# new camera help



## Angel52 (Jun 28, 2014)

Hello,I am a new user here, I am going to buy a new camera but confused between Canon 60D and Canon 600D with 18-135mm lens..will be grateful if youguys help me


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## robbins.photo (Jun 28, 2014)

Angel52 said:


> Hello,I am a new user here, I am going to buy a new camera but confused between Canon 60D and Canon 600D with 18-135mm lens..will be grateful if youguys help me



Greetings Angel, and welcome to the forum.

The Canon 600d is a designation that Canon uses when selling the camera overseas, particularly in Europe.  In the United States the 600d is actually marketed as the T3I.

In general the T3I is more or less an entry level model from Canon, whereas the 60d is geared more towards your more serious hobbiest crowd.  The 60d will shoot faster (5.5 frames per second as opposed to the T3I's 3.7 frames per second), the 60d is weather sealed and it also has a better autofocus system.

As far as image quality, they are pretty close to the same.  The T3I's sell for a lot less than the 60d.


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## Angel52 (Jun 29, 2014)

robbins.photo said:


> Angel52 said:
> 
> 
> > Hello,I am a new user here, I am going to buy a new camera but confused between Canon 60D and Canon 600D with 18-135mm lens..will be grateful if youguys help me
> ...


 Okay i got your point,so it won't make much difference in tge image quality right?moreover it is gonna be my first slr, so i think i should go for 600D, any suggestions?


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## Raj_55555 (Jun 29, 2014)

Any particular reason you want to go with Canon? I am not against it mind you (in fact I use one myself), I just feel that in that budget the D5100 would be a much better buy.. better ISO performance, more dynamic range, better AF (I think) etc.. A D5200 would be even better at almost the same price. 
The only reason I can think for buying the canon is if you are planning to use older lenses and want to autofocus with them, or if you are buying used and have a good deal on it. 

So again, any specific reason you want to go with Canon?


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## robbins.photo (Jun 29, 2014)

Angel52 said:


> robbins.photo said:
> 
> 
> > Angel52 said:
> ...



Well if your planning on shooting something where you want to shoot a lot of frames quickly, like say sports then the 60d might be a better option, but for the most part if your just looking at shooting portraits, landscapes and such the T3I would probably be more cost effective.

As Raj mentioned Nikon also makes some really outstanding cameras, for the money I think the D3200 or a D5200 would actually be a better choice for most than a Canon T3I, better image quality and better low light abilities.  I think on the whole you get more for your money with Nikon and have better upgrade options available wiith the Nikon lineup until you get into the very expensive models ($1000 and up).  Then the differences between the two really aren't as noticeable anymore.


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## TCampbell (Jun 29, 2014)

Raj_55555 said:


> Any particular reason you want to go with Canon? I am not against it mind you (in fact I use one myself), I just feel that in that budget the D5100 would be a much better buy.. better ISO performance, more dynamic range, better AF (I think) etc.. A D5200 would be even better at almost the same price.
> The only reason I can think for buying the canon is if you are planning to use older lenses and want to autofocus with them, or if you are buying used and have a good deal on it.
> 
> So again, any specific reason you want to go with Canon?



???

That's a bit nonsensical.  We can "debate" the Canon vs. Nikon but in general, no... one is not necessarily "better" than the other.  Any camera made today has pretty fabulous ISO and dynamic range and the differences are nits unworthy of significant debate.  They all come with trade-offs.  

Nikon D5xxx series bodies don't have in-body focus motors, which limits which of the Nikon lenses you can use if you want to take advantage of auto-focus.  And considering DSLR cameras today don't have split-prism focus aids in the viewfinder (not to mention smaller and dimmer viewfinders) as compared to their SLR ancestors of the 35mm film days, you definitely DO want to use auto-focus as a matter of routine use.

All cameras sold today are extremely good... you'd have to go shopping for a used camera body (something that hasn't been in production for several years) before you'd really start noticing any difference in image quality.

If dynamic range and ISO performance are really that big of a deal... you'd want to be looking at camera bodies with "full frame" sensors.  But that shifts the price upward dramatically... a Canon 6D or Nikon D610 would be "entry level" full-frame bodies.  But a D610 is $1900 for a "body only" and that's on the current rebate offering.  The Canon 6D is $1700 for the "body only" also due to their current rebate offering (these seem to have almost continuous rebates being offered.)  I would not normally suggest either of these cameras to someone just starting out with a first camera if money is a decision factor.  You can do far more to improve the look of photography by taking that extra $1000+ difference in price and investing it a some good glass.


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## Raj_55555 (Jun 29, 2014)

TCampbell said:


> That's a bit nonsensical.


That was a  bit uncalled for Tim. Now I don't want to start an argument  and I do  agree with almost everything you've said, but had you actually  read my  entire post instead of just the last line you probably  wouldn't have  started with that negative adjective.



TCampbell said:


> We can "debate" the Canon vs. Nikon but in   general, no... one is not necessarily "better" than the other.


I never debated Canon vs Nikon, I debated <a specific Canon> vs   <a specific Nikon>. Again if you read my entire post, you'd find   that I am a canon user.


TCampbell said:


> Nikon D5xxx series bodies don't have in-body focus motors, which limits   which of the Nikon lenses you can use if you want to take advantage of   auto-focus.


Again something I mentioned in my post, I asked him to get the canon if  he wants to autofocus with the older lenses. Also I never asked him to  get the Nikon, rather the reason why he wants to go with the canon.



TCampbell said:


> If dynamic range and ISO performance are really  that big of a deal...  you'd want to be looking at camera bodies with  "full frame" sensors.


Nope! I mean yes, nothing beats an FF but that doesn't mean  ISO  performance doesn't matter in DX cameras. At least in my experience the  difference between a clean image at ISO 800 vs at ISO 1200 does matter.  D5100 has better ISO  performance, better dynamic range, faster  autofocus, faster fps and  arguably(as per DXOmark) a much better image  quality than the 600D and all that at a  cheaper price. D5200 is in a  different league altogether. 

I am sure any  good photographer can work around all this, but it still  doesn't make sense  to me to buy a relatively lower performing camera at  a higher price if  there is no upside to it; which in this case is the  focus motor of the 600D.


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## ibrahimbeno (Jun 29, 2014)

hi Angel52, welcome to forum, hihihihi i'm new user also.

The DSLR camera Type need marry with Your position in photography world.

wrong choice mean wrong investment and big lost of $ and finally wrong idea about photography world ( like you said ....ahh DSLR cameras are not for me).

so ask your self some question :
-did i touch a DSLR camera before, did i use it ?? i'm a beginners !!! or you was have a DSLR camera and you want make upgrade now.
-what is my budget limit?
-why i need that DSLR camera (normal use or pro)?

please note: The DSLR Cameras are nothing without their lenses, so you should make certain that your budget allows you to have at least one lens, a bag (to protect your camera when you travel or don't use it), and a memory card (giving you enough memory to save your images and videos).

so my suggestion is : your first DSLR camera should be Nikon D3200 with 18-55mm lens because it's the best camera for beginner, simple to use, low price, large sensor and more megapixel 24.2 MP, this make it provide better image quality then all Canon camera under 700$, it's contain also guide mode offers beginners help and instruction. + LOW PRICE.
for have a beautiful begin in photography , you need go slow, so you will make a wonderful investment if you buy with Nikon D3200 it's guide Nikon D3200 For dummies, and by time invest in lenses.

hope i help you, you can found more info in the two articles under the comment.


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## TCampbell (Jun 29, 2014)

Raj_55555 said:


> TCampbell said:
> 
> 
> > That's a bit nonsensical.
> ...



If you're reading DxO, I can see how you might get that impression.  I rant on DxO a bit.  Honestly I wish they'd stop publishing those misleading reports.  I have a very low opinion of their competency and find their reports do more harm than good.

DxO doesn't give you "data"... they give you "scores".  

I've used this analogy before.  Suppose you're taking a class and the teacher tells you that one assignment is going to be worth 25% of your final grade (regardless of whether or not you think the weighting on that assignment is appropriate.)  As an outsider who can only see the final grade, we cannot tell how well you did in any specific aspect of the class, because we only get the final grade, and the final grade was 'weighted'.  Except in the case of a class, the teacher would probably divulge how they chose to 'weight' the grade.  What DxO does is more akin to a teacher saying "I plan to 'weight' the grades... but I'm not going to tell you how... it's a secret!"   This is effectively what DxO is doing -- you don't get to see or review images or data.  You only get to see their "score".  Unfortunately DxO refuses to divulge how they come up with that "score" and consider it to be  secret.  I work in the tech industry.  Benchmarks which refuse to fully disclose testing methods and data are not taken seriously.  

If you read sources OTHER than DxO you'll usually see actual sample images as well as representative data (not "scores") which I feel is much more meaningful.  

Here's an example (and if this page comes up correctly for you -- it's a link to the DPreview.com in-depth review of the Nikon D5100) you should see that the dynamic range graph also lists the Canon T3i (aka 600D) as well as the Sony a55.  First... note that they only provide these dynamic range graphs for JPEG (even though we often encourage people to shoot RAW), but second... notice that the lines are all pretty much stacked on top of each other.  Nobody has much of a significant difference.  You can toy with these... for example on the Canon can enable the graph to depict highlight tone priority (HTP) and notice the curve moves a bit (for some reason they don't let us do that with the Nikon -- does the D5100 not offer a similar feature or did they simply leave the data off the report?)

Nikon D5100 In-depth Review: Digital Photography Review

Flip over to the ISO & noise page... also hard to tell them apart:

Nikon D5100 In-depth Review: Digital Photography Review

Keep in mind that this page shows performance of JPEG and lower down it shows RAW.  

In any case... my base point... camera selection based on ISO and dynamic range is not significantly different.  

I have a very difficult time studying this data and making a determination that either camera is better than the other (based on this data).


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## Vince.1551 (Jun 29, 2014)

http://www.dxomark.com/About/What-is-DxOMark2/Test-result-reliability

DXOMark is an accredited lab. Results are simplified for ease of use for mere mortals like us,  I like especially their technique of rating sharpness as compared to the traditional way used by most other test sites.


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## Angel52 (Jun 30, 2014)

This is going to be my first own dslr,i have used Canon 1100d quite a times.The main purpose of buying it is to capture our euro trip,and i need a good quality camera that takes some really good pictures.But aftr reading your comments i am even more confused


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## robbins.photo (Jun 30, 2014)

Angel52 said:


> This is going to be my first own dslr,i have used Canon 1100d quite a times.The main purpose of buying it is to capture our euro trip,and i need a good quality camera that takes some really good pictures.But aftr reading your comments i am even more confused



Angel - don't worry so much about scores and tests and labs and inside baseball stuff.  In your case either the Canon or the Nikon will both give you very good pictures that I'm sure you'll be quite happy with so if you'd prefer to purchase the Canon, by all means purchase the Canon.  I state this as a long time Nikon shooter, btw.

Really for what you describe any entry level DSLR will do the job just fine, so it just comes down to whichever you think will suit your needs and budget the best.  Other than that you'll have to excuse us camera geeks, when given the opportunity we just usually cannot resist the temptation to break out charts and graphs and begin rehasing a lot of stuff that frankly most folks that buy cameras for recreational use could really care less about.

So I'd recommend you take a look at the Canon T3I or the Nikon D3200, if possible hit a camera store or a best buy or even a walmart and try them out yourself.  Either one will suit you needs just fine, I'm sure.


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## Vince.1551 (Jun 30, 2014)

As what Robbins had said. Just grab a cam and start shooting already. Have fun


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## Angel52 (Jul 10, 2014)

Finally i got canon600d....bt i got the 18-55mm lens whereas all my frnds r saying to buy me a prime lens. Is it really required? And can anyone give me some tips to take good pictures please


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## robbins.photo (Jul 10, 2014)

Angel52 said:


> Finally i got canon600d....bt i got the 18-55mm lens whereas all my frnds r saying to buy me a prime lens. Is it really required? And can anyone give me some tips to take good pictures please



The 18-55 will do fine as a start.  The advantage of a prime is that they are sharper, lighter weight and generally fast - meaning they let in a lot of light so they work well even when you don't have a lot of light available.   The disadvantage is that they are a set focal length, so you can't zoom in and out the way you can with a zoom lens.

Me I love primes, I own two (a 50 mm and an 85 mm) - but in some situations a zoom is actually pretty handy to have as well.  For now what I suggest is you just shot with the lens you already have and get a handle on learning the camera and settings, etc - then later on once you get to that point if you feel like you need a prime you can always get one then.


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