# Slightly Frustrated - What am I doing wrong?



## suzzie_stretch (Jun 5, 2012)

I realize this is the 4th post I've put up in a matter of minutes, I've had a few questions in my head for a while, and I think I've finally located an outlet that might be able to help me 

I've noticed as I progress with my photography, that I'm just not getting something. 

Orange County Wedding Photographer Los Angeles - Lin and Jirsa Photography
This link is a photograher that I really admire their style and shots, and what I strive towards as my goal...I love the crisp, clean-ness of the photos, and I find its something I have a hard time achieving is that sharp crisp clean look, it seems no matter what I do, they are almost always a soft focus?

Is there a lot of post work done to the photos in general in the link I posted?  I've posted one from the most recent wedding I did, and although I'm pleased with the photos, as is the client, I just feel that I'm no where NEAR complete growing as a photographer, and want to achieve this nice crispness to photos. 
This is another person that I follow, I love the cleanliness of the images Welcome to Facebook - Log In, Sign Up or Learn More 

Any help?

My equipment includes a Nikon D700, a 70-200mm VR lens, a 24-70mm IF lens, a 60mm macro, (and I am hopefully getting a 14-24 from my husband for my birthday!) so it spans across the board, I know the equipment is good...I just realize that technically I may not be doing so well   my website is www.suzziesphoto.com  for a reference

Any insights would be greatly appreciated


----------



## Robin Usagani (Jun 5, 2012)

1. your processing skill needs a lot of improvement
2. you need to improve your photo selections (and taste level).  I bet the photographer you admire does not spit out amazing images all the time.... but they know how to pick good ones to represent their brand when they blog and on their portfolio.  
3. know how to take advantage of the natural light


----------



## imagemaker46 (Jun 5, 2012)

I would say that you are correct in your self assessment that technically you are not doing well.  I looked through most of your gallery and the one thing that you are missing is keeping your horizontal and vertical lines straight. This is basic photography.  Your site says that you have the skills, and yet you are having trouble figuring out what has been done in post?  The one photo you did post is over saturated and to be blunt, it really doesn't look very professional.  If you have the opportunity of taking any good photoshop courses I would suggest that would really help put you in the right direction as a good starting point. The photos on your gallery aren't way off, but the exposures and consistancy that a professional should be producing isn't there yet.  More time and more practice and you'll get to the point you are looking for.


----------



## Robin Usagani (Jun 5, 2012)

Also, most of your shots on your website is soft or has really bad IQ.  I am not sure why.


----------



## Espike (Jun 5, 2012)

Schwettylens said:


> Also, most of your shots on your website is soft or has really bad IQ.  I am not sure why.



I noticed the same thing. From your gallery, I can't tell if your IQ is bad/soft or if the files are super compressed making them appear that way. I too noticed that your lines are often crooked.


----------



## Dillard (Jun 5, 2012)

I agree. Many of your photos appear soft. I agree with Schwetty though, not every photo deserves a place on the page. Pick your very best work to showcase!


----------



## DiskoJoe (Jun 6, 2012)

Schwettylens said:


> 1. your processing skill needs a lot of improvement
> 2. you need to improve your photo selections (and taste level).  I bet the photographer you admire does not spit out amazing images all the time.... but they know how to pick good ones to represent their brand when they blog and on their portfolio.
> 3. know how to take advantage of the natural light



Its not a photographer its a photographer service. They have three masters and multiple associate photographers. Hard to compete with a whole team of great photogs. But just keep practicing and reading. It takes time even with really good gear.


----------



## DiskoJoe (Jun 6, 2012)

Espike said:


> Schwettylens said:
> 
> 
> > Also, most of your shots on your website is soft or has really bad IQ.  I am not sure why.
> ...



Cheap web hosting. I see it all the time. People might have good photos but with a bad site and bad compression your work will not look as good as it could if you picked a better layout of got professional web development geared towards a photography site.


----------



## gsgary (Jun 6, 2012)

Well your trying to run before you can walk


----------



## DiskoJoe (Jun 6, 2012)

gsgary said:


> Well your trying to run before you can walk



Trying to run a marathon is more like it. You have to take out the small fish first before you go shark fishing.


----------



## tirediron (Jun 6, 2012)

My impression is that in addition to the above comments, you really need to work on your use strobed light.  The photo that you posted would have gone from 'bleah' to 'WOW' had you brought along a couple of strobes.


----------



## suzzie_stretch (Jun 6, 2012)

Yes my photoshop skills are quite horrendous and I'm afraid I don't know what IQ means.   I also get the metaphors, but I've already written that I know its going down hill for me...and I would like to know what to do correctly, i'm throwing myself out there to make myself better, so I will take the critisim, but if its useful, I dont see the point of a post that says...oh, you just shouldnt be doing this at all, I would like to learn, perhaps some reading material that would assist me? a website? more schooling?
Thank you


----------



## ChristianGrattan (Jun 6, 2012)

I would like to know exif info on your images.

Also the photographer you linked to is all BW and your work is in color.    This might be a starting point.

Also is your monitor calibrated?

You are adding a lot of color casts, how good are you at getting the color spot on?  Self assessment here.


----------



## Robin Usagani (Jun 6, 2012)

ChristianGrattan said:


> Also the photographer you linked to is all BW and your work is in color.    This might be a starting point.



Maybe you should hover your mouse over the image  They are not B&W.


----------



## DiskoJoe (Jun 6, 2012)

suzzie_stretch said:


> Yes my photoshop skills are quite horrendous and I'm afraid I don't know what IQ means.   I also get the metaphors, but I've already written that I know its going down hill for me...and I would like to know what to do correctly, i'm throwing myself out there to make myself better, so I will take the critisim, but if its useful, I dont see the point of a post that says...oh, you just shouldnt be doing this at all, I would like to learn, perhaps some reading material that would assist me? a website? more schooling?
> Thank you



IQ = IMAGE QUALITY!!!!!!!!

Google photoshop tutorials and get some flash and go to storbist.com.


----------



## cgipson1 (Jun 6, 2012)

I would start here, if I were you:  http://www.amazon.com/Understanding...9390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1338995985&sr=8-1

Good equipment still need good knowledge and skills!


----------



## Robin Usagani (Jun 6, 2012)

this is what happen when you use a nikon


----------



## cgipson1 (Jun 6, 2012)

Schwettylens said:


> this is what happen when you use a nikon



hahaha.... not even going there! YOU know why this happens... and it ain't the camera! lol!


----------



## theonlysteviet (Jun 6, 2012)

Hey. 

Why don't you look up the mentoring section of this forum? I recently got myself one


----------



## IByte (Jun 6, 2012)

Schwettylens said:
			
		

> this is what happen when you use a nikon



Blasphemy Schwetty!


----------



## chuasam (Jun 6, 2012)

Hey Sue,
are you picking your autofocus points or are you letting the camera pick the autofocus points for you? The pictures seemed to be focused on the nearest point to the camera.


----------



## pipesintune (Jun 6, 2012)

The basics are what so many people new to the industry seem to lack, and choose to rely on the technology of the cameras to 'fix'.
Exposure, composition and white balance are the keys to making a great image.  Post processing is OK for a few images from the day, but you don't want to go crazy with them.

I rarely use any effects with my images...I'd rather get it right in the camera.  My post work is mostly all done in Lightroom to fine-tune the images to perfection.

I'd suggest to learn to use a light meter.  Set manual exposures and learn to use fill-flash outdoors (as well as using flash indoors, correctly).
It's a big job, but a wedding is an even bigger job that you cannot go back and re-shoot, or make excuses for.

One way to get a good grasp is to work for another photographer, first by shadowing, then by shooting with, to get the hang of things.


----------



## gsgary (Jun 6, 2012)

suzzie_stretch said:


> Yes my photoshop skills are quite horrendous and I'm afraid I don't know what IQ means.   I also get the metaphors, but I've already written that I know its going down hill for me...and I would like to know what to do correctly, i'm throwing myself out there to make myself better, so I will take the critisim, but if its useful, I dont see the point of a post that says...oh, you just shouldnt be doing this at all, I would like to learn, perhaps some reading material that would assist me? a website? more schooling?
> Thank you




How about taking a few years learning before you wreck someones wedding


----------



## Robin Usagani (Jun 6, 2012)

gsgary said:


> suzzie_stretch said:
> 
> 
> > Yes my photoshop skills are quite horrendous and I'm afraid I don't know what IQ means.   I also get the metaphors, but I've already written that I know its going down hill for me...and I would like to know what to do correctly, i'm throwing myself out there to make myself better, so I will take the critisim, but if its useful, I dont see the point of a post that says...oh, you just shouldnt be doing this at all, I would like to learn, perhaps some reading material that would assist me? a website? more schooling?
> ...



She is not wrecking anyone's wedding.  The clients should expect similar photos based on her portfolio.


----------



## Dillard (Jun 6, 2012)

Schwettylens said:


> She is not wrecking anyone's wedding.  The clients should expect similar photos based on her portfolio.



Very true. If you were to hire a photographer for your wedding without looking at their portfolio, you honestly couldn't complain


----------



## gsgary (Jun 6, 2012)

Schwettylens said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> > suzzie_stretch said:
> ...



Blown whites and out of focus, not what you expect from a D700  i thought they had a perfect light meter


----------



## The_Traveler (Jun 6, 2012)

it is really sort of difficult to see where the problems are occurring.
why not post a lerge jpeg or a link to a raw image so we can see what they look like straight out of the camera?

Lew


----------



## KmH (Jun 6, 2012)

pipesintune said:


> The basics are what so many people new to the industry seem to lack, and choose to rely on the technology of the cameras to 'fix'.
> Exposure, composition and white balance are the keys to making a great image.  Post processing is OK for a few images from the day, but you don't want to go crazy with them.


Yep! No doubt, the fundamentals have to be mastered before one can effectively use advanced techniques. With the advent of digital photography the photographer has had to become much more involved in the post production work, and more importantly has a much more complex pre production learning curve to master.

Image editing is it's own specialty, and is akin to film photographers learning how to develope, process. and print in a wet darkroom. Photoshop and similar aplications are based on wet darkroom techniques.  I highly recommend putting together an image editing (Photoshop) reference library. 

What is see from so many new photographers today is a poor understanding of how to control depth-of-field, a poor understanding of how to effectively use light, and an general lack of understanding technical things.


----------



## suzzie_stretch (Jun 7, 2012)

this one is essentially straight from camera, it was processed from raw to jpeg, but if I've uploaded it correctly, it should be full image size.  

When I did my schooling for photography, it was all still film, and that to me was so simple, so manual and easy to get, theres soo many possibilties with my digital now, that perhaps its overwhelming. 

MY portfolio is online, as well as printed for clients to see, so they know fully ahead of time the type of product I can offer them for the price they are paying.  I've only ever had happy clients, but I KNOW I can do better, I may just need to update my skill set to stay with the new equipment and everything. 

I appreciate the helpful insight so far, I want to be a sponge and take all this on, I will look into the provided links as well, thank you


----------



## gsgary (Jun 7, 2012)

Everything is the same shooting digital only thing different is white balance i  still shot film as well as digital


----------



## Espike (Jun 7, 2012)

I don't know the first thing about wedding photography, and I am still learning the basics. I can however, see that that image is pretty crooked. I know that you said it has only been exported so I would expect to see it level in a final edit. That being said, your website features a lot of images with similar tilts leading me to think that maybe you're not aware of it. If you post a link to a raw, would you allow us to edit it? Would you allow us to edit this jpg for that matter?


----------



## 60D (Jun 7, 2012)

Good for you for reaching out in the first place.  It shows that you really want to improve and become a great photographer.  Don't get frustrated.  I have had two years of technical training at a university in photography and I still hit walls every day and have to seek advice or look up a solution or just experiment until I get it.  The key is taking critique with notepad in hand and make use of it.  You can please some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time.  So my advice to you is this. Go to lynda.com and watch all of the videos on photography you can possibly watch before your eyes pop out. It is an instructional site that caters to any level photographer so start where you really need improvement.


----------



## suzzie_stretch (Jun 7, 2012)

60D said:


> Good for you for reaching out in the first place. It shows that you really want to improve and become a great photographer. Don't get frustrated. I have had two years of technical training at a university in photography and I still hit walls every day and have to seek advice or look up a solution or just experiment until I get it. The key is taking critique with notepad in hand and make use of it. You can please some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time. So my advice to you is this. Go to lynda.com and watch all of the videos on photography you can possibly watch before your eyes pop out. It is an instructional site that caters to any level photographer so start where you really need improvement.



Thank you sooooo very much, I really appreciate it, you have no idea 

Yes the 2 images I posted I am ok with them being edited, if you dont mind adding the steps of what you've done to it, that would be really great   Thank you!


----------



## Ysarex (Jun 7, 2012)

suzzie_stretch said:


> this one is essentially straight from camera, it was processed from raw to jpeg, but if I've uploaded it correctly, it should be full image size.
> 
> When I did my schooling for photography, it was all still film, and that to me was so simple, so manual and easy to get, theres soo many possibilties with my digital now, that perhaps its overwhelming.
> 
> ...




Film/digital -- basics remain the same. Get the light right! In this photo in the mall you got the light wrong. Your subjects are placed in front of a bright backlight. Your exposure for the subjects is under and yet the exposure for the background is way over. There is only one fix for this: You fix the light or you fail -- pick one. Film would have failed here. There are no tricks in the digital bag that turn bad lighting in good lighting. You can't shoot against a backlight like that and not blow out the highlights. Adverse lighting is a common condition. Fix it or avoid it. Taking the photo anyway is like trying to knock down a foot thick concrete wall with your head.

Joe


----------



## Noxire (Jun 7, 2012)

Im going to take a stab at editing your image. 

Although i have to agree with earlier sentiments that the image seems soft, It's more soft than my samyang 85mm wide open :S


----------



## Noxire (Jun 7, 2012)

Aaaaand here we go.







Now, the picture has more "pop". 

I added local contrast, reduced green saturation, reduced over all saturation, sharpened, added vignette, dodge & burned the bride/groom, decreased exposure in the background, darkened the store windows, selective sharpening on bride/groom.

Now, this still isn't a good image :/ 
The biggest problem is the location, big differences in exposure, coupled with a very messy background.

You could have solved this by; Using a wide prime opened up and placing the couple closer to camera thus blurring the background.

You could also have used a ND filter on the lens and used the highest sync-speed for flash to cut out as much ambient as possible (giving you the possibility of using a wide aperture without overexposing.).

You could then have underexposed the background with ~1 stop 

And then lit up the now underexposed couple with an above camera light-source and making them really pop.


----------



## Robin Usagani (Jun 7, 2012)

The composition of that photo is not very good IMO.  I dont understand why:

1. you dont try your best and blur the background.  It is too busy.
2. you told the wedding party to stand there.  You are making the background even busier.
3. the party was not posed very well.  Some are visible, some are not.

Blur it!  That will require you to fill the frame with your subject more.


----------



## imagemaker46 (Jun 7, 2012)

I agree with everything that has been said on this thread and it seems the op really wants to learn and understand all the mistakes, I can't add anything that hasn't been said, only that this is a perfect example of an amateur using the right gear jumping into being a professional photographer without understanding the basics of shooting a good photo.  The obvious lack of understanding light and how to use it is the first concern.  Learning how to shoot film because everything is manual should have made it easier to shoot digital, not more difficult.


----------



## suzzie_stretch (Jun 7, 2012)

Thank you everyone, I've ordered up a couple of books that have been suggested, they are on their way, and I'm going to look into seeing if I can find any classes that can get me back on my game again, appreciate the positive comments, and I've accepted all the negative ones, and I don't want to give up on this, I do hope I enjoy it here, and can learn something from everyone. 
Thanks again!


----------



## imagemaker46 (Jun 7, 2012)

The base is there, you just have to keep building on it.


----------



## Mike_E (Jun 7, 2012)

It might be to your advantage to interview and then hire a retoucher.

Not only will this save you a couple of years learning post production, if you are a good boss and will listen to what your retoucher would like you to do to make their life easier, it will in turn make you a better photographer.

If you have the money and the time I would also suggest your attending a workshop or three for some semi-personal instruction.


----------



## hopelaurenphotograph (Jun 7, 2012)

I recommend the ebook, Portrait Photography for Beginners (see here) just to go back to the basics and find a great foundation. You have a good creative eye but the technical aspect and processing could use some work. I have had issues in the past with uploading photos online and them looking a lot different (worse) than what they do on my computer, so I do give you a little credit there.

I have been doing paid photography for three years now and I have grown so much just in the last few months after going back and reading this book. taking a step backward helped me refocus.

Here is my site


----------



## vtf (Jun 8, 2012)

Hi, do you sharpen your raw images? At what point do you sharpen?


----------



## GreggorF (Jun 12, 2012)

[FONT=Arial Narrow, sans-serif]The Strobist is a great website, you can learn a lot there about the use of flash, particularly Off-Camera-Flash (OFC). Kelby Training is also *very good, *they have lots of lesson covering digital photography, Photoshop, workflow, post-production, retouching, and on and on, but it is not free.($25/mo or $200/yr.) There are quite a few free tutorials available online. Many of them are there to whet your appetite so you'll want to buy their full programs. Adobe TV has quite a few video tutorials covering various topics in Photoshop. _NOTE: If you don't have the latest version of Photoshop you'll really have to hunt for topics related to your version._ Learn by Video offer some relatively inexpensive introductory tutorials on DVD for Photoshop. YouTube has many videos covering Photoshop technique and procedures but very few that offer solid introductory information to give you a good foundation.

Some recommendations:
Try to avoid using automatic anything. Except maybe to get you in the ballpark for setting your camera manually.
Learn your camera manual by heart. There will be some things in there that may have very little meaning for you. Learn what they are. Check out the glossary at dpreview.com and do Google searches until you find answers. About.com is another good free place with information about digital photography and Photoshop.[/FONT]
 [FONT=Arial Narrow, sans-serif]
Don't just focus on your subject(s), be acutely aware of the background and surroundings. Use a tripod. You'll be amazed at the consistency with which you maintain the lines within your images as well as the increased sharpness.[/FONT]
 [FONT=Arial Narrow, sans-serif]
Join a photography group, preferably a professional one. Check to see if there is a local chapter of PP of A anywhere in your area. Advanced hobbyist can also be quite helpful. With the latter, however, just verify everything you're told through reference material, either online or at the library.[/FONT]
 [FONT=Arial Narrow, sans-serif]
Purchase Adobe Photoshop for Photographers by Martin Evening. Get the edition appropriate for the version of Photoshop that you have. It is one of the best reference text for Photoshop on the market.[/FONT]
 [FONT=Arial Narrow, sans-serif]
Invest in Nikon Speedlight 900 (before you get your wide angle lens). Then, learn how to use it for fill-flash on your outdoor portraits. When you can, invest in a second one to use for OCF in a two light set-up.[/FONT]
 [FONT=Arial Narrow, sans-serif]
Learn to _see the light_, especially natural light, how it effects your subjects and how it can be used to enhance your subjects. Learn about the golden hour. It is invaluable when shooting outdoor portraits, especially of families and romantic couples' portraits. Analyze the light in images that you admire, the direction, the quality, the source. Is a reflector used to subtly fill the shadow areas, or is a flash used to eliminate deep shadows, or neither.[/FONT]
 [FONT=Arial Narrow, sans-serif]
See if there is a local community college or continuing ed. program that offer courses in photography and/or Photoshop. Art history courses are also worthwhile. They can strengthen your composition and improve your perception and use of light.[/FONT]
 [FONT=Arial Narrow, sans-serif]
Take lots of pictures and make notes; what was the time of day, what were my settings, What and where was the light source. What worked, what didn't.[/FONT]
 [FONT=Arial Narrow, sans-serif]
Have someone outside your family, preferably an artist, graphic artist or another photographer, help you select your display images. More is not necessarily better. If you have two similar images, pick the best. There's only one best.[/FONT]
 [FONT=Arial Narrow, sans-serif]
If you intend to continue as a professional while you improve your skills, I believe you should concentrate on newborns and infants. That, to me, is where you are currently the strongest. Having said that, add some more extreme close-ups to your newborn repertoire. Show those little, tiny toes. Fill the frame with just the baby's toes or foot. Show baby's hand in dad's hand. People love that sense of scale. You did that nicely with the baby and the soccer ball. Show just the baby's ear and a close-up of the baby's closed eyes. Show a bare chested dad cradling the newborn. You can shoot it loose showing dad looking down at baby and again tight, showing just the baby with the arms cradling it using dad's chest as the background. From behind mom, show the baby's face as the baby is resting it's head on mom's bare shoulder, showing little else of mom. Maybe show a bit of mom's profile as background, but be sure to conceal any potential jowls with baby's head.[/FONT]
 [FONT=Arial Narrow, sans-serif]Good Luck and Persevere!
[/FONT]


----------



## Ysarex (Jun 12, 2012)

Noxire said:


> Aaaaand here we go.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




And if you put that much editing effort into 25% of your wedding photos you're out-of-business before I post this.

Joe


----------



## Mike_E (Jun 13, 2012)

KmH said:


> pipesintune said:
> 
> 
> > The basics are what so many people new to the industry seem to lack, and choose to rely on the technology of the cameras to 'fix'.
> ...




You haven't given permission to edit your photos but please check your PM.  Whenever the bride is in the shot, the bride is the prime subject and the dress is second.  Everything else lines up after that.

Notice the crop, before you had the breezeway as the main attraction, now even though the groom is on the third line the bride is on center stage and her dress is is not cutoff and is given room to breath behind her. 

This was just a quick touch (notice that I didn't get rid of the green cast to her skin or do any retouching to the blemishes or freckles) but I popped a white balance off of one of the painted signs (I didn't know if she was wearing white or off white otherwise I'd have made her dress more white.

Also notice that I increased the contrast to better show the detail of the dress (way important!), one of the quickest ways I know to upset a bride with her wedding photos is to show her dress as just another white dress.  (you might as well tell her that the most important thing she could tell you is very interesting but just skip the details, dangerous).

Anyway, if you'll excuse the pun, always focus on the main things, even when you're illustrating with the mundane as crazy as weddings get they really are simple things.  Focus.


----------



## Siflan (Jun 14, 2012)

In your gallery, (Couple, Friends & Engagements) there's a coupe in a tree.  If you look at it carefully, you'll see that the back of the guys head is completely cut off, due to light.  That's processing work needed.  Look into the Photo Shopping courses.  They are a help.


----------

