# American God



## bribrius (Mar 4, 2014)

View attachment 68038


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## tirediron (Mar 4, 2014)

I'm afraid I don't 'get it'.


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## Rick58 (Mar 4, 2014)

Sorry. I'm with John on this one. :scratch:


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## bribrius (Mar 4, 2014)

tirediron said:


> I'm afraid I don't 'get it'.


Most wont.
it has a point. But that is awesome it means it could be worthy of a art gallery!


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## Rick58 (Mar 4, 2014)

bribrius said:


> tirediron said:
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Only if it passes the good art test.


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## limr (Mar 4, 2014)

A hyperfocus on money but the economy sucks so the God is dead?


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## Designer (Mar 4, 2014)

I "get it" but I don't like it.


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## bribrius (Mar 4, 2014)

Designer said:


> I "get it" but I don't like it.


well, it isn't meant to like at all. Quite the contrary. It's a abrupt five minutes setup (haphazardly) equivalent of holding up a protest sign or making a statement..  it is a pretty slamming photo actually and critical photo. But I am curious as to what you "get"


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## Designer (Mar 4, 2014)

To me, it symbolizes American's love of money, and we see the Devil's cat eye hypnotizing us.  

Close?


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## tirediron (Mar 4, 2014)

bribrius said:


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Is that supposed to mean "good"?  

My art education, limited though it has been has always taught me that a picture (or photograph) is worth a thousand words, not that it should require a thousand-word explanation.


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## Braineack (Mar 4, 2014)

Money IS the root of all good, so it makes sense to me.


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## bribrius (Mar 4, 2014)

Designer said:


> To me, it symbolizes American's love of money, and we see the Devil's cat eye hypnotizing us.
> 
> Close?


part of it. Take a closer look at the money and the cats eye and the title..


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## HughGuessWho (Mar 4, 2014)

*&#8220; I always thought good photos were like good jokes. If you have to explain it, it just isn&#8217;t that good. "&#8211;* _Anonymous

_


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## Braineack (Mar 4, 2014)

Designer said:


> To me, it symbolizes American's love of money,



are you suggesting only Americans love money and that there's even something bad about that?


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## Gavjenks (Mar 4, 2014)

bribrius said:


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The times I've gone to photography art gallery shows, I don't remember ever seeing any of the photos with statements written out next to them saying "This is a really good photo, guys. -The photographer"

Even if it does have some epic message, I think you need to try to reframe it to make it a little more obvious.


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## Designer (Mar 4, 2014)

Braineack said:


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Ask the OP.


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## bribrius (Mar 4, 2014)

Gavjenks said:


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I am considering it. Appreciate the feedback. The cats eye comment through me off. Could have been better done. First version the tunnel and light at the end with money was more obvious, but backing off the camera also brought the surrounding in focus. which I didn't want clear. I wanted to concentrate on the center focus. so I could try a different way. But on the other hand, why redo it? (contemplating.....) It doesn't have to appeal to or be understood by a hundred percent. Id prefer the 10 percent that spends more than twenty seconds looking at it and understands it. A good portion of the other ninety percent the photo is being critical of. Isn't there something to be said for knowing your audience?
surely people don't take photos in attempts to appease a hundred percent of viewers.


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## TWright33 (Mar 4, 2014)

bribrius said:


> But on the other hand, why redo it? (contemplating.....)



Save yourself the hassle and do not redo it.


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## bribrius (Mar 4, 2014)

TWright33 said:


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I should post it on a anticapitalism anti religion site. Preferably a European one. For a general audience, I don't expect them to get it. But If it don't fly there, then I know I have a issue.


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## DarkShadow (Mar 4, 2014)

Well I give you credit for not being afraid of trying different things. If you don't try you will never know if it will work or if it's any good.


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## sashbar (Mar 4, 2014)

Looks like a Monetary Mordor


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## EIngerson (Mar 4, 2014)

If I was that money, I'd throw your camera on the ground and tell you I don't like my photo taken.


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## DarkShadow (Mar 4, 2014)

This ^^ made me choke on my coffee and it came out my nose. I hate when that happens.


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## Gavjenks (Mar 4, 2014)

> I'd prefer the 10 percent that spends more than twenty seconds looking at it and understands it.


Do you truly PREFER that? Or are you just willing to accept it?
Would the photo lose something if you were to reformat the same message to be understood by 75% of people instead?
It might lose something (a secret decoder ring is no fun if anybody has one, etc. etc.), but just wanna sort of push you to ask yourself whether that really is the case here.

You mentioned museums for example, early on, which implies more of a popular understanding, not niche. For example, most Pullitzer prize photos are very obvious and forceful in their message by comparison, like this one:
http://worldsfamousphotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/spot_news_-1.jpg
You almost get the message before you even register what the content is.


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## Braineack (Mar 4, 2014)

bribrius said:


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It appears you are not a good photographer nor conceptualizer.


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## bribrius (Mar 4, 2014)

Braineack said:


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why?


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## EIngerson (Mar 4, 2014)

bribrius said:


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I'm not buying it. Deep down inside you really know how bad this photo is. You can't explain a photo into having a purpose.


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## bribrius (Mar 4, 2014)

Gavjenks said:


> > I'd prefer the 10 percent that spends more than twenty seconds looking at it and understands it.
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> Do you truly PREFER that? Or are you just willing to accept it?
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i don't like that photo. i wouldn't want to make that.


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## bribrius (Mar 4, 2014)

EIngerson said:


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it may be bad, but i does have purpose. you don't think it has purpose?


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## EIngerson (Mar 4, 2014)

bribrius said:


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No.


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## tirediron (Mar 4, 2014)

Okay folks, regardless of our feelings on the OPs image, let's keep things objective and refrain from personal comments.

Thanks!


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## bribrius (Mar 4, 2014)

tirediron said:


> Okay folks, regardless of our feelings on the OPs image, let's keep things objective and refrain from personal comments.
> 
> Thanks!


i must of missed something. 
all good im not worried about it. 
The photo you posted is too obvious for me. Like the anarchist photos everyone was raving about a couple years ago. Tear gas, rebellion, s.o.s.

Nice photos, but not my thing. im actually getting tired of that sort of thing. Not that i didn't like them, but everyone does them, they aren't particularly hard to do THEY ARE OBVIOUS.  i want something more. or at least im looking for something more or more intrinsic. something subtle. That doesn't just hit you. i don't want it to hit. i want it to go unnoticed, or sneak up on you as you look at it. Confuse. Maybe offer a revelation to a few.  i want something closer to chess than something closer to chutes and ladders or checkers. im just trying to figure out how to go about it. if i cant do it, then shooting along these lines is pointless for me i should try shooting and sticking to shooting something else. But im trying it. Figure out what works. i have a few other things going on too.  But i don't want to make some simple, god awful cliché obvious for the dumbest of viewers political statement on oppression. Sure, it would go over well. But im not looking to appease anyone.  yeah, i know. How dare i not love a Pulitzer prize winning photo. It isn't that i HATE IT. But it certainly isn't what i want.


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## The_Traveler (Mar 4, 2014)

Braineack said:


> Money IS the root of all good, so it makes sense to me.



Love of money is the root of ll evil.

1 Timothy 6:10


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## JacaRanda (Mar 4, 2014)

I totally get it but I am not sharing with anyone.  Well, maybe for a price.


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## Josh66 (Mar 4, 2014)

bribrius said:


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I'm fairly certain that I know what you are saying with this, but what the hell is up with the toilet paper tube?  

Here is one of mine that I think fits the theme of yours:
Consume (2013102604) | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


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## bribrius (Mar 4, 2014)

Josh66 said:


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lol.

bingo. it isn't a toilet paper tube though. but yep, a tube. i was trying to find a way to make the "light at the end of the tunnel", hence, god. i want to directly put together money and religion. My first thought was using fake money, to give the indication of a falsehood, (its all fake anyway) but then i went with this and went for a mismatched pulled apart look with money.

Apparently im not pulling it off though. i was tempted to throw a bible in too. i need to rehash...
see....
tube
View attachment 68049


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## Josh66 (Mar 4, 2014)

It wasn't hard to tell what you meant with it, I just think it could use some 'refining'.

Why use the $2 bill though?  Two $1 bills arranged so that it looks like they are coming apart in the middle (or just rip one in half) might work better.  Unless there is some significance with the $2 bill that I'm missing.

As far as connecting religion and money, or worship of money, I can think of a few things...

Personally, I think "light at the end of the tunnel" is the wrong approach.  IMO, the "light" should be the truth, not the lie.  The "light" should expose the "lie".  Maybe a tunnel made of money, and at the end "the truth", whatever that might be.


Anyway, I'm not trying to discourage you, just trying to give you some ideas...


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## bribrius (Mar 4, 2014)

Josh66 said:


> It wasn't hard to tell what you meant with it, I just think it could use some 'refining'.
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> Why use the $2 bill though? Two $1 bills arranged so that it looks like they are coming apart in the middle (or just rip one in half) might work better. Unless there is some significance with the $2 bill that I'm missing.
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i liked the 2 for a couple reasons. one is when i looked across the photo the half of the two match the half of the one. so they looked somewhat uniform. But it has that 2. looking across uniform, but still mismatched. i wanted mismatched. Other is when i looked across the photo i saw a count, 1,2 which led me looking for 3. which there wasn't a 3. looked down on the photo for the 3 i saw the hole. i liked the idea a uniform but mismatched 1 and 2 and looking for 3 and it being a hole. This is when i started following it across though visually. when you just look at it, the first thing you see that attracts attention is probably is the hole. I came up with the two after staring at it for a few seconds looking, then i added the 2 and followed the photograph across seeing the difference it made. which, came back to no three but a hole. look in the hole for a three, you have broken looking money. 1,2, 3 strikes your out maybe? im not sure what i saw in that part.

Course now wondering why you are even looking in a hole, and this is where i think i might have dropped the ball on this. The hole doesn't look like a tunnel. i needed another reference to religion too so it would be more deliberate. If i put a religion reference in the upper left hand corner that might work. Then when you look at the photo (not this particular im redoing it now that i think about this) you are wondering why you are looking through a hole or tunnel, which is the first thing that would attract attention. so the eyes should move up and the next spot people would look i would guess would be that upper left hand corner as they follow it from the side across. then they would hit the 1,2 and end up back down the tunnel. Except now they would have a religion reference before they get back to it. That would probably be easier to follow. im still thinking about it , obviously. i cant argue the refining. it needs more eye candy and attraction, to be cleaner. How im going to redo this, is the question...
i sent my 5 minute rough up on here though, got the expected responses. And pretty much what i thought i would actually. The cats eye bothered me, i knew i blew it right then.


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## Josh66 (Mar 4, 2014)

2013102601 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

That's another one where I was exploring a similar theme.  I've been meaning to reshoot it, but haven't gotten around to it yet.  The reasons I want to reshoot it are: it's hard to tell that it is money inside the syringe, and I want to make the 'injection' look more realistic.

The message of that one should be pretty obvious...  (Assuming that you can tell the syringe has money in it.)


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## EIngerson (Mar 4, 2014)

bribrius said:


> lol.  bingo. it isn't a toilet paper tube though. but yep, a tube. i was trying to find a way to make the "light at the end of the tunnel", hence, god. i want to directly put together money and religion. My first thought was using fake money, to give the indication of a falsehood, (its all fake anyway) but then i went with this and went for a mismatched pulled apart look with money.  Apparently im not pulling it off though. i was tempted to throw a bible in too. i need to rehash... see.... tube <img src="http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=68049"/>




Back lighting the money takes away from your intent. You could shoot through the tube and have a statue of Jesus unlit center frame and offset behind him shoot a speed light down on a bunch of money arranged however. 


I did not pull your intent at all from the original image.


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## Josh66 (Mar 4, 2014)

bribrius said:


> The hole doesn't look like a tunnel. i needed another reference to religion too so it would be more deliberate. If i put a religion reference in the upper right hand corner that might work. Then when you look at the photo (not this particular im redoing it now that i think about this) you are wondering why you are looking through a hole or tunnel, which is the first thing that would attract attention. so the eyes should move up and the next spot people would look i would guess would be that upper left hand corner as they follow it from the side across. then they would hit the 1,2 and end up back down the tunnel. That would probably be easier to follow. im still thinking about it , obviously. i cant argue the refining. it needs more eye candy and attraction, to be cleaner. How im going to redo this, is the question...


Do you want the viewer to even see what is "outside" of the tunnel?

A conical tunnel (make a cone, stick the lens inside the big end) would probably get the "tunnel" effect across better.  Of course, then you will ONLY see the tunnel, which may work better anyway.

Maybe instead of a bill split down the middle, have the light coming from a cross burned through the center of the bill.  Just something that came to me looking at your photo after hearing more about your intentions.  That would definitely get both the religion and the "lie" part in there.  [edit - well, the money lie anyway.  If "religion is a lie" is what you want to say, it wouldn't work so well for that.  I think that could be a good photo, it just may not be what you want to say.]

You'll want a little bit of light spillage inside the tunnel too, to show that it is actually a tunnel.  The light coming from the hole might be enough for this.  If not, a small flashlight shining into it from behind the camera ought to do the trick.


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## bribrius (Mar 4, 2014)

Josh66 said:


> 2013102601 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
> 
> That's another one where I was exploring a similar theme. I've been meaning to reshoot it, but haven't gotten around to it yet. There reasons I want to reshoot it are: it's hard to tell that it is money inside the syringe, and I want to make the 'injection' look more realistic.
> 
> The message of that one should be pretty obvious... (Assuming that you can tell the syringe has money in it.)


i actually like that concept. maybe, put more money back closer to the end of the syringe? have a second syringe on a stand next to it with money partially sticking out of it? A guy loading another syringe in the background with money while this one is being injected? just tossing out ideas. That would be a fun one to do im curious to know how you make out.


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## charlie76 (Mar 4, 2014)

I love abstract art/photos....but this one seems too....deliberate/forced/obnoxious/etc IMO

Compositionally lacking as well...sorry just my opinion


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## bribrius (Mar 4, 2014)

charlie76 said:


> I love abstract art/photos....but this one seems too....deliberate/forced/obnoxious/etc IMO
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> Compositionally lacking as well...sorry just my opinion


That's fine thankyou. taken into account. it is deliberate, being forced, and i don't know about obnoxious? where is the obnoxious trying for subtle, subdued,  the opposite? That could be concerning. 
comment is appreciated.


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## bribrius (Mar 4, 2014)

EIngerson said:


> bribrius said:
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> > lol. bingo. it isn't a toilet paper tube though. but yep, a tube. i was trying to find a way to make the "light at the end of the tunnel", hence, god. i want to directly put together money and religion. My first thought was using fake money, to give the indication of a falsehood, (its all fake anyway) but then i went with this and went for a mismatched pulled apart look with money. Apparently im not pulling it off though. i was tempted to throw a bible in too. i need to rehash... see.... tube <img src="http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/attachments/general-gallery/68049-american-god-dsc_0016_242.jpg"/>
> ...


naa. no jesus images they are everywhere and way to obvious. kind of like cross shadows. You have be thinking on the backlighting though. get rid of it or somehow fade it out more into a blur? something to think about. Thankyou. 



Josh66 said:


> bribrius said:
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> > The hole doesn't look like a tunnel. i needed another reference to religion too so it would be more deliberate. If i put a religion reference in the upper right hand corner that might work. Then when you look at the photo (not this particular im redoing it now that i think about this) you are wondering why you are looking through a hole or tunnel, which is the first thing that would attract attention. so the eyes should move up and the next spot people would look i would guess would be that upper left hand corner as they follow it from the side across. then they would hit the 1,2 and end up back down the tunnel. That would probably be easier to follow. im still thinking about it , obviously. i cant argue the refining. it needs more eye candy and attraction, to be cleaner. How im going to redo this, is the question...
> ...


this is more of money is the REAL religion people practice in this country. Nuances to religion being fake as well would be a added bonus.

Thank you for your time. Thank you to everyone else too, even those that disliked it or didn't understand it or what i am trying to figure out. im not really trying to put together a regular likable photograph here. But more of a criticizing puzzle.


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## Josh66 (Mar 4, 2014)

bribrius said:


> this is more of money is the REAL religion people practice in this country. Nuances to religion being fake as well would be a added bonus.
> 
> Thankyou for your time.


How are you with origami?  

A cross made out of money?

Money as the real religion, I get.  I can get on board with that.

Might be hard to pull off (it would require shooting on location or building a set), but communion where the bread is money.  You could pull it off without going to an actual church with maybe a closeup of someone accepting the 'bread'.  As long as it was clear that it was communion, I think that would work very well, and I might use it myself, lol.  A hand and a face - that's all you would need for that.  No set, no background...


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## bribrius (Mar 4, 2014)

Josh66 said:


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i could beat you with that. i have access to a church. stained glass windows, red carpet and all. using a real church for a photo set that's antireligion and money might actually cross that line into sacrilege though


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## Josh66 (Mar 4, 2014)

bribrius said:


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You have to admit that it's a great idea though.  

Personally, I would opt for the hand and face option, background would be of no real importance.


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## bribrius (Mar 4, 2014)

Josh66 said:


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oh no.. the pews, carpet, stained glass. Kneeling in front of the alter with money scattered on the floor in front of them. eating out of a offering plate. put a dog leash on them. That would come off extraordinary. you got me thinking now....And that isn't usually a good thing


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## Braineack (Mar 4, 2014)

The_Traveler said:


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"...you say it&#8217;s the _love_ of money that&#8217;s the root of all evil? To love a thing is to know and love its nature. To love money is to know and love the fact that money is the creation of the best power within you, and your passkey to trade your effort for the effort of the best among men. It&#8217;s the person who would sell his soul for a nickel, who is loudest in proclaiming his hatred of money&#8211;and he has good reason to hate it. The lovers of money are willing to work for it. They know they are able to deserve it."  - francisco d'anconia


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## Josh66 (Mar 4, 2014)

bribrius said:


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LOL.  I just meant that for that "hand and face" shot, the background wouldn't really matter.

If you have a "set", it would be tempting to use it.  I'm sure the church would not be happy though.  But who knows - maybe this worship of wealth pisses them off just as much as it does you.  Anyway, I don't think I would feel right shooting it there without getting approval first (and by 'approval', I mean that they know what the end result is going to be).  Anything anti-religion, they are obviously not going to go for.  If it's merely anti-greed, they may be willing to help you though.

Eating out of the offering plate (filled with cash), altar surrounded by cash, hell - even the dog leashes - all good ideas.  Just not sure about actually doing it inside a church, lol.  I mean, if they're cool with it, why not - but I sort of expect some other reaction when you tell them what you want to do, lol.

I agree though, it would be extraordinary, without doubt.  Just don't step on any toes doing it.


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## bribrius (Mar 4, 2014)

Braineack said:


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this part, is utter bull****.


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## bribrius (Mar 4, 2014)

Josh66 said:


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dont tell em. The lords house is open FOR sinners.


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## Josh66 (Mar 4, 2014)

bribrius said:


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Well, I can't deny that it could be a powerful shot shot, and that there is no better place for it.  If you do it, just make sure you do it WELL.  Don't "half-ass" anything.  You'll probably only have one shot at it, so make sure it's perfect.


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## manaheim (Mar 4, 2014)

Any picture involving currency is innately at risk of being cliché before it is even taken. Any picture that tries to relate money and God... even more so. If you're going to pull off something like this, the picture needs to be something that we've never seen before... and it needs to be well executed. This photo is, imo, neither of these things.


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## bribrius (Mar 4, 2014)

Josh66 said:


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its the set really. you cant be the set. Anything else just wouldn't be a complete frame.. i know the minister. maybe i will just straight out ask. sneaking wouldn't work anyway it would be a couple hours setup to get it right.


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## bribrius (Mar 4, 2014)

manaheim said:


> Any picture involving currency is innately at risk of being cliché before it is even taken. Any picture that tries to relate money and God... even more so. If you're going to pull off something like this, the picture needs to be something that we've never seen before... and it needs to be well executed. This photo is, imo, neither of these things.


the thread topic or the proposed church photo?


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## Virgil (Mar 4, 2014)

This is "art", but photos of guns are banned?? Help me understand?????


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## Mike Lamb (Mar 4, 2014)

I like it.  It's weird and worth staring at.  That's enough for me.  
  Try B & W.


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## runnah (Mar 4, 2014)

Swing and a miss. Sorry ole chap.


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## epeddy1 (Mar 4, 2014)

I don't get it. Where's my weed goggles when I need 'em?


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## 407370 (Mar 5, 2014)

I dont get it but I kinda like the picture. This sort of picture has to be challenging to the masses and thats the bit I actually like. I know there is something going on and in this particular instance I am interested enough to invest some time in trying to work it out. This is a very rare event and it should be taken as a compliment as I am as shallow as they come.


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