# T7i or 77D for yearbook students?



## ac12 (Mar 20, 2018)

I am putting together a recommendation for next year to the yearbook advisor.
We need a couple more cameras.
Current cameras:  T3 (x1), T5 (x2), T7i (x2)
I am split between recommending 2 more T7i or the 77D.

The big benefit to the T7i, is the camera is identical to what they have.

With the 77D, they have to learn a new camera/control layout, and switching between the cameras may be problematic for some of them.  
Is the 77D worth upgrading to?

These are 15-16 year old kids, not adults.  
Importantly, most of them are not photographers, so KISS would be appropriate.

I would appreciate any thoughts you may have.


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## TCampbell (Mar 21, 2018)

The technical features of the two cameras (sensor, ISO range, focus system, shooting speed, etc. etc.) are virtually identical.

The major difference is the form factor of the camera body and how that effects shooting.

The 77D has a body with controls setup a bit more similar to what you'd find in mid-range and high-end camera bodies.  The T7i has the Rebel layout.

The 77D does have the extra top LCD panel showing exposure info which the T7i lacks.  

BUT... the 77D has an extra control dial on the back of the body which the T7i lacks.  This makes it a bit easier to navigate functions and certainly makes it easier to shoot in Manual mode.

On a T7i in Manual mode, the front dial (near the shutter button) changes the shutter speed.  But to change aperture, you have to press-and-hold the Av+/- button on the back WHILE rotating the main dial on the front (this makes the camera adjust aperture with the dial instead of shutter speed with the same dial).

On a 77D in Manual mode, the front dial controls shutter speed, the back dial controls aperture.  No extra buttons to push.  You get direct control.


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## ac12 (Mar 21, 2018)

Thanks Tim.
That 2nd dial may have made the decision for me.
I just have to think about the different control layout, and if that will be too confusing or not.

Sorry, I'm fighting a migraine.
I looked at the specs and compared them on the Canon USA site, and saw almost no difference, except for the layout difference.  Hence my confusion between them.
I could not see the 2nd dial in the images.  Got to go look at the pix again.

Tim, your opinion please.
For high school kids, do you think it best to stick to a common layout; T5 and T7.  Or would switching between cameras to a different layout (77D) be confusing?
But if I can convince the YB advisor to make a small photo team within the class, I would put the 77D there, and leave the T5/T7 with the rest of the kids.  Then most of the kids won't have that control layout difference to deal with.


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## Derrel (Mar 21, 2018)

When one has "pool" equipment, standardization of models is often the best idea, even if it means sacrificing some so-called features. Familiarity with the controls and operating procedures of a mechanism is often more important to the end-use than the specifications and alleged quality of the mechanism. I say buy two more of the most-common model, so that the majority of the pool gear is identical.


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## TCampbell (Mar 23, 2018)

Kids are pretty smart when it comes to electronics... but if I were in your position, I'd probably go with keeping everything as similar as possible... and also offering a primer on how to use the equipment.

If I were buying the camera for ME then I'd go with the 77D because it offers a bit more technical control based on the control layout.  But as this is meant to be a camera for use by a pool of people who will probably be switching bodies and it wont be their personal camera (so how well will they really get to become fluent in the use of it)... then the consistency might be the better choice.

You mentioned many of them mostly just use full 'auto' mode... so those features are unlikely to be used except by more advanced users.

Here's Canon's images of the two camera backs for comparison:




 

 

The top image is the T7i, the bottom image is the 77D.  

On the T7i you can see four buttons arranged like a circle with the "set" button in the middle.  The buttons double up on purpose... for example the top button says "WB" (white balance), the right button says "AF" (auto-focus mode), but when you're in a menu, they also let you navigate the menu choices (scroll up/down or move left-right).

On the 77D the four buttons are replaced with a disk that has a nubby ring around it.  That ring rotates.  It's easy to roll that real-dial with your thumb while your index finger rolls the front dial.  This is also how you can navigate menu choices.  The disk with the WB/AF, etc. choices also rocks in each direction.

The T7i has a button labeled "Av +/-" (aperture adjustments) and that button is missing on the 77D (because the rear-dial handles the aperture).   You'll also notice the 77D has a "lock" lever below the rear dial.  

If you shoot in either Tv or Av mode (instead of Manual) then the rear dial is used to dial exposure compensation up or down.  Notice the "lock" lever below the rear-dial... if you flip that lever then the rear-dial is disabled (it wont adjust exposure compensation) for normal shooting (it still works when you hit the menu button to help you navigate the menus).  This is for photographers who fear they might accidentally dial in exposure compensation without knowing and just want to set it and lock it.

Notice the main mode dial is on the right of the viewfinder on the T7i, but moves to the left side on the 77D... that's to make room for the top-LCD display.

Also, the 77D has an "AF-ON" button. This is used for back-button focus.  Normally both auto-focus and metering are activated by half-pressing the shutter.  But sometimes you're following action, someone/something gets in the way, and the focus snaps to that distraction.  There would otherwise be no way to take a shot without the focus changing to the distraction because pressing the shutter activates focus.  But you can optionally configure back-button focus on the 77D such that pressing the shutter button does NOT activate focus... focus is activated with the back-button (the AF-ON button).    These are features that are standard on all mid-range and above models. 

The 77D has a control layout not identical... more more similar to what you'd find on mid-range and above cameras (e.g. 80D, 7D series, 6D series, 5D series, & 1D series bodies).  The body isn't physically as large as those camera bodies so everything is a bit closer together.


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## ac12 (Mar 23, 2018)

The old saying "trust your instinct."
I was thinking T7i for the common interface.

But I really LIKE the 2nd dial of the 77D.  It functions similar to my D7200.  Easy to change aperture and shutter speed.  But that was more from MY perspective.  Without the 2 dials, I was confused as to how to adjust the aperture on the T7i.  I had to RTFM myself.
I can see it now, the T5 and T7s are in use so someone grabs a 77D, or they just grab the 77D instead of the T7, then gets confused by the different controls and screws up the shoot.

It seems that I am committed to the common interface of the T7i.


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## beagle100 (Mar 23, 2018)

ac12 said:


> The old saying "trust your instinct."
> I was thinking T7i for the common interface.
> 
> But I really LIKE the 2nd dial of the 77D.  It functions similar to my D7200.  Easy to change aperture and shutter speed.  But that was more from MY perspective.  Without the 2 dials, I was confused as to how to adjust the aperture on the T7i.  I had to RTFM myself.
> ...




OK, I was thinking 77D and good lighting
*www.flickr.com/photos/mmirrorless*


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## ac12 (Mar 29, 2018)

I recommend the T7i, for commonality with the existing cameras in a pool environment.


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## Overread (Mar 29, 2018)

I'd say that the 77D would be worth it even if you only got the one of them if the focus of the pooled kit was linked to a course/training/improvement in photography at a technical level. Then there is some justification for access to something a bit higher level (and more standard for what they'd likely use if they followed it as a serious hobby/interest/line of work) as that would couple with instruction/training and improvement. 

If its more a block of gear people grab to use to take photos without the back up of proper instruction and such then I'd say two more T7i. As said it gives them the standard similar interface to work with which means they can grab and go. If they are mostly using auto or only lightly changing settings and not following it with instruction then chances are the same setup is far easier for them to work with.
It's not to say they couldn't learn the 77D, just that if learning isn't the focus then why complicate matters beyond what's needed for the level of attention they are expected to pay to the equipment.


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## Designer (Mar 29, 2018)

The key sentence:





ac12 said:


> Importantly, most of them are not photographers, so KISS would be appropriate.


You could save a lot of money and angst if you just bought half a dozen compact cameras.  All alike.  One page of simple instructions (which could be downloaded onto their phones) is all they need.

Save the DSLRs for the photography geeks.


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## Overread (Mar 29, 2018)

Actually sometimes compacts can be harder to work out. 
Do  I use firework scene or night without flash portrait mode for this shot of a moving car with headlights at night?! 

A DSLR in the hands can also be the kind of thing that makes a person feel more official at events when snapping away and heck it might turn some more keen on photography. A good entry level DSLR is plenty good enough and if its mostly for school events they don't necessarily need the long zoom reach that the compacts offer (plus DSLRs can do that cool bokeh stuff!)


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## ac12 (Mar 29, 2018)

Sorry,
THANK YOU all for your comments. 
It made me think about a few things that I would not have thought of before.

I personally would have liked to go with the 77D, because of the 2 control dials.
But commonality of controls of pool gear with a changing staff of student users each year won out.

I might get enthusiasts one year, then none the next, so reading the future is difficult.
Next year, I "might" have one returning enthusiast.  If she does not return, then I have no intermediate level photographer to take advantage of a 77D.
Maybe next year, once we get an adequate pool of cameras, then we can branch out to the more complicated camera like the 77D.

Yes I thought about the P&S.
In fact we have one, which NONE of the students want to touch, and have not touched all year.
I think there might be a negative stigma of using the P&S, where they can and want to use a "real" camera.  Even though by setting scene mode or auto mode, they are effectively turning the dslr into a P&S.


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## Overread (Mar 29, 2018)

It can also be other things too. Compact cameras (esp lower end and older ones though still some newer middle range today) tend to have things like slower AF; lag when you press the shutter, no or very small viewfinders (arms length can be a pain for a longer hoot if you've got to use the LCD) etc.... the lag in itself can be a huge pain to deal with as can spotty AF - even if your compact hasn't got those issues (some are very very good today) its still a stigma based on likely past experiences some students might have

Another part can be controls and interface; if they've all been using the DSLR then its familiar and they know how to work it; throw them another brand DSLR or the compact where things work differently and it means re-learning it all over again interface wise


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## ac12 (Mar 29, 2018)

Ha, and that is why I sometimes HATE my own P&S.
Dang shutter lag of 1-2 seconds drives me NUTS.
I have given up using it with the small kids in the family.  Kids do NOT stay still. They moved 2-3 feet by the time the shutter fires.   grrrr

And for the same reason, it would fall on it's face when shooting sports, where you usually do not have the luxury of prefocusing on a spot.  Yes, I did get spoiled by a good AF system.  I would rather NOT shoot sports with a manual lens, AF is soooo much easier.


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