# A brave Model



## JustJazzie (Jan 20, 2014)

My model has been brave enough to let me post these for a c&c. She wasn't happy with some of the shots, but she hasn't elaborated as to why yet. I was using new strobes, and a new editing program so be truthful, but nice please! this is IMO the "best" and the "worst" that I sent her. I have more from the shoot, but I know most of the time people get scolded for posting too many, so I will hold myself back.

The red cast difference was me trying to pull some red tones our of her skin, but one photo didn't need it as much.

the beautiful watermark is added at the request of my model. ;-)


----------



## Derrel (Jan 20, 2014)

I dunno...not great, not horrible. She looks good, figure and face-wise...many women would kill to have that kind of body...she has pretty hair, big eyes...I dunno, I find these generally pleasant to look at. I have seen MUCH worse, and more-awkward boudoir stuff here and elsewhere. I have no idea what it is that she expected or wants; perhaps a high degree of airbrushed perfection, as is seen so,so often these days on the web and in catalogs and magazines?


----------



## tecboy (Jan 20, 2014)

You should put the watermark in the lower right hand corner.  Photo 2, the cropping is too tight on left and right sides.  Photo 3, the top side is cropped too tight.


----------



## JustJazzie (Jan 20, 2014)

tecboy said:


> You should put the watermark in the lower right hand corner.  Photo 2, the cropping is too tight on left and right sides.  Photo 3, the top side is cropped too tight.



I won't be moving the watermark. If I make it small and in the corner it's too easily cropped out. She specifically requested a larger watermark when I asked if I could post for critique.

As for cropping, I insisted on using my 50mm in a small space since it's my sharpest lens. I might have to make a sacrifice when we try again and use my 18-200z


----------



## JustJazzie (Jan 20, 2014)

Derrel said:


> I dunno...not great, not horrible. She looks good, figure and face-wise...many women would kill to have that kind of body...she has pretty hair, big eyes...I dunno, I find these generally pleasant to look at. I have seen MUCH worse, and more-awkward boudoir stuff here and elsewhere. I have no idea what it is that she expected or wants; perhaps a high degree of airbrushed perfection, as is seen so,so often these days on the web and in catalogs and magazines?[/QUOTE ]
> 
> Come on Derrel! You've gotta have better than "I've seen worse!" What can I improve on??


----------



## wyogirl (Jan 20, 2014)

First off, they aren't bad but again, they aren't OMG either.  
Second, any woman getting these kinds of photos taken will have some she doesn't like and it will likely have more to do with her own body issues than your photography.
For the first pic, I would like to see the exposure bumped just a hair.
Now, just a recommendation for the next time...  Her hair and makeup are just ok.  Think of boudoir as "glamour shots".  If she truly wants these pics to make her look fab, the model will have a pro do her hair and makeup.  It will make ALL the difference in the end result.


----------



## wyogirl (Jan 20, 2014)

Also, lets me real... her "outfit" isn't nearly sexy enough.  I've seen teenagers wear less clothes in public.  Also props like long strands of pearls, high heels etc help make these types of shots "more".


----------



## Derrel (Jan 20, 2014)

Again, these three are supposed to be the best and the worst...hmmm...well, the second and the last are okay shots. Maybe process them with more pizzaz? I really do not know....maybe add some "processing effects"? I'm not honestly sure what I would do, except perhaps refine the way the "light" looks, like in the second shot; it needs more fill, in my opinion. On the last shot, it could use a bit more space above the top of her head, and the processing could be "refined" let's call it, for a more sophisticated look.


----------



## JustJazzie (Jan 20, 2014)

wyogirl said:


> Also, lets me real... her "outfit" isn't nearly sexy enough.  I've seen teenagers wear less clothes in public.  Also props like long strands of pearls, high heels etc help make these types of shots "more".



This was just a "mini" practice session, and honestly had she been wearing less I wouldn't have asked her if I could post them online....

My focus in these shots, and what I'm generally asking for critique on is lighting/posing/editing.


----------



## JustJazzie (Jan 20, 2014)

Derrel said:


> Again, these three are supposed to be the best and the worst...hmmm...well, the second and the last are okay shots. Maybe process them with more pizzaz? I really do not know....maybe add some "processing effects"? I'm not honestly sure what I would do, except perhaps refine the way the "light" looks, like in the second shot; it needs more fill, in my opinion. On the last shot, it could use a bit more space above the top of her head, and the processing could be "refined" let's call it, for a more sophisticated look.



Thanks for the feedback! I will take it into my next shoot.


----------



## limr (Jan 20, 2014)

I like the first one the best. The pose, lighting, and facial expression all work. The third one is nice, too, although she looks a bit stiff.

The second one is my least favorite. The lighting is too uneven and the look on her face suggests impatience. Her body is again a bit stiff, like she's worried more about hiding something she doesn't like about her body. This might be true, but the trick is to make it look like she's highlighting what she really likes about her body rather than hiding or disguising something she doesn't like. I think her legs could be stretched out further, for example.

I also think it would help to make the setting a little less 'bedroom' and a bit more 'boudoir' if that makes any sense. Maybe an unmade bed, rumpled sheets, more pillows strewn around...to suggest that a little somethin'-somethin' has already recently happened and she's looking to have it happen again


----------



## Parker219 (Jan 20, 2014)

OP- Are your photos okay to edit? You should update your settings to reflect your preference.


----------



## JustJazzie (Jan 20, 2014)

Parker219 said:


> OP- Are your photos okay to edit? You should update your settings to reflect your preference.


  I would prefer these not be edited thanks.

But if you have a suggestion for somethig I should try, let me know.


----------



## Trblmkr (Jan 20, 2014)

I think the pictures themselves are fine, the problem is she probably did her own hair and make up.  As suggested, get a pro to come in and help her come up with a new look.  My guess she's looking for the "wow" and that's not going to happen with her doing her own make up.  You have to remember when you're taking pictures of women, they are comparing themselves to everything they see on tv/magazine covers.  So you have to live up to that exaggerated type of photography.


----------



## cynicaster (Jan 20, 2014)

I think the shots are OK, but they lack that elusive impact, or &#8220;wow factor&#8221;. 

It looks like an attractive lady had 15 minutes to spare so she slipped on her nighty and posed for some photos on some drab neutral-colored bedding she bought at Wal-Mart.  The model is sexy enough, but she needs to put on some nice makeup and lay down on some silky red sheets, or, generally speaking, something more exaggerated and suggestive of &#8220;fantasy&#8221;. 

To be clear, I don&#8217;t mean to insult the model&#8217;s makeup or the décor of that bedroom&#8212;as both are just fine for the real world&#8212;I&#8217;m simply making the point that the humdrum of the real world is probably not what you want to capture in photos like these.    

Lastly, the model is probably used to seeing &#8220;sexy&#8221; photos that are airbrushed and liquefied 6 ways from Sunday, so don&#8217;t be afraid to give her face a touch of the ol&#8217; plastic skin treatment. 

I&#8217;m not a connoisseur of this type of photography by any means, so you may want to take these comments with a grain of salt.


----------



## JustJazzie (Jan 20, 2014)

I wish hiring a professional makeup artist was a possibility but it's just not. Perhaps we can at least watch some foot YouTube videos on glamor hair and makeup and get semi close. 

I'll ditch the comforter and pillows next time. No satin sheets in the budget, but maybe even plain white would be better. I also think I'm going to try for some more dramatic lighting. I used this setup because it was supposed to be soft and forgiving but I'm not happy with it. I prefer high contrast images with some more shadows so I think I will stick to my taste next time instead of trying to do things by the book.


----------



## crimbfighter (Jan 20, 2014)

Ok, I'll give it a go, here. 

#1. I would like to see her body and head in less of a line. I'd prefer her body be on a 45 deg angle, instead of horizontal, then have her tilt her head back to basically the same position it's in now, and also bring her head down to the lower third, not just the left third. I think this would bring her eyes more to bare facing the camera. Also, I think the top third of the frame is too dark, I feel like it's competing with her face for my eye. I think if you adjusted the pose, and shortened up your DOF so by the time they eye gets to her hips, they're blurring out, and brought up the exposure a tad on the back, it would bring a lot more focus to her face.

#2 The coloration seems off from the right side of the frame to the left. Not consistent. Also, as mentioned, the right and left seem to tight. Lastly, I think the background is problematic because the pillows are blending in with her body, which I think is blending her into the business. I think if she were brought slightly closer to the camera, putting some kind of separation between her and the background, it would help.

#3 I like this one the most. Other than the top of the photo being slightly too tight, I can't say much I would change. She's got a great pose going. Maybe use a slightly wider aperture to narrow your DOF a tad and bring a slight blur to the headboard? Or maybe bring down the highlight on the headboard? I don't know, I'm getting pretty nit picky.. I've found with large flat shinny objects like that, it helps to find an angle that won't reflect the flash back at the camera.

All in all, you have a beautiful model, and a good start. On a side note, I have that same comforter, but in tan..


----------



## Trblmkr (Jan 20, 2014)

Jazzie I think you identifed the biggest issue. You're not comfortable with the lighting set up.  If you're not happy with it, then your results will suffer. You should shoot with what you know, and when you have time to go back and play around, it won't be so much of an issue (the woman not happy).  You can always just have her come sit for you, nothing fancy to practice. You'll be more comfortable around her and she will you. You'll build trust with each other.  Look forward to seeing more pictures of her


----------



## jenko (Jan 20, 2014)

There's such a detachment in these images. Boudoir is one of those niches, IMO, where the model really has to give off a vibe that is open to connecting with the viewer. She just looks like one of those people who really struggles to connect and is overly aware of the camera. I know it's not PC to blame the model, but some people are just very closed off, self-conscious, and it's incredibly difficult to get them to open up, especially when wearing just a nightie, lol. Do you play music or have a conversation while shooting? Sometimes that can help loosen people up.


----------



## JustJazzie (Jan 20, 2014)

jenko said:


> There's such a detachment in these images. Boudoir is one of those niches, IMO, where the model really has to give off a vibe that is open to connecting with the viewer. She just looks like one of those people who really struggles to connect and is overly aware of the camera. I know it's not PC to blame the model, but some people are just very closed off, self-conscious, and it's incredibly difficult to get them to open up, especially when wearing just a nightie, lol. Do you play music or have a conversation while shooting? Sometimes that can help loosen people up.



We did have conversation and she said she was relaxed. Maybe I'll try music next time.

It's funny that the previous poster really caught the environment, because she texted me and said "dh is working today after all! Do you want to do a mini session in an hour? I can work (she works from home) and you can setup then I'll break for pictures"

Maybe she had her mind elseware??


----------



## bribrius (Jan 20, 2014)

she does look detached. And unprepared for the session. Like she really didn't even want her picture taken or something...


----------



## DiskoJoe (Jan 21, 2014)

Posing is decent but the final product is still lacking. Basically these are missing sex appeal. Watch for background clutter too. Very distracting in boudoir.


----------



## kathyt (Jan 21, 2014)

There is just no WOW factor. I would have chose some color for the wardrobe, I use pro. hair and makeup, and I would have shot shallow to put the focus more on her.  Maybe next time ask what her favorite body part is, and really accentuate/focus on that. Her whole body doesn't have to be in the image to create the illusion of sexy. If you haven't already I would use Pinterest for posing ideas. It is a great free resource to get the creative juices flowing.


----------



## JustJazzie (Jan 21, 2014)

kathythorson said:


> There is just no WOW factor. I would have chose some color for the wardrobe, I use pro. hair and makeup, and I would have shot shallow to put the focus more on her.  Maybe next time ask what her favorite body part is, and really accentuate/focus on that. Her whole body doesn't have to be in the image to create the illusion of sexy. If you haven't already I would use Pinterest for posing ideas. It is a great free resource to get the creative juices flowing.



Unfortunately, I had/have no say in the makeup and wardrobe. When I asked her about going "bigger" for hair and makeup next time she pretty much said "no that's not the problem- the glamour look just isn't me"  

As for the detail shots- I figured those would be easier to get when she chose a more revealing outfit. A torso shot for Instance wasn't going to do anything with a nighty on. KWIM?

And remember these were just a few that I got-which happen to be full body, and not smiling. I did get closer in for a few, those just weren't the ones I chose to post. And a few where she  is smiling and looks a little more connected. (I think) 


Anyways, it's obvious this go around was a failure, hopefully next time goes better.


----------



## pixmedic (Jan 21, 2014)

JustJazzie said:


> kathythorson said:
> 
> 
> > There is just no WOW factor. I would have chose some color for the wardrobe, I use pro. hair and makeup, and I would have shot shallow to put the focus more on her.  Maybe next time ask what her favorite body part is, and really accentuate/focus on that. Her whole body doesn't have to be in the image to create the illusion of sexy. If you haven't already I would use Pinterest for posing ideas. It is a great free resource to get the creative juices flowing.
> ...



Failure?
pffffff.
far from failure.  the pictures were not bad, and if you learned something that will make the next session better, your on the positive end of the spectrum. remember, failure is _*not *_an option!


----------



## JustJazzie (Jan 21, 2014)

pixmedic said:


> Failure? pffffff. far from failure.  the pictures were not bad, and if you learned something that will make the next session better, your on the positive end of the spectrum. remember, failure is not an option!



I guess I forgot to mention I'm a perfectionist. ;-) there are lots of failures in my life. Hehehe.


----------



## pixmedic (Jan 21, 2014)

JustJazzie said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> > Failure? pffffff. far from failure.  the pictures were not bad, and if you learned something that will make the next session better, your on the positive end of the spectrum. remember, failure is not an option!
> ...



I try to replace "failure" with "learning experience" in my life.
ive had a _*lot*_ of "learning experiences"


----------



## JustJazzie (Jan 21, 2014)

pixmedic said:


> I try to replace "failure" with "learning experience" in my life. ive had a lot of "learning experiences"



Good advice Pixmedic! Something to meditate on tonight.


----------



## bribrius (Jan 21, 2014)

If she doesn't think she is glamour, or that glamour it isn't her, well im a little confused at why she is agreeing or wanting to do it in the first place. What is it even for? What is the purpose that she or you are going for with this?


----------



## Steve5D (Jan 21, 2014)

I don't see any photos. I will thus conclude they were an affront to photography as a whole...


----------



## Aakajx (Jan 23, 2014)

Where are the pics?


----------



## JustJazzie (Jan 23, 2014)

Aakajx said:


> Where are the pics?



I felt like I had enough feed back, and the model didn't want them up for too long. Sorry you missed it!


----------



## bingbang (Jan 23, 2014)

Well, this will be a personal view but : when you post a picture, then let people comment it, then remove the picture saying that you had enough feedback, I feel like I have been abused.


----------



## tecboy (Jan 23, 2014)

JustJazzie said:


> Aakajx said:
> 
> 
> > Where are the pics?
> ...



Just relax!  Don't worry about too many feed backs.  You should be thinking about improving your photographs.  That is the hardest part, improving.  Just keep shooting and try different methods and take some advices mentioned.  

I remember your photographs, and I think the model need some better facial expressions.  She looks like a stone, IMO.


----------



## bribrius (Jan 23, 2014)

tecboy said:


> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> > Aakajx said:
> ...


Totally agree. She really didn't give him a lot to work with. Hard to criticize him when he is working with a stone...


----------



## e.rose (Jan 23, 2014)

bingbang said:


> Well, this will be a personal view but : when you post a picture, then let people comment it, then remove the picture saying that you had enough feedback, I feel like I have been abused.



AGREED.

That infuriates me.

If you can't keep something up, don't post it.

Now I'm going to have to send my minions to smite you, because I've been upset by the lack of photographs in which to critique.

It's like going to a party where everyone is talking, laughing, having a great time, and you walk up to the group and ask what they're talking about, so you can be a part of it to, and they respond with, "Nothing, don't worry about it.

RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWR.

:madmad::madmad::madmad::madmad::madmad::madmad::madmad::madmad::madmad::madmad::madmad::madmad::madmad::madmad::madmad::madmad::madmad::madmad::madmad:


----------



## JustJazzie (Jan 23, 2014)

e.rose said:


> AGREED.  That infuriates me.  If you can't keep something up, don't post it.  Now I'm going to have to send my minions to smite you, because I've been upset by the lack of photographs in which to critique.  It's like going to a party where everyone is talking, laughing, having a great time, and you walk up to the group and ask what they're talking about, so you can be a part of it to, and they respond with, "Nothing, don't worry about it.  RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWR.  :madmad::madmad::madmad::madmad::madmad::madmad::madmad::madmad::madmad::madmad::madmad::madmad::madmad::madmad::madmad::madmad::madmad::madmad::madmad:


  Oh! I love minions, they are definitely invited to the party even though you weren't. Send them down and I'll show them the origional pictures, then I'll cook up a nice dinner before you call them home.


----------



## Parker219 (Jan 23, 2014)

^ hahahaha.....wait what?


----------



## Derrel (Jan 23, 2014)

Parker219 said:


> ^ hahahaha.....wait what?



It's like that old Madd Magazine cartoon, _Smartass vs Smartass_. Surely you're old enough to remember that ongoing cartoon series, right?


----------



## Parker219 (Jan 23, 2014)

Im 31, so I have no clue what you are talking about.  Thats okay though, seems to be the theme of the day. 

As for the OP taking down the photos,  if they were photos of a tree, then might as well leave them up. However, since this was a person that knows people,  that may or may not ever come across this thread, I have no problem with taking them off. FWIW


----------



## JustJazzie (Jan 23, 2014)

Parker219 said:


> Im 31, so I have no clue what you are talking about.  Thats okay though, seems to be the theme of the day.   As for the OP taking down the photos,  if they were photos of a tree, then might as well leave them up. However, since this was a person that knows people,  that may or may not ever come across this thread, I have no problem with taking them off. FWIW



Thanks Parker! You can come to dinner too.


----------



## e.rose (Jan 23, 2014)

JustJazzie said:


> Oh! I love minions, they are definitely invited to the party even though you weren't. Send them down and I'll show them the origional pictures, then I'll cook up a nice dinner before you call them home.



HA! I like you. You're alright! :lmao:


----------



## ronlane (Jan 23, 2014)

JustJazzie said:


> Parker219 said:
> 
> 
> > Im 31, so I have no clue what you are talking about.  Thats okay though, seems to be the theme of the day.   As for the OP taking down the photos,  if they were photos of a tree, then might as well leave them up. However, since this was a person that knows people,  that may or may not ever come across this thread, I have no problem with taking them off. FWIW
> ...



Dinner? Wait a dang minute... there MUST be some mistake here, I haven't received my invite yet.


----------



## wyogirl (Jan 23, 2014)

^^Do you remember the Spy vs Spy Mt. Dew commercial?  That is my earliest Spy vs Spy memory.... apparently I'm a youngin'


----------



## Derrel (Jan 23, 2014)

THis one?


----------



## JustJazzie (Jan 23, 2014)

e.rose said:


> HA! I like you. You're alright! :lmao:


  well...since you said you like me I guess you can come to dinner too! But I'm only "alright" in your book, so you will have to close your eyes when I show the photos to your minions.  





ronlane said:


> Dinner? Wait a dang minute... there MUST be some mistake here, I haven't received my invite yet.


    Okay okay! EVERYONE is invited. But don't be late- last person in the door has to be the photographer and post only the bad shots to be critiqued on TPF.


----------



## e.rose (Jan 23, 2014)

JustJazzie said:


> e.rose said:
> 
> 
> > HA! I like you. You're alright! :lmao:
> ...



 Deal. We'll work up to the rest eventually.  :lmao:


----------

