# Nikon D5100 problems



## marcdax

Hello , I'm Marc from Ghent (city in Belgium).
Have some problems with my new D5100.
Before the D5100 I had an Olympus E420, my first DSLR. Made good pictures for such a 'cheap' camera.
After 2 years i thought to upgrade to a better one , a Nikon D5100.
But my pictures are worse than with my Olympus.

Problems :
1- In daylight (no sun but not totally clouded) , on automatic or P program :
I take a picture , it takes 1/4 sec to take it ??
and than you get this 





exif data :
F5/6 , iso 100 (on auto) , s 1/4sec
This picture isn't sharp at all , and it had 8 sharpsetting points

This picture has exif data : f/5 , iso 100 (on auto) , s 1/8sec




4 sharpsettingpoints on the bike itself


Next picture i took was this one :




exif : f4/8 , iso100 (on auto) , 1/15sec

I'm totally not happy about the pictures , the last one is the best.
I tried on the M stand , i put it on f/22 and it would take 6 seconds to take a photo ? in daylight ?
I use the stock 18-55 kit lens , but it can't be that bad ??
If i compare shots that are in a reviews of a D5100 they are 5-6 times better than mine.

2- I've set the sharpness to 8 , i know they only work on PASM.
I just wonder , why i have to sharpen all the photos as my earlier E-420 i never did that and they were even sharp or sharper on the details.
I took pictures of a person and if i look at the picture full size and compare it to a full size photo on a review , they are sharp and no noise , mine is less sharp and has noise (partly due to sharpning i presume ?)

I have no filters on my lens , had them but took them off because i read on the forum it could have something to do with unsharp photos.
I have the same thing on my other lens 55-200.
I can't check with someone else his lens , so i dont know if its the camera or the lenses 
It's like 7 pictures arent really sharp , than you get a good one , than 4 less sharp , than a good one or 2 , ........
edit :
I also set the VR off , no difference.

thanks for the time reading and looking and if you see a fault in writing , I normally speak flemish (dutch)


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## cgipson1

Keep your shutter speed above the reciprocal of your focal length (i.e. 100mm / 100 Shutter speed. Or just keep your shutter speed above 200 period.. you will be good)  by either adjusting your aperture or your ISO. Get it off of AUTO or P.. use Aperture Priority or Shutter Priority or Manual. Get it off of Auto ISO... 

learn your exposure triangle....

Read your manual...  

read Amazon.com: Understanding Exposure, 3rd Edition: How to Shoot Great Photographs with Any Camera (9780817439392): Bryan Peterson: Books

read Amazon.com: David Busch&#39;s Nikon D90 Guide to Digital SLR Photography (9781598639056): David D. Busch: Books


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## Rephargotohp

If you are using the Auto ISO it appears you have your Maximum ISO set to ISO 100 (see page 155) Since all your images were shot at ISO 100. This resulted in your shutter speeds being too long to hand hold. Either change the maxium ISO To a much higher number in Auto ISP or turn off Auto ISO and use a more resonable one for your scene


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## MTVision

marcdax said:
			
		

> Hello , I'm Marc from Ghent (city in Belgium).
> Have some problems with my new D5100.
> Before the D5100 I had an Olympus E420, my first DSLR. Made good pictures for such a 'cheap' camera.
> After 2 years i thought to upgrade to a better one , a Nikon D5100.
> But my pictures are worse than with my Olympus.
> 
> Problems :
> 1- In daylight (no sun but not totally clouded) , on automatic or P program :
> I take a picture , it takes 1/4 sec to take it ??
> and than you get this
> 
> exif data :
> F5/6 , iso 100 (on auto) , s 1/4sec
> This picture isn't sharp at all , and it had 8 sharpsetting points
> 
> This picture has exif data : f/5 , iso 100 (on auto) , s 1/8sec
> 
> 4 sharpsettingpoints on the bike itself
> 
> Next picture i took was this one :
> 
> exif : f4/8 , iso100 (on auto) , 1/15sec
> 
> I'm totally not happy about the pictures , the last one is the best.
> I tried on the M stand , i put it on f/22 and it would take 6 seconds to take a photo ? in daylight ?
> I use the stock 18-55 kit lens , but it can't be that bad ??
> If i compare shots that are in a reviews of a D5100 they are 5-6 times better than mine.
> 
> 2- I've set the sharpness to 8 , i know they only work on PASM.
> I just wonder , why i have to sharpen all the photos as my earlier E-420 i never did that and they were even sharp or sharper on the details.
> I took pictures of a person and if i look at the picture full size and compare it to a full size photo on a review , they are sharp and no noise , mine is less sharp and has noise (partly due to sharpning i presume ?)
> 
> I have no filters on my lens , had them but took them off because i read on the forum it could have something to do with unsharp photos.
> I have the same thing on my other lens 55-200.
> I can't check with someone else his lens , so i dont know if its the camera or the lenses
> It's like 7 pictures arent really sharp , than you get a good one , than 4 less sharp , than a good one or 2 , ........
> edit :
> I also set the VR off , no difference.
> 
> thanks for the time reading and looking and if you see a fault in writing , I normally speak flemish (dutch)



All DSLRs have an anti-aliasing filter so you have to sharpen them in post. Were you using a tripod at 1/4? Not sure why automatic would give you those settings but that's the issue with auto. I thought with P mode you could set your own settings. Never used P mode so I'm
Not sure. 

F/5.6?  It's probably the widest aperture for that focal length so it won't be sharp. Lenses don't perform well wide open. Not sure why the SS was 1/4. 8 sharp settings? You mean 8 focus points were used? That could be another reason your photos are soft. The camera is choosing where to focus and then it's using surrounding focal points. Using af-c or af-a and single focus point will get you better focus and sharper images. 

F/22 would probably take 6 seconds because it is a small aperture - lens is opened just a tiny bit. You probably needed to raise your ISO to get a faster shutter speed. You can go pretty high with the d5100 and have little to no noise as long as you expose it properly. If you aren't using a tripod with slow shutter speeds then the photo will be soft. If you are shooting at the widest aperture then the photos will not be as sharp. 

Sharpness settings affect JPEGS not raw files.  Honestly, it sounds like user error. If you are getting some sharp photos and some not then its probably something you did. Your focus may be off, your not utilizing the different settings properly, etc. The noise in your photos is probably due to not being properly exposed. You will have more noise at ISO 100 with an underexposed shot than at ISO 400 with a perfectly exposed shot. 

The 18-55 lens isn't bad at all. You can get amazing shots with it! Any other questions just ask. I have te d5100 and the same lenses. Maybe you could post more examples......


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## marcdax

cgipson1 said:


> Get it off of AUTO or P.. use Aperture Priority or Shutter Priority or Manual. Get it off of Auto ISO...


If i use S(hutter) i can't go higher on my A (or F/...).
So it's normal that you have a shutter time of 6 seconds on a F/22 in daylight ? That's what I got this afternoon
I cant carry a tripod around all day , good for nightphotos , but in daylight i expect i can take a photo without a tripod.


I know what you mean about taking pictures on Auto , but I sometimes have/just want to take a 'snapshot' (have to call it something) and than I expect a decent photo.
So where is the problem with that than ?


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## cgipson1

6 seconds might be normal for F22 at a low ISO like 100.... that is why you might need to change your ISO to something else. Take it off of AUTO ISO.... and for normal shots, you would never need F22. The only time I use that small an aperture is when I am shooting macro.

There are three parts to every exposure ISO, Shutter Speed and Aperture.... they all work together. Your AUTO ISO is not a good idea.... control it yourself. Look at your meter... keep your shutter speed up so you don't get motion blur that looks like the subject is out of focus

use an aperture and ISO that will allow you the shutter speed you need. 

Or use the ISO and shutter speed to give you the aperture you want for DOF.

Or use the Shutter speed and aperture to get the ISO you want to use....


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## MTVision

marcdax said:
			
		

> If i use S(hutter) i can't go higher on my A (or F/...).
> So it's normal that you have a shutter time of 6 seconds on a F/22 in daylight ? That's what I got this afternoon
> I cant carry a tripod around all day , good for nightphotos , but in daylight i expect i can take a photo without a tripod.
> 
> I know what you mean about taking pictures on Auto , but I sometimes have/just want to take a 'snapshot' (have to call it something) and than I expect a decent photo.
> So where is the problem with that than ?



In shutter you can raise and lower your aperture by changing your shutter speed and/or ISO.  If you had raised your shutter speed your aperture would have opened up more (small f#). 

 you said there wasn't really any sun. The image you showed - you are in shadow and the image has both shadow and bright areas. Your metering mode is probably on evaluative so the camera is trying to get a proper exposure for both the bright areas and the shadows. Learn about your cameras metering modes and it will help. 

There is nothing wrong with wanting to take a snapshot. Its just as quick to use aperture priority or shutter priority. If you can't carry a tripod always then you need to learn about exposure and metering modes. There is no way you will get a sharp photo hand holding at a shutter speed of 1/4


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## marcdax

Thanks for the many quick answers already. Goes fast here !

I will try some new one with the advice this afternoon


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## marcdax

hello again
Took some pictures this afternoon.
Went with the advice of the single focus point and set the iso higher.
Did take them with auto iso so i could see what it would do

Here are the pictures =
iso 1250 , shutter 1/320 , f 6.3
Focus was on the neck of the duckling
But is it me or is the grass on top of the picture sharper than around the duck ?







Than i saw a garbagething , and i took this shot.
This is one I find very good
shutter 1/1250 , f7.1 , iso 1250







Than i have a nightshot , normally i dont have problems with them , but this one 
iso 800 , shutter 10sec , f/20
focuspoint is just beside the door on the right side







This one is even more terrible
iso 800 , 13 sec , f/29 , on a tripod , fp in the middle of the photo





So why is this ? I've taken some nightpictures , but never like this.


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## fjrabon

why do you keep shooting with such crazy apertures?  f/29 for a night picture?  You should probably be shooting those types of shots at like f/5.


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## marcdax

I also took this one this afternoon.
iso 1000 , 1/25sec , f/8





another question , how do you get the whole picture sharp and not only the jar ?
Normally you upgrade you F , but tried it and would not work.


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## marcdax

fjrabon said:


> why do you keep shooting with such crazy apertures? f/29 for a night picture? You should probably be shooting those types of shots at like f/5.


Than there is something wrong with that camera.
I set the 13" and that's the f the camera came with........
But with an F/5 , how do i get the whole picture sharp ?
And in another answer somebody said that an f5.6 was to small ......

edit :
I know that you can change the F in the M mode , but what is the reason that the camera doesnt take the proper F mode itself ?
I'm not the smartest guy in the world  , probably you've noticed , but I'm in for learning but
- Someone says take pictures in A or S mode , so if i set them on S i get those "silly" apertures
- If i set it on A mode i get shuttertimes that you need a tripod.
Conclusion : i can only use the M mode on my camera ?

- If i take a picture on the automode I've got the same problem.
I never get a sharp picture (besides one or two)


So is it me or the camera ?


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## fjrabon

marcdax said:


> another question , how do you get the whole picture sharp and not only the jar ?
> Normally you upgrade you F , but tried it and would not work.



well, a couple of things, you can raise your aperture, however, then you'll need to shoot on a tripod, because raising your aperture causes a longer shutter speed.  However, when you're shooting this close, you'll have to shoot at an extreme aperture, and even then everything won't be fully in focus, it will just be close.  In the image above, f/25 probably gets the books in teh background in focus, but the cup that's nearly touching the lens probably will still be fuzzy.

The easiest way to get more of the shot in focus is to move away and then crop to the image you want.


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## fjrabon

marcdax said:


> fjrabon said:
> 
> 
> 
> why do you keep shooting with such crazy apertures? f/29 for a night picture? You should probably be shooting those types of shots at like f/5.
> 
> 
> 
> Than there is something wrong with that camera.
> I set the 13" and that's the f the camera came with........
> But with an F/5 , how do i get the whole picture sharp ?
> And in another answer somebody said that an f5.6 was to small ......
Click to expand...


I have no idea what you're even talking about here.  You need to buy a book in your native language that will teach you how aperture, shutter speed and ISO work together.  You chose to set your shutter speed at 13 seconds?  That's exactly why the pictures are blurry, because over 13 seconds, on anything less than a pro level tripod, your camera is going to shake.


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## cgipson1

sorry, but you need to RTFM.. and also read the books I mentioned earlier!

Bye!


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## marcdax

So what do you call a pro level tripod ? a 250$ manfrotto ?
this one is taken with the same tripod as the picture above
10 sec , f5 , iso 100






I can even top that one ,
shutter 30 sec , f13 , iso 100








But here's my question :
Why doesnt the camera take the correct ISO ? No one can explain it.
If i take a picture on the S , no good.
If i take a picture on the A , no good.
Even if i don't understand , which i do for 80% , i could do these things wrong , i totally agree on that.
But : On AUTO or other preset none of the pictures are sharp , so how does that come ? Like the Triumph one
I cant set anything wrong there.........so if you could explain that to me I would be very greatfull (As I am already with your tips).


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## fjrabon

because you have to change the ISO yourself.  There's a little button on the left side of your camera, by the barrel that says 'fn' on it.  Hold that button down, while turning your control wheel.  This changes your ISO.  For night shots you probably want to be shooting at ISO 800-1600.  Unless you specifically want a long exposure.  

You really need to learn how your camera works before declaring it broken.


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## cgipson1

YOU need to control the ISO.. and you need to know when, why and what ISO to use.

This also true of Aperture and Shutter Speed. 

Using F20 at night is BAD...  unless there is a specific reason for it. At night, for long exposures on tripod... use around 5.6 to F11.... F8 is a good compromise (also probably the SHARPEST Aperture you have). Also use a remote or the self time to actuate the shutter. Depending on the image quality you are looking for.... use ISO 100 if on a tripod. 

If handheld, then pick an ISO/Aperture combo that gives you a shutter speed you can reliably hand hold without blur (Day or night)


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## marcdax

f7.1 , 1/125 , iso 1250 on daylight , what isn't right ?
the iso 1250 (i know) so how does it come it takes such a high iso ?
Other photo i took 5 seconds later :
shutter 1/60 , f36 and iso 1600 ?
next picture 10 seconds later :
shutter 1/160 , f36 , iso 1250 and LW -1.7 ?


Also as you think i dont know :
take a picture on S , set the time (atleast +1/60 handheld) and the camera will find the right Aperture
Take a picture on A , set the aperture and the camera will find the right shutter
And at last you (if it isnt on automode) you set the iso


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## marcdax

Okay cgipson , reason along with me :
my camera gave me at 13" an f29 which is to high at an iso 800 (that frjabon said also).
So if i lower my F , less light , so my shutter goes up ?
So if yes , i have an even longer shuttertime. 

Another question :
Why does it say , in daylight , in 70% of the time i want to take a picture "object to dark". Not to mention in the dark , that's another reason i use more than 10" to take a picture
I was pointing at a duck in the grass in the middle of the afternoon (and yes my lenscap was off  ) and yes "object to dark".
This afternoon i had this again , the lightmeter was complete to the right , so i tried to compensate with lighting went to the max5 , but still no go.

And thanks for the answers !! I know it's probably silly for you guys (and girls) but i just cant figure it out this camera (and my Olympus went like a breeze)


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## fjrabon

all I know is that every picture you've shown us that looked bad, the ISO was way too low for the shooting conditions.


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## MTVision

You have to understand the metering modes as well.  The reason you are gettin such slow shutter speeds is because the aperture is so small. Why is your ISO changing so much? Take your ISO off auto and your camera off auto. Your camera is going to set it to whatever it wants on automatic.


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## cgipson1

marcdax said:


> Okay cgipson , reason along with me :
> my camera gave me at 13" an f29 which is to high at an iso 800 (that frjabon said also).
> So if i lower my F , less light , so my shutter goes up ?
> So if yes , i have an even longer shuttertime.
> 
> Another question :
> Why does it say , in daylight , in 70% of the time i want to take a picture "object to dark". Not to mention in the dark , that's another reason i use more than 10" to take a picture
> I was pointing at a duck in the grass in the middle of the afternoon (and yes my lenscap was off  ) and yes "object to dark".
> This afternoon i had this again , the lightmeter was complete to the right , so i tried to compensate with lighting went to the max5 , but still no go.
> 
> And thanks for the answers !! I know it's probably silly for you guys (and girls) but i just cant figure it out this camera (and my Olympus went like a breeze)



you have it backwards... a small number (i.e. f-stop 2.8 - Large Aperture) it lets more light in.. so allows a faster shutter speed. A large number (i.e F-stop 29 - Small Aperture) lets less light in, so needs a longer shutter speed.

a shot at F29 that required 1/4 of second, would be only require 1/60 of a second at F8 (100 ISO)

The same shot as ISO 800 would be F29 @ 1/30 of second... or F8@ 1/500 of second.

Does that make more sense?

Check this out  Photographic Exposure Calculator for Available Light

also this  Online Depth of Field Calculator

and this might interest you...    F-number - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## MTVision

fjrabon said:
			
		

> because you have to change the ISO yourself.  There's a little button on the left side of your camera, by the barrel that says 'fn' on it.  Hold that button down, while turning your control wheel.  This changes your ISO.  For night shots you probably want to be shooting at ISO 800-1600.  Unless you specifically want a long exposure.
> 
> You really need to learn how your camera works before declaring it broken.



You have to go into the menu and set the fn button to control your ISO. You really need to read the manual and learn about exposure. No idea why you are setting your shutter speed so slow, your aperture so small or your ISO so high. If you don't understand exposure then your pictures aren't going to come out right. There's more to taking pictures then just exposure - there is focusing (which some people have a hard time with), metering modes, and other things. The manual for this camera comes on a CD. Read it - it's like 300 pages and it is very easy to read.


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## fjrabon

MTVision said:


> fjrabon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> because you have to change the ISO yourself.  There's a little button on the left side of your camera, by the barrel that says 'fn' on it.  Hold that button down, while turning your control wheel.  This changes your ISO.  For night shots you probably want to be shooting at ISO 800-1600.  Unless you specifically want a long exposure.
> 
> You really need to learn how your camera works before declaring it broken.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have to go into the menu and set the fn button to control your ISO. You really need to read the manual and learn about exposure. No idea why you are setting your shutter speed so slow, your aperture so small or your ISO so high. If you don't understand exposure then your pictures aren't going to come out right. There's more to taking pictures then just exposure - there is focusing (which some people have a hard time with), metering modes, and other things. The manual for this camera comes on a CD. Read it - it's like 300 pages and it is very easy to read.
Click to expand...


For Nikons, the fn button controls ISO by default in ap priority and shutter priority modes.  Unless he's somehow already changed that, he shouldn't have to change anything in the menus for that.


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## marcdax

MTVision said:


> You have to understand the metering modes as well. The reason you are gettin such slow shutter speeds is because the aperture is so small. Why is your ISO changing so much? Take your ISO off auto and your camera off auto. Your camera is going to set it to whatever it wants on automatic.


All pictures, those of today, are eather taken on A or S , not on automatic (except for the iso mode).
And i kept all the metering in the middle , at the 0
So if you find my aperture small it's the camera that calculated it in combination with my chosen shutterspeed or visa versa.



MTVision said:


> . No idea why you are setting your ISO so high. If you don't understand exposure then your pictures aren't going to come out right.The manual for this camera comes on a CD. Read it - it's like 300 pages and it is very easy to read.





fjrabon said:


> all I know is that every picture you've shown us that looked bad, the ISO was way too low for the shooting conditions.



So , its to high for one person and to low for another one ?
You say 800-1600 and cgipson said 100 for nightshot
MTVision thinks its to high also.btw , at daylight with iso1250 i even get the "object to dark" notification , so if i go lower (less light).............

I've read the manual but nothing there about ISO numbers and if i look at the camera it points out 100-400 daylight and 640-1000 night , so like the camera (or manual as you want) tells me i have to stay between that , so i took 800. Does that makes sense ? If i got an f29 with iso800 (calculated by the camera) when I take a shutter of 13" , I just wonder how high i needed to set the Iso for a normal (lets say) f11? Am I wrong to think that i would have set my aperture first (f.e.) on f29 I would have gotten also 13" as shutterspeed ?
If I'm correct , if I crank up the Iso , I get a faster shuttertime, not ?
I can see the "more light-more speed" logica.

-> Only thing i really dont understand is :
I choose shutter 1/160 and the camera gives me an f36 aperture , iso 1250 and LW -1.7 ? On daylight conditions


so is it correct (as i translate a dutch website) :
keep the ISO down , you dont want to influence the picture negativ. Mostly you change it last, if you see that the wanted aperture or shuttertime isnt enough to get the wanted shuttertime.


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## marcdax

fjrabon said:


> For Nikons, the fn button controls ISO by default in ap priority and shutter priority modes. Unless he's somehow already changed that, he shouldn't have to change anything in the menus for that.


Uhm no , the FN button controls the selftimer, if I press it , I only change from S (single shot) to 10' timer


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## MTVision

fjrabon said:
			
		

> For Nikons, the fn button controls ISO by default in ap priority and shutter priority modes.  Unless he's somehow already changed that, he shouldn't have to change anything in the menus for that.



On the D5100 you have to set the fn button to ISO. It is set by default to the self-timer setting.


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## 2WheelPhoto

cgipson1 said:


> sorry, but you need to RTFM.. and also read the books I mentioned earlier!
> 
> Bye!


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## fjrabon

MTVision said:


> fjrabon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For Nikons, the fn button controls ISO by default in ap priority and shutter priority modes.  Unless he's somehow already changed that, he shouldn't have to change anything in the menus for that.
> 
> 
> 
> On the D5100 you have to set the fn button to ISO. It is set by default to the self-timer setting.
Click to expand...

Weird. When I demoed one it was set with the fn button to ISO control. Guess somebody had already switched it prior, though IThought I was demoing a fresh out of the box unit.


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## MTVision

marcdax said:
			
		

> All pictures, those of today, are eather taken on A or S , not on automatic (except for the iso mode).
> And i kept all the metering in the middle , at the 0
> So if you find my aperture small it's the camera that calculated it in combination with my chosen shutterspeed or visa versa.
> 
> So , its to high for one person and to low for another one ?
> You say 800-1600 and cgipson said 100 for nightshot
> MTVision thinks its to high also.btw , at iso1250 i even get the "object to dark" notification , so if i go lower (less light).............
> 
> I've read the manual but nothing there about ISO numbers and if i look at the camera it points out 100-400 daylight and 640-1000 night , so like the camera (or manual as you want) tells me i have to stay between that , so i took 800. Does that makes sense ? If i got an f29 with iso800 (calculated by the camera) when I take a shutter of 13" , I just wonder how high i needed to set the Iso for a normal (lets say) f11? Am I wrong to think that i would have set my aperture first (f.e.) on f29 I would have gotten also 13" as shutterspeed ?
> If I'm correct , if I crank up the Iso , I get a faster shuttertime, not ?
> I can see the "more light-more speed" logica.
> 
> -> Only thing i really dont understand is :
> I choose shutter 1/160 and the camera gives me an f36 aperture , iso 1250 and LW -1.7 ? On daylight conditions
> 
> so is it correct (as i translate a dutch website) :
> keep the ISO down , you dont want to influence the picture negativ. Mostly you change it last, if you see that the wanted aperture or shuttertime isnt enough to get the wanted shuttertime.



Metering MODES - how your camera reads the scene and figures out what would be close to a proper exposure. If you are on S or A then you aren't keeping the meter at 0.  There is spot metering, center weighted, and evaluative. Do a search online and read up on them. 

At night - I've found it's better to shoot manual. You never know what the camera will choose for you. I usually set my ISO to 100 (never keep it on auto) and then set my aperture to what I want it to be. I then adjust my shutter speed. If my shutter speed isn't fast enough then I may choose a larger aperture (smaller f #) and/or raise my ISO. 

Your aperture is ridiculously small! The camera didn't really choose it - even in Shutter priority. What you choose for a shutter speed affects the aperture - that's why you have to understand how they all work together. Raisin your ISO can give you a faster shutter speed but you still should understand how everything works. Look up ISO on the Internet or the exposure triangle. 

On A mode inside my poorly lit house - I set ISO to 800 and my aperture to f/16 (which is the smallest aperture of my lens) and I get a shutter speed of 30". F1.4 is my largest aperture and I am still getting a shutter speed of 2 full seconds. In S mode at ISO 800 and choosing a shutter speed of 1/100 my photo will be very underexposed.  To keep my shutter speed at 1/100 I would have to boost my ISO to Hi1. My lens opens up really wide whereas yours doesn't. The kit lens isn't the best in low light.


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## fjrabon

marcdax said:


> MTVision said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have to understand the metering modes as well. The reason you are gettin such slow shutter speeds is because the aperture is so small. Why is your ISO changing so much? Take your ISO off auto and your camera off auto. Your camera is going to set it to whatever it wants on automatic.
> 
> 
> 
> All pictures, those of today, are eather taken on A or S , not on automatic (except for the iso mode).And i kept all the metering in the middle , at the 0So if you find my aperture small it's the camera that calculated it in combination with my chosen shutterspeed or visa versa.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MTVision said:
> 
> 
> 
> . No idea why you are setting your ISO so high. If you don't understand exposure then your pictures aren't going to come out right.The manual for this camera comes on a CD. Read it - it's like 300 pages and it is very easy to read.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fjrabon said:
> 
> 
> 
> all I know is that every picture you've shown us that looked bad, the ISO was way too low for the shooting conditions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So , its to high for one person and to low for another one ?You say 800-1600 and cgipson said 100 for nightshotMTVision thinks its to high also.btw , at daylight with iso1250 i even get the "object to dark" notification , so if i go lower (less light).............I've read the manual but nothing there about ISO numbers and if i look at the camera it points out 100-400 daylight and 640-1000 night , so like the camera (or manual as you want) tells me i have to stay between that , so i took 800. Does that makes sense ? If i got an f29 with iso800 (calculated by the camera) when I take a shutter of 13" , I just wonder how high i needed to set the Iso for a normal (lets say) f11? Am I wrong to think that i would have set my aperture first (f.e.) on f29 I would have gotten also 13" as shutterspeed ?If I'm correct , if I crank up the Iso , I get a faster shuttertime, not ?I can see the "more light-more speed" logica.-> Only thing i really dont understand is :I choose shutter 1/160 and the camera gives me an f36 aperture , iso 1250 and LW -1.7 ? On daylight conditionsso is it correct (as i translate a dutch website) :keep the ISO down , you dont want to influence the picture negativ. Mostly you change it last, if you see that the wanted aperture or shuttertime isnt enough to get the wanted shuttertime.
Click to expand...

You're kind if being an a-hole to people who are genuinely trying to help you. Just take your camera back and go back to your Olympus.


----------



## cgipson1

2WheelPhoto said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> sorry, but you need to RTFM.. and also read the books I mentioned earlier!
> 
> Bye!
Click to expand...


I should have listened to myself!


----------



## MTVision

fjrabon said:
			
		

> You're kind if being an a-hole to people who are genuinely trying to help you. Just take your camera back and go back to your Olympus.



I agree ^^^^ With apertures like f/29 you probably would get the "it's too dark" notification. I was not in any way disagreeing with what frjabon said - your ISO shouldn't be jumping all over the place like that. At night you usually do need higher ISO but in daytime you probably don't need an ISO of 1250. But that's what you get when YOU don't set the ISO.  Cameras aren't super beings - they may give you settings that will take te picture but it won't always give you the best settings. You still have to know how everything works together to use aperture and shutter priority properly to get the best possible image. I have pictures that were shot on auto in the daytime with a high ISO. It's not needed but that's what the camera does. I can almost guarantee that there is nothing wrong with your camera - its user error. The Internet has tons of information, you were given some great book recommendations. Learn the camera - how it works, how exposure works, what the metering modes are.....


----------



## marcdax

It's not that I"m not greatful , where do you get this ? Maybe it comes over that way by expressing in an other language.
 Honestly , I do understand the things all of you are saying. And I've read a book(s).
I know some questions seems irritating, but was everybody born with the knowledge ? 
And a manual or book doens't answer when you ask a question .
Maybe it's more difficult to express the question so you members don't understand me wrongly 

The only other thing that i can think of that my spotmeeting isnt correctly set (by me). Could that be the reason it doesn't give a descent picture on the other modus also ?
I could expect that i get a sharp and descent picture on Automode or another preset ?

MTVision or another member who knows the answer ;
In daytime 
On S : I set 1/160 , the camera gives me an f/29 and sets my iso 1250. It's like you said , doesn't always give the correct setting , but all of you noticed that it is mostly not correct or far off.
If than i want to set my shutter higher (faster) i get a notification "object to dark"
If I lower my ISO , less light.
To get more light in , I have to lower my aperture n°. , so I have to switch to A(perture)mode.
If I set f.e. an f7.1 I get a shutterspeed of 3" with an ISO1250.
That's what I'm trying to explain, if I set my A(perture) higher than f/6 i'm getting "to dark" and my shutterspeed is going up like a rocket.
You should be able to take a picture handheld in the daylight

My question , how do I solve this ? As soon as I know this I can try to "fix" it.
And thanks again for the answers !


----------



## fjrabon

marcdax said:


> It's not that I"m not greatful , where do you get this ? Maybe it comes over that way by expressing in an other language.
> Honestly , I do understand the things all of you are saying. And I've read a book(s).
> I know some questions seems irritating, but was everybody born with the knowledge ?
> And a manual or book doens't answer when you ask a question .
> Maybe it's more difficult to express the question so you members don't understand me wrongly
> 
> The only other thing that i can think of that my spotmeeting isnt correctly set (by me). Could that be the reason it doesn't give a descent picture on the other modus also ?
> I could expect that i get a sharp and descent picture on Automode or another preset ?
> 
> MTVision or another member who knows the answer ;
> In daytime
> On S : I set 1/160 , the camera gives me an f/29 and sets my iso 1250. It's like you said , doesn't always give the correct setting , but all of you noticed that it is mostly not correct or far off.
> If than i want to set my shutter higher (faster) i get a notification "object to dark"
> If I lower my ISO , less light.
> To get more light in , I have to lower my aperture n°. , so I have to switch to A(perture)mode.
> If I set f.e. an f7.1 I get a shutterspeed of 3" with an ISO1250.
> That's what I'm trying to explain, if I set my A(perture) higher than f/6 i'm getting "to dark" and my shutterspeed is going up like a rocket.
> You should be able to take a picture handheld in the daylight
> 
> My question , how do I solve this ? As soon as I know this I can try to "fix" it.
> And thanks again for the answers !



the lower your f stop number the more light you get in.  Take a shot outside in the daylight with something around ISO 200 and f/8.  Your shutter speed will be plenty fast then.  Take ***handheld shots at night*** with something around ISO 1600 and aperture of f/4.  Your shutter speed should be fine with that as well. 

For general shooting think of it this way, the brighter the ambient light, the lower you want your ISO set.  FInd your manual and figure out how to set your fn button so that it allows you to control ISO with it.  You'll need to change your ISO quite often if you shoot at night, so you want that setting as convenient as possible.   

Here is how I approach most shots I take:

1) What DOF do I want for this shot?  This will help me decide what aperture I want to use.  The more DOF I want, the higher f/stop number I want.  THe shallower I want the DOF, the lower f/stop number I want.  However, be advised that especially at night you should avoid extremely high f/stop numbers.  This was your number one problem, along with the low ISO you were shooting your night pictures at.  For night, you generally will need _both_ a low f/stop number and a high ISO. 

2) Given the aperture I want to use on the shot, what ISO fits the lighting conditions?  If it's daylight and I'm using anything under f/11, I probably want ISO 100.  If it's inside, I probably want ISO 400.  If it's dark, I probably want ISO 1600.  So on and so forth.

3) Once I've set the aperture and ISO, I check to see if the exposure time it's giving me will be fast enough.  The general rule of thumb for handheld is the reciprocal of the focal length you're shooting at.  So, if you're shooting with a 50mm lens handheld, you generally want a a 1/50 of a second shutter speed, or faster.  If I've correctly judged parts 1 & 2, then the number it gives me should be acceptable, but sometimes I'm wrong, and there's no reason not to check before you get blurry shots for no good reason.

That's a very simplistic guide, but it should correct all the problems you seem to be having.

edit: also, turn off auto ISO.  Just turn it off, never go back.  auto ISO is the devil.


----------



## marcdax

Okay , tried it this afternoon , was already dark yesterday.
Conditions : cloudy
- I first (to try) set my shutterspeed 1/125 , i got F5 , Iso 640 and the notification "to dark"
- second one (something different) , set my Aperture on F11 , Iso 800 and got 1/40.
To get at the 1/50 (minimal requirement) i had to go to Iso 1000
- 3rd shot (again something different) , F11 i had to go to Iso 1250 to get an 1/100
Is this normal ? Because MTVision said i dont need 1250 at daytime , but i'm not far away from it (or sometimes on it to get a "descent" shutterspeed)
And the shutterspeed isnt extremely high , so if i want to photograph an "fast" moving vehicle i have to go even higher ?

pictures with exif (iso choosen by me to get atleast 1/50 shutter / S or F picked first is told at the exif)


PS what do you think of the sharpness ?





set A at f/11 , Iso 1000 and got 1/80 , to go higher i had to set Iso 1250 and got 1/100





F/11 , Iso 1000 got 1/80
=>On a simular picture i tried to take : F11 (set by me), iso 800 got 1/40
F11 , iso 1000 gave me 1/50





This one is set my shutter first
S 1/125 , Iso 640 , got F5 and "object to dark" (lightmeter not in the middle (at zero)






set Aperture on f13 , iso 800 and got 1/60


----------



## fjrabon

heavily overcast is different from daylight.  You shouldn't really need 1200 in cloudy most of the time, but you may from time to time if you're using f/11 or or more closed apertures.  

The sharpness seems a little soft to me, but obviously nowhere near as bad as what you had been posting, and also it's gotten hard to tell here, as the forum seems to be softening everything that is posted to it, many have remarked on this.  I think everything is probably fine with these sharpness wise if I was looking at the actual JPEG file.  

Definitely I'd say 90% of your problems have been fixed though.


----------



## EchoingWhisper

You need to thoroughly understand the EXPOSURE TRIANGLE. I've learned it before I bought the Nikon D5100 and I've never experience any problem with exposure. Sharpness is defined by the lens, amount of motion blur, the focus point and the aperture, but the most important factor is still the focus point. Click the 'i' button on the back of your camera, then select AF-S as the AF mode, choose the AF point where you want in focus later. Nikon D5100 is one of the best camera for its price, don't worry, you've bought the right gear.

I have a suggestion for you, if you want to ensure right exposure for almost every single shot and you don't want to think about exposure, set your kit lens at its widest aperture, set the shutter speed so that it is 1/(focal length) and set the ISO at auto, it'll ensure you have the right exposure in almost all condition.


----------



## fjrabon

EchoingWhisper said:


> You need to thoroughly understand the EXPOSURE TRIANGLE. I've learned it before I bought the Nikon D5100 and I've never experience any problem with exposure. Sharpness is defined by the lens, amount of motion blur, the focus point and the aperture, but the most important factor is still the focus point. Click the 'i' button on the back of your camera, then select AF-S as the AF mode, choose the AF point where you want in focus later. Nikon D5100 is one of the best camera for its price, don't worry, you've bought the right gear.
> 
> I have a suggestion for you, if you want to ensure right exposure for almost every single shot and you don't want to think about exposure, set your kit lens at its widest aperture, set the shutter speed so that it is 1/(focal length) and set the ISO at auto, it'll ensure you have the right exposure in almost all condition.



well, the issue is that he seems to really like having everything in the entire frame in focus, which I guess is his preference, hence the very closed apertures.  THough it's hard to tell sometimes with the language barrier.


----------



## o hey tyler

I'm surprised that new DSLRs do not calculate shutter speed based on the focal length being used in full auto, especially even when the ISO is on Auto. It could have brought it from 1/4s @ ISO 100 to 1/60s @ ISO 1600 and got the same exposure, and mostly eliminate that camera shake. 

I guess consistent exposure, and negating camera shake are all the reasons I need to shoot on manual.


----------



## o hey tyler

Also, OP, when you say you "set your shutter speed first" does that mean that you put your camera mode dial on "Tv", or "S" and set your shutter speed, and then put it on "A" or "Av" to set your aperture? If so, that's not doing a thing for you. 

When you camera is set you Tv or S, you are selecting the Shutter speed and that is the only variable you can control while in that mode (other than ISO, but yours is on auto). Changing the mode dial to "A" or "Av", you are only using the aperture value as your variable, so the shutter speed you chose on "S" is not going to reflect in the aperture priority mode. 

What it SOUNDS like you are trying to do is set your camera manually, as if it were in manual mode. Which is what I suggest you do. 

Get your camera out on a tripod during mid-day. Turn your ISO to 100, and take it off Auto ISO. Put your camera on "M" (for manual). Look through your viewfinder and look at your light meter (-2...-1...0...1...2). It will probably have the line flashing on one side or the other, indicating under, or over exposure. Zoom your lens out to the widest setting (probably 18mm), and set your aperture on f/4. Now, by only adjusting the SHUTTER SPEED in manual mode, you should change the shutter speed until the line is directly underneath the 0 on the light meter. Now, take your picture. Your settings will be ISO 100, @ f/4 with 1/XXXseconds for your shutter. Make sure you do this during mid-day or while there is adequate light just to achieve a proper exposure with more ideal settings.


----------



## MTVision

There are 6+ correct exposures for every scene so just because you get 1 setting doesn't mean that's the only one that will work for that scene.


----------



## o hey tyler

MTVision said:


> There are 6+ correct exposures for every scene so just because you get 1 setting doesn't mean that's the only one that will work for that scene.



Is this directed at me? You realize I am just getting the OP to properly expose a photo with more ideal settings, correct? Trying them to do an exercise in manual mode to learn a little bit about the exposure triangle rather than continue on the same trend of "small aperture, slow shutter speed, high ISO". I didn't once say that ISO 100, f/4, 1/xxx seconds is the only exposure for the scene, but it's a lot better than 55mm, ISO 1600 @ f/7.1, 1/40s. As a matter of fact, I calculated a different exposure at a higher ISO to eliminate camera shake in the post before last, so it's pretty clear I myself understand exposure. 

If that wasn't directed at me, please disregard.


----------



## EchoingWhisper

There's no point shooting smaller than f/16, diffraction will be so wild that the entire picture will become soft, the extra depth of field will be non-existent in landscape shots.


----------



## MTVision

o hey tyler said:
			
		

> Is this directed at me? You realize I am just getting the OP to properly expose a photo with more ideal settings, correct? Trying them to do an exercise in manual mode to learn a little bit about the exposure triangle rather than continue on the same trend of "small aperture, slow shutter speed, high ISO". I didn't once say that ISO 100, f/4, 1/xxx seconds is the only exposure for the scene, but it's a lot better than 55mm, ISO 1600 @ f/7.1, 1/40s. As a matter of fact, I calculated a different exposure at a higher ISO to eliminate camera shake in the post before last, so it's pretty clear I myself understand exposure.
> 
> If that wasn't directed at me, please disregard.



No not at you Tyler!  I would hope you know more than I do, which you do!


----------



## o hey tyler

MTVision said:


> o hey tyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is this directed at me? You realize I am just getting the OP to properly expose a photo with more ideal settings, correct? Trying them to do an exercise in manual mode to learn a little bit about the exposure triangle rather than continue on the same trend of "small aperture, slow shutter speed, high ISO". I didn't once say that ISO 100, f/4, 1/xxx seconds is the only exposure for the scene, but it's a lot better than 55mm, ISO 1600 @ f/7.1, 1/40s. As a matter of fact, I calculated a different exposure at a higher ISO to eliminate camera shake in the post before last, so it's pretty clear I myself understand exposure.
> 
> If that wasn't directed at me, please disregard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No not at you Tyler!  I would hope you know more than I do, which you do!
Click to expand...


Gotcha dudette! No worries! :hug::


----------



## marcdax

@ O hey Tyler : No , you got me wrong. If I say that i set the shutter first , I mean that i f.e. set my shutter at 1/125 and that the camera gave me (f.e.) f 7.1 or the other way around.
I know it would be silly to set S an than go to A  . I know that i have to be on M to adjust them both .
But thanks for mentioning it 

@EchoingWhisperer : AF-s is set on my camera.
And everybody says NOT to set iso on auto.

I know for those pictures f/11 is maybe a little to low , but I was talking in general.
And the same in Automode or P mode (if you look at the 2 triumphphotos). They aren't really sharp.

F.E. like this picture is shot with an D5100 (courtesy Ken Rockwell) and i saw other pictures on reviews that are really sharp also (tested with kitlens)







And thanks for the answers !


----------



## fjrabon

marcdax said:


> @ O hey Tyler : No , you got me wrong. If I say that i set the shutter first , I mean that i f.e. set my shutter at 1/125 and that the camera gave me (f.e.) f 7.1 or the other way around.
> I know it would be silly to set S an than go to A  . I know that i have to be on M to adjust them both .
> But thanks for mentioning it
> 
> I know for those pictures f/11 is maybe a little to low , but I was talking in general.
> And the same in Automode or P mode (if you look at the 2 triumphphotos).
> 
> F.E. like this picture is shot with an D5100 (courtesy Ken Rockwell) and i saw other pictures on reviews that are really sharp also (tested with kitlens)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And thanks for the answers !



That was shot in mid day, perfectly clear sun, by a pro, with (who likely has steadier hands than you).  Overcast v. mid day clear sun will make a huge difference in perceived softness/sharpness.  The camera itself has almost nothing to do with how sharp your pictures are.


----------



## marcdax

Okay , i can see what you mean 
I just keep asking  , the only way I'm going to get it right.

1.Can i set the noise wrong ?
When i enlarge my pictures they all look unsharp , like with noise , kinda blurry.

2. I've taken a look at all the pictures i've taken on Automode.
What got my attention :
All of the pictures have like the shutter very low , even if the iso(always around 800) is not that low
F.e. normal day , not cloudy but not sunny , the exif was f/9 , 1/30 iso 800
another one was iso 800 , 1/20 , f/8 , not the most sunny day , but not heavely clouded (you can see brightness on the left)
Lens was the 55-200 , shot at 135mm.





3. I have a question about this picture :
distance (taken on a rooftop , that on the picture is also on a rooftop) about 60 meters
f4.5 , shutter 1/1000 , iso 100 , lens (42-150) largest at 150mm
Do you think this is sharp , looking at the data of the exif.
And why is this one not blury or noisy when expanded to full size ?







thanks again


----------



## MTVision

marcdax said:
			
		

> Okay , i can see what you mean
> I just keep asking  , the only way I'm going to get it right.
> 
> 1.Can i set the noise wrong ?
> When i enlarge my pictures they all look unsharp , like with noise , kinda blurry.
> 
> 2. I've taken a look at all the pictures i've taken on Automode.
> What got my attention :
> All of the pictures have like the shutter very low , even if the iso(always around 800) is not that low
> F.e. normal day , not cloudy but not sunny , the exif was f/9 , 1/30 iso 800
> another one was iso 800 , 1/20 , f/8 , not the most sunny day , but not heavely clouded (you can see brightness on the left)
> Lens was the 55-200 , shot at 135mm.
> 
> 3. I have a question about this picture :
> distance (taken on a rooftop , that on the picture is also on a rooftop) about 60 meters
> f4.5 , shutter 1/1000 , iso 100 , lens (42-150) largest at 150mm
> Do you think this is sharp , looking at the data of the exif.
> And why is this one not blury or noisy when expanded to full size ?
> 
> thanks again



You cant set the noise.  Iso and underexposure cause noise. You can shoot at a pretty high ISO with minimal noise but only if the exposure is right on. If you Underexpose the photo there will be more noise. Blurry photos are usually due to user error - focusing, shutter speed. You can have sharp photos with noise (which looks like grain). 

In auto the camera is going to set the camera to what it determines will work best for the scene. There isn't much you can do about how your cameras auto mode works. That is why you should learn about exposure then you can use manual, aperture and shutter priority more effectively. 

That picture probably isn't blurry or noisy because of the settings. 1/1000 is fast and the low ISO helps in creating a pictures without noise.


----------



## marcdax

MTVision said:


> You cant set the noise. Iso and underexposure cause noise. You can shoot at a pretty high ISO with minimal noise but only if the exposure is right on. If you Underexpose the photo there will be more noise. Blurry photos are usually due to user error - focusing, shutter speed. You can have sharp photos with noise (which looks like grain).


Okay , but user error cant be if I shoot on Automode. So the picture of the Triumph is the best this camera can do ? (on automode)
And in the menu there's an Noise reduction (you can set this to high , middle , low or off)
So if the lightmeter is on 0 the exposure is good , no ? Or if you dont see it in the screen or viewer.
So you got the same camera , do you have to use the same high ISO values ?



> In auto the camera is going to set the camera to what it determines will work best for the scene. There isn't much you can do about how your cameras auto mode works. That is why you should learn about exposure then you can use manual, aperture and shutter priority more effectively.


I can understand and I do understand but what will make my picture sharp ? And how can I say it , i know what makes a sharp picture , all the things you said , like aperture and shutter has a certain minimal speed , focus , .....
So why do they all say (I know , this isn't the way to exercise the art of photography) just point and click and there's a sharp image (in Automode) ?
But like someone said (thought O hey.......) , why doesnt it take the proper or better settings ?



> That picture probably isn't blurry or noisy because of the settings. 1/1000 is fast and the low ISO helps in creating a pictures without noise.


I know , but why is it relativily sharp at a low f4.6 at 60meters of distance ? at the max of the lens ?
And this one is taken on Automode (so chosen by the camera itself)
And this one can do a 1/1000 on a light cloudy day at Iso 100 ? How does this come ?

Is there such a big difference between cameras regarding ISO values ?
because under the same conditions with the Nikon it goes (or you have to set it yourself this high) 800 , i mean a cloudy day f.e. and get a slower shutterspeed.

And for the record , I'm just asking


----------



## o hey tyler

You need to understand that to get sharper photos:

a.) Your shutter speed NEEDS to be 1/focal length to get shots that aren't blurry. Meaning, if you are shooting at 55mm, your shutter speed NEEDS to be above 1/60s. It should really be more like 1/80s since you are using a crop frame DSLR, but that's not as important. 

b.) Your ISO NEEDS to be as low as it can be for you to achieve a 1/60s or 1/80s shutter speed. If you are shooting at 55mm, your ISO is on 200 and your shutter speed is at 1/30s, your exposure meter is indicating that you are properly exposing the photograph (the line will be underneath the 0). That means you can change your ISO to 400, which will make the meter go to +1, and put your shutter speed to 1/60s which will bring the meter back to 0 and reduce camera shake. This is applicable to manual mode only, assuming that aperture stays constant. 

This is a gross generalization and would not be applicable to all situations. Only to help you learn what it takes to properly expose a photograph with the least amount of noise possible.


----------



## fjrabon

I think one thing is that while you seem to understand sort of how the three work together, you dont seem to understand what they do, or at least it's not coming across.

So:

1) Aperture - controls, first and foremost how quickly light goes into the camera.  Think of a correct exposure like a cup, we need to fill it just right to get it properly exposed.  Too much and the cup overflows and we're overexposed.  THink of it this way, the higher the f/stop number, the more slowly you're pouring light into the cup.  The lower the stop number, the faster the pour.  

Aperture also controls your depth of field.  Higher f/stop numbers mean that you're going to have more of the scene that seems in focus.  

To a lesser extent aperture also controls contrast, sharpness (at extreme apertures sharpness is reduced) and saturation, but that's getting a little advanced.  Try not to shoot above f/16 and you should be fine.  the best f/stops for the Nikon kit lens tend to be f/6, f/8 and f/11.  I occasionally use f/13 for deep depth of field or f/5 for shallow depth of field.  

2) Shutter speed - this is essentially how long you're pouring light into the cup.  Too short and we don't get enough light in the cup.  Too long and we overflow again. 

Shutter speed also controls motion blur and camera shake blur.  The longer the shutter speed, the more stuff can move around (including the camera in your hands), and thus the blurrier things get.  The faster your shutter speed, the less things can blur, the sharper things are.  Now this only works to sharpen movement.  It won't help if you're out of focus, or at an extreme aperture, and are getting blur from somewhere other than motion.  Extreme shutter speeds can also cause noise, but this effect isn't usually very significant.  

A good rule of thumb with the kit lens is using the reciprocal of the focal length as the guide.  Your lens is equipped with vibration reduction.  If you are actually having a problem with unsharp images, the most likely culprit isn't the camera, it's that the vibration reduction in the lens could be messed up.  If you follow all these guidelines and are still having problems with sharpness have the lens checked out.  Also try turning off the vibration reduction and shooting on a tripod.  

3) ISO - this is essentially like controlling the size of the cup.  The higher your ISO, the smaller the cup.  ISO 3200 is like a thimble, ISO 100 is like a liter mug.  That is, with a higher ISO, you need less light to properly expose your photo, enabling faster shutter speeds and higher f/stop numbers (that is narrower apertures).  

ISO also controls noise in the image.  Little dots and grains that pop up.  High ISO will have more noise, especially when combined with longer shutter speeds.  Now with your D5100, this effect won't be significant until you get to ISO 1600.  The D5100 has amazing low noise operation at ISO's under 1600, and usually the noise they generate is negligible.  Now, you will get lower noise at ISO 100 than ISO 400, but you won't really be able to tell in most scenarios.  Lower ISOs tend ot have slightly more contrast and saturation, but this effect is pretty negligible and shouldn't really be a concern most of the time.


----------



## MTVision

marcdax said:
			
		

> Okay , but user error cant be if I shoot on Automode. So the picture of the Triumph is the best this camera can do ? (on automode)
> And in the menu there's an Noise reduction (you can set this to high , middle , low or off)
> So if the lightmeter is on 0 the exposure is good , no ? Or if you dont see it in the screen or viewer.
> So you got the same camera , do you have to use the same high ISO values ?
> 
> I can understand and I do understand but what will make my picture sharp ? And how can I say it , i know what makes a sharp picture , all the things you said , like aperture and shutter has a certain minimal speed , focus , .....
> So why do they all say (I know , this isn't the way to exercise the art of photography) just point and click and there's a sharp image (in Automode) ?
> But like someone said (thought O hey.......) , why doesnt it take the proper or better settings ?
> 
> I know , but why is it relativily sharp at a low f4.6 at 60meters of distance ? at the max of the lens ?
> And this one is taken on Automode (so chosen by the camera itself)
> And this one can do a 1/1000 on a light cloudy day at Iso 100 ? How does this come ?
> 
> Is there such a big difference between cameras regarding ISO values ?
> because under the same conditions with the Nikon it goes (or you have to set it yourself this high) 800 , i mean a cloudy day f.e. and get a slower shutterspeed.
> 
> And for the record , I'm just asking



Auto mode isn't perfect - that is what I'm trying to say! And it can still be user error if you can't hold the camera still, if you aren't focusing properly, and many other things. You make photos NOT the camera. Focusing is a skill. It takes practice. I have pictures that were taken on auto - some of them suck, some of them are OK and only a few are great. Now, my pictures are a lot better since I've done research and I've practiced. Auto is going to pick 1 of numerous settings for you but it may not be the perfect one. Have you researched anything I said too - like the metering modes. That could be one of the issues and I'm not certain you can change it on auto. Why buy an expensive camera to shoot it on auto? If you aren't going to use auto then who cares how poor it works. I've tried auto recently and it did not work for me. The settings it chose were not what I would've chosen and the pictures didn't come out as good as they could've been. 

Metering to 0 isn't always going to give a good exposure and it depends on the metering mode as well. I keep my ISO at 100 all the time. If my shutter speed isn't high enough for me to handhold I will either raise the ISO or choose a larger aperture. You would most likely have to raise the ISO because your lens doesn't have a large aperture. My lenses open up to f/1.4 and f/2.8. I do use the kit lens as well. Noise reduction in the camera is for high ISO's. I keep my noise reduction off and fix it in post. I also shoot in RAW so none of the in camera settings affect the picture. 

Skill will make your picture sharp. F/8 is probably the aperture that is the sharpest but you have to nail your focus. Also there is anti-aliasing filter which can cause your photos to look a little soft. They need to e sharpened slightly in an editing program. I've never heard - point and shoot and you'll get a sharp image. Point an shoot cameras are meant to take decent images but unless you know what you are doing they won't be sharp. 

1/1000 at ISO 100 in the daylight is a normal setting. 

Like I said before there are 6+ correct exposures for every scene. Your camera on auto chooses one of those many settings. Forget about auto and learn how to use your camera - its as easy as that. Understanding exposure by Bryan Peterson - buy it and read it. 

You don't have to set your ISO to 800 on a cloudy day - you can choose too. Usually when you raise your ISO your shutter speed goes higher not lower. If you do some research you will understand this. Everything that's being written to you has been said in one way or another by everyone. You obviously aren't getting it because you don't understand ISO, aperture, shutter speed, metering MODES, etc.


----------



## MTVision

This is the only image I have on flick that was taken with auto. The lens is the 55-300. It was at 72mm 1/1000 ISO 560 (on auto) f/4.5. This was the day I got my camera and had no idea what I was doing. This was one of the few that came out good - beginners luck. Most didn't come out that great because auto is not magic.


----------



## MTVision

fjrabon said:
			
		

> I think one thing is that while you seem to understand sort of how the three work together, you dont seem to understand what they do, or at least it's not coming across.
> 
> So:
> 
> 1) Aperture - controls, first and foremost how quickly light goes into the camera.  Think of a correct exposure like a cup, we need to fill it just right to get it properly exposed.  Too much and the cup overflows and we're overexposed.  THink of it this way, the higher the f/stop number, the more slowly you're pouring light into the cup.  The lower the stop number, the faster the pour.
> 
> Aperture also controls your depth of field.  Higher f/stop numbers mean that you're going to have more of the scene that seems in focus.
> 
> To a lesser extent aperture also controls contrast, sharpness (at extreme apertures sharpness is reduced) and saturation, but that's getting a little advanced.  Try not to shoot above f/16 and you should be fine.  the best f/stops for the Nikon kit lens tend to be f/6, f/8 and f/11.  I occasionally use f/13 for deep depth of field or f/5 for shallow depth of field.
> 
> 2) Shutter speed - this is essentially how long you're pouring light into the cup.  Too short and we don't get enough light in the cup.  Too long and we overflow again.
> 
> Shutter speed also controls motion blur and camera shake blur.  The longer the shutter speed, the more stuff can move around (including the camera in your hands), and thus the blurrier things get.  The faster your shutter speed, the less things can blur, the sharper things are.  Now this only works to sharpen movement.  It won't help if you're out of focus, or at an extreme aperture, and are getting blur from somewhere other than motion.  Extreme shutter speeds can also cause noise, but this effect isn't usually very significant.
> 
> A good rule of thumb with the kit lens is using the reciprocal of the focal length as the guide.  Your lens is equipped with vibration reduction.  If you are actually having a problem with unsharp images, the most likely culprit isn't the camera, it's that the vibration reduction in the lens could be messed up.  If you follow all these guidelines and are still having problems with sharpness have the lens checked out.  Also try turning off the vibration reduction and shooting on a tripod.
> 
> 3) ISO - this is essentially like controlling the size of the cup.  The higher your ISO, the smaller the cup.  ISO 3200 is like a thimble, ISO 100 is like a liter mug.  That is, with a higher ISO, you need less light to properly expose your photo, enabling faster shutter speeds and higher f/stop numbers (that is narrower apertures).
> 
> ISO also controls noise in the image.  Little dots and grains that pop up.  High ISO will have more noise, especially when combined with longer shutter speeds.  Now with your D5100, this effect won't be significant until you get to ISO 1600.  The D5100 has amazing low noise operation at ISO's under 1600, and usually the noise they generate is negligible.  Now, you will get lower noise at ISO 100 than ISO 400, but you won't really be able to tell in most scenarios.  Lower ISOs tend ot have slightly more contrast and saturation, but this effect is pretty negligible and shouldn't really be a concern most of the time.



You will get lower noise at ISO 100 but....fjrabon would probably have less noise in an image he took at ISO 400 then you would at ISO 100. You can take photos with minimal noise at high ISO's but you have to know how to expose them perfectly. Underexposed photos will have more noise in them.


----------



## fjrabon

MTVision said:


> This is the only image I have on flick that was taken with auto. The lens is the 55-300. It was at 72mm 1/1000 ISO 560 (on auto) f/4.5. This was the day I got my camera and had no idea what I was doing. This was one of the few that came out good - beginners luck. Most didn't come out that great because auto is not magic.



Another point to consider is that the more normal your shooting situation is, the better auto works.  How auto works is by comparing your image to an inbuilt database of 'similar seeming' images, picking the images that match the best to what you have, and then applying the setting that a pro would have exposed the images in the database at.  THe weakness in that chain is the comparing images part.  The easier your images match up to things in the database, the better auto works.  Thus auto is actually pretty good at snapshots of people, basic landscapes, animals, etc.  It's not so good at random objects colored random colors, night photography (unless you have it on the night portrait mode), abnormal landscapes, abstract pictures, etc.  Basically think 'how likely would this type of picture pop up on facebook?' and you'll have an idea of how well auto will work.

edit: also, cute kid Megan, is that your little girl?


----------



## marcdax

MTVision said:


> You don't have to set your ISO to 800 on a cloudy day - you can choose too. Usually when you raise your ISO your shutter speed goes higher not lower. If you do some research you will understand this. Everything that's being written to you has been said in one way or another by everyone. You obviously aren't getting it because you don't understand ISO, aperture, shutter speed, metering MODES, etc.


I know that i come across like I don't understand it , seems like I can't bring it over.
But on what you say in the quote :
I do need to set my ISO at 800 otherwise my shutterspeed is below 1/50 , believe it or not.
I need to get my iso higher to get my shutterspeed up , i know , that's why they are so high.
Could you do me a favor and just for a second forget about the exposure triangle that you think i don't get , could you do that for me ?
On the 4 pictures , what iso would you have used or thought you would use , cause you say i dont need to go that high.
My lightmetering is on "matrix"

The picture of those bricks , shutterspeed is 1/125 (set by me - told in this topic to be a good shutter) , the camera came with F5 (so a lot of light comes in) at iso 640 chosen by me, lower iso400 i went (havent written it down) to 1/80 or 1/60

On a picture i was looking to take , i did the following :
Set aperture on f11
I set my iso on 800
=> The camera gave me a shutterspeed of 1/40
So i raised it because i know that my ss goes up
I set it on 1000 => the camera gave me 1/50

* So what am I doing wrong ????????*(only thing i could do is lower my f so i gets more open, but what if i want to take a picture at that aperture)

- now in my own words (so you can see i do understand it) an example :
 F with a low number is (f.e.) like a circle with diameter 9 ; f with a high number is like a diameter 2
1/5 (of a second) handheld is not good because you have to keep steady (not move) for that amount of time , if you have 1/250 (of a second) its faster so the chance of moving becomes a lot less.
Iso : if you have a iso 100 you will have less noise than at iso 1600 or higher. If i set my F on f.e. 15 and at iso 400 i get a shutterspeed of 1/40 , i can set it higher to raise my shutterspeed to f.e. 1/60
I really do understand , hopefully i come over now correctly.
example :
I set my F at 5 , so f/5 (a whole lot of light coming in) and i have my iso set on 100 , the camera gives me s/40.
So i need to have atleast 55 (mm/ss) , so i have to raise my Iso higher to do the same with my shutterspeed.
So i set it to (f.e.) to 250 and the camera gives me in combination with my F/5 a shutterspeed of 1/60
This 1/60 is the minimal i need.
It would be better to have it higher , but i have to look out for overexposure.

Just the only thing i need a confirmation , think i'm correct but to be sure:
mm/ss , so 55 lens is atleast 1/60.
If you shoot at f.e. at 135mm (55-200 lens) , than i need to be at 1/125 atleast to shoot handheld ?
That's a thing i need to know (and i'm honest that i have a doubt about that)


----------



## MTVision

marcdax said:
			
		

> I know that i come across like I don't understand it , seems like I can't bring it over.
> But on what you say in the quote :
> I do need to set my ISO at 800 otherwise my shutterspeed is below 1/50 , believe it or not.
> I need to get my iso higher to get my shutterspeed up , i know , that's why they are so high.
> Could you do me a favor and just for a second forget about the exposure triangle that you think i don't get , could you do that for me ?
> On the 4 pictures , what iso would you have used or thought you would use , cause you say i dont need to go that high.
> My lightmetering is on "matrix"
> 
> The picture of those bricks , shutterspeed is 1/125 (set by me - told in this topic to be a good shutter) , the camera came with F5 (so a lot of light comes in) at iso 640 chosen by me, lower iso400 i went (havent written it down) to 1/80 or 1/60
> 
> On a picture i was looking to take , i did the following :
> Set aperture on f11
> I set my iso on 800
> => The camera gave me a shutterspeed of 1/40
> So i raised it because i know that my ss goes up
> I set it on 1000 => the camera gave me 1/50
> 
> * So what am I doing wrong ????????*(only thing i could do is lower my f so i gets more open, but what if i want to take a picture at that aperture)
> 
> - now in my own words (so you can see i do understand it) an example :
> F with a low number is (f.e.) like a circle with diameter 9 ; f with a high number is like a diameter 2
> 1/5 (of a second) handheld is not good because you have to keep steady (not move) for that amount of time , if you have 1/250 (of a second) its faster so the chance of moving becomes a lot less.
> Iso : if you have a iso 100 you will have less noise than at iso 1600 or higher. If i set my F on f.e. 15 and at iso 400 i get a shutterspeed of 1/40 , i can set it higher to raise my shutterspeed to f.e. 1/60
> I really do understand , hopefully i come over now correctly.
> example :
> I set my F at 5 , so f/5 (a whole lot of light coming in) and i have my iso set on 100 , the camera gives me s/40.
> So i need to have atleast 55 (mm/ss) , so i have to raise my Iso higher to do the same with my shutterspeed.
> So i set it to (f.e.) to 250 and the camera gives me in combination with my F/5 a shutterspeed of 1/60
> This 1/60 is the minimal i need.
> It would be better to have it higher , but i have to look out for overexposure.
> 
> Just the only thing i need a confirmation , think i'm correct but to be sure:
> mm/ss , so 55 lens is atleast 1/60.
> If you shoot at f.e. at 135mm (55-200 lens) , than i need to be at 1/125 atleast to shoot handheld ?
> That's a thing i need to know (and i'm honest that i have a doubt about that)



I don't know what your settings should be. Do you understand what matrix does though?

Matrix Metering or Evaluative Metering mode is the default metering mode on most DSLRs. It works similarly to the above example by dividing the entire frame into multiple &ldquo;zones&rdquo;, which are then all analyzed on individual basis for light and dark tones. One of the key factors (in addition to color, distance, subjects, highlights, etc) that affects matrix metering, is where the camera focus point is set to. After reading information from all individual zones, the metering system looks at where you focused within the frame and marks it more important than all other zones. There are many other variables used in the equation, which differ from manufacturer to manufacturer. Nikon, for example, also compares image data to a database of thousands of pictures for exposure calculation.

You should set your ISO last and only if needed. I, personally set my aperture first depending oN what DOF i want, then i adjust the shutter speed and as a last resort my ISO  Also, just because you put in f/5 and the camera gives you a shutter speed of 1/100 doesn't mean that's the only settings you can use for that image or that those are the best settings. Do you get what I'm saying? The camera isn't always correct. So, you understand what aperture, shutter speed and ISO mean but you still aren't getting my point that jut because the camera gives you those settings doesn't mean the exposure will be perfect or that the image will look the best. 

The minimum shutter speed for handholding is the focal length (50mm would be 1/50) but it should really be double the focal length. A faster shutter speed is always better for handholding.


----------



## MTVision

The reason your shutter speed is slow in the 4 pictures you posted (not sure if those were the ones you were talking about) is because you were using such a small aperture. Not much light was coming into the lens at f/11 so you need a longer shutter speed to get more light in. That's why when you used shutter priority mode and set it to 1/125 you got f/5. Are you still using auto ISO? If so, you should take it off auto. Set it at 400 and leave it there. ONLY raise it if you have too. If you set the aperture to f/11 and the shutter speed is too slow choose a larger aperture. If the shutter speed is still too slow then and only then raise your ISO. 

 Small apertures = long shutter speeds
Large apertures = fast shutter speeds


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## MTVision

What would I have used for the 4 pictures on an overcast day? ISO 100 f/5 1/125. I have some pictures taken recently on an overcast day (no sun at all) and those were my settings.


----------



## marcdax

Uhu , i understand what you mean , but than you only take pictures on M ?
Because you can't change shutter on A or aperture on S. 
=> So taking a picture on A or S isnt a good idea also ?

i can see that you can take a picture on several settings (like you can f.e.  say that 12 = 3x4 or 3+3+3+3+ or .........simply said) but Just one thing i don't understand in your explanation :
......you put in F/5 and the camera gives you a shutterspeed of 1/100 doesnt mean .................or that those are the best settings.
Why would that 1/100 not be good ? you say higher is better , correct , but other than that 1/100 would be enough to handheld , unless your very shaky.

Or do you mean (i dont think so , but to be sure) =
i put in F/5 , camera gives me 1/100ss at iso 800
So , i turn to M
i set fo F/5 , set ss1/100 (like minimal requirement) and than my iso at 100 and this would work ?

in concern to matrixmeting :
it's the most common used , partial is mostly for portret with backlight and spotmeting is less used and more difficult.
So i think i dont need to think a lot about that i presume ?!


----------



## marcdax

MTVision said:


> The reason your shutter speed is slow in the 4 pictures you posted (not sure if those were the ones you were talking about) is because you were using such a small aperture. Not much light was coming into the lens at f/11 so you need a longer shutter speed to get more light in. That's why when you used shutter priority mode and set it to 1/125 you got f/5. Are you still using auto ISO? If so, you should take it off auto. Set it at 400 and leave it there. ONLY raise it if you have too. If you set the aperture to f/11 and the shutter speed is too slow choose a larger aperture. If the shutter speed is still too slow then and only then raise your ISO.
> 
> Small apertures = long shutter speeds
> Large apertures = fast shutter speeds


No , i adjust it myself.
Okay , like i said in my other reply , i could have lowered it with an lower f n°.
But what if i want that F n° ?
Fjrabon said that f6-8-11 are the best for this lens.
I can see what you mean with lowering f , more light and ss goes faster , and so on , but F/11 is not that small ?
btw , that ss1/125 and F5 had a ISO 640 and it was "object to dark" , so correct it wasnt also.
So i dont get it why i can't do a 1/125 - f/5 and iso 100 on a cloudy (or overcast) day..............

but now , please forgive me for this one but i have to say it , i will play devils advocate.
You told that it doesnt always give the best or correct combination , so why would that F/5 be the correct one ?
If otherwise when i set my F/.. first my ss isnt the correct one ?????
And please , dont misunderstand me , but this is confusing.
If it sounds mean or something i dont mean it that way !!!!


----------



## MTVision

marcdax said:
			
		

> Uhu , i understand what you mean , but than you only take pictures on M ?
> Because you can't change shutter on A or aperture on S.
> => So taking a picture on A or S isnt a good idea also ?
> 
> i can see that you can take a picture on several settings (like you can f.e.  say that 12 = 3x4 or 3+3+3+3+ or .........simply said) but Just one thing i don't understand in your explanation :
> ......you put in F/5 and the camera gives you a shutterspeed of 1/100 doesnt mean .................or that those are the best settings.
> Why would that 1/100 not be good ? you say higher is better , correct , but other than that 1/100 would be enough to handheld , unless your very shaky.
> 
> Or do you mean (i dont think so , but to be sure) =
> i put in F/5 , camera gives me 1/100ss at iso 800
> So , i turn to M
> i set fo F/5 , set ss1/100 (like minimal requirement) and than my iso at 100 and this would work ?
> 
> in concern to matrixmeting :
> it's the most common used , partial is mostly for portret with backlight and spotmeting is less used and more difficult.
> So i think i dont need to think a lot about that i presume ?!



Spot metering isn't less used nor more difficult - a few websites do say that so i understand how you go to that. A lot of people use spot metering for all types of photography. Spot and partial are basically the same thing. Our camera doesn't have partial. And you do need to think about it since it plays a role in how your pictures will come out. 

You can change your shutter speed on A mode by changin your shutter speed and you can change your aperture on S mode by changing your aperture!  

F/5 and 1/100 might not be the best exposure for that picture. The settings I used f/5 1/125 ISO 100 was because I spot metered off something neutral and then adjusted my settings to get the exposure I wanted. Your settings determine exposure and you can use different settings to get more creative images.  If you understood how exposure works you wouldn't ask "why would 1/100 not be the best." you do realize that aperture and shutter speed work together to expose the picture?!? So, common sense would mean that 1/100 might let in slightly too much light at f/5 so the photo might be slightly overexposed 

How am I suppose to know if 1/100 ISO 100 and f/5 would work for you? That is something you will have to figure out. Take your freakin ISO off auto and set it yourself!  

I'm feel like I'm wasting my time. I'm answering all the same questions and giving the same answers. You tell me to forget about the exposure triangle but then ask me what settings I would use to expose an image.  And if you already know how everything works -exposure and metering (like you say you do) then why are you asking the same questions over and over again?


----------



## MTVision

marcdax said:
			
		

> No , i adjust it myself.
> Okay , like i said in my other reply , i could have lowered it with an lower f n°.
> But what if i want that F n° ?
> Fjrabon said that f6-8-11 are the best for this lens.
> I can see what you mean with lowering f , more light and ss goes faster , and so on , but F/11 is not that small ?
> btw , that ss1/125 and F5 had a ISO 640 and it was "object to dark" , so correct it wasnt also.
> So i dont get it why i can't do a 1/125 - f/5 and iso 100 on a cloudy (or overcast) day..............
> 
> but now , please forgive me for this one but i have to say it , i will play devils advocate.
> You told that it doesnt always give the best or correct combination , so why would that F/5 be the correct one ?
> If otherwise when i set my F/.. first my ss isnt the correct one ?????
> And please , dont misunderstand me , but this is confusing.
> If it sounds mean or something i dont mean it that way !!!!



The settings were correct because that's what I chose - the camera didn't choose any settings for me. I wanted f/5 because I wanted a somewhat shallower depth of field. The shutter speed was used to make sure the photo wasn't under/over exposed. 

If you want f/11 for an aperture then you have to deal with the slow shutter speed and noise if you decide to raise your ISO. I take photos when it says photo too dark.


----------



## marcdax

It's all getting difficult to understand some things and maybe that's why maybe you dont understand what i'm trying to say and otherwise 

Like (and yes , i search and read) I was reading Ken Rockwell about the d5100.
this is a quote like i said "great point and shoot"


> The D5100 makes _great_ photos, even when used as a point-and-shoot. (OK, the shot above was shot by my wife on my D40, but you get the point. The D5100 is even better.) When I hand my D5100 to a non-photographer (like my wife), I leave the D5100 at its defaults of AF-A and Auto Area. This lets the D5100 figure out where to focus, and it works great.​



So i still dont understand why this works for him and mine goes off like crazy. And i dont mean a blury picture at 1/4 (which I know is to long to handhold).
And I'm totally not doubting your knowledge (so i dont get misunderstood) but here people say it won't be right and he says its great , and figures it out by itself.
So who do I need to follow ?

This one makes it confusing also :


> *[xxx] Auto Area* (default) Auto Area lets the D5100 guess which AF area to use. In Auto Area, the D5100 almost always gives a great, in-focus shot.I use this setting almost all of the time.I only use the settings below if Auto Area isn't guessing my subject properly.


You say it's better a single point.
If i focus for example on a cat , i can expect the cat to be sharp right ? Or does Nikon turn out less sharp pictures than other brands ?
(and yes i'd remember that you said you sharpen them afterwards because you take them in RAW)
And that Photo of that little child , I would be happy if they came out that sharp and focussed !

And yes , i told a few posts earlier that i set my iso myself 
but this confuses me again 


> *I use Auto ISO, which lets the D5100 set itself perfectly in any light. *


So why ...................
You see what I mean and that I dont know anymore what/who/how is correct ?!
And it's not the only one (website-review) who says these things.
And the perfect beginner DSLR , get great shots without any knowledge , and so on.........
Are they sponsored to say that ? 

And yes i understand that when the conditions are perfect the picture will be better/perfect also.
And yes , sometimes it's handy if you can make a few quick pictures on Auto , as I can expect of a 1200$ camera. And NO it's not for using it all the time , otherwise i won't be asking these questions 

But , what FJrabon mentioned about that VR , could that mess up my ISO measuring ?
pictures closeby are sharp but if you move away.... and i don't mean a picture at 30cm and than one at 50meters 
And could i compare it with another DSLR (to see what n°'s that turns out) or wouldn't this work with the +6 different ............?


​


----------



## fjrabon

marcdax said:


> But , what FJrabon mentioned about that VR , could that mess up my ISO measuring ?​



VR can't mess up your 'ISO measuring'  All VR might do is make your pictures blurry when they shouldn't be.  I really feel that the D5100 is a bad camera for you and that you should go back to your olympus.  It worked for you, go with what works.


----------



## MTVision

marcdax said:
			
		

> It's all getting difficult to understand some things and maybe that's why maybe you dont understand what i'm trying to say and otherwise
> 
> Like (and yes , i search and read) I was reading Ken Rockwell about the d5100.
> this is a quote like i said "great point and shoot"
> 
> So i still dont understand why this works for him and mine goes off like crazy. And i dont mean a blury picture at 1/4 (which I know is to long to handhold).
> And I'm totally not doubting your knowledge (so i dont get misunderstood) but here people say it won't be right and he says its great , and figures it out by itself.
> So who do I need to follow ?
> 
> This one makes it confusing also :
> 
> You say it's better a single point.
> If i focus for example on a cat , i can expect the cat to be sharp right ? Or does Nikon turn out less sharp pictures than other brands ?
> (and yes i'd remember that you said you sharpen them afterwards because you take them in RAW)
> And that Photo of that little child , I would be happy if they came out that sharp and focussed !
> 
> And yes , i told a few posts earlier that i set my iso myself
> but this confuses me again
> 
> So why ...................
> You see what I mean and that I dont know anymore what/who/how is correct ?!
> And it's not the only one (website-review) who says these things.
> And the perfect beginner DSLR , get great shots without any knowledge , and so on.........
> Are they sponsored to say that ?
> 
> And yes i understand that when the conditions are perfect the picture will be better/perfect also.
> And yes , sometimes it's handy if you can make a few quick pictures on Auto , as I can expect of a 1200$ camera. And NO it's not for using it all the time , otherwise i won't be asking these questions
> 
> But , what FJrabon mentioned about that VR , could that mess up my ISO measuring ?
> pictures closeby are sharp but if you move away.... and i don't mean a picture at 30cm and than one at 50meters
> And could i compare it with another DSLR (to see what n°'s that turns out) or wouldn't this work with the +6 different ............?



If you read Ken Rockwell's "About Me" page, you find this disclaimer:

" I offer no warrantees of any kind, except that there are many deliberate gaffes, practical jokes and downright foolish and made-up things lurking. While this site is mostly accurate, it is neither legally binding nor guaranteed. The only thing I do guarantee is that there is plenty of stuff I simply make up out of thin air, as does The Onion."

For all we know he's never used this camera. If you take a picture of a cat - where would you focus?? On the eyes just like with people. The eyes would be sharp and the rest as long as you have enough DOF and you are doing everything else right. Why don't you experiment with everything and figure out what works for you? Auto can take decent snapshots but not great photographs. Don't follow anybody. Do what works for you. If your photos suck in auto then don't use it - easy as that. 

How exactly would VR mess up ISO? I'm confused there.  

No idea what the rest of your post meant. Most people don't know what crappy photos look like so yeah most people think they take amazing photos when they get their DSLR.  I don't really have anything else to tell you - anything anybody has suggested has been pretty much shot down. 

Why dont you bring it to a canera store and let someone look at the camera or let someone who knows what they are doing use it. Hopefully you figure out auto mode!


----------



## anfibil

Judging by the length of this topic and the number (and variety) of complaints you are reporting, it really does seem like this is not the camera for you. You should get a different one (or go back to the one that made you happy). I've had my D5100 for a while and despite it having its limitations, it has been a great camera for me. I've learned quite a lot with this camera (it's actually my first DSLR), and I must say that most of what I learned came from the lengthy and detailed manual that was included in the box  Here are some of my images, all taken with my D5100, including some night shots with very long exposure. To my eyes at least, the camera did a good job.


----------



## marcdax

MTVision said:


> You can change your shutter speed on A mode by changin your shutter speed and you can change your aperture on S mode by changing your aperture!


If I'm on A the only way i can change my shutterspeed is by changing the A(perture) and when I'm at f/5 it won't change at all (unless I go to a higher F n°)
I've looked at the manual (page 61-66) but no mentioning how i possibly could do that .
So how do i do that or did you mean it like I said ?

My former camera I don't have anymore and i don't know how it is in the USA , but here we can't bring it back. sold is sold , no refund or exchange.
And to loose 250$ on a camera that's about 3 weeks old 

I don't shoot everything down , maybe it seems like that , but it isn't.
And if I weren't looking and reading and trying to find the right way i wouldn't have all those "comments".
I don't say I didn't believe you , I don't say i believe KR.
I'm a byciclemecanic and if I told you that most of the brands buy the frames in China and someone told you something different , you would ask things to find out more.


----------



## marcdax

anfibil said:


> Judging by the length of this topic and the number (and variety) of complaints you are reporting, it really does seem like this is not the camera for you. You should get a different one (or go back to the one that made you happy). I've had my D5100 for a while and despite it having its limitations, it has been a great camera for me. I've learned quite a lot with this camera (it's actually my first DSLR), and I must say that most of what I learned came from the lengthy and detailed manual that was included in the box  Here are some of my images, all taken with my D5100, including some night shots with very long exposure. To my eyes at least, the camera did a good job.


first of all , very nice pictures.
Do you set everything yourself or set f.e. S or A and let the camera do the rest ?

second : the manual
first thing about picture taking is page 26 and that is automode and automode no flash
page 30-34 are the different subjects (close up , landscape , ......)
39-45 is the focuspoints (af-s , single , 3d , .....)
page 61-98 is PSAM : 61-68
69-98 has the lightmeting - lightcorrection (+/- button) , flashcorrection , active d lighting , hdr , multiple lighting , white balance , picture control
from than on its how to make a movie , special effects , display , personal settings , setup menu , enhanchingmenu.
So is that the same you guys have of the manual or is it more stupid in Dutch ? I have the printed version next to me and it's 260 pages.
So if you say read the manual i read from 39-45 and from 68 till 98 and skip a few pages ? 
everything after 98 is more how to set the camera and where to find it (and by setting I mean the menu by accessing with the button on the left)

So is it in English more detailed or ?


----------



## MTVision

marcdax said:
			
		

> If I'm on A the only way i can change my shutterspeed is by changing the A(perture) and when I'm at f/5 it won't change at all (unless I go to a higher F n°)
> I've looked at the manual (page 61-66) but no mentioning how i possibly could do that .
> So how do i do that or did you mean it like I said ?
> 
> My former camera I don't have anymore and i don't know how it is in the USA , but here we can't bring it back. sold is sold , no refund or exchange.
> And to loose 250$ on a camera that's about 3 weeks old
> 
> I don't shoot everything down , maybe it seems like that , but it isn't.
> And if I weren't looking and reading and trying to find the right way i wouldn't have all those "comments".
> I don't say I didn't believe you , I don't say i believe KR.
> I'm a byciclemecanic and if I told you that most of the brands buy the frames in China and someone told you different , you would ask things to find out more.



Yeah I wrote it backwards. On A Mode you change your shutter speed by changing your aperture. If you are on f/5 the shutter speed won't change. You have to change the aperture to change the shutter speed. On s mode - changing the shutter speed changes the aperture. 

Everything you are saying/asking proves my point. You need to spend more time trying to understand/learn your camera and exposure. You may know what all the elements are but how do you put them together to create a beautiful photo? 

In an earlier post you said something like "what if I wanted my aperture at f/11". What will your picture look like at f/11? Do you know why you would want to take a picture at f/11? And the correct answer is not because you were told it's a sharp aperture. 

You are shooting everything down. Ken Rockwell said its a great point and shoot - obviously on a photography forum everyone is going to disagree with you. Auto cannot make creative photos but it can take decent pictures. I guess I just don't get it.  You may be reading everything but have you tried anything people have suggested? I'm not asking you to believe me - if you think something is wrong with your camera bring it into a camera store to get it looked at.


----------



## EchoingWhisper

marcdax said:


> @ O hey Tyler : No , you got me wrong. If I say that i set the shutter first , I mean that i f.e. set my shutter at 1/125 and that the camera gave me (f.e.) f 7.1 or the other way around.
> I know it would be silly to set S an than go to A  . I know that i have to be on M to adjust them both .
> But thanks for mentioning it
> 
> @EchoingWhisperer : AF-s is set on my camera.
> And everybody says NOT to set iso on auto.
> 
> I know for those pictures f/11 is maybe a little to low , but I was talking in general.
> And the same in Automode or P mode (if you look at the 2 triumphphotos). They aren't really sharp.
> 
> F.E. like this picture is shot with an D5100 (courtesy Ken Rockwell) and i saw other pictures on reviews that are really sharp also (tested with kitlens)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And thanks for the answers !



Why not? If you know what to do, auto ISO will save you time.


----------



## anfibil

marcdax said:


> anfibil said:
> 
> 
> 
> Judging by the length of this topic and the number (and variety) of complaints you are reporting, it really does seem like this is not the camera for you. You should get a different one (or go back to the one that made you happy). I've had my D5100 for a while and despite it having its limitations, it has been a great camera for me. I've learned quite a lot with this camera (it's actually my first DSLR), and I must say that most of what I learned came from the lengthy and detailed manual that was included in the box  Here are some of my images, all taken with my D5100, including some night shots with very long exposure. To my eyes at least, the camera did a good job.
> 
> 
> 
> first of all , very nice pictures.
> Do you set everything yourself or set f.e. S or A and let the camera do the rest ?
> 
> second : the manual
> first thing about picture taking is page 26 and that is automode and automode no flash
> page 30-34 are the different subjects (close up , landscape , ......)
> 39-45 is the focuspoints (af-s , single , 3d , .....)
> page 61-98 is PSAM : 61-68
> 69-98 has the lightmeting - lightcorrection (+/- button) , flashcorrection , active d lighting , hdr , multiple lighting , white balance , picture control
> from than on its how to make a movie , special effects , display , personal settings , setup menu , enhanchingmenu.
> So is that the same you guys have of the manual or is it more stupid in Dutch ? I have the printed version next to me and it's 260 pages.
> So if you say read the manual i read from 39-45 and from 68 till 98 and skip a few pages ?
> everything after 98 is more how to set the camera and where to find it (and by setting I mean the menu by accessing with the button on the left)
> 
> So is it in English more detailed or ?
Click to expand...


Thank you. Answering your questions about the settings... I do try to take most of the pictures in full manual and I only bump up the ISO when I really have to (i.e., need to take faster pictures at lower light), but when I'm in a hurry I'll eventually use Aperture priority as well. 

At first I was also letting the camera select the ISO for me, but it seemed like it would always choose very high numbers that would give me nothing but noise. Doing that by hand works just fine, so I really do encourage you to do that yourself. For all the other settings, it seems to me that the camera does a fine job selecting what it needs to select for a good exposure. 

As for the manual, I'm from Brazil and my manual is actually in Portuguese. But seems to be equivalent to what you described. Also, you can get the English version of the manual here if you wish.


----------



## MTVision

EchoingWhisper said:
			
		

> Why not? If you know what to do, auto ISO will save you time.



But auto ISO can give you pretty high ISO's in situations where it's not needed.


----------



## cgipson1

MTVision said:


> EchoingWhisper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why not? If you know what to do, auto ISO will save you time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But auto ISO can give you pretty high ISO's in situations where it's not needed.
Click to expand...


Megan, I agree totally! 

Echoing Whisper:  I would much rather take the 3 or 4 second it takes to manually set my ISO (if shooting manual).. it takes less time than that in Aperture Priority! So where are the "time savings"? lol! If it takes you longer than that, you need more practice!


----------



## marcdax

MTVision said:


> In an earlier post you said something like "what if I wanted my aperture at f/11". What will your picture look like at f/11? Do you know why you would want to take a picture at f/11? And the correct answer is not because you were told it's a sharp aperture.


I would use that if i wanted a longer sharpness. So not only sharp in the front of the picture, but also more to the background . And to answer completely :
the shutterspeed is more slow if F/.. goes up (bigger n°) , if you lower it (F/..) shutterspeed goes up (faster)
And I do listen what you say , turned off auto ISO and so on.
But what I'll do :
I'll try to make some pictures , will take them on F/5 (so big open , lot of light coming in) and than i will write down what SS it gives me at f.e. Iso 200 , and if my meter is in the middle or not.
And what Iso I have to go to get a nice shutterspeed.

@anfibil , what other settings do you mean ? The camera does a good job selecting the correct setting.
You mean the other presets ? landscape , nightphoto , ........


----------



## EchoingWhisper

No, if you set the right shutter speed and aperture in manual mode, you'll never encounter ISO that are too high. It doesn't only consume less time, it also helps you choose the right exposure in a fast changing situation.


----------



## anfibil

marcdax said:


> MTVision said:
> 
> 
> 
> In an earlier post you said something like "what if I wanted my aperture at f/11". What will your picture look like at f/11? Do you know why you would want to take a picture at f/11? And the correct answer is not because you were told it's a sharp aperture.
> 
> 
> 
> I would use that if i wanted a longer sharpness. So not only sharp in the front of the picture, but also more to the background . And to answer completely :
> the shutterspeed is more slow if F/.. goes up (bigger n°) , if you lower it (F/..) shutterspeed goes up (faster)
> And I do listen what you say , turned off auto ISO and so on.
> But what I'll do :
> I'll try to make some pictures , will take them on F/5 (so big open , lot of light coming in) and than i will write down what SS it gives me at f.e. Iso 200 , and if my meter is in the middle or not.
> And what Iso I have to go to get a nice shutterspeed.
> 
> @anfibil , what other settings do you mean ? The camera does a good job selecting the correct setting.
> You mean the other presets ? landscape , nightphoto , ........
Click to expand...


I mean "shutter speed" if I'm on Aperture Priority or "aperture" if I''m on shutter speed priority. I wasn't talking about presets.


----------



## SCraig

> But what I'll do :
> I'll try to make some pictures , will take them on F/5 (so big open , lot of light coming in) and than i will write down what SS it gives me at f.e. Iso 200 , and *if my meter is in the middle or not*.
> And what Iso I have to go to get a nice shutterspeed.


Some of you guys with a 5100 correct me if I'm wrong, but if he's seeing the meter indicator isn't he shooting in manual mode?  In anything other than manual mode the  *-.......|......+*  meter is not displayed, correct?  At least that's he way my D90 and D60 behave.


----------



## anfibil

SCraig said:


> But what I'll do :
> I'll try to make some pictures , will take them on F/5 (so big open , lot of light coming in) and than i will write down what SS it gives me at f.e. Iso 200 , and *if my meter is in the middle or not*.
> And what Iso I have to go to get a nice shutterspeed.
> 
> 
> 
> Some of you guys with a 5100 correct me if I'm wrong, but if he's seeing the meter indicator isn't he shooting in manual mode?  In anything other than manual mode the  *-.......|......+*  meter is not displayed, correct?  At least that's he way my D90 and D60 behave.
Click to expand...


It's displayed on all modes actually. Though you have no control over it unless you are shooting in manual.


----------



## EchoingWhisper

anfibil said:


> SCraig said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But what I'll do :
> I'll try to make some pictures , will take them on F/5 (so big open , lot of light coming in) and than i will write down what SS it gives me at f.e. Iso 200 , and *if my meter is in the middle or not*.
> And what Iso I have to go to get a nice shutterspeed.
> 
> 
> 
> Some of you guys with a 5100 correct me if I'm wrong, but if he's seeing the meter indicator isn't he shooting in manual mode?  In anything other than manual mode the  *-.......|......+*  meter is not displayed, correct?  At least that's he way my D90 and D60 behave.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's displayed on all modes actually. Though you have no control over it unless you are shooting in manual.
Click to expand...


Yep, when the light level is too low or too high for your camera to handle compensate any further, then there will be changes in the meter.


----------



## o hey tyler

EchoingWhisper said:


> No, if you set the right shutter speed and aperture in manual mode, you'll never encounter ISO that are too high. It doesn't only consume less time, it also helps you choose the right exposure in a fast changing situation.



I'd rather have consistent quality rather than ease of use.


----------



## SCraig

EchoingWhisper said:


> anfibil said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SCraig said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some of you guys with a 5100 correct me if I'm wrong, but if he's seeing the meter indicator isn't he shooting in manual mode?  In anything other than manual mode the  *-.......|......+*  meter is not displayed, correct?  At least that's he way my D90 and D60 behave.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's displayed on all modes actually. Though you have no control over it unless you are shooting in manual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yep, when the light level is too low or too high for your camera to handle compensate any further, then there will be changes in the meter.
Click to expand...

Good enough.  I'm not that familiar with the 5100.  Thanks for the info.


----------



## fjrabon

o hey tyler said:


> EchoingWhisper said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, if you set the right shutter speed and aperture in manual mode, you'll never encounter ISO that are too high. It doesn't only consume less time, it also helps you choose the right exposure in a fast changing situation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd rather have consistent quality rather than ease of use.
Click to expand...


yeah, and all you have to do is set the fn button to control ISO, as opposed to timer, and it's about the easiest thing ever.  ISO is such a heavy handed adjustment, as compared to everything else, that you definitely want to be the one controlling it.


----------



## MTVision

EchoingWhisper said:
			
		

> No, if you set the right shutter speed and aperture in manual mode, you'll never encounter ISO that are too high. It doesn't only consume less time, it also helps you choose the right exposure in a fast changing situation.



Not really. It only takes a second to raise/lower your ISO so having it set to auto doesn't save anytime.


----------



## EchoingWhisper

o hey tyler said:


> EchoingWhisper said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, if you set the right shutter speed and aperture in manual mode, you'll never encounter ISO that are too high. It doesn't only consume less time, it also helps you choose the right exposure in a fast changing situation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd rather have consistent quality rather than ease of use.
Click to expand...


Consistent quality? If the light is changing quickly, you might not get the photo. Better something than nothing right?


----------



## EchoingWhisper

MTVision said:


> EchoingWhisper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, if you set the right shutter speed and aperture in manual mode, you'll never encounter ISO that are too high. It doesn't only consume less time, it also helps you choose the right exposure in a fast changing situation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not really. It only takes a second to raise/lower your ISO so having it set to auto doesn't save anytime.
Click to expand...


It does matter when you're in a fast changing situation. Even if you aren't in a fast changing situation, you'll set your aperture and your shutter speed to take care of motion blur and depth of field, and let noise take care of itself. Even if you weren't on auto ISO, you'll eventually need to increase the ISO right? If you worry about high ISOs, simply make the aperture larger or make the shutter speed slower. Simple? KenRockwell shoots with auto ISO too! Anyway, this was just a suggestion to help the OP. Setting Auto ISO on manual is actually like Aperture+ShutterSpeed Priority. Why do you shoot Aperture Priority? Why do you shoot Shutter Speed priority?

Also, one thing, when shooting auto ISO in manual mode, you don't have exposure compensation though, so your pictures might turn out not the way you want, but the metering technology is so good nowadays you need not worry.


----------



## MTVision

EchoingWhisper said:
			
		

> It does matter when you're in a fast changing situation. Even if you aren't in a fast changing situation, you'll set your aperture and your shutter speed to take care of motion blur and depth of field, and let noise take care of itself. Even if you weren't on auto ISO, you'll eventually need to increase the ISO right? If you worry about high ISOs, simply make the aperture larger or make the shutter speed slower. Simple? KenRockwell shoots with auto ISO too! Anyway, this was just a suggestion to help the OP. Setting Auto ISO on manual is actually like Aperture+ShutterSpeed Priority. Why do you shoot Aperture Priority? Why do you shoot Shutter Speed priority?
> 
> Also, one thing, when shooting auto ISO in manual mode, you don't have exposure compensation though, so your pictures might turn out not the way you want, but the metering technology is so good nowadays you need not worry.





How is shooting auto ISO going to help the OP? You said as long as you know what shutter speed and aperture your ISO won't be too high. Well, since the OP doesn't know what settings to use how will this help him? It won't. He was shooting on auto ISO and it wasn't working for him. 
 Ken Rockwell isn't the best person to take advice from. And exposure compensation does work on auto ISO. 

If you worry about high ISO then set the ISO yourself - how is changing the aperture or shutter speed any different or less time consuming then changing ISO? ISO isn't like aperture/shutter priority. ISO can have a negative effect on the image - more so for a newbie!


----------



## marcdax

@ anfibil :
So you do those photo's with your first DSLR ? A nikon D5100 with kitlens ? 18-55 ?.
and those pictures in less than 4 months by reading a manual ?
And what camera did you have before this ?

my 2 cents :
1. If I look at your Facebookpictures from a few months earlier.....
2. I showed them to a guy who's an photographystudent (and not in his first year) , he told me that either your a prodigy - natural born talent or ????
He also told me that the filters you use , it's almost impossible to learn/master that in 4 months.
3. If they should be lucky shots , you have way to many


----------



## MTVision

marcdax said:
			
		

> @ anfibil :
> So you do those photo's with your first DSLR ? A nikon D5100 with kitlens ? 18-55 ?.
> and those pictures in less than 4 months by reading a manual ?
> And what camera did you have before this ?
> 
> my 2 cents :
> 1. If I look at your Facebookpictures from a few months earlier.....
> 2. I showed them to a guy who's an photographystudent (and not in his first year) , he told me that either your a prodigy - natural born talent or ????
> He also told me that the filters you use , it's almost impossible to learn/master that in 4 months.
> 3. If they should be lucky shots , you have way to many



Have you let your friend play with your camera to see what they think??


----------



## marcdax

@ Megan , so was my answer on your F/11 correct ?

- What I also wanted to know , my former lenses didn't have VR.
If i focus on something (with VR on) and i move my camera up or down i hear like a click , is this normal ?

- could someone please tell me I'm right :
I'm on A mode (aperture)
I see something and i set my A on F/5 (on my lens this is one of the biggest , so whole lot of light coming in) , small DOF. The camera comes and give me this (let's say iso is on auto for this example)
F/5 - 1/30 - iso 800
ergo 
- to have a faster shutter I have to set my iso higher , cause my A cant go lower.(and i need 1/50 or double to be safe)
- If i set my Iso myself f.e. 400 , I presume i cant give me an shutter of 1/125 because i've set my iso myself ? (or am i wrong here ?)


----------



## marcdax

MTVision said:


> Have you let your friend play with your camera to see what they think??


No , if he had lived more closeby i could/would have done that , but he's not in the neighbourhood.


----------



## MTVision

marcdax said:
			
		

> @ Megan , so was my answer on your F/11 correct ?
> 
> - What I also wanted to know , my former lenses didn't have VR.
> If i focus on something (with VR on) and i move my camera up or down i hear like a click , is this normal ?
> 
> - could someone please tell me I'm right :
> I'm on A mode (aperture)
> I see something and i set my A on F/5 (on my lens this is one of the biggest , so whole lot of light coming in) , small DOF. The camera comes and give me this (let's say iso is on auto for this example)
> F/5 - 1/30 - iso 800
> ergo
> - to have a faster shutter I have to set my iso higher , cause my A cant go lower.(and i need 1/50 or double to be safe)
> - If i set my Iso myself f.e. 400 , I presume i cant give me an shutter of 1/125 because i've set my iso myself ? (or am i wrong here ?)



Yes. More will be in focus. I'm not sure if you should hear a click. I'd have to check and I'm not near my camera. One thing about VR - if using a tripod you need to turn it off. 

Raising your ISO will give you a faster shutter speed. You can also use exposure compensation. If you set your shutter speed faster and the meter says its underexposed by a couple stops you can use exposure compensation +2 instead of raising your ISO. Aperture/shutter priority probably tries to 0 out the meter which doesn't always work for every scene. That's what is great about manual mode. You can set it so your meter isn't right on 0. Some scenes will need a stop or 2 above/below the meter. 

You should set your ISO last though. Keep it at a base number like 400. Try to get a correct exposure with a fast enough shutter speed. Then raise ISO or exposure compensation.


----------



## fjrabon

this is the thread that never ends, it goes on and on my friends, somebody started it, not knowing what it was, and it'll keep on going forever just because...


----------



## Rephargotohp

It's like listening to a Physics argument on a little yellow bus


----------



## anfibil

marcdax said:


> @ anfibil :
> So you do those photo's with your first DSLR ? A nikon D5100 with kitlens ? 18-55 ?.
> and those pictures in less than 4 months by reading a manual ?
> And what camera did you have before this ?
> 
> my 2 cents :
> 1. If I look at your Facebookpictures from a few months earlier.....
> 2. I showed them to a guy who's an photographystudent (and not in his first year) , he told me that either your a prodigy - natural born talent or ????
> He also told me that the filters you use , it's almost impossible to learn/master that in 4 months.
> 3. If they should be lucky shots , you have way to many



Yes... correct. Actually some of the later images were taken with a new lens I just bought (Tokina 12-24) but most were taken with the kit lens indeed.
Before this camera I had nothing 

I'm not sure what you mean by "facebook pictures" and "filters that are hard to master". And there were many pictures that I took and that didn't look nice at all. I'm no prodigy haha.


----------



## EchoingWhisper

MTVision said:


> EchoingWhisper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It does matter when you're in a fast changing situation. Even if you aren't in a fast changing situation, you'll set your aperture and your shutter speed to take care of motion blur and depth of field, and let noise take care of itself. Even if you weren't on auto ISO, you'll eventually need to increase the ISO right? If you worry about high ISOs, simply make the aperture larger or make the shutter speed slower. Simple? KenRockwell shoots with auto ISO too! Anyway, this was just a suggestion to help the OP. Setting Auto ISO on manual is actually like Aperture+ShutterSpeed Priority. Why do you shoot Aperture Priority? Why do you shoot Shutter Speed priority?
> 
> Also, one thing, when shooting auto ISO in manual mode, you don't have exposure compensation though, so your pictures might turn out not the way you want, but the metering technology is so good nowadays you need not worry.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How is shooting auto ISO going to help the OP? You said as long as you know what shutter speed and aperture your ISO won't be too high. Well, since the OP doesn't know what settings to use how will this help him? It won't. He was shooting on auto ISO and it wasn't working for him.
> Ken Rockwell isn't the best person to take advice from. And exposure compensation does work on auto ISO.
> 
> If you worry about high ISO then set the ISO yourself - how is changing the aperture or shutter speed any different or less time consuming then changing ISO? ISO isn't like aperture/shutter priority. ISO can have a negative effect on the image - more so for a newbie!
Click to expand...


Oops, exposure compensation works, but you must go through the menu. Yea, but if you read before, I taught the OP to set aperture on maximum and shutter speed at 1/focal length then ISO on auto, in this case, it works.


----------



## MTVision

EchoingWhisper said:
			
		

> Oops, exposure compensation works, but you must go through the menu. Yea, but if you read before, I taught the OP to set aperture on maximum and shutter speed at 1/focal length then ISO on auto, in this case, it works.



You don't have to go through the menu for exposure compensation on aperture/shutter priority - only manual. I still think auto ISO is a poor idea - its not any quicker then setting it yourself so IMO there is no reason to let the camera choose it.


----------



## anfibil

MTVision said:


> EchoingWhisper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oops, exposure compensation works, but you must go through the menu. Yea, but if you read before, I taught the OP to set aperture on maximum and shutter speed at 1/focal length then ISO on auto, in this case, it works.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't have to go through the menu for exposure compensation on aperture/shutter priority - only manual. I still think auto ISO is a poor idea - its not any quicker then setting it yourself so IMO there is no reason to let the camera choose it.
Click to expand...


I second that. As I mentioned before, from my own experience, I have noticed that the D5100 tends to choose very high ISOs if you let it do it automatically, which is never a good idea.


----------



## marcdax

Okay , as we weren't going anywhere anymore with the topic (and that's nobody's fault !) , i went to the shop , thought it was the best thing I could do.
So in the store :
The first guy I asked said it was normal and that he didn't think it was strange. But you could tell it wasn't his cup of tea , photocameras.
So he called out the other guy.
Explained what the problem was , or what I or the camera did wrong.
And the result is : The camera
Test in the shop resulted in a high(er) Iso than he thought.
Lens from the testD5100 didnt gave a difference.
So what to find out ?
TestD5100 focus on something , iso 100 gave at F/5 an ss of 1/25 or 1/30 , mine gave 1/13 of 1/10
Greycard test : TestD5100 gave F5 , iso 100 an 1/13 and it was overexposure , mine gave with the same settings an underexposure.
So he said to bring it back so it can go to Nikon to have it looked at.
What the guy also noticed is that is focused slower than the other ones , the testD5100 was faster

Sometimes it's harder to explain through a site / internet than in real life. 
But everybody thanks for the help and tips !


----------



## IndyBanipal

Also, make sure you turn off VR on your lens while shooting with a tripod!


----------



## MTVision

marcdax said:
			
		

> Okay , as we weren't going anywhere anymore with the topic (and that's nobody's fault !) , i went to the shop , thought it was the best thing I could do.
> So in the store :
> The first guy I asked said it was normal and that he didn't think it was strange. But you could tell it wasn't his cup of tea , photocameras.
> So he called out the other guy.
> Explained what the problem was , or what I or the camera did wrong.
> And the result is : The camera
> Test in the shop resulted in a high(er) Iso than he thought.
> Lens from the testD5100 didnt gave a difference.
> So what to find out ?
> TestD5100 focus on something , iso 100 gave at F/5 an ss of 1/25 or 1/30 , mine gave 1/13 of 1/10
> Greycard test : TestD5100 gave F5 , iso 100 an 1/13 and it was overexposure , mine gave with the same settings an underexposure.
> So he said to bring it back so it can go to Nikon to have it looked at.
> What the guy also noticed is that is focused slower than the other ones , the testD5100 was faster
> 
> Sometimes it's harder to explain through a site / internet than in real life.
> But everybody thanks for the help and tips !



Was the same lens used on both cameras? The slow focus could be due to the lens.


----------



## marcdax

Now you ask me something .
I know he said it , but i really wouldn't know what lens was on it , I think mine.
But the lens and camera are going back as a unit , so they both can/will get checked out. But thanks for mentioning
Going to bring it back tomorrow and hopefully it comes back quickly and that they found/fixed/replaced the problem.


----------



## MTVision

EchoingWhisper said:
			
		

> It does matter when you're in a fast changing situation. Even if you aren't in a fast changing situation, you'll set your aperture and your shutter speed to take care of motion blur and depth of field, and let noise take care of itself. Even if you weren't on auto ISO, you'll eventually need to increase the ISO right? If you worry about high ISOs, simply make the aperture larger or make the shutter speed slower. Simple? KenRockwell shoots with auto ISO too! Anyway, this was just a suggestion to help the OP. Setting Auto ISO on manual is actually like Aperture+ShutterSpeed Priority. Why do you shoot Aperture Priority? Why do you shoot Shutter Speed priority?
> 
> Also, one thing, when shooting auto ISO in manual mode, you don't have exposure compensation though, so your pictures might turn out not the way you want, but the metering technology is so good nowadays you need not worry.



I was looking up something and came across ken rockwells website. 

"ISO Auto Increases sensitivity (ISO) in dim light automatically to prevent blur from slow shutter speeds.

I use this all of the time, unless I'm using manual exposure mode. Auto ISO is a crucial component of Modern Exposure Technique."

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d80/users-guide/menus-custom.htm


----------



## jake337

Set your camera to M, take ISO off auto, set your metering to spot and read up on "zone metering".


----------



## EchoingWhisper

Auto shutter speed (aperture priority) controls noise & depth of field, auto aperture (shutter speed) controls noise & motion blur, auto ISO controls motion blur & depth of field. I don't mind having a little noise in my photographs, people from the film or people using old digital cameras have pretty bad noise/grain - did that prevent them from taking good photographs? To me, motion blur & depth of field is a more important, and I don't have more than a second to change my settings before the shot is gone, that's why I always put my ISO on auto. I've lost a few nice photographs when I didn't set anything on auto. 

My advice - set Shutter speed priority at a bright place, set auto ISO+manual at a dark place and fast changing situations, and full manual on everything else.


----------



## MTVision

I tried what you said. I figured out the optimal settings for my situation then I turned on auto ISO - my ISO jumped up to 800 when it could've been shot on ISO 100 with the same exact settings. So it doesn't really matter if you pick the correct settings for that scene - auto ISO has a mind of its own.


----------



## EchoingWhisper

MTVision said:


> I tried what you said. I figured out the optimal settings for my situation then I turned on auto ISO - my ISO jumped up to 800 when it could've been shot on ISO 100 with the same exact settings. So it doesn't really matter if you pick the correct settings for that scene - auto ISO has a mind of its own.



Weirdly, mine works. Does that mean auto ISO over-exposes the picture by 3 stops?


----------



## EchoingWhisper

Have you heard of the the TAv setting in K-5? It's exactly like manual+auto ISO


----------



## MTVision

EchoingWhisper said:
			
		

> Weirdly, mine works. Does that mean auto ISO over-exposes the picture by 3 stops?



Auto ISO didn't necessarily overexpose the picture but I use spot metering so it didn't work - I don't focus on what I meter off of it. It would probably work with matrix/evaluative metering mode. Or I could lock my exposure but then why would I need auto ISO?? And if the shot could be taken with ISO 100 then why would I want to use ISO 800? My point is - it takes literally 2 seconds to change all 3 settings in a fast changing scene. If you don't want to bother with changing 1 setting why not just use aperture priority or shutter priority?   

If auto ISO works for you then that's all that matters.


----------



## EchoingWhisper

MTVision said:


> EchoingWhisper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weirdly, mine works. Does that mean auto ISO over-exposes the picture by 3 stops?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Auto ISO didn't necessarily overexpose the picture but I use spot metering so it didn't work - I don't focus on what I meter off of it. It would probably work with matrix/evaluative metering mode. Or I could lock my exposure but then why would I need auto ISO?? And if the shot could be taken with ISO 100 then why would I want to use ISO 800? My point is - it takes literally 2 seconds to change all 3 settings in a fast changing scene. If you don't want to bother with changing 1 setting why not just use aperture priority or shutter priority?
> 
> If auto ISO works for you then that's all that matters.
Click to expand...


I don't use spot metering in dark conditions/fast changing situations so I never have your problem, if I were to use spot metering then I would use shutter priority.


----------



## MTVision

EchoingWhisper said:
			
		

> I don't use spot metering in dark conditions/fast changing situations so I never have your problem, if I were to use spot metering then I would use shutter priority.



How would you use spot metering in shutter priority and why? You would have to use the ae-l button to lock exposure in shutter priority (which takes just as long as adjusting your ISO) but in manual all you have to do is adjust the settings. The settings will never change in manual unless you change them.  I don't really understand your reasonings but like I said - if they work for you then that's all that matters


----------



## EchoingWhisper

MTVision said:


> EchoingWhisper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't use spot metering in dark conditions/fast changing situations so I never have your problem, if I were to use spot metering then I would use shutter priority.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How would you use spot metering in shutter priority and why? You would have to use the ae-l button to lock exposure in shutter priority (which takes just as long as adjusting your ISO) but in manual all you have to do is adjust the settings. The settings will never change in manual unless you change them.  I don't really understand your reasonings but like I said - if they work for you then that's all that matters
Click to expand...


Because I can use exposure compensation without accessing the menu, anyway, if I am in a fast changing situation I wouldn't use spot metering.


----------



## marcdax

So i got a call the camera was back.
Picked it up and tried it.
Was a note : they cleaned the CCD , changed a few parameters

Before we disagree  , i first wanted to try (as the guy in the shop said) taking a picture on Auto (without flash).
He told it has to take a great picture.
This is what i ended up with :








Focuspoints are circled (sorry its a bit quickly done)
Is this the best the thing can do ???
And than the exif data :
s/30 , f 4.5 and iso 3200 (on middle of the noon , with a window on the right side of approx. 2x1metre.)
=> before we discuss the iso on auto or not , it's about the picturequality that I'm wondering
S/30 is a little slow for handheld , but it cant be that you have to use a tripod in house to take a picture ?

This one is ????






exif : s1/30 , f/5.6 iso 900

So from the picture above , my question is :
i set it on F5.6 (it wouldn't go lower) , with my iso on a lower number i would have needed a tripod for sure.
How would you gotten a faster shuttertime ?


----------



## marcdax

And for something else :
why , if i change my lightning (to make it more dark or bright) , it doesnt change at all ?
If i put it to +5 it stays the same as i would do nothing
(and i mean changing the settings on the camera before taking the picture)

If this is a stupid question , please say so and tell me how I should do it (right) 
Thank you


----------



## MTVision

marcdax said:
			
		

> So i got a call the camera was back.
> Picked it up and tried it.
> Was a note : they cleaned the CCD , changed a few parameters
> 
> Before we disagree  , i first wanted to try (as the guy in the shop said) taking a picture on Auto (without flash).
> He told it has to take a great picture.
> This is what i ended up with :
> 
> Focuspoints are circled (sorry its a bit quickly done)
> Is this the best the thing can do ???
> And than the exif data :
> s/30 , f 4.5 and iso 3200 (on middle of the noon , with a window on the right side of approx. 2x1metre.)
> => before we discuss the iso on auto or not , it's about the picturequality that I'm wondering
> S/30 is a little slow for handheld , but it cant be that you have to use a tripod in house to take a picture ?
> 
> This one is ????
> 
> exif : s1/30 , f/5.6 iso 900
> 
> So from the picture above , my question is :
> i set it on F5.6 (it wouldn't go lower) , with my iso on a lower number i would have needed a tripod for sure.
> How would you gotten a faster shuttertime ?



Houses have poor lighting so that's why you have a slow shutter speed. The first picture - hardly any lighting thats why the ISO is high an shutter speed is low. ISO will raise shutter speed but it's not always going to make it fast enough to handhold. I still think you need a better understanding of exposure and lighting because you still don't get it. There obviously wasn't really anything wrong with the camera it's user error. Your popup flash will make the shutter speed faster. You need light to create good pictures even on auto - lighting inside houses is poor at best.


----------



## marcdax

And the one at the window , there was a light on the ceiling also.

Megan , I'm just talking about the sharpness
And I wasn't the only one who noticed something wrong with it , otherwise the guy at the shop wouldn't told me to send it back
So I could totally understand that i dont understand anything about it , but on auto it isn't better.
You say it never will take a good picture on auto, in the shop they tell me it produces great images even if you dont know a thing.

And what about this one ?





exif : 1/5 shutter , iso 1200 , f 5.6


----------



## marcdax

And doens't the D5100 has an cmos sensor istead of an ccd ?
Or would this be a general name they used ?


----------



## MTVision

marcdax said:
			
		

> And the one at the window , there was a light on the ceiling also.
> 
> Megan , I'm just talking about the sharpness
> And I wasn't the only one who noticed something wrong with it , otherwise the guy at the shop wouldn't told me to send it back
> So I could totally understand that i dont understand anything about it , but on auto it isn't better.
> You say it never will take a good picture on auto, in the shop they tell me it produces great images even if you dont know a thing.
> 
> And what about this one ?
> 
> exif : 1/5 shutter , iso 1200 , f 5.6



Focus and exposure play a role in ISO. High iso does t usually equal a sharp image. Handholding at 1/30 will not make a sharp photo.  Using af-a in auto doesn't let you choose your focal points so the camera chooses what to focus on. You also need good light to get good focus. 

Just because you have a ceiling light and are near a window doesn't mean it's good light. To the average person auto can take excellent pictures but they also aren't pixel peeping like you. You are examining every little aspect of the picture which most people won't do. And you aren't going to get great pictures in tricky lighting situations on auto. 

Any camera can take decent pictures on auto - in the right situation. It's not really any different then a point and shoot in auto - you might get some great photos and you might not. It's all about the light. Cameras aren't great in low light (inside your house). 

And they didn't really do anything to your camera. They sent it out to get it looked at. They cleaned the sensor - it probably wasn't the issue. They adjusted some parameters - it didn't fix anything since your back asking the same questions. 

Not try to be a ***** but your asking the same questions that were answered by a bunch of people already.


----------



## MTVision

marcdax said:
			
		

> And for something else :
> why , if i change my lightning (to make it more dark or bright) , it doesnt change at all ?
> If i put it to +5 it stays the same as i would do nothing
> (and i mean changing the settings on the camera before taking the picture)
> 
> If this is a stupid question , please say so and tell me how I should do it (right)
> Thank you



The person at the store, from what you wrote, said your camera focused slower and metered differently. Maybe the cameras meter was off a little bit - I'm sure its not a unique issue. You can't really determine sharpness until its on the computer. If the camera got sent out and was fixed, yet your having the same issue doesn't it make sense that is either user error or that your trying to get great quality photos in poor lighting. 

The +5 thing - are you talking about exposure compensation? If so, it's not changing your lighting at all - its just going to make the picture brighter or darker.


----------



## marcdax

MTVision said:


> The +5 thing - are you talking about exposure compensation? If so, it's not changing your lighting at all - its just going to make the picture brighter or darker.


Yes , you would see that on the screen of the camera wouldn't you ?
My question is :
I take a picture with brightness at 0 , I take a picture with brightness + 5.
Normally the last one should look (very) bright , no ?
So why is it , if I look at my screen (of the camera) they both look the same ?

And no , i can understand , you're not being a b$tch


----------



## marcdax

MTVision said:


> If the camera got sent out and was fixed, yet your having the same issue doesn't it make sense that is either user error or that your trying to get great quality photos in poor lighting.


It's not just inside
error do I make ? Just tell me this .... !
If I put my f on F/5.6 , set my ISO to 800 and get a 1/50 shutter , members say I'm crazy to put my Iso so high. And that is when my meter is on 0.
If i put my Shutter on F1/125 to get F/5 and iso 1000 the same again. 

don't 't mean to be a pain in the b*** , but honestly , I tried everything people said and nothing works and still I get "it's my fault".
If i set Iso myself , I'm to high. If I follow the advice to put it on auto , I'm to high. 

Give me a break for not knowing what to do anymore.


----------



## marcdax

So , I know that you can't compare it for 100% , but lets say clouded is clouded .
On this picture you can see it's very clouded , would you agree ?
http://500px.com/photo/2913221
exif : F8 , iso 100 , s1/250






Could you say this is equally comparable ?
exif : 1/80 s , f 3.6 iso 400
Took the same one on Iso 200 and my shutter was 1/30 on F/4

if I understand correctly , to get my shutter higher , I have to lower my F/... number (which couldn't) go lower or set my Iso higher.
So my only question is :
If someone else his Iso can be low and still take the picture with a good shutterspeed , why doesn't mine ? Even if I set my F wide open (as can be at that moment)


----------



## marcdax

And please give me the difference here :
Maybe with resizing you don't see the difference in sharpness that good, but just the exif data.
Tell me what you think





exif : 1/80 shutter , 400 iso , f3.6





exif : s1/125 , iso 100 , F/5

So , simular day(s) , same place.
Why is the second one sharp ? has a lower iso ? Less F (so less light comes in) ?


----------



## MTVision

marcdax said:
			
		

> And please give me the difference here :
> Maybe with resizing you don't see the difference in sharpness that good, but just the exif data.
> Tell me what you think
> 
> exif : 1/80 shutter , 400 iso , f3.6
> 
> exif : s1/125 , iso 100 , F/5
> 
> So , simular day(s) , same place.
> Why is the second one sharp ? has a lower iso ? Less F (so less light comes in) ?



They aren't comparable. 

Similar days - not the same day. Lighting varies from day to day, hour to hour.  Your aren't standing it the same place. Your shutter speed is faster so your picture is probably sharper due to that. It also depends where you/your camera chose to focus. I'm not sure what to tell you that hasn't already been said. If you are convinced your camera/lens is faulty then call Nikon - you have a warranty (or should).


----------



## EchoingWhisper

Okay dude, before you talk about sharp or not sharp - read about Exposure, then read about Focus (focusing for macro/hyperfocal distance), then read about Composition. They will help you learn photography yourself.


----------



## marcdax

marcdax said:


> Yes , you would see that on the screen of the camera wouldn't you ?
> My question is :
> I take a picture with brightness at 0 , I take a picture with brightness + 5.
> Normally the last one should look (very) bright , no ?
> So why is it , if I look at my screen (of the camera) they both look the same ?
> 
> And no , i can understand , you're not being a b$tch


Can anyone give me an answer on this ?



marcdax said:


> If I put my f on F/5.6 , set my ISO to 800 and get a 1/50 shutter , members say I'm crazy to put my Iso so high. And that is when my meter is on 0.
> If i put my Shutter on F1/125 to get F/5 and iso 1000 the same again.
> If i set Iso myself , I'm to high. If I follow the advice to put it on auto , I'm to high.


And what about this one ?
If you all told me and i understand :
to get my shutter up , i have to open my aparture (so lower n°) or put my ISo a step higher.
So if F/5 is my highest number , normally I should put it at F5.6 to be sure , so if I get :
F/5.6 , s 1/50 and Iso 400 
I have to raise my Iso to get a faster shutter or to get my lightmeter in the middle.
So if i set it to F5.6 / 1/100 and Iso 800
you all say I'm crazy and that it probably should be at 400 max

So just forget the rest , give me te faults I make in this example........


----------



## EchoingWhisper

No. Put up any ISO you want, as long as you understand exposure.


----------



## o hey tyler

This has turned into 5 pages of repeated failures. Have you read the entire manual twice? 

Do you understand that your shutter speed needs to be 1/focal length? 

Sometimes you NEED to turn your ISO up to get an acceptable shutter speed. It happens. Everyone does it. 

The settings you used in this post: http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/nikon/264004-nikon-d5100-problems-5.html#post2423428 were absolutely fine. Your shutter speed was high enough. You just need to go out and experiment with your camera and learn why it does certain things, rather than over analyze every shutter actuation you make. MTVision has been very patient with you, but she's basically been going around in circles trying to get you to understand the same fundamental concepts. 

I really strongly suggest you go out, take photos and focus on composition. If the photos become soft, perhaps your shutter speed is too slow? If they become dark, perhaps you need to turn up your ISO? Bring the manual, as it's a good reference. I would not suggest going out very late in the day when the sun might be setting because then your lighting will change much more rapidly, and I don't think you can compensate at this point. 

When you go out to shoot though, in the daylight. MOST TIMES you can go out, set your camera up in manual on the LOWEST ISO while still maintaining at least a 1/focal length shutter speed. You shouldn't have to change your settings on every shot. But you can always MICRO adjust if you see the meter start to fluctuate too far from 0.


----------



## JohnYoga

Hello Folks,

This has been a very informative thread for me, a newbie.

I just bought the D5100 with the "stock" lens. I usually keep everything on auto, and the pictures look beautiful (indoors and outdoors). I bought the SB400 speed light and either diffuse it with a cap, or point the light to the ceiling to spray additional light, when needed. I also am prone to use Single-Point AF, and, at times, go to "P" and change the white balance to suit the lighting. I have also found the SCENE position and the knob scene positions to be great.

In some of your pictures shown, Marc, perhaps the "issues" would have been solved by leaving the camera on auto, or flipping through some of the scene presets + spray additional light on the subject (those close-up shots)?

Marc, these folks on this thread have been awesome. Sit back and appreciate the time they have put into your questions. I know where to go when I have questions! Thanks folks!

Regards,

John


----------



## EchoingWhisper

JohnYoga said:


> Hello Folks,
> 
> This has been a very informative thread for me, a newbie.
> 
> I just bought the D5100 with the "stock" lens. I usually keep everything on auto, and the pictures look beautiful (indoors and outdoors). I bought the SB400 speed light and either diffuse it with a cap, or point the light to the ceiling to spray additional light, when needed. I also am prone to use Single-Point AF, and, at times, go to "P" and change the white balance to suit the lighting. I have also found the SCENE position and the knob scene positions to be great.
> 
> In some of your pictures shown, Marc, perhaps the "issues" would have been solved by leaving the camera on auto, or flipping through some of the scene presets + spray additional light on the subject (those close-up shots)?
> 
> Marc, these folks on this thread have been awesome. Sit back and appreciate the time they have put into your questions. I know where to go when I have questions! Thanks folks!
> 
> Regards,
> 
> John



Yes, everything will be great in auto, but you'll never learn a thing. I have never seen a professional go on full auto.


----------



## JohnYoga

EchoingWhisper said:


> JohnYoga said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hello Folks,
> 
> This has been a very informative thread for me, a newbie.
> 
> I just bought the D5100 with the "stock" lens. I usually keep everything on auto, and the pictures look beautiful (indoors and outdoors). I bought the SB400 speed light and either diffuse it with a cap, or point the light to the ceiling to spray additional light, when needed. I also am prone to use Single-Point AF, and, at times, go to "P" and change the white balance to suit the lighting. I have also found the SCENE position and the knob scene positions to be great.
> 
> In some of your pictures shown, Marc, perhaps the "issues" would have been solved by leaving the camera on auto, or flipping through some of the scene presets + spray additional light on the subject (those close-up shots)?
> 
> Marc, these folks on this thread have been awesome. Sit back and appreciate the time they have put into your questions. I know where to go when I have questions! Thanks folks!
> 
> Regards,
> 
> John
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, everything will be great in auto, but you'll never learn a thing. I have never seen a professional go on full auto.
Click to expand...


True, that!

Down the road, all the technicals will come. I drive my car, use my refrigerator, watch TV, listen to the radio, and do not know how they work...I do fully enjoy using/experiencing these pieces of technology, too...One does not need to know why things work, in order to enjoy them...

John


----------



## EchoingWhisper

JohnYoga said:


> EchoingWhisper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JohnYoga said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hello Folks,
> 
> This has been a very informative thread for me, a newbie.
> 
> I just bought the D5100 with the "stock" lens. I usually keep everything on auto, and the pictures look beautiful (indoors and outdoors). I bought the SB400 speed light and either diffuse it with a cap, or point the light to the ceiling to spray additional light, when needed. I also am prone to use Single-Point AF, and, at times, go to "P" and change the white balance to suit the lighting. I have also found the SCENE position and the knob scene positions to be great.
> 
> In some of your pictures shown, Marc, perhaps the "issues" would have been solved by leaving the camera on auto, or flipping through some of the scene presets + spray additional light on the subject (those close-up shots)?
> 
> Marc, these folks on this thread have been awesome. Sit back and appreciate the time they have put into your questions. I know where to go when I have questions! Thanks folks!
> 
> Regards,
> 
> John
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, everything will be great in auto, but you'll never learn a thing. I have never seen a professional go on full auto.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> True, that!
> 
> Down the road, all the technicals will come. I drive my car, use my refrigerator, watch TV, listen to the radio, and do not know how they work...I do fully enjoy using/experiencing these pieces of technology, too...One does not need to know why things work, in order to enjoy them...
> 
> John
Click to expand...


You don't need to know how they work, but you need to know how to use them and get the best out of them.


----------



## JohnYoga

Very true, EW!

That is why I spent three hours yesterday reading this entire thread, understanding the "Exposure Triangle", reading the manual which came on the D5100 CD, reading several in-depth performance reviews of the D5100 body and 18-55mm "stock" lens, and understanding how to use all of the camera settings, including doing a blur shot. I've learned things like how incredibly effective the VR (the lens/body can handle shutter speeds down to at least 1/13 with no problem with hand-held blur) is, F-stop "sweet spot" range (F/5.6-F/11), A & S Priority, HDR, bracketing, etc. 

Today I'lll do a waterfall blur, play more with light dynamic range, time-lapse sequence of a sunset, and a try at post-processing it!

Thanks again, to those who labored through this thread; it is extremely informative.

Regards, John


----------



## EchoingWhisper

JohnYoga said:


> Very true, EW!
> 
> That is why I spent three hours yesterday reading this entire thread, understanding the "Exposure Triangle", reading the manual which came on the D5100 CD, reading several in-depth performance reviews of the D5100 body and 18-55mm "stock" lens, and understanding how to use all of the camera settings, including doing a blur shot. I've learned things like how incredibly effective the VR (the lens/body can handle shutter speeds down to at least 1/13 with no problem with hand-held blur) is, F-stop "sweet spot" range (F/5.6-F/11), A & S Priority, HDR, bracketing, etc.
> 
> Today I'lll do a waterfall blur, play more with light dynamic range, time-lapse sequence of a sunset, and a try at post-processing it!
> 
> Thanks again, to those who labored through this thread; it is extremely informative.
> 
> Regards, John



Good to know.  The sweet spot of your lens is f/5.6 for 18mm and f/8 for 55mm, for high depth of field without strong diffraction use f/11 at all focal length.


----------



## JohnYoga

Thank you, EW for that precise information.

I wrote that information down... I will wonder about the same information when I get the Nikon 55-300mm lens later next year. 

John


----------



## EchoingWhisper

JohnYoga said:


> Thank you, EW for that precise information.
> 
> I wrote that information down... I will wonder about the same information when I get the Nikon 55-300mm lens later next year.
> 
> John



Yes, buy the 55-300mm or 70-300mm, don't buy the 55-200mm, it is a waste of money - it lacks VR II and the further zoom range, but both lenses' sharpness is similar.


----------



## EchoingWhisper

Sweet spot of that lens is f/5.6 from 55-105, f/8 from 105-200, f/11 from 200-300, sharpness sharpness deteriorate after 200mm (200mm-300mm), high depth of field without strong diffraction is f/11 at all focal lengths, f/16 is still acceptable from 55-200.


----------



## JohnYoga

Hello Michael,

Perfect! Thank you so much! I wrote down those numbers, too. I have 3"x5" cards on a ring that constitute my portable photo notes.

Regards,

John


----------



## EchoingWhisper

JohnYoga said:


> Hello Michael,
> 
> Perfect! Thank you so much! I wrote down those numbers, too. I have 3"x5" cards on a ring that constitute my portable photo notes.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> John



You should get a hyperfocal distance chart, the circle of confusion of both lens is 25. Your D5100 has very high resolution, so the lens will set the circle of confusion. But I prefer a hyperfocal distance table, they're easier to read in the field.


----------



## JohnYoga

Hello Michael,

I printed out a chart, but then wonder, how can I figure out the hyperfocal distance? In other words, when the chart says 40', how would I know, practically, where to focus, unless I got a yardstick out (  )?

Regards,

Marc


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## EchoingWhisper

JohnYoga said:


> Hello Michael,
> 
> I printed out a chart, but then wonder, how can I figure out the hyperfocal distance? In other words, when the chart says 40', how would I know, practically, where to focus, unless I got a yardstick out (  )?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Marc



Yes, I have that problem too. Most semi-pro lens have a distance scale or similar, so you can know where you are focusing at (like the 50mm 1.8G). For entry level lens, you have no choice but to guess, it's best to focus nearer than you predict, cause' a blurry foreground is more distracting than a blurry background. 

This is my sharpness and hyperfocal distance table.
*
Sharpness*
*
Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G VR*
18-35mm &#8211; _WO to 11.0_
 55mm &#8211; _6.3 to 11.0_

*Nikon AF-S Nikkor 50 f/1.8G*
50mm &#8211; _2.5 to 10.0_

*Nikon AF-S DX VR Zoom-Nikkor 55-200mm f/4-5.6G IF-ED*
55mm &#8211; _WO to 11.0_
 70mm &#8211; _WO to 13.0_
 105mm &#8211; _WO to 16.0_
 135mm &#8211; _6.3 to 13.0_
 200mm &#8211; _10.0 to 11.0
_
Bonus*
*Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 55-300mm f/4.5-5.6G ED VR*
55-105mm &#8211; _WO to 13.0
_200mm &#8211; _7.1 to 11.0
_300mm &#8211; 11.0

*Hyperfocal Distance*

Focal
 Length
              f number
f/4.0
f/5.6
f/8.0
f/11.0
f/16.0
18mm
3.00m
2.00m
1.50m
1.00m
0.75m
24mm
6.00m
4.00m
3.00m
2.00m
1.50m
35mm
12.00m
8.50m
6.00m
4.25m
3.00m
45mm
20.00m
14.00m
10.00m
7.00m
5.00m
55mm
30.00m
20.00m
15.00m
10.00m
7.50m
70mm
50.00m
35.00m
25.00m
17.50m
12.25m
85mm
70.00m
50.00m
35.00m
25.00m
17.50m
105mm
110.00m
80.00m
55.00m
40.00m
27.75m
135mm
185.00m
130.00m
92.50m
65.00m
46.25m
200mm
400.00m
280.00m
200.00m
140.00m
100.00m


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## EchoingWhisper

The 55-300mm is actually a bit sharper than the old 55-200mm.


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## JohnYoga

This is great! Thanks Michael!

When you say "WO to 11", you are saying that the image is sharpest in the range from "wide open" to F11?

Regards,  John


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## JohnYoga

I also made a note, as I had seen it written in a D5100 review, that you can hand-hold down to 1/13 sec...


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## EchoingWhisper

JohnYoga said:


> I also made a note, as I had seen it written in a D5100 review, that you can hand-hold down to 1/13 sec...



For your 18-55mm, at 55mm, you could hand-hold at 1/20 seconds. At 18mm, you could hand-hold at 1/8 seconds.
For your 55-300mm, at 55mm, you could hand-hold at 1/10 seconds. At 300mm you could hand-hold at 1/60 seconds.


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## EchoingWhisper

JohnYoga said:


> This is great! Thanks Michael!
> 
> When you say "WO to 11", you are saying that the image is sharpest in the range from "wide open" to F11?
> 
> Regards,  John



Yes. But at 300mm of 55-300mm, even the sharpest aperture isn't sharp at all.


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## JohnYoga

You are the best!


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## EchoingWhisper

JohnYoga said:


> You are the best!



Sorry, I made a mistake on the shutter speed, please check again.


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## JohnYoga

EchoingWhisper said:


> JohnYoga said:
> 
> 
> 
> I also made a note, as I had seen it written in a D5100 review, that you can hand-hold down to 1/13 sec...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For your 18-55mm, at 55mm, you could hand-hold at 1/20 seconds. At 18mm, you could hand-hold at 1/8 seconds.
> For your 55-300mm, at 55mm, you could hand-hold at 1/10 seconds. At 300mm you could hand-hold at 1/60 seconds.
Click to expand...


Thank you very much Michael. I am also going to get the 35mm 1.8G AFS DX "soon"; do you know what the minimum hand-hold shutter speed and aperture "sweet spot range" is for that lens?

Regards, John


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## JohnYoga

EchoingWhisper said:


> JohnYoga said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are the best!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, I made a mistake on the shutter speed, please check again.
Click to expand...


I am sorry, Michael; what do you mean? 

Regards,

John


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## EchoingWhisper

JohnYoga said:


> EchoingWhisper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JohnYoga said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are the best!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, I made a mistake on the shutter speed, please check again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am sorry, Michael; what do you mean?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> John
Click to expand...


At 300mm, the minimum hand-hold speed is 1/60 second, not 1/125second.


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## EchoingWhisper

JohnYoga said:


> EchoingWhisper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JohnYoga said:
> 
> 
> 
> I also made a note, as I had seen it written in a D5100 review, that you can hand-hold down to 1/13 sec...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For your 18-55mm, at 55mm, you could hand-hold at 1/20 seconds. At 18mm, you could hand-hold at 1/8 seconds.
> For your 55-300mm, at 55mm, you could hand-hold at 1/10 seconds. At 300mm you could hand-hold at 1/60 seconds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you very much Michael. I am also going to get the 35mm 1.8G AFS DX "soon"; do you know what the minimum hand-hold shutter speed and aperture "sweet spot range" is for that lens?
> 
> Regards, John
Click to expand...


Minimum hand hold speed is 1/50. Sweet spot range... I don't know, like normal, don't use any aperture beyond f/11.0.


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## EchoingWhisper

The 35mm 1.8G seems very sharp, even sharper than the 50mm 1.8 G, so you need not worry about which aperture to use. You might even be able to use f/16.0 without problem.


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## JohnYoga

Thank you for all of your help, Michael! You are the best! I have written it all down on my camera 3"x5" cards. Over the last week I have bought the 35mm and the 55-300mm lens. I think I am done with buying for a bit!

Regards,

Marc


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## tyranniux42

EchoingWhisper said:
			
		

> Minimum hand hold speed is 1/50. Sweet spot range... I don't know, like normal, don't use any aperture beyond f/11.0.



I think f3.5 to 4.5 is optimal looking at certain review sites, mine looks great even wide open to be honest but at f3.5 and up is tack sharp


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## EchoingWhisper

tyranniux42 said:


> EchoingWhisper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Minimum hand hold speed is 1/50. Sweet spot range... I don't know, like normal, don't use any aperture beyond f/11.0.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think f3.5 to 4.5 is optimal looking at certain review sites, mine looks great even wide open to be honest but at f3.5 and up is tack sharp
Click to expand...


Yea, I'm just stating usable range without strong blurring. Sweet spot is normally exactly between the minimum aperture and maximum aperture within usable range.


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## JohnYoga

Gentlemen, Hand-hold minimum shutter speed is 1/50 for the 35mm? Did I catch that right? I looked around Google, and didn't see this mentioned.

Regards,

John


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## tyranniux42

Im pretty sure the sweet spot for the 35mm 1.8 is f/3.5

As for hand held im not sure what it is technically but im certain you would get good reaults at anything faster than 1/20


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## JohnYoga

OK! Thanks Tyran...


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## EchoingWhisper

JohnYoga said:


> Gentlemen, Hand-hold minimum shutter speed is 1/50 for the 35mm? Did I catch that right? I looked around Google, and didn't see this mentioned.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> John



Yes it is. 1/(focal length[35mm] x crop factor [1.53]) second = minimum hand hold speed without VR. 1/(focal length x crop factor) x 4 second = minimum hand hold speed with VR. 1/(focal length x crop factor) x 8 second = minimum hand hold speed with VR II.


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## JohnYoga

Thanks Michael. This is good to know...John


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## Intergalactic

Hi all, 

I just wanted to drop by to thank all the contributors to this extremely helpful thread. I've been the very proud owner of a Nikon D5100 for a few weeks now. It's my first DSLR and any thoughts of an expedition away from the big green 'A' were out of the question!

Thanks to this thread (and just a little extra research) I've learned so much it's just incredible. I now know all about my lenses sweet spots and I can absolutely testify to the truth of it. I'm doing landscapes in Aperture Priority, getting amazing results, and I'm taking control of both ISO and focus.

This thread has been an awesome read for me. When I first bought the camera I was a little disappointed with the results. I now know just exactly what I was doing wrong and I'm totally thrilled with the pictures I'm now getting.

Although I'm only very new at photography I've now spent hours noting F Stops, shutter speeds, ISO ratings and focal lengths, judging the best results and studying what went wrong when it went wrong. I had a lot of poor quality shots, but I learned from them and now I have a very good percentage of 'keepers'

Having shown no previous interest, my wife is now eager to have a go. She'd like a camera of her own to learn on and she loves the D5100. It's paradise for me, because she's happy for me to invest in a more updated model after Christmas so she can have the D5100. Yippee! D7000 here I come (unless Nikon release something even better in the meantime)

Just to make it clear, if the D5100 was the only camera I could ever have I wouldn't be disappointed. It's a superb piece of equipment. Yes, it's much harder to learn and use than a 'point and shoot', but stick with it and learn what YOU are doing wrong (not the camera) and the results are so worth it.

Once again, thanks to all those who offered assistance here. So pleased I found this thread

Inter


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