# What kind of money can you make being a photographer?



## DZX

I really want to be a professional photographer when I get older, I will try to major in college for it (I am 16).
I was just wondering, what is the income for the average photographer? I need to know if it will be good enough to make a living off of haha. I don't know much about it yet, but I know I like to take pictures of things (nature, abstract art, etc.) Thanks. :hug::.

Sorry if I sound like a noob.


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## Overread

hmm nature is a hard area to get into. Not only is the kit very very expensive (unless you do macro only you will need long range lenses and they cost!) but also its a hard area to get money from as people don't request nature shots - they browes and only part with cash if its spare. This makes it harder to get your name out and get popular.

Most photographers that are in the industry are fashion, wedding, home and so on - taking pictures of people on request. That is where they can make money in live on a modist to good income (depending on the indevidual).
However some things to take note:

1) If you work with photography then you are working not playing. Its means more time working on devlivery of shots, post production editing, getting your name out, meeting clients - very little of your time is (comparativly speaking) spent on photographing

2) There is no point in shooting something you don't like - photography is at its heart an artistic science - you can get one side of a shot right with skills and lessons - the other has to be creative and it is hard tobe so if your heart and interest are not in it

3) Many who do make an income often do it as an aside = a website and a little bit of publicity to get a few people buying shots that they took in their free time (I would also add that for many this is how they finance their hobby as the income is erratic and not reliable)

Go for your dreams, but don't think its easy - its a long hard road


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## DZX

I realize it won't be easy, and thanks for the information. I'll take it all into consideration. I wouldn't mind taking photos of people or weddings, I was just throwing out some of the things I like to take pictures of. Also another hobby of mine is car pictures, but yeah.


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## Overread

Best thing you can really do now is (and you will hate these 2 words) Study and Practice. Those two things will get you further than most else.
But also don't forget the if you are looking to running a business that something like business studies or economics or some such other course is a good idea as well - something to show you how to make a living with something


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## JIP

There is money and opportunities in every aspect of photography it all depends on you.  Lots of people make tons of money right now in all aspects of photography including nature photography.  If you are serious about doing this look into schools like Brooks RIT or the like.  There are alot of people who make it without but there are also many who make it with an education.  Also do not think for a miute that the only way to make it in photography is weddings portraits or fashion as I said there are tons of opportunities you just have to have the talent and drive to get them.


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## DZX

Thanks for the responses, people are pretty nice here haha. I'm starting to like it. Glad I didn't get flamed like people do on most forums.
I also need a new camera, and would love a DSLR one, but can't really afford it. I was looking up some cameras and found this, and am considering getting it later on when I have the money. Is this a good idea? I know the lens it comes with won't be the best, but it will still get me started and be better than my 5.1 megapixel Nikon. Heres the link: http://www.bwayphoto.com/viewproduct.aspx?id=9551798
I think its pretty cheap for an SLR.


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## Big Mike

I agree...there are plenty of ways to make money with photography.  There are a few things to consider though.  Will it be working for someone else or working for yourself (your own business)?  
In Wedding photography, for example, the most successful photographers are often the best salesmen, not necessarily the best shooters.  To take it a step further, when the good ones reach the top, they make money by writing books or doing seminars etc.  Again, they might be better at talking than actually shooting.

The point is that it might be a good idea to educate yourself in business & sales as well as (or instead of) photography.  

A photography education will certainly open up some doors, but many find that actually learning the craft is best done with a mentor and/or real world experience.

As mentioned, it will come down to how much you want it and how hard you work for it.


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## Mullen

DZX said:


> I also need a new camera, and would love a DSLR one, but can't really afford it. I was looking up some cameras and found this, and am considering getting it later on when I have the money. Is this a good idea? I know the lens it comes with won't be the best, but it will still get me started and be better than my 5.1 megapixel Nikon. Heres the link: http://www.bwayphoto.com/viewproduct.aspx?id=9551798
> I think its pretty cheap for an SLR.


Don't buy from Broadway Photo, it's a scam site. Use a trusted site like B&H or Adorama.


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## DZX

Mullen said:


> Don't buy from Broadway Photo, it's a scam site. Use a trusted site like B&H or Adorama.


Thanks for the heads-up. Would I be able to find a good DSLR body & lens kit for $500 or under?


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## KD5NRH

DZX said:


> Thanks for the heads-up. Would I be able to find a good DSLR body & lens kit for $500 or under?



Do you have a ski mask and/or handgun?

Seriously, though, spend a lot of time bouncing back and forth between Craigslist and dpreview.com until you find something close enough and with a seller who will meet up and let you look it over before you buy.  If you're willing to put up with a little more risk, you can buy sight-unseen from eBay or Craigslist.


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## craig

Jip said it best and I second that emotion. It will take time and perseverance. Good money can be made if you give it your all. Of course there will always be nay sayers. Do as you feel and never follow.

Love & Bass


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## JIP

#1 if you are serious about a real career in photgraphy an education at a school like the ones I named in my original post is a good way to go.  A school like that can give you a very comprehensive education with all the business that is important and in a photography context.  Here are a couple of points from the Brooks website showing how programs like theirs cover the things that the photography education detractors (no offens to you meant Big Mike) always tell you to study instead:

 Describe the business, research and academic practices of the photographic field 

Communicate in writing and orally in a clear, effective, and professional manner within the academic and business photographic fields 

Describe and articulate the business, research, and academic practices and developments of the photographic arts 

Now as far as gear goes remember you are buying into a system that could follow you for a long time so it is a big decision on wich way to go.  I would not take it lightly and base your decision on price alone.


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## JimmyO

DZX said:


> Thanks for the responses, people are pretty nice here haha. I'm starting to like it. Glad I didn't get flamed like people do on most forums.
> I also need a new camera, and would love a DSLR one, but can't really afford it. I was looking up some cameras and found this, and am considering getting it later on when I have the money. Is this a good idea? I know the lens it comes with won't be the best, but it will still get me started and be better than my 5.1 megapixel Nikon. Heres the link: http://www.bwayphoto.com/viewproduct.aspx?id=9551798
> I think its pretty cheap for an SLR.




http://www.resellerratings.com/store/Broadway_Photo


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## DZX

My decision of pursuing a career in photography will ultimately be decided by if I like it enough, price will be somewhat of a concern but won't entirely change my mind. I've loved to take pictures of things since I was a kid, and it has always been a hobby of mine. I've also found that I have a sort of talent for it, and some people on the internet have mistaken some of my photos as being professionally taken, so that gives me more confidence in pursuing photography as a career. All in all I think going to college and studying and learning how to become a business-type photographer, or setting up my own business would be a great learning experience. I have a couple more years to decide what to ultimately do about my educational needs, so no need to rush that. I'll take everything into consideration, and thanks for everyones input!


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## Garbz

This question is loaded. Could be anything from nothing to owning porches if you're good and willing to put your name on a piece of plastic that people can put on their flashes, and can sell photos just on hype.


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## TheLostPhotographer

The best advice I have ever received is 'DON'T DO IT FOR THE MONEY'.

Seriously, ask yourself if you want to be a business person, or a photographer? Very few people have both skills at a high enough level to make  it successfully financially. Unfortunately, your skill as a sales person and business person is far more important than your skill as a photographer.

I have given up all commercial work. I make very little money these days, but I'm getting much more pleasure out of photography, art and life than I have ever before.


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## JerryPH

Warning:  semi-long story coming up.

When I was 16 years old, I was visiting Florida.  We had our trailer, car, dog, etc... with us.  One day, this $250,000 motorhome rolls into the spot beside my mine (just to set 
the date, we're talking 1976.  250Gs was a lot back then...lol).

We owned a doberman, as a coincidence, so did the owner of the motorhome.  I started talking with the guy and he invited me in for a drink, so I did and we chatted a while.

Eventually, the topic of his wealth came into the discussion, and he was quite open and honest that he was a multi-millionaire.  Of course, being 16, I asked how he got there.

Well I bet you are all wondering a little too, and here is what he said, near word for word...


"Son, I'm not going to tell you how I did it, but can tell you how YOU can do it"... well my ears perked higher than our dobes... lol

"well, the secret is very easy...every person has one talent that sets them aside and above everyone else.  Some people find that talent at 10, others at 100, but when they do find it, and learn to EXPLOIT it, two things happens.  The first thing is that you become very happy.  You are happy becuase you are never at work, even when working... you are always having fun.  The second thing is that money stops being an issue... and the bigger issue becomes what to do with the money you are  making!"

Well I kinda thought about it a moment, all impressed, and put that info away for a couple of years.  

Know what?  He was right. 

Now if photography is your talent, and you have a talent that sets you above and beyond everyone else, go for it.


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## Overread

Jerry and Lost make a very important point!
There is no point spending every day between 20(ish) and 65 working and getting a high salery if you hate every single day of it - because when you retire at 65 chances are your all burnt out of energy and can't enjoy the things you want to as much (if at all).
Better to earn less and enjoy every (well most) days of work


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## JerryPH

TheLostPhotographer said:


> The best advice I have ever received is 'DON'T DO IT FOR THE MONEY'.



Very few businesses require that you have the skills of a:
- business consultant
- customer service expert
- computer applications expert
- accountant
- paralegal
- web design expert
- psychologist
- expert photographer
- the odd mind reading ability now and then

- many more that I cannot think of now

... all at once in this business.  I firmly do believe that it takes STRONG business knowledge or experience to make your business survive and grow in the photography field today.  Without it your business with either plod along (if you are lucky), or just fail.

The same could be said of many businesses, but photography seems to amplify many aspects outside taking good pictures a lot more.


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## GeorgiaOwl

Man, I want to own those porches!


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## usayit

What Jerry said is right... but you also have to be realistic.  Some "unique" talents are not as marketable as others....  Right off the bat, when I hear someone ask "How much can I make doing [insert hobby or activity here]", the first thing thought that comes to mind is the individual is starting off on the wrong foot.  There is a difference between being successful at a career of choice and obtaining financial wealth. A BIG difference.

I've met (and been inspired) by those that have very little in the bank but are enjoying life to the full.  

One of my best childhood friends tried to follow the footsteps of his family and enter into the medical field.  It had prestige and a career that provided potential for wealth.  He was miserable trying for it.  Once he discovered his true path (teaching) and pursued it, things in his life went a drastic turn.  He admits that he will probably never make as much as his siblings and it took a while to come to terms with that fact.  In the end, he is probably one of the "wealthiest" people I know....

Another individual I crossed paths with was big time nyc lawyer who let me rent a room out of his cottage (small, modest) at a ski resort.  He left everything behind to become a ski instructor.... the environment and the people in the room just seem to light up when he shows up.  His good demeanor is contagious.  

In those two cases, wealth is defined in other terms... not material.  I continuously remind people that the "success" of an indivdual should not be based on the person's car or bank account.  All that means is that their "talent" is more marketable in our unfair world.

Sorry if I sound pessimistic (my friends make fun of me because of it) but  I've crossed paths with others that also have similar stories and I am approaching a similar point in my life.   I just have to conjure up the courage to make a change... or just make the current work better.  In either case, the OP is young... take the risks NOW.  Once you have a mortgage, kids, and wife that depends on you, often the choice is made for you regardless.


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## JerryPH

usayit echos my sentiments 10000000000000%!!

When I was working for someone making $250,000, I was working 20 hour days, 7 days a week.  I was tired, ill and constantly burnt out.

This company was the main reason I struck out on my own.  First thing I did was take 3 months off to physically recover, and 3 months to restructure my work carreer.  Best 6 months of my life and I was never happier that fierst year and making $10Gs that first year over making $250Gs and killing myself.  Within 6 months, I was happy, healthy and LIVED life for me and my family.  Yes I make more than that now, but that lesson of placing life and family before work is my mantra to this day.

I'd rather live as a happy pauper than the richest and most miserable lifeless man on the planet any day.


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## usayit

JerryPH said:


> usayit echos my sentiments 10000000000000%!!
> 
> When I was working for someone making $250,000, I was working 20 hour days, 7 days a week.  I was tired, ill and constantly burnt out.



Sounds exactly like a repeat movie of my life at this moment.. hehehe lol..

I joke with my friends that I am in a state where maturity/wisdom that comes with age is at balance with the immaturity of what's left of my youth.

They usually respond with "you talk too much.. just admit it and call it mid-life-crisis".

For now, I managed to work my schedule to stack hours into single days... so I now work only 5 days but they are long....  

The days when you notice "usayit" not logged into the TPF are the good ones.... he's out shootin (with family) instead of being stuck behind computers.


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## *Mike*

Photography isn't known for being lucrative...  Here's a link: US Occupational Outlook Handbook.

There are a lot more poor, or part time, photographers than there are truly successful ones.  It can be done.  You can earn a good living.  But, it's not the norm...


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## Alpha

It's like most other professions involving freelance work. You can make no money or you can make millions.


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## Dodge

JerryPH said:


> Warning:  semi-long story coming up.
> 
> When I was 16 years old, I was visiting Florida.  We had our trailer, car, dog, etc... with us.  One day, this $250,000 motorhome rolls into the spot beside my mine (just to set
> the date, we're talking 1976.  250Gs was a lot back then...lol).
> 
> We owned a doberman, as a coincidence, so did the owner of the motorhome.  I started talking with the guy and he invited me in for a drink, so I did and we chatted a while.
> 
> Eventually, the topic of his wealth came into the discussion, and he was quite open and honest that he was a multi-millionaire.  Of course, being 16, I asked how he got there.
> 
> Well I bet you are all wondering a little too, and here is what he said, near word for word...
> 
> 
> "Son, I'm not going to tell you how I did it, but can tell you how YOU can do it"... well my ears perked higher than our dobes... lol
> 
> "well, the secret is very easy...every person has one talent that sets them aside and above everyone else.  Some people find that talent at 10, others at 100, but when they do find it, and learn to EXPLOIT it, two things happens.  The first thing is that you become very happy.  You are happy becuase you are never at work, even when working... you are always having fun.  The second thing is that money stops being an issue... and the bigger issue becomes what to do with the money you are  making!"
> 
> Well I kinda thought about it a moment, all impressed, and put that info away for a couple of years.
> 
> Know what?  He was right.
> 
> Now if photography is your talent, and you have a talent that sets you above and beyond everyone else, go for it.


Thank you JerryPH for the message from the guy with the RV.  I am at a point in my life of making some business decisions about what I want to do, in particular concerning photography, and that information was very insightful.  Thanks for sharing.


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## JerryPH

I never mentioned who that man was... I found out on our last day there before we left to return back to Canada.  He was the then president of Mercury Marine.  Multi-millionaire was the tip of the ice-burg... lol!


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## JodieO

DZX said:


> I really want to be a professional photographer when I get older, I will try to major in college for it (I am 16).
> I was just wondering, what is the income for the average photographer? I need to know if it will be good enough to make a living off of haha. I don't know much about it yet, but I know I like to take pictures of things (nature, abstract art, etc.) Thanks. :hug::.
> 
> Sorry if I sound like a noob.


 
Nature work doesn't pay a lot unless you can get on staff with a major company that does things - I dunno, National Geographic comes to mind for me... 

But depending on what kind of photographer, and how you run your business (if you are in business for yourself), the variables in income is great.

I can  honestly say as a portrait photographer, my profit (i.e., after expenses, etc.)  yearly is well into six figures.  I've almost topped last years' income right now, and we aren't even halfway through the year (yes, I am sick about what my tax burden will be though in comparison to last's... *sigh*)

But it's not about "I got a camera, I wanna make some money"... it's about the business end.

If you think you will ever become a photographer, business classes and learning all about business management is ESSENTIAL to run a succesful business (moreso than the photography itself in most cases).... but is general enough to apply to other areas as well... I always think if there is even a mere chance someone may eventually get into business for themselves, it would pay off to even minor in business management in college...

But I do know that my business is one of the few that has survived through "startup"... it's something like 95% of all small businesses fail.... so it's not easy, and I hear that the average photographer only makes about $35,000/year....


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## Jim Gratiot

JodieO said:


> But it's not about "I got a camera, I wanna make some money"... it's about the business end.
> 
> If you think you will ever become a photographer, business classes and learning all about business management is ESSENTIAL to run a succesful business (moreso than the photography itself in most cases).... but is general enough to apply to other areas as well... I always think if there is even a mere chance someone may eventually get into business for themselves, it would pay off to even minor in business management in college...
> 
> But I do know that my business is one of the few that has survived through "startup"... it's something like 95% of all small businesses fail.... so it's not easy, and I hear that the average photographer only makes about $35,000/year....


 
Which means, of course, that for every $100,000+ photographer like you, there is somebody else making zero.

But Jodie, you're absolutely correct... although you're an amazing photographer, you're financially successful because you approach photography not just as an artist, but as a smart businesswoman.

But generally speaking, the most successful photographers (moneywise) are not always the best technicians. More often than not they're just better marketers than everybody else.


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## skieur

Of course, the other approach is to get a regular job in which you are paid for something else and turn it into a photography or public relations position.  It is really not that difficult if you have the skills and make the company or organization aware of them. Salary range is $60 to 90K, with a university education.  Work on the side that comes in from your on the job photography can push it over 100K and it is easier than trying to start your own business.

skieur


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## monkeyroller

Overread said:


> 1) If you work with photography then you are working not playing. Its means more time working on devlivery of shots, post production editing, getting your name out, meeting clients - very little of your time is (comparativly speaking) spent on photographing


There's a saying that once a hobby becomes a job, it's no longer about having fun. Because a hobby is something you choose to do, but a job is something you have to do.


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## craig

monkeyroller said:


> Overread said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1) If you work with photography then you are working not playing. Its means more time working on devlivery of shots, post production editing, getting your name out, meeting clients - very little of your time is (comparativly speaking) spent on photographing
> 
> 
> 
> There's a saying that once a hobby becomes a job, it's no longer about having fun. Because a hobby is something you choose to do, but a job is something you have to do.
Click to expand...


Have to say that all those things are true. Personally photography is my life. I would not have it any other way. You will find that if you love the art; marketing and mailers and pissy clients is a small price to pay for working in the field. Fun is a relative term. Beats sitting behind a desk for 8 hours.

Love & Bass


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## abraxas

monkeyroller said:


> Overread said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1) If you work with photography then you are working not playing. Its means more time working on devlivery of shots, post production editing, getting your name out, meeting clients - very little of your time is (comparativly speaking) spent on photographing
> 
> 
> 
> There's a saying that once a hobby becomes a job, it's no longer about having fun. Because a hobby is something you choose to do, but a job is something you have to do.
Click to expand...


So that's something you guys heard huh?


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## epp_b

To reiterate the sentiments of numerous others the question becomes: do you want to be a photographer or do you want to be a business person?  Most people can't do both; JodieO is the obvious exception that proves the rule.

I don't want to be a businessman.  I suck at it because I'm just not a people person.  So that also leaves out portraits and weddings, which is where the vast bulk of photography income lies.

I'd also rather be spending my time making photographic art rather than writing up contracts, managing accounts, meeting with clients, 

The ideal ways you can make an actual living on photography are:

You're a good photographer _and_ a good business person (good luck with that).
You have enough business that you can afford to hire someone to manage the business end of things for you, leaving more time and energy for you to put towards the actual photography (though, this would probably require you to be your own business person to actually get to this point).
You manage to get enough people to your website and enough of _those_ people interested in buying prints (you must be pretty dang good at this photography thing, have something very unique to offer, have good advertising and good search engine rankings)

I'm hoping I can eventually make it to the third category.  Clients could do everything through my website and all I have to do is send off the prints; and occasionally, I might cover an event or do portraits here and there to stay sharp, but I won't necessarily advertise myself for those sorts of things.

At least for now, I'm happy to slowly fund the hobby with the occasional person interested in prints or copies.


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## Overread

I think the key thing is that the money in photography is in key areas - weddings, portrait, etc... and if those areas are not your interest areas then even though your working with a camera its not going to be as fun as when your working in your interest areas.
Another important thing is to remember that the money in photography is not always in the photos side of things - infact you can make a considerable amount without having to take many photos at all and that is the teaching side of things. IF your good in an area (art, landscape, wildlife, sports, portrait etc....) then you can start workshops, tutorials and such to earn an income off. Speaking to other widlife photogrpahers this is often their main income source - not the photos themselves. 

I think to rely on a website only and have no other form of marketing or such would be many peoples ideal setup (nice simple and easy - especaily if you do printing and orders through an online printing lab) but in the real world you would have to have three things for this to work;

1) outstanding photos
2) photos that are in demand - there is little demand for shots of insect faces - there is a lot more commercial demand for nice landscapes
3) everything else -- luck - hard work - good advertising - some good prices 

I think running gallery exhibitions and craft fairs can be a very good way to get your name out - make sales and advertise yourself as well.


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## captainkimo

One can also earn from photography by putting up a website (and put ads, affiliates etc.) I just launched my website early this year and fortunately, my profits are picking up and doing good. You can also look into doing tutorials and sell them. 

Cheers!

_Captain Kimo_


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## Micah

huh?


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## Mike_E

It seems that the best money is in selling Tupperware to photographers that can't/don't/won't understand the inverse square law.  :lmao::lmao:


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## In2daBlue

Nobody on here has talked about photojournalism which is the route I took. The pay isn't in the six figures, at least for the full-time, working for the man, part of the job, but when you include a successful freelance side career shooting weddings, portraits, products, etc. you can get up that high no problem. 

I like photojournalism because I get to shoot things that most people don't have access to, see world events up close and in person, and be a part of the action. Plus, shooting breaking news brings a rush that cannot be described in words. 

With that said, it's a route that takes hard work, dedication, and a willingness to compete in a very cutthroat environment. You have to be willing to push the limits every step of the way if you're going to make it. Most people who come to me and ask if they should become a photojournalist don't understand the difficult nature of the path. But, I always tell them, that there is always room for one more shooter if they are talented enough to compete.


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## abraxas

I suppose commercial work of one type or another is essential to survival.  For me, the trick is to do as little as possible for money and to do what I love as much as possible.

I believe if I pursue money, money will consume me.  If I am consumed by money, where will the room for me be?  So far having faith that things will work out for me has worked out for me.  Money has its place, but is not the priority.

"All I want is what I need.  If I have everything I need, why would I want more?"
_Mojave Indian saying_

I do realize my little philosophy couldn't work for everyone- but I'm not everyone.

How much can you make?- How much do you want it?  There should be some kind of chart somewhere.


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## KmH

Mike_E said:


> It seems that the best money is in selling Tupperware to photographers that can't/don't/won't understand the inverse square law. :lmao::lmao:


OMG. ROTFLMAO. :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## usayit

reminds me of those late night infomercials ... so gimmicky but you'd be surprised just how much those blokes make.


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## william.younger

This is a good site I came across to make some extra cash posting your pictures.
PhotoArtMuseum. The coolest thing is...you can post your items for free.

Hope everyone is having a great Memorial Day!

Will


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## JerryPH

monkeyroller said:


> There's a saying that once a hobby becomes a job, it's no longer about having fun. Because a hobby is something you choose to do, but a job is something you have to do.



True, but there is no rule that says that you cannot have fun and totally enjoy what you do for a living/carreer.

I think that if you are having so much fun and REALLY enjoying what you do professionally, you may be working, but it sure doesn't feel like it. 

The line is that when you do it professionally, you have firm commitments to yourself, your customers and the government... and if you can handle that part, the rest is cake.


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## Alleh Lindquist

I believe Carlos Serrao Carlos Serrao &#8211; Photographer had an annual contract with Nike for $2 million for at least a couple years. It's no different than asking if someone can make money selling homes. Yes you can if you are the right person for the job. Business school and assisting other photographers will be a good start. Also don't spend to much time on forums like this they don't really offer that much in the way of real knowledge. I found books to be a much better place to learn along with practice.


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