# All for £10



## gsgary

Leica M4 + 40F1.4 Voigtlander, Fomapan 400 developed in Rodinal for 9 minutes


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## o hey tyler

Verticals are crooked.

Should be an easy fix in post... Oh wait.


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## manaheim

Lol.

That looks like an adorable shot... But um... Why so slanted? Lol


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## LaFoto

Well, that's what he seems to think 

Nice one.
Why the tilt?
It is over 40 years ago that I watched my uncle make his own prints in his darkroom, but it was there and then I saw that he could correct tilts...


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## gsgary

Thank's but i like the tilt because of the way the gentleman has his leg, shooting with the Leica you seem to be invisible
Bruce Gilden does not correct tilt


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## LaFoto

This makes me think I really should get out the Leica again and use it! There's one roll of b&w film left in the fridge somewhere, if I remember right!?!?
And I now see why you like the tilt, what with his leg stretched out that way and all!


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## JAC526

I believe I have made that very expression sitting next to my wife on a bench.

You can only imagine what she is saying to him.


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## gsgary

JAC526 said:


> I believe I have made that very expression sitting next to my wife on a bench.
> 
> You can only imagine what she is saying to him.



she said "Your not getting me in any of that gear to your left i'm too old, give me a big pair of bloomers any day"


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## JAC526

Exactly.


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## manaheim

gsgary said:
			
		

> Thank's but i like the tilt because of the way the gentleman has his leg, shooting with the Leica you seem to be invisible
> Bruce Gilden does not correct tilt



Gary, I love ya and I love this pic and I'm a lover of the tilt when it contributes to the image, so please take this in as lovey a way as humanly possible.

Your reason is utter crap.  The tilt is totally borked.  Fix it.

Lol

I do love you though.


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## gsgary

manaheim said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank's but i like the tilt because of the way the gentleman has his leg, shooting with the Leica you seem to be invisible
> Bruce Gilden does not correct tilt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gary, I love ya and I love this pic and I'm a lover of the tilt when it contributes to the image, so please take this in as lovey a way as humanly possible.
> 
> Your reason is utter crap.  The tilt is totally borked.  Fix it.
> 
> Lol
> 
> I do love you though.
Click to expand...


This is artistic tilt  i remember shooting a ruby cup final on a pitch that was slopped about 2.5 feet from on end to the other, first thing i was told was it was tilted


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## tirediron

I don't even want to imagine the quality of wine that they would offer as a full bottle with a meal for ten quid!!!


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## o hey tyler

gsgary said:
			
		

> Thank's but i like the tilt because of the way the gentleman has his leg, shooting with the Leica you seem to be invisible
> Bruce Gilden does not correct tilt



Bruce Gilden is also a total hoser. 

Sorry, but I don't buy into the reason for the tilt, Gary. If a novice were to post an image that was tilted and justified it with a similar reason, there is no doubt in my mind that you would not let them see the end of it. 

You may like the tilt, but I and a few others don't think it adds to the image.


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## Derrel

Good Lord Gary--look through the flippin' viewfinder next time before triggering one off!!!

Geebus!


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## amolitor

Reasonable "street" a little busy, but there's some nice geometry and (a little) mystery to it.

I like the tilt because plays well with:

the man's leg
the man's cane
the sloped writing on the shop windows
the relative heights of his and her head

It respects and brings out the various geometries in the situation. Not every street photographer has been all about the geometry, but the best of them all sure as heck was. I like a little geometry with my street.

People who complain about tilted this and that are weenies, there's been some excellent work that was tilted for not one damn reason at all. Sometimes the tilt is good, sometimes it's bad, often it's neither one thing nor the other, it just is. The trouble with tilt isn't the tilt, it's when you try to save a crap photograph by tilting the frame to "pep it up".


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## gsgary

Don't like it as much now


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## amolitor

That's because it's not as good any more.


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## sleist

The people are interesting enough and a great capture.  Adding the tilt is just the photographer intruding on the subject.
I look at this at say - cool shot!  Then I wonder - why the tilt?
Completely pulls me out of the moment.

Still a cool shot.


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## Derrel

amolitor said:


> Reasonable "street" a little busy, but there's some nice geometry and (a little) mystery to it.
> 
> I like the tilt because plays well with:
> 
> the man's leg
> the man's cane
> the sloped writing on the shop windows
> the relative heights of his and her head
> 
> It respects and brings out the various geometries in the situation. Not every street photographer has been all about the geometry, but the best of them all sure as heck was. I like a little geometry with my street.
> 
> People who complain about tilted this and that are weenies, there's been some excellent work that was tilted for not one damn reason at all. Sometimes the tilt is good, sometimes it's bad, often it's neither one thing nor the other, it just is. The trouble with tilt isn't the tilt, it's when you try to save a crap photograph by tilting the frame to "pep it up".



You forgot to add: this kind of tilt also makes it look like you're on heroin. Or drunk off your arse and couldn't give two chits about your craft...so, those are some bonuses you forgot to mention dude! Respects the geometry? WTF?


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## amolitor

Yeah, it respects the geometry. It's a "street" thing, seeing the lines and the shapes as they fall at the precise moment the shutter opens, and hitting the moment when the alignments and echoed shapes and lines are just so. The tilt in this case emphasizes and clarifies the way the lines and shapes in this photograph are aligning, crossing, and echoing one another.

Google up "Henri Cartier-Bresson Geometry" and poke around a bit, you'll see what I'm talking about. He was the MAN for geometry and street. gsgary ain't no HCB, but I can see that he's trying.


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## manaheim

gsgary said:


> manaheim said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank's but i like the tilt because of the way the gentleman has his leg, shooting with the Leica you seem to be invisible
> Bruce Gilden does not correct tilt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gary, I love ya and I love this pic and I'm a lover of the tilt when it contributes to the image, so please take this in as lovey a way as humanly possible.
> 
> Your reason is utter crap.  The tilt is totally borked.  Fix it.
> 
> Lol
> 
> I do love you though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is artistic tilt  i remember shooting a ruby cup final on a pitch that was slopped about 2.5 feet from on end to the other, first thing i was told was it was tilted
Click to expand...


hehehe, well in the end you have to do what you think is right, man.  It's your work, do what you feel.  Trust me, I get banged on for tilts alllllllllllllllll the time and I usually tell people to go pound sand. 



amolitor said:


> Reasonable "street" a little busy, but there's some nice geometry and (a little) mystery to it.
> 
> I like the tilt because plays well with:
> 
> the man's leg
> the man's cane
> the sloped writing on the shop windows
> the relative heights of his and her head
> 
> It respects and brings out the various geometries in the situation. Not every street photographer has been all about the geometry, but the best of them all sure as heck was. I like a little geometry with my street.
> 
> People who complain about tilted this and that are weenies, there's been some excellent work that was tilted for not one damn reason at all. Sometimes the tilt is good, sometimes it's bad, often it's neither one thing nor the other, it just is. The trouble with tilt isn't the tilt, it's when you try to save a crap photograph by tilting the frame to "pep it up".



Which I don't think is the case here... though I DO think it may need some crop adjustments to make it work post-straightening.  I just don't have time to play now.


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## Designer

Actually, I think if it were going to be tilted, for the dubious reason stated, then it should have been tilted in the other direction. 


Tilt fail.


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## Photographiend

My first thought was "Tilt Bad" but I dunno after seeing it both ways I am more drawn to the tilted version. 

I still can't get over the mans body language. It says "Damn it Woman, Quit nagging me!"


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## manaheim

Designer said:


> Actually, I think if it were going to be tilted, for the dubious reason stated, then it should have been tilted in the other direction.
> 
> 
> Tilt fail.



I wish people would stop with the "xxx fail" thing.  Everyone thinks it's super funny... and it is when it's in a meme, but when it's directed right at someone it's really harsh and obnoxious.


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## gsgary

amolitor said:
			
		

> Yeah, it respects the geometry. It's a "street" thing, seeing the lines and the shapes as they fall at the precise moment the shutter opens, and hitting the moment when the alignments and echoed shapes and lines are just so. The tilt in this case emphasizes and clarifies the way the lines and shapes in this photograph are aligning, crossing, and echoing one another.
> 
> Google up "Henri Cartier-Bresson Geometry" and poke around a bit, you'll see what I'm talking about. He was the MAN for geometry and street. gsgary ain't no HCB, but I can see that he's trying.



That bloody poetry


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## gsgary

Best thing about it now is it has got people fired up like this new camera has got me


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## gsgary

tirediron said:
			
		

> I don't even want to imagine the quality of wine that they would offer as a full bottle with a meal for ten quid!!!



Marks and Spencer food is actually top quality


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## gsgary

o hey tyler said:
			
		

> Bruce Gilden is also a total hoser.
> 
> Sorry, but I don't buy into the reason for the tilt, Gary. If a novice were to post an image that was tilted and justified it with a similar reason, there is no doubt in my mind that you would not let them see the end of it.
> 
> You may like the tilt, but I and a few others don't think it adds to the image.



Sorry i dont agree with you on Bruce Gilden i have spoken to him and he is a real nice guy


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## unpopular

I like this much more. The manequines are much more important, and plays well with the face palm, I can play with ideas about what he's thinking about.


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## gsgary

manaheim said:
			
		

> I wish people would stop with the "xxx fail" thing.  Everyone thinks it's super funny... and it is when it's in a meme, but when it's directed right at someone it's really harsh and obnoxious.



Dont worry its like water off a ducks back fo me


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## gsgary

If anyone is interested i was using hyperfocus, camera set to about f8-f11 @ 10 feet and shoot away no focusing


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## Designer

manaheim said:


> Designer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, I think if it were going to be tilted, for the dubious reason stated, then it should have been tilted in the other direction.
> 
> 
> Tilt fail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wish people would stop with the "xxx fail" thing. Everyone thinks it's super funny... and it is when it's in a meme, but when it's directed right at someone it's really harsh and obnoxious.
Click to expand...


Comment fail.


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## manaheim

Designer said:
			
		

> Comment fail.



Lol

Touché.


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## Fred Berg

gsgary said:


> If anyone is interested i was using hyperfocus, camera set to about f8-f11 @ 10 feet and shoot away no focusing



I had wondered if this was the case. This method of calculating the correct exposure and focus is what I use with my Voigtländer and find it very reliable....and quick!


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## jake337

Damn you!

 I thought you were selling your Leica M4 + 40F1.4 Voigtlander....[h=2]All for £10[/h]


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## gsgary

jake337 said:
			
		

> Damn you!
> 
> I thought you were selling your Leica M4 + 40F1.4 Voigtlander....[h=2]All for £10[/h]



**** that never


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## Designer

gsgary said:


> Bruce Gilden does not correct tilt



Bruce Gilden had an an eye for composition.  If he tilted the frame in some of his shots it was because he saw the superior image available, and did what he had to do in order to make the shot.  If you wish to emulate someone, that is fine.  Lame, perhaps, but fine.  

Your rather weak attempt here is nothing at all what Bruce Gilden would have done with the scene, so why would you feel the need to use the work of another photographer to bolster your own?  Your work should stand on its own without naming somebody else with which to excuse your technique.


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## sleist

Designer said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bruce Gilden does not correct tilt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bruce Gilden had an an eye for composition.  If he tilted the frame in some of his shots it was because he saw the superior image available, and did what he had to do in order to make the shot.  If you wish to emulate someone, that is fine.  Lame, perhaps, but fine.
> 
> Your rather weak attempt here is nothing at all what Bruce Gilden would have done with the scene, so why would you feel the need to use the work of another photographer to bolster your own?  Your work should stand on its own without naming somebody else with which to excuse your technique.
Click to expand...


I don't think comments like this enhance the discussion.  None of us can "know" the intent of the photographer when he presses the shutter - only the result.
If someone develops a style that is evident in the consistency of his/her body of work, then those assumptions "may" be more appropriate.

Until then, a great shot (or a bad one) can be as much the result of an accident as careful preparation.  So judge the photo, not the photographer.

(I'm speaking here of forum posts, not Bruce Gilden - just to be clear.     )


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## jake337

gsgary said:
			
		

> **** that never



I know, I know


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## gsgary

Designer said:
			
		

> Bruce Gilden had an an eye for composition.  If he tilted the frame in some of his shots it was because he saw the superior image available, and did what he had to do in order to make the shot.  If you wish to emulate someone, that is fine.  Lame, perhaps, but fine.
> 
> Your rather weak attempt here is nothing at all what Bruce Gilden would have done with the scene, so why would you feel the need to use the work of another photographer to bolster your own?  Your work should stand on its own without naming somebody else with which to excuse your technique.



If you know about Bruce Gilden you would know he would not shoot this sort of shot


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## o hey tyler

gsgary said:
			
		

> If you know about Bruce Gilden you would know he would not shoot this sort of shot



You are right, he'd be running up to people on the streets or NY with his Leica/slow flash sync combo harassing the elderly and being a tool in general.


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## gsgary

o hey tyler said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you know about Bruce Gilden you would know he would not shoot this sort of shot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are right, he'd be running up to people on the streets or NY with his Leica/slow flash sync combo harassing the elderly and being a tool in general.
Click to expand...


And makings loads of money + shooting for the world famous Magnum agency


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## amolitor

He gets interesting results.


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## o hey tyler

gsgary said:
			
		

> And makings loads of money + shooting for the world famous Magnum agency



For making "loads of money," he must try really hard to maintain that homeless look.


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## gsgary

o hey tyler said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And makings loads of money + shooting for the world famous Magnum agency
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For making "loads of money," he must try really hard to maintain that homeless look.
Click to expand...


You have not met many artist then, most of them look like tramps, i used to live in the artist capitol of the UK StIves Cornwall and most of the top artists are not that bothered about how they look or what people think


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## o hey tyler

gsgary said:
			
		

> You have not met many artist then, most of them look like tramps, i used to live in the artist capitol of the UK StIves Cornwall and most of the top artists are not that bothered about how they look or what people think



Then I guess he won't be bothered that I think he's a hoser. ;-)


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## Designer

sleist said:


> Designer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bruce Gilden does not correct tilt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bruce Gilden had an an eye for composition. If he tilted the frame in some of his shots it was because he saw the superior image available, and did what he had to do in order to make the shot. If you wish to emulate someone, that is fine. Lame, perhaps, but fine.
> 
> Your rather weak attempt here is nothing at all what Bruce Gilden would have done with the scene, so why would you feel the need to use the work of another photographer to bolster your own? Your work should stand on its own without naming somebody else with which to excuse your technique.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think comments like this enhance the discussion. None of us can "know" the intent of the photographer when he presses the shutter - only the result.
> If someone develops a style that is evident in the consistency of his/her body of work, then those assumptions "may" be more appropriate.
> 
> Until then, a great shot (or a bad one) can be as much the result of an accident as careful preparation. So judge the photo, not the photographer.
> 
> (I'm speaking here of forum posts, not Bruce Gilden - just to be clear.  )
Click to expand...


I already judged his photo.  I don't like it.  I posted earlier that since he was going to tilt it, he may as well have tilted it in an appropriate direction.  His reference to Bruce Gilden was his lame attempt to shed blame.  OP referenced Gilden, not I, and he did so with the implied intent of claiming artistic license.


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## manaheim

Jesus Christ... Will you clowns stop drowning every damned thread in negative remarks and hostility?

Get a fscking room for chrissakes.


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## jamesbjenkins

Manaheim, don't let these loathsome creatures hell-bent on crapping all over everyone else's work get to you.

It's the only effective way for pathetic, subpar photographers to get better...by tearing everyone else down. God forbid they put the same efforts into improving their craft as they do when typing out their immensely clever "criticism" and follow-up retorts.


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## o hey tyler

jamesbjenkins said:
			
		

> It's the only effective way for pathetic, subpar photographers to get better...



Nice to know what you think of me.


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## Menthol

Straighten things up mate. Its a nice picture so don't ruin it by being lazy. Lol

Good work

Sent from my Galaxy SII using PhotoForum


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## rexbobcat

gsgary said:
			
		

> You have not met many artist then, most of them look like tramps, i used to live in the artist capitol of the UK StIves Cornwall and most of the top artists are not that bothered about how they look or what people think



I think it's more of a pretentious identity thing. I'm sure they do it so they'll be noticed at the 'struggling artist.' In my experience it's a lot easier to put on plain jeans and a t- shirt than to look trashy. 

As an artist, they all care what others think. If that's their 'career', then their whole livelihood depends on others' opinions, and I'm sure that mentality bleeds over into other aspects of their lives

Just my experience with artists and art students (60% are *******s)

Also; why does everyone enjoy getting all self- righteous?


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## charlie76

Tilt generally is annoying and unnecessary..weak tool for a lazy mind...something like that...
But..
The tilt works perfectly here IMO...even though tilt is a little *much* in this shot.  The tilt shows a lot about the image in this case...shows it was super-candid, the photographer probably was shooting from the hip (as I often do when I am on the street or around a lot of people), and gives movement to the composition.

So...like the tilt...but this image is pretty "tilt heavy"....but I still like it very much.


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## invisible

Fantastic image. I wouldn't change a thing. The tilt gives the photo a flow that is totally lost in the non-tilted version.


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## Designer

jamesbjenkins said:


> ...immensely clever "criticism" ...



I like that, and if it was directed at me, then I'll gladly accept credit for it.  You seem to have missed all my positive comments whenever I see photographs that are actually good.  You have the benefit of reading my criticism (pos or neg) for no extra charge, but if I were to pass on the cost of my education, you would be expected to pay for it.  Count your blessings.


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## gsgary

Negative is good at least it provoked a reaction


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## manaheim

gsgary said:
			
		

> Negative is good at least it provoked a reaction



Heh. True.


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## jamesbjenkins

Designer said:
			
		

> I like that, and if it was directed at me, then I'll gladly accept credit for it.  You seem to have missed all my positive comments whenever I see photographs that are actually good.  You have the benefit of reading my criticism (pos or neg) for no extra charge, but if I were to pass on the cost of my education, you would be expected to pay for it.  Count your blessings.



Yes, forgive me, oh great one. I forgot thou art the supreme authority on photography in the universe.

So, baseless arrogant assery is in style in your neck of the woods?

With that attitude, your "education" isn't fit to be used for toilet paper.


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## unpopular

I didn't read through all this goop, but I am seeing a lot of "the tilt doesn't work for the same hat it's tilted. Or "IMO the tilt works!!!!!! (coddle)"

I'm not seeing a lot f discourse here, no sense that the critics here have any vocabulary as to why the tilt works or not. Honestly, if the only conclusions you ave are knee jerk reactions based on convention or what merely looks good, then you ought to avoid posting a critique.


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