# Trying so hard - but my images are still mainly unsharp! ;o(



## littlenomad (Aug 26, 2012)

I have both a 50mm 1.8 Canon lense and a Sigma 18-200mm and I am consistently getting bad bad out-of-focus. Tried all kinds of things but I am getting almost 80% out of focus. There must be something dead obvious that I am doing wrong?
I had the shutterspeed quite high at 250 or even higher to make sure that it's not camera shake. Aperture was at f2.8 and f6 respectively. ISO approx 100 or 200. I just can't figure it out and am sooo gutted. ;o(

The attached image shows a better one of the lot, but still pretty bad. The rest are much worse. Any ideas? 

Thanks so much!


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## binga63 (Aug 26, 2012)

just an idea but try shooting with a tripod.. remote trigger...
or shoot a static object and work out the idiosyncracies of the lenses at each of the given fstops on your camera..but most of all don't give up.. .


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## SCraig (Aug 26, 2012)

I don't know what the exact camera-to-subject distance on this one was, but assuming 10' then you only have about 10" of acceptable depth of field at f/1.8.  That's about 3" to 5" in front of your point of focus and 5" to 7" behind your point of focus.  Plus, using maximum aperture (assuming that f/1.8 was maximum aperture) then, generally speaking, you will never get the sharpest images possible from a lens, you need to stop down at least 1 to 2 stops.  Stopping down a bit will also give you more usable depth of field.  For example, going from f/1.8 to f/4 increases the depth of field from 10" to 22"


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## tirediron (Aug 26, 2012)

Could you provide links to a couple of the high-res images that you say are worse and include the full EXIF data?  That one is rather small to try make any sort of analysis on.

My first guess (and the most common problem among new photographers, in my experience).  Is missed focus.  Camaera auto-focus systems like contrast and light, and if you're using wide-area/dynamic-area/whatever-it's-called auto-focus, the camera may choose an aread which isn't what you want.  Re-read your camera's manual and determine how to use just a single focusing point, and place that on the point of critical focus and then press the shutter release.


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## raphaelaaron (Aug 26, 2012)

judging by what you've mentioned to rule out camera shake and soft focusing it may be something else. did you buy your camera body used? is it old?

im guessing it may be either a backfocusing issue with the lenses or body.

or it may even be a mirror that has come bumped out of its position by a little bit. this happened to me once while shooting. caught consecutive blurry shots and was scratching my head, and until my last shot, the mirror flew off after pressing the shutter. of course i had to send it back to Canon. just a guess, though. best of luck.


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## KmH (Aug 26, 2012)

Neither of those lenses are quality lenses.

From a review of the Sigma 18-200 lens: Sigma 18-200mm f/3.5-6.3 DC OS HSM review: Digital Photography Review


> *Conclusion - Cons*
> ​
> 
> Very inconsistent sharpness through the zoom range - extremely soft at 80mm
> ...


and from a review of the Canon 50 mm f/1.8: 


> Excellent image quality *when stopped down
> *Extremely cheaply built



Depth-of-field (DoF) is what controls what in a scene will be in focus. Many new to photography have difficulties understanding how to use DoF effectively, and many lack the technical literacy required to troubleshoot photographic problems. It doesn't help much that today's entry level cameras have such crummy viewfinders that when they have a DoF preview function, the viewfinder gets so dark as to make the feature nearly useless. 

This group of tutorials can help as a place to begin gaining knowledge of the concepts described like DoF and the basic concepts of auto focus. Learn Photography Concepts


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## belial (Aug 26, 2012)

KmH said:
			
		

> Neither of those lenses are quality lenses.
> Concepts[/URL]



He shouldn't be getting sharpness issues with the 1.8 though. The lens isn't perfect but it is sharp


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## belial (Aug 26, 2012)

What focussing procedures are you using? Are you using auto point selection? If not which focus point are you using? Are you using center post focus and recompose techniques? Those aren't always the best idea at wide apertures.


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## KmH (Aug 26, 2012)

The Canon 50 mm f/1.8 is not sharp at f/1.8. It starts getting sharp at f/3.5, and is sharpest when used between f/4 and f/8.


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## table1349 (Aug 26, 2012)

One suggestion.  Just because you have an f1.8 lens, doesn't mean you should use f1.8 as in the posted shot.  A smaller aperture, will be sharper, provide a bit more DOF to work with and in the posted photo would not make any difference in the overall appearance.  

Exif Data from you above shot.

Date Time Original2012:08:26 15:38:43Exposure Time1/250F Number*f / 1.80*Exposure ProgramManualISO Speed Ratings200Metering ModePatternFlashFlash did not fire, compulsory flash modeFocal Length50mmWhite BalanceAuto white balanceMakeCanonModelCanon EOS 600DLensInfo4LensModelEF50mm f/1.8 IILensSerialNumber0000000000


DOF tutorial: Understanding Depth of Field in Photography
Whole tutorial package: Digital Photography Tutorials


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## cgipson1 (Aug 26, 2012)

Two problems here:

#1 Shooting at 1.8 minimizes the DOF greatly, and some (most) lenses are not at their sharpest wide open...

#2 shooting wide open is a recent fad among many people new to photography (especially the MWAC crowd), and they lack the basic skills in camera handling to be able to shoot at wide open, to compensate for the other lacks. (I am assuming the OP is new to photography, or they would know this already!)


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## PlanetStarbucks (Aug 26, 2012)

Slightly different tack here from what all the others were on...but, are  you shooting through a filter?  From detail part of the dress, it looks less like a focus problem and more of a ghosting or chromatic aberration.  I'd be surprised if that's all caused by the lens.  Maybe try shooting some similarly high contrast things in different ways and the problem can be nailed down.  If that's all lens issues, then...wow.


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## KmH (Aug 26, 2012)

Good point. No doubt, a low quality filter could hinder auto focus module performance and cause other problems.


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## littlenomad (Aug 26, 2012)

Thank you for all the helpful responses! Looks like I was shooting many of these at too small an aperture (1.8 and 2.5) and will try at f4 upwards. I didn't use a filter. 

So camera shake isn't part of the problem? 

The other lense (Sigma) however I did shoot at f5 and above, but again as low as it would go. See below.

Here is one where focus seems to be on the wall, not the girl (Canon Lense).

And here is one very very eeky (Canon):

Same Lense but now nice and sharp (Canon):

Could it be both a focus and camera shake issue? Or just focus? Wondering whether I should try a f5 or so on the Canon with a tripod. Camera itself is a Canon600D, wonder whether that's something else in USA terms? It's less than a year old, same with the lenses. Although yes there is always the possibility of a bump. But I wonder whether it's more of a user issue?


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## cgipson1 (Aug 26, 2012)

It was mentioned that most lenses are usually not at their sharpest wide open. A lens with a max aperture of F5 is probably not an expensive lens, and is likely to be less sharp at F5 than a more expensive lens. Most lenses are usually SHARPEST about 2 stops closed down from the max aperture. Highly recommend that you try that.. you will see a difference!


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## SCraig (Aug 26, 2012)

littlenomad said:


> Could it be both a focus and camera shake issue? Or just focus? Wondering whether I should try a f5 or so on the Canon with a tripod. Camera itself is a Canon600D, wonder whether that's something else in USA terms? It's less than a year old, same with the lenses. Although yes there is always the possibility of a bump. But I wonder whether it's more of a user issue?



You have to look at your camera settings before each shot.  You have to know what the pros and cons of shooting at a low aperture or high aperture, or a slow shutter speed or a fast shutter speed, or a low ISO or a high ISO.  These three values are called the "Exposure Triangle" and they are related.  If you change one of them then to maintain a proper exposure you have to change another to compensate.  At the same time each one has specific advantages and disadvantages.  As the photographer it is up to you to make the compromise that will allow you to get the shot that you want.

If your shutter speed was too low, then it is entirely possible that camera shake was part of the problem.  If you shot at a wide-open aperture then it is quite possible that the aperture was your problem.  If the environment was dimly lighted then it is entirely possible that the autofocus module wasn't able to get a good focus lock.  These are things that you have to look at before you press the shutter. 

 To me it looks like a combination of all of them.  Some may have camera shake, some may have missed autofocus, some may have too large an aperture.


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## littlenomad (Aug 26, 2012)

Wonder if that's a great excuse to buy a new lense? ;o) 

I need a good portrait lense, good for doing shots with a still model and crazy running kids! ;o) Any recommendations?

Although my guess is that it is more technique than equipment.


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## pgriz (Aug 29, 2012)

Much of what you need to know about getting the best sharpness has been mentioned, but here is my list:

1)  Take that filter off.  (because filters often cause distortion, reflection, chromatic abberation, etc.)
2)  Use an aperture where your lens is sharp  (which is rarely wide open. 2 stops from wide open is the usual advice.  f/8 is generally safe.  Using f/8 also gives enough DOF to put a whole person within the range of sharpness).
3)  If hand-holding, use an appropriate shutter speed.  The usual rule here is that the shutter speed should be no slower than the reciprocal of the focal length forfull frame cameras.  That is a 50mm lens should have a minimum shutter speed of 1/50 sec.  For Canon crop cameras, the crop factor is 1.6, and the 50mm lens is equivalent to 80mm, so 1/90 sec would be appropriate).
4)  If hand-holding, use your IS/VR  this can help minimize camera motion.
5)  If using AF, use the most sensitive focusing point.  For Rebel Canons, that is the center AF point.
6)  If the light is too low, use a tripod.  This will minimize camera shake, and also allow the use of live-view focusing.  However, a slow shutter speed may allow subject motion.  When using the tripod, turn off the IS/VR.
7)  Raising the ISO can help get the picture in dim light, but it also (depending on the camera) increases the noise, which can make the apparent sharpness less.
8)  when shooting portraits, or people, focus on the eyes as that is what most viewers will tend to look at first.


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## scorpion_tyr (Aug 29, 2012)

I'll just add to the list of suggestions since I didn't see it mentioned: Are you using Auto or Manual focus? If you're in auto make sure you're using the correct focus point. If you're using the center one and re-composing, that can throw your focus off a bit. If you're using manual, make sure your diopter is adjusted properly.


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## ceejtank (Aug 29, 2012)

What focus mode are you using?  Are you using a single point focus, or letting the camera decide what focal point?  In the first image posted, it (to me) looks like the center of her torso is more in focus than the face, leading me to think that it's more of a focal point issue on that shot.

Besides that, the other ideas I had have already been covered.


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## pgriz (Aug 29, 2012)

Another thing to consider:  the autofocus mechanism needs enough light, and enough contrast to determine when the focus point is actually in focus.  If your focus target is either dark or has minimal contrast, then you may be better off doing manual focusing.  On most DSLR's that's not as easy as it used to be with film SLR's, as the focusing aids the SLR's used (split prisms, etc.) are usually not present in DSLR's.  Manual focusing can be done using the live-view feature (at 5x or 10x magnification), but then you need the camera on a tripod to avoid moving it after you acquire the focus.


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## Derrel (Aug 29, 2012)

I see a pattern of significant over-exposure in these shots; is the camera's light metering system perhaps set to a bit of " + " exposure, as in PLUS exposure compensation? That can lead to slower shutter speeds and/or wider lens apertures, which can at times, cause poor results. I only ask because I see something of a pattern in these photos.


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## Chubbs (Aug 29, 2012)

I think you should try moving your F-stop higher than 2.8. Most of the pictures you can see a focus area just behind the subject or just in front of the subject. Which a lower F stop would produce.  Also make sure that your auto focus is working properly.  If it is maybe your camera is just missing the intended subject maybe try a manual focus? You can always add that blown out bokeh look post process =) I really like your composition in these tho!


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## 3bayjunkie (Aug 29, 2012)

Try changing you focusing point on you focusing screen.


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## greybeard (Aug 29, 2012)

Like they all write, try your 50mm at f/4 or f/5.6  If things are still soft then there is a real problem.  I'm pretty certain things will sharpen up.  Zoom lenses can be just terrible.  I have a Nikon 18-105 that isn't sharp no matter what I seem to do, so don't judge things too much with your zoom.


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## Solarflare (Aug 30, 2012)

The Nikon 18-105mm should be good between 24 and 60mm at f/8.

Same for the 18-55m which is great between 24 and 50mm, again at f/8.


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## littlenomad (Aug 30, 2012)

Wow, thank you so much for your feedback! So many good points. 

I do use PLUS exposure compensation by 1-2 stops for when I do shoot in AV (which I didn't actually do in these shots, so should have turned it off - good point). Usually I shoot in manual mode. 

I do struggle with the auto-focus, the whole pointing then moving the camera thing often seems to throw the whole thing out (doesn't hold focus sometimes, despite keeping the shutter half way down??) and trying to do a manual focus is pretty tricky on that 50mm.


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## Derrel (Aug 30, 2012)

Well, *STOP *using the "plus exposure compensation"!


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## amolitor (Aug 30, 2012)

Are you sure that holding the shutter button halfway DOES lock focus on your camera? On some cameras it's a configuration option, and on others you actually cannot make the shutter button lock focus (it's some other button that can be configured to do it, usually, in that case).

Also, why on earth are you going +1-2 exposure compensation? Is this some sort of 'expose to the right' thing you're trying out? ETTR is at best a subtle and advanced technique, and at worst complete cargo-cult nonsense.


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## vtf (Aug 31, 2012)

Well I am usually keen on catching these threads at the beginning, must be slipping. The 50 1.8 is a hunter, needs alot of contrast for it to focus and is best at f4-8. People get confused about the 50 1.8 and what works well in low light. I would avoid situations where it required 1.8 and darkness without great care or flash.


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## DiskoJoe (Aug 31, 2012)

littlenomad said:


> Wonder if that's a great excuse to buy a new lense? ;o)
> 
> I need a good portrait lense, good for doing shots with a still model and crazy running kids! ;o) Any recommendations?
> 
> Although my guess is that it is more technique than equipment.



You need to learn how to hold your camera steady before you go spending money on more toys.


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## CanonJim (Sep 3, 2012)

As if you need another .02 cents thrown in here... Pretty much everything above is excellent advice. I also own the 50 f/1.8 (as do about 30 million other Canon shooters) and I've found that it's best between f/6 and f/13 or so, in my experience.  For $100, you get what you pay for. The other snippets are all good - use a tripod when you can, with remote shutter release and mirror lock-up, to remove ALL possible camera shake fuzziness.  Take off any crappy filters (which you say you don't use, so that's good).  Use the CENTER focus point only. If you use the viewfinder to focus manually make sure the diopter is correct.  The AF systems in most cameras look for high contrast, reflectivity, and brightness areas, as others have noted.  When choosing between a face and a wet rock, they'll always focus on the rock.

99.99% of all perceived "out of focus" stuff is due to too wide an aperture combined with an incorrectly chosen focus point(s).


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## littlenomad (Sep 11, 2012)

Thought I had it sorted but it appears that's not the case. ;o( I understand the f stop thing, but if I increase that too much (to about 5-6) I don't get any background blur anymore. Why would I use the centre focus point only? Generally I use the focus point closest to my subject and focus on the eyes. 
I was taking photos alongside my friend who was taking them at 2.8f. She got all hers sharp, mine were hardly. I wonder if it is also camera shake, but does that mean that unless I use a tripod I'll never be able to get any decent focus as I am not that steady? ;o(


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## Maneef (Sep 11, 2012)

This Might Help you a bit

twiching: Basic Tips for Getting Tack-Sharp Photos


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## tedyun (Sep 11, 2012)

The center point uses cross-type sensor, where it uses information from the vertical and horizontal axes to achieve focus. The other 8 points are either vertical or horizontal, so the center point is most accurate.

What kind of camera does your friend have?

I was having the same sort of issues with my 50 f/1.4 and on my Rebel T2i (550D). If shooting wide open, it helps to use the center point. Any other point seems to be inaccurate, so I have to decrease the aperture.

If you use the same settings and use Live View to autofocus, are the images sharp?




littlenomad said:


> Thought I had it sorted but it appears that's not the case. ;o( I understand the f stop thing, but if I increase that too much (to about 5-6) I don't get any background blur anymore. Why would I use the centre focus point only? Generally I use the focus point closest to my subject and focus on the eyes.
> I was taking photos alongside my friend who was taking them at 2.8f. She got all hers sharp, mine were hardly. I wonder if it is also camera shake, but does that mean that unless I use a tripod I'll never be able to get any decent focus as I am not that steady? ;o(


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## littlenomad (Sep 16, 2012)

She has a Mark 2? Some of her pictures ended up the same as mine. Most didn't. But then I can't use a tripod all the time if that's the issue!

Liveview does weird things on my camera so I never use it.


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## pgriz (Sep 16, 2012)

It comes down to four things:
1)  you need enough light to get adequate DOF (via aperture) and shutter speed (above the handshake level),
2)  you need enough DOF to have all of your subject sharp (which is determined by aperture)
3)  you need to have the focus on the right spot so that your subject is within the DOF range (whether done by manual focus or AF)
4)  you need to have the right "quality" of light to bring out the shape and texture of your subject matter.

In addition, you've already been told that the sharpness of your lens (actually all lenses) depends on the aperture - each lens has a "sweet spot" range where it is sharpest.  The cheap lenses have a narrow range, and the really good lenses have a wide range.

As for using/not using the Liveview function - it's a tool.  It needs to be learned to be used effectively.  When used properly, it's very good (in some situations, indispensable) at getting the focus where it needs to be.  

Most of the advice given to you in this thread touched upon one or more of the four things I mention above.  So, have you been able to apply this advice to get the sharpness you were looking for?  If not, what exactly are you doing different from the advice you've gotten?


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## tedyun (Sep 16, 2012)

I think this may be part of the answer. The autofocus on the 5D Mark II is better than the 600D. 

I would try to compare shots with the autofocus points and doing the same points using live view (you can move around the focus rectangle with the 4 directional keys). If you get differing results between Live View and the viewfinder, it might be an issue with the autofocus. 

If that's the case, you don't really have much of a choice except to decrease the aperture to get a wider depth of field. If you are at f/1.8, you (or rather the autofocus) don't have much margin of error. You should also try using the center point as it is the most accurate (which limits your ability to compose the shot).

The other thing you can do is to install Magic Lantern. It has some manual focus assist tools where it flashes the pixels red for the area that is in focus. You have to have a very stationary subject (which it looks like you do), and you have to use Live View.

Or you could do what I did, and upgrade! I started taking more "sports" shots since my kids started soccer, and I got so frustrated with the autofocus on my 550D. I moved to a 7D, and the autofocus rarely misses.





littlenomad said:


> She has a Mark 2? Some of her pictures ended up the same as mine. Most didn't. But then I can't use a tripod all the time if that's the issue!
> 
> Liveview does weird things on my camera so I never use it.


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