# Wanting to pursue a career in Photography



## GlassCurtain (Sep 6, 2012)

Hello. I'm new here. Just a little background...After almost 10 years of dealing with corporate politics bullcrap, my company downsized and let me go. So I figured I should try to pursue a career in something I enjoy. That something is photography.

I've been looking into enrolling in the New York Institute of Photography's Professional course. I've read up on a lot of forums and there are a lot of positive responses regarding the course. Anyone have any personal experiences with NYIP? Or are there better programs out there that are priced reasonably?

Well I suppose I'll post a few of my photo's. Keep in mind I've been shooting with a point and shoot Kodak Z812. No post processing other than the few HDR's I've done. Also, I mostly do night photography. Constructive criticism is definitely welcome!

Here's my flickr: Flickr: Glass Curtain's Photostream

A nitrogen plant. This photo is in the documentary "Symphony of the Soil"






Chicago Skyline





Chicago Harbor





Parking Garage HDR





Church Crosses HDR





Concrete Tunnel HDR





Post Scriptum: Also if I do this I want to get a real camera...a DSLR. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I've heard from a few people that the body isn't that big of a deal it's the type of lenses you have. Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you.


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## MLeeK (Sep 6, 2012)

DO NOT DO NYIP!!! It's total garbage. I have the "texts." If you want them, buy them off ebay. They're cheap. You won't gain a damn thing from them if that is the work you are producing now. 

Here is a post I wrote today... I must have known you were coming: http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...ning-business-building-house.html#post2707594

As for a camera: what is your budget here? Y


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## GlassCurtain (Sep 6, 2012)

Wow Thanks MLeek for you reply and the link to your post. I want to be confident with my DSLR well before I try to make a business model out of it. I had no idea that the NYIP courses were on ebay...it makes sense though. The main thing I wanted to learn about was taking portraits and using photoshop. As you may have noticed I'm not confident with shooting people. I believe I need lessons but I'm not sure from where.

Also, My budget for a DSLR is about $1,000. I hope that's enough to work with. Thanks again!


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## DiskoJoe (Sep 6, 2012)

GlassCurtain said:


> Also, My budget for a DSLR is about $1,000. I hope that's enough to work with. Thanks again!



Not really if you are looking to make this a career. For pro quality stuff a grand wont even buy you one lens. I would say buy what you can afford for now and then practice some before you dive head first into a photography career. 

One question to ask yourself before you make any purchases, Do you have friends that are photographers? If yes, buy what they use and you can borrow their gear.


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## MLeeK (Sep 6, 2012)

GlassCurtain said:


> Wow Thanks MLeek for you reply and the link to your post. I want to be confident with my DSLR well before I try to make a business model out of it. I had no idea that the NYIP courses were on ebay...it makes sense though. The main thing I wanted to learn about was taking portraits and using photoshop. As you may have noticed I'm not confident with shooting people. I believe I need lessons but I'm not sure from where.
> 
> Also, My budget for a DSLR is about $1,000. I hope that's enough to work with. Thanks again!


NYIP won't teach you diddly for photoshop and portraiture posing and techniques. You are far better off with the free materials on the internet. 

Do you have a preference between Canon and Nikon? 
I'd probably look towards the Canon 60D or 7D if you can get your hands on a used one under there. 
Nikon I'd look for a D7000. I haven't looked at pricing lately but I'd think you can find one under there even if it's used.


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## cgipson1 (Sep 6, 2012)

As Mlee mentioned, NYI, and all of the ART institutes are a JOKE.. just wanting to charge outrageous fees and not really teach you anything worthwhile. If you want to go to school, go to a  good college / university and take basic business classes... and any photography classes they may have as a minor. That will get you a lot further than anything else you could do. (we have some good threads on that.. I will try to find them and link to them)

If you are serious about doing professional level work, you need to allocate at least 10k$ toward equipment to start with (IMO.. others will say otherwise) (1 pro body, 1 mid level backup body, and 2 or 3 lenses, and a speedlight).... If you want good gear. If you want to go with entry level stuff... you have to be good enough to make up for that deficiency.

It is not an easy career... and you won't get rich. You will have to bust your A$$ to even make a decent living! Too many frigging amateur wanna be PRO's out there, killing the market by offering low prices.. even if they are delivering, they still hurt the market.


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## MLeeK (Sep 6, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> As Mlee mentioned, NYI, and all of the ART institutes are a JOKE.. just wanting to charge outrageous fees and not really teach you anything worthwhile. If you want to go to school, go to a  good college / university and take basic business classes... and any photography classes they may have as a minor. That will get you a lot further than anything else you could do. (we have some good threads on that.. I will try to find them and link to them)
> 
> If you are serious about doing professional level work, you need to allocate at least 10k$ toward equipment to start with (IMO.. others will say otherwise) (1 pro body, 1 mid level backup body, and 2 or 3 lenses, and a speedlight).... If you want good gear. If you want to go with entry level stuff... you have to be good enough to make up for that deficiency.
> 
> It is not an easy career... and you won't get rich. You will have to bust your A$$ to even make a decent living! Too many frigging amateur wanna be PRO's out there, killing the market by offering low prices.. even if they are delivering, they still hurt the market.


Charlie and I disagree rarely, but here is one place we differ a LITTLE.
I don't have the name brand for all of my lenses. In fact I have only a couple of Canon lenses in my lineup. That doesn't mean I am not shooting with professonal grade gear. I am just doing it with the lesser options for that gear. It's a whole lot better than consumer grade and not nearly as good as the canon brand lenses. I still have about $10K in my equipment. Much of which is needing upgraded now. 
I wish I hadn't started with consumer gear and traded up, but it's what I had at the time. 
I am happy with my gear, but I'd say you need to allot a whole lot more than $10K. Buy right the first time. Even if it takes you longer. I love my gear, but I wish... 

Start with the lens that comes with the camera. Shoot with it. Learn with it. As you go you will find out what YOU like and don't like and what lens you need. 
You will be disappointed in the zoom. You can't get the zoom ability on a DSLR that your point and shoot has for less than THOUSANDS of dollars. So, don't expect you are going to zoom in on anything across the bay.


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## jhodges10 (Sep 6, 2012)

Here's a link to B&H. The D7000, body only, is $996. If you go that route I'd buy FX lenses to go with it in case you decide to buy a FX body in the future.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/735002-REG/Nikon_25468_D7000_DSLR_Camera_Body.html


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## cgipson1 (Sep 6, 2012)

MLeeK said:


> Charlie and I disagree rarely, but here is one place we differ a LITTLE.
> 
> I am happy with my gear,* but I'd say you need to allot a whole lot more than $10K*. Buy right the first time. Even if it takes you longer. I love my gear, but I wish...



hahaha.... I did say  *"TO START WITH"*... and that is figuring in mid range glass... not top end.  Maybe even some inexpensive monolights!


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## cgipson1 (Sep 6, 2012)

jhodges10 said:


> Here's a link to B&H. The D7000, body only, is $996. If you go that route I'd buy FX lenses to go with it in case you decide to buy a FX body in the future.
> 
> Nikon D7000 SLR Digital Camera (Body Only) 25468 B&H Photo Video



And a D700 would not be much more... and much better for what he is suggesting. Plus it would be a great backup body down the road. D7000 is a great body, and it might do to start with, but it may not be the best choice for someone really serious about this.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Sep 6, 2012)

DiskoJoe said:


> If yes, buy what they use and you can borrow their gear.


I wouldn't let friends borrow gear they can't afford to replace.  That's how enemies are made.


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## The_Traveler (Sep 7, 2012)

The OP might do a little reading here about being or getting into the photography business now.
It is a long uphill trek and there is absolutely no golden rainbow at the top.

It is almost the equivalent of deciding to be a pro athlete in some sport - and then learning to play the sport.


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## GlassCurtain (Sep 8, 2012)

Thank you all for the advice. I think the first thing I'll do is ditch the point and shoot and get a decent DSLR. I'm so tired of not being able to set my own focal points.

I think Nikon is the brand to go with. I was looking at used cameras online and I noticed everyone was selling their Cannons mostly 2Ti's. Not many Nikons were for sale. So I figure I'll start looking at the D700 and D7000 new.


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## tirediron (Sep 9, 2012)

GlassCurtain said:


> ...I think Nikon is the brand to go with. I was looking at used cameras online and I noticed everyone was selling their Cannons mostly 2Ti's. Not many Nikons were for sale. So I figure I'll start looking at the D700 and D7000 new.


Do a little more research before you make a decision like that.  If you get into photography in a serious way, even as a hobbyist, it's not hard to accumulate $10-20,000 over a few years, and finding out that there's something about the 'other guy' you like better can be expensive.

Decide on what features are criticial to you (price, fast-focusing, high ISO, etc, etc) and read up on the various bodies.  I like DP Review for factual, unbiased reviews of gear.  Ken Rockwell is hardly unbiased (He's a review for pay guy), but he does post some good info.  Finally go to a real bricks and mortar camera store and talk to a clerk, give him/her your budget and see what suggestions they have.  Pick up and hold the cameras.  Ergonomics are very important, and you might find you can't stand the Nikon control layout.


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## mostlysunny (Sep 9, 2012)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> DiskoJoe said:
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> 
> > If yes, buy what they use and you can borrow their gear.
> ...



Hi Bitter.. I am back!!


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## Bitter Jeweler (Sep 9, 2012)

mostlysunny said:


> Bitter Jeweler said:
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Did you forget your old password? LOL
Welcome back!


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## cgipson1 (Sep 9, 2012)

Finally had time to find some old threads / articles on this topic for the OP to check out if still interested:

Dennis Dunleavy - California Agency Alleges Brooks Institute of Photography "Willfully" Misled Students

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...5-grad-school-after-art-institute-school.html

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/photography-beginners-forum/122245-ny-institute-photography.html

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...000-00-free-700-00-nikon-thoughts-please.html

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/photography-beginners-forum/248288-art-insitute.html

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/general-shop-talk/295791-art-institute.html


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## MLeeK (Sep 9, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> Finally had time to find some old threads / articles on this topic for the OP to check out if still interested:
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/photography-beginners-forum/122245-ny-institute-photography.html


Somewhere in that post the proud photography course is mentioned. I have NO first hand knowledge of it, but I have taught a few people who started with it. They've said that for the price it was pretty darned good! If you are ready to throw away the insane amount for NYIP $145 is nothing!


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## cgipson1 (Sep 9, 2012)

MLeeK said:


> cgipson1 said:
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> > Finally had time to find some old threads / articles on this topic for the OP to check out if still interested:
> ...



My main problem with NYIP is that they are not accredited...  supposed to be good (far better than the Art Institute CRAP), but not accredited and WAY expensive. I'll pass!


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## MLeeK (Sep 9, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> MLeeK said:
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I have the materials. I bought it off ebay thinking it might prove a good resource. It's a JOKE. REALLY crappy and very little that is pertinent to actually shooting. MUCH in the way of filler and useless crap. Most of which is outdated.


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## rexbobcat (Sep 9, 2012)

MLeeK said:


> cgipson1 said:
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I don't want to hassle you or anything, but any chance you could give us a little tidbit of the crap they have? You've piqued my interest since I thought that they were a decent school.


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## MLeeK (Sep 9, 2012)

I'd love to show you... I don't have a scanner, but I might just take a few pics. I gotta dig it out. Give me a few!


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## MLeeK (Sep 9, 2012)

It's all in magazine style booklets. The images in every one of them is circa 1970. 
The wedding photography one is my favorite. It's a total joke. 


spystyle said:


> Here are all 30 lessons, in order, from the course in 2003:
> 
> 1. Eye of the Photographer
> 2. Camera and Lens
> ...



I was looking for the one on using your camera, but I can't find it for some reason. Probably because I've used it as the example somewhere before... ANYWAY... it is NOTHING about exposure and setting it. It's about knowing the anatomy of your camera and what each thing does. 
Here are some crappy cell phone shots of a few. The wedding booklet is my next favorite. It basically tells you that you have a camera and now you know how it works, shoot a wedding!


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## imagemaker46 (Sep 10, 2012)

All I can add is simply, Good Luck.


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## jhodges10 (Sep 10, 2012)

MLeeK said:
			
		

> It's all in magazine style booklets. The images in every one of them is circa 1970.
> The wedding photography one is my favorite. It's a total joke.
> 
> I was looking for the one on using your camera, but I can't find it for some reason. Probably because I've used it as the example somewhere before... ANYWAY... it is NOTHING about exposure and setting it. It's about knowing the anatomy of your camera and what each thing does.
> Here are some crappy cell phone shots of a few. The wedding booklet is my next favorite. It basically tells you that you have a camera and now you know how it works, shoot a wedding!



Good god, I took better shots than that when I was 10 years old on my grandma's old 110 camera. They're passing that off as a photography course now?!


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## 2WheelPhoto (Sep 10, 2012)

jhodges10 said:


> MLeeK said:
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Pics!? Or at least pic of grandma's camera


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## chuasam (Sep 10, 2012)

Professional Photography is depressingly little about taking pictures and horrifyingly full of politics (dealing with local businesses, clients, friends who want free photos) and getting your books done right.


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## MLeeK (Sep 10, 2012)

jhodges10 said:


> MLeeK said:
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Well, as long as you are talking about those cheesy little magazines and not my cell phone shots! LOL!
Yep. It's really bad.


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## jhodges10 (Sep 10, 2012)

MLeeK said:
			
		

> Well, as long as you are talking about those cheesy little magazines and not my cell phone shots! LOL!
> Yep. It's really bad.



No I'm pretty sure your cell phone shots improved the booklet.


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## MLeeK (Sep 11, 2012)

NOTHING can improve that crap.


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