# How can I get good action photos indoors?



## osumisan (Sep 10, 2010)

I am shooting indoor volleyball with my Nikon D40 with Tamarac 80-300mm telephoto lens.  My problem is that even in daylight and the gym lights on, the lighting combined with the lens makes it very difficult to get clear action shots without blur.  Are there better settings for my camera or shooting techniques that will give me more better quality photos?  I have the camera set at Aperture priority mode, f-4.5, ISO 800, white balance set on incandecant lighting.  Are there any ideas out there?


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## Jef.Friday (Sep 10, 2010)

Whats your shutter speed set at?


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## orb9220 (Sep 10, 2010)

Yep one of the more difficult type shooting. You will have problems with a slower variable f-stop consumer lens like the Tamarac?. You mean _Tamron_ SP _80-300_ f3.8/5.4?

That is why sports,wildlife and weddings require the more expensive f2.8 constant f-stop lens. Also a D40 in slower with only 3 AF points and smaller dimmer viewfinder. All together makes for almost impossible situation. You can bump it up to iso 800 to help. But I suspect that won't help a lot for that type of situation.

Consumer grade cams & lenses are good starts. But I quickly learned for indoor,sports,wildlife that f2.8 zooms or primes is required.
.


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## Derrel (Sep 10, 2010)

Indoors, white balance can be a huge, huge issue, and a pre-set white balance can help a lot, most of the time, so read the manual and fuigure out how to set a white balance. Then, boost the ISO to 1600. Shoot in RAW mode, since the quality of the images will be higher. Try and pick what is called peak of action moments...like in basketball, when a player makes a jump shot, at the very top of the jump, he/she is not actually moving, and you take the shot then. When players bring the ball upcourt, dribbling, pan with them.

A slowish lens that allows you only f/4.5 is a hindrance...if the lens can allow a lower f/number, like say f/3.5 instead of f/4.5, that one additional f/stop will allow you to get  a higher shutter speed. Keep trying and practicing!


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## tirediron (Sep 10, 2010)

There really aren't any better settings.  As Orb mentioned, faster glass and bodies are about the only thing that will help.


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## Taylor510ce (Sep 10, 2010)

I just shot some volleyball for the first time the other day and had to go to 1600 with an f/2.8 lens. Given the distance to the court, I had to be zoomed all the way out most of the time on my 70-200 lens which is all I brought.  Next time I am not even bothering with the 70-200. I am going to bring my 50mm 1.4 and my 1.4xTC so that I can get a 70mm f/2 if needed. Even with the 7D though, it was hard to freeze the action without ramping the ISO. This was really my first foray into high ISO, I am not used to having so much noise in my shots. I think using the other lens combo ( while not as good of a lens as the 70-200 ) will allow me to dial back the ISO a little.


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## macdonj1 (Nov 24, 2013)

I also have a question on this same topic.  I'm shooting indoor basketball a
nd the tips above are good, thank you.  I have a Nikon D90 with a 70-300 lens 4.5.  I see to get a lot of drag especially on the hands.  I bumped my ISO up to 3600.  This one was shot a 1/100 at f4.5.  Is this the best I will get?


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## SCraig (Nov 24, 2013)

macdonj1 said:


> I also have a question on this same topic.  I'm shooting indoor basketball and the tips above are good, thank you.  I have a Nikon D90 with a 70-300 lens 4.5.  I see to get a lot of drag especially on the hands.  I bumped my ISO up to 3600.  This one was shot a 1/100 at f4.5.  Is this the best I will get?



Actually that was shot at ISO 3200, 1/100 second at f/4.5 using a D90 with a 55mm lens.  It also had -1/3 stop exposure bias set.  With a D90 at ISO 3200, yep that about the best you're going to get.  My D90 has never been good even at ISO 800 and I try to never go above ISO 400 if I can help it.  An f/2.8 lens would help but with a D90 probably not enough.


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## robbins.photo (Nov 24, 2013)

osumisan said:


> I am shooting indoor volleyball with my Nikon D40 with Tamarac 80-300mm telephoto lens.  My problem is that even in daylight and the gym lights on, the lighting combined with the lens makes it very difficult to get clear action shots without blur.  Are there better settings for my camera or shooting techniques that will give me more better quality photos?  I have the camera set at Aperture priority mode, f-4.5, ISO 800, white balance set on incandecant lighting.  Are there any ideas out there?



Keep an eye on your shutter speed - my guess is with the glass your using you will most likely have to increase your ISO in order to get shots without motion blur.  You really want a shutter speed hopefully around 500 or possibly above.  This can be difficult to achieve with the kind of apertures your lens is capable of, and most likely you'll need to increase your ISO to the point where you are going to start introducing some noise into the image, you'll have to experiment a bit to find a happy medium.  You can do something about the noise in post processing - but motion blur really can't be fixed.


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## robbins.photo (Nov 24, 2013)

macdonj1 said:


> I also have a question on this same topic.  I'm shooting indoor basketball and the tips above are good, thank you.  I have a Nikon D90 with a 70-300 lens 4.5.  I see to get a lot of drag especially on the hands.  I bumped my ISO up to 3600.  This one was shot a 1/100 at f4.5.  Is this the best I will get?



With a shutter speed of 1/100 yes, that's about as good as it gets.  One other thing you can do is try shooting in S mode rather than A mode, set the shutter speed higher and even though the images will come out darker as long as they aren't too dark you can usually fix a lot of the exposure in post.   Unfortunately shooting action in low light is about as challenging as it gets, only so much you can do without fast glass and a better sensor with higher ISO capabilities.


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## macdonj1 (Nov 24, 2013)

One more question.  Would I be better off using my 2.8 / 85 wide angle lens and shooting RAW?


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## SCraig (Nov 24, 2013)

macdonj1 said:


> One more question.  Would I be better off using my 2.8 / 85 wide angle lens and shooting RAW?



If you shoot at f/2.8 then you will lose some depth of field and your focus must be more accurate, obviously, however it will allow you to reduce the ISO 1-1/3 stops to ISO 1250 to maintain the same exposure.  On a D90 that's still pretty high but a whole lot better than ISO 3200.


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## robbins.photo (Nov 24, 2013)

SCraig said:


> macdonj1 said:
> 
> 
> > One more question.  Would I be better off using my 2.8 / 85 wide angle lens and shooting RAW?
> ...




Your always better off shooting in RAW from a post processing point of view, it will give you a lot more options than JPG will and allow you to fix exposure issues a lot easier.  Drawback of course being that you'll most likely end up with fewer frames so you'll have to work a bit on your shot timing.  One thing that can also help a lot is a faster SD card - most class 10 SD's read/write between 30 and 45 mps, but they do make cards that are faster.  I use a Sandisk Extreme Pro myself, it's read write is 95 mbs, and it makes a big difference in shooting continuous in raw mode.  They are more expensive of course but it was well worth the investment for me.

As Scraig mentioned the wider your aperture the more you can reduce your ISO, the drawback is your depth of field is shallow so you'll need to be more careful in using your focus points and consider your shot angle more.


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## KmH (Nov 24, 2013)

70 mm or so and up are all telephoto focal lengths.


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## cynicaster (Nov 25, 2013)

This article might be of interest.  Probably not the type of advice you were hoping for, but it provides some perspective on the challenges faced in this particular scenario.  

Strobist: On Assignment: Prep Basketball


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## Tailgunner (Nov 25, 2013)

cynicaster said:


> This article might be of interest.  Probably not the type of advice you were hoping for, but it provides some perspective on the challenges faced in this particular scenario.
> 
> Strobist: On Assignment: Prep Basketball



How interesting, this person is placing Strobes and remote SB's all over a gym and bleachers during a basketball game. Their braver than me. So is a flash fast enough for indoor sports?


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## robbins.photo (Nov 25, 2013)

Tailgunner said:


> cynicaster said:
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> > This article might be of interest. Probably not the type of advice you were hoping for, but it provides some perspective on the challenges faced in this particular scenario.
> ...



My guess is he's some sort of official team photographer that works with the school - you try something like that at one of my daughters games and you'd never make it through the front door with all that crap.. lol


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## Tailgunner (Nov 25, 2013)

robbins.photo said:


> Tailgunner said:
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> > cynicaster said:
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Ya, I couldn't imagine carrying all that gear to our son's basketball game. I'm doing good just to carry my D7100 & 70-200mm 2.8 lol


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## table1349 (Nov 25, 2013)

To the OP.  You may not want to hear but there is a simple formula for taking sports shots, especially indoors.  It is simple.  Fast glass, Fast glass, Fast Glass, plus a good understanding of the body you are using and the trade offs you are going to have to accept to get photos from indoors events.  

Fast glass is not cheap, but is allows you to get the required shutter speed of at least 1/250th a second to begin to freeze motion.  1/320th to 1/500th would be better.  To do this you need to shoot pretty close to if not wide open with fast glass. To do this it is going to cost money.  I shoot sports and I easily have $25,000 + tied up in bodies and lenses.  Mostly in lenses.  

For shooting you own kid you don't need to spend that much, but you will need to get away from that whole "one lens to do it all" idea.  This is photography not some J.R.R. Tolkien novel about the one ring and middle earth.  

For volleyball you would be best served with something in the 50mm to 85mm f1.8 range that is sharp and had a fast focus motor.  You might get away with a 35mm lens if the conditions are right.  I shoot Canon so I can't speak to the better Nikon lenses in that range.  The other alternative is a 70-200 f2.8.  For my tastes f2.8 is a little slow for school gyms be it Jr. High or High School.  Most are dark dungeons.  I will use a 200 mm f2 for indoor basketball and such with Division 1 colleges on a second body, but I am generally shooting shorter glass from the end I want to capture the action.  

If you can get something in that 50 to 85mm range get down on the floor court side or sit on the floor in front of the bottom bleacher.  Shot low and anticipate your shots.  For greater detail on shooting indoor sports try the search function.  There are several threads that have detailed explanations for shooting both indoors and out.


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## robbins.photo (Nov 25, 2013)

gryphonslair99 said:


> This is photography not some J.R.R. Tolkien novel about the one ring and middle earth.



Wait, so that kid with the big feet selling those $700 screw on wide angle lenses door to door.. 

Arggh.. Damn...


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## weepete (Nov 26, 2013)

Simple problem, your shutter speed is too low to capture the movvementvwithout motion blur. The simplest way to fix it is to up your shutter speed and seeing as it's kids your shooting you could probably get away with 1/250 sec or 1/320 sec, but you might need more. This'll mean you need to bump up your ISO to get a proper exposure however a grainy photograph is better than a blurry one. Noise reduction software is pretty decent at removing it in post.

I've shot a bit of basketball following my local team where I usually take my camera. In a well lit arena I can get away with the consumer grade zoom shooting at 1/800 sec @ f4.5, auto ISO (which usually ends up around the 2000-5000 mark), CWA metering, sindle focus point and AI servo mode. In the other arena they play in isn't as well lit and I'm maxed out with my ISO either on 6400 or H (12800) to get the action shots.

Of course you can bring your shutter speed down if you shoot off the action, you might get away with a slower shutter speed (but not below 1/125th) for set peices, team talks and that kinda thing which will mean you can lower your ISO a wee bit.

The thing is that the light in most gyms is awful and simply not bright enough to use even modern day consumer camera gear without flash. If you are determined you want noise free optimal picture quality pics then you're into the pro gear to get the extra performance, but that comes at a hefty price.


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## weepete (Nov 26, 2013)

I'll also add that I shoot jpegs for this kind of sports shots, raw takes longer to process and slows down your burst speed and I'd rather get a couple more frames that the little bit of extra editing headroom that RAW gives you, especially since dynamic range issues are rare under these lighting conditions.


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## centauro74 (Nov 26, 2013)

One more thing,  you should try to shoot only manual,  instead of aperture. The lighting in the gym is pretty consistent. If the clothes of the players is dark or black it can rise your ISO pretty high or lower your speed to compensent. So if you use M the camera won't go down and avoid getting blur.


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## robbins.photo (Nov 26, 2013)

Tailgunner said:


> robbins.photo said:
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> > Tailgunner said:
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Lol.. everytime I walk in I get at least a 5 minute lecture if not longer on how I am absolutely not allowed to use the flash and that should I dare even attempt it I'll be ejected from the game and then possibly marked for death.  I guess they had an incident a few years ago where some parent fired off a pretty good sized flash unit and it supposedly caused a kid to miss a free throw at a basketball game.


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## 1hawaii50 (Nov 30, 2013)

I'm in my 3rd year of shooting volleyball and basketball at my daughter's school. I started with a D7000 and Nikon 70-200VRII, and I now shoot with a D600/Nikon 70-200VRII. I've found that to stop action for junior high volleyball, you'll need around 1/500SS to stop ball movement...this is for junior high. If I'm shooting JV or varsity VB, I need 1/800 or 1/1000 to stop action...the ball moves too quickly. 1/250 will stop most body movement, but you will get motion blur in the hands/arms and ball.
For basketball, I can make do with 1/320SS for girls basketball. For the guys, I need to be upwards of 1/500SS...the guys move more quickly than the girls do. I shoot mostly at f/2.8, in manual mode. I'll switch between spot and matrix metering...depending on the sunlight coming through the windows of the home gym...My ISO's are typically anywhere from 1/2000 up to 1/6400.

Lastly, flash photography is a BIG no-no in the gyms that our teams play in...both home and away.


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## EIngerson (Nov 30, 2013)

Here's a couple from the worst lighted gym I've ever been in. Shooting with a 5D MK III and a 70-200 F4L

1/200, F4, ISO 2000



Thunder-17 by Ingerson Photo, on Flickr


1/200, F4, ISO 2000



Thunder-15 by Ingerson Photo, on Flickr



I also track the subject with the back button focus. You miss less shots that way. The normal shutter button will grab the subject, but in low light action will lose it before the shutter releases. Don't get too worried about noise, it's going to be there. Full size images look completely acceptable with it. Many times people pixel peep and get upset at the results. It's expectation management really. 

I could have used a higher ISO and froze the hands and legs also, but I'm not too worried about it. These aren't great shots, but they are acceptable in horrible conditions.


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