# Studying famous photographers to better your own photography.



## jon_k (Nov 4, 2007)

Hi,

I'm interested in finding a website with a collection of many of the famous photographers work, so I can really start to consider why I like some photos and not others. The point is to get better at composition and understanding composition.

I've realized photography is about the art, not the science. I need to start learning about design elements, composition, etc. by studying great and successful photographers. I'd rather not buy a book right now, but rather online gallery's featuring famous photogs work.


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## Chris of Arabia (Nov 4, 2007)

There was a thread about this a week or so back talking about photogs who inspire people. I bookmarked a couple:

Steve McCurry

Chema Madoz

Chances are if you do a search on the last one in TPF, you'll find the thread I'm on about


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## ann (Nov 4, 2007)

there here

http://www.masters-of-photography.com/S/strand/strand_wall_street.html

there is a whole list of others besides Paul Strand.


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## Alpha (Nov 4, 2007)

There is probably far more information to be found in books than on the internet.


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## Hertz van Rental (Nov 4, 2007)

jon_k said:


> I've realized photography is about the art, not the science. I need to start learning about design elements, composition, etc. by studying great and successful photographers.



This is not something you can do with any real success on your own, I'm afraid. At least not to start with.
Design elements and composition - when viewed in isolation - appear quite simple. It's when you put them together that things get complex. And they are all bound up in the _meaning_ of the image. 
To make it even easier, the meaning is different depending on which angle you look at it from.
You should really try starting with a class. If you can't find one specifically about photography then find one about Art or Film*. They have a lot in common.
The right class will have someone who knows what they are talking about to guide you through the initial stages, and hold open discussions with the rest of the group. You will then begin to see the basics of how it works, be led on to further reading and finally be able to get more out of looking at pictures - which means you can put more _in_.


*Or one on the History of Photography.


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## Iron Flatline (Nov 4, 2007)

Max is right. A really fabulous little collection of books is by one of the great publishing houses:

Aperture - Masters Of Photography 

They're small books, but they collate the best images of the greatest photographers. They're $10 new, but you can pick them up used for around 5... which is one thing the internet is actually _good _for!


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## bellavita64 (Nov 4, 2007)

Don't you have a library card? Hint - YOU SHOULD!! I live in a fairly small city (about 30,000) and I have found tons of photography books at the local library. They are all free (as long as you get them back by the due date!). You'd be surprised what they have. I found huge thick books packed with images (fine art stuff) by all of the greats. Most of them even had some of the more avante-garde, edgy stuff too. Study them, pore over them, read all of the fine print beside them. You will learn a lot more than you will viewing them on any website. You will also be surprised how many books are available (at the library, for free) on composition and technique. And then if you find a book that truly has invaluable info in it, you can always buy a copy for reference. You might think some of the books are a little dated, but the basics of what makes a photography a great work of art are timeless.


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## JIP (Nov 4, 2007)

Um..... How about

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=PHOTOGRAPHERS

for a start......

and mabye get that liberry card and go here......

http://nrhcat.library.nrhtx.com/search/d?SEARCH=photography

That should keep you busy for the rest of your life....


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## jon_k (Nov 4, 2007)

Yeah. I'm looking for some inspiration from famous photographers, so I can attempt to acquire a vision of my own.

Many people struggle understanding the technical side of photography, but I struggle with creativity. I'm sure it'll take many years to develop a creative vision of my own. You don't learn to draw or paint overnight, and I assume nor do you create inspiring unique photographs.









> and mabye get that liberry card and go here......
> 
> http://nrhcat.library.nrhtx.com/search/d?SEARCH=photography
> 
> That should keep you busy for the rest of your life....



Sly looking up my city's public library. ;-)

I suppose grabbing a library card is the answer to knowledge. I've usually purchased all the books I want to read. Something about tight spines and new smell. But, there's many books that are out of print that have great content about photography, and I could probably fill up a few bookshelves with books related on the subject.

I'll definitely drop by the library ASAP, get a card, and start checking books out. They're building a new library as well, so that should mean more books!


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## JIP (Nov 4, 2007)

jon_k said:


> Sly looking up my city's public library. ;-)
> 
> I suppose grabbing a library card is the answer to knowledge. I've usually purchased all the books I want to read. Something about tight spines and new smell. But, there's many books that are out of print that have great content about photography, and I could probably fill up a few bookshelves with books related on the subject.
> 
> I'll definitely drop by the library ASAP, get a card, and start checking books out. They're building a new library as well, so that should mean more books!


 
Ya see I used to feel that way about books from the library but here's the thing, I am not sure about you but I personally cannot afford to just go out and buy all the books that I want to read on a particular subject so what i do is go and take out about a million of them from my local library go through all of them figure out what I want and if I really like something I will go out and buy it. Honestly it looks like your library has a system that is very similar to the one here in Pittsburgh except my library searches everone in the surrounding 50 miles as well and I just go online find what I want request it online and within a few days it is waiting at my local library down the street from my house in my name.  There is really no shame in taking advantage of a great local asset in your community.  The next time you have some trepidation on going to the library ask yourself this will Amazon, Borders, Barnes and Noble, etc..... let you take home any of there books let alone stacks of them at once without shelling out one red cent.


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## jon_k (Nov 4, 2007)

Yes the library seems like a wealth of information for free. I'll definitely be going by to pick some books up.

Here's my list of things I'm trying to increase my creativity.

* Take more pictures, of something, even if I have a hunch.  I've noticed in meetups other photographers will go with that flint of an idea, and shoot it, and decide later. Me, on the otherhand, will get an idea but pass it up and keep walking because I assume it won't come out good. That hinders creativity IMO. I need to fight the urge to 'move on'.

* Start  participating in photo assignments. I believe this can encourage creativity.

* Take more time to study the greats. This is what my intentions are for reading books.

* Shoot with a single prime on a shoot, so I can learn the lens and learn how to work with the lens to get the composition I want. I feel people easily just camp and zoom in, and a prime forces you to think more and take your time.


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## Snyder (Nov 4, 2007)

The best way I learned composition was through photography school.


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## jon_k (Nov 4, 2007)

Snyder said:


> The best way I learned composition was through photography school.



This is possible too. You didn't go to college and major in photography, you just took a single course, correct?

What type of money did you pay?


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## Hertz van Rental (Nov 4, 2007)

jon_k said:


> * Take more pictures, of something, even if I have a hunch.  I've noticed in meetups other photographers will go with that flint of an idea, and shoot it, and decide later. Me, on the otherhand, will get an idea but pass it up and keep walking because I assume it won't come out good. That hinders creativity IMO. I need to fight the urge to 'move on'.



People take pictures for two main reasons (when not doing it for money):
They take the picture because it means something to them.
They take the picture because they think they should.

If you see something but leave it it could be that you are getting beyond the stage of taking just for the sake of it - and what you have said so far would indicate this to be the case - and you are making the decision to leave it because it does not have any personal meaning.

Shooting a lot of pictures is thought to be a good thing but it isn't always.
By taking lots of pictures and going through them later to see what you have got is just relinquishing responsibility for the moment of creation.
A picture should mean something personal to you at the time of it's taking so you put more of you into it. Sorting through hundreds of shots later is just a way of leaving it up to chance.
A good photographer is one who gets the shot he wants in five frames. 
Anyone can get a good shot in 500 frames just by the law of averages.
Shoot less, think more.
When you see something that you think is worth photographing try to work out what it is about it that caught your attention and then try to capture that.
Taking pictures is actually a game of questions and answers. Not only do you question what you are taking pictures of but you also question yourself. The subject poses the question, if you like, and the picture you take is an attempt to answer it.

I'm sure there are others who will disagree totally with me on all of this. But then, I have no idea what I am talking about


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## Iron Flatline (Nov 4, 2007)

But props given for growing out of the equipment stage. Photography is a lot more fun once you start thinking about it creatively, not technically.


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## jon_k (Nov 5, 2007)

Iron Flatline said:


> But props given for growing out of the equipment stage. Photography is a lot more fun once you start thinking about it creatively, not technically.



This is embarrassing and I feel you've caught me with my pants down! You must read people pretty well? After thinking about what you said, you cannot be any further from the truth.

Up until this point, this week even, it has been all about gear and technical aspects of photography to me. All the while, I've been preaching "it's not the equipment, its your technique" to posters on forums. But, obviously it was just a phrase I was regurgitating, as I didn't believe it myself to the full extent. Sure, I enjoyed taking photographs and even made some pretty good ones, but something has always been lacking in my photographs, and so where I lacked, I made up for in equipment purchases.

I wasn't buying equipment because I thought it would take good photos for me, but I thought it would help me take better quality photos. Any tool is useless without purpose, direction, or motivation. A fisheye can create barrel distortion, but if you can't make a photograph that has impact and stands on its own, it won't hold water at all. A blind man can't take good photographs no matter how good his gear is.

I feel I *am* evolving and I'm trying to decide where to go at this point. I'm at a crossroads but which turn do I take? I need to develop my own style, and find my own niche, and find something that I enjoy photographing as much as I enjoy the act of photography itself. I then need to take that passion and wrap my photography around it to inspire other people.

I feel by studying the "greats" photographs up and down I can determine what makes the great photographs so great. I then feel I'd be able to take some of their inspiration and technique and apply it to my own efforts. I don't want to imitate them, but I want to use them to give me a path of my own.Then I feel I can spin my own style and perspective and learn to take meaningful photographs.

This hobby is as much about equipment as it is about philosophy. Unfortunately nearly all the photo forums I've visited talk all about equipment rather than feelings, emotion, and the motivation of photography. Probably because the reasons why people take photographs are about as different and many as stars in the sky. Nobody would agree on the same motivations and purposes. We can't even agree on equipment when someone brings up a brand or manufacturer. How could we agree on form of expression?

I am evolving and I'm trying to determine my path and passion. What's my end goal in photography? I'm asking questions like _"Why do we take photos at all?"_ and _"How can I effect the lives of those viewing my photo."_ and _"How can I show the viewer what I want *them* to see"_ (Up until now, I've been taking photos for me. Taking photos of what I think /I/ see.) This is philosophical points we studied in the text book in high school photography class. I hated that part. I just wanted to snap some shots and get to play in the darkroom. I don't feel this costly mis happen path was a mistake. It was probably a requirement for me to ever come to this point.

Too bad I can't get answers from anyone on this forum to _these_ questions. They are questions only myself can answer. The fact I'm even asking them *must* be worth something and shows that I might have some sign of improving. Photographs with purpose have impact. Photographs with impact have purpose. Doesn't that sound about right? I think I'll find my answers, but it won't be as easy as searching the forum anymore. All I need to do is make my photographs have impact and purpose. Easier said then done.

Has anyone come to this level of thought?

I felt like I understood photography pretty well a week ago. Now I feel like I've only scratched the surface. Imagination is more important than knowledge... said Albert, and he was undoubtedly right.


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## Chris of Arabia (Nov 5, 2007)

I've been taking photographs on and off for 26 years now. After reading that, I think the lightbulb just went on...


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## deanimator (Nov 5, 2007)

Two suggestions:

1) Absolutely do not overlook technical know-how

2) Read Roland Barthes "Camera Lucida"


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## Hertz van Rental (Nov 5, 2007)

jon_k said:


> I feel by studying the "greats" photographs up and down I can determine what makes the great photographs so great. I then feel I'd be able to take some of their inspiration and technique and apply it to my own efforts.



This is no different from your attempts to make up for your shortcomings by buying equipment. You're still looking for the 'quick fix'.
If merely studying the work of past greats could improve you then every Art historian would be a greater artist than Picasso.
It can teach you how to look at pictures and therefore how to look at a things you photograph, but that's as far as it goes. Everything else has to come from within and until you can look inwards you won't find what you want.


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## Helen B (Nov 5, 2007)

I often learn more from looking at photographs that I initially dislike in some way. There may be something that mildly annoys me. When I look at a photograph I try to imagine what mental process the photographer might have had when the photograph was made. Sometimes I find that as I get further into a photograph I change my opinion about the photographer's work. Most of the time there is nothing to get in to - 'rather thin', as one of my friends often says.

Hamish Fulton's work did not appeal to me at first. 'This is pretentious. Why can't the guy just go on a walk, for goodness sake?' I became more and more intrigued by his work, and the whole process of trying to get into his work was very inspiring for me. It's not pretentious when there really is something there.

The same for Thomas Joshua Cooper. At first I found his captions rather unneccessary, but very quickly began to see more.

I started taking and developing pictures when I was ten or eleven. Then it was a mixture of a simple fascination for the magical process, and an equally simple desire to record the visual details of my life. I did not look upon it as expression - I painted and made sculptures for that. When I was about seventeen my cousin gave me a magazine she thought I might like: _Creative Camera_. It was a really bad name, with misleading connotations, by the way.

It had the work of Raymond Moore in it. Holy smoke. That's what photography can do? Nothing else can do that. Nothing else can show the quiet poetry of the everyday. I had been so close and so far.

Best,
Helen
PS Why can't a blind person take good photographs? I disagree with you on that, I think that they can.


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## Iron Flatline (Nov 5, 2007)

jon_k, I struggle with this all the time. Starting these conversations on the internet is always uncomfortable, not the least of which are the many people without a real opinion or input who feel like chiming in anyway... But that's not the topic right now.

The whole process spirals. There comes a point where you have a very specific way you want to shoot and to express yourself... and then you grow tired of that. They ARE philosophical questions, don't be afraid to ask them. And if you get lucky you'll find yourself in conversation with someone who understands AND has the space to explore it with you. 

Hertz is right in part, as he suggests that it always comes from within. But I find looking at other's work highly relevant, informative, and rewarding. It very much has allowed me to define my goals. By studying others I've found work that I greatly admire, but have no interest in emulating - like Simen Johan or Ruud Van Empel. Other work has really inspired me, and has helped me understand what gets _ME _excited. Gary Winogrand and John Szarkowski are right up there for me. And yes, there's work I definitely need to go back to if I am to follow Helen_B's example - I don't get it, it makes me uncomfortable, I find it pointless... but these people are highly respected. Lee Friedlander - that shot of Times Square, or the series out of the car window in Vegas just makes me SO MAD... come _ON_, get out of the f*ing car... God knows he keeps my eye moving between all the different focal plains though. But a lot of his other work is why I shoot what I shoot. 

But to get even more esoteric, it's not just photography itself, of course. There's music that I hear and books that I read that evoke a certain mood, and I think I know what that mood is, and I want to capture it. And it's so God-Damn _elusive_! 

Anyway... the bad news is that you'll probably never get it perfectly right (esp. since the target moves) but he good news is that it gives you something to do between shopping for Nikes and waiting for Hale-Bopp to come back around.


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## JerryPH (Nov 5, 2007)

Personal edification, no matter what area it comes from has a very similar aspect. We learn, we grow, after a while we think we know and once we reach a point that we really *do* know... we realize how little we know.

Growing up as a child prodigy in music, I lived through something like this.  As a world class martial arts athelete in my middle years, I went through this again.  As a man striving to better myself as a simple and humble human being, I strive for that on a daily basis.  The theme is a very common and recurring one.  Improvement through personal edification... pushing the boundaries and reaching out.

Bruce Lee once said (I paraphrase):
"When I started out, a punch was a punch and a kick was a kick. As I learned more, I grew to realize that a punch was more than a punch and a kick, more than a kick. Now at the peak of my education, I have come to an epipahny... a punch is just a punch, and a kick is merely a kick".

Once you come to the grips of knowing where you want to go, you will often times find that the journey is the important part, not the destination. In terms of this hobby, doing what you love is what brings you the real pleasure... not the final aspect of looking at one picture and realizing that it is the summit of everything you ever sought in photography. 

My personal questions are not as deep nor profound as yours, I still have a lot to learn, but that doesn't mean that I don't enjoy it any less than anyone else here. 

Come to think of it... that 30mm F/1.4 coming this week is sure going to help put a smile on my face!


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## bellavita64 (Nov 5, 2007)

jon_k, glad you are going to give the library a chance! I think you will find it a great resource. Actually you are the ying to my yang. I thrive on the creativitiy side of photography and fall all over myself trying to figure out the technical end. I think that is one of the great things about this forum. We all have strengths and weaknesses in different areas, so we can all help each other out and provide encouragement. Yeah!!


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## jon_k (Nov 6, 2007)

bellavita64 said:


> jon_k, glad you are going to give the library a chance! I think you will find it a great resource.



I haven't been to the library since I was a child. The resource is free though, and for the amount of studying and reading I'll be doing, it'll be necessary  unless I want to use my money that could be spent on camera equipment. Though I'm going to stave off any more camera purchases until I make progress in the creative department. I need to learn to use all these lenses I have. I've got MANY more lenses then I have listed in my signature.



> Actually you are the ying to my yang. I thrive on the creativitiy side of photography and fall all over myself trying to figure out the technical end.



You yearn for my knowledge, I yearn for your creativity.

Lucky thing we can both, in time, learn or develop what we're lacking. I've got a creative side buried somewhere in my head.



> I think that is one of the great things about this forum. We all have strengths and weaknesses in different areas, so we can all help each other out and provide encouragement. Yeah!!


Yep. I do like the support these forums can bring!


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## _SnapShot_ (Nov 6, 2007)

It takes both, and much more. You can't have one without the other. If either is lacking the photo suffers. You are trying to solve a complex problem with a simple solution.


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## Alpha (Nov 6, 2007)

Sometimes I study famous photographers and then decide that I don't like them. I did that with Avedon. His printing (and later, his instructions to the printer) were fantastic, but I just felt like his photos were too restless.


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