# Print Markup Percent??



## D-B-J

I've just done a few hours of math to figure out how much it costs to print/frame my photos for my upcoming gallery showing. Now that I know my cost;  what percent to mark up? 60%? 100%? 25%? Like, to frame a 20x30 print (order from adoramapix...build frame, buy glass) it's about $46. A 100% markup makes that around $100 for a handmade frame and print. To me, that seems dirt cheap. So... How do you judge it? Do you use percents? Or a set dollar value? Or?

Any help is appreciated!

Jake


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## tirediron

I arrived at mine based on CODB calculations...  mark-up varies from about 250% on large wall art to 1800% on a 4x6.


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## D-B-J

tirediron said:


> I arrived at mine based on CODB calculations...  mark-up varies from about 250% on large wall art to 1800% on a 4x6.



Can you elaborate on the CODB calculations?


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## SpikeyJohnson

I've wondered about this before.  I visited a gallery last year during a photo class and saw the prices of the photos.  Many of the metal aluminumized prints were in the thousands of dollars and the canvas or paper prints were hundreds to thousands based on size.   It can be so hard to decide prices that I still haven't come up with it prices for my shoots or prints.  It is the only thing stopping me from soliciting business, getting my business license and publishing my website.


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## D-B-J

I guess my biggest worry is pricing myself out of business. Sure, 250% sounds awesome,
And so does the profit, but I worry that they'll become too expensive for clients to buy them. Ya know? I have no idea how to best strike the balance..


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## tirediron

Hard costs (Studio rental, insurance, gear purchases/upgrades, etc, etc) + salary for a month divided by expected # of sessions/month = desired per-session revenue.  Per-session revenue - session fee = [hoped for] print sale revenue.  Based on what prints people seem to buy, I determined a cost per product.


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## tirediron

D-B-J said:


> I guess my biggest worry is pricing myself out of business. Sure, 250% sounds awesome,
> And so does the profit, but I worry that they'll become too expensive for clients to buy them. Ya know? I have no idea how to best strike the balance..


Higher prices do not necessarily price you out of business; rather they can (and do) add a perception of value to the product.  Which do you think will brag about more; the $3.50 8x10 Wal-mart print they did themselves or the "Oh it was expensive, but sooo worth it" $40 (and that's cheap) professional print you sell them?


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## D-B-J

tirediron said:


> D-B-J said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess my biggest worry is pricing myself out of business. Sure, 250% sounds awesome,
> And so does the profit, but I worry that they'll become too expensive for clients to buy them. Ya know? I have no idea how to best strike the balance..
> 
> 
> 
> Higher prices do not necessarily price you out of business; rather they can (and do) add a perception of value to the product.  Which do you think will brag about more; the $3.50 8x10 Wal-mart print they did themselves or the "Oh it was expensive, but sooo worth it" $40 (and that's cheap) professional print you sell them?
Click to expand...


Excellent point. And my father and I built/painted the frames I'll be selling, so I'd like to think that adds a bit of... Let's just call it "emotional" value... Right?


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## tirediron

D-B-J said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> D-B-J said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess my biggest worry is pricing myself out of business. Sure, 250% sounds awesome,
> And so does the profit, but I worry that they'll become too expensive for clients to buy them. Ya know? I have no idea how to best strike the balance..
> 
> 
> 
> Higher prices do not necessarily price you out of business; rather they can (and do) add a perception of value to the product.  Which do you think will brag about more; the $3.50 8x10 Wal-mart print they did themselves or the "Oh it was expensive, but sooo worth it" $40 (and that's cheap) professional print you sell them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Excellent point. And my father and I built/painted the frames I'll be selling, so I'd like to think that adds a bit of... Let's just call it "emotional" value... Right?
Click to expand...

 Absolutely - however I'll add that framed prints don't appear to be all that popular right now, at least in my area.  Canvas gallery wraps, float wraps, and 'invisible hung' metal prints are what's popular.


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## D-B-J

tirediron said:


> D-B-J said:
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> tirediron said:
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> D-B-J said:
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> I guess my biggest worry is pricing myself out of business. Sure, 250% sounds awesome,
> And so does the profit, but I worry that they'll become too expensive for clients to buy them. Ya know? I have no idea how to best strike the balance..
> 
> 
> 
> Higher prices do not necessarily price you out of business; rather they can (and do) add a perception of value to the product.  Which do you think will brag about more; the $3.50 8x10 Wal-mart print they did themselves or the "Oh it was expensive, but sooo worth it" $40 (and that's cheap) professional print you sell them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Excellent point. And my father and I built/painted the frames I'll be selling, so I'd like to think that adds a bit of... Let's just call it "emotional" value... Right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Absolutely - however I'll add that framed prints don't appear to be all that popular right now, at least in my area.  Canvas gallery wraps, float wraps, and 'invisible hung' metal prints are what's popular.
Click to expand...


Which makes sense. Sadly, they are prohibitively expensive to buy for a gallery showing in which I wholly expect to sell nothing. I mean, I did it as "cheaply" as possible and it still cost close to $500. My plan from here out is to slowly stockpile images (prints w/ frames, canvases, metal prints, etc) so if I ever run into this "hey wanna have a gallery showing in two months?!" Situation I'll be more prepared.

Jake


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## SpikeyJohnson

For those of us who are still only doing a few shoots a month the pricing would be crazy if we went off desired salary.  At least until we are booked full or past a certain limit that allows us to go full time, what would you consider a reasonable amount to charge for say a session on location or in the woods for about half an hour to an hour?

I feel my work is getting pretty great (I need to post more for critique but have been having a professional critique it from my school (don't worry he books and shoots regularly, ie not just a teacher)) and people like my work I just don't know how to set a price that can be competetive but also value my time.


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## tirediron

D-B-J said:


> tirediron said:
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> D-B-J said:
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> tirediron said:
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> D-B-J said:
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> I guess my biggest worry is pricing myself out of business. Sure, 250% sounds awesome,
> And so does the profit, but I worry that they'll become too expensive for clients to buy them. Ya know? I have no idea how to best strike the balance..
> 
> 
> 
> Higher prices do not necessarily price you out of business; rather they can (and do) add a perception of value to the product.  Which do you think will brag about more; the $3.50 8x10 Wal-mart print they did themselves or the "Oh it was expensive, but sooo worth it" $40 (and that's cheap) professional print you sell them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Excellent point. And my father and I built/painted the frames I'll be selling, so I'd like to think that adds a bit of... Let's just call it "emotional" value... Right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Absolutely - however I'll add that framed prints don't appear to be all that popular right now, at least in my area.  Canvas gallery wraps, float wraps, and 'invisible hung' metal prints are what's popular.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Which makes sense. Sadly, they are prohibitively expensive to buy for a gallery showing in which I wholly expect to sell nothing. I mean, I did it as "cheaply" as possible and it still cost close to $500. My plan from here out is to slowly stockpile images (prints w/ frames, canvases, metal prints, etc) so if I ever run into this "hey wanna have a gallery showing in two months?!" Situation I'll be more prepared.
> 
> Jake
Click to expand...

 A gallery showing is a slightly different animal; for that I would want consistency, so all prints would have the same frames/mattes (colours as appropriate to suit the print), so that all of my work had a common look and feel to it.


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## D-B-J

tirediron said:


> D-B-J said:
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> tirediron said:
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> D-B-J said:
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> tirediron said:
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> D-B-J said:
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> I guess my biggest worry is pricing myself out of business. Sure, 250% sounds awesome,
> And so does the profit, but I worry that they'll become too expensive for clients to buy them. Ya know? I have no idea how to best strike the balance..
> 
> 
> 
> Higher prices do not necessarily price you out of business; rather they can (and do) add a perception of value to the product.  Which do you think will brag about more; the $3.50 8x10 Wal-mart print they did themselves or the "Oh it was expensive, but sooo worth it" $40 (and that's cheap) professional print you sell them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Excellent point. And my father and I built/painted the frames I'll be selling, so I'd like to think that adds a bit of... Let's just call it "emotional" value... Right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Absolutely - however I'll add that framed prints don't appear to be all that popular right now, at least in my area.  Canvas gallery wraps, float wraps, and 'invisible hung' metal prints are what's popular.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Which makes sense. Sadly, they are prohibitively expensive to buy for a gallery showing in which I wholly expect to sell nothing. I mean, I did it as "cheaply" as possible and it still cost close to $500. My plan from here out is to slowly stockpile images (prints w/ frames, canvases, metal prints, etc) so if I ever run into this "hey wanna have a gallery showing in two months?!" Situation I'll be more prepared.
> 
> Jake
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A gallery showing is a slightly different animal; for that I would want consistency, so all prints would have the same frames/mattes (colours as appropriate to suit the print), so that all of my work had a common look and feel to it.
Click to expand...


Which is what I'll have. They are all the same print material (Kodak endura Lustre) all in the same sized frame [emoji106][emoji106]


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## tirediron

SpikeyJohnson said:


> For those of us who are still only doing a few shoots a month the pricing would be crazy if we went off desired salary.  At least until we are booked full or past a certain limit that allows us to go full time, what would you consider a reasonable amount to charge for say a session on location or in the woods for about half an hour to an hour?
> 
> I feel my work is getting pretty great (I need to post more for critique but have been having a professional critique it from my school (don't worry he books and shoots regularly, ie not just a teacher)) and people like my work I just don't know how to set a price that can be competetive but also value my time.


Set prices which are based on calculations that assume you are doing it full time.  In other words, if you would need to shoot 30 sessions a month and realize a minimum of $500/session to meet CODB & salary expectations, then use those numbers.  That allows you to set numbers which are reasonable and appropriate, and don't have to be constantly adjusted as business builds.


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## jsecordphoto

D-B-J said:


> Which makes sense. Sadly, they are prohibitively expensive to buy for a gallery showing in which I wholly expect to sell nothing. I mean, I did it as "cheaply" as possible and it still cost close to $500. My plan from here out is to slowly stockpile images (prints w/ frames, canvases, metal prints, etc) so if I ever run into this "hey wanna have a gallery showing in two months?!" Situation I'll be more prepared.
> 
> Jake



That's what I started doing, slowly building a good inventory that way if I needed to hang photos somewhere I had enough on hand. I feel like my prices are a little too cheap though, I have a few 10x15 prints, matted and framed to 16x20 for $149. $100 for a framed 20x30 is really cheap though, I see most photographers in my area charging more than $100 for just a 20x30 print on their site, nevermind framing


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## D-B-J

jsecordphoto said:


> D-B-J said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which makes sense. Sadly, they are prohibitively expensive to buy for a gallery showing in which I wholly expect to sell nothing. I mean, I did it as "cheaply" as possible and it still cost close to $500. My plan from here out is to slowly stockpile images (prints w/ frames, canvases, metal prints, etc) so if I ever run into this "hey wanna have a gallery showing in two months?!" Situation I'll be more prepared.
> 
> Jake
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's what I started doing, slowly building a good inventory that way if I needed to hang photos somewhere I had enough on hand. I feel like my prices are a little too cheap though, I have a few 10x15 prints, matted and framed to 16x20 for $149. $100 for a framed 20x30 is really cheap though, I see most photographers in my area charging more than $100 for just a 20x30 print on their site, nevermind framing
Click to expand...


Good to know.... I'll think about it.


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## bribrius

dunno. If you could sell three and cover your five hundred dollar costs I would start there. so maybe 150-175 each? You may not sell any though....hard to tell.
just throwing this out there no idea.
it might actually have more to do with your market area and the gallery itself, where this is taking place. Everyone I know buys paintings, prints I see are in the hundred dollar or less range usually. shoot i have seen unframed prints for twenty bucks. That is just where I live though no one here is really into prints especially if you are a unknown...
I know of a painter that sells prints of their paintings for sixty dollars each numbered .
for me, and I was trying to sell the things, fifty buck. I kid you not. For a 8x10 I would trade a pack of cigarettes. lol


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## SpikeyJohnson

I have only seen high quality, expensive prints sold at a persons personal gallery.  The rest are usually cheaper items sold at a craft store or similar where they print is probably super cheap but the mark up is huge in order to make profit.  I know a lot of people are advertising their prints online through certain services (I can't name them at the moment).  They seem to be offering them at a "standard" price that is much higher than one would buy something from Walmart, Hobby Lobby, or even some small art stores. I'll check my Facebook and see if I can find a link to one of these and post it.  I would also assume that they are selling them cheaper than what you would purchase them from a gallery where you could go see the work first and also to compensate for gaining business online.


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## SpikeyJohnson

Here are a few links to some local photographers here in Utah.  Your market should be different but it's a rough idea.

Giclee Photo Prints, Framing, and other Finishing Options for Willie Holdman Photographs
Doesn't show prices but shows the work he is doing.  I have visited this gallery in Park City and he has amazing prints but I remember prices being high.

Purchase | Rory W Photography
A local photographer I follow on instagram for ispiration.


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## vintagesnaps

Pricing Guides | American Society of Media Photographers Under 'Calculating your Cost of Doing Business' there's a link to an online calculator on NPPA's site.

When I've submitted to juried exhibits I look at the pricing for exhibitions at the gallery where it will be displayed and use that as a guideline. Usually it ranges from about $150-200 for a small framed print to $400-500 or higher; for large works and/or those by more well known, established photographers/artists it can range in the hundreds or higher (but I haven't seen a lot priced in the higher end of the range).


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## D-B-J

That's what I came up with. It probably seems cheap to some, but I do need a profit and I do need a profit, and I'm not "established" so i can't charge the arm and a leg that some fancy photog's do.

Jake


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## jsecordphoto

Still seems really cheap to me. Something to keep in mind is that once you set prices, it's hard to raise them in the future. The print prices don't seem too low, it's the framed prices- especially for bigger prints, that I feel are too low. That's just my opinion of course, charge whatever you'd like.


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## D-B-J

jsecordphoto said:


> Still seems really cheap to me. Something to keep in mind is that once you set prices, it's hard to raise them in the future. The print prices don't seem too low, it's the framed prices- especially for bigger prints, that I feel are too low. That's just my opinion of course, charge whatever you'd like.



I just worry about sticker shock and not selling ANY. Ya know?


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## tirediron

jsecordphoto said:


> Still seems really cheap to me. Something to keep in mind is that once you set prices, it's hard to raise them in the future. The print prices don't seem too low, it's the framed prices- especially for bigger prints, that I feel are too low. That's just my opinion of course, charge whatever you'd like.


 I have to agree; my price on an unframed 20x30 is almost twice what yours is, but we're almost identical on the 8x10.


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## jsecordphoto

D-B-J said:


> jsecordphoto said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still seems really cheap to me. Something to keep in mind is that once you set prices, it's hard to raise them in the future. The print prices don't seem too low, it's the framed prices- especially for bigger prints, that I feel are too low. That's just my opinion of course, charge whatever you'd like.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just worry about sticker shock and not selling ANY. Ya know?
Click to expand...


I had the same fear, and set my prices similarly (just a touch higher) at my first show. I sold a few small prints, but didn't even come close to breaking even. This was at an art gallery in my hometown that is overrun with rich tourists in the summer, and a lot of them art buyers. A few people came up to me and told me how much they liked my work, but I needed to raise the prices, because it gives the implication that they are worth more (sounds dumb, but it makes sense). 

I certainly felt my work was worth more, I put a lot of time into creating those photos....lots of early mornings, in the freezing cold, or all nighters shooting the Milky Way. A lot of sacrifice goes into our work, am I wrong? Next show I raised the prices, mostly on bigger pieces, and sold more. I still had leftover prints, but I made around $300 in profit after covering the initial cost. I still feel like my prices are too low though. But don't sell yourself short man, mark them at prices you feel that they are worth, not what you think what they will sell at (within reason obviously)


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## D-B-J

Re adjusted a bit but still kept them in the sale-able range. Thoughts?


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## jsecordphoto

Looks good man. Hope your show goes well! I usually have a lot of fun at them, and actually have one coming up on Saturday, it's a small show though.


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## xzyragon

Following this to get more info


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