# I already screwed up...



## cdub0451 (May 5, 2008)

So my girlfriends parents had a yard sale this past weekend and all the stuff they didn't sell, they were going to give to Goodwill. Well they didn't sell her fathers Sigma SA-1 and I asked them could I have it and they said sure. Well I was playing around with it without any film in it (pressing the shutter release and doing the film advance lever thingy) and it got to "S" on the film counter and the film advance lever is loose, not ratchiting like before. I replaced the battery in it this morning to see if that would help but it hasn't. Somebody helllp!!!!


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## Crosby (May 5, 2008)

I don't know, but here is an idea to kick around...

If there were film in it, wouldn't you just have to wind it back to the other spool? If so, wouldn't that just unwind the counter? May be you could see how to unwind it without film in it, maybe turn the spool?


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## cdub0451 (May 5, 2008)

Crosby said:


> I don't know, but here is an idea to kick around...
> 
> If there were film in it, wouldn't you just have to wind it back to the other spool? If so, wouldn't that just unwind the counter? May be you could see how to unwind it without film in it, maybe turn the spool?


 
I already tried that. I think the problem lies with the film advance lever. It doesn't have any resistance or ratchiting to it at all.


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## Jim H (May 5, 2008)

Gads it's been to long since I played with my film camera - so this advice may be faulty. I know there "should" be a small button on the bottom of the camera - but don't remember if that allows for the rewind of the film or resets the film advance.


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## cdub0451 (May 5, 2008)

Jim H said:


> Gads it's been to long since I played with my film camera - so this advice may be faulty. I know there "should" be a small button on the bottom of the camera - but don't remember if that allows for the rewind of the film or resets the film advance.


 
Dang, tried it after your suggestion and no workee workee. I think I'm gonna take it to the local photo pro and pick his/her brain about it for a while unless anybody else has a suggestion.


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## djrichie28 (May 5, 2008)

My old range finder camera reset the film counter as soon as the back was opened.


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## JIP (May 5, 2008)

Exactly I was going to suggest the same thing open the back an close it that should reset things then stop playing around with it and put ome fil in the damn thing.


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## usayit (May 5, 2008)

Most of my manual advance cameras will ratchet and set the shutter regardless of the film counter.  Remove the lens and look at the mirror.  Is it in the up or down position?  

btw.. it is a K-mount camera.  Lenses are easy to find.


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## RebelTasha (May 5, 2008)

Have you tried putting a film in it, it may just push or pop something back in...


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## Garbz (May 6, 2008)

If there's no film in it and the counter has hit the end, then the film advance lever normally does something to prevent further advancement. Like disconnects or locks.

Do a pretend rewind or if you can't do that, just open the back. One of them should reset the counter. On my Nikon FE it's opening the back.


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## Battou (May 6, 2008)

Almost all cameras with a frame counter of that type reset automadically when you open it.

BTW, back then, when film SLRs where new and still in their production prime. Camera manufacturers strongly advised doing just what you where doing, playing with the shutter release, winding lever and what not with out film to get a feel for the camera. Dry firing the camera is not likely going to brake the camera, however it's age and maintaince of it's previous owners will play factor. Dry firing it like that is still a good practice though, If it was going to exceed it's life span that quickley it's best to happen before you load it.


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## usayit (May 6, 2008)

Garbz said:


> If there's no film in it and the counter has hit the end, then the film advance lever normally does something to prevent further advancement. Like disconnects or locks.



Ok.. let me be more specific...  Without film, None of the Pentax manuals (S1a, H1, H3, K, H1a, Spotmatics, LX, ME, MX, ME-super, ME-F, Spotmatic ES, K1000), none of my Canon's do it(A-1, F-1, AE-1, Pellix, Canonets ALL of them), my Minolta XG, none of my Leica rangefinders do that, and none of the other 35mm cameras in my collection do it.  The counter just hits the highest number and sits there.  MOST cameras do not have the advance lever tied to the counter.  The camera will continue to advance and trip without any lock.  The Sigma is a camera based on the K1000 internals (IIRC / like many cameras of that time) which equates to the same mechanisms as the K1000 which does not lock at the end of the counter.  The film counters will reset once you open the door (on most cameras) but this is still independent of the film advanced lever.  Perhaps the Nikons work differently.

[EDIT] The Sigma SA-1 is a rebadged Ricoh XR-7 with Kmount not the often copied K1000 [EDIT]

What you are describing is behavior when film is LOADED.  The film is pulled into the take up spool.  Once the last frame has been reached, that end of the negative is taped to the main spool which means it won't allow you to advance.  If you advance the leaver hard enough, you can tear the negative (don't do that).  That would translate into a "locked" advanced leaver.  Without any film in the camera, the advance lever will happily spin the takeup spool and reset the shutter forever.

Two things that come to mind:

If the mirror is in the up position, the shutter mechanism is jammed.  Need repair.
If the mirror is in the down position, the shutter mechanism might be ok but the ratcheting mechanism in the advance is broken.  This can occur of you are advancing/tripping too quickly and try to advance prior to the shutter  mechanism resetting.  Battou is right.  Dry firing normally won't do damage. (I do it occasionally just to hear the quality of a nice shutter.. lol)


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## cdub0451 (May 6, 2008)

usayit said:


> .
> 
> [EDIT] The Sigma SA-1 is a rebadged Ricoh XR-7 with Kmount not the often copied K1000 [EDIT]
> 
> ...


 
The mirror is down, but the film advance lever is loose. It stays in place until you go to advance the film, then it just moves freely. No ratchiting.
Thanks for all the help everybody.


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## prodigy2k7 (May 7, 2008)

on my dads film camera, it is "loose" when its already cocked and set. The last time you used the lever, did you take a picture? or did it not let you?


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## cdub0451 (May 7, 2008)

prodigy2k7 said:


> on my dads film camera, it is "loose" when its already cocked and set. The last time you used the lever, did you take a picture? or did it not let you?


 
It wouldn't let me. The shutter trigger acts as if it has already been triggered.


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## createnetwork (May 7, 2008)

I have an old Pentax and it has did something similar when I had film in it and then tried to do the rewind without first pressing the button on the bottom.  Is the shutter button sitting down and not letting you have any pressure when you press it down again?  If so you will need to take it to get repaired, but shouldn't be too expensive. Good luck!


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## Early (May 7, 2008)

cdub0451 said:


> It wouldn't let me. The shutter trigger acts as if it has already been triggered.


You probably stripped a gear, snapped off a holding screw, or something similar.  Not worth fretting  over,  I think.  Just replace the body.   More than likely, it would be cheaper than having it repaired.


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## cdub0451 (May 7, 2008)

Dang. The only reason I have it is because it was free. I have a Canon 30D I normally use and I was going to play around with the 35mm for fun.


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## Senor Hound (May 8, 2008)

Don't let this discourage you!  I'm sure that you didn't do all the damage yourself.  When stuff like this breaks, its from years of pulling back the film advance lever, not from you doing it 40 or 50 times in a row.

I suggest you find another old-school camera.  Maybe it will help you find your roots, that is, if they're needing to be found.


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