# newrmdmike and thebeginnings adventures at a vietnameise wedding



## newrmdmike (Mar 28, 2007)

so me and daniel shot a wedding together a while back, and we thought it would be amusing to post shots of each other from the wedding . . . after 20 hours together that day we have more than a few shots of each other.

heres me the day before scoping out the church and trying to talk this dog into modeling.











hmmm this may be a well documented wedding, i see 6 cameras in this shot.





this is me messing up dans shot by confusing everyone, notice half the ppl are now looking at my camera, haha.





dan, in the bottom right . . .





we like to have a very personal friendly  . . . well just look










i even caught him chimping!





dan being welcomed into the reception





dan, competing with the videographer for a spot.





this is great, hes leaning on that guy, and is tired so he has to hold the cam strap w his other hand while holding a 480. . .  dan, it may be time for a bracket or somthing.





heres are print sales going down the drain to some amatuers


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## Rayna' (Mar 28, 2007)

love your headband dan!


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## JimmyJaceyMom (Mar 28, 2007)

Haha you guys seem like lots of fun!  Looks like a long hard days work.  So sis you already post the real ones form that day?  I bet you got some awesome ones!


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## newrmdmike (Mar 28, 2007)

more to come!


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## newrmdmike (Mar 28, 2007)

no, we havn't posted any real shots yet, don't expect that for a few weeks, we've been putting off processing a bit


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## JimmyJaceyMom (Mar 28, 2007)

cool, can't wait to see.  And can't wait to do weddings either.


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## thebeginning (Mar 28, 2007)

newrmdmike said:


> we like to have a very personal friendly  . . . well just look




^ chyeaaaah







newrmdmike said:


> i even caught him chimping!



^I think the word is blinking...haha.  and what is this 'chimp' word you speak of?? 






newrmdmike said:


> dan being welcomed into the reception



^ dude. I was just being funny...  for some reason the word 'flamboyant' comes to mind...:shock:





newrmdmike said:


> this is great, hes leaning on that guy, and is tired so he has to hold the cam strap w his other hand while holding a 480. . .  dan, it may be time for a bracket or somthing.



^hahaha yesss!  actually I wasn't leaning on him...but we'll pretend I was because that's funnier.




newrmdmike said:


> heres are print sales going down the drain to some amatuers



^how dare you, that's blasphemy!!


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## thebeginning (Mar 28, 2007)

here are some from me...

let me know if you want any off here mike 


waiting for the reception to begin (shall we say):





shootin a bridal portrait:





mike looking confused in the balcony:





dangit, mike! 





downtown houston:










with his girlfriend/our awesome assistant:





can't touch this:





aaaand of course:


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## thebeginning (Mar 30, 2007)

bump



I think we might have scared 'em away, mike


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## LittleMan (Mar 30, 2007)

I find it funny that y'all are messing up each others photos by being in the frame...


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## Rayna' (Mar 30, 2007)

more please!


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## karissa (Mar 30, 2007)

Haha,... to fun!


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## RMThompson (Mar 31, 2007)

I personally dont find it fun at all. I mean, I assume you had time, but were you shooting this wedding professionaly? I would assume you were and if so, the attention should be on the bride and her party. What if you were getting a shot of your buddy, and you missed out on a great shot of the bride?

I dont have the most equipment, or make the most money, but I would never play around at a pro gig.


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## thebeginning (Mar 31, 2007)

RMThompson said:


> I personally dont find it fun at all. I mean, I assume you had time, but were you shooting this wedding professionaly? I would assume you were and if so, the attention should be on the bride and her party. What if you were getting a shot of your buddy, and you missed out on a great shot of the bride?
> 
> I dont have the most equipment, or make the most money, but I would never play around at a pro gig.




haha are you serious??

first off...yes we were shooting this professionally.  second, who said weddings couldn't be fun? in fact I find it better in almost every situation to try to lighten the mood as much as possible. you need to maintain a level of respect with your clients (in this case a bride and groom) but they need to like you as a person as well.  I know when and when not to act 'fun'.  None of the shots you see here caused us to lose any critical shots (and we got a lot of critical shots...over 30 gigs worth).  If they would have, we would not have taken them.  The only ones that even get remotely close to that were the ones where we were in each other's photos by accident.  that happens.  all the other shots were shots taken when there was nothing else to do (like when mike was taking the bridal portraits, I was not needed), test shots or shots taken when we had a break (between the ceremony and reception there was a 4 hour break. we had already completed the detail shots in the reception).  none of these shots took more than a single second to compose and snap, anyway.


i respect your opinion and how seriously you take your clients (I too take my clients extremely seriously) but I also know that there is a point where there is 'too much serious', resulting in a stiff relationship between client and photographer.


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## JimmyJaceyMom (Mar 31, 2007)

I would think that as a professional you would know which clients appreciate a sense of humor and which prefer that you do your thing quietly.  I think they have to be comfortable and so do you, if a photographer were too serious it may make some nervous.. even on my wedding day I was not keen about having cameras on me (we didn't even have a photographer) but I think these two would have put me at ease about that!


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## thebeginning (Mar 31, 2007)

JimmyJaceyMom said:


> I would think that as a professional you would know which clients appreciate a sense of humor and which prefer that you do your thing quietly.  I think they have to be comfortable and so do you, if a photographer were too serious it may make some nervous.. even on my wedding day I was not keen about having cameras on me (we didn't even have a photographer) but I think these two would have put me at ease about that!



well thanks!  that's what we hoped to do...it worked quite well at this wedding!


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## Frequent Traveler (Mar 31, 2007)

From the looks of the wedding party, everyone was having a good time. Given excellent photographic work, everyone having *fun* at a wedding shoot is the single best advertising your business will ever get - most people may not remember a good photographer, but certainly everyone does remember those that have too much need for schedules - it's called PUSHY. Maybe RMThompson was simply trying to mention a bad side of too much fun by the photog's.

You have a great advertising opportunity at weddings - the unmarried females who live in your area - they are most often the decision maker in their weddings. They will remember how fun, easy and PROFESSIONAL you were especially as they look at their friends photos - you have the opportunity to be the photographer that they compare "the other guy" to - you can become the "benchmark". Not a single one of them will remember a missed shot unless you made a huge error - which does not seem to be the case, but they will remember how nice, easy and fun you were.

Professionalism is presumed (but oh how quickly it can evaporate!!!) and if, at the end of the day, you deliver the goods your light demeanor can convey confidence. This, as well as not having to control every little thing with an iron fist (AKA seriousness - no fun there). This isn't to mean constant clowning around, but you seem to know the difference. ; -)

Anyway, all this speaks nothing of helping put a potentially nervous wedding party at ease - another "perK' you can deliver - free of charge!

fm


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## newrmdmike (Apr 2, 2007)

haha, dan . . . i'll just call you about it.

anyways, how about posting some actual shots from the wedding? i think i will soon.


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## RMThompson (Apr 2, 2007)

thebeginning said:


> haha are you serious??
> 
> first off...yes we were shooting this professionally. second, who said weddings couldn't be fun? in fact I find it better in almost every situation to try to lighten the mood as much as possible. you need to maintain a level of respect with your clients (in this case a bride and groom) but they need to like you as a person as well. I know when and when not to act 'fun'. None of the shots you see here caused us to lose any critical shots (and we got a lot of critical shots...over 30 gigs worth). If they would have, we would not have taken them. The only ones that even get remotely close to that were the ones where we were in each other's photos by accident. that happens. all the other shots were shots taken when there was nothing else to do (like when mike was taking the bridal portraits, I was not needed), test shots or shots taken when we had a break (between the ceremony and reception there was a 4 hour break. we had already completed the detail shots in the reception). none of these shots took more than a single second to compose and snap, anyway.
> 
> ...


 

You misunderstand me. 

I mean there could probably be instances where this works against you. For instance in one picture, your partner is leaning against someone taking a difficult shot of some people dancing. You are taking a picture of him taking that picture, but who knows what Uncle Bob is doing? Maybe having a sweet dance with his daughter standing on his feet, but you didn't see it because you were taking the picture of taking the picture. In another you caught him chimping, but there is a bunch of people in the background apparently listening to someone. Both of you were NOT taking pictures.

I love fun as much as the next guy, but there is a time and place.

The shots before the wedding or reception, when people are standing around anyway, no biggie, I don't think a Bridal Party would mind much, but I still wouldn't be snapping pictures of my partner. I'm here to be as professional and serious as possible.

Eh Oh well, different strokes for different folks I suppose.


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## newrmdmike (Apr 2, 2007)

no, i think you misunderstand us.  this is a tiny portion of the day, during which there were several breaks with nothing happening.  we don't shoot the same thing over and over and over, we get the shot and move on.  if there is no shot, there is nothing we can do but wait for a minute, then boom, you have the above photos.

two photogs photographing the same thing is a bit of a no no in a posed situation.  one photog poses, the other may get a better shot and then its ackward when they want to buy the other guys print.

were you there? no, so zip.

guess what, we worked a 15 hour day . . . believe me, there is no shot we missed, and if we did it is overshadowed by the 30gb of other photos.

while yes, there is a time and place to mess around, i don't think you realize that the shots you see are making up about 15 minutes of time, or less.

are you going to tell me that in a 15 hour workday you don't have 15 minutes where you go . . . "ok, what to shoot?"

if not then bravo, but i highly doubt that.


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## RMThompson (Apr 2, 2007)

Again, I am not criticizing the downtime shots, I understand that, even though if I had paid for you and saw you taking pictures of each other I might be upset... I wouldn't say a word.

The problem I have are specifically in the two shots, the one where is taking a picture of people dancing, and you are taking a picture of him (or is it vice versa?)

You can't tell me there isn't something else you could've been doing? There wasn't ANOTHER shot you could've been taking? A floor shot? Uncle Bob? A bridesmain crying in the corner?

No doubt you did a good job, I am not doubting you, your partner, nor either of your skills, just the work ethic. You worked 15 hours and goofed off for 15 minutes, great... but my point is, there are shots that are only available for 10 seconds, and if taking one of these shots missed one of those, then you've done your client.

However I will not "zip". You've posted your pictures on a forum, asking for critiques. Just because I am the minority here doesn't mean I am going to shut up. You have my opinion.

Great shots BTW, in the other thread. I like your work, keep it up.


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## thebeginning (Apr 2, 2007)

RMThompson said:


> Again, I am not criticizing the downtime shots, I understand that, even though if I had paid for you and saw you taking pictures of each other I might be upset... I wouldn't say a word.
> 
> The problem I have are specifically in the two shots, the one where is taking a picture of people dancing, and you are taking a picture of him (or is it vice versa?)
> 
> ...




I see where you're coming from...if I saw something like this from another photographer (without knowing the circumstances) I might have a similar opinion as well.  I think what mike was trying to say was that we were shooting constantly. literally.  we took so many shots of so many people in so many situations that any other shots (unless some unique or special turned up) would basically just be wasting space that we didn't really have.  We kept our eyes open for anything special happening, and if it didn't, we didn't shoot it.  If there wasn't anything happening, or if there was something happening that wasn't super important, like the cake-cutting (haha just kidding), we might have snapped a photo of eachother.  like i said before, no more than a split second.  and of the 'uncle bob' shots and other shots like that, we got quite a few.  I honestly think that we didn't miss any special moments or great shots because of any of the photos we took here.


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## AprilRamone (Apr 2, 2007)

Sorry RM, I see your point, but I think it's very thin.  Do you think that a wedding photographer shouldn't at some point get a break (like to eat) on a full day wedding shoot?  There is a reason why some wedding photography companies have 2+ photographers  shooting an event.  So that they can get most of the special moments captured, but even if you had 50 photographers milling about anticipating moments and non-stop shooting, they will miss SOMETHING.  
If I saw my wedding photographer being crazy and goofing off for a good amount of time, I'd say something, but if they were just having fun and I had seen their work before and liked it, I doubt I'd worry about anything and just trust that they know what they are doing.


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## newrmdmike (Apr 2, 2007)

THANKYOU!


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## Richard (Apr 2, 2007)

Ok here is an opinion from someone who doesnt consider themselves a real photographer yet. I understand RMThompson is saying, for example if I paid big bucks for a service and I saw them playing around even if it was one time for 10 second, but that happen to be the exact time I saw them, well I wouldnt make a big deal of it quite yet. That would just sit in the back of my head. Especially if you have been joking with me and the guest previously, and Ive gotten to know your personality a bit. What would happen is I would be expecting some great photos. Im assuming I have already seen your work and know what I am expecting. If I get anything less then thats when that time I saw you playing around might come back to me, then I might get upset.

I can kinda see how fooling around in your situation might be a little dangerous. There is a small risk you could make the client upset, but at the end if you produce the expected or even better than expected then I know I really wouldnt care how much joking around you guys did.

On the other hand I can see that instead of joking around with each other you could have been joking around with the guest to try to make some more crazy pictures, which is like being a perfect employee and always concentrating on work. But come on who wants to concentrate on work 100% of the time. Shoot Im writing this while Im at work!

BTW with the pictures you posted I can already tell you guys know what your doing behind a camera so I'm sure the real pictures will be great and when the Bride and Groom see them they will be very happy.


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## Rayna' (Apr 2, 2007)

blah blah blah...more pic please!


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## thebeginning (Apr 2, 2007)

Rayna' said:


> blah blah blah...more pic please!



that's all i have :cry:


at least of the shots of mike...


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## Rayna' (Apr 2, 2007)

thebeginning said:


> that's all i have :cry:
> 
> 
> at least of the shots of mike...


 
that's ok..it just looked like a fun wedding.


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## RMThompson (Apr 3, 2007)

AprilRamone said:


> Sorry RM, I see your point, but I think it's very thin. Do you think that a wedding photographer shouldn't at some point get a break (like to eat) on a full day wedding shoot? There is a reason why some wedding photography companies have 2+ photographers shooting an event. So that they can get most of the special moments captured, but even if you had 50 photographers milling about anticipating moments and non-stop shooting, they will miss SOMETHING.
> If I saw my wedding photographer being crazy and goofing off for a good amount of time, I'd say something, but if they were just having fun and I had seen their work before and liked it, I doubt I'd worry about anything and just trust that they know what they are doing.


 

Again, people are missing my point.  

Did you NOT see the picture where he is taking a picture of his partner, who is in turn taking a picture of people dancing? Of course the wedding photogs get a break, we aren't talking about during a break, he can go do whatever he wants during the break! 

My point is this: In that moment, there COULD'VE been an opportunity for a shot he missed, merely because he was shooting his friend instead of focusing on the wedding party.

I'm merely suggestion the POSSIBILITY, I'm not saying that they did this, nor am I saying they DID upset their customer, merely (again) suggesting the possibility that it could happen if one weren't really paying attention!


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## thebeginning (Apr 3, 2007)

RMThompson said:


> Again, people are missing my point.
> 
> Did you NOT see the picture where he is taking a picture of his partner, who is in turn taking a picture of people dancing? Of course the wedding photogs get a break, we aren't talking about during a break, he can go do whatever he wants during the break!
> 
> ...



yes, but you could also miss that split-second amazing shot because you're taking mediocre shots of guests dancing and such.  you're always going to miss SOME shots, whether you're having fun with it or not.  the more you drill this point of yours the less valid it seems...


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## RMThompson (Apr 3, 2007)

bleh.

You're right. Who cares, you didn't shoot my wedding.

When I originally posted, I thought I might be offering some friendly advice... but I've annoyed everyone.

Whatever. I'll shut up and keep my opinions to myself.... just like you want!


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## newrmdmike (Apr 3, 2007)

yay!


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## newrmdmike (Apr 3, 2007)

by the way, here is a link to some of the actual wedding shots.

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=76966

to the ppl criticizing the playfulness . . . since you weren't there i don't think you really have any room to talk, you don't know what was going on.

rm, the pic i took of him taking pictures of ppl, hmmm  . . . we have over 400 presentable shots from the reception. do you really think i missed anything big? if i did, daniel has a picture of it, and if he did i have a pic of it.


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## newrmdmike (Apr 3, 2007)

criticizing photos i'm okay with, but criticizing my work ethic when you weren't even there is pretty low.

i've had an ongoing relationship with this client for over a year, i must be doing somthing right.  in fact, after jobs they take me out to eat at the stakehouse . . . i'm pretty sure they really love what we are doing.  also, i have never, NEVER, not once had someone tell me they were unhappy with what i gave them, and i ask.  in a fifteen hour day there are lulls, especially with two photographers and an assistant.

have those who were complaining ever shot a wedding? if you have then surely you would know that at the reception you get a chance to slow down and stop scrambling, sit down, eat, talk to guests, etc. ITS BEING PERSONABLE, it will get you farther than good photographs ever will.


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## Richard (Apr 3, 2007)

I&#8217;m sorry I love debates&#8230; so I&#8217;m going to take another bite. J

RMT I understand what you are saying, of there is a chance to miss a great shot, of course, even if you are constantly shooting you could have a great shot behind you. Bottom line if I was the groom, did the photographer get the main shots, were there plenty of AWESOME photos. If yes then I got my money&#8217;s worth. Bottom line I will refer them and I would probably come back. 

But let just say that some time that day there was the most perfect shot, this is the shot worth a million, and these guys missed it. Well what I don&#8217;t know isn&#8217;t going to kill me, because if the above stuff is AWESOME then I&#8217;m happy.

Now lets say they got that million dollar shot, HOLY COW, yes that would be the feakin&#8217; best, I would be blown away and really talk about the photographer even more most likely. But this risk of missing a million dollar shot is every time, even if you are 100% shooting no breaks, no snack, no cigarette. You could be snapping a picture and the million dollar shot is on the other side of the room. I think we can all agree with you RMT the more you concentrate on the wedding the more dedicated you are the better your chances are you  will not miss the million dollar shot, but like I said earlier what the Groom and Bride don&#8217;t know won&#8217;t kill them or your business.

RMT I can say you are a more dedicated photographer than theses guys BUT that really isn&#8217;t the most important to me, the most important is how great your photos are, even if you shoot the million dollar shot, but don&#8217;t know what you are doing then that million dollar shot turns to a 1 dollar shot. The quality of the main shots are always more important to me than the others, I mean I&#8217;m not going to blow up a 24X36 of my friends drinking.

Disclaimer: I also respect the photographers in this situation and understand we don&#8217;t know the real details of this shoot. So I feel RMT should have been more careful with what he criticized at the beginning. But I love a debate and I can&#8217;t help myself and I&#8217;m done I think I got my point across.

CASE CLOSED

Thanks RMT for a great debate it was fun.


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## Rayna' (Apr 3, 2007)




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## newrmdmike (Apr 3, 2007)

haha. . . .

richard, you really think you can decide who the more dedicated photographer is?  do you know rmt, me or daniel?


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## Richard (Apr 3, 2007)

I forgot to thank *newrmdmike *for starting this thread... if it wasn't for you this debate would have never happened... THANK YOU!:mrgreen:


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## thebeginning (Apr 3, 2007)

newrmdmike said:


> haha. . . .
> 
> richard, you really think you can decide who the more dedicated photographer is?  do you know rmt, me or daniel?



careful mike, i think he's on our side! 

but i can say that both of us (me and mike) were very dedicated at this shoot


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## Richard (Apr 3, 2007)

When I'm taking about dedicated I'm talking about I feel like RMT would **** in a cup instead of go to the bathroom, that kind of dedication... I mean come on that is a feakin' dedicatd photographer and honestly I hope they are rare. That is what I meant by he is more dedicated.


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## RMThompson (Apr 3, 2007)

Richard said:


> When I'm taking about dedicated I'm talking about I feel like RMT would **** in a cup instead of go to the bathroom, that kind of dedication... I mean come on that is a feakin' dedicatd photographer and honestly I hope they are rare. That is what I meant by he is more dedicated.


 
Richard,

You don't know ANYTHING about me, other than what you've read in the thread here so don't start assuming you know me.

Furthermore, don't start putting me down because I have a dissenting opinion about these series of thoughts.

A DISCUSSION board is here for discussion, hence the name, and not putting others down. 

Read above, you'll notice that I did not ONCE put them down, in fact I congratulated them on the great pictures, and yet you and they find it necessary to put me down to make your point.

I think that is weak minded. I too love a good debate, I don't like name-calling or trash talking or belittling someone in a feeble attempt to clarify a point.


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## RMThompson (Apr 3, 2007)

newrmdmike said:


> criticizing photos i'm okay with, but criticizing my work ethic when you weren't even there is pretty low.
> 
> i've had an ongoing relationship with this client for over a year, i must be doing somthing right. in fact, after jobs they take me out to eat at the stakehouse . . . i'm pretty sure they really love what we are doing. also, i have never, NEVER, not once had someone tell me they were unhappy with what i gave them, and i ask. in a fifteen hour day there are lulls, especially with two photographers and an assistant.
> 
> have those who were complaining ever shot a wedding? if you have then surely you would know that at the reception you get a chance to slow down and stop scrambling, sit down, eat, talk to guests, etc. ITS BEING PERSONABLE, it will get you farther than good photographs ever will.


 
Here is where the situation changes. At no point did you ever mention that you've worked with them before, nor did you suggest that you've almost got a friendly relationship with them, which changes everything.

Can you imagine hiring a photography team for the first time for your daughters wedding, and during the wedding you caught them taking pictures of each other? That would be bad, and that is my point.

I've said from the beginning that your shots were good, I never said you didn't have a good work ethic, I merely stated that I would NEVER do this, because I want to mantain a professional atmosphere... now if I was shooting friends of mine shots, or even clients I'd worked with a few times before, the situation loosens, and I can see taking a minute here or there.

You'll also note, if you read my posts, that I did not say ANYTHING about the pictures during the downtime, before/after the ceremony, or when nothing was really going on... 

Bottom Line:

1. Your shots are amazing, better than anything I've ever shot.
2. You two work well together, that much is clear.
3. The bride and groom are happy? Perfect.
4. I merely had a different opinion about shooting the partner during a pro shot, especially since the first post you said "this is me messing up dans shot by confusing everyone, notice half the ppl are now looking at my camera, haha."


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## RMThompson (Apr 3, 2007)

Richard said:


> Im sorry I love debates so Im going to take another bite. J
> CASE CLOSED
> 
> Thanks RMT for a great debate it was fun.


 
P.S. In order for you and I to have a debate, we have to discuss something. A debate is not one person spewing something out and then saying CASE CLOSED.


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## Rayna' (Apr 3, 2007)

hehe


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## newrmdmike (Apr 3, 2007)

haha, i was just joshing about messing up dans shot, i wouldn't do that intentionally.

also, rmt, your right about that richard character. . . although its fun to jump in.


this thread started like a bloopers real . . . not like, hey look how we jipped this couple.

soooo i'm thinking as usual misunderstandings started a great thread!


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## Arch (Apr 3, 2007)

good stuff guys... nice work... its good that you enjoy your sessions.

Can people please keep this thread on topic from now on


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## Richard (Apr 3, 2007)

> P.S. In order for you and I to have a debate, we have to discuss something. A debate is not one person spewing something out and then saying CASE CLOSED.


 
Ya I agree that this is not a REAL debate, but it was still fun and I was just trying to be funny. And I do apologize on the bathroom comment I admit I exaggerated to make a point, but the principle is still there. That you do come across as a photographer that would take a 15 min snack break vs. a 30 min snack break, because you don't want to miss a great shot. And that is fine. And maybe these guys would take a 30 min snack break, but I personally being the Groom would not care about 15mins if they guys had gotten great photos. If I was a pro I would be I would be more like you RMT (as far I can tell with these post) especially if I was new at being a pro, I would be so nervous I think I would be tempted to bring a cup just in case, but as I got more experience I think I would be able to relax more and know what a client really wants and I would know that I can do what the client really wants which is GREAT photos. 



P.S. thebeginning- I just want to say I like your senior photos, I can only hope I would be able to be that good eventually.


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## dewey (Apr 3, 2007)

Anyone who has ever shot a wedding... especially the ones that last 12 hours... knows that there are moments when EVERYONE needs a break including the couple / family / etc.  A flash and cameras in your face ALL DAY can wear on people.

I think part of being a good wedding photographer is knowing when to let everyone take a break.

Nice shots. :thumbup:


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