# I JUST CAN'T NAIL MY FOCUS!  I'M SO FRUSTRATED!



## AMOMENT (Oct 22, 2011)

I'm just not nailing my focusing! GRR! I mostly shoot manual(when I mean manual, I mean Manual priority but auto-focus) with my 50mm f/1.8 lens (my only other lens but I love it so far) I have been advised to shoot totally automatic because cameras now today are so good at it, we should let them do their job, right? But, yet some shoot manual, adjusting the focus themselves for every shot and nail the focus.  I stink at this. There are so many variables it seems like. Okay, so in your opinion (fellow photogs) what settings would you use for basic portraits? (mostly where the subject is changing positions frequently but not "in motion" photos.) Auto-area mode: single point,dynamic, auto, 3d? Focus mode: AF-A, Af-S (single) Af-C (continuous) , of MF? Metering: Matrix, center weighted, or spot? I have 11 auto focus points. Which ones would you choose? Normally I choose a center focal point. If I am shooting a portrait I tend to like to turn the camera vertical and then opt for a central top focal point. For a while I was targeting my point in the middle of my subjects eyes but now I know to at least hit one eye. This has become difficlut because my typical subject is my two year old and unwilling daughter. I had some really great WIDE OPEN f/1.8 but in focus shots of my daughter from about 2-3 feet away.  (a while back) I tend to bump up my ap. to increase my DOF and avoid focusing errors. 
Any suggestions? I know all of this is relative but perhaps you can give me an idea. It seems, as in most arts, that everyone has a contradicting opinion. 
BTW, P.S. The following photos were of metryng some type of art deco' style that a friend of mine enhances in PSE. Not really my style, but gave it a whirl. You can still see the focusing flaws as well as many others. Just know that in alot of these, the contrast and saturation was tampered with in order to experiment with this affect.


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## AMOMENT (Oct 22, 2011)

MY YOUNGEST AND U HAPPY DAUGHTER AT THE TIME.  
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## rgregory1965 (Oct 22, 2011)

Try not shooting wide open...stop back 2 or 3 stops and check the pics.....


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## AMOMENT (Oct 22, 2011)

a few more........

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ORIGINALS TO FOLLOW.  I know they are AWFUL but perhaps all you seasoned experts can help!  I was shooting in manual priority with an f-stop of about 2  -  5.6  and a shutter of at least 1/200 and ISO of 200-800 during evening hours.  My area focus type was wither automatic, dynamic, or single.  My autofocus was on continuous and my auto focal point ( 1 out of 11 points) was either completely centered or a top central point.)  My metering was either Matrix or spot.


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## 480sparky (Oct 22, 2011)

x2.  You're shooting with your lenses at max. aperture.  Dial them down 2-3 stops and get yerseff some DOF.


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## AMOMENT (Oct 22, 2011)

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## 480sparky (Oct 22, 2011)

AMOMENT said:


> .................. I was shooting in manual priority with an f-stop of about 2  -  5.6 ..........



f/3.2 is the smallest I can find in all those.


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## AMOMENT (Oct 22, 2011)

( hangs head in shame )

6.


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## 480sparky (Oct 22, 2011)

You're also shooting with some very high ISOs (1600,3200) and some pretty fast shutter speeds (1/500, 1/320).  Try trading some of the shutter speed for aperture.


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## MTVision (Oct 23, 2011)

You are already shooting full auto focus! The lens focuses for you but you have to decide where to focus.  You can choose automatic focusing which is when the camera decides what to focus on - this is what happens in the green Auto setting on your camera. Your camera may still not focus where you want it to. I'm sure your photog friends just meant to not manually focus your lens - which you don't do anyways. Obviously, you know that manual focus isn't choosing your focus points and focusing on the eyes.  Its also really hard to manually focus when trying to shoot kids. Manual focus is when you spin the aperture ring (?) until the subject is in focus.

The reason you are having a hard time nailing your focus is because of what everyone else has said - your shooting wide open. You have to be pretty skilled at focusing to hit focus everytime at f/1.8 and 2. You can still get a blurred background @ f/5. The f/1.8 shots in focus were probably luck to be honest (mine are at 1.4). Even though you really like having the blurred background you need to close down a little to practice focusing.  The DOF at f/1.8-2 is razor thin so any focusing errors become blatantly obvious.


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## MTVision (Oct 23, 2011)

AMOMENT said:


> ( hangs head in shame )
> 
> 6.



The child looks a little underexposed which would be fixed in camera if you used your meter!


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## AMOMENT (Oct 23, 2011)

THANKS! I know they mean manually selecting my auto focal point and yet it is still auto but this specific person doesn't even choose her point. She shoots COMPLETELY by direction of the camera and has INCREDIBLE SHOTS! I am going to look back at my actual settings to confirm. I set the ISO in all of those pics but I think I also had my cmera set to automatically adjust my ISO which could have overridden the settings I chose. Be back in a sec with confirmation.


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## AMOMENT (Oct 23, 2011)

So the lowest F-stop I used was a 2.5  Indeed my camera was set to automatic ISO and was as high as 3200...YIKES!  That would explin alot!  I am still so new at this.  And, as I've stated earlier, I've had had minimal opportunities to really work with a still subject and explore my settings/focusing.  I tend to just set, snap, and hope to capture the moment because of the array of 2 years olds, lol, I know.  They are not really ideal for learning on.


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## AMOMENT (Oct 23, 2011)

However, I love to shoot them because they are so oblivious to the camera at times and that, to me, makes for priceless photos. =)


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## 480sparky (Oct 23, 2011)

AMOMENT said:


> ...........but this specific person doesn't even choose her point.  She shoots COMPLETELY by direction of the camera and has INCREDIBLE SHOTS!..............



Not necessarily.  She may be using a single focus point, and aims the camera so that point is where she wants the camera to focus at.  She depresses the shutter button _halfway to engage the AF, recomposes the image by moving the camera, then takes the shot by completely depressing the shutter release_. It's a technique that's hard for some to master.  It is all but invisible to those who don't know it exists because they don't know what to look for.


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## MTVision (Oct 23, 2011)

You can do that - let the camera choose where to focus. DSLR's work great as big point and shoots too! 
Below photo - shot in complete auto....camera chose everything. So, yeah the camera does a pretty good job but its still not as smart or intuitive as a human. With a little practice you coud be great a focusing and you could guarantee that when taking a portrait you are focused on the eyes.  You can't guarantee that when the camera does it for you.  My Nikon shows that in the below picture my camera focused on the little bit of tree showing next to her thigh on the right side of the frame. So, the camera didn't focus on her at all but its still a _nice_ picture - far from great!


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## MTVision (Oct 23, 2011)

AMOMENT said:


> However, I love to shoot them because they are so oblivious to the camera at times and that, to me, makes for priceless photos. =)



Your lucky.  My kid runs and hides when she sees the camera and she isn't even 2 yet!


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## MTVision (Oct 23, 2011)

http://www.joliejones.com.au/HOW_TO_NAIL_YOUR_FOCUS.pdf


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## enzodm (Oct 23, 2011)

Anyway, in most of the pictures I do not see focus as the prominent issue. As MTvision pointed out, some are underexposed, and by the way many of them have exposure compensation of -2/3 in EXIF: why?
The excellent pictures of others are a sum of many different aspects. Some eyes are just black, with no catchlights to gain attention. Perfect focus comes after.


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## RichardsTPF (Oct 23, 2011)

Thank you for let me know focusing on one eye instead of between two  eyes. Correct me if I am wrong.
I use spot metering and AF-S mode when taking portrait. I thought there are two way to put subject's  eye in focus: 1. moving focus point, the person's height and position will vary the frame. 2. focus lock composition, need practice.
Here is my question:
Is it necessary to parallel move the camera body when recompose the frame? Can I get accurate focus if I recompose  by turning camera body on the tripod?


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## KmH (Oct 23, 2011)

The plane of focus is parallel to the image sensor. As long as recomposing or turning the camera does not involve any tilt up or down, the plane of focus will still be the same. If during the recompose the camera is moved closer to or further from the focal point, the focus would change to an extent realtive to the amount moved..


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## MLeeK (Oct 23, 2011)

I read quickly, but I didn't think I saw anyone address the focus mode here. If your subjects are moving  you want to use a continuous focus mode. 
Single focus locks the focus in the spot you place your focus point and does not change even if your subject moves. AF-a allows your camera to choose if you need to use single or continuous. Cameras notoriously make the wrong choice in everything-or at least the choice we would not make. 
When using continuous your focus tracks when your subject moves. 

Another trick to focus is to get your focus OFF the shutter button and use back button focus. I love it for portraits but not sports... It may or may not help you, but in most situations it results in better focus.


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## MTVision (Oct 23, 2011)

MLeeK said:
			
		

> I read quickly, but I didn't think I saw anyone address the focus mode here. If your subjects are moving  you want to use a continuous focus mode.
> Single focus locks the focus in the spot you place your focus point and does not change even if your subject moves. AF-a allows your camera to choose if you need to use single or continuous. Cameras notoriously make the wrong choice in everything-or at least the choice we would not make.
> When using continuous your focus tracks when your subject moves.
> 
> Another trick to focus is to get your focus OFF the shutter button and use back button focus. I love it for portraits but not sports... It may or may not help you, but in most situations it results in better focus.



It was addressed - she already shoots af-c. You can shoot in af-s and have no focusing errors with moving children. I actually prefer af-s with children because the camera isn't always going to keep focus exactly where you want it (usually the eyes). It will track the subject but not necessarily keep the focus in the same exact spot. In her previous thread there was a link provided on how to photograph children and it recommended af-s. 

Thanks for recommending back button focusing! I told her about it in PM so I'm glad someone else finally mentioned it.


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## RichardsTPF (Oct 23, 2011)

Do you prefer focus lock recompose?


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## kundalini (Oct 23, 2011)

My 2¢ is that in the majority of these images, your camera position is too high. As in, your shooting a child from an adults POV. Camera position for (traditional) portraits should be even with or _slightly _higher than eye level. As my old football coach used to say...... drop down and give me a knee.


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## MLeeK (Oct 23, 2011)

MTVision said:


> MLeeK said:
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See what I get for trying to read so fast! LOL!!!
I am like you and with portraits of any sort prefer the AF-s, but I do know a LOT of child photographers who are just the opposite of us too. It's something to play with and find  your own comfort I guess.


I also wanted to add that I find with focus and recomposing and shooting at a fair to wide aperture OFTEN throws off the focus. Think about the way your body rotates and how if you turn slightly to the left or right your nose position would be back further than it was looking straight forward... So is the shutter of the lens which effectively changes your focus. When  you are working with a VERY shallow depth of field that fraction of a shift in the position of the sensor to the plane of focus matters greatly.


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## Tomasko (Oct 23, 2011)

RichardsTPF said:


> Do you prefer focus lock recompose?


Why Focus-Recompose Sucks


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## MTVision (Oct 23, 2011)

I definitely agree that you have to find your own way to do thing but that means that you (not you specifically) have to play with all the settings to see what works best for you. 

I don't think the OP's issue is focusing per say. Now, that she knows where to focus (and not between the eyes) I think she will see an improvement in that aspect. But, she really likes the shallow depth of field but she has mentioned how part of the face will be slightly OOF - which isn't due to focusing.  Its caused by shooting pretty wide open. Like you said though, any slight movement will through the focus off and make it blatantly obvious because of the small DOF!


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## MTVision (Oct 23, 2011)

RichardsTPF said:


> Do you prefer focus lock recompose?



I don't usually recompose so I can't really give an opinion. IMO - when shooting active, crazy 2 year old's I don't really have time to focus/recompose - I don't know if it would even work with kids since they are moving so much.  But, I don't really know because I've never tried it. I usually just move my focal points to compose the shot.


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## vtf (Oct 23, 2011)

With every 50mm 1.8 there should be directions to go immediately to a forum for instructions because everyone ends here eventually. The sweet spot for the 50mm is f4 to f6.3. At f1.8 and 5 feet away the plane of focus is merely .2 feet. On a moving child your minimum shutter speed should be 200. This is why I shoot manual so I can have control. 
This may help some.
Online Depth of Field Calculator


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## MTVision (Oct 23, 2011)

vtf said:
			
		

> With every 50mm 1.8 there should be directions to go immediately to a forum for instructions because everyone ends here eventually. ]



^^^^ that's funny!


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## vtf (Oct 24, 2011)

Using the information from your shots you will have .37 feet of focus plane. This isn't terribly bad for a subject that is still and you want focus to fade off quickly behind, but for a moving child I would lower your shutter to 200 or 250 and set aperture at 4 to 5.6. You could go as high as f11 and have a foot of focus, as long as the background is some distance away it should still blur but around f4 or so is better.
Also, do you shoot in RAW, I think the posted shots need just a tad sharpening.
One last detail, when photographing children or animals, get down to their world, lie on the ground if you have to, you'll have an amazing perspective of what your children see and we have forgotten.
:thumbup:


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## vtf (Oct 24, 2011)

AMOMENT said:


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You can definately see the benefit of flash, top 2 vs. bottom 3. Utilizing flash will make the adjustments simpler.


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## KmH (Oct 24, 2011)

vtf said:


> With every 50mm 1.8 there should be directions to go immediately to a forum for instructions because everyone ends here eventually. The sweet spot for the 50mm is f4 to f6.3. At f1.8 and 5 feet away the plane of focus is merely .2 feet. On a moving child your minimum shutter speed should be 200. This is why I shoot manual so I can have control.
> This may help some.
> Online Depth of Field Calculator


Right on!

FWIW: .2 feet = 2.4 inches, and the way DoF works roughly 1/2 of that, 1.2 inches is in front of the focus point and the other roughly 1/2 is behind the focus point.

The OP's biggest problem is she doesn't yet have even a rudimentary understanding of the technical aspects of doing photography with a DSLR camera.

Here is a great group of digital photography technical tutorials: Digital Photography Tutorials

To do photography well will require a good, solid, basic understanding of most of the subjects in that list of tutorials.


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## Neiby (Oct 24, 2011)

Noob question here: how does using back-button focus help? My 60D has that option, but I haven't tried it yet. I can quickly set it so that the back button does AF and the front only sets exposure instead of using one for both, but it's not immediately clear to me how this would improve focusing.


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## MTVision (Oct 24, 2011)

Neiby said:


> Noob question here: how does using back-button focus help? My 60D has that option, but I haven't tried it yet. I can quickly set it so that the back button does AF and the front only sets exposure instead of using one for both, but it's not immediately clear to me how this would improve focusing.



"With back button focusing you are seperating focus from the shutter button. Say you have a stationary object - you use BBF to lock focus where you want it (you don't even have to hold the button depending on your settings - just hit it once) and you can keep taking shots without refocusing. You can recompose the shot easier - without losing focus to an extent. BBF basically locks focus. 

Back Button Focusing | Tutorials @ RKP

Choose your fastest lens (your nifty fifty will be perfect for this)  and set it to its largest aperture.  Place a few things (3-4 small  objects like coffee mugs will work) at different places on an  uncluttered table.  Vary the distance of the objects to you and your  camera, but be sure to place them so that they&#8217;ll all fit in your camera  viewfinder.  The next steps describe the _focus/recompose _technique so if you&#8217;re already familiar, get to it.
 Get as close as you can to your minimum focusing distance and center  the closest object  in your frame.  Press the back button to focus on  it.  Use the shutter button to activate your meter and dial in proper  exposure, but don&#8217;t take the picture yet.  Once that&#8217;s done, recompose  the image so that one of the other objects is centered in your  viewfinder, but make sure that the original object is still in the  frame.  *Don&#8217;t refocus!* Now, take the picture.
 The object that you originally focused on should still have the main  focus even though it wasn&#8217;t the object in the center of the frame when  you pressed the shutter button.
 It will take some time to get used to using BBF, but once you do, you&#8217;ll wonder how you ever took pictures without it."


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## MLeeK (Oct 24, 2011)

Neiby said:


> Noob question here: how does using back-button focus help? My 60D has that option, but I haven't tried it yet. I can quickly set it so that the back button does AF and the front only sets exposure instead of using one for both, but it's not immediately clear to me how this would improve focusing.



It separates the metering and shutter action from the focus making focus something you have to do while you aren't concentrating on the scene, meter and settings. It's VERY easy to focus and glance at that meter while you are prepping for a shot and knock out focus without ever knowing it. Keeping the two separate also makes for much more accurate metering in the priority modes.


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## Neiby (Oct 24, 2011)

Thanks, but I still don't get it.  lol  I already do focus/recompose without the back button. I'm just not getting how moving the focus to a different button helps. I'll read the tutorial you linked to. Maybe the light bulb will turn on in my head.


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## MTVision (Oct 24, 2011)

Neiby said:
			
		

> Thanks, but I still don't get it.  lol  I already do focus/recompose without the back button. I'm just not getting how moving the focus to a different button helps. I'll read the tutorial you linked to. Maybe the light bulb will turn on in my head.



Yeah but the way you focus and recompose doesn't necessarily lock the focus. You have to keep the shutter pressed halfway down to recompose and there is always a chance the camera will switch focus to something else. With BBF you can hit the button and take more than 1 shot without ever focusing again or hitting the button again. I can hit the back button, lock focus, take the shot and then take a few more without focusing as Lon as the subject hasn't moved.


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## MTVision (Oct 24, 2011)

Big Mike said:
			
		

> As for the back button focus, that is something I've been doing for 5 years now.  On my older cameras, I set the custom function to all the * button to activate focus, rather than the shutter release button.  Now they have added an af-on button back there, which is great.
> I wouldn't say that it will give you 'more accurate' focus, it just allows you to separate the focusing from the shutter button, which may mean that you miss-focus less often.


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## Neiby (Oct 24, 2011)

I think I get it...but I don't get it. I just read an article that mentioned a good use case. If I switch to BBF and stay in AI Servo mode, I can keep a focus point on moving objects and make sure I'm staying in focus. However, my noob brain is just not seeing the advantage to it when shooting in one-shot focus mode. If I'm taking multiple shots and recomposing, it seems to make more sense to refocus each time just in case.

Then again, I wonder if this solves a problem I've been running into occasionally. If I focus/recompose, my exposure can be off if I'm in Av or Tv, so I use AE Lock to lock an exposure, then focus and recompose. If I used BBF, I could focus, then half-press the shutter to set exposure, which solves the problem without AE lock, right?


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## MLeeK (Oct 24, 2011)

Neiby said:


> I think I get it...but I don't get it. I just read an article that mentioned a good use case. If I switch to BBF and stay in AI Servo mode, I can keep a focus point on moving objects and make sure I'm staying in focus. However, my noob brain is just not seeing the advantage to it when shooting in one-shot focus mode. If I'm taking multiple shots and recomposing, it seems to make more sense to refocus each time just in case.
> 
> Then again, I wonder if this solves a problem I've been running into occasionally. If I focus/recompose, my exposure can be off if I'm in Av or Tv, so I use AE Lock to lock an exposure, then focus and recompose. If I used BBF, I could focus, then half-press the shutter to set exposure, which solves the problem without AE lock, right?




I can't use back button effectively yet while i am shooting sports. For weddings, portraits and the like? YES. The best thing I can tell you is to play with it and see what it does. Explaining things in type doesn't always come out the way it does by just plain doing it. 

Focus and recompose is really a bad habit to use. I know we all do it to a degree, but when you move side to side you really are almost always changing the focal plane. Unless you are shooting with a depth of field of more than 6 inches or close to it you may run the risk of really being able to notice it. Ideally you would toggle to the focus point that falls where you want to lock focus and use that one. That's a lot of buttons to be playing as you are shooting but as with everything-practice makes perfect. It does get to be second nature. 
Now with sports I don't toggle at all. I use the middle, lower focus point for football. Middle area for Volleyball, Upper middle for basketball, middle area for wrestling. Why? that puts my subjects where I want them when it comes time to crop the image to standard sizes and it also keeps my field/court/mat balanced and doesn't give me a great gaping expanse of green or yellow or mat.


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## Neiby (Oct 24, 2011)

I've been reading more about this, including on another forum, and I still can't see the benefit for me unless I'm in continuous focusing mode, which I would never be in unless I'm shooting sports. It's kind of hard to focus and recompose in continuous focusing mode.  lol  I suppose I could switch to AI Servo mode, but then I'd constantly have to switch AF points since I would no longer be able to focus and recompose.


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## MTVision (Oct 24, 2011)

Not everyone has to use it. It's an option. 
Here is a link to a great article that explains all the benefits including focus/recompose. 

http://www.learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2011/backbutton_af_article.shtml


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## Neiby (Oct 24, 2011)

MTVision said:


> Not everyone has to use it. It's an option.
> Here is a link to a great article that explains all the benefits including focus/recompose.
> 
> Canon DLC: Article: Back-Button Auto Focus Explained



Aha! I totally get it now, and now I can't wait to start trying it.    Now that I see the problems it solves, I can see how incredibly useful it can be.


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## RichardsTPF (Oct 24, 2011)

I don't see AF-ON button on my D90. I read manual and Google it. I only found AF-L, and got confused.


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## MTVision (Oct 24, 2011)

It might be the same button - not completely positive on the d90. I have one button that says ae-l/af-l. I have to go into the menu and assign its function.


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## MTVision (Oct 24, 2011)

MTVision said:
			
		

> It might be the same button - not completely positive on the d90. I have one button that says ae-l/af-l. I have to go into the menu and assign its function.



I looked it up and it looks like its the same button.  It wouldn't be listed as back button focus in your manual. It would be af something. If you go into your camera menu look for where you can assign functions and you should find it.


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## Heitz (Oct 24, 2011)

Another possibility here is that she's shooting RAW and not post-processing to add any sharpening.


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## MTVision (Oct 24, 2011)

Heitz said:
			
		

> Another possibility here is that she's shooting RAW and not post-processing to add any sharpening.



You are actually right. She said in a previous post that she only sharpens the eyes.


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