# Ambient light, Strobes, freezing action? the hardest formula to achieve?!



## Balwazer (Nov 19, 2010)

Hi all,

It is my first time in your forum and hope I give knowledge as much as I take.

Well, I do advertising photography, but I am having problem in freezing the shots while there is an ambient light in location.

For example the last assignment I have it was in the airport I was shooting the model against large windows. So I needed the ambient light to make the photo natural. I also used two strobes to fill the shadows.


I got away from it doing the following:

I used shutter speed: 1/100sec, F5.6, ISO 400 for the most shots

The results ended slightly noisy and most photos had a shake on them. But for the non movement photos they were perfect except the noise which fixed in lightroom easy.

The problem is:

1- I couldnt go above 1/100sec because I will lose the ambient light

2- Couldnt raise the strobes power for the same reason

3- Couldnt raise the ISO because of the noise


So what would you do if you were me? To freeze the action while needing both the ambient light and the strobes light?!!


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## rumaweigh (Nov 19, 2010)

You are in a tight situation.  First I'd suggest  a faster lens and a faster shutter speed--1 stop should be enough.  Second, increase the ISO one stop to 800 then use noise reduction software (I use a program called Topaz denoise--a Photoshop plug in-- in exactly this situation).

Good luck.


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## Robin Usagani (Nov 19, 2010)

Why 5.6?


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## Village Idiot (Nov 19, 2010)

Schwettylens said:


> Why 5.6?


 
DOF issues, possibly?

A better camera is my suggestion if the OP can't raise the shutter speed or lower the aperture.

most, if not all, full frame cameras can easily shoot at 1600 ISO and produce a very usable image.


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## GeneralBenson (Nov 19, 2010)

I'm not trying to be an ass, but i sounds like your shooting on really crappy gear. My guess is that you were at f/5.6 because it was the minimum aperture of the lens you had. So there's your first problem. For shooting professionally, you should really have top quality glass with fast apertures. On top of that, high quality lenses have some form of shake reduction. With that, you could easily be shooting at at 200mm focal length down around 1/50th with no problems at all. lastly, if you're taking assignments, you really need a new body that can go much higher than ISO 400 and still have clean results. 

The situation you're describing is not hard at all, but you're insanely limited by your gear. You already know all the answers, it's just that none of them were available to you. Shoot at ISO 800, or stop down to f/4, or shoot with shake reduction. With professional equipment you could have 5 stop less ambient light then you're talking about and still have easily gotten the shot. Sorry, that I'm harping on this, but if you're taking assignments, charging money and calling yourself a pro (you didn't say you were, I'm just guessing. forgive me if I'm wrong. just go with it), then you really need to have professional gear. With my latest camera, the aps-c Pentax K-5, I wouldn't hesitate to shoot fashion/portraits at ISO 3200, and print them at 12x18. And there are plenty of other full-frame cameras that perform in this range or much better. 

In the meantime, without better gear yet (which I'm sure you want and would have if you could get it right now), other things you could have done:

-use a tripod and shoot at slower shutter speeds
-shoot at iso 800 anyways. There are very good noise reduction programs, but there aren't and camera shake reduction programs. Always take noise over unwanted camera shake/subject motion blur
-Use something near by as a support. You were in an airport, put your camera on a chair, or a table, lean again a wall for support
-learn to hold your camera steadier. I'm not being a smart ass, there's  alot more to holding a camera and getting good slow shuter speed shots  than one might think. From the way you stand, to the way you tighten  your core, to the way you hold the camera, to the way you breathe, to  the timing when you press the shutter. watch this video by Joe McNally.  




The bottom line is that in the field, working as a pro, it's 1 part technique, 1 part equipment and 1 part problem solving skills.

Best of luck!


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## Village Idiot (Nov 19, 2010)

IS will not freeze motion, just reduce camera shake from the photographer.


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## Garbz (Nov 19, 2010)

Tripod will fix the camera shake, but the movement? The only thing that will fix that keeping all the other variables the same is an increase in ISO and shutter speed. 

Strobes can only be used to freeze a subject if they are the only source of light.


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## Balwazer (Nov 20, 2010)

Rumaweigh: I hate noise that's why I didn't go to ISO 800, but I am waiting the 70-200mm 2.8L IS II I think its good for these situations.

Schwettylens: 5.6 because I didn't want very shallow dof .. I can go to maximum F4.0 which is not that big different

Village Idiot: Better camera than 5D mark II? ISO 1600 for an advertising shot even on my camera is not usable trust me.

GeneralBenson: You should ask me what is my gear before not trying to be an ass  . I use 5D mark II with the lens 24-105mm IS 4.0L most of the time with two profoto air D1000+battery pack for this shot



So I understand from you all that this is the solution:

1- Faster lens
2- Raise the ISO and deal with the noise
3- Try to use tripod if you can



What about better camera? is there a better camera than 5D mark II which can deal with this situation?

Do you all agree that noisy photos better than shaky ones?


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## Robin Usagani (Nov 20, 2010)

If you worry about the strobe looking unnatural, then you need gels to cover your flash to mimic the color of the sun. This way you can raise the power of the strobe. I assume you took this shot when it is not very bright outside? You take it infront of a window looking at the landing strips?  Maybe do the shoot when it is brighter outside.  You can really freeze the motion when you dont need that much time to get all the ambient light.

Personally I am not afraid jacking my camera (only 5d mk1) to really high ISO as long as I dont underexpose it.


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## mrpink (Nov 20, 2010)

watch this

YouTube - adoramaTV's Channel




p!nK


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## oldmacman (Nov 20, 2010)

mrpink said:


> watch this
> 
> YouTube - adoramaTV's Channel
> 
> ...



Great video. At first I thought you selected the wrong tutorial, but saw later on the information you wanted the OP to see.


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## Robin Usagani (Nov 20, 2010)

Great video indeed.  But I dont think it will benefit anything for the OP.  I believe he understands all that because he did say there was quite a bit of ambient light.


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## Garbz (Nov 20, 2010)

Balwazer said:


> What about better camera? is there a better camera than 5D mark II which can deal with this situation?
> 
> Do you all agree that noisy photos better than shaky ones?



Hands down. But what you're trying to do sounds like it would be better done in photoshop. Movement frozen with strobes against an ambient background, sounds like the perfect case for taking the ambient shot with tripod and lowest ISO, and then back in the studio creating your crazy frozen movement scene and inserting it back into the original shot. 

The result can be very natural if you're in full control of the lighting on the model. You just need a strobe or two to mimic the ambient light that would have fallen on your model, the rest of your setup to lightup the model, and volah.

If you're trying to find a better camera because the 5D MkII can't handle the situation I think you're misguided.


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## Derrel (Nov 20, 2010)

Balwazer said:
			
		

> So what would you do if you were me? To freeze the action while needing both the ambient light and the strobes light?!!



Well, one idea would be to procure a camera that can synchronize flash at a higher shutter speed, liike a Nikon D70 or D70s, which could synch at very fast speeds, like up to 1/8000 second if needed. Then, use a higher ISO, like 400, and shoopt at a shutter speed of around 1/500 second, and a moderately-large f/stop for a pretty good amount of effective flash exposure.

A camera with a hybrid CCD/mechanical shutter is the key....meaning Nikon D70 series, Nikon D1h series, Canon 1D (original 4.2 MP model), or a few of the older Sony d-slr models.

The Paul C. Buff Alien Bees lights can synchronize very well with the Nikon D70, as proven by Paul Buff's tests on his forum. I have also seen the same tests done using Sony d-slrs.

If you need to maintain daylight in the background, you'll need 400 to 640 ISO settings AND moderately wide apertures to burn in the daylight. Some people who shoot a LOT of really bright-light, fast action stuff, like Extreme Sports skateboarding, snowboarding, motocross, etc,etc are still relying on older technology cameras like Nikon D1h and D1x and Canon 1D for fast-handling and the ability to synchronize flash in BRIGHT daylight, and not get a smeared object, AND to be able to get fill-in by the flash burst.


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## gsgary (Nov 21, 2010)

This is what you need it will sinc at 1/1600


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## Balwazer (Nov 25, 2010)

Thank you all for your reply it was very useful


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