# Infrared on digital?



## Meysha (Aug 23, 2005)

Hellooo to all dark side dwellers. :mrgreen:

I really really love all the infrared photos people keep posting, especially the colour ones. :shock: The effect is just amazing.
I'd really love to use some HIE film (i think it's called - that's the infrared stuff isn't it?) But I've got one of those silly Canons that stuffs up the film. :-(

So is it possible to do the same thing on my DSLR? I've heard about these techo IR Filters.... could I just stick one of them on and it'd work? Or would the sensor have to do some techo thing.

As you can see, I really have no idea how IR works.


----------



## terri (Aug 23, 2005)

Those IR filters work to some degree, but then you have this color IR image - not even CLOSE to the ones posted by Jeff Canes who used real color IR film - and you have to desaturate or do something else in PS to try to get it to look like something worth a flip. I've yet to see one I like.  

What I like to recommend to people who have film cams with those IR film counters that can (possibly) cause some fogging on HIE, is the use of pseudo IR film - specifically, the Ilford SFX 200. You can use an inexpensive #25 red filter (much cheaper than those developed for digital cams) and you'll get very passable IR results. And no worries about loading/unloading in total darkness; it handles much easier than true IR.

It's quite cool.


----------



## Meysha (Aug 23, 2005)

Sweet! Thanks so much terri! I'll keep an eye out for that Ilford stuff.
Can you get that developed at a normal lab? or does it have to be sent away somewhere?


----------



## terri (Aug 24, 2005)

Meysha said:
			
		

> Sweet! Thanks so much terri! I'll keep an eye out for that Ilford stuff.
> Can you get that developed at a normal lab? or does it have to be sent away somewhere?


 Yep, a regular pro lab that does B&W should be able to develop that for ya. It's called a "special effect" film (note the tag SFX)  because you can take off the red filter and pretty much shoot normal B&W - or pop it on and get more IR effects, all on the same roll of film. :sun: 

It's been a while since I shot that stuff, but I had no trouble with it. :thumbup:


----------



## mygrain (Aug 24, 2005)

As for IR in digital...I think Hobbes may have linked something a long time ago for an extra goodie patch for Photoshop to simulate the effect...I'll dig around and see if I can find it.

maybe this will tide you over until then...http://www.photoshoptechniques.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1732&highlight=infrared


----------



## mygrain (Aug 24, 2005)

found a version online...link...http://www.outdooreyes.com/photo95.php3


----------



## ksmattfish (Aug 24, 2005)

Actually Kodak color IR is a false color film.  The colors in the photos don't portray reality, and there is no more truth to them than if any photog were to assign a color to invisible IR in Photoshop.    Jeff just takes good pics.

I have seen good IR photographs done with digital cameras, although they may look different from film IR for sure.  I don't like the PS conversions that are supposed to make a regular exposure look like an IR exposure.  IR has properties that aren't easily duplicated in PS.  Both film and digital IR photography is always going to include some artistic license, because we are trying to make the invisible visible.  

I'm sure you can Google "IR photography" and find an article more knowledgable than what I'm going to ramble at you, but here goes...  The visual spectrum goes:  red orange yellow green blue indigo violet.  I was taught "Roy G. Biv" to remember it.  Beyond the visual spectrum on the red end is infrared.  Beyond the visual spectrum on the blue end is ultraviolet.

http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/science/know_l1/emspectrum.html

IR photography (still and motion) uses the near infrared.  Thermal imaging devices use the far infrared.  

http://imagers.gsfc.nasa.gov/ems/infrared.html

IR photography requires an IR light source.  It's not that it sees in the dark; it's that we don't see IR sources in the dark.  The sun is a big IR source.  Most IR video cams have an IR spot light built in.  Electronic flash and artificial lights can be IR light sources.

Some films and many digital sensors are sensitive to IR, as well as the visual spectrum.  IR filters block portions of the visible spectrum, while allowing IR to pass.  A red #25 is about as weak as is normally used for IR.  There are filters that block all of the visible spectrum.  These tend to be expensive.  

A cheaper DIY IR filter solution is to use layers of developed, but unexposed 120 size E6 (slide film).  Buy a roll, have it developed without shooting it.  You'll get a dark, wide strip of film that filters can be cut from.  A double layer blocks a lot of the visible spectrum, while allowing IR to pass.  It's not as nice as the filters, but it's a whole lot cheaper to try out.

I have shot Kodak HIE at night in bars with no filter on the lens, and a double layer of the E6 filter over the flash.  People couldn't see the flash, because the filter blocked visible light, but the IR exposed the film.

Many digital cameras have IR blocking filters built in because their IR sensitivity may compromise normal image quality; this can interfere with the ability to do IR photography.  You can probably find examples on the web from people who have tried IR photography with your DSLR model.


----------



## Meysha (Aug 25, 2005)

Well instead of google, I took a photo of one of my TV remotes in a dark room. hehehe... and it worked!! I can see the invisible IR beam! I'm so excited!! 

So I'm definately going to buy one of those IR filters now.

Any recommendations on a filter to get?
While browsing Google I've seen mentioned a Wrattan (i think), a hoya, a cokin and a couple of others. I have a feeling the wrattan one is really really expensive thingy. So what do you guys recommend?


----------



## Meysha (Aug 25, 2005)

Oh and matt, can I use unexposed negative film? it's just that I don't use 120 slide film. :-( But i can start using it, if you insist, I mean if I _have_ to, then I'll get some. hehehehe.

And I remember seeing those non visible flash ones you posted from the bar. They were amazing!


----------



## Meysha (Aug 25, 2005)

Ok So I'm really exciting my Canon 350D can do infrared shots.... so excited I thought I'd post my very very first infrared shot EVER! hehehe... well actually, technically, every photo I've ever taken on digital has been infrared - but I just haven't noticed it. :blushing:

So this was taken on the floor of my bedroom with the lights off (just like an IR filter) with only the underlay down so far - damn the slow carpet layers. And it's a TV remote. See when you look at the remote normally, that big red light isn't visible, (the little light in the top left is just a LED showing you when you push a button on the remote). But the big one is infrared. So I took a photo, and Voila! It showed up!

YAY! :cheer: Can you tell I'm excited.

Now all I need is an IR filter.


----------



## ksmattfish (Aug 25, 2005)

Wratten refers to a way of coding filters.  When people say they are using a #25, #11, #81b, etc...  they are refering to the Wratten filter code.  Most brands use the Wratten code.

C41 base won't work.


----------



## Meysha (Aug 28, 2005)

ok matt, one more question about those non-visible flash ones you took.

I will be doing this in the same setting as you were - almost - I'll be taking Band photographs and don't want the flash to annoy the hell out of everyone. So could you please tell me if I've got this right?:
I put the slide film 'filter' over the flash, And I _don't_ put an IR filter on the lens. Does the bar have to be pretty dark? Coz otherwise the normal light in the bar would expose the film wouldn't it?  
So if the normal bar light is going to expose the film, how dark does the bar have to be?


----------



## ksmattfish (Aug 28, 2005)

Meysha said:
			
		

> I put the slide film 'filter' over the flash, And I _don't_ put an IR filter on the lens. Does the bar have to be pretty dark? Coz otherwise the normal light in the bar would expose the film wouldn't it?
> So if the normal bar light is going to expose the film, how dark does the bar have to be?



Yes, put the filter (home made or store bought) over the flash.  Something you need to consider is that it is very possible that taping something directly over your flash may cause it to burn itself out due to overheating.  I use a mini softbox, and attached the filter inside of it.  I tape up the whole thing so no light leaks out the seams on the sides.  This may also not be good for the flash, as heat could still build up?  I haven't killed a flash yet, but I'm also not using an expensive model.   

The bars I hang out in are pretty dark, so I don't need a filter on the lens.  The IR from the flash is much more powerful than the ambient light.  I also don't mind if a little ambient light is exposed too.  If you want to block some or all of the visible spectrum you could put a filter on the lens.  

Are you using digital or film?  Either way it's going to have to be all manual exposure, as your meter will not be able to figure out what is going on for any sort of auto or semi-auto exposure modes.  It would definately be faster shooting with digital to figure out the right exposure.  I've only done this with Kodak HIE before, and it's one of the few times I bracket ( -2, -1, N, +1, +2).

Good luck.


----------



## Meysha (Aug 28, 2005)

I was planning on shooting film - after trying with the digital for the same reason you suggested - getting that exposure right.

Infact, that was going to be my next question. What about the exposures? How do I figure out what exposure to do if I'm on film (I guess if I'm on digital I'd just experiment until it's right). But is the HIE film at a certain speed, like ISO 800 or something? I tried to ask a camera shop but they didn't know. :roll:

But I guess if it's "flash" photography, then the shutter speed doesn't really matter. I'd just set that to say 125th or 200th to freeze the movement and then change my aperture to get the right exposure.... right? hehe. So my question is, how do I know what size aperture to pick?


----------



## Meysha (Aug 28, 2005)

> I use a mini softbox, and attached the filter inside of it.


You wouldn't happen to have a link or photo of what that looks like do you? I dunno what a flash mini softbox thing would look like.  Or how it would attach. Or what it does.

Yes i'm feeling very intelligent today, as always. :mrgreen:


----------



## ksmattfish (Aug 28, 2005)

A softbox is a fabric or plastic "box" that goes over a flash head; one side is transluscent.  This diffuses the light, and makes the light source larger.  They can be huge in studio, but you can also buy smaller models that will go on an on-camera flash.  They usuall use velcro to attach to the flash.  Here's a link to one brand and model, there are plenty of other brands too.

http://www.lumiquest.com/lq951.htm

Proper exposure is going to be a combination of flash power, aperture, and distance to subject.  Who knows how much IR your flash is putting out, and the DIY filter isn't perfect either.  You'll want to make sure the flash is firing at full blast, and then bracket.  It's hard to take notes when doing this, so I always use the same bracket order, so when I look at the negs at home I know it goes f/2.8, f/4, f/5.6, f/8, f/11.


----------

