# Is passion enough to be a successful photographer?



## TMuhammad (Nov 2, 2011)

Hi guys and gals! 

I'm new to photography and even newer to this forum. I'm really interested in becoming a photographer, but I don't know much about that means. I know it means taking pictures and learning your camera and lenses, but what else is there? 

I'm learning all I can about aperture and shutter speeds and different kinds of lighting, you know...the basics. I love it all but someone gave me a reality check and basically told me that not knowing the industry and where you wanna go in it is not a good idea. 

Should I go to school for it(and take out loans that will forever haunt me) or learn it through experience? Is the Atlanta, Georgia area good for a photographer and if so, why? Any help and knowledge will be greatly appreciated.


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## Trever1t (Nov 2, 2011)

There's passion, technical skill and artistic ability. It is my firm belief that one can get by with a little of all three, a lot of two and a little of one but never only one or two of those attributes.


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## Big Mike (Nov 2, 2011)

There are most likely different paths that you should take, depending on what type of photography you want to do.  If you want to do weddings, portraits, maybe commercial etc....then you'll likely be running your own small business.  So in that case, you're probably much better off learning how to run a business first...photography second.  Many very good photographers aren't successful because they fail to run their business well.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Nov 2, 2011)

> Should I go to school for it



I'm in it as a hobby and loving the certification program offered by my local university. I'm sure you can find the same courses in Atlanta:

Core Courses

Photography Introduction
Photography Intermediate
Studio Lighting Introduction
Business Essentials for Photographers
Digital Image Management
Studio Lighting Advanced


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## sm4him (Nov 2, 2011)

Trever1t said:


> There's passion, technical skill and artistic ability. It is my firm belief that one can get by with a little of all three, a lot of two and a little of one but never only one or two of those attributes.


^EXACTLY what he said.

Only thing I'd add is that if you're that new to photography, don't worry about whether you should go to school, or start studying the business aspects, or what to "specialize" in. Take some time LEARNING photography and PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE. Read everything you can get your hands on, participate in forums, but mostly practice. Practice your composition, practice your technical skills...it's easy to read about how ISO, aperture and shutter speeds all correlate with each other, but when you go out and start changing settings, you will really GET how they affect the end result.

After you've spent a good bit of time practicing, you will not only have improved, but you'll have a better sense of whether you have what it takes--that combination of passion, technical skill and artistic ability. If you do, then you can decide whether to pursue it as a hobby or a profession, whether to get a formal photography education or find professionals you can "shadow" to learn by experience.  

Don't rush in--Ebay is flooded with all the equipment of those who did, and whose camera and equipment now sits gathering dust.


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## MLeeK (Nov 2, 2011)

Passion and a thirst for knowledge will get you every bit of knowledge you need WITH THE CAMERA. It won't get you the business education you need to run the business. 
For the photography part of it you need education, how you get that education is totally up to you. You can go to a formal school, reading books,  attending workshops, surfing the internet, finding a mentor... whatever works for you. It doesn't matter how you get the knowledge. If you have a passion for it you will find the way to get what you need in a way that works for you.
Business, on the other hand is a killer. It's not learned with a passion for the art... It's about as opposite of art as you can get. Again you need a GOOD business education and it doesn't matter how you gain it. The unfortunate problem with business, marketing, management, accounting, legal.... it doesn't come to you as easily as the resources for photography do. There aren't a million blogs, forums, websites teaching the fine intricacies of running a business in every way shape and form. The business end of this will ruin the best photographer and make the most mediocre of them succeed wildly. If you don't have a good business foundation passion is useless to succeed in this business. If you invest money in education and are truly an artist-invest in business education. Business doesn't come naturally to artists. We are very global-business is very linear.


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## Derrel (Nov 2, 2011)

Define successful...that has a huge bearing on the answer to the question. Is "successful" being published every day or month? Is it earning $100,000 annually? Is it making $40,000 annually in a small podunk in Arkansas? There are more "photographers" and "fauxtographers" today than probably at any other time in history. The field is very crowded at the bottom end. One's definition of success is critical.


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## orljustin (Nov 2, 2011)

TMuhammad said:


> I'm new to photography and even newer to this forum. I'm really interested in becoming a photographer, but I don't know much about that means. I know it means taking pictures and learning your camera and lenses, but what else is there?
> 
> I'm learning all I can about aperture and shutter speeds and different kinds of lighting, you know...the basics. I love it all but someone gave me a reality check and basically told me that not knowing the industry and where you wanna go in it is not a good idea.
> 
> Should I go to school for it(and take out loans that will forever haunt me) or learn it through experience? Is the Atlanta, Georgia area good for a photographer and if so, why? Any help and knowledge will be greatly appreciated.



"I'm interested in becoming a photographer" - well, pick up a camera and start taking pictures.  Now, you're a photographer.  You can be a successful photographer by producing nice images that satisfy you.  

It doesn't sound to me like you really need to worry about anything to do with becoming a professional photographer or even just charging for your work yet.

And don't use "passion".  Every new mwac is full of "passion" for photography.  Why can't anyone just "like" photography.  Why do they always have to have a "passion".  "My un-quenched passion to be a photographer made me leave my full time job with benefits!".  Ick.


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## imagemaker46 (Nov 2, 2011)

Being passionate about something consumes you, it's not "I like photography" or "I love photography"  There are many people that are passionate about photography that aren't successful at it. It is the same as artists that are passionate about painting, it's what drives them, but doesn't mean they are always successful artists.

We've gone thorugh the "how do you define being successful" threads in the past and had some very good answers.  But is passion enough, nope.


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## ghache (Nov 2, 2011)

You will need money, contacts and alot of time on your hands.


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## bentcountershaft (Nov 2, 2011)

You can learn business skills, technical aspects of photography and salesmanship but it takes time and motivation.  If the passion is strong enough it may drive you to learn all of those things but on it's own it won't be enough.


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## dots (Nov 2, 2011)

...............................................................







TMuhammad said:


> what else is there?
> 
> you know...the basics. I love it all
> 
> ...


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## KmH (Nov 2, 2011)

TMuhammad said:


> Is passion enough to be a successful photographer?


No. It also requires self-confidence, determination, and drive.

And if you have to ask these questions, I don't think you have any passion. If you did you, would just do what needs to be done, and not need validation from anyone else.


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## orljustin (Nov 2, 2011)

imagemaker46 said:


> Being passionate about something consumes you, it's not "I like photography" or "I love photography"  There are many people that are passionate about photography that aren't successful at it. It is the same as artists that are passionate about painting, it's what drives them, but doesn't mean they are always successful artists.



Most of these people posting these threads are not "passionate" about photography.  They just like to shoot pictures of their kids and their friends' kids.  It's just a hobby.


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## dots (Nov 2, 2011)

Yep..it's a load of timewasting blah


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## bennielou (Nov 2, 2011)

No.

Photography is a small portion of being a sucessful business owner.  Great passionate photogs sometimes go out of business.  Great business people don't always have the portfolio to stay in business.  

It's a marriage of many things.  Passion is an important, but small part of it.


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## bennielou (Nov 2, 2011)

KmH said:


> TMuhammad said:
> 
> 
> > Is passion enough to be a successful photographer?
> ...



I don't agree with this either.    You can have craploads of determination, self confidence and drive, but if you don't have the portfolio to back it up, or the ability to sell the deal in the first place, it won't matter anyway.  You will be just another one of those bloated people who talk big yet have zero business.

Hell, if it was just a matter of having self confidence and drive, I'd be HUGE.  The deal is, and I'm speaking seriously now (no snark) you have to be pretty freaking great at business, have something unique that people want, AND be able to produce it.

Self confidence is a 1 percent peice of the overall pie.

BWT, I thought it was a GREAT philosophical question.  Just saying.  Good on ya Mohammed for bringing up a great topic.  Hiss boo KmH for basically telling him he's stupid for even asking.


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## imagemaker46 (Nov 2, 2011)

bennielou said:


> KmH said:
> 
> 
> > TMuhammad said:
> ...



It is a great question.  I also have to agree that being a good business person and able to promote yourself will certainly put you in a position to be successful.  I have spent most of my life as a photographer, and have been passionate about it, success is perceived by others.


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## usayit (Nov 2, 2011)

You can become a successful (by whatever definition) photographer and not make enough to live off......

(always have a backup plan)


In short.. no.


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## chadott (Nov 3, 2011)

bennielou said:


> KmH said:
> 
> 
> > TMuhammad said:
> ...



Very well said bonnielou!  I couldn't possibly agree with you more.  
I don't think any of us who get constant emails from "photography marketing gurus" need to look much farther than our inbox to see examples of people with GREAT business sense that aren't really that great at photography.  Or at least not very creative with their photography.  Marketing and good business sense will go much farther to make your studio successful than being a great photographer.  I even know some pretty good photographers that have NO INTEREST whatsoever in becoming photographers professionally, and are quite content with keeping it as a hobby.

By the way...I absolutely hate the over use of the term "passion" when it comes to photography.  It is THE BIGGEST, most annoying pet peeve of mine when it comes to photographers.  

I'm passionate about my wife.  I'm passionate about my family.  I enjoy photography, and it has become a consuming part of my time (as it is my business.)  But I refuse to tell anyone that I am "passionate" about it.  

I wish I could think of a better word.  I'd over use the sh!t out of it!!


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## dots (Nov 3, 2011)

chadott said:


> I wish I could think of a better word.  I'd over use the sh!t out of it!!



Please ..not _robust_. Anything but _robust_. I don't know about stateside, but in the UK it's become a staple of corporate blahspeak for not doing very much about a problem...while wishing to appear _passionate_ and resolute 

cheers


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## BlairWright (Nov 3, 2011)

bennielou said:


> No.
> 
> Photography is a small portion of being a sucessful business owner.  Great passionate photogs sometimes go out of business.  Great business people don't always have the portfolio to stay in business.
> 
> It's a marriage of many things.  Passion is an important, but small part of it.



Agreed...

You also need to be business savvy as Bennielou alluded to and a ton of drive and determination. You can shoot 10,000 shots a day but unless you know how to market yourself, sell your photos, and run a business you will not make it. Most successful photographers these days are marketing gurus too, the product they market is their name...

Check out Blair Wright Studios and Elusion Wedding and Event Photography - Baltimore, Maryland, Virginia, Washington DC Photographers - Weddings Engagements Couples Portraits Events Commercial Photography for more information (wink wink) yes that's a joke but there is a bit of seriousness imbedded in that. I'm not Ansel Adams or Chase Jarvis but I make a really good secondary income from photography because I know how to run a business (which I do 12 hours a day M-F).

So, my answer is no... Passion is not enough to make it, it goes way deeper than just taking the best photograph in the world... unless someone sees it and likes it you're not going to survive as a photographer


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## barbeegal (Nov 6, 2011)

I have been taking photos for about 5 years now. I got better and  learned a lot until I recently started a business. Then I realized I  know absolutely nothing. I am now broke from fixing the place, investing  in basic equipment. I still need TONS of stuff. My camera is OK but  realizing I need new lenses. I have not slept in over 3 months due to  remodeling and doing most all the work myself, then trying to learn new  things with my camera I never seemed to think about before. I won't even  go into the whole marketing thing, this takes not only money but you  have to be creative. I am now in a situation I have to keep trying due  to the investment made, when all I want to do is run and hide, lol. A  hint from someone with lots of passion is first, FIRST, learn your  camera manually. Do not take another picture in Auto mode again. It  isn't your camera that takes bad pictures it is the photographer not  using the right settings. 

Things you must know before thinking about it as a business

Learn your camera
Know how to set your white balance, this is done before every shoot you do. Sometimes several times during a shoot depending on your setup.
know how to set your apperture and why
know how to set your shutterspeed and why
know why you need to check for exposure after every few pictures
Learn ISO and know why you would want to use 200 or 600
know how to use your focus options

After  you master these basic things, take lots of pictures and see what you  may have done better, what you got right, and keep at it till all these  options are second nature. Meaning you don't have to think about why you  did this or that setting, you just know because you know your camera  and your surrounding light.

Once you are able to take great  pictures to your liking manually and you know why it is a good picture,  then invest in some lighting equipment. This in of itself is a whole  other topic. Here comes into play of not only learning lighting but  posing those people you want to take great pictures of. Good luck  finding people to sit in front of the camera just for you to practice  with. I am sure I have caused some fading to stuffed animals I have just  to understand and learn my lighting. I have found people like to get in  and get out, so until you decide to do any kind of portraiture you  better have some experience with loved ones that understand your  learning curves. Take lots of pictures of people for free, but do not be  too secure in your work, as they just LOVE all your pictures because  they are of course FREE, lol. 

Once you figure out your camera in  full manual mode, take great pictures with your lighting and you got  your poses in some folder in your head, then the business part can then  come into play. No one is gonna buy great candid shots if they are  coming for professional portraits. This is what I am learning anyway .  I do great candid shots at weddings, but am struggling with posing for  portraits inside the studio. Winter is fast approaching and taking  outside seniors photos is not an option. I am scared to death and before  the business part came into play, I actually loved taking pictures  UGHHH. I was confident until my first unsatisfied customer came  demanding there money back. And until I started my business I thought of  myself as a photographer, I have now realized I have been only a  Fauxtographer . 

But because of the passion I have, I stay up  reading watching videos, then going to my camera and trying. I only  wished I had read all that I am writing to you before I took the plunge. I wished I knew people did not critique my work because they were getting it for free or cheap. 

I  feel I do OK work, and since my experience lately I have greatly  improved my work. Just my opinion here, but use your passion to take  great pictures and know why you are able to take great pictures before  thinking about the business side of things. Because going in not knowing  the whats and whys of your camera/lighting/posing basics and beyond,  the business will suck the passion right out of you.

Edited: I forgot to mention you also must master a photo editing program. Even after you are able to take great photos, you will run acrossed things that will need edited out or fixed. You will Crop photos to the customers sizes they would need for printing at the very least. I am in no way trying to deter you from your passion, just letting you know what I didn't before I started the business part.


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## Mark_McCall (Nov 10, 2011)

TMuhammad said:


> Is the Atlanta, Georgia area good for a photographer and if so, why?


It sure is. 
Atlanta is the home office of the Professional Photographers of America, the worlds largest photographic association. With over 25,000 members worldwide, your in the hotbed of professional photography. 
I spoke with PPA President, Don Dickson (who lives just 45 miles north of me), just a few days ago. He had taken over 90 trips this year requiring air travel so far this year of the interests of PPA Photographers. 

PPA and their affiliates work very hard for member photographers, offering low cost education, training, print competitions, indemnification insurance and FREE equipment loss insurance. 
I would join PPA, and find a local PPA Affiliated Guild. 
Guilds have monthly meetings, bring in speakers and have general fellowship. Surround yourself with good photographers and good photography. Guilt by association. LOL

I would suggest finding a mentor. Offer to be a pack mule for an established pro. 
Apprenticeship, in my opinion, is the single most effective way to learn any vocation. 
After awhile, the pro will allow you to shoot here and there and will eventually get to a place where your ready to shoot on your own.


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## dots (Nov 16, 2011)

It feels toy like in your hands, yet offers surprisingly *robust* controls
Smena 8M




dots said:


> chadott said:
> 
> 
> > I wish I could think of a better word.  I'd over use the sh!t out of it!!
> ...


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## fjrabon (Nov 16, 2011)

A great thing about Atlanta is that within reasonable driving distance you can find urban cityscapes, great opportunities for street photography, decaying urban areas, beautifully manicured architecture, sports of all levels, great parks, natural vistas (stone mountain is like 40 minutes away), historical subjects, beautiful models of all ethnic varieties, lots of weddings, gorgeous churches, beautiful cars, heck, I've even woken up at 2 AM driven to the beach to catch a sunset, then driven back in time for work.  Slogged through the rest of the day, but the shot justified it.  

The local meetup.com groups (and there are several dedicated solely to photography) seems to be very *robust*&#8203;, though I sadly have almost always had scheduling conflicts with their events.


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## unpopular (Nov 16, 2011)

I'd probably be a lot more successful if I actually took any photographs.


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## Crollo (Nov 16, 2011)

Why is it that in order to be a 'sucessful' photographer you have to run a business? Not everybody is in it for the profit, it's just a art like any other.


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## 12sndsgood (Nov 16, 2011)

Crollo said:


> Why is it that in order to be a 'sucessful' photographer you have to run a business? Not everybody is in it for the profit, it's just a art like any other.




id say most people that are posting in the general shop talk sub forum and asking what about being a good photographer is asking about what it takes to have a sucsessful photography business.  if this were in the off topic or general i'd be more apt to agree with you.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Nov 16, 2011)

Crollo said:


> Why is it that in order to be a 'sucessful' photographer you have to run a business? Not everybody is in it for the profit, it's just a art like any other.



Because in our society most measure success by the amount of digits in front of the decimal point


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## Crollo (Nov 20, 2011)

12sndsgood said:


> Crollo said:
> 
> 
> > Why is it that in order to be a 'sucessful' photographer you have to run a business? Not everybody is in it for the profit, it's just a art like any other.
> ...



Damn, my bad. Didn't read the subforum name or description.


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