# New To Photography



## NYC1225 (Dec 14, 2011)

Hey guys, i'm new here.  I recently set up a salt water aquarium and with my current camera (Panasonic Lumix point-and-shoot lol) I can't get any great pics.  I saw some AMAZING pics on a few reef tank forums, all done with "professional" cameras.  This has inspired me to purchase a new camera and dump the Panasonic lol.  I had my eye on the Sony NEX-5N, Canon t3i, and the Nikon D3100/5000 since they all fall in my price range.  I really like the way the Sony looks/feels.  I played around with one for a bit at Best Buy.  In terms of how it compares to the Canon and the Nikon's. . .well I have no idea.  All I have to go by are the comparisons I find online and they all seem to state the same thing.  The Sony's image quality is on par with the Canon and Nikon's.  Is this true?  Which camera do you guys recommend?  Keep in mind it will be used for A LOT of aquarium pics, some indoor shots, as well as many outdoor shots (of vehicles. . .if that makes a difference). -Thanks


----------



## Pau1 (Dec 14, 2011)

Another thread on which camera should I buy? Uggggh!


----------



## SCraig (Dec 14, 2011)

Shooting an aquarium is a bit more involved than just "Having a professional camera".  It doesn't matter whether it's a point-and-shoot or a Nikon D3 if you try and get shots with a flash on the camera blazing all you're going to get is a blaze of glass in the image.  Likewise if you try and shoot one without a flash all you will most likely get is a blur of fish because they move fast.  A reef tank will be easier since there isn't a lot of movement but the fact remains: Just because you have a "Professional" camera doesn't mean you'll get the shot you want.  When shooting aquariums it's all about the lighting setup.


----------



## kassad (Dec 14, 2011)

Google Takashi Amano.    

While the Nex-5n is a great camera it has no hotshot or sync port to trigger an off camera flash.


----------



## DiskoJoe (Dec 14, 2011)

yeah just about any of those cameras would be about the same. The point kassad makes about the flash port is very relevant or at least might be to you later on. If you go nikon get the 5100 instead of the 3100. Also sony makes dslr's too which are pretty good prices and decent quality. Lenses are cheaper for sony dslr's to because they do not need internal motors like nikon and canon.


----------



## SCraig (Dec 14, 2011)

DiskoJoe said:


> ...Lenses are cheaper for sony dslr's to because they do not need internal motors like nikon and canon.


Not all Nikon lenses have internal focusing motors.  I suspect the same holds true for Canon.


----------



## Snakeguy101 (Dec 14, 2011)

to get a good shot of an aquarium, I use a dome flash sitting on the center brace and point it straight up away from the water. Then I take a large whit styrofoam cooler and set it on top of that so that it is about a foot away from the top of the flash. This acts as my diffuser and produces some very nice shots. Also, check out this website and look through the photos for more ideas: Aquatic Photography Forum


----------



## NYC1225 (Dec 14, 2011)

SCraig said:


> Shooting an aquarium is a bit more involved than just "Having a professional camera". It doesn't matter whether it's a point-and-shoot or a Nikon D3 if you try and get shots with a flash on the camera blazing all you're going to get is a blaze of glass in the image. Likewise if you try and shoot one without a flash all you will most likely get is a blur of fish because they move fast. A reef tank will be easier since there isn't a lot of movement but the fact remains: Just because you have a "Professional" camera doesn't mean you'll get the shot you want. When shooting aquariums it's all about the lighting setup.




I wasn't referring to the fact that a professional camera is all you need to shoot an aquarium, nor did I state that having a professional camera will guarantee the fact that i'll get the shot I want.  I just assumed that I would need a more advanced camera to get better quality pics, hence the reason I used quotation marks around the word professional.  I only mentioned the aquarium to give you guys information on how I would be using the camera so you guys could give me a better recommendation on which one to purchase.


----------



## NYC1225 (Dec 14, 2011)

kassad said:


> Google Takashi Amano.
> 
> While the Nex-5n is a great camera it has no hotshot or sync port to trigger an off camera flash.



The majority of pics I have seen use no flash. . .this a SALTWATER tank with extremely bright lights.  Two 14K bulbs as well as two 10K bulbs.  I don't see a need for flash. . .maybe i'm wrong but I haven't seen many pics where people have been using flash. . .with the T5 HO or Metal Halide lights I don't see how flash would benefit the shot. . .


----------



## Natalie (Dec 14, 2011)

All of those cameras are perfectly adequate for aquarium photography and will be able to take some fantastic photos. The actual camera body makes surprisingly little difference for most applications. Find a store that has all three cameras in stock and play around with them for a while, see which one feels the best in hand and which one has the most intuitive setting adjustments to you, because when you need to change the aperture in the blink of an eye, you don't want to be fumbling around with controls. Also, research lenses and more importantly, what sort of flash system you want to get. Because once you buy a camera body, you are pretty much locked into that brand's gear and accessories unless you want to sell everything and start over. Before you start looking into flash systems and whatnot for aquarium photography however, you should probably play around for a while with other types of photography (i.e., outdoor and well-lit indoor) so you can sort of learn the ropes before you invest in thousands of dollars of gear. Getting in over your head when you're completely new to photography can be extremely frustrating - take your time and learn things at your own pace.


----------



## Natalie (Dec 14, 2011)

NYC1225 said:


> kassad said:
> 
> 
> > Google Takashi Amano.
> ...


Even the brightest aquarium lights are actually extremely dim to a camera's sensor, that is why camera flashes have to be so bright. In the shots taken without flash, the photographer probably used a slow shutter speed, a large aperture, and/or a high ISO (most likely all three). To shoot more active subjects, which would require a higher shutter speed, or macro subjects, which would require a smaller aperture, a flash is pretty much necessary.


----------



## kassad (Dec 14, 2011)

NYC1225 said:


> kassad said:
> 
> 
> > Google Takashi Amano.
> ...



You probally have a camera currently.   What fstop, shutter speed, and iso does it use when you take a picture of the tank.   Your right you probably don't need a "pro" camera or even flashes.   Those just give you more options.  A basic point and shoot mounted on a tripod will give you pretty good results.   It's been years since I tried aquarium photography (before I was using a DSLR)   I found that my point and shoot mounted on a cheap tripod did well.   I main thing was that the exposures ended up being too long to hand hold the camera and fish blurred if they moved.   I was running a fresh water planted tank with 4 watts per gallon of lighting.


----------



## NYC1225 (Dec 14, 2011)

Pau1 said:


> Another thread on which camera should I buy? Uggggh!



you DON'T have to read this thread or post any replies if you don't want to. . .just making sure you KNOW that


----------



## NYC1225 (Dec 14, 2011)

Natalie said:


> All of those cameras are perfectly adequate for aquarium photography and will be able to take some fantastic photos. The actual camera body makes surprisingly little difference for most applications. Find a store that has all three cameras in stock and play around with them for a while, see which one feels the best in hand and which one has the most intuitive setting adjustments to you, because when you need to change the aperture in the blink of an eye, you don't want to be fumbling around with controls. Also, research lenses and more importantly, what sort of flash system you want to get. Because once you buy a camera body, you are pretty much locked into that brand's gear and accessories unless you want to sell everything and start over. Before you start looking into flash systems and whatnot for aquarium photography however, you should probably play around for a while with other types of photography (i.e., outdoor and well-lit indoor) so you can sort of learn the ropes before you invest in thousands of dollars of gear. Getting in over your head when you're completely new to photography can be extremely frustrating - take your time and learn things at your own pace.



Thanks for the helpful advice!  I think i'll go with the Sony NEX-5N.  It comes with a flash, but then there is another optional flash I can purchase.  It's actually on sale now for $119 which is not bad at all.  NEX Camera Flash | External Flash for &alpha; NEX Cameras | HVL-F20S | Sony USA. . .what do you think about it?


----------



## 2WheelPhoto (Dec 14, 2011)

Welcome to the forum


----------



## NYC1225 (Dec 14, 2011)

kassad said:


> NYC1225 said:
> 
> 
> > kassad said:
> ...




I'm not sure about the settings on the point and shoot. . .I explored the menu a bit and changed nothing but the white balance, that helped alot when it came to taking pics under the LED's and 14K bulbs.  Taking photographs of anything stationary in the tank is pretty easy. . .when it comes to the fish, like you said it is very difficult to take a picture of them and have it not be blurry since they are always moving.  I don't think my point and shoot has any settings regarding the exposure, I know the NEX-5N does, but does it have the right settings and options (in terms of exposure) to make it a decent camera for taking pictures of moving fish?


----------



## NYC1225 (Dec 14, 2011)

2WheelPhoto said:


> Welcome to the forum



THANK YOU. . .for being the only person to say "welcome"


----------



## Natalie (Dec 14, 2011)

Personally I've never used one of those new mirrorless cameras, though apparently they can take superb images, primarily because they have larger sensors than other compact cameras and you can put better lenses on them. One thing that would concern me, however, is that I don't know if they are compatible with off-camera flashes. Perhaps the NEX camera flash could be used as a master to trigger a slave flash placed elsewhere? Not sure how that would work. The goal with camera flashes, in addition to simply adding enough light to the scene to get the shot you want, is to add depth and dimension the photo. This is best done by having the flash off the camera at an angle, so you get nice looking shadows and not the flat look that often plagues shots with an on-camera flash too close to the lens (like the pop-up flash on most DSLRs). Having the flash at an angle will also greatly reduce any reflections from the aquarium glass/acrylic. However, the $119 price tag is hard to argue against... What you might end up doing is getting this camera, mastering the basics of photography with it, and then investing in a DLSR when you feel ready. The lenses on the NEX-5N can also be used on Sony DSLRs, right?


----------



## kassad (Dec 14, 2011)

NYC1225 said:


> Natalie said:
> 
> 
> > All of those cameras are perfectly adequate for aquarium photography and will be able to take some fantastic photos. The actual camera body makes surprisingly little difference for most applications. Find a store that has all three cameras in stock and play around with them for a while, see which one feels the best in hand and which one has the most intuitive setting adjustments to you, because when you need to change the aperture in the blink of an eye, you don't want to be fumbling around with controls. Also, research lenses and more importantly, what sort of flash system you want to get. Because once you buy a camera body, you are pretty much locked into that brand's gear and accessories unless you want to sell everything and start over. Before you start looking into flash systems and whatnot for aquarium photography however, you should probably play around for a while with other types of photography (i.e., outdoor and well-lit indoor) so you can sort of learn the ropes before you invest in thousands of dollars of gear. Getting in over your head when you're completely new to photography can be extremely frustrating - take your time and learn things at your own pace.
> ...



That flash might give you decent results in casual indoor setting but won't work for aquarium shots.   Any flash you use for aquarium shots will need to be mounted off the camera.   Otherwise you end up with a picture of the flash reflected in the glass or water surface.   

The Nex-5n is a fantastic camera but not suited to any sort of flash photography.


----------



## kassad (Dec 14, 2011)

NYC1225 said:


> kassad said:
> 
> 
> > NYC1225 said:
> ...



There is EXIF data recorded with the images.   It will tell what settings the camera used when making the picture.   If your using a windows machine try right clicking on the file, then click on "Properties"  then Click on "Details"


----------



## o hey tyler (Dec 14, 2011)

DiskoJoe said:


> Lenses are cheaper for sony dslr's to because they do not need internal motors like nikon and canon.



This is simply NOT TRUE. Sony Lenses are more often HIGHER priced than the Nikon or Canon. Please don't perpetuate inaccurate information, Disco Joe. 

Here is the is the price of a Sony Kit Lens NEW: SAL1855 Sony DT 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 Standard Zoom Lens for (alpha) DSLR Camera

Here is the price of the Canon Kit Lens NEW: 2042B002 Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS Auto Focus Lens - U.S.A. Warranty

Here is the price of the Nikon Kit Lens NEW: 2176 Nikon 18mm - 55mm f/3.5-5.6G AF-S DX (VR) Vibration Reduction Wide Angle Autofocus Zoom Lens, U.S.A. Warranty

The same holds true for the 50mm f/1.8, and the Canon/Nikon Equivalents being priced lower. Including pro glass.


----------



## kassad (Dec 14, 2011)

Natalie said:


> Personally I've never used one of those new mirrorless cameras, though apparently they can take superb images, primarily because they have larger sensors than other compact cameras and you can put better lenses on them. One thing that would concern me, however, is that I don't know if they are compatible with off-camera flashes. Perhaps the NEX camera flash could be used as a master to trigger a slave flash placed elsewhere? Not sure how that would work. The goal with camera flashes, in addition to simply adding enough light to the scene to get the shot you want, is to add depth and dimension the photo. This is best done by having the flash off the camera at an angle, so you get nice looking shadows and not the flat look that often plagues shots with an on-camera flash too close to the lens (like the pop-up flash on most DSLRs). Having the flash at an angle will also greatly reduce any reflections from the aquarium glass/acrylic. However, the $119 price tag is hard to argue against... What you might end up doing is getting this camera, mastering the basics of photography with it, and then investing in a DLSR when you feel ready. The lenses on the NEX-5N can also be used on Sony DSLRs, right?



Unfortunately the Nex lenses are not compatible with a the Sony Alpha mount.   There is an expensive adapter that will let you use Alpha mount lens on a Nex camera.   I'm pretty sure you can't use the Nex flash as a master flash.


----------



## Natalie (Dec 14, 2011)

Hmm... If that's the case, I would not recommend that the OP get the Sony NEX-5N, simply because of the lack of lens and flash options. An entry-level DSLR would be a much wiser choice for someone who wants to venture into aquarium photography.


----------



## NYC1225 (Dec 14, 2011)

Natalie said:


> Hmm... If that's the case, I would not recommend that the OP get the Sony NEX-5N, simply because of the lack of lens and flash options. An entry-level DSLR would be a much wiser choice for someone who wants to venture into aquarium photography.



OP?


----------



## kassad (Dec 14, 2011)

NYC1225 said:
			
		

> OP?



Original poster


----------



## KmH (Dec 14, 2011)

Original Poster.

(OP) is right there next to your screen name in the thread.


----------



## Ballistics (Dec 16, 2011)

Pau1 said:


> Another thread on which camera should I buy? Uggggh!



Your posting content is garbage. How about you give a little more than complaints and nonconstructive nonsense? You've been here for 4 months, have 59 posts... and are really complaining about a thread like this? You are in the beginners section - If you don't want to see beginner questions, go to the pros section. Better yet, if threads like these bother you... stay away from titles like "New To Photography". You're welcome.


----------



## o hey tyler (Dec 16, 2011)

Ballistics said:


> Pau1 said:
> 
> 
> > Another thread on which camera should I buy? Uggggh!
> ...



I too have noticed that Paul has really crappy posts.


----------



## Ballistics (Dec 16, 2011)

o hey tyler said:


> Ballistics said:
> 
> 
> > Pau1 said:
> ...



Yep. He could definitely benefit from a little humility and a dash of maturity.


----------



## RebeccaAPhotography (Dec 16, 2011)

o hey tyler said:
			
		

> I too have noticed that Paul has really crappy posts.



I noticed it too. Especially on that thread on "Darcy the dog" pretty much belittleing a 14 yr old! I keep my mouth shut most of the time but couldn't on that one


----------



## Ballistics (Dec 16, 2011)

It's one thing to disagree with a post or dislike a picture, but the majority of his posts are snobby remarks that are nothing short of verbal instigations.


----------



## RebeccaAPhotography (Dec 16, 2011)

Yup ur def right there


----------



## bazooka (Dec 16, 2011)

I reported him on the Darcy post.  Perhaps if enough people report, we can get him banned so we don't have to listen to his drivel.


----------



## RebeccaAPhotography (Dec 16, 2011)

Good idea!


----------



## bmusia (Dec 17, 2011)

Why are you here if you don't want to help?


----------



## Proteus617 (Dec 17, 2011)

Sorry for your hijacked thread NYC.


RebeccaAPhotography said:


> I noticed it too. Especially on that thread on "Darcy the dog" pretty much belittleing a 14 yr old! I keep my mouth shut most of the time but couldn't on that one


Pretty amusing that the kid didn't take the bait.  She has some talent and was mature, polite and articulate.  Made whoever posted snarky comments look like even more of an ass.


----------

