# Any landscape photographers considering the Hasselblad X1D or Fuji GFX 50s?



## phild2k

I'm just wondering what cameras those of you considering the switch are coming from, which one of these two fine cameras you like best and the reasons behind the choice?

I currently shoot with a Nikon D810 and I'm looking to switch to a much lighter mirrorless setup without any loss of picture quality.


----------



## jcdeboever

Shoot man, the Fujifilm ain't even out yet.


----------



## Derrel

Kirk Tuck just utterly, totally savaged the Hassy...he said it's God-awful not too long ago on his blog The Visual Science Lab. Tuck's a working commercial shooter who has gone through a LOT of camera system in the digitial age, always looking for that "leg up" on the competition. His comments about the new Hassy after shooting it were exceptionally dismissive. Apparently, the camera is a mess, and the lenses are middling. Remember: this is a new "Hassy" that came out with the company's just-let-last-week CEO, the luxury brands specialist *hired gun* they brought in to see if they as a company could add a bit of life into a dying brand name.


----------



## phild2k

Hi Derrel,


Are you referring to Kirk’s writings in this article?

The Visual Science Lab / Kirk Tuck: A few thoughts on the new Hasselblad medium format camera. Just a few...

It’s interesting that his biggest gripe is, ironically, what most photographers (particularly studio photographers) that have issued reviews like about the X1D – Leaf Shutter. The leaf shutter is what allows the X1D to flash-sync up to 1/2000 of a second, compared to only 1/250 of a second on the GFX 50s.

Regardless, as a landscape photographer, flash sync is pretty irrelevant for me. Where I agree with him, however, is getting locked into Hasselblad’s very expensive and extremely limited lens ecosystem. This is a big problem for me. I need a nice wide angle lens of at least 18-20mm (35mm equivalent), the wide they are launching with is only 24mm (35mm equivalent). I might have to wait several years for them to release a wider one.


----------



## Derrel

phild2k said:


> Hi Derrel,
> 
> 
> Are you referring to Kirk’s writings in this article?
> 
> The Visual Science Lab / Kirk Tuck: A few thoughts on the new Hasselblad medium format camera. Just a few...
> 
> It’s interesting that his biggest gripe is, ironically, what most photographers (particularly studio photographers) that have issued reviews like about the X1D – Leaf Shutter. The leaf shutter is what allows the X1D to flash-sync up to 1/2000 of a second, compared to only 1/250 of a second on the GFX 50s.
> 
> Regardless, as a landscape photographer, flash sync is pretty irrelevant for me. Where I agree with him, however, is getting locked into Hasselblad’s very expensive and extremely limited lens ecosystem. This is a big problem for me. I need a nice wide angle lens of at least 18-20mm (35mm equivalent), the wide they are launching with is only 24mm (35mm equivalent). I might have to wait several years for them to release a wider one.



Nope, that's not the article: the one I read is shorter, and is MUCH newer, from Novemeber or December of 2017 IMMSMC. He was UN-impressed by the speed of writes, un-impressed by color, the camera took forever to turn on (I mean a 2001-era startup time) and overall *extremely dismissive* of the camera. He thought beforehand that it would be a good performer, but was left, I have to say it again, extremely dismissive of everything about the camera, its files, and the lenses. This was Hassy's new mirrorless offering. Lens focal lengths were also brought up for derision. I have no idea about the camera, but Tuck usually can find something to like about any camera; this one was a true exception. As I understand it, the wide-amgle end is terrible, and there's no real tele either....this seems to have been designed as a cachet item, rather than a serious photographic tool. Keep in mind too, the CEO that this was norn under was dismissed like, less than a week ago.


----------



## phild2k

Thanks Derrel.

This is the first negative review I've seen of the Hasselblad X1D that came from a pretty solid source, so it is definitely of interest to me. I'm following the X1D test user group on Facebook, they've got several hundred users across Europe, Asia and North America testing it and the feedback I've been reading has been unanimously good.

I think some of the issues he's taking with the camera are highly likely to be addressed with Firmware updates over time, but I guess that remains to be seen. His criticism of the colour I do find somewhat baffling as this is again an area where the feedback that I've seen has been quite strong with the camera boasting true 16-bit dynamic range.

Do you know if he has tested the GFX 50s? I'd be interested to see his opinions on Fuji's offering.


----------



## Derrel

I have not been reading his blog for the last month or so. Not sure if he's been around the new Fuji, but I was surprised by his negativity toward the mirror less Hassy.


----------



## cgw

What interests me most about the GFX 50 is the chance Fuji might roll-out a down-spec model(e.g., XT-2>XT-20)to broaden demand for the new lens mount.


----------



## Derrel

cgw said:
			
		

> What interests me most about the GFX 50 is the chance Fuji might roll-out a down-spec model(e.g., XT-2>XT-20)to broaden demand for the new lens mount.



OMG....that could be sweet. I had not really considered that, but man...who would not want access to something less costly! Rolleiflex>Rolleicord...Nikon>Nikkormat....Canon F1>Canon FTb, etc.. Sure.

Gawd....now I'm dreaming of a folding digital Fuji.

A new lens mount: pretty ambitious. More than "one" camera would likely help.


----------



## gk fotografie

phild2k said:


> I'm just wondering what cameras those of you considering the switch are coming from, which one of these two fine cameras you like best and the reasons behind the choice?
> 
> I currently shoot with a Nikon D810 and I'm looking to switch to a much lighter mirrorless setup without any loss of picture quality.



The Hasselblad X1D really looks like a poor copy of the unique Hasselblad SWC, don't you think.
I've used Hasselblad cameras for more than 20 years as a pro and don't think it's very likely this X1D will become the centerpiece of a brandnew MF mirrorless camerasystem, developed by Hasselblad.
It's hard to believe the Hasselblad company is sold to a Chinese drone manufacturer, it would have been better for them to get into the very solid Leica/Sinar group and create interesting joint ventures with companies like Carl Zeiss and Sony.
I guess neither mirrorless cameras will ensure a much ligher setup (camera, several lenses etc.) for landscape photography.
The new Fuji GFX perhaps looks interesting, but hardly for professionals if Fuji fails to introduce a wider range of lenses and accessories in a very short period of time. Professionals need a complete MF camerasystem, not just a mirrorless camera with 3 lenses.
In a way I think this new Fuji GFX will end up like the Mamiya ZD, not really a big success.
Can't see professional photographers selling their equipment to jump into this Hasselblad X1D or Fuji GFX adventure, too big a risk for that matter. 

Perhaps most photographers in the US are somewhat conservative, where professionals in Europe and Asia have broaden their horizon in the past years and do not really need Hasselblad or Fuji to go mirrorless, because they already work mirrorless!
In Europe and Asia many professionals think "digital backs - Leaf, PhaseOne, Hasselblad - and multi usage" within different digital/analog MF and LF camerasystems, like Alpa, Arca Swiss, Cambo, Silvestri, Linhof, Sinar, Hasselblad V&H series and Mamiya 645AFD etc.
It's a new and different way of thinking/working, but offers the widest possibilities.
Sure, there will be interested people willing to spend big bucks on a Hasselblad X1D or Fuji GFX, but will this be enough to build a solid professional mirrorless MF camerasystem?


----------



## Derrel

Hasselblad has been owned by a tractor manufacturer; by a high-end leather goods maker; and now by a Chinese drone company? Sounds about right. The company has been bought and sold more times than I mentioned above. The "name", the "brand" of Hasselblad, is valuable to some investors it seems.

Basic issue is that the higher-end camera market is not growing. And digital medium format sales numbers have always been comparatviely low, so there seems to be almost no real consensus, among anybody, what the right direction is in digital medium format systems, except that there "*might be*" a niche at the lower-priced end of the category. Within the past few yearsm entry has gone from $30,000 US to under $10,000 US, which makes me think that the manufacturers are trying to see if there might be more total money from sales to wealthy amateurs instead of from the professional market.

I suppose time will tell how well the Hasselblad X1D and Fuji GFX cameras take off, or fail to fly. I dunno...with the increase in sensor performance at the 36-42-50 MP levels in 24x36 sensors, I think the old-school advantages of medium format over 35mm size format have largely lost their appeal to the majority of the marketplace; meaning, I think that even 24MP FX images have surpassed 100-speed 6x6 film images in quality, and the 36- and 42- and 50-MP images offer equal or higher resolution, great color, and huge systems of lenses and accessories, plus nimble handling, fast autofocusing, and so on.


----------



## Gary A.

The GFX is available for preorder.  My camera store called me to see if I wanted to be on his list.  It is very tempting ... but I'm not a big landscape guy. I'm still toying with the idea.


----------



## cgw

One(though so far unmeasureble)index of the GFX's popularity are reports of the Chinese hackmeisters plans for multi-fit lens adapters for the new Fuji mount. Seems the plus-size full-frame sensor can accommodate all sorts of lenses(First Images of Fujifilm GFX Adapters for Leica M, Zeiss Otus, Mamiya, Schneider-Kreuznach + Focal Plane Shutter Advantage ;) - Fuji Rumors). Fujifilm.ca has so far been very savvy in scheduling informal, low-pressure events where all their new products are available for first-hand fondling.


----------



## phild2k

Bump!


----------



## Derrel

It's now the beginning of March, 2017, and Fuji GFX outfits are now being delivered to the early adopters! I have not seen much landsacape interest in the GFX on the Facebook group--it seems to be mostly commercial and fashion and portrait shooters who seem to be interested in this new camera, as well as the usual assortment of wealthy amateurs.


----------



## phild2k

I'm in both the GFX and X1D groups and landscape photographers are hard to find in either group. 
From my point of view it is difficult to make a decision here as I'd really love to hear some feedback from professional landscape photographers who would surely be interested in both of these cameras.


----------



## jeffW

having jumped from canon to sony, not having the lens lineup has been a pain.  I also wonder if the hassy acquisition is more of an inside way to get licensing for sony's larger sensor should they need it for a future 360 format camera style - just wondering. 

I do know this I am not buying a first generation of any electronic merchandise


----------



## phild2k

My Hasselblad X1D arrived today, most of my Nikon stuff already sold.

I'm all in!


----------



## jeffW

phild2k said:


> My Hasselblad X1D arrived today, most of my Nikon stuff already sold.
> 
> I'm all in!



congrats  have fun with it

that's why I went to sony someone bought my canon cameras from me


----------



## Solarflare

cgw said:


> What interests me most about the GFX 50 is the chance Fuji might roll-out a down-spec model(e.g., XT-2>XT-20)to broaden demand for the new lens mount.


 Sorry, but thats definitely not gonna happen. The majority of the cost of the GFX is the sensor.





Derrel said:


> [...] it seems to be mostly commercial and fashion and portrait shooters who seem to be interested in this new camera, as well as the usual assortment of wealthy amateurs.


 I think these two cameras have a good chance to open new markets for which such cameras have been too expensive before.


----------



## cgw

Solarflare said:


> cgw said:
> 
> 
> 
> What interests me most about the GFX 50 is the chance Fuji might roll-out a down-spec model(e.g., XT-2>XT-20)to broaden demand for the new lens mount.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, but thats definitely not gonna happen. The majority of the cost of the GFX is the sensor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> 
> [...] it seems to be mostly commercial and fashion and portrait shooters who seem to be interested in this new camera, as well as the usual assortment of wealthy amateurs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think these two cameras have a good chance to open new markets for which such cameras have been too expensive before.
Click to expand...


They're 8500 bucks on my side of the border. Then there are the lens prices...Its sensor isn't spectacularly larger than full frames, particularly in light of the price. One suspects Fuji will start offering discount lens+body packages soon enough if they want to grow their customer base. High-margin/low-volume has its limits, revenue-wise.


----------



## ashleykaryl

I'm hopeless at landscapes, so there isn't a camera in the world I would buy for that purpose. More broadly I'm interested in watching the progress of both cameras, but right now is a good time to be patient. In the past I used Hasselblads for the vast majority of my work, but it's not the same company as before.


----------



## Solarflare

cgw said:


> They're 8500 bucks on my side of the border. Then there are the lens prices...Its sensor isn't spectacularly larger than full frames, particularly in light of the price. One suspects Fuji will start offering discount lens+body packages soon enough if they want to grow their customer base. High-margin/low-volume has its limits, revenue-wise.


 The only explanation I have for your posting is that you dont seem to be aware how digital sensor price literally _explodes _when you get to bigger ones.

When you create a sensor, having twice the area means your chance of failure goes up enormously. I read estimates of that being about 8 times.

A full frame sensor is many times more expensive than an APS-C sensor. There is still no new camera you can buy from the shop that has a full frame sensor and has broken the $1000 barrier. While new, current cameras with APS-C can be had for below $500.

For example take a look at the D7200 and the D750. They are basically the same camera - same controls, same autofocus sensor, same features etc. And yet the D750 is much more expensive. Now eBay price searches have gone much more confusing recently but it seems like the legal price for a new D7200 would be at  €900 while the price for a new D750 is still at $1800. That would mean the sensor of the D750 is worth $900 more than the sensor of the D7200.

The step from full frame to cropped 645 is almost a doubling of area, again. So again thats about 8 times more cost. So no, your assumptions are wrong: Fujifilm has no way of making the GFX much cheaper. They are already offering you a bargain for the camera body with the GFX, probably hoping to make the actual buck with those really expensive lenses.


----------



## cgw

Solarflare said:


> cgw said:
> 
> 
> 
> They're 8500 bucks on my side of the border. Then there are the lens prices...Its sensor isn't spectacularly larger than full frames, particularly in light of the price. One suspects Fuji will start offering discount lens+body packages soon enough if they want to grow their customer base. High-margin/low-volume has its limits, revenue-wise.
> 
> 
> 
> The only explanation I have for your posting is that you dont seem to be aware how digital sensor price literally _explodes _when you get to bigger ones.
> 
> When you create a sensor, having twice the area means your chance of failure goes up enormously. I read estimates of that being about 8 times.
> 
> A full frame sensor is many times more expensive than an APS-C sensor. There is still no new camera you can buy from the shop that has a full frame sensor and has broken the $1000 barrier. While new, current cameras with APS-C can be had for below $500.
> 
> For example take a look at the D7200 and the D750. They are basically the same camera - same controls, same autofocus sensor, same features etc. And yet the D750 is much more expensive. Now eBay price searches have gone much more confusing recently but it seems like the legal price for a new D7200 would be at  €900 while the price for a new D750 is still at $1800. That would mean the sensor of the D750 is worth $900 more than the sensor of the D7200.
> 
> The step from full frame to cropped 645 is almost a doubling of area, again. So again thats about 8 times more cost. So no, your assumptions are wrong: Fujifilm has no way of making the GFX much cheaper. They are already offering you a bargain for the camera body with the GFX, probably hoping to make the actual buck with those really expensive lenses.
Click to expand...


Spare me the math/sensor real estate tutorial, OK? Fuji GFX sales could very well stall a bit after the early adopters/pets get their fill. It's still a pricey piece of kit with the lens costs factored in. Hard  to see why the Chinese clonemeisters wouldn't jump on cranking out multi-mount lens adapters given the prices of GFX Fujinon glass. Have a look here sometime:

https://petapixel.com/2016/09/21/fujis-new-medium-format-sensor-size-stacks/

Still think we'll see GFX "package" discounts later this year. Fuji never misses a beat with discounts when the market they so assiduously monitor starts to slow up for their merch.


----------



## Derrel

Sensor price for the 44x33 Sony chip at around $1,000 wholesale? Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)

Or is Lloyd Chambers and the $~2,000 to ~$2,500 to ~$3,500 figure correct for the pricing of this sensor?


----------



## Solarflare

cgw said:


> Spare me the math/sensor real estate tutorial, OK?


 Yikes.


----------

