# Sports Photography



## tevo (Oct 25, 2011)

Hello TPF,


Tevo-The-Unemployed just got a job as a sports photographer - the company is called SPORTSWURLZ and I go to high school sporting events and take pictures, and upload them all to the website. Schools sponsor us to come and take pictures, and I get paid (^_^). They provide a 70-300 lens (for my D7000), but I am in the business to get a 70-200 2.8 of some kind. I shot my first game (volleyball) today (with my semi-gabbage 18-105), but it isn't a part of my job -  I haven't been assigned anything yet. I just went out tonight to practice. Any advice from experienced sports shooters for a nab like me? I would say 30% of my photos turned out, but I was shooting in Cl/Ch and shot about 1500 photos tonight. Will upload some keepers later.


Thanks in advance!


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## Robin Usagani (Oct 25, 2011)

wide open, high ISO.  Thats all you can do unless you are a big time photographer and you are connected to the strobes hanging from the scoreboard during NBA games.


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## tevo (Oct 25, 2011)

Schwettylens said:


> wide open, high ISO.  Thats all you can do unless you are a big time photographer and you are connected to the strobes hanging from the scoreboard during NBA games.



Tonight I shot in the Sports setting on the D7000, which was basically wide open aperture, I set it to 2200-3200 ISO, and shot in continuous low speed @ about 200-250 on average. Shots came out decently, although a lot of them are OOF. How should I set up my AF? I was using AF-C 9 point (VR off of course)


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## tevo (Oct 26, 2011)

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## gsgary (Oct 26, 2011)

First off 30% keepers is a very low rate, do not use sports mode it is rubbish. Another thing shooting sports can get very expensive because you will need the best lenses to shoot inside and outside low light even with the lens they giving you it will be hard work


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## mangtarn (Oct 26, 2011)

i am a canon user but i do shoot sports (mostly water polo, hockey and football)
last weekend i was at a water polo tournament and i used the EF 75-300mm III (a very cheap lens) with my 60D. I had my ISO at 2500 and shutter speed at 1/500. I didn't use a flash. The photo turned out fine but in some shots the water droplets had motion blur. mostly for land sports i find 1/500 to 1/1000 is plenty fast.

30% keep rate is not terrible for sports (unless it's caused of operational error). sometimes i miss the perfect moment where the player is taking a shot so that is not a keeper. a canon 1dx should solve the problem (12 fps).


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## sierramister (Oct 26, 2011)

Get that shutter speed up to 1/500 or, even better, 1/1000.  Let's see some samples!


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## pdq5oh (Oct 26, 2011)

I shot some volleyball this fall. Getting white balance correct is very important. Focus and exposure are also very important in keeping noise to a minimum. I use a D7000 so high iso is fine provided focus and exposure are good. You'll need shutter speeds in the 640-1000th range, minimum, to freeze the ball. Players turn out ok at 400-500th. The lens you're being provided won't really cut it for best results. I spent most of the time around 135mm on my 70-200, shooting wide open or at 3.2. I use all manual settings so nothing changes my exposure unless I change it. AF C with 1 or 9 pts. I also set the AEL/AFL button to AF ON. This allows me to continuously focus and removes focus lag on shutter release. The DOF preview button is set to AFL so I can lock focus quickly if needed. When shooting play at the net I shoot all vertical. Play on the floor is usually horizontal with some vertical. A battery grip is a huge help with your camera shooting vertical. Shoot in CH as there's no reason not to. Volleyball isn't real easy, nor is it terribly hard to photograph. It IS fun though. Good luck.


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## tevo (Oct 26, 2011)

gsgary said:


> First off 30% keepers is a very low rate, do not use sports mode it is rubbish. Another thing shooting sports can get very expensive because you will need the best lenses to shoot inside and outside low light even with the lens they giving you it will be hard work



Agreed. This was my first time shooting a sporting event. I am going to every sporting event I can before I am assigned anything to try and hone my skills.



mangtarn said:


> i am a canon user but i do shoot sports (mostly water polo, hockey and football)
> last weekend i was at a water polo tournament and i used the EF 75-300mm III (a very cheap lens) with my 60D. I had my ISO at 2500 and shutter speed at 1/500. I didn't use a flash. The photo turned out fine but in some shots the water droplets had motion blur. mostly for land sports i find 1/500 to 1/1000 is plenty fast.
> 
> 30% keep rate is not terrible for sports (unless it's caused of operational error). sometimes i miss the perfect moment where the player is taking a shot so that is not a keeper. a canon 1dx should solve the problem (12 fps).



The highest I was getting was 1/250 with 2200 ISO, indoors. My glass was not the best, trying to get my hands on a better lens.



sierramister said:


> Get that shutter speed up to 1/500 or, even better, 1/1000.  Let's see some samples!



I will, preoccupied with some school stuff atm. Haven't had time to sort through anything


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## tevo (Oct 26, 2011)

pdq5oh said:


> I shot some volleyball this fall. Getting white balance correct is very important. Focus and exposure are also very important in keeping noise to a minimum. I use a D7000 so high iso is fine provided focus and exposure are good. You'll need shutter speeds in the 640-1000th range, minimum, to freeze the ball. Players turn out ok at 400-500th. The lens you're being provided won't really cut it for best results. I spent most of the time around 135mm on my 70-200, shooting wide open or at 3.2. I use all manual settings so nothing changes my exposure unless I change it. AF C with 1 or 9 pts. I also set the AEL/AFL button to AF ON. This allows me to continuously focus and removes focus lag on shutter release. The DOF preview button is set to AFL so I can lock focus quickly if needed. When shooting play at the net I shoot all vertical. Play on the floor is usually horizontal with some vertical. A battery grip is a huge help with your camera shooting vertical. Shoot in CH as there's no reason not to. Volleyball isn't real easy, nor is it terribly hard to photograph. It IS fun though. Good luck.



Alright, so my shutter wasn't nearly as high as it should have been. Last night I shot my 18-105, not the 70-300. I back focus in AF-C, 9 point. I believe the WB was set to auto, or indoor fluorescent with b3. As for the composition, thats essentially what I was doing. I found that I got less blur shooting in Cl, but with a faster shutter and Ch I think I will produce better results. Thanks for the advice!


Edit: I also have a grip.


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## MLeeK (Oct 26, 2011)

30% of keepers in Volleyball is great. I am having a HELL of a time with volleyball this year. It's my first year shooting VBall and it's harder than hell. There is someone here who does it and I can't remember who or what post it was in, but I have about a million questions for him when I get time! 

My first bit of advice: Get a good neutral, 18% graycard. You can use it to set your custom white balance and to set your exposure. 
Get out of aperture priority. Either full manual or Shutter priority. Shutter is your first and foremost need. You'll be maxing out your ISO in a LOT of gyms. There are some with good lights, but most of them? SUCK. Lightroom or Photoshop CS5 and Adobe Camera Raw will save your arse in post processing high ISO images. 
Learn to exposure to the max. For indoor sports I expose to the point JUST before skin would show a blow out. Turn on the highlight warnings and watch them. 
When you reduce exposure in post processing noise gets better, hidden or goes away. 
Football, soccer, basketball, baseball, track... EVERYTHING is easier than Volleyball. 
Each sport will have a "sweet spot" for you. That will be where you like to shoot from in relation to the action or team you are shooting. It's not the same for everyone... I like to shoot with the ball coming toward me in football, but the guy I shoot with likes to be lined up with the team who has the ball. We both get some amazing shots and compliment each other well, so neither is the perfect spot... It's just perfect for each of us. 
Don't forget that much of the story of the game goes on in the stands and on the sidelines or in the time out huddle. 
Don't forget the waterboy, mascot, cheerleaders, manager, statistician... 
Have fun. The kids are an awesome to work with!!!


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## tevo (Oct 26, 2011)

MLeeK said:


> 30% of keepers in Volleyball is great. I am having a HELL of a time with volleyball this year. It's my first year shooting VBall and it's harder than hell. There is someone here who does it and I can't remember who or what post it was in, but I have about a million questions for him when I get time!
> 
> My first bit of advice: Get a good neutral, 18% graycard. You can use it to set your custom white balance and to set your exposure.
> Get out of aperture priority. Either full manual or Shutter priority. Shutter is your first and foremost need. You'll be maxing out your ISO in a LOT of gyms. There are some with good lights, but most of them? SUCK. Lightroom or Photoshop CS5 and Adobe Camera Raw will save your arse in post processing high ISO images.
> ...



Great advice, thanks a lot !


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## dots (Oct 26, 2011)

Good one!



MLeeK said:


> Don't forget that much of the story of the game goes on in the stands and on the sidelines or in the time out huddle.


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## MLeeK (Oct 26, 2011)

tevo said:


> pdq5oh said:
> 
> 
> > I shot some volleyball this fall. Getting white balance correct is very important. Focus and exposure are also very important in keeping noise to a minimum. I use a D7000 so high iso is fine provided focus and exposure are good. You'll need shutter speeds in the 640-1000th range, minimum, to freeze the ball. Players turn out ok at 400-500th. The lens you're being provided won't really cut it for best results. I spent most of the time around 135mm on my 70-200, shooting wide open or at 3.2. I use all manual settings so nothing changes my exposure unless I change it. AF C with 1 or 9 pts. I also set the AEL/AFL button to AF ON. This allows me to continuously focus and removes focus lag on shutter release. The DOF preview button is set to AFL so I can lock focus quickly if needed. When shooting play at the net I shoot all vertical. Play on the floor is usually horizontal with some vertical. A battery grip is a huge help with your camera shooting vertical. Shoot in CH as there's no reason not to. Volleyball isn't real easy, nor is it terribly hard to photograph. It IS fun though. Good luck.
> ...



Using  multiple focus points will screw you every time. Stick to one. I usually use one of the center ones and depending on the sport it could be the top, middle or bottom center point. Football is the next to the bottom-it balances out the field and keeps me from having an ocean of green. For Basketball I use the upper one... 
I have found that if I am centering (I KNOW BAD ME...) I have a sense of motion or I am leaving my negative space to allow for the feel that the player is running into it or through the photo... Wrestling I fill the frame a lot or close to it, so the center point works and composure comes naturally. It may or  may not work to use the center for you, but it's the best I can find to use and still get to keep 100% control over where my focus falls.


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## tevo (Oct 26, 2011)

MLeeK said:


> tevo said:
> 
> 
> > pdq5oh said:
> ...




Multiple focus points are the antichrist, I use single. Usually to the left, middle, or top.


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## gsgary (Oct 27, 2011)

I shoot lots of sports and the only sport you want to be using shutter priority is motorsport, I always shoot in manual but aperture is the best way for field sports or any sport with a ball using shutter priority will give you under exposed shots, aperture will give you the fastest shutter speed for given aperture if it is not fast enough up your ISO


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## Big Mike (Oct 27, 2011)

> (VR off of course)


Why?
It won't help to freeze subject motion, which is certainly going to be your main goal here...but it won't hurt (besides maybe draining the battery a tiny bit faster).  

If you are having trouble freezing action, obviously a faster lens will help, but don't forget about getting good shots when the movement isn't fast enough to cause blur.  In volleyball, the player who is serving will probably be fairly still, unless it's a running jump serve.  Players who are waiting for a serve, or waiting for a dig...they are probably concentrating and 'into' the game, but they aren't moving, so you could easily get a sharp shot of them.  

And of course, if you get good, you can learn to get shots of jumpers as they are at the apex of their jump.


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## MSnowy (Oct 27, 2011)

I would also study the sport you'll be shooting. The more you know about the sport, the better you'll be able to anticipate whats going to happen. This will cut down on the spray and pray technique and increase your keepers.


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## tevo (Oct 27, 2011)

Big Mike said:
			
		

> Why?
> It won't help to freeze subject motion, which is certainly going to be your main goal here...but it won't hurt (besides maybe draining the battery a tiny bit faster).
> 
> If you are having trouble freezing action, obviously a faster lens will help, but don't forget about getting good shots when the movement isn't fast enough to cause blur.  In volleyball, the player who is serving will probably be fairly still, unless it's a running jump serve.  Players who are waiting for a serve, or waiting for a dig...they are probably concentrating and 'into' the game, but they aren't moving, so you could easily get a sharp shot of them.
> ...



Great point. I had been told that VR on slowed AF.


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## tevo (Oct 27, 2011)

MSnowy said:
			
		

> I would also study the sport you'll be shooting. The more you know about the sport, the better you'll be able to anticipate whats going to happen. This will cut down on the spray and pray technique and increase your keepers.



That's what I'm in the process of doing, thanks!


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## tevo (Oct 27, 2011)

gsgary said:
			
		

> I shoot lots of sports and the only sport you want to be using shutter priority is motorsport, I always shoot in manual but aperture is the best way for field sports or any sport with a ball using shutter priority will give you under exposed shots, aperture will give you the fastest shutter speed for given aperture if it is not fast enough up your ISO



I'll keep this in mind. Thanks a bunch!


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## MLeeK (Oct 27, 2011)

Big Mike said:


> > (VR off of course)
> 
> 
> Why?
> ...


Mike's right about VR/IS/OS... whatever everyone calls it. AND to add to mike's points you often need to turn your VR/IS/OS... off when you are shooting sports. In some instances it will actually cause an electronic vibration trying to work and you'll then see that in your images. If it isn't causing the vibration problem then it's eating up your battery and not doing you any good anyway. Your shutter speed is far beyond that of a motion blur from your hands in sports.


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## tevo (Oct 27, 2011)

MLeeK said:


> Big Mike said:
> 
> 
> > > (VR off of course)
> ...




Good point. The only thing is in Volleyball, the gym is lit really ****tily, so unless I shoot 4000 ISO minimum, I cant get my shutter over 250. So should I just comp up +1 on my meter and just reduce exposure in post?


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## MLeeK (Oct 27, 2011)

Shoot whatever ISO you need to shoot at and determine your exposure. Manual is actually easier. Once you set your exposure it doesn't change, but if your meter hits something colored it can change your exposure in a priority mode. That makes for a lot more work in post processing.
Use the gray card to set your exposure, double check it, bump it up to where you are comfortable and leave it alone. 
football is a little harder because the ends of the field are usually a different exposure and if the sun is setting or clouds are moving through it may change a little. It's still easier in manual IMO.


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## dustin0479 (Oct 27, 2011)

Off topic but your sig reminded me.

Dinner of kings, Spam Jelly and Hotdog Water!


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## pdq5oh (Oct 27, 2011)

If you bump exposure compensation to +1 you're actually lowering the shutter speed to provide more light. Use iso 6400. I do all the time and have very good results. Some noise but I could have removed it. You'll be fine using a D7000, as am I.

ISO 6400  1/640  f3.5


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## tevo (Oct 27, 2011)

EDIT: GOT A NIKON 80-200 F2.8 2TOUCH AF BLABLABLA OH MY GOD SEX


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## table1349 (Oct 28, 2011)

I shoot sports.  Ok, I lied, I shoot a lot of sports.  If you are serious about shooting sports, especially indoor sports then make life easy on yourself and invest in fast primes.  They are cheaper, and much faster than an f2.8 zoom of any range.  Outdoors my main lens is either a 400mm f2.8 or 300mm f2.8 with the second body always attached to a 70-200 f2.8.

Once I move indoors I shoot primes.  My slowest prime is a 200mm f2.  Fast primes for indoors is will allow you several advantages.  You lower you ISO considerably when you have a stop or more speed added by your glass.  You have better DOF control allowing you to have just the required DOF for the action while everything else is out of focus.  Good primes tend to be the fastest focusing glass in general unless you are using a 50mm f1.2 or 85mm f1.2 from Canon. They are not designed for sports and are not fast focusing.  Fast focusing glass can be of assistance especially if you are not using top end bodies. 

Granted, I am always shooting sideline, track side or court side, not from the stands, so I don't have near the need for a zoom indoors.


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## osumisan (Nov 6, 2011)

Volleyball is extremely challenging for the lighting in most high school gyms is lousy.  College arenas are much better.  Shutter speed must be at least 1/250 but more is better.  With my Nikon D200, I don't like to use ISO higher than 1250 due to the noise.  I have also had better results NOT shooting bursts but one or two frames at a time.  You will develop timing that way and learn how to get the shot you want.  My volleyball pictures are on about a 80% in-focus with very few being thrown out using this technique.  Position yourself to catch action either in the back row or at net, but do not try to capture both.  I will shoot a game from 3 or 4 different positions to catch all the players and to get all the different action shots that are available.  Look into an Expodisc to get your white balance set properly, for I never shoot on Auto anymore (it sucks).  

I am not having any luck uploading a pic here so here is a link to a recent photo taken in a low-lighting gym.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/5h8REORTmSxgIO3s6Svnk5f2KBo40cXtK6wJ8E8hhdc?feat=directlink


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## tevo (Nov 6, 2011)

gryphonslair99 said:


> I shoot sports.  Ok, I lied, I shoot a lot of sports.  If you are serious about shooting sports, especially indoor sports then make life easy on yourself and invest in fast primes.  They are cheaper, and much faster than an f2.8 zoom of any range.  Outdoors my main lens is either a 400mm f2.8 or 300mm f2.8 with the second body always attached to a 70-200 f2.8.
> 
> Once I move indoors I shoot primes.  My slowest prime is a 200mm f2.  Fast primes for indoors is will allow you several advantages.  You lower you ISO considerably when you have a stop or more speed added by your glass.  You have better DOF control allowing you to have just the required DOF for the action while everything else is out of focus.  Good primes tend to be the fastest focusing glass in general unless you are using a 50mm f1.2 or 85mm f1.2 from Canon. They are not designed for sports and are not fast focusing.  Fast focusing glass can be of assistance especially if you are not using top end bodies.
> 
> Granted, I am always shooting sideline, track side or court side, not from the stands, so I don't have near the need for a zoom indoors.



I also shoot sideline, and I thought that primes of that stature were like 6 grand?  



MLeeK said:


> Shoot whatever ISO you need to shoot at and determine your exposure. Manual is actually easier. Once you set your exposure it doesn't change, but if your meter hits something colored it can change your exposure in a priority mode. That makes for a lot more work in post processing.
> Use the gray card to set your exposure, double check it, bump it up to where you are comfortable and leave it alone.
> football is a little harder because the ends of the field are usually a different exposure and if the sun is setting or clouds are moving through it may change a little. It's still easier in manual IMO.



I actually shot this last football game in H.05 ISO and was getting very little noise >_>   Getting better though. I was also shooting in aperture priority, and it metered quite well. Do you have a resource on using gray cards? I am still confused.


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## MLeeK (Nov 6, 2011)

Grey card Exposure For setting exposure. 
You can actually print a grey card at home if you have a decent printer that is fairly accurate. It's not the best, but if you have a good printer it's pretty accurate! Laminate or put it between two sheets of clear contact paper.


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## imagemaker46 (Nov 6, 2011)

AF one point dead centre, all manual settings, with shutter speed the most important, white balance auto, any minor colour corrections can be done in post.  Look through books and magazines on sports, see how the sports you are going to be shooting are shot, learn the game, watch video. Understand that sports are one of the the hardest things to shoot well and expect to miss alot, before you start to miss less.  Don't worry about how many you end up deleting, think about how many you are going to keep.

If you get yourself all wrapped up worrying about the gear you're using, then you will end up missing things.  Work with what you have.  There is more to shooting sports than just action.


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## tevo (Nov 6, 2011)

sportswurlz.com SPORTSWURLZ - 11/05 Branham - Westmont

sportswurlz.com SPORTSWURLZ - 11/05 Branham - Westmont JV



Some of my work (football)


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## MLeeK (Nov 6, 2011)

I THINK I got it to work right... You have some serious calibration/color issues in that album. It's very blue. Otherwise it looks like you are getting the hang of things! It really does get easier!


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## tevo (Nov 6, 2011)

MLeeK said:


> I THINK I got it to work right... You have some serious calibration/color issues in that album. It's very blue. Otherwise it looks like you are getting the hang of things! It really does get easier!




Elaborate on this?  I believe I had my WB set to Auto, shooting in Aperture Priority on a Nikon 80-200 f/2.8.


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## spitshine (Nov 6, 2011)

Hey Tevo, 

I shoot mountain biking, skim boarding, track and field and other extreme to semi-extreme sports, and so far I agree with the suggestions above. I also agree with the one point AF choice. I shoot a canon 40d and usually choose the middle or sides when aiming for a decent thirds look. High school sports can be tricky due to the dull lighting in gyms or bright outdoor lighting, but having a wide open lens with a high iso works. I sometime shoot a bit slower just to avoid a lot of grain (iso 800-1600), but its all preference and camera familiarity. 

One question for you, how'd you go about landing your job? I really want to find a solid photography job just like yours but it seems hard to stumble upon the right people/companies. 

Thanks man and have fun!


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## MLeeK (Nov 6, 2011)

tevo said:


> MLeeK said:
> 
> 
> > I THINK I got it to work right... You have some serious calibration/color issues in that album. It's very blue. Otherwise it looks like you are getting the hang of things! It really does get easier!
> ...



Is your monitor calibrated? How do those images look on your computer? 
You are fine shooting in auto white balance especially if you are shooting in raw. Raw you can completely change the white balance in post. 
Those either were tweaked to a very cool setting or the camera erred to the cool side-which is odd in this situation. It'd actually tend to err to the side of magenta because of all of the green in the grass... All of which leads me to think your monitor is not calibrated and you have tweaked to match what you see on your monitor. It will print BLUE. very blue.


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## tevo (Nov 6, 2011)

spitshine said:


> Hey Tevo,
> 
> I shoot mountain biking, skim boarding, track and field and other extreme to semi-extreme sports, and so far I agree with the suggestions above. I also agree with the one point AF choice. I shoot a canon 40d and usually choose the middle or sides when aiming for a decent thirds look. High school sports can be tricky due to the dull lighting in gyms or bright outdoor lighting, but having a wide open lens with a high iso works. I sometime shoot a bit slower just to avoid a lot of grain (iso 800-1600), but its all preference and camera familiarity.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the advice!  I just talked to one of the photographers at SPORTSWURLZ, and he told me to email the owned because they were looking for more photographers. I just shot him an email, and we worked out the details.


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## imagemaker46 (Nov 7, 2011)

MLeeK said:


> tevo said:
> 
> 
> > MLeeK said:
> ...



Calibrating the monitor isn't going to help shoot sports, that is the point here. tevo has a long way to go before worring about the monitor, or grey cards, or thirds, all of which really don't apply to shooting sports.  It is a new area of photography, learning the basics of shooting sports is what matters. 

Outdoors, iso around 200 in sunlight, 400-800 in overcast and 1000-1600 under dark skies.  Shutter speeds no slower than 500th, aperture between 5.6-8.0.  Indoors iso that works with the light avaliable, if it's 1600-3200 then that's what you have to figure on, not ideal, shutter speeds, 400th-500th, for action, you can get away with slower speeds and better iso if you shoot around the action, the static players.  Aperture 2.8 if you have, if not work around it and shoot as fast as your lens is.  Don't over think what you're trying to do.  I won't go into shooting in the snow, a whole new set of concerns.  It shouldn't take you more than a few minutes to figure out your camera settings for each venue, especially indoors, they don't change.


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## sierramister (Nov 7, 2011)

I usually divide my football settings (for night time shooting) into zones.  If the field has 4 light poles, I have a 50 yard line zone, a 30 yard line zone, and an endzone zone.  I keep my aperture at f/2.8 and will set my ISO so I can shoot around 1/640 in the 30 yard line zone, and 1/500 in the other zones.  Given the stadium lighting, I don't see these as too blue.  

I've learned you need to be about 15 yards from the line and WAIT for the action to come your way.  It's not even worth shooting anything that goes down the other sideline.  And after I get my action shots that I want, I play around with shooting lineman, linebackers, etc.  

For some reason, I get shunned by some DB's on this forum when I suggest it, but you really need a face in sports photography.  Parents and newspaper editors don't run shots of backs. Typically (and I use it lightly), the needs to be in focus. Granted, shooting at night gives me LOTS of unfocused shots...I've learned to toss those out.

From your shots, I would suggest the following: tighter shots (including less headroom), tossing out the out-of-focus shots, and only include a distinct plays or scenes in your set (it might not be necessary to include 5 shots of the kickoff).  It looks like you've got the settings down, you just need to refine!


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## imagemaker46 (Nov 7, 2011)

I went though some of the gallery and understand that this is the first time you've really been shooting football, but what it looks like is that you are just pointing the camera and hoping that you end up with anything. What you have to do is isolate on players.  I have to say that the way the photos are uploaded doesn't help, there shouldn't be any garbage going online. it's it's not sharp or just a bad images delete it in the camera. There is lots of time during a game to chimp, at half time, just go through and dump all the images you don't want online.  If it means that you only end up with 50 strong images, that is better than 150 bad ones as well, bad brings the quality down and if people see enough of them they stop looking.  I don't know if you're getting paid to shoot, or paid based on sales.  

If you're interested in looking at some football I have over 4300 football images on my site, it should give you a better idea as to what works.  www.imagecommunications.ca  just visit any of the team galleries. The majority of them were shot on film Hope this helps.


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## gsgary (Nov 7, 2011)

imagemaker46 said:


> I went though some of the gallery and understand that this is the first time you've really been shooting football, but what it looks like is that you are just pointing the camera and hoping that you end up with anything. What you have to do is isolate on players.  I have to say that the way the photos are uploaded doesn't help, there shouldn't be any garbage going online. it's it's not sharp or just a bad images delete it in the camera. There is lots of time during a game to chimp, at half time, just go through and dump all the images you don't want online.  If it means that you only end up with 50 strong images, that is better than 150 bad ones as well, bad brings the quality down and if people see enough of them they stop looking.  I don't know if you're getting paid to shoot, or paid based on sales.
> 
> If you're interested in looking at some football I have over 4300 football images on my site, it should give you a better idea as to what works.  www.imagecommunications.ca  just visit any of the team galleries. The majority of them were shot on film Hope this helps.




Love your film shots, but people on here will probably say they noisy not knowing they were shot on film


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## imagemaker46 (Nov 7, 2011)

gsgary said:


> imagemaker46 said:
> 
> 
> > I went though some of the gallery and understand that this is the first time you've really been shooting football, but what it looks like is that you are just pointing the camera and hoping that you end up with anything. What you have to do is isolate on players. I have to say that the way the photos are uploaded doesn't help, there shouldn't be any garbage going online. it's it's not sharp or just a bad images delete it in the camera. There is lots of time during a game to chimp, at half time, just go through and dump all the images you don't want online. If it means that you only end up with 50 strong images, that is better than 150 bad ones as well, bad brings the quality down and if people see enough of them they stop looking. I don't know if you're getting paid to shoot, or paid based on sales.
> ...



Thanks for the comment. I've had some people make comments about them, and that they have a lot of noise. I explain that it's not just noise, but it's old school noise.  Different generation and in everyway tougher than shooting digital.


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## MLeeK (Nov 7, 2011)

imagemaker46 said:


> Calibrating the monitor isn't going to help _*shoot*_ sports, that is the point here. tevo has a long way to go before worring about the monitor, or grey cards, or thirds, all of which really don't apply to shooting sports.  It is a new area of photography, learning the basics of shooting sports is what matters.
> 
> Outdoors, iso around 200 in sunlight, 400-800 in overcast and 1000-1600 under dark skies.  Shutter speeds no slower than 500th, aperture between 5.6-8.0.  Indoors iso that works with the light avaliable, if it's 1600-3200 then that's what you have to figure on, not ideal, shutter speeds, 400th-500th, for action, you can get away with slower speeds and better iso if you shoot around the action, the static players.  Aperture 2.8 if you have, if not work around it and shoot as fast as your lens is.  Don't over think what you're trying to do.  I won't go into shooting in the snow, a whole new set of concerns.  It shouldn't take you more than a few minutes to figure out your camera settings for each venue, especially indoors, they don't change.



You are correct in that the monitor calibration is not going to help in _SHOOTING_ sports, but you certainly aren't going to sell any images if the color is incorrect and doesn't look good on them either. Tevo is jumping into this head first and learning on the fly, so it's ALL got to come together. In the end the calibration and white balance do matter. 
I am not talking about using the grey card for setting white balance, but we discussed using it for setting exposure and determining your bump up in exposure, so... little different there. 
Rule of thirds is nice, but you're right-it doesn't matter. It's the emotion and action that matters in sports. 


I'd also like someone to explain to me (because I am of a different mind that could very well be WRONG...) why you would choose aperture priority for sports when you know you are already going to have to shoot wide open? This is my line of thought (and like I said... it could be really wrong) in many to most situations you already know you are going to have to shoot wide open-inside a gym or on the night fields-so your aperture isn't in question ever. Why would you choose to keep an eye on what the camera is deciding for shutter speed if you know your aperture is going to max out on you? In which case I would choose to go with shutter priority. The camera can't screw up to awfully bad if you are hitting the wide open spot on the aperture. It's a non point. Not running the risk of the shutter dropping through the gutter would be more important to me, personally. 

I shoot sports in full manual. It's easier than a priority mode for me and here's my thoughts on that: I know I am going to be forced to shoot wide open in most situations. I know I need to have a shutter of 1/640 or faster depending on the sport. That's the 2 main elements of your exposure right there. I also know that if I am on the football field at night I am going to max out my ISO. 
With a priority mode I had more nightmares in post processing. The meter may have hit something dark and chose settings based on that or vice-a-versa. I had to fix and tweak constantly in post. Now I keep an eye on where my meter hits when it's reading the grass or the gym floor. I know where I want those things to fall in the meter (grass is about +1 or +1/2 and a gym floor is about a +1.5 to +2 depending.) As long as I check my meter here and there in changing light (football) making sure it's reading where I want it to, I am fine to shoot. In a gym your lighting never changes. Once you get one perfect exposure you don't need to meter again at all. I found that if I hit the white jerseys in a game I had dark images to fix and if I hit the navy or dark jerseys I had way too bright images to fix. It took me longer in post. Now I know my exposure is the same across the board. I can apply one preset that covers all of the images, delete the crap and I am done.

Could I be doing this differently that would make it still easier yet on me?

Edit to add: I am a bit like you in that I know if I am under the lights and I have to be in the end zone I have to change my shutter and/or ISO to accomodate for the dark, lack of light there. It's so much habit, just like your different zones that I just click according to where I am and what I know I need-that came with a little experience...


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## imagemaker46 (Nov 7, 2011)

MLeeK said:


> imagemaker46 said:
> 
> 
> > Calibrating the monitor isn't going to help _*shoot*_ sports, that is the point here. tevo has a long way to go before worring about the monitor, or grey cards, or thirds, all of which really don't apply to shooting sports. It is a new area of photography, learning the basics of shooting sports is what matters.
> ...



I think in my post I gave a pretty good idea as too what the exposures will be based on light.  Yes indoors, if you have a 2.8 lens to work with then that's what you can work with, I shoot some stuff at a slightly slower speed and at 3.2-3.5.  Shooting outdoors using field lights I work within the brightest points on the field, end zones tend to be in near total dark.

From what I've seen of the work tevo has online, he is really a  long way away from selling much, regardless of the colour.  It's not a cheap shot at his work, he is learning on the fly, but personally I would not take on a photo assignment that I couldn't do well.  He has to learn and that is good, but having people see all of the garbage that should have been deleted isn't going to do him any favours.


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## tevo (Nov 7, 2011)

MLeeK said:


> tevo said:
> 
> 
> > MLeeK said:
> ...



I have not calibrated my monitor, do you have a resource on how to do this? I shot in Jpg, small size. If it were up to me, ALL my images would be processed, but my orders are to shoot approx. 1500 images per game (JV and Varsity, and then to (for now) hand off my SD card to my superior. Honestly, set aside experience in shooting sports, I understand my camera more than most of the other photographers, and with that being said, most images on that site aren't that much better than mine - again, set aside composition (I am still learning how to compose sports shots)



imagemaker46 said:


> MLeeK said:
> 
> 
> > tevo said:
> ...



1000-1600 under dark skies? I get 80-100 shutter wide open at night @ that iso..  I try to keep my shutter around 500, and I generally keep my aperture wide open. IMO my pictures were lit decently, besides having a blue-ish tint to them. These will not get printed at any point, the company just uploads the pictures for players to look at.



sierramister said:


> I usually divide my football settings (for night time shooting) into zones.  If the field has 4 light poles, I have a 50 yard line zone, a 30 yard line zone, and an endzone zone.  I keep my aperture at f/2.8 and will set my ISO so I can shoot around 1/640 in the 30 yard line zone, and 1/500 in the other zones.  Given the stadium lighting, I don't see these as too blue.
> 
> I've learned you need to be about 15 yards from the line and WAIT for the action to come your way.  It's not even worth shooting anything that goes down the other sideline.  And after I get my action shots that I want, I play around with shooting lineman, linebackers, etc.
> 
> ...



Thats a good idea, do you just use the U1 and U2 (or canon version) modes? I try to keep faces when I can, and if it were up to me I would delete all the OOF shots before I upload.. unfortunately, I was told to just hand off my SD card after the game so my superior could upload it. I didn't have time to go through all my shots during the game.



imagemaker46 said:


> I went though some of the gallery and understand that this is the first time you've really been shooting football, but what it looks like is that you are just pointing the camera and hoping that you end up with anything. What you have to do is isolate on players.  I have to say that the way the photos are uploaded doesn't help, there shouldn't be any garbage going online. it's it's not sharp or just a bad images delete it in the camera. There is lots of time during a game to chimp, at half time, just go through and dump all the images you don't want online.  If it means that you only end up with 50 strong images, that is better than 150 bad ones as well, bad brings the quality down and if people see enough of them they stop looking.  I don't know if you're getting paid to shoot, or paid based on sales.
> 
> If you're interested in looking at some football I have over 4300 football images on my site, it should give you a better idea as to what works.  www.imagecommunications.ca  just visit any of the team galleries. The majority of them were shot on film Hope this helps.



I will take a look! And I have somewhat of a spray and pray method. I was told to shoot in Ch, and try to "capture the play" as much as possible. I dont think they are looking for artistic, well composed shots - moreso just to show what happened during the game. And yes, if it were up to me, none of the non-keepers would be online. I am getting paid per game. As far as I know, I am the only new recruit they have, and to my knowledge the other photographers are providing what the company wants. With that said, compare my images to some of the others and tell me what differences you see. I will be talking to the other photographers and getting C&C from them on composition. 



MLeeK said:


> imagemaker46 said:
> 
> 
> > Calibrating the monitor isn't going to help _*shoot*_ sports, that is the point here. tevo has a long way to go before worring about the monitor, or grey cards, or thirds, all of which really don't apply to shooting sports.  It is a new area of photography, learning the basics of shooting sports is what matters.
> ...




I will keep this in mind. I haven't tried shutter priority, and Manual seemed to take too much time - but I guess it really doesn't take that much time. I have to shoot small size .jpgs, since I have 2 16GB cards, which only hold about 6000 shots (RAW would be much too large). Any tips on metering for sports (more specifically football)



imagemaker46 said:


> MLeeK said:
> 
> 
> > imagemaker46 said:
> ...



I agree - I wish that they would "censor" what gets uploaded - but it's not up to me. And I am not trying to sell shots (yet), this job is beneficial to me because a) need money b) the experience will be good for me. My only goal is to improve, which will come with practice / hours of reading 12 page posts on TPF :lmao:


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## imagemaker46 (Nov 7, 2011)

Tevo, a few things, work on editing the images in camera, your boss won't know and if you hand him a card with better images then it looks good on you. I've been shooting professional football for over 35 years, and have never shot even close to 1500 frames during one game, I would usually come home with 600-800 frames(with digital, in the film days it would have been 10-15 rolls of 36exp) and this is the stuff that has already gone through an in-camera edit. I would end up keeping 500 total. I find the idea behind the group you are working for a little unusual in that they are just uploading everything including all the garbage, it doesn't say much about them and quality control, but seems more of an amateur operation, that will end up doing more harm to the photographers than good.  Inspite of what they want you to shoot, you are still the one holding the camera and can do some nice single player action as well. With football you don't need the ball in every frame, there is always so much going on if you really look. Pointing a camera at the field and hoping to come up with something is no way to get better.


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## MLeeK (Nov 7, 2011)

I am SHOCKED at the number of images they're wanting per game. WHAT THE HECK??? I over-shoot and I am looking at 250-500 per game. WOWZA. For a 2 hour long game that is more than 12 frames for every minute. Who the heck thought that up? That's beyond unreasonable. I don't even come up with that when I have a second shooter at a game! 
Then the whole idea of just handing the card over so they can display the good, bad and ugly and they can edit it any way they want to? OH HELL NO. That won't reflect well on you in most situations and obviously it doesn't here. 
You really shouldn't be shooting in the small sized jpeg. SD cards are CHEAP now, get yourself a few more. I can shoot a full game on one 16G card in raw, but they want a shxt ton more than any normal person would shoot, so... you're going to need 4 to shoot 1500 shots. D7000, right?


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## tevo (Nov 7, 2011)

MLeeK said:


> I am SHOCKED at the number of images they're wanting per game. WHAT THE HECK??? I over-shoot and I am looking at 250-500 per game. WOWZA. For a 2 hour long game that is more than 12 frames for every minute. Who the heck thought that up? That's beyond unreasonable. I don't even come up with that when I have a second shooter at a game!
> Then the whole idea of just handing the card over so they can display the good, bad and ugly and they can edit it any way they want to? OH HELL NO. That won't reflect well on you in most situations and obviously it doesn't here.
> You really shouldn't be shooting in the small sized jpeg. SD cards are CHEAP now, get yourself a few more. I can shoot a full game on one 16G card in raw, but they want a shxt ton more than any normal person would shoot, so... you're going to need 4 to shoot 1500 shots. D7000, right?




Well I can easily fit 4000 large size files between two cards.. but they want me to shoot small (?.?). And yes, they told me at least 1500 per game. And yes, D7000.


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## imagemaker46 (Nov 8, 2011)

I hope the money is worth it.  I don't understand the smaller size except that it makes it faster for them to upload that many.  This group sounds like the "fast food" photographers that show up at events, like fast food, it's cheap and isn't great, but they don't care because the photographers that produce quality don't do these events. Do they have more than one photographer covering the same games as you?


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## MLeeK (Nov 8, 2011)

I'd be getting out of there like a bat out of hell. I know it's extra money, but it's YOUR reputation that is on those photos....


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## tevo (Nov 8, 2011)

imagemaker46 said:


> Tevo, a few things, work on editing the images in camera, your boss won't know and if you hand him a card with better images then it looks good on you. I've been shooting professional football for over 35 years, and have never shot even close to 1500 frames during one game, I would usually come home with 600-800 frames(with digital, in the film days it would have been 10-15 rolls of 36exp) and this is the stuff that has already gone through an in-camera edit. I would end up keeping 500 total. I find the idea behind the group you are working for a little unusual in that they are just uploading everything including all the garbage, it doesn't say much about them and quality control, but seems more of an amateur operation, that will end up doing more harm to the photographers than good.  Inspite of what they want you to shoot, you are still the one holding the camera and can do some nice single player action as well. With football you don't need the ball in every frame, there is always so much going on if you really look. Pointing a camera at the field and hoping to come up with something is no way to get better.



Yeah, this kind of dawned upon me yesterday, I started thinking about singling out players / positions and shooting them. And trust me, if it were up to me, I would only end up with 600-800 shots a game, but they want at least a thousand. As for the quality of the other photographers shots - did you take a look at some of the other albums?  Thanks for all the help, btw!



imagemaker46 said:


> I hope the money is worth it.  I don't understand the smaller size except that it makes it faster for them to upload that many.  This group sounds like the "fast food" photographers that show up at events, like fast food, it's cheap and isn't great, but they don't care because the photographers that produce quality don't do these events. Do they have more than one photographer covering the same games as you?



Yeah, the small size is just for uploading purposes. And I am inclined to agree with you, but it's something. Generally no, I am the only one.



MLeeK said:


> I'd be getting out of there like a bat out of hell. I know it's extra money, but it's YOUR reputation that is on those photos....



If it were extra money, I probably would. But as of right now, it is the only money I am making, and my mom is out of a job. And I am hoping that the experience will be beneficial to me. As for my reputation, besides those who know that I shoot for sportswurlz at my school (these people were happy with the images I produced, which says something about the expectation), my name isn't anywhere on those shots, and (at least those 2 albums) I don't plan on trying to sell any of those shots / advertise them. It was my first football game. I am also supposed to sit down with my superior and go over the pictures at some point, so he can tell me what to do differently / what kinds of things I should be capturing.


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## pdq5oh (Nov 8, 2011)

I've been shooting a lot of HS sports the last few years. What I'm about to say is in no way a reflection on you. Your employer sounds like an operation local to me. There's a "photography" company that employs about anyone to get their shots. Many of them are young girls who know nothing about photographing sports other than point & shoot. They're hardly ever in proper position. They walk right in front of other photogs, then stand & don't shoot. Take 5000 pics and hope a dozen are useable, barely. I've seen their stuff hanging in the athletic office at the local HS. I'd be embarrassed to have my name on them. I realize you have to provide what your employer wants but, your resume won't look great unless you can edit it's content. And I'm amazed anyone would want to wade through 5000 photos looking for a few keepers. As others have said, I shoot raw as I can fix white balance as it shifts due to light pulsation. And I typically have 350-500 shots at the end of a game, and cull that to 150-200 that I'm proud to say are mine. Of those, I'd expect a few to be truly looked on with a wow slipping out, ha. 
As to camera settings. I shoot all in manual. I know that way nothing changes unless I change it. Shutter speed is most important to me as it makes or breaks the particular feel I want. Aperture is next as I use it to control depth of field and separation from the background. Iso is set to accommodate everything else. I know the lighting differences and requirements from end zone to end zone. With respect to white balance, I use auto if I haven't worked out a good, solid setting for a particular field. White balance is handled in post when necessary.


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## tevo (Nov 8, 2011)

pdq5oh said:
			
		

> I've been shooting a lot of HS sports the last few years. What I'm about to say is in no way a reflection on you. Your employer sounds like an operation local to me. There's a "photography" company that employs about anyone to get their shots. Many of them are young girls who know nothing about photographing sports other than point & shoot. They're hardly ever in proper position. They walk right in front of other photogs, then stand & don't shoot. Take 5000 pics and hope a dozen are useable, barely. I've seen their stuff hanging in the athletic office at the local HS. I'd be embarrassed to have my name on them. I realize you have to provide what your employer wants but, your resume won't look great unless you can edit it's content. And I'm amazed anyone would want to wade through 5000 photos looking for a few keepers. As others have said, I shoot raw as I can fix white balance as it shifts due to light pulsation. And I typically have 350-500 shots at the end of a game, and cull that to 150-200 that I'm proud to say are mine. Of those, I'd expect a few to be truly looked on with a wow slipping out, ha.
> As to camera settings. I shoot all in manual. I know that way nothing changes unless I change it. Shutter speed is most important to me as it makes or breaks the particular feel I want. Aperture is next as I use it to control depth of field and separation from the background. Iso is set to accommodate everything else. I know the lighting differences and requirements from end zone to end zone. With respect to white balance, I use auto if I haven't worked out a good, solid setting for a particular field. White balance is handled in post when necessary.



Well, I think I will shoot what my employer wants, and take the ones with potential / good ones and keep them and use them in my name. Sportswurlz definitely employs people with little knowledge of their cameras - 2 of the 3 photos knew next to nothing about how the camera worked - they just knew to keep their shutter at 500 and keep the "other number " at 4


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## BigAngel925 (Dec 7, 2011)

Hi!

I'm a newbie who just started taking pictures of my daughter's Basketball games and they come out terrible.  I have been trying so many different settings.  "action" settings, etc.  Could it be the camera that I am using?  I am using a Canon G12...

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

THANKS!


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## imagemaker46 (Dec 7, 2011)

While it is an excellent point and shoot camera, with lots of bells and whistles, that is pretty much what it is, a point and shoot.  It's not the ideal choice for shooting sports.  If you could post the shot you feel is the best, there may be some suggestions that could help.


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## MLeeK (Dec 7, 2011)

BigAngel925 said:


> Hi!
> 
> I'm a newbie who just started taking pictures of my daughter's Basketball games and they come out terrible.  I have been trying so many different settings.  "action" settings, etc.  Could it be the camera that I am using?  I am using a Canon G12...
> 
> ...



First, it's probably better if you ask your question in it's own post.

Your camera is just fine for what you want to do. You just need to learn a little bit about how to use it and what a camera needs from you in order to do what you want it to do.
A camera records light. How it gets that light is done by balancing 3 different controls: Aperture-how wide the hole in the lens opens up. Wide open=more light flows through. Closed down=less light flows through. Shutter speed-how fast or slow your shutter opens and closes again. Open a long time=lots of light. Open short time=little light.  ISO-how sensitive your sensor is to light low ISO number=low sensitivity. High ISO number=highly sensitive.
Those 3 things control something else too: Aperture-think about when you squint your eyes how you can make more come into focus/you see people with bad vision squinting to make things easier to read. Same with aperture if you close it down more of the scene from the front to back will be in sharp focus. Don't forget that it is reducing the amount of light that can fit through it as you close down...
Shutter speed controls motion. If your shutter is open for a long time your subject can move or your hand can move. That is recorded as a blur in your photo (Probably what you are getting)
ISO-the higher the ISO the more chance you have at getting "noise" or grain. 

Now you can look at your images and decide a few things: Are they too dark? are they blurry from something moving? Are they fuzzy or grainy looking? 
I will venture to guess that they are blurry and probably dark. You need to give your camera more light somehow. 
You need a fast shutter speed with sports. Probably a shutter of about 1/500 or 1/640. You can put your camera in shutter priority and put those numbers in as your needed shutter speed and the camera choose the aperture for you just fine. 
You will need to enable Auto ISO or set your ISO to about 2000-3200 (more sensitive to the light) depending on how dark the gym is. If it's a dark gym 3200... If it's a bright gym 2000 might work. If it's a really dark gym you may  have to try to drop your shutter speed to 1/400 or even 1/320 (which might get you a bit of blur in running feet, the ball, etc) and ISO 3200.

Play a bit with that. Print that last paragraph if you need to take it with you.


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## pdq5oh (Dec 7, 2011)

tevo, you may want to be sure you're allowed to keep pictures, for your own use, you've taken while working on this job. I would be surprised if they're not all the property of your employer.


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