# Are you: Paper flippers, tray shakers, or tong turners, or??



## havoc (Oct 21, 2003)

When i do my prints i like to constantly turn the paper over with my hands, i watch some people who shake the trays to create agitation, i have seen others who flip with the tongs, and others still who just throw it in upside down and leave it for like that the whole time. What do you guys do? 
My professor claims he can spot a tray shaker from a mile away, as well as a leave and forget guy. Some people don't wanna touch the chems, i can understand that, (gloves work great in that case) Do you wear gloves in the darkroom? Have you seen any other techniques? Do you like the Yankee's or Marlins in the World Series? Let me know!


----------



## ksmattfish (Oct 21, 2003)

I am mostly a tray shaker, although sometimes I mix it up with a tong turn.

I try to use tongs as much as possible when handling the prints, at least until they get into the holding bath.  I don't have any skin problems with the chemicals, but I experience way to much contamination if I use my bare hands.  I guess I just don't wash my hands well, or care to take the time to do so every few minutes.

Leave and forget prints might show evidence of dev exhaustion in some areas.  What does your prof say about tray shaking vs. turning?

I use trays for developing my 4x5 negs.  Sitting in the total dark (no safelight) slowly shuffling 4 to 8 sheets for 12+ minutes.  You have to adjust your development time to take into account that the constant immersion of your hands in the dev will raise the temp by a few degrees towards the end.  Sometimes I forget to turn on the radio and it's like being in a sensory deprivation chamber.  The only thing I sense is the slimy developer on the slippery sheets of film.  I'll begin to daydream and have out of body experiences.  I'm afraid that some day I'll miss the click of the timer and just keep sitting there, shuffling, for an hour or two.


----------



## oriecat (Oct 21, 2003)

I vote "Tray Shaker" but I don't think that accurately describes it.  The paper goes in face down for about the first 30-45 seconds unless I'm feeling impatient that day.  It is then turned (just the once!) to watch development.  I think shaking is not accurate, but more like a gentle rocking motion for the agitation.

So your prof is implying that agitation is a bad thing?  :?


----------



## carlita (Oct 21, 2003)

oriecat said:
			
		

> I think shaking is not accurate, but more like a gentle rocking motion for the agitation.



i was thinking the same thing, orie.

anyway, i voted for tray shaking.  DEATH TO TONGS!!  metal ones anyway, but the ones that aren't metal i've noticed don't work worth a damn anyway.  we probably just have crappy ones  in the darkroom.  i put my prints in upside down since i work in an envirnoment where there are a bunch of other people around and i don't want them sticking the damn metal tongs into the trays and scratching my prints.  bastards.

no, i don't wear gloves.  the worst thing that ever seems to happen as a result of sticking my fingers in the chems is that eventually my fingers peel a little, but it's no big deal.

and baseball sucks.

good night.


----------



## voodoocat (Oct 21, 2003)

Tray shaker here.  I stick it in, emulsion up, and rock it back and forth for the duration.  I haven't picked up a timer yet, so I've been using a metronome set at 60bpm.  My rocking tends to go at the same pace.


----------



## havoc (Oct 22, 2003)

LOL, Baseball does not suck..... I don't know if i could sit in the dark turning negs. for 12 minutes man, that would kill me.

As for why my proffesor doesn't like tray rocking, he says that when you rock your tray, whether the picture is face down or face up, your not stiring the chemicals around enough to "properly" develop the print.  He says by turning the prints contantly in a circular motion you are forcing the chemicals to shuffle around more, much like a paddle digging into a water.

He took two prints yesterday put them side by side, and asked us which one was turned and which was shook, i didn't notice a difference but some other people in the class said they could.  He said there is some sort of wave effect as the chemicals exhaust over the emulsion.

Who knows, this guy is good, but he is also nuts.


----------



## ksmattfish (Oct 22, 2003)

Hmmm, I could see that it might be a problem in a small tray, but I use bigger trays than the print needs, with lots of chem, and high sides so I can rock pretty vigorously.  I have no doubt that my chems are getting swished around and mixed up nicely.  I also rock from all four sides.


----------



## carlita (Oct 22, 2003)

ksmattfish said:
			
		

> Hmmm, I could see that it might be a problem in a small tray, but I use bigger trays than the print needs, with lots of chem, and high sides so I can rock pretty vigorously.  I have no doubt that my chems are getting swished around and mixed up nicely.  I also rock from all four sides.



precisely.


----------



## photoman (Oct 22, 2003)

Im a tray rocker. I havent noticed any bad prints from the developer. It might be a problem if you use the devloper to exaustion, but i never get there because my fixer goes before the developer and i just make new chemicals when the fixer is gone

I think the Yankees are going to win


----------



## ksmattfish (Oct 23, 2003)

carlita said:
			
		

> DEATH TO TONGS!!  metal ones anyway, but the ones that aren't metal i've noticed don't work worth a damn anyway.  we probably just have crappy ones  in the darkroom.  i put my prints in upside down since i work in an envirnoment where there are a bunch of other people around and i don't want them sticking the damn metal tongs into the trays and scratching my prints.



Has anyone here successfully used metal tongs without scratching the print?  I find them to be so destructive that I'm sort of surprised that they are even on the market.

I wasted $35 on a set of fancy Saunders stainless steel tongs.  Every single print they got near ended up with scratches.   I'm sticking with  cheap, bamboo, rubber tipped tongs.


----------



## havoc (Oct 25, 2003)

LOL, who answered snowballer? I got 3 guesses on who


----------

