# Attempt at capturing a muzzle flash.



## TheMightyGoat (Oct 7, 2009)

I did this more for documenting purposes than artistic ones but I think it turned out fairly interesting.

Taken at night with a single flash on a timer.


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## Buckster (Oct 7, 2009)

It is interesting indeed!  Good job.  Don't understand "on a timer" though.  Can you elaborate on your set up?


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## TheMightyGoat (Oct 7, 2009)

Buckster said:


> It is interesting indeed!  Good job.  Don't understand "on a timer" though.  Can you elaborate on your set up?



Meaning it was a camera-mounted flash and the camera was on a self-timer on a tripod.


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## Buckster (Oct 7, 2009)

TheMightyGoat said:


> Buckster said:
> 
> 
> > It is interesting indeed!  Good job.  Don't understand "on a timer" though.  Can you elaborate on your set up?
> ...


I still don't understand how that coincides with the timing of the shot itself.  How did you coordinate the two?


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## Derrel (Oct 7, 2009)

Good shot! Reminds me of the old Nikon advertisements from the early 1980's when they invented the world's first 1/4000 second focal plane shutter, showing a .38 Special bullet moving through the air as a demonstration of what 1/4000 second could do.

It looks to me like we're seeing the bullet moving through space in your photo as well. Cool!


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## TheMightyGoat (Oct 7, 2009)

Buckster said:


> TheMightyGoat said:
> 
> 
> > Buckster said:
> ...



Oh. You mean "shot" as in the shot from the pistol. Not the image from the camera.

Yeah. I practiced. I pulled the trigger exactly when the self-timer ran out.


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## DennyCrane (Oct 7, 2009)

That's a terrific picture. No suggestions at all. Well done.


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## fokker (Oct 8, 2009)

Very cool


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## inTempus (Oct 8, 2009)

Yup, you can see the bullet in flight just in front of the muzzle.  The slide has just began its rearward travel.

Great shot.  I would be interested in hearing how you triggered your shot as well to time it with the firing of the pistol.


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## TheMightyGoat (Oct 8, 2009)

inTempus said:


> Yup, you can see the bullet in flight just in front of the muzzle.  The slide has just began its rearward travel.
> 
> Great shot.  I would be interested in hearing how you triggered your shot as well to time it with the firing of the pistol.



Just practice. I stood in front of the camera as the timer was going off and got a feel for when the flash was about to fire. Then I would pull the trigger at the same time.

I have a bunch of other shots of shells ejecting and the like, if anyone is interested, but none quite so interesting as the one I posted.


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## inTempus (Oct 8, 2009)

Ah, thanks for the follow-up.

I figured it was a *VERY* lucky shot.  Literally one in a million!


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## JIP (Oct 8, 2009)

I would be QUITE surprised if this shot was real.  The red color near the muzzle and the total lack of movement in the slide are very strange.  This was a decent attempt at Photoshopping a muzzle flash but it just seems too motionless to me.


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## Buckster (Oct 8, 2009)

JIP said:


> I would be QUITE surprised if this shot was real.  The red color near the muzzle and the total lack of movement in the slide are very strange.  This was a decent attempt at Photoshopping a muzzle flash but it just seems too motionless to me.


  Before inferring that someone's a liar, you might want to get do a little research and get some information about how such shots are achieved...

It was done in the dark / near-dark with a flash that freezes the action because it only lasts a fraction of a second.  It's the same way that high-speed photography is done.

Example: These http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/macro-photography/178920-milk-drops.html splashes I shot are a full 2 seconds long on exposure time, but they're not blurred because the flash freezes them in place.


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## 1986 (Oct 8, 2009)

I do not know anything about these kind of shoots. Jib dose have a point about the tip of the gun is red. I have an airsoft gun that has a red tip like that too. But maybe regular guns have red tips? I do not know anything about guns either.  

Regardless of whether it is photoshopped or not it is a pretty cool looking shot. I would be interested to know if this shot is photoshopped or not.


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## Buckster (Oct 8, 2009)

1986 said:


> I do not know anything about these kind of shoots. Jib dose have a point about the tip of the gun is red. I have an airsoft gun that has a red tip like that too. But maybe regular guns have red tips? I do not know anything about guns either.
> 
> Regardless of whether it is photoshopped or not it is a pretty cool looking shot. I would be interested to know if this shot is photoshopped or not.


It's a real gun with real gunpowder that makes a real explosion that creates a flash of light that exits the end of the barrel.

That said, I don't see the reason yet to assume that this is a Photoshop creation.  I'm pretty sure I could recreate this effect with a gun and without Photoshop, but I'd probably use a sound trigger to time it.


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## JIP (Oct 8, 2009)

I am not assuming the OP is a liar.  This mayt be a real image and it may not but my questioning the authenticity is in no way an attack on the OP's honesty.  Personally I see no motion in the image and if it is real I say NICE JOB!! since it was so well timed as to find te EXACT moment where the round fired before the slide started to go back and to me that is a one in a, well I wanted to say million but I think the odds are higher than one in a million.  Agina I am not trying to question the OP's integrity, honesty or, anything like that I am simply suggesting that to me the image does not look authentic and might be an honest attempt to see if a PS job was well done.


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## 1986 (Oct 8, 2009)

Buckster said:


> 1986 said:
> 
> 
> > I do not know anything about these kind of shoots. Jib dose have a point about the tip of the gun is red. I have an airsoft gun that has a red tip like that too. But maybe regular guns have red tips? I do not know anything about guns either.
> ...



I was commenting on the actual barrel of the gun being red. The red glow would be understandable seeing that a gun firing is an explosion. 

I am in no way attacking the photo. I am just asking out of curiosity.


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## Buckster (Oct 8, 2009)

JIP said:


> Personally I see no motion in the image


...and that means... what _exactly_, considering how high-speed photos are made that show no motion?  You know... bullets and splashes and so forth, all frozen in time and space - showing no motion...  How does that indicate at all that they're Photoshopped?  Just curious how you make that connection...


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## Plato (Oct 8, 2009)

JIP said:


> I am not assuming the OP is a liar.  This mayt be a real image and it may not but my questioning the authenticity is in no way an attack on the OP's honesty.  Personally I see no motion in the image and if it is real I say NICE JOB!! since it was so well timed as to find te EXACT moment where the round fired before the slide started to go back and to me that is a one in a, well I wanted to say million but I think the odds are higher than one in a million.  Agina I am not trying to question the OP's integrity, honesty or, anything like that I am simply suggesting that to me the image does not look authentic and might be an honest attempt to see if a PS job was well done.



Uh oh.  You're in trouble now.  You dared to disagree with the great and wonderful Buckster.


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## JIP (Oct 8, 2009)

Of course there is no motion in the _still _image I would assume you would understand what I was talking about.  The shooter looks completely stiff and I guess posed his finger looks like it is poised over the trigger not squeezing it.  Most gun pics of weapons firing (and I have looked at alot) have more of a yellow flame than a bright red.  Lastly, the timing on this one was ABOLUTELY PERFECT.  It was an amazing stroke of luck to capture a muzzle flash before the slide has retracted.  Again I am not trying to impugn the OP's motives in any way and if this image is real I have to say it was AWESOME!! just a perfect moment.  All in all it is a decent image but to me again, it just looked a little fake.  Criticism of an image should not be taken as some kind of attack on the image I mean otherwise why would you ask for it.  Honestly, I hope this is real as if it is the OP should play the lottery with this stroke of luck catching an image with this kind of impeccable timing.


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## Soocom1 (Oct 8, 2009)

First, I have taken shots with 3200 speed film showing props on aircraft sitting still in mid air. The image was so fast, that you could make the differentiation of the colors on the blades, and even see the streaks of the rivets on the blades. So high speed can capture stuff moving that fast. 

Second: On the red flash, keep in mind that the pistol is exhausting out extremely hot gasses that are super heated. That is the glow of the gasses as they escape the barrel. The large puff is not only gun powder, but also the compression of air from the bullet moving at 1400-1600 fps. that is Mach 1.3, or better put, hitting the sound barrier out of the barrel. If you have ever seen the image of an F-15 (I believe) going through the sound barrier, it does the same thing. 

Motion on the slide or his hand would not be seen in such a picture, given that the slide would move much slower than the bullet, and his hand would absorb much of the force. Also, the slide has moved from the end of the barrel, and if you look at his hand, there is a distinctive bulge appiering in the web area of his hand. That showes deffinat recoil. 


So final word from me.... DAMN FINE SHOT!


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## Stormchase (Oct 8, 2009)

Hmm i dont question its real. The barrel will get red hot all of the time. Especially if it was not the first shot. It only has to be red for the time of the open shutter.
I do have a suggestion. If you could get your hands on to a .357 revolver. Maybe a Taurus brand. Thay have a remarkable flash! I used to put out about a 20" 24" 4 point star with mine. With a revolver you could prob get a little fire out of the chamber too. with cheap "hand loaded" ammo like discount store reloads.
Great shot and tuff to get i know!


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## Soocom1 (Oct 8, 2009)

I have a 44 Anaconda and +P gas checks....... :razz:


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## Buckster (Oct 8, 2009)

JIP said:


> Of course there is no motion in the _still _image I would assume you would understand what I was talking about.  The shooter looks completely stiff and I guess posed his finger looks like it is poised over the trigger not squeezing it.  Most gun pics of weapons firing (and I have looked at alot) have more of a yellow flame than a bright red.  Lastly, the timing on this one was ABOLUTELY PERFECT.  It was an amazing stroke of luck to capture a muzzle flash before the slide has retracted.  Again I am not trying to impugn the OP's motives in any way and if this image is real I have to say it was AWESOME!! just a perfect moment.  All in all it is a decent image but to me again, it just looked a little fake.  Criticism of an image should not be taken as some kind of attack on the image I mean otherwise why would you ask for it.  Honestly, I hope this is real as if it is the OP should play the lottery with this stroke of luck catching an image with this kind of impeccable timing.


Appreciate the additional explanation.  Here's my take on the timing issue and the red flash, etc.:

Having dealt with some long exposure photography, including the techniques for employing it for use in high speed photography with flashes, it occurs to me that the muzzle flash would register no matter when it happened during the exposure.

So, for extreme example, imagine that in pitch black darkness we set the exposure to 10 seconds long and use no flash at all.  We pull the trigger of the gun somewhere half way through that 10 seconds.  What do we get?  We get the muzzle flash exposed on the photo, and little or nothing else.  

Now let's say we do the same thing, but this time we flash a strobe at the very beginning of the exposure, and fire the gun five seconds later, again half way through the exposure.  What do we get?  We get a photo of the guy holding the gun before pulling the trigger, combined with the muzzle flash that happened 5 seconds after the strobe fired.

Now let's say we fire the strobe at the end of the exposure, at 9.5 seconds, and still fire the gun half way through at the 5 second mark.  Now what do we get?  We get an exposure that shows the man holding the gun and any smoke from firing it as it appeared 4.5 seconds after the trigger was pulled AND the muzzle fire that was captured half way through the exposure.

Do you see what I'm saying about how the timing to get the muzzle fire doesn't have to be dead nuts perfect, just has to happen anytime during the exposure?  Can you also see why the man and gun will be frozen in place, even before or after the trigger was pulled, and still have the muzzle flash?


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## JIP (Oct 8, 2009)

Soocom1 said:


> First, I have taken shots with 3200 speed film showing props on aircraft sitting still in mid air. The image was so fast, that you could make the differentiation of the colors on the blades, and even see the streaks of the rivets on the blades. So high speed can capture stuff moving that fast.
> 
> Second: On the red flash, keep in mind that the pistol is exhausting out extremely hot gasses that are super heated. That is the glow of the gasses as they escape the barrel. The large puff is not only gun powder, but also the compression of air from the bullet moving at 1400-1600 fps. that is Mach 1.3, or better put, hitting the sound barrier out of the barrel. If you have ever seen the image of an F-15 (I believe) going through the sound barrier, it does the same thing.
> 
> ...


 
Again I agree, fine shot my comment was on the perfection of the shot.  Most of the time if you look at a muzzle flash (and again I have looked at lots) there will be some sparks of unburned powder streaking out of the barrel, there will also be some gasses escaping from the chamber.  It all just looked too perfect to me which is why I made my initial comment.  Honestly about an hour after I made the post I came back to my computer to edit it so as not to start something like this because to me if the OP presented this image saying it was real to find out other people's opinions of his PS skills that would be OK with me.  Either way forget I said anything it's just wonderful and I have no questions as to it's authernticity so I don't hurt anyone's feelings.


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## JIP (Oct 8, 2009)

Buckster said:


> JIP said:
> 
> 
> > Of course there is no motion in the _still _image I would assume you would understand what I was talking about. The shooter looks completely stiff and I guess posed his finger looks like it is poised over the trigger not squeezing it. Most gun pics of weapons firing (and I have looked at alot) have more of a yellow flame than a bright red. Lastly, the timing on this one was ABOLUTELY PERFECT. It was an amazing stroke of luck to capture a muzzle flash before the slide has retracted. Again I am not trying to impugn the OP's motives in any way and if this image is real I have to say it was AWESOME!! just a perfect moment. All in all it is a decent image but to me again, it just looked a little fake. Criticism of an image should not be taken as some kind of attack on the image I mean otherwise why would you ask for it. Honestly, I hope this is real as if it is the OP should play the lottery with this stroke of luck catching an image with this kind of impeccable timing.
> ...


 
That's all well and good but the OP said:



> Taken at night with a single flash on a timer.


 
meaning I am assuming and I think he said as much later in the post, he lined up the shot and tripped the self timer and waited for it to just about finish and pulled the trigger hence my comment about the OP plating the lottery as this was a great stroke of luck.


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## Antithesis (Oct 8, 2009)

I wonder if you could use one of those triggers that fires during a lightning strike? Like this here:

Lightning Trigger

It seems like it would be capturing the same basic principle: a bright flash. Might be worth a try. This thing is $329, but I feel like I've seen a similar product at B&H for like $40.


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## Buckster (Oct 8, 2009)

JIP said:


> That's all well and good but the OP said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


For all we know, he's also got a hundred photos that missed the timing as well.

All in all, still not seeing a reason to assume it's a Photoshop job, so I would not be "QUITE surprised if this shot was real", nor would I make the (thus far) unsubstantiated claim, "This was a decent attempt at Photoshopping a muzzle flash".

Your mileage may vary.


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## TheMightyGoat (Oct 8, 2009)

inTempus said:


> Ah, thanks for the follow-up.
> 
> I figured it was a *VERY* lucky shot.  Literally one in a million!


 
 Exactly one in one hundred fifty, as it happens; that's exactly how many shots I fired that night.



JIP said:


> I would be QUITE surprised if this shot was real. The red color near the muzzle and the total lack of movement in the slide are very strange. This was a decent attempt at Photoshopping a muzzle flash but it just seems too motionless to me.



This picture is real. It was adjusted in Photoshop but not faked.



1986 said:


> I do not know anything about these kind of shoots. Jib dose have a point about the tip of the gun is red. I have an airsoft gun that has a red tip like that too. But maybe regular guns have red tips? I do not know anything about guns either.
> 
> Regardless of whether it is photoshopped or not it is a pretty cool looking shot. I would be interested to know if this shot is photoshopped or not.


 
The tip of the gun is not red. That is the beginning of the muzzle flash, where it is exiting the barrel.



JIP said:


> I am not assuming the OP is a liar. This mayt be a real image and it may not but my questioning the authenticity is in no way an attack on the OP's honesty. Personally I see no motion in the image and if it is real I say NICE JOB!! since it was so well timed as to find te EXACT moment where the round fired before the slide started to go back and to me that is a one in a, well I wanted to say million but I think the odds are higher than one in a million. Agina I am not trying to question the OP's integrity, honesty or, anything like that I am simply suggesting that to me the image does not look authentic and might be an honest attempt to see if a PS job was well done.



If this were a ruse to test my Photoshopping skills, I would still be a liar for calling it legitimate. And I called it legitimate. 

And it is legitimate.



1986 said:


> I was commenting on the actual barrel of the gun being red. The red glow would be understandable seeing that a gun firing is an explosion.
> 
> I am in no way attacking the photo. I am just asking out of curiosity.



Again, the barrel isn't red (neither is it glowing red). It's just the gas exiting the barrel that you're seeing.

Here are some other pictures to give some perspective on what's going on. In the other two images with a muzzle flash captured, you can get some sense of the type of exposure Buckster is talking about.

This one was too late. See the shell coming from the ejection port?






This one was a _little_ bit closer - the muzzle flash was captured, but after the recoil had taken its effect and the two no longer line up.





Different perspective. See the red circle under the barrel? That would be lined up with the barrel if the exposures for the muzzle flash and the pistol were synchronous.


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## Stosh (Oct 8, 2009)

Very cool, dude.  I wanted to question it myself.  With these extra frames you really put things in perspective.  I still can't believe you got the shot, even if it took you 150 times.  I guess I (and probably others) were expecting more of a "Hollywood" type muzzle flash.  Thanks for sharing this.


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## JIP (Oct 8, 2009)

Stosh said:


> Very cool, dude. I wanted to question it myself. With these extra frames you really put things in perspective. I still can't believe you got the shot, even if it took you 150 times. I guess I (and probably others) were expecting more of a "Hollywood" type muzzle flash. Thanks for sharing this.


 
Personally I being the person who originally questioned this image did not expect more of a "hollywood" shot but being an avid shooter myself I did not expect it to be this clean.  I will accept he original shot as authentic and that being the case EXCELLENT WORK MAN!!.  As I said this is a one in a million shot to get this perfect moment and I still say with this shot you should go out and play the lottery tonight because this was your lucky day with a whole lot of skill involved.


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## syphlix (Oct 8, 2009)

i think i would be scared of shooting anywhere in the near vicinity of my camera.


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## TheMightyGoat (Oct 8, 2009)

syphlix said:


> i think i would be scared of shooting anywhere in the near vicinity of my camera.



At least if I shot mine, I'd only be out $300.


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## inTempus (Oct 8, 2009)

JIP said:


> I would be QUITE surprised if this shot was real.  The red color near the muzzle and the total lack of movement in the slide are very strange.  This was a decent attempt at Photoshopping a muzzle flash but it just seems too motionless to me.


The shot is quite real.  The slide is in the proper location (just dropping out of lock) for where the bullet is in relation to the muzzle.  The gasses are also correct.  It's not a PS hack.


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## 1986 (Oct 8, 2009)

Thanks for posting the other photos. Even though they weren't what you were aiming for I think even the "mess ups" or what ever you want to call them are really cool shots as well. 

I hope you do not think that I was attacking your photo or its legitimacy I was just curious about some things. I am not familiar with guns or high speed photography so I learned something new today!


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## fiveoboy01 (Oct 9, 2009)

Nice job with this, and a little luck too

Approximately how many rounds did you expend doing this?  It's hard to tell from here, looks like a .45ACP or .40S&W?  Casing looks a little too big to be 9mm but this wouldn't be the first time I was wrong:meh:


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## TheMightyGoat (Oct 9, 2009)

fiveoboy01 said:


> Nice job with this, and a little luck too
> 
> Approximately how many rounds did you expend doing this?  It's hard to tell from here, looks like a .45ACP or .40S&W?  Casing looks a little too big to be 9mm but this wouldn't be the first time I was wrong:meh:



It's 9mm. I fired one hundred fifty rounds.

The handgun in question is an STI LS9.


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## bhphotography (Oct 9, 2009)

Congrats on getting it times right!


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## KD5NRH (Oct 16, 2009)

Stosh said:


> I guess I (and probably others) were expecting more of a "Hollywood" type muzzle flash.



For Hollywood flash, you need a .357:








For reference, these are unaltered framegrabs from video.  Even "cheating" like that, it took 10+ shots for the big flash to happen at just the right time to be caught, which makes the OP doing it in a single shot even more impressive.


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## Kegger (Oct 16, 2009)

The Hollywood muzzle flashes are quite easily accomplished.

All you need is a handgun or rifle that uses blanks. The blank firing adapters are ported to give the biggest muzzle flash possible. That simple.

And great timing man, all I can ever get is a puff and muzzle flip...


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