# ranking the lighting systems



## chuasam (Jul 14, 2017)

How would you all rank the different brands of lights?

Sure in the highest level there's Broncolor followed by Profoto 
and in the still pretty good there's Elinchrom and Hensel.
In bargainville there's AlienBees.
How would you place newer brands like Godox?


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## tirediron (Jul 14, 2017)

I don't think it's quite that simple to be honest...  What criteria are you basing the ranking on? I've not had the chance to use Profoto, or newer Broncolor stuff, but by all accounts it is very good, however, it's also very pricey, and I think for most exceeds the law of diminishing returns in terms of value.  I would actually rank Elincrhom above both Profoto and Broncolor in practical terms because of it's far greater value for dollar spent.  Godox is actually surprisingly good; it's still consumer-grade MiC gear, but a year or two ago, I purchased an AD360II when I needed some easy, portable light for an outdoor project, and have been very pleased with it.  It's reasonably priced, decently made, and does the job.

Overall, I will always rank Speedotron as #1.  It's cheap like borscht on the used market, absolutely top-notch build quality, simple and robust, gives me solid, consistent results every time and any time you have a company where you can pick up the 'phone and talk to a REAL PERSON, who answers the 'phone without any "press 1" or "In a few words, tell us what you'd like..." crap...


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## chuasam (Jul 14, 2017)

I used Speedotron when I was in first college. Hated it...hated the weird ratios and being unable to plug and unplug on the fly. Old timers wax lyrical about the cost benefits of the brown system and the toughness of the black system.

I was back in College last year and they upgraded to the Profoto ProD4...holy jeeze what a difference. I was in love.

My personal system is a Profoto Compact. I also have Elinchrom DX series I got as a gift. 
I used the Broncolor when I worked at LifeTouch many eons ago. They're robust as hell but not pretty. I also owned AlienBees (loved the price and customer service, hated the build quality).

Pondering ditching it all and switching to Godox.


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## benhasajeep (Jul 14, 2017)

I have never used any of the expensive equipment.  I currently have couple Flashpoint 1220m's and batteries.  I also have 4 chinese knock off 150ws strobes as well (only used inside).  Also, I still use speedlights so have over a dozen Nikon speedlights as well.  For the most part I go with the speedlights first, unless I need higher power and quicker recycle times.


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## Derrel (Jul 14, 2017)

chuasam said:


> How would you all rank the different brands of lights?
> 
> Sure in the highest level there's Broncolor followed by Profoto
> and in the still pretty good there's Elinchrom and Hensel.
> ...



You title mentions "systems"...Profoto, Speedotron, Elinchrom, Paul C. Buff, Broncolor, all have an entire system behind them, of varying degrees of scope and price. There's a lot in the way of light-shaping tools that I consider part of a flash system, like grids, metal reflectors, variable beam-spread reflectors, mylar diffusers, metal screening material diffusers, background light reflectors (clam-shell or half-shrouds, whatver you wanna' call 'em), barn doors both 2- and 4-door, Fresnel spots, etc.. A lot of the ancillary stuff is where Speedotron shines: there's a LOT that can be done with metal honeycomb grids, and mylar and metal diffusers and barn doors added to lights.

Flash is complex; these days there is the new-generation High-Speed flash-synch options. I wish @ronlane would weigth in here. I've looked at some of the new, MIC gear. For people who need one or two flash units, and high-speed flash synch for outdoors shooting, etc.. then Godox and some of the other Made in China stuff looks VERY good to me, for a low price. If a person wants to be able to shoot flash at 1/2000 to 1/4000 outdoors at f/1.4 or f/2 or f/2.8, etc.. then the newer, MIC, *new-era-feature-set* stuff looks good.

Older studio flash stuff is mostly that: studio-centric, indoor-centric. Godox has some VERY appealing stuff. I've shot mostly old school studio flash from DynaLight,Speedotron,Photogenic,Norman, Sunpak; in monolights Alien Bees, White Lighting Ultras (Buff line), JTL, but all only a small bit; in speedlights, Vivitar, Nikon, Sunpak,Crown, Canon. I dunno...there's a LOT of stuff out there!

I see new-era-feature-set AKA *high-speed flash synchronization-capable *daylight outdoor flash as being entirely different from old-style "studio" flash.

If I were buying ALL-new today, I might look into a high-speed flash syunch-capable monolight setup.


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## tecboy (Jul 14, 2017)

I rank flashpoint as #1.


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## smoke665 (Jul 14, 2017)

Can't speak on the higher end, but I love my Bees. Great customer service. I like talking to people who actually use the product they sell.


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## Derrel (Jul 14, 2017)

For those wondering about GODOX:  GODOX – 2.4GHz Flash System Overview | FLASH HAVOC

And here is one I've watched several videos of....the GODOX-made variant that has been retail-branded as the *XPLOR 600*, whioch looks very good compared to outrageously priced Profoto units.

My issue is mainly cost per Watt-second, and the size of the unit--being 600 Watt-seconds, which is more than I would normally want to use through onek, single flash head, so I'd be paying a lot of money for flash power I would lilely not use. For me, 200 W-s per head is normally about all I want. yet still: TTL, high-speed flash synch, remote triggering,etc.. AND a big, powerful battery pack...very,very appealing!

Flashpoint XPLOR 600

and as Adorama's page says, "

One Remote to Rule Them All.
One Radio Remote System to Unify the Flash.
One Remote to Streak, Zoom and XPLOR.
R2 Flash Imaging Freedom
Radio Active. TTL Auto. HSS Master.."


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## benhasajeep (Jul 14, 2017)

Hahaha, I read the Godox link you posted.  It said Canon, Sony and Nikon users could use the strobes at the same time.

Reminded me of the first time I did a college basketball game for the school paper.  I knew there were strobes in the rafters.  And I knew they were tripped optically.  So, I put my speedlight on my camera and pointed it up.  And I was using the lights mounted in the arena.  Well right around the end of the 2nd quarter.  This photographer with school credentials came up to me and said stop using my strobes.  hahahahaha.  Of course my reply was oh, I thought they were school property since they were permanently mounted.  I had school credentials as well.  But he was actually the schools official photographer.  I just worked for the paper (was a paid position though).

I used them on several occasions after that time.  But never if he was there also shooting an event.


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## ronlane (Jul 15, 2017)

@Derrel - thanks for calling me out on this. lol.

For me, why is is necessary to rank lighting equipment. There is some many choices out there that you can fine a system out there that works for you and will help you produce the images that you want. 

As Derrel mentioned, high speed sync is something that I have been testing and working with. I choose this because, for me, it increases the time that I can shoot. For this, I use the Adorama brand Streaklight 360, which is the same unit that @tirediron has. I can also shoot HSS with my Adorama brand Flashpoint Budget Series studio strobes, which will shoot HSS because of the flash duration that they have.

I do have first hand experience with the Interfit S1, which is basically the same as the Profoto B1 with the big difference that you can keep about $1300 in your pocket by getting the S1.

My thoughts about ranking lighting would be 2 questions to answer.

1) What do you need the lighting to do?
2) What is your budget?

Lighting has been a big learning adventure for me and it seems that just when I get what works for me, something else comes out that I wished I would have waited for. This is so true with the strobes, I would love to have one of the Interfit S1's because it has the battery on the unit, so it is really portable.

Since Derrel mentioned HSS, I thought I would include a couple of images shot with HSS. I used 2 studio strobes and the streaklight 360, all bare bulbed to get this shot. I wanted to 3 things out of these images. 1) to get a beautiful blue sky, 2) freeze the motion and 3) get the subject properly exposed. You can see on the fence, how harsh the lighting was at about 5 pm in July.


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## smoke665 (Jul 15, 2017)

ronlane said:


> I thought I would include a couple of images shot with HSS. I used 2 studio strobes and the streaklight 360, all bare bulbed to get this shot. I wanted to 3 things out of these images. 1) to get a beautiful blue sky, 2) freeze the motion and 3) get the subject properly exposed. You can see on the fence, how harsh the lighting was at about 5 pm in July.



Ron, the little boy has a strange look, almost like an HD image in a normal frame. Was this caused by the use of bare bulb??


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## ronlane (Jul 15, 2017)

smoke665 said:


> ronlane said:
> 
> 
> > I thought I would include a couple of images shot with HSS. I used 2 studio strobes and the streaklight 360, all bare bulbed to get this shot. I wanted to 3 things out of these images. 1) to get a beautiful blue sky, 2) freeze the motion and 3) get the subject properly exposed. You can see on the fence, how harsh the lighting was at about 5 pm in July.
> ...



No, I don't think so. I am guessing that you are referring to the first image. I pulled it to PS and have a layer that is most likely where I used MacPhun Intensify which I use to give it more of a clarity layer.


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## gossamer (Jul 21, 2017)

I just bought two Flashpoint XPLOR 600's from Adorama. I have a D500 and a 24-70mm f2.8 and use it for portraits and now product photography, both mostly at the amateur level, just for fun, but also have some paying gigs.

As I was browsing the site looking for lights, I noticed the price was $629, where everyone else was charging $749, including amazon and B&H. A few minutes later, and Adorama's price was also $749!! I got on a live chat with a customer service rep, and they confirmed the price just increased! I convinced them to honor that price for both, and I then knew it was a good deal, even though it's *way* more than I'll ever need 

I wanted a light that would be portable for both indoor and outdoor photgraphy. When I saw it supported HSS, wireless and came with a free wireless transmitter that supports HSS, supports 700 flashes on a single charge, I was really stoked.

I also bought two Manfrotto 1004BAC light stands and two Parapop 38" octoboxes. Now just have to figure out how to use it all!


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## gossamer (Jul 21, 2017)

Oh, I also wanted to ask a question. Many of these monolights come with gloves to install the bulbs, but mine didn't. Can I just use a soft cloth? Do you otherwise have any recommendations?


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## Derrel (Jul 21, 2017)

gossamer said:


> Oh, I also wanted to ask a question. Many of these monolights come with gloves to install the bulbs, but mine didn't. Can I just use a soft cloth? Do you otherwise have any recommendations?



YES, a clean cloth or clean paper towel or a clean,new napkin will work. One does not want ANY finger oils on quartz-halogen type modeling lamp bulbs! The oil can cause early failure of the bulb, so make SURE the bulb is clean, and free from any finger oils before using it. I've actually cleaned the lamps with alcohol and a cloth a few times before, with no ill effects.

The flashtube usually has a Pyrex outer shield/protector around it, and is less-sensitive to finger or cooking oils, in my experience (I've left flash units set up in my apartment for months on end, and cooking oil particulate can be airborne in many cases: love me some deep-fried foods!)

If your flash uses a lower-temp modeling light than a quartz-halogen type, I would not worry much about oil on the lamp's outer surface, but still, there is no harm in installing a modeling lamp bulb with a clean cloth or paper napkin.

*Congrats on the XPLOR 600 light units*: those look VERY nice to me. I have watched several videos on them...it's a NICE and very modern monolight option, and the HSS and transmitter and portable battery power--all those things are 21-st century type flash features, something the old-line brands are for the most part, way behind in.


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## gossamer (Jul 21, 2017)

Derrel said:


> gossamer said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, I also wanted to ask a question. Many of these monolights come with gloves to install the bulbs, but mine didn't. Can I just use a soft cloth? Do you otherwise have any recommendations?
> ...


Yes, I meant to mention that as the reason for using gloves, thanks.

*



			Congrats on the XPLOR 600 light units
		
Click to expand...

*


> : those look VERY nice to me. I have watched several videos on them...it's a NICE and very modern monolight option, and the HSS and transmitter and portable battery power--all those things are 21-st century type flash features, something the old-line brands are for the most part, way behind in.


Thanks so much, and thanks for your help in getting to this point! I'm super excited to be able to get so involved with this - it's so far beyond anything I ever expected when I bought my D300 like 10 years ago and started with photography, lol.


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## Derrel (Jul 21, 2017)

gossamer said:
			
		

> Thanks so much, and thanks for your help in getting to this point! I'm super excited to be able to get so involved with this - it's so far beyond anything I ever expected when I bought my D300 like 10 years ago and started with photography, lol.



yeah--the XPLOR 600 is one hell of a modern-era technological marvel! I bought my first studio flash gear in '86, a Speedotron D1602 Brown Line power pack, and three M11 flash heads, softbox, umbrellas, 11.5-inch metal reflectors, and a 16-inch reflector, and a barn door set for the 11.5-inch; very,very OLD-fashioned by comparison to the XPLOR 600 with TTL and remote raido-triggering and battery-powered status,etc..

I will tell you two accessories to get: a honeycomb grid set, one with three grids, like a 10-degree, 20-degree, and a 30- or 35-degree grid and a 2-door or 4-door barn doors set.

Adorama sells a generic, wire-snap *grid/gel holder/barn doors accessory* for a modest amount. I have one...it's "okay", and vastly,vastly better than nothing! It works on 5.75 to 8-inch reflecvtor sizes, and would work on the XPLOR 7-inch metal reflectors, for certain.

I see the Xplor 600 here at Adorama for $549 US dollars--BUT it's the NON-TTL model and it has no transmitter at that price...Flashpoint XPLOR 600

I love,love,love the *Speedotron 7-inch Mylar* clip-on diffusers, 4 or 5 of them too! These are similar to the Flashpoint 7-inch clear model ( SKU: FPLFXP004).

A studio flash head, with a metal 7-inch or 11.5-inch reflector, fitted with a 10- to 35-degree beam resticting honeycomb grid PLUS a mylar diffuser AND a barn door set is a very valuable lighting tool! They key is using the honeycomb grid PLUS the mylar diffuser!!!!! Or two diffusers!

Mixing softbox light or umbrella light is much easier if your hair light, or accent light, is being restricted by a honeycomb grid; adding one or two diffuserrs to that small, 7-inc to 11.5-inch source, makes the small-source light look MORE-equal to the light from a bigger umbrella or softbox; the barn doors and the grid abllow you to narrow the beam, to restrict the beam and help prevent lens flaring when the hair  light is aimed back, toward the camera.

Honeycomb grid + mylar diffuser + barn door = professional light-shaping method seldom talked about on today's internet or YouTube. Softboxes and umbrellas throw big swaths of light; the grid/diffuser/bardoors setup give some variety, some accent, to the lighting.


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