# Best of... Uncle Bobs



## jowensphoto (Oct 28, 2014)

The folks on another forum I frequent often do "Best of..." story threads. I'd like to start one here about Uncle Bobs - mostly because I need a reason to share this lovely tale with y'all.
I shot an amazing wedding this weekend. The officiant was very cool and gave me permission to use as much flash as I needed and I was allowed to move around during the ceremony. He even said that there was no "off limit" area because "capturing the moments and memories is so very important." Yeah, I was pretty stoked - this is the first time the officiant gave me all the freedom in the world and I was ready to do whatever and go where ever I had to to get the best shots.


So there I was, in the isle, camera up and focused locked - ready for the kiss. The officiant says, "...you may kiss..." and Uncle Bob JUMPS in front of me and takes the shot. Luckily it was a, ahem, long kiss so I was able to lean slightly to the side and get the shots. I wanted to rip the guy a new one (especially since he had a Nikon ) but I just said, "Excuse me!" in my most annoyed tone.


This was his worst offense, but he followed me around all day and shot over my shoulder. He tried to pose during formals after the ceremony (which I promptly wrapped up and said, "Alright y'all, we're good, let's get back to the reception!") and that only exacerbated my annoyance.

I didn't have a problem with it since he was mostly staying out of my way, but after the kiss incident, I was peeved, then he went and tried to pull that stunt at formals.

I really want to find out who the guy is and see how he's posting these on FB (because, obviously, that's inevitable). I'm not afraid to point out what's in my contract (exclusivity clause) if he is trying to use the photos for advertisement.

Okay, rant over. Give me your best Uncle Bob story!


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## e.rose (Oct 28, 2014)

Your contract should not only state that he can't use it for advertisement. Your contract should state that no other photographers, amateur or otherwise, should be present for the formal photos, and that you reserve the right to throw out anyone (from where you're shooting, not the wedding) who is keeping you from physically being able to do your job.

Put something like that in your contract, talk to your clients about it during booking and STRESS this point and why it's important.


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## tirediron (Oct 28, 2014)

e.rose said:


> Your contract should not only state that he can't use it for advertisement. Your contract should state that no other photographers, amateur or otherwise, should be present for the formal photos, and that you reserve the right to throw out anyone (from where you're shooting, not the wedding) who is keeping you from physically being able to do your job.
> 
> Put something like that in your contract, talk to your clients about it during booking and STRESS this point and why it's important.


The problem is, even if you do put this in, there's no stopping 'Uncle Bobs'....


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## 480sparky (Oct 28, 2014)




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## e.rose (Oct 28, 2014)

tirediron said:


> e.rose said:
> 
> 
> > Your contract should not only state that he can't use it for advertisement. Your contract should state that no other photographers, amateur or otherwise, should be present for the formal photos, and that you reserve the right to throw out anyone (from where you're shooting, not the wedding) who is keeping you from physically being able to do your job.
> ...



Sure there is.

I used to do it all the time, and I've had two photographers recently do this, while I was second shooting with them.

1. You have the couple explain to their guests in an announcement before hand or in the invitation or whatever that they are welcome to take photos of the ceremony but need to remain in their seats out of respect for the couple. If the COUPLE asks for it... most people will respect that.

2. During formals, you politely turn around and say, "If you don't mind, I would like to give the couple and wedding party some space. We will be headed to the reception soon, and you are welcome to take all your photos of them there!  " And if you've prepped your couple, they will help drive that point home.


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## ronlane (Oct 28, 2014)

tirediron said:


> e.rose said:
> 
> 
> > Your contract should not only state that he can't use it for advertisement. Your contract should state that no other photographers, amateur or otherwise, should be present for the formal photos, and that you reserve the right to throw out anyone (from where you're shooting, not the wedding) who is keeping you from physically being able to do your job.
> ...



Okay, this is politically incorrect, but.... Can you say concealed carry..... lol


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## jowensphoto (Oct 28, 2014)

tirediron said:


> e.rose said:
> 
> 
> > Your contract should not only state that he can't use it for advertisement. Your contract should state that no other photographers, amateur or otherwise, should be present for the formal photos, and that you reserve the right to throw out anyone (from where you're shooting, not the wedding) who is keeping you from physically being able to do your job.
> ...



All that is in there. I think it's wise to have the B&G mention this to their guests and something I'll keep in mind for the future (though I'm working to get away from weddings in the coming year).

Yes, I could have stopped shooting and I would have been well within my contracted right to do so. I need to work on  being assertive - at the moment, I can either ignore or I can blow up. Saving myself from either of those, by communicating with the B&G first would be the best bet  Thanks for your advice, Emily!



Ron- that's in the works, PC or not


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## tirediron (Oct 28, 2014)

e.rose said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> > e.rose said:
> ...


 That's just it; "most" people.


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## BillM (Oct 28, 2014)

jowensphoto said:


> I wanted to rip the guy a new one (especially since he had a Nikon ) but I just said, "Excuse me!" in my most annoyed tone.



Well maybe Uncle Bob saw that you were shooting Canon and he wanted to get them a good picture


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## Braineack (Oct 28, 2014)

A + M | Wedding shoot from a professional guest | Photography Forum

A + A | Wedding shoot from a professional guest: The Sequel | Photography Forum


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## jowensphoto (Oct 28, 2014)

BillM said:


> jowensphoto said:
> 
> 
> > I wanted to rip the guy a new one (especially since he had a Nikon ) but I just said, "Excuse me!" in my most annoyed tone.
> ...




I was waiting for that


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## runnah (Oct 28, 2014)

Braineack said:


> A + M | Wedding shoot from a professional guest | Photography Forum
> 
> A + A | Wedding shoot from a professional guest: The Sequel | Photography Forum



Hey Bob!


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## jowensphoto (Oct 28, 2014)

Braineack said:


> A + M | Wedding shoot from a professional guest | Photography Forum
> 
> A + A | Wedding shoot from a professional guest: The Sequel | Photography Forum



I have no problem with other folks taking photos during a wedding I've been hired to shoot. I have a problem when they get in my way. I have a problem when the guest watermarks his/her images and uses for marketing in any form.

It's classless.


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## Derrel (Oct 28, 2014)

I think trying to be the only one with a camera at a wedding is pretty ridiculous in the year 2014. People have cameras. Lotta' cameras out there in the world today. If one's work isn't way better than what an Uncle Bob can produce, it might be time to re-think the whole wedding game. The whole, "I am the only personal allowed to have a camera at this wedding," level of exclusionary behavior is something I just cannot agree with. It's just unrealistic in the year 2014.

Besides, if ONLY the official photographer of record has a camera at a wedding, that kills the potential for amazing Uncle Bob stories! And as we know, Uncle Bob stories are like, "_The biggest fish of the trip!_" stories, or "_The _r_oyal flush that won me the '67 Mustang in a poker game!_" stories.


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## runnah (Oct 28, 2014)

I just think we should get to the root of the issue and ban all weddings.


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## jowensphoto (Oct 28, 2014)

runnah said:


> I just think we should get to the root of the issue and ban all weddings.



Yeah, I'm trading in weddings for boudoir... so, personally banned, at least


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## runnah (Oct 28, 2014)

jowensphoto said:


> Yeah, I'm trading in weddings for boudoir... so, personally banned, at least



God, I'd much rather take photos women in their unmentionables than Aunt Marge doing the chicken dance.


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## jowensphoto (Oct 28, 2014)

Derrel said:


> I think trying to be the only one with a camera at a wedding is pretty ridiculous in the year 2014. People have cameras. Lotta' cameras out there in the world today. If one's work isn't way better than what an Uncle Bob can produce, it might be time to re-think the whole wedding game. The whole, "I am the only personal allowed to have a camera at this wedding," level of exclusionary behavior is something I just cannot agree with. It's just unrealistic in the year 2014.
> 
> Besides, if ONLY the official photographer of record has a camera at a wedding, that kills the potential for amazing Uncle Bob stories! And as we know, Uncle Bob stories are like, "_The biggest fish of the trip!_" stories, or "_The _r_oyal flush that won me the '67 Mustang in a poker game!_" stories.




I don't disagree with you. There were TONS of people with cameras and phones (fortunately, I did not spot an iPad lol). but this guy got in the way of me doing my job. There has to be a certain level of behavior expectations and this "gentleman" completely disregarded me and the need to perform my job.

My contract protects me, and I'm happy to show the client the photo of their lower bodies/grooms elbow with this shitheads head in the way of the actual kiss, but that doesn't really change the fact that people just don't give a **** about anyone other than themselves.


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## Braineack (Oct 28, 2014)

jowensphoto said:


> I have no problem with other folks taking photos during a wedding I've been hired to shoot. I have a problem when they get in my way. I have a problem when the guest watermarks his/her images and uses for marketing in any form.
> 
> It's classless.



I make friends/contacts and specifically tell them to push me out of the way if I'm ever in.


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## Derrel (Oct 28, 2014)

This reminds me of news photography and NOT getting blocked out of a shot. If a person is standing behind 10 or 15 others with cameras and is then somehow surprised that a shooter in the front pops up in the viewfinder, it's a case of not being aware of the realities of the way event shooting works. If you don't want to get boxed out, you need to have taken control and put yourself in a position where YOU are the one who gets the shot. If you want to be in charge of the situation, you'll need to actually "OWN it", and be aware of how human nature works. If you're 25 feet back, and there are four,five, six rows of people in front of you, you were too far back and too timid, or too inexperienced, or not considering of the way events ACTUALLY go down, to have put yourself right up front. It's more a case of being prepared, and anticipating what might happen.

Oh...and I've actually shot news events, press events, sports events, and weddings...I know how it feels to be the person right down in front, blocking the view of everybody, or side-by-side with six to ten other people with cameras right behind a cordon. Again...I bet you saw Uncle Bob there, earlier, right? You wanna stop him? STAND in the aisle, right beside him, and pin him in, in the seats. If he was sitting at an end seat, and experience tells me he probably was, you should have been right there, next to him, so when he stood up, he had nowhere to go except right through your shooting position.


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## vintagesnaps (Oct 28, 2014)

I know of a photographer who bills for extra time he spends waiting (obviously not during the ceremony, although maybe stopping the ceremony til uncle Bob sits back down isn't such a bad idea!! LOL). But he found that when they notice him waiting for guests to stop flailing their phones around and get out of his way, they get things moving along quick enough - they don't want to get billed for extra time!

The couple can't necessarily control all the behavior of all their guests but can give guidelines and do some friendly yet firm enforcement of the guidelines. Probably the contract should address you not being held responsible for missing key moments due to guests interfering with you doing your job. They wouldn't put up with a guest in the kitchen interfering with the caterers would they?


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## jowensphoto (Oct 28, 2014)

Braineack said:


> jowensphoto said:
> 
> 
> > I have no problem with other folks taking photos during a wedding I've been hired to shoot. I have a problem when they get in my way. I have a problem when the guest watermarks his/her images and uses for marketing in any form.
> ...



You are welcome to be a professional guest at any wedding I'm hired to do. I may use you as a human shield, to push others out of my way 



Derrel said:


> This reminds me of news photography and NOT getting blocked out of a shot. If a person is standing behind 10 or 15 others with cameras and is then somehow surprised that a shooter in the front pops up in the viewfinder, it's a case of not being aware of the realities of the way event shooting works. If you don't want to get boxed out, you need to have taken control and put yourself in a position where YOU are the one who gets the shot. If you want to be in charge of the situation, you'll need to actually "OWN it", and be aware of how human nature works. If you're 25 feet back, and there are four,five, six rows of people in front of you, you were too far back and too timid, or too inexperienced, or not considering of the way events ACTUALLY go down, to have put yourself right up front. It's more a case of being prepared, and anticipating what might happen.
> 
> Oh...and I've actually shot news events, press events, sports events, and weddings...I know how it feels to be the person right down in front, blocking the view of everybody, or side-by-side with six to ten other people with cameras right behind a cordon. Again...I bet you saw Uncle Bob there, earlier, right? You wanna stop him? STAND in the aisle, right beside him, and pin him in, in the seats. If he was sitting at an end seat, and experience tells me he probably was, you should have been right there, next to him, so when he stood up, he had nowhere to go except right through your shooting position.




The guy was behind me. I was IN the MIDDLE of the isle. He did some stealth sideways turn and jump and got in front of me. If I wasn't so pissed off, I'd be impressed with his agility. He was moving around the entire ceremony. If I hadn't known any better, I'd have guessed he was part of the hired photography team.


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## Braineack (Oct 28, 2014)

Derrel said:


> This reminds me of news photography and NOT getting blocked out of a shot.


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## Braineack (Oct 28, 2014)

jowensphoto said:


> You are welcome to be a professional guest at any wedding I'm hired to do. I may use you as a human shield, to push others out of my way



I'd absolutely take you up on that offer.







This wedding photog took a picture of me taking a picture of him...


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## Derrel (Oct 28, 2014)

A few comments on Uncle Bobs. Spot them early, and talk to them to size them up. Tell them a few things. Go over the ground rules. Let them know your expectations. If they are a nuisance pre-ceremony, have the best man or one of the parents speak to them and tell them they need to back off, or put the camera away. It's a matter of knowing how people "are" and how events are actually run. So, this guy who was there was moving around the entire ceremony. And somehow he got in front of you and blocked the shot. You needed to have a discussion and a plan way before the kiss happened. He was obviously a "factor" in the overall event, and yet it seems that his presence wasn't really "factored in" in terms of the kiss shot at the end of the ceremony.

Did you even talk to this guy at all, before the ceremony? My guess is that that discussion did not occur. I could be wrong about that and if so, I apologize in advance, but if you didn't "own the room" from the start, then that says you're willing to let him do what he wants.

Did you talk to this guy before the ceremony? Did the best man or the bride's father talk to this guy? If he walked in front of you, why didn't you walk right up to his side?  I'm mentioning this because this issue has been going on for decades, and there are some things that can be done about the Uncle Bob issues. So he cut in front of you at the kiss...not sure why that was an issue if you knew he was a PITA, you needed to be ready with a plan for that shot, even if it happened to be walking up right to his side and shooting it with the 16-35 with him right there beside you.

Have you ever asked an Uncle Bob to "assist you" by shooting the "reaction shots"? Or given him some other type of basically frivolous assignment? I mean he's there...why not make use of him by asking him to do you a favor and ,"Handle the ___________ shots while I _______." this involves actually talking to the guy before hand.

This is really about being a professional in the sense of managing the event for YOUR photographic coverage of the event. My mentor was old-school; _the photographer ran the wedding_, and determined a lot of how things would be paced, and done.  One of the primary directives is to establish that the guests are just that, guests, before the event,and to establish control over the photography and how it is done.

How was the cake cutting? Did you pre-plan that and in fact, sort of run it, and set it up so you had an absolutely unassailable position to shoot it from, the exact way you wanted to shoot it?

These are the things my mentor taught me, after he'd hit about 70 years old and had shot so many weddings he'd lost count. We're getting only the "last straw" in your recounting of this annoying action. How was the rest of the event handled? Was this the only time he walked past  you?


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## Nevermore1 (Oct 28, 2014)

jowensphoto said:


> I have a problem when they get in my way. I have a problem when the guest watermarks his/her images and uses for marketing in any form.
> 
> It's classless.



I don't understand why you would have a problem with someone doing what they have every right to do with the photos they took. So long as they don't say they were the "paid" photographer I don't see any issue with them using their photos for a portfolio.  

As for the Uncle Bob's - they will often times get the shots the paid photographer doesn't even bother with.  So long as they don't disrupt formal photos or the ceremony photos it shouldn't be a big deal.  I had my camera with me at my wedding (I had a professional husband and wife team with an assistant as well) and got tons of shots that they probably never thought of getting but I love.  I also had disposable cameras for the guests to get snapshots during the reception as well (our photographer though this was a great idea since they had no way to be everywhere at once).  We got some great photos from these cameras (and some not so great once the open bar hit the guests but they sure are great to laugh at) that we wouldn't have otherwise gotten.


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## jowensphoto (Oct 28, 2014)

Braineack said:


> jowensphoto said:
> 
> 
> > You are welcome to be a professional guest at any wedding I'm hired to do. I may use you as a human shield, to push others out of my way
> ...


Haha, that's a fun shot.


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## jowensphoto (Oct 28, 2014)

Nevermore1 said:


> jowensphoto said:
> 
> 
> > I have a problem when they get in my way. I have a problem when the guest watermarks his/her images and uses for marketing in any form.
> ...


I have a thought out response, will add she. I'm not typing with my thumbs


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## jowensphoto (Oct 28, 2014)

jowensphoto said:


> Nevermore1 said:
> 
> 
> > jowensphoto said:
> ...


Exactly. Lol


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## snowbear (Oct 28, 2014)

I haven't seen you post in a while, so I just wanted to say "hi."

I can't really relate, other than I do my best to NOT be Uncle Bob!  At my niece's wedding, I went where the real photographer was not, I stayed out if the way.


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## jowensphoto (Oct 29, 2014)

snowbear said:


> I haven't seen you post in a while, so I just wanted to say "hi."
> 
> I can't really relate, other than I do my best to NOT be Uncle Bob!  At my niece's wedding, I went where the real photographer was not, I stayed out if the way.


hello!


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## pixmedic (Oct 29, 2014)

I think the days of banning all cameras except for the hired guns are long past. Each person is different to deal with, and each situation is different, but i will tell you how we deal with the extra "photographer" friends and family. 

You can usually spot them fairly quickly. Especially if, like us, you do a fair amount of pre-ceremony  shots. Aside from the obvious "getting ready" shots that people love, it serves as a fantastic way to lure out the "uncle Bob" photogs. They usually can't resist getting in on any shots THEY think YOU think are important.

Here's what I like to do when I have identified a "fam  with a cam" person.

I introduce myself. Marvel at their camera. Make some small talk about their photography hobby and experience. I explain that I want to give the bride and groom the best pictures I can, and as I'm sure they do as well, they can help facilitate this by coordinating with me a little. I like to involve them a little as well. I ask them if there are any particular shots they would like to see, and if so,  tell them I will do my best to work it in for them.

Sometimes, a few simple considerations to them makes our job much easier. When they feel like we are working WITH them, instead of against them,  I have found that they make a greater conscious effort to stay out of our way. I realize you don't HAVE  to make any considerations for uncle bobs...i realize the contract may give you all camera rights...
I'm just saying that 90% of the time for us, talking to the family photogs ahead of time has made a huge difference. Sometimes people are just going to be dicks  about it. Can't always be helped. But you would be amazed how accommodating they can be, and how appreciative they can be if you just take a few minutes to talk to them about what you would like to do, what they would like to do, and how both can be accomplished. 

I'm sure your people skills are far better than mine...usually I can just give people drugs and they do whatever I need then to.
Doesn't work as well at a wedding.


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## mpasq66 (Nov 4, 2014)

pixmedic said:


> I'm sure your people skills are far better than mine...usually I can just give people drugs and they do whatever I need then to.
> Doesn't work as well at a wedding.




I don't know, seems like that might actually work!


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## rexbobcat (Nov 4, 2014)

Derrel said:


> This reminds me of news photography and NOT getting blocked out of a shot. If a person is standing behind 10 or 15 others with cameras and is then somehow surprised that a shooter in the front pops up in the viewfinder, it's a case of not being aware of the realities of the way event shooting works. If you don't want to get boxed out, you need to have taken control and put yourself in a position where YOU are the one who gets the shot. If you want to be in charge of the situation, you'll need to actually "OWN it", and be aware of how human nature works. If you're 25 feet back, and there are four,five, six rows of people in front of you, you were too far back and too timid, or too inexperienced, or not considering of the way events ACTUALLY go down, to have put yourself right up front. It's more a case of being prepared, and anticipating what might happen.
> 
> Oh...and I've actually shot news events, press events, sports events, and weddings...I know how it feels to be the person right down in front, blocking the view of everybody, or side-by-side with six to ten other people with cameras right behind a cordon. Again...I bet you saw Uncle Bob there, earlier, right? You wanna stop him? STAND in the aisle, right beside him, and pin him in, in the seats. If he was sitting at an end seat, and experience tells me he probably was, you should have been right there, next to him, so when he stood up, he had nowhere to go except right through your shooting position.



Or they might be in the back because the framing is the best back there and it would make for the best photo?  I mean, it's just a thought.

I would consider getting a mediocre shot because you're afraid of what MIGHT happen to be the mark of a truly inexperienced photographer.


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## manny212 (Nov 10, 2014)

runnah said:


> I just think we should get to the root of the issue and ban all weddings.



Agree wholeheartedly !!!! It's quite obvious to me that without weddings we would not have this issue !!!


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## 480sparky (Nov 10, 2014)

manny212 said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> > I just think we should get to the root of the issue and ban all weddings.
> ...




As an added bonus, the divorce rate would plummet like a lead balloon!  Win-win!


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## Patrice (Nov 13, 2014)

When I'm an invited guest at a wedding I leave my camera at home and have some fun.


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