# Nikon doesnt improve ? (Rant)



## Solarflare (Nov 6, 2013)

I am a proud owner of a Nikon D5100 and a Nikon D600.

There is a successor for the D600 out (D610) and there are already TWO successors to the D5100 (D5200, D5300).

Yesterday I watched this review of the Pentax K-3 from thecamerastore on YouTube and then it dawned me: NONE of these three new cameras fixes ANY of the bigger issue I have with my own cameras, of course with the exception of the sensor dust of the D600 (which is annoying but not my main problem with that camera).

The biggest problems I have with the D5100:
- No HSS (This is a nobrainer feature. You need to be able to use filllight, even in bright sunlight. Every professional does this all the time. Your camera cant do it ? You are not photographically complete !)
- No second cardslot for Backup (I think thats a total nobrainer and should be in EVERY SINGLE digital camera out there, no matter if point and shoot or whatever. Digital backup is a must - and not a luxury).
- No weathersealing (Again something that should be mandatory). Granted, I just use it in the rain anyway, so far without problems.

The biggest problems I have with the D600:
- There are 39 instead of 15 AF points ... but the way they are distributed is completely stupid, they are all in the center !!! I have less flexibility than with the 15 points of my D5100.
- I can accept that the D5100 is an entry level camera and the viewfinder is kinda, well, meh. But I'm wearing glasses and even with the D600, I still cant see the full image at any time, no matter how hard I try to. In fact it seems I couldnt see it with the D800 or D4 either ! What the frak ?
- The AF points are even harder to select than on the D5100 ! Because there are more AF points, but the technology to select them is still just endless clicking. The only camera that I've seen that fixes this is the new Panasonic GX7, which allows you to use the touchscreen to select focus (probably other cameras with touchscreen allow this as well).
- The button layout is frankly completely stupid and very slow to use. Especially, to change ISO, you have to fiddle with the fingers in your face if you're using the viewfinder.
- I really miss the flipscreen of my D5100 on my D600. Why does Nikon have such a great feature only in one of their cameras ?

Okay, maybe the D610 doesnt really count, because Nikon clearly released that to get rid of the shutter problem. But the D5200 and D5300 are clearly supposed to be upgrades. However, they only gave the camera more megapixels, more AF points, more this and that, but never fixed any core problems in the ergonomics and the lack of photographic completeness.

When I look at the new Pentax K-3, I kind of get the suspicion that the problem is simply how Nikon approaches camera design in itself. Instead of "okay we design a great, complete camera", like Pentax does, we get "okay we want a camera for this and that pricepoint, and we have to make a new model every X months at this pricerange".


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## JohnS. (Nov 6, 2013)

Nikon can't please everyone. 

 Also, your average Joe Shmoe that's looking to get an entry level DSLR most likely won't care about secondary memory slots and HSS. Notice you said "Every professional does this all the time". Again, the target market for the D5100 most likely won't even know what HSS is, let alone buy an external flash for it. Hell, when I bought my first DSLR many, many, many years ago (D40), I barely knew what a DSLR was. All I knew was that it was a name for a fancy camera. And weathersealing? I may agree considering it is a $600 investment and to some people, that could be a lot of freaking money, but again, think of the target market. Some may accidentally get it wet thinking it automatically comes weathersealed but that's their own fault for not reading the manual before using it lol.

I couldn't care less about FF camera's since I'm too poor to even dream of owning one .


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## amolitor (Nov 6, 2013)

Of the available, I dunno, 500 or so features that a DSLR might have, everyone has them ranked in some order and wants a camera with their top 20 and some smattering of the others.

Camera manufacturers can't produce very many different models, so they do their best to cook up 3 or 4 or 10 different combinations of features that will be "good enough" for the maximum number of people at a price those people are willing to pay. This means, basically, that almost everyone is going to be slightly dissatisfied.

It's too bad, but that's the way it goes!


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## astroNikon (Nov 6, 2013)

If you take all the features that you believe should be in the 5100, and Nikon built it in and ADDED the cost for those additional features, then that would put you at the price of the D700.  Which of course costs more.

Additional features do cost some amount of money,
and as mentioned the Nikon 3x00, 5x00 is targeted to different demographic people.

From some previous threads people find the 5x00 layout and features more than sufficient and efficient versus the 7x00, 6x0, 700, 800 series.

So .. it's people priorities and how they use those features I guess.

My first "real" digital was a D70 .. but I really knew nothing about it.
As I was looking at a camera last fall I first looked at the 3100 but it didn't have the features that I needed, so I looked at the 5100 which also did not have the features I needed. Thus I ended up with the 7000.

And the "features" that I absolutely needed and looked for were:
1 - some weathersealing
2 - can use FX lens (screw drive)

The AF points, HSS, dual card slots, etc meant absolutely NOTHING to my requirements at the time.  Matter of face I only used one card slot until I figured I might as well throw a (slow) spare card into the 2nd slot.

You have to select a camera based on your requirements and finances.

I currently would prefer the d4, but the finances prevent me from owning one.  
I don't even know if I could afford a d600.
I could barely afford a d7000 and I had to put half of it on credit card to get it but my 2 requirements above dictated it.  So it either was a d7000 or I save up and wait.

So I understand your rant, but realistically features cost money.  a D5300 is theoretically better than a d4 unless your requirements prove that a d5300 is a waste of money compared to a d4.  But if you don't have the money for a d4, you buy something else that you can afford or save up.

of course, the Pentax K3 with a lens costs $1,650.  A few more dollars than a 5x00 or even a d7100.
And there's always the K30 but it may not have the features that you want.


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## Mach0 (Nov 6, 2013)

Not to sound like an arse but if you want more features, spend more $$. It seems that you want pro grade features ( aside from the flip screen ) at entry level price. It's never gonna happen. You have to pay to play.


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## Derrel (Nov 6, 2013)

I have NEVER understood the idea of changing the ISO while the camera is at my eye, and I am in the process of taking shots...this to me seems a lot like the complaint that one cannot watch YouTube videos on one's smartphone while also simultaneously texting or conducting a voice call...in other words, a sort of made-up complaint. Of course, I grew up shooting ASA 64 Kodachrome for 10 years whenever there was "color in the camera", and I grew up shooting Tri-X at ASA 400 for 20+ years whenever there was B&W in the camera, so I am used to ASA/ISO being a basic setting that is set ahead of time, and then one "*deals with it*" knowing what the film speed simply "is", or "needs to be". So, I just absolutely can NOT see the need to be able to futz around with my ISO while looking through the viewfinder. If it's raining, I put my jacket on before I go outside.


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## astroNikon (Nov 6, 2013)

Derrel said:


> I have NEVER understood the idea of changing the ISO while the camera is at my eye, and I am in the process of taking shots...this to me seems a lot like the complaint that one cannot watch YouTube videos on one's smartphone while also simultaneously texting or conducting a voice call...in other words, a sort of made-up complaint. Of course, I grew up shooting ASA 64 Kodachrome for 10 years whenever there was "color in the camera", and I grew up shooting Tri-X at ASA 400 for 20+ years whenever there was B&W in the camera, so I am used to ASA/ISO being a basic setting that is set ahead of time, and then one "*deals with it*" knowing what the film speed simply "is", or "needs to be". So, I just absolutely can NOT see the need to be able to futz around with my ISO while looking through the viewfinder. If it's raining, I put my jacket on before I go outside.




I actually just got used to change the ISO while through the viewfinder while shooting my kids sports, whilst the sun comes out behind clouds, and goes back behind clouds nonstop.   So that feature came in handy for me to keep shutter speed up (while keeping background OOF at f/2.8).  But maybe another way of doing it ... I'm still learning.


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## Dao (Nov 6, 2013)

If Nikon build a camera that has everything people want, what are they going to do with the next version?


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## astroNikon (Nov 6, 2013)

Dao said:


> If Nikon build a camera that has everything people want, what are they going to do with the next version?



at a price everyone could afford ... 

a D6 with selectable 1 gigaflop pixel sensor and fits in your pocket for $150.00


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## Derrel (Nov 6, 2013)

astroNikon said:
			
		

> I actually just got used to change the ISO while through the viewfinder while shooting my kids sports, whilst the sun comes out behind clouds, and goes back behind clouds nonstop.   So that feature came in handy for me to keep shutter speed up (while keeping background OOF at f/2.8).  But maybe another way of doing it ... I'm still learning.



Yes, there *is* another way to do it. It is called AUTO ISO. If you check into how it works, you'll be amazed at how it works. This oughtta get you started. http://www.ehow.com/how_7559382_use-control-nikon-d7000-camera.html


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## astroNikon (Nov 6, 2013)

Derrel said:


> astroNikon said:
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> 
> ...



Yes I use Auto ISO .. but I wanted to learn more about ISO and understand at which settings the various light conditions dictate.
I use Auto ISO when I don't understand something .. then  I can see it's settings ... all a learning process.

I also was doing one soccer game in Manual versus Aperture priority, but then I was playing with getting some motion rather than just stopped the motion totally.


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## amolitor (Nov 6, 2013)

I actually change the ISO all the time, when I'm shooting basic parent pictures. I have it programmed to the front button+command dial thingy.

It's an awful nice feature. Auto ISO never really pleased me all that much, possibly the algorithm on my camera is just weak, or I just never learned to use it properly.


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## robbins.photo (Nov 6, 2013)

Well being the proud owner of a 5100 I usually do one of two things - I have the function button programmed for ISO so I press it and change iso with the wheel.  If I'm shooting in conditions where the lighting is fluctuating i'll switch to shutter priority and let the camera adjust the iso

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2


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## Derrel (Nov 6, 2013)

Well, a couple of things. FIRST, in the FX Nikon bodies, the AF areas do not cover as much of the frame area as they do in the newer, higher-end DX bodies. This is just a fact of life, so, the fact that the D600's 39 AF areas do not cover as much of the outer parts of the frame is something you have to deal with. Smaller-sensor cameras that use the 51 point AF system have almost edge-to-edge AF area coverage, which is one of the reasons the D300 and D300s were so popular with bird-in-flight photographers like our own Coastal.conn.

My experience is that with the 51-point AF system, I get my best AF performance by setting it up to use 9 of the AF points in a group, but I have it set to display only "one" AF point that actually represents nine very closely-spaced points. With the camera in portrait orientation, I can press in on the very center of the 4-way controller on the back of the camera to move the lighted AF point to dead-center, another nudge of the controller moves the active AF area one spot upward, and then finally another touch moves my AF area group to 2 spots up from dead center, and then since iI have AF area wrap set to "on", another press will move the AF area "around the corner" and back to the bottom of the frame.

Some of the older Nikon's had far,far fewer AF areas. The D2x and the D200 had 11 total AF areas. The D2x has the best AF system I've ever used. 9 of the 11 points are cross-type, and it has a wider-area, 4-area grouping system that was almost ideal for people or action work. The D2x also had a 4-mode selector switch with single-point, group, group dynamic, and AUTO-area AF selection, making it the most-complex AF system Nikon ever offered in terms of "how the system works".

Nikon cut the D2x and D2h's system down from four options, to three options in the D3 series, and then down to TWO options in the D800. So, they really simplified the AF selection and AF area mode options in the newer cameras. The thing Nikon has done is shifted the AF system more toward allowing the inbuilt computer to TRACK THE COLOR of your subject. Nikon's done a crappy job of telling people what they expect users to do, which is: use the 4-way controller to first select a subject you want to focus on, press the shutter release to focus, and then allow the camera to achieve what they call "lock-on". The camera will then read the subject's reflectance and RGB makeup (its color signature), and then try to follow that,specific object, even if it moves across the frame.

So, what we've seen is that a 4-mode AF system was replaced by a three-mode system, and then beginning with the D800, it was dumbed down to a two-mode system, with fewer options for users. Almost nobody actually reads the manual these days, and almost nobody really, truly understands exactly HOW his AF system was designed to work. Because MOST people just use single-point AF, and ignore other options, they have a lot of gripes because they are not using the system _as it was designed to be used by Nikon's engineers. _If people have a problem with 39 AF points, they're probably not full aware of exactly how the system is designed to be used.


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## amolitor (Nov 6, 2013)

Dude, I just tried out the 3D tracking mode on my lowly D3100, having TOTALLY MISSED the bit about how you have to "prime" it by telling it what to focus ON, and holy cow, it's like magic.


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## pixmedic (Nov 6, 2013)

amolitor said:


> Dude, I just tried out the 3D tracking mode on my lowly D3100, having TOTALLY MISSED the bit about how you have to "prime" it by telling it what to focus ON, and holy cow, it's like magic.



your liking it then?
i may have to try it out on the D7100 and D7000...see how it does.


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## amolitor (Nov 6, 2013)

I placed the focus point in the center, and then focus on whatever at the center.

This is important: Keep the shutter button halfway down (or equivalent, back button focus might work the same?) and wave the camera around, walk around, go nuts.

Watch IN AMAZEMENT as the focus point bounces around to remain on the thing you focused on.

The "starting" focus point returns to the center (or wherever you left it) when you release the shutter button.


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## shadowlands (Nov 6, 2013)

I use auto ISO more than I thought I would. I use it more with my D700 than I did when I shot with my former D300.
I'm more confident with ISO 3200 and 6400 now.


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## astroNikon (Nov 6, 2013)

shadowlands said:


> I use auto ISO more than I thought I would. I use it more with my D700 than I did when I shot with my former D300.
> I'm more confident with ISO 3200 and 6400 now.



Auto ISO has taught me that ISO is my friend.  When I set mine to Auto I check what it set it for.  Then look at the picture for clarity.  

I do see alot of 6400 and I wonder why but the pictures look pretty good.  It's made me start pushing my boundaries when I'm in manual ISO.  I used to not go beyond 400 ( habit from the film days of only using ASA 200 or 400 film), now I use 800, and even 1600 from time to time.  I'm testing shots up to 6400 too now.  Makes me really want to go to a FF camera for it's better ? performance.

I also saw those shots of a TPF member of inside volleyball at 10,000 ISO on a d700.


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## Derrel (Nov 6, 2013)

amolitor said:
			
		

> *Dude, I just tried out the 3D tracking mode on my lowly D3100, having TOTALLY MISSED the bit about how you have to "prime" it by telling it what to focus ON, and holy cow, it's like magic.*



I know...years ago in 2005-2006, I got hired to shoot local sports for two local newspapers under joint ownership. I was using my D2x, and using SINGLE-point AF. One day, I had to shoot a gray-day track meet, using my 300 f/4 AF-S, which is kind of a substandard focusing lens for an AF-S Nikkor...God...it blew soooo many shots due to poor focusing...I vowed that very day to figure out how to get better focus... 

I dug out the fine user manual, and read it...next track meet, I switched to Group AF mode, and my initial focus acquisition was INSTANTLY better, and my ability to TRACK running subjects went up like five-fold. After one season, I really learned how Nikon's 3-D, distance aware, color-aware focusing system actually works.

I then learned Group DYNAMIC AF mode, where it can TRACK subjects that move erratically, or across the frame. "It's like science and chit!"


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## astroNikon (Nov 6, 2013)

Derrel said:


> amolitor said:
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Back to the manual for me .... sounds like it could help me with the kids sports.  I've gotten alot better since I started doing it, but there's always room for improvement.


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## robbins.photo (Nov 6, 2013)

Derrel said:


> I dug out the fine user manual, and read it...next track meet, I switched to Group AF mode, and my initial focus acquisition was INSTANTLY better,



Wait, there is a manual?

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2


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## astroNikon (Nov 6, 2013)

robbins.photo said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> > I dug out the fine user manual, and read it...next track meet, I switched to Group AF mode, and my initial focus acquisition was INSTANTLY better,
> ...





yeah, you can down load them from the Nikon website.


ooh, and there's a paper one too in your camera box.


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## Dao (Nov 6, 2013)

amolitor said:


> I placed the focus point in the center, and then focus on whatever at the center.
> 
> This is important: Keep the shutter button halfway down (or equivalent, back button focus might work the same?) and wave the camera around, walk around, go nuts.
> 
> ...




Yeah! Those focus tracking is kind of cool.   My Canon video Cam has that and my daughter (I think she was 6 at that time) at one point tried to beat it but fail.   She flipped the screen so that it was facing her and she kept moving around shaking her head try to stop the green square from following her head.   I wish I had that video recorded.


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## robbins.photo (Nov 6, 2013)

astroNikon said:


> robbins.photo said:
> 
> 
> > Derrel said:
> ...



Sounds suspicously like stopping and asking for directions.. hmm...


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## TheLost (Nov 6, 2013)

Slow down cowboy... 



Solarflare said:


> I am a proud owner of a Nikon D5100 and a Nikon D600.
> 
> There is a successor for the D600 out (D610) and there are already TWO successors to the D5100 (D5200, D5300).
> 
> Yesterday I watched this review of the Pentax K-3 from thecamerastore on YouTube and then it dawned me: NONE of these three new cameras fixes ANY of the bigger issue I have with my own cameras, of course with the exception of the sensor dust of the D600 (which is annoying but not my main problem with that camera).



Lets keep in mind the D5100 is a $700 camera (when new) and the Pentax K-3 is a $1300 camera.  You are comparing apples to oranges... a better comparison would be the K-3 to the D7100 but lets keep going...



Solarflare said:


> The biggest problems I have with the D5100:
> - No HSS (This is a nobrainer feature. You need to be able to use filllight, even in bright sunlight. Every professional does this all the time. Your camera cant do it ? You are not photographically complete !)


Yes.. my camera can... its the D7100..  The D5200 is a lower end camera.   If you want HSS move up.



Solarflare said:


> - No second cardslot for Backup (I think thats a total nobrainer and should be in EVERY SINGLE digital camera out there, no matter if point and shoot or whatever. Digital backup is a must - and not a luxury).


Yup.. D7100



Solarflare said:


> - No weathersealing (Again something that should be mandatory). Granted, I just use it in the rain anyway, so far without problems.


Wait for it... D7100



Solarflare said:


> The biggest problems I have with the D600:
> - There are 39 instead of 15 AF points ... but the way they are distributed is completely stupid, they are all in the center !!! I have less flexibility than with the 15 points of my D5100.


Have you looked at the AF cluster on the D800? 
http://i47.tinypic.com/2dhdvk5.png

Welcome to the world of Full Frame... they don't cover the full screen.  Take a look at a D4 sometime...



Solarflare said:


> - I can accept that the D5100 is an entry level camera and the viewfinder is kinda, well, meh. But I'm wearing glasses and even with the D600, I still cant see the full image at any time, no matter how hard I try to. In fact it seems I couldnt see it with the D800 or D4 either ! What the frak ?


The large viewfinder is what lots (and i mean lots) of people want.  The more higher end you go.. the bigger it gets.



Solarflare said:


> - The AF points are even harder to select than on the D5100 ! Because there are more AF points, but the technology to select them is still just endless clicking. The only camera that I've seen that fixes this is the new Panasonic GX7, which allows you to use the touchscreen to select focus (probably other cameras with touchscreen allow this as well).


Menu option a6 on your D600..
http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/dslr/d600/img/features02/img_20.png



Solarflare said:


> - The button layout is frankly completely stupid and very slow to use. Especially, to change ISO, you have to fiddle with the fingers in your face if you're using the viewfinder.


I would have to say, that's just your opinion.  I would take Nikons layout over Canons any day of the week.  I have no problem changing ISO on my D7100 (same layout as your D600)



Solarflare said:


> - I really miss the flipscreen of my D5100 on my D600. Why does Nikon have such a great feature only in one of their cameras ?


I doubt you'll ever see a high-end nikon body with a flip-out screen...  Maybe a touch screen.. but not flippy-twisty.



Solarflare said:


> Okay, maybe the D610 doesnt really count, because Nikon clearly released that to get rid of the shutter problem. But the D5200 and D5300 are clearly supposed to be upgrades. However, they only gave the camera more megapixels, more AF points, more this and that, but never fixed any core problems in the ergonomics and the lack of photographic completeness.



Here is where we get to the meat...  The D5100 -> D5200 -> D5300 is NOT AN UPGRADE.. its an update.  A camera upgrade would be going from the D5x00 to the D7x00.. or from the D6x0 to the D800..

I hate to break it to you.. but your D600 is the D5x00 of the full frame world.  



Solarflare said:


> When I look at the new Pentax K-3, I kind of get the suspicion that the problem is simply how Nikon approaches camera design in itself. Instead of "okay we design a great, complete camera", like Pentax does, we get "okay we want a camera for this and that pricepoint, and we have to make a new model every X months at this pricerange".


As i said.. the K-3 is a competitor of the D7100 and the Canon 70D.  

The Pentax is a great camera... but you should listen closely to what Chris Niccolls says in his YouTube review you mentioned.. 
<*Quoted text from the K-3 review... around the 5:10 mark*>


> _I do find it the best pentax has to offer... but it still doesn't compete with other brands out there.  That is a weekness of this camera. [Talking about AF]
> I do find sometimes that its going to go, and it needs a little time to hesitate, and then lock in tight. And then sometimes it will loose track and hunt a little bit then catch on again. It seems pritty random. When it works it works quick.  But i still think that camers like the D7100, 5dmk3 and D800 are going to blow it away in that regard._



If you want to *improve *your Nikon... move up a model.  If you buy a soccer mom camera you are going to get soccer mom features


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## julianliu (Nov 6, 2013)

TheLost said:


> Slow down cowboy...  Lets keep in mind the D5100 is a $700 camera (when new) and the Pentax K-3 is a $1300 camera.  You are comparing apples to oranges... a better comparison would be the K-3 to the D7100 but lets keep going...  Yes.. my camera can... its the D7100..  The D5200 is a lower end camera.   If you want HSS move up.  Yup.. D7100  Wait for it... D7100  Have you looked at the AF cluster on the D800? http://i47.tinypic.com/2dhdvk5.png  Welcome to the world of Full Frame... they don't cover the full screen.  Take a look at a D4 sometime...  The large viewfinder is what lots (and i mean lots) of people want.  The more higher end you go.. the bigger it gets.  Menu option a6 on your D600.. http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/dslr/d600/img/features02/img_20.png  I would have to say, that's just your opinion.  I would take Nikons layout over Canons any day of the week.  I have no problem changing ISO on my D7100 (same layout as your D600)  I doubt you'll ever see a high-end nikon body with a flip-out screen...  Maybe a touch screen.. but not flippy-twisty.  Here is where we get to the meat...  The D5100 -> D5200 -> D5300 is NOT AN UPGRADE.. its an update.  A camera upgrade would be going from the D5x00 to the D7x00.. or from the D6x0 to the D800..  I hate to break it to you.. but your D600 is the D5x00 of the full frame world.  As i said.. the K-3 is a competitor of the D7100 and the Canon 70D.  The Pentax is a great camera... but you should listen closely to what Chris Niccolls says in his YouTube review you mentioned.. <Quoted text from the K-3 review... around the 5:10 mark>  If you want to improve your Nikon... move up a model.  If you buy a soccer mom camera you are going to get soccer mom features




"Thelost" just said everything I wanted to say and more ! 

Your rant just does not make sense. First you complain about d5100, then you said d600 is not good as d5100 in many ways. I mean don't you find it confusing ? They are different camera towards different people, no real comparison anyway!


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## slow231 (Nov 7, 2013)

+1 to the lost's points.  i'd also add that the G7 is a mirrorless camera, so touch-to-af point is something possible because it's live view (just like with most smart phone cameras).  When looking through the viewfinder (mirror flipped down) you're dealing with discrete AF points from the phase detect af sensor.  if you don't understand the advantage of phase detect af then you're completely missing the point of one of the main advantages of mirrored dslrs. i'd take phase detect all day to contrast detect (touch to focus or otherwise).  also the iso button REALLY isn't that difficult to learn and find, BUT you can also set your iso to adjust off of the dead dial in A/S modes which makes it stupid easy to adjust on the fly.  the OP's "rant" comes off as a lot more as a demo of his/her lack of understanding of his/her own cameras and/or camera systems in general, and not at all an indication of nikon's lack of improvements (a point that really could otherwise be argued).


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## TheFantasticG (Nov 7, 2013)

I lol'd pretty good at the original post because what was said in the above two posts was going through my head as I read it.


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## Solarflare (Nov 7, 2013)

astroNikon said:


> If you take all the features that you believe should be in the 5100, and Nikon built it in and ADDED the cost for those additional features, then that would put you at the price of the D700.  Which of course costs more.


 Doubtful, because I didnt demand the built quality of the D7000 (which, I would assume, you wanted to name, instead of the D700). Weathersealing probably might cost some, OK. Whats so extremely expensive about a second memory card slot and even more whats so expensive about HSS ? I'm not aware the later needs any additional hardware ?

And again, Nikon added all kinds of stuff in the D5200 and made the camera more expensive for it. Still no HSS. Why ? I have a kickass autofokus system in there and 24 Megapixel and whatnot. Its as good or better as the D7000 now. But it still lacks a basic feature of flash photography. Why ?????





astroNikon said:


> So .. it's people priorities and how they use those features I guess.


 I think HSS is the only thing missing to make the D5100 photographically complete.





Mach0 said:


> Not to sound like an arse but if you want more features, spend more $$.


 But thats exactly the point and the motivation for my rant !!! I can spend as much money as I want, I'll never get such a great design like the Pentax K-3 from Nikon. And they dont even improve, just throw stuff at me that isnt the point, never fixing the real issues.





Derrel said:


> I have NEVER understood the idea of changing the ISO while the camera is at my eye,


 Even if it isnt at your eye, the ISO button is still in a location far away from any of your fingers if you hold it like usual (right hand at shutter etc, left hand supporting the weight of the camera).






Dao said:


> If Nikon build a camera that has everything people want, what are they going to do with the next version?


 Thats the logic behind ****ty products.

But why would people buy Nikon cameras if they dont get what they want ?

And thats btw the reason why I dont care about the D5200 etc releases too much. The biggest issues I had with these cameras arent addressed anyway, theres just some detail improvements - so why bother ?





amolitor said:


> I placed the focus point in the center, and then focus on whatever at the center.
> 
> This is important: Keep the shutter button halfway down (or equivalent, back button focus might work the same?) and wave the camera around, walk around, go nuts.
> 
> ...



Yes, thats how I currently focus on my D600, but its less reliable as with my D5100. I usually want to focus on the eyes and want it tack sharp there.


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## astroNikon (Nov 7, 2013)

then buy the Pentax K-3,
and Rant solved.


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## Solarflare (Nov 8, 2013)

Doesnt fit my glass and isnt full frame, duh !


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## Patrice (Nov 8, 2013)

You can please some of the people some of the time, but pleasing everyone all of the time is impossible. When selecting a product from an 'off the self' line up you must prioritize your needs followed by expectations and desires. The product is then selected from the available choices that ticks the most boxes. We all have to make that choice.

Totally custom products suited to our every individual needs and preferences are sometimes available but the price will not be at mass market levels. A product I am familiar with is furniture. For example a person can buy a fairly nice oak rocking chair from a mid scale shop for $400 to $500, however if someone wants me to build a chair customized to their body's physique, their physical abilities, their aesthetic tastes and their design preferences, which can all be done, the price will be from 5 to 10 times the price of the off the shelf product.

We are all allowed to rant to relieve stress, express frustration or effect an action. Ranting is good, but ranting about something where we can effect a change is better.


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## Tinstafl (Nov 28, 2013)

Wow, love reading these rants.  I would say read the manual and decide on the level you need.  For me I use most of the features at one point or the other.  I kept wanting more so I went from a D200 to d700 then to D4  and D800.  Love both of my current bodies. But still kept my old d7000 as a knock around take canoeing with an old lens.


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## astroNikon (Nov 28, 2013)

Yup,
the d800 has some simple features that I like but  I simply can't afford.  So my d7000 does well until I get a d600 which doesn't have those features either).  most noteably the separate thumb activated AF-ON  and AE-L/AF-L buttons.
Oh well.  with enough money you can get more features.


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## JDFlood (Nov 28, 2013)

Derrel said:


> I have NEVER understood the idea of changing the ISO while the camera is at my eye, and I am in the process of taking shots...this to me seems a lot like the complaint that one cannot watch YouTube videos on one's smartphone while also simultaneously texting or conducting a voice call...in other words, a sort of made-up complaint. Of course, I grew up shooting ASA 64 Kodachrome for 10 years whenever there was "color in the camera", and I grew up shooting Tri-X at ASA 400 for 20+ years whenever there was B&W in the camera, so I am used to ASA/ISO being a basic setting that is set ahead of time, and then one "deals with it" knowing what the film speed simply "is", or "needs to be". So, I just absolutely can NOT see the need to be able to futz around with my ISO while looking through the viewfinder. If it's raining, I put my jacket on before I go outside.



If you are using Aperture priority and the speed is going too low, you can increase the ISO. I shoot in the forest all the time and get light bound... Sometimes I have auto ISO set, sometimes not. I try and shoot the lowest ISO I can. Helps me. JD


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## robbins.photo (Nov 28, 2013)

Patrice said:


> You can please some of the people some of the time, but pleasing everyone all of the time is impossible.



Have you never heard of chocolate?  Lol


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## Zyr55 (Nov 28, 2013)

Made-to-order custom built camera...come on Nikon! Just do it already!


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## astroNikon (Nov 28, 2013)

Zyr55 said:


> Made-to-order custom built camera...come on Nikon! *"Just do it"* already!



That Nike
not Nikon
:lmao:


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## raventepes (Nov 28, 2013)

My only complaints in Nikon's camp is first, they don't have an FX camera that I want. There really isn't a happy medium between the D600/610 and the D800. Basically, they don't have anything resembling an offering that can be directly comparable to the Canon 5D Mk 3. Ideally, I'd want something with the D800's build quality, 51 point AF, 6-8 fps, and 24MP sensor. But to expand slightly on the AF points, regardless of which camera you buy, they're all too centralized. I want something that's edge to edge, and corner to corner. I actually shoot with the 1.3 crop on my D7100 quite often because it'll cover more or less the whole frame, which, even though it would drive me crazy with Canon's 61 point system, that's something that they more or less have right. 

If Nikon made that particular camera, many would flock. Its a huge gap. I, like many, really don't want or need 36 megapixels. 24 is good. Everything else about the D800 outside of the AF points, sensor and frame rate is about perfect. 

DX is just a joke though, at this point in time. There hasn't been a direct replacement for the D300s, so the D7100 has to suffice. I'm not going to knock it, by any stretch of the imagination...outside of its buffer, it's a solid camera. The build doesn't bother me as much as I thought it would. It's taken a bit of a beating since I got it and still no issues. Again though, I'll nit-pick the AF points, but while shooting in crop mode, it suffices when I need it. 

At this point in time, I'm of the frame of mind where if we don't get either a D400 or a comparable answer to the 5D Mk 3 within 2014, I think I'll just sell off my Nikon kit and get an Oly EM-1. At least then, I'll mostly have the right lenses (giving DX a death stare) without going 3rd party, and a lot of my beef with AF point placement would be taken care of.


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