# Questions about selling myself as a Product Photographer



## odanshan (Nov 25, 2013)

Good Morning!

I have been contacted to be a contract photographer for a local kennel. It is a reoccurring, weekly job. I would be taking photos of about 35 puppies every week, I have to edit the photos and upload them onto a website and social media sites. I have done this type of contract job before for a jewelry company. There I was paid $16.00 per hour. For this job, the employer and I agreed that getting paid per puppy would be easier on everyone. Based on my research I came to the number of $7 per puppy which includes the photos, editing and uploading. This is a pretty specific job and it requires an additional knowledge of dog training and patience. The employer counter offered $2 per puppy. I dont know if I should be offended or not. Based on my research other photographers in my area charge upwards of $20 per product for over 30 products. I really felt like I was giving them a good deal. I really want this job but if they cant afford to pay me any more that $2 a puppy, how do I tell them that there is no way any photographer would take that job. I guess my main questions is how do I politely counter offer without losing my worth as a photographer?

Odanshan


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## robbins.photo (Nov 25, 2013)

Might want to explain to the employer the time it will take to not only take the photos, but the editing and uploading, etc - and convert that $2 per puppy into an hourly wage, which will most likely work out to less than $2 an hour.   You could make more working for Mcdonalds.


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## ronlane (Nov 25, 2013)

The kennel, I'm assuming is a business person. They should understand that you have costs that have to be covered. Just tell them that this is the lowest amount you can do it for and still make some money. It's not like the kennel is eating that cost (they can just pass it on to their customer.).


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## DanielLewis76 (Nov 25, 2013)

Its clear they put minimal worth on the photos hence why they only wish to pay a minimal amount. You could try selling the solution more than just the photos. As an example if by having photos well taken and deployed to various media outlets  it helped sell 20% more puppies then there is a worth put to taking better photos. However, if there is not tangible benefit added by you taking them rather than them and its purely a time thing then explain, as above, how long the general process takes and therefore how long it will save them if they did it themselves the minimum it will save is their hourly salary which is probably more than $7 a puppy. I wouldn't go below $7 a puppy though if thats why you worked out you need.

It sounds like they are expecting you to be their marketing department but only paying for you time actually taking the photos.


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## KmH (Nov 25, 2013)

Yep &#8593;. Salesmanship is a required skill if you hope to make money from your photography.

You have to be able to justify your price of $7 per puppy.
A written estimate would be helpful, rather than just stating a number:
$3 for use of my knowledge of dog training and patience
$3 for use of my photography knowledge
$3 to photography puppy
$3 for use of my image editing knowledge
$3 to edit the photos
$3 per puppy to license use of my copyrighted images - Use licensing terms - web only, no larger than 400 x 400 px, with a time limit of 3 months.
$1 to upload to the kennel website and social media.
---------------------------------------------------
$19 per puppy



> When an inexperienced business person does business with an experienced business person, the inexperienced business person often gets some very expensive experience.



Tutorials & Forms | American Society of Media Photographers


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## Ihatemymoney (Nov 27, 2013)

Kick rocks, tell to handle it themselves.  If they are that cheap then I wouldn't take my dogs there........................................................
And who knows how they treat there own dogs.  2 bucks a dog is a joke That's not even minimal wage.


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## tirediron (Nov 27, 2013)

I like Keith's rate; the first figure that popped into my head was $15/puppy.  Let's assume that it takes you 30 minutes to drive to the location (.5 hour + fuel/maintenance), 15 minutes to set up your gear (.25 hr) and a total of ten minutes per puppy for shooting and editing (.18 hr/puppy = 6.3 hrs) plus another fifteen minutes to strike gear and a further 30 minutes to drive home, you're at just about exactly 8 hours for $70 based on $2.00/puppy.  That's not even $9.00/hour and you still have to take vehicle expenses, gear depreciation, lunch, and a few other things out of that.  I wouldn't even get out bed for that money.


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## Steve5D (Nov 28, 2013)

odanshan said:


> I really want this job but if they cant afford to pay me any more that $2 a puppy, how do I tell them that there is no way any photographer would take that job.



Permit me to suggest you say this: "I'm sorry, but there's no way any photographer would take this job".

I'd imagine that would convey the message you want them to hear...



> I guess my main questions is how do I politely counter offer without losing my worth as a photographer?



Why do you believe that presenting a counter offer would result in your value as a photographer being diminished?


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## Steve5D (Nov 28, 2013)

tirediron said:


> That's not even $9.00/hour and you still have to take vehicle expenses, *gear depreciation*...



I've always wondered about this. If you're taking gear depreciation into consideration for every gig, at some point you'll break even. 

Any depreciation in the value of the camera caused by shooting some puppies is going to be so profoundly minimal, as opposed to the depreciation if it sits in the bag, that's it's not even worth considering.

What value of depreciation would you assign for that?


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## Dliwevad (Nov 28, 2013)

Is this a humane society or shelter trying to adopt puppies?  Most of those have very little capital and rely on donations and volunteers to exist. Perhaps they are not trying to "gouge" you but simply can't afford more and is looking for a break.    If its a puppy mill then ignore this. 

If its just a business then you will have to decide what is the minimum price to make it worth your time vs the potential of no income at all.


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## tirediron (Nov 28, 2013)

Steve5D said:


> What value of depreciation would you assign for that?


Fair comment; in fact I suppose that depreciation wasn't really the right word.  I factor in a small percentage (very small) of billing toward wear & tear, damage, and future replacement.  I was more using  the term by way of illustration of the fact that there are a lot things to consider in your billing.


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## BevD (Nov 29, 2013)

I am an amatuer photographer. I also raise cocker spaniel puppies. My pups sell quickly because my photos are fairly good.  Tell them that they need to spend some money on advertising - I would gladly pay $50/pic if I needed to get someone else to do it,.


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