# Sony to no longer sell certain sensors to other manufacturers?



## nerwin (Mar 19, 2017)

This is slightly concerning.

Sony to no longer sell certain sensors to other manufacturers? | Nikon Rumors

Cached link to the Q&A article - Sony Thailand factory tour Q&A: Mapping out the future of the interchangeable-lens camera

Not only does Nikon use Sony sensors but many other camera manufacturers also use Sony sensors. If Sony puts the end to selling their sensors to other manufactures this could be bad sign of things to come (or maybe perhaps a good sign of things to come?). 

But could this just be a BS? You know Sony is rolling in the dough from selling their sensors to other manufactures, this could hurt them too right?

There is SO MUCH drama in the camera manufacture industry, my goodness.


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## Overread (Mar 19, 2017)

Sony sunk a fortune into sensor development so that they could take a slice of the DSLR market. My guess is that they sold their sensors early on to 3rd parties to ensure that that investment wasn't wasted if their own DSLR range didn't take off as they'd hoped.

I would guess that now they are thinking that they are strong enough that they can stand on their own and that instead of having to sell their sensors to 3rd parties to recoup their investment; they can instead sell their DSLRs only. 

You also have to consider that "Sony sensors" is a thing, so knowing that Nikon, and other brands, are using "Sony sensors" means that people don't need to invest in Sony. So by pulling out the only way to get a "Sony sensor" is to buy a Sony DSLR.


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## nerwin (Mar 19, 2017)

Doesnt Nikon also use Toshiba sensors as well?


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## KmH (Mar 19, 2017)

Nikon has used Toshiba before, but Sony has long been Nikon's primary image sensor manufacturer.


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## nerwin (Mar 19, 2017)

This probably won't be good for Nikon then. Now it's got me thinking, again.


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## astroNikon (Mar 19, 2017)

That wouldn't be adviseable (nor make much sense) for several reasons:

[1] They have manufacturing contracts with other customers.  So I'm going to guess that they, at the minimum, would have to sell those sensors to those other customers until those contracts are up.  They also I would assume have contracts from their suppliers on contracted amounts.  These too would have to expire or negotiate new terms.

Don't only think Nikon.
But doesn't SONY provide the sensors for the Apple iPhone ?
Also found in some Samsung models.
(see # 3 below)

[2] Wouldn't this also affect the patents and solutions that Nikon provides SONY to create sensors ?

[3]  This would severely reduce their manufacturing output.  Which of course, lower demand (now only internal) would raise their per sensor price up and affect their per camera price.

You can probably easily guess that this would easily scuttle HALF or more of their production.

As early as a couple years ago although SONY took 40% of the sensor market they found the market much more tepid ==> https://petapixel.com/2016/01/29/sonys-image-sensor-business-hits-a-wall-sees-major-drop-in-sales/

Maybe they are outsourcing production again like they did with Fujitsu a few years back.

[4] the article has some oddities to it:
"This could be one of the reasons why Nikon has not released a new camera in the past 15 months (I do not count the D3400 and D5600)."
might as well exclude the D5 (Jan 2016), D500 (jan 2016), and rumors of the d7300 and d760 and all the other smaller than DSLR cameras released.


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## Overread (Mar 19, 2017)

It might lower sensor production, but if your sensors are known to be top rate (and lets face it sensors are king in DSLRs) then it means you can net more of the DSLR market. Instead of just sensors being bought, people are now buying your cameras.


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## cgw (Mar 19, 2017)

As mentioned above, why would Sony stop being an OEM sensor company? After all, they aren't giving them away to other camera makers. If any of this is true--and wasn't wildly misinterpreted--it  appears that Sony could be looking at a huge unforced error. Sony does have a pretty impressive record of corporate missteps.


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## smoke665 (Mar 19, 2017)

astroNikon said:


> Don't only think Nikon.



And also Pentax.


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## astroNikon (Mar 19, 2017)

I wasn't sure about this so I had to look it up.

But Sony separated the Sensors into a different autonomous company division.
==>  Sony's lucrative image sensor division is now a separate company

So .. if Sony Sensor Company stopped selling sensors to anyone but SONY, then their division would quickly go in the RED as most of their manufacturing is for other companies other than SONY.  heavy cuts in staff, manufacturing, et all.

Yes, sure SONY Cameras could gain market share for people that look at the sensor attributes.
But for those people who buy Apple iPhone for the rest of the package, SONY would loose all of those sales.  Plus I would just stick with my existing DSLRs until they found another sensor and got those up to speed.

And who ever picks up the slack .. ooh say Fujitsu who knows SONY manufacturing because they made sensors for them, could ultimately run SONY out of the sensor business.

==> Image Sensor for Industry | Sony Semiconductor Solutions Corporation

and SONY would want to get back into the SmartPhone business .. of which went belly up a few years ago if I recall.

They could also get rid of their website, stop going to exhibits, etc as they wouldn't need too.  They would only sell to internal SONY divisions.  I don't think that's gonna happen ...


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## Overread (Mar 19, 2017)

They've not actually said that they are stopping all sales; only the top end. 

This means everyone else can still buy sony sensors; just not their top end best. And to be fair even without formally announcing this its not unexpected that most companies would keep their best for their own in markets where their product competes with competition they are supplying. 

Iphones will likely still get top end sensors; but DSLRs might well not meaning that Sony can take the lead. And its not just geeky people who will notice; forums and reviews will follow the market leaders in sensor technology. They did it when Canon were best at sensors; they did it when Nikon were; they are doing it now as Sony are


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## KmH (Mar 19, 2017)

If Sony cuts off Nikon as far as image sensors, expect Nikon to cut off Sony as far as the photolithography steppers Sony needs to make image sensors.


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## astroNikon (Mar 19, 2017)

KmH said:


> If Sony cuts off Nikon as far as image sensors, expect Nikon to cut off Sony as far as the photolithography steppers Sony needs to make image sensors.


Yup, I think Canon, Nikon and ASML are the only companies with the stepper technology to make big image sensors. I couldn't recall what it was called earlier.

If SONY creates their own expect some cease and desist orders and patent infringement lawsuits.
so both Nikon and SONY would have to stop making big sensor cameras until all are cleared up.  Of course, Nikon could sue to keep supply coming until after the lawsuit is settled.


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## IamAbhishek (Mar 21, 2017)

I have worked with Nikon for years and I can assure you one thing that an OEM deciding not to provide "x" service to it's vendor, the decision is not taken overnight. Nikon stopped using SONY's sensor few years back in many of its cameras and these days most of the time I find Fujitsu or TOSHIBA sensors in D-SLRs. If SONY won't provide then there are others who can. Also note, one of the most important attribute that a professional wants in a camera is LOW LIGHT PERFORMANCE and there are many OEMs who manufacture better Low-light performing sensors than SONY.


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## Contarama (Apr 17, 2017)

New member first post.  Sony bought Toshiba's cmos stuff a while back.  Rumors at Ricoh.  Not sure if extraordinary loss last year of photolithic semiconductor unit is tied in with steppers or not.


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