# Forensic Analysis Please



## tirediron

I'm going to withhold the the details behind the image for a bit; but suffice it to say while it's not the sort of image I would normally put out, there is a reason behind it.  I am hoping you can tell me two things:  (1)  What your overall impression of the image is; and (2) what you think has been done. 







Thanks!!!!!!!


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## orf

1) Two people with a dog, posed for a photo in their lounge.

2) They are superimposed on a 'lounge' background?


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## orf

The dog maybe also is taken from another image than the people, so it's multiple images?


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## zombiesniper

Agree with above.

Dam @orf  is quick.

The two people have been composited for sure but the dog may or may not be original to the image.


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## tirediron

zombiesniper said:


> ...The two people have been composited for sure but the dog may or may not be original to the image.


What is giving it away?


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## Braineack

the two people seem to be superimposed onto a picture of a stuffed dog.


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## orf

zombiesniper said:


> Agree with above.
> 
> Dam @orf  is quick.



Thank you sir!

The light on the dog's face is softer.more diffuse than on the people;

The 'shadow' under the lady's right knee, on the carpet looks burnt? (rgb) which has slightly changed the colour?


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## 480sparky

The people and the dog appear to be levitating above the floor.


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## limr

This ^^ The knees look like they are above the carpet, not on the carpet.


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## zombiesniper

tirediron said:


> zombiesniper said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...The two people have been composited for sure but the dog may or may not be original to the image.
> 
> 
> 
> What is giving it away?
Click to expand...


The lighting of the room doesn't quite match the lighting on the two people.

The female has what appears to be a softer focus than the rest of the photo. She has a hard cut line around her.  Her camera right knee wouldn't draw much attention but the one on the left appears to be floating above the floor.

The male has a less noticeable outline but his camera left knee looks like it had to be cut narrow which makes it appear to be cut to almost a point.

Overall a much better job then I could have done.


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## Derrel

As above, people saw what I saw. My guess is that their dog died, and they wanted a "family portrait" made, after Fido was departed...and you stepped up to the plate and took a swing at it.


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## tirediron

Derrel said:


> As above, people saw what I saw. My guess is that their dog died, and they wanted a "family portrait" made, after Fido was departed...and you stepped up to the plate and took a swing at it.


Close...  Fido has only a short time left and they wanted a nice portrait.  Unfortunately there's only a very small space in which to work and apparently, for the first time in literally months, Mollie was active and would not sit still (which apparently is what she does 99.9% of the rest of the time) and kept bringing me her toys.  After an hour it was decided to pack it in to avoid stressing her out.  

Mollie and her cushion are the "original" photo.  Mom, Dad, the fireplace, and a punch of other bits are all composited.  I'm honestly not very happy with it at all but will it pass muster for non-photographers?


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## orf

Yes, it will look fine on a side table or mantelpiece.


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## snowbear

I’m sure they will love it.


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## vintagesnaps

They probably will think it looks fine. Is there any possibility of you going again? I just wonder if the dog would be used to you enough now that it won't keep bringing you toys. Maybe keep it to a shorter session/visit, show them this? or let them know it was challenging to edit and see what works out in trying to get a few more photos.


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## Destin

@zombiesniper hit my observations dead on.

I’ll add that their arms sort of get amputated at the dog and there is nowhere that the could realistically go; they would literally be inside the dog if they were actually where they appear to be.. the depth doesn’t add up.


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## 480sparky

Perhaps you can burn in some shadows under them and make it more believable.


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## tirediron

Unfortunately, I'm not sure a reshoot is feasible, and even if it was I'm not sure the results would be much improved, but I will suggest it.  As for the arms, while I see what you mean, both of them were cut out of poses that were almost identical to the one created  here; the only difference being Mollie's head position, and yes, working on the shadows.  Thanks all!


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## Designer

tirediron said:


> ..will it pass muster for non-photographers?


Possibly.  

As my father used to say; "Looks good going by on a fast horse."

As you are no doubt aware, there are non-photographers who are visually adept, and those you will not fool, so it really depends on your target audience/customer.  

I really don't know how one would assemble a composite to be so realistic that it would fool almost everybody, so this is probably "good enough".  (My dad's favorite pet peeve saying, BTW.)  It's either good or it isn't.  

Anyway, for me the biggest problem is where the human arms are.  It is not possible that they could actually be behind the dog, given the relative position of all three subjects.  If you could somehow fix the arms, it might fool more people.  If you could find a photo with their arms in their laps, that might be a better starting point.


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## BananaRepublic

tirediron said:


> I'm going to withhold the the details behind the image for a bit; but suffice it to say while it's not the sort of image I would normally put out, there is a reason behind it.  I am hoping you can tell me two things:  (1)  What your overall impression of the image is; and (2) what you think has been done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!!!!!!!



Fake news.   Both people have been pasted in, there legs are stupid, especially the guys knee. The dog is  looks stuffed. Why go to the bother of stringing all that work together when the background is all wrong.


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## Fstop-

tirediron said:


> What is giving it away?



The edges of the people are to sharp makes then stand out as a cut out.feathering the edges might help. 

The lighting on the people is different more exposed then the dog


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## tirediron

BananaRepublic said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to withhold the the details behind the image for a bit; but suffice it to say while it's not the sort of image I would normally put out, there is a reason behind it.  I am hoping you can tell me two things:  (1)  What your overall impression of the image is; and (2) what you think has been done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fake news.   Both people have been pasted in, there legs are stupid, especially the guys knee. The dog is  looks stuffed. Why go to the bother of stringing all that work together when the background is all wrong.
Click to expand...

Well... that's very helpful.  I appreciate you taking the time to put together than insightful critique.  I think I mentioned WHY I was doing it, and I'm aware of what was done, AND I'm aware that it is a rather clumsy attempt.  My goal is to give the client a reasonable result, and as I'm the one that's done the work, it's difficult for me to judge how well some of it has been done, hence I am seeking assistance from the TPF community


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## tirediron

Based on the points raised here, I think I will scrap this and start over again.


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## birdbonkers84

Probably pointless replying now, but this is what I saw...

I knew the people were a different images because of the white fringing around the gentleman's shoulder and right arm, against a darker background it stands out.  Also the white fringing around the ladies face and hair. I then noticed the knees of the couple, there were lack of contact shadows (ambient occlusion) between the knees and floor.  These led me to believe that the couple were a cut-out.

I then looked at the dog, it looked like 1 image because the shadows around where its body connects with the cushion looked real, the really dark areas then gradually getting lighter as it moved away form the areas of contact.

There was no white fringing around the top of the dogs head against the dark of the fireplace image, fireplace may be different too as I dont see a reflection in the glass?

Lastly the pose looked awkward.

Very sad read about the health of the dog, but it's a lovely idea and I hope it gives them continued joy later down the line.


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## SquarePeg

Only a pro or someone looking for a "faked" photo will notice any of the things pointed out.  99% of the population would not see it or if they did notice something is off they would not be able to pinpoint what it is.  I'm sure they will love it.


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## BananaRepublic

SquarePeg said:


> Only a pro or someone looking for a "faked" photo will notice any of the things pointed out.  99% of the population would not see it or if they did notice something is off they would not be able to pinpoint what it is.  I'm sure they will love it.



Your Probably right but could the ethical photographer, not speaking of the OP but a in general, live with the result. 



tirediron said:


> Based on the points raised here, I think I will scrap this and start over again.



If the dog has checked out of the building you could still use him as he is there, seeing as most people hammered you on the people.


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## tirediron

BananaRepublic said:


> Your Probably right but could the ethical photographer, not speaking of the OP but a in general, live with the result.


Hence the reason I sought peer critique and input.


BananaRepublic said:


> If the dog has checked out of the building you could still use him as he is there, seeing as most people hammered you on the people.


I wasn't aware anyone "hammered" me on anything.  I asked for input on an image, and I received it.


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## john.margetts

tirediron said:


> zombiesniper said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...The two people have been composited for sure but the dog may or may not be original to the image.
> 
> 
> 
> What is giving it away?
Click to expand...

The edges of the people are too definite. Real people have curved edges.


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## tirediron

john.margetts said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> zombiesniper said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...The two people have been composited for sure but the dog may or may not be original to the image.
> 
> 
> 
> What is giving it away?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The edges of the people are too definite. Real people have curved edges.
Click to expand...

I need to feather my selections and do some more work in that area.  Round Two... here we come.


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## pixmedic

Forensic analysis:

well, the rug looks like its already been cleaned of fibers, but the culprits missed one by the womans knee that we might be able to analyze back at the lab. 
 the TV has been wiped down, but we should check the back for prints. 
the dog is our key witness and will be thoroughly interrogated using the latest techniques. belly rubs, bacon treats, and butt scratches.


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## jaomul

Can I suggest something. Obviously this photo was done with the best intentions in mind to try give a nice memory. Sometimes things don't work out quite as well as hoped. There are some photoshop wizards here who could likely make it better than you think it is. Put it on the photoshop challenge thread and I'll guess that someone can do a nice job (not that your photo is bad but camera guys and computer guys posses different skills)

just an idea


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## jaomul

BananaRepublic said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to withhold the the details behind the image for a bit; but suffice it to say while it's not the sort of image I would normally put out, there is a reason behind it.  I am hoping you can tell me two things:  (1)  What your overall impression of the image is; and (2) what you think has been done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fake news.   Both people have been pasted in, there legs are stupid, especially the guys knee. The dog is  looks stuffed. Why go to the bother of stringing all that work together when the background is all wrong.
Click to expand...


Pretty harsh given the context of the story


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## orf

It there was less carpet in front of them I wouldn't look at the legs. Can it be 3:2 instead of 4:3, or 10x8?


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## Light Guru

The mans knee just looks horrible. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tirediron

Light Guru said:


> The mans knee just looks horrible.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yep... that was more of a place-holder than anything.


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## tirediron

jaomul said:


> Can I suggest something. Obviously this photo was done with the best intentions in mind to try give a nice memory. Sometimes things don't work out quite as well as hoped. There are some photoshop wizards here who could likely make it better than you think it is. Put it on the photoshop challenge thread and I'll guess that someone can do a nice job (not that your photo is bad but camera guys and computer guys posses different skills)
> 
> just an idea


Good idea, but it's a big job as there are four or five separate images to work with.


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## jaomul

tirediron said:


> jaomul said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can I suggest something. Obviously this photo was done with the best intentions in mind to try give a nice memory. Sometimes things don't work out quite as well as hoped. There are some photoshop wizards here who could likely make it better than you think it is. Put it on the photoshop challenge thread and I'll guess that someone can do a nice job (not that your photo is bad but camera guys and computer guys posses different skills)
> 
> just an idea
> 
> 
> 
> Good idea, but it's a big job as there are four or five separate images to work with.
Click to expand...


I'm sure you'd find people here more than happy to do it


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## vintagesnaps

Don't drive yourself too nuts tinkering with it; they were there, they know what the dog was doing and realize you've needed to do some editing. So it's a photo illustration. I think they'll be glad to have it however you got there with it.


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## BananaRepublic

jaomul said:


> BananaRepublic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to withhold the the details behind the image for a bit; but suffice it to say while it's not the sort of image I would normally put out, there is a reason behind it.  I am hoping you can tell me two things:  (1)  What your overall impression of the image is; and (2) what you think has been done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fake news.   Both people have been pasted in, there legs are stupid, especially the guys knee. The dog is  looks stuffed. Why go to the bother of stringing all that work together when the background is all wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pretty harsh given the context of the story
Click to expand...


Look I didn't read down through other posts before writing mine. It wasn't a sort of personal repudiation I simply wanted to be short and precise instead of going into a long winded  commentary


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## BananaRepublic

tirediron said:


> BananaRepublic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your Probably right but could the ethical photographer, not speaking of the OP but a in general, live with the result.
> 
> 
> 
> Hence the reason I sought peer critique and input.
> 
> 
> BananaRepublic said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the dog has checked out of the building you could still use him as he is there, seeing as most people hammered you on the people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I wasn't aware anyone "hammered" me on anything.  I asked for input on an image, and I received it.
Click to expand...


Ok swap hammered you with bashed the image on.........


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## thereyougo!

BananaRepublic said:


> jaomul said:
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> 
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> 
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> BananaRepublic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to withhold the the details behind the image for a bit; but suffice it to say while it's not the sort of image I would normally put out, there is a reason behind it.  I am hoping you can tell me two things:  (1)  What your overall impression of the image is; and (2) what you think has been done.
> 
> 
> 
> Fake news.   Both people have been pasted in, there legs are stupid, especially the guys knee. The dog is  looks stuffed. Why go to the bother of stringing all that work together when the background is all wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty harsh given the context of the story
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look I didn't read down through other posts before writing mine. It wasn't a sort of personal repudiation I simply wanted to be short and precise instead of going into a long winded  commentary
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Don't moan at people for rightly picking up your over the top insensitive harshness when you can't be bothered to read the other posts.  You got it wrong.  Own up to the error.


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## BananaRepublic

thereyougo! said:


> BananaRepublic said:
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> jaomul said:
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> BananaRepublic said:
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> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to withhold the the details behind the image for a bit; but suffice it to say while it's not the sort of image I would normally put out, there is a reason behind it.  I am hoping you can tell me two things:  (1)  What your overall impression of the image is; and (2) what you think has been done.
> 
> 
> 
> Fake news.   Both people have been pasted in, there legs are stupid, especially the guys knee. The dog is  looks stuffed. Why go to the bother of stringing all that work together when the background is all wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty harsh given the context of the story
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look I didn't read down through other posts before writing mine. It wasn't a sort of personal repudiation I simply wanted to be short and precise instead of going into a long winded  commentary
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't moan at people for rightly picking up your over the top insensitive harshness when you can't be bothered to read the other posts.  You got it wrong.  Own up to the error.
Click to expand...


I made no error


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## thereyougo!

BananaRepublic said:


> thereyougo! said:
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> BananaRepublic said:
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> jaomul said:
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> BananaRepublic said:
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> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to withhold the the details behind the image for a bit; but suffice it to say while it's not the sort of image I would normally put out, there is a reason behind it.  I am hoping you can tell me two things:  (1)  What your overall impression of the image is; and (2) what you think has been done.
> 
> 
> 
> Fake news.   Both people have been pasted in, there legs are stupid, especially the guys knee. The dog is  looks stuffed. Why go to the bother of stringing all that work together when the background is all wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty harsh given the context of the story
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look I didn't read down through other posts before writing mine. It wasn't a sort of personal repudiation I simply wanted to be short and precise instead of going into a long winded  commentary
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't moan at people for rightly picking up your over the top insensitive harshness when you can't be bothered to read the other posts.  You got it wrong.  Own up to the error.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I made no error
Click to expand...


So you think given the context, you don't think you could have worded it less harshly without going into a long commentary.  Balderdash.  Codswallop.  Nonsense.


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## BananaRepublic

No, its the fashionable thing what with the man in the White House.


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