# Wondering: D7000 vs D800 vs D700



## graecyn

Hi all!

I recently (about a month ago) got a Nikon D7000 camera. I'm an amateur photographer at best right now, hoping to "go pro" at some point - at the moment, I am just learning all the technicalities of camera operation and practicing practicing practicing. For now - the D7000 camera is great for my needs. However I am wondering one particular thing. I DO plan on buying a pro camera ASAP, to the point where I'm considering selling the D7000 and using that money + my tax refund to purchase the D800 in March when it is released.

So I guess what I really want to know is - do I bite the bullet, sell the D7000 and buy the pro camera? Or do I hang on to the mid-grade one for a bit while I keep up with my learning and practicing?

FYI: I photograph mostly people, food, nature and stationary objects.

Thoughts welcome!


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## o hey tyler

Well considering you have only one lens... and that's the kit lens. You wouldn't want to use that on a D700 or a D800 (ESPECIALLY not the D800). 

I think your tax refund should go to some good non-DX lenses, rather than a new camera body that you wouldn't even be able to effectively use with your current lens lineup.


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## graecyn

I'm not really worried about having the best lenses right off the bat, or even "using the camera effectively" right away. I can buy new glass in time. I'm more interested in knowing if diving right in to having a pro DSLR is a better idea than hanging on to a mid-grade one.


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## Mach0

I'd just hang on to it and practice. Both can produce excellent images if used correctly. You can get some lenses to go with the camera. I'd say a 50 1.8 for the time being and a 70-300. Both will work if you go FX body. I only suggest the 70-300 since its not expensive and is decent. If you needed something extravagant, you'd probably know by now.


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## Mach0

graecyn said:
			
		

> I'm not really worried about having the best lenses right off the bat, or even "using the camera effectively" right away. I can buy new glass in time. I'm more interested in knowing if diving right in to having a pro DSLR is a better idea than hanging on to a mid-grade one.



It's a better camera but with all due respect, a better body will only give you better images if you know what you are doing.


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## o hey tyler

graecyn said:


> I'm not really worried about having the best lenses right off the bat, or even "using the camera effectively" right away. I can buy new glass in time. I'm more interested in knowing if diving right in to having a pro DSLR is a better idea than hanging on to a mid-grade one.



I am telling you... NO. It wouldn't be good! If you got a D700 and used the 18-55mm kit lens on it, you're going to have 6mp images. If you get the D800, you're going to have soft 18mp images. DX lenses only provide an image circle on a full frame sensor, they do not cover the entirety of the 35mm sensor. So unless you shoot in crop frame mode, you'll have EXTREME vignetting around your photos. 

With full frame sensors that are demanding of glass capable of creating sharp images at high resolution, you will not gain anything from switching bodies other than ISO performance. The D7000 is no slouch. It has a lot of the same features as the D700 and D800. 

You'd literally be getting a Porsche, but having a Yugo engine power the thing. It would be an awful waste of money for you to upgrade with your current one kit lens.


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## ghache

send me the money.


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## graecyn

Obviously, I wouldn't be keeping (or using) the kit lens on a pro camera body. Hell, I don't even want to keep or use the kit lens on the D7000. My #1 priority is getting at least 1 quality lens. I might be amatuer, but I'm not stupid. I don't know why you'd assume I'd even attempt using this lens on a D700 or D800. lol

Anyway - thanks. I'm thinking I will buy the D800 regardless and get a few, better lenses.


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## Mach0

graecyn said:


> Obviously, I wouldn't be keeping (or using) the kit lens on a pro camera body. I might be amatuer, but I'm not stupid. I don't know why you'd assume that. lolAnyway - thanks. I'm thinking I will buy the D800 regardless and get a few, better lenses.


Good luck. You can always sell me the d7000 lol.


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## Mach0

If you don't mind me asking, what does your d7000 limit you on that the d800 will address?


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## graecyn

It's not that it's a limitation. It's more that I'm lazy and don't want to get used to one camera (the mid-grade d7000) knowing that I will inevitably buy a pro-grade one in the future.


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## graecyn

I guess it would be a purchase of laziness. I'd rather buy, learn on, and invest in glass for a pro-grade camera more than I would a mid-grade one.


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## o hey tyler

graecyn said:


> Obviously, I wouldn't be keeping (or using) the kit lens on a pro camera body. Hell, I don't even want to keep or use the kit lens on the D7000. My #1 priority is getting at least 1 quality lens. I might be amatuer, but I'm not stupid. *I don't know why you'd assume I'd even attempt using this lens on a D700 or D800*. lol
> 
> Anyway - thanks. I'm thinking I will buy the D800 regardless and get a few, better lenses.



You don't know why I'd assume you'd use your kit lens on the D800? 

Because you didn't mention BUYING any lenses to go with the D800. That's why. 

You really need to get your priorities straight. You'd be making a poor decision IMHO. A "pro body" does not a "pro photographer" make. 

This is a common misconception among amateurs. They often think, "Why should I stick with my current entry level or mid grade body, when I could buy a PRO BODY OMGLOL and be a PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHER!?!" I'm *not* saying that's you, believe me. But we do get a good flow of threads with that same mindset coming through the forum. They don't take into account the lenses that they want to use, or even know what lenses TO use. 

Again, I will reiterate. Unless you're going to be buying some SERIOUS glass with your D800, I'd just stick to buying serious glass rather than a new body. The D800 has a 36mp Full Frame sensor. Photographic technique and high end lenses are both paramount when using that camera. It will most likely make your photos look worse than on the D7k IMHO.

What you're failing to understand is that the guts of the camera are the same. You don't need to "learn photography" on a pro camera body. It's going to expose exactly the same way as on your D7k. The shutter speed and aperture wheels are in the same spot. Cosmetically the cameras are pretty similar. You're not gaining a whole lot by moving to a full frame body, especially if you don't even know WHAT you're gaining.


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## Mach0

graecyn said:
			
		

> It's not that it's a limitation. It's more that I'm lazy and don't want to get used to one camera (the mid-grade d7000) knowing that I will inevitably buy a pro-grade one in the future.


 

The layout wouldn't be that different. You'd run into user errors or limitations before that camera will limit you. There's always new bodies coming out. If money is not an issue, get the best you can afford. Otherwise, don't put all your money into a body if you don't have the funds necessary for lenses to utilize its potential for the sake of being "pro." If that's the case, Nikon will have another lineup of FF bodies by the time you have good glass. Be smart about your choices.


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## graecyn

o hey tyler said:


> graecyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously, I wouldn't be keeping (or using) the kit lens on a pro camera body. Hell, I don't even want to keep or use the kit lens on the D7000. My #1 priority is getting at least 1 quality lens. I might be amatuer, but I'm not stupid. *I don't know why you'd assume I'd even attempt using this lens on a D700 or D800*. lol
> 
> Anyway - thanks. I'm thinking I will buy the D800 regardless and get a few, better lenses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't know why I'd assume you'd use your kit lens on the D800?
> 
> Because you didn't mention BUYING any lenses to go with the D800. That's why.
> 
> You really need to get your priorities straight. You'd be making a poor decision IMHO. A "pro body" does not a "pro photographer" make.
> 
> This is a common misconception among amateurs. They often think, "Why should I stick with my current entry level or mid grade body, when I could buy a PRO BODY OMGLOL and be a PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHER!?!" I'm *not* saying that's you, believe me. But we do get a good flow of threads with that same mindset coming through the forum. They don't take into account the lenses that they want to use, or even know what lenses TO use.
> 
> Again, I will reiterate. Unless you're going to be buying some SERIOUS glass with your D800, I'd just stick to buying serious glass rather than a new body. The D800 has a 36mp Full Frame sensor. Photographic technique and high end lenses are both paramount when using that camera. It will most likely make your photos look worse than on the D7k IMHO.
> 
> What you're failing to understand is that the guts of the camera are the same. You don't need to "learn photography" on a pro camera body. It's going to expose exactly the same way as on your D7k. The shutter speed and aperture wheels are in the same spot. Cosmetically the cameras are pretty similar. You're not gaining a whole lot by moving to a full frame body, especially if you don't even know WHAT you're gaining.
Click to expand...


Thanks, both for the input and the insults.  I'll still be buying the D800. Have a nice day.


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## Tee

Sounds like your wants are overpowering your needs.  You have several posts contradicting themselves when called to the carpet (re: good glass).  If you think you can't produce professional quality images with a D7000 and a 1.8 or 2.8 lens, then you haven't researched your D7000 well enough.  You must be in a rush to go pro as you can't take the time to learn your current camera.  Either way, your original question is moot.  You're buying the D800.  Gotcha.  Have fun!


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## graecyn

Mach0 said:


> graecyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not that it's a limitation. It's more that I'm lazy and don't want to get used to one camera (the mid-grade d7000) knowing that I will inevitably buy a pro-grade one in the future.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The layout wouldn't be that different. You'd run into user errors or limitations before that camera will limit you. There's always new bodies coming out. If money is not an issue, get the best you can afford. Otherwise, don't put all your money into a body if you don't have the funds necessary for lenses to utilize its potential for the sake of being "pro." If that's the case, Nikon will have another lineup of FF bodies by the time you have good glass. Be smart about your choices.
Click to expand...


Nah - this is more a question of... "What do I really want to do with my tax return". I'd rather spend the money on a pro camera body (just to get it out of the way) and a couple of good lenses, versus a bundle of good lenses I may or may not ever use. I'm thinking investing in a good body + a couple of lenses I could use to evaluate what I do or do not need as far as lenses are concerned and go from there would be a better decision for my own personal purposes.


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## o hey tyler

graecyn said:


> o hey tyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> graecyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously, I wouldn't be keeping (or using) the kit lens on a pro camera body. Hell, I don't even want to keep or use the kit lens on the D7000. My #1 priority is getting at least 1 quality lens. I might be amatuer, but I'm not stupid. *I don't know why you'd assume I'd even attempt using this lens on a D700 or D800*. lol
> 
> Anyway - thanks. I'm thinking I will buy the D800 regardless and get a few, better lenses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't know why I'd assume you'd use your kit lens on the D800?
> 
> Because you didn't mention BUYING any lenses to go with the D800. That's why.
> 
> You really need to get your priorities straight. You'd be making a poor decision IMHO. A "pro body" does not a "pro photographer" make.
> 
> This is a common misconception among amateurs. They often think, "Why should I stick with my current entry level or mid grade body, when I could buy a PRO BODY OMGLOL and be a PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHER!?!" I'm *not* saying that's you, believe me. But we do get a good flow of threads with that same mindset coming through the forum. They don't take into account the lenses that they want to use, or even know what lenses TO use.
> 
> Again, I will reiterate. Unless you're going to be buying some SERIOUS glass with your D800, I'd just stick to buying serious glass rather than a new body. The D800 has a 36mp Full Frame sensor. Photographic technique and high end lenses are both paramount when using that camera. It will most likely make your photos look worse than on the D7k IMHO.
> 
> What you're failing to understand is that the guts of the camera are the same. You don't need to "learn photography" on a pro camera body. It's going to expose exactly the same way as on your D7k. The shutter speed and aperture wheels are in the same spot. Cosmetically the cameras are pretty similar. You're not gaining a whole lot by moving to a full frame body, especially if you don't even know WHAT you're gaining.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks, both for the input and the insults.  I'll still be buying the D800. Have a nice day.
Click to expand...


I wasn't trying to insult you, but take it as you will. I'm trying to aggressively point out that you're making a *bad decison... *Because you are. I'm genuinely trying to help here. But it seems you're more concerned with pressing the "buy" button on a D800 rather than investing in glass that you can actually take full advantage of the camera with. 

Have fun shooting soft 18mp images with your kit lens. 

PS. Why did you even ask for advice? You were given suggestions by two people who actually know what they're talking about, and chose to disregard and combat it through and through. Throw your money away at a camera. It's YOUR money afterall. Just bear in mind that you're making a bad decision... A very bad one.


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## Robin Usagani

I wouldnt get the D800.. get a D4!  Go all out.


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## o hey tyler

graecyn said:


> Mach0 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> graecyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not that it's a limitation. It's more that I'm lazy and don't want to get used to one camera (the mid-grade d7000) knowing that I will inevitably buy a pro-grade one in the future.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The layout wouldn't be that different. You'd run into user errors or limitations before that camera will limit you. There's always new bodies coming out. If money is not an issue, get the best you can afford. Otherwise, don't put all your money into a body if you don't have the funds necessary for lenses to utilize its potential for the sake of being "pro." If that's the case, Nikon will have another lineup of FF bodies by the time you have good glass. Be smart about your choices.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nah - this is more a question of... "What do I really want to do with my tax return". I'd rather spend the money on a pro camera body (just to get it out of the way) and a couple of good lenses, versus a bundle of good lenses I may or may not ever use. I'm thinking investing in a good body + a couple of lenses I could use to evaluate what I do or do not need as far as lenses are concerned and go from there would be a better decision for my own personal purposes.
Click to expand...


Well, considering you don't have any good lenses right now... I don't know why you wouldn't invest in a 24-70 f/2.8 and a 70-200mm f/2.8 as well as some fast primes.


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## graecyn

Tee said:


> Sounds like your wants are overpowering your needs.  You have several posts contradicting themselves when called to the carpet (re: good glass).  If you think you can't produce professional quality images with a D7000 and a 1.8 or 2.8 lens, then you haven't researched your D7000 well enough.  You must be in a rush to go pro as you can't take the time to learn your current camera.  Either way, your original question is moot.  You're buying the D800.  Gotcha.  Have fun!



It's not that I don't think I could, it's that I've never used a Nikon DSLR before - my last camera was a Canon. So that's what I'm used to. I'm not in a rush to do anything, otherwise I'd have "gone pro" when I first started mucking about with my first DSLR years ago. Being that it's my first Nikon though and I know that I'd like to buy a pro-grade camera regardless at some point, you're right, maybe it is a "want" vs a "need". I don't really "need" anything. But I do know that I "want" a pro-grade camera after years of having beginner to mid-grade ones.

Maybe that just answered my own question.


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## o hey tyler

graecyn said:


> I don't really "need" anything.



Uh, yes you do. More glass. 

Ugh, I give up. You're hopeless.


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## Mach0

graecyn said:
			
		

> Nah - this is more a question of... "What do I really want to do with my tax return". I'd rather spend the money on a pro camera body (just to get it out of the way) and a couple of good lenses, versus a bundle of good lenses I may or may not ever use. I'm thinking investing in a good body + a couple of lenses I could use to evaluate what I do or do not need as far as lenses are concerned and go from there would be a better decision for my own personal purposes.




Lenses will yield better results than a body without glass. That 36mp ff will need some serious glass. If you spent the same on lenses as you would on the d800, you would be surprised what you can produce. If you find that you are limited by then, then get the d800. Lenses are the real investment. If you aren't that good with the d7000, the d800 will show your mistakes even more.  If you have already made up your mind, why make a thread?


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## graecyn

o hey tyler said:


> graecyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't really "need" anything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uh, yes you do. More glass.
> 
> Ugh, I give up. You're hopeless.
Click to expand...


I'm pretty sure I've already said, two or three times now, that I intend to buy a couple of good lenses.
You're simply choosing not to acknowledge that I've said it. lol


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## o hey tyler

Mach0 said:


> If you have already made up your mind, why make a thread?



Quoted for truth.


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## graecyn

Mach0 said:


> graecyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nah - this is more a question of... "What do I really want to do with my  tax return". I'd rather spend the money on a pro camera body (just to  get it out of the way) and a couple of good lenses, versus a bundle of  good lenses I may or may not ever use. I'm thinking investing in a good  body + a couple of lenses I could use to evaluate what I do or do not  need as far as lenses are concerned and go from there would be a better  decision for my own personal purposes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lenses will yield better results than a body without glass. That 36mp ff  will need some serious glass. If you spent the same on lenses as you  would on the d800, you would be surprised what you can produce. If you  find that you are limited by then, then get the d800. Lenses are the  real investment. If you aren't that good with the d7000, the d800 will  show your mistakes even more.  If you have already made up your mind,  why make a thread?
Click to expand...


I haven't  necessarily made up my mind just yet. I AM leaning more towards a D800  though, purely to get the purchase of a pro-grade camera out of the way.  Because ultimately that's what I want. 

I'll take into  consideration buying a couple of lenses that will work on an FX when I  get it though. Considering I'll have my tax return before the D800 is  released anyway, that will happen first regardless of which direction I  take.

And why make a thread? Just to talk it out. I'm not looking  for anyone to make decisions for me really, in the end I'll still do  what I want. I'm hard-headed like that. I'm more curious what people  think who may or may not know more than I do.


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## Mach0

http://www.scribd.com/mobile/documents/19442574/download?commit=Download+Now&secret_password=


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## graecyn

Mach0 said:


> http://www.scribd.com/mobile/documents/19442574/download?commit=Download+Now&secret_password=



Thank you, but I'm not an absolute beginner.  Just continuously considering myself an amateur.


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## Mach0

graecyn said:
			
		

> I haven't  necessarily made up my mind just yet. I AM leaning more towards a D800  though, purely to get the purchase of a pro-grade camera out of the way.  Because ultimately that's what I want.
> 
> I'll take into  consideration buying a couple of lenses that will work on an FX when I  get it though. Considering I'll have my tax return before the D800 is  released anyway, that will happen first regardless of which direction I  take.
> 
> And why make a thread? Just to talk it out. I'm not looking  for anyone to make decisions for me really, in the end I'll still do  what I want. I'm hard-headed like that. I'm more curious what people  think who may or may not know more than I do.



You are right in doing what you want to do... If you are interested in our input, then take into consideration when all of us that chimed in agreed on one thing...... There's nothing wrong with the d7000. Spend the money on lenses. If
You are stuck on a pro body, I understand, but think of this.... Why is the d7000 used by many pros as a back up camera? Because paired with pro glass and in the hands of a skilled photographer, can yield pro results.


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## Mach0

graecyn said:
			
		

> Thank you, but I'm not an absolute beginner.  Just continuously considering myself an amateur.



Page 45- 
The importance of lenses.


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## graecyn

Mach0 said:


> graecyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you, but I'm not an absolute beginner.  Just continuously considering myself an amateur.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Page 45-
> The importance of lenses.
Click to expand...


I know that glass is important. I'm not DEBATING that. That was never the issue. I know that, if I invested in good glass, I could potentially produce photos with a D7000 that are on par and relatively indistinguishable from a D700 for example, save for ISO noise in lower light conditions. That is not what I'm worried about. Investing in glass is not the issue.

It is an inner dilemma of whether or not to sit on the D7000 and learn to use it (as my first ever Nikon camera) that I could potentially need to replace in a year anyway as technology progresses - or to invest in the D800 - a newer, pro-grade, full frame camera body that I eventually (and will inevitably) upgrade to one day, that I will not feel the need to replace for several years to come. I doubt that a D900 will be coming out anytime soon, considering it's taken 3 1/2 years for the D800 to be released.


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## graecyn

Anyway - thanks Mach0. I will take your words into consideration. You've been much more helpful. Thank you.


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## Derrel

graecyn said:


> I guess it would be a purchase of laziness. I'd rather buy, learn on, and invest in glass for a pro-grade camera more than I would a mid-grade one.



Well then, it sounds like your decision ought to be easy. Buy an FX Nikon body. The D700 can utilize most of the Nikkor lenses made since 1977 without any lens modifications, both with manual and with autofocusing lenses. A 12 MP FX sensor does pretty well across a wide spectrum of shooting situations, and is not super-critical about the lenses mounted on it. There are over 70 million Nikon-made F-mount lenses in circulation, so you ought to be able to locate four or five of them for your own use. If you plan,within a year, on having an FX format Nikon, then it makes sense to buy one NOW, and use it. A year goes by pretty rapidly. I myself have tried the D7000's viewfinder, and find it to be seriously lacking for *me*, with the type of eyeglasses I wear...the "pro" Nikons have long had bigger, better viewfinders--the kind with the 22mm round eyepiece, not that awful small rectangular style.


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## o hey tyler

graecyn said:


> It is an inner dilemma of whether or not to sit on the D7000 and learn to use it (as my first ever Nikon camera) *that I could potentially need to replace in a year anyway as technology progresses *- or to invest in the D800 - a newer, pro-grade, full frame camera body that I eventually (and will inevitably) upgrade to one day, that I will not feel the need to replace for several years to come. I doubt that a D900 will be coming out anytime soon, considering it's taken 3 1/2 years for the D800 to be released.



This is another thing you don't understand. People don't NEED to replace camera bodies as technology "progresses." 

My primary body is from 2006, it's a 5D Mark I and it puts out great images. My SECOND body is a 5D Mark II from 2008, which also puts out great images. 

Again... It's not the BODY, it's the GLASS that's in front of it.


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## graecyn

Derrel said:


> graecyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess it would be a purchase of laziness. I'd rather buy, learn on, and invest in glass for a pro-grade camera more than I would a mid-grade one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well then, it sounds like your decision ought to be easy. Buy an FX Nikon body. The D700 can utilize most of the Nikkor lenses made since 1977 without any lens modifications, both with manual and with autofocusing lenses. A 12 MP FX sensor does pretty well across a wide spectrum of shooting situations, and is not super-critical about the lenses mounted on it. There are over 70 million Nikon-made F-mount lenses in circulation, so you ought to be able to locate four or five of them for your own use.
Click to expand...


Thank you! The first response I've gotten where I didn't feel attacked for daring to go from a D7000 to a D7/800 lol. 
You make a good point.


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## graecyn

o hey tyler said:


> graecyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is an inner dilemma of whether or not to sit on the D7000 and learn to use it (as my first ever Nikon camera) *that I could potentially need to replace in a year anyway as technology progresses *- or to invest in the D800 - a newer, pro-grade, full frame camera body that I eventually (and will inevitably) upgrade to one day, that I will not feel the need to replace for several years to come. I doubt that a D900 will be coming out anytime soon, considering it's taken 3 1/2 years for the D800 to be released.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is another thing you don't understand. People don't NEED to replace camera bodies as technology "progresses."
> 
> My primary body is from 2006, it's a 5D Mark I and it puts out great images. My SECOND body is a 5D Mark II from 2008, which also puts out great images.
> 
> Again... It's not the BODY, it's the GLASS that's in front of it.
Click to expand...


Yes, yes, thank you, you may move along. I'm more interested in conversing with the people that do not feel the need to insinuate that I'm an idiot.


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## o hey tyler

graecyn said:


> o hey tyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> graecyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is an inner dilemma of whether or not to sit on the D7000 and learn to use it (as my first ever Nikon camera) *that I could potentially need to replace in a year anyway as technology progresses *- or to invest in the D800 - a newer, pro-grade, full frame camera body that I eventually (and will inevitably) upgrade to one day, that I will not feel the need to replace for several years to come. I doubt that a D900 will be coming out anytime soon, considering it's taken 3 1/2 years for the D800 to be released.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is another thing you don't understand. People don't NEED to replace camera bodies as technology "progresses."
> 
> My primary body is from 2006, it's a 5D Mark I and it puts out great images. My SECOND body is a 5D Mark II from 2008, which also puts out great images.
> 
> Again... It's not the BODY, it's the GLASS that's in front of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, yes, thank you, you may move along. I'm more interested in conversing with the people that do not feel the need to insinuate that I'm an idiot.
Click to expand...


I'm not insinuating that you're an idiot. I'm insinuating that you don't know what you're getting yourself into with the D800... Which it appears you don't, nor would I expect you to. 

As Derrel mentioned, the D700 would be a MUCH BETTER IDEA than the D800 for you... Even still, I'd invest in glass prior to getting a new body. But that's me.


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## graecyn

o hey tyler said:


> graecyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> o hey tyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is another thing you don't understand. People don't NEED to replace camera bodies as technology "progresses."
> 
> My primary body is from 2006, it's a 5D Mark I and it puts out great  images. My SECOND body is a 5D Mark II from 2008, which also puts out  great images.
> 
> Again... It's not the BODY, it's the GLASS that's in front of it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, yes, thank you, you may move along. I'm more interested in  conversing with the people that do not feel the need to insinuate that  I'm an idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not insinuating that you're an idiot. I'm insinuating that you don't  know what you're getting yourself into with the D800... Which it  appears you don't, nor would I expect you to.
> 
> As Derrel mentioned, the D700 would be a MUCH BETTER IDEA than the D800  for you... Even still, I'd invest in glass prior to getting a new body.  But that's me.
Click to expand...


The D700 is also a consideration (as I thought might be evident given the title of this thread - clearly I was wrong).
I  don't think "knowing what I'm getting myself into with the D800" is  really an accurate statement though. It's a camera, not a king cobra.  Let's be real here.

Anyway - I will be investing in glass prior  to upgrading the body regardless, all things considered. My first few  purchases will likely be a 50mm f/1.8, an 85mm f/1.4 and a few decent accessories: the SB-910 Speedlight and the battery grip. Those are the 4 things I'll be buying prior to making a body upgrade.


----------



## o hey tyler

graecyn said:


> o hey tyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> graecyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, yes, thank you, you may move along. I'm more interested in  conversing with the people that do not feel the need to insinuate that  I'm an idiot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not insinuating that you're an idiot. I'm insinuating that you don't  know what you're getting yourself into with the D800... Which it  appears you don't, nor would I expect you to.
> 
> As Derrel mentioned, the D700 would be a MUCH BETTER IDEA than the D800  for you... Even still, I'd invest in glass prior to getting a new body.  But that's me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The D700 is also a consideration (as I thought might be evident given the title of this thread - clearly I was wrong).
> I  don't think "knowing what I'm getting myself into with the D800" is  really an accurate statement though. *It's a camera, not a king cobra.  Let's be real here.*
Click to expand...


This is what I was talking about... You don't know what you're getting yourself into. 

It's a different beast to shoot. It has MUCH MORE resolution, so camera shake, and crappy glass will make itself known very quickly... Especially if you're looking to crop your images.

There's a reason that Nikon introduced a PDF full of literature about how to use the D800 purely because of the fact that the sensor is of such a high resolution. 

If you don't know how to use a camera, hold a camera, and have good lenses, the D800 will work against you. That's what I've been trying to tell you this entire thread. I've been trying to HELP you not HURT you. 

http://www.nikonusa.com/en_US/o/Y6wrkA9OU_z04IreazIXl_22UII/PDF/D800_TechnicalGuide_En.pdf


----------



## rgribbons

How about this?
Many "pro" photographers prefer to have more than 1 body in the event of problems.
If you hold onto the D7000, learn it well and buy the pro glass then when you come to NEED the pro body any bugs that may arise with the D800 in use will be identified/ironed out. You may also find that through learning the D7000 you will better understand what your needs are and that will also help you make the decision on what to by. You may find a D4 is more suitable! You would also find some low usage used bodies on the market that would save you some money toward other items

This is just an alternative view, take from it as you will


----------



## graecyn

o hey tyler said:


> graecyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> o hey tyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not insinuating that you're an idiot. I'm insinuating that you don't  know what you're getting yourself into with the D800... Which it  appears you don't, nor would I expect you to.
> 
> As Derrel mentioned, the D700 would be a MUCH BETTER IDEA than the D800  for you... Even still, I'd invest in glass prior to getting a new body.  But that's me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The D700 is also a consideration (as I thought might be evident given the title of this thread - clearly I was wrong).
> I  don't think "knowing what I'm getting myself into with the D800" is  really an accurate statement though. *It's a camera, not a king cobra.  Let's be real here.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is what I was talking about... You don't know what you're getting yourself into.
> 
> It's a different beast to shoot. It has MUCH MORE resolution, so camera shake, and crappy glass will make itself known very quickly... Especially if you're looking to crop your images.
> 
> There's a reason that Nikon introduced a PDF full of literature about how to use the D800 purely because of the fact that the sensor is of such a high resolution.
> 
> If you don't know how to use a camera, hold a camera, and have good lenses, the D800 will work against you. That's what I've been trying to tell you this entire thread. I've been trying to HELP you not HURT you.
> 
> http://www.nikonusa.com/en_US/o/Y6wrkA9OU_z04IreazIXl_22UII/PDF/D800_TechnicalGuide_En.pdf
Click to expand...


*sighs*

I give up. I don't know how many times I have to explain that I'm not new to Digital SLR cameras. I simply consider myself an amateur photographer. That doesn't mean that I haven't been using DSLRs for years now. It's not like I woke up yesterday and said "Hey - I think I'll buy a D800 tomorrow." The only drawback I'm having is that I'm transitioning from Canon DSLRs to Nikon, and I feel the need to learn the Nikon camera technology as deeply as I knew the Canon. Which is why the question is "Should I learn on the Nikon D7000 or the D800". That does not equal "complete and total idiot to the digital camera world".


----------



## graecyn

rgribbons said:


> How about this?
> Many "pro" photographers prefer to have more than 1 body in the event of problems.
> If you hold onto the D7000, learn it well and buy the pro glass then when you come to NEED the pro body any bugs that may arise with the D800 in use will be identified/ironed out. You may also find that through learning the D7000 you will better understand what your needs are and that will also help you make the decision on what to by. You may find a D4 is more suitable! You would also find some low usage used bodies on the market that would save you some money toward other items
> 
> This is just an alternative view, take from it as you will



Yes, I'd taken that into consideration (the multiple bodies). To be honest, that is the one reason I DO want to hang on to the D7000. I'd like to keep it as a "backup camera". I already know that one day I'll buy either the D700 or the D800, it's just a matter of when really. Do I want to have the D7000 as a backup? Perhaps... it's crossed my mind. And is a good, valid point.

And yes, considering this is my first Nikon camera, it is possible that a different pro-grade body would suit me more. You're right! Well thought out. Also taken into consideration.  Thank you!


----------



## matthewo

Its pretty clear the OP wants a FX camera. 

Usually when someone wants something bad enough an internet forum isnt going to help you. 

You asked for advice but its clear you know what you want. 

New bodies come out yearly. Good lenses last 10+ years. 

I have a d7000 and over 3k worth of mid-good glass just waiting for a FX when ever im ready. But still the d7000 only works better with good glass so its a win win for me. 

But do what you want, its your money

also keep your d7000.  for the $900 or so you would get for it, its worth it to have a backup.  no worse then having thousands of dollars worth of lenses ready and your main FX camera poop out on you....


----------



## cgipson1

I woud keep the D7000 (great body.. I have one!).. and spend that money on lenses. As mentioned.. the D800 will be difficult to "learn" on.. since the high resolution will require* perfect* technique! You would be much better off using the D7000 with some good lenses, and upgrading bodies after you have mastered the 7000.

I have ordered D4 also... but I already have several top of the line Nikon lenses. They work great with the D7000.. and will work great with the D4 (or D800). Lenses are more important than the body!

You state you have been shooting for several years... please post a link to some of your work. Would love to see it.. and it would also allow us to form better opinions of your current ability.


----------



## Tee

graecyn said:


> Thank you! The first response I've gotten where I didn't feel attacked for daring to go from a D7000 to a D7/800 lol.
> You make a good point.



You might want to go back and read your first replies from an objective outsiders read.  You were given reasons why staying with the D7000 was worth it and you completely dismissed it.  You first said you weren't concerned about glass and then backtracked and said you wanted a few good lenses.  You're getting a D800.  Awesome.  Can't wait to see your images!

If I had a D7000, here's how I'd spend my tax return:

24-70 2.8
70-200 2.8 VRII

2- AB800's
1-AB1600
cybersyncs
1- portable power pack
Sekonic L-358

Open Facebook business page.

[/thread]


----------



## Dao

I will buy the glass first.  Those stupid lenses keep getting expensive.  But the body price usually drop with time. So ...


Buy lenses now and enjoy the amazing image quality.  
Have extra cash in a couple of years.
Then use the money and buy the full frame body.
And that will make you really happy.
Plus you may find that save you some money.


----------



## Ballistics

graecyn said:


> o hey tyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> graecyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> The D700 is also a consideration (as I thought might be evident given the title of this thread - clearly I was wrong).
> I don't think "knowing what I'm getting myself into with the D800" is really an accurate statement though. *It's a camera, not a king cobra. Let's be real here.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what I was talking about... You don't know what you're getting yourself into.
> 
> It's a different beast to shoot. It has MUCH MORE resolution, so camera shake, and crappy glass will make itself known very quickly... Especially if you're looking to crop your images.
> 
> There's a reason that Nikon introduced a PDF full of literature about how to use the D800 purely because of the fact that the sensor is of such a high resolution.
> 
> If you don't know how to use a camera, hold a camera, and have good lenses, the D800 will work against you. That's what I've been trying to tell you this entire thread. I've been trying to HELP you not HURT you.
> 
> http://www.nikonusa.com/en_US/o/Y6wrkA9OU_z04IreazIXl_22UII/PDF/D800_TechnicalGuide_En.pdf
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *sighs*
> 
> I give up. I don't know how many times I have to explain that I'm not new to Digital SLR cameras. I simply consider myself an amateur photographer. That doesn't mean that I haven't been using DSLRs for years now. It's not like I woke up yesterday and said "Hey - I think I'll buy a D800 tomorrow." The only drawback I'm having is that I'm transitioning from Canon DSLRs to Nikon, and I feel the need to learn the Nikon camera technology as deeply as I knew the Canon. Which is why the question is "Should I learn on the Nikon D7000 or the D800". That does not equal "complete and total idiot to the digital camera world".
Click to expand...


You are either purposely misunderstanding and twisting the points that tyler is trying to get across , OR...

You are emotionally and socially retarded. 

You already have a body that will suit your needs AND wants. What you SHOULD do is buy better glass. Instead of blowing $4000 on a body that you don't need at all. You can spend $4000 on things like, better lenses, lighting equipment, tripod/light stands etc etc etc. By the time you actually NEED to upgrade from a D7000, the D800 will be old news. Photographically, the D7000 is the king of the crop (pun intended).  



graecyn said:


> Hi all!
> 
> I recently (about a month ago) got a Nikon D7000 camera. I'm an amateur photographer at best right now, hoping to "go pro" at some point - at the moment, I am just learning all the technicalities of camera operation and practicing practicing practicing. For now - the D7000 camera is great for my needs. However I am wondering one particular thing. I DO plan on buying a pro camera ASAP, to the point where I'm considering selling the D7000 and using that money + my tax refund to purchase the D800 in March when it is released.
> 
> So I guess what I really want to know is - do I bite the bullet, sell the D7000 and buy the pro camera? Or do I hang on to the mid-grade one for a bit while I keep up with my learning and practicing?
> 
> FYI: I photograph mostly people, food, nature and stationary objects.
> 
> Thoughts welcome!



You were not attacked by anyone. You asked a question and expected a different answer than you were given, got defensive, and literally resisted all advice because your mind was already made up.

Don't ask questions that you think you have the answer to already.

Based on your OP, the advice that you should get better glass is pretty much the only right decision.


----------



## Netskimmer

Hi graecyn, I also have a D7000 and love it. I also plan to go full frame some time in the future. Like many have suggested, you probably would do better to build a decent collection of glass before getting an FX body. Its been said time and time again that bodies are and expense and lenses are an investment. Putting some good lenses in front of your D7000 will net far better results than getting a high end body and snagging one lens that isn't crappy. 

As I said, I have the D7000 and I just dropped $3,000 on optics for it. I could have easily waited a little while and dropped $3,000 on the D800 and $600-$1,000 on a decent lens. Nikon's body lineup is in upheaval at the moment between the new bodies being announced and all the production issues they are having in Asia. Very few have even held a D800 or D4, the D400 should be announced any day now, no one knows exactly what the prices of the current bodies will do once the D4, D800, and D400 actually hit store shelves. One thing is certain though, good glass is good glass. It usually takes a long, long time for pro level glass to depreciate and in some cases it actually increases in value over time. Most importantly, no matter what body you have good glass can only help.


----------



## ghache

You said that d7000 is you first nikon camera? I have been shooting with d7000s since they are out and they never disapointed me. its probably more camera than you will ever need. buy some freaking glass, thats what we are telling you, or send me the money because buying a d800 is going to do anything more to your photography.

and on the other side, why would you ask a bunch of people on the interwebz how to spend your money? its your money. do whatever the hell you want with it.


----------



## graecyn

Ballistics said:


> graecyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> o hey tyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is what I was talking about... You don't know what you're getting yourself into.
> 
> It's a different beast to shoot. It has MUCH MORE resolution, so camera shake, and crappy glass will make itself known very quickly... Especially if you're looking to crop your images.
> 
> There's a reason that Nikon introduced a PDF full of literature about how to use the D800 purely because of the fact that the sensor is of such a high resolution.
> 
> If you don't know how to use a camera, hold a camera, and have good lenses, the D800 will work against you. That's what I've been trying to tell you this entire thread. I've been trying to HELP you not HURT you.
> 
> http://www.nikonusa.com/en_US/o/Y6wrkA9OU_z04IreazIXl_22UII/PDF/D800_TechnicalGuide_En.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *sighs*
> 
> I give up. I don't know how many times I have to explain that I'm not new to Digital SLR cameras. I simply consider myself an amateur photographer. That doesn't mean that I haven't been using DSLRs for years now. It's not like I woke up yesterday and said "Hey - I think I'll buy a D800 tomorrow." The only drawback I'm having is that I'm transitioning from Canon DSLRs to Nikon, and I feel the need to learn the Nikon camera technology as deeply as I knew the Canon. Which is why the question is "Should I learn on the Nikon D7000 or the D800". That does not equal "complete and total idiot to the digital camera world".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are either purposely misunderstanding and twisting the points that tyler is trying to get across , OR...
> *
> You are emotionally and socially retarded. *
> 
> You already have a body that will suit your needs AND wants. What you SHOULD do is buy better glass. Instead of blowing $4000 on a body that you don't need at all. You can spend $4000 on things like, better lenses, lighting equipment, tripod/light stands etc etc etc. By the time you actually NEED to upgrade from a D7000, the D800 will be old news. Photographically, the D7000 is the king of the crop (pun intended).
> 
> 
> 
> graecyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi all!
> 
> I recently (about a month ago) got a Nikon D7000 camera. I'm an amateur photographer at best right now, hoping to "go pro" at some point - at the moment, I am just learning all the technicalities of camera operation and practicing practicing practicing. For now - the D7000 camera is great for my needs. However I am wondering one particular thing. I DO plan on buying a pro camera ASAP, to the point where I'm considering selling the D7000 and using that money + my tax refund to purchase the D800 in March when it is released.
> 
> So I guess what I really want to know is - do I bite the bullet, sell the D7000 and buy the pro camera? Or do I hang on to the mid-grade one for a bit while I keep up with my learning and practicing?
> 
> FYI: I photograph mostly people, food, nature and stationary objects.
> 
> Thoughts welcome!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You were not attacked by anyone. You asked a question and expected a different answer than you were given, got defensive, and literally resisted all advice because your mind was already made up.
> 
> Don't ask questions that you think you have the answer to already.
> 
> Based on your OP, the advice that you should get better glass is pretty much the only right decision.
Click to expand...


Thank you! The rest of your post (and future posts) are officially irrelevant to me. 
There is no need to insult me, and I refuse to acknowledge or converse with anyone who chooses to do so. Thanks.


----------



## graecyn

Netskimmer said:


> Hi graecyn, I also have a D7000 and love it. I also plan to go full frame some time in the future. Like many have suggested, you probably would do better to build a decent collection of glass before getting an FX body. Its been said time and time again that bodies are and expense and lenses are an investment. Putting some good lenses in front of your D7000 will net far better results than getting a high end body and snagging one lens that isn't crappy.
> 
> As I said, I have the D7000 and I just dropped $3,000 on optics for it. I could have easily waited a little while and dropped $3,000 on the D800 and $600-$1,000 on a decent lens. Nikon's body lineup is in upheaval at the moment between the new bodies being announced and all the production issues they are having in Asia. Very few have even held a D800 or D4, the D400 should be announced any day now, no one knows exactly what the prices of the current bodies will do once the D4, D800, and D400 actually hit store shelves. One thing is certain though, good glass is good glass. It usually takes a long, long time for pro level glass to depreciate and in some cases it actually increases in value over time. Most importantly, no matter what body you have good glass can only help.



Thanks! Good points.  Being that I will have my tax refund before the D800 is released, I will likely be investing in glass before upgrading to anything (I'm kind of an immediate-gratification person, so whichever comes first will ultimately determine what I'll spend the money on, no matter how much I want a new body). So I will take your advice into consideration.


----------



## DorkSterr

I agree with Schwettylens forget the D800/D800E get the D4! And you can replace your D7000 sooner . Nikon D4 + the 18-55mm lens killer combo plus you could always use crop mode in the D4 to multiply your mm for moar MM!!!!


----------



## graecyn

DorkSterr said:


> I agree with Schwettylens forget the D800/D800E get the D4! And you can replace your D7000 sooner . Nikon D4 + the 18-55mm lens killer combo plus you could always use crop mode in the D4 to multiply your mm for moar MM!!!!



Maybe I will buy the D4. Just cuz I can.


----------



## o hey tyler

DorkSterr said:


> I agree with Schwettylens forget the D800/D800E get the D4! And you can replace your D7000 sooner . Nikon D4 + the 18-55mm lens killer combo plus you could always use crop mode in the D4 to multiply your mm for moar MM!!!!



MOAR MM PLOX


----------



## graecyn

Dao said:


> I will buy the glass first.  Those stupid lenses keep getting expensive.  But the body price usually drop with time. So ...
> 
> 
> Buy lenses now and enjoy the amazing image quality.
> Have extra cash in a couple of years.
> Then use the money and buy the full frame body.
> And that will make you really happy.
> Plus you may find that save you some money.



LOL. Alright - I'm going to buy lenses first purely because you got all poetic with it.
PS: Love the fennec.


----------



## Netskimmer

DorkSterr said:


> I agree with Schwettylens forget the D800/D800E get the D4! And you can replace your D7000 sooner . Nikon D4 + the 18-55mm lens killer combo plus you could always use crop mode in the D4 to multiply your mm for moar MM!!!!



Nah, what you want is the D4 and this little gem. 
http://www.amazon.com/Opteka-Definition-Telephoto-Digital-Cameras/dp/B0007SVHNY/ref=sr_1_4?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1329939342&sr=1-4

You'll turn heads, I guarantee it.


----------



## Dao

graecyn said:


> Dao said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will buy the glass first.  Those stupid lenses keep getting expensive.  But the body price usually drop with time. So ...
> 
> 
> Buy lenses now and enjoy the amazing image quality.
> Have extra cash in a couple of years.
> Then use the money and buy the full frame body.
> And that will make you really happy.
> Plus you may find that save you some money.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL. Alright - I'm going to buy lenses first purely because you got all poetic with it.
> PS: Love the fennec.
Click to expand...


You know, that is true that price of the lens keep going up.

This lens Nikon 85mm f/1.4D AF Nikkor Lens for Nikon Digital SLR Cameras cost $979 in Dec 2008 on Amazon and it is $1359 now.
The D700 cost $2999 in Oct 2008 and now it is $2699 in Amazon.

If you buy the lens $979 in 2008 and buy the body now $2699.  The total is $3678
If you buy the D700 $2999 in 2008 and buy the lens now $1359.  The total is $4358  

A $680 price difference.


And between 2008 and now, the image produced from the setup are better because the image that cast on the sensor is better and I know you already know about this.

However, if you are planning to get the camera first and then lens in a short time later.  It may not matter too much.  But still, lens price usually goes up while body price usually go down with time.


----------



## gsgary

graecyn said:


> It's not that it's a limitation. It's more that I'm lazy and don't want to get used to one camera (the mid-grade d7000) knowing that I will inevitably buy a pro-grade one in the future.



It will be years before you will be able to use a D800 to it's full potential so it is a waste of money, wait until you know what you are doing


----------



## graecyn

Dao said:


> graecyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dao said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will buy the glass first.  Those stupid lenses keep getting expensive.  But the body price usually drop with time. So ...
> 
> 
> Buy lenses now and enjoy the amazing image quality.
> Have extra cash in a couple of years.
> Then use the money and buy the full frame body.
> And that will make you really happy.
> Plus you may find that save you some money.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL. Alright - I'm going to buy lenses first purely because you got all poetic with it.
> PS: Love the fennec.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know, that is true that price of the lens keep going up.
> 
> This lens Nikon 85mm f/1.4D AF Nikkor Lens for Nikon Digital SLR Cameras cost $979 in Dec 2008 on Amazon and it is $1359 now.
> The D700 cost $2999 in Oct 2008 and now it is $2699 in Amazon.
> 
> If you buy the lens $979 in 2008 and buy the body now $2699.  The total is $3678
> If you buy the D700 $2999 in 2008 and buy the lens now $1359.  The total is $4358
> 
> A $680 price difference.
> 
> 
> And between 2008 and now, the image produced from the setup are better because the image that cast on the sensor is better and I know you already know about this.
> 
> However, if you are planning to get the camera first and then lens in a short time later.  It may not matter too much.  But still, lens price usually goes up while body price usually go down with time.
Click to expand...


Ohh that's good, I like hard comparisons like that. Awesome.
Yeah the body coming later will happen one way or the other just cuz... well I want it. So I'm going to buy it - it's just a matter of when. lol

But the lens prices going up... that's a lovely point to make. I've never thought about that. Thanks for pointing that out! I think you may have single-handedly persuaded me into investing in glass first and leaving a body upgrade for next year's tax return.


----------



## markj

It's hard not to get involve in this. Mach0 and Tyler, you've been too kind as far as I can see. Graecyn, after reading your posts, I'm sickened. 
You sound like a spoiled BRAT! Suggesting the 7000 in the near future will be less than good enough for you. I think we are listening to someone
 immature that is living with a sense of ENTITLEMENT. Some advice little girl, learn how to crawl before you sign up for any marathons.


----------



## graecyn

markj said:


> It's hard not to get involve in this. Mach0 and Tyler, you've been too kind as far as I can see. Graecyn, after reading your posts, I'm sickened.
> You sound like a spoiled BRAT! Suggesting the 7000 in the near future will be less than good enough for you. I think we are listening to someone
> immature that is living with a sense of ENTITLEMENT. Some advice little girl, learn how to crawl before you sign up for any marathons.



Yes, father.


----------



## ghache

graecyn said:


> Dao said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> graecyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL. Alright - I'm going to buy lenses first purely because you got all poetic with it.
> PS: Love the fennec.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know, that is true that price of the lens keep going up.
> 
> This lens Nikon 85mm f/1.4D AF Nikkor Lens for Nikon Digital SLR Cameras cost $979 in Dec 2008 on Amazon and it is $1359 now.
> The D700 cost $2999 in Oct 2008 and now it is $2699 in Amazon.
> 
> If you buy the lens $979 in 2008 and buy the body now $2699. The total is $3678
> If you buy the D700 $2999 in 2008 and buy the lens now $1359. The total is $4358
> 
> A $680 price difference.
> 
> 
> And between 2008 and now, the image produced from the setup are better because the image that cast on the sensor is better and I know you already know about this.
> 
> However, if you are planning to get the camera first and then lens in a short time later. It may not matter too much. But still, lens price usually goes up while body price usually go down with time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ohh that's good, I like hard comparisons like that. Awesome.
> Yeah the body coming later will happen one way or the other just cuz... well I want it. So I'm going to buy it - it's just a matter of when. lol
> 
> But the lens prices going up... that's a lovely point to make. I've never thought about that. Thanks for pointing that out! I think you may have single-handedly persuaded me into investing in glass first and leaving a body upgrade for next year's tax return.
Click to expand...

 do you live on your taxe return or what. you should keep it for food.

sounds like money is not the issue, keep that damn d7000 and get that d800 with the holy trinity, stop with the bull**** lol


----------



## Ballistics

graecyn said:


> Ballistics said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> graecyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> *sighs*
> 
> I give up. I don't know how many times I have to explain that I'm not new to Digital SLR cameras. I simply consider myself an amateur photographer. That doesn't mean that I haven't been using DSLRs for years now. It's not like I woke up yesterday and said "Hey - I think I'll buy a D800 tomorrow." The only drawback I'm having is that I'm transitioning from Canon DSLRs to Nikon, and I feel the need to learn the Nikon camera technology as deeply as I knew the Canon. Which is why the question is "Should I learn on the Nikon D7000 or the D800". That does not equal "complete and total idiot to the digital camera world".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are either purposely misunderstanding and twisting the points that tyler is trying to get across , OR...
> *
> You are emotionally and socially retarded. *
> 
> You already have a body that will suit your needs AND wants. What you SHOULD do is buy better glass. Instead of blowing $4000 on a body that you don't need at all. You can spend $4000 on things like, better lenses, lighting equipment, tripod/light stands etc etc etc. By the time you actually NEED to upgrade from a D7000, the D800 will be old news. Photographically, the D7000 is the king of the crop (pun intended).
> 
> 
> 
> graecyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi all!
> 
> I recently (about a month ago) got a Nikon D7000 camera. I'm an amateur photographer at best right now, hoping to "go pro" at some point - at the moment, I am just learning all the technicalities of camera operation and practicing practicing practicing. For now - the D7000 camera is great for my needs. However I am wondering one particular thing. I DO plan on buying a pro camera ASAP, to the point where I'm considering selling the D7000 and using that money + my tax refund to purchase the D800 in March when it is released.
> 
> So I guess what I really want to know is - do I bite the bullet, sell the D7000 and buy the pro camera? Or do I hang on to the mid-grade one for a bit while I keep up with my learning and practicing?
> 
> FYI: I photograph mostly people, food, nature and stationary objects.
> 
> Thoughts welcome!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You were not attacked by anyone. You asked a question and expected a different answer than you were given, got defensive, and literally resisted all advice because your mind was already made up.
> 
> Don't ask questions that you think you have the answer to already.
> 
> Based on your OP, the advice that you should get better glass is pretty much the only right decision.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you! The rest of your post (and future posts) are officially irrelevant to me.
> There is no need to insult me, and I refuse to acknowledge or converse with anyone who chooses to do so. Thanks.
Click to expand...


Well it's obvious that you can't see the forest for the trees. 

What I said was 



> _You are either purposely misunderstanding and twisting the points that tyler is trying to get across , OR..._
> *You are emotionally and socially retarded**. *



It's obviously that you see what you want. Whether my post, or anyone elses is irrelevant to you... is irrelevant. Being that this question will be asked again, other newcomers can see 2 things.

1 - That you only want to be told what you want to hear and that you think that opposing comments are verbal attacks and are not mature enough to carry out a regular disagreement. 

2 - That buying better glass for the D7000 is more cost effective than buying a D800. You can be a pro with your D7000. You need to figure out WHY you need the D800 before you purchase it, otherwise you are going to get the exact same images out of the D800 that you would the D700. Stay within your means.

Ignore my post, hell ignore every post in my thread for all I care. All that posted before me had the intention of helping, and you threw a fit because people answered your question.


----------



## graecyn

Ballistics said:


> graecyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ballistics said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are either purposely misunderstanding and twisting the points that tyler is trying to get across , OR...
> *
> You are emotionally and socially retarded. *
> 
> You already have a body that will suit your needs AND wants. What you SHOULD do is buy better glass. Instead of blowing $4000 on a body that you don't need at all. You can spend $4000 on things like, better lenses, lighting equipment, tripod/light stands etc etc etc. By the time you actually NEED to upgrade from a D7000, the D800 will be old news. Photographically, the D7000 is the king of the crop (pun intended).
> 
> 
> 
> You were not attacked by anyone. You asked a question and expected a different answer than you were given, got defensive, and literally resisted all advice because your mind was already made up.
> 
> Don't ask questions that you think you have the answer to already.
> 
> Based on your OP, the advice that you should get better glass is pretty much the only right decision.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you! The rest of your post (and future posts) are officially irrelevant to me.
> There is no need to insult me, and I refuse to acknowledge or converse with anyone who chooses to do so. Thanks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well it's obvious that you can't see the forest for the trees.
> 
> What I said was
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _You are either purposely misunderstanding and twisting the points that tyler is trying to get across , OR..._
> *You are emotionally and socially retarded**. *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's obviously that you see what you want. Whether my post, or anyone elses is irrelevant to you... is irrelevant. Being that this question will be asked again, other newcomers can see 2 things.
> 
> 1 - That you only want to be told what you want to hear and that you think that opposing comments are verbal attacks and are not mature enough to carry out a regular disagreement.
> 
> 2 - That buying better glass for the D7000 is more cost effective than buying a D800. You can be a pro with your D7000. You need to figure out WHY you need the D800 before you purchase it, otherwise you are going to get the exact same images out of the D800 that you would the D700. Stay within your means.
> 
> Ignore my post, hell ignore every post in my thread for all I care.* All that posted before me had the intention of helping, and you threw a fit because people answered your question.*
Click to expand...


And the ones that actually did help, I thanked. The few that decided to insult me (such as yourself) will happily be ignored.  Thanks.


----------



## graecyn

Anyway - since my question HAS been answered (thanks Dao ) and I've decided to invest in glass prior to upgrading the body, I'll bid adieu to this post now. Farewell, shutterbugs.


----------



## Trever1t

This thread is full of WIN WIN WIN!!!!

I say buy the D800! YaY!!! good luck to you in every aspect of your life! 


I will ad that I don't understand the purpose of your post here if not to listen and consider EVERY response as valid?


----------



## Ballistics

graecyn said:


> Ballistics said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> graecyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you! The rest of your post (and future posts) are officially irrelevant to me.
> There is no need to insult me, and I refuse to acknowledge or converse with anyone who chooses to do so. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well it's obvious that you can't see the forest for the trees.
> 
> What I said was
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _You are either purposely misunderstanding and twisting the points that tyler is trying to get across , OR..._
> *You are emotionally and socially retarded**. *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's obviously that you see what you want. Whether my post, or anyone elses is irrelevant to you... is irrelevant. Being that this question will be asked again, other newcomers can see 2 things.
> 
> 1 - That you only want to be told what you want to hear and that you think that opposing comments are verbal attacks and are not mature enough to carry out a regular disagreement.
> 
> 2 - That buying better glass for the D7000 is more cost effective than buying a D800. You can be a pro with your D7000. You need to figure out WHY you need the D800 before you purchase it, otherwise you are going to get the exact same images out of the D800 that you would the D700. Stay within your means.
> 
> Ignore my post, hell ignore every post in my thread for all I care.* All that posted before me had the intention of helping, and you threw a fit because people answered your question.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And the ones that actually did help, I thanked. The few that decided to insult me (such as yourself) will happily be ignored.  Thanks.
Click to expand...


Going through the initial exchange, you can clearly see that NO ONE insulted you. The one with the issue is you. You were the one getting all emotional with out being triggered. Bottom line is, everyone told you to stick with your camera and just buy better lenses, and you gave the whole, "I'll do what I want with my money" bit, and then finally decided to take their advice and then say that you will ignore those that insulted you, meanwhile the ones that gave the advice are the ones you claim insulted you.  EVERYONE helped you. You are just too emotional to realize that.


----------



## o hey tyler

graecyn said:
			
		

> Anyway - since my question HAS been answered (thanks Dao ) and I've decided to invest in glass prior to upgrading the body, I'll bid adieu to this post now. Farewell, shutterbugs.



You mean the question I answered in the first post I made? 

Wow, way to come full circle. I guess thats what happens when everyone suggests the same thing... Even if you choose to ignore the majority. Guess I was right after all.


----------



## Bossy

You could also just go back to Canon and get the new 5D Mk3


----------



## greybeard

If you arn't sure then buying a different body right now probably is not a wise choice.  When you really need a pro body, you'll know it.


----------



## GeorgieGirl

I think the idea of a FF is always one that has merit. If the OP has money to spend, then why begrudge her?


----------



## spacefuzz

Tyler thanks for that nikon link, good reading.


----------



## o hey tyler

GeorgieGirl said:
			
		

> I think the idea of a FF is always one that has merit. If the OP has money to spend, then why begrudge her?



Because she'd be throwing a DX kit lens on a $4000 body...


----------



## Trever1t

it's only $2999


----------



## GeorgieGirl

Well even though I am not a clairvoyant and can't guess what her actual plans on lenses were...some people really get excited about being immersed in things and I suspect OP was pretty excited about the options she was considering...I even got caught up in the 800 thing...its pretty exciting stuff...maybe not practical, but exciting nevertheless....


----------



## o hey tyler

Trever1t said:
			
		

> it's only $2999



Oh, my apologies. A 3,000usd body. Thats better than a 4,000usd body with a kit lens on it. 

Surely you are aware of the travesty, Bill... Haha.


----------



## GeorgieGirl

O hey...




GeorgieGirl said:


> Well even though I am not a clairvoyant and can't guess what her actual plans on lenses were...some people really get excited about being immersed in things and I suspect OP was pretty excited about the options she was considering...I even got caught up in the 800 thing...its pretty exciting stuff...maybe not practical, but exciting nevertheless....


----------



## Trever1t

Qouting oneself is surely a sign of something.....


O Hey, yes, of course...

The OP didn't really care to listen to responses, I hope she buys a D800 in spite...and maybe then she's realize it's more than she bargained for  Crap, I'm scared it's more than I can deal with but I'm commited already.


----------



## GeorgieGirl

Trever1t said:


> Qouting oneself is surely a sign of something.....
> 
> 
> O Hey, yes, of course...
> 
> The OP didn't really care to listen to responses, I hope she buys a D800 in spite...and maybe then she's realize it's more than she bargained for  Crap, I'm scared it's more than I can deal with but I'm commited already.



Don't get crazy...it was turn of a page post that had to do with timing and that I didn't want o hey to miss because of the turn of the page...Call it a bump.

This is a toxic site. It really is.


----------



## Trever1t

Crazy? lol, I was making fun...jeesh, a lot of very sensitive people on the forums is all


----------



## spacefuzz

Trever1t said:
			
		

> Qouting oneself is surely a sign of something.....
> 
> O Hey, yes, of course...
> 
> The OP didn't really care to listen to responses, I hope she buys a D800 in spite...and maybe then she's realize it's more than she bargained for  Crap, I'm scared it's more than I can deal with but I'm commited already.



I agree, I'm a bit scared but committed.


----------



## GeorgieGirl

Trever1t said:


> Crazy? lol, I was making fun...jeesh, a lot of very sensitive people on the forums is all




Oh sure...lack of interpersonal skills = others with thin skin...


----------



## mjhoward

graecyn said:


> I haven't  necessarily made up my mind just yet. I AM leaning more towards a D800  though, purely to get the purchase of a pro-grade camera out of the way.  Because ultimately that's what I want.



Then you better go back to the drawing board and research the D4, D3X, and the D3S because they are the only "Professional" level cameras in Nikon's current line-up. The D800 is not 'Professional' level... gonna have to add another 2-3k for that


----------



## Nikon_Josh

Why is anyone bothering answering this person? She Opens a thread and then tells people she has decided on buying a D800 already and NO ONE can talk her out of it! And to make it funnier, supposedly she is an amateur who wants a PRO body just to get it out of her system! :lmao:

Go and waste your time buying camera gear and not learning to take decent photographs! Don't bore everyone else with this JOKE of a thread.


----------



## GeorgieGirl

OMG...does NIKON restrict buyers... Or is it just here on TPF??? Talk about a joke....


----------



## Nikon_Josh

GeorgieGirl said:


> OMG...does NIKON restrict buyers... Or is it just here on TPF??? Talk about a joke....



No Nikon does not restrict buyers, but using a camera as good as a Nikon DSLR will be restrictive to the OP who I can't imagine even knows how to take the camera off auto mode.


----------



## GeorgieGirl

Nikon_Josh said:


> GeorgieGirl said:
> 
> 
> 
> OMG...does NIKON restrict buyers... Or is it just here on TPF??? Talk about a joke....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No Nikon does not restrict buyers, but using a camera as good as a Nikon DSLR will be restrictive to the OP who I can't imagine even knows how to take the camera off auto mode.
Click to expand...


Then why does a Nikon have auto mode?


----------



## Bossy

I don't really care what she buys, but her attitude certainly sucked.


----------



## Nikon_Josh

Ballistics said:


> You are either purposely misunderstanding and twisting the points that tyler is trying to get across , OR...
> 
> *You are emotionally and socially retarded. *
> 
> You were not attacked by anyone. You asked a question and expected a different answer than you were given, got defensive, and literally resisted all advice because your mind was already made up.
> 
> Don't ask questions that you think you have the answer to already.



Ballistics get's it right again!! :thumbup:


----------



## Derrel

Wow...the OP is sooooooo lucky this isn't the ancient, biblical times...or the village elders here might well have stoned her to death for her headstrong behavior and her rejection of wiser, male-centered authority...man...this thread was an eye-opener...and not in a good way...


----------



## mjhoward

graecyn said:


> I'm an amateur photographer at best right now ... I am just learning all the technicalities of camera operation ... the D7000 camera is great for my needs.
> 
> ...do I bite the bullet, sell the D7000 and buy the pro camera? Or do I hang on to the mid-grade one for a bit while I keep up with my learning and practicing?
> 
> Thoughts welcome!


 


Derrel said:


> Wow...the OP is sooooooo lucky this isn't the ancient, biblical times...or the village elders here might well have stoned her to death for her headstrong behavior and her rejection of wiser, male-centered authority...man...this thread was an eye-opener...and not in a good way...



Well, she did proclaim to be an amateur at best and asked for opinions.  When everyone responded with their _thoughts_ (as welcomed) she basically told everyone, quite belligerently, that she didn't care about any reasoning in keeping her current body and spending that money in other areas. She went on further to say she WILL buy a 'pro' level camera and that basically anyone that responded wasted their time.  This, keep in mind, is coming from someone that has already said that her current body is great for her needs and is still learning how to use the camera and how it operates.


----------



## SCraig

Hell, I hope she buys a D4 and a D800 both.  Within a week she'll be upset because her photos look like crap and want to sell them AND that D7000 for a dime on the dollar and go back to the P&S that makes her look good!

Seriously, it always amazes me that people feel that if they can throw enough monely at something it will make them an instant professional without actually having to learn anything.  Still hanging around out there kiddo?  Prove me wrong and show us some of what you have shot that you feel has professional qualities.  If I'm wrong I'll be the first to admit it.


----------



## GeorgieGirl

OMG....you guys are just green with envy that someone other than you has the cashish to just go and do what they want....ANYONE can grow into a new body. ANYONE...but no one has to either....You make up a set of 'rules' like they are gospel or something...you still can't support her and help her enjoy her potential purchase. Its not that you won't..its that you can't....you don't have that generousity in you to be able to.

You are Doom and Gloom....

Thankfully...I own a Canon and don't need your toxic input.


----------



## Trever1t




----------



## djacobox372

graecyn said:


> I'm not really worried about having the best lenses right off the bat, or even "using the camera effectively" right away. I can buy new glass in time. I'm more interested in knowing if diving right in to having a pro DSLR is a better idea than hanging on to a mid-grade one.



I think you have things backwards, lenses are better long-term value, so you're better off investing the bulk of your budget into lenses, you can always "buy new camera bodies in time."

A pro lens 10 years old is still fantastic, and can still be used in a professional setting; often indistinguishably from the newest version--the same isn't true for a pro DSLR from 10 years ago.

This is strongly indicated in price/depreciation:

2001 nikon d1h original MSRP = $5000; 2012 used value = $185
1999 80-200mm f2.8 AF-S original MSRP = $1500; 2012 used value $950

So basically over 11 years the camera body depreciated 2700%! whereas over 13 years the lens has only depreciated 30%.


----------



## graecyn

mjhoward said:


> graecyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm an amateur photographer at best right now ... I am just learning all the technicalities of camera operation ... the D7000 camera is great for my needs.
> 
> ...do I bite the bullet, sell the D7000 and buy the pro camera? Or do I hang on to the mid-grade one for a bit while I keep up with my learning and practicing?
> 
> Thoughts welcome!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow...the OP is sooooooo lucky this isn't the ancient, biblical times...or the village elders here might well have stoned her to death for her headstrong behavior and her rejection of wiser, male-centered authority...man...this thread was an eye-opener...and not in a good way...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, she did proclaim to be an amateur at best and asked for opinions.  When everyone responded with their _thoughts_ (as welcomed) she basically told everyone, quite belligerently, that she didn't care about any reasoning in keeping her current body and spending that money in other areas. She went on further to say she WILL buy a 'pro' level camera and that basically anyone that responded wasted their time.  This, keep in mind, is coming from someone that has already said that her current body is great for her needs and is still learning how to use the camera and how it operates.
Click to expand...


Actually -

If you'd re-read my original post, I believe I stated as well, that "I DO plan on buying a pro level camera asap" right in it and therefore, by your logic - anyone that responded wasted their time right from the get-go. Which, to be quite honest, is not my fault. Next time, perhaps some should read original postings more clearly, and then would realize they are not trying to make a decision FOR me, because (obviously) - I had already made the decision. It was just a matter of when it would be carried out.


----------



## graecyn

djacobox372 said:


> graecyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not really worried about having the best lenses right off the bat, or even "using the camera effectively" right away. I can buy new glass in time. I'm more interested in knowing if diving right in to having a pro DSLR is a better idea than hanging on to a mid-grade one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you have things backwards, lenses are better long-term value, so you're better off investing the bulk of your budget into lenses, you can always "buy new camera bodies in time."
> 
> A pro lens 10 years old is still fantastic, and can still be used in a professional setting; often indistinguishably from the newest version--the same isn't true for a pro DSLR from 10 years ago.
> 
> This is strongly indicated in price/depreciation:
> 
> 2001 nikon d1h original MSRP = $5000; 2012 used value = $185
> 1999 80-200mm f2.8 AF-S original MSRP = $1500; 2012 used value $950
> 
> So basically over 11 years the camera body depreciated 2700%! whereas over 13 years the lens has only depreciated 30%.
Click to expand...


Yes, thank you! My reasoning for going with glass over body now is based on this exact reason, pointed about by Dao a few pages back. Thank you for restating it! It's a good reason.


----------



## graecyn

SCraig said:


> Hell, I hope she buys a D4 and a D800 both.  Within a week she'll be upset because her photos look like crap and want to sell them AND that D7000 for a dime on the dollar and go back to the P&S that makes her look good!
> 
> Seriously, it always amazes me that people feel that if they can throw enough monely at something it will make them an instant professional without actually having to learn anything.  Still hanging around out there kiddo?  Prove me wrong and show us some of what you have shot that you feel has professional qualities.  If I'm wrong I'll be the first to admit it.



Considering you proclaim yourself to be an amateur yourself, I feel no need to prove anything to you.


----------



## SCraig

graecyn said:


> Considering you proclaim yourself to be an amateur yourself, I feel no need to prove anything to you.


A highly experienced amateur, please!


----------



## Bossy

GeorgieGirl said:


> OMG....you guys are just green with envy that someone other than you has the cashish to just go and do what they want....ANYONE can grow into a new body. ANYONE...but no one has to either....You make up a set of 'rules' like they are gospel or something...you still can't support her and help her enjoy her potential purchase. Its not that you won't..its that you can't....you don't have that generousity in you to be able to.
> 
> You are Doom and Gloom....
> 
> Thankfully...I own a Canon and don't need your toxic input.



Sorry to ask Georgie, is this serious or sarcasm?


----------



## Nikon_Josh

graecyn said:


> SCraig said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hell, I hope she buys a D4 and a D800 both.  Within a week she'll be upset because her photos look like crap and want to sell them AND that D7000 for a dime on the dollar and go back to the P&S that makes her look good!
> 
> Seriously, it always amazes me that people feel that if they can throw enough monely at something it will make them an instant professional without actually having to learn anything.  Still hanging around out there kiddo?  Prove me wrong and show us some of what you have shot that you feel has professional qualities.  If I'm wrong I'll be the first to admit it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Considering you proclaim yourself to be an amateur yourself, I feel no need to prove anything to you.
Click to expand...


Please please post some photos??


----------



## bentcountershaft

Just be sure you invest in FX lenses so when you do make the switch you won't have to replace any of them.


----------



## graecyn

I think the whining going on here with some of you is preposterous. So, I intend to purchase a D800 at some point. I'm fairly certain I said that in my original post. 
What I asked for were thoughts. You don't think I should buy the D800 right away? Great! Tell me WHY. Don't assume that I "don't know how to take the camera off auto mode". I assure you, that is not the case. 
Yes - I already knew lenses are important, but I did not value them higher than the D800. That was obviously an incorrect decision and has been corrected by Dao and *djacobox372 *with their factual statements on lens depreciation versus body depreciation. THAT is an acceptable reason on WHY it should not be done. Opinions are great and all, but I could sit here and listen to all of you tell me why you personally FEEL I shouldn't do something all day long. Giving me factual evidence as to WHY though - that is the advice I am more likely to take.
I am sorry that some of you feel I acted out of line. However - I will not apologize for feeling personally offended at the assumptions that I know nothing about what I'm doing, am an idiot, "have no idea how to take the camera off auto mode", am belligerent and so on. If that's the way you'd like to feel - so be it. It really doesn't matter. But in the end, I'll spend the money I want to spend on what I want to spend it on, and the only two that gave me an acceptable, undeniable, factual reason for buying gear over a body are the two men mentioned above. The others that contributed, thank you (assuming you are not one of the few that have felt the need to insult me).


----------



## GeorgieGirl

Bossy said:


> GeorgieGirl said:
> 
> 
> 
> OMG....you guys are just green with envy that someone other than you has the cashish to just go and do what they want....ANYONE can grow into a new body. ANYONE...but no one has to either....You make up a set of 'rules' like they are gospel or something...you still can't support her and help her enjoy her potential purchase. Its not that you won't..its that you can't....you don't have that generousity in you to be able to.
> 
> You are Doom and Gloom....
> 
> Thankfully...I own a Canon and don't need your toxic input.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry to ask Georgie, is this serious or sarcasm?
Click to expand...


I'm serious...I own a Canon....I don't need help from you guys.....


----------



## Nikon_Josh

graecyn said:


> I think the whining going on here with some of you is preposterous. So, I intend to purchase a D800 at some point. I'm fairly certain I said that in my original post.
> What I asked for were thoughts. You don't think I should buy the D800 right away? Great! Tell me WHY. Don't assume that I "don't know how to take the camera off auto mode". I assure you, that is not the case.
> Yes - I already knew lenses are important, but I did not value them higher than the D800. That was obviously an incorrect decision and has been corrected by Dao and *djacobox372 *with their factual statements on lens depreciation versus body depreciation. THAT is an acceptable reason on WHY it should not be done. Opinions are great and all, but I could sit here and listen to all of you tell me why you personally FEEL I shouldn't do something all day long. Giving me factual reason as to WHY though - that is the advice I am more likely to take.
> I am sorry that some of you feel I acted out of line. However - I will not apologize for feeling personally offended at the assumptions that I know nothing about what I'm doing, am an idiot, "have no idea how to take the camera off auto mode", am belligerent and so on. If that's the way you'd like to feel - so be it. It really doesn't matter. But in the end, I'll spend the money I want to spend on what I want to spend it on, and the only two that gave me an acceptable, undeniable, factual reason for buying gear over a body are the two men mentioned above. The others that contributed, thank you (assuming you are not one of the few that have felt the need to insult me).



GOOD ONE.. now you have gone from being the aggressor to being a Victim? Nice try! Dosen't work..


----------



## mjhoward

graecyn said:


> ...do I bite the bullet, sell the D7000 and buy the pro camera? *Or do I hang on to the mid-grade one for a bit while I keep up with my learning and practicing?*
> 
> Thoughts welcome!






graecyn said:


> Actually -
> 
> If you'd re-read my original post, I believe I stated as well, that "I DO plan on buying a pro level camera asap" right in it and therefore, by your logic - anyone that responded wasted their time right from the get-go. Which, to be quite honest, is not my fault. Next time, perhaps some should read original postings more clearly, and *then would realize they are not trying to make a decision FOR me, because (obviously) - I had already made the decision*. It was just a matter of when it would be carried out.









  are you perhaps bi-polar?


----------



## graecyn

graecyn said:


> *However I am wondering one particular thing. I DO plan on buying a pro camera ASAP, to the point where I'm considering selling the D7000 and using that money + my tax refund to purchase the D800 in March when it is released.*



No. But you can feel free to continue to try and insult me all you like.


----------



## graecyn

Nikon_Josh said:


> graecyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think the whining going on here with some of you is preposterous. So, I intend to purchase a D800 at some point. I'm fairly certain I said that in my original post.
> What I asked for were thoughts. You don't think I should buy the D800 right away? Great! Tell me WHY. Don't assume that I "don't know how to take the camera off auto mode". I assure you, that is not the case.
> Yes - I already knew lenses are important, but I did not value them higher than the D800. That was obviously an incorrect decision and has been corrected by Dao and *djacobox372 *with their factual statements on lens depreciation versus body depreciation. THAT is an acceptable reason on WHY it should not be done. Opinions are great and all, but I could sit here and listen to all of you tell me why you personally FEEL I shouldn't do something all day long. Giving me factual reason as to WHY though - that is the advice I am more likely to take.
> I am sorry that some of you feel I acted out of line. However - I will not apologize for feeling personally offended at the assumptions that I know nothing about what I'm doing, am an idiot, "have no idea how to take the camera off auto mode", am belligerent and so on. If that's the way you'd like to feel - so be it. It really doesn't matter. But in the end, I'll spend the money I want to spend on what I want to spend it on, and the only two that gave me an acceptable, undeniable, factual reason for buying gear over a body are the two men mentioned above. The others that contributed, thank you (assuming you are not one of the few that have felt the need to insult me).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GOOD ONE.. now you have gone from being the aggressor to being a Victim? Nice try! Dosen't work..
Click to expand...


I'm fairly certain there's only one person, in this entire mishmash of people insisting I'm wrong for daring to want a D800, that I was "aggressive" to. And that was purely because I felt he was insulting me.


----------



## graecyn

bentcountershaft said:


> Just be sure you invest in FX lenses so when you do make the switch you won't have to replace any of them.



I will do! Thank you.


----------



## mjhoward

graecyn said:


> Yes - I already knew lenses are important, but I did not value them higher than the D800. That was obviously an incorrect decision and has been corrected by Dao and *djacobox372 *with their *factual statements on lens depreciation versus body depreciation. THAT is an acceptable reason on WHY it should not be done*. Opinions are great and all, but I could sit here and listen to all of you tell me why you personally FEEL I shouldn't do something all day long. Giving me factual reason as to WHY though - that is the advice I am more likely to take.
> I am sorry that some of you feel I acted out of line. However - I will not apologize for feeling personally offended at the assumptions that I know nothing about what I'm doing, am an idiot, "have no idea how to take the camera off auto mode", am belligerent and so on. If that's the way you'd like to feel - so be it. It really doesn't matter. But in the end, I'll spend the money I want to spend on what I want to spend it on, and the only two that gave me an acceptable, undeniable, factual reason for buying gear over a body are the two men mentioned above. The others that contributed, thank you (assuming you are not one of the few that have felt the need to insult me).



You're right.  That is sound advice... if you're a hobbyist trying to minimize losses, but not if you're a professional photographer (or plan to be, as you've said) that needs the proper tools to produce a quality product.  Just sayin'


----------



## Bossy

Can you agree buying a D800 to use with either the kit lens or no lens is idiotic?

Furthermore, if you have the extra funds to get good glass along with the prosumer camera, whats the point of this thread?


----------



## graecyn

Bossy said:


> Can you agree buying a D800 to use with either the kit lens or no lens is idiotic?
> 
> Furthermore, if you have the extra funds to get good glass along with the prosumer camera, whats the point of this thread?



The point of the thread was to determine whether or not I should invest in ALL glass (i.e. 3-5 good lenses) for the D7000, or to trade in the D7000 for the D800 and invest in only 1 or 2 good lenses.

After the above was pointed out to me (glass vs body depreciation), it's clearly a no brainer that glass is the way to go. That is what I wanted to know. And yes - I believe I said somewhere a few pages back that I had no intentions of using a kit lens on a D800. If it weren't the only lens I had at the moment, I'd have tossed it in the junk pile already.


----------



## graecyn

mjhoward said:


> graecyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes - I already knew lenses are important, but I did not value them higher than the D800. That was obviously an incorrect decision and has been corrected by Dao and *djacobox372 *with their *factual statements on lens depreciation versus body depreciation. THAT is an acceptable reason on WHY it should not be done*. Opinions are great and all, but I could sit here and listen to all of you tell me why you personally FEEL I shouldn't do something all day long. Giving me factual reason as to WHY though - that is the advice I am more likely to take.
> I am sorry that some of you feel I acted out of line. However - I will not apologize for feeling personally offended at the assumptions that I know nothing about what I'm doing, am an idiot, "have no idea how to take the camera off auto mode", am belligerent and so on. If that's the way you'd like to feel - so be it. It really doesn't matter. But in the end, I'll spend the money I want to spend on what I want to spend it on, and the only two that gave me an acceptable, undeniable, factual reason for buying gear over a body are the two men mentioned above. The others that contributed, thank you (assuming you are not one of the few that have felt the need to insult me).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're right.  That is sound advice... if you're a hobbyist trying to minimize losses, but not if you're a professional photographer (or plan to be, as you've said) that needs the proper tools to produce a quality product.  Just sayin'
Click to expand...


Don't worry. I am sure I'll still have my eye on a D800 at some point in the future after investing in a few lenses.


----------



## xyphoto

I'd suggest you get D800 or D4 and all the pro lenses. You only live once even it is in your dream.


----------



## mjhoward

graecyn said:


> The point of the thread was to determine whether or not I should invest in ALL glass (i.e. 3-5 good lenses) for the D7000, or to trade in the D7000 for the D800 and invest in only 1 or 2 good lenses.



Really???  You JUST argued with me that everyone should have known from the original post that you had ALREADY made up your mind when you made the original post that you were going to buy the D800... NOW you're saying the original point of the thread was exactly what you argued against me on!  See YOUR response to me Below.




graecyn said:


> Actually -
> 
> *If you'd re-read my original post, I believe I stated as well, that "I DO plan on buying a pro level camera asap"* right in it and therefore, by your logic - anyone that responded wasted their time right from the get-go. Which, to be quite honest, is not my fault. Next time, perhaps some should read original postings more clearly, and then would realize they are not trying to make a decision FOR me, because (obviously) - *I had already made the decision*. It was just a matter of when it would be carried out.


----------



## graecyn

xyphoto said:


> I'd suggest you get D800 or D4 and all the pro lenses. You only live once even it is in your dream.



I'm starting to wonder if being a smart-ass is a NECESSITY for this particular photography forum, or if it just comes naturally to most of you that have decided to respond to this thread unnecessarily. lol


----------



## graecyn

mjhoward said:


> graecyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> The point of the thread was to determine whether or not I should invest in ALL glass (i.e. 3-5 good lenses) for the D7000, or to trade in the D7000 for the D800 and invest in only 1 or 2 good lenses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really???  You JUST argued with me that everyone should have known from the original post that you had ALREADY made up your mind when you made the original post that you were going to buy the D800... NOW you're saying the original point of the thread was exactly what you argued against me on!  See YOUR response to me Below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> graecyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually -
> 
> *If you'd re-read my original post, I believe I stated as well, that "I DO plan on buying a pro level camera asap"* right in it and therefore, by your logic - anyone that responded wasted their time right from the get-go. Which, to be quite honest, is not my fault. Next time, perhaps some should read original postings more clearly, and then would realize they are not trying to make a decision FOR me, because (obviously) - *I had already made the decision*. It was just a matter of when it would be carried out.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


I didn't argue anything. It's still true, and God I've said this at least 5 times now. I WILL BUY a D800 at some point. The only question was WHEN. How are you missing that point? 
The WHEN part being - BEFORE or AFTER investing in the glass.


----------



## graecyn

Just to further clarify, because OBVIOUSLY some folks are just missing the point here -
The BEFORE or AFTER is what I wanted to decide on. Whether or not I'll be buying a D800 - yes. That is already decided. I WILL BUY ONE, at some point in the future.
But whether or not to buy one RIGHT AWAY was determined by the body/lens depreciation point made in this thread. THAT is what persuaded me to go with glass over body for now.


----------



## graecyn

And anyway! At this point - I have to go to bed. It is far too late for anymore of this nonsense.
Thank you to the ones that helped me change my mind of buying the D800 right away and investing in glass instead with your sound and reasonable advice (because damn do I want that camera - but I can wait). You two are exactly who I needed to hear. Diamonds in the rough, I tell you. To the rest of you that will undoubtedly continue to insist that I'm wrong somehow and insult me - have fun!
Goodnight everyone.


----------



## o hey tyler

Whichever way you try to spin your initial post, it is still extremely apparent that this thread was useless and you disregarded information from people that know what they're talking about. 

This isn't the O'Reilly factor. This is actually a "no-spin" zone.


----------



## Bossy

graecyn said:


> Bossy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you agree buying a D800 to use with either the kit lens or no lens is idiotic?
> 
> Furthermore, if you have the extra funds to get good glass along with the prosumer camera, whats the point of this thread?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The point of the thread was to determine whether or not I should invest in ALL glass *(i.e. 3-5 good lenses) for the D7000, or to trade in the D7000 for the D800 and invest in only 1 or 2 good lenses.
Click to expand...


Ah see I didn't get that at all. Probably because you don't mention buying lenses at all in the OP. 

I mean, you're kinda lacking some pertinent information. How much do you want to spend? What lenses are you looking at in comparison? 

You can't get mad at people for writing replies based off what you give them, which would be that you want to spend your money on an upgrade, and you only own one lens. 

Btw, the kit lens (the 18-105mm, right) isn't a junk lens. Its not a top shelf pro lens, but its definitely fully functional, and sharp.


----------



## AnnMo

I just bought a D7000 and I am in love. I shoot weddings for a living and this camera paired with my Nikkor 70-200 works amazing. I recommend this camera for speed, where as for portraits and slower type shoots the 800 would be nice. If you arent big on changing alot of configurations, or if you dont understand alot of photography terms then I would pick the 7000 because it is easier to understand.


----------



## xyphoto

graecyn said:
			
		

> I'm starting to wonder if being a smart-ass is a NECESSITY for this particular photography forum, or if it just comes naturally to most of you that have decided to respond to this thread unnecessarily. lol



Correct. We are unlike some dumb ass like you.


----------



## djacobox372

graecyn said:
			
		

> Yes, thank you! My reasoning for going with glass over body now is based on this exact reason, pointed about by Dao a few pages back. Thank you for restating it! It's a good reason.



Sorry, I was to lazy to read the entire thread.


----------



## LightSpeed

graecyn said:


> o hey tyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> graecyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously, I wouldn't be keeping (or using) the kit lens on a pro camera body. Hell, I don't even want to keep or use the kit lens on the D7000. My #1 priority is getting at least 1 quality lens. I might be amatuer, but I'm not stupid. *I don't know why you'd assume I'd even attempt using this lens on a D700 or D800*. lol
> 
> Anyway - thanks. I'm thinking I will buy the D800 regardless and get a few, better lenses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't know why I'd assume you'd use your kit lens on the D800?
> 
> Because you didn't mention BUYING any lenses to go with the D800. That's why.
> 
> You really need to get your priorities straight. You'd be making a poor decision IMHO. A "pro body" does not a "pro photographer" make.
> 
> This is a common misconception among amateurs. They often think, "Why should I stick with my current entry level or mid grade body, when I could buy a PRO BODY OMGLOL and be a PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHER!?!" I'm *not* saying that's you, believe me. But we do get a good flow of threads with that same mindset coming through the forum. They don't take into account the lenses that they want to use, or even know what lenses TO use.
> 
> Again, I will reiterate. Unless you're going to be buying some SERIOUS glass with your D800, I'd just stick to buying serious glass rather than a new body. The D800 has a 36mp Full Frame sensor. Photographic technique and high end lenses are both paramount when using that camera. It will most likely make your photos look worse than on the D7k IMHO.
> 
> What you're failing to understand is that the guts of the camera are the same. You don't need to "learn photography" on a pro camera body. It's going to expose exactly the same way as on your D7k. The shutter speed and aperture wheels are in the same spot. Cosmetically the cameras are pretty similar. You're not gaining a whole lot by moving to a full frame body, especially if you don't even know WHAT you're gaining.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks, both for the input and the insults.  I'll still be buying the D800. Have a nice day.
Click to expand...


LMAO!!!!!
SLam dunk!

If you can afford it, BUY THE DAMN THING.
Then you can grow with it and worry about the rest later.

You must realize that you are conversing with an elite group of people who are ready and willing to tell you what you should spend your money on.
lol
You're not supposed to get what you want. You're supposed to get what is advised. lmao
Of course if you don't follow suit, well then, you're just not with the program.
Keep in mind, you did ask for this advice.

Personally, I have a D4 on preorder. I've been told that I can change this to the D800E if I want.
I'm seriously considering it for a number of reasons.

End of the day. Get what you want.


----------



## LightSpeed

graecyn said:


> SCraig said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hell, I hope she buys a D4 and a D800 both.  Within a week she'll be upset because her photos look like crap and want to sell them AND that D7000 for a dime on the dollar and go back to the P&S that makes her look good!
> 
> Seriously, it always amazes me that people feel that if they can throw enough monely at something it will make them an instant professional without actually having to learn anything.  Still hanging around out there kiddo?  Prove me wrong and show us some of what you have shot that you feel has professional qualities.  If I'm wrong I'll be the first to admit it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Considering you proclaim yourself to be an amateur yourself, I feel no need to prove anything to you.
Click to expand...


He's ahh, pretty good with a camera.
Good bit of experience. Dude knows what he's talking about.
I'd still get the D800E


----------



## LightSpeed

GeorgieGirl said:


> OMG....you guys are just green with envy that someone other than you has the cashish to just go and do what they want....ANYONE can grow into a new body. ANYONE...but no one has to either....You make up a set of 'rules' like they are gospel or something...you still can't support her and help her enjoy her potential purchase. Its not that you won't..its that you can't....you don't have that generousity in you to be able to.
> 
> You are Doom and Gloom....
> 
> Thankfully...I own a Canon and don't need your toxic input.



*THIS ^^*



Bossy said:


> Sorry to ask Georgie, is this serious or sarcasm?



Careful Georgie............you're loyalty is coming under heavy scrutiny!
LMAO


----------



## Josh220

Bleh... I don't know why I read these threads. I wish they came with a "want my life back" option at the end. 




GeorgieGirl said:


> OMG....you guys are just green with envy that someone other than you has the cashish to just go and do what they want....ANYONE can grow into a new body. ANYONE...but no one has to either....You make up a set of 'rules' like they are gospel or something...you still can't support her and help her enjoy her potential purchase. Its not that you won't..its that you can't....you don't have that generousity in you to be able to.
> 
> You are Doom and Gloom....
> 
> Thankfully...I own a Canon and don't need your toxic input.



I don't think this is true, I think it is misconstrued by those who wish to do so. I could go out and buy many D800's and D4's (so no jealously there), yet I still agree with the consensus of the majority thus far. It is also not entirely correct to state that she has, "the cashish to just go and do what they want," since she has to sell the gear she has yet to grow into and then add that to her tax return to afford something she is even further from growing into. There is nothing wrong with buying above your ability and then growing into it, but we are talking about a body designed to encroach on the medium format market, aimed largely towards studio photography. People with the proper skill can make this work in other applications, but do you really expect me to believe this is a good option for someone who doesn't know how to use their entry level gear?

To the OP, if you want to buy something reasonably over your head, I would pick up a D700. The D800 is just far too optimistic IMO. It would be painfully ironic to know that your images would probably degrade after spending $3k because you are not adequately equipped in the gear or experience department.

Now, where's that, "want my life back" button...


----------



## Infinite_Day

I read these posts for entertainment value. In all fairness, a lot of the people who tried to help the OP simply put their opinions very bluntly without attacking her. I immediately thought the same thing that Tyler and others put up upon reading the initial post. I would never drop my D7000 to buy a D800 without first buying a lot of better glass. There's no point. However, if that's what the OP wants to do that's her perogative. The real problem here is that she really just needed to take the time and do the research instead of putting up a post asking for input. I think most people on here will agree that any photographer, regardless of skill, doesn't really need to upgrade to a high-end body if they haven't already come to the realization that the glass sticking off the front of it is much more important and valuable in the long run. That's all that was trying to be imparted and it turned into a full-blown war. Derrel made some of the best points. If you have the money you buy what you want. It's that simple. There's no point in attacking other people or making snide remarks. The mods need to lock this thread.


----------



## Nikon_Josh

LightSpeed said:


> graecyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> o hey tyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> You don't know why I'd assume you'd use your kit lens on the D800?
> 
> Because you didn't mention BUYING any lenses to go with the D800. That's why.
> 
> You really need to get your priorities straight. You'd be making a poor decision IMHO. A "pro body" does not a "pro photographer" make.
> 
> This is a common misconception among amateurs. They often think, "Why should I stick with my current entry level or mid grade body, when I could buy a PRO BODY OMGLOL and be a PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHER!?!" I'm *not* saying that's you, believe me. But we do get a good flow of threads with that same mindset coming through the forum. They don't take into account the lenses that they want to use, or even know what lenses TO use.
> 
> Again, I will reiterate. Unless you're going to be buying some SERIOUS glass with your D800, I'd just stick to buying serious glass rather than a new body. The D800 has a 36mp Full Frame sensor. Photographic technique and high end lenses are both paramount when using that camera. It will most likely make your photos look worse than on the D7k IMHO.
> 
> What you're failing to understand is that the guts of the camera are the same. You don't need to "learn photography" on a pro camera body. It's going to expose exactly the same way as on your D7k. The shutter speed and aperture wheels are in the same spot. Cosmetically the cameras are pretty similar. You're not gaining a whole lot by moving to a full frame body, especially if you don't even know WHAT you're gaining.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, both for the input and the insults.  I'll still be buying the D800. Have a nice day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LMAO!!!!!
> SLam dunk!
> 
> If you can afford it, BUY THE DAMN THING.
> Then you can grow with it and worry about the rest later.
> 
> You must realize that you are conversing with an elite group of people who are ready and willing to tell you what you should spend your money on.
> lol
> You're not supposed to get what you want. You're supposed to get what is advised. lmao
> Of course if you don't follow suit, well then, you're just not with the program.
> Keep in mind, you did ask for this advice.
> 
> Personally, I have a D4 on preorder. I've been told that I can change this to the D800E if I want.
> I'm seriously considering it for a number of reasons.
> 
> End of the day. Get what you want.
Click to expand...


Oh ATTENTION ATTENTION ATTENTION!


----------



## LightSpeed

Nikon_Josh said:


> Oh ATTENTION ATTENTION ATTENTION!



Add a bit of logic into the equation........and it's seeking attention?
Totally unbelievable.
Since when is advising someone to do what they want with their money, " attention seeking?"

This entire fiasco looks more like a CONTROL ISSUE,  than an attention seeking issue.


----------



## LightSpeed

Josh220 said:


> Bleh... I don't know why I read these threads. I wish they came with a "want my life back" option at the end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GeorgieGirl said:
> 
> 
> 
> OMG....you guys are just green with envy that someone other than you has the cashish to just go and do what they want....ANYONE can grow into a new body. ANYONE...but no one has to either....You make up a set of 'rules' like they are gospel or something...you still can't support her and help her enjoy her potential purchase. Its not that you won't..its that you can't....you don't have that generousity in you to be able to.
> 
> You are Doom and Gloom....
> 
> Thankfully...I own a Canon and don't need your toxic input.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think this is true, I think it is misconstrued by those who wish to do so. I could go out and buy many D800's and D4's (so no jealously there), yet I still agree with the consensus of the majority thus far. It is also not entirely correct to state that she has, "the cashish to just go and do what they want," since she has to sell the gear she has yet to grow into and then add that to her tax return to afford something she is even further from growing into. There is nothing wrong with buying above your ability and then growing into it, but we are talking about a body designed to encroach on the medium format market, aimed largely towards studio photography. People with the proper skill can make this work in other applications, but do you really expect me to believe this is a good option for someone who doesn't know how to use their entry level gear?
> 
> To the OP, if you want to buy something reasonably over your head, I would pick up a D700. The D800 is just far too optimistic IMO. It would be painfully ironic to know that your images would probably degrade after spending $3k because you are not adequately equipped in the gear or experience department.
> 
> Now, where's that, "want my life back" button...
Click to expand...


I'm sure you want everyone to look at this and tell you how wonderful you are for posting it.

Here's where it falls apart.
Just because someone wants a camera that may be beyond reasonable capability, " What makes you think they can't figure it out?
It's not that hard you know. The camera is going to work by the same principles as any other camera. Time and light. It has always been so.
Yes, the camera may require higher end lenses to bring out the sensors true potential. Is it carved in stone that this cannot be obtained, by someone willing to put forth the effort?

#2 All this mess about how this D800 is geared to studio work. 
What about landscape? Ever think of that? 
What about macro? I mean, 36 million pixels on a close up, that can be cropped and leave you with 30 million ( or whatever) for a larger size print without interpolation.
Why I just bet you anything you want to bet that I can make it work in these two afore mentioned categories.
If I can do it , or you can do it, " What makes you think others can't?

#3, you appear to believe that people can't learn, so it's best for them to stick with what you suggest.
I agree that a better camera doesn't mean better photos, but in this case it DOES equate to better image quality.
Anybody can get lucky. I do it all the time. Why not have the best image quality one can afford, for those times?



Josh220 said:


> Now, where's that, "want my life back" button...


----------



## Josh220

You seem to take pride in your logic, yet you do not read thoroughly... Every single point you made is rendered moot if you had actually read my post. 



LightSpeed said:


> I'm sure you want everyone to look at this and tell you how wonderful you are for posting it.
> 
> Here's where it falls apart.
> Just because someone wants a camera that may be beyond reasonable capability, " What makes you think they can't figure it out?
> It's not that hard you know. The camera is going to work by the same principles as any other camera. Time and light. It has always been so.
> Yes, the camera may require higher end lenses to bring out the sensors true potential. Is it carved in stone that this cannot be obtained, by someone willing to put forth the effort?



Without the proper glass, yes actually. She plans on "eventually" obtaining better glass, thus she will "eventually" see improvement in her images. Nothing wrong with that, but like I said previously, why spend $3k to downgrade your images because you are not adequately prepared? 



LightSpeed said:


> #2 All this mess about how this D800 is geared to studio work.
> What about landscape? Ever think of that?
> What about macro? I mean, 36 million pixels on a close up, that can be cropped and leave you with 30 million ( or whatever) for a larger size print without interpolation.
> Why I just bet you anything you want to bet that I can make it work in these two afore mentioned categories.
> If I can do it , or you can do it, " What makes you think others can't?



Please read again:



Josh220 said:


> There is nothing wrong with buying above your ability and then growing into it, but we are talking about a body designed to encroach on the medium format market, aimed largely towards studio photography. *People with the proper skill can make this work in other applications*, but do you really expect me to believe this is a good option for someone who doesn't know how to use their entry level gear?





LightSpeed said:


> #3, you appear to believe that people can't learn, so it's best for them to stick with what you suggest.



Show me where I stated that people cannot learn? Please refrain from putting words into my mouth as it does not benefit this discussion. 



LightSpeed said:


> I agree that a better camera doesn't mean better photos, but in this case it DOES equate to better image quality.



Actually, it doesn't. It equates to the possibility of better image quality, but the probability is close to nonexistent with a kit lens and a sensor that large, and no understanding of the precision that will be needed with the new design.


----------



## Ballistics

Im always the one to advocate spending more now. This whole blanket statement about jealousy is poppycock. What I addressed was the prima donna notation that people were insulting the OP. She asked for advice and was given advice. It wasn't that she told everyone that she wanted to buy a camera and everyone jumped down her throat. Let's not get things twisted here. She asked for people's opinions, were given opinions, and disapproved. Similar with C&C. If the OP wants to drop 3 or 4k on a body, that's her prerogative, but *if you ask for advice, you are going to get it. *


----------



## Ballistics

LightSpeed said:


> graecyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> o hey tyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> You don't know why I'd assume you'd use your kit lens on the D800?
> 
> Because you didn't mention BUYING any lenses to go with the D800. That's why.
> 
> You really need to get your priorities straight. You'd be making a poor decision IMHO. A "pro body" does not a "pro photographer" make.
> 
> This is a common misconception among amateurs. They often think, "Why should I stick with my current entry level or mid grade body, when I could buy a PRO BODY OMGLOL and be a PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHER!?!" I'm *not* saying that's you, believe me. But we do get a good flow of threads with that same mindset coming through the forum. They don't take into account the lenses that they want to use, or even know what lenses TO use.
> 
> Again, I will reiterate. Unless you're going to be buying some SERIOUS glass with your D800, I'd just stick to buying serious glass rather than a new body. The D800 has a 36mp Full Frame sensor. Photographic technique and high end lenses are both paramount when using that camera. It will most likely make your photos look worse than on the D7k IMHO.
> 
> What you're failing to understand is that the guts of the camera are the same. You don't need to "learn photography" on a pro camera body. It's going to expose exactly the same way as on your D7k. The shutter speed and aperture wheels are in the same spot. Cosmetically the cameras are pretty similar. You're not gaining a whole lot by moving to a full frame body, especially if you don't even know WHAT you're gaining.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, both for the input and the insults.  I'll still be buying the D800. Have a nice day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LMAO!!!!!
> SLam dunk!
> 
> If you can afford it, BUY THE DAMN THING.
> Then you can grow with it and worry about the rest later.
> 
> You must realize that you are conversing with an elite group of people who are ready and willing to tell you what you should spend your money on.
> lol
> You're not supposed to get what you want. You're supposed to get what is advised. lmao
> Of course if you don't follow suit, well then, you're just not with the program.
> Keep in mind, you did ask for this advice.
> 
> Personally, I have a D4 on preorder. I've been told that I can change this to the D800E if I want.
> I'm seriously considering it for a number of reasons.
> 
> End of the day. Get what you want.
Click to expand...


This is the turning point here - 



> So I guess what I really want to know is - do I bite the bullet, sell the D7000 and buy the pro camera? Or do I hang on to the mid-grade one for a bit while I keep up with my learning and practicing?



This was the initial question at hand. The advice following was pretty relevant. Up until my post, no one said anything out of hand or confrontational.


----------



## ghache

AnnMo said:


> I just bought a D7000 and I am in love. I shoot weddings for a living and this camera paired with my Nikkor 70-200 works amazing. I recommend this camera for speed, where as for portraits and slower type shoots the 800 would be nice. If you arent big on changing alot of configurations, or if you dont understand alot of photography terms then I would pick the 7000 because it is easier to understand.




whaaaaaaat are you talking about, you tell me that you use and understand a d7000 and you would have a hard time working with a d700?


----------



## cgipson1

ghache said:


> AnnMo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just bought a D7000 and I am in love. I shoot weddings for a living and this camera paired with my Nikkor 70-200 works amazing. I recommend this camera for speed, where as for portraits and slower type shoots the 800 would be nice. If you arent big on changing alot of configurations, or if you dont understand alot of photography terms then I would pick the 7000 because it is easier to understand.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whaaaaaaat are you talking about, you tell me that you use and understand a d7000 and you would have a hard time working with a d700?
Click to expand...


You should check out her site! She is definitely a "PRO"!   Ann Rogers St.Louis Wedding Photography


----------



## Trever1t

I believe Ann was referring to the D700 in comparison to the D800 which I agree is probably a better move than the D800. 

To the OP I would highly reccommend the D700...not the D800 which is yet to be properly reviewed and is going to take more skill to produce images to it's capability whereas the D700 would be a logical move if you've outgrown your current body or wanted to move into FX. I have a D700 and have pre-ordered a D800 and will use both but if I didn't already have the D700 I would move that direction first.
 Obviusly glass is more important that the body for without it doesn't matter how nice your sensor is.... 


There's no reason to continue on with the BS in this thread. Let's move on.


----------



## GeorgieGirl

Trever1t said:


> I believe Ann was referring to the D700 in comparison to the D800 which I agree is probably a better move than the D800. *CHECK*
> 
> To the OP I would highly reccommend the D700...not the D800 which is yet to be properly reviewed and is going to take more skill to produce images to it's capability whereas the D700 would be a logical move if you've outgrown your current body or wanted to move into FX. I have a D700 and have pre-ordered a D800 and will use both but if I didn't already have the D700 I would move that direction first.
> Obviusly glass is more important that the body for without it doesn't matter how nice your sensor is.... _*AGREE*_
> 
> 
> *There's no reason to continue on with the BS in this thread. Let's move on.*


*
AGREE


*


----------



## LightSpeed

Josh220 said:


> You seem to take pride in your logic, yet you do not read thoroughly... Every single point you made is rendered moot if you had actually read my post.
> 
> 
> 
> LightSpeed said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure you want everyone to look at this and tell you how wonderful you are for posting it.
> 
> Here's where it falls apart.
> Just because someone wants a camera that may be beyond reasonable capability, " What makes you think they can't figure it out?
> It's not that hard you know. The camera is going to work by the same principles as any other camera. Time and light. It has always been so.
> Yes, the camera may require higher end lenses to bring out the sensors true potential. Is it carved in stone that this cannot be obtained, by someone willing to put forth the effort?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Without the proper glass, yes actually. She plans on "eventually" obtaining better glass, thus she will "eventually" see improvement in her images. Nothing wrong with that, but like I said previously, why spend $3k to downgrade your images because you are not adequately prepared?
> 
> 
> 
> LightSpeed said:
> 
> 
> 
> #2 All this mess about how this D800 is geared to studio work.
> What about landscape? Ever think of that?
> What about macro? I mean, 36 million pixels on a close up, that can be cropped and leave you with 30 million ( or whatever) for a larger size print without interpolation.
> Why I just bet you anything you want to bet that I can make it work in these two afore mentioned categories.
> If I can do it , or you can do it, " What makes you think others can't?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please read again:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LightSpeed said:
> 
> 
> 
> #3, you appear to believe that people can't learn, so it's best for them to stick with what you suggest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Show me where I stated that people cannot learn? Please refrain from putting words into my mouth as it does not benefit this discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> LightSpeed said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree that a better camera doesn't mean better photos, but in this case it DOES equate to better image quality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, it doesn't. It equates to the possibility of better image quality, but the probability is close to nonexistent with a kit lens and a sensor that large, and no understanding of the precision that will be needed with the new design.
Click to expand...

This is a joke.
It has to be.
I thought we already covered the part about upgrading lenses? 
I think the point of being precise has been thoroughly covered *in this segment of the " I know everything and what's best for everybody" Show*.
It borders on going right back to suggesting something that you claim not to have suggested. That is, that the OP is nowhere near precise enough to use this camera.
That the OP could never in a million years grow with the camera and become precise with it.
Can you understand that when people spend their money, that they want what they want and not what you want them to have?
Is it that terribly hard to comprehend?
The reason I ask is because that's exactly what it boils down to.

Now I agree that the OP did ask for this advice, which I have also covered previously.
Which is why there is the broad spectrum of suggestions.
The OP has thrown caution to the wind and decided that the D800 is the camera for her.

Much like ballistics, I advocate spending the money ONCE. Rather than having buyers remorse/regret and making comments like , " I should have bought that d800.

As far as image quality from a full frame sensor being nonexistent, when compared to a croppy, I don't think I'll entertain the stupidity of THAT statement any longer.
So lets just get that right out of the way, right now.

And I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings.


----------



## LightSpeed

Trever1t said:


> I believe Ann was referring to the D700 in comparison to the D800 which I agree is probably a better move than the D800.
> 
> To the OP I would highly reccommend the D700...not the D800 which is yet to be properly reviewed and is going to take more skill to produce images to it's capability whereas the D700 would be a logical move if you've outgrown your current body or wanted to move into FX. I have a D700 and have pre-ordered a D800 and will use both but if I didn't already have the D700 I would move that direction first.
> Obviusly glass is more important that the body for without it doesn't matter how nice your sensor is....
> 
> 
> There's no reason to continue on with the BS in this thread. Let's move on.


I wish I had read this before my last post. lol
Day late and a dollar short. Story of my life.


----------



## Josh220

That's fine, everyone is entitled to their opinions. I was merely addressing the fact that you clearly did not read my post, otherwise there wouldn't have been so many redundancies.

I think it's time to admit that we all got trolled.


----------



## LightSpeed

Josh220 said:


> That's fine, everyone is entitled to their opinions. I was merely addressing the fact that you clearly did not read my post, otherwise there wouldn't have been so many redundancies.
> 
> I think it's time to admit that we all got trolled.



lol
No hard feelins


----------



## Mach0

I can imagine the file size when it comes to post processing lol...... You will need some serious RAM. 

Yea I know... It's kinda off topic but popped into my head.


----------



## Josh220

LightSpeed said:


> lol
> No hard feelins



Right back at 'cha. 




Mach0 said:


> I can imagine the file size when it comes to post processing lol...... You will need some serious RAM.
> 
> Yea I know... It's kinda off topic but popped into my head.



Not when you are shooting in cropped mode because you have DX lenses


----------



## LightSpeed

Mach0 said:


> I can imagine the file size when it comes to post processing lol...... You will need some serious RAM.
> 
> Yea I know... It's kinda off topic but popped into my head.



That is true.
But man, memory is cheap.
Hard drives are cheap.
I mean if you're using anything less than a dual core processor with 4 gigs of memory and at least a 500 gig hard drive, you're way behind the times
as computing goes. Messing with cameras that produce large files, you'll have to upgrade sooner or later anyway.


----------



## Mach0

Josh220 said:
			
		

> Right back at 'cha.
> 
> 
> 
> Not when you are shooting in cropped mode because you have DX lenses




It's a sick camera.... Aside from lenses, you'd probably need an upgrade in your processing power. I can imagine opening a raw file and your computer turns to molasses lol.

Lightspeed, I see your logic. If it were me( which it's not) I'd rather have a body with a variety of lenses. It's more productive than spend a lot on a body and only have 1 or 2 lenses. It gives more flexibility you know? I'd rather be out shooting than having a camera sit. Oh well. The OP has made her decision and hopefully it's something that she is content with, regardless of what has been said. After all, it's her money lol. Btw I do mean it without any envy at all.


----------



## Mach0

LightSpeed said:
			
		

> That is true.
> But man, memory is cheap.
> Hard drives are cheap.
> I mean if you're using anything less than a dual core processor with 4 gigs of memory and at least a 500 gig hard drive, you're way behind the times
> as computing goes. Messing with cameras that produce large files, you'll have to upgrade sooner or later anyway.



Haha. Speaking of which, I need to upgrade mine. I've had it for a while but it came with the specs you just posted. Time to hit up Tigerdirect.


----------



## SixShotEspressO

GeorgieGirl said:


> OMG....you guys are just green with envy that someone other than you has the cashish to just go and do what they want....ANYONE can grow into a new body. ANYONE...but no one has to either....You make up a set of 'rules' like they are gospel or something...you still can't support her and help her enjoy her potential purchase. Its not that you won't..its that you can't....you don't have that generousity in you to be able to.
> 
> You are Doom and Gloom....
> 
> Thankfully...I own a Canon and don't need your toxic input.



I think she was a troll, and just wanted to get everyones knuckles up. When asked to provide pix for "eval" she totally ignored the question. She just made the switch from a "semi-pro" level Canon to a try decent Nikon body because "oh I dunno, need to know Nikon" why keep the d7000 as a back up if you already have a superior Canon backup? Not that all that means anything. I think you guys were bamboozled. Reminds me of that "how to be a pro photographer" video.


----------



## GeorgieGirl

I'd not have posted pix either... I think everyone underestimated her. That's what my gut tells me.


----------



## Derrel

This thread has the potential to become the next "the changing state of professional cameras" thread...the one about the Sony A77 as part of the new pro camera field for 2012...

Just wanted to add that and get IN BEFORE LOCK!!!


----------



## SCraig

Derrel said:


> This thread has the potential to become the next "the changing state of professional cameras" thread...the one about the Sony A77 as part of the new pro camera field for 2012...
> 
> Just wanted to add that and get IN BEFORE LOCK!!!


The thing I hate about threads getting locked is that I always think of such neat stuff that needs to be added.  Right after they get locked ;(


----------



## dakkon76

Enjoy your new D800. By the time you figure out how to take a decent picture with it, it will be selling for about $1000 less than when you bought it. Cheers.


----------



## GeorgieGirl

dakkon76 said:
			
		

> Enjoy your new D800. By the time you figure out how to take a decent picture with it, it will be selling for about $1000 less than when you bought it. Cheers.



I don't really think its going to be that complicated... Just my crazy idea on things.


----------



## graecyn

I am amazed that this is even still being discussed. You guys are spe-shul. lol


----------



## APHPHOTO

Its amazing to me the mentality of some people. I hope that when my son gets old enough to drive. He doesnt decide to buy an afficial nascar car for his first car thinking that some day he'll be a race car driver.


----------



## SCraig

graecyn said:


> I am amazed that this is even still being discussed. You guys are spe-shul. lol


You ain't seen nuthin.  I've seen things like this go 30 pages or more before they eventually get locked or everyone gets bored.  Some of them haven't even gotten warmed up yet.


----------



## AnnMo

cgipson1 said:
			
		

> You should check out her site! She is definitely a "PRO"!   Ann Rogers St.Louis Wedding Photography



I dont understand why any photographer such as yourself would make fun of another photographer who earned a degree and is out in the field trying to run her own business and is in her first year running a wedding photography business. I don't see a problem with my photos, even though I have room to grow, many photographers do. So just so you know I don't appreciate your making fun of me and trying to hurt my feelings instead of appreciating my love for photography and wanting to learn as much as I can about it. It pisses me off actually.

Sent from my iPhone using PhotoForum


----------



## graecyn

AnnMo said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You should check out her site! She is definitely a "PRO"!   Ann Rogers St.Louis Wedding Photography
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I dont understand why any photographer such as yourself would make fun of another photographer who earned a degree and is out in the field trying to run her own business and is in her first year running a wedding photography business. I don't see a problem with my photos, even though I have room to grow, many photographers do. So just so you know I don't appreciate your making fun of me and trying to hurt ny feelings instead of appreciating my live for photography and wanting to learn as much as I can about it. It pisses me off actually.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PhotoForum
Click to expand...


Given the superiority complex of MANY people in this forum (apparently), I wouldn't take it too deeply to heart. Congratulations on your photography business! Haters gonna hate.


----------



## AnnMo

graecyn said:
			
		

> Given the superiority complex of MANY people in this forum (apparently), I wouldn't take it too deeply to heart. Congratulations on your photography business! Haters gonna hate.



Thank you graecyn.

 I do take it to heart because it takes a lot of work and time to get better with photography and some people forget how bad their photos probably looked when they first started. I don't care about forum hierarchy  either. It's just plain stupid and rude to put down someone who is trying and making a living to support their family. How low. Im here to learn and share not put people down.


Sent from my iPhone using PhotoForum


----------



## cgipson1

AnnMo said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You should check out her site! She is definitely a "PRO"!   Ann Rogers St.Louis Wedding Photography
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I dont understand why any photographer such as yourself would make fun of another photographer who earned a degree and is out in the field trying to run her own business and is in her first year running a wedding photography business. I don't see a problem with my photos, even though I have room to grow, many photographers do. So just so you know I don't appreciate your making fun of me and trying to hurt my feelings instead of appreciating my love for photography and wanting to learn as much as I can about it. It pisses me off actually.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PhotoForum
Click to expand...


Sorry.. I guess soft focus is part of your style!


----------



## AnnMo

That's ok. I guess relying on flash to do all the work is part of yours!


----------



## cgipson1

AnnMo said:


> That's ok. I guess relying on flash to do all the work is part of yours!



At least I know how to use one!


----------



## o hey tyler

AnnMo said:


> That's ok. I guess relying on flash to do all the work is part of yours!



Just interjecting here... What's wrong with flash?


----------



## AnnMo

After 30 years in the business you should!

A lot of my work on my site was with my old camera and lenses. You can only go so far as your equiptment lets you in most cases.


----------



## AnnMo

o hey tyler said:


> AnnMo said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's ok. I guess relying on flash to do all the work is part of yours!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just interjecting here... What's wrong with flash?
Click to expand...


Nothing is wrong with flash when it looks nice. Sorry.


----------



## cgipson1

AnnMo said:


> After 30 years in the business you should!
> 
> A lot of my work on my site was with my old camera and lenses. You can only go so far as your equiptment lets you in most cases.



Nice! Blame the equipment! What were you doing shooting "pro" with lousy equipment?  What was the equipment... care to list it?

Then maybe you should take the "bad" stuff down.... and put the "good" stuff up! Since the "bad" is not good advertising!


----------



## Derrel

Hey...I wonder which one of you could pee farther??? Ann or Charlie? Two rounds, one standing up, round 2 seated. Quart mason jar for accuracy.

Combo of distance and cc's into the jar. Say tomorrow, after a half rack of beers each???


----------



## graecyn

Seriously?

This is still going on?


----------



## AnnMo

Because regardless of total sharpness, it still showcases some of my work and creative talent.

And if I don't know how to use a flash, offer me tips instead of dogging me! I'm completely open to a critique and fine with someone not liking my work but don't insult my intelligence! That's just evil and you know it.

And when I upload photos to my website it takes away some quality anyways. It happens with alot of sites!


----------



## o hey tyler

AnnMo said:


> o hey tyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AnnMo said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's ok. I guess relying on flash to do all the work is part of yours!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just interjecting here... What's wrong with flash?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nothing is wrong with flash when it looks nice. Sorry.
Click to expand...


No need to apologize, I was just genuinely curious if you had something against it. That's all.


----------



## AnnMo

I'm only against it when it looks "snap shotty" and blown out. I try not to use it if I don't need to, but as I've said in another thread, if I could learn how to master bouncing it I might like it more.


----------



## LightSpeed

AnnMo said:


> After 30 years in the business you should!
> A lot of my work on my site was with my old camera and lenses. You can only go so far as your equiptment lets you in most cases.



ANOTHER REASON TO BUY THE D800!!!!!!!!!!!!
hahahaha

Chalk one up for the Speedster!


----------



## cfusionpm

Threads like this make me wonder why I ever stopped checking this forum!

<3


----------



## Josh220

AnnMo said:


> After 30 years in the business you should!
> A lot of my work on my site was with my old camera and lenses. You can only go so far as your equiptment lets you in most cases.



A) So you showcase work that you know is not your best? 
B) Poor craftsmen(or women) always blame their tools. Not a good excuse to justify poor quality IMO.

You tell people all of this when they are considering you for a job, so as to not mislead them I hope?


----------



## Nikon_Josh

Ballistics said:


> Im always the one to advocate spending more now. This whole blanket statement about jealousy is poppycock. What I addressed was the prima donna notation that people were insulting the OP. She asked for advice and was given advice. It wasn't that she told everyone that she wanted to buy a camera and everyone jumped down her throat. Let's not get things twisted here. She asked for people's opinions, were given opinions, and disapproved. Similar with C&C. If the OP wants to drop 3 or 4k on a body, that's her prerogative, but *if you ask for advice, you are going to get it. *



+1!  :thumbup:


----------



## Nikon_Josh

AnnMo said:


> *After 30 years in the business you should!*
> 
> *A lot of my work on my site was with my old camera and lenses.* *You can only go so far as your equiptment lets you in most cases.*



1) If you are in business now, YOU should be learning how to use flash, not mocking other people and saying that you haven't been in business long enough to learn how to use flash.

2) The statement about equipment is complete BS and you should know this if you are a professional photographer, Bob Krist of the National Geographic Magazine used a D90 as his main camera. Go and ask him if his camera was limiting his ability to take amazing photographs. 

To even make the statement that hints that the reason your photos were not GOOD was because your camera was not 'good enough is ludicrous, the reason photographs are not GOOD is because the photographer fails to understand the concepts of COMPOSITION and LIGHTING. And you did a degree in photography?


----------



## Mach0

Derrel said:
			
		

> Hey...I wonder which one of you could pee farther??? Ann or Charlie? Two rounds, one standing up, round 2 seated. Quart mason jar for accuracy.
> 
> Combo of distance and cc's into the jar. Say tomorrow, after a half rack of beers each???


----------



## Mach0

This thread is still going on?! Lol


----------



## Dao

cfusionpm said:


> Threads like this make me wonder why I ever stopped checking this forum!
> 
> <3



Because in here, you find sports channel, news channel, national geographic type channel, tech channel, art channel and most important ...  the drama channel.    You have to pay big bucks if you subscribe to Sat TV or Cable TV for these.


----------



## cgipson1

I always considered a professional photographer to be one who can capture a good image in any conditions, with any tools needed to make that capture. If someone is unable to use flash.. that severely limits that ability, as they are limited to ambient light. One who limits themselves to only Ambient light (because of a lack of knowledge) is an amateur, not a professional.... and SHOULD NOT be charging for the poor work they put out! We see this with many Facebook / Craigslist wanna be pro's.... (and they blame their crap on their equipment too!)

If a photographer charges for their work.. that automatically makes them a professional (by the definition of professional, and in the eyes of their clients). I should not have to help a PROFESSIONAL with BASIC BEGINNER type questions (unless they are paying me to help them, since it will help them increase their profit!)  I consider basic flash use to still be in the BEGINNER realm! (most so called Natural Light Photographers use only ambient, because they are incompetent! They don't know how to use Flash.. and usually they basically using their nice big DSLR as a Point and Shoot! (And they Want to get PAID for this?  lol! :thumbdown: )

So help yourselves, (Wanna Be) Professionals! Because I won't!


----------



## AnnMo

Well that's your opinion. I see people charging fees who use point and shoots. One of the reasons my prices are in the lower realm is because I don't feel comfortable charging more at this time, but will in the future as I learn more about my new equipment. I'm not out to rip people off. I'm an honest girl. I learned the basics of flash in college, but we never did any bouncing with them. We used strobes in the studio and other lights where we learned to bounce and use white cards, reflectors, etc. I've only had my speed light for about 4 months now. Everyone has to start somewhere! And it takes more than technical stuff to make a good image. You have to have that eye!

It's funny though how people with swollen heads always have mediocre work themselves.


----------



## o hey tyler

I'm about to do a shoot down at a local Donut shop that just re-opened under new ownership. I'm probably going to use between 2-3 flashes indoors... and I'm going to do it for free. 

Not because I don't charge for my work, but because I'm shooting for a non-profit that I help manage.  Call it PRO-BONO and it sounds much better than it really is.


----------



## cgipson1

AnnMo said:


> Well that's your opinion. I see people charging fees who use point and shoots. One of the reasons my prices are in the lower realm is because I don't feel comfortable charging more at this time, but will in the future as I learn more about my new equipment. I'm not out to rip people off. I'm an honest girl. I learned the basics of flash in college, but we never did any bouncing with them. We used strobes in the studio and other lights where we learned to bounce and use white cards, reflectors, etc. I've only had my speed light for about 4 months now. Everyone has to start somewhere! And it takes more than technical stuff to make a good image. You have to have that eye!
> 
> It's funny though how people with swollen heads always have mediocre work themselves.



Yea?  If that is aimed at me, then please point out my Mediocre work...


----------



## GeorgieGirl

o hey tyler said:
			
		

> I'm about to do a shoot down at a local Donut shop that just re-opened under new ownership. I'm probably going to use between 2-3 flashes indoors... and I'm going to do it for free.
> 
> Not because I don't charge for my work, but because I'm shooting for a non-profit that I help manage.  Call it PRO-BONO and it sounds much better than it really is.



You get free donuts out of it at least???


----------



## AnnMo

Well if you want my honest opinion...you are complaining about my shots of people, where as your people shots (and cat shots) are not above average.

You do good with macro and landscapes, and I think if I were a bad landscape and macro shooter then I could take your complaints a lot more seriously since these are the areas you work best at.

Shooting down someones work that you can't conquer yourself isn't cool!



...I'm really willing to end this as I am getting bored with it and I don't know why you want to hurt my feelings. :thumbdown:


----------



## cgipson1

AnnMo said:


> Well if you want my honest opinion...you are complaining about my shots of people, where as your people shots (and cat shots) are not above average.
> 
> You do good with macro and landscapes, and I think if I were a bad landscape and macro shooter then I could take your complaints a lot more seriously since these are the areas you work best at.
> 
> Shooting down someones work that you can't conquer yourself isn't cool!
> 
> 
> 
> ...I'm really willing to end this as I am getting bored with it and I don't know why you want to hurt my feelings. :thumbdown:



Really... are you saying my shots are out of focus? Badly lit? or what?

I could care less about your feelings! But if you are going to CHARGE for your services.. then don't be such a frigging amateur! Your clients deserve better.. even if they don't know any better!


Critique this then... candid goofing around shot... is it Out of Focus? or what....?






Koko Upside Down by CGipson Photography, on Flickr

or maybe this one:


----------



## AnnMo

I'm feel fine charging for my work. Actually, I feel great. You should see some of the "photographers" work in my area who charge the same prices as me. Their quality of work is much lower than mine and I do think it's a rip off. I agree with you to some extent, and I understand those types of soccer moms with cameras calling themselves photographers and charging people for it, but I do not consider myself to be in that category.

And it takes more than just being well lit and focused to make a good shot! You have to capture the moment, capture the emotion, compose it well, be good at natural documentary when you are shooting PEOPLE.

You are just a different type of photographer than me. You care more about technicalities, and I care more about feeling and the "art" side of things...and that's fine. Just accept that there is more than one way to be a photographer! We all have our own talent that may lie within different aspects of photography. You worry more about lighting and focus...I worry more about capturing the moment and putting feeling into my shots.

I'll agree to disagree with your opinion of me.

---------> And as for your critique...I don't have a problem with one, but two just looks like any old flashed out shot and I would have healed out the reflection in the pupils. (Not the catch light.)


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## cgipson1

AnnMo said:


> I'm feel fine charging for my work. Actually, I feel great. You should see some of the "photographers" work in my area who charge the same prices as me. Their quality of work is much lower than mine and I do think it's a rip off. I agree with you to some extent, and I understand those types of soccer moms with cameras calling themselves photographers and charging people for it, but I do not consider myself to be in that category.
> 
> And it takes more than just being well lit and focused to make a good shot! You have to capture the moment, capture the emotion, compose it well, be good at natural documentary when you are shooting PEOPLE.



Whatever... I don't see either art or technical prowess on your site.. so whatever!


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## AnnMo

I see some of both! Especially feeling. That's what I'm going for more than anything. I want people to feel something looking at my work.

Our photography related priorities are different. That's all.

Whatever then!


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## Nikon_Josh

AnnMo said:


> I'm feel fine charging for my work. Actually, I feel great. You should see some of the "photographers" work in my area who charge the same prices as me. Their quality of work is much lower than mine and I do think it's a rip off. I agree with you to some extent, and I understand those types of soccer moms with cameras calling themselves photographers and charging people for it, but I do not consider myself to be in that category.
> 
> And it takes more than just being well lit and focused to make a good shot! You have to capture the moment, capture the emotion, compose it well, be good at natural documentary when you are shooting PEOPLE.
> 
> You are just a different type of photographer than me. You care more about technicalities, and I care more about feeling and the "art" side of things...and that's fine. Just accept that there is more than one way to be a photographer! We all have our own talent that may lie within different aspects of photography. You worry more about lighting and focus...I worry more about capturing the moment and putting feeling into my shots.
> 
> I'll agree to disagree with your opinion of me.
> 
> ---------> And as for your critique...I don't have a problem with one, but two just looks like any old flashed out shot and I would have healed out the reflection in the pupils. (Not the catch light.)



ART?? Where is the art in your work?? They look like point and shoot snaps to me.  That IS not ART! Putting feeling into your shots and capturing the moment as you put it is the sort of stuff a complete Amateur reels off. 

You can't face the fact your an amateur pretending to be a professional and you also seem to be failing to face the fact that Charlie is actually a better photographer than you are. What did you learn at college?? Can you tell us something that you did learn??


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## GeorgieGirl

This is really awful now.... There is no need for this sort of conflict.... I'm getting sad.


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## Trever1t

I agree...right or wrong, no sides taken it's too much. Time for both to quit.


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## o hey tyler

GeorgieGirl said:


> o hey tyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm about to do a shoot down at a local Donut shop that just re-opened under new ownership. I'm probably going to use between 2-3 flashes indoors... and I'm going to do it for free.
> 
> Not because I don't charge for my work, but because I'm shooting for a non-profit that I help manage.  Call it PRO-BONO and it sounds much better than it really is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You get free donuts out of it at least???
Click to expand...


Oh heck yeah I did. But they only had chocolate sugared when I got there. Still, amazing donut. I'm going back tomorrow morning to get a shot of them with full shelves behind them.


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## Infinite_Day

Why wasn't this thread LOCKED two days ago?


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## LightSpeed

Mach0 said:


> This thread is still going on?! Lol



LMAO


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## LightSpeed

cgipson1 said:


> AnnMo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well that's your opinion. I see people charging fees who use point and shoots. One of the reasons my prices are in the lower realm is because I don't feel comfortable charging more at this time, but will in the future as I learn more about my new equipment. I'm not out to rip people off. I'm an honest girl. I learned the basics of flash in college, but we never did any bouncing with them. We used strobes in the studio and other lights where we learned to bounce and use white cards, reflectors, etc. I've only had my speed light for about 4 months now. Everyone has to start somewhere! And it takes more than technical stuff to make a good image. You have to have that eye!
> 
> It's funny though how people with swollen heads always have mediocre work themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yea?  If that is aimed at me, then please point out my Mediocre work...
Click to expand...


Two words.
Leopard hat.


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