# I want a mirror less camera!



## kathyt (Feb 23, 2014)

I am gong to be purchasing a mirror less camera soon. I have done my research, but I would like to have some input from photographers, experienced, who have used dSLR for some time now, who also use a mirror less system as well as a dSLR. I want it to be extremely advanced as far as options are concerned. I want to purchase a system that has QUALITY lenses already available. So basically I want to invest in one of the higher end models. I have a couple options in mind already, but I want your input first before I tell you what I have narrowed it down to. I don't really have a budget, except that the Leica M at $6950.00 is NOT in my budget!  Thanks for any and all input.


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## vipgraphx (Feb 23, 2014)

I will chime in and say that I really would recommend the A7/A7r. I have owned Nikon D50,D90,D7000,D700.  To me the D700 is SUPERB! I have tested the D7100,D610 and the Sony A7 and played with the Olympus OMD EM1. 

I Tested the A7 for about two weeks. After my testing I can honestly say that it is a very good camera with tons of features and very customizable as well. It makes shooting with it very fun and fast once you get used to it. At first it feels slow but once you start customizing settings you realize you can change just about everything within in seconds. One thing I would like to point out is that the shutter response does feel like it lags for some reason, I think its the sound that it makes. It makes it seem like your pictures are going to be blurry however, they are pretty much always super sharp. If you only test it out in the store you would may not like it as it takes time getting used to. Once your used to it you realize it was always the sound the shutter makes and not the performance or speed.

With that said is lens choice would be the biggest downfall for this camera. WIth the three that are out right now and the forth on its way for sale very soon that are actually FE mount lenses gives you little options BUT, with the sony A mount adapter you have many pro quality lenses your can purchase right now and start using along with other lenses with adapters.  Some of them you will lose some of those awesome features but you will not lose focus peaking and zoom to focus on any lens adapter combo but will have to shoot in manual. This makes it the most versatile camera right now and the IQ is great plus its a full frame. 

The only reason I took it back was because I wanted to test the D610 before I made my final decision. After testing out the D610 I new the A7 was a better camera all hands down feature to feature and price to price. But then I read there may be an A9 coming soon and I am TRYING to hold out to see what that may be&#8230;There are talk about maybe being a 54MP camera but thats not what interests me as much as a faster frame rate, faster auto focus, more focus point, dual card and more&#8230;.I hope its not 54mp as 24 is way more than enough for just about anyone&#8230;Hopefully we will find out soon so I can either go back and purchase the A7 or hold out for the A9&#8230;.time will tell.

I hope this helps you some. The A7 is truly a very very good camera. I would personally prefer this over the A7r as it has newer auto focus no second shutter sound (less chance to create motion blur) and has a few other features I find more useful than the A7r.

Cheers and good luck


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## brunerww (Feb 24, 2014)

Hi Kathy - I shot with SLRs and DSLRs for 36 years before I bought my first DSLM.  The last of the DSLRs is still on the shelf. So my advice is prejudiced towards cameras that "look like SLRs" - with central viewfinders and manual controls because that is how I grew up.

For full frame stills, I agree with vip - the A7/A7r is the best mirrorless camera short of a Leica.  To be frank, lens selection is an issue - but one of the fundamental advantages of mirrorless is how easy it is to use adapted lenses.  Although this camera is full frame, it is much smaller than a full frame DSLR.

For APS-C stills, I recommend the Fuji X-T1 for the sensor, manual controls and the Fuji lens system.  The Fuji lens situation is better than Sony FE, and is getting better. Again, adaptable to a wide range of classic manual glass.  It is about the same size as the A7/A7r.

If you don't mind a sensor smaller than APS-C - micro 4/3 has a very well developed lens ecosystem, with a plethora of choices from Sigma, Olympus, Panasonic and others.  For stills, I would seriously consider the Olympus OM-D E-M1 or the (rangefinder styled) Panasonic GX7 as the best still cameras in this class.  Although its sensor is smaller, the Olympus is larger and heavier than the Fuji.  The Panasonic is the smallest of the lot.

If weight is an issue, micro 4/3 lenses are generally smaller and lighter than APS-C - and they are certainly smaller and lighter than FF lenses.

It's expensive, but you can adapt your Canon lenses to micro 4/3 cameras with a $598 powered adapter that allows you to adjust lens aperture electronically (a much less expensive option would be a $32 unpowered adapter with a built-in manual aperture ring). 

If video is important to you - my recommendations would be different.  On the video side, the only mirrorless camera that comes close to what your 5D can do is the Panasonic GH3 (and the upcoming GH4).  I am a video shooter, so my cameras are all Panasonic GH.  These are very good still cameras - but they are absolutely fabulous video cameras.

Hope this is helpful!

Bill


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## jaomul (Feb 24, 2014)

Having bought an Olympus EPL5 as well as now owning a Nikon d7100 and previously a few Canon dslrs I can say that this cameta is impressive. I do not recommend this to you though. It is on the lower Tier of the Olympus ladder yet still has fantastic customisation ability. Digital Camera Mag gave this a high review stating that it's interface was poor. They did not spend enough time to figure out how to activate its direct control system (default turned off). 

I can only imagine the upper tier models with evf and even more direct control would have everything most would need. Olympus m4/3 are well worth a look


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## kathyt (Feb 24, 2014)

vipgraphx said:


> I will chime in and say that I really would recommend the A7/A7r. I have owned Nikon D50,D90,D7000,D700.  To me the D700 is SUPERB! I have tested the D7100,D610 and the Sony A7 and played with the Olympus OMD EM1.
> 
> I Tested the A7 for about two weeks. After my testing I can honestly say that it is a very good camera with tons of features and very customizable as well. It makes shooting with it very fun and fast once you get used to it. At first it feels slow but once you start customizing settings you realize you can change just about everything within in seconds. One thing I would like to point out is that the shutter response does feel like it lags for some reason, I think its the sound that it makes. It makes it seem like your pictures are going to be blurry however, they are pretty much always super sharp. If you only test it out in the store you would may not like it as it takes time getting used to. Once your used to it you realize it was always the sound the shutter makes and not the performance or speed.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your response. This is one of them on the list. I have definitely noticed the lag time after I push the shutter with the mirror less.


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## runnah (Feb 24, 2014)

The new Fuji looks pretty sweet. But the Sony also looks hawt.


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## kathyt (Feb 24, 2014)

brunerww said:


> Hi Kathy - I shot with SLRs and DSLRs for 36 years before I bought my first DSLM.  The last of the DSLRs is still on the shelf. So my advice is prejudiced towards cameras that "look like SLRs" - with central viewfinders and manual controls because that is how I grew up.
> 
> For full frame stills, I agree with vip - the A7/A7r is the best mirrorless camera short of a Leica.  To be frank, lens selection is an issue - but one of the fundamental advantages of mirrorless is how easy it is to use adapted lenses.  Although this camera is full frame, it is much smaller than a full frame DSLR.
> 
> ...


As I read all the specs of the Leica M, what does this have over anything else. Is is simply quality?


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## Dao (Feb 24, 2014)

I came across this article a week or so ago from my Flopboard app.

13 Professional Photographers Who Use Mirrorless Cameras | MirrorLessons - The Best Mirrorless Camera Reviews

From there, Fuji and Olympus are quite popular.


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## Gavjenks (Feb 24, 2014)

Would just like to point out that the whole "quality lenses" thing is not so terribly important since you can get great adapters from any mirrorless brand to any non mirrorless lens easily. So you can use youre entire nikon/canon/whatever lens stockpile (the exception of course being if you get a fullf rame mirrorless you can't use crop lenses)


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## brunerww (Feb 24, 2014)

kathyt said:


> As I read all the specs of the Leica M, what does this have over anything else. Is is simply quality?



This is a very good question.  In some ways, it's just branding and reputation - but there is some basis for the "Leica mystique" (and prices) that goes beyond specs.

It has historically been a reflection of the amount of touch labor, craftsmanship and quality control that goes into each camera and lens.

Here's in interview with their Director of Product Management that describes their philosophy with respect to lenses: http://www.humansinvent.com/#!/8687/pursuit-of-perfection-hand-crafting-a-leica-lens/

As for me, modern manufacturing processes and quality control at Canon, Nikon, Sony, Fuji, Olympus, Panasonic, etc. are good enough  - especially when the Leica brand has been diluted through its partnerships with Panasonic on lenses and co-branded point and shoot camera bodies 

Best,

Bill


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## bif (Mar 4, 2014)

Kathy, 

I support Bruner's recommendations.  I had the Canon 7D, 60D, T3i, and several lenses including 2 "L" series, 3 EF primes, and a couple of EF-S zooms.  Sold it all off when I saw the stunning sharpness and detail of the Panasonic GH2.  I now have a pair of Panasonic GH3s, an Olympus OMD E-M5, and a Lumix GX7 - all in micro four thirds format.  

I have given up NOTHING in the way of sharpness and detail, the collection of m4/3 lenses I've acquired tend to be mostly very sharp, the Olympus 9-18mm (18-36mm equiv) is the most incredibly compact rectilinear correct ultra wide I've seen, 3 of the primes are extremely compact, and it's amazing how small a bag I can get by with.

Like Bruner, my primary focus is "motion picture" so the GH3s are my main cameras, I picked up the OMD E-M5 primarily for it's 5 axis in body image stabilization.  This does an incredible job of smoothing out handheld shake and jitters but I'm also learning to really appreciate it on still work, too.  

The "jaw dropping" moment for me came when standing in the middle of a parking lot with nothing to brace on, trying to get a telephoto (300mm equiv) shot of the cross on top of a church's bell tower.  With all the "jitter" going on in the viewfinder I wondered how I would be able to tell when the AF "locked" focus (forget manual focus with that shaking), light pressure on the shutter button  (I apparently had the IS set to engage on half press of the shutter) and suddenly all the "shake" in the EVF stopped, as long as I held the pressure on the shutter button.

Olympus has that feature on their OMD E-M1 also, no one else has it that I'm aware of.  The Panasonic GX7 has it but it's only 2 axis stabilization and that does not function with video on that camera.


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## rexbobcat (Mar 5, 2014)

I was gonna recommend the Fuji X system, because they're great little cameras with good sensors, but I'm not sure they're as advanced as you're wanting in terms of available lenses and whatnot.

The lenses that are available though are fantastic and comparatively cheap ($400 23mm [35mm equiv.] f/1.4)


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## usayit (Mar 5, 2014)

kathyt said:


> As I read all the specs of the Leica M, what does this have over anything else. Is is simply quality?



Lenses are outstanding with each delivering their own subtle renderings that an satisfy varying of tastes .  The latest M240 brings to the table a modern incarnation of the M body that embraces both the past design and present technology.   I wouldn't recommend one unless you are familiar with what its like to shoot with a rangefinder and know all its limitations and advantages.   No AF which is the first things any potential buyer has to accept.  Lenses continue to drive upwards in cost.   All the lenses (even the budget ones) are very costly.  I have more invested in my Leica system than the cars in my driveway.  I wouldn't trade it in for anything.   Don't fall for the "mystique"... its a camera and lenses... there is NO Such Thing as Leica Fairy Dust.   

Fuji, Sony, Olympus and Panasonic in my opinion all have gone all into investing on the future of mirrorless cameras.   The two that stick out for me.... Sony A7/A7R and the Micro 4/3rds from Olympus Panasonic.     Sony for squeezing a FF excellent sensor into a small usable body.  Their lens selection is very limited but the results are impressive.  The Olympus and Panasonic micro 4/3rds system is the Ultimate Blend system and IMO the best compromises to give the best all around experience.  Full featured.  Lots of lenses at all sorts of budgets to choose from.  Lots of bodies in different shapes, sizes, and layouts to choose from.  The sensor are indeed smaller than APS and with that some compromises; DOF, high ISO, etc.  BUT the small sensor provides the ability to deliver excellent lenses in small compact packages.  The micro 4/3rds lenses are TINY.   When comparing micro 4/3rds to other systems, don't under estimate just how small and light some of the lenses are.  My Ona Bowery (about the size of the smallest shoulders from Domke) can fit two bodies and 3 prime lenses and feel totally comfortable.  THey are both smaller and lighter than my Leica M lenses.  No mirrorless has the range of lens selection of micro 4/3rds.  

So from my opinion, if size and packaging is important.  I'd seriously consider the micro 4/3rds system.  In particular, the Olympus E-M1 and the Panasonic GH3 (especially for video).   If size, E-PM# and GM1 are the two smallest of the bunch.   If you shoot primary video, the Black Magic camera is a major consideration.   If ultimate image quality is the key; I'd probably invest in the Sony A7R.  Be aware that the sony lenses will be larger (so are many APS lenses) due to larger image circle.  Even now, I'm still considering one for my Leica lenses but I'm on the fence with corner quality with adapted wide angle leica glass.

I went from Leica + Canon (1dmarkII, 5D, 24,50,85,135L, 300f4L, 100-400L, 70-200f/2.8ISL, 24-70L, 24-105L) to Leica system + Olympus OMD EM5 (12f/2, 25mm f/1.4, 45mm f/1.8, 100-300mm, 12-35 f/2,8, 35-100f/2.8, 9-18mm).   There is nothing in terms of enjoyment that could not be achieved with the micro 4/3rds for me.   The blend of performance and size are well worth a system that fits my lifestyle... from that perspective it is night and day.    My only disappointment in the system is the AF's ability to track.   Phase detect AF has improved vastly since when I first entered the system (G1 and E-PL1, my reviews are here if you search.  I still shoot with two E-PL1s) but its still no where close to the performance of the 1dMarkII's AF system.   If you shoot sports, I would steer clear of mirrorl-ess all together and stick with DSLRs.  For static subjects, the EM5 is just as quick and the newer cameras are suppose to be an improvement.  A minor disappointment is also the flash TTL system; it too is not as featured or refined as either Canon nor Nikon.  For me, I use a bunch of X-sync manual flashes so it wasn't a show stopper.   I do carry an Olympus FL600R because its very small for what it can do... same reason why I use it with my Leica too.

My Canon system was sold with no regrets.


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## baturn (Mar 5, 2014)

Bed Bath and Beyond have all  kinds of mirrors less cameras. just sayin'.


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