# Leica IIIc



## pgriz (Mar 1, 2013)

I have my father's Leica IIIc, which he acquired around 1949-1950 either in Germany or in Belgium.  The leather casing has basically fallen apart, but the camera still has film in it.  He used to take pictures with it up to his death in 2008.  How should I proceed to find out:
1)  if the film is actually still developable,
2)  if the camera still is functional?

I have heard that the shutter curtain does wear out - can it be replaced?  How does the shutter speed mechanism deteriorate?

I've taken an image of it, see below:


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## dxqcanada (Mar 1, 2013)

If the roll was exposed in the 21st century ... the film should still be OK.

We cannot say if the camera if functional ... or how functional it is.
Even if it is not functional, a Leica rangefinder with a lens still is valuable enough to get serviced.

Instruction manual ... if you need to get the film out and test the camera functions.

Leica IIIC instruction manual, user manual, free PDF camera manuals


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## pgriz (Mar 1, 2013)

Thank you for that link to the manual.  The lens is a f/1.5 50mm Sonnar  by CarlZeiss Jena.  The antireflection coating appears mostly intact.  We have a place in Montreal that apparently specializes in Leica cameras, and has a good reputation, but I really don't know if they will know how to verify the status of the camera.  Do you have any links to reliable repair services for a camera of such vintage?


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## dxqcanada (Mar 1, 2013)

Hmm, I think that lens is worth a lot of money ... not sure but I think there are ones on eBay asking $1000+

I am not sure ... you can try to contact Kindermann to see who they recommend.
Kindermann Canada Inc.


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## pgriz (Mar 1, 2013)

Thank you for that link as well.  If the camera is serviceable, I'd like to use it myself.  I shot thousands of rolls of Tri-X, Ektachrome and Kodachome (and still have the negatives and slides), and would probably enjoy doing it with this camera.


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## dxqcanada (Mar 1, 2013)

It is a classic camera with interesting lens (if it is not a fake).
Other more experienced Leica users here would give you a better opinion ... I am a Leica newbie.

Needs a surface cleaning.

Also check this out for the lens: How to avoid Zeiss/ Sonnar fakes


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## tevo (Mar 1, 2013)

I shoot a Leica IIIc and love it, impressive glass you have there too! Leica does lifetime service on all their products, if something doesn't seem to work send it their way. Considering the shutter actuates, just shoot a roll of film testing each speed for accuracy / consistency. Also make sure the rangefinder is calibrated properly by focusing your lens to infinity and looking at an object at least 1/2 mile away. Check to make sure other distances are accurate as well.


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## pgriz (Mar 1, 2013)

Very interesting. It appears my copy of the lens is genuine. 

I wonder if there are adaptors to allow me to fit the lens on my Canon EOS mount? Yes I know it will be manual only, but it may be interesting.

Edit:  There are mounts ranging from basic (about $20) to fully-featured (LEITAX about $100), according to all-knowing Google.

Looks like I will need to visit our local LEICA gurus at Camtec, to unload the film and have them look at the camera.  The film will be of interest to me, and the camera...  well, we'll see.


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## terri (Mar 2, 2013)

You'll have the film processed, right?      Very exciting!    You should have no problem getting that camera in tip top shape, if it only needs a basic CLA, then go for it!


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## BrianV (Mar 2, 2013)

If you post the serial number of the lens, I can look it up in Thiele's book on Zeiss. The camera was made just after the end of World War II, just before the one I've owned for 20+ years, 1946~1947 time frame. The Sonnar lens was probably made at about the same time and is a "Transition lens". There were quite a few of these made into Leica mount as the Zeiss factory was re-established. Some people will claim they are "fake"- I don't believe that. I've taken apart many Sonnars, over 80 of them. On the one you have: does not seem to have "wings" on the aperture ring, and looks closer to the Post-War Carl Zeiss Jena 5cm F1.5.

To add: you can use the lens on a mirrorless camera with an adapter, it will not work on an SLR. The curtains on my Leica are original, and work fine. Unscrew the lens and inspect the curtains. With a Leica Bottom-Loader: you need to cut a longer taper in the 35mm film than what is used these days. You need it to be about 1" longer.

Attached: 5 "transition" lenses made after the war, and two Wartime lenses. The "285" is a late wartime, the "272" is earlier.


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## Rick58 (Mar 2, 2013)

The Leica III, In my opinion, it's THE symbol of photo-journalism.


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## pgriz (Mar 2, 2013)

@ BrianV: the serial no. is 3051892.
  There are no "wings" on the aperture ring.  The focusing point is a small red triangle.  the markings on the apertures show "." not "," for the f/stops.  The distance scale is "m" not "M". The "T" in the front is red.

@ Rick58: Yes, it has this exotic feeling about it - very solid, but elegant at the same time.


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## compur (Mar 2, 2013)

Rick58 said:


> The Leica III, In my opinion, it's THE symbol of photo-journalism.



For me it is the Nikon F or Speed Graphic. :blushing:


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## BrianV (Mar 2, 2013)

pgriz said:


> @ BrianV: the serial no. is 3051892.
> @ Rick58: Yes, it has this exotic feeling about it - very solid, but elegant at the same time.




Your lens is in the same batch of 1500 as my post-war Contax mount 5cm F1.5, made in 1947. Mine is still in Contax mount, yours was custom converted to Leica mount. That explains the aperture ring with "no wings". The post war carl Zeiss Jena 5cm F1.5 is a newer optical formula compared with the pre-war and wartime lenses: the optics have a slightly bigger diameter, less vignetting. The Contax mount post-war lens cannot be used on a Leica via a Contax to Leica mount adapter because the rear optical fixture is bigger than the earlier lens and will jam up on the RF cam follower of the camera. SO: the only ones that will work on a Leica are those that were custom converted like yours. So if it was clean: would fetch $800~$1000. Someone resold one of my converted pre-war lenses for $660 on Getdpi.com the week after buying it from me for $490. I've done about 40 Contax to Leica conversions.

David Douglas Duncan used a Leica IIIc throughout the Korean War. He used Nikkor lenses on it, basically Sonnar formula lenses. Henri Cartier-Besson Used a Leica with a Zeiss Sonnar 5cm F1.5 on it.

Post some pictures taken with it.


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## Rick58 (Mar 2, 2013)

I had a Jena in an Exakta mount for my VXIIa. Very sharp lens.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Mar 2, 2013)

Nice!


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## BrianV (Mar 2, 2013)

These are with the earlier Wartime lens, Kodacolor 400 in the Canon P. An idea of what to expect.


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## Rick58 (Mar 2, 2013)

compur said:


> Rick58 said:
> 
> 
> > The Leica III, In my opinion, it's THE symbol of photo-journalism.
> ...



Journalists liked the Leica for stealth during quiet functions. You don't have the size of the F2 or the "clunk" of the mirror, and the Speed Graphic's never really were known for their stealthiness...

For me, Graphic's bring up visions of police departments and news papers

Many years ago I had an M3. I wish I would have kept it. They truely are classics. Now I just have a cheap Russian knock-off some where in a box. I picked it up an an Trade Show. A moment of boredom I guess.


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## Canuk (Mar 2, 2013)

You could try Setadel Studios : Home Page for a CLA, I believe they are around Toronto. I bought my M6 from them recently and they seem to have a good selection of older Leicas as well. If they don't do the work themselves they would be able to point you in the right direction.


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## BrianV (Mar 2, 2013)

YYeCAMERA

Youxen Ye specializes in Leica, and has done two IIIf's, III, two IIIa, M2, and a Leotax D-IV for me. The D-IV had been in a storage shed for 30 years and was a complete disaster. Looks like new now. I rebuilt the lens on the Leotax, had to let the helical soak for 4 days in 99% Isopropyl alchohol to loosen up. The camera was worse.


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## Rick58 (Mar 2, 2013)

Now look what you made me do... Go to my junk box a take a fuzzy picture of my fake Leica.
I bet it's real gold plating 

View attachment 37674


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## pgriz (Mar 2, 2013)

Well, went to Camtec. They got the film out (was Kodacolor II ASA 80). Person claimed it must have been there at least 15 years maybe 20. Frankly, I don't remember when my Dad last took pictures, so that may be accurate. Told me the shutter mechanism seemed ok, but the lens wasn't in good shape. Specifically, he mentioned that the diaphagm ring was sticking, and the focusing screws were somewhat loose, and the front element seemed to be slightly loose as well. I'll need to have someone else to look at it, either to confirm what this person told me, or tell me something else. His impression was that the looseness in the focusing would make the rangefinder information unreliable. Eh. Need to investigate some more.

Also, after checking the serial number, he told me that this was manufactured in 1946.  I now remember that my father told me that he took the camera as a repayment of a debt, in 1949.  As far as the cost to repair, he expected that the cost to bring the body to proper shape would be $500-600.  He didn't know who could check the lens.


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## BrianV (Mar 2, 2013)

The cost to bring the body into good shape with Youxin Ye is a fraction of that cost, so don't use Camtec. I would not use them for the Sonnar, either.

http://www.yyecamera.com/price_list.html

So Youxin price for a CLA, new shutter curtains, and a new beamsplitter is $210. An extra $40 for a new body cover. That is what he did with my Leotax D-IV. The viewfinder was unusable before he rebuilt it.


Unless the lens wobbles from side-to-side, the focus ring being a little loose has no effect on the RF coupling. The RF cam moves 1:1 with the optics. The front element is held in my the namering.

CLA on a Jupiter-3, and instructions on Sonnar conversions here:

http://aperturepriority.co.nz/50mm-jupiter-3-f1-5-information/

DAG has worked on Sonnars before. 

DAG Camera Parts

I've worked on a few, a couple that had been to Henry Scherer first. If you cannot find someone to look at it, let me know.


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## pgriz (Mar 2, 2013)

BrianV said:


> The cost to bring the body into good shape with Youxin Ye is a fraction of that cost, so don't use Camtec. I would not use them for the Sonnar, either.
> 
> YYeCAMERA Service Price
> 
> ...



Brian, again many thanks.  I'm looking at your links and trying to decide whether it is worth the effort.  I do not plan to sell this camera, but realistically, I do not have much time to work with film.  It still may be worth it for the sentimental value, of getting the camera to "live" again - something I can't do for my Dad, but it can help keep a certain link alive.  I'm going to see if there are local labs that will do the development and either printing or scanning.  I also need to ask my Mom to pull out his photography stuff and see if I can figure out the quality of the images that were coming out of the camera when he used it last.  And I truly appreciate the help you have given - I can only hope that in some other manner I can repay you for the effort you made.


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## MK3Brent (Mar 2, 2013)

Make sure to update this thread when you process the film!


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## BrianV (Mar 2, 2013)

Glad to help- this camera has been in your family for almost 65 years! Would be so cool to see you post a few pictures with it. I've never had a complaint about the quality of a Sonnar or a Leica. Put the two together- magic.

Sonnars fascinate me. I would be glad to take a look at it for you.


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## pgriz (Mar 2, 2013)

Thank you Brian.  I need to ruminate on it a bit.  I'll let you know how the next chapter starts to be written.  But first, I gotta find the appropriate direction.  Oh, and that's a gorgeous image.  But I think that also has something to do with the guy holding the camera.  :hug::


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