# What exactly do you focus on when shooting a subject?



## NedM (Apr 30, 2014)

I shoot a lot of portraiture and one of the many problems I face is achieving tack sharp focus on my subjects. 

I shoot on manual mode, single point focusing (recompose) and switch on the auto focus on my lens.

When I'm shooting my subject, I always try to focus on the eyes.
Honestly, when looking through my viewfinder the subject looks sharp and I take the picture.
Then when I get home and look at that same photo zoomed in it looks soft and just slightly out of focus.

I don't get it?

This happens a lot to me, either the focusing is slightly behind or in front of my subject. (I usually use my 50mm 1.8 or 1.4)

I tried manual focusing but it yields the dsame results.
I look through my viewfinder, manually focus it, and when I blow the image on my computer screen it's soft.

What am I doing wrong?
What do I focus on when shooting my subjects?

Note I usually shoot in shade on sunny days or in direct sunlight. (Sun is behind subject)


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## NedM (Apr 30, 2014)

The only solution I have found to combat this situation is to switch into live view mode on my 600D and magnify the image then manually focus until sharp.
It works wonders but it's a hassle going in and out of live view mode and recomposing is harder.


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## Scatterbrained (Apr 30, 2014)

A few things to think about.  
Don't focus and recompose.  Use the appropriate AF point and put it right on the closest eye.  If that means shooting a wee bit loose and cropping later so be it.  It's good to leave a bit of room anyway for non native aspect ratios. 
Remember that your AF points need adequate contrast to focus.  If you can't see contrast under the AF point it's likely your camera can't either.  
Remember that non cross type points are sensitive to contrast in one specific direction.   It does no good to put horizontal contrast under a point that is sensitive to vertical contrast.   
 If you're using a fast prime, remember that the focusing screen in your camera can't show accurate DOF at apertures faster than f/2.8.  Just because it looks "in focus" doesn't mean it is.   Which is one more strike against focus/recompose.  
Don't use AI Servo.  Use One Shot.  The instant you hear the confirmation, press the shutter.   
Make sure you're standing and holding the camera correctly to maximize stability.  
Make sure you're not trying to shoot at or near a lenses minimal focus distance, that's just asking for trouble.   

I don't know how much, if any, of this applies to you, but I figured I rattle a few things off just in case.


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## mmaria (Apr 30, 2014)

you got a fine advice here... 

Here's my way, and it doesn't have to be your way.

I always focus and recompose. It's just my way of doing things and I simply can't see myself doing anything differently. Maybe I will one day, but until then, this is the way I'm comfortable with.
That being said, I always have dof and posing in mind when it comes to focusing on people's eyes. There are slight differences in how close are the eyes to the lens, where are you (your camera) standing in relation to them, what focal length... that you always need to keep in mind.


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## NedM (Apr 30, 2014)

mmaria said:


> you got a fine advice here...
> 
> Here's my way, and it doesn't have to be your way.
> 
> ...




I never understood this concept.

What does dof, distance from my subject and the focal length have anything to do with achieving sharp focus?

Where can I learn more about this? 
I know the wider the aperture the more shallow you dof will be but does this mean that the farther back I am away from my subject at a wide aperture the harder it is to achieve sharp focus?


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## curtyoungblood (Apr 30, 2014)

DOF field relates to this because it describes how deep the area of the picture that appears in focus is. If you accidentally focus on the tip of a subject's nose at 1.4, the eyes will appear out of focus, but at f8 they will likely appear in focus.


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## Braineack (Apr 30, 2014)

Show us an example of a photo you took where the focus isn't quite what you expected.

Focus really shouldn't be hard to achieve, but it would be hard for me to achieve while hand-holding the camera, in manual mode, with a live subject.  I could imagine plenty of misses. Are you at least using your camera's focus notifier?

Distance shouldn't matter as well.  This was taken at 200mm and f/3.2:







and the sharpness of that crop:




Zach - Cropped by The Braineack, on Flickr





Personally, I'm not a fan of focus and recompose, because if I'm shooting at a low f-stop, it could mean that when I recompose with teh DOF being so narrow, it could miss my intended focus.  But what I noticed that's leading to, on my D600, are subjects that are oddly framed and I need to crop.  This is due to the very small focus area in regards to the entire frame.


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## paigew (Apr 30, 2014)

I back button focus, toggle and recompose. I will toggle if I can but if not I recompose with the closest point. I also shoot in al servo mode. And I shoot mostly wide open. I personally think al servo mode is the key


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## tirediron (Apr 30, 2014)

NedM said:


> What does dof, distance from my subject and the focal length have anything to do with achieving sharp focus?
> 
> Where can I learn more about this?
> I know the wider the aperture the more shallow you dof will be but does this mean that the farther back I am away from my subject at a wide aperture the harder it is to achieve sharp focus?


Just everything.  The larger the aperture, the longer the focal length of the lens, and/or the less the camera-to-subject the shallower the the depth of field, and the greater the need to be spot-on with your focus.  If your DoF is from 10' to infinity and your subject is at 40', you don't so much have to worry about nailing that near eye, whereas if your DoF is only 12" and the subject is 20' away, you have almost zero margin for error.  Read this tutorial here, and study this calculator here to learn more.


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## runnah (Apr 30, 2014)

I never focus and recompose personally. Might have to do with the 61 focus points my camera has or maybe i just suck at it. We may never really know.

I always focus on the eye(s).


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## paigew (Apr 30, 2014)

runnah said:


> I never focus and recompose personally. Might have to do with the 61 focus points my camera has or maybe i just suck at it. We may never really know.
> 
> I always focus on the eye(s).



I don't have all my points active.


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## runnah (Apr 30, 2014)

paigew said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> > I never focus and recompose personally. Might have to do with the 61 focus points my camera has or maybe i just suck at it. We may never really know.
> ...




Well shame on you!


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## SDreams (Apr 30, 2014)

You mentioned that youre usually outdoors. Do you use a tripod or remote shudder release? Maybe these as well as turning off your lens' VS control would help as well.


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## paigew (Apr 30, 2014)

runnah said:


> paigew said:
> 
> 
> > runnah said:
> ...



faster than scrolling through them all. My subjects are very fast and random with their direction of movement LOL. Toggle to the closest, then recompose.

Plus some points aren't as reliable.


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## runnah (Apr 30, 2014)

paigew said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> > paigew said:
> ...




Do you use the joystick?


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## paigew (Apr 30, 2014)

yes I use "Only cross-type AF points"

I use the joystick for vertical and the dial for horizontal toggling.


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## KelSS90 (Apr 30, 2014)

I use single point focus and single-servo mode on my D3200. It seems to work out for me, but my issue comes when I  am shooting more than one subject. Should I switch into auto area focus... Single point focus somewhere in between to two faces...? I open my aperture up but I still have issues getting everyone's eyes nice and sharp. 


*I considered starting a new thread but feel like this goes along with the discussion here and this particular thread led to my question -- Mods feel free to remove this post if need be!


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## JacaRanda (Apr 30, 2014)

KelSS90 said:


> I use single point focus and single-servo mode on my D3200. It seems to work out for me, but my issue comes when I am shooting more than one subject. Should I switch into auto area focus... Single point focus somewhere in between to two faces...? I open my aperture up but I still have issues getting everyone's eyes nice and sharp.
> 
> 
> *I considered starting a new thread but feel like this goes along with the discussion here and this particular thread led to my question -- Mods feel free to remove this post if need be!



Probably not a good idea since that mode will likely focus on the closest object.  See section 3.3  DSLR Autofocus Modes Explained


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## ronlane (Apr 30, 2014)

KelSS90 said:


> I use single point focus and single-servo mode on my D3200. It seems to work out for me, but my issue comes when I  am shooting more than one subject. Should I switch into auto area focus... Single point focus somewhere in between to two faces...? I open my aperture up but I still have issues getting everyone's eyes nice and sharp.
> 
> 
> *I considered starting a new thread but feel like this goes along with the discussion here and this particular thread led to my question -- Mods feel free to remove this post if need be!



You should pose them on (or close to) the same focal plane. Then focus on one subjects eye and you should be good, if using apertures of 4.5-8.


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## KelSS90 (Apr 30, 2014)

JacaRanda said:


> Probably not a good idea since that mode will likely focus on the closest object.  See section 3.3  DSLR Autofocus Modes Explained



Thanks for that link -- the chart especially made all of the mode combinations nice and clear. 

I've done some reading on this before and still have trouble when the subjects are on different planes (like a 7 year old standing and a 9month old standing - his head just about waist high on the older child). Everything I see says to open the aperture if you are trying to get multiple planes in focus... But doesn't say where to set your focus point.


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## Braineack (Apr 30, 2014)

KelSS90 said:


> Everything I see says to open the aperture if you are trying to get multiple planes in focus... But doesn't say where to set your focus point.


if anything you want to close the aperture, something like f/5.6-8 to ensure all subjects fall within the DOF.  I'd focus first on 7yo, take a picture, then the 6mo old and take another.  Both SHOULD turn out if you chose the aperture correctly so they fall within the DOF, but it depends on the F:R focus ratio, so focusing on both doesn't hurt to help ensure you get a good capture.


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## runnah (Apr 30, 2014)

There is way more to it but if you think of it as the lower the aperture number the shallower DOF will be.


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## KmH (Apr 30, 2014)

You are using an entry-level, consumer grade DSLR that has a phase-detection auto focus module having limited performance. It's not nearly as sophisticated as the AF systems in Canon's more expensive cameras. The AF module is actually from an older model and expert reviews give that AF module low marks.

Though your T3i (US), Kiss X5 (Japan), 600D (everywhere else) has 9 AF points, only the center AF point is a cross-type focus point.
If a person's eyes are in shadow cast by their brows (dark eye sockets/raccoon eyes) there may not be enough light for AF to work well, but the center cross-type point will out-perform the other 8 regular AF points. You may want to use the camera's AF assist light or a reflector get sufficient light into the subjects eye sockets to help AF.
Subjects shot outside often have dark eye sockets.

In Live View, because the main mirror up the 600D can't use the phase-detection AF module and has to rely on the less accurate, and in the 600D slow, contrast-detection AF system.

You apparently have only a partial understanding of what DoF is, how DoF relates to image focus, and how to control DoF to your advantage.
You're not alone. DoF is the most complex technical aspect of doing photography and the way it works is not as immediately intuitive as the exposure triad is.

The more you understand about how your DSLR camera's various subsystems work, the better you are able to get the camera to do what you want done.
Autofocus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Understanding Camera Autofocus
Tutorials - Sharpness
Understanding Depth of Field in Photography


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## Derrel (Apr 30, 2014)

If you are regularly missing focus on portraits, it's time to re-evluate everything you are doing. First off, strat shooting at f/6.3.


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## KelSS90 (Apr 30, 2014)

Thanks guys! That helps with the multiple subject shots. It's not every time, but I'm definitely not consistent enough with it. Time to get out and practice more.


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## NedM (Apr 30, 2014)

Braineack said:


> Show us an example of a photo you took where the focus isn't quite what you expected.
> 
> Focus really shouldn't be hard to achieve, but it would be hard for me to achieve while hand-holding the camera, in manual mode, with a live subject.  I could imagine plenty of misses. Are you at least using your camera's focus notifier?









Here is a shot where I had my single point focus on her eyes, and somehow it focused on her heels instead.
I don't understand how that could be when I clearly had the focusing point on her eyes. (This always happens to me)

I recomposed once I saw the single point notifier blink inside my viewfinder alerting me that the lens has focused.
I shot without a tripod like I usually do, because my subjects are for the most part very still.

If you were me, where would put the focusing point in this image to achieve sharpness?
I know people say you should always find contrast.
Well, what if there is no contrast or not enough to focus?


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## ronlane (Apr 30, 2014)

Are you using the shutter button as the focus button? Did you hold it down to recompose? If you are using the shutter button and not holding it down when you recompose, you are focusing again after you move the camera (I'm sure you know this.)


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## NedM (Apr 30, 2014)

tirediron said:


> Just everything. The larger the aperture, the longer the focal length of the lens, and/or the less the camera-to-subject the shallower the the depth of field, and the greater the need to be spot-on with your focus. If your DoF is from 10' to infinity and your subject is at 40', you don't so much have to worry about nailing that near eye, whereas if your DoF is only 12" and the subject is 20' away, you have almost zero margin for error. Read this tutorial here, and study this calculator here to learn more.




Thanks tirediron, I'll be sure to look into the calculator and try my best to understand what's happening.






SDreams said:


> You mentioned that youre usually outdoors. Do you use a tripod or remote shudder release? Maybe these as well as turning off your lens' VS control would help as well.






No, I handheld my shots as I find carrying a tripod and using it a hassle when shooting my subjects.(I usually shoot at very fast shutter speeds) Also, I don't use VS/IS/VC when shooting as well.




Derrel said:


> If you are regularly missing focus on portraits, it's time to re-evluate everything you are doing. First off, strat shooting at f/6.3.




You're right, I probably need to reevaulate what I'm doing. I'll shoot at a higher apeture next time around and start from there!




KmH said:


> You are using an entry-level, consumer grade DSLR that has a phase-detection auto focus module having limited performance. It's not nearly as sophisticated as the AF systems in Canon's more expensive cameras. The AF module is actually from an older model and expert reviews give that AF module low marks.
> 
> 
> Though your T3i (US), Kiss X5 (Japan), 600D (everywhere else) has 9 AF points, only the center AF point is a cross-type focus point.
> ...






I've been using only the center AF point whenever I went out and shot portraits, so at least I've been doing something right. 


What's the difference between cross-type points and regular points?


Thanks Keith, I'll be sure to do some heavy reading on the articles you referenced here.
DoF is such a complex topic but I'm hoping to have sharp focusing down at least.


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## Braineack (Apr 30, 2014)

what are the camera settings of that shot?  looks like you nailed the focus...on her feet.  You into that sort of thing?

What lens as well?  I know if I would shoot with my 85mm on my D3100 and D5100 with both cross and non-cross focusing points, while using a larger aperture, I would often miss the focus.


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## NedM (Apr 30, 2014)

]





ronlane said:


> Are you using the shutter button as the focus button? Did you hold it down to recompose? If you are using the shutter button and not holding it down when you recompose, you are focusing again after you move the camera (I'm sure you know this.)






Yes, I depress the shutter halfway and when the AF point indicator/notifier blinks, I then recompose and press the shutter all the way.


That could be possible, I could be depressing the shutter whilst recomposing resulting in a missed focused on the subject.




Braineack said:


> what are the camera settings of that shot? looks like you nailed the focus...on her feet. You into that sort of thing?




You know it. Feet fetish ftw.

Canon 600D w/ Canon 50mm 1.4 

Shot at:
ISO 400 (I know, forgot to lower my ISO), f/4 at 1/1600 sec.


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## Braineack (Apr 30, 2014)

I think the recompose in this instance was enough to throw her face out of the DOF window.


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## vintagesnaps (Apr 30, 2014)

I agree, the shoes look sharply in focus and the rest of her isn't - but she's at a slight angle to you. So it looks like there was hardly any depth of field, I wouldn't have the lens so open. Like Derrel said you might need to rethink your process, maybe start with more midrange aperture settings and then try larger apertures. 

What about instead of people just taking some objects out to set up (big teddy bear maybe? or just go shoot some solitary object, a park bench or lamp post) - then stand in the same place and shoot it at different apertures so you can see the difference in the depth of field. Then go try it being up close at different apertures, then do the same thing from a bit farther away, etc. and notice the differences. 

I focus manually, even shooting hockey, I learned that when I was young so it's second nature to me - but I don't think there's necessarily a right way or that the same thing works for everybody; it's a matter of learning how to focus and what works (and what doesn't) and getting in plenty of practice.


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## KmH (Apr 30, 2014)

Cross-type AF points detect both horizontal _and_ vertical edges.

Regular focus points can detect one _or_ the other - but not both.

Some regular AF points are oriented to detect horizontal edges, some regular AF points are oriented to detect vertical edges.


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