# Will lighting ever be intuitive?



## unpopular (Dec 8, 2011)

Whenever I pull out my lights, I feel like I am fumbling around so much. I get a lot of the exposure end of things, but I never seem to be able to predict how placement will affect the subject or exactly what modifier to use when and where. There is a LOT of trial and error, and I don't like working that way.

How long did it take before you felt confident in the studio?


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## tirediron (Dec 8, 2011)

I honestly couldn't put a time on it...  I've been using strobes of one sort or another for years now, and for the most part, I can approximate reasonably well what I want on the first shot, but I don't think I've ever got it right first shot.  When I got my last new set of strobes, it probably took six-eight uses before I was comfortable with them.


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## jake337 (Dec 8, 2011)

The lights may never become more intuitive, but you will!


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## Big Mike (Dec 8, 2011)

Knowledge is the key.

Have you read 'Light: Science & Magic'?

Maybe take a class or two.


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## MLeeK (Dec 8, 2011)

If you spend a day with your lights and really LOOK at them and where the light is going to fall and where shadows are going to happen you will learn a lot. But you have to go slow and really stop and think about every little thing you are doing.  Look at where the light is and isn't. Do you need more or less light over here or over there... Are you causing a blow out on one side and the other is dark or well exposed? Then think about what you would have to have to stop that from happening. It's a trial and error lesson, but you'll learn so much if you do it. You don't have to have a live model. A doll, teddy bear or anything that is dimensional like a face would be (or whatever you want to photograph regularly) is all you need. 
StudioLighting.net has some great basic information. Use that and play with it. 
Modeling lamps are an amazing thing for telling you where you are going to need something!!!


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## Derrel (Dec 8, 2011)

You'll get to a point where light placement and modifier choice is easier. It's like anything new--it takes time! Who wrote that book that says it takes 10,000 hours to become really "good" at almost any activity? Learning can take place in many ways, and from many different sources. As MLeeK mentioned, modeling lights help quite a bit. DIfferent types of light modifiers have different effects, different lighting "patterns" or "types". I honestly think the old, classical lighting exercises have much to recommend them. Take an EGG...one, single chicken egg, and photograph it on top of a table. See what can be done with ONE single light, just by way of distance to the subject, and placement of the light. It might seem crazy to people who have never done it...how could one possibly learn anything by taking pictures of an egg, using one light? I believe David Hobby and the Strobist blog did the same basic experiment with an apple...

I felt the same way when I got my first wide-angle lens...I learned to shoot with a normal 51mm lens (yes, 51mm), then a 45mm, then a 58mm, and then a 135mm lens...my first wide-angle was a real "stretch" for me.


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## c.cloudwalker (Dec 8, 2011)

What do you mean, will it ever be?  It already is.


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## bazooka (Dec 8, 2011)

I feel pretty comfortable with my lighting, but sometimes I'll run into a situation that just doesn't work as planned. Just today I was trying to set up for a fairly complicated shoot that didn't work out so I'm postponing it. 

I don't think I'll ever "master" it if there is such a thing as light mastery, but after a couple of months of averaging 5 to 10 unique environmental portraits a week, it has become much easier. I know what lights I want, what modifiers, what direction and intensity ratios (I guesstimate, I'm not a light-metering exacto kind of photographer), colors, etc.

What usually screws me up is I'll plan out a shot in mind my and it will just look great, but when I set up the shot, I'll realize either I'm limited by equipment, or I can't physically place the lights where I need them because of space restrictions. And I hate compromising when I have an awsome shot in my head.

Perfect example happened 3 weeks ago. I planned to use a bed sheet with a single flash behind it in a couple's backyard to do some couple portraits. I already had the setup planned. But I get there, and their backyard is MUCH tighter than I remembered, and it was windy so my "sail" kept blowing over. It didn't go as planned, but I compromised because I had no choice, and fortunately ended up with some nice shots.

Bottom line: Practice, practice, practice. Understand light. Practice. Experiment. Stop. Think. Shoot. Observe. THINK.

THINK.

I firmly believe observation is the greatest teacher of photography.


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## gsgary (Dec 8, 2011)

The best way i found is to look at the old masters and try and  work out where the light is coming from and then get your lights out and replicate it, but always start with one light before adding others that way you will know which light is not working


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## unpopular (Dec 8, 2011)

bazooka said:


> I feel pretty comfortable with my lighting



It was reviewing your flickr that inspired this thread!

Will read over replies and post comments later.


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## unpopular (Dec 9, 2011)

Thanks for the advice and ecouragement everyone. It seems like every time I try studio I just get frustrated. After several sweaty long hour, I usually get something passable, but it's never what I had in mind. And what's up with all the sweat? Even if I turn off the modeling lights I feel like a stuck pig!

Anyway. Thank again.



Big Mike said:


> Have you read 'Light: Science & Magic'?




I've looked at it, and breezed through it, but I have not bought it yet. They have it our local library, and have even recommended it since it's the first book on lighting that I've seen which actually explains the techniques rather than encourages the student to just emulate. I agree it's a great book.



MLeeK said:


> If you spend a day with your lights and really LOOK at them and where the light is going to fall and where shadows are going to happen you will learn a lot.





Derrel said:


> Take an EGG...one, single chicken egg, and photograph it on top of a table. See what can be done with ONE single light, just by way of distance to the subject, and placement of the light.




I'll have to try this some time. I think you are right, just a few very long sessions with one light and one subject is key. Unfortunately, my toddler loves to mess everything up. 




> I felt the same way when I got my first wide-angle lens...I learned to shoot with a normal 51mm lens (yes, 51mm), then a 45mm, then a 58mm, and then a 135mm lens...my first wide-angle was a real "stretch" for me.



I was the same way! I only used normal lenses for a long time, then I got a 28mm lens which I was OK with - then I got a 135mm lens. I still have no idea how to use a telephoto, and this sensor crop stuff is a real challenge for me.



bazooka said:


> I feel pretty comfortable with my lighting, but sometimes I'll run into a situation that just doesn't work as planned. Just today I was trying to set up for a fairly complicated shoot that didn't work out so I'm postponing it.



As I said, your flickr is what inspired this thread. You are very proficient at lighting, and your results seem so natural to you - it is very evident that you have a remarkable understanding of light.

How do you think of light? I mean, do you think of it like a fluid, or like "paint"? Do you consider the give/take like an algebra problem that needs balancing? Can you tell me a little about your approach?


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## iNNo (Dec 10, 2011)

I love studio lights on and off location. You should pay a visit to strobist.com if you're still infant to lighting scenes and subjects. Though I have never commited to reading or exercise their techniques, I've heard great things from people making them quite reliable with sources and information. And like everyone said, take your time and enjoy.


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## bazooka (Dec 10, 2011)

unpopular said:


> bazooka said:
> 
> 
> > I feel pretty comfortable with my lighting, but sometimes I'll run into a situation that just doesn't work as planned. Just today I was trying to set up for a fairly complicated shoot that didn't work out so I'm postponing it.
> ...



Wow, that's very flattering, thank you.

First off, I have to give most credit to David Hobby at strobist.com for putting together an excellent tutorial, lighting 101. So I'm pretty sure no matter what I type, he has already typed and it is probably better and more understandable. If you have not gone through the Lighting 101 course, do so immediately. It doesn't take long at all, maybe 5 or 10 hours if you actually do the exercises.

David starts off by coming to terms with "flash" light and why it seems complex. It's so fast, it's hard for us to get a grip on it. However, a trick he uses is to simply pretend that the flash is always on. Pretend it's a flashlight basically. When you start thinking like this, you will see that setting up the position, direction, modifiers, power ratios, and gels is MUCH more intuitive.

Another trick is to understand where the shadows are going to be. This is easy. Simple hold the flash up to your eye. Everything you can see, the light will hit. Everything you cannot see, the light will not hit.

How do I think of light? Hmmmm.... first off, as mentioned before, I do not get into the math of it. I had enough math in college to make my brain bleed, so it's not that I'm incapable. I just love the paradox that even though light is predictable, it still does things that we sometimes don't expect. That's exciting to me. I don't do guide numbers or metering even though I have the formula to determine proper flash power taped to each of my LP160's just in case. I don't like making it into a science. I like keeping it an art.

Part of it is not thinking about the light so much as I'm thinking about the subject. How do I want the subject to look? Serious? Beautiful? Mysterious? Edgy? Suppose I want someone to look like they mean business. I literally create a vision in my head of the MOST serious image that I can think of of that person. Once I do that, I look at that image in my head and I figure out how my lights are setup.  I know that sounds crazy but really, light is light, no matter where it comes from.  At this point I also determine focal length, background, and composition all from the vision that I have created.

Here is a shot that I pre-conceived... It didn't work exactly as I had planned but that's why I love flash photography. It is both a challenge and often unpredictable (at least as far as our minds can forsee).




Don't mess with Ricky by Tim Herschbach, on Flickr

If I imagine an awsome shot complete with awsome light, I simply have to deduce that light. This is the part that comes with experience, but seriously, with a little practice, it becomes quite easy to look at anyone's photo (unless it has been heavily processed or modified in some way) and get VERY close to the fundamental setup they used without them saying. Obviously you can't determine the model of the light they're using or maybe you can tell if that fill light is from a reflector or a bounced flash, but it usually doesn't matter. It's the QUALITY and RELATIVE STRENGTH and COLOR and DIRECTION of the light that is important in the end product. Not what is producing the light.

Now, I do not, and currently cannot pre-conceive every lit shot I do. Sometimes I have to setup a shot that someone else wants and do it quickly. This quick & dirty method is fun too because you only have a vague idea of how the image will finally turn out when you click the shutter. But it's also stressful when the setup you have just isn't working. I've found the best solution for me is to scrap what I'm trying to do immediately and try a completely different setup (different light positions, different ratios, different background, etc...)

Here is one that was not at all preconceived but was setup and shot in about 10 minutes. I wanted to take her portrait but had no idea what I wanted to do. She suggested in front of the Texas flag which was on flag pole in the corner. I stretched out the flag for a backdrop, put an "up" light on it, but an umbrella on her, and reflector on the left, and a hair light in back. It's a setup that's basic, works on just about anything, and is very effective. (Composition is a little wonky, but I can live with that.)




Lauren Freeman, Texas Proud by Tim Herschbach, on Flickr

Finally, I want to stress my work flow. It is not nearly as easy or intuitive as the photos I have on my photostream might suggest. It's time consuming and I take a LOT of test shots, adjusting my power levels and what have you many times. For the shot immediately above, I probably took 5-15 test shots to adjust lights. I have taken more for some setups. Occasionally the first test shot will need no adjustment, but that's quite rare. I simply could not work like I do if I was shooting film because A.) I could burn half a roll just on test shots, and B.) Of course I couldn't take "test" shots because I wouldn't be able to see them anyway. I am in AWE of guys that did this kind of stuff with film. I feel like I'm just playing around when I think about what they had to go through.

I want to be as helpful to you (and anyone else) as possible. If you ever want my input on something, feel free to send me a PM or "Like" a post to draw my attention back to it. I would be more than happy to work with you one-on-one if you'd like. I love this hobby and I love helping others become more proficient where I can.


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## raphaelaaron (Dec 10, 2011)

Lighting can become intuitive, but it will take a long time to come to that point. Like what was mentioned, you have to keep practicing, and figure out what will do what. After that, you'll begin to come up with patterns of what looks flattering and what doesn't. It's definitely a learning process, and everyone has to go through it.


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## c.cloudwalker (Dec 11, 2011)

raphaelaaron said:


> Lighting can become intuitive



No it won't. Yes it will.

The problem is that it is but our educational system teaches to not trust our intuitions.

Now, not everyone should trust their intuitions, some people are weird. I loved my wife, in part, because she was a very good balance to my insanity. Before you trust your intuitions, you need to have a very good idea who you are.

But, overall, gut feelings are good.


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