# ...Where to begin...



## qy10

I know that I'm still fairly new at photography, but I would like to slowly ease into finding ways to have my photography become a secondary income for me. If things go well, perhaps it could become a primary source of income for me, but that would be a long ways off. I am trying to remain realistic.

My primary passions are canine photography (both pet as well as working dog photography) as well as nature photography. For the pet photography, I enjoy outdoor, natural lighting. I live in an area with a lot of pet owners and a lot of beautiful outdoor space to do photo shoots. I don't know of many pet photographers in the area, so I feel like there could be a decent market for it.

In addition, there has been a rise in sporting and working dog clubs. I actually have sporting and working dogs and belong to some of those clubs. So, one of my ideas was to reach out to the clubs for when they are hosting trials... I could photograph the dogs trialing and the owners could choose whether or not they wanted to purchase the photos. That is how it is normally done, in my experience.

Although I have this general idea of what I want to do, I feel like I'm kind of lost and not knowing where to start. A Facebook page? A website? Business cards? Flyers or brochures to leave with various dog training facilities/vet offices etc.... Building an online or hardcopy portfolio? And then there is the anxiety of, what if no one likes my photographs? What if I do a photo shoot with someone's animal and all the photos look like crap?

I know that I definitely want to upgrade some of my lenses a bit because I find that while I have these ideas for projects with my own dogs, I'm not always able to capture the photo that I want, but maybe that is just my inexperience shining through?

I don't know. Anyway, any guidance and/or feedback is great. How did everyone else get started? What were some of the little details that need to be figured out before diving in head-first? Any books or tutorials that could be recommended? All help welcome, haha!

Thanks.


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## waday

Can I suggest that, prior to thinking about money, you make it a hobby first? By that, I mean, hone your skills so that in a year, you'll look back at images you took now and you'll be embarrassed by them.


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## qy10

waday said:


> Can I suggest that, prior to thinking about money, you make it a hobby first? By that, I mean, hone your skills so that in a year, you'll look back at images you took now and you'll be embarrassed by them.



Oh, it has been a hobby of mine for a while now. I totally understand what you're saying though! Looking back at the photos I took a couple of years ago, it's laughable that I thought those pictures were the bomb. I have been working away at my photography for about 4 years now. At first, it was just my dogs and random things that I found interesting totally untouched and unedited. Then it turned into very minimal editing of photos (iPhoto editing) and slowly weeding out the photos that weren't meeting my standards anymore. Now, I am upgrading my gear and using Lightroom for editing my photos. Do I still have a long ways to go? Yup! But over the course of the 4 years, I have been becoming more and more passionate and involved in my photography. I have been trying to give myself weekly projects to challenge myself with. I have been trying to steadily raise the bar for myself to do what you just said, hone my skills.

I know that I still have a ways to go, but I do think that down the road, it could be something viable for me. It's just an idea that I am toying with. I know it's not going to be RIGHT NOW, but I'm just seeking more info so that, when the time comes, I might be better prepared? In the mean time, I will continue to hone my skills and will have a blast while doing it!


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## Designer

Build your portfolio using your own dogs primarily, and any friend's dog if they will let you.  Show your portfolio to the person in charge of a dog show, and ask if you can be their unofficial photographer.  Having permission is a huge step forward and gives you some credibility.  

Hand out your business card to anyone who asks or whose dog you've just photographed.  Your business card will have your web address on it.  Post the photos on your website kind of small to they don't just steal them.  Have affordable prices for prints so they will actually order them.  Do not give away electronic files to anyone.  

You are not ready to book individual photo sessions yet, so don't book any until you can consistently produce excellent photographs all the time.  Get a speedlight and learn how to use it for fill light, which is needed especially in bright sunlight. 

 Get the flash off your camera, triggered remotely, and have an assistant who knows where to hold the light for best effect, and without your having to tell him/her every little move to make.  Eventually you will "graduate" to multiple flash units in a studio setting, and then you can start booking individual private sessions.


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## qy10

Designer said:


> Build your portfolio using your own dogs primarily, and any friend's dog if they will let you.  Show your portfolio to the person in charge of a dog show, and ask if you can be their unofficial photographer.  Having permission is a huge step forward and gives you some credibility.
> 
> Hand out your business card to anyone who asks or whose dog you've just photographed.  Your business card will have your web address on it.  Post the photos on your website kind of small to they don't just steal them.  Have affordable prices for prints so they will actually order them.  Do not give away electronic files to anyone.
> 
> You are not ready to book individual photo sessions yet, so don't book any until you can consistently produce excellent photographs all the time.  Get a speedlight and learn how to use it for fill light, which is needed especially in bright sunlight.
> 
> Get the flash off your camera, triggered remotely, and have an assistant who knows where to hold the light for best effect, and without your having to tell him/her every little move to make.  Eventually you will "graduate" to multiple flash units in a studio setting, and then you can start booking individual private sessions.



Thank you. That breaks things down perfectly for me! It gives me really good direction.


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## KmH

If you want to make money doing photography - study salesmanship, accounting, marketing, promotion, and business management.
Business and people skills are more important than photography skills if you want to make money.

Starting a Photography Business


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## qy10

KmH said:


> If you want to make money doing photography - study salesmanship, accounting, marketing, promotion, and business management.
> Business and people skills are more important than photography skills if you want to make money.
> 
> Starting a Photography Business



Thank you!


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## manaheim

Just be aware that what you are trying to do is something GAZILLIONS of people are trying to do. Decent camera equipment has become very affordable and the general populace is generally not too picky about the quality of images they receive.

The average income for a FULL TIME photographer is somewhere around $25K.

In short, the average person can make more money at McDonald's.

Can you make money with photography? Hell yes. I've seen wedding photographers that make $10K per wedding. Can YOU? Statistically? Probably not.

However, if you do what KmH said... maybe. The difference between your average joe who says he's taking his $300 Nikon and making a business and the guy that pays the bills for his family is 90% business and 10% photography.


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## dennybeall

Some good advice and some great advice so far, you'll have to decide which is which. Dog shows usually have a Show Photographer who has a setup for taking photos of the winners. That slot is usually jealously guarded by both the photographer and the show staff..
You can take candids and sometimes get small fees for shooting video of a dog being shown. That's also almost totally gone due to all the iPhone cameras.
Sure the photos aren't up to professional levels BUT THE PEOPLE DON"T CARE, the photos are good enough!


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## tirediron

KmH said:


> If you want to make money doing photography - study salesmanship, accounting, marketing, promotion, and business management.
> Business and people skills are more important than photography skills if you want to make money.
> 
> Starting a Photography Business


If you REALLY want to make money with photography, sell your camera!


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## qy10

dennybeall said:


> Some good advice and some great advice so far, you'll have to decide which is which. Dog shows usually have a Show Photographer who has a setup for taking photos of the winners. That slot is usually jealously guarded by both the photographer and the show staff..
> You can take candids and sometimes get small fees for shooting video of a dog being shown. That's also almost totally gone due to all the iPhone cameras.
> Sure the photos aren't up to professional levels BUT THE PEOPLE DON"T CARE, the photos are good enough!



Oh, I'm not interested in conformation dog shows. Conformation is not my jam, haha. I'm interested in working and performance trials; lure coursing, dock diving, barn hunt, scent detection, Protection Sport etc.... I have been welcomed by a facility to come and practice taking photos at their dock diving events. They've even suggested that if my photos are good enough, they'd hire me to photograph their upcoming events. 

I know for myself, when I'm out on the field working my dog, I'd love for there to be someone there taking high quality photos. It's a service that I would definitely pay for.


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## qy10

tirediron said:


> KmH said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to make money doing photography - study salesmanship, accounting, marketing, promotion, and business management.
> Business and people skills are more important than photography skills if you want to make money.
> 
> Starting a Photography Business
> 
> 
> 
> If you REALLY want to make money with photography, sell your camera!
Click to expand...


No way. I love my camera. If I could even supplement what I spend on my dogs each month, I'd be happy, lol.


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## tirediron

qy10 said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KmH said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to make money doing photography - study salesmanship, accounting, marketing, promotion, and business management.
> Business and people skills are more important than photography skills if you want to make money.
> 
> Starting a Photography Business
> 
> 
> 
> If you REALLY want to make money with photography, sell your camera!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No way. I love my camera. If I could even supplement what I spend on my dogs each month, I'd be happy, lol.
Click to expand...

See the problem is, by the time you pay for insurance, business licenses, etc, you're probably $1000+ in the hole.  Making that back is definitely do-able, but it means a lot of hustle and you have make a grand or more before you even break even.  I would test the waters a bit first; try showing up at some events and shooting.  Find out if people really want your images and if they want them enough to pay for them before you make too many commitments.


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## qy10

tirediron said:


> qy10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KmH said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to make money doing photography - study salesmanship, accounting, marketing, promotion, and business management.
> Business and people skills are more important than photography skills if you want to make money.
> 
> Starting a Photography Business
> 
> 
> 
> If you REALLY want to make money with photography, sell your camera!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No way. I love my camera. If I could even supplement what I spend on my dogs each month, I'd be happy, lol.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> See the problem is, by the time you pay for insurance, business licenses, etc, you're probably $1000+ in the hole.  Making that back is definitely do-able, but it means a lot of hustle and you have make a grand or more before you even break even.  I would test the waters a bit first; try showing up at some events and shooting.  Find out if people really want your images and if they want them enough to pay for them before you make too many commitments.
Click to expand...


I understand everyone's point. It is similar to the whole, 'starving artist' thing and it's completely true! It's not easy, nor do I expect it to be easy. I agree 100% about getting out there and testing the waters. I plan on attending some dock diving events next week and this weekend I will be at a tracking seminar. I've also offered my services (free, of course) to the protection sport club that I am in. Luckily, the sporting/working dog community is pretty tight knit and pretty small, so if you make a good impression and your photography skills are decent, you could easily acquire a monopoly on that market. At least, you would where I live. I live in an area that is comprised of multiple smaller, rural communities, rather than a large city. So, from what I have seen, there really isn't much competition out there right now in terms of photography services for what I am proposing. 

One thing that I have on my side is that I did purchase an incorporated numbered business back in December. It was intended for something else, but the idea fell through. So, now I just have this numbered business that I should do something with. I have the numbered business for life, so I can choose if/when I want to do something with it. 

Ultimately, I'd be thrilled if photography could pay for my monthly dog food expenses, or some of my annual club dues etc... But I agree; get out and test the waters and see if its worth pursuing and of course, continue to hone my skills so that when/if the time comes to put all this into motion, I'm ready!


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## Designer

qy10 said:


> Ultimately, I'd be thrilled if photography could pay for my monthly dog food expenses, or some of my annual club dues etc...


I'm a "keep it even" kind of guy, and I would designate income from photography as going toward defraying photography expenses rather than dog food.  You're going to want/need better lenses, speedlight(s), RF triggers, modifiers, tripod, more memory cards, transportation expenses, entry fees, website, promotional materials, etc.  And if you treat this as a business, meticulous record-keeping is imperative.


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## Designer

Speaking of lenses; (and other gear) I don't remember reading what camera body and lenses you have, and if you own a speedlight and what other gear do you own?


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## qy10

Designer said:


> qy10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ultimately, I'd be thrilled if photography could pay for my monthly dog food expenses, or some of my annual club dues etc...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a "keep it even" kind of guy, and I would designate income from photography as going toward defraying photography expenses rather than dog food.  You're going to want/need better lenses, speedlight(s), RF triggers, modifiers, tripod, more memory cards, transportation expenses, entry fees, website, promotional materials, etc.  And if you treat this as a business, meticulous record-keeping is imperative.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the reminder. I do need another memory card, haha.  Very good point though. I hear ya, I'm at the point where I am in need of some new items and trying to figure out when/how I'm going to afford it is kind of daunting.


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## qy10

Designer said:


> Speaking of lenses; (and other gear) I don't remember reading what camera body and lenses you have, and if you own a speedlight and what other gear do you own?



Canon Rebel T5i body. My go-to lens is my 55-250mm, but I also have a 50mm lens. I don't think I have ever used the 50mm... it was a gift. Other than that, I do have a tripod, but I don't use it often. I find holding my camera is a lot more practical when my subject matter is constantly moving around. 

I am looking at buying a speedlight as well as another lens, but I haven't firmly decided on which lens or speedlight. I am at the point where I am just researching the different brands and which lenses are best suited for which type of photography etc... I'm hindered by a budget, which narrows things down somewhat for me, haha.


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## manaheim

It's also worth noting that by being free/cheap, or by "just wanting to pay for dog food" you are contributing to the exact problem of why photographers can't make any money.

There are a billion people out there who just are in it for "some folding cash" or "enough for a six pack of beer", or even "I can't charge for my services because I'm not good enough yet."

Guess what?  That average $25K salary?  Supply and demand. There's a ridiculous supply, so there's relatively little demand.

Many of us here are (or have been) guilty of it. I wanted to make money just to buy gear. Granted, I bought a lot of high-end gear and charged a fair bit to make it to that point, but even at my level... I was contributing to the problem.


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## qy10

manaheim said:


> It's also worth noting that by being free/cheap, or by "just wanting to pay for dog food" you are contributing to the exact problem of why photographers can't make any money.
> 
> There are a billion people out there who just are in it for "some folding cash" or "enough for a six pack of beer", or even "I can't charge for my services because I'm not good enough yet."
> 
> Guess what?  That average $25K salary?  Supply and demand. There's a ridiculous supply, so there's relatively little demand.
> 
> Many of us here are (or have been) guilty of it. I wanted to make money just to buy gear. Granted, I bought a lot of high-end gear and charged a fair bit to make it to that point, but even at my level... I was contributing to the problem.



I'm really not trying to add to any problems that exist and I understand what you're saying. Maybe the dog food thing was a bad example. The fact of the matter is that I own two working and performance canines and I'm passionate about the things I do with them. Their upkeep, care and activities cost me about 10-15,000/year. I'm also very passionate about my photography. I would love to combine the two into something that is viable and would allow me to continue participating in both.

I photograph my mom's dog for free and I've offered free service to my PSA club because I would really love to add to my portfolio as the breeds in my portfolio are very limited. 

That being said, if my club were to host a trial and other clubs from N. America came to compete, my photography would not be free. People would be expected to buy the photo of their dog if they wanted it.

I guess I see it more of a trade off... I'm taking photos of their dogs for free, but they're allowing me to practice on their dogs. So, if I don't get many usable shits, it's okay because it was all just for practice anyway. That was my thought process anyway.


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## gsgary

Take a look at one of the best, click on dog gods
Dog Gods - Tim Flach

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk


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## gsgary

qy10 said:


> manaheim said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's also worth noting that by being free/cheap, or by "just wanting to pay for dog food" you are contributing to the exact problem of why photographers can't make any money.
> 
> There are a billion people out there who just are in it for "some folding cash" or "enough for a six pack of beer", or even "I can't charge for my services because I'm not good enough yet."
> 
> Guess what?  That average $25K salary?  Supply and demand. There's a ridiculous supply, so there's relatively little demand.
> 
> Many of us here are (or have been) guilty of it. I wanted to make money just to buy gear. Granted, I bought a lot of high-end gear and charged a fair bit to make it to that point, but even at my level... I was contributing to the problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really not trying to add to any problems that exist and I understand what you're saying. Maybe the dog food thing was a bad example. The fact of the matter is that I own two working and performance canines and I'm passionate about the things I do with them. Their upkeep, care and activities cost me about 10-15,000/year. I'm also very passionate about my photography. I would love to combine the two into something that is viable and would allow me to continue participating in both.
> 
> I photograph my mom's dog for free and I've offered free service to my PSA club because I would really love to add to my portfolio as the breeds in my portfolio are very limited.
> 
> That being said, if my club were to host a trial and other clubs from N. America came to compete, my photography would not be free. People would be expected to buy the photo of their dog if they wanted it.
> 
> I guess I see it more of a trade off... I'm taking photos of their dogs for free, but they're allowing me to practice on their dogs. So, if I don't get many usable shits, it's okay because it was all just for practice anyway. That was my thought process anyway.
Click to expand...

There are millions wanting to do the same, I have set up studio's at dog shows and shot portraits and made £400 in a few hours but I was loosing my weekend's and my hobby turned into a chore so now it is just a hobby
One of mine from a show
Dog Vagas Portraits - Gary Clarke

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk


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## qy10

gsgary said:


> qy10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manaheim said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's also worth noting that by being free/cheap, or by "just wanting to pay for dog food" you are contributing to the exact problem of why photographers can't make any money.
> 
> There are a billion people out there who just are in it for "some folding cash" or "enough for a six pack of beer", or even "I can't charge for my services because I'm not good enough yet."
> 
> Guess what?  That average $25K salary?  Supply and demand. There's a ridiculous supply, so there's relatively little demand.
> 
> Many of us here are (or have been) guilty of it. I wanted to make money just to buy gear. Granted, I bought a lot of high-end gear and charged a fair bit to make it to that point, but even at my level... I was contributing to the problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really not trying to add to any problems that exist and I understand what you're saying. Maybe the dog food thing was a bad example. The fact of the matter is that I own two working and performance canines and I'm passionate about the things I do with them. Their upkeep, care and activities cost me about 10-15,000/year. I'm also very passionate about my photography. I would love to combine the two into something that is viable and would allow me to continue participating in both.
> 
> I photograph my mom's dog for free and I've offered free service to my PSA club because I would really love to add to my portfolio as the breeds in my portfolio are very limited.
> 
> That being said, if my club were to host a trial and other clubs from N. America came to compete, my photography would not be free. People would be expected to buy the photo of their dog if they wanted it.
> 
> I guess I see it more of a trade off... I'm taking photos of their dogs for free, but they're allowing me to practice on their dogs. So, if I don't get many usable shits, it's okay because it was all just for practice anyway. That was my thought process anyway.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are millions wanting to do the same, I have set up studio's at dog shows and shot portraits and made £400 in a few hours but I was loosing my weekend's and my hobby turned into a chore so now it is just a hobby
> One of mine from a show
> Dog Vagas Portraits - Gary Clarke
> 
> Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


Those are beautiful shots.


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## gsgary

qy10 said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> qy10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manaheim said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's also worth noting that by being free/cheap, or by "just wanting to pay for dog food" you are contributing to the exact problem of why photographers can't make any money.
> 
> There are a billion people out there who just are in it for "some folding cash" or "enough for a six pack of beer", or even "I can't charge for my services because I'm not good enough yet."
> 
> Guess what?  That average $25K salary?  Supply and demand. There's a ridiculous supply, so there's relatively little demand.
> 
> Many of us here are (or have been) guilty of it. I wanted to make money just to buy gear. Granted, I bought a lot of high-end gear and charged a fair bit to make it to that point, but even at my level... I was contributing to the problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really not trying to add to any problems that exist and I understand what you're saying. Maybe the dog food thing was a bad example. The fact of the matter is that I own two working and performance canines and I'm passionate about the things I do with them. Their upkeep, care and activities cost me about 10-15,000/year. I'm also very passionate about my photography. I would love to combine the two into something that is viable and would allow me to continue participating in both.
> 
> I photograph my mom's dog for free and I've offered free service to my PSA club because I would really love to add to my portfolio as the breeds in my portfolio are very limited.
> 
> That being said, if my club were to host a trial and other clubs from N. America came to compete, my photography would not be free. People would be expected to buy the photo of their dog if they wanted it.
> 
> I guess I see it more of a trade off... I'm taking photos of their dogs for free, but they're allowing me to practice on their dogs. So, if I don't get many usable shits, it's okay because it was all just for practice anyway. That was my thought process anyway.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are millions wanting to do the same, I have set up studio's at dog shows and shot portraits and made £400 in a few hours but I was loosing my weekend's and my hobby turned into a chore so now it is just a hobby
> One of mine from a show
> Dog Vagas Portraits - Gary Clarke
> 
> Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Those are beautiful shots.
Click to expand...

Thank you,  but it gets very boring using up your weekends just shooting dogs

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk


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## beagle100

gsgary said:


> qy10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manaheim said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's also worth noting that by being free/cheap, or by "just wanting to pay for dog food" you are contributing to the exact problem of why photographers can't make any money.
> 
> There are a billion people out there who just are in it for "some folding cash" or "enough for a six pack of beer", or even "I can't charge for my services because I'm not good enough yet."
> 
> Guess what?  That average $25K salary?  Supply and demand. There's a ridiculous supply, so there's relatively little demand.
> 
> Many of us here are (or have been) guilty of it. I wanted to make money just to buy gear. Granted, I bought a lot of high-end gear and charged a fair bit to make it to that point, but even at my level... I was contributing to the problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I photograph my mom's dog for free and I've offered free service to my PSA club because I would really love to add to my portfolio as the breeds in my portfolio are very limited.
> 
> That being said, if my club were to host a trial and other clubs from N. America came to compete, my photography would not be free. People would be expected to buy the photo of their dog if they wanted it.
> 
> I guess I see it more of a trade off... I'm taking photos of their dogs for free, but they're allowing me to practice on their dogs. So, if I don't get many usable shits, it's okay because it was all just for practice anyway. That was my thought process anyway.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are millions wanting to do the same, I have set up studio's at dog shows and shot portraits and made £400 in a few hours but I was loosing my weekend's and my hobby turned into a chore so now it is just a hobby
> One of mine from a show
> Dog Vagas Portraits - Gary Clarke
> 
> k
Click to expand...


nice K-9 portraits !


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