# Craigslist return dilemma, insight needed.



## s10lowrider1994 (Jul 17, 2011)

Hi everyone. About as far from photo convo as you can get but I assume a lot of folks buy and sell used stuff on here so I thought I'd pose a little issue I'm having and ask for some insight. I recently sold something on craigslist and the buyer is hassling me for a refund. Here's a bit of info on what went down. I had a lawn tractor that I no longer needed, moved and now have a lawn service, so I posted it for sale. Had a guy interested in a much lower price, we went back and forth for a few days on price and finally agreed at a price $450 under my asking price. Total steal but what am I gonna do with it? So i decided I may as well sell it. Anyway he comes by, checks it out, I demonstrate everything for him and take a few laps around the yard to give him an idea of how it handles and operates. He then takes the drivers seat and goes on about his way driving around the yard and getting used to the controls and testing out everything. We talk about it for a bit and I send a bunch of info on it his way so he knows what to expect when using it and so he understands how all of the controls work. The battery was low and needing charge but he said no big deal and decided to buy it. We load it on the truck, make the transaction and off he goes. I even let this guy borrow my ramps to unload it as he promised to being them right back. Well later I get an email that he got it home and unloaded it and he says it wont run correctly. I explain to him that the battery needs to be completely charged otherwise it will go nuts under a load (like cutting grass). He says he doesnt want it and I lied to him and he wants his money back. I find this funny as a whole bunch of folks witnessed him use it, happily agree to the predetermined  price and leave very happy with the tractor. I know this thing worked perfect when it left and he knows it to, he looked at every possible aspect multiple times. Anyway now he has my ramps hostage and wont bring them back, guess he's mad about me not giving him a refund. Its craigslist so everything is bought as is anyway but I hate playing games and being bothered. The guy got my tractor for a steal, took my ramps and now wants me to buy back a broken tractor that ran perfect when it left my house. He now wants to hold onto it until Thursday until his friend can look at it which makes me even more angry. I'm not buying anything back anyway, much less something someone has had for a week and wrenched on. I simply do not know what could have happened to it but I would imagine either his grouchy wife didnt like what he brought home (she gave him a pretty tight budget and he made it sound like she was being a pain), or he didnt know what he was doing and broke something. Its a dumb situation and I'm almost positive once you buy something like that, you own it. Dont want any legal drama though. What do I do?


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## 480sparky (Jul 17, 2011)

Unless you expressed a warranty, it was purchased as is.  As for him 'keeping' your ramps, that's theft.  Call the local constabulary and file a complaint.


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## joealcantar (Jul 17, 2011)

Hmm did you give him a reciept that said "As Is"?  normally that works.  If not believe you may be okay, specially if he ran the thing and used it for a bit. 
You can post your question on a legal site and see what they say: Consumer rights questions? Ask a lawyer and get answers ASAP
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Good luck with this , shoot well, Joe


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## s10lowrider1994 (Jul 17, 2011)

I didnt give him a receipt or anything and he paid in cash so the transaction doesnt exist on paper. That being said I have no intention of ever ripping anyone off, I'm an honest person and I would be pretty angry and hurt if someone pulled a fast one on me. Furthermore I surely wouldnt let him leave with my ramps if I knew something was going to go boom the second he got it home. Just sounds fishy to me, something works reliably up until the night I sell it and it magically falls apart the second it leaves my house? I get where he's coming from but I have no way of knowing what he did to it after it left my house. The controls are pretty complicated as its an older professional series tractor and it can easliy get damaged due to user error. I showed him how to use it over and over and even gave him the original manual. I tried to explain my point of view to the guy which is that"it worked when it left, you tested it thoroughly and happily bought it. Now after it left my house I have no idea if it got dropped unloading it, if he screwed up something by using the controls incorrectly or if he just changed his mind. Bottom line is I cant see how someone expects you buy back a broken item (if it is even broken) that was in perfect working order as seen by the buyer when it left the house. Obvioulsy he knew it worked, nobody would buy a broken lawn tractor for the amount we agreed upon. It makes me think he's dishonest anyway as he is holding my ramps hostage. I emailed him back the second he complained and have been more then happy to offer knowledge into the issue he claims to have, just cant offer a refund. He hasnt wrote back after I asked him to check a few things on it so I'm not sure if he figured it out and chalked it up to stupidity or is just waiting for his friend to look it over. Either way I cant do anything with a broken tractor, surely wont buy it back and pay to have it fixed when it wasnt broken before it left. Some people are insane, I'd just hate to end up in small claims court over something so stupid.


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## 480sparky (Jul 17, 2011)

Small claims?!?!? For what?  The value of the ramps?  No.... not what they _cost_ you.... the current open-market value.  That's all you can sue for.


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## photoguy1971 (Jul 17, 2011)

If he paid cash a receipt is not needed in your transaction. He is playing games with you or has buyers remorse. It could be his better half that is behind his sudden dissatisfaction. Your ramps are gone. Forget about it and do not play his games. He bought it and the only thing to discuss is your ramps. I would just move on. If you feel comfortable about what you sold him then just leave it alone. I had the same experience over a 10 year old Audi. I think the purchaser was trying to flip it and realized with the economy at the time blue book wasn't going to hold. I never returned the call and do not feel bad about the transaction.


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## s10lowrider1994 (Jul 17, 2011)

Oh I dont mean me sueing him, I think he's an idiot for stealing my ramps but thats about as far as that goes. I mean can he sue me?


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## 480sparky (Jul 17, 2011)

s10lowrider1994 said:


> .........I mean can he sue me?



He sure can.  Whether or not he receives a judgement in his favor is another matter.


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## s10lowrider1994 (Jul 17, 2011)

photoguy1971 said:


> If he paid cash a receipt is not needed in your transaction. He is playing games with you or has buyers remorse. It could be his better half that is behind his sudden dissatisfaction. Your ramps are gone. Forget about it and do not play his games. He bought it and the only thing to discuss is your ramps. I would just move on. If you feel comfortable about what you sold him then just leave it alone. I had the same experience over a 10 year old Audi. I think the purchaser was trying to flip it and realized with the economy at the time blue book wasn't going to hold. I never returned the call and do not feel bad about the transaction.



I'm 100% confident in what I sold him, if anything he ripped me off with the price he got it for. He got a $450 discount and pulled some sticky finger crap on my ramps. Guess that's what I get for being nice to someone. I would just hate to end up in court, even though I'm pretty sure it would be a laughing matter, it would still suck.


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## s10lowrider1994 (Jul 17, 2011)

I've never dealt with anything like this before, I buy things on CL all the time. If I am unhappy with my purchase, it's my own fault for buying it and I either junk it if its broken or resell if it doesnt meet my expectations. As far as this thing goes, it worked when he bought it, so I'm not sure what his deal is. I'm sure this episode is going to be a royal pain.


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## 480sparky (Jul 17, 2011)

Just call the cops and file a complaint.  MAYBE you'll get your ramps back. If not, take your lumps and move on.


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## photoguy1971 (Jul 17, 2011)

He has no grounds to sue you with out a receipt. That is the best thing you did was not providing a receipt. You are covered. At-least in Texas you would be covered. You may want to research the laws in your state.


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## EPPhoto (Jul 18, 2011)

This all sounds pretty simple to me.  He bought it....so it's now his, and if it's broke (apparently)...it's also his problem, not yours.  End of that story.   

As for the ramps, he borrowed them under the understanding they were to be returned immediately after use, and didn't.  He has now committed the crime of theft...which is grounds for you to call the police!  End if that story also.

Forget suing him over some ramps.  You'll end up with a brick through your window for that petty move.  Just call the cops and get your ramps back.

So as long as what you've told us is true, this would be a no-brainer for the police.


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## s10lowrider1994 (Jul 18, 2011)

photoguy1971 said:


> He has no grounds to sue you with out a receipt. That is the best thing you did was not providing a receipt. You are covered. At-least in Texas you would be covered. You may want to research the laws in your state.



I never give receipts unless the buyer wants a typical bill of sale just to prove they purchased it to keep for their own records. I'm not a bad person and the situation really sucks, I just cant bring myself to refund his money as the item is useless to me if it is now broken or not working properly. Hopefully he can chill out and see things from the other side of the fence, we have no way of knowing what happened after it left, even if he did break it I highly doubt he would admit it.

I was never considering anything court related about the ramps, just thought it was funny the guy accusing me of being dishonest robbed me, especially after all of the help I offered and the deal I gave him. Is it worth reporting him for theft? Or will this cause more of a headache than its worth?


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## molested_cow (Jul 18, 2011)

Do you know where he lives? Without that information, it will be a hassle to track him down even if you go to the cops.

If you have his number and that the police takes this case seriously, they may be able to get the address assigned to the number, but they may need some sort of court order or warrant before the phone company will release the information. That means the police needs to have a strong case to begin with. If you have the email trails, that will be very useful too.

If I were you, I will just take the mower back(if it's not broken) and sell it to someone else for the right price.


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## clarinetJWD (Jul 18, 2011)

molested_cow said:


> If I were you, I will just take the mower back(if it's not broken) and sell it to someone else for the right price.


That's the whole problem.  He sold it to the guy, and the guy broke it.  Now he wants a refund.

I don't know how much those ramps cost, but I'd probably just let them go if it wasn't too, too much.  Think of it as a $450+ramps discount.  Then think of how much the mower is worth not that it is broken...

You're still on the better end of the deal IMO.  As for him suing you, well, I'm no lawyer, but it seems to me he doesn't have a leg to stand on.  I wouldn't worry about it.


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## s10lowrider1994 (Jul 18, 2011)

clarinetJWD said:


> molested_cow said:
> 
> 
> > If I were you, I will just take the mower back(if it's not broken) and sell it to someone else for the right price.
> ...



They were just a cheap set of ramps, about $50. It's not really the price, it's the point that some moron stole from me. Talked to him today and he has calmed down but still has my ramps and is under the impression his friend is going to look at it Thursday and make the decision for him if its worth keeping. As far a I'm concerned he owns it now, especially having tried to fix it himself, lord know what he could screw up in the process. His wife is giving him all kinds of crap so naturally that gets passed on to me like its my problem. I know his name but have no clue where he lives other than the town and the general area. As far as I'm concerned it's all his problem now, he could always resell it on CL but apparently that has not registered yet. It's still worth more than he paid for it even if it needs a little work, and now he has a set of ramps to assist the buyer


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## molested_cow (Jul 18, 2011)

Well, you got one thing, which is his number, and that is a pretty powerful chip if you decide to let the "appropriate" people have it.


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