# Film newbie questions



## danalec99 (Jan 11, 2005)

-What do you need for developing a 35mm B&amp;W film?  
-How do you develop a film roll? FYI, The apartment that I live in right now is not spacious enough for a full-fledged darkroom.

Can anyone explain these in layman's language. 

Thanks,
Dan


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## oriecat (Jan 11, 2005)

What do you need:

a tank and reel
developer
stop bath (not required, but good in many eyes)
fixer
hypoclear
photoflo or other wash agent
running water
a dark room or a changing bag to load the film
someplace to hang the film to dry

How to develop:
1.  Load the film onto the reel and place it in the tank  .  This must be done in total darkness!
2.  A quick prewash of the film, just some water (about 68 degs, try to keep all your chemicals at this temp) for 30 sec to a minute, swish and dump
3.  Develop - time will depend upon the chemical and film used.  Agitate according to the directions or personal preference
4.  Start dump of developer when time is 15 sec away from being up
5.  Add stop bath for appropriate time, then dump  (can usually be reused, so dump back into a graduate)
6.  Fixer - fix for appropriate time.  (can often be reused, check with hypo-chek)
7.  Fill and dump 3 times.
8. hypoclear - I can't remember how long I do this 1 or 2 minutes
9.  Wash for 10 minutes in running water
10.  photoflo - do not rinse off
11. hang to dry


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## ksmattfish (Jan 11, 2005)

Developing the film is easy to do without a darkroom, as once you have the film loaded into the light proof developing tank, you can be anywhere.  I used to develop film while watching TV.  Printing is what requires some space.


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## terri (Jan 11, 2005)

I've used a changing bag to load the film onto the reels just sitting on the living room couch, then gone into the kitchen, lined up my chemicals in order of use, and developed at the kitchen sink!   

Matt's right; developing your own film is not a big deal once you buy a few things (Orie's list is great).    Then you can at least inspect them at home, and decide which ones you'd like to see printed.   Or - invest in a good film scanner (if you don't already have one) and play with them in PS!       You can do whatever you want with them once developed.  

Have fun!


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## danalec99 (Jan 11, 2005)

Thanks Orie. I need to print that info. 




			
				oriecat said:
			
		

> 2.  A quick prewash of the film, just some water (about *68 degs*, try to keep all your chemicals at this temp) for 30 sec to a minute, swish and dump


Its not that I'm going to develop a roll right this instant, but how do we control the temperature of the water? Is it just "warm" water? Or do I need a thermometer? How is it done usually?


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## ksmattfish (Jan 11, 2005)

You need a thermometer for sure.  You can either mix the chems with the appropriate temp of water, or you can put the chems in metal or plastic containers, and stick them all in a tub of 68 degree F water.  In 10 min or so they'll all be the same temp.


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## danalec99 (Jan 11, 2005)

ksmattfish said:
			
		

> Printing is what requires some space.


I would eventually want to do that. I like the idea of creating authentic  Gelatin Silver prints in this world of portable kiosks .

And yes Terri, I plan to start with a film scanner.


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## danalec99 (Jan 11, 2005)

Does it have to be _precisely_ 68 degree F? If yes, how do we get that precision?


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## terri (Jan 11, 2005)

danalec99 said:
			
		

> Does it have to be _precisely_ 68 degree F? If yes, how do we get that precision?



Lots of different ways.   First off, buy yourself that darkroom thermometer with a long stemmed probe.    You can run some of the water you'll use straight out of the tap; then have water chilled and ready to pour while you mix your chemistry, add a little at a time while checking with the thermometer.   These thermometers are extremely sensitive and fast-acting; it's not as odious a task as it sounds.        My husband prefers to use smaller graduates that fit into larger ones or bowls with chilled water, this also works pretty fast in cooling.   

You'll develop (no pun intended) a method that you like best once you've done it a few times.


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## danalec99 (Jan 11, 2005)

Thanks terri, oriecat, Matt for the valuable input. I shall get back here soon as I get all the stuff!

Cheers!


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## aggiezach (Jan 11, 2005)

Have fun yo!!!


Zach


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## danalec99 (Jan 12, 2005)

Thanks, Yo!


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## MDowdey (Jan 12, 2005)

ok, to expound on that a little further..in order to do prints, all you need at that point is the enlarger right? :?:


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## ksmattfish (Jan 12, 2005)

MDowdey said:
			
		

> ok, to expound on that a little further..in order to do prints, all you need at that point is the enlarger right? :?:



enlarger
enlarger lens
neg carriers
enlarger timer
multicontrast filters
print easel
paper and chems (containers and measuring cups for chems)
thermometer
print trays
print tongs
processing timer (could be as simple as a kitchen timer, or clock on the wall with second hand)
print washer (can be as simple as a tray of water)
somewhere to dry the prints:  hanging from a line, or on a screen
safelight

I think that's it.  Probably forgot something.


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## MDowdey (Jan 12, 2005)

this sounds like a relatively easy process, other than getting the chems to the right temperature. here is SC, you would be hard pressed to get anything to 68deg in the summer time 


now as far as 120 goes, same process? or a bigger tank and reel?

md


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## ksmattfish (Jan 12, 2005)

MDowdey said:
			
		

> this sounds like a relatively easy process, other than getting the chems to the right temperature. here is SC, you would be hard pressed to get anything to 68deg in the summer time
> 
> 
> now as far as 120 goes, same process? or a bigger tank and reel?
> ...



I have the same problem in Kansas.  My solution is to have a jug of ice water handy to temper the water/chems.

120 just needs a reel that can handle it.  The tanks are the same size.


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## oriecat (Jan 12, 2005)

MDowdey said:
			
		

> now as far as 120 goes, same process? or a bigger tank and reel?



yep and yep! 


I think matt's said before he has trouble with the temp in KS in summer and uses lots of ice and then just waits until Fall to develop


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## ferny (Jan 12, 2005)

MDowdey said:
			
		

> this sounds like a relatively easy process, other than getting the chems to the right temperature. here is SC, you would be hard pressed to get anything to 68deg in the summer time
> 
> 
> now as far as 120 goes, same process? or a bigger tank and reel?
> ...


I just looked into dev tanks (see post if interested). Some tanks take 135 and 120, some don't. Most do both I think. Some reels are for 135 only, some for 120. You can get adjustable (or universal) reels to. You can lengthen and shorten the gap in them to take either.


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## MDowdey (Jan 12, 2005)

see, my problem is this. i have the worlds tiniest apartment. and i would love to develope my own negs and then do prints of them....BUT...thats kinda hard to do when you dont have ANY room for a darkroom. it makes me frustrated because i have to spend damn near 30 bucks everytime i want to get pan F developed at the local 'im too good for you" pro lab.

md


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## MDowdey (Jan 12, 2005)

what do the guru's think about a startup like this?




md


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## ferny (Jan 12, 2005)

The reason for me developing my own b&amp;w is so that I can check the negatives and decide which (if any) to print. I don't have a darkroom. Just a dev tank in transit.
Where I normally send my film (the local chemist) don't do b&amp;w developing and the only place I know of to do 120 near me, although not that far away, is an inconvenience. I could always send if off to Jessops though. But at cost.

I'm all for doing stuff myself and all to.


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## MDowdey (Jan 12, 2005)

ferny said:
			
		

> The reason for me developing my own b&amp;w is so that I can check the negatives and decide which (if any) to print. I don't have a darkroom. Just a dev tank in transit.
> Where I normally send my film (the local chemist) don't do b&amp;w developing and the only place I know of to do 120 near me, although not that far away, is an inconvenience. I could always send if off to Jessops though. But at cost.
> 
> I'm all for doing stuff myself and all to.




so what your saying is you prefer to develope(out of there being no one else) on your own and then send it to the local lab to get prints? i would do that, if it werent for the local guys here being total bitches.


md


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## ferny (Jan 12, 2005)

That's the plan. The only problem is that I bought my first tank off of eBay last night and it'll take a couple of weeks to get here. :mrgreen:
It'll let me play with infrared film to (even though the tank is plastic I'll find a way). As well as doing arty stuff like adding more grain etc.


It'll all go wrong though. I'll end up addicted to chemicals and die in a horrible fire as I set fire to the bottles. I'll probably ruin every film I have a go at to.


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## MDowdey (Jan 12, 2005)

ferny said:
			
		

> That's the plan. The only problem is that I bought my first tank off of eBay last night and it'll take a couple of weeks to get here. :mrgreen:
> It'll let me play with infrared film to (even though the tank is plastic I'll find a way). As well as doing arty stuff like adding more grain etc.
> 
> 
> It'll all go wrong though. I'll end up addicted to chemicals and die in a horrible fire as I set fire to the bottles. I'll probably ruin every film I have a go at to.



now that sounds like a fun time at the ferny residence!!!


md


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## oriecat (Jan 12, 2005)

MDowdey said:
			
		

> what do the guru's think about a startup like this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You won't be able to do 120 with that one, Matty.  You need 120, right?


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## MDowdey (Jan 12, 2005)

oriecat said:
			
		

> MDowdey said:
> 
> 
> 
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god i love it when you call me that  . i would love one that will do 120, but my 35mm rangefinders are more important to me right now.

i just dont want to spend too much money if im not really going to get into it.

what did you think about that particular model, if i was to only do 35mm..

md


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## ferny (Jan 12, 2005)

The thing is, do you want a tester system that only does 35mm. Or do you want one that will allow you to do 120 so you won't have to spend more later on and let you experiment a little?

If the cost increase (if there is one) is acceptable, I'd go with the one that allows 120 as well.

You can always buy a second hand one as well. It'll be cheaper and if you decide you don't like it you won't lose anything when you sell it on. As far as I'm aware, there aren't any real issues with a second hand enlarger. Other than the obvious "is it all there and working" ones.


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## MDowdey (Jan 12, 2005)

yeah i agree with that...although it would be neat to get the kit that has all the goods with it. but they might not be good chemicals...i really want to do some "doxx" inspired stuff and do the diafine treatment. i love my digital, but sometimes it just doesnt feel like photography.

md


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## danalec99 (Jan 12, 2005)

Just wanted to know if I am doing alright:

1.  Tank
2. Changing bag
3. Thermometer

-What else do I need from here?
-Do you go after any particular brands? (I would prefer stainless steel)


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## ferny (Jan 12, 2005)

What's diafine treatment?


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## MDowdey (Jan 12, 2005)

ferny said:
			
		

> What's diafine treatment?



doxx takes 400 speed tri-x and pushes it to 1600 then developes using diafine. look it up on B and H. his pics have a certain quality to them, a little grainy, but alot of contrast and highs and lows in the shadows.


md


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## ferny (Jan 12, 2005)

I know what you mean about his pics. :shock:


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## MDowdey (Jan 12, 2005)

ferny said:
			
		

> I know what you mean about his pics. :shock:




friggin amazing.


md


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## oriecat (Jan 12, 2005)

MDowdey said:
			
		

> god i love it when you call me that  . i would love one that will do 120, but my 35mm rangefinders are more important to me right now.
> 
> i just dont want to spend too much money if im not really going to get into it.
> 
> ...





Umm I don't know anything specific about the Cadet II, but Beseler is a good brand of course.  But seriously check ebay!  You can get some great deals.  I got mine (Omega B600, does both) for $50 and it even came with some other stuff.

It doesn't like like that set includes chems, just empty bottles, which you will need.


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## oriecat (Jan 12, 2005)

danalec99 said:
			
		

> Just wanted to know if I am doing alright:
> 
> 1.  Tank
> 2. Changing bag
> ...



Looking good, Dan!  You'll also want some graduates for measuring.


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## ksmattfish (Jan 12, 2005)

MDowdey said:
			
		

> what do the guru's think about a startup like this?
> 
> md



All new enlarging equipment is going to cost a lot more than used stuff these days.   For $250 you should be able to get a better used enlarger on Ebay with many of the fixin's included.  Look for one that does 120 too.


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## danalec99 (Jan 12, 2005)

Thanks Orie!


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## ksmattfish (Jan 12, 2005)

MDowdey said:
			
		

> ferny said:
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Technically it's not a push to shoot Tri-X 35mm at 1600 when developing in Diafine.  That's the manufacturer's reccomended speed, although I think it's really closer to ISO 1250.  Most traditional BW films double in speed when developed in Diafine.  Tabular grain emulsions (Tmax and Delta) don't get quite as much extra speed.  You can't really alter development with Diafine.  Neither time nor temp is supposed to have much effect.  On the other hand, because it's a 2 bath developer, it handles contrast very well.  If you are looking for an "idiot proof" developer it's hard to go wrong with Diafine.  Just search for articles about it on the web; there is alot of info out there, and it's all about the same.  I  use it for low light photography, and I really like it.


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## Jeff Canes (Jan 13, 2005)

oriecat said:
			
		

> danalec99 said:
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I dont think stainless tanks will hold the adjustable reels. So you may a need 120 and 35mm reel.


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## danalec99 (Jan 14, 2005)

Jeff Canes said:
			
		

> oriecat said:
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I'm sorry, I missed this post.  

Do I need both 120 and the 35mm reel if I'm sticking with the just the 35mm? I do not have a MF camera yet.


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## oriecat (Jan 14, 2005)

Of course not!  You'll just need another reel if you decide to move to MF.


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## danalec99 (Jan 15, 2005)

Thanks orie.... excuse the dumb question.


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## oriecat (Jan 15, 2005)

No problem!  Hey, are you getting a lensbaby??  Let us know how you like it!


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## danalec99 (Jan 15, 2005)

Yep, can't wait to get it. Will defenitely post pictures.


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