# Future of DX and Buying Lenses



## Centropolis (Jun 6, 2013)

I used to own a D80 with a few lenses.  A few years ago, I sold them all as a package after coming back from a week in Paris and never took it out of my camera bag.  I used my LX5 instead the whole trip.  I then went into M4/3 with a couple of kit lens and a cheap Sigma prime on a GF2 and a E-PL2.

Last week, I started thinking about getting back into DSLR format and bought myself a used D300s because I didn't like the grip felt in my hand on the D7000/D7100.  But now I am looking for lenses.

I've read a few articles on the topic "The Future of DX" and many people think that with the D600, there may not be a D300s replacement to come because the cost of a "D400" will be similar to the D600 and the general public will rather go with FX than DX.  This got me thinking that I am going to avoid buying any DX lenses for the fear of having no newer body to put it on when I want to upgrade in 2 or 3 years.  The D300s is already more than a couple of years old.

Am I crazy?  I am not saying that DX will suddenly go away and all the lenses and bodies will be gone in 3 years.  It's just that I don't see Nikon making a $2,000 DX body anymore.

Or am I thinking too much about buying the DX lenses and I should get them?


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## MOREGONE (Jun 6, 2013)

I definitely don't think DX will be gone any time soon, if ever. More than focusing on FX like the D600, if anything I think manufacturers are building the mirrorless and micro 4/3rds systems. I could see DX cameras representing a smaller portion of camera sales as many DSLR buyers will just opt for a mirrorless. Will we have 4 DX's (3200, 5200, 7100, & pro DX D400/300) cameras to choose from in the future? Probably not, but I feel there is a lot of room for the DX DLSR's for years to come.

That said, it's not a bad idea to invest in FX glass from the jump if you can. I just got the D600 and have some lenses that I don't necessarily need anymore like the 35 1.8, thought I am keeping it along with my D90


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## goodguy (Jun 6, 2013)

MOREGONE said:


> I definitely don't think DX will be gone any time soon, if ever. More than focusing on FX like the D600, if anything I think manufacturers are building the mirrorless and micro 4/3rds systems. I could see DX cameras representing a smaller portion of camera sales as many DSLR buyers will just opt for a mirrorless. Will we have 4 DX's (3200, 5200, 7100, & pro DX D400/300) cameras to choose from in the future? Probably not, but I feel there is a lot of room for the DX DLSR's for years to come.
> 
> That said, it's not a bad idea to invest in FX glass from the jump if you can. I just got the D600 and have some lenses that I don't necessarily need anymore like the 35 1.8, thought I am keeping it along with my D90



I agree, the question is not FX vs DX but more DSLR vs Mirrorless.
This issue has been on my mind for a while now and I really dont know what the future will bring in that regard.
When thinking DX vs FX I think both formats will be continued to be made for a while.

Bottom line I think best get FX lenses, if you look at my lenses they are all FX even though I am using a crop sensor camera.
If you are starting and plan on buying lenses the FX gives you more flexibility, it will work on both bodies while DX will work only on DX cameras.


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## 480sparky (Jun 6, 2013)

goodguy said:


> ........., it will work on both bodies while DX will work only on DX cameras.



DX lenses will work just fine on an FX body.


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## KmH (Jun 6, 2013)

The micro 4/3 ad 4/3 cameras (2x crop factor) have sensors smaller than Nikon's DX (1.5x crop factor) and Canon's 1.6x crop sensor.


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## TheLost (Jun 6, 2013)

DX is dead on DSLR's...  Nikon just doesn't want you to stop buying 'cheap' dx bodies yet.

APS-C sized mirrorless will replace the D3x00 & D5x00 (and possibly the D7x00) cameras.  Dont think so?  How about all of Nikon's DX Mirrorless patents that keep getting published?
Nikon's 18mm f/2.8 mirrorless DX lens patent | Nikon Rumors


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## Centropolis (Jun 6, 2013)

480sparky said:


> goodguy said:
> 
> 
> > ........., it will work on both bodies while DX will work only on DX cameras.
> ...



I guess they would work in the DX mode or pictures with a huge black border in the FX mode.


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## Centropolis (Jun 6, 2013)

TheLost said:


> DX is dead on DSLR's...  Nikon just doesn't want you to stop buying 'cheap' dx bodies yet.
> 
> APS-C sized mirrorless will replace the D3x00 & D5x00 (and possibly the D7x00) cameras.  Dont think so?  How about all of Nikon's DX Mirrorless patents that keep getting published?
> Nikon's 18mm f/2.8 mirrorless DX lens patent | Nikon Rumors



Well, if they are making DX mirrorless than I am guessing atleast the DX lenses will work on those bodies.    But good luck trying to find cheap wides.


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## Mike_E (Jun 6, 2013)

It seems to me that the question is where do you want to go.

If you seeing yourself going to FX then by all means buy FX.

If on the other hand if the D300s is all the camera that you need it should last you a long, long time.  Buying new over and over again is a 0 sum game for the average consumer.  So long as the dynamic range and image quality of whatever camera you have is sufficient for your needs there really isn't a good reason to buy a new one so long as the one that you have lasts and is in good working order (and from your description a D300s should last you quite a long time).

So, what do you want to do?


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## Gary_A (Jun 6, 2013)

I just bought a D7000 and unless I find a used lens incredibly cheap the only DX lens I plan to have is the kit lens. When I purchase new lenses they will all be FX.


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## goodguy (Jun 6, 2013)

480sparky said:


> goodguy said:
> 
> 
> > ........., it will work on both bodies while DX will work only on DX cameras.
> ...



Ok I will take your work on this, I read that if you mount DX lens on FX body you are going to get dark ends.


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## JDFlood (Jun 6, 2013)

goodguy said:


> Ok I will take your work on this, I read that if you mount DX lens on FX body you are going to get dark ends.



Yes, but by reducing the resolution of the camera dramatically, by only using the center of the sensor. So they work, but not well. JD


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## TheLost (Jun 6, 2013)

goodguy said:


> 480sparky said:
> 
> 
> > goodguy said:
> ...



That is correct.. 'Most' DX lenses will give you that affect..







However, when you attach a DX lens to a FX body it gets recognized as a DX lens and the camera should switch into DX mode (crop mode).   For example, The 24mp D600 turns into 10mp in DX mode.

*EDIT*
However, the D800 in DX mode has almost the exact pixel density as the D7000 (16mp)..  Thats why i think DX is dead.  The mythical 'D400' isn't going to be a DX body.... its going to be a D800 with a faster frame rate


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## Mach0 (Jun 6, 2013)

TheLost said:


> That is correct.. 'Most' DX lenses will give you that affect..
> 
> However, when you attach a DX lens to a FX body it gets recognized as a DX lens and the camera should switch into DX mode (crop mode).   For example, The 24mp D600 turns into 10mp in DX mode.
> 
> ...



I think we are more likely to see a d4 sensor in a d800 body with 7-8 fps before we get a faster frame rate d800. 
Orrrrr a d7100 sensor + d300 style body and buffer but with a faster frame rate for dx.


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## cgw (Jun 6, 2013)

Given that most(80%+, according to Thom Hogan)of the DSLRs Nikon sells are DX, I'm thinking that Nikon APS-C sensor cameras will be around for a few more weeks.

With the D90, D7000 and new 24mp D7100 on the shelves, do you seriously think Nikon(or off-brand lens makers)will abandon the format? Think there's lots of life left in the APS-C sensor.


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## 480sparky (Jun 6, 2013)

TheLost said:


> ....However, when you attach a DX lens to a FX body it gets recognized as a DX lens and the camera should switch into DX mode (crop mode). ......



If you set the camera up to do that.  This is the factory default mode, but you can choose to manually shoot in DX or FX format regardless of what lens is on the camera.


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## 480sparky (Jun 6, 2013)

JDFlood said:


> Yes, but by reducing the resolution of the camera dramatically, by only using the center of the sensor. So they work, but not well. JD



So what's the difference between shooting with a D600 in DX mode, and shooting with, say, a D90 or D5x00?


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## Centropolis (Jun 6, 2013)

cgw said:


> Given that most(80%+, according to Thom Hogan)of the DSLRs Nikon sells are DX, I'm thinking that Nikon APS-C sensor cameras will be around for a few more weeks.
> 
> With the D90, D7000 and new 24mp D7100 on the shelves, do you seriously think Nikon(or off-brand lens makers)will abandon the format? Think there's lots of life left in the APS-C sensor.



Yes but I am guessing that atleast 75% of that 80% is not the D200/D300/D300s but rather D90/D3x00/D5x00.  I don't have any proof of this but that's just my thinking.  What I am trying to say is going forward, it is harder for Nikon to create a market for a pro DX body.  You have to understand that people reading these forums are not the majority of people buying Nikon DSLRs.  A lot of us here might want a pro DX body but for people who wants to spend $800 for a DSLR because they believe they can create better pictures.....they are probably the majority and probably will not payd close to $2,000 for a pro DX body.  And the "pros" will thinking...what the heck...let's go for that $2,000 FX instead of the $1,800 DX.


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## goodguy (Jun 6, 2013)

JDFlood said:


> goodguy said:
> 
> 
> > Ok I will take your work on this, I read that if you mount DX lens on FX body you are going to get dark ends.
> ...





TheLost said:


> goodguy said:
> 
> 
> > 480sparky said:
> ...


So from both these replies it looks like I was right.

You really cant use DX lenses on FX body.
When I say this I mean you cant use DX lens on FX body and expect same results you would get from FX lens.


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## DarkShadow (Jun 6, 2013)

The D600 is supposed to be compatible with DX lenses.So if you twist on a DX lens you get what looks like Vignette?


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## 480sparky (Jun 6, 2013)

DarkShadow said:


> The D600 is supposed to be compatible with DX lenses.So if you twist on a DX lens you get what looks like Vignette?



*ALL* FX bodies will work with DX lenses.  Click here for an explanation.


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## runnah (Jun 6, 2013)

480sparky said:


> ALL FX bodies will work with DX lenses.  Click here for an explanation.



Witchcraft!


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## DarkShadow (Jun 6, 2013)

Thank you 480sparky.


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## cgipson1 (Jun 6, 2013)

480sparky said:


> DarkShadow said:
> 
> 
> > The D600 is supposed to be compatible with DX lenses.So if you twist on a DX lens you get what looks like Vignette?
> ...



And all FX lenses will work on DX bodies... which personally I find to be a much better way to go! But I don't have any DX lenses anymore....


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## 480sparky (Jun 6, 2013)

cgipson1 said:


> 480sparky said:
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> > DarkShadow said:
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Wait...... DX lenses work on FX bodies,..................

and..............

FX lenses work on DX bodies....................

and............

FX lenses work on FX bodies.................................


and.........................




DX lenses work on DX bodies.........................


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## DarkShadow (Jun 6, 2013)

Holly Cow,what a difference looking at the FX sensor size in body compared to DX sensor. Rottweiler vs poodle.


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## matthewo (Jun 6, 2013)

A 35mm 1.8 dx lens isn't half bad on a d800 in 1.2 crop mod.  And even in FF doesn't fully black out, only darken corners, that can almost be brought back totally in post.  So there are a few tiny, cheap, lightweight lenses that will work on fx. Even though designed for dx.  Another is a tokina 11-16.  It turns into a 16mm prime basically on fx but actually works pretty good


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## JohnBoy (Jun 6, 2013)

480sparky said:


> TheLost said:
> 
> 
> > ....However, when you attach a DX lens to a FX body it gets recognized as a DX lens and the camera should switch into DX mode (crop mode). ......
> ...



Geez I haven't checked in here in a long while - got here today via a Google search on an entirely different topic and thought I should take a look.

The default auto mode actually restricts the pixels used by the FX sensor to a few as 6MP depending on the FX camera. Turning this off produces a vignetted image but you can crop away the vignetting and still be left with a lot more quality pixels than many DX cameras will produce. I do this all the time with a 10.5mm DX fisheye on a D800 and a D700 because I don't have a FX fisheye and the results exceed what I can do with the same lens on a D300s for the simple reason that both those cameras, overall, produce better quality images than the 300s particularly at high ISO.

But I won't be getting rid of my 300s because there is no other camera I would take on an overseas holiday. Coupled with the 18-200mm DX zoom it is just about all you need. I think DX will hang around for a long time yet but I don't know if a D400 will ever appear. There is very little demand in pro ranks these days for DX cameras and that trend was cemented in place by the D700 as the first affordable FX with true high ISO capability. Nikon, I believe, will still make more DX cameras but they will be a progression of the current 3000, 5000 and 7000 ranges without things like CF card capability, sync sockets, more plastic less metal, small, light weight, more video capability etc.


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## cgw (Jun 7, 2013)

Centropolis said:


> cgw said:
> 
> 
> > Given that most(80%+, according to Thom Hogan)of the DSLRs Nikon sells are DX, I'm thinking that Nikon APS-C sensor cameras will be around for a few more weeks.
> ...



It just doesn't matter to Nikon. I doubt there will be a "D400" camera with the D7000+D7100 on the shelf that many regard as good enough for most types of shooting. Anyone after a deep buffer and vastly improved IQ switched to FX and paid way more than 2 grand. Rather than follow the rumor sites' fan boy blather about the "pro DX" mirage, I'd suggest that looking at what Nikon sells provides more clues about where Nikon will go.


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