# Breaking The Limitations of Photography



## Josh100LuBu

Many photographers play it safe and ridicule others that go the extra mile, they refer to unusual photography as 'The Forbidden Zone' and if you cross into that territory you are pretty much lynched! How have you broken the limitations of vanilla photography and what has inspired you to be different?


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## astroNikon

what's the Forbidden Zone?

Artistic photography is just that ... artistic for the artist making the photograph.

the only ppl I see lynched are newbie wedding photographers that bought their camera 3 days ago and have no idea how to turn it on (and such).


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## pgriz

Which limitations of photography would you be referring to?


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## Josh100LuBu

astroNikon said:


> what's the Forbidden Zone?
> 
> Artistic photography is just that ... artistic for the artist making the photograph.
> 
> the only ppl I see lynched are newbie wedding photographers that bought their camera 3 days ago and have no idea how to turn it on (and such).


LOL good comment.


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## tirediron

Josh100LuBu said:


> Many photographers play it safe and *ridicule others* that go the extra mile, they refer to unusual photography as 'The Forbidden Zone' and if you cross into that territory you are pretty much lynched! How have you broken the limitations of *vanilla photography* and what has inspired you to be different?


 I'm curious as to how your rationalize this.  You're complaining about people who you feel are ridiculing [I assume you refer to] your work, yet you refer to theirs as "vanilla"; not exactly a complimentary term...  I freely admit to being a traditionalist; I love creating classic, timeless portraits.  While I am not especially enamoured of your work, and I can't pretend to understand it, I respect it as your work.  A little reciprocity might not go amiss...


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## Josh100LuBu

pgriz said:


> Which limitations of photography would you be referring to?


When photographers/artists and people in general play it safe to avoid any friction in the communities. Some people limit themselves due to the popularity factor and wanting to be liked, this often shows in their artwork.


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## tirediron

Josh100LuBu said:


> pgriz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which limitations of photography would you be referring to?
> 
> 
> 
> When photographers/artists and people in general play it safe to avoid any friction in the communities. Some people limit themselves due to the popularity factor and wanting to be liked, this often shows in their artwork.
Click to expand...

 Perhaps, and I realize this is a wild idea, so I'm just tossing it out there for s**ts and giggles, some of those people you feel are 'playing it safe' are actually creating work in which they see genuine beauty. 

You seem to have a real chip on your shoulder when it comes to anything that even remotely mainstream.  Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's bad!


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## bribrius

Josh100LuBu said:


> pgriz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which limitations of photography would you be referring to?
> 
> 
> 
> When photographers/artists and people in general play it safe to avoid any friction in the communities. Some people limit themselves due to the popularity factor and wanting to be liked, this often shows in their artwork.
Click to expand...

so, why you worried about them? worry about you. And being liked only matters if you are doing commercial work or selling prints. Then it comes down to food on the table. learning, is something entirely different than appreciation of your style. You might be mistaking them playing it safe, for rather some of them learning to do it properly first, before they branch off into their own specific styles and methods. Feel free to make a vase that is totally hated. Long as you know you can make one correctly. Can you shoot straight vanilla photography on a professional level? If you can, than no worries. If you can't, then you really should incorporate more knowledge and at least incorporate SOME of that into your chosen art. Knowledge is power.


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## Josh100LuBu

tirediron said:


> Josh100LuBu said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pgriz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which limitations of photography would you be referring to?
> 
> 
> 
> When photographers/artists and people in general play it safe to avoid any friction in the communities. Some people limit themselves due to the popularity factor and wanting to be liked, this often shows in their artwork.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Perhaps, and I realize this is a wild idea, so I'm just tossing it out there for s**ts and giggles, some of those people you feel are 'playing it safe' are actually creating work in which they see genuine beauty.
> 
> You seem to have a real chip on your shoulder when it comes to anything that even remotely mainstream.  Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's bad!
Click to expand...

I never said it was bad I just think it's a little boring, theres plenty of things that aren't terrible just very uninspiring and I think that's a great shame. But, as i've said before art is indeed subjective to the artist and everyone has a different eye for creativity. Just wished more of them would be more daring!


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## Ysarex




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## pgriz

Josh100LuBu said:


> pgriz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which limitations of photography would you be referring to?
> 
> 
> 
> When photographers/artists and people in general play it safe to avoid any friction in the communities. Some people limit themselves due to the popularity factor and wanting to be liked, this often shows in their artwork.
Click to expand...


Then that would be the limitations of the people practicing photography, and not of photography itself.  As for creating friction, people tend to react negatively to things that are overdone, such as too much saturation, selective colour, HDR, instagram-style filters, etc.  

Photography is like writing, in that it communicates to an audience.  Good writing draws the readers in and can often seduce them in considering viewpoints that otherwise they would not consider.  Bad writing will alienate the audience to the point of them totally ignoring the point of the written piece.  Same with photography.  This is exactly the same as the old saying "you catch more flies with honey than vinegar".  However, learning the art of seduction, whether in writing, or visual art, or in person, requires a certain sensitivity to your audience.


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## tirediron

Ysarex said:


>


No fans, feathers, funny jackets or navigational insturments...  = FAIL.


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## Ysarex

tirediron said:


> Ysarex said:
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> 
> No fans, feathers, funny jackets or navigational insturments...  = FAIL.
Click to expand...


But it was taken in the Forbidden Zone!

Joe


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## Derrel

This "Forbidden Zone" is where the nudie pics are located, yes?


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## Ysarex

Got it right this time.


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## table1349

There is no such thing as vanilla photography, no forbidden zonrs other than what the law states, just vanilla minds.  You like it, you don't like it, get over it and move on.  Lifes too short to worry about crap like that.  

A wise man once said.  

Never sweat the petty stuff and never pet the sweaty stuff.


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## crzyfotopeeple

Labeling everything and attemping to constantly justify oneself and whatever it is you do is a definite sign of insecurity in yourself and the inability to have any confidence in whatever it is you do. Craving the constant reassurance from random people on the internet that you are somehow "different" and "special" and everyone else is just ordinary in whatever it is they find pleasure in. The fact is your photography is no more interesting than someone who creates classic amazing landscape photos or whatever style it is that works for you. People have been pushing the limits of photography since it's invention. It's a lot like music. There are only so many notes and chords and at some point they are repeated and songs sound alike. The fact is no one really cares what you or I or anyone else does. I enjoy pictures I like. It's about that simple.


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## astroNikon

searching .... your last Thread "My Classy Photography" now I know what we're talking about.

I like that post #2.  It's something you find in a history book in a way (minus the feather).  But I see what you are trying to do.  I think you need to refine some of your techniques and such (as Tirediron mentioned in that last thread). 

Compare to this person has really refined their techniques in about everything and the end result shows (I thought he had much more surrealism pictures then he does) ==> Flickr Modifeye s Photostream

My photos are just "generic" in a sense.  but I'm trying to expand my creative side in certain things ... I'm a work in progress (probably forever) but I take critique in a positive way to expand my horizons and learn what I don't know.


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## Vtec44

To break the limitations you have to first understand and know the limitations.  To think outside of the box you have to know how to think inside of the box, so you can differentiate.  Photography has been around for over a century.  What you think is new probably has already been done.  Being "unique" alone is easy.  Being unique and good at the same time is hard.  

First, what the heck is vanilla photography?


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## tirediron

Vtec44 said:


> ...First, what the heck is vanilla photography?


 I'd call this pretty vanilla....


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## Designer

Josh100LuBu said:


> When photographers/artists and people in general play it safe to avoid any friction in the communities. Some people limit themselves due to the popularity factor and wanting to be liked, this often shows in their artwork.


Do you REALLY think that is what motivates us?  

Any of us?  

If so, you need to re-think that.  Seriously.  

I only know most of these people from online chat, so why would I style my art to please them?  

There might be some, but they can defend their position as they see fit.


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## Designer

tirediron said:


> Vtec44 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...First, what the heck is vanilla photography?
> 
> 
> 
> I'd call this pretty vanilla....
Click to expand...

OMG!  THAT is vanilla to the tenth!


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## Designer

See?  

Joe can do Lam..thin..whats..it too!


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## Designer

Actually I will occasionally find myself swimming around in the vanilla of my mind, looking for the door to the chocolate.


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## table1349

tirediron said:


> Vtec44 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...First, what the heck is vanilla photography?
> 
> 
> 
> I'd call this pretty vanilla....
Click to expand...

And I would call this the "Forbidden Zone" 

For me the Ox Tongue Ice Cream has to be the worst, although the pit viper Ice Cream comes in a close second.


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## table1349

Derrel said:


> This "Forbidden Zone" is where the nudie pics are located, yes?







You mean like this "Forbidden Zone?"


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## sleist

I'm sorry, what zone was it?


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## Derrel

Josh, Here are some thought I had, relating to your photography. I am being totally honest, and straight-forward with you, this is not a joke in any way.

Allegorical or story-telling photography with HEAVY manipulation was very popular in the 1850's to the end of the 1870's, as serious photographers hired actors or models dressed in costume, and tried to create allegorical/mythological/religious types of scenes, sort of reminiscent of classical paintings. But that trend passed eventually, morphing into basically, the _pictorialst movement_ of the late 19th and very early 20th centuries, with more emphasis on outdoor and natural-world scenes.

The pictorialists did a lot of manipulation, on both their negatives, and/or on their prints, and were in general, less interested in composite images made from multiple negatives than the earlier workers.

Around 100-120 years after the first phases of allegorical photography, in the late 1970's and very early 1980's, the artist Cindy Sherman engaged in a very diligent, productive phase of allegorical/story-telling self portraiture in costume, which sort of presaged the entire "selfie craze" and its literally millions upon millions of self-absorbed young female practitioners by almost three decades. Sherman made herself up and dressed herself in amazing wardrobe items, and cast herself as many entirely different persons, of diverse ages, in hundreds of artistic self-portraits, set in real-world, custom-created sets. Your work, what I have seen, seems sort of in Sherman's shadow, only thirty-plus years later, and with almost self-deprecating results. What you are doing has been done before, twice, basically a full century apart each time, but both times with very,verrry SERIOUS intent, by the very best and most-educated practitioners of both the art and the craft of photography...but the level you're operating at,currently, is extremely unsophisticated.

If you worked at it harder, you might be able to get your stuff to raise to the level of "camp", but so far, as you can see by your YouTube hit counts, people just are not "getting on board" with the approach. I'll give you what I think is the best example of you now, and where you might end up: John Waters, the film maker from Baltimore, Maryland, USA. I think the the level you're operating at,currently, can be elevated. You **might be** able to move this up a long,long way.


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## tecboy

Ummm... You are not a photographer.  Your dad shoots all the photographs for you.


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## Derrel

tecboy said:


> Ummm... You are not a photographer.  Your dad shoots all the photographs for you.



I do not agree with that contention, at all, in any way. This has been dealt with before, many times. His camera, his gear, his ideas, HIS photos. Same goes for husband and wife teams who have joint copyright; same with photographers who shoot TIMED, or intervalometer, or trigger/trap-focus images of wildlife and natural world events; coyote appears at a bait in the middle of the night, a trap-focused Canon starts shooting images while the photographer is at home or in camp, asleep; who took the photos and has copyright? *The coyote?* Uhhhh, no.


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## snowbear

I like vanilla, it's my second-most favorite flavor after black cherry.


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## tirediron

Derrel said:


> tecboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ummm... You are not a photographer.  Your dad shoots all the photographs for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do not agree with that contention, at all, in any way. This has been dealt with before, many times. His camera, his gear, his ideas, HIS photos. Same goes for husband and wife teams who have joint copyright; same with photographers who shoot TIMED, or intervalometer, or trigger/trap-focus images of wildlife and natural world events; coyote appears at a bait in the middle of the night, a trap-focused Canon starts shooting images while the photographer is at home or in camp, asleep; who took the photos and has copyright? *The coyote?* Uhhhh, no.
Click to expand...

Possibly.  His gear?  Sure.  His ideas?  Without a doubt, but..  do we actually know how much creative input Dad had?


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## Designer

tirediron said:


> .. do we actually know how much creative input Dad had?


Josh looks just like his dad.


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## tecboy

Derrel said:


> tecboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ummm... You are not a photographer.  Your dad shoots all the photographs for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do not agree with that contention, at all, in any way. This has been dealt with before, many times. His camera, his gear, his ideas, HIS photos. Same goes for husband and wife teams who have joint copyright; same with photographers who shoot TIMED, or intervalometer, or trigger/trap-focus images of wildlife and natural world events; coyote appears at a bait in the middle of the night, a trap-focused Canon starts shooting images while the photographer is at home or in camp, asleep; who took the photos and has copyright? *The coyote?* Uhhhh, no.
Click to expand...

He and his parents have shared copyright. But he doesn't deserve credit as a photographer, and he was asking for feedback.


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## BillM

Yawn, I like Boxxy better. Wake me up when we start serving bacon again.


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## limr

tecboy said:


> He and his parents have shared copyright. But he doesn't deserve credit as a photographer, and he was asking for feedback.



No, the person who presses the button has the copyright to that photo. The stylist does not share in the copyright, nor does the model or art director or makeup artist. The only time someone else gets the rights to the photograph is by contract. And lest you forget, just look at Snerd's avatar to remind yourself that if a monkey is that shutter-pusher, that means _no one_ gets copyright because an animal can't own a copyright. They don't transfer the copyright to the human whose gear or idea set up the shot.


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## KmH

Here is US copyright law.
Copyright Law of the United States U.S. Copyright Office

Be wary of legal advice given in an online photography forum.
Even lawyers trained in the sub-specialties of US copyright and publication law give bad advice, which is why there are hundreds of copyright cases pending in the federal courts right now.

Note - Ideas cannot be copyrighted, but copyright may protect the way ideas are expressed.


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## tecboy

limr said:


> tecboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> He and his parents have shared copyright. But he doesn't deserve credit as a photographer, and he was asking for feedback.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, the person who presses the button has the copyright to that photo. The stylist does not share in the copyright, nor does the model or art director or makeup artist. The only time someone else gets the rights to the photograph is by contract. And lest you forget, just look at Snerd's avatar to remind yourself that if a monkey is that shutter-pusher, that means _no one_ gets copyright because an animal can't own a copyright. They don't transfer the copyright to the human whose gear or idea set up the shot.
Click to expand...


Got it. I didn't mention about the copyright in the first place.


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## KmH

tecboy said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tecboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ummm... You are not a photographer.  Your dad shoots all the photographs for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do not agree with that contention, at all, in any way. This has been dealt with before, many times. His camera, his gear, his ideas, HIS photos. Same goes for husband and wife teams who have joint copyright; same with photographers who shoot TIMED, or intervalometer, or trigger/trap-focus images of wildlife and natural world events; coyote appears at a bait in the middle of the night, a trap-focused Canon starts shooting images while the photographer is at home or in camp, asleep; who took the photos and has copyright? *The coyote?* Uhhhh, no.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He and his parents have shared copyright. But he doesn't deserve credit as a photographer, and he was asking for feedback.
Click to expand...

Where does it say in US copyright law the he and his parents have shared copyright?
I am always wanting to learn more about US copyright law.


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## Derrel

limr said:


> tecboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> He and his parents have shared copyright. But he doesn't deserve credit as a photographer, and he was asking for feedback.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, the person who presses the button has the copyright to that photo. The stylist does not share in the copyright, nor does the model or art director or makeup artist. The only time someone else gets the rights to the photograph is by contract. And lest you forget, just look at Snerd's avatar to remind yourself that if a monkey is that shutter-pusher, that means _no one_ gets copyright because an animal can't own a copyright. They don't transfer the copyright to the human whose gear or idea set up the shot.
Click to expand...


Uh no, sorry, I think you're flat-out wrong on the idea that, "No one gets copyright." But that is what the thieves who have been stealing the images have been using as their argument to rationalize their theft. Snerd's avatar image is in fact, one that ought to be removed here, and frankly, I am surprised the people running this site have let this slide for so long... the people running TPF have been almost INSTANTANEOUS in vigorously kill-filing misappropriated images for years now, and yet...that avatar has been allowed here on hundreds of posts: and we know that snerd himself DOES NOT OWN or have any claim to copyright on that monkey image...none.

Seems like some consistency might be in order. And the implication that his father has a lot of creative contribution...the guy that cast that aspersion ought to know better than to make a cheap remark like that...that was really uncalled for...


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## tecboy

KmH said:


> tecboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tecboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ummm... You are not a photographer.  Your dad shoots all the photographs for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do not agree with that contention, at all, in any way. This has been dealt with before, many times. His camera, his gear, his ideas, HIS photos. Same goes for husband and wife teams who have joint copyright; same with photographers who shoot TIMED, or intervalometer, or trigger/trap-focus images of wildlife and natural world events; coyote appears at a bait in the middle of the night, a trap-focused Canon starts shooting images while the photographer is at home or in camp, asleep; who took the photos and has copyright? *The coyote?* Uhhhh, no.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He and his parents have shared copyright. But he doesn't deserve credit as a photographer, and he was asking for feedback.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where does it say in US copyright law the he and his parents have shared copyright?
> I am always wanting to learn more about US copyright law.
Click to expand...


Ask Derrel, he started it.


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## limr

Derrel: Who Owns A Monkey s Selfie No One Can U.S. Says The Two-Way NPR


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## limr

Derrel said:


> Uh no, sorry, I think you're flat-out wrong on the idea that, "No one gets copyright." But that is what the thieves who have been stealing the images have been using as their argument to rationalize their theft. Snerd's avatar image is in fact, one that ought to be removed here, and frankly, I am surprised the people running this site have let this slide for so long... the people running TPF have been almost INSTANTANEOUS in vigorously kill-filing misappropriated images for years now, and yet...that avatar has been allowed here on hundreds of posts: and we know that snerd himself DOES NOT OWN or have any claim to copyright on that monkey image...none.
> 
> Seems like some consistency might be in order. And the implication that his father has a lot of creative contribution...the guy that cast that aspersion ought to know better than to make a cheap remark like that...that was really uncalled for...



I think John only suggested that _we do not know_ the extent of the father's involvement - no one suggested that the father was running the show.

And there's a difference between artistic credit and _legal_ credit. It's simple - if the OP wants there to be no question of copyright ownership, he needs to use the self-timer or a remote shutter release.


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## pgriz

I think we need the monkey's perspective on this.  How good is the internet connection to the macaques?  If they can operate a camera to do a selfie, surely working on Skype can't be that difficult.


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## limr

From Chapter 300 of the U.S. Copyright Office Compendium:

"*306* *The Human Authorship Requirement* 
The U.S. Copyright Office will register an original work of authorship, provided that the 
work was created by a human being. 
The copyright law only protects “the fruits of intellectual labor” that “are founded in the 
creative powers of the mind.” Trade-Mark Cases, 100 U.S. 82, 94 (1879). Because 
copyright law is limited to “original intellectual conceptions of the author,” the Office 
will refuse to register a claim if it determines that a human being did not create the 
work. Burrow-Giles Lithographic Co. v. Sarony, 111 U.S. 53, 58 (1884). For representative 
examples of works that do not satisfy this requirement, see *Section 313.2 below*."

"*313.2* *Works That Lack Human Authorship* 
As discussed in Section 306, the Copyright Act protects “original works 
of authorship.” 17 U.S.C. § 102(a) (emphasis added). To qualify as a work of “authorship” 
a work must be created by a human being. See Burrow-Giles Lithographic Co., 111 U.S. at 
58. Works that do not satisfy this requirement are not copyrightable. 
The Office will not register works produced by nature, animals, or plants. Likewise, the 
Office cannot register a work purportedly created by divine or supernatural beings, 
although the Office may register a work where the application or the deposit copy(ies)
state that the work was inspired by a divine spirit. 
Examples: 
• A photograph taken by a monkey.
• A mural painted by an elephant.
• A claim based on the appearance of actual animal skin.
• A claim based on driftwood that has been shaped and smoothed by 
the ocean.
• A claim based on cut marks, defects, and other qualities found in 
natural stone.
• An application for a song naming the Holy Spirit as the author of the 
work.
Similarly, the Office will not register works produced by a machine or mere mechanical 
process that operates randomly or automatically without any creative input or 
intervention from a human author. 
Examples: 
• Reducing or enlarging the size of a preexisting work of authorship.
• Making changes to a preexisting work of authorship that are 
dictated by manufacturing or materials requirements.
• Converting a work from analog to digital format, such as 
transferring a motion picture from VHS to DVD.
• Declicking or reducing the noise in a preexisting sound recording or 
converting a sound recording from monaural to stereo sound.
• Transposing a song from B major to C major.
• Medical imaging produced by x-rays, ultrasounds, magnetic 
resonance imaging, or other diagnostic equipment.
• A claim based on a mechanical weaving process that randomly 
produces irregular shapes in the fabric without any discernible 
pattern"


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## snerd

limr said:


> Derrel: Who Owns A Monkey s Selfie No One Can U.S. Says The Two-Way NPR


So there! I would have "never" used the avatar if I had not read that decision! I even stated at the time that I would "not" use it if the gear-owner informed me he'd rather I not. But he "in no way" had anything to do with that shot................... the monkey happened upon his camera laying on the ground and managed to snap a photo of himself. Just how do you get to the conclusion that it should be copyrighted by him?!


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## tecboy

Is the publisher has the copyright for that monkey's photo?


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## snerd

tecboy said:


> Is the publisher has the copyright for that monkey's photo?


No one has a copyright on that monkey photo.


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## tecboy

snerd said:


> tecboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is the publisher has the copyright for that monkey's photo?
> 
> 
> 
> No one has a copyright on that monkey photo.
Click to expand...


But, you are misleading yourself.  People think you shot this image.


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## snerd

tecboy said:


> snerd said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tecboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is the publisher has the copyright for that monkey's photo?
> 
> 
> 
> No one has a copyright on that monkey photo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But, you are misleading yourself.  People think you shot this image.
Click to expand...

Why would they think that?! It's a goofy avatar! There are lots of goofy avatars on the forums. That's the first time I've even heard of that idea. At the time I started using it, "everyone" knew the story behind it.


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## snerd

But this is for another thread. I don't want to hijack this one.


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## pgriz

snerd said:


> But this is for another thread. I don't want to hijack this one.



Don't want to burst your bubble, but that WOULD be a first.  The general trend is to have multiple hijacks, which will occasionally bring it back to the OP.


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## syaudi

I'm going to break the trend and actually answer OP's question.

sometimes what's not in focus can be more captivating than what's in focus.


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## Overread

Derrel said:


> Uh no, sorry, I think you're flat-out wrong on the idea that, "No one gets copyright." But that is what the thieves who have been stealing the images have been using as their argument to rationalize their theft. Snerd's avatar image is in fact, one that ought to be removed here, and frankly, I am surprised the people running this site have let this slide for so long... the people running TPF have been almost INSTANTANEOUS in vigorously kill-filing misappropriated images for years now, and yet...that avatar has been allowed here on hundreds of posts: and we know that snerd himself DOES NOT OWN or have any claim to copyright on that monkey image...none..



1) Last I heard the monkey photo got taken to court and the photographer lost and it was deemed that as the monkey had taken the shot without provocation nor encouragement that the monkey was the photographer. It was then argued that as its not human and there are no standing laws, the monkey, whilst the creator of the work without question, cannot hold a legal copyright of the work. Ergo its freegame. 

2) We've never policed avatars ever unless people break rules on things like nudity. They've always been generally treated under "fair use"; which I am aware is a minefield legally speaking; but thus far there has been no landmark court case of anyone being taken to court successfully for using a copyright image as a forum avatar.

3) When it comes to families we generally don't mind embedding of photos since we make the assumption that permission is granted within the general family unit. So long as the person isn't miss-representing the situation it is generally all alright to display. Critique is a bit of a sticky area and in general our view has always been that if one wants critique one should make their own account and post up their own work and we'd always encourage that approach (though we are also aware that within family units people will share accounts). 

In the case of pre-posed shots its more fiddly however I'd generally say that if the lighting, scene, frame and pose are all set by the same person and that the other is only pressing the shutter instead of using a remote shutter then chances are whilst its a joint effort, but that the one who set the scene etc.. is likely the more in need of direction/critique


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## Josh100LuBu

gryphonslair99 said:


> There is no such thing as vanilla photography, no forbidden zonrs other than what the law states, just vanilla minds.  You like it, you don't like it, get over it and move on.  Lifes too short to worry about crap like that.
> 
> A wise man once said.
> 
> Never sweat the petty stuff and never pet the sweaty stuff.


Explain the vanilla photography on this forum then? 90% of what i've seen here is very bland.


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## Josh100LuBu

tecboy said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tecboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ummm... You are not a photographer.  Your dad shoots all the photographs for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do not agree with that contention, at all, in any way. This has been dealt with before, many times. His camera, his gear, his ideas, HIS photos. Same goes for husband and wife teams who have joint copyright; same with photographers who shoot TIMED, or intervalometer, or trigger/trap-focus images of wildlife and natural world events; coyote appears at a bait in the middle of the night, a trap-focused Canon starts shooting images while the photographer is at home or in camp, asleep; who took the photos and has copyright? *The coyote?* Uhhhh, no.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He and his parents have shared copyright. But he doesn't deserve credit as a photographer, and he was asking for feedback.
Click to expand...

You are very mistaken, I am the owner of these photos.


----------



## tirediron

Josh100LuBu said:


> ...Explain the vanilla photography on this forum then? 90% of what i've seen here is very bland.


 You really don't get it, do you?  Simply because you don't like something doesn't mean it's bad.  For instance:  The image below, I'm sure you consider to be "vanilla", whereas I (and quite a few others) consider to be a well executed, classic portrait.  It's not your thing, fine, no problem.  I don't see much in your work that I like, BUT... I respect the fact that it is your work and has meaning to you.  How about you start doing the same for others?


----------



## tirediron

Josh100LuBu said:


> You are very mistaken, I am the owner of these photos.


 If you didn't actually press the shutter release, then you may want to discuss this issue with a member of the US Supreme Court, they seem to have a somewhat different opinion...


----------



## pixmedic

Josh100LuBu said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no such thing as vanilla photography, no forbidden zonrs other than what the law states, just vanilla minds.  You like it, you don't like it, get over it and move on.  Lifes too short to worry about crap like that.
> 
> A wise man once said.
> 
> Never sweat the petty stuff and never pet the sweaty stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> Explain the vanilla photography on this forum then? 90% of what i've seen here is very bland.
Click to expand...


you have to understand that this is a photography forum. which is to say, a forum where the vast majority are people _*behind *_the camera taking pictures. Thus, most of us here are striving for a certain level of technical and/or artistic development where the end product that we produce adheres to a certain standard of photographic proficiency.
while artistic license is certainly a subjective area, most technical aspects of a photograph, IE: exposure, focus, lighting, etc etc... are not nearly as much.

The bottom line is, posting pictures here (except in the "just for fun" section) is quite literally by the forum rules _*asking*_ for critique on whatever pictures are posted. Since this forum is mostly about people learning and teaching  how to _*take*_ pictures, the feedback you receive will most likely be to that end, as well as mostly directed at how you can improve the pictures.
If you are not into taking pictures, but instead, prefer to be the model, you might find a better suited (and more receptive) audience in a forum with a more dedicated section to modeling.

I would also point out that joining a forum and immediately insulting its members and their work is definitely not the way to endear yourself to a community.  Quite frankly, if you do not approve of the forum members work, Its probably best if  you just find a group that is better suited to your tastes.

As a last note, and a friendly bit of advice per my job here as a Moderator...as per forum rules, (which I assume you have thoroughly read through) blatant inflammatory comments directed towards other members or their work will not be tolerated, and may result in a temporary (and eventually permanent) ban from the forum. 
insults to the moderating staff fall into that category as well.

If you have not already done a proper introduction, you might consider a brief dissertation about yourself, how you found the forum, and what you hope to learn and/or contribute here. If people can get a better idea of what you are looking to accomplish here, those more aligned to what you need will have an easier time finding you.


----------



## Designer

Josh100LuBu said:


> Explain the vanilla photography on this forum then? 90% of what i've seen here is very bland.


This may come as quite shock; not everyone is an expert.

What you see as "very bland" may be the photographer's best effort to date.  

Lighten up.


----------



## Josh100LuBu

tirediron said:


> Josh100LuBu said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are very mistaken, I am the owner of these photos.
> 
> 
> 
> If you didn't actually press the shutter release, then you may want to discuss this issue with a member of the US Supreme Court, they seem to have a somewhat different opinion...
Click to expand...

I'll gladly debate that with them.


----------



## tirediron

Josh100LuBu said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Josh100LuBu said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are very mistaken, I am the owner of these photos.
> 
> 
> 
> If you didn't actually press the shutter release, then you may want to discuss this issue with a member of the US Supreme Court, they seem to have a somewhat different opinion...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'll gladly debate that with them.
Click to expand...


----------



## The_Traveler

All this time I thought that avatar was Snerd.


----------



## fjrabon

I simply don't have the talent to attack a Hussar Jacket with a Sextant at the same time.  I hope to get there one day, but for now, I just can't really pull it off.  The buttons, combined with the knobs, it just sort of rattles me in person.


----------



## astroNikon

snerd said:


> tecboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is the publisher has the copyright for that monkey's photo?
> 
> 
> 
> No one has a copyright on that monkey photo.
Click to expand...

and all along I thought it was a true selfie


----------



## astroNikon

Josh100LuBu said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Josh100LuBu said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are very mistaken, I am the owner of these photos.
> 
> 
> 
> If you didn't actually press the shutter release, then you may want to discuss this issue with a member of the US Supreme Court, they seem to have a somewhat different opinion...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'll gladly debate that with them.
Click to expand...

Actually, when you debate artistic capacities .. isn't everyone right in their own realm ?


----------



## snerd

astroNikon said:


> and all along I thought it was a true selfie












Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## sm4him

I sure do like turtles.


----------



## tirediron

sm4him said:


> I sure do like turtles.


 Mmmmmmmmmmm turkles.  I loves turkles!


----------



## snerd

The dude abides........



Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## limr

snerd said:


> The dude abides........
> Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk Pro



And this is now the second time I've asked - where's my Caucasian??


----------



## mattpayne11

Interesting thread... I had to go back and find the OP's thread that everyone was referencing and then I had to chuckle a bit...

I think this thread actually had a lot of promise in regards to ethics and drawing a line in the sand... and defining the slippery slope. I did not see anything in the OPs photos that was pushing any boundaries (poor exposure and white balance control aside) except for perhaps the inclusion of some composited items such as stars etc... which I don't mind at all. I think OP has some nice thoughts in his photos, but the technical aspects of the photos were quite missed. Keep at it, dude, I think your creativity will shine. Don't constrain your originality or creativity with any limitations... and, you'll see that over time your popularity will rise if your work has any merit.


----------



## Josh100LuBu

snerd said:


> astroNikon said:
> 
> 
> 
> and all along I thought it was a true selfie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 99828
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk Pro
Click to expand...

Why would you use this?


----------



## pixmedic

Josh100LuBu said:


> snerd said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> astroNikon said:
> 
> 
> 
> and all along I thought it was a true selfie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 99828
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk Pro
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would you use this?
Click to expand...


obviously he is pushing artistic boundaries.


----------



## Josh100LuBu

pixmedic said:


> Josh100LuBu said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> snerd said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> astroNikon said:
> 
> 
> 
> and all along I thought it was a true selfie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 99828
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk Pro
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would you use this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> obviously he is pushing artistic boundaries.
Click to expand...

Does he own the copyright to such an image?


----------



## table1349

Josh100LuBu said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no such thing as vanilla photography, no forbidden zonrs other than what the law states, just vanilla minds.  You like it, you don't like it, get over it and move on.  Lifes too short to worry about crap like that.
> 
> A wise man once said.
> 
> Never sweat the petty stuff and never pet the sweaty stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> Explain the vanilla photography on this forum then? 90% of what i've seen here is very bland.
Click to expand...

Easy, there is no vanilla photography on this forum or in the rest of the world.  You have a narrow vanilla mind.    Like it, don't like it.  It doesn't matter. 

http://www.wordsonimages.com/pics/105141-o.jpg

What I find vanilla are the pseudo-intellectual questions that get presented for "discussion."


----------



## limr

Josh100LuBu said:


> Does he own the copyright to such an image?



Read your own thread. The image is in the public domain. It is free for anyone to use as they see fit.


----------



## table1349

snerd said:


> astroNikon said:
> 
> 
> 
> and all along I thought it was a true selfie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 99828
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk Pro
Click to expand...

How did you get a picture of my Mother-in-law???


----------



## pixmedic

Josh100LuBu said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Josh100LuBu said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> snerd said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> astroNikon said:
> 
> 
> 
> and all along I thought it was a true selfie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 99828
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk Pro
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would you use this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> obviously he is pushing artistic boundaries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Does he own the copyright to such an image?
Click to expand...


copyright on that image doesnt exit.
we covered this already.
if your going to comment, please try and keep up.


----------



## Josh100LuBu

pixmedic said:


> Josh100LuBu said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Josh100LuBu said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> snerd said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> astroNikon said:
> 
> 
> 
> and all along I thought it was a true selfie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 99828
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk Pro
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would you use this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> obviously he is pushing artistic boundaries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Does he own the copyright to such an image?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> copyright on that image doesnt exit.
> we covered this already.
> if your going to comment, please try and keep up.
Click to expand...

WE didn't cover anything, YOU made up a bunch of nonsense and passed it off as truth and fact. Please, keep up.


----------



## Buckster

This is an obvious troll campaign.

IBTL


----------



## Designer

Josh100LuBu said:


> Does he own the copyright to such an image?


Apparently some court of "law" decreed that the image has NO copyright.  Public domaine, dude!


----------



## Vtec44

The more I read, I


Buckster said:


> This is an obvious troll campaign.
> 
> IBTL




I hope so because if this is not... then it's just sad.


----------



## Josh100LuBu

Designer said:


> Josh100LuBu said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does he own the copyright to such an image?
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently some court of "law" decreed that the image has NO copyright.  Public domaine, dude!
Click to expand...

One sided argument as always, very hypocritical of you to claim that my photos are my fathers property and not mine yet when I turn it around you don't actually have a solid defence.


----------



## tirediron

Josh100LuBu said:


> ...WE didn't cover anything, YOU made up a bunch of nonsense and passed it off as truth and fact. Please, keep up.


I refuse to believe that anyone could possibly be as obtuse as you appear to be, and therefore must assume that you are in fact trolling the board for some as-yet, uknown reason.  Given that, any further rude or inappropriate comments directed toward any member, moderator or not, of this board will earn you an extended posting vacation.


----------



## Josh100LuBu

tirediron said:


> Josh100LuBu said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...WE didn't cover anything, YOU made up a bunch of nonsense and passed it off as truth and fact. Please, keep up.
> 
> 
> 
> I refuse to believe that anyone could possibly be as obtuse as you appear to be, and therefore must assume that you are in fact trolling the board for some as-yet, uknown reason.  Given that, any further rude or inappropriate comments directed toward any member, moderator or not, of this board will earn you an extended posting vacation.
Click to expand...

Where can I complain about you abusing your power as a moderator?


----------



## Designer

Josh100LuBu said:


> One sided argument as always, very hypocritical of you to claim that my photos are my fathers property and not mine yet when I turn it around you don't actually have a solid defence.


Hey!  Why are you picking on me?  

I don't recall disparaging your photographs or your posts.  

You asked about the monkey photograph, and I responded with factual information.


----------



## Designer

Josh100LuBu said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Josh100LuBu said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...WE didn't cover anything, YOU made up a bunch of nonsense and passed it off as truth and fact. Please, keep up.
> 
> 
> 
> I refuse to believe that anyone could possibly be as obtuse as you appear to be, and therefore must assume that you are in fact trolling the board for some as-yet, uknown reason.  Given that, any further rude or inappropriate comments directed toward any member, moderator or not, of this board will earn you an extended posting vacation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where can I complain about you abusing your power as a moderator?
Click to expand...

You "report" the post, just as you would anybody else's.  All the mods get the same reports. 

FWIW; I fail to see where tirediron has abused the mod privilege. 

My advice is to not escalate any argument, because if it gets heated, somebody is leaving.


----------



## 480sparky




----------



## Josh100LuBu

Designer said:


> Josh100LuBu said:
> 
> 
> 
> One sided argument as always, very hypocritical of you to claim that my photos are my fathers property and not mine yet when I turn it around you don't actually have a solid defence.
> 
> 
> 
> Hey!  Why are you picking on me?
> 
> I don't recall disparaging your photographs or your posts.
> 
> You asked about the monkey photograph, and I responded with factual information.
Click to expand...

I'm not picking on you, I don't pick on anyone. I'm saying it out loud so people understand.


----------



## Designer

Josh100LuBu said:


> I'm not picking on you, I don't pick on anyone. I'm saying it out loud so people understand.


Some of us question the court's decision, but that is as far as it ever goes.  We are not lawyers, and we don't have a similar case on the docket.


----------



## sm4him

This all reminds me. I really, really need to witness an actual train wreck so that I can take some pictures of it that I can post when the situation calls for it, without having to violate anyone's copyright. I don't want anyone to get hurt, just a little front-on collision, you know?  You think the local train depot would be willing to stage that for me? 

Well, maybe I'll just take a picture of a passing train and then 'shop a brick wall into the picture right in front of the train.


----------



## 480sparky

sm4him said:


> This all reminds me. I really, really need to witness an actual train wreck so that I can take some pictures of it that I can post when the situation calls for it, w......



Aim your camera at your screen RIGHT NOW!  Then you'll have your 'train wreck' shot.


----------



## tirediron

Josh100LuBu said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Josh100LuBu said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...WE didn't cover anything, YOU made up a bunch of nonsense and passed it off as truth and fact. Please, keep up.
> 
> 
> 
> I refuse to believe that anyone could possibly be as obtuse as you appear to be, and therefore must assume that you are in fact trolling the board for some as-yet, uknown reason.  Given that, any further rude or inappropriate comments directed toward any member, moderator or not, of this board will earn you an extended posting vacation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where can I complain about you abusing your power as a moderator?
Click to expand...

 You may submit a report which will be seen by all moderators and forum administrators, you may use the 'Contact Us' link at the bottom of the page which will be seen by forum administrators, or you may send a PM directly to any of the forum administrators.


----------



## pixmedic

Derrel said:


> This "Forbidden Zone" is where the nudie pics are located, yes?



we call it "the subscribers forum" 

you can even check out one of my best calls ever there!


----------



## table1349

tirediron said:


> Josh100LuBu said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...WE didn't cover anything, YOU made up a bunch of nonsense and passed it off as truth and fact. Please, keep up.
> 
> 
> 
> I refuse to believe that anyone could possibly be as obtuse as you appear to be, and therefore must assume that you are in fact trolling the board for some as-yet, uknown reason.  Given that, any further rude or inappropriate comments directed toward any member, moderator or not, of this board will earn you an extended posting vacation.
Click to expand...

Oh I can.  Come work with me for a week or two and you would be amazed.  I suspect the pixmedic is in a similar profession as mine.  If so I am sure he understands.


----------



## Gary A.

@Josh100LuBu:

Dude ... we need to scale this back. There are many here who would appreciate your vision. But, (the big but), your lack of humility is a big turn off for many. The truth is that there is a lot that you can learn from the members of this forum in creativity, post processing and photography. But, what I gather/feel from your posts, is that you have nothing to learn and that we are privileged to have you on this site. Your lack of humility, when crossed referenced with the technical quality of your images, will and have created a hostile environment.

Remember that respect is earned.


----------



## jsecordphoto




----------



## BrickHouse

I'm just going to leave this here:

"Schizotypal personality disorder is characterized by a pattern of social and interpersonal deficits marked by acute discomfort with, and reduced capacity for, close relationships as well as by cognitive or perceptual distortions and eccentricities of behavior, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

Ideas of reference (excluding delusions of reference)
Odd beliefs or magical thinking that influences behavior and is inconsistent with subcultural norms (e.g., superstitiousness, belief in clairvoyance, telepathy, or “sixth sense”; in children and adolescents, bizarre fantasies or preoccupations)
Unusual perceptual experiences, including bodily illusions
Odd thinking and speech (e.g., vague, circumstantial, metaphorical, overelaborate, or stereotyped)
Suspiciousness or paranoid ideation
Inappropriate or constricted affect
Behavior or appearance that is odd, eccentric, or peculiar
Lack of close friends or confidants other than first-degree relatives
Excessive social anxiety that does not diminish with familiarity and tends to be associated with paranoid fears rather than negative judgments about self"


----------



## otherprof

Josh100LuBu said:


> Many photographers play it safe and ridicule others that go the extra mile, they refer to unusual photography as 'The Forbidden Zone' and if you cross into that territory you are pretty much lynched! How have you broken the limitations of vanilla photography and what has inspired you to be different?


Just because chicken ripple is an acquired taste, that doesn't mean it is better than vanilla. At the same time, I've seen plenty of photography on this site that pushed the envelope and was immediately and enthusiastically applauded, both for being different AND for being worth looking at. Granted, different people have different taste, and that's why they make vanilla, chocolate and strawberry, but not every innovation is worth making. 
I am wondering what criteria you think make a photograph "vanilla"? 50mm lens on fx? Black and white? Portrait? Old barn?


----------



## Josh100LuBu

BrickHouse said:


> I'm just going to leave this here:
> 
> "Schizotypal personality disorder is characterized by a pattern of social and interpersonal deficits marked by acute discomfort with, and reduced capacity for, close relationships as well as by cognitive or perceptual distortions and eccentricities of behavior, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:
> 
> Ideas of reference (excluding delusions of reference)
> Odd beliefs or magical thinking that influences behavior and is inconsistent with subcultural norms (e.g., superstitiousness, belief in clairvoyance, telepathy, or “sixth sense”; in children and adolescents, bizarre fantasies or preoccupations)
> Unusual perceptual experiences, including bodily illusions
> Odd thinking and speech (e.g., vague, circumstantial, metaphorical, overelaborate, or stereotyped)
> Suspiciousness or paranoid ideation
> Inappropriate or constricted affect
> Behavior or appearance that is odd, eccentric, or peculiar
> Lack of close friends or confidants other than first-degree relatives
> Excessive social anxiety that does not diminish with familiarity and tends to be associated with paranoid fears rather than negative judgments about self"


I've never heard of such crap, what happened to being passionate about life? Being completely and entirely intense about being alive? What happened to true creativity and not listening to the naysayers? So many people are living in the same prison mindset of narrow judgement and ridicule, they don't go out of their comfort zones anymore and if someone eventually tries anything unique or different then they are bashed for having a personalty disorder. It puts the decay of society into perspective of how everyone is slowing becoming these generic robots. To achieve crazy ambitions you have to be crazy enough to believe you CAN in the first place.


----------



## tecboy

Josh100LuBu said:


> BrickHouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just going to leave this here:
> 
> "Schizotypal personality disorder is characterized by a pattern of social and interpersonal deficits marked by acute discomfort with, and reduced capacity for, close relationships as well as by cognitive or perceptual distortions and eccentricities of behavior, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:
> 
> Ideas of reference (excluding delusions of reference)
> Odd beliefs or magical thinking that influences behavior and is inconsistent with subcultural norms (e.g., superstitiousness, belief in clairvoyance, telepathy, or “sixth sense”; in children and adolescents, bizarre fantasies or preoccupations)
> Unusual perceptual experiences, including bodily illusions
> Odd thinking and speech (e.g., vague, circumstantial, metaphorical, overelaborate, or stereotyped)
> Suspiciousness or paranoid ideation
> Inappropriate or constricted affect
> Behavior or appearance that is odd, eccentric, or peculiar
> Lack of close friends or confidants other than first-degree relatives
> Excessive social anxiety that does not diminish with familiarity and tends to be associated with paranoid fears rather than negative judgments about self"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've never heard of such crap, what happened to being passionate about life? Being completely and entirely intense about being alive? What happened to true creativity and not listening to the naysayers? So many people are living in the same prison mindset of narrow judgement and ridicule, they don't go out of their comfort zones anymore and if someone eventually tries anything unique or different then they are bashed for having a personalty disorder. It puts the decay of society into perspective of how everyone is slowing becoming these generic robots. To achieve crazy ambitions you have to be crazy enough to believe you CAN in the first place.
Click to expand...


You believe in Captain Lamet, right!


----------



## 480sparky

Josh100LuBu said:


> I've never heard of such crap, what happened to being passionate about life? Being completely and entirely intense about being alive? What happened to true creativity and not listening to the naysayers? So many people are living in the same prison mindset of narrow judgement and ridicule, they don't go out of their comfort zones anymore and if someone eventually tries anything unique or different then they are bashed for having a personalty disorder. It puts the decay of society into perspective of how everyone is slowing becoming these generic robots. To achieve crazy ambitions you have to be crazy enough to believe you CAN in the first place.



Print this out, then hold it up while looking in a mirror.  Your own words are a reflection of yourself.


----------



## BrickHouse

Josh100LuBu said:


> I've never heard of such crap, what happened to being passionate about life? Being completely and entirely intense about being alive? What happened to true creativity and not listening to the naysayers? So many people are living in the same prison mindset of narrow judgement and ridicule, they don't go out of their comfort zones anymore and if someone eventually tries anything unique or different then they are bashed for having a personalty disorder. It puts the decay of society into perspective of how everyone is slowing becoming these generic robots. To achieve crazy ambitions you have to be crazy enough to believe you CAN in the first place.


 
Me thinks I hit a nerve...


----------



## BillM

I'm going to start a company selling troll food, you are all going to make me rich LOL


----------



## Josh100LuBu

tecboy said:


> Josh100LuBu said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BrickHouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just going to leave this here:
> 
> "Schizotypal personality disorder is characterized by a pattern of social and interpersonal deficits marked by acute discomfort with, and reduced capacity for, close relationships as well as by cognitive or perceptual distortions and eccentricities of behavior, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:
> 
> Ideas of reference (excluding delusions of reference)
> Odd beliefs or magical thinking that influences behavior and is inconsistent with subcultural norms (e.g., superstitiousness, belief in clairvoyance, telepathy, or “sixth sense”; in children and adolescents, bizarre fantasies or preoccupations)
> Unusual perceptual experiences, including bodily illusions
> Odd thinking and speech (e.g., vague, circumstantial, metaphorical, overelaborate, or stereotyped)
> Suspiciousness or paranoid ideation
> Inappropriate or constricted affect
> Behavior or appearance that is odd, eccentric, or peculiar
> Lack of close friends or confidants other than first-degree relatives
> Excessive social anxiety that does not diminish with familiarity and tends to be associated with paranoid fears rather than negative judgments about self"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've never heard of such crap, what happened to being passionate about life? Being completely and entirely intense about being alive? What happened to true creativity and not listening to the naysayers? So many people are living in the same prison mindset of narrow judgement and ridicule, they don't go out of their comfort zones anymore and if someone eventually tries anything unique or different then they are bashed for having a personalty disorder. It puts the decay of society into perspective of how everyone is slowing becoming these generic robots. To achieve crazy ambitions you have to be crazy enough to believe you CAN in the first place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You believe in Captain Lamet, right!
Click to expand...

Has nothing to do with believing anything, it's your experience of life that develops who you are, i've had some powerful 'supernatural' experiences and a big spiritual awakening.


----------



## table1349

BrickHouse said:


> Josh100LuBu said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've never heard of such crap, what happened to being passionate about life? Being completely and entirely intense about being alive? What happened to true creativity and not listening to the naysayers? So many people are living in the same prison mindset of narrow judgement and ridicule, they don't go out of their comfort zones anymore and if someone eventually tries anything unique or different then they are bashed for having a personalty disorder. It puts the decay of society into perspective of how everyone is slowing becoming these generic robots. To achieve crazy ambitions you have to be crazy enough to believe you CAN in the first place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Me thinks I hit a nerve...
Click to expand...

The truth always hurts far more than a fairy tale.


----------



## Josh100LuBu

480sparky said:


> Josh100LuBu said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've never heard of such crap, what happened to being passionate about life? Being completely and entirely intense about being alive? What happened to true creativity and not listening to the naysayers? So many people are living in the same prison mindset of narrow judgement and ridicule, they don't go out of their comfort zones anymore and if someone eventually tries anything unique or different then they are bashed for having a personalty disorder. It puts the decay of society into perspective of how everyone is slowing becoming these generic robots. To achieve crazy ambitions you have to be crazy enough to believe you CAN in the first place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Print this out, then hold it up while looking in a mirror.  Your own words are a reflection of yourself.
Click to expand...

A reflection of myself because i'm driven by passion and intensity rather than the mundane order of society, follow the herd and you will go where they go, try finding your own way.


----------



## table1349

Josh100LuBu said:


> tecboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Josh100LuBu said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BrickHouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just going to leave this here:
> 
> "Schizotypal personality disorder is characterized by a pattern of social and interpersonal deficits marked by acute discomfort with, and reduced capacity for, close relationships as well as by cognitive or perceptual distortions and eccentricities of behavior, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:
> 
> Ideas of reference (excluding delusions of reference)
> Odd beliefs or magical thinking that influences behavior and is inconsistent with subcultural norms (e.g., superstitiousness, belief in clairvoyance, telepathy, or “sixth sense”; in children and adolescents, bizarre fantasies or preoccupations)
> Unusual perceptual experiences, including bodily illusions
> Odd thinking and speech (e.g., vague, circumstantial, metaphorical, overelaborate, or stereotyped)
> Suspiciousness or paranoid ideation
> Inappropriate or constricted affect
> Behavior or appearance that is odd, eccentric, or peculiar
> Lack of close friends or confidants other than first-degree relatives
> Excessive social anxiety that does not diminish with familiarity and tends to be associated with paranoid fears rather than negative judgments about self"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've never heard of such crap, what happened to being passionate about life? Being completely and entirely intense about being alive? What happened to true creativity and not listening to the naysayers? So many people are living in the same prison mindset of narrow judgement and ridicule, they don't go out of their comfort zones anymore and if someone eventually tries anything unique or different then they are bashed for having a personalty disorder. It puts the decay of society into perspective of how everyone is slowing becoming these generic robots. To achieve crazy ambitions you have to be crazy enough to believe you CAN in the first place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You believe in Captain Lamet, right!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Has nothing to do with believing anything, it's your experience of life that develops who you are, i've had some powerful 'supernatural' experiences and a big spiritual awakening.
Click to expand...

http://memecrunch.com/meme/N56V/troll-drugs/image.png?w=500&c=1


----------



## Josh100LuBu

gryphonslair99 said:


> BrickHouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Josh100LuBu said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've never heard of such crap, what happened to being passionate about life? Being completely and entirely intense about being alive? What happened to true creativity and not listening to the naysayers? So many people are living in the same prison mindset of narrow judgement and ridicule, they don't go out of their comfort zones anymore and if someone eventually tries anything unique or different then they are bashed for having a personalty disorder. It puts the decay of society into perspective of how everyone is slowing becoming these generic robots. To achieve crazy ambitions you have to be crazy enough to believe you CAN in the first place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Me thinks I hit a nerve...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The truth always hurts far more than a fairy tale.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't call anything truth, who knows for sure anyway? Nothing is so certain. If you think you have figured out life then you have a long way to go.


----------



## 480sparky

Josh100LuBu said:


> A reflection of myself because i'm driven by passion and intensity rather than the mundane order of society, follow the herd and you will go where they go, try finding your own way.



It's a reflection of you.... not wanting to accept others, while demanding they accept you.  It's called duplicity.

Your entire premise has been "I'm right, so accept me.  But you're wrong, so I should not accept you."  When the truth is, "I'm different from you so accept me, but you're different from me so I cannot accept you."


----------



## Buckster

Josh100LuBu said:


> I wouldn't call anything truth, who knows for sure anyway? Nothing is so certain. If you think you have figured out life then you have a long way to go.


Say that to yourself over and over and over until your brain melts from sheer irony.


----------



## table1349

Josh100LuBu said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BrickHouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Josh100LuBu said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've never heard of such crap, what happened to being passionate about life? Being completely and entirely intense about being alive? What happened to true creativity and not listening to the naysayers? So many people are living in the same prison mindset of narrow judgement and ridicule, they don't go out of their comfort zones anymore and if someone eventually tries anything unique or different then they are bashed for having a personalty disorder. It puts the decay of society into perspective of how everyone is slowing becoming these generic robots. To achieve crazy ambitions you have to be crazy enough to believe you CAN in the first place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Me thinks I hit a nerve...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The truth always hurts far more than a fairy tale.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *I wouldn't call anything truth,* who knows for sure anyway? Nothing is so certain. If you think you have figured out life then you have a long way to go.
Click to expand...

I would have to agree that there is no truth in what you have posted so far.


----------



## Gary A.

Josh100LuBu said:


> BrickHouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just going to leave this here:
> 
> "Schizotypal personality disorder is characterized by a pattern of social and interpersonal deficits marked by acute discomfort with, and reduced capacity for, close relationships as well as by cognitive or perceptual distortions and eccentricities of behavior, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:
> 
> Ideas of reference (excluding delusions of reference)
> Odd beliefs or magical thinking that influences behavior and is inconsistent with subcultural norms (e.g., superstitiousness, belief in clairvoyance, telepathy, or “sixth sense”; in children and adolescents, bizarre fantasies or preoccupations)
> Unusual perceptual experiences, including bodily illusions
> Odd thinking and speech (e.g., vague, circumstantial, metaphorical, overelaborate, or stereotyped)
> Suspiciousness or paranoid ideation
> Inappropriate or constricted affect
> Behavior or appearance that is odd, eccentric, or peculiar
> Lack of close friends or confidants other than first-degree relatives
> Excessive social anxiety that does not diminish with familiarity and tends to be associated with paranoid fears rather than negative judgments about self"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've never heard of such crap, what happened to being passionate about life? Being completely and entirely intense about being alive? What happened to true creativity and not listening to the naysayers? So many people are living in the same prison mindset of narrow judgement and ridicule, they don't go out of their comfort zones anymore and if someone eventually tries anything unique or different then they are bashed for having a personalty disorder. It puts the decay of society into perspective of how everyone is slowing becoming these generic robots. To achieve crazy ambitions you have to be crazy enough to believe you CAN in the first place.
Click to expand...

The members are reacting to your ... personality ... humbleness ... talent ... skill ... experience ... art ... ? You are like a lightning rod ... but not in a good/beneficial way.

Yes, high goals are more likely to be hit if you aim at them. But you still need to know how to shoot. You still need to know how to handle the tools to shoot. Just because you have ambitions doesn't mean you will attain them or that you even know how to attain them. The higher the goal the more work is required for attainment.

Or maybe ... you are so quick to tell other how great you are that there isn't any need for them to show appreciation for an Englander Lord leading a Chinese army. It is far more satisfying hearing praise from others than hearing from your lips how creative and artistic and unique and crazy ambitious you are. You need to start listening. At this point, you are not as great as you think. You may, or you may never, be as great as you self-proclaim ... but if you truly think there may be room for improvement in your 'art' ... you need to ask questions and listen.


----------



## snowbear

Methinks it is time for the 



Spoiler: magic button



Ignore


.


----------



## tecboy

I don't know about you guys, but I'm enjoying this thread.


----------



## Inga the Rottie

I don't know, I think one should sing loud, run fast, dance wild and have fun in life.  As long as it isn't hurting anyone else I say go for it.   Sometimes strange or unusual works, sometimes...it just works for the person doing it.  Either way if it all about having fun creating something what to lose?


----------



## table1349

Now this is creative.....


----------



## Designer

Josh100LuBu said:


> A reflection of myself because i'm driven by passion and intensity rather than the mundane order of society, follow the herd and you will go where they go, try finding your own way.


I'll speak mainly for myself, but I hope that others will agree. 

I appreciate creativity, drive, and strength, which I see in abundance in you, and I think you can add a lot to this site, but the members are offended by your belligerence.  

Go ahead and make art your way, just don't be offended by us making art in our own way.


----------



## table1349

pixmedic said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> 
> This "Forbidden Zone" is where the nudie pics are located, yes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> we call it "the subscribers forum"
> 
> you can even check out one of my best calls ever there!
Click to expand...

Off topic but I just had to ask....did you design this??


----------



## Vtec44

I'm one of the most arrogant wedding photographer I know, but even I know when to take it down a notch.


----------



## tirediron

Vtec44 said:


> I'm one of the most *arrogant wedding photographer* I know, but even I know when to turn it down a notch.


There's another kind?  Huh... who knew...


----------



## jovince3000

gryphonslair99 said:


> Now this is creative.....



.... I wouldn't want to be in front of him when he sneeze. 

Also, this guy's face is messed up for life ><


----------



## table1349

tirediron said:


> Vtec44 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm one of the most *arrogant wedding photographer* I know, but even I know when to turn it down a notch.
> 
> 
> 
> There's another kind?  Huh... who knew...
Click to expand...


Ohhh good, I'm glad I'm not the only one who though that "arrogant wedding photographer" sounded as redundant as "basic fundamentals"," or close proximity. "


----------



## Vtec44

tirediron said:


> There's another kind?  Huh... who knew...



Right?   

I walk into a wedding acting like my sh*t doesn't stink.   I order people around including the bride, and they pay me to do it.  I try not to let that get into my head.


----------



## table1349

Vtec44 said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's another kind?  Huh... who knew...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right?
> 
> I walk into a wedding acting like my sh*t doesn't stink.   I order people around including the bride, and they pay me to do it.  I try not to let that get into my head.
Click to expand...

That sounds like fun, but not near as much fun as watching naked women dance, picking up hookers, drinking in clubs, buying dope, stolen guns and other stuff *AND GETTING PAID FOR IT.*  To top it off I get to book the bad guys and girls when I'm done.


----------



## limr

BrickHouse said:


> Me thinks I hit a nerve...



I think you did, too. I believe that if he's not, in fact, a troll, then there's something else going on, perhaps an extremely low self-esteem? But then there are the delusions of grandeur and the willful denial of reality, such as the refusal to accept facts about copyright law, and the projection of mediocrity on others when he's probably afraid of the same in himself.



Inga the Rottie said:


> I don't know, I think one should sing loud, run fast, dance wild and have fun in life.  As long as it isn't hurting anyone else I say go for it.   Sometimes strange or unusual works, sometimes...it just works for the person doing it.  Either way if it all about having fun creating something what to lose?



Hey, he's got nothing to lose. I'm all for ignoring convention and doing what feels right to me. But what I also _don't_ do is join forums to mock people and tell them they all suck while I'm the best there is and you just can't handle me because I'm sooooo different.

As mentioned by others, this forum is populated by photographers who do mainstream stuff and others who are far from mainstream, and a whole bunch of people in between. Good pictures are lauded. Sometimes those pictures are mainstream, traditional pictures - pretty sunset, smooth water, well-lit portrait - and others are pushing boundaries and showing both technical skill and creative vision. Bad pictures will get criticism - mostly constructive, sometimes aggressive and blunt. If something is weird and different but is done well and it works, then folks will like it - not everyone, of course, but enough. Sometimes a photo just doesn't work, whether it's for technical or artistic reasons, but I don't recall anyone ever ridiculing a picture for being "too creative and different."

If the OP came with those pictures and did not get so defensive when the lack of technical merit was mentioned, no one would be reacting the way they are. Some folks have said specifically that there's definitely potential and it's good that he's thinking creatively, but a lot of work needs to be done on the technical aspect. Instead of taking the feedback with an open mind, he came back with insults and derision. We are not reacting to the idea of someone loving life, being creative and different. We're reacting to someone throwing a temper tantrum because he didn't get his way. He doesn't want feedback or community; he wants sycophants.


----------



## snerd

Josh100LuBu said:


> ......... i've had some powerful 'supernatural' experiences and a big spiritual awakening.


The Peyote Way Church of God Peyote Cultivation


----------



## Josh100LuBu

snerd said:


> Josh100LuBu said:
> 
> 
> 
> ......... i've had some powerful 'supernatural' experiences and a big spiritual awakening.
> 
> 
> 
> The Peyote Way Church of God Peyote Cultivation
Click to expand...

I'm not chasing anything but my own goals in this reality, I have a huge amount of self belief and an incredible drive to succeed in whatever I do. I thrive off of the challenge, I much rather prefer the harder way than the easier one. Firstly finding a forum to accommodate my level of art is rare and secondly it wouldn't push me enough to break the limits. You have to go outside of your comfort zone as I keep telling you all, only then will you grow and thrive.


----------



## snerd

Josh100LuBu said:


> snerd said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Josh100LuBu said:
> 
> 
> 
> ......... i've had some powerful 'supernatural' experiences and a big spiritual awakening.
> 
> 
> 
> The Peyote Way Church of God Peyote Cultivation
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not chasing anything but my own goals in this reality, I have a huge amount of self belief and an incredible drive to succeed in whatever I do. I thrive off of the challenge, I much rather prefer the harder way than the easier one. Firstly finding a forum to accommodate my level of art is rare and secondly it wouldn't push me enough to break the limits. You have to go outside of your comfort zone as I keep telling you all, only then will you grow and thrive.
Click to expand...

Okie Dokie.


----------



## Josh100LuBu

Designer said:


> Josh100LuBu said:
> 
> 
> 
> A reflection of myself because i'm driven by passion and intensity rather than the mundane order of society, follow the herd and you will go where they go, try finding your own way.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll speak mainly for myself, but I hope that others will agree.
> 
> I appreciate creativity, drive, and strength, which I see in abundance in you, and I think you can add a lot to this site, but the members are offended by your belligerence.
> 
> Go ahead and make art your way, just don't be offended by us making art in our own way.
Click to expand...

People who are offended by me are insecure, can't say anything else about that. When I meet interesting people I try and see what makes them tick, I don't ever ask for advice because i'm already set but I still enjoy listening to their stories. I love to be inspired by those elite few who don't pay a scrap of attention to what anyone says, they just do their thing and they do it mercilessly and that is true freedom of expression.


----------



## snerd

Josh100LuBu said:


> ........  I don't ever ask for advice because i'm already set........


So, what exactly is it you're wanting here?


----------



## Josh100LuBu

snerd said:


> Josh100LuBu said:
> 
> 
> 
> ........  I don't ever ask for advice because i'm already set........
> 
> 
> 
> So, what exactly is it you're wanting here?
Click to expand...

I have my own mind, we all do. Don't think I came here looking for reviews. I'm here to change the perceptions of creativity entirely, I desire a change in the art community. The next time somebody takes a photograph of an empty filed on a Summers day, this freaks going to work twice as hard to get real original artists some much deserved exposure. Everything changes eventually but old traditions don't budge unless they are pushed.


----------



## Vtec44

Josh100LuBu said:


> I have my own mind, we all do. Don't think I came here looking for reviews. I'm here to change the perceptions of creativity entirely, I desire a change in the art community. The next time somebody takes a photograph of an empty filed on a Summers day, this freaks going to work twice as hard to get real original artists some much deserved exposure. Everything changes eventually but old traditions don't budge unless they are pushed.



The challenge is, do you know how to take a standard photo of an empty field on a Summer day?  There are basic technical knowledge and composition you need to understand for you to even take a simple photo.  Without the basic knowledge of the art itself, you don't really know where is the boundary to push.   Calling is some sort of higher level of art is nothing more but an excuse of being lazy and not learning.  It's unoriginal because we all have seen it before.  You're not the first and won't be the last.


----------



## tirediron

Josh100LuBu said:


> I'm not chasing anything but my own goals in this reality, I have a huge amount of self belief and an incredible drive to succeed in whatever I do. I thrive off of the challenge, I much rather prefer the harder way than the easier one. Firstly* finding a forum to accommodate my level of art is rare* and secondly it wouldn't push me enough to break the limits. You have to go outside of your comfort zone as I keep telling you all, only then will you grow and thrive.





Josh100LuBu said:


> snerd said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Josh100LuBu said:
> 
> 
> 
> ........  *I don't ever ask for advice because i'm already set.*.......
> 
> 
> 
> So, what exactly is it you're wanting here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have my own mind, we all do. Don't think I came here looking for reviews. *I'm here to change the perceptions of creativity entirely, I desire a change in the art community. *The next time somebody takes a photograph of an empty filed on a Summers day, this freaks going to work twice as hard to get real original artists some much deserved exposure. Everything changes eventually but old traditions don't budge unless they are pushed.
Click to expand...




Josh100LuBu said:


> *People who are offended by me are insecure*, can't say anything else about that. When I meet interesting people I try and see what makes them tick, I don't ever ask for advice because i'm already set but I still enjoy listening to their stories. I love to be inspired by those elite few who don't pay a scrap of attention to what anyone says, they just do their thing and they do it mercilessly and that is true freedom of expression.


Wow...


----------



## jovince3000

@Josh100LuBu While all of this (massively out of proportion joke) is fun to me, I think this has become way out of proportion. Even though I'm fairly new, as a member of this forum and this community,  my question to you is ;

Are you genuinely interested to converse about photography as an art, no matter the creative choice of the individual, to help the community and its people to grow and thrive as photographers in their craft, style and techniques and in return, receive the same, fair treatment?

OR

Are you here only to promote your own "talents" and are not open to receive critiques by the member of this community.

If your answer to the first question is yes, then please revise your way of acting and if you do, I'm pretty sure I can talk for everyone here, that people will welcome you as a member of this community. Right now with the way you've acted in the previous thread and this one,  I can only regard you as a selfish, attention-fishing asshole. You may report me if you want, moderator are free to punish what I just said as I entirely assume it. But I will not apologize as that is genuinely what my first impression is of you and I'm sure it is the same for most people here. If you are ready to understand what caused it and to change it, I will then be pleased to address apologies in due time and truly welcome you.

If you are not willing to change your way of acting with us, or if you answered yes to the second question. Now I have no right to force you or anything, but as a member of this community, I'm asking you to leave as you do not have your place here.


----------



## jsecordphoto

this thread


----------



## 480sparky

OK.  It's settled.  The OP is the best damned photographer in the entire cosmos, and the rest of us are insecure and not worthy of critiquing him.


----------



## Derrel

I noticed at the bottom of the page, there's a "similar threads" entry from 2009, entitled "*Breaking Down the Walls of Predictability*", by former member benjikan. That thread might bear viewing in light of how this one is playing out. Breaking Down the Walls of Predictability Photography Forum


----------



## limr

480sparky said:


> OK.  It's settled.  The OP is the best damned photographer in the entire cosmos, and the rest of us are insecure and not worthy of critiquing him.



Oh, but we'll learn the error of our ways. Just imagine - all this time, we thought underexposure and noise and overcooked, outdated effects were undesirable in an image, but now we can see the light! Or the lack thereof!


----------



## Josh100LuBu

jovince3000 said:


> @Josh100LuBu While all of this (massively out of proportion joke) is fun to me, I think this has become way out of proportion. Even though I'm fairly new, as a member of this forum and this community,  my question to you is ;
> 
> Are you genuinely interested to converse about photography as an art, no matter the creative choice of the individual, to help the community and its people to grow and thrive as photographers in their craft, style and techniques and in return, receive the same, fair treatment?
> 
> OR
> 
> Are you here only to promote your own "talents" and are not open to receive critiques by the member of this community.
> 
> If your answer to the first question is yes, then please revise your way of acting and if you do, I'm pretty sure I can talk for everyone here, that people will welcome you as a member of this community. Right now with the way you've acted in the previous thread and this one,  I can only regard you as a selfish, attention-fishing asshole. You may report me if you want, moderator are free to punish what I just said as I entirely assume it. But I will not apologize as that is genuinely what my first impression is of you and I'm sure it is the same for most people here. If you are ready to understand what caused it and to change it, I will then be pleased to address apologies in due time and truly welcome you.
> 
> If you are not willing to change your way of acting with us, or if you answered yes to the second question. Now I have no right to force you or anything, but as a member of this community, I'm asking you to leave as you do not have your place here.


First of all, you requested me to leave so I will decline that request because it isn't an order. Secondly, i'm not obliged to answer those questions at all but for the sake of this debate I will answer them directly. I am here to change the perceptions of the vanilla photographer, i'm here to usher in a new age of photography. This community needs a good face-lift and nobody else seems to be doing it. I am passionate about this and I want a positive change here in the community that would benefit a whole new category of artists who perhaps don't have the thick skin to publish their work on here like I have in fear of ridicule. Whilst you may love the traditions of old most up and coming artists really don't value it as much as the older guys, that is the truth and changing the way the system works would draw more people in. I go out protesting in real life, I am heavily involved in the truth movements in Britain and believe me this is a worthy cause for concern. Change with the times or the times will leave you in the dust.


----------



## jsecordphoto

if your bio is correct you're 19 or 20? That would explain how naive you are. Or maybe you're just trolling, who knows.

Either way, the worst part of this thread (which is truly bad) is that there is 10 pages of people responding to your tomfoolery, but amazing photography on here gets 2-3 pages of discussion max.


----------



## 480sparky

Josh100LuBu said:


> First of all, you requested me to leave so I will decline that request because it isn't an order. Secondly, i'm not obliged to answer those questions at all but for the sake of this debate I will answer them directly. I am here to change the perceptions of the vanilla photographer, i'm here to usher in a new age of photography. This community needs a good face-lift and nobody else seems to be doing it. I am passionate about this and I want a positive change here in the community that would benefit a whole new category of artists who perhaps don't have the thick skin to publish their work on here like I have in fear of ridicule. Whilst you may love the traditions of old most up and coming artists really don't value it as much as the older guys, that is the truth and changing the way the system works would draw more people in. I go out protesting in real life, I am heavily involved in the truth movements in Britain and believe me this is a worthy cause for concern. Change with the times or the times will leave you in the dust.



...........................................................................






Are you serious?  Your mission here is to re-eduate us?  Teach us all YOUR vision, and expect us all to blindly follow?

Forget it.  Ain't gonna happen.

But please keep posting.  I love the entertainment value. We all need a good laugh.


----------



## Josh100LuBu

480sparky said:


> Josh100LuBu said:
> 
> 
> 
> First of all, you requested me to leave so I will decline that request because it isn't an order. Secondly, i'm not obliged to answer those questions at all but for the sake of this debate I will answer them directly. I am here to change the perceptions of the vanilla photographer, i'm here to usher in a new age of photography. This community needs a good face-lift and nobody else seems to be doing it. I am passionate about this and I want a positive change here in the community that would benefit a whole new category of artists who perhaps don't have the thick skin to publish their work on here like I have in fear of ridicule. Whilst you may love the traditions of old most up and coming artists really don't value it as much as the older guys, that is the truth and changing the way the system works would draw more people in. I go out protesting in real life, I am heavily involved in the truth movements in Britain and believe me this is a worthy cause for concern. Change with the times or the times will leave you in the dust.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...........................................................................
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you serious?  Your mission here is to re-eduate us?  Teach us all YOUR vision, and expect us all to blindly follow?
> 
> Forget it.  Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> But please keep posting.  I love the entertainment value. We all need a good laugh.
Click to expand...

Blindly follow? Being ignorant is a choice.


----------



## 480sparky

Josh100LuBu said:


> Blindly follow? Being ignorant is a choice.




Given the choice, then........ I _prefer_ to be ignorant.


----------



## limr

480sparky said:


> Josh100LuBu said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blindly follow? Being ignorant is a choice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Given the choice, then........ I _prefer_ to be ignorant.
Click to expand...


Well, he _does_ choose to be ignorant of copyright law.


----------



## jsecordphoto

Josh100LuBu said:


> Being ignorant is a choice.



what's your reason then?


----------



## jovince3000

Thanks for your answer. I can now affirm with certainty.

You're an ... (sorry, moderator who edited this. Jov')

Now, I didn't expect to have to learn how to use it that fast, but I will proceed to use the ignore function. It was fun at the beginning but honestly now I've grew bored of this. I hope one day you get yourself straight and realize you're just a human being as good as the next one. I still won't wish you arm, but I think in your case a good punch in the face might help a lot. Lead a good life.


----------



## tirediron

Josh100LuBu said:


> First of all, you requested me to leave so I will decline that request because it isn't an order.


  No, it wasn't.  When it is time for you to leave, one of the moderating staff will point it out.  



Josh100LuBu said:


> Secondly, i'm not obliged to answer those questions at all but for the sake of this debate I will answer them directly. I am here to change the perceptions of the vanilla photographer, i'm here to usher in a new age of photography. This community needs a good face-lift and nobody else seems to be doing it.


Fine, but do it politely and with respect for the other members! 



Josh100LuBu said:


> I am passionate about this and I want a positive change here in the community that would benefit a whole new category of artists who perhaps don't have the thick skin to publish their work on here like I have in fear of ridicule. Whilst you may love the traditions of old most up and coming artists really don't value it as much as the older guys, that is the truth and changing the way the system works would draw more people in. I go out protesting in real life, I am heavily involved in the truth movements in Britain and believe me this is a worthy cause for concern. Change with the times or the times will leave you in the dust.


Passion is fine, but again, respect for others, please.


----------



## snerd

Josh100LuBu said:


> jovince3000 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Josh100LuBu While all of this (massively out of proportion joke) is fun to me, I think this has become way out of proportion. Even though I'm fairly new, as a member of this forum and this community,  my question to you is ;
> 
> Are you genuinely interested to converse about photography as an art, no matter the creative choice of the individual, to help the community and its people to grow and thrive as photographers in their craft, style and techniques and in return, receive the same, fair treatment?
> 
> OR
> 
> Are you here only to promote your own "talents" and are not open to receive critiques by the member of this community.
> 
> If your answer to the first question is yes, then please revise your way of acting and if you do, I'm pretty sure I can talk for everyone here, that people will welcome you as a member of this community. Right now with the way you've acted in the previous thread and this one,  I can only regard you as a selfish, attention-fishing asshole. You may report me if you want, moderator are free to punish what I just said as I entirely assume it. But I will not apologize as that is genuinely what my first impression is of you and I'm sure it is the same for most people here. If you are ready to understand what caused it and to change it, I will then be pleased to address apologies in due time and truly welcome you.
> 
> If you are not willing to change your way of acting with us, or if you answered yes to the second question. Now I have no right to force you or anything, but as a member of this community, I'm asking you to leave as you do not have your place here.
> 
> 
> 
> First of all, you requested me to leave so I will decline that request because it isn't an order. Secondly, i'm not obliged to answer those questions at all but for the sake of this debate I will answer them directly. I am here to change the perceptions of the vanilla photographer, i'm here to usher in a new age of photography. This community needs a good face-lift and nobody else seems to be doing it. I am passionate about this and I want a positive change here in the community that would benefit a whole new category of artists who perhaps don't have the thick skin to publish their work on here like I have in fear of ridicule. Whilst you may love the traditions of old most up and coming artists really don't value it as much as the older guys, that is the truth and changing the way the system works would draw more people in. I go out protesting in real life, I am heavily involved in the truth movements in Britain and believe me this is a worthy cause for concern. Change with the times or the times will leave you in the dust.
Click to expand...


----------



## limr

jovince3000 said:


> Thanks for your answer. I can now affirm with certainty.
> 
> You're an idiot.
> 
> Now, I didn't expect to have to learn how to use it that fast, but I will proceed to use the ignore function. It was fun at the beginning but honestly now I've grew bored of this. I hope one day you get yourself straight and realize you're just a human being as good as the next one. I still won't wish you arm, but I think in your case a good punch in the face might help a lot. Lead a good life.



To be honest, I don't think he's an idiot, but rather a lonely kid who is so desperate for attention that he'll take anything he can get, even if he has to force it out of people by being a tool. I think that's pretty sad. But I do agree with you on one thing: it's time to stop giving him that attention. I believe Derrel may have been making that point earlier in this thread, and perhaps it's time to take that advice.


----------



## Trever1t

good is good, bad is not good. Bad is always easy to spot. Sometimes good is difficult to see but nobody says good is bad.


----------



## snerd

Yeah, it was kind of fun. Hopefully he'll have a change of heart and become a contributing member, not just being a Magnificent Member.


----------



## Vtec44

limr said:


> jovince3000 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your answer. I can now affirm with certainty.
> To be honest, I don't think he's an idiot, but rather a lonely kid who is so desperate for attention that he'll take anything he can get, even if he has to force it out of people by being a tool. I think that's pretty sad. But I do agree with you on one thing: it's time to stop giving him that attention. I believe Derrel may have been making that point earlier in this thread, and perhaps it's time to take that advice.
Click to expand...


Yep.  If anything, he needs to see a psychiatrist.


----------



## syaudi

jsecordphoto said:


> if your bio is correct you're 19 or 20? That would explain how naive you are. Or maybe you're just trolling, who knows.


sometimes I forget that most of the major posters here are nearly 2.5 times my age (I'm 17). being naive works pretty well for me. I'll think to myself "hey look I can do good photos too." and then I'll get on this forum and someone's posted something new and then I go "that's _awesome! _I want to try that!"
the process of learning itself is fun. thinking I've reached the relative top and then suddenly realising I could go even further - something I only ever learn from this forum.
OP, on the other hand...too much courage can be detrimental. a lone warrior fighting a full regiment can just as soon die a fool as he will a hero.
I'd say you're pretty close to the 'fool' part.


----------



## tecboy

This thread ranks #1 in popular discussions.  That is amazing!


----------



## pgriz

In some ways, this thread is illustrating a certain phenomenon that is rather common.

When I was around 17-20, I thought I really understood how the world worked, and even better, how it SHOULD work.  The old, tired ways of thinking (as exhibited by my parents, teachers, and other fuddy-duddies), had to be shown for the pretenses they were.  By the time I was about 24, (graduated, working, in a serious relationship), I started to appreciate that the "old, tired" ways were there partly due to circumstance, partly because of human nature, and partly because they worked for the majority of people.  By my early 30's with the challenges of being a father, balancing a career, continuing my education, and being a husband to my wife, all continued to teach me that there was so much I was still ignorant of.

As my daughters grew up, they too went through this phase of questioning all authority, all precedents, all assumptions.  For a while, my oldest daughter went through a phase of burning us CD's of the music she thought we needed to update ourselves with, and would send us articles about how the world really worked.  It pained her deeply that we were so blind, so unaware, and so un-cultured.  My other daughters also went through this phase, but in outwardly different ways.    My brothers and sisters (in law) as they raised THEIR families, went through rather similar things.  It's a bit of a wonder, but as my daughters continued growing, they would come back more and more often for comments, advice and support.  Guess Mom and Dad did actually know a thing or two.  (as I found out that my parents had a pretty good idea of how the world actually worked).

Along the way, we learned about the heartbreak of losing close family members, going through life-threatening events, finding out and confronting major character flaws, finding ourselves in circumstances which were both very difficult and life-altering.  Humans are very complicated and contradictory beings, with both brilliance and idiocy, deep insight and obtuse stubbornness, inspiring and depressing, all mixed into an uneven mix.  Add to this the vagarities of history, custom, and circumstance, and one finds that navigating the human society can be a full-time challenge.  But you don't know what you don't know.  And the ability to truly appreciate consequence doesn't seem to fully develop until the mid-20ies (of course some may be precociously aware at 12, while others never ever get there).  

The OP, Josh, is on a journey of discovery.  His way of expressing himself is quite in the stream of people going through this stage of their life.His self-confidence (or arrogance) is also more or less typical.  I wish Josh continued success.  But Josh, even though for you it's your first time on this path, and the discovery is amazing, many of us have already passed this way before, so hopefully you will forgive us for not jumping with excitement at your exuberance.


----------



## jsecordphoto

syaudi said:


> jsecordphoto said:
> 
> 
> 
> if your bio is correct you're 19 or 20? That would explain how naive you are. Or maybe you're just trolling, who knows.
> 
> 
> 
> sometimes I forget that most of the major posters here are nearly 2.5 times my age (I'm 17). being naive works pretty well for me. I'll think to myself "hey look I can do good photos too." and then I'll get on this forum and someone's posted something new and then I go "that's _awesome! _I want to try that!"
> the process of learning itself is fun. thinking I've reached the relative top and then suddenly realising I could go even further - something I only ever learn from this forum.
> OP, on the other hand...too much courage can be detrimental. a lone warrior fighting a full regiment can just as soon die a fool as he will a hero.
> I'd say you're pretty close to the 'fool' part.
Click to expand...


For the record I'm only 26. Although I wasn't that much of a fool at 19-20,  I can remember thinking I had it all figured out.  It took a few hard lessons before I learned some humility


----------



## 480sparky

pgriz said:


> In some ways, this thread is illustrating a certain phenomenon that is rather common.
> 
> When I was around 17-20, I thought I really understood how the world worked, and even better, how it SHOULD work.  The old, tired ways of thinking (as exhibited by my parents, teachers, and other fuddy-duddies), had to be shown for the pretenses they were.  ..............



When I was 15, I was astounded how inept and dumb my parents were.  It was amazing how much better and smarter they were by the time I hit 35.


----------



## sm4him

Josh100LuBu said:


> *Firstly finding a forum to accommodate my level of art is rare*



I'd go so far as to say that to find a forum that adequately accommodates your art, and your ego, you'd have to just start one yourself. And you'd likely be the only member.  But hey, my dad used to often say, "Sometimes talking to yourself is the only way to get any intelligent conversation." 



Josh100LuBu said:


> You have to go outside of your comfort zone *as I keep telling you all*, only then will you grow and thrive.



It's SO very frustrating when you know it all and people won't listen to you try to enlighten them.
It'd be fun, though, to be around and watch your re-read this stuff when you're 60.  Hopefully, you won't "know" nearly as much by then.

Good luck with your art, and best wishes for your apparently imminent spiritual ascension.  

Imma just go back to taking my boring comfortable pictures now. Have a good life!


----------



## table1349

Josh100LuBu said:


> jovince3000 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Josh100LuBu While all of this (massively out of proportion joke) is fun to me, I think this has become way out of proportion. Even though I'm fairly new, as a member of this forum and this community,  my question to you is ;
> 
> Are you genuinely interested to converse about photography as an art, no matter the creative choice of the individual, to help the community and its people to grow and thrive as photographers in their craft, style and techniques and in return, receive the same, fair treatment?
> 
> OR
> 
> Are you here only to promote your own "talents" and are not open to receive critiques by the member of this community.
> 
> If your answer to the first question is yes, then please revise your way of acting and if you do, I'm pretty sure I can talk for everyone here, that people will welcome you as a member of this community. Right now with the way you've acted in the previous thread and this one,  I can only regard you as a selfish, attention-fishing asshole. You may report me if you want, moderator are free to punish what I just said as I entirely assume it. But I will not apologize as that is genuinely what my first impression is of you and I'm sure it is the same for most people here. If you are ready to understand what caused it and to change it, I will then be pleased to address apologies in due time and truly welcome you.
> 
> If you are not willing to change your way of acting with us, or if you answered yes to the second question. Now I have no right to force you or anything, but as a member of this community, I'm asking you to leave as you do not have your place here.
> 
> 
> 
> First of all, you requested me to leave so I will decline that request because it isn't an order. Secondly, i'm not obliged to answer those questions at all but for the sake of this debate I will answer them directly. I am here to change the perceptions of the vanilla photographer, i'm here to usher in a new age of photography. This community needs a good face-lift and nobody else seems to be doing it. I am passionate about this and I want a positive change here in the community that would benefit a whole new category of artists who perhaps don't have the thick skin to publish their work on here like I have in fear of ridicule. Whilst you may love the traditions of old most up and coming artists really don't value it as much as the older guys, that is the truth and changing the way the system works would draw more people in. I go out protesting in real life, I am heavily involved in the truth movements in Britain and believe me this is a worthy cause for concern. Change with the times or the times will leave you in the dust.
Click to expand...

When Warhol was creating his work it was inovative, fresh and relevant.  Picaso and Dalhi were inovative, fresh and relevant. What I have seen of yours is neither inovative, fresh and frankly it is irrelevant.  It is just your take on that which has already been done before you by your betters.  If it speaks to you then you should listen to it's cries for help. 

From reading you posts the only true passion you have is for yourself.  Van Gogh was an artist of true passion. He cut off an ear for love.  There is real truth in such an act.  

All you have done is to cut off your nose to spite your face.   Perhaps you should consider using that free health care you have over there to have your Trolliosis looked at.   Then move from Mum and Dads's house, get a job and join the real world.  Come back in ten years or so once you have lived in the real world.


----------



## bentcountershaft

"I reject your reality and substitute my own."


----------



## 480sparky

gryphonslair99 said:


> .... get a job and join the real world.  Come back in ten years or so once you have lived in the real world.



I like that idea.  The OP should open a restaurant.  And not one that serves 'vanilla' food either. 

The menu should include such visionary/culinary delights as squid casserole, Thin Mints with mayonnaise, t-bone steak smothered in  Skittles sauce, mashed potatoes with licorice, chocolate-covered pig uterus, fried cockroaches with a vinaigrette sauce, and sea urchin scones. Wash it down with a tuna milkshake,  Coke & ketsup or chocolate milk with orange juice.  What's on the dessert tray?  Liver merangue pie and strawberry popsicles with ranch dressing!

Yum! Yum!


----------



## pgriz

480sparky said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> 
> .... get a job and join the real world.  Come back in ten years or so once you have lived in the real world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I like that idea.  The OP should open a restaurant.  And not one that serves 'vanilla' food either.
> 
> The menu should include such visionary/culinary delights as squid casserole, Thin Mints with mayonnaise, t-bone steak smothered in  Skittles sauce, mashed potatoes with licorice, chocolate-covered pig uterus, fried cockroaches with a vinaigrette sauce, and sea urchin scones. Wash it down with a tuna milkshake,  Coke & ketsup or chocolate milk with orange juice.  What's on the dessert tray?  Liver merangue pie and strawberry popsicles with ranch dressing!
> 
> Yum! Yum!
Click to expand...


You know, Sparky, in some alternate universe, that will be main-stream fare.


----------



## tirediron

pgriz said:


> 480sparky said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> 
> .... get a job and join the real world.  Come back in ten years or so once you have lived in the real world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I like that idea.  The OP should open a restaurant.  And not one that serves 'vanilla' food either.
> 
> The menu should include such visionary/culinary delights as squid casserole, Thin Mints with mayonnaise, t-bone steak smothered in  Skittles sauce, mashed potatoes with licorice, chocolate-covered pig uterus, fried cockroaches with a vinaigrette sauce, and sea urchin scones. Wash it down with a tuna milkshake,  Coke & ketsup or chocolate milk with orange juice.  What's on the dessert tray?  Liver merangue pie and strawberry popsicles with ranch dressing!
> 
> Yum! Yum!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know, Sparky, in some alternate universe, that will be main-stream fare.
Click to expand...

 If you've ever eaten from a 'street meat' cart in south-east Asia, a lot of that already is; ask Lew!


----------



## 480sparky

pgriz said:


> You know, Sparky, in some alternate universe, that will be main-stream fare.



I'm sure the residents there would be thoroughly disgusted with my planned cookout for tonight of grilled ham & chicken, roasting ears, sun tea and home-made ice cream.







Oh, sorry.......... _vanilla_ ice cream.


----------



## table1349

480sparky said:


> pgriz said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know, Sparky, in some alternate universe, that will be main-stream fare.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure the residents there would be thoroughly disgusted with my planned cookout for tonight of grilled ham & chicken, roasting ears, sun tea and home-made ice cream.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, sorry.......... _vanilla_ ice cream.
Click to expand...

Not nearly as disgusted as eating a Big Mac in India.

Personally I think the OP watched A Clock Work Orange one to many times while on acid.


----------



## Josh100LuBu

gryphonslair99 said:


> Josh100LuBu said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jovince3000 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Josh100LuBu While all of this (massively out of proportion joke) is fun to me, I think this has become way out of proportion. Even though I'm fairly new, as a member of this forum and this community,  my question to you is ;
> 
> Are you genuinely interested to converse about photography as an art, no matter the creative choice of the individual, to help the community and its people to grow and thrive as photographers in their craft, style and techniques and in return, receive the same, fair treatment?
> 
> OR
> 
> Are you here only to promote your own "talents" and are not open to receive critiques by the member of this community.
> 
> If your answer to the first question is yes, then please revise your way of acting and if you do, I'm pretty sure I can talk for everyone here, that people will welcome you as a member of this community. Right now with the way you've acted in the previous thread and this one,  I can only regard you as a selfish, attention-fishing asshole. You may report me if you want, moderator are free to punish what I just said as I entirely assume it. But I will not apologize as that is genuinely what my first impression is of you and I'm sure it is the same for most people here. If you are ready to understand what caused it and to change it, I will then be pleased to address apologies in due time and truly welcome you.
> 
> If you are not willing to change your way of acting with us, or if you answered yes to the second question. Now I have no right to force you or anything, but as a member of this community, I'm asking you to leave as you do not have your place here.
> 
> 
> 
> First of all, you requested me to leave so I will decline that request because it isn't an order. Secondly, i'm not obliged to answer those questions at all but for the sake of this debate I will answer them directly. I am here to change the perceptions of the vanilla photographer, i'm here to usher in a new age of photography. This community needs a good face-lift and nobody else seems to be doing it. I am passionate about this and I want a positive change here in the community that would benefit a whole new category of artists who perhaps don't have the thick skin to publish their work on here like I have in fear of ridicule. Whilst you may love the traditions of old most up and coming artists really don't value it as much as the older guys, that is the truth and changing the way the system works would draw more people in. I go out protesting in real life, I am heavily involved in the truth movements in Britain and believe me this is a worthy cause for concern. Change with the times or the times will leave you in the dust.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When Warhol was creating his work it was inovative, fresh and relevant.  Picaso and Dalhi were inovative, fresh and relevant. What I have seen of yours is neither inovative, fresh and frankly it is irrelevant.  It is just your take on that which has already been done before you by your betters.  If it speaks to you then you should listen to it's cries for help.
> 
> From reading you posts the only true passion you have is for yourself.  Van Gogh was an artist of true passion. He cut off an ear for love.  There is real truth in such an act.
> 
> All you have done is to cut off your nose to spite your face.   Perhaps you should consider using that free health care you have over there to have your Trolliosis looked at.   Then move from Mum and Dads's house, get a job and join the real world.  Come back in ten years or so once you have lived in the real world.
Click to expand...

Your not qualified to make those judgements, your words have no weight or substance on me. The job doesn't define the man, moving out doesn't define the man. What defines the man is his character and the way he lives his life. What you are saying is be a cog in a machine, be another useless robot and keep your head down don't ask questions. I am not obliged in anyway to follow your requests and I'm not going to.


----------



## 480sparky

Josh100LuBu said:


> Your not qualified to make those judgements,........



Yet you summarily judge all the rest of us.  So what are YOUR qualifications?





Josh100LuBu said:


> ...... I am not obliged in anyway to follow your requests and I'm not going to.



And since we're all driving on a two-way street of real life, we're not obliged in any way to follow your _demands_.... and most likely the vast majority of us are not going to.


----------



## pgriz

@Josh100LuBu :  Josh, you're continuing to read from the script (yes, there is a scipt.  You're just not aware you're following the script.)


----------



## Gary A.

pgriz said:


> In some ways, this thread is illustrating a certain phenomenon that is rather common.
> 
> When I was around 17-20, I thought I really understood how the world worked, and even better, how it SHOULD work.  The old, tired ways of thinking (as exhibited by my parents, teachers, and other fuddy-duddies), had to be shown for the pretenses they were.  By the time I was about 24, (graduated, working, in a serious relationship), I started to appreciate that the "old, tired" ways were there partly due to circumstance, partly because of human nature, and partly because they worked for the majority of people.  By my early 30's with the challenges of being a father, balancing a career, continuing my education, and being a husband to my wife, all continued to teach me that there was so much I was still ignorant of.
> 
> As my daughters grew up, they too went through this phase of questioning all authority, all precedents, all assumptions.  For a while, my oldest daughter went through a phase of burning us CD's of the music she thought we needed to update ourselves with, and would send us articles about how the world really worked.  It pained her deeply that we were so blind, so unaware, and so un-cultured.  My other daughters also went through this phase, but in outwardly different ways.    My brothers and sisters (in law) as they raised THEIR families, went through rather similar things.  It's a bit of a wonder, but as my daughters continued growing, they would come back more and more often for comments, advice and support.  Guess Mom and Dad did actually know a thing or two.  (as I found out that my parents had a pretty good idea of how the world actually worked).
> 
> Along the way, we learned about the heartbreak of losing close family members, going through life-threatening events, finding out and confronting major character flaws, finding ourselves in circumstances which were both very difficult and life-altering.  Humans are very complicated and contradictory beings, with both brilliance and idiocy, deep insight and obtuse stubbornness, inspiring and depressing, all mixed into an uneven mix.  Add to this the vagarities of history, custom, and circumstance, and one finds that navigating the human society can be a full-time challenge.  But you don't know what you don't know.  And the ability to truly appreciate consequence doesn't seem to fully develop until the mid-20ies (of course some may be precociously aware at 12, while others never ever get there).
> 
> The OP, Josh, is on a journey of discovery.  His way of expressing himself is quite in the stream of people going through this stage of their life.His self-confidence (or arrogance) is also more or less typical.  I wish Josh continued success.  But Josh, even though for you it's your first time on this path, and the discovery is amazing, many of us have already passed this way before, so hopefully you will forgive us for not jumping with excitement at your exuberance.



It was the '60's and early 70's when I was in my teens. Times were tumultuous and I was content to observe it all.  But it was active observation ... journalism ... observe and report ... question everything. My self-confidence camouflaged the giant hole in my character which should have been filled with experience and skill.  Quiet observations, not only of what is happening around me, but also how other journalists did their job, got me through these times and life.   

Back to the op and my negativity ... there is a saying, If one person calls you a jackass, you can just ignore it. But when a number of people call you a jackass, you better start looking for a saddle.


----------



## snerd

Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Josh100LuBu

pgriz said:


> @Josh100LuBu :  Josh, you're continuing to read from the script (yes, there is a scipt.  You're just not aware you're following the script.)


What script is this? I'm curious to see what you will make up next.


----------



## bentcountershaft

You'll find out soon enough.  Or you won't.  It isn't up to him or us.  It's all up to you.


----------



## 480sparky

Josh100LuBu said:


> pgriz said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Josh100LuBu :  Josh, you're continuing to read from the script (yes, there is a scipt.  You're just not aware you're following the script.)
> 
> 
> 
> What script is this? I'm curious to see what you will make up next.
Click to expand...


Why not break out of your vanilla shell and find out for yourself?


----------



## Josh100LuBu

480sparky said:


> Josh100LuBu said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your not qualified to make those judgements,........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yet you summarily judge all the rest of us.  So what are YOUR qualifications?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Josh100LuBu said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...... I am not obliged in anyway to follow your requests and I'm not going to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And since we're all driving on a two-way street of real life, we're not obliged in any way to follow your _demands_.... and most likely the vast majority of us are not going to.
Click to expand...

I never gave you any orders or requests to do anything, I never once instructed you or anyone else to do anything on this forum. I'm qualified to speak about suppression of truth and people blindly following traditions because i've been on numerous protests and I run my own talkshow that deals with these subjects. I make podcasts that encourage people to quit their mundane jobs and pursue other more important goals. I like to empower people to master their own lives, have you ever listened to the David Icke weekly podcasts on the power of mindfulness? Well it's basically breaking free from the chains of structure and seeing the bigger picture of life in general. You weren't put on this planet to work 9 to 5 all day everyday and you don't have to.


----------



## bentcountershaft

I'm going to revise my thoughts and rule out the chance of you ever figuring out the script thing.


----------



## 480sparky

Josh100LuBu said:


> I never gave you any orders or requests to do anything, I never once instructed you or anyone else to do anything on this forum. I'm qualified to speak about suppression of truth and people blindly following traditions because i've been on numerous protests and I run my own talkshow that deals with these subjects. I make podcasts that encourage people to quit their mundane jobs and pursue other more important goals. I like to empower people to master their own lives, have you ever listened to the David Icke weekly podcasts on the power of mindfulness? Well it's basically breaking free from the chains of structure and seeing the bigger picture of life in general. You weren't put on this planet to work 9 to 5 all day everyday and you don't have to.



I'll reiterate the question for you.

_What are your qualifications? _


If that wasn't clear enough, I'll repeat it.
_
What are your qualifications? _


Didn't catch it?  Here it is again:
_
What are your qualifications? _


----------



## tirediron

Since there hasn't been any real discussion of photography in the last half-dozen or more pages, I've moved the topic to a more appropriate location.


----------



## limr

tirediron said:


> Since there hasn't been any real discussion of photography in the last half-dozen or more pages, I've moved the topic to a more appropriate location.



 The round file?


----------



## sm4him

tirediron said:


> Since there hasn't been any real discussion of photography in the last half-dozen or more pages, I've moved the topic to a more appropriate location.



I can think of an even more appropriate location for it.


----------



## Josh100LuBu

480sparky said:


> Josh100LuBu said:
> 
> 
> 
> I never gave you any orders or requests to do anything, I never once instructed you or anyone else to do anything on this forum. I'm qualified to speak about suppression of truth and people blindly following traditions because i've been on numerous protests and I run my own talkshow that deals with these subjects. I make podcasts that encourage people to quit their mundane jobs and pursue other more important goals. I like to empower people to master their own lives, have you ever listened to the David Icke weekly podcasts on the power of mindfulness? Well it's basically breaking free from the chains of structure and seeing the bigger picture of life in general. You weren't put on this planet to work 9 to 5 all day everyday and you don't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll reiterate the question for you.
> 
> _What are your qualifications? _
> 
> 
> If that wasn't clear enough, I'll repeat it.
> _
> What are your qualifications? _
> 
> 
> Didn't catch it?  Here it is again:
> _
> What are your qualifications? _
Click to expand...

You can't judge a human being from a piece of paper with a grade on it, you just can't do that. Society does that and from that we become lost and out of touch. I have ran my own talkshow that was very successful and continues to be so, it ranked number 1 on The Art of Manliness forums for a week and it attracted a lot of guests. I had a Sasquatch investigator on and a paranormal investigator. I doubt you have your own show and I doubt you would ever have the resources or drive to create one, the true qualifications do not come from exams on paper (That is societies views of success) True success comes from the person perusing his or her own goals and smashing them completely. Being happy, healthy and productive stems from following ones heart not following another ones orders.


----------



## tirediron

limr said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since there hasn't been any real discussion of photography in the last half-dozen or more pages, I've moved the topic to a more appropriate location.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The round file?
Click to expand...

 I said a MORE appropriate location, not the MOST appropriate location.  Please.  Try and keep up.


----------



## pgriz

Just so we get back on track, the "Photography" is actually incidental to this voyage of discovery.  I am quite confident that the OP will (as most of us did) finally figure out the script thing.  Josh, I'll make this suggestion.  Print out this thread and then put it away somewhere.  In about ten years, pull it back out again and read it.  I think you will see what we're trying to tell you (and obviously not successfully so far).  That's OK.  You may not yet have all the tools in the tool-chest to fully get what we're talking about.  But it does take time and some life experience for this to become relevant.  And it is brave of you to show us where you are in this evolving voyage of (self) discovery.


----------



## Josh100LuBu




----------



## pgriz

Yup.  All that.


----------



## Vtec44

This is just sad.


----------



## 480sparky

Josh100LuBu said:


> .....I have ran my own talkshow that was very successful and continues to be so, it ranked number 1 on The Art of Manliness forums for a week and it attracted a lot of guests. I had a Sasquatch investigator on and a paranormal investigator......



So does that automatically put you in the top tier of journalistic circles?




Josh100LuBu said:


> .......I doubt you have your own show and I doubt you would ever have the resources or drive to create one,.....



I am, however, a rather successful electrical contractor.  And I doubt YOU are one either, and I doubt YOU will ever have the resources to become one. So what does that say about _you_?  Can I label you as a 'vanilla Lamat follower' simply because you can't troubleshoot a 'vanilla' 3-way switch?  Have you missed out on the glory, passion, power, truth, freedom and self-expression because you've never installed a 2500-amp 277/480 three-phase generator in a hospital?


Well guess what.... I *have* followed my own path, _which does not include having my own 'show'_.  I guess that makes me vanilla, doesn't it?


----------



## tirediron

480sparky said:


> Josh100LuBu said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....I have ran my own talkshow that was very successful and continues to be so, it ranked number 1 on The Art of Manliness forums for a week and it attracted a lot of guests. I had a Sasquatch investigator on and a paranormal investigator......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So does that automatically put you in the top tier of journalistic circles?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Josh100LuBu said:
> 
> 
> 
> .......I doubt you have your own show and I doubt you would ever have the resources or drive to create one,.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am, however, a rather successful electrical contractor.  And I doubt YOU are one either, and I doubt YOU will ever have the resources to become one. So what does that say about _you_?  Can I label you as a 'vanilla Lamat follower' simply because you can't troubleshoot a 'vanilla' 3-way switch?  Have you missed out on the glory, passion, power, truth, freedom and self-expression because you've never installed a 2500-amp 277/480 three-phase generator in a hospital?
> 
> 
> Well guess what.... I *have* followed my own path, _which does not include having my own 'show'_.  I guess that makes me vanilla, doesn't it?
Click to expand...

 Maybe french vanilla....


----------



## tirediron

Josh100LuBu said:


>


 Every new follower gets a free glass of Kool-Aid!


----------



## pgriz

tirediron said:


> Every new follower gets a free glass of Kool-Aid!



Depends.  What flavour?


----------



## 480sparky

pgriz said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every new follower gets a free glass of Kool-Aid!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Depends.  What flavour?
Click to expand...


Cherry,  of course.  That's the vanilla of Kool-Aid.


----------



## tirediron

pgriz said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every new follower gets a free glass of Kool-Aid!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Depends.  What flavour?
Click to expand...

 Didn't Mr. Jones use grape?


----------



## pgriz

tirediron said:


> pgriz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every new follower gets a free glass of Kool-Aid!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Depends.  What flavour?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Didn't Mr. Jones use grape?
Click to expand...

Yes, he did.  That kinda taints it for me.  



480sparky said:


> Cherry, of course. That's the vanilla of Kool-Aid.


I like cherry.  I could be persuaded.  But I need some more incentive.


----------



## limr

Vtec44 said:


> This is just sad.



It really is. Part of me feels very very sorry for him. The rest of me wants to drop him in the middle of the Bronx and see how long it takes him to get out.


----------



## 480sparky

pgriz said:


> I like cherry.  I could be persuaded.  But I need some more incentive.



Quit your job.  Then you're free to drink all the Kool-Aid you want.  But only if doing so is more meaningful to you than your job.

And I'm sure your job allows you to live under a roof, wear silly clothes, eat food,...... meaningless existential stuff like that.


----------



## Vtec44

limr said:


> It really is. Part of me feels very very sorry for him. The rest of me wants to drop him in the middle of the Bronx and see how long it takes him to get out.



I feel sorry for him.  He's oblivious to life and has no social skills.  His parents probably sheltered and protected him for so long, that he started to believe his own reality.  I have 3 kids myself, so I know how tough it is.  I hope I don't make the same mistake his parents did.


----------



## mattpayne11

jsecordphoto said:


> if your bio is correct you're 19 or 20? That would explain how naive you are. Or maybe you're just trolling, who knows.
> 
> Either way, the worst part of this thread (which is truly bad) is that there is 10 pages of people responding to your tomfoolery, but amazing photography on here gets 2-3 pages of discussion max.



That was my thought too Jon... seems like we got our priorities mixed up.


----------



## tirediron

limr said:


> Vtec44 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is just sad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It really is. Part of me feels very very sorry for him. The rest of me wants to drop him in the middle of the Bronx and see how long it takes him to get out how much of him gets out.
Click to expand...

FTFY


----------



## vintagesnaps

Yeah, I don't see what real purpose this serves.

It seems like Josh did the same thing on the Art of Manliness site he mentioned that he seems to be doing here, posting controversial comments to get a lot of replies and points, etc. But what that really accomplishes or what satisfaction someone gets from that I'm not sure. (Other than to try to attract potential viewers to earn revenue on YouTube maybe?)

It doesn't seem to have anything to do with photography. It's been easy enough to look up some of the references such as to a character from a '90's video game, and I don't know why Josh you've made that into a name for your type photography, your videos or podcasts, etc., but there doesn't seem to be a reason for you to be posting about it on this site.

Josh if you really believe you are an innovative young photographer then you could try submitting your images to something like the Photo District News competition for up and coming photographers. (One just ended and I don't know when the next one is.)

There has been plenty of art and photography for a lot of years that has pushed boundaries or been unique and innovative even if it might have gotten criticized or not have been well accepted. There are contemporary art galleries and museums and exhibitions that display that type artwork. So if that's what you want to do, keep working at it (because I don't see it yet in what you've shown so far) and develop artistic skills and study art and photography etc. and see what you can accomplish. If you just want attention which seems to be the case, you seem to have gotten what you want.


----------



## 480sparky




----------



## Designer

If josh100LuBu really is the way to the future of art, then I want to see what he has next.  

I think I can overlook his attitude long enough for that.


----------



## bentcountershaft

Josh100LuBu said:


>




Is this a fair representation of your photographic work?  Early in the thread there was some discussion of it but I must have missed any links.


----------



## tecboy

Anyway, since this is 'off topic' thread and no longer a photographic discussion.  Tell us more about Captain Lamat and Lamatology.  Did he really born in 1973?  Was he a hero?  Is he still alive?


----------



## tirediron

tecboy said:


> Anyway, since this is 'off topic' thread and no longer a photographic discussion.  Tell us more about Captain Lamat and Lamatology.  Did he really born in 1973?  Was he a hero?  Is he still alive?


 And more importantly, how did he get to be a Captain.  It seems to me that a rank such as captain is rather vanilla and reeks of societal guidelines and group thinking.  Just sayin...


----------



## table1349

Josh100LuBu said:


> 480sparky said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Josh100LuBu said:
> 
> 
> 
> I never gave you any orders or requests to do anything, I never once instructed you or anyone else to do anything on this forum. I'm qualified to speak about suppression of truth and people blindly following traditions because i've been on numerous protests and I run my own talkshow that deals with these subjects. I make podcasts that encourage people to quit their mundane jobs and pursue other more important goals. I like to empower people to master their own lives, have you ever listened to the David Icke weekly podcasts on the power of mindfulness? Well it's basically breaking free from the chains of structure and seeing the bigger picture of life in general. You weren't put on this planet to work 9 to 5 all day everyday and you don't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll reiterate the question for you.
> 
> _What are your qualifications? _
> 
> 
> If that wasn't clear enough, I'll repeat it.
> _
> What are your qualifications? _
> 
> 
> Didn't catch it?  Here it is again:
> _
> What are your qualifications? _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can't judge a human being from a piece of paper with a grade on it, you just can't do that. Society does that and from that we become lost and out of touch. I have ran my own talkshow that was very successful and continues to be so, it ranked number 1 on The Art of Manliness forums for a week and it attracted a lot of guests. I had a Sasquatch investigator on and a paranormal investigator. I doubt you have your own show and I doubt you would ever have the resources or drive to create one, the true qualifications do not come from exams on paper (That is societies views of success) True success comes from the person perusing his or her own goals and smashing them completely. Being happy, healthy and productive stems from following ones heart not following another ones orders.
Click to expand...

Were you the show following this one???


----------



## sm4him

I thought I was done with this thread, but I decided to come back for one more post, just to make a request:

I was going to suggest not feeding the trolls, but I recognize that troll feeding can be a highly entertaining activity.  So I'm going to suggest something else:

If you're posting in certain trollified, or just plain silly threads (not naming an SPECIFIC threads, mind you, just sayin')--clearly, you have some time on your hands. So, how about for every post you make in said troll thread, you also go and "feed" a couple of threads that are actually about photography?  Pick two threads for each post, and give some C&C, or add your advice to a thread from a newbie asking a question.  It'd be great to see those threads attracting a lot of attention too!

Oh, and that's just a suggestion. Not a demand. And no, I don't have any specific qualifications that give me the right to expect that from anyone. 
But I do like Kool-Aid.


----------



## table1349

limr said:


> Vtec44 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is just sad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It really is. Part of me feels very very sorry for him. The rest of me wants to drop him in the middle of the Bronx and see how long it takes him to get out.
Click to expand...

Call me, I would be glad to fly over and pick him up and bring him to you.





Can you put me up for the night though.  I want to stick around and watch. 

To get back to photography, what lens do you suggest to capture photos of a troll fleeing for his life in the real world?  I was thinking of a 70-200 f2.8, but I might need more reach as he is running down the street screaming like a little girl.


----------



## tecboy

tirediron said:


> tecboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, since this is 'off topic' thread and no longer a photographic discussion.  Tell us more about Captain Lamat and Lamatology.  Did he really born in 1973?  Was he a hero?  Is he still alive?
> 
> 
> 
> And more importantly, how did he get to be a Captain.  It seems to me that a rank such as captain is rather vanilla and reeks of societal guidelines and group thinking.  Just sayin...
Click to expand...


He became a very successful pilot a very young age as a prophecy predicted.  Quite a strange tale.


----------



## table1349

sm4him said:


> I thought I was done with this thread, but I decided to come back for one more post, just to make a request:
> 
> I was going to suggest not feeding the trolls, but I recognize that troll feeding can be a highly entertaining activity.  So I'm going to suggest something else:
> 
> If you're posting in certain trollified, or just plain silly threads (not naming an SPECIFIC threads, mind you, just sayin')--clearly, you have some time on your hands. So, how about for every post you make in said troll thread, you also go and "feed" a couple of threads that are actually about photography?  Pick two threads for each post, and give some C&C, or add your advice to a thread from a newbie asking a question.  It'd be great to see those threads attracting a lot of attention too!
> 
> Oh, and that's just a suggestion. Not a demand. And no, I don't have any specific qualifications that give me the right to expect that from anyone.
> But I do like Kool-Aid.


I'm on my lunch hour so I do have a few minutes of time to kill. 


Here trollie, trollie, troll, troll..........


----------



## astroNikon

tecboy said:


> He became a very successful pilot a very young age as a prophecy predicted.  Quite a strange tale.


I read "famous" and not successful.  And created sweeping changes overnight while in his mid 20s.

Reminds me of a pilot who became "famous" and created sweeping (pilot cabin requirements) changes overnight, and was in his mid 20s ... just a few weeks ago.


----------



## table1349

First watch this......





Then this will make perfect sense.


----------



## table1349

OMG..... He has a theme song.





Catchy toon.  One can really boogie to this one.


----------



## pixmedic

gryphonslair99 said:


> OMG..... He has a theme song.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Catchy toon.  One can really boogie to this one.



is that.....is that a _*clip on*_ tie?!?

oh, btw josh...
your podcasts are very underexposed. you need some fill light.


----------



## astroNikon

tecboy said:


> He became a very successful pilot a very young age as a prophecy predicted.  Quite a strange tale.



What is really disturbing was this I read
"Lamat is a gay captain who loves little boys. Sacrifice little boys to Lamat and you will go to heaven."

the first 2 sentences from Captain Lamat - Lamatolgy In Captain Lamats Name

edited:  not "paragraphs" but first 2 sentences from the link


----------



## pixmedic

astroNikon said:


> tecboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> He became a very successful pilot a very young age as a prophecy predicted.  Quite a strange tale.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is really disturbing was this I read
> "Lamat is a gay captain who loves little boys. Sacrifice little boys to Lamat and you will go to heaven."
> 
> the first 2 paragraphs from Captain Lamat - Lamatolgy In Captain Lamats Name
Click to expand...


and there you have it folks. 
astro has solved the mystery.


----------



## table1349

Well you do have to be barmy to be a Lamat follower.


----------



## limr

gryphonslair99 said:


> First watch this......



I started to watch that when it was embedded somewhere in the last thread. You'll note that the first thing he does is to tell people to stop the video immediately if we don't want to hear him prattle on for 11 + minutes. I stopped the video. 11 minutes is way too much of my life to waste on that.



pixmedic said:


> is that.....is that a _*clip on*_ tie?!?






Edit: Per Sharon's request, I am now going to go find two photo threads to comment on.


----------



## pixmedic

gryphonslair99 said:


> Well you do have to be barmy to be a Lamat follower.



all sixes and sevens that one is


----------



## tirediron

limr said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> 
> First watch this......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I started to watch that when it was embedded somewhere in the last thread. You'll note that the first thing he does is to tell people to stop the video immediately if we don't want to hear him prattle on for 11 + minutes. I stopped the video. 11 minutes is way too much of my life to waste on that.
> 
> 
> 
> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> 
> is that.....is that a _*clip on*_ tie?!?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: Per Sharon's request, I am now going to go find two photo threads to comment on.
Click to expand...

 You know, I'm no longer convinced that a little censorship is such a bag thing!


----------



## table1349

pixmedic said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well you do have to be barmy to be a Lamat follower.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> all sixes and sevens that one is
Click to expand...

I just noticed your sig.  Shouldn't you change it to Artist Vanilla???  You know you have been duly chastised by the OP or have you not drunk of it's Kool-aid yet?


----------



## table1349

tirediron said:


> limr said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> 
> First watch this......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I started to watch that when it was embedded somewhere in the last thread. You'll note that the first thing he does is to tell people to stop the video immediately if we don't want to hear him prattle on for 11 + minutes. I stopped the video. 11 minutes is way too much of my life to waste on that.
> 
> 
> 
> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> 
> is that.....is that a _*clip on*_ tie?!?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: Per Sharon's request, I am now going to go find two photo threads to comment on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You know, I'm no longer convinced that a little censorship is such a bag thing!
Click to expand...

Can you fix this.  I wanted to give you a like and a funny both.  I could only do one, not both.  HOW VANILLA of the forum to not allow multiple selections.


----------



## pixmedic

gryphonslair99 said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well you do have to be barmy to be a Lamat follower.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> all sixes and sevens that one is
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I just noticed your sig.  Shouldn't you change it to Artist Vanilla???  You know you have been duly chastised by the OP or have you not drunk of it's Kool-aid yet?
Click to expand...


fixed it for ya!


----------



## table1349

pixmedic said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well you do have to be barmy to be a Lamat follower.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> all sixes and sevens that one is
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I just noticed your sig.  Shouldn't you change it to Artist Vanilla???  You know you have been duly chastised by the OP or have you not drunk of it's Kool-aid yet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> fixed it for ya!
Click to expand...

OMFG!!!!  I Just Snotted Pop Out of My Nose...

Your a mod, please give yourself 10 funnies for that one.


----------



## Overread

It's ok thread, its ok - you can rest now


----------

