# I was asked to shoot a wedding.



## tevo

A girl I used to go to school with approached me yesterday asking if I shot events, namely weddings. I said usually not weddings. She said her uncle was getting married on the 16th (a week from now) , and it was to be a "super backyard" wedding, consisting of a maximum of 30 people. I don't know whether I should take this on, as I have really only shot one event before. If I did, I wouldn't charge (I'd accept a tip upon delivery of the photos, like last time). I am in need of advice. What questions should I be asking about the wedding? What shots should I plan on? Any help would be appreciated. If I can't go into this confidently I'll respectfully decline.


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## wyogirl

ok, here is how I look at it.  Someone who hasn't contacted a photographer until a week from the big day can't have super high expectations.  I looked at your photostream.  Your indoor sport pics lead me to believe that you have a good idea of how to shoot in low light situations.  I have to believe that this is just a low key kind of wedding so if it were me, I'd do it most likely.  Just be up front and honest about your experience with the couple and go from there.  Like you said, you aren't going to take money before hand so they get no guarantees.  But I think that the couple having some kind of photographer (you) over no photographer is better.


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## tevo

wyogirl said:


> ok, here is how I look at it.  Someone who hasn't contacted a photographer until a week from the big day can't have super high expectations.  I looked at your photostream.  Your indoor sport pics lead me to believe that you have a good idea of how to shoot in low light situations.  I have to believe that this is just a low key kind of wedding so if it were me, I'd do it most likely.  Just be up front and honest about your experience with the couple and go from there.  Like you said, you aren't going to take money before hand so they get no guarantees.  But I think that the couple having some kind of photographer (you) over no photographer is better.



Good point. I'm fully confident in my technical ability to shoot and deal with light, but the logistics of the event as well as what shots are valuable are foreign to me.


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## wyogirl

You are going to want to talk to the couple about the event logistics and see what kind of shots they want.  More than likely, they have no idea what they want or they would have put more thought into it.  Once you get a schedule for the day's events, you can plan the photography.  You will want some of the bride before hand most likely, if time allows.  Obviously you will want the couple taking vows, cutting cake, dancing etc.  But there may be some family shots that the couple would like.  Just have to ask.  I know this sounds so amateur,  but look at what other wedding photographers are putting on their websites for ideas.  

It would be different if this event were planned 2 years in advance with you taking a huge payday and such, but it sounds to me like (no offence) that photography was a last minute consideration that isn't all that important to the couple.


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## gsgary

I will give you a tip don't eat yellow snow

Sent from my GT-I9100P using Tapatalk 2


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## tevo

gsgary said:


> I will give you a tip don't eat yellow snow
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9100P using Tapatalk 2



I was trying to find some deep meaning in this, and have so far been unable to. Elaborate?


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## tevo

wyogirl said:


> You are going to want to talk to the couple about the event logistics and see what kind of shots they want.  More than likely, they have no idea what they want or they would have put more thought into it.  Once you get a schedule for the day's events, you can plan the photography.  You will want some of the bride before hand most likely, if time allows.  Obviously you will want the couple taking vows, cutting cake, dancing etc.  But there may be some family shots that the couple would like.  Just have to ask.  I know this sounds so amateur,  but look at what other wedding photographers are putting on their websites for ideas.
> 
> It would be different if this event were planned 2 years in advance with you taking a huge payday and such, but it sounds to me like (no offence) that photography was a last minute consideration that isn't all that important to the couple.



Okay. I'm erring on the side of accepting this. I will definitely talk to the couple about their expectations, and get a look at the venue ahead of time to get a feel for the light.


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## pixmedic

it isn't like you are new to photography, or don't have the skills or equipment to do this. 

make sure to get formal portraits of the bride/groom and wedding party. 
aside from that, just try and get the usual important pics. 
the vows, the ring exchange, the kiss, maybe a few with the officiant talking to them....
pics of the bride and her dad are usually a good one too, if possible. 
basically, if it LOOKS like it might be important, get a picture of it.


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## TheFantasticG

Do it for free so you can get drunk at the bar during the reception and have fun.


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## Robin_Usagani

No guts no glory.


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## tevo

pixmedic said:


> it isn't like you are new to photography, or don't have the skills or equipment to do this.
> 
> make sure to get formal portraits of the bride/groom and wedding party.
> aside from that, just try and get the usual important pics.
> the vows, the ring exchange, the kiss, maybe a few with the officiant talking to them....
> pics of the bride and her dad are usually a good one too, if possible.
> basically, if it LOOKS like it might be important, get a picture of it.



Very true. Would 75-100 pictures be a reasonable return?


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## tevo

TheFantasticG said:


> Do it for free so you can get drunk at the bar during the reception and have fun.



Maybe if I was 21, and I drank


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## tevo

Robin_Usagani said:


> No guts no glory.



I noticed in this album you included around 40 photos. Were those the only ones you delivered to the clients? I'm trying to get a handle on what a reasonable return is.


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## pixmedic

tevo said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> 
> it isn't like you are new to photography, or don't have the skills or equipment to do this.
> 
> make sure to get formal portraits of the bride/groom and wedding party.
> aside from that, just try and get the usual important pics.
> the vows, the ring exchange, the kiss, maybe a few with the officiant talking to them....
> pics of the bride and her dad are usually a good one too, if possible.
> basically, if it LOOKS like it might be important, get a picture of it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very true. Would 75-100 pictures be a reasonable return?
Click to expand...


for 3-4 hours?
yea. around 100 pictures would be fine as a final amount. 
theres only so many ways to take different pictures of the same thing. 
after a while, you are just duplication shots.


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## tevo

pixmedic said:


> tevo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> 
> it isn't like you are new to photography, or don't have the skills or equipment to do this.
> 
> make sure to get formal portraits of the bride/groom and wedding party.
> aside from that, just try and get the usual important pics.
> the vows, the ring exchange, the kiss, maybe a few with the officiant talking to them....
> pics of the bride and her dad are usually a good one too, if possible.
> basically, if it LOOKS like it might be important, get a picture of it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very true. Would 75-100 pictures be a reasonable return?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> for 3-4 hours?
> yea. around 100 pictures would be fine as a final amount.
> theres only so many ways to take different pictures of the same thing.
> after a while, you are just duplication shots.
Click to expand...


Okay. Being that it is a small wedding, would 40-50 suffice? I would hope to have more than that, but I can pre plan around that many shots and be able to count on getting them with some degree of certainty.


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## pixmedic

tevo said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tevo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very true. Would 75-100 pictures be a reasonable return?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> for 3-4 hours?
> yea. around 100 pictures would be fine as a final amount.
> theres only so many ways to take different pictures of the same thing.
> after a while, you are just duplication shots.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Okay. Being that it is a small wedding, would 40-50 suffice? I would hope to have more than that, but I can pre plan around that many shots and be able to count on getting them with some degree of certainty.
Click to expand...


In all honesty, I think if you got around 50 keepers it would be fine. like i said, you can only take the same pictures so many times. 
and with only 30 people there, im guessing it isnt a large wedding party either so you dont have a boatload of people to individually work with.


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## kathyt

I would say 100-150 images. Are you doing the getting ready, formals, family, reception, and all that good stuff too? You really need to find out all of the details and how long you will be shooting. I always say about 40-50 images per hour of shooting time is about right.


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## Robin_Usagani

I average 80 photos an hour.


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## kathyt

Robin_Usagani said:


> I average 80 photos an hour.


That is how many you tell the client you will give them per hour? Or is that the average you shoot per hour?


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## pixmedic

Robin_Usagani said:


> I average 80 photos an hour.



I think Tevo was talking about end product, not actual per hour shot totals.


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## tevo

pixmedic said:


> I think Tevo was talking about end product, not actual per hour shot totals.



Exactly.


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## pixmedic

I think between this being a very small wedding, and Tevo not being a wedding photographer who has his workflow streamlined for that sort of work, a little less than optimal pics per/hr will probably be just fine. i am sure that the amount of pictures he produces will matter much less than the fact that they got wedding pictures at all.


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## Robin_Usagani

That is how many photos I have at the end.  10 hour wedding = 800+ photos.


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## tevo

Robin_Usagani said:


> That is how many photos I have at the end.  10 hour wedding = 800+ photos.



Okay, I'll shoot a football game and end up with 800 photos as well. But the number of keepers I have is significantly less than that, maybe 100-150. What I'm asking is how many do you deliver to the client?


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## Steve5D

They hit you up a week before the wedding?

I see no reason, whatsoever, to do it for free...


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## Robin_Usagani

tevo said:


> Robin_Usagani said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is how many photos I have at the end.  10 hour wedding = 800+ photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, I'll shoot a football game and end up with 800 photos as well. But the number of keepers I have is significantly less than that, maybe 100-150. What I'm asking is how many do you deliver to the client?
Click to expand...


Thats what I deliver.  But I use 2nd photographer too.


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## cbarnard7

Robin_Usagani said:


> tevo said:
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> Robin_Usagani said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is how many photos I have at the end. 10 hour wedding = 800+ photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, I'll shoot a football game and end up with 800 photos as well. But the number of keepers I have is significantly less than that, maybe 100-150. What I'm asking is how many do you deliver to the client?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thats what I deliver. But I use 2nd photographer too.
Click to expand...


Good Lord that seems like a lot!


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## pixmedic

cbarnard7 said:


> Robin_Usagani said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tevo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, I'll shoot a football game and end up with 800 photos as well. But the number of keepers I have is significantly less than that, maybe 100-150. What I'm asking is how many do you deliver to the client?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thats what I deliver. But I use 2nd photographer too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good Lord that seems like a lot!
Click to expand...


its different when you are shooting a wedding though. you are getting lots of the same shots at different angles and heights. often you are taking several of literally the same shot just in case someone blinked or moved or something. it isnt difficult at all to rack up a TON of photos at a wedding.


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## gsgary

tevo said:


> Robin_Usagani said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is how many photos I have at the end.  10 hour wedding = 800+ photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, I'll shoot a football game and end up with 800 photos as well. But the number of keepers I have is significantly less than that, maybe 100-150. What I'm asking is how many do you deliver to the client?
Click to expand...


150 keepers from 800 thats not good

Sent from my GT-I9100P using Tapatalk 2


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## wyogirl

gsgary said:


> tevo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Robin_Usagani said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is how many photos I have at the end.  10 hour wedding = 800+ photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, I'll shoot a football game and end up with 800 photos as well. But the number of keepers I have is significantly less than that, maybe 100-150. What I'm asking is how many do you deliver to the client?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 150 keepers from 800 thats not good
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9100P using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...

For a sports event, that's a high yield.  Things are moving fast and people move into or out of a shot fast.  That's why you keep shooting.


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## gsgary

wyogirl said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tevo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, I'll shoot a football game and end up with 800 photos as well. But the number of keepers I have is significantly less than that, maybe 100-150. What I'm asking is how many do you deliver to the client?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 150 keepers from 800 thats not good
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9100P using Tapatalk 2
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For a sports event, that's a high yield.  Things are moving fast and people move into or out of a shot fast.  That's why you keep shooting.
Click to expand...


No its not , i shot sports and printed on site and that is not good enough

Sent from my GT-I9100P using Tapatalk 2


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## TheFantasticG

w are thing





tevo said:


> TheFantasticG said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do it for free so you can get drunk at the bar during the reception and have fun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe if I was 21, and I drank
Click to expand...


Ha! I certainly didn't wait for 21 to start drinking! If I can die for my country at 18 I could take a swig for myself.


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## tevo

wyogirl said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tevo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, I'll shoot a football game and end up with 800 photos as well. But the number of keepers I have is significantly less than that, maybe 100-150. What I'm asking is how many do you deliver to the client?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 150 keepers from 800 thats not good
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9100P using Tapatalk 2
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For a sports event, that's a high yield.  Things are moving fast and people move into or out of a shot fast.  That's why you keep shooting.
Click to expand...


Exactly. And if there is one shot I'm after I take advantage of digital and a fast FPS to shoot a 4 or 5 frame burst to get an ideal pose / frame / background.


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## Tee

Tevo- you should totally do it.  Keep in mind the ole "it's just a cozy backyard wedding" will make you stress just as much as a 500 person wedding at a country club.  It's still a rush.  I've done 2 weddings the same way you were approached.  I posted about my first experience here: http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...learned-photographing-wedding-first-time.html It's a little long but you might get a tip or two from it.  Good luck!


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## tevo

Tee said:


> Tevo- you should totally do it.  Keep in mind the ole "it's just a cozy backyard wedding" will make you stress just as much as a 500 person wedding at a country club.  It's still a rush.  I've done 2 weddings the same way you were approached.  I posted about my first experience here: http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/general-shop-talk/304373-what-i-learned-photographing-wedding-first-time.html It's a little long but you might get a tip or two from it.  Good luck!



Thank you very much for the link!

I'm going to arrange a time to talk to the couple today, and visit the venue to get acquainted to lighting / etc.


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## pixmedic

dont forget to post pics afterwards!!


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## tevo

pixmedic said:


> dont forget to post pics afterwards!!



Of the location? Or do you mean after the wedding?


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## bratkinson

At least it's not SNOWING in San Jose like it is in New England!!!

Not knowing any better, I did a couple of freebie weddings for some down and out friends about 8-10 years ago with nothing more than a Canon G5 and an external flash.  Hey, my big brother did both of my weddings with just a viewfinder style 35mm camera!  I basically concentrated on getting the ceremony, some formals of the B&G, wedding party, and family, etc.  I also got some shots of the gifts, and made it a point to get at least one shot of each group at each table during the reception.


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## pixmedic

tevo said:


> pixmedic said:
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> 
> 
> dont forget to post pics afterwards!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of the location? Or do you mean after the wedding?
Click to expand...


Both


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## Steve5D

And you're not going to be paid why?


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## tevo

Steve5D said:


> And you're not going to be paid why?



I would prefer to accept a tip rather than charge as it is my first time shooting an event like this. It takes off some of the professional pressure.


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## pixmedic

tevo said:


> Steve5D said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you're not going to be paid why?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would prefer to accept a tip rather than charge as it is my first time shooting an event like this. It takes off some of the professional pressure.
Click to expand...


It shouldn't.  You should shoot a free wedding with the same effort and personal expectations as you would a $4000 wedding. If the client's expect less of you, thats mostly irrelevant. You should expect the best of yourself.


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## Derrel

Steve5D said:


> And you're not going to be paid why?



Exactly. The heck with the "tip"...what if they decide to stiff you? What if they give you like $20 or $50? Even though you are young and this will be your first wedding, I think this gig is worth at LEAST $150...at the BARE-BONES, stripped-down, rock-bottom, cheapskate client min-i-mum. I don't care if the backyard wedding is the two people being married by a traveling rent-an-officiant and then the wedding party roasting weenies and marshmallows on sticks, while gathered around a Hibachi propped up on a pile of old cinder blocks.

Get some $$$ for this gig...you're bringing thousands of dollars' worth of photo gear to this gig, and knowing how good the light is in Southern California (compared to much of North America) you ought to be able to produce decent pictures.

I really think they owe you something that has a single digit number and the words "and fifty dollars" after it... as in two hundred AND FIFTY or three hundred and FIFTY dollars. Not a "tip", but an actual "payment of money".


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## tevo

pixmedic said:


> tevo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steve5D said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you're not going to be paid why?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would prefer to accept a tip rather than charge as it is my first time shooting an event like this. It takes off some of the professional pressure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It shouldn't.  You should shoot a free wedding with the same effort and personal expectations as you would a $4000 wedding. If the client's expect less of you, thats mostly irrelevant. You should expect the best of yourself.
Click to expand...




Derrel said:


> Steve5D said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you're not going to be paid why?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly. The heck with the "tip"...what if they decide to stiff you? What if they give you like $20 or $50? Even though you are young and this will be your first wedding, I think this gig is worth at LEAST $150...at the BARE-BONES, stripped-down, rock-bottom, cheapskate client min-i-mum. I don't care if the backyard wedding is the two people being married by a traveling rent-an-officiant and then the wedding party roasting weenies and marshmallows on sticks, while gathered around a Hibachi propped up on a pile of old cinder blocks.
> 
> Get some $$$ for this gig...you're bringing thousands of dollars' worth of photo gear to this gig, and knowing how good the light is in Southern California (compared to much of North America) you ought to be able to produce decent pictures.
> 
> I really think they owe you something that has a single digit number and the words "and fifty dollars" after it... as in two hundred AND FIFTY or three hundred and FIFTY dollars. Not a "tip", but an actual "payment of money".
Click to expand...



In that case, what could go terribly wrong that would make me undeserving of the money I am asking? I am confident in my ability to photograph, I am just in the process of learning what makes good wedding photos. And in all honesty, I need the money.


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## tevo

Another question: Do I need some form of contract with the couple? I.e a print release for the files or a binding document of some sort..? Errors & Omissions insurance?


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## Derrel

tevo said:
			
		

> And in all honesty, *I need the money*.



So, convey to these folks that you need to be payed for your photographic services. You need to be payed a set fee for a pre-determined number of hours, or a certain "level of coverage". I would talk to your parents about this issue, just to see what they have to tell you about shooting photos of weddings for pay,and to get a 2nd and 3rd opinion from people whom you know personally.

You can DO THIS event. It's a backyard wedding! It's all scheduled out....you know exactly what's gonna happen and in what order. It's a bunch of people playing dress-up, and knowing full well that they will be photographed.


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## IByte

Robin_Usagani said:


> No guts no glory.



Lol I can picture Robin with a suit, kevlar, and his two camera bodies strapped to his vest.


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## IByte

tevo said:


> Another question: Do I need some form of contract with the couple? I.e a print release for the files or a binding document of some sort..? Errors & Omissions insurance?



Yes, yes, yes.  At least get your CODB.


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## vintagesnaps

I wondered if the friend wants photos of her uncle's wedding more than the uncle cares about having the wedding photographed (or arrangements would have been made ahead of time). 

I don't think I'd want to be what amounts to potentially coming across as 'a wedding photographer' for a day, having no experience doing an event much less a wedding; that could make for expectations that they'll be getting the type photos that would be expected from an established professional wedding photographer. 

I would have declined, but at this point it might be best to offer to just 'take some pictures' for the friend, and leave it at that. (And if she wants to give you a tip that would be up to the you and the friend.) I'd offer to provide a certain number of pictures of the ceremony and maybe some of the reception and that would be about it (unless this were a best friend or immediate family member, or circumstances that gave me a good reason to do this).

edit - OK a lot changed since I got back on here to post... Now you're getting into making money and yes, there are a lot of things that you need to have covered - contract, insurance, etc. Are they going to pay a deposit up front? Are you going to set up equipment? if someone trips over it and gets injured are you covered? You can look at ASMP's site as well as others for info. about business aspects of photography but I think there's a lot to read thru to prepare for something that's happening in 3-4 days...


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## tevo

Derrel said:


> tevo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And in all honesty, I need the money.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, convey to these folks that you need to be payed for your photographic services. You need to be payed a set fee for a pre-determined number of hours, or a certain "level of coverage". I would talk to your parents about this issue, just to see what they have to tell you about shooting photos of weddings for pay,and to get a 2nd and 3rd opinion from people whom you know personally.
> 
> You can DO THIS event. It's a backyard wedding! *It's all scheduled out....you know exactly what's gonna happen and in what order*. It's a bunch of people playing dress-up, and knowing full well that they will be photographed.
Click to expand...


This is presently my issue. I have been unable to get in contact with the groom, and have no idea what the itinerary of the wedding is / what the location looks like / what they are expecting. If I can't meet with them before Thursday then I will have to decline this engagement.

From what I have gathered, weddings go like this. Please fix any errors!


Ushers hand out programs to people showing up.
Guest seated.
Groom walks to alter. 
Bridesmaids and groomsmen walk in
Grandparents, mother, siblings and are seated after 
Flower girls and Ring bearer walk down the aisle. 
Bride walks down the aisle, escorted by father
Father is seated in front row by mother. 
Maid of honor takes bride's bouquet. 
Priest speaks, vows are said, priest speaks. 
The Kiss
Maid of honor hands bouquet to bride. 
Bride and groom walk back down the aisle. 
People get up and leave
Family sticks around for pictures. 
All other guests head to reception. 
Reception:
Bride and Groom are announced
First Dance 
Father/daughter dance 
Mother/Groom dance
Dinner 
Cutting of the cake
Toast
Serve cake 
Toss bouquet
Dance
Everyone gets drunk and then leaves

This is based off of a few google search results. I have no recollection of the one wedding I went to when I was 4, so I really have no first hand experience with weddings.


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## tevo

IByte said:


> tevo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another question: Do I need some form of contract with the couple? I.e a print release for the files or a binding document of some sort..? Errors & Omissions insurance?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, yes, yes.  At least get your CODB.
Click to expand...


Cost of doing business?


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## ronlane

I haven't read all of this post and have a head ache. I'm pretty sure that I made a GREAT decision to point people/friends in another direction for their wedding photos.


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## Steve5D

tevo said:


> Steve5D said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you're not going to be paid why?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would prefer to accept a tip rather than charge as it is my first time shooting an event like this. It takes off some of the professional pressure.
Click to expand...


No, it doesn't.

Are you planning to do a half assed job because you're not being paid? I'll guess that you're not. You should approach it as professionally as possible, regardless if you're getting a "tip" of $20.00 (which, prepare yourself, could happen) or paid a fee of $5,000.00. If you're not going to do it as professionally as possible, in all aspects, regardless of the pay, walk away. Don't do it.

When I shot my first wedding, I was paid for it. I had exactly no experience shooting weddings. None. Nada. Zip. But I got paid for it, and so should you...


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## tevo

Steve5D said:


> tevo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steve5D said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you're not going to be paid why?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would prefer to accept a tip rather than charge as it is my first time shooting an event like this. It takes off some of the professional pressure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, it doesn't.
> 
> Are you planning to do a half assed job because you're not being paid? I'll guess that you're not. You should approach it as professionally as possible, regardless if you're getting a "tip" of $20.00 (which, prepare yourself, could happen) or paid a fee of $5,000.00. If you're not going to do it as professionally as possible, in all aspects, regardless of the pay, walk away. Don't do it.
> 
> When I shot my first wedding, I was paid for it. I had exactly no experience shooting weddings. None. Nada. Zip. But I got paid for it, and so should you...
Click to expand...


I never meant to imply that I was going to do a half assed job. I just feel that I am running the risk of screwing up something and charging money for that screwup. However, the more I look at the logistics of this, I think it would be reasonable to charge. I pride myself in dealing with any non-colloquial engagement in a professional manner, especially business relations.


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## vintagesnaps

Is this the uncle's first marriage? It's in someone's back yard, they may not be doing all the traditional steps of a wedding that you googled. Are you an invited guest that you can just take some pictures for your friend? I agree with Ron, this is turning into a headache already...


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## Steve5D

tevo said:


> This is presently my issue. I have been unable to get in contact with the groom, and have no idea what the itinerary of the wedding is / what the location looks like / what they are expecting. If I can't meet with them before Thursday then I will have to decline this engagement.



I'd have declined already.

Obviously they're not all too worried about photos if they waited a week prior to the big day to find someone. Call whoever it is you have the phone number for and leave the following message:

"I'm really looking forward to shooting your wedding on Saturday. However, I need to see the location and meet with you prior to that day. Please contact me by 6:00pm Wednesday. If I don't hear from you, I'll assume you've made other arrangements. Thanks again, and congratulations!"

Then, at 6:01pm on Wednesday, move on...


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## leeroix

I used to think about not getting paid as I gain experience too. That changed quickly. It will take up an enormous amount of your time on that day. AND the subsequent days editing. A LOT OF TIME. (because you want to do a good job right?) I cant overstate that. The only thing I would shoot for free now is maybe my girlfriend or my dog or maybe something for charity. Im with everyone else here. Steve5D and Derrel nailed it.


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## tevo

Update:

Just got off the phone with the groom's sister who is planning the wedding. The ceremony starts at 10am, the reception is at 1pm. They expect 7-10 people to attend the ceremony, with 20-30 to attend the reception. I'm expecting a 6 hour gig including getting to the house early to photograph the bride/groom getting ready. Going to the location tomorrow to get a feel for the light, and to get a rough itinerary from the wedding planner. She told me that 50-75 digital pictures (with a print release) was a good return, including some posed shots and pictures of the decorations (which I had planned on)I told her ballpark I would charge around $400 for the whole event.


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## Steve5D

There ya' go.

It's not a ton of money, but it's respectable for what seems to be a lower-cost wedding.

Good on ya'.

Now, my only question is how long is the ceremony? Three hours between the start of the ceremony and the start of the reception seems like a long time.

Meh, no biggie. Go forth, shoot and make money...


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## tevo

Steve5D said:


> There ya' go.
> 
> It's not a ton of money, but it's respectable for what seems to be a lower-cost wedding.
> 
> Good on ya'.
> 
> Now, my only question is how long is the ceremony? Three hours between the start of the ceremony and the start of the reception seems like a long time.
> 
> Meh, no biggie. Go forth, shoot and make money...



The ceremony and the reception are at two different locations, so I imagine there is an hour or so travel window maybe. I asked the planner to give me a rough itinerary of the events / proceedings tomorrow, so I will hopefully learn the answer to that question.


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## vintagesnaps

They have a wedding planner, and made no arrangements for a photographer?? I'm mystified with this situation. If they could afford a planner then I don't know why they wouldn't have budgeted for a photographer well ahead of time. 

The uncle's sister and niece seem to be running the show, doesn't seem clear where the bride and groom fit into the planning (whose backyard is this in? do they even want a photographer there?). I'd just be clear on terms and payment etc.


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## IByte

tevo said:


> Cost of doing business?



Precisely my friend


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## tevo

vintagesnaps said:


> They have a wedding planner, and made no arrangements for a photographer?? I'm mystified with this situation. If they could afford a planner then I don't know why they wouldn't have budgeted for a photographer well ahead of time.
> 
> The uncle's sister and niece seem to be running the show, doesn't seem clear where the bride and groom fit into the planning (whose backyard is this in? do they even want a photographer there?). I'd just be clear on terms and payment etc.



The planner is the groom's sister. I just say planner because she is organizing the event / doing all the booking / etc

Edit: The wedding is being held at the groom (uncle) 's house. He wanted a photographer, but he is leaving the planning of the wedding up to his sister.


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## tevo

IByte said:


> tevo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cost of doing business?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Precisely my friend
Click to expand...


Elaborate please?


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## leeroix

So if you figure, for shooting the event only... -400 divided by (im assuming about 8 total hours - getting ready shots? ceremony itself? travel? formals? reception?) =50 per hour. (Cheap) and that does not include the HOURS and HOURS you will spend editing and organizing the photos after...


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## vintagesnaps

So this seems to be fairly informal then, and the women in the family have taken over... (I suppose they're the ones who want to have all this and the uncle/groom is leaving it up to them). I can't help but shake my head at this point; obviously there's no way to know the circumstances and plenty of people are on tight budgets, etc. etc., it just makes me think it seems to be getting thrown together last minute so I hope it all works out.

This seems like a lot of photos and a lot of work (including the time spent taking pictures of them getting ready, going from one location to another, etc.) for what seems like a small informal wedding and reception. If you don't know the family I'd be clear on what their expectations are.


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## IByte

tevo said:


> Elaborate please?



Basically try to recoup of:

How much gas it takes you to/from wedding area.

Time and labor spent prepping your equipment. 

Bandwidth unfortunately is not free .

Time 

And IMHO business and good friends sometimes leads to disaster.


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## IByte

leeroix said:


> So if you figure, for shooting the event only... -400 divided by (im assuming about 8 total hours - getting ready shots? ceremony itself? travel? formals? reception?) =50 per hour. (Cheap) and that does not include the HOURS and HOURS you will spend editing and organizing the photos after...



^^This but again adjust COBD to YOUR specifications.


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## tevo

vintagesnaps said:


> So this seems to be fairly informal then, and the women in the family have taken over... (I suppose they're the ones who want to have all this and the uncle/groom is leaving it up to them). I can't help but shake my head at this point; obviously there's no way to know the circumstances and plenty of people are on tight budgets, etc. etc., it just makes me think it seems to be getting thrown together last minute so I hope it all works out.
> 
> This seems like a lot of photos and a lot of work (including the time spent taking pictures of them getting ready, going from one location to another, etc.) for what seems like a small informal wedding and reception. If you don't know the family I'd be clear on what their expectations are.



I am meeting with the person planning the wedding tomorrow to clarify their expectations.


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## tevo

IByte said:


> tevo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Elaborate please?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Basically try to recoup of:
> 
> How much gas it takes you to/from wedding area.
> 
> Time and labor spent prepping your equipment.
> 
> Bandwidth unfortunately is not free .
> 
> Time
> 
> And IMHO business and good friends sometimes leads to disaster.
Click to expand...


Thankfully I am more an acquaintance with the girl who approached me, so this is strictly business. Thanks for the cost calculating tip!


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## IByte

tevo said:


> Thankfully I am more an acquaintance with the girl who approached me, so this is strictly business. Thanks for the cost calculating tip!



Lol np but I think leeroix had a better formula.


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## tevo

leeroix said:


> So if you figure, for shooting the event only... -400 divided by (im assuming about 8 total hours - getting ready shots? ceremony itself? travel? formals? reception?) =50 per hour. (Cheap) and that does not include the HOURS and HOURS you will spend editing and organizing the photos after...



At this point, I'm testing the water with weddings and seeing what I can make of it.


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## Derrel

tevo said:


> vintagesnaps said:
> 
> 
> 
> They have a wedding planner, and made no arrangements for a photographer?? I'm mystified with this situation. If they could afford a planner then I don't know why they wouldn't have budgeted for a photographer well ahead of time.
> 
> The uncle's sister and niece seem to be running the show, doesn't seem clear where the bride and groom fit into the planning (whose backyard is this in? do they even want a photographer there?). I'd just be clear on terms and payment etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The planner is the groom's sister. I just say planner because she is organizing the event / doing all the booking / etc
> 
> Edit: The wedding is being held at the groom (uncle) 's house. He wanted a photographer, but he is leaving the planning of the wedding up to his sister.
Click to expand...


There's an old word for what this type of poorly-planned event can or might turn out to be on the day of the event, Tevo...and that word pre-dates your birth by at least 20 years...events with this type of scattershot, he-said-HE was-gonna! vs. she-said-SHE-was-gonna! planning often turn out to be what we older folks used to call, in common parlance, a cluster-**** (insert crude word for copulation).


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## tevo

Derrel said:


> tevo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vintagesnaps said:
> 
> 
> 
> They have a wedding planner, and made no arrangements for a photographer?? I'm mystified with this situation. If they could afford a planner then I don't know why they wouldn't have budgeted for a photographer well ahead of time.
> 
> The uncle's sister and niece seem to be running the show, doesn't seem clear where the bride and groom fit into the planning (whose backyard is this in? do they even want a photographer there?). I'd just be clear on terms and payment etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The planner is the groom's sister. I just say planner because she is organizing the event / doing all the booking / etc
> 
> Edit: The wedding is being held at the groom (uncle) 's house. He wanted a photographer, but he is leaving the planning of the wedding up to his sister.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There's an old word for what this type of poorly-planned event can or might turn out to be on the day of the event, Tevo...and that word pre-dates your birth by at least 20 years...events with this type of scattershot, he-said-HE was-gonna! vs. she-said-SHE-was-gonna! planning often turn out to be what we older folks used to call, in common parlance, a cluster-**** (insert crude word for copulation).
Click to expand...


I don't think it's as poorly planned as it seems. Basically, the groom was supposed to call me yesterday, but he is a procrastinator. I pushed hard, and learned that his sister was planning the wedding and that I should talk to her. As soon as I learned that I was able to contact her right away and schedule a time tomorrow to meet and discuss the details / visit the location. From what I can tell it is truly a low key, family wedding and shouldn't be too hard to handle. A friend of mine wants to get into shooting weddings, so she is coming along with me to help out. She doesn't want any money from it, just the experience.


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## jowensphoto

Good luck. My first solo wedding was a backyard gig for a cousin-in-law. Good way to get your feet wet! Let us know how it goes


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## gsgary

vintagesnaps said:


> They have a wedding planner, and made no arrangements for a photographer?? I'm mystified with this situation. If they could afford a planner then I don't know why they wouldn't have budgeted for a photographer well ahead of time.
> 
> The uncle's sister and niece seem to be running the show, doesn't seem clear where the bride and groom fit into the planning (whose backyard is this in? do they even want a photographer there?). I'd just be clear on terms and payment etc.




If they are short of money why are they using a wedding planner


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## gsgary

I would walk away this is going to turn into a nightmare


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## Steve5D

gsgary said:


> If they are short of money why are they using a wedding planner




Already addressed:



tevo said:


> The planner is the groom's sister. I just say  planner because she is organizing the event...


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## tevo

Okay, I just met with the planner (sister) and got my eyes on the house. The background is mostly dominated by a pool but there is plenty of room to move around, and more than enough to accommodate 7-10 people. The wedding is not at all traditional, and very casual. Basically, the plan is to have the guests arrive, assemble outside, the bride will walk out and meet the groom. Ceremony will commence, and then there will be some drinks and hors d'oeuvres. After that, the guests will go to a country club that is nearby for the reception. From the sounds of it, the ceremony itself is SUPER low key with very few if any decorations, formalities, or otherwise. The reception will be more reminiscent of a wedding, but more of a lunch. No dancing apparently. The groom seems to be leaving the planning entirely up to his sister, as he wasn't even present during the meeting I had with his sister today. I would like to try and meet with him and the bride in the same room to get to know them, but I think this is going to end up being a basic small event coverage more than a wedding. I plan on doing some posed shots after the ceremony and taking candids everywhere else.


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## jowensphoto

Maybe offer a 30 minute engagement session? I like to get a feel for how they respond to being in front of a camera and taking a bit of direction.


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## vintagesnaps

I wonder if the family wants someone taking pictures more than the bride and groom do; candids might be about it because I wonder if they'll want to do much in the way of formal posed shots. As long as you can get some photos that the family will enjoy I suppose that's what matters. (But too bad you aren't old enough to partake of a drink after, I think I'd be ready for one! but really it probably will go fine.) 

More seriously, if you aspire to become a professional photographer this would probably be a good time to start looking into pro resources and develop a plan of how to proceed from here so you can be successful. Earlier in the thread there was some discussion of sports/events and I'd expect to work toward a higher rate of keepers than what was suggested here; I've been a photographer for a long time and have never figured out my percentage but most of my pictures are at least usable, it takes time and practice I think to get good at being able to frame and compose images quickly while events are happening. Especially with what's happening in photojournalism now it will probably be a challenge to be able to work in that field.


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## tevo

I arranged a 1 hour session later today around golden hour to take some engagement type photos of the couple/see how they react in front of the camera. Tips?


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## ronlane

tevo said:


> I arranged a 1 hour session later today around golden hour to take some engagement type photos of the couple/see how they react in front of the camera. Tips?



Don't take wooden nickels as payment 
No train track photos, that's too dangerous.
Make it about her, because the groom is just there as a prop. (It's all about the bride.)
*Have fun*, you'll do fine.

Of course the final and most important one is this. Ignore everything I said except for the bold part.


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## tevo

ronlane said:


> tevo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I arranged a 1 hour session later today around golden hour to take some engagement type photos of the couple/see how they react in front of the camera. Tips?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't take wooden nickels as payment
> No train track photos, that's too dangerous.
> Make it about her, because the groom is just there as a prop. (It's all about the bride.)
> *Have fun*, you'll do fine.
> 
> Of course the final and most important one is this. Ignore everything I said except for the bold part.
Click to expand...


Darn, I had this idea where I would have them kiss on the train tracks with a train coming in the background \:


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## ronlane

tevo said:


> ronlane said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tevo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I arranged a 1 hour session later today around golden hour to take some engagement type photos of the couple/see how they react in front of the camera. Tips?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't take wooden nickels as payment
> No train track photos, that's too dangerous.
> Make it about her, because the groom is just there as a prop. (It's all about the bride.)
> *Have fun*, you'll do fine.
> 
> Of course the final and most important one is this. Ignore everything I said except for the bold part.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Darn, I had this idea where I would have them kiss on the train tracks with a train coming in the background \:
Click to expand...


Should be good, it's not at a crossing, right? You want to get the movement of the train for effect. May be a good one to practice your panning on, should give a good blur on them as they get flattened


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## robbins.photo

ronlane said:


> tevo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I arranged a 1 hour session later today around golden hour to take some engagement type photos of the couple/see how they react in front of the camera. Tips?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't take wooden nickels as payment
> No train track photos, that's too dangerous.
> Make it about her, because the groom is just there as a prop. (It's all about the bride.)
> *Have fun*, you'll do fine.
> 
> Of course the final and most important one is this. Ignore everything I said except for the bold part.
Click to expand...


No train track photos.. huh.  Ok, that would have been useful advice to have before.  So how about mustache twirling?  I mean just how Draconian are these rules anyway?

Lol


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## tevo

Loading the photos off my cards now. *suspense*


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## Hochzeitsfotograf

tevo said:


> Loading the photos off my cards now. *suspense*



Just curious, how did everything work out. What was your experience? Are YOU satisfied with the results (probably you haven't shown the photos to the couple yet)? Perhaps you'd like to share a few best-of shots here?


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## jowensphoto

Pics or it didn't happen


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## astroNikon




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## tevo

Exporting now!


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## tevo

jowensphoto said:


> Pics or it didn't happen



OKAY! The full set of photos (minus a few pictures of guests I included just to be thorough) is found here.

The wedding was very far from traditional. It ended up being more like a corporate event / luncheon. The groom NEVER smiled so I had to catch him laughing most of the time. He also wore sunglasses... the entire time. Live and let live I guess. Here are some of my favorites. 

#1



Terry and Celine by theofficialtevo, on Flickr


#2



Terry and Celine by theofficialtevo, on Flickr


#3



Terry and Celine by theofficialtevo, on Flickr


#4



Terry and Celine by theofficialtevo, on Flickr
I'm proud of this one. The wall behind the cake was so ugly... I had to improvise.
#5



Terry and Celine by theofficialtevo, on Flickr


I definitely enjoyed the experience and am going to try and find another low key wedding to shoot- hopefully one with more semblance to a traditional wedding.


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## tevo

And what came out of the pre wedding shoot....

#1



Terry and Celine by theofficialtevo, on Flickr


#2



Terry and Celine by theofficialtevo, on Flickr


#3



Terry and Celine by theofficialtevo, on Flickr


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## Derrel

I knew you could do it! I looked at the whole set. Pretty decent. Congratulations!


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## Rwsphotos

Nicely done Tevo


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## leeroix

Good deal. How long did it take? Are you glad you got paid now?


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## ronlane

Nice set Tevo, congrats on it. What did you learn? Would you do another?


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## kathyt

Good job tevo! I am glad things went well for you.


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## camz

Yeah good job T... no balls no glory!


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## peeteygirl

Wow! I LOVE the ring shot.


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## tevo

Derrel said:


> I knew you could do it! I looked at the whole set. Pretty decent. Congratulations!



Thanks! Next time I'll gun for good 
What could I improve upon?



Rwsphotos said:


> Nicely done Tevo



Thanks!



leeroix said:


> Good deal. How long did it take? Are you glad you got paid now?



I was shooting from 9am to 3pm, with 8 hours give or take of editing. Not too bad, but very glad I got paid.



ronlane said:


> Nice set Tevo, congrats on it. What did you learn? Would you do another?



Thank you. I learned that you really only have one shot at each part of the wedding, so to shoot the hell out of each aspect so you don't miss. In this case, the wedding wasn't too organized so I had to ask a lot of questions as to what was happening and where. Having shot sports events for some years now, I think I have the hang of capturing good candids of people. 

I intend on shooting more weddings.


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## Robin_Usagani

Gj man. 

I personally would have tried to get more posed photos of her by herself and the two of them outside.


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## ImSoQuazy

Very well done


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## tevo

Robin_Usagani said:


> Gj man.
> 
> I personally would have tried to get more posed photos of her by herself and the two of them outside.



Thanks! I will definitely keep that in mind for next time. The groom wasn't very photo friendly, I was unable to get him to smile during any of the posed pictures. I shouldn't have a problem with that going forward.


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## Braineack

I'd say it was a pretty successful job!


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## tevo

Braineack said:


> I'd say it was a pretty successful job!



Thanks!


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## jowensphoto

Good work!


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## tevo

jowensphoto said:


> Good work!



Thank you very much


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## gconnoyer

Very good work. Definitely impressive stuff for being wedding #1


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## tevo

gconnoyer said:


> Very good work. Definitely impressive stuff for being wedding #1



Thanks! I potentially have wedding #2 early next year.


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## shovenose

Hope you had fun. I think that's the most important part  But you did a good job. And you got money... win-win-win situation


----------

