# What bugs me about the new SLT-FF Camera



## DonSchap (Jan 13, 2013)

One of the less than spectacular releases of this past year was the SLT-a99. While many will tout the improved 24MP sensor's ISO and noise response, the real improvements that should be in the camera are STILL missing.

One thing that has been a true bother to many flash photographers is the continued use of SONY's (Minolta) proprietary infra-red pre-flash method of synchronizing and triggering electronic flashes. A few of the unfortunate historical aspects of this IR-flash control system are:


 when you have natural (sunlight) or artifical light, you can easily interfere with signal. 
 if there is any kind of solid obstruction between the camera and the flash, again... interference or complete failure to trigger. 
 the Optical Sighting-angles, where the IR-receiver of the slave flash unit is just out of alignment with facing the IR-trigger TTL unit (usually on the camera's hot shoe). You will not know if the flash will fire, until you actually try to use it. You very well could miss important shots, when you are adjusting the angle of your lights, to improve shadows on your subject. It's just a lot more work and frustration, having to worry about this. 


The reasonable and technological solution is 2.4 MHz _*RF*_... which is an omnidirectional radio signal that does not suffer from optical impediments and can synch a flash at nearly 100-feet, w/o failure. First time, every time. You can even trigger your flash on the opposite side of a wall.

Now, there are a few third party RF-remote flash trigger/TTL systems out there, such as the Pixel "KING" (for SONY) or the newer Phottix "Odin" (for SONY). Issues with these units are that they have some control over TTL flash units, but are "buggy" on the a99, because SONY has decided to go back to an advanced ISO hot shoe on that camera (see image below). 







The third party folks are having a heck of a time keeping up with SONY's changes. Who suffers? We do! Let's face it,we would much prefer a true manufacturer's design at work, not some inferior add-on.

SONY really needs to step-up their game and build reliable _RF-flash triggering/control_ into the new *SLT-a99* or release something similar, perhaps an "SLT-a99-RF". This solution was recommended more than two-years ago and they still choose to ignore this wise and far more practical idea, which is leaving many SONY photographers exasperated and frustrated with this brand new $3000 release. 

Anyway, the a99 does not have a *WiFi link*, either, so off-loading image data still requires that either the SD card be removed and put into a reader... or by using a USB wire and a laptop. That can be very inconvenient, for the user on the go. Not having to drag a laptop around is quite a benefit, if you are shooting in the field.

For something that is supposed to be "the most advanced camera"... it's still using 20th-Century technology for rather basic photography functions. Let's take it up a notch, SONY and make this "flag ship" sail in the 21st-Century! 

Yes, I am disappointed. I really expected a true "master photography" controller-camera, this time, and found it to be another advanced consumer FF. It still is not the "professional's tool", in my opinion. C'mon, SD cards? Really? :roll:


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## Kolia (Jan 13, 2013)

Your title is misleading. Should be "What bugs me about Sony's Wireless Flash"...

Have you used it personally ?  I've seen a few online video demonstrating it and people seem to like it.


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## DonSchap (Jan 13, 2013)

Let me be real clear about this... the need for a reliable flash trigger system is what is at stake, here.  Radio Frequency triggering/ratio control is an advancement that is years  behind where it should be, at this point. Third parties (PocketWizard,  Pixel, Phottix and even Paull C. Buff's _Cybersync_ system) are  running amok with its implementation and I contend that 2.4MHz RF  trig/control should have been incorporated in the SONY a850/a900 FF  DSLRs, back in 2008. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Current IR-tech (Infra-red) need to be vacated... or kept as a legacy,  but not as the primary flash control system anymore. I suggest better  method over continued madness.

They keep missing the obvious and instead of addressing the "real need",  they have thrown 'still photographers' the "movie mode", which many don't  use, because video is definitely NOT still-photography. They are two  completely different approaches to imaging a subject. Video requires  _continuous lighting_ and still photography often requires precise TIMING  and SYNCHRONIZATION to its light source.

At worst, it would be a $100 increase in the camera's price. If I could  get away from the unreliability of infamous  "Infra-red Pre-flash", it  would be a price well-worth paying, considering the base camera system  is already over $3000.


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## rexbobcat (Jan 13, 2013)

No camera system has radio trigger technology built into it that I know of.


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## 2fastlx (Jan 13, 2013)

DonSchap said:


> Let me be real clear about this... the need for a reliable flash trigger system is what is at stake, here.  Radio Frequency triggering/ratio control is an advancement that is years  behind where it should be, at this point. Third parties (PocketWizard,  Pixel, Phottix and even Paull C. Buff's _Cybersync_ system) are  running amok with its implementation and I contend that 2.4MHz RF  trig/control should have been incorporated in the SONY a850/a900 FF  DSLRs, back in 2008.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So really your beef is with all camera manufacturers???


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## Kolia (Jan 13, 2013)

Maybe Pocket Wizard and company should relinquish their respective patent and go out of business instead ?

In automotive, nobody else makes an hybrid like the Prius because Toyota has patented their engine/drive train layout and nobody can copy it without paying royalties. All the other manufacturers have the technologie and could, but don't want to pay Toyota. So everybody needs to come up with a different approach. Pushing innovation forward. 

I suspect the same happens in every business.


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## jake337 (Jan 13, 2013)

Quit bitchin and buy some pocket wizards like everyone else......


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## DonSchap (Jan 13, 2013)

jake337 said:


> Quit bitchin and buy some pocket wizards like everyone else......




Jake, I do have a complete set of PWII+s (5x @ $199/ea) and a complete set of Pixel KINGs (for SONY) ($399 fr the suite - 1x trans & 4x rcvr). I put up the cash... and what I have still cannot scratch what I am proposing as the new primary flash control system. The fact is that we need to quit living in the past with this silly Infra-red Pre-flash technology, still employed in the cameras. It is limited, unreliable and if you shoot for a living... wastes a lot of precious time. Time is money... you figure it out.  

Having SONY adopt, as soon as possible, an RF flash controlling system in the camera would, for all practical purposes, eliminate this waste. Regardless of the rest of the industry, SONY could set the pace for a controller camera for still-photographers and rapidly depart with the older, problematic technology. Sure, the camera could still have the "legacy tech", but adding the RF capability, built-in, would assure a more reliable and robust evolution to the current limitations of IR. :cheer: 

PWs do not do what I want. The Pixel KINGs do not do what I want, but they are closer. Closer, yet, is the Phottix "Odin", but it is far more costly. If SONY put it in the camera... then, it would be THEIR system and lock down the continuing issues of change, that seem to plague every new release of camera. It would eliminate the need for half-assed third-party solutions. That, to me, seems very attractive. Ask yourself... what's not to like?


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## jake337 (Jan 14, 2013)

DonSchap said:


> jake337 said:
> 
> 
> > Quit bitchin and buy some pocket wizards like everyone else......
> ...




I know, I've seen your gear list!!!!


Just saying, we all want radio triggers built into our camera bodies and recievers built into our flashes.  For what ever stupid reason, no manufactures are employing the idea.

So what is so limiting about pocket wizards, Pixel Kings, Phottix RF triggers?  What would change by implementing that into the body and flash, besides convienence of course?


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## DonSchap (Jan 14, 2013)

jake337 said:


> DonSchap said:
> 
> 
> > jake337 said:
> ...



Simply put, TTL & flash ratio control... plus the fact that while PWs are okay with cables for Nikon and Canon, they are very hard to use on SONY systems... and the sheer fact that I would not need a second set of batteries to run it all. I must be charging nearly *16* additional batteries (at 4hrs per pair) to keep up with the flashes (they're *16* more in the flashes). That's a lot of wasted time, if you ask me. The SONY a99 has problems with synching @ 1/250 second with it's own flash units. That's a standard. C'mon... $3000 camera... well over that, when you add the flash.

What I am getting at is that with built-in RF control... almost every visual obstacle; infra-red pre-flash delay; and range issue basically disappears and you have even better results, past 1/250 sec synchronization. You can even flash through walls and control the results.

It really is the final apsect of flash photography that needs to be addressed by the manufacturers. All of them. I just use SONY, so that is where I am focused to get this done. Plus, the a99 needs some help.


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## jake337 (Jan 14, 2013)

I can't find the link but I know Nikon, at least, filed a patent for in body radio triggers.  I'm pretty sure we'll. See it someday but manufactures would have to add the ability to receive the signals in their flashes as well.  This would add costs to their whole line of flashes as well.  You could have a receiver like with PW's but then your just removing the transceivers from the loop.

I think putting receivers into the flashes at a reasonable cost is holding the movement back.


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## DonSchap (Jan 15, 2013)

So, I got to thinking: Where would be the most reasonable spot to locate the necessary 2 1/2-inch RF antenna stub. It would have to be in a location that would not interfere with the Vertical Grip (VG) and not be covered by your RF absorbing body. Well, we hold the camera in our right hand, so... how about here? (see _red_ dashed-outline)

_*R*eliable *F*lash Inside_














​


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## DonSchap (Jan 22, 2013)

Here's a look...






Refined enough?


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## cosmonaut (Jan 22, 2013)

I could say that about every camera with a wireless system I have ever owned. Why do you think Radio Poppers and stuff so popular?


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## DonSchap (Jan 22, 2013)

cosmonaut said:


> I could say that about every camera with a wireless system I have ever owned. Why do you think Radio Poppers and stuff so popular?



I am not arguing against the use of existing "Third-Party" RF triggers and such. They are all we have, at the moment. The problem is that SONY is pretty specific about how it controls its flash systems and the synchronization times are fantastically tight, with pre-flash notifications. If you miss by a millisecond and you have a bad flash image. Third-party cannot possibly keep up with the SONY changes and the a99 is a perfect example of SONY's secretive nature resulting in a mess with these 3rd-Party attachments.

If SONY (and the other manufacturers) were to put _RF trigger/ratio flash control_ of all future flash systems directly into their camera body and menu-system, the overall future design changes would be irrelevant. There would be no need to consult with third party and the delay in the third party response to the manufacturing cycle would be eliminated. Software/Firmware updates would be consistent (a blessing you have to truly appreciate).

This RF-upgrade is a move whose time is long past due. There really should not be a third-party solution to this. It belongs in the camera and should be controlled directed from the rear menu, to afford direct and proper communication and coordination between all flash devices. :cheer:


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## Derrel (Jan 22, 2013)

I would also like a bottle opener on the bottom plate, built in.A solid,simple, built-in, factory-implemented bottle opener would help all users with those extra-stubborn bottles of microbrewed beer that have those antiquated, NON-twist-top caps!!! SONY could put the opener in the left hand side of the bottom plate, and make it of steel with a reinforced Kevlar footing/surround/foundation...it'd be sweet...then a SONY could ALWAYS, reliably crack open basically any bottled beer!!!!


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## Kolia (Jan 22, 2013)

That would be sweet !


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## Derrel (Jan 22, 2013)

As to a built-in triggering system inside the camera body; a few years ago, the Pocket Wizard company offered a custom installed built-in internal Pocket Wizard for Nikon 1-series camera bodies. Users shipped their pro Nikon body or bodies to the PW folks, and they installed a Pocket Wizard inside the D1 or D1h or D1x, and shipped it back to users.


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## amolitor (Jan 22, 2013)

I just use the pocket wizards to pry the tops off. Not MINE of course, someone else's.


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## Benco (Jan 22, 2013)

Derrel said:


> I would also like a bottle opener on the bottom plate, built in.A solid,simple, built-in, factory-implemented bottle opener would help all users with those extra-stubborn bottles of microbrewed beer that have those antiquated, NON-twist-top caps!!! SONY could put the opener in the left hand side of the bottom plate, and make it of steel with a reinforced Kevlar footing/surround/foundation...it'd be sweet...then a SONY could ALWAYS, reliably crack open basically any bottled beer!!!!



No need, just take the lense off and you can pop open a crown top by levering it between the mount and the bottom of that SLT mirror thingy. Job's a good 'un,


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## jfrabat (Jan 24, 2013)

I do not know the answer, but do all RF flash triggers use the same "language" to trigger flashes?  I have to say, it would have been a pretty cool feature and another first if they would have; I gotta find out why the did not do it (probably has to do with standarization, but I really don't know).


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## DonSchap (Jan 28, 2013)

jfrabat said:


> I do not know the answer, but do all RF flash triggers use the same "language" to trigger flashes?  I have to say, it would have been a pretty cool feature and another first if they would have; I gotta find out why the did not do it (probably has to do with standarization, but I really don't know).



If you purchase an SLT-a99, right now, and already own a reasonably nice 'legacy' flash suite (ala any other Alpha/late-Minolta camera), you are going to experience annoying issues like you have not seen. When you discover these, you are probably going to ask the obvious: 

"Why, it's a SONY?"






You would think that users, having invested, quite literally, thousands of dollars in Minolta/SONY _flash photography hardware_ would get just a little respect for their investment and, with a $3000 camera (a99), they cannot not effectively use their older equipment, because of timing delays in the camera's _flash decision circuitry_ and the complication of having to use an ADAPTER to attach anything short of the brand new *HVL-F60AM* _Electronic Flash_ ($549.99) to the A99's hot-shoe. 

To be clear: Flash synchronization is critical.

Guys... $3000... to have to use adapters? To make your camera work (unreliably) with your current gear?



Okay, maybe it is not apparent, if you don't own one of these flashy, new units, but just wait until you do. I suspect that the "return box" and the "sales receipt" are going to start looking pretty good... and your old, far-more reliable a900 (or whatever) will, also.

SONY.. uh-uh. :thumbdown: Fix this, immediately, or no sale.


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## Kolia (Jan 28, 2013)

So Sony should have stayed with their old proprietary hot shoe ?

Or maybe have both ?

How about a removable legacy hot shoe ?


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## DonSchap (Jan 28, 2013)

Kolia said:


> So Sony should have stayed with their old proprietary hot shoe ?
> 
> Or maybe have both ?
> 
> How about a removable legacy hot shoe ?



The best "change" would be to add a new RF flash trigger/synchronization/ratio control to the camera body 






and leave the Minolta-legacy hot-shoe in place, for people to make use of their older equipment. Forget ISO compatibility and make the other manufacturers adopt RF. It's here, it's now... it is, undeniably, the way to go. :cheer::camera:


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