# Max Print Size?



## RKW3 (Jan 11, 2008)

Okay, like you all know I have a D80. (10 mp)

I took some ISO 100 pics from the desert that I want to print out for my wall.

What max size do you think I should consider?? Is 10 x 15 too much??


I've also heard of some pretty good enlarging programs, should I try those out so I can get monstrous pics??


Basically I'm brand new to printing and I just want the low-down. Thanks!!


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## RKW3 (Jan 11, 2008)

P.S. the print site I've been looking at right now is Winkflash.com. They seem good!


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## Sideburns (Jan 11, 2008)

inches or feet?


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## Ls3D (Jan 11, 2008)

A lot depends on the output device and print medium. 300 DPI for standard lithography, 200 DPI on my crap epson looks pretty good, 150 starts to breakdown (alias). Billboards and large format prints can be as low as 75 DPI. So in PS go Alt- I, I (image size) make sure re-sample is OFF and type in your target DPI. Some up-rezzing programs are ok, but don't expect digital miracles and crisp output.

13 x 8.6 @ 300 dpi (all sizes in inches)
19.4 x 13 @ 200..
26 x 17.2 @ 150
51.8 x 34.5 @ 75

(sizes approximate based on my 10.1 mp 40D)

-Shea :mrgreen:


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## RKW3 (Jan 11, 2008)

um.. Inches I think. lol


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## RKW3 (Jan 11, 2008)

Ls3D said:


> A lot depends on the output device and print medium. 300 DPI for standard lithography, 200 DPI on my crap epson looks pretty good, 150 starts to breakdown (alias). Billboards and large format prints can be as low as 75 DPI. So in PS go Alt- I, I (image size) make sure re-sample is OFF and type in your target DPI.
> 
> 13 x 8.6 @ 300 dpi (all sizes in inches)
> 19.4 x 13 @ 200..
> ...



Thanks!


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## Antithesis (Jan 11, 2008)

I've printed quite a few 11x14's at 300 dpi on a super nice Epson Inkjet at my school with images from a d80 and they were sharp as can be. 

The d80 sensor is roughly 3800x2600 Pixels (10.2MP) on each side, just divide those each by 300(dpi) and you have your maximum print size. It's like 9.3x12.6, but like I said, 11x14's look just fine. Ls3D's explanation  was a little unclear, hopefully that makes a little more sense.


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## RKW3 (Jan 11, 2008)

So Shea, based on your little research, do you think a 10 x 15 inch print will turn out okay? It's from winkflash who guarantees their quality, etc.

Also, do any of you guys have experience enlarging pics to allow bigger prints? How should I approach this if I have to?


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## Mike_E (Jan 11, 2008)

I have done 20x24 from my D200 files with good success using Genuine Fractals to up size.

Best advice- Use a really good lens (primes are an inexpensive option- I have not used an 18-135mm and can't comment on that one in particular) and a tripod.


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## RKW3 (Jan 11, 2008)

Antithesis said:


> I've printed quite a few 11x14's at 300 dpi on a super nice Epson Inkjet at my school with images from a d80 and they were sharp as can be.
> 
> The d80 sensor is roughly 3800x2600 Pixels (10.2MP) on each side, just divide those each by 300(dpi) and you have your maximum print size. It's like 9.3x12.6, but like I said, 11x14's look just fine. Ls3D's explanation  was a little unclear, hopefully that makes a little more sense.


Like I asked Shea, do you think a 10 x 15 incher look good enough?

Here is what sizes winkflash offers for normal prints:






Maybe 10 x 13 is better to go with? Or maybe I can go with a 10 x 15 if I enlarge the pic a bit with a program made for enlarging? (I think there's one called Genuine Fractals or somethin like that)


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## Antithesis (Jan 11, 2008)

10x15 is just an off size, if you want to frame it or even get prints (that you don't have to crop to a custom size) you want to get 11x14's or 16x20's. a 10x15 will be fine, even up to 16x20 you won't see much imperfection unless your looking super close.


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## RKW3 (Jan 11, 2008)

Thanks guys!!!!! (add more !'s)


Mike, It's good to hear someone has experience with enlarging pics. I think I will look at that in the future when I want to go bigger.

Hold on I'll be back with more Q's in a sec.


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## Ls3D (Jan 11, 2008)

10 X 15 inches will be fine as it is so close to your native resolution (unless highly cropped). You may want to sharpen just a bit as inks and dyes can sublimate (spread).

20x24 using Genuine Fractals sounds very realistic as well.



> It's from winkflash who guarantees their quality, etc.


Of course you can not give them crap and expect quality, but I think you knew that.



> Ls3D's explanation  was a little unclear


What? I did the math 

-Shea


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## RKW3 (Jan 11, 2008)

Your explanation was fine Shea, I totally understood what you were instructing haha.

On Winkflash there's a "poster" option that offers bigger sizes. Is a poster worse than a normal picture in terms of quality? Here's the link.


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## RKW3 (Jan 11, 2008)

Another question, Matte or Glossy? I think matte is standard for big prints, am I right?


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## Ls3D (Jan 11, 2008)

Wow, those Giclée prices seem very reasonable. That particular type of output has an interesting quality to it, great for reproducing acrylic paintings, the perception of texture is amazing.

The larger output (posters) will look fine from 6 feet (maybe 4), but get close and you will see the half-toning, the dots that make up the image.

Matte VS Glossy, well the colors will shift a bit on glossy stock, they should appear to be brighter and will even appear to have a slightly different hue, not much but noticeable to the trained (or just observant) eye. Matte materials while not as vibrant, can help to hide slight defects, almost like a woman's makup (VS a sweaty betty) and is probably a better choice for the bigger enlargments. I'm sure you've seen photo paper VS plain paper, so just extend that experience to this output.

That said, without seeing the actual output, much of this is speculation, so pick a shot and order a couple of prints to gain the best insights.

I may try one of their Giclée prints myself!

-Shea :mrgreen:


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## frXnz kafka (Jan 12, 2008)

Matte vs. Glossy: are you going to frame the photos behind glass? If so, I'd probably go matte. If not, it really depends on the photo.


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## RKW3 (Jan 12, 2008)

I'm confused here. (what a surprise..)

Umm when I resize my image to 16 x 20 (for example) the pic comes all vertically and horizontally distorted. Does this mean I will have to crop or something? What would happen if I ordered a 16 x 20 and sent them my original size pic? Would it have to distort or crop to fit those dimensions? What's going on here?


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## RKW3 (Jan 12, 2008)

My orig photo size says: 53.778 inches x 36 inches (72 ppi)

Does this mean I can only resize with those same proportions? How am I s'posed to get a 16x20 (ie) without cropping or distortion?


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## RKW3 (Jan 12, 2008)

Wait.. I think I might have figured it out. I might just be stupid.

edit: think I did. scratch my last retard question.


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## Peanuts (Jan 12, 2008)

You would need to crop for a 16x20 as it is a different ratio.  I created a ratio chart a little bit ago if you need something to kind of gauge what ratio prints what.  You would need to trim a bit off the longest sides.

Edited to say pretend I didn't write that and actually scratched your question


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## RKW3 (Jan 12, 2008)

Wait, so if you had a 20x16 as opposed to 16x20 it could still work the same way right? Since you could just print the pic sideways?

Man I need some sleep.. haha


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## RKW3 (Jan 12, 2008)

Ok I think I got the answer to my retard question x2.

My pics new dimensions:

20 x 16 inches (200ppi)

It looks manageable. So does this mean I'm technically ready for a 16 x 20 inch print?


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## Peanuts (Jan 12, 2008)

Sounds right!


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## RKW3 (Jan 12, 2008)

Cool. Here's a 100% crop to see if you guys think the quality is good enough:








I know it could be better, but at least all the details are still there. Maybe the genuine fractals would do a better job. I don't have the money to buy that now though.


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## nossie (Jan 12, 2008)

You shouldn't worry about it. The best thing is to try it out. I've printed 30inch pictures from an 8mb Canon 350d (3456pxx2304px) with surprisingly good results, a little soft but really only a little so they're very acceptable.


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## doenoe (Jan 12, 2008)

i think you should just try it and see what happens. 
I got some nice posters from my 350D. They are 40x60 cm (somewhat like 16x24 inches) And these were cropped a bit. Think the resolution was 2816x2112. I didnt know what to expect, so i just send it away and was happy with the outcome.


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## Mav (Jan 12, 2008)

I've made 20 x 30" prints off of my 6MP D40 that I had to upsample a bit and they look great.  You don't need super high DPI with large prints because you're not viewing them at the same distance you would with smaller prints.  You hang 20x30" prints on walls and then look at them from several feet away or from across the room.  Even 100dpi is enough for that.


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## Mike_E (Jan 12, 2008)

RK, you don't have to have 'Fractals, I was just being precise in relating what I did.  If you do some further research you will find numerous ways to accomplish your goals.

If you are using photoshop you might just want to try here (they're free although I would urge you to donate if you can to keep the site going )

http://www.thelightsrightstudio.com/photoshop-tools.htm

BTW pay close attention to the Sharpening Toolkit.:thumbup:


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## dpolston (Jan 12, 2008)

I have printed a 5 _foot _by 12 _foot _photo from my D200 on full size raw.


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## RKW3 (Jan 12, 2008)

Jeez dpolston, that's perty big.


I'm downloading the trial of CS3 right now since I think I heard that is better for upsizing then my 5.0.  (hopefully the trial lets me do stuff anyways)

I think I should keep trying different ways to enlarge my pic for max quality. Once I think it's good enough I will definitely try the 16 x 20 print.


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## RKW3 (Jan 12, 2008)

I re-did the enlargement in CS3 and it's a bit better, I feel like it can make a good 16 x 20 now. I already uploaded the pic to winkflash now I just need to order. (walks away to find parents)


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## RKW3 (Jan 12, 2008)

Great, now I convinced myself I want a 20x30. (sigh..)

My new dimensions would be: 

30x20 inches (150 ppi)

Would the shot turn out okay if it looks like this at 100%? I no 150 ppi is pushing it, but I guess the quality doesn't have to be the best since it will be big anyways. Here's an example at 100%:





How would that turn out?


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## Peanuts (Jan 12, 2008)

It looks a bit too pixelated for my tastes.  Could you use a semi-pro local lab? They are better able to judge good quality printing sizes.


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## RKW3 (Jan 12, 2008)

Thanks Brittany, is this better? It loses some sharpness but I don't think that will affect it too much. Plus I think a lot of the pixelation is gone.


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## RKW3 (Jan 13, 2008)

Okay, I sent a 20x30 pic to mpix to be printed on metallic paper. 

It was 30 bucks out of my dad's pocket but I said I'll sell a videogame or 2 to pay him back.

Here is what the final 100% crop looks like, I think it will be acceptable:






Wish me luck.


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## RKW3 (Jan 13, 2008)

uh oh, will my print be okay if it's only 150 ppi? The quality of the 100% isn't even that good to begin with, will the 150 ppi deduct from the quality even more? Will it be noticeable in the print too much?

I just hope it works out.


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## Ls3D (Jan 15, 2008)

Regarding your questions, I hope YOU will let us know when it arrives.

BTW - I just ordered an 18x24 stretched canvas from the Winkflash site you brought to my attention, and it is also just 150 DPI. Fingers crossed..

Also, I got some metallic 4x6 prints from mpix last week, I like the look but they do curl a bit so you may want to plan on spray mounting your print. Good luck!

-Shea :mrgreen:


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## jstuedle (Jan 15, 2008)

Maximum size is only limited by the printer, not the M.P. of the camera. Many, and I do mean many billboards have been printed with images from 6 M.P. cameras. One of my best selling prints is from a 5.47 M.P. D1X shot in 2003. It ran as a limited release print in 36"X54" poster size. To see it look here:
http://www.pbase.com/jstuedle/feathered_friends
The file name is Azuli-outdoors-02. The next image is a crop from the 36" wide file. Viewed from 3 or more feet away the poster is a stunning image that many have asked if it was shot in medium format. I will chase mega pixels as much as the next guy, and I'm a gear head as much as anyone on the forum. But it's not the M.P.'s that really make the image. Go look in the mirror, now there is the real image maker!


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## RKW3 (Jan 15, 2008)

Ls3D said:


> Regarding your questions, I hope YOU will let us know when it arrives.
> 
> BTW - I just ordered an 18x24 stretched canvas from the Winkflash site you brought to my attention, and it is also just 150 DPI. Fingers crossed..
> 
> ...



It should be here already, I ordered FedEx Next Business Day because I have no patience! 

Spray mounting? What's that?


Jstuedle, thanks for the info. How did you enlargen it with so much quality? Genuine Fractals?


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## RKW3 (Jan 15, 2008)

Ls3D said:


> BTW - I just ordered an 18x24 stretched canvas from the Winkflash site you brought to my attention, and it is also just 150 DPI.



Yeah that's cool, tell me how it turns out. Winkflash seems nice, for some reason I just wanted a metallic print so that's why I ended up with mpix. I guess I will be alternating a lot from the 2 sites.


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## jstuedle (Jan 15, 2008)

RKW3 said:


> It should be here already, I ordered FedEx Next Business Day because I have no patience!
> 
> Spray mounting? What's that?
> 
> ...



No, at the time I only used PShop ver. 7. I up-sampled 10% at a time untill I got the image to size at 300 DPI. I did no other post untill at final size.


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## RKW3 (Jan 15, 2008)

Interesting, I think the quality of my Rusty pic came out okay with the enlargement, but will the 150 ppi kill me?


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## Ls3D (Jan 15, 2008)

> Spray mounting? What's that?


Yeah I guess that was a bit cryptic. I simply meant that you might want to spray some adhesive on the back and carefully mount it to some foam core or other stiffer material, matte board etc..

-Shea


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## jstuedle (Jan 15, 2008)

RKW3 said:


> Interesting, I think the quality of my Rusty pic came out okay with the enlargement, but will the 150 ppi kill me?



At a normal viewing distance I'm sure it will be fine.


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## RKW3 (Jan 17, 2008)

I got the print a few days ago and it looks great! 20x30 is the perfect size to go on my wall. At 150ppi I can't tell a quality loss either, it looks really good.

I'm really happy with how it turned out, thanks mpix!


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## Ls3D (Jan 18, 2008)

Good to hear, I should have my canvas tomorrow.

-S


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## TamiyaGuy (Jan 18, 2008)

RKW3 said:


> So Shea, based on your little research, do you think a 10 x 15 inch print will turn out okay? It's from winkflash who guarantees their quality, etc.


It should look fine. Unless you're doing commercial photography, or just if you're a *complete* perfectionist, you could even print a 20 X 30 print, and it look OK. 300dpi is exceptional quality, 200 for very good, 150 for good/OK, 100 is pretty bad.


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## Ls3D (Jan 18, 2008)

Got my 18 x 24 Giclée canvas today!  At 150 DPI and the shot being at the long end of my 300mm lens, it is a bit soft. I'm probably quite a bit more critical than most people, so I'm giving it a few day, and some decent light before I decide if it is ready for production.

-Shea


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## RKW3 (Jan 19, 2008)

Cool you got your canvas shea, mine was a tad bit soft too. Next time I will sharpen it a little more in pp.

Is getting a canvas worth it? I may look at one of those in the future.


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## Peanuts (Jan 19, 2008)

Canvases are SO cool.  I got my first one (they actually screwed it up. It was a 12x18 to be wrapped around a 1.5" border but they did it as an 11x17 around a 0.75" border. Darn! But in any case, I find with canvases you have to sharpen it just a tad bit more so it doesn't appear soft with all the ridges and such.


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## Ls3D (Jan 19, 2008)

Well it was $90 with shipping (declining US dollars), but I had to see it to evaluate it, much like your poster.

I was hoping the clear coat would be heavier and make the colors pop a bit, but I can always spray on a some more.

In summary I would save it for just your best work, something with nice dynamic range and colors, a crisp shot that looks great on photo paper.

I may sell this one (42 dolphins surfing) near cost just so I can experiment some more, perhaps a smaller size & with some more saturation to compensate for a narrow tonal range in this case.

-Shea :mrgreen:


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## RKW3 (Jan 19, 2008)

Also you guys, how do you go about selling pics from the web? By showing people previews and then telling them what sizes are available, then once they pay you, you order the pic from mpix to be delivered to their address?

Lol I have no idea about this stuff, it's something I'd definitely like to learn more about though.


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