# I'm thinking about going as a professional photographer



## tecboy

Ever since, I have been taking photography classes and reading TPF, my skill has improve a lot.  My concern is the costs.  Is it the good investment to get the fast lens and L lens.  I happy with my kit lens and 70-300mm lens.  A lot of my photos look vey good in post process.  I notice the difference in the high professional lenses are much more sharper and clearer than mine.  I'm thinking about getting a job as a photographer and hopefully I'll earn enough money to get high end gears.  Any thought?


----------



## sscarmack

If you have to ask people on the internet, your not ready.

Also, if you don't have one "fast" lens, no your not ready.

Do you have a back up camera?

Can you camera handle any lighting situation thrown at you?

What if you mess up a shoot?


Just messing

I think your ready


----------



## TheNevadanStig

If you get in a pinch and don't have the right lens for a certain job, there is always the rental option 

I would say if you are thinking of doing this, start making contacts ASAP. In a lot of situations, it's not about what you know, but rather who you know. You can produce much better photos that X amount of other photographers in the area, but unless you know who is hiring the photographer, it doesn't really matter.


----------



## MOREGONE

I am on the same path and have decided to slow down and take a longer road.

Do you absolutely know what kind of photography you want to do professionally? Not saying you can't get a mixed bag of work to do but most professionals stick to and market themselves towards a specific type of photography; product, wedding, portraits etc. If you're not specialized in something you will not get sufficient pay in my opinion. 

Have you assisted anyone? I would highly recommend this. I have done a little assisting and it has been great. Hope to have another day job coming up here int he next couple weeks. I have been paid well for my assisting, more than I made from shooting a lot of the time and I was learning. It was way cool to be on the set for a cover shoot for a magazine with an Olympic gold medal swimmer ;-)

Have you tried to teach anyone photography? This is a great way to expand your own knowledge and identify what you don't know.


I'm one who likes to be prepared and what I have realized is getting out there too soon, can hurt me. I am going to build contacts, knowledge and portfolio before branding myself too much.


----------



## KmH

There are not many places you can get a job as a photographer anymore.

You're more likely going to have to be self-employed doing freelance editorial and or commercial work or starting a retail photography business.

Going Pro: How to Make the Leap from Aspiring to Professional Photographer
Photography Business Secrets: The Savvy Photographer's Guide to Sales, Marketing, and More
How to Start a Home-Based Photography Business, 6th (Home-Based Business Series)
Profitable Photography in Digital Age: Strategies for Success
Best Business Practices for Photographers, Second Edition

ASMP Business Resources
Starting a Business | SBA.gov

http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/03/lighting-101.html
http://neilvn.com/tangents/flash-photography-techniques/


----------



## Derrel

tecboy said:


> Ever since, I have been taking photography classes and reading TPF, my skill has improve a lot.  My concern is the costs.  Is it the good investment to get the fast lens and L lens.  I happy with my kit lens and 70-300mm lens.  A lot of my photos look vey good in post process.  I notice the difference in the high professional lenses are much more sharper and clearer than mine.  I'm thinking about getting a job as a photographer and hopefully I'll earn enough money to get high end gears.  Any thought?



You do not need high-end gear; you need business plans, marketing, and sales skills. The camera/lens/lighting equipment does not need to be Canon's L-series. You do not "need" a 50mm f/1.2-L (L stands for Ludicrous Size and Weight, on that specific lens) when Canon's standard 50mm f/1.4 EF is a fine, fine lens. Same with their 85mm f/1.8 EF; a fine, fine lens, smaller, lighter, and less conspicuous than their 85mm f/1.2-L series model.

Don't focus too much on what equipment you lack, but focus more on skill and knowledge, and business, marketing, and sales.


----------



## Light Guru

Derrel said:


> You do not need high-end gear; you need business plans, marketing, and sales skills. The camera/lens/lighting equipment does not need to be Canon's L-series. You do not "need" a 50mm f/1.2-L (L stands for Ludicrous Size and Weight, on that specific lens) when Canon's standard 50mm f/1.4 EF is a fine, fine lens. Same with their 85mm f/1.8 EF; a fine, fine lens, smaller, lighter, and less conspicuous than their 85mm f/1.2-L series model.
> 
> Don't focus too much on what equipment you lack, but focus more on skill and knowledge, and business, marketing, and sales.



Yup, you can always rent gear as needed.


----------



## robbins.photo

KmH said:


> There are not many places you can get a job as a photographer anymore.



Coroners office.  Seriously.. no need for fast lenses.  Zero post processing required.  No Diva like behavior.. yup, starting to sound better and better.. lol


----------



## gsgary

I looked at your Fickr site, come back in 10 years and ask again


----------



## runnah

Derrel said:


> You do not need high-end gear; you need business plans, marketing, and sales skills..



Exactly, McDonalds is not where it is because of the quality of it's food, it is because they had a great business plans and amazing marketing. Their food is terrible but they still do a bazillion dollars a year.


----------



## runnah

gsgary said:


> I looked at your Fickr site, come back in 10 years and ask again



Harsh but not entirely inaccurate. 

I think you'd be premature to try to at this point in your development. It is a huge financial and personal investment to turn a hobby into a profession.


----------



## CdTSnap

runnah said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> 
> I looked at your Fickr site, come back in 10 years and ask again
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Harsh but not entirely inaccurate.
> 
> I think you'd be premature to try to at this point in your development. It is a huge financial and personal investment to turn a hobby into a profession.
Click to expand...


I agree, not bad photos but I wouldnt say your there yet (based off your flickr) Id say the same about myself. Id love to go pro but I dont think im ready to go fully into it, and ive done a few weddings already.


----------



## gsgary

runnah said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> 
> I looked at your Fickr site, come back in 10 years and ask again
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Harsh but not entirely inaccurate.
> 
> I think you'd be premature to try to at this point in your development. It is a huge financial and personal investment to turn a hobby into a profession.
Click to expand...


No point in ***** footing around and sugar coating it


----------



## vintagesnaps

There don't seem to be a lot of existing jobs available for photographers, and building up your reputation as a photographer and getting opportunities could take time. I would think it would be better to upgrade if/when you're getting plenty of work as a photographer. 

You seem to have ability and are working at learning and practicing, but I'd expect it to take some time to be consistent in getting good photos. For example you got some nice photos of many of the booths at the event on your page, but I can see where many of them could be better with improvement in framing shots, noticing backgrounds, being aware of your vantage point, and noticing distractions (objects sticking into the sides/corners of photos). With some I think just a slight crop could clean up the composition. 

And this is getting rather OT but I did photos for a local team for marketing purposes - I'd get photos with signage of sponsors' names, not cut off, with people in the photo but not blocking the sign, etc. which I found took some waiting and watching as people move in and out of the scene and thinking about my vantage point. I usually would try to not crop thru the middle of lettering and think about that as part of the photos. 

For example the one of the CPR training, if you'd framed it a little lower and more to the left that might have eliminated the edges of buildings and tree trunks etc. in the background that you don't need along the top, and could have kept the instructor's foot from being cropped off the bottom - and might have gotten the entire sign to the left and eliminated people in the shade to the right that are rather dark and not involved. Ones like the large sign w/the heart showing the sidewalk winding toward the tents is a nice one, no distractions, the sign looks nice, etc.


----------



## bribrius

tell you this. My volunteer shooting kids summer camp changed the other day when i took a check. I still have one more day there shooting. I sure should be giving back something for the amount of money I've taken now. And my stress level HAS PEAKED. 

Entire , ENTIRE different thing shooting something you want to and hoping someone buys it than shooting something where you HAVE to give some results and you aren't picking what you are shooting. ENTIRE DIFFERENT THING.
And that is on a friendly, not even a contract. Im trying to come up with over a couple grand in results basically. As that is about what im getting. Figure out a panorama, building shots. Just started off with a anniversary game shots. Now money involved. I'm flippn out.
And this isn't even what i would consider COMMERCIAL (started friendly volunteer) it is just meeting expectations and trying to go above them for the monetary amount. Once you take a check and you aren't picking what you are shooting trying to sell "art", IT ALL CHANGES. I'm over my friggn head right now and going on day THREE hoping i come with some stuff that is usable and accepted. Will i be shot or hated if i don't? No. But it is a ENTIRE different thing shooting for purpose than strolling around with a camera.

And no. If this is what it is like, i don't think i want to be a pro. TOTAL STRESS. 
My only aid is im thinking if they accept and like it, everything will go good as what it would cost to hire a REAL pro for this i couldn't even imagine. It just isn't even funny. I don't want to pay the two k back either. And my kid can go to camp there for free now. so there ya go.


----------



## bribrius

looked at a flkr site?
Really? i didn't even look. But seriously.
f#ck. flicker. Entire different thing unless you plan on selling photos online and want art.

edit: sorry. i am in a bit of a mood. Don't mind me....


----------



## imagemaker46

I also looked at the flicker site and there are some nice images, however the majority can be had in the thousands online, with more being uploaded every few minutes. Being able to set yourself apart from the rest of the "I want to be a professional photographer" types takes more than this kind of photography.  You don't need to own the best gear, but you need the skills to bluff your way through every assignment that you may get.  Owning the best gear doesn't guarantee work either, it just guarantees that you will be deeper in debt and trying to pay for the gear while wondering if you made a mistake. This is where the stress of the job comes in, and the professional fun goes out the window.

It's not easy now, and it won't get easier. Enjoy the hobby, practice and when you think you are ready, think again and practice more.


----------



## tecboy

I didn't say I want to be a professional photographer, and I don't have 30+ years experience like you guys do.  Ever since I volunteer several nonprofit organizations, I have to do what they want, and they like my images.  Some called me a professional photographer which I'm not.  There was one careered photographer actually like my work.  I see many photographers with high-end telephoto lenses, and the way they shoot are all tightened cropped images.  What you see in flickr are all snapshots and more like photojournalism.  I don't shoot like you guys do who have the resources and money to travel far away places to make outstanding photos.  I hang around a community of photographers have far superior gear than I have, and they make good quality images even though they have 1-5 years experience.  Beside, I have hundred of thousands of crappy photos.  I didn't post these in flickr.


----------



## Trever1t

I'm thinking of giving up pro photography and just enjoy being an enthusiast


----------



## Steve5D

runnah said:


> Exactly, McDonalds is not where it is because of the quality of it's food...



Wow.

I seriously never considered that perspective, but it's absolutely spot-on...


----------



## bribrius

Trever1t said:


> I'm thinking of giving up pro photography and just enjoy being an enthusiast


Actually what you do i didn't think would be too bad. Doing a wedding would scare the bjeezus out of me.  If you screw it up it isn't like you can just ask them to do another wedding for you so you can take photos again.
i think i might go back to just taking family photos...


----------



## Scatterbrained

tecboy said:


> I didn't say I want to be a professional photographer, ...................




  Maybe I didn't read the thread title correctly?


			
				tecboy said:
			
		

> I'm thinking about going as a professional photographer




...or the opening post?. . . . . 


			
				tecboy said:
			
		

> I'm thinking about getting a job as a photographer








			
				tecboy said:
			
		

> I don't shoot like you guys do who have the resources and money to travel far away places to make outstanding photos.


No need to travel to take outstanding photos.  You just need to have a good eye and a strong vision. 





			
				tecboy said:
			
		

> What you see in flickr are all snapshots and more like photojournalism


Snapshots and photojournalism are not the same thing.  Not even close (although it could be argued that since news outlets are running cell phone snapshots. . . . . . . . )
Looking at your Flickr I'd say you've got a ways to go.   Slow down and take it easy.  Enjoy what you're doing.  Two years from now you'll look back at what you're doing now and cringe (I look back on my work a week later and cringe:blushing:)  There are some fundamental things that I don't see any evidence of on your stream, like working with flash, and I don't mean the pop up kind.  




			
				tecboy said:
			
		

> I hang around a community of photographers have far superior gear than I  have, and they make good quality images even though they have 1-5 years  experience.


It's not the gear that makes the images, it's the photographer.  The gear helps, but only if you know what gear is most appropriate for what you are trying to achieve.   Lot's of people start in this hobby and get hit hard with the dreaded G.A.S. (you should see my camera closet, yes, closet) They don't have a definitive vision, no style, and little in the way of technical know how.  They are still just _taking pictures_ of things, rather than _making images_.  At that stage it's really easy to get caught up in gear acquisition, as you keep thinking your shots would be better if you could just get your hands on a faster lens, or a FF camera, or a grip, etc, etc.   This is usually when people are still in that "taking pictures of everything" stage.  Just check your local Craigslist and I'm sure you'll see tons of them advertising.  They ones who do sports, portraits, weddings, seniors, babies, pets, and everything else they can think of to list in an ad.    Don't fall into that trap.    If you enjoy sharing your images with the NPOs and they enjoy receiving them, I'd say leave it at that for a while.  Enjoy it, and take your time to build up your skill set, find your niche, and develop your style/vision.


----------



## Steve5D

tecboy said:


> I don't shoot like you guys do who have the resources and money to travel far away places to make outstanding photos.



Wait... who?


----------



## bribrius

tecboy said:


> I didn't say I want to be a professional photographer, and I don't have 30+ years experience like you guys do. Ever since I volunteer several nonprofit organizations, I have to do what they want, and they like my images. Some called me a professional photographer which I'm not. There was one careered photographer actually like my work. I see many photographers with high-end telephoto lenses, and the way they shoot are all tightened cropped images. What you see in flickr are all snapshots and more like photojournalism. I don't shoot like you guys do who have the resources and money to travel far away places to make outstanding photos. I hang around a community of photographers have far superior gear than I have, and they make good quality images even though they have 1-5 years experience.* Beside, I have hundred of thousands of crappy photos. I didn't post these in flickr*.


why not? :???:


----------



## Steve5D

Derrel said:


> Same with their *85mm f/1.8 EF*; a fine, fine lens, smaller, lighter, and less conspicuous than their 85mm f/1.2-L series model.



Probably the sharpest lens in my bag...


----------



## runnah

Steve5D said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Same with their *85mm f/1.8 EF*; a fine, fine lens, smaller, lighter, and less conspicuous than their 85mm f/1.2-L series model.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Probably the sharpest lens in my bag...
Click to expand...


Same here. Best lens for the price on the market.


----------



## Steve5D

tecboy said:


> Beside, I have hundred of thousands of crappy photos.  I didn't post these in flickr.



Well, you posted some of them.

Look, I don't wanna' be rude, but I will be blunt. Looking at your Flickr page, there's just nothing there which really blows my hair back.You've got some good racing photos, and then you've got some very bad racing photos. The fashion show photos on the first page are horribly lit. That's not your fault, but it _is _your fault that the world can see them.

Stop making excuses about how you don't have "the resources and money to travel to far away places" to shoot. That's utter nonsense. Some of the best photos I've ever taken were shot in my backyard. 

If you want to "make outstanding photos", you need to learn that money doesn't make the photograph. Since you seem to think it does, I would say, no, you probably shouldn't hang your shingle out and "turn pro" just yet. Nothing I've seen or read gives even the slightest suggestion that you're prepared to do that...


----------



## tecboy

Steve5D said:


> tecboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Beside, I have hundred of thousands of crappy photos.  I didn't post these in flickr.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you posted some of them.
> 
> Look, I don't wanna' be rude, but I will be blunt. Looking at your Flickr page, there's just nothing there which really blows my hair back.You've got some good racing photos, and then you've got some very bad racing photos. The fashion show photos on the first page are horribly lit. That's not your fault, but it _is _your fault that the world can see them.
> 
> Stop making excuses about how you don't have "the resources and money to travel to far away places" to shoot. That's utter nonsense. Some of the best photos I've ever taken were shot in my backyard.
> 
> If you want to "make outstanding photos", you need to learn that money doesn't make the photograph. Since you seem to think it does, I would say, no, you probably shouldn't hang your shingle out and "turn pro" just yet. Nothing I've seen or read gives even the slightest suggestion that you're prepared to do that...
Click to expand...


The racing photos, they have a bad race track.  Is that my fault? There is nothing wrong posting the fashion show in flickr even though they have bad lighting.  It is not like I'll get a job as a fashion photographer.


----------



## runnah

tecboy said:


> There is nothing wrong posting the fashion show in flickr even though they have bad lighting.  It is not like I'll get a job as a fashion photographer.



But you might not get a job because of them. Professional portfolios need to be rock solid.


----------



## Steve5D

tecboy said:


> Steve5D said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tecboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Beside, I have hundred of thousands of crappy photos.  I didn't post these in flickr.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you posted some of them.
> 
> Look, I don't wanna' be rude, but I will be blunt. Looking at your Flickr page, there's just nothing there which really blows my hair back.You've got some good racing photos, and then you've got some very bad racing photos. The fashion show photos on the first page are horribly lit. That's not your fault, but it _is _your fault that the world can see them.
> 
> Stop making excuses about how you don't have "the resources and money to travel to far away places" to shoot. That's utter nonsense. Some of the best photos I've ever taken were shot in my backyard.
> 
> If you want to "make outstanding photos", you need to learn that money doesn't make the photograph. Since you seem to think it does, I would say, no, you probably shouldn't hang your shingle out and "turn pro" just yet. Nothing I've seen or read gives even the slightest suggestion that you're prepared to do that...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The racing photos, they have a bad race track.  Is that my fault? There is nothing wrong posting the fashion show in flickr even though they have bad lighting.  It is not like I'll get a job as a fashion photographer.
Click to expand...


Stop being so defensive. Being defensive will keep you from being open to suggestions and criticisms which can actually help you.

With regards to the racing photos, as I said, some were very good. But you seem to want to place the blame for the bad ones on a "bad race track". Race tracks are only bad for drivers. For photographers, they're just pavement. But, since you want to insist that it was a "bad race track", can you explain how it was bad in only _some _of the photos?

You say there's nothing wrong with posting the fashion show photos, yet you're asking for input as to whether or not you're ready to make the move to be a "professional". Those are bad photos. They're not bad because of anything you may have done, but that doesn't mean you should put them out there for the world to look at to help the world opine whether or not you're ready to "go pro". 

You're right on one count, though: Based on those photos, you will never get a job as a fashion photographer.

If you learn nothing else today, learn this: Being a professional photographer means far more than just getting paid. It means conducting yourself in a professional manner. It means being able to produce professional results. It means having professional images to show prospective clients. It means you don't make excuses. It means you man up and get to work to correct issues that have arisen. 

I just don't see where you're prepared to do any of that...


----------



## tecboy

runnah said:


> tecboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is nothing wrong posting the fashion show in flickr even though they have bad lighting.  It is not like I'll get a job as a fashion photographer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But you might not get a job because of them. Professional portfolios need to be rock solid.
Click to expand...


My Flickr is not a professional portfolio.  I said I'm thinking about going professional.  I ask for thoughts.  I don't use my flickr to get a job.  My backyard is not good looking to be photographed.  Where I live, dslr prohibits in many places.  

Steve5D, say whatever you want, I'm done arguing with you.


----------



## Steve5D

tecboy said:


> I didn't say I want to be a professional photographer...



Really?

Your thread title betrays you...


----------



## Steve5D

tecboy said:


> My Flickr is not a professional portfolio.



That's evident...



> I said I'm thinking about going professional.



Fair enough.

What makes you think that you might be ready to entertain such a move?



> I ask for thoughts.



And when you got some, you got defensive...



> I don't use my flickr to get a job.



Okay, what _do _you use? Do you have a website, or other page, that showcases the images which you think are indicative of professional results?



> My backyard is not good looking to be photographed.



You missed my point entirely.

My point is that you don't have to travel to far away places, with fancy equipment, to get the results you want. A true professional would work with the environment he's presented. 

What track is that in your photos? Is that Laguna Seca? 



> Where I live, dslr prohibits in many places.



Where do you live, Pyongyang? Tehran?



> Steve5D, say whatever you want, I'm done arguing with you.



See, I'm not arguing. I'm just giving you some hard facts which you're afraid to digest.

I do this for a living. I'm almost 52 years old. It took me a long time to get to the point where I was able to honestly say to myself "Yeah, I'm ready". 

It was even harder, though, for me to say "Steve, you're just not ready" in the preceding years. No one likes to admit that they're not ready. It took a very dear friend of mine, and one of the best photographers I've ever met, to snatch me up by the short curlies and say "Dude, wake the **** up. You're not ready".

So, if you want to just wing it on your own, and dismiss the "thoughts" that you solicited because you don't agree with what's being said, have at it, Chief. You'll likely never be much competition for anyone.

But if you want to stand a snowball's chance in Hell of doing this for a living, you need to be far more receptive to comments and criticisms...


----------



## runnah

tecboy said:


> Steve5D, say whatever you want, I'm done arguing with you.



Steve likes to argue but in this case he isn't arguing but rather giving you exactly what you wanted in terms of a reality check.

It may indeed be a very hard pill to swallow but you should listen more, make less excuses and be honest with yourself.


----------



## bribrius

capitalism has a way of sorting this kind of thing out....
you end up starving, you weren't ready.
Seems a lot do it has secondary incomes. Which might mean even though they been doing it years. They still aren't ready.
What is the standard everyone is using for "pro"? Living off the income or having a nice flikr? These aren't the same thing are they?
Lot of people with a lot of gear and really nice flikrs that wouldn't have a snowballs chance in hell of supporting themselves.
Local photographer here has a website worse than that flikr. They seem to be eating. dunno.
just sayn.
never can tell...
hang your shingle and see if you eat. There ya go. Most cut and dry, simplest way to find out. The market determines it, everything else is conjecture..


----------



## gsgary

tecboy said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tecboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is nothing wrong posting the fashion show in flickr even though they have bad lighting.  It is not like I'll get a job as a fashion photographer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But you might not get a job because of them. Professional portfolios need to be rock solid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My Flickr is not a professional portfolio.  I said I'm thinking about going professional.  I ask for thoughts.  I don't use my flickr to get a job.  My backyard is not good looking to be photographed.  Where I live, dslr prohibits in many places.
> 
> Steve5D, say whatever you want, I'm done arguing with you.
Click to expand...


Take a look at William Egglestone he loves bad looking place and makes them look good WILLIAM EGGLESTON
Same with Stephen Shore Stephen Shore


----------



## Steve5D

I think we've shown this to be a classic example of "Please tell me if you think I'm ready to be a pro, but please don't tell me I'm not or I'll get mad".

These come around every so often, and they're usually good for a laugh or two...


----------



## imagemaker46

tecboy said:


> Steve5D said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tecboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Beside, I have hundred of thousands of crappy photos. I didn't post these in flickr.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you posted some of them.
> 
> Look, I don't wanna' be rude, but I will be blunt. Looking at your Flickr page, there's just nothing there which really blows my hair back.You've got some good racing photos, and then you've got some very bad racing photos. The fashion show photos on the first page are horribly lit. That's not your fault, but it _is _your fault that the world can see them.
> 
> Stop making excuses about how you don't have "the resources and money to travel to far away places" to shoot. That's utter nonsense. Some of the best photos I've ever taken were shot in my backyard.
> 
> If you want to "make outstanding photos", you need to learn that money doesn't make the photograph. Since you seem to think it does, I would say, no, you probably shouldn't hang your shingle out and "turn pro" just yet. Nothing I've seen or read gives even the slightest suggestion that you're prepared to do that...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The racing photos, they have a bad race track. Is that my fault? There is nothing wrong posting the fashion show in flickr even though they have bad lighting. It is not like I'll get a job as a fashion photographer.
Click to expand...


So what if the race track isn't perfect, to succeed in photography you have to be able to adapt and overcome the situations you end up shooting in. I've shot in more bad situations in the past 40 years than many will ever shoot in, but I have never used it as an excuse.

 Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.


----------



## Civchic

I think what Steve5D is saying, and you're not "getting" is that it doesn't matter if you use your flickr to get a job or not.  It will be seen.  Say you're an architect starting up your own business.  You're going to specialize in wineries.  Your website, your portfolio, your presentation materials, had better all be fan-freaking-tastic examples of wineries.  And not just really nice, but unique and eye-catching.  And even then, if you have a bunch of other stuff with your name on it - really ugly Russian dormitories or something - you'd better not show off those designs.  They won't help you and probably will hurt you.


----------



## sonicbuffalo

I've known wedding and baby photographers that only knew what kind of camera they used.  They also made good money in photography.  That proves you don't have to be a wizard in order to shoot photography and make money.  Just sayin'.


----------



## photoguy99

I spent an hour or so talking with a local PJ recently, and he has only the vaguest idea what kind of camera the paper issued him. The make and model simply didn't matter to him, and wasn't interesting.  Canon 1 something?

This is an award winning guy who's been doing this for 20+ years.


----------



## JacaRanda

gsgary said:


> tecboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> runnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> But you might not get a job because of them. Professional portfolios need to be rock solid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My Flickr is not a professional portfolio. I said I'm thinking about going professional. I ask for thoughts. I don't use my flickr to get a job. My backyard is not good looking to be photographed. Where I live, dslr prohibits in many places.
> 
> Steve5D, say whatever you want, I'm done arguing with you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Take a look at William Egglestone he loves bad looking place and makes them look good WILLIAM EGGLESTON
> Same with Stephen Shore Stephen Shore
Click to expand...


Those Stephen Shore photos just took me right back in time.  Really nice references as to how old or young I am.  51 and I think I miss turkey, mashed potato&gravy t.v. dinners.


----------



## MOREGONE

tecboy said:


> My backyard is not good looking to be photographed.  Where I live, dslr prohibits in many places..




You lost me here. You have San Jose, CA listed as your location which is one amazing area to live as a photographer. Public transportation is abundant. You have the coast and the redwood forest nearby. You're in the tech mecca of silicon valley. Google's HQ is down the street. 

It is easy to find excuses when you are looking for them.

Check out this recent article that listed SF as one of the best cities for photography. 
10 Best Cities for Working Photographers in the US

Sounds like you've got your goal. Now make it your motivation. Make a list of things you need to do to get where you're going and start checking them off one by one. One step at a time.


----------



## Derrel

photoguy99 said:


> I spent an hour or so talking with a local PJ recently, and he has only the vaguest idea what kind of camera the paper issued him. The make and model simply didn't matter to him, and wasn't interesting.  Canon 1 something?
> 
> This is an award winning guy who's been doing this for 20+ years.



He must have *amazingly keen powers of observation*. I wonder if he knows what kind of car he drives, or which of the two restrooms he needs to use....the one with the stick figure with the skirt, or the one with the pants on the lower half. SO this guy, a 20+ veteran of photojournalism, he makes his living shooting photos with a camera, and yet has NO IDEA of the camera model he uses? I bet he KNOWS what kind of toiler paper he likes to use to wipe his a** with, and I bet he KNOWS what burger he prefers at any of five fast food restaurants.But he has no idea of what camera model he uses every day. Something seems amiss with this. Very un-believable.


----------



## photoguy99

Did I say 'has no idea'?  Let me check.

Nope. I said a different thing.

It would be so awesome if, just one time, someone would disagree with something I actually wrote.


----------



## Tamgerine

tecboy said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tecboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is nothing wrong posting the fashion show in flickr even though they have bad lighting.  It is not like I'll get a job as a fashion photographer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But you might not get a job because of them. Professional portfolios need to be rock solid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My Flickr is not a professional portfolio.  I said I'm thinking about going professional.  I ask for thoughts.  I don't use my flickr to get a job.  My backyard is not good looking to be photographed.  Where I live, dslr prohibits in many places.
> 
> Steve5D, say whatever you want, I'm done arguing with you.
Click to expand...


The days of a photographer handing over a printed portfolio to an editor and that being it are gone. Forever. Your resume is now your entire internet presence because what is the first thing a prospective client is going to do?

Google you. Everything is going to come up. Your Facebook, that Flickr, those drunk photos you uploaded, any tweets you've ever made, all of it. It's all out there for the world to see.

If there isn't something that you wouldn't take right now and slap it in front of a client and say, "This is what I do and who I am" then don't put it on the internet at all. 

If you're planning on being a professional you need a professional web presence. All of it. That's just a matter of fact these days.


----------



## Derrel

photoguy99 said:


> Did I say 'has no idea'?  Let me check.
> 
> Nope. I said a different thing.
> 
> It would be so awesome if, just one time, someone would disagree with something I actually wrote.



You wrote,* "He has only the vaguest idea what kind of camera the paper issued him."* That is what you wrote. A man who has "only the vaguest idea" is basically the same an a man who has no idea. Sorry that I found your hair-splitting BS to be confusing. My apologies. I suppose he's like the cop who carries some kind of "pistol-thingy? Glock maybe? 9mm? Maybde a 40 S&W? I dunno,", or the race car driver who car has, "Some kind of a motor thingy under the hood. V-6? V-8 maybe?"

I've NEVER, ever, not one,single time, in over 38 years, met a professional, semi-pro,or part-timer photographer who did not know,EXACTLY, as in *ex*-*act*-*ly*, what camera model it was that he or she shot. Not. One. Man. Or. Woman. But whatever it was that you meant, my apologies. A professional photojournalist, some award-winning one with 20+ years of experience who only has a vague notion of what camera he shoots every day. Again...huh. I'm not buying that.

As to the OP, considering a career as a professional photographer, he knows he shoots Canon, and wants to maybe buy some Canon L lenses, so he knows he's a Canon shooter at least. I would tell him to focus on finding a small niche that is not being exploited; maybe something in the pet photography area, specializing in something that could be easier to get into than the whole generalist 'pro' area. I thought he did okay with the dog pics, and people LOVE their pets, and might pay for pet pics. I dunno...there are just sooooo many professional photographers these days that it seems like the whole field is just soooo over-loaded with guys with cameras that making any cash out of photography as a one-man business depends more on marketing, and sales, and one-to-one selling and salesmanship and relationship building than on photo-skill, or camera equipment kit and so on.

I see plenty of pro shooters here in my area, and across the USA who are only mediocre shooters, but who market the daylights out of their work and network-network-network, and seem to be doing pretty well. Great businessmen, average shooters. I think that's the balance needed--more marketing, and more sales skills, and greater ability to convince people to give them the business, than being a great shooter with a Canon or a Nikon kit full of great gear.


----------



## manaheim

You can be a "pro" with a Canon Rebel and $200 in used glass.

However, so can EVERYONE ELSE.

You're up against competition from ridiculous amounts of people who had the same idea as you.

You're considering a career in what is considered one of the worst professions from a standpoint of likely success/financial gain. 

Really... don't. 

Oh and this thread has the word "professional" in the title, which means it'll go off the rails, spiral, will turn into a 12 page thread and get locked. Go ahead... prove me wrong.


----------



## Derrel

manaheim said:


> You can be a "pro" with a Canon Rebel and $200 in used glass.
> 
> However, so can EVERYONE ELSE.
> 
> You're up against competition from ridiculous amounts of people who had the same idea as you.
> 
> You're considering a career in what is considered one of the worst professions from a standpoint of likely success/financial gain.
> 
> Really... don't.
> 
> Oh and this thread has the word "professional" in the title, which means it'll go off the rails, spiral, will turn into a 12 page thread and get locked. Go ahead... prove me wrong.



There. Everything you need to know in ONE, single, succinct post. Seriously techboy, manaheim just said about all there is to say to the young, aspiring pro with an as-yet-developing FLickr web profile. If you want another, more at-length article about going pro, read Ken Rockwell's brutally honest suggestions about getting a regular job, and doing photography on the weekends and after work, and so on.How to Become a Professional Photographer

As he says, "_The only way to do this is to keep your real job and do photography on your own time." And "_*Jobs in Photography Pay Poorly*In 2010, the US Bureau of Labor Statistics documents that the median pay for photographers is $29,130 per year, or $14 per hour. "Median" pay means that half of photographers make _less_ than this. You'd make the same as abus driver, day laborer, security guard or a local delivery route driver &#8212; and _each_ of those jobs has _ten times_ as many jobs available as there are for photographers."

However, if you realllllllly wanna "go pro", well...​


----------



## vintagesnaps

I was going to suggest - before I saw the rest of the posts on here - that you might want to start going thru your photos and thinking about which are your best, which are good, which are not so much. I'd thin out what you have posted publicly because it's true that if you try for any photography opportunity, you'll get googled in a heartbeat. And who's going to look thru that many pictures? probably not someone considering using any of your photos, they'd more likely want to see a relatively small sampling of your work.

I saw some of your events photos that I thought looked good or could be good with some adjustment/cropping, and liked some of your nighttime campus scenes - but that fashion show had some weirdo lighting, I'd think about scrapping those (not your originals, not from where you save everything, but from what's displayed publicly). 

I think too it's necessary to work on evaluating your own work. I've been doing submissions to juried art exhibits in galleries and it's up to me to figure out what to submit - they don't critique my photos, either they accept my photos or they don't. The rest is up to me. It's great to get the emails that say one of my photos was accepted and to be able to see it on display or on the gallery's website; it's also up to me to figure out which didn't get accepted and why and how I can continue to improve. 

You seem to keep trying so you could keep taking classes and learning and practicing and see where it takes you. I just wouldn't expect to walk right into an existing job somewhere as a photographer, and it will probably take time to build up your photography skills (which may or may not realistically develop into more than a hobby someday).


----------



## AR76

From what I've read coming from the OP so far, I'm not sure what his intentions are.

If you'd like to know whether or not to persue the path of becoming a professional photographer, that's up to you alone. If that's the first thing you think about in the morning and the last thing at night - go for it. There's lots to learn and even more to practice. As many have stated, competition is harsh especially in the low to mid pro range while the pay is mediocre. If you really want to "make it", then get ready to compete with the best of the best. Consider going to university to study photography in conjunction with communication design e.g. - because simple courses will not be sufficient. Most important: have a plan B up your sleeve, a degree is going to help you there.

On the other hand, if you'd like to know if you're ready to turn pro: no, not even close. That's based upon your work displayed on your flicker account. Yes, you've stated that your flicker is not representative - but on what other grounds should other users answer your question then? Experienced users have given you lots of valuable input in this thread. It might be advisable to drop your defensive attitude and esteem what you've been given - even if it's not what you've hoped for. Think about offering your services to schools e.g - group shots and portraits for the yearbook are well within your capabilites imho. Advertise to take pictures of pets in peoples homes. Look for niches, start small and work it from there. You'll get a feel of the stress involved with a client and even better:  you're getting paid to shoot. With experience you'll notice where skill is holding you back and where the hardware is. Small jobs will provide you with the money needed to upgrade bit by bit. That does not make you a full time pro, but you're no longer hobbyist either. And that's a pretty cool feeling.


----------



## photoguy99

Derrel, you've been busted going off half-cocked, and since I am sick and tired of being barked at be people who _simply will not read_ I am gonna break it down for you:

I said 'has only the vaguest idea' which implies, with no ambiguity or wiggle room, 'has a vague idea' which likewise implies 'has an idea'. That is the *exact opposite* of the phrase you used which was 'has no idea'. You're wrong, end of story. Complete, exactly, backwards. Of course you'll never admit it, but it's there in black and white for anyone who cares to read.

Lest you think I am simply splitting hairs, I point out that there is a world of difference between a vague idea and no idea. No idea lets you spin your stupid analogies about cops carrying "I dunno, pistol thing?" which are wildly inaccurate. There's a world difference between knowing it's a Glock and how to use it, and being able to rattle off the model number. There's a world of difference between knowing it's an 8 cylinder Ford motor, and being able to quote the exact model number.

The point is that my acquaintance has a "Canon 1 something" issued him by the paper. Perhaps that uniquely identifies the camera. Neither he nor I know or care whether there's a whole line of Canon 1s or whether there are several generations, or what. He uses it in manual only, whether he uses the meter or not I do not know. He's obviously used tons of cameras over the years and has simply gotten past caring about more than a few basic operations. His job is taking pictures, not dicking with cameras.

Being able to rattle off model numbers is not a distinguishing mark of a professional. I know because I have a counter-example, and you only need one to prove this particular point. I don't care how many pros you've talked to that can rattle off model numbers, they are irrelevant to the point which is: not every professional knows or cares about exact model numbers.

To demonstrate the point I only need to show one. There will, no doubt, be confusion about existential versus universal quantifiers (hi, 480sparky) when you think about this, because most people have trouble with them. That's ok, that's normal, just think it through slowly and you'll be fine.

This quote from the film "Hero" seems apropos:

_I have just come to a realization! This scroll by Broken Sword contains no secrets of his swordsmanship. What this reveals is his highest ideal. In the first state, man and sword become one and each other. Here, even a blade of grass can be used as a lethal weapon. In the next stage, the sword resides not in the hand but in the heart. Even without a weapon, the warrior can slay his enemy from a hundred paces. But the ultimate ideal is when the sword disappears altogether. The warrior embraces all around him. The desire to kill no longer exists. Only peace remains.

_


----------



## manaheim

Derrel said:


> manaheim said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can be a "pro" with a Canon Rebel and $200 in used glass.
> 
> However, so can EVERYONE ELSE.
> 
> You're up against competition from ridiculous amounts of people who had the same idea as you.
> 
> You're considering a career in what is considered one of the worst professions from a standpoint of likely success/financial gain.
> 
> Really... don't.
> 
> Oh and this thread has the word "professional" in the title, which means it'll go off the rails, spiral, will turn into a 12 page thread and get locked. Go ahead... prove me wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There. Everything you need to know in ONE, single, succinct post. Seriously techboy, manaheim just said about all there is to say to the young, aspiring pro with an as-yet-developing FLickr web profile. If you want another, more at-length article about going pro, read Ken Rockwell's brutally honest suggestions about getting a regular job, and doing photography on the weekends and after work, and so on.How to Become a Professional Photographer
> 
> As he says, "_The only way to do this is to keep your real job and do photography on your own time." And "_*Jobs in Photography Pay Poorly* In 2010, the US Bureau of Labor Statistics documents that the median pay for photographers is $29,130 per year, or $14 per hour. "Median" pay means that half of photographers make _less_ than this. You'd make the same as abus driver, day laborer, security guard or a local delivery route driver &#8212; and _each_ of those jobs has _ten times_ as many jobs available as there are for photographers."
> 
> However, if you realllllllly wanna "go pro", well...​
Click to expand...


BTW, that's about $7K more a year than garbage truck drivers.


----------



## runnah

I have no desire to be a paid professional. I'd like to develop professional quality skills but do it as a full time job? Hell no.

I make too much money doing what I do now. I'd have to take a giant pay cut to do photography full time. I am happy keeping it as a fun hobby.


----------



## chanda95

I have a friend with a degree in photography. Super talented woman. Takes beautiful photos. The best job she has gotten to date is working for the hospital taking pictures of newborns. Honestly I admit to being so far from that level that being a pro isn't even on my radar but I am a graphite artist..and a lot of my experience in that realm is similar to the realm of photography, from what I can tell anyway.  Its tough and the competition is fierce and for what you have to do or go through, the pay just isn't there. Now if you absolutely love it, great, but really don't hold any expectations that you are gonna get rich. I work a full time job and draw on the side. I work to support my hobby basically...if I get a piece sold or a commission out of the deal, even better. A lot of people I know in the photography and art world do the same. Honestly, the portfolio, as everyone has said, is key. We live in a high tech world and if you are interested in pursuing a career in photography get your crappy pictures off the net and only post your best..you have to sell yourself. I don't put every drawing I do up for inspection..I also agree that if you want to pursue this you need a professional website. I don't for my art because I am just a small town local artist. If I wanted to get known..the webpage would be done. 

Honestly, you need to set goals. By professional what field? Portraits...sports...wildlife? What's your niche? Where do you want to take your photography? I am new so don't know you or what you have done but I have looked at your flickr account and its all over the place.It shows you are diverse and willing to photograph anything but, as you openly admit, they aren't what you would have in your portfolio. Problem with that is that you advertise your account. Anybody can see it and I think those photos would take away from any good you had in your portfolio.


----------



## Steve5D

I'm guessing the OP isn't coming back. He got opinions he didn't want, so he left.

It happens...


----------



## Raj_55555

photoguy99 said:


> I said 'has only the vaguest idea' which  implies, with no ambiguity or wiggle room, 'has a vague idea' which  likewise implies 'has an idea'.


Statement 1: He *has only the vaguest idea *about what camera he uses.
Statement 2: He *has an idea *about what camera he uses.

:raisedbrow: Nope, I'm not buying it! But what do I know, English is after all my third language.


----------



## kathyt

Nursing is a good field.


----------



## tecboy

Steve5D said:


> I'm guessing the OP isn't coming back. He got opinions he didn't want, so he left.
> 
> It happens...



Huh, you want another fight?  Let's hope the Jedi Bunny doesn't lock this thread.


----------



## Steve5D

tecboy said:


> Steve5D said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm guessing the OP isn't coming back. He got opinions he didn't want, so he left.
> 
> It happens...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Huh, you want another fight?  Let's hope the Jedi Bunny doesn't lock this thread.
Click to expand...


A "fight"? What in the Hell are you talking about?

You asked what people thought about you trying to go pro. People told you what they thought. 

Almost without exception, you were told you're not ready.

You made excuses for bad photographs, even going so far as to say it was a "bad track". That's laughable, considering that you got some very nice shots at that track. I guess it's only a "bad track" sometimes, right? What track was that, anyway?

Basically, you were expecting everyone to coddle you and tell you that you should go for it. Well, you probably need to start wrapping your head around the fact that you're simply not at a stage where turning pro should even be a remote consideration. Nothing we have to view indicates that you're ready. Oddly, though, you don't want us to form our opinions based on what's out there for us to see. 

You're not ready to be a professional. Right now, you shouldn't even be thinking that far ahead. You need to be learning.

Photographically speaking, if you were thrown into a pool, you'd be unable to swim...


----------



## tecboy

Steve5D said:


> tecboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steve5D said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm guessing the OP isn't coming back. He got opinions he didn't want, so he left.
> 
> It happens...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Huh, you want another fight?  Let's hope the Jedi Bunny doesn't lock this thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A "fight"? What in the Hell are you talking about?
> 
> You asked what people thought about you trying to go pro. People told you what they thought.
> 
> Almost without exception, you were told you're not ready.
> 
> You made excuses for bad photographs, even going so far as to say it was a "bad track". That's laughable, considering that you got some very nice shots at that track. I guess it's only a "bad track" sometimes, right? What track was that, anyway?
> 
> Basically, you were expecting everyone to coddle you and tell you that you should go for it. Well, you probably need to start wrapping your head around the fact that you're simply not at a stage where turning pro should even be a remote consideration. Nothing we have to view indicates that you're ready. Oddly, though, you don't want us to form our opinions based on what's out there for us to see.
> 
> You're not ready to be a professional. Right now, you shouldn't even be thinking that far ahead. You need to be learning.
> 
> Photographically speaking, if you were thrown into a pool, you'd be unable to swim...
Click to expand...


Dude!  Chill out!  I was joking!


----------



## imagemaker46

A point about my own personal fortune made from being a professional photographer and depending on who knows or doesn't me, regarded as a pretty good one. I've had years that top out over a $100k and other years under $30k, but always falling somewhere in the middle. This has started off as a good year, last year sucked. I bought new gear this year and that puts me behind again.  The thing is that I really enjoy what I do, when I'm shooting, when I'm not shooting, I'm stressing about it. it's a job. like any other job, and completely different from any other job.  It's a job that all kinds of people want to do, but not all people are cut out for it, especially as freelancers.


----------



## Steve5D

tecboy said:


> Steve5D said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tecboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Huh, you want another fight?  Let's hope the Jedi Bunny doesn't lock this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A "fight"? What in the Hell are you talking about?
> 
> You asked what people thought about you trying to go pro. People told you what they thought.
> 
> Almost without exception, you were told you're not ready.
> 
> You made excuses for bad photographs, even going so far as to say it was a "bad track". That's laughable, considering that you got some very nice shots at that track. I guess it's only a "bad track" sometimes, right? What track was that, anyway?
> 
> Basically, you were expecting everyone to coddle you and tell you that you should go for it. Well, you probably need to start wrapping your head around the fact that you're simply not at a stage where turning pro should even be a remote consideration. Nothing we have to view indicates that you're ready. Oddly, though, you don't want us to form our opinions based on what's out there for us to see.
> 
> You're not ready to be a professional. Right now, you shouldn't even be thinking that far ahead. You need to be learning.
> 
> Photographically speaking, if you were thrown into a pool, you'd be unable to swim...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dude!  Chill out!  I was joking!
Click to expand...


No you weren't. You were reacting.

You don't like what's being said. You don't like that everyone, almost to a man, is telling you you're not ready; probably because you think you are. You wanna' "go pro"? Knock yourself out. It's only going to benefit every other photographer in your market. 

Get to a point where you're able to accept responsibility for poor photographs, instead of blaming a "bad track" (what the Hell does that even mean?), or by saying that bad lighting doesn't mean it's a bad picture. News flash, Chief: IT DOES.

If you're only going to make excuses, and not take responsibility, then there's really little point in talking to you.

Actually, if you're only going to make excuses, and not take responsibility, then there's really little point in asking your original question...


----------



## tecboy

Steve5D said:


> tecboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steve5D said:
> 
> 
> 
> A "fight"? What in the Hell are you talking about?
> 
> You asked what people thought about you trying to go pro. People told you what they thought.
> 
> Almost without exception, you were told you're not ready.
> 
> You made excuses for bad photographs, even going so far as to say it was a "bad track". That's laughable, considering that you got some very nice shots at that track. I guess it's only a "bad track" sometimes, right? What track was that, anyway?
> 
> Basically, you were expecting everyone to coddle you and tell you that you should go for it. Well, you probably need to start wrapping your head around the fact that you're simply not at a stage where turning pro should even be a remote consideration. Nothing we have to view indicates that you're ready. Oddly, though, you don't want us to form our opinions based on what's out there for us to see.
> 
> You're not ready to be a professional. Right now, you shouldn't even be thinking that far ahead. You need to be learning.
> 
> Photographically speaking, if you were thrown into a pool, you'd be unable to swim...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dude!  Chill out!  I was joking!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No you weren't. You were reacting.
> 
> You don't like what's being said. You don't like that everyone, almost to a man, is telling you you're not ready; probably because you think you are. You wanna' "go pro"? Knock yourself out. It's only going to benefit every other photographer in your market.
> 
> Get to a point where you're able to accept responsibility for poor photographs, instead of blaming a "bad track" (what the Hell does that even mean?), or by saying that bad lighting doesn't mean it's a bad picture. News flash, Chief: IT DOES.
> 
> If you're only going to make excuses, and not take responsibility, then there's really little point in talking to you.
> 
> Actually, if you're only going to make excuses, and not take responsibility, then there's really little point in asking your original question...
Click to expand...


I was joking, because I knew you were reacting to this.  You need to loosen up.  You get too serious!


----------



## vintagesnaps

Could everyone keep in mind that we're talking to a student (not sure how young/old a student, but I'm pretty sure a student). If there's a comment that seems to be a reaction and someone doesn't feel it's appropriate I think it would be better to at least try to say so in a professional way.


----------



## Steve5D

tecboy said:


> Steve5D said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tecboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dude!  Chill out!  I was joking!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No you weren't. You were reacting.
> 
> You don't like what's being said. You don't like that everyone, almost to a man, is telling you you're not ready; probably because you think you are. You wanna' "go pro"? Knock yourself out. It's only going to benefit every other photographer in your market.
> 
> Get to a point where you're able to accept responsibility for poor photographs, instead of blaming a "bad track" (what the Hell does that even mean?), or by saying that bad lighting doesn't mean it's a bad picture. News flash, Chief: IT DOES.
> 
> If you're only going to make excuses, and not take responsibility, then there's really little point in talking to you.
> 
> Actually, if you're only going to make excuses, and not take responsibility, then there's really little point in asking your original question...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was joking, because I knew you were reacting to this.  You need to loosen up.  You get too serious!
Click to expand...


Oh, so you're ready to take responsibility for the quality of the photos of yours that are available for people to view?

Because, once you do that, you'll reach the only reasonable conclusion: You're not ready...


----------



## Steve5D

vintagesnaps said:


> Could everyone keep in mind that we're talking to a student (not sure how young/old a student, but I'm pretty sure a student). If there's a comment that seems to be a reaction and someone doesn't feel it's appropriate I think it would be better to at least try to say so in a professional way.



Tried that.

He blamed it on a "bad track", and tried to promote the idea that photos which were bad because of lighting weren't really bad at all.

I'm not about to assume this is a student, simply because he/she has offered spare little on which to determine that. Frankly, it's every bit as likely that it's a 40 year old who's fed up with his/her current career...


----------



## AR76

tecboy said:


> I was joking, because I knew you were reacting to this.  You need to loosen up.  You get too serious!



Such conduct is commonly regarded as trolling. As I tried to convey in a friendly manner before, you may want to show some respect for the time and effort
members of the community invest to attend your requests. It's when you're told where your shortcommings lie that you can profit the most.
You can always choose to ignore it of course, but that makes it all rather pointless  - doesn't it?


----------



## manaheim

He said he was joking.  I suggest we all take each other at their word and chill out.


----------



## tecboy

AR76 said:


> tecboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was joking, because I knew you were reacting to this.  You need to loosen up.  You get too serious!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Such conduct is commonly regarded as trolling. As I tried to convey in a friendly manner before, you may want to show some respect for the time and effort
> members of the community invest to attend your requests. It's when you're told where your shortcommings lie that you can profit the most.
> You can always choose to ignore it of course, but that makes it all rather pointless  - doesn't it?
Click to expand...


You don't know Steve.  There will be time you are going to hate him, and there will be time you are going to love him.  He likes to get peoples' throat.


----------



## AR76

tecboy said:


> You don't know Steve. ... He likes to get peoples' throat.



You're right. I don't know him yet and it's obvious he does not back out easily. I'm saying this without any appraisal.
My comment was not limited to that fact alone though. Speaking for myself, it's nothing personal when I give you
negative feedback on your available images. If I didn't care, I simply wouldn't answer.


----------



## Steve5D

tecboy said:


> AR76 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tecboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was joking, because I knew you were reacting to this.  You need to loosen up.  You get too serious!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Such conduct is commonly regarded as trolling. As I tried to convey in a friendly manner before, you may want to show some respect for the time and effort
> members of the community invest to attend your requests. It's when you're told where your shortcommings lie that you can profit the most.
> You can always choose to ignore it of course, but that makes it all rather pointless  - doesn't it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't know Steve.  There will be time you are going to hate him, and there will be time you are going to love him.  He likes to get peoples' throat.
Click to expand...


Don't flatter yourself, Sport. You don't know me, either...


----------



## Steve5D

I'm still waiting to learn where the "bad track" was...


----------



## ThinBlueLine

Don't ask the internet for support. Even if you were ready, you'd have hundreds of people telling you that you aren't. Only you truly know if you're capable of running a photography business
and meeting the requests of your clients.


----------



## Tamgerine

tecboy said:


> AR76 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tecboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was joking, because I knew you were reacting to this.  You need to loosen up.  You get too serious!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Such conduct is commonly regarded as trolling. As I tried to convey in a friendly manner before, you may want to show some respect for the time and effort
> members of the community invest to attend your requests. It's when you're told where your shortcommings lie that you can profit the most.
> You can always choose to ignore it of course, but that makes it all rather pointless  - doesn't it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't know Steve.  There will be time you are going to hate him, and there will be time you are going to love him.  He likes to get peoples' throat.
Click to expand...


Instead of trying to get a reaction from people why aren't you participating in the legitimate discussion that is attempting to occur in this thread? Genuinely curious.


----------



## tecboy

Steve5D said:


> I'm still waiting to learn where the "bad track" was...



Let it go.  I still like my photos even the racetrack is bad.


----------



## tecboy

ThinBlueLine said:


> Don't ask the internet for support. Even if you were ready, you'd have hundreds of people telling you that you aren't. Only you truly know if you're capable of running a photography business
> and meeting the requests of your clients.



Thanks, I was not asking for support.  I was asking for information.  Maybe I should rewrite the title, "How to become a pro-photographer, or what is like to be one?"


----------



## Warhorse

> I'm thinking about going as a professional photographer



Not to nitpick your English, but where are you going? :mrgreen:


----------



## photoguy99

If you're Pro, the only opinion that matters is the client's. It doesn't matter if you like your photos. If you're shooting for yourself, yours is the only opinion that matters.

If you're shooting for yourself, and if you pay attention, and if you have some taste, and if you're honest with yourself and still like your photos, then you might be on to something. You might be making photos with a bit of importance, you might be making photos some people like because they're good.

Most people like photographs mainly because they look like other photos. Clients might say they want your artistic vision, but what they really want is some photos that look like these other photos. In particular, people don't like photos because they're good, usually. They like them because they are familiar, or have obvious markings that the viewer thinks means 'good'. Shallow DoF for example. Or simply in focus.


----------



## Steve5D

tecboy said:


> Steve5D said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm still waiting to learn where the "bad track" was...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let it go.  I still like my photos even the racetrack is bad.
Click to expand...


Yeah.

If your photos are bad, it's not the track's fault...


----------



## Steve5D

tecboy said:


> Thanks, I was not asking for support.  I was asking for information.  Maybe I should rewrite the title, "How to become a pro-photographer, or what is like to be one?"



What exactly were you asking when you wrote this:



> I'm thinking about getting a job as a photographer and hopefully I'll earn enough money to get high end gears. * Any thought?*



Based on the available photos of yours, you are not ready. The majority of your images are not professional quality. You want to blame a race track for bad racing photos. Well, that's not what a professional would do. A professional would hunker down and get to work and get the shots. He wouldn't blame a "bad track". A professional isn't going to insist that a modeling photo is good, even the the poor lighting in the photo destroys it. 

You have a lot to learn before you get to the point where you're charging people...


----------



## bribrius

Steve5D said:


> tecboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, I was not asking for support. I was asking for information. Maybe I should rewrite the title, "How to become a pro-photographer, or what is like to be one?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What exactly were you asking when you wrote this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm thinking about getting a job as a photographer and hopefully I'll earn enough money to get high end gears. *Any thought?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Based on the available photos of yours, you are not ready. The majority of your images are not professional quality. You want to blame a race track for bad racing photos. Well, that's not what a professional would do. A professional would hunker down and get to work and get the shots. He wouldn't blame a "bad track". A professional isn't going to insist that a modeling photo is good, even the the poor lighting in the photo destroys it.
> 
> You have a lot to learn* before you get to the point where you're charging people*...
Click to expand...

does this mean i'm a professional even though I take some seriously chit shots because I occasionally get paid?

Hey, look, I'm a pro now and didn't even know it.


----------



## tecboy

Steve5D said:


> tecboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, I was not asking for support.  I was asking for information.  Maybe I should rewrite the title, "How to become a pro-photographer, or what is like to be one?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What exactly were you asking when you wrote this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm thinking about getting a job as a photographer and hopefully I'll earn enough money to get high end gears. * Any thought?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Based on the available photos of yours, you are not ready. The majority of your images are not professional quality. You want to blame a race track for bad racing photos. Well, that's not what a professional would do. A professional would hunker down and get to work and get the shots. He wouldn't blame a "bad track". A professional isn't going to insist that a modeling photo is good, even the the poor lighting in the photo destroys it.
> 
> You have a lot to learn before you get to the point where you're charging people...
Click to expand...


Where are you going with this?


----------



## runnah

tecboy said:


> Where are you going with this?



Isn't it obvious? You asked if you were ready and everyone has said you aren't. Instead of taking it to heart you have backed up the excuse truck and dumped a load of bs on this thread.  

Part of my job is taking photos at construction sites which happen to be very ugly, dirty and bad light. I do the best I can because I can't change the location. I don't blame the location, the people or the light, I do my job and take the best photos possible.


----------



## Derrel

runnah said:
			
		

> SNIP>Part of my job is taking photos at construction sites which happen to be very ugly, dirty and bad light. I do the best I can because I can't change the location. I don't blame the location, the people or the light, I do my job and take the best photos possible.



I feel bad for you runnah...all those dirty old Maine-area construction sites...

Here on the west coast, we take those big piles of construction gravel and hose them down to give them a sexy shine...that just-outta'-the-shower look... we take the old yucky cement form boards and paint them pretty pastel colors, or hire local youth gangs to graffiti cover them in cool, hip, urban gang-graffiti styles--looks awesome. We take the muddy areas and throw surplus Gulf War camo netting over them, and then throw down duck and goose decoys, so it looks just like a field with pretty duckies and geeses lounging about...and the old beer cans, we paint yellow, then add tufts of green cottonballs on the ends to make them look sorta like ears of corn instead of COors Light cans!!!! ...and the old board fragments and 2x4 ends and small plywood sheet sections, we take those and build fires with and ring the site, so it looks like a hobo bivouac area!!! These kind of small attention-to-detail steps help make our west coast construction site pics look like they belong in Better Homes and Building Sites Magazine's spring issue!


----------



## tecboy

runnah said:


> tecboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where are you going with this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't it obvious? You asked if you were ready and everyone has said you aren't. Instead of taking it to heart you have backed up the excuse truck and dumped a load of bs on this thread.
> 
> Part of my job is taking photos at construction sites which happen to be very ugly, dirty and bad light. I do the best I can because I can't change the location. I don't blame the location, the people or the light, I do my job and take the best photos possible.
Click to expand...


Derrel and Vintagesnap have answered my question.  They are the real pro-photographers, and they are very helpful since the beginning.  So, relax and chill out!


----------



## runnah

Derrel said:


> I feel bad for you runnah...all those dirty old Maine-area construction sites...  Here on the west coast, we take those big piles of construction gravel and hose them down to give them a sexy shine...that just-outta'-the-shower look... we take the old yucky cement form boards and paint them pretty pastel colors, or hire local youth gangs to graffiti cover them in cool, hip, urban gang-graffiti styles--looks awesome. We take the muddy areas and throw surplus Gulf War camo netting over them, and then throw down duck and goose decoys, so it looks just like a field with pretty duckies and geeses lounging about...and the old beer cans, we paint yellow, then add tufts of green cottonballs on the ends to make them look sorta like ears of corn instead of COors Light cans!!!! ...and the old board fragments and 2x4 ends and small plywood sheet sections, we take those and build fires with and ring the site, so it looks like a hobo bivouac area!!! These kind of small attention-to-detail steps help make our west coast construction site pics look like they belong in Better Homes and Building Sites Magazine's spring issue!



I've tried to spruce up the occasional site by using some tasteful throw pillows.


----------



## Steve5D

tecboy said:


> Steve5D said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where are you going with this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.
> 
> A professional photographer doesn't blame the subject. He doesn't blame the lighting and he doesn't blame his environment. He mans up and accepts the fact that his photos are bad because he, and he alone, has screwed up.
> 
> Since it's glaringly obvious that you're unable to yet do that, you are woefully ill-prepared to be a "professional".
> 
> That's where I'm going with that...
Click to expand...


----------



## Steve5D

tecboy said:


> Derrel and Vintagesnap have answered my question.  They are the real pro-photographers, and they are very helpful since the beginning.  So, relax and chill out!



You only like what they had to say because they weren't critical of you, your approach, and your photos.

You don't care about being a professional photographer, you only care about people liking you. That's good, because it's doubtful you'll ever be a professional photographer...


----------



## photoguy99

I've never hired a professional photographer.

I'm surprised to hear that, unlike professionals in every other discipline, they never make excuses.


----------



## manaheim

Ok, I think that's enough. 

For those of you with dissenting opinions, my advice for you in the future is to state your case and then move on. If a person is not going to be sold initially, they're not going to be sold by further brow-beating either.


----------

