# Lighting deep set eyes?



## TylerF (May 11, 2010)

so some of you might recall a senior shoot i did with a young lady. though both she and her mom loved them, we decided to do a follow up shoot. she has naturally heavy eye lids which were a bit of a challenge. i was wondering if there was any way to try lighting her to bring out her best features. i was thinking maybe have her look slightly up at the camera. not sure though. thanks

example


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## scorpion_tyr (May 11, 2010)

I know you can't do it for all your shots, but if she's laying on her back and tilting her head back, gravity might help the eyelid problem. Maybe get really creative and figure out a way to shoot upside down, and then flip the image?


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## TylerF (May 11, 2010)

haha i can see it now "hey, could you do a handstand so gravity can open your eyes more?" haha i might try that one pose on the back looking up. its hard to get directional lighting because shadows are created and deepen her eyes


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## Bitter Jeweler (May 11, 2010)

Her eyes don't look deeply set. Her eyelids look lazy.
You may need to gently remind her to try to open them as wide as she can.

When I was the subject of a photosoot, the photographer kept yelling at me to open my eyes. It actually became funny, and got some great expressions.  

Eyes are tough though. They can easily make goofy pictures/expressions.


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## TylerF (May 12, 2010)

yeah, im gonna have to. she knows she has them so she wont be offended. thanks for the input.


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## Big Mike (May 12, 2010)

I agree, the don't look too deep set, just partially closed.  

If your model did have deep set eyes, you can use a reflector and hold it (have someone hold it) below them.  For head shots, they can even hold it themselves.


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## Sw1tchFX (May 12, 2010)

Those don't seem like they're deep set, more like she's got a cold, her nose is red too. I'm sure she wasn't sick though. 

So for things like that where they eye sockets are a little wierd, just use the clone stamp at 50% opacity and grab some of her cheek bones or forehead, a lighter skintone and just paint in the sockets and her nose:


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## KmH (May 12, 2010)

She needs help with her makeup too.


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## reznap (May 12, 2010)

KmH said:


> She needs help with her makeup too.



Doesn't look to me like she's wearing any..

Tyler, I liked the one picture you took of her where she wasn't smiling.


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## Sbuxo (May 12, 2010)

I agree. The makeup (or lack thereof) doesn't compliment or help anything. I think if you do looking up to the camera, they might look forced, but see what you can get.  It'd be best if she put a foundation *all *over her face & neck and then applied some light makeup, or if she wants to keep it natural, just a natural color on the eyelids to take away the redness and then powder the face to set it.  I'd recommend going to MAC and buying just the setting powder and eyeshadow and letting them do the makeup.  It's spending money (not a lot) but they'll know how to bring out the best.
I also think, that for a senior picture, she looks just so plain.  I think she'd look good with some waves in her hair and a nicer shirt, but if that's not her style, it's not my say. Just suggesting.
As for photos, the proper makeup should aid and if you count before you shoot, that could maybe remind her to keep her eyes open for that time of the shot.  
Hope that helped, good luck!


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## EOS_JD (May 12, 2010)

Reflector or a pop of fill flash for deep set eyes althouh I'd say a reflector would lift most images - I certainly don't use it enough but see the difference a well directed reflector can make.

the reflector doesn't need to be below the subject - could be a few feet away but so long as it directs the light into the right area.

As stated the eyes don't look inset - she just needs to open them which comes from your direction if you see that happening.

Good luck
Jim


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## TylerF (May 12, 2010)

thanks everyone for the help. i dont really feel comfortable telling her to change her make up or outfit, if its what she likes and it's her style, then i think thats how she should look i guess. im all about capturing people as they are if that makes sense. the weather today kinda stinks so we rescheduled. thanks everyone again, i will follow up when the shoot is done


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## Sbuxo (May 12, 2010)

sure that makes sense, but how will you know it's not her style if you don't ask? I thought it would've taken the focus off her eyes a bit and looked more like a senior portrait and not so..in my eyes, normal posed shots. if you're going to be scared to give suggestions or ask questions...idk. but horray for going against the grain i guess. if you're not gonna suggest to change/apply a bit of simple makeup because you don't want to offend her, then i hope you retouch the redness.


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## aliciaqw (May 12, 2010)

TylerF said:


> thanks everyone for the help. i dont really feel comfortable telling her to change her make up or outfit, if its what she likes and it's her style, then i think thats how she should look i guess. im all about capturing people as they are if that makes sense. the weather today kinda stinks so we rescheduled. thanks everyone again, i will follow up when the shoot is done


 

This is YOUR art.  You are putting YOUR name on it.  While the client is the one ordering the prints, the images should look exactly how YOU want them to.  Would you tell her if she had a booger in her nose?  Probably.  So you should be able to tell her, "Hey, I think a taupe color on your eyelids would make your eyes pop.  Wanna try?"  And as a photographer, you should have NO problem suggesting what people wear.  Yes, it's their photo, but it's your creative expression.  Don't be afraid to ask for what you want.

A little off-topic, but there are photogs that ask you to email them photos before they book your session.  How shallow is that?  They only shoot certain "types".  Crazy!!


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## KmH (May 12, 2010)

TylerF said:


> im all about capturing people as they are if that makes sense.


Forget about making money then.


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## Bitter Jeweler (May 12, 2010)

TylerF said:


> im all about capturing people as they are if that makes sense.


 
Then go into photojournalism, or street photog. Nobody is suggesting you go all out "Glamour Shots."

People are vain, and want to look better than what they know they look like. This is why you try to accentuate the positives, and camoflage the negatives. This is why you don't have poses that forshorten thighs. It makes them look fat. Nobody wants that.

This girls eyelids are a negative. You need to at least try to make them less noticable.


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## aliciaqw (May 12, 2010)

KmH said:


> TylerF said:
> 
> 
> > im all about capturing people as they are if that makes sense.
> ...


 

People don't want to look like themselves in a picture.  Your job is to make them look BETTER.  That's the idea of photography, isn't it?  To present something ordinary in an extraordinary fashion?  I dunno, I tend to think so.


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## Derrel (May 12, 2010)

I thought that in the first shoot you did of her that when she was looking upward that her eyelids lifted up and she looked 'conventional'. She has what some people would call unconventional beauty,and I have a feeling that she has a personality that practically radiates from her being...I don't think the plain rock wall really leverages her strengths, since the setting is too man-made, and she looks more of the natural world. I think a naturalistic setting would be best for her. I think KmH's suggestions about taking more of a director's role in your photo shoots would help. Let her know, by telling her, "I really want the photos to be as good as we can make them," and then make your suggestions, right after saying that. It shows that you care, and that you have ideas on how to make your visions become photographic reality.

I have a feeling that she'd also photograph well in a "fun" setting, like an amusement park or playground or fun house; some place where she'd be free to actually sit on the rides, hop in the bumper cars, etc,etc. A lot of the Japanese photographers on the Impress Watch site's Photogenic Weekend use this type of offhand style.


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## vtf (May 12, 2010)

I believe she knows you are working on perfecting your shots, Id take a look as other professionally done shots shes had done if any and see what the difference is and work on that. If there is little difference from yours then maybe her makeup could improve, I know makeup can make a dramatic change in appearance sometimes. I'd google how to improve the makeup.


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## TylerF (May 12, 2010)

I really appreciate everyone taking the time to respond and help out. When I got my senior portraits done, I did not want too dress up or anything that "wasn't me". So I guess I'm kinda forgetting that maybe I'm not normal lol. With her being a friend and a co-worker, idk how to go about telling her to change make-up. I don't want to offend.


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## Sbuxo (May 12, 2010)

i thought you said she knows about her eyes and wouldn't get offended? if she had a booger you wouldn't tell her either?


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## TylerF (May 12, 2010)

well that's a bit different. idk, if i was a girl and someone said to try different makeup, i would take it that i do it poorly all the time i guess lol. idk, maybe im just too nice or something?


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## Sbuxo (May 12, 2010)

ok lets say you don't tell her.
if you retouch this and "make her up" on photoshop, will that offend her? if you're going to be shy around your CUSTOMER, then I don't think you should be taking portraits.


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## TylerF (May 12, 2010)

shes not a customer. i am doing this as a favor. its my first time and people are ripping into me lol. i dont think i would have a problem in the future with saying "you know, i noticed you have stunning (fill in the blank) and i think if you maybe wore this or did your makeup this way it would really help bring it out and really look good"


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## Sbuxo (May 12, 2010)

she's still a client, paying or not.
and if you just wanted a 'oh, nothing, you're doing great', then you're in the wrong place. -_-
i understand that it's just a favor and you don't want to make the girl feel insecure and blablabla, but really, to bring out the best, you need to suggest.
OH sh!t, i rhymed. I didn't even mean to either.
Anyways, yeah.


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## TylerF (May 12, 2010)

to me, customer means there is some sort of transaction in which she gives me something in return for the pictures. she is not. regardless, i have been here a while and know to expect honest criticism. which is fine with me. but to say "you shouldnt be doing portraits" is kinda rude. you could have said something along the lines of "if you want to be successful in the portrait world, you are going to need to overcome the shyness" and i am literally only nervous about this stuff with her. nobody else. but i have been talking to her and she knows i am looking at different makeup techniques to make features really pop. she doesnt wear that much makeup and im a guy who is just looking into it, so i dont want to have her put on makeup and it look worse cuz we both suck at putting it on. lol


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## Sbuxo (May 12, 2010)

TylerF said:


> to me, customer means there is some sort of transaction in which she gives me something in return for the pictures. she is not. regardless, i have been here a while and know to expect honest criticism. which is fine with me. but to say "you shouldnt be doing portraits" is kinda rude. you could have said something along the lines of "if you want to be successful in the portrait world, you are going to need to overcome the shyness" and i am literally only nervous about this stuff with her. nobody else. but i have been talking to her and she knows i am looking at different makeup techniques to make features really pop. she doesnt wear that much makeup and im a guy who is just looking into it, so i dont want to have her put on makeup and it look worse cuz we both suck at putting it on. lol


It wasn't rude, just blunt. Sorry if I offended you. And I understand that you guys suck at makeup, that's why I suggested a makeup artist.  Oh jeez, I hope that didn't sound too rude. -_- I totally meant it in a lighthearted way. -_-


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## TylerF (May 12, 2010)

no need to be sarcastic, im not offended easily and wasnt by ur comment, just kinda put me on the defensive. but i dont think being somewhat shy with 1 person is grounds for me giving up portraits. its a learning experience and i know i have a lot to learn. a makeup artist is a bit much for this shoot. i dont think she would be too into that. but thanks again everyone for the input. i will make a follow up thread as soon as the weather clears up a bit and we shoot.


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## Bitter Jeweler (May 12, 2010)




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## Sw1tchFX (May 12, 2010)

You could always do something like this:


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## Sbuxo (May 13, 2010)

TylerF said:


> no need to be sarcastic, im not offended easily and wasnt by ur comment, just kinda put me on the defensive. but i dont think being somewhat shy with 1 person is grounds for me giving up portraits. its a learning experience and i know i have a lot to learn. a makeup artist is a bit much for this shoot. i dont think she would be too into that. but thanks again everyone for the input. i will make a follow up thread as soon as the weather clears up a bit and we shoot.


Sarcasm doesn't translate well into text, does it? I wasn't being sarcastic, I just noticed that it could come off as rude when it wasn't intended to be.  Okay about the makeup artist, even if you do find out flattering looks, I hope you find a good tutorial or something. And I saw you saying about how you like her and what not, is that why you're shy with her? Are you scared that a suggestion will ruin your chances? I'm not gonna say I'm sorry for telling you how I told you something, but yeah, you do have to get over your shyness as a photographer with her because it could become a bad habit. And by the way, you don't want to make her eyes *pop*, I think you want to conceal them a bit.
And :lmao::er:@ BitterJeweler!


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## TylerF (May 13, 2010)

i agree, im a very sarcastic person and always have trouble when typing or texting lol


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## Sbuxo (May 13, 2010)

Sarcasm + Text...When I want people to get my sarcasm they don't, and when I'm not applying any sarcasm at all, they somehow squeeze some out. -_-


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## Sw1tchFX (May 13, 2010)

Maybe travolta was too much, how's this?








 i'm having way too much fun with this!


ok srsly, i'm done. i'll quit it. I have a huge paper to write for tomorrow anyway


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## Sbuxo (May 13, 2010)

lmao sw1tchfx.
your name suits you.


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## vtf (May 13, 2010)

TylerF said:


> well that's a bit different. idk, if i was a girl and someone said to try different makeup, i would take it that i do it poorly all the time i guess lol. idk, maybe im just too nice or something?


Spoken like a true man. 
But seriously, dont people go to a portrait pro and get make up and such that the client may not have worn normally in order to enhance the shot?


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