# What Pictures Does the Model Get?



## DGMPhotography (Nov 25, 2013)

Hello!

So normally when I have shoots I choose my favorite pictures, post them on my Facebook page, model is happy and we're good to go. But getting into clients, and more professional models, how do we decide who gets what pictures? I know the first comment is going to be to write a contract. Yes, I agree, but what to put on that contract?

Does the photographer choose all the photos and the model have to live with it? Something else?

I'm asking because out of my latest shoot, I posted a few photos, gave the model a CD with them, and then she later asks me where the rest of them are... I chose the _best_ photos, but she wanted to see what I would consider the less-than-acceptable ones as well. What do you think of this? What if she wants those? She's going to want to put them on Facebook, but if it's a shot I'm not particularly proud of, I don't want that promoting me, but I also don't want to be excluded from credits I should be getting. 

Again, it's not a huge deal (yet), but as this is a situation that has presented itself to me, I'd like to hear TPF's thoughts on this. 

Thanks!


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## manaheim (Nov 25, 2013)

I'm not a pro so take my feedback with a salt lick...

I only give them the best ones. You're the photographer, so you should know better than they which are the good ones.

One trick I've used to shortcut this is never tell them how many I've taken and do a renumber before I hand them off so they are all sequential.


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## manaheim (Nov 25, 2013)

I should say "I'm only a part-time pro"... otherwise I wouldn't have ANY basis for answering this question.


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## DGMPhotography (Nov 25, 2013)

manaheim said:


> I'm not a pro so take my feedback with a salt lick...
> 
> I only give them the best ones. You're the photographer, so you should know better than they which are the good ones.
> 
> One trick I've used to shortcut this is never tell them how many I've taken and do a renumber before I hand them off so they are all sequential.



Only problem with that is when they _KNOW_ you've taken way more than 10 photos, because, you know, they were there for the shoot xD But I definitely appreciate your sneakiness. I'm sure I could be more sneaky..


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## manaheim (Nov 25, 2013)

Your first comment was the dead-on one. Put it in the contract. I have that in my real estate stuff. It outright says I'll produce X images for use. I give them about 1 in 10. (I take a lot of extras- different perspectives, multiple exposures for HDRs, etc.)


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## vintagesnaps (Nov 25, 2013)

I suppose a model could be wondering about the photos if she realized you shot a lot but she didn't get very many (why are you shooting quite a bit and giving her 10 photos? maybe think about what would be a reasonably appropriate number). She might have a concern as a model where all those photos may end up if they're not flattering to her. Acting sneaky? I don't think that's exactly going to help and what's the point? it's not like someone can't tell if you're taking a lot of photos.

If you have something in writing that could clarify what will be provided. ASMP is one organization that has sample forms (releases, contracts, etc.). I'd think too about where you're putting clients' photos and read the Terms & Conditions on any site where you post so you know what you're agreeing to regarding usage etc.


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## DGMPhotography (Nov 25, 2013)

What about in TFP situations?


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## robbins.photo (Nov 25, 2013)

DGMPhotography said:


> Hello!
> 
> So normally when I have shoots I choose my favorite pictures, post them on my Facebook page, model is happy and we're good to go. But getting into clients, and more professional models, how do we decide who gets what pictures? I know the first comment is going to be to write a contract. Yes, I agree, but what to put on that contract?
> 
> ...



Ok, I'm insulted that you would think I would just automatically give you some knee-jerk response about getting a contract.  That really cheeses me off.  Honestly.

First you need to contact a lawyer, then have him/her write up a contract.

Lol - ok, in all seriousness - in a situation like this your best bet is to have a contract, and have the contract state that you will select which images the model receives.


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## DGMPhotography (Nov 25, 2013)

robbins.photo said:


> DGMPhotography said:
> 
> 
> > Hello!
> ...



Even in TFP? The logic she gave me was "Each of us is going to think different things look better." As a model, she has a brand as much as I do, right? She said even in paid shoots she's gotten to choose photos...


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## robbins.photo (Nov 25, 2013)

DGMPhotography said:


> robbins.photo said:
> 
> 
> > DGMPhotography said:
> ...



Well I'd probably go with a contract that stated you get to choose which pictures she receives,  you can always give the model the option to choose additional photos if she asks based on the situation and what you feel is best, but by writing a standard contract that way you've got a much better fall back position later.


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## tirediron (Nov 25, 2013)

What I do, and have had no problems with is this:  I tell the model that he/she will typically receive _*about*_ 4-6 images from a 90-120 minutes session.   When I process the session, I go through, bin all the dogs which generally leaves me about 50-60.  I do a quick WB check, and post them in a LR gallery and tell them to pick their 6 images which I process.  I will usually process several of my own choice, which I also give to the model, so I promise _*about*_ 6 and usually deliver 10 or so.


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## DGMPhotography (Nov 26, 2013)

tirediron said:


> What I do, and have had no problems with is this:  I tell the model that he/she will typically receive _*about*_ 4-6 images from a 90-120 minutes session.   When I process the session, I go through, bin all the dogs which generally leaves me about 50-60.  I do a quick WB check, and post them in a LR gallery and tell them to pick their 6 images which I process.  I will usually process several of my own choice, which I also give to the model, so I promise _*about*_ 6 and usually deliver 10 or so.



That's a pretty good idea. Narrow it down to good ones, let her pick her favorites, and then pick your favorites... Guess that just means I need to take more good pictures so I have a number from her to choose from!


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## Tee (Nov 26, 2013)

Disclaimer 1: I am not a working professional but I make every attempt to conduct myself as one. 

Disclaimer 2: Can we assume you're referring to basic model shoots and not agency supplied/ testing/ paid work (because that's a whole different process)?

I have it all spelled out in my usage agreement (separate from model release) which simplifies the process.  Most models who have been around the game are aware they're only getting a handful of images.  Most models know they only need 1 or 2 great images from that particular photo shoot for their portfolio. Where you run afoul is with new internet models who have become accustomed  to getting 100's of images from amateur photographers who think more is better, and frankly, most photographers and models in the internet world are doing this for fun or on the side.  There is also the option for cash as the compensation.  I.e., if you pay a model for her time then money is the compensation and she is not entitled to images.  When I do pay a model, I make sure that is clearly explained and it is also in my paperwork as well.  I do this entirely for my enjoyment so I'm going to tailor how I do things to meet my needs.  Sounds pretentious but I'm softened in the real world when explaining how the process works.   

The only times I get the "I want more images" is when I do complimentary sessions for friends and family (which actually happened to me 2 weeks ago).  For family lifestyle shoots, I deliver 20-25 finished images.  Most of the time we are only shooting for 1-2 hours.  20-25 images is more than generous considering I am doing this for free and between my 60+ hour work schedule.  

I learned the higher caliber model you photograph the less hassle there is.  They already know what to expect.


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## tirediron (Nov 26, 2013)

Tee said:


> ... I deliver 20-25 finished images. Most of the time we are only shooting for 1-2 hours. 20-25 images is more than generous considering I am doing this for free and between my 60+ hour work schedule.


 A LOT more than generous indeed!



Tee said:


> I learned the higher caliber model you photograph the less hassle there is. They already know what to expect.


Very true!

When I a TF* casting call on MM, or message a model I'd like to work with, I tell them right up front that they'll get about 6 images. If they want a shoot & burn session, they can go elsewhere. The only time I've ever had an issue was with a young, "my friends told me I should be a model, so..." kid of about 15 or so. Fortunately, I had the signed release/license agreement both he and his mother signed, and my butt was covered.


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## 12sndsgood (Nov 26, 2013)

I let them know up front they will get what I edit up. I usually talk with those I choose to work with ahead of time so they know what to expect. I don't give a number because every shoot varies. Generally I'll edit up under 20 per a 2 hour session which even I consider a lot.  But with model shoots it's practice so I usually am also practicing my processing skills as we'll.


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## Steve5D (Nov 27, 2013)

I've got a very simple rule which I follow, every time, without fail: 

"You don't get to see the bad ones".

Period.

When presenting photos to a client, whether that client is paying me or it's TFCD, I am the sole arbiter of what is good and what is bad. Period. That's my job. _You're_ job is to stand there and strike a pose and adopt a pensive expression for the camera.

Period.

I don't even bother renumbering them. I've been asked about photos not being sequential, and I've often explained it. When asked if I could show the ones I decided were less than presentable, I simply say no.

There is, of course, a very simple way to avoid this: Agree on the number of images you'll provide. I've done that every time I've shot TFCD, and have never had a problem; not once...


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## DGMPhotography (Nov 28, 2013)

Okay, I really appreciate the feedback here. So even though my model is kinda experienced it would appear that she does have some learning to do. Don't we all? I've let her know my thoughts on this and we agreed on a compromise. Thanks!


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