# How to stop being discouraged from lack of feedback?



## nerwin (Apr 27, 2017)

Today we are so incredibly fortunate to be able to share our work with the entire world with a press of a button, while it's a blessing, its a curse.

We are so use to people these days providing some sort of feedback on your work and we enjoy getting that feedback, it makes us feel good.

What happens when we don't get feedback? We feel discouraged and makes you think that you are not good enough.

There are times when I get a lot of feedback on my images in forms such as favorites, likes, comments (negative or positive) and that really encourages me to keep going but there are occasions when I get very little if not no feedback on my work and it makes me think, well maybe this photo just sucks and I start to feel discouraged and contemplate deleting the photo.

Social media is a very odd thing. You see all these photographers on Facebook, Flickr, Instagram, etc and they have thousands and thousands of followers and get an alarming amount of feedback but yet their photos are mostly mediocre and processed using a one click VSCO filter, every single photo looks and feels exactly the same.

Is that what photography is? Just to get views and popular on the internet? I'm seeing this more and more everyday. I know many photographers who's work is outstanding, heck a few I know have photos on display in popular art museums and yet, they get next to no feedback when they share their work on social media. Why is that?

I'm unfortunately falling down this trap, I'm starting to post my photos certain times of the day using certain tags, processing them a certain way to get the maximum popularity just so I get that little tiny bit of feedback that makes me feel good but even then, its not a guarantee your going to receive that feedback your looking for. When you do all this work and get little or no feedback, it can really upset you and bring you down.

What can we do keep ourselves encouraged when we don't get feedback on our work? How do you keep yourself encouraged?

One might say to not post your work on the internet, while I understand that, I certainly don't want to end up like Vivian Maier! I like to share my work with the world but how can I get the thought out of my head that I NEED some kind of visual or verbal feedback on my photos to keep going?


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## jsecordphoto (Apr 27, 2017)

Shoot what's personally fulfilling and you won't care what kind of feedback you get. I love when a photo is well received, but the general public will also fawn over terrible HDR and VSCO shots, so I don't care if a photo I love doesn't get much attention. 

If you want validation on social media, start doing composite moon and Milky Way photos, those always get thousands of likes despite being utter garbage


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## nerwin (Apr 27, 2017)

Your absolutely right, I should be taking pictures for myself and not for others or to follow a certain trend. 

I'm honestly starting to hate Instagram, its like so fake. I hate it when people follow you and if you don't follow them right back, they unfollow you. I hate that crap! I want people to follow me who WANT to follow me.


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## FotosbyMike (Apr 27, 2017)

I would have to agree with the above, shot what you like and enjoy. Find other photographs who inspire your work and work on meeting or exceeding their work. 

Many chefs cook because they love it not because every guest stop by the kitchen on their way out and gives them a comment or feedback. 

One of the biggest issues with social media is people are not 100% honest, because someones feels might get hurt or if you don't conform to main stream you are "bad", there are tons of photos on there that suck.

Keep your head up and keep learning and enjoy what you are doing.


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## astroNikon (Apr 27, 2017)

Most of the Social Media photos are so bad I can't even think of how to make it so bad.
People support the selfies of everyone as "beautiful" etc etc no matter how bad the image looks.

It's not a positive critique, but a positive reinforcement of that person themselves, not of the photo itself.


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## table1349 (Apr 27, 2017)

Sounds as if you are a person that suffers from approval addiction.   You can live for others and try to do what pleases the crowd at any given moment, keeping in mind that the crowd mentality is very fickle and want to change, or you can live for yourself and purse what pleases you.  

Perhaps it is time to step back from all of this social media a bit.  It is neither social in the true sense of the word nor is it a form of media with much true value in it's mass form.  

_"There are so many different walks of life, so many different personalities in the world. And no longer do you have to be a chameleon and try and adapt to that environment - you can truly be yourself." _
Hope Solo


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## smoke665 (Apr 27, 2017)

Compliments are like a drug, they make you feel good. The more you get the more you want. Social media is full of those "pat you on the back" kind of places. Couple of years ago I was on a social media site for photography, I found out quick that the only comment wanted were complimentary. Any attempt at valid criticism was sure to make the pack turn on you.  Personally I'd much rather have valid critique on an image so I can grow and learn, that way I know when I do receive a compliment, that it's valid and not a shallow remark.


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## MSnowy (Apr 27, 2017)

Shoot for you not to impress others. Likes and comments can be deceiving. If you were around this site 5 0r 6 years ago you would have gotten a lot better critique on your photos. I've noticed in the past year that people on here will like just about any photo that's posted. If you don't get likes or comment on here it's really the silent way of people saying the photo is either not interesting or not that good. So the only one that needs to like your photos is you.


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## ClickAddict (Apr 27, 2017)

Keep in mind, based on Facebook's algorithms,  every time you post a photo, it only goes out to a % of people who liked your photography page.  If you are using a personal page, the same applies to your friends.  So when you look back at your "likes" per photo....  it's not I got 20 likes of my 50 friends.  It might be I got 20 out of 30 that saw it.  And even on the newsfeeds of people who get it posted, if they follow too many people they may not have a chance to scroll and see everything anyway.

(People who turn notifications on/off or set the follow override these algorithms of course, but in general you will not hit %100 of your "liked" list with each photo.)


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## nerwin (Apr 27, 2017)

smoke665 said:


> Compliments are like a drug, they make you feel good. The more you get the more you want. Social media is full of those "pat you on the back" kind of places. Couple of years ago I was on a social media site for photography, I found out quick that the only comment wanted were complimentary. Any attempt at valid criticism was sure to make the pack turn on you.  Personally I'd much rather have valid critique on an image so I can grow and learn, that way I know when I do receive a compliment, that it's valid and not a shallow remark.



I like those comments that give me valid feedback instead of "nice picture" or "beautiful photo" as its usually just an attempt to get you to look at their photos or to follow them. I've done this myself as well and it feels stupid. 

Sure I'll click like or favorite on photos that I like but if there is a photo that really draws me or peaks my interest, I'll leave a good comment and explain why I like it or what I think it could make it better.


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## ClickAddict (Apr 27, 2017)

And I agree with everyone else.... it should not matter as long as YOU like what you're shooting and are always trying to improve.


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## nerwin (Apr 27, 2017)

ClickAddict said:


> Keep in mind, based on Facebook's algorithms,  every time you post a photo, it only goes out to a % of people who liked your photography page.  If you are using a personal page, the same applies to your friends.  So when you look back at your "likes" per photo....  it's not I got 20 likes of my 50 friends.  It might be I got 20 out of 30 that saw it.  And even on the newsfeeds of people who get it posted, if they follow too many people they may not have a chance to scroll and see everything anyway.
> 
> (People who turn notifications on/off or set the follow override these algorithms of course, but in general you will not hit %100 of your "liked" list with each photo.)



I make my mom share my photos, since she has like a thousand friends hehe (don't laugh). But I only share photos once in a while on Facebook as I'm not a big FB fan, its usually as a means for communication with family.


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## ClickAddict (Apr 27, 2017)

To me it's a marketing tool.  And I wont laugh at getting your mom to post.  It makes sense. When I shoot for trade with models, a big factor in selection process is ... do they have the look I'm aiming for and next... how many friends do they have.  I'm older (45).  My generation typically has fewer friends than my son's generation.  So when I shoot people in their 20s, I'll get like 20-30 likes maybe on my photo.  But that same photo on their timeline...the feedback dwarfs mine.  (All of which I then invite to follow/share my page  and even have a referral payback as an incentive)


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## MSnowy (Apr 27, 2017)

One thing I like to suggest on here is to go to the website of the people your getting likes and comments from. This will give you and idea of their photography skill and knowledge.


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## bluewanders (Apr 27, 2017)

I've been very slow joining the social media craze.  I don't have an active instagram, twitter etc.  I only just recently decided to start facebooking my photographic work.  Not because I want likes or anything like that, but because I want people in my area to see what I'm doing and see those instances when my path intersects with people they know.  I do a lot of street photography and I volunteer at the local colleges pretty often for their events.  Since I'm not a pro photographer, rather a hobbyist who pays for his gear and photo trips through some photography work driven almost entirely by word of mouth, these events that I volunteer at drive in a lot of new business.  Getting onto facebook has allowed everyone to tag the people they know in those photos.  The other thing it does is show me metrics I've been studying on my own.  I can see what types of photos seem to resonate with my community more solidly through likes and engagement versus just which prints they choose to purchase for themselves a la carte. But I have to take that information with a grain a salt, because it can be skewed by who is in the photo itself and how popular they are.

When I want feedback on my work... I don't go to the uneducated.  Whether they like a photo or not is definitely valid, but... most of the time they can't tell you what it is they like about it or why.  In general they will lack the communication skills and the specialized contextual knowledge/language to enrich your photography in any meaningful way through articulate discussion.  That's not a bad thing, we are a species of specialists.  I submit work to contests and my peers when I want someone to tell me something about what I'm doing.  In that case, I usually also add my thought process and creative process as part of the post.  "I wanted my background to look like this so I did this, I wanted this sort of mood so I angled my light this way... I was in this type of room and fighting with this condition so I placed my lights here and used adjusted my camera settings" That way... my peers can think about what they would have done under similar circumstances and maybe even suggest a solution that didn't occur to me because I'm entirely self taught.

Since that's what I am looking for when I post among peers, that's also what I choose to provide.  I don't love/like a photo without leaving a comment about something in the photo that drove me to press that button.  "This is the thing or things I like the most in this photo" or "These are the things that resonated with me the least in this photo."  

You'll get out of these things what you put into them, and they will reflect your intentions at you as they pay out.  If you want to make an 8 year old happy, make him a grilled cheese sandwich.  If you want to make a better grilled cheese sandwich, make one for a chef.  The way the 8 year old feels is certainly valid and he will effusively tell you how great your cooking is... but let's face it, at this point the height of his culinary exposure might be spaghetti o's and boiled hotdogs with boxed mac'n'cheese. The chef, on the other hand, can tell you what he thinks based on nuanced experience and knowledge of the subject... and while his tastes/feelings may certainly play a part in his assessment, they won't dominate it.


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## Vtec44 (Apr 27, 2017)

You're over complicating this.  Just take amazing photos.


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## nerwin (Apr 27, 2017)

Vtec44 said:


> You're over complicating this.  Just take amazing photos.



Then I'd have to buy VSCO presets...


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## Vtec44 (Apr 27, 2017)

nerwin said:


> Then I'd have to buy VSCO presets...



Hey if you think VSCO is amazing, go for it!  Don't worry about what others think but more about what you think.


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## nerwin (Apr 27, 2017)

Vtec44 said:


> nerwin said:
> 
> 
> > Then I'd have to buy VSCO presets...
> ...



I was joking, not a fan of VSCO. If I want the filmy look, I'll shoot film. hahaha  - then again, no one around here really develops it lol.


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## Vtec44 (Apr 27, 2017)

nerwin said:


> I was joking, not a fan of VSCO. If I want the filmy look, I'll shoot film. hahaha  - then again, no one around here really develops it lol.



I happen to like VSCO also, and I shoot medium format film.  It's art don't limit yourself.  Most people don't realize that VSCO isn't necessary to duplicate film, but it's a style.  Keep an open mind and you'll find yourself to be a lot more creative.  Your photos become more fun and not bland/boring.


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## otherprof (Apr 27, 2017)

nerwin said:


> Today we are so incredibly fortunate to be able to share our work with the entire world with a press of a button, while it's a blessing, its a curse.
> 
> We are so use to people these days providing some sort of feedback on your work and we enjoy getting that feedback, it makes us feel good.
> 
> ...


The Stoic philosopher, and former slave, Epictetus, once said, "Did he say those terrible things about me? I guess he didn't know my other faults or he would have mentioned those also."  Strong man!


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## chuasam (Apr 27, 2017)

Date a good photographer.
you'll have more feedback than you know what to do with.


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## zombiesniper (Apr 27, 2017)

I would answer your question at first with a question.

Why do you care about the feedback?

If it is for a business then yes you should care about customer feedback.

If it is solely for the endless supply of shepple on the internet, who give a ****? I have exactly 2 twitter followers and under 20 flicker followers and maybe 80 likes on my Facebook page. Am I an amazing photographer..no. Am I at least as good as the multitude of filter freaks on Instagram? O hell ya. The difference is I stopped trying to impress 15yr old girls when I turned 16.


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## john.margetts (Apr 27, 2017)

I get my meaningful feedback from my local artist's society - painters and sculptors don't worry about 'pin sharp' or rule of thirds or what lens you used but concentrate on how good a picture you have produced. They happily chose an out of focus picture of mine for our autumn exhibition.

Sent from my A1-840 using Tapatalk


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## Juga (Apr 27, 2017)

This forum can be very frustrating at times because it can also be very cliquey. Most of the feedback I have received on here have been of my portraits which I have learned a great deal about because of honest brutal feedback. The shots I post now are nothing super special nor do I intend for them to be masterful works of art. I share them mainly because I like them and every once in a while someone will add some solid critique...butttttt I also don't mind the comments like "nice set", "cool shots", etc. At least I can share my photos and some people enjoy them like I do.


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## Vtec44 (Apr 27, 2017)

Juga said:


> This forum can be very frustrating at times because it can also be very cliquey.



The thing about online interaction is that you have to take it with a grain of salt.  Everyone is an expert online.


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## Juga (Apr 27, 2017)

Vtec44 said:


> Juga said:
> 
> 
> > This forum can be very frustrating at times because it can also be very cliquey.
> ...



Not exactly what I meant by that comment but I couldn't agree more with what you said.


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## Derrel (Apr 27, 2017)

Instagram is MOSTLY about properly tagging posted images, and about spending a LOT of time and effort kissing ass, meaning leaving likes and comments on the pages of other like-minded like addicts and following a metric shi+-tonne of other people...not that tere's anything wrong with being a like-addict...

If you use the appropriate hastags, photos can go from 1,2,3,4,5 likes to 30,40,50,50,70, 80 likes....with ZERO added skill, it's just ther nature of the beast. With a massive following, or the right, provocative, sleazy hastags, the Likes go wayyyyy up. Amply bosoms, sugegstive clothing, boioty, and the like can draw a lot of "likes", no matter how sh___y the work is.

If one is a social media darling, like san an Emily Ratajokowski (spelling?) for example, with big, curvy t***s and a name....400,000 to 600,000 "Likes" will accrue if enough thigh or boob is hinted at...an average wanna' be local agency model will get 4,000 to 10,000 likes if she hastags with the right tags and has "a look" that people like...

I dunno...it is what it is...most people do not do social media photographic stuff for the pohotography, but for the "Likes" and the adoring worshipping of the sycophantic followers they have cultivated.

Facebook is another thing entirely.


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## tirediron (Apr 27, 2017)

Looking at this from a slightly different perspective (maybe?)...  feedback and approval are two very different things.  Feedback is very important to every artist, approval?  Not so much.  Feedback is important because it's a key component of what helps us grow.  If all we ever did shoot exactly what we liked and wanted, and never heard (or listened) to anyone, we'd never improve.  Approval on the other hand is, as has already been mentioned, a drug.  We all like approval, but it rarely helps us.


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## Derrel (Apr 27, 2017)

Shoot for yourself, or shoot for those who pay you to shoot photos for them. Nobody else matters.


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## zombiesniper (Apr 28, 2017)

Vtec44 said:


> The thing about online interaction is that you have to take it with a grain of salt. Everyone is an expert online.



Ha ha! I caught you there. I'm the court jester!


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## jake337 (Apr 28, 2017)

Just don't give a ****!






But seriously, how social media sites are ran with algorithms it matters more on how you market/network now.


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## vintagesnaps (Apr 28, 2017)

What do you think we did before the internet (much less social media)?? Probably you need to at some point learn how to evaluate your own work. Somehow somewhere along the way I knew I had talent, and knew my photos were good. I think the best feedback I got was from instructors. 

What's popular can just be a fad that will pass; doesn't mean popular is necessarily good, it may just be the novelty of it. People like something that passes by and then probably forget it two seconds later. Something that's good to me is usually somewhat memorable, at least has me looking at it for a bit not just a glance.


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## table1349 (Apr 28, 2017)

vintagesnaps said:


> What do you think we did before the internet (much less social media)?? Probably you need to at some point learn how to evaluate your own work. Somehow somewhere along the way I knew I had talent, and knew my photos were good. I think the best feedback I got was from instructors.
> 
> What's popular can just be a fad that will pass; doesn't mean popular is necessarily good, it may just be the novelty of it. People like something that passes by and then probably forget it two seconds later. Something that's good to me is usually somewhat memorable, at least has me looking at it for a bit not just a glance.


*What???.*...................*.Wait!!!*........................There was a time before where there was no internet? 
There was a time before Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, Pinterest, or Tumblr???????  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 How did the world function without the internet and social media. 

I have heard stories, on Youtube of course, where people supposedly got together and talked face to face, met up with family and friends and even sat down and ate together at the same table.  I even heard that people would meet strangers face to face and sometimes even, "Gasp" would begin dating, all with out an online survey.  I thought those stories were some cruel joke of some kind. 

Next your going to tell me that there was a yellow book that had all kinds of advertisements in it and phone numbers that you could call on a thing called a Telephone and that there was a printed thing called a news paper that had not only stories of the day but advertisements and circulars in it.  People supposedly even went to stores where they lived to buy stuff. 

How primitive a society that must have been.


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## The_Traveler (Apr 28, 2017)

nerwin said:


> Today we are so incredibly fortunate to be able to share our work with the entire world with a press of a button, while it's a blessing, its a curse.
> 
> We are so use to people these days providing some sort of feedback on your work and we enjoy getting that feedback, it makes us feel good.
> 
> ...



One of the mods has a link in his signature to a short post on how to get feedback.
Very useful and, imo, right on target.

I went back and looked at three of your recent postings, actually four but the one about stop lights was more of an illustration and doesn't count for me.
There were two pictures of flowers and one of a chipmunk.
And I am about to give my forthright response.

You aren't working at framing and editing.
You are producing middle of the road images and nothing about them says '_I am the product of care and attention, look at me_.'
You are competing for attention with the thousands of like images and you need to work at the art part of it.

There is one certain way to get more and better feedback and that is to pose a question about the image and pick some people to give feedback.
Give people a way to start talking about the image, make it easy for them rather than giving them a blank slate.
Next time you post a picture, send PMs to 4 or 5 people whose critique you value and ask for help with the image.


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## nerwin (Apr 28, 2017)

The_Traveler said:


> nerwin said:
> 
> 
> > Today we are so incredibly fortunate to be able to share our work with the entire world with a press of a button, while it's a blessing, its a curse.
> ...



Hmm. Maybe photography just isn't for me... Thanks.


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## jcdeboever (Apr 28, 2017)

MSnowy said:


> Shoot for you not to impress others. Likes and comments can be deceiving. If you were around this site 5 0r 6 years ago you would have gotten a lot better critique on your photos. I've noticed in the past year that people on here will like just about any photo that's posted. If you don't get likes or comment on here it's really the silent way of people saying the photo is either not interesting or not that good. So the only one that needs to like your photos is you.


I give up

Sent from my SM-T377V using ThePhotoForum.com mobile app


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## nerwin (Apr 28, 2017)

After thinking about it and reading all the replies...

I'm just going to take pictures for myself and I don't care if they suck. If taking photos allows me to take my mind off the issues in my life and my depression, it's well worth it to me.

I don't need my photos to be "technically" correct, there is no (in my opinion) perfect way to process photos. How can you make your work your own when other people tell you to compose and process your work THEIR way? We are all unique individuals with unique feelings, opinions, tastes..etc.

Art is subjective. Period.

I'll be honest, I don't take criticism easy. I never have in my entire life, its just the way I am.

There are plenty of artists out there that I don't like and I think their work is horrible but yet, a lot of people love it! That is what I call, *art*.

So yeah, maybe I am mediocre. But you know what? I don't give a crap. A lot of people like my photos and that puts a smile on my face which is rare for me. I may never be in national geographic or in a billion magazines, on billboards or art museums...who cares, right? I doubt many of those people ever intended to be in magazines or in museums either.

The funny thing is, I do have my photos in a few magazines, in calendars, on local and national TV and numerous websites. Heck, even Boston Cab uses my photo on their website. I even won a couple photo contests! Albeit they are small, but I never thought those would happen to mediocre like me. I guess all those people were wrong...

I'm not the fastest learner in the world, maybe someday I'll graduate from mediocre. Haha


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## Derrel (Apr 28, 2017)

If you want to be more accurate, art is not subjective. Art is_* intersubjective*_. Look into the definition of intersubjective. There is a HUGE amount of consensus regarding art of all types: literature,music, dance, theater,painting, sculpture. There actually **is** a LOT of agreement that such and such is good _______, and so and so is an amazing _______, and her work is fantastic, etc.etc..

Again, "art" is not "subjective". There actually ARE principles that art is based around...it's not like a monkey can take some paint and create a great artwork...it takes training, and knowledge, and cultural awareness to make art, and not just kitschy crap. "NCIS" is NOT "art"...it is not a Shakespearean drama.

Justin Bieber's music does not rise to the level of  serious "artistic music"...it is bubblegum pop music...Meanwhile, music performance students at universities today recognize the genius of David Byrne, formerly of The Talking Heads.


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## table1349 (Apr 28, 2017)




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## nerwin (Apr 28, 2017)

Well you get what I mean...

Its not like I don't put ANY thought into my photos that I take. I put a lot of thought into them, more than you might believe but I'm just not going to be as good as you or many of the other people on this forum. There will always be someone better.

I do know the basic rules of composition, I maybe dumb but I do know some stuff mind you.

Photography is remotely the only thing that people actually told me I was good at..well besides pissing people off. 

But I'm fine with being mediocre, I have a mediocre life as it is. It's all good


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## Derrel (Apr 28, 2017)

There's a reason there are actual degrees granted in the various "arts"....people who have studied art at the university level get kind of testy when people who know nothing about it make off-base statements, as if there are zero standards of ANY kind, for any type of "art"...

As we all know and frquently state in forums: medicine is subjective, and architecture is subjective, and plumbing is subjective, and metallurgy is subjective, and organic chemistry is subjective, and mathematics is all entirely subjective... because, you know...well, everything in the world is entirely, you know...."*subjective*".


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## table1349 (Apr 28, 2017)

Derrel said:


> If you want to be more accurate, art is not subjective. Art is_* intersubjective*_. Look into the definition of intersubjective. There is a HUGE amount of consensus regarding art of all types: literature,music, dance, theater,painting, sculpture. There actually **is** a LOT of agreement that such and such is good _______, and so and so is an amazing _______, and her work is fantastic, etc.etc..
> 
> Again, "art" is not "subjective". There actually ARE principles that art is based around...it's not like a monkey can take some paint and create a great artwork...it takes training, and knowledge, and cultural awareness to make art, and not just kitschy crap. "NCIS" is NOT "art"...it is not a Shakespearean drama.
> 
> Justin Bieber's music does not rise to the level of  serious "artistic music"...it is bubblegum pop music...Meanwhile, music performance students at universities today recognize the genius of David Byrne, formerly of The Talking Heads.


I am afraid I must disagree.  Apes are descended from monkeys making them part of the monkey family and humans are descended from Apes making them the highest form of monkey.  Therefore a monkey can create great artwork and they do.  

They also all have some form of feces flinging associated with them.  Some fling physical feces while others fling written feces.


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## nerwin (Apr 28, 2017)

If everything in the world wasn't subjective, then it would be boring and I wouldn't want to live in it.


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## The_Traveler (Apr 29, 2017)

nerwin said:


> Its not like I don't put ANY thought into my photos that I take. I put a lot of thought into them, more than you might believe but I'm just not going to be as good as you or many of the other people on this forum. There will always be someone better.
> 
> I do know the basic rules of composition, I may be dumb but I do know some stuff mind you.
> Photography is remotely the only thing that people actually told me I was good at..well besides pissing people off.
> But I'm fine with being mediocre, I have a mediocre life as it is. It's all good



If you want to be better then there is a clear way to go about it.
Ask for help, ask for specific input.
If you don't care, then no one wants to give input if you don't want it.

Knowing 'the basic rules of composition' and not trying to knit those rules into a greater understanding is a certain formula for staying at a certain level.
Look at really good or even terrific photos.
The 'basic rules of composition' may be part of that photo's success but there is a great deal of understanding and skills and knowledge that doesn't fall under 'basic'.

The photo in my signature is as good a photo as I've taken and the 'Rules of Composition' don't have much to do with it.


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## nerwin (Apr 29, 2017)

The_Traveler said:


> nerwin said:
> 
> 
> > Its not like I don't put ANY thought into my photos that I take. I put a lot of thought into them, more than you might believe but I'm just not going to be as good as you or many of the other people on this forum. There will always be someone better.
> ...



But I don't learn the some way as other people. I need to learn the way that works for me best. I've had a hard time learning in school, I had to find alternative ways to learn what was being taught. You know? 

I really appreciate your help, seriously..I do. I just feel like an idiot.


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## Overread (Apr 29, 2017)

A few thoughts:

1) Read the link in my signature about feedback! 
It's focused on getting FEEDBACK for critique - broken into two concepts its about first becoming more self aware of your own work; secondly its about presenting yourself to others in a way that makes those with experience and knowledge feel more inclined to spend their free time talking to you. That presentation is important; just throwing up a photo MIGHT get some feedback; and that  might be the kind you want. But putting it up with details, description, your own thoughts etc... is far more likely to get you the feedback you want and encourage others to think that you are WORTH spending time taking too. 

2) "Take photos for yourself and no one else." 
Eh I tend to think this is grumpy "old man" talk if you actually take it to heart and try to follow this advice faithfully. And in my opinion its a very isolationist view that is rather silly to share in any social gathering. Because those coming to a social gathering (be it online or in person) are already showing that they wish to interact; to share their work. As such the views of others ARE important. 
What is really the point is to put the views of others into proper perspective in line with your own desires. To be mindful of what you want and get out of the hobby and to take in the views of those who align with your desires. Similarly learn to communicate your intentions. If you really just want to relax and take photos and not really get critique that is GREAT. It's totally fine and nothing to be ashamed of and you can make full use of the "Just for Fun" gallery for that; or put a note into your posts that you're thankful for critique but just enjoying your hobby etc... 
Always be respectfully polite to those who offer critique as they are just trying to help in their own way and interact with you; you don't have to follow their suggestions, but you should thank them all the same. 

3) Don't be afraid to learn.
Now by all means you don't have to make every trip or any trip into a lesson; but don't be closed to advice. A little hint here and there can help you improve and a few extra thoughts won't take the fun away. Creative lessons NEVER reduce your creative capacity, they increase it. Rules/theories of composition/exposure/etc... are all about learning, understanding and unlocking creative potential. 
As said above, art has concepts, theories, rules, working models etc... Art is like music, like language, like writing - its got a structure that allows communication and learning more of that structure allows you to communicate better. 

So don't shun it if its offered, but equally you don't have to let it dominate your hobby.

4) In my view most of us (esp those who seek out a forum like this) are more apt to have cycles of our hobby. Some will be cycles of shooting and sharing; others will be learning cycles where we are focusing on learning new methods or refinement. These cycles will come and go as our interests and desires change and shift. Sometimes you'll be all full of questions and wanting feedback and advance - other times you just want to share photos because you can. 
Heck one mod around here has 40+ pages of ferret photos - point and shoot style ferret photos. The importance there isn't art its about sleepy cute ferrets and sharing that joy. Many other members are just the same. 

5) Everyone on this forum has a desire to share and interact. For most of us that includes sharing our work; why we choose to do that varies. No one person is doing it right; no one approach is correct or meaningful or best or anything like that. There is a benefit in communicating whilst you're sharing; but otherwise just enjoy your hobby and sharing it.


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## Derrel (Apr 29, 2017)

If you want feedback,then asking for feedback would make sense. Asking for guidance or for C&C makes sense.Random posts get various amounts of attention. Try to stay positive. Get some books if you want to learn from established teachers. You can be your own best advocate. Allow yourself No pity parties.


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## Overread (Apr 29, 2017)

Hey wait since when did we get a Top Poster of the Month tag?

Darn it Derrel you're posting way to much!


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## nerwin (Apr 29, 2017)

Derrel said:


> If you want feedback,then asking for feedback would make sense. Asking for guidance or for C&C makes sense.Random posts get various amounts of attention. Try to stay positive. Get some books if you want to learn from established teachers. You can be your own best advocate. Allow yourself No pity parties.



Only if I could read without being distracted haha. I have photography books, I just need to read them!


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## pixmedic (Apr 29, 2017)

nerwin said:


> Well you get what I mean...
> 
> Its not like I don't put ANY thought into my photos that I take. I put a lot of thought into them, more than you might believe but I'm just not going to be as good as you or many of the other people on this forum. There will always be someone better.
> 
> ...



heres the deal with forum critique. 
you have a lot of factors working for, and against you at any given time. 
A lack of responses doesn't mean your photo is bad.  not everyone critiques and not everyone is on when you post. sometimes you just have to give it some time and a few bumps. 
also, sometimes people feel that if they dont have any suggestions on how to improve a photo, or it isnt within their preferred genre, they just dont comment. 
I'll use myself as an example. I dont care much for wildlife photography... oh look, _*another*_ bird shot.... its flying again, its sitting on a branch again.  boring.  so I am not likely
to comment on any of those types of photos because they don't particularly interest me.  On the flip side of that, i typically get very little response to my work because, like bird shots, its basically the same stuff over, and over, and over. I have a particular style, I like it,  it makes me a little money, and im fine with it being boring. Im excited about a portrait session i have scheduled for next week with a repeat client because i get to do a real working test with an old Russian lens I recently purchased. (a tair-11 135mm f2.8) nuts huh? Just some boring portraits, but the lens has some wonderful people-rendering properties and I can't wait to see first hand. I doubt I could find more than a scant few here that would share that interest, but it doesn't matter because its exciting _*to me*_.  _*thats*_ what you have to find.  No, not an old portrait lens.....something about photography that excites you. you know, unless portrait work excites you. then I highly recommend trying some old portrait lenses.  Find your photography niche, then just keep throwing things out there.

the forum goes through phases. kinda like the moon. we will go through a period where there are a lot of people going through and commenting on photos on a daily basis, and after a while, we hit a bit of a lull where the commenting dies down to a trickle. sometimes it can be a struggle just to get someone, anyone,  to acknowledge that they at least looked at your stuff. 
its not you in particular, its just how things go sometimes.

a great way to get critique is to _*ask*_ for critique. 
post a picture, and instead of just waiting for people to look and comment, get the ball rolling yourself by telling people about the shot, what your setup was, what your intention for the end result was, and how _*you *_felt it came out.  Self-critique it first. if you see something you think needs improvement, ask about it specifically. these things will open the door for discussion and give people a good starting point. 

but here's my main point. 
ok, I kinda forgot where i was going with this...so here's some other point that will now become my main point. 
dont be discouraged by forum mood swings. 
If I may suggest an alternative method for soliciting online advice....
find someone that shoots what you want to shoot, and whose end product reflects what you would like to be able to produce. Message them and see if they will mentor you. 
it doesnt have to be a full time gig, just someone you can bounce ideas off of and get suggestions from, and who can offer critique specific to your particular genre. 
Look around man...you can find members here that excel in pretty much any genre of photography you can think of. you dont have to limit yourself to this forum either, it can be
from anywhere, in person, or any online outlet.


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## nerwin (Apr 29, 2017)

pixmedic said:


> nerwin said:
> 
> 
> > Well you get what I mean...
> ...



What if I like a number of genres? Haha.


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## pixmedic (Apr 29, 2017)

nerwin said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> > nerwin said:
> ...



find a number of mentors equal to the number of genres necessary to get the expertise you need.


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## Derrel (Apr 29, 2017)

Overread said:


> Hey wait since when did we get a Top Poster of the Month tag?
> 
> Darn it Derrel you're posting way to much!



I've eaerned the tag once a couple years ago, then last month and thius month; in the past KmH and JC Debovoever have also earned the tag...and a few other folks too I think.


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## nerwin (Apr 29, 2017)

Derrel said:


> Overread said:
> 
> 
> > Hey wait since when did we get a Top Poster of the Month tag?
> ...



Do you have time to shoot?


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## nerwin (Apr 29, 2017)

@pixmedic Mmm Mitakon Speedmaster 85mm f/1.2 lens for Nikon F-mount (sample photos) | Nikon Rumors

Lol.


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## jeffW (May 2, 2017)

nerwin said:


> What can we do keep ourselves encouraged when we don't get feedback on our work?
> 
> I like to share my work with the world but how can I get the thought out of my head that I NEED some kind of visual or verbal feedback on my photos to keep going?



Before the _internet of things_  there were and still are local photo-clubs. If you're looking for critiques and verbal feedback I would suggest looking to see if your city has one.  If not double check Meetup there are plenty of photo-clubs that host nights of sharing prints specifically for critiquing.


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## Kroneberger0408 (May 6, 2017)

Shoot a passion project. Like someone said on the first page, if its something you truly love that your taking pictures of it will show in your work. DO it bc you love nature or you love people. DOnt do it for the likes on instagram.... That website is competently fake.. There are literally bots that you can pay to just go out and get you more followers. They pay the bot or company to just go around and follow, like and comment on random peoples work and thus getting those ppl to come to there page... Its as fake and you can get...


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## chuasam (May 6, 2017)

ditto.
I'm only really experienced to critique on portraits.
I live and breathe portraiture.
Show me food photography and I drool. Unless it is horrific, chances are that I'll think it's good. cuz. .food.

Show me landscape photography, I'm like ho hum..it's outdoors..boring
I don't like outdoors.


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## jcdeboever (May 6, 2017)

For me, I try to do projects weekly, some I share, many I don't because I learned or understood the concept. Most are done from John Hedgecoe books which I have many. I choose the concepts that elude me most and often more challenging in my own mind. The ones I share are usually ones I am not confident that I grasped the concept. So by stating my goals, usually yield a fair amount of response. You may or may not have noticed but I have tried to dabble in a variety of genre to expedite the learning curve on the hardware end. Getting it right in camera is really a bi-product of 70's Hedgecoe books where the film camera was the only tool. I have been shooting for a year and a half, now I am exploring stylization. Looking back...the Hedgecoe book, this forum, and TPF members have expedited the hardware portion.


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