# Really?



## FoggyLens (Mar 10, 2011)

Ok so... I did some 9mo portraits for my husbands friend. They contacted me and requested I do them. These are not the "friends" that are looking for free portraits they where ready to pay my reg sitting fee price but I of course gave them a small friend discount.. We did a full hour shoot with several props and changes including some family poses. After we where done the wife asks me not to post any photos of them or the baby on the internet.. Them being my husbands friends I of course told her I would respect her wish's. Does this mean I cant post them here? LOL!!! :lmao: I was pleased how this shoot went and wanted some C&C's but feel I might be going against what I said.. lol. Thoughts?


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## Bitter Jeweler (Mar 10, 2011)

This is the Internet you were asked to not post the pictures on, no?


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## FoggyLens (Mar 10, 2011)

yes.... booooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!  LOL!!!


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## Bynx (Mar 11, 2011)

You sound like a sensible english speaking person. What part of dont post to the internet do you not understand? I guess asking your question makes me take back my first statement.


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## FoggyLens (Mar 11, 2011)

WOW! Really I was just venting.. No need to get ugly..


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## o hey tyler (Mar 11, 2011)

Well, did you have a contract that said you wouldn't post images on the internet?


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## FoggyLens (Mar 11, 2011)

No! :lmao: There was no contract stating such thing!  And really her words where not to post on my webpage or my FB page but I took it as the internet.. lol.


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## Bynx (Mar 11, 2011)

Who's getting ugly? If you wanted people to say your giving your word to your customer not to put on the internet and then turning around and doing just that was all right, then I for one cant agree with that action. And to me a verbal agreement is as binding as a contract written in blood. I suppose the same cant be said by o hey tyler who is looking for the blood contract and that giving your word means nothing.
Not sure what you mean by you were just venting. Does that mean we were supposed to just say nothing?

Aaaahhh. Now you change your story. After reading your last post I see the customer stated not to post on YOUR site and FB. That doesnt include the whole internet as you first stated. I think she just didnt want her pics made public so posting anywhere on the internet does just that.


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## RauschPhotography (Mar 11, 2011)

Clean and simple, no. I'd also really hope that you would respect every customer's wishes, regardless of their relation to you.


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## FoggyLens (Mar 11, 2011)

Again I was venting. I have not nor will I post her child or there family on the internet.


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## mwcfarms (Mar 11, 2011)

Why don't you ask her if you can share the pictures with a few other photographers to ask critique on technical opinion and such but you will not put any on your site or FB and see what she says. She just might surprise you. Worst case scenario is she says no.


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## FoggyLens (Mar 11, 2011)

That is a great idea Dee! I think I will do that.. They are coming by this weekend to order prints. I will ask her then.


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## KmH (Mar 11, 2011)

Not speaking up until AFTER the shoot wasn't cool on your 'friends' part. I would have been a pretty unhappy camper at that point.

Friend or no friend, if I can't use the images for my portfolio or for self-promotion, the client pays more, because my pricing is based on the assumption I *will* be able to use the images in that way, if I decide I want to. That is covered/discussed when they initial the model release section of my retail photography contract just before they sign it.

No contract?
Or you just didn't amend the contract you normally used that they signed?
If you do use a contract, doesn't it have a model release embedded in it, that specifically allows you to use the images for self-promotion and self-publishing?
If you don't use a contract, it's financially/legally risky taking money from people for a service without one.

Why would they be reluctant to have their photos on your Facebook page or web site in the first place? Are they wanted by the authorities or something? I assume they go out in public, right? So other people see them all the time?


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## FoggyLens (Mar 11, 2011)

I was pretty upset Keith and thought it wasn't very cool at all myself and wished l hadnt given them a discount. I did not amend the contract I normally use.. Mistake..  I did send it to them but did not request it be signed because they are "friends" Lesson learned. My contract does clearly state they images are mine to use as I see fit.. I copied and pasted the section below.. I have asked my husband why they do not have her on the internet. He thinks its odd as well.. They both have FB pages and by looking at them you would not know they have a baby..?? She has all the other children in there family on her page and they have a family website that is password protected that they have pics of the baby on.. LOL.. She is a med student and they are not married so the only thing I can come up with is that maybe she has some grants or something that do not allow her to have a child?? Or maybe they are wanted by the authorities... lamo! 



5. NOTICE OF COPYRIGHT and Reproduction: All images and copyrights are the property of Meeks Photography. Meeks Photography retains the right to sell,
copy, display, and/or publish any/all images created under this agreement, to the general public, for any reason, including but not limited to: advertising, marketing, sales, print competitions, educational seminars, and monetary gain. The mediums for display could include newspapers, magazines, books, television, and the internet, but are not limited to only those mediums. The Photographer retains these rights even if image files are turned over to the Client.


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## manaheim (Mar 11, 2011)

Always have a contract.

Always.  Even when you work for friends and family.

Oh and NEVER work for friends or family.


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## Bynx (Mar 11, 2011)

Is that a normal contract? Why would anyone hire you to take pictures of their family so you could then sell those pictures to whoever you wanted to? I could understand if it was a sporting event or some public affair, but family is private and it should be up to the family to decide what you do with those pics. Ya I know copyright and ownership by the photographer. But if you didnt agree to that I certainly wouldnt hire you and I would think anyone who does is nuts.


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## manaheim (Mar 11, 2011)

Bynx said:


> Is that a normal contract? Why would anyone hire you to take pictures of their family so you could then sell those pictures to whoever you wanted to? I could understand if it was a sporting event or some public affair, but family is private and it should be up to the family to decide what you do with those pics. Ya I know copyright and ownership by the photographer. But if you didnt agree to that I certainly wouldnt hire you and I would think anyone who does is nuts.



I use my standard contract for all customers, including family or friends.  It details my rights of ownership and usage as well as my customer's.  I can always strike or amend the contract to meet the needs if I'm ok with those changes, but the key is that expectations are established and agreed to prior to my ever lifting a camera.


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## tirediron (Mar 11, 2011)

FoggyLens said:


> 5. NOTICE OF COPYRIGHT and Reproduction: All images and copyrights are the property of Meeks Photography. Meeks Photography retains *the right to sell,
> *copy, display, and/or publish any/all images created under this agreement, to the general public, for any reason, including *but not limited to: advertising, marketing, sales*, print competitions, educational seminars, and *monetary gain*. The mediums for display could include newspapers, magazines, books, television, and the internet, but are not limited to only those mediums. The Photographer retains these rights even if image files are turned over to the Client.


I don't mean to seem rude, but if I was hiring you for family photographs and you presented me with that contract, I would tell you to go jump!  This is my equivalent:

_"Johns Photography shall retain copyright over all images taken at this event, and reserves the right to use them for any non-commercial purpose, including, but not limited to:  Self-promotion, display, artistic and/or professional accreditation or competition. "
_
I really don't believe it's ethical to take "personal" photographs (That is, images of a family, person, etc which are clearly not intended for commercial use) and then use them in that manner.


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## FoggyLens (Mar 11, 2011)

Like Manaheim I use a standard contract for everything! Are you a hobbyist Bynx? What kind of contract do you use? Portraits are not the only thing I shoot! And for the record I am a mother as well and would never sell someone's family portraits to anyone other then that family.. Come on I think we have a little more common sinse then this.. What is your deal Bynx? Your kind of turning this into something its not.. It would have been nice for her to communicate this to me before the shoot. I'm not upset about not being able to post to my site. I just wanted the awesome photographers that are on this forum to tell me what I could have done to make them better!


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## tirediron (Mar 11, 2011)

I think the lesson here Trish (which you already know) is have paper signed before-hand no matter who the client(s) are.  As a matter of interest, I'm not sure how you would use a standard contract for every situation; the useage terms I would put in for a real-estate shoot would be very different from those for a product shoot and different again for a family shoot.  I don't doubt for a second that you wouldn't sell family images, but the fact remains that under the terms of your contract, you _could_.


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## Bynx (Mar 11, 2011)

Yes Im a hobbyist Trish. I refuse to take money for my pics because then its no longer a hobby and the fun is gone. But I think I have common sense and wouldnt agree to any contract that gave you the rights to do whatever you wanted with my families pictures. Now I am only talking family and not sports events, family pets or whatever else you photograph. Family is personal and it should remain that way. It should be up to the family how those pics are distributed. Its a bummer when you take a really good shot of anything or in this case anyone and cant wait to show it to the world. But it would certainly piss me off if someone I knew phoned me up to say they saw pics of my family on some web site posted by the photographer. Since this thread was only about family, all my remarks are concerned from that aspect only. The thing I question is ..... if the woman asked you not to post any pics and you agreed to that, then why would you ask if it was alright if a photo forum was a special exempt exception? If the first 10 people to reply here said sure it was fine to post those pics here since its a photo forum, would you have done that? Then what? Suppose a member or guest here sees those pics and tells the woman. What would you say to her when she confronts you? Would you really tell her your word means nothing? I think this whole thing is a matter of honor and integrity. And thats something you shouldnt give up as the result of a poll?


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## manaheim (Mar 11, 2011)

tirediron said:


> FoggyLens said:
> 
> 
> > 5. NOTICE OF COPYRIGHT and Reproduction: All images and copyrights are the property of Meeks Photography. Meeks Photography retains *the right to sell,
> ...



Mine doesn't even say that much.  It just says I maintain copyright rights and leaves it at that.  I figure that's probably plenty... though I'm not a lawyer.


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## FoggyLens (Mar 11, 2011)

Thank you Tirediron. I see your point and I think now I will re-do a contract that is for portraits only. This has never even been an issue but I see how it _could_ be..


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## FoggyLens (Mar 11, 2011)

Thanks Manahen. I agree with what your saying..


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## imagemaker46 (Mar 11, 2011)

I do some model shoots from time to time and would really like to share the images on my website, I ask the girls after the shoot if they would have any objections to my putting a couple of images on my site, some have no problem, so do. I send them a copy of the ones I would oike to use and let them decide if they are ok with it.  If they say no, it ends at that point. It is professional respect for the client.


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## KmH (Mar 12, 2011)

FoggyLens said:


> I was pretty upset Keith and thought it wasn't very cool at all myself and wished l hadnt given them a discount. I did not amend the contract I normally use.. Mistake.. I did send it to them but did not request it be signed because they are "friends" Lesson learned. My contract does clearly state they images are mine to use as I see fit.. I copied and pasted the section below.. I have asked my husband why they do not have her on the internet. He thinks its odd as well.. They both have FB pages and by looking at them you would not know they have a baby..?? She has all the other children in there family on her page and they have a family website that is password protected that they have pics of the baby on.. LOL.. She is a med student and they are not married so the only thing I can come up with is that maybe she has some grants or something that do not allow her to have a child?? Or maybe they are wanted by the authorities... lamo!





The default font (Verdana), and size (2) TPF have the forum set to are just about optimum for the vast majority of people that visit TPF.


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## photogir2002 (Mar 14, 2011)

FoggyLens said:


> WOW! Really I was just venting.. No need to get ugly..


 
They do get ugly on here. A lot. Very uptight "professionals" or that's what they call themselves. They are a bitter bunch I've noticed.:meh::meh:


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## photogir2002 (Mar 14, 2011)

FoggyLens said:


> Again I was venting. I have not nor will I post her child or there family on the internet.


Don't vent on here...ever...their claws come out. Growl! LOL!


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## FoggyLens (Mar 14, 2011)

photogir2002 said:


> FoggyLens said:
> 
> 
> > Again I was venting. I have not nor will I post her child or there family on the internet.
> ...



:lmao: LMAO!!!!!!!!!!


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