# 4x8 foam core board?



## misol

Where would you find this?  What would the approximate cost be in USD?

Thanks


----------



## ~Stella~

Try a craft store like Hobby Lobby or Michaels - kids use it for science fairs.


----------



## misol

thanks


----------



## farmerj

do you want 4X8 FEET or inches?

Inches, I would look into a hobby store.

Feet I would look into an art supply or home repair like Home Depot or Lowe's.


----------



## craig

Staples has the 32" x 40" foamcore in black or white. 3 packs are $22.98 or something reasonable. One of the few truths in photography: You can never have too much foamcore and it can never be too big.

Love & Bass


----------



## ~Stella~

My dollar store sells it in posterboard size which works just fine for my baby-sized model.  Also, for one dollar, I'm willing to *make* it work.


----------



## mrodgers

I can look out my office window at any given moment and see thousands of pounds of the stuff.  We make it :mrgreen:

Actually, not quite the stuff you guys are talking about.  We make molded EPP and EPE blocks 4x8, which are sold to skive down to sheets, but it's not the paper backed EPS stuff I assume you guys are talking about.

You can get 4x8 foot sheets of EPS used for insulated house sheathing at Lowes and Home Depot (shop Lowes, support my wife ).  I think it's the Owens Corning stuff that is pink and white.  The Dow brand is usually blue.  Also as mentioned, the dollar store has 24x30 inch sheets of 1/4 inch foam board which is the paperbacked EPS stuff for $1.  Walmart and various other stores usually have the Elmers foamboard in many colors for around $2-3.  They might be a bit larger than the 24x36, maybe 36x48, I'm not sure.

It appears that EPPHobbies.com is no longer (was an affiliated site of where I work.)  They sold sheets of low density molded EPP.  You can search out RC flying forums for info on molded EPP sheets as the RC hobby loves the stuff for scratch building light airplanes.  You'd also be supporting me because I don't know of any other company who molds the stuff other than the one I work for.  We just don't sell to the general public, only large quantity distributers who then skive it down to different thicknesses and sell.


----------



## ~Stella~

Note to self:  mrrodgers is *the* go-to guy for foam board.


----------



## jcolman

craig said:


> Staples has the 32" x 40" foamcore in black or white. 3 packs are $22.98 or something reasonable. One of the few truths in photography: You can never have too much foamcore and it can never be too big.
> 
> Love & Bass



I'll second this.  Foamcore is a lighting directors best friend.


----------



## Alerick

If you are wanting foam core to last, do not get it from hobby lobby. I used a lot of foam core in school and the hobby lobby foam core had cheaper foam and adhesive. It was a pain to cut and usually pealed apart. If you are going to get foam core I would suggest an art supplier.


----------



## mrodgers

Alerick said:


> If you are wanting foam core to last, do not get it from hobby lobby. I used a lot of foam core in school and the hobby lobby foam core had cheaper foam and adhesive. It was a pain to cut and usually pealed apart. If you are going to get foam core I would suggest an art supplier.


Hobby Lobby the craft store or Hobby Lobby the hobby store? This would be good as with the other hobby, RC, that paper can be a real pain in the you-know-what to peel off when you actually _want_ to peel it off.

Edit:  I didn't notice the 2nd post mentioned Hobby Lobby and mention craft store....


----------



## Alerick

to be honest I only thought there was only one type of Hobby Lobby but I guess I am talking about the craft store.


----------



## JerryPH

Depends on what you want to make.  If you want to make a nice "better bounce card", all you need is the 8.5 X 11 size, that is more than big enough.  I want to make a nicer one that is black on the outside and white inside.  I just bought 2 packs of 15 white and 15 black foamcore boards to make myself 3 custom DIY "bounce cards" (ok, I'll have a lot of spares... lol).

In the US or Canada, you can get the 8.5 X 11 size at Staples ("Bureau en Gros" in Quebec) or most hobby or artist's supply places.  I paid $15 for the 30 pieces, but only because where I bought them ("Omer des Seres", an artist supply store chain in Quebec), they sold them in packs of 15 each.  A little overkill in numbers, but I don't mind.  At least this way I can experiment with different shapes and sizes and see which I like best.


----------



## mrodgers

Alerick said:


> to be honest I only thought there was only one type of Hobby Lobby but I guess I am talking about the craft store.


That's funny because for several years I've looked at the hobby store website, talked and read about it on the RC forums, and someone mentioned the craft store one day.  I always thought there was only one type also, the hobby store 

Hobby Lobby - The craft store

Hobby-Lobby's RC Catalog of Radio Control Models, RC Airplanes, RC Helicopters, RC Boats! - The RC hobby store

:mrgreen:


----------



## Mike_E

If you are talking about Feet, go to Software Cinema | Photography and Photoshop Training - Tinkertubes and download the book for the plans to build a frame or two and stretch some cloth across it. You will then be able to store it when it's not in use.  I happened across a deal on some white satin that works great!!


----------



## misol

Wow I got alot of replies!  I was talking about feet.  I usually photograph small people (little kids) but have a big job this weekend with teenagers and need something larger.  Where I am shooting has pink and green walls!  So I need lots of white to try to counteract the walls.  I had read in several places about the 4'x8' foam core board, I thought it must be a standard ssize, but I had never seen it.  But I am not even sure it will fit in my car, I should go measure.  I like the idea of building one, but I am not really that crafty.  Maybe when I have more time


----------



## JerryPH

misol said:


> Where I am shooting has pink and green walls!  So I need lots of white to try to counteract the walls.



Wrong tool for the wrong effect.  

In a green room if you slap a white background and shoot off that, you still will get a lot of green colourcasting in the shot.

What you want to do is control your environment with light, not foamcore.

Overpower the ambient, and you can make any colour room any different colour you want.  Underpower the ambient and make it anything up to and including black if you want!


----------



## farmerj

For a reflector, I got the idea after watching a video off the prophoto blog.

The idea for clips and stands for the frame came from here.  The Tinker Tube pdf document

Make frames the size of "emergency" space blankets.  I think they are called more survival blankets than anything.  They would be collapsible, small, light weight and very portable.  The nice thing about these, they are made from mylar like material.  You can use mylar strips to create corners so you don't even have to use clips like this video.
 [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjOChmOVBm4"]like in this video[/ame].

I have a couple different space blankets already, I will put something together soon in how I made one of the blanket reflectors.

Now that you mention the color of the room and stuff.  Jerry brings up a good point.  Change the color of your lights.  Otherwise you will just cast colored light.

I am just starting to work with the lights and stuff so I can't do more than agree with Jerry.


----------



## Mike_E

FarmerJ, the space blankets work pretty well but with a simple white you get softer light with less direct reflection on the oils of the skin.

As to the color cast in the room, shooting in RAW, shoot a new Styrofoam cup with the first shot and balance the rest in post.  That's why they have adjustable WB .  (you could do a custom balance in camera of course)


----------



## farmerj

White reflector for soft light
Silver for Harsh light
Gold for Warmer light.

Frame could be used for all three.  I know space blankets come if both gold and silver.

It would be a matter of finding the correct material for a white reflector.

I would look into getting a white balance or grey card before shooting a styro-foam cup.  My fiance bought me a Whibal brand card for Christmas.  I love working with it when I know I will have light/color issues.


----------



## jcolman

JerryPH said:


> misol said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where I am shooting has pink and green walls!  So I need lots of white to try to counteract the walls.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong tool for the wrong effect.
> 
> In a green room if you slap a white background and shoot off that, you still will get a lot of green colourcasting in the shot.
> 
> What you want to do is control your environment with light, not foamcore.
> 
> Overpower the ambient, and you can make any colour room any different colour you want.  Underpower the ambient and make it anything up to and including black if you want!
Click to expand...


I think what the OP is talking about is bouncing his flash off the foam core, not using it as a background.  Bouncing light off a 4x8 foamcore is SOP for many cinematographers and it works quite well.  You get a beautiful soft white wash of light, regardless of the room color.

To the OP, one trick you can use to make sure the 4x8 sheet fits in your car is to cut thru one side with a box knife and put some gaffer tape over the cut.  You can then fold the sheet.  Cut the sheet into thirds.  The sheet then fits nicely into a small vehicle.  You simply unfold it and clamp it to a light stand or C-stand.


----------



## JerryPH

jcolman said:


> I think what the OP is talking about is bouncing his flash off the foam core, not using it as a background.  Bouncing light off a 4x8 foamcore is SOP for many cinematographers and it works quite well.  You get a beautiful soft white wash of light, regardless of the room color.



May work well for cinematography where you use constant on lighting, but with flash, this would work, but there are far more easier and better ways to accomplish the same effect.

For it to cover the area they want in a room they would need a very strong light source.  It would also not be all that diffused and becuase it is flash, they would spend more time/effort aligning everything.  Why not simply build or use a small softbox?  This would accomplish the same thing WAY more effectively, is easier to carry around and move, is much more versatile and would give superior results.

You can go from small hand made foam core diffuser to huge 50" softbox and all could be powered by a single off-camera flash and give way better results easier!

Small:












Huge:


----------



## jcolman

JerryPH said:


> May work well for cinematography where you use constant on lighting, but with flash, this would work, but there are far more easier and better ways to accomplish the same effect.
> 
> For it to cover the area they want in a room they would need a very strong light source.  It would also not be all that diffused and becuase it is flash, they would spend more time/effort aligning everything.  Why not simply build or use a small softbox?  This would accomplish the same thing WAY more effectively, is easier to carry around and move, is much more versatile and would give superior results.
> 
> You can go from small hand made foam core diffuser to huge 50" softbox and all could be powered by a single off-camera flash and give way better results easier!



Hate to disagree but you're wrong.  Light is light regardless of wether or not it's constant or strobe.  The only difference is the power and size of the lens or reflector.  Bouncing any light onto a large white surface would produce light that is very diffused and soft.  (ask any wedding photographer who "foofs his speedlight).

A softbox is useful (I own two of them) in certain situations and I use mine all the time, but when you want to light a large area with soft light, you need a large source of light.  Bouncing a couple of speedlights or one larger studio strobe off a large piece of foamcore gives you a wonderful soft light.  Setting up a 4x8 foamcore can be quick and easy if you use C-stands.  You can also use light stands and spring clamps.  You're not really "aligning" anything when you use large pieces of foamcore as it gives you a very wide spread of light.

If I have to light an interior shot (for commercial purposes...not a wedding or other event) foam core gives me better results than my 3'x4' softbox


----------



## JerryPH

I would not say that I am wrong.  From the perspective that with foam core you are just bouncing light off of it, your angle between the speedlight and C-stand better be spot on.  With a 50" softbox holding one speedlight, you point and know where it will go, where as being off by as little as 5 degrees can affect light drastically.  Both work, but a softbox for photography is using the right tool for the right job and will do it better... and it is more diffused light than if bounced off a foamcore sheet.  Direct reflected will always be harsher than light diffused through a soft material.  

As far as effectiveness, the 50" Apollo with a single SB-600 at 1/4 power gets me an entire room of 20ft X 30ft lit at F/4-F/4.5 near anywhere I stand in that room.  If I add a 2nd SB-600 into it (very easy), I do the same at 1/8th power.  

Talking about weddings, If I install my 1,000W/s studio strobe in it I can, from that one source about 12 feet off the ground, light a 100ft X 100ft reception dance floor at 250W/s @ ISO 400 and F/5.6.  Not so easy to do with a foamcore reflector, where you need to deal with 2 things vs a light in a softbox (one item). This becomes even more important as you start needing to be more mobile and/or are alone to move your equipment from spot to spot.

I'm not a big fan of using video technology for photography and that C-stand, unless someone holds it, will fly away in the smallest breeze outside... thats another issue that a studio head in a softbox suffers less of (especially when there is a 25lb battery pack attached to the stand).

Different strokes for different folks, but some strokes are just less effective.  It is still always a choice, I suppose.  Kind of like going precision target shooting... you can use a kidney-buster shot gun point blank or that scoped rifle from 200 yards.  Both get the job done, one is just messy... lol


----------



## jcolman

JerryPH said:


> I would not say that I am wrong.  From the perspective that with foam core you are just bouncing light off of it, your angle between the speedlight and C-stand better be spot on.  With a 50" softbox holding one speedlight, you point and know where it will go, where as being off by as little as 5 degrees can affect light drastically.  Both work, but a softbox for photography is using the right tool for the right job and will do it better... and it is more diffused light than if bounced off a foamcore sheet.  Direct reflected will always be harsher than light diffused through a soft material.
> 
> As far as effectiveness, the 50" Apollo with a single SB-600 at 1/4 power gets me an entire room of 20ft X 30ft lit at F/4-F/4.5 near anywhere I stand in that room.  If I add a 2nd SB-600 into it (very easy), I do the same at 1/8th power.
> 
> Talking about weddings, If I install my 1,000W/s studio strobe in it I can, from that one source about 12 feet off the ground, light a 100ft X 100ft reception dance floor at 250W/s @ ISO 400 and F/5.6.  Not so easy to do with a foamcore reflector, where you need to deal with 2 things vs a light in a softbox (one item). This becomes even more important as you start needing to be more mobile and/or are alone to move your equipment from spot to spot.
> 
> I'm not a big fan of using video technology for photography and that C-stand, unless someone holds it, will fly away in the smallest breeze outside... thats another issue that a studio head in a softbox suffers less of (especially when there is a 25lb battery pack attached to the stand).
> 
> Different strokes for different folks, but some strokes are just less effective.  It is still always a choice, I suppose.  Kind of like going precision target shooting... you can use a kidney-buster shot gun point blank or that scoped rifle from 200 yards.  Both get the job done, one is just messy... lol



Jerry, you and I will have to agree to disagree on this.  I've used both foam core and softboxes for many years.  Each has their advantages.  Your statement: "Both work, but a softbox for photography is using the right tool for the right job and will do it better" is looking at the issue with a closed mind.  Softboxes suffer from light falloff on the edges more so than using a large sheet of foamcore.  Sometimes the shot calls for a nice, smooth even broad swath of light across an entire room.  Advantage: foamcore.

Nevertheless, each has their own place in the photographic world.  You would be wise to not disregard so quickly a well placed sheet of foamcore for a future lighting job.


----------



## Mike_E

jcolman said:


> Nevertheless, each has their own place in the photographic world.  You would be wise to not disregard so quickly a well placed sheet of foamcore for a future lighting job.




Or just a sheet.  The reflection from foamcore or cloth is a diffuse reflection-hence a soft light as opposed to a direct reflection -aka silver material- being a hard light.

A sheet or other white material stretched across a frame or a foamcore board used in the same manner as an umbrella will work wonders for your strobist efforts.  And since it's a diffuse reflection it's fairly omni-directional so close is good enough.

If you have two of either try placing them in a 45 degree angle and touching along one side.  Place a flash on a stand pointing to where they meet and your subject in front of all of this for a *Mega* softbox effect.

I think that you will be pleased!

mike


----------



## DanCanon

I sell foam core in many sizes.  If anyone is interested, send me the sizes and qty's that you are looking for.  Black and white.  I can also send pics.


----------



## JerryPH

jcolman said:


> Nevertheless, each has their own place in the photographic world.  You would be wise to not disregard so quickly a well placed sheet of foamcore for a future lighting job.



Never said I would nor did.  It has it's place, but certainly not in lighting up larger areas like the OP is looking to do.  Makes great small diffusers, though, as I showed up above (I like my little home made bounce card, it works very well, if a little harsh, still better than direct flash  ).

I've never seen Dean Collins ("Mr huge Scrims" to me... lol), Zack Arias, Joe McNally, or any of the publically known and knowledgeable photographers go out on a job and use a foamcore wall... yet near all will use material covered scrims (usually rip-stop).  If it was so good, one would think it would be immensly popular, which it really is near non-existant in the photography world.

Again, not saying it won't work, but there are better ways, even if it is a softbox, umbrella if you don't want as much fall off (which I really do prefer lately) or a studio strobe firing into a 4 X 8 foot rip-stop covered scrim, which I have tried and do like a lot when there is lots of room around me to play.

Foamcore is also a lot more easily breakable than rip-stop silk.  It hardens with age, gets yellow and has a limited lifespan compared to ripstop, which is another reason why it likely is not as popular.


----------



## ~Stella~

Can someone retitle this thread: _ The Great Foam Core Debate of 2009_

Thanks!


----------



## GeneralBenson

JerryPH, foam core is immensely popular in the studio world, because there's space for it to hang out by the wall when it's not being used.  The people you mentioned seem to be location shooters, and foam core sucks on location.  Of course the advantage goes to the scrim frame with ripstop, that can be broken down and packed into a duffel bag, versus the 4x8 piece of foam core, which packs down to about 4x8 feet.  I would agree that in most situations, foam core isn't the best option, but people who are fix in one location and have space, like a big studio, seem to love it.


----------

