# 72" Umbrella



## smoke665 (Oct 31, 2020)

Looking at adding either a white with removable black back or a silver both with diffusion cover.  I like the edginess that you get with the silver, but the white would get more use.

Anyone using either? The good - the bad?


----------



## Space Face (Nov 1, 2020)

Not my field of knowledge but I have just got a cheap 5 in 1 reflector set.  White, black, silver and gold.  Hope to use some of them next week to photograph my new granddaughter.


----------



## smoke665 (Nov 1, 2020)

Space Face said:


> Not my field of knowledge but I have just got a cheap 5 in 1 reflector set.  White, black, silver and gold.  Hope to use some of them next week to photograph my new granddaughter.



The silver moves a lot of light and can be a problem with specular highlights. It will  minimize redness in skin and make the transition between tones sharper. Baby skin is so soft and smooth that I've always found white to be the best, the bigger the better. I had a "golden" period with the gold reflector, when Lil'Bit was just a baby. Let's just say it's easy to overdo. LOL


----------



## Space Face (Nov 1, 2020)

smoke665 said:


> Space Face said:
> 
> 
> > Not my field of knowledge but I have just got a cheap 5 in 1 reflector set.  White, black, silver and gold.  Hope to use some of them next week to photograph my new granddaughter.
> ...



Thanks for the tips.  I'm pretty clueless regarding portrait photography and lighting so am grateful for any advice. 

I'm going to use natural light backed up by a small led studio light reflected off the reflectors.  I think they are in the region of 3-4 feet in diameter.  Very much experimental for me.


----------



## smoke665 (Nov 1, 2020)

Space Face said:


> I'm going to use natural light backed up by a small led studio light reflected off the reflectors. I think they are in the region of 3-4 feet in diameter. Very much experimental for me.



Not to intimidate or confuse, but be aware that "mixed" ambient light and studio light can create issues. Unless you gel your light Balancing Color for Flash and Ambient Light using Gels  you frequently end up with unmatched color in residential settings. Sometimes it's better to use a window with a sheer curtain as the light source. The baby doesn't have to be in the light, anything that reflects the light will move it on your subject (reflector or even a white wall). Also be aware that light reflecting off colored objects (brightly painted nursery walls) can and will impart their color on your subject


----------



## Space Face (Nov 1, 2020)

smoke665 said:


> Space Face said:
> 
> 
> > I'm going to use natural light backed up by a small led studio light reflected off the reflectors. I think they are in the region of 3-4 feet in diameter. Very much experimental for me.
> ...



Thanks again. I won't be using gels but I take your point about colour issues with the studio light.   I never considered that but will now.  I may just use the reflectors for the ambient light. As I said it'll be pretty much experimental  for me.

My aim is not to produce photos for professional use or reasons but to do the best I can to leave the best possible photos I can of my granddaughters stages of growth and development for my daughter.  Hence I've forked out for the Sigma 105mm Art. I have a variety of other lenses too as I realise the Sigma will have it's limitations,  particularly in more confined spaces.


----------



## smoke665 (Nov 1, 2020)

@Space Face The single most important bit of advice I can give you...........are you ready? HAVE FUN AND ENJOY THE MOMENT. Don't get so caught up in the photography that you dont enjoy the time with her, because there will never ever be that exact moment again. Make it worthwhile and any old snapshot will remind you of the memory.


----------



## Space Face (Nov 1, 2020)

smoke665 said:


> @Space Face The single most important bit of advice I can give you...........are you ready? HAVE FUN AND ENJOY THE MOMENT. Don't get so caught up in the photography that you dont enjoy the time with her, because there will never ever be that exact moment again. Make it worthwhile and any old snapshot will remind you of the memory.



Oh, your so right.   That said every moment I spend with her just melts my heart.   There's dozens if not hundreds of fone shots already taken by the family and of course the pro shoot they were gifted. 

I'm quite excited by the challenge and I know my daughter, my wife and other folk will like my pics but I just want to push myself a bit to leave the best memories I can, for after I'm gone (hopefully I'll last a good while yet)


----------



## Designer (Nov 1, 2020)

smoke665 said:


> Looking at adding either a white with removable black back or a silver both with diffusion cover.  I like the edginess that you get with the silver, but the white would get more use.
> 
> Anyone using either? The good - the bad?


With a large modifier, you get very little shadowing, nearly non-existent.  If you want modeling, use a smaller light or even a bare bulb to get a bit of shadow.  The large umbrella can give overall even light for "fill", and adding the smaller hotter light can act as the key light.

Definitely get the black back cover to cut light spill into the room.  

Also, you might need to counter-balance the weight of the large umbrella or use a second light stand on which to clamp the umbrella to keep it from falling down.


----------



## smoke665 (Nov 1, 2020)

Designer said:


> With a large modifier, you get very little shadowing, nearly non-existent. If you want modeling, use a smaller light or even a bare bulb to get a bit of shadow. The large umbrella can give overall even light for "fill", and adding the smaller hotter light can act as the key light.
> 
> Definitely get the black back cover to cut light spill into the room.



I'd have to disagree with you on this "_With a large modifier, you get very little shadowing, nearly non-existent"_ the deepest shadow is still there, what you get is a more gradual transition zone from highlight to shadow, the same can be said about the highlights as the larger light source spreads out specular highlights. That nice even light is the reason it's been around in fashion photography for several years. You'll see many only using a one light setup with a honking big umbrella. 

I went ahead and ordered a 72" non removable black back because the removable one was out of stock. They aren't that expensive that I can't order a translucent one later. The translucent provides some seriously soft light for portraits so it will be coming soon.

As to weight, in studio there isn't a real issue even with the diffusion cloth they're less than 5 lbs, and my current stands are more than capable. Outside is another matter, as it's a giant sail waiting to take off with the slightest breeze.


----------



## JBPhotog (Nov 2, 2020)

If I understand you correctly you wanted to decide on either a silver lined umbrella or a white translucent with a black backing that can be removed?

FWIW, I tend not to use silver as specularity can be an issue with skin unless good makeup application is employed. But essentially if one uses the same size umbrella, at the same distance and bouncing it off the interior set at the same focus point on the umbrella shaft, both provide the same degree of softness. Softness of the light is determined by the size and distance of the modifier specularity is determined by the surface the light bounces off. If you plan on shooting people against a background the silver will likely produce stepped shadows and I personally never shoot through an umbrella, I use other modifiers which control spill much more effectively. Also, silver umbrellas may exhibit more of a hot spot if the strobe head isn't at the optimum position on the rod, which can produce harder shadows.

Diffusion in both cases will affect the softness but the sliver may just be a tad more specular.


----------



## smoke665 (Nov 2, 2020)

JBPhotog said:


> If I understand you correctly you wanted to decide on either a silver lined umbrella or a white translucent with a black backing that can be removed?



Yes that's correct. However its somewhat s mute point as the white with nonremovable black back was the only one in stock. 



JBPhotog said:


> specularity is determined by the surface the light bounces off.



I have several modifiers now, beauty dishes, softboxes, umbrellas, etc. In both white and silver, and I agree that the silver can create specular highlights. However as the size of the modifier increases so does the area of the highlight. Using a diffusion cover also helps. 



JBPhotog said:


> silver will likely produce stepped shadows



Yes that's been my experience. IMO it also produces a crisper color, and minimizes skin redness.


----------



## JBPhotog (Nov 2, 2020)

smoke665 said:


> Yes that's been my experience. IMO it also produces a crisper color, and minimizes skin redness.



That has to do with the inherent colour temp shift of the white vs the silver and possibly the UV from your strobes. There is no physical reason why a white surfaced modifier would add red or conversely a silver modifier would add blue if they we’re properly calibrated flash tubes and modifiers. Not all modifiers are created equal and some less than models have colour issues.


----------



## smoke665 (Nov 3, 2020)

JBPhotog said:


> That has to do with the inherent colour temp shift of the white vs the silver and possibly the UV from your strobes. There is no physical reason why a white surfaced modifier would add red or conversely a silver modifier would add blue if they we’re properly calibrated flash tubes and modifiers. Not all modifiers are created equal and some less than models have colour issues.



No I agree there's nothing added, I see it more as a difference in red reflectivity. 

Have you used a 72" umbrella? Despite the fact that there are several pros who use them, I'm not finding much on the internet regarding their use. I did find this, which interestingly is a silver  Simple One Light Beauty Setup With A Parabolic Umbrella | Anita Sadowska


----------



## JBPhotog (Nov 3, 2020)

Yes I own two 72” white umbrellas with black backing and I have outer diffusion for them. Not often used but they do offer a different look. As far as examples, look no further than Annie Leibovitz who used large umbrellas with diffusion for a number of years. BTW, they were white interior umbrellas.


----------



## smoke665 (Nov 3, 2020)

@JBPhotog  Just the person I need to talk to. I also ordered the diffusion sock for it. When using the large umbrella, I've heard that you need upwards of double the power/strobe output vs a smaller modifier. Did you find this to be true? Also they seem to be working with distance to the subject at around 8-10 ft. Is this a good distance to start with? Finally I've seen a lot of photographers actually standing in front of the light which seems wrong to me, but they claim it doesn't have any negative effects. Opinions???

I totally forgot about Annie Leibovitz, thanks for the reminder.


----------



## JBPhotog (Nov 3, 2020)

Hmm, I have never really been too concerned with power loss since the reason I use a large modifier is to light a larger area or provide a really soft illumination. You can expect to see about a 1 stop loss with diffusion with the caveat it all depends on the density of your diffusion. FWIW, Leibovitz used more than one layer of diffusion when she used the Photek Softlighters.

When using the 7' umbrella I start with what look am I attempting to achieve, that alone determines how far it is from the subject. That pesky inverse square law comes into play. For example if I want a large modifier to wash the entire subject with rapid fall off, it is close to them and if I want to lower the fall off rate, I can pull it back and it still lights the entire subject, which may be too much spill, YMMV. The one advantage if you are attempting to even out the illumination of the background a 7' can do this.

Standing in front of the umbrella is a good way to achieve on axis fill when used with additional off axis key lights, an effective way to fill in shadows while not creating any cross shadows. Or if you want the flat light look, use it exclusively, I don't do this in my work BTW, it is often used in fashion though.


----------



## mrca (Nov 3, 2020)

No question, the white shoot through with black back.  If you want big, you probabley want soft.  But it is a multi tasker.  I use mine out doors to have someone hold between subj and sun to soften the harsh mid day light.   Can be a shoot through or bounce umbrella in studio.  I have the AB parabolics and the silver produces a spot light effect and I have used it high, aimed down on a subject to create that spot light.  The AB's are cheap enough to get one of each.


----------



## smoke665 (Nov 4, 2020)

mrca said:


> No question, the white shoot through with black back.  If you want big, you probabley want soft.  But it is a multi tasker.  I use mine out doors to have someone hold between subj and sun to soften the harsh mid day light.   Can be a shoot through or bounce umbrella in studio.  I have the AB parabolics and the silver produces a spot light effect and I have used it high, aimed down on a subject to create that spot light.  The AB's are cheap enough to get one of each.



That was my choice, but unfortunately was on backorder and no idea of when it would be in stock. I went with the white with black back, once I see how I like it, will probably add both the translucent and the silver.

I like dramatic shots with shadow definition, but I also like a lighter feel with even lighting. From all I've read this will produce that. How about in studio, have you used the translucent? Supposedly it can really produce a really soft light up close.


----------



## smoke665 (Nov 5, 2020)

So the new modifier came in. Sock won't be here till Saturday. Hmmm. Wonder what DW would say about building that new studio?


----------



## JBPhotog (Nov 5, 2020)

Looks good, which brand did you go with?


----------



## smoke665 (Nov 5, 2020)

@JBPhotog it's a mid line Glow. Seems to be well made.


----------



## ac12 (Nov 8, 2020)

smoke665 said:


> So the new modifier came in. Sock won't be here till Saturday. Hmmm. Wonder what DW would say about building that new studio?
> View attachment 199893



That pic shows what I was told, when I was going to get a 60 inch umbrella.
The space a LARGE umbrella takes up is significant.  It WILL get in the way, unless you have a studio with a high ceiling and lots of horizontal space.
In hind sight, I was glad I took the salesman's recommendation to use a 42 inch umbrella.  I did not have the space to comfortably use a large umbrella.


----------



## smoke665 (Nov 9, 2020)

@ac12  My studio space shares double duty with a F350 dually, so when it gets relegated to the barn I have a nice size area with 12' ceilings. Don't think space will be an issue.


----------



## mrca (Nov 9, 2020)

I can clamp the diffusion panel from a 6.5' square scrim and double diffuse it or roll  the scrim a few inches in front of it.  Be aware, these puppies are more fragile than most other modifiers.   Out doors a 6 footer is a sail, like this


7' octa.


----------



## smoke665 (Nov 13, 2020)

@mrca depending on the wind just about anything can become a sail, but it would have to be a "dead calm" day for me to consider the 7' outside. My nerves would be shot.


----------

