# Nikon vs. Sony vs. Canon.



## Necrossis (Sep 6, 2010)

Hello.

I just need some advice - I'm planning on buying a new DSLR soon, but I'm really confused... At the moment I have Sony a200 - it's okay, but it's pretty old and also damaged and since I'm taking photography pretty serious, I need a better camera.

So I was wondering - which camera to buy? At first I wanted to buy Nikon D90, but changed my mind. Since I'm a Sony user, I wanted to buy once again a Sony DSLR (I was thinking about a380y or a350x, maybe even a550y). But... 

...most of the people I know use Canon - so I'd maybe even buy a 550D. Than again, the new Nikon 3100 doesn't seem bad also.



So, what do you think? 3100, 550D, A380Y, A350X or A550Y?


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## Markw (Sep 6, 2010)

How much do you have invested in terms of lenses, sony gear, etc?  How much are you looking to spend?  What type of photos do you like to shoot?  All of this is what we need to know to help you decide.  Just so you know, this will probably end up in a debate with alot of off-topic flaming.  Other than that..welcome to the forum!  We're good people.

Mark


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## usayit (Sep 6, 2010)

^^ his Q's ^^

what type of research information have you already done?
Which of the cameras initially sparked your attention?  why?  (video?, etc.)

This is such an open question among brands comparisons that its bound to turn into a flame war.


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## Vinny (Sep 6, 2010)

My brother in law bought the Sony full frame since he had lenses from a previous camera. I would say stick with Sony if you have a lot invested in Sony stuff as Markw said. It really doesn't matter what others use or say it comes down to the individual's needs; give any camera to a good photographer and good photos will come out!


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## Necrossis (Sep 6, 2010)

Thank you very much, I'm sure I'll enjoy it here. 

Anyhow, I spent nothing, no additional lenses or anything. I always thought I'm going to buy a Canon/Nikon, so it seemed pointless. I was also really young back then and wasn't sure if photography was you know... the real thing?
Anyhow, I mostly shot "macro" and with my current lens (18-70) I also crop my pictures a lot, just to get as close as possible without massivly ruining the quality of the picture... yes, I'm also planning on buying a macro lens, but first comes the camera. 

Actually, I'm hating the video option that most of the mentioned cameras have (if not even all of them?) just because it's really pointless - for myself (my dad has a video camera if I feel like I have to urgently video something...).

I'm willing to spend about 900&#8364; (camera + lens).

Well I mostly did research on the Canon 550D (reviews and stuff) and unfortunately, for all the other cameras I only read the basic descriptions.

I'd prefer buying Canon 550D, just because most of the people I know have Canons and most of them are totaly into borrowing lenses and stuff... (but of course, I'd freely take any of the other cameras).

Honestly, I don't know much about cameras, about their atributes, so that's also why I hoped you'll be able to help me.  I'm just trying to get the best for the money I'm willing to spend.


Thank you very much for all of your help, I really appreciate it.


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## Markw (Sep 6, 2010)

If you think that camera is good for you, then get it.  I honestly dont know much about Canon as I shoot Nikon only, and own a D90.  As far as video pertains, I would agree that it is not needed.  However, it is nice to have on those spur of the moment things when you _do_ want it.  But by no means a necessity.  If youre wanting Canon, I can offer no advice.  I will say that if you go Nikon, the D90 is a great camera to start and learn with.  The replacement for the D90, the D7000 will be released within the month and is expected to be great.  If you decide Nikon, I will help then.  I can't really sway you my way unless I knew more about the other brands, which I do not.  If you can get a hold of a member on here named Derrel, he is a very, _very_ knowledgeable person and is generally more than welcome to help.  He shoots Canon _and_ Nikon, so he could help you decide. GL. :thumbsup:

Mark


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## Necrossis (Sep 6, 2010)

Markw said:


> If you think that camera is good for you, then get it.  I honestly dont know much about Canon as I shoot Nikon only, and own a D90.  As far as video pertains, I would agree that it is not needed.  However, it is nice to have on those spur of the moment things when you _do_ want it.  But by no means a necessity.  If youre wanting Canon, I can offer no advice.  I will say that if you go Nikon, the D90 is a great camera to start and learn with.  The replacement for the D90, the D7000 will be released within the month and is expected to be great.  If you decide Nikon, I will help then.  I can't really sway you my way unless I knew more about the other brands, which I do not.  If you can get a hold of a member on here named Derrel, he is a very, _very_ knowledgeable person and is generally more than welcome to help.  He shoots Canon _and_ Nikon, so he could help you decide. GL. :thumbsup:
> 
> Mark



Hmmm, I'm not sure, but if I'm not mistaken (atleast I heard so...) they'll be removing D90 from the shops sometime soon now? I'm really, really not sure if it's the right information through. :O

Well I'm willing to wait until of the end of the year or even more, I'm not in a hurry really, so I still have a lot of time to choose.  And thanks, once again.


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## Markw (Sep 6, 2010)

I know they started offering to buy back your D90 in some other countries, but as for pulling it from the shelves, Im not too sure.  I suppose they could.  Either way, if you dont get one new, you could always get a used copy, or a refurb.  Im sure someone else that can help you choose further will chime in shortly.  Sorry I couldnt be of much help.

Mark


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## Markw (Sep 6, 2010)

The specs for the D7000 are here: http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...3100-has-been-released-d90-replacement-2.html

Mark


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## cfusionpm (Sep 6, 2010)

:thumbup:





Markw said:


> If you can get a hold of a member on here named Derrel, he is a very, _very_ knowledgeable person and is generally more than welcome to help. He shoots Canon _and_ Nikon, so he could help you decide. GL. :thumbsup:


 
He shoots some ho-hum old Canons and does nothing but complain about Canon, especially in regards to their bodies. So, just a head's up to the OP for getting advice from him: take his words about Canon with a grain of salt. He has a wealth of knowledge about film cameras, developing, photographic theory, lenses and optics, but his experience with DSLRs often boils down to reading a lot of things on the internet about them rather than owning them or using them for more than a single short shoot; if even that.

As far as I can gather from my conversations with him, the only reason he shoots Canon was because they offered an affordable full frame body (or any full frame body for that matter) long before Nikon. It baffles me why he doesn't just buy a D700 and be a happy man. :thumbup:

Back on topic, if "most of the people you know" shoot Canon, and any of these people have nice lenses to let you borrow, perhaps Canon would be a good path to go down. It really doesnt matter which; both take great shots and both have excellent body and lens linups. They also both have vastly different menu systems and exterior erganomics, as well as minor differences in features. Go to a store and play with them in your hands and see which is more comfortable. An entry level camera from either Nikon or Canon (like D3100 or 550D) would likely be more than enough.


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## Derrel (Sep 6, 2010)

cfusionpm said:


> :thumbup:
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> ...



Total B.S. and lies about me from my little hater, cfconfusion...

I have 37 years of experience in photography and cfconfusion is what?? 28 years old or something like that....he's yet another Canon fan who HATES to hear objective comments, numerical analysis, actual test results, etc,etc if there is any type of information even slightly not in favor of his beloved Canon 50D or 7D models....which are I suspect, the only cameras he's ever owned...

Kind of funny...a newbie who has been shooting for something like two years says I have little experience! My frame counts on most of my d-slr bodies range into the tens of thousands per year.

And to the OP..yeah....follow Matty's advice, and mooch off of your friends and borrow their Canon lenses...they'll love you for it.


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## Neil S. (Sep 6, 2010)

I am not going to touch the Nikon vs. Canon aspect of this, because its a can of worms...

I will say that Sony isnt up to the level of Nikon or Canon in my opinion. They simply dont have as good or as diverse of a system compared to the other two.

Remember that you are being locked into a photographic system when buying a body.

What I mean by this is that for the most part you will be forced to buy that companies lenses, flashes, accesories, etc.

You can always buy 3rd party lenses, but you would be unable to buy a Nikon lens for a Canon for example though. I have heard that there are adapters, but I believe it makes the lens manual focus only. This is far from ideal.

This is something to keep in mind when deciding which body to buy, if you arent already invested in a system.

My advice is research the entire companies lens/body lineups, and read reviews. Look into the future and see what lenses you would like to buy down the road. This will help you to decide which system to pick.

All that being said, Canon rocks! :mrgreen:

Hope this helps.


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## cfusionpm (Sep 7, 2010)

Derrel said:


> My frame counts on most of my d-slr bodies range into the tens of thousands per year.


Yep, and how many of those were not on a generation-old 5D, four-generation-old 20D, four-generation-old Rebel, six-year-old D70, or six-year-old D2X? (which was my point about experience with newer bodies like say the 7D, which you mention only a single short session with, or the 50D which you love to quote dpreview about) Feel free to correct me, I'm OK with admitting when I'm wrong on something. :thumbup:

By the way Derrel, you never directly answered why you shoot with Canons. There has to be _some_ reason, right?


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## skieur (Sep 7, 2010)

Canon tends to have slightly better sharpness than Nikon but that comes with slightly more picture noise than Nikon...moreso on some models than others.  Sony has faster autofocus than both Canon and Nikon.

The new Sony A55 is a smaller than usual DSLR with a new mirror system which takes the standard Sony or Minolta lenses.  It also does video with autofocus which is not usual for many DSLRs and panoramas done totally in camera. 

skieur


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## Overread (Sep 7, 2010)

Forget all this camera body nonsense (seriously they just love a good flame war they do :lmao. This has caught my eye in your comments.



Necrossis said:


> Anyhow, I mostly shot "macro" and with my current lens (18-70) I also crop my pictures a lot, just to get as close as possible without massivly ruining the quality of the picture... yes, I'm also planning on buying a macro lens, but first comes the camera.



When it comes to choosing the right camera system its not all about bodies - infact because they upgrade and fall out of use so fast in comparison to lenses the bodies are of secondary concern mostly - its the lenses you want to look to. Canon and Nikon have very diverse ranges (both high and low cost options) whilst some companies like sony have a good pro range, but can sometimes lack in cheaper options in some areas - and vis versa. (edit forgot that sony took the Minolta lenses which greatly increases the lens market for them! )

Anyway since you say you shoot a lot of macro already I'm going to say go for Canon - not because their macro lenses are any better than Nikons, but because of the chance that you might get into high magnification macro work and for there canon has one unique lens - the MPE 65mm macro - its specailist and tricky to use, but a very good high magnifiaction lens. 

I don't recomend that you just jump right in aiming at this lens and I would say get a 100mm macro (the original or the new L version) a Tamron 90mm macro, Sigma 105mm, 150mm etc.. (they vary by budget and features and its a slightly different discussion; but are all optically sound and sharp). And then play around and move toward higher magnifiaction before jumping for a tricky and expensive lens that you might not like. 

So you've got friends you can shoot with who like canon - you already like the canon body from looking at it and you like macro - time to go Canon :mrgreen:


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## ajkramer87 (Sep 7, 2010)

Overread said:


> Forget all this camera body nonsense (seriously they just love a good flame war they do :lmao. This has caught my eye in your comments.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I have to agree with overread about the macro. I really wish I had gone with canon just for that mpe65. But at the time I didnt know Id really like macro. But Im still in love with my d90. Its better to look at the lens setup of each brand. The modern dslr bodys are all going to give you good results.


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## Derrel (Sep 7, 2010)

Look for a body that has a good VIEWFINDER. Seriously. Compare the quality of the viewfinder image...its clarity,its ease of viewing, and its eye relief if you wear eyeglasses. The ability to look through the camera and actually SEE what is going on is in my experience, a key factor in how well one can actually shoot a particular camera. Some cameras have vastly better viewfinders than other cameras. Usually, viewfinder quality goes hand in hand with price and position within a manufacturer's product lineup. "Some" manufacturers seem to produce better viewfinders than "other" manufacturers, despite varying price points.

Pentamirror systems are virtually always inferior to pentaprism systems. Cameras that have oversized mirrors also work better with very long focal length lenses, like 500 and 600mm lenses, which can be important if you plan on using one of today's 50-500, 200-500,or other long focal length lenses. (The problem one can encounter with a regular-sized mirror is called mirror cut-off,and is a problem with quite a number of low-end cameras with long focal length lenses.)


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## MrLogic (Sep 7, 2010)

ajkramer87 said:


> I have to agree with overread about the macro. I really wish I had gone with canon just for that mpe65.



You can still go with the MP-E 65 and a used Canon "Rebel" body*... and keep the Nikon for now. Most experienced macro shooters who use the MP-E 65 also use (a) 1:1 macro lens(es) like the Sigma 105.


Older "Rebel" bodies can be had for dirt cheap and have sensors that are certainly good enough. IMO


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## flea77 (Sep 7, 2010)

I am going to have to be the odd man out and disagree with everyone 

For me, the primary concern is not body features (they change too rapidly), lenses (all of the big boys have enough lenses you can do anything you want anyway) or experience (Sony has very little compared to Nikon or Canon). What matters to me is how well the camera and you get along. 

Go to a store, pick up equivalent bodies from as many manufacturer's as they have, ignore the name and price, play with them, scroll through the menus, take some pictures, feel it in your hand, take note of the viewfinder, menu structure, placement and feel of the controls. The one that just "feels right" is the one you should buy.

A Nikon D40 you love to shoot with beats the Canon 1DM4 you leave at home, or, the Canon Rebel you enjoy beats the Nikon D3 you leave at home. Any camera you use can take good photographs, no camera left at home will take any pictures at all.

Now some people will say that the bodies change so rapidly that the "feeling" doesn't matter. I disagree. The first SLR I ever bought new was a Nikon FG (still have two of them), it amazingly has the same general "feel" as my D90, and D80, and N90s, and FA, and FM2n, etc etc.

Allan


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## orb9220 (Sep 7, 2010)

flea77 said:


> I am going to have to be the odd man out and disagree with everyone
> 
> For me, the primary concern is not body features (they change too rapidly), lenses (all of the big boys have enough lenses you can do anything you want anyway) or experience (Sony has very little compared to Nikon or Canon). What matters to me is how well the camera and you get along.
> 
> ...



Totally agree. They are both great systems. I liked the handling, feel, buttons and menu layout better on the Nikon. 

If really into borrowing lenses are fine then Canon may be your cup of tea.

But way too many put so much emphasis of this sensor vs. that sensor, Noise, ISO ,etc. That they forget it is just as important to minimize frustration. And the ergonomics,controls and menu's to getting the shot.

When it comes to glass both systems have great glass and either would fill the bill for the growing photographer. Including Sigma & Tamron for both systems.

The other thing that sold me on Nikon was CLS flash system which has no equal in my opinion of flexibility and options.

I am no expert or pro. So take my recommends with a grain or two. 
But think you can't go wrong with either systems. So go to a store and handle a few before deciding.
.


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## inTempus (Sep 7, 2010)

If you run with a group of friends that shoot Canon and they're cool with sharing lenses/accessories, it makes perfect sense to buy a new Canon so you're not the odd man out.  It also helps shorten the learning curve if you can pick the brains of your buddies with more experience using that particular brand.  

Either way, both Nikon and Canon make great bodies that offer some of the best performance available.  

I would get some shutter time at your local camera store with the models you're considering.  Most folks have pretty strong opinions as to what make offers the bodies that best fit them.  Erogonomics, location of the controls, weight, menu layout, etc. all play a role in the overall "feel" of a body.  I don't think I could ever buy a totally new body without first being able to fiddle with it to make sure it fits me.


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## cfusionpm (Sep 7, 2010)

orb9220 said:


> The other thing that sold me on Nikon was CLS flash system which has no equal in my opinion of flexibility and options.


From what I understand (because I'm not as familiar with the Nikon CLS system) is that Canon's is about the same now with what they introduced in the 7D (and will be in the 60D): wirelessly trigger four channels and three groups with the pop up.  Some features aren't the be-all-end-all, but it was a feature that Canon was sorely lacking for a long time.  It's nice to see them finally include that in their cameras.


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## Derrel (Sep 7, 2010)

cfusionpm said:


> orb9220 said:
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> > The other thing that sold me on Nikon was CLS flash system which has no equal in my opinion of flexibility and options.
> ...



It's hardly "the same"...here...read up from a master Canon off-camera flash user...Canon has miles to go...

My Canon Speedlite Wishlist | PixSylated by Syl Arena ? Honestly-Biased Insights on Photography


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## cfusionpm (Sep 7, 2010)

Derrel said:


> cfusionpm said:
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> > orb9220 said:
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The guy brings up some decent points, but I find it funny a number of his complaints are just about layout, names, and button placements.   Good read. :thumbup:


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## inTempus (Sep 7, 2010)

While the 7Ds flash system is a marked improvement, it's still not up to Nikon's CLS systems speed.  Once you get used to the Canon system though it's not all that bad... But it could use some improvement for sure.  

I wish one of the big two would do something totally off the wall and integrate wireless technology into their bodies and flashes.  Until then, I'll continue to use 3rd party triggers as they still trump CLS and Canons built in system in my book.  I have little use for the current native flashed based trigger systems and neither of my bodies even have a built in flash (and I don't miss it).


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## orb9220 (Sep 8, 2010)

I'm all for Canon becoming equal on Nikon's CLS level. As it the user's that benefits and one less contention that the new user has to consider when deciding on one or the other system. As many don't know going in. Just how much flash will play in their development as a photographer.

Competition is good. And would not like seeing either having a Monopoly. Tho Canon seems to have the numbers. Which is more about Marketing and being Seen then Nikon's more apathetic approach to marketing and penetration.   
.


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## Raian-san (Sep 8, 2010)

Simply Nikon.


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## Necrossis (Sep 9, 2010)

Thanks guys for all the advice, but I changed my mind a bit...


Today I actually went to a shop to try some of the DSLR's available... And at first I only wanted to try Nikon D90 and Canon 550D, but than I saw that they have Canon EOS 50D on sale -> body + 17-85 lens = 1000eur.

SOOO, I thought to myself - why not? What do you guys think?


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## Overread (Sep 9, 2010)

Unless you want the video feature of the 550D the 50D is a very capable midrange 1.6 crop camera body and will serve you very well for a long time.


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## Derrel (Sep 9, 2010)

I'd be the most excited by the range of the 17-85 lens, although as Matt pointed out, the newer 15-85 Canon lens seems to be a notably better lens--"newer is better" being kind of a lens design concept that seems to hold a lot of sway. I dunno though...HONESTLY, I think I would pass on a 50D,and go for the newer 60D because it has some features that I think are very handy: the main one being color-aware light metering. In the "affordable" camera segment of Canon's lineup, only the Canon 7D and the new 60D have the new, color-aware light metering, which is IMO, one of the single biggest advantages Nikon has long had over other camera makers. Now, Canon has developed its own color-aware light metering,using a new 4-color measuring system, and is phasing it in to its cameras, and I think that feature is one that a majority of shooters will really come to like a lot. Color-aware metering helps with both continuous light, and with flash metering,and the 60D will have that, and should be on the market very soon.

I do understand however, the allure of a 50D and a genuine Canon 17-85 lens for 1,000 Euro...that's a lot of camera and lens for that much money...I dunno...the choice is really up to you. The video feature is a new thing, and it seems to be getting better and better. But right now, early September---I think you need to be aware that new NIkons and new Canon bodies are going to be in stores very soon, and that this might be one of those times where it pays to wait and actually check out the new models instead of buying a camera from basically, three cycles backward in time...mostly to prevent some type of buyer's remorse and cognitive dissonance problems, not because the 50D is horrible or anything. I don;t know you, or your beliefs about camera gear, but I do think it's smart to buy early in a product cycle,rather than later.


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## MrLogic (Sep 9, 2010)

Derrel said:


> In the "affordable" camera segment of Canon's lineup, only the Canon 7D and the new 60D have the new, color-aware light metering



The more affordable Canon 550D / Rebel T2i has the same color-aware metering system.

Canon EOS T2i (Rebel T2i, Canon 550D) Digital Camera - Full Review - The Imaging Resource!


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## Derrel (Sep 9, 2010)

MrLogic said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> > In the "affordable" camera segment of Canon's lineup, only the Canon 7D and the new 60D have the new, color-aware light metering
> ...




Ah! I'd forgotten about the T2i. Thanks for the link, but it's not quite "the same" metering system in the T2i and 7D. As per the link you provided, "The Canon T2i now includes a 63-zone iFCL sensor, which stands for Intelligent Focus, Color, and Luminance metering. The name hints at how the sensor works: the iFCL chip has a dual-layer design with each layer sensitive to different wavelengths of light, allowing subject color to be taken into account when determining exposure. Information on focusing points is also taken into account in metering calculations, and it is in this area that the Canon T2i's iFCL chip differs from that of the EOS 7D, accounting for fewer focus points in the consumer Rebel camera than its prosumer sibling. Like the T1i before it, the Canon T2i offers nine-point focusing with a central cross-type f/2.8 focus point, rather than the 19-point AF of the 7D. The focusing screen, likewise, is of the etched variety, and not the fancy LCD overlay on the Canon 7D."

This is similar to the way Nikon has 420-area measurement in the consumer models, and 1,005 area metering in the higher-end models. As I understand it the 7D and the EOS 60D have "the same exact" metering system, while the T2i has the stripped-down,slightly lower-spec'd system, kind of the way Nikon bifurcates its metering systems, always keeping the "best" technologies in the higher-priced cameras.


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## prodigy2k7 (Sep 9, 2010)

Derrel said:


> MrLogic said:
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> > Derrel said:
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Its close enough to "the same" that its not even worth mentioning IMO. That's just nit picking now...


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## Necrossis (Sep 9, 2010)

The lens was the thing that actually caught my eye the most. 

Yes, I know, that's why I'm ready to wait for a few weeks, maybe even months before buying a new camera. But lately I saw so many great deals that just made me want to buy a DSLR as soon as possible! For example - someone is seeling a new 7D body for only 990&#8364; and it really seemed not much to me, since all the other 7D's are 1,5k+&#8364;.

I'm really not into the whole video feature thing, so it's really the least important thing, atleast for me.

I don't know really. At the moment I'm sure I'm going to buy a Canon, the only problem is that I'm confused which one. Today I tried both - 50D and 550D and the 50D just felt better, probably also because of it's size. Would be buying a 7D a bit over the top? I'm not really a amateur, but since all the new cameras are coming out...


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## Derrel (Sep 9, 2010)

Well, "nitpicking" versus "accuracy" is something one might want to consider, since Canon is clearly reserving one technology for the higher-end bodies, and different implementations are very critical on things like 4-color metering...Nikon's D80 had a crap metering system...the D90 has an awesome metering system...what make sme wonder about the actual performance we'll actually see from users world-wide when the 60D hits is the viewfinder screen differences in the 7D, and the T2i and the 60D...the actual readings are taken OFF OF THE SCREEN,inside the camera...the 7D, like Nikon's D300 and D300s, uses the transmissive LCD type viewfinder screen, while the T2I uses the old-school type of viewfinder screen. THis could be a very,very,very significant factor in how the metering actually works out as "smart metering".

While it might seem like "nitpicking", iFCL metering is at Version 1.3 right now....the original 7D, then the T2i in version 1.2, and the as-yet-unavailable 60D we'll call version 1.3. The difference between a transmissive LCD viewfinder screen and a plain,low-technology viewfinder screen could easily be a critical real-world difference between the different cameras. Light metering in say, the Nikon D80 for example, totally sucked, with HUGE problems in metering depending on what AF area was selected...I suspect that Canon might also be having some teething problems as they bring a totally new (really, radically new!!!) light metering technology onto the market.

It seems like the more points of data collection, within reason, the better the automated decision making process could potentially be. Of course, practice and theory are often different. My main complaint about the Canons I have owned has been their dumb, color-blind light metering. That is, I think, the main technological weakness Canon still has, and they're really working on improving that area with this new iFCL metering campaign. I suspect that each,individual body will perform slightly differently, even though the base technology might be similar in name, the actual implementation might be as widely different as say the Nikon D80 versus the D90...one was weak, the other significantly better at metering.

Light metering becomes a big,big factor in run-n-gun and fast-action shooting,as well as one-handed, one-the-go and Point and Shoot type uses where less-than-expert people are running/shooting the camera.


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