# No Time To Learn Gotta Wingit Here Please Advise....



## YoBenny (Sep 2, 2012)

The excuse I used to finally buy a camera is my better half's daughter is getting married and the groom's Mom insists on using her "friends" for all the necessary parts such as flowers, photographs etc. 
My better half stated the florists' taste in flowers was akin to asking one of the Clampets to decorate the Country Club....

Anyway I went ahead and bought a three point 900 light system and a speedlight sb-400 flash to at least try and get some decent photographs of the gal in her dress for her Bridal Shower this week.
Once I set the lights up I realized I have no idea what to do with them, how far from subject how high or low etc etc.

I bought a light meter and no idea how to use it....

Can you guys help me here? She is coming this Thursday or we are taking pictures then, I have all these tools and feel like a monkey @ toys are us.....

She has a couch and a piece of furniture that she wants her to pose with and we are going to arrange some plants in the back yard to make it look New Orleanzy so I guess I have those three to try and figure out how to get light right in. 

It's a Nikon 3200 with 18-55 1;35-5.6G and a sigma 70-300mm 1;4-5.6

Thanks for any help!


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## Sw1tchFX (Sep 2, 2012)

Jesus Christ dude..

Just keep it simple and bounce your SB 400 off the ceiling.


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## amolitor (Sep 2, 2012)

I would search the web for lighting tutorials ("basic portrait lighting setup" seems to pull up some links) and read 'em.

Practice with yourself and the self-timer.


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## cgipson1 (Sep 2, 2012)

If you bought constant lights, you wasted your money! Throw 'em away (or return them if you can).. and use flash. The trouble with the SB-400 is that is is very weak, not much better than the pop-up flash...  and won't work with CLS remote for OC flash. you would be better off with cheap 3rd party flashes like the Yongnuo 560's or Vivitar 283's. Even better the the Flashpoint 320s from Adorama. 

Nothing like waiting until the very last minute.....


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## YoBenny (Sep 2, 2012)

OK well thats what I get for buying crap and not knowing much about it but she (the boss) threw this on me like I can learn this in 4 days or something so I tried to compensate with gear. (I know that doesnt work, it doesnt work in other stuff either, you cant play a $4,000 guitar if you can't play a $100 one)

This kit had a tripod in it that is prettly lame I want a good one any advice on that appreciated.

I thought that the SB 400 was way weak to get some light into this dark old house when I tried it thats why I bought the flourescents. I realize you can compensate for low light but I was told you have got to have some light to work with and for this it just didn't seem that you could pull that much out of that little flash. (Im thinking the 400 is useless not the flourescents)


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## pixmedic (Sep 2, 2012)

as far as lighting goes, for the money, you might have been better off buying a better hotshoe flash and a softbox or other diffuser and maybe a bounce card.  Get a flash with a swivel head. we use sb-700's and they are great. you could even get away with a sb-600 or an off brand equivalent.


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## Ernicus (Sep 2, 2012)

what charlie said x10

ya need at least a sb600 for flash

you might be a bit dissapointed with the 3200 and that lens as far as quality goes.  if you have no budget issue pickup a 50mm 1.4 or at least a 50mm 1.8 and use the setup you have and you'll be sorta happy with it.

the kit lens is a great lens, and I advocate it often, I will admit though, it is not great for portraiture....I had it and loved it and did well with it, but not on people.


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## unpopular (Sep 2, 2012)

You may want to tell your ... uhm? Sister in law? No... uhh.... anyway ... that you are uncomfortable doing this, and that you'll try, but really strongly advise hiring a professional.

hell man, point her in the direction of some cheap fauxtographer, offer to split the cost and when **** hits the fan let him or her take the fall.


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## cgipson1 (Sep 2, 2012)

YoBenny said:


> OK well thats what I get for buying crap and not knowing much about it but she (the boss) threw this on me like I can learn this in 4 days or something so I tried to compensate with gear. (I know that doesnt work, it doesnt work in other stuff either, you cant play a $4,000 guitar if you can't play a $100 one)
> 
> This kit had a tripod in it that is prettly lame I want a good one any advice on that appreciated.
> 
> I thought that the SB 400 was way weak to get some light into this dark old house when I tried it thats why I bought the flourescents. I realize you can compensate for low light but I was told you have got to have some light to work with and for this it just didn't seem that you could pull that much out of that little flash. (Im thinking the 400 is useless not the flourescents)



Those fluorescents???  you have three lights at 300 Watts each, right?  900 watts total? That is 900 Watts per SECOND. So let's say you are shooting at 1/100 of a second... how much light do you get?


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## Derrel (Sep 2, 2012)

unpopular said:


> You may want to tell your ... uhm? Sister in law? No... uhh.... anyway ... that you are uncomfortable doing this, and that you'll try, but really strongly advise hiring a professional.
> 
> hell man, point her in the direction of some cheap fauxtographer, offer to split the cost and when **** hits the fan let him or her take the fall.



Yes, DIZ-ACTLY the right course of action. *DIZ-ACTLY!!!*


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## SCraig (Sep 2, 2012)

Are you really going to try and stuff a several years experience in a 4 days???  That was a REALLY foolish move.  You'd be a lot better off returning all the equipment and hiring a photographer.

That camera doesn't have a commander mode, the lights wouldn't understand it if it did, and they aren't powerful enough to do anything.  Your best bet is to take all that lighting stuff back and get an SB-700 and a bounce card a lot larger than the one in the flash.  Something like a Dembs.  Put EVERYTHING in automatic; camera and flash, and hope for the best.

Either that or take it ALL back, get a D7000, two SB-700's, two light stands, and two umbrellas.  Put a flash on a stand shooting into an umbrella on each side, but the camera and flashes in Commander mode, and hope for the best.


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## Tee (Sep 2, 2012)

I'm not kidding...you have better luck using Instagram on your cell phone.  What is it with people who let family hornswaggle them into into these types of situations?  I think it's because they secretly want to do it.  Grow a pair.  Say no.


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## unpopular (Sep 2, 2012)

Benny, really - I think that you should just hire a professional if you can at all afford it, think of it as a wedding gift for your step daughter. This is just a disaster waiting to happen that very well could have lasting negative effects.


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## gsgary (Sep 2, 2012)

Looks like the **** is going to hit the fan in 4 days better start praying


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## YoBenny (Sep 2, 2012)

The grooms mom did hire a professional, and the "florist" is a so called professional too, but when we looked at her floral arrangements and what they cost, we looked at each other and thunk heck WE could do better than THAT....

So the boss is thinking the photographer (also a friend of the groom's mom) will be no better, so she wants backup. (And also a photographer of her own to pull around by the nose)
So I don't have all that responsibility, and I guess I started learning and making mistakes when I started pushing buttons at Amazon. Welp the 900~1/100 makes perfect sense, I see that a real flash costs almost as much as the camera, well who woulda thunk it....
I have straddled a bottomless pit, I can see right now this is never ending, constantly upgrading, I might as well just try it with what I have and start learning from there.
If she doesn't like the Bridal Shower pics then SHE can buy me a decent flash hehehehehe.

I am just going to turn them on and do some shots on the couch and see if I can figure out how to make it work......


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## gsgary (Sep 2, 2012)

Your best bet is to just stick your camera on program and hope


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## The_Traveler (Sep 2, 2012)

Did she rent a piano and arbitrarily enlist someone to learn to play?


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## unpopular (Sep 2, 2012)

YoBenny said:


> So the boss is thinking the photographer (also a friend of the groom's mom) will be no better, so she wants backup. (And also a photographer of her own to pull around by the nose)



OH phew! Man, dood. I thought you were pretty much fookt!

Ok. The last thing you're going to want to do is piss off the guy who knows what he or she is actually doing, leave the lights at home, pack up your baby flash, take some snaps and stay out of the way of the professional. For one thing, you don't want to distract him or her from doing their job.

From what I'm hearing your job is to placate a nervous and possibly controlling inlaw. I'm pretty sure that is what every father-of-the-bride's job is. Just let her think you're on top of things and when it's all over just say "man, that pro was good!"

Just relax, have some beers. If there is already a designated professional, then you really do not need to sweat it. Think of it as a good opportunity to practice. The grooms mom doesn't need to know that you don't really know what you're doing.

Oh, and I concur. Return the lights.


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## table1349 (Sep 2, 2012)




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## YoBenny (Sep 2, 2012)

I'm not missing I'm right here idiot as I be with the light boxes but hell on wheels in other things........


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## YoBenny (Sep 2, 2012)

And I appreciate the advice although it wasn't what I wanted to hear (of course). I'm going to keep these lights because some other women are going to be here and God knows women want things to LOOK like it's something special even if it aint so they can ooooo and aaaaaaahhhhhh at the lights and then they will think the pics are great hehehehe.

Yall takin all the fun outta this!

OK I'm a novice, I appreciate the advice, if any of yall ever decide you are man enough to brave actually trying to cook something lemme know I can show you about boiling eggs and don't go buy Ostrich eggs to start out!


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## cgipson1 (Sep 2, 2012)

YoBenny said:


> And I appreciate the advice although it wasn't what I wanted to hear (of course). I'm going to keep these lights because some other women are going to be here and God knows women want things to LOOK like it's something special even if it aint so they can ooooo and aaaaaaahhhhhh at the lights and then they will think the pics are great hehehehe.
> 
> Yall takin all the fun outta this!
> 
> OK I'm a novice, I appreciate the advice, if any of yall ever decide you are man enough to brave actually trying to cook something lemme know I can show you about boiling eggs and don't go buy Ostrich eggs to start out!



I love to cook! I once had a 5 star chef tell my my Bechamel sauce was better than his!


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## YoBenny (Sep 2, 2012)

I love to cook too started before you could surf the web for 40,000 variations of Mac & Cheese and have a star show you how to mix it.......

I did win a recipe contest and got to cook on Emeril Live in NYC once but other than that and a handful of chili and gumbo trophies I pretty much cook hard core Cajun food or New Orleans Creole or some decent Italian ocassionally Tex_Mex and I aint never HEARD of no baycamel - whut? - bechamel? WTH? don't you mean butter oil and hot cream? You caint go around sayin Bechamel dude you sound like an Amateur!!! 

One thing I am DEFINITELY going to enjoy doing with this camera is doing cooking pictorials that I have been doing with a point and shoot for some time. 

You can see the food, but not like what this thing will do for sure.


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## cgipson1 (Sep 2, 2012)

Looks good! Loves me some Cajun, and I grew up on TexMex! Make pretty decent red chili gravy!    I usually only make the Bechamel sauce for my Moussaka!


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## tirediron (Sep 2, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> Looks good! Loves me some Cajun, and I grew up on TexMex! Make pretty decent red chili gravy!    I usually only make the Bechamel sauce for my Moussaka!


Blah, blah, blah...  say again everything after "Peel back plastic film and microwave on high for three minutes"!!!


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## cgipson1 (Sep 2, 2012)

tirediron said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> > Looks good! Loves me some Cajun, and I grew up on TexMex! Make pretty decent red chili gravy!    I usually only make the Bechamel sauce for my Moussaka!
> ...



Don't eat that nasty Chit! It will kill ya! You can do better than that, John!


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## Tee (Sep 2, 2012)

YoBenny said:


> So the boss is thinking the photographer (also a friend of the groom's mom) will be no better, so she wants backup. (And also a photographer of her own to pull around by the nose)......



The courteous thing would be to ask the hired photographer if it's ok for you to shadow him/her.


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## table1349 (Sep 2, 2012)

I just put in the oven a batch of banana muffins.  When cooled they are topped with a cream cheese, marscapone, and honey frosting with walnuts sprinkled on top.  

Had hand ground burgers for lunch with a wonderful bit of pink inside instead of those over cooked things you have to have when using store bought ground chuck.


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## YoBenny (Sep 2, 2012)

I tossed some thighs in a casserole with butternut squash onions garlic bell peppers and spread fire roasted tomatoes over them cover bake till the house smells good.

This coming Thursday, (along with trying to take photographs) Im doing steak Da Bobs Veggie Ka Bobs and Shrimp Ke Bobs Mediterranean salad with kalamata anchovy tapenade and basil pesto vinaigrette and finishing with Bananas Foster luckily it all preps ahead except the foster and it's fun for people to watch you making it with all the flaming vittles and all, (Flambe to all you sophisticated folk and Flambeaux to Cajuns)
WHEW makes me tired just typin it!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## seakritter (Sep 2, 2012)

unpopular said:
			
		

> You may want to tell your ... uhm? Sister in law? No... uhh.... anyway ... that you are uncomfortable doing this, and that you'll try, but really strongly advise hiring a professional.
> 
> hell man, point her in the direction of some cheap fauxtographer, offer to split the cost and when **** hits the fan let him or her take the fall.



Amen brother


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## table1349 (Sep 2, 2012)

Ah yes, just last night we had Mediterranean crusted chicken with pecans, sun dried tomato and kalamata olive couscous and home made spicy pepper hummus with home made pita bread and a Mediterranean salad.


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## YoBenny (Sep 2, 2012)

Ewe Couscous that stuff gives you coodies.....


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## Jaemie (Sep 2, 2012)

YoBenny said:


> She has a couch and a piece of furniture that she wants her to pose with...



Not this. 

(Or do it to appease the family, but then take the bride elsewhere and take some better photos.)

Couch shots nearly always look like crap. Couch fabric rarely flatters. The couch back creates a hard line that usually interferes badly with the composition. The wall is almost never neutral and often has distracting pictures and other things hung upon it. And a couch is a very difficult surface on which to pose in a way that doesn't look slouchy. It's easy to sit up straight in a hard chair, by comparison.

Instead, find a nice neutral background, no hard horizontal lines (couch backs, fences, rails, tree lines...), no bright sky, not too busy, and set a fairly shallow DOF. Shoot several full body poses with plenty of empty space around the bride, and several tighter shots, most in portrait orientation preferably. Really take your time and think about the composition, lighting, and your settings. Don't be afraid to direct people and take charge. 

Good luck.


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## YoBenny (Sep 2, 2012)

And so does TOFU I can prove it my sister eats that junk all the time and she is as healthy as a horse and nutty as a fruitcake......


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## YoBenny (Sep 2, 2012)

*Jaemie* here is the couch I have to work with some old silk piece of junk as far as Im concerned and not what I would want a photo on but hey to each their own...


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## yv0nne (Sep 2, 2012)

I'd ditch the couch& go outside with the dog <3


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## Jaemie (Sep 2, 2012)

YoBenny said:


> *Jaemie* here is the couch I have to work with some old silk piece of junk as far as Im concerned and not what I would want a photo on but hey to each their own...View attachment 19193








umm.. ya. Find a nice patch of green grass or something.


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## cgipson1 (Sep 2, 2012)

yea bro.. lose that ugly ass couch...


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## YoBenny (Sep 2, 2012)

*OK tell ya what YOU TELLER HEHEHEHE*


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## Derrel (Sep 2, 2012)

Jaemie said:
			
		

> View attachment 19194
> 
> umm...



Dafuq!, indeed.... x2 !!!!!!!! zOMG, that couch is...simply.... _______________  ,  simply      ___________________.

(Pick a pejorative. Any pejorative. Then add a comma, and write the same pejorative, AGAIN!)


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## YoBenny (Sep 2, 2012)

*Yeah but if they actually frame a picture with* that couch in it, I can claim my work as good enough that topaz and tangerines go together,,,,,,,
I like the couch - IF YER 90.......

Got lots of plants outside in pots big ole plants can move them around thinkin maybe thats a better option for the poor girl, at least plants dont have a style curve do they?

99 I got ruined for Mediterranean food when I first went to whole foods and later Country Market by H.E.B. down here and actually bought ingredients that are supposed to go in that food. After I did that then buying just regular much of any of the things that go in that food is like fast food unless you spend the cash to buy the soprasata and parmesana reggioano and on and on till I decided I wouldnt got that route because to get the materials to make it right costs a fortune.


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## Tony S (Sep 3, 2012)

Since you need to wing it on the last minute you need a crutch.  Go old school and get a flash bracket and off camera cord to get the flash away from the camera. A Stofen diffuser will help, but then shoot in aperture mode with the flash on auto.  If your ceiling is somewhat low, try bouncing off a ceiling or wall to soften the light some more........ but man, doing this for a family member is going to really suck, you should be sitting back enjoying the wedding.


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## gsgary (Sep 3, 2012)

Tee said:
			
		

> The courteous thing would be to ask the hired photographer if it's ok for you to shadow him/her.



I bet this so called pro is off Face book


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## unpopular (Sep 3, 2012)

YoBenny said:


> *Jaemie* here is the couch I have to work with some old silk piece of junk as far as Im concerned and not what I would want a photo on but hey to each their own...View attachment 19193




Oh man. This is the thread that just keeps on giving!


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## amolitor (Sep 3, 2012)

Pull it out from the wall and have the bride bend over the back of it. If you're gettin' ***ed, I figure everyone else should be too.


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## YoBenny (Sep 3, 2012)

HA!!!!!!!!!
Don't worry I told the boss whut yall said about that ugly ass old couch, she didn't say nuttin which usually means "well alright but I don't like it...."

Maybe I should try to figure out this green screen thing I bought..........


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## TCampbell (Sep 3, 2012)

YoBenny said:


> Maybe I should try to figure out this green screen thing I bought..........



Gaaaah no don't do that!  Green screens (chroma-key) has it's own set of problems and takes time to learn.

Put some distance between your subject and everything in the background (never against a wall -- there are some guidelines for when a wall is ok, but you have 4 days (or is 3 by now) so no time to be technical.)  The green screen will be a disaster.  

Simple indoor lighting would involve using a POWERFUL flash (e.g. SB-600, 700, 900, etc.) and tilting the flash-head up so that it points at a "white" ceiling (and preferably not a very high ceiling) so that it can bounce the ceiling and create a large soft diffuse white light.  Leave the camera in "P" (program) mode.

I'd forget about the extra lighting.  Extra lights are probably just going to complicate things.    Ideally they should be "flash" (not continuous) and synchronized to the camera flash.  Extra flashes can be a problem since the camera flash shoots in Nikon iTTL mode -- and that fires a "pre-flash" to test the exposure before it fires the flash to take the real shot.  If the other flashes don't work with the same system, then they can fire for "pre-flash" and miss the real flash.  You could put the flash into manual mode so it wont fire a pre-flash but that would mean you'd need to understand how to set the flash power... and we're back to the problem of only 4 days to learn.  There are ways around all of these issues but it would involve acquiring the right gear and learning to use it and, as you said, you don't have time.

One can only hope this photographer she hired is decent.


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## YoBenny (Sep 3, 2012)

Well at this point I dont even want to pull the thing out, I learned a whole lot just in this thread mostly about what not to do which is everything I was planning on doing, so I'm just at where I'm at, don't know a thing, don't have the right light to do it right, don't know how to adjust for the discrepancy. 

I think I may just do some outdoor shooting where the light is natural or something. Thanks for all the advice, warnings, nah says, opinions on fashion, encouragement and conversation!


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## cgipson1 (Sep 3, 2012)

TCampbell said:


> Gaaaah no don't do that!  Green screens (chroma-key) has it's own set of problems and takes time to learn.





^THIS! Green Screen = BAD IDEA! Especially at your level of experience.


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## cgipson1 (Sep 3, 2012)

Seriously... if you can return those lights... do it! Get flashes instead...


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## Jaemie (Sep 3, 2012)

This very short video shows how to take a good outdoor portrait. Even without the big zoom, the fundamentals are easy to apply.


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## gsgary (Sep 3, 2012)

I can't wait to see the results


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## MLeeK (Sep 3, 2012)

I haven't read all of this, so forgive me if this has been covered: 
how much are you spending on that light system and extras to do this? Wouldn't it be easier, cheaper and wiser to hire a wanna be photographer off craigslist who will do it for peanuts? Granted you aren't going to get high end, but you can't learn this in a few days either and a newbie off CL will probably have more experience than you can gain in the time allotted.


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## Derrel (Sep 3, 2012)

MLeeK said:


> I haven't read all of this, so forgive me if this has been covered:
> how much are you spending on that light system and extras to do this? Wouldn't it be easier, cheaper and wiser to hire a wanna be photographer off craigslist who will do it for peanuts? Granted you aren't going to get high end, but you can't learn this in a few days either and a newbie off CL will probably have more experience than you can gain in the time allotted.



Why are you bringing reasonable thoughts and good ideas into this thread??? Have you not been paying attention? Do you not realize how badly this has devolved? We're over 50 posts in, and you're offering sound advice. STOP IT! Now is the time for cheap shots and nonsensical, or at the very least, tangential, remarks!


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## unpopular (Sep 3, 2012)

everyone knows that by post thirty everything goes goofy around here.


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## YoBenny (Sep 3, 2012)

Awe yall being too dang critical for not even reading the thread!
:cheers:
I'm the only one here who is supposed to NOT know what in the doowahzie I'm talking about and now yall are competing with me in my own Kingdom!

I AM the KING of Amateur photographer IDIOTS, I state my claim NOW and just TRY and take it from me!  

*BOW TO THE KING!!!* :hail::hail::hail::hail:

I'm sending back the camera, this hobby sucks, and God forbid actually trying to make a living with one of these when you are such an KING Of IDIOTS like ME!

But Im keepin the lights and muslim props, they are parts of my past, a stunning delivery of dazzling images from around the back yard!!!!
They are my trophies, and the KING of IDIOTS needs his trophies TOO!

Say What You Will I'm Still Winning!!!!!!!! 

3 days, 1,500 shots and I got three I would'nt throw out of bed......
To hell with the wedding I'm going camping.................

Off to a good start for a KING!!!!!!!!! hehehehehe


View attachment 19296


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## MLeeK (Sep 3, 2012)

Derrel said:


> MLeeK said:
> 
> 
> > I haven't read all of this, so forgive me if this has been covered:
> ...



Well, in that case... How about... hmmmmm. Well.... 


Yeah, I got nothing.



It's been a LONG weekend


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## YoBenny (Sep 3, 2012)

I appreciate the advice about sending things back the points in much better directions folks. Listen, to me this is like doing a big belly flop into the pool, these peripherals mean nothing to me in terms of value monetarily, even though I sho aint rich. The way I look at it, they can be used, and if I just want to learn how, I can. So they don't bother me sittin there.
I know a heck of a lot about light thanks to you folks that I didn't and directions to read in and make my purchases better but for now I have plenty to work with so I'm a happy idiot!
(That's the KING of idiots to YOU!) hehehehehe

So far I've learned that exposure is important but it's really nothing auto cant handle hehehe

Then there's depth of field but again that's nothing auto focus cant handle hehehe

Hell I'm still at just trying to hold the damn thing still yall be patient I is a good learner and someday yall will all hail the great king of idiots when he finally pulls off a decent shot!


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## Trig. (Sep 3, 2012)

Sw1tchFX said:


> Jesus Christ dude..
> 
> Just keep it simple and bounce your SB 400 off the ceiling.



LOL this man speaks the truth , a very vital and simple tool, if you do not know what you are doing with all the equipment i wouldn't suggest using it personally.


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## Jaemie (Sep 3, 2012)

YoBenny said:


> But Im keepin the lights and muslim props...



Gawd, I love typos...  :mrgreen:


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## YoBenny (Sep 3, 2012)

Yeah I can see you folks round here really like watchin others plunder along steppin in holes and yall going PPPFFFFFFFF!!! hehehehe

Thats OK I like it, after all, I am the King of Idiots, and I didn't take ANY of yalls advice NAH NAH nah nah NAAAHHH NAAHHH.. hehehehe

You just watch, Romney is gonna be callin me to do his club membership photos, you just wait...........


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## unpopular (Sep 3, 2012)

YoBenny said:


> Yeah I can see you folks round here really like watchin others plunder along steppin in holes and yall going PPPFFFFFFFF!!! hehehehe



I see English in there. Why can't I understand a word you're saying?


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## YoBenny (Sep 3, 2012)

WTF? Now that was weird, yall don't have a lot of weird people here who expect you to understand them do you?


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## bratkinson (Sep 4, 2012)

Follow TCampbell's instructions on the previous page! That should get you through.

It sounds like you just got your drivers license and now you've entered the Indianapolis 500 Race! I've heard of sink or swim in photography, but from zero to wedding photographer??? You've GOT to be kidding!


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