# Elijah Craig - Small Batch 12 Year Bourbon



## AgentDrex (Dec 11, 2012)

A sample of my usual noisy photo, this time of some bourbon my buddy brought over to share a few weeks ago (apologies if I posted this elsewhere already):


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## fjrabon (Dec 11, 2012)

great bourbon.  It's my go to daily drinker.


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## AgentDrex (Dec 11, 2012)

I had the misconception all these years that all bourbon tasted like that crap Jack Daniels and Windsor.  If only I had known that there was something out there as sweet and smooth as Elijah Craig, I would have been drinking this instead.

EDIT:  Can't believe I goofed like that...posted this and didn't realize I had written scotch accidentally...thinking about glenlivet for some reason...just finished up the bottle of that so I suppose that was on my mind...edited the correction in...my bad


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## fjrabon (Dec 11, 2012)

their 18 year old is sublime, a bit more expensive, but still not terribly expensive for 18 year old bourbon.


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## thetrue (Dec 11, 2012)

Bourbon? I like bourbon. I'm a Knob Creek fan, myself.


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## fjrabon (Dec 11, 2012)

If I were forced to only drink 4 bourbons ever again, I'd probably have to go:
Wathens, Booker's, Elijah Craig 12, Blanton's


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## TATTRAT (Dec 11, 2012)

Bookers, Bakers, makers Mark or Knob Creek are my preferred winter sipping bourbons. The Elijah Craig though, for a mid priced, mid-grade bourbon is really palatable. It has a nice sweetness to it that helps it make a GREAT Stonewall, if you are mixing. As noted above, the 18yo single barrel is nice, very nice actually considering the price point.

1 jigger and one rock. . . hell, I could go for one right about now to be honest.


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## thetrue (Dec 11, 2012)

I'm young still, I'll grow in to the others, don't rush me!


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## fjrabon (Dec 12, 2012)

Here's what I'll be partaking in over the next couple of days, since you mentioned scotch:



Talisker 25 by franklinrabon, on Flickr


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## TATTRAT (Dec 12, 2012)

Smokey and peaty. With a 25 year age, and bottled 8 years ago, should be a nice sipping whiskey. I rather enjoyed most of the Scotches I had from the isle of Skye. My Dad and I had a great month long Scotland tour we promised ourselves, and hitting Scotch distilleries was actually the priority of the trip. An AMAZING time.

. . .I had a night, well about 4 years ago now, lets just say that things got really out of hand, the Scotch was flowing as easy as the conversation, fast forward to the next day: Worst. Hangover. Ever. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu. . . even now, just the smell of Scotch turns me off. Not sure if it was the Scotch, or the Cigars that did it, but holy hell, I woke up feeling like a Haitian refugee camp had spent the night in my mouth, I could feel my pulse behind my eyeballs, seeing light hurt, and though I am quite sure people were talking in normal tones, I felt like EVERYTHING was screaming at me. Couldn't even hold down water. Great times!


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## Tuffythepug (Dec 12, 2012)

I'll have to give the Elijah Craig a try.  I generally keep a few bottles around for Sunday afternoon jams at my place.  My bandmate's tastes are not necessarily refined to the degree that would warrant breaking out the good stuff; Let's face it if you're just going to splash some coke in it anyhow, what's the point ?  Note in this picture that I keep my personal choice in the background.


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## TATTRAT (Dec 12, 2012)

Yeah, if you are mixing, no sense in putting the money out. . . hell, after the third drink, it really doesn't matter what it is, lol. I do love me some Makers Mark. Such a nice, smooth, easy drinking Whik'key. Makes a fine Manhattan too.


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## thetrue (Dec 12, 2012)

Maker's mark is what I go for if the track runs out of mine. It is quite smooth, especially after you've been enjoying some drink for most of the day already


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## AgentDrex (Dec 12, 2012)

I hear ya about the mixing.  No need to bust out the good bottle if you're going to pour Cola into it.  I'll have to try Talisker some time.  Maybe a friend or two will go in on a bottle with me.  I'm a Vodka drinker first and fore-most however, having just been introduced to good scotch and bourbon since late last year. I'll post this crappy photo of my semi-rare bottle of Jewel of Russia Ultra (this was taken December of 2010 so I was still learning.  White balance was set off of a sheet of 90 bright copy paper under flourescent lighting and background was the copy paper I used, then over-exposed a tad to hide the sides of the paper as they overlapped to create the background):



If you look at the leading left edge of the bottle, you will notice the overlapping paper.  I had no idea what I was doing and know a lot more now, so will try to re-shoot this as I still have the bottle luckily.  They only sell 20,000 of them world-wide, each bottle being hand-painted with four different styles a year, so in actuality, there are more than likely only 5,000 of these bottles in existence.


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## fjrabon (Dec 12, 2012)

I drank a lot of makers in college. Now, eh, I mean its okay I guess. Wheated bourbons seem to lack character to my tastes. Their new makers 46 is pretty good though. I thought it would be gimmicky, but you really can taste the flavor of the added oak staves. Plus I think it's aged better. 

By the way, Elijah Craig 12 is as expensive or more than makers, so it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to get it to save your makers. EC 12 is cheap... For 12 year old bourbon. It's still definitely NOT a cheap bourbon. My favorite cheap-ish mixing bourbon is Jim Beam 7 year old.


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## Tuffythepug (Dec 12, 2012)

fjrabon said:


> I drank a lot of makers in college. Now, eh, I mean its okay I guess. Wheated bourbons seem to lack character to my tastes. Their new makers 46 is pretty good though. I thought it would be gimmicky, but you really can taste the flavor of the added oak staves. Plus I think it's aged better.
> 
> By the way, Elijah Craig 12 is as expensive or more than makers, so it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to get it to save your makers. EC 12 is cheap... For 12 year old bourbon. It's still definitely NOT a cheap bourbon. My favorite cheap-ish mixing bourbon is Jim Beam 7 year old.




Yeah, I wasn't clear in my post.   I wouldn't be buying the Elijah Craig as a substitute for the usual fare I offer the crew:   I expect I'd give it a taste and keep it in my "private reserve" category with the Maker's Mark.    I have a good friend who buys Evan Williams Bourbon by the half-gallon;  far too regularly, unfortunately.   But he mixes it with diet 7up...   a concoction he just calls his "cowboy drink" for some reason.   I'd certainly wouldn't be tempted to offer him the "good stuff".


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## fjrabon (Dec 12, 2012)

Tuffythepug said:
			
		

> Yeah, I wasn't clear in my post.   I wouldn't be buying the Elijah Craig as a substitute for the usual fare I offer the crew:   I expect I'd give it a taste and keep it in my "private reserve" category with the Maker's Mark.    I have a good friend who buys Evan Williams Bourbon by the half-gallon;  far too regularly, unfortunately.   But he mixes it with diet 7up...   a concoction he just calls his "cowboy drink" for some reason.   I'd certainly wouldn't be tempted to offer him the "good stuff".



When I worked at a bar in college, we had this one kid who drank Johnny Walker blue mixed with sprite. Also keep in mind this was a college bar and we only had plastic cups. We charged him 69 dollars per drink.

And he loved calling it the '69er' both to let everybody know how much his drinks cost and because he'd laugh at 69er every time.


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## cgipson1 (Dec 12, 2012)

I will stick to my RedBreast 12!


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## JAC526 (Dec 12, 2012)

I want to share mine:







I love me some Basil Hayden's.  Its got more rye in it and has a nice peppery flavor.


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## JAC526 (Dec 12, 2012)

fjrabon said:


> Tuffythepug said:
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Hello trust fund baby.


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## Tuffythepug (Dec 12, 2012)

JAC526 said:


> I want to share mine:
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Oh, I love that stuff.   I had a friend who owned a bar and she specialized in very fine whiskys.   She gave me a lecture on the finer points of drinking the stuff. And since she had a couple of fine points herself (sorry for the sexist remark ladies) I was happy to listen and let her pour me samples of her favorites of which the was the top of the heap.


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## AgentDrex (Dec 12, 2012)

> When I worked at a bar in college, we had this one kid who drank Johnny  Walker blue mixed with sprite. Also keep in mind this was a college bar  and we only had plastic cups. We charged him 69 dollars per drink.
> 
> And he loved calling it the '69er' both to let everybody know how much  his drinks cost and because he'd laugh at 69er every time.


WHAT??!!!  Pour him a whole bottle or what?  Geezuuuus!



> Oh, I love that stuff.   I had a friend who owned a bar and she  specialized in very fine whiskys.   She gave me a lecture on the finer  points of drinking the stuff. And since she had a couple of fine points  herself (sorry for the sexist remark ladies) I was happy to listen and  let her pour me samples of her favorites of which the was the top of the  heap.


Since this has become the whiskey/whisky thread, would you be willing to give us the finer points of drinking the stuff? I'd be interested in learning.


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## JAC526 (Dec 12, 2012)

There is only one rule when drinking really high quality bourbon (for me at least) and that is just drink it neat.

Don't put water in it to "open it up" and for ****s sake please don't put ice in it.

Just pour and drink...so simple...so easy....so delicious.


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## Tuffythepug (Dec 12, 2012)

Well, Craig, I am the furthest thing from an expert.  And my tutelage on the finer points was some years ago.  But here's what I can pass on.   as JAC526 said, it should be drunk neat; no ice, no water, no anything.  And it should be sipped;  not gulped in one shot.   With bourbon there's no discussion of the "smokiness" in the taste as there often is with scotch.
Blues or Jazz is the music of choice when imbibing the amber nectar of the gods but that's a matter of personal choice.  Blues for me.  and then.....

Pour, sip, repeat.


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## AgentDrex (Dec 12, 2012)

Then I do well, I never ice it or water it


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## fjrabon (Dec 12, 2012)

I'm going to disagree on the 'never ice it or water it' especially starting out. At first the pure alcohol will overwhelm the taste if you drink I that way before you're used to it. This is especially the case if you're drinking barrel proof bourbon, which is MEANT to be drank with a little water or ice. 

Sure, don't overdo the water or especially the ice. Too much ice especially kills the flavor. Same for water. However, ultimately it should be drank to taste. If all you can taste is alcohol, you're doing it wrong. Similarly, if all you can taste is water with a whiskey hint to it, you're also doing it wrong. 

The 'no water for any whiskey ever' people fail to understand if you're drinking pretty much any whiskey that's under 120 proof, water has been added. How much water needs to be added entirely depends on the individual drinker's palette.  I typically like my bourbon around 80 proof, meaning bourbon stronger than that ill either add a little water or ice. 80 proof bourbon I tend to drink neat. But I also have about 50 whiskeys in my bar and usually have a dram most nights. My palette is probably better able to handle whiskey than most. 

Most people who don't drink whiskey regularly probably need to add just a touch of water. Otherwise you're not getting all the subtle flavors that differentiate from great bourbon and good bourbon. You're just mostly tasting alcohol which is overwhelming your taste system, and alcohol tastes the same no matter what it came from. 

How do you figure out how much water to add?  Taste it. Does it taste like a kick to the head and that's about it?  Or can you taste caramel, vanilla and maybe cinnamon flavors (the tastes of the caramelized sap from the charred oak barrels and the rye gives it the cinnamony kick). If you can't taste those flavors then add a bit of distilled water to tame down the alcohol a bit so you can pick up on the subtlety. A lot of people laugh when people say they can taste x, y and z flavors. Some people surely make things up when they taste things like eastern sugar plum extract. But you should be able to taste bourbons key tones. If you can't you're either drinking it with too much water or ice or not enough water or ice and are having your taste system overwhelmed. 

Now the dumbest thing of all are 'whiskey stones' which have it completely backwards. To get the full flavor most whiskey should be drank around 60-65 degrees give or take (ie European room temperature). Whiskey stones mean the alcohol AND the temperature kill all the subtle flavor. It's literally the worst of all worlds as far as actually tasting premium whiskey flavor.


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## JAC526 (Dec 12, 2012)

Sorry but I'm going to have to disagree.  Barrel aged bourbon (like Blanton's or Bookers) is NOT meant to be drank with water and especially not with ice.  Ice literally crushes any flavor (caramel, vanilla, cinnamon, pine etc) that a fine bourbon may have.

I understand that to get a uniform proof water is added to some bourbons.  I just personally don't like adding any more water.  I have drank a lot of bourbon (I used to live in Kentucky) and for me personally barrel proof bourbon is best without water added.

Others will disagree.


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## fjrabon (Dec 12, 2012)

JAC526 said:
			
		

> Sorry but I'm going to have to disagree.  Barrel aged bourbon (like Blanton's or Bookers) is NOT meant to be drank with water and especially not with ice.  Ice literally crushes any flavor (caramel, vanilla, cinnamon, pine etc) that a fine bourbon may have.
> 
> I understand that to get a uniform proof water is added to some bourbons.  I just personally don't like adding any more water.  I have drank a lot of bourbon (I used to live in Kentucky) and for me personally barrel proof bourbon is best without water added.
> 
> Others will disagree.



Well, Fred Noe and Jim Rutledge disagree. Sure, YOUR palette might be able to handle 130 proof bourbon. But most can't. Even booker noe admitted that the only reason he was able to drink barrel proof bourbon was because he literally drank bourbon every day for a living and that most people should add distilled water to suit their palettes.  He specifically said that the vast majority of drinkers should drink his namesake bourbon with a splash of distilled water, and that when he had time to add distilled water, that was even how he himself preferred it. 

Further, Blantons IS NOT barrel proof. It's around 90-92 proof depending on the batch. It is typically out of the barrel around 125-130 proof and then water is added to the master distiller's taste. 

When Bill Samuels was once asked why he made Maker's Mark at 90 proof when it came out (at the time pretty much all bourbon but wild turkey was 80 proof) he said "we basically considered that 90 proof was as high as anybody would ever want to drink bourbon, and if they wanted a lower proof, like most drinkers do, they can add water to their own personal preference instead of having it dictated by me or anybody else, it's a concept of personal freedom.  If they want strong bourbon they can have it, or of they want to open it up, they can have that too."

Edit: just to be clear, I'm not saying you're wrong for drinking bourbon neat. I'm saying you're wrong for claiming that is how bourbon should be drank by everybody. Bourbon should be drank to taste. For most people this means adding a bit of water (preferably distilled). For you it may not.


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## JAC526 (Dec 12, 2012)

Fair enough. I like it straight. Others may not.

I've tried Booker's straight and with water. To me its better straight.

EDIT:  There are a lot of big names in your post.  I've only every bought Blanton's once and never even checked the proof.  I just remember it as being oh so smooth and wonderful.


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## Tony S (Dec 12, 2012)

Why is there so much left in the bottle?  A small bottle like that should be gone..... poof.  lol


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## fjrabon (Dec 12, 2012)

JAC526 said:
			
		

> Fair enough. I like it straight. Others may not.
> 
> I've tried Booker's straight and with water. To me its better straight.
> 
> EDIT:  There are a lot of big names in your post.  I've only every bought Blanton's once and never even checked the proof.  I just remember it as being oh so smooth and wonderful.



It's not so much about big names. My point was merely that they're master distillers and thus are the people who make the bourbon to be mixed with water for most people. I'm not name dropping as much as stating that its literally incorrect to say that booker's, for example, was made to be drank neat. Sure you can enjoy it that way, but it was in fact made so that most people would add water to it. The person who literally designed it and tasted it and approved it said as much. That is, it's not my opinion that bourbon is designed so that most people would add water to it, it's simply a fact. 

Didn't mean to jump all over you, but it does bother me when people say bourbon should only ever be drank neat and if you do it otherwise you're doing it wrong. For most people that will A) cause them to not like it and B) prevents them from actually tasting bourbon's flavors.  

Bourbon should be enjoyed at the proof your palette can handle. If the alcohol overwhelms your palette you should add water to it. It's that simple.


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## JAC526 (Dec 12, 2012)

fjrabon said:


> JAC526 said:
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I totally agree with you.  It is a heated debate among a lot of serious bourbon drinkers whether to add water or not.  I personally don't like adding water.  I feel like it just dilutes the flavors.

However, I will stand firm in saying that ice ruins bourbon.


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## fjrabon (Dec 12, 2012)

JAC526 said:
			
		

> I totally agree with you.  It is a heated debate among a lot of serious bourbon drinkers whether to add water or not.  I personally don't like adding water.  I feel like it just dilutes the flavors.
> 
> However, I will stand firm in saying that ice ruins bourbon.



I don't think ice ruins bourbon as much as temperature temporarily ruins bourbon. Our tongues are able to taste best at about 65 degrees. So if you are drinking bourbon that is at 40 degrees because you packed it with ice you perceive a lot less flavor, you might as well be drinking grain alcohol mixed with water at that point. However, if the bourbon starts at 80 degrees (perhaps you're outside in the summer or in a warm bar) a single ice cube can in fact enhance flavor. As above about 70 degrees the alcohol flavor again begins to overwhelm the more subtle flavors that are the main reason for drinking great bourbon. 

Perhaps more important though is avoiding tap water. The amount of fluorine does really kill flavor. Filtered, or even better distilled water, should be used if you really want to taste bourbon at its best.  I don't think it's a crime to add tap water, but if you do, simply know you're adding fluoride flavoring. 

And yes, no hard feelings at all.

And back to my earlier point, most bourbon has been diluted. Really only a handful of bourbons are available barrel proof. Though more are coming available due to the popularity of bookers, which is the only widely available barrel proof bourbon.


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## oldhippy (Dec 12, 2012)

I guess my Old Crow and 9 ice cubes, and not to forget tap water, is a no no.  But then I just saved enough for a great monopod, and a great tilt head.
Once a hippy.well I guess that says it.  Later Ed


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## DannyLewis (Dec 12, 2012)

I have half of a gallon of moonshine left but is in a milk jug and is not a very pretty picture but is *sorta?* mild from being made with mashed peaches.....But its cheap stuff I gave 50 for a gallon from my uncle....


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## fjrabon (Dec 12, 2012)

oldhippy said:
			
		

> I guess my Old Crow and 9 ice cubes, and not to forget tap water, is a no no.  But then I just saved enough for a great monopod, and a great tilt head.
> Once a hippy.well I guess that says it.  Later Ed



Ha, old crow with 9 ice cubes means you can drink more of it. Heck, booker noe's wife drank her bourbon with ginger ale... And her maiden name was Beam. 

I agree you should stick to water if you want all the complexity of great bourbon. But outside of that, drink it with whatever you'd like, so long as you're a happy drunk.  Here's my current, woodford double oaked neat. Strong butterscotch flavor.


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## JAC526 (Dec 12, 2012)

fjrabon said:


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Too bad atlanta is so damn far from cincy.  We could get drunk and argue in person.


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## oldhippy (Dec 12, 2012)

DannyLewis said:


> I have half of a gallon of moonshine left but is in a milk jug and is not a very pretty picture but is *sorta?* mild from being made with mashed peaches.....But its cheap stuff I gave 50 for a gallon from my uncle....


  20 bucks here. but then this is the Appalacian mountians  lol


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## deeky (Dec 12, 2012)

I have to say I like my Scotch, but bourbon is about the one alcohol I really don't like - it's the sour mash aftertaste that just turns me off.  I have typically drank it neat at room temperature (65-70).  All the talk of water seems to cut the alcohol flavor, but what about the aftertaste?


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