# desperate wedding photographer



## naptime (Jan 24, 2012)

so, my sister has been working with a photographer for some time now. 

he's a one man shop in Michigan. does good work in my opinion. 

conducts himself professionally, take good photos, has fair prices, uses a good lab for prints, etc...

she first met him last year when she wanted to do some family photos for a calendar, cards, etc...

she was happy with the service, and very happy with the photos.


so a few months later, her boyfriend proposes, so she calls up her photographer, and had him take them out and do some engagement photos areound town, at the river, in the park, etc..

again, very happy with the service, and very happy with the photos.


now mind you, they are not friends so to speak. they met as client/photographer.

it has since turned into sort of a friendship because they have so much contact. 

she has referred people to him. she has her photos posted on Facebook (with his permission, and they all link to his business Facebook page)

he's had a few Facebook voting type contests, and she won one of them.

so anyway, she has booked him for the wedding.

iirc it was in the area of about $2000 and she gave him a deposit for $500 to reserve the date. the other $1500 is due on the wedding day.

so, he calls her up two days ago.. and needs a major favor....

there's some god awful great deal on a piece of equipment that he NEEDS to get. (she THINKS it was a lens) 
whatever it was, it normally costs thousands. and he's buying it used from someone that needs some quick cash to fix his car.. and he can buy it NOW for a thousand dollars.

but, the guy selling it, needs cash NOW. so it's first come first serve. my sisters photographer really wants it , because its in great condition and he could normally never get it for this price.

but, he doesn't have a grand. he's only got $500 at the moment. so he's gonna miss out on the deal.

so, he calls her, and says if there is any way she can pay him another 500 towards her wedding, now, then he will call it even on her wedding package. and cut a grand from her bill. and, so she knows he's not trying to cheat her, he's offered her a new contract, with the new price on it, and shows paid in full.

she trusts him. and believes it's legit so she went with it.

she got her wedding half off.
he got this new equipment.
and the other dude gets his car fixed.

everyone wins.


i can't think of what piece of equipment that would be so valuable it's worth giving up a grand cash for a job.????

unless the grand he's paying for the equipment is really THAT expensive otherwise..


anyway, just thought i'd share...  like i said i don't think he's trying to rip her off, he's respectable enough. i just thought it was funny that he was willing to give up a future grand, for 500 now to get this equipment. and she was all too happy to help him out and save a grand.


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## Robin Usagani (Jan 24, 2012)

wow.. im speechless.  I guess thats good for your sister.

I never want my clients to view me as desperate or  have bad credit LMAO.


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## tirediron (Jan 24, 2012)

Ummm.....  wow.  That sounds REALLY dodgy to me.


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## sparks017 (Jan 24, 2012)

I don't see anything wrong with that. You said they were close almost like friends, so he probably trusts her as well. That is probably one if the reasons why he asked her, he knows her and knows that he is doing her wedding. Could of been a lens and if it is roughly a couple grand than sacrificing a grand for a good client is not a bad offer foe either.


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## Derrel (Jan 25, 2012)

Something tells me this is legit. YOU are closer to the situation than we are. There is plenty of gear that people will sell for as low as 20 cents on the dollar in order to get a car repaired. The grand is doubtless MORE than he could pawn the gear for, so he turns to a buddy, who's more likely to pay $1k, rather than the $400 the pawnbroker will offer him...this economy sucks...people need cold,hard cash--often. Let's say it's a new Canon 70-200 Mark II, or an almost new 5D-II, and the guy with the car in the shop needs $1k to GET HIS CAR BACK!!!!


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## naptime (Jan 25, 2012)

yeah, i don't think he's planning to screw her at all.

they've become friends since she's used him often, and he's already booked for the wedding etc..

he explained the situation to her, and told her everything . he told her what the equipment was, but she doesn't remember if it was a new lens or a new camera body. all she felt like remembering was that she just saved a grand on her wedding.

and he called her first, because she's given him some back promotion, so he wanted to offer the discount to her first. but also because he figured that she would have the money because she gets paid pretty well.

i've no doubt he would have called on his next friendly client, or friends, etc...


i just wish i knew what the piece was that he was buying. 

iirc he told her he was saving over a thousand by getting this used piece. so he offered her a thousand off her wedding. 


yep. when people are desperate they'll sell stuff cheap.


i bought my motorcyle two years ago.. for 500 bucks. less than 2 thousand miles on it. they guy still had his receipt from when he bought it a month earlier.... for 700. AND he had the receipts for the two brand new tires and the oil change and new battery..

but on this particular day. he wanted 500 firm.

he was a self employed hvac guy. and his tranny went out on the work van. repair cost.... you guessed it. 500 bucks.

he wanted to bartering no games. just 500 firm. 

the way he looked at it, he could lose 400 bucks on the bike. or he could lose a few thousand on lost jobs if he didnt get the van fixed right away.


i just wish she would have paid better attention to what it was. lol.


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## naptime (Jan 25, 2012)

Schwettylens said:


> wow.. im speechless.  I guess thats good for your sister.
> 
> I never want my clients to view me as desperate or  have bad credit LMAO.



well, that was my thought when she first told me..

anytime any client or potential client ask me how business is, i tell them it's great. we're staying busy.

i would never tell someone, i haven't had a print job in two weeks and beg them for business. 

nor would i ever tell a customer that business is booming and i just cant find enough time to get it done. (in my line of work, this customer would then beg for a deal, since you are already making so much on all those customers you have)


but, to call a customer and beg them to pay you 500 today to save a thousand tomorrow... man, that's just crazy. 

it tells me as a customer that your business is so bad you can't afford to buy the equipment you want or need for it.


perhaps he looks at it differently since they have developed a friendship.

i don't know...


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## naptime (Jan 25, 2012)

tirediron said:


> Ummm.....  wow.  That sounds REALLY dodgy to me.



i can see where it might sound like that because i haven't painted an entire picture of their client/photog/friendship..

but i dont think so.

they live in a somewhat small everyone knows everyone town.

they've developed a sort of friendship. he's been out and had a few drinks with her and her fiancee. her ex husband is a cop in town. and of course, her brother is a former ranger. and he knows these things.  i dont think he's trying to screw her over.

when he came to pick up the cash, he brought her a revised contract/invoice/receipt. showing her new total as 1k instead of 2k and everything in the contract was the same. and gave her a receipt showing that she was paid in full.

i don't think it's dodgy at all.

he just had an opportunity to get this new equipment for a grand, and save a bunch of money, but he was 500 short. he knew she would have it, or hoped so. so in return, he gave her a great discount on the wedding. without her, he probably would not have gotten the new peice. unless he was able to get a loan.


it's just funny to me..

because the owner of the equipment is selling it so dirt cheap because he needs to get his car fixed.
and the photographer is now doing the wedding so cheap because he needs this new piece of equipment.
and my sister saves a grand, because she had the 500 sitting in savings.

now, if i can find a way to get her to give me 500 of the grand she saved, for being an awesome older brother when she was growing up, then i'll be alright with that. and in the end she'll still have saved 500. :lmao:


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## Derrel (Jan 25, 2012)

One thing to remember also, about business: it's not evenly-distributed throughout the year. Summertime is big wedding time....late January in Ohio,uh, not so much! Also, the massive money pit that has become the Christmas Season has just ended,and many folks spend more than they can afford for Christmas, due to societal pressure, family expectations,etc. Call an air conditioning company tomorrow, and they will have a repairman there in 30 minutes...one August our central air system went out...took three days to get a service call during that heat wave. Pre-income tax time is a good time to scour pawn shops/classified/Craigslist,etc for good photo gear...in most states there's a wait period for stolen merchandise checks, so beginning in mid-February and continuing into April and even May there's a LOT of pre-owned stuff turning up. Cash money can be very hard to come by in January...


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## Crollo (Jan 25, 2012)

naptime said:


> yeah, i don't think he's planning to screw her at all.



Not without protection, certainly.


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## BlairWright (Jan 25, 2012)

Sounds legit. I have come by those drop everything geals before. 

Ever see a Nikon 300 2.8 VR sell for a grand becuase someone got in financial trouble? I did.. it happens, the guy may be getting a big ticket item for next to nothing.


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## orljustin (Jan 25, 2012)

What kind of "business" doesn't have some sort of credit available in the amount of $500?  Check from the bank or credit card, cash in the account.  This "business" seems like a real winner if he has zero cash on hand.


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## willis_927 (Jan 25, 2012)

Just get the photog to make up a new contract, or update the current contract stating that the deposit had changed from 500$ to 1000$, and has been paid. Or since he is going to drop the other 1000$, put it in the contract that the entire amount has been
paid already.


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## naptime (Jan 25, 2012)

willis_927 said:


> Just get the photog to make up a new contract, or update the current contract stating that the deposit had changed from 500$ to 1000$, and has been paid. Or since he is going to drop the other 1000$, put it in the contract that the entire amount has been
> paid already.



he did. see my other post. he did all of that.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Jan 25, 2012)

orljustin said:


> What kind of "business" doesn't have some sort of credit available in the amount of $500?  Check from the bank or credit card, cash in the account.  This "business" seems like a real winner if he has zero cash on hand.



That was my thought.
This "business" is not successful.


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## CCericola (Jan 25, 2012)

Considering my 150mm for my Hassy was $4500 losing a grand would still be a bargin. I guess it depends on what he is buying. In my opinion I would have rented what I needed until I had the money. There will always be a deal to be had somewhere.


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## Abrahamoloya (Jan 25, 2012)

I would say that's your sister lucky day but, let's not over look the big favour your sister actually  rendered him. Another aspect of the story is that, the guy actually saved a lot money on that equipment and decided to drop the rest of the fee because he's well aware of the profits he will scoop out of the new equipment.


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## thinkricky (Jan 25, 2012)

That's crazy. I don't know what to think. I can understand his business isnt going so well. 

Ask him what equipment! You are going to your sisters wedding right?

On a side note. Why is your username naptime? Just wondering.


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## naptime (Jan 25, 2012)

thinkricky said:


> That's crazy. I don't know what to think. I can understand his business isnt going so well.
> 
> Ask him what equipment! You are going to your sisters wedding right?
> 
> On a side note. Why is your username naptime? Just wondering.



i used to compete, professonally, in r/c car racing, at a national level. i was a sponsored factory racer for a motor and battery company. i also had car, tire, and electronics sponsors.

at the time, i worked for IBM on average 60 hours a week.

so, whenever i had a big race coming up, i would work all day, and then stay up all night working on my gear getting it ready for the race. or work all day, and then spend all night driving to the event. or flying, etc...

as a result, i would sleep most of the day at the race. 

i have a knack for falling asleep anywhere, under any light or noise conditions, and it literally only takes me moments.. to fall asleep when i commit to take a nap. friends and family have always been amazed at just how quickly i am legitimately sleeping .


after i "retired" from r/c racing i moved on to car audio competitions. i owned a car audio shop when i first came home from the service, and dabbled in competing. but when i left r/c racing, i got much more serious. i began competing at a local level, and within the year i was competing at a national level. and within two years, i was at a world level, factory sponsored for amps, speakers, wire, and batteries.  my third year, i was the factory team captain.

at this time, i owned a pizza shop. so i would be at my shop all day, and work on my truck all night. and, come event weekends, i would be in the truck all night, then drive to the event, and sleep at the event. i could be in the stands or in a chair in the lanes, sitting between two of the loudest cars in the world, and sleep.

somewhere along the line, somebody referred to me as Team Naptime because i was always sleeping at events. it stuck. and then people just started calling me Naptime or Nap or Naps.

most of my friends, many of my family members, even my kid on occasion just call me nap. been with me about 10 years i guess.


i don't have any r/c napping pics, as those days were pre-digital, and i had a fire that detroyed all my old film and negatives from years past... but here are some digital pics from my car audio days...







this was at a show once. i am seated 3 feet from where the cars play and blast their music as loud as possible.





you wouldn't know it from the picture, but i am surrounded by some of the loudest cars in the world, all practicing and competing. and about 30 yards behind me was a parking lot where trucks & cars with hydraulics were having a jumping competition, and the crowd was screaming their merry little heads off.





on a very loud bus in the dominican republic. dominicans can be VERY VERY loud on a bus..





at dinner one night with friends, while waiting for our food.. in the middle of a conversation. apparantlyi sat like this for about five minutes, before one of them decided it was worthy of a pic, then they woke me up.





a plane trip... lights out... BEFORE takeoff. i fly 3-4 times a year, for about the past 10 years. and EVERY flight, i am sleep before takeoff, and i wake up on landing. sometimes. many times someone has to wake me up.





car audio competition is sort of like drag racing. two cars pull up side by side and then they are connected to a decible meter. here, i am sitting in my chair, in between the lanes. 10 feet from the cars competing.





and a close up 





one particular event one year in january, half way to cleveland from toledo, we lost our transmission. truck just weighed too much. we had to wait for a tow truck to come get us. here we are on the side of the turnpike.





at a show, waiting to compete.





one show in particular, i blew a voice coil, and had to do a a quick change on one of my speakers before my next round.. problem is there is nothing quick about changing a vertically mounted 60 pound 18" subwoofer.. it made me tired.





sometimes, in the middle of july, in a hot parking lot. it's better to nap in the truck with a/c than to nap outside.





at world finals one year, during the final event, the loudest of the loud were competing.. the stands were packed. i of course, fall asleep. and at the end of the event, everyone left the stands, being sure not to wake me. and then everyone proceeded to take pics.










well, ok.. it was more than one year...





another flight





i'm glad we paid 400 bucks for this exciting deep sea fishing trip.....





and that sir.... is why my username is naptime


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## naptime (Jan 25, 2012)

and yeah, i'll be finding out what equipment it was. she just called me last night and told me about.


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## gsgary (Jan 25, 2012)

Sounds fishy to me, that he can't lay his hands on $1000 it's not as if it's a lot of money


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## matthewo (Jan 25, 2012)

Db drag? I used to do that.  I know a bunch of the big names, and met at bunch of guys on the east coast area


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## naptime (Jan 25, 2012)

gsgary said:


> Sounds fishy to me, that he can't lay his hands on $1000 it's not as if it's a lot of money



it's a lot of money if you don't have it.

i own a silk screen business. i don't believe in credit cards or loans. 

winter time is rough for t shirts especially so when you are the small guy.

i couldn't lay my hands on a thousand dollars tommorrow.

i know people that couldn't lay their hands on a hundred dollars at a moments notice.

what's fishy about not having expendable cash?


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## naptime (Jan 25, 2012)

matthewo said:


> Db drag? I used to do that.  I know a bunch of the big names, and met at bunch of guys on the east coast area



yes. mostly dbdrag. but i also competed in iasca, usaci, and meca. but, mostly dbdrag.

i was the team captain for maxxsonics for three years. sponsored by maxxsonics, RE, hooker audio, stinger, second skin, and ohio generator.


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## Derrel (Jan 25, 2012)

FANTASTIC ASSORTMENT of "naptime" photos!! LMFAO dude! Some of those are hilarious! I too had wondered why your handle is "naptime"...well, now we ALL know!!! The shots of you asleep, up in the stands after the competition was over--those are priceless! Dat is some funny chit man!!


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## APHPHOTO (Jan 25, 2012)

I agree with the previous post. If his business was successfull he wouldnt ask.
Im a self imployed builder, remodeler and would never under any circumstances ever ask 
for a favor like that. Its so not professional. You just dont bring clients into your 
personal problems.


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## thinkricky (Jan 25, 2012)

naptime said:
			
		

> i have a knack for falling asleep anywhere, under any light or noise conditions, and it literally only takes me moments..




Please don't drive anywhere. Stick to plane rides. 

Lol that's incredible. I read through the whole thing because it was so interesting. Extremely funny.


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## pgriz (Jan 25, 2012)

Hey naptime, have you considered giving lessons to insomniacs?  

Great story, by the way.  :thumbup:


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## jaicatalano (Jan 25, 2012)

What bother me is that he needs to borrow $500 and sacrifice $1000. That sounds a bit odd. And out of the entire world he only has your sister to get money from?  HMMM... I'm from NYC so I am joining the skeptics on this one.


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## MLeeK (Jan 25, 2012)

I don't have enough of a feeling for the relationship  between the sister and the photog to judge. 
I tend to want to believe it-which isn't really like me. I'm a skeptic.


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## naptime (Jan 25, 2012)

he's not a big booming photographer with business tearing his doors down. 

to my understanding he's just gotten started this year. Runs photographer as a side business while paying his way through his senior year of college. 

why the slaps in the face because the guy isn't wildly successful and world famous with mountains of cash?

I also would never bring my customers into my financial issues, I agree with you all there.

but to point fingers at the guy because he isn't rolling in cash.., really?


and yes, there are others he could have turned to. He turned to my sister because they already were booked, so he offered her the deal FIRST.... You know that had you read my other post.


it's too bad there are so many skeptical and judgemental people. :-(


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## MLeeK (Jan 25, 2012)

The thing is, as a professional wedding photographer you should have either cash on hand or a credit card with enough on it to purchase a FULL, basic camera setup should something happen on a shoot. That's why they are balking at you on this one. If it were such a great deal I'd tap into my emergency fund and repay it on the day when I got paid for that wedding.


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## naptime (Jan 25, 2012)

MLeeK said:


> The thing is, as a professional wedding photographer you should have either cash on hand or a credit card with enough on it to purchase a FULL, basic camera setup should something happen on a shoot. That's why they are balking at you on this one. If it were such a great deal I'd tap into my emergency fund and repay it on the day when I got paid for that wedding.



and i would agree with that. but not everyone is in those shoes.

my point is.. i posted a couple paragraphs about this particular situation and all of a sudden everyone is pointing fingers at the guy saying his business sucks because he doesnt have a thousand dollars cash on hand.  no one here knows the rest of his situation. or all the details of why he called my sister instead of someone else, or why he didnt have the cash on hand, or what his business is like, or how much he has in the bank etc... but everyone wants to make their assumptions.

it honestly makes no differance to me what anyone thinks of the guy or his business. i don't know him. i've seen his photos. but i've never met him. your opinion of him has no bearing on me whatsoever.

but i really, REALLY, hate when people read a paragraph or two and then make judgements on people and how or what they should be doing.

or comments like:  it's not like a thousand dollars is a lot of money...

tell that to the millions of homeless people. 

it pisses me off when people get on a high horse and make rude comments like that because they have money.



i'll step away from this conversation now.. i shared a story, because i found it a little funny that the guy was desperate enough to do this, and my sister just happened to luck out on it.  but i don't care to sit here and judge other people or listen to the be judge.  sorry, not my style.


oh and crollo.. that's my sister.. go to hell.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Jan 25, 2012)

It wouldn't have anything to do with your thread title. Would it?

But, you've been here long enough to know how this forum works. 

Hey, if this method of doing business works for him, super!
Don't judge us because, as business owners, we find that in very poor taste.
Don't judge us because we DO use loans and lines of credit to buy equipment.
It's business, and that's how it works.
There are smart ways to use credit. 

I could never bring myself to make deals with a customer, to buy equipment. It sends a message. Not a good one.
I also disagree with your comment about not telling your customers you are too busy. I do it all the time.
It gives me leverage. When they beg, I can charge more to accept the job. When they want rush jobs, I charge more.
Supply and demand pricing applies to more than just goods. It applies to time as well.
I've also built my business from taking every **** job that came in, to the point that I can be selective. I know what it's like to start with nothing.

So please don't judge us because our business morals go against what this struggling entrepreneur is doing.


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## MLeeK (Jan 26, 2012)

naptime said:


> MLeeK said:
> 
> 
> > The thing is, as a professional wedding photographer you should have either cash on hand or a credit card with enough on it to purchase a FULL, basic camera setup should something happen on a shoot. That's why they are balking at you on this one. If it were such a great deal I'd tap into my emergency fund and repay it on the day when I got paid for that wedding.
> ...




But didn't you just post here and expect to get opinions from us? You post the story-you get our thoughts on it. Kinda how it works around here, KWIM?


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## naptime (Jan 26, 2012)

you are correct.

i posted a story regarding him being desperate enough to sahve a grand off a clients bill for 500 today.

i didn't expect comments referring to him as a thief.

and i certainly didnt expect comments about him having sex with my sister.

that's a far stretch even for this forum. 



but, the comments about him.... hmmmmm... not sure why that upset me so much.. i don't even know the guy. and you're right, i did post the story, laughing at him myself.


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## maaatter (Jan 26, 2012)

I'm not going to sit here and judge a man by a few paragraphs, but yes, it does sound crazy and sketchy some would say. 

But in the end, your sister got her wedding cheaper, he got his lens, and all of you have an off the wall story to tell.


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