# Is this a worthwhile upgrade ?



## reaper7534 (Jan 13, 2013)

Going from a 450d to a 60d ?

The main type of photography that interest me are macro and moving objects (animals, cars, etc. )

From what I can see the upgrades from what I currently have are :

Better build quality
Slightly larger
Better viewfinder
Top LCD
Faster burst mode
More autofocus zones

Things that don't really matter to me are :

More megapixels
HD movie mode

This is my current crop of equipment

450d
18-55mm kit lens
50mm 1.8
Tamron 90mm macro
70-200mm f/4 L ( on the way )
battery grip
Yongnuo 468 II flash ( just ordered this, took a chance )

The price of the 60D is right in my ballpark, I had considered the t4i, but them I'm right at the smaller size again.

For what I'm looking to do, what's the recommendations.  I'm strictly recreational, but like a good picture as much as anyone.


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## spd (Jan 13, 2013)

7D?

If you're shooting moving cars, 7D will give faster burst rate, less shutter lag (if that's even measurable in real shooting), more cross point focus points and a 100% viewfinder...over the 60D.

Also, i think *not* having a flip out screen makes it better (one less thing to break) than a 60D...

I also have _no interest_ in the HD video side, and do wonder why they bother including it...especially as it doesn't work (no continuous focus)...:er:


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## SamiJoSchwirtz (Jan 13, 2013)

60D is phenomenal.


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## gw2424 (Jan 13, 2013)

Canon 5d Classic. Oh yeahhhh, that's an upgrade.

I want one myself!

FS: Canon 5D body, Sigma 50mm f/1.4, 17-40mm f/4L: For Sale and Wanted Forum: Digital Photography Review


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## rexbobcat (Jan 13, 2013)

spd said:
			
		

> I also have no interest in the HD video side, and do wonder why they bother including it...especially as it doesn't work (no continuous focus)...:er:



A large majority of feature films are made using rail focusing systems and manual focus.

Fixed gear bicycles aren't broken just because you can't switch gears. :/


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## spd (Jan 13, 2013)

rexbobcat said:


> spd said:
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I didn't say it was *broken*, i said it didn't work...and i stand by that.

A fixed gear bicycle may well be useful at a certain speed, but for all practical purposes, it doesn't work for the majority of people (hence why it's a specialist device).

That's why we have multi-geared bicycles, and that's why the 7D should never have been sold as HD movie capable, because for 99% of users, it just isn't!

If i want a pick up, i buy a pick up; i don't buy a station wagon, cut the rear roof off and weld up a rear bulkhead behind the seats just so i can use it as a pick up...


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## reaper7534 (Jan 13, 2013)

7d is a little more than I want to spend.  Of course if its a vast improvement, I'd save for it.


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## salalone (Jan 13, 2013)

Having shot with both in my tenure, yes, the 60D is an upgrade from the rebel series... absolutely. Is it where you'll want to end up?  Likely no, but it's a great camera for now.  It will handle ISO better, be easier to manipulate while shooting, and has higher fps.


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## rexbobcat (Jan 13, 2013)

spd said:
			
		

> I didn't say it was broken, i said it didn't work...and i stand by that.
> 
> A fixed gear bicycle may well be useful at a certain speed, but for all practical purposes, it doesn't work for the majority of people (hence why it's a specialist device).
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> ...



I don't understand what you mean by saying it doesn't work. It's not even built to work in the way you think it should...

99%? Is that an actual statistic sampled from a sizable population. A DSLR is not a camcorder. It's not supposed to be. It's not meant for Joe-Schmo to pick it up and make lazy, easy, home movies. Just because a tool doesn't cater to the lowest common denominator doesn't mean it doesn't work.

You missed the point Of my metaphor. You don't buy a fixed gear bicycle and then complain that you can't change gears.  

How is it not capable? Can you capture HD video with it? Yes. Is it quality video? Yes. Lacking the skill to use a piece of equipment to its fullest potential is not the fault of the manufacturer. It's not a matter of not working. It's a matter of knowing how to make it work. 

Your pickup analogy doesn't work because you don't lose any functionality of the DSLR by adapting it to video use. If I learn how to use my DSLR as a still camera and a video camera then, guess what...I don't have to spend twice the money buying a station wagon and a pickup.

Google a list of high-end productions made using the piece of equipment that doesn't work, which is a very misleading statement to say about something that has garnered international praise since its implementation.

Also; there was a time when video cameras didn't have autofocus, and I highly doubt that you would consider a Leica to not work just because it doesn't have 60+ autofocus points like the newest Canons.  Different tools, different functionalities, different applications. None of them are non-working unless they say they can do something but they can't (DSLRs can record quality HD video therefore...), which as far as I can tell isn't the case here. Man, I can't believe I just typed such a long paragraph explaining that.

But it's w/e, preaching to the choir.


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## 07Vios (Jan 13, 2013)

I'd say save up a little more and get the 7D. It's more suited for your main photography.


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## o hey tyler (Jan 13, 2013)

On top of what Dave has already said...

I shot a wedding where the videographer had 4 7D's, a vest based steadicam, external monitor, and two copies of every L zoom lens. He seemed to be pretty comfortable with using that setup. Seemed to work for his production. If you want to do video, DSLRs are highly capable. 

Also, as someone else stated, a 5D1 is a totally viable upgrade without breaking the bank.


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## gw2424 (Jan 14, 2013)

1d mark II?


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## hydroshock (Jan 14, 2013)

I'd suggest a used 1dsmk2 but I don't know your budget


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## hydroshock (Jan 14, 2013)

If your 14 and you can afford (or your parents) a 70-200 2.8L then a 1dsmk2 would do anything you need. Provided your not trying to make movies.


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## hydroshock (Jan 14, 2013)

Oops my bad, got confused with op, thought it was gw, nice flickr thread btw gw


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## spd (Jan 14, 2013)

rexbobcat said:


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Sorry, but straight out of the box, it just doesn't work...

As you rightly pointed out, it's a DSLR, NOT a video camera...


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## Dillard (Jan 14, 2013)

spd said:


> rexbobcat said:
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I'm not saying you're completely *wrong, *I'm saying you are incredibly opinionated and ill informed....and I stand by that.

I have a few friends that use dslr's for hd video capabilities and do an amazing job, ranging from paintball to weddings. Canon makes a seriously competitive line of video capable cameras, if you know how to use them. Maybe they don't work for you because you haven't learned how to operate them properly. But before you bash the entire concept, why don't you research the topic and see some amazing pieces of work that are all filmed on 7D/60D type cameras :thumbup:

Edit: You made mention to them not working "straight out of the box"....Once more, this is due to user error. A Ferrari isn't a race car off the lot. You must learn out to drive it like a race car before it can perform like one.


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## gw2424 (Jan 14, 2013)

^^^ Fight Club!!! lol


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## Dao (Jan 14, 2013)

spd said:


> Sorry, but straight out of the box, it just doesn't work...
> 
> As you rightly pointed out, it's a DSLR, NOT a video camera...





I think you may want to read more about  "Follow Focus"

Here is a quote from Wikipedia:

"A manual lens is usually a requisite for professional filmmaking. This is because some autofocus lens systems use lasers or infrared  beams to measure the distance between the lens and the subject. This  technique does not anticipate an actor stepping into the foreground of  the frame, nor can it focus on anything which is not in the center of  the frame. Passive Autofocus  (not needing lasers or infrared beams) systems cannot always adjust  quickly enough to sudden changes. The job of the focus puller then is to  adjust the focus onto different subjects as well as change, or (follow)  focus during movement of the camera onto the required subject, hence  the term."


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## spd (Jan 16, 2013)

I think you guys are missing the point i'm trying to make here...

I'm NOT arguing that you can't use a 7D for making movies, or that it isn't a very good device to use for film making.

I am just pointing out that, despite having video capability built in, it isn't much use for the layman without a significant investment in lenses and manual focus equipment...

So, as i said, out of the box with its lack of auto focus, it _is_ limited.


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## rexbobcat (Jan 16, 2013)

You keep watering down your original opinion.

It went from "doesn't work" to simply "limited to the layman."

Not that it matters, just a funny observation lol

The devil's in the details.


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## Dao (Jan 16, 2013)

spd said:


> I think you guys are missing the point i'm trying to make here...
> 
> I'm NOT arguing that you can't use a 7D for making movies, or that it isn't a very good device to use for film making.
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I think you really miss the point of why some people switch to DSLR as their main video camera.  Those who switch to DSLR for film making may turn off the autofocus even if it is available.   For average consumer who use a consumer video camera for event recording, autofocus maybe important to them especially when the Depth of Field is usually deep with those consumer video camera.    If you are shooting with shallow Depth of Field, it is better to use manual focus anyway.


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## reaper7534 (Jan 17, 2013)

On that note, Uncle Sam was kind and I'm selling the xsi for a good price, so 7d it is.


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## Dillard (Jan 17, 2013)

congrats, you'll be very pleased :thumbup:


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