# Shooting young models



## inTempus (Jul 11, 2009)

So I was contacted by a local model on Model Mayhem.  I checked her port out and this is what she looks like:

http://modelmayhm-3.vo.llnwd.net/d1/photos/090705/05/4a50a1a7a8304.jpg

How old do you think she is?

Are you sitting down?

16 years old.

I won't work with someone under the age of 18 without a parent or legal guardian... you have to be careful, ya know?  But if you ran into this girl and she didn't tell you she was 16 would you think to ask for ID?


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## c.cloudwalker (Jul 11, 2009)

Definitely looks older.

And, yes, do have a parent present. Sad but it is the only way I would work with a minor.

And I do a similar thing with adults. Am setting up a nude shoot right now and I've told the model she needs to bring either a boyfriend or girlfriend with her...


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## inTempus (Jul 11, 2009)

c.cloudwalker said:


> Definitely looks older.
> 
> And, yes, do have a parent present. Sad but it is the only way I would work with a minor.
> 
> And I do a similar thing with adults. Am setting up a nude shoot right now and I've told the model she needs to bring either a boyfriend or girlfriend with her...


Don't do the boyfriend thing, you'll regret it.

I don't allow boyfriends or "agents".  They will get all weird on you most likely and make the shoot difficult if not impossible.  Girlfriends or a gay guy friend are fine, they stay out of the way.


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## Overread (Jul 11, 2009)

Certainly make sure the has a parent or guardian with her - also make sure you have model release forms and stuff ready as well for the parent and girl to sign - also don't overlook sitting them down to firmly *yet kindly* outline what the outcome from the shoot is to be and what and how your going to take the planned shots and stuff.  I am sure you will do all this anyway, just make sure that you don't forget anything 

C.cloudwalker - something I have picked up from some shooters is that boyfriends are often not the best company for a model on a nude shoot. Several said that they had their wives or a female assistant on hand to help - since you can direct your wife/GF/assitant far easier than a stranger for positioning the model and the model in question is less likley to resist a females touch than a pervy guy with a camera


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## patrickt (Jul 11, 2009)

My opinion is that if you're shooting nudes or lingerie, stick with adults.


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## Phranquey (Jul 11, 2009)

I've seen a lot of models like that on both Model Mayhem & One Model Place....kinda scary.  This is why it's very important to make photocopies of ID (preferably two forms) to staple with a model release.


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## KmH (Jul 11, 2009)

+1.....Critical advice.


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## c.cloudwalker (Jul 11, 2009)

Well, it has been a while since I have worked at my photo and it shows. You are right about boyfriends. Used to use mostly friends and since my friends are mostly artists they were no problems with those models. A lot of us modeled for each other so it was no big deal...

I remember the one and only non-friend who came to a shoot with her boyfriend and IT WAS a disaster. Which is why she was the one and only. Thank you guys for reminding me of that. Thankfully this woman I'm going to shoot said she wasn't comfortable having her boyfriend around so, she should be showing up with a girlfriend.

I do however want a friend of the model, not a friend of mine. This person is not there to work, that person is there as a witness 

Thanks again for the reminder. There are definitely some things I need to re-learn.


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## Actor (Jul 11, 2009)

tharmsen said:


> But if you ran into this girl and she didn't tell you she was 16 would you think to ask for ID?



Absolutely!!

I know of stores that, if you look under 40, won't sell tobacco or booze to you without ID.  Good policy for photographers too!


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## Josh66 (Jul 11, 2009)

Actor said:


> tharmsen said:
> 
> 
> > But if you ran into this girl and she didn't tell you she was 16 would you think to ask for ID?
> ...



Yes, but how often do they actually do it?

I _know_ I don't look 40.  I rarely get carded...


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## Actor (Jul 11, 2009)

O|||||||O said:


> Actor said:
> 
> 
> > tharmsen said:
> ...



It's a good policy, period!

Here in Ohio stores that sell tobacco or alcohol to minors do so at their peril.  Stores have been shut down.

Likewise, if you neglect to card your model, you do so at your peril.


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## musicaleCA (Jul 11, 2009)

patrickt said:


> My opinion is that if you're shooting nudes or lingerie, stick with adults.



For nudes, it's generally the law that you can't shoot minors anyway, regardless of what releases are signed by the parents.


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## c.cloudwalker (Jul 11, 2009)

musicaleCA said:


> patrickt said:
> 
> 
> > My opinion is that if you're shooting nudes or lingerie, stick with adults.
> ...





Dang! *The OP was not asking about shooting nudes of a minor*. I brought up the nude thing as a kind of side trip but talking about adults. Please people read the entire thread.

Sorry about that Mr. OP.


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## Big (Jul 11, 2009)

:shock: Cuff me now... I can't believe girls look like that at that age!


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## inTempus (Jul 12, 2009)

Big said:


> :shock: Cuff me now... I can't believe girls look like that at that age!


I know!  If I were a bouncer at a bar I probably wouldn't card her... hell, I'd probably hit on her.  I can't believe she's 16 and that fully developed.  Not normal at all and scary!


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## Josh66 (Jul 12, 2009)

tharmsen said:


> Big said:
> 
> 
> > :shock: Cuff me now... I can't believe girls look like that at that age!
> ...



When's the last time you've been to the mall?

...They all look like that now.


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## inTempus (Jul 12, 2009)

Here's a girl I shot today.  She's 18.  I won't shoot less than 18... or I haven't I should say.  I don't know if I would do it even with a parent... it just seems creepy.

This is a great looking girl, very sweet too.


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## Josh66 (Jul 12, 2009)

Hmmm...  Not a fan of the wide angle...  The first one is nice, but the other two are just too much...




I know you didn't post them for C&C or anything like that, I just couldn't help myself...


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## peanutbuttersports (Jul 12, 2009)

to the topic

body looks 22 or so

face lloks 16 or so


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## inTempus (Jul 12, 2009)

O|||||||O said:


> Hmmm...  Not a fan of the wide angle...  The first one is nice, but the other two are just too much...


I like the wide angle, you don't know what's good.  

Here's the second one pretty much out of the camera.  Do you like it better?


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## peanutbuttersports (Jul 12, 2009)

its better


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## Josh66 (Jul 12, 2009)

tharmsen said:


> I like the wide angle, you don't know what's good.


Maybe...



tharmsen said:


> Here's the second one pretty much out of the camera.  Do you like it better?



Honestly, I'm having a hard time seeing the difference...
The first one you posted has a little more processing, but the difference is negligible.


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## inTempus (Jul 12, 2009)

O|||||||O said:


> Honestly, I'm having a hard time seeing the difference...
> The first one you posted has a little more processing, but the difference is negligible.


The first one is desaturated a little, sharpened and more contrasty.  So what are ya complaining about?


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## Josh66 (Jul 12, 2009)

tharmsen said:


> So what are ya complaining about?



Her legs are too small.


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## inTempus (Jul 12, 2009)

O|||||||O said:


> tharmsen said:
> 
> 
> > So what are ya complaining about?
> ...


You need to step outside of your creative box man.  There's more to life than dead centered pics with no distortion.


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## Josh66 (Jul 12, 2009)

...All I'm sayin' is I want more legs...


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## Restomage (Jul 12, 2009)

Looks 18 to me.


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## Jeffro (Jul 12, 2009)

Think we are getting off topic again but what the hell do I know!!! 

I would still id her at the bar!!!


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## Actor (Jul 12, 2009)

Big said:


> :shock: Cuff me now... I can't believe girls look like that at that age!



I raised three girls and at 16 they all looked like that.  By "look like that" I assume you are referring to their (ahem!) size.


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## Jeffro (Jul 12, 2009)

I watch my sister in law get (ahem) them it was like one day she was 12 and what ever then she was 16 and WTF!!!!  now she is 18 and we kinda mess with her head all the time!!  but really it was like over night she went from girl to WTF???  

then all her friends come over from time to time and I go to the store!   lol it is Insane Hell I am only 30 and I dont remember 16 year olds and 17 years olds lookin like that !


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## Phranquey (Jul 12, 2009)

Jeffro said:


> Hell I am only 30 and I dont remember 16 year olds and 17 years olds lookin like that !


 
Whew....I'm glad other people see this....I didn't want to say it. :blushing:

I'm 39, and my stepson is 18 and just graduated. Whenever he would bring over friends for pool parties, I would have to head back into the house......I felt like the proverbial dirty old man. They weren't built like that 20 years ago, and they wore a bit more cloth around a swimming pool.


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## Phranquey (Jul 12, 2009)

tharmsen said:


> Here's a girl I shot today. She's 18. I won't shoot less than 18... or I haven't I should say. I don't know if I would do it even with a parent... it just seems creepy.
> 
> This is a great looking girl, very sweet too.


 

I really like #1.  

I am a fan of wide angle.... But.... The way her proportions look at that angle (2 & 3) remind me of a charicature bobblehead.


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## Big (Jul 12, 2009)

Actor said:


> Big said:
> 
> 
> > :shock: Cuff me now... I can't believe girls look like that at that age!
> ...


I wasn't even talking specifically about those, I meant in general. She's gorgeous from head to toe!


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## Big (Jul 12, 2009)

O|||||||O said:


> tharmsen said:
> 
> 
> > Big said:
> ...


Ok...I admit to knowing but I didn't want to come off as a pervert that checks out all the girls...haha


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## hopdaddy (Jul 12, 2009)

:chatty:My daughter is seventeen


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## Actor (Jul 12, 2009)

Big said:


> O|||||||O said:
> 
> 
> > tharmsen said:
> ...



You MUST read _The Sensuous Dirty Old Man_ by Isaac Asimov.  If you can find a copy.


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## Actor (Jul 12, 2009)

Jeffro said:


> Hell I am only 30 and I dont remember 16 year olds and 17 years olds lookin like that !



I'm 65 and they've looked like that since puberty!  MY puberty!


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## Big (Jul 14, 2009)

Actor said:


> You MUST read _The Sensuous Dirty Old Man_ by Isaac Asimov.  If you can find a copy.


Sounds like my dad...:lmao:


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## eleganteye (Jul 29, 2009)

tharmsen said:


> would you think to ask for ID?



I always get a photo of their driver's license. Started doing it after the first few years when someone asked me how old a model was, and how I knew (my answer at the time was that she told me.)


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## JerryPH (Jul 29, 2009)

Wow, what an EASY way to potentially get tossed in jail and add in general to the mayhem surrounding the already bad press photographers already have.

This sunday, I have a shoot with 5 models... you can bet your house that I *already* have signed model releases and copies of driver's licenses. I'm adding a 4X6 head shot that will be added to the folder of each model.

On top of this, this is not even a paid shoot, just a TFP (Trade For Photos), and we have makeup artists and hairdressers in on the whole deal just to have some fun... still I would never even consider not having them all sign a waiver and if underage... sorry, not interested... unless you bring your mom or dad to the session.

Personally, I am at the age now where I see that hooter size alone doesn't make someone a mature adult or a woman.  I will shoot anyone at any age from baby to geriatrics... but when it comes to minors, I want model releases signed by the parents AND the models and I want a parent in attendance.  If a parent or a close relative like an uncle or aunt cannot come along, I will not take the shoot.

It is embarrassing to say, but I turned down my first chance to do a very heavy boudoire session becuase the model was 17 and did not want to sign a waiver nor have her parent there.  She felt that because she was old enough to get married that the law concerning minors no longer concerned her.  Wrong!  I refused the job... referred her to another photographer who is JUST as adamant on waiver signings and parent being in attendance.  Hopefully she will get the idea that she has a little ways to go before she is LEGALLY able to have nude pictures taken of her without her parent's consent.


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## farmerj (Jul 29, 2009)

hopdaddy said:


> :chatty:My daughter is seventeen




Mine is 15.......:er:


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## c.cloudwalker (Jul 29, 2009)

^^^^^

"...Farmer John, I'm in love with your daughter..."


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## UUilliam (Jul 29, 2009)

Hey 16 is legal 
I find it so stupid...

over here:
16 you can have sex,
"A boy of any age is not prohibited in law from having sex with a           female provided she is sixteen or over." in otherwords am ale is legally allowed to have sex when he is 12 if he wants? but a female needs to be 16...
Have a kid,
Drink Cider WITH A MEAL
Join the army, Be arrested
get married
Be charged for dental treatment (NHS over here we pay tax's which pay for dental treatment yet we need to pay...)
Pay adult price on bus' trains etc...
we can drive a glider
change our name 
YET
we cannot:
Drink, Smoke, Drive, Watch porn, Star in porn or shoot porn or sell Booze....

I think id rather my kid watch porn than have sex tbh...


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## redtippmann (Jul 29, 2009)

your in college and only 16. Im 15 and still in high school!


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## fokker (Jul 29, 2009)

redtippmann said:


> your in college and only 16. Im 15 and still in high school!


 
college=high school


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## msp1488 (Jul 29, 2009)

EDITED


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## IgsEMT (Jul 29, 2009)

EDITED


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## musicaleCA (Jul 30, 2009)

*rolls eyes*

JerryPH, have you ever settled for a close relative? Because legally I don't think they can sign a model release on behalf of the minor. As far as I can tell from reading the laws here (and federal laws that may apply), the release has to be signed by the model (minor) and a parent or legal guardian (and then having the legal guardian and another witness to both sign and be there are insurance).

Either way, I won't shoot a minor without a parent or legal guardian, no exceptions. There's a gal on MM I'd like to shoot, but she's seventeen and can't convince her parent to take the time to let her model, so I told her to wait until her birthday and *then* we can shoot. Fair is fair; I don't want to end up in jail before 30. >.<


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## UUilliam (Jul 30, 2009)

fokker said:


> redtippmann said:
> 
> 
> > your in college and only 16. Im 15 and still in high school!
> ...


Nah, I'm in college = big school with people about 30 n all  I turn 17 on September the 1st this year... been out of high school for 2 years now (left on may 5th 2008. when i was 15.)
I've had 1 year out of education in which i worked like a headless chicken tp buy my photog stuff... only spent about £1.5 - 2k on it (including my laptop.)

Camera + lens = £480
50mm f1.8 ii = £100
75-300mm f4.5-5.6 USM = £45
opteka 500-1000mm mirror lens = £120
BG-E5 Hahnel Battery grip = £90
Laptop = £530
tripod = £30
Manfrotto monopod 6809= £30*
Manfrotto 484RC2 = £30*
Lowepro Slingshot AW 300 = £40
16 gb sdCard = £18
16 gb SD card = £20
8gb SD card = £10
Epson Sx600fs = £110

+ i have a few more stuff (totalling about £100 - £200.)


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## Misfitlimp (Jul 30, 2009)

Overread said:


> Certainly make sure the has a parent or guardian with her - also make sure you have model release forms and stuff ready as well for the parent and girl to sign - also don't overlook sitting them down to firmly *yet kindly* outline what the outcome from the shoot is to be and what and how your going to take the planned shots and stuff. I am sure you will do all this anyway, just make sure that you don't forget anything
> 
> C.cloudwalker - something I have picked up from some shooters is that boyfriends are often not the best company for a model on a nude shoot. Several said that they had their wives or a female assistant on hand to help - since you can direct your wife/GF/assitant far easier than a stranger for positioning the model and the model in question is less likley to resist a females touch than a pervy guy with a camera


 
U guys got a realese form i can steal from ya? or a site where i can grab one? that would b great


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## musicaleCA (Jul 30, 2009)

American Society of Media Photographers


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## c.cloudwalker (Jul 30, 2009)

Misfitlimp said:


> U guys got a realese form i can steal from ya? or a site where i can grab one? that would b great



When you do a release, there are some state specific things involved. Some people use a general type one but I don't, sorry.

However, it is fairly easy to find one on the net. Just google photography model release and you'll get legal sites where you'll enter your specifics to get your release.


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