# Vintage Black Nikon F with serial 6408997 w/ lenses in metal attache



## TBOTZON (Feb 9, 2018)

I acquired a camera and it looks like it is somewhat rare by looking it up on Ebay and Collectiblend. I want to sell it but it also comes with three lenses, and a holder type of devise for the camera. It is in a very heavy silver attache case. I am not sure that it came that way or it was a set up that someone did after they purchased the camera. Any ideas on how I should go about selling it?


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## jcdeboever (Feb 9, 2018)

Nice. Sell it on here. I am interested in buying it. Go to the buy and sell, upload some detailed pics and what your asking for it.


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## TBOTZON (Feb 9, 2018)

TBOTZON said:


> I acquired a camera and it looks like it is somewhat rare by looking it up on Ebay and Collectiblend. I want to sell it but it also comes with three lenses, and a holder type of devise for the camera. It is in a very heavy silver attache case. I am not sure that it came that way or it was a set up that someone did after they purchased the camera. Any ideas on how I should go about selling it?View attachment 153509


Yikes! That is part of the problem as what to ask since it is not just the camera


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## webestang64 (Feb 9, 2018)

From a employee at a camera store we would only take trade on old film cameras like that and maybe give you $40-75. 
I would say the Body and any Nikon lenses are worth what somebody is willing to pay (I'm guessing that body is worth $100-400 depending on condition). The case and all the other stuff is worthless. I say that because here at my work we get cases of stuff like that all the time for free and all that stuff won't sell on the sales floor. 
All that said I'd sell the lot on here for best offer.


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## Derrel (Feb 9, 2018)

This is an old, black meterless prism Nikon F, what looks to me like a 135mm f/2.8, maybe a 35mm f/2.8, and a newer 50mm, plus an inexpensive flash bracket, a filter, and a couple small accessories; this is _not_ a "really valuable" camera set-up. On the used market, the lenses at retail, if they are what I think they are are worth $40, $49,and $85. The F is not super-valuable, since it is in well-worn condition. As webstang64 mentions, the case is a clunker.


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## TBOTZON (Feb 9, 2018)

This is what I read:

Collectiblend:
*CollectiBlend Average Index 

*
Average Very good Mint
Body only *$580-600* *$700-800* *$1400-1500*
With lens *$1800-1900* *$2400-2600* *$4400-4600*
Estimate value accuracy: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*1959. 35mm film, SLR camera. The first Nikon SLR. 64* s/n black models are rare*. Black bodies with 66* serial numbers are most likely fake. Bodies with early s/n and early features are more valuable. Right now all 64* sales are listed here notwithstanding the features, so estimate value is not correct. Please do your due diligence on the features.

This was the other mention:
*Nikon F Collector's And Buyer's Guide*
The Nikon F is a user-collectible classic par excellence, but it can also be a great investment if you happen to snag a rare early model. As many Nikon aficionados know, the first 1000 or so Fs had cloth shutter curtains before titanium curtains became available, and these are worth at least a few grand even in this era of bargain-basement 35mm SLRs. Other early F identifiers include a self-timer with slanted serrations and sharp edges, a machined film-wind lever with two hollow cavities on its underside, a prism engraved (not silk screened) "Nippon Kogaku," six patent numbers listed on the back, and "Made In Japan" on the back-closing lock, not on the baseplate near the tripod socket. *Other rare Fs to look for are early black bodies with serial numbers beginning with "64.*" 
Read more at The Savvy Consumer’s Guide To Pre-Owned, Collectible, And Vintage Cameras; The Legendary Nikon F: What Makes It The Camera Of The Century? Page 2


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## Derrel (Feb 9, 2018)

TBOTZON said:


> This is what I read:
> 
> Collectiblend:
> *CollectiBlend Average Index
> ...



Read also: "If you're willing to take a gamble it's possible to score a Nikon F, FT, or FTN with a 50mm f/1.4 on eBay for as little as $150-$200, but as the saying
Read more at The Savvy Consumer’s Guide To Pre-Owned, Collectible, And Vintage Cameras; The Legendary Nikon F: What Makes It The Camera Of The Century? Page 2"

The body you have is what's called "a thrasher". it's in crap condition...it's got finish that's worn right thru to "WHITE" metal...makes me think it's not a genuine black F, but that perhaps it had been painted 30 years ago...if it had brassing showing...it would be another story.

ANYBODY telling you an "Average" black F is worth $580 is full of fertilizer. I PASSED a few months back on a NEAR-mint (and I mean nearly mint-mint) black F for $149.

You seem to be under the impression that all old camera stuff is "valuable"; we've seen this here hundreds of times. Condition is huge, and the condition of the body and F-prism and that mounted lens shown is below-average, and what is called UG or BGN, meaning Ugly, or Bargain-level. The 50 and the 135mm lens look fine however, but are not high-dollar lenses, and were at the time of manufacture, 'cheap' lens models, not high-end stuff.

This is not "somewhat rare" stuff. Still...gear is worth whatever somebody is willing to PAY for it, so if you want to, write a great description and put the set up for sale. Depending on the buyer, you might get lucky and get a good sale result!


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## SCraig (Feb 10, 2018)

Old used camera gear is just like any other so-called "Collectable".  It's only valuable if you can find someone willing to pay your price.


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## compur (Feb 10, 2018)

TBOTZON said:


> This is what I read:
> 
> Collectiblend:
> *CollectiBlend Average Index
> ...


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## jcdeboever (Feb 10, 2018)

People want way to much for the Black Nikon F's. I've been watching for a black one with a eye level view finder for over a year. I have still 10 to 15 in my "watching" eBay list, the oldest one is over a year and still listed at a ridiculous price of $300. I watch them because sometimes they list unsold items at deep discounts. Not these though. I think they are the most beautiful looking camera on the planet but I want to use it, not display it. 

I recently picked up a  well used silver one for like $25 bucks that has a wrinkled shutter curtain but shoots fine.


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## Dave Colangelo (Feb 13, 2018)

Black F/FT's take the same pictures as their silver counterparts....

I bought a Cannon AE-1 for $20 at a flea market with 2 lenses then traded it for a MINT Nikon FT with the single K Japanese branding a few months later. You can get most Nikon SLR's for under $200 (usually with a lens) if you are willing to look around. I bought an almost unused minty F3 for ~$150 not all that long ago.

This kit is pretty beat but its worth selling as a kit (people are usually into that). To help with the value we would need more info on the lenses as well as pictures of the glass its self, anything thats been sitting for a while runs the risk of mold etc.

One thing thats interesting is that camera is from the first year of production but based the number you have the 8997 camera made (assuming they started at 0001). So you do NOT have a cloth shutter camera (which would be valuable). The lighting makes it hard to tell if thats white paint showing or brass showing which as @Derrel points out is an important difference.

Based on the wear and tear and the setup you have this camera saw USE and lots of it. It may have even been a reporters or the such which means it most likely needs to be serviced. How are the seals looking? Any Major body damage? Any light leaks?


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## cgw (Feb 14, 2018)

I'm sensing just a bit of wishful thinking about a potential windfall, particularly in light of the OP's farcical valuation range that's feeding it. There's really nothing collectible there given the condition and variety presented. Kits like that sell for more $$$ at prop shops that supply Toronto's film/TV industry than they do at camera stores. "Beater" grade gear usually gets politely refused. But then there's always eBay...


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## Dave442 (Feb 14, 2018)

Thats a camera to take out and use, if it is in working condition. The case was typical for the 60's and 70's. My grandfather had the black Halliburton case with the Nikon FTn, three lenses and flash with custom cut foam. I followed by buying a cheap plastic pistol case and cutting the foam myself for my Minolta. You would fit in back in the day when everyone carried briefcases. 

My grandfather also had the Nikon F Photomic from the early 1960's, but stopped using it when he picked up the FTn in the late 60's.  I suppose if I was a collector I would want the earlier non-metered F - hope you can find someone that needs this to fill out their collection.  

I think the $200 to $400 range is not too bad for a camera like this, especially as the Minolta/Pentax and other similar cameras from the era are all well under $100.  Would be interesting to know if it is worth more.

Also, the first thing I do with an old camera is check if there is film in it. I have bought cameras that had partially exposed rolls of film - if you shot film it would just be natural to check before opening the back of the camera. 

The accessories aren't bad, nobody liked having a flash sitting over their rewind knob so the flash bracket was common for an F model, also the cable release is typical of Nikon making something different and costing more while everyone else used a common thread-in style cable release.


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## compur (Feb 14, 2018)

That's the trouble with black painted cameras. They really show the wear and tear. But, they're gorgeous if you don't use them. 

Back in the day the black versions didn't really cost all that much more than the chrome ones. They were thought to be "more professional" looking but few were sold. The chrome cameras were for tourists and the black ones were for the pros, or so some people thought.  

I used to worry that the black color would make interior temperatures higher which may be more likely to to cause undesirable effects on the film if left in sunlight.


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## Gary A. (Feb 14, 2018)

Back then, black F’s were hard to get. The scarcity of black increased their value, law of supply and demand.  Derrel’s observations and comments seem accurate.  The camera may have been painted as it appears to be slivering instead of brassing.


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## TBOTZON (Feb 18, 2018)

I got the camera a few years ago thinking the lenses would be interchangeable with my camera but they were not.  The man that sold it to me said he got it from someone in Hollywood who used it for business and it was serviced regularly. He said he used it very little after he bought it. I do have a couple old service records from the 70 & 80s not sure if that even matters. Now I am cleaning out the house and debating on what to do with this thing  As everyone noticed it was used a lot. Timer and everything we played with seem to work fine.
We do not know how to tell if there are light leaks but the back fits on tightly. It is definitely brassing on the front


Dave Colangelo said:


> Black F/FT's take the same pictures as their silver counterparts....
> 
> I bought a Cannon AE-1 for $20 at a flea market with 2 lenses then traded it for a MINT Nikon FT with the single K Japanese branding a few months later. You can get most Nikon SLR's for under $200 (usually with a lens) if you are willing to look around. I bought an almost unused minty F3 for ~$150 not all that long ago.
> 
> ...



the photo made the worn areas look white. No major body damage. We can see no molding on the lenses. The lenses that came with it was a Nikkor 50mm 1:2 a Nikkor-Q Auto 1:2.8 f=135 besides the one on the camera. I am not sure if this is the type of pictures you need of the glass?


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## Dave Colangelo (Feb 18, 2018)

It does appear you have a genuine black body which increases the value _slightly _depending on who you ask but ultimately not much. The lenses look clean which is always a good thing but again they are nothing super special.  You have a 35mm and a 50mm which are the standards for the set and unfortunately *not* the tick mark lenses. The old service receipts are somewhat irrelevant as they are to old to reflect current quality. Light leaks can only really be tested for by running a roll of film through it. Frankly you can replace the foam seals on these cameras at home for <$20 and I do it generally when ever I obtain one. If the seals are shot the foam has a tendency to fall apart to the touch. If you can find someone local with a shutter timer (or a shop willing to check it) you can see if the body needs an over haul. If everything is working (more or less) I'd say go out and use the thing, have some fun.


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## Dave442 (Feb 18, 2018)

These days you can mount pre-AI lenses on any of the D3000 and D5000 series (no metering) or the Df.  The 35mm, 50mm and 135mm are what everyone had so nothing unexpected there. 

I really liked the focus ring style like on that on your 35mm lens. The 135mm f/2.8 was a good lens and the one I used had a built-in lens hood, overall a nice solid feel. Usually a 2x TC was in the bag to use with this lens, not sure if that is the black item. 

I think this is best to sell as a kit just so you can do one sale.  I would say to keep it only if it has sentimental value (doesn't sound like it) or you plan to use it (with the 35mm mounted and B&W it is a fun camera). Most of my SLR bodies had hinged backs, the Nikon F back comes all the way off and I was told to just stick it under my arm while walking and changing a roll of film.


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## Derrel (Feb 18, 2018)

F's have rather hard, wool felt seals, and they typically last much,much,much longer than soft, foam seals do. The 50mm f/2 is a significantly later production lens. The 3.5 cm f/2.8 and the 135mm f/2.8 were common prime lenses for the era, nothing special, but decent optics. I dunno...see if somebody will buy it off of e-Bay, perhaps. But do not expect anywhere near what that one collectibles page indicated.


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## vin88 (Feb 20, 2018)

Gary A. said:


> Back then, black F’s were hard to get. The scarcity of black increased their value, law of supply and demand.  Derrel’s observations and comments seem accurate.  The camera may have been painted as it appears to be slivering instead of brassing.


        I like "black over brass" just because it's not chrome.  I  have  a couple  black   cameras --   35 mm.  vin


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## minicoop1985 (Mar 12, 2018)

Oooh purty. That's quite the score. Why not give it a quick film test? See what it's capable of?

Sent from my [device_name] using ThePhotoForum.com mobile app


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## TBOTZON (Mar 12, 2018)

minicoop1985 said:


> Oooh purty. That's quite the score. Why not give it a quick film test? See what it's capable of?
> 
> Sent from my [device_name] using ThePhotoForum.com mobile app


I will just take the suggestions above and sell it as a kit for whatever I can get. Cleaning out the closets and way too much stuff!


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## minicoop1985 (Mar 12, 2018)

TBOTZON said:


> minicoop1985 said:
> 
> 
> > Oooh purty. That's quite the score. Why not give it a quick film test? See what it's capable of?
> ...


Ah. That makes sense. I should probably be the last person to talk... I buy and sell cameras as a hobby.

Sent from my [device_name] using ThePhotoForum.com mobile app


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## Braineack (Mar 12, 2018)

look at "sold" ebay listings.  like this: NIKON F BLACK BODY.. NIKON  FG.. NIKKORMAT  FT 3  | eBay

this was an auction for: Nikon F Black, FG, and FT3 bodies: $100.


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## TBOTZON (Apr 2, 2018)

I am in total shock! It sold for $3050.00


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## jcdeboever (Apr 2, 2018)

TBOTZON said:


> I am in total shock! It sold for $3050.00


Where? Link?


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## TBOTZON (Apr 2, 2018)

jcdeboever said:


> TBOTZON said:
> 
> 
> > I am in total shock! It sold for $3050.00
> ...


Ebay: RARE Nippon Kogaku Nikon F Eye Level in Metal Case with Accessories #6408997   | eBay


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## jcdeboever (Apr 2, 2018)

TBOTZON said:


> jcdeboever said:
> 
> 
> > TBOTZON said:
> ...


Oh, I remember now. Congrats. Must be pretty rare.


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## Dave442 (Apr 2, 2018)

Amazing.


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## Derrel (Apr 2, 2018)

TBOTZON said:


> jcdeboever said:
> 
> 
> > TBOTZON said:
> ...





Dave442 said:


> Amazing.



Indeed, amazing. In eight seconds, two idiots bid wildly against a third dim bulb, and one of them ended up in a situation where he'll soon realize he was had; He or She bought an apprx. $500 value kit and payed over $3,000 for it!  It's sad because the bids for what this actually _is_ were pretty much in line with the actual value for the majority of the auction. But, as one can see, there were some automated bids that were "sniped" in at the last eight seconds. A testament to deceptive eBay listings. Just* add the word "rare"* to some old lenses and a thrasher body, and somebody with too much money will accept that it must be "rare".





Boy...will that buyer ever be pissed when he tries to flip this "rare" camera and three commonplace, low-end F-mount lenses.

Still, OP, you did yourself a favor by doing a fine job of writing a description that convinced a couple people into bidding way,way,way more than this set was actually worth.They probably have highly-payed jobs and plenty of disposable income.


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## Derrel (Apr 2, 2018)

I see you used the word "Apollo" in your e-Bay listing, and called the camera "rare".

According to CameraQuest, Nikon F Apollo    , there's no known association with the Apollo space program, and Mr. Gandy figures the so-called Apollo F production number was approximately ,"*116,000 cameras*". Not exactly "rare" as cameras go...

Only problem is..this camera does NOT have a plastic-tipped film advance..and the "black" F-prism shows chrome underneath,indicating it's not originally black, but was a chrome F-prism that has been painted...

You called this an F Apollo....but...well...it's not. I mean, jeeze...a painted, chromed F-prism? No plastic tip on the advance lever? Was the self-time lever plastic-tipped? because if it's not, and the film advance lever is not plastic tipped, this is not an "Apollo" F...

But one ought not be surprised that a couple people got excited after reading the word "Apollo" in your listing, and took the bait. As Gandy wrote: "* Some collectors pay big premiums for the "Apollo," usually out of proportion to their abundance. The only ones worth  premiums are the last five thousand or so, because they were the last F's.  Officially the last F was number 7451052, but later cameras which appear to be original have been found."
*


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## tirediron (Apr 2, 2018)

Derrel said:


> I see you used the word "Apollo" in your e-Bay listing, and called the camera "rare".
> 
> According to CameraQuest, Nikon F Apollo    , there's no known association with the Apollo space program, and Mr. Gandy figures the so-called Apollo F production number was approximately ,"*116,000 cameras*". Not exactly "rare" as cameras go...
> 
> ...


Caveat emptor...


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## Derrel (Apr 3, 2018)

Caveat emptor...

...indeed....


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## TBOTZON (Apr 3, 2018)

Derrel said:


> I see you used the word "Apollo" in your e-Bay listing, and called the camera "rare".
> 
> According to CameraQuest, Nikon F Apollo    , there's no known association with the Apollo space program, and Mr. Gandy figures the so-called Apollo F production number was approximately ,"*116,000 cameras*". Not exactly "rare" as cameras go...
> 
> ...



Wow! Nice! You bash me and everyone that bid on the camera. You assume that I was purposely trying to miss lead to make my sale. I was not and I try hard to be honest and fair. The F prism absolutely was NOT painted it had a small amount of brassing.  The only chrome was underneath as it was this prism:
Nikon F 2nd version "Black" NIPPON KOGAKU JAPAN Plain Prism  #2  | eBay

I made the mistake of thinking any black F was called Apollo black so I used that term and now I realize that was stupid on my part - thank you for enlightening me. I had no idea that it was only the later models with plastic parts that were considered Apollos. If people were swayed by the term "Rare Apollo" there would be a lot of cameras selling right now as many are listed that way. Fortunately, my buyer was wanting it because of the serial number and I am sure he was aware it was not an Apollo. He had offered $400 and someone else had made an offer too the minute it went up for auction.  I was getting bids so I just thought I would let it run the course. After he won he sent me this message. 

Well you did pretty well  

So here’s the story in case you haven’t figured it out yet.

The original Nikon F is heavily collected. The most valuable Nikon F cameras are the ones fr 1959 w/ serial numbers 640xxxx (where xxxx are other digits). They were the ones made in the first year of production. Because they were so popular for use by professionals there aren’t tons of those early ones just floating around.

The majority of those 1959 models were in chrome because chrome was cool. They made a relatively small number of black ones. So black are usually worth twice as much ore more than chrome.

This one is interesting because the self-timer was repaired and replaced with the one from the very end of production. That would normally be a bummer but 640xxxx are so rare AND you have the receipt from a legit repair so not so bad for some collectors.

There’s been a lot of interest lately in 640xxxx nikons so not surprising there were a couple of bidders 

Definitely an antique road show moment. Nikon F Black 64https://www.cameraquest.com/nfbl64.htm

the rest of the kit is fine, but not really worth more than about $250 total at most believe it or not!

Enjoy the windfall!

I doubt you agree with him but to each his own.


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## compur (Apr 3, 2018)

Gee, I should list my Apollo Barbie Polaroid One-Small-Step camera on eBay.


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