# Bridezilla! HELP!



## jayohphotography (May 7, 2014)

She wants changes, changes and more changes... on the contract, it does not say anything about additional charges for changes... SO i have been doing them all FREEEEE, I will be giving her everything next week, but i want her to sign something stating there will be no more changes UNLESS she pays additional fees....
This has been going on for MONTHS....

I am having a hard time coming up with the right wording... I dont want to sound like a jerk, BUT i dont want to keep wasting time, I dont think she will ever be happy.... (i do the changes she wants and she changes it again)

I will DEFF be reviewing my contract after this. There is a first for everything eh...


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## konijntjesbroek (May 7, 2014)

If it were me:
Finish this one on current contract. It was an oversight that won't happen again. Not a pro photog, but have done onsite and bench tech work for the better part of 2 decades. The reason for the contract is that it states explicitly the charges and services. I want to build my reputation on my contract/word. My least favorite story along these lines was once having a sales guy quote 40 hours of work for an extremely complex network rebuild and Linux, WinXP integration ( was on site for 35-40 hrs/wk for a month on that job, client billed 40h of work ). Lesson learned, from then on out engineer and sales team went on complex (any non-new install) sites for estimates.
Next, reword contract to the effect: First 3 modifications to spec free, each subsequent change to spec = 5% of estimate x # of changes including the 1st 3. so #4 == 20% added cost, #5 == 25% added cost ( or whatever percentage makes it worth the time, may allow clients a framework to make better decisions ). Then if the client is exceptional and I feel like waiving/reducing the fee, fine. If they are a burr under my blanket, I can still not resent the business as I am making a reasonable profit on each set of changes.  Amazing how quickly the changes become superfluous once there is a significant chunk of change tied to it.


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## jayohphotography (May 7, 2014)

konijntjesbroek said:


> If it were me:
> Finish this one on current contract. It was an oversight that won't happen again. Not a pro photog, but have done onsite and bench tech work for the better part of 2 decades. The reason for the contract is that it states explicitly the charges and services. I want to build my reputation on my contract/word. My least favorite story along these lines was once having a sales guy quote 40 hours of work for an extremely complex network rebuild and Linux, WinXP integration ( was on site for 35-40 hrs/wk for a month on that job, client billed 40h of work ). Lesson learned, from then on out engineer and sales team went on complex (any non-new install) sites for estimates.
> Next, reword contract to the effect: First 3 modifications to spec free, each subsequent change to spec = 5% of estimate x # of changes including the 1st 3. so #4 == 20% added cost, #5 == 25% added cost ( or whatever percentage makes it worth the time, may allow clients a framework to make better decisions ). Then if the client is exceptional and I feel like waiving/reducing the fee, fine. If they are a burr under my blanket, I can still not resent the business as I am making a reasonable profit on each set of changes.  Amazing how quickly the changes become superfluous once there is a significant chunk of change tied to it.



thank you for the response! And yes you are right, it was my mistake, not hers.  I will be reviewing the contract this week


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## tirediron (May 7, 2014)

(This is predicated upon the assumption that you have completely fulfilled the terms of your contract)  Okay, it doesn't say that there is a charge for additional work, but does it say that there is no charge?  I am generally willing to do a small amount of additional work as a courtesy, but there has to be a limit.  I would arrange a meeting and ask her exactly what if any further work she expects.  If you're willing to do it free, then fine, draft a quick supplement to your contract and have her sign it stating that there will be NO FURTHER work done other than that specified expect at standard rates.  If the amount of work she wants done is more than you are prepared to do, then explain to her that you have already done more courtesy work than you normally do, and you simply cannot afford to do any more, and if she's not happy with the state of things, then you will be happy to take care of it, at standard rates.


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## Big Mike (May 8, 2014)

> Okay, it doesn't say that there is a charge for additional work, but does it say that there is no charge?



This was my first thought as well.  It sounds like your mistake wasn't necessarily that you didn't have a clause in your contract, it was that you started doing 'free' edits in the first place.

If you want this to stop, give her the edited photos along with a bill for all the extra time you spent.  You'll have to figure out what your time is worth, but $40-$100 per hour aught to do it.  I'd guess that she won't be happy about the bill, but you're reply could be along the lines of "Well, you didn't expect me to work for free did you?"  
But maybe then you acquiesce and rescind the bill because it was not agreed upon beforehand.  (I only suggest this because it seems like you don't expect to get paid for the time anyway).  
This process would serve to inform your client that your time is valuable and that you won't be doing any further edits for free.  Two favourable outcomes are that she actually pays the bill or she stops asking for further (free) edits.


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## Overread (May 8, 2014)

Go here Clients From Hell

Read - and laugh and learn (then submit your story!).


I agree with the others, you have to nip this in the bud otherwise it might never end; clients are like children, if you give them an inch they'll try for a second inch and if you give them that then they'll want a third and so on. You've got to have limits beyond which you simply have to give them the practical side of things that your time is money and that once they are demanding beyond what is outlined in the contract then they have to start paying for it. You could soften the blow for a good client by giving discount over your regular rate because they are already under contract; for a client that isn't favoured and might well be a pain they don't get discount.


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## kathyt (May 8, 2014)

What type of changes? Are they "opportunities" to upsell, or just random things. I need specifics. Instead of getting defensive with your client, get on their team. It will show in your sales. Go above and beyond.


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## sm4him (May 8, 2014)

I agree with John, Mike and others--your contract may not SAY anything about additional charges, but assuming it clearly delineates exactly what you were charging for in the first place, I'd think it's pretty heavily implied that those things are ALL you get for what the contract states you're paying. But now you've started the "free changes" ball rolling and getting it stopped could be tricky.  John's (tired iron) thoughts on the topic seem like a good suggestion to me.



konijntjesbroek said:


> If it were me:
> Finish this one on current contract. It was an oversight that won't happen again. Not a pro photog, but have done onsite and bench tech work for the better part of 2 decades. The reason for the contract is that it states explicitly the charges and services. I want to build my reputation on my contract/word. My least favorite story along these lines was once having a sales guy quote 40 hours of work for an extremely complex network rebuild and Linux, WinXP integration ( was on site for 35-40 hrs/wk for a month on that job, client billed 40h of work ). Lesson learned, from then on out engineer and sales team went on complex (any non-new install) sites for estimates.
> Next, reword contract to the effect: First 3 modifications to spec free, each subsequent change to spec = 5% of estimate x # of changes including the 1st 3. so #4 == 20% added cost, #5 == 25% added cost ( or whatever percentage makes it worth the time, may allow clients a framework to make better decisions ). Then if the client is exceptional and I feel like waiving/reducing the fee, fine. If they are a burr under my blanket, I can still not resent the business as I am making a reasonable profit on each set of changes.  Amazing how quickly the changes become superfluous once there is a significant chunk of change tied to it.



I'd be MIGHTY careful about an addendum like that. First off, I'd make it clear that ANY modification to the contract must be agreed upon by you, as the photographer. Second, a blanket statement like "3 modifications to spec free" could be trouble, depending on what they want modified and how much it's likely to cost you.  The next Bridezilla WILL interpret that as saying that she could modify her contract, which includes a 10-page basic album, to a 25-page premium, leather-bound album, for FREE.


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## tirediron (May 8, 2014)

sm4him said:


> konijntjesbroek said:
> 
> 
> > If it were me:
> ...


Yep!  Those ideas might work in the IT world (Don't know, I have no experience there), but I would not do anything like that in the photographic one.  As Sharon says, this could open you up to a whole new batch of ugly.  One of the things that I do is I build a 10% discount into my pricing structure; that is:  All of my prices are 10% higher than necessary so that I can say to the client, "Since you're ordering X, Y, and Z (BTW, that's "Zed", NOT "Zee"!) I'll give you a discount.  Conversely in this case I would be able to say, "Gee Sally, I'm sorry, but but this is costing me money, to do these changes, and I've already given you a big discount/free....".  I don't normally phrase it as a percentage discount, rather I offer a couple of free prints, or something along those lines, but it's still got guilt leverage.


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## KmH (May 8, 2014)

I'm reading that the bride is changing an as yet not signed contract, not edits to images.

Letting the client dictate your contract terms is a recipe for financial disaster.

If you do not yet have a signed contract and a retainer from this bride, fire her, because having established she can push you around she will continue doing so even after signing a contract.


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## unpopular (May 8, 2014)

Yep. I agree with others. I once got all in a puff about having to register and properly license my car else it would be towed by my landlord. My landlord was quick to point out that the lease says nothing about car parking one way or another, that it was his property, and that I need to go to hell.

And with an apology, to hell I went.

If the contract doesn't specify one way or another then it is outside the bounds of the contract. You are free to charge whatever you want at that point, the contract only obligates you to what you both agree to. Obviously some amount of customer service demands minor corrections, but you're not obligated to provide services never mentioned.

In my case, if the lease specified that I may park a car but does not mention it needing to be registered then I might have had an argument. This is why it is important that contracts are carefully worded so that you don't end up agreeing to something you're not thinking that you're agreeing to. A contract that states that "corrections are permitted within ten days of proof delivery" without specifying what "corrections" and mean, might obligate you to completely reshooting the set until everything is "perfect".


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## jayohphotography (May 8, 2014)

It is her wedding album, she has about 200 photos on it, i ordered it, she didnt like it because "they were not in order she wanted" 
I flipped a couple around because she even told me what sizes she wanted each, and she only paid for a certain amount of extra pages on the album, so to fit ALL those photos in there, i had to use the space wisely.... so yes a couple photos were flipped, she didnt like it, i had to spend hours reorganizing them.... sent them back, and again she didnt like certain sizes she picked, so she switched it AGAIN.... three times... on my contract it says nothing about extra charges for changes, but it also doesnt say changes are free... so when i deliver this, i will be taking a contract saying how much future changes will cost, should i make her sign that she got her things and throw in there about the changes? I emailed her last night, letting her know that there will be fees for further changes... That would be enough I hope right?


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## curtyoungblood (May 8, 2014)

I want to make sure I understand this correctly. You ordered her an album. She received it and didn't like the order they were in, so you ordered another album. She still doesn't like it and wants you to order a third?


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## weepete (May 8, 2014)

I'm no pro. But if your contract says you will deliver an album of x many photos then that's fine, doing it once is fulfilling your contract, twice is good, three times is great customer service. Beyond that unless you've given her a clause that offererd edits to satisfaction then you have done your bit. I'd take one more shot at it, sit down with her in person and sort the layout. If she wants changes after that then it costs.


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## robbins.photo (May 8, 2014)

unpopular said:


> Yep. I agree with others. I once got all in a puff about having to register and properly license my car else it would be towed by my landlord. My landlord was quick to point out that the lease says nothing about car parking one way or another, that it was his property, and that I need to go to hell.
> 
> And with an apology, to hell I went.



Were you at least able to find someplace to park when you got there?


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## Scatterbrained (May 8, 2014)

jayohphotography said:


> It is her wedding album, she has about 200 photos on it, i ordered it, she didnt like it because "they were not in order she wanted"
> I flipped a couple around because she even told me what sizes she wanted each, and she only paid for a certain amount of extra pages on the album, so to fit ALL those photos in there, i had to use the space wisely.... so yes a couple photos were flipped, she didnt like it, i had to spend hours reorganizing them.... sent them back, and again she didnt like certain sizes she picked, so she switched it AGAIN.... three times... on my contract it says nothing about extra charges for changes, but it also doesnt say changes are free... so when i deliver this, i will be taking a contract saying how much future changes will cost, should i make her sign that she got her things and throw in there about the changes? I emailed her last night, letting her know that there will be fees for further changes... That would be enough I hope right?


I see where the problem originated from now.   She chose a specific layout.  You changed the layout to make the images fit the number of pages, rather than explain that she'd need to spring for a few more pages.   This could have been avoided very easily if you had just told her that what she wanted wasn't going to work the way she wanted it to without her paying a bit extra.    If you pay your mechanic for an oil change, then tell him you want the expensive synthetic oil, he's going to remind you that it's going to cost more.   Pretty straightforward really, and something to bear in mind in the future.


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## kathyt (May 9, 2014)

jayohphotography said:


> It is her wedding album, she has about 200 photos on it, i ordered it, she didnt like it because "they were not in order she wanted"
> I flipped a couple around because she even told me what sizes she wanted each, and she only paid for a certain amount of extra pages on the album, so to fit ALL those photos in there, i had to use the space wisely.... so yes a couple photos were flipped, she didnt like it, i had to spend hours reorganizing them.... sent them back, and again she didnt like certain sizes she picked, so she switched it AGAIN.... three times... on my contract it says nothing about extra charges for changes, but it also doesnt say changes are free... so when i deliver this, i will be taking a contract saying how much future changes will cost, should i make her sign that she got her things and throw in there about the changes? I emailed her last night, letting her know that there will be fees for further changes... That would be enough I hope right?


I see a few problems.
1. Holy crap 200 images in an album? That's a lot! I try to keep around 75ish. 
2. Client should okay the album layout BEFORE it goes to press. Specify in your contract how many times they are allotted for changes, and what charges might accrue when changes happen. Use this opportunity to make more money. 
3. You might want to call her at this point just to clarify that you both are on the same page. If not, then it could turn into another album ordered on your dime. 
It's all about a solid contract, excellent communication, patience, and confidence. Stay strong to your business, but be willing to give great customer service. Wedding photography is all about referrals!


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## jayohphotography (May 9, 2014)

Yes i 100% agree, about sending a proof before printing, I had never had that happen so I assumed "it will never happen to me" 

and I did tell her 200 was way too much, i usually do 50-70 more or less

200 photos on 28 pages, a MESS! She did purchase a couple extra pages, but it was not enough and she was on a budget so I tried to work with that, I learned my lesson, and hope some of you learn from me too lol,  deff. not fun but a good experience.


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