# Business Card - Thoughts?



## DGMPhotography (Sep 3, 2012)

Hello all,

I have already ordered these, so I hope they're okay. What do you think?


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## Kolander (Sep 3, 2012)

Cute design, I like the picture. But too many words, I think -"and much more" on a business card... hum, it reminds me of "Cheap!" and "BARGAIN" ads.


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## texkam (Sep 3, 2012)

The usual "try to pack everything on a card" stuff.


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## Tee (Sep 3, 2012)

How many did you order?  What type of photography are you hoping to be hired for?  You have tumblr and FB but no personal website.  Next time do a search for what makes a business card memorable.  If I run across the link in the morning, I'll post it for you.


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## Jaemie (Sep 3, 2012)

You note "Logo/Ad Design" among your services, yet you have no logo on your business card and the design is ho-hum basic business card style. You're not going to attract design customers with this level of design skill.
Putting "Proprietor" below your name sounds a little pompous. Everyone already knows the DGM is you.
If you are going to put a photo on the card, put your BEST work that suits a business card. That alternating blue-gray mountain scene might be great for a kayak rental company in Iceland, but it looks weird for a photography professional in Virginia.
As already mentioned, get a real website and display it alone - no tumblr/facebook.

Why ask our opinions if you've already ordered the cards?


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## Psytrox (Sep 3, 2012)

I'd reccomend that you get a privat domain, and get an email with the same domain (not gmail)


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## davisphotos (Sep 3, 2012)

All great points above-Jaemie is right on. It is definitely too busy. I do kind of like the idea of an appointment time on the back. I will admit I used to have a card kind of like this, where i listed all the kinds of photography I did, had my AIM name, MySpace, everything under the sun, plus a photo. I have since gotten much simpler, just my logo, business name, phone, e-mail and website.
From a design perspective, all the jagged lines on the text really bug me, as does the mish-mash of font faces. Also, the small caps has reduced the baseline of the number 7 in your business name, so it's hanging out halfway in the row below.


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## tirediron (Sep 3, 2012)

All the key points are already noted with respect to the design.  I would bin this, and go to a professional printer (you know, like we expect people to come to professional photographers) and have them help you with this.  I started out with an idea like yours, and when I went to see a friend of mine who runs a printing shop, she helped me sort it out (after she finished laughing), and I wound up with a very plain card with my logo, name and contact information.  At a recent business seminar I attended, I received a number of compliements on the clean, simple, and easy-to-read design of my cards.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Sep 3, 2012)

Cart before the horse.


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## Tamgerine (Sep 3, 2012)

I'm a bit hesitant to offer advice when you've already ordered them, but oh well. As others said, it is very busy and you have way too many things on there.

The main thing is where do you want your clients to go? Your FB? Your Tumblr? You want them to e-mail you? You want them to call you? That's too many things for them to do. You need to funnel your customers to where YOU want them the most. The opening of your funnel catches your customers - and you can make that funnel as big as you want i.e.: store displays, websites, direct mail marketing, word of mouth, but your funnel has to go somewhere solid.

I funnel all of my customers through my website. I have a local display and business cards where they have one thing on them, my website. I do this because once they go to my website they know what kind of work I do, my style, my policies, my pricing, and common questions about my work, before they ever try and contact me. It eliminates the issue of a million different customers from a million different places who all know different things, or nothing, about me. Saves me from having to explain it to everyone.

Also, I see in the middle it says free business card, so I'm inclined to say you just used one of those free websites that has templates on it? If so, I'd be concerned if that photo was just a stock photo and not yours. Not accusing, but for a photography business people would assume that is your photo, and you don't want to give that impression if it isn't.


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## amolitor (Sep 3, 2012)

tirediron, you're a fine fellow when you're not moderating me (when, of course, you are pure unadulterated evil and also fat), but I'm not sure that getting props at a business seminar is necessarily going to translate to business!

The original card looks like the kind that get left in little piles at the coffeeshop or wherever. They're kind of mini-flyers, and I feel like being packed with info and colorful is a good thing for a flyer. As a handout, they're not going to be as good, since they're probably going to conflict with the in-person impression you're giving. I'm not a marketing expert by any means, but I've audited the course.

I wouldn't trash these, I'd think about where I can leave little stacks of them around, though, and get a new design as an in-office and in-person handout.

In fact, you might pull together a couple different designs to leave behind in little piles, with different email addresses/phone numbers, to see which ones generate the most business in your area. Local tastes do vary.


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## rexbobcat (Sep 3, 2012)

I think the image you chose isn't good for graphic  design layout. 

All the info is there but I think you should change the image.


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## tirediron (Sep 3, 2012)

amolitor said:


> tirediron, you're a fine fellow when you're not moderating me (when, of course, you are pure unadulterated evil and also fat)


 


amolitor said:


> ...I'm not sure that getting props at a business seminar is necessarily going to translate to business!


Hard to say; my point was that both a professional printer and people who were in the business of teaching business (at a fairly high level normally) agreed that simple was better.  I find it rather hypocritical that we (for the most part) advocate the use of professional photographers for their skill and knowledge, but then decide that when it comes to a business card (still a VERY important aspect of your business in many ways) assume that there's nothing to it and will just grab some free template.



amolitor said:


> The original card looks like the kind that get left in little piles at the coffeeshop or wherever. They're kind of mini-flyers, and I feel like being packed with info and colorful is a good thing for a flyer...I wouldn't trash these, I'd think about where I can leave little stacks of them around, though, and get a new design as an in-office and in-person handout.


I'm still of the 'simpler is better' school of thought, and while I've never seen this done with cards, it is rather a good idea!


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## orljustin (Sep 3, 2012)

Agree with the others.  Too many font sizes and shapes.  Too many places to go (I'm not even sure what to do with that Facebook line).  A free email.  You're the "proprietor"?  What, are you selling soap and pickles in a general store?  What's the back?  Is this an appointment card you give to people after they come to you, or is this something to hand out.

I'd keep working...


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## Derrel (Sep 3, 2012)

These days everybody is a graphic designer. These days everybody is a photographer. These days everybody is an advertising copywriter. These days everybody is a proprietor. These days everybody is a photo editor. These days everybody is a photo retoucher. These days anybody can design business cards at ye olde family PC. This card seems very appropriate for the era in which it was designed for.


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## KmH (Sep 3, 2012)

K.I.S.S. :thumbup:

"Less is more".

"Sell the sizzle, not the steak."

I would not use a colon (DGM 7 or anything else - DGM 7 Photography & Design (no s).
Logo/Ad/Custom Design.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Sep 3, 2012)

as long as it matches the background on the FB page it should be a hit and gain you droves of business opportunities


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## xyphoto (Sep 3, 2012)

Like everyone suggested, keep it simple. It's your work that will attract clients. Focus on your skills development.


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## jowensphoto (Sep 3, 2012)

Jaemie said:


> You note "Logo/Ad Design" among your services, yet you have no logo on your business card and the design is ho-hum basic business card style. You're not going to attract design customers with this level of design skill.
> Putting "Proprietor" below your name sounds a little pompous. Everyone already knows the DGM is you.
> *If you are going to put a photo on the card, put your BEST work that suits a business card. That alternating blue-gray mountain scene might be great for a kayak rental company in Iceland, but it looks weird for a photography professional in Virginia.*
> As already mentioned, get a real website and display it alone - no tumblr/facebook.
> ...



Funny enough, that's the only part that made _some _sense to me, but only because I'm in VA. I think OP was trying to play off the Blue Ridge mountains, but it's worth noting they look nothing like this.


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## PhotoWrangler (Sep 3, 2012)

Why don't your learn how to shoot properly before ordering business cards?


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## HughGuessWho (Sep 3, 2012)

Psytrox said:
			
		

> I'd reccomend that you get a privat domain, and get an email with the same domain (not gmail)



I second that. One sure way to look like an amateur is to have a gmail, yahoo or hotmail email address. Even if you don't have a website you can shop around and just get a domain for you email address for a few bucks per month.


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## CCericola (Sep 3, 2012)

The typography does not show that you are a professional designer. Revisit your basic design principals and re-design


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## Tee (Sep 3, 2012)

You can set up a google email account that will look professional to the sender.  I.e., daryll@dgmphotography.com.  The only difference is you sign into google.  Look it up.


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## amolitor (Sep 3, 2012)

Tee said:


> You can set up a google email account that will look professional to the sender.  I.e., daryll@dgmphotography.com.  The only difference is you sign into google.  Look it up.



You still need to buy the domain name. Google will happily handle your email for you, there are step-by-step instructions out there that were easy for me to follow.


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## cgipson1 (Sep 3, 2012)

ChristopherCoy said:


> Why don't your learn how to shoot properly before ordering business cards?



Hahaha... I wrote the same exact thing earlier... but deleted it, as I know the OP won't listen!


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## j28Photography (Sep 3, 2012)

Cancel the order, get your money back and re-do them with all of the above advice utilized.


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## janineh (Sep 3, 2012)

They look like a vistaprint template! Not very nice! Sorry, the others are right. Simple design, minimum info. Try again!!


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## DGMPhotography (Sep 3, 2012)

Hello, thanks for the advice guys. I wish I posted before I ordered them - they are indeed VistaPrint... dangit, I wish I had done the stuff you guys said. I agree, simpler is better, and I've been doing that with my logo and stuff, I can't believe I totally disregarded that fact in regards to my business card, and I'm a business major. Well at least now I know, and this can be a learning experience - as an amateur, I think these will be fine, but I suppose may not get me much business. DARNIT! I knew I should have posted here first.


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## DGMPhotography (Sep 3, 2012)

Too late now, but is this better?


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## Majeed Badizadegan (Sep 3, 2012)

DGMPhotography said:


> Too late now, but is this better?



I know this thread _seems _to be about the business card, but at it's root I see people here suggesting that you improve your craft before worrying about the business card aspect. 

Go shoot some photos, post them here for criticism, read, study, consume, practice, learn, get better... At some point down the road, worry about business cards.


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## DGMPhotography (Sep 3, 2012)

Rotanimod said:


> DGMPhotography said:
> 
> 
> > Too late now, but is this better?
> ...



Enough with that! I'm sorry - I appreciate your comment, but that's not what I'm asking. I KNOW I need to get better at my craft first, I just wanted to make a business card and nothing is wrong with that.


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## Heitz (Sep 3, 2012)

It would be awesome if someone went totally out of the box in designing business cards.  Like one that was a triangle or a circle instead of a rectangle.  or maybe one printed in the medium of graham cracker so that its edible.  "Well, he's not the best photographer but his business cards are to DIE for!"  </sarcasm>


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## Tee (Sep 3, 2012)

DGMPhotography said:


> Too late now, but is this better?



Yes.  It's better.  You should think about your quality of card stock as well.  Don't go for the cheap stuff.  I saw a business card the other day that was a thin flexible clear plastic.  He got it from Moringprint Cards (I think).  It was such a simple design but it had appeal and was memorable.      



			
				DGM said:
			
		

> I think these will be fine, but I suppose may not get me much business. DARNIT!



I think building a solid portfolio and being proficient is a better start at gaining business.


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## Jaemie (Sep 3, 2012)

I've received some highly unusual cards. A Finnish logging exec gave me a card printed on paper-thin wood. Another person gave me one printed on metal. Several on chrome and gold painted paper. Some in over- and under-sized dimensions. The problem is they always feel more gimmicky than professional. I mean, I love the card, but it doesn't make me regard the bearer any more highly.


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## Tee (Sep 3, 2012)

100 (Really) Creative Business Cards | Webdesigner Depot  Check out the photography card.  This oughta get your creative juices going.  If you go 8 images down, you'll see an example of the plastic card I recently saw.


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## Sw1tchFX (Sep 4, 2012)

A bit wordy..


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## DGMPhotography (Sep 4, 2012)

Okay, this is my last attempt for now at making you guys happy, and trying to get better. I even came up with a logo, please don't hate me.


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## Jaemie (Sep 4, 2012)

Much cleaner.  

I'd just consider writing "Richmond, Virginia" and putting it all on the same line. It looks more normal, and gives you even lines for name/location and phone/email. Then, drop both sets of text down to the bottom of the frame.


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## charlie76 (Sep 4, 2012)

Looks like richmond VA are listed as two different places. I suggest putting it on one line with a comma...two lines not needed for two words


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## janineh (Sep 4, 2012)

DGMPhotography said:
			
		

> Too late now, but is this better?



Too much empty space in the middle. Maybe move your name and email down a bit. Vistaprint again. Had a similar design last year. Their printing quality is not that great! Try moo.com


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## amolitor (Sep 4, 2012)

Wait, wait, is it "learn how to run a business before you start a business" or is it "learn your craft before you start a business"?


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## cgipson1 (Sep 4, 2012)

amolitor said:


> Wait, wait, is it "learn how to run a business before you start a business" or is it "learn your craft before you start a business"?



Should be both!! In this case, it is neither!


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## 2WheelPhoto (Sep 4, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> amolitor said:
> 
> 
> > Wait, wait, is it "learn how to run a business before you start a business" or is it "learn your craft before you start a business"?
> ...



Whats odd?  Business card, FB page, and huge watermark comes LONG before figuring out the business or how to shoot professionally


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## tirediron (Sep 4, 2012)

OP, I will again say:  You want a professional looking product, go to a professional designer.


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## pixmedic (Sep 4, 2012)

tirediron said:


> OP, I will again say:  You want a professional looking product, go to a professional designer.



wheres Aaron? that guy is crazy good with design. maybe he could work out a good deal for a fellow TPF'er


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## manaheim (Sep 4, 2012)

tirediron said:


> OP, I will again say:  You want a professional looking product, go to a professional designer.



This.

Here, wait... let me do it again for emphasis.



tirediron said:


> OP, I will again say:  You want a professional looking product, go to a professional designer.



This.


Note that going to a pro for a business card doesn't have to be a super expensive proposition.  You can even go to a local college and speak to the design professors and see if they would recommend any of the kids for some freelance work. Some colleges do this as part of their program, even.  It's usually quite affordable and you have some really talented kids in these schools.

There are also other avenues... you can stumble across people all over the place (even on this forum) that might be willing to do something for you for cheap, or even pro bono just to be nice.  (don't expact too much here, but it might be an option)

There's also micro-outsourcing, but I hate doing that.

It's worth spending the money... and honestly, I don't think it generally costs THAT much to have something designed.  

In the end this is one of those "spend money to make money" things.  If you have business cards that scream "I designed and printed these myself!" you're basically only going to get clients who would spend equally small amounts of money on professional services (such as photography).

I paid to have mine designed, and then paid decent money to get some REALLY nice cards printed and I get a real reaction from people when I give them a card.  (Jaemie, those snazzy materials are intended to make an impact, make you remember the person, and even keep the card just to show other people, and it does work for most people)


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## Tee (Sep 4, 2012)

Nice card Manaheim.  2 thumbs up. I'm on mobile and cant find like button.


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## manaheim (Sep 4, 2012)

Tee said:


> Nice card Manaheim.  2 thumbs up. I'm on mobile and cant find like button.



Thank ye.   I'm quite fond of them myself.   Plus I love the halloween colors.


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## tirediron (Sep 4, 2012)

Great cards Chris!


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## KmH (Sep 4, 2012)

Look at the size of the business name on Christopher's card.

The business name should dominate the card, which is a basic graphical art concept.

Principles of Design | The Big Picture Overview


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## DGMPhotography (Sep 4, 2012)

Well I'm guessing I'm going to have to make a new account on here. I have not even argued this time and you guys are making fun of me. Learn your craft before your business. I am a business student, so naturally, I am going to enjoy the business side of things - there is NO RULE in some Holy Rulebook of Photography Business that states you can't do it in any order you want. Stop insulting me, and start offering useful advice. For those who have, thank you - I really appreciate it.


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## DGMPhotography (Sep 4, 2012)

BTW.... GOOD NEWS! I talked to a rep at VistaPrint, and they were able to cancel my order and give me credit. I will use that towards getting a premium card instead, where you can upload your own designs. If anyone would like to make a card for me.. for free... I would love you forever, because it seems like I'm just not meant to do it


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## pixmedic (Sep 4, 2012)

DGMPhotography said:


> Well I'm guessing I'm going to have to make a new account on here. I have not even argued this time and you guys are making fun of me. Learn your craft before your business. I am a business student, so naturally, I am going to enjoy the business side of things - there is NO RULE in some Holy Rulebook of Photography Business that states you can't do it in any order you want. Stop insulting me, and start offering useful advice. For those who have, thank you - I really appreciate it.



don't worry about it. plenty of people here have gotten into some crazy threads with some pretty crazy stuff said. you get over it, they get over it, we all get over it and move it..except for those people that have elephant like memories and are able to dig up your posts and quotes from 6 years back..
other than that though...don't worry about it.


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## tirediron (Sep 4, 2012)

DGMPhotography said:


> Well I'm guessing I'm going to have to make a new account on here. I have not even argued this time and you guys are making fun of me. Learn your craft before your business. I am a business student, so naturally, I am going to enjoy the business side of things - there is NO RULE in some Holy Rulebook of Photography Business that states you can't do it in any order you want. Stop insulting me, and start offering useful advice. For those who have, thank you - I really appreciate it.


You're missing the point entirely my friend.  No one was insulting you; granted perhaps a few comments could have been phrased a little more politely, but at the end of the day, you were getting some very constructive feedback from some very experienced people.  Yes it stings a little bit when you put a lot of effort into a product and think you've come up with the greatest thing since sliced bread, only to have it torn apart by others, but at the end of the day, our experience tells us that your design was probably not the best.

No, you're right, there is no holy rule book, but again, it's experience talking and again, it might sting a little , but it is meant to help.


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## pixmedic (Sep 4, 2012)

[/QUOTE]You're missing the point entirely my friend.  No one was insulting you; granted perhaps a few comments could have been phrased a little more politely, but at the end of the day, you were getting some very constructive feedback from some very experienced people.  Yes it stings a little bit when you put a lot of effort into a product and think you've come up with the greatest thing since sliced bread, only to have it torn apart by others, but at the end of the day, our experience tells us that your design was probably not the best.

No, you're right, there is no holy rule book, but again, it's experience talking and again, it might sting a little , but it is meant to help.[/QUOTE]

constructive eh...


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## Jaemie (Sep 4, 2012)

DGMPhotography said:


> If anyone would like to make a card for me.. for free... I would love you forever, because it seems like I'm just not meant to do it



I've taken numerous art courses including commercial design, lettering, history of industrial design, and advertising art, to name a few that might apply to designing a business card, but I do not feel the least bit qualified to design anyone's anything. I switched majors, got a different degree, and never worked as a designer. 

You really should consider the services of an experienced professional whose work you admire. Just be careful, because there are some people advertising themselves as design professionals who struggle to design a business card.  (ouch!)

Sorry dude, I couldn't resist. But you see the irony, right? I think that's where a lot of the jabs in this thread are coming from. Just some hopefully helpful criticism to think about.


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## Tamgerine (Sep 4, 2012)

DGMPhotography said:


> BTW.... GOOD NEWS! I talked to a rep at VistaPrint, and they were able to cancel my order and give me credit. I will use that towards getting a premium card instead, where you can upload your own designs. If anyone would like to make a card for me.. for free... I would love you forever, because it seems like I'm just not meant to do it



Will you retouch all the photos from my last session? For free, of course. I'll love you forever, I promise.


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## Superfitz (Sep 4, 2012)

Who cares what everyone thinks. No matter what you do people are always going to try and push you down. Keep on keepn' on. Life is a garden, dig it. Don't worry about the negative. You do what you want to do. Don't rely on someone to design it for you. It is your card not theirs. Everyone has to start somewhere. Later if you feel you need a change, then make new ones. You have gotten a lot of good information for free. Granted most of it was in a snarky manner, but you get what you pay for.


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## rexbobcat (Sep 4, 2012)

Superfitz said:
			
		

> Who cares what everyone thinks. No matter what you do people are always going to try and push you down. Keep on keepn' on. Life is a garden, dig it. Don't worry about the negative. You do what you want to do. Don't rely on someone to design it for you. It is your card not theirs. Everyone has to start somewhere. Later if you feel you need a change, then make new ones. You have gotten a lot of good information for free. Granted most of it was in a snarky manner, but you get what you pay for.



Well obviously if you want to run a successful  business you should care what other people think.


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## DGMPhotography (Sep 4, 2012)

Tamgerine said:


> DGMPhotography said:
> 
> 
> > BTW.... GOOD NEWS! I talked to a rep at VistaPrint, and they were able to cancel my order and give me credit. I will use that towards getting a premium card instead, where you can upload your own designs. If anyone would like to make a card for me.. for free... I would love you forever, because it seems like I'm just not meant to do it
> ...



Sure, I would love to! I don't know if you're being sarcastic, but really I would - would be good experience


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## cgipson1 (Sep 4, 2012)

DGMPhotography said:


> Tamgerine said:
> 
> 
> > DGMPhotography said:
> ...



Tamgerine.. the accepted Sarcasm Font is *Comic Sans*, and sometimes you have to use it to get the point across!


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## Superfitz (Sep 4, 2012)

rexbobcat said:
			
		

> Well obviously if you want to run a successful  business you should care what other people think.



Nah...that isn't true


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## DGMPhotography (Sep 4, 2012)

Don't worry, I got the point. I just don't like the insults made at me, just because of how I've responded in threads before. I'm trying to change my difficult ways, and some of you guys aren't making it easy on me.


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## rexbobcat (Sep 4, 2012)

Superfitz said:
			
		

> Nah...that isn't true



I...don't understand your conclusion...

Either you give a quality service or you are a really good person to work with.

Businesses are run based on the opinions of the consumers.

Bad opinions = bad sales.

That is unless you have some kind of monopoly on a product. Then consumers have no choice.


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## Superfitz (Sep 4, 2012)

Many businesses are ran not caring what the general public thinks. The business does what it wants to do and they are successful.


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## rexbobcat (Sep 4, 2012)

Superfitz said:
			
		

> Many businesses are ran not caring what the general public thinks. The business does what it wants to do and they are successful.



Successful....because consumers have a good enough opinion to keep buying the product.

Saying f-u to everyone is fine if your product backs it up. 

Yes, opinions. Opinions everywhere.


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## cgipson1 (Sep 4, 2012)

Superfitz said:


> Many businesses are ran not caring what the general public thinks. The business does what it wants to do and they are successful.



Sure.. you mean like ENRON?


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## tirediron (Sep 4, 2012)

Superfitz said:


> Many businesses are ran not caring what the general public thinks. The business does what it wants to do and they are successful.


Monopolies or near-monopolies (Microsoft) can run on that business model.  Businesses providing an essential service or product (Utility companies, medical service providers) can sometimes run on that business model.  An entrepreneur running a one-person business in a saturated market cannot.


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## Superfitz (Sep 4, 2012)

rexbobcat said:
			
		

> Successful....because consumers have a good enough opinion to keep buying the product.
> 
> Saying f-u to everyone is fine if your product backs it up.
> 
> Yes, opinions. Opinions everywhere.



Maybe the OP is a photographic savant where the general public won't be able to stay away from his/her photography regardless of what the business cards look like.


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## cgipson1 (Sep 4, 2012)

Superfitz said:


> rexbobcat said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Maybe I am the lost Rockefeller heir!


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## amolitor (Sep 4, 2012)

All that said, there is a lot to be said for pleasing yourself first.

This is a purely psychological fact which ties the "customer is always right" philosophy together with the "do what you want" philosophy without contradictions: If you're doing something you like, and pleasing yourself, you are probably doing a better job than if you are doing something you dislike. You will project a much better attitude, you will be a lot more pleasant to do business with. You will be more willing to go that extra mile for the customer.

You must, of course, balance these things. If you love photography but hate shooting weddings, don't go in to weddings anyways because that's where the money is. Find something, if possible, that will make some money -- not as much perhaps, but enough -- that you love doing with your camera. If you hate shooting weddings, it will be much harder to become a great wedding photographer and command high prices. Maybe you'll be the world's best product photographer, though, because you really love shooting things that don't talk back while you're fooling with the lights.


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## tirediron (Sep 4, 2012)

*I'm guessing we've squeezed every drop of use out of this thread.  

OP:  Put some thought into your cards and when you come up with another design (or any other question) please feel free to start a new thread.*


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