# Monolight comparison Bowens, Profoto, or many others... HELP!!!



## bdubbs79 (May 22, 2011)

I'm starting a studio, don't konw much about stobes.. I have some questions that may sound dumb, but i shoot natural light with a 580exII diffusing it only.  So here goes..

How much do I want to spend on my main light and how many watts for, lets say a 200-300 sq ft stuido room ? I'm mainly shooting with the 70-200 and 50mm prime... I want a very controllable monolight, pocketwizard compatible if that is the recommended RF, and just need a few people to let me know what will work for this situation... camera 5DII by the way..  

So does bowens work best with pocketwizard since they make it? Or am I way off..?  I don't have a preference, just stuff compatible with other lights and canon EOS...

Should I get a kit?  Should I get the kit with 1-softbox and an unbrella ? I was watching a lighting tutorial but they don't go over what to get, and now I'm basically set on a main strobe and a hair/back light and even could use the 580 if needed... but really need some strong advice.

What works in a studio, money isn't a problem, just get me on the path for around $2000 give or take $1000.. big range..

thanks


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## ghache (May 22, 2011)

everything you just listed works in studio. just buy whatever you you have the money for, profoto is quite expensive. Bowens are cheaper a bit and they work as well as the profoto, for a 300 sqft sutdio, you dont need more than 300-400 ws


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## bdubbs79 (May 22, 2011)

what about it all working together and with the pocket wizard  shoe?  Is it just as mix and match as your post is sort of leading at?  What about a hair light, you can't use the umbrella for that so if I get a 2 light bowens 500w lights probably get a separate taller stand with a boom to hang another softbox over subject?  If you like specific products on adorama or something, please link or just shoot in some model numbers you use.. thanks for the quick reply, a little info helps huge..


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## Hatch1921 (May 23, 2011)

This might be helpful? I've gone through the same steps... as I'm sure many others a have. 

I want to buy studio strobes, how many should I buy? 1, 2, 10?

Hatch


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## Village Idiot (May 23, 2011)

Where did you get that Bowens make Pocket Wizards?
PocketWizard® - The PocketWizard Story

What's your budget? I'd lover a set of Profoto lights, but I don't have $11,000 to spend. Also, look at modifiers. If you have a decent budget, check out Elinchrom. They make some very good quality lights at an affordable price. If you had VW, Audi and Porsche, Elincrhoms would be the Audis.


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## bdubbs79 (May 23, 2011)

Village Idiot said:


> Where did you get that Bowens make Pocket Wizards?
> PocketWizard® - The PocketWizard Story
> 
> What's your budget? I'd lover a set of Profoto lights, but I don't have $11,000 to spend. Also, look at modifiers. If you have a decent budget, check out Elinchrom. They make some very good quality lights at an affordable price. If you had VW, Audi and Porsche, Elincrhoms would be the Audis.



You know what I'm sorry, i meant they had said the bowens was compatible with the pocket wizard... had a slot of the card... etc.  my bad.  thanks for the info.  One of the guys at adorama is trying to get me into a 300w/s proflex starflash and 150 w/s flashpoint II with softboxes...


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## Village Idiot (May 24, 2011)

bdubbs79 said:


> Village Idiot said:
> 
> 
> > Where did you get that Bowens make Pocket Wizards?
> ...


 
Photoflex is the company that makes the Starflash. Adorama makes the flashpoint. It seems almost weird that they would recommend two separate brands, except the Flashpoint is Adorama's brand. I'd cheack to see is the accessory mount is the same, because Photoflex also sells a 105w/s Starflash monolight and it would make no sense to have differently monolights with different mounting systems.

edit: The flashpoint lights use a Balcar mount and the Photoflex use something entirely different.


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## Big Mike (May 24, 2011)

What sort of Pocket Wizard compatibility are you worried about?  If you are talking about the Plus II units, which are straight up triggers...then you don't need to worry, they will trigger any flash that has a socket to plug in the cord.  

But, if you are currently using the Pocket Wizard TT units with your 580EX flash, and using the TTL functionality...then you need to realize that you can't do it that way with studio lights.  The TT units will work just fine, but only to fire the lights....you'll have to meter and set your exposure manually.


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## bdubbs79 (May 24, 2011)

Big Mike said:


> What sort of Pocket Wizard compatibility are you worried about? If you are talking about the Plus II units, which are straight up triggers...then you don't need to worry, they will trigger any flash that has a socket to plug in the cord.
> 
> But, if you are currently using the Pocket Wizard TT units with your 580EX flash, and using the TTL functionality...then you need to realize that you can't do it that way with studio lights. The TT units will work just fine, but only to fire the lights....you'll have to meter and set your exposure manually.




i want to trigger them with the higher end units... i am putting a reciever on each light and use the transmitter on my canon 5dii..  should i just get alienbees and get their cybersync with it and just get it over with or a bowens system?  What do you like personally for 320 and 160 for main and backlights?  or around that wattage...?


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## bdubbs79 (May 24, 2011)

Village Idiot said:


> bdubbs79 said:
> 
> 
> > Village Idiot said:
> ...



So should I just cancel that group and get a set of alienbees or bowens?  A combo that can work together?  I don't mind the option of the bowens to hook up to the battery if needed outdoors. we are in san diego and alot of people want beach shots, but i just use the speedllite... Like to hear your kit you'd recommend with the pocketwizard or alienbees with cybersync....
Thanks
bw


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## Big Mike (May 24, 2011)

> i want to trigger them with the higher end units... i am putting a reciever on each light and use the transmitter on my canon 5dii.. should i just get alienbees and get their cybersync with it and just get it over with or a bowens system? What do you like personally for 320 and 160 for main and backlights? or around that wattage...?


You want to use the higher end PW units, that's fine...but do need TT/TTL (auto flash metering) functionality?  
Considering that 99.9% of studio photographers don't use it...I'd suggest that you don't *need* it...but it's up to you.  As far as I'm aware, the only 'auto flash metering' studio light kit is the Alien Bee with Cyber Commander...although, simply buying more Canon flashes (430EX or 580EX) would also give you that.

If you just want to simply trigger the lights, you really only need two radio units.  One on camera and one on a light.  As mentioned in your other thread, the studio lights have a built-in optical slave...so once you trigger one light, the other will fire as well.


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## KmH (May 24, 2011)

Adorama doesn't make Flashpoint.

It's their 'house brand name'. Various gear makers put the Flashpoint brand on their gear for Adorama.


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## bdubbs79 (May 24, 2011)

Big Mike said:


> > i want to trigger them with the higher end units... i am putting a reciever on each light and use the transmitter on my canon 5dii.. should i just get alienbees and get their cybersync with it and just get it over with or a bowens system? What do you like personally for 320 and 160 for main and backlights? or around that wattage...?
> 
> 
> You want to use the higher end PW units, that's fine...but do need TT/TTL (auto flash metering) functionality?
> ...



Mike you read my mind.  I was speaking with alien bees today.   they packaged two 800's and 1 - 400 with softboxes and barn door for fill with cybersync for $1400 and change.  I can handle that and i've heard alienbees is good.  Should i save and not get the cybersync?  that would be my only change....  I just need a good back drop and staging for it.. if you want to link something you use or like.. 

thanks


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## Big Mike (May 24, 2011)

I would think long and hard before investing in Alien Bees for your studio.  I own them and I do give positive reviews of them, but I'd still classify them as 'entry level' in the world of studio lights.  If you are looking for something that feels, looks and works more 'professional'...then I'd suggest something else.  But hey, it's not how professional your lights look...it's how professional your photos look.

Maybe I'm missing it...but I still don't know if you want 'auto flash metering' or not.  So what is it?  

Even if you don't get AB lights, the simple Cyber Sync trigger is a good product.  I've found that it's as reliable as a pocket wizard, but about half the price.  
If you do get AB lights and you do want the full auto experience, then you will need the Cyber Commander (on camera) and you will need the Cyber Sync 'Plus' receivers for each light.


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## c.cloudwalker (May 24, 2011)

You don't say if the studio you are starting is a "pro" studio or just for fun. That would make a bit of a difference. A pro does not spend money on gadgets. A pro spends money on what is necessary only. It's a matte of bottom line.

And that's a way of saying, forget the Pocket Wizards and Cyber Syncs... I've worked for quite a while in a studio environment and I'm still hooked to one strobe through a cord   Somehow, I've never had to place a strobe closer to my camera than I wanted it to be just because of the cord and the price difference is enormous. As I said, hooked to ONE strobe. All others are triggered by the hooked up one.



Now, a couple other thoughts. Monolights vs pack lights. It all depends what you shoot and how you feel about the cords running back to the power pack. They each have their positives and negatives. Study them before buying.

Strobe brands. I bought what I used in my first studio because there was a store selling them 15 minutes away. Very useful in case of a problem and I'm in need of a part. I bought the same brand when I planned my second studio because the retailer is an hour away (as close/far away as everyone else) and I had never had a problem with them the first time around. Plus I enjoyed working with the strobes and the company.

Take a look at what is being sold close by. It could save your ass someday. Do you really want to cancel a shoot because your replacement (insert whatever part can break here) takes 2 days or more to get to you? Big bummer.

Just a few thoughts.


Btw, I agree with Big Mike. ABs are very decent units but are not pro gear.

And I almost forgot. It is important to figure out what you want from the get-go because it is not a good idea to mix and match different systems.


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## bdubbs79 (May 24, 2011)

Thanks to both of you.  It will be a pro studio. Why do you consider ab's non-pro? Price point or wattage?  I don't need the wireless triggers so you recommending spending that extra on better lights?  I mean I'm seriously looking for someone to lay out a 3 light set more pro than ab's for under $2k. So if the fact I don't want to spend $10k on lights makes It less pro the. That will Have to do. 

I will Be shooting portraits and products.  I will Be outsoors as well so I didn't mind spending for the pocket wizard.  Opinions vary greatly on lighting So its tough to Get a set of lights purchased before You second Guess everything. 

Thanks


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## Village Idiot (May 24, 2011)

If you're going with packs, I'd recommend more than one pack so you don't have the problem of not having cables long enough to run to your strobes.

If you're doing outdoor shots, you really need to consider when you're shooting and what modifiers you're going to be shooting with. If you're shooting during the middle of the day and want to kill the sun, you're going to want a lot of power. A B800 is only 320w/s and won't cut it if you're shooting under bright sun, trying to bring down the ambient exposure, and shooting with a modifier that offers heavy diffusion. At that point I'd recomment a monolight that's putting out over 600w/s or possibly even more, if not even a pack and head system.

The benefit to a pack is that they generally supply a lot more power for a lot cheaper than a monolight. A 1000w/s pack will let you shoot with 1 light at 1000w/s; the problem starts where if you're adding more lights. 4 lights on a 1000w/s pack will get you 4 lights at 250w/s each and then you're going to be limited on how you can adjust the power going to each light. Unless you've spent something like $7000 on a Profoto D4 pack, you're not going to be able to individually adjust the power going to each light by 1/10 of a stop. That's one of the other reasons I would recommend multiple packs if you're shooting multiple lights.

Either way, there's a sacrific you're going to have to make. It took me a while to get what I did. I ended up with 5 Speedotron 202VF heads, a 1200w/s pack, and a 400w/s pack along with an Innovatronix Tronix Explorer XT battery. I bought everything but the battery used and it came out to about $2100. The only other thing I could use is another 1200w/s pack. I was originally looking at used Profoto gear, but that would have cost me $2,000-$2,500 for one 1200w/s pack with 2 heads used. And even with the purchase I made, that's not including lightstands, modifiers, a case to carry them in, etc... etc... etc...

But even after all that, I still have my speedlights because I believe that there is no one size fits all option out there, at least not for me. I have the speedlight setup when I need ultra portable lights and I have the pack and head system for when I need the power and the flexibility of better modifiers.

Check out Dynalite. They were another company that I was on the edge of going with, but with the price I got the used Speedotron gear for, I couldn't pass it up. And it's like buy a certain type of car; you never notice how many other people own that car until you own one. I've seen everything from shoots by Annie Leibowiz to Playboy shoots being down with Speedotron gear.


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## Big Mike (May 24, 2011)

Alien Bees do offer a decent product at a decent price...but while they are not pieces of junk, when you see & hold one, next to a higher quality unit, you can see & feel the difference.  More importantly, they have a reputation for showing a color cast (inconsistent color temp), especially at lower power levels.  They do have the Einstien light, which looks to be a great upgrade, but they aren't cheap.  They (Paul C Buff) also have their Pro line, White Lightning.


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## ghache (May 24, 2011)

Dont be so picky and buy something that will fit you needsWhat modifier are you going to use? if your so worried about quality just buy some profoto. 

AB, white lightning, the adorama flashes, bowens, all of them will work. get something that has enought power for your needs and you should be good. 
To me a flash is a flash, Most of brand names out there are good. I dont think you will be shooting 10 000 $ contract tomorrow, seems like you never ussed a strobe before.


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## bdubbs79 (May 24, 2011)

Thanks for the info.  I'm going to have to learn more about the pack and head system.  I guess it shares the wattage.  I see a dynolite like this one here...

Dynalite SH2000 Studio 2000 Watt/Second Flash Head SH2000 B&H  its only $550, but no softboxes... So i just grab boxes and it's controlled similarly? 

Lots to digest on this one.  So you have 5 heads on one setup and 2 more on another and speed lights?  what are you shooting?


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## bdubbs79 (May 24, 2011)

ghache said:


> Dont be so picky and buy something that will fit you needsWhat modifier are you going to use? if your so worried about quality just buy some profoto.
> 
> AB, white lightning, the adorama flashes, bowens, all of them will work. get something that has enought power for your needs and you should be good.
> To me a flash is a flash, Most of brand names out there are good. I dont think you will be shooting 10 000 $ contract tomorrow, seems like you never ussed a strobe before.



that is mroe of what i'm looking for in advice but i didn't wasnt to discount what others are saying.  i am not going to be needign the expensive lights and when i' get the shoots and see my qualit ymight be lacking i can upgrade...  how do you feel about that?  I think the 320w/s  x 2 and 1 x 160w/s is fine for what i'm doing... Alien bees it is then?

thanks


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## Village Idiot (May 25, 2011)

bdubbs79 said:


> Thanks for the info. I'm going to have to learn more about the pack and head system. I guess it shares the wattage. I see a dynolite like this one here...
> 
> Dynalite SH2000 Studio 2000 Watt/Second Flash Head SH2000 B&H its only $550, but no softboxes... So i just grab boxes and it's controlled similarly?
> 
> Lots to digest on this one. So you have 5 heads on one setup and 2 more on another and speed lights? what are you shooting?


 
No. That's just the head. Monolights have the power source in them while a pack and head system has the power source in a power pack that you attach the strobe heads to. That often leaves a smaller lighter head on a stand. I have 5 heads that I can share between 2 power packs and the additional Canon speedlights when I need them. I shoot cars and people.

So the packs are not light, they are just power generators which provide power to flash heads. You can purchase kits that make them cheaper. Here is a more accurate representation of dynalite kits that contain packs and heads. You're going to look at $2,000 for a cheaper kit.


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## bdubbs79 (May 25, 2011)

Village Idiot said:


> bdubbs79 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for the info. I'm going to have to learn more about the pack and head system. I guess it shares the wattage. I see a dynolite like this one here...
> ...



2 things.. 1 how do you control the power of the heads if you need more light in a certain area... ?  

and do you like the head system for lets say studio situations with occasional outdoor settings shooting mostly individuals, some groups, and products that are medium to large sizes?  I have tv mounts we sell, we stage a room for installations that look good, and have yet to get great pics .. I need to decide how I want to go about getting lights for primarily a portraiture studio but also something that could work for staging rooms for our installs and for real estate?  I could get away with the middle to lower  end becuase I'm not going to be doing this full time yet.  I'm going to work into my comfort level and if possible decide to be full time on this, but for now, I want to get good at one thing... So that is why portraits and weddings I've done, but this will be my first buy on nice lights..  The product shots i've gotten with my speedllites with natural lighting...


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## Big Mike (May 26, 2011)

I'm not sure about those particular lights, but you usually control the power of the head, from the pack.  I'm not sure if it's just the really old ones that I have, but the power setting only has three options, and it controls all the heads that are attached to that pack.  So if I set the dial to 400, (I think) all the heads would fire at 400...and I could plug up to 4 heads into that pack.

Some photographers (Joe McNally, for example) end up using only one or two heads per pack, and using multiple packs, so that they have full control over each light/head.


I haven't really dug into this for a while...but I think it's safe to say that you can get more total power for the money, with a pack & head system.  Especially if you buy used.  
But I do think that monolights are the more popular choice these days, and that's probably because they are an easier, more simple, system to use.  

Also, I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet...but when starting out with studio lighting...especially when it's portrait lighting...it's often recommended to start with just one light....even some who start out with a full kit, say that they wish they had started with just one.  The reason is that it's often much easier to learn with just one light.  When you starting adding more lights, before you really understand how to use just one) it can get exponentially more complicated.  
This may not be the best advice, as you can save money by getting a multiple light kit...but it is certainly good advice when it comes to learning how to use them.


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