# New Light on the DF



## globeglimpser (Dec 14, 2013)

Don't get so excited by the title. It's more, a new light was shed on the DF for me personally.

First I heard about the camera and  got excited!
Then I saw the camera and got more excited!
And then the specs came out and I was really excited!

But the price popped my bubble and I went back to my Full Frame D610 saving plan.


But recently, after seeing and feeling and playing with a Nikon DF, I have a need for the camera. It is unreasonable and one I can't justify on paper and with specs. It's more knowing that with that camera, my 28mm and a 50mm, I wouldn't need anything else for my street photography. With a D610, I will always think about the next upgrade, the next step...

And for that piece of mind, I would definitely save the extra $1000 AUD. Wonder what I could get for my Kidney...

Anyway, it was this that made me realise that the DF is really well priced. The price is not about manufacturing costs or specifications, it's about making a luxury product for those who see benefits beyond the specifications. Sure it is not for anyone, but if you find the DF appealing despite the price tag, then it is not something you are going to regret.


I will end with a quote from a review I read by Tom Grill:

"From the viewpoint of a non-professional but serious photographer I could easily see myself making this the only camera I own and be very happy with it."

Nikon Df retro elegance - a hands on review by Tom Grill | Nikon RumorsSo with that I will buy the DF. How it will fare for wildlife photography I do not know for street and travel, it will be a dream!


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## Zyr55 (Dec 14, 2013)

globeglimpser said:


> Don't get so excited by the title. It's more, a new light was shed on the DF for me personally.
> 
> First I heard about the camera and  got excited!
> Then I saw the camera and got more excited!
> ...



Yup! same here... I ended up getting a refurbished D600. Plus considering the lenses I have, the DF would look silly with the Nikon 24-70 and 70-200.


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## Derrel (Dec 14, 2013)

Yes, the Df has features that no other Nikon d-slr, regardless of price, has ever been equipped with. Its numerous physical dials and "hard" controls, as opposed to "soft controls" in menus on a screen probably scares a lot of newer shooters away, since they don't really have any experience with analog controls except, MAYBE, on their ovens or cooking stoves. The photos the author made with the Df looked pretty good. Undoubtedly, the low-light, high-ISO performance of the camera is quite good. I saw one comment that the Df out-performs the D4 at up to 1600 ISO, so the sensor is indeed REALLY good at those types of ISO levels.

What I wished the reviewer had mentioned was the way the viewfinder image appears, how it "handles", and some of the other real-world type of concerns that a prospective camera buyer often has. I've heard that the Df seems to be, as the expression goes, "better feel than the specs would indicate". That the sum of the parts is actually higher than what the numbers might seem to indicate at first glance. Bjorn Rorslett seemed to indicate that the Df's viewfinder system is much better than that in the D800, and vastly better than that of the D600. To me, knowing how good the viewfinder is would be a detail a review like this absolutely needs to have. Bjorn also mentioned that the Df allowed him to accurately and reliably focus manual focus lenses, like the 35/1.4 Ai-S and the 58mm f/1.2 Noct~Nikkor, which he notes is NOT the case with other Nikon D-slr cameras, so I think the viewfinder and viewfinder screen must be somehow 'different' than in other high-enmd Nikon cameras which are basically, exclusively designed to be used as all-AF cameras, with AFD lenses.


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## cgw (Dec 15, 2013)

Sorry but I see the Df as an over-priced dud that's testament to Nikon's isolation from its customers and a rapidly evolving camera market. It should have recaptured the size, simplicity and ergonomics of the FM/FE series. Instead we got an expensive, misshaped brick. So much for the "pure photography" malarkey.


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## robbins.photo (Dec 15, 2013)

cgw said:


> Sorry but I see the Df as an over-priced dud that's testament to Nikon's isolation from its customers and a rapidly evolving camera market. It should have recaptured the size, simplicity and ergonomics of the FM/FE series. Instead we got an expensive, misshaped brick. So much for the "pure photography" malarkey.



Just curious here CGW - but what is it exactly about Nikon that upsets you so much?  I mean it's obvious from every single posting you harbor a deep seated, indeed seemingly irrational hatred for Nikon.  I'm just curious as to why. 

As to the OP, if the camera inspires you I say go for it.


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## Coasty (Dec 15, 2013)

Derrel said:


> Yes, the Df has features that no other Nikon d-slr, regardless of price, has ever been equipped with. Its numerous physical dials and "hard" controls, as opposed to "soft controls" in menus on a screen probably scares a lot of newer shooters away, since they don't really have any experience with analog controls except, MAYBE, on their ovens or cooking stoves. The photos the author made with the Df looked pretty good. Undoubtedly, the low-light, high-ISO performance of the camera is quite good. I saw one comment that the Df out-performs the D4 at up to 1600 ISO, so the sensor is indeed REALLY good at those types of ISO levels.
> 
> What I wished the reviewer had mentioned was the way the viewfinder image appears, how it "handles", and some of the other real-world type of concerns that a prospective camera buyer often has. I've heard that the Df seems to be, as the expression goes, "better feel than the specs would indicate". That the sum of the parts is actually higher than what the numbers might seem to indicate at first glance. Bjorn Rorslett seemed to indicate that the Df's viewfinder system is much better than that in the D800, and vastly better than that of the D600. To me, knowing how good the viewfinder is would be a detail a review like this absolutely needs to have. Bjorn also mentioned that the Df allowed him to accurately and reliably focus manual focus lenses, like the 35/1.4 Ai-S and the 58mm f/1.2 Noct~Nikkor, which he notes is NOT the case with other Nikon D-slr cameras, so I think the viewfinder and viewfinder screen must be somehow 'different' than in other high-enmd Nikon cameras which are basically, exclusively designed to be used as all-AF cameras, with AFD lenses.





I think that Bjorn might just have to spend some more time behind a camera if he can&#8217;t get a 35mm f1.4 Ais to focus on a DSLR. Remember, it is the 12 inches behind the camera that make the shot. If the Df works for him, good, but I have never had a problem manual focusing lenses. Btw, that was the only game in town for about 150 years. 

Taken with my D300 and a 35mm f1.4 Ais manual focus lenses. No problems I can see, other than a little noise. 
 Bjorn shouldn&#8217;t feel bad though, not everyone is cut out to be a Professional.


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## astroNikon (Dec 15, 2013)

Derrel said:


> Yes, the Df has features that no other Nikon d-slr, regardless of price, has ever been equipped with. Its numerous physical dials and "hard" controls, as opposed to "soft controls" in menus on a screen probably scares a lot of newer shooters away, since they don't really have any experience with analog controls except, MAYBE, on their ovens or cooking stoves. The photos the author made with the Df looked pretty good. Undoubtedly, the low-light, high-ISO performance of the camera is quite good. I saw one comment that the Df out-performs the D4 at up to 1600 ISO, so the sensor is indeed REALLY good at those types of ISO levels.
> 
> What I wished the reviewer had mentioned was the way the viewfinder image appears, how it "handles", and some of the other real-world type of concerns that a prospective camera buyer often has. I've heard that the Df seems to be, as the expression goes, "better feel than the specs would indicate". That the sum of the parts is actually higher than what the numbers might seem to indicate at first glance. Bjorn Rorslett seemed to indicate that the Df's viewfinder system is much better than that in the D800, and vastly better than that of the D600. To me, knowing how good the viewfinder is would be a detail a review like this absolutely needs to have. Bjorn also mentioned that the Df allowed him to accurately and reliably focus manual focus lenses, like the 35/1.4 Ai-S and the 58mm f/1.2 Noct~Nikkor, which he notes is NOT the case with other Nikon D-slr cameras, so I think the viewfinder and viewfinder screen must be somehow 'different' than in other high-enmd Nikon cameras which are basically, exclusively designed to be used as all-AF cameras, with AFD lenses.



When I read that information about the viewfinder it brought back when I was first looking at my d7000, I was looking at replacement focusing screens for manual focus on some old lenses.  Which this company also offered some magic formula to make the viewfinder much brighter too
OptiBrite Brightness Enhancement - KatzEye Optics

Unfortunately, they don't offer screens for the d600 or 800.
I haven't realized how much I miss that focusing screen until Derrel mentioned it in some other post a few weeks ago.


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## bc_steve (Dec 15, 2013)

The price will come down...


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## globeglimpser (Dec 15, 2013)

bc_steve said:


> The price will come down...



Yes. I am currently in South Africa and will only return in late February so hopefully I can get a little off. However, come to think of it, it will be a few months after that before a significant price drop. And Present Value of the joy from owning this camera will be greater than PV of money saved so I doubt I will wait any longer.



I was born post film era but have shot a Nikon FG for a while now. Sadly it has died on me recently and is not worth repairing, but wow do I love shooting with it! (Silver and Black for me)


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## Derrel (Dec 15, 2013)

cgw said:


> Sorry but I see the Df as an over-priced dud that's testament to Nikon's isolation from its customers and a rapidly evolving camera market. It should have recaptured the size, simplicity and ergonomics of the FM/FE series. Instead we got an expensive, misshaped brick. So much for the "pure photography" malarkey.



Your constant anti-Nikon shilling here is amusing. Of course you'd say it sucks...it seems like you're payed to spread anti-Nikon everything here; anti-Nikon financial report alarmist posts; anti-Nikon this, anti-Nikon that. Again, amusing stuff cgw! Keep spewing it out! "rapidly evolving camera market". Hilarious chit! Yeah...riiight...the camera market's not rapidly doing ANYTHING. But it does sound awesome when you paint the picture!

I love the oxymoronic concept of a "simple" d-slr. You want "simple" in a d-slr that has the modern-day equivalent of a _built-in digital darkroom and a built-in continuous supply of film?_. Hilarious! Next up: cgw criticizing Chevy's new 2014 Corvette because it's not as mechanically simple as a Model-T Ford was.


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## robbins.photo (Dec 15, 2013)

Derrel said:


> cgw said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry but I see the Df as an over-priced dud that's testament to Nikon's isolation from its customers and a rapidly evolving camera market. It should have recaptured the size, simplicity and ergonomics of the FM/FE series. Instead we got an expensive, misshaped brick. So much for the "pure photography" malarkey.
> ...



The anti-nikon this and that stuff is fun, but I really enjoy his anti-nikon no idea because I've never seen it but going to rail on it anyway posts.  Those never cease to make me giggle.


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## cgw (Dec 15, 2013)

Derrel said:


> cgw said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry but I see the Df as an over-priced dud that's testament to Nikon's isolation from its customers and a rapidly evolving camera market. It should have recaptured the size, simplicity and ergonomics of the FM/FE series. Instead we got an expensive, misshaped brick. So much for the "pure photography" malarkey.
> ...




"_anti-Nikon shilling" 

_As hilarious as it is nonsensical.


How's about those Df pre-orders and sales? 

Got to play with one last week. It's a dud.


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## Derrel (Dec 15, 2013)

I love how a certain *vhe *describes the Nikon Df as "expensive". Ummm...I consider this "expensive" Canon EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera (Body Only) 5253B002 B&H Photo

Lemme see...18.1 megapixel sensor for six thousand seven hundred ninety-nine US dollars....hmmm

versus 16.2 megapixel sensor camera for two thousand seven hundred forty-six dollars and ninety-five cents...that means the Nikon Df is $4,052.05 LESS expensive....huh....

Seems like the shills who get payed to promote other brands of cameras get pretty defensive when they're uncovered...methinks you work for a Toronto-area camera store that does a lot of web promotion...hint,hint...

Pre-orders and sales? Are you kidding? Right now Nikon has the best-performing d-slr in the world in the D800 and D800e...almost all "serious" Nikon users who need the world's best d-slr are already shooting the D800 or D800e. Which is priced $700 less than the Canon 5D-III...Nikon has ALREADY captured the majority of the serious market...18 months ago! NOTHING they make is going to out-sell the world's best d-slr...but then, it hurts to admit the world's best d-slr is made by Nikon, so you probably wouldn't understand the concept at work here...

The Nikon Df was not designed to be "the next Canon Digital Rebel". It was not designed to be "the next $759 Sony body". The Nikon Df was not designed to be a cheap, low profit margin, "*me-too,me-too!*" camera. The Df a camera marketed at a very select audience. Nikon will concede the Digital Rebel sales to Canon. And Nikon is not worried about Sony's flood of non-selling cameras. The Df aimed at a BMW audience, whereas cgw thinks in terms of yet another Hyundai...or maybe a Yugo.


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## robbins.photo (Dec 15, 2013)

cgw said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> > cgw said:
> ...



Oh yes, and I'm sure that we can absolutely count on you to give an unbiased opinion, I mean after all you've always bent over backwards to give Nikon a fair shake thus far.. rotfl.

I could attempt to explain that the DF is meant for a specific market, try to explain profit margins and targeted sales - but don't see a whole lot of point.  We've been down this road before and your almost anti-religious zealotry in hating all things Nikon really make the whole conversation pretty pointless.  I do have to ask though what is the source of all of this hatred of all things Nikon, I mean were you attacked by a Nikon camera as a child?


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## robbins.photo (Dec 15, 2013)

Derrel said:


> I love how a certain *vhe *describes the Nikon Df as "expensive". Ummm...I consider this "expensive" Canon EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera (Body Only) 5253B002 B&H Photo
> 
> Lemme see...18.1 megapixel sensor for six thousand seven hundred ninety-nine US dollars....hmmm
> 
> ...



Ok, while I agree with 99.9% here I must object to your categorization of the Yugo - it does after all represent the pinnacle of Serbo-croatian motorized transport technology.. rotfl


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## formerpro (Dec 15, 2013)

Personally, I like the concept of a DSLR without video capability. I want to take photos, not video. This is one camera, (in FX), I have been waiting for.


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## Coasty (Dec 15, 2013)

Ah, Yugoslavia, makers of fine cars and colorful money. I just wish I enjoyed my time there more than I did.


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## robbins.photo (Dec 15, 2013)

Coasty said:


> Ah, Yugoslavia, makers of fine cars and colorful money. I just wish I enjoyed my time there more than I did.



Well I know I loved my time there, well once we got that little misunderstanding cleared up and I got out of prison.  Ok well really I just switched hotels but boy it sure looked like a Yugoslavian prison.. rotfl


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## Coasty (Dec 15, 2013)

robbins.photo said:


> Coasty said:
> 
> 
> > Ah, Yugoslavia, makers of fine cars and colorful money. I just wish I enjoyed my time there more than I did.
> ...



The one the Serb&#8217;s and Croat&#8217;s could agree on was they didn&#8217;t want me there.


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## Derrel (Dec 15, 2013)

robbins.photo said:
			
		

> Ok, while I agree with 99.9% here I must object to your categorization of the Yugo - it does after all represent the pinnacle of Serbo-croatian motorized transport technology.. rotfl



Well, maybe I should have said that a certain member here comes from a country where Tim Horton's is thought of as "good coffee". lol

I dunno...maybe I'm just spoiled...I payed $5,000 for my Nikon D2x in the spring of 2005...I payed around $3,800 for an original Canon 5D and 24-105-L IS USM boxed kit, back when that was the shizz and Nikon had no full-frame camera...today I'm shooting the D3x which was a $7999.99 camera for most of its production run...maybe I'm not the kind of camera buyer who is interested in yet another $759 camera body...see, cgw resents the Df as "expensive"...I don't see it that way...I see it as a camera with an IMPROVED Nikon D4 sensor, in a smaller,lighter body, for significantly less than half the cost of a single Nikon D4.

Every time a new higher-end Nikon hits the market, there are people who cannot afford it, or are too miserly to open the checkbook, and they come on internet fora and ***** about the high cost of high-end cameras. It's the same old story; people want high-end stuff at cheap, disposable electronic prices. Fantasy-land material.They want a Leica M8 or M9, but want to pay Olympus prices for it. Oh....speaking of expensive...how about that Sony RX-1...a fixed lens camera...one lens for eternity...more-expensive than the Nikon Df...for a hipster pocket camera.

Sony Cyber-Shot DSC-RX1 Full Frame Digital Camera DSC-RX1/B

Huh...


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## TheFantasticG (Dec 15, 2013)

Hoping like Hell that Nikon puts the D4 sensor with the Df engine in the D800... Would put in an order right this very minute despite the HELL that I would catch from the CFO.

I really like the sample images from the Df... But I want that better AF of the D800.


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## robbins.photo (Dec 15, 2013)

Derrel said:


> robbins.photo said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Dagnabbit Derrel!  I just replaced this keyboard, now I've got nose coffee all over it again.. rotflmao!



> I dunno...maybe I'm just spoiled...I payed $5,000 for my Nikon D2x in the spring of 2005...I payed around $3,800 for an original Canon 5D and 24-105-L IS USM boxed kit, back when that was the shizz and Nikon had no full-frame camera...today I'm shooting the D3x which was a $7999.99 camera for most of its production run...maybe I'm not the kind of camera buyer who is interested in yet another $759 camera body...see, cgw resents the Df as "expensive"...I don't see it that way...I see it as a camera with an IMPROVED Nikon D4 sensor, in a smaller,lighter body, for significantly less than half the cost of a single Nikon D4.



Yup, it's all relative.  The DF would be a big investment for me personally, but then again I don't make my living with a camera.  My computer I actually have more money in than a DF - but I never even thought twice about spending that much on a computer because I do make a living with it, at least in part.  



> Every time a new higher-end Nikon hits the market, there are people who cannot afford it, or are too miserly to open the checkbook, and they come on internet fora and ***** about the high cost of high-end cameras. It's the same old story; people want high-end stuff at cheap, disposable electronic prices. Fantasy-land material.They want a Leica M8 or M9, but want to pay Olympus prices for it. Oh....speaking of expensive...how about that Sony RX-1...a fixed lens camera...one lens for eternity...more-expensive than the Nikon Df...for a hipster pocket camera.



Well if there is one truism in life it's that you get what you pay for - now granted I can get by just fine with my little D5100 for now.  But I don't decry Nikon for charging a lot more for a camera like the DF or a D800, etc - I don't drive a mercedes either but I certainly don't hate people who do nor do I despise mercedes for making a fine luxury automobile that happens to be priced out of my reach.  To me that sort of thinking just makes no sense.


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## cgw (Dec 15, 2013)

_Pre-orders and sales? Are you kidding? Right now Nikon has the best-performing d-slr in the world in the D800 and D800e...almost all "serious" Nikon users who need the world's best d-slr are already shooting the D800 or D800e. Which is priced $700 less than the Canon 5D-III...Nikon has ALREADY captured the majority of the serious market...18 months ago! NOTHING they make is going to out-sell the world's best d-slr...but then, it hurts to admit the world's best d-slr is made by Nikon, so you probably wouldn't understand the concept at work here...
_

Nikon shareholders seem to think Nikon should be making cameras that sell. Chronic innumeracy aside, you should weigh that occasionally between rants. The Df landed with a dull thud. Pre-order and sales reports aren't pretty. Let's see how things stand over the next two quarters.


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## robbins.photo (Dec 15, 2013)

> Nikon shareholders seem to think Nikon should be making cameras that sell. Chronic innumeracy aside, you should weigh that occasionally between rants. The Df landed with a dull thud. Pre-order and sales reports aren't pretty. Let's see how things stand over the next two quarters.



You know you can keep beating this drum as much as you want, truth is Nikon made more money in the first quarter of this year than most business make in 10 years.  You know it, it's been presented to you time and time again.  Ignoring facts doesn't change them.  Yes, stock prices go up and down.  Profit margins are affected by many things, including in this case the strength of the yen.  But to claim that a company that makes hundreds of millions year after year in profit is on the brink of collapse?  Sorry, but that just defies all logic and common sense.

But again, this has been covered, over and over again.  The real question here is why you seem to hate Nikon with such a passion, I mean you could certainly make the exact same nonsensical claims in regards to Canon but I don't see you doing that so I have to wonder what your malfunction is when it comes to Nikon.


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## cgw (Dec 15, 2013)

_You know you can keep beating this drum as much as you want, truth is Nikon made more money in the first quarter of this year than most business make in 10 years.

_Guessing Forbes and the WSJ aren't regular reads? I'm just not seeing Nikon as innovation-driven any longer. Canon isn't in any better shape. The Df is a classic "design by committee" product. What got me was that a camera with a killer low-light capability sensor didn't have a viewfinder eyepiece blind for night shots. Optional focus screens? No dice. The teensy pull-up mode dial is just poor design. Check one out sometime.


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## robbins.photo (Dec 15, 2013)

cgw said:


> _You know you can keep beating this drum as much as you want, truth is Nikon made more money in the first quarter of this year than most business make in 10 years.
> 
> _Guessing Forbes and the WSJ aren't regular reads? I'm just not seeing Nikon as innovation-driven any longer. Canon isn't in any better shape. The Df is a classic "design by committee" product. What got me was that a camera with a killer low-light capability sensor didn't have a viewfinder eyepiece blind for night shots. Optional focus screens? No dice. The teensy pull-up mode dial is just poor design. Check one out sometime.



Right, so were all going to sell off our DSLR's and buy the exact same mirrorless job you run around with even though it doesn't even remotely fit most of our needs because you read Forbes.. rotflmao.  Ok, as usual we have reached the point of futility and this conversation has become fruitless.  Me personally I'd be happy as a clam if I owned a company making hundreds of millions of dollars a year, and I would be seriously worried about any one said such a company was not a success.  I would think that anyone silly enough to make such a claim either has a major ax to grind or is trying to sell magazines, or maybe both.  As for the rest, well I guess we won't get a straight answer out of you as to why you have such a huge chip on your shoulder about Nikon - but I guess it scarcely matters at this stage.


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## Derrel (Dec 15, 2013)

Lack of a viewfinder eyepiece blind...oh, you mean like Canon has lacked on most all of its cameras? Oh, wait...bad example. Lack of interchangeable focusing screens? That means the camera is better sealed against dust, and the screen has much less chance of its latch coming un-done under heavy use or in harsh operating environments... the vast,vast, vaaaaast majority of single lens reflex cameras have long had permanent, non-user changeable viewfinder screens. Nice try cgw, but a couple of minor nits you try so desperately to make into huge issues = massive failboat on your part.

It's true...people are not beating down the doors to pre-order a $2,749 camera...as you should know, the biggest sellers in the d-slr market are the LOW-end models, like the Canon Rebel T4i and the Nikon D3100--meaning OLDER, discontinued, bargain basement models. Those are what are called low-profit, mass-market cameras. The Df has the same weather sealing as the D800. It has a shutter rated to 50% more cycles than Canon's 6D, or most of the APS-C cameras that bargain-hunters want. If Nikon wanted to make a low-proft margin, ugly, plastic camera, they would have copied the Canon Rebel line. Higher-priced cameras are not the mass-market big sellers targeted at MWAC's and wanna-be pros or weekend warriors. It's amazing that a guy who constantly insinuates that he's smarter than anybody here in terms of financials cannot seem to grasp the idea and the total,long-term value of "halo" products, and how they can hugely boost overall company profitability and how they influence customer loyalty.

But yeah, I get where "some people" are coming from. They cannot afford to buy higher-end, pro-grade bodies. They shoot the cheaper stuff. They drink the cheaper beer. They buy junk-grade coffee, like Folgers or Tim Horton's. They buy the 18-55 and 55-200mm kit zooms,at first. They secretly dream of owning the halo products, some day; the D3x, the D4, the D800, the 24-70 AF-S, the 200-400 VR, the 200mm f/2, the 300mm f/2.8, the 500mm VR, the 600mm f/4............... Hey, guess what? THOSE items do not sell very fast either! Nikon maybe oughtta' get rid of all that high-end crap and start making cameras and lenses to compete in the market based on PRICE ALONE, like Sony does!


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## robbins.photo (Dec 15, 2013)

Derrel said:


> Nikon maybe oughtta' get rid of all that high-end crap and start making cameras and lenses to compete in the market based on PRICE ALONE, like Sony does!



Derrel, that's just silly.  What they should do is stop making DSLR's all together and start making cell phones, since everyone knows that's the only kind of camera that will exist 3-5 years from now.  rotflmao


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## Coasty (Dec 15, 2013)

robbins.photo said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> > Nikon maybe oughtta' get rid of all that high-end crap and start making cameras and lenses to compete in the market based on PRICE ALONE, like Sony does!
> ...



Seems silly I know, but I can imagine the members of the professional portrait painter&#8217;s guild saying the same thing about cameras 180 years ago.


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## globeglimpser (Dec 16, 2013)

Hating a brand is as, if not more foolish than brand loyalty.

Everyone has different needs and different valuation principles. I prefer shooting with my Film Camera (which just died, RIP) and know that this would come through with a DF. The joy of using the camera, its elegant design and its nostalgia-creating layout is important to me and others and is why Nikon knew that it could price the camera this high. I don't think this product is about sales or profit, but about rewarding those who use D4's and D800's professionally with a hobbyist camera. And for those who are purely in it for the hobby like me, this camera once bought, will make you forget about specs and new cameras, and let you enjoy and concentrate on photography.

I was very enticed by Sony's offerings but since I do wildlife photography as well as street stuff, Nikon is still my way forward.

Use whatever system gives you what you want but don't bash other systems. It comes across as ignorant and arrogant.


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## TheLost (Dec 16, 2013)

cgw said:


> The Df landed with a dull thud. Pre-order and sales reports aren't pretty. Let's see how things stand over the next two quarters.



Not sure where you are getting your data... But at my local 'higher end' camera stores (aka.. not best buy) the DF is a good selling item.  They don't crank out DF's like they do D3200's, and my local store is selling every single one that comes in (there is a waiting list currently).

T.Hogan has said the same thing recently:


> _[talking about the DF] as people have come to grips with what it is and isn't it's continuing to move off dealer shelves at a reasonable clip. I expect it to be in short supply through the end of December, and maybe well into early 2014, as well._


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## robbins.photo (Dec 16, 2013)

TheLost said:


> Not sure where you are getting your data... But at my local 'higher end' camera stores (aka.. not best buy) the DF is a good selling item. They don't crank out DF's like they do D3200's, and my local store is selling every single one that comes in (there is a waiting list currently).
> 
> T.Hogan has said the same thing recently:
> 
> ...



So, what your saying is that I would be completely justified in doing an "I told you so" dance?  Rotfl


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## cgw (Dec 16, 2013)

TheLost said:


> cgw said:
> 
> 
> > The Df landed with a dull thud. Pre-order and sales reports aren't pretty. Let's see how things stand over the next two quarters.
> ...



 For the record, here's the entire quote from Hogan:

_When the Df first came out I wrote that it wasn't a sellout. It certainly wasn't an instant sellout, but it's also not produced in huge quantities, and as people have come to grips with what it is and isn't it's continuing to move off dealer shelves at a reasonable clip. I expect it to be in short supply through the end of December, and maybe well into early 2014, as well.  

_Monthly production is, according to Hogan, around half the number of D800s(i.e., 7,000+/-). There's a problem for dealers who have had to take Df kits with few if any body-only units available. As such it's a pricey package. They're not flying off shelves in Toronto and some stores did sell out their small initial allotments. Waiting lists apparently cleared fast and aren't refreshing all that fast. D800s still, and probably will continue to move faster.

So far, it's anecdotes at ten paces, right? We'll see where it stands in 90 days.

Hogan's ambivalent review seems consistent with what I've heard so far from anyone who's shot with it.


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## SEMiller (Dec 16, 2013)

Derrel said:


> They buy junk-grade coffee, like Tim Horton's.


/

Now hold on just one doggone second... Now I'm not from the great white north, but what's your beef about Tim Horton's coffee?


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## Derrel (Dec 16, 2013)

Look and learn... Top 20 Best-Selling Cars In America - September 2013 - GOOD CAR BAD CAR

You wanted a Toyota Camry...but got a Dodge Charger instead...time to start spreading the negative FUD or fear, uncertainty, and doubt..like some people basically always do when it's anything related to Nikon.


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## robbins.photo (Dec 16, 2013)

SEMiller said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> > They buy junk-grade coffee, like Tim Horton's.
> ...



Don't mind Derrel.  He just has this thing about coffee you can stand a fork up in.. lol


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## TheLost (Dec 16, 2013)

First...  I'm a Dunkin'D man myself, but that doesn't stop me from hitting a T.Horten's the second i cross the border.

Second... Derrel! OMG!!! The Toyota Camry is outselling the BMW3 nearly four-to-one!!!  The BMW 3 is a failure!!!


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## Derrel (Dec 16, 2013)

TheLost said:
			
		

> >SNIP>>>>OMG!!! The Toyota Camry is outselling the BMW3 nearly four-to-one!!!  The BMW 3 is a failure!!!



Exactly the point. We've got somebody with an axe to grind because a camera looks boxy, retro, and is not what 'he' thinks looks good, and people are not rushing by the hundreds of thousands to pre-order it in the weeks right before Christmas, so, ergo...it's a turd. You know, in the same way a BMW 3 series is a sales turd, against, you know, the Toyota Camry...


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## runnah (Dec 16, 2013)

TheLost said:


> First...  I'm a Dunkin'D man myself, but that doesn't stop me from hitting a T.Horten's the second i cross the border.  Second... Derrel! OMG!!! The Toyota Camry is outselling the BMW3 nearly four-to-one!!!  The BMW 3 is a failure!!!



Please, the DF is more like the PT Cruiser of the camera world.


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## TheLost (Dec 17, 2013)

runnah said:


> Please, the DF is more like the PT Cruiser of the camera world.



whoa... whoa.. whoah!! Now that is just plain insulting..  I'd say the DF is maybe the Saab of the camera world (ugly, not quite right.. but if somebody gave you one you'd still play with it).   It does not deserve (nor does anything) to be compared to a PT Cruiser.


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## pixmedic (Dec 17, 2013)

TheLost said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> > Please, the DF is more like the PT Cruiser of the camera world.
> ...



Sounds like a girl i dated once. 
Saab's are fun!


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## runnah (Dec 17, 2013)

pixmedic said:


> TheLost said:
> 
> 
> > runnah said:
> ...




Was her ignition in a weird hard to find spot too?


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## pixmedic (Dec 17, 2013)

runnah said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> > TheLost said:
> ...



yea...
and you had to really work the stick to get her in gear...
but once you got her going...
she could go for hours.
good on any terrain. 
never stalled.


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