# Should I drop the money to start a photo business?



## Fingtam (Jan 3, 2012)

Hi everyone, this is my first post on these forums.  
I fell in love with photography when I was in high  school. I bought a modest Nikon D40, which was the only DSLR I could  afford at the time, and accumulated a few lenses and other equipment  before I graduated. I would have loved to have pursued  photography more seriously, but good photography equipment is EXPENSIVE.  Especially when you're sixteen making minimum wage at your uncle's Bait  shop. 
Fast forward a few years, and I am now 22. I  am currently serving in the Marine Corps and I'm about to be deployed to  the Horn of Africa for about eight months. While I'm overseas I'll be  making extra pay for living in hazardous conditions, and obviously I  won't have much to blow my money on while I'm over there. Most guys come  back from deployments like this with about $20,000 and then buy a new  car or blow it all on booze and women.
Several of my closest friends are full time  photographers with no other source of income, and for the last few days  I've been formulating this idea in my head that I could get into the  business as a side job. So I went online, looked at some camera and lens  reviews, pulled up Microsoft Excel, and calculated that I could set  myself up with a pretty sweet set up of new equipment for about $13,000  that includes everything I need (ok, want). The specific  camera I'm thinking about is the Nikon D3.

I have  about six years of experience as a moderately active  photographer hobbyist. I've done two weddings for friends who were  getting married on a budget, one friend asked me to take his senior  pictures, and I'll have an occasional photo shoot with friends who were  just interested in having cool looking facebook pics. However, I don't  know if I have enough confidence in my photography to charge people who  are trusting me to capture their special moments to their satisfaction.  (Obviously, that is a skill that would come with  time.)
Anyways, I have a very secure full time job in  the military with most weekends off (between deployments), so I'm not  concerned about making enough money from photography to support myself.  While I'm in the states I will have the ability to invest sufficient  time and money into a photography side job without risking too much of  my financial future.
My current contract expires in June 2015  and I don't plan on re-enlisting. It would be great if by that time I  could develop the photography skills, and business savvy to make a full  time job of photography. I have no family, debt, or bills, so spending  12-15 thousand dollars cash after my deployment will be no problem for  me. And I feel like this could be an investment that  would actually end up making me more money in the end, as well as a  great opportunity to kick start a great career that I know I would love.  Or at least it could be a job that supports me through the rest of my  college.


So, with all that said, my question is this.  Obviously, I'm talking about a large sum of money here. Is it foolhardy  for me to consider putting so much money into equipment before I even  know what I'm getting myself into? I fully understand that all the  expensive cameras in the world won't make me a good photographer by  themselves. Would it be much wiser for me to buy the equipment little by  little? Honestly, I probably would not be motivated to pursue  photography as an occupation unless I started out fresh with the right equipment.

Thoughts? Comments?  Suggestions?


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## MLeeK (Jan 3, 2012)

I think you have thought it through rather thoroughly but... You also have some time during this deployment to seriously consider it some more. In that time I'd do some serious learning about the business side of this. That is the part that kills most photographers. Those of us whit a great skill with the camera usually aren't prepared for the business side of things. The military also doesn't give you any sense of the business side of things-they run business ass backwards or WORSE. 
I HIGHLY recommend subscribing to Todd Reichman's blog http://www.amantofish.com/ when it comes to the business sense side of things. 
You will have time to research everything business in the next few months. Talk with MANY photographers who have made it a business and those who have failed. Find out what it is from each of them that has fed into their success or failure. 
Get to know your CODB, pricing strategies... Learn MARKETING. BIG TIME. If you can get your hands on any college level marketing materials to read and learn while you are deployed? DO IT! Marketing is a GIANT key to every success story you will ever see. If a mediocre photographer can market themselves successfully they WILL succeed regardless of their skills. A phenomenal photographer who can't market for squat? Not going to make squat... 
Get to know the legal side of this business... Weddings can be a lawsuit waiting to happen if you don't CYA legally. Heck, even a portrait shoot can cost you thousands of dollars in a lawsuit if you don't CYA legally. 

You have looked at the equipment needed. Have you looked at professional memberships like PPA? What you will need in terms of insurance-liability, equipment and indemnity... What you will need in requirements for location... business licensing and sales tax, accounting... There is a LOT to this and a lot of expense to this business beyond equipment investment.

Do I think you should do it? Once you have done every possible bit of homework on the business requirements and expenses and it doesn't scare you sh!tless? ABSOLUTELY. It's an incredibly rewarding profession!!!


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## Kerbouchard (Jan 3, 2012)

I don't see anything wrong with spending deployment money on some nice gear.  I would recommend taking a few small business books with you, learn the in's and out's of the taxes, insurance, etc.

What I will say is that there are a 'huge' amount of 'professional' photographers who just bought a DSLR and are hanging out their shingle.  Most go out of business very quickly and most lose a ton of money.  Being a professional photographer is about 80% business sense, 15% editing/marketing/scheduling/paperwork, and about 5% taking photos.

You have to know every facet of it, from taxes to accounting to contracts...being able to take a decent photo helps, too.


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## MLeeK (Jan 3, 2012)

AND... Equipment holds value pretty well... You can sell it if this isn't your thing. Do you NEED to go with a D3? I'd consider going maybe with a D800 that is due out while you are gone. That way if you aren't over the moon and making it as a photographer you are able to sell it close to full value... I REALLY doubt you will!


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## petto (Jan 3, 2012)

^^link does not seem to work


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## MLeeK (Jan 3, 2012)

I fixed it... I had screwed it up!


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## Fingtam (Jan 3, 2012)

Thanks for the input. After rereading my original post, I realize it focuses on only equiptment and photography skills. To be more clear, I do understand that there is a business side of things. Like I said earlier, I have multiple very close friends who are proffesional photographers, and I've talked to them about things like advertising, business cards, and finding clients. That said, I'm sure there is much more to the business than I realize at the time (I hadn't even thought about insurance or lawsuits). 

Obviously, I won't be able to actually begin starting a business until late this year at the earliest, so I have quite a while to read up on the subject and think through all the details.  This won't be a problem because I read a LOT.
And like I said, I already have a steady job, so I have a margin for error. Even if I make ZERO income from photography for the first three years It wouldn't cause any financial problems for me. 

I hope I don't sound like I'm being defensive. I actually have really thick skin, and I'd much rather have everyone tell me every reason they think I'm an idiot than pretend to agree with me. I always appreciate C&C.


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## orljustin (Jan 4, 2012)

Every week, someone comes in that "loves" photography and wants to start a "business".  Read this:
http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/general-shop-talk/266193-noobs-guide-starting-business.html


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## imagemaker46 (Jan 4, 2012)

Personally I wouldn't even consider it at this point, but rather work on developing your skills, do some work on the side, and start to seriously think about where you are in 2014. Alot can happen in two years, the world of photography will have changed, as will the gear, what you buy now will be obsolete in two years.  Like I said, work on your skills with the gear you have now, learn the business side, which makes or breaks a photographer, and see where life is in two years.


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## MLeeK (Jan 4, 2012)

Fingtam said:


> Thanks for the input. After rereading my original post, I realize it focuses on only equiptment and photography skills. To be more clear, I do understand that there is a business side of things. Like I said earlier, I have multiple very close friends who are proffesional photographers, and I've talked to them about things like advertising, business cards, and finding clients. That said, I'm sure there is much more to the business than I realize at the time (I hadn't even thought about insurance or lawsuits).
> 
> Obviously, I won't be able to actually begin starting a business until late this year at the earliest, so I have quite a while to read up on the subject and think through all the details.  This won't be a problem because I read a LOT.
> And like I said, I already have a steady job, so I have a margin for error. Even if I make ZERO income from photography for the first three years It wouldn't cause any financial problems for me.
> ...



I think you're in a better position than most in your stage of the game. Like you said, you have a steady income and if you made nothing you'd be fine. Which is kind of what you have to plan for in any business for the first 3 to 5. I think with some education-which you have plenty of time to obtain-you won't be waiting that long to see an actual profit. Plus you have that income cushion to make a few mistakes and find out what works for you, personally. 
You are going to go forward with a solid plan. 
The NOOB guide to starting a business touches on some things I didn't mention but is really lacking in a lot of things that neither it nor I even began to touch on too... There is just so much. There are a million tangents that can go just from that little post, let alone any things that were left out. You are in the ideal position and planning well ahead of time. I think you'll make a damn good go at it. 
My personal belief is that it all starts with these few questions:
What do you want to make in $ doing this-not the get by or the starting out salary, the ideal?
How much time do you want to work per week? Weeks per year? 
Define your target market based on those two questions. 
Build your plan and business based on those answers.


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## MLeeK (Jan 4, 2012)

I highly suggest becoming a PPA member. There is SO much information available there-not to mention the equipment and indemnification trust insurance. As you aren't working in the field you could do the aspiring for now if that's all you want, but it's worth it's price at least twice over: Join PPA | Professional Photographers of America


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## tirediron (Jan 4, 2012)

$13,000.00 will certainly buy you a nice set-up, but it's barely half of what you'll need if you really want to be a professional (Note, since you don't specify a particular type of photography, I'll assume weddings/portraits/events).

D3s:         $5000 - Main body
D700:       $2000 - back-up body
Holy Trinity (14-24, 24 - 70, 70-200):  $7000
A couple of fast primes and second-body lenses:  $2000
Tripod:  $500
Speedlights (2 minimum):  $750
Studio lighting:  $2500
Software:  $2000 (Lightroom, CS5, plus business and accounting software)
Misc:  $2000

Take your 13K and put it into a D3s and holy trinity (By the way, contact Nikon USA and enquire about federal government employee pricing).  When I buy through Nikon Canada, I save between 15 and 30%), then spend a year or two working for someone, or get a "real" job and shoot on the side, build up clients, skills and equipment.


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## bazooka (Jan 4, 2012)

tirediron said:


> $13,000.00 will certainly buy you a nice set-up, but it's barely half of what you'll need if you really want to be a professional (Note, since you don't specify a particular type of photography, I'll assume weddings/portraits/events).
> 
> D3s: $5000 - Main body
> D700: $2000 - back-up body
> ...



I might point at that he hasn't specified what type of photography he is interested in doing... or at least I don't see it.  No need for lights if you are selling landscape....


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## tirediron (Jan 4, 2012)

bazooka said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> > $13,000.00 will certainly buy you a nice set-up, but it's barely half of what you'll need if you really want to be a professional (*Note, since you don't specify a particular type of photography, I'll assume weddings/portraits/events*).
> ...


Which is why I included the "I'll assume" line... but yes, fair comment.


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## MLeeK (Jan 4, 2012)

tirediron said:


> $13,000.00 will certainly buy you a nice set-up, but it's barely half of what you'll need if you really want to be a professional (Note, since you don't specify a particular type of photography, I'll assume weddings/portraits/events).
> 
> D3s:         $5000 - Main body
> D700:       $2000 - back-up body
> ...



Now wait... We all know that isn't the absolute necessity and that the OP CAN do it on 13K in equipment or less. That list is the ideals, It's not the absolute HAVE TO HAVE minimum-that is the absolute dream setup. Even if I had the money to start out with all of that I think I'd be a bit more frugal and careful with my purchases until I know I am successful. I can pretty easily whittle that down and still have an excellent setup. While assuming that he's got NO gear that is going to be transferred from his old kit.
How would I keep my costs under control with a Nikon gear list? 
Nikon D800 (expected release price) $2495
Nikon D7000 Back up $1400
Sigma 70-200 OS $1400
Sigma 24-70 OS $1000
Nikon 85mm f/1.8 $500
Nikon 35mm f/1.8 $200
Tokina 11-16 $650
SB910 $550
(3) YN-560 speedlites $225
Stands etc (4) $200
Tripod $200
Studio Lighting $500
Photoshop CS5/CS6 $700
Computer System $1500
Backdrop stand & backdrops 1000
Soft Boxes/modifiers etc. $300
Accounting/management thru StudioCloud's free single user

I am at $12825. It's not top of the line or EVERYTHING you would want or ever need, but it is definitely not bottom of the barrel garbage. It's GOOD lenses, GOOD camera bodies, good basic lighting, etc. 
I don't know many photographers who started out with even that much of GOOD gear in the beginning.


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## tirediron (Jan 4, 2012)

MLeeK said:
			
		

> Now wait... We all know that isn't the absolute necessity and that the OP CAN do it on 13K in equipment or less. That list is the ideals, It's not the absolute HAVE TO HAVE minimum-that is the absolute dream setup. Even if I had the money to start out with all of that I think I'd be a bit more frugal and careful with my purchases until I know I am successful. I can pretty easily whittle that down and still have an excellent setup. While assuming that he's got NO gear that is going to be transferred from his old kit.
> How would I keep my costs under control with a Nikon gear list?
> Nikon D800 (expected release price) $2495
> Nikon D7000 Back up $1400
> ...



Very true, and hence my recommendations to contact Nikon USA for government pricing and find an assistant's job first to learn, build skill and equipment.


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## MLeeK (Jan 4, 2012)

tirediron said:


> Very true, and hence my recommendations to contact Nikon USA for government pricing and find an assistant's job first to learn, build skill and equipment.



I have to admit, I kind of assumed a fairly decent amount of skill and mostly lack of confidence, whereas your advice may well be right. We haven't a clue as to the OP's abilities.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Jan 4, 2012)

I agree with MLEEK. 

Student discounts may be worth mention, there are deep discounts at BHPHOTO on sigma lens products, backdrops, stands and lighting mentioned. Plus computers (just bought an iMac right on the student gig!). And also we know adobe's deep student discounts. Hope i can stretch this college photography program out =)


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## tirediron (Jan 4, 2012)

Even if he's a stellar photographer, IMO, a couple of years working as a dog's body will give him an invaluable business education. We do need more info though.


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## MLeeK (Jan 4, 2012)

2WheelPhoto said:


> I agree with MLEEK.
> 
> Student discounts may be worth mention, there are deep discounts at BHPHOTO on sigma lens products, backdrops, stands and lighting mentioned. Plus computers (just bought an iMac right on the student gig!). And also we know adobe's deep student discounts. Hope i can stretch this college photography program out =)



And you can use your GI bill to enroll in a correspondence course or two in a business field while you are deployed... Win-WIN situation!


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## Fingtam (Jan 4, 2012)

Thanks for the input everyone.  I'll try to fill you all in with a little more info.  The type of photography I was looking into is weddings/portraits/events, although I would be open to getting into other areas of photography once I learn a little more and establish myself better. 
I find I am usually my harshest critic, but I DO NOT consider my photography skills stellar at the time being. Although, of the two weddings I've shot in the past, both brides kept telling me how much they loved loved loved their photos, and one even recommended me for her friend's wedding.  As of now I would feel comfortable charging clients to shoot family portraits or senior pictures, but not weddings or one time events in which I'm expected to capture their memories forever.   Also, I'm taking my D40 with me to Africa this year, and I'm planning on practicing a lot. 


As of right now I'm operating under the pretense that the only way to get good at something [running a business] is by doing it. I'm visualizing the beginning of my photography career as something I would take on slowly. As in low prices, only occasional jobs, and being upfront with clients about my lack of experience before they commit to choosing me.   Excepting the huge upfront expense of equipment I don't plan on jumping headfirst into this. I obviously wouldn't start by booking a wedding every weekend.  My goal is not to turn a profit right away but to start building and learning how to run a functional business that I fully understand the ins and outs of by around the time I get out of the Marine Corps.  

Now, as far as equiptment goes, I'm only leaning towards Nikon because that is what I currently use, and I have a few Nikon lenses. I suppose if there is ever a good time to switch teams it would be now before I dump a truckload of money into Nikon gear.  

I was seriously considering the D700 because I think that is all I need for now, but I figured it might be better for me just to shell out a little extra cash now and get a nicer camera that I can grow into as my skills develop more. I'll take into account the recommendations about the D800, or any others you think might fit me well. 
I already have several mid range lenses, but the $13,000 I mentioned earlier includes a:
Nikon 16-35mm f/4
Nikon 50mm f/1.4 AF-S
and a Nikon 70-200mm VR II

I'd also like to stress that the 13,000 isn't a max for me. It's just the number I got when I added up the price of all the toys I want.  I never saw that as a number that would buy me everything I need.
I'm also in a good financial position to regularly add to my arsenal after my initial investment (I live on base with free room and board, my car is paid off, I only have a cell phone bill, and I have no debt, so I'm free to spend my pay checks on whatever I want).


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## 2WheelPhoto (Jan 4, 2012)

FYI- The Sigma 50mm 1.4 is getting much better reviews than the Nikon. I'm about to throw one in my bag. It costs a little more and weighs a dash more but I'm running with it. Student discount applies to it too at bhphoto.com/edu


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## Fingtam (Jan 4, 2012)

Also, I read way more than the average 22 year old male. I will definitely be picking up for myself books on photography skills, business management, and marketing. And I do intend to take some college courses in the future too. By the way, All college that I take while I'm in the military is automatically free without even using my GI bill.


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## MacHoot (Jan 4, 2012)

A wise man once told me the easiest way to make money with your camera is to sell it.


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## MLeeK (Jan 4, 2012)

Fingtam said:


> Thanks for the input everyone.  I'll try to fill you all in with a little more info.  The type of photography I was looking into is weddings/portraits/events, although I would be open to getting into other areas of photography once I learn a little more and establish myself better.
> I find I am usually my harshest critic, but I DO NOT consider my photography skills stellar at the time being. Although, of the two weddings I've shot in the past, both brides kept telling me how much they loved loved loved their photos, and one even recommended me for her friend's wedding.  As of now I would feel comfortable charging clients to shoot family portraits or senior pictures, but not weddings or one time events in which I'm expected to capture their memories forever.   Also, I'm taking my D40 with me to Africa this year, and I'm planning on practicing a lot.
> 
> 
> ...


That can be a career killer. Really spend some time reading Todd Reichman's blog up there in that link. He is a brilliant business man and if you get a chance to actually talk about business with him (he's popped in a time or two) he has some incredibly good things to say and advice for those starting out. 
His blog will really give you some incredible thoughts and ideas for building your business plan.


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## KmH (Jan 4, 2012)

It hasn't changed in a long time.

About 85% of all new small businesses fail before they reach their 5th year in business. The #1 reason small businesses fail is because the business was making less money than was being spent to run the business. The problem usually being the business owner wasn't good enough at doing business.

Today, a full time photography business that does not have a studio requires about $120,000 a year in gross revenue for the business owner to make minimum wage after also paying for health/car insurance. 

If the business has a studio, figure you will need gross revenues of about $175,000 a year.

Here is another clue - the majority of a photography business owners time is spent doing business tasks, not photography tasks. Particularly those that do retail photography (weddings/portraits/events). Marketing and promotion plans have to be invented, developed, and implimented for various times of the year.

Currently the retail photography business is flooded with new photographers. Most, but by no means all, are clueless about both photography and business - so there is a lot of churn. 

It can be done. Good luck to you. :thumbup:


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## pgriz (Jan 5, 2012)

Lets do a thought exercise.  Well take Keiths number.  $120,000/yr  is $10,000 per month, or $2,500 per week.  For sake of discussion, lets say that is ONE engagement per week, grossing $2,500 (actual situation will obviously vary, but Im focusing on the effort required to get that weekly revenue, so bear with me).

Now, that $2,500 should be money in the bank.  Whats the gap between getting the job done and getting paid?  If you are lucky, very little.  Realistically, there may be anywhere from a couple of days to a couple of months between delivery of services and receipt of payment.  So, in this thought exercise, you did the job the previous week  (week -1), and were paid this week (week 0).

Now, how long did the job take?  Again, if youre well organized, you were able to do it the previous week (week -2).  And the contract to do this engagement was signed the week before (week -3).  Now this contract was initiated maybe two weeks before that when you found the client (or they found you), and you initiated the discussions (so, initial contact in week -5).

Now, the initial marketing done to get your client was done probably anywhere from a week to several months earlier.  So the seeds were planted maybe 8-9 weeks earlier (so start of marketing effort was around week -14).

Now lets play this forward.  In week -14, you put out your marketing materials (web site, door hangers, newspaper advertising, etc.).  Over the next month or two, you will get prospective clients coming out of the woodwork.  Not every prospect will be a paying client.  In fact, depending on the industry and region, you may have to meet and quote up to 20 prospects to get one paying client.  If you are lucky and very good in your marketing, that may be as little as 1 in 3.  So, in the worse case, you may need to meet up to 20 prospects to get the paying client that you collect from in week 0.

Note that we made a bunch of optimistic assumptions about how quickly a contract becomes actual revenue.  In reality, things rarely go smoothly.  The project scope changes.  The timing/schedule changes.  The customer may or may not be able to pay on time.  And while you are dealing with all this, you still have anywhere from three to twenty new prospects each week to qualify, meet, and quote.  You cant do this unless you are very, very well organized, and have some kind of contact management system in place.  You also cant dick around and spend lots of quality time with each prospect (well, you can, but you have to figure out how much is the right amount).  And, you have to meet people when THEY are available, not when you have time.

This discourse says that to get the revenue coming in on a more or less reliable fashion, you need a pipeline of prospects, signed contracts, work in progress, and accounts receivable.  Every part of the pipeline needs to be managed and followed up on.  And since this is the real world, stuff breaks down, cars stop working, clients lose their jobs, your computer gets a nasty virus, etc.  To keep things flowing more or less smoothly, you need backup, for equipment, for transportation, for you.

That is one reason why many startup businesses fail.  They havent geared up for the pipeline of effort required.  The second most common reason for failure is lack of working capital  your expenses are NOW, and your revenue may be out 10-15 weeks.  

So there are a number of things to track when youre in business.
a)    Number of responses to any marketing campaign.
b)   Percentage of responses converting to serious prospects.
c)   Percentage of prospects converting to contracts.
d)   Average time from contract to revenue.
e)   Percentage of revenue in default (late or non-paying).

There are other things to consider (revenue per contract, average net profit per contract, number of contracts needed each period to break even, etc.), but this is focusing on the upstream activities to get the revenue.  Isn't being your own boss just GREAT?!


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## 2WheelPhoto (Jan 5, 2012)

I like these charts to keep me in  weekend photog/hobbyis mod eeven though I'm a college photo student and invested a lot in equipment.

The "perception" of a photographer






The "reality"


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## Fingtam (Jan 5, 2012)

MLeeK said:


> Fingtam said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for the input everyone.  I'll try to fill you all in with a little more info.  The type of photography I was looking into is weddings/portraits/events, although I would be open to getting into other areas of photography once I learn a little more and establish myself better. I find I am usually my harshest critic, but I DO NOT consider my photography skills stellar at the time being. Although, of the two weddings I've shot in the past, both brides kept telling me how much they loved loved loved their photos, and one even recommended me for her friend's wedding.  As of now I would feel comfortable charging clients to shoot family portraits or senior pictures, but not weddings or one time events in which I'm expected to capture their memories forever.   Also, I'm taking my D40 with me to Africa this year, and I'm planning on practicing a lot. As of right now I'm operating under the pretense that the only way to get good at something [running a business] is by doing it. I'm visualizing the beginning of my photography career as something I would take on slowly. *As in low prices*, only occasional jobs, and being upfront with clients about my lack of experience before they commit to choosing me.   Excepting the huge upfront expense of equipment I don't plan on jumping headfirst into this. I obviously wouldn't start by booking a wedding every weekend.  My goal is not to turn a profit right away but to start building and learning how to run a functional business that I fully understand the ins and outs of by around the time I get out of the Marine Corps.  Now, as far as equiptment goes, I'm only leaning towards Nikon because that is what I currently use, and I have a few Nikon lenses. I suppose if there is ever a good time to switch teams it would be now before I dump a truckload of money into Nikon gear.  I was seriously considering the D700 because I think that is all I need for now, but I figured it might be better for me just to shell out a little extra cash now and get a nicer camera that I can grow into as my skills develop more. I'll take into account the recommendations about the D800, or any others you think might fit me well. I already have several mid range lenses, but the $13,000 I mentioned earlier includes a:Nikon 16-35mm f/4Nikon 50mm f/1.4 AF-Sand a Nikon 70-200mm VR III'd also like to stress that the 13,000 isn't a max for me. It's just the number I got when I added up the price of all the toys I want.  I never saw that as a number that would buy me everything I need.I'm also in a good financial position to regularly add to my arsenal after my initial investment (I live on base with free room and board, my car is paid off, I only have a cell phone bill, and I have no debt, so I'm free to spend my pay checks on whatever I want).
> ...


 Could you clarify that a bit? What exactly is the career killer?

Edit: Sorry, I just noticed you highlighted the "low prices" part. I understand a business obviously can't be run when prices are too low and a profit isn't being made. When I said that I was only referring to the very start up of the business to give me some time to get my feet wet, learn how to operate the business, and establish myself as a photographer. After the initial shock, and by the time I figure out what I'm doing I would increase my prices to something around the norm. 
Since I'm not dependent on photography for a living I figured it would just be a good way to get the first few clients without ripping them off.


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## MLeeK (Jan 5, 2012)

Its incredibly complicated, read Todd's blog from the get go first. Then we can get in deeper into the discussion. I will see if I can find the entry I am thinking of when I am not posting from my phone. Basically his theory is practice and learn until you are "good enough" to confidently sell your services. Then go all or go home. There is a lot more to it and Todd speaks and writes it well. If you are an avid reader it shouldn't take all that long to read thru most of it. There are a lot of entries, but look for the specific pricing strategy stuff for what I am talking about here.


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## KmH (Jan 5, 2012)

Increasing prices is one of the most difficult things amy business can do (does Netflix ring a bell?) , because most of your current customers will just find another photographer in their price comfort zone.

An axiom of business is that it costs 10 times more to attract a new customer, than it does to keep a current customer. But, kiss most of your current customer base goodby if you raise your prices, and plan for a drop in revenue until your 10 times more expensive marketing campaign starts generating those new customers.

Many retail photography businesses fail right there, because the photographer has insufficient routine networking contacts in the socio-economic community they need to target their marketing to.


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## Fingtam (Jan 5, 2012)

KmH said:


> Increasing prices is one of the most difficult things amy business can do (does Netflix ring a bell?) , because most of your current customers will just find another photographer in their price comfort zone.
> 
> An axiom of business is that it costs 10 times more to attract a new customer, than it does to keep a current customer. But, kiss most of your current customer base goodby if you raise your prices, and plan for a drop in revenue until your 10 times more expensive marketing campaign starts generating those new customers.
> 
> Many retail photography businesses fail right there, because the photographer has insufficient routine networking contacts in the socio-economic community they need to target their marketing to.



Wow, I hadn't thought much about that. But now that I think about it, there will have to be a time in my career when I drop ALL of my clients and need to start from scratch again. I'm stationed in North Carolina right now, but when my contract with the Marine Corps is over I will be going back to school in Minnesota.




Also, I have been reading Todd Reichman's blog since it was suggested, and its very interesting, but I don't think I've found the specific post MLeek suggested.


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## MLeeK (Jan 5, 2012)

Keith summarized MUCH of it well right there. 
Basically you want to define yourself, your style and go all of the way. I'll see if I can find the info I am talking about. It may have been a conversation in another forum that he and I are both members of also, but if it is he is more than likely to post the same info here for us too. I had thought it was on the blog as well. 

When you target a market who is willing to pay say $10 at the get go when your REAL end point target market is the one that will be paying $1000 you are undermining yourself to begin with. You have established yourself as a $10 product and the customers you HAVE don't want to pay $100 for something they used to get for $10. The $100 customers see you as a $10 product because that's what you are or were. 
You didn't see Gucci come on the scene with dollar store bags and shoes to get their start. They started out with a product and a price that matched their target market. They designed themselves as an exclusive, high end, high quality label right out of the gate. Because they did that their target market pays their exorbitant price gladly and the rest of us are scrambling on ebay to get either a good knock off or the real deal at a hell of a discount second hand. 
Create yourself and be what you ultimately want to be out of the gate. 
Part of what you are selling with photography as a professional portrait/wedding photographer is the luxury. Let's face it now-it IS a luxury item. Yes, everyone should have photographs. However, in order for me (or you or anyone else) to survive in this business we cannot charge anything remotely close to what Wal Mart Portrait Studio charges and even manage to pay the rent, let alone actually own a camera and a lens or two. We need to get paid and we need to pay our CODB/COG's out of that. That makes a professional photographer a luxury item. It also means you have to BE a luxury and that mindset is the KEY. 

I did not start out believing what I do now. I started out much the way you had thought to start out. I also barely paid the bills and I certainly wasn't even supporting myself in any way or my family. I stopped, thought, researched, learned and recreated myself, my service and my business completely. I am now our primary income most months. VA Disability is NOT all that hot for an income, let me tell you. And with the economy the way it is my husband's business is in the black, but not by enough to pay the grocery bill most of the time. 

I have no idea what your deployment schedule is, but I found I got an incredibly education from all of the years I attended WPPi in Las Vegas. It's in February every year and the classes offered are worth every second of the time and money I have spent to go. I learned an immense amount from the professionals teaching there. This year it's 2/16 thru 23rd. The main part of the convention being the 19th thru the 23rd. I am sure it's probably too late for you to attend this year and next may not be possible, but the following may well be on your radar. The Platform classes are a part of your registration fee. The master classes are an additional amount. THe platform classes are worth every cent of your registration if you don't have the budget for the masters. You WILL learn and be empowered with SO much just in the platform. I also get a coupon code for a discount registration every year, so if you are considering going let me know and I'll either pass it on or share my pass with someone. You can register 2 on one registration. Wedding Photography Courses | Photography Strategies

I know I mentioned before becoming an aspiring member of PPA. PPA also puts on a convention like WPPi every year and it is the same song and dance-EXTREMELY worth it. It's always after WPPi and it changes location every year. Like I said before, the membership to PPA alone opens up a wealth of information and education for you. I HIGHLY recommend it. I believe Todd is speaking/teaching at PPA's ImagingUSA convention this year. That alone would make it worth the trip for me!

I think some of the others here are members of NPPA and a few others I don't know nearly as much about too. If you have to choose one and only one, PPA is my first choice for someone in your shoes.


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