# SEO(Search Engine Optimization) -  what has it done for you?



## camz (Nov 20, 2011)

I find our site turning out with Yahoo, Bing and Ask constantly within the first or second page withing certain keyword searches - words outside our business name. However with Google, being that it's so competitive and the most used search engine, I find our site in and out the first page of the search constantly. Being that we do our own SEO marketing and haven't hired a third party to perform it(it's pretty expensive, i've received quotes from others who charge between $600-$1200/month for small business and gaurantee first page placement). I've heard both sides, some say it's worth it some say it isn't worth it to hire. 

My question is to those who use or have info regarding SEO, do you have any data or experience maintaining a first page placement with your keywords within the major search engines? Any significant advantages if any at all being that you're constantly on the first page, wether it maybe organic SEO, placement pages, or adsense?


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## spacefuzz (Nov 20, 2011)

What type of photography business? I imagine front page for say Dallas wedding photographers would be more important than if you shoot landscapes. 

There are some good books you can read on the subject, and I may be leery of people who promise 1st page listings without quality content.


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## camz (Nov 20, 2011)

lol offcourse the keywords are going to be within the the relationship of our product which is wedding and portraits. We're all in the mercy of having material within our SEO rules as we don't want to get black listed especially by google...you know how their bots get.

But I have done plenty of research. Just wondering if there is information out there to be constantly be on the first page of google searches within the members of this forum. I know there will be an advantage to otheres and I've heard the flipside.  But I think in order to be in first page constantly in google, the advantage of the market we have to hire someone to do it for us. Just too much work in order to maintain a first page placement. So I'm looking for ROI data... Organic searches vs adsense vs place page. Any input regarding the issue I'm curious to see.

Thanks space!


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## camz (Nov 22, 2011)

Some tools that might help your website SEO


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## mwcfarms (Nov 22, 2011)

I have been pretty lucky with my SEO keywording. I read a post on here last year and started doing his tips and Im consistently on the first page of google with a variety of keywords that include my hometown and the word photographer. I also blog and post content a lot and add the SEO to everyone post I do. Same keywords and combinations with the location and event I am writing about.


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## camz (Nov 22, 2011)

Thanks for the inputs Dee.  Yeah we've been hitting the first page of Google however we're in and out as like most we try to do it the Organice way through keywords and its free.  As Spacefuzz mentioned paying someone will not guarantee anything. We consistently score first page hits on MSN, Yahoo and ASK.  Google though being that our location is competitive, first page hitters go in and out like fast food unless you have a established place page or paid adds.  I'm wondering if these paid adds are even worth it sometimes as I've heard from a couple friends it gets them atleast a couple of full packaged weddings a year, I've also heard the latter.

Dee FYI check out IQphoto.  These guys have the best SEO in my area. All I see is organic..nothing paid but he scores first page for almost every single keyword I type in our area.


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## mwcfarms (Nov 22, 2011)

Thanks I'll check him out.


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## Alpha (Nov 22, 2011)

I've been doing SEO (for a while, professionally) since about 2003. Being on the first page is much better than being on the second page. Even in crowded markets, you will find that it's relatively easy with enough time, money, and determination, to make top 10. It generally gets significantly harder to move up from there. There can be significant upside to investing in moving all the way up, however. Research has shown that the #1 spot gets a significant chunk of the traffic and #2 gets something like 30% fewer hits than #1 on average (if I'm remembering the stats correctly). I do not believe that it should cost $500-$600/month for a small service-oriented website, at least in terms of an SEO professional's time. It can, however, cost money to basically "buy" links to your site (actual link buying is kind of passé but there's not really a better way to describe it). I'd be happy to take a look at your site of you want.


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## Alpha (Nov 22, 2011)

I generally see Adwords and affiliate marketing as supplements to Organic SEO. This is all market-dependent, though. In a crowded market it will take more effort to maintain a good organic ranking, but Adwords and affiliate marketing will also cost significantly more than in an uncrowded market. Without actually analyzing the competition and your target keywords, it's impossible to determine which is the "better" or more cost-effective strategy.


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## KmH (Nov 22, 2011)

For Google SEO performance - https://accounts.google.com/Service...owup=https://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/


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## camz (Nov 23, 2011)

Alpha said:


> I've been doing SEO (for a while, professionally) since about 2003. Being on the first page is much better than being on the second page. Even in crowded markets, you will find that it's relatively easy with enough time, money, and determination, to make top 10. *It generally gets significantly harder to move up from there.* There can be significant upside to investing in moving all the way up, however. Research has shown that the #1 spot gets a significant chunk of the traffic and #2 gets something like 30% fewer hits than #1 on average (if I'm remembering the stats correctly). I do not believe that it should cost $500-$600/month for a small service-oriented website, at least in terms of an SEO professional's time. It can, however, cost money to basically "buy" links to your site (actual link buying is kind of passé but there's not really a better way to describe it). I'd be happy to take a look at your site of you want.



Alpha that's where the question mark pops up for me.  I guess the return on investment would be highly significant if you're on the top two.  However, making page one might not mean much unless you make the top slot.  Great inputs Alpha!

Btw for blogs, any inputs on blogger vs wordpress? I'm thinking of revamping to wordpress soon for the seo in one as the h1,h2 is included. I want to have the options as far as the templates that wordpress has.  Personally I don't see an advantage to blogger any longer. Love to hear what you think since you do this for a living.


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## Alpha (Nov 23, 2011)

I am a wordpress fan because they have a long history of seo-oriented plugins for things like search engine-friendly url's. They also have a huge template design user base.


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## camz (Nov 30, 2011)

BTW there's a wordpress workshop going on right now on creative live:  live | creativeLIVE


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## click4corp (Dec 7, 2011)

Hello, 
I can help you with you Search Engine Optimization, and make your business rank no. 1.
just contact me on my address below if your interested.

Click4Corp
2600 K Avenue Suite 250
Plano, Texas 75074
469-441-HOST (4678)
214-260-6016 FAX
Click4Corp.com


Thanks,


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## peterbuzzrain (Dec 12, 2011)

camz said:


> Thanks for the inputs Dee.  Yeah we've been hitting the first page of Google however we're in and out as like most we try to do it the Organice way through keywords and its free.  As Spacefuzz mentioned paying someone will not guarantee anything. We consistently score first page hits on MSN, Yahoo and ASK.  Google though being that our location is competitive, first page hitters go in and out like fast food unless you have a established place page or paid adds.  I'm wondering if these paid adds are even worth it sometimes as I've heard from a couple friends it gets them atleast a couple of full packaged weddings a year, I've also heard the latter.
> 
> Dee FYI check out IQphoto.  These guys have the best SEO in my area. All I see is organic..nothing paid but he scores first page for almost every single keyword I type in our area.



What keywords are you targeting?


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## Rephargotohp (Dec 12, 2011)

You have a couple problems, One being having a .blogspot instead of a blog on yor own domain.
You have a 0 out of 10 Google page rank and no Alexis score at all

Forget Keywording, Google doesn't use it for page ranking. Yes you need effective Keywords but they won't help you with page ranking.

You need a high amount of links to your site from other sites, that is what legitimises your site to google to ensure you are not just a keyword farm.

Have everyone you know put a link to your website on their Blog/website. Write blog posts for other websites with links back to yoru site. Get feature pieces in things like The Knot that link to your site.

Anything you can think of that puts a link to your site on another website will help with your page rank.

Use all social media with link backs

Use Delicious and Digg

List your company with the wedding listing services in yru area. You know those places you see when you put in San Ramon Wedding Photograghers and you get a site that has a list of companies. GET on that list with a back link

Also be aware that your location that you search from will also change how a page placement will appear. In other words you may appear higher if you search in San Ramon than when I did it in So Cal. You came up on page 3 when I searched

That's how you do it without spending a penny


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## Rephargotohp (Dec 12, 2011)

Sorry, my Page ranker wasn't functioning, you actually have a Google Rank of 1/10
and you currently have 15 sites that link back to you


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## camz (Dec 12, 2011)

Great inputs rehpotohp and thanks alot! I'm actually revamping to our own domain by early next year and changing the site's theme. Our site does need alot of work regarding SEO. If we improve revenue by even just a few full weddings because of the revamp I'll be a happy camper and it'll be sure worth the investment and education. I'll also be dedicating around 5 more additional hours in SEO a week regarding this...maybe even more as we rebuild. Our blogspot is old news, it's time for wordpress and our own URL. I'm actually talking to one of the members from here and getting some consultation and a designer for the theme migration.

Hmm yeah we're in and out of google here in our area between page 1 and 2. I guess it's different and based on location. What do you come up on your end on *google images *regarding "San Ramon Photographer"?. Currently when I do the search from San Ramon, we come up on page 1 for images and page 2 for web.


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## Alpha (Dec 12, 2011)

I appreciate that you're trying to be helpful, but it's this kind of misinformation that causes small business owners trying to do SEO themselves to waste a lot of time and money. Let me clarify and correct a few things:

a) PR is a crude measure and is not the be-all-end-all of SEO.
b) The idea that keywords do not influence ranking is ludicrous and demonstrably wrong.
c) On average, more links is better, but quality is more important than quantity.
d) Social media involvement is important but the idea that you should leave a trail of links like a slug everywhere you go is precisely the kind of thing Google is trying to get away from (and has been moving away from for a number of years). At least 1 in 10 social media links will be a nofollow anyway.



Rephargotohp said:


> You have a couple problems, One being having a .blogspot instead of a blog on yor own domain.
> You have a 0 out of 10 Google page rank and no Alexis score at all
> 
> Forget Keywording, Google doesn't use it for page ranking. Yes you need effective Keywords but they won't help you with page ranking.
> ...


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## Alpha (Dec 12, 2011)

Edited.


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## thierry (Dec 13, 2011)

Since Google updated Panda, a huge part of gaining PR in google SERPS is the use of QUALITY backlinks. This refers to a QUALITY site that is linking to yours. This is the most important part of building SEO. Especially with Google's new Panda update, they are displaying sites in ranking due to "Trust" or like I said, depending on the quantity and QUALITY of your backlinks.


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## camz (Dec 13, 2011)

Alpha said:


> I appreciate that you're trying to be helpful, but it's this kind of misinformation that causes small business owners trying to do SEO themselves to waste a lot of time and money. Let me clarify and correct a few things:
> 
> a) PR is a crude measure and is not the be-all-end-all of SEO.
> b) The idea that keywords do not influence ranking is ludicrous and demonstrably wrong.
> ...



I feel like a little school boy when it comes to this subject matter.  I'll see you at the meeting!


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## Alpha (Dec 13, 2011)

thierry said:


> Since Google updated Panda, a huge part of gaining PR in google SERPS is the use of QUALITY backlinks. This refers to a QUALITY site that is linking to yours. This is the most important part of building SEO. Especially with Google's new Panda update, they are displaying sites in ranking due to "Trust" or like I said, depending on the quantity and QUALITY of your backlinks.



Not quite. Quality links are very helpful but they are not "the most important part" of SEO. If they ever were the most important part, it was probably some years ago. Arguably, no one factor is "most important." If there is one, it would appear to be metrics at the moment. Of course, metrics are not something you _do_. They reflect the perceived value of the site. There are many individual things that one can do to get an edge, but in my humble opinion too many people frame all of their SEO strategy in terms of things they need to _do_ when they should really be thinking in terms of what their users _want._ There may be some short term payoff to "beating the algorithm" with little things here and there but this kind of thinking betrays the fact that for the last 10 years Google has been trying to model itself after its end users. Therefore, as the algorithm becomes more sophisticated, the best way to approach optimizing a site is not to chase its every move but to build a site that engages your visitors and encourages new people to visit.

Advances in Google's algorithm toward this end move a lot more slowly than you might imagine. As a result, there has been tension for a long time between long term and short term strategy. For example, 7 years ago many people saw clearly that Google was headed in this direction, but that didn't change the fact that you could could fudge your way to the top of the list through article syndication and buying backlinks, not to mention black-hat SEO.


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## thierry (Dec 13, 2011)

Alpha said:


> thierry said:
> 
> 
> > Since Google updated Panda, a huge part of gaining PR in google SERPS is the use of QUALITY backlinks. This refers to a QUALITY site that is linking to yours. This is the most important part of building SEO. Especially with Google's new Panda update, they are displaying sites in ranking due to "Trust" or like I said, depending on the quantity and QUALITY of your backlinks.
> ...



I definetly agree with you,I apologize,  I should have used different wording. Your right, Google has really improved the way it alogrithim works. For example, a way Google can determine a site's usefulness or relevance to a keyword is when a user visits a site, how quickly they either go back to the google search or further exlpore or read into the website. Known as the bounce rate. So relevant content has a lot to do with it as well to engage your user in the specific information they are searching for.


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## photoseo (Dec 13, 2011)

Lately I've ranked a few wedding photographers that I had given that guarantee that I would get them listed on page 1 through my marketing company. They were "no where" to be found before my services. Now you should ask yourself this. Do you want to want to pay the 300-600/month fee for sponsored listings and obviously cost changes depending on the competitiveness of the city you're targeting with the understanding that once your budget has dried up your listing disappears or go with the organic listing that doesn't disappear that fast.. again all dependent on a variety of factors. Sponsored listings are worth $$ and so are organic listings EVEN if you're not in the top 5. It's about the ROI and that's food for thought. The debate is always going to exist but beyond the shadow of a doubt you'd rather be on page one than on "any" other page when it comes to local searches whether you go organic or ppc.


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## etnad0 (Dec 13, 2011)

As people have said, Wordpress is great for SEO. As somebody that runs a website for my published books (nothing to do with photography), I have done very well with LONG TAIL KEYWORDS. If you Google the phrase you'll find a ton of info. For example, instead of only using Las Vegas as a keyword, which will put me on page 150 or farther, I'd use something like Independent Book Publishers In Las Vegas. That's not one of the words I use, just an example. There is far less competition for that than Las Vegas. Not only will it be easier to get a first page result, your results are more targeted.

Most of those companies are BS and cannot guarantee page placement. The reason being is that Google ranks based on several things and the age of the website is one of them. Getting links in from other website helps as well. Hope some of this helps. You can also Google "Internet Marketing" and take some advice from the major marketers out there. Frank Kern is one person that I actually followed some advice from. Long story short, I did a 30 minute video and made sure to include the points he mentioned. I got over 30,000 visitors to my site in 2 weeks, sold 100 books, made some cash with Adsense and Amazon Associates, over 400+ new subscribers, and got incoming links from 35 other sites. There are tons of things you can do if you get creative.


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