# Noobie reporting in! need help



## RitterPhoto (Jun 12, 2008)

Hello guys, first post.

i need help so ill cut to the chase

I built a pinhole camera several years ago, and took some rather wonderful images with it. I dont recall what type of photo paper i was using, it was glossy on one side and was Kodak paper on the other side. (this made dark room work easier because there was no question which side should be facing where!)

at any rate... I recall in the class, and the few times i used the camera, I loaded the film in the pinhole camera, and the shutter time for my camera was about 5 seconds of exposure max. the images were great.

recently, i found my old pinhole camera in perfect condition, and it peaked my wifes curiosity and as i told her about it she thought it would be nice to try it out again.

So... i went to a photo shop and purchased some Developer mix, and some Fixer and some kodak Tmax 100 4x5 film.

The first box of Tmax100 was wasted... as i didnt remember that it shouldnt be used with a safety light.

on to box 2.

box two was treated with much more care in handling. However... i have tried several exposure times for the film ranging from 1 second to 60 seconds and my film always develops a clear image as if i was holding a sheet of glass.

in your collective expert opinions... what am i doing wrong???

Im placing the film in the developer tray for about 5 minutes (based on other places i have read), drip dry... and then rinsing in a stop bath for about 1 minute. then into the fixer for a few minutes and presto... i go to check the negative and the film is completely clear... the only image i had remotely close to showing anything was clear with a purple hue.

i cant wrap my head around this problem.

is Tmax100 more of an experts film? should i be using a different type of film?

what do you guys think of the above situation?

thanks a million!


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## Helen B (Jun 12, 2008)

What sort of developer are you using, at what strength? Is there any chance that it has been contaminated with fixer?

Are you sure that you have the film in the right way round?

The exposure should be around 1 second or less, depending very much on the size of the pinhole. If 5 seconds was about right for B&W paper, less than 1 second should be OK for TMax 100, in the same lighting conditions.

Best,
Helen


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## RitterPhoto (Jun 12, 2008)

Im using Kodak professional Dektol. tap water for a stop bath and Kodak Professional Rapid Fixer

I was careful to avoid contamination, but anything is possible.


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## christopher walrath (Jun 12, 2008)

Clear neg after fix means no exposure. Or at the very least, not nearly enough. Might check your reciprocity numbers for TMax, I gott'em here somewhere. Hold on. (knock, rumble, rumble, SLAM! knock, scratch (Oh, there it is!) thump, thump, thump) OK.

1 second metered - 1 sec
2 sec - 2.5 sec
4 sec - 6 sec
8 sec - 12 sec
15 sec - 26 sec
30 sec - 55 sec
60 sec - 120 sec
120 sec - 250 sec

Hope it helps a little. And these numbers are based on experiments with 100TMX film.


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## RitterPhoto (Jun 12, 2008)

i dont know what im doing wrong... going to remix my chemicals tomorrow.

I tried a few seconds of exposure, then i tried like 30 seconds, 60 seconds 100 seconds and 4 minutes.

All film developed crystal clear. I dont get it.

this is not the film i used to work with, the film i used to work with was very easy, paper back glossy black and white film by kodak. my best images were between 2 and 5 seconds exposure depending on light levels.


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## nealjpage (Jun 12, 2008)

Dektol and t-max....It can work, but Dektol is more for paper.  I wonder if your mixtures are for paper and not film.


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## RitterPhoto (Jun 13, 2008)

what sort of paper should i use?


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## nealjpage (Jun 13, 2008)

If you've used Kodak before, I'd just go down to the place where you bought your film and get some Kodak paper.  Tell 'em what you're doing.  They should have the right paper for you.


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## Helen B (Jun 13, 2008)

Dektol is a very active developer, and it should produce an image within a minute or two with TMax if it is at paper strength. It's far from ideal as a film developer, however, but should be OK for pinhole negatives if you can control the developing times to be short enough - it would be better to use a less active developer such as any intended for film. D-76 or ID-11 are good general-purpose film developers.

As I mentioned before, if 5 seconds was enough for exposing paper, 1 second should give you more than enough exposure for TMax 100 without having to bother with reciprocity corrections. It's in the right ball park for the average pinhole in daylight.

There is something very strange about a 4 minute exposure in even dull daylight that gives no image whatsoever after five minutes in Dektol, even if the film had been put in the wrong way round. If it really has been exposed the problem is developer failure (as I mentioned earlier) - either contaminated developer or fixing before development. 

Are these images being made in sunlight? TMax 100 is about four or five stops faster than  most enlarging paper when the TMax is at its rated speed. Dektol, if anything, gives film quite a strong push because it is so active. Could you waste a sheet, or part of a sheet, of film by putting it into Dektol in the light and watching what happens? Can you check that the pinhole is letting light through?

Almost any B&W paper intended for enlarging will do. Resin coated (RC) paper works as well as anything, and it is easy to use.

Were you using the paper as a paper negative or was the negative image the final thing?

Good luck,
Helen


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## compur (Jun 13, 2008)

My guess:

sheet film turned wrong way around so you're not exposing the emulsion side


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## RitterPhoto (Jun 13, 2008)

nealjpage said:


> If you've used Kodak before, I'd just go down to the place where you bought your film and get some Kodak paper.  Tell 'em what you're doing.  They should have the right paper for you.



I got the paper at the school about 7 years ago which does not offer the class anymore. 

I'll search around for it though

@ Helen... im leaning toward contaminated Developer, and im going to remix it. The images were being made in mid afternoon sunlight between 2pm and 6pm. the pinhole is letting light through at least i looked through the loading port in the camera and held it up to the sky and saw light through the pinhole.

think ill remix and find an easier paper to work with.


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## christopher walrath (Jun 14, 2008)

I just wanna make sure. It almost sounds like you are referring to paper being in your camera. Don't take this wrong. Are you using paper or film in the camera? I'm sure you already know, and I always forget the simple stuff myself, but you need film in the camera not paper.


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## Helen B (Jun 14, 2008)

christopher walrath said:


> I just wanna make sure. It almost sounds like you are referring to paper being in your camera. Don't take this wrong. Are you using paper or film in the camera? I'm sure you already know, and I always forget the simple stuff myself, but you need film in the camera not paper.



Chris,

It's quite common to use paper in a pinhole camera, either reverse-processed* or, more usually, processed to a paper negative. It's very easy to work with, of course. The paper negative can then be contact printed or rephotographed onto another sheet of paper to create a positive, if desired. 

Most B&W enlarging paper has a speed of around EI 3 to 6 on the scale used for film (ISO paper speeds are different from ISO film speeds). It's not panchromatic, of course. You can also use colour paper, including Cibachrome. Pinhole Cibachromes look pretty damn good.

*In addition to materials intended for reverse-processing, you can reverse-process normal B&W paper. Traditional photo booths use paper in the camera, and reverse-process it.

Best,
Helen


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## RitterPhoto (Jun 14, 2008)

christopher walrath said:


> I just wanna make sure. It almost sounds like you are referring to paper being in your camera. Don't take this wrong. Are you using paper or film in the camera? I'm sure you already know, and I always forget the simple stuff myself, but you need film in the camera not paper.



its film, Tmax 100

The film i used to use was more of a paper. for the life of me i cant recall the type, but it was glossy on one side and matte on the other. and it was used for making negatives and using the plate glass with another identical sheet to make the positive.


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## Overkill-F1 (Jun 14, 2008)

I have used 8x10" graded paper in a pinhole camera. Just be sure that there isn't any manufacturer's printing on the back of the paper if you plan on contact printing it to make the positive.
...Terry
ps. I'm puzzled by: 'The film i used to use was more of a paper' ??
Some instant films have a paper backing that is removed during processing. Could it be Polariod type 55.


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## RitterPhoto (Jun 14, 2008)

I know its puzzling.

its hard to explain too, the negatives and the positives were on the same type of 'film'. It measures 4x5 out of the box, it is gloss on one side and says "Kodak" diagonally on the other side which is paper. just as you would get after developing any point and shoot camera down at the local one hour photo joint.

This film was slid into the back of the pinhole camera, exposed for a few seconds and developed in dektol, bathed in water and fixed in Kodak Fixer, then rinsed in a sink and hung to dry.

I made the positives through contact pritning with a sheet of glass and a 15 or 20 watt light bulb.

the paper backing was never removed during the process and is not removable.

as i cannot find any film like i used to work with i gave Tmax 100 a try, and using the same or similar process it always produces a crystal clear image. you can hold it up and see straight through it like clear plastic.


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## Helen B (Jun 14, 2008)

It does sound exactly like normal B&W printing paper. 

As I mentioned in a previous post, you can use almost any enlarging paper (B&W printing paper). I used to use graded (grade 2) singleweight Ilfobrom in pinhole cameras. Just ask at the photo store for normal B&W printing paper that doesn't have the paper name on the back. The lighter weight the better. Resin coated (RC) is OK, and easy to wash and dry. 

Apart from the safelight issue, TMax 100 should be OK to use. You do need to put it in the right way round, of course, but even if in the wrong way round you should have had something after a 4-minute exposure.

Best,
Helen


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## RitterPhoto (Jun 14, 2008)

thanks... ill try the enlarging paper.


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## RitterPhoto (Jun 20, 2008)

OK i guess this will be my last plea for help. 

I got the black and white enlarging paper, and i have been experimenting with exposure times.  from a few seconds to 15 minutes

all i seem to be developing is a little dot which looks oddly like a pin hole. of course the image is a negative so the dot is black. the longer the exposure time the blacker the dot.

any suggestions?

im about to throw in the towel


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## Overkill-F1 (Jun 20, 2008)

What is the size of the pinhole? What is the pinhole in (tinfoil)? It sounds like the pinhole is too large. Is it clear of dust? Both sides of the pinhole should be clean and clear of a burr in the foil. What is the focal length (distance from pinhole to paper)?
...Terry


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## RitterPhoto (Jun 21, 2008)

pinhole was made with a regular sewing needle in smooth foil. the pinhole appears clear of dust on both sides. focal length is approximately 5 - 6 inches.

thanks

making some progress - i have aimed the camera at a 4 bulb light fixture and gave it about 30 seconds exposure just to see what would develop. - when i developed it i could see the 4 light sources of the bulbs.

trying another shot indoors with a brighter, more focused light source on the subject now


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## RitterPhoto (Jun 21, 2008)

well i got an image... sort of. 

thanks for all of your help. the developing process is working at least.

and i can -sort of - tell what i have photographed. but the image seems VERY underexposed. even after exposing for an hour in indoor lighting (typical living room)

going to experiment with sunlight tomorrow again now that i have the weekend off and will have a lot of sun!


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## RitterPhoto (Jun 21, 2008)

sweet!

im sorted out. thanks for all of your suggestions and help. You have helped steer me on the right track and im getting some good shots.

thanks again everyone


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## Overkill-F1 (Jun 21, 2008)

I've had a lot of fun with pinhole cameras in the past. With a 5 minute exposure in bright daylight, I could take a exterior shot of a building and no people would be visible even though dozens of them passed through the scene. Sometimes they would stop and peer into the camera. I have walked into the scene and sat down on a bench for most of the exposure and then walk out to close the shutter.
...Terry


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## christopher walrath (Jun 21, 2008)

Man, piholes are sweet that way.  I'll have to dig it out but I made an eight minute exposure on a homemade matchbox pinhole 35mm of a riverwalk in Downtown Milton at night with trees on one side and brick walkway and lampposts on the other.  I walked through it taking a step every 15 seconds or so.  Just processed it.  I need to get it printed to see how it turned out.


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## yellowjeep (Jun 30, 2008)

Well how did it turn out?


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