# Focusing issues going from a 50D to 5D Mark III



## JClishe (Mar 26, 2012)

My 5D3 arrived on Friday (guess I need to change my signature) and I shot about 400 shots with it in the studio over the weekend. I noticed that I have a higher percentage of missed focus shots than I'm used to with my 50D, particularly at wider apertures (4.0 - 5.6 or so). This is my first time using a full frame camera, is this likely a situation of the DoF being thinner on FF versus my 50D's sensor, and I just need to pay more attention to my focus point? I'm wondering if I was simply able to get away with being a little "sloppy" with focusing on the 50D and I need to untrain bad habits? I have some boudior shots where the model was laying on her back looking up at me and at F/4 her forehead is sharp and her eyes are soft. Based on my distance to the model, F/4 wasn't typically that shallow on my 50D so I suspect this is user error but I'm still curious what others think about moving from crop to FF and how that affects focusing.


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## o hey tyler (Mar 26, 2012)

I do recall going from a T1i to a 5D. The best way I could equate it is like it's riding a bigger bike. You just need to get used to how it handles differently than your smaller bike. There's going to be a narrower plane of focus at the same aperture. Frankly, f/4 sounds a bit wide for shooting studio portraits unless you're very comfortable with your gear. Care to post any of the shots? Perhaps the whole image, and then some 100% crops? EXIF would help too.


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## Derrel (Mar 26, 2012)

f/4 is a wide enough aperture that at close, indoor distances, there very well might not be enough depth of field to bridge the distance between the forehead and the eyes at close camera-to-subject distances...keep in mind that when shooting downward, the depth of field is much shallower than if the camera is level and shooting directly out "into space"...if the angle of the lens is pretty steep, the depth of field plane is much less able to be "applied" to anything that rises "up" and off of say a table (or bed or couch, or whatever). You mention the model looking up, so I am inferring that there's a bit of an angle to the lens-to-subject line.

Focus point is also a critical issue...it has to be placed carefully and properly...


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## gsgary (Mar 26, 2012)

Why are you shooting F4 in the studio ? continuos lighting ?


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## JClishe (Mar 26, 2012)

gsgary said:


> Why are you shooting F4 in the studio ? continuos lighting ?



In the F4 example I was specifically going for a shallow DoF, it just turned out a little shallower than I expected. I'll post a few examples shortly.


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## Village Idiot (Mar 26, 2012)

That camera also has micro focusing, so print out a focusing chart and see if the focus needs a quick calibration.


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## Big Mike (Mar 26, 2012)

Yes, I'd guess that working with a shallower DOF than you're used to, might be a cause for more missed shots.  

Also, do you change your focus points or do you tend to focus and recompose?  The focus and recompose method may introduce a slight distance change, which may show up as missed focus when working with a shallower DOF. 
I now use my focus points more often, since going to a full frame camera.  Unfortunately for me, the 5DmkII has a tightly packed AF point array.


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## JClishe (Mar 26, 2012)

Big Mike said:


> Also, do you change your focus points or do you tend to focus and recompose?



I change my focus points. Which is actually more of a pain now since the 5D3 has so many more focus points than the 50D, it takes longer to move to the focus point I want. But I'll get used it, it's a good problem to have 


And I'm using spot AF on the 5D3, is that generally what I should be using in the studio? I literally unboxed this thing Friday night and used it in the studio Saturday morning; the AF is way more complex than my 50D and I haven't fully digested the manual yet.


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## JClishe (Mar 26, 2012)

OK here are some full size samples. Now that I've thought about this a bit longer and have spent more time looking at the EXIF data, I think I was simply using too wide of an aperture. I'm generally not doing anything differently than I did with my 50D, but I think the 50D simply let me "get away with" using a wider aperture in the studio, and the 5D won't be as forgiving to my stupidity.

Soft / missed focus
http://sdrv.ms/GObrA3
http://sdrv.ms/HbTdZ7
http://sdrv.ms/H5W3AY

Boderline
http://sdrv.ms/GObJ9Z
http://sdrv.ms/GObJXw

Shaper / better
http://sdrv.ms/HbSVRV
http://sdrv.ms/HbT0F9
http://sdrv.ms/GObonV


Also please keep in mind I've done no editing at all to these, these are RAW's converted to JPG in DPP and nothing else done to them. I'm posting them for focusing-related feedback only.


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## gsgary (Mar 26, 2012)

Have you tried back button focus it works great in the studio ?


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## punch (Mar 26, 2012)

is it heavier?  i found going from a T1i to the 50D that I was missing focus just because it was so much heavier at first...  but maybe you have man wrists and not sticks like i do.


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## JClishe (Mar 26, 2012)

gsgary said:


> Have you tried back button focus it works great in the studio ?



Yes, I use back button focus.


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## JClishe (Mar 26, 2012)

punch said:


> is it heavier? i found going from a T1i to the 50D that I was missing focus just because it was so much heavier at first... but maybe you have man wrists and not sticks like i do.



The 5D3 body is heavier than the 50D, but my 50D is gripped and the 5D3 is not so weight is pretty much a wash at this point.


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## Robin Usagani (Mar 26, 2012)

Damn you.. i want one .  Jealous.


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## JClishe (Mar 26, 2012)

Schwettylens said:


> Damn you.. i want one . Jealous.



Jealous about the camera or the model?  In all seriousness she was one of the most experienced models I've worked with and she was great, I hope to have the chance to work with her again.


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## tommyboy (Mar 27, 2012)

I think it has to do with going from an aps-c size sensor to a full frame on the 5D.  I've heard the DOF on the full frame model is significantly shallower than same aperture on smaller APS-C sensor.


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## JacquesV (Apr 1, 2012)

JClishe said:


> My 5D3 arrived on Friday (guess I need to change my signature) and I shot about 400 shots with it in the studio over the weekend. I noticed that I have a higher percentage of missed focus shots than I'm used to with my 50D, particularly at wider apertures (4.0 - 5.6 or so). This is my first time using a full frame camera, is this likely a situation of the DoF being thinner on FF versus my 50D's sensor, and I just need to pay more attention to my focus point? I'm wondering if I was simply able to get away with being a little "sloppy" with focusing on the 50D and I need to untrain bad habits? I have some boudior shots where the model was laying on her back looking up at me and at F/4 her forehead is sharp and her eyes are soft. Based on my distance to the model, F/4 wasn't typically that shallow on my 50D so I suspect this is user error but I'm still curious what others think about moving from crop to FF and how that affects focusing.


 Hi, I just posted this on canon rumors as well and I think you will find it help full as there is a thread for this topic there too.The mark iii seems to have a serious default focusing problem. You will notice this all the time when shooting wide open, especially with big lenses used open like a 200 f/2 or 400 f/2.8. Each lens will need to be micro adjusted (5 tab on AF menu) it is a tedious procedure but the only way to get sharp photos when shooting open. I really hope Canon brings out a software update to fix this ridiculous problem. Below I list my findings I'll start doing the micro adjustment tomorrow    50 f/1.2 front focus, 200 f/2 front focus, 70-200 f/2.8 ii @ 70 spot on @ 200 front focus, 400 f2.8 ii back focus allot!*  not nice so every lens is different and with every doubler the trouble doubles*


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## hukim0531 (Apr 1, 2012)

JClishe said:


> My 5D3 arrived on Friday (guess I need to change my signature) and I shot about 400 shots with it in the studio over the weekend. I noticed that I have a higher percentage of missed focus shots than I'm used to with my 50D, particularly at wider apertures (4.0 - 5.6 or so). This is my first time using a full frame camera, is this likely a situation of the DoF being thinner on FF versus my 50D's sensor, and I just need to pay more attention to my focus point? I'm wondering if I was simply able to get away with being a little "sloppy" with focusing on the 50D and I need to untrain bad habits? I have some boudior shots where the model was laying on her back looking up at me and at F/4 her forehead is sharp and her eyes are soft. Based on my distance to the model, F/4 wasn't typically that shallow on my 50D so I suspect this is user error but I'm still curious what others think about moving from crop to FF and how that affects focusing.



I would put your 5D3 through a series of focus test with the lenses you have at your disposal.  It's not just lens that can have focus problem.  If all of your lenses are consistently showing either back or front focus, you know your camera will need to go back for calibration.


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## fokker (Apr 1, 2012)

OP, you may want to put a NWS warning on those shots. I didn't mind though


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## KmH (Apr 1, 2012)

It wouldn't be the first time Canon shipped a new high end model with auto focus and other problems - Canon says EOS-1D Mark III AF issues fixed, now leave us alone -- Engadget


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## JClishe (Apr 1, 2012)

To be honest the point of my post was more a question about whether greater focus point precision is generally required when moving up to full frame from a crop body. I do plan on doing some focus tests with my lenses, but my suspicion is this is user error. Actually I'd prefer to call it a "learning curve".


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## mcap1972 (Apr 2, 2012)

Try micro-adjustment - it should help if the lens is the problem.


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## JacquesV (Apr 2, 2012)

Thanks, I had most of my kit at my dealer today, where we carried out some more precise testing on a proper setup. The only lens that was spot on was the 85 prime. All others (f2.8 or wider) had some front or back focusing, with erratic results. When we moved the test rig outside to natural light we had different results. In the end we contacted canon who will now be helping us to resolve the problem. I'm so glad that I'm dealing with a reputable retailer, they are great 
Remember this is on a brand new 5D iii.


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## idratherplaytennis (Apr 19, 2012)

I made a similar jump, in going from a 20D cropped to the 5DIII as well, and noticed the same thing you seem to be noticing (I think... I couldn't see the photos that everyone seems to be jealous of ) but from other posts via canonrumors forums etc, I've found that it probably is error on my part, shooting with a far narrower dof than I am used to as well. On the few shots I got of my dog, where it is spot on with her eyes, the reflection is intense, but I (along with some other forum members) felt the shots were too wide open. Case in point being one shot where her head was just slightly tilted, shooting at f/4 and one eye was in focus, the other just soft and ever so slightly out. Then the shots that I miss, tend to be due to her movement or focus hitting something else which was very intense in the one area but not the rest. 

Definitely going to be practicing this a lot and shooting far less wide open than I used to (on close up objects/dogs etc). Had no idea that the crop affected the DOF as much as it really does when you go to a FF. On the upside, I'm no longer afraid to stop it down as much thanks to the obscene jump in IQ at high ISO's, shooting something and viewing it at anything above what was acceptable to me on my 20D at basicall 100-4 or 800, and going into the 1000's?? I literally think I "bwahahaa-ed" out loud >


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