# Nikon vs. Canon?



## chavite (May 20, 2007)

Hi -

I am currently camera shopping and I am debating over whether to buy the Canon Rebel (is digital rebel the same?) or a Nikon (D40, D80, or D200?) 

Does anyone have opinions on any of these models? Major differences, preferences, or anything else I should consider?

It would be greatly appreciated. I am a newbie to the photography game... but I would like a quality camera that takes great shots.

Thanks!!


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## psuphoto09 (May 20, 2007)

Canon has a Digital Rebel, Digital Rebel XT and now a Digital Rebel XTi, (as well as Film Rebels).

I can only vouch for Canon, never used Nikon. As a female (with small hands) the Digital Rebel XT seems very small (I am used to holding a 20D), but it is also nice and lightweight. I prefer the Canons, the menu settings are more natural to me, but Nikon users say the same.

Go look at both brands if you do not already have a brand preference. Figure out which controls (menu and otherwise) feel more natural. The Canon bodies have gotten smaller, Im not sure about the Nikons. One might feel better in your hands. 

It also depends on your price range, the features (not as much as with P&S) but the D40 doesnt have all the features of a D70 lets say. If you know you want to shoot sports you gotta look at how many frames per second (fps) each can shoot. Also, megapixels, the more the bigger the print and better quality.

Hope this helps


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## chavite (May 20, 2007)

Thanks! That helps some.

Other than "preferred controls and feel" does either Brand take a better picture? I really want the quality to be top notch.


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## Iron Flatline (May 21, 2007)

Yes, they are the market leaders, take extrememly good pictures, and will out-last your skill set for years. Please run a search for Canon Nikon on this forum and read the threads of hundreds of others who ask this question every week.


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## chavite (May 21, 2007)

Sorry, not understanding. Which Brand are you referring to? Nikon or Canon? 

I am sure that I will purchase a Nikon or a Canon. Just not sure which one. Which is why I am asking for opinions. The cameras that seem nice are the Canon Rebel (Digital XTi?) and the Nikon D40, D80 and D200.

Thanks again.


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## godfrey (May 21, 2007)

i have a nikon D50 and love it 
the bigger the number the better the camera naturaly, I would love to have a D200  but its out of my price range
in chosing look at the cost of things you may buy in future ie extra lens, flash etc i think nikon can be expencive


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## EOS_JD (May 21, 2007)

Either will take great images. THere's a hair's breadth between them.... Both have features that may be better than the other.....

As Iron says. Click that search button and insert "Nikon Canon"  and read the hundreds of posts on this very subject.


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## Alex_B (May 21, 2007)

hmmm ...


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## EOS_JD (May 21, 2007)

EOS_JD said:


> Either will take great images. THere's a hair's breadth between them.... Both have features that may be better than the other.....
> 
> As Iron says. Click that search button and insert "Nikon Canon" and read the hundreds of posts on this very subject.


 
Maybe I should edit my post.....

It's not the camera that makes the shot.... it's the photographer.


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## Arch (May 21, 2007)

oh my... another Nikon v Canon thread... the answer is short and sweet... either.... which ever feels best when you hold it.


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## RVsForFun (May 21, 2007)

The Holga!


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## Alex_B (May 21, 2007)

hmm ... (does not comment on this sort of thread anymore)


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## Sandra Lero (May 21, 2007)

As I know, the body of camera is very important, but also the lenses you are use it. The difference is bigger among the lenses then the bodies. 
I'm a total amateur and I use Canon EOS 400D. I'm pretty  satisfied  with  it.
Nikon D40 is worse  than  EOS 400D, but I believe that 80D and D200 is a little better.


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## Peanuts (May 21, 2007)

Just for clarification, I don't think the 400D is at all in the same league as the D200.  My understanding is that the D200 is somewhere between the 30D and 5D in the Canon line.


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## Alex_B (May 21, 2007)

hmmm .. doobeedoo ..


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## Sandra Lero (May 21, 2007)

Nikon d200 with a sensor size 23.6 x 15.8 mm and effective 10 Mp is not high above of 400D (almost equal features). That is matter of price ;o)


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## EOS_JD (May 21, 2007)

Don't go just by Mp!!! The D200 is a far better camera than the 400D - Perhaps in the right hands they will produce similar results but the difference is in how they operate.  Just like the 30D is still a better camera than the 400D too..... Even though it has 2Mp less resolutoin!


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## Don Simon (May 21, 2007)

Sandra Lero said:


> Nikon d200 with a sensor size 23.6 x 15.8 mm and effective 10 Mp is not high above of 400D (almost equal features). That is matter of price ;o)


 
So all that determines features is sensor size and megapixels?
Here's an idea - try dropping a 400D and a D200 from various heights, in the rain, and see which stops working first. 


As someone who doesn't use either system, I understand why people like Canon. I understand why people like Nikon. What I don't understand is why everything now has to be reduced to comparison between the two. Thanks to the internet (and before that the opinions of shop assistants) everyone is very aware that there's a big "Nikon vs Canon Debate", and that it matters. It doesn't. Either system offers more than you will probably ever need. I could say the same for other systems but that's a different matter.

Chavite, there's a significant price difference between a Rebel and a D200; I'm not sure why you're considering both. If a D200 is affordable to you, why not a 30D? But anyway, don't worry too much about comparing brands. Your stated requirement was: *"a quality camera that takes great shots"*. Any of Nikon, Canon or anyone else's dSLRs fit the bill there. More importantly, *"does either Brand take a better picture?"* The answer is *NO*. Canon's CMOS sensor is usually said to have better noise control at higher ISOs. Well my dSLR has the same Sony sensor used in Nikons, and images shot at ISO 3200 are for me completely useable. As you go up in price in either system, you generally find better sensors and more advanced image processing. Some cameras will have more advanced metering or autofocus than others... these may help *you* to take a 'better' picture in terms of focus and exposure, but the camera won't automatically take a better shot.

IMO just narrow it down to camera and *lens* combinations you can afford, and then compare them, in your hands, in a shop - ignore the spec comparison charts. Make a decision and buy.


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## chavite (May 21, 2007)

WoW. Nice response. I appreciate your forwardness. Originally, I was actually comparing the Nikon D40, D80 and D200. I shop at Costco and the pricing between the D40 and D80 is pretty close. The D200 jumps up quite a bit after that. 

Problem is that I am the kind of person that does not want to invest money if its not the best purchase, even if I must save more to get to the D200 and wait longer to save.

The Canon came into this because of price. I keep seeing great deals for it and wondered how it stacked up to the Nikon's. 

When I ask people locally, they seem to have a strong opinion on which they prefer and do not vary (Canon vs. Nikon). I was just a bit taken back.

I am happy to receive all of this feedback and it is refreshing to know that either way, there is no significant difference in brands. I will take a visit to a local "smaller" camera shop and really hold and get a feel for the models as so many of you have suggested.

As a newbie, I really do want a camera that will help me to take a better shot as I know that i may not do so well from the get go.

I look forward to other comments and thank all of you for taking the time to help.

Chavite


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## Sandra Lero (May 22, 2007)

I didn't intended to compare very similar bodies and almost equal features of Canon and Nikon products with AFS sensors. I'm just trying to explain that is much better to pay attention on the lenses too. I suggest to invest in EOS 400D and some L family lens, better then Nikon D80 and some kit lens. Both combination has almost same price. 
.
I strongly recommended not to try dropping, leaving on the rain and other various things ;o)
.
In other statements I'm close to agree with ZaphodB.


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## luckyskater820 (May 24, 2007)

Go for your price range, try them all, don't let anyone tell you one is way better then the other, they are all good camreas and all produce good photos.


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## chavite (May 26, 2007)

Anyone have a take on the lenses? For example... am I better buying the Nikon D200 without the lenses that come with it? The place I am looking at has the camera for 1500 alone or 2000 with the Nikon 70-300mm AF-S VR Zoom Nikkor Lens.

I need lens input! How do you know which lenses are worth it. I see lots of 18-55 and 70-300 etc... 

As advanced and experienced photo enthusiasts, any words of wisdom here?


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## Don Simon (May 26, 2007)

Well until someone advance and experienced comes along, I'll have a go 



chavite said:


> Anyone have a take on the lenses? For example... am I better buying the Nikon D200 without the lenses that come with it? The place I am looking at has the camera for 1500 alone or 2000 with the Nikon 70-300mm AF-S VR Zoom Nikkor Lens.


 
I'm sure the 70-300mm is ok, but if that's your only lens it could be fairly limiting. It's a telephoto zoom; you would be lacking any wide-angle and 'standard' focal length. They simplify a bit, but but these sites might help to explain the importance of focal length. (Just play around with the 'mm' sliders).



> How do you know which lenses are worth it.


 
It's tempting to say 'price'. And to a large extent that's true, but it's not the whole story. A zoom covering an enormous range like 18-200mm may cost more than one with a shorter range, but that's because it covers that range rather than because it's necessarily 'better'. A good zoom lens will cost more than a good prime (fixed focal length) lens - although if anything the prime lens will be optically better, the zoom costs more to make and so costs more to buy.

There are some generic lens types which are usually very good - for example 50mm prime lenses, 100mm (or thereabouts) macro lenses, 70-200mm zooms with fixed max aperture (f2.8 or f4)... but generally there's no way to be sure what lens is best when just looking at the specifications. At best you can check tests and reviews, as long as you compare reviews and accept that reviewers are not infallible. And of course there are plenty of folks here who can give you their opinion of specific lenses. Viewing shots taken with the lens can help if you know that post-processing was kept to a minimum. But as with the camera, I would personally prefer to handle one in a shop first. Doing this will tell you something about the build quality of the lens, the focus (auto and manual) and generally tell you how the lens behaves.


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## chavite (May 26, 2007)

Sorry. Am really new at this. So what your suggesting is that the zoom lense is more limiting than the prime (prime meaning fixed length)? 

Do you know why the prime is optically better if they cover the same length?

Thanks


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## Alex_B (May 26, 2007)

Finally I will say something on here ,since this thread left the Canon vs Nikon infancy stage 



chavite said:


> Sorry. Am really new at this. So what your suggesting is that the zoom lense is more limiting than the prime (prime meaning fixed length)?
> 
> Do you know why the prime is optically better if they cover the same length?
> 
> Thanks



A lens is not simply a single lens, but several lens groups in one barrel. And there are a hell lot of things going on to compensate for all the usual optical problems. This compensation is much easier to achieve for one fixed focal length and less lenses are needed. So a zoom lens is a highly complex system of lenses, full of compromises, and usually not of constant optical quality over the whole zoom range.

For those reasons, on average, zoom lenses are have a larger minimum aperture (are "slower"), more complex and heavy, way more expensive, and of poorer optical quality than their prime counterparts.

But with its variable focal length the zoom lens on the other hand is more versatile in that respect.

of course a low quality prime will usually be worse than a very expensive zoom, if its zoom range is not too extreme. But often you find a cheap 50mm prime for 100 USD which is just as good as a 1200 USD 24-70mm zoom at 50mm. And most likely that prime will be much faster (e.g. f/1.8).


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## Sw1tchFX (May 26, 2007)

Alex_B said:


> hmmm ...





Alex_B said:


> hmm ... (does not comment on this sort of thread anymore)





Alex_B said:


> hmmm .. doobeedoo ..



No kidding...

But for the sake of argument, Buy the D80, the D40 is too small and the D200 is too much camera for you.


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## mystar-sky (May 26, 2007)

chavite said:


> Hi -
> 
> I am currently camera shopping and I am debating over whether to buy the Canon Rebel (is digital rebel the same?) or a Nikon (D40, D80, or D200?)
> 
> ...


 
both brands take excellent pictures. Nikon users will say that a nikon is better, and canon users will say that a canon is better. 

go to a quality camera store and try out both. Go through the menus and take pictures. See if the store will possibly upload them onto a computer for you so you see them in their almost full effect. Go with the one that you like better. There is a perfect camera for everyone, you gotta test them before you buy them, instead of going by what people tell you to buy, or tell you what is best.


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## fmw (May 27, 2007)

mystar-sky said:


> both brands take excellent pictures. Nikon users will say that a nikon is better, and canon users will say that a canon is better.


 
Now there is a sweeping statement.  I've been using Nikon cameras since the 1960's and don't consider them superior to Canon.  Nor do I consider Canon superior.  The issue is really irrelevant.

Here's some real advice.  Don't go to an internet forum to get buying advice from consumers of the product.  You will get biased opinion.  You can use the internet to read reviews from independent reviewers who know how to review products.  You can use the internet to compare prices and features.  Then go handle the products and buy the one that floats your boat.  That is the best one for you.

The marketplace weeds out incompetent products.  The surviving products are competent and will get the job done.  If you look at the images each one makes, they will look the same for the most part.  Get the camera that appeals to you, not the one that appeals to someone else.


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## mystar-sky (May 27, 2007)

fmw said:


> Now there is a sweeping statement. I've been using Nikon cameras since the 1960's and don't consider them superior to Canon. Nor do I consider Canon superior. The issue is really irrelevant.
> 
> Here's some real advice. Don't go to an internet forum to get buying advice from consumers of the product. You will get biased opinion. You can use the internet to read reviews from independent reviewers who know how to review products. You can use the internet to compare prices and features. Then go handle the products and buy the one that floats your boat. That is the best one for you.


 
isn't that pretty much what i said? I didn't say anything about reading reviews off the internet but i did say about actually trying out the product.

and I'm sorry, I guess I should have said "most nikon users, most canon users". There probably is a small percentaile that are totally unbiased about which camera is the best, but most out there will tell someone to go with the camera that they use.(if it's an option) Since that is what they consider to be "the best". And what I said really isnt irrelevant issue.


> Other than "preferred controls and feel" does either Brand take a better picture? I really want the quality to be top notch.


The OP had asked if either brand took a better picture. That's why I had to comment on that both take excellent pictures. But you will find that MOST canon users/nikon users will say that their camera takes better pictures, or is a better camera.


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## DRodgers (May 27, 2007)

hope I'm not repeating anything I didn't read the other posts..


I bought my g/f a rebel and I shoot with a nikon d70s I find the rebel nice for auto shooting but not a good choice if you like to shoot in manual the buttons and display just are not up to nikons user features..

I also notice that the 10mp don't make a lot of difference with quality maybe a bit more color then nef raw ..I think also because of the in camera crop factor some quality is sacrificed ..


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## fmw (May 27, 2007)

mystar-sky said:


> isn't that pretty much what i said? I didn't say anything about reading reviews off the internet but i did say about actually trying out the product.
> 
> and I'm sorry, I guess I should have said "most nikon users, most canon users". There probably is a small percentaile that are totally unbiased about which camera is the best, but most out there will tell someone to go with the camera that they use.(if it's an option) Since that is what they consider to be "the best". And what I said really isnt irrelevant issue.
> 
> The OP had asked if either brand took a better picture. That's why I had to comment on that both take excellent pictures. But you will find that MOST canon users/nikon users will say that their camera takes better pictures, or is a better camera.


 
I didn't mean to attack you.  If you felt so, then I'm sorry.  Nothing personal.


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## mystar-sky (May 27, 2007)

not me personally, more so what i said.  but i probably did jump the gun on getting a bit defensive. my apologizies.


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## Don Simon (May 27, 2007)

fmw said:
			
		

> You can use the internet to read reviews from independent reviewers who know how to review products.


 
You can also use it to find reviews from "independent" reviewers who know how to review the right products the right way. They have biased opinions too. The trick with reading comments either from regular forum users or from "independent" reviewers is to understand that none have papal infallibility, and try to pick out the useful information.



mystar-sky said:


> I guess I should have said "most nikon users, most canon users". There probably is a small percentaile that are totally unbiased about which camera is the best, but most out there will tell someone to go with the camera that they use.(if it's an option) Since that is what they consider to be "the best".


 
I wouldn't say "most". More like the most vocal on internet forums. I think most users of either or any other brand are more concerned with creating images and recognise that one size does not fit all. Or rather I hope so. Otherwise I wonder how long before we have 'camera beefs', with the Canon _L Unit _releasing songs dissing _NWA (Nikonians with Apochromatics_)?


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## mystar-sky (May 27, 2007)

> I wouldn't say "most". More like the most vocal on internet forums.


I wasn't thinking of just internet forums. A year and a half ago I was looking for DSLR. I talked to a lot of people (not on the internet) and I noticed that when I mentioned that I didn't know if I should get a Nikon or a Canon, that people immediatly said to get whatever they had because "it was the best". That's when I realized that I needed to do my own homework and figure out for myself what to get. And that's when I decided NOT to get a DSLR and go with something cheaper instead. :thumbdown: I wish I had gone with the DSLR  (although I am happy with my current camera, I still wish I had gone ahead and gotten the Canon XT when I had plenty of money)

I played around with Nikons & Canons at camera shops, and I personally prefered the Canon. It felt more natural to me.

but that's just where I get when I said "most users will say that their prefered brand of camera is better"


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## Alex_B (May 27, 2007)

mystar-sky said:


> I wasn't thinking of just internet forums. A year and a half ago I was looking for DSLR. I talked to a lot of people (not on the internet) and I noticed that when I mentioned that I didn't know if I should get a Nikon or a Canon, that people immediatly said to get whatever they had because "it was the best".



This is luckily one of the very very few forums I have seen where someone asking if Nikon or Canon does *usually not* create wild fights over brands with people defending their choice and blaming "the others" of being stupid idiots.

In particular the regulars on here will avoid to push their personal choice on you. These people will tell you what you apparently already know 

Of course everywhere you find followers of a brand-dogma, but they are rare on here. Which is good, because photography should be about the image in the end


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## Blairc (May 27, 2007)

Whatever feels comfortable to you, thats what I would suggest. Try using the features, such as the dial, shutter, etc. 

I would recommend the Canon, although I have never used a Nikon.

Blair


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## fmw (May 27, 2007)

It seems on the internet whoever knows the least, knows it the loudest.


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## chavite (May 27, 2007)

Hey! Didn't mean to spark a quarrel. I actually don't mind hearing what people "personally" like better, because you hear it from both sides and with a clear reason why, it may help weed out some concerns. 

I did go look today. I personally liked the Nikon d80 and d200 best. Almost there : )

Because the lenses tend to be pricey and the key to nice photographs, people tend to stick with one brand once they start collecting lenses. It would be a bummer to start over again - more investment. So people just get used to the Brand they have and thats OK. I like hearing the opinions.

Thanks again


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## Sw1tchFX (May 28, 2007)

hmmm...


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## bakuretsu (Jun 6, 2007)

I think it's slightly misleading to say that personal preference is the only significant factor separating Canon from Nikon. Canon's CMOS sensors have much better performance in low-light conditions than Nikon's (noise levels even at ISO 3200 on the 5D are workable), and Canon also offers full-frame cameras from the pro-am level to the pro level. This is a consideration for amateurs because they may be committing to a lens system and upgrading their camera body later.

Conversely, the Nikon D40 and D80 have made incredible strides into the marketplace for starting amateurs, offering cameras with real pro features at prices you won't get from Canon. When someone who is buying their first DSLR asks me what I would buy on a shoestring, I tell them to really try to save enough for a D80, because it offers the kinds of features that can satisfy even an ambitious amateur for some time to come.

Once you reach the level where a couple thousand dollars for a camera body seems reasonable, I'd be hard pressed not to recommend a 5D simply because of its full frame, huge buffer, 13 megapixels, and pleasing noise performance up to ISO 3200.

Of course, if you absolutely hate the way Canon organizes their buttons and their menus, perhaps that's a dealbreaker for you. Personally, having used the Canon 10D, 5D, and 1Ds as well as the Nikon D80, I think it's six of one and a half dozen of the other. You just learn where the buttons are; both systems make sense in their own way.

I hope that's remotely helpful.


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## sambru (Jun 15, 2007)

Hello  I am a newbie to this forum and digital SLRs  - I got my feet wet by buying a Nikon D80 I just love it  I also bought a 70-300 mm Nikkor VR to go with the 18-70 mm glass.


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