# All my digital gear is on Craigslist . . .



## elemental (Jan 7, 2009)

I never thought it would happen, or at least not this suddenly. With a little extra money in my pocket and a little more coming along in a few months (being a student with almost no income leads to awesome tax returns), I was ready to take the plunge into investing in some serious glass. I looked at Pentax primes both old and new (and I still think Pentax has some of the best glass ever made, especially when it comes to value per dollar), and I couldn't bring myself to do it. I'm just too afraid.

Pentax had a great thing going with the 645D. A medium format digital body with great lens support (great 645 lenses are abundant, and the mount was to be the same). It likely would have crushed something like a D3X as a studio camera, and would have cost less. They developed it. They built it. They showed it. They disappeared it. Rumors swirled around a full frame professional body (K2D/K3D). It never saw the light of day, if it ever existed. Pentax is one of the greatest that ever was, a legend in the camera business. However, when it comes time to really invest in equipment for a system, I want to know for sure that the professional bodies will be there when I need them. I just don't see the commitment to the top end of the range.

I really don't regret buying Pentax. I think the K100D was the best entry-level camera on the market. I think the K200D is the best entry-level camera on the market. I learned everything I know on Pentax, and it's what got me interested in film (by accident, of course). It's just time to move on.

Having decided this (and with a very minimal investment in the system), I am jumping ship. Based on my previous ranting and raving about which brands I hate and which I merely dislike, can anyone guess where I'm going?


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## stsinner (Jan 7, 2009)

Polaroid?


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## Parkerman (Jan 7, 2009)

elemental said:


> I never thought it would happen, or at least not this suddenly. With a little extra money in my pocket and a little more coming along in a few months (being a student with almost no income leads to awesome tax returns), I was ready to take the plunge into investing in some serious glass. I looked at Pentax primes both old and new (and I still think Pentax has some of the best glass ever made, especially when it comes to value per dollar), and I couldn't bring myself to do it. I'm just too afraid.
> 
> Pentax had a great thing going with the 645D. A medium format digital body with great lens support (great 645 lenses are abundant, and the mount was to be the same). It likely would have crushed something like a D3X as a studio camera, and would have cost less. They developed it. They built it. They showed it. They disappeared it. Rumors swirled around a full frame professional body (K2D/K3D). It never saw the light of day, if it ever existed. Pentax is one of the greatest that ever was, a legend in the camera business. However, when it comes time to really invest in equipment for a system, I want to know for sure that the professional bodies will be there when I need them. I just don't see the commitment to the top end of the range.
> 
> ...




I've never seen your rants, but... Im just gonna guess... Sony?


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## elemental (Jan 7, 2009)

Parkerman said:


> I've never seen your rants, but... Im just gonna guess... Sony?



Rants was probably the wrong word. I am more of a snide remarker.


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## Fiendish Astronaut (Jan 7, 2009)

Well clearly it's Nikon or Canon. I'm gonna bet Nikon - even though personally I prefer Canon.


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## mrodgers (Jan 7, 2009)

I want to know how to get big tax returns when you have little to no income!

Might have to quit my job, get a divorce, and let the wife have full custody of the kids as I hardly get anything back.


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## jlykins (Jan 7, 2009)

I'm hoping Nikon...


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## JerryPH (Jan 7, 2009)

Hrm... young age, no income, big returns... Mamiya digital back and a 200mm F/2.8?


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## Iron Flatline (Jan 7, 2009)

Leica ftw


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## elemental (Jan 7, 2009)

JerryPH said:


> Hrm... young age, no income, big returns... Mamiya digital back and a 200mm F/2.8?


 
Allow me to clarify. I get a big percentage of what was withheld back. I don't think any of you would consider it "big" money. Less Mamiya medium format and more like a pair of plastic fantastics.

Did that give it away?


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## usayit (Jan 7, 2009)

Curious (i missed your previous ranting/remarks), what about the Pentax system is not meeting your expectations/needs?

I agree that Pentax really dropped the ball on the 645D.  It could have become the first "affordable" (relatively) digital medium format system. 

I am guessing Nikon.


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## AtlPikMan (Jan 7, 2009)

I say Nikon, because deep down you know it was better anyway...


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## Village Idiot (Jan 7, 2009)

Canon 5D MKII or 1D MKIII?


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## elemental (Jan 7, 2009)

usayit said:


> Curious (i missed your previous ranting/remarks), what about the Pentax system is not meeting your expectations/needs?
> 
> I agree that Pentax really dropped the ball on the 645D.  It could have become the first "affordable" (relatively) digital medium format system.
> 
> I am guessing Nikon.



The limited upward expandability, combined with the fact that I am looking into graduate programs that would put me in a field where it would probably be relatively easy to pick up freelance commercial work. I could invest my limited cash in K-mount lenses, but if the best camera I can mount them to is a K20D, I wasted it.

Pentax doesn't have the high-end bodies that I'd like now and may need later, and I don't want to be tied to a system that could tie me down in the future.


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## elemental (Jan 7, 2009)

AtlPikMan said:


> I say Nikon, because deep down you know it was better anyway...



Bingo.

I am looking at D200s (if only because D80s have become difficult to source reliably used).


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## Kegger (Jan 7, 2009)

How bout a used D300. They can be had for relatively cheap nowadays.


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## elemental (Jan 7, 2009)

Kegger said:


> How bout a used D300. They can be had for relatively cheap nowadays.



They're still about double what a D200 costs, and out of my price range.


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## ANDS! (Jan 7, 2009)

elemental said:


> They're still about double what a D200 costs, and out of my price range.


 
People are dropping them for 1100 gripped in some situations.  You are right though, that is still 400/600 more than some people are wanting for the their D200's.  Still. . .


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## elemental (Jan 8, 2009)

ANDS! said:


> People are dropping them for 1100 gripped in some situations.  You are right though, that is still 400/600 more than some people are wanting for the their D200's.  Still. . .



$400-600 is a lot of glass, or, in my case, a lot of money I don't have. D300s are lovely, but I can't afford one, and if I really stretched for it, I would have to compromise glass. The D200 fits my budget, offers the functionality I want, and is an excellent tool. Most importantly, it lets me invest in Nikon.


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## JerryPH (Jan 8, 2009)

elemental said:


> Less Mamiya medium format and more like a pair of plastic fantastics.
> 
> Did that give it away?



Maybe... a Holga?


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## usayit (Jan 8, 2009)

> The limited upward expandability,... snip
> graduate programs ....snip
> freelance commercial work. ...snip
> K20D, I wasted it.



IMO (please don't take this badly....  just my opinion... ) 

If you have limited funds, then "buying into a system" is the least of your concern.  Rarely does a change in system equate to an immediate improvement in your photography.  There is absolutely nothing in the K100D, K20D or Pentax system that prevents a photographer breaking into the professional world.  Changing systems at this time is a total waste of money... and money is something that doesn't come easy to a student.

Limited upward expandability... (with what money?)
Graduate programs (Do they require Nikon or Canon to qualify?)
Freelance Commercial work (do they care what camera you use... just the final output?)

"K20D, I wasted it".  On all accounts, I found everything about the camera more than acceptable for professional work.  What also makes no sense is that you are looking for a D200 that is (in the digital world) an old camera...  As much as I don't agree with 100% dxomark, their measurements place the K20D at par to the D200 in most categories and the K20D beat it in the ISO numbers.  

Common!  If you are going to loose out financially in a system change (it almost always is) you might as well follow the advice of others here and go with something much more later... the D300 or D700.  As with anything in the digital world, newer sensor and electronics is almost always better newer.... 

As for pentax's lack of a "professional" camera, a member here Benjikan is a very well known, respected, and accomplished fashion photographer.  He shoots almost exclusively with K10Ds (probably K20D by now).  

Benjamin Kanarek Photographer ftvstudio.com featured member

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/members/benjikan.html

Once you make it as a professional and start making a living, then it is the time to be picky and jump systems as much as you want.   It is your luxury.... 


btw... we've had "professional" and 'prosumer" labeling discussions here before.... totally dumb marketing..  Don't fall for it.    Any camera that fits your needs as a professional photographer is a professional camera.


and no... I am not putting Pentax high on a pedestal ... I shoot Canon and Leica.


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## digitaldetours (Jan 8, 2009)

The D200 is on my wish list.  I won't be seeing it for a while though.  I should possibly figure out my 60 first though   Good luck on your new relationship with Nikon, I doubt you'll regret it.


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## JIP (Jan 8, 2009)

usayit said:


> IMO (please don't take this badly.... just my opinion... )
> 
> If you have limited funds, then "buying into a system" is the least of your concern. Rarely does a change in system equate to an immediate improvement in your photography. There is absolutely nothing in the K100D, K20D or Pentax system that prevents a photographer breaking into the professional world. Changing systems at this time is a total waste of money... and money is something that doesn't come easy to a student.
> 
> ...


 
Bringing up Benjikan is all well and good but you _do _realize I hope that he is PAID to do so.  I would be willing to shoot any system (yes even Sony) professionally if I was paid to do so.  I am glad to hear a former confused soul has come over to the "dark side".  The only thing I really have to say about all this is the "big 2" have stayed in he pro market through good and bad times and have been innovating all the time.  The "other 3" are either Jonny come latelys or are in and out of the market depending on the whims of current buying trends.


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## usayit (Jan 8, 2009)

JIP said:


> Bringing up Benjikan is all well and good but you _do _realize I hope that he is PAID to do so.  I would be willing to shoot any system (yes even Sony) professionally if I was paid to do so



Yes... he is paid... also was endorsed by Canon at some point.

BUT (that is besides my point)

There is no reason a very highly talented and experienced professional with a entry-level camera can produce better results than any of us that shoot with professional camera bodies.  Furthermore, it simply points out that the K10D and K20D can be used in a professional manner and not just fall apart.  No professional photographer.. I mean NO professional photographer would risk an assignment on equipment that is not up to the task nor meets their needs.

If it was between you and your Sony endorsed Sony DSLR given to you for free and completing a project for a paying customer, I bet you money that you would dump that Sony so quick for a Nikon to finish the job. 

When a non-professional comes up to me and says "I need to switch systems because I need a professional camera", I usually just nod and give them whatever they want for the sale... knowing very well it is almost always money wasted.

When a professional comes up to me and says "I need to switch systems... the camera doesn't do A, B, C, and Fails with D, E ,F...", I usually will say.. wow.. it really doesn't meet your needs. Letsee what we can do.  Money also spent BUT at least it is to further the photographer's ability to make money (compete) and meet goals.  (If they are lucky... their company pays the bill).  It is money invested.


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## elemental (Jan 9, 2009)

usayit said:


> IMO (please don't take this badly....  just my opinion... )
> 
> If you have limited funds, then "buying into a system" is the least of your concern.  Rarely does a change in system equate to an immediate improvement in your photography.  There is absolutely nothing in the K100D, K20D or Pentax system that prevents a photographer breaking into the professional world.  Changing systems at this time is a total waste of money... and money is something that doesn't come easy to a student.
> 
> ...



I am not going to graduate school for photography, but I do plan on having the money once I graduate to make camera bodies that cost more than $900 realistic.

To be honest, I am less than thrilled with my equipment as is. I despise my zooms (the only lenses I like are my SMC M 50mm f/2s), and the K100D body is not exactly a joy to use for an advanced amateur. It's a great and capable camera, it just is irritating to use. I was thinking about selling my gear for a used K10D (which would really just be an indulgence for me, since it's less irritating to use) and some sharp half decent lenses (FA 35mm f/2 and FA 50mmn f/1.4 topped the short list). What I realized was that this constituted starting completely over, albeit within the same system. It's really not more or less expensive to do the same thing and move to another system.

I am a student, but I am not in abject poverty (and, unfortunately, my "big returns" aren't $10,000 of dividends from my trust find, but a $250 tax return). Photography is one of my passions, and I have put some money together to make this move. It's not because I "want to look pro" or because I feel pressure from the Canikon factions. I just want ot know that if I invest in lenses, the company will still be making cameras for me to put them on in twenty years. When I finish school and take a job, I'd like to be able to buy a "luxury" camera like a D700, not because I'll need it (at least, probably not), but because I'd like one. I'd like to entertain the possibility of owning some top-end cameras in my future. Pentax has shown nothing but contempt for the top of the market, and isn't even investing in technologies like full frame that are drastically altering the landscape at the top.

I know "pros" shoot Pentax. It just really doesn't make that much difference to me. To be honest, I think the "pro worship" in photography is ridiculous. There are many hobbyist photographers on this site who produce better work in their spare time than some photographers who make a living from photography. I want to invest in lenses that I believe will still be relevant to me in ten years, and Pentax doesn't fill me with confidence.

To put it succinctly, I don't trust Pentax enough to invest in their system. I've watched them drop the ball too many times.


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## Mike_E (Jan 9, 2009)

You'll like the D200.  Look into getting some Non-AI primes and do the AI-ing yourself.  With a little patience you can get some great glass for a lot less.  (you'll probably want a Katz-eye focusing screen but that's a different story)

I check pawn shops quite often and find Old Nikon glass a lot.  My last find was a Nikon 24mm NC for $10.  Really. I found a 28mm f/2.8 for $30, a 135mm f/2.8 for $15.  (I'm still looking for a 50mm f/1.2 that's 'a deal'  )

Kiron made some really nice glass too if you happen to run across any.  If you find a 105mm, grab it.  The 28-105mm is a nice one too.  I'm still wondering why I gave that one to my sister-in-law.  :/

You Do want to get a Nikon 18-70mm AF-S!  Of course the -200mm f/2.8 Nikons are great but you could get a 180mm f/2.8 and an older 300mm f/2.8 and a new pair of shoes and be happier in all likelyhood.  

Enjoy!  

BTW and old 35mm film camera and some slow B&W might just be worth a try.  Do a search on the subject.


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## usayit (Jan 13, 2009)

elemental said:


> To be honest, I am less than thrilled with my equipment as is.
> .. snip ..
> I know "pros" shoot Pentax. It just really doesn't make that much difference to me. To be honest, I think the "pro worship" in photography is ridiculous



This post is drastically different from the one starting this thread.  One kinda states that you are happy with Pentax but just want a Pro-body.  This one admits that you are just plain not happy with the Pentax system.  

If you are an unhappy camper, then yes..   Just make sure your are burning your cash on something that you'll enjoy... not a bridge gap to yet another system.


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## JerryPH (Jan 13, 2009)

I hope you realize that though they are higher, you will run into some serious barriers with the D200 soon enough.  This coming from someone that owns a D200.  

The D200 is a good camera but in about 6 months you are going to be comparing it to something made within the last year and wishing you had waited and saved a little more for something more recent.


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## Tolyk (Jan 13, 2009)

Pentax would be stupid to create a full frame sensor now. They've optimized all their new lenses (even their pro ones) for digital cropped bodies. If they suddenly switched to full-frame, they'd piss off all their customers. There is nothing wrong with a cropped sensor, especially depending on what type of photography you do. Great for wildlife! Landscape? Buy a 12-24 or something similar, not that hard to get around the wide-angle issues anymore. You'll have the exact same problems with a D200, just with the ability to upgrade down the road to what you're calling a pro camera. I'm assuming you mean full-frame. Beyond the better low-light performance a bigger sensor offers, there isn't anything a D700 gives over a D300 in terms of functionality or "pro-ness". The K20d meets all my standards for being a pro-worthy body, weather sealing being at the top of that list, and it's got the best damn weather sealing available. I also much prefer in-camera stabilization, as when the technology improves, I replace one camera body, not all the lenses that suddenly have new versions (read Nikkor's 70-200 VR II).

As for the Pentax's medium format digital, it disappeared because they had an expected market value for it, to compete with Blads and other digial MF. What they didn't predict was the cost of their sensors suddenly tripling in price. I've spoken with Pentax, the project isn't gone, it's just on the back burner until they can find a reasonably priced sensor. And what's MF got to do with upgradability for your SLR? Not like the same lenses would fit on the thing.

If you want to switch to Nikon, go right ahead. You needn't bash Pentax's performance to do so. If you're unhappy with your camera, that's a personal choice and it affects your photography. Get a camera you're happy with, you'll shoot more. But saying Pentax isn't pro enough for you... well, that's just kind of silly.


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## Mike_E (Jan 13, 2009)

Go ahead and get it out of your system and get an RB67 Pro Sd, one of these..  Sekonic L-358 FLASH MASTER , and a good scanner.

Get a 50mm C, a 90mm C and a 150mm C lens to go with the RB, four or five backs -including a 6x4.5 and you'll be good to go.


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## elemental (Jan 14, 2009)

usayit said:


> This post is drastically different from the one starting this thread.  One kinda states that you are happy with Pentax but just want a Pro-body.  This one admits that you are just plain not happy with the Pentax system.
> 
> If you are an unhappy camper, then yes..   Just make sure your are burning your cash on something that you'll enjoy... not a bridge gap to yet another system.



No it isn't. I feel like I've outgrown my K100D, just like I would about a D40 or a Rebel XTi or an A100. Same with my current glass. If I owned a K20D and all of the Limited primes, I could be "plain not happy with the Pentax system." I am "plain not happy" with what's in my bag right now, and planning on upgrading regardless, whether to Pentax, Nikon, or Mamiya (not actually a serious option, although the Pentax 645s are an awesome deal these days).

I am using this juncture (when I'll be spending money anyway- even if I bought a K20D, I'd be ditching all of my glass) to consider my options. Replacing all of my gear with Pentax wouldn't be any cheaper than replacing all of it with Nikon stuff if I'm replacing all of it. As much as I'd like to keep the K100D as a backup body, I don't think I can justify keeping it from a value standpoint regardless.

And as for the medium format, I wasn't planning on "upgrading" to that. It was just another example of Pentax's ball-dropping with professional equipment, which makes me nervous.


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## shivaswrath (Jan 14, 2009)

elemental said:


> $400-600 is a lot of glass, or, in my case, a lot of money I don't have. D300s are lovely, but I can't afford one, and if I really stretched for it, I would have to compromise glass. The D200 fits my budget, offers the functionality I want, and is an excellent tool. Most importantly, it lets me invest in Nikon.



why not swing a new D90 - better ISO range, "newer" matrixing, and excellent value when compared to a used D200. . .or am I missing something, and you need the mag body, seals, etc?


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## elemental (Jan 14, 2009)

shivaswrath said:


> why not swing a new D90 - better ISO range, "newer" matrixing, and excellent value when compared to a used D200. . .or am I missing something, and you need the mag body, seals, etc?



Because the $400 difference is more than I can swing. I would like a D90, but it's a lot more money. The build features of the D200 are an added plus, but not something I am choosing over the D90's better image quality. They just aren't in the same price category.


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## Johnboy2978 (Jan 14, 2009)

This thread sounds a bit like someone who has recently decided that they are going to drop of out the "Crips" to join the "Bloods".  It's interesting how emotional people are about protecting the image of "their" brand.  It's your money, do what you want.  I am interested in why you felt the need to advertise the fact though from a psychological stand point.  My guess is that you needed the validation of a crowd who would justify the decision to move to one of the big Two.  I'm a proud owner of a k10d, still if money wasn't an object, I'd also have a D3, simply because of the way it handles high ISO.  That is really the only shortcoming of Pentax as I see it.  I can still take crappy pictures w/ a D3 though   How limited can you really be with any DSLR, and how advanced can you be that you outgrow a DSLR body?  Today, they are pretty much equal to a certain extent.  Pentax has some incredible glass like the 77mm Limited I recently acquired, and coupled with the k10d, I could produce some stunning images.  The images wouldn't be any better though if Pentax suddenly came out w/ a Digital MF, and that knowledge wouldn't change my opinion of them.


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## elemental (Jan 15, 2009)

Johnboy2978 said:


> I am interested in why you felt the need to advertise the fact though from a psychological stand point. My guess is that you needed the validation of a crowd who would justify the decision to move to one of the big Two.



No, I intentionally waited to post anything here until I'd made the decision. Notice how there isn't really a question in the original post. I don't enjoy "What camera should I buy?" threads, and I didn't want to start one. I did my own research and arrived at a conclusion. Since this is a place where advanced amateurs discuss photography, I thought it might make an interesting conversation starter. I was curious about how people react, but also wanted to share my thoughts as an embattled Pentax user (if I had a dollar for every time I added Pentax to a "Nikon or Canon?" thread. . . ).

Clearly, if I wanted verification, this was the wrong route. Look at all the rousing support I've gotten.


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## hintheman (Jan 15, 2009)

I think it is a gutsy move.  I moved up from *Pentax K100D* to K10D and now *Pentax K20D*.  In the process of going from K10D to K20D, I want to explore two systems with Pentax K10D and *Nikon D90*.  

After some thought, I can't justify two system and hence I abandon Nikon D90 and went for the upgrade from K10D to K20D.  If I were you, I will try out Nikon D90 as I find it well suited for amateur needs plus more down the road with good lens when you can afford them.   I am not mistaken, D90 shares the same sensor like D300 and for that, the price is actually relatively cheap to get -- the best in the latest with some compromise.  

I think the D200 may be a better suited camera for you in looking into short-term time frame but it will plague you with peer pressures in upgrading from older camera to something better down the line.  If you think D200 is the cheap way to get into Nikon, think twice.  When you spend whatever amount of money, be it smaller like the investment in D200, or something more substantial as in D90 or event the best in asp-c with D300, you have to see both the optical and the emotional aspect in justifying the cost.  Getting something cheap can be expensive if you find yourself selling it in 12 months.   In that regard, you may find yourself just as happy with D40 if you think switching system with a FF camera is important to you.  

I see your investment in *Pentax K100D* with combo kit quite expensive.  You could have swapped your K100D with K10D by selling your K100D body only for $250 and get your K10D used for $375.00.  An upgrade fee of $125.00 is right on the budget.   And to further get a better lens, you can sell your kit's combo and move up from there with prime lens.   Swapping between systems is expensive exercise and there is always the caveat that you miss certain thing in a system.

And considering that you are a student, I truly hope the D200 can meet your demands on a budget and that you can find lens that are cheaper for a budget as in M42 lens and some older Nikon good glasses.  

I am serious amateur who are happy with Pentax but there are times that I wish Pentax can improve quickly and decisively to catch up with Nikon and Canon such as AF system and noise control.  *But lacking FF is NOT the reason that I think of D90 or Canon 50D.*  It is the inadequate development of AF from K10D to K20D that have me doubt what Pentax is thinking.  Whatever system you are in, there are bound to be strength and weaknesses that one has to have some faith and compromise the weaknesses for its strengths.

The Pentax system in *K100D/K10D/K20D* surpass my need as an amateur and I don't see your reasoning that it can't meet your demands.   In all seriousness,  you can't expect changing brand will make you a better or professional photographer up a notch.   And it is dead wrong to believe that changing brand will save you money in the hobby.  If you have not gotten any money out of your hobby, don't count on it that you can someday make big money to justify your current purchase.  In other words, please consider not to pay for what you have not earned yet.   Perhaps I am conservative thinking and I try to enjoy my current moments not thinking too far ahead, I find it quite odd a reason to switch brand based on professional status on FF camera availability.


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## benjikan (Jan 25, 2009)

JIP said:


> Bringing up Benjikan is all well and good but you _do _realize I hope that he is PAID to do so.  I would be willing to shoot any system (yes even Sony) professionally if I was paid to do so.  I am glad to hear a former confused soul has come over to the "dark side".  The only thing I really have to say about all this is the "big 2" have stayed in he pro market through good and bad times and have been innovating all the time.  The "other 3" are either Jonny come latelys or are in and out of the market depending on the whims of current buying trends.



I have NEVER been paid by Pentax to use their gear.  I was given gear by Pentax, but that is normal for those being sponsored by a manufacturer.  I am no longer sponsored by Pentax and am still using my 3xK10D's and 3xK20D's.  I really love Pentax glass and in camera shake reduction.  I will stay with Pentax for the time being.


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## HoosierJoe (Jan 25, 2009)

mrodgers said:


> I want to know how to get big tax returns.


Vote for Obama and don't be self employed.


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