# How do I get this depth of field with strobes?



## whereyoubegin (Aug 6, 2012)

Hello everyone! I just recently purchased my first strobes/speedlite (AB800/Large Softbox & Canon EX580/umbrella). I'm looking to get shallow depth of field while using my lights and my either my 28mm 1.8 or my 50mm 1.8.

I've used strobes only about 3 times before and have been stuck shooting at around f/8-f/16, which is fine, but I'm ready to do some softer looking portraits/headshots. I've read about ND filters helping out, but still haven't seen any examples similar to this with such softness on the hair. Also, I'm not sure what type of ND filter to buy.

I'm looking to do something similar to this photo of Adam Yauch.

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...o-i-get-depth-field-strobes-yauch-620x768.jpg

Can you guys please help out? Thanks so much!



*Image removed IAW TPF Copyright Requirements.  Please refer to the FAQ for more information.*


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## 2WheelPhoto (Aug 6, 2012)

One way is decrease the amount of light with either the light setting or distance from light to subject. (allowing you to open your aperture blades wider).

Another is separate the subject from the background with a great distance and shoot close to your subject.


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## o hey tyler (Aug 6, 2012)

You can just turn the AB800 and 580EX down...? You don't need ND filters to shoot with a wider aperture. Monolights and speedlights have variable power.


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## whereyoubegin (Aug 6, 2012)

Thanks 2Wheel. I've tried taking my Alien Bees B800 all the way down, but when i got to 1.8, the photo is still too bright.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Aug 6, 2012)

whereyoubegin said:


> Thanks 2Wheel. I've tried taking my Alien Bees B800 all the way down, but when i got to 1.8, the photo is still too bright.



Yeah, back the light up further.  Also you can use a modifier to soak some light.  1.8 is greedy though.....


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## whereyoubegin (Aug 6, 2012)

I'm currently using a 32x40" softbox.


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## o hey tyler (Aug 6, 2012)

I would strongly suggest you not shoot at f/1.8.


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## whereyoubegin (Aug 6, 2012)

Could you please elaborate? I'm looking for as much info and help as possible.


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## davisphotos (Aug 6, 2012)

Longer lens is a good first step to limiting your DOF, I use my 85mm f1.8, 100mm f2.8 or 70-200 f2.8, usually at f2.8-f4. Pretty much all strobes have variable controls, so if you're at ISO 100, you should b e able to shoot at a pretty wide aperture.


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## whereyoubegin (Aug 6, 2012)

Thanks dude. very helpful. Does this include crop sensor camera's or just full frame? I've been told my 50mm is comprable to an 85 with my crop factor.


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## o hey tyler (Aug 6, 2012)

whereyoubegin said:
			
		

> Could you please elaborate? I'm looking for as much info and help as possible.



Shooting a lens wide open is not good for image sharpness at all. I stop down to f2 on my primes at least.


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## whereyoubegin (Aug 6, 2012)

f/2 is fine. even f2.8 is good. I was just using 1.8 as a generalization for how far I might want to go in the future. I'm more here to talk about shallow depth of field with strobes instead of finding lens' sweet spots.


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## o hey tyler (Aug 6, 2012)

whereyoubegin said:
			
		

> f/2 is fine. even f2.8 is good. I was just using 1.8 as a generalization for how far I might want to go in the future. I'm more here to talk about shallow depth of field with strobes instead of finding lens' sweet spots.



You can shoot at f/2.2 and still use your setup.


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## jamesbjenkins (Aug 6, 2012)

In studio, the apparent DoF has just as much to do with focal length and distance to your subject as is does with aperture setting.

On full frame, my 70-200 f/2.8 is usually my go-to lens, since it gives me so much freedom to create whatever look I'm going for. I've found that on half body portraits or headshots, a focal length of around 135mm and a subject/camera distance of about 8 feet for portrait and less for headshot seems to work really well.

YMMV...


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## KmH (Aug 6, 2012)

Yep! Focus point distance, and how far from the background you subject is is often more important than the lens aperture used.

Another way to get background separation that is often superior to a shallow DoF when using strobed light, is to under expose the ambient light with the shutter speed. Lens aperture and strobed light power setting control the strobed light exposure.

I would recommend stopping any f/1.8 or faster lens down more like 2 stops to regain focus sharpness. f/1.8 to f/3.5 is 2 stops.


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## Tony S (Aug 7, 2012)

I didn't see it mentioned, but also make sure your ISO setting is low so you can open up more for a shallow dof.


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## Robin Usagani (Aug 7, 2012)

I don't see a sample but if it is outdoor with quite a bit of ambient light you need an ND filter.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Aug 7, 2012)

Schwettylens said:


> I don't see a sample but if it is outdoor with quite a bit of ambient light you need an ND filter.



Thats works, old school and a hassle when I tried it.  Pocketwizards will allow shutter speeds so fast with my manual studio mono lights/ pocket strobes you wouldn't believe it. Ambient?  I can almost make a bright day black heh. Put a subject in the shade at noon, scorching FL bright sun behind her facing, and pick your ambient level. The shutter speed is not limited.

PocketWizard® - HyperSync


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## amolitor (Aug 7, 2012)

You can just tape over part of your strobes, too. You'll have to fiddle with it, it's surprising how much light finds a way out even when you have half of the business end taped over. Just be sure to use gaffer's tape, or get the tape off quickly, otherwise your strobes get all covered with tacky crap. Duct tape is bad. Do not ask me how I know this, please.

You'll need a flash meter, or to just fiddle with exposure, to get it right at this point, since none of the electronics will be even able to hazard a guess as to how much light's coming out.

Also, watch the white balance when you're using hacked-together light modifiers like this (or shoot B&W, like me!)


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## Buckster (Aug 7, 2012)

Another alternative: Add diffuser material to your softboxes:

Amazon.com: 62'' Wide Nylon Rip Stop White Fabric By The Yard: Arts, Crafts & Sewing


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## Village Idiot (Aug 8, 2012)

An ND filter would be the easiest solution that wouldn't affect light quality. If you pull a light back you're making your source smaller, which will create harsher shadows. An ND filter just cuts the light coming into the camera.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Aug 8, 2012)

Village Idiot said:


> An ND filter would be the easiest solution that wouldn't affect light quality. If you pull a light back you're making your source smaller, which will create harsher shadows. An ND filter just cuts the light coming into the camera.



Not for me. I've screwed NV's on, but much simpler for my monolights just to go to a faster shutter.  A click of the dial =)

PocketWizard® - HyperSync


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## Derrel (Aug 8, 2012)

Village Idiot said:


> An ND filter would be the easiest solution that wouldn't affect light quality. If you pull a light back you're making your source smaller, which will create harsher shadows. An ND filter just cuts the light coming into the camera.



When you put a blocker over the flash head, like a bit of gaffer's tape, or some cinefoil (or just store-brand, generic aluminum foil...whatever), it really does not serve to make the light "smaller" in any meaningful way....if that were the case, then a speedlight would look like utter crap, whereas a BIG, LONG Speedotron 200-series unit's flash tube would be super-soft, since the flash tube area is like 10x greater than the area of the front Fresnel lens of a speedlight....but that isn't the case now, is it...


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## Robin Usagani (Aug 8, 2012)

2WheelPhoto said:


> Village Idiot said:
> 
> 
> > An ND filter would be the easiest solution that wouldn't affect light quality. If you pull a light back you're making your source smaller, which will create harsher shadows. An ND filter just cuts the light coming into the camera.
> ...



You are killing your battery and your flash power will not be as powerful.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Aug 8, 2012)

Schwettylens said:


> 2WheelPhoto said:
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> > Village Idiot said:
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WRONG.  This does not even use a speedlight, nor TTL, nor reflashes anything.

That is wrong on so many levels

Welcome to 2012 and hyper*SYNC* (Pocketwizards technology adjusting a camera shutter to sync with a single flash shot)  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Although it will work with speedlights in manual mode too, I use monolights. especially in bright sun background =)


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## Robin Usagani (Aug 8, 2012)

2WheelPhoto said:


> Schwettylens said:
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You said you like using FP/HSS mode.  That kills your battery quick.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Aug 8, 2012)

Schwettylens said:


> 2WheelPhoto said:
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NO SIR I said using pocketwizards hypersync. Not even close to that crazy technology Nikon and canon use for fast shutter


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## 2WheelPhoto (Aug 8, 2012)

hypersync - the pocketwizard on the camera is CALIBRATED (by you) to trigger the light at a precise time, allowing a superfast shutter sync.  monolight or speed light recieves trigger at precise time and fires once.  It works amazingly well =)

takes me about 5 minutes to play with calibration until my shutter is warp speed with any light I've tried thus far.  Took me about 10 minutes to figure out the pocketwizard software utility on the computer the first time I did it though


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## Robin Usagani (Aug 8, 2012)

2WheelPhoto said:


> hypersync - the pocketwizard on the camera is CALIBRATED (by you) to trigger the light at a precise time, allowing a superfast shutter sync.  monolight or speed light recieves trigger at precise time and fires once.  It works amazingly well =)
> 
> takes me about 5 minutes to play with calibration until my shutter is warp speed with any light I've tried thus far.  Took me about 10 minutes to figure out the pocketwizard software utility on the computer the first time I did it though




But it still shoots the flash with pulses.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Aug 8, 2012)

MONOLIGHTS and old VIVITAR manual strobes lights DO NOT "burst or pulse". They aren't even capable.  The pocketwizards trigger the flash at the precise moment in time.  Dude you are out there on this one. WAYYYYYYYYYYY out there =)

No extra battery drain (or AC on monolights heh)


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## ghache (Aug 8, 2012)

Neutral density filters here. Cutting 3-4 stop of ambient light during the day is not a bad thing. with a 4 stop, i can usually shoot at F2.8 with my primes during bright days.


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## Robin Usagani (Aug 8, 2012)

2WheelPhoto said:


> MONOLIGHTS and old VIVITAR manual strobes lights DO NOT "burst or pulse". They aren't even capable.  The pocketwizards trigger the flash at the precise moment in time.  Dude you are out there on this one. WAYYYYYYYYYYY out there =)
> 
> No extra battery drain (or AC on monolights heh)



STRAIGHT from the website.. not sure why you are arguing.  It is the only way to shoot over your sync speed.

"HyperSync is simply the ControlTL® system&#8217;s unique ability to adjust the timing of the flash burst so that you can use as much of the light output as possible as the shutter opening passes over your sensor. "


did you see the word burst there?  You are wayyy out there


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## Robin Usagani (Aug 8, 2012)

Yes, your vivitar manual strobe can burst if the trigger burst.  Hell, I can burst it with my thumb.  Just press it repeatedly.


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## Mach0 (Aug 8, 2012)

Schwettylens said:
			
		

> Yes, your vivitar manual strobe can burst if the trigger burst.  Hell, I can burst it with my thumb.  Just press it repeatedly.



I think it's meant that it will control your flash firing at a certain time. I do the same with mine and it doesn't pulse. I've actually tried them and compared it. I like the ability to enable to cameras HSS or auto FP and use full manual pops from the flash. It's much stronger. The trick is that you need full power flash. The full power flash duration is longer and can cover the the frame.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Aug 8, 2012)

Schwettylens said:


> 2WheelPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > MONOLIGHTS and old VIVITAR manual strobes lights DO NOT "burst or pulse". They aren't even capable.  The pocketwizards trigger the flash at the precise moment in time.  Dude you are out there on this one. WAYYYYYYYYYYY out there =)
> ...



Timing of THE BURST.  As in ONE burst (not pulsing).  Scwetty, we use this technology with old monolights and old VIVITARS (and new speedlights in MANUAL), how in the $#$% do you think this causes them to use more battery or PULSE???  You're silly bro =)


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## amolitor (Aug 8, 2012)

2WheelPhoto seems to be pretty unclear about how curtain shutters work, or is somehow using words in ways that I do not understand at all.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Aug 8, 2012)

Mach0 said:


> Schwettylens said:
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RIGHT!!!!!  Schwetty lost his mind. perhaps I should show him what happens on a monolight or old speedlight with no new technology. That Nikon/canon "more battery use", less light due to pulsing" is hy some of us pay extra for the best!  Scwetty, hang in there brutha-man =)

Now on side note, pocketwizards will relay the Nikon/Canon sync too, but only an idget would use that mode with a PW because of pulsing and battery drain haha


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## 2WheelPhoto (Aug 8, 2012)

amolitor said:


> 2WheelPhoto seems to be pretty unclear about how curtain shutters work, or is somehow using words in ways that I do not understand at all.



Dude, with no sync on  a manual strobe I can get shutter 250th max.  With the same manual studio light (and after I have calibrated) the pocket wizard to the *ONE burst*, I can get speeds of up to 1/2000th without shutter curtain crap in the frame.  What is there to know?

man you and scwetty are ON IT haha


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## amolitor (Aug 8, 2012)

HyperSync appears to have a mode where it'll use the "long tail" after the peak to provide "continuous light" for the period of time the shutters are in motion, at least for some strobes. They appear to have built a programmable set of delays and crud that will deploy one of 2 or 3 different techniques to give you continuous lighting, of a sort, for whatever period the shutter is open, depending on what strobe, what camera, and what settings are in play.

The long tail is probably what it's rolling out for old Vivitar strobes:

It triggers the flash before the shutter opens, slightly, and then while the strobe is still glowing but after the peak is gone, the shutter moves. It's a bit hinky, put it'll provide some lighting apparently for quite high shutter speeds. Even for people who don't understand how any of it works, but can be insulting to people who do.


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## amolitor (Aug 8, 2012)

Also, buying a bunch of Pocket Wizard kit to solve this problem is just about the most expensive and least convenient solution proposed yet. ND filters and light modifiers on the strobes are somewhere between free and cheap, and don't require a lot of calibration.

Not to say the PW stuff isn't valuable, it's just not a kind of spendy point solution.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Aug 8, 2012)

YOU GOT IT!

Dude, setting my shutter is warp speed outdoors compared to me screwing around with my old ND filters. And I use pocketwizards as remote triggers anyway, only the best!  I didn't buy them for this fast shutter junk, its just another great feature.


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## o hey tyler (Aug 8, 2012)

amolitor said:


> HyperSync appears to have a mode where it'll use the "long tail" after the peak to provide "continuous light" for the period of time the shutters are in motion, at least for some strobes. They appear to have built a programmable set of delays and crud that will deploy one of 2 or 3 different techniques to give you continuous lighting, of a sort, for whatever period the shutter is open, depending on what strobe, what camera, and what settings are in play.
> 
> The long tail is probably what it's rolling out for old Vivitar strobes:
> 
> It triggers the flash before the shutter opens, slightly, and then while the strobe is still glowing but after the peak is gone, the shutter moves. It's a bit hinky, put it'll provide some lighting apparently for quite high shutter speeds. Even for people who don't understand how any of it works, but can be insulting to people who do.



How is any of the inner workings of PW's insulting?


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## 2WheelPhoto (Aug 8, 2012)

Yeah, they were wrong about what pocketwizards do and the fact they don't "DRAIN battery" and "pulse light", so now the bashing will begin


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## amolitor (Aug 8, 2012)

Yes yes, it's easy ONCE YOU HAVE them and have them set up and so on. I think we may take it as given that the OP does not have a bunch of PW kit lying around.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Aug 8, 2012)

amolitor said:


> Yes yes, it's easy ONCE YOU HAVE them and have them set up and so on. I think we may take it as given that the OP does not have a bunch of PW kit lying around.



Thats a different debate.  Scwetty's was more fun because he was so wrong. Thank Amolitor for describing how it works more eloquently than me too bro


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## amolitor (Aug 8, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


> How is any of the inner workings of PW's insulting?



I'm not being insulting! Ok, well, yes, yes I am.

But I wasn't referring to me. I was referring to 2WheelPhoto "You are out there" "You are silly, bro" "You are out there HA HA HA" who couldn't even be buggered to explain what the hell he or she was going on about before proceeding to the dismissals and mockery.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Aug 8, 2012)

That was after I explained it kindly a few times and replies kept coming and coming  like "battery drain" and "pulsing" and such nonsense with the PW =)


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## o hey tyler (Aug 8, 2012)

amolitor said:


> o hey tyler said:
> 
> 
> > How is any of the inner workings of PW's insulting?
> ...



You say "From time to time I will rail against technology, stupidity, and bad photography" in your blog. So if you're going to rail on technology, and stupidity, shouldn't you be pretty hard on yourself for not understanding the technology being discussed? After all, that is your "intellectual position." Gotta hold up what you believe in. 

Not trying to be a prude, but isn't that how it should work?


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## Robin Usagani (Aug 8, 2012)

OK thanks 2wheelsphoto for this conversation.  I have been reading this hypersync stuff and now my head hurts.  So it is basically along the line what amolitor is saying.  It delays the flash and shoot it right when the shutter is completely open.  It is also saying for certain strobe, the duration is a lot quicker when using lower power so you have to set it as full power.  What if you dont want to shoot at full power?  You have to close the aperture?  I dont want to do that.  I am not arguing with you.  Just trying to understand a few things.


It also said if you use speedlites, above 1/320 sec it will switch it to HSS which was my first argument.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Aug 8, 2012)

Yes sir, it delays it OR speeds it up, depending up which way it needs to sync with the one burst.  Its all good man I just was razzing you because you wouldn't look at it or check it out you just through the flag at me =)


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## amolitor (Aug 8, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


> You say "From time to time I will rail against technology, stupidity, and bad photography" in your blog. So if you're going to rail on technology, and stupidity, shouldn't you be pretty hard on yourself for not understanding the technology being discussed? After all, that is your "intellectual position." Gotta hold up what you believe in.
> 
> Not trying to be a prude, but isn't that how it should work?



Oh, you read my blog! That's lovely!

I think I was pretty generous in my interpretation. Let's see what I actually said:

  "2WheelPhoto seems to be pretty unclear about how curtain shutters work,  or is somehow using words in ways that I do not understand at all."

To be honest, I can't actually figure out if 2WheelPhoto understands ANY of the technology involved, but does seem to be able to configure the PW stuff to work. So, let's assume that he (or she) does understand how curtain shutters work. I think I get a little wiggle room on "is somehow using words in a way I do not understand at all" but ok, that was a pretty dickish way to put it.

Let's see, what did I say next. Oh! I looked up how it worked, explained it efficiently and clearly (incidently, Schwetty was half right -- you get a lot less effective flash power since you're throwing away the peak) and then pointed out that 2WheelPhoto was acting pretty jerky. I stand by all that stuff, and don't see that I'm in error anywhere. Actually, 2WheelPhoto seems to have about admitted that he (or she) was being a bit jerky, having gotten frustrated with his (or her) inability to communicate with Schwetty (see earlier remark: "or is somehow using words in ways that I do not understand at all.").

So, let's see. Failure to understand the technology being discussed.. uh, well. True, until I looked it up. Same as anything? Right?

I'm sorry, what exactly IS your point? I will take my answer off the air, since this isn't gonna go anywhere good.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Aug 8, 2012)

C'mon man its all good geez its the Internetz =)

"Schwetty was half right -- you get a lot less effective flash power since you're throwing away the peak)"

I haven't ever ever had that prob per my light meter but if I do I'll simply up the monolight pow-ah!


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## o hey tyler (Aug 8, 2012)

amolitor said:


> o hey tyler said:
> 
> 
> > You say "From time to time I will rail against technology, stupidity, and bad photography" in your blog. So if you're going to rail on technology, and stupidity, shouldn't you be pretty hard on yourself for not understanding the technology being discussed? After all, that is your "intellectual position." Gotta hold up what you believe in.
> ...



Don't flatter yourself. That's about as far as I got with your otherwise unreadable blog. 

I am sincerely sorry that I can't deal with the severe amount of elitism/know-it-all attitude and the persona you project on the internet, so I spent a very short time there after reading your "intellectual standpoint." 

Glad we got the whole hypersync thing figured out though. Whoop! Good job to all of those involved. :thumbup:


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## amolitor (Aug 8, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


> I am sincerely sorry that I can't deal with the severe amount of elitism/know-it-all attitude and the persona you project on the internet, so I spent a very short time there after reading your "intellectual standpoint."



Well, I appreciate you stopping by anyways, and I've no objection to you calling me out if I push your buttons. I'm not doing it to piss you off, but I get that sometimes people get pissed off. We're grownups, right?


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## Derrel (Aug 8, 2012)

amolitor said:


> 2WheelPhoto seems to be pretty unclear about how curtain shutters work, or is somehow using words in ways that I do not understand at all.



Sorry, but 2Wheel is actually talking about a relatively NEW technology that allows SINGLE-POP electronic flash to be synchronized at shutter speeds that are above the "normal" manufacturer's synch speeds, on a variety of cameras; this technology is called *HyperSync,* and was invented by the fine folks who make the PocketWizard line of products.

Additionally, it is possible to synchronize monolight flashes, like say, the Paul C. Buff ALine Bee units, at REALLY high speeds, like up to 1/4000, by using some cameras, like the Nikon D40, as one SPECIFIC Example, with very,very little loss in effective flash guide number. Mr. Buff **himself** demonstrated this some years back on his former lighting/techniques/hardware discussion forum which he used to maintain on the Buff web site, until discussion got out of hand and he closed it down. (The discussion board was later brought BACK on-line, but only as a read-only ARCHIVE...not sure of its current status).

Seems like a couple people here owe 2WheelPhoto a bit of an apology...oh, wait, one of the posters figured it out...


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## Derrel (Aug 8, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


> amolitor said:
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Dude....you just pwnd the guy...


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## Robin Usagani (Aug 8, 2012)

2WheelPhoto said:


> C'mon man its all good geez its the Internetz =)
> 
> "Schwetty was half right -- you get a lot less effective flash power since you're throwing away the peak)"
> 
> I haven't ever ever had that prob per my light meter but if I do I'll simply up the monolight pow-ah!



I will take half right :thumbup:.  I am still not following though.  If I read it correctly it will only HyperSYNC with a speedlite up to 1/320.  If you go faster, it will be in HSS/FP mode?

Also most monolight you need to set it at FULL power.  What if full power is too much?  You have to use smaller aperture?  What if you want shallow DOF?  If you constantly shoot it at full power, wouldnt you drain the battery?

I think I am missing something here... explain it to me.

http://wiki.pocketwizard.com/index.php?title=HyperSync


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## 2WheelPhoto (Aug 8, 2012)

Schwettylens said:


> 2WheelPhoto said:
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> > C'mon man its all good geez its the Internetz =)
> ...



Wrong dead wrong on full power, wrong on /320


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## 2WheelPhoto (Aug 8, 2012)

dude if I run my 1200 watt elinchron on full I'll nuke a whole state =)


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## Mach0 (Aug 8, 2012)

2WheelPhoto said:
			
		

> Wrong dead wrong on full power, wrong on /320





			
				2WheelPhoto said:
			
		

> dude if I run my 1200 watt elinchron on full I'll nuke a whole state =)



I have only used speed lights. I would like more information on the mono light subject lol.


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## Robin Usagani (Aug 8, 2012)

2WheelPhoto said:


> Schwettylens said:
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I am not reading correctly then LOL.  I cant follow that page.


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## Robin Usagani (Aug 8, 2012)

"[h=3]Remote FlexTT5 with Speedlite in the Top Shoe[/h]With the default settings, you can sync at any shutter speed. HyperSync Automation will be used only at 1/320th with Speedlites, after which the transmitting ControlTL radio will switch to using High Speed Sync isntead. On the transmitting radio, adjust the "HSS/FP Begins At (HyperSync Ends)" control under the HyperSync/HSS Tabto specify the shutter speed at which HyperSync timings are no logner used and High Speed Sync/FP Sync is engaged.
Transmitter-side Automated HyperSync will be used at all shutter speeds faster than x-sync until High Speed Sync is engaged. Receiver-side HyperSync automation is not currently supported for Canon Speedlites, as they do not communicate their power level through the hot shoe. For full HyperSync Automation with Speedlites, their power levels must be controlled via a Speedlite in Master Mode or AC3 ZoneController at camera position."


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## 2WheelPhoto (Aug 8, 2012)

i've never used a speedlite/or anything mounted to a PW top shoe, nor that model PW as a reciever. but in that specific scenario its prob right

they way to mount speedlight or monolight on the PWII is with a chord, and none of those limitations apply


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## amolitor (Aug 8, 2012)

I think PW spent some time actually characterizing the shape of the light output from various strobes, so their software helps with the setup a bunch. Using shutter speeds that are slow, but faster than the actual sync speed, is where things are likely to get dicey.

Paul C. Buff FORUM Archive &bull; View topic - Flash Duration Explained

shows some stuff about the curve. He suggests that there is "useful light" available for 1/300th of a second, as a typical number.

So if you sync at 1/500th or whatever, then the shutter-open time is less than the total flash duration. If you clip off the peak, then it's "sort of" even for the right hand half of the graph, say. Say, from where t.5 ends to where t.1 ends, which is about 1/500th, he suggests, as a reasonable value.

You're using some "sufficiently flat" part of the light output curve, so fake a steady light source for the whole shutter-open time.

Does that help at all?

EDIT: I seems like you could theoretically adjust the effective power by using more or less delay, using different sections of the output curve. You leave the flash head on full power, always, to give you the maximum length of useful curve, and then synchronize the shutter to the flash (effectively -- you actually do it the other way around, but I find it's easier to think of it as 'the shutter opens HERE on the flash output curve')


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## 2WheelPhoto (Aug 8, 2012)

amolitor said:


> I think PW spent some time actually characterizing the shape of the light output from various strobes, so their software helps with the setup a bunch. Using shutter speeds that are slow, but faster than the actual sync speed, is where things are likely to get dicey.
> 
> Paul C. Buff FORUM Archive &bull; View topic - Flash Duration Explained
> 
> ...



perhaps with that strobe, I use elinchroms and profoto  and not have to worry about "lost light" as you imply. I can run the lights low power to high power to achieve the output I need. NEVER been a prob "not having light" for the shot or underexposed due to such.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Aug 8, 2012)

I will say this, I achieve faster shutter with elinchrom than profoto, but lack of light has NEVER been a problem.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Aug 8, 2012)

Mach0 said:


> 2WheelPhoto said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I use two manual vivitar 285 speedlights I use on some remote outdoor shoots, or when its a BS shoot and I take limited gear on my motorcycle.  I have great success with fast shutter using them as well.


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## Robin Usagani (Aug 8, 2012)

I will invest on something like this eventually... right now I am happy with my ghetto setup LOL.  


Learn something everyday...  it was a good argument.


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## Mach0 (Aug 8, 2012)

2WheelPhoto said:
			
		

> I use two manual vivitar 285 speedlights I use on some remote outdoor shoots, or when its a BS shoot and I take limited gear on my motorcycle.  I have great success with fast shutter using them as well.



I have two 285's as well. I need to use them more. They live in my camera bag. Lol


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## Village Idiot (Aug 10, 2012)

Derrel said:


> Village Idiot said:
> 
> 
> > An ND filter would be the easiest solution that wouldn't affect light quality. If you pull a light back you're making your source smaller, which will create harsher shadows. An ND filter just cuts the light coming into the camera.
> ...



Hard Light vs Soft Light | photomatters

Distance creates harsher shadows, not to mention fall off. If you have your lighting setup to way you want it, pulling everything back 5' for one stop can change the intended look of the photo. The link above can illustrate that for you.



2WheelPhoto said:


> Village Idiot said:
> 
> 
> > An ND filter would be the easiest solution that wouldn't affect light quality. If you pull a light back you're making your source smaller, which will create harsher shadows. An ND filter just cuts the light coming into the camera.
> ...



The PW Hypersync tech has limitations with some users reporting that they can't make it much past 1/250 with certain full frame cameras before the band occurs. Not to mention, if you're using a 6 stop ND to cut light to be able to shoot at 1/200, ISO 100, and f/2.8, your PW is going to have to let you shoot at 1/6,400 when you were originally shooting at 1/200, ISO 100, and f/16. That's not really achievable.



amolitor said:


> Also, buying a bunch of Pocket Wizard kit to solve this problem is just about the most expensive and least convenient solution proposed yet. ND filters and light modifiers on the strobes are somewhere between free and cheap, and don't require a lot of calibration.
> 
> Not to say the PW stuff isn't valuable, it's just not a kind of spendy point solution.



PW's site says you only need one Hypersync enabled transmitter. The PW mini should work well enough. After all, it's just a timing in the firing signal that allows this and not something that's also done on the receiver's end.


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