# Help photographing some "interesting" objects NSFW



## Butterman (May 11, 2019)

Hey everyone, I'm glad to join the forum and looking forward to becoming part of the community here.

I've been a part time product photographer for about 5-6 years now. I currently started a new full time position for a sex toy company as their photographer and retoucher.  I'm halfway decent with with photoshop and comp work but clear objects have always been a bit of a nemesis of mine.  Upon starting to research their website during the interview process and actually starting the position I noticed their products are so heavily photoshopped they almost always end up looking like renders which is a bit intimidating to me.

My first week starting, I was tasked with photographing some clear "pumps".  I'm okay with shooting simple glass objects like wine glasses for example (normally i'll use a speedlight from behind the object and flag the edges for some shape), however this object has writing etched into the product to show measurements like you would see in a measuring cup so to speak.  I'm having trouble understanding if I am able to really get that in camera or if it just needs to be completely photoshopped.  The other part of the problem is that the clear plastic area's of the pump that are translucent in need to be masked in PS where it is then transfered to the package design team to be put on packaging.  That means the clear glass needs to be masked out where they can place the product in front of gradients/graphics that show through the product as if it was shot with said gradient behind it I'm guessing? This is an existing photo from their website I need to create. 








Anyway I hope I can maybe get some help, and thanks to anyone who wants to reach out and discuss any of this with me.

Portfolio: patrick hendry
Instagram:  @Agent_Butterman


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## Jeff15 (May 11, 2019)

Hello and welcome...........


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## Butterman (May 11, 2019)

Jeff15 said:


> Hello and welcome...........


Thanks Jeff!  Nice to meet you on here.


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## Overread (May 13, 2019)

I can't help with the lighting issue save to wonder if a backlight or light from underneath the subject and behind (or even inside) might help highlight the markings more clearly by giving an additional angle of light to increase contrast over the markings specifically. 
Otherwise its a problem even in teh real world when clear plastic measuring containers have no colour difference on their markings. They are often more readable when filled with a coloured liquid though, so perhaps even some kind of coloured insert (paper?) could help. It wouldn't even have to travel all the way up, just part way to show a few of the markings. 

Note I've added a NSFW comment to the title since whilst there's no nudity or such the subject matter might raise some eyebrows for some, so just playing it safe (if anything it will probably get the thread more attention rather than less)


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## JonFZ300 (May 13, 2019)

Overread said:


> Note I've added a NSFW comment to the title since whilst there's no nudity or such the subject matter might raise some eyebrows for some, so just playing it safe (if anything it will probably get the thread more attention rather than less)



Includes 1 stay hard cock ring. This looks like next level spam to me. "Hi guys, I'm having trouble shooting this product. Here's two pictures of the product. Reach out if you want to talk about any of this. Here's my website and instagram."


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## Overread (May 13, 2019)

JonFZ300 said:


> Overread said:
> 
> 
> > Note I've added a NSFW comment to the title since whilst there's no nudity or such the subject matter might raise some eyebrows for some, so just playing it safe (if anything it will probably get the thread more attention rather than less)
> ...



It's not our normal product, but the users website is a perfectly normal Adobe Portfolio page showing portraits, landscapes and other products the photographer has taken. No connection to any form of sale or trade what so ever. I don't see any attempt to spam or advertise nor solicit sales.


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## smoke665 (May 13, 2019)

Butterman said:


> I'm having trouble understanding if I am able to really get that in camera or if it just needs to be completely photoshopped.



I've done a few glass shots using the "White Line" and "Black Line" method highlighted here Sekonic > Classroom > Articles . "White Line" will do a better job with details in the glass, while "Black Line" does better outlining the shape. Nothing says you can't use a composite of both methods. Both methods are about controlling the light with reflectors and flags.


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## Butterman (May 13, 2019)

Thanks so much for getting back to me with all the helpful advice and articles everyone!  I'm going to take another stab at it today and see if I can come up with something that closely resembles their expectations using a few of these methods.  I'll report back with what I end up coming up with. 

I think my biggest issue is trying to figure how I can mask out the plastic properly where graphics will be able to show through the subject while on packaging. 



Overread said:


> Note I've added a NSFW comment to the title since whilst there's no nudity or such the subject matter might raise some eyebrows for some, so just playing it safe (if anything it will probably get the thread more attention rather than less)



Thanks for the heads up, I apologize for not throwing that into the title.  It won't happen again! 



JonFZ300 said:


> Overread said:
> 
> 
> > Note I've added a NSFW comment to the title since whilst there's no nudity or such the subject matter might raise some eyebrows for some, so just playing it safe (if anything it will probably get the thread more attention rather than less)
> ...



@JonFZ300 And that sounds super paranoid to me.  A product is a product and they all need to be shot by people in our profession one way or another.  A job is a job and subject matter could be WAY more fringe than a couple of sex toys on white seamless.

The portfolio and links I provided was intended to do nothing more than show what my experience level is for other posters to better gauge what advice may help me or critique my work in order to help me become a better photographer.   If I had linked to the company website or a personal store to sell products, that would be an entirely different story and that should be overwhelmingly obvious.


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## jcdeboever (May 13, 2019)

What do those things pick up and measure? I see grad marks on the side... the photography looks good.


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## smoke665 (May 13, 2019)

jcdeboever said:


> What do those things pick up and measure? I



Seriously JC???????


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## jcdeboever (May 13, 2019)

smoke665 said:


> jcdeboever said:
> 
> 
> > What do those things pick up and measure? I
> ...


What??? I never seen such a thing. I read its a sex toy but trying to figure its game....[emoji848]


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## Derrel (May 13, 2019)

Definitely a good idea to add the NSFW to the title!


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## pixmedic (May 13, 2019)

jcdeboever said:


> smoke665 said:
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> > jcdeboever said:
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i think its for pumping breastmilk?

anyway, i do a bit of product photography and use a 16x16 inch LED lightbox... these all look like they were shot in something like that. 
honestly, they look fine to me. you could always take out the round shadows with an editing program, but im not sure if it would be a significant improvement or not.


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## jcdeboever (May 13, 2019)

pixmedic said:


> jcdeboever said:
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> > smoke665 said:
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Oh, that makes sense. It holds a whole bottle. I guess the sex toy thing threw me off...Im stupid like that.


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## JonFZ300 (May 13, 2019)

Overread said:


> It's not our normal product, but the users website is a perfectly normal Adobe Portfolio page showing portraits, landscapes and other products the photographer has taken. No connection to any form of sale or trade what so ever. I don't see any attempt to spam or advertise nor solicit sales.



First post, asking how to shoot a subject and the picture of the subject is an already perfect advert shot, with the product name and all right there. I guess I'm paranoid. 



Butterman said:


> @JonFZ300 And that sounds super paranoid to me.  A product is a product and they all need to be shot by people in our profession one way or another.  A job is a job and subject matter could be WAY more fringe than a couple of sex toys on white seamless.



Paranoid, cynical? yes!! lol Why wouldn't they just use the already perfect pics that you posted? Really have no dog in this fight, just weird that it's your first post and includes perfect advert pics and you're asking to shoot/edit an advert pic. Carry on.


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## Derrel (May 13, 2019)

Why not "brush on" the desired corrections in post? One of the Taiwan retouching houses could improve this for $2-$3, in probably less than an hour, maybe 10 hours turn-around time. A little clarity, sharpening, brightness could make this much better.


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## Butterman (May 13, 2019)

JonFZ300 said:


> Overread said:
> 
> 
> > It's not our normal product, but the users website is a perfectly normal Adobe Portfolio page showing portraits, landscapes and other products the photographer has taken. No connection to any form of sale or trade what so ever. I don't see any attempt to spam or advertise nor solicit sales.
> ...



No dog in the fight?  What fight?  I posted an old shot of an old product where as new pumps are to be photographed from various different manufacturers.   I don't know what you're particularly so upset about to be honest.   It's crazy to think they'd produce more than a single product that's a pump am I right? 

Maybe you're right and my sinister plans were not how to match the old photographer and retouchers standard on how to make a similar product shot, but to sell penis pumps to other photographers on the internet!! Dude, lmao.

It really is quite amazing.  I literally came in here asking for help how to match the shot I posted.  That is not my shot and I stated that very clearly. My intentions were to join a forum, ask advice, and become part of the community.


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## Soocom1 (May 13, 2019)

There was a similar thread a few weeks back about glass and light. 
The one point that kept coming out was the use of absorbing reflectors. (black) so that reflections were cut down and detail come out. 

Then there is the matter of lens and camera setup.


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## Butterman (May 13, 2019)

pixmedic said:


> jcdeboever said:
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> > smoke665 said:
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Yeah these particular shots weren't done by me.  I'm looking to make my own shots that will be similar to this shot as I'm trying to kinda reverse engineer what needs to be done that would be acceptable.  I was in the studio and on my workstation going through my own pictures at work and my results were not coming out so well.  Mostly do to the measurements not showing up right, and I was puzzled how to mask out the object but still keep its form to be used on product packaging as shown in the photos.  It seems to me that possibly the only real thing from in the camera here is the cord, squeezy pump, the black plastic areas, and maybe the shape of the plastic tube.  I'm guessing he just painted all those highlights in and kept nothing from the inside of the actual plastic, otherwise I don't know how you'd be able to transfer the object over packaging and maintain it being see through over whatever design is put behind it.


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## Derrel (May 13, 2019)

Butterman said:


> [
> Yeah these particular shots weren't done by me.  I'm looking to make my own shot>SNIP>>



Ohhhhhhh......


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## JBPhotog (May 13, 2019)

I believe you are dealing with composites in your example shots and there is either a significant amount of retouching or these are illustrations meant to look like photography. All plastic and rubber castings have defects or molding seams, there is none of this in any of the samples. The drop shadows are also added in post.

Why I say this:
- The single pump image does not show the reflection of the packaging which would be evident if it were standing next to it as shown. The pump hose and bulb are not reflecting or casting any shadow on the pump cylinder. So they look to be separately imaged and composited in post or simply coloured in post via a Hue/Saturation layer.
- Looking closely at the multi pump images, you can see white highlights around the bulb, this indicates they were close-cut.
- The highlights are exactly the same on each one of the bulbs and bulb valves so I would say these have simply been duplicated.
- The "ring" is clearly close-cut, note the white outline, I would venture to guess this is an illustrated item.
- Notice the white highlight around the silicone base of the blue pump, right upper edge. This would not be evident if these were a group shot since the black pump would be interrupting the reflection.

So that was a quick dissection but doesn't solve your issue for the most part other than you may need to shoot them in pieces and composit them in post. I would approach this with an overhead light source with the product on a sheet of white plexiglass with a light underneath it(note the highlight on the under edge of the silicone base where is meets the plastic pump tube) if you want to duplicate the under light effect. Killing the base highlight where it sits on the surface can solved by adding a circular card, or for that matter adding the highlight in post. Adding additional reflector cards to the left and right front of the pump for edge definition. You will need to gauge your success with your eye at lens position. Adding black cards behind to the left and right of the pump should give you an edge to close-cut them.


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## Butterman (May 14, 2019)

JBPhotog said:


> I believe you are dealing with composites in your example shots and there is either a significant amount of retouching or these are illustrations meant to look like photography. All plastic and rubber castings have defects or molding seams, there is none of this in any of the samples. The drop shadows are also added in post.
> 
> Why I say this:
> - The single pump image does not show the reflection of the packaging which would be evident if it were standing next to it as shown. The pump hose and bulb are not reflecting or casting any shadow on the pump cylinder. So they look to be separately imaged and composited in post or simply coloured in post via a Hue/Saturation layer.
> ...



This is great advice thank you so much dude!  I really appreciate it.  

So looking into one of the left behind PSD files.  The box is just perspective warped in PS from illustrator box art made by the design team.  It seems that more or less every image I look more into on their site its as though he was using the camera just to get the shape of the subject then literally just paint over the entire thing in PS.  That is not my forte whatsoever so I'm gonna have to figure that one out in terms of their look.  

I'm going to use your techniques to try and get a good shot to use the item since I've been putting it off and moving onto simpler products throughout the week.


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## JBPhotog (May 14, 2019)

Butterman said:


> This is great advice thank you so much dude!  I really appreciate it.
> 
> So looking into one of the left behind PSD files.  The box is just perspective warped in PS from illustrator box art made by the design team.  It seems that more or less every image I look more into on their site its as though he was using the camera just to get the shape of the subject then literally just paint over the entire thing in PS.  That is not my forte whatsoever so I'm gonna have to figure that one out in terms of their look.
> 
> I'm going to use your techniques to try and get a good shot to use the item since I've been putting it off and moving onto simpler products throughout the week.



Bear in mind that Illustrator can do perspective control too so as mentioned earlier, the packaging was likely completely rendered in Illustrator. I agree that the pump itself was retouched via layers in post production.

Good luck with the shoot and feel free to post your progress.


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## Butterman (May 14, 2019)

JBPhotog said:


> Butterman said:
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> 
> > This is great advice thank you so much dude!  I really appreciate it.
> ...



I'll absolutely keep the progress up to date, thanks so much again!


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## Derrel (May 14, 2019)

Butterman said:


> SNIP>>>my sinister plans wereSNIP>to sell penis pumps to other photographers on the internet!



A sinister plan, indeed! LOL


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## zulu42 (May 14, 2019)

Derrel said:


> Butterman said:
> 
> 
> > SNIP>>>my sinister plans wereSNIP>to sell penis pumps to other photographers on the internet!
> ...



Does Leica or Manfrotto make one?


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## Derrel (May 14, 2019)

zulu42 said:


> Derrel said:
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> > Butterman said:
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I did a Google search for "Manfrotto penis pump"... Manfrotto DOES make a vacuum CLAMP..but not a vacuum cylinder for "male enhancement". 

Leica allegedly (meaning, *I heard this from a friend of a friend's uncle's second cousin's best friend*) explored entering the product category in the mid-1960's, but the red dot company is known for its conservative approach. Leica management declined to enter the market for vacuum cylinders after an April 1, 1965 meeting in Germany, at a Howard Johnson's in Berlin.


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## Butterman (May 24, 2019)

::UPDATE::

So after working there for a few weeks now and reviewing more of their website and deconstructing their PSD files it's safe to say that 75% of the products are illustrated over an existing photo for reference.  The previous photographer was an expert graphics artist and would use the existing shape and paint over everything like an artist more or less.  The only photos that are "normally touched up" (IE - removal of dust/scratches/throw in some fake gradients here and there, etc) are some of the non reflective/non-clear products.  Everything else it completely painted over losing all information taken in the actual photo.  It's much like a lot of the jewelry photography you'd see shipped over to India or China for retouching and your entire product is just painted over with the brush tool and gradients using the existing shape.

As for the clear tube of the pump its an illustration that is then set as a multiply later in PS to then become see through.  As that sort of work is not my wheel house whatsoever, I'm trying my best to learn as fast as possible to meet their standards, but am also trying to swing the art direction to more of an in hand look preserving as much of the product as possible just being well photographed and cleaned up.  It's been a stressful journey so far but we'll see where it goes.

Anybody with similar experiences please feel free to share.  It's been worrisome as a photographer the last couple of years watching more companies becoming so much more reliant on completely fake renders and illustrations to advertise their products rather than anything similar to what you get in hand.


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## Derrel (May 24, 2019)

_*an in hand look*_
_*

lol*_


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## Derrel (May 24, 2019)

Those Taiwan retouching houses offer low prices and quick turnaround.


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## Butterman (May 24, 2019)

Derrel said:


> _*an in hand look
> 
> 
> lol*_



Yes, an image that still shows any information captured in camera vs an an entire illustration drawn over it. 

Otherwise why does commercial product photography even exist in the first place?


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## JBPhotog (May 24, 2019)

As I suspected in my previous post, it looks too fake to be straight photography.

That sort of approach is not permissible in N.A., there are advertising standards that must show the product as it is in real life.

Good luck trying to please this client, they already have an impression of the previous art work. Communication with them that illustrations are not your forte and they should show the product as the buyer sees it.


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## Derrel (May 24, 2019)

photo-realistic catalog "illustration" can look pretty good


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## Butterman (May 26, 2019)

JBPhotog said:


> As I suspected in my previous post, it looks too fake to be straight photography.
> 
> That sort of approach is not permissible in N.A., there are advertising standards that must show the product as it is in real life.
> 
> Good luck trying to please this client, they already have an impression of the previous art work. Communication with them that illustrations are not your forte and they should show the product as the buyer sees it.



Thanks dude,  I appreciate it.   We'll see, but I doubt they'll change their look to suit the skills of a still life photographer they hired vs just hiring the right person who's more heavy into graphics/illustration now that they are realizing the overwhelming majority of their website images aren't utilizing much to any actual photography.

These are two other examples of what their website images look like.   They'd probably save a lot more time just rendering these in 3D in Blender or Keyshot.











My capabilities lay in these shots below which are my work.  The toothbrush is still a work in progress, however.  I'll see if I can make this work for them but I'm not holding my breath.


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## pocketshaver (May 26, 2019)

well contrasting back ground. With the cylinders one could merely hit the numbering with a different color marker...

With what Solidworks or even Autodesk Inventor could in 2008 they need to do some work on their rendering


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## JBPhotog (May 27, 2019)

I'd say your skill level is more than enough to accomplish the task. The issue will be the actual products and do they represent what the client is advertising. I'd also consider budget, you know as do I how long it takes to do quality product work on real products. If you are happy with the budget then do what you can as long as the client understands illustration is not photography and they shouldn't expect that.


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