# Washing Fiber Based Prints



## wjk (Jan 7, 2007)

Hello all-compliments on a great forum. My question is on washing fiber-based prints---I'd prefer not to use a hypo-clearing agent (though I've used Perma-Wash in the past)---any advice on techniques and times to wash my prints? (I do not have an archival washer). Thanks!


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## ksmattfish (Jan 7, 2007)

If you are using typical fixers without hypo-clear, you are looking at wash times of 1 hour plus.  You can get a testing agent that will tell you if your prints still contain fixer, and determine exactly how long you need to wash for.  

Washing fixer from a print has more to do with a leeching process than running water.  So soaking your prints in water that's changed for fresh every ten minutes or so is probably just as good as the several hundred dollar archival washers.  I started researching these methods because my washer can only handle 11"x14" prints, and I couldn't afford a larger washer.  Do some google searches, and I'm sure you'll find the same articles I did.

I've also switched to using TF-4 for fixer.  It's alkaline instead of acid.  The manufacturer recommends no acid stop bath, no hypo-clear, and 30 min wash times for FB.  I've been using it for about five years now, and really like it.  You can get it at The Photographers' Formulary and Freestyle.


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## ladyphotog (Jan 7, 2007)

Why do you not want to use hypo? I usually wash for about 30-45 minutes after hypo. I would imagine you would need to double or triple that with no hypo. You also won't have the stablizing effects of the hypo.


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## ksmattfish (Jan 8, 2007)

It's just semantics, but in case a newbie is reading, "hypo" is another word for the fixer (at least the sodium thiosulate varieties).  Hypo-clear eliminates the hypo.  Refering to hypo-clear as hypo could be confusing.


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## terri (Jan 8, 2007)

ksmattfish said:


> It's just semantics, but in case a newbie is reading, "hypo" is another word for the fixer (at least the sodium thiosulate varieties). Hypo-clear eliminates the hypo. Refering to hypo-clear as hypo could be confusing.


I've done it myself in conversation while printing at home, and even though my husband knows what I mean, he has had correct me more than once. :blushing: It is hypo-clear. 

I also use plain sodium thiosulfate crystals as a fixing agent when I prepare bromoil prints and refer to it as "plain hypo", so prattling about hypo (crystals) and then hypo (clearing agent) is pretty sloppy of me. :mrgreen:


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## wjk (Jan 8, 2007)

Does TF-4 have an odor (any more than "standard hypo" ) and are there any health or disposal issues with TF-4 more so than "standard hypo?"


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## ksmattfish (Jan 8, 2007)

wjk said:


> Does TF-4 have an odor (any more than "standard hypo" ) and are there any health or disposal issues with TF-4 more so than "standard hypo?"



It may stink worse!  Like ammonia.  The disposal issues are the same.  Most labs have fixer filters that remove the silver from spent fixer.  I take my spent fixer to the local full service lab, and they dispose of it for me.  They get paid for the silver they collect, so they usually don't mind.


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## ksmattfish (Jan 8, 2007)

terri said:


> I've done it myself in conversation while printing at home, and even though my husband knows what I mean...



I do it too.  I know what people mean when they say it, but a newbie might not.  It's sort of like calling "paint thinner" paint, or "grease remover" grease.


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## ladyphotog (Jan 8, 2007)

ksmattfish said:


> It's just semantics, but in case a newbie is reading, "hypo" is another word for the fixer (at least the sodium thiosulate varieties).  Hypo-clear eliminates the hypo.  Refering to hypo-clear as hypo could be confusing.



You are right, I apologize for confusing anyone. I was speaking of hypo-clear when I said hypo. I should have realized that it could have been confused as to what I was talking about. Thanks for the reminder.


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## ksmattfish (Jan 8, 2007)

ladyphotog said:


> Thanks for the reminder.



No problem.  Thanks for not thinking I was trying to be a jerk.


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## Philip Weir (Jan 9, 2007)

ladyphotog said:


> Why do you not want to use hypo? I usually wash for about 30-45 minutes after hypo. I would imagine you would need to double or triple that with no hypo. You also won't have the stablizing effects of the hypo.



I must agree with "ladyphotog" Why do you not want to use hypo [hypo clear]. I may not want to use soap when I wash, but believe me, it helps. I always hypo for fixing with sodium metabisulphite as an hardening agent, but always used a hypo clearing agent if I wanted the prints to last. In Australia,  we also have to consider the water restrictions, we don't have enough of the clear stuff.


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## Christie Photo (Jan 9, 2007)

Philip Weir said:


> I must agree with "ladyphotog" Why do you not want to use hypo [hypo clear]?



I'm wondering the same.  I always used Perma Wash.  The prints I made more than 30 years ago look as good as the day I made them.


Pete

P.S.   In the early days, I used Kodak's hypo clearing agent


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## wjk (Jan 9, 2007)

I was concerned about one more chemical (Perma-Wash) to have to dispose of and expose my prints too---seems to me water is safer (though I too am concerned about the amount of water needed to archivally wash prints....)


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## terri (Jan 9, 2007)

wjk said:


> I was concerned about one more chemical (Perma-Wash) to have to dispose of and expose my prints too---seems to me water is safer (though I too am concerned about the amount of water needed to archivally wash prints....)


Right, and you'll reduce that time by using some type of hypoclearig agent. 

There are print washers out there that are supposedly designed to use less water, as well.


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## Majik Imaje (Mar 3, 2007)

..........a Kodak tray syphon gizmo thingy!

they are inexpensive and turn any tray into an archive washer.

I got big trays 20 x 24 deep for my washer.. and place that kodak thing on it and presto.. perfect print washer.


QUESTION: ?  how do you develop and wash color film when you have NO RUNNING WATER?  I had to melt snow!  60 rolls of color film!

twenty seven years later.. these negatives are in pristine condition!


my print washer:  http://majikimaje.com/drkrm15.jpg  opps the gizmo thingy is on the right on the counter.. oh well.. I tried. get a kodak tray syphon!   just ask for the "gizmo thingy"!


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