# Really strange question



## Tight Knot (Dec 13, 2010)

Hi all,

Really strange question.
I have been asked to photograph and possibly video a welder whilst he is welding TIG and ARC, so he can use the photographs and video for educational purposes.
The goal is to actually show what the weld looks like while in progress, very up close and personal to the weld.
We have already tried using a video camera with a welders glass over the lens, and the centre came out way too over-exposed and the outside edges were under exposed.
The question also, is can the extreme bright light damage the camera?

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Bruce.


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## Edsport (Dec 13, 2010)

What if you put a piece of glass in the center like a lens from sunglasses to darken the center?


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## Tight Knot (Dec 13, 2010)

Thanks for the idea, but unfortunately, it won't work as it wouldn't be dark enough. The welding glass we used was a #13, the darkest they make.


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## fokker (Dec 13, 2010)

Maybe an infrared camera would be what you need - off the top of my head most of the light from a welding spark is in the UV end, so if you're only seeing in infrared you should be able to see the weld itself better in comparison to the flame - I think.


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## Tight Knot (Dec 13, 2010)

fokker said:


> Maybe an infrared camera would be what you need - off the top of my head most of the light from a welding spark is in the UV end, so if you're only seeing in infrared you should be able to see the weld itself better in comparison to the flame - I think.


Very interesting idea. I'll look into it, and let you know what happens. Thanks.


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## RobNZ (Dec 13, 2010)

Video would be extremely difficult, massive dynamic range. A weld in progress is brighter than the sun, if your eyes are unprotected from an arc flash for a split second you will get local blindness for a few minutes, continous unprotected exposure will lead to arc eye and serious eye damage, so my guess is you could damage your sensor.

For stills, perhaps an extreme HDR shot? Fastest shutter speed available and stopped down to suit the weld, combined with a couple of ND filters if required?


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## KVRNut (Dec 13, 2010)

Try using a pair of stacked circular polorizers against each other along with a ND8 or greater filter.  Try it out by looking at the filament of a halogen light bulb.  If not dark enough, stack another ND filter.


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## Geaux (Dec 13, 2010)

Why not use actual welding #10 glass over your lense?  Amazon.com: Filter Lens, 4 1/2" x 5 1/4" , Shade 10 (FPW1441-0049) Category: Welding Helmets and Glasses: Home Improvement


You can always take a picture of them pretending to weld, and add in the welding lighting in post lol


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## FitzTML (Dec 13, 2010)

Have you looked into solar filters used by astronomers?


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## Tight Knot (Dec 13, 2010)

FitzTML said:


> Have you looked into solar filters used by astronomers?


Now that's a good idea:thumbup:. I will definitely look into that.


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## sobolik (Dec 13, 2010)

Use 1 or more 500 watt shop lights to massively illuminate the work area. Keep the rest of the procedure as you did before (welders glass shield over camera lens)  The solution to this is to get the dark areas lit up as much as possible.  1-3 shop lights is the place to start.

"The question also, is can the extreme bright light damage the camera"  YES with out a doubt but not if you use the welders lens.

Another thing is if the weld melting metal is still washed out overexposed, break off or cut a dime size piece to stick to the original shield to double up the amount of welders shield filtration over the actual white hot weld. You just have to keep the doubled area lined up on the weld center when photographing.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Dec 13, 2010)

Frankly, I don't think you will ever be able to photograph the weld, as it takes place, exposing both the weld AND the surroundings.

To those that say it is possible, I invite you to surf the net and find an example and post it. Both the weld action AND the suroundings.


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## tirediron (Dec 13, 2010)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> Frankly, I don't think you will ever be able to photograph the weld, as it takes place, exposing both the weld AND the surroundings.


 
Bitter's got it in one. The only way you_ might_ be able do this is to shoot one sequence for the arc, and a second for the workpiece. Not sure what sort of filtration you'd need, probably something in the order of a couple of #10s stacked, and even then, shooting the work it is going to be very difficult since the arc is so bright.


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## pgriz (Dec 13, 2010)

tirediron said:


> Bitter Jeweler said:
> 
> 
> > Frankly, I don't think you will ever be able to photograph the weld, as it takes place, exposing both the weld AND the surroundings.
> ...


 
Well, IF you shoot with two cameras, one filtered to show the bright weld, and the other somehow able to show the surrounding detail (maybe through the use of an occluding shadow?), and then the two would be overlaid.... Sounds like a challenging project for a technical keener. I'm too old for this stuff, but there are lots of really bright people on this forum...  Isn't this where Garbz pops up and makes it simple?


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## sobolik (Dec 13, 2010)

pgriz said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> > Bitter Jeweler said:
> ...



You will never "show the weld" in progress  it is too hot and too bright and will always be washed out itself.. All you can attempt to do is brighten everything else to attempt to get closer to the dynamic range of the camera. i.e. prevent underexposing the surroundings.

welding - Google Search
http://www.nr.edu/welding/images/process2_lrg.jpg
http://www.nr.edu/welding/images/process1_lrg.jpg
http://www.nr.edu/welding/images/process3_lrg.jpg


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## Bitter Jeweler (Dec 13, 2010)

Tight Knot said:


> The goal is to actually show what the weld looks like while in progress, very up close and personal to the weld.


:meh:


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## adversus (Dec 13, 2010)

I was curious about this as I read the thread, this is the best example I could find after 20 minutes of Googling.

http://www.pbase.com/ssim/image/65397651.jpg


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## RobNZ (Dec 13, 2010)

/\/\Thats the opposite of welding, thats a gas axe, cutting torch and nowhere near as bright as the arc from a welder!!!

I could try this out, I have an arc welder, would just have to teach the wife how to strike an arc and hold it, but instinct tells me it will be close to impossible, lol, might be easier to teach her how to press the shutter release..........


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