# First bw photo with one object color!!



## Sugarbug2 (Jun 30, 2011)

It's easier than I thought it would be!!! What do you guys think?


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## Muusers (Jun 30, 2011)

The picture is ok. I don't get why the seat is colored though...


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## Sugarbug2 (Jun 30, 2011)

Yeah I was just finding a pic to experiment with...no reason the seat is colored besides it was easy to do my first time!


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## subscuck (Jun 30, 2011)

You'll find selective coloring generally gets a pretty cool reception on teh internets.


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## shmne (Jun 30, 2011)

To save you from several harsher people that are people ready to post here. Selective coloring (the process of creating an image that is b&w with certain objects colored) is considered tacky, and is something everyone should stay away from. Certain times use is considered "okay" but most would agree you should really know what you're doing in order to do it. 

I think this is a good experiment, and is a good learning lesson. You should take this and apply it in new ways, however this is one way most of the posters of the community will not want to see. Not saying that you have to please us in any way, just that you will probably get better feedback avoiding this technique. 

Right now what is happening in this photo to a fresh viewer: Oh neat-o a black and white image. WOW that seat is orange in this image! That must be the subject, oh wait there is a child on the seat. Which is more important?? **Eye fights over child and chair for several seconds** Then the viewer may also be discouraged from the soft focus of the subject, thus pushing the seat as the subject of the photo... which in all honesty is not the real subject. 

A good exercise none the less. Keep up the work


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## lyonsroar (Jun 30, 2011)

Good Facebook reception
Poor TPF reception


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## gsgary (Jun 30, 2011)

Awful


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## Bitter Jeweler (Jun 30, 2011)

shmne said:


> To save you from several harsher people that are people ready to post here....





gsgary said:


> Awful



Wooomp! There it is!


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## subscuck (Jun 30, 2011)

Basically Shmne said what I wanted to say, but couldn't put it in a way that didn't sound, to me, like I was bashing you. A good rule of thumb is, if it flies on Face Book, it won't fly here. Most of the people here are pretty passionate about photography whether they're pros or hobbyists, and we tend to look at photos in a way your friends on Face Book don't. Bitter Jeweler, a member here, put it best about looking for critique; Avoid the 4 F's: Family, Friends, Face Book and Flickr.

EDIT: Type the Devil's name and the Devil appears. Hey, Bitter!


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## lyonsroar (Jun 30, 2011)

subscuck said:


> Basically Shmne said what I wanted to say, but couldn't put it in a way that didn't sound, to me, like I was bashing you. A good rule of thumb is, if it flies on Face Book, it won't fly here. Most of the people here are pretty passionate about photography whether they're pros or hobbyists, and we tend to look at photos in a way your friends on Face Book don't. Bitter Jeweler, a member here, put it best about looking for critique; Avoid the 4 F's: Family, Friends, Face Book and Flickr.
> 
> EDIT: Type the Devil's name and the Devil appears. Hey, Bitter!



Haaa...  My photos crash and burn on facebook (no interest,) but generally get good reception here.


You forgot the 5th F.  (other) Forums
:lmao:


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## subscuck (Jun 30, 2011)

lyonsroar said:


> You forgot the 5th F.  (other) Forums
> :lmao:



Depends. Some of 'em are touchy-feely-good-job type forums, but some make this place look like a walk in the park.


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## lyonsroar (Jun 30, 2011)

subscuck said:


> lyonsroar said:
> 
> 
> > You forgot the 5th F.  (other) Forums
> ...



This is true.  I'm on car forums and regardless of how the photo is, most people are just like "ooh, better than my P&S!  Must be a pro"


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## Geaux (Jun 30, 2011)

lol.

BUT, you got a hot avatar picture, so they'll be nice to you...or nicer to you than what others would get.  *looks out for schwetty*


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## mrpink (Jun 30, 2011)

Here is what your photo says in text....

"I cannot see the rest of the seat, that kid is sitting on it."

I am sure that is not the intention of the photo, so the SC is out of place.






p!nK


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## Sugarbug2 (Jun 30, 2011)

Shmne: Completely see everywhere you're coming from...good advice I can actually learn from. Thanks! 

Geaux: Thank for the compliment 

Subsuck: I didn't think you were bashing me. Thanks for the advice.  

gsgary: Awful? That's all you can come up with? Most people that know what they're talking about usually have a proper explanation. 

bitter jeweler: The point of the "beginners forum" is for people to learn...so unless you're giving me some advice that I could use in the future, stay the hell off of my posts. OH and nice animation on the post asshole. 


mrpink: yeah, I see where you're coming from...I'll probably just go with the subject next time!


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## The_Traveler (Jun 30, 2011)

Sugarbug2 said:


> bitter jeweler: The point of the "beginners forum" is for people to learn...so unless you're giving me some advice that I could use in the future, stay the hell off of my posts. OH and nice animation on the post asshole.



This was a complete misread, Sugarbug.  Bitter Jeweler was commenting on the fact that someone made a harsh criticism as predicted. BJ doesn't deserve that slam but does deserve an apology.

All of us can be assholes at times, but this wasn't one of them.


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## lyonsroar (Jun 30, 2011)

This is gon' be fuuuuun!


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## Bitter Jeweler (Jun 30, 2011)

subscuck said:


> EDIT: Type the Devil's name and the Devil appears. Hey, Bitter!



Evil is funny like that!


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## Sugarbug2 (Jun 30, 2011)

okay, okay guys...I overracted. I definately comprehended it the wrong way! I've just seen all of Bitter's comments on other people's posts, so I assumed he was being an ass to me too. hehe. 

Bitter, I'm sorry!!! Please forgive me...you all can be confusing to a beginner on here! I really am sorry!


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## jmash (Jun 30, 2011)

Who cares what any of these other 'self-proclaimed' professionals think.  If you like the picture and the single color, the go wild! Photography,  just like any art, holds if beauty in the eye of the beholder.


gsgary said:


> Awful


And for Gary, if you are just going to come on to be completely negative and offer no constructive criticism, stay out of the beginners section, you are being of no help.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Jun 30, 2011)

Sugarbug2 said:


> bitter jeweler: The point of the "beginners forum" is for people to learn...so unless you're giving me some advice that I could use in the future, stay the hell off of my posts. OH and nice animation on the post asshole.



 I'm soooo misunderstood! 

I was making fun of our friend gary.

Anyways, you'll either love me or hate me, like everyone else. Time will tell.

Bygones!


BTW, your screen name reminds me of Jolene from Mel's Dinner, after Flo left, when it jumped the shark. Wasn't she always saying sugarbug?


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## Bitter Jeweler (Jun 30, 2011)

Sugarbug2 said:


> okay, okay guys...I overracted. I definately comprehended it the wrong way! I've just seen all of Bitter's comments on other people's posts, so I assumed he was being an ass to me too. hehe.
> 
> Bitter, I'm sorry!!! Please forgive me...you all can be confusing to a beginner on here! I really am sorry!



No problem. But you really need to read the whole book before you judge.


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## Sugarbug2 (Jun 30, 2011)

ahhhh finally some advice from you...nice.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Jun 30, 2011)

Sugarbug, this is how it's done...



jmash said:


> Who cares what any of these other 'self-proclaimed' professionals think. If you like the picture and the single color, the go wild! *Photography, just like any art, holds if beauty in the eye of the beholder.
> *



LIES! 

There are many time tested, psychologically and scientifically proven elements of design and composition. I suggest you learn them jmash. While it's true, if the creator of the image likes it, that is indeed fine. However, if sugarbug came here to learn and get better at her craft, she will listen to people who know better than you. Selective color can work. But it's not something to be used willy nilly, just because you can. This applies to many techniques and treatments in photography. Sugarbugs post is an excellent time to learn about this. I knew she was just experimenting, and there was no need to judge her image, just the success of the technique. But now is the time to teach her WHEN to use the tool she just picked up. So, jmash, your post comes out of pure feel good ignorance, and is *NOT* helpful to the OP. If you came here to learn, I suggest you sit back and do a ton of reading. But please...*DON'T* be the teacher.


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## lyonsroar (Jun 30, 2011)

OP's first post:


			
				Sugarbug2 said:
			
		

> What do you guys think?


...so she obviously cares what other people think.



jmash said:


> Who cares what any of these other 'self-proclaimed' professionals think. If you like the picture and the single color, the go wild! Photography, just like any art, holds if beauty in the eye of the beholder.



If "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" then why would anyone clutter up the "Beginners section" with posts asking for C&C?  Every C&C is going to be exactly the same.



> Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.





> If you like it then it's good.





> To each their own.





> I'm glad you like it!





> Hang it on your wall!




Same post, different words.


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## CCericola (Jun 30, 2011)

Hi there,

If you are really into the art of Black and white and hand coloring check out Kim Anderson. His work might inspire you.

http://www.prints.com/art.php/Kim_Anderson/?artist_id=2954&type=6


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## gsgary (Jul 1, 2011)

Sugarbug2 said:


> Shmne: Completely see everywhere you're coming from...good advice I can actually learn from. Thanks!
> 
> Geaux: Thank for the compliment
> 
> ...




You asked what we thought of it, you didn't ask for C+C, by the way it's also out of focus


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## gsgary (Jul 1, 2011)

jmash said:


> Who cares what any of these other 'self-proclaimed' professionals think.  If you like the picture and the single color, the go wild! Photography,  just like any art, holds if beauty in the eye of the beholder.
> 
> 
> gsgary said:
> ...



Read the post, it was not asked for, i'm in the beginner section to help people who want to be helped because i'm sure i have helped a few


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## Kbarredo (Jul 1, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> shmne said:
> 
> 
> > To save you from several harsher people that are people ready to post here....
> ...





gsgary said:


> jmash said:
> 
> 
> > Who cares what any of these other 'self-proclaimed' professionals think.  If you like the picture and the single color, the go wild! Photography,  just like any art, holds if beauty in the eye of the beholder.
> ...


 You have also threatened to punch people in the face.


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## gsgary (Jul 1, 2011)

Kbarredo said:


> Bitter Jeweler said:
> 
> 
> > shmne said:
> ...



I said lights out, i'm very touchy about drugs after what happened


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## JeffieLove (Jul 1, 2011)

gsgary said:


> jmash said:
> 
> 
> > Who cares what any of these other 'self-proclaimed' professionals think.  If you like the picture and the single color, the go wild! Photography,  just like any art, holds if beauty in the eye of the beholder.
> ...





In all honesty, as much as I can't stand Gary half the time, I have learned a couple things from him. I know he's helped me with lighting... 

However, I do agree with the majority of the comments of him being an ass... He's just straight forward and honest and tells it how it is.. just like a lot of other British people I know.. 

Anywho, to be on topic, I think Shmne had the best post in the thread... At least some of us here are still willing to "warn" newcomers of what's about to happen when they post something like this... 

And jmash, yes, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder", BUT, there are "standards" for photography and professionals (not that I am one) get very upset when they see a new photographer taking horrible photos and making money off of them. The money those "newbies" make is severely less than the professional, but with the economy the way it is, people will go to the cheaper, less competent photographer and the seasoned pro will lose business and probably their livelihood  

I'm done for now  Time to go get my toes done for the 4th


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## gsgary (Jul 1, 2011)

JeffieLove said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> > jmash said:
> ...




Only half the time, i must try harder


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## kundalini (Jul 1, 2011)

Gary cracks me up with his candor.  The thing is, he can sum up in a few words what many viewers may be thinking but try to fashion their comment around politeness (to some degree).  

Trying harder Gary would only make you half the man that I have come to respect.  Unless, of course, it's the spelling, grammar and punctuation you're talking about.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Jul 1, 2011)

JeffieLove said:


> And jmash, yes, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder", BUT, there are "standards" for photography and professionals (not that I am one) get very upset when they see a new photographer taking horrible photos and making money off of them. The money those "newbies" make is severely less than the professional, but with the economy the way it is, people will go to the cheaper, less competent photographer and the seasoned pro will lose business and probably their livelihood



Yeah, that's not it at all. It's not even about "standards". It's about being art ignorant.

But way to bring in a totally unrealted heated topic!


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## Raian-san (Jul 1, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> Yeah, that's not it at all. It's not even about "standards". It's about being art ignorant.
> 
> But way to bring in a totally unrealted heated topic!



It's Friday, we need to get fired up for the Holiday weekend!


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## gsgary (Jul 1, 2011)

kundalini said:


> Gary cracks me up with his candor.  The thing is, he can sum up in a few words what many viewers may be thinking but try to fashion their comment around politeness (to some degree).
> 
> Trying harder Gary would only make you half the man that I have come to respect.  Unless, of course, it's the spelling, grammar and punctuation you're talking about.



You got it wrong, i must try harder so she can't stand me at all


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## Overread (Jul 1, 2011)

Gary knows his stuff, but he's one of those people you have a to poke a good few times to open up sometimes - he just doesn't like writing essays without some prompting first  Other than that he's generally just a softy - even his harshness is too short and quick to be really what many would call scathing


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## CCericola (Jul 1, 2011)

Uh oh Gary, Overread is ruining your "street cred"


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## mishele (Jul 1, 2011)

Learn them, then break them!!!

10 Top Photography Composition Rules | Photography Mad


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## Raian-san (Jul 1, 2011)

Overread said:


> Gary knows his stuff, but he's one of those people you have a to poke a good few times to open up sometimes - he just doesn't like writing essays without some prompting first  Other than that he's generally just a softy - even his harshness is too short and quick to be really what many would call scathing



In other words, Gary is like a soft shell crab. Looks intimidating and hard on the outside, but you can just bite right through him.


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## CCericola (Jul 1, 2011)

mmm soft shell crabs. Now I'm hungry. Thanks Raian-san!


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## Kbarredo (Jul 1, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> shmne said:
> 
> 
> > To save you from several harsher people that are people ready to post here....
> ...


 I've never had one do you eat the whole thing guts and all or Just pick the parts you like. 





Raian-san said:


> Overread said:
> 
> 
> > Gary knows his stuff, but he's one of those people you have a to poke a good few times to open up sometimes - he just doesn't like writing essays without some prompting first  Other than that he's generally just a softy - even his harshness is too short and quick to be really what many would call scathing
> ...


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## Raian-san (Jul 1, 2011)

CCericola said:


> mmm soft shell crabs. Now I'm hungry. Thanks Raian-san!



I know right, some Spider rolls does sound good right now!


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## Sugarbug2 (Jul 1, 2011)

Gary: would it have been so hard to say it was out of focus in the first place?!   that probably wouldn't made this thread about 1/3 the length lol! Us here in the south view 'what do you guys think' as c&c, sorry I guess I will be more clear as to what I want next time! Hheehe anyway, my next photo will hopefully be better...I wasn't even using my good camera then, it was awhile back! 

Everybody have an awesome and safe 4th...thank a soldier!!


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## lyonsroar (Jul 1, 2011)

Sugarbug2 said:


> that probably wouldn't made this thread about 1/3 the length



No it wouldn't have.  From the typing of the thread title this thread was doomed.


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## MissCream (Jul 1, 2011)

Geaux said:


> lol.
> 
> BUT, you got a hot avatar picture, so they'll be nice to you...or nicer to you than what others would get.  *looks out for schwetty*




Bahahahahahaha

Sigh.


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## Derrel (Jul 2, 2011)

Raian-san said:
			
		

> In other words, Gary is like a soft shell crab. Looks intimidating and hard on the outside, but you can just bite right through him.



Uh, NO, that's a bad,bad analogy; inside, a softshell crab is sweet and delicious. Inside of gsgary it's all bile and muscle and fermented beer...

As to " *First bw photo with one object color!!", somehow I don't think this is the first photo that has been made that way...I **think** I might have seen that done before, maybe, a time or two. But it's a brilliant idea, no doubt!*


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## franco stacy (Jul 2, 2011)

I am new or at least infrequent on here and not much over a P&S, but I have had several years of art. But I always find it.......ironic.....sad.....mad.....funny..... and for sure hypocritical when people that claim to be an artist and claim art is freedom and that are and beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, but then criticize or shun another person's art because it doen't fit into a certain groove or what they call artistic flair. That type of judgement you would think would not come from an artist and instead from the facebook zombies or P&S family herd, but its actually them that are the most acceptable.

I found the picture good. I found it strange that the seat was colored and not what I would consider the focal point....but its your picture and if you like it then go with it. When my wife and I go out, I order beef and she orders salmon, is either one of us wrong....in the eyes of some yes, but to us no.


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## The_Traveler (Jul 2, 2011)

franco stacy said:


> I am new or at least infrequent on here and not much over a P&S, but I have had several years of art. But I always find it.......ironic.....sad.....mad.....funny..... and for sure hypocritical when people that claim to be an artist and claim art is freedom and that are and beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, but then criticize or shun another person's art because it doen't fit into a certain groove or what they call artistic flair. That type of judgement you would think would not come from an artist and instead from the facebook zombies or P&S family herd, but its actually them that are the most acceptable.
> 
> I found the picture good. I found it strange that the seat was colored and not what I would consider the focal point....but its your picture and if you like it then go with it. When my wife and I go out, I order beef and she orders salmon, is either one of us wrong....in the eyes of some yes, but to us no.



Anything can be good, in one's own eyes, because of emotional ties unrelated to the artistic contest, some specific taste or, in the very minutest of instances, an actual new direction in art. 

There are certain standards that people accept as verities and these verities change slowly, perhaps as people become enlightened or as more truths exert themselves. 

When you put up a picture here, it is judged by both the standards we adhere to and by certain common sense issues that are more physiologically driven. 

In a bw field, the viewers' eyes are drawn to color, just as in an out-of-focus field they are drawn to focus. Why would one make something color and thus draw they eye when it is not the point of the picture?  Until the photographer can make some sense out of that issue, I will continue to think that, for most situations and circumstances, selective color is stupid, trite and tasteless. Stupid because it makes no sense in itself, trite because every newbie who learns how does it and thinks they've developed a new art form and tasteless because it invariably makes any picture in which it is used, less than before.


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## Kerbouchard (Jul 2, 2011)

Thanks Traveler, you just convinced me how I plan on doing my boss's album cover...oh, yeah, selective color, here we come.  The ironic part is I am serious.  It will be absolutely perfect for the band's vibe and the title of their album.


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## The_Traveler (Jul 2, 2011)

My argument isn't to say that any specific issue is always wrong.
If you know how and why and it's a success, do it.
999/1000 that are shown here aren't - except of course in the eye of the beholder.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Jul 2, 2011)

franco stacy said:


> I found it strange that the seat was colored and not what I would consider the focal point.


Thank you for negating your own point.


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## gsgary (Jul 2, 2011)

Sugarbug2 said:


> Gary: would it have been so hard to say it was out of focus in the first place?!   that probably wouldn't made this thread about 1/3 the length lol! Us here in the south view 'what do you guys think' as c&c, sorry I guess I will be more clear as to what I want next time! Hheehe anyway, my next photo will hopefully be better...I wasn't even using my good camera then, it was awhile back!
> 
> Everybody have an awesome and safe 4th...thank a soldier!!



I'm sorry but selective colouring is one of my biggest hates 99% look very tacky


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## gsgary (Jul 2, 2011)

Derrel said:


> Raian-san said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm soft on the outside


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## Derrel (Jul 2, 2011)

You look like what we call a "badass" here in the US, gary!!! (aka, one mean, tough, no-nonsense sonofabitch!).


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## gsgary (Jul 2, 2011)

Derrel said:


> You look like what we call a "badass" here in the US, gary!!! (aka, one mean, tough, no-nonsense sonofabitch!).



No i never cause trouble but if trouble comes looking i sort it out


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## gsgary (Jul 2, 2011)

Here's one of my photography friends posted on a forum


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## Kerbouchard (Jul 2, 2011)

gsgary said:


> Here's one of my photography friends posted on a forum


The football is shaped weird...maybe lens distortion?


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## gsgary (Jul 2, 2011)

Kerbouchard said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> > Here's one of my photography friends posted on a forum
> ...




You don't get lens distortion with a 300mmF2.8L


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## johnh2005 (Jul 2, 2011)

gsgary said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> > Raian-san said:
> ...



I had no idea you were from the UK.  I look at this picture and I said, "Damn he looks like he is from the UK!"  :lmao:


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## TwoTwoLeft (Jul 2, 2011)

Just give it some time. You'll figure out who REALLY know what they're talking about, who the "weekend pros" are, and who's just kissing your ass because of your avatar pic...  It's tough getting a fair critique if you're ridiculously good looking. Yet, I manage to struggle through it & fight the good fight every day...


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## Lazy Photographer (Jul 2, 2011)

I think the coloured seat sort of draws one's attention away from the baby's face, which is the opposite effect you'd want. I just posted a black & white with a colour element. Have a look. 
Cute shot, though.


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## gsgary (Jul 2, 2011)

johnh2005 said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> > Derrel said:
> ...




Well if you look below my name it says Chesterfield UK


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## johnh2005 (Jul 2, 2011)

Yeah, that is how I figured it out.  That and I looked up "Guy from the UK" in the dictionary and it was that exact pic.


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## mishele (Jul 2, 2011)

gsgary said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> > Raian-san said:
> ...



How you doin?!!


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## franco stacy (Jul 2, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> franco stacy said:
> 
> 
> > I found it strange that the seat was colored and not what I would consider the focal point.
> ...



It didn't negate my point, but made my point. Opinion is grey matter, right and wrong is black and white and if its not, then grey matter again. There is a difference between liking it and not liking it and saying its wrong for an artist to do and will be shunned. As in all things, how good it is depends on the goals and objectives of that photo. Wasit for Enjoyment, archiving a moment in time, sales, journalism, creativity, society acceptance, shock and awe, popularity, resume catcher, that will determine how effective it is.  Some gave me the impression that it was flat out wrong or somehow cheapening the art and to me they are blending in their taste with being right. Like taking a pornographic photo of a 10 year old, that is wrong. Coloring images in a BW is only a matter of opinion. Some artist look to pay bills and others look to express themselves and some want both, to me neither one is right or wrong.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Jul 2, 2011)

It sounds to me like we shouldn't bother teaching anything about art, because in the end, if the doer likes it, that's all that matters. 
 Is that how I should start responding to c&c threads? "If you like it, that's all that matters." 

Or is better to teach the theories and mechanics behind visual organization, and let the future artist make choices out of understanding rather than ignorance? 

I will argue again, that if you respond to a noob doing selective color that, as long as they like it...YOU ARE NOT TEACHING THEM ANYTHING.


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## Edsport (Jul 3, 2011)

As soon as i saw the first post with the selective coloring i thought there would be a bashing with immature comments. I wasn't wrong...


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## The_Traveler (Jul 3, 2011)

Edsport said:


> As soon as i saw the first post with the selective coloring i thought there would be a bashing with immature comments. I wasn't wrong...



And of course yours is one of them, just dropping in to show how much better you are than all the rest of us.


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## JeffieLove (Jul 3, 2011)

I don't think this thread is very useful anymore and I'm pretty sure it would be safe to lock it... Mods???


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## Bitter Jeweler (Jul 3, 2011)

JeffieLove said:


> I don't think this thread is very useful anymore and I'm pretty sure it would be safe to lock it... Mods???



Excuse me. There is valuable discussion going on. Would you care to contribute?


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## franco stacy (Jul 4, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> It sounds to me like we shouldn't bother teaching anything about art, because in the end, if the doer likes it, that's all that matters.
> Is that how I should start responding to c&c threads? "If you like it, that's all that matters."
> 
> Or is better to teach the theories and mechanics behind visual organization, and let the future artist make choices out of understanding rather than ignorance?
> ...



Yes, like a flow chart on how to be spontaneous. If you ask about art, that is one thing and the answer will be worthless if you want a right and wrong answer. You ask about the mechanics of selective color and the technique and you provide a detailed description and perhaps society's fall out, then thats another viewpoint that is more objective. Answering artistic questions is like asking what't the prettiest flower, most beautiful woman, tastiest food or what is beauty, peace, happiness or satisfaction. 

What do you tell a kid in art class that does a portrait in crayon....F because you didn't use a standard art tool, you used a childs play thing? You can teach art history and the lives of artists and the different styles and era's, but you can't run an assembly line in what is art and what is not. If you do its like a flow chart on how to be spontaneous.


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## The_Traveler (Jul 4, 2011)

franco stacy said:


> Yes, like a flow chart on how to be spontaneous. If you ask about art, that is one thing and the answer will be worthless if you want a right and wrong answer. You ask about the mechanics of selective color and the technique and you provide a detailed description and perhaps society's fall out, then thats another viewpoint that is more objective. Answering artistic questions is like asking what't the prettiest flower, most beautiful woman, tastiest food or what is beauty, peace, happiness or satisfaction.
> 
> What do you tell a kid in art class that does a portrait in crayon....F because you didn't use a standard art tool, you used a childs play thing? You can teach art history and the lives of artists and the different styles and era's, but you can't run an assembly line in what is art and what is not. If you do its like a flow chart on how to be spontaneous.



Pardon me for saying this, but what a colossal load of codswallop.  
No one is trying to suppress art. 
What people are saying is that a specific technique, which newbies seen to find as attractive as toddlers do their bowel movements, is generally ineffective and even ugly unless done by reasonably skilled and artistically insightful people.  Technology has made it easy, but, as newbies do it, it is rarely done well just because their artistic vision is relatively primitive. Similarly to closeup portraits done with extreme wide angle. They may look interesting because they are unusual but but they are rare because they are, in general, ineffective in any artistic sense.

Only with some skill and taste do these become actually art rather than just grotesqueries.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Jul 4, 2011)

franco stacy said:


> Bitter Jeweler said:
> 
> 
> > It sounds to me like we shouldn't bother teaching anything about art, because in the end, if the doer likes it, that's all that matters.
> ...


Your argument is just all over the place. I NEVER said art is about right and wrong. It is about learning the FOUNDATIONS, which are GUIDES. Yes you do need to apply the context of the artists intent. On this forum the context is overwhelmingly people who buy cameras, with no experience in the many aspects of the world of art, who have decided to make a business out of portraiture. When giving crtitque, people here are, in general, sensitive to that fact. If the OP was doing a series of images, and the contextual statement was to bring attention to something we rarely appreciate, and titled the series "Thank A Chair", and then had 12 images of people sitting in selectively colored chairs...then the posted image works. It has an intent, context, and a message. It does exactly what selective coloring is effective at. That's bringing attention to the subject. I don't know how you can argue that it doesn't. You even said so in your "critique".

Your next paragraph is just out of the ballpark. Nobody is arguing about the medium used. A crayon is a standard tool. You are viewing it as a childs play thing, and passing judgement yourself. You also just applied a stereotype. That's not what we are talking about here. *We are talking about the foundations of visual organization and composition.* These concepts have been around, AND USED for eons, and their existance has not stiffled creativity *ONE BIT*. We have the entire history of art to back that up.

We are also not talking about children here. We are talking about adults, who often are trying to become good at a craft. Good enough to sell their work and become successful, and compete against their more knowledgable peers. They come here to get better at what they do. They come here because they KNOW they are not measuring up to successful photographers. How do you help them? You teach them the *FOUNDATIONS. *You give them a guide to use to expand upon. The truely talented who gain a complete understanding, can then go on to challenge what is acceptable. Beginners cannot. They simply do not know what they are doing. They do not have an understanding of the visual language to back up what they have done.

Your response "as long as you like it" is not helpful, and I will say it as many times as I need, DOES NOT TEACH THEM ANYTHING. It does NOTHING to help the artist improve. 
All it does is allow them to continue walking around in the dark, trying things willy nilly, with absolutely no understanding of what they are doing. Teaching fundamentals does NOT hamper creativity. It does the opposite. It allows the artist to further push the boundries without REINVENTING THE WHEEL.

It's like baking bread. You can take years of figuring out the science behind the ingredients, and lots of trial and error. Or you can start with a recipe, and start tweaking it from there. The recipe does not hamper your creativity! It gives you a successful starting place to push the boundaries, and create magnificient artisan breads. As you tweak that recipe, you start to understand how things work successfully, without having to first invent bread.


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## gsgary (Jul 4, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> franco stacy said:
> 
> 
> > Bitter Jeweler said:
> ...




What's the veiw like from your soapbox


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## Derrel (Jul 4, 2011)

If I could "Like" Bitter Jeweler's post 25 times, I would. I really,really wish that a few of the more 'advanced' shooters on TPF who are trying to get businesses going would read, and even print out his comments and thus get it through their head that there actually EXISTS a series of concepts and principles that make up visual organization and composition, and that knowing, understanding, and utilizing those concepts would make their photography much better, and more sought-after among better-educated, more-monied, more-discerning clients.


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## ancha930 (Jul 4, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> franco stacy said:
> 
> 
> > Bitter Jeweler said:
> ...



Can I just say, Bitter Jeweler, that I LOVE this? I, admittedly, totally suck at the whole technical aspect of photography because I haven't taken the time to sit down and immerse myself in it. I've read some of your posts and while you may come off as harsh, it's because you know what you're talking about and say things that people may not want to hear because you're giving honest feedback. If you don't mind, I may just stalk your posts around the forums to see what I can learn. 

And I'm done with the ass kissing, sorry.


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## subscuck (Jul 4, 2011)

Those who believe in "as long as you like it" are people with cameras.

Those who understand the eye-brain connection and human perception, and exploit those things for visual impact, are photographers.

I'm somewhere in the middle. However, I bake absolutely bad-ass Artisanal breads.


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## Edsport (Jul 4, 2011)

ancha930 said:


> Bitter Jeweler said:
> 
> 
> > franco stacy said:
> ...


What is it you want to learn? The technical aspect of photography or to be harsh?


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## ancha930 (Jul 4, 2011)

Edsport said:
			
		

> What is it you want to learn? The technical aspect of photography or to be harsh?



The technical aspect of photography. I've already mastered the art of being harsh.


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## subscuck (Jul 4, 2011)

ancha930 said:


> Edsport said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well played. (golf clap)


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## Josh66 (Jul 4, 2011)

Well, congrats on learning how to do it.  I don't personally like selective coloring, but I would say you have the technique more or less down.  (I'm talking about actually doing it, not necessarily picking what to do it to.)

Now that you have learned that, you can concentrate on other things.  :lmao:


edit
Damn ... I only noticed the first page when I typed this.  

Oh well.


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