# I want my own paper, but the photo club's chemistry is old!



## Compaq (Sep 7, 2012)

Should I just get my own chemistry along with some paper? I'm not experienced enough to know how much old chemistry will affect my prints. I found some bottles of Rodinal in the closet in the darkroom, and I've used that (and not the already mixed developer in the bottles (ooold)). I just imagine that having new paper is more important than having new chemicals. Old paper give flat prints, I like contrast in my bw prints. 

Also, I've been using water as stop bath. Just sink water. Water will stop the development slower than a dedicated stop bath, and so it's not as easy to get the results I want. If I add some vinegar or citric acid or some other form of inexpensive, household acid, that should quicken the process, yes?


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## ann (Sep 7, 2012)

I would as old chemistry isn't going to be very helpful with the learning process.

ALso, stopbath is cheap, you could use citric acid, some do, but again stop bath is very cheap and you don't need a lot. If you use one with an indicator it will change color to show you it is no longer useful.

Rodinal is for film and it does have a long shelve life, old paper may or may not be Ok . It all depends on which paper and how it has been stored.
Old paper tends to fog with age which certainly effects highlights.

YOu should be controling your contrast with developers, and of course with printing filters, or  use graded papers.


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## Compaq (Sep 7, 2012)

I've only used Rodinal for developing film. Is there a "better" option? I suppose this boils down to personal taste, though.


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## ann (Sep 7, 2012)

Rodinal is a classic film developer and better is a personal taste and I would suggest sticking with one developer until you have more experience and understanding of what your doing. Moving from one to another can create confusion .


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## unpopular (Sep 7, 2012)

Rodinal is awesome, but one problem I have with it is the high acutance tends to make for a grainy appearance towered the mid-shadows. You can experiment with developing first in rodinal and then switching to something like microdol-x for the shadows. Depending on when you slit the developer will affect what tonal areas will have high acutance and what areas will have smoother tonality.


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## amolitor (Sep 7, 2012)

Using water for stop will just use up the fixer more quickly. citric acid is in fact what stop bath is.

Using old stop bath should be fine. Old fixer is less fine, but either it fixes the prints or it doesn't. Old developer is lousy.

Get new paper developer and new paper. Use the old stop. Think about new fixer. All this stuff is cheap, $30 to bhphoto.com will hook you up fully, I think. Uh, except for paper, which is infinitely expensive, which sucks. But you gotta do it.


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## Paul Ron (Sep 7, 2012)

Compaq said:


> Should I just get my own chemistry along with some paper? I'm not experienced enough to know how much old chemistry will affect my prints. I found some bottles of Rodinal in the closet in the darkroom, and I've used that (and not the already mixed developer in the bottles (ooold)). I just imagine that having new paper is more important than having new chemicals. Old paper give flat prints, I like contrast in my bw prints.
> 
> Also, I've been using water as stop bath. Just sink water. Water will stop the development slower than a dedicated stop bath, and so it's not as easy to get the results I want. If I add some vinegar or citric acid or some other form of inexpensive, household acid, that should quicken the process, yes?



By "OLD" are you refering to "old school" or "exhausted" chemiclas?

For prints Dectol is the most popular and will work on any type of paper, RC Fiber, VC... etc. 

Stop bath can be any mild acid but indicator stop is so cheap and uses such a small amount to make a working solution it is worth your while to purchase it yourself n add it to your school invantory.

BTW most schools mix in large batches, 25 gallonsaat a time and also use replenisher. Are you sugesting the large batch mix you see is old?.. does it have a date when it was mixed?


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## unpopular (Sep 8, 2012)

amolitor said:


> citric acid is in fact what stop bath is.



Stop works by increasing the pH of the developer. Developers cannot work in acetic conditions. Any acid will work, but usually it's acetic acid - which is just vinegar. Everyday distilled white vinegar though does work fine. Citric acid is a developer itself, so it may stop slower than acetic acid - though probably not.

Ordinary water won't actually stop development, it just dilutes it down - which is fine. However, if you have hard water it may not be as effective. I personally wouldn't trust it, but I'm kind of anal about chemistry. If you're doing zone system, I'd really recommend an acid stop, personally.


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## unpopular (Sep 8, 2012)

BTW: if you want to save money, most of these chemicals are really easy to find retail without any regulatory problems. Kodak publishes the quantities of each component in their MSDS.

Let me know if you need any specific recipes. I have a few books, and all the MSDS in my chemistry set.


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## Compaq (Sep 8, 2012)

unpopular said:


> amolitor said:
> 
> 
> > citric acid is in fact what stop bath is.
> ...




I was under the impression that the developer is a basic solution, and the fix being an acidic solution. In ionic form, silver exists as +1 cations. So silver is reduced to metallic silver. Aren't acids oxidizing: high electron affinity? A lewis acid accepts electron pairs, whilst a lewis base doneate electron pairs. This how I've pictured the process (simplified, of course). The acidic fix neutralizes the basic developer.

I'm not at a stage where I feel a need of mixing chemicals myself. Maybe in the future, when I'm more familiarized with the process  Thanks for offering help, though!
Norway is a great place for soft water.


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## Paul Ron (Sep 8, 2012)

Compaq said:


> unpopular said:
> 
> 
> > amolitor said:
> ...




Beautiful women. soft water and hard men.


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