# Denoise comparison between LR and Topaz Denoise AI



## Braineack (Jan 4, 2020)

I've never been quite happy with LR's denoise algorithm, and I never really liked any of the PS solutions, which required a lot of masking to prevent the loss of details, leaving you with a noisey subject and smoothed background.

So I acquired Topaz Denoise AI to try it out.

Here's a recent shot of mine and one of my worst offenders.  ISO5600 on a D800 shot at f/1.6 with only lights from the sparklers to light the subjects.

Full Shot - LR without denoise.  (just realized the cropped out the bottom portion of the frame, whoops)






Full Shot - LR with 30% denoise.  This is how I exported and delivered it.





Full Shot - LR with 98% denoise. This is the least amount of DR to get the noise almost smoothed away.





Full Shot - Topaz Denoise AI.  Look at the difference in fine details between this and above, look at how much better the noise is removed as well.







1:1 - LR without denoise.



 

1:1 - LR with 30% denoise.





1:1 - LR with 98% denoise.





1:1 - Topaz Denoise AI.








Pretty damn impressive.  It did do weird things to the texture of the suit, and this was a pretty extreme example, and all I did was push the auto button.   I have a few old shots I wanted to simply remove the noise pattern in shots, so I'm going to try to run them through and see how it looks.


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## tirediron (Jan 4, 2020)

Nice write-up; thanks for posting!


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## Flying Panda (Jan 4, 2020)

Nice posting Brian. I too have never been satisfied with LR algorithms. Seems the more noise removed the smoother the image. I've always heard Topaz had good software (algorithms). I only have one simple question - Is the latest version of Topaz AI user freindly or, in other words, is there a small learning curve or is it a hassle to get started with from scratch?


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## Braineack (Jan 4, 2020)

There's three sliders.  That's it


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## CherylL (Jan 4, 2020)

I use Define in the Nik Collection.  Wonder if Topaz is better?  Nik does make things soft.


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## smoke665 (Jan 4, 2020)

I don't know if the noise reduction capability of Lr has declined or if I'm more critical, but had also thought about trying Topaz since they added AI. Looks like they may be onto something. In the last shot it appears they might not handle color noise quite as well (under man's chin).


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## Original katomi (Jan 4, 2020)

Nice prog, what is the price on this ..ok I know it will be approx because of the dollar to gbp


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## adamhiram (Jan 4, 2020)

Thanks for sharing!  I generally prefer the high ISO noise to the resulting loss of detail, and skip the NR sliders in LR unless I am using them in conjunction with the sharpening tool.  This looks very promising.


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## Derrel (Jan 4, 2020)

You are now Brian. Topaz does an excellent job.


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## Braineack (Jan 4, 2020)

This is an image I always wanted to fix:




as you can see, i masked the bird, feathered and then blurred the BG in PS.  This was a technique i found on FM from a very accomplished bird photographer who shot Canon.


when i use LR to smooth noise, it completely trashes the images:




you lose all detail, and i had the detail slider up to 100, and denoise to 50%.



now look at Topaz:





not only did it completely eliminate all noise, it actually *increased *the fine detail on the bird itself.  again, i pressed auto and let it do its thing.  really happy with this result.


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## DarkShadow (Jan 4, 2020)

I been using DeNoise 6 over a year now, its fantastic.It has 6 slider adjustments 12 presets that can be tweaked with the sliders.  Another excellent one is  Noiseware By Imagenomic.


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## Braineack (Jan 4, 2020)

DarkShadow said:


> I been using DeNoise 6 over a year now, its fantastic.It has 6 slider adjustments 12 presets that can be tweaked with the sliders.  Another excellent one is  Noiseware By Imagenomic.



I have 1.3.3  I only have 3 sliders...

Remove noise, enhance sharpness, and recover detail.





If I read correctly, AI Clear is an older algorithm:


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## DarkShadow (Jan 4, 2020)

I have the version 6 the one before the version you are using now no longer even on Topaz site as far i have seen other then AI Here is what mine looks like open with an image.There is also 5 preset with selected camera's  like the D750 the D810 etc  but have the foggiest idea what thats is about don't use them.


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## SquarePeg (Jan 5, 2020)

DarkShadow said:


> I have the version 6 the one before the version you are using now no longer even on Topaz site as far i have seen other then AI Here is what mine looks like open with an image.There is also 5 preset with selected camera's  like the D750 the D810 etc  but have the foggiest idea what thats is about don't use them.View attachment 184697



‘That’s the version I have as well.  There was a great tutorial on Topaz’s site a few years ago on using the options but typically I end up using the suggested settings with very little tweaking.  I’ve been debating switching to a Mac and then will lose all my Topaz plug ins.  While I do like playing around with them all, I don’t expect to re-buy the Mac  versions except for De-noise which I wouldn’t want to be without.  

The new Topaz AI Gigapixel looks like a winner as well - I may give that a go when the price drops a bit.


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## DarkShadow (Jan 5, 2020)

I tried to try the new version as i can upgrade free but it wont even open when I try  to select from where i am loading a photo in to DeNoise, it just sits there spinning away forever.I tried rebooting  and reinstalling same thing every time eventually i gave up. I also have the Mac Version on macOS Mojave.


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## Flying Panda (Jan 5, 2020)

smoke665 said:


> I don't know if the noise reduction capability of Lr has declined or if I'm more critical, but had also thought about trying Topaz since they added AI. Looks like they may be onto something. In the last shot it appears they might not handle color noise quite as well (under man's chin).



Smoke, I thought of you when I began reading Brian's post because you have the latest version of LR while I have version 6.9 standalone, which is currently obsolete. I was wondering if Adobe had made any improvements in their NR algorithms.

Brian, your test imaging on the Morning Dove has convinced me that any type of NR software will definitely be an improvement over LR. I'm going to sit back now and see how many different software applications are being used from different members and their input of their software's effectiveness. Great thread!!!!


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## smoke665 (Jan 5, 2020)

@Flying Panda I haven't had an opportunity to check out how Ver 9 handles noise yet. I routinely shoot high ISO, my avatar was at ISO 25600, the K1MII is rated to a native ISO 819200, but once above 51200, noise becomes significant. I try to manage some of that before it ever gets to Lr, by using the in camera High ISO NR, and Shadow Correction, as well as ETTR #1, but I might just be expecting more then is possible at the higher levels. Still I may give Topaz a try.


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## Braineack (Jan 5, 2020)

I'm using the latest lr version.


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## Derrel (Jan 5, 2020)

Good for you Brian!


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## SquarePeg (Jan 6, 2020)

Braineack said:


> you can see, i masked the bird, feathered and then blurred the BG in PS. This was a technique i found on FM from a very accomplished bird photographer who shot Canon.



fake blur alert - call the photo cops!

Seriously though, great technique.


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## Braineack (Jan 6, 2020)

unsharp mask the piss out of the subject, and glassien bur the piss out of the BG.


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## Overread (Jan 6, 2020)

Has anyone compared it to Neat Image? I've been using that for a long while, though must admit I don't use it to its fullest potential (it has a LOT of sliders)


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## Flying Panda (Jan 6, 2020)

Overread said:


> Has anyone compared it to Neat Image? I've been using that for a long while, though must admit I don't use it to its fullest potential (it has a LOT of sliders)



I have Neat Image version 8.2.0 64bit. I have been using this software (Neat Image) for years and it has worked well for me but in my opinion, it is not very user friendly. It has a learning curve one must go through and the reason I haven't tried other software is because it has taken a great deal of trial and error (time) to accomplish the full effectiveness of the software's potential. I'm statisfied with the results I get from Neat Image but I really can't compare it to anything else, so there may just be something better on the market - don't know! I can say that the price for the standalone version is around $40 bucks (plugins are about $10 more) which may scare some folks away, thinking it is too cheap to be any good. But another thing about Neat Image is it has a sharpening algorithm with it that is sometimes useful  - but like anything else, it can "over process" some photos.


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## jephoto (May 29, 2021)

SquarePeg said:


> ‘That’s the version I have as well.  There was a great tutorial on Topaz’s site a few years ago on using the options but typically I end up using the suggested settings with very little tweaking.  I’ve been debating switching to a Mac and then will lose all my Topaz plug ins.  While I do like playing around with them all, I don’t expect to re-buy the Mac  versions except for De-noise which I wouldn’t want to be without.
> 
> The new Topaz AI Gigapixel looks like a winner as well - I may give that a go when the price drops a bit.


Are you sure Topaz won’t let you transfer your license to the Mac version? 
I’d contact their sales people and tell them you’re switching computers. I think it’s highly probable that they’ll transfer the license for you rather than lose you as a customer


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## SquarePeg (May 29, 2021)

jephoto said:


> Are you sure Topaz won’t let you transfer your license to the Mac version?
> I’d contact their sales people and tell them you’re switching computers. I think it’s highly probable that they’ll transfer the license for you rather than lose you as a customer


Yes I was actually able to download the Mac versions at no extra charge. Also was able to upgrade to all of the most recent versions for free.  Great customer service on their part.


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## jeffashman (Jul 18, 2021)

I've found that I like DeNoiseAI, and it is a regular part of my process. The following two images are before and after DeNoiseAI with no other processing other than to crop and convert from RAW to JPG. This pic is an extreme case, because I was trying to capture the image with just natural light coming in the window. AutoISO maxed out at the 25600 limiy I set in the Canon 90D. The final product after further processing looked much better than the original.

Before DeNoise AI


PepperTestBeforeDAI (2) by Jeff Ashman, on Flickr

After DeNoise AI


PepperTestAfterDAI (2) by Jeff Ashman, on Flickr


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## Braineack (Jul 19, 2021)

Um, did you grab the correct "after" file?

FWIW, denoise wouldn't even have been necessary whatsoever on this shot.  Still life in a controlled environment?  Use a tripod, shoot at 100 ISO and a very very very long shutter speed.


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## photoflyer (Jul 19, 2021)

I have not used either of those but I do use DXO's  DeepPrime AI option.  I'll apply it while at 400% zoom to see how much sharpness is lost and it is amazing how often I conclude that, without the noise it is actually as sharp if not more so.  

Have you used the Topaz upscaling utility?


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## jeffashman (Jul 19, 2021)

Braineack said:


> Um, did you grab the correct "after" file?
> 
> FWIW, denoise wouldn't even have been necessary whatsoever on this shot.  Still life in a controlled environment?  Use a tripod, shoot at 100 ISO and a very very very long shutter speed.


Yeah, believe it or not, that's the after. Probably a bad picture for the example.


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## ac12 (Jul 19, 2021)

Any of you know how much CPU or GPU power the AI denoising SW uses.
IOW, will I need to use a GPU card to use these denoise SW?


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## jeffashman (Jul 19, 2021)

ac12 said:


> Any of you know how much CPU or GPU power the AI denoising SW uses.
> IOW, will I need to use a GPU card to use these denoise SW?


These are the minimums

Hardware Minimum Requirements​
*Processor (CPU)*Intel i5 or AMD Ryzen 5 equivalent or above (3.0 GHz and above)*System Memory (RAM)*8GB (16GB and higher is recommended for improved performance)*Graphics Card (GPU)*OpenGL 3.3 or higher required.
Nvidia GTX 740 or AMD Radeon 5870 (higher series graphics cards recommended)*Dedicated Graphics Memory (VRAM)*2 GB (6GB or more for optimum performance)*Display (Monitor)*At least 1024x768


With that said, my system has an AMD Rhyzen 5 6 core 3.6GHz CPU, Nvidia GTX 1070 with 8GB, and 32GB system memory. I have DeNoise AI set to use my GPU, and a full session runs in about 1 minute, which includes opening the image, running all three denoise options in auto mode, and saving back to disk. The minimum requirements will work, but it takes a lot longer to run the process. A lot of people get all worked up, because they try to run the software on a standard notebook PC, which are usually underpowered, even if they meet the minimums, and the integrated video is very weak on those machines. If you have a good GPU, then use the GPU, since it should be faster. You can download a demo and test it out to get an idea of how well it works. Hope that helps.


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## ac12 (Jul 19, 2021)

jeffashman said:


> These are the minimums
> 
> Hardware Minimum Requirements​
> *Processor (CPU)*Intel i5 or AMD Ryzen 5 equivalent or above (3.0 GHz and above)*System Memory (RAM)*8GB (16GB and higher is recommended for improved performance)*Graphics Card (GPU)*OpenGL 3.3 or higher required.
> ...



Thanks
Sigh, looks like I will have to get a graphics card.
Right now they seem to be very inflated in prices, along with a lot of other computer stuff.

I checked ON1 NoNoise and it looks like it also requires a GPU card.


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## jeffashman (Jul 20, 2021)

ac12 said:


> Thanks
> Sigh, looks like I will have to get a graphics card.
> Right now they seem to be very inflated in prices, along with a lot of other computer stuff.
> 
> I checked ON1 NoNoise and it looks like it also requires a GPU card.


Yes, graphics card prices are grossly inflated. Hopefully the supply chain and chip manufacturing situation will improve over the next year. Cameras and lenses have been affected as well.


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## Soocom1 (Jul 20, 2021)

OK.. Here is a quick question to anyone who would be in the know. 

I have a 2009 iMac pro, but hackintoshed to Catalina. 

will I be able to load this onto that machine or will the emulation of Catalina blow it out? 

would I have to do what I did with capture One and regress to an older version?


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## Rickbb (Jul 20, 2021)

Soocom1 said:


> OK.. Here is a quick question to anyone who would be in the know.
> 
> I have a 2009 iMac pro, but hackintoshed to Catalina.
> 
> ...


I’m surprised you can any new software to run on any 09 system, MAC or PC.

Does it have a slot to add a newer GPU, or replace the one there? If not you are way past time for a serious upgrade.


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## Soocom1 (Jul 20, 2021)

Rickbb said:


> I’m surprised you can any new software to run on any 09 system, MAC or PC.
> 
> Does it have a slot to add a newer GPU, or replace the one there? If not you are way past time for a serious upgrade.


The memory and HD have been upgraded. 
I purchased it because i dont have $1500 for a new one. 

it works and CO works well onit. 

Outside that I am wondering if i can run topaz on an emulated OS.


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## jeffashman (Jul 20, 2021)

Soocom1 said:


> OK.. Here is a quick question to anyone who would be in the know.
> 
> I have a 2009 iMac pro, but hackintoshed to Catalina.
> 
> ...


The requirements for Mac are below, so I think the answer is no. I also doubt that the GPU and CPU would be up to the task on a machine that old.
*Mac:*

macOS version 10.13 (High Sierra) and above (for macOS 10.12 use DeNoise AI v2.2.12)

Apple Silicon/M1 processors are supported in version 3.0.0 of DeNoise AI (and higher)


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