# Ice hockey HELP



## supermanning

the season has begun!  And I have been taking portraits all summer.  Went to a game last night at a rink with possibly the worst lighting I have ever experienced.  And WOW, these guys are fast!!! Using a 7D (new) with 70-200 2.8 IS.  I was late, so didn't get a chance to WB the ice

so, my questions:  what do I loose if I increase my ISO 2000+
I usually shoot AV, how do increase my shutter speed?  Should I try shutter priority?  It's hard to go full manual when they are moving soooo fast

Any help appreciated!


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## Josh66

The lighting should be fairly consistent, so once you establish the proper settings, full manual should be the easiest.  All you have to do is focus and shoot.

What do you lose by raising the ISO?  Noise free pictures, lol!  I haven't used the 7D though, so I don't really know what the ISO limit is for acceptable noise levels...


If you're not comfortable going manual, Av will give you the fastest shutter speeds for the aperture you're using.


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## Buckster

If you're not going to crop them like mad, you can get aways with quite a lot of ISO latitude with the 7D, from what I'm finding on my own 7D rig.

I find that my shooting habits are changing from shooting mostly aperture priority or shutter priority to full manual most of the time, now that I have auto-ISO and can get away with it without much to worry about on the noise issue. It's very liberating to be able to choose both shutter and aperture however I like for creative expression and let the camera decide what ISO to use to pull it off, and not worry much at all about noise issues associated with it anymore.

If it were me, I'd put the ISO on auto-pilot, set the shutter at 1/250th (or faster if need be), the aperture at wide open for some sweet isolation and background bokeh, and start firing!

Oh, and I'd definitely take a few moments to get a WB first. It's well worth it, IMHO, and doesn't take but a few seconds if you're practiced at it. If you're not practiced at it, what are you waiting for? It only takes a couple of times going through the steps, and you'll have it down pat.


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## CNCO

how did the 70-200 work for hockey? did you have enough length to capture everything? i might start shooting hockey for a team and i am just trying to get my equipment ready.


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## Josh66

If you're shooting RAW, you can take your WB reference shot after the action is over, or during a lull...


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## supermanning

CNCO, I purchased the 70-200 because of hockey.  I couldn't imagine using anything else. (plus, now I use it for almost everything else) 
 Ice Hockey is very difficult when you add in the horrible lighting, white background, and fast motion.  Plus, you usually have to shoot thru marked up glass or netting.
I've been "getting away with it" for the past year or two, but I really want to step up and do some great action photography.  *so, I need some great advice!!!*
I'm going to a series of games next weekend, then home for awhile, where I should have a crows nest view of the games.
Buckster, In order to set a WB, I need to arrive before the players take the ice, so I can sneak in and get my settings.


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## CNCO

thats what i was wondering, how do shots look when you as a photographer have to shoot through the glass. does that dull the image? rinks should have platforms up high.


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## Buckster

supermanning said:


> CNCO, I purchased the 70-200 because of hockey. I couldn't imagine using anything else. (plus, now I use it for almost everything else)
> Ice Hockey is very difficult when you add in the horrible lighting, white background, and fast motion. Plus, you usually have to shoot thru marked up glass or netting.
> I've been "getting away with it" for the past year or two, but I really want to step up and do some great action photography. *so, I need some great advice!!!*
> I'm going to a series of games next weekend, then home for awhile, where I should have a crows nest view of the games.
> Buckster, In order to set a WB, I need to arrive before the players take the ice, so I can sneak in and get my settings.


Why?  The boards are white, the ice is white, lots of white all around most hockey rinks I've been to that will work to do the WB setup off of.  Just zoom in on one, shoot it, and set your white balance to it.  Done.  It's like 20 seconds.

And if you have an assistant (read friend or family member) with you that's willing to hold up a white balance tool like a gray card to do it, even better.  It still takes all of about 20 seconds.


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## supermanning

I guess I thought I had to use the ice for WB settings...  I'll try other options next time


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## CNCO

i would shoot raw or use the auto setting. me personally i have never used a grey card. im guessing all you do is shoot your lighting source with the grey card next to it and really try to differentiate white and grey?????


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## Buckster

1. Let the light source illuminate the gray card. Doesn't have to be next to it - just lit by it. Overhead lights in an ice rink light up everything in the rink with virtually the same color cast, so you could put it on the floor at your feet and shoot it even.

2. Shoot the gray card. Just zoom in on it, take the shot using just the rink lighting, and you're good to go. It doesn't even have to be in focus.

3. Set the WB to use that shot as the source. If you don't know how to do this, see your manual. It's a couple clicks at best on the menu. Once you know where they are and how to do it, it's a total breeze. It will then use that WB until you tell it to do something different.

4. Done. Shoot to your heart's content.

The gray card is more reliable than random white sources for best accuracy, because random white sources can have their own color cast which we can't readily detect with out naked eyes, but can affect overall WB to the camera's more sensitive WB detection system. A photographic gray card has no such color cast issues.


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## supermanning

Great!  I know how to set a custom WB, but, like i said, I thought I had to use the ice.  I'll pick up a card, and try that for the weekend.
Again, my question, if the lighting is poor, will I loose anything going for an ISO 3200?  Can I change my shutter speed in AV?, or trust the camera


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## supermanning

Still a noob here, but really appreciate the feedback!  I'll post some pics next week


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## Buckster

supermanning said:


> Great! I know how to set a custom WB, but, like i said, I thought I had to use the ice. I'll pick up a card, and try that for the weekend.
> Again, my question, if the lighting is poor, will I loose anything going for an ISO 3200? Can I change my shutter speed in AV?, or trust the camera


Why not just give it a try?  Put the camera on ISO 3200, shoot some photos, and see how they look.

I suspect however, with that f/2.8 lens, you won't need to go that far with the ISO though, and that's why I suggest putting it on auto ISO.  It's not like the rink is so dark nobody can see the game, right?


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## ajkramer87

[video=youtube;zdPXlpsZZ3A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdPXlpsZZ3A[/url][/video]

Jared Polin gives some good advice on hockey photos.


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## CNCO

Buckster said:


> 1. Let the light source illuminate the gray card. Doesn't have to be next to it - just lit by it. Overhead lights in an ice rink light up everything in the rink with virtually the same color cast, so you could put it on the floor at your feet and shoot it even.
> 
> 2. Shoot the gray card. Just zoom in on it, take the shot using just the rink lighting, and you're good to go. It doesn't even have to be in focus.
> 
> 3. Set the WB to use that shot as the source. If you don't know how to do this, see your manual. It's a couple clicks at best on the menu. Once you know where they are and how to do it, it's a total breeze. It will then use that WB until you tell it to do something different.
> 
> 4. Done. Shoot to your heart's content.
> 
> The gray card is more reliable than random white sources for best accuracy, because random white sources can have their own color cast which we can't readily detect with out naked eyes, but can affect overall WB to the camera's more sensitive WB detection system. A photographic gray card has no such color cast issues.





Can you explain step 3 more? Im lost. Are you trying to differentiate white and grey?


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## supermanning

Hey buckster, (in N.MI) My son is thinking about going to Finlandia U (FU)


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## Buckster

CNCO said:


> Buckster said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Let the light source illuminate the gray card. Doesn't have to be next to it - just lit by it. Overhead lights in an ice rink light up everything in the rink with virtually the same color cast, so you could put it on the floor at your feet and shoot it even.
> 
> 2. Shoot the gray card. Just zoom in on it, take the shot using just the rink lighting, and you're good to go. It doesn't even have to be in focus.
> 
> 3. Set the WB to use that shot as the source. If you don't know how to do this, see your manual. It's a couple clicks at best on the menu. Once you know where they are and how to do it, it's a total breeze. It will then use that WB until you tell it to do something different.
> 
> 4. Done. Shoot to your heart's content.
> 
> The gray card is more reliable than random white sources for best accuracy, because random white sources can have their own color cast which we can't readily detect with out naked eyes, but can affect overall WB to the camera's more sensitive WB detection system. A photographic gray card has no such color cast issues.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you explain step 3 more? Im lost. Are you trying to differentiate white and grey?
Click to expand...

Nope. Not trying to differentiate white and gray. Trying to get a correct color balance to the photos I'm about to shoot.

I'll try to explain...

All light has color, measured by temperature. When it's blueish, we say it's cool. When it's reddish, we say it's warm. Incandescent lights produce a yellowish light. Flourescent lights produce a greenish light. We call that color cast - the color that a particular light makes a photo look. You've probably seen that in plenty of photos - sometimes they look to yellow or too green or too blue or whatever.

Cameras are 'tuned' to a particular gray used in gray cards. It used to be 18% gray, but now I hear it's 14% gray or something - doesn't matter, as far as I know. When you point a camera at a gray card and tell it (with a few buttons pushed) "Camera - you're looking at a photographic gray card" then it knows what color that's supposed to be, and it can tune to it.

So, imagine you have it looking at a gray card, but you're shining a red light on the gray card. You tell the camera with a couple buttons on the menu, "this is a gray card - adjust". The camera will adjust it's color temperature so that the photo that comes out will still look like the proper gray card that it knows it's supposed to be. It won't be red.

So, no matter what subtle color is in the lights of the room you're in, the camera will make the adjustment based on what it sees with the gray card and the light hitting it, and you'll get a photo of a gray card, the way it's supposed to be - tuned.

After the camera is tuned like that, everything shot in that light will be the right color in the resulting photos. Skin is the right color of skin, per person, blues are the right shade of blue, and all the rest. The photos don't come out too yellow or too green or too blue or too red or too magenta, etc. They come out just right.

That's how the camera tunes in with the light it's shooting in - through the reflection of light on the gray card.

Now, if you want to know which buttons to push or what menu settings to access to do that, you'll have to check the manual for your particular camera. Just look up "setting custom white balance" and follow the steps. It's real easy.


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## Buckster

supermanning said:


> Hey buckster, (in N.MI) My son is thinking about going to Finlandia U (FU)


That's WAY up there! C-c-c-c-coooooold winters!!! My place is up far enough already, and it's below the Big Mac. Luckily for me, I spend most of my time on the road anyway, usually in much warmer climates.


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## Kenny32

When I shoot hockey, the first thing I do without even thinking about it is set myself to ISO 3200, and a shutter speed of 1/500th with my 80-200mm to see exactly where I'm at. I've only shot in one rink so far where I didn't have to use 3200, and I think I ended up using 2000 with a 1/640th shutter speed.

I usually don't bother messing around with white balance...Because I shoot raw a lot of that can be recovered, unless the ice rink has all the colors of the rainbow in the lights.

There are a few different types of shots you can get, but I'll give my two favorite, both of which involve sitting right at the red line. 

1. Get photos of people crashing the net...I've gotten quite a few AWESOME shots of people coming in on breakaways, some deflections, etc...
2. Individual photos...These are the type of photos that are usually shot around the blue line, and even the neutral zone.

Don't make hockey more complicated than it has to be...A lot of people (especially professionals) ask me...YOU SHOOT THROUGH THE GLASS? Honestly, you get very minimal loss from shooting behind the glass, and you simply can not help it. I really don't like asking coaches to sit in the bench, and there really isn't many other options.

Hope this helps.


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## IDLaxStar

Just shoot in full manual. Set your f stop to f/2.8 then put your iso as high as you have to to get your shutter speed to at least 1/500. If that isn't stopping the action increase you iso and then your shutter. The higher your iso the more noise. But you will have to forfeit noise for stopping the action. Just work with it to where you have the proper mix of no blur and low noise. But with your setup you should be able to get some awesome shots, other then the fact that you have to work around the glass and net.


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## supermanning

I'll post some shots after the weekend.  Thanks so much for the advice, I've done ok in the past, but I know I can do better.  I'm used to shooting thru glass, I look for a spot that's not too marked up (usually in the corners). At this level, I wouldn't ask to get onto the bench or penalty box, wayyyy too dangerous.


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