# First Wedding!...I think.



## Austin Greene (Jan 12, 2015)

Well, it's finally happened. I've got my first wedding on the line. Skipping through all the motivations, etc, I'm left with just a couple questions for all of you seasoned wedding pro's. These folks know I've never shot a wedding, just portraits on the regular, and they are ok with that. By the time their ceremony in August rolls around, I should have second-shot on several. I'm not too worried about my ability to perform, more just the logistics. 

1. Going into the consultation meeting, I plan on discussing the engagement shoot, wedding venue/attendance, final price, and having them sign a contract. Is there anything else I should cover here besides determining their aesthetic tastes for different photo styles? I suppose I'll also gather a registry from them of all the wedding's contacts and their phone numbers, so I can contact the venue myself if I need. Only after the consult will I consider it a "done deal." 

2. Do you have any specific tips on the engagement shoot or ceremony shots? Not stylistic tips, but just things that a seasoned pro would realize should be covered in an engagement, that someone else might miss? 

3. The ceremony will be in a large, almost gothic church. I plan on visiting after the contract is signed. The reception will be held in a fairly modern restaurant. I would guess that both are quite dark. Any tips on dealing with venue management? 

4. Any thoughts on how much to pay a second-shooter to cover 3 hours of wedding? I have plenty of people who would do it for free (and do well), but I would like there to be _some_ incentive on their end to produce quality results. 

5. Lastly, while I'll determine specifics with the couple and do my own research, I suspect this might be a Portuguese wedding. At least, for the church portion. Anyone shoot one of these before? Tips? 

Can't believe this is happening!


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## tirediron (Jan 12, 2015)

Austin Greene said:


> 1. Going into the consultation meeting, I plan on discussing the engagement shoot, wedding venue/attendance, final price, and having them sign a contract. Is there anything else I should cover here besides determining their aesthetic tastes for different photo styles? I suppose I'll also gather a registry from them of all the wedding's contacts and their phone numbers, so I can contact the venue myself if I need. Only after the consult will I consider it a "done deal."
> 
> 2. Do you have any specific tips on the engagement shoot or ceremony shots? Not stylistic tips, but just things that a seasoned pro would realize should be covered in an engagement, that someone else might miss? Engagement shoot should be straight-forward.  Just get an idea of the couple's tasts (and by "couple" I mean the bride.  This is all about the bride.  The groom is only there because it's required by law) and what they like.  Plan the shoot, in other words know where you're going to go, in what order, and have alternate locations in case their are issues with the primary.  As for the ceremony, visit the venue as soon as you can and meet with the Deacon/Rector/whomever.  Find out what is allowed as far as photography and where you can go, where you can't, etc.  I had one wedding several years ago where the officiate didn't want ANY photography during the ceremony, and it took some negotiation on my part to come up with a solution that satisfied the church as well as the couple.
> 
> ...


 Make sure you check out the small details... times & locations for formals, ceremony, etc.  Know how long it will take you to get from 'A' to 'B' and leave lots of time.  Know where you're going to park, and have change/money ready if required.  Try and walk through the venues at the time of day you'll be shooting and for the reception ask if they can show you what the lighting will normally be like for such an event.

Good luck!


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## JerryVenz (Jan 12, 2015)

Austin Greene said:


> Well, it's finally happened. I've got my first wedding on the line. Skipping through all the motivations, etc, I'm left with just a couple questions for all of you seasoned wedding pro's. These folks know I've never shot a wedding, just portraits on the regular, and they are ok with that. By the time their ceremony in August rolls around, I should have second-shot on several. I'm not too worried about my ability to perform, more just the logistics.
> 
> 1. Going into the consultation meeting, I plan on discussing the engagement shoot, wedding venue/attendance, final price, and having them sign a contract. Is there anything else I should cover here besides determining their aesthetic tastes for different photo styles? I suppose I'll also gather a registry from them of all the wedding's contacts and their phone numbers, so I can contact the venue myself if I need. Only after the consult will I consider it a "done deal."
> 
> ...



Austin,

Welcome, in advance, to the crucible of wedding photography!  MY wife and I did weddings in your neck of the woods ( our studio was in downtown Saratoga for 14-years--Venz Fine Photography was the name ).
With over 25-years doings weddings--We were one of the few studios in northern California that were Ritz Carlton preferred photographers--we have lots to share!

At the consultation:

Definitely include an Engagement Session AS YOUR GIFT to them for choosing you as their photographer. However, I strongly suggest that you stop there--do not include ANY free prints or digital files from the engagement session.  Many photographers give away the farm trying to one up their competition when building their wedding packages and wind up working at minimum wage at the end of the day.

We found that the engagement session is the MOST PROFITABLE part of the wedding--when you look at cost of goods and income per hour--IF YOU KNOCK THEIR SOCKS OFF WITH THIS SESSION!
Why?  Most of our couples would buy a WALL PRINT--16X20" or larger--from a fun casual portrait session than from the wedding day images.  This is called the UPSELL---you give them something and they BUY something.
It's amazing how many photographers have abandoned this simple idea!

Oh, bye the way, MANY of our best engagement sales were from sessions done at Natural Bridges Beach in Santa Cruz--a fabulous location!

Tell them that you will ATTEND THEIR WEDDING REHEARSAL--not to do photography (unless they want to pay you extra, of course!)  but to meet the on site coordinator and officiant as well as their families. This can pay in brownie-points with the church coordinator just because MOST PHOTOGRAPHERS DON'T DO THIS.
You ask the coordinator  what all the rules are :
--like where you can position your tripod,
--where you can stand for the processional and recessional,
--where the bride is sequestered just before the ceremony,

Just because you're there and show that you respect their church they will be more likely to cut you some slack and maybe be less rigid about the rules.

Then when you ask them to TURN-UP ALL THE LIGHTS AT THE ALTAR to wedding day level--so you can measure them with your light meter across the width of the altar---they will be more likely to comply!

Wedding Day Tips:

WEAR TWO CAMERAS WITH RADICALLY DIFFERENT LENSES.  I like a 70-200 f2.8  and a 17-50 f2.8

HAVE A FLASH ON BOTH CAMERAS.  That gives me a back-up flash if one fails.

NOTE: I NEVER USE DIRECT FLASH ON ANY PERSON!  I DIFUSE IT WITH SOMETHING ( Stofen, Fong, etc.) OR BOUNCE IT--DO SOMETHING TO SOFTEN IT!

DO YOUR BEST TO FIND SOME WINDOW LIGHT FOR THE PRE CEREMONY PORTRAITS OF THE BRIDE--they always love these!

I have MANY more tips.  Let me know if you book-em!

Jerry W. Venz  M.Photog.Cr.CPP


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## Vtec44 (Jan 12, 2015)

Oh hey welcome to the joy of wedding photography!   The first wedding is nerve wrecking and exciting at the same time.  My only tip is to ask the couple to describe the vision of their wedding, then convey that through your pictures.  There are just too many details to type and I have horrible grammar lol


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## Designer (Jan 12, 2015)

You should make a list of the most important shots.  This is YOUR list, no need to share it with the bridal couple.  In making that list, jot down what lens, lighting, etc. will be required.  if it is just one odd shot in a remote location, assign that to your second shooter.  

Speaking of second shooter; you need to pay that person.  Not to make anyone feel better, but to make it perfectly clear that he or she is to take direction from you.  Well worth the day's pay, IMO, so they don't decide to "get creative" and not be where you want them.

If you don't have the equipment needed, rent it.  The cost of rental is a legitimate expense, so do it.

Always carry some extra business cards on you so when someone asks, you just whip one out and hand it over.

No drinking, no eating, short breaks for the toilet, keep your shirt tail tucked in, and anticipate the bridal ceremony so you are ready when they are.  

Arrive early, and don't leave until you receive approval from either the bride or the MOTB.


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## dennybeall (Jan 12, 2015)

I've know a couple of wedding photographers that did have a "shot list" and they had the second shooter keeping track of the shots so they could concentrate on the photographic aspects.
Did you mention getting a percentage up-front to hold the date(s) on your schedule.


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## Austin Greene (Jan 13, 2015)

tirediron said:


> Austin Greene said:
> 
> 
> > 1. Going into the consultation meeting, I plan on discussing the engagement shoot, wedding venue/attendance, final price, and having them sign a contract. Is there anything else I should cover here besides determining their aesthetic tastes for different photo styles? I suppose I'll also gather a registry from them of all the wedding's contacts and their phone numbers, so I can contact the venue myself if I need. Only after the consult will I consider it a "done deal."
> ...






JerryVenz said:


> Austin Greene said:
> 
> 
> > Well, it's finally happened. I've got my first wedding on the line. Skipping through all the motivations, etc, I'm left with just a couple questions for all of you seasoned wedding pro's. These folks know I've never shot a wedding, just portraits on the regular, and they are ok with that. By the time their ceremony in August rolls around, I should have second-shot on several. I'm not too worried about my ability to perform, more just the logistics.
> ...



Thank you so much for all the great information Jerry! I'm taking notes!





Vtec44 said:


> Oh hey welcome to the joy of wedding photography!   The first wedding is nerve wrecking and exciting at the same time.  My only tip is to ask the couple to describe the vision of their wedding, then convey that through your pictures.  There are just too many details to type and I have horrible grammar lol



I can certainly appreciate that! I spoke with them last night over the phone, and they seem like a great couple, and very down to earth. Hopefully that helps with some of the nerves!



Designer said:


> You should make a list of the most important shots.  This is YOUR list, no need to share it with the bridal couple.  In making that list, jot down what lens, lighting, etc. will be required.  if it is just one odd shot in a remote location, assign that to your second shooter.
> 
> Speaking of second shooter; you need to pay that person.  Not to make anyone feel better, but to make it perfectly clear that he or she is to take direction from you.  Well worth the day's pay, IMO, so they don't decide to "get creative" and not be where you want them.
> 
> ...



Will do! Thanks!



dennybeall said:


> I've know a couple of wedding photographers that did have a "shot list" and they had the second shooter keeping track of the shots so they could concentrate on the photographic aspects.
> Did you mention getting a percentage up-front to hold the date(s) on your schedule.



Short list it is. I spoke with them last night, and they are aware of my base price. We'll be hammering out an itemized list during the consultation, so the contract they sign will have a specific number on it, along with pay-by dates. I'm thinking half after the engagement shoot, half after the ceremony? Or maybe before the ceremony?


Thank you so much everyone! Your tips are huge, and I really appreciate you speaking on your prior experience. With any luck, things will go smoothly!


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## Designer (Jan 13, 2015)

Regardless of when you are paid for the main event, you want to re-visit the couple maybe a few weeks or a month afterward to upsell them on some larger prints.  It will be worth your time.  That is when you show them a few shots that are winners, but which they had not thought of beforehand, or even had any knowledge that you took them.


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## JerryVenz (Jan 13, 2015)

Austin Greene said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> > Austin Greene said:
> ...




Whoa Austin!

I urge you to make it your POLICY TO REQUIRE FULL PAYMENT AT LEAST TWO WEEKS PRIOR TO THE WEDDING---NEVER HAVE ANY MONIES OWED AFTER THE WEDDING.

The only exception would be their album purchase--if an album was not in their wedding package. Even then we always require all orders placed after the wedding be paid in full at the time the order is placed.

We learned 25-years ago from VERY EXPERIENCED wedding photographers who got left with 1/3 of the contract unpaid and a whole bunch of useless wedding images because their clients got an ANNULMENT right after the wedding!

Jerry W. Venz  M.Photog.Cr.CPP


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## Vtec44 (Jan 13, 2015)

I have a policy of no full payment no pictures.     You should take payment prior to doing the photography work.  Keep in mind that credit card payments can be disputed by the payer, well after the service is completed.


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## CCericola (Jan 13, 2015)

Don't forget your liability and E&O and equipment insurance. Find out what limits the venues require you to have (Usually 1-2million). Call your agent if you need them added to the policy for that day and have it sent to the venue.


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## Tabe (Jan 13, 2015)

Jerry,

Your post is a great example of why I come to this forum regularly.  I'm not even a wedding photographer nor do I have any desire to be one.  Your helpful tone, the volume of great information, and the pile of battle-scar-earned tips are just fantastic.  Thank you for being so forthcoming with your help!


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## Austin Greene (Jan 14, 2015)

Thanks everyone! I really appreciate the insight, it's hugely helpful and it seems I have a lot to do before august.

Also, a quick update. This wedding is now confirmed, they might even pay for extra hours. I've also secured another wedding (backyard wedding, vs the huge venue of this first one) and an engagement shoot with a couple who might fly me down to Puerto Vallarta for their wedding if they like the results. Exciting stuff, now to just make sure I go about it all the right way!

Edit: Also, as for payment, I've made it a policy that full payment is required before the wedding date. Everyone's agreed to it thus far, and it will be in their contract. My contract also has a clause for creative license, the same one Joe Buissink recommends.

With that said, do any of you have any links to open-source contracts that are specific to weddings? It would be nice to have one that I can just change to fit my case, rather than having a new one drafted.


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## JerryVenz (Jan 14, 2015)

Tabe said:


> Jerry,
> 
> Your post is a great example of why I come to this forum regularly.  I'm not even a wedding photographer nor do I have any desire to be one.  Your helpful tone, the volume of great information, and the pile of battle-scar-earned tips are just fantastic.  Thank you for being so forthcoming with your help!



Thank you…..and yes these are "battle-scar-earned" pieces of advice! 

But, don't get me wrong, my wife and I LOVE doing weddings--we're hopeless romantics!  And, I love the challenge of creating a great STORYTELLING image of real people (as opposed to models) that I can enter into national or international competition.

The reason we share and teach is to raise the general level of photographic ability out there FOR THE SAKE OF THE BRIDES AND GROOMS  who just want some photographer to tell their story….WELL!

Jerry V.


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## JerryVenz (Jan 14, 2015)

Austin Greene said:


> Thanks everyone! I really appreciate the insight, it's hugely helpful and it seems I have a lot to do before august.
> 
> Also, a quick update. This wedding is now confirmed, they might even pay for extra hours. I've also secured another wedding (backyard wedding, vs the huge venue of this first one) and an engagement shoot with a couple who might fly me down to Puerto Vallarta for their wedding if they like the results. Exciting stuff, now to just make sure I go about it all the right way!
> 
> ...




Way to go Austin!

I suggest you schedule your first wedding's engagement session ASAP.  We usually do engagement sessions AT LEAST 6-MONTHS PRIOR TO THE WEDDING.  You don't want the engagement sales presentation to be competing with the wedding contract payoff.

Oh, bye the way, you DO HAVE AT LEAST ONE BACK-UP CAMERA AND FLASH…..RIGHT?

Jerry W. Venz M.Photog.Cr.CPP


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## vintagesnaps (Jan 14, 2015)

The book, not the other tempting camera stuff...
Allworth Book: Business and Legal Forms 9781581156690 B&H Photo

Lots of business resources for photographers. American Society of Media Photographers
Wednesdays once a month at 1pm there's a 'Business as UnUsual' webinar - free (even for nonmembers), you just sign up.


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