# HELP::: PROTECTED PHOTO PAPER



## pyt504 (Aug 23, 2010)

Hi everyone I am new to the board and I am about 8months into photography. I have had 9 paid photo shoots. The problem that i am having is customers paying for photos and ordering very little then they copy and scan their photos!!! :x Is there some type of photo paper that i can order that will print the words across that says VOID or DO NOT COPY across the photo when they try to scan or take it to Wal-Mart or CVS and make their own unlimited copies of my photos that i edit??? Someone please help me out with this. I have a huge shoot on Sept 11th!!


Thanks for your time 

PYT


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## Pea-Pod (Aug 23, 2010)

there are a few things you can do. Walmart is not allowed to print copywritten material with out permission. You could put a logo on your prints (i know for a fact they request a release form because whn I was working on a portfolio i put the logo on my prints and had to write myself a release form just to get my prints, lol ) What I do now instead of dealing with a logo on the front i had a stamp made with my logo and copywrite and I stamp the back of the image with acid free ink. if you go with the logo on the front the customer will need to have a release form to make copies or more prints etc.


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## Vinny (Aug 23, 2010)

If you have a trademark or logo I would put that onto the photos across the front. Make that logo light enough to not really interfere with viewing the photos but dark enough to cause problems if scanned. Also, I would only hand out a contact sheet of those photos for people to review. Having smaller photos enlarged is less appealing than shrinking down larger photos. It may be more expensive to do it this way but you'll stop people from not buying the original photos. If they purchase the photos off the contact sheet then remove the logo but unfortunately with people having scanners selling additional copies probably won't happen.


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## arios23 (Aug 24, 2010)

you do not need to print the pictures, just hand them out a dvd with the photos with poor resolution but enough to watch them clearly, set your watermark all over the pictures, you can do it in photoshop recording the action that way you do not have to do it picture by picture.


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## JamesMason (Aug 24, 2010)

arios23 said:


> you do not need to print the pictures, just hand them out a dvd with the photos with poor resolution but enough to watch them clearly, set your watermark all over the pictures, you can do it in photoshop recording the action that way you do not have to do it picture by picture.


 
I believe they are talking about people buying a couple of prints then making copy's  


Wallmart employees should be trained to spot pro pics and question them when printed (i know boots here in the uk do that). How about printing your logo and copyright info on the back of the print, that way when they try to get it re printed, the store (should) refuse.


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## robyn_fresh (Aug 24, 2010)

If the problem is with the customers buying just a couple of prints and then making their own copies; put a watermark across your photos when first showing them to the customer. After that I think you don't sell prints. Sell a cd at a price which includes the release for the person to do whatever they wish with the images. Charge a decent price. Walmart charges $149; Sears charges $200; how much are your photographs worth? Figure it out, but then be satisfied with what you've been paid and know that the person may replicate the images.


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## pyt504 (Aug 24, 2010)

OHHHHHHHHHHHH thanks so much to everyone for the advice. Yes I had this cheap ass customer who bought 2 8X10 and 4 5x7s of her photos.. next think i know I saw her a week later in WAl-Mart copying my photos!!! It took everything I had in my body not to punch her in the face!!!!


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## Big Mike (Aug 24, 2010)

> OHHHHHHHHHHHH thanks so much to everyone for the advice. Yes I had this cheap ass customer who bought 2 8X10 and 4 5x7s of her photos.. next think i know I saw her a week later in WAl-Mart copying my photos!!! It took everything I had in my body not to punch her in the face!!!!


Wal-mart and other stores/labs have been sued over this...which is why they (usually) tell their employees not to make copies of photos without a release form.  

It's entirely likely that your clients doesn't really understand copyright laws.  The first step is to inform them that what they are doing is illegal.  You only sold them the prints, not the copyright to the images on them. 

You can also let the Wal-mart (or wherever) employees know that the client doesn't have the right to make copies and that Wal-mart can get in trouble for allowing or facilitating it.


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## JG_Coleman (Aug 24, 2010)

pyt504 said:


> OHHHHHHHHHHHH thanks so much to everyone for the advice. Yes I had this cheap ass customer who bought 2 8X10 and 4 5x7s of her photos.. next think i know I saw her a week later in WAl-Mart copying my photos!!! It took everything I had in my body not to punch her in the face!!!!


 
Yeah, I have a feeling that this kind of thing happens all the time unfortunately. The problem is that the machinery to make duplicate prints of these photos at Wal-mart is being operated by people that oftentimes barely make more than minimum wage. They aren't exactly going to be gung-ho about doing the best job they can. They aren't going to bother learning about copyright laws, they aren't going to feel up to hassling people over potential copyright issues, and at all costs, they'll want to avoid getting yelled at by angry customers for denying to make copies.

It's wrong, and entirely illegal... then again, I've worked alot of crappy, stressful retail jobs for barely enough cash to pay my bills, and although I don't condone it, I understand why it still happens. You're not often going to get "A+" work from employees that resentfully take home wages that barely make the grade.

My advice... don't rely entirely on places like Wal-mart to protect your copyright _for you_. Honestly, Wal-mart can effortlessly deal with being sued here or there... they have pretty much zero vested interest in protecting your copyright. Tell your clients what the deal is... either vocally or through a difficult-to-miss clause in a contract.


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## KmH (Aug 24, 2010)

pyt504 said:


> OHHHHHHHHHHHH thanks so much to everyone for the advice. Yes I had this cheap ass customer who bought 2 8X10 and 4 5x7s of her photos.. next think i know I saw her a week later in WAl-Mart copying my photos!!! It took everything I had in my body not to punch her in the face!!!!


What an amazing business attitude, and public presentation!

On a regular basis I visit all the retail print labs in my area, paying particular attention to Wal-Mart, Walgreen's, and Staples. 

They all have my business card on file and call to let me know if one of my clients has/is trying to get unauthorized copies made.

Of course, copyright is covered in my contract and it's something I also cover during the consult with the client prior to the sitting.

Is this you? http://pyt504.u.yuku.com/

http://www.iseecolor.com/profile/PYT504


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## beadgirl87 (Aug 24, 2010)

Where I work, when the customer wants digital photos printing, they have to accept the copyright delcaration on the front of the screen. Of course they can lie and say 'yes' but then it is more obvious later on.
Also I quickly check most digital photos before printing them and ask the customer for more infomation about the prints if I'm suspisous. Alot of them do not understand the rules, and have the opinon that because the photo is of them, then they must own it.
Another thing, is that most customers ask for help with scanning (also some do it sneakely) so if I was helping a customer, something like a huge stamp on the back of the paper would definatley draw my attention even more.
I avoid printing images if I am not sure about the copyright on them.
To conclude, it could be worth clearly and repeatedly telling your clients about the restrictions. If you explain more as well as get them to sign, then you have done your best.
Also, I work part time on minimum wage and do my work to the highest standard, and do not cut corners.


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## JG_Coleman (Aug 24, 2010)

beadgirl87 said:


> Where I work, when the customer wants digital photos printing, they have to accept the copyright delcaration on the front of the screen. Of course they can lie and say 'yes' but then it is more obvious later on.
> Also I quickly check most digital photos before printing them and ask the customer for more infomation about the prints if I'm suspisous. Alot of them do not understand the rules, and have the opinon that because the photo is of them, then they must own it.
> Another thing, is that most customers ask for help with scanning (also some do it sneakely) so if I was helping a customer, something like a huge stamp on the back of the paper would definatley draw my attention even more.
> I avoid printing images if I am not sure about the copyright on them.
> ...



Your dedication to your job is certainly much appreciated by many hard-working photographers.  I'm not trying to insinuate that _all_ minimum-wage workers cut corners... after all, I would like to think that I've done pretty well at many of my relatively low-paying jobs I've worked in the past... and the one that I work at now :meh:.

It's just that, in the grand scheme, people that sincerely do great work at low-paying jobs are usually in the minority.... that's all.  At least, that's been my experience with countless dozens and dozens of my past co-workers at everything from department stores, to warehouses, to auto shops.  And admittedly, I can't say that from time to time over the years, after taking a whole bunch of s*** from my boss and dealing with some a*****e customers... I might have... from time-to-time... just a bit... said to myself," Screw this job!"....and maybe... just maybe... that might have been reflected in my work performance on those days.


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## pyt504 (Aug 26, 2010)

KmH said:


> pyt504 said:
> 
> 
> > OHHHHHHHHHHHH thanks so much to everyone for the advice. Yes I had this cheap ass customer who bought 2 8X10 and 4 5x7s of her photos.. next think i know I saw her a week later in WAl-Mart copying my photos!!! It took everything I had in my body not to punch her in the face!!!!
> ...




Geez do i have a stalker? those pages are  super old (2008), but thanks for your comment. My business attitude is great but voicing my frustration on a chat board is fine. Who really takes the time to look up somebody accounts online. hahahaha


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## pyt504 (Aug 26, 2010)

JG_Coleman said:


> beadgirl87 said:
> 
> 
> > Where I work, when the customer wants digital photos printing, they have to accept the copyright delcaration on the front of the screen. Of course they can lie and say 'yes' but then it is more obvious later on.
> ...



I totally understand what you are saying J G... you know I just wish they had some type of paper.. which was my main question... that didnt show up when you printed the photos but would show up when they were scanned. They have regualr printer paper that is like that, but not photo paper im guessing since no one truly addressed that.


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## ann (Aug 26, 2010)

put a stamp on the back of the photo. it might help as it will be seen by the individual making the scan.

several years ago i had to give a friend a letter on letter head for her mother who wanted a christmas card made from a snapshot i made of her, and i mean this was a snapshot style image but the people making the cards indicated this was not taken by an amatuer and wouldn't do anything without the releases. 

So there are companies who do pay attention, including some of the 1 hour places.


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## pyt504 (Aug 26, 2010)

ann said:


> put a stamp on the back of the photo. it might help as it will be seen by the individual making the scan.
> 
> several years ago i had to give a friend a letter on letter head for her mother who wanted a christmas card made from a snapshot i made of her, and i mean this was a snapshot style image but the people making the cards indicated this was not taken by an amatuer and wouldn't do anything without the releases.
> 
> So there are companies who do pay attention, including some of the 1 hour places.





Thank you. I truly feel that this is the route that i will have to take. Someone else also mentioned about the stamp. I am going to do this. As I stated I just started doing this so everyone input is greatly appreciated. I have learned soooooooooooo much from this board and i have only been on here a few days. 

THANKS SO MUCH FOR THIS GREAT FORUM!!!!


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## pyt504 (Aug 26, 2010)

Big Mike said:


> > OHHHHHHHHHHHH thanks so much to everyone for the advice. Yes I had this cheap ass customer who bought 2 8X10 and 4 5x7s of her photos.. next think i know I saw her a week later in WAl-Mart copying my photos!!! It took everything I had in my body not to punch her in the face!!!!
> 
> 
> Wal-mart and other stores/labs have been sued over this...which is why they (usually) tell their employees not to make copies of photos without a release form.
> ...





Thanks Mike... I will explain this in more details to them:hug::


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## KmH (Aug 26, 2010)

pyt504 said:


> Who really takes the time to look up somebody accounts online.


Smart clients and you wouldn't be the first to have a client discover an online rant about them.


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