# The have and the have nots!



## Hunter500 (Aug 29, 2016)

The industry in Los Angeles has become so brutal. I have worked with designers Agencies, magazines, showrooms, runway, stylist, and they have no budget when it comes to working your ass off.
Even when they have a budget, they just abuse the system. I would think after developing relationships with agencies and managers they would throw you a few crumbs. But they only act like corporations, don't care about the community, we are slaves to the industry,and the photographer is the last person they want to pay. Its unmoderated, and anything goes. I have given almost 10 years, and after you develop a relationship, they just turn and burn, to save a buck!


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## KmH (Aug 29, 2016)

Welcome to 2016, and it's not just in L.A.


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## tirediron (Aug 29, 2016)

Hence the reason I work almost exclusively in retail now.  I would love to work on big-budget productions, but who needs that?


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## Hunter500 (Aug 29, 2016)

It's really hard to deal with. I'm glad I didn't go to an exspensive photography school, but have a good education. I think the BBB is also bought out here, they seem to do nothing. I hate seeing the iPhone billboards everywhere too, its just a slap in the face. I don't know if I should even lower my rates, because its so degrading! I get ridiculous absurb offers, and I did go down some, but im not an intern, and its really exausting to compete with so many lower rate photographers. The last 2 years have been a struggle with just making ends meet. This industry has made photography free, while the agents, models and managers get all the money! Its just instagram too, and followers. The last 5 models have been beyond degrading and hustle, lie and cheat, beyond anything I have ever dealt with. I also get so much harrassment from other photographers, trying to destroy the competition. Its Getting that brutal for work.


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## 480sparky (Aug 29, 2016)

Another reason I don't do commission work.


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## tirediron (Aug 29, 2016)

Hunter500 said:


> It's really hard to deal with. I'm glad I didn't go to an exspensive photography school, but have a good education. I think the BBB is also bought out here, they seem to do nothing. I hate seeing the iPhone billboards everywhere too, its just a slap in the face. I don't know if I should even lower my rates, because its so degrading! I get ridiculous absurb offers, and I did go down some, but im not an intern, and its really exausting to compete with so many lower rate photographers. The last 2 years have been a struggle with just making ends meet. This industry has made photography free, while the agents, models and managers get all the money! Its just instagram too, and followers. The last 5 models have been beyond degrading and hustle, lie and cheat, beyond anything I have ever dealt with. I also get so much harrassment from other photographers, trying to destroy the competition. Its Getting that brutal for work.


I can sympathize...


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## Hunter500 (Aug 29, 2016)

Same thing happened to block buster. Is. Thats whats happening?


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## Gary A. (Aug 29, 2016)

Just like Craig's List has torpedoed newspapers ... The elimination of the darkroom destroyed professional photography.

Sorry man.


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## Hunter500 (Aug 29, 2016)

Well instagram has made a huge segway twards photography, although it is what it is. L.A. fashion week has changed drastically with buying photography passes. And having 100s of new photographers climb all over each other too shoot for free. But very few sell pictures online at PRphotos, its mainly the same few professionals. Then every audience member is waving their cell phone, ipad, ex so there's no need to pay anyone to take photos at fashion week. Everyone is so cost effective! La fashion week is fun, but it doesn't pay, and many models get stiffed, besides all the bait and switching Going back and forth. Then every model you shoot wants free pictures x 150. It's really like no one stands up too it. They completely are ass backwards, and saturate the industry. Its just free, or next! I have shot over 130 designers for 5 years. I got no respect, just. Your so privlidged to be working for us for free, im all about paying your dues, its just.. All they do is push you aside now because were dime a dozen.


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## Gary A. (Aug 29, 2016)

You need to find a niche ... or a different genre ... Like commercial/studio/wedding work. I have a friend in Pasadena who is booked solid at $15,000 to $20,000 per wedding, on weekdays he shoots ads and studio stuff.


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## Hunter500 (Aug 30, 2016)

I agree. I do mostly fashion, but did some weddings, although I guess it depends on the cliente. Pasadena has a lot of money too. Last wedding wouldn't take my offer, and it was reasonable, but it seems odd with the random people contacting me, over and over and degrading me with absurd request, something is behind it. Either other photographers trying to cut out the competition. I think also Some model agencies also plays dirty, they had connections too many models giving me a terrible time. I mean harrassment, fake bookings, ex. Besides managers, just being rude, and ostentatious about waisting my time and canceling last minute over and over. I think photo agencies also are stooping low to increase revenue, and cut out the competition by harrassment. I would never stoop that low, I think each photographer has a unique style, and your portfolio should determine how much work you done. But slander and lies are not gonna make you a better photographer. I can't even imagine doing something like that. I know many clients are difficult sometimes. Its been hard to determine a price when some people are appalled at such a whopping huge amount, to take from their drinking money. Then others have a budget and squeeze the life out of a nickel! Its been apparent i'm under attack through social media, FB, text, I think people don't like anybody to be better then them. I personally love all photographers, as long as its good and has a style, elements of design. Ex... Its a very different game from 10 years ago, I'll have to try stock photography, im sure its a money maker, lol


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## gsgary (Aug 30, 2016)

I think you would be better off taking photography more seriously and treat it as a hobby


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## HughGuessWho (Aug 30, 2016)

Hunter500 said:


> I think the BBB is also bought out here, they seem to do nothing.


The BBB is "bought out" everywhere. Join their organization and pay a fee and you will get 5 stars, regardless of how poor your practice is or how many complaints have been logged against you.


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## TheLibrarian (Aug 30, 2016)

Not to stir up controversy and 'm not trying to make a living at photography but I had a thought this morning. Compare it to writers, people complain about the low cost of entry today but what does a writer need, a type writer maybe computer today and thats it. I think writers recognize that any fool can write their abc's and their name but the craft of a good book is much more difficult and I think writers recognize this and even still there is plenty of crap out there. Maybe the problem for photographers is that any fool can point and shoot and get a decent image, take enough and you're bound to nd up with a few really cool or nice ones over the years without trying or knowing. Further still compared to most peoples personal photos it's not the artistic image that invokes an emotional reaction but the memory behind that personal experience so for weddings, senior photos and many of these things do they think they really need a fancy photographer. Maybe the practice is quickly becoming more art or we want it to be art when it's really a product... idk. Self publishing books or photos is more work than many imagine and 1) is competing with the massive corporations and 2) requires more than printing a bunch of copies, you need 20k a month ad budget. Arguing with the guy who writes some get laid book, who took the time to argue with us on his facebook ad, anyway. He's selling a crap book for $150 (there's plenty of legitimate dating books available for $20) but he's got the ad budget and a whole machine set up to sell this one piece of junk. You want to work for someone else as an artist there is a big line and lots of competition. Half of them are somebodies nephew and going to produce a horrible movie, you'll gouge your eyes out and lament believing the hype and having gone to it but it got made and sold. Not sure what the point of the rant is. Make money if you can but dont count on it. With great risk comes great reward but also almost certain death for the vast majority.

*edit-Dig this if you will... guy spends 20k a month on sales/ sales force. OK got it, do math. He needs to sell 133 of $150 books to break even for the month. Thats only 5 books a day. I can hire how many people for 20k per month (more math) regardless how many it's more than 5 who i can stand on a street corner and each one has to sell 1 a day which doesn't sound bad even though but it is a $150 piece of garbage they have to sell. I can likely hire 20 at $250 a week and they only need to make a sale once every 4 days. That's how you do it. Just need a product. Think about some kind of sales force getting you wedding gigs or peer to peer teen sales getting you senior portraits.


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## Hunter500 (Aug 30, 2016)

I do take it seriously, A hobby only makes everything TF and that's the problem. I did lots of TF, but then its just making it free, why should I shoot for free, when people are using photographs to make them money. I only would do 1 or 2 TF shoots a month of solo models, and then people started telling everybody I only shoot for free, now on social media, everyone just talks about TF this TF that, TF TF TF! !! So now I don't do any TF for now. Its not a hobby, it was a career. Everyone has been so degrading on price and harassment, I closed all social media.  Its like a bunch of animals, trying to hustle ever henny penny out of me! I don't understand it! I'm broke, I'm moving, its been bullying and harassment for the last few years!!


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## table1349 (Aug 30, 2016)

Hunter500 said:


> I do take it seriously, A hobby only makes everything TF and that's the problem. I did lots of TF, but then its just making it free, why should I shoot for free, when people are using photographs to make them money. I only would do 1 or 2 TF shoots a month of solo models, and then people started telling everybody I only shoot for free, now on social media, everyone just talks about TF this TF that, TF TF TF! !! So now I don't do any TF for now. Its not a hobby, it was a career. Everyone has been so degrading on price and harassment, I closed all social media.  Its like a bunch of animals, trying to hustle ever henny penny out of me! I don't understand it! I'm broke, I'm moving, its been bullying and harassment for the last few years!!



Welcome to the modern American way.  It's all about how much one can get for as little as possible.


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## EIngerson (Aug 30, 2016)

Absolutely why I do not get into the "business". I shot for a while feeling it out and it became so mundane justifying everything. I just shoot what I want to shoot and I'm happy that way. I just don't want the fun to be removed from it.


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## dennybeall (Aug 30, 2016)

Now we know how the Buggy Whip makers felt when those dang automobiles came around..........


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## Hunter500 (Aug 30, 2016)

gryphonslair99 said:


> Hunter500 said:
> 
> 
> > I do take it seriously, A hobby only makes everything TF and that's the problem. I did lots of TF, but then its just making it free, why should I shoot for free, when people are using photographs to make them money. I only would do 1 or 2 TF shoots a month of solo models, and then people started telling everybody I only shoot for free, now on social media, everyone just talks about TF this TF that, TF TF TF! !! So now I don't do any TF for now. Its not a hobby, it was a career. Everyone has been so degrading on price and harassment, I closed all social media.  Its like a bunch of animals, trying to hustle ever henny penny out of me! I don't understand it! I'm broke, I'm moving, its been bullying and harassment for the last few years!!
> ...



Yes, everyone wants to squeeze the life out of a nickel!


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## gsgary (Aug 31, 2016)

Hunter500 said:


> I do take it seriously, A hobby only makes everything TF and that's the problem. I did lots of TF, but then its just making it free, why should I shoot for free, when people are using photographs to make them money. I only would do 1 or 2 TF shoots a month of solo models, and then people started telling everybody I only shoot for free, now on social media, everyone just talks about TF this TF that, TF TF TF! !! So now I don't do any TF for now. Its not a hobby, it was a career. Everyone has been so degrading on price and harassment, I closed all social media.  Its like a bunch of animals, trying to hustle ever henny penny out of me! I don't understand it! I'm broke, I'm moving, its been bullying and harassment for the last few years!!


If I was you I would get a job that pays and you enjoy because it doesn't sound like you enjoy photography 

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk


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## Hunter500 (Aug 31, 2016)

I love photography, its just an issue when people with money want it for free. Like a model will say I have no money, im so broke, then show up with 1000 dollars worth of new clothes! I didn't have an issue helping broke models out by shooting them, its just a gift, and when people can't be honest, it's an issue. There are other photographers too, that can't just be honest but go out of their way to cause havik and harrassment. for years now! Or to destroy my reputation. I mind my own business! I use to have a great time, until all this harrassment, and constant degrading.


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## table1349 (Aug 31, 2016)

Los Angeles and Hollywood have always been cut throat markets.  The difference now is that the knives are digital and much sharper.


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