# SONY A7



## vipgraphx

First off sorry for a long post....

Has anyone been able to shoot with the Sony A7 yet? 

Price aside, do you folks think this Camera is a camera that will last for many years to come? Do you think this camera will hold its value? Do you think its a camera is more than just a toy full frame point and shoot camera? Do you think
this camera will give the perception of professional photographer?

Reason I ask is because there is no place in town where I can test one out. I know the NEX 6 feels like a toy camera in hand and feels like just a step up from a point and shoot. Being that I am used to Nikons and coming from the gripped D700 which was heavy and bulky and just felt like a mans camera ( no offense ladies ). When I had the 14 - 24 2.8 on there or the 70-200 VR II 2.8 I was always asked if I was a working pro. Once on vacation in Disneyland I was asked if I has a Disney photographer taking pictures for a special event, hahhahahaha. Seems like that camera just draws that attention and people take you more seriously where as the sony ned 6 looks like a soccer mom/dads camera regardless of how great the quality images it can produce.

Also a reason I ask is that I know with Nikon I never seem to have a problem reselling any items and that they held their value very well and since I am not familiar with sony or this type of camera especially since it is so new will it hold its value if later one would want to sell it down the road. 

Another reason I ask is that with all my nikons from the D50,D90 D7000 to the D700 they all felt very well built and I never worried about breaking them or putting them down on something to take a shot and what not. The sony NEX 6 that I have been testing  I feel like I need to be more cautious while handling it especially since it is nearly 100 % all electrical, seems like more electrical parts to go wrong or fail. 

I have been doing research and in the market for a new camera and at first I wanted to get away from lugging the heavy bulky DSLR camera around and thought that these new mirror less cameras where the answer. As I have played with the NEX 6 I really am starting to feel like the heavier bulky Nikons are the way to go. When using the D7100 paired with the 50 mm 1.8 , I know I can nail my shots and what I can and can't do. I have confidence in this set up that it will perform when I need it to and will not lose moments in life because I could not focus or access my adjustments quick enough to get the shot. The nex 6 was a slow camera in that respect, It takes to long sometimes to get everything just right and jus the other night I was taking some pictures of my daughter and her friends for the winter formal in low light and I could not seem to get it right with the NEX 6 and those girls where getting tired of standing there waiting, so I whipped out the Nikon D7100 and 50 mm 1.8 and nailed the shots I wanted within a few seconds and was done. This is the trust I have in the NIKONS that I don't seem to have just yet in the SONY line up.

So my questions I have, I am hoping that someone here has actually has a Sony A7 or played with one enough to shed some insight good or bad on this camera. To me they seem like they are more of a pro quality camera and what not. THe A7 is more attractive to me
than the A7r at this time. I know that there is not a lot of lenses right now from sony and many of the top quality shots I have seen on the internet are usually with 3rd party way more expensive lenses, I think sony will soon be adding lenses to compliment this camera within the next year, hopefully  sooner that later. Or using some Nikon glass with an adapter may be the answer for someone like me. I just don't have the desire to spend thousands of dollars on lenses at this point.

Now I am not a working professional but, I do like to buy the best I can within my budget. Spending about $1400 so far on a D7100 with 50mm lens I ask myself is another $500 for the A7 with kit lens worth the money. Is having the full frame 24mp sensor worth the $500. Will this camera last as long and hold value should I want to sell it in a few years? But to this point and looking back when I had the D7000 I was getting very very good quality images. Best buy has the D7000 for $799 including a decent vacation kit lens, I could by the flash and another a few more quality lenses for the same price as the A7. 

Sorry if I sound like a nut case, my wife is getting tired of me talking about it and searching the net....and says just make a decision and be happy... In this case I would have to drive up to Phoenix to buy the A7 which is about a 4-5 hour round trip. Should it not work out for me I would have hate to have to go back and hassle with a return.

Once again help on this would be appreciated!! Thanks for taking the time to read and post!


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## brunerww

Hi vipgraphx - thank you for providing the background on your decisionmaking process. Please see my answer to your OM-D E-M1 question over in the Mirrorless sub-forum (Providentially, I recommended the Sony A7 over the Olympus ).

Hope you're having a great holiday season!

Bill


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## gsgary

From what i have read it has better resolution than the D800 and Leica M240 if you buy the expensive lenses made for it, i have had a bit of a play with a club members A7R, Does anything Sony make last for years ? i wouldn't buy one to fiddly to use i would have a Leica over any camera though


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## JustJazzie

I'm interested in hearing the responses since I'm fascinated with the a7 but haven't tried one!

I did want to respond to your comment about "feeling like a professional" with your larger camera.

There are plenty of professionals switching over to mirrorless/micro 4/3 cameras. Trey Ratcliff and Damien Lovegrove are two that come to mind off the bat. Sure, people who don't know much about cameras think bigger is better, but professionals will preach about the right tool for the job so you've got to decide what tool will work best for you, and many masters are embracing mirror less as the future of photography and believe it's not IF you will switch, but when.

Really, what does it matter if strangers think you are a professional? Unless you are trying to book shoots while you're out and about.

I hope you come to peace with your decision! Like I've mentioned to you before, it took me a good 6 months to fall in love with my NEX coming from my xsi but I can't really imagine switching back to dslr. Then again, I've got tiny hands and it feels good between the fingers. ;-)


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## vipgraphx

gsgary, I really can't afford a Leica but yeah I would love to own one as well.

JustJazzie, Its not about what people think so much as it is what I think. The only reason I mentioned all that is because when you own a full frame gripped hunk of metal with a huge lens people just assume your this or that because of the camera and lens size. My goal was to get away from this huge camera set up but retain the quality, reliability and confidence I had in my D700. 

I hear you on the switching over part not if but when thus why I am so very interested in these new mirror-less cameras. But since they do cost a lot of money I would hate for this to not be able to withstand time. I use my cameras like crazy especially shooting HDR. I shoot anywhere from 3 exp in day and 7-9 in night with my D700. I would come home with hundreds of RAW files. Since HDR is one big interest of mine I need a camera that will allow high shutter count and longevity.

Cheers


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## gsgary

vipgraphx said:


> gsgary, I really can't afford a Leica but yeah I would love to own one as well.
> 
> JustJazzie, Its not about what people think so much as it is what I think. The only reason I mentioned all that is because when you own a full frame gripped hunk of metal with a huge lens people just assume your this or that because of the camera and lens size. My goal was to get away from this huge camera set up but retain the quality, reliability and confidence I had in my D700.
> 
> I hear you on the switching over part not if but when thus why I am so very interested in these new mirror-less cameras. But since they do cost a lot of money I would hate for this to not be able to withstand time. I use my cameras like crazy especially shooting HDR. I shoot anywhere from 3 exp in day and 7-9 in night with my D700. I would come home with hundreds of RAW files. Since HDR is one big interest of mine I need a camera that will allow high shutter count and longevity.
> 
> Cheers



I'm mostly mirrorless now 2 Leica M4's  and loads of film


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## JustJazzie

vipgraphx said:


> gsgary, I really can't afford a Leica but yeah I would love to own one as well.  JustJazzie, Its not about what people think so much as it is what I think. The only reason I mentioned all that is because when you own a full frame gripped hunk of metal with a huge lens people just assume your this or that because of the camera and lens size. My goal was to get away from this huge camera set up but retain the quality, reliability and confidence I had in my D700.  I hear you on the switching over part not if but when thus why I am so very interested in these new mirror-less cameras. But since they do cost a lot of money I would hate for this to not be able to withstand time. I use my cameras like crazy especially shooting HDR. I shoot anywhere from 3 exp in day and 7-9 in night with my D700. I would come home with hundreds of RAW files. Since HDR is one big interest of mine I need a camera that will allow high shutter count and longevity.  Cheers


  I hear you on that! My nex is only a year old to me and I feel like is already becoming "dated"  and I'm slightly worried they aren't going to be making many new Lens's for me. :-( I love the idea of the a7, but I'm going to wait and see how it fares.  As for the HDR, did you see Trey Ratcliffs new blog post about the a7 and HDR? It doesn't seem like they have improved bracketing options from the nex6/7. You will still have to manually adjust bracketing for night  photos since there is not a feature to set a self timer/remote and then have it fire your 3+ shots.


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## vipgraphx

Yeah I have been following Trey in regards to the sony line up. Since he has started and seems like he has spent a lot of money in Sony cameras in a very short period of time. I don't have the never ending pockets he seems to have to invest in as much glass and camera body's as he does. Thats one of my big fears is that you need to dump so much money in glass to get those great shots.

I am ok with adding a nice lens here and there but my concern is will the sony A7 last more than a year (hahahaha) I know if keep the nikon D7100 or even decide to get the D610 that body will be good to go for many many years without needing to worry about another body. This is why I was hoping to get some real life feedback about the camera. Will it really be the same quality and have the longevity as the Nikons, Canons.


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## JustJazzie

The glass for the a7 really does make you do a double take! It's one of the only reasons I haven't really pushed DH to let me go for it. I hope you get your answer since I'm very interested as well. I have a feeling the answer will be no though. Then again, canon and nikon don't seem to have great mirrorless options right now so maybe the future will surprise us!


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## vipgraphx

Yeah why is this so hard hahahaha. What I do like with the sony is that focus peaking and fine tuning the focus after auto focus. ITs also a fun camera to play around with. Thats why I was thinking the sony a7 would be the same but more pro like and less toy like. The other option for glass is to use an adapter and use nikon lenses right now. I know that sony will be adding in more glass in the future but by the time they do will there already be the A8, A9 ect..


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## JustJazzie

vipgraphx said:


> Yeah why is this so hard hahahaha. What I do like with the sony is that focus peaking and fine tuning the focus after auto focus. ITs also a fun camera to play around with. Thats why I was thinking the sony a7 would be the same but more pro like and less toy like. The other option for glass is to use an adapter and use nikon lenses right now. I know that sony will be adding in more glass in the future but by the time they do will there already be the A8, A9 ect..



At least the lens's would transfer. I think if I invest in anymore glass for the sony it  be the FE line for when I do upgrade. I'm irritated though that I got the LAST sony camera with the sony hotshot. It's making flash purchasing ridicous. And then I'm unhappy with my Fss of 160 and the a7 has Fss of 250. I wish I knew more about flashes when I chose the nex7.


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## vipgraphx

Thats one reason I wanted the NEX 6 more than the NEX 7 but 24mp is nice for cropping. One thing I have been going back and forth about these mirrorless cameras is this, Once you start using those other brand lenses does it really make this a smaller camera? IF you are using an adapter and a 14-24 2.8 nikon lens its going to be almost just as big as a DSLR. Unless sony releases small wide angles and small telephoto lenses I really don't see it being much different in long hall and isn't that what mirror less is all about being smaller and lighter with equal or better image quality.


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## Derrel

I've read from two qualified reviewers that the ridiculously designed menu system of the earlier NEX models has been overcome in the A7 and A7R models, and that they are now simpler, faster, and MUCH,much better designed. The A7 is supposed to be VERY easily customized by the user, so that might really help with one of the biggest issues you have, which was the "fiddly" nature of the NEX-6.

It's pretty early in the A7's lifespan to know how everything about it will shake out. Will it hold its value well? I think it might, provided that Sony does not come out with say, an a6 or a5 at drastically lower prices, which might undercut used market value of the A7 and A7R. Sony might make an A8 or A8R, maybe with even higher MP counts, and that could lower the value of an A7 or A7R in a market that values sky-high MP counts. My advice: if you want to worry about resale, ALWAYS buy used, older model stuff, where the depreciation as a percentage of purchase price has already been borne by the ORIGINAL, new-gear purchaser! Sony's tendency to shift directions and products on short notice has made their equipment sort of uncertain, and they HAVE shown RADICAL price-cutting moves before, like the little stunt they pulled with the a850 FF camera for under $2,000 in an effort to build market share against the Nikon D3x and their own a900 FF camera...so, again, SOny has shown that their users' worries are not Sony's worries.

I dunno...the A7 and A7R look interesting, but there are some drawbacks... focusing and continuous autofocus seems EXCEPTIONALLY WEAK. Which camera musters only 2.5 frames per second with continuous autofocusing? That's pretty lame, actually. There really are not many lenses that offer FULL, 24x36mm coverage and autofocus yet, but by the end of 2014 and then the end of 2015 Sony has promised a total of 15 lenses. Of course, those lenses are in a brand-new mount with only two cameras and a tiny, tiny user base.

Still, the A7 and A7R look interesting. The bodies are small, yes, but the 24-70 f/2.8 and the 70-200 f/2.8 zooms look regular-sized to me. All in all, I think there are more questions than there are answers, at this date. We might know more in a year.


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## vipgraphx

Derrel yeah your right to many questions at this point. If I wait I will be losing moments. One thing that you mentioned about sony changing with little notice is a concern to me as end user, Thats why I mentioned with the Nikon I trust in it, I know it will perform when I need it, lenses work with it from inexpensive to expensive , its dependable. This is the reason I posted this thread because I did not think about that part of it and its good to see other angles such as yours, you seem to be very knowledgeable when it comes to cameras and what not. 

Perhaps this may not be the camera just yet for a guy like me. Playing it safe would be sticking to NIKON. However as I read and read it seems like all end users seem to be very very satisfied with their Sony A7 and A7r and look forward not to be using their D800 and other FF branded cameras. This is what makes me so interested in this camera is it truly a game changer???

One thing I will note, is battery life really sucks in these sonys. I have now charged the sony nex 6 4 times and the D7100 only once. The A7 uses the same battery so one would have to buy multiple batteries at least two extra to get the same amount of shots in as the Nikon.........


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## slow231

i'm pretty much in the same boat.  I don't care about spending a decent chunk of change so long as it provides me with an equal level of performance to what i'm accustom to now (FF with top glass on a major manufacturer's system).  i'm also frustrated at not being able to put my hands on an A7/r to shoot.  I haven't even been able to shoot with an x100s and that's been avail for awhile. Perhaps i need to take a trip to NYC.  I'm also heavily invested in Nikon gear but like the OP feel OK about that because I will get every penny of that back should the day come.

Concerning the jump, I'm a bit worried about the lens availability (introduction/production of more lenses in the lineup).  Quality wise though i'm not too worried.  The ones out seem pretty outstanding and if i understand correctly, like with rangefinder cameras, quality lenses should be easier to make for mirrorless vs. mirrored (due to the physical distance to the sensor).  This would be especially true on the wide end where i'd be more interested.  AF performance is the other huge factor.  I love love love the snappynes of a good phase detect sensor.  The high end mirrorless cameras that I have been able to get my hands on, don't even come close.  End result is I probably have to wait anyways to get to test one out, so I might as well wait and see how the market for these develops.  Sony's direction changes are also somewhat concerning, but once there are good lenses available for what I need, i'd snatch one up. sony's fickleness be damned because i'd already have the system i need!

the one point the OP and I differ on is the pro-look.  I actually do shoot professionally, so you would think that looking impressive to my clients would be somewhat on my radar.  But truth be told I get hired 100% off my portfolio.  No one ever asks or questions me (in a critical way) about what I choose to shoot with.  If i showed up with a wind-up toy camera i'd probably end up with even more business just due to the wow factor.  Everyone and their mom runs around with "pro-looking" if not pro gear now aday's.  It's not the gear or the look of the gear that sets you apart. i don't know of any pros who would give two sh*t's about what the next guy is shooting.  it's only the amateur who is more concerned about the next photographer's gear than making his/her own shot.

walking around with a big chunk is a lot more inhibiting/distracting than it's worth sometimes.  I have been trying to integrate my other hobbies with photography (motorsports, mma, hiking...)  but lugging around a full dslr and big glass means i'm instantly committed to being in full photographer mode.  you can't interact/participate like you normally do (think about working on a car/bike or warming up a fighter with your 70-200 strapped on) and it's such a hulking ever-present reminder to everyone of the fact that you're shooting. This clunkyness and unwanted attention is even true with simple things like going out with the kid and not having it look like i'm doing a location shoot.  Theft etc. is always another reason why attention isn't good.  I'd absolutely jump at a chance to have a discrete system that does everything my no-compramises bag has today.


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## vipgraphx

slow231 , seems we are in the same boat, what you said in your last paragraph made complete sense. When I go to family functions first thing is hey Rich is here can you take pictures and email them to me. Even my mother expects that I attend all family gatherings with my equipment and snap away. Like you said you lose the social part thats for sure. When I sold off my nikon gear and started using my iphone  a few months ago it was great because I had a legit excuse not so take pictures. Everyone else could do the exact same thing as me with their phones. Now what ever camera I stay with Nikon or Sony I will most likely assume responsibilities as the family photographer hahahahaha.

Its sucks not to have a local sony store around to test out. Best buy does not carry it at all and the other two local camera shops don't either. One does not even sell sony only Nikon and the other does but this A7 is not on their agenda just yet.

Somewhere deep in side I do have a feeling though that this camera would be camera that would be fantastic to own and a little feeling in my stomach says get this camera jump ship you will not be disappointed   Just playing with the NEX 6 has been very fun...I really like the focus peaking and fine tune focus after auto focus...This is really really cool. I believe this is something that the Sony A7 offers as well. Plus the tilt screen is way cool something that nikon should have but doesn't....


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## slow231

damn didn't think about sony stores!  just called one they have one available...  let's see if i can convince the wife to go battle mall traffic.


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## vipgraphx

I almost drove up to Phoenix today after my last post but, decided not to rush out. The camera shop was closing in a few hours and it takes me about 2.5 hours to get there. I may order one through best buy and have it shipped. IF it does not work out for me I could always take it back with no 5 hour round trip drive back and forth to Pheonix.

Let me know if you end up with one and how it goes.....I am eager to hear.


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## DiskoJoe

After using Sony gear for many years I have come to the following realizations. 

The gear is really nice if not as nice as any offering from canon or nikon in respects to quality of the output you can achieve. 

The quality is even better if you buy the zeiss offerings for lenses.

The resale will not be as good as canon or nikon but you will probably be able to sell gear quicker, Sony shooters are a pretty tight knit bunch. 

The braketing sucks. Why the **** can they not make it auto bracket in whole step increments, I mean come now Sony!!!

Sony live view is quite an amazing thing and much better than what I have seen with other systems. 

Focusing could be faster but that wont really effect what you tend to use it for as much.


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## minicoop1985

DiskoJoe said:


> The resale will not be as good as canon or nikon but you will probably be able to sell gear quicker, Sony shooters are a pretty tight knit bunch.



This is absolutely true. I've only run into one Sony/Minolta Maxxum thing I've been stuck with: a Maxxum 7000 with a plastic mount 28-80 lens. I did get rid of them eventually.


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## vipgraphx

Fellas drive up to Phoenix this morning and played with this a7. All I can say is WOW.  Needless to say I  driving home with it. 

Cant wait a it to really get into this camera. This thing is rigged full of features and that new auto eye focus is soooo cool.


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## slow231

awesome! what lens(es) did you get with it?  and of course after you've shot with it a bunch, let us know how it compares to the d700.


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## Derrel

Yeah, let us know how you get on with it. I'm most interested to hear what you have to say **after** the "new wears off a little bit", ya' know? Yeah, did you get it with the 28-70mm f/3.5~5.6 zoom?


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## vipgraphx

Darrel and Slow231, I purchased the kit with the 28-70,  I called around Pheonix and these cameras are selling like hotcakes and most camera shops did not get  any of the available lenses and those that did, did not get a lot of them. I thought that this 28-70 would be ok for now to test since it was few hundred more and without a lens what good is the camera, plus I was eager to shoot. In the store the 28-70 really looked very good and impressive!! I think it will end up being a great vacation lens to have in the bag.

I will test more in the next few days and see where I am at. I still feel that the NIKON 7100 has very very impressive IQ and  I am hoping that this A7 will surpass that IQ as I really like the features in it.

Cheers and Merry Christmas!!

More to come Soon


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## robbins.photo

I guess what I'd be most interested in learning is how well the EVF stands up to a prolonged burst.  The systems I've owned with EVF did fine shooting one or two frames but any time I used them in burst mode there would be a very noticeable lag while the EVF updated.  Not a huge drawback for shooting portraits or landscapes but for action photo's it left a lot to be desired, so I'm very curious to see how good the EVF is on something like an A7


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## vipgraphx

Well the EVF is waaaaaayyy better than the NEX 7 and NEX 6. Its really close to looking in a DSLR its that clear as far as burst I will have to test that but I need a much faster memory card. I am using an older Scandisk Ultra 15mbs and a Transcend SDHC class 10 card. I think I need a much faster card right now I am noticing that it seems to be a little slow writing to the memory card. I will pick a faster card up tomorrow and see if it helps.


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## vipgraphx

please see my prosumer review 

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/sony/347899-new-a7-sample-pictures-prosumer-review.html


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## DiskoJoe

I would have sprung for the a7r. Of course with the way I shoot no low pass filter is really handy. Maybe not so much for your style.


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## vipgraphx

A few reasons I chose the A7 over the A7r

1) Probably about 99% of the time for I would be fine with  24mp and is all that anyone really would need 36mp is probably over kill
2) Less noise at higher ISO with the A7 which means a cleaner image...
3) New hybrid auto focus system...why spend so much money and not get the newer auto focus, I plan on using this to take videos as well where this really will help...
4) Faster Flash Sync Speed
5) Faser continuos shooting
5) The price difference of $600 did not justify NOT getting the newer Hybrid auto focus over the 36mp and no optical anti-aliasing filter..( I can always sharpen photos if needed later in photoshop or lightroom)

In real world use you probably will not see much difference in IQ one over the other....so that extra $600 can pay for almost the cost of the 35mm 2.8 zeiss lens

I chose the A7 kit  because the camera shop I had to drive to did not have any lenses to use unless you got the kit. Other wise I would have gotten the A7 body with the 35 or 55 zeiss lens.


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## vipgraphx

Wanted to show straight out of the camera JPEG no processing and kit lens.




DSC01013 by VIPGraphX, on Flickr

I think the bokeh is pretty creamy and the image is nice and sharp....Have not had to much time this week to really play around with it. I would like to order a flash so i can do some portraits of the kids. So far just been no flash with what ever light source is around and its not bad but I know could be way better with some fill flash.


Outside on screened in back porch. My youngest playing with his dog.




zion_misha by VIPGraphX, on Flickr


I was pretty impressed with this shot. IT was on New Years Eve my boys were outside playing with sparklers in the dark. This is the shot I was able to take. Not the most sharpest but it was hand held in the dark with just the sparkler light.




ZION sparkler by VIPGraphX, on Flickr


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