# Can I sell this?



## jdh313 (Jun 1, 2014)

Hello,
To give a brief intro: I'm a photographer who mostly takes photos of trains.  I've recently started my own website and I thought that on the side I'll try to sell some prints.  Yes, I know I can't make a living off of it, and yes, I know it's tough to do.  The way I look at it: it isn't costing me anything to add the page, and if I make a few bucks, GREAT!  Anyway, I can't find a definite answer on whether or not I can sell a photo w/ the company name.  I'll put an example here, and please let me know if I can sell prints with this material.
Thank you!


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## KmH (Jun 1, 2014)

Assuming you are in the USA (no location in profile):

trademarks | Photo Attorney


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## jdh313 (Jun 1, 2014)

I added a location.  And thanks for the link!


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## bratkinson (Jun 3, 2014)

No doubt, you've been trackside enough in NJ and elsewhere to know you are not alone as a railfan with a camera. I've seen other railfans with everything from a cell phone to a point and shoot cameras to high end Canon or Nikon gear trackside. 

The question in my mind is: Is there a demand for your what you're offering? How many other railfans that know how to take quality images have high end camera gear (myself included) have considered making a few dollars on the side selling images? Is the market saturated? Is there enough market to justify ones' time and efforts? 

The problem is where to market your images. I've not discovered what the various RR oriented magazines may or may not pay. But I'm sure they get many images submitted for consideration and select precious few for publication, and sometimes it's a year or more before they use the image, unless it's a news item. A fair number of shots and a good article to go with it? You&#8217;ve probably got a winner. Various societies that publish calendars each year can always use a good image, but they are generally limited to donations, I suspect. The railroads themselves? I haven't seen any NS calendars, but the CSX calendar has all employee-submitted photographs on it. NS probably does the same.

So, perhaps the web is the best place to sell your pictures. But, how are potential customers going to find your site? Not to rain on your parade, but trying to be 'seen' is likely the biggest issue. Throw in the various internet forums that have more than enough images out there to suit most armchair railroaders&#8217; desires. So what's left?

I've seen advertising here and there for CDs of rail-oriented images for sale. I haven't looked lately, but there's likely some CDs of images for this railroad or that railroad on ebay almost all the time. The issue is pricing. Between ebay seller fees and Paypal fees, there's 15% gone. Add in say, 30 minutes of your time to burn a CD and print the top of it with a nice image, etc. Cost of the CDs, sleeves or clear cases, packaging, USPS charges, etc. Maybe $7-8 dollars for a $30 CD is already gone, plus your time. And don't forget time to make postings, etc. Maybe make up batches of 5-10 CDs or (framed) prints and sell or consign them to some local model railroad stores. See if that gets some response.

My own guess is there aren't enough potential customers to pay, say, $50 for a 10x14 print, on archival paper, nicely framed. In years past, I've paid that for historical photographs, but I don't believe the 'market' is willing to pay that much these days. The sad truth is that any railfan with a digital camera can make enough prints to satisfy filling their walls with pictures. So unless you have a subject that a purchaser doesn&#8217;t have or can&#8217;t photograph themselves, the market is quite limited, in my estimation. 

For what it's worth, I used to sell some excess items on ebay. What I quickly found out is that I spend just as much time selling/marketing/packaging $5.00 items as $300 items. I quickly learned to sell multiple low cost items together as a 'package deal'. So, it might take 3 CDs full of images for $25 to make a sale. &#12288;

I&#8217;d first look around at what other railfan photographers are producing/selling. You might even want to contact them and find out if they consider it &#8216;worth while&#8217;. I&#8217;m guessing you&#8217;ll find more lucrative uses of your photography skills doing weddings or engagement photography.​


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## KmH (Jun 3, 2014)

There are a lot of places that photo could be marketed well beyond magazines devoted to railroad related content.

The way to make money with a photo like that is to license usage of the photo to a variety of users.
You can't make much (if any) money if you wait for them to come to you. You need to go to them.
I would suggest that today photographs used for editorial purposes don't generate much in the way of $s and most of the images used in specialty magazines that were submitted on speculation pay $0 if used. 

One of the nice things about copyright is that copyright is a bundle of rights and photographers can rent use of their copyrighted images. That is what a use license is - a copyright rental/lease agreement. Tutorials & Forms | American Society of Media Photographers

No doubt it takes some effort to find publications and other photography users that might be interested in using your image(s).
Here is an inexpensive resource that can make that easier - 2014 Photographer's Market


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## jdh313 (Jun 3, 2014)

Thank you for all of the advice bratkinson and KmH.  To be honest, selling isn't a priority to me.  It was more or less "I want a site to show my work, why not put up a page and maybe make a few dollars."  I just wanted to make sure I wouldn't be sued for all of this which, thanks to the links, I no know I won't.  I'll without a doubt give everything here a second read, and see what I can do.  Thank you again!
By the way, if you're interested, my website is: Jacob Hoehler


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## jdh313 (Jun 3, 2014)

In hindsight I probably shouldn't have posted to the Business forum as I'm not really a business.


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## Trainwizard (Jun 4, 2014)

Awesome to know I'm not the only railfan here on TPF!


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## vintagesnaps (Jun 4, 2014)

I think it depends on usage. If you were to sell a fine art print that is for the buyer's personal use (to frame and hang on a wall) that would be different than licensing usage for retail or commercial use. For retail/commercial use too you usually would want to get a property release; for editorial use (news) you usually wouldn't need that, although I've read that sometimes media outlets will ask for one. I've used ASMP's info. too; Keith linked their organization's website. 

If it was a vintage train with a logo of a company no longer in existence that would seem to be historic, but if it's a company that's still in business I think it might be a trademark violation to use it for retail/commercial use without their permission. I would think about doing some research on it if you're selling online where to me it seems that you don't really know how the buyer would use it. Typically for licensing your images you'd need a contract and would determine the specific usage and timeframe, etc. and that might be where you'd need to check further into this or consult with a lawyer.

In my state you have to make a certain amount of money per year before you start paying taxes on it; you might need to check into at what point you need to become a business.


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