# How do you deal with Non-Cooperative clients?



## Eveamlizya (Aug 15, 2012)

Ok, today I got thoroughly P.O.ed!  Granted, I offered to do this for my cousin, taking her senior pictures, as both a gift for her and practice for me and she was soooo excited about it because the ones the school took were horrible.  BUT I asked her to meet me at a certain location this morning at a certain time...I get there and she isn't there so I call her...SHE"S STILL IN FRIGGIN BED!  So, she doesn't get there for another hour and fifteen minutes by which time the sun is already too bright (in that hour the beautiful overcast was completely gone) so she's squinting in half the pictures I took there...then all the other locations that we had to get to have the wrong shadows and yeah, I got a few good do-able pictures to work with but I just know she's going to complain.  Not to mention, the whole day she was so somber (I'm guessing it was because she wanted to sleep in) and would hardly smile or sit up straight or do what I was asking her to pose like.  I would've just told her to do it another day, but school starts next week and I have a 5 month old baby plus college and she has school plus work so I didn't want to just throw away the only day we both have off.  How do you deal with someone like that?


----------



## Eveamlizya (Aug 15, 2012)

Oh and since she didn't get up earlier, she just threw something on, her hair wasn't really pretty and she had hardly no makeup on...photoshop here I come...


----------



## unpopular (Aug 15, 2012)

uhm.

deal with the cards your dealt, learn how to use undesirable situations, buy a reflector?

sounds to me that your cousin is a self centered, lazy teenager (nothing new), but at the same time you sound like a photographer who can't deal with the sun.

btw - weren't you the one who so badly wanted your family to use your services?


----------



## pic_chick (Aug 15, 2012)

Eveamlizya said:


> Oh and since she didn't get up earlier, she just threw something on, her hair wasn't really pretty and she had hardly no makeup on...photoshop here I come...



Photoshop He11 I would give what she gave you. If she dislikes them then had her a tripod and say next time be on time and appreciate people when they try to help you.


----------



## Sw1tchFX (Aug 15, 2012)

just kick them in the crotch.


----------



## o hey tyler (Aug 15, 2012)

Eveamlizya said:


> How do you deal with someone like that?



A non-paying client that directly disrespected the time-slot you set for them, and was generally in a bad mood all day? I would have gone home. I'm not getting paid to deal with her BS. If she complains, tell her to shove it. You waited for her unmotivated ass to get out of bed and arrive on location, and she was in a crabby mood due to her desire to sleep. 

If it were a paying client/non family member, well, I would not suggest that course of action. However, I would have respectfully told them over the phone that you have a prior engagement and cannot bump the session to an hour later. Which would in turn force them to reschedule if they wished to proceed with a photo session. If not, I would keep the retainer for the session and move on.  

Furthermore, it sounds like you didn't put her in the shade, hence the squinting. Tell your client to groom themselves, and dress appropriately if they want photos worth looking at. Photography isn't a one way street, clients sometimes (most times, really) need to be instructed on what to wear. 

Why don't you post some lightly edited images for C&C and you will most likely receive pointers or tips on how to improve the photos or scenario.


----------



## o hey tyler (Aug 15, 2012)

Sw1tchFX said:


> just kick them in the crotch.



This also works.


----------



## Sw1tchFX (Aug 15, 2012)

OK, I just actually read it....



....why the f*** didnt' you just reschedule? And the squinting/lighting...That's your fault.


----------



## Bitter Jeweler (Aug 15, 2012)

Take charge!


----------



## rexbobcat (Aug 15, 2012)

Bitter Jeweler said:
			
		

> Take charge!



A cattle prod gives much incentive to follow orders indeed.


----------



## Eveamlizya (Aug 15, 2012)

She decided the locations so the lighting isn't really my fault.  I told her ahead of time that's why I wanted the earlier time was because the direction she would have to be facing would be very difficult closer to noon.  I told her a couple times that she needed to wear something comfortable, not too busy pattern-wise, and still dressy (she showed up in flip flops, capri pants, and a t-shirt too small for her) luckily she wears a similar size shoe to me so i made her put on my Vans that half way looked decent.  I took the guitar out of her car and posed her in ways that were more "relaxed" that what I originally wanted.  I'm just going to edit the hell out of them and might get a couple up tomorrow to get C&C...maybe they won't be so bad...I'm probably just a little pissed still.  
Straight out of camera, I took 147 and got 15 that I'm gonna work with that are good poses where she actually smiled...a little.  (I may end up tossing a couple based on exposure, but they were spots that I didn't get anything else from so I'm gonna try and work with it regardless.)
Sorry I posted stupid angry rant.  (NOTE to self...next time I work with her...call her 2 hours early...)


----------



## tirediron (Aug 15, 2012)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> Take charge!


This! ^^^


----------



## tirediron (Aug 15, 2012)

Eveamlizya said:


> She decided the locations so the lighting isn't really my fault.


Sorry, but that's a cop-out.  You have to be able to work under the circumstances as they're presented.  Granted, it wasn't what you expected, but dealing with the unexpected is a HUGE part of being a professional.



Eveamlizya said:


> I told her ahead of time that's why I wanted the earlier time was because the direction she would have to be facing would be very difficult closer to noon. I told her a couple times that she needed to wear something comfortable, not too busy pattern-wise, and still dressy (she showed up in flip flops, capri pants, and a t-shirt too small for her) luckily she wears a similar size shoe to me so i made her put on my Vans that half way looked decent. I took the guitar out of her car and posed her in ways that were more "relaxed" that what I originally wanted. I'm just going to edit the hell out of them and might get a couple up tomorrow to get C&C...maybe they won't be so bad...I'm probably just a little pissed still.
> Straight out of camera, I took 147 and got 15 that I'm gonna work with that are good poses where she actually smiled...a little. (I may end up tossing a couple based on exposure, but they were spots that I didn't get anything else from so I'm gonna try and work with it regardless.)
> Sorry I posted stupid angry rant. (NOTE to self...next time I work with her...call her 2 hours early...)


Believe it or not, I think you were lucky to have this experience.  Since it wasn't a paying client, there's a limited amount of pain that she can inflict on you, but you gained the valuable experience of dealing with a difficult client.  There are lots of people like her in the world, and worse too!


----------



## o hey tyler (Aug 15, 2012)

Eveamlizya said:


> She decided the locations so the lighting isn't really my fault.


 
Yes it is. You can tell your client why a certain area works better than another. You run the show. Sure the client can ask for a certain setting, and you should do everything in your power to take photos in that setting. However, if you can get her in the shade, get her in the shade. 



> I told her ahead of time that's why I wanted the earlier time was because the direction she would have to be facing would be very difficult closer to noon.  I told her a couple times that she needed to wear something comfortable, not too busy pattern-wise, and still dressy (she showed up in flip flops, capri pants, and a t-shirt too small for her) luckily she wears a similar size shoe to me so i made her put on my Vans that half way looked decent.


 
That's when you tell her (as a non-paying client/family member) that she is dressed inappropriately for the photoshoot, and needs to change/reschedule.  



> I took the guitar out of her car and posed her in ways that were more "relaxed" that what I originally wanted.  I'm just going to edit the hell out of them and might get a couple up tomorrow to get C&C...maybe they won't be so bad...I'm probably just a little pissed still.



I don't suggest you "edit the hell out of them." When people say that, it usually ends badly. 



> Straight out of camera, I took 147 and got 15 that I'm gonna work with that are good poses where she actually smiled...a little.  (I may end up tossing a couple based on exposure, but they were spots that I didn't get anything else from so I'm gonna try and work with it regardless.)
> Sorry I posted stupid angry rant.  (NOTE to self...next time I work with her...call her 2 hours early...)



I hope you shot the photos in RAW format.


----------



## Eveamlizya (Aug 15, 2012)

tirediron said:


> Believe it or not, I think you were lucky to have this experience.  Since it wasn't a paying client, there's a limited amount of pain that she can inflict on you, but you gained the valuable experience of dealing with a difficult client.  There are lots of people like her in the world, and worse too!



Yeah, you're right.  Didn't look at it that way.  Thank ya'll for all the feedback.  I'll certainly know how to deal with the situation better next time.

Also, by "edit the hell out of them" I don't actually mean over do it...just to play around with different thing until I find the right touch that will make it look alright.  This is just a quick edit of my favorite shot that I got.  I know, I know, selective color, but I think it's ok for this shot since it's her school color and such.  I'd appreciate any criticism since I know I'm not a pro by any means and ya'll are so I greatly respect your help.


----------



## 2WheelPhoto (Aug 15, 2012)

deal with them like this:


----------



## o hey tyler (Aug 15, 2012)

Eveamlizya said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> > Believe it or not, I think you were lucky to have this experience.  Since it wasn't a paying client, there's a limited amount of pain that she can inflict on you, but you gained the valuable experience of dealing with a difficult client.  There are lots of people like her in the world, and worse too!
> ...



You said these were senior photos, right? I wouldn't present this image to her specifically because she's not looking at the camera. Not what I'd consider a "Senior photo." Maybe a Facebook profile photo, not a photo that would go to print in a yearbook. 

Also, the senior photos will probably be in B&W (at least most I've seen are). And if they aren't, it would be nice to get more utilization of color IMO.


----------



## Eveamlizya (Aug 15, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


> Eveamlizya said:
> 
> 
> > tirediron said:
> ...


Forgot to mention that these aren't going to be used in the yearbook so they're really just for her and family.  They only use the ones the school takes for yearbook ones because they'll all be the same pose and background etc...


----------



## o hey tyler (Aug 15, 2012)

Eveamlizya said:
			
		

> Forgot to mention that these aren't going to be used in the yearbook so they're really just for her and family.  They only use the ones the school takes for yearbook ones because they'll all be the same pose and background etc...



Interesting, that is so unlike any school I've ever heard of. Not that I don't believe you. It is just very uncommon IMO.

Typically a company like Lifetouch will be contracted to shoot underclass photography (up to 11th grade) and for senior photos they are privately contracted by independent photographers or in some instances Lifetouch provides personalized senior portrait services. 

Regardless of whether or not they'd be used in a yearbook, this image still doesn't work for me due to her orientation.


----------



## Eveamlizya (Aug 15, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


> Eveamlizya said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah I know, I wished they did let us just do our own pictures for yearbooks around here but even mine in 2007 were all ones from the school...still Lifetouch, too.  They all have to be the black background with the tux for guys and the black off-the-shoulder shawl thing for girls and only in the back (where there's notes from family) do they let you pick your own pictures.  Super quick edit of face-on.


----------



## pgriz (Aug 16, 2012)

Dealing with customers (whether paying or not), I use the following protocol:
1) make appointment, and give them the time, date, location on a piece of paper with your name, contract info, etc. on it.
Jot down any specific requests/needs.
2) Day before the appointment, call and confirm.  Review the specific requests/needs, referring to the written list you already gave them.  Tell them you're following up 1 hour prior to the appointment the next day.
3) One hour prior to appointment, call and confirm:  time, location, the specific requests/needs.

Why bother?  because your time is valuable, and you are the one who is managing this event.

Since I've adopted this approach, there is almost never a missed appointment.  Before this, way too many.  Problem was, people are too busy, too distracted, (sometimes) too lazy, etc.


----------



## Tee (Aug 16, 2012)

o hey tyler said:
			
		

> Interesting, that is so unlike any school I've ever heard of. Not that I don't believe you. It is just very uncommon IMO.



What the OP is describing was/is very common in the area I grew up.  A contracted business for the yearbook photo (women in one standard dress/ shaw and the men in same jacket and tie) with the same head tilt/ smile and then the family hires a photographer of their choosing for the "lifestyle" series for friends and family.  When I was a senior we always exchanged the lifestyle pics and not the canned yearbook photo.  

To the OP: could it be her tardiness was the result of you being family?  This happens a lot. They think to themselves it's no big deal. If this was a paid gig and she wasn't family, I bet her mom would've gotten her up.  With regards to the selective coloring, I urge you to try another form of processing style.  You can even get the Instagram style tutorials on YouTube now days. . Selective color ranks up there with using a wrinkled sheet for the background of boudoir photography.


----------



## sarahashleyphotos (Aug 16, 2012)

About the yearbook thing. I think if a senior had a pro take a photo of them in their studio it would still be able to be used. I went to a privet high school and we used lifetouch and were not told we could have another photographer take out photo. Last year I had a student from the school contact me about taking photos in my studio because she did not like the one lifetouch had taken. My photo was used as her yearbook photo and in the back where moms purchase space to say congratulations to their kids (businesses also purchase ad space). Anyway that may have been a special thing because I am a former student (class of 2007 as well) and I also photograph their prom every year. It never hurts to ask.

Also just as a cheeper tip for achieving the yearbook photo: You can buy the black wrap around for the girls "dress" from prop stores but we used the senior's mom's velvet black skirt and it worked pretty well. We just clipped it in the back with the clamps that we use to hold backdrops.


----------



## andywag (Aug 16, 2012)

*"So, she doesn't get there for another hour and fifteen minutes"*

And you were still there ???? more fool you.

ANY and I do mean ANY client. friend. relative who cannot turn up on time or be bothered to call and tell me they are going to be late will not find me there if they got there over an hour late.


How do you deal with this little spoilt brat. Give them the shots you have and  tell them you are not interested in working with them again.


----------



## Designer (Aug 16, 2012)

A non-paying family member?  I'm afraid I would have just gone home.  You have things to do, and your time is valuable.  After the fact, I'm not sure what I would do now, but I would have simply let her engage the services another photographer.


----------



## orljustin (Aug 16, 2012)

That's not a client and you're not a pro photographer.  It's just a situation of someone with a camera taking pictures of an annoyed eelative.  Life goes on.


----------



## Tuffythepug (Aug 16, 2012)

If the scenario were to be reversed:   i.e. ,  you showed up an hour and a half late and unprepared for the shoot what do you think would have been done or said by your "client" ?
You have to have it one way or the other.  either this is a serious photo-shoot / sitting with you controlling all aspects of it or it's just a loosey-goosey family picture outing.  You were thinking the former while your "client" was thinking the latter.  Grt it straight before you attempt another one of these shoots.

Also, in business and in personal life I do not wait more than 15 minutes for anyone unless I have been contacted and given a damn good excuse for the tardiness.   People who routinely show up late are just being rude and feel like their time is more important than yours.


----------



## MLeeK (Aug 16, 2012)

Your first mistake was waiting an hour and 15 minutes for her. You knew the light would be gone in that time frame. When you woke her up you should have said Done Deal. Light is gone, no can do. Next time it'll be a 150 deposit to ensure you actually get your ass out of bed. Have a nice day!


----------



## MLeeK (Aug 16, 2012)

sarahashleyphotos said:


> About the yearbook thing. I think if a senior had a pro take a photo of them in their studio it would still be able to be used. I went to a privet high school and we used lifetouch and were not told we could have another photographer take out photo. Last year I had a student from the school contact me about taking photos in my studio because she did not like the one lifetouch had taken. My photo was used as her yearbook photo and in the back where moms purchase space to say congratulations to their kids (businesses also purchase ad space). Anyway that may have been a special thing because I am a former student (class of 2007 as well) and I also photograph their prom every year. It never hurts to ask.
> 
> Also just as a cheeper tip for achieving the yearbook photo: You can buy the black wrap around for the girls "dress" from prop stores but we used the senior's mom's velvet black skirt and it worked pretty well. We just clipped it in the back with the clamps that we use to hold backdrops.



There are yearbooks that allow an image from any outside photographer. They have everything from no requirements to EXTREME requirements that give precise measurements as to where the head has to be placed within the frame. Believe me... it's no walk in th epark for a photographer to work with most of them. It's also no walk in the park to be the one putting together the yearbook when you are getting images in every imaginable format under the sun, hence why they finally resort to ONE photographer who does exactly the same thing with the images. My home school isn't shot by lifetouch, but a much smaller local company who does the same thing. Their work is even worse than lifetouch in most cases. However, our yearbooks are beautifully timeless. They've done THAT shot for thousands of seniors every year for the past 20 or more and they're good at it. 

Can you blame the schools for making that choice? Not when you think of the average Joe who'd come in with photo of him in the back of his beat up chevy pick up complete with a blown out background and raccoon eyes because he isn't going to shell out a few hundred bucks just for a portrait sitting.


----------



## sarahashleyphotos (Aug 16, 2012)

MLeeK said:


> sarahashleyphotos said:
> 
> 
> > About the yearbook thing. I think if a senior had a pro take a photo of them in their studio it would still be able to be used. I went to a privet high school and we used lifetouch and were not told we could have another photographer take out photo. Last year I had a student from the school contact me about taking photos in my studio because she did not like the one lifetouch had taken. My photo was used as her yearbook photo and in the back where moms purchase space to say congratulations to their kids (businesses also purchase ad space). Anyway that may have been a special thing because I am a former student (class of 2007 as well) and I also photograph their prom every year. It never hurts to ask.
> ...



I have no problem with lifetouch my photo by them was ok and at the time I was happy with it. I was just sharing my experience with a client of mine. I know the typical senior pose which we did. " It's also no walk in the park to be the one putting together the yearbook when you are getting images in every imaginable format under the sun" The school should inform the students once they say that they had another photographer photograph their senior portrait that it should be in a cretin format. I knew the correct format for the images since I work with the school doing candids for their yearbook as well as the prom photos every year. The photographer should also make it a point to ask the school. We just used a more modern backdrop and the school loved it. All i'm saying is it does not hurt to ask. If your client wants it then talk to the school about it.

I also did say "I think if a senior had a *pro* take a photo of them in their studio it would still be able to be used." I know schools would reject a image that was not taken in a studio and they should. But I also know after that experience that they do not have to use lifetouch or a company like it (which the parents don't even have to pay for). The senior I talked about did have to pay for my services.


----------



## ghache (Aug 16, 2012)

LOL! are the point where she was still in bed, I would have tell her to keep her lazy ass in bed and get pictures taken elsewhere. 

btw it was not a client. it was your lazy cousin.


----------



## ceejtank (Aug 16, 2012)

I feel that most people could benefit from a swift punch to the throat/face.  It sucks when it happens.. but a lot of people afterwards will reflect on it and be like "yeahhh, I was kind of being a d*ck.."


----------



## cgipson1 (Aug 16, 2012)

*How do you deal with Non-Cooperative clients?*

Easy.. I swat 'em.. or spray 'em with bug spray! Sometimes I just stomp them, if they really piss me off!


(This is one reason I prefer not to work with people anymore.. even non-clients are often PITA's!) I do love Macro, though!  And family can be the worst!


----------



## jaicatalano (Aug 16, 2012)

It's your cousin. Tell her you will treat her to dinner the day after tomorrow.


----------



## The_Traveler (Aug 16, 2012)

and the picture was OOF


----------

