# I'm annoyed.



## frommrstomommy (Aug 5, 2013)

What would you do??

Before I explain, let me just lay out that the magazine is completely stupid and this is just about principle for me. lol

I was asked by a fellow marine wife to photograph her daughter that does "modeling" and that one of the pics would be put in this little magazine. I'm nice, I'm usually bored, she's military.. why not I say? So we photograph. I'm not 100% pleased with the photos.. it was 110 out and her daughter was NOT having it.. we got a few okay shots I think. She says they're fine, refuses to reshoot, picks one, supposedly submits it!

Today, on facebook, in my news feed.. I see a local fauxtog.. yes, I'm allowed to say this because the photos are well, not great to be nice. Again, I'm a nice person (most of the time). lol Anyway, she uploads an album of this girl, in the outfit.. some of the same locations and says one can be found in blablabla magazine. I go look at the preview digital copy of said magazine and sure enough.. one of her pics is in there!! It is NOT one of the ones I took. 

I've taken a few other boutique modeling shots as a favor to a friend since then.. so I'm pretty hurt that she did this all basically behind my back. It's really not nice. 

Needless to say I AM DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE.

THE END.


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## The_Traveler (Aug 5, 2013)

So, you're DONE, right?


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## peter27 (Aug 5, 2013)

Life's too short.


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## kathyt (Aug 5, 2013)

You were not paid correct? You got some experience out of the deal so it is not a total loss.


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## frommrstomommy (Aug 5, 2013)

kathythorson said:


> You were not paid correct? You got some experience out of the deal so it is not a total loss.



Not paid. Yes, the experience to never work with them again. haha


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## Rob99 (Aug 5, 2013)

She did you a favor, you said you weren't happy with the photos, right? Then why would you want one in a magazine with your name attached?


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## frommrstomommy (Aug 5, 2013)

Rob99 said:


> She did you a favor, you said you weren't happy with the photos, right? Then why would you want one in a magazine with your name attached?



I like where your head's at Rob!! lol This would have been the image...


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## frommrstomommy (Aug 5, 2013)

I still feel the need to tell her something though!! I think I'll feel better. lol


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## kathyt (Aug 5, 2013)

frommrstomommy said:


> I still feel the need to tell her something though!! I think I'll feel better. lol


That wasn't very kind to go behind your back at all. I can see why your feelings are hurt. If you must say something to her, maybe just a little note telling her just that. Your feelings were hurt. Period.


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## Designer (Aug 5, 2013)

Just scream it into your pillow.


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## DarkShadow (Aug 5, 2013)

No contract anything goes.Break something,it usually makes me feel better.


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## The_Traveler (Aug 5, 2013)

Perhaps she was embarrassed at having to say she didn't like your work.

I suggest that next time you see her alone, you just smile and say that you're happy she found some work that she liked.


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## pgriz (Aug 5, 2013)

You may want to tell her, but if she's like some people I know, she's completely oblivious about your feeling on this.  I'd suggest you let it go - you've learned something valuable about your "friend", and it didn't cost you much.


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## frommrstomommy (Aug 5, 2013)

Well, can't say I took the highest road possible.. but I felt like my head was going to explode. lol I commented on it and said "whoa whoa is this not what you had me photograph??" and then she messaged me.. 

her
I submitted a bunch of pics and they picked from them

10:43am
Bonnie Craig
well, thats disappointing ;\

10:43am
her
I'm sorry!

10:43am
Bonnie Craig
that was kind of the whole reason in doing the photos to begin with and i thought you were submitting just one photo

10:44am
her
They only needed one, but I did submit more from both of you

10:45am
Bonnie Craig
im not sure what to say

10:46am
her
I didn't purposely try to dupe you or anything...honestly. You both responded to my post that night and I didn't know either of your work and just decided to go for both and let them decide

10:46am
Bonnie Craig
its definitely disappointing. i was not aware you were having more than one shoot done to begin with. i did offer to reshoot too.
i would not have taken them had i known that, honestly.

10:47am
her
I wasn't disappointed with your shoot at all. I just sent it to them and let them pick what they felt would go best with their vision

10:47am
Bonnie Craig
i understand that. i just wish you had been up front about having another photographer also doing photos

10:48am
her
It all happened so fast, I just didn't even think about it honestly





.. and then I just didn't respond. she lies. she knew damn well.


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## Majeed Badizadegan (Aug 5, 2013)

frommrstomommy said:


> .. and then I just didn't respond. she lies. she knew damn well.



She sounds charming. 

Ideally: 

1. don't work for free. 
2. when you do work, have a contract signed up front.


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## frommrstomommy (Aug 5, 2013)

Believe me, lesson WELL learned. lol I should just stop being so nice, apparently.


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## KenC (Aug 5, 2013)

So you learned two lessons: 1) don't do this again, and 2) don't bother to confront anyone who obviously is not being honest - you'll get more of the same.  FWIW, the photo isn't bad.  It could use a little more contrast and this may not be her best face, but it's way better than what most people turn out.


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## manicmike (Aug 5, 2013)

I don't think it's a bad shot. Could be better, but not bad. 

Sounds like she's dishonest. Frankly, she doesn't sound like anyone I would even want to be friends with.


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## frommrstomommy (Aug 5, 2013)

I am so tempted to link to the chosen photo.


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## Designer (Aug 5, 2013)

frommrstomommy said:


> Believe me, lesson WELL learned. lol I should just stop being so nice, apparently.



Kill them all and let God sort them out.

HUA!


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## manicmike (Aug 5, 2013)

frommrstomommy said:


> I am so tempted to link to the chosen photo.



You should.


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## frommrstomommy (Aug 5, 2013)

I feel bad, but I'm highly annoyed today and apparently sick to top it off. 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...0.419878704717238&type=1&theater&notif_t=like


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## Braineack (Aug 5, 2013)

ahhh I see the problem...you didn't put a silly copyright in the middle of your photo to promote yourself.


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## vintagesnaps (Aug 5, 2013)

I agree it might be better with some adjustment to the contrast, I don't think that plaid against the grayish beige background was ideal, and those may not have been your choices so talking about specifics ahead of time could help. 

I think sometimes people seem to be asking around to get anyone (or maybe everyone!) they know with a camera who will do it for free - to do it for free. And then ask more than one person and then maybe do their own editing and then start posting on Facebook... (And the daughter is modeling, sounds like she wanted portraits for free instead of going to a professional portrait photographer where she'd have to pay.) 

She could have handled this better and just asked one person to take pictures but I think when it's free people may not look at it as work and might take it for granted that it's OK to _not_ use the photos that they _didn't_ pay for. Or if it was being submitted and you don't know the guidelines yourself you don't know necessarily what they're looking for or what might have a better chance of being accepted. Probably better to ask questions about usage and get clear on expectations to minimize problems later. 

Now you know, to politely decline! and if the daughter is modeling the mom should probably start looking into hiring a photographer for portraits.


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## manicmike (Aug 5, 2013)

FWIW, Bonnie, I would use your work over hers any day of the week. 

Don't stew on it. It's not worth it. Some people prefer crap I guess.


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## vintagesnaps (Aug 5, 2013)

I don't think that kid likes getting her picture taken! LOL It had to be serious, well, I can't say the expression seem to work that well (the eye going sideways under her hair doesn't seem too flattering). I don't care for that turquoise school wall (or at least the way the color might have been boosted or brightened up) but maybe the magazine wanted something colorful?? I don't know why that was selected...


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## frommrstomommy (Aug 5, 2013)

Yes, the location we had first discussed shooting at was not this.. but the wind was hitting TERRIBLY and her hair had to be "natural" for the shot per the magazine guidelines so we had to find somewhere to hide from the wind. It was 110 or so out and she asked after every single camera click "are we done yet?" "can we go home now?" she was NOT having it at all. I offered to re-shoot because I was not 100% pleased with the shots we got as far as going into any magazine, crap or not. lol She told me she was on a time crunch and refused to re-shoot so I let it go. I did edit this a bit differently than I normally do, also.. kind of hazed it.


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## frommrstomommy (Aug 5, 2013)

The whole situation honestly was frustrating.. the theme was supposed to be "high fashion, chic, and natural hair with no hair accessories" she was supposed to be wearing this furry purple vest which IMO, made the outfit.. they showed up without it because it was lost. I was like uhhh the outfit makes no sense without it - which is another reason I wanted to re-shoot. I had a vision for the shot I wanted, the vest was a BIG part of that shot so I was irritated.


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## gsgary (Aug 5, 2013)

frommrstomommy said:


> Rob99 said:
> 
> 
> > She did you a favor, you said you weren't happy with the photos, right? Then why would you want one in a magazine with your name attached?
> ...



Its a good job that didn't go in the magazine


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## DarkShadow (Aug 5, 2013)

Yes you work is getting better and better.I am sure you know this already but even family lies to each other or screw each over sometimes.I cant stand phony people my self that do things behind the back because they have no backbone.With friends like that or family like that I rather be a loner.


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## gsgary (Aug 5, 2013)

I can't see a problem, the magazine didn't like your photo, next time try harder


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## frommrstomommy (Aug 5, 2013)

gsgary said:


> I can't see a problem, the magazine didn't like your photo, next time try harder



lol have you even read the thread?


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## DarkShadow (Aug 5, 2013)

gsgary said:


> I can't see a problem, the magazine didn't like your photo, next time try harder


Thats not the point she is making.The person new dam well they where going to summit there own photos as well and used her photo shoot as a back up just in case, but was not up front and honest about it.


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## frommrstomommy (Aug 5, 2013)

DarkShadow said:


> gsgary said:
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> > I can't see a problem, the magazine didn't like your photo, next time try harder
> ...



They are not her own.. just a different photographer.  But, yes.. basically.


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## gsgary (Aug 5, 2013)

DarkShadow said:


> gsgary said:
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> 
> > I can't see a problem, the magazine didn't like your photo, next time try harder
> ...



Still can't see why she is annoyed, thicker skin needed


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## kathyt (Aug 5, 2013)

gsgary said:


> DarkShadow said:
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Men! Argh.


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## gsgary (Aug 5, 2013)

kathythorson said:


> gsgary said:
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> > DarkShadow said:
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It takes a lot to upset me, only thing that has upset me was not seeing my daughter for 7 years because of others actions


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## weepete (Aug 5, 2013)

I agree with Gary, its no biggie. In the end you did some work for someone who didn't like your product and went with someone else.


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## IByte (Aug 5, 2013)

frommrstomommy said:


> I still feel the need to tell her something though!! I think I'll feel better. lol



30-40 minutes punching the **** out of a punching bag you will feel right again.  Don't give up.


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## DanielLewis76 (Aug 5, 2013)

Ha I spend an hour every night punching the **** out of a punching bag... I can vouch it really does work!


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## DarkShadow (Aug 5, 2013)

gsgary said:


> kathythorson said:
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Yea that would have killed me for sure not seeing my kids that long.


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## gsgary (Aug 5, 2013)

DanielLewis76 said:


> Ha I spend an hour every night punching the **** out of a punching bag... I can vouch it really does work!



How does your wife feel about that


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## gsgary (Aug 5, 2013)

DarkShadow said:


> gsgary said:
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I saw my son, but my daughter was poisoned she was told i didn't pay maintenance but eventually she saw £68,000 worth of receipt's, funniest thing was my EX still had her house repossed


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## jamesbjenkins (Aug 5, 2013)

frommrstomommy said:


> Believe me, lesson WELL learned. lol I should just stop being so nice, apparently.



Yeah, I stopped doing free work for ANYONE other than immediate family. I give a 25% discount to the people I'd consider friends. Everybody else, full price. No questions.

I've been burned too many times in the past when I tried to play good samaritan. Never again.

Oh, and EVERYONE is on a contract. No signature, no pictures, no exceptions.

Sorry you had to deal with this idiot. Hopefully, she'll get some nasty warts and all will be well.


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## Steve5D (Aug 5, 2013)

So someone else shot the kid, too?

And you didn't get paid?

And now you're panties are in a bunch over it?

Get over it...


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## Steve5D (Aug 5, 2013)

frommrstomommy said:


> I feel bad, but I'm highly annoyed today and apparently sick to top it off.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...0.419878704717238&type=1&theater&notif_t=like



I gotta' be honest here. If the photo you posted before was yours, I prefer the one on Facebook.

Sorry, I just see it as a better photograph...


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## DarkShadow (Aug 5, 2013)

IMO the one on facebook  with a purple checkered shirt on a neon blue is just horrible.The skin tone generally look ok but what a bad pick for a  shoot.I think the where caught up with the eye candy. I  think this is better to my eye. A slight bump in contrast,Color and then I faded it and I got this.


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## Steve5D (Aug 5, 2013)

DarkShadow said:


> A slight bump in contrast,Color and then I faded it and I got this.



And that would be swell if you were the photographer. But if the OP submitted the photo posted to me, I'd have politely accepted it and gone elsewhere, too...


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## frommrstomommy (Aug 5, 2013)

I'm pretty sure the other photographer shot first.


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## Steve5D (Aug 5, 2013)

frommrstomommy said:


> I'm pretty sure the other photographer shot first.



It really doesn't matter. 

You're upset because she opted for someone else's photo. I get that. But between the photo of yours that you posted, and the one you linked to on Facebook, the Facebook photo is the better photo. The photo of yours that you posted is flat, boring and uninteresting. I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just trying to be objective. There's nothing about it which says "this is someone I'd want to hire". The Facebook photo isn't great, by any means, but it's better...


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## frommrstomommy (Aug 5, 2013)

Steve5D said:


> frommrstomommy said:
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> > I'm pretty sure the other photographer shot first.
> ...



You clearly have not read a word I have written. lol I do not care that the other photo was chosen.. I am upset that she lied, with-held that someone else was also shooting.. etc. And fwiw, you're certainly entitled to your opinion but I already stated I offered to re-shoot as I was unhappy with the outcome.


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## manaheim (Aug 5, 2013)

Totally understand your disappointment, but this is totally one of those cases where the only one who will really understand that is going to be you.  Any sort of negative feeling on this are only going to come back to bite you in the end.  Take the lesson and move on.  Either don't do this kind of thing again, or do it with far clearer expectations up front and documented so that neither party is surprised.

BTW, exclusivity in this type of arrangement- i.e. - "you will only use my pictures and no one elses" is just not gonna happen.


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## The_Traveler (Aug 5, 2013)

manaheim said:


> Totally understand your disappointment, but this is totally one of those cases where the only one who will really understand that is going to be you.  Any sort of negative feeling on this are only going to come back to bite you in the end.  *Take the lesson and move on.  Either don't do this kind of thing again, or do it with far clearer expectations up front and documented so that neither party is surprised.*
> 
> BTW, exclusivity in this type of arrangement- i.e. - "you will only use my pictures and no one elses" is just not gonna happen.



It seems to me that you are taking this really hard and fighting others impression just too much - completely out of proportion to what happened.

It's clear the lady didn't want to tell you, or didn't think to tell you, or was embarrassed to tell you - whatever.
The problem now is how you are taking it.
And you are dealing it in a very non-professional matter.

If I were a prospective client, this kind of response on your part would warn me away.
I wouldn't want to take the chance that you would respond in this excessive manner to something I'd done.
I'd just find someone who would smile and go on.


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## bratkinson (Aug 6, 2013)

Unfortunately, too many lessons in life are learned 'the hard way'.  I'm an expert at those.  Add in 'expensive' (for me), too.

Chalk it up to 'one of life's lessons'.


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## peter27 (Aug 6, 2013)

Ok, so I've read through most of the thread, not all as it's a bit repetitive in parts, and I reiterate my initial comment: life's too short.

I'm not a professional photog and have no desire to become one, but I am freelance in my field and my work depends very much on my reputation. The one thing I cannot afford to do when I get let down or knocked back is to let my ego take the reins. Lew has mentioned your apparent lack of professionalism and Gary has told you what you need to do. In fact, lots of people have given you sound advice on this matter. Put it down to experience and get off your high horse, because it is well and truly dead and needs no more flogging.

Rise above it!


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## Steve5D (Aug 6, 2013)

frommrstomommy said:


> Steve5D said:
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> > frommrstomommy said:
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So what?

She came to you because she wanted a better photo than one she already had. You failed to provide that better photograph. As such, you have no legitimate reason to be upset. If anything, she tried to spare your feelings in the PM exchange instead of saying "Sorry, but your photos just didn't impress me".

I've read every word you've written, including where you said you're sure the other photographer shot first. If anyone should be bent out of shape over this, it's the other photographer.

I agree that the manner in which you chose to deal with this was extremely unprofessional. You've successfully sent up red flags over Hell and Creation which say, if you're unhappy about something, all you're going to do it whine about it so as many people as possible will hear it. You owe the client an apology for taking her to task on her Facebook page, and that apology, to mean anything and to be sincere, needs to be a public apology. I got a ten-spot that says the ability to make such an apology isn't in your DNA.

You probably could've saved this one but, instead, you took it public. No one is going to see your PM exchange, they're just going to see you whining.

That's probably not the best road to go down if you have a prayer of ever doing this professionally...


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## Steve5D (Aug 6, 2013)

The_Traveler said:


> And you are dealing it in a very non-professional matter.





> If I were a prospective client, this kind of response on your part would warn me away.
> I wouldn't want to take the chance that you would respond in this excessive manner to something I'd done.
> I'd just find someone who would smile and go on.



Exactly...


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## gsgary (Aug 6, 2013)

One thing that has not been covered is both your partners are both in the forces, do they serve together ? if so there does not want to be conflict between them when they need to trust each other 100%


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## Dao (Aug 6, 2013)

OP, do not worry about it too much. 

I could be wrong, but I think I know what you tried to do, but it does not work too well in this forum.   As you may notice, most of the forum members who response here are guys including me.  I know your post was not tried to find a solution, but that is what guys usually do  -> See your post, interpret it and respond with a solution. 

I am sure if you post it in a female oriented forum, you will receive different kind of responses.  

This is a typical "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" type situation.  As a guy, I will tell you your photo is not too bad, but just not as "pop" as the other one.  And overall I feel her clothes drawn more attention than the girl.


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## tirediron (Aug 6, 2013)

frommrstomommy said:


> I feel bad, but I'm highly annoyed today and apparently sick to top it off.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...0.419878704717238&type=1&theater&notif_t=like


At least yours was level!  :thumbup:

Okay, so here goes:  If you're going to be serious about business, (and there's nothing wrong with doing something pro bono to help a friend out even if you are in business if it works in your business model), then put on your big-girl panties and ignore it.  You're always going to have the odd client who doesn't like your work.  Yours might have been the greatest shot in the world, but if the client doesn't like it, that does NOT make it bad.  As well... did you sit down and do a consult, show her your portfolio, and explain, "this is the look and style of my images"?


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## Braineack (Aug 6, 2013)

This thread is still alive?


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## tirediron (Aug 6, 2013)

kathythorson said:


> gsgary said:
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> > DarkShadow said:
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:greenpbl:  yeah, and?


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## kundalini (Aug 6, 2013)

Braineack said:


> This thread is still alive?



Seriously, that was my question also.  This thread is taking most of the energy away from people posting photos for critique or asking questions about gear or trying to improve on their photography.  It's just another B&G session.... and I don't Bride & Groom.


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## Steve5D (Aug 6, 2013)

The thread's barely a day old, and some insightful and salient points have been made...


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## gsgary (Aug 6, 2013)

tirediron said:


> kathythorson said:
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> > gsgary said:
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Men rule


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## Juga (Aug 6, 2013)

I say 'YOLO!'

:mrgreen:


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## kathyt (Aug 6, 2013)

gsgary said:


> tirediron said:
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Girls rule, men drool!


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## frommrstomommy (Aug 6, 2013)

Ugh, I'm way too sick with this stomach bug for this. lol Probably half the reason I'm so cranky. I'm just hurt that I thought she and I were going to be "friends" as we had gotten along well the two times I have taken a few shots for her since to help her out because the photographer she usually works with was out of town. I have been nothing but nice to her before any of this! Yes, I fully agree I could have certainly handled this better, I'll give you all that. 

Men and women are wired much differently, and this thread really spotlights that, IMO.


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## pgriz (Aug 6, 2013)

kathythorson said:


> Girls rule, men drool!



Ugh.  I hope it wasn't THAT obvious! :blushing: 

But I think you meant "women" not girls.  Women with some real life experience are usually much more interesting.  Character.  We're talking character here folks.


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## nycphotography (Aug 6, 2013)

I think the lesson here is.... just not let silly trivial stuff get under your skin.  

At the end of the day, you weren't harmed in any way.  While there is only one truth, there are many many interpretions of the truth, and to be honest, "your feelings" is usually just your interpretation of the truth.  Other interpretations may exist, and many more interpretations are possible if you look for them.

It's far easier to find interpretations of the truth that don't require your feelings to be hurt.... than it is to convince other people to change theirs!  You don't control other people, you only have control over yourself  (but only if you choose to exercise it).

Give her the benefit of the doubt, and move on.  Be gracious.  Be above all that.

Life's too short to waste it away fighting over trivial crap like you're on Real Housewives.  They get paid to have all that drama.  You don't.  ;-)


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## pixmedic (Aug 6, 2013)

you want a bunch of us TPF'ers to form a mob and go picket her house or something?
we could think of some catchy slogan to put on signs and chant in front of her house...
OR, we could all bombard that FB page with messages about how your picture was waaaay better than the crappy one the magazine posted. 
I say, an attack on one TPF'er is an attack on us all! 
we are with you mrsmommy! all the way!


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## The_Traveler (Aug 6, 2013)

nycphotography said:


> I think the lesson here is.... just not let silly trivial stuff get under your skin.
> 
> At the end of the day, you weren't harmed in any way.  While there is only one truth, there are many many interpretions of the truth, and to be honest, "your feelings" is usually just your interpretation of the truth.  Other interpretations may exist, and many more interpretations are possible if you look for them.
> 
> ...



I think there is another lesson here.

There is you as a person and there is you as a professional.
How you react as a person harms or helps your reputation as a professional.
You feel bad as a person because you thought the relationship between you and this other woman implied some measure of communication that didn't happen.

That shouldn't affect how you as a professional should respond.
By mixing up the issues of the worth and priority of the photographs with your personal feelings, you are hurting yourself. 

Would I hire you to take pictures after seeing this behavior?
Not a chance because you haven't sorted yourself out as a professional versus you as a person.


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## frommrstomommy (Aug 6, 2013)

lol I guess its a good thing you would not likely ever be in my target market, eh?

Seriously though, I have admitted I could have certainly handled this better... why is there this burning desire to continue beating this dead horse?


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## DarkShadow (Aug 6, 2013)

Once the horse is dead it's dead,bury it and move on to live another day. Here have a flower.:flower:


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## ToorboCharge (Aug 6, 2013)

so this is what the wives argue about while we're at work or in the field..... jk jk.  honestly just leave it as is, you as a marine wife know that theres a high percentage that are shady, and conniving.  See it as some stated and from my point of view, 1)At least it Gave you  experience 2) Never work for free time is money 3)Compose a contract 4) Lesson Learned 5)Get her Ninjapunched (NJP) lol..... 6) Let it go, there's more things to stress about esp if youre in the military or a military wife.  and have a semper day


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## gsgary (Aug 6, 2013)

kathythorson said:


> gsgary said:
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I just get horny


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## Steve5D (Aug 6, 2013)

frommrstomommy said:


> lol I guess its a good thing you would not likely ever be in my target market, eh?
> 
> Seriously though, I have admitted I could have certainly handled this better... why is there this burning desire to continue beating this dead horse?



You should publicly apologize to her in the same forum (ie Facebook) that you took her to task on...


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## manaheim (Aug 6, 2013)

The OP has indicated that they're done and I don't see this going anywhere but south, so...


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