# more than one person...who to focus?



## paigew (Apr 5, 2012)

If I am shooting more than one person is it best to put the focus point on the person farthest away or closest? Obviously the aperture value would be small enough to get both in focus. But who gets the 'best' focus? Should I still try to get the afp on at least one person's eyes?


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## KmH (Apr 5, 2012)

You need *both* peoples eyes sharply in focus.

To do that you have to use sufficient DoF (depth-of-field).

DoF isn't only about the lens aperture. The focus point distance, lens focal length, and focus point to background distance also have to be managed by the photographer.


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## paigew (Apr 5, 2012)

Thanks Keith, but isn't it true that the SHARPEST point of focus is where the actual 'point' falls? That is basically what I am asking...where do I put the point?


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## fokker (Apr 5, 2012)

It is my understanding that if you focus on the closest person, the furthest person will be more in focus than if you did the other way around. I could be wrong about that though...


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## KmH (Apr 5, 2012)

Yes. There is only 1 point, it's actually a plane that is roughly parallel to the image sensor, which is why DoF has to be sufficiently deep. You also have to consider that the DoF distribution usually isn't 50/50 in front of, and behind the point of focus.
As a general rule, the DoF distribution is such it is deeper behind the point of focus.

The point of focus you wil need to use will depend on the set up for the shot. No one here can tell you where to put the point of focus without an example of the shot set up.


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## MReid (Apr 5, 2012)

It won't be the same every time, depends on the subject etc etc.
Generally if you want them all in focus, try to line them up so they are approximately in the same focal plane. focus on the middle distance one.
The depth of field will vary depending on how close you are to the subjects, the mm of the lens, and the aperture.
Someone will come on here and say that the depth of field is deeper behind the focus point than it is in front of the focus point....that may be true in a perfect world.....here in the real world where we all live, the focus plane and actual focus point will vary between lenses and cameras.

Speaking from my own experience, I never shoot above f4 and usually shoot at 1.8 or 2.8 so I naturally maneuver myself and my subjects to be in the same focal plane, as much a possible.
In a pinch or if you are in a hurry focus on the most important person that you want to be in focus.


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## jake337 (Apr 5, 2012)

Try to keep their eyes on a parallel plane.  Or use a tilt shift lens to tilt the plane of focus.


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## analog.universe (Apr 5, 2012)

You will get 1/3 of your field in front of the focus point, and 2/3 behind.  Unless people are running around or something, I prefer to manual focus my shots, and I just place the focus plane 1/3 the way from the near person to the far person.  If I was autofocusing, I'd probably focus on the nearest person, and then manually nudge the plane back (if your lens permits manual focusing in auto mode).


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## paigew (Apr 5, 2012)

Thanks for all responses! Since I mainly shoot my kids they are NEVER 'set up' and I am always running around after them. I usually am toggling between af points.


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## Big Mike (Apr 5, 2012)

You might also check out a DOF calculator .


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## paigew (Apr 5, 2012)

thanks mike! so what person would you place the focus point on? the middle? or does that not matter?


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## MReid (Apr 5, 2012)

If people are moving around, track the person you most want in focus. 
Do you understand the charts Mike put up? Look at them closely, they explain it well.


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## paigew (Apr 5, 2012)

Yes I think I understand DOF pretty well. I have seen these charts before. I know that if you use dof correctly both people will be in focus BUT my main question was where to place the point. I suppose in the long run it doesn't really matter that much if all the people are focused. Maybe I am overthinking it.


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## MReid (Apr 5, 2012)

It goes back to the shot set up each time. When I say set up I mean arrangement of subjects at the time you click.
Try to get them all in the same focal plane as much as possible and focus on the one in the middle of the depth of field....assuming your equipment is focusing and set up properly there should be more depth of field behind your focus point than in front of it.

It will also matter how you want to frame the subjects and your focus method.....generally stick with focusing in the middle frame and middle depth of field.


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## KmH (Apr 5, 2012)

analog.universe said:


> You will get 1/3 of your field in front of the focus point, and 2/3 behind.


That is only true when the point of focus is not close to the camera, or a small lens aperture is used.

A 50 mm lens on a crop body camera, set to f/4 and with the point of focus 10 feet from the image sensor will deliver 45/55, not 33/66. But change the aperture to f/16 and then it's 33/66.

An 85 mm lens, at f/4, and 10 feet to the point of focus delivers 48/52, and at f/16 delivers 44/56.

So for most portraiture, particularly where he camera is close to the subject, the DoF will be much closer to 50/50 than 33/66.


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## DiskoJoe (Apr 5, 2012)

Why has no one asked for a pic example here?


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## paigew (Apr 5, 2012)

I dont have a specific pic...but when I was shooting my daughter and niece the other day I  was wondering where to place the point. I normally go for the eyes. Here, I obviously would choose the girl looking at me but if they were both looking at me how do choose who gets the little red dot on them . Didn't realize it would be such a difficult question!


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## DiskoJoe (Apr 5, 2012)

Its not really a complicated question but people here can go overboard sometime. See here they are basically on the same plane, side by side. So you should be able to get both in focus pretty equally. This is a good way to go for family portraiture. Now if you had them staggered this would be a different story. That is when you would want to consider which to focus on or change your aperture to a longer depth of field. 

Here read this tutorial. I found it to be very useful and easy to understand. Zeltsman really knew what he was doing. 

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/articles-interest/268210-guide-classic-portraiture.html

When I do portraits of couples I like to have them side by side. Then you just focus on the face and since they are both on the same plane both faces would be in focus. 

Like this.......



sarah and david cross processed by DiskoJoe, on Flickr


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## KmH (Apr 5, 2012)

In that shot, for all intents and purposes, the 3 eyes that can be seen are the same distance from the camera. Hence it wouldn't matter which eye you focused on because all of the eyes are in the plane of sharpest focus.

You may be discovering that doing photography well is a lot more complicated than you imagined. Your original question as asked, could not be answered in any cut and dried way.

DoF, and how it affects focus, is likely the least understood fundamental photography concept among amateur photographers.


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## KmH (Apr 5, 2012)

DiskoJoe said:


> Its not really a complicated question but people here can go overboard sometime. See here they are basically on the same plane, side by side. So you should be able to get both in focus pretty equally. This is a good way to go for family portraiture. Now if you had them staggered this would be a different story. That is when you would want to consider which to focus on or change your aperture to a longer depth of field.
> 
> Here read this tutorial. I found it to be very useful and easy to understand. Zeltsman really knew what he was doing.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately side by side, and shoulders square to the camera, is a weak pose.


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## DiskoJoe (Apr 5, 2012)

KmH said:


> In that shot, for all intents and purposes, the 3 eyes that can be seen are the same distance from the camera. Hence it wouldn't matter which eye you focused on because all of the eyes are in the plane of sharpest focus.
> 
> You may be discovering that doing photography well is a lot more complicated than you imagined. Your original question as asked, could not be answered in any cut and dried way.
> 
> DoF, and how it affects focus, is likely the least understood fundamental photography concept among amateur photographers.



I think she just asked the question in a bad way. She's a beginner and needed a simple beginner answer and not to be bombarded with more technical information then she knows how to understand. You guys dont realize how much you may be scaring the piss out of poor beginners.


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## DiskoJoe (Apr 5, 2012)

KmH said:


> DiskoJoe said:
> 
> 
> > Its not really a complicated question but people here can go overboard sometime. See here they are basically on the same plane, side by side. So you should be able to get both in focus pretty equally. This is a good way to go for family portraiture. Now if you had them staggered this would be a different story. That is when you would want to consider which to focus on or change your aperture to a longer depth of field.
> ...



I expect more respect and tact from a moderator.

Plus this photo got published on the Houston Press blog
http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2011/07/june_25_--_july_1_the_week_in.php


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## paigew (Apr 5, 2012)

Thanks discjoe for your advice and for the article you provided! I will read that for sure  

So I guess the answer is if all faces/eyes are on the same plane it really does not matter what one you focus on? I tend to over think things  No need to worry about scaring me haha, I'm a tough one to intimidate. I have learned so much here and appreciate everyones help


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