# Negs are focused, paper is not.



## dave chamberlain (Sep 6, 2018)

I'm new to developing my own film, but I seem to have hit a conundrum. 

I shoot HP5+ ISO 400 and Delta Pro 100.

While the (very real?) possibility exists that both my negatives and/or enlarger focusing could be slightly out of focus (I do use a focus finder), my prints are very bad. They aren't even close, in terms of focus, to the negatives.

The neg-holder has glass, so the negatives should be flat. Exposure isn't that long, that heat from the bulb might be warping the negatives (they're still sharp after multiple attempts.) 

Does anyone have any tips or suggestions?

My thoughts right now are that either 1) there is some sort of vibration (the cooling fan in the colour head?) which is blurring the image, or 2) somehow my chemicals (Ilford Multigrade & RapidFixer) are interacting with the emulsion on my paper (Ilford RC Multigrade) and causing distortion of the grain? Or, am I missing a fundamental issue when developing B&W with a Durst CLS500, ie wrong density value dialed in? Currently set at M10, and zeroed on everything else.

Sorry for the essay, but I'm clutching at straws trying to sort this out, so ANY advice would be greatly appreciated. 

Thanks 

P.S. Can't scan negatives, so unable to give a side-by-side comparison of negative vs paper.


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## dxqcanada (Sep 6, 2018)

Hmm, is your focus finder out of wack ... you should be able to see the projected image on the paper to see if it really not in focus.


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## dave chamberlain (Sep 6, 2018)

It's a possibility, but I do focus with the eye before using the finder.
The only other possibility, which I failed to mention, is that I wear contact lenses. I've had an additional check-up just to make sure my prescription is correct. Everything seems to be in order....up until I actually start the print.


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## dxqcanada (Sep 6, 2018)

Can we get some history about this enlarger and lens ... is this the first time using this setup ?


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## dave chamberlain (Sep 6, 2018)

It's a Durst L900. Would have to check the exact details of the 80mm. Can't for the life recall whether it's a Componon or Rodagon.
Have been using it for about 3 weeks now, on and off, so a newbie, but don't understand why the projected image goes from in-focus to out-of-focus, once I start developing


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## dxqcanada (Sep 6, 2018)

Hmm, I am not familiar with that Durst ... from what I am reading it appears it is autofocus ?


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## dave chamberlain (Sep 6, 2018)

Yes...from what I understand, focus is set with head raised to the top of the column. It then transfers across, no matter the height thereafter. However, the photos still come out blurred.


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## Derrel (Sep 6, 2018)

If the in the larger is an auto focus model perhaps it has the wrong Cam installed for the lens in use?

My money is on the focus finder being out of whack. Since you have a glass carrier, I don't think the negative is popping due to heat warping, which happens very often with glass less carriers. After 30 seconds or so a negative will almost invariably pop to a different focus than when the negative is cold, when held in a glass-less carrier..


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## dave chamberlain (Sep 6, 2018)

Hi Derrel, 

I'll have to go check it all thoroughly tomorrow, but it should be fine. It was a working enlarger in an artists darkroom, which was sold for a LF replacement, so in theory, all the bits and pieces are correct.

I failed to mention that I wear contact lenses, but I've even gone back for a re-test of my prescription just to make sure.

I'll scratch around for another focus finder and see whether that solves the problem. Thanks


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## 480sparky (Sep 6, 2018)

Is the paper laying flat in the easel?


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## dave chamberlain (Sep 6, 2018)

Hi there,

Yes, I believe so. I've taken to weighing down all 4 sides, in an attempt to ensure that there is no lifting along the two "open-side" edges.


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## 480sparky (Sep 6, 2018)

When you use the focus finder, are you using it at the center of the image?  And are you focusing on the film grain itself?

Another possibility is something is moving the enlarger when you're exposing the paper.  Machines like washers, dryers, furnaces etc. can vibrate them ever so slightly.  Or something (or someone) walking around on a framed floor.


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## dave chamberlain (Sep 6, 2018)

To be honest, I've spread my focus point around. Usually as close to the middle ie directly under the lens, as possible. But I do chase the darker areas as well, as several people have mentioned that it's easier to find the grain in darker patches. 

Have tried closing up the aperture a bit as well, just to take a bit of strain off the eye. 

I'm doing something fundamental wrong, I just don't know what.


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## 480sparky (Sep 6, 2018)

You should focus with the lens wide open.


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## Derrel (Sep 6, 2018)

Here's a test. First: you ARE using a "dummy" sheet of enlarging paper in the easel when focusing, right? A sheet of the same,exact brand/weight of enlarging paper you will be exposing. Placing *the focusing sheet* in the easel, then placing the grain focuser on top of the sheet, then heating the negative a bit, then focusing, that is the standard operating procedure.

Now...a "cold" negative will come to a focus that is different from a "hot" negative; this is critical when you are using the lens stopped down to f/8 or f/11 and making a long exposure, such as say, 30 seconds or so. If you will be doing long print exposures, you MUST focus with the negative "hot", after it has "popped"...otherwise the focus will be wrong.

I wonder about the grain focuser: if it came from the factory with a thin, 1-millimeter thick foot pad, and that pad is gone...it will throw the focus off on the enlargements.

If the easel is not level, it can mess with the focus. Does the easel have 4 rubber feet? Are they uniform?

If the enlarger column is not firmly screwed down to the enlarger baseboard, it can cause issues.

Everything must be tight, and aligned...negative stage must be aligned...etc..


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## dave chamberlain (Sep 7, 2018)

Hi Derrel, 

Thanks for that. I'll have a proper look at my focus finder to see that it is complete, and, I didn't know that about neg temperature. I realised that the heat would affect the material, but never consciously "heated it up" prior. I assumed the glass would negate any movement of the negative, but I'll go and see if that helps today.


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## Derrel (Sep 7, 2018)

I think you're right about the glass carrier keeping the negative perfectly flat...I have always used glass-less carriers, and the negatives "pop!" when they heat up...just as do projected slides when projected for a while.

I hope you can get to the bottom of the problem!


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## Christie Photo (Sep 7, 2018)

Is this occurring with just this one negative?

-Pete


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## webestang64 (Sep 7, 2018)

You might want to ask about the problem here in the analog section.......     Photrio.com Photography Forums


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## bulldurham (Sep 9, 2018)

I think you might find that the lens is not exactly parallel to the paper frame which will fubar everything. (I built a box that was exactly square, pulled the enlarging head down so that the lens face was square to the top of the box, then locked everything down.) 

Next, I will guess it is your grain focuser. If you are not using this one Bestwell Mini Sight Grain Focuser 10x | Freestyle Photographic Supplies, you're probably wasting your time. Cheeser focusers  aren't worth beans.

Lastly, are you sure the 80mm lens is the correct lens for the film format you are shooting?


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## petrochemist (Sep 9, 2018)

bulldurham said:


> I think you might find that the lens is not exactly parallel to the paper frame which will fubar everything. (I built a box that was exactly square, pulled the enlarging head down so that the lens face was square to the top of the box, then locked everything down.)
> 
> Next, I will guess it is your grain focuser. If you are not using this one Bestwell Mini Sight Grain Focuser 10x | Freestyle Photographic Supplies, you're probably wasting your time. Cheeser focusers  aren't worth beans.
> 
> Lastly, are you sure the 80mm lens is the correct lens for the film format you are shooting?


If the cause is simply lens isn't parallel some of the image should be focused.
I was actually going to suggest a similar experiment. Deliberately tilt the paper when making a print. If the fault is related to vibration it will still be blurred with the sharpest bit in the area where you focused.
If the focus is out, it should get sharper moving away from the point of focus. The direction it gets sharper in tells you if its focusing too close or too far away.


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## bulldurham (Sep 9, 2018)

What format negative are you using with the 80mm?


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## 480sparky (Sep 9, 2018)

bulldurham said:


> What format negative are you using with the 80mm?



Personally, I'd be using an 80mm on 6x4.5.


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## bulldurham (Sep 9, 2018)

but not on 35mm


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## ricklb55 (Sep 11, 2018)

When using the focus finder are you placing it on top of sheet of paper equal to the thickness of the photographic paper?  Also, are you sure you are exposing the emulsion side of the photographic paper?  Lastly, use a small f-stop when exposing the paper, but not the smallest on your enlarger lense.  If you are doing all of this then the problem is either the focus finder needs calibration or vibration.


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## vintagesnaps (Sep 11, 2018)

I wasn't sure at first what was meant by a 'focus finder' - I've always heard it called a grain scope. Sounds like you need to learn how to focus the grain. Projecting the image may look like it's in focus but you still need to adjust to get the grain in focus. 

I use a piece of white paper or thin cardboard to focus on especially if the easel is yellow and/or well used and nicked up. (Those Ilford cardboard packages that photo paper comes in can be handy for burning in a corner or to cut up to custom burn in a portion of an image.) 

I had to think what I've done (since it's been awhile but I've done enough printing to not have to think much about what I'm doing). I think I usually focus on an area that has some dark and light (maybe more dark) or maybe an edge or line, on subject more than background.

I've used a shared darkroom at a college and between the radio cranked up, water running, fan going, students clattering around, I don't think vibration would be that much of a problem (or could be sometimes but not all the time). I also never had negatives 'pop' but I usually would be in the 10-15 sec. range for exposures. 

Maybe check and make sure the enlarging lens is dust free; I usually carried a microfiber cloth because students are little piggies and don't think to dust the lens once in awhile (or anything else).


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## 480sparky (Sep 11, 2018)

I wonder if we'll ever find out if a solution was found.


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## Christie Photo (Sep 11, 2018)

480sparky said:


> I wonder if we'll ever find out if a solution was found.


We'll have to wait until the OP returns.  If this is happening with just one negative, then the neg isn't sharp.

I can't believe it's a focus issue.  He could focus visually without any aid and get acceptable results.  

Too bad we don't get to see a scan of the neg.

-Pete


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## vintagesnaps (Sep 11, 2018)

Did he look at the negatives closely? If he doesn't have a lightbox, could use a lampshade. Of course with 35mm the negs aren't that large, but seems like I can tell when it's enlarged if an image was out of focus or if there was blur. 

Meanwhile, the suspense grows... lol


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## Christie Photo (Sep 11, 2018)

vintagesnaps said:


> Did he look at the negatives closely?



That's what I'm thinking.  A simple loupe is all that's needed.

-Pete


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