# Are you seriously that stupid?



## Bram (Feb 14, 2011)

Alright sooooo I hope this doesn't turn into a rant buttt..... we'll see.

This message is directed to the people who are asking if they own copyrights to their images on FACEBOOK!

Are you seriously that stupid? If you own/run a photography business and you post your images on FACEBOOK you do NOT own the copyrights, all the images uploaded to facebook are free to SAVE TO MY PICTURES by anybody that pleases to do so. You do not own any copyrights, do you not read the fine print at the bottom of the page before uploading?
I'm sorry but come n people am I the only one that thinks these people are stupid for asking if they own copyrights to the photos they have uploaded to FACEBOOK?! Even photobucket.


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## Rosshole (Feb 14, 2011)

haha...    what's this all aboot?


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## mwcfarms (Feb 14, 2011)

You still own the photos Bram your just making it that much easier for people to steal them. Which is why you only load small res files. Facebook can be a very useful business tool. Your damned if you use it and your damned if you don't kind of mentality. I think that for small businesses to start out facebook is a great tool. Once you have built a great name and solid foundation for your business, the way you use facebook will change drastically.


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## Bram (Feb 14, 2011)

Yeah you still have the original images and you own them. My thing is that people are complaining about others taking their images off facebook. DURP ofcourse that's going to happen, that's kind of what I was getting at.


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## o hey tyler (Feb 14, 2011)

That's why if you really give a ****, you'll watermark your low res files on facebook. 

It's facebook, you still own the files. What's preventing me from going to your flickr and downloading your images? What's preventing me from going to a protected Zenfolio page and finding the individual image links and downloading them via a resource manager? 

There's hundreds of ways to pirate better quality images. I wouldn't be too concerned with facebook.


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## vtf (Feb 14, 2011)

Bram said:


> Yeah you still have the original images and you own them. My thing is that people are complaining about others taking their images off facebook. DURP ofcourse that's going to happen, that's kind of what I was getting at.


 
This rant occurs every week, I guess today you're the author. Next week someone else. If it gets beyond one page its a troll thread. 
Nothing will change. Spill your guts if you have to. :er:


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## LuckySe7en (Feb 14, 2011)

It amazes me as well.  People will post anything and everything on facebook then complain when someone "lurks" their page.  If you don't want lurkers, turn it to private.  done.


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## Bram (Feb 14, 2011)

I see your point o hey tyler, that's exactly my arguement.

@vtf: My apologies if you come across these every week, as you can see i'm not a troll soooo I don't really get your point there.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Feb 14, 2011)

I posted in this thread.


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## tirediron (Feb 14, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> I posted in this thread.


 
Moi aussi.


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## KmH (Feb 14, 2011)

Bram said:


> Are you seriously that stupid? If you own/run a photography business and you post your images on FACEBOOK you do NOT own the copyrights, all the images uploaded to facebook are free to SAVE TO MY PICTURES by anybody that pleases to do so. You do not own any copyrights, do you not read the fine print at the bottom of the page before uploading?


Talk about the pan calling the kettle black. *None* of what you state here is accurate.

Login | Facebook


> You own all of the content and information you post on Facebook...


 
Owning/running a business has nothing to do with copyright ownership.

Facebook's TOS is about use licensing, not copyright.


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## o hey tyler (Feb 14, 2011)

Bram said:


> I see your point o hey tyler, that's exactly my arguement.
> 
> @vtf: My apologies if you come across these every week, as you can see i'm not a troll soooo I don't really get your point there.



Lol, no that isn't your argument. Your argument is that you DON'T OWN THE COPYRIGHT after you upload the file... But you do. 

BRB FACEBOOK FAQ

*Do I retain the copyright and other legal rights to material I upload to Facebook?*
_Yes, you retain the copyright to your content. When you upload your content, you grant us a license to use and display that content. For more information please visit our Statement of Rights and Responsibilities, which contain information about intellectual property, as well as your privileges and responsibilities as a Facebook user._

So, my question to you, Bram: Are you seriously that stupid?:greenpbl:


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## Bram (Feb 14, 2011)

KmH said:


> Bram said:
> 
> 
> > Are you seriously that stupid? If you own/run a photography business and you post your images on FACEBOOK you do NOT own the copyrights, all the images uploaded to facebook are free to SAVE TO MY PICTURES by anybody that pleases to do so. You do not own any copyrights, do you not read the fine print at the bottom of the page before uploading?
> ...


 

How so? If you post your images, somebody else saves them and takes them. In no way can you sue them for stealing your photos due to the fact that you don't own them. You may have the originals but if they took them from facebook, nobody owns them, facebook does.


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## Bram (Feb 14, 2011)

o hey tyler said:


> Bram said:
> 
> 
> > I see your point o hey tyler, that's exactly my arguement.
> ...


 
As stated before byt Bigtwinky:

IT IS BETTER TO BE SILENT AND THOUGHT OF A FOOL, THEN TO OPEN MY MOUTH AND REMOVE ALL DOUBT.


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## o hey tyler (Feb 14, 2011)

Bram, be careful. The level of fail is reaching critical mass.


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## Bram (Feb 14, 2011)

Hahaha I guess the failboat is about to leave with captain Bram in charge.


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## vtf (Feb 14, 2011)

vtf said:


> Bram said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah you still have the original images and you own them. My thing is that people are complaining about others taking their images off facebook. DURP ofcourse that's going to happen, that's kind of what I was getting at.
> ...


 
I stand by my statement, about 10 more post and we're trolling. But rant insanely if you must. Oh, 9 more.


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## Bram (Feb 14, 2011)

You stand by your statement of me being a troll with this being my 1,300th post?


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## Village Idiot (Feb 14, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> I posted in this thread.


 
You did not.


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## Village Idiot (Feb 14, 2011)

Bram said:


> You stand by your statement of me being a troll with this being my 1,300th post?


 
Yes. Anyone with less posts than me is a troll.


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## vtf (Feb 14, 2011)

Yep, 7 alone on the first page. All quality, well thought out arguments.


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## o hey tyler (Feb 14, 2011)

Currently trolling in this thread


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## KmH (Feb 14, 2011)

Bram said:


> How so? If you post your images, somebody else saves them and takes them. In no way can you sue them for stealing your photos due to the fact that you don't own them. You may have the originals but if they took them from facebook, nobody owns them, facebook does.


Nope, that's completely wrong and you're nowhere close to understanding.

It's unfortunate you don't get it. Perhaps reading the Facebook TOS I provided the link to again would help.

If someone steals your car, you still own it though it's no longer in your posession and the person who stole the car is a thief.


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## Bram (Feb 14, 2011)

Good analagy.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Feb 14, 2011)

Village Idiot said:


> Bitter Jeweler said:
> 
> 
> > I posted in this thread.
> ...


 
Did so!

Wanna fight about it?!


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## Bram (Feb 14, 2011)

TROLL!


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## Bitter Jeweler (Feb 14, 2011)

Bram said:


> TROLL!


 
You finally went public with an admission of guilt. :thumbup:


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## Bram (Feb 14, 2011)

Touche. in no way am I a troll though. :meh:


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## GooniesNeverSayDie11 (Feb 14, 2011)

Bram, you really need to read up on copyright. Maybe this analogy will help you understand the absurdity of your  previous statements. If I bootlegged The Beatles White album off of the internet, do I own the copyright because I was clever enough to steal it? If so, I am one rich mofo.


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## Bram (Feb 14, 2011)

No ofcourse not, I was never saying that th person who stole the images had copyrights to the images. My apologies if that's how it came off. 
What I meant was that if I would post my photos on FB, I would no longer own the rights to the images, the images are free for people to take. Somebody was complaining that somebody had saved thei photos off of FB. I was proven wrong by KMH who stated the copyrights to FB.


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## mwcfarms (Feb 14, 2011)

I am seriously disappointed at the lack of drama in this thread. How come your all acting like grown ups? :greenpbl: Oh well I guess I can go watch The Young & The Restless.


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## MonicaBH (Feb 14, 2011)

I am posting here solely to increase my post count to like 26.

Heaven forbid they think I'm a troll... :meh:


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## GooniesNeverSayDie11 (Feb 14, 2011)

mwcfarms said:


> I am seriously disappointed at the lack of drama in this thread. How come your all acting like grown ups? :greenpbl: Oh well I guess I can go watch The Young & The Restless.


 i'm sorry, everytime you post now, I just see your "sexy librarian" self-portrait instead of words. Kinda how garfield looks at objects and sees cheeseburgers or lasagna instead :lmao:


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## o hey tyler (Feb 14, 2011)

I troll harder than anyone else here.


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## j-dogg (Feb 14, 2011)

LuckySe7en said:


> It amazes me as well.  People will post anything and everything on facebook then complain when someone "lurks" their page.  If you don't want lurkers, turn it to private.  done.



this is what I did. Photo albums are only accessible to friends. :thumbup:


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## Village Idiot (Feb 14, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> Village Idiot said:
> 
> 
> > Bitter Jeweler said:
> ...


 
I refuse to acknowledge your alleged involvement in this thread, so it didn't happen. :er:


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## Village Idiot (Feb 14, 2011)

mwcfarms said:


> I am seriously disappointed at the lack of drama in this thread. How come your all acting like grown ups? :greenpbl: Oh well I guess I can go watch The Young & The Restless.


 
*sigh* I could drop trow and run around with my wang flailing about, but I see how that helps us to accomplish anything at this point in time.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Feb 14, 2011)

Bram said:


> What I meant was that if I would post my photos on FB, I would no longer own the rights to the images, .


 

...and what you really mean is "If you post your fotos to facebook, you would no longer have *control *of the images use." :er:


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## Ryan L (Feb 14, 2011)

Village Idiot said:


> *sigh* I could drop trow and run around with my wang flailing about, but I see how that helps us to accomplish anything at this point in time.


 
Whoa......., your trolling with live bait!! Risky maneuver! lol

:hail:


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## Shawnda (Feb 14, 2011)

Bram said:


> KmH said:
> 
> 
> > Bram said:
> ...


 
Bram - the question still comes back to ... "who's stupid here?" 

Your comment is that you want to sue ... if you really cared a rats ass about the stuff that you are putting on facebook, you would make a really large water mark on the photo and make the opaque very low.  Also, in the metadata of the picture - you would copy right and put all of your information in the metadata.

But eh .... it's not every one else's job to protect your belongings, but YOURS!


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## Bram (Feb 14, 2011)

Shawnda good call except I wasn't the one complaining about my photos getting stolen. 
http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...rum-photo-gallery/235268-i-am-fuming-mad.html
I'm smarter then that.


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## Shawnda (Feb 14, 2011)

Bram said:


> Shawnda good call except I wasn't the one complaining about my photos getting stolen.
> http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...rum-photo-gallery/235268-i-am-fuming-mad.html
> I'm smarter then that.


 
She wasn't complaining about her photos being stolen.  She was complaining that someone was stealing her clients.  There is a huge difference.  Maybe you should re-read the post again to get the true intent behind her rant.  She has a justifible rant to make.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Feb 14, 2011)

Bram said:


> Shawnda good call except I wasn't the one complaining about my photos getting stolen.
> http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...rum-photo-gallery/235268-i-am-fuming-mad.html
> I'm smarter then that.


How does that thread relate to what you are taking issue to here?


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## RauschPhotography (Feb 14, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> Bram said:
> 
> 
> > Shawnda good call except I wasn't the one complaining about my photos getting stolen.
> ...



...I was wondering the same thing myself.


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## Bram (Feb 14, 2011)

My Mistake!! Wrong thread! LOL :lmao:
I'll have to find it. 

There was a guy who was complaining about somebody taking his photos from FB and saving them without him paying the OP.
The OP claims he had all the copyrights to the photos.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Feb 14, 2011)

Bram said:


> My Mistake!! Wrong thread! LOL :lmao:
> I'll have to find it.
> 
> There was a guy who was complaining about somebody taking his photos from FB and saving them without him paying the OP.
> The OP claims he had all the copyrights to the photos.


 
The OP does have copyright over the image.
But like I said, if you post your image on the intertubes, you no longer have CONTROL of the image.


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## New Hampshire (Feb 14, 2011)

Perhpas you should quit while your...well, behind.  Far far behind.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Feb 14, 2011)

:lmao:


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## OrionsByte (Feb 14, 2011)

Bram said:


> My Mistake!! Wrong thread! LOL :lmao:
> I'll have to find it.
> 
> There was a guy who was complaining about somebody taking his photos from FB and saving them without him paying the OP.
> The OP claims he had all the copyrights to the photos.



Are you talking about this thread from another forum, that Village Idiot linked to in the post that you linked to?


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## Bram (Feb 14, 2011)

THANK YOU OrionsBte. I do believe that's the one.


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## Boomn4x4 (Feb 14, 2011)

Bram, you are partially right... mostly wrong.

When you put your photos on Facebook, you still own the license.  The photo is yours to do with as you choose.  You can still sell the image as your own.  By posting on Facebook, you are not giving up your ownership.

However, by putting your images on Facebook, you are permitting Facebook from subleasing your content that you share (per you privacy settings).  Any content you share becomes a public license sub-leased by Facebook, dependent on how you share it.  If you "share" it with "everyone" then everyone can use that image anyway they so choose.  If you share it with "Friends" than only your friends may use it anyway they choose.  If you set it as "Private" then you do not grant Facebook to sub-license the content to anyone.

You can break Facebook's right to distirbute, transfer, and sublicense your content by deleting the content from facebook  or changing your privacy settings.  Once you do so, any license Facebook gave out on your content is void.

For example, if you share an image on facebook with "everyone", I can go and copy that image, print it on a sweatshirt and sell it freely.  If you delete that image or make the image private, my license to use the image freely is terminated.

At no point do you give up your ownership, but as long as you are sharing the image, you are sharing ownership.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Feb 14, 2011)

I believe, if you change the license, the new terms are only in effect from that date forward. For instance, you had images on Flickr tagged under the Creative Commons License, which grants use freely as long as the copyright holder is credited. People then made use of your images for publication. Then you change the license to All Rights Reserved, you cannot go back and ask the people prior to the change to stop using your images.


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## Buckster (Feb 14, 2011)

Boomn4x4 said:


> Any content you share becomes a public license sub-leased by Facebook, dependent on how you share it. *If you "share" it with "everyone" then everyone can use that image anyway they so choose.*
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


I had no idea that this was the case, and I'm not seeing it spelled out so clearly in their FAQs.  Perhaps you can point me to where it says that by posting an image to Facebook, I grant the entire world a license to use it however they wish, including printing it on anything they want and selling it.

I understand that Facebook (as all such services) gets a license from me to display it, because that's the whole purpose of me posting it to THEIR web site - to have THEM display it on THEIR web site.  So they have to be legally covered to do that, and that goes for displaying it world-wide.  I totally get that.

What I'm not seeing is where that transfers out to the rest of the print and merchandising world for EVERYONE on the planet.

Help me understand that please?


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## Overread (Feb 14, 2011)

You'll see a clause like that in Photobucket (for open accounts), but you won't see one in flickr nor Facebook (facebook actually tried to and the community backfired like crazy against them). 

So in short yes I can make a T-shirt from any photo on the net - and unless I used the photo from a site granted me a licence or held a contract with the photographer/owner of the images copyright, then I can be sued (for how much and under what terms will vary depending on the country and if any registration is needed).


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## bentcountershaft (Feb 14, 2011)




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## Croissant Seven (Feb 15, 2011)

I've been stealing you guys' photos like CRAZY and selling them in Malaysia. Them fools couldn't care 3 ishts about "copyrights", "watermarks", "lawsuits", or "ethics", but those shifty little crooks never reveal their sources.

Look for your images on shirts on a table in a flea market near you REAL soon.


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## Edsport (Feb 15, 2011)

Bram before you call anyone stupid you should know what you're talking about. Even though you upload photos to facebook don't mean facebook owns them. You are only giving them permission to allow the photos to be shown on facebook but facebook cannot take these photos and do what they want and neither can anyone else. You are not giving up copyrights to anything. If you see a photo of yours in someone elses status you can report it to facebook and they will remove the photo from their status, if they do it a second time they will probably be banned and would have to re-register with a new account. I've seen it done...


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## Bram (Feb 15, 2011)

Edsport said:


> Bram before you call anyone *stupid* you should know what you're talking about. Even though you upload photos to facebook *don't* mean facebook owns them....


 
Do you mean, *doesn't*?


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## Rekd (Feb 15, 2011)

Bram said:


> Edsport said:
> 
> 
> > Bram before you call anyone *stupid* you should know what you're talking about. Even though you upload photos to facebook *don't* mean facebook owns them....
> ...



Hey Bran, methinks someone who brings site-wide LOL upon themselves (like you have) has very little room to correct someone's mis-use of a contraction. Mkthks.


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## Sachphotography (Feb 15, 2011)

Not to burst anybodies bubble but Facebook change a couple days ago. You can no longer save images from Facebook that are not yours......................... no more right click "save as" 





So in reality...... This entire thread is now pointless....... LOL...


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## Overread (Feb 15, 2011)

But but every image is auto saved onto your harddrive before you view a webpage anyway  

So you just have to go and find it (ok granted there Vista and Win 7 make things a lot harder than Xp by moving the darn folders around...). Or I can press the fearsome PrtScr/SysRq button


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## Sachphotography (Feb 15, 2011)

Overread said:


> But but every image is auto saved onto your harddrive before you view a webpage anyway
> 
> So you just have to go and find it (ok granted there Vista and Win 7 make things a lot harder than Xp by moving the darn folders around...). Or I can press the fearsome PrtScr/SysRq button



Not completely true..... It does save a cache but not in a format that is easily usable. It does not save every image. If it did you would fill up your cache in about 30 sec. Ether way it is almost impossible to get a good quality picture off of facebook. What you do get is a crappy low res pictures that is useless... Even a PRTSCR shot would be crap. great you have a 100 X 200 picture..... like that going to do anything good LOL


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## Bram (Feb 15, 2011)

Well then...


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## Buckster (Feb 15, 2011)

Overread said:


> But but every image is auto saved onto your harddrive before you view a webpage anyway
> 
> So you just have to go and find it (ok granted there Vista and Win 7 make things a lot harder than Xp by moving the darn folders around...). Or I can press the fearsome PrtScr/SysRq button


Or use the sweet Snipping Tool.


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## Buckster (Feb 15, 2011)

Sachphotography said:


> Overread said:
> 
> 
> > But but every image is auto saved onto your harddrive before you view a webpage anyway
> ...


Sometimes that's all that's needed for web page displays or even brochures, as long as they're not full page.  And with Genuine Fractals and some photoshop prowess, you could actually produce some pretty good results.


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## Overread (Feb 15, 2011)

Yeah we as photographers often get hung up on image quality - go look at some people using photos and you'll quickly see that image quality is often the least of their concerns (heck most of the shots in my local estate agent look like a point and shoot job)


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## MichiganFarts (Feb 15, 2011)

Bram said:


> Edsport said:
> 
> 
> > Bram before you call anyone *stupid* you should know what you're talking about. Even though you upload photos to facebook *don't* mean facebook owns them....
> ...




For someone whose quite adamant about not being a troll, you're sure learning fast!



Bram said:


> Good analagy.



Especially for someone who doesn't know how to spell analogy.  And guess what?  You had spell check to help you...don't is really a word at least.

Kudos for joining the troll family, we welcome you with open arms.


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## Bend The Light (Feb 15, 2011)

Sachphotography said:


> Not to burst anybodies bubble but Facebook change a couple days ago. You can no longer save images from Facebook that are not yours......................... no more right click "save as"
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well, you can. There's the "Download this image in High resolution" option on the bottom left of the new image browser thing. Actually easier than "right-click..Save As"

The only thing you can do is:

1. not care about the taking your pictures (most of mine are not good enough to worry about yet)

2. Only upload low-res copies with watermarks (which they'll still download if they want it, but "no problem, it's only a poor copy".

3. Don't use Facebook (or any other site) for pictures...if someone wants them, they will get them.


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## o hey tyler (Feb 15, 2011)

Sachphotography said:


> Not to burst anybodies bubble but Facebook change a couple days ago. You can no longer save images from Facebook that are not yours......................... no more right click "save as"
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Not having "Right Click > Save As" doesn't stop me (or anyone else who's got a bit of web "know how") from downloading images off facebook. Not saying that I do download images off of Facebook, but it's not really difficult to get to them and open them in a new tab and download the image directly.


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## o hey tyler (Feb 15, 2011)

Bend The Light said:


> Sachphotography said:
> 
> 
> > Not to burst anybodies bubble but Facebook change a couple days ago. You can no longer save images from Facebook that are not yours......................... no more right click "save as"
> ...



That's only if the poster of the image chose to have it download in high resolution. I have Lightroom set up so that it uploads all of my photos at 750px on the longest edge, therefore no one can get a larger image than 750px, and they can't do much with that. 

I'm not sure if Lightroom is capable of handing larger files to facebook and have them up for "high res download" but I don't really care to take the chance.


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## bigtwinky (Feb 15, 2011)

> As stated before byt Bigtwinky:
> 
> IT IS BETTER TO BE SILENT AND THOUGHT OF A FOOL, THEN TO OPEN MY MOUTH AND REMOVE ALL DOUBT.


 
Seriously, I think you need to brush up on basic comprehension skills. I believe you were the one in another thread to whom I replied "you failed at reading comprehension"? (or something similar).

You seem to not understand the copyright laws and what facebook does.

And then, to top it off, you said that I stated the above? I never said that. 

Don't missquote people, don't mislead people.


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## Bram (Feb 15, 2011)

You said in another thread it is better to be silent and be thought of a fool then to open ones mouth and rmove all doubt. I opted to change the "ones" to "MY". Not misquoting.

Why is this thread still going? I get it I am an idiot, i'm pretty sure everybody knows by now?


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## bigtwinky (Feb 15, 2011)

I did not say that in any thread.  You missquoted someone.  You may have seen that in a thread where I also posted, but it was not me. :meh:


Those words are way too smart for me.  :er:


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## kundalini (Feb 15, 2011)

Bram said:


> You said in another thread it is better to be silent and be thought of a fool then to open ones mouth and rmove all doubt. .......


Get your facts straight, kid.

That would've been me. Post #12.

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...llery/235268-i-am-fuming-mad.html#post2168767





*EDIT:*
I just want to make sure everyone knows that I was quoting Abraham Lincoln.  I'm not smart enough either to put words together like that and come up with a brilliant thought.


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## Warren Peace (Feb 15, 2011)

I take photos for fun and post them on facebook.  If people steal them, that is fine with me.  I have no intentions on selling them.  Whether you post on a forum, or on facebook, your images can be taken.  If you dont want them stolen, dont post them. 
  Most photographers are just overpriced egotrips anyways. :er:


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## Bram (Feb 15, 2011)

Well well my apologies then big guy.


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## Buckster (Feb 15, 2011)

Warren Peace said:


> I take photos for fun and post them on facebook. If people steal them, that is fine with me. I have no intentions on selling them. Whether you post on a forum, or on facebook, your images can be taken. If you dont want them stolen, dont post them.
> Most photographers are just overpriced egotrips anyways. :er:


What do you do for a living?


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## o hey tyler (Feb 15, 2011)

Buckster said:


> Warren Peace said:
> 
> 
> > I take photos for fun and post them on facebook. If people steal them, that is fine with me. I have no intentions on selling them. Whether you post on a forum, or on facebook, your images can be taken. If you dont want them stolen, dont post them.
> ...



Buck, I was thinking the exact same thing.


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## Edsport (Feb 16, 2011)

Sachphotography said:


> Not to burst anybodies bubble but Facebook change a couple days ago. You can no longer save images from Facebook that are not yours......................... no more right click "save as"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 You can still "save as". Only sometimes it won't let you save as but close out and go back and it will probably let you "save as". If you want, you can go back to the old way of seeing the photos just by pressing F5 and then you can save no problem...


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## Edsport (Feb 16, 2011)

Bram said:


> Edsport said:
> 
> 
> > Bram before you call anyone *stupid* you should know what you're talking about. Even though you upload photos to facebook *don't* mean facebook owns them....
> ...


 NO, I meant don't...


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## Rekd (Feb 16, 2011)

Edsport said:


> Bram said:
> 
> 
> > Edsport said:
> ...



LoL.


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