# Flash power question



## LizardKing (Sep 3, 2012)

Hello there!

I've been doing some practice with off-camera flash lately, and there's something strange going on I don't have a clue why is happening and maybe you do 

So, I have all ready to play with some waterdrops with the SB-700 in Manual at 1/8 -0.3 power and having so much fun... But whenever I try to set the power to 1/8 or higher, all I get is a black picture as if the lens' cap was on. Switch back to 1/8 -0.3 or lower and we're good again.

Batteries are supposedly good... 4 eneloops I bought last week recharged a couple of hours ago and fired only about 150 pics (at 1/8 -0.3 power)

Only thing I can think of is that the batteries don't have enough charge to shoot more than this power... but is that how it works? I feel like I can keep shooting at that power w/o any troubles but it's just a matter of setting it to 1/8 or higher and all is black. So doesn't seem like it. I don't know, maybe this sounds like a stupid question... help please?


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## Karloz (Sep 3, 2012)

Is the flash actually firing when you getting "black" photos? (silly question i Know but had to ask. Maybe if youi could get hold of light meter / Flash meter you could measure out put of the flash at the various adjustments so you know what the actual output is ie what GN

Hope this helps ??


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## tirediron (Sep 3, 2012)

No, that's not how it works.  Your SB700 uses a capacitive charging system ('thyristor') which acts like a miniature battery itself and is "charged" from the flashe's battery power.  If your batteries are low, then it simply takes longer to charge.

First of all:  When you increase the flash'es power, do you see the red 'Ready' light illuminate?  If so, that means the flash has the power to strobe at whatever output level is currently applied.  

What kind of triggers are you using, and what shutter-speed do you have set on your camera?

When you get these black pictures - there's absolutely NO detail at all in them?


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## LizardKing (Sep 3, 2012)

Karloz said:


> Is the flash actually firing when you getting "black" photos? (silly question i Know but had to ask. Maybe if youi could get hold of light meter / Flash meter you could measure out put of the flash at the various adjustments so you know what the actual output is ie what GN
> 
> Hope this helps ??



Yes, the flash is firing and unfortunately I don't have a meter. Thanks for your response!


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## MK3Brent (Sep 3, 2012)

Sync speed.
What's your shutter speed?

Faster than 1/250 and you'll catch the shutter curtain on your exposure.


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## LizardKing (Sep 3, 2012)

tirediron said:


> No, that's not how it works.  Your SB700 uses a capacitive charging system ('thyristor') which acts like a miniature battery itself and is "charged" from the flashe's battery power.  If your batteries are low, then it simply takes longer to charge.
> 
> First of all:  When you increase the flash'es power, do you see the red 'Ready' light illuminate?  If so, that means the flash has the power to strobe at whatever output level is currently applied.
> 
> ...



Yes, the red light illuminates and I hear the sound beep. I'm using my camera flash to trigger the SB-700 and the SS is 1/250th but I also tried to lower it to 1/200 or even 1/160.
There's no detail in the black pictures except for maybe 1 o 2 small 'dots' that maybe are underexposed highlights or something but they're no bigger than a pixel or so... So I'm not sure what they are, actually.

What's bugging me is that when I increase the power I'm not changing any other setting in the camera or flash besides that.

Thanks for your response, tirediron!


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## tirediron (Sep 3, 2012)

Wow, that's a good one.  It sounds like the flash is totally out of sync with the camera when you increase the speed, which makes absolutely NO sense whatsoever. The exposure is fine every time at 1/8 -.3, but at nothing else.  Have you tried EVERY setting right from full power on down?  Does everything function normally when you set the flash to TTL?


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## Mach0 (Sep 3, 2012)

How are you firing them?


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## KmH (Sep 3, 2012)

Capacitor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thyristor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## ZapoTeX (Sep 4, 2012)

Hey, just my 2 cents here. My flashes (Metz's for Nikon though, not SB's) NEVER display 1/8 -0.3, they would read 1/10. Is it normal for Nikon flashes to display such power setting?


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## tirediron (Sep 4, 2012)

ZapoTeX said:


> Hey, just my 2 cents here. My flashes (Metz's for Nikon though, not SB's) NEVER display 1/8 -0.3, they would read 1/10. Is it normal for Nikon flashes to display such power setting?


Yes.  Two different ways of saying [almost] the same things.


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## LizardKing (Sep 4, 2012)

tirediron said:


> Wow, that's a good one.  It sounds like the flash is totally out of sync with the camera when you increase the speed, which makes absolutely NO sense whatsoever. The exposure is fine every time at 1/8 -.3, but at nothing else.  Have you tried EVERY setting right from full power on down?  Does everything function normally when you set the flash to TTL?



Maybe 'speed' is another way to refer to the power of the flash, but just to be clear: I'm not changing the speed but the power. After seeing the black pictures, I tried lowering the SS in the camera just in case that would be better to synch with the SB-700. 

Now, haven't really tried all settings between 1/8 - 0.3 and full power, but I did tried about 4 or 5. I'll try the rest later today. Same for the TTL function.
Thanks again for your responses.


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## LizardKing (Sep 4, 2012)

Mach0 said:


> How are you firing them?


Cable release. Is that what you mean?


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## tirediron (Sep 4, 2012)

LizardKing said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> > Wow, that's a good one.  It sounds like the flash is totally out of sync with the camera when you increase the speed, which makes absolutely NO sense whatsoever. The exposure is fine every time at 1/8 -.3, but at nothing else.  Have you tried EVERY setting right from full power on down?  Does everything function normally when you set the flash to TTL?
> ...


Sorry, where I said "speed" I meant to say "power" as in flash output power. I hate to say this, but it sounds to me from all that you've said like your flash is not working correctly.


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## LizardKing (Sep 4, 2012)

tirediron said:


> LizardKing said:
> 
> 
> > tirediron said:
> ...



I was afraid of this but, since I'm still learning how to use it, I wasn't sure if I was doing something wrong.
So, I did some further tests:

1) Mounted the flash onto the camera and used the TTL function. It seems to be ok.
2) Kept the flash mounted and tried different powers in Manual: 1/16, 1/8, 1/4, 1/2 and 1/1... All worked properly.
3) Removed the flash and triggered it remotely using my on-camera flash, trying different powers: 1/16 and 1/8 look good but 1/4, 1/2 and 1/1 are really dark. This time I had some room lighting so I'm thinking that's the only light I'm seeing in the picture.

So, based on this, it seems there's some kind of problem to synch the flash with the camera when using something stronger than 1/8, as you said.

I believe at some point I'll take it into the official Nikon service, but I bought it in the US so I'm afraid I'll have to pay for the repairs. In the meantime, it seems to me the way to go would be to use a cable to be able to use off-camera flash properly. Any other ideas would be most welcomed!

Have a nice day!


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## tirediron (Sep 4, 2012)

Are you in fully manual or aperture priority?  Is there a chance that your aperture is being changed as a result of something you're doing?


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## LizardKing (Sep 4, 2012)

tirediron said:


> Are you in fully manual or aperture priority?  Is there a chance that your aperture is being changed as a result of something you're doing?


Nop... Both camera and flash are in full manual


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## KmH (Sep 4, 2012)

Yep! Sure sounds like something is AFU, and in need of repair.

A fair number of airplane crashes these days happen because the pilots don't get that the airplane they are trying to fly is malfunctioning.

In other words, dependence on auto this and auto that can in the long run make it nearly impossible to sort device malfunctions from MSTO situations.


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## LizardKing (Sep 5, 2012)

Guys, any recommendations to be able to use off-camera flash in it's full capacity? Wireless or Wired? If wired: coiled or straight? Nikon or third party?

I know it's a matter of personal taste. Just tell me yours, please 

I usually don't like to buy the same thing more than once. Always try to get it right the first time and forget about it. So, if that means paying the extra cost of the Nikon one, so be it. Would you recommend something like these:

Nikon SC-28 TTL Remote Cord - Coiled 3-9' 4765 B&H Photo Video
Nikon SC-29 TTL Off-Camera Shoe Cord with AF Assist - Coiled


Thanks again!


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## MLeeK (Sep 5, 2012)

You are using the on-board as the commander, right? Have you tried wired or trigger/receiver? 
This is my guess: Your on-board is firing and the SB is firing just a bit too slow of a reaction time at the higher powers. 
I read or heard McNally explain it or something... about how the on board isn't recorded on the image because it's actually firing early (my terms, not technical or correct in any way) to fire the SB at the right time. I'd venture to guess form that, that perhaps there is a setting in the commander menu (Guessing, I don't shoot nikon!) that could be changed and not working correctly??? 

Totally thinking there... Maybe it'll help?


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## LizardKing (Sep 5, 2012)

MLeeK said:


> This is my guess: Your on-board is firing and the SB is firing just a bit too slow of a reaction time at the higher powers.
> I read or heard McNally explain it or something... about how the on board isn't recorded on the image because it's actually firing early (my terms, not technical or correct in any way) to fire the SB at the right time. I'd venture to guess form that, that perhaps there is a setting in the commander menu (Guessing, I don't shoot nikon!) that could be changed and not working correctly???
> 
> Totally thinking there... Maybe it'll help?



Thanks MLeek! I'm still learning how to use all this, but I don't think I have any options/parameters to set when I use the on-board flash in 'Commander' mode. I just checked it, because maybe there was some sort of calibration to do, but nothing there 



MLeeK said:


> You are using the on-board as the commander, right? Have you tried wired or trigger/receiver?


Please take a look to my previous message, right above yours, where I was actually asking for recommendations/suggestions about wired/wireless connections.


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## MLeeK (Sep 5, 2012)

Sorry! I was thinking... not paying attention! LOL!


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## LizardKing (Sep 5, 2012)

MLeeK said:


> Sorry! I was thinking... not paying attention! LOL!


Oh no, I didn't mean that. I was just asking for your opinion


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