# lighting in harsh sun



## jamiebonline (Jul 25, 2015)

hi guys

these days i am shooting portraits a lot in very direct daytime sun. can't shoot in golden hours. here are my options:
backlight and expose for the subject
backlight and use reflector (i don't use or have a flash right now)
use open shade

and another option? what about having the sun directly lighting the subject? the shadows are harsh and the subject will squint unless they looking away or have sunglasses i know but still it is doable. but how do i counteract the harsh contrast? any exposure tricks to soften things? i have seen some pics like this that worked but not sure how they are doing them. it might all be done in post. also they were black and white not colour.

thanks for any ideas


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## TrolleySwag (Jul 25, 2015)

I'm looking into getting a 5 in 1 reflector kit. I saw some YouTube vids on it.


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## Braineack (Jul 25, 2015)

back/side light and reflector, or shade and reflector.


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## Bryston3bsst (Jul 25, 2015)

Scrim.


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## paigew (Jul 25, 2015)

What is your subject? What types of photos are you trying to achieve? I shoot in full sun almost daily and never use flash or reflector. You can use the sun in any direction you want! Here is an example of full sun straight on like you mentioned...yes he is squinty, only way to avoid a squint is to ask you subjects to close their eyes, put sunglasses on, or try to catch them in between long "blinks".


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## jamiebonline (Jul 25, 2015)

paigew said:


> What is your subject? What types of photos are you trying to achieve? I shoot in full sun almost daily and never use flash or reflector. You can use the sun in any direction you want! Here is an example of full sun straight on like you mentioned...yes he is squinty, only way to avoid a squint is to ask you subjects to close their eyes, put sunglasses on, or try to catch them in between long "blinks".
> View attachment 105499



What about the high contrast and strong shadows? How to do you manage them? I know I can use the sun full on the subject but I tend to get pics that are flat looking and unflattering.


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## paigew (Jul 25, 2015)

You gotta embrace the sun and use it for what it is...harsh shadows and high contrast. Find a way to make the shadows and contrast work. Expose for the brightest part of skin. Show us some photos and maybe we can help!

All these were taken in full sun


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## tirediron (Jul 25, 2015)

jamiebonline said:


> ... (i don't use or have a flash right now)...


Then buy one!  At a time when you can buy a basic, manual flash & triggers for <$75, that's really a pretty lame excuse.  NOTHING tames sunlight like more light.  In addition, as mentioned, scrims are an excellent option, especially when used in conjunction with supplemental light.  Reflectors are very useful, but 99% of the ones I see used are too small to do the job.  Follow the rule of thumb that the working distance of the modifier (reflector in this case) is no more than 1.5 times its size (and ideally less), and that that it is at least 2/3 (ideally more) the size of the subject you are trying to light.  To simplify:  if you are trying to shoot a full body portrait of a 6' man, then the smallest reflector you should use is 4' and it should be NO MORE than 6' away. 

The problem with reflectors, scrims, V-flats, et al, especially when used out of doors is they're very difficult to manage without an assistant.  Lights on the other hand, sit politely on their stands and are ready to be used at any time.  Save your money and buy some lights.  Life will become much, much easier.

Just to show you what can be done...  This image was shot in mid-afternoon, and was very strongly backlit.  The sun was almost overhead and just behind the subject.  Granted, you're not going to be able to achieve this with a single speedlight; I was using a studio pack & head lighting system here, but in total, only a couple of hundred w/s of light, so taming the sun really isn't that difficult.


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## jamiebonline (Jul 25, 2015)

tirediron said:


> jamiebonline said:
> 
> 
> > ... (i don't use or have a flash right now)...
> ...



 that's a pretty lame excuse? thanks  But I see you are being helpful. I had a good speedlight and triggers and softbox. But I sold them. Why? Because they were a pain in the neck to carry and set up and in the end I got flat looking images even using the softbox. Flash is after all, artificial and you can see this when you look closer at the subject in the picture. That an artificial light is illuminating them. You had to buy even more gear to do the shot you posted. And high speed synch too, no? And I imagine the setting up is not so easy. Maybe now it sounds like I am lazy! I just love to work entirely with natural light where possible and my original question was about how to use direct sun effectively. 

Reflectors can be a bit tricky too. Agreed. It's necessary to have an assistant most of the time. Maybe it is about personal taste. 



paigew said:


> You gotta embrace the sun and use it for what it is...harsh shadows and high contrast. Find a way to make the shadows and contrast work. Expose for the brightest part of skin. Show us some photos and maybe we can help!
> 
> All these were taken in full sun



Thanks yes the one on the right is especially nice. It seems you are perhaps slightly underexposing? I need to experiment more. Do you reduce contrast in post also?


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## tirediron (Jul 25, 2015)

jamiebonline said:


> ... that's a pretty lame excuse? thanks  But I see you are being helpful. I had a good speedlight and triggers and softbox. But I sold them. Why? Because they were a pain in the neck to carry and set up and in the end I got flat looking images even using the softbox. Flash is after all, artificial and you can see this when you look closer at the subject in the picture. That an artificial light is illuminating them. You had to buy even more gear to do the shot you posted. And high speed synch too, no? And I imagine the setting up is not so easy. Maybe now it sounds like I am lazy! I just love to work entirely with natural light where possible and my original question was about how to use direct sun effectively.


First off, light is light.  There is no difference between a photon arriving from the sun, and one from a speedlight.  They manne  in which they are generated is different, but the light with the exception of colour temperature is identical.  In short, all light is natural light, but that which comes from man-made sources is more easily controlled.

Could I have produced the image above with less gear?  Absolutely!  I used what I had (1) because I had it, and (2) because I'd rather deal with AC power sources then batteries; purely personal preference.  No more or less difficult to set up than a speedlight on a light stand.  As for HSS?  Nope... 1/250, manual exposure, and PWs to trigger my Speedotron pack.

I understood your question; my point was that it is much easier to add some controllability in the form of supplemental light into the equation and negate the requirement for huge scrims and reflectors on set.


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## paigew (Jul 25, 2015)

jamiebonline said:


> Thanks yes the one on the right is especially nice. It seems you are perhaps slightly underexposing? I need to experiment more. Do you reduce contrast in post also?



I'm not underexposing  here is a before and after. I actually add contrast.


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## dcbear78 (Jul 26, 2015)

tirediron said:


> Then buy one!  At a time when you can buy a basic, manual flash & triggers for <$75, that's really a pretty lame excuse.  NOTHING tames sunlight like more light.



This!!!

I've recently taken on learning the art of flash photography. And it is amazing what can be done when you control light.

Here is a shot taken at 2pm in the strong northern Australian sun (equivalent to approx Miami). You can see the sunlight on the top of her head. Using a studio strobe and a softbox eliminated the harsh shadows giving a photo that doesn't look like it was shot in broad daylight.



Brittney Shenae by Crew One Photography, on Flickr

Learning manual, off camera flash techniques is such am amazing challenge, but so so rewarding!


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## paigew (Jul 26, 2015)

@dcbear78 What would you suggest doing if the op is in a situation where they want an image but don't have a flash. Or are in a situation where flash won't work (family photography/busy toddlers/beach vacation/backpacking in the mountains). Do you carry your flash set up with you at all times? I feel it is vital for a photographer to know how to use all types of light....natural, and artificial.

Sure if you are shooting an adult model flash is all fine and dandy...but try shooting an outdoor wedding, or some other fast paced (outdoor) event moving around your flash non stop just isn't practical. You need to learn how to shoot in all types of light.


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## KmH (Jul 26, 2015)

jamiebonline said:


> I had a good speedlight and triggers and softbox. But I sold them. Why? Because they were a pain in the neck to carry and set up and in the end I got flat looking images even using the softbox. Flash is after all, artificial and you can see this when you look closer at the subject in the picture. That an artificial light is illuminating them. You had to buy even more gear to do the shot you posted. And high speed synch too, no? And I imagine the setting up is not so easy. Maybe now it sounds like I am lazy! I just love to work entirely with natural light where possible and my original question was about how to use direct sun effectively.


Yep a lot of photographers today say the same things.
Light quality and direction is usually what separates a stunning photograph from a mediocre photograph.
Learning how to light to make high quality photographs does take some time, effort, and equipment.

You just need to know these 3 things:
1. There is no way to effectively use direct sunlight by itself .
2. There is no way to effectively use direct sunlight by itself.
3. There is no way to effectively use direct sunlight by itself.
Pretty much every photo you make with only direct sunlight will require sacrificing image quality in one way or another.

For portraits, open shade and a reflector is about the least equipment you can get by with.
For action (not field sports) or environmental portrait photographs at least 1 off camera hot shoe flash unit is about the least equipment you can get by with. If possible, add a scrim to your basic 1 flash unit outdoor lighting kit.

A hand held bare, diffused, or bounced hot shoe flash unit  does not look like flash if set to a lower than full power setting and held at an appropriate height and angle. Actually, a DSLR pop up flash unit _used properly_ can suffice for adding fill light in an outdoor direct lighting situation.


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## dcbear78 (Jul 26, 2015)

paigew said:


> @dcbear78 What would you suggest doing if the op is in a situation where they want an image but don't have a flash. Or are in a situation where flash won't work (family photography/busy toddlers/beach vacation/backpacking in the mountains). Do you carry your flash set up with you at all times? I feel it is vital for a photographer to know how to use all types of light....natural, and artificial.
> 
> Sure if you are shooting an adult model flash is all fine and dandy...but try shooting an outdoor wedding, or some other fast paced (outdoor) event moving around your flash non stop just isn't practical. You need to learn how to shoot in all types of light.



Absolutely... Got to work with the conditions you have. Strobes and softboxes on stands are not of any use with families etc as mentioned. I wouldn't ever contemplate using lights with kids. I do my share of natural lighting shots. Shooting raw and being able to recover shadows is so useful for this.

Personally I always have 2 speedlights on me. One TTL (Nikon SB-700) and one manual Cactus V6 plus 2 Cactus RF60 transceivers. In a constantly changing environment such as weddings, on camera TTL is very useful (although something I haven't done a lot of). And my strobes are always in the boot of my car when needed.... But most of what I do is planned ahead of time.

Personally I'm a massive fan of backlighting. It avoids the squinty look. No flash used here...



Brooke Lee Models by Crew One Photography, on Flickr


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## tirediron (Jul 26, 2015)

paigew said:


> What would you suggest doing if the op is in a situation where they want an image but don't have a flash.


They should send themselves to bed without their supper as penance for arriving at a job without the proper gear. 



paigew said:


> Or are in a situation where flash won't work (family photography/busy toddlers/beach vacation/backpacking in the mountains).


Why won't flash work in these situations?  I've used it in everyone except "beach vacation" since I've not been called on to photograph one, but I would say it would be essential for that given the nature of light on most beaches.



paigew said:


> Do you carry your flash set up with you at all times?


I do.  



paigew said:


> I feel it is vital for a photographer to know how to use *control* all types of light....natural, and artificial.


FTFY - Agree 110%.  Unfortunately MOST photographers, especially those with less experience make the assumption, "Oh, it's bright and sunny.  I can take pictures, and not worry about anything!"  



paigew said:


> Sure if you are shooting an adult model flash is all fine and dandy...but try shooting an outdoor wedding, or some other fast paced (outdoor) event moving around your flash non stop just isn't practical. You need to learn how to shoot in all types of light.


Again, I agree completely with your assertion that being able to shoot in all types of light is essential, but why do you feel that strobed light at an outdoor wedding or event is impractical?  I've shot both, and use flash for almost all of them.  Not every image, but the flash is there and ready when I want it.


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## paigew (Jul 26, 2015)

so glad I had my my flash set up when I took two kids to the children's museum alone


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## paigew (Jul 26, 2015)

tirediron said:


> paigew said:
> 
> 
> > Or are in a situation where flash won't work (family photography/busy toddlers/beach vacation/backpacking in the mountains).
> ...


I'm not saying it won't work. I am saying most people do not carry around light stands/modifiers etc when they are out living life, and taking photos. Unless you have a PLANNED shoot why would you bring all that crap with you everywhere?  I have plenty of crap with a family of four and a large dog, I leave home anything non essential.


> paigew said:
> 
> 
> > Sure if you are shooting an adult model flash is all fine and dandy...but try shooting an outdoor wedding, or some other fast paced (outdoor) event moving around your flash non stop just isn't practical. You need to learn how to shoot in all types of light.
> ...


It really comes down to WHAT your shooting, and your shooting style. I do shoot weddings and I know quite a few others in the field. I haven't seen anyone using flash during a sunny ceremony. Unless you had a ton of light stands set up everywhere you wanted and/or an assistant following around your subject(s) (that would be a lot of assistants at a wedding) then I just don't see how you would do it...it is just silly.

Just the same as it would be impractical to get really great images at a family session with a lighting set up.


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## paigew (Jul 26, 2015)

dcbear78 said:


> paigew said:
> 
> 
> > @dcbear78 What would you suggest doing if the op is in a situation where they want an image but don't have a flash. Or are in a situation where flash won't work (family photography/busy toddlers/beach vacation/backpacking in the mountains). Do you carry your flash set up with you at all times? I feel it is vital for a photographer to know how to use all types of light....natural, and artificial.
> ...



Yes!!! Perfect  Flash has its place...and it has places it doesn't belong as well


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## tirediron (Jul 26, 2015)

paigew said:


> ... I am saying most people do not carry around light stands/modifiers etc when they are out living life, and taking photos. Unless you have a PLANNED shoot why would you bring all that crap with you everywhere?  I have plenty of crap with a family of four and a large dog, I leave home anything non essential.


From the OP:  


jamiebonline said:


> ...these days i am shooting portraits a lot in very direct daytime sun.


I take that to mean that he/she is doing paid/planned work.  I wasn't referring to family happy snaps ('though if it's a decision between leaving gear at home or the family, the family stays home every time).



paigew said:


> It really comes down to shooting style when we are talking about events like wedding photography. I am a wedding photographer and I know quite a few others in the field. I haven't seen anyone using flash during a sunny ceremony. Unless you had a ton of light stands set up everywhere you wanted and/or an assistant following around your subject(s) (that would be a lot of assistants at a wedding) then I just don't see how you would do it...it is just silly.


You're right, it is all about individual style, and I I don't do a lot of weddings of any sort, but I do a LOT of event work.  A Q-Flash is a great tool for fill light at out door events, especially weddings when you have the couple covered by a gazebo or similar in bright, mid-afternoon sun.  I honestly don't know how one would deal with those shadow/exposure situations without supplemental light.  As for using a VAL, that's very common in my area; perhaps a regional stylistic difference?


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## paigew (Jul 26, 2015)

I consider my personal photography to be portrait work  Not happy family snaps 

I never schedule paid sessions in full sun...only golden hour.


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## tirediron (Jul 26, 2015)

paigew said:


> I consider my personal photography to be portrait work  Not happy family snaps
> 
> I never schedule paid sessions in full sun...only golden hour.


Fair enough - it wasn't meant as a derogatory term, simply to differentiate between paid and unpaid work.  If you miss a shot on a family vacation, chances are, only you know about and there's no angry client yelling at you.  The OP stated that, for whatever reason, golden-hour wasn't an option, so...


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## Bryston3bsst (Jul 26, 2015)

dcbear78 said:


> Personally I'm a massive fan of backlighting. It avoids the squinty look.* No flash used here..*.
> 
> 
> 
> Brooke Lee Models by Crew One Photography, on Flickr



I hope not as this one is fairly over exposed.


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## dcbear78 (Jul 26, 2015)

Bryston3bsst said:


> dcbear78 said:
> 
> 
> > Personally I'm a massive fan of backlighting. It avoids the squinty look.* No flash used here..*.
> ...


More a result of the high keyish processing choice. The sooc is exposed perfectly allowing this flexibility for stylistic choices.


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