# C&C challenge.



## EIngerson (Feb 13, 2012)

Well, with all the C&C drama going around, I thought I would volunteer a photo of mine to get the works. Do your worst, beginners and pros alike. You're not going to hurt my feelings and if you think you're too new to have thoughts, post them anyway because your thoughts matter too and I want to hear (read) them. Thanks for looking.




Michael1515 by Ingerson&quot;PCD&quot;, on Flickr


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## EIngerson (Feb 13, 2012)

BTW, if you don't post your thoughts, you ARE what everyone has been calling you. 

Yup, it's like that.


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## imagemaker46 (Feb 13, 2012)

I like the action, you're right on with it, exposure is good. The only element I find distracting is the building and people in the background. It however is not enough to say anything negative about the overall quailty of the image.


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## Bossy (Feb 13, 2012)

I agree with the above. Not that you had a lot of choice I'm sure on where you were, but I sure wish the background was just the mountains instead of the chick with the puffy blue vest.


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## EIngerson (Feb 13, 2012)

Thank you imagemaker and Bossy.


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## Demers18 (Feb 13, 2012)

EIngerson said:
			
		

> Well, with all the C&C drama going around, I thought I would volunteer a photo of mine to get the works. Do your worst, beginners and pros alike. You're not going to hurt my feelings and if you think you're too new to have thoughts, post them anyway because your thoughts matter too and I want to hear (read) them. Thanks for looking.
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/ingerson/6865862465/
> Michael1515 by Ingerson"PCD", on Flickr



I really like how you were able to capture the motion and the detail in the dirt flying behind the wheel. 
I would also agree with the others with the people in the background being a little distracting but to really much you can do there. I think one way that would have been avoided is if the stands were full of people and that could have made a difference.
The last thing is that his bike is too orange like seriously it ruins the photo


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## eddlum25 (Feb 13, 2012)

Nice sharp picture and good pp too . My noob opinion 

Sorry about the signature, Click the post button too quick


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## EIngerson (Feb 13, 2012)

Demers18 said:


> EIngerson said:
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> ...



I'm a honda guy, so I couldn't agree more with it being too orange.    Thanks for the reply.


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## EIngerson (Feb 13, 2012)

eddlum25 said:


> Nice sharp picture and good pp too . My noob opinion
> 
> Sorry about the signature, Click the post button too quick



No sweat, thanks for the reply.


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## The_Traveler (Feb 13, 2012)

I think it's a decent shot but there are elements in it that keep it from being better as it is.
How do you think it could be improved starting from what you have here?


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## Majeed Badizadegan (Feb 13, 2012)

Here's a quick and dirty edit to remove background distractions. 

I really like the lighting and the shot itself.


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## thinkricky (Feb 13, 2012)

Rotanimod said:
			
		

> Here's a quick and dirty edit to remove background distractions.
> 
> I really like the lighting and the shot itself.



How did you do that so cleanly???


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## The_Traveler (Feb 13, 2012)

Come on, OP.
Let's have your thoughts on why it isn't better and how you would get there.


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## Demers18 (Feb 13, 2012)

EIngerson said:
			
		

> I'm a honda guy, so I couldn't agree more with it being too orange.    Thanks for the reply.



I'm a Kawasaki guy lol



			
				thinkricky said:
			
		

> How did you do that so cleanly???



I'm wondering the same thing


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## EIngerson (Feb 13, 2012)

The_Traveler said:


> I think it's a decent shot but there are elements in it that keep it from being better as it is.
> How do you think it could be improved starting from what you have here?



The 1st thing I wish I could improve is the time of day and type of weather we had. Scattered overcast, so I was chasing exposure all day. this one the sun popped out while I was looking through the view finder. Thats what made (his) right side blow out. I can see the background issue that's been mentioned. As a rider myself, it just says "practice day". Very seldom is a background in a motocross photo (at a public facility) going to have an empty background. It's usually full of powerlines, sheds, people, vehicles, water trucks, porta johns and as you see here, bleachers.  Quite frankly, I don't have the talent to edit them out and have a believeable end product. 

So, as pointed out above, to me the background is the biggest thing I would change. 

Thanks for posting. Can you explain what you mean by "elements in it that keep it from being better "?


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## EIngerson (Feb 13, 2012)

The_Traveler said:


> Come on, OP.
> Let's have your thoughts on why it isn't better and how you would get there.



  I was typing, chill.


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## EIngerson (Feb 13, 2012)

Rotanimod said:


> Here's a quick and dirty edit to remove background distractions.
> 
> I really like the lighting and the shot itself.



Nice Rotanimod! That's impressive. Thanks for the compliment too.


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## The_Traveler (Feb 13, 2012)

OP, look at the picture as you have it.
How would you finish it to make it more effective?


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## EIngerson (Feb 13, 2012)

The_Traveler said:


> OP, look at the picture as you have it.
> How would you finish it to make it more effective?



I already posted. It's the last post of page 1.


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## SCraig (Feb 13, 2012)

I think it's a good shot.  It does say "Practice Day" since there is only one rider on the track.  I also find the background distracting, but that's one of the things that can be overlooked to a certain extent when shooting motorsports.  You can't always pick the angle at which you want to shoot.  I've shot a couple of motorcycle roadraces and regardless of how simple it sounds to "Just pick a different angle" it doesn't always work out that way.

That said, I think it would have been improved with a slower shutter speed.  The action is frozen and as such doesn't have the same impact as if everything else was blurred from the motion.  As a guess that was probably about 1/500 second (just a guess though) and I usually shoot 1/160 or 1/250 at roadraces.  Pan with the rider and it helps blur out the background even more.  The spokes will be blurred giving more of an impression of motion.  I freely admit that roadraces can be easier in some respects, even though the bikes are normally going a LOT faster.  I haven't shot any MX so you may know the best way to do it.  During a roadrace  I know which way the rider is going to lean, I know when he's going to do it, and unless he is in a pack of bikes I know he's going to stay that way for a couple of seconds.


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## sm4him (Feb 13, 2012)

Demers18 said:


> I really like how you were able to capture the motion and the detail in the dirt flying behind the wheel.
> I would also agree with the others with the people in the background being a little distracting but to really much you can do there. I think one way that would have been avoided is if the stands were full of people and that could have made a difference.
> *The last thing is that his bike is too orange like seriously it ruins the photo*



Having just wrapped up 15 hours of work today, I'm way too tired tonight to even attempt coherent comments about the photo, and I refuse to just say, "I like it." 

However, I did HAVE to address this last statement.  As a UT-Knoxville Volunteer fan, there is NO SUCH THING as too much orange!!!


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## ishootmuscles (Feb 13, 2012)

Nice and sharp image. Vivid colors!


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## EIngerson (Feb 13, 2012)

SCraig said:


> I think it's a good shot.  It does say "Practice Day" since there is only one rider on the track.  I also find the background distracting, but that's one of the things that can be overlooked to a certain extent when shooting motorsports.  You can't always pick the angle at which you want to shoot.  I've shot a couple of motorcycle roadraces and regardless of how simple it sounds to "Just pick a different angle" it doesn't always work out that way.
> 
> That said, I think it would have been improved with a slower shutter speed.  The action is frozen and as such doesn't have the same impact as if everything else was blurred from the motion.  As a guess that was probably about 1/500 second (just a guess though) and I usually shoot 1/160 or 1/250 at roadraces.  Pan with the rider and it helps blur out the background even more.  The spokes will be blurred giving more of an impression of motion.  I freely admit that roadraces can be easier in some respects, even though the bikes are normally going a LOT faster.  I haven't shot any MX so you may know the best way to do it.  During a roadrace  I know which way the rider is going to lean, I know when he's going to do it, and unless he is in a pack of bikes I know he's going to stay that way for a couple of seconds.



I was actually waiting for this thought to be posted. Thanks. 

This is a huge debate in MX photography. You'll find that people who aren't the "exclusive" MX photographer, suggest the wheel blur. I learned from guys that shoot for the major MX magazines (I'm not going to be a dousche and name drop) They weened me off of that frame of mind. Bottom line, it is a personal preference of mine to try and freeze the knobbies. Honestly, the only reason my shutter speed was as slow as it was is the overcast. 

Thanks for the responce. I appreciate it.


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## EIngerson (Feb 13, 2012)

sm4him said:


> Demers18 said:
> 
> 
> > I really like how you were able to capture the motion and the detail in the dirt flying behind the wheel.
> ...



  I can see your point of view.  "GO VOL'S!"


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## The_Traveler (Feb 13, 2012)

EIngerson said:


> The_Traveler said:
> 
> 
> > OP, look at the picture as you have it.
> ...



I don't know what you mean by that.

As I see it, this picture isn't as effective as it could be because the rider is surrounded by areas that are as bright as he is.
The ground is light, the hills are light. there are bright areas all other that pull the eye.
Even the rider himself has bright areas that pull my eye away from his torso and upper half to his arm and his foot.

By creating more contrast in the background, the sprayed dirt becomes more apparent and gives more energy to the picture.
By darkening at least some of the brighter areas, the viewer's eye could settle on the rider first.

Once you have a picture, you know what you want the viewer to look at.
Maximize the impact of that and minimize the things that pull the eye away or let it wander.

Look at great motorcycle shots and see that the center of interest is clear and stands out from what isn't interesting or important.
Here is a link to a friend of mine who shoots mostly track racing. His shots are simple, clean and the subject is well-defined and stands out.

Make your rider stand out.


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## SCraig (Feb 13, 2012)

EIngerson said:


> I was actually waiting for this thought to be posted. Thanks.
> 
> This is a huge debate in MX photography. You'll find that people who aren't the "exclusive" MX photographer, suggest the wheel blur. I learned from guys that shoot for the major MX magazines (I'm not going to be a dousche and name drop) They weened me off of that frame of mind. Bottom line, it is a personal preference of mine to try and freeze the knobbies. Honestly, the only reason my shutter speed was as slow as it was is the overcast.
> 
> Thanks for the responce. I appreciate it.


Works for me.  I figured there was probably a reason but thought I'd point it out anyway.

Not having shot MX is a handicap for me, and one that I'll have to try and rectify this season.  The track that the roadraces ran on has closed so I have to find some kind of bikes to shoot and BMX ain't gonna cut it


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## EIngerson (Feb 13, 2012)

The_Traveler said:


> EIngerson said:
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> > The_Traveler said:
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Thanks a ton Traveler,

That's really something to think about. I just went to Lightroom and gave it a test run. Nothing to the level I'd post yet, but I can see the subject pop more and draw viewer focus. I appreciate that, and yes I grasp what you're talking about. That said, it's a tool and would only apply to a small percentage of my photos. I enjoy the background in MX photography. I look for tell tale signs in them and see if I can identify the track and if I have been to it. 

Thanks again though, I enjoy all the knowledge I can get.


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## EIngerson (Feb 13, 2012)

SCraig said:


> EIngerson said:
> 
> 
> > I was actually waiting for this thought to be posted. Thanks.
> ...



I'm a little biased, but I challenge anyone to go shoot MX and not have a blast. It's high in action, colorful and VERY predictable when you have an idea of where the good shots are. If you don't know where the best shots are, ask the subjects you'll be shooting, they'll tell you.


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## EIngerson (Feb 13, 2012)

EIngerson said:


> The_Traveler said:
> 
> 
> > I think it's a decent shot but there are elements in it that keep it from being better as it is.
> ...



This is what I meant though. ^^^^^^^ Not sure if you saw this one.


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## EIngerson (Feb 13, 2012)

Thanks to everyone that posted. My biggest point for this was to provoke people to give C&C when people ask for it. 

If you're a pro and you're sick of OP's trying to explain away everything you tell them, post anyway. People like me still read and learn from it. I know it get's redundant, but it holds value for a lot of people. Thanks in advance for sharing.

If you're a noob, post your thoughts. At worst, you'll learn what you were doing wrong or have your thought process corrected.  That's what you're here for. 

My personal advice to EVERYONE is stop listening to HOW things are said and pay attention to WHAT is being said. Sarcasm and context don't always come across in type, remember that.

Regards
Eric


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## Majeed Badizadegan (Feb 13, 2012)

thinkricky said:


> How did you do that so cleanly???





Demers18 said:


> thinkricky said:
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> 
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cs5, cloning, masking. spent maybe 5 minutes at most.. just saw a lot of people had the same complaint about the busy background, so took a shot at it. 





EIngerson said:


> Nice Rotanimod! That's impressive. Thanks for the compliment too.



thanks! & you're welcome. wouldn't have bothered with the edit if I didn't think it was a really good image to start with.


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## DiskoJoe (Feb 16, 2012)

Pretty decent shot. Good framing. I like the action and dirt flying. I agree with the stand in the back being a bit distracting. Finding a nice turn where you would just get natural scenery who have improved the shot. You could have possibly used a slightly faster shutter speed to freeze the action a bit better and a slight smaller aperture, maybe 5.6. The front of the bike is just a tad blurry compared to the rider which is nice and crisp. Just a few subtle changes. Maybe a bit more vivid on the color too. This shot could handle it given the subject and how he has lots of nice color popping to begin with.


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## EIngerson (Feb 16, 2012)

Thanks DiskoJoe.


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## BZSPhotography (Feb 27, 2012)

Love the photo, perfect exposure and the way you caught the action is perfect. However, the building in the background is distracting, and the mountains are out color, could've been some lens flare.


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## Hussain Frutan (Feb 27, 2012)

amazing shot


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## EIngerson (Mar 2, 2012)

Thanks BZS and Hussain.


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## Aloicious (Mar 5, 2012)

nice! I like it, composition is good, exposure is good, I do like the busy background removed in your edit a bit better, and you did a good job with it, but you can kindof tell that something was removed from there, a little more time in that area wouldn't hurt (but you mentioned that it was just a quick dirty edit)...I also agree with traveller, but the main thing that draws the attention away from the rider that I see is the highlighted mound of dirt in the lower left corner of the image, that's where I'd start adjusting to pull the attention up to the driver. 

overall though it is a great shot, I'm not much of a MX guy, but it looks like it was a lot of fun to shoot.


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## fokker (Mar 5, 2012)

The_Traveler said:


> As I see it, this picture isn't as effective as it could be because the rider is surrounded by areas that are as bright as he is.
> The ground is light, the hills are light. there are bright areas all other that pull the eye.
> Even the rider himself has bright areas that pull my eye away from his torso and upper half to his arm and his foot.
> 
> ...



I really do not know how you could look at that shot and not be immediately drawn to the rider as the subject.


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## sportsphotographer (Mar 5, 2012)

Like it, here.. and personally.. I like the puffy spectators.. it balances the "triangle" if you will.. (opening myself for potshots i'm sure..)  and shows that hey, someone gives a rats ash about this race... gives it more value (to me) than with those elements removed..  I love the color in the foreground - I love punchy colors and super strong contrast.. which is personal preference of course.... be nice to see a bit more punch in the blurry bits (contrast between hillside and fold but again, that's mostly preference. 

Ingerson,   and being able to see individual clods of dirt in what takes up a literal 4"x6" space on my screen is a very good thing.

...if I were going to remove anything, it'd be the patchy bits on the hillside - but not Miss Puff or the building.

Great job - well done.


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## EIngerson (Mar 6, 2012)

Thanks sportsphotogtrapher.


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