# Going Pro- Need vs Desire & Work output to Satisfaction input ratios



## JustJazzie

I may or may not have posted something similar to this in the past, as I dance around to this question as often as the seasons change.

I am "lucky" enough that our circumstances allow me to stay at home. ( I really cant credit luck, but must acknowledge my husbands hard work and drive that has landed us in this situation)

And yet, I always come back to this idea that I should be doing things on a professional level. I try and locate the roots of my motivation but have so far been unable to do this. Is it because being " a professional" is simply a prestigious title that I subconsciously believe would caress my delicate ego? Perhaps it stems from a desire to create an identity outside of teaching and raising kids. Could it be the currently imagined satisfaction of having work worthy enough of payment? I read something recently posted I am positive I am misquoting, but I cant locate where I originally read "I got to a level where I felt morally obligated to take on paid work" The idea struck a chord and perhaps it is a motivation similar to this. Is it that I have seen there is more of an investment/motivation to follow my direction as an artist when there is an exchange of currency and I feel like I cant take my work to the "next level" unless I have a subject willing to invest the same amount of energy?

 I like to think it is the elation I get throughout the creative process, and the smile's I see on my "Clients" faces when I present them with their images that fuels my ambition.

Realistically, I am sure it is a mixture of all these things

On the other side of a balanced scale- there is taxes, hard work, inevitably difficult clients, marketing and a general energy commitment that goes along with it.

If you are still with me....

I suppose what I am wondering is, if the work output to satisfaction input ratio is something that can be pre-calculated? Or does it really just come down to jumping in, testing the waters and experiencing first hand, fulfillment or lack thereof?
Did you know you would enjoy photography as a career before you started?
Is it simply a means to a end?
Would you do it if you didn't have too?


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## Braineack

It was more that I didn't start to take pay work until I felt I was up to snuff


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## JustJazzie

Braineack said:


> It was more that I didn't start to take pay work until I felt I was up to snuff


Maybe it was someone else then... My long term memory is quite short and my short term memory is never long enough. 

I went ahead and unquoted you in the original post.

And for the record, your work is well above Snuff!!


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## SCraig

It could be all of the above.

I would point out one thing though, and perhaps it is just a personal issue.  Any time I have taken a job related to a hobby I have enjoyed I quickly lost interest in it as a hobby.  Work, at least to me, takes a lot of the fun out of a hobby and I start to lose interest.

I worked in a camera store decades ago, and second-shot a number of weddings with the company's owner and also shot a few school events solo.  It didn't take me long to realize that I had absolutely zero interest in pursuing a career in photography because I also realized that I hadn't picked up my personal camera in months.

Since then I have always made it a point to keep work and hobby well-separated.  My hobbies are for enjoyment, my work is to pay the bills.  That's not to say I don't enjoy my work, I do, but I don't come home and design pump stations for pleasure either.


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## tirediron

You won't know 'til you give it a whirl.  Once you're satisfied that your photographic skills are at the requisite level (and my acid test for that is:  Could you walk into a wedding to find out that everything from the church layout to the weather to the reception venue and the location for the formals had changed 180 degrees, and have the skill and equipment to make it work?)  then you need to get into the whole business side.  Do you like (or can you tolerate) the pressure of demanding clients, of having 2-3 jobs backed up and a leaking roof that has to be sorted?  I'll be honest... I don't always like that part, but when I deliver a folio of images to client of which I am proud and they love... it's all worth it.


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## Derrel

This is a fascinating set of questions you pose, and the answers and not at all "obvious", to me at least. I dunno...at one time, long ago, I had the skills and equipment to shoot photos that the average person simply could not take. I worked in high-volume family photography studios where 20,25,30 sets per day were the absolute norm, and you had to be super-efficient, quick, cheerful, and have stamina; you learned the most-efficient methods, and the best ways to boost print sales. You learned about , "Building enthusiasm at the time of the session," to get people excited about seeing the proofs later. You learned about , "Shooting for a collection of images," and about, "Selling canvas print images," and so on. You learned when to short light, when to broad light, and when to use soft light or highly-diffused light, how to make the fat look thinner, and how to make the normal people look better than average.

The photo business is different now; professional photography is different; the way people use and display photos is different; the way people have done photos is different; the way people buy images is different. Today, I think you are ready to open your wings and fly. You can shoot reasonably well, and can make images that are as good, or better, or far better, that what I see daily on Facebook as "professionally done photos."

I think you have the requisite skills to start your professional photography career. I wish you all the best!


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## vintagesnaps

I think it sounds more like you want to do something with photography to benefit people in some way. If you wanted to go into business you'd probably be excited to learn all the business aspects and would just do it. 

I planned in high school to go into journalism, then worked one summer at a camp for kids with special needs, and that was it - I decided that's what I wanted to do and went to a university where I could get a specific certification (which was new at the time and not everybody had it). Eventually one thing led to another and I went into Early Intervention and took courses for that licensure. Then did that for 20+ years. 

With photography I bought my first SLR after graduating. The local camera store let me make payments every pay day till I finally paid for the thing. Photography was always a sideline, but things would happen like me taking pictures at my nephew's Little League and somebody asking if I was taking pictures for the local paper... I just knew at some point I'd do 'something' with my photography, I just didn't know what. I never planned on sports photography, but I guess if you hang around local rinks enough somebody eventually puts you to work... What actually happened was giving photos to the booster club and someone saw my pictures and word gets around and next season the home opener I'm out on the ice for the ceremonial puck drop thinking, please don't let me fall on my butt in front of 15 thousand people!

Now I'm doing submissions to art exhibits and getting some photos accepted and hanging in displays, which was more along the lines of what I'd thought I'd do someday. For me it seems to have often been one thing leading to another and taking opportunities when they arise. 

And you have to love it. John made some good points - you have to love it on the worst days. I have to love shooting hockey enough to stand for a couple of hours, part of that waiting for players to be on the side of the ice with the new dasher ad I needed, but not in front of the sponsor's name, etc. etc. It's fun but tiring and a lot of work. 

And working with kids, yeah there are good days and bad days, you gotta love it on the bad days when all the kids are fussy and you get covered in baby spit
up in the morning and smell it all day even if you changed shirts, and there's a fire drill the day you were using red paint and you gotta pick up the kid and go thru the rest of the day with red hand prints on the back of your shirt... OK some of the bad days are funny days too. 

But you gotta love it to do it over the long haul. It doesn't sound like running a portrait photography business is the driving force for you with photography. I suppose it's a matter of figuring out what is driving you to do photography. Probably it would take finding your niche, one place that you'd connect with that may have an interest in you coming in and taking photos maybe for an event in your community, etc. Maybe the challenge is finding that.


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## Braineack

JustJazzie said:


> Braineack said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was more that I didn't start to take pay work until I felt I was up to snuff
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe it was someone else then... My long term memory is quite short and my short term memory is never long enough.
> 
> I went ahead and unquoted you in the original post.
> 
> And for the record, your work is well above Snuff!!
Click to expand...


I'm looking for the thread, it was in a rant about crummy Facebook photographers.  I was saying something like I would be morally bankrupt taking money for work if I wasn't ready and/or when I was still learning/figuring it all out.  I will GLADLY take people's money now, and no longer like to shoot for free.


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## SquarePeg

Braineack said:


> JustJazzie said:
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> 
> Braineack said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was more that I didn't start to take pay work until I felt I was up to snuff
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe it was someone else then... My long term memory is quite short and my short term memory is never long enough.
> 
> I went ahead and unquoted you in the original post.
> 
> And for the record, your work is well above Snuff!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm looking for the thread, it was in a rant about crummy Facebook photographers.  I was saying something like I would be morally bankrupt taking money for work if I wasn't ready and/or when I was still learning/figuring it all out.  I will GLADLY take people's money now, and no longer like to shoot for free.
Click to expand...


Thread started by @smoke665


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## SquarePeg

Hi Jazzie - can't really help with any professional info but if you're looking to take it up a level for fulfillment purposes, what about volunteering your skills?  I have a friend in NC who volunteers for an organization that takes family photos for service people dealing with deployment.  I'm not sure of the exact name of the organization but I just googled it and there seem to be quite a few of them...  Also, no matter your politics, most local organizations use volunteer photographers for their events and candidate social media posts.  Something to consider if you're passionate about a particular cause.


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## smoke665

SCraig said:


> Since then I have always made it a point to keep work and hobby well-separated. My hobbies are for enjoyment, my work is to pay the bills. That's not to say I don't enjoy my work, I do, but I don't come home and design pump stations for pleasure either.



The quickest way to take the fun out of a hobby is to make it a job. You mentioned that circumstances allowed you to stay at home. One of the first considerations I would have is how that will impact that status. The second consideration would be do I need the money enough to give up that status?  Echoing  SCraig, I kept my work and my hobbies separate.


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## JustJazzie

@SCraig - you make some valid points! Thank you for chiming in. And now I am curious if there is anyone out there opposite you, who does photography for a living and designs pump stations as a hobby. :giggle:

@tirediron - The whole "you wont know until you try" thing is  what I was afraid of. I am a pretty stubborn over here with my Taurus rising and Scorpio moon- when I set my mind to something, I'm usually in it for better or for worse- lest I be considered a quitter. I would hate to see any of my other commitments suffer. You raise good questions. I will ponder them. Thank you.

@Derrel, the photo industry certainly has evolved. I am not sure if thats good or bad for photographers! Lol. Thank you for the boost of confidence, should I choose to proceed.

@vintagesnaps Some great thoughts in there! I am definitely trying to clearly define my driving force. Once I do that, perhaps the decision would be easier. Thank you for your thoughts.

@Braineack the facebook chatter is certainly ringing a bell! Thanks for sparking my memory!

@SquarePeg I do like that Idea! We are quite close to several military bases. I've looked up a few charities in the past, but I hadn't heard of/considered one for deployments. DH is a DV who served three tours in iraq, so that is definitely a charity I could stand behind. Thank you for the suggestion!

@smoke665 I believe that I could still stay at home as long as I kept to shooting only 2-3 sessions a month. I live in a very small town, so I think thats a feasible goal. Sustainable and profitable? I have no idea! Thank you for the thoughts to consider.


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## JustJazzie

@SquarePeg  I think I ran into this last time I checked out volunteer opportunities- Every organization I have found (so far) wants for professional information on the photographers application. EIN numbers, Years you've been in business, link to professional websites ETC. So its unlikely I would qualify without going into business first.


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## smoke665

SquarePeg said:


> Hi Jazzie - can't really help with any professional info but if you're looking to take it up a level for fulfillment purposes, what about volunteering your skills?  I have a friend in NC who volunteers for an organization that takes family photos for service people dealing with deployment.  I'm not sure of the exact name of the organization but I just googled it and there seem to be quite a few of them...  Also, no matter your politics, most local organizations use volunteer photographers for their events and candidate social media posts.  Something to consider if you're passionate about a particular cause.



While I'm not looking for a job, with a son who is a disabled Vet, I could get into this as a way to help other Vets!!!


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## SquarePeg

JustJazzie said:


> @SquarePeg  I think I ran into this last time I checked out volunteer opportunities- Every organization I have found (so far) wants for professional information on the photographers application. EIN numbers, Years you've been in business, link to professional websites ETC. So its unlikely I would qualify without going into business first.



I'll see if I can find out the name of the org my friend volunteered for.  She did very very briefly have a website and offer "sessions" to local friends for Christmas cards and the like so she may have had all of that but I would think a few examples of your work would suffice!


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## JustJazzie

SquarePeg said:


> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> @SquarePeg  I think I ran into this last time I checked out volunteer opportunities- Every organization I have found (so far) wants for professional information on the photographers application. EIN numbers, Years you've been in business, link to professional websites ETC. So its unlikely I would qualify without going into business first.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll see if I can find out the name of the org my friend volunteered for.  She did very very briefly have a website and offer "sessions" to local friends for Christmas cards and the like so she may have had all of that but I would think a few examples of your work would suffice!
Click to expand...

It might be something I'd have to contact the company directly (pre application) to discuss. Of corse, they don't mention another way to show samples of work. I also wonder if its an insurance thing? If they only use pros who carry insurance, then they wouldn't need to carry it themselves?


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## smoke665

JustJazzie said:


> . I also wonder if its an insurance thing? If they only use pros who carry insurance, then they wouldn't need to carry it themselves?



You may be right. I checked a few sites, and they all required verification of professional status. Still if you're close to a base, it wouldn't prevent someone from posting on bulletin boards/facebook/etc. offering free photography services.


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## Vtec44

JustJazzie said:


> I suppose what I am wondering is, if the work output to satisfaction input ratio is something that can be pre-calculated? Or does it really just come down to jumping in, testing the waters and experiencing first hand, fulfillment or lack thereof?
> Did you know you would enjoy photography as a career before you started?
> Is it simply a means to a end?
> Would you do it if you didn't have too?



I don't think you can calculate out the exact ratio when it comes to work output/satisfaction.  You're dealing with people and people are unpredictable.   You will have bad days and good days, hopefully more good days than bad.

I started my business in 2012 and not only that it is my only source of income, I'm also the primary provider of my household.  When it comes to the artistic side of a photography business, it can be repetitive.  I enjoy both the business aspect and the creative aspect of running a photography business.  Before I went full time, I was afraid that by making it a business I won't be able to enjoy photography.  I actually enjoy photography very much and my clients love that I'm so passionate about what I do.  So, yes I knew I would enjoy photography.

A means to an end?  I'm not sure exactly what you mean.  

I would do it much earlier in life if I had to go back and do it again.


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## JustJazzie

Vtec44 said:


> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose what I am wondering is, if the work output to satisfaction input ratio is something that can be pre-calculated? Or does it really just come down to jumping in, testing the waters and experiencing first hand, fulfillment or lack thereof?
> Did you know you would enjoy photography as a career before you started?
> Is it simply a means to a end?
> Would you do it if you didn't have too?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think you can calculate out the exact ratio when it comes to work output/satisfaction.  You're dealing with people and people are unpredictable.   You will have bad days and good days, hopefully more good days than bad.
> 
> I started my business in 2012 and not only that it is my only source of income, I'm also the primary provider of my household.  When it comes to the artistic side of a photography business, it can be repetitive.  I enjoy both the business aspect and the creative aspect of running a photography business.  Before I went full time, I was afraid that by making it a business I won't be able to enjoy photography.  I actually enjoy photography very much and my clients love that I'm so passionate about what I do.  So, yes I knew I would enjoy photography.
> 
> A means to an end?  I'm not sure exactly what you mean.
> 
> I would do it much earlier in life if I had to go back and do it again.
Click to expand...

People, unpredictable?! WHAT?! 

I am glad to hear it is possible to love photography as a job, and as a hobby/passion. 

I am wondering if it makes more sense to wait until both kids are in middle school and a little more independent to pursue this. Or do I pursue it now, with the idea that it will take a few years to really get the ball rolling and a steady stream of work/clients? So many questions, so few that can be answered definitely!

Lots more thinking to do.


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## JonA_CT

JustJazzie said:


> Vtec44 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose what I am wondering is, if the work output to satisfaction input ratio is something that can be pre-calculated? Or does it really just come down to jumping in, testing the waters and experiencing first hand, fulfillment or lack thereof?
> Did you know you would enjoy photography as a career before you started?
> Is it simply a means to a end?
> Would you do it if you didn't have too?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think you can calculate out the exact ratio when it comes to work output/satisfaction.  You're dealing with people and people are unpredictable.   You will have bad days and good days, hopefully more good days than bad.
> 
> I started my business in 2012 and not only that it is my only source of income, I'm also the primary provider of my household.  When it comes to the artistic side of a photography business, it can be repetitive.  I enjoy both the business aspect and the creative aspect of running a photography business.  Before I went full time, I was afraid that by making it a business I won't be able to enjoy photography.  I actually enjoy photography very much and my clients love that I'm so passionate about what I do.  So, yes I knew I would enjoy photography.
> 
> A means to an end?  I'm not sure exactly what you mean.
> 
> I would do it much earlier in life if I had to go back and do it again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> People, unpredictable?! WHAT?!
> 
> I am glad to hear it is possible to love photography as a job, and as a hobby/passion.
> 
> I am wondering if it makes more sense to wait until both kids are in middle school and a little more independent to pursue this. Or do I pursue it now, with the idea that it will take a few years to really get the ball rolling and a steady stream of work/clients? So many questions, so few that can be answered definitely!
> 
> Lots more thinking to do.
Click to expand...


I'm not a pro. But I think you should go for it. You seem passionate and interested, and you are fortunate enough to be in a place where the consequences aren't terrible if it doesn't work out. I also think it's much more likely that you'd regret waiting than you would regret giving it a shot.

I totally get the idea about waiting for your kids to be older...but honestly, I'm sure you can be a kick-ass mom and a kick-ass photographer at the same time. When you're running the books, it's a lot easier to let your priorities rule your business. One of the really successful wedding photographers around here (booked out at least two years, charges about the max the market will bear) takes the entire month of August off every year. My friends were incredulous when they called to book her...but she was really straight forward and said that her kids are off from school and it's more important for her to be a mom. 

Anyways...just my two cents.


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## JustJazzie

@JonA_CT thanks so much for chiming in!! I suppose I did leave out in the original post, that  I hopeschool my 2 kids. However, we do that year round about 15 days a month. So I sort of have the other 15 days when my DH is off work and can take the kids- but it cuts into family time. 

I suppose though, there’s no way to figure out how much time it actually cuts, without just giving it a go!

And you’re right, if I decide it isn’t working- there isn’t any huge loss, or inevitable epic catastrophe. Just a little money wasted on it.


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## JonA_CT

JustJazzie said:


> @JonA_CT thanks so much for chiming in!! I suppose I did leave out in the original post, that  I hopeschool my 2 kids. However, we do that year round about 15 days a month. So I sort of have the other 15 days when my DH is off work and can take the kids- but it cuts into family time.
> 
> I suppose though, there’s no way to figure out how much time it actually cuts, without just giving it a go!
> 
> And you’re right, if I decide it isn’t working- there isn’t any huge loss, or inevitable epic catastrophe. Just a little money wasted on it.



Hey...think of all the home school lessons you could create to help the business get off the ground. Lots of connection to math, reading and writing skills, communicating effectively...


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## JustJazzie

JonA_CT said:


> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> @JonA_CT thanks so much for chiming in!! I suppose I did leave out in the original post, that  I hopeschool my 2 kids. However, we do that year round about 15 days a month. So I sort of have the other 15 days when my DH is off work and can take the kids- but it cuts into family time.
> 
> I suppose though, there’s no way to figure out how much time it actually cuts, without just giving it a go!
> 
> And you’re right, if I decide it isn’t working- there isn’t any huge loss, or inevitable epic catastrophe. Just a little money wasted on it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey...think of all the home school lessons you could create to help the business get off the ground. Lots of connection to math, reading and writing skills, communicating effectively...
Click to expand...

:Giggle!: You make a valid connection there! I also have a built in reflector holder in my 9 year old. I can count it towards his art/business credits! LOL 

I hadn't really considered it beneficial to my teaching skills, Thank you for pointing that out!


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## Vtec44

JustJazzie said:


> People, unpredictable?! WHAT?!
> 
> I am glad to hear it is possible to love photography as a job, and as a hobby/passion.
> 
> I am wondering if it makes more sense to wait until both kids are in middle school and a little more independent to pursue this. Or do I pursue it now, with the idea that it will take a few years to really get the ball rolling and a steady stream of work/clients? So many questions, so few that can be answered definitely!
> 
> Lots more thinking to do.




Oh, profitability doesn't happen over night.  So you may turn pro today, but you will spend a lot time trying to turn the business into a self-sustaining and reliable source of income on its own and not just side money.  That doesn't happen over night and it changes how you lay the foundation of your business.  When I started, the business was never side money and I used my 9-5 job as a tool to build my business.  In the back of my mind, I wanted to quit my day job so  I pushed myself to make sure that I don't slack off.  It is so easy to slack off when it's just extra money.  By slack off, I mean that you don't build the business with the mentality for it to be self-sustaining in the long run when you have no other sources of income.


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## JustJazzie

Vtec44 said:


> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> People, unpredictable?! WHAT?!
> 
> I am glad to hear it is possible to love photography as a job, and as a hobby/passion.
> 
> I am wondering if it makes more sense to wait until both kids are in middle school and a little more independent to pursue this. Or do I pursue it now, with the idea that it will take a few years to really get the ball rolling and a steady stream of work/clients? So many questions, so few that can be answered definitely!
> 
> Lots more thinking to do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, profitability doesn't happen over night.  So you may turn pro today, but you will spend a lot time trying to turn the business into a self-sustaining and reliable source of income on its own and not just side money.  That doesn't happen over night and it changes how you lay the foundation of your business.  When I started, the business was never side money and I used my 9-5 job as a tool to build my business.  In the back of my mind, I wanted to quit my day job so  I pushed myself to make sure that I don't slack off.  It is so easy to slack off when it's just extra money.  By slack off, I mean that you don't build the business with the mentality for it to be self-sustaining in the long run when you have no other sources of income.
Click to expand...

I wonder how the mentality shifts if all I am seeking is a part time thing, maybe only shooting 2-3 times a month. Possibly more as my time grows. hmmm.....


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## Vtec44

JustJazzie said:


> I wonder how the mentality shifts if all I am seeking is a part time thing, maybe only shooting 2-3 times a month. Possibly more as my time grows. hmmm.....



IMHO, build your business as if someday your family will rely on it as the sole source of income.    That mentality will push you beyond what you think you're capable of, and all of us are very capable but we just don't realize it yet.


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## JustJazzie

Vtec44 said:


> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder how the mentality shifts if all I am seeking is a part time thing, maybe only shooting 2-3 times a month. Possibly more as my time grows. hmmm.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMHO, build your business as if someday your family will rely on it as the sole source of income.    That mentality will push you beyond what you think you're capable of, and all of us are very capable but we just don't realize it yet.
Click to expand...

I do get that mentality, for sure! But having it as a sole source of income also means full time commitment- and if that is the mentality I have to have to succeed on a smaller scale, then am not sure it is the right choice for me at this phase in life.


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## Vtec44

JustJazzie said:


> I do get that mentality, for sure! But having it as a sole source of income also means full time commitment- and if that is the mentality I have to have to succeed on a smaller scale, then am not sure it is the right choice for me at this phase in life.



Yeah we're all different.  That's just my own personal perspective and obviously it may not work for everyone.


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## JustJazzie

Vtec44 said:


> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do get that mentality, for sure! But having it as a sole source of income also means full time commitment- and if that is the mentality I have to have to succeed on a smaller scale, then am not sure it is the right choice for me at this phase in life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah we're all different.  That's just my own personal perspective and obviously it may not work for everyone.
Click to expand...

I am a HUGE believer of the saying "Where focus goes, energy flows" And no doubt the energy and mindset you carry is absolutely tied to your amazing work and success as a business! 

When the kids are grown, I would love to change my full time focus in that direction. Right now though, its all about finding the balance between following my desires, and raising my kiddos. For now, family life needs to remain the fulcrum.


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## Vtec44

JustJazzie said:


> Vtec44 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do get that mentality, for sure! But having it as a sole source of income also means full time commitment- and if that is the mentality I have to have to succeed on a smaller scale, then am not sure it is the right choice for me at this phase in life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah we're all different.  That's just my own personal perspective and obviously it may not work for everyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am a HUGE believer of the saying "Where focus goes, energy flows" And no doubt the energy and mindset you carry is absolutely tied to your amazing work and success as a business!
> 
> When the kids are grown, I would love to change my full time focus in that direction. Right now though, its all about finding the balance between following my desires, and raising my kiddos. For now, family life needs to remain the fulcrum.
Click to expand...



Amen to both points.  So, when are you doing this?


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## JustJazzie

Vtec44 said:


> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vtec44 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do get that mentality, for sure! But having it as a sole source of income also means full time commitment- and if that is the mentality I have to have to succeed on a smaller scale, then am not sure it is the right choice for me at this phase in life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah we're all different.  That's just my own personal perspective and obviously it may not work for everyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am a HUGE believer of the saying "Where focus goes, energy flows" And no doubt the energy and mindset you carry is absolutely tied to your amazing work and success as a business!
> 
> When the kids are grown, I would love to change my full time focus in that direction. Right now though, its all about finding the balance between following my desires, and raising my kiddos. For now, family life needs to remain the fulcrum.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Amen to both points.  So, when are you doing this?
Click to expand...

Lol! 
Maybe sometime in January. Seems nice and and theme with new beginnings!

Or maybe for my 30th birthday I’ll tell DH I want a busniess liscense and insurance.


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## Designer

JustJazzie said:


> When the kids are grown, I would love to change my full time focus in that direction. Right now though, its all about finding the balance between following my desires, and raising my kiddos. For now, family life needs to remain the fulcrum.


I see nothing wrong with going slowly.  You can still satisfy your creative urges and do so at your own pace.  

I agree with getting a liability umbrella, and perhaps your current homeowner's insurance carrier can do that, and it would no doubt be affordable as a "rider" with the same company.  Call your insurance man.  

You might not actually need a business license, as it mostly depends on what towns you work in.  Call the town clerk to find out.

You don't have employees, so you probably won't need an EIN.  You can obtain a tax I.D. number for submitting sales tax by calling your state government.  They have people just sitting at their desks waiting for your call.

You will probably find your attention drifting from school to your photography business, and you should be ready for that, and if it becomes a source of stress, then you'll know you are over-booking and should cut back.  

Use little bits of spare time to dream up your business name, cards, stationery, and website, etc.  Do the research required as you find the time, so you don't feel pressured.  If you take it slowly, there shouldn't be a problem.


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## JustJazzie

Designer said:


> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> When the kids are grown, I would love to change my full time focus in that direction. Right now though, its all about finding the balance between following my desires, and raising my kiddos. For now, family life needs to remain the fulcrum.
> 
> 
> 
> I see nothing wrong with going slowly.  You can still satisfy your creative urges and do so at your own pace.
> 
> I agree with getting a liability umbrella, and perhaps your current homeowner's insurance carrier can do that, and it would no doubt be affordable as a "rider" with the same company.  Call your insurance man.
> 
> You might not actually need a business license, as it mostly depends on what towns you work in.  Call the town clerk to find out.
> 
> You don't have employees, so you probably won't need an EIN.  You can obtain a tax I.D. number for submitting sales tax by calling your state government.  They have people just sitting at their desks waiting for your call.
> 
> You will probably find your attention drifting from school to your photography business, and you should be ready for that, and if it becomes a source of stress, then you'll know you are over-booking and should cut back.
> 
> Use little bits of spare time to dream up your business name, cards, stationery, and website, etc.  Do the research required as you find the time, so you don't feel pressured.  If you take it slowly, there shouldn't be a problem.
Click to expand...


Thank you so much for all of the useful thoughts!

I remember last time I went through the planning phase I had decided getting filed as an LLC was the best option liability wise. I honestly cant remember my exact reasoning, only that it was my conclusion. I will have to look further into local laws to find out. 

Great advise on staying mindful of where my attention/energy is going. I think it would be best to set aside a certain time/day for "work days" to help keep my focus separate and on task. 

Although, "little bits of spare time" are all over our school days. I am on call during school hours for questions. Its not enough time to get anything useful done without interruption, but theres plenty of time to surf Pinterest and save fonts/layouts etc!

Thank you again! Lots of good food for thought there.


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## TreeofLifeStairs

I’m in agreement with what @Vtec44 has been saying. One of the things that stood out to me is that he said he enjoyed the business aspect of it. This is the part that so many artists (I mean that in the much larger sense not just photographers) have issue with. They want to be able to just do their art and not be hassled by the business side of it. My business is not photography but it is artistic and I went into it knowing that it could ruin my love for woodworking. Part of this is due to the nature of getting paid for something. When you’re getting paid you’re doing something that someone else wants not necessarily what you want. 

My wife makes custom cakes and she does it because she likes it but never wants to make a business out of it. It’s just something she does for some extra income for friends. She doesn’t have a business license or insurance but we do report her income to the irs. I think this is more the route I would go after hearing the way you have described what you’re looking for. Since you’re not baking cakes it would be advisable to carry insurance and in which case you’d need to get a dba but these are super easy and not very expensive. I don’t think I’d go through the hassle of starting an llc for something part time. 



Sent from my iPhone using ThePhotoForum.com mobile app


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## tirediron

JustJazzie said:


> @SquarePeg  I think I ran into this last time I checked out volunteer opportunities- Every organization I have found (so far) wants for professional information on the photographers application. EIN numbers, Years you've been in business, link to professional websites ETC. So its unlikely I would qualify without going into business first.


This seems odd to me.  I have some fairly major clients on my "charity list" including Wounded Warriors Canada, The Royal Canadian Legion, Hero Works and others.  None of them have asked question one about insurance, skills, experience, etc.  In fact when they find out I might be a little more than someone who just picked up a camera at Best Buy, they're usually absolutely delighted.


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## tirediron

Vtec44 said:


> Oh, profitability doesn't happen over night.  So you may turn pro today, but you will spend a lot time trying to turn the business into a self-sustaining and reliable source of income on its own and not just side money.  That doesn't happen over night and it changes how you lay the foundation of your business.  When I started, the business was never side money and I used my 9-5 job as a tool to build my business.  In the back of my mind, I wanted to quit my day job so  I pushed myself to make sure that I don't slack off.  It is so easy to slack off when it's just extra money.  By slack off, I mean that you don't build the business with the mentality for it to be self-sustaining in the long run when you have no other sources of income.


FTFY


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## tirediron

JustJazzie said:


> ...Or maybe for my 30th birthday ...


30th birthday??????  Dear gawd...  I have socks that have celebrated their 30th birthday.


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## JustJazzie

tirediron said:


> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> @SquarePeg  I think I ran into this last time I checked out volunteer opportunities- Every organization I have found (so far) wants for professional information on the photographers application. EIN numbers, Years you've been in business, link to professional websites ETC. So its unlikely I would qualify without going into business first.
> 
> 
> 
> This seems odd to me.  I have some fairly major clients on my "charity list" including Wounded Warriors Canada, The Royal Canadian Legion, Hero Works and others.  None of them have asked question one about insurance, skills, experience, etc.  In fact when they find out I might be a little more than someone who just picked up a camera at Best Buy, they're usually absolutely delighted.
Click to expand...

Thats interesting! All of the internet applications have this on it, one of them even wanted my camera model. Probably to weed out the unqualified. It might be something I need to contact the organizations directly and ask if there is a way to share my portfolio and go around their standard form. 

Thank you!


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## AlanKlein

Success is 10% inspiration and 90% perspiration.


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