# Setting white balance with a gray card



## adamhiram

I’ve used different methods of setting my white balance over the years.  Sometimes auto wb in the camera or Lightroom’s auto wb gets pretty close, while other times I find it helpful to use Lightroom's wb eyedropper tool on something white/neutral in the photo as a starting point.  Either way, I typically tweak it manually by eye on a calibrated display until it looks just right, often with vibrance set to 100% to exaggerate any color casts.

I’ve also collected a handful of accessories used to help set white balance, and have had very mixed results with them.  I’m not sure if I’m using them wrong, if they are defective, or if that’s just the nature of trying to take a shortcut.

In the test shot below, I have the following items that should be usable for setting white balance.  The background is a Westcott 40” white reflector.  In the center is a Lastolite 12” collapsible gray card, and lastly, I threw in some cheap Adorama gray/white/black cards that I’ve had in my bag for as long as I can remember.

For the test shot, the camera was perpendicular to the reflector and gray cards, and a soft box was used as the only light source, about 45 degrees off-axis directly in front of the camera (top of frame).  This was shot in a dark room with no ambient light.




20170601-DSC_2571a

Here are the settings I got without the gray cards:

As shot (camera auto wb): 6550 -1
Lightroom auto wb: 7500 +1
Manually set wb by eye: 7300 +2 (this is the current wb setting in the image above)
Next I used the eyedropper tool in Lightroom on the various accessories in the photo.  To avoid any anomalous readings, I took 8 samples each and use the average.

Large white reflector: 7175 +2
Collapsible gray card: 7540 +4
Small gray card: 6930 +3
Small white card: 7730 -6
Small black card: 7620 -2
Any thoughts on why I am seeing different results for different cards?  In theory, every surface in this photo should be color neutral and is illuminated by the same single light source.  Is it likely that some of these are not as color-neutral as I would believe, or am I using them wrong?  Or is a color temp difference of 500-600K really not something to stress over?


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## Ysarex

adamhiram said:


> I’ve used different methods of setting my white balance over the years.  Sometimes auto wb in the camera or Lightroom’s auto wb gets pretty close, while other times I find it helpful to use Lightroom's wb eyedropper tool on something white/neutral in the photo as a starting point.  Either way, I typically tweak it manually by eye on a calibrated display until it looks just right, often with vibrance set to 100% to exaggerate any color casts.
> 
> I’ve also collected a handful of accessories used to help set white balance, and have had very mixed results with them.  I’m not sure if I’m using them wrong, if they are defective, or if that’s just the nature of trying to take a shortcut.
> 
> In the test shot below, I have the following items that should be usable for setting white balance.  The background is a Westcott 40” white reflector.  In the center is a Lastolite 12” collapsible gray card, and lastly, I threw in some cheap Adorama gray/white/black cards that I’ve had in my bag for as long as I can remember.
> 
> For the test shot, the camera was perpendicular to the reflector and gray cards, and a soft box was used as the only light source, about 45 degrees off-axis directly in front of the camera (top of frame).  This was shot in a dark room with no ambient light.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 20170601-DSC_2571a
> 
> Here are the settings I got without the gray cards:
> 
> As shot (camera auto wb): 6550 -1
> Lightroom auto wb: 7500 +1
> Manually set wb by eye: 7300 +2 (this is the current wb setting in the image above)
> Next I used the eyedropper tool in Lightroom on the various accessories in the photo.  To avoid any anomalous readings, I took 8 samples each and use the average.
> 
> Large white reflector: 7175 +2
> Collapsible gray card: 7540 +4
> Small gray card: 6930 +3
> Small white card: 7730 -6
> Small black card: 7620 -2
> Any thoughts on why I am seeing different results for different cards?  In theory, every surface in this photo should be color neutral and is illuminated by the same single light source.  Is it likely that some of these are not as color-neutral as I would believe,



Yep.









adamhiram said:


> or am I using them wrong?  Or is a color temp difference of 500-600K really not something to stress over?



Most people can't see a color temp difference of less than 200K. So 500K is still pretty minor. I stopped buying commercial WB cards etc. I still have and use an X-Rite Passport, but to use as a WB reference I just cut rectangles out of white Styrofoam food trays and take out containers. I stick one in every camera bag and jacket pocket and there's a stack of new ones on my desk ready to replace one that gets dirty -- consistent and at least as good as the ones you have to pay for -- actually better.





Joe


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## Christie Photo

If I'm not shooting candids of the kids, I ALWAYS shoot a grey card at the start of each situation.  If I change the lighting, I shoot another card.  I've been doing this since the start of digital.  (Before then, I would read a card for exposure.)  Yes...  I do see slight variances, but usually I keep with the color balance as shot.

Now...  this is for commercial shots, when I need absolutely correct color.  I don't always want absolute correct color for portraiture.  It's seldom my aim to depict people as they are.  Portraits serve an entirely different purpose.  A bit of warming is desirable. 

-Pete


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## adamhiram

Here is my question then - am I using this gray card wrong, is it defective (strong color cast), or is this just not a reliable way of setting white balance?  To be clear, I am able to set white balance correctly through other means, whether it is by eye in Lightroom, or by sampling something color-neutral in a photo.  I'm just curious why I am not getting remotely usable results from a gray card.

The following examples include a test shot I took for another post, with the white balance set to what I believe is correct (top right).  The white balance is set to 7000k +2, whereas sampling from the primary light source (top left) gives me 7200K +2 - pretty close.  However, simply holding up a gray card perpendicular to the camera and lit by the exact same light source (bottom left), I get a white balance of 8525K +2.  This is off by about 1500K from what I determined to be ideal, and is too warm as can be seen in the bottom edit (bottom right).

Any thoughts on how I can actually get more value from a gray card?  I certainly don't need to use one, but I'd like to understand why I'm not getting usable results with it.




whitebalance-examples


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## Ysarex

adamhiram said:


> Here is my question then - am I using this gray card wrong, is it defective (strong color cast), or is this just not a reliable way of setting white balance?  To be clear, I am able to set white balance correctly through other means, whether it is by eye in Lightroom, or by sampling something color-neutral in a photo.  I'm just curious why I am not getting remotely usable results from a gray card.
> 
> The following examples include a test shot I took for another post, with the white balance set to what I believe is correct (top right).  The white balance is set to 7000k +2, whereas sampling from the primary light source (top left) gives me 7200K +2 - pretty close.  However, simply holding up a gray card perpendicular to the camera and lit by the exact same light source (bottom left), I get a white balance of 8525K +2.  This is off by about 1500K from what I determined to be ideal, and is too warm as can be seen in the bottom edit (bottom right).
> 
> Any thoughts on how I can actually get more value from a gray card?  I certainly don't need to use one, but I'd like to understand why I'm not getting usable results with it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whitebalance-examples



Looks like you've figured it out for yourself -- that lastolite fabric card is grey blue and you're not using it wrong. It's not color neutral. That doesn't mean you can't use it but you'd have to calculate a compensation factor for it. I don't want to sound flippant but get a cup of coffee and your problem is solved.






Joe


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## adamhiram

Ysarex said:


> Looks like you've figured it out for yourself -- that lastolite fabric card is grey blue and you're not using it wrong. It's not color neutral. That doesn't mean you can't use it but you'd have to calculate a compensation factor for it.


That's really too bad, I liked the idea of a collapsible gray card that is big enough to be usable, but small enough to throw into any bag.  The strange thing is that in controlled tests it seems to be off by about -500K, while in real world scenarios like the one above, there's a -1500K shift.  Perhaps it just has an odd reflectivity.  Who knows.



Ysarex said:


> I don't want to sound flippant but get a cup of coffee and your problem is solved.


On the contrary, if there is one thing people can take away from this thread, it's that white styrofoam is almost always pure neutral white, makes a great gray card if you underexpose it, and can be used as DIY reflectors in larger sheets.  I have a stack of 30" square sheets left over from replacing a glass shower door that I use regularly at home, they just aren't convenient to travel with.

So to summarize:

Adorama credit card sized gray card: too small to be useful, slight warm cast.
Adorama credit card sized black/white cards (come with gray card): might be useful for setting black/white points, but not color-neutral at all
Lastolite collapsible gray card: great concept, but not 18% gray (darker), and not color-neutral (off by -500 to -1500K).  Interestingly enough, the white side was a little better, but still had a slight blue cast.
Westcott 5-in-1 reflector: very close to pure white, actually pretty useful as a makeshift gray card if it's not currently in use as a reflector, but also doesn't fit in a camera bag.
White styrofoam sheets (or coffee cup!): pure white, works nicely as a gray card, just not as compact as an actual gray card.
Or to set WB manually, DIYPhotography had a nice post a few weeks ago with a simple method that is quick and easy on a properly calibrated display.
This 3 step raw colour correction tip will fix your white balance woes - DIY Photography


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## tirediron

I've tried just about every WB gadget on the market (and have almost as many of them as I have tripods...).  The ONLY two that I've found worth thinking about are (1) The white Styrofoam already mentioned, and (2) The X-Rite Colour Checker.


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## Christie Photo

adamhiram said:


> Here is my question then - am I using this gray card wrong, is it defective (strong color cast), or is this just not a reliable way of setting white balance?  To be clear, I am able to set white balance correctly through other means, whether it is by eye in Lightroom, or by sampling something color-neutral in a photo.  I'm just curious why I am not getting remotely usable results from a gray card.
> 
> The following examples include a test shot I took for another post, with the white balance set to what I believe is correct (top right).  The white balance is set to 7000k +2, whereas sampling from the primary light source (top left) gives me 7200K +2 - pretty close.  However, simply holding up a gray card perpendicular to the camera and lit by the exact same light source (bottom left), I get a white balance of 8525K +2.  This is off by about 1500K from what I determined to be ideal, and is too warm as can be seen in the bottom edit (bottom right).
> 
> Any thoughts on how I can actually get more value from a gray card?  I certainly don't need to use one, but I'd like to understand why I'm not getting usable results with it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whitebalance-examples




Fill the frame with nothing but the gray card.  Make an exposure. Then set the camera for custom white balance and select the image of the gray card.

I usually repeat the sequence, but that's just me.

-Pete


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## Ysarex

Christie Photo said:


> Fill the frame with nothing but the gray card.  Make an exposure. Then set the camera for custom white balance and select the image of the gray card.
> 
> I usually repeat the sequence, but that's just me.
> 
> -Pete



That's a Canon camera specific procedure for setting a custom JPEG white balance. The OP is a Nikon user (different procedure) and I suspect is more interested in processing raw files.

Joe


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## adamhiram

Ysarex said:


> Christie Photo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fill the frame with nothing but the gray card.  Make an exposure. Then set the camera for custom white balance and select the image of the gray card.
> 
> I usually repeat the sequence, but that's just me.
> 
> -Pete
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's a Canon camera specific procedure for setting a custom JPEG white balance. The OP is a Nikon user (different procedure) and I suspect is more interested in processing raw files.
> 
> Joe
Click to expand...

To be honest, I'm not sure if I have the ability to manually set WB in-camera with Nikon - I always shoot RAW, so it's something I typically address in post.  However, the real issues here are that my neutral gray cards are not actually color-neutral, and oddly, do not even produce consistent results between shots with slight variations in lighting setup.

I actually added "get take-out from someplace that uses white styrofoam containers" to my to-do list.


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## Ysarex

adamhiram said:


> Ysarex said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Christie Photo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fill the frame with nothing but the gray card.  Make an exposure. Then set the camera for custom white balance and select the image of the gray card.
> 
> I usually repeat the sequence, but that's just me.
> 
> -Pete
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's a Canon camera specific procedure for setting a custom JPEG white balance. The OP is a Nikon user (different procedure) and I suspect is more interested in processing raw files.
> 
> Joe
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> To be honest, I'm not sure if I have the ability to manually set WB in-camera with Nikon - I always shoot RAW, so it's something I typically address in post.  However, the real issues here are that my neutral gray cards are not actually color-neutral, and oddly, do not even produce consistent results between shots with slight variations in lighting setup.
> 
> I actually added "get take-out from someplace that uses white styrofoam containers" to my to-do list.
Click to expand...


Go to the grocery store and for a couple bucks buy a stack of white Styrofoam disposable party plates. Lifetime supply WB reference $4.00: Amazon.com: Hefty Everyday  Foam Plates (White, Soak Proof, 9-inch, 130 Count): Prime Pantry

Joe


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## table1349

When shooting sports I always use a Lastolite LL1250 and like it.  Works fine, but then it is a 12% gray card,  not the older 18% that Ansel Adams so loved.    Most camera makers calibrate  their meters towards 12% gray.  

For studio I use a WhiBal neutral white card.   It is sturdier than Styrofoam and if it gets dirty I just wipe it off.


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## adamhiram

gryphonslair99 said:


> When shooting sports I always use a Lastolite LL1250 and like it.  Works fine, but then it is a 12% gray card,  not the older 18% that Ansel Adams so loved.


That's exactly what I'm using, pictured above.  Sounds like it might just be a quality control issue, as mine is definitely not color neutral, and doesn't produce consistent results.  I looked at product reviews on various sites, and pretty quickly found the same complaints I have.  At least these complaints seem to be the exception and not the norm.  The ones quoted below are from B&H.

I experienced both of these issues:


> *EzyBalance creates incorrect colors*
> ...it would introduce a pink cast with overly warm colors. I have tried this in multiple locations under natural and artificial lights, and it always causes this effect.  ...  In addition, the white side which is to be used for setting a custom white balance in camera has a yellowish tint or discoloration to it.  This is a great concept, but unfortunately Lastolite either has quality control problems, or simply didn't bother actually trying to use this product.



Here's someone else who had inconsistent results:


> *Grey card yes, WB no so much*
> As a grey card it works great as you would expect but for white balance I find it not as accurate. Most of the time I find it generating a balance that is too warm and other times it looked too cool. So that is disappointing.


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## tecboy

I have a large Photovision.  It is nice to get a right exposure on my  camera, and I don't have to worry about changing the exposure later.  I notice the gray in the middle gets a slight yellowish tint white balance, but is hardly to noticeable.  It is just a minor issue.


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## Christie Photo

Ysarex said:


> That's a Canon camera specific procedure for setting a custom JPEG white balance. The OP is a Nikon user (different procedure) and I suspect is more interested in processing raw files.
> 
> Joe



Ahhh....  I see.  Had no clue.  (For the record, the procedure works in raw too on Canons.)

Thanks, Joe, for clearing this up!

-Pete


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## table1349

adamhiram said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> 
> When shooting sports I always use a Lastolite LL1250 and like it.  Works fine, but then it is a 12% gray card,  not the older 18% that Ansel Adams so loved.
> 
> 
> 
> That's exactly what I'm using, pictured above.  Sounds like it might just be a quality control issue, as mine is definitely not color neutral, and doesn't produce consistent results.  I looked at product reviews on various sites, and pretty quickly found the same complaints I have.  At least these complaints seem to be the exception and not the norm.  The ones quoted below are from B&H.
Click to expand...


I suspect that you don't.  I got mine years ago when Lastolite was putting them out with 12% gray on one side and white on the other.  All their gray targets are now 18% gray.


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## snowbear

gryphonslair99 said:


> adamhiram said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> 
> When shooting sports I always use a Lastolite LL1250 and like it.  Works fine, but then it is a 12% gray card,  not the older 18% that Ansel Adams so loved.
> 
> 
> 
> That's exactly what I'm using, pictured above.  Sounds like it might just be a quality control issue, as mine is definitely not color neutral, and doesn't produce consistent results.  I looked at product reviews on various sites, and pretty quickly found the same complaints I have.  At least these complaints seem to be the exception and not the norm.  The ones quoted below are from B&H.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I suspect that you don't.  I got mine years ago when Lastolite was putting them out with 12% gray on one side and white on the other.  All their gray targets are now 18% gray.
Click to expand...

keeping in mind that the percentage has nothing to do with the light-dark value of the card (and so nothing to do, specifically, with white balance).

I just eyedropper a white spot (usually a blown-out highlight) and get decent results.


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## table1349

snowbear said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> adamhiram said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> 
> When shooting sports I always use a Lastolite LL1250 and like it.  Works fine, but then it is a 12% gray card,  not the older 18% that Ansel Adams so loved.
> 
> 
> 
> That's exactly what I'm using, pictured above.  Sounds like it might just be a quality control issue, as mine is definitely not color neutral, and doesn't produce consistent results.  I looked at product reviews on various sites, and pretty quickly found the same complaints I have.  At least these complaints seem to be the exception and not the norm.  The ones quoted below are from B&H.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I suspect that you don't.  I got mine years ago when Lastolite was putting them out with 12% gray on one side and white on the other.  All their gray targets are now 18% gray.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> keeping in mind that the percentage has nothing to do with the light-dark value of the card (and so nothing to do, specifically, with white balance).
> 
> I just eyedropper a white spot (usually a blown-out highlight) and get decent results.
Click to expand...

In theory that is correct, however in the real world that may or may not be, depending on the materials used.  That is where some problems lie.  A different batch of dye in a slightly different shade could be the culprit due to the composition of the chemicals in the dye, the materials used or the finish.  It is hard to tell.


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## Braineack

adamhiram said:


> ...and is too warm as can be seen in the bottom edit (bottom right).



subjective. i think it looks much better than the shot above.

shoot raw, calibrate the WB in post for your session that youre happy with.


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## tecboy

I heard the gray card tends to age every year.  Probably get discoloration or turn a little yellow.  I do see any sign of aging on mine.


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