# Canon 7D2 vs 1D4



## GeorgianBayBoy (Dec 29, 2015)

Well, I've decided to upgrade from my trusty old Canon 7D camera and get something a little more modern. I shoot primarily birds and wildlife with a Sigma 150-600. I've pretty much got it down to the 7D mk2 or the 1D mk4. The 1D4 has lower noise at high ISO which will accomodate my F6.3 lens better in low light conditions like early dawn or dusk. I don't like the noise in my images with the 7D.  The 7D2 has an amazing autofocus system, state of the art, but the 1D4 isn't bad either. The 7D2 new is the same price as the 1D4 used, and this is my price point. 

I have no hands on experience with either of these cameras. Is there anyone who's played with both that could share their experiences with me?

Regards,

Darrell


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## DB_Cro (Dec 29, 2015)

Just one thing that's down to pixel pitch and such (really don't wanna get technical at 1:30AM), 
the 7D2 images will "take" the cropping better even if you had to crop the same amount, which you
don't since 7D2 is 1.6x crop (compared to the 1.3x crop on 1D4). 

If you can fill the frame with your lenses on the 1D4 without cropping, I have no doubt that image will look better.
If you have to crop out like 50% of the image on your current 7D, you'd probably want to stick with the 7D2.

The ISO thing you seem to have figured out though.

I'd get the 7D2.


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## GeorgianBayBoy (Dec 29, 2015)

Thanks DB_cro, I often do crop my photos, hadn't thought about differences in pixel counts and size of pixels.


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## DB_Cro (Dec 29, 2015)

Yeah!  That is a deal breaker for most and why most wildlife shooters don't do full frame.

1D4 with it's 1.3x crop has an advantage on other FF stuff here but.. you'd need a 50mpix (or so) FF 
sensor to compete with that pixel pitch. Even if 7D2 and 1D4 had the same megapixel count (and 1D4
is 4mpix short), the 7D2 would still have an advantage here. 

Nikon D7200 does very well here since that sensor should do better in low light then 7D2 and has 4mpix more,
but that's not what us Canon guys want to hear. 

I really want to hear your opinion on the high ISO stuff if you do end up getting the 7D2, compared to the original 7D.
I'm sure you've read all the reviews and seen all the YouTube vids (some of that stuff is seriously impressive).


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## gsgary (Dec 29, 2015)

DB_Cro said:


> Yeah!  That is a deal breaker for most and why most wildlife shooters don't do full frame.
> 
> 1D4 with it's 1.3x crop has an advantage on other FF stuff here but.. you'd need a 50mpix (or so) FF
> sensor to compete with that pixel pitch. Even if 7D2 and 1D4 had the same megapixel count (and 1D4
> ...


That's a new one on me, all the wildlife shooters I know have 1Dx or D4


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## DB_Cro (Dec 29, 2015)

Most people just go out and buy the most expensive body but..

Nothing wrong with those two if you can put a 600 or 800mm lens on them, they are, of course,
better then a $2000 crop camera, BUT, if you need to use a shorter lens and crop, the results
would be better from a crop sensor camera with a high mpix count. Google the 'pixel pitch' thing,
there's good youtube vids on the subject too.

So, again, since I know people will read this using a fraction
of their brain.. no.. I'm not suggesting a 7D2 will produce 
better images then (any) FF camera.


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## gsgary (Dec 29, 2015)

DB_Cro said:


> Most people just go out and buy the most expensive body but..
> 
> Nothing wrong with those two if you can put a 600 or 800mm lens on them, they are, of course,
> better then a $2000 crop camera, BUT, if you need to use a shorter lens and crop, the results
> ...


Have you not heard of stealth and patience 600mm is plenty but you can manage with 400mm


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## DB_Cro (Dec 29, 2015)

I'm answering OP's question, not questioning his methods.
Unsubscribing.


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## weepete (Dec 29, 2015)

Well I've not played with either. But I have seen that you can expect a 25% better performance in noise reduction between the 7D and the mkII. While I've played with a 5D mkiii and a 1DX I think you'd be better off with the 1D4 as I recon there is less noise at high ISOs on the 1D4 which is much more of the limitation here.


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## wyogirl (Dec 29, 2015)

I can't speak to the 1D4 but I am very happy with the ISO performance of the 7D2.... As well as many other features.


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## jsecordphoto (Dec 29, 2015)

DB_Cro said:


> I'm answering OP's question, not questioning his methods.
> Unsubscribing.



Don't worry about Gary, all he does is trolls threads to either talk about how much better film is than digital, argue for no reason, etc. The guy must have a really dismal life to spend all his time doing that


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## Derrel (Dec 29, 2015)

This reviewer used the similar Tamron 150-600, and found the best AF he could get was on the 7D-II...

Super Zoom? Tamron SP 150-600mm F5.0-6.3 Di VC USD Field Test


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## Rgollar (Dec 29, 2015)

You can get a good idea by looking at Kristofer Rowes flicker account. He shots the 7dm2 and  1d mk4 so he has plenty of photos to compare. I have the 7dm2 and the 1dx and there no comparison in my opinion that the 1dx is way better. Again thats just from my experience of using both. I only use the 7dm2 if the light is really good, then it performs great. I know losing the 1.6 crop is alot but if you expose properly I can crop a ton and get clean images with the 1dx. I can also shoot at 10000 ISO and come out with a clean image if you dont have to crop much. All I can say is if I had to only have one I would choose the 1d bodies. Now I know I am comparing it to a 1dx not a 1d mk4 but I got friends that have the 1d mk4 and there high iso are very clean. And Every one says the 7dm2 focus system is awesome which it is. I still think the 1d bodies focus better at least for how I shoot. I would ask kris his opinion as on the 2 since he shoots both. Something tells me prefers the 1.6 crop factor though. Good luck in your choice as I dont think you can go wrong either way.


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## GeorgianBayBoy (Dec 29, 2015)

Yes, this is why I'm asking here. I had a 5D mk2 which I used only for Aurora Borealis and landscapes. I found the autofocus and 3.8 frame rate to be serious limitations for the kind of shooting I do. I think I could live with a 1.3 crop 16mp camera if the autofocus performs on par with the 7D2. With birds its all about the keeper rate and I want to have this camera for a few years.


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## coastalconn (Dec 29, 2015)

GeorgianBayBoy said:


> Yes, this is why I'm asking here. I had a 5D mk2 which I used only for Aurora Borealis and landscapes. I found the autofocus and 3.8 frame rate to be serious limitations for the kind of shooting I do. I think I could live with a 1.3 crop 16mp camera if the autofocus performs on par with the 7D2. With birds its all about the keeper rate and I want to have this camera for a few years.


Well, there is no easy answer.  My 7DM2 is slightly soft and has been 2 Canon twice.  I prefer the 7Dm2 for a few reasons, The Af is quicker to acquire and seemingly better tracking.  Once you get the focus cases (derived from the 1dx) and focus points figured out it performs very well.  I came from the Nikon D800 and D7100 and for someone earlier in the thread that mockingly said the D7200, the ISO performance is not such a big deal as everyone makes it to be.  By ISO 400 they perform very similar in terms of noise, and that is where we really shoot with BIF anyways.  

I really had no plans on getting the 1D4, here is the little story about it.. Added a little more magic bird dust to pile today. | Photography Forum  Af performance is still very good, but one thing that drives me nuts is I can't use EC in manual mode with auto-iso.  The Af system is far simpler, so in a way it is a good thing.  Pretty much 1,3,8 or all focus points.  Noise performance is a touch better than the 7dm2, but if you normalize the results and view the 7dm2 at say 50% instead of 100% the results are pretty similar.. 

A few other thoughts.  The 7dm2 seems a bit more customizable with the buttons.  I was a pure BBF guy with Nikon, but I actually switched to Front focus with Canon because I could program the AF-on button to 1 shot.  The 7dM2 shutter is much quieter than the 1d4, and I mean MUCH! 

Now, with all that said the 7dm2 has been my go to camera, but lately I've found myself picking the 1D4 more often.  I think because the 7dm2 is slightly "soft" (and it has been back to Canon twice) the 1D4 produces better images in real life.  On line you will see a split of what I am saying where some sold their 1d4 after getting the 7dm2 and others couldn't get rid of the 7dm2 fast enough and kept the 1d4.  It almost seems to be a bit of a lottery with the 1d4.  I have tons of images, so if you want any raws, let me know...

Here is ISO 8000 on the 1d4.



The Return of George! 10_27 1 by Kristofer Rowe, on Flickr

Here is a 6400 from the 7dm2 (500 f4+1.4x)



Cormorant High ISO 9_13 by Kristofer Rowe, on Flickr


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## GeorgianBayBoy (Dec 29, 2015)

Wow Kris, great input. Thank you.


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## coastalconn (Dec 29, 2015)

GeorgianBayBoy said:


> Wow Kris, great input. Thank you.


Quick edit, meant to say lottery with the 7dm2 at the end...


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## gsgary (Dec 30, 2015)

There are 2 people at our club that are not get sharp images with the 7Dmk2


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## coastalconn (Dec 30, 2015)

gsgary said:


> There are 2 people at our club that are not get sharp images with the 7Dmk2


Have they fine tuned their lenses? Are they using high enough shutter speeds? Have they fine testing on tripod to eliminate user error? Have they sent the bodies back to Canon?  There could be many things that cause I'm sharp images.


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## gsgary (Dec 30, 2015)

Yes they have one of them has been shooting for 50 years he has changed back to a 5Dmk3


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## gsgary (Dec 30, 2015)

Just found this on net and sent them a link Canon Releases New 7D Mark II Firmware Update, Fixes AF Issues


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## coastalconn (Dec 30, 2015)

gsgary said:


> Just found this on net and sent them a link Canon Releases New 7D Mark II Firmware Update, Fixes AF Issues


That one is old, they already released 1.0.5...


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## gsgary (Dec 30, 2015)

I don't take any notice of new cameras, not used my Sony A7 for probably 8 months so that probably needs new firmware


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## RonL (Jan 8, 2016)

I have both and have not used the 1DIV since getting the 7D2. The advantages for the 7D (for me) are the silent shutter, the tracking and the extra pixels. The only downside is the ISO performance, I find the 7D2 maxes out at 1250 ISO which is only 3/4 of a stop more then the original 7D.


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## coastalconn (Jan 12, 2016)

Well maybe the third time will be the charm?  The 7dm2 is all packed up and going back tomorrow for it's third trip to Canon.  I politely expressed my dissatisfaction in continuous tracking with the camera .  Osprey season is only 65 days away and I want to make sure I have a camera that I have confidence in.  If that doesn't work it puts me at a bit of a conundrum...


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## Rgollar (Jan 12, 2016)

Sorry to hear this kris. I can imagine you will be watching the d500 very closely when it comes out and no one could blame you either. Hope they get it fixed for you. But i really wonder if they do anything other then make sure it works and just send it back. I do think mine tracks better since i got mine back but I only use the 7dm2 once in a while since getting the 1d. For me my keeper rate is so much higher on the 1d. But the 7dm2 has its moments. Good luck


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## JacaRanda (Feb 24, 2016)

If I paid the difference in price of the two, I better damned well be getting a better keeper rate


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## beagle100 (Feb 25, 2016)

Rgollar said:


> You can get a good idea by looking at Kristofer Rowes flicker account. He shots the 7dm2 and  1d mk4 so he has plenty of photos to compare. I have the 7dm2 and the 1dx and there no comparison in my opinion that the 1dx is way better. Again thats just from my experience of using both. I only use the 7dm2 if the light is really good, then it performs great. I know losing the 1.6 crop is alot but if you expose properly I can crop a ton and get clean images with the 1dx. I can also shoot at 10000 ISO and come out with a clean image if you dont have to crop much. All I can say is if I had to only have one I would choose the 1d bodies. Now I know I am comparing it to a 1dx not a 1d mk4 but I got friends that have the 1d mk4 and there high iso are very clean. And Every one says the 7dm2 focus system is awesome which it is. I still think the 1d bodies focus better at least for how I shoot. I would ask kris his opinion as on the 2 since he shoots both. Something tells me prefers the 1.6 crop factor though. Good luck in your choice as I dont think you can go wrong either way.



right, many would choose the IDX but it cost  $4,000 !


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## coastalconn (Feb 25, 2016)

beagle100 said:


> Rgollar said:
> 
> 
> > You can get a good idea by looking at Kristofer Rowes flicker account. He shots the 7dm2 and  1d mk4 so he has plenty of photos to compare. I have the 7dm2 and the 1dx and there no comparison in my opinion that the 1dx is way better. Again thats just from my experience of using both. I only use the 7dm2 if the light is really good, then it performs great. I know losing the 1.6 crop is alot but if you expose properly I can crop a ton and get clean images with the 1dx. I can also shoot at 10000 ISO and come out with a clean image if you dont have to crop much. All I can say is if I had to only have one I would choose the 1d bodies. Now I know I am comparing it to a 1dx not a 1d mk4 but I got friends that have the 1d mk4 and there high iso are very clean. And Every one says the 7dm2 focus system is awesome which it is. I still think the 1d bodies focus better at least for how I shoot. I would ask kris his opinion as on the 2 since he shoots both. Something tells me prefers the 1.6 crop factor though. Good luck in your choice as I dont think you can go wrong either way.
> ...


I wouldn't choose the 1dx personally..  When you are focal length limited and add,a 1.4x extender to composenate you loose your 1 stop advantage of full frame..

Anyways the 7dm2 is back at Canon for the 4th and last time.  Hopefully it will be replaced this time with a body that functions as great as the loaner does.. The difference is day and night with both IQ and tracking..


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