# D5 Rumors - 4K, 15fps, native ISO 100k



## Solarflare (Jun 23, 2015)

The Nikon D5 is rumored to have a native high ISO of 102 400 and 4k video Nikon Rumors


> New 20MP FX sensor
> 4k video
> 173 autofocus points
> Native high ISO of 102,400
> ...


 So its 4k, 15fps, native ISO 100k ? Now thats not a too shabby upgrade. I fail to get the point of 173 AF points, but whatever. And 20 Megapixels, I guess that was just bound to happen.


----------



## nerwin (Jun 23, 2015)

I heard it might be the first DSLR to have ISO over a million. Thats a bit insane.


----------



## HaveCameraWillTravel (Jun 23, 2015)

And cue the people whining about the missing mythical D400 in 3...2...1....


----------



## ronlane (Jun 23, 2015)

HaveCameraWillTravel said:


> And cue the people whining about the missing mythical D400 in 3...2...1....



What??? No D400??? WTH???? Wait, what's a D400???? lol 

I'd have to see that 173 focus points. How many cross type? Seems like about 75-100 too many, but that's my opinion.


----------



## goodguy (Jun 23, 2015)

Assuming all is true then what I think is.............

1.Pro camera 
2.Pro price
3.Pro specs

Its not for hobbyists like most of us here, even if money wasn't a problem (which it is) then I wouldn't want or need it.
But if I was a pro wildlife/sports  photographer then absolutely I would want it.


----------



## Derrel (Jun 23, 2015)

A couple nights ago, I watched well-known videographer Phillip Bloom's review on the Sony A7s, and its ultra-high ISO capabilities...shooting at Brighton Pier after dark, the Sony at ISO 80,000 easily turned "night into day"...and looked pretty good doing so. The video footage he said could easily be graded up or down...the 50,000 and 80,000 ISO stuff looked really quite good. For people shooting video, these higher ISO settings, as he said, allow you to shoot at high ISO settings at f/stops that give useful, workable depth of field on a full-frame camera. I have a feeling that if the D5 shoots 4k video, they will of course end up needing to discard a lot of the outer image pixels, and that the 4k frame will be a bit smaller than FX, and will be an available optional in-camera crop/aspect ratio choice, of the type Nikon has been outfitting its pro cameras since the D2x appeared in late 2004.


----------



## astroNikon (Jun 23, 2015)

can I whine about Nikon limiting it to only 15 fps?  or only 20mp ?
or having a Pro price instead of a d3x00 price ?


----------



## astroNikon (Jun 23, 2015)

Derrel said:


> A couple nights ago, I watched well-known videographer Phillip Bloom's review on the Sony A7s, and its ultra-high ISO capabilities...shooting at Brighton Pier after dark, the Sony at ISO 80,000 easily turned "night into day"...and looked pretty good doing so. The video footage he said could easily be graded up or down...the 50,000 and 80,000 ISO stuff looked really quite good. For people shooting video, these higher ISO settings, as he said, allow you to shoot at high ISO settings at f/stops that give useful, workable depth of field on a full-frame camera. I have a feeling that if the D5 shoots 4k video, they will of course end up needing to discard a lot of the outer image pixels, and that the 4k frame will be a bit smaller than FX, and will be an available optional in-camera crop/aspect ratio choice, of the type Nikon has been outfitting its pro cameras since the D2x appeared in late 2004.


Didn't I read someplace that Nikon has made a full featured converter for Sony cameras to use Nikon lenses ?


----------



## ronlane (Jun 23, 2015)

astroNikon said:


> can I whine about Nikon limiting it to only 15 fps?  or only 20mp ?
> or having a Pro price instead of a d3x00 price ?



Yes you can. With Canon putting 10 fps on the 7D mk II, I think that they should start putting at least 10 fps on all cameras, and the really high end could be like 15-20 fps. That's not too much to ask, huh Canon/Nikon???????


----------



## Solarflare (Jun 25, 2015)

astroNikon said:


> Didn't I read someplace that Nikon has made a full featured converter for Sony cameras to use Nikon lenses ?


 No, Nikon themselves of course offers no such thing. Why would they ? They want you to buy Nikon cameras and Nikon lenses.

The company that wants to offer a Nikon F to Sony FE adapter with AF is Metabones. They already offer a Canon EF to Sony FE adapter with AF.





ronlane said:


> Yes you can. With Canon putting 10 fps on the 7D mk II, I think that they should start putting at least 10 fps on all cameras, and the really high end could be like 15-20 fps. That's not too much to ask, huh Canon/Nikon???????


 Well, considering they have to move the mirror up and down 20 times per second for that, yes thats is INDEED a LOT to ask. So much flapping around should create a good challenge to compensate this 

They probably should just offer 60 fps in lifeview mode and be done with it. Also need to license dualpixel technology from Canon and give the camera a lot of computing power (and the sensor speed) so they can autofocus well in lifeview. Oh and lifeview mode will activate an EVF too.


----------



## Roger3006 (Jun 25, 2015)

Putting thing in perspective, 20/fps is about twice the rate of fire as an M16. This old film guy could care less. If my Hasselblad would have fired that fast I would have been changing backs in about a half a second. Kodak would have loved that.   I just could not wind and fire that quick.

Sounds like it will be a fantastic camera. I shot a lot of ducks, deer, and many other critters with ASA 400.   When I see the incredible low light performance in cameras I wonder what the high end night vision equipment, we do not know about, must be like. I just thought my Gen 3 was good.

Times have changed.

Roger


----------



## Bebulamar (Jun 27, 2015)

Too high native ISO is a very bad thing. You can boost ISO but if you reduce ISO you will hurt quality a lot more. I don't think you can reduce ISO by more than 2 stops without seriously hurt quality.


----------



## jaomul (Jun 27, 2015)

@ 15 fps with a shutter rating of 400,000 you could in theory reach your shutter expectancy in 7.5 hrs (useless fact)


----------



## Solarflare (Jun 30, 2015)

No you cant - because all these images have to be written to the card, too - and once the buffer size is hit, the fps will slow down very substantly.

Also of course the main reason why shutters have a count is dirt entering the camera, setting on the parts of the shutter, making the stress on the shutter uneven thus and wearing it down. If you never change the lens, and your shutter thus can stay perfectly dirt free, the shutter expectancy goes up a lot.


----------



## Braineack (Jun 30, 2015)

Bebulamar said:


> Too high native ISO is a very bad thing. You can boost ISO but if you reduce ISO you will hurt quality a lot more. I don't think you can reduce ISO by more than 2 stops without seriously hurt quality.



???  I'd rather have 102,400 ISO native than extended.

your statement is very confusing, you're saying too high is bad, then talk about low ISO.


----------



## runnah (Jun 30, 2015)

I do believe the bell and whistle factories will be working overtime to keep up with these "specs".


----------



## runnah (Jun 30, 2015)

Derrel said:


> * these higher ISO settings, as he said, allow you to shoot at high ISO settings at f/stops that give useful, workable depth of field on a full-frame camera.*



Yup, they day-to-night thing is a bit gimicky but being able to shoot video at f/8 in a dim room is a life saver. Trying to keep a subject in focus at 2.0 and below is a nightmare.

I rented the a7s and shot a ton of video with it and liked it as a video only option. The photo side of things is where it really falls flat. You really notice the 12mp.


----------



## jaomul (Jun 30, 2015)

You could probably do it with a massive card and small jpeg basics. But in reality maybe not


----------



## Solarflare (Jul 1, 2015)

Hmmmmmm.

Well if you want to have a card that holds 400,000 pictures, obviously you need an external disk. Assuming that the D5 has USB3 (max 625 MB/s) and supports using an external disk instead of a memory card, it might actually be doable. Its 20 Megapixel at 14 Bit per Pixel, so thats about 35 Megabyte raw pixeldata, with compression maybe 20 Megabyte, and times 15 is approx 300 Megabyte, so even RAW is possible. You'll also need a disk that can hold 8 Terabyte.


----------



## Bebulamar (Jul 1, 2015)

Braineack said:


> Bebulamar said:
> 
> 
> > Too high native ISO is a very bad thing. You can boost ISO but if you reduce ISO you will hurt quality a lot more. I don't think you can reduce ISO by more than 2 stops without seriously hurt quality.
> ...



Native ISO should be around ISO100 or 200 to be useful. With high native ISO you can only shoot at high ISO and can not lower the ISO. Most camera can only lower the ISO 1 stop below native before quality is becoming a problem. If you have native ISO of 400,000 do you shoot at 400,000 all the time? I don't think even most of time.


----------



## Braineack (Jul 2, 2015)

Bebulamar said:


> Braineack said:
> 
> 
> > Bebulamar said:
> ...



We're talking about the native _*high -- or the highest ISO*_ in which the camera amplifies the analog gain, rather than using digital exposure compensation.

You're talking about the native base iso -- or the iso level determined to be the highest signal-to-noise.  In the case of the D810 it's ISO 64 (IIRC that's the best on the market), with a native _range_ of 64 - 12,800.

This D5 is rumored to shoot natively (camera amplifies the signal gain) from XYZ all the way up to 102,400 ISO. 

For the D810 to do this, you would have to take a shot at 12,800 ISO, then apply +3EV exposure push on the image after it's been recorded.  Or you could shoot at 51,200 extended and add +1EV exposure, ultimately resulting in the same final image because all three stops of light were added after the image was recorded.  The SNR here will be incredibly low.


----------



## Bebulamar (Jul 3, 2015)

There is only one single native ISO rating for any given sensor.


----------



## Braineack (Jul 4, 2015)

Bebulamar said:


> There is only one single native ISO rating for any given sensor.



If you define native as only the value with the best SNR, then sure.

However most of us define native as being the entire ISO range where camera is amplifying the signal to the sensor, in camera -- or naively.
The ISO with the highest ISO would then be referred to as the Base ISO.
Anything outside that range and done in software processing after the image has been captured is extended/expanded.

If you understand what the definition of the word native means, then this makes most sense.

It's semantics at this point -- You know _damn right_ they weren't suggesting that 102,400 was the native/base/best iso rating, but the highest iso the point of analog amplification.


----------



## PaulWog (Jul 4, 2015)

This would have to be a major leap for a native ISO of 102,400 (if it's just as good as the rated 12800 on the D4s, D750, DF). Basically 3 stops of performance over the best performing Nikon full frame DSLR's currently. That would be nuts.

Is there anything truly supporting the rumor about the ISO performance?


----------



## Solarflare (Jul 7, 2015)

Bebulamar said:


> There is only one single native ISO rating for any given sensor.


 A native ISO is an ISO the sensor gives you without any digital trickery after the deal. There are only very few sensors without an amplifier before the A/D converter.

What you talk about is base ISO, of which of course there is indeed only one.





PaulWog said:


> This would have to be a major leap for a native ISO of 102,400 (if it's just as good as the rated 12800 on the D4s, D750, DF). Basically 3 stops of performance over the best performing Nikon full frame DSLR's currently. That would be nuts.


 No such thing.

The Sony A7s for example has native 100k, and its no different than an ordinary, say D600 sensor, up to about ISO 6400.

After that though it keeps up a lot longer.

If you expect substantly higher performance on lower ISOs then you'll be disappointed.


----------



## Braineack (Jul 7, 2015)

I'm assuming the performance at 100 iso will be about ~15EV.


----------

