# Portrait of a Skater



## JamesRPhoto (May 1, 2012)

A friend of mine called me a few weeks ago to do some skate photos for his team at a local skate park, as I was leaving I figured I'd do a quick portrait. All natural light and some creative processing work.


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## abbyar (May 1, 2012)

Very nice. I like the brightness of the shirt (ironically subway layout) against the natural backdrop.


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## Designer (May 1, 2012)

Have you thought of cropping this?  Try a very tight crop in portrait format.  Lose the extra person, the tree, and the bottom of his shirt.


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## JamesRPhoto (May 1, 2012)

No, the environmental element is a huge part of my style, and IMO without the other person with a skateboard, he's just a guy standing in a park. Boring "just a guy standing there" portraits are not my thing.


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## killbill (May 1, 2012)

I like it with the background....it gives it the situational persepective


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## o hey tyler (May 1, 2012)

IMO, you can't really tell that this is a "skate" setting. He's not standing in a skatepark, he's not holding a skateboard, he's not wearing a helmet. The only connection that you have with it being a "skate" scenario is the fact that there's an out of focus guy that MIGHT be holding a skateboard in the background. But honestly, I wouldn't have known that if you hadn't said anything. To me, he looks like an unenthusiastic youth standing on a street on an overcast day. 

You could loose a lot of the space on the right, which doesn't add anything to the photo; whilst still maintaining the figure in the background. It would also lessen the obvious tilt of the horizon as it tapers off towards the edge of the frame. The vignette is a bit heavy for my taste, but that's more up to your artistic interpretation. 

The photo is nice and sharp though, and I do like the way the subway map pops on his shirt. You did a good job with that.


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## JamesRPhoto (May 1, 2012)

That is indeed a skate park, and the person behind him has a skateboard, the cut out sculptures in the background also depict a skate set, the point in my work isn't to necessarily put everything out in the open so the concept can be discovered at a glance, I enjoy photos that gradually allow the viewer to discover concepts as they view it longer. I appreciate your take on it however I don't think that's how I would have shot it.


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## o hey tyler (May 1, 2012)

I understand where you are coming from in the respect that you don't want everything to be laid out for immediate discovery... But there needs to be more supporting elements especially if you're into commercial photography. You have to be able to see the image as a disconnected viewer. Expect the viewer to NOT immediately be told the context. The sculpture you speak of could be literally any art installation around a town or city, there's nothing about it that says "skatepark" to me, and it's partially covered by a tree which further negates the context you are speaking of. 

I know you can TELL me that it's a skatepark, but contextually all I see is the curb on a curved road and someone crossing it. You yourself said that you like to make images where the setting doesn't need to be spelled out. If there were kicker jumps or a half pipe it would be somewhat obvious. I see you're only 19, and I am just trying to give you some helpful tips for the future. I was 19 once, and also thought that I was infallible and that my work was not worthy of critique. I soon learned otherwise and started adopting some of what people suggested.  Your other work indicates that you have talent with a camera, but this photo needs some work if you want to actually follow through with a cohesive vision. 

I was presented with a commercial project that involved promoting a web design company that practices all of the "web standards," as well as makes all of their websites view-able and 100% usable on iOS devices. The goal of the image was to give the viewer the idea that they were looking at a website on their mobile device in a museum or art gallery setting because the company does specifically art gallery, or museum sites. I chose to utilize a shallow depth of field with a long focal length to appropriately blur the works of art, but more specifically draw attention to the subject holding the iPad. There is no doubt that there is a person in front of works of art hanging from a wall, and they are using an iPad to view a website constructed by the company. The image can be viewed here: plein air interactive: Website design, mobile app development and online marketing strategy for museums
I also supplied the image in the gutter of the page that coincided with their vision to be "light and airy." 

I posted a thread on here with the images before they were finalized and received a lot of positive critique, even with the way the image was. I still changed things, but I got a foundation for what the image should be. If you're interested in seeing the thread I'd be more than happy to link you. 

I look forward to seeing more of your work, and this post was not meant to discourage you in the least. Hopefully you will become more receptive to critique and be willing to experiment with your images in the future. Keep shooting!


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## JamesRPhoto (May 1, 2012)

I've been in the game for a while now, to me it seems like you're assuming I'm new to photography, I apologize if this is a wrong assumption. I've been taking critique on my photography and have been involved in quite a few different photography forums and clubs in the past 5 years, and have come to realize that not everyone will understand the style I create my work in, and I shouldn't take every piece of advice to create a more technically sound image that doesn't convey the feel that I enjoy and get from the work I've done. I take critique on what makes sense to me, and if there's something that you'd do differently, then that's fine, you just aren't part of my audience and I don't expect everyone to be. 

I currently hold a staff position at a design studio doing what you described your work to be, and I understand all to well the need for a technically sound and simplistic image to advertise a product and convey a certain message, however when I'm doing a shoot for pure artistic enjoyment, these rules need not apply and I find more joy in exploring alternative representations of an image.


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## Trever1t (May 1, 2012)

JamesRPhoto said:


> No, the environmental element is a huge part of my style, and IMO without the other person with a skateboard, he's just a guy standing in a park. Boring "just a guy standing there" portraits are not my thing.



Did you want C&C? You don't seem to be too receptive and appear to rebuke the critiscm given. I will give you my opinion here; The subject has character but other than that the image lacks any interest to me. I also don't see skatepark. The background doesn't add to this image, it's not horizontal and feels 'uncomfortable'. I look at your image and I see a guy standing in the park, but hey, that's just my opinion


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## Derrel (May 1, 2012)

Ya *GOTTA' get rid of *that telephone pole in the background on the right-hand side of the frame...that simply MUST go!


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## JamesRPhoto (May 1, 2012)

Not especially no, I'm used to forums having a section for photo sharing and a separate section for C&C, is this not the case here? My work is my style and that's not going to change, when I hit save I've completed all that the image is and will ever be, this one in particular has been featured in a "suburban portrait" gallery and won a local award for environmental portraiture. I don't necessarily come on here to improve myself, moreso to share what I'm doing. Every element in each photo is left to provoke a certain feeling for a certain audience, if it does nothing for this audience then so be it.


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## prodigy2k7 (May 1, 2012)

_A gallery for sharing photos of the people in your life, from informal  portraits & candids, to your home studio shots or street  photography. *    Post for discussion and  feedback, including general  critique.*_


You should really take this C&C to heart. You can improve your skills and its not really a "style" that's wrong with your shots. There are things in your photo that are distracting and take away from what it is. Things like the uneven horizon. If it was an obvious tilt, it would be more obvious. It looks like you just did that on accident. I think it could look better with the guy holding a skateboard. Don't cut people off at the joints. I think you should either show more of him vertically (including feet) or show less of his shirt. Also as Derrel said, that telephone pole is distracting.


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## Trever1t (May 1, 2012)

JamesRPhoto said:


> Not especially no, I'm used to forums having a section for photo sharing and a separate section for C&C, is this not the case here? My work is my style and that's not going to change, when I hit save I've completed all that the image is and will ever be, this one in particular has been featured in a "suburban portrait" gallery and won a local award for environmental portraiture. I don't necessarily come on here to improve myself, moreso to share what I'm doing. *Every element in each photo is left to provoke a certain feeling for a certain audience*, if it does nothing for this audience then so be it.



While I can respect your intentions you give off an air of arrogance in that you know exactly what you are doing and have attained the pinnicle of photography....which you have not. If you are not here to learn from citique of your peers then perhaps you are in the wrong house.


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## Derrel (May 1, 2012)

All that dead, brown grass, and all that downhill tilt on the right hand side of the frame....Ugh!

Hold your hand up to the screen and cover up the entire right 1/3 of the frame...the photo then has at least "some" focus on the zit-faced skater in the foreground. The dead grass and the white pieces of trash, the telephone pole, and the pond, and the crooked horizon...man...all of those elements are extraneous. If you were Mary Ellen Mark, I could see this kind of shot. if you were showing us something interesting besides dead grass and garbage, I could understand your defense of your "choices". I would, if you were Mary Ellen Mark, assume that you had actually MADE cognitive choices; looking at this image, I have the feeling that all you did was aim the camera and mash the shutter button. If you are trying to emulate the studied unstudied type of photography practiced by masters with two to five decades of experience, you have missed the mark. I KNOW the style you are trying to pull off...and you are not yet showing us that you can succeed.

A little tip: if you wanna be artsy-fartsy, B&W would help. A LOT. If you wanna see if your composition sucks or is solid, try a B&W conversion. If you wanna see if your composition is weak, try flipping the image upside-down and studying it.


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## JamesRPhoto (May 1, 2012)

I very much appreciate that you're trying to help me but I have to disagree that those suggestions would improve the photograph, I apologize if it comes across as arrogance, but that's just how I feel. There are a lot of photos taken by top photographers in their respective industry that have components that I would change to make it more appealing to me, but ultimately it's their creative discression and their feel of the photograph that's earned them the reputation they have, and I myself have come further in my industry and become a lot happier as an artist since I stopped doing what didn't make sense to me, in order to appeal to others. Again, I don't mean any arrogance or defensiveness, that's just my philosophy on the matter and I don't know how to say it nicer than that.


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## Derrel (May 1, 2012)

OH, I see you are the Digital Director/Commercial Photographer at Omni Studios. And you're 19 years old and are talking about the reputation of famous photographers...

Yeah, I knew it all once too.


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## JamesRPhoto (May 1, 2012)

It's amazing how often I hear that because of my age my viewpoint on a topic has no merits, I'm very sorry you feel that way.


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## Mach0 (May 1, 2012)

JamesRPhoto said:
			
		

> It's amazing how often I hear that because of my age my viewpoint on a topic has no merits, I'm very sorry you feel that way.



You are right that age doesn't have any merit. Many of us have been your age before. There is a strong correlation between your age group and the attitude you display. Thats what they are heading with it.If you posted in the forum where C&C is welcome, expect it. It's not the style you will be changing, it's little distractions and technicalities that take away from your image. Minor things that will lead from exceptional to excellent. To be honest, I enjoyed the image. If you didnt say it was a skate park, I wouldn't have known. I would straighten the horizon some. It's not crooked enough to be intentional. You are skilled with a camera and show a helluva lot of potential. A more humble attitude will take you far.


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## JamesRPhoto (May 1, 2012)

As you can hopefully see, the subject is not tilted, that's just how the scene is. The steps behind him are properly aligned, as is the skateboarder behind him, and himself. I'm seriously not trying to be arrogant here, but I'm also going to excersize my right to disagree with something that I don't agree with.


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## o hey tyler (May 1, 2012)

Also, slightly off topic... I noticed that the company you work for, OmniStudios is in the business of SEO, Hosting, and Web Design. You might want to point out to the interface producer and web developer that Pingdom Tools rates your site "Your website is *slower than 71%* of all tested websites."

Just as a general "heads up." BTW, I tested from both NY servers, and from Texas. I was going to use the Netherlands too, but I figured that wouldn't be necessary.


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## JamesRPhoto (May 1, 2012)

Did you notice the banner at the top of the site as well? I'm not a web designer, I'm a photographer, how their site runs and what they do with it is their own deal. From my understanding the majority of their work comes from pre-existing relationships as they've been in business since 01.


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## tirediron (May 1, 2012)

JamesRPhoto said:


> ...won a local award for environmental portraiture.


I'm sorry, but I don't see how this is an environmental portrait.  Is this the subject's normal environment?  An environmental portrait should so the subject in their normal environment.  The miner at the coal-face, the fire-fighter donning his turn-out gear, etc.



JamesRPhoto said:


> ... I don't necessarily come on here to improve myself, moreso to share what I'm doing...


To me, this comes across as:  "My work is above critique, you all should watch and learn from me!"  Now, I'm not saying you meant it to come across that way, but that is how I read it.  Annie Leibovitz can get away with a statement like that, you and I?  Not so much.


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## MTVision (May 1, 2012)

JamesRPhoto said:
			
		

> As you can hopefully see, the subject is not tilted, that's just how the scene is. The steps behind him are properly aligned, as is the skateboarder behind him, and himself. I'm seriously not trying to be arrogant here, but I'm also going to excersize my right to disagree with something that I don't agree with.



I don't think they were talking about your subject being tilted - the horizon is tilted.


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## JamesRPhoto (May 1, 2012)

tirediron said:


> JamesRPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > ...won a local award for environmental portraiture.
> ...



I definitely see how that could come across like that, but the thing with text is that it's very easy for almost any sentence to be taken differently than it is intended. I simply was not looking for critique on this image, it is what it is type of thing.


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## tirediron (May 1, 2012)

JamesRPhoto said:


> ...An unamused teen in a skate park doesn't fit a certain stereotype to you? Whether or not the scene is desperately obvious, this is really the environment that he spends about 10 hours a day in


But we don't KNOW it's a skateboard park; there's nothing in the image that really gives a clue to the environment.  To me (and others) it looks like the side of a road somewhere.



JamesRPhoto said:


> there was a full story caption along with the entry to explain this


 And therein lies the problem:  A good photo is worth a thousand words; it should not need a thousand words.  



JamesRPhoto said:


> , but I just posted here to share some work.


Fair enough, and we welcome you to do that.  FOr future reference however, I would suggest adding some text to the post indicating that comments and critique are not desired.  Remember though that the 'comments' part of C&C includes compliments and that "critique" might contain that one 'Ah-ha' tip that changes an entire thought process.  It's entirely up to you...


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## tirediron (May 1, 2012)

In a somewhat related vein, here is a cropped version of your image rotated by -3 degrees (left).  Not intended as an "See how much better I made your image", but rather to demonstrate that in fact your original was rather badly tilted (unless Sask Power pounds its poles in on awful angle!).  Note that this does not render the image truly vertical (that was at -4.8 deg, but rather is a compromise between accuracy and appearance, accounting for the subject's slouching posture).


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## JamesRPhoto (May 1, 2012)

:thumbup: Thank you for all critiques and recommendations, they will be considered in future work.


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## Derrel (May 1, 2012)

Seems to me like the horizon is tilted. And the telephone pole....those crazy idiots at Saskatoon Power, driving the poles into the ground on an angle...the workmen musta' drunk a case of Molson before they put that pole in the gound, eh?


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## Trever1t (May 1, 2012)

tirediron said:


> In a somewhat related vein, here is a cropped version of your image rotated by -3 degrees (left).  Not intended as an "See how much better I made your image", but rather to demonstrate that in fact your original was rather badly tilted (unless Sask Power pounds its poles in on awful angle!).  Note that this does not render the image truly vertical (that was at -4.8 deg, but rather is a compromise between accuracy and appearance, accounting for the subject's slouching posture).




Now this speaks to me!


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## MTVision (May 1, 2012)

tirediron said:
			
		

> In a somewhat related vein, here is a cropped version of your image rotated by -3 degrees (left).  Not intended as an "See how much better I made your image", but rather to demonstrate that in fact your original was rather badly tilted (unless Sask Power pounds its poles in on awful angle!).  Note that this does not render the image truly vertical (that was at -4.8 deg, but rather is a compromise between accuracy and appearance, accounting for the subject's slouching posture).



Is it just me or did nobody else notice the 3rd person? I didn't even see him in the original picture - not until it was cropped.


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## rexbobcat (May 1, 2012)

Can't tell if troll or very very pretentious....

It is tilted. Look at the telephone pole. 

I just don't really understand what the telephone pole, and the rest of the dead space does for the photo.

There is also a long weird structure sticking out of his head.  

Annie Leibovitz this photo is not. I'm sorry.


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## JamesRPhoto (May 1, 2012)

Why, someone please inform me, is it impossible for myself to have a different perspective on the photo as users on here? I get a feeling from the original that I don't get with those elements missing that you find disposable. Is that the thing with photo forums, just go along with what everyone else likes and don't dare trying to disagree? :thumbdown:


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## o hey tyler (May 1, 2012)

It's not impossible to have a different perspective. But you can learn a lot when putting your work in front of unbiased photographers looking at it from a critical standpoint. You were there, taking the photo, spending time with the subject, at the skatepark you know and are used to... None of us were, so what we see is much different than what you see and perceive. 

That's the great thing about people who are completely disconnected from the shoot. They can tell you what the image needs to make it "work" rather than having your own judgement clouded by the context that you insert as the photographer from experiencing the scenario firsthand. This is the whole point of receiving and learning from critique. It's unbiased collections of opinions regarding your photo that you were not previously exposed to. Generally, when there's an overwhelming opinion regarding a photo (as there is in this case) it's a clear indication that there's something wrong with the image... At least that's how most photographers see things whilst getting critique. Not quite sure about you at this point. 

Rexbobcat is also a youth photographer who has placed in at least one photography contest that I know of, yet he doesn't allow that to cloud his judgement. He posts images for critique, and adopts it where he sees fit. Yet he remains humble the entire time. 

As I see it, when you know the photographic "rules," and you've expressed your knowledge of them, it is then your honor to break said rules and try something different. Breaking rules still means that the image should "work" for the majority of viewers. This time, your image didn't work for the majority... At least for this group of photographers.


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## JamesRPhoto (May 1, 2012)

That's fine that it doesn't work for you guys, I think I've said that. The image was taken for a specific purpose, and I more or less posted it here for the sake of posting some content. I have other threads with other work that haven't been posted in at all, that I feel contain images that would convey a lot more emotion and feeling to a general audience.


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## JamesRPhoto (May 1, 2012)

I decided to read this thread over again on the off chance that maybe I'm just crazy...and sadly I found that I am. I completely see how I could have been percieved as arrogant here, although I assure everyone it wasn't my intentions. My apologizes. Guess I blew the first impression, eh?


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## Derrel (May 1, 2012)

JamesRPhoto, I stopped by your on-line portfolio. Your best photos posted on that page are better than the shot posted here. The shot posted in this thread is poor. It has a weak composition,shows poor camera-handling fundamentals, it lacks a clear subject, has the guy's hands cropped off awkwardly, and the post processing is weak and ineffective. The photo fails to communicate squat. You say it's a skateboarder portrait. But the photo as an editorial photo, is a massive failure. It does NOT say, or show "skateboarder". What it shows is a crooked horizon, dead grass and litter, a crooked telephone pole, and a pond, and an uneven, crude vignette. Your opinion that the photo is good, that it is successful, is an opinion you are free to hold. Your perspective on the photo is a perspective that you are clearly free to hold, all by your lonesome. Your photo is not liked by anybody here because it is weak. Your failure to understand that your photo is poor is indicative of strong conviction on your part. Your attempts to blame other people for calling out its flaws is...well, it is what it is. Perhaps some day you will become more aware of how the language of visual communication is shaped by MANY underlying principles. Perhaps if you study photography for a few more years, you will come to understand why the photo posted in this thread has met with solid disapproval. And perhaps, some day, you will look back on this photo, and be able to see the multiple weaknesses that it exhibits. I would wager that after only six months, the flaws in this photo will become evident to you.


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## JamesRPhoto (May 1, 2012)

:/ thanks for the critique.


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## o hey tyler (May 1, 2012)

JamesRPhoto said:


> I decided to read this thread over again on the off chance that maybe I'm just crazy...and sadly I found that I am. I completely see how I could have been percieved as arrogant here, although I assure everyone it wasn't my intentions. My apologizes. Guess I blew the first impression, eh?



No worries. We're not here to bash your style or belittle your work. Just other photographers (some on different levels than others) bouncing ideas to help other photographers improve their craft or see things that they missed. 

It's very adult for you to apologize and it won't go unnoticed.


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## JamesRPhoto (May 1, 2012)

Thank you for being cool about that, I still maintain that it fit it's purpose but I completely agree that it's very weak out of context and I should maybe rethink it as a display piece alone, I let my connection to the subject increase it's value in my eyes.


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## Derrel (May 1, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


> JamesRPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > I decided to read this thread over again on the off chance that maybe I'm just crazy...and sadly I found that I am. I completely see how I could have been percieved as arrogant here, although I assure everyone it wasn't my intentions. My apologizes. Guess I blew the first impression, eh?
> ...



You know what...you just made a hell of a GOOD "second impression" on me,JRP.


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## o hey tyler (May 1, 2012)

JamesRPhoto said:


> I let my connection to the subject increase it's value in my eyes.



BINGO! 

This actually happens a lot when parents take photos of their kids... I'm not kidding. It's tough when you become attached to your subject as a photographer. You're less likely to admit fault, or issues within an image. Something all photographers can struggle with at times. It's good to just take a step back and assess the situation, especially if you have a group of people in the same field as you in harsh disagreement.


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## o hey tyler (May 1, 2012)

BTW, the EXIF on your 1D reads that the artist is: Andre Hendarman. ​
I believe you can change that with EOS utility. Assuming that you bought the camera from Andre, and aren't stealing his work.


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## JamesRPhoto (May 2, 2012)

I know this, unfortunately the 1D II only connects in EOS info with windows XP and a firewire connection, neither of which I have at my disposal, nor do I have a mac. I also bought it from the secound owner, so I don't know who Andre is, though I did google him once in curiosity. I now shoot with 5D's so I don't have it, hopefully the new owner has been able to change it.


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## o hey tyler (May 2, 2012)

Ah, I shoot with a 5D and 5D2. I agree, the ability to change the "Artist" info is quite easy. I don't even think I've got mine configured at this point. Not that it matters a whole lot. If there were ever a copyright dispute on my end, I'm the one holding the RAW files. 

Don't see a name in this exif, do you? My exif reader is somewhat limited IMO. The 5D2 I use is refurbed, so I am assuming Canon wiped it clean before they sent it.


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## rexbobcat (May 2, 2012)

JamesRPhoto said:


> Why, someone please inform me, is it impossible for myself to have a different perspective on the photo as users on here? I get a feeling from the original that I don't get with those elements missing that you find disposable. Is that the thing with photo forums, just go along with what everyone else likes and don't dare trying to disagree? :thumbdown:



You seem to mistake general consensus with mob mentality. Why does our opinions seem to threaten your security about the image so much?

I don't get any feeling from the original. I'm not sure that there is anything to feel. I mean, it's a kid standing stoic against a generic urban background. The 1/64th of the frame that the skater takes up is not enough to give the photo context. Maybe my though processes are just not as enlightened...


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## JamesRPhoto (May 2, 2012)

I can't seem to find an author section in my exif reader plugin unfortunately.


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## Trever1t (May 2, 2012)

Can't exif be doctored in CS5? I think I recall Opanda had edit capability too? 

James, thanks for re-reading and coming down from the soapbox.


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## DiskoJoe (May 2, 2012)

JamesRPhoto said:


> No, the environmental element is a huge part of my style, and IMO without the other person with a skateboard, he's just a guy standing in a park. Boring "just a guy standing there" portraits are not my thing.



I do a square crop  from the right side of the guy in the subway shirt to the left and keep the kid on the board and lose the field an powerline.


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