# Starting a darkroom... Advice??



## Alexandra (Jan 2, 2006)

Ok, first I need to confess. I never ever ever developed films and i've never been in a darkroom. That being said and now that you all know how lame I really am, i'm moving on to my important topic.

I just understood that I was seriously into photography. I love it more than any form of art i've tried so far, and I'm thinking of seriously comitting myselft to it. Therefore, of course, I need a darkroom.
_(ok, i think i'll "bold" the important parts for those who don't wanna read all my rambling.)_
*So, I'm looking for any useful advice.*
My parents will help me out with the basics, like processing and stuff. Actually they both studied polygraphy (is that the word for it?) and printing-related subjects in university and throughout their whole life they've been developping their rolls stacked in the bathroom with a red sock tied over the bulb... Considering that i'll have to work in similar conditions, their basic advice will do. They're both awesome for helping me out, here.
But, as there is always a but, they were not really doing "photographic" stuff, their thing was just frieds' and family snapshots, so there are things they might not know.
*I know this place if full of experimented and knowing people, so please, pity the darkroom newb and help me out! If you have any advice, infos and facts that would be useful for me to know, advice on any extra equipment or chemicals i might need for advanced things, organisation tips, whatever comes to your mind... Please, let me know!*
*All advice, tips and ideas (and I repeat: other than very basic stuff. I already know the very basic stuff.) are oh-so-welcome!!!!*


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## crystalview (Jan 5, 2006)

Alexandra,

Here is a site that will get you started at least.  I dont have any tips for you or anything because I will be going through the same process as you are. I just found my dads' old canon canonette QL-17 and can wait to get it fixed up. 

Here is the link: 
http://www.markushartel.com/tutorials/archives/2005/12/how_to_develop.html

Markus used to frequent this forum along with his wife some time ago.  He does good work in my opinion.

Other than that, I'm scouring the internet for ideas, facts and tutorials on this myself.  I'll let you know if I come across anything monumental if you want.

Good luck!
-Jared


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## Alexandra (Jan 5, 2006)

Thanks Jared!
I already knew most of the process, buti'm sure this is gonna help me! :thumbup:


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## terri (Jan 5, 2006)

Alexandra, once you really start putting things together, you'll probably have really specific questions. By all means, post them here, and we can probably help you figure everything out! 

The darkroom is a place of wonder. Congrats!


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## Alexandra (Jan 5, 2006)

thanks terri!


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## darin3200 (Jan 5, 2006)

Things I wish I would have known when I started.
1. You have to have reels to develop film, yogurt containers don't work
2. When touching chemicals, wearing gloves is preferable
3. Get music, it tend to boring without it
4. The colors filter that might come with an enlarger are for contrast
5. Storing chemicals in bottles helps them last longer than a day
6. Test stips save paper
7. Chemicals smell bad at first, then you get used to it, covering the trays when not in use is a good idea. 
8. Ventilation is probably a good idea
9. This should have been #1, but I'm too lazy to re-number. You need chemicals to develop prints
10. Film canisters are a pain to open, can openers are helpful

I think that's about it


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## PlasticSpanner (Jan 5, 2006)

Get a clock!  

Also check your room is completely light tight!  I found out last week that my room lets in a tiny crack of light shining upwards from near the bottom of the door!  I fogged 2 films before deducing it wasn't the camera and something was wrong with the room & then spent an hour looking for it!


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## darin3200 (Jan 5, 2006)

PlasticSpanner said:
			
		

> Get a clock!


:thumbup: I once went to the darkoom at 8:00pm just to make a few prints and I lost track of time and when I finally came out to get some air it was past mignight.


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## Alexandra (Jan 5, 2006)

darin3200 said:
			
		

> Things I wish I would have known when I started.
> 1. You have to have reels to develop film, yogurt containers don't work
> 2. When touching chemicals, wearing gloves is preferable
> 3. Get music, it tend to boring without it
> ...


Wow, you're unbelievable


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## Alexandra (Jan 5, 2006)

PlasticSpanner said:
			
		

> Get a clock!
> 
> Also check your room is completely light tight! I found out last week that my room lets in a tiny crack of light shining upwards from near the bottom of the door! I fogged 2 films before deducing it wasn't the camera and something was wrong with the room & then spent an hour looking for it!


that's apity for the 2 rolls...
thanks for the advice!


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## darin3200 (Jan 5, 2006)

Oh, two more things.
Don't forget the lights are on when you open a bag of paper  and don't hook up any other lights to the same power stip as the enlarger, because you might often forget that the bright overhead light is on and waste a lot of paper


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## darin3200 (Jan 5, 2006)

Alexandra said:
			
		

> Wow, you're unbelievable


This is mostly from experience, bad, bad expierences. Like the time I didn't relize I had a hang-nail until I went to pick out a print from the stop bath  :meh:


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## Alexandra (Jan 5, 2006)

:meh: indeed.
I'll probably be "working" in my bathroom, so...


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## omeletteman (Jan 6, 2006)

Good luck with the darkroom alexandra, I will admit that I am a complete darkroom newb too, but luckily my university i suppose to be re-opening theirs this semester  so I will finally get a chance to try it out. I can't wait.


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## alexecho (Jan 6, 2006)

I always work in the bathroom. Works for me.

Don't even try to make the room totally light tight, you'll never quite get there, unless your parents have special doors and windows fitted?
Prints can be made despite the light creeping in under the door and around the window (providing it's really minimal), but film would be ruined instantly.
You can get black out bags that mean you can sit in comfort in your front room to load the films onto the spirals - much preferable to standing in the complete darkness.

Start with a small boxes of paper - I find the different printing paper makes more difference to the finished result than the brand of film, and if you do something silly when you're just starting out, it won't ruin a big box of paper either.


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## terri (Jan 6, 2006)

As Darin has wisely pointed out, be prepared to accept that you WILL make mistakes, and don't get overly discouraged by them. Give yourself a break and appreciate that you're a beginner. 

Whn you finally pull that first perfect print, all the previous trauma evaporates, and you just want to do more!


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## PlasticSpanner (Jan 6, 2006)

Yes you will make mistakes!  :blushing: 

But the learning curve is very steep and rewarding! :thumbup:


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## Hertz van Rental (Jan 6, 2006)

If you are considering making a proper darkroom then paint the internal walls and ceiling matt black. Do the same the the edges of the door and the inside of the door frame. It cuts down an awful lot of light.
Draught excluders (the brush type) along the bottom of the door will stop light getting in that way.
If it just an ad hoc D/R then a thick curtain over the door works. Should be black - and must be a smooth tight weave fabric. 'Fluffy' ones harbour dust.
Dust is your enemy so store everything in cupboards leaving surfaces easy to wipe clean.
Don't have carpet on the floor - again it harbours dust.
If the floor of the room isn't concrete then check for 'bounce'. If the floor moves then the enlarger will vibrate and you will get lots of blurred prints.
Check for light leaks using film. Get a cheap roll of ISO400. In the darkroom with the lights out, hold the roll about where you will normally be working. Pull out about 12" of film. Make a mark where the film enters the can*. Count to 5. Pull out about 6" more. Mark it. Count to 5. Another 6" and so on until the film is all out the can. 
Load it onto a spiral straight away and process.
If you have any light leaks you will see fogging on the film. As you have marked steps on the film you can work out how long it took to fog and assess the light level. The first bit out of the can has been exposed the longest.
If you are printing then you do the same with a piece of paper to check the safelight. Put a sheet down and every 15 seconds put a coin on the sheet up to 5 mins. Number each one in Biro. Process it and fogging will reveal white circles where the coins have been. The numbers will tell you how bad it is.


*Find a simple way. Nicking with scissors or nails is OK but you can rip the film. I found the best way was to use a small hole punch. Although I have used a pin before now.
Don't use pen as it can wash off during processing.


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## Alexandra (Jan 6, 2006)

wow, guys, this is incredible! Thank you!

Hertz, thank you a whole lot!!!


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## TheCanonMan (Jan 7, 2006)

Digital took over so film stuff has droped veary hard in price I set up my darkroom 2 of more or less every thing for 50.00 totle just keep your eyes open for that killer SALE!


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## Hertz van Rental (Jan 7, 2006)

Alexandra said:
			
		

> Hertz, thank you a whole lot!!!


I've designed and built 4 pro darkrooms, and designed and supervised the building of 6 College darkrooms (one with 30 enlargers and two print processors) over the years.
I've also had to get working untold numbers of old darkrooms in everything from a broom cupboard on up.
I've had to solve problems you wouldn't believe so if _you_ have a problem with anything just ask and I'll give you several workable solutions.


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## markc (Jan 7, 2006)

Since you haven't been in a darkroom before, I'd suggest taking a class or seeing if there is a local community darkroom you could spend a little time in, just to make sure that it's something you really want to invest in. Developing film is no big deal, but an enlarger and such is a bit of money, and making a print is more involved.


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## Alexandra (Jan 7, 2006)

Hertz van Rental said:
			
		

> I've designed and built 4 pro darkrooms, and designed and supervised the building of 6 College darkrooms (one with 30 enlargers and two print processors) over the years.
> I've also had to get working untold numbers of old darkrooms in everything from a broom cupboard on up.
> I've had to solve problems you wouldn't believe so if _you_ have a problem with anything just ask and I'll give you several workable solutions.


:hail:
I sure will!
:mrgreen:


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## Wally (Jan 7, 2006)

Not to open up a hornets nest or anything, but have you looked into the option of just processing your film in daylight tanks, and then scanning the negatives? The price of decent film scanners has come WAY down over the last 12-18 months.

I am an old darkroom guy from way back, but find that I have more control when I scan and PS, than when I print using my darkroom and enlarger.


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## Hertz van Rental (Jan 8, 2006)

Wally said:
			
		

> Not to open up a hornets nest or anything, but have you looked into the option of just processing your film in daylight tanks, and then scanning the negatives? The price of decent film scanners has come WAY down over the last 12-18 months.
> 
> I am an old darkroom guy from way back, but find that I have more control when I scan and PS, than when I print using my darkroom and enlarger.


It wouldn't really be darkroom work then, would it? :er:


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## markc (Jan 8, 2006)

True, but I do think it would be good to get a good taste before building one. I'm not saying this will happen to her, but I had all sorts of plans for building a darkroom in my house. I did loads of research and was ready to start building, but then I spent some time at the one at the local community darkroom. I had used the one in high school, but this was different. It's years later and it wasn't a learning experience, it was "production". I found that being cooped up for a couple of hours in a dark room surrounded by chemicals was worse than a whole day sitting at a sunless cubie. I had fallen in love with the idea of it (I do love working with my hands), but the reality was something different. I'd just hate for her to make a big investment of time, money, and energy and then find that it wasn't what she had in mind.



> I love it more than any form of art i've tried so far, and I'm thinking of seriously comitting myselft to it. Therefore, of course, I need a darkroom.


We're just pointing out that that isn't necessarily the case.


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## terri (Jan 8, 2006)

Appreciate you guys playing devil's advocate, as it were, but this_ is_ the darkroom forum, is it not? 

Those who come here are looking for advice on specific darkroom-related subjects, and we're sticking with that. We have a graphics/tutorial section for all things photoshop-related, and no one would go in there explaining how to do these processes in a darkroom.  

Everyone has to feel their own way. What is one person's experience will not be another's, and we need to respect that. Please keep comments relevant to the forum's intent. Thanks!


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## markc (Jan 8, 2006)

Just to be clear, I'm not saying to go digital, I'm saying to _get some experience in a darkroom_.

I'll go away now.


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## terri (Jan 8, 2006)

markc said:
			
		

> Just to be clear, I'm not saying to go digital, I'm saying to _get some experience in a darkroom_.
> 
> I'll go away now.


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## Alexandra (Jan 8, 2006)

Thanks you guys... and don't fight over it, k? 

I'm not really doing this to pay less for printing, cause right now i don't even print my pics and don't feel the need to. the reason i'm doing this is to really try the whole darkroom thing. If some day i get enough of it, i'll just go back to 100% digital, instead of complicating things with film scanning and stuff... 
But I really apreciate your advice, thx


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## Hertz van Rental (Jan 8, 2006)

The 'cheap and cheerful' way (no real darkroom needed):
Buy a changing bag (affectionately called 'nuns knickers') to load your film into a daylight processing tank. I have often loaded tanks under the bedclothes ( with the curtains drawn or at night).
Processing your film can then take place in the kitchen or bathroom.
For printing, put a board across the bath (making sure it won't slip) for the enlarger to stand on. Use an extension cable for power.
Put the processing trays in the bath.
Do your printing at night - if you have neon street lights they make a perfect safe light.
But it is easy to black a window out temporarily.
I had one bathroom where I covered the windows with dark red cellophane. During the day it made a perfect safelight.
It is easy to do home processing on the cheap without a permanent darkroom and manage to come up with decent results. You just have to be creative.


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## Alexandra (Jan 9, 2006)

Hertz van Rental said:
			
		

> ...if you have neon street lights they make a perfect safe light.


Are these, like... ordinary neons or specifically "street" ones? Cause i have some plain indoors neons... i guess it's not the same thing, is it?


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## Hertz van Rental (Jan 9, 2006)

No. It's the orange ones. Maybe you don't have them in Canada.


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## 'Daniel' (Jan 10, 2006)

Not that this really matters but I think they're sodium not neon.  Neon lights may not work.  

But maybe I'm wrong.  Hertz usually knows best just thought I'd point it out.


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## Hertz van Rental (Jan 10, 2006)

Daniel said:
			
		

> Not that this really matters but I think they're sodium not neon.  Neon lights may not work.
> 
> But maybe I'm wrong.  Hertz usually knows best just thought I'd point it out.


In this case Hertz is wrong - I did mean Sodium Vapour Lights. One of those mental blocks where you forget a word and substitute something broccoli.

Thanks for the correction.
(I might be mistaken but I'm never wrong  )


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## Alexandra (Jan 10, 2006)

hmmm, that sucks, I don't have the sodium ones... but then again, there's also an ordinaty light bulb which i can replace with a red one. And i don't have windows in the bathroom 

...Hertz was wrong? Did somebody note that, cause we're having an histroric moment now


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## Mohain (Jan 11, 2006)

Also might be a good idea to practise and practise loading an old/used/duff film onto a spiral during daylight and look how it works and how it feeds etc. I found this the most difficult aspect to get right at first. You can easily kink, drop, scratch the film if not done correctly. The rest of film processing is easy, as long as you can read a thermometer and tell the time. 

Enlarging is an art and it would pay to go to a class or two if you can. 

Oh and at some point you DEFINITELY WILL fog a whole box of paper so it's always good to keep a spare on hand :mrgreen:

There's definitely something magical about the darkroom (but you'll still have more control using PS).

Good luck :thumbup:


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## Hertz van Rental (Jan 11, 2006)

Alexandra said:
			
		

> ...Hertz was wrong? Did somebody note that, cause we're having an histroric moment now


Not wrong - just used the wrong worm.


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## weeping widow (Jan 14, 2006)

It really works, just make certain that when you get into the bathroom and close the door, you seal it all around. It would be best if you had an overhead exhaust fan also. I use to develop retina films and it was in a make shift closet so I know the duct tape works. 

I also planned step by step and practiced with the lights on and then the lights off as to where my reels were when I took them out of the camera. 

It was very exciting. You will, I'm sure, enjoy developing film as much as taking the pictures. It's wonderful seeing your hard work come to life!! 

Good Luck!


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## Alexandra (Jan 14, 2006)

heh, the tape's a great idea, thanks!
and yes, i'm very excited about all this... but unfortunately it may take several month before i get all i need and get it all settled... but i'm soooooo looking forward to then


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## Hertz van Rental (Jan 14, 2006)

A curtain over the door is a better idea.
Duct tape is not re-useable, will possibly damage the paintwork and will be reasonably air tight. You need to allow air to get into the room freely - especially if you have an extractor fan - so that you can get ventilation. Using photographic chemicals in an enclosed space without ventilation is a very bad idea.
A curtain is also quicker to rig - a few thumb tacks (drawing pins) on the top of the door frame will hold it.


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## Alexandra (Jan 15, 2006)

gotta agree with the expert here...

hertz, maybe you just saved my life, lol


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## Hertz van Rental (Jan 15, 2006)

Read this thread and the links in it before you start.
http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19002
Photochemistry is only safe if you take the right precautions and it's best to know what you are getting yourself into so you don't take any unnecessary risks.
The same goes for anyone considering doing darkroom - whether you have done it before or not.


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## 'Daniel' (Jan 15, 2006)

Are tanks and reels universal in size so a reel from one company will fit the the tank of another? (35mm)


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## Alexandra (Jan 15, 2006)

you got me wondering here, but i guess they are the same size... why wouldn't they?


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## Jeff Canes (Jan 15, 2006)

Yes and No, any plastic reel should work in a plastic tank and the same with stainless steel, but you can not use a stainless steel reel in a plastic tank, not sure about a plastic reel with a stainless tank


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## Boop's_passion (Jan 24, 2006)

This is amazing.  Thank you alexandra, I was having the same problem.  I had no idea how many options and ways you could have a darkroom.  The knowledge is endless...


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## Alexandra (Jan 24, 2006)

I'm always glad when my ignorance can be any help


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## Boop's_passion (Jan 25, 2006)

Oh it is!  Thank you!


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## greasemonkey (Feb 17, 2006)

Ya, I'm taking a class at school right now but I will be graduationg in the spring, and wanted to set up a darkroom in a bathroom that I have for the summer, and hopefully I can find a place to go when I go to college.  These idea's have been great!  Oh, and personally, I would recomend using a bag for transfering the film from the roll to the canaster.  I haven't tried it just in a dark room, but at school we have the bags, and with a bag, you can't really knock something on the floor in the dark and have to crawl around looking for it.  Just a problem that I know I would run into.


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