# Thinking about upgrading to 6D from the 60D



## incxalx (Jan 9, 2014)

Hello everybody,


As the title states, i plan on upgrading to the 6D. I shoot a little bit of everything: birds, city skylines(day and night), sports(very very little) and vactions. i and no professional by any means.
My main problem with the 60D is the image quality. my pictures are very fuzzy, a bit noisy, and overall dull. i shoot on manual and in RAW. I'm wondering if the 6D has better IQ because its "full-frame"?
The lenses i own are: Canon 10-22mm, 50mm f1.4, 24-70L f2.8 ii and 70-200L f2.8 IS ii

Anything will help, 


Thanks you.


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## goodguy (Jan 9, 2014)

While the 60D is a pretty old camera I don't think it should produce fuzzy pictures.
From the look of it you have very good lenses so either there is a problem with your camera or your technic.
If you are shooting with shutter speed too slow then you will get camera shake.
I learned everybody is different and their shutter speed should be different.

If you buy the 6D then mostly you will get a beast of a camera in low light but I am not sure if you will get a better IQ.

I would upgrade to the 6D but that's because I really want to move to full frame but I am not sure if this is the right move for you.
Be sure first the 60D is ok and you technic is not the cause of these fuzzy pictures


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## tecboy (Jan 9, 2014)

Can you show us a few sampled pictures?


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## Light Guru (Jan 9, 2014)

incxalx said:


> Hello everybody,
> 
> 
> As the title states, i plan on upgrading to the 6D. I shoot a little bit of everything: birds, city skylines(day and night), sports(very very little) and vactions. i and no professional by any means.
> ...



Well first you need to figure out exactly why your current images are fuzzy, noisy and dull, without knowing nobody can say weather or not a new camera will help you or not. 

Fuzzy images could be from camera shake, a new camera could not fix that shooting at a faster shutter speed would. 

If the noise you are seeing if from poor ISO performance then a new camera may help if it's from something else a new camera nay not help. 

You say your images come out dull, but you also say you are shooting raw. That's actually normal. Raw files always need some post processing to make them pop. A new camera would not help there.


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## Steve5D (Jan 10, 2014)

If the photos from the 60D are fuzzy and dull, the photos from a 6D will probably be fuzzy and dull.

I really don't think those problems are due to the camera...


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## goodguy (Jan 10, 2014)

Steve5D said:


> If the photos from the 60D are fuzzy and dull, the photos from a 6D will probably be fuzzy and dull.
> 
> I really don't think those problems are due to the camera...


I agree with you but in general this issue it could be a problem with the camera.
I had a Nikon D7000 with issues that gave me soft pictures.
No setting change made any different and even Nikon cervise helped, I upgraded to the D7100 and all problems are gone.
In the occasions that I do get soft pics is because of me and not the camera but most of the time the pictures are sharp.


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## Dao (Jan 10, 2014)

If the issue is fuzzy and dull, there is a high chance it is not camera related issue especially dull photos.  Post some examples here and see.


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## incxalx (Jan 10, 2014)

maybe my expectations are too high? what do you guys think about this photo? i will post another picture of downtown LA at night soon.


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## JustJazzie (Jan 10, 2014)

I'll let everyone else help you figure of what's wrong with your camera, but I've been researching the 6d so I thought I would throw my 2c in. Keep in mind I'm hardly a camera expert. 

For what you are shooting (sports and wildlife) I think the focusing system *might* be a problem. Apparently the focus points are not cross points and don't do so well with moving subjects. Everything I have read says it is not the right camera for sports. That might be something to consider when you research further.


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## incxalx (Jan 10, 2014)

Dao said:


> If the issue is fuzzy and dull, there is a high chance it is not camera related issue especially dull photos.  Post some examples here and see.


Picture was added! 

Thanks


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## JacaRanda (Jan 10, 2014)

Would you mind posting your settings used on this photo?

Oh, and I really like that viewpoint of Downtown LA with Dodger Stadium.


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## incxalx (Jan 10, 2014)

JacaRanda said:


> Would you mind posting your settings used on this photo?
> 
> Oh, and I really like that viewpoint of Downtown LA with Dodger Stadium.



Lens used was 24-70mm f2.8 ii at 24mm f/11 iso 400


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## ChrisHeathcote (Jan 10, 2014)

I have been using a 60d for 2 years now and even though I've just upgraded to FF I won't be parting with my 60d. I get great BIF shots.  One question how have you processed this, it's just it looks like an unprocessed RAW on mine


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## Light Guru (Jan 10, 2014)

incxalx said:


> JacaRanda said:
> 
> 
> > Would you mind posting your settings used on this photo?
> ...



And your shutter speed was?


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## incxalx (Jan 10, 2014)

Light Guru said:


> incxalx said:
> 
> 
> > JacaRanda said:
> ...




1/160! sorry


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## tecboy (Jan 10, 2014)

Could be the DOF you were concerning.  The trees are in focus, but the stadium and buildings are slightly out of focus.


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## robbins.photo (Jan 10, 2014)

Looks like a DOF issue alright.  The trees are very close to the camera, the buildings are very far away - normally F11 isn't going to give you quite enough DOF for a shot like this, I'd recommend you try going for something between F/16 and F/22.  The smaller the aperture of course the more depth of field which will bring objects that are far away from the focal point (in this case the trees) into sharper focus.  Oh, and the larger the number the smaller the aperture, aperture values are actually fractions which is why it seems backwards.


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## Light Guru (Jan 10, 2014)

incxalx said:


> Light Guru said:
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> 
> > incxalx said:
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Were you using a tripod or holding the camera by hand?


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## incxalx (Jan 10, 2014)

Light Guru said:


> incxalx said:
> 
> 
> > Light Guru said:
> ...



Hand held!

Thanks for all the tips and advice guys!! How can i fix my DOF problem?? How would my DOF play in at night with long exposures?


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## Dao (Jan 10, 2014)

The DoF is quite deep for 60D with 24mm focal length and f/11 if you focus at the Hyperfocal distance is around 9ft from the camera. 

Do you have other photos taken at the same spot?  Are they looks about the same?   Are those haze from around the building area and beyond?


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## incxalx (Jan 11, 2014)

Dao said:


> The DoF is quite deep for 60D with 24mm focal length and f/11 if you focus at the Hyperfocal distance is around 9ft from the camera.
> 
> Do you have other photos taken at the same spot?  Are they looks about the same?   Are those haze from around the building area and beyond?




Yeah, i do!! its been kinda hazy here in Los Angeles the pass couple days. Maybe thats other factor to poor IQ? How can i get the best DOF? sorry for my lack or knowledge.


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## play18now (Jan 11, 2014)

I would guess it's not so much of a camera problem as a combination of not quite a small enough aperture, and the fact that it is just sort of hazy in LA.  I have the same problem at certain times of day in particular, i.e. sunset, where the light has to pass through more of the haze (I live in Westchester).  However the 6D is a fabulous camera, it's one downfall IMO being the AF system which could be a little better.  However, I've have shot plenty of wildlife and sports with my 5DMkI and been just fine, provided you don't ask the AF system to do things it can't.  Unless you're shooting indoor sports or wildlife at night I would guess you'd be fine with the AF.


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## Dao (Jan 11, 2014)

incxalx said:


> Yeah, i do!! its been kinda hazy here in Los Angeles the pass couple days. Maybe thats other factor to poor IQ? How can i get the best DOF? sorry for my lack or knowledge.



Learn more about DoF.  Take a look at this site.

Online Depth of Field Calculator

Play around with the DoF calculator.   Select your camera, choose the focal length, enter the f-number and the subject distance.  It will show you the Hyperfocal distance whcih is what you need to put the focus on.   You maybe amazed how DEEP the DoF is.    Few feet from your camera to Infinity. 

To increase the sharpest of the photo during shooting for scene like that, using a tripod, remote shutter and mirror lockup do help in certain degree. (May not be too much, but do help a little depends on situation)


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## Gavjenks (Jan 11, 2014)

The 6D *will *make your photos less noisy.  It is also vastl more of a pleasure to use with customizability and options and ergonomics (1/2 the reason to get a FF IMO)
It will *not *make them less dull or less fuzzy. Unless your 60D was broken, these are due to your lenses or something you are doing, both of which would carry over to the 6D.

So it's not a very obvious solution to your stated issues.  But of course super nice if you can afford it even if it might have nothing to do with this stuff =P


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## kathyt (Jan 11, 2014)

JustJazzie said:


> I'll let everyone else help you figure of what's wrong with your camera, but I've been researching the 6d so I thought I would throw my 2c in. Keep in mind I'm hardly a camera expert.
> 
> For what you are shooting (sports and wildlife) I think the focusing system *might* be a problem. Apparently the focus points are not cross points and don't do so well with moving subjects. Everything I have read says it is not the right camera for sports. That might be something to consider when you research further.


The Canon 6D has an amazing focusing system. If you can't get sharp images with the 6D you need further education and practice. Period. I am sick of hearing people say it is the cameras fault. It is not! User error every single time! (Well unless something is seriously wrong with your camera) Just LEARN how to use the equipment that you have! Read the manual and take advantage of EVERYTHING the camera has to offer. Learn it inside out. I read an article today that stated most people are using only about half of what their camera is capable of!  Can you imagine if we were talking about sex here? Give it all you've got people!!!!


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## DaninMD (Jan 24, 2014)

Dao said:


> incxalx said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, i do!! its been kinda hazy here in Los Angeles the pass couple days. Maybe thats other factor to poor IQ? How can i get the best DOF? sorry for my lack or knowledge.
> ...



just from the one picture provided, I agree that shot has a DoF issue and didn't focus at the hyperfocal distance.   Changing to the 6D (or any FF for that matter) would give some relief based on increased DoF; however the OP really needs to put a DoF calculator on their phone.  its a life saver.  I prefer "hyperfocal"  but there are plenty that work.  to clean up the shot, the OP could have stopped down more and got more DoF


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## DaninMD (Jan 24, 2014)

kathythorson said:


> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> > I'll let everyone else help you figure of what's wrong with your camera, but I've been researching the 6d so I thought I would throw my 2c in. Keep in mind I'm hardly a camera expert.
> ...



I agree, haven't had any issues with my 6D and focusing.  but never had issues with my 50D either.  that said I typically focus with the center (cross type) AF, lock exposure and then frame as needed.


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## TCampbell (Jan 25, 2014)

Next time you are out to shoot a landscape or cityscape, have a look ... and I mean a really careful look ... at how much "color" there is in the scene.  As a generalization, landscape photos tend to be saturated.  That's ok... some color films were designed to produce heavily saturated color.

If you shoot RAW, the camera records what it sees and doesn't perform any in-camera changes to the data that would result in a loss of original data.  That means it's not going to saturate the images and anything you want to do to the image will have to be done on your computer.  If you shoot JPEG you can turn on a "Color Style" choice and there are some choices designed to provide more saturated colors.

Another issue of landscapes and cityscapes is that particles in the air will dull the look.  Every particle of dust, every microscopic droplet of water in the air will have this effect (in astronomy we call this "transparency" -- a measure of how clear the air is.)  You can't get rid of the particles in the air, but you can cut the reflections created by it.  If you use a circular polarizer and tune it by rotating the front, you'll notice that it has the effect of greening up the foliage, intensifying the color of blue in the sky, it helps define clouds better and makes them "pop".  These are true colors -- not saturation.  If you have a waxy leaf with a reflection on it, the reflection will make the leaf appear less green because you see the color of the reflection instead of the color of the leaf.  If you eliminate the reflection then you see the color of the leaf again -- hence the foliage looks like it's been greened up... because it HAS been greened up.

Photographers like to shoot outside during the "golden hours" -- this is the first hour after sunrise and the last hour before sunset.  This is because the light is better... for two reasons... it's a bit less intense, but also because it's "golden" (hence the name).   Colors are all "warmed" by the golden color of the light at this time.

I find that if you just slightly nudge the white balance to the warm side it helps give you a touch of that "golden hour" light (don't over-do it -- I warm mine by only about 2%).

You could take an image, just gently warm the white balance (do this before doing anything with color or saturation because you'll find that warming the white balance immediately gives the effect of some saturation anyway.)  Then toy with saturation (treat it like salt... a little improves flavor... too much ruins the food.)  You can also touch up sharpening a little.  Too much sharpening and you'll get a strange halo around over-sharpening objects -- there is a limit to what sharpening can do.

How "sharp" an image appears is really more about the lens, focus, and aperture.  

Switching to a 6D will certainly improve ISO performance (quite noticeably) but won't do much for "color" for the reasons I mentioned above.


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## mathewirving (Feb 24, 2014)

I personally think you should consider no more!  The full frame chip is what is all about!  Better colors, more brightness and bigger viewfinder will all be very very good reasons to justify the upgrade.  Here are some shots I have taken with my 6d!



Mathew Irving
Irving Photography Denver » Denver Wedding PhotographyHome » Irving Photography Denver
6d | 24-70 II L | 70-200 L | 135 F2 L | 85 1.2 L | 100 2.8 | 35 1.4 (Sigma/Art)


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