# Chili con carne with props



## redbourn (Feb 3, 2016)

Many people have been very encouraging lately but suggested that I sometimes use props.

So  I tried it today.

Just ordered and arm for my tripod so I will be able to shoot straight down from next week.

Michael


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## FotosbyMike (Feb 3, 2016)

Much improvement over the first few images you have posted so far the best. Love the props makes a big difference.

I am still not a fan of all the highlights(white spots) in the soup, I like them on the tomatoes. To fix this you need to make the light source bigger to create a softer light.  

IMO focus in the soup is a little high, I would like to see down closer to the bay leafs. I would clean up the inside of the bowl a little bit from the splitter.


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## TCampbell (Feb 3, 2016)

Yes!  This is much better... white balance is looking better (things that should be "white" are white)!

Focus needed to come forward just a touch (the focus favors the back of the bowl rather than the center of it).  This is tough to do while looking through the viewfinder.  I do my food shots with the camera "tethered" to the computer so I can review the shots as I take them (and I always use manual focus only).

The tomatoes and garlic bulbs help the shot.  A very tiny saturation boost may improve it even more (use sparingly... I tell people it's like seasoning the food... a little is good, but too much ruins it.)

If you have software such as Adobe Lightroom, consider trying to the "vibrance" adjustment instead of the "saturation" adjustment.  Vibrance and Saturation do pretty much the same thing EXCEPT "vibrance" tries to protect the colors associated with skin tones.  This means it would probably give the green more of a saturation boost then the reds.  Sometimes it works better (especially when actual "skin" is visible in a shot -- such as portraits) ... but sometimes saturation (instead of vibrance) gives you a better result.

The idea of fussing over the table and food (use of props, etc.) is all part of "food styling" and sometimes there's a professional food stylist who does this (sort in the same way a person might hire an interior decorator to decorate the home... a food stylist primps up the look of the food -- both the food itself and the table setting).

I find that when you get in close to show details of the food, the area of the table that shows up in the shot gets smaller and sometimes you need to move the props a bit closer and cozy everything up.  Experiment with bringing things in tighter and evaluate the look.  Often even though things really are pulled in tight (a person in the room realize you've got this big table and everything is tightly arranged in a small area instead of nicely space out in a proper "place setting") the camera can't see the whole table... so it won't look like it's tight and cozy.

Here's an example:




Tagliatelle di Bosco by Tim Campbell, on Flickr

Everything in this shot is actually pretty close together... the wine glass is practically touching the plate.  The flowers, bread, oil, etc. are all pretty close.  Even that wine bottle is pretty close.  

But since you can't see the "whole" table, it doesn't occur to the viewer just how close everything is.

*Fussing over the shot:*

Also keep in mind that everything you see in your food photos (or any photo really) _*counts*_!

As I look at the shot, I see that the bowl is placed on what appears to be a white plastic cutting mat, and it looks a bit dirty.  That part isn't working... if you want to use a cutting surface, use a rustic looking cutting board.  Otherwise put it on a clean and neat surface.

For example, the cloth napkin you see in this shot is pristinely clean (inspect those details) and the knife was also inspected to make sure it's free of scratches, smudges, etc.   The wine glass, vase, glass bottles, etc. are all checked to make sure they are free of smudges, etc.  In your shot I'm noticing the fork looks like it has some scratches on it (inspect your forks to choose the one that will work best with the shot.)

If, when the food is plated, there any food splatter around the rim, then that's wiped off with a moist cloth to present a perfect bowl.

Even the reflections you see in the wine glass are planned.  I carry a huge black tablecloth and "A clamps" from the hardware store so that I can block windows that put reflections in undesirable places.

A food stylist will even use giant food tweezers or food forceps so they can primp the food.  We didn't do in this shot, but see those parmesan cheese shavings?   THIS dish of pasta is not THE dish of pasta that the chef made for the shot.  The original dish had the cheese shavings placed on it almost immediately as it was plated and the cheese melted into the food.  I had him pull that off, re-top the dish, let it cool slightly, and THEN place the shaved bits of cheese on the food so it would hold its form better.  Some food stylists would fuss over "which" cheese shaving has the nicest looking "curl" to it and would hand pick the shaves, and use giant tweezers to place the shavings in just the right spot.

This is what I mean by "everything counts" -- everything you can see in the shot -- even if not the feature of the shot -- still counts toward the overall look and appeal of the shot (and appeal of the food).   In a different food shoot I didn't like the walls in the background, so I grabbled a tri-fold floor-standing screen and placed that in the background (but not too close to the place setting so as to make sure it was well out of focus) and used that instead because I preferred the look and color.

Translating this back to your shot...

Fuss over the leaf-garnish (looks like basil) and try to find perfect specimens of leaves.  Fuss over the fork selection.  Lose the place mat and replace with a clean one (or nothing if the table surface looks good and just tuck in a clean cloth napkin or clean kitchen towel.)  

This newest shot of yours is looking much more inviting and appetizing!  Nice work.


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## redbourn (Feb 3, 2016)

FotosbyMike said:


> Much improvement over the first few images you have posted so far the best. Love the props makes a big difference.
> 
> I am still not a fan of all the highlights(white spots) in the soup, I like them on the tomatoes. To fix this you need to make the light source bigger to create a softer light.
> 
> IMO focus in the soup is a little high, I would like to see down closer to the bay leafs. I would clean up the inside of the bowl a little bit from the splitter.



I actually put some coins under the back of the bowl to improve the perspective and didn't notice that it moved the sauce to the front. 

My soft box is 20x20" which I would have thought was plenty big enough for food.

Maybe I'm not using it correctly?

Thanks for the input and encouragement.

Michael


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## redbourn (Feb 3, 2016)

TCampbell said:


> Yes!  This is much better... white balance is looking better (things that should be "white" are white)!
> 
> Focus needed to come forward just a touch (the focus favors the back of the bowl rather than the center of it).  This is tough to do while looking through the viewfinder.  I do my food shots with the camera "tethered" to the computer so I can review the shots as I take them (and I always use manual focus only).
> 
> ...



So much helpful info - thank you.

Only been at the photography for a few months so it's a steep incline and doing the cooking and the photos causes some split attention.

My photos, with the help that I'm getting, will improve.

Michael


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## FotosbyMike (Feb 3, 2016)

I would have to say 20x20 is small, I have a 36x48 and it can leave highlights sometimes. Even though a softbox says it is soft and it doesn't always soften the light enough, softbox help to direct the light more than soften. 

If you want a lager light source I would invest is some Rosco Diffusing Paper Search a few stands to hold it.
or some large sheets of frosted plexiglass.


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## redbourn (Feb 3, 2016)

FotosbyMike said:


> I would clean up the inside of the bowl a little bit from the splitter.



I'm a little concerned about everything looking too perfect. I once read that if the viewer sees a food photo as composed, that you lost them.


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## Braineack (Feb 3, 2016)

By golly...


using tapatalk.


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## redbourn (Feb 3, 2016)

FotosbyMike said:


> I would have to say 20x20 is small, I have a 36x48 and it can leave highlights sometimes. Even though a softbox says it is soft and it doesn't always soften the light enough, softbox help to direct the light more than soften.
> 
> If you want a lager light source I would invest is some Rosco Diffusing Paper Search a few stands to hold it.
> or some large sheets of frosted plexiglass.



Should I try adding it to the covering that my softbox already has ?

Or instead of?

One would have thought that softbox producers would have got this figured out by now.

Thanks - Michael


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## redbourn (Feb 3, 2016)

FotosbyMike said:


> Much improvement over the first few images you have posted so far the best. Love the props makes a big difference.
> 
> I am still not a fan of all the highlights(white spots) in the soup, I like them on the tomatoes. To fix this you need to make the light source bigger to create a softer light.
> 
> IMO focus in the soup is a little high, I would like to see down closer to the bay leafs. I would clean up the inside of the bowl a little bit from the splitter.



So I get a bigger light source, and no longer get the highlights on the sauce but don't get it on the tomatoes either.

How deep is the lighting rabbit hole ?


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## jcdeboever (Feb 3, 2016)

My man, I love you bra!  Your knocking it down. However, I have gained 10 lbs since following you.... never been happier bra! You da man!


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## redbourn (Feb 3, 2016)

redbourn said:


> Many people have been very encouraging lately but suggested that I sometimes use props.
> 
> So  I tried it today.
> 
> ...



Does this look better?

Thanks ..


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## Braineack (Feb 3, 2016)

I think that same shot, with a larger light source (and slightly more DOF), would be pretty spot on.


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## redbourn (Feb 3, 2016)

Braineack said:


> I think that same shot, with a larger light source (and slightly more DOF), would be pretty spot on.



Thanks!

My softbox is 20x20" which I would have thought was big enough for food but maybe I'm not using it correctly.

Just  made some post changes to the photo.

Comments and thanks ..


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## Dave442 (Feb 3, 2016)

It is looking good. Chile con carne can certainly be a food that can be difficult. 

I might like to see the focus start at the start of the food in the bowl. If you focused right in the middle of the bowel then might try just a bit forward as there is usually less DOF in front of the focus point and more behind the focus point.


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## Braineack (Feb 3, 2016)

redbourn said:


> Braineack said:
> 
> 
> > I think that same shot, with a larger light source (and slightly more DOF), would be pretty spot on.
> ...



did you watch that video and read through that link I posted?


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## OGsPhotography (Feb 3, 2016)

Looks awesome.

Perhaps the bowl being fuller and getting in a bit tighter with the garlic together and oof....

The white mat keeps reminding me of a cutting board it is so angular. 

Your doing great man keep it up!!!! If you use a large diffuser 48" octo or huge umbrella ir a sheet as was suggested, and loose the tomato highlights, you will simply beed another light, or two. Use a rim light could help too.


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## redbourn (Feb 4, 2016)

Braineack said:


> I think that same shot, with a larger light source (and slightly more DOF), would be pretty spot on.



Thank you.

Maybe I'm not using the softbox correctly?

It's 20x20"

Michael


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## redbourn (Feb 4, 2016)

Dave442 said:


> It is looking good. Chile con carne can certainly be a food that can be difficult.
> 
> I might like to see the focus start at the start of the food in the bowl. If you focused right in the middle of the bowel then might try just a bit forward as there is usually less DOF in front of the focus point and more behind the focus point.



Will try it next time.

Thanks


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## redbourn (Feb 4, 2016)

OGsPhotography said:


> Looks awesome.
> 
> Perhaps the bowl being fuller and getting in a bit tighter with the garlic together and oof....
> 
> ...



It is a cutting board ;-)


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## redbourn (Feb 4, 2016)

Braineack said:


> redbourn said:
> 
> 
> > Braineack said:
> ...



Yes unless I missed it. I sometimes find the threads difficult to follow on this forum.

If you still have the link please repost it.

Michael


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## Braineack (Feb 4, 2016)

its in your "ugh, how do I get rid of these ugly white spots on my food" thread.


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## astroNikon (Feb 4, 2016)

I've noticed that cheap soft box diffusers have one diffuser.  Betters ones have two, one inside and the one that you see.  Essentially diffusing the light even more for a softer look.

One of my small softboxes was like that.  I generally read about it here ==> Softbox with dual diffusers?

So putting, say a shower curtain in front of yours may help get rid of the bright spots.


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## table1349 (Feb 4, 2016)

I have to say, I like the direction you are going.  Some rifinement as mentioned above could help, but the overall presentation is not as static.  This draws a person to the food more than previous photos.


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## Braineack (Feb 4, 2016)

astroNikon said:


> So putting, say a shower curtain in front of yours may help get rid of the bright spots.



and it will make the light source bigger and softer.  So the "white spots"  will be toned down and evened out as they will fill the entire plate of food, not just a small area.

see: Strobist: Lighting 102: Unit 2.2 - Specular Highlight Control


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## redbourn (Feb 4, 2016)

Braineack said:


> its in your "ugh, how do I get rid of these ugly white spots on my food" thread.



You had two links and I only saw the one Fstoppers.

Really helpful vid.

Shower curtains are fairly heavy duty plastic. I could buy a shower curtain, use a white sheet, or buy tracing paper, what do you think?


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## redbourn (Feb 4, 2016)

gryphonslair99 said:


> I have to say, I like the direction you are going.  Some rifinement as mentioned above could help, but the overall presentation is not as static.  This draws a person to the food more than previous photos.



Thank you !


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## redbourn (Feb 4, 2016)

Braineack said:


> astroNikon said:
> 
> 
> > So putting, say a shower curtain in front of yours may help get rid of the bright spots.
> ...



Will check the link !

Thanks.


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## redbourn (Feb 4, 2016)

astroNikon said:


> I've noticed that cheap soft box diffusers have one diffuser.  Betters ones have two, one inside and the one that you see.  Essentially diffusing the light even more for a softer look.
> 
> One of my small softboxes was like that.  I generally read about it here ==> Softbox with dual diffusers?
> 
> So putting, say a shower curtain in front of yours may help get rid of the bright spots.



Will check the link and thanks for the info.

Michael


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## Didereaux (Feb 4, 2016)

Won't speak to the photo, but I'll tell you one dam thing,  you better never serve that insipid, bean laden, anemic bowl of gruel and call it chili in the state of Texas!  ...and we DON'T put weeds in or on it either!


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## chuasam (Feb 7, 2016)

You're improving.
Try to learn to concept of hero products.
Buy an entire pack of basil leaves and choose the most perfect leaves for the shot.
These are slightly torn and yellowish.
Also, I don't like the specular highlights on  some of the food items.
Lighting, Styling, and Composition: Creating the Perfect Still-Life Image - The Shutterstock Blog


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## redbourn (Feb 7, 2016)

chuasam said:


> You're improving.
> Try to learn to concept of hero products.
> Buy an entire pack of basil leaves and choose the most perfect leaves for the shot.
> These are slightly torn and yellowish.
> ...



Thanks for the comments.
I haven't seen packs of basil leaves here but I have a plant growing on my window sill.
I should have been more careful and picking the best leaves.


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## Peeb (Feb 12, 2016)

Great shot!

I wish the front of the bowl AND the garlic cloves were just a bit sharper.  Maybe stop down the aperture a step or two?


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## redbourn (Feb 12, 2016)

Peeb said:


> Great shot!
> 
> I wish the front of the bowl AND the garlic cloves were just a bit sharper.  Maybe stop down the aperture a step or two?


Thanks.

I was just about to look for an article about dof ..


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## table1349 (Feb 12, 2016)

Sorry, I would have to disagree.  Food photography is a lot like sports photography, you want the action or in this case the actual dish in focus to draw your attention to it alone.  The supporting cast should be slightly out of focus.  Only change I would have made was a spoon instead of a fork.  Chili to me is a spoon food.


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## Peeb (Feb 12, 2016)

gryphonslair99 said:


> Sorry, I would have to disagree.  Food photography is a lot like sports photography, you want the action or in this case the actual dish in focus to draw your attention to it alone.  The supporting cast should be slightly out of focus.  Only change I would have made was a spoon instead of a fork.  Chili to me is a spoon food.


But DOF here was so shallow that front of bowl is too soft and background is so blurry as to be a distraction. IMO. 

I agree about the spoon.


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## table1349 (Feb 12, 2016)

Well I understand that you Okie's have different tastes in food down there.   Up here in Kansas we don't eat the package the food is in.


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## Peeb (Feb 12, 2016)

gryphonslair99 said:


> Well I understand that you Okie's have different tastes in food down there.   Up here in Kansas we don't eat the package the food is in.


Mm mm, polypropylene!  Tasty!


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## table1349 (Feb 12, 2016)

Peeb said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> > Well I understand that you Okie's have different tastes in food down there.   Up here in Kansas we don't eat the package the food is in.
> ...


I'm thinking that bowl is made of Vitrelle.  I prefer mine with ketchup and pepper.


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## Peeb (Feb 12, 2016)

I was actually referring to the CONTENTS  at the front of the bowl, but I must admit that my post was not the most artfully worded piece of literature!


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