# What are the most bloated areas of professional photography?



## TonyMontanaSlot (Jun 25, 2013)

From your observations, where is the highest competition? From the highest to the lowest.
And what do you think pays the most?
I really would like to try myself at landscape photography! So exciting!


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## Steve5D (Jun 25, 2013)

I think there are probably more "senior portrait" folks out there than anything else, then would be wedding photographers.

Pay? I'm guessing wedding photographers do best, compensation-wise...


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## SCraig (Jun 25, 2013)

Steve5D said:


> I think there are probably more "senior portrait" folks out there than anything else, then would be wedding photographers.
> 
> Pay? I'm guessing wedding photographers do best, compensation-wise...



I suspect it varies across the country, but I don't know that for certain.  Around here everybody with a camera is claiming to be a professional wedding photographer.  Last time I looked (couple of years ago) there were over 250 wedding photographers in the town I grew up in (population 136,000 in 2011).  When I was a kid the population was about half that and there were exactly two wedding photographers.


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## runnah (Jun 25, 2013)

The belly area.


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## orljustin (Jun 25, 2013)

"From your observations, where is the highest competition? From the highest to the lowest.And what do you think pays the most?
I really would like to try myself at landscape photography! So exciting!"

Landscape photography is exciting?  

I'd guess landscape/nature/flowers etc is the worst, since anyone can walk outside to do it.


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## runnah (Jun 25, 2013)

orljustin said:


> "From your observations, where is the highest competition? From the highest to the lowest.And what do you think pays the most?
> I really would like to try myself at landscape photography! So exciting!"
> 
> Landscape photography is exciting?
> ...



Rotainmod is going to kick your ass.


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## TonyMontanaSlot (Jun 25, 2013)

orljustin said:


> "From your observations, where is the highest competition? From the highest to the lowest.And what do you think pays the most?
> I really would like to try myself at landscape photography! So exciting!"
> 
> Landscape photography is exciting?
> ...


I disagree. I believe it's far more complicated than just "to walk outside". You have to plan your trip, find the right place and the right time, weather conditions.... And nature is so unpredictable.



SCraig said:


> Steve5D said:
> 
> 
> > I think there are probably  more "senior portrait" folks out there than anything else, then would be  wedding photographers.
> ...


So true:lmao:. I wouldn't like to be a wedding photographer, too much pressure.
Shooting people is a joy, but not those with a lot of insecurities:raisedbrow:
What about commercial photographers?


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## orljustin (Jun 25, 2013)

Most people don't take those steps, yet consider themselves 'landscape photographers' because they can point the camera toward a mountain and click.  That's why it's bloated.


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## SCraig (Jun 25, 2013)

orljustin said:


> Most people don't take those steps, yet consider themselves 'landscape photographers' because they can point the camera toward a mountain and click.  That's why it's bloated.



You have just described the difference between a "Photographer" and a "Picture Taker".


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## runnah (Jun 25, 2013)

SCraig said:


> orljustin said:
> 
> 
> > Most people don't take those steps, yet consider themselves 'landscape photographers' because they can point the camera toward a mountain and click.  That's why it's bloated.
> ...



Yar, I could say pictures of babies and food because that is all I see on facebook, but those aren't "photographer" just people with cell phones.


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## dbvirago (Jun 25, 2013)

What's the over/under on this thread getting locked?


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## TonyMontanaSlot (Jun 25, 2013)

dbvirago said:


> What's the over/under on this thread getting locked?



What do you mean?


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## runnah (Jun 25, 2013)

TonyMontanaSlot said:


> dbvirago said:
> 
> 
> > What's the over/under on this thread getting locked?
> ...



It's a method of displaying the odds on a wager. Example, this horse is a 5 to 1 favorite to win the race.


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## TonyMontanaSlot (Jun 25, 2013)

runnah said:


> TonyMontanaSlot said:
> 
> 
> > dbvirago said:
> ...


Oh, if so, I don't understand what's wrong with this thread I'm just curious about the topic


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## ShooterJ (Jun 25, 2013)

Just get a boat and shadow a cruise ship around until it sinks... snap away and get the news stations in a bidding war.


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## TonyMontanaSlot (Jun 25, 2013)

ShooterJ said:


> Just get a boat and shadow a cruise ship around until it sinks... snap away and get the news stations in a bidding war.



:lmao:this made my day


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## imagemaker46 (Jun 25, 2013)

With the exception of the high end photography that requires more technical skill.  Every form of photography has been saturated and bloated with people that seem to believe that they will be able to make crazy amounts of money by just buying a camera.  If you talk to wedding photographers they will say it's their area, portrait photographers, it's portraits, sports, it's guys like me that see it and hear it all the time.  Personally I believe that it's the wedding side, it is the one area that people can get away with asking a lot of money without justifying their skills.  They can ask pretty much anything and some sucker will pay it.  Shooting portraits, sports, landscapes, etc. the amount of money people are willing to pay is a lot less.


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## ShooterJ (Jun 25, 2013)

That always fascinates me... before I got into photography, I could see the difference between a professional shot and a snapshot ... amazing landscapes, wildlife, gorgeous portraits... things that were beyond what most people do with their camera..

So why, oh why ... are people paying for the low rate stuff?

I want my work to be GOOD work before I think about making money on it... how do people get by with crap work and get paid?


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## amolitor (Jun 25, 2013)

People frequently just want a representation of the object or person or event. It's a memory cue, not a piece of art.


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## ShooterJ (Jun 25, 2013)

Then why pay for that instead of taking the pictures themselves? Everyone in my family practically has some sort of camera...

That's what I don't get. If it's for the memories, why pay somebody to do what you could do?


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## ShooterJ (Jun 25, 2013)

I guess it's not a stretch if I think about it... I've had some family tell me I'm getting professional results.

I'm not ... but I know that because I'm in school for it and know the difference... what looks mediocre to me, may look good to them.

Is that how it happens?


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## IByte (Jun 25, 2013)

dbvirago said:


> What's the over/under on this thread getting locked?



2 pints and a dozen wings it's get locked within 6 pages.


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## TonyMontanaSlot (Jun 25, 2013)

ShooterJ said:


> That always fascinates me... before I got into photography, I could see the difference between a professional shot and a snapshot ... amazing landscapes, wildlife, gorgeous portraits... things that were beyond what most people do with their camera..
> 
> So why, oh why ... are people paying for the low rate stuff?
> 
> I want my work to be GOOD work before I think about making money on it... how do people get by with crap work and get paid?



Because these guys are good at pushing sales


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## ShooterJ (Jun 25, 2013)

That wouldn't cut it... if I have a choice between prime rib and a Mcdonalds dollar burger... wouldn't matter if the drive through guy could sell ice to an eskimo.. I know where the quality is.


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## imagemaker46 (Jun 25, 2013)

Society has changed the definitions of what is considered great, good, mediocre and bad.  People are willing to accept less from photography in order to save a dollar, what used to be considered good is now being considered as great.  For the average person they really don't care anymore, as long as they have an image.


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## ShooterJ (Jun 25, 2013)

imagemaker46 said:


> Society has changed the definitions of what is considered great, good, mediocre and bad.  People are willing to accept less from photography in order to save a dollar, what used to be considered good is now being considered as great.  For the average person they really don't care anymore, as long as they have an image.



What a sad development.


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## TonyMontanaSlot (Jun 25, 2013)

ShooterJ said:


> I know where the quality is.


But the majority of people who pays them are not  Or as have *imagemaker46* said, they're just want to save a buck in expense of quality


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## ShooterJ (Jun 25, 2013)

Ah well... more power to them I guess. I want to reach a level of quality in my work that I can take some pride in... and that's really for me, not anyone else.


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## bratkinson (Jun 25, 2013)

Perhaps one of the most difficult aspects of starting a new business is locating it properly. One would not place a high-end restaurant with meals starting at $50 in the poor section of town...or any town less than 1,000,000 population. It's called market analysis. 

So, I have to ask, WHERE is your anticipated market for your photographs? Looking for someone with, let's say, (US) $100 to spend on a wall decoration is getting more difficult every day. Given your location as Siberia, Russia, my limited USA-thinking is that there aren't too many in Siberia with that kind of loose change. OK, considering the internet? Join the 10,000,000 out there in cyber land trying to do the same thing. How will you get them to even FIND your website?

I'm no pro. I never have charged nor will I ever charge for any pictures I've taken. I give them all away at my own expense. But I DO have a couple of failed businesses under my belt, and I know those that have tried and failed multiple times as well. Too often it's the case of poor location, understimating costs, overestimating ones' own capabilities, and too much competition. Throw in crooked and/or uncaring employees, poor bookkeeping/accounting and tax troubles to add to causes of failure as well.

I'm not saying "Don't try", but first make sure you are aware of the risks, the losses, and the heartbreak of 'going under'.


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## KmH (Jun 25, 2013)

The entry level of retail photography is the most bloated and competitive. There is an amazing amount of 'churn' at that level, because few of those people have any business acumen.

Landscape photographers starve to death unless they do other more commercially viable types of photography.

It is said 85% of all the photos that sell have people in them, and the vast majority of those are bought by the people in the photos.


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## orljustin (Jun 25, 2013)

"You have just described the difference between a "Photographer" and a "Picture Taker".

And they both try to sell their work for cash.  That makes it bloated.  Plus there are lots of people, OP in included, who find it exciting.  No need for knowledge of lighting or posing.


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## TonyMontanaSlot (Jun 25, 2013)

bratkinson said:


> Perhaps one of the most difficult aspects of starting a new business is locating it properly. One would not place a high-end restaurant with meals starting at $50 in the poor section of town...or any town less than 1,000,000 population. It's called market analysis.
> 
> So, I have to ask, WHERE is your anticipated market for your photographs? Looking for someone with, let's say, (US) $100 to spend on a wall decoration is getting more difficult every day. Given your location as Siberia, Russia, my limited USA-thinking is that there aren't too many in Siberia with that kind of loose change. OK, considering the internet? Join the 10,000,000 out there in cyber land trying to do the same thing. How will you get them to even FIND your website?
> 
> ...



You've made some good points here. Analysis is important. A lot of hunters and fishers in my area. Some are pretty wealthy. They definitely would love to have nice wall/table prints of a local landscapes, rivers, forests, mountains. Most of the territory here are wild green areas and not a big cities although I live in one (near 1 000 000 population).
As I did some research, most (if not all) photographers down here are doing portrait/wedding thing. 
That said I'm not going to start this right now as I literally just read what the aperture is. For a few years, I'm going to RTFM and practice.
Oh and if someone curious, average monthly salary here is $1000.


orljustin said:


> "You have just described the difference between a "Photographer" and a "Picture Taker".
> 
> And they both try to sell their work for cash.  That makes it bloated.   Plus there are lots of people, OP in included, who find it exciting.  No  need for knowledge of lighting or posing.


Well, I have a reason to be excited! I am an IT guy working 9 to 5 at the desk or if I'm lucky, doing some cable/server works. I'm good at it, it pays me well, but it just gets boring. Don't get me wrong, I like computers, but I LOVE beautiful music, beautiful nature and of course beautiful women. And I can't sit on my *** anymore:meh:
I wouldn't try to sell my amateurish snapshots in the near future. Only if someone will ask me "Hey dude nice pic, can I buy it?"


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## amolitor (Jun 26, 2013)

bratkinson said:


> Perhaps one of the most difficult aspects of starting a new business is locating it properly. One would not place a high-end restaurant with meals starting at $50 in the poor section of town...or any town less than 1,000,000 population. It's called market analysis.



You might want to check out the location of French Laundry, one of the highest end restaurants in north america.


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## bratkinson (Jun 26, 2013)

Being located in the heart of the Napa Valley, even though the French Laundry is in a small town, the tourist trade alone generates enough 'new' customers to sustain the business.  Of course, the high quality food served makes repeat customers, I'm sure.  

Like the first, last, and only rule in real estate: Location, Location, Location.  The wine-country tourists in the Napa Valley would likely have the level of disposable income needed to support the French Laundry.  But I'm sure there's numerous restaurants in that area for less well-heeled clientele, too.


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## amolitor (Jun 26, 2013)

Of course you're right about location, my point is that you then specialized that to "towns over 1,000,000" which veered into the territory of wrong. I just thought it was a good example, to underline the point that every market and every business is different.


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