# No More Website...



## Steve5D (Oct 28, 2013)

After four years of having not a single dime of revenue generated by my website, I have allowed it to go buh-bye.

I'm conflicted about this, though. The site has, literally, not generated a single cent in revenue. I've never sold a print through it, and I've never been hired as a result of what people have seen there. It just kind of sat there, year after year (at $149.00 per), so I've let it go.

All of my money has been generated two ways: People either purchase directly off my Fine Art America site, or they see photos I post elsewhere (Flickr, Facebook) and inquire about purchasing them. The other way is word-of-mouth when someone needs to hire a photographer.

The way I see it is that the website was little more than a self-indulgent ego stroke, so I could hand someone a business card and say "Oh, and that's my website".

So, I let it lapse.

On the one hand, I think potential clients like to know that I've got a website, even if it's not responsible for them finding me or buying something from me. On the other hand, though, I feel like I'm simply pissing money away by not using it wisely.

Thoughts?


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## texkam (Oct 29, 2013)

A free site using Weebly or Wix can at least give you a web presence.


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## Steve5D (Oct 29, 2013)

texkam said:


> A free site using Weebly or Wix can at least give you a web presence.



My site was built through Wix, and it was definitely not free...


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## texkam (Oct 29, 2013)

I know the free version of Weebly will have branding at the bottom of the page. I think Wix is the same. Just insert a lot of spacing after your last line of type...





















and few will even notice what's at the bottom.


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## limr (Oct 29, 2013)

Wordpress is free and they have photo-friendly themes. They're mostly known for blog hosting, but you can set up a more static, informative website, I think. It's free but if you want it to look more profession, it costs some money but not very much. For example, the domain that includes xxx.wordpress.com is free, and if you want to drop the 'wordpress' then you can buy the domain name from them or Godaddy for something like $15 a year. "Premium" themes aren't free but I think it's just a one shot deal to buy one, not per year. They're most around $60 depending on the theme.

15 Beautiful Photography Websites Powered by WordPress - 121Clicks.com

Edited: There's a wordpress.com and a wordpress.org. I think it's the .org site that hosts the more professional website, and the .com that is more for blogging. It confused me at first - they're connected somehow, but I'm not sure how.


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## Don Kondra (Oct 29, 2013)

Hi Steve,

I'm not clear on whether or not you "built" the site ?  Bear with me if I'm preaching to the choir  

I believe it is almost expected that one have a web presence today to be perceived as a professional.  Doesn't cost anything to add your web site address to your business card. 

Neither my Woodworking site or my Product Photo site have "directly" generated sales BUT they work quite well as a remote portfolio.

That function combined with a web presence was enough for me to take the time to build my own sites instead of vegging on the couch at the end of the day.... 

I met a potential client at a social event and we got talking.  I showed him my website on our hosts computer and he purchased a piece from that viewing.

When I am approached by a new client for product work I direct them to my site to view samples of my work.  

As is almost always the case, they heard of me first by word of mouth.

Having said that, I am all done paying to have a site hosted.  iPage was ~$4/month including a dot com address but does nothing I can't do with Weebly for free. 

And if you don't like your address to be xxxxx.weebly.com you can purchase a domain name from them.  

The site creator tool is relatively easy to use if you have some basic computer skills 

Adding or changing content is no more difficult than uploading an image to PhotoBucket, etc.  

Click on "Publish" and it's live. 

Cheers, Don


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## PhotoWrangler (Oct 29, 2013)

Steve5D said:


> Thoughts?





I would have thought someone with the marketing knowledge you claim to possess would know the answer to such a quandary.


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## Overread (Oct 29, 2013)

I can't think of a modern professional company that doesn't have a website - even most small highstreet shops have a website or at the very least listings on various websites. 

I'd say get yourself a free site put together - wordpress - flickr something that lets you have an online portfolio and a list of basic information (who you are, where you are, your work, rates etc..). Flickr isn't that ideal now that htey did away with a profile page (WHY! stupid updates) so I'd say go for a a free wordpress site. You can throw something that looks good together in a day or two. 

You won't process sales through the site (which likely was where your costs were going with the first one) but you can at least have it as a contact and information point. It's also something you can have the address put onto a business card to hand out at events etc...


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## Steve5D (Oct 29, 2013)

PhotoWrangler said:


> Steve5D said:
> 
> 
> > Thoughts?
> ...



Well, aside from the obvious, and poorly executed, attempted back-handed slap, my marketing background is what's making me question whether or not this is the right move. 

I still have a web presence, and it's _that _web presence, and _not _my website, which has generated revenue. One question is the effective use of my money. Is it worth it to put it into something which provides zero return? Yes, people like to see a ".com". But the fact of the matter is that not a single print sale has been realized because of my website, and not a single job or lead has been generated.

I won't tax you with critical thinking, though. I'll pay attention to the smarter people who reply...


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## Steve5D (Oct 29, 2013)

Overread said:


> I can't think of a modern professional company that doesn't have a website - even most small highstreet shops have a website or at the very least listings on various websites.
> 
> I'd say get yourself a free site put together - wordpress - flickr something that lets you have an online portfolio and a list of basic information (who you are, where you are, your work, rates etc..). Flickr isn't that ideal now that htey did away with a profile page (WHY! stupid updates) so I'd say go for a a free wordpress site. You can throw something that looks good together in a day or two.
> 
> You won't process sales through the site (which likely was where your costs were going with the first one) but you can at least have it as a contact and information point. It's also something you can have the address put onto a business card to hand out at events etc...



As I said, I still have a web presence. I'm on Fine Art America, and that's been the source of a semi-regular stream of sales. I'm also on Blogger and Flickr, and I've had a few sales generated through those, as well as Facebook. I just don't think I'd want to rely on those, though.

I've got friends who use Wordpress, though, and seem happy with it...


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## pixmedic (Oct 29, 2013)

I don't think I could justify maintaining multiple web sites if one of them was not making any money. 
I suppose you could do it just because you WANT to keep it, but since  you already mentioned having other websites that are actually generating revenue, i dont see much point in paying for one that isn't. 

was there something about your wix page that was different from the rest? a different portfolio or setup that showed your work differently that might make it worth keeping? were all your pages linked, and is there any chance that your wix page drove people to your fine arts page and to buying prints? if so, the wix page might be earning its keep. if not, I think i would ditch it since your really not losing a "web presence".


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## runnah (Oct 29, 2013)

As a part web designer I strongly suggest you have a site.


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## astroNikon (Oct 29, 2013)

Having a website is one thing.  Having the correct "metadata" so that the website is indexed via webbots is another.

One of my hobbies is musical instruments, clarinets to be more specific.  I have one of the largest historical clarinet websites on the internet.  The hits it gets are amazing and a marketing story.. for what little it is.  I've tracked the hits, etc.   It has generated revenue for me which is mostly used to support the website and purchase other supplies for the art of musical instrument repair.  Though I repaired few instruments by comparison, just enough to keep the ball rolling.  The key of it all was not the website itself, but the metadata which allows the webbots to read and search the content.

Luckily I picked that trick up from a friend that has been website programming about 10 years ago.

But nowadays, I think just having a Facebook page would be enough. (Plus your other sites)


My website is going through a transition. I believe I'm going to start having google ads on it.  It will be the only financial support to keep the website going and expanding.  It currently is about 10 GB is total space and needs more, which takes me beyond my 10GB storage contract from well over 10 years ago and is a big jump financially, which I do not want to bear from my pockets.

It's hard to "expand" in multiple locations.  If that website isn't doing anything then can it for a whilte and focus on the other ones.  Facebook is the defacto standard nowadays for traffic, so I would focus on that one plus the other venues that you have. No sense in wasting your time if you know a website isn't drawing any traffic/revenue.

So I totally understand your situation.  And truthfully, pushing Facebook traffic would be a good first step with links to your other sites.  Have a link on your .com saying you've moved to Facebook from your website for a few months.  And you can always keep the Domain Name for a few years as it is fairly cheap, just in case.

Also keep your website just in case you want to revive it.


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## runnah (Oct 29, 2013)

astroNikon said:


> Having a website is one thing.  Having the correct "metadata" so that the website is indexed via webbots is another.



eh not so much. Maybe 10 years ago. It's all about refreshing content and social network marketing.

10gb?!?!?!?!?? What the hell do you have on your site? I hope you aren't saving all that via your host, if so you are getting screwed big time.

PM me your site.


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## DougGrigg (Oct 29, 2013)

one website is all you need. Cargo Collective. Build your own website. just with cargo in the link. 

If you have saved all your html you can definitely just transfer the same stuff over, you'll need to email cargo themselves with examples of your work, as they only select set individuals they believe have talent  good luck try it out!


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## Steve5D (Oct 29, 2013)

pixmedic said:


> I don't think I could justify maintaining multiple web sites if one of them was not making any money.
> I suppose you could do it just because you WANT to keep it, but since  you already mentioned having other websites that are actually generating revenue, i dont see much point in paying for one that isn't.
> 
> was there something about your wix page that was different from the rest? a different portfolio or setup that showed your work differently that might make it worth keeping? were all your pages linked, and is there any chance that your wix page drove people to your fine arts page and to buying prints? if so, the wix page might be earning its keep. if not, I think i would ditch it since your really not losing a "web presence".



No, there was nothing really special about it. It was little more than an online portfolio, with a page which listed rates for shooting and for prints.

Not. A. Dime.


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## amolitor (Oct 29, 2013)

At best, a web site is a piece of the puzzle. It's not going to do much by itself. If there's no plan for how it's going to convert Something into Something Else (e.g. potential client into paying customer, idle browser into potential client, whatever) then it's probably not going to accomplish much.

Once that's in place, then you have to figure out how to get the Something's onto it. That also does not happen by itself.

It has to fit into your sales pipeline model, or it's not going to produce revenue.

Lots of businesses feel they "need a web presence" because everyone has one, but almost all of them are rubbish and accomplish nothing. There ARE other reasons to have a web presence. Credibility is one (I guess?) and there's a lot of "for more information" sorts of things out there, some branding activity (again, maybe?), as well as post-sales customer support activities. Virtually all the corporate web site usage I make is post-sales customer support.


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## astroNikon (Oct 29, 2013)

Steve5D said:


> No, there was nothing really special about it. It was little more than an online portfolio, with a page which listed rates for shooting and for prints.
> 
> Not. A. Dime.



It could evolve to .. these are my best works .. and my rates
Make your dreams live in special memories by my expertise ... type marketing

you know, what a wedding photographer does.

of course, I haven't even looked at your site ...  :scratch:


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## runnah (Oct 29, 2013)

amolitor said:


> At best, a web site is a piece of the puzzle. It's not going to do much by itself.



Bingo. I have clients who think that once they have a site the money is just going to flow in. They get mad because they don't understand why their site isn't generating money. I then explain to them that they haven't changed anything on it for over 2 years and they don't pay me to run their online marketing campaign. 

It's a massive multi-pronged undertaking to gain a substantial web presence.

Oh and if you say SEO I will slap you.


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## jowensphoto (Oct 29, 2013)

I paid $15 for a year of hosting through GoDaddy during a sale. Pretty much an online portfolio linked to my Wordpress blog.


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## KmH (Oct 29, 2013)

Today you not only need a web site (or 2 or 3), you need a regularly updated blog(s) and a business presence on several social media web sites.

Many small business marketing gurus suggest that the base for business social media marketing is to have a Google Public Profile that you keep updated with links to your blog(s), social media accounts, portfolio web sites, and YouTube channel.

As always, marketing and promoting a photography business is in itself a never ending, pretty much full time job.


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## amolitor (Oct 29, 2013)

I'd be interested in hearing from any actual small business owners who are generating business from a web site.


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## runnah (Oct 29, 2013)

amolitor said:


> I'd be interested in hearing from any actual small business owners who are generating business from a web site.



I can give you numbers from my clients, but its really not that unexpected. Those who actively participate get more business. 

One client I have whom I help with certain aspects does a ton of work and they've seen their business take off.

Currently they have:
Linkedin
Facebook
Twitter
Youtube
Google+
Blogs that are frequently updated and contain dozens of sharing tools.
Pay per click advertising
Direct marketing
Dynamic Email sent to past and present clients
Customer satisfaction surveys
Plus all the normal print stuff like ads and brochures. 

With the exception of the print ads and pay per click their only investment has been time.


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## lambertpix (Oct 29, 2013)

If I were paying $150 / yr, I'd *definitely* want to see a return, and if you've got a presence elsewhere that's working, I'm not sure I'd shed too many tears over it.  A decent FB presence helps, too, and it sounds like you've got that covered.  At this point, it's only a loss if *you* feel that it's a loss.


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## jamesbjenkins (Oct 29, 2013)

Steve, I'm sure you've already thought of this, but perhaps not in the very recent past. My website is on the Smugmug platform, and while I have the Pro version that's $249/yr, they have several lower levels that would likely have the portfolio display capabilities that are probably all you care about.

IMO, having a website is absolutely mandatory these days. Even if no commerce is conducted directly on the site, the customer wants to see a website 99 times out of 100. At least my customers do.


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## runnah (Oct 29, 2013)

lambertpix said:


> If I were paying $150 / yr, I'd *definitely* want to see a return, and if you've got a presence elsewhere that's working, I'm not sure I'd shed too many tears over it.  A decent FB presence helps, too, and it sounds like you've got that covered.  At this point, it's only a loss if *you* feel that it's a loss.



Sorry but $150 is a very small drop in a very large bucket.

If you are expecting a big return or any return for that little money you are very misinformed.


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## cbarnard7 (Oct 29, 2013)

$150 seems like a lot for a year? I know nothing about it, but I wouldn't pay for it if you weren't getting what you wanted out of it. There's many, cheaper ways of doing that.


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## runnah (Oct 29, 2013)

cbarnard7 said:


> $150 seems like a lot for a year? I know nothing about it, but I wouldn't pay for it if you weren't getting what you wanted out of it. There's many, cheaper ways of doing that.



Why do I have to pay for a wedding photographer when I can just have a MWAC shoot it?!


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## cbarnard7 (Oct 29, 2013)

runnah said:


> cbarnard7 said:
> 
> 
> > $150 seems like a lot for a year? I know nothing about it, but I wouldn't pay for it if you weren't getting what you wanted out of it. There's many, cheaper ways of doing that.
> ...



I get it: quality, quality, quality. But, is the quality really that much more worth it for what you're paying? I've seen some fantastic sites linked through a wordpress or something that cost a third of what he's paying.


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## cbarnard7 (Oct 29, 2013)

runnah said:


> lambertpix said:
> 
> 
> > If I were paying $150 / yr, I'd *definitely* want to see a return, and if you've got a presence elsewhere that's working, I'm not sure I'd shed too many tears over it.  A decent FB presence helps, too, and it sounds like you've got that covered.  At this point, it's only a loss if *you* feel that it's a loss.
> ...



It really depends on what he wants. It doesn't matter if your website shoots fireworks out of the screen every time you visit- if it's not working, it's not working.


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## runnah (Oct 29, 2013)

cbarnard7 said:


> But, is the quality really that much more worth it for what you're paying? I've seen some fantastic sites linked through a wordpress or something that cost a third of what he's paying.



Well it all depends. Are you paying for just a name and a spot, ok than $150 is high. But if you are paying for a lot of storage and design work than $150 is chump change.


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## runnah (Oct 29, 2013)

cbarnard7 said:


> It really depends on what he wants. It doesn't matter if your website shoots fireworks out of the screen every time you visit- if it's not working, it's not working.



BS. Blaming a website for your lack of business is like blaming a hammer for building a ****ty house. Both are tools and both are at the control of the user.

For all we know his work could suck, the market could be saturated in his area etc... 

At the end of a day a ****ty product will sell if it's marketed well enough. Think Mcdonalds, Justin Bieber, Canon etc...


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## jamesbjenkins (Oct 29, 2013)

amolitor said:


> I'd be interested in hearing from any actual small business owners who are generating business from a web site.



My "real" job is owning/operating an insurance agency with Farmers Insurance. I get a healthy percentage of my organic leads directly through my website and social media channels.


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## pixmedic (Oct 29, 2013)

jamesbjenkins said:


> amolitor said:
> 
> 
> > I'd be interested in hearing from any actual small business owners who are generating business from a web site.
> ...



where do you get your inorganic leads from?


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## runnah (Oct 29, 2013)

pixmedic said:


> where do you get your inorganic leads from?



Content.


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## pixmedic (Oct 29, 2013)

runnah said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> > where do you get your inorganic leads from?
> ...



oh. i was gonna say outer space, but your answer makes more sense. kinda.


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## runnah (Oct 29, 2013)

pixmedic said:


> oh. i was gonna say outer space, but your answer makes more sense. kinda.



Search engines go through sites looking for new content. When it finds new content it is scanned for keywords that are unique. These words are used to generate indexing for future searches.

Basically think man vs. machines.


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## pixmedic (Oct 29, 2013)

runnah said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> > oh. i was gonna say outer space, but your answer makes more sense. kinda.
> ...



oh yea! i know this one...
a machine from the future goes back in time to warn you that your website sucked and didn't generate enough revenue to sustain your business, which collapsed causing a global financial meltdown plunging all countries into a massive depression. So the machine that went back in time gives you the secret meta-code for the perfect SEO, therefor averting global disaster and saving mankind. 

I totally know pretty much nothing about all this techy stuff.


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## runnah (Oct 29, 2013)

pixmedic said:


> oh yea! i know this one... a machine from the future goes back in time to warn you that your website sucked and didn't generate enough revenue to sustain your business, which collapsed causing a global financial meltdown plunging all countries into a massive depression. So the machine that went back in time gives you the secret meta-code for the perfect SEO, therefor averting global disaster and saving mankind.  I totally know pretty much nothing about all this techy stuff.



You just described in perfect detail Googles 5 year business plan.


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## NancyMoranG (Oct 30, 2013)

I think Runnah has the right Avatar for this thread. Is there one of him pulling his hair out in his next one?
Sorry, I have nothing to add to the discussion as am a techno newb.
However, if OP isn't generating any revenue from it, why miss it? Just up the avenues he is getting income from? 
Newb, Nancy


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## Steve5D (Oct 30, 2013)

runnah said:


> With the exception of the print ads and pay per click their only investment has been time.



So they don't pay _you _for _your _services?

Where do I sign up for _that_?


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## runnah (Oct 30, 2013)

Steve5D said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> > With the exception of the print ads and pay per click their only investment has been time.
> ...



Well of course my time isn't free. But I've worked for goods for goods types of deals before which are fantastic. I build you a site and you build me a cabinet.


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## Robin_Usagani (Oct 30, 2013)

I have not paid renewal fee of zenfolio.  Even though I give the high res to my wedding clients, guests still buy $8 4x6s  .

Anyway, a website is more like a validation that I am in fact a professional.  Nobody is going to pay me my rate if I did not have a website.  I think you should keep it.


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## pixmedic (Oct 30, 2013)

Robin_Usagani said:


> I have not paid renewal fee of zenfolio.  Even though I give the high res to my wedding clients, guests still buy $8 4x6s  .
> 
> Anyway, a website is more like a validation that I am in fact a professional.  Nobody is going to pay me my rate if I did not have a website.  I think you should keep it.



as he mentioned before...he DOES have a website still. two more of them i think, one being his fine arts page.  the Wix page was just one of a few he has.


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## Steve5D (Oct 30, 2013)

runnah said:


> cbarnard7 said:
> 
> 
> > But, is the quality really that much more worth it for what you're paying? I've seen some fantastic sites linked through a wordpress or something that cost a third of what he's paying.
> ...



Believe me, there wasn't a whole lot of "design" to it.

Had an assload of storage, though...


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## pixmedic (Oct 30, 2013)

runnah said:


> Steve5D said:
> 
> 
> > runnah said:
> ...



maybe we can work out a trade....
you build me a site, and I defibrillate you. or electrocardiovert. your choice.


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## Steve5D (Oct 30, 2013)

runnah said:


> BS. Blaming a website for your lack of business is like blaming a hammer for building a ****ty house. Both are tools and both are at the control of the user.



I'm not suffering a lack of business (everyone would like more, though). But the business I get is from other places. No one has hired me because of what they saw on my website. They hired me because what they've seen elsewhere. Print sales? Same thing...


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## amolitor (Oct 30, 2013)

Dropping the web site seems like it was the right call, to me.


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## runnah (Oct 30, 2013)

amolitor said:


> Dropping the web site seems like it was the right call, to me.



Well for once I can play the "I know more than you card" here and say I 100% disagree. 

These days when people are looking for a service they look online, if they just see a name and no site they think "rinky dink outfit that can't even afford a site". Even if you do nothing with it and the revenue is zero dollars it at least establishes you as legitimate. It's silly I know but that is how it works these days.


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## runnah (Oct 30, 2013)

Steve5D said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> > BS. Blaming a website for your lack of business is like blaming a hammer for building a ****ty house. Both are tools and both are at the control of the user.
> ...



Do you informally survey these customers as to where they hear about your services? Do all your customers just make their decisions based on word of mouth? Do they look at a portfolio? If so where do they get to it?

You have the right to make any choice you want when it comes to your business but I wish you would give it the old college try before hanging up your skates.


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## runnah (Oct 30, 2013)

pixmedic said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> > Steve5D said:
> ...



I just want to play with the siren and lights.


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## kathyt (Oct 30, 2013)

When all else fails there is always Groupon.


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## amolitor (Oct 30, 2013)

runnah said:


> amolitor said:
> 
> 
> > Dropping the web site seems like it was the right call, to me.
> ...



This is absolutely the conventional wisdom! I don't pretend to know if it's true or not. I look forward to Steve's updates on the subject


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## 12sndsgood (Oct 30, 2013)

I was also wondering what has made you think your site is not worth being up. have you done any analasis to determine where everyone comes from? If you have and it's not drawing you business is it because your style or way of doing business doesn't require it, or could it be your website isn't geared or setup to the way you are doing your business. maybe a revamp could be in order. Just some things to think about.


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## Steve5D (Oct 30, 2013)

runnah said:


> You have the right to make any choice you want when it comes to your business but I wish you would give it the old college try before hanging up your skates.



Isn't college about four years long?


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## Steve5D (Oct 30, 2013)

runnah said:


> Do you informally survey these customers as to where they hear about your services?



Unless it's obvious, yeah, I actually do...



> Do all your customers just make their decisions based on word of mouth? Do they look at a portfolio? If so where do they get to it?



Well, again, the vast majority of my business is print sales. I've sold one photo that was shown on my website, but only after I also put it up on FAA. Photos sold, that are posted on Flickr, FAA and Facebook represent almost the entirety of my business...


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## Steve5D (Nov 18, 2013)

Well, I guess it was bound to happen...

*A recap:*

I decided to let my website die. It had not generated a single dime in revenue in the time I'd had it, so I didn't see the point in maintaining it.

_*Jump forward a few weeks:*_

Well, I was hired to shoot a regional youth football tournament that took place this weekend. The guy who hired me looked at my website before it went buh-bye. He told me at dinner last night that, had he not seen my website, he never would've hired me. He wasn't interested in looking at Flickr or Fine Art America or 500pix. He wanted a website that had my name on it.

So, I'm going to revamp it and keep it going. The nice part is that the new one is going to cost about a third of what the old one did, and it's a lot easier to edit.

Just when you think you've got it figured out...


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## runnah (Nov 18, 2013)

Steve5D said:


> Well, I guess it was bound to happen...
> 
> *A recap:*
> 
> ...



I told ya so.


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## Steve5D (Nov 18, 2013)

runnah said:


> Steve5D said:
> 
> 
> > Well, I guess it was bound to happen...
> ...



You did, sir. You did...


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## runnah (Nov 18, 2013)

Steve5D said:


> You did, sir. You did...



Well if you ever need any help/suggestions on web stuff I can give you even more top notch advice.


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## Braineack (Nov 18, 2013)

Steve5D said:


> _*Jump forward a few weeks:*_
> 
> Well, I was hired to shoot a regional youth football tournament that took place this weekend. The guy who hired me looked at my website before it went buh-bye. He told me at dinner last night that, had he not seen my website, he never would've hired me. He wasn't interested in looking at Flickr or Fine Art America or 500pix. He wanted a website that had my name on it.



Yeah, if I were a client, I'd feel more comfortable with this as well.  Sure you might do all your other sales through other marketing opportunities, but it is nice to have a space of your own; even if it doesn't generate direct sales.


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## Steve5D (Nov 19, 2013)

Braineack said:


> Steve5D said:
> 
> 
> > _*Jump forward a few weeks:*_
> ...



Yeah, someone earlier recommended Weebly. I checked it out and, for someone like me, it's perfect. I'm not a "website guy". I need "drag and drop". I need the Playskool version of website building. I need simplicity, and Weebly has that. I'd been using Wix for my old site (which was flash), and Weebly is about 1/5th the cost (I was using an upgade on Wix). Considering that I know _*I*_ like to see someone's name on a website, a few dollars a month is an easy sell for me.

Of course, I was up until 4:00 this morning working on the damn thing, but that's part of the fun... Right?


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## Braineack (Nov 19, 2013)

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]Koken is another interesting easy/cheap portfolio solution.  I'd think of your own personal site more of a business card with contact info, examples of works, and exposure  whereas you can continue doing sales through your other venues.[/FONT]


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