ugly.



I told ya so...


----------



## unpopular

Does silly come after ugly?


----------



## mc1979

I don't think there are enough words to describe this thread   :smileys:


----------



## analog.universe

unpopular said:


> Does silly come after ugly?



Thankfully silly is winning out, they were neck and neck for a little while though


----------



## unpopular

OMG THE SUN!!!!!!!!!! Charging batteries!!!!!


----------



## Bitter Jeweler




----------



## unpopular

... he does kind of look like me, and in the 90's I did wear a LOT of striped shirts. Though overalls weren't my thing.


----------



## bazooka

Did I show up too late to get some "like's"?


----------



## unpopular

FREE LIKES FOR EVERYONE!


----------



## kundalini

I had a ham sandwich and some macaroni salad for lunch.  Does anyone like that?


----------



## unpopular

So long as you don't mind not feeling special.


----------



## eUgalde13




----------



## Bitter Jeweler

I'm on the far right.


----------



## unpopular

SWEET! My likes are up to around 10% ... who cares if I didn't actually earn any of them. Look at Bitter


----------



## mwcfarms

Damn not enough likes able to be given for that BJ.


----------



## e.rose

Hey... this sh!t is way too long for me to waste my time on...

Can someone give me the reader's digest version?


----------



## eUgalde13

Bitter Jeweler said:


> I'm on the far right.


 ROFL I can't even breathe!!! What's wrong with you hahaha


----------



## analog.universe

e.rose said:


> Hey... this sh!t is way too long for me to waste my time on...
> 
> Can someone give me the reader's digest version?



n00b complaining about bad attitudes incites bad attitudes + good information turns into bickering turns into tangent discussion turns into silliness vs. ugliness discussion turns into warrior cats turns into likefest turns into request for readers digest version turns into inaccurate and ommisive readers digest version turns into recursive thoughts about recursive thoughts


----------



## unpopular

e.rose said:


> Hey... this sh!t is way too long for me to waste my time on...
> 
> Can someone give me the reader's digest version?



What analog is trying to say is that flashbulbs rock. They're like a miniature explosion in your hand!


----------



## cgipson1

e.rose said:


> Hey... this sh!t is way too long for me to waste my time on...
> 
> Can someone give me the reader's digest version?



sure! Lady drinks wine! Opens 9000000th thread on "wants good photos"! Everybody got drunk and partied... and you missed it!


----------



## cgipson1

analog.universe said:


> e.rose said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey... this sh!t is way too long for me to waste my time on...
> 
> Can someone give me the reader's digest version?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> n00b complaining about bad attitudes incites bad attitudes + good information turns into bickering turns into tangent discussion turns into silliness vs. ugliness discussion turns into warrior cats turns into likefest turns into request for readers digest version turns into inaccurate and ommisive readers digest version turns into recursive thoughts about recursive thoughts
Click to expand...


I like my version better!


----------



## unpopular

Enough of this! I'm going out to take some pictures.


----------



## e.rose

analog.universe said:


> e.rose said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey... this sh!t is way too long for me to waste my time on...
> 
> Can someone give me the reader's digest version?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> n00b complaining about bad attitudes incites bad attitudes + good information turns into bickering turns into tangent discussion turns into silliness vs. ugliness discussion turns into warrior cats turns into likefest turns into request for readers digest version turns into inaccurate and ommisive readers digest version turns into recursive thoughts about recursive thoughts
Click to expand...

 


unpopular said:


> e.rose said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey... this sh!t is way too long for me to waste my time on...
> 
> Can someone give me the reader's digest version?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What analog is trying to say is that flashbulbs rock. They're like a miniature explosion in your hand!
Click to expand...

 


cgipson1 said:


> e.rose said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey... this sh!t is way too long for me to waste my time on...
> 
> Can someone give me the reader's digest version?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sure! Lady drinks wine! Opens 9000000th thread on "wants good photos"! Everybody got drunk and partied... and you missed it!
Click to expand...


Ooooh OOOOKAY!

I always miss the damn party.

Someone send out freakin' invitations next time! I'm not the type of person that just drives around to all of my friends' houses unannounced just in CASE they may be throwing a shindig.  I need someone to TELL me about these things!  :lmao:


----------



## Overread

I missed the party two! Bitter I'm blaming you for not being more motivated in handing out the invites - me, Erose and who knows who else has missed out!!

I just hope you don't miss the mark when it comes to the Christmas do!


----------



## Dao

I following this post since the beginning and force myself not to post anything in this thread.     But then I heard through the grapevine that we can get some "likes" here, is that true?


----------



## cgipson1

Dao said:


> I following this post since the beginning and force myself not to post anything in this thread.     But then I heard through the grapevine that we can get some "likes" here, is that true?



NO LIKES for YOU!      lol!


EDIT: Ooops... I gave you a like! Darn it!  :0


----------



## eUgalde13

In this episode I'm gonna show you how to make a "Tequila Sunrise"
Ingredients: 
2 msr  tequila
  orange juice
2 dash  grenadine syrup 

Instructions:
Pour tequila in a highball glass with ice, and top with orange juice. Stir. Add grenadine by tilting glass and pouring grenadine down side by flipping the bottle vertically very quickly. The grenadine should go straight to the bottom and then rise up slowly through the drink. Garnish stirrer, straw and cherry-orange.


----------



## bentcountershaft

e.rose said:


> Ooooh OOOOKAY!
> 
> I always miss the damn party.
> 
> Someone send out freakin' invitations next time! I'm not the type of person that just drives around to all of my friends' houses unannounced just in CASE they may be throwing a shindig.  I need someone to TELL me about these things!  :lmao:



I'm tentatively planning a meltdown later this week.  I haven't decided if I'll be cracking under pressure of all the "what camera should I buy" threads, losing it due to excessive use of selective coloring or just going all out, rabid, foaming at the mouth and abusive over pictures of Christmas trees.  I'll let you know the night before so you can prepare your rant properly.


----------



## e.rose

bentcountershaft said:


> e.rose said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ooooh OOOOKAY!
> 
> I always miss the damn party.
> 
> Someone send out freakin' invitations next time! I'm not the type of person that just drives around to all of my friends' houses unannounced just in CASE they may be throwing a shindig.  I need someone to TELL me about these things!  :lmao:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm tentatively planning a meltdown later this week.  I haven't decided if I'll be cracking under pressure of all the "what camera should I buy" threads, losing it due to excessive use of selective coloring or just going all out, rabid, foaming at the mouth and abusive over pictures of Christmas trees.  I'll let you know the night before so you can prepare your rant properly.
Click to expand...


I greatly appreciate your hospitality!  You've always been so good to me! :hug::


----------



## gsgary

Only 2 now, i said 20 pages


----------



## eUgalde13

No you said: 





			
				gsgary said:
			
		

> I'll come back on page 20


You've being here like 3 times before page 20 but I guess you're right, seems like if we are gonna hit the 20.


----------



## kundalini

eUgalde13 said:


> In this episode I'm gonna show you how to make a "Tequila Sunrise"........


Sorry, but you have that recipe completely wrong. I know from being a professional bartender at one time and a consumate tequila consumer.

Ingredients:
Tequila - I usually start off with a 1.75 litre measurement.
Place tequila in freezer until chilled
Shotglass
Pour tequila in shotglass and consume. For longevity, I do not advocate emptying shotglass all at once.
Repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat
Wake up naked on the back deck with the sun shining brightly in your face and holding a half emptied bag of Cheetos in one hand and an orange penis in the other. Hopefully it will be your own.


----------



## gsgary

eUgalde13 said:


> No you said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll come back on page 20
> 
> 
> 
> You've being here like 3 times before page 20 but I guess you're right, seems like if we are gonna hit the 20.
Click to expand...


Oh ******** i did :er: but couldn't keep away


----------



## cgipson1

K-Man.. WAY TMI!


----------



## eUgalde13

kundalini said:


> eUgalde13 said:
> 
> 
> 
> In this episode I'm gonna show you how to make a "Tequila Sunrise"........
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, but you have that recipe completely wrong. I know from being a professional bartender at one time and a consumate tequila consumer.  Ingredients: Tequila - I usually start off with a 1.75 litre measurement. Place tequila in freezer until chilled Shotglass Pour tequila in shotglass and consume. For longevity, I do not advocate emptying shotglass all at once. Repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat Wake up naked on the back deck holding with the sun shining brightly in your face and a half emptied bag of Cheetos in one hand and an orange penis in the other. Hopefully it will be your own.
Click to expand...

 Dang I knew I was missing something on my recipe!!


----------



## kundalini

cgipson1 said:


> K-Man.. WAY TMI!


Really?  I thought it was a public service to mention that holding your own bag of Cheetos was important.


----------



## Bitter Jeweler

unpopular said:


> SWEET! My likes are up to around 10% ... who cares if I didn't actually earn any of them. Look at Bitter


----------



## enzodm

Boys and girls, you seriously need a psychologist. 

So, where can we find one on this forum? Mmmm... wait... yes!!! We have one .


----------



## bazooka

I'm almost convinced she's performing a psychological experiment on us.  Some sort of morbid study on internet social degredation...


----------



## unpopular

Dao said:


> I following this post since the beginning and force myself not to post anything in this thread.     But then I heard through the grapevine that we can get some "likes" here, is that true?



For the low price of $19.95/year I will like every single one of your upcoming posts. Visit www.EatItBitterJewler.com for details. 

Now. On to my 105 frames that need editing ... blech.


----------



## Bitter Jeweler

unpopular said:


> Dao said:
> 
> 
> 
> I following this post since the beginning and force myself not to post anything in this thread.     But then I heard through the grapevine that we can get some "likes" here, is that true?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the low price of $19.95/year I will like every single one of your upcoming posts. Visit www.EatItBitterJewler.com for details.
> 
> Now. On to my 105 frames that need editing ... blech.
Click to expand...



Because, *www.EatItBitterJeweler.com*, was already taken.


----------



## cgipson1

bazooka said:


> I'm almost convinced she's performing a psychological experiment on us.  Some sort of morbid study on internet social degredation...



Ever dated a psych major? Whoooooo! Head games deluxe....  lol!


----------



## unpopular

Bitter Jeweler said:


> unpopular said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dao said:
> 
> 
> 
> I following this post since the beginning and force myself not to post anything in this thread.     But then I heard through the grapevine that we can get some "likes" here, is that true?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the low price of $19.95/year I will like every single one of your upcoming posts. Visit www.EatItBitterJewler.com for details.
> 
> Now. On to my 105 frames that need editing ... blech.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Because, *www.EatItBitterJeweler.com*, was already taken.
Click to expand...


stupid typos.


----------



## MLeeK

OH. MY. GOD. My husband thinks I've lost my damn mind laughing at you guys.


----------



## Derrel

MLeeK said:


> OH. MY. GOD. My husband thinks I've lost my damn mind laughing at you guys.



Probably a case of false causation. He's attributing it to "this forum", but it was doubtless lost someplace else. Happens all the time.


----------



## pgriz

MLeeK said:


> OH. MY. GOD. My husband thinks I've lost my damn mind laughing at you guys.



You see, that's the problem.  When you let your mind wander, it's supposed to be on a leash, so you can bring it back once it finished it's wandering.  Unfortunately, some minds tend to skit off at the slightest provocation, and it's a real chore finding them.  Especially messy if they got into some conceptual doo or tantalizing red herring.  Although some are fairly predictable and are found barking up the wrong tree.  So when you take it out for some exercise, remember the leash and don't allow it to go loose.


----------



## tirediron

Wow....


----------



## tirediron

MLeeK said:


> OH. MY. GOD. My husband thinks I've lost my damn mind laughing at you guys.


You had one left to lose????  Wow... HEY EVERYONE... pick out the new kid!


----------



## unpopular

pgriz said:


> You see, that's the problem.  When you let your mind wander, it's supposed to be on a leash



Shame on you irresponsible mind owners! Before long we'll be overrun by stray and feral minds.


----------



## SCraig

unpopular said:


> Shame on you irresponsible mind owners! Before long we'll be overrun by stray and feral minds.


I think we already are.  They are called K-I-D-S and as they mature they become A-D-O-L-E-S-C-E-N-T-S.


----------



## KmH

19 pages? :er:


----------



## cgipson1

Keith, I can't believe you of all people "bumped" this booger! lol! yep.. 19 pages of nonsense, wine and orange penises.....  :lmao:


----------



## Bitter Jeweler

It's only ten pages.


----------



## 2WheelPhoto

KmH said:


> 19 pages? :er:



of pure win


----------



## Dom6663

This thread is making me fail my photography class in highschool.

Instead of drymounting my prints, I spent an hour reading through this thread. I ended up using folded over scotch tape to "mount" them to a board.

I hope I get extra credit in the technical part of my photos, not the actual presentation itself.


----------



## cgipson1

Bitter Jeweler said:


> It's only ten pages.



Actually, if you only count the meaningful and relevant content..... what, half a page?  lol!


----------



## Tony S

Will somebody please shoot me?  ... I deserve it after reading all this.  lol

  Don't take anything on any internet forum seriously. Shoot, half the people are probably posting back and forth talking to themselves with different screen names.  I hate it when I argue with myself that way.


----------



## cgipson1

Tony S said:


> Will somebody please shoot me?  ... I deserve it after reading all this.  lol
> 
> Don't take anything on any internet forum seriously. Shoot, half the people are probably posting back and forth talking to themselves with different screen names.  I hate it when I argue with myself that way.



Heck, some of us argue with ourselves under a single screen name!


----------



## Bitter Jeweler

cgipson1 said:


> Bitter Jeweler said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's only ten pages.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, if you only count the meaningful and relevant content..... what, half a page?  lol!
Click to expand...


If you then discount the stuff that has been said repeatedly, in other threads...we'd be down to one post. If that even.


----------



## vtf

:shock:


----------



## mc1979

I'm wondering if the mods are actually doing the experiment on us! I can't believe this hasn't been locked! Then again, I guess no rules have been broken here. 
Do you think it'll make it to 300? I don't think I've ever seen so much bull sh!t in one thread, but it's pure gold!!!!!!
I'm wondering if it has scared the OP off for good?


----------



## unpopular

You can't polish a turd, unless it's a golden turd!


----------



## blackrose89

Polishing turd? I've been popping in this thread a few times, but not really reading through. Everytime I do it seems completely random, pics of people hitting each other with trout, polishing turds, is this just a contest for longest running thread?


----------



## unpopular




----------



## Bitter Jeweler

Did you have safe search on while searching for turds?


----------



## Derrel

unpopular said:


> You can't polish a turd, unless it's a golden turd!



Dude--you must have MISSED the Myth Busters episode where they took animal manure, aka "turds", and formed it into spheres, and then POLISHED THE TURDS until they were smooth, round, and shiny!!! I'm not kidding!!! Those two jokers, who on December 6th of this year, had an errant cannonball break through a cinder block wall at the SF PD bomb disposal range, go down a hill, then completely in and then through a house, across a six-lane roadway, and then through a house's wall, upstairs on a weird bounce and crashing through a bedroom where a man was sleeping, then out of the second  house, and into the front seat of a parked minivan--all within the confines of the city of San Francisco, CA. Yeah..those two knuckleheads--they POLISHED TURDS, and did a doggone fine job of it too!!


----------



## Kerbouchard

Wow.  First response to this thread, but I have to say thanks for some light hearted entertainment.  We went in for an Emergency C-Sec on Monday and haven't gotten a lot of sleep since then, but this thread has been entertaining so I appreciate it...FWIW, Mom and Little George are fine...My other one has the Chicken Pox so I'm stuck at home with her.  Oh, and the great news is...I've never had it....oh, well, I guess I don't need to have any more kids anyway....


----------



## blackrose89

So sad! So you're little girl can't even see her new baby brother???


----------



## Kerbouchard

blackrose89 said:


> So sad! So you're little girl can't even see her new baby brother???


  She's only two and a half.  She's seen him, but the main concern is with my father in law who has bone marrow cancer and is immunocompromised.

Just wanted to say I enjoyed seeing this thread play out over the last day or so....Hilarious, huh?

Oh, and I guess I'll take the advise of the experts and keep my daughter away from my newborn son and father in law, even if it means I have missed the first few days of my son's life...Again, Hilarious, huh?


----------



## unpopular

Bitter Jeweler said:


> Did you have safe search on while searching for turds?



LOL. I doubt it. But i was looking only for "Polished Turds"


----------



## Sonoma

Derrel said:


> unpopular said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can't polish a turd, unless it's a golden turd!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dude--you must have MISSED the Myth Busters episode where they took animal manure, aka "turds", and formed it into spheres, and then POLISHED THE TURDS until they were smooth, round, and shiny!!! I'm not kidding!!! Those two jokers, who on December 6th of this year, had an errant cannonball break through a cinder block wall at the SF PD bomb disposal range, go down a hill, then completely in and then through a house, across a six-lane roadway, and then through a house's wall, upstairs on a weird bounce and crashing through a bedroom where a man was sleeping, then out of the second  house, and into the front seat of a parked minivan--all within the confines of the city of San Francisco, CA. Yeah..those two knuckleheads--they POLISHED TURDS, and did a doggone fine job of it too!!
Click to expand...

 

Yea, but if they used horse turds they start out as "ROAD APPLES" and already somewhat polished so it doesn't count!  Sorry!


----------



## o hey tyler

This thread sucks.


----------



## MLeeK

Has this beat out the "what's the point..." thread yet? This one is sooo much better.


----------



## jwbryson1

For the love of God, man, LOCK this thread!  Thanks for your cooperation.  :thumbup:


----------



## Overread




----------

