# Can anything save Sony?



## KmH

They have already sold off their Vaio computer business.
What's next?

Can anything save Sony? - Oct. 30, 2014


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## runnah

Sounds like they are in the process of cutting some of the fat from their walkman/discman era. Odds are they will cut down a few other areas and focus on their core product lines.

Granted the two things they mentioned in the article seem like turds, but the Japanese market is very different than here.


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## waday

> "Sony doesn't seem to be making new products like they used to," Ueno says. "It seems like they haven't done much in the last 10 years."


Pretty much sums up Sony.

I loved their Walkmans; even had one of their cell phones about 10 years ago.

I remember a time when anything Sony was considered good. Now, I consider it subpar, if I even remember the brand when browsing.


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## astroNikon

Most other makers have sold off their computer line by now too.
I had Sony's first walkman headset radio.  I still have it around somewhere and it still worked last time I tried it, many many years ago.
I also still have and use a Sony 13inch stereo TV from 1989ish.
They used to make stuff that lasts and was cutting edge.  Their Vaio line of laptops was top notch but they still have to compete in the open market.
Nowadays I don't really know what they make.


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## astroNikon

interesting.


> At one Tokyo campus, a deputy manager demonstrated a credit-card sized electronic device that is designed to replace a wallet full of cash cards used by millions of Japanese consumers. The device connects to a smartphone, and allows users to easily buy train tickets or snacks at the convenience store.


This will be dead upon arrival if they do this.  Apple already has their Pay system and the CC vendors have their auto pay system, both *not* requiring a small sized attachment, much less creating the vendor contracts,banks etc to support it.


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## astroNikon

This guy is apparently postive looking on SONY ==> How Sony&#8217;s getting its groove back - The Cody Word - MarketWatch


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## ConradM

waday said:


> "Sony doesn't seem to be making new products like they used to," Ueno says. "It seems like they haven't done much in the last 10 years."
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty much sums up Sony.
> 
> I loved their Walkmans; even had one of their cell phones about 10 years ago.
> 
> I remember a time when anything Sony was considered good.* Now, I consider it subpar, if I even remember the brand when browsing.*
Click to expand...


You consider it subpar because of preference or because you just don't realize what's actual?


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## waday

ConradM said:


> waday said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Sony doesn't seem to be making new products like they used to," Ueno says. "It seems like they haven't done much in the last 10 years."
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty much sums up Sony.
> 
> I loved their Walkmans; even had one of their cell phones about 10 years ago.
> 
> I remember a time when anything Sony was considered good.* Now, I consider it subpar, if I even remember the brand when browsing.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You consider it subpar because of preference or because you just don't realize what's actual?
Click to expand...

Not sure I completely understand the latter part of your question, but I consider it sub par through a combination of actual use and, to a certain extent, preference.

Let me state, my opinions are not based on their camera systems. Most of their other technology. (Although, I NEVER liked their low-end P&S cameras.)

For example, I find their TVs to be sub par to other brands. Currently, my house has three major brands of televisions, and I dislike the Sony the most (all are LCD). Conversely, when we had CRTs, I liked the Sony the best. My father-in-law bought a brand new Sony (because Sony was the 'best') and my brother-in-law bought a brand new Samsung at the same time. They were absolutely comparable televisions; all features pretty much the same.

The Sony looked horrible next to the Samsung. It looked horrible. My FIL exchanged the Sony for a Samsung the next day.

I may have been a little harsh.. I do still recognize Sony as a 'good' brand, but I no longer think of them as the best, as I once did.


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## Jay Vee

True, Sony isn't their former self but I don't think they're going anywhere soon. Their television, computer and mobile devices divisions are struggling right now but some of the big players are too. IBM dumped their PC division a few years ago and HP almost did too. Even Acer is struggling with stagnant and falling sales. Samsung just announced a huge loss with their mobile devices even though they're the market leader in cell phones.

Markets changes and Sony is just responding to it.


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## ConradM

waday said:


> ConradM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> waday said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Sony doesn't seem to be making new products like they used to," Ueno says. "It seems like they haven't done much in the last 10 years."
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty much sums up Sony.
> 
> I loved their Walkmans; even had one of their cell phones about 10 years ago.
> 
> I remember a time when anything Sony was considered good.* Now, I consider it subpar, if I even remember the brand when browsing.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You consider it subpar because of preference or because you just don't realize what's actual?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not sure I completely understand the latter part of your question, but I consider it sub par through a combination of actual use and, to a certain extent, preference.
> 
> Let me state, my opinions are not based on their camera systems. Most of their other technology. (Although, I NEVER liked their low-end P&S cameras.)
> 
> For example, I find their TVs to be sub par to other brands. Currently, my house has three major brands of televisions, and I dislike the Sony the most (all are LCD). Conversely, when we had CRTs, I liked the Sony the best. My father-in-law bought a brand new Sony (because Sony was the 'best') and my brother-in-law bought a brand new Samsung at the same time. They were absolutely comparable televisions; all features pretty much the same.
> 
> The Sony looked horrible next to the Samsung. It looked horrible. My FIL exchanged the Sony for a Samsung the next day.
> 
> I may have been a little harsh.. I do still recognize Sony as a 'good' brand, but I no longer think of them as the best, as I once did.
Click to expand...

Interesting. Mind you aside from their cameras I'm not much of a Sony fan but... They're simply making top tier products in their respective categories. They have one of the best android smart phones and their TV's are considered to be reference level. Coming back around to cameras you have the a77ii which blows away other APSC bodies in almost every way. It get's beat out in low light by the D7100. Then you have the a7 line which speaks for itself. 

Financially they might be struggling but that isn't a representation of what they're putting out there.


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## waday

ConradM said:


> Interesting. Mind you aside from their cameras I'm not much of a Sony fan but... They're simply making top tier products in their respective categories. They have one of the best android smart phones and their TV's are considered to be reference level.


 I think they're making great products, but I disagree that they're making 'reference level' products.

Sony's smartphone can be considered 'one of the best' when people realize Sony is making a smartphone. The 'Xperia' is nowhere near commonplace and is NOT a household name.


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## ConradM

waday said:


> ConradM said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. Mind you aside from their cameras I'm not much of a Sony fan but... They're simply making top tier products in their respective categories. They have one of the best android smart phones and their TV's are considered to be reference level.
> 
> 
> 
> I think they're making great products, but I disagree that they're making 'reference level' products.
> 
> Sony's smartphone can be considered 'one of the best' when people realize Sony is making a smartphone. The 'Xperia' is nowhere near commonplace and is NOT a household name.
Click to expand...


Since when did the ignorance of the masses determine if a product is good or bad? Based on specs and performance the xperia is one of if not the best android smart phone currently. These are just facts.


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## waday

ConradM said:


> waday said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ConradM said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. Mind you aside from their cameras I'm not much of a Sony fan but... They're simply making top tier products in their respective categories. They have one of the best android smart phones and their TV's are considered to be reference level.
> 
> 
> 
> I think they're making great products, but I disagree that they're making 'reference level' products.
> 
> Sony's smartphone can be considered 'one of the best' when people realize Sony is making a smartphone. The 'Xperia' is nowhere near commonplace and is NOT a household name.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Since when did the ignorance of the masses determine if a product is good or bad? Based on specs and performance the xperia is one of if not the best android smart phone currently. These are just facts.
Click to expand...

Facts? By all means, please post your studies/findings. I would love to read them. (I'm not being sarcastic.)

Specs and performance alone do not determine how good a product is compared to others. If you can't sell it based on specs and performance alone, something else is a limiting factor.

Let's compare to cars, since I don't have time to think of other examples. Namely, a station wagon. It is practical, pretty good on gas mileage, and can get you from A to Z hauling all your family and goods. Sounds like a dream! However, they've been dying out (at least in the US). The ones that are still around are becoming crossovers. They're awesome and very practical, but if you can't get people to buy them, they're not the 'best'.


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## ConradM

waday said:


> ConradM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> waday said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ConradM said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. Mind you aside from their cameras I'm not much of a Sony fan but... They're simply making top tier products in their respective categories. They have one of the best android smart phones and their TV's are considered to be reference level.
> 
> 
> 
> I think they're making great products, but I disagree that they're making 'reference level' products.
> 
> Sony's smartphone can be considered 'one of the best' when people realize Sony is making a smartphone. The 'Xperia' is nowhere near commonplace and is NOT a household name.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Since when did the ignorance of the masses determine if a product is good or bad? Based on specs and performance the xperia is one of if not the best android smart phone currently. These are just facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Facts? By all means, please post your studies/findings. I would love to read them. (I'm not being sarcastic.)
> 
> Specs and performance alone do not determine how good a product is compared to others. If you can't sell it based on specs and performance alone, something else is a limiting factor.
> 
> Let's compare to cars, since I don't have time to think of other examples. Namely, a station wagon. It is practical, pretty good on gas mileage, and can get you from A to Z hauling all your family and goods. Sounds like a dream! However, they've been dying out (at least in the US). The ones that are still around are becoming crossovers. They're awesome and very practical, but if you can't get people to buy them, they're not the 'best'.
Click to expand...


Quick google search - Sony Xperia Z3 vs HTC One M8 comparison review: Two of the best smartphones of 2014 - but which is best? - PC Advisor

The limiting factor is sheep mentality, blatant ignorance. Not trying to sound harsh but the masses make purchase decisions based on trends and emotions, not numbers and facts. 

Again, I disagree that sales numbers = best or better. I don't even understand the logic.


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## waday

ConradM said:


> Quick google search - Sony Xperia Z3 vs HTC One M8 comparison review: Two of the best smartphones of 2014 - but which is best? - PC Advisor
> 
> The limiting factor is sheep mentality, blatant ignorance. Not trying to sound harsh but the masses make purchase decisions based on trends and emotions, not numbers and facts.
> 
> Again, I disagree that sales numbers = best or better. I don't even understand the logic.


A single article comparing two phones doesn't constitute best, it would be, which one is 'better' out of these two, since there are only two phones being compared. Grammar aside, let me quote the article for you:



> Ultimately your choice will be a subjective one on design and build, with the added spice that the Xperia Z3 probably marginally shades the objective comparison - but you can get the HTC One M8 a little cheaper.



Again, specs and performance ALONE do not constitute best of the bunch. It's subjective to each individual person. There are other factors in determining which is best. If there weren't, we'd all be driving one of the following: Ferrari, Rolls-Royce, Aston Martin, et cetera. The reason we aren't driving these on a daily basis is because we can't afford them. But.. but... they are the 'best', aren't they? Yes, in performance. But they fail on so many other levels. (Frankly, I would HATE driving a Ferrari in some of the snow we get in our area, and I would probably be forced to walk than drive that car in a foot of snow.)

This sheep does not wish to baaaaaaah... uhh.. blindly follow companies.. There are a few companies that I do like, and they will get repeat baaaaaah... sorry, business. But, I open my eyes and read reviews before baaaaaaaaah... uh, buying their products.


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## ConradM

Umm, if you've been talking about what is best "for you" this whole time then it's a pointless discussion. I was talking purely numbers and specs.


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## waday

ConradM said:


> Umm, if you've been talking about what is best "for you" this whole time then it's a pointless discussion. I was talking purely numbers and specs.


The world isn't objective. It's subjective.

Just like the term best.


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## rexbobcat

I don't care if Sony cuts back on anything just as long as they keep producing game systems lol. It seems like the only profitable part of Sony nowadays (and maybe their cameras)


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## minicoop1985

I dunno. With the A7, I feel like there's something positive going on there. I hate the very first SLT cameras (a55, for example) they came out with, but drastic improvements were made quite quickly, and I've almost switched a few times. As for their other stuff... I have no idea. Personally, I don't see their stuff to be on the same level as Samsung's 4K ULTIMATE MACHO MACHINE WITH BIGGER NUMBERS TVs, or their stereos competing with Bose and the like, but that's my impression of the brand. Maybe cameras and gaming is where they're going to focus, since they do make sensors for Nikon, Hasselblad, etc, etc.


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## Derrel

How come nobody mentions Sony's totally awesome MOVIE and MUSIC division and all the awesome movies and music they spend millions of dollars per month on? I mean, clearly, SONY has the best movies of allll the camera companies! And no camera maker--not one--can match the amazing hip-hop or R&B music coming out of Sony! I mean, we all know that Canon makes a mean photocopier, but Sony leads the camera business by a mile with its movie and music offerings!


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## ConradM

minicoop1985 said:


> I dunno. With the A7, I feel like there's something positive going on there. I hate the very first SLT cameras (a55, for example) they came out with, but drastic improvements were made quite quickly, and I've almost switched a few times. As for their other stuff... I have no idea. Personally, I don't see their stuff to be on the same level as Samsung's 4K ULTIMATE MACHO MACHINE WITH BIGGER NUMBERS TVs, or their stereos competing with Bose and the like, but that's my impression of the brand. Maybe cameras and gaming is where they're going to focus, since they do make sensors for Nikon, Hasselblad, etc, etc.



No their tvs are top tier - *The Sony KD-65X9005B is a thoroughly intoxicating example of leading-edge 4K tech. The UHD image quality with native content exhibits a depth and detail that's beguiling, while its 2160p upscaling talents are top notch. You can be confident that this set will make all your current TV favourites look better than they've ever done before. Active Shutter 3D performance is (literally) outstanding. The provision of HEVC decoding and HDMI 2.0 compatibility ensures a level of future-proofing, important as 4K standards remain in a state of flux. Overall, the KD-65X9005B is a genuine showstopper. Sony is back at the top of its TV game.
*
and this is coming from someone that would never buy a Sony tv. 

 I don't think they're doing much as far as sound is concerned. Also, Bose generally isn't considered to be that great these days.


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## minicoop1985

I guess I haven't been paying attention to TVs for a while. Not too long ago, their TVs went from AMAZING AWESOME to average meh, but by all means things could have (and apparently have) changed.


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## minicoop1985

I guess I haven't been paying attention to TVs for a while. Not too long ago, their TVs went from AMAZING AWESOME to average meh, but by all means things could have (and apparently have) changed.


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## Stevepwns

I just recently purchased a new LED flat panel.  Being a Samsung whore, I of course went right to them first.  Ive had half a dozen monitors by Samsung and 2 LCD TV's by them including, the S3, Note 2 and now Note 3 smart phones.  All served me very well and no complaints from anything Samsung has made.  I did however take note at the Sony LED sitting right next to it on the wall at Best Buy. The picture was far superior, the price was better and so was the warranty.  So I went with the Sony. All of the TV's by Sony had a better price and picture compared to the other in the same price point.  

I just happen to start using Sony DSLR's by no other reasons than I like what they were offering.  Now I am huge fan of there camera's.  I would say from personal experience they produce a very good product and are among the best. Their TV line has the lowest failure rate and from what I see the best picture available, currently.


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## cgw

And yet Sony sensors are everywhere--not exactly the products of a stagnant company. Seems Sony is smarter than the people who knock their merch.


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## greybeard

ConradM said:


> waday said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ConradM said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. Mind you aside from their cameras I'm not much of a Sony fan but... They're simply making top tier products in their respective categories. They have one of the best android smart phones and their TV's are considered to be reference level.
> 
> 
> 
> I think they're making great products, but I disagree that they're making 'reference level' products.
> 
> Sony's smartphone can be considered 'one of the best' when people realize Sony is making a smartphone. The 'Xperia' is nowhere near commonplace and is NOT a household name.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Since when did the ignorance of the masses determine if a product is good or bad? Based on specs and performance the xperia is one of if not the best android smart phone currently. These are just facts.
Click to expand...

I have never seen an advertisement for a Sony phone.


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## runnah

greybeard said:


> ConradM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> waday said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ConradM said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. Mind you aside from their cameras I'm not much of a Sony fan but... They're simply making top tier products in their respective categories. They have one of the best android smart phones and their TV's are considered to be reference level.
> 
> 
> 
> I think they're making great products, but I disagree that they're making 'reference level' products.
> 
> Sony's smartphone can be considered 'one of the best' when people realize Sony is making a smartphone. The 'Xperia' is nowhere near commonplace and is NOT a household name.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Since when did the ignorance of the masses determine if a product is good or bad? Based on specs and performance the xperia is one of if not the best android smart phone currently. These are just facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have never seen an advertisement for a Sony phone.
Click to expand...


They are huge in Europe


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## Ysarex

North Korea too.

Joe


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## greybeard

runnah said:


> greybeard said:
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> ConradM said:
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> 
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> 
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> waday said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ConradM said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. Mind you aside from their cameras I'm not much of a Sony fan but... They're simply making top tier products in their respective categories. They have one of the best android smart phones and their TV's are considered to be reference level.
> 
> 
> 
> I think they're making great products, but I disagree that they're making 'reference level' products.
> 
> Sony's smartphone can be considered 'one of the best' when people realize Sony is making a smartphone. The 'Xperia' is nowhere near commonplace and is NOT a household name.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Since when did the ignorance of the masses determine if a product is good or bad? Based on specs and performance the xperia is one of if not the best android smart phone currently. These are just facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have never seen an advertisement for a Sony phone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They are huge in Europe
Click to expand...

Wonder why they don't advertise in the US?


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## thereyougo!

I think Sony's main problem with TVs is that they look very utilitarian.  Samsung TVs tend to look more dynamic.  But there is a problem.   I've had three 56 inch panels go faulty with Samsung TVs.  So while they might look great, the quality isn't quite there.  At least, not yet.

I think that apple started Sony's woes as they took Sony's place in the premium laptop market, and I have to put up my hand as one of the converted.  I had a huge 21 inch Sony Vaio laptop that was the dog's wotsits.  But working in an industry that uses mainly apple products I got seduced.  

As far as phones are concerned, the same thing happened there.  I remember having the Sony Ericsson K800i with a proper Xenon flash.  Ok only 3.2 megapixels but it had a decent lens and the flash was at least useable.  The iPhone when it came out was absolutely rubbish.  I resisted til the 3GS.  The first generation you couldn't even send photo messages.  

I have the 6plus and the Xperia Z2.  Overall, I would say the Sony is a much better phone, but the iPhone is better to use.  This has always been the case.  Samsung phones are generally better than iPhones too.  Heck, even Nokia.  I shake my head when I see people using their flash on their iPhones.  It's still pretty much unusable.  

The thing I like doing when I have my 645Z with me is to point my camera at something uninteresting.  Before long, an iPhone owner will see me (they can't miss it really!) and copy the shot I'm 'taking'.  It's slightly evil and a little bit snobbish I suppose, but some people assume that you must have a great shot since you have such a big camera, so they have to get it too.  And this is the problem with specs.  Real world is always a compromise between specs and usability.  Sony need to make that step up.  

Mind you, I hope they do, as I have just bought the A7R as there are times when I want to walk up a mountain without a big camera.  Not all that many times, and I'll always wonder what the shot would have been like with the Pentax, but on a long distance walk, something's gotta give, and I don't want it to be my back!


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