# Big Bold and Beautiful Bride



## bennielou (Oct 4, 2011)

We all photograph the real woman.  The average size of the American Woman is size 14, but not a lot of photographers showcase this real sized bride.  I have no idea why!  While most women WANT to be that size zero we see in the magazines, most of us are also keenly aware of the reality of our body type.  Real life sized brides, or those that are in the plus sized category appreciate a photographer that can showcase them in a way that makes them feel as gorgeous as they are.  There is a definate market out there for the photographers who court this real American woman.

Due to the way we photograph and process, we basically get three types of clients on a continual basis:  The couple that spends a lot of money on looking good, other photographers, and the couple that are aware that we can do retouching and body morphing.

The beautiful lady below came to us because she's not always happy about her body, and while she didn't want to change herself, she wanted to be as beautiful as she honestly is, for the memories of her wedding day.

She didn't want anything crazy. She just wanted a few tucks and tweaks, a bright smile, and to be photographed in a way that highlighted the things that are gorgeous about her.

We photograph several ladies that request the same thing each year.  Many brides, no matter how tiny, always seem to have something about themselves they want to tweak.  They don't like their arms, or they don't think their smile is bright enough, or whatever.

In the photos below, we did some minor slimming of the face, lifting of the chin, elongating of the neck, dropping of the shoulders, slimming of the arms, and we put a nip and tuck in at the waist.  

Again, nothing super dramatic, but something she truly valued in her wedding photography.

If anyone is interested, I would be happy to do a short tutorial on how to gently liquify a larger bride without making it completely obvious that the work has been done.

1.






2.





3.





4.





5.





6.





7.


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## 12sndsgood (Oct 4, 2011)

i really like the first two in the set.


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## tirediron (Oct 4, 2011)

Very nicely executed Bennie- #3 = $$


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## Jethro (Oct 4, 2011)

Photos are very nicely done (5. and 7. are my fav) but her smile scares me..:/


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## MissCream (Oct 4, 2011)

Good job


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## Aerr (Oct 5, 2011)

Cool, do you have befores?


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## bennielou (Oct 5, 2011)

Jethro said:


> Photos are very nicely done (5. and 7. are my fav) but her smile scares me..:/



Why does her smile scare you, Jethro.  I think she has a beautiful smile!


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## bennielou (Oct 5, 2011)

Hi Aerr,
I went back and grabbed the RAW files.  I didn't make any changes to the files at all, so these are exactly as shot, before white balance and exposure corrections or crop.

To make it easy to compare the changes (they are indeed slight), I'm putting the before and afters together.

1





2.  (This one is a bit more dramatic in the waist area)


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## penfolderoldo (Oct 23, 2011)

#2 is fantastic


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## MLeeK (Oct 23, 2011)

They're gorgeous. THe nip tuck on #6 is kinda extra nip tuck. She looks like she's got about a 28 inch waist and a 46 inch bust.


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## CCericola (Oct 23, 2011)

If you had not told me they were morphed I wouldn't have noticed. The photograph takes me right to her face. Excellent job


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## D-B-J (Oct 23, 2011)

Well done.


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## tirediron (Oct 23, 2011)

Great work!


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## e.rose (Oct 23, 2011)

bennielou said:


> We all photograph the *real woman*.  The average size of the American Woman is size 14, but not a lot of photographers showcase this *real sized bride*.  I have no idea why!  While most women WANT to be that size zero we see in the magazines, most of us are also keenly aware of the reality of our body type.  *Real life sized brides*, or those that are in the plus sized category appreciate a photographer that can showcase them in a way that makes them feel as gorgeous as they are.  There is a definate market out there for the photographers who court *this real American woman.*



What am I?  Chopped liver? :greenpbl:

Someone's gonna have to break the news to my husband that I'm not a real woman...  
.
.
.
.
Nice job with your client.  I agree that both 3 is a beautiful image and that number 6 is a little *too* nip tucky... I don't think it's the amount you brought in her waste so much as the... what's the word I'm looking for?  Wait.  Let me start again.    If you would have brought in her waste in a more gradual degree, it would look more realistic, rather than... no tuck, no tuck, no tuck, SUDDEN TUCK, no tuck, no tuck...

Does that make sense?

I'm not good with the English language today, apparently.  

Overall, nice job though. :sillysmi:


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## tirediron (Oct 23, 2011)

e.rose said:


> What am I? Chopped liver? :greenpbl:


D'ya really have to ask?


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## e.rose (Oct 24, 2011)

tirediron said:


> e.rose said:
> 
> 
> > What am I? Chopped liver? :greenpbl:
> ...



Nooooo... I guess noooot.


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## joealcantar (Oct 24, 2011)

Believe you shot her well,  nicely done. 
-
Shoot well, Joe


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## Mach0 (Oct 24, 2011)

Good job !


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## bennielou (Oct 25, 2011)

No, you are definately not chopped liver! 

Just to make it clear, I'm in the business of extreme retouching.  Big girls want little bodies for their wedding days sometimes, and there is a market for that.  I am there to fill that market.  They know it's all make believe, but they pay me to do that, so I do that.  I'm a bit like a princess fantasy pimp.   That's what I do.


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## bennielou (Oct 25, 2011)

CCericola said:


> If you had not told me they were morphed I wouldn't have noticed. The photograph takes me right to her face. Excellent job



And that is what I hope to accomplish when I do a photo.  I don't want to make it look unreal.  I want it to be her vision of what she thinks she looks like.


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## e.rose (Oct 25, 2011)

bennielou said:


> No, you are definately not chopped liver!
> 
> Just to make it clear, I'm in the business of extreme retouching.  Big girls want little bodies for their wedding days sometimes, and there is a market for that.  I am there to fill that market.  They know it's all make believe, but they pay me to do that, so I do that.  I'm a bit like a princess fantasy pimp.   That's what I do.



Yeah, I get that.  I was just poking fun at your use of the term "real" bride in reference to "average" to "plus sized" women.


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## camz (Oct 25, 2011)

bennielou said:


> I'm a bit like a princess fantasy pimp.  That's what I do.



 :thumbup:

Now that's a nitch!


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## bennielou (Oct 25, 2011)

Exactly!  And that's what I think is the sole reason for having a great business when so many great photogs are taking a dive right now.  I talk all the time about being different.  This is what I mean.  The last thing I want to do is be in a big pool of "everyone else".  What I do is not popular with photographers at large.  But as long as it keeps paying my mortgage, I'm all good.  I don't want to be like everyone else.


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## bennielou (Oct 25, 2011)

e.rose said:


> bennielou said:
> 
> 
> > No, you are definately not chopped liver!
> ...



I'm not sure why that is something to poke fun at. Most women in the US were a size 16.  I don't, you don't, but most women do.  So why not cater to that person and make a crapload of money?


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## camz (Oct 25, 2011)

I hate to say it as it seems one dimensional...but it is all about the bottomline.


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## camz (Oct 25, 2011)

bennielou said:


> CCericola said:
> 
> 
> > If you had not told me they were morphed I wouldn't have noticed. The photograph takes me right to her face. Excellent job
> ...



So is this the majority of your targeted clientele?  I've seen you shoot model type brides before.


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## bennielou (Oct 25, 2011)

camz said:


> bennielou said:
> 
> 
> > CCericola said:
> ...



Hi Camz,
Yes, I shoot all kind of differnt folks.  Some people want more fantasy.  Some people want less.  They are somehow comforted in the fact that I know how to do both.  This is what has kept us alive when I saw most of my friends go under.  They were great people.  Don't get me wrong.  They just had a certain price point which was huge, or they didn't want to deal with the weekend warriors anyore.  They shouldn't have had to deal with them becuase I don't.  You wanna be skinny?  You pay.


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## camz (Oct 25, 2011)

bennielou said:


> camz said:
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> 
> > bennielou said:
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While I don't agree with that approach, I defintely appreciate your business sense and your nitch.


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## e.rose (Oct 25, 2011)

bennielou said:


> e.rose said:
> 
> 
> > bennielou said:
> ...



You're missing the point.  

I'm not talking about your catering to that person... I was simply poking fun at the language you were using implying that anyone *not* that size wasn't a real woman.

You kept talking about size 16 brides and using the terms "real woman", "real bride", "real this and that"... as if anyone below that size isn't "real".  :greenpbl:

I was playing around with your words... not your business model.  

I get what you're doing, I respect what you're doing, and you're smart for doing it.  I have no qualms with that... you don't have to get so defensive.

I'm not attacking your work or your clientele, so chillax. :hug::


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## Derrel (Oct 25, 2011)

Skinny girls have feelings too...which is something I am getting from e.rose86'sd posts...how big people are depends in some part on where they are...the American south is filled with obese people...I went to the midwest once and was AMAZED at the heft and girth of the girls, the young women, and the mature women--I never really understood the references to, "Corn-fed midwestern gal" until I went to the midwest and saw it with my own eyes...currently, I am living near a community where the "average" woman of 30-45 is physically fit, exercises regularly, and likely as not, has a fitness club membership and or a personal trainer....the "moms" at school are definitely not the "real" women that bennielou speaks of, but are skinny, spandex-wearing, yuppie, MILF-y types, to the extreme.


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## e.rose (Oct 25, 2011)

Derrel said:


> skinny, spandex-wearing, yuppie, MILF-y types, to the extreme.





I don't know why, but that made me laugh really hard.


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## MissCream (Oct 25, 2011)

I'm not really small anymore (getting there though) but I saw a picture on Facebook the other day that had a picture of Marilyn Monroe and some skinny model. It said that the skinny model wasn't attractive.. It kind of bugged me because I have friends that physically cannot gain weight! If larger women feel like they are being made fun of or not seen as attractive why are they pointing their finger in the other direction saying that skinny girls aren't attractive? I think that we should be focusing on the good in a person vs how they look on the outside. 

Bennie, I'm not saying that you were doing this


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## e.rose (Oct 25, 2011)

MissCream said:


> I'm not really small anymore (getting there though) but I saw a picture on Facebook the other day that had a picture of Marilyn Monroe and some skinny model. It said that the skinny model wasn't attractive.. It kind of bugged me because I have friends that physically cannot gain weight! If larger women feel like they are being made fun of or not seen as attractive why are they pointing their finger in the other direction saying that skinny girls aren't attractive? I think that we should be focusing on the good in a person vs how they look on the outside.



I know exactly which picture you're talking about.  It's been making it's rounds... and I totally agree with you.


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## KAikens318 (Oct 25, 2011)

So I like all of the photos where you have not touched her waistline. Number 6, for myself, would be super offensive to me. If someone cut that much out of my waist, I would take it to mean that they thought I looked to large, didn't look good as I was, and didn't think that I viewed myself as a beautiful person just the way I am. You talk about how 'real' women are size 14, and yet you PP your photos to make them smaller? I understand that society looks down on us fatties, but you know what, not all of us wish to be skinny. If this was her wish, to look like she had a tiny waist when she really doesn't, I guess that is her prerogative, but like I said, if I got photos back from my wedding photog and she had decided to chop out some of my body, I would take some serious offense and send those photos right back.

Other than that, I like her poses, the lighting is good in most, the first couple look a little blown, but nothing horrible.

There is my two cents. Take it for what it's worth.


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## bennielou (Oct 25, 2011)

I saw that photo too Miss Cream.  It showed a side by side of Marilyn, and some skinny actress, and I totally agree.  I think a curvy girl is beautiful.  I think a lot of guys agree.
The problem is, our outlook on ourselves.  Not you and me, but many girls have major drama with how they view themselves, and they aren't happy until they see themselves as they "see themselves" if that makes sense.  I've gone back and forth about this, because I know I am reinforcing the myth.


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## bennielou (Oct 25, 2011)

KAikens318 said:


> So I like all of the photos where you have not touched her waistline. Number 6, for myself, would be super offensive to me. If someone cut that much out of my waist, I would take it to mean that they thought I looked to large, didn't look good as I was, and didn't think that I viewed myself as a beautiful person just the way I am. You talk about how 'real' women are size 14, and yet you PP your photos to make them smaller? I understand that society looks down on us fatties, but you know what, not all of us wish to be skinny. If this was her wish, to look like she had a tiny waist when she really doesn't, I guess that is her prerogative, but like I said, if I got photos back from my wedding photog and she had decided to chop out some of my body, I would take some serious offense and send those photos right back.
> 
> Other than that, I like her poses, the lighting is good in most, the first couple look a little blown, but nothing horrible.
> 
> There is my two cents. Take it for what it's worth.



I totally understand what you are saying and agree.  I think she is beautiful as she is.  HOWEVER, she didn't want to be how she is.  She wanted nips and tucks and told me where and paid extra to do so.  

It was her wish.  So I did it.


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## KAikens318 (Oct 25, 2011)

bennielou said:


> I totally understand what you are saying and agree.  I think she is beautiful as she is.  HOWEVER, she didn't want to be how she is.  She wanted nips and tucks and told me where and paid extra to do so.
> 
> It was her wish.  So I did it.



And that is sad because she is gorgeous just the way she is. I wonder if she will look at these pictures all the meantime thinking that it's not real, it's just a fantasy, and that she is not being real with herself. I as well have seen the side by side of Marilyn and the only thing I could think was, yeah, the one on the right is malnourished, but the one on the left isn't a 'real' woman either. She is curvy and skinny, and lower than a size 10. A real woman is someone like 

Camryn Manheim:
File:Camryn Manheim.jpg - Wikimedia Commons

She is beautiful the way she is and she knows it. 

I get so angry when people refer to someone who is still under a size 12 as 'plus size', such as the winner of a cycle of America's Next Top Model, Whitney

America's Next Top Model: Whitney Thompson Offers Holiday Fashion Advice

She is gorgeous no doubt, but she is not plus size in a real sense. Maybe for the modeling world yes, but they need to get someone on that show who is a larger girl.

It's giving girls such an unhealthy body image and putting thoughts in their heads that they are not beautiful if they don't look like most of the models and actresses.

This bride is beautiful and it makes me sad that she doesn't see it. 

I will stop ranting now. (obviously a sore subject lol)


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## MTVision (Oct 25, 2011)

KAikens318 said:
			
		

> So I like all of the photos where you have not touched her waistline. Number 6, for myself, would be super offensive to me. If someone cut that much out of my waist, I would take it to mean that they thought I looked to large, didn't look good as I was, and didn't think that I viewed myself as a beautiful person just the way I am. You talk about how 'real' women are size 14, and yet you PP your photos to make them smaller? I understand that society looks down on us fatties, but you know what, not all of us wish to be skinny. If this was her wish, to look like she had a tiny waist when she really doesn't, I guess that is her prerogative, but like I said, if I got photos back from my wedding photog and she had decided to chop out some of my body, I would take some serious offense and send those photos right back.
> 
> Other than that, I like her poses, the lighting is good in most, the first couple look a little blown, but nothing horrible.
> 
> There is my two cents. Take it for what it's worth.



There was another thread where a person said that they normally make all the girls they photograph skinnier - even skinny girls. A couple other people chimed in because they did the same. The girls are happier that way I guess. So, it's not that uncommon and it seems to happen to most girls. 

I found it a little upsetting that females these days have such bad body images that they want them altered in photos but if that is what makes them feel happier - then that's what should be done.


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## e.rose (Oct 25, 2011)

KAikens318 said:


> A real woman is someone like
> 
> Camryn Manheim:
> File:Camryn Manheim.jpg - Wikimedia Commons



And she's beautiful, don't get me wrong... but a real woman is... well... generally speaking someone with a vagina, ovaries, cervix... etc. Period. 

I'm so sick of everyone defining "real women" by their size, be it small, average, or plus sized.

Saying that "real" women are only women size 12 - 18, or what have you... or others shaped like the woman above... is a slap to the face to those of us who are naturally petite.

Just like "average" and/or "plus sized" woman can develop complexes about their weight and feel like they *need* to lose it when they look perfectly fine, healthy, and beautiful the way they are... thin women can develop complexes about *their* weight too and feel like they *need* to *gain* it when they look perfectly fine, healthy, and beautiful the way they are.

If we want to get it *right* society shouldn't be looking down on *any* woman for their weight.

Of course there are instances where too much or too little weight is getting into the realm of "unhealthy", but GENERALLY speaking, a "real" woman doesn't just encompass "average" sized woman any more than it should encompass just those of us still forced to shop in the children's section. 

I swear it too me two hours to peal those stupid little blinking flowers off my child-sized sneakers......  

/soapbox.  (Obviously a sore subject for me as well   )


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## tirediron (Oct 25, 2011)

Real woman:  Carbon-based, bipedal life-form found on the planet earth.  Walks upright (except occasionally on Saturday evenings), capable of verbal and non-verbal communication and bearing live young.  Available in a wide range of hieghts, weights, colours and statures.


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## e.rose (Oct 25, 2011)

MTVision said:


> KAikens318 said:
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Yeah.  I have no qualms with people re-shaping in photographs, if you will.  If the bride asked for it, Bennie gave her what she want.

I still thinks that particular image could use a little more *gradual* tuck... but... for all I know the bride wants that super-corset look. 

My issue is with the definition of "real woman".  Clearly.  

Ah, God, I gotta get back to this **** I'm working on.  I'm SO CLOSE to being done!  :lmao:


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## e.rose (Oct 25, 2011)

tirediron said:


> Real woman:  Carbon-based, bipedal life-form found on the planet earth.  Walks upright (except occasionally on Saturday evenings), capable of verbal and non-verbal communication and bearing live young.  Available in a wide range of hieghts, weights, colours and statures.



THANK YOU!

I dunno where my friggin' like button went... but THANK you.


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## tirediron (Oct 25, 2011)

e.rose said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> > Real woman: Carbon-based, bipedal life-form found on the planet earth. Walks upright (except occasionally on Saturday evenings), capable of verbal and non-verbal communication and bearing live young. Available in a wide range of hieghts, weights, colours and statures.
> ...


You are welcome!


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## bennielou (Oct 25, 2011)

I understand what you are saying e.rose.  the thing about we women, is that we come in all shapes and sizes, and it's all good.  

I've felt conflicted about this for a while. Here is my personal experience.... 

When I was younger, I was super thin.  I'm 6 foot tall and for most of my life I weighed 124 Lbs.  Then I hit 40.  My body had a mind of it's own.  I hated photos of myself, because they didn't look like the me I still saw in the mirror.  I could only see a one diminutional image in the mirror, When I saw  something else I would freak.  even though that 140 lb girl was me, it's not how I saw myself.  So I could see how these gals felt.

Not too long ago I had a client that totally cried when she saw herself in wedding photos.  She told me that she was skinny when she got engaged, then she found out she had a huge brain tumor.  Two years later she is getting married and is 100 lbs heavier.  Because of her cancer treatment her whole body changed.  Her now hubby loved her just the same, but she didn't love how she looked.  She knew that when she asked me to "change her back"  (she sent me photos to work off of) that she didn't look like she did right now.  I told her that she shouldn't do it.  But that is what she wanted more than anything.  So I did.  I was super conflicted because part of me was happy that I could help her feel better, bit the other part of me felt like I was reinforcing negativity in regards to her current body type.  This is an argument ghat I have with myself quite a bit.


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## bennielou (Oct 25, 2011)

Note|. Using your iPAd to post sucks most harshly..... Lol.


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## cgipson1 (Oct 25, 2011)

Bennielou, my main issue with what you do.. is that this gives them yet another excuse not to lose weight. (Oh, see how "skinny" I was for my wedding)...yea right (self delusion??)!  The current obesity problem is caused by overindulgence in bad food, and too much TV / lack of exercise. I have a medical background, and my girlfriend still works in the medical field, and know for a fact that very few obese people have glandular problems that cause the weight, although MANY claim it. Calling "FAT" by the term "BIG" is just BS... Fat is Fat is FAT.. even if they don't want to admit it. The whole tacit acceptance of this is terrible.. too many health problems, social issues and people unhappy with themselves! 

If they hate themselves so much that they are willing to pay "extra" for you to photoshop the pounds off.. why don't they just adopt a healthier lifestyle? I really don't understand this...

How is this different than some dork putting Brad Pitt's face on his photo, and posting it on a dating site? Still a LIE!


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## e.rose (Oct 25, 2011)

bennielou said:


> I understand what you are saying e.rose.  the thing about we women, is that we come in all shapes and sizes, and it's all good.
> 
> I've felt conflicted about this for a while. Here is my personal experience....
> 
> ...




Dude... again... I have *NO ISSUE* with you retouching the way you do.  Seriously.

My point was LITERALLY and ONLY about your *word choice*.

It had *nothing*... I repeat... NOTHING to do with the photos themselves or what you do to them 

You don't have to justify to me why you slim down your clients.  I slim down everyone I shoot too... even if it's just a little.  It's just part of retouching.

The only thing I mentioned that HAD to do with the photos was about how drastic you took in her waist on #6(?).  NOT because you took in her waist, but because in my opinion the way you did it looks unnatural.  My suggestion wasn't *NOT* to tuck her it... it was just to tuck her in at a more gradual rate... start up higher... end down lower... bring her in the same amount but make the slope not as steep... and then it might look more natural.  But that's just my opinion.

And that opinion had *nothing*... I repeat again... NOTHING... to do with my posts about the definition of women... which again, was purely based on your choice of words.



I don't know how many times I have to try and explain it before you understand that I'm not coming down on your work.


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## bennielou (Oct 26, 2011)

Hi E.  No, not at all.  I didn't take what you said as coming down on my work at all.  And I agree with you on the 6th photo.  I tend to overdo things sometimes. LOL.  But your suggestion is dead on.

Actually, I thought about what you were saying a lot last night.  About my choice of words....  You made some great points.  And I promise I did not mean to offend anyone who wears under a size 12. :hug::

I guess what I was trying to say is that larger women are a good percentage of the population, yet we so seldom see them in portfolios.  I'm as guilty of that as anyone, and something I want to change when I update my site in December.


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## e.rose (Oct 26, 2011)

bennielou said:


> And I promise I did not mean to offend anyone who wears under a size 12. :hug::



I know it wasn't *intentional* :sillysmi:



bennielou said:


> I guess what I was trying to say is that larger women are a good percentage of the population, yet we so seldom see them in portfolios.  I'm as guilty of that as anyone, and something I want to change when I update my site in December.



I agree with you there. :sillysmi:


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## LightSpeed (Oct 26, 2011)

bennielou said:


> We all photograph the real woman.  The average size of the American Woman is size 14, but not a lot of photographers showcase this real sized bride.  I have no idea why!  While most women WANT to be that size zero we see in the magazines, most of us are also keenly aware of the reality of our body type.  Real life sized brides, or those that are in the plus sized category appreciate a photographer that can showcase them in a way that makes them feel as gorgeous as they are.  There is a definate market out there for the photographers who court this real American woman.



I'd rather marry a woman who doesn't appear to be a professional football player when she's walking away from you.
I think what you're trying to say is, " Size 14 or better women appreciate a photographer who can make them look LESS FAT."
Obviously, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, as one might say. Some men are rather attracted to plus sized, husky women.
I prefer mine somewhat smaller than the beautifully imaged bride above. Like half that size.
This, however, doesn't detract from your skills as a photographer, nor was it ever meant to.


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## gsgary (Oct 27, 2011)

e.rose said:


> KAikens318 said:
> 
> 
> > A real woman is someone like
> ...



A realy woman is one that knows how to look after her man in bed  i like the slim fit women yet my best mate likes them bigger because they try harder in bed


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## e.rose (Oct 27, 2011)

gsgary said:


> e.rose said:
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> 
> > KAikens318 said:
> ...





Well apparently my slim ass was good enough for my husband to decide to marry soooooooo...


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## jahcyber (Nov 20, 2011)

Yeah, the 'work' done was good,  I could not see any trace of it anywhere. A thumbnail of the original photos would be great so we'll know where things have been altered.


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## Cpi2011 (Nov 24, 2011)

You've done really awesome job! thanks a lot for sharing this nice photos collection 2nd and 3rd images are my favorite.


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## Mark_McCall (Nov 24, 2011)

bennielou said:


> they pay me to do that, so I do that.  I'm a bit like a princess fantasy pimp.   That's what I do.



I think a lot of photographers miss this point. We're paid to do a job so we do it. 
If your known for a look, clients will come to you seeking that look. 
Not every affluent client is a size 3. 

Nice series, *awesome* location. 

I probably wouldn't have pointed her directly into the camera as it adds weight we're trying to remove later. We're fighting ourselves. 
Slight body angle, weight on the back foot, short lighting all make for a slimmer subject. 

Shot #2 has the weight distributed correctly. She would have been even slimmer by leaning with the back hip as well instead of bending at the waist. 
I probably wouldn't have allowed her to lie down either. People "grow" when reclining.


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