# Need help and advice with studio lighting



## missymarie (Apr 25, 2012)

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## cgipson1 (Apr 25, 2012)

Do you even know how to use flash?

The cheap stuff like Cowboy Studio is a total waste of time.. as is continuous lighting of any sort (unless you spend some real money on it)


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## 2WheelPhoto (Apr 25, 2012)

$200 lighting budget?  

2 decent light stands and modifiers will cost more than that. Not to mention triggers and maybe a few lights


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## 2WheelPhoto (Apr 25, 2012)

Oh and i forgot studio lighting and studio lighting advanced classes or such


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## cgipson1 (Apr 25, 2012)

The cheapest you could buy decent gear would be around $450!!!   (and that is just two lights, and gear.. no backgrounds or stands)! $200.... NO WAY! You could only buy junk at that price... and with Junk, the chances of you being able to do a decent job drop drastically. I suspect that even with good gear, you lack the knowledge and experience to be able to pull this off... just based on the questions you ask!


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## Bitter Jeweler (Apr 25, 2012)




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## 2WheelPhoto (Apr 25, 2012)

$200 bux or natural light for pro grade photos. No wonder everyone is a photographer


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## mjhoward (Apr 25, 2012)

I'd say... find another job.  If they are giving you a $200 budget to buy equipment for something like that, then I can only imagine how much they've devalued the work and skill that goes in afterwards.


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## missymarie (Apr 25, 2012)

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## cgipson1 (Apr 25, 2012)

missymarie said:


> wow.  i am seriously sad for joining this forum....who knew people could be so rude, cgipson1, and 2wheelphoto....
> thought I could get some real advice.  i own about $10,000 in canon equipment, but like i said, shoot strictly in natural light.
> It is true, I don't know much about lighting, that is why I came here asking.
> I am working on a very strict budget for this particular job, came about it because of a referral. Hoping to help out this start up company.



That WAS real advice! Not trying to be rude.. just pointing out the facts! You cannot buy decent gear to do this.. for $200. And it is obvious you know very little about lighting... based on your question, so how are you possibly going to do this with any level of competency? (especially with minimal gear?)

And we see questions like this all the time... from "PRO's" that only shoot "Natural light" (when they mean ambient light.. since ALL light is natural!).


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## missymarie (Apr 25, 2012)

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## cgipson1 (Apr 25, 2012)

missymarie said:


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My point was that you CANNOT do this decently for $200.00! 

Adorama flashpoint 320's are $100 each (cheapest light I would recommend) You could get some speedlight cheaper... but they would be much more difficult to use, especially with little experience. Stands... $50 each.. umbrellas and adapters... decent ones... another $100... so maybe $400 minimum!

But you still have to know how to use them!


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## missymarie (Apr 25, 2012)

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## cgipson1 (Apr 25, 2012)

missymarie said:


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So why do you accuse me of being rude? Both here and in PM's? Trust me.. you have not seen rude! This is one of the reasons I normally refuse to even try to help people like yourself.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Apr 25, 2012)

rude!?


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## CCericola (Apr 25, 2012)

You might be able to rent what you need. There is no reason to buy equipment for a one time gig.

Sent from my iPad using PhotoForum


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## missymarie (Apr 25, 2012)

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## missymarie (Apr 25, 2012)

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## brush (Apr 25, 2012)

have you considered renting gear? That's the only way you'll have a chance for gear "worth using" on that kind of budget. That, or ask your client to tack a zero onto the end of that figure. And you'll still need to get a good understanding of how to work with it. It's not exactly plug & play.

That being said, I do have a cowboy studio lightstand & umbrella, and I think you can get through a shoot with that stuff in a pinch. Don't get me wrong, they suck, the screw holes will strip, the cold shoe will probably drop your flash at some point, but if you can't spend a couple grand on studio lights, it'll work. Get 1 stand, 1 umbrella, some reflectors, a Yongnuo speedlite that'll work with your cameras built in wireless triggering (I hope you have a camera that can do that!) and prove us all wrong.

Please understand, this forum is notoriously NOT warm & fuzzy. But it is very helpful. Come in here with a very open mind and absolutely no defensiveness, and you can learn a lot from these cats. I know I have. Being too confrontational is going to do you absolutely no good. Next time someone says you're in over your head, try "oh wow, it's so expensive. What other options are out there?" instead of "you're all jerks and I'm sorry I ever came here."


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## missymarie (Apr 25, 2012)

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## Mach0 (Apr 25, 2012)

missymarie said:
			
		

> Apparently I should come here with my extra thick skin on.



Highly suggested.


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## Helen B (Apr 25, 2012)

Could you do this with natural light and modifiers - mostly black, white and silver cards? What you are shooting does not need flash, nor does it need particularly bright continuous light. I shoot products commercially (at the four-figure per image level), and much of the time all the light I use is provided by four 120 W household incandescent lamps (ie normal lightbulbs). I also use plenty of C-stands, a studio camera stand and a live view tethering system. The photographer I share the studio with does not use my expensive grip equipment, but is content to prop white and silver cards (bought from an art supply shop, not fancy photo reflectors) in place with boxes and stepped blocks of wood (1-2-3s). You seem to realise that you need to know about light, and that is the most important thing here. You will be able to use very simple, low cost equipment.


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## missymarie (Apr 26, 2012)

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## Derrel (Apr 26, 2012)

mjhoward said:


> I'd say... find another job.  If they are giving you a $200 budget to buy equipment for something like that, then I can only imagine how much they've devalued the work and skill that goes in afterwards.



A $200 budget to BUY needed lighting equipment. And you already own over $10,000 in Canon equipment. And yet, you have no lighting gear,whatsoever. Huh.

As far as a background "stand", forget that on a $200 budget...go to HOme Depot and buy a ling length of closet rod (wooden dowelling, about 1 and 1/4 inch in diameter) and some hooks or brackets...you will have to MAKE a background support. Screw-in J-shaped hooks, or eye bolts and cotton rope or wire will work fine. Seriously. Cotton muslin??? Uh...think K-mart and bedsheets, or maybe Goodwill and used drapes or curtains.

Lights? Cheap monolights with a cheap softbox will do okay for this type of simple shooting. ELmer's foam board reflector cards at $3.99 each from WalMart. Studio or other flash can be fired through white cloth stretched tightly on wooden or PVC frames...this is called scrim lighting.

This is a really low-rent outfit. Take their $200 and spend 80% of it on lighting stuff, and the remainder on CHEAP background stuff.


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## Helen B (Apr 26, 2012)

I hope that you appreciate that it is quite difficult for us to give you the best advice, and I think that you should go easy on the people who have given replies that you see as 'rude'. We don't know how much you know about light (not the same as not knowing about lights), or what the natural light in your studio is, or what the studio walls look like. Those things are just for starters. We also have different levels of experience, and we don't really know what your experience is. All we know is that you have taken a real low budget job (nothing wrong with that whatsoever) and that you have spent $10,000 on Canon gear - which means nothing, to be honest.

The guy I share the studio with started in commercial photography in what might be further back from where you are now. He wasn't a photographer, but he believed that he could do it just as well as the big guys. He used stands made from concrete-filled paint cans and bought the cheapest, most basic camera with two lenses. Forty years, and tens of millions of dollars later he is still using them. He's one of the original Canon Explorers of Light, and is very well known in the business. Irving Penn didn't always use background stands and fancy lights - he taped background paper to a wall and shot in natural light (ie light from the sun, just to be clear). The point of all this rambling is that you can shoot in natural light and you don't need expensive equipment for what you are doing.

If you do use continuous artificial light you may have to block out the natural light to avoid colour balance problems.

If you are using natural light bear in mind that if you start off with a soft source, a hard silver reflector (eg card with a silver face) is usually the best thing to use. White reflectors are good for softening hard sources.


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## 12sndsgood (Apr 26, 2012)

missymarie said:


> wow. i am seriously sad for joining this forum....who knew people could be so rude, cgipson1, and 2wheelphoto....
> thought I could get some real advice. i own about $10,000 in canon equipment, but like i said, shoot strictly in natural light.
> It is true, I don't know much about lighting, that is why I came here asking.
> I am working on a very strict budget for this particular job, came about it because of a referral. Hoping to help out this start up company.




ive gone back and forth with cgibson1 on several occasions. but i'm with him on this one. he asked you wether you new flash and then preceeded to tell you that that budget is low.  he's right cowboy stuff is junk. I made the mistake of buying some of there stands and they are absolute garbage. one stand broke on my second shoot. If you a pro take the $200 your getting and add in your own money to it and buy at least some half way decent gear or your just going to be throwing that money away.

And the reason why people get so offended with this type post is that you come in here telling everyone you have a paying job for something you admit you don't know how to do. It's nice being able to help out a new company starting out but you need to be qualified to do the job your being paid to do. If you don't know how to properly light don't take a job that requires lighting. go out, buy a lighting setup. learn how to light properly then accept lighting specific jobs.


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## Balmiesgirl (Apr 26, 2012)

I don't feel like people are being rude here..... It's a taste of reality. Equipment is expensive! 

If you are an awesome " natural light" photographer then stick with what you know. Don't learn on a paying client!!!
It might also help to educate your client on realistic prices. Those who have never needed a service like this before probably just don't know what kind of prices to expect. ( you also can't expect your client to buy/ pay for your equipment. ) The cost of equipment is generally spread out over a lot of clients and usually years of use. Equipment is an investment YOU make in your business. If you want to do this kind of work... Bite the bullet and invest in the right equipment to do the job. It's your reputation on the line each time you take on a job you cannot handle. 
If its not the kind of work you plan to persue then rent the equipment you need or decline the job.

Not trying to be rude, and hope you don't take it that way.


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## Village Idiot (Apr 26, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


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$100 umbrella? **** that; I paid a little over that for a 22" beauty dish.

How about a 320m, stand and softbox for $160? That's a lot less than $400 for one light, stand, and umbrella.
Flashpoint II FP320SB2 Monolight Kit, 150 Watt Second FP320SB2


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## 2WheelPhoto (Apr 26, 2012)

I can start a fire with two sticks too


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## o hey tyler (Apr 26, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> Do you even know how to use flash?
> 
> The cheap stuff like Cowboy Studio is a total waste of time.. as is continuous lighting of any sort (unless you spend some real money on it)



Continuous lighting is fine, and cheaper for this application. She's shooting stationary apparel, not portraiture. If she were shooting models that moved around even slightly, it would be an issue. But with a tripod and continuous lights, they should turn out just fine. 

I always, always, always suggest people stay away from Continuous lights when shooting people, but if the subject doesn't move, who cares?


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## cgipson1 (Apr 26, 2012)

Village Idiot said:


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That would be $100 for two umbrellas and two adapters (if needed) although admittedly with the monos, the adapters would not be needed. Can you get cheaper... yes... are they worth it, NO!  I qwas pricing for two of everything.. if it wasn't obvious....


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## cgipson1 (Apr 26, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


> cgipson1 said:
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I agree.. but why waste money on something with such limited application? For a little more, you can get gear that will do whatever you need to do.....


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## jwbryson1 (Apr 26, 2012)

2WheelPhoto said:


> $200 lighting budget?
> 
> 2 decent light stands and modifiers will cost more than that. Not to mention triggers and maybe a few lights



Can she rent equipment for $200?


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## KmH (Apr 26, 2012)

C-stands, like Helen B mentioned,  are not inexpensive - Interfit INT308 C-Stand with Boom Arm 

Nor are camera stands - Manfrotto 806 Mini Salon 190 Camera Stand with Counter-Balanced Cross Arm (Black)


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## Helen B (Apr 26, 2012)

KmH said:


> C-stands, like Helen B mentioned,  are not inexpensive - Interfit INT308 C-Stand with Boom Arm
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> Nor are camera stands - Manfrotto 806 Mini Salon 190 Camera Stand with Counter-Balanced Cross Arm (Black)



The Mini Salon? Oh please. I use a Super Salon.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Apr 26, 2012)

jwbryson1 said:


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Wouldn't you think for the length of her job rent/shipping would far exceed $200 for any decent equipment at all?


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## Mike_E (Apr 26, 2012)

Marie, listen to Helen and go with reflectors, gobos and some clamplights.

Darrel was right too, at home depot you can get a 10 foot length of 3/4 inch electrical conduit (metal) for about $4 which is plenty long and sturdy enough to hang a background off of and sheets, drapes and the like will do just fine for a background.  You don't need expensive light stands to hold up a background either, chances are that you could pick up a pair of 9' cheapies at your local supplier for $60 if you ask nicely.

The reason I chimed in on this, since what I've mentioned has been said before, is that learning on the job is just bad business and jumping off into strobe lighting would be just that.  With continuous lighting you'd be using light in a way that you already know and are far more likely to do a good job of it.

Do pick up a strobe or twelve, they are wonderful pieces of equipment but learn to use them on your own time.


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## Mach0 (Apr 26, 2012)

Mike_E said:
			
		

> Marie, listen to Helen and go with reflectors, gobos and some clamplights.
> 
> Darrel was right too, at home depot you can get a 10 foot length of 3/4 inch electrical conduit (metal) for about $4 which is plenty long and sturdy enough to hang a background off of and sheets, drapes and the like will do just fine for a background.  You don't need expensive light stands to hold up a background either, chances are that you could pick up a pair of 9' cheapies at your local supplier for $60 if you ask nicely.
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And get a tripod. Use a longer exposure. Handheld with continuous lighting might be hard without cranking up the ISO.


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## Village Idiot (Apr 26, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


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And why not? If they're in a studio where they're not constantly being setup and tore down, the chance of them breaking is slim to none. There are a lot of resources about DIY lighting and doing it on the cheap. Just because this person doesn't have $2,500 to spend on two lights and a pack doesn't mean that there's not any other option out there for them.


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## CCericola (Apr 26, 2012)

jwbryson1 said:


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Yes, Barrowlenses.com have a 4 light kit with modifiers for $125 for 3 days.


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## cgipson1 (Apr 26, 2012)

Village Idiot said:


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She is the one wanting to be a professional! To me.. that implies professional equipment... not DIY hack jobs!


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## Derrel (Apr 26, 2012)

Bitter Jeweler said:


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A very interesting thread...so far...seems like there's more than one way to skin the proverbial cat, eh? Natural light...inexpensive studioflash units...inexpensive continuous lighting equipment...Home Depot...WalMart...B&H...Adorama...jeeze...

Desk lamps, flood lights, shop lights, Vivitar 285's, old used cheap Speedotron Brown Line flash units, bed sheets, tracing paper, window screens, A-clamps, drinking straw grids, aluminum foil snoots, modeling clay, gaffer's tape,fishing line,paper clips,Super Glue,hot glue,cellophane tape, thread, pipe cleaners, bread ties, Velcro, pieces of white cardboard,tinfoil,juice bags,bubble wrap, bath curtains,styrofoam ice chests...


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## Helen B (Apr 26, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> To me.. that implies professional equipment... not DIY hack jobs!



Here's some of the gear that real New York perfesh'nals use:


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## cgipson1 (Apr 26, 2012)

Helen B said:


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Lol! The major difference is ... you know how to use it!


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## missymarie (Apr 27, 2012)

I think it came out pretty good.  Thanks for everyone's help.


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## Mach0 (Apr 27, 2012)

What did you end up getting?


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