# chinon cp-5 twin program help



## cassidy (Sep 12, 2014)

Im not sure if this is the correct forum.

I purchased the camera from antique store but we were unable to remove the battery case; I bought the camera anyway seeing that it was lower price and everything else else was intact. I got home and pried it off to find that the previous owner had left the batteries in -really old batteries- and it had leaked and dried mounds of acid. I scraped it off removed the batteries and soaked the case in a glass of baking soda and water to get off the remaining acid and to neutralize. I let it dry, replaced the batteries with new ones and tested the camera to see if the batteries worked; the batteries were connecting and the shutter worked as well.

I then loaded film and released the shutter a few times to wind the film up. But today I went out to take pictures and nothing happened. At that point when I looked through the lens the adjustment settings that should light up came on as they should, but the shutter wouldn't release when I pressed the button. The lever pulled back all the way, but it didnt work.

After re-reading the manual a few times I decided to just take out the film and just reload it to see if anything would change but as I tried to roll it back in the lever for that got very rough and it wouldnt budge it to roll itself back . I had to open the camera and take the film out with myself-- the small points that go through the indents on the edge of the film and caught on the film and had actually nearly torn it.
I removed the battery case again and reattached it because even though the film was out, the shutter wouldnt go off.  But now the batteries aren't responding to the camera which im sure is because all the damage done by the acid, but it doesn't explain why that when they WERE connecting, that the shutter wouldnt work and I couldn't take any pictures.

I haven't even touched the camera since i put the film in and somehow it now that the batteries aren't reacting I obviously can't get the shutter to realse now. I don't understand how it could have jammed the film itself while being on my shelf? I Googled and read about the power winder coupler and mine is diagonal, not straight? Is this a possible problem?


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## baturn (Sep 12, 2014)

Does the camera work without the auto winder? My CE4 requires 3 button type batteries installed in the body itself. Pretty sure the batteries in the winder only power the winder.


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## vintagesnaps (Sep 12, 2014)

You could try some Deox-it and see if another cleaning helps I suppose but I don't know if it will. The only thing I can think is that removing the residue from the old battery got it connecting and working briefly but you could be right that there might be too much damage for it to keep working.

I've had a camera jam and the sprockets started to tear the film along the edges, the lever was cocked, maybe that's what happened to yours so when you got it back out it was jammed in that position (tension was tight and wouldn't release). Not sure with a battery operated camera how/if you can get it to release.


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## timor (Sep 12, 2014)

"*but as I tried to roll it back in the lever for that got very rough and it wouldnt budge it to roll itself back . I had to open the camera and take the film out with myself-- the small points that go through the indents on the edge of the film and caught on the film and had actually nearly torn it*."
Did you actually pushed in the rewind button at the bottom of the camera ?


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## baturn (Sep 12, 2014)

good catch,timor I forgot to add that in my post


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## timor (Sep 12, 2014)

There is another question. I can't find that in instruction booklet, but camera with so many batteries should have on/off switch for power. However who knows. Better check your batteries, maybe there is some drainage of power, maybe even some short on batteries contacts.


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## cassidy (Sep 12, 2014)

baturn said:


> Does the camera work without the auto winder? My CE4 requires 3 button type batteries installed in the body itself. Pretty sure the batteries in the winder only power the winder.


My camera only has the one battery compartment on the side... Im not aware of any other parts where batteries are actually installed into the camera. as far as I know the camera can only work when batteries are connected.


timor said:


> There is another question. I can't find that in instruction booklet, but camera with so many batteries should have on/off switch for power. However who knows. Better check your batteries, maybe there is some drainage of power, maybe even some short on batteries contacts.


 I actually switched the batteries around and now its giving power to the camera... I did originally press the button to reel in the film but nothing happened. I feel like batteries are "hitting-missing". now that the camera has power again (yes, there is a power switch on the front) I. Still not able to get the camera to to release the shudder


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## timor (Sep 12, 2014)

cassidy said:


> I actually switched the batteries around and now its giving power to the camera... I did originally press the button to reel in the film but nothing happened. I feel like batteries are "hitting-missing". now that the camera has power again (yes, there is a power switch on the front) I. Still not able to get the camera to to release the shudder


Here we have to be quite specific. "Hitting" that bottom button or rather pin does nothing apparent. Pushing that pin in releases the sprocket wheel you can see inside the camera, which leads the film onto take up spool. It turns only in one way, towards the take up spool, so you can't move the film backwards. After pushing that pin in you have to manually, using a crank on the left side of the camera (which is usually folded in) to wind back the film into cassette. I don't know, what you were doing there, maybe you were thinking, there is an automatic rewind, I don't know. (You said: nothing happened. What should ?) Maybe in meantime you moved a bit the winding leaver. That's enough for the pin to jump out and block rewinding.
Now, maybe batteries are too weak to release a shutter (not shudder), or the shutter is not cocked.


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## baturn (Sep 12, 2014)

cassidy said:


> My camera only has the one battery compartment on the side... Im not aware of any other parts where batteries are actually installed into the camera. as far as I know the camera can only work when batteries are connected.
> 
> I actually switched the batteries around and now its giving power to the camera... I did originally press the button to reel in the film but nothing happened. I feel like batteries are "hitting-missing". now that the camera has power again (yes, there is a power switch on the front) I. Still not able to get the camera to to release the shudder



When you said "battery case" and "pried it off" , I thought you were referring to the winder that fits on the bottom of the body. Only other help I can offer is, If you don't have one you can find online manuals by googling. Sorry I couldn't be more help.


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## cassidy (Sep 12, 2014)

timor said:


> Here we have to be quite specific. "Hitting" that bottom button or rather pin does nothing apparent. Pushing that pin in releases the sprocket wheel you can see inside the camera, which leads the film onto take up spool. It turns only in one way, towards the take up spool, so you can't move the film backwards. After pushing that pin in you have to manually, using a crank on the left side of the camera (which is usually folded in) to wind back the film into cassette. I don't know, what you were doing there, maybe you were thinking, there is an automatic rewind, I don't know. (You said: nothing happened. What should ?) Maybe in meantime you moved a bit the winding leaver. That's enough for the pin to jump out and block rewinding.
> Now, maybe batteries are too weak to release a shutter (not shudder), or the shutter is not cocked.


Ahh yes sorry let me clarify better now that I'm at my computer and off my phone: What's happening is I cocked the shutter (forgive me for misspelling yikes) all the way, so at the moment it is at the phase where I should be able to press the button on top and release to take a picture. However, the lever is loose and pressing the button is not doing anything.

When I went to remove the film I did press the button on the bottom of the camera to release the film, then I began to rewind it into the case however that's where I found it extremely difficult to rewind to the point where I didn't feel comfortable forcing the camera on. So I wasn't expecting it to rewind the film itself; I followed what the manual explained to do but the film appeared to have gotten snagged somehow. I either entered the film incorrectly or something else went wrong--I had a friend with me at the time and she didn't notice any issues with how the film was loaded.

I would think that the batteries are keeping the shutter but these batteries are brand-new and the shutter was working 100% fine a few days ago without any complications. I think the batteries are not staying in place all the way (because when I first put them in the camera was not responding) but after fixing them, the camera worked fine. Right now they are in correctly, and yet the camera is not responding to *only* the shutter.


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## cassidy (Sep 12, 2014)

baturn said:


> When you said "battery case" and "pried it off" , I thought you were referring to the winder that fits on the bottom of the body. Only other help I can offer is, If you don't have one you can find online manuals by googling. Sorry I couldn't be more help.


Yes I have the manual off of a trusted website. The compartment is off the side/front of the body and is held on by one large round screw; I had to pry it off because even the screw was out, the acid from the old batteries had settled at the bottom and acted as if it were glue. No damage was done when I removed it. So yeah this camera doesn't have the kind of battery insertion you described, but thank you anyway for giving input !


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## vintagesnaps (Sep 12, 2014)

If the shutter button is loose, then I'd think that could be what's not tripping the shutter.


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## cassidy (Sep 12, 2014)

vintagesnaps said:


> If the shutter button is loose, then I'd think that could be what's not tripping the shutter.


I'm willing to try and see if it's the problem although it feels stable... how can I see about checking the tightness ; there's a hole in the center of the button, is that where to tighten it ?


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## timor (Sep 12, 2014)

Shutter release has safety lock. Find it and check if it is not engaged.
Check, if sprocket is turning freely both ways or only in direction of take up spool. Check, if film advance lever is is cocked 100%. Sometimes it is a matter of 1 mm to push a little harder. Sometimes 95% cocked levers  will feel loose.


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## cassidy (Sep 12, 2014)

timor said:


> Shutter release has safety lock. Find it and check if it is not engaged.
> Check, if sprocket is turning freely both ways or only in direction of take up spool. Check, if film advance lever is is cocked 100%. Sometimes it is a matter of 1 mm to push a little harder. Sometimes 95% cocked levers  will feel loose.


Safety lock is not on.
I checked the sprocket and it had motion in both directions.
The film advancer was not 100% after ^ checking the sprocket, and so now that is cranking up normally and is no longer loose. but the shutter button is still not working.


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## timor (Sep 12, 2014)

cassidy said:


> Safety lock is not on.
> I checked the sprocket and it had motion in both directions.
> The film advancer was not 100% after ^ checking the sprocket, and so now that is cranking up normally and is no longer loose. but the shutter button is still not working.


Now it doesn't look good. Advance lever now shouldn't move. Try turning the sprocket with your finger towards the take up spool until resistance. If there is no resistance something is mechanically wrong.
When you move film advance lever, what is doing shutter curtain ? Is it moving ?


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## cassidy (Sep 12, 2014)

timor said:


> Now it doesn't look good. Advance lever now shouldn't move. Try turning the sprocket with your finger towards the take up spool until resistance. If there is no resistance something is mechanically wrong.
> When you move film advance lever, what is doing shutter curtain ? Is it moving ?


There is no resistance when I turn the sprocket.
When I move the advance lever the sprocket and the spool both turn, but the curtain doesn't do a thing.


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## timor (Sep 13, 2014)

It doesn't look good, some spring is not engaging. Sprocket should firmly stopped after permitting about 37 mm of film to advance. Next frame. Without it shutter, which is apparently cocked, is not permitted to fire. Now come back the problem from rewinding the first film, something didn't worked out properly and possibly some damage occurred. Not, that it is your fault, just old camera and quite complicated to. Try to push the release pin once more, like for rewind and see, if is  still engaging properly, if it stays pushed in. If it does just turn the sprocket with your finger towards the take up spool, see, if the pin jumps out, see, if sprocket will stop, if it does, see, if you can fire the shutter. If it will not help tell me again... how much did you pay for this camera ?


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## compur (Sep 13, 2014)

It was a mistake to use baking soda to clean the camera's battery holder. Baking soda is for cleaning up car battery contacts. Car batteries are acid-based and baking soda is alkaline so the soda neutralizes the acid of the car battery residue. Don't use soda on camera equipment.

Camera batteries, the types that leak and make a mess in cameras, are the opposite -- they're _alkaline _based so you clean up the mess with a mild acid such as plain white vinegar. When you apply the vinegar the mess will bubble up. Keep applying the vinegar until the bubbling stops and the area looks clean (or as clean is it seems to get). Then you may also need to scrub or grind the contacts if there is any remaining residue or if the contacts were physically corroded or pitted by the leakage.

When you used soda on your battery compartment it didn't neutralize anything because the leakage mess was alkaline and so is the soda. It may have seemed to clean the area but the metal is probably still coated with a layer of residue which could interfere with the current flow from the batteries. It takes more current to power a shutter than to power the meter indicators so that may be the cause of that mystery -- the dirty battery contacts offer too much electrical resistance to allow enough current for the shutter but enough for the meter.

There may be other issues with that particular camera but you would have to properly clean the battery area first and go from there. You may also need to try a _fresh _set of batteries (the set you used before may now be drained).


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## cassidy (Sep 13, 2014)

T


compur said:


> It was a mistake to use baking soda to clean the camera's battery holder. Baking soda is for cleaning up car battery contacts. Car batteries are acid-based and baking soda is alkaline so the soda neutralizes the acid of the car battery residue. Don't use soda on camera equipment.
> 
> Camera batteries, the types that leak and make a mess in cameras, are the opposite -- they're _alkaline _based so you clean up the mess with a mild acid such as plain white vinegar. When you apply the vinegar the mess will bubble up. Keep applying the vinegar until the bubbling stops and the area looks clean (or as clean is it seems to get). Then you may also need to scrub or grind the contacts if there is any remaining residue or if the contacts were physically corroded or pitted by the leakage.
> 
> ...


This is very helpful... it was suggested to me by someone who deals a lot with mechanical-type things to use baking soda but it was obviously too hasty of me to not do a little more research into that. So I will definitely clean the case again then put new batteries in and see where the camera is from there.


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## cassidy (Sep 13, 2014)

timor said:


> It doesn't look good, some spring is not engaging. Sprocket should firmly stopped after permitting about 37 mm of film to advance. Next frame. Without it shutter, which is apparently cocked, is not permitted to fire. Now come back the problem from rewinding the first film, something didn't worked out properly and possibly some damage occurred. Not, that it is your fault, just old camera and quite complicated to. Try to push the release pin once more, like for rewind and see, if is  still engaging properly, if it stays pushed in. If it does just turn the sprocket with your finger towards the take up spool, see, if the pin jumps out, see, if sprocket will stop, if it does, see, if you can fire the shutter. If it will not help tell me again... how much did you pay for this camera ?


Hmm nothing.
I actually kept the ruined film and trimmed off the area that had been torn; I reloaded that film to see if I could properly then rewind it back and it worked completely fine this time around without anything becoming jammed or torn. Camera still isn't working, but at least I don't think there is anything wrong with the area of loading film...I'm going to try cleaning the battery compartment properly to see if there is a difference. 
I paid $30.00 for this camera, all sales final where it was purchased.


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## timor (Sep 13, 2014)

Off course there is no more problems with rewinding the film. Sprocket is moving freely either way. The pin at the bottom, is it in or out ?


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## cassidy (Sep 13, 2014)

The reason I put the film back inside was to see if I was laoding it correctly, if I had perhaps put it in wrong the first time and caused some issues.

However! Camera is fixed

I re-cleaned the battery case, applied new batteries. On top of that I removed the bottom of the camera and took a few pieces off inside the camera, reassembled after cleaning those pieces. Film shutter began to work properly after everything was put back-together and now there is film inside and the camera appears to be sound... hopefully. For now, at least. Thank you for the responses.


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## timor (Sep 13, 2014)

Glad to hear that.


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## Mike_E (Sep 14, 2014)

timor said:


> Glad to hear that.


Glad it's working!

One other thing you might try is putting a small bit of Di-electric grease on the contacts.  This will help maintain good contact.  Battery corrosion is a beast to get rid of permanently.


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## cassidy (Sep 14, 2014)

Mike_E said:


> Glad it's working!
> 
> One other thing you might try is putting a small bit of Di-electric grease on the contacts.  This will help maintain good contact.  Battery corrosion is a beast to get rid of permanently.


 Thank you for the suggestion ! Yeah the batteries sometimes lose connectivity and I  have to take them out, then put them back in. ...Its a pain .


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