# Wanting to replace speedlights with 400w monolights



## mlothian (May 12, 2012)

I do a lot of outdoor portrait shoots and was thinking about upgrading to monolights.  I have found a few 400 watt monolights that I am interested in and was wanting to know what the comparable wattage is that comes out of a speedlight to get the same amount of flash output from a monolight..I have heard that 400w would not be enough for midday sunny shoots but I mainly do late evening shoots.  Any advice would be appreciated.


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## Kerbouchard (May 12, 2012)

Speedlights and Monolights don't really have have an effective measurable unit to compare them.  Watt's are a horrible means, and watt-seconds aren't that much better.

Basically, to battle mid-day sun, a speedlight can't do it, so it doesn't matter how they are measured.

For mono-lights, there are several things to consider.  Everybody rates their stuff differently, so it's less important to look at their 'ratings' and look at what the lights can actually produce.

For late evening shoots, you should be just fine with an AB800 and one of the Vagabond Mini packs from Alien Bee.  It's pretty affordable and will perform a lot better than speedlights.  If you want to have the option to shoot in mid-day, the AB1600 or White Lightening 1600's will give you that option.

Basically, it all depends on your budget and what you need it to do.


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## Derrel (May 12, 2012)

Okay...a real approximation: a typical high-priced speedlight has a Watt-second "equivalence" of about 60 Watt-seconds. Kind of. Sort of. Here's the deal: any flash + reflector combination has a Guide Number. Take the GN for a Vivtar 285 HV flash: approximately 110 in Feet, at ISO 100. SO, at 10 feet flash-to-subject distance, we take the GN, which is 110, and we divide that number BY THE NUMBER OF FEET from flash to subject, and we get 11. 110 divided by 10 equals 11. Or f/11. Okay....so, GN in Feet, at ISO 100--with the STandard ZOom Head position which covers a 50mm lens angle of view, approximtely.

BUT, the thing we see today is this: flash makers now specify speedlight units by Guide Number, in Feet for US- market flashes but they VERY OFTEN list the GN for the flash when it is zoomed in to a very narrow-angled beam spread setting, like say that for the 100mm lens focal length...that is a very narrow beam. Kind of a deceptive advertising practice, and a lot like EPA miles per gallon figures on new cars...a frickin' fantasy... lol

Monolight and studio flash units on the other hand, are often specified with their "small" reflectors, which are their 5 or 7-inch sizes with fairly wide beam spread angles, ranging from 65 to 110 degrees...now, those reflectors are not *the* most-efficient ones that deliver the absolute HIGHEST Guide Numbers...

A 150 Watt-second monolight that says the GN is 110 in Feet at ISO 100, but which covers a 65 degree swath of real estate with light is MUCH more-powerful than a typical speedlight,and is delivering light across a MUCH wider,larger area than a typical speedlight will do, unless the speedlight is set to the 35mm position, where that Guide Number of say 110 at Standard Zoom Head position, will plummet downward.

ANyway...I think of an SB 800, Vivitar 285, or Canon 580 X-II as being about 6o watt-seconds, give or take.


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## Derrel (May 12, 2012)

Just a for instance: a Speedotron 2401B power pack and 102 fan-cooled flash head with a standard Speedotron Black Line 11.5 inch 55 degree grid style reflector delivers an exposure that looks perfect on the Nikon D2x at 20 feet, at f/13 at 1/250 second at ISO 100 in bright summer sunlight conditions. THAT reflector is NOT as high-powered as say a 30-degree, highly-polished "sports" or "long-throw" reflector. THAT flash pack, with that flash head, with that flash reflector, with that camera's inherent ISO 100 sensitivity looks like "daylight" at the 400 Watt-second output level--from 20 feet away. According to actual, real-world tests I did some years back, in 2007. Shooting over a light-colored concrete patio.

The 2401B power pack can pump out six flash heads, all at "that" kind of 400 watt-second output, all day long. With Alien Bees, I believe their "800" will come close to the Speedotron's 400 Watt-second output with similar sized reflectors.


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## mlothian (May 12, 2012)

This is the one that I had in mind to start off with, as I am on a very low budget due to returning to school full time.  Can you tell me if this will do the trick for the evening photos for the time being or should I save a little and get the AB800 or 1600?
http://www.amazon.com/Cowboystudio-...Strobe/dp/B003XCDA9A/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top


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## Derrel (May 12, 2012)

On a budget? I would strongly consider the 150 watt-second Adorama Flashpoint 320M monolights, which are VERY affordable. Get two of them.


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## mlothian (May 12, 2012)

Derrel said:


> On a budget? I would strongly consider the 150 watt-second Adorama Flashpoint 320M monolights, which are VERY affordable. Get two of them.



This actually looks very reasonable, I will look in to getting one of these and giving it a shot..  I honestly have been doing portrait photography since february so a lot of the flash lingo is very new to me..any other advice or training material that anyone can recommend would be great..Thanks again for the feedback.


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## mlothian (May 12, 2012)

I've also been really impressed with this guys photography, this is a photo he did of a band I was in and was wondering if anyone might give a few recommendations as far as producing shots similar without copying his style.

Photo

*Changed to a link as the OP states it is not his picture.*


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## Derrel (May 12, 2012)

That warm, amber-colored light coming from behind them appears to be from a flash, or two flash units, carefully placed out of view, and fitted with a warm, orange-ish gel taped over the flash head. I suspect there are TWO flash units, one lighting the pilings, the second flash aimed right at the men, which is why they have such a strong shadow. They are then lighted by a flash, probably with a large umbrella, to the right of the camera. Perhaps TWO flashes lighting ther= front side of the band, and  each flash aimed at the ceiling; see those two almost-identical "hot spots" on the ceiling??? I think each of those is from a flash unit.

THis is why the low-cost Flashpioint 320M monolights make so,so much sense; you can get FOUR of them for the price of one Canon 580 EX-II or Nikon SB-910 AND have money left over for four Interfit silvered-interior, black-backed reflecting umbrellas, which are currently priced at like $12 each!


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## Village Idiot (May 14, 2012)

Derrel said:


> That warm, amber-colored light coming from behind them appears to be from a flash, or two flash units, carefully placed out of view, and fitted with a warm, orange-ish gel taped over the flash head. I suspect there are TWO flash units, one lighting the pilings, the second flash aimed right at the men, which is why they have such a strong shadow. They are then lighted by a flash, probably with a large umbrella, to the right of the camera. Perhaps TWO flashes lighting ther= front side of the band, and  each flash aimed at the ceiling; see those two almost-identical "hot spots" on the ceiling??? I think each of those is from a flash unit.
> 
> THis is why the low-cost Flashpioint 320M monolights make so,so much sense; you can get FOUR of them for the price of one Canon 580 EX-II or Nikon SB-910 AND have money left over for four Interfit silvered-interior, black-backed reflecting umbrellas, which are currently priced at like $12 each!



That shot looks like it was shot where power would be an issue. You can get cheaper hotshoe flashes without buying a top of the line Canon or Nikon hotshoe flash. In fact, unless you absolutely need to shoot TTL the expensive first part flashes are going to be mostly worthless (except for the wether sealing and maybe the range of adjustment compared to really cheap flashes).

The monolights would be an option here, but then you'd need a battery to power them. I know Adorama sells FP batteries, but I think I'd recommend Innovatronix or the VML over the Adorama batteries.


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## 2WheelPhoto (May 14, 2012)

Derrel said:


> On a budget? I would strongly consider the 150 watt-second Adorama Flashpoint 320M monolights, which are VERY affordable. Get two of them.




^^^^^^^that


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