# Mother telling me to forget photography



## Starskream666 (Aug 4, 2011)

So i'm 20 next month and my mum just had 'that talk' with me about how i need to think about a career now and pay rent, which is understandable. I was planning on doing a 2 year photography course at college, but she says i won't get a career from it so theres no point and i should just look for a full time ICT sort of job and forget about my hobbies. I feel like my life is over and im being forced into becoming a robot working for the man in something i don't want to do forever but i know this is what most people do and i shouldnt complain, just want peoples thoughts on what i should do?

I had a plan that i could do the course and get a part time job aswell ( the course is 4 days a week )


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## MissCream (Aug 4, 2011)

I was thinking today, what would I do if my son told me he wanted to go to school for photography.


I FULLY agree with your mother.


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## jake337 (Aug 4, 2011)

Starskream666 said:


> So i'm 20 next month and my mum just had 'that talk' with me about how i need to think about a career now and pay rent, which is understandable. I was planning on doing a 2 year photography course at college, but she says i won't get a career from it so theres no point and i should just look for a full time ICT sort of job and forget about my hobbies. I feel like my life is over and im being forced into becoming a robot working for the man in something i don't want to do forever but i know this is what most people do and i shouldnt complain, just want peoples thoughts on what i should do?
> 
> I had a plan that i could do the course and get a part time job aswell ( the course is 4 days a week )



Your over 18, DO WHATEVER THE FRICK YOU WANT!!!!


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## jake337 (Aug 4, 2011)

MissCream said:


> I was thinking today, what would I do if my son told me he wanted to go to school for photography.
> 
> 
> I FULLY agree with your mother.



sad


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## gsgary (Aug 4, 2011)

I would have been telling you to think about a career about 6 years ago


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## nickzou (Aug 4, 2011)

How long have you been actively into photography as a hobby? A few years? 10 years? If you're that far in, you might as well just bite the bullet and go for it. If it's only been a few months... it could be a phase and I can understand your mom's concern.


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## pkae1989 (Aug 4, 2011)

Do it on the side and find another job a long the way.


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## Destin (Aug 4, 2011)

Can you make a career in photography? Yes. Is it going to be easy? No. Would I waste my money on a college course for it? Not a chance. You can learn all you need to know online, from places like this, and a few photography blogs. 

Go to school for something besides photography. A business degree would be your best bet, if you want to make it as a full time photographer. While you're going to school, teach yourself photography on your own time. 



That's what I would do if I planned on trying to make it as a full time pro. Actually, this was my plan about a year ago. Now I'm working towards being an EMT or a paid Firefighter though, and just plan on running a photography business on the side.


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## Derrel (Aug 4, 2011)

Follow your dream. Have a man-to-mum talk with her, and make her understand that YOU are the one who has to live your life. Try and stay calm. This is a talk that ought to last 45 minutes to an hour. Try having it at a restaurant or other public place, so neither of you will feel like you can make a scene. Be firm in your convictions, but do not yell or raise your voice. Remain calm. Let her talk, and don't interrupt. Be polite, but firm. When she tells you what you "ought to do", say something like, "Yes Mum, I know that's how you feel about it, but I feel differently." The more polite you are, and the more calm, the harder and harder it will be for her to "argue" with you. If you start yelling and pushing back at her, it'll be easy for her to escalate the discussion right into uselessness; if you're very calm, it's **exceptionally hard** for people to "argue' with you. Good luck.


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## HomelessBoy (Aug 4, 2011)

Get a stable career first and take photography as a hobby. Who said freelance photography isn't photography? By then you can do whatever you want and buy more lens or whatever..


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## c.cloudwalker (Aug 4, 2011)

Few people make a decent living from photography today. Degree or not won't make any difference as most jobs are portfolio based rather than degree based. If you really want to give it a go, try and get yourself a job as an assistant and learn this way but it don't pay sh*t. At least it doesn't here in France so I doubt it does in the UK. Mine get minimum wage but, as they've told me themselves, at least they are having some fun and it's not some sh*tty job in a factory...


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## Robin Usagani (Aug 4, 2011)

Slightly different scenario... but my wife was not very supportive.  Buying DSLR was meant to take photos of the kids.  Wasnt meant for me to go crazy with camera gear and make money on the side.  But that has changed when she started seeing that I am actually pretty decent and actually have a chance of being successful in the biz(especially after I booked a couple of non low budget weddings).

But, there are a lot of people like me in your area.  I didnt go to school for photography.  All I am saying is, you have to proof something to earn respect/trust from your mom.  But it is always a good idea to have a back up plan.  If you love photography, you can always do it as a hobby that can potentially turn in to a career.  But if you show your mom that you really have potential, there is no doubt in my mind that she will be more supportive.


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## Robin Usagani (Aug 4, 2011)

HomelessBoy said:


> Get a stable career first and take photography as a hobby. Who said freelance photography isn't photography? By then you can do whatever you want and buy more lens or whatever..


  ----  Said the homeless boy.

Hahhaha.. I had to.


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## c.cloudwalker (Aug 4, 2011)

What's an ICT job, by the way?


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## Starskream666 (Aug 4, 2011)

Thanks for the replies, guys. This is so hard, money is tight and i need to help out but i don't want to waste my creative side anymore and just wake up one day retired sat in my garden thinking i didn't do **** with life because i didn't take a chance.


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## KmH (Aug 4, 2011)

There is no guarantee that *any* training you get today will result in a career for life, including ICT.

But today, there are far fewer opportunities for making photography a career. You can learn to do photography on your own, but it is much harder to learn the business skills needed to *make a living *doing photography, which basically means being self-employed.

So I would suggest you look at taking business classes if you hope for a career as a photographer. You'll need to know how to do marketing, promotion, salesmanship, client relations, cost control, accounting, planning, etc.

No doubt, there are and will continue to be people who make a living doing photography, but for many it will be more about motivation, being in the right place at the right time, and getting the right breaks.

Are you currently in school? Do you have a job?


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## Starskream666 (Aug 4, 2011)

*c.cloudwalker  What's an ICT job, by the way?*

By ICT job i mean with my qualifications/knowledge i'd probably just become an IT Technician or Data inputter. I was studying software development but couldn't take the sting of my soul being drained so found photography.


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## ghache (Aug 4, 2011)

I say do something else, something you will make money with and someting a little bit more stable. Somthing you like of course. Remember, photography is expensive and if you dont have the money to buy gear and stuff you wont make it any way and wont have food on the table either.


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## MissCream (Aug 4, 2011)

Starskream666 said:


> Thanks for the replies, guys. This is so hard, money is tight and i need to help out but i don't want to waste my creative side anymore and just wake up one day retired sat in my garden thinking i didn't do **** with life because i didn't take a chance.



Or you could be sitting in someone else's garden eating their beans because you don't have enough money for food because you followed your dream. Take a business class first so at least if you do follow your nose, ugh I mean dream, then you will know how to actually run your business. Then take a photography class if your still interested.  

It's is INCREDIBLY hard to make a living by just being a photographer and school or no school the client isn't going to care (most of them anyway) as long as your pictures are good. I just think photography school is a waste of money. Sincerely sorry if I offend anyone.


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## Starskream666 (Aug 4, 2011)

The school isn't going to cost me anything though, this is basically the last year that i could get it for free.


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## RichardsTPF (Aug 4, 2011)

I would go to college for a degree such as engineer or business. You mom thinks that you are an adult and should support the family. There is nothing wrong. I am totally agree with that. You can work and study, make some money for your education. A college degree will give you a good enough job to support your hobby. Then, you can take whatever class you want, even a double major on photography.
In college you will find a lot of fun in student clubs (photography or others). And you will have lots of chance to practice your photography skill. BTW, what is ICT job?


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## red__zed (Aug 4, 2011)

If photography doesn't pay the bills, get a job that does. Shoot the photos you want in your free time. You'll notice even most pros have or had jobs for a long time.


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## jake337 (Aug 4, 2011)

Starskream666 said:


> *c.cloudwalker What's an ICT job, by the way?*
> 
> By ICT job i mean with my qualifications/knowledge i'd probably just become an IT Technician or Data inputter. I was studying software development but couldn't take the sting of my soul being drained so found photography.



I would suggest going for IT job first with a minor in graphics design and business.  You could even get a job as a retoucher/finisher while you get better at the photography end of the deal.

But seriously its up to you to figure out what you want to do.  Live in a trash can if ya want!


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## jake337 (Aug 4, 2011)

Starskream666 said:


> The school isn't going to cost me anything though, this is basically the last year that i could get it for free.



FOR FREE!!!! You better take advantage of that.  There's people that would kill for that.


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## 480sparky (Aug 4, 2011)

Mamas, don't let your babies grow up to be photogs
 Don't let 'em choose Nikons and Canons as much
 Make 'em be doctors and lawyers and such

 Mamas, don't let your babies grow up to be photogs
 They'll never be happy with the gear that they own
 Even with they're out shooting alone.

Photogs ain't easy to love and holding them's hard
 They'd rather buy filters and an 8g memory card
 And a second battery for that new grip.


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## c.cloudwalker (Aug 4, 2011)

I take it UK schools are free like they are in France but do you have a camera and lenses or, are those free too?

If you still have a go at free school, take advantage of it but try and do it in something that interests you. Besides photo that is   But then, if it's like here, 2 years of school will not get you any more than minimum wage so after your school, do whatever you want.

Just one way of looking at it.


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## gsgary (Aug 4, 2011)

Is it the City and Guilds course ? if so you won't learn a lot


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## Gainsboro (Aug 4, 2011)

If you want your parents to let you follow your dream.... research it, do a presentation or a proposal, just as if you were a business person trying to get exec's to agree with a new idea. Give them stats and options...it's all on the net for all to find! Believe me, this skill will come in handy when you start your career anyway. Parents love it when their fears are addressed and they can see substantial thought and planning. ...Just a thought!


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## Starskream666 (Aug 4, 2011)

gsgary said:


> Is it the City and Guilds course ? if so you won't learn a lot


I don't know what that is so probably not


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## Bend The Light (Aug 4, 2011)

I would go to uni, or something like that. Have a great time, in Leeds, or Sheffield, or wherever. Great cities, great universities. Then, in the evenings when you're not out having a great time with your uni mates, do a few short courses at college. Maybe even the universities have photography groups, and courses you can tag along to?
Then, join a camera club, stick around on here, and learn all you can from people that do this all the time.

If your uni course is business, or something technical, it will help you in establishing yourself in a photographic business later on. But you have to make the decision...but don't dismiss your mum's ideas just because they are your mum's ideas. She may actually be right.


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## niccas9 (Aug 4, 2011)

Go for it! Even though money is tight and you have financial obligations, they will only grow with time.  When I was your age I found out I was going to be a dad, so that kind of limited my decisions.  You should go for it and learn what you can.  Even if this doesn't pan out and become a full-fledged career at least you can say that you went for it.  You can find some odd and end jobs to get you through for a couple of years.


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## Trever1t (Aug 4, 2011)

while the odds of actually making a profitable career from art or photography in general is slim I can guarantee that if you don't you will always wonder "what if"

As a young man I was accepted to Parsons, a leading school of design, but my Father hated the idea and that was that. 

You are young and like a river life changes course many times. Follow your heart but keep your head.


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## Gaerek (Aug 4, 2011)

Trying to make a living as a photographer in this economy in a market already saturated with professional and weekend warrior photographers? I understand, money isn't everything. But going to school for photography won't make you anymore money than going it alone.

My advice? Go to school for almost anything but photography, save up a bit to buy yourself a good used DSLR, and make it a hobby. If you decide that you still want to go pro, go for it! But only after you've gotten yourself a backup plan (also know as a degree in something that can get you a job).


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## Starskream666 (Aug 4, 2011)

I have a D80 and have submitted a few photos here already.
The reason i wanted to go to college to do it was to learn everything about it with all the basics, and knowing how to use studio lighting and stuff like that.


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## Bend The Light (Aug 4, 2011)

Starskream666 said:


> I have a D80 and have submitted a few photos here already.
> The reason i wanted to go to college to do it was to learn everything about it with all the basics, and knowing how to use studio lighting and stuff like that.



Seriously, there are so many people on here that can help you with that, or direct you to a link, or to google something. Everything you need to know is here, or on the net.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Aug 4, 2011)

You've mentioned several times about not wanting to waste your "creative" side. How many art classes have you taken? What other "creative" activities interest you? How has your creative talent been nurtured?


No matter what career path you take, even if it does not flex your creative muscles, you always can have hobbies to satisfy your creativity. Getting a job, or living off your own creativity is difficult. To compete with other successful artist, no matter what field, you pretty much have to be the best of the best to make a decent living. As others have said, you need to learn as much about business, marketing, and accounting as you can. Trust me.

Even if you go the graphic design route, you will be faced with a rude awakening, that through the beginning years of your career, you won't be flexing your creativity. You will be doing grunt work, and the stuff others tell you to do. Again, until you prove yourself to be top of the class, you will be a lacky, like any other job. 


I am not trying to disuade you from following your dream. I want you to think realistically. How talented are you? Who are you using as a gauge?
If you think you have the right stuff, go for it. Just remember it will take time before you really come into your own, and can really reap the rewards.


My parents didn't want me to major in Jewelery/Metals. They feared I would never make a living. Honestly, neither of us knew what the work field was like. They supported me though. 23 years ago I started my first bench jewelers job (lacky). I made $5 an hour. My second job, $5.50/hr. Third job $8.50/hr. Fourth job $11/hr. I hated what I did. It was mostly jewelery repair, and nothing creative. But over the years my practical skills grew, and my education proved beneficial. I was better than nearly all the benchworkers around. I had applicable traditional skills these other people didn't have. Word got around, that jobs other jewelers wouldn't touch, I could do. I became a commodity. Sooo... 21 years after leaving school, I finally started my own business. I finally am making a very comfortable living. I finally love what I do again, and am still getting better with every job I do. You never stop learning.

What's missing from my education is real business skills, and everything associated with it. Granted, I know the basic business concepts, and can figure out what I need to do. The business side isn't hard, but it can be frustrating. There is more to it than I thought. So, my advice to you is really to at least get some business understanding under your belt WHILE you focus on photography.

I also highly reccomend studying art. While so many people will tell you that you can learn photography on your own, they do not mention studying art. Doing so will put yourself head and shoulders above all the other facebook photographers that have other jobs, bought a camera and decided to start a business, because photography is easy, and they have been overcome by the "passions".

Good luck to you whatever path you take. But dont EVER think that if you end up with a boring desk job, that you can't still create. Jobs support hobbies. Hobbies bring happiness to your life. Sometimes your hobby can become your job.


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## pgriz (Aug 4, 2011)

When you're young, nothing is impossible, and the amount of energy you can throw at any activity is very impressive. However, business requires prioritization, making hard choices, NOT doing what you want to do but what you HAVE to do. Pretty much all trades (photography or carpentry, or catering, or writing) spend a lot of time (maybe more than 50% of the working time) marketing, seeing prospects, getting told no, seeing more prospects... about 10-20% of the time is production work, while the rest is record-keeping, accounting, customer management, etc. And in the 10-20% of the time tht you're doing your trade, you usually will be doing what the paying customer wants done, not necessarily what you want to do. It's my observation that very few young people start businesses that are ultimately successful - and that is just because there are a lot of life skills that are necessary to make a business function. Those life skill take time to acquire.

edit:  Dang it, David - you type faster than I do!  And very good advice as well, I might add...


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## Bitter Jeweler (Aug 4, 2011)

pgriz said:


> However, business requires prioritization, making hard choices, *NOT doing what you want to do but what you HAVE to do*.



It kills me!


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## Overread (Aug 4, 2011)

Bend The Light said:


> Seriously, there are so many people on here that can help you with that, or direct you to a link, or to google something. Everything you need to know is here, or on the net.



Same for most subjects - heck almost everything barring some of the most cutting edge advanced sciences are right there in books to be read. One can get a grounding in theory in almost anything if one has the means and (most importantly the will) to research the topic.
The key is having the will and the motivation to be prepared to do that research and to self learn; but far far more importantly (and far harder to plan) is to maintain that enthusiasm and on that score only you can best guess if you'll maintain that. 



As for if you should or shouldn't do it I look at it like this -- in life everyone wants to tell you which way to go -- however no matter if you follow their advice or follow your own the result is the same - you have to live that life. Thus I'd say go for what you feel is going to bring you the feeling of the most worth in life whilst also supporting the lifestyle and family that you have/might have/hope to have.
Good solid vocational courses are always a good option as they give a good rounded skill that is oft able to be used; however even they do not give certainty of employment. Furthermore there is no point slaving every day of ones life to live till retirement because when you get there you'll be burnt out too far to enjoy it.


Can you make photography work? Who knows - you'll have to put in the research to find out if you can; business models (not just working for yourself, you can always work within an organisation/company); costs; finances; key skills in the area of interest (be that photography, building or computing). 


In the end you've got to make this choice yourself; all you can take from others is not the answer, but their reasoning behind their answers. Add those reasons together along with your own, keep your mind open and evaluate if you can or cannot make this work. 


As a final reminder - you've got to live your life - might as well aim to make it a fun one


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## pgriz (Aug 4, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> It kills me!



Yeah, but that's how we all learn discipline.  The stick-to-it-ness that fights the aw-crap-I-wanna-give-up-edness...


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## jgooz (Aug 4, 2011)

ya, not sure i can really add anything that hasnt been said. except the one thing i've heard more than anything over the years is that you don't need to know photography to run a photography business. but you do need to know business to succeed in one. my personal thought, if you are still living at home and your twenty and unemployed i'd say your quite lucky your parents havent thrown you out yet. they must love you dearly. (which is great!) but if my kid was 20 and still at home, it's because she's still in school or working and wants to save money to pursue other goals. she has dreams and aspirations, just like you, and she's incredibly creative, everyday i encourage them to tap into that creativity, but she also realizes nothing is free. just my 2 cents


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## skieur (Aug 4, 2011)

Mmm!  What a contrast!  My mother got me into photography at the age of 11.  My home has a 90 foot balcony overlooking a magnificent lake view in almost 180 degrees with a 150 foot waterfront.  

I have not exactly been suffering poverty resulting from my choice of a multi-media career.

skieur


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## table1349 (Aug 4, 2011)

If I were in your shoes I would ask her why she did such a poor job as a parent while raising you to not help you learn and develop the life skills to do or be anything you choose.  Everyone has certain natural talents.  Me, I am a believer in nurture not nature.  Unless you have a particular physical or metal disability that precludes your ability to perform a particular task or set of tasks, you can be anything you choose.  It take, dedication, education, practice and good ole fashion hard work to achieve any goal in life.  If you want it bad enough you can accomplish it.  Problem most people have is not knowing how much they really want something.


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## rlemert (Aug 4, 2011)

I'm sure there are professional photographers in your area. Go out and talk to them. If you can afford it, invite them to your local Starbucks for a cup and a snack (your treat). Then, once you've got them there, make them earn your generosity! Find out how they got where they are today. Did they go to photography school like you want to do, or did they do a business program like many here have suggested? Or did they do an apprenticeship with another established photographer?  Do they make a good living at what they are doing, or are they barely getting by? What is it costing them to stay in business? What are the most important characteristics you need in order to be successful? What other types of jobs might give you the same satisfaction you think you'll get as a free-lance photographer? Would they do it again? Why?

  You are doing some of this here, but it's very hit-or-miss. Doing so locally will allow you dig deeper, and allow the people you talk to to get to know you so they can tailor their answers to your background. They might even be willing to look at some of your work and tell you whether or not you have a chance.

  Only after you've completed this exercise will you have the understanding of what you're trying to accomplish to determine if it's worth it to you. And as an added benefit, if you do decide to continue down this road you'll have the data you'll need to convince your mom that your choice is valid.

  (Personally, I'd go with the people that are suggesting you do something like a business degree while developing your photography on the side - through school clubs and the like.)

  (And as a semi-unrelated side note - working for 'the man' or in a non-artistic field doesn't necessarily equate with not being creative. I'm an engineer, and my job requires me to be creative every day. I'm not doing anything artistic, but it's just as creative as if I was.)


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## NikonME (Aug 4, 2011)

In the end, the choice is yours. Right now you need to get a job and help the family out if you are living under mom's roof.

What you do with your life after you move out is your choice, but it's hard choose a career with no planning.


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## PatrickCheung (Aug 4, 2011)

Being 18, I had to make a decision of what I wanted to study in my next 4-5 years in University this year.  I've always wanted to make it as a photojournalist, travel the world, see beautiful things, capture memories, tell stories.  But never once have I thought of going to university/college for photography.  Everything you need to learn is already available to you.  If not from the internet then from self learning through shooting.  I've never once taken a course to learn photography (though I did take one in highschool as an easy credit) because the info and experience is already there for me.  In college course you learn a little, meet a few people, that's great and all but you can do that outside of a school too.  

I'm going into Architecture next year because it's a practical way I can assert my creativity... and it's something that photography can help me in.  But that doesn't mean I've given up on my dream to be a photographer.  I still take on the odd job on the side, enter (and sometimes win... $1000 grand prize from nation wide contest... sorry just had to throw that in there) photo contests and stuff.  Making photography your life doesn't mean you'll become a photographer, it doesn't even mean that you'll be better.  Maybe it's best to find a way to incorporate your dream into a stable future!


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## Ryan L (Aug 4, 2011)

Why don't you follow another career path in something similar, media, journalism, in most media related fields you will take some of the same courses. You could still have some of the same material in another degree field, make your income more stable in the process, mom happy, still enjoy your photography, and have income on the side of your career. I am not saying to do it either way, that's up to you. It wont be an easy field if you work for yourself, you have to save for your own retirement, provide your own health care, balance the business end, etc. Talk to a academic counselor and see what you come up with.


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## mickmac (Aug 4, 2011)

Poor baby. Get a bloody job! Even a part time one and start paying your way. Do the course if you want to, but get a job. Work every night if you have to. If it really is your dream then nothing will stop you.


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## vtf (Aug 4, 2011)

Good Luck.


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## pgriz (Aug 4, 2011)

One fact of modern life that comes up is that people generally change their careers every 5-7 years.  It used to be (cue in the music please) that a job was pretty much for life - not true any more.  Unless you are in a profession (lawyer, doctor, engineer), the chances are that you will find yourself adapting to many changes.  Formal training (university degree or techical college) is just the entry ticket, the real learning happens on the job, and there is much about "work" that is not taught in any formal school.   So whatever you choose now - you're going to be changing again soon enough.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Aug 4, 2011)

These people who change every 5-7...why is it? Poor choices? Boredom? Unhappiness? Disillusionment?


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## Kerbouchard (Aug 4, 2011)

One question...are you currently living with your Mom or is she supporting you?

Other posts have mentioned that you are an adult now and should make your own choices.  I agree with that.  On the other hand, if your Mom is still supporting you, while you may be an adult, you haven't grown up yet.  Your decisions have consequences.  Some positive, some negative.  But you should bare the full consequences of those decisions.

If you are supporting yourself(which it doesn't sound like), then you should make your own decisions.  If you are incapable of supporting yourself, you should listen to the people who actually are supporting you.

Life isn't about your dreams.  Life is about reality.  It's up to you to make that dream into a reality, and, IMO, nobody has the right to chase a dream on somebody else's dollar.


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## Ryan L (Aug 4, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> These people who change every 5-7...why is it? Poor choices? Boredom? Unhappiness? Disillusionment?



I'd like to know where those statistics came from. Most people I know stay in a career field. I have been in communications for 14 years...and I am 32. So my entire adult career has been in one field.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Aug 4, 2011)

Ryan L said:


> Bitter Jeweler said:
> 
> 
> > These people who change every 5-7...why is it? Poor choices? Boredom? Unhappiness? Disillusionment?
> ...


Same here. Except i has more years.


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## Fantastic4 (Aug 4, 2011)

You will never get over photography.... not now, not 30 years from now and not even 60 years.  My advise from California.... go to college, get a Master's or PHD in a math or science field and get employed with good pay.  You should then make enough to buy all the high end photo equipment you ever want and travel to all the exotic photo locations of the world once or twice a year. You shall be able to support a family, drive a German import and spend every other weekend on a photography adventure.  You will always carry your D3, flash unit, tripod/monopod and about 3 other lens with you just about where ever you go.

Now if you choose the photography field and skip the PHD.... focus on weddings, that is your bread and butter and get good really really fast.  You will make enough to get by, but let me warn you when you go on vacation you won't be taking your Nikon D3 and accessories, you will have your pocket Lumex or Canon S95 and smile knowing your not carrying 20 lbs of equipment on your shoulder.  

Either way you won't ever stop taking pictures.... Good luck and choose wisely.


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## pgriz (Aug 4, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> These people who change every 5-7...why is it? Poor choices? Boredom? Unhappiness? Disillusionment?



Life changes - new love, company going bankrupt or downsizing, bad personal situation needing a big move, an industry collapsing, a mid-life crisis, an offer you can't refuse, etc. etc. Sometimes people discover that what they really thought they wanted - they didn't. Life is linear for some, a complete random walk for others. Throw in an unexpected pregnancy, or a death of a close family member, or an accident that hits close to home, or a diagnosis of a potentially deadly illness - all end up forcing a re-examination of where one is, where one is going. I've had a number of major changes in my life: prospective engineer, then MIS manager, then QA, Software design and support, Project management, customer service & business development, consulting, manufacturing operation, Contracting... Many of my colleagues in those companies/industries went through similar changes - some staying in their field, others went completely into different directions. The only security of employment seems to be a portable skill set and a flexible attitude. Beyond that, we can have the illusion of control over our life, but it doesn't take much to force a change.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Aug 4, 2011)

Makes sense. I just havent seen it in any of my friends or family. Now, 11 years ago, I picked up and moved to Long Beach, CA, for :heart:, and was a waiter for a year. Then we moved back to Ohio, and I was back in my career.  But I wouldn't call that a career change. Really.


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## pgriz (Aug 5, 2011)

Well, my purpose in posting was to tell the OP not to be too afraid of starting something - life is long and you can change many times.  But you do have to make a commitment and then try to make it work.  If it doesn't, then make a change.  I have observed the sister of a good friend who I've known for many years, be stuck because she "doesn't want to make a mistake and do something she'll regret later".  As a result, she never (fully) committed to a career or a relationship, always being tentative and in the end nothing she "tries" really works.  She's over 45 now, and still can't decide what she wants to do.  There's a life lesson there.


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## Forkie (Aug 5, 2011)

Get on the photography course and get a part time bar job in the evening and weekends to pay your way.  Mothers always say stuff like that (I was lucky, mine didn't, yay!).  If you know what career you want, do a course that teaches you that career.  If you want to be a lawyer, go to law school.  If you want to be a photographer, go to art college.


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## PJL (Aug 5, 2011)

One of the security guards at my office is a retired NYC detective.

His undergraduate degree was in photography. Go figure.



pgriz said:


> One fact of modern life that comes up is that people generally change their careers every 5-7 years. It used to be (cue in the music please) that a job was pretty much for life - not true any more. Unless you are in a profession (lawyer, doctor, engineer), the chances are that you will find yourself adapting to many changes. Formal training (university degree or techical college) is just the entry ticket, the real learning happens on the job, and there is much about "work" that is not taught in any formal school. So whatever you choose now - you're going to be changing again soon enough.



I'm a lawyer.  I suppose it's good enough until I figure out what I really want to do.


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## tron (Aug 5, 2011)

A lot of times a hobby is something difficult to make a career out of.  I like working on cars, would I become a mechanic?  **** no.  Day after day of shooting would get robotic for me too, maybe not for you.  Something to think about.

Oh and inb4 "went into photography and now im broke" thread


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## vtf (Aug 5, 2011)

I see many people changing companies every 5 to 7 years, not careers because imo 5-7 years is just starting a career path. I've been in Retail Management for 28 years and now pursuing a career in Studio Art/History with maybe Management/Directorship involvement. That's a career change and is not as simple as just switching jobs. I've lost 2 jobs in the last 5 years, first was 20 years long and second was 4 years. To me 5-7 years in a field then bouncing to another is a person who doesn't know what they like.
I intend to keep my new career to my death. In true reality once you start on a path and life starts to happen, few have the opportunity I have right now.


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## c.cloudwalker (Aug 5, 2011)

PJL said:


> One of the security guards at my office is a retired NYC detective.
> 
> His undergraduate degree was in photography. Go figure.




I can see a very good relationship between the two. Maybe it takes 30 some years of photography to see it but I'll let you think about it...


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## behanana (Aug 5, 2011)

I'm going to say this with all the kindness I can muster...YOUR 20 Get an F-ing job! You also need to realize that everyone works for "the man", that's because "the man" is not a person, it's the dollar, yen, euro, pound, or whatever other currency you feel like going with. You require currency to survive, thus you work for it and are tied to it. This holds true if you own your own business or work for some international corporation, you will always answer to someone. So get off your a$$ and do something with your life! Take the plunge if that's what you feel you need to do.


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## tron (Aug 5, 2011)

behanana said:


> I'm going to say this with all the kindness I can muster...YOUR 20 Get an F-ing job! You also need to realize that everyone works for "the man", that's because "the man" is not a person, it's the dollar, yen, euro, pound, or whatever other currency you feel like going with. You require currency to survive, thus you work for it and are tied to it. This holds true if you own your own business or work for some international corporation, you will always answer to someone. So get off your a$$ and do something with your life! Take the plunge if that's what you feel you need to do.









would read again


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## shortpants (Aug 5, 2011)

My advice is to find a balance. Don't forget about photography completely, but I would also pursue something else at the same time. 

I kind of wish my parents pushed me to study something else besides art. First I took a year off after high school and just worked at my father's pizza shop. Glamorous, I know. I started with graphic design, just at community college so it didn't break the bank. Then I went to a 2 year photography school and put myself into major debt. When all was said and done, I couldn't even think about going into business, I had NO money. I waited tables 60 hours a week making sh!t, and never had time to shoot. Then I got married and had a baby, and have been a stay at home mom since. I'm just now able to start focusing on photography again, and I'm still nowhere near ready to make any money from it. Luckily I don't need to and it can be a hobby for now. Sometimes I wish I went to medical school instead, or at the least had a bachelors for SOMETHING. 

So my suggestion would be to take core classes at a local college, and also a few photography/art classes on the side. I think both would benefit you in the long run and you never know what else you might become interested in along the way. I went from wanting to have a career in art, to wanting to be a lactation consultant, so there you go 

oh and p.s. get a job!


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## Stradawhovious (Aug 5, 2011)

(Typing this without having read all of the responses, sorry. I can only hope this advice has been given 100 times in this thread, and even so, in my ever so humble opinion, it bears repeating.)

Don't bother starting a photography business, or any other business for that matter without knowing how to run a business. If you can get some free education, get it. You would be a fool to pass up that opportunity, but try and get the education in something that actually has some practical application. A general Business degree for example....... if you have one of those and start a photography business, you will be armed with a basic knowledge of the "how to keep it running" end of the business, and if/when the full time photography business collapses you have an education to fall back on that will get a foot in the door in ANY industry.

If you want to study photography, do it as a minor.  Nobody will ask to see your photography degree when they enter your studio.  Your work will serve as your proof of education.


my .02


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## Dagwood56 (Aug 5, 2011)

Have you ever heard the phrase "starving artisit" ? Get a job, get an education that will get you some place in life and pursue photography as a hobby for now. As someone else said, take it as one of your college minors. You will be honeing your photography skills as well as getting an education that will set you up in the "real" world.


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## gsgary (Aug 5, 2011)

Starskream666 said:


> I have a D80 and have submitted a few photos here already.
> The reason i wanted to go to college to do it was to learn everything about it with all the basics, and knowing how to use studio lighting and stuff like that.



Most people of your age that want to make it big in photography are already assisting a top photographer


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## valbjorndesign (Aug 5, 2011)

Well photography is a calling isnt it. But get a job and go for it on the side, thats what i did, 
today i have a great DSLR, and i am having a blast building up my portfolio..

valbjorndesign Photo


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## Brinr (Aug 5, 2011)

funny thread, Dood you already got lots of stuff on your mind and what not but I was in the exact same situation like 4 years ago when i started school. I made several extrapolations:

1 the only jobs you can get with an art degree with emphasis in photo suck... a lot.

2 it's a fun degree but again you can't get a job

3 you still can't get a job with an art degree

4 jobs and $ make life a lot easier.

Here's what I did man, I don't know you financial situation all that well but if you can hang on for like 5 or 6 years of school get the photo degree (the two year would be really good since it's short). Then stay in school and pursue something that will help you with photo and the real world... say business, information systems, entrepreneur stuff, or maybe computer science that way you're marketable to the world and you can use it in your goofy lil photo business along the way. I got my photo degree this spring and I'll only be in school another year or maybe two and I'll have two degrees and a minor, plus I can do my goofy lil photo business along the way to help pay for... well equipment... but hey you could spend it on rent and food and all that other non-important stuff. Anyway, you'll be fine, you're 20 man make a big boy decision and always be flexible


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## AgentDrex (Aug 5, 2011)

Be a slave to someone else and keep photography as a hobby to start with.  Then later, you can be a slave to your dreams.  Use the time being a slave to others to hone your technique.  Perhaps you end up working at an office that needs some promotional photos done.  You get a chance to show off your knowledge and if you're good enough, perhaps your name will become slung around and you'll find yourself getting paid for shoots.  Perhaps at one point you will get so many paying photography jobs, that you can start living off of it.  I know what's in your heart and how it is screaming to get out.  Tell it to have patience.  I hope your mother was telling you along the same thing, and not just "give up/forget photography".  That is lame advice.  If you have a passion for it, those that love you should find it in their hearts to understand and come to terms with it.  But seriously.  Be a slave to someone else while you grow your passion.

Your other option is to become a starving artist.  Steal photo equipment, take photos, beg for food, do odd jobs here and there.  You get to travel wherever you want pretty much.  No rent, no bills.  And perhaps, if you get really good over the course of your life, your photos will become sought after pieces of art and will go for millions...after you die...


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## Overread (Aug 5, 2011)

gsgary said:


> Starskream666 said:
> 
> 
> > I have a D80 and have submitted a few photos here already.
> ...



Aye, but its never too late to start - heck I know a guy who took up plumbing well past his 50s and manages to turn a very good local trade now. It is however a lot easier to start when you are younger -some will get the advantage and start earlier and some take longer to find their way - trick is to follow it when you realise it. 



AgentDrex said:


> Be a slave to someone else and keep photography as a hobby to start with.  Then later, you can be a slave to your dreams.



If your aim is to follow your dreams then - don't put it off to tomorrow, because tomorrow will never actually come. Instead follow your dream from the start - however recognise that part of following that dream might well be time spent flipping burgers or stacking shelves to tide you over - to earn money to continue following the dream. 

The difference is in the wording and the mindset - if you always intend to follow the dream tomorrow then its very easy to keep waiting for tomorrow to appear - and then bam 50 years passes and tomorrow jumps past you.


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## imagemaker46 (Aug 5, 2011)

You can do whatever you want if you put your mind to it. However if any of my 3 boys had of said they wanted to follow in my footsteps as a photographer I would have been thrilled and told them to find a career that they will be able to live on. Photography in all areas is sadly dying, it used to be that a kid that showed some skill could latch on at one of the local news papers, that has all but gone now.  They just overwork the staff guys they have left, until they quit and then they just use  experienced freelancers to fill the spots.  It is so difficult these days.  I would take courses, learn photography and just enjoy it.  Some where down the road the opportunity to take a shot at doing it full time may work out.


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## Compaq (Aug 5, 2011)

gsgary said:


> I would have been telling you to think about a career about 6 years ago



I agree. I don't want to sound rude, but you've had your entire life to consider a career. You've taken courses at school, anything you found interesting? Unless you *really *burn for photography, you should find something else - that is my advice. Don't settle on your hobby unless you know in your heart this is what you want to do. You can always have photography as a hobby, but you can't have your job as a hobby. The important thing is to find something you'd be interested in doing first, salary second.. Consider where you might get work. 

I'd be careful trying to have my hobby as my only job. That's my personal opinion. Do you have any form of education at this point? 

Why don't people reflect over their lives? Dig deep and find out what you want to do.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Aug 5, 2011)

Wish I'd have listened to my parents back in the day


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## skieur (Aug 16, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> These people who change every 5-7...why is it? Poor choices? Boredom? Unhappiness? Disillusionment?



No, it is like riding a wave! At one point television production was big and I was making a lot of money from that area: producing, directing, shooting, script writing, etc. Then computer animation was popular with companies and organizations and I got into that, profitably. Public relations became important later aind I benefitted from that trend as well. Multi-language media became popular and that was fine too, because I could work in several languages.

In terms of learning: I had a background in photography, learned audio and television production, multi-media productions and presentations, and I picked up several languages and writing skills at university, so I went with the flow so-to-speak in terms of the trends and as a result had fun as well as made money.

skieur


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## Ballistics (Aug 16, 2011)

Go to school for an in demand field and take photography as your electives. That's what I am doing.


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## Forkie (Aug 17, 2011)

Compaq said:


> ...I don't want to sound rude, but you've had your entire life to consider a career...
> 
> Why don't people reflect over their lives?...



I think that's a little harsh - he's only 18.  My mother decided she wanted to be a nurse when she was 35, after after about 15 years of accounting.  

My whole life, I wanted to be a pilot in the Air Force.  My dad was in the Force, so were both my grandfathers, so the background was there.  Then when I was 16, I discovered beer, girls and the drums, so I went to Music college.  After that, I found that getting a paid job as a drummer was nigh-on impossible, so did various admin and customer service jobs for 10 years.  During that time, I turned 24 and remembered I wanted to be a pilot, looked into it and found I was too old to join the Air Force.  That was the end of that.

I'm now 28 and found my photography job 18 months ago and at the moment, I love it and hope it's the first rung of the ladder to better, more creative photography jobs, maybe even my own business one day. But who knows, in 5 years time, I might come across something else that catches my interest and decide to do that instead, or decide that actually, I'd like to keep photography as a separate hobby to my work.  

There is no deadline for deciding what you want to do and there is no rule about how long you should do it for.  It is not irresponsible not to have decided yet and people should be free and flexible, particularly with looming end of the financial stability of the universe, to try different things and build up different skills so you can adapt to whatever your working life may (or may not) bring.


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## Village Idiot (Aug 17, 2011)

Starskream666 said:


> So i'm 20 next month and my mum just had 'that talk' with me about how i need to think about a career now and pay rent, which is understandable. I was planning on doing a 2 year photography course at college, but she says i won't get a career from it so theres no point and i should just look for a full time ICT sort of job and forget about my hobbies. I feel like my life is over and im being forced into becoming a robot working for the man in something i don't want to do forever but i know this is what most people do and i shouldnt complain, just want peoples thoughts on what i should do?
> 
> I had a plan that i could do the course and get a part time job aswell ( the course is 4 days a week )



Tea bag the *****!!!

I'll go back to reading the rest of the thread now...


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## Compaq (Aug 17, 2011)

The truth sometimes is hard to hear. That is just my personal opinion, of course, what I wrote, and I'm sticking with it. I'm 20 years old now. Perhaps we do things differently in Norway than in the states or any other part of the world, but staying home working to earn money and find out what you want to do, that's just being lazy IMO. I probably wanted to be a pro football player when I was little, perhaps even until I turned 12 or something. Our mind's changing, and many people want a change of scenery after many years in the same job.

Now, I don't know about the OP, or you or any others, but I've always taken school seriously. It may be unfair, but I really can't stand those people who say "school is pointless, I don't need trigonometry, who cares about history" and skips class after class. I get angry and irritated when I think of them, honest! I've done my best in school, chosen those subjects I think I will enjoy and those I will need later when I start my education. In our equivalent to high school, I chose maths, chemistry and physics. Guess what, I found that chemistry really was something I enjoyed doing and now I'm just starting my second year of my bachelor's degree in chemistry, planning to go on to my master's in two years, maybe even further - only time will tell.

I'll claim that I, and everyone else, have had the possibility to think and reflect over what one is interested in since 8th grade and on up to (Norwegian standards) 13th grade (third year high school). I chose to start directly on my education, and I'm really glad I did. Six years I've thought about what I wanted to do, and _natural sciences _popped up each and every time. I ended with chemistry.

The heart of it, I believe, is that most people are *not* reflecting over their lives. What's their purpose, what are their dreams (not new hobbies). You must go deep! I know what I want in my life, age 20. I dare say that's better (assuming of course it's good to know what one want) than most. I have a couple of hobbies I enjoy, photography seems to be manifesting nicely. I also enjoy traditional wet shaving, hiking and living in the nature, fishing and all that stuff. There's only one thing I don't have in life I wish I had.

That's my opinion, anyway...


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## Ballistics (Aug 17, 2011)

Forkie said:


> Compaq said:
> 
> 
> > ...I don't want to sound rude, but you've had your entire life to consider a career...
> ...



He's 20.


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## spinningbarefoot (Aug 17, 2011)

Are you good, and do you truly enjoy photography? Do you see yourself doing it for a living? Go ahead!

-foto~phreak~4eva-


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## Forkie (Aug 17, 2011)

Ballistics said:


> Forkie said:
> 
> 
> > Compaq said:
> ...



Ah ok.  My point still stands.


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## Nickhadad (Nov 30, 2011)

If you have serious talent go for it. If you want something bad enough you'll make something out of it. Whether you're serious enough and have the resilience to withstand such a harsh industry is a whole different animal. The main reason for going to art school is to make connections, get opinions from aspiring artists and teachers, and gain motivation. If you stray off into a different field, yes you can pursue photography as a hobby but it's going to be hard to find time to really sit down and work on it to make it your main focus. In school your main focus would be photography making it hard to slip off that path. I agree with the others though in having a backbone. Don't just go all out and then when **** hits the fan have no income. Remember art school is expensive and the years following its completion are going to be working to pay off your debts.


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## Corto (Nov 30, 2011)

Join the military, save up your money. Then do whatever you want.

Everything has a price. How you decide to pay for it is up to you and no one else.


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## MLeeK (Nov 30, 2011)

More resurrecting long dead posts?


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## thereyougo! (Nov 30, 2011)

I'm with those that say start earning some money. Put plenty aside so you can get the best start in the future with good equipment. My career isn't photography but it is something that took me 20 years to turn into a career that used to be a hobby. Having a real life before living the dream can help you live the dream in a more realistic and focused way.


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## Postman158 (Nov 30, 2011)

Starskream666 said:


> Thanks for the replies, guys. This is so hard, money is tight and i need to help out but i don't want to waste my creative side anymore and just wake up one day retired sat in my garden thinking i didn't do **** with life because i didn't take a chance.



If money is tight, and you plan on going to college anyways, do like others have said; get a degree in business or graphic design or something, and learn photography on the side. I have my degree in Fire Science, and learned everything I know about photography from numerous self bought books, the photo forum, and just talking to local photographers. You'd be better off having a degree in something rather than a certificate from a photography trade school you know? You can get an AA/AS degree in the same amount of time as that 2 year photography school. The photography is just the icing on the cake, if you're passionate enough about photography, you'll make it work on top of your degree.


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## GrantH (Nov 30, 2011)

Get any sort of job that interests you. I can tell you by experience, college isn't always the answer. When I entered college in 05 I didn't know what major I wanted to go into but I enjoy engineering type stuff, mechanics.  I got into the courses, hated the details. I got into Geography and absolutely love it. I've been done for a year and STILL don't have a job. Self-employment may be your greatest option if you are self driven, already skilled, and have PEOPLE SKILLS! What type of photography do you enjoy? Portrait and artistic work are saturated in most areas but that's not to say you can't do it. If she wants money, make money. When you make money at your day job, make more money on the side. The point when your side work doubles your day to day work...quit your day to day work. Or keep it. You may enjoy the break from your "hobby" career. It may even be a position you can get your own business known. 

Work at AutoZone and want to shoot cars? Let those people know that come in looking for older car parts.

Work at BestBuy? People come in asking questions? Tell them you can offer lessons for so much an hour for basics, and show them around their camera. 

Work for a studio. Portrait work is daily. Learn the biz, start your own, do better than your mentor/boss.

If you want to make money in photography, do it. It may not be easy, but it's not impossible.


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## rokvi (Nov 30, 2011)

If you decide to have the Man-to-Mum talk in a public place Make sure you pay for it lol.


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## MTVision (Nov 30, 2011)

You guys do realize this thread is from August????????


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## GrantH (Nov 30, 2011)

No, because how often are 4 month old threads on the front lines of the beginner forum? lol


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