# Wedding Photographers Unite: NOT ANOTHER NOOBIE/Wedding Post



## chrisburke (Dec 31, 2008)

No, I'm not a noobie whose taken on the task of shooting a wedding less than a week from today! I've been doing weddings for a while, and I love them, they are so much fun to me.

I'm interested to know what gear other wedding photographers are taking to weddings..

I tend to just bring camera bodies, couple of necessary lens' (depending on the location) and my flash (and slave).. oh and a tripod (not used much though)  i'm interested to see what others bring though... 

Also, i thought it would be kinda neat to post your favorite all time wedding photo that you've taken (just 1) maybe we can glean pose ideas from each other.

Heres Mine:


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## hankejp (Dec 31, 2008)

Finally Chris,

Maybe a wedding thread where people arent ragging on others.  Although I don't shoot weddings, I would love to see some pics from the "pros".


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## chrisburke (Dec 31, 2008)

hankejp said:


> Finally Chris,
> 
> Maybe a wedding thread where people arent ragging on others.  Although I don't shoot weddings, I would love to see some pics from the "pros".



yea, i get pretty tried of the wedding newbie threads and the arguing (even though I contribute to the arguing).. so I thought i'd start a happy wedding thread..

I especially look forward to hearing from bigmike, because I've seen his wedding shots, and that man knows what he's doing at a wedding (not to say others don't, i just think he does a great job)


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## hankejp (Dec 31, 2008)

chrisburke said:


> yea, i get pretty tried of the wedding newbie threads and the arguing (even though I contribute to the arguing).. so I thought i'd start a happy wedding thread..
> 
> I especially look forward to hearing from bigmike, because I've seen his wedding shots, and that man knows what he's doing at a wedding (not to say others don't, i just think he does a great job)


 

Just looking at your gear.  Are those the lenses you use for weddings?  Just curious.


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## Big Mike (Dec 31, 2008)

> I'm interested to know what gear other wedding photographers are taking to weddings..


Besides the obvious camera bodies and primary lenses (17-50, 70-200 & 10-22) & flashes...I usually have a 35-105mm with diopter (macro) filters.  I hope to replace this with the 60mm macro lens.  I will also bring a fast prime, either the 50mm F1.8 or 30mm F1.4...or both.  
I usually have a light meter in my bag but rarely use it during a wedding.  Plenty of memory cards and batteries etc.  The usual stuff.  

I have a tiny tripod in my camera bag but I'll usually have my big one in the car...don't use it much though.  

I also make sure to have at least one (rain) umbrella in one of my bags.  I prefer to have several umbrellas, I often get those cheap compact ones because I sometimes don't get them back.  More than once, I've been the hero because I had a couple umbrellas with me. 
I also carry an 'emergency repair kit'.  A small sewing kit and some safety & bobby pins.  A photographer I often work with, carries things like hair spray, powder & make up etc.  

I always have my 'pharmacey'.  A selection of common things from the drug store.  Tylenol, Advil, Imodium (this can be a life saver), fast acting allergy pills, non-drowsy cold tablets etc.

I also have water bottles and some sort of easy snack food like granola bars or fruit.  I like to have a small cooler in the car to keep the water & food cold but I'll also carry some in with me.

Depending on the wedding...I may also bring one or more of my studio lights, along with the other gear like stands etc.  It's a toss up because I also use flash units on stands (ala strobist) but if time and the location allows, a studio light can be a better option.

We usually have a step ladder along with us.  Sometimes we drag it around with us for the formal...sometimes not.


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## Big Mike (Dec 31, 2008)

> I especially look forward to hearing from bigmike, because I've seen his wedding shots, and that man knows what he's doing at a wedding (not to say others don't, i just think he does a great job)


Thanks Chris, I appreciate that.  There are a fair number of wedding photographers around here with more talent than me and many with more experience...so lets hope they chime in as well.


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## chrisburke (Dec 31, 2008)

hankejp said:


> Just looking at your gear.  Are those the lenses you use for weddings?  Just curious.



that and an 18-105 which until now I always borrowed from a friend, but i just ordered one for myself.. nice clean lens, and sometimes I snag the 18-70 as well.

i dont use the 70-300 very often,  but it came in handy in a wedding this past summer... they were married by a river,  the river had a big walk way that they went out on, and the smaller lens couldnt really get in there enough, so I broke it out and got some pics with it.


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## chrisburke (Dec 31, 2008)

big mike,  do you put your flash on your camera, or do you run some type of triggering system and move the flash around?

also, just checking out the "shots of you shooting" on your blog... what light is that your using??
here:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_yB48urQM-90/STcF9rm_E1I/AAAAAAAAAFg/vkT6I0M7QOM/s1600-h/Mike-02-web.jpg


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## hankejp (Dec 31, 2008)

chrisburke said:


> that and an 18-105 which until now I always borrowed from a friend, but i just ordered one for myself.. nice clean lens, and sometimes I snag the 18-70 as well.
> 
> i dont use the 70-300 very often, but it came in handy in a wedding this past summer... they were married by a river, the river had a big walk way that they went out on, and the smaller lens couldnt really get in there enough, so I broke it out and got some pics with it.


 

That's good to know.  I always thought that to shoot a wedding, you needed fast lenses.  Is that not necessarily the case when using a flash?


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## chrisburke (Dec 31, 2008)

hankejp said:


> That's good to know.  I always thought that to shoot a wedding, you needed fast lenses.  Is that not necessarily the case when using a flash?



i've never had a problem with the glass i use... obviously i would like to get faster glass, but its sometimes hard to convince the wife that i need more lens' even though the agreement when I started photography was that i could use the money i make at gigs to go back into gear...


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## Big Mike (Dec 31, 2008)

> big mike, do you put your flash on your camera, or do you run some type of triggering system and move the flash around?


Either way...and sometimes both.

For 'documentation' type parts of the wedding (the ceremony etc) I will usually have the flash on the camera because don't have time or opportunity to set up light.  For formals, we will usually have a flash on a stand.  For the reception, I've been doing both...having an off-camera flash set up somewhere but also using a 2nd flash on-camera as well.


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## Big Mike (Dec 31, 2008)

> That's good to know. I always thought that to shoot a wedding, you needed fast lenses. Is that not necessarily the case when using a flash?


Of course you don't _*need*_ fast lenses when shooting a wedding...but it really does help a lot.  It becomes less important when using flash but I'd still say that it's fairly important.

Fast lenses give you a brighter viewfinder and give the camera more light for auto focusing.  This could mean the difference for getting that quick shot.  Many cameras have extra AF functions with F2.8 (or faster) lenses.  
Of course, there is the ability to get faster shutter speeds with large apertures...which can make for sharper images.  Sure, you can freeze motion with flash, but if you want to mix ambient light with flash, then wide apertures are probably necessary.  
Fast lenses also give you the ability to get a shallow DOF...if that's your style.  Check out the latest post from Peanuts and see what she does with shallow DOF....it's great stuff.  

This thread need not be a discussion about fast vs slow lenses...but if the question is 'What gear do I bring to a wedding?'  the answer is Fast Glass.


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## Lacey Anne (Dec 31, 2008)

I'll be reading this thread. I hope it progresses.


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## Peanuts (Dec 31, 2008)

Yay!  Wedding photogs unite!

So as for gear, here is my list. 

5DMII (yay)
1DsMII
24-70mm (this is my go to lens for getting ready, formals, and if I don't really know what is happening next)
70-200 (ceremony and reception)
135
85
45 TS
fisheye (sometimes)
100mm Macro
I am considering getting a 17-40
Quantum battery pack (love)
580EX II
420EX (not so much love going to this guy)
Emergency kit (tide to go, bobby pins, floss etc. etc. almost used at every wedding so far and the brides really appreciate it)
Reflector
Two cheap white towels (if I want the bride to sit down on something outside
Tripod
Stepping stool

I really can't choose a favourite wedding photo.. umm.. I guess I will put up the one that the brides like the best. I find it too cliche but.. meh


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## Battou (Dec 31, 2008)

Lacey Anne said:


> I'll be reading this thread. I hope it progresses.



+1 :thumbup:


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## ATXshots (Dec 31, 2008)

Peanuts! I love that photo!! So romantic looking


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## JerryPH (Dec 31, 2008)

chrisburke said:


> No, I'm not a noobie whose taken on the task of shooting a wedding less than a week from today!



Shoot, no reason for me to be here... nothing for me to rag on.. oh wait, you're a Canon guy, right, Chis?  I can latch on to that and piss off a few people with a little effort... LOL

Kidding aside, honestly, just like there is no one answer to the "what settings are good at a wedding" question, the "what equipment do I need" falls not too far away.  It depends WHERE the wedding is taking place and who the clients are as well as the photographer's experience level.

Is it all outdoors in daylight?  Almost anything goes.

Is it in a darker gloomy church? Fast lenses rule.

Is it a candle lit church ceremony?  Good camera, fast glass and high ISO are the tricks to get this wedding done in the proper manner.

Lenses... well ALL of them should be capable of F/2.8 as a minimum, IMHO, that at least guarantees a certain level of lens quality (albeit not a lot, but still).  

If you can find a few good sharp lenses that drop down to F/1.8 or F/1.4, that's even better.  Focal lengths... ANYTHING goes!  From fish-eye to ultra-wide angle all the way up to that 70-200. Again, depends on what you want to do.

I have near 6500 wedding pics from 4 events but becuase of my agreement with my mentor/man who uses me as a second, I cannot use any publicly, and I am OK with that.  At the time, it was just for the experience anyways and I never had the intent of turning pro (still am not either).  

Now, I am kinda glad that I have this experience... there are 2 weddings that are coming up in my own family in 2009 and I have been already asked to "do" both.  I answered the same to both... sure, as long as I am the secondary photographer to a REAL professional, I have no issues helping out.

With one, though, I *may* reconsider, as it is going to be a very tiny and private affair (about 10-15 people in all) in a small church and the reception will be in their home, and it is a very young couple just starting out in life (22 and 24 years old).  We'll see, I am sincerely undecided.

I am NOT a professional, but I am willing to bet that equipment for me would be the LEAST of my worries.

Bodies:
- Nikon D200
- Nikon D700

Lenses I would take with me (I have a few more, but some are not suited to weddings).

For the D700:
- Nikkor 85mm D AF F/1.4 prime
- Nikkor 50mm F/1.8 D prime
- Nikkor 70-200mm IF-ED VR F/2.8
- Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED
- Nikkor 14-24mm f/2.8G ED (not bought yet but I will by this summer)
- Nikkor 16mm f/2.8G ED fisheye (not bought yet but I will by this summer)

For the D200:
- Sigma 10-20mm F4-5.6 EX DC HSM Ultra Wide Angle
- Sigma 18-50mm F/2.8 EX DC HSM Macro
- Sigma 30mm EX DC F/1.4 HSM  prime
- Sigma 105mm EX DG F/2.8 Macro  prime

Lighting:
- 1 SB-800
- 4 SB-600s (I have 2 now, 2 more coming by end of March)
- A couple studio strobes if needed (I may have the Elinchrom D-Lite 4 package by then too)
- 6 lightstands/umbrellas (may not use them all, but they would be there)

Triggering would be handled by my modded Cactus V2s transmitters/receivers as they have been flawless for me so far.


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## anubis404 (Dec 31, 2008)

Wow Jerry, lots of good stuff. I'd be eager to see some of your work.

Chris, I notice that your gear is a little unconventional. Any particular reason for not upgrading?


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## chrisburke (Dec 31, 2008)

anubis404 said:


> Chris, I notice that your gear is a little unconventional. Any particular reason for not upgrading?



oh i'm getting there...  the plan is for a D300.. but as I mentioned in a previous post, its been hard convincing the wife to let me put the money back into the trade...  i'm getting there though.. I've got a few weddings coming up, and I've kinda "put my foot down" on the issue, and told the missus that this is my hobby, and when I make money at it, its mine, so I'll do with it what i please... of course, it created some animosity... but its all good now, and she understands that if i want to do even more jobs, that i have to have the gear.. so I'm getting there!!


Jerry... no sir, I'm not a canon man, nikon all the way! and I know that its all relative to the situation and setting of the wedding, I was just curious.. I mean, every wedding I've done, I've taken almost the same gear to each one... so I was just wondering "generally what do you bring"


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## JerryPH (Dec 31, 2008)

anubis404 said:


> Wow Jerry, lots of good stuff. I'd be eager to see some of your work.



I'm far from "experienced professional" quality, but it's getting better all the time.

There are a lot of what one could call equivalent pictures... portraiture, off-camera flash and lots of low light stuff disbursed all over TPF from me.

I haven't made a shot that really impresses me, but maybe that would not be a bad goal for myself in 2009.


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## jcolman (Dec 31, 2008)

I'm also not an experienced wedding shooter (just started this year) but I do have a *little* experience behind a camera.

I take too much gear to a wedding but I'd rather have too much than not enough.  My standard package includes two bodies, six lenses, four speedlights, stands, modifiers, tripod.  I may also chose to take a monolight or two and big softbox for formals.

The pics below are from my ads.


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## anubis404 (Jan 1, 2009)

JerryPH said:


> I'm far from "experienced professional" quality, but it's getting better all the time.
> 
> There are a lot of what one could call equivalent pictures... portraiture, off-camera flash and lots of low light stuff disbursed all over TPF from me.
> 
> I haven't made a shot that really impresses me, but maybe that would not be a bad goal for myself in 2009.



Same here. My goal for 2009 is a "wow" photo. I've gotten plenty of great reactions to my work, but never a "wow". That's my goal.

Well, that and convincing my parents to let me get a motorcycle, but one thing at a time .


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## LarissaPhotography (Jan 1, 2009)

As the candid photographer for our wedding team, I have done the past few weddings using just my 10D and my 50mm F/1.8 lens.  I have been keeping another general purpose lens around thinking I'm going to have to switch lenses at some point during the day, but so far the F/1.8 has given me much better candid shots.  Plus I really don't have to worry about extra flash equipment with this lens since I'm using natural lighting.


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## dtornabene1 (Jan 1, 2009)

Peanuts said:


> Yay! Wedding photogs unite!
> 
> So as for gear, here is my list.
> 
> ...


 

Hey Brittany,

What do you use the TS for at a wedding?  No 50mm f/1.2?  Do you just use the 24-70 without the speed?  Is your 85 the f/1.2 or do you have the f/1.4?

Just curious.

-Nick
I am going to add this to my signature to save time in the future.  But here is the list of gear I use, and yes I bring it all with me.

Of Course, all Canon.

5DMII
50D
30D
580EX II
430 EX
All EF Mounts
85mm f/1.2 L II USM
50mm f/1.2 L USM
70-200mm f/2.8 L IS USM
16-35mm f2.8 L II USM
2x II and 1.4x II Teleconverters
EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM (Only as a backup to the 16-35mm on the 50D or 30D)
Sekonic Flash Master L-358 (Usually don't need)
Lumiquest MidiBouncer and the Sto-Fen Omni Bounce (Going to get the Gary Fong Pro Kit very soon)
Very seriously considering the new 24mm f1.4 L II when available and 180mm f/3.5 L Macro, and lastly, believe it or not, my first ever non-Canon lens, the Sigma AF APO 120-300mm f/2.8 DG HSM (Canon doesn't make a lens like this)


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## Peanuts (Jan 1, 2009)

I use the TS for more of an 'artistic'-ish look.  One has to make sure to not overdo it though.  The 85 is a 1.2 - lovely piece of glass.  I don't understand your question regarding the 24-70.


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## JerryPH (Jan 1, 2009)

dtornabene1 said:


> I am going to add this to my signature to save time in the future.



Actually gear lists in the sig are not permitted as per forum rules.  There is a place in the profile just for that.  This is what Terri, a forum mod PMed me.  I agree... the last thing we need to see, is a 2-3 word response and a 1/2 page equipment list for every post that everyone makes!


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## dtornabene1 (Jan 1, 2009)

Peanuts said:


> I use the TS for more of an 'artistic'-ish look. One has to make sure to not overdo it though. The 85 is a 1.2 - lovely piece of glass. I don't understand your question regarding the 24-70.


 

Well, its maximum aperture is 2.8.  You don't feel you are sacraficing speed by not using the 50mm prime?  Just wondering, not as though there is anything worng with that.

-Nick


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## ksmattfish (Jan 2, 2009)

I can cram most of my gear into a large duffle bag and a Pelican 1600 hardcase.  

The Pelican case has the lid net storage thing, and nylon/velcro dividers.  Inside it:
EOS 5D
EOS 40D
EOS 580EX
EOS 540EX
EOS 430EX
CTO gels
Tamron 70-200 f/2.8
Tamron 17-35 f/2.8-4
Tamron 28-75 f/2.8
Sigma 18-5 f/2.8 (APS-C)
Sigma 55-150 f/4-5.6 (APS-C)
EOS L 24-70 f/2.8
EOS 85 f/1.8
EOS 50 f/1.4
EOS 50 f/1.8
a whole lot of rechargeable AA batteries (2 dozen+)
2 EOS flash battery packs
EOS ST-E2 flash remote
a doz+ DSLR batteries
58mm, 67mm, and 77mm circ pol filters
Newton flash bracket
4 EOS ETTL off camera shoe cords (2 Canon brand, 2 Dot-Line brand)
4 lens cloths
40 gb compact flash cards (1, 2, 4 and 8 gb)
EOS cable release
EOS/Pocket Wizard remote cable release cord
4 Pocket Wizards
Pocket Wizard cords
ball bungees
rubber bands
black electrical tape
stick-on velcro strips
5"x8" mini softbox
Sekonic L-508 light meter
index cards and white hobby foam for DIY flash bouncer cards
black hobby foam (for snoot, flag, gobo, etc...)
tools:  multi-tool, screw drivers, needle nose, pliers, allen wrenches
pens
paper work:  contract, job notes/plans
business cards
2 tripod quick release plates
assorted flash, light stand, etc... adapters, cords, and other little gizmos
combo locks and cable (for locking case, and locking it to something)

In the duffle bag:  
16"x24" soft box
10"x10" soft box
speed rings
light stand heads
2 Vivitar 285HV flashes
Quantum battery pack for Viv 285hv
assorted cords and cables
Sto Fen Omnibounce 
GF Lightsphere
Jobo Gorilla pod
monopod
lint roller
spring clamps
ball bungees
duct tape
several small & mini tripods

Outside the bag and case:
3 light stands
Bogen tripod
6'x3' collapsible reflector (with assorted skins)
step stool
camera bag with 2 20D bodies:  1 is the back-up back-up, and the other has been modified for IR.  I haven't had much opportunity to try IR at weddings yet.

I think that's everything?  I take all that stuff, because you never know what will come in handy, but I rarely use it all at most weddings.

I don't know what my favorite wedding photo would be, how could I pick just one?  I shoot 35000+ wedding photos in a year.  I deliver 450ish photos to each couple, so that's 15000+ finished photos.  Then I try to narrow that down to the best for my website.  There are over 1500 wedding photos in my galleries (so look there for my favorites), and right now I'm sorting through the last half of 2008.  I've narrowed it down to 500+ new ones that need to be added.

Now here's my gear list for the first wedding I shot as the primary photographer 12 years ago:
Pentax K1000 w/ 50mm f/1.7 and 135mm f/2.5
Norita 66 w/ 80mm f/2
Sekonic L-508 light meter
tripod and cable release
Vivitar 285hv
old, clunky flash bracket
assorted cables
bag of film


And some of those photos are still on my website.


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## stsinner (Jan 2, 2009)

jcolman said:


> *I'm also not an experienced wedding shooter
> The pics below are from my ads.*



But your ad says different...  Just sayin'.  Surprised nobody else caught that.


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## chrisburke (Jan 2, 2009)

stsinner said:


> But your ad says different...  Just sayin'.  Surprised nobody else caught that.



lol... i didnt even look at the text.. just the images...  your post says that your not an experienced professional.. but your ad says you are...


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## stsinner (Jan 2, 2009)

Holy God!  You people are loaded for bear!  And apparently rich as hell...  I couldn't imagine having all that equipment..  

One question-looking for a consensus here-do you guys get rid of lenses once you're gotten a better one, or do you keep them around just in case?  To clarify, I've got a 50 1.8 manual lens, but I've since bought the autofocus version..  I probably won't use the manual anymore, but I can't bring myself to sell it.  Many of you seem to have many lenses that overlap the same focal ranges.


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## JerryPH (Jan 2, 2009)

stsinner said:


> Holy God!  You people are loaded for bear!


Less experienced people just do not have a clue as to what it takes to shoot a wedding.  Besides the fact that this is a ONE TIME event that can never be repeated, a wedding is one of the most difficult and challenging venues to do well out of ALL other forms of photography.  In no other aspects will you have fast movement, VERY low light, close and far distances to cover, non-stop action and such a variation of talents needed.  Low and mid-grade equipment *simply cannot* fill those needs properly or with any acceptable level of final results. Of course there are exceptions to any comment, but we are talking the majority here.  There will always be a few weddings done on bright days outside that last 2 hours, however, I think we can agree that the majority are done in dark rooms of homes, churches, and poorly lit reception halls and are one fast moving maniac of an event of motion from start to end.



stsinner said:


> One question-looking for a consensus here-do you guys get rid of lenses once you're gotten a better one, or do you keep them around just in case?



Everyone is different and entitled to their opinions, of course... but I don't even bother with low quality lenses, period.  Probably the "lowest quality" lens that I own is the Nikon 18-200 VR and this is the absolute best walk-around lens on the market.  Sure it vignettes a little and is not very sharp at both ends of it's range (both easily correctable in post process), however, in the 70-150mm ranges it is as sharp as the $1600US Nikkor 70-200mm lens (that I also own), at apertures between F/8-F/13.

I would rather do without photography for several months (saving up for a PROPER lens), than slap a kit lens on my D200 or D700.  IMHO, thats money that is tossed out the window uselessly.

People wishing to become serious wedding photographers basically have no choice.  You *must* have the high end lenses and good cameras to get the good pics (you'd also better be *damned good* at using them too!!!).  The demands of a wedding leave you no choice... well they do, but the choices are either to have the equipment... or NOT be able to get the best results that your client is paying you for... simple as that.

When I learned photography a little and wanted to do weddings, before I decided to do them, I mentored with a pro for 4 weddings and with that knowledge, I now *could* do them, but prefer not to.  The efforts required to run a proper photography business and to churn out quality results is incredibly more challenging than what 99% of the people realize, over and above the equipment demands... which is really the EASIEST part, after all, all it takes is money.  Learning the laws, business and of course quality photography practices are what I consider MINIMUM considerations on top of having $10,000 in equipment.


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## Big Mike (Jan 2, 2009)

I forgot to mention tools.  The fidst time I used my bracket, the screws came loose and I couldn't use it.  Now I carry a small selection of tools, including Allen keys.


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## ksmattfish (Jan 2, 2009)

stsinner said:


> Many of you seem to have many lenses that overlap the same focal ranges.



You have to have back ups of everything.  I've only ever used 1 off camera shoe cord at a time, but I've had 2 break at the same wedding, so now I carry 4.

Good gear makes it easier.  IMO almost everything sold today is amazing good gear.  I love my 5D, but I could still shoot weddings with 20Ds like I used to, or even film, gahhhhh....  If money wasn't an issue I'd buy 2 Nikon D3s with all the fixin's today.  Since money is an issue I'll probably be buying another 5D *mkI* (waiting for the price to drop  ).  I have yet to find a modern lens that wasn't way sharper than me.


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## Peanuts (Jan 2, 2009)

dtornabene1 said:


> Well, its maximum aperture is 2.8.  You don't feel you are sacraficing speed by not using the 50mm prime?  Just wondering, not as though there is anything worng with that.
> 
> -Nick



No not at all.  I usually use it out in natural light where there is an abundance of light (well... half of the day).  There is the odd time I will use it during the ceremony or reception (usually when it is really long and I am bored out of my socks and want to try something else.. that being said, I always have a second camera with me with a 'normal' lens like a 70-200mm so I don't miss anything), but during these times I will mount it on a tripod.


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## jcolman (Jan 2, 2009)

chrisburke said:


> lol... i didnt even look at the text.. just the images...  your post says that your not an experienced professional.. but your ad says you are...



I'm an experienced photographer, just not an experienced wedding photographer.  Brides don't have to know that.


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## ksmattfish (Jan 3, 2009)

Looking through my photos from this summer and fall my favorites are the unposed ones where I managed to be in the right place at the right time.

Bride's G-pa signing the marriage license 







Champagne!






Watch out!  More champagne...











This is probably my all time favorite from the summer.  It's not a difficult photo to come up with or take, but I love those windows (Mulvane Museum of Art, Topeka, KS).






600+ new wedding photos are up at mattneedham.com


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## chrisburke (Jan 3, 2009)

For those of you who shoot with a second photographer... do you have a contract with them (or if you are the second shooter, do they have one with you) or vice versa... 

i've got a couple of packages where I offer a second photographer (upon availability) and when they ask for it, I bring my friend in.... but for those of you who read a post this summer from me, I got screwed by a different friend... so in the future, i want to be able to bring a second photog if needed, but i want to have a contract that clearly states things like pay, use of images, things like that...  if any of you have a contract that you give, or have a copy of one that was given to you, can you send it my way to take a gander at.


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## stsinner (Jan 3, 2009)

Wow, ksmattfish, those are really good.  I was also looking through your wedding galleries, and you do some amazing low-light work.  I'm very impressed with your work.  Obviously a professional.


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## JerryPH (Jan 3, 2009)

chrisburke said:


> For those of you who shoot with a second photographer... do you have a contract with them (or if you are the second shooter, do they have one with you) or vice versa...
> 
> i've got a couple of packages where I offer a second photographer (upon availability) and when they ask for it, I bring my friend in.... but for those of you who read a post this summer from me, I got screwed by a different friend... so in the future, i want to be able to bring a second photog if needed, but i want to have a contract that clearly states things like pay, use of images, things like that...  if any of you have a contract that you give, or have a copy of one that was given to you, can you send it my way to take a gander at.



I had a signed agreement that everything I took on that day was their property and I was not allowed to use it in any way shape or form.  The other 3 were a verbal agreement of the same kind and only a handshake to confirm it.

It is not hard to come up with something like that.  It can even be in point form, short and brief, and as long as it is dated and signed by both, it is legally binding.  Just cover points like how much they are to be paid, duration of the work day, to whom the copyright belongs to, and whether or not they can use the pictures for non-profit or portfolio use and perhaps if posted on the web, what are the maximum pixel sizes and resolution permitted.

The KISS method is the best.


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## chrisburke (Jan 3, 2009)

JerryPH said:


> I had a signed agreement that everything I took on that day was their property and I was not allowed to use it in any way shape or form.  The other 3 were a verbal agreement of the same kind and only a handshake to confirm it.
> 
> It is not hard to come up with something like that.  It can even be in point form, short and brief, and as long as it is dated and signed by both, it is legally binding.  Just cover points like how much they are to be paid, duration of the work day, to whom the copyright belongs to, and whether or not they can use the pictures for non-profit or portfolio use and perhaps if posted on the web, what are the maximum pixel sizes and resolution permitted.
> 
> The KISS method is the best.



you dont happen to have a copy of the one you signed do you??  I do understand that its smart to follow the KISS principle, but, seeing as I want to look as professional as I can, i would like a contract that has a professional look to it..


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## JerryPH (Jan 4, 2009)

chrisburke said:


> you dont happen to have a copy of the one you signed do you??



Sure I do. You need the exact wording form it?  It was not drawn up by a lawyer and is not the most professional document out there, it was just a series of points that we agreed upon and both signed, as I mentioned.  Most of what is in it are already here.

Let me know and I can duplicate it here or on a PM if you want.


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## chrisburke (Jan 4, 2009)

JerryPH said:


> Sure I do. You need the exact wording form it?  It was not drawn up by a lawyer and is not the most professional document out there, it was just a series of points that we agreed upon and both signed, as I mentioned.  Most of what is in it are already here.
> 
> Let me know and I can duplicate it here or on a PM if you want.



i would love a copy, it just gives me something to work from to create my own.. I'm not so good with the coming up of the words and the putting them together!! so having something to go from would help a lot!


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## DWS (Jan 4, 2009)

this book may be of interest:  [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Business-Legal-Forms-Photographers-CD-ROM/dp/158115206X]Amazon.com: Business and Legal Forms for Photographers (with CD-ROM): Tad Crawford: Books[/ame]


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## McQueen278 (Jan 4, 2009)

Here is one from the last wedding I shot that was a surprisingly huge hit with my customers.






I've never had a picture of a groomsman sell so well.


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## JerryPH (Jan 4, 2009)

Posting a copy is not going to help many people here, as it is in French, but the translation is basically as such:

This is a legal and binding agreement between (his name and company) and (my full name).  It is agreed that (his name) is to mentor (my name) in the aspects concerning photography.  It shall include both the business and photographic aspects with a focus on basic to advanced photographic techniques oriented to wedding photography.  The mentoring has a final goal of (my name) becoming an effective secondary wedding photographer.  

Upon completion of training, (his company name) guarantees that (my full name) shall assist as a secondary wedding photographer for the sole benefit of gaining real life experience. This is a one time only event and no other promises or guarantees of future participation or employment are offered or implied.

In that (his company name) is offering their knowledge, training and the opportunity of experience at an actual wedding event, (my full name) agrees to the following points without reservation:

- that there is no monetary compensation involved.  The business transaction is the exchange of information on the part of (his company name) and the return of services as a secondary photographer by (my full name).

- that (my full name) is receiving information, knowledge and experience from (his company name) for the sole benefit of experience and knowledge only and shall not open or operate any manner of business that can be construed as competition against (his company name) for a minimum of 24 months.

- that any and all photographs taken by (my full name) while within the activity as a secondary photographer for (his company name), remain the exclusive property of (his company name) and that (my full name) may not under any condition, use any photographs for any reason. These reasons include, but are not limited to,  public or private display on the internet or portfolio use.

Signed, agreed to and witnessed by:


(his company name) .................. (my name) ......... (witness name) 
on this date of (date) in the city of (city of signing of the contract)

And that is pretty much it in a nutshell.


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## chrisburke (Jan 4, 2009)

thanks jerry!


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## rufus5150 (Jan 4, 2009)

> I've never had a picture of a groomsman sell so well.



That's a blackmail photo. The bride and groom are still on an all-expense paid vacation, I imagine


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