# Trey Ratcliff's HDR course



## vipgraphx

Just finished up with Trey Ratcliff's ( stuckincustoms.com)  downloadable HDR course. I thought I would take the time to comment on what I thought about it. I was really hoping to learn more about tricks he has picked up over the years. 

So I thought this was a really great course for someone who is starting out in HDR. It is 11 hours of video along with homework and sample images to use of his own work. I think I picked up a few new techniques especially with haloing and how to fix those tuffff images. As far as his tricks either he does not do a lot or he was holding back in his videos. I learned a little better workflow on how to organize my files so they are easier to access. I have never had any problems with that but I can see it helping me.

I already have been doing what he is doing as far as how he is processing his images. I have about 3 methods I use and one of them is very similar to his. He converts his images to jpegs before he hits photomatix and this is were I see some issues. I have had photos that imported jpegs into photomatix and created a banding in the sky where as the tiff. does not. He also outputs to jpeg and brings all his jpeg exposures into photoshop to process. Once again I have had great results using 16 bit TIFFs. Slower but more control over lights and colors.

All in all it was not a bad course and I learned some new things. I spent $100 and I think for the beginner HDR photographer it would be well worth the money. Plus you get to be part of an HDR forum for strictly HDR photos. This is worth it the money because you are in a forum where everyone loves HDR and if you are lucky you can find ways to get a special invite to HDR Spotting - Gallery of HDR Photos and Community of HDR Photographers

So just thought anyone who is browsing this forum would like to know about this if they do not already know and should check it out. I will say that with all the info on the internet and youtube you can  defiantly find plenty of help to better yourself in HDR, but if you do not want to search and search this is a great way to get everything in one package.

One thing I liked is his philosophy about photography but, I wont discuss that you can find out for yourself.

check out this site. HDR Spotting - Gallery of HDR Photos and Community of HDR Photographers it is filled with many many great HDR images.


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## myshkin

personally I think it's a waste of money. HDR is not that complicated and there is a ton of info on the internet. The best way is to play with the program itself and learn what works for you.

Also HDR is just a processing technique, and what is lacking most among many HDR boards is actually knowing how to visualize and capture a good photo.


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## Sw1tchFX

^^Boom.

Usually, the problem with HDR is that it's HDR, and is about as appropriate as comic sans or autotune.


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## vipgraphx

Eehh I don't think it was a waist of money. Something learned something gained.But to each his own. You know whats a big waist of money , Fast food but I bet you still eat it., it's all relative.


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## o hey tyler

Sw1tchFX said:


> ^^Boom.
> 
> Usually, the problem with HDR is that it's HDR, and is about as appropriate as comic sans or autotune.



I happen to think that Comic Sans is quite useful, and very good at depicting sarcasm when posting on an internet forum. Especially in a large typeface such as the one I am using. See? You can feel the sarcasm.


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## Dominantly

Not all HDR is bad HDR. There should be sub-categories of it to prevent everyone from lumping it into the overcooked one.

An example of HDR I'm quite fond of is found in Joel Grimes composite work.


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## myshkin

I don't think anyone here is saying all HDR is bad or overcooked. I just think people get so sucked into HDR processing that they forget the bigger picture which is photography. To me HDR is like a filter or a lens. Its a tool to get the shot I want. processing is just a small part of the equation, and many forget or never learn composition and light. I think the HDR boards are some of the worst offenders, with tons of random photos that have been applied with HDR, but have no real impact as a photo


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## vipgraphx

HDR, Black and White, Color, Strobing, Lighting, Portraits, Landscapes, Macro, etc... are all categories of photography. Some people like all some people like 2-3 and some people only like 1. I do not know why so many people here talk it down so much. Many of the folks who frequent the HDR forums do not go making ill comments about other avenues of photography why? Because IMO they are more open to whats outside the box and not forced to stay in their tiny world/bubble. I think there is many things about photography that I have not even began to experiment with and give props to those that have learn to use off camera process. I have seen some incredible photos in black and white and so on. My eyes are open to the world and realize that times are changing and new processes are invented all the time. I am not close minded and really wish that all the photo police hear on the boards could step out there bubble and let it me without such ignorant comments.

This thread was not meant to start a debate about HDR good or bad or has no place in this world. Its just to inform new comers to the HDR portion of the forum that there is a nice package that can really help them out if they do not want to take the time to search for all the info out there. It also leads to a few sites that are only about HDR where you can actually get positive feedback and information with out being internet bullied or bashed about what they like to do. THUS why I did not post in the general forum.

HDR is such a small area of photography and still relatively new that I think those die hard-ers make it seem like its taking over their world. IF so change with the times of become more unique with your skill.


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## myshkin

You miss the point completely. No one said HDR is bad, if you look at my link half of it is HDR. I really enjoy having the option of HDR for the type of photography I do. 

After 11 hours and $100 you didn't take many tips away from the course, and that's because HDR is not complicated and you already know everything you need to know to apply it. You likely will constantly evolve how you apply it as most of us do, depending on how your tastes change, but the basics are really all there is to it. Likely anything you desire beyond the basics will be better found in general photography courses or photoshop courses. Like manually blending exposures with layers or composition matters.

How trey fills 11 hours with HDR talk is amazing he should win an award for that. I bet trey spends no more then 1 minute in his preferred HDR software. Most people once they find the settings that give them their desired look will spend about 30 secs in photomatix. 
After that you go into regular PP and this is better covered in a photoshop or lightroom course or tutorial.


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## vipgraphx

I viewed your link and you have a lot of great photos. They looked hdr to me  but I did not want to question your use. I try to keep an open ear to what is being said in his course. I took many things away besides just processing. Thats why I said to me its not a waist of money. I get to chat with other HDR folks in the clubhouse and get different responses to what I would get here. I think the folks that are successful using HDR to have the composition down can't assume all but from looking at the photos in the link I provided I really like many of them. 
I do not spend much time in photomatix myself and I would not think others either. I agree that the majority time is spent in photoshop. I am not sure if you took his course or not but keep in mind that this thread is to let folks know about it who are NEW to HDR. Its valuable info if you allow yourself to learn. Someone who is seasoned maybe not. 


As far as said HDR = bad

read Sw1tchFX *"Usually, the problem with HDR is that it's HDR, and is about as appropriate as comic sans or autotune."
*

What do you read out of this? Thats the problem is people close their minds to other things outside of their comfort zone or what they are doing. Folks just need to keep it positive because whether its HDR or not we all enjoy a great photo. I think we all can agree on that and I think thats why we are all here......


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## o hey tyler

vipgraphx said:


> What do you read out of this? Thats the problem is people close their minds to other things outside of their comfort zone or what they are doing. Folks just need to keep it positive because whether its HDR or not we all enjoy a great photo. I think we all can agree on that and I think thats why we are all here......



While I disagree that HDR is like autotune and equated to selective coloring... I do however feel that not EVERY PHOTO needs to be an HDR photo. I honestly feel like HDR hurts a lot of your compositions Vipgraphx... That's why I don't comment on your threads much. 

I think if you spent some time behind the camera not doing HDRs and seeing where deep tonal ranges work in photographs would be very beneficial. It would make you look at HDR in a different way. It would also help you focus on your composition which you yourself have admitted to be lacking in. 

The main problem that I see with your HDRs is that the subject you choose is to busy in its nature, or has to busy of a background, and the HDR accentuates that. You could have some decent comps, if you let the light fade off naturally. It all comes with "seeing" an HDR photograph, but knowing that most of the time it won't work... Unless you're explicitly looking for it.


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## Dominantly

myshkin said:


> I don't think anyone here is saying all HDR is bad or overcooked. I just think people get so sucked into HDR processing that they forget the bigger picture which is photography. To me HDR is like a filter or a lens. Its a tool to get the shot I want. processing is just a small part of the equation, and many forget or never learn composition and light. I think the HDR boards are some of the worst offenders, with tons of random photos that have been applied with HDR, but have no real impact as a photo


 Interesting take on the first part of the thread.


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## vipgraphx

o hey tyler said:


> vipgraphx said:
> 
> 
> 
> What do you read out of this? Thats the problem is people close their minds to other things outside of their comfort zone or what they are doing. Folks just need to keep it positive because whether its HDR or not we all enjoy a great photo. I think we all can agree on that and I think thats why we are all here......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I disagree that HDR is like autotune and equated to selective coloring... I do however feel that not EVERY PHOTO needs to be an HDR photo. I honestly feel like HDR hurts a lot of your compositions Vipgraphx... That's why I don't comment on your threads much.
> 
> I think if you spent some time behind the camera not doing HDRs and seeing where deep tonal ranges work in photographs would be very beneficial. It would make you look at HDR in a different way. It would also help you focus on your composition which you yourself have admitted to be lacking in.
> 
> The main problem that I see with your HDRs is that the subject you choose is to busy in its nature, or has to busy of a background, and the HDR accentuates that. You could have some decent comps, if you let the light fade off naturally. It all comes with "seeing" an HDR photograph, but knowing that most of the time it won't work... Unless you're explicitly looking for it.
Click to expand...


It does not hurt to try new things so I may just do that and try taking some photos without using hdr. If that helps my composition then awesome. If it helps me see things better awesome. I am all for it. I am not sure if you remember but a long ways back I said that I live in Tucson and it was not easy finding things around. You took it like a cop out. I have been trying to take pictures every where I go to try to better develop myself. What you see in many of my pictures are just that trying to take as much pictures as I can. We often take for granite where we live and do not see value where we live. Well lets not assume everyone but I will start with saying me. Its hard for me to think of places to go shoot. When I have tried interesting places I have been kicked out and harassed by the police. People freak out when they see a camera and tripod and end up calling the law. Just the other day I was going out to takes some photos of a famous church on the indian reservation. I saw a an abandon burnt building and stopped in to try to get some pictures in. Within 5 min the indian police where on site and made me delete all my photos and said I could not take pictures on indian land without permission and could get arrested for criminal trespassing. I mean really a burnt abandon house...what I am saying is I am trying and trying really hard. You can look at things two ways.

1) this guy has a drive to succeed
2) this guy has no clue to what photography really is. ( I will strongly disagree as to me its int the eye of the beholder )

With no offense I am not into what you may be into and you have very strong ideas that you are on a better track than me as well as many others do. It may be true but it does not mean that I do not enjoy doing this and have the drive to learn and develop. Many of you just assume this. I have used the crap out of this D7000 trying to learn and once again I wish I could get up and travel a bit to more interesting sites. I keep looking for better and better places to shoot. But with Being a father of 4 and running my printing and graphics business along with a full time soccer club soccer coach its hard to take a whole day and really explore what tucson as to offer.

If you wish not to give respond in my threads no worries I will not hold you accountable for my success or failure.

Once again another HDR thread taking a hit for no reason. I was trying to be a contributing member and put some good info out to those that could use it. I was not looking for a debate on my skills or whether or not HDR is useful or not. People find away to make it personal for some weird apparent reason. I must me the number one unliked member on this forum.:greenpbl:


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## janok

vipgraphx said:


> Just finished up with Trey Ratcliff's ( stuckincustoms.com)  downloadable HDR course. I thought I would take the time to comment on what I thought about it. I was really hoping to learn more about tricks he has picked up over the years.
> 
> So I thought this was a really great course for someone who is starting out in HDR. It is 11 hours of video along with homework and sample images to use of his own work. I think I picked up a few new techniques especially with haloing and how to fix those tuffff images. As far as his tricks either he does not do a lot or he was holding back in his videos. I learned a little better workflow on how to organize my files so they are easier to access. I have never had any problems with that but I can see it helping me.
> ......



I went to this course some time ago when I was new to HDR (which I still sort of am  and it was of great help to me, learning the thinking and the basic workflow.


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## Bynx

Vip, the ones who are disliked much more than you in this forum are those jerks who come in here telling us that this or that doesnt need to be an HDR image and they could do the same with  single shot. Whether they could or not isnt the point. The only thing that matters is how your image looks when its posted here. Composition is, to me, the placement of the subject and surrounding objects within the borders of the photo. This is not affected by whatever treatment is applied. A poor color composition wont be improved if its made into a B&W. Or a good composition wont be made bad by it being an HDR. It might look terrible with wild colors, but the composition is set in stone once the photo is taken and/or cropped. I dont think watching any course on HDR is a waste of time. Perhaps a waste of money though. There are enough how to's available for free that paying a hundred bucks is just not necessary to learn how to use Photomatix. Using Photoshop properly is another story. While there is much available, there is much to learn, so any way you can get along with that is time and money well spent. Trey Ratcliffe has developed a workflow Im sure not by watching and paying for videos by others. Im betting Sparky's, myshikin's or even my workflow is every bit as good.


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## vipgraphx

Bynx- I hear you!! 

As far as work flow I have my own and developed that by my lonesome as you and others. This course is not just Photomatix infact a small percentage is photomatix. In the past I have had trouble with haloing I had to figure it out on my own. Sometimes I did a good job and sometimes I did a poor job. I looked online and did not see to much on this subject that made sense. Not that Trey is my idle or god or anything like that but he discussed a way to help prevent it that really really works and how to correct it in photoshop and that my friend was a great lesson. Also some of  the how to videos on line all though are great and thats where I learned a lot many of them left me confused at times.. not all but a handful. What you put in you put out and if you see it as a waist of money or not its all good. Remember that you are a seasoned HDR enthusiast and what is the number one question people have hear when they are new. What software to use, how to do it. I took the time to show a very great method I created to make a very realistic photo using HDR. Some folks pmd me with questions about it worked and some had trouble. I do not have the time that it takes to try to teach what I do and besides that all though I think my processing rocks honestly I am still very new to it and I know that there still is a road ahead in which to grow and learn. SO......this is a perfect course for  folks that want a complete package from start to finish. The problem with youtube videos there are a lot of people posting their methods of how to and there are many methods and they don't quite cover everything all in one. This course is good in that one person takes you from  start to finish. I am sure even you would pick something up that maybe your not seeing, maybe. $100 is nothing to sweat over. Along with that you get the hdr clubhouse forum where I know you would like and then the hdrspotting website that I had not clue about but its only an invite only site (just to post pictures) viewing is open to the public. But still I did not know about this site until now and I am sure you would enjoy that site as well. I have been invited and when I get the opportunity to receive invite codes I have you and a few others on my list.

Other than that its all relative like I said $100 is nothing to sweat and if you could learn 1 or even 2 new techniques that helped you grow to me its worth it. Since I have a family of 6 thats like two - three meals eating out when we don't need to. I wold not starve the family to do this but just making a point. We spend money all the time on things that do not better ourselves why not once in a while spend it on yourself to learn something new. IF you look at it with a closed eyes/doors than yeah waist of time and money but if you go into it with open eyes/doors you will learn a few things. 

With that said, great course for beginners that want a package course and actually folks there to help them out in the forum.


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## Bynx

One thing you have to share is where 6 people can have 2 or 3 meals for $100. I took my son out for supper last week. That cost $140. The dessert was good and we sat next to the mayor of our town, but I cant imagine feeding 6 twice for 100.


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## vipgraphx

Well that would not be expensive restaurants of course :er:. Subway, Mc Donalds , Pizza.....


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## bs0604

I am new to both photography & HDR and decided to sign on to Stuckincustoms 11 hr course and I am about 90% through the lessons.  What I did not realize as a newbie, and now painfully realize, is that Photomatix is the tip of the iceberg and Photoshop post processing (at which I am another newbie) is the rest.  I have CS4 and would like to upgrade to CS5 but don't know if my  and Topaz plug in & other plug ins will automatically load in to CS5 when I install it.  Anyone know the answer to this?
Back to Stuckincustoms.  80% of the 11 hour course is Trey's philosophical musings which is ok but isn't what I am paying for.  All in all the course is excellent for a newbie.  I learned the basics of layers, and layer masks and probably most importantly learned the importance of getting good at Photoshop.  I am considering finding a local tutor for one on one PS teaching.


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## DiskoJoe

trey does a good job with an intro to HDR but I know lots of people that have better tricks then he does and dont advertise overpriced software. One of my favorite photogs prefers to layer his shots manually as opposed to using a processing engine like photomatix or PS. His results are amazing but you have to be more of a PS wizard to follow his steps.


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## vipgraphx

post a link


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## ann

you will have to reload your plug ins they won't automatically load. They will work , but you h ave to do the loading in the new software.


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