# Heloine - Poolside/Bikini Shoot



## DGMPhotography (Sep 20, 2017)

First from my shoot with Heloine!


 

C&C welcome.


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## jaomul (Sep 20, 2017)

Model is nice, pose is nice, colour (on my screen) looks nice. I'd question the background, looks like old sheds or something, obviously they can often be good, but not sure about here


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## limr (Sep 20, 2017)

I agree. Something about the background, the crumpled towel, and the twisted straps feels a little like an impromptu "Hey baby, I can get you into the pictures..." pick-up strategy.

Lighting, color, dof, comp...all seem fine, but the devil is so often in the details.


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## vintagesnaps (Sep 20, 2017)

And she needed to adjust the swimsuit bottom due to the way she's turned, as well as the straps to the top, they're all twisted. It looks like you need to see everything in the viewfinder before you release the shutter.


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## jcdeboever (Sep 20, 2017)

I don't like it, looks like a blonde version of my ex. Nightmare's to start tonight.


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## DGMPhotography (Sep 20, 2017)

vintagesnaps said:


> And she needed to adjust the swimsuit bottom due to the way she's turned, as well as the straps to the top, they're all twisted. It looks like you need to see everything in the viewfinder before you release the shutter.



Somehow you always find a way to be snarky. Anyways... thank you everyone for the feedback. I noticed the straps while editing and was instantly disappointed, but I think it's a decent image nevertheless.


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## limr (Sep 20, 2017)

DGMPhotography said:


> vintagesnaps said:
> 
> 
> > And she needed to adjust the swimsuit bottom due to the way she's turned, as well as the straps to the top, they're all twisted. It looks like you need to see everything in the viewfinder before you release the shutter.
> ...



Sharon can speak for herself, but I don't think she's trying to be snarky. And no one said it wasn't a decent image, but just suggested you pay more attention to details that are detracting from the overall image. You _did_ ask for C&C.


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## tirediron (Sep 20, 2017)

DGMPhotography said:


> vintagesnaps said:
> 
> 
> > And she needed to adjust the swimsuit bottom due to the way she's turned, as well as the straps to the top, they're all twisted. It looks like you need to see everything in the viewfinder before you release the shutter.
> ...


Oh come on man.... put on your big-boy panties.  That's not being snarky, but objectively telling you what's needed for improvement.  I'll take it one step further and say that you need to look at the whole scene and check for issues before you even pick up the camera.  That said, none of us are perfect and we all miss things.  I recently did a session for a client and was all ready to pack it in when he noticed that his colour was a little skewed; about the same impact to the image as your twisted straps here.  It was minor, but it was an issue, and I had missed it completely. 

For me, there are just too many little details; the folded towel, missing fingertips, the way her bikini panty is sitting...  when you're posing a model like this, make sure you don't let them rest on the bed/cot/whatever.  While it's not bad in this case, it often causes breasts and arms to take on odd shapes.  Have them use their core to support themselves, and arrange arms/legs/hands to suit.  Yes, it will be uncomfortable, but... that's a model's lot in life.


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## jcdeboever (Sep 20, 2017)

I was distracted from the first view. I am so shallow. (limr. peg, and vintage now officially flip me off). I love them by the way....


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## Donde (Sep 20, 2017)

I personally don't mind the straps or bikini bottom but suppose they're no nos for a professional shooting. I agree with some others that the background is too "industrial".  My main concern though is the crop is very tight and could use more space at least at the bottom.  Sounds like some pretty good professional advice above.


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## Dean_Gretsch (Sep 20, 2017)

I am a hobbyist photographer at best and know nothing at all about portraiture. I would never have even noticed the straps or bunched material of the bikini. For some reason, cropping the legs is what I keep being drawn to. Is that a matter of taste or am I just wrong in being bothered by that?


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## pendennis (Sep 20, 2017)

Like the pose, the "come hither" look in her eyes, and the fact that they follow the viewer.

Criticism - Lighting is a bit too contrasty.  Shadow side a bit too dark, and the highlight side a bit too bright (light on her forehead is a bit strong);  Too much light on the tip of her nose.  I would also come down a stop to increase DOF.  I'd like to see entire body closer to the central focus.  The background works for me.  I'd straighten out the straps, as the twists are a bit distracting.

Great shot!


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## Derrel (Sep 20, 2017)

tirediron said:
			
		

> Oh come on man.... put on your big-boy panties.  That's not being snarky, but objectively telling you what's needed for improvement.  I'll take it one step further and say that you need to look at the whole scene and check for issues before you even pick up the camera.  That said, none of us are perfect and we all miss things.  I recently did a session for a client and was all ready to pack it in when he noticed that his colour was a little skewed; about the same impact to the image as your twisted straps here.  It was minor, but it was an issue, and I had missed it completely.
> 
> For me, there are just too many little details; the folded towel, missing fingertips, the way her bikini panty is sitting...  when you're posing a model like this, make sure you don't let them rest on the bed/cot/whatever.  While it's not bad in this case, it often causes breasts and arms to take on odd shapes.  Have them use their core to support themselves, and arrange arms/legs/hands to suit.  Yes, it will be uncomfortable, but... that's a model's lot in life.



Exactly....the styling on this is amiss...way to many details that are just not right. I'll add that her eyeballs look odd...not liking the way the eyes are rendered. But the bijini top and bikini bottom...just not enough attention payed to the way the clothing is set up on her...little details or major issues? In the context of a bikini top, the spaghetti straps simply must be adjusted properly...and the bikini bottom needs to fit right, or be shown from another angle.

As to the background: to me, this appears to be shot from closer than optimal, with a shortish lens: her nose looks rather big, and the backdrop looks too much in-focus...this is just not a well-established shot...sorry to rain on your parade, but this is not the kind of stuff you want to be shooting and showing except for C&C...I am not a fan of the lens focal length or the camera placement or the styling/propping of this shot. She's cute, but she is not "maximized" by careful lenswork. In fact, it looks like the short lens is making her nose look too big.


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## Derrel (Sep 20, 2017)

As pendinnis suggest as well: INCREASE thedepth of field; the foreground and the OOF of focus hip detract from the realistic showing of an attractive woman in a swimsuit. Look at the wqay her beautiful hipo-line is rendfered as out of focvus with a distracting double-line tendency from that lens...not pretty...and it's on avery important part of her. The OOF foreground? Needs more DOF...

the lack of depth of field and the exaggerated nose size are two cluies that make me suspect the lens focal length was too short, and the camera too CLOSE to her: depth of field is *mostly affected by the camera-to-subject distance*, more so than focal length or magnification, at least at this intermediate range...this is a shot that could have easily been improved by being shot from 30 feet away with a 300mm lens at f/5.6...


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## Designer (Sep 20, 2017)

vintagesnaps said:


> And she needed to adjust the swimsuit bottom due to the way she's turned, as well as the straps to the top, they're all twisted. It looks like you need to see everything in the viewfinder before you release the shutter.


I don't know what you see that's wrong with the bikini bottom.  I do see the twisted straps after you mentioned it, but overall, this is not the kind of photograph that is supposed to be high fashion.  Very casual.  Wrinkles in the towel and twisted straps are an expected part of the overall tone of this shot. 

There is one thing that I am wondering about, and that is the color of her forehead.  For some reason, I would expect her face to be about the same color as the rest of her, and it's not. 

That is all.


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## pendennis (Sep 20, 2017)

Derrel said:


> ...
> Exactly....the styling on this is amiss...way to many details that are just not right. I'll add that her eyeballs look odd...not liking the way the eyes are rendered...



I noticed that about her eyes, also.  The catch lights aren't symmetrical.  This could be a natural "problem" with the model's eyes.  I've seen it before with subjects who had cross- or wall-eye conditions.  Sometimes you can edit the catch lights in post editing.  I had a customer once, whose eyes weren't symmetrical, and the catch lights were corrected by the processing lab.


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## limr (Sep 20, 2017)

jcdeboever said:


> (limr. peg, and vintage now officially flip me off). I love them by the way....



Done!


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## vintagesnaps (Sep 20, 2017)

What I noticed Designer is the swimsuit bottom gaps (away from her body). Probably when she got positioned she moved one way and the bikini didn't. She probably just needed to reach back and give it a tug so it'd fit smoothly against her body in the front.


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## vintagesnaps (Sep 20, 2017)

I don't mean to be snarky Daryl. It just seems like you often aren't completely seeing what's in the viewfinder or on the viewscreen before you snap the shutter button. I feel like I keep noticing that in your work. I'd suggest getting out and practicing more just with the camera, without models, in framing shots and 'seeing' everything that's going to be in the picture.

I'm sure everyone misses things at times. I hate when something is in the edge of the frame and I didn't see it. But I'm a longtime film photographer and there was no fixing those type mistakes later except to have an enlargement made and physically with a paper cutter crop the print down. Or just live with it. So I guess it was necessary to learn to frame shots pretty well. I think you just need more practice at that and noticing details.


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## Tomasko (Sep 21, 2017)

Dean_Gretsch said:


> I am a hobbyist photographer at best and know nothing at all about portraiture. I would never have even noticed the straps or bunched material of the bikini. For some reason, cropping the legs is what I keep being drawn to. Is that a matter of taste or am I just wrong in being bothered by that?


More like you just want to see more of her


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## Granddad (Sep 21, 2017)

vintagesnaps said:


> And she needed to adjust the swimsuit bottom due to the way she's turned, as well as the straps to the top, they're all twisted. It looks like you need to see everything in the viewfinder before you release the shutter.



Take it on the chin my friend. The same sort of advice has been given to me on a number of occasions when I was expecting rave reviews and in every case it stung like lemon juice on a paper cut... but it was still true and I had to suck it up and learn from it. 

Take comfort in the fact that people think you're skills are sufficient to warrant honest (sometimes uncomfortably so) critique and that they expect better of you. Personally I look forward to your posts because I know you're serious about your work (and find the best models  )


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## Braineack (Sep 21, 2017)

I have the perfect solution for the swimsuit issues!


....




okay, back to lurking i go...


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## DGMPhotography (Sep 21, 2017)

Everyone has made good points. 

I know Sharon gives good advice, but the way she said it basically sounded to me like, "use your eyes," which felt condescending. If that wasn't the intention, then I apologize for that, for I was mistaken. But that's how it felt.

I used my 50mm for this shot. But since it has been suggested to me several times, I actually did use my 70-300mm for this shoot as well. We didn't have enough space to zoom all the way in, but I did experiment with it, and will share some of those images later. Of all the shots, this one was one of my favorites, though.

Overall, I still like how the photo turned out. Not perfect, but to the untrained eye (which most of my audience is), it looks pretty good, and thus I'm okay with sharing it.


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## jcdeboever (Sep 21, 2017)

DGMPhotography said:


> Everyone has made good points.
> 
> I know Sharon gives good advice, but the way she said it basically sounded to me like, "use your eyes," which felt condescending. If that wasn't the intention, then I apologize for that, for I was mistaken. But that's how it felt.
> 
> ...


Well at least  she didn't say keep practicing. Geez dude, I suck at Photography and if Sharon critiqued me, I would be happy. Lighten up my brother.


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## tecboy (Sep 21, 2017)

DGMPhotography said:


> Everyone has made good points.
> 
> I know Sharon gives good advice, but the way she said it basically sounded to me like, "use your eyes," which felt condescending. If that wasn't the intention, then I apologize for that, for I was mistaken. But that's how it felt.



I don't think she is trying to make you feel condescending. When Sharon critiques my images, she has a point and straight-on.  I became a better photographer because of her.

Just relax and don't worry.  Just keep shooting.


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## DGMPhotography (Sep 21, 2017)

Y'all seem to think I'm all bent out of shape or something. I'm perfectly fine with it. Just wanted her to know how her comment came across to me. 

Plenty of people have given critique here without it sounding that way. 

And it would seem she didn't mean it that way so it's not a big deal.


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## jcdeboever (Sep 21, 2017)

That's the problem with texting, email, forum responses. It is hard to ascertain the real communication.


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## davidharmier60 (Sep 21, 2017)

I'll just say I'd hit that and let it go at that.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## limr (Sep 21, 2017)

davidharmier60 said:


> I'll just say I'd hit that and let it go at that.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## pjaye (Sep 22, 2017)

davidharmier60 said:


> I'll just say I'd hit that and let it go at that.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk



Seriously? You think that comment is appropriate?


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## davidharmier60 (Sep 22, 2017)

No. But it's REALLY all I got.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## Braineack (Sep 22, 2017)

my biggest problem outside of the pose/clothing issues is the how ice cold you made the image -- she looks purple:


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## DGMPhotography (Sep 22, 2017)

Braineack said:


> my biggest problem outside of the pose/clothing issues is the how ice cold you made the image -- she looks purple:
> 
> View attachment 147122
> 
> View attachment 147121



On my screen, the way you edited it looks like she's in an inferno - way too warm!


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## Braineack (Sep 22, 2017)

she's in a bikini; she should look hot.

she's outside; the sun is warm.


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## davidharmier60 (Sep 22, 2017)

And y'all was giving me a hard time..



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## DGMPhotography (Sep 22, 2017)

Idk man... I think that's a bit overboard. But that's just my opinion.


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## limr (Sep 22, 2017)

Yeah, I agree - how about we all just remain focused on the photo itself and its merits rather than objectifying the model and declaring how a woman should or shouldn't look, hmmmmmm?


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## Parker219 (Sep 22, 2017)

I showed the original photo to my girlfriend  ( untrained eye ) and she said "why are her bikini bottoms messed up and was it cold outside because her skin looks blue". Also she should dye her roots.


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## tirediron (Sep 22, 2017)

DGMPhotography said:


> Idk man... I think that's a bit overboard. But that's just my opinion.


Agree; on my calibrated monitor, it would appear that 'ideal' is about halfway between the two.


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## DGMPhotography (Sep 22, 2017)

This has all been very insightful. This was only my second bikini shoot, and I feel that I've definitely learned a lot. Thank you all.


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## DanOstergren (Sep 23, 2017)

Aside from the other issues that have already been pointed out, I think you took the retouching on her face too far. She has a plastic look to her face that doesn't look real. I see hints of poors here and there, but there are also areas where it looks like any detail was just completely smoothed over. Did you use frequency separation? If so, I think it's about time that you give dodging a burning a try, or at least try reducing the amount of perfecting that you apply to certain areas of the skin.


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## DGMPhotography (Sep 23, 2017)

DanOstergren said:


> Aside from the other issues that have already been pointed out, I think you took the retouching on her face too far. She has a plastic look to her face that doesn't look real. I see hints of poors here and there, but there are also areas where it looks like any detail was just completely smoothed over. Did you use frequency separation? If so, I think it's about time that you give dodging a burning a try, or at least try reducing the amount of perfecting that you apply to certain areas of the skin.



I don't use frequency separation anymore. And this actually _was _dodge and burn. I think I went a bit too far on the forehead, but I couldn't find a good balance.


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