# I Suck...How to Find Someone to Second Shoot For?



## D-B-J (Sep 7, 2014)

I'm at an event, and I feel like every photo I take looks like crap. I feel like a newb who doesn't know how to photograph. Portraits, pets, landscapes, I can do that. Events, I cannot... How do I find someone to shoot with? To learn from? I emailed two local wedding photog's and got nothing... I need to learn! But have nobody to learn from. And it's stressing me out. Thoughts?

Jake 


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## astroNikon (Sep 7, 2014)

check Facebook for your area.  There are many professional facebook groups out there. 
Also Meetup.com  - pros have events to have multiple shooters at weddings, events, etc.  or classes on how to learn.


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## D-B-J (Sep 7, 2014)

astroNikon said:


> check Facebook for your area.  There are many professional facebook groups out there.
> Also Meetup.com  - pros have events to have multiple shooters at weddings, events, etc.  or classes on how to learn.



That's what I need. And I'm shooting an event at the end of the month. Let's hope I do better then! I insisted I don't do it but the client was adamant that I do... So we'll see...


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## slackercruster (Sep 7, 2014)

D-B-J said:


> I'm at an event, and I feel like every photo I take looks like crap. I feel like a newb who doesn't know how to photograph. Portraits, pets, landscapes, I can do that. Events, I cannot... How do I find someone to shoot with? To learn from? I emailed two local wedding photog's and got nothing... I need to learn! But have nobody to learn from. And it's stressing me out. Thoughts?
> 
> Jake
> 
> ...



Keep at the local photogs. Go cold call them with samples of you non crappy work. I hope you are not looking to make any $ from them? Hoards of photogs will gladly work for free to learn. 

Back in the day I worked as an assistant for a job or two. But I spent years trying to work for free and only got a couple 1 day, unpaid jobs for my trouble. I can only imagine it is worse nowadays. One photog told me he gets calls every few days for assistant jobs. This was in L.A. in the 1970s'. Successful photogs can pick the cream of the crop for free internships. If your really adamant to learn, offer to pay them for the internship. It is cheaper than going to photo school.

I'm glad I gave up all that BS. I shoot what I like nowadays and don't fool with all that craziness any more.


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## tirediron (Sep 7, 2014)

Treat it just like a job application: Knock on doors, show your portfolio (and don't expect to get paid).


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## D-B-J (Sep 7, 2014)

tirediron said:


> Treat it just like a job application: Knock on doors, show your portfolio (and don't expect to get paid).



I have no intention of getting paid. I need experience. Hell, I'll even pay them for it. 


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## The_Traveler (Sep 7, 2014)

Shooting with someone makes no sense unless they are willing to take some positive steps to help you.

The common thread ' portraits, pets, landscapes' is that you can take your time, get the lighting and redo shots.
Doing an event, you have none of those and you have to compensate with preparation.

Start  looking at scenes and decide where you need to be to get the light  right and how you would expose to compensate for what you see.
Learn how to change your aperture and EC without looking - cause in events, you have no time.
Learn to lock the camera into a stable hold with arms tucked against body.
Practice framing quickly and shooting a bit loose to make up for haste.
Review your shots to see what you are doing wrong technically.

I try not to have to change lenses.
I shoot with two bodies - a 24-70 equiv on one and 70-200 on the other and circle the space. 
I get general shots first then go back and head hunt.

Look for the shots that typify the event.
Move through the crowd like a man with a purpose.
Don't ask permission, just walk up shoot and walk away, saying thank-you.
If you need a pose or an arm moved, just ask quickly, take your pictures and do it.

*Get the picture
*You are looking for impact, faces - not perfection.
People and symbols

Example: This is a shoot I did of Dr. Terry Lakin's homecoming for a post on a political site and I wrote one for my own blog. all the pictures and the  blog post
Bad overhead lighting, relatively low ceiling, police presence and I was told not to use flash in airport, relatively unfriendly crowd (the PR person walked away from the reporter when the reporter IDed herself)


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## dannylightning (Sep 7, 2014)

ill tell you what,  i usualy take about 20-50 pics of something, at all different angles and what not.   out of the  50 pics, one or two of those just pop out at me way more than the others

basically its all about getting the proper exposure for the shot you want and getting the shot at the right angle.      if you need to put your camera on auto mode for a while  while you start working on getting the right angle and what not go for it.      i actually really like P mode on my camera,   i only need to adjust iso     when i am trying to grab some quick shots where i need to shoot and be done with it this is the mode i use.  if i have plenty of time to get the shot ill go full manual.

i also notice going in to the neutral, vivid, standard settings on my camera and adjusting the contrast, sharpness and saturation can really change how the photos look,    i leave the rest of the settings in those menus stock but i change those 3 settings in the preset color modes,  before i did that i was not happy with how my photos were coming out on this D5300,   i would imagine your nikon has the same general settings to do that.

just a few things you might want to think about trying..     and just remember you probably not going to like every shot you take  so get as many as you can and you will probably get a few that you really like.


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## D-B-J (Sep 7, 2014)

The_Traveler said:


> Shooting with someone makes no sense unless they are willing to take some positive steps to help you.
> 
> The common thread ' portraits, pets, landscapes' is that you can take your time, get the lighting and redo shots.
> Doing an event, you have none of those and you have to compensate with preparation.
> ...



And I think part of the issue is I hold myself to such a high standard that it's sometimes, or all the time, not reasonable. 


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## CameraClicker (Sep 7, 2014)

Getting the face and the expression is the important part.  Try to see the room ahead of time, or come prepared.  A dim room and no flash is difficult unless you have a body that handles high ISO well and fast glass.  You still need shutter speed because people move.


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## pixmedic (Sep 7, 2014)

D-B-J said:


> astroNikon said:
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> > check Facebook for your area.  There are many professional facebook groups out there.
> ...



if thats how it works....

what do you do when the client is adamant that you work for free?


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## The_Traveler (Sep 7, 2014)

D-B-J said:


> And I think part of the issue is I hold myself to such a high standard that it's sometimes, or all the time, not reasonable.



That is a way to justify it.
I remember that, when someone I wanted to date turned me down, I figured it was because I was so good looking and so smart that she didn't want to look bad in my company.

If you can't get good pictures in a situation that someone else can, it is not the situation's fault.
Figure out why and fix it.


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## D-B-J (Sep 7, 2014)

The_Traveler said:


> D-B-J said:
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> > And I think part of the issue is I hold myself to such a high standard that it's sometimes, or all the time, not reasonable.
> ...



Oh I know. I'm trying! 


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## D-B-J (Sep 7, 2014)

pixmedic said:


> D-B-J said:
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Tell them no? 


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## Derrel (Sep 7, 2014)

Figure out WHY you suck, and work on fixing any deficient areas through study and preparation. Maybe you need more confidence? Maybe you need more experience shooting close-in people shots? Maybe you are not using the right tools, and everything looks far away and insignificant? I dunno...event photography is a well-defined genre that has not changed appreciably in a long, long time, at least since the advent of the 35mm camera and small electronic flash.

When you say you suck, that's a pretty broad, global condemnation of your skills. It seems to me to betray a lack of confidence. I have photographed a lot of news events, sports events, and so on, and I remember what it was like to feel butterflies before an event. I know that many people are very nervous or hesitant about walking up to people and shooting photos without prior agreement, or volunteering, or consent, or are afraid to walk to the front of a room and shoot photos of a speaker or presenter for fear of being "noticed" or "in the way" or whatever. Not sure how much help can be given to help alleviate the issues suffered by a person who makes a very broad, general "I suck" kind of statement, without any additional explanation of details. So, all I can say is figure out WHY you suck, and work on the deficient areas.

I always thought of second shooting as for people who already know how to shoot a genre and are at least decent at it, not as on-the-job-training.


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## D-B-J (Sep 7, 2014)

Derrel said:


> Figure out WHY you suck, and work on fixing any deficient areas through study and preparation. Maybe you need more confidence? Maybe you need more experience shooting close-in people shots? Maybe you are not using the right tools, and everything looks far away and insignificant? I dunno...event photography is a well-defined genre that has not changed appreciably in a long, long time, at least since the advent of the 35mm camera and small electronic flash.
> 
> When you say you suck, that's a pretty broad, global condemnation of your skills. It seems to me to betray a lack of confidence. I have photographed a lot of news events, sports events, and so on, and I remember what it was like to feel butterflies before an event. I know that many people are very nervous or hesitant about walking up to people and shooting photos without prior agreement, or volunteering, or consent, or are afraid to walk to the front of a room and shoot photos of a speaker or presenter for fear of being "noticed" or "in the way" or whatever. Not sure how much help can be given to help alleviate the issues suffered by a person who makes a very broad, general "I suck" kind of statement, without any additional explanation of details. So, all I can say is figure out WHY you suck, and work on the deficient areas.
> 
> I always thought of second shooting as for people who already know how to shoot a genre and are at least decent at it, not as on-the-job-training.



You nailed it on the head. It's not a lack of skill or whatever, it's a lack of confidence. I'll post some examples later this evening so we can try and see how or what I can improve. 


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## D-B-J (Sep 7, 2014)

And with landscapes, I approach a scene already knowing how to shoot. Or how and what I need to do to get the image I want. I DONT KNOW how to do that with events, and I think that's where my nerves come in. I can shoot people well, just.. Not in events.. I vow to improve and not give up. 


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## pixmedic (Sep 7, 2014)

D-B-J said:


> pixmedic said:
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apparently not, if your above statement is to be believed.


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## D-B-J (Sep 7, 2014)

pixmedic said:


> D-B-J said:
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It's a paid event. I think the big difference is that then I'll have an assistant with an off camera flash setup in an umbrella. That way I'll have a lot more control over the light. 


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## runnah (Sep 7, 2014)

Dude events suck. I've done many PR cut a ribbon, shake hands, dig a hole type if events and I can give you some wisdom.

1. Nothing you get from an event is going to be fine art. 

2. Most all elements are out if you control. You don't get to decide where and when it's going to happen, you just have to make it happen.

3. If it's your job to be there act like it. When I have to shoot a PR event I turn into mr drill Sargent and start bossing people around. You have to take control and tell the "subjects" where to be and how to pose. Be loud and get heard.

I am sure I could expulse more wisdom but I am tired.


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## D-B-J (Sep 7, 2014)

runnah said:


> Dude events suck. I've done many PR cut a ribbon, shake hands, dig a hole type if events and I can give you some wisdom.
> 
> 1. Nothing you get from an event is going to be fine art.
> 
> ...




And I'm such a soft-spoken non bossy kind of person.  That's the toughest aspect for me.  All in time, right?


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## runnah (Sep 7, 2014)

D-B-J said:


> And I'm such a soft-spoken non bossy kind of person.  That's the toughest aspect for me.  All in time, right?



If you are being paid it's your job to direct people where you want them. I've bossed around the president of my company and the state senator so I could get a decent photo. Gotta do what you gotta do. The people you are taking photis of for events don't know what to do so they need your direction.


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## D-B-J (Sep 7, 2014)

runnah said:


> D-B-J said:
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> > And I'm such a soft-spoken non bossy kind of person.  That's the toughest aspect for me.  All in time, right?
> ...




Which makes perfect sense.  Maybe I just need to be more confident about this whole event-dealio.  

Jake


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## runnah (Sep 7, 2014)

D-B-J said:


> Which makes perfect sense.  Maybe I just need to be more confident about this whole event-dealio.  Jake



Yup and learning what to shot and not is important. More often than not I will end up using one photo from an event and trashing the rest. With thus knowledge I approach events with the mindset of getting 3-4 really good keepers and that's it.

99% of the keeper shots at events have been:
People talking at podiums
People cutting ribbons/signing/breaking ground
Group shots


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## Light Guru (Sep 7, 2014)

pixmedic said:


> what do you do when the client is adamant that you work for free?



Then that person would no longer be a client of mine.


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## Light Guru (Sep 7, 2014)

DBJ I'm just going to throw this out there. I it's perfectly fine if you don't photograph events. You don't have to be a great photographer at all types of photography. 

Let me ask this. Do you enjoy photographing events? How well you do at photographing them aside, do you enjoy photographing events?

I have learned that I don't enjoy photographing people. I have done some decent people photography, but I stopped doing it because I didn't enjoy it.  I put my photo photographic efforts mainly into landscapes because that's why I enjoy. 

If you don't enjoy photographing events then again there is nothing wrong with turning those jobs down.


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## D-B-J (Sep 7, 2014)

Light Guru said:


> DBJ I'm just going to throw this out there. I it's perfectly fine if you don't photograph events. You don't have to be a great photographer at all types of photography.
> 
> Let me ask this. Do you enjoy photographing events? How well you do at photographing them aside, do you enjoy photographing events?
> 
> ...



I'm not sure yet. I don't enjoy them, but I think part of that is because I'm not confident enough yet. 


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## TreeofLifeStairs (Sep 7, 2014)

Do you mind me asking what the event is?


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## D-B-J (Sep 8, 2014)

TreeofLifeStairs said:


> Do you mind me asking what the event is?



It was a beauty brunch.


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## tirediron (Sep 8, 2014)

D-B-J said:


> runnah said:
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Pre-zact-ickly!

It doesn't matter how nervous you are, as long as you don't show it; in the words of that old deoderant commercial, "Never let them see you sweat!".  Remember that for the most part, people are like sheep (except not as useful).  They are quite willing to be told what to do and herded this way and that.  You just need to crack the whip!


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## astroNikon (Sep 8, 2014)

D-B-J said:


> TreeofLifeStairs said:
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> > Do you mind me asking what the event is?
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Maybe you need to fit in more

spend more time on your makeup and pick out a cute flower sun dress next time.

or maybe just keep practicing, I don't think we want to see *those* pictures.


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## D-B-J (Sep 8, 2014)

astroNikon said:


> D-B-J said:
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I hate to inform you but I'm straight as an arrow, albeit probably a touch metro. I have no interest in putting on makeup or anything of that sort.


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## The_Traveler (Sep 8, 2014)

runnah said:


> Dude events suck. I've done many PR cut a ribbon, shake hands, dig a hole type if events and I can give you some wisdom.
> 
> 1. *Nothing you get from an event is going to be fine art*.
> 
> 2. Most all elements are out if you control. You don't get to decide where and when it's going to happen, you just have to make it happen.



This line in bold is probably true but shooting events where virtually everything is out of your control is terrific experience and practice for real shooting when instants are all you have.
This picture below was shot from a moving train.  
I got it because I was ready and had been prepared for shooting.
No instant for setting new shutter speed or f stop or thinking.
That's the skills that event shooting will give you.


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## D-B-J (Sep 8, 2014)

The_Traveler said:


> runnah said:
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> > Dude events suck. I've done many PR cut a ribbon, shake hands, dig a hole type if events and I can give you some wisdom.
> ...



Those are the skills I need.


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## runnah (Sep 8, 2014)

The_Traveler said:


> runnah said:
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> > Dude events suck. I've done many PR cut a ribbon, shake hands, dig a hole type if events and I can give you some wisdom.
> ...



Very true. Events do teach you to be ready for anything.


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## imagemaker46 (Sep 9, 2014)

Isn't everything that is shot an event?  I've been to a lot of different types of events.


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