# Photo Shoot on a Bus--Advice Sought



## sm4him (May 13, 2013)

Most of you reading this probably already know that I am not a pro, I don't play one on TV and I'm not really seeking to become one.  I've not even done much portrait photography--I prefer birds, and bugs, and flowers and abstracts.
Most of my photography is for fun--shooting what *I* want to shoot.

That said, I *am* the "staff photographer" for my employer, a public transit system.  I sort of fell into this duty while I still just had a P&S because I was still better than anyone else there with a camera and after all--we're public transit, i.e. non-profit--we're not gonna be shelling out the bucks for really professional work.  Over the last two years, since I got my DSLR, the photography has taken more and more of an "official" role in my position. In fact, now I'm usually introduced by our General Manager as a Transit Information Specialist AND the company photographer. I've produced two calendars for all our employees, done a couple of head shots and did all the photography for a major request for service bid we put out.  I've also had a couple of pictures appear in national trade magazines, one as a cover photo.

All of that to say, while I know I don't often admit it...I don't s*ck at this. 
But I'm still NOT a professional by any stretch of the imagination.  But my boss and our general manager both seem to really like the results I get.

Okay, so: 

We are about to do a pretty extensive ad campaign with some grant money. This will involve newspaper and magazine ads, giant bus wrap advertisements, possibly some billboards, and a video. The video doesn't matter, I'll have no involvement with it.

The last time we did an ad campaign, three years ago, we hired a professional photographer and a professional designer.

This time, my boss has asked if *I* would be interested in doing the shoot.

IMPORTANT: I *do* have the option to say NO, without it really affecting anything I may be asked to do in the future or job security, etc.  And my first inclination was to say no. But I gotta admit--I'm intrigued by the challenge of whether I could do it or not.

What's Involved:

We will be doing ALL the photo shoots, or the majority of them, ON a bus. The ads will be featured people who ride transit regularly and will show some of the things they do to pass the time while riding on the bus, instead of having to sit in traffic. Examples might be someone sitting on the bus reading, or watching a video on their smartphone with their headphones in, working on their computer, etc.

One of the challenges is that I have no idea what kind of ambient lighting we'd have on any given day of the shoot--might be really bright and sunny, or dark and raining.  The other challenge is--oh yeah, I'd be doing the photo shoot ON A BUS. 

What I'd like opinions on:
--Should I do it? Or should I turn it down and leave this to professionals?
--What's even involved with producing images for a billboard or a bus wrap--what kind of image size, resolution etc would I likely need?

--IF I do this, what kind of setup would you recommend for doing a shoot on a city bus?  I have a D7000, and a 50mm f/1.8 lens. The only other wide lens I have is my 18-55 kit lens; everything else I have is at least 70mm. I do have access to two speed lights, I have a couple of reflectors, and a fairly small softbox (don't remember the size of it, maybe 24" or so) and light stands.

I'm guessing I'd probably need to rent another wider lens--what would you suggest? How would you go about this, if you were doing the shoot?

I'm thinking about suggesting a trial run using an employee as a model. Then, if both my boss and I think the results are promising, I might actually agree to do it.

I know that was a lot of rambling and I probably left out important information, but any opinions would be appreciated before I give my boss an answer about this!


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## runnah (May 13, 2013)

I like the idea of the trial run. 

As for gear... yes, bring everything you can possibly get your hands on. 

You are going to want to use flashes 100% so you don't get blown out windows while properly exposing your subjects. I don't know what the inside looks like but if it is metal of any kind you are going to want to be careful of reflections and hotspots. 

Is the bus going to be in a garage or parked outside?


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## sm4him (May 13, 2013)

runnah said:


> I like the idea of the trial run.
> 
> As for gear... yes, bring everything you can possibly get your hands on.
> 
> ...



Good question and something I'll add to the list to ask about, but I'm guessing the bus will be outside since the idea is that these are people actually commuting to work or school.

There IS probably some metal to take into consideration--poles for people to hold while standing and that sort of thing. The seats are fabric but there may be some metal on the edges of them as well.

If I were to rent a lens, what might be a good one to go with, in addition to the 50mm f/1.8 I already have?


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## runnah (May 13, 2013)

sm4him said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> > I like the idea of the trial run.
> ...




I guess it depends on what type of shots they are looking for. If you want the whole bus full type of shot you will need something wide, but not wide enough to cause major distortion. You could get away with a 50mm for shots when you are either at the front or back of the bust shooting a person in the middle seats. But if you are looking for a side on view you'd need something wider.


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## orljustin (May 13, 2013)

I would let them hire a pro who knows what he's doing.  If everything doesn't go right, and you do a terrible job, they might not be so happy with you.  For my "real job", I'd want to keep my employer happy with me.


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## vintagesnaps (May 13, 2013)

You seem to have a good head on your shoulders and enough good sense to be realistic about it. If you can go out and do some test shots that might clinch the decision. 

I would think if the photos are going to be enlarged to that size they'd need to be good and sharp, and I'd think the concern inside a bus would be the lighting. Maybe the test shots would let you know if this is something within your capabilities. 

At least at work they seem willing to work with you or go in another direction for this project, so that would seem to somewhat take the pressure off, but it does sound like a big project and maybe more responsibility or higher expectations than usual. You might need to trust your instincts in making the decision.


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## sm4him (May 13, 2013)

orljustin said:


> I would let them hire a pro who knows what he's doing.  If everything doesn't go right, and you do a terrible job, they might not be so happy with you.  For my "real job", I'd want to keep my employer happy with me.



I'm not honestly very concerned about this. I am quite confident in my working relationship. My boss has seen my work progress--she has, I believe, a very realistic idea of what I have been producing to date and so in that sense, it's like hiring a photographer from their portfolio. If the results are consistent with the portfolio, then you got what you could reasonably expect.

This is also the major reason that I'd go with a "trial run"--we pick a person and shoot them as if it were for the ad campaign--then we both look at the results. If she doesn't like them, she's free to go with a professional instead, no hard feelings on my part. If they make ME decide that I don't have the skills to pull it off, then I can opt out with no hard feelings on her part. I really think being able to do that trial run is a critical element here, and the ONLY way I'd agree to proceed.



vintagesnaps said:


> You seem to have a good head on your shoulders and enough good sense to be realistic about it. If you can go out and do some test shots that might clinch the decision.
> 
> I would think if the photos are going to be enlarged to that size they'd need to be good and sharp, and I'd think the concern inside a bus would be the lighting. Maybe the test shots would let you know if this is something within your capabilities.
> 
> At least at work they seem willing to work with you or go in another direction for this project, so that would seem to somewhat take the pressure off, but it does sound like a big project and maybe more responsibility or higher expectations than usual. You might need to trust your instincts in making the decision.



Yeah, I think the lighting, and the space constraints, are the two BIG issues here.  My instincts? Initially it was, "don't jump in over your head," but since I thought of the "trial run" scenario over the weekend, I've been more and more inclined to at least suggest that we proceed that far. The question is whether we have time to do a trial run and then evaluate them before we need to be shooting for real. My guess is we probably do, but just barely.


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## Derrel (May 13, 2013)

You can probably pull this off. But, the trial run and evaluation is a smart, reasonable suggestion. Billboards are seen from farrrrr away, and have been made for many years with much lower-resolution d-slr's than your D7000. The printer will use a very expensive RIP to up-sample any images to whatever printing resolution is needed. And again, billboard prints are actually fairly LOW-resolution. The appropriate viewing distance is...from 40 to 300 feet...

Anyway, here's what I would suggest: Use flash as the main source of light inside the bus. Do not worry much about the exterior...if it all "blows out" to white, not that big a deal. Have an assistant hold the flash to the left of the subject, aimed downward and across them, so that the shadows fall down and out of the frame. You sit opposite the subject, while he plays Words With Friends on his iPhone; or while she works on her crosswords in one of those little books full of 'em. Try not to be "too wide-angle" with the compositions, but at the same time, you probably want to show at least some of the in-bus environment. I would use a 10-foot PC cord to connect the flash to the camera. And definitely, have an assistant to hold and aim the light. Shoot RAW, low ISO, shoot at f/11 for depth of field.

Is there an art director or supervisor who is in charge of the billboards? You will definitely want to have some art direction. Which "direction" will the subject need to face? Wide images, right??? Or is there a lot of text on the right hand side of the billboard, all stacked?

Do not go "too wide" on the focal length, because at close distances, whatever is closest will appear wayyyyyyy larger than in "real life". Buses are not exactly spacious shooting locations. If you want to do this at a slower, more-controlled kind of pace, perhaps you could shoot this in a bus that is off-duty and is not in motion, and thus get more control over the shooting parameters.


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## sm4him (May 13, 2013)

Okay, I suspect the "should I or shouldn't I" part of this thread was as much about me putting the thoughts down "on paper" where they tend to become more real to me and often help me come to an understanding of what I want to do.

I will probably proceed, on the condition that we can do a trial run and then evaluate whether we are BOTH comfortable with me doing the real shoot.

QUESTIONS:
--Anyone know, generally, what kind of file size and resolution is required to produce an image for a billboard or the side of a city bus? I am assuming the D7000 is capable of producing such an image, since billboards were being produced long before high MP digital cameras came along.

--LENS suggestions would be greatly appreciated!! As I said before, I have a 50mm f/1.8. I'm guessing I'd want to rent something like the 17-55 f/2.8 or 14-24 f/2.8? Is one of those considered any sharper/better than the other generally speaking?  Or should I look at something else? We'll likely have some close shots of a person reading a book, etc, but also some "full body" shots of them sitting on the bus, maybe others in seats around them. There will be a definite limit to how far I can "manually zoom out" so that's why I'm thinking I'm going to want a wider lens as well as the 50mm.

--Come to think of it--could I use my D5100 as a second body so I don't have to change lenses, or should I either stick to the D7000 or rent another one? Again, I'm just thinking about final product here and photos the size of a city bus.

I may have posing questions and other issues later, but that'll depend on what the boss lady actually has in mind.


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## runnah (May 13, 2013)

Oh do research too. Look at similar photos to get an idea. Chances are your clients has seen similar photos and that is what they are looking for.


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## sm4him (May 13, 2013)

Derrel said:


> You can probably pull this off. But, the trial run and evaluation is a smart, reasonable suggestion. Billboards are seen from farrrrr away, and have been made for many years with much lower-resolution d-slr's than your D7000. The printer will use a very expensive RIP to up-sample any images to whatever printing resolution is needed. And again, billboard prints are actually fairly LOW-resolution. The appropriate viewing distance is...from 40 to 300 feet...
> 
> Anyway, here's what I would suggest: Use flash as the main source of light inside the bus. Do not worry much about the exterior...if it all "blows out" to white, not that big a deal. Have an assistant hold the flash to the left of the subject, aimed downward and across them, so that the shadows fall down and out of the frame. You sit opposite the subject, while he plays Words With Friends on his iPhone; or while she works on her crosswords in one of those little books full of 'em. Try not to be "too wide-angle" with the compositions, but at the same time, you probably want to show at least some of the in-bus environment. I would use a 10-foot PC cord to connect the flash to the camera. And definitely, have an assistant to hold and aim the light. Shoot RAW, low ISO, shoot at f/11 for depth of field.
> 
> ...




Thanks, Derrel! I was really hoping you'd chime in--in fact, if you hadn't, I'd have sent you a PM. 

Those are the kinds of things I was looking for. The "art director" in our company is...ME.   I basically rely on the printers to tell me exactly what we need. I have never dealt with doing a billboard or bus wrap though--I'll ask my boss who would be producing them and go from there.

Great suggestions on the setup, thank you. Would you just use one flash?  

I *suspect* that we will use a "staged," off-duty bus and that for the most part, it won't be moving, but again those are details I'll ask about when I talk to the boss lady.  Good point about not going too wide as well--I don't do much wider angle stuff anyway, so I didn't really consider that "larger than life" factor.  Another excellent reason for a trial run!


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## sm4him (May 13, 2013)

runnah said:


> Oh do research too. Look at similar photos to get an idea. Chances are your clients has seen similar photos and that is what they are looking for.




No "client" here other than my boss--but she DOES usually have a pretty good idea of exactly what she wants in that sense, and she has a pretty good eye for what works as well. I think that between what she'll have as an initial idea, and some research on similar photos, that won't be TOO much of an issue.


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## Derrel (May 13, 2013)

Your 18-55 kit lens at f/11 is probably as sharp as ANY other Nikkor lens at f/11. The printer ought to be able to take any high-quality D7000 image and tweak it perfectly. Just light it decently, and save it as a HIGH-quality .TIF or high-quality, full-resolution .PSD file...the printers will know exactly what to do. I do not think there's a need to rent another lens...the 18-55 at f/11 is going to be fine.

Relax....billboards are NOT high-resolution-critical images! Your lenses + flash = ample rez.

http://layersmagazine.com/large-format-printing.html


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## sm4him (May 13, 2013)

Derrel said:


> Your 18-55 kit lens at f/11 is probably as sharp as ANY other Nikkor lens at f/11. The printer ought to be able to take any high-quality D7000 image and tweak it perfectly. Just light it decently, and save it as a HIGH-quality .TIF or high-quality, full-resolution .PSD file...the printers will know exactly what to do. I do not think there's a need to rent another lens...the 18-55 at f/11 is going to be fine.
> 
> Relax....billboards are NOT high-resolution-critical images! Your lenses + flash = ample rez.
> 
> Large-Format Printing « Layers Magazine



Sweet, I really wasn't sure about trying to use the kit lens, but that makes sense.

EXCELLENT article, thanks!


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## tirediron (May 13, 2013)

One other thought...  vehicle wraps can be very odd sizes, so determine the aspect ratio and practice shooting that way so as to minimize "waste".


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## sm4him (May 14, 2013)

tirediron said:


> One other thought...  vehicle wraps can be very odd sizes, so determine the aspect ratio and practice shooting that way so as to minimize "waste".



Ah, that's a very good point too. I think I should be able to find that out before we do the trial run--thanks for the advice.


We're on for the trial run, probably sometime next week.


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