# 2nd Shooter???



## tmjjk (Jun 26, 2012)

I am clearly not ready to photograph a wedding.  I do eventually aspire to do this though.  How does one go about becoming a 2nd shooter?  Do I approach a local photographer?  I really would love to have the opportunity... an unpaid gig.  And what is proper etiquette as a second shooter if the opportunity arises?   Thanks


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## CCericola (Jun 26, 2012)

You can usually get a gig as an assistant. You will need to prove yourself before they will take you on as a second shooter. Traditionaly a second shooter is a collegue on the same level as the main photographer. An assistant carries bags and lights and keeps their eyes and ears open and learns as much as they can. If you find a main photographer that usually doesn't have a second shooter you might ask to tag along and take some photos of your own. 

Before you agree to take pictures ask the main photographer if you are allowed to keep your photos and display them. Some main photographers make it clear that assistants and second shooters are on "work for hire" so all the photos belong to the main photographer even if you took them.


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## KmH (Jun 26, 2012)

Yes, a photographer local to Cleveland would probably work better for you than one in another city.

Smart wedding photographers that use a second shooter usually do so on a contract basis. One of the contract terms often included, is that the second has to sign over all the seconds copyrights to the primary shooter. At that point the second shooter needs the primary shooter's written permission to use any of the photos the second makes for the second shooters self-promotion.

Forum moderator Big Mike second shoots frequently.


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## WilliamDSLR (Jun 27, 2012)

Yea, I would get a gig as an assistant by asking around.  Things are tough out there though and weddings are very expensive.  You might be able to (if you trust yourself), to offer a couple of free gigs to weddings who are on a very tight budget and can not afford to pay a huge amount for a really professional photographer.  This way you get great experience doing it and because it's free, there is less pressure on you to 'perform'.


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## tmjjk (Jun 27, 2012)

Thank you.  I do not trust myself to do a wedding alone.  I would love to shadow a good photog though.  Everything I'm learning has been through reading.. Not so much shooting.  And I am incredibly nervous to approach a photographer.. Eek.  I need to grow some... Lol


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## gsgary (Jun 27, 2012)

tmjjk said:


> Thank you.  I do not trust myself to do a wedding alone.  I would love to shadow a good photog though.  Everything I'm learning has been through reading.. Not so much shooting.  And I am incredibly nervous to approach a photographer.. Eek.  I need to grow some... Lol



If you are that nervous wedding photography is not for you


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## tmjjk (Jun 27, 2012)

Wedding photography may not be for me ... Yet.   I am here asking what I need to do to prepare myself and the steps I can take to learn how to shoot a wedding.  Once I've gained the skills I need I'm hoping the confidence will follow.  I am very critical of my work and take the idea of shooting a wedding very seriously.  I have been approached by three different couples regarding weddings in summer and fall of 2013.  Can I be ready by then? I don't know.  I am afraid to commit and have told them this same thing.  The clients have seen my amateur children shots and love them.  I have explained to them that this is a completely different concept.  So yep I'm terrified... But I will overcome it... Once I start understanding and learning more.  And I've come to learn that good photogs are pretty cocky...


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## Filipebr (Jun 27, 2012)

I started as a second shooter (not knowing much at all)  and I was paid $120 for a wedding at the time, it seemed incredible since I didn't have to do much and the photographer let me use the pictures I took to build my own portfolio. I simply asked the photographer if I could tag along and she accepted, we became great friends and she later went on to open a Photography School and put me as a teacher there  

So I suggest you offer the second shooter something in return for his time, yes he is learning but I believe that when he knows he will be paid, you will see a dramatic effect on the quality of the results and he will dedicate to get you more clients as well, since he is not comfortable going solo either


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## tmjjk (Jun 27, 2012)

thanks Filipebr... I am posing the questions as a wannabe 2nd shooter.  I agree... an incentive would be nice, but I would be greatful for the mentoring.  Another catch to this, is that all wedding photographers are not created equal, and I want an amazing example.


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## Filipebr (Jun 27, 2012)

tmjjk said:


> thanks Filipebr... I am posing the questions as a wannabe 2nd shooter.  I agree... an incentive would be nice, but I would be greatful for the mentoring.  Another catch to this, is that all wedding photographers are not created equal, and I want an amazing example.



Oh yes... I guess I was still only half awake at the time, really sorry lol. 

But yeah being a second shooter is great if you can find the right MENTOR/TEACHER <---  To be honest... the photographer I mentioned is not even the best wedding photographer I know in terms of quality content, but she was always friendly and willing to HELP. I went on to be an assistant for this top guy in New York....and problem was although he was friendly, he was very demanding and wouldn't really TEACH or know how to teach. 

So where do you think I learned most? Yep, with the good TEACHER. I am still good friends with both of them btw, I just think my time was much better spent with someone that is willing to teach you know. 

You should approach a photographer that has a good personality or at least that is aligned with your personality so you don't get in trouble later on, and offer to help him shoot a wedding for free and that you just need to learn and get more experience, become his/her FRIEND, not an intern with a contract. Trust me, with a FRIEND the photographer would do anything to help you, even let you use your pictures with your logo and offer to the client. If you two hit it off, ask him if he/she would take you on as a paid assistant and discuss a fee. Some will be cheap skates and just want free help ( been there too)  and you have to be open about it, say you can't keep on helping for free and ask if they would be able to at least negotiate a small salary to help you out. 

Also, when you become confident enough to take on a wedding by yourself, you can work out non-formal partnerships with your mentor, offer him a cut of the weddings you book so he/she can be your assistant as well on the days he/she does not have anything booked, win/win    

Hope that helps!


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## Robin Usagani (Jun 27, 2012)

In reality, most professional wedding photographers only want people who have shot a few wedding to 2nd them.  So you really have 2 options:
1. Help another wedding photographer wanna be who has a wedding gig. 
2. Find a non shooting assistant gig first to build good relation with the main photographer.  You will learn a lot also.  You may have a few opportunities to shoot but keep your equipment simple because you main task is to carry and hold stuff.

The thing is there are many people who want to 2nd shoot for free.  What they dont understand is that it is usually more pain in the ass for the main shooter when they have 2nd shooter especially if the 2nd shooter is new AND the client didnt really pay for the service.  More photos to go through and more than likely the majority of the photos arent that great.


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## morganza (Jun 27, 2012)

CCericola said:


> You can usually get a gig as an assistant. You will need to prove yourself before they will take you on as a second shooter. Traditionaly a second shooter is a collegue on the same level as the main photographer. An assistant carries bags and lights and keeps their eyes and ears open and learns as much as they can. If you find a main photographer that usually doesn't have a second shooter you might ask to tag along and take some photos of your own.
> 
> Before you agree to take pictures ask the main photographer if you are allowed to keep your photos and display them. Some main photographers make it clear that assistants and second shooters are on "work for hire" so all the photos belong to the main photographer even if you took them.



Thanks, that's good to know!


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## Tamgerine (Jun 27, 2012)

Keep in mind pretty much all the photographers you're thinking about contacting receive requests for this type of thing constantly. The majority of the time I get no response, or a "thank you, I already have someone." Right now I focus more on networking as I realized photographers typically look for 2nd shooters that are other photographers that they know. But you'll never know until you put yourself out there. One time I was so frustrated after receiving no e-mail responses that I choose three more photographers and sent this whacked out crazy e-mail full of personality and spunk. Within literally 10 minutes, at 9 at night, I the photographer called me and while he didn't have a paid position, he let me assist on about 6-7 weddings because he loved my energy. So hey, it worked.

That being said, there are several things you should always do as an assistant/2nd shooter, and some things to never do.

Never, EVER hand out your own business cards or promote your own business with guests who ask. There will be people who ask about your services. Before the day starts, make sure the primary photographer supplies you with several business cards to hand out. Any time you get a request or question hand them the photogs business card and say something like, "You'd have to talk to blah blah about that, but he is a totally bodacious photographer to work with."

Always make connections with the other vendors. The DJ, the caterer if available, the wedding co-ordinator if there is one, sometimes the florist is there. A lot of times the DJ is the one with the schedule and who moves the event along. If you're friendly and personable with them, they'll often make sure that an event doesn't happen without the photographers. I always introduce myself and get a copy of the schedule for the main photographer. Every few minutes during the busy part I'll do a time check with them and notify the primary if something is upcoming. 

Always remember that these are not YOUR clients. Aside from interacting with them during the celebrating and wedding, don't have any contact with them about anything business related. Your relationship with them ends as soon as the day is over. There's nothing worse than a primary finding out that a second provided the couple with unedited, unapproved images long before the release of the main photos. 

Most photogs will let you display the photos for your own use. However, if they ask that you do not post the photographs until theirs are released, abide by that. I recently shot a wedding as a second and while I'm itching to release them, those won't even see the light of the internet until the primary gives me the go ahead, and I don't constantly bug him about it.

Make sure that at the beginning of the day you connect on what expectations of you are. Depending on the photographer you'll do more light holding than shooting. Some photographers hate detail shots and you should volunteer to take care of them, but for some photographers styled details are a major part of their portfolio and they don't want to do bridesmaid candids or whatever. Just ask those sorts of things. 

Little things that I like to do, I always remember where the primary sets his camera down because lord knows he's going to wander off to set something up and in five minutes is going to ask me where it is. I also like to choose a lens different than the primary. If they're shooting wide angle poses I shoot candid telephotos. If they switch, I switch. It'll give them a completely different perspective than what they're shooting. I also try to work at 45 degree angles from the photographer if I can. If they move, I rotate around with them. Again, it's a different view. If you're shooting in the same spot with the same lens as them then it's probably not going to make the cut to the client because it's just too similar. 


Those are the really big ticket items aside from being polite and friendly to work with. Don't be afraid to ask questions or try creative things.


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## tmjjk (Jun 27, 2012)

Thank you all!  Super great advice and I am truly grateful! I think option 1 that Schwetty proposed sounds like a good plan.  I appreciate the feedback and the time you took to reply.


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