# Choice of 3 film cameras. Which one?



## Mach2 (Jul 29, 2014)

I found a local thrift shop that has three film cameras, each for $40. I want one. But I don't know which one. I don't know a lot about photography, let alone film photography, and I didn't want to stand there for an hour fiddling around with them and wasting the nice lady's time. So I'm coming to you guys. 

Option 1: 
Pentax K1000
This is the one that I had a friend initially recommend to me. He told me it was great for a beginner to start with. 
Downside, this particular one has a broken light metre. It also doesn't come with a lens cover or camera case. 
Will I survive without the light metre? Or is that important? 

Option 2: 
Yashika FX-D Quartz 
Same price. This one comes with a camera case and a bag. 

Option 3:
Praktika MTL-3
This one also comes with a camera case and a lens cover. 

Is the Pentax still the one to go with? I'm going to try to do some research tonight, but I would really like some input from people who know more than me. 

_If you got a crush, don't be an octopus_


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## compur (Jul 29, 2014)

It's a good idea to have a working light meter if possible, especially when starting out. You can do without but it adds another complication for newbies to learn if you don't have a meter. You should also get an owners manual (most are free on the net).

Are you sure the K1000's light meter doesn't work? It may just need a fresh battery. The K1000's meter continues to drain the battery as long as there is no cap on the lens. Capping the lens is what turns off the meter. So that may be all that's wrong with it.

Any of the 3 camera's above would be fine as long as they are in good working condition. Options 1 & 2 probably need new light seals (the foam strips around the inside of film chamber to keep light out).


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## cgw (Jul 29, 2014)

#1: It's busted, so skip it, whatever its reputation.

#2 OK camera, though the Yashica/Contax mount might limit lens choices. BTW, does it come with a lens?

#3 Skip it. Uses a discontinued PX625 mercury cell. Its only virtue is the lens mount: Pentax M42 screw mount--common and cheap in popular focal lengths.

Keep shopping. Film cameras have never been cheaper, so don't settle for busted or fixer-uppers. These are relics worth, at best, half what the thrift store's asking.

My contrarian advice? Get the newest you can afford. 80s and 90s models aren't much more but deliver better value and fewer headaches.


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## Mach2 (Jul 29, 2014)

I'll ask about the battery on the Pentax. If that's all the problem is, I'll opt for that one. If not, I'll keep shopping. 

Thank you both for your input. 

_If you got a crush, don't be an octopus_


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## 480sparky (Jul 29, 2014)

Mach2 said:


> ........Will I survive without the light metre? Or is that important? _......._



Photographers, for almost a century, never had meters.  And when they did finally get them, they were separate from the camera.  Many shooters today STILL use them (myself included),  And once you truly understand exposure, you may not need a meter for some things..... experience will tell you.


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## gsgary (Jul 29, 2014)

cgw said:


> #1: It's busted, so skip it, whatever its reputation.
> 
> #2 OK camera, though the Yashica/Contax mount might limit lens choices. BTW, does it come with a lens?
> 
> ...



The battery for these old cameras is not an issue


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## timor (Jul 29, 2014)

Mach2 said:


> I don't know a lot about photography, let alone film photography,


 If you total beginner only Yashica FX-D from this trio will give you some chances if the light meter works properly. That all 30+ years old cameras. Electronics then were not so solid... CGW is right with his advice here.


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## timor (Jul 29, 2014)

gsgary said:


> cgw said:
> 
> 
> > #1: It's busted, so skip it, whatever its reputation.
> ...


 It is. FX will not operate without one.


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## compur (Jul 29, 2014)

I think what gsgary means is that batteries for most old cameras can be obtained fairly easily. It's true that voltages may not be exactly the same for some of them but there are solutions to that problem too.

If you want to know about battery problems ... I'm currently restoring an old volt/ohm meter that uses a 30-volt battery that costs $30 and there is no substitution available for it.  

I'm going to see about rigging up my own substitution using a combination of 3 common batteries wired together.


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## Mach2 (Jul 29, 2014)

Geez, that sounds like a nightmare, compur. 

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere the Pentax one just uses a plain old watch battery. 

And if the issue is more than that, I'll shop around more and find one in better condition. 

_If you got a crush, don't be an octopus_


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## cgw (Jul 29, 2014)

gsgary said:


> cgw said:
> 
> 
> > #1: It's busted, so skip it, whatever its reputation.
> ...



When it comes to the alternatives to mercury batteries, it's an issue, namely inconvenience, compared to a camera that takes cheap and available-everywhere AAs. Been there.


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## timor (Jul 29, 2014)

Mach2 said:


> I'm pretty sure I read somewhere the Pentax one just uses a plain old watch battery.
> 
> And if the issue is more than that, I'll shop around more and find one in better condition.
> 
> _If you got a crush, don't be an octopus_


Pentax K1000 had very long run: 1976 - 1997. The later models were using batteries still available today after extermination of mercury from the use. If the K100o in your store is newer model, then silver oxide battery like Energizer 357 will be the right one. And I think the clones of that model are available even in 1 dollar stores.


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## compur (Jul 29, 2014)

None of the K1000 cameras ever used a mercury battery. 

For the K1000 you can use an LR44, A76, S76, 357, AG13. They are all the same size and voltage and they are easy to find and cheap. The S76 is the best as it lasts longer and has a more stable output but any of the above will work fine. I buy them on eBay.

You will only need one for the K1000. Be sure to keep a lens cap on when not using the camera and the battery will last a long time.


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## limr (Jul 29, 2014)

The K1000 is not "busted" if the light meter doesn't work because the camera itself will work perfectly fine. And yes, it might just need a new battery, which are very cheap and easy to find.

I'm totally biased because I've been shooting with a K1000 for 20+ years and it is a solid camera. I mean s.o.l.i.d. Just a few weeks ago, I sent it out for a little tune-up: check shutter speeds, light seals, etc. It had a crack in the top plate from a tumble off a concrete wall that was replaced because it might cause light leaks eventually (I shot with it for a whole year after the plate cracked and I didn't have any light leaks). It also had some dark spots just starting to form in the prism, so that was replaced. Other than that? It worked the same way it did when I bought it.

It's a reliable tank, there are good, cheap options for lenses (check keh.com - even their "bargain" lenses are in really good shape and Pentax glass is really good), batteries are cheap AND they're not required for the camera to run.

Even if the light meter is actually broken and not just in need of a battery, I'd still suggest you try it out. You can download a light meter app on your smartphone quite easily. That's what I use when I'm shooting a camera that doesn't have a meter and the app has proven quite reliable.

And yes, IF you get the K1000 and IF it just needs a battery for the light meter to work, then also buy a lens cap somewhere. You can get them cheap, probably on Amazon even. Because as others have mentioned, the lens cap is how to turn the light meter "off" so you don't drain the battery.


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## timor (Jul 29, 2014)

compur said:


> None of the K1000 cameras ever used a mercury battery.


O, I even didn't know that. Thank's. 
Maybe in 1976 mercury batteries were already phased out, or Pentax just never used them ?


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## ristretto (Jul 29, 2014)

A functioning light meter is essential to you as a complete novice. Curveball: buy the Yashica and buy an additional M42 lens mount adapter for it. In addition to your Yashica's native 'C/Y' lens mount, you can then also choose from the huge quantities of M42 lenses available on used markets everywhere. Yashica's own 'ML' lenses are good, and Contax's Zeiss lenses of the same mount are great.


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## compur (Jul 29, 2014)

timor said:


> compur said:
> 
> 
> > None of the K1000 cameras ever used a mercury battery.
> ...



Pentax did use mercury batteries in their "Spotmatic" cameras and some other models that preceded the K-series. 

By the time the K-series models came out they had moved to other types of batteries.


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## timor (Jul 29, 2014)

compur said:


> timor said:
> 
> 
> > compur said:
> ...


O yes, right, Spotmatics. My F has LM still working, I have to check, what battery in it. Mercury ? Thank's compur. I never really cared about thos batteries as I always use mechanical cameras with hand held. 
But then some say, that Spotmatics are voltage independent, will work the same way on mercury, wain or silver - oxide cell. True ?


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## compur (Jul 29, 2014)

timor said:


> But then some say, that Spotmatics are voltage independent, will work the same way on mercury, wain or silver - oxide cell. *True ?*



Well, it is true that many people believe it is true.   

 However, in my opinion it is a myth.

 Some say the metering circuit of the Spotmatic has a voltage regulator that compensates for battery voltage variance. I have seen the circuit (it's in the Spotmatic service manual) and it contains no voltage regulator.  

If you think about it, why would the Pentax engineers include such a thing in their camera? Because they predicted that mercury batteries would be outlawed decades in the future and replaced by batteries of different voltage? Not likely. 

The good news is that most any camera that was designed to run on mercury cells can either be modified internally so that the battery voltage is dropped to the old mercury battery level or a substitute battery or adapter can do the same thing. With the Spotmatic, since its battery is so small, the only option I know of is to modify the camera by placing a little thing called a diode (of a certain type) inside the camera which drops the voltage of the substitute battery to the correct level. This is easy to do by anyone familiar with electronics soldering who has the tools to do so.

Or, one could simply compare the meter readings of the camera with one known to be accurate and compensate accordingly by adjustment of the ASA/ISO dial.

The Spotmatic F, however, uses the larger PX13/PX625 battery and there is a nifty solution for that called the MR-9 battery adapter which accepts an S76/LR44 type cell and drops its voltage to the correct level. It's a neat and easy fix that works with lots of cameras that use that battery.


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## limr (Jul 29, 2014)

Good thing the battery in my Spotmatic is well and truly stuck in the camera by corrosion so I don't have to worry about the modification :lmao:


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## vintagesnaps (Jul 29, 2014)

A Pentax might give you more lens options. I like using mechanical film cameras and there are a number from that era that would probably be equally good. I'm not familiar with the Yashica and the Praktica could be good but might be harder to find lenses for. 

I think there was a good suggestion earlier that it might be worth finding one that's in working condition. Preferably not just that the shutter releases etc. but that the seller had run film thru it. 

Starting out it might be good to have a working meter. I agree that experienced photographers can often determine settings based on experience but using the meter would enable you to get the shutter speed and aperture set to get proper exposures. A hand held meter could be an option too but I don't know if that would be as convenient when starting out.


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## timor (Jul 30, 2014)

compur said:


> However, in my opinion it is a myth.


Thanks compur. Yes, my F has PX625 of German make (Varta). Still good, I don't know, how old, don't care, use Sekonic with all my stuff anyway. No headache.


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## gsgary (Jul 30, 2014)

The small battery company have the aircell the replace the px625


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## cgw (Jul 30, 2014)

compur said:


> timor said:
> 
> 
> > But then some say, that Spotmatics are voltage independent, will work the same way on mercury, wain or silver - oxide cell. *True ?*
> ...



Easier said than done since it's wholly dependent on access to the metering circuitry and knowing which diode to transplant. Why not post a link showing how the surgery goes?

The problem with MR-9s is that they cost more than many of these thrift store classics. Worth it? Doubtful, given the alternatives


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## cgw (Jul 30, 2014)

gsgary said:


> The small battery company have the aircell the replace the px625



Zinc-air cells like the Wein cell (and various hearing aid batteries hacked to fit) are all the same and tend to be very short-lived compared to the old merc cells. Hearing aid batteries are far cheaper and readily available.

Anyone interested in solutions only needs to Google "PX625 replacements."


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## gsgary (Jul 30, 2014)

cgw said:


> Easier said than done since it's wholly dependent on access to the metering circuitry and knowing which diode to transplant. Why not post a link showing how the surgery goes?
> 
> The problem with MR-9s is that they cost more than many of these thrift store classics. Worth it? Doubtful, given the alternatives



I've got an mr9 they cost but over the year it is cheaper


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## cgw (Jul 30, 2014)

gsgary said:


> cgw said:
> 
> 
> > Easier said than done since it's wholly dependent on access to the metering circuitry and knowing which diode to transplant. Why not post a link showing how the surgery goes?
> ...




They're US$37. I bought a clean Nikon N90s body last year for forty bucks. Just too many newer, more capable film cameras available to bother. YMMV, as always.


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## compur (Jul 30, 2014)

cgw said:


> Easier said than done since it's wholly dependent on access to the metering circuitry and knowing which diode to transplant. Why not post a link showing how the surgery goes?



Most everything is "easier said then done." But, if "easy" is your goal, buy a digital point & shoot camera.  


I said it is easily done by someone familiar with electronics soldering and who has the tools to do so. I should add that it also requires a bit of disassembly of the camera to access the wiring. However, the meter circuits on these old cameras are simple and the diode can be placed most anywhere in the circuit so the easiest way is usually to place it next to the battery compartment, an area that most often requires only minor surgery to access. In most cases all you need to do is remove the top or bottom cover of the camera. I would think anyone who has done electronics work would not find this too challenging a task though a few tools are required.

Here is a video that shows the process on a Canon FTb:






The above example, an FTb, is probably one of the most time consuming since it requires removal of the top cover. Still, it's not all that difficult if you take it one step at a time and have reasonably good tools. On many cameras the battery compartment is on the bottom which makes things much easier -- removing the bottom cover only requires removal of a few screws and off it comes.

There are lots of other How-To articles and videos on the web that show this sort of operation.



> ... and knowing which diode to transplant.


 

Here is an example of a diode that will work:
Germanium Diode for Voltage Dropping Applications


Electronics components usually have equivalent components so there are other diodes that will work as well. Search the web for these if necessary. If you live near a reasonably large metro area you can probably purchase such a diode locally for less than a dollar.

*Now, let me say again that all of this is for those who have done some electronics work and have the proper tools and inclination to do this sort of thing. For the rest, the MR-9 battery adapter is a far simpler solution for any camera or meter that uses the PX13/PX625 battery.*



> The problem with MR-9s is that they cost more than many of these thrift store classics. Worth it? Doubtful, given the alternatives



I see three MR-9 adapters on eBay USA right now ranging in price from $9-$14 shipped. Since you only have to buy it once and can use it on any number of cameras, it seems like a pretty reasonably priced solution to me and does not require any of the above tinkering.


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## gsgary (Jul 30, 2014)

cgw said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> > cgw said:
> ...



So far all my film cameras are battery free but i could be getting a Rollei XF35 which will use the adapter


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## cgw (Jul 30, 2014)

_I see three MR-9 adapters on eBay USA right now ranging in price from $9-$14 shipped. Since you only have to buy it once and can use it on any number of cameras, it seems like a pretty reasonably priced solution to me and does not require any of the above tinkering_. 


I'm thinking there's a bit of chance that the HK knock-offs don't really deliver. If you want the CRIS originals that work--I have a couple and they do--you're not going to get 'em at those prices. Most simply allow a smaller zinc-air hearing aid battery(notice the holes in the cheapo adapter?) to fit in a PX625 battery chamber. For 6 bucks, those are probably worth it. The others? Caveat emptor.

Battery woes aside, 60s-70s SLRs aren't exactly free of age-related issues. With camera repair usually exceeding their cost(assuming you can find it), old manual bodies can be a crap shoot now. Not sure anyone just starting film photography wants the headaches.


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## compur (Jul 30, 2014)

cgw said:


> _I see three MR-9 adapters on eBay USA right now ranging in price from $9-$14 shipped. Since you only have to buy it once and can use it on any number of cameras, it seems like a pretty reasonably priced solution to me and does not require any of the above tinkering_.
> 
> 
> I'm thinking there's a bit of chance that the HK knock-offs don't really deliver.



I have several that I've used for years and they've worked fine. The MR-9 is simply a metal case with a diode in it. The diode in the originals probably comes from the same place as those made in HK.




> Battery woes aside, 60s-70s SLRs aren't exactly free of age-related issues. With camera repair usually exceeding their cost(assuming you can find it), old manual bodies can be a crap shoot now. Not sure anyone just starting film photography wants the headaches.



Yes, it's terribly adventurous and should never be attempted by wimps, whiners or weenies.


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## gsgary (Jul 30, 2014)

cgw said:


> I see three MR-9 adapters on eBay USA right now ranging in price from $9-$14 shipped. Since you only have to buy it once and can use it on any number of cameras, it seems like a pretty reasonably priced solution to me and does not require any of the above tinkering.
> 
> I'm thinking there's a bit of chance that the HK knock-offs don't really deliver. If you want the CRIS originals that work--I have a couple and they do--you're not going to get 'em at those prices. Most simply allow a smaller zinc-air hearing aid battery(notice the holes in the cheapo adapter?) to fit in a PX625 battery chamber. For 6 bucks, those are probably worth it. The others? Caveat emptor.
> 
> Battery woes aside, 60s-70s SLRs aren't exactly free of age-related issues. With camera repair usually exceeding their cost(assuming you can find it), old manual bodies can be a crap shoot now. Not sure anyone just starting film photography wants the headaches.



Not so much when you buy Leica mine have be trouble free both from 1983


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## cgw (Jul 30, 2014)

_"Yes, it's terribly adventurous and should never be attempted by wimps, whiners or weenies._"

Just not willing to let nostalgia and semi-functional relics get between me and a shot, especially when better is available for the same or less. 

Guess that sort of endlessly repeated dogma and blind acceptance works on APUG. Not for me, bro.


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## limr (Jul 30, 2014)

Well, there's your problem - you only have _semi-_functional relics! Try fully functional ones. It makes a difference. :mrgreen:

We get it. You like newer models. Can we move on now?


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## Mach2 (Jul 30, 2014)

Haven't really been following the discussion on this thread too closely, as half the stuff being debated was over my head. 

But anywhoooo, here's an update. 

Got myself a working K1000 on EBay. Should be working, anyways. Seller said that the battery was good, and it comes with a wwrist strap and 50mm lens. I'm excited. I paid a little more in shipping than I'd like, but oh well. It's mine. :3

_If you got a crush, don't be an octopus_


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## compur (Jul 30, 2014)

^ Good. Let us know how it goes.


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## Mach2 (Jul 30, 2014)

Will do! I can't wait to try it out. 

_If you got a crush, don't be an octopus_


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## limr (Jul 30, 2014)

Mach2 said:


> Haven't really been following the discussion on this thread too closely, as half the stuff being debated was over my head.
> 
> But anywhoooo, here's an update.
> 
> ...



  Show us pictures when you have 'em! (and remember to get a lens cap to keep that battery from draining too fast.)


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## Mach2 (Jul 30, 2014)

Lens cap will be the first thing I make sure it has. XD

And yes. Pics will be posted. :3 I'm so excited for it to get here. 

_If you got a crush, don't be an octopus_


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## pete72 (Aug 12, 2014)

timor said:


> Maybe in 1976 mercury batteries were already phased out?


The Olympus OM-1N always used Mercury batteries & that continued until 1987.
You can get modern equivalents with the same voltage or a conversion done on the camera to take a more common type of modern battery.
Either way, you don't need a battery for the K1000. Using a separate meter is good fun.


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