# I am FUMING mad!!!!!!!!!!!!



## SabrinaO (Feb 14, 2011)

I posted my photography ads on craigslist on my "Free newborn photoshoots" but they were mysteriously getting flagged, and therefore deleted. I suspected it could of been another photographer doing it because I saw their ads on there too. But I also suspected it could of just been a paranoid prude flagging it also. But regardless of the situation, it was upsetting and frustrating. 

FLASH FORWARD to two days ago. I had my first newborn shoot and during the shoot the client told me that another photographer contacted her after she(my client) posted on my wall. This "photographer" was basically trying to get my client to go with her services instead of mines. But my client wasn't hearing it and closed the chat.

First of all, im a new photographer just starting out and im just trying to build up my portfolio and make a name for myself. And to have some %$#* lurk my page and try to steal my customers while im offering a FREE photoshoot stung really deep. So in the heat of the moment, after the shoot I left a message ON HER WALL basically saying how disrespectful and desperate her behavior is. I also said if she were any good and was confident in her ability she wouldn't feel the need to steal customers. Yes, that wasn't professional, but I didn't curse her out or anything. :er: But this "photographer" is the WORST PHOTOGRAPHER I HAVE EVER SEEN! She uses tons of cheesy, tacky and cheap props and gimmicks basically to compensate for her lack of photography skills. But people seem to be flocking to her because her prices are so dirt cheap. I guess people get what they pay for. 

Anyways... over the past few days ive been getting messages from other photographers thanking me for speaking out. Apparently they have been told by their clients too that she was lurking their walls and contacting the people that post on their walls.One photographer told me she had to move because of how much business she was taking. (they had studios near each other.) Another photographer even told me that she was stealing her pics to use for her ads on craigslist. 

Anyways so here I am right now.. extrememly discouraged and I don't know what to do. I blocked her fan page and her personal page from my fan page, but does that mean she can't see my page at all??? This is Facebook that I'm talking about for those of you that don't know. 
I just don't know what to do. Should I lower my prices? The ONLY advantage this girl has are her prices. She does $20-$75 fly by sessions including cd's with "up to 600" pics. I mean I could do that too, but theres no quality in that, and I'm all about quality. 

Anyways, thanks for letting me rant. 

Also.. I don't care: Here is the link to her FB just so you know another reason why this whole situation is upsetting. Her photography is horrendous!
http://www.facebook.com/pages/KBG-Photography/138849616158510 
http://www.kbgphotography.webs.com


----------



## RauschPhotography (Feb 14, 2011)

Wow, that's terrible--both the situation and her photography! How does she think she'll even get your clients with business ethics like that, anyways?


----------



## MegR (Feb 14, 2011)

OMG - I am still learning but I would like to say even my photos are much better then those. As a parent who loves pics of her kids I would be PISSED if those pics came back from my photographer. Eeeekkkkk =( 

Honestly if you have a lawyer friend or an attorney on retainer I would have them send a letter stating if she doesn't stop you will take her to court. Even if you have no intentions of doing so it may scare her and she may stop. 

Good Luck
Meg


----------



## cnutco (Feb 14, 2011)

Welcome to the soccer mom's world of photography... sorry, but they are out there with nothing else to do.

Let's see some pics.

Good luck!


----------



## bigtwinky (Feb 14, 2011)

I'm confused, some things you say kind of contradict each other. You say up top you are doing free shoots, but then near the end, you ask if you should lower your prices? Do you mean you will pay people to shoot them?

There are always varying levels of photographers to chose from. You have the bottom feeders, those who offer crap images for cheap, you have the middle of the road people, and you have the high end full time working pros. Prices vary at each level. If you truly want to make a name for yourself, the first thing to do is get yourself out of the bottom feeder level. Let your work speak for itself. It will be harder to build a client base, but if you build a base with good solid images, and not just dirt cheap prices, you are building a longer lasting client relationship. Again, it will take more time. Quick money is doing dirt cheap crap. 

The photography market is huge with competition. Digital is so accessible and can produce good results even in automatic. So someone can shoot 600 images and get 10 keepers. I prefer to shoot 60 images and have 60 keepers (not like I do, but I prefer that  )

I think that your reaction, while called for, is wrong. You should take the highroad and be professional. If you know what you did was not professional, then why did you do it? Do you expect to charge professional rates and get away with not acting professionally towards clients? 

What you posted on your wall is seen by her fan list. All they see is two immature people posting sh!t at each other. If I contacted you for photos, and she contacted me, I'd compare and see the crap you guys are posting and say to hell with both of you, I'll find someone who can at least act professionally. You need to walk the walk.   Nothing stops you from sending her a message or what not. 

I've found that clients who always want dirt cheap stuff are often the harder ones to work with. And really, the bottom feeders can have them. I was asked to shoot a 14 hour wedding, provide all edited images on a DVD for $400. No thanks. Not even under the excuse of needing more portfolio stuff. I have set a standard for what I want to accomplish and will stick to that.

It is hard to have a consistent client base in any business. Nothing different in photography. Don't expect to get one when you are at the learning and evolving stages. But the one thing I can suggest, for the few you get, make damn sure they get a good service, a professional service, and top notch images so they WILL come back. Engagement or love sessions lead to weddings. Weddings will lead to maternity. Maternity will lead to newborn. Newborn will lead to family pictures. All the while referrals making their way out.

You should check the Facebook help pages for the blocking. I know when I block someone on my personal page, they dont see me, my images or anything I post. As I am the owner of the fan page, I would assume that blocking carries on to the page, but confirm with them.



> I guess people get what they pay for.


 
Aren't you shooting for free? Sorry, couldn't resist.


----------



## New Hampshire (Feb 14, 2011)

MegR said:


> OMG - I am still learning but I would like to say even my photos are much better then those. As a parent who loves pics of her kids I would be PISSED if those pics came back from my photographer. Eeeekkkkk =(


 
Alas, this is the problem in general (and why this woman is obviously still in business).  You see you, I and we know what accepted standards are...what is good photography and what is not.  But most parents don't.  All they see is something that looks better than what came out of the $100 WalMart point and shoot.  And they are happy with that.  And I guess if they are happy then that is all that matters.  But it is kind of a travesty that so many parents will accept that kind of standard.  And a bit of the "my child" thing probably plays into it also.  They sit there and think everything about their child "is sooooo cute", even if poorly photographed next to a cheesy prop.  And obviously this woman is playing off that sentiment to selly her poor photography.

But, all that aside, I agree that her business practices alone make her a pretty poor excuse for a human.  I don't think she is doing anything "legally" wrong, but it is very deceitful, underhanded and low.

Brian


----------



## bigtwinky (Feb 14, 2011)

MegR said:


> Honestly if you have a lawyer friend or an attorney on retainer I would have them send a letter stating if she doesn't stop you will take her to court. Even if you have no intentions of doing so it may scare her and she may stop.


 
Take her to court for what??  She isn't a registered business, she is just someone with a camera learning and shooting.  

Seriously, again, take the high road and differentiate yourself with your images and professional service.

Build a solid business and a solid reputation..and they will come


----------



## Robin Usagani (Feb 14, 2011)

LOL.. this is why I am staying away from "Family Portraits".  If someone asks me, ill do it.. but i wont advertise left and right.  The market is just full of _ _ _.


----------



## cnutco (Feb 14, 2011)

bigtwinky said:


> Seriously, again, take the high road and differentiate yourself with your images and professional service.
> 
> Build a solid business and a solid reputation..and they will come



NICELY SAID!:thumbup:


----------



## rambler (Feb 14, 2011)

Take bigtwinky's advice.  You will always have competition.  Do not lower your prices.  In fact consider raising them.  Maybe that would lead to fewer customers, but you could do an even better job with each with more time per customer.  Having fewer customers who pay more equals more customers at cheaper prices.  People who spend more, will expect more, too.

When Tiffany's could not sell an expensive necklace from out of the display cabinets, they put it in its own special display case in a prominent position and raised the price.  The piece sold quickly.

Friends of mine who rented out a first floor apartment in their home had problem with renters leaving without paying rent and taking poor care of the place, complaining.  So, my friends raised the rent and ended up with much better renters who paid on time and took better care of the place.

Maybe you could use discounts or specials, but do not let your competition determine your pricing.  Don't be out to gouge people, but consider what your work is worth and price accordingly. Think quality rather than quantity.  In your promo take a photo from that competitor and have it next to one of yours to point out how your photo is better.

My daughter was married recently and the photographer had a wide range of options and pricing.  We selected an option she had of spending an afternoon hanging out with the wedding party the day before the wedding.  They were all surfing at the beach.  Some fun photos in the relaxed setting resulted.

Do not let your competition get you down.  Do what you do best and go with it.  You can learn from good competitors, too.

I have a friend who is a successful professional.  During recent hard times and lay-offs, he has many calls from people with digital cameras wanting to learn from him on "how to do it".   How to make money from photography.
It took him many hours of hard work when he started out especially since he started in the days of film only.

One of his jobs was to sit in the center field bleachers, and with a huge telephoto lens, take a picture of every single pitch of a World Series. Another of his jobs took him to Egypt to take pictures for the annual report of a fine arts museum.  He has photographed musicians of symphony orchestras for advertisements.  In the beginning he chased ambulances, police cars, and fire trucks.  A dramatic shot of a fireman rescuing an infant won him notoriety.  I rarely see him without his camera. Hard work usually pays off.  Don't get discouraged.

Another photographer I know takes portraits of peoples pets.  Oh, well.  Another pro was also our kids nursery school teacher.  We have some treasured black and white photos of our kids smeared in finger paints and working seriously at block building.  Have fun.


----------



## Village Idiot (Feb 14, 2011)

bigtwinky said:


> MegR said:
> 
> 
> > Honestly if you have a lawyer friend or an attorney on retainer I would have them send a letter stating if she doesn't stop you will take her to court. Even if you have no intentions of doing so it may scare her and she may stop.
> ...


 
Like this person:
Copyright Infringements and a 5 year old.... - Canon Digital Photography Forums

I read this the other day and was shocked by the alleged actions of the offending party. The OP however (haven't read this since Friday) has chosen not to retaliate, which is smart.


----------



## kundalini (Feb 14, 2011)

Old Abe was a wise man.



> "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."


 


bigtwinky ain't too shabby either.


----------



## Bram (Feb 14, 2011)

So if I get this right, you're running a free photography business through facebook?


----------



## mwcfarms (Feb 14, 2011)

Take this energy you have and direct it towards bettering your craft. There are always people like this out there. I wouldn't worry about it. Chances are you don't want her clientele if they are satisfied with her work.


----------



## ababysean (Feb 14, 2011)

I shot a boudior seminar a few months ago, it was a paid thing, and taught posing and how to use the lights....
I posted a few pictures on facebook and I had a local boudior/pinup photographer send me nasty mean messages about how she is the ONLY photog in my area allowed to do Pin Up because she did it first! 
Ummmmm what?  Pin up photography was done before we were born!

I just laughed and let it slide.

But we work with many of the same models and have similar friends and I hear it through the sewing circle that she talks badly about me every chance she gets.....  sigh.


----------



## bigtwinky (Feb 14, 2011)

Bram said:


> So if I get this right, you're running a free photography business through facebook?


 
Obviously you failed at reading comprehension


----------



## Bram (Feb 14, 2011)

bigtwinky said:


> Bram said:
> 
> 
> > So if I get this right, you're running a free photography business through facebook?
> ...


 
Enlighten me.


----------



## GooniesNeverSayDie11 (Feb 14, 2011)

If she doesn't actually have a legit registered business, but is charging money on a regular basis, call the IRS and anonymously report tax fraud on her. Uncle Sam hatesssss when they don't get their cut and i would bet she doesnt record this income on her tax returns if its not her main job.

At best, she gets a fine. At worst, she gets an audit.


----------



## inaka (Feb 14, 2011)

When you get a flagged post removed on CL, just repost it.
If it gets flagged again, repost it again, etc.
Don't go to the "why did my ad get flagged" forum, and simply copy/paste the ad text in a Word document or something for easy reposting.

I just sold a PowerMac G5 and my ad was constantly flagged and removed. So where other G5 ads so I assume it was by someone selling their own G5 and afraid of competition. It was so obvious that another G5 seller posted his own ad, just saying "Stop flagging my ad!" LOL.

It's a huge flaw of CL, however, what these flaggers don't realize is that when you repost your ad, your ad will go to the top of the search.
You win.


----------



## bigtwinky (Feb 14, 2011)

GooniesNeverSayDie11 said:


> If she doesn't actually have a legit registered business, but is charging money on a regular basis, call the IRS and anonymously report tax fraud on her. Uncle Sam hatesssss when they don't get their cut and i would bet she doesnt record this income on her tax returns if its not her main job.
> At best, she gets a fine. At worst, she gets an audit.


 
Problem is, if the OP also charges and isn't a legit business (as she said in part of her post), then the same can be done to her.

Maybe it's just my attitude, but other than directly communicating with the other photographer, seeing as you will always get these types of people, some are better left ignored, or at least, leaving the bickering out of the public eye.


----------



## bigtwinky (Feb 14, 2011)

Bram said:


> bigtwinky said:
> 
> 
> > Bram said:
> ...


 
Having a FB page doesn't mean you operate a free business through facebook.  I have one, hell, Scott Kelby has one.  Its a marketing tool as is most of social media.  Using it to leverage your company is key to being successful.  At least, until the next big thing hits and everyone moves to that.

As for a free business, she said she was doing free newborn shoots.  She later said she had prices, so I'm thinking she charges for some standard work and is trying to make her way into newborn shoots, and offering free images to learn with.  

So I think you didn't get it right, but again, the OPs words are a little mixed, could be from the fumes of the fuming


----------



## gsgary (Feb 14, 2011)

From what i read you were undercutting her, this is what you get by running your life on Facebook


----------



## Village Idiot (Feb 14, 2011)

GooniesNeverSayDie11 said:


> If she doesn't actually have a legit registered business, but is charging money on a regular basis, call the IRS and anonymously report tax fraud on her. Uncle Sam hatesssss when they don't get their cut and i would bet she doesnt record this income on her tax returns if its not her main job.
> 
> At best, she gets a fine. At worst, she gets an audit.


 
In the US you can make up to a certain amount of money each year before you have to claim it.


----------



## Bitter Jeweler (Feb 14, 2011)

Village Idiot said:


> In the US you can make up to a certain amount of money each year before you have to claim it.


 
Isn't it a ridiculously low amount?

I posted in this thread, and you cannot substitute your reality for mine.


----------



## Village Idiot (Feb 14, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> Village Idiot said:
> 
> 
> > In the US you can make up to a certain amount of money each year before you have to claim it.
> ...


 
I think it's about a grand. Not too redonkulous for $50 photo shoots of 600 photos with a CD included.

My reality is the only real reality.


----------



## Ryan L (Feb 14, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> Isn't it a ridiculously low amount?


 
If I remember correctly it's 400/year


----------



## ~Stella~ (Feb 14, 2011)

GooniesNeverSayDie11 said:


> If she doesn't actually have a legit registered business, but is charging money on a regular basis, call the IRS and anonymously report tax fraud on her. Uncle Sam hatesssss when they don't get their cut and i would bet she doesnt record this income on her tax returns if its not her main job.
> 
> At best, she gets a fine. At worst, she gets an audit.



In the US, you don't need a "registered business" (either an incorporated entity or an assumed name certificate) if you do business (and pay income taxes) under your own name.  There is nothing about the original post that suggests anyone is committing tax fraud.


----------



## GooniesNeverSayDie11 (Feb 14, 2011)

First, this is true that you do not need a registered business. However, someone with a real legitimate business is much more likely to be paying their taxes. So it wouldnt work. Perhaps the OP would be able to be reported as well (but free shoots, dont usually garner a profit ) also this would be anonymous. As the OP stated, there are many photogs seemingly with the same thing happenning, so I doubt this person could single you out as the rat.

As for the amount made in a year, that is why I said they would have to be consistently making money. By the OPs statements, it seems this person poaches many other peoples clients, so it would be assumed that its probably been worth her while to do so.


----------



## quiddity (Feb 14, 2011)

if you don't like competition you could always become a real estate agent


----------



## GooniesNeverSayDie11 (Feb 14, 2011)

~Stella~ said:


> There is nothing about the original post that suggests anyone is committing tax fraud.




Actually there is. The business practices of the offender cast a huge shadow of doubt over their honesty and integrity as a whole. Thats how lawyers win cases all day long without hard evidence.


----------



## New Hampshire (Feb 14, 2011)

Whoa whoa whoa, for starters we are making a rather large leap that the OP is not actually claiming her income from these shots.  I don't believe the OP actually made any statement to the fact that she was not claiming said moneys.

Brian


----------



## bigtwinky (Feb 14, 2011)

No, no one is saying that.  Just like all threads, they tend to deviate after a bit.


----------



## Boomn4x4 (Feb 14, 2011)

Facebook and Craigs list can be valuable marketing tools.  You just need to learn how to use them to your advantage... and it sounds like your competition is doing just that.


----------



## KmH (Feb 14, 2011)

If you are self-employed, you don't have to file a return if you made less than $400 in the taxable year. Do You Need to File a Federal Income Tax Return?

Of course if you can't make $400 in a 12 month period ($33.33 a month), it's a _real stretch_ to be calling yourself self-employed. :er:

Any illegal business being conducted in a state that has sales taxes, needs to worry more about their state government than the Feds. 

Business registration/licensing requirements are local/regional laws, and vary by town/city/and county in the US.

In states that have sales taxes, a business must register with the state sales tax agency.

Oh, I was going to mention some of the best business advice I ever got, ""Mind your own business, not the other guy's."


----------



## ababysean (Feb 14, 2011)

What I am confused, is it $400 after expenses of before?


----------



## ~Stella~ (Feb 14, 2011)

GooniesNeverSayDie11 said:


> ~Stella~ said:
> 
> 
> > There is nothing about the original post that suggests anyone is committing tax fraud.
> ...



I agree the competitor here sounds like a real asshole, but this is a very silly statement.  Apparently you haven't spent much time inside a courtroom.


----------



## ~Stella~ (Feb 14, 2011)

ababysean said:


> What I am confused, is it $400 after expenses of before?


 Net income.


----------



## bigtwinky (Feb 14, 2011)

Ill go out on a limb, but id think its $400 income.  But hey, he posted the link, check it out and let us know


----------



## ghache (Feb 14, 2011)

LOL peoples are retarded, I had a situation like this happening to me when i took turned my photography into a business . I have one friend i went to school with (a really good friend) wont talk to me anymore and talk **** behind my back to our common friends saying that i am not good because i didnt went to school to be a photographer LOL. I just let it go. No time to deal with kids LOL

And its not like im stealing business from him. we live 1000 miles away from each other hahahah


----------



## gsgary (Feb 14, 2011)

bigtwinky said:


> Ill go out on a limb, but id think its $400 income.  But hey, he posted the link, check it out and let us know




WOW thats not much, this is what it say on the UK gov website
*Income Tax*

Everyone can earn a certain amount each year  without paying any Income Tax. This is called your Personal Allowance.  In 2010-11 the Personal Allowance is £6,475. Some people can earn a bit  more before they start paying tax, if they're over 65, for example.
There  are a number of other allowances and reliefs you may be able to claim  to reduce your tax bill - and in some cases mean youve no tax to pay. 


*
*


----------



## GooniesNeverSayDie11 (Feb 14, 2011)

~Stella~ said:


> GooniesNeverSayDie11 said:
> 
> 
> > ~Stella~ said:
> ...


 
First off, my original statement about the tax fraud, was half kidding, but it turned into a debate. 


As for my statement, sure it was a little simplified, but I assure you that it is quite true. ( I did not mean it in reference to prosecuting this specific case, since that would be silly and the IRS wouldn't prosecute you unless of course you did not pay up. Also they would not fine you unless they did have solid proof. ) What I meant was, lawyers use assumptions to discredit witnesses or plaintiff/defendent in front of a jury ( or a judge ). They paint a picture of the type of person they are in order to show the probablity that someones actions are very likely, or to show that someones testimony cannot be trusted due to prior transgressions. It doesn't matter how much time I have spent in a court room. I have a family member that is a lawyer and a county judge ( not that it matters much since this is pretty basic stuff ). If you refute these simple trial basics, you are the silly one.:thumbup:


----------



## ~Stella~ (Feb 14, 2011)

GooniesNeverSayDie11 said:


> ~Stella~ said:
> 
> 
> > GooniesNeverSayDie11 said:
> ...



It's a complicated issue, not nearly as simple as you've stated.  Whether an individual has a rap sheet of drug offenses (or assault charges or whatever) a mile long is likely to be guilty of another_ similar_ offense is totally different than suggesting that because someone is guilty of certain Craigslist (or was if FB?) transgressions (legal though they may be) is also guilty of illegal conduct.  In fact - most naughty acts like that are not even admissible unless they are extremely pertinent to the case - and even then will not be permitted if they are overly prejudicial.  For example, a DWI charge from 5 years ago is absolutely not going to be allowed in court to prove you breached your business contract this year, KWIM?  It just doesn't work like that.

Suggesting someone has broken a law that they have not broken is considered in some states to be (civil) libel (or slander - depending on the format, obviously) per se (meaning the only defense would be actual proof of the crime).  Should your libelous activity be brought up in court the next time you get a speeding ticket?  Of course not - that's just goofy.  And a big waste of time - which judges tend to get pretty grumpy about.

My point is that there _are _some very specific reasons to bring prior bad acts in, but to theorize that attorneys can just bring in any old fact, completely unrelated to the case at hand, into the case to prove their point...well, that's the stuff of TV courtrooms.  And it makes for good drama, but like so many other things on TV - it just doesn't happen in the real world.

That said, I like your username and I've liked some of your other posts, so I'd be willing to hold hands and sing Kumbaya at this point.  It is Valentine's Day and all.


----------



## Bitter Jeweler (Feb 14, 2011)

~Stella~ said:


> My point is that there _are _some very specific reasons to bring prior bad acts in, but to theorize that attorneys can just bring in any old fact, completely unrelated to the case at hand, into the case to prove their point...well, that's the stuff of TV courtrooms. And it makes for good drama, but like so many other things on TV - it just doesn't happen in the real world.


I was gonna say...
When I was being sued, I was very dissappointed that we couldn't bring up unrelated stuff to color the plaintiff an asshole. :lmao: But it is a two way street, and a lot of things he was bringing to the table, were rejected as not being pertinant to the case. The process was horrible, and took way to long.


----------



## GooniesNeverSayDie11 (Feb 14, 2011)

~Stella~ said:


> GooniesNeverSayDie11 said:
> 
> 
> > ~Stella~ said:
> ...


 
Point taken but as long as a lawyer can illustrate any pattern (lying, cheating, stealing ) thats on record, they can cast doubt on a person. It doesn't have to be a crime they were previously convicted of. If someone lies during sworn testomony, it can cast doubt on everything else that they testify. However, this has been blown way out of proportion and I do not think you understood what I was saying in my original comment. You made the claim that nothing in the OPs comments indicate tax fraud. My point was that there are ways to logically guess at something. I did not mean taking this person to court. I am saying that behavior can dictate probability. I was comparing how one can arrive at that assumption in a similar way that a lawyer thinks or works. If this person has a apparent pattern of underhanded tactics I would also assume that those under handed tactics apply to other aspects of their business. Whether that would end up being right or not, would be a gamble to a degree.


----------



## ~Stella~ (Feb 14, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> ~Stella~ said:
> 
> 
> > My point is that there _are _some very specific reasons to bring prior bad acts in, but to theorize that attorneys can just bring in any old fact, completely unrelated to the case at hand, into the case to prove their point...well, that's the stuff of TV courtrooms. And it makes for good drama, but like so many other things on TV - it just doesn't happen in the real world.
> ...



100% true, in almost any case.  

I will say this - when you are dealing with custody cases (I do not and will not - they are ugly and unpleasant), there is a lot more that is _legitimately _pertinent to the case than almost any other type of legal proceeding.  After all - that DWI from 5 years ago might actually be important in determining what is in the best interests of a child if it relates to a string of similarly irresponsible behavior.  I suppose a layperson spending time in family court might get the impression that the same might apply to other cases, but they'd be wrong.

Can we veer any further off the beaten path?


----------



## ~Stella~ (Feb 14, 2011)

GooniesNeverSayDie11 said:


> ~Stella~ said:
> 
> 
> > GooniesNeverSayDie11 said:
> ...



If someone lies during sworn testimony it is like an Easter egg full of chocolaty goodness for the opposing counsel.  I drool at the thought of it.  And of course it will cast doubt on them - they just committed perjury, for god's sake!   

The rest - I can see what you are saying in a theoretical sense, but as a practical matter, things don't happen quite like you seem to think.


----------



## GooniesNeverSayDie11 (Feb 14, 2011)

~Stella~ said:


> GooniesNeverSayDie11 said:
> 
> 
> > ~Stella~ said:
> ...


I think you are confused at what I think. You failed to even grasp my initial comparison, and turned it into a big law debate. Furthermore, you jumped on the perjury example as if thats the only example under the sun. It also does not have to be a sworn testimony. It could be during interviews with law enforcementc different stories given than what is given during testimony. All of this casts doubt, all of this would be admissable in court. ( unless there was some special circumstance for instance where something was coerced ) Anyway, I am done with this debate, its run on way too long.


----------



## ~Stella~ (Feb 14, 2011)

GooniesNeverSayDie11 said:


> ~Stella~ said:
> 
> 
> > GooniesNeverSayDie11 said:
> ...



OK.  And yes, lying to law enforcement _in the current case_ during the course of a criminal investigation, may be admissible in court.  And it probably should be.  Still, that's apples and oranges to the original situation which still doesn't make any sense.  That is, narking on someone to the IRS for potential tax evasion when the only evidence you have is that they are a jerk.


----------



## Rekd (Feb 14, 2011)

I'm gonna go ahead and call shenanigans on this thread. :er:

Sabrina has (again) laid out some pretty tasty bait and (again) reeled in just about everyone on TPF. 

GG Girl! :lmao:


----------



## Bitter Jeweler (Feb 14, 2011)

Wait! Is Sabrina an Alt of KP007?


I should probably flag her as troll on my ignore list.


----------



## Rekd (Feb 14, 2011)

The jig is up! (And gone...)


----------



## bigtwinky (Feb 14, 2011)

Frakin frak.... I need to spend more time here to figure out who the trollers are.

Ah well, at least the thread came out with some good advice and a decent debate


----------



## MohaimenK (Feb 14, 2011)

hey guys! how's it going? haven't been in here for the past few days. what I miss?? :scratch:


----------



## bigtwinky (Feb 14, 2011)

shamrocks and shenanigans


----------



## KmH (Feb 14, 2011)

ababysean said:


> What I am confused, is it $400 after expenses of before?


For expenses to reduce your income they have to be deductable expenses.

Here is where it gets tricky: If you don't make a profit in at least 3 of the first 5 years you are in business, the IRS will reclassify your business as a hobby, disallow any business deductions you took in that 5 year period, and require you pay back tax on the recalculated income.

Business or Hobby? Answer Has Implications for Deductions



> The IRS presumes that an activity is carried on for profit if it makes a profit during at least three of the last five tax years, including the current year...


 


> If an activity is not for profit, losses from that activity may not be used to offset other income.


 
Something else not yet mentioned is being sure you get a resell tax-exempt certificate so you are not unneccessarily paying in-state sales tax. Your state will likely also expect you to pay Use Tax on whatever you buy by catalog, telephone, online, etc from  outside the state.

Nothing hurts a business worse than unexpected tax bills for several hundreds or thousands of dollars.


----------



## SabrinaO (Feb 15, 2011)

bigtwinky said:


> I'm confused, some things you say kind of contradict each other. You say up top you are doing free shoots, but then near the end, you ask if you should lower your prices? Do you mean you will pay people to shoot them?
> 
> There are always varying levels of photographers to chose from. You have the bottom feeders, those who offer crap images for cheap, you have the middle of the road people, and you have the high end full time working pros. Prices vary at each level. If you truly want to make a name for yourself, the first thing to do is get yourself out of the bottom feeder level. Let your work speak for itself. It will be harder to build a client base, but if you build a base with good solid images, and not just dirt cheap prices, you are building a longer lasting client relationship. Again, it will take more time. Quick money is doing dirt cheap crap.
> 
> ...


----------



## Croissant Seven (Feb 15, 2011)

Cut the brake lines on her car.

Take pictures of the accident, and post them on her FB wall, claiming that she was totally wasted and got arrested for DUI.

Hey, you know...


----------



## GooniesNeverSayDie11 (Feb 15, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> Wait! Is Sabrina an Alt of KP007?
> 
> 
> I should probably flag her as troll on my ignore list.


 how do you know? If thats the case, now I dont feel bad for hijacking the thread with Stella to debate nonsense.


----------



## Blitz55 (Feb 15, 2011)

You need to go to war with this *****. 
You need to out market her.
Look, be as pissed as you want but in this economy right now cheep wins out and most people are not artistic enough to tell a good photo from a not so good one as they are just use to snapping shots with their I-Phone.

You need to show people why you're photo's are worth it. Why someone would want to pay a bit more. 

I know you don't want to hear it because she is really really lame for doing this but she really sounds like she is putting in a lot of effort to get every customer she can, even if it seems underhanded. At the end of the day, who has the customers and who doesn't? That's what matters. I mean she has already chased one person off.

Take some photos that look almost exactly like some of the ones she has, then take some really nice photos of the same pose or something and educate your clients or potential clients by putting together a piece that shows what makes those photos bad and yours good.

Attack her where she is vulnerable, which is her lack of photographic artistic skill. 

Go To The Mattresses. (If you have watched *Godfather* or at the very least Y*ou've Got Mail* you will understand)

Good Luck!
Take her down!


----------



## timlair (Feb 15, 2011)

ababysean said:


> I shot a boudior seminar a few months ago, it was a paid thing, and taught posing and how to use the lights....
> I posted a few pictures on facebook and I had a local boudior/pinup photographer send me nasty mean messages about how she is the ONLY photog in my area allowed to do Pin Up because she did it first!
> Ummmmm what?  Pin up photography was done before we were born!
> 
> ...



This made me laugh hysterically. I want to know someone like this, so I can punch them in the face.


----------



## Tight Knot (Feb 15, 2011)

GooniesNeverSayDie11 said:


> If she doesn't actually have a legit registered business, but is charging money on a regular basis, call the IRS and anonymously report tax fraud on her. Uncle Sam hatesssss when they don't get their cut and i would bet she doesnt record this income on her tax returns if its not her main job.
> 
> At best, she gets a fine. At worst, she gets an audit.



My humble recommendation is for you to do what you can to safe-guard yourself, but leave her alone. Just remember the "three-fold rule", whatever energy a person puts out in the world will come back to them three-fold, whether good or bad. She sounds like she's got a lot of bad coming to her. Make sure your energies are "good" energies. 
There's an old Confucius saying "Never argue with an idiot, because the people watching, won't know who the idiot is".


----------



## Trever1t (Feb 15, 2011)

Tight Knot said:


> There's an old Confucius saying "Never argue with an idiot, because the people watching, won't know who the idiot is".


 


Thank you..... [calming down] this made my day


----------



## Tight Knot (Feb 16, 2011)

Trever1t said:


> Tight Knot said:
> 
> 
> > There's an old Confucius saying "Never argue with an idiot, because the people watching, won't know who the idiot is".
> ...


:thumbup:


----------



## o hey tyler (Feb 16, 2011)

ghache said:


> I have one friend i went to school with (a really good friend) wont talk to me anymore and talk **** behind my back to our common friends saying that *i am not good because i didnt went to school* to be a photographer LOL.



Are you not good because you didn't went to school for English? 

Oops, was that my sense of humor?


----------



## SabrinaO (Feb 16, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> Wait! Is Sabrina an Alt of KP007?
> 
> 
> I should probably flag her as troll on my ignore list.



Wait... why am I a troll??? 
Not cool....


----------



## SabrinaO (Feb 16, 2011)

Tight Knot said:


> GooniesNeverSayDie11 said:
> 
> 
> > If she doesn't actually have a legit registered business, but is charging money on a regular basis, call the IRS and anonymously report tax fraud on her. Uncle Sam hatesssss when they don't get their cut and i would bet she doesnt record this income on her tax returns if its not her main job.
> ...




Love this!


----------



## SabrinaO (Feb 16, 2011)

Rekd said:


> I'm gonna go ahead and call shenanigans on this thread. :er:
> 
> Sabrina has (again) laid out some pretty tasty bait and (again) reeled in just about everyone on TPF.
> 
> GG Girl! :lmao:




WOAH... what are you talking about?  Im not trying to pull any "shenanigans" here... what would be the point? 

Before I knew if I posted my "toilet paper as a diffuser at a wedding" I would get quick and helpful responses that I needed. (and maybe a laugh)

But this... im not fabricating drama here because why would that be beneficial to me??. This girl seems really out for blood. Another photographer told me she had to move her studio because she was taking all her business and talking trash. Seriously i just don't see how parents can see her pictures and pay even a penny for it.


----------



## Dao (Feb 16, 2011)

Again,   photography and business are 2 totally different things.

In business, if you are not able to compete with other(s), blaming other(s) is not the best approach.   What the other party tried to do was gaining market share by killing her competitions.  I do not know if she will success or not, but she is working on it.

And there is not Right or Wrong.  Only Win or Lose.


----------



## Rekd (Feb 16, 2011)

SabrinaO said:


> Rekd said:
> 
> 
> > I'm gonna go ahead and call shenanigans on this thread. :er:
> ...



Blah blah blah... 

You're a good phisher of man. Now it's time to /thread.


----------



## adversus (Feb 16, 2011)

I stopped reading after page 2, but to the OP:

Welcome to the world of business.


----------

