# Advice PLEASE......



## Southerngal (Dec 17, 2007)

I have 2 questions.....

1.  I took pics a few months ago for a client and her ex-father-in-law saw them on my web page.  He wants to order some of his grandson.  The client does not want me to sell to him.  What would others do in this situation?

2.  The mother of the same client recently ordered some more Christmas cards from me.  Let me mention that this client is somewhat of a friend....well, a friend of a friend, so I have tried very hard to please them in every way.  The ordered around $250s worth about 3 weeks ago and I took them to her, because I was in the area.  I don't do this for everyone.  I guess she thought that delivering the pics was a part of my service, but it isn't.  How many others deliver.....when I say deliver I mean pick up money drop off pics etc...?  She wanted me to bring them to her today.....30min out of my way.  I told her that I wouldn't be in the area today or the rest of the week for that matter.  I offered to meet her closer to my home and she basically said keep them.  What do you do?


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## jols (Dec 17, 2007)

i don't deliver unless its convenient to me.

i would not sell the picks to grandad without the mothers permission


don't get involved with family feuds


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## bellacat (Dec 17, 2007)

i agree with Jols. If i happen to be in the area I will deliver myself but I have had others come to me as well.

And for the granddad I would say I can not sell them without the mothers written consent since she paid for the session and of course its her child.


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## Ls3D (Dec 17, 2007)

Time to stow that southern hospitality and not let people take advantage of you. Though it would be nice to have another sale, sometimes NO is the best decision one can make in business, especially when the client is being childish.

-Shea


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## JDS (Dec 17, 2007)

I'd agree with all the above - the client needs to give permission for others to order, whether it's her ex-father-in-law, or her sister.  Don't get involved in any family 'issues' for sure.  Go with the fact that it was her paid session and she has first rights (for lack of a better phrase, but you get the idea).

As for delivering prints - I delivered on my first (and only, so far) wedding, to be sure they were pleased with the product.  Otherwise, for my ordering process, I add the cost of S&H to the order, and it is itemized, so it's pretty much implied they'll be mailed.  You might want to consider putting some sort of language in your contract (If you use contracts) or in any other literature you may give your clients so that they know what the deal is from the beginning.

It just helps to communicate more, than not enough.  Sometimes it just takes situations like this to work out all those kinds of details we didn't think of the first time.


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## Southerngal (Dec 17, 2007)

Thanks for the advice guys.....it's just so aggravating.  They really do expect me to bring the cards to them.  I explained that I don't normally do it and that I would if I was planning to be in the area, but I'm not.  It's the holidays and I'm busy as well.  They don't want to meet in my area.  I don't know what to do at this point.


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## bellacat (Dec 17, 2007)

charge them to have it shipped to them. that is what i would do.


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## Sweetsomedays (Dec 17, 2007)

I include $4 shipping and handling fee on my order form for all my print orders...
And I agree with what everyone else said.


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## jemmy (Dec 17, 2007)

i am *considering* delivering final orders to clients as of next year.  at present they come to me for the   pre-consultation, then the shoot, then the viewing and then the pickup!  i think it might be a nice gesture to start hand delivering orders - those that are in relatively close proximity to me.  Not sure though!


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## Southerngal (Dec 17, 2007)

I have really bent over backwards for them.  I delivered the first and second orders.....as well as their proofs.  I don't feel that I should go out of my way.  Her reason for not picking them up is that she has to work this week.  She doesn't want to have to pay for them to be mailed to her.  She wasn't happy that I charged her a little extra this order bc she only ordered 10 more cards.....Im charged extra when I dont have a min order of 20 and I also rushed them, which was extra, because she wanted them today and she didn't tell me until Thursday of last week.  She is stressing me out.


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## AprilRamone (Dec 17, 2007)

I mail everything.  The proofs & the reprint order.  I just think it's more convenient for everyone.  I would like to meet with my clients, but I hate the idea of making them come to me for everything, and that also means I'd have to keep my house more clean  And, always be around and I'm really busy.  So...I mail everything.  I think it might be easier to sell bigger items and once I have samples of everything I think I may charge to mail items, but it would be free to meet with me and view proofs and order in person.  We'll see if I decide to go that route though.
However, if I know a client is really in a rush and I'm going to be in their neighborhood or sometimes even if I'm not, I'll drop stuff off for them.  I don't think any of my clients expect this of me though and if they did, I would definitely put a stop to those expectations 

Sorry to hear that you can't make that sale to the Granddad, but I agree with the other posters.  If she specifically asked you not to, I definitely wouldn't because she'll probably never want to use you again.  
Hopefully things will smooth out for them and he can come back at a later time to buy prints.


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## Sweetsomedays (Dec 17, 2007)

Would it perhaps be worth it in this instance to swallow the cost your self and just over night them to her to make the customer happy?
In future perhaps include the charge for shipping in the order with the additional charge and option of overnight delivery either by you (to cover your time and gas) or post office...whatever you decide is good for you.


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## Mike_E (Dec 18, 2007)

If you have delivered free of charge for this customer in the past you should only change your policy -to them- before any new orders.  If they ordered and you agreed to deliver the product then (not just by hand) you should stand by what is normal and proper in their eyes.

If they order more, then would be the time to tell them of the new delivery practice.

I do hand deliver 'nice' orders but I charge for the time and travel.

If you don't give exemplary customer service you will never have much of a business.  Even if that means bending over backwards for misunderstandings.

HTH

mike


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## Southerngal (Dec 18, 2007)

I guess the thing that bothers me is that I don't deliver for anyone and they know that.  I did in the past only bc I was in the area and the daughter is a friend.  I will not be in the area at all and I too am very busy.  I already discounted the session fee, the per card price, and the entire first order by 15% for this woman......I even edited her face in a few pics upon her request....she pitched a fit when I charged her for that even thought it is on my price list and I waved it.  I understand that sometimes you need to swallow your pride, but is this one of those times?  Should I really let a friend run over me.  I did editing work for them and didnt even charge for it.  I just don't want her to think that it is okay to take advantage of me.


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## Sweetsomedays (Dec 18, 2007)

Honestly in this case I think I would. And I totally agree maybe you could include your policies with a friendly reminder with the order. OR send something out her stating your "new/updated" policies. It doesn't mean you can't hand deliver to someone else in the future, she doesn't need to know about what you do on your own time.
I think customer service is so so important but you do also have to make a stand in whatever way you find that to be appropriate. If she is a grabby friend/customer maybe in the future when she wants to schedule a session with you you should tell her your booked up


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## dpolston (Dec 18, 2007)

My 2 cents: I think you need to play the copyright card being that the mother is the legal guardian of the grandson (son). You will need her permission. 

I personally think it's despicable that she is "playing" her son in this tug-of-war. I know it's an "ex" situation but you shouldn't penalize the grandfather/grandson relationship. (That was personal editorial by the way)

And... I hand deliver all of my product. Proofs, prints, re-prints... just because I for one think it's a better way to market myself ala "Fuller Brush Salesman". Plus I really don't do that many clients to _NOT _hand deliver them.


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## Southerngal (Dec 18, 2007)

I think that Im just going to leave it alone.  My husband offered to carry them to  work with him, which isn't far from their business and meet them  on his lunch...they dont want to meet.  They don't want to pay for shipping and I really don't feel like I want to swallow my pride on this one.  I was upfront with them and  they know that.  She won't pay for shipping bc she is complaining about what she has already spent.....which I feel was very reasonable.  I don't know.  I have never had to deal with someone like her and it is driving me crazy.  

Here is what she spent and what she got......am I over charging?
She got 29 different 4x6s, 4 different 5x7s, 4 different 8x10s and 55 5x7s greeting cards......all for $225......her session fee was $55 for 1 1/2hrs and 6 people.....32 proofs, not including the christmas card proofs....and editing work for free....Should she be complaining?

A few of the pics.....


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## jols (Dec 18, 2007)

no she should not be complaining!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

could you meet half way    no hang you said your husband would deliver  

mmmmmmmm

id stick with that saying thats the best you can do.


has she paid you yet??


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## Southerngal (Dec 18, 2007)

jols said:


> no she should not be complaining!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> could you meet half way    no hang you said your husband would deliver
> 
> ...




The order above....yes she has.  The order she is wanting me to bring to her....no, she hasn't.


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## jols (Dec 18, 2007)

TRICKY ONE.

THE QUESTION IS DO YOU WANT TO LOSE THE MONEY CAUSE THATS A POSSIBILITY

TRY CALLING HER BLUFF AND SAY ITS YOUR HUSBAND DELIVERING OR SHE WILL HAVE TO WAIT TIL AFTER XMAS.


oops sorry didnt mean to shout:lmao:


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## Ls3D (Dec 18, 2007)

The first 3 are really great! She definitely got a good deal IMO. Now you should probably move on, not give it any more of your time or emotion. The next shoot is on the way!

-Shea


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## emogirl (Dec 18, 2007)

stick to your guns...dont deliver, express to her that you only delivered before because you happened to be there...if you were a store, she would come to you>>>>otherwise, she pays shipping...she's just darn cheap!!!


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## wildmaven (Dec 19, 2007)

You need to ask yourself this, is losing 30min of your time is worth the bad press this woman will give everyone she knows if you don't deliver them? 

I'd deliver them, and then make it a point to be up front about what is expected in the future. Once you start doing nice things for clients they do come to expect them. Yes, it is nasty that she's being so difficult, but just do it and then never see her again.


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## Southerngal (Dec 19, 2007)

She has decided to meet my husband on his lunch break....he works fairly close to her business.

It's not a matter of just not wanting to....I really don't have the time.  I have 2 small kids....both in their last days of school.....days have been booked w/Christmas parties.....not to mention that my son's 3rd birthday was yesterday and I spent half of today in the doctor's office w/him b/c he is sick.  I don't have 30 min to spare and drag my kids in to the city during her hours of choice.  I shouldn't have to explain my daily schedule to this woman.  I understand that this may cause problems for my future business, but when your husband works 50-60 hours a week and you have to play super Mom and be in 5 places at once.....sometimes you just can't please everyone.  Im a Mom first and their schedule is always priority.


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## jchantelau (Dec 20, 2007)

Southerngal said:


> She has decided to meet my husband on his lunch break....he works fairly close to her business.
> 
> It's not a matter of just not wanting to....I really don't have the time. I have 2 small kids....both in their last days of school.....days have been booked w/Christmas parties.....not to mention that my son's 3rd birthday was yesterday and I spent half of today in the doctor's office w/him b/c he is sick. I don't have 30 min to spare and drag my kids in to the city during her hours of choice. I shouldn't have to explain my daily schedule to this woman. I understand that this may cause problems for my future business, but when your husband works 50-60 hours a week and you have to play super Mom and be in 5 places at once.....sometimes you just can't please everyone. Im a Mom first and their schedule is always priority.


 
Its hard to deal with people like her, they never seem satisfied.  I will say though that I would never tell a customer I don't have time even if they are difficult, they pay my bills and I will go out of my way to make them happy, unless they know upfront that you don't do that and in this case you did once before.

I offer the delivery service for all my customers.  I do more video and photo slideshow work but will be adding photography to my business.  I've driven 40 minutes out of my way to hand deliver 3 VHS to DVD conversions for a customer and did not charge them extra.  Just from that one customer I picked up 5 new clients.  I think I got my money back.  I would have driven the 30 minutes and been done with it right from the start.  

I'm glad you were able to work out.  Great shots by the way.


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## Southerngal (Dec 20, 2007)

jchantelau said:


> Its hard to deal with people like her, they never seem satisfied.  I will say though that I would never tell a customer I don't have time even if they are difficult, they pay my bills and I will go out of my way to make them happy, unless they know upfront that you don't do that and in this case you did once before.
> 
> I offer the delivery service for all my customers.  I do more video and photo slideshow work but will be adding photography to my business.  I've driven 40 minutes out of my way to hand deliver 3 VHS to DVD conversions for a customer and did not charge them extra.  Just from that one customer I picked up 5 new clients.  I think I got my money back.  I would have driven the 30 minutes and been done with it right from the start.
> 
> I'm glad you were able to work out.  Great shots by the way.



Again, I understand what you are saying, but this was a friend that understood that I don't deliver and that the reason I did before was b/c I was in the area.  It is great that you can deliver, but I don't offer it.  I personally don't have the time.  Im I stay at home Mom with a 3 and 5 year old that I always have.....what work I do get done is between the hours of 9pm and 3am.....lol.  I didnt initially tell her that I didnt have time, well not in those words....I just expressed that I wouldn't be in the area.....The fact is I have been very busy and just haven't had the time to drag my kids to her business during the hours she would like.  When you can't you just can't.....I don't know how else to say it.  

Thanks for the compliment.


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## jols (Dec 20, 2007)

i understane if you dont deliver you dont deliver and thats the end of it..but stay at home mums make me laugh when they say they dot have the time. what do you do all day.?


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## Southerngal (Dec 20, 2007)

jols said:


> i understane if you dont deliver you dont deliver and thats the end of it..but stay at home mums make me laugh when they say they dot have the time. what do you do all day.?



Are you kidding me?!?!?!?!  You must not have kids or know of any.  It's not an easy job and I can't believe that someone would imply such a thing.  What don't I do all day????  Currently Im eating lunch and checking this.....when Im done I will be doing laundry and finishing the last coat of stain on my steps....all while taking care of a sick 3 year old and getting dinner ready....oh, and balancing my check book and paying bills.  What I do during my day is my business, but I will not drag my kids all over town for a selfish client, especially in  40 degree weather when my son is sick!   Its not an easy thing to load 2 kids that are tired and ill in to your car and fact is she knew that I don't deliver.  Im very positive I stay busier that you.....What do you do all day??????????


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## jols (Dec 20, 2007)

my child is 6 and at school now and i work from 9am til 3. then do photos and 'housework after we eat then bths and stories then bed, then i do nothing.

when my little boy was home i used to have the housework done by 10am then spend the rest of the day having fun with my boy.

then we would eat have baths stories then bed  then i would do nothing!!!!!

so thats what i did 

its all about organising your time.

oh and in the summer hols we are on the beach by 10am and not home til 5

so basically i just had a laugh before he went to school and now he is at school i work


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## jols (Dec 20, 2007)

just re read this post and thought id been a bit harsh but then i read both your kids are at school.

i really cant add anymore and stick by what i said


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## Southerngal (Dec 20, 2007)

jols said:


> just re read this post and thought id been a bit harsh but then i read both your kids are at school.
> 
> i really cant add anymore and stick by what i said



My daughter is at school until 230.  My son goes to creative play time 2 or 3 days a week for 3 hours.....we call it school, sorry for the misunderstanding.  I commend you for being able to have everything done by 10am....and Im probablly one of the most organized people ever.....like I said I don't deliver and I have had an extremely busy week.....parties at schools, doctor's appointments etc.....If I was planning to be in the are it wouldn't have been an issue, but I wasn't and I have had my son everyday this week.  It's hard for me to believe that your home and life is so organized that it can all be done by 10am.....I find that funny.....then again your house may not be in as good a shape as mine and you may be fine with that.


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## wildmaven (Dec 20, 2007)

Southerngal said:


> 1. I took pics a few months ago for a client and her ex-father-in-law saw them on my web page. He wants to order some of his grandson. The client does not want me to sell to him. What would others do in this situation?


 
May I ask how he saw the photos in the first place?


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## Southerngal (Dec 20, 2007)

wildmaven said:


> May I ask how he saw the photos in the first place?



He actually works with my husband.....it's a huge company.  My husband gave my card to a go worker and she recognized the little boy and forwarded the address the the granddad.....he said he would like to purchase some.  I asked the mother and she pitched a fit.....going in to too much information.  I feel bad for him, but he hasn't said anything else about it.


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## Allsmiles7282 (Dec 20, 2007)

I would never ever order anything without having their money in my hand!  

And I ALWAYS deliver if they are in my area. (not in another state)  

It is such a nice touch and it really makes people feel comfortable and like you care about them.  I put a lot of time, money, and effort into my packaging and delivery.  I make it like a present that they are getting.  I have these cookies that look like fortune cookies made and inside say "Thank You!", I always bring the kid and balloon or some candy or whatever when I deliver. 

My market is the rich so they really appreciate these things.  They basically fuel my business so there is no such thing as "inconveniencing me" its all about them.

I truly beleive this is what gets me a lot of repeat business!

BUT, I don't have kids and I have the time to do it.

You have to do what works for you and make that your policy and stick to it.  Ya know?


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## Southerngal (Dec 20, 2007)

I would love to have the money to add extra touches like that, but we are single income and any money I make is needed.  I have just started out, though....maybe it'll get better.  My market, so far seems to love my work, but are lacking in the money to order exactly what they want.  I don't advertise at all......any advice in that area would be great.

The issue has been resolved and she has her cards.  She actually apologized to me.  This thing all started with her basically demanding that I bring them to her on Monday and when I expressed that I wouldn't be in the area due to prior engagements she flipped.


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## jchantelau (Dec 20, 2007)

Allsmiles7282 said:


> I would never ever order anything without having their money in my hand!
> 
> And I ALWAYS deliver if they are in my area. (not in another state)
> 
> ...


 
Nice touch!

Lots of people have busy schedules, in fact I work a full time job outside of my business plus take classes at night.  I also have a wife and 4 year old and I will tell you I will find time to get it done for the customer.  It may not be exactly when they want it but I make sure to communicate with them.  The customer could care less about my busy schedule, they don't care.  A person like her I want off my plate quickly and will do what it takes to get it done.

I may not agree with you but I respect your decision and again I'm glad you found a resolution that works.


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## Southerngal (Dec 20, 2007)

jchantelau said:


> Nice touch!
> 
> Lots of people have busy schedules, in fact I work a full time job outside of my business plus take classes at night.  I also have a wife and 4 year old and I will tell you I will find time to get it done for the customer.  It may not be exactly when they want it but I make sure to communicate with them.  The customer could care less about my busy schedule, they don't care.  A person like her I want off my plate quickly and will do what it takes to get it done.
> 
> I may not agree with you but I respect your decision and again I'm glad you found a resolution that works.



Thanks!!!  Im glad to be done with it.  She didn't want to compromise in the beginning at all.  She wanted them Monday afternoon and I just couldn't do it....she basically said keep them.....I wasn't about to cancel appointments for her.  My husband works till 6 or 7, so I had no other option.


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## jols (Dec 21, 2007)

Southerngal said:


> My daughter is at school until 230. My son goes to creative play time 2 or 3 days a week for 3 hours.....we call it school, sorry for the misunderstanding. I commend you for being able to have everything done by 10am....and Im probablly one of the most organized people ever.....like I said I don't deliver and I have had an extremely busy week.....parties at schools, doctor's appointments etc.....If I was planning to be in the are it wouldn't have been an issue, but I wasn't and I have had my son everyday this week. It's hard for me to believe that your home and life is so organized that it can all be done by 10am.....I find that funny.....then again your house may not be in as good a shape as mine and you may be fine with that.


 


my house is perfectly fine thanks


anyway we went off the point i think

if you dont want to deliver thats fine but i think we have both learnt something hee dont assume the customer knows waht you are thinking and i think allsmiles thread of her welcome pack is well worth a read. i certainly have picked up a few tips.

anyway i hope your family have a nice christmas and look forward to reading more threads.


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## Southerngal (Dec 21, 2007)

jols said:


> my house is perfectly fine thanks
> 
> 
> anyway we went off the point i think
> ...



Thanks....I hope you and your family have a nice Christmas as well.

I did read allsmiles thread and when and if I do have the business and funds to do something like that I may consider, but right now that is a little more than I can do.

Thanks again.


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## Sweetsomedays (Dec 21, 2007)

I agree with both of you here. I think what allsmiles has put together is awesome but out of my budget for the time being. For the time being i plan to put a packet together that includes pricing, what to expect from a session, delivery options, how to select a location and the like, etc 
I think it's good for clients to know what they should expect from you and you can do it affordably!


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## jols (Dec 21, 2007)

can i point you to vistaprint.com?


i use the uk site and i have checked out the usa one for you.

business cards are free    yes free.

i order 250 at a time and you only pay for posting.

other stuff is free to at times fridge magnets ect ect ect 

check it out


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## Southerngal (Dec 21, 2007)

jols said:


> can i point you to vistaprint.com?
> 
> 
> i use the uk site and i have checked out the usa one for you.
> ...



I use them for my business cards.....I just don't have a convenient way to circulate them.....I will be displaying them in a few local stores after the first of the year, though.


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## jols (Dec 21, 2007)

post then through letter boxes and on the the back write something like 

free 8 x  6  photo with every session booked.


that sometimes gets the bookings.

people always like something for nothing.


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