# Mt Baker Winery bottle shot



## Dominantly (Feb 2, 2010)

A shot for bottle advertisement.


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## Sachphotography (Feb 2, 2010)

Bottle is off center. Its kinda dark The bottle is a little on the soft side too. Om sorry I don't have good comments for you.


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## Dominantly (Feb 2, 2010)

Oh, don't be sorry.
I put the bottle in that position, and set the exposure. I also added a light to illuminate the background to give the bottle shape, which it does. The bottle is also dark glass so that's what you might be mistaking for "softness". The label which is at the same focal plane is pretty sharp, I've seen it blown up pretty big.

Thanks for posting btw


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## Sachphotography (Feb 2, 2010)

I see what your saying.
Why is the top of the bottle cut off not showing the whole thing?


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## Dominantly (Feb 2, 2010)

Well, because that's where my background ended  which is a large leather photo album.


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## C.Lloyd (Feb 2, 2010)

So you need a taller background! 

And I'd like to see the circle of light behind both shoulders of the bottle, instead of the bottle blending into the black background on the left side.

Also, the catchlight is too obviously a softbox. A single long, thin light source reflecting in the bottle would be better.

Good concept, although a little obvious. But it looks well set-up and classy.


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## Dominantly (Feb 2, 2010)

Does the top of the bottle make a huge difference?

I could have placed the background on maybe a book or something to give it another half inch, I just didn't see the need as I thought the focus would be at the label and not the black bottle. I toned down the light on the background in PS, so I could redo that pretty easily to get both shoulders backlit.
As far as the catchlight goes it is one giant softbox  but cleaned it up/shaped it already. It would be pretty easy to get that smooth linear light edited in, I will do that for sure, thatnks for the good info!

I may do a reshoot, I shot this at like 10pm just to get a shot off for the project 365. But ended up liking the flow of it enough to try and figure out how this would work for an advertisement.


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## C.Lloyd (Feb 2, 2010)

Yes, the top of the bottle matters.

Ranks right up there with cutting off a hand on the no-no list.


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## Sachphotography (Feb 2, 2010)

I would try the label in an almost macro zoom. IDK just me.


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## molested_cow (Feb 2, 2010)

That orange reflection doesn't make sense for this photo.

The bottle doesn't really show a good definition of its form, which is a cylinder. Right now, it looks flat. You will have to focus on the environmental set up more than the object itself to get the right kind of reflection. Glossy objects are way more difficult than matte or satin ones.

For dark objects, I will recommend using a light background to create better definition as well as some reflection to define the back of the object. If not, again, you will have to play with white planes to create that right reflection. You definitely need a second person to adjust the set up while you look into the view finder. Otherwise it will be super tedious.


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## Dominantly (Feb 2, 2010)

Alright fukrs  Now I'm very inclined to do a re-shoot. I think I might try something a bit different, but with the same concept. I'll update the thread with new results when they come in.


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## epatsellis (Feb 2, 2010)

Personally, I feel the concept is kitsch, to put it mildly. However, if that's what the client wants, they're paying the bill, so....

I agree with the  comments previously posted. I would also add:
The softbox reflected in the bottle looks wrong, as does the aforementioned tungsten light added on the right side of the image and the other misc. reflections make the bottle look cluttered. It's generally considered a good idea to use a silver reflector behind the bottle (carefully trimmed to match the shape of the bottle from the camera viewpoint) to add some sparkle and color to the wine in the bottle. I use silver mylar drymounted to mat board, you could just as easily spray glue some aluminium foil to some mat board scraps. 

The lack of a highlight to define the shape of the bottle makes the shape vague. Well done low key glass shots work well, but need a stronger composition to pull it off. I would add that if you want to shoot glassware and bottles, you really need to get a copy of "Light, Science & Magic" by Fil Hunter. Specifically, the section on dark field photography is apropos here.

Learn how to use reflectors and flags, they'll allow you to place your highlights, birng your shadows up in value a bit (four color offset printing can only reproduce 4-5 stops of information, if everything is dead on and perfect, so a lower contrast image will look better in print. 

The bottle should be rotated clockwise, you don't want to show the surgeon generals warning, but instead emphasize the label. 

The composition is too static, with nothing to lead the eye to any focal point, an asymmetrical composition with a leading line of grapes would work better. Having the bottle dead center doesn't allow you room for your copy, and relegates the image to  a "pretty background". By using an asymmetrical composition, you allow yourself room for your copy, and with good typography, make the bottle the focal point of the ad. BTW, other than it's what you had on hand, is there any reason why you have both white and red grapes? 

On the subject of grapes, I'll give you some advice. First, buy some florists foam at a hobby store and spray it with Krylon ultraflat black. Then carefully remove every grape from the bunch (you'll need about 2 to 3x what you'll end up with). Throw away any that have any defect whatsoever (or better yet, put them in a collander, rinse them and snack on them for the next couple of hours while you polish grapes. After all the bad grapes have been weeded out, take a cloth moistened with vegetable oil and wipe each grape down, followed by a dry cloth to polish them. When your done with that, get some black toothpicks at a part supply store. Finally, clean the ends of the bunch stem, leaving it clean. A quick few coats of Krylon matte finish and let it dry. Now start to build your bunches on set, using the black foam to support the stem, and the toothpicks as needed to position the grapes realistically into bunches. The idea is to have cascading bunches of absolutely perfect grapes. After you're satisfied, take a spray bottle with a mix of distilled water and glycerin and lightly spray the grapes, if you want a droplet at just the right place, use an eyedropper, or tweezers to place. It's a lot of work, but the results will speak for themselves.  

Unless you're printing an odd shaped poster, the proportions are wrong, you want to work closer to the aspect ratio of 4x5, or so. Specifically, for a full page ad, you want an image that is 8 3/4 x 11 1/14 (full page + 1/8" bleed) for a full page full bleed ad. While it's hard to conceptualize, after a while (or a couple decades, in my case), you "see" in that aspect ratio. 

Low key can work, and quite well, but you need to have a strong composition, good knowledge of lighting, and the ability to use light to shape the product. It's a good college try, but quite frankly, you've got a ways to go before I'd even consider it a finished product. One thing I'd suggest is a trip to Joann's or your local fabric store to buy a yard or two of Black Velvet (fabric, not the whisky...) It's expensive, but take care of it and it will last for years. 

I want to thank you, you've helped me to avoid some work I really don't want to do right now for an hour or so, and I hope some of what I've offered can be of use.

erie


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## Dominantly (Feb 2, 2010)

Great info (lots of it to take onboard).
First off, do you have any photos for reference, or to illustrate some of your techniques?
Would the reflection be better received if it was shaped, or rather narrow followed the shape of the bottle?

I didn't notice the amber light until it was brought up. I should have caught that, it was from a flood light outside the kitchen window :meh:

The grapes, well they just were on hand and offered some color, so I thought why not.
I saw the bottle rotation probably yesterday, but didn't say anything here when no one else did.

I will take what you said onboard for sure.


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## LearnMyShot (Feb 12, 2010)

Try lighting from the sides a bit more. You will get a rounder feeling in the bottle and the grapes won't look so front lit.....your highlight needs some work..it's too small an too white.....you want to feel the texture of the glass and grapes....try spritzing the grapes with a little water...it makes them feel fresh picked....good try. It's a difficult subject!


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## epatsellis (Feb 12, 2010)

Dominantly, I've been buried with work, but I'm putting together a quick howto to give you some pointers and head in the right direction, should be done after this weekend.

e


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## Dominantly (Feb 12, 2010)

Sweet, no rush!
Look forward to it, maybe make a thread with it in there and link it here... So more people will be able to find it if they search in the future!


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