# first real attempt at a photo shoot. C&C please.



## dannylightning (Nov 6, 2014)

I got a second speed light,  stopped at the store and picked up a black bed sheet this morning and hung it up, I got my mom to be my model since no one else seemed to want to do it since they are all scared of a camera for some reason.

Any ways  what do you all think for the first attempt,  I don't know much about lightning and what not but I think these turned out descent except for some shadows from here hair, 

My mom is hard to work with,  you tell he to take one step back and she takes 4 steps back and 2 steps to the right.    or you tell her to turn her body a little to the left and she turns around completely so my main concern is how you guys feel about the lighting.  I dont really know what I am doing here as far as lighting with speed lights.


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## Heather Koch (Nov 6, 2014)

I know probably the same as you about lighting, but from the looks of it, your lights may have been to high?  Creating shadows around her hair.  Did you use two lights? and reflector?


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## dannylightning (Nov 6, 2014)

No reflectors,  I did use 2 lights,   both were roughly at the same height as her head,  the one on the left side of the photo ( her right ) one was slightly higher than her head but not by much.

the light the right side of the photo ( her left) was more beside her instead of in front of her which ma have been the issue with that shadow.


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## Heather Koch (Nov 6, 2014)

dannylightning said:


> No reflectors,  I did use 2 lights,   both were roughly at the same height as her head,  the one on the left side of the photo ( her right ) one was slightly higher than her head but not by much.
> 
> the light the right side of the photo ( her left) was more beside her instead of in front of her which ma have been the issue with that shadow.


Thats probably where the issue lies.  My first indoor photoshoot was with my sister for her senior pictures, 2012.  I used two white sheets and created my own reflector with cardboard and tinfoil.  Used two desk lamps and overhead lights and DIY'ed a diffuser for my on-camera flash.  Worked alright, but lighting is definitely important and getting it right, can be difficult.


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## dannylightning (Nov 6, 2014)

here is a photo of how I had the lights set up,  I think i moved the one on the left hand side of the photo ( her right )   but the other light was in this position.

I got the punching dummy out to do a few test shots on before i had my mom come down.   there is a pool table down there and the one light was setting right in front of the pool table,    If I wanted to have that light more in front of the subject I would need to set the light on the pool table which I could easily do..   maybe i will give that a try.


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## Heather Koch (Nov 6, 2014)

Yeah just test a bunch of different setups and figure out what you like best.


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## dannylightning (Nov 6, 2014)

I also had my cameras flash on I-ttl mode and full power by mistake..      I though it was on manual and the lowest power but I must have change it back and forgot I did that, that might have been a issue as well.    I am gonna give it another go with the lights positioned differently and my on camera flash on the right setting to trigger the speed lights.


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## Heather Koch (Nov 6, 2014)

Sounds like a plan, let me know your positioning and share some results.


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## KmH (Nov 6, 2014)

Light modifiers, like umbrellas and softboxes, make a light source seem larger.
The larger the light source the softer the light is, and the more diffuse shadow edges are.

How Light Modifiers Work | LumiQuest


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## dannylightning (Nov 6, 2014)

Well I got both of my parents down there and that was not easy,   between them blinking,  talking and acting goofy,  most of the photos turned out horrible due to crazy facial expressions.

I moved the lights so they were more in front of them and well I got one pic of them that I like.    still some shadow issue though but in different spots.    a larger light source might help out a bit,  I was thinking about getting a few cheap umbrellas to play around with

there is one more that not that bad either so Ill post that one too


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## pgriz (Nov 6, 2014)

More or less willing subjects?  Check.
Main and fill?  Check.
Now you have to figure out how to tame the harsh shadows and tone down the contrast.  For that you need a larger light area, either by bouncing the light, or using diffusers, or tools such as softboxes or umbrellas.
Then you have to put the shadows in the right place by moving your lights around - it's the shadows that reveal the texture, the shape, and the volume.


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## dannylightning (Nov 6, 2014)

What do you guys thing would be my best option for diffusing the speedlights and not spending allot of money preferably under 100 bucks.

I hear those gary fong  diffusers are pretty nice but I not not sure how they would work for this kind of thing.  2 of them would cost over 100 bucks and unless they are really that good I would not want to spend that much money on them.

A set of umbrellas is what I was thinking of trying since you can get umbrellas pretty cheap but I kind of worry it might spread too much light which might not be a good thing when trying to get a black background like this.


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## tirediron (Nov 6, 2014)

Part of the issue is your lights are too LOW.  Photographic light (for basic portrait lighting) should come from slightly above, since that's where we're used to seeing most things lit from (sun, overhead room lights, etc).  Shooting this sort of work bare-tube is challenging, and you've done a respectable job of it, but an umbrella or two will make it much easier.  When you get them (or raid Mom's Tupperware drawer for a couple of instant speedlight diffusers), raise your key (main) light so it's above and angled slightly down, about 30 degrees off of the lens axis, then bring your fill in just off the lens axis, slightly lower, and  about 2/3 - 1 stop below the key light.  Use that as a starting point and adjust as necessary.  You'll find that you're getting much nicer images with little effort.


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## tirediron (Nov 6, 2014)

dannylightning said:


> ...A set of umbrellas is what I was thinking of trying since you can get umbrellas pretty cheap.


Skip the Fong Dong - it diffuses, but does not make your light source any larger.  A pair of convertible umbrellas in 43" or similar size will do nicely.  For $100, you can pick up good quality Photoflex or similar units, or hit eBay for $10 cheapies just to play with.


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## DanOstergren (Nov 6, 2014)

Your light source is too low. 

Yes, we are used to seeing light from above due to sun and overhead lighting, but I do not believe that is a good reason to set it up that way. Lighting from above the subject helps contour their face, bringing out their cheek bones and giving structure to the face. It essentially mimics a makeup technique called contouring, which is widely used because it looks good. If your lighting can compliment someone in the same way that contouring does, you are on the right track.


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## dannylightning (Nov 6, 2014)

looks like I can get a neewere 40 inch convertible umbrella for around 11 bucks.

Ill see about getting the lights higher but all I have are some old tripods to use as stands for right now.     I had them set down but I think I think I lowered the lights when they set down.   Ill try having the lights above them next time.


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## DGMPhotography (Nov 7, 2014)

Yeah, definitely get some umbrellas. They've done wonders for me, and play with the distance between your light and your subjects. And you'll need the head to attach it if yours don't have the slot for them. As for the background, having them further from it, creating distance, will help prevent light from spilling over. And you can mess with a higher f stop for limiting the light, or halfway closing the umbrellas. There's all sorts of tricks. Just Google studio lighting and try some stuff out! Keep us posted!


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## dannylightning (Nov 7, 2014)

I am already around f/16, 1/200, and ISO 100  to keep the background pitch black and even than its not totally pitch black till I lightly tweak it in lightroom so I probably would not want to go any smaller on the aperture,   If I could get the subject farther from the backdrop but with all the stuff down there in the basement that might not be so easy but I can probably figure something out.  I have watched a few lighting videos but again with all the stuff that is down in the basement its gonna be kind tough getting good light placement but Ill see what I can do.

Since my stands are just tripods and those heads look like they are not going to ft on a tripod I was thinking I could just clamp the umbrellas onto the tripod, I am sure I can figure something out to make it work until I eventually get some real stands for them.


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## JustJazzie (Nov 7, 2014)

(I think, not an expert here!) You will probably need new stands/ brackets to hold the umbrellas anyways. I have quite a few cheep "ebay" light stands and I have some flash point series. Flashppoints air curtain stands were inexpensive, and really, really nice compared to my others! For "ebay stands," my favorite is ravelli. You can find those on amazon as well. They are quite sturdy enough, but not as air cushioned as the flashpoints.
Edit: I saw a video once where someone used these bungee loops with a ball on the end to secure the flash to posts. Do you happen to have any posts in your basement you could rig something up to?

http://www.amazon.com/Keeper-6345-C...F8&qid=1415369103&sr=1-1&keywords=bungee+loop


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## Braineack (Nov 7, 2014)

dannylightning said:


> View attachment 88865



Was this shot with your final camera settings?  You're getting way too much ambient. 

FWIW, that lighting pattern is really bad.  look at the shadows that flash on the right frame is casting.


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## JoeW (Nov 7, 2014)

Lot of lighting options if you're looking to diffuse the light and make it softer and/or spread it around.  And I'm agreed with others--don't get the Fong (or similar knockoff) diffusers--those are only for times when you must use the speed light on-camera and are looking for something to reduce the harshness.

1.  Bounce it off the ceiling.  Or a white wall that's close by.

2.  Get some honking big pieces of foam core (cheap at Home Depot or Staples) and reflect it off that.  Now you also have two big reflectors you can use for other studio work.

3.  You're using sheets.  Hang a sheet and then shoot through that.  Or a translucent curtain (white).  In fact, if you're looking for a DIY lighting setup that is cheap, you can go to Home Depot, buy a kit that runs $30 USD for two halogen work lights with stands.  They are HOT, they need plugs or an extension cord and the light will be harsh (so you'll need a white sheet to shoot through).  But it will heat up a room, serve as a cheap light source, and also work for home repair stuff.

4.  Buy a 5-in-1 reflector.  It will have a diffuser in it that you can shoot through.  And then you have a reflector.

5.  While you're at Home Depot possibly buying the Halogen light set, go to the paint section and buy a translucent plastic tarp.  They're cheap, they're big and they can also be effective scrims for softening light.


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## dannylightning (Nov 7, 2014)

I have some halogen work  lights but I am not a huge fan of those lights,   I am not really trying to get a DIY thing going.  I just want to get some umbrellas for my speed lights and try to work with those.    don't really have much money to spend right now so I would prefer not to buy light stands.     what about a 20 inch umbrella would those be ok..   40 some inches would be huge.

I am not sure what the settings were on that photo  but they were something like f/16 1/200 and iso 100  and yes I still get to much ambient light.  with out the flashes firing I am not getting to much ambient light.   

I went down and played with the lights again and took some selfless.  I definitely need some umbrellas to help with the shadows.  but over all I think I can get some pretty descent pics with this setup,  its hard to set there and adjust lights when taking selflies so I got some shadows and what not..   I have been moving the lights around a bit and was able to get some really good looking lightning in some of the selfies but I did not like how I looked in most of those ones.  

I cranked the clarity up a bit on these ones,


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## dannylightning (Nov 7, 2014)

JustJazzie said:


> (I think, not an expert here!) You will probably need new stands/ brackets to hold the umbrellas anyways. I have quite a few cheep "ebay" light stands and I have some flash point series. Flashppoints air curtain stands were inexpensive, and really, really nice compared to my others! For "ebay stands," my favorite is ravelli. You can find those on amazon as well. They are quite sturdy enough, but not as air cushioned as the flashpoints.
> Edit: I saw a video once where someone used these bungee loops with a ball on the end to secure the flash to posts. Do you happen to have any posts in your basement you could rig something up to?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Keeper-6345-Canopy-Bungee-Pieces/dp/B000G76PLA/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1415369103&sr=1-1&keywords=bungee loop



I just looked up those flash point stands,   those look pretty nice.   I see they have a few different models of those starting at around 30 bucks a stand,  do you know which ones you have exactly.  I may have to pick up a set of those some time soon

Ill post one of those pics the way it came out of the camera..


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## JustJazzie (Nov 7, 2014)

dannylightning said:


> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> > (I think, not an expert here!) You will probably need new stands/ brackets to hold the umbrellas anyways. I have quite a few cheep "ebay" light stands and I have some flash point series. Flashppoints air curtain stands were inexpensive, and really, really nice compared to my others! For "ebay stands," my favorite is ravelli. You can find those on amazon as well. They are quite sturdy enough, but not as air cushioned as the flashpoints.
> ...


I dont. They were a christmas present 3 or 4 years ago. They just say "Ravelli ABS" It came with a backdrop set. (3 muslins, and the stands and cross bar) One of my photo lights came with a TERRIBLE stand so I ended up using it as a background stand and using my Ravelli as a light stand and it worked out pretty good! Especially for something as light as a speed light. I DO prefer my flashpoint stands though. Which are ALSO $30 a piece, free shipping. Though, I can't recommend ordering from Adorama due to a TERRIBLE customer service experience, I have had very good luck with their strobes and light stands, and I am sure the "ebay" light stands would have equally terrible customer service if something goes wrong. ;-)


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## dannylightning (Nov 7, 2014)

well I was asking about the flash point stands that you have,  maybe I did not make that clear, sorry.

I am not sure I really have room for 40 inch umbrellas  with the pool table in the spot its in,  well I guess ill post a pic of the room,    where the punching dummy setting is about  where the person would be standing,  and than you can see where I have the tripods set up that I mount my speed lights on,    if i had big umbrellas on them i think that would be a issue as far as the umbrellas would probably get in the way of the photo

what do you guys think of a 12 inch version of these,   would that help spread the light at least a little bit.  if not I may need to look for some 20 inch umbrellas









.


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## JohnnyWrench (Nov 7, 2014)

Also not an expert, but I wonder how much of that flash is being picked up at f/16. Have you tried wider apertures?


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## dannylightning (Nov 7, 2014)

without the flashes amd those settings  I get nothing but a pure black photo so its letting in plenty of light from the flashes.

when the flashes are on and I go wider than f/16 I no longer have a nice solid black background and I can see all the wrinkles in the back drop.


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## KmH (Nov 7, 2014)

Get 2 of these:
Impact Convertible Umbrella - White Satin with Removable Black Backing - 45"

And 2 of these:
Impact Umbrella Bracket

Tripods can't go high enough, so get 2 of these too:
Impact Air-cushioned Light Stand (Black, 8')


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## dannylightning (Nov 7, 2014)

all of those items say they are unavailable.      I have found some stands and mounts that seem good but my main concern is will 40 + inch umbrellas be to large for the amount of space that I have on one side of the room.


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## DGMPhotography (Nov 10, 2014)

40" is definitely better, and not much more expensive. I think you could find a way to make it work in that room.


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## Rick50 (Nov 10, 2014)

dannylightning said:


> without the flashes amd those settings  I get nothing but a pure black photo so its letting in plenty of light from the flashes.
> 
> when the flashes are on and I go wider than f/16 I no longer have a nice solid black background and I can see all the wrinkles in the back drop.


If you have the speedlites turned down all the way you can always reduce light more by going to high speed sync and then going faster than 1/200 for shutter speed.
Also, I really found it beneficial on lighting to watch some You Tube videos by Tony Corbell. Excellent teacher on lighting. Just do a You Tube search.


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## Braineack (Nov 10, 2014)

shoot-throughs seem to take up more space and bounce are a little more directional so your light doesnt spill all over.


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## dannylightning (Nov 10, 2014)

1/200 is as fast as my camera will give me when I am using a flash.  I do not have a high speed sync option on this camera. 

I am thinking about trying the lumiquest softobox LTP ,  I have been doing allot of reading about smaller flash diffsuers over the last few days and these sound like a very good option, they are kind of small but still a descent size.  I watched a few video reviews on these,  read some online reviews and read some reviews on the websites that sell them and it seems like people really like them.  I have saw some photos taken using these and they also show the same photo taken with just raw flash, they really seem to reduce the shadows and they also seem to spread the light out pretty well.


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## Rick50 (Nov 10, 2014)

I have a lumiquest and it works, better than bare flash. A bit small so I tend not to use as a main light but for fill. I agree with Braineack about bounce. A piece of white foam board from HD would work to bounce off of.


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## dannylightning (Nov 10, 2014)

the lumiquest ltp is 10x14 inches, same thing as the smaller ones just bigger and about the same price.. 

having something to bounce off of would be nice but I am not sure if you mean using it as a reflector or putting it up on the ceiling or bouncing it out of a umbrella instead of shooting thew the umbrella


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## Rick50 (Nov 10, 2014)

You can place on ceiling or wall then aim the flash into at an angle so the light bounces off onto the subject. The light really spreads this way and softens up. I have a white sloped ceiling in my living room (studio) and I'll do a little test for ya.

This guy has a very good website about speedlite flash. 
Tangents — photography by Neil van Niekerk


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## dannylightning (Nov 10, 2014)

cool thanks.   down in the basement I would definitely need to add some white boards or something to make that work.

from what I can tell the light from the speed lights spreads out pretty well already, I am new to this kind of thing so what do I know.   my subjects seem lit well that is why I say that.


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## Rick50 (Nov 10, 2014)

Here is the result:
1st shot shows the setup. 
Model at left. 
Small square softbox pointing at model (approx size to lumiquest). 
Bare flash in front of softbox aimed up at ceiling. Now I do have a big white ceiling so better for me.
Camera and laptop with a tethered connection to camera (different discussion).






With only the softbox firing: 1/200 F/4 lite in ETTL mode.
The big softbox not used at all.





With only bounced light. 1/200 F/1.4 ETTL mode.





See how much softer the 2nd lite is because of the size.


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## dannylightning (Nov 10, 2014)

the second one looks better for sure,     did you just aim the softbox up at the ceiling for that one ?


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## Rick50 (Nov 10, 2014)

No softbox at all, just the flash pointed at ceiling. See top photo.


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## dannylightning (Nov 10, 2014)

Well I'll have to see if I can get some white boards up,  I'll have to see what the people I rent from think about that though 

Sent from my XT1028 using Tapatalk


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## dannylightning (Nov 11, 2014)

I would like to thank all of you for the great advice.


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## Rick50 (Nov 11, 2014)

Your welcome - that was fun...


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