# Exposure bracketing - more than 3 shots for HDR



## Jon_Are (Aug 10, 2009)

I've been experimenting with indoor HDR, trying to capture the full dynamic range of a room without flash. I've run into some trouble, though, shooting rooms with windows on a relatively sunny day.

I find I'm not able to create a nicely-exposed image using just three bracketed exposures (+/- 2 EV). Because this is the limit of what my D80 will bracket, I've concluded that many of my HDRs will require 5 or more images.

So, I guess I have to capture my first three shots, then adjust the shutter speed without moving the camera even a hair, and shoot another set.

My question: Is this do-able? (I know I should just try it, and I will tomorrow, but I'd like to hear some input from y'all.)

I use LR2 and Photomatix. Is Photomatix pretty good at lining up the images if they're not quite perfectly aligned?

Thanks!

Jon


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## Josh66 (Aug 10, 2009)

Jon_Are said:


> My question: Is this do-able?



Yes.  Very easily.

You're making it harder than it has to be.

Don't use AEB.  Go to Manual mode.


Meter the darkest part.  Note those settings down.
Meter the brightest part.  Note that down.

Now you know the dynamic range of the scene.

I guess the easiest thing would be to just split it up in 1 stop increments.

Your scene covers 7 stops?  Take 7 exposures.  First using the settings you noted down for the dark part, last with the settings from the light part.  Equal spacing between.

*[*EDIT-  If you want to make all of that adjusting easier on yourself, switch your camera to adjust in 1/2 stop increments instead of 1/3 stop increments.  (Should be a custom function.)  ...Can you really tell if the exposure is 1/6th of a stop off?*]*

IMO, this is _much_ easier in M.  No need to mess around with AEB.
To me, AEB is more for when you are just unsure of the proper exposure - not quite as good for what you're trying to do.

EDIT
I know I shouldn't have to ask (I assume you know better...), but you are using a tripod, right?


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## Overread (Aug 10, 2009)

From a lining up the images point of view it should certainly be possible if your tripod mounted, the minor shake caused will be neglegable and the comptuer will (should) easily be able to compensate for that. 
Heck handheld I have focus stacked images in the past with good results (similar to exposure stacking, but instead of staking the exposure differences its stacking different points of focus) though its not easy and a tripod really does make things a heck of a lot easier


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## Jon_Are (Aug 10, 2009)

Hey, Josh,

Actually, I _am_ shooting (and bracketing) in manual. To be honest, your solution - to shoot seven individual frames - sounds more difficult than shooting two sets of three bracketed shots. With your way, I'd have to shoot, make an adjustment, shoot, make an adjustment....etc. X 7. The other way, I could shoot one set of (bracketed) three, adjust, then shoot one more set.

Or am I missing something?

I'm going out on a shoot tomorrow. Here is my plan (please tell me if it is flawed):



Manual mode, ISO 100, aperture fixed at 6.7.
Meter - with my 6.7 set - for the windows (let's say I get a reading of 250 for the shutter speed here)
Use this 250 to determine my starting point; go, say, 2 clicks higher (which would be 500).
Now, on manual, I'm set at 500 / 6.7 and bracketing three exposures at 1.5 EV.
Shoot my first set, which will give me shutter speeds of 500, 180 & 60.
Dial down the shutter speed 9 clicks (to 20).
Shoot my second set of three, which will give me speeds of 20, 8 & 3.
Now I have six exposures of a very wide range, and I only had to make one careful adjustment to the camera.

Now, certainly I'll end up with a good number of shots that I can't use, but I think I'd have the range of exposures pretty well covered, enough to make a suitable HDR.

I'm also wondering if I should go to 1.0 EV instead of 1.5. Using my above example, here is a comparison: 

1.5 EV:  500, 180, 60, 20, 8, 3
1.0 EV:  350, 180, 90, 45, 20, 10

Whattaya think?

And, oh yeah, I'm using a tripod. :mrgreen:

Jon


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## Jon_Are (Aug 10, 2009)

Overread, thanks for your input as well. I was hoping that Photomatix would be able to compensate to some degree for an image that might be just a hair off.

Jon


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## shed301 (Aug 10, 2009)

Jon_Are said:


> Overread, thanks for your input as well. I was hoping that Photomatix would be able to compensate to some degree for an image that might be just a hair off.
> 
> Jon



yes photomatix does line everything up quite nicely... which is a good tool to use when doing hand held HDR shots

straight after you load up all your pics you'll get this window







click on alignment and let it do it's thing... after it's finished go to tone mapping there you can make your adjustments. i usually make subtle ones then finish them off in lightroom

hope this helps
Grant

PS: apologies for answering for overread and my apologies for hi-jacking the thread


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## Big Mike (Aug 10, 2009)

> Actually, I am shooting (and bracketing) in manual. To be honest, your solution - to shoot seven individual frames - sounds more difficult than shooting two sets of three bracketed shots. With your way, I'd have to shoot, make an adjustment, shoot, make an adjustment....etc. X 7. The other way, I could shoot one set of (bracketed) three, adjust, then shoot one more set.
> 
> Or am I missing something?


I think that his point was that it's more simple if you don't have to put the camera into AEB mode at all.  Just find your starting point; shoot then adjust, shoot then adjust etc.  There doesn't need to be much trouble.  I think that might be easier than putting the camera into AEB mode, taking the three shots, then taking it out of AEB, putting it back in etc.


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## inTempus (Aug 10, 2009)

I often shoot HDR's hand held.  This was shot with my 5DMk2 which shoots really slowly on continuous mode...   But I did it hand held and just used Photomatix to align things properly (automatically).


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## inTempus (Aug 10, 2009)

Since you have Lightroom, you can just shoot your 3 bracketed shots, then clone your darkest image and your brightest image and bump them 1 stop down and 1 stop up (respectively) to increase your dynamic range.  You don't need to physically shoot more shots to get the spread in exposure.


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## Garbz (Aug 11, 2009)

Do you also have photoshop or any other program that allows you to use blended layers? 

I once had a set of handheld HDRs that didn't align at all in photomatix. What I did was load them into photoshop, pick a standard reference image (middle), put the others on it as an additional layer (individually), set the layer mode to difference and then moved the layer manually till everything was black (or dark rather since the images themselves have different exposures).

Turn off layer blending and save the file. Rinse and repeat of each "unalignable" image and you're dancing a victory dance.


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## Jon_Are (Aug 11, 2009)

> I think that his point was that it's more simple if you don't have to put the camera into AEB mode at all. Just find your starting point; shoot then adjust, shoot then adjust etc.



I really don't see how this is a better solution. My goal is to touch the camera as little as possible during the series of shots. My concern is that there will be some camera movement each time I make an adjustment. With your method, you are adjusting (touching) the set-up 5 or 6 times; with mine, just once.



> I think that might be easier than putting the camera into AEB mode, taking the three shots, then taking it out of AEB, putting it back in etc.



There is no need to take it out of AEB, then put it back in AEB; once it is in bracketing, it stays there until I change that setting.

Jon


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## Jon_Are (Aug 11, 2009)

> Since you have Lightroom, you can just shoot your 3 bracketed shots, then clone your darkest image and your brightest image and bump them 1 stop down and 1 stop up (respectively) to increase your dynamic range.



This may be worth trying.

Jon


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## Garbz (Aug 11, 2009)

Jon_Are said:


> > Since you have Lightroom, you can just shoot your 3 bracketed shots, then clone your darkest image and your brightest image and bump them 1 stop down and 1 stop up (respectively) to increase your dynamic range.
> 
> 
> 
> This may be worth trying.



Bearly. This gets you very very little extra dynamic range. About the same as dragging the recovery slider to about position 15/100.

You want more range you need to record more, not fake more through screwing with the curves of the image (oh and photomatix works best with a standard contrast curve)


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## Josh66 (Aug 11, 2009)

Jon_Are said:


> > I think that his point was that it's more simple if you don't have to put the camera into AEB mode at all. Just find your starting point; shoot then adjust, shoot then adjust etc.
> 
> 
> 
> I really don't see how this is a better solution. My goal is to touch the camera as little as possible during the series of shots. My concern is that there will be some camera movement each time I make an adjustment. With your method, you are adjusting (touching) the set-up 5 or 6 times; with mine, just once.



Is it on a tripod?  I wouldn't worry about it moving just from touching it to change settings...  If it moves that easily, you need a new tripod.


My point, aside from being (IMO) easier, it that it's more accurate too.  With AEB, you will always be guessing (at least partly).  You will end up with frames that you didn't really need.  The only way to avoid that would be to do the same thing I'm talking about, then put it in AEB bracketing by one stop, then make your starting point one stop above the first frame with your ending point one stop under the last frame.

That sounds harder to me.  Almost the same thing, but with a few extra steps.


EDIT
No matter how you do it, you have to know where to start and stop.
The only way to know that is to meter the scene like I described up at the top.
Once you've done that, it just seems easier to go ahead and start taking the pictures, instead of doing more setting up getting AEB set up the way it needs to be to do what you want.


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## Jon_Are (Aug 11, 2009)

Well, I went out on a shoot today and I'm pretty happy with the results. I had no problems at all with camera movement when changing settings, as I feared. I used my method described earlier, but I'm always willing to learn something better, so thanks for your input, Josh.

Anyway, here are a few from today:


1.




2.




3.


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