# Live view on SLR different from P&S



## hoboahoy (Aug 14, 2009)

I've heard of but never used a live view on an SLR.  Could you explain how the live view mode on SLR is different from P&S camera's?  I use the mode on my P&S camera all the time.  Why is it difficult or nonsuitable to use the live view on SLR camera for a fast paced action scene while most of cheap P&S cameras have a functional working live view mode?  Thank you.


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## PhotoXopher (Aug 14, 2009)

I don't know, slower focus maybe?

That said, I used to use a camera with nothing but 'live view' (point and shoot fuji)... loved it!

However once I got a DSLR I hate Live View. I'd much rather look through the viewfinder than the big screen.


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## Opher (Aug 14, 2009)

N0YZE said:


> I don't know, slower focus maybe?



I tried live view on my Canon XS and HATE it.  I read the manual 20 times and still cant get auto while in live view.  It is published that it is much slower but i would be happier if i could get it to work.

There is one thing i like about live view.  If you have time and want a exelent foucus than you can "zoom" in live view.  Dont use it much bet meh.

Hope this helped.


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## Garbz (Aug 14, 2009)

hoboahoy said:


> I've heard of but never used a live view on an SLR.  Could you explain how the live view mode on SLR is different from P&S camera's?



The answer is it's not, and that's the problem. DSLR users are used to seeing things happen through the viewfinder, not on an LCD screen. We are used to the ultra fast and dead accurate phase detection focusing systems. We're used to holding our cameras properly not at arms length. 

Live view on a DSLR from what I've seen is the same as liveview on a P&S. There's a couple of hundred ms delay in the video feed which adds to the delay of the shutter negating the benefits of the very short (<200ms) shutter release times. When the mirror is flipped up in a DSLR, phase detection autofocus is disabled and the camera reverts to the same contrast detection system used in P&S cameras significantly reducing the quality of AF (need more light and less accurate). Oh and DSLRs are heavy. Holding them at arms length is a PITA.

It has its uses and if I had Liveview I'd probably use it in some instances but it definitely is a step backwards not just in mentality but also in performance.


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## Anesthetize (Aug 15, 2009)

I sometimes use Live View in my 450D. I just never figured out how to use the autofocus on it but I get aroundthat problem by focusing first and then flipping to LiveView and check the results before shooting. Taking the actual picture has a delay that makes it all but unusable for fast paced action (IMHO), but it's not totally useless. Both these pictures were taken with live view. In the first one I used a large apperture and close range, meaning I had to focus in the right place and the second one was taken with f/5.6 and I chose liveview to avoid people's heads in the audience.


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## PhilGarber (Aug 15, 2009)

N0YZE said:


> I don't know, slower focus maybe?
> 
> That said, I used to use a camera with nothing but 'live view' (point and shoot fuji)... loved it!
> 
> However once I got a DSLR I hate Live View. I'd much rather look through the viewfinder than the big screen.




I agree. It's too bad that live view seems to be the current trend. When I upgrade my body I hope I can turn it off and just use the viewfinder.


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## DRB022 (Aug 15, 2009)

Yeah I really don't like live view. That's what separates us real photographers from what everyone else does. But to answer your question: It's really no different than a P&S. Just remember to use an eyepiece that will cover the view finder so that no unwanted light can reach the image sensor.


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## musicaleCA (Aug 15, 2009)

For all the reasons Garbz stated, I really dislike Live View. And that said, it does have its uses. However, using phase detection AF *is* possible. It's a custom function that needs to be enabled (usually off by default) manually. On the 450D, it's C.FnIII (8), Auto Focus/Drive AF during Live View shooting. Setting it to 1: Quick mode, when you depress the focus button, the camera will lock down the mirror and focus using the AF sensor, and flip it back up when it's done. (2: Live mode uses contrast detection, as it keeps the screen on, and sucks battery power like nothing else.) If you want to change AF points, you have to get out of Live View on the 450D, as the AF point selection button turns into a zoom instead in Live View, but thankfully, the selected AF point is shown in Live View by a small white box, so it's not like you're focusing blind.


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## Garbz (Aug 15, 2009)

Yeah but that also introduces a delay, and I would think AF-C does not work in live view with face detection since you can't see what you're looking at. Regardless, if the mirror needs to be flipped up then your ability to use phase detection is severely diminished.


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## PhilGarber (Aug 15, 2009)

DRB022 said:


> Yeah I really don't like live view. That's what separates us real photographers from what everyone else does.



I agree .


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## PhilGarber (Aug 15, 2009)

PPALV-Professional Photographers Against Live View-.


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## JFew (Aug 16, 2009)

There was a time when DSLRs were for professionals and people that understood the basic concepts of photography only. Same for SLR cameras like my Minolta X-370 - a camera that has no auto features, and a light meter that barely works. There was a time when it actually took some basic understanding of things like Aperture and Shutter Speed to use a camera. Why buy an expensive DSLR just so you can put it in Auto Mode and never use any of the manual functions? I just plain don't get it. Heh, and don't get me started on DSLRs that have "Movie Mode" now!


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## table1349 (Aug 16, 2009)

When you look through a viewfinder in a P&S, assuming that it has one, you are not seeing what the sensor sees or will see since the viewfinder is a through body thing aimed at where the lens points.  Live view on a P&S is done from the sensor acting in essence as a small tv camera sending the image to the LCD.  When you press the shutter that camera goes from TV mode to camera mode causing a delay in shooting. P&S camera's don't have shutters so the sensor acts like the shutter turning on and off to record the photo which takes time and causes the delay that is common in P&S cameras.  Live view is also slow and jerky in every P&S I have ever seen.  

In a DSLR, at least the Canon's since that is what I shoot, when you look thorough the viewfinder you see exactly what the sensor will see from the mirror in front of the shutter. The sensor is encased, just like film in a light proof box with the shutter being the only opening. When you press the shutter release the sensor is already activated recording pitch black.  The mirror swings up the shutter opens and the light hits the sensor instantly recording the image until the shutter closes.  Upon closing the processor then records the image from the shutter in micro seconds onto your media card.  

When you put a DSLR into live view, the mirror swings up, the shutter opens and you just turned it into an overgrown P&S with the same foibles and problems.  AF doesn't work because the mirror, and the sub mirror used for the AF focusing system, are now out of the way and sensor focuing systems are not nearly as quick or accurate as the submirror focusing system.  That is why live view is basicly only useful in things like Macro when it is hard to get your face to the viewfinder.


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## PhilGarber (Aug 16, 2009)

JFew said:


> Heh, and don't get me started on DSLRs that have "Movie Mode" now!



Yeah! I hate that. If you make any piece of technology do-it-all, it won't do anything well. I'd reckon the Videographer (that a word?) community is probably not to happy with the "video mode" on still cameras either.


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## Dwig (Aug 16, 2009)

hoboahoy said:


> ...Why is it difficult or nonsuitable to use the live view on SLR camera for a fast paced action scene while most of cheap P&S cameras have a functional working live view mode?...



Your question isn't valid becaused its based on a false premise.

With SLRs, the focusing speed in Live View is slower *than that of an SLR not using Live View*. It is often as slow as a relatively fast P&S camera. 

Live View on a DSLR is just as functional as it is on a P&S. It only seems slow to, and only gets bad press by, those who use the responsiveness and speed of an SLR as a reference for comparision. Your confusion arises from the fact that "reviewers" rarely bother to type the extra phrase that I put in bold italics, above.


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## JFew (Aug 16, 2009)

PhilGarber said:


> JFew said:
> 
> 
> > Heh, and don't get me started on DSLRs that have "Movie Mode" now!
> ...



Yep, videographers are the same thing as photographers, just with movies instead of still images.

It's just an insult, plain and simple. That's like putting a still camera on a high-end HD video camera...it's just stupid! What they don't realize is...when you build something into a camera that it's not really designed for...you create problems. You know what else you create? You create a place for people to ***** and moan about how movie mode is hard to use and combersome on THEIR 3 THOUSAND DOLLAR PROFESSIONAL DSLR. Ugh...it's so bloody stupid. If you write a review for a professional DSLR and it has movie mode...and you're supposed to be some kind of reknowned reviewer of such things...why the hell would you list "shotty movie mode" as one of the cons of the camera? HELLO...it's a DSLR!


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## KmH (Aug 16, 2009)

Minds are like parachutes, they work best when they're open.

I'm studying videography techniques and thinking about how to incorporate video with my still photography.


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## Anesthetize (Aug 16, 2009)

^^This.

Just because it's there it doesn't mean you have to use it. Heck, Liveview isn't even the default setting nor does it's existence make your pictures worse. The same goes for video. I've seen great short films shot with a 5D MkII and I've seen terrible ones. But then again, I've seen great filme shot in hollywood and I've seen terrible ones. 

I would very much like to try one out and learn something a whole new art.


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## skieur (Aug 16, 2009)

I think first of all, it needs to be recognized that Live View is different on every DSLR camera.  Contrary to Canon, on Sony the autofocus is just as fast on Live View as it is with using the viewfinder and that means faster than some Canon models.

Live view with a tilt screen is also extremely useful.  It is not necessary to have your arms stretched out at all.  The camera can be handled like any top view, large format camera.  This is not to say that anyone with a DSLR would only use Live view but rather that Live View offers a second option for getting the shot.  When you put your eye to the viewfinder, people change and pose etc.  That is when a tilt screen and live view produces a more natural shot.  In some light situations, live view provides a better indication of what is in the frame than the viewfinder.  Needless to say for low angle shots, it is much better to use a tilted viewfinder and live view than kneeling in the mud with good clothes on.  Shooting over the head of crowds is also very effective with live view and a tilted lens.

Bottom line is that if you know how to put it to good use, LIVE VIEW is an excellent feature, particularly on the Sony with a G lens or Zeiss lens.

skieur


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## DRB022 (Aug 16, 2009)

PhilGarber said:


> JFew said:
> 
> 
> > Heh, and don't get me started on DSLRs that have "Movie Mode" now!
> ...



Yeah even if my camera had movie mode, I couldn't bring myself to use it. I would feel like an idiot holding a DSLR in live view mode following around a subject and never hitting the shutter release!


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## DRB022 (Aug 16, 2009)

Canon actually puts a still camera on many of their professional camcorders


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## Garbz (Aug 17, 2009)

skieur said:


> I think first of all, it needs to be recognized that Live View is different on every DSLR camera.  Contrary to Canon, on Sony the autofocus is just as fast on Live View as it is with using the viewfinder and that means faster than some Canon models.



Actually Sony's live view uses a phase detect mechanism. This comes with it's own downsides. The viewfinder is a pentamirror on their entire range rather than a pentaprism used by all but the cheap cameras of other manufacturers. Their live view implementation is also by far the most expensive compared to the body it's in. It necessitates a second AF unit and additional technology in the prism housing to move the pentamirror around. The AF units in modern DSLRs are the second most advanced system next to the sensor itself. So something had to give when they put two into the one camera. The a900 has a hole 9 AF units, just like my 4 year old Nikon D200.

I'm not against the bonuses of having live view until it actually cuts into the budget or the features of what I'm paying for in the camera. Even if it is a fast focusing system 9 AF points on the top of the line camera is poor by todays standards.


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## UUilliam (Aug 17, 2009)

1. DSLR Live view is rubbish quality, pretty pixelated.
2. The autofocus doesn't work unless you go into the menus and turn the "Live focus mode" on which then works slowly by pressing the AE Lock button thus loosing the ability to AE lock
3. It does come in handy for akward angle shots but I'd leave it.
The popout screens, although looking very very amatureish save you £100 - £200 you would spend for a Right angle Viewfinder to shoot those akward angles.


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## Dao (Aug 17, 2009)

I use the viewfinder 99% with my DSLR, but sometimes, liveview comes in handy.

For example, I wanted to compose this photo with a blur background and the water reflected the color of the grass.  So I needed to position the camera couple inches from the grass field I was standing on.

With the help of liveview, I was able to focus, compose and snap it.


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## F1addict (Aug 17, 2009)

LIke most people I use my viewfinder atleast 90% of the time. But there are times when the liveview and tilting screen on my Sony A300 are very usefull and its easy to use.

You just flip the switch on the top of the camera from OVF to Liveview. And everything works as it should. It focus just as fast as when using the viewfinder. There's no changing of settings to get everything to work.
The added feature of liveview and a tilting screen is very helpful for those awkward low angle shots, or the over the head shots. While at Giants training camp a few days ago I wouldn't have gotten half the shots I did without the aid of liveview and the tilting screen.
Now I do agree that without the tilting lcd screen liveview is really pretty useless.


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## musicaleCA (Aug 17, 2009)

UUilliam said:


> 2. The autofocus doesn't work unless you go into the menus and turn the "Live focus mode" on which then works slowly by pressing the AE Lock button thus loosing the ability to AE lock



NooooOOOOooo...Just separate your AE and AF lock buttons.


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## skieur (Aug 21, 2009)

UUilliam said:


> 1. DSLR Live view is rubbish quality, pretty pixelated.
> 2. The autofocus doesn't work unless you go into the menus and turn the "Live focus mode" on which then works slowly by pressing the AE Lock button thus loosing the ability to AE lock
> 3. It does come in handy for akward angle shots but I'd leave it.
> The popout screens, although looking very very amatureish save you £100 - £200 you would spend for a Right angle Viewfinder to shoot those akward angles.



You are talking about your particular camera.  That is NOT the case with mine.

skieur


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