# Any desktop PC geeks here?



## JimMcClain (Aug 22, 2014)

Are there enough desktop PC geeks here to discuss new computer builds? Is this the right forum section to do it in?

I've decided that my aging machine needs to be retired. I have plenty of experience building computers, but mostly for show (I used to be a modder and was featured last in CPU Magazine's Oct. 2003 issue). My lungs won't let me do all that grinding, cutting and painting anymore, but I think I can handle assembly.

My biggest problem is not following the technology for the last several years. My last build was intended to last the rest of my life, so when it was done, I quit reading about PC gear and participating in the modding forums. But them damn doctors cain't get nuthin' right and I'm still here. Now I want to put together a machine that will handle these huge file sizes digital photography produces and managing them with high end programs like Lightroom and Photoshop.

Another big problem is money. My income is very limited, so I have to figure it will take many months to get all the right gear for this new machine. Buying a D5300 and a couple lenses, a tripod, etc. took most of my disposable income last month. Been trying to sell stuff I don't use and can live without on ebay. I don't mind it taking a little time though, as long as it's, you know, like the next week or so. Dreaming, of course.

So, last week I ordered a Corsair Obsidian Series 350D Performance Micro ATX Computer Case. It will fit nicely under my desk and still let me put my headphones on top when I'm not using them (I live in a thin-walled apartment and like my music and movies loud). My current machine is a mATX and it's plenty big enough for my needs. This case is a little taller, but not as deep and has plenty of room inside for the gear I think I will use and still have good air flow.

Last night I ordered a couple of SDDs (solid state drives): Samsung 128GB 850 PRO Series SATA 2.5" SSD MZ-7KE128BW B&H One will be for my OS, Windows 7 Professional (haven't decided if I wanna go to 8.1) and most of my programs. The other will be used for the PS scratch drive, the Windows page file and possibly the LR catalog. My current plan is to also get a 500GB SSD for storage of images and other files. My current machine has only a single 500GB HDD with about half of it free, so when the time comes, I think I can just add an additional SDD. Some research I did suggested 4 drives to handle the work (a 4th was used for current projects and the LR catalog), but I think 3 will work for me. I think I like the idea of going all SSD this time. I've never used SSDs before.

Not sure I should continue here. Everyone hates a lifeless discussion. I'm hoping there are at least a few PC enthusiasts that would be interested in a discussion about building a powerful desktop machine and willing to offer their ideas and advice. I'm not sure what else will go into this build. Looking at Intel LGA 1150 4th gen processors, maybe a Z97 chipset micro ATX mobo and a NVIDIA Quadro graphics card. But I'm not sure I should even be discussing this all here, if no one is interested.

Jim


----------



## Scatterbrained (Aug 22, 2014)

Personally, I run two SSDs (Samsung 840 Pro), one for software and one for page/temp/scratch/VM etc.  I keep my images in external RAID enclosures (LaCie 2Big Quadra).  As far as advice about what to get, I don't think I can be of too much help there.  When it comes time to build a machine, I just start perusing NewEgg to see what is at the top of each category; then I search the web for reviews.  Normally I end up compromising to get the best performance I can within a limited budget too.  My machine isn't comprised of the "best of the best" but it acquits itself competently.


----------



## pthrift (Aug 22, 2014)

Subscribed for the info.  I've built a pc, once, in a classroom setting; and it never worked.  Granted there were 15 sets of hands working on it. 

But I've never been brave enough to scratch build my own. 
I also dont have enough tech background to make suggestions as to who and what to put inside the case.


----------



## xzyragon (Aug 22, 2014)

If your income is limited, i'd avoid spending money on that many SSD's.  One is fine for boot and primary editing files, then store the rest on a 7200RPM HDD.  60GB is plenty as a bootable + working files SSD.  128GB would be good if you tend to get sloppy.  1TB 7200rpm HDD's are like $70 - $100, and you'll definitely use a lot of it.

Make sure your mobo fits in the case.  Once you do, make sure that your GPU fits on your mobo in the case.  That's the hardest part with powerful GPUs and micro cases.  As far as which one, find a good, reputable brand, make sure it's reliable, and make sure that it's in your budget and has the features you want.  If you plan on bridging GPU's, you'll need 2 PCI slots.  Additional slots will be needed for any cards you put in (sound cards, extra nics, etc).

As far as GPU's, I'm not experienced with NVIDIA cards, but if you are short on cash, you could get a half decent card and then bridge it later on.  I know NVIDIA's bridging is (or at least was) a lot better than radeon's.  GPU's in my experience are a "research a little, but you get what you pay for" kind of deal.  The more cash you have to drop, the better card you're going to get.  This is important for gaming and videos, but relatively unimportant for photo editing, especially if you use LR/PS (LR and PS are highly core dependent, and utilize little of the GPU's power).

Make sure your PSU can handle your mobo, GPU, and CPU (especially if you plan on OCing your CPU).

On the topic of CPU's, the number of cores helps if you plan on processing lots of thing simultaneously, and isn't as big of a deal if you're gaming.  Assuming this is primarily a editing machine, go with more cores over a higher clock speed.  I'd go with intel as well.  The processors are more robust, run cooler, but are a little higher priced (because of their advantages).  Regardless of your processor, get an aftermarket CPU fan (and make sure it can fit in the case).  Liquid cooling is overkill unless you're a die-hard overclocker, but if you can find a good deal (<$60 for a reputable brand) i'd take it.  Otherwise the nicer air cooled CPU fans are excellent for most usage.

For RAM, i'd just go with 16gb unless you're out of budget and have to drop down to 8gb.  LR + OS on my computer alone takes up 3-4gb.  Add in 15 tabs of chrome and i'm up to 6gb.  Make sure your mobo can support whatever RAM you decide to buy.

And don't forget your OS and peripherals.  A decent monitor will run you $100 - $300, depending on size, latency, and quality.  I prefer gaming mice for their high DPI's and extra buttons, along with the added weight. 

Have fun building your PC though!  It's super fun!


----------



## Msteelio91 (Aug 22, 2014)

3 Drives is plenty but a 500g for all your pictures might fill faster than you'd expect, depending on what you're storing. 

As for the rest:
-Mobo: DON'T LIMIT YOURSELF. The last thing you want to replace is the motherboard, get one with an updated chipset. Intel is fine but look at the newer slots. 
-Processor: Same as above, these two components are critical. 
-RAM: 8gb, DDR3 or 4. Look around, there are a ton of good sales on RAM right now. Look at benchmarks.
-GPU: Tons of great units out there, look at benchmarks. I like nvidia's geforce line personally. 

You mention a limited budget. I'd say for sub $650 you could build a very capable machine. Search Amazon, newegg, dealnews, woot, even eBay.

Here's a nice little site that might help you get back in the mindset of all this stuff: Logical Increments - PC Buying Guide


----------



## 407370 (Aug 22, 2014)

I dont know if it is the correct forum either but...

Why all the SSD's ? I went for a single SSD big enough for OS and SYS files and filled the other slots with 2TB drives.

I use mine for 3D rendering and an overclocked Third gen I7 with 32Gb of 1600Mhz ram alongside a GTX 560 GPU and plenty of extra cooling in a full size Gigabyte case is a speed machine with stability. I built this about 6 months ago so these bits should set you back a lot less than I paid for them. I paid around 5000 Qatari Riyals for the bits (I have no clue what currency conversion rates are) and for photography would be overkill unless you would be doing video as well. One extra useful addition was a multi media reader so I can directly transfer pics from cards to sticks, very useful for me.

I am not a modder but I have always built my own PC's.

If you think I can help let me know.

CHEERS


----------



## JimMcClain (Aug 22, 2014)

Normally, I would multi-quote all the replies I get and then just make my comments between, but there's a lot to comment on and I don't want one post to be so long no one wants to read it, so here's one at a time:


Scatterbrained said:


> Personally, I run two SSDs (Samsung 840 Pro), one for software and one for page/temp/scratch/VM etc.  I keep my images in external RAID enclosures (LaCie 2Big Quadra).  As far as advice about what to get, I don't think I can be of too much help there.  When it comes time to build a machine, I just start perusing NewEgg to see what is at the top of each category; then I search the web for reviews.  Normally I end up compromising to get the best performance I can within a limited budget too.  My machine isn't comprised of the "best of the best" but it acquits itself competently.



Samsung 840 Pros have tested very well, so good choice. You have storage set up basically they way I plan, except I want all machine drives to be SSD and will likely get an external drive for backups (I learned the value of backup, backup, backup in 1992 - luckily through someone else's experience) and always keep one backup drive off-premises. The 850 Pro series now includes RAPID, which helps speed reads and writes. It appears to be the fastest SSD available now. I considered M.2 SSDs, which claim 10Gb/s instead of 6, but the tech is still new and not many mobos utilize it yet.

Like you, I scour Newegg and other sites for reviews on all the best gear and try to make an educated decision based on my personal needs and budget.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Jim


----------



## JimMcClain (Aug 22, 2014)

xzyragon said:


> If your income is limited, i'd avoid spending money on that many SSD's.  One is fine for boot and primary editing files, then store the rest on a 7200RPM HDD.  60GB is plenty as a bootable + working files SSD.  128GB would be good if you tend to get sloppy.  1TB 7200rpm HDD's are like $70 - $100, and you'll definitely use a lot of it.


First things first: I said my income was limited, not my budget. Of course, I don't have an unlimited budget, but I plan to use quality components and cost will be lower on the scale than quality and performance.

My Windows folder alone is nearly 36GB. My program folders are just over 10GB. That's what I would want to put on the C: drive and 60GB just isn't enough. There should be at least 20% free space on a drive and even a little more is better. Too much, of course, isn't good either, but there should be no defragmenting routines going on with an SSD, so giving the system files a little space to move around is a good thing. Cramping them is not. I don't want HDDs, mostly because it's old tech and SSD will soon be the drives of choice for speed and reliability.



> Make sure your mobo fits in the case.  Once you do, make sure that your GPU fits on your mobo in the case.  That's the hardest part with powerful GPUs and micro cases.  As far as which one, find a good, reputable brand, make sure it's reliable, and make sure that it's in your budget and has the features you want.  If you plan on bridging GPU's, you'll need 2 PCI slots.  Additional slots will be needed for any cards you put in (sound cards, extra nics, etc).


Agree with all of that. My last machine I had to return/exchange a GPU because the one I wanted wouldn't allow me to close the case, even though the published dimensions said it would. But the Corsair case is a bit larger than the average micro ATX case and I did enough research to be pretty sure all the mATX motherboards available will fit and most quality GPUs will not be a problem except in length. Since I don't plan to use any internal HDDs, the HDD cage can be removed and any GPU I can afford will fit. Limited income also means I will be able to get the mobo and take measurements prior to buying the GPU. And one is enough for me. I already have a sound card that's still quite nice, and all the mobos I've looked at have room for it. I don't need much else on the board.



> As far as GPU's, I'm not experienced with NVIDIA cards, but if you are short on cash, you could get a half decent card and then bridge it later on.  I know NVIDIA's bridging is (or at least was) a lot better than radeon's.  GPU's in my experience are a "research a little, but you get what you pay for" kind of deal.  The more cash you have to drop, the better card you're going to get.  This is important for gaming and videos, but relatively unimportant for photo editing, especially if you use LR/PS (LR and PS are highly core dependent, and utilize little of the GPU's power).


I notice when questions about type of GPU for photoshop come up, the most recommended are NVIDIA Quadro. These are workstation GPUs. Although they will prob'ly work fine for gaming, I don't do gaming. Never have. I do watch videos online, which most consumer oriented dedicated GPUs can handle, but some programs, especially Photoshop, can benefit from the advanced features of a quality workstation card.



> Make sure your PSU can handle your mobo, GPU, and CPU (especially if you plan on OCing your CPU).


Yep. I'm not into overclocking anything, but the components I choose will be power hungry. 750 watts minimum is the goal.



> On the topic of CPU's, the number of cores helps if you plan on processing lots of thing simultaneously, and isn't as big of a deal if you're gaming.  Assuming this is primarily a editing machine, go with more cores over a higher clock speed.  I'd go with intel as well.  The processors are more robust, run cooler, but are a little higher priced (because of their advantages).  Regardless of your processor, get an aftermarket CPU fan (and make sure it can fit in the case).  Liquid cooling is overkill unless you're a die-hard overclocker, but if you can find a good deal (<$60 for a reputable brand) i'd take it.  Otherwise the nicer air cooled CPU fans are excellent for most usage.


All good advice. I've been looking at i7 and i5 Haswell processors. I used to do marketing for Cooler Master and still get a great deal on their products. I like their CPU coolers a lot, so I'll have to see what will fit when that time comes.



> For RAM, i'd just go with 16gb unless you're out of budget and have to drop down to 8gb.  LR + OS on my computer alone takes up 3-4gb.  Add in 15 tabs of chrome and i'm up to 6gb.  Make sure your mobo can support whatever RAM you decide to buy.









 32GB!



> And don't forget your OS and peripherals.  A decent monitor will run you $100 - $300, depending on size, latency, and quality.  I prefer gaming mice for their high DPI's and extra buttons, along with the added weight.


I will keep using my current monitor. It's an LG, 22", of pretty good quality until I can manage a monitor that supports internal programmable LUTs for calibration and color space matching. Budget-friendly monitors like this go for >$500.00. I've been a trackball kinda guy since the beginning. I have gone through 8 or 9 Kensington Expert Mouse trackballs and tried half a dozen or more other trackballs and keep coming back to this big block of plastic. I would like to try working with a Wacom Intuos though.



> Have fun building your PC though!  It's super fun!


It is. It has been a while, but I have built every computer I have owned since 1991, except the first one and a couple tablets I've bought. I miss the modding part some, but my last machine was modded very little, but the build was a lot of fun. The research gives me a headache though - there's so much good stuff out there that sometimes isn't compatible with each other.

Thanks,

Jim


----------



## MOREGONE (Aug 22, 2014)

For archival storage I would still go with HDD's. A 500gb SSD is easy to fill up with these high MP cameras and will be pretty costly for files you are only storing (mostly). You could have redundant storage with higher capacity for the price of a 500gb SSD. That's just my .02 

I currently have a 128gb SSD for my OS and project files, then a 3tb NAS (3tb x2, RAID 1) and am really pleased with it. I don't follow the latest and greatest hardware but am extremely happy with my setup. 12gb RAM (1x8, 2x2 (not running dual channel i've been told)) and am pleasantly surprised every time I go from LR > PS > LR. So quick now that I have an SSD for the project and OS.

Either way, sounds like you're well on your way to a serious machine.


----------



## xzyragon (Aug 22, 2014)

JimMcClain said:


> My Windows folder alone is nearly 36GB. My program folders are just over 10GB. That's what I would want to put on the C: drive and 60GB just isn't enough. There should be at least 20% free space on a drive and even a little more is better. Too much, of course, isn't good either, but there should be no defragmenting routines going on with an SSD, so giving the system files a little space to move around is a good thing. Cramping them is not. I don't want HDDs, mostly because it's old tech and SSD will soon be the drives of choice for speed and reliability.



Understood.  I'm just saying if you're in a budget crunch, you'll get a lot more storage per cent with an HDD than with an SSD.  And not all your files need 24/7 high speed access either.  Considering SSDs are at $0.50 per gig while HDDs are $0.07 per gig (for a TB), it's a cost friendly alternative that doesn't hamper too much performance.



JimMcClain said:


> Agree with all of that. My last machine I had to return/exchange a GPU because the one I wanted wouldn't allow me to close the case, even though the published dimensions said it would. But the Corsair case is a bit larger than the average micro ATX case and I did enough research to be pretty sure all the mATX motherboards available will fit and most quality GPUs will not be a problem except in length. Since I don't plan to use any internal HDDs, the HDD cage can be removed and any GPU I can afford will fit. Limited income also means I will be able to get the mobo and take measurements prior to buying the GPU. And one is enough for me. I already have a sound card that's still quite nice, and all the mobos I've looked at have room for it. I don't need much else on the board.



Well it depends on how far down the mobo the PCI slot is.  But if the bays are removeable, then you should be fine.



JimMcClain said:


> I notice when questions about type of GPU for photoshop come up, the most recommended are NVIDIA Quadro. These are workstation GPUs. Although they will prob'ly work fine for gaming, I don't do gaming. Never have. I do watch videos online, which most consumer oriented dedicated GPUs can handle, but some programs, especially Photoshop, can benefit from the advanced features of a quality workstation card.



if you aren't doing any gaming, don't spend more than $100 on a GPU.  Photoshop and LR only use the GPU to power the display, but don't utilize any of it's processing power.  It's in Adobe's statement.  But, a $100 card should give you the ability to do a decent multi-monitor setup, and if you do decide to go into video editing, you can always crossfire / bridge cards later on.



JimMcClain said:


> Yep. I'm not into overclocking anything, but the components I choose will be power hungry. 750 watts minimum is the goal.



Again, you could save money by going with a decent 600 watt PSU.  It's not as scalable, but it'll save you a good $40 to $50.  Especially if you don't OC and don't have a top of the line GPU, there's no way your system is going to be pulling more than 400 watts at peak power.  Mine hits 500 watts at peak, and my CPU is overclocked from 3.3 to 4.0, my GPU is overclocked from 1.0 to 1.2, and i'm running a couple peripherals.



JimMcClain said:


> All good advice. I've been looking at i7 and i5 Haswell processors. I used to do marketing for Cooler Master and still get a great deal on their products. I like their CPU coolers a lot, so I'll have to see what will fit when that time comes.



I love my coolermaster evo.  It's just a little tall (slightly taller than my GPU), so if your GPU is a tight fit, then you might have to custom rig your case.



JimMcClain said:


> 32GB!


I mean running 32gb is up to you, but if you aren't doing serious computing, its completely unnecessary.  If you are adamant, just make sure your mobo can handle 32gb.  

Thanks,

Jim[/QUOTE]


----------



## Overread (Aug 22, 2014)

On the subject of operating systems, based on what you've said thus far, honestly I'd say go with Win 8.1. The interface elements threw a lot of users, but honestly most intermediate to advanced users will have little problem adjusting (esp now since they've refined a few things). 

Right click to find the shut-down command on the windows symbol is about all you need to really remember; if you want the start menu back you can either find it in the windows folder (I just stuck a short-cut to it on my desktop) or you can get a number of cheap programs online that simulate the effect of the windows button on the computer. (of course only get from trusted sources - I've not looked in them but I know that Stardock make one).

Otherwise win 8.1 has run smooth - fast and clean for me. It shuts down and boots up in a tiny amount of time (well under a minute) and I've not had many if any real errors (about the only problem is 5 or so games that don't run or run with some performance issues on it - saying that 1 of those hasn't run on anything since XP days). 8.1 got a lot of bad press and if MS had just put the start button back in (and hadn't originally had it boot to the metro instead of hte desktop* screen) then they'd have had a very popular OS release.


*It now boots right into the desktop  no more silly metro screen as default


----------



## MOREGONE (Aug 22, 2014)

Overread said:


> On the subject of operating systems, based on what you've said thus far, honestly I'd say go with Win 8.1. The interface elements threw a lot of users, but honestly most intermediate to advanced users will have little problem adjusting (esp now since they've refined a few things).
> 
> Right click to find the shut-down command on the windows symbol is about all you need to really remember; if you want the start menu back you can either find it in the windows folder (I just stuck a short-cut to it on my desktop) or you can get a number of cheap programs online that simulate the effect of the windows button on the computer. (of course only get from trusted sources - I've not looked in them but I know that Stardock make one).
> 
> ...




Yeah, I am totally Okay with Windows 8. had a terrible upgrade experience on a laptop but when I used it on my desktop build it has been pleasant. There is still some room for preference between 7 and 8 but I don't think the stability or speed is really an issue with either. I myself like the Metro elements and only see it getting better from here.


----------



## JimMcClain (Aug 22, 2014)

Msteelio91 said:


> 3 Drives is plenty but a 500g for all your pictures might fill faster than you'd expect, depending on what you're storing.


True, but there's always an upgrade - either an additional drive (SSDs are very small and the case I ordered has room for quite a few), or replace one smaller capacity drive with a larger capacity drive. It's very easy to do as long as you aren't swapping out the OS/Programs drive (and even that can be accomplished with backup imaging, if the drives are identical except for capacity - go from the Samsung 850 Pro 128GB to a 850 Pro 256GB).


> Mobo: DON'T LIMIT YOURSELF. The last thing you want to replace is the motherboard, get one with an updated chipset. Intel is fine but look at the newer slots.


That's why I've been looking at the Z97 chipset boards. Too few reviews, but those I have found seem encouraging.


> -Processor: Same as above, these two components are critical.
> -RAM: 8gb, DDR3 or 4. Look around, there are a ton of good sales on RAM right now. Look at benchmarks.
> -GPU: Tons of great units out there, look at benchmarks. I like nvidia's geforce line personally.


See my post above. Keep in mind that I'm not building a gamer, but a workstation. Besides the renewed interest in photography, I have worked as a website designer/coder/graphics artist for a long time now and have been using MS Office Professional since the mid-ninties. One of my most computer resource intensive applications has been Adobe Fireworks. It doesn't let loose of those resources entirely when I close the app either. Same with a few other programs. It's normal and I hope to build a machine that doesn't have to sometimes be rebooted a couple times a day.


> You mention a limited budget. I'd say for sub $650 you could build a very capable machine. Search Amazon, newegg, dealnews, woot, even eBay.


Again, not a budget machine at all. It just will take more time to gather components. I am a regular on Newegg, Amazon and have my own ebay account. I like to shop, but I prefer to buy from more mainstream online dealers (I would buy locally, but there are no real computer stores here where I live). Although I sell on ebay, I buy very little.


> Here's a nice little site that might help you get back in the mindset of all this stuff: Logical Increments - PC Buying Guide


Good information there, except, like many computer enthusiast sites, they target gamers more than anything else. Still, it's another good resource I will add to my bookmarks. Thank you.

Jim


----------



## JimMcClain (Aug 22, 2014)

407370 said:


> Why all the SSD's ? I went for a single SSD big enough for OS and SYS files and filled the other slots with 2TB drives.


A Windows machine will boot faster if the boot drive is only populated with the OS and essential programs, whether that drive is HDD or SSD. This is especially true for the Samsung 850 Pro drives because the boot drive is the only one that can utilize their RAPID technology. The Windows paging file/swap file has always worked better as a single file size on a separate drive/partition. Since an SSD drive should not be partitioned, it's best to  have a single, small SSD set up just for the paging file and other, similar resources (incl. the Photoshop scratch file). I think it also works well as the location for the Windows temp & tmp files. The third drive, whether you prefer a traditional HDD or the newer tech SSD, is used for primary storage. That's where all your personal documents, pictures, videos, etc. go. Since my current setup uses a single 500GB HDD, I feel quite confident that the new system will work optimally with a 128GB OS/Programs SSD, a 128GB page/scratch/temporary files drive and a 500GB drive for all other storage. This also makes it far easier and safer to upgrade or replace individual drives.



> I use mine for 3D rendering and an overclocked Third gen I7 with 32Gb of 1600Mhz ram alongside a GTX 560 GPU and plenty of extra cooling in a full size Gigabyte case is a speed machine with stability. I built this about 6 months ago so these bits should set you back a lot less than I paid for them. I paid around 5000 Qatari Riyals for the bits (I have no clue what currency conversion rates are) and for photography would be overkill unless you would be doing video as well. One extra useful addition was a multi media reader so I can directly transfer pics from cards to sticks, very useful for me.
> 
> I am not a modder but I have always built my own PC's.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a pretty nice system. I do hope to try my hand at video too. I'd like to do some how-tos from a professional standpoint in the flooring industry - not production-wise, but pro flooring installer-wise. There's a lot of DIY videos and videos from guys who claim to be pros, but very few that actually comply with industry standards, etc. And as a webmaster for a couple of popular forums, I'd like to see if I can create a few how-tos for new forum users - at least in the areas I have the most experience. Anyway, I've always been a fan of quality, so this machine is one I want to reflect that. As I said, I don't have an unlimited budget, but I want to take the time necessary to put together a very strong computer. Who knows, if Nikon ever decides to come out with a full-frame camera that has an articulating rear monitor, I might want to jump on that. Some people think it's a feature more apropos for photography noobs. They forget that some of us who don't have the same mobility as normal people NEED that articulating screen. It is the only reason I have a D5300 now, instead of a D7100. If the Nikon rumors turn out to be true, I may be able to move up to full-frame and will need a much more powerful computer than the one I have now.

Your participation is always welcome. Don't hesitate to share your ideas and opinions. The nice thing about forums is the content is here for a very long time and will get found by others in similar situations. There's been great advice for those looking to build budget machines that will help a lot of people. My computer won't necessarily fit in the budget category, but a discussion of all the possibilities will help all kinds of people looking to build or upgrade computers for a long time to come.

Thanks,

Jim


----------



## JimMcClain (Aug 22, 2014)

MOREGONE said:


> For archival storage I would still go with HDD's. A 500gb SSD is easy to fill up with these high MP cameras and will be pretty costly for files you are only storing (mostly). You could have redundant storage with higher capacity for the price of a 500gb SSD. That's just my .02


I agree, but archival storage to me is an external drive array - one is always kept off-site and rotated with the on-site backup drive. It's not just for backups, but also for storing those files from the 90s I don't want to remember. 

Jim


----------



## robbins.photo (Aug 22, 2014)

Jim, 

A couple of quick thoughts - ok, first I'd go with the 2 smaller SSD's, but I would not recommend the 500 gb.  I think you'll be far better served getting a large hard drive for storage, a 2 or possibly 3 tb - if you'd like you can even go external for now.  Wait for the next gen of SSD's, at least, before getting a big SSD drive.  The price per gig is prohibitive, and SSD's do have a limited life cycle, at least for now.  They are getting closer and closer to the sort of MTF you can get with a standard hard drive (mean time to failure), but they are not there yet.  So I really do think for now your better of with one much larger, much cheaper storage drive for photo's and whatever else you might need.

Later on you can get the next gen of SSD's with what will likely be much better MTF and at much cheaper $ per gig price, and then you can always use your large HDD for backup purposes.  In the long run I think it will be a much better investment overall.

Ok, piece of advice #2 - when it comes to memory don't skimp and always buy in sets.  You will always get your best results buying the same brand all at once rather than trying to mix and match.  When possible, fill your available slots with name brand chips that are all the same size (IE, all 2 GB, or all 4 GB, or all 8 GB, etc...), all the same speed, all from the same manufacturer and preferably all bought at the same time from the same vendor.  Don't mix and match.  Yes, the system will still run - but you'd be surprised at the difference it can make in speed and stability by following this general rule.

Power supply - again, don't skimp.  Think of it as a long term investment - don't buy a power supply for the PC your building right now, buy one for your next PC in mind instead.  I've seen more than one high powered PC build go awry because somebody started with a lower end power supply, worked fine at first but after they added say another video card to the system and maybe another component or two suddenly they started developing all sorts of strange problems that were difficult to trace.  Turns out it was usually the power supply itself just wasn't able to keep up with everything they added into the system.

A few years back I bought a Lian Li case and 1000 watt power supply.  My friend who was also a fellow computer tech thought I was completely daffy for dropping that much on a case and power supply - but I've gone through 3 builds reusing the same case, same power supply - never had to replace either.  He on the other hand has gone through 4 power supply upgrades in that same time frame, and at the moment he's running an 800 watt unit.  In the end he spent more money than I did by buying the 4 different power supplies than I did buying the more expensive one up front.  Again, something to think of as a long term investment.


----------



## JimMcClain (Aug 22, 2014)

xzyragon said:


> I'm just saying if you're in a budget crunch, you'll get a lot more storage per cent with an HDD than with an SSD.  And not all your files need 24/7 high speed access either.  Considering SSDs are at $0.50 per gig while HDDs are $0.07 per gig (for a TB), it's a cost friendly alternative that doesn't hamper too much performance.





> if you aren't doing any gaming, don't spend more than $100 on a GPU.  Photoshop and LR only use the GPU to power the display, but don't utilize any of it's processing power.  It's in Adobe's statement.





> Again, you could save money by going with a decent 600 watt PSU.  It's not as scalable, but it'll save you a good $40 to $50.





> I mean running 32gb is up to you, but if you aren't doing serious computing, its completely unnecessary.  If you are adamant, just make sure your mobo can handle 32gb.


I think you missed the part where I said this isn't a budget build. All great advice for those reading this that are going for a budget build, but I'm not. 

I was slow in moving from hand-held calculators, note pads and pencils and typewritten letters and invoices to my first computer in 1991. I was slow in getting my first earring (I got mine when it was important to know the distinction in having one in one ear and not the other). I was slow in getting my first microwave oven. I was slow in realizing that dating 2 different women at the same time was not a sin. I was even slow at getting on-board with Windows XP. I refuse to be slow in adopting the advantages of SSD technology. This new machine will be all SSD and I hope to replace my external HDD backup system when I can't rely on it anymore (I remember the time I had to freeze a drive to recover data - and refreeze and refreeze to get every last thing). HDDs have moving parts that fail. SSDs don't. That's not to say an SSD won't fail, but the better SSDs are stable, sturdy and reliable. More so than any HDD has ever been. Yes, they are more expensive. That is not as important to me as all the other benefits of SSD. Yes, SSD is faster than needed for retrieving files. So is a 7200 RPM disk that only contains personal files.

You may have read an old statement from Adobe. Since Photoshop CS5, there are new GPU-accellerated features that better quality cards can exploit. Photoshop CS5 and 6 automatically detects NVIDIA GeForce or Quadro GPUs to enable these accelerated features.

I'm not interested in saving money by getting a 600 watt PSU when a 750 watter will provide me with abundant power and security. It's better to have more, than just plain adequate - and scalability should be factored into a higher end machine.

I have 16GB of RAM in my current machine and it lags. It also has a good i5 2.67MhZ processor. But the programs and tasks I do regularly tend to make work sluggish. I noticed this even more since beginning to use Lightroom and dealing with the large RAW file sizes. If I want to move up to a full-frame camera some day, I'll need more computing power than I have. This machine, like the last, has to be built with the thought that it will likely be my last. I want it to be powerful enough to keep me satisfied for whatever time I have left. Hopefully, that will be another 5+ years.

Again though, all your advice is valuable and I am sure much appreciated for those wanting to build or upgrade a budget system. Thank you.

Jim


----------



## JimMcClain (Aug 22, 2014)

Overread said:


> On the subject of operating systems, based on what you've said thus far, honestly I'd say go with Win 8.1. The interface elements threw a lot of users, but honestly most intermediate to advanced users will have little problem adjusting (esp now since they've refined a few things).


I cut a lot of what you said, but all of it was good to read. I've been trying not to think too much about making this a Windows 8.1 machine, but if what I just said to another member about being slow to get on board with new tech is true, then I better think again about upgrading my Windows experience. Thanks for sharing your experience and opinion.

Jim


----------



## JimMcClain (Aug 22, 2014)

robbins.photo said:


> A couple of quick thoughts - ok, first I'd go with the 2 smaller SSD's, but I would not recommend the 500 gb.  I think you'll be far better served getting a large hard drive for storage, a 2 or possibly 3 tb - if you'd like you can even go external for now.  Wait for the next gen of SSD's, at least, before getting a big SSD drive.  The price per gig is prohibitive, and SSD's do have a limited life cycle, at least for now.  They are getting closer and closer to the sort of MTF you can get with a standard hard drive (mean time to failure), but they are not there yet.  So I really do think for now your better of with one much larger, much cheaper storage drive for photo's and whatever else you might need.


Well, I might not be around for the next generation.  I'm just being realistic. I am on borrowed time now. If my doctors knew what they were talking about, I'da been gone about 4 years ago. But still, I know my health and I can't afford to think "next generation." I am living in the moment and if at this moment a 500GB SSD costs 500 bucks (only 460.00 currently), then that's the cost of building it into a PC.

The Samsung 850 Pro _IS_ the next generation for me. It has a endurance rating of 150TB, which is nearly twice any other SDD. It would take me 20 years to break that drive. If by chance I was alive long enough to break the drive in less than 10 years, Samsung will replace it - that's the warranty length.



> Ok, piece of advice #2 - when it comes to memory don't skimp and always buy in sets.  You will always get your best results buying the same brand all at once rather than trying to mix and match.  When possible, fill your available slots with name brand chips that are all the same size (IE, all 2 GB, or all 4 GB, or all 8 GB, etc...), all the same speed, all from the same manufacturer and preferably all bought at the same time from the same vendor.  Don't mix and match.  Yes, the system will still run - but you'd be surprised at the difference it can make in speed and stability by following this general rule.


All excellent advice. As additional information to those looking to upgrade their RAM, you can mix speeds (check your mobo documentation and the list of RAM recommended for your board), but your machine will run at the slower of the rated speeds for your sticks (if you have 2 sticks of 1600 and 2 of 1333, your machine will run at only 1333 speed). By the way, there are reports that show RAM sticks with higher speeds and shorter latency don't really test all that differently. This is a place you can save big without sacrificing quality. And if you don't overclock (and sometimes even if you do), don't buy RAM with those fancy heat sinks. They don't really need them and sometimes a crappy heat sink will make the chips hotter, not cooler. If you have good air flow in your case, heat sinks will not make any difference except in the amount of $$$ you spend - and the bling factor, of course. Modders like teh bling. Case windows show off teh bling. My bling days are over though. 



> Power supply - again, don't skimp.  Think of it as a long term investment - don't buy a power supply for the PC your building right now, buy one for your next PC in mind instead.  I've seen more than one high powered PC build go awry because somebody started with a lower end power supply, worked fine at first but after they added say another video card to the system and maybe another component or two suddenly they started developing all sorts of strange problems that were difficult to trace.  Turns out it was usually the power supply itself just wasn't able to keep up with everything they added into the system.


Completely agree with this. A PSU is arguably one of the most important components in a computer. Best not to skimp on it.



> A few years back I bought a Lian Li case and 1000 watt power supply.  My friend who was also a fellow computer tech thought I was completely daffy for dropping that much on a case and power supply - but I've gone through 3 builds reusing the same case, same power supply - never had to replace either.  He on the other hand has gone through 4 power supply upgrades in that same time frame, and at the moment he's running an 800 watt unit.  In the end he spent more money than I did by buying the 4 different power supplies than I did buying the more expensive one up front.  Again, something to think of as a long term investment.


I have a LianLi case now, and a 750 watt PSU. But I want to sell or give away this machine after I build the new one (I'll prob'ly sell it - me so greedy). You're right though. Good equipment will last longer than some of the technology. You can transfer somethings to a new computer and spend far less.

Thanks,

Jim


----------



## 407370 (Aug 22, 2014)

If budget is not first priority dont forget to include blue neon CPU water cooling kit and see through sides on the case.


----------



## JimMcClain (Aug 23, 2014)

Hrmmmm... I don't _THINK_ so. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





But it's not like I haven't done something like that before.











Please, no C&C on these pics.


----------



## zaroba (Aug 24, 2014)

If there is one thing I've learned from scratch building all my computers for the past 10 years it's that bigger cases are far easier to use and that you can't wait to buy stuff.
Reading the topic, the main worry I have if your goal of using a micro ATX case.  Cooling may be a major issue if your using high end components and don't want to go with liquid cooling.

Any modern high end GPU wont fit in a micro-ATX so you will need a lower end card and If your doing anything that is very graphical (like the large image editing you mentioned) your computer will suffer, especially if your lagging with 16GB of ram now.  The newer high end video cards take 2 or 3 motherboard slots and can be over 10 inches long.  They barely fit in a mid-tower without moving the hard drive bracket somewhere else, and you want several hard drives.  The GPU will also be the main governor behind how large a PSU you need to get, and higher capacity PSUs are larger then lower capacity ones, especially if you want quality and you definitely need to go with a full modular PSU if you are going to use a small case.   If you want to go for 32GB of ram of ram in a micro-atx motherboard then you will need to find one with high capacity slots (2x 16gb, 4x 8gb).   Larger motherboards can easily hold 6 or more sticks of DDR 3 which isn't hard to push to 32gb or even higher.

All this means is heat, heat and more heat.  While CPUs need to be kept cool and are sensitive to high temps, it is normal for modern GPUs to run at 60C when *not* under load and can hit 100C when under heavy load, hence the reason they are so large, most of their size is due to the heat pipe system and fans.  This heat from the GPU will heat up the inside of your computer and result in the ambient temp inside the PC being high.  If the temp inside your case is high, then fans on the CPU, northbridge, and PSU wont be of much use.  A heatsync and fan wont keep a CPU under 50C if it's blowing 80C air on it, and at 80C your CPU will pretty much be shot.  A high ambient temp can also result in lag due to your ram over heating.  4 8gb sticks of ram will run hotter then 8 4gb sticks of ram.  Might be good to get a ram fan anyway.

A larger case is *far* easier to cool with fans then a smaller one.  I have server towers for both my gaming pc and my media pc.  120mm 3k rpm fans really move a lot of air if you don't mind your computer sounding like a small jet engine unless you have a sound insulated case.

Also, while SSDs are great, they are still relatively new when it comes to being used as hard drives.  So don't depend on them 100% as being failure proof like SD cards and other flash media.  I'm pretty sure very SSD on amazon that has reviews has some mentioning failure.

Something else to take in to consideration are the programs you are using.
Your current computer may have 16gb of ram, but are your applications using that much?
A 32bit program can't use more then 4gb of ram even if it is on a 64bit operating system.



As for the income limit, that kinda goes hand in hand with budget.
You can't plan out a computer now and wait a year to build it.  Computer hardware is advancing at an alarming rate and anything you plan to buy could easily be considered lower end a year from now.  It could be half the price though.  Due to this, you also need to buy everything within a month or two.  If you buy a motherboard now, then wait 6 months to buy the rest of the components, you'll find that there are newer and faster components on the market that may not be compatible with the motherboard you have.  Building a computer with components released 2-3 years ago can cost 1/5th the price of building one with the newest top of the line components, that's how fast it advances and how fast prices drop.  but it is also the easiest way to save a ton of money and still get a computer that can run modern applications with ease.  Because computer hardware is also far ahead of most computer software.


----------



## JimMcClain (Aug 24, 2014)

Everything is relative, zaroba.

I researched the case before I ordered it and it will easily fit every component I need. Since I will not be using HDDs, the space they take and the heat they generate will not be a concern. SSDs have been out long enough to be relied on for all storage systems in the modern PC and that's my plan.

This will not be a gamer machine and will not be under continuous and relentless gaming stresses. There is more than enough air flow and fan solutions to ease my mind about temperature control. The NVIDIA Quadro series of video cards are compact, cool and plenty powerful.

Most full-size cases and ATX motherboards just aren't necessary for the computer power user. Compact systems can and have been built with great power and performance and very few heat issues. It just takes good research, planning and execution.

Income limit is not the same as budget. Income limit means I can only count on a specific amount on my retirement check each month. But that's not my only source of income, it's just the only one I can count on every month. Budget is a predetermined amount of money you want to spend on something like a computer build. Even if you are poor, you can have a very high budget. It just will take much longer to get. I'm anxious, but I am not going to rush it. If it takes me a few months, that's fine. If it takes longer, so be it.

Jim


----------



## zaroba (Aug 25, 2014)

JimMcClain said:


> It just will take much longer to get. I'm anxious, but I am not going to rush it. If it takes me a few months, that's fine. If it takes longer, so be it.



This is exactly what I was taking about when I said income and budget go hand in hand.
Lets say you know you will save $200 a month for a new PC build (just an example, it's none of my business what your income is)
If the build costs $1200 then it will take you up to 6 months to save up the money for it.

Scenario A:  You plan everything out, then save up for 6 months to buy the components and build the PC.
By the time 6 months is up, many of the components you were planning to buy will be cheaper and newer, better components will be within that $1200 price range.  You can now afford a faster CPU since the 3GHz version now costs the same as the 2.6GHz version did 6 months ago.  There is a 1TB SSD for sale for the same price that 500GB SSDs were 6 months ago.  A better motherboard is for sale for the same price your original motherboard was 6 months ago.  Basically need to re-plan what you want.

Scenario B: You buy piece by piece when money is available (worst method IMO)
You buy a montherboard now, 2 months later you buy the GPU, after another 2 months the CPU, then 6 finally months after getting the motherboard you finally buy the RAM, HDs and PSU to finish the PC.
Only problem with this is that once you start getting components, your pretty much limited as to what you can replace when faster stuff gets cheaper.  You bought a motherboard first, but now there is a better CPU on the market and it isn't compatible with your motherboard so your stuck with the original CPU you planned to get.  Or a newer version of the motherboard gets released that has options that you like far more.

Just some basic examples from personal experiences.


I know you said the computer wont be used for gaming, but you did say graphics rendering, right?
Most stresses from games are due to rendering the graphics, hence the need for big beefy GPUs.
If your lagging while rendering with 16gb of ram then either your current GPU just isn't up to the task or your trying to make your computer do more graphics processing then the newest games on the market would, and they can run flawlessly on a high end video card (ie, something with a few GB of built in ram) and only 8gb of computer ram for the rest of the games processes.  If it's the later, then your computer is being put under more stress then a high end gaming computer.


----------



## lambertpix (Aug 25, 2014)

Looks like some good advice here, so far.  I did a build a little over a year ago and wrote up what I put in it as well as some of my thoughts about why I chose all the components.

A PC for photo editing
PC Build, addendum

During the pricing / planning stages, I found Pick Parts, Build Your PC, Compare and Share - PCPartPicker to be pretty helpful -- it's a great way to stack up prospective builds and solicit some commentary, as well as research pricing.


----------



## JimMcClain (Aug 25, 2014)

The case I ordered last Tuesday arrived today. Although it is a mATX case, it is larger than the average mATX case and has had some very good reviews, winning numerous awards. If you want to read more about the case, go here: Obsidian Series® 350D Micro ATX PC Case For now, it sits on my "workbench" waiting for parts. Some of those should be arriving later this week.






Jim


----------



## lambertpix (Aug 25, 2014)

Not a bad looking case.  I wanted more room for HDD's, and bonus points for not cramming them in so tight they couldn't breathe, so to speak.  The R4 can mount an SDD behind the MB tray, which in hindsight I'm not sure I'm super-crazy about, but it's got a ton of room for drives.  I've got three in there now, and I'll add another soon (giving me one SDD and two pairs of mirrored data drives).  Seems like I run out of space every time I turn around.... I wonder why?    ;-)


----------



## JimMcClain (Aug 26, 2014)

With just the included drive bays, this case can hold 6 SSDs or 4 SSDs and a HDD or 2 SSDs and 2 HDDs. Most mATX motherboards I've been looking at have 6 SATA IIIs. My plan is for 3 SSDs to start (2x 128GB, 1x 500GB) and room to add another SSD of undetermined size later. The swappable external drives are each 500GB HHDs, but I'll upgrade to SDDs later - the current HDDS are about 7 years old now).

Jim


----------



## lambertpix (Aug 26, 2014)

JimMcClain said:


> With just the included drive bays, this case can hold 6 SSDs or 4 SSDs and a HDD or 2 SSDs and 2 HDDs. Most mATX motherboards I've been looking at have 6 SATA IIIs. My plan is for 3 SSDs to start (2x 128GB, 1x 500GB) and room to add another SSD of undetermined size later. The swappable external drives are each 500GB HHDs, but I'll upgrade to SDDs later - the current HDDS are about 7 years old now).
> 
> Jim



Yeah, I couldn't handle just SSD's.  I'm starting to think those new 6TB drives coming out now are looking pretty good, in fact.  ;-)


----------



## JimMcClain (Aug 28, 2014)

Two 128GB Samsung 850 Pro solid state drives arrived today - sitting at my stoop when I returned from a trip to Reno, NV. The SSD cage is accessed from the right side panel. One will be for the OS and programs, the other will hold the Windows page file, Photoshop scratch file and all the system's temporary files.











It's a start. 

Jim


----------



## JimMcClain (Aug 29, 2014)

Since I don't want to have parts laying all over the place, I figured I should get the motherboard next, so I can attach the components to it as they are acquired. This board hasn't got a lot of reviews yet because it's so new on the market, but ASUS, the manufacturer, has been making quality motherboards for many years. This is the Gryphon Z97. You can read the specs here: Motherboards - GRYPHON Z97 - ASUS I didn't get the "armor plating" model, which I thought was a bit superfluous. But this board was built to military specifications and isn't dressed up with a lot of bling for those gamers and modders who like to show the inner workings of their systems with see-through acrylic panels. This is the heaviest motherboard I have ever handled.

I know that zaroba was concerned I would end up with a system that was already outdated by the time I completed the build. I want to assure you that this mobo is among the latest and greatest available. Likewise for the SSDs from Samsung. Just released this year. And I have shopped for the best price and promise not to feel ripped off if the prices are lower by the time I finish this build. 












Jim


----------



## lambertpix (Aug 29, 2014)

It's almost starting to look like a PC now.  ;-)

I've always found it easiest to at least mount the CPU & HS before installing the MB - just in case the HS is one of those that requires a lot of pressure to seat / attach correctly, but I guess it wouldn't take too long to take out the MB if you need to at this stage.  Does the tray allow access to the back of the MB (behind the CPU)?


----------



## JimMcClain (Aug 29, 2014)

I'm not actually mounting anything permanently yet. The motherboard is held in place by only a couple screws. I usually like to mount the CPU, CPU fan and the RAM sticks before mounting the motherboard in the case. However, this case has an open back that exposes the whole back of the mobo's CPU area. This will make it easy to mount the CPU fan after mounting the motherboard in the case because the screw holes will be more accessible. There is a lot more room to work in the case than there is in my current Lian Li case.

More parts on the way.

Jim


----------



## JimMcClain (Sep 6, 2014)

The past couple of days, more parts have arrived. First up is the power supply. I am a big believer, where PSUs are concerned, that more is better. This is a Corsair HX750i High Performance Power Supply I ordered from Amazon. It's modular, so I only have to plug the cables I need into the unit - and there is a large bag of all kinds of cables to choose from.






I am most excited to see the CPU come in. It's an Intel i7 4790K that runs at 4.0MHz, but my motherboard may automatically overclock it a little, based on my components and setup. I am not doing any manual overclocking, but if the system automatically selects the optimum configuration, I'd be very happy.






Next is the optical drive, a Asus 24x DVD-RW Serial-ATA drive that has proven to be the most consistent and popular DVD drive available. If I was still a modder, I'd be attaching the drive bay blank, which is brushed aluminuminuminum so that, when you tap it, the drive's drawer opens or closes. Ah well, those days are gone.  I guess I can live with the ugly front of the DVD.






As I was doing show & tell of this project with some friends, I noticed that the SSDs were uncomfortably loose in the case's SSD drive cage. They kinda flop around some. I realize the computer is not going on off-road trips in the back of a truck, but still, I want the components to be securely attached to the case. I need a drive bay converter for the 500GB SSD, which I haven't ordered yet, so I thought I'd get another for the 2-128s. I ordered a 3.5-inch HDD to 2.5-inch SSD Drive Bay Converter from Amazon and mounted both of my 128GB SSDs in it and slid it into one of the 2 HDD slots. It's a good solid fit. This means the system is not toolless anymore, but that doesn't bother me. I'm pretty handy with tools anyway. 






I removed the SSD cage, so now there is more air circulation room to keep the system cool.  There are still a few more expensive components to get, but I'm pleased with the progress so far. I'm thinking I should sell my GoPro Hero 3+, which I have hardly used in the 6 months I've owned it. Anyone interested?

Thanks for following the build.

Jim


----------



## Michel88 (Sep 8, 2014)

3 SSD's seems to overdo it I'd personally say.. By all means go for it if you want, but wouldn't a regular 500HDD be a lot cheaper? SSD's don't come cheap, especially not those 500gb variants. 

As for OS, Windows 9 will come out this year, perhaps end of the month or October, so you might as well wait for that. Knowing Microsoft and their tendency to deliver a good OS after a crappy OS, Windows 9 should be good


----------



## JimMcClain (Sep 17, 2014)

Michel88 said:


> 3 SSD's seems to overdo it I'd personally say.. By all means go for it if you want, but wouldn't a regular 500HDD be a lot cheaper?


From the beginning, I have said this is not about building the cheaper system, it is about the power system - and secure and technologically advanced. But yes, a lot of things could be cheaper, but I don't want to sacrifice the performance. SSD drives will soon be the only drives used in new computer systems - HDDs will be the optional choice.



> As for OS, Windows 9 will come out this year, perhaps end of the month or October, so you might as well wait for that.


I don't know where you are getting that information, but I think it's inaccurate. Win9 will likely be announced and official information and videos about its features shared during the Windows Event scheduled for Sep. 30. The release date is still unknown, but may not be until April 2015, at the earliest, or maybe not until September - a year from now. And I've never installed an operating system fresh on the shelves. I waited a year for Win7. It prob'ly won't be all that difficult to upgrade the system to Win9 from 8.1, so I'm not too concerned.

***

More parts have arrived. Last week, the 500GB SSD showed up and yesterday, the additional drive bay converter came, so I have all 3 SSD drives mounted in the HDD cage at the bottom-front of the enclosure. Along with the drive bay converter, I received the humongous CPU cooler and 4 sticks of RAM, for a total of 32GB.
















That CPU cooler was a gamble. I wasn't sure it would fit under the hood. It was the quietest and best cooling in all the tests I read about, but also the largest. It has a little brother that came in second in most of the tests except noise, which is an important consideration for me. This cooler fits, with only a sixteenth of an inch to spare.

There's only a couple hardware items left to get. I could begin the setup and software installations now because the main board has video built-in, but I ordered the video card today, so I'll wait.

I can't help but be excited, being so close to completing this new system. 

Jim


----------



## lambertpix (Sep 18, 2014)

Looking good.  I think in hindsight, I might have been further off with something like that Noctura (?) vs. the AIO water cooling setup I got.  I can't say I've really seen the expected acoustic benefits of this setup so far.


----------



## JimMcClain (Sep 18, 2014)

I can't remember the website I saw it on, but one of the reviews of the Noctua cooler said they compared it to a water cooling set up (also don't remember what unit that was) and temps were nearly the same, but noise levels were higher for the water cooling product.

H2O coolers have improved considerably from my modding days, but I never felt comfortable running any kind of liquid through a computer case. Too scarey for me.


----------



## JimMcClain (Sep 25, 2014)

A couple of days ago the video card arrived. I have the PNY NVIDIA Quadro K2200, from B&H.






I havent taken any pics of the finished system because Ive been busy putting it all together. The hardware assembly is the easy part, its the installation of OS and software and all the various configurations that take so much time.

If you plan to build a new machine and would like all your individual configurations, profiles and other options to move over to the new machine, you should do a backup of your %AppData%\Local and %AppData%\Roaming folders. I saved mine and, after installing each program, I then pasted the appropriate subfolders from those 2 locations into the new locations, overwriting any files and merging any folders that the new installation set up.

I had some difficulty with IE because Microsoft has disabled downloading executable files, even for their own programs (MS Office Home & Business 2013). Once I figured that out, I downloaded Firefox browser, renamed the file so I could execute the installation (from ***_exe to ***.exe). After it was installed, I was able to get Office and all my other applications without any trouble.

But having never used Windows 8.1, it has been a trying experience. Too excited though to let it all sit until I finished a couple of web projects for clients and spend time with a very good friend I haven't seen in years, I stayed up all night 2 nights in a row, only taking cat-naps 3 or 4 times. Not good for my health, being tethered to an oxygen hose and having to take meds on a fairly strict schedule. There was a lot of frustrating moments, but also a lot of enjoyment and satisfaction.

Around 5pm, I was just about ready to take another nap when I heard the distinctive slap of cardboard box (a heavy one) slapping the concrete near my front door. Then the familiar punch of my doorbell. The UPS driver gets his thank-you just as he's boarding his van and I see that the new monitor I ordered has arrived 2 days early (B&H is like that). I got this because I am getting more and more involved in my photography - it's why I am building this machine - so I did the research and took the advice of more accomplished people. I am staring at a ASUS PA249Q 24" LED Backlit IPS Widescreen Monitor. What a huge difference in the LG E2241 I have been using for several years now.

As I said a little over a month ago, my finances are limited, not my budget (some of you didn't seem to understand the difference). I actually thought this would take a few more months, but I got lucky, made some good sales on ebay and other venues (thank you Manny), was asked to help out on a couple web projects and managed to get everything I wanted in a pretty short period of time. The system specs are in this thread, if you care to read back. I spent about $3400.00 (incl. the Bose Companion 20 speakers that haven't arrived yet). That is about a thousand more than I spent on my first computer in 1991. Wow, that's a lot of dough when you add it all up. But it's all quality gear. I never once compromised the quality to get cheap or save a buck. And even if my photography never earns me a single dollar, this is worth every bill to me.

It is so amazing to see my computer start up and be ready to work in less than a minute. Blows my mind. My old machine took at least 5 minutes and it was a slug during so many tasks.

Now that I have the power to support it, I think I see full-frame in my future. 

I have to be gone all day tomorrow, but I'll post a picture or 2 of the completed system as soon as I can. Right now, the new machine is sitting on top of the old to make it easier for me to switch back and forth while I was juggling tasks. And you can't believe the huge pile of cardboard and packing bubbles that come with this stuff.

Jim


----------

