# I want to learn about light



## MichelleP (Oct 21, 2014)

I would like recommendations on the best ways to learn about light.  Books, exercises, whatever you've got. Outside, I understand open shade is the best. I look for the edge of shade closest to the open sky.  I take mostly kids and family shots. I'm learning to pay attention to the direction of light and how to use things to reflect it. Any suggestions about the best ways to learn about light?


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## Derrel (Oct 21, 2014)

MichelleP said:


> I would like recommendations on the best ways to learn about light.  Books, exercises, whatever you've got. Outside, I understand open shade is the best. I look for the edge of shade closest to the open sky.  I take mostly kids and family shots. I'm learning to pay attention to the direction of light and how to use things to reflect it. Any suggestions about the best ways to learn about light?



You already know some of the secrets professionals have known for decades. Here is a book that I know a person like you can use to learn a lot from. There are *a few key words* in your post that make me know that you will understand this book's lessons.

Monte Zucker's Portrait Photography Handbook: Monte Zucker: 9781584282136: Amazon.com: Books


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## Gary A. (Oct 21, 2014)

Your title touches upon an advance photographic foundation.

I found my photography really improved when I started to see the light. Look at the light, not what is being reflected off your subject ... look hard at the light which is hitting the subject. See that light ... embrace the light ... even taste the light. Seek out and recognize the differences in light.

Read, attend classes, watch videos and podcasts, find a mentor ... just remember that it is all and ultimately up to your vision to see what others suggest and move up the photographic learning curve.

Everyday, think about light and look at the light. It is probably better in the beginning not to use a camera. Look at the clean light hitting the subject. See that light, quantify that light, previsualize in your mind images, photographs captured with that light. When you learn to look at light, you will soon find yourself looking for light.

Don't ever forget that light is everything (period).

Good Luck and Good Shooting,
Gary


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## Derrel (Oct 21, 2014)

The things you will learn from Zucker's instruction are how to pose people, and what angles to shoot from. Basic human body poses have remained the same for centuries. The camera placements, and the way the people are posed in relation to both the light, and the camera's position, are the things Zucker's work is really focused on. For families and couples and individuals, just knowing the basic camera positions, and the views of the face, will really help your work.

We see a lot of full face and square-shouldered stuff all over the internet, because cheap stock photos are everywhere. Some of the stuff you'll find on the world wide web and on YouTube is really not that helpful, and some of it is downright harmful. A week ago I was watching this video and a guy was showing a really crappy split lighting setup, and claiming it was "Rembrandt lighting".


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## Village Idiot (Oct 22, 2014)

MichelleP said:


> I would like recommendations on the best ways to learn about light.  Books, exercises, whatever you've got. Outside, I understand open shade is the best. I look for the edge of shade closest to the open sky.  I take mostly kids and family shots. I'm learning to pay attention to the direction of light and how to use things to reflect it. Any suggestions about the best ways to learn about light?



What do you know about the technical side of photography? Lighting can open up a whole new creative world, but it takes some technical know how as well and isn't generally as easy as using the green box mode, AKA: Instaphotographer mode.

You should know the basics of being able to operate your camera in manual mode and adjusting aperture, ISO, and shutter speed to get a correct exposure and how to then adjust those settings to expose to the left or right. Then you need to learn about how flashes work and the technical side to them, otherwise it becomes a guessing game of constantly moving lights around and fiddling with setting to get what you hope is a good photo, rather than setting the lights where you want them and changing the camera settings to get the photo you're envisioning.


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## beachrat (Oct 22, 2014)

How refreshing to see a thread like this,someone interested in learning the single most important aspect of photography.
I don't have enough experience to start dispensing internet advice,but Gary A and Derrel gave you a good start for sure.


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## CameraClicker (Oct 22, 2014)

Two more suggestions:  
-- Visit a bricks & mortar art gallery, spend time enjoying the art and observe poses, composition, and light.
-- A good book is Light Science and Magic.  Light Science and Magic: An Introduction to Photographic Lighting: Fil Hunter, Steven Biver, Paul Fuqua: 9780240812250: Books - Amazon.ca


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## MichelleP (Oct 22, 2014)

Thank you all! I shoot in manual - just within the last 6 months. I'm trying to learn where to meter to get the best exposure. I am trying to observe light in my everyday doings, but I'm looking for more insight in what to look for. Like I will see late afternoon light that I think is awesome, but when I place a subject there and take the pic it's still more harsh than i thought - that's just an example. I will check out those books thanks!


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## MichelleP (Oct 22, 2014)

Also I have not yet dug into flash photography. I have a speed light but don't know how to use it in manual yet. It's on my list of things to learn but I'm a busy mom and just now feeling comfortable in manual.


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## Big Mike (Oct 22, 2014)

> I would like recommendations on the best ways to learn about light


My first thought is to recommend the book 'Light: Science & Magic'.  Someone already linked to it, so I won't bother.

It's a very technical, scientific approach to lighting, and deal with a lot of 'product photography' type scenarios...but understanding the fundamentals can certainly make anyone a better portrait photographer.


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## Big Mike (Oct 22, 2014)

MichelleP said:


> Also I have not yet dug into flash photography. I have a speed light but don't know how to use it in manual yet. It's on my list of things to learn but I'm a busy mom and just now feeling comfortable in manual.



Too bad you don't live around here.  I teach classes on shooting in manual, using light, using flash etc.  You sound like you would be a good student...you are asking the right questions anyway.

I would suggest looking around your area for some classes you might take.  Community colleges are usually a good place to start, although many photographers are offering classes on their own as well.  

Most students tell me that they learned more in 12 hours (4 classes) than they did with months or years of reading books & websites etc.


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## sashbar (Oct 22, 2014)

http://www.amazon.com/Chasing-Light...3996244&sr=8-1&keywords=Perello+for+the+light


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## KmH (Oct 22, 2014)

Direction & Quality of Light: Your Key to Better Portrait Photography Anywhere
On-Camera Flash Techniques for Digital Wedding and Portrait Photography
Off-Camera Flash: Techniques for Digital Photographers
Lighting & Design for Portrait Photography: Direction & Quality of Light
Minimalist Lighting: Professional Techniques for Location Photography


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## Nevermore1 (Oct 22, 2014)

I agree with the recommendation of Light: Science & Magic.  I just purchased it after reading through some older posts on the forum looking for recommendations on how to use lighting/recognize good and bad lighting.  I'm not very far into it but have learned a lot so far.  Like you I currently have a speedlight but to be honest have only used once while playing around with smoke pictures.  I really want to learn how to use it properly but also lack the time (unless I want to learn at midnight when I really should be sleeping)


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## Village Idiot (Oct 22, 2014)

One of the best single resource I know of for off camera lighting is here:
Strobist: Lighting 101

It's about using small hot shoe flashes off camera, but the information can be translated in to any size light. It teaches gear and techniques. The only reason I was hesitant to post it earlier is that you need some understanding of how a manual flash works in order to effectively use this information. That's why I stated that without that knowledge, it turns in to a bit of a crap shoot.


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## Designer (Oct 22, 2014)

MichelleP said:


> I have a speed light but don't know how to use it in manual yet.



Burn up some memory cards by "trial and error".


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## Gary A. (Oct 22, 2014)

Read Ansel Adams' book, _The Negative_.

The early chapters are devoted to a discussion of light, film and exposure. What follows is a detailed discussion of the zone system, chapters on natural and artificial light.

Seeing light is vitally important ... but seeing how the meter sees light is even better. Learning the Zone System will help you not only see light, but see light as the camera sees and captures light.

Gary

(skip the darkroom parts, lol)


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## imagemaker46 (Oct 22, 2014)

Try just looking at one object, walk around it or simply take pictures of it from several angles and compare them, see how the light falls on each area.  Set a lamp up, any lamp and place something near it, do the same thing, see how it looks in shadow and on the light side.  One thing to remember about using a flash, when you use a flash the original image that you saw will disappear when fire the flash.  The image with the nice light vanishes.

I've had lots of people say how their pictures never look as good after the flash has been used, it is because the flash has been used.   Once you start to understand light a little more, start to see how a flash can enhance your images, not change them.


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## MichelleP (Oct 22, 2014)

Thank you all! I will definitely check out all the suggestions!


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## shmne (Oct 27, 2014)

A simple exercise that will really show you a lot about light is photographing an object, so a child's doll or just something that can stand up on its own, in various natural lights. Take a journal, shoot it 6 different times a day in the same location, note the times, mark what image corresponds to it, and save it in a folder.

The places you want to do this are by a window, outside, on a cloudy day, and on a sunny day. Six times may be too much, but at least get 3. There are hundreds of unique lighting situations that we deal with daily outside of what is "natural" so even shooting in the office, at a bar, and in the street lights will help. This exercise creates a strong reference as to what the sun does during various parts of the day, and the different types of shadows found naturally.

One of the biggest issues is mastering how to create natural light with a flash, and this exercise helps really teach what natural light looks like. The better you understand natural light, the better a job you can do when trying to create unnatural light as well.

Personally my favorite master of lighting is Greg Heislor, he has a ton of amazing videos worth watching.


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## imagemaker46 (Oct 27, 2014)

Here's an example of using the same light from opposite sides. One shot is very average, while the other is much better.  As my Dad says, shoot from the dark side(shadow side)


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## Village Idiot (Oct 28, 2014)

imagemaker46 said:


> Here's an example of using the same light from opposite sides. One shot is very average, while the other is much better.  As my Dad says, shoot from the dark side(shadow side)



Your dad is telling you to do the opposite of what most photographers are taught. Shooting with the light source behind a person will either generally have the light source blown out or leave your subject in a silhouette. This is only desirable in certain situations. I know what you're trying to accomplish in ending up with a more dramatic portrait but telling a person that's new to photography to do this will probably have them end up more frustrated unless they understand why they're doing it and don't try to do it for every shot.


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## imagemaker46 (Oct 28, 2014)

My Dad is rarely wrong when it comes to photography and light.  I do understand what you are saying though.  I just wanted to provide a visual example of what I was talking about.  It is simply an example of how they can use the light around them.


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## Derrel (Oct 28, 2014)

I watched an entire three-day seminar Doug Gordon presented on creativelive.com where he repeated that mantra maybe fifty times for wedding and portrait shoots...."Shoot from the dark and toward the light."

As you can see from the shots in post #21, the front-lighted side shot is...fairly non-dramtic...but the shot made by "Shooting from the dark, and toward the light," is...pretty good as far as visual drama.


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## imagemaker46 (Oct 28, 2014)

Here are a couple of other examples.  It was a very strong low in the sky sun.


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## Village Idiot (Oct 30, 2014)

imagemaker46 said:


> Here are a couple of other examples.  It was a very strong low in the sky sun.



But with the dynamic range in these and no use of a flash for at least a tiny bit of fill, the faces are mostly blown and the rest of the details are extremely dark. Like I said, it depends on the situation and I’m betting more often than not someone who’s not experienced with shooting in these conditions will get less than ideal shots.

I was looking at wedding photos from friends who got recently married and their photographer did the same. The sky was exposed nicely and the couple, the minister, and everything else was underexposed with no highlights.


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## paigew (Oct 30, 2014)

I am a lover of light. I rarely use flash and I often shoot from the shadows as @Village Idiot mentioned. Shooting from the shadows is a great way to create mood and atmosphere in your images.

I'm sure you have heard about golden hour and how it is the softest most amazing light. That is the very best time to go out and experiment with different directions of light..side, front, back. It is easier because the light is more even and you aren't going to worry as much about blowing skin and adjusting your settings every time your subject slightly changes angles.




118 by paige_w, on Flickr


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## Paul Josaph (Oct 30, 2014)

'Light: Science & Magic' is the best book! photographers tool to success


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## imagemaker46 (Oct 30, 2014)

Village Idiot said:


> imagemaker46 said:
> 
> 
> > Here are a couple of other examples.  It was a very strong low in the sky sun.
> ...



While I understand what you are again saying, it the option to use a flash on these images, it would change what I saw and destroy the image. The biggest problem with so many photographers is that never learn how to read light, how to see what it there and choose the option of using a flash.  Yes it does come down to experience, it is also about learning from mistakes, playing with the light.  There are always going to be situations where a flash will be used. Personally I don't use one, I choose to work with what light have in front of me.  In the case of these shots, I could not have used one, they were shot with a 300mm lens from a fair distance back, I also don't worry about an additional shadow detail, as it's not necessary for these images.  They were exposed for what I was looking at.


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## Village Idiot (Oct 31, 2014)

imagemaker46 said:


> *There are always going to be situations where a flash will be used. Personally I don't use one, I choose to work with what light have in front of me.*



Oh, I see now. Anyone care to elaborate on what I see?


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## imagemaker46 (Oct 31, 2014)

I have not got a clue what you see.  I only know what I see when I'm looking through a camera and as long as I can translate that into an image, then it works for me.


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## photoguy99 (Oct 31, 2014)

Do you see that imagemaker is a professional sports photographer working quickly, efficiently, on the scene in a context where 'needs fill' is an idiotic non sequitur?


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## Village Idiot (Oct 31, 2014)

photoguy99 said:


> Do you see that imagemaker is a professional sports photographer working quickly, efficiently, on the scene in a context where 'needs fill' is an idiotic non sequitur?



Not really. And in unfavorable lighting conditions, why would a TTL flash on camera be out of the question? I use them outside for events so I don't get photos where 90% of the photo is blown out and underexposed. Lots of other people do the same. It doesn't destroy the photo. Fill doesn't have to be used to give you a perfect exposure but can be used to give us a better overall photo as we perceive it vs. what a camera can capture. And commenting about using flash then saying you never use flash just shows something...



imagemaker46 said:


> *One thing to remember about using a flash, when you use a flash the original image that you saw will disappear when fire the flash.* *The image with the nice light vanishes.*
> I've had lots of people say how their pictures never look as good after the flash has been used, it is because the flash has been used.   Once you start to understand light a little more, start to see how a flash can enhance your images, not change them*.*



Sometimes you can't get that image that you see without a flash and it's because of the limited dynamic range of a camera sensor vs. what the eye can see and translate to an image you perceive. An image that you see as balanced could show up with certain portions blown out or underexposed because of the dynamic range where as a flash can be used to recreate the scene as we perceive it and not as a camera has the limited ability to by itself.

With enough knowledge and experience, a photo that uses strobes can be made to look like it was 100% naturally lit.


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## photoguy99 (Oct 31, 2014)

That is actually wrong. A strobed photo almost never looks literally natural. A single light setup can get close, but the falloff is still wrong without some pretty careful post work.

With a light touch the average viewer will accept it as naturalistic. We're so used to multiple lights that we don't notice gently applied fill and it reads as natural. So in some sense it looks natural. But not a literal sense.

Sometimes you can sell your fill as a naturally occurring reflection, perhaps.

It's not, though, generally all that natural looking. What it is, is compliant with contemporary standards of photographic lighting. Which change constantly.

Ideas of what looks natural and proper in photos are local to venue and time. Cross an ocean, wait ten years, and all those immutable undeniable basic truths, those objective realities, will all be wrong.

Not sure how you're supposed to fill when you're using a 300 to shoot a speaker who's talking right now, and could wrap up at literally any moment. You're gonna need some really long arms, a psychic assistant, or super-speed.


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## Village Idiot (Oct 31, 2014)

photoguy99 said:


> That is actually wrong. A strobed photo almost never looks literally natural. A single light setup can get close, but the falloff is still wrong without some pretty careful post work.
> 
> With a light touch the average viewer will accept it as naturalistic. We're so used to multiple lights that we don't notice gently applied fill and it reads as natural. So in some sense it looks natural. But not a literal sense.
> 
> ...



You don't have to use a flash for everything of course, just know when to. And even then, the power of the modern Speedlight is a very nice thing. The Canon 600EX is rated at something like f/1.4 ISO100 and 190' zoomed to 200mm. You can finagle the setting for more juice or adjust as needed. I've seen photographer shooting basketball in gymnasiums with bounce flash and it works.

And my opinion differs from yours. There are time when you can use flash in a photograph and the viewer will have no idea that a flash was used. Hence, it looks like natural lighting.


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## photoguy99 (Oct 31, 2014)

Yes. It can read as naturalistic. An unsophisticated or inattentive viewer (I.e. almost everyone) will have no idea flash was used.

That's not quite the same as looking natural.


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## Village Idiot (Oct 31, 2014)

photoguy99 said:


> Yes. It can read as naturalistic. An unsophisticated or inattentive viewer (I.e. almost everyone) will have no idea flash was used.
> 
> That's not quite the same as looking natural.



And why can't a flash look like natural light? You can position a flash in a way that reflects where a real ambient light source comes from with modifiers to create that light source look. Therefore a flash can be made to look natural.


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## photoguy99 (Oct 31, 2014)

I believe I said that as well... So we're in total agreement?


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## imagemaker46 (Oct 31, 2014)

I've been shooting sports a long time, and rarely do I ever see any strobe lit sports that look natural in any way, you can tell what is lit and what is available light.  Personally I prefer using the light that is there, it is how I grew up shooting, it is what I know best.   Yes you can add some fill flash to an image, but you can still tell that a flash was used.  In the case of the images I posted, if I had of been in a position to use a flash they would not have looked anything like what I saw with using a strong back light. They would look like crap.

Learning to use available light takes time, some people will never get it right, they may produce some nice images from time to time, but will run back to a flash, it's easier to put a flash on a camera and simply record an image, this is how the majority of people shoot, they just want an image.

I really don't care if someone wants to use a flash, it's not something I use.  I shoot with long lenses.   The one thing I was always taught from the very beginning.

"If you can see it, you can shoot it"


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## photoguy99 (Oct 31, 2014)

You know what, I'm wrong.

I'm arguing with what I imagine you meant, not with what you said. Yes, flash can be used to create a completely natural looking photo. What I am objecting is that it almost never actually is. Which isn't what you said.

It frequently comes close enough to fool most people who mostly don't care.

But what you actually said is completely correct.

I apologize.


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## shmne (Nov 3, 2014)

How about we get back on track in this thread?

Village Idiot follows a mentality I also share, light right and no one will know better. This is one school of thought and will give you the most flexibility as a photographer in terms of creating the image you  want. This is usually for artistic or commercial advertisement work and sometimes intentionally looks unnatural, sometimes looks natural, and sometimes a mix of both. A photographer experienced with light will never make you question the light.

imagemaker46 / photoguy99 come from a "work with what you have" mentality. This is great for quicker moving professions like sports photography or band photography where capturing the moment is more important than capturing your own snowflake. You still have some control like where you are shooting from but generally that is it, so it is up to the photographer to properly capture that moment as best they can. This often requires being in the right spot and reading the scene well enough to know that eventually the stars will align and get what you want.

Figuring out what kind of photography you love the most often will take you on one of these two paths more than the other.


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## imagemaker46 (Nov 3, 2014)

I do move around to use the available light to my advantage every time I shoot, this comes from seeing what I want and recording the image.  I grew up with my Dad showing me though his own work how to use the light that is there.  I have shot pro sports with strobes and hate how the images look. Personally I think they all look fake.  Being able to really understand light is the backbone to photography, without that understanding work will suffer in some areas.

I work with a brilliant glamour photographer, I can't touch the work he does with his lighting, he has mastered studio work and setting up lights outside and shooting. I was surprised a few weeks ago when he said that he has trouble with available light. I asked if I could work with him on some shoots, he said that I have a greater understanding of light than he does and just learning how to set up lights is the easy part. We'll see what happens in the near future.  I have no problem setting up lights to do basic head shots or portraits, but my experience on the glamour shoots is limited to a few swim suit calendars, I thought they looked pretty good until I saw his work.


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## photoguy99 (Nov 3, 2014)

Actually I use artificial light myself quite a lot. But I'm rarely after a naturalistic look with it.


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## TamiAz (Nov 3, 2014)

I'm in the process of learning to use my speedlight and modifiers.. I tend to browse youtube for videos, I love creative live. In fact, I purchased a lighting class by Mark Wallace on Creative Live. Very informative!! The best thing to do is to get your speedlight out and play around with it..read, practice, watch videos, practice..practice, practice, practice... Have fun!!


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## pgriz (Nov 3, 2014)

The very big difference between "natural" light (perhaps calling it ambient is more appropriate), and what you get with flash, is the rapid light fall-off that you get when the light source is close to the subject.  The second characteristic is the apparent size of the light source, with flashes usually producing a much more defined specular appearance (unless they are well diffused in an umbrella, softbox or bounced off a large surface).  These two characteristics make the flash image more contrasty, and tend to separate the subject from its foreground/background (unless additional flash units are used to light the background, etc.).


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## photoguy99 (Nov 3, 2014)

Yep. There's a pretty regular poster who is a pretty vigorous defender of natural lighting who tend to 'shop the photos until they look strobe lit.


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## imagemaker46 (Nov 3, 2014)

Who's that? I'm not sure why anyone would want to shoot available light and then photoshop them to look like a flash was used. That doesn't make any sense to me.


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## Gary A. (Nov 3, 2014)

I shoot like imagemaker46. I don't give a rat's about dynamic range. I work with what's there. Typically, I don't like what flash does to my pre-visualized image. I don't shoot staged stuff in a controlled environment. I find that shooting with a flash gives me a lot of okay stuff. Working with tricky/low lighting I get fewer keepers, but those images are much better than what I get with a flash.


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## imagemaker46 (Nov 4, 2014)

Great images Gary.  Well said as well.


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## vintagesnaps (Nov 5, 2014)

I'd suggest getting out, just you and your camera, and learning to really see what you're looking at. Notice how light can change colors and tone, how it can change when you turn and face different directions, at different times of day, etc. Practice a lot, _a lot_, in taking pictures, and just observing and thinking about what you see in your viewfinder. Michelle it seems like you're on the right track, learning to meter and get proper exposures is key.





Gary I particularly like the first one and the one with the guitar, love the way you got the light along the edge of the subject in profile, hitting the frets etc. That's some beautifully done B&W.


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## Gary A. (Nov 5, 2014)

vintagesnaps said:


> I'd suggest getting out, just you and your camera, and learning to really see what you're looking at. Notice how light can change colors and tone, how it can change when you turn and face different directions, at different times of day, etc. Practice a lot, _a lot_, in taking pictures, and just observing and thinking about what you see in your viewfinder. Michelle it seems like you're on the right track, learning to meter and get proper exposures is key.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you Sharon (the other one). My point is working with what you have can often result in an image with more drama than if I had hit the scene with a flash.


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## Village Idiot (Nov 6, 2014)

You just have to learn how to use flashes and not just ambient to be able to get the result you want no matter where you're at.



> My point is working with what you have can often result in an image with more drama than if I had hit the scene with a flash.



If this is an opinion on your work, then that's how you feel about what you can shoot, but saying that photos using flash lack drama is an incorrect statement.


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## photoguy99 (Nov 6, 2014)

Bit he didn't say that photos taken with flash lack drama.

Strawman argument. Egregious excuse to post own photos. 15 yard penalty. First down.


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## JoeW (Nov 6, 2014)

Welcome!

Okay, first things first, you're going to have to change your name.  We have a moderator named Michelle who posts often to avoid confusion you're going to have to become someone else (...okay, I'm kidding).

I second/third the suggestion on Light:  Science and Magic.  Good detailed book.

Next suggestion is to read up about white balance with your camera and then get a white board with a dry erase marker and eraser.  Then chose a product/item that has some angles to it, it's not just one flat side or sheet (it could be a lamp or tool like a crescent wrench).  Set it up and the photograph it.  But change the WB for each shot.  And on your handy little WB, write down the WB setting and maybe a few other exposure details (like if you used exposure compensation or aperture setting since those can also affect the appearance of the light).  Yes, you could find all of that data with an exif file reader or in an editing program like Photoshop or depending upon your camera you should be able to see the settings in a review mode.  But I'm assuming you don't have those (exif reader or photoshop) right now and what camera you have affects your ability to review shooting data.  So what you want to do is to demonstrate to your self in a series of shots where all you do is change one particular setting (like WB or aperture or exposure compensation) and record that in the shot.  One you've played with camera settings you next need to start setting your clock and get a tripod.  Do shoot in the "blue hour" (pre-sunrise and post sunset when the sun isn't visible yet there is color in the sky).  You'll need a tripod for that.  Shoot shortly after sunrise and shortly before sundown (the "golden hour").  Note in your shot (handy white board again) how close it was to sunrise and sunset.  Shoot a variety of things...length of shadows on the ground (like with a cobble stone street).  Water and it's hue during the golden hour.  A person's skin tones during the golden hour.  Photography a piece of white cardboard and see what the color looks like during the golden hour.  Then photograph mid-day on a sunny day.  And on a cloudy day.  Set up a file and store all of these photos (electronically) in that file.  You've now created an instant tutorial and set of reminders on what your camera's photos look like in certain types of light.


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## Village Idiot (Nov 6, 2014)

photoguy99 said:


> Bit he didn't say that photos taken with flash lack drama.
> 
> Strawman argument. Egregious excuse to post own photos. 15 yard penalty. First down.



Did you read his post? That's why I questioned if his statement was purely about his photography or just a general statement about flash photography because using the pronouns You and I in the same sentence like that doesn't make for a clear meaning.



Gary A. said:


> Thank you Sharon (the other one). My point is *working with what you have can often result in an image with more drama* than if I had hit the scene with a flash.


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## photoguy99 (Nov 6, 2014)

Arguing with the referee. 25 yard penalty.

FIRST DOWN!!11111!


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## Village Idiot (Nov 7, 2014)

photoguy99 said:


> Arguing with the referee. 25 yard penalty.
> 
> FIRST DOWN!!11111!



Do you have anything worth contributing?


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## photoguy99 (Nov 7, 2014)

Yes but I already contributed it.


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## shaylou (Nov 21, 2014)

MichelleP said:


> I would like recommendations on the best ways to learn about light.  Books, exercises, whatever you've got. Outside, I understand open shade is the best. I look for the edge of shade closest to the open sky.  I take mostly kids and family shots. I'm learning to pay attention to the direction of light and how to use things to reflect it. Any suggestions about the best ways to learn about light?



Here is something I came across a while back and found it an interesting exercise. The project was to photograph light. Not what the light is falling on but the light itself. It is easy to get caught up shooing the shadows that the light produces but try to concentrate on the light itself. I found myself looking at light a lot different after doing this exercise. 

I hope that helps.


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