# How come so may have cant make up their mind?



## chito beach (Dec 10, 2010)

Im thinking it has to be something in the water.  I have noticed a major increase in threads that asking strangers to make decisions for them.

"Help me decide" or  "I cant make up my mind"

What ever happened to making up your own mind by doing research and making a decision?

Is it a lost art?


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## themedicine (Dec 10, 2010)

To some regard, I feel like most people have already made up their minds before asking such questions, and are truly seeking affirmation. Then again, this is an internet gimme gimme age, so most people just want to ask questions so they don't have to make mistakes. At least they're willing to do that though!
"A smart man learns from his own mistakes, a wise man learns from others"


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## Overread (Dec 10, 2010)

Meh people were the same in the days before the web - it was just that the circle of people they had access to talk to was smaller - family, friends, maybe one or two people down the local camera club and, of course, the camera shop assistant.

So in the days of digital ordering where the camera shop guy is gone (and shockingly most shops online don't even bother to put that much info up about products on sale either) and where people have access to a wider audience of course they'll ask them.

And where better than to do that on a photography based forum


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## Derrel (Dec 10, 2010)

A recent study I was reading stated that too many choices will cause a preponderance of customers to make NO PURCHASE! When confronted with six choices in a category, almost nobody would buy anything! Perhaps that's what's going on today, with eight Canon and eight Nikon and a bazillion Sony models and four Pentax models...I think many customers feel simply overwhelmed. Cameras now are also much more costly than they used to be...I think even adjusted for inflation, cameras cost more now, due to the built-in "film and developing" costs associated with the sensor and electronics.


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## Seekwence (Dec 11, 2010)

When I purchase anything even moderately expensive, I spend a lot of time online reading reviews and product descriptions. I don't ask a lot of questions, but rather prefer to do the research myself. I mean, it's my money, I feel like I should take it upon myself to learn as much as possible. It's just not my style to ask questions that have probably been answered somewhere else...


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## orb9220 (Dec 11, 2010)

I think I know what your saying. And Think I agree that many have made up their minds before posting. But then again it could be they really haven't and need help on deciding. So maybe it's that instead?

But if they really did their research then they should have it down to 3 or 4 I mean maybe 2 or 3..Ok just 2 I think. Then if they have made up their mind on one already or they may really be stumped on this one or that one so it is 2 and need help to chose 1.

So I'm still on the post if they already decide on 1 ahead of time and just want affirmation. Or they are serious and truly indecisive on which one to get of the two.

What Do you thing? I Can't decide!
.


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## white (Dec 11, 2010)

Asking photography related questions on a photography forum is still considered research. Not much different than quietly reading product reviews.


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## Light Artisan (Dec 11, 2010)

All I know is that after trying to decipher the title of this thread I have a splitting headache.


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## oldmacman (Dec 11, 2010)

There are nuances to products that only come with using an item. Two cameras can be similarly spec'd out but ergonomics, dials and settings can be frustrating. Asking questions about products on a photo forum not only gets people's preference, but most will throw in a few benefits when they are making recommendations.


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## Robin Usagani (Dec 11, 2010)

I cant decide whether I should respond to this thread or not. Can someone help me decide?


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## Ken Rockwell Fan (Dec 11, 2010)

Schwettylens said:


> I cant decide whether I should response to this thread or not. Can someone help me decide?



You just poked out my minds eye.


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## abraxas (Dec 11, 2010)

It's just here on TPF.


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## usayit (Dec 11, 2010)

Seekwence said:


> When I purchase anything even moderately expensive, I spend a lot of time online reading reviews and product descriptions. I don't ask a lot of questions, but rather prefer to do the research myself. I mean, it's my money, I feel like I should take it upon myself to learn as much as possible. It's just not my style to ask questions that have probably been answered somewhere else...



This describes me as well...  I actually enjoy the research and effort in making such decisions.  When I see opening threads with little contributed information, my only conclusion is either they don't have the means to research or just don't have the motivation to make the effort.... and yet expect effort from others.  

This or that threads opened with a wealth of information already gathered, gets my upmost respect.


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## Snakeguy101 (Dec 11, 2010)

well some people start their research on forums like this one and use peoples responses as a starting point before they go in depth to decide for themselves. I think these sorts of forums are really great tools.


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## memento (Dec 11, 2010)

an old roommate used to say, never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups. 
the internet is the largest group of people you could find..

people are extremely lazy too and just want to be told what to do.

and there are a lot of people that are NOO8Z to teh intrAw3b!!11!one!!
and don't know proper etiquette.


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## kassad (Dec 11, 2010)

Schwettylens said:


> I cant decide whether I should respond to this thread or not. Can someone help me decide?



You beat me to it.


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## c.cloudwalker (Dec 11, 2010)

I am much more annoyed by people who couldn't care less about their english or can't bother to proof themselves. Is that something in the water? No idea but it is certainly no less lazy.

As for doing one's own research, one would need to know where to start in the first place. And let's not forget that the internet is a hell of a mess when looking for info because anyone can put their ideas out there, whether right or wrong, and that means it takes knowledge to gather more knowledge.

When I need gear info, I call on gearhead friends. Why should I re-invent the wheel?

Last but not least, no one is forced to answer threads they don't want to answer...


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## Josh66 (Dec 11, 2010)

themedicine said:


> To some regard, I feel like most people have already made up their minds before asking such questions, and are truly seeking affirmation.


Sometimes they have even already made the purchase, and are hoping they made the right one, lol.

I haven't noticed many lately, but we used to get a lot of "I just bought _x_..." threads.


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## pgriz (Dec 11, 2010)

@ chito beach:  Not a lost art, but when it takes so little effort to elicit feedback, what&#8217;s the downside for the question poster?  Too much information of doubtful truthfullness?  They already get that from the marketing documentation.  At worse, they get more regurgitation of what they already have read.  At best, someone will come back with &#8220;yeah, did this, tried that, ended up with X for the following reasons, and after Y months, am pretty happy&#8221;.  It doesn&#8217;t mean that the responder&#8217;s views are 100% relevant to the OP, but it gives a external point of reference, as noted in re reply by &#8220;themedicine&#8221;.

Overread also has a point &#8211; for most beginners, where DO you turn for real advice?  Product brochures?  Aside from the clearly biased slant of these, you still need to have a certain amount of basic knowledge in the field to parse many of the specs and claims into useful information, something that beginners usually don&#8217;t have.  Few belong to a camera club before buying their camera, and the sales staff at the local photo emporium is usually driven by commission incentives, so their &#8220;advice&#8221; is instantly suspect.  The quality of information from the internet forums is uneven, but not obviously biased to one product or another, or to making a sale.

Derrel&#8217;s point is very valid.  This dilemma was described in a Scientific American article a few years back.  Another aspect of this issue is that there are two modes of decision-makers:  the &#8220;good-enough&#8221; and the &#8220;maximizers&#8221;.  The &#8220;good-enough&#8221; make a choice that is good enough, then move on.  The &#8220;maximizers&#8221; hold off making a decision because they are afraid of making a choice they would regret.  The maximizers try to look at all the choices and having made the decision, come back and revisit their decision, second-guessing, if you will.  Few people are exclusively one or the other type, but if someone is mostly a maximize, they tend to spend a lot more time agonizing over the decision.  Guess which type needs to get the maximum amount of information&#8230;


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## KmH (Dec 11, 2010)

pgriz said:


> @ chito beach: Not a lost art, but when it takes so little effort to elicit feedback, whats the downside for the question poster?


 
Incorrect information, and heavily biased info that is really selfspeak that says, "Yes, I made the right decision when I bought my (camera/lens/car/shirt/phone/flash/software/etc.)".


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## Derrel (Dec 11, 2010)

The web can be a great source of comfort to those who are suffering from post-purchase dissonance...I've seen hundreds of people pop in to various forum boards in order to get the fanboys to tell them that they made the "right" decision...as well as those looking to have their post-purchase dissonance confirmed by fanboys who will tell them to "return it to BestBuy immediately and get the SUper DUper 45A instead!"

RE: the "good enough" and the "maximizer" style of purchasers. My familiarity with both those types of people always made me suspicious of the economic principle of marginal utility analysis...I always thought MUA was a load of crap. Still do.

I used to sell cameras, years ago. I found out that the easiest way to sell was always A versus B, not A vs B vs C, which is quite difficult for many people to act upon. Many customers needed help to narrow down the choices within the class of cameras they wanted to buy. When the predominant cameras were $279 35mm 35-105mm zoom cameras like the Pentax IQ ZOom series for example, making a sale was not "that" big of a deal. Today, at $899 to $1599, people are, I think, probably a bit more cautious, and both the good-enough and the maximizer types of buyers have a higher threshold than they used to have.


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## Infidel (Dec 11, 2010)

First, as already mentioned, soliciting opinions from a broad spectrum of users is a form of product research; those users can also steer the purchaser toward a more suitable product (sometimes, not always). Depending on the purchaser, just taking note of the nature of the chatter regarding a product or class of products can be informative in itself. The savy consumer can often tell when users are just hyping something or when there is real content to their comments (a good BS filter is necessary for this type of research). 

Regarding 'maximizer' types vs. 'good enough' types, I tend to start out as the first, then I factor in opportunity cost and become the second.


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## KenC (Dec 11, 2010)

People who are very inexperienced do not realize that there really is very little difference between competing choices in almost every situation.  A very high percentage of the shots one takes could be done just as well with a lens of a slightly different focal length or quality, or with a body a model higher or lower (or more).  It is only in a few critical situations where anyone is likely to notice the difference and the beginner can't even appreciate what those situations might be, or might not be able to take advantage of any potential quality difference.  Since there are so many models and lenses, at least in the Canon and Nikon lines, and the differences between neighboring ones necessarily will be very small, there is no point in agonizing over a decision.  The best thing for a beginner to do is go with the less expensive choice and learn its limits, and when those are appreciated and an upgrade is warranted, one will still have money to do it.


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## Overread (Dec 12, 2010)

Also just a point to add regarding personal research - remember there are some people for whom choosing the camera is far harder because they don't speak the camera lingo. Many reviews might be quite basic in their wording, but still often there will be many key terms that new people simply do not understand - not through stupidity, but through simple lack of experience. This means that when trying their own research they can get an information overload. 

Thus leaving them in a state where they simply can't make a choice - a state further confused when highranking Google results give conflicting answers (eg just think of the confusing if Ken Rockwell's site appears ). Thus I can well understand people going to a forum with even a basic series of questions and even being in a state where they are so new that they are not even in a position to word or construct the right question to get the answers either (something that makes even googling very hard - no ability to form the correct key search questions and no ability to filter the results).


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## Garbz (Dec 14, 2010)

Back when I did business subjects at uni one of our human behavoural subjects was centred around cognitive dissonance (buyers remorse). One of the theories was that when people ask for others to decide for them they have already made their decision and are seeking approval that their decision was good. 

As such you may get someone asking about a D300 vs D7000, and 20 people in the thread may say get the D300, whereas they will be totally ignored because what one person said and what the original poster wanted was the D7000. In which case he now has his silly approval and thus may limit his remorse. 

People are crazy but it does make sense. Next time you don't know what you want, assign option 1 heads, and option 2 tails, then flip a coin. Catch the coin in mid air, and go buy whatever item corresponded to the side you wanted the coin to land on just before it landed. 

This cuts through the bull**** by giving you a timelimit to your thoughts. It works, but if you were that stuck to begin with you'll still end up with buyers remorse


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## jack58 (Dec 14, 2010)

So many different responses here. Some good points on both sides.
This is what the internet and forums is for... to research and to ask questions, especially if your a newbie, like say making a jump from point & shoot to a dslr.

Myself? Since I've been in photography for years, I use the internet for research and forums to see if there are (already posted) complaints or problems of whatever I am looking to buy at the time.


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## eric-holmes (Dec 14, 2010)

themedicine said:


> To some regard, I feel like most people have already made up their minds before asking such questions, and are truly seeking affirmation...  ..."A smart man learns from his own mistakes, a wise man learns from others"


I agree a lot with this statement. I usually know what I WANT to buy, but I feel like I need affirmation before I put down my hard earned cash. Just like my 85 1.8 vs. 50 1.4 debate I am currently struggling with. LOL



Derrel said:


> A recent study I was reading stated that too many choices will cause a preponderance of customers to make NO PURCHASE! When confronted with six choices in a category, almost nobody would buy anything!


I ran into this exact problem with one of my first clients. I overwhelmed them with pictures and they couldn't decided on which ones they liked best. They ended up just ordering a 4x6 in every picture and nothing more. Quite a loss.



Schwettylens said:


> I cant decide whether I should respond to this thread or not. Can someone help me decide?


:lmao:


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## daarksun (Dec 18, 2010)

I personally beat a decision to death with looking, researching, touching and so on. Drives my wife up the wall though. Peoples opinions can be useful in making a decision if your on the fence one way or another. That being said I also believe it partailly our current state of Americans wanting to be given everything and told what to do. Buy this, get rid of that and so it goes. 

For electronics goodies, it's a tough to make a decision on brand type. Most are so close in quality and results we tend to desire others thoughts and views on which way to go. Canon, Nikon, Sony or Pentax can generate most results people are looking for. When they are "investing" in a system like for photography where the costs can be extreme you want to get locked into something you will be happy with for a long time. 

I value the thoughts of people here and on other forum websites. They won't change my opinions or views, but can help you see things in a different way or take on a whole new view. it's what the internet is about.. sharing knowledge as well as opinions. It's all good.


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## skyy38 (Dec 18, 2010)

chito beach said:


> Im thinking it has to be something in the water. I have noticed a major increase in threads that asking strangers to make decisions for them.
> 
> "Help me decide" or "I cant make up my mind"
> 
> ...


 
No, once you have a little knowledge under your belt.

But consultants exist for people who have NO idea where to start...


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## AHadden (Dec 29, 2010)

I am a newbie to the forum and I have just asked a similar question to what you posted...

Let me say this.....I  think before anyone invests a +$2,000 into something, they want to get the best bang for their buck and the forum, I think helps to determine what that is. 

This forum is another form of research...getting opinions on Canon vs. Nikon...lens,
pros and cons to both...

I am neither a Canon or Nikon user ...YET...

If one does not have a pro to ask questions...this is a great option. 

I haven't made a decision on Canon or Nikon yet but I do have it narrowed down to 2 cameras..

This forum helps gives people a better understanding of equipment, issues with a certain brand ...ect..

After all, isn't that what the forum is here for? To learn more? Share your thoughts on photography and equipment?


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## 12sndsgood (Dec 29, 2010)

for some people yes it is being lazy. for others its not.   for some people they will write out a book describing every bit of research they have done. for others they may have done the same amount of research but don't want to write it out thinking it may alter peoples responces.


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## Higgs Boson (Dec 29, 2010)

It's only your perception.  Behind these scenes people are doing all kinds of research.  Sorry to break it to you, but your opinion is only one of 1000 received.

People love to help!  People love to give their opinion!  It's in our nature.  We want everyone to make the same decision we did (or the opposite if we are truly dissatisfied).

Given that, which question are you more likely to answer?

1) Help!  Which camera should I get?

2) No big deal, since I may or may not use your opinion for my decision, but I've been doing research and want X camera but since there are other options out there, I figured I'd run it by you to see if you can back up my 99% made decision.  I'm still going to do what I want, but I want you to spend your time and efforts on relating your .001% relevant experience anyways.  Thanks in advance, I won't be back.


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## PeterToronto (Dec 30, 2010)

It clearly comes down to too much choice for the average consumer.  Frankly, they're just overwhelmed by the nuances, and are worried about making a mistake.  I wrote an article on this after I read The Paradox of Choice...here's the link to what I think is a very worthwhile read:

peter anthony PHOTOGRAPHY - Peter Anthony Photography Blog - THE PARADOX OFCHOICE

Peace
Peter

peter anthony PHOTOGRAPHY - Home


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## Bynx (Dec 30, 2010)

I am pretty sure that Washington DC is somewhere in the USA. They speak and type english in Washington dont they? What the hell does...and there are a lot of people that are NOO8Z to teh intrAw3b!!11!one!! and don't know proper etiquette...mean in english?


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## shinjitsumanifest (Dec 31, 2010)

I'm a noob who was very tempted to start a "which of these two" thread upon joining the forums. For the longest time, I had my sights going back and forth between two specific cameras. I did a lot of research, tried out friends' cameras, etc. but there is only so much insight you can get from reviewers who have the camera for a couple weeks or an hour or two with a friend's gear versus honest opinions from people who have had the piece of equipment for much longer. While it is unfortunate that there are lazy people out there who have others make their decisions for them, I feel that they constitute a very small portion of those who do ask these questions. It's really daunting to throw all this money at something and we all want to be happy. It's really reassuring to hear lots of different perspectives about our potential purchase.


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## Bynx (Dec 31, 2010)

Not to worry erose, the guy that wrote it will understand. Its a quote by memento bottom of page 1.


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## PeterToronto (Dec 31, 2010)

shinjitsumanifest said:


> I'm a noob who was very tempted to start a "which of these two" thread upon joining the forums. For the longest time, I had my sights going back and forth between two specific cameras. I did a lot of research, tried out friends' cameras, etc. but there is only so much insight you can get from reviewers who have the camera for a couple weeks or an hour or two with a friend's gear versus honest opinions from people who have had the piece of equipment for much longer. While it is unfortunate that there are lazy people out there who have others make their decisions for them, I feel that they constitute a very small portion of those who do ask these questions. It's really daunting to throw all this money at something and we all want to be happy. It's really reassuring to hear lots of different perspectives about our potential purchase.



This post highlights the genuine kind of emotion and research that people invest in their decisions.  I suppose what you need to ask is: "Are those small differences between products, not just cameras, going to make a significant difference in the results?"

Overthinking camera purchases is one thing, but when you see people fretting over toothpaste or shoe insoles, well that's another.

Peace
Peter

peter anthony PHOTOGRAPHY - Home


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## Higgs Boson (Dec 31, 2010)

PeterToronto said:


> shinjitsumanifest said:
> 
> 
> > I'm a noob who was very tempted to start a "which of these two" thread upon joining the forums. For the longest time, I had my sights going back and forth between two specific cameras. I did a lot of research, tried out friends' cameras, etc. but there is only so much insight you can get from reviewers who have the camera for a couple weeks or an hour or two with a friend's gear versus honest opinions from people who have had the piece of equipment for much longer. While it is unfortunate that there are lazy people out there who have others make their decisions for them, I feel that they constitute a very small portion of those who do ask these questions. It's really daunting to throw all this money at something and we all want to be happy. It's really reassuring to hear lots of different perspectives about our potential purchase.
> ...



There is a concept dealing with high or low involvement purchase decisions. They each have a different purchase process. A different person can be involved differently in the purchase of the same item. Sometimes it depends on money and sometimes the soreness level of the feet or teeth vs tolerance for pain vs how much walking you do in a day.


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## Rick2544 (Oct 1, 2013)

As a beginner, I asked in order to see if anyone could tell me if features on the D7000 vs the D7100 was worth the $450 price difference for a beginner who wants to gain expertise with photography.


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## table1349 (Oct 1, 2013)

As this thread is 3 years old now, I believe that most of the posters including the OP have made up their mind to not pay attention to this thread any longer.


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## DiskoJoe (Oct 1, 2013)

chito beach said:


> Im thinking it has to be something in the water.  I have noticed a major increase in threads that asking strangers to make decisions for them.
> 
> "Help me decide" or  "I cant make up my mind"
> 
> ...



Specs dont tell you much about what you are getting.


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## cgipson1 (Oct 1, 2013)

Rick2544 said:


> As a beginner, I asked in order to see if anyone could tell me if features on the D7000 vs the D7100 was worth the $450 price difference for a beginner who wants to gain expertise with photography.



Zombie thread... from 2010.... let it die!


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## IByte (Oct 1, 2013)

It's Halloween season people!!


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## manaheim (Oct 1, 2013)

Whoa wicked old thread.  It's October. The zombies are flowing.

I'm not sure if I should lock it or shoot it in the head.


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## KmH (Oct 1, 2013)

No need to lock it. It's still a apropos subject.
Apparently, someone used the forum's Search feature which should probably be encouraged.


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## manaheim (Oct 2, 2013)

mmkay.


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