# Film scanners



## photocist (Mar 4, 2011)

So I need to get a film scanner! I have done some research but for some reason my efforts have come up empty handed. No commercial store seems to carry them, and no employee at any store (photograhpy store, best buy, office max) know anything about them! WTF?!

I dont want to break the bank, of course. I have read about the canoscan 8800f which i found on craigslist for 80 bucks, and I think i would pick it up if its available still. 

I would like to hear what other people think about scanners. I need it to scan 35mm negatives and medium format (120 film). Any input is appreciated. Thanks!


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## PASM (Mar 4, 2011)

Canon LiDE 700F for 35mm.


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## Josh66 (Mar 4, 2011)

Film is dead, didn't you get the memo?  

(I shoot film primarily)

I use an Epson V600...  For 35mm and 120, I would be looking at Epson...  I haven't used a Canon scanner in a long time (and none of them were film scanners), but I've been happy with Epson.  The V600 is very reasonably priced. V700/750 if you need to scan anything larger than 120.


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## photocist (Mar 4, 2011)

O|||||||O said:


> Film is dead, didn't you get the memo?
> 
> (I shoot film primarily)
> 
> I use an Epson V600...  For 35mm and 120, I would be looking at Epson...  I haven't used a Canon scanner in a long time (and none of them were film scanners), but I've been happy with Epson.  The V600 is very reasonably priced. V700/750 if you need to scan anything larger than 120.


 Film may be dying, but its living to the fullest in my hands! 

Ill check that scanner out. Any ideas where I might be able to buy it in person, rather than online? or any film scanner, for that matter...


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## Josh66 (Mar 4, 2011)

photocist said:


> Any ideas where I might be able to buy it in person, rather than online? or any film scanner, for that matter...


 If Best Buy, CompUSA, et al. don't have it - I have no idea...  I bought mine on Newegg.


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## Alpha (Mar 4, 2011)

Call the local shops. I feel like I've seen used scanners occasionally at Looking Glass Photo in Berkeley. You could also try Calumet, Gassers, or Photography Supply in the city.


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## usayit (Mar 4, 2011)

No doubt.... V700 is one of the best flatbeds out there..

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/digital-discussion-q/62119-epson-v700-experiences.html

If you are on a budget, the previous 4990 was a known good performer (no direct experience).   If your patient, you could wait and keep an eye out for Epson direct refurbs.  The v700 was listed a while ago but I just check and no longer:

Clearance Epson Scanners - Epson Clearance Center - Epson America, Inc.

Prices are pretty good and I was 100% happy with an R-D1 purchased through them and shipped from Japan direct.


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## djacobox372 (Mar 6, 2011)

I own a epson V700, it's fantastic!  I can scan 24 frames of 35mm at once, 8 frames of 6x4.5 medium format, 6 frames of 6x6, or two 4x5 sheets.

I can't stand the dedicated 35mm scanners--owned one and it was a huge time waster, as you have to feed each frame in one by one.

The less expensive V600 is similar, but has a smaller scan area. 

V600:







V700 film carriers (notice that you can scan twice as much, and do 4x5 as well).






The only issue with flatbed scanning of film is getting the film carrier height just right.  I used strips of tape on the base of the carrier to achieve optimal sharpness.


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## Josh66 (Mar 6, 2011)

djacobox372 said:


> The only issue with flatbed scanning of film is getting the film carrier height just right.  I used strips of tape on the base of the carrier to achieve optimal sharpness.


 
How bad does a 'badly focused' scan look?  I have never tried to change the height of the tray, and I haven't really noticed any sharpness issues.  Maybe I'm just not being picky enough?  Or not looking for the right thing...?

When I look at my scans at 100% they're not tack sharp, but it's not really any different than digital at 100% as far as sharpness goes.  Even badly curled strips look OK...


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## usayit (Mar 6, 2011)

Custom film holders for Agfa, Microtek, Canon and Epson film scanners.


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## Josh66 (Mar 7, 2011)

Here's one I shot, developed, and scanned today:



03071103 by J E, on Flickr

And here's a 100% crop from it:



03071103 - 100percent crop by J E, on Flickr
(3200 dpi scan.  Scanned on an Epson V600 using iScan for Linux.)

It was curled a little when I scanned it too (I would say about a 60 or 70 inch radius - what I would consider a mild curl).  It doesn't look too bad to me, do you think that's from the tray not being the right height?

I always just assumed that it was CA (which would look like this, in B&W)...


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## djacobox372 (Mar 7, 2011)

O|||||||O said:


> djacobox372 said:
> 
> 
> > The only issue with flatbed scanning of film is getting the film carrier height just right.  I used strips of tape on the base of the carrier to achieve optimal sharpness.
> ...



Looking at your examples, the focus doesn't look bad, but it could be better.  Although if the film is badly curled it makes it next to impossible to get perfect.

The grain should be distinct and not splochy. Here's an example of close to perfect focus (zero sharpening applied in post, "low" sharpening applied during the scan--most of my film scans don't nail it as dead on as this one):






Here's your example for comparison; notice how the grain in your image is more splochy looking, this means the focus isn't perfect--it's close enough to keep most of the detail, but not ideal.





original image:






I don't know about the V600, but he V700 carriers came with little "feet  tabs" that adjust carrier height to one of three settings (low = no  tabs, high = tabs in one direction, medium = tabs turned around).  

When I first used my V700 I noticed it's sharpness was not nearly as good as my old dedicated slide scanner. I attributed this to film carrier height. 

To  discover the perfect height I scanned with all three settings and  compared.  I noticed that the medium and high settings looked about the  same, which led me to believe that the ideal setting was somewhere  between the two.  So I stuck a business card under the feet of tabs in  the medium setting, and the sharpness was better.  I then added a few  layers of masking tape to the bottom of the medium tabs to match the  business card thickness. 

If I'm scanning badly curled film I make sure to check the sharpness and adjust the tabs to whatever works best.


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## photocist (Mar 7, 2011)

So I have narrowed it down to the v500 or the v600. is the v600 worth an extra 30-40 bucks?


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## Josh66 (Mar 8, 2011)

djacobox372 said:


> I don't know about the V600, but he V700 carriers came with little "feet  tabs" that adjust carrier height to one of three settings (low = no  tabs, high = tabs in one direction, medium = tabs turned around).
> 
> When I first used my V700 I noticed it's sharpness was not nearly as good as my old dedicated slide scanner. I attributed this to film carrier height.
> 
> ...


 The V600 carriers do not have that.  I'll play around with it this week and see what I can come up with...  I never thought to judge sharpness by the grain - I was always just looking at the edges of stuff.


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## benhasajeep (Mar 8, 2011)

I was going to mention this about holder height.  I have had an Epson 4990pro since it was introduced and at first was on the fence about its quality.  I then read about others adjusting the height of the carriers.  I did a couple hours of experimenting one day, and like others added tape to the film holders.  Made a pretty big difference in sharpness in my opinion.  So, now I am always carefull when moving the holder around so I don't knock off the tape tabs.


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## benhasajeep (Mar 8, 2011)

I don't see much difference between the model specs from what Epson gives you.  Other than the 500 is a little faster then the 600???  If you really got into the manuals might find some differences.  It does appear the 600 has a slightly larger transparency capacity.  As it's MF holder is for 2 frames, while the 500 appears to be just 1.


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## Josh66 (Mar 8, 2011)

The window on the medium format carrier for the V500 is smaller.  Other than that, they appear to be identical.  I'm sure they ship with different software, but other than that...

You could buy the carrier for the V600 and use it in the V500 no problem.


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edit

OK, I'm going to mess around with putting tape on the carrier today...  How big would you say a 'step' would be?  I don't want to do a scan every 1 layer of tape if it takes 10 layers of tape to see a difference...


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## djacobox372 (Mar 8, 2011)

benhasajeep said:


> I don't see much difference between the model specs from what Epson gives you.  Other than the 500 is a little faster then the 600???  If you really got into the manuals might find some differences.  It does appear the 600 has a slightly larger transparency capacity.  As it's MF holder is for 2 frames, while the 500 appears to be just 1.


 
I think the difference between all the models is scan area, the more expensive models allow you to scan larger film (4x5 and 8x10), or more frames of the smaller sizes.


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## Josh66 (Mar 8, 2011)

djacobox372 said:


> benhasajeep said:
> 
> 
> > I don't see much difference between the model specs from what Epson gives you.  Other than the 500 is a little faster then the 600???  If you really got into the manuals might find some differences.  It does appear the 600 has a slightly larger transparency capacity.  As it's MF holder is for 2 frames, while the 500 appears to be just 1.
> ...


 The V500 & V600 have the same scan area though.  It seems to me that the V600 is just a newer version of the V500 - only difference being the MF carrier and probably newer included software.

The actual scanning unit in the top is the same size though - it would have to be since they both have the same 35mm capacity.


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## djacobox372 (Mar 8, 2011)

O|||||||O said:


> djacobox372 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know about the V600, but he V700 carriers came with little "feet  tabs" that adjust carrier height to one of three settings (low = no  tabs, high = tabs in one direction, medium = tabs turned around).
> ...



Using the grain to focus is just a habit I adopted from making prints--focus aids in print making are actually called "grain focusers." The grain is independent from other factors that might affect focus, like depth of field and diffraction. 

You probably can't lower your carrier, but you could experiment with raising it a little bit--just cut out some paper to sit it on, and see if focus improves.


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## Josh66 (Mar 8, 2011)

djacobox372 said:


> O|||||||O said:
> 
> 
> > djacobox372 said:
> ...


 I actually started a new thread on this so we didn't have to hi-jack this one further...

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/film-discussion-q/237791-adjusting-film-carrier-height.html

I couldn't lower the carrier, but raising the lid does the same thing - see the other thread for my results...


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## djacobox372 (Mar 8, 2011)

O|||||||O said:


> http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/film-discussion-q/237791-adjusting-film-carrier-height.html
> 
> I couldn't lower the carrier, but raising the lid does the same thing - see the other thread for my results...



Yeah, I responded to that thread.  However my response is relative to this thread as well, as it appears that the V700 just produces sharper results due to it being a higher native resolution scanner (optical density is higher).  

So it looks like scan-area isn't the only reason to pay extra for the V700.


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