# What to do if your club hoards money



## BananaRepublic (Jan 1, 2018)

I joined a camera club originally, as a noob, to learn more about photography, skills, genres  etc from others and what I have since learned I have thought myself purely in an effort to out manoeuvre  others. You might turn around and tell me that thats a common theme across al clubs no matter where or how big they are.

The thing is now the club has allot of members and ergo large stash of money to go with that and for some reason I dont understand the refuse to spend it in areas where it could be spent to improve the thing overall for everybody. Yes the club organises expensive photoshop courses the cost of which the club covers 10 % of, a pure waste of money to all concerned if you ask me, but thats largely it in terms of benefits for people.  The latest fashion amongst people is to buy D750s hot off the shelves I dont know why or see the reason but there doing it and I think people will quickly get browned off when there is nobody to help them turn it on. Is it best to leave the thing fall apart or attempt to steer it someway.


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## tirediron (Jan 1, 2018)

How are the decisions to spend or not spend money made?  In the groups (non-photo related) I belong to, decisions up to $XXXX are made by the executive, and over that ceiling, by the membership as a whole.  Assuming that it's following democratic process, you have a couple of choices:  (1) Be quiet and live with it; the majority rules; or (2) seek a seat at the executive table and attempt to influence the decisions in the direction you feel best.


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## zombiesniper (Jan 1, 2018)

Without really knowing the structure of the organization and what mandate if any it may have the above is really the best advice that can be given.


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## BananaRepublic (Jan 1, 2018)

tirediron said:


> How are the decisions to spend or not spend money made?  In the groups (non-photo related) I belong to, decisions up to $XXXX are made by the executive, and over that ceiling, by the membership as a whole.  Assuming that it's following democratic process, you have a couple of choices:  (1) Be quiet and live with it; the majority rules; or (2) seek a seat at the executive table and attempt to influence the decisions in the direction you feel best.



Yes I have considered and would like a seat however:
A) I find that middle and minor positions are preallocated almost by popularity, yes there is a process of seconding and voting but this process involves a rubber stamp.
B) The key positions that of chair and treasure and others follow same process and are mostly rotated amongst that same individuals.
C) Certain people were involved in decisions and now own those and quickly move to close down changes.
D) Irish people tend not to complain until after the fact.
E) the commitee is almost entirely a talking shop.  

The ceiling on purchases was  forced up recently because the commitee where using this as an excuse not to spend on something which despite a majority being behind they have reneged on.  Following this which I was a key player I have decided not to give a crap anymore but at the same time my question at this years AGM will be what are you going to do with the monies.


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## Designer (Jan 1, 2018)

BananaRepublic said:


> Is it best to leave the thing fall apart or attempt to steer it someway.


I will guess that you're outnumbered, so to change the club, you're going to need to recruit some allies.  I think the way to get people on your side is to offer some positive direction and goals.  If you would take the time to develop a platform of new ideas that make sense, then you'll get people coming over to your point of view.  

Does your club offer scholarships to young people?  Does your club offer prizes for photo contests?  Does your club offer seminars on composition, or portraiture, for instance?  Seminars can be taught by a club member, therefore no cost to the members.  Does your club offer lighting gear to borrow?  

You can fight with the establishment, or change the establishment.


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## BananaRepublic (Jan 1, 2018)

Designer said:


> BananaRepublic said:
> 
> 
> > Is it best to leave the thing fall apart or attempt to steer it someway.
> ...



No on scholarships, 
Yes it offers prizes to contests but there is no critic on images so people aren't learning, new people aren't progressing
There was talk around skills seminars, which are needed frankly, but that idea was directed quietly down an alley and now has a hatchet in its back, I dont really know why that is.
Lights, Lights were bought using club funds, a nice set, but the idea was pushed by people who sometimes do weddings & graduations etc, not professionals, who thought " ya they'ed be handy for my gigs" and are now never available.

The thing is the majority do want changes but dont push for them especially because the club gets on socially. people travel up to 30 miles to attend the club simple because other clubs are snooty about new people and have waiting lists and look for portfolios .my reason for staying is the same as why others want to join this one.


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## SquarePeg (Jan 1, 2018)

I feel like I’ve been on both sides of this. Not photography related but I am on several boards for volunteer organizations and it’s always much easier from the outside to see lack of direction of the group or to wonder why something is not being done but when you get in and you’re working on moving the group forward toward a goal or organizing an event or workshop it’s much harder than it looks from the outside.  As a member, I would wonder well why aren’t they doing this? And why are they doing that? And then once I was on the board it became clear why we weren’t doing this and why we were doing that. Have you asked them what the reasons are? If there is a specific thing that you think sh0uld be 0ffered but isn’t, it’s best to ask the question.  

I’m not really sure where the D750 stuff comes into play here?  That is the group members spending their own money right? 

 Maybe start your own club, an offshoot of the one that you’re now with like-minded members.


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## vintagesnaps (Jan 1, 2018)

I think people have different opinions on how to spend money (and not just in a club). How do you want the money spent? If/when there are opportunities to bring up ideas/suggestions then present specific ideas of project or other uses for club funds. 

I've been an officer of a club too and ideas that are suggested aren't always feasible, but if the club leaders don't give any explanation, then ask. There may be reasons for them to be cautious with the spending. 

Whenever the club has elections again, you could think about running for an office yourself or if there's someone else you think would be good and suggest that person run. There still may be a majority choosing to keep going in the same direction so it could take a long time to see real change. Or maybe the majority of club members like it the way it is and wouldn't support much change. I don't know, I guess you have to think about if you can live with the club as is and continue to give input or if it maybe isn't for you. 


(And I'm part Irish and D explains a lot, except I don't necessarily wait til after the fact! lol)


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## BananaRepublic (Jan 1, 2018)

SquarePeg said:


> I feel like I’ve been on both sides of this. Not photography related but I am on several boards for volunteer organizations and it’s always much easier from the outside to see lack of direction of the group or to wonder why something is not being done but when you get in and you’re working on moving the group forward toward a goal or organizing an event or workshop it’s much harder than it looks from the outside.  As a member, I would wonder well why aren’t they doing this? And why are they doing that? And then once I was on the board it became clear why we weren’t doing this and why we were doing that. Have you asked them what the reasons are? If there is a specific thing that you think sh0uld be 0ffered but isn’t, it’s best to ask the question.
> 
> I’m not really sure where the D750 stuff comes into play here?  That is the group members spending their own money right?
> 
> Maybe start your own club, an offshoot of the one that you’re now with like-minded members.



I have started a club its a secret one and Im the only member, but im still in the other one.

What I was trying to string together with the d750 thing was that members are going to invest allot of money and not see the benefits, something I belive could be solved by better club initiatives.


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## BananaRepublic (Jan 1, 2018)

vintagesnaps said:


> I think people have different opinions on how to spend money (and not just in a club). How do you want the money spent? If/when there are opportunities to bring up ideas/suggestions then present specific ideas of project or other uses for club funds.
> 
> I've been an officer of a club too and ideas that are suggested aren't always feasible, but if the club leaders don't give any explanation, then ask. There may be reasons for them to be cautious with the spending.
> 
> ...


Agh to be honest I get annoyed about things because often I get asked to solve problems of there own making


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## Designer (Jan 1, 2018)

BananaRepublic said:


> I have started a club its a secret one and Im the only member, ..


Bah! Serves 'em right, I say.  Buy your entire new club a pint.


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## smoke665 (Jan 1, 2018)

To me the only reasons for being in a photography club are socializing, education and the enjoyment of photography. If those needs arent being met it might be time to look for another club or maybe start your own with other disgruntled members. Life's to short to be irritated in the pursuit of fun activities.


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## Destin (Jan 1, 2018)

smoke665 said:


> To me the only reasons for being in a photography club are socializing, education and the enjoyment of photography. If those needs arent being met it might be time to look for another club or maybe start your own with other disgruntled members. Life's to short to be irritated in the pursuit of fun activities.



This is why I’ve avoided my local photo club like the plague. They’re a lot of drama and some of the photographic advice I’ve seen them give is questionable. I just couldn’t be a part of pretending I agreed with them. This forum is the closest thing I have to a photo club.


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## zombiesniper (Jan 1, 2018)

I have to agree with Destin.

I've been asked a few times to join one the local photo clubs. All the people I like from these clubs I currently shoot with for free.  I just can't see me paying money to hang around with people I dislike and dealing with the personal politics that comes up with any such organization.

Onto the OP's dilemma. I would suggest a three staged approach.

Stage one is to observe and listen. Maybe even start the conversation ever so slightly into the direction of change that you would like amongst some of the members. At this time you are to gauge the overall willingness to change or even better desire for change.

Stage two is to assess your willingness to see thru what needs to be done (within the organizations rules......no whacking anyone the gets in the way)  in order to make change. This will be a sliding scale since the less desire for change on the part of the membership will increase the effort required by you to make it happen.

Stage three is to act. 
If you are willing to make the change. Don't try and be sneaky and backdoor the change. This will be seen as sleazy and undermine your efforts. Be upfront that you wish to do X, Y and Z. Get support from the membership if possible but do not make it look like a takeover. People generally fear both change and conflict. They can both hurt your efforts.
If you deem it not worth the amount of effort or that there is not enough of a desire for change, you are left with two options. Live with the club as is while providing what help you can and gaining what benefit you can, or leave it behind.


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## Designer (Jan 1, 2018)

My local CC meets the same day as another org. that I'm in, so I've been to only two meetings of the Photography club.  They are fairly active, but since I can't always attend, I don't participate much.  I just wish they met on a different day.


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## smoke665 (Jan 1, 2018)

I've had a few local friends express an interest in maybe forming a small club and a few that wanted to hook up for a field trip, but frankly I'm a little hesitant. When I'm in a creative mood I get serious tunnel vision, so having distractions around when I'm planning and shooting, is a major irritant. I've belonged to various other hobby oriented clubs in the past and for me it always seemed that the more formal the organization, the less productive it was. I belonged to an informal carving group under the guidance of a master carver who opened his studio to the group to come, work, watch, chat, seek help. No dues, no officers, rules, no competition, no pressure, work at your own pace, etc. If the group wanted to do something special we all chipped in. The amount of knowledge I gleaned on carving from that group was astonishing.  Another wood turning group that I belonged to for awhile got so involved in the rules, regulations, and organization that they quickly forgot about just having fun at a hobby.


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## BrentC (Jan 1, 2018)

I went to the local photo club once when I first started out hoping to learn and meet like minded people.  When I mentioned to a few people that I shoot wildlife and used M43 they kinda turned their noses up at me, one guy actually snorted and walked away.   Never went back.


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## Destin (Jan 1, 2018)

BrentC said:


> I went to the local photo club once when I first started out hoping to learn and meet like minded people.  When I mentioned to a few people that I shoot wildlife and used M43 they kinda turned their noses up at me, one guy actually snorted and walked away.   Never went back.



Sounds similar to my local club. I showed them a few landscapes and they snubbed me because they were shot on my D7100, which wasn’t full frame, and according to them was incapable of making professional images. 

I never went back.


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## Derrel (Jan 1, 2018)

BananaRepublic said:
			
		

> SNIP>>>>Is it best to leave the thing fall apart or attempt to steer it someway.



Try this tongue-twister:

*Oh,how I wonder, how much keg beer,
could the club's slush fund fund,
if indeed the slush fund
could fund fun?*


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## dennybeall (Jan 1, 2018)

What is it about camera clubs? There is one here in Citrus County and it's purely a clique that allows others to come to the meetings and praise their great photography skills. They start the meetings with no intros (they all know each other so why bother) and no agenda (they know what it will be so no problem).
Don't get me wrong, there is some good photography that comes out of there, they just fail as a club.
Only the IN-Crowd knows if they hoard money or not.


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## SquarePeg (Jan 1, 2018)

I am not in a photo club.  I am in several photo meet up groups. The ones I’m in are free although there are some groups around that charge a small fee.  The groups organize photo outings and social meet ups on meetup.com.   The photo outings I attend if it’s somewhere that I don’t want to go by myself, like sunrise down by the pier in Boston or a nighttime shoot under the zakim bridge.   There are photographers of all different levels at these meet ups and the more experienced ones are usually willing to help anybody who is looking to learn.  I have not experienced any gear snobbery.  There have even been some iPhone shooters at one of the photo walks.  

Photos get posted on the website after the meet ups for the group and critique can be asked for and given online.  Sometimes workshops will be offered at a group rate via one of the members. Because there is no membership dues, there is no expectation that anything be provided for free    

My main issue with these groups is that they are large. someone will plan an outing and 75 people RSVP that they are attending. Usually half that will actually show up.  That’s still a bit too big of a crowd for me!

Most of these groups meet or plan and event at least once per month. Not sure if meetup website works in Ireland but if it does you could easily start your ow group.


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## AlanKlein (Jan 1, 2018)

Why don't you bring up your suggestions and thoughts at the business meetings?


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## Designer (Jan 2, 2018)

Speaking of website; my local CC has a website, but they don't use it.  Calendar is never updated, meeting places change, but are not announced, special events are not promoted, and one is required to hunt around for any contact information.  

I guess if I wanted to know any of that, I should have attended the last meeting.


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## petrochemist (Jan 2, 2018)

I'm the treasurer of our local photography workshop, so I guess if we're hoarding funds it's my fault. Members have occasionally referred to the club funds as my holiday fund. (somehow I don't feel I can justify this expenditure unless a larger majority of the group authorize it)
There are a number of regular outgoings that members may not be aware off. As well as the obvious Hall rent, we have insurance, affiliation fees, exhibition fees...
All the members of our workshop are considered members of the steering group, so if any have suggestions on expenditure they'll be considered & for cheaper items such as props etc. generally purchased (or reimbursed) without any debate.

From memory our float is somewhere around £1000 to £1500, which should be comfortably enough to replace the clubs aging laptop & projector if required, but isn't a huge amount IMO.

The word is that we will be having twice our usual space at our biggest exhibition this summer, which could leave us rather short on awnings & display boards. If I'm not mistaken the display boards alone could easily use our float several times over.


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## 480sparky (Jan 2, 2018)

If you're getting what you want out of your membership in the organization, then don't worry about it.  If you aren't, don't bother with them any more.... go elsewhere and just let your membership expire.

There's a couple photo-related organizations in my neck of the woods.  The closest, however, I've heard is very elite and closed-minded.

The closest I get to an actual organized 'club' is an informal gathering every Saturday morning at the local brick-n-mortar camera store.  Local shutterbugs gather and just discuss whatever comes up. No dues, no memberships, no minutes, no officers, no money.


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## dennybeall (Jan 2, 2018)

The elitist attitude seems to also cause the thought that the money is not being handled well. When the meeting starts the Treasurer Report is either skipped or the bottom line is stated and a quick motion to accept is done.
If the full report is presented and all understand, then questions of impropriety don't arise.  Could be problems with choices made but it's all in the open.


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## BananaRepublic (Jan 4, 2018)

dennybeall said:


> The elitist attitude seems to also cause the thought that the money is not being handled well. When the meeting starts the Treasurer Report is either skipped or the bottom line is stated and a quick motion to accept is done.
> If the full report is presented and all understand, then questions of impropriety don't arise.  Could be problems with choices made but it's all in the open.




Yes its all above board, theres nobody trousering anything but every year the is a surplus of between 6 and 8 Gs. Now that might be small compared to clubs people here are familiar with but with if you factor in some sort of cushion for major emergencies, say half than there still a handy sum to invest in things.

Its not being spent badly its just not being spent.


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