# Cgipson banned?  Huh?



## michael9000000 (Nov 5, 2013)

I've been gone for a bit...  So, what the f*** happened to get Charlie banned?  Can someone fill me in?


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## IByte (Nov 5, 2013)

I'm just as surprise d as you are lol. Damn I hope it's only a temp ban.


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## DarkShadow (Nov 5, 2013)

I think it would best to ask by PM to a mod as  to a open forum. If I am not mistaken the mods have said this before. I like Charlie, So hopefully he will be back.


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## kathyt (Nov 5, 2013)

michael9000000 said:


> I've been gone for a bit...  So, what the f*** happened to get Charlie banned?  Can someone fill me in?


90 days.  You will have to ask the mods why. I don't want to get in trouble for telling you. I miss him too!


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## 480sparky (Nov 5, 2013)

kathythorson said:


> 90 days.  You will have to ask the mods why. I don't want to get in trouble for telling you. I miss him too!




Oh, tell him.  I like naughty girls!  :hug::


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## tecboy (Nov 5, 2013)

He got banned because TPF is over crowded.  I wonder who will be next?


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## mishele (Nov 6, 2013)

I miss Charlie, too. I hope he decides to come back in December.


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## Braineack (Nov 6, 2013)

mishele said:


> I miss Charlie, too. I hope he decides to come back in December.



I doubt he will.


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## astroNikon (Nov 6, 2013)

banned for 60 days

but he said he wasn't going to be back when I chatted with him .. but I'll point him to this thread to show the love for his "postings & input"


mishele ... what is that Avatar now ??


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## Braineack (Nov 6, 2013)

astroNikon said:


> mishele ... what is that Avatar now ??



no abs, no care.


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## kathyt (Nov 6, 2013)

astroNikon said:


> banned for 60 days
> 
> but he said he wasn't going to be back when I chatted with him .. but I'll point him to this thread to show the love for his "postings & input"
> 
> ...


Oops my bad. 60....90....I am just so upset about it that I can't even think straight.


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## annamaria (Nov 6, 2013)

Oh no I wonder what happened. Hope he comes back.


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## mishele (Nov 6, 2013)

Braineack said:


> astroNikon said:
> 
> 
> > mishele ... what is that Avatar now ??
> ...



Jeez, tough crowd!!

Charlie's ban wasn't taken lightly by the mod team. It was a very difficult decision and we spent a lot of time discussing it. No one wanted to see Charlie go, but to be fair, we can only give so many warnings and infractions out.  It eventually comes down to the person being able to fall in line w/ the guidelines of the forum. Charlie is a wealth of information and it will be a huge loss to the forum if he doesn't return. Hopefully, he will reconsider.


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## Tee (Nov 6, 2013)

spanishgirleyes said:


> Oh no I wonder what happened. Hope he comes back.



Charlie calls it as he sees it which is why his "I just went to Best buy, now I'm a pro" rants are classic and epic. I hope he comes back although I'm sure some mods wish he wouldn't. Too many people read Charlie's posts subjectively rather than objectively. 

...in before the lock.


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## astroNikon (Nov 6, 2013)

Tee said:


> spanishgirleyes said:
> 
> 
> > Oh no I wonder what happened. Hope he comes back.
> ...



Hey, I bought my camera at Best Buy !!  



as a psuedo moderator on another forum, I can understand the outcome as I've seen his rants.  Though justifiable"-ish" from a Pro's viewpoint against a newbie "Pro" asking what the difference between Manual and Aperture, the rants are a bit overboard in the sense of "let everyone be friends on the internet and not chase people away" that most Forums try to maintain.


Of course, it helps if one of the Admins maintains a dancing track & field runner as their avatar.  It's just distracting enough.


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## manicmike (Nov 6, 2013)

I don't get why Charlie was banned when there are at least a couple other members who post nothing but condescending and negative comments and yet they are still allowed to roam free.


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## sm4him (Nov 6, 2013)

I'll just say this: For those of you who benefitted from Charlie's help, or valued his input on this forum, I'm sure he'd love to hear that from you, whether he comes back or not. 
There *are* some circumstances under which I think he might, eventually, return--but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting on it.


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## terri (Nov 6, 2013)

Tee said:


> spanishgirleyes said:
> 
> 
> > Oh no I wonder what happened. Hope he comes back.
> ...



  This is incorrect, and its unfortunate that this perception exists.   Charlie did a lot worse than offend one particular member; honestly, it takes a lot for a regular member to get banned around here.   All we ask is that everyone abides by the TPF guidelines, especially the ones regarding behavior.   As Mish mentioned, he had plenty of opportunities.   We spent a lot of time chatting with him, and I dont think there is a mod on the team who was happy about this penalty.    

  You may consider his rants against newbies and amateurs classic and epic, but from a moderator viewpoint, they are simply disruptive, disrespectful, and not in keeping with the guidelines.   

The moderating team is here to enforce the guidelines.    We are not the gestapo.     Please avoid the insults; weve done nothing to earn that title.   

  Soooo easy to be on the outside looking in, and be a Monday morning quarterback!


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## pixmedic (Nov 6, 2013)

actually, after literally a FULL DAY of Mod discussion, the initial conclusion was a permanent ban. 
it was reduced to a lengthy temp ban because we all felt that Charlie DID have a lot to offer the forum community, and it was our hope that he would return to the forum and keep to the guidelines.  

being a newer Mod here, i was honestly surprised at how hesitant the team was to even seriously entertain the idea of a permanent ban. 
It was definitely not a decision made lightly, or by any one mod, and there was no malice involved.


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## Tailgunner (Nov 6, 2013)

Ole Charlie, what will the TPF without him? I must admit, he was annoying when I first started out but I grew to like and respect a lot of the things he had to say. A lot of the things he said made sense, he just doesn't sugar coat anything lol


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## Braineack (Nov 6, 2013)

sm4him said:


> I'll just say this: For those of you who benefitted from Charlie's help, or valued his input on this forum, I'm sure he'd love to hear that from you, whether he comes back or not.
> There *are* some circumstances under which I think he might, eventually, return--but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting on it.



I actually tried to find out what forum he may have migrated over to in order to follow him over...


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## ratssass (Nov 6, 2013)

manicmike said:


> I don't get why Charlie was banned when there are at least a couple other members who post nothing but condescending and negative comments and yet they are still allowed to roam free.




...consistently inconsistent.I *DO* appreciate the guidance Charlie and others have provided,and that includes newbs and the some what strange questions that are asked.


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## tirediron (Nov 6, 2013)

ratssass said:


> manicmike said:
> 
> 
> > I don't get why Charlie was banned when there are at least a couple other members who post nothing but condescending and negative comments and yet they are still allowed to roam free.
> ...


Please bear a few facts in mind:

1.  You probably did not see or were not privy to all of the aspects of a certain issue;

2.  Moderators are volunteers; we do this to try and make TPF a nice place to be.  We are [allegedly] human, we don't see everything and we do make mistakes; 

3.  As alluded to earlier in this thread, almost no decision regarding a ban, even a short ban is made without a lengthy discussion by as many moderators as are available; and

4.  We do our best to ensure the even enforcement of standards across the board.


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## terri (Nov 6, 2013)

If you believe you see inconsistency, then perhaps posts you see that you think need action aren't being reported.   Please use the "report post" feature!   We do not and cannot see everything, and we rely on our members to point out suspect posts.   

Thank you for your understanding.


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## ratssass (Nov 6, 2013)

tirediron said:


> ratssass said:
> 
> 
> > manicmike said:
> ...





...perhaps i should've voiced this differently. Of your first 3 points,you're absolutely correct (the human thing,I'll just accept on blind faith).But from the outside looking in,enforcement does seem to be all over the place.I've said it before,and I'll say it again:Moderators have an unenviable job.I think you all try your best.


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## kundalini (Nov 6, 2013)

Cgipson had been on my ignore list for quite some time.


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## runnah (Nov 6, 2013)

I think the obvious solution is to grant me the power to mod the moderators. Think Judge Judy but with a beard and penis.


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## The_Traveler (Nov 6, 2013)

ratssass said:


> But from the outside looking in,enforcement does seem to be all over the place.I've said it before,and I'll say it again:Moderators have an unenviable job.I think you all try your best.



I think the difference is that Charlie was straight ahead, take no prisoners and so it was easy to see when he went off the rails. Others here are more _stealth-@$$h0le-ish_ and get by because each individual unpleasantness is difficult to point to as an egregious offense.

You can take some satisfaction is that, in the end, they have to live forever in their own company.


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## limr (Nov 6, 2013)

runnah said:


> I think the obvious solution is to grant me the power to mod the moderators. Think Judge Judy but with a beard and penis.



Will the brass stones be the same as hers?


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## limr (Nov 6, 2013)

It's already been mentioned that we non-mods are not privy to all the incidents that would cause someone to be banned. Posts may have been removed and we would never know just how incendiary they might have been. This may add to the illusion that rules are being inconsistently enforced.

Charlie definitely made no bones about his strong opinions and I personally had no problem ignoring him when he was just being douchy. But then again, I have a long history - both in real life and on the Internet - of learning when to ignore the blowhard and when to pay attention. Some of the newcomers to the forum, however,  might be put off by him (or others as forceful in their manner and opinions) and that is counter to the purpose of this virtual community we've all chosen to be part of. We all might have gotten used to him, but we don't know how many others have felt insulted and put off. On the one hand, we could say those people just need to grow a thicker skin. This may be true. But does that mean the purpose of our participation needs to include "Force newbies to have tougher skin"? Are we then saying that we are going to provide the tough love of the Internet? Do we want to become that kind of a place? I don't, simply because I think it would be much more fruitful for _everyone_ (not just newbies) to provide a balance between honest criticism, spirited discussion, and _&#8203;civility._


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## cynicaster (Nov 6, 2013)

Honestly, the first thing that comes to mind when I think of that guy&#8212;nay, the only thing that comes to mind when I think of that guy&#8212;is a propensity for indignant ranting and raving about the antics of folks he deems to be lesser photographers than himself.  I quickly learned to just ignore that stuff, and I&#8217;m not saying I&#8217;m glad he&#8217;s banned, but I guess I&#8217;m far too new here to understand why it&#8217;s such a monumental loss.  Experienced and knowledgeable as he may be, as far as I&#8217;m concerned, every disruptive and ornery harangue has the effect of negating a positive contribution of equal size.  

  IBTL


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## hopdaddy (Nov 6, 2013)

I got along really well with Charlie............ And Intempest ,And Jez ,And ,and ,well I could list many . Point is ,the slot will be filled by someone,.. . I really would rather have "Bitter Jeweler" back , than some who are still here now, Filling his slot, However...," Bitter aspect" can stay GONE ! I hope you guys/Gals get my point .

" It's All the same ,Only the Names are Changed "


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## mmaria (Nov 6, 2013)

I haven't been here for a very long time, but I liked him. He was one of the first people I memorized here on TPF.


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## IByte (Nov 6, 2013)

kathythorson said:


> 90 days.  You will have to ask the mods why. I don't want to get in trouble for telling you. I miss him too!



Oooooo Kathy likes the bad boys


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## IByte (Nov 6, 2013)

QUOTE="runnah;3089783"]I think the obvious solution is to grant me the power to mod the moderators. Think Judge Judy but with a beard and penis.[/QUOTE]

.....Judge Runnah brown tv...."Guilty!! Aaaaalll of you are guilty!!!" layball:


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## Derrel (Nov 6, 2013)

A few months ago, I suggested to Tirediron via PM that maybe TPF should begin a new forum sub-section, where beginning professionals and new pro's and part-time pros and such could come to bring up their issues and questions, ideas, and so on. After a while, the mod squad and the admins decided to put that into action, and the Aspiring Professionals Forum was born. At first, I really thought that questions and issues brought up in that forum would be approached with a bit more reasoned responses, and a lot less vitriol, and blame-assignment for ruining the entire industry,and so on. Apparently not. It seems that even in the Aspiring Professionals forum, a number of posters were given "both barrels", and occasionally, lessons in ad hominem communication via TPF...

I can take spirited discussion, even disagreement. Heck, I even enjoy seeing *the occasiona*l head-butting and testosterone-filled arguments that sometimes erupt here, between "the regulars" ,or "the regulars and newbies", or whatever. But I really think it's unfair to repeatedly and vociferously categorically berate or demean or humiliate the entire "beginner class of pro shooter", or the MWAC or GWAC, or the weekend baby-picture shooter, or whoever, over and over. Yeah, I know the industry is in dire straits...I used to make a full-time good living working in studio family portraiture, two decades ago. But that was THEN, and this is now. I spend (waste?) a lot of time here, trying to answer questions, provide info or insight, opinions, links, gear suggestions, and my own point of view. I willingly share what I know, with people who come here to TPF to ask questions and get advice and guidance. Some of you might consider me an a$$h0[e, and hey, I've received two temporary bans here in my five years or so here...but the one thing I try not to do is to repeatedly attack the entire generation of new shooters, and new pros, ad hominem. If you're an ass, I might respond in kind. But I think that ad hominem attacks on the entire class of new professionals and aspiring professionals, and just the brusque newbie-bashing, were keys here.


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## JacaRanda (Nov 6, 2013)

Odd...........because I liked what Charlie offered the forum, is probably the same reason I had a tough time ignoring the not so nice stuff.  

I had my on rule that I would not get caught up in anything.  Dummy ME, lost my cool over comments about Howard Stern of all people!!!!!  Sheeesshhh, how silly is that?  (no need to answer )


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## Overread (Nov 6, 2013)

Ok people lets keep to moderator policy here and not end up going into personal details about this situation with regard to a member who is not able to speak here at present. We don't want to lock this thread, but if things get too personal we will close it down. 



I've little to add to what has already been said by others; this was not a choice we made lightly and no one on the team as calling for a ban outright. It's just that if a member (any member) causes the same trouble over and over the reaction of the mod team escalates. Normally a notice or a warning is enough - sometimes people get carried away without realising it. When it repeats more and more a short term suspension normally suffices. This is one special case where such hasn't happened and we've ended up being slowly backed into a corner with regard to what options we have left open to us.
We've taken an option that does, however, leave the door open; wide open. We didn't want to close that door and issue a full ban - indeed we hate doing it. We don't get to be mods on this site by being trigger happy; but rather as a result of our input and presence in the community itself - as a result we hate having to push anyone out.



Note - we are sorry that it lists suspensions as bans, sadly its a limitation of the software and code which means that "ban" is given to anyone even if its only a few hours of suspended time.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Nov 6, 2013)

hopdaddy said:


> I got along really well with Charlie............ And Intempest ,And Jez ,And ,and ,well I could list many . Point is ,the slot will be filled by someone,.. . I really would rather have "Bitter Jeweler" back , than some who are still here now, Filling his slot, However...," Bitter aspect" can stay GONE ! I hope you guys/Gals get my point .
> 
> " It's All the same ,Only the Names are Changed "



:hug::


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## texkam (Nov 6, 2013)

Could someone recommend a ban-free photo forum?


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## runnah (Nov 6, 2013)

I liked Chuck, he was a straight shooter who didn't pull punches. World needs more people like him.


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## usayit (Nov 6, 2013)

texkam said:


> Could someone recommend a ban-free photo forum?



dpreview perhaps?


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## SCraig (Nov 6, 2013)

Charlie is my friend and one of the very few people on this forum that I truly respected because of, and not in spite of, his honest forthright manner.  I am of the opinion that the chances of his returning are pretty much zero though.  I do hope I find out where he lands though since I may just join him there.


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## The_Traveler (Nov 6, 2013)

I emailed back and forth with Charlie, telling him how much everyone liked him and valued his truthfulness and that, if he could see his way clear to temper his behavior to fit in a bit better, many people, including me, would be happy to see him here.


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## Heitz (Nov 6, 2013)

Free Kevin Mitnick!!!  I mean.... Un-ban Charlie!!!


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## runnah (Nov 6, 2013)

The_Traveler said:


> I emailed back and forth with Charlie, telling him how much everyone liked him and valued his truthfulness and that, if he could see his way clear to temper his behavior to fit in a bit better, many people, including me, would be happy to see him here.



Fit in a bit better? His behavior made him unique in a crowd of same-y forum goers. I see that as a good thing.


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## paigew (Nov 6, 2013)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> hopdaddy said:
> 
> 
> > I got along really well with Charlie............ And Intempest ,And Jez ,And ,and ,well I could list many . Point is ,the slot will be filled by someone,.. . I really would rather have "Bitter Jeweler" back , than some who are still here now, Filling his slot, However...," Bitter aspect" can stay GONE ! I hope you guys/Gals get my point .
> ...


omg your back


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## ratssass (Nov 6, 2013)

brutal honesty is frowned upon in the world of political correctness,despite the fact it may lead to meaningful dialogue.


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## ratssass (Nov 6, 2013)

Heitz said:


> Free Kevin Mitnick!!!  I mean.... Un-ban Charlie!!!




   thats too,funny...............i was just watching a Black Panther movie,and when they were yellin' "FREE Hughie" i was thinking FREE Charlie....


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## The_Traveler (Nov 6, 2013)

I don't make the rules - and we don't know what all the issues are - and in truth, it's none of our business.

It's up to Charlie to fit in - if he wants and how he wants.


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## pixmedic (Nov 6, 2013)

ratssass said:


> brutal honesty is frowned upon in the world of political correctness,despite the fact it may lead to meaningful dialogue.



Let's be realistic though... 
Theres honesty. 
Theres brutal honesty. 
And theres just being a ****

Being a **** never leads to meaningful dialog. 

There is no reason why someone cant express an opinion in a civil manner.


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## JacaRanda (Nov 6, 2013)

pixmedic said:


> ratssass said:
> 
> 
> > brutal honesty is frowned upon in the world of political correctness,despite the fact it may lead to meaningful dialogue.
> ...



I totally agree.  In my opinion most/many of you experienced photographers here are straight shooters without any brut to it at all.  I guess it's perception or something.


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## limr (Nov 6, 2013)

pixmedic said:


> ratssass said:
> 
> 
> > brutal honesty is frowned upon in the world of political correctness,despite the fact it may lead to meaningful dialogue.
> ...



Exactly. Brutal honesty doesn't have to be delivered brutally. It can be direct, forthright, honest, and harsh, but it doesn't have to be said in a manner that is also demeaning. That does not encourage discussion; that shuts it down.

Again, I say this as a person who would like to see Charlie come back. I appreciated his honesty. I also think he was inappropriate at times. His gruffness didn't bother me on a personal level, but I still recognized it as being just too much sometimes.


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## o hey tyler (Nov 6, 2013)

This is a ban that does not bother me in the least. Perhaps I'm the minority. That's fine. Was a bit tired of his excessive use of exclamation points and smilies. 

#shrug


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## terri (Nov 6, 2013)

pixmedic said:


> ratssass said:
> 
> 
> > brutal honesty is frowned upon in the world of political correctness,despite the fact it may lead to meaningful dialogue.
> ...



Exactly.   Some of these comments are getting kind of off track with the actual circumstances at hand.       It's an online photo forum, people...you're expected to play nice.    As was already explained, a temp suspension still reads as a ban on the account, it's a vBulletin setup, not a TPF exclusive.   Charlie knows from personally chatting with me exactly when he is free to return if he feels like it...he likes it here and has lots of friends.      He is also an intelligent adult who isn't afraid to own his own issues...you guys make it sound like he is an unsuspecting victim.   Let's keep it real, okay?


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## SCraig (Nov 6, 2013)

I wish this forum software had a "Dislike" link on it.  I could wear it out on a few topics like this one.


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## pixmedic (Nov 6, 2013)

SCraig said:


> I wish this forum software had a "Dislike" link on it.  I could wear it out on a few topics like this one.



while TPF does not have a "dislike" button, it DOES conveniently have a "dont click on the link" feature that the admins just got up and running a few days ago. 
not everyone has figured out how to use this feature yet, but hopefully it will catch on.  :mrgreen:


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## Tiller (Nov 6, 2013)

o hey tyler said:


> This is a ban that does not bother me in the least. Perhaps I'm the minority. That's fine. Was a bit tired of his excessive use of exclamation points and smilies.  #shrug



I'm tired of your hashtags!


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## Overread (Nov 6, 2013)

Honest critique is something we've tried to encourage where we can and we are not opposed to it. Where the problem stems from is acceptance. 

Many who give critique expect it to be accepted or followed; whilst those who get it do not always agree (for whatever reason). Critique should be a discussion process, where in each person can air their views and then offer the other side the chance to respond. They might not agree, they might disagree or debate back and that is part of the process. The two and fro shouldn't ever come to blows because its not an argument its a debate. 

Sadly there are times where people (on both sides) get annoyed. Someone isn't accepting their viewpoint and things start to shift from debate into snide comments; or others jump in to "defend a friend" or viewpoint and again we start to have snide comments or a beat down of aggressive behaviour upon another member.

This is a mature forum for photographic discussion - users should not have to fend of attacks or beat downs and the whole "its the brutal honest truth" has nothing to do with it. It's about learning to talk with the written word in a polite and clam manner. 



Its not unique to TPF and is a problem experienced on many larger communities. We CAN help fix it though - by leading by example as we mods attempt to do so and by having the key active members also do likewise. If you help you can be the solution.


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## IByte (Nov 6, 2013)

Pumpkin donuts are good for you.


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## terri (Nov 6, 2013)

SCraig said:


> I wish this forum software had a "Dislike" link on it.  I could wear it out on a few topics like this one.



You can always revert to these, when you want to express your baleful feelings:   :x         :roll:layball:

It's all about subtext, you know?


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## Juga (Nov 6, 2013)

Tiller said:


> o hey tyler said:
> 
> 
> > This is a ban that does not bother me in the least. Perhaps I'm the minority. That's fine. Was a bit tired of his excessive use of exclamation points and smilies.  #shrug
> ...



I think you're suppose to #hashtag #hashtags....#YOLO


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## limr (Nov 6, 2013)

Juga said:


> Tiller said:
> 
> 
> > o hey tyler said:
> ...


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## mishele (Nov 6, 2013)

Juga said:


> Tiller said:
> 
> 
> > o hey tyler said:
> ...


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## bentcountershaft (Nov 6, 2013)

Like a lot of people here I like Charlie, but I'm not a bit surprised at this.  Watching Charlie push the buttons of whomever he was disagreeing with was kind of like watching an enthusiastic display of whack-a-mole.


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## ratssass (Nov 6, 2013)

Overread said:


> Honest critique is something we've tried to encourage where we can and we are not opposed to it. Where the problem stems from is acceptance.
> 
> Many who give critique expect it to be accepted or followed; whilst those who get it do not always agree (for whatever reason). Critique should be a discussion process, where in each person can air their views and then offer the other side the chance to respond. They might not agree, they might disagree or debate back and that is part of the process. The two and fro shouldn't ever come to blows because its not an argument its a debate.
> 
> ...



i wanted to just quote this back to Overread in pm buy can't figure out how to copy/paste this in pm,so here goes....I think a problem message boards have in general is the fact that we blurt out the idea that we quickly formed...no inflection,no moment for interruption,etc.I stand by my thoughts that enforcement is haphazard,that OP's do a pretty good job,and that I hope Charlie does return.If you think it's odd that I say enforcement is haphazard,_and_ the OPs do a pretty good job,well,that's the way I see it.

IBTL


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## kathyt (Nov 6, 2013)

IByte said:


> kathythorson said:
> 
> 
> > 90 days.  You will have to ask the mods why. I don't want to get in trouble for telling you. I miss him too!
> ...


He has a sense of humor. Sometimes he was out of line, and that is why I liked him.


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## terri (Nov 6, 2013)

ratssass said:


> Overread said:
> 
> 
> > Honest critique is something we've tried to encourage where we can and we are not opposed to it. Where the problem stems from is acceptance.
> ...



aww, that's all right.   We do the best we can do, and obviously at times being the enforcer of the rules isn't going to sit well with everyone, for varying reasons. " X said pretty much the same thing that Y did, how'd they miss that?  Why is X in trouble when Y is over here saying it again?   Double standards, favoritism, just plain mean...."    I get it, all the mods do.   I can't take offense at someone saying it looks inconsistent, because I don't doubt that it can at times.   Again, don't hesitate to report stuff we might have overlooked.   .....   I just don't like the team being called the gestapo, or The Man, or any of the other unkind things that have been flung at us.     

I've seen a couple of "IBTL", and we don't want to lock the thread...although I'm not sure what else needs to be said.      But...carry on if you'd like.   



> Sometimes he was out of line, and that is why I liked him.



Past tense, Kathy?!   nahhh...!


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## astroNikon (Nov 6, 2013)

terri said:


> I've seen a couple of "IBTL", and we don't want to lock the thread...



Is that like LGBT ?

j/k :lmao:


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## SCraig (Nov 6, 2013)

terri said:


> You can always revert to these, when you want to express your baleful feelings:   :x         :roll:layball:
> 
> It's all about subtext, you know?


There is no emoticon strong enough to express the so-called "baleful feelings" over this situation.


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## IByte (Nov 6, 2013)

Tiller said:


> I'm tired of your hashtags!



# <<<<<--- It's a pound sign! A pound sign, dag nabbit!!


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## mishele (Nov 6, 2013)

SCraig said:


> terri said:
> 
> 
> > You can always revert to these, when you want to express your baleful feelings:   :x         :roll:layball:
> ...


Maybe you can find something here. Just trying to help! 
Your Smileys. Free Additional Smileys for Forums. Beautiful Dolls


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## limr (Nov 6, 2013)

Wow, Michele...that new avatar...it's quite hypnotizing...Those things are bee-boppin' and scattin' all over the place.


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## mishele (Nov 6, 2013)

limr said:


> Wow, Michele...that new avatar...it's quite hypnotizing...Those things are bee-boppin' and scattin' all over the places.


If I ever win the lottery, I'm going to buy a pair just like it!!


----------



## limr (Nov 6, 2013)

mishele said:


> limr said:
> 
> 
> > Wow, Michele...that new avatar...it's quite hypnotizing...Those things are bee-boppin' and scattin' all over the places.
> ...



I'll probably keep mine, but just make them all perky-like.

See...Charlie HAS to come back again! He'd miss the avatar and suggestive tangents!


----------



## mishele (Nov 6, 2013)

limr said:


> mishele said:
> 
> 
> > limr said:
> ...



Charlie would be all over this discussion!! :greenpbl:


----------



## runnah (Nov 6, 2013)

I am sure you two ladies are perfect the way you are.


----------



## kathyt (Nov 6, 2013)

runnah said:


> I am sure you two ladies are perfect the way you are.


Is this really runnah posting right now? This is lacking sexual innuendos.


----------



## runnah (Nov 6, 2013)

kathythorson said:


> Is this really runnah posting right now? This is lacking sexual innuendos.



Sorry I had a long and hard day. I just couldn't wait to bury my aching head between two pillows and drift off to complete bliss.


----------



## limr (Nov 6, 2013)

runnah said:


> kathythorson said:
> 
> 
> > Is this really runnah posting right now? This is lacking sexual innuendos.
> ...



Aaaaaaand, he's back


----------



## DGMPhotography (Nov 6, 2013)

Strange.... When I started a similar topic about the banning of Bynx, it got immediately shut down, no discussion. But like Charlie, though he was harsh, I learned in time to appreciate his criticisms.

I really did not like Charlie that much at all, at first, but then the past few weeks or so I noticed that he's been much kinder on my threads. I don't know if it's because I showed to him I really appreciated his comments, or if he has a "you have to be a member for this long for me to be nice to you" requirement. 

Anyway, I hope he comes back too, but I also want the same for Bynx and I find it a little strange that Bynx wasn't offered the same courtesy.


----------



## Steve5D (Nov 6, 2013)

Don't miss Bynx, won't miss Charlie.

Neither one of them ever really exhibited the ability to offer constructive criticism. Being direct can certainly have its place, but they went beyond being direct. They were, quite often, simply mean.

There's just no reason to do that, and the moderators acted accordingly.

Kudos to them...


----------



## vintagesnaps (Nov 6, 2013)

I don't know what happened in this situation but this type thing seems to be happening so often, threads being locked, posts deleted, someone being banned etc. I don't think actions like that may be as effective as they could be when getting used so much. 

People have made comments about there being a culture on here and I can't help but wonder if some of what happens on here has gotten so it's become accepted as just the way it is. I know a couple of photographers who told me they used to be on here but aren't much anymore and that the site has developed 'a reputation'. I think it would be worth TPF management taking a look at why this happens so often and how things might be changed to help make the site better.


----------



## tirediron (Nov 7, 2013)

Does it really happen that often?  Putting aside spam, cross-posting, etc, I doubt if we lock more than a few threads a week on average.  Given our membership and the number of threads started here each day, I think that's pretty darn good.  As for banning...  again, discounting spambots, etc, one a month?  Maybe!


----------



## Steve5D (Nov 7, 2013)

vintagesnaps said:


> I don't know what happened in this situation but this type thing seems to be happening so often, threads being locked, posts deleted, someone being banned etc. I don't think actions like that may be as effective as they could be when getting used so much.
> 
> People have made comments about there being a culture on here and I can't help but wonder if some of what happens on here has gotten so it's become accepted as just the way it is. I know a couple of photographers who told me they used to be on here but aren't much anymore and that the site has developed 'a reputation'. I think it would be worth TPF management taking a look at why this happens so often and how things might be changed to help make the site better.



I don't see how you can say it's "accepted" and "not effective" when there's a pages-long thread about a longtime member being banned. That action has certainly brought the issue to the forefront, don't you think?

What things would need to change?

Should we permit people to continue to berate and demean others for no reason? 

I'm just interested in how you think things could be changed because, frankly, I don't see any problem areas, administration-wise. The problems come from members who have an unwavering need to be dicks sometimes. I think this thread is evidence that management deals with those people.

I used to be a member of a forum (non-photography) which had very few rules. The #1 rule, however, was "Be nice". That could be both good and bad, but someone like Charlie would've been banned long ago.

That said, I would truly be interested, as would the moderating team, I'm sure, in what you think could or should be changed...


----------



## pixmedic (Nov 7, 2013)

It might be interesting to some to note that thread locks, post deletions, and member bans of any kind are only done for one reason.... 

Someone(s)  not following TPF rules. 

Ignored mod warnings are probably the #1 reason for thread lock.  A thread gets nasty, a Mod cleans it up and/or says to keep it clean, Mod gets ignored, thread continues its downward spiral and gets locked, then someone complains about overmoderation. 

If there IS a trend of locking threads and banning members here, it isnt the administration you should be looking to for culpability.


----------



## o hey tyler (Nov 7, 2013)

pixmedic said:


> It might be interesting to some to note that thread locks, post deletions, and member bans of any kind are only done for one reason....  Someone(s)  not following TPF rules.  Ignored mod warnings are probably the #1 reason for thread lock.  A thread gets nasty, a Mod cleans it up and/or says to keep it clean, Mod gets ignored, thread continues its downward spiral and gets locked, then someone complains about overmoderation.  If there IS a trend of locking threads and banning members here, it isnt the administration you should be looking to for culpability.



Real talk.


----------



## Parker219 (Nov 7, 2013)

vintagesnaps said:


> I don't know what happened in this situation but this type thing seems to be happening so often, threads being locked, posts deleted, someone being banned etc. I don't think actions like that may be as effective as they could be when getting used so much.
> 
> People have made comments about there being a culture on here and I can't help but wonder if some of what happens on here has gotten so it's become accepted as just the way it is. I know a couple of photographers who told me they used to be on here but aren't much anymore and that the site has developed 'a reputation'. I think it would be worth TPF management taking a look at why this happens so often and how things might be changed to help make the site better.



Drunk talk.


----------



## pixmedic (Nov 7, 2013)

One other thing that some people might not be aware of is that a private messages can be reported, same as a post. 
while Mods can not see PM's between members, if a member reports a PM, its sent to the reported post thread same as any other reported post where it can be reviewed by the mod team. PM's fall under the same guidelines as the rest of the forum, and if someone gets out of line in a PM, they are subject to the same punishments as if they did it in open forum. 
(assuming the PM gets reported of course)

This can sometimes lead to punishments being handed out with the forum community not knowing what happened because the infractions were done via PM and not in a thread. 
I cant say that this accounts for ALL of the inconsistencies people feel they see with the forums moderation, but i CAN say that it does account for some.


----------



## runnah (Nov 7, 2013)

pixmedic said:


> One other thing that some people might not be aware of is that a private messages can be reported, same as a post.
> while Mods can not see PM's between members, if a member reports a PM, its sent to the reported post thread same as any other reported post where it can be reviewed by the mod team. PM's fall under the same guidelines as the rest of the forum, and if someone gets out of line in a PM, they are subject to the same punishments as if they did it in open forum.
> (assuming the PM gets reported of course)
> 
> ...



Oh ****. I'd like to preemptively apologize for the content of my PM's to all of the female members and a few select males.


----------



## Overread (Nov 7, 2013)

I would like to point out that sometimes locking a thread is the only viable option. Yes we can prune out offensive posts one by one as needed, but sometimes (and it doesn't have to be the thread starter) if two or more members get into a fight the good content and the bad can be heavily mixed together in single posts. Trying to remove the offensive whilst keeping the good quickly becomes a complicated issue and often by that point even removing the content won't save the thread. Thus a lock is put into place. 

I would say that TPF did start to build itself a "reputation" but that over the last few years the mod team has expanded and done well to really bring things under control as best we can. These incidents are rare and often only involve a very tiny number of the membership - it just so happens that the small number of members sometimes corresponds to very active members on the site.


----------



## kathyt (Nov 7, 2013)

pixmedic said:


> One other thing that some people might not be aware of is that a private messages can be reported, same as a post.
> while Mods can not see PM's between members, if a member reports a PM, its sent to the reported post thread same as any other reported post where it can be reviewed by the mod team. PM's fall under the same guidelines as the rest of the forum, and if someone gets out of line in a PM, they are subject to the same punishments as if they did it in open forum.
> (assuming the PM gets reported of course)
> 
> ...


Thank god mods can't read PM's between members. I was wondering about that. I could put my last 6 months of PM's in a juicy novel and do quite well I think.


----------



## runnah (Nov 7, 2013)

kathythorson said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> > One other thing that some people might not be aware of is that a private messages can be reported, same as a post.
> ...



Chapter 1: Shameless flirting with runnah.
Chapter 2: Regret.


----------



## Justman1020 (Nov 7, 2013)

runnah said:


> kathythorson said:
> 
> 
> > pixmedic said:
> ...



I GOT THIS::

Chapter 3:: Runnahs ban
Chapter 4:: The thread that followed.


----------



## kathyt (Nov 7, 2013)

runnah said:


> kathythorson said:
> 
> 
> > pixmedic said:
> ...


Nah. No regrets runnah.


----------



## mishele (Nov 7, 2013)

Kathy sends the best dirty PMs...just sayin


----------



## kathyt (Nov 7, 2013)

mishele said:


> Kathy sends the best dirty PMs...just sayin


The introduction of the three-way PM was brilliant Mish. That might get you mod of the year.


----------



## tecboy (Nov 7, 2013)

Let's start banning people.  Let's ban photographers who want AlienBee for Christmas.  Then ban who recently bough iPad 5.  Ban all the Canon haters. But, don't ban me, I'm loyal to this forum.


----------



## astroNikon (Nov 7, 2013)

a banning free for all ?


----------



## Robin_Usagani (Nov 7, 2013)

I have met Charlie in person. He is a nice guy and friend with him on FB. I do think he is a bit harsh toward noobies. We butt heads here all the time.  I do think 60 days is a bit harsh. I was banned for 7 days and thought that was harsh.


----------



## Robin_Usagani (Nov 7, 2013)

Oh.. I did shoot my first wedding with a rebel. I did just fine.


----------



## kathyt (Nov 7, 2013)

Robin_Usagani said:


> Oh.. I did shoot my first wedding with a rebel. I did just fine.


Kit lens?


----------



## astroNikon (Nov 7, 2013)

mishele said:


> Kathy sends the best dirty PMs...just sayin



Needs more detail. please elaborate.


----------



## kathyt (Nov 7, 2013)

astroNikon said:


> mishele said:
> 
> 
> > Kathy sends the best dirty PMs...just sayin
> ...


We charge a fee.


----------



## IByte (Nov 7, 2013)

kathythorson said:


> We charge a fee.



Reciting 50 shades isn't dirty. ..dirty bird.


----------



## mishele (Nov 7, 2013)

IByte said:


> Reciting 50 shades isn't dirty. ..dirty bird.



Did Kathy read them dirty books?

BTW...Charlie introduced me to all kinds of dirty books. Lol


----------



## DarkShadow (Nov 7, 2013)

This is better then the movie theater.


----------



## IByte (Nov 7, 2013)

mishele said:


> Did Kathy read them dirty books?
> 
> BTW...Charlie introduced me to all kinds of dirty books. Lol



Lol he warped your fragile lil mind, or did he set your REAL self free?  BTW It's call free porn online Mishy.   Silly lil girl you and your hard copies .


----------



## mishele (Nov 7, 2013)

What is this "porn" you speak of?!


----------



## IByte (Nov 7, 2013)

mishele said:


> What is this "porn" you speak of?!



Oh I forgot you ladies call them "Romance" novels/movies.


----------



## tecboy (Nov 7, 2013)

I never had a negative experience with Charlie.  Some of you actually hate him, do you hate other members, too.  Do you expect them to be banned?  I think some of you provoke Charlie's behavior that led him to be banned.  No wonder there are thread lockings. You guys can't get along.


----------



## Tee (Nov 7, 2013)

terri said:


> Tee said:
> 
> 
> > spanishgirleyes said:
> ...



You are correct in that I made assumptions and for that I apologize.  My loathing for a particular member clouded my judgment.


----------



## terri (Nov 7, 2013)

> I think some of you provoke Charlie's behavior that led him to be  banned.  No wonder there are thread lockings. You guys can't get along.



Whoa there, fella.      This is not the case at all!   Newbies were targeted by Charlie, as were other groups that were previously mentioned.   Charlie acted in deliberate and aggressive ways: this may interest and entertain some people and even win him respect, but it's outside of what is permissible via the TPF guidelines.   His persistence in this regard, despite many discussions, warnings and short temp-bans earned him this longer vacation.   

In addition, some of us on the team have been doing this for many years...we know how to interpret the evolution of an argument.     I said it earlier in this thread, but I guess it bears repeating: let's keep it real.   Thanks!


----------



## usayit (Nov 7, 2013)

> You may consider his rants against newbies and amateurs &#8220;classic and epic,&#8221; but from a moderator viewpoint, they are simply disruptive, disrespectful, and not in keeping with the guidelines.



THIS ^^^

Been here a very long time.  This has always bothered me... makes the place feel like a high school where immaturity buys you popularity.  Its relatively difficult to get banned here.  I've crossed the line with a couple members a few times but in the end we keep it on topic and not personal.


----------



## IByte (Nov 7, 2013)

I gotta say he was one of the first people that welcomed me into the forum.   

He gave me some good advice(as did many others) when I posted of few of my works.  I also think he looks at the novices that are working hard to produce some great art, rather than the JWACS/RWAC(Runnah with a camera. .

Maybe he's a bit draconian in his criticism, but I guess it worked for when he was a full-time photog.


----------



## pthrift (Nov 7, 2013)

I feel like I've missed something on not knowing who charlie is; being as his ban has warranted 115 responses & most cc threads do well to have 10 responses....

Just an observation


----------



## Tailgunner (Nov 7, 2013)

terri said:


> > I think some of you provoke Charlie's behavior that led him to be  banned.  No wonder there are thread lockings. You guys can't get along.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ya, It was like Charlie was on a personal mission to weed out the weak before a Survival trip...anyone new to the forum was subject to Charlie's Boot Camp. It was a minor annoyance for me but I could see where it would really discourage new people from seeking help from the group. Hopefully Charlie will rejoin the group and able to Sugar coat things in the future.


----------



## cowleystjames (Nov 7, 2013)

Gotta say that some of the posts were almost bullying in their tone, newbies on any forum need to be handled gently if you want the forum to prosper. Everyone was a newbie at some time and mistakes get made, but we all learn.
Nobody needs bullies...


----------



## The_Traveler (Nov 7, 2013)

It is almost inevitable that people who are quite active here develop sort of a protective feeling about other even-difficult members. 
'He may be a difficult crank but he's our difficult crank.'

And, at the same time, develop a feeling of ownership towards the forum. Well, it isn't 'ours' in any real sense, just a place where someone, the owners as represented by the admins, lets us play in return for  behavior within their standards of reasonable behavior.

The Mods are tasked with enforcing these standards in a way that balances the goods of active discussion and interaction along with an encouraging atmosphere for the constant flow of new members.

I have been around, on and off, for a while and trust the good intentions of the current group of Mods and so I trust that while certain actions may be inscrutable to me, there are decent and good reasons. 

I have been a mod at two other places - one incredibly less behaved than here and one incredibly better.  With the member audience that this place draws, it works reasonably well.


----------



## ratssass (Nov 7, 2013)




----------



## JacaRanda (Nov 7, 2013)

Just not sure why it seems to be so difficult.  It has been explained very well in this thread.  

A tough, warranted, TEMPORARY, decision was handed down to someone that is well versed on the rules and regs.


----------



## JacaRanda (Nov 7, 2013)

The_Traveler said:


> It is almost inevitable that people who are quite active here develop sort of a protective feeling about other even-difficult members.
> 'He may be a difficult crank but he's our difficult crank.'
> 
> And, at the same time, develop a feeling of ownership towards the forum. Well, it isn't 'ours' in any real sense, just a place where someone, the owners as represented by the admins, lets us play in return for behavior within their standards of reasonable behavior.
> ...



Nailed it again!


----------



## kathyt (Nov 7, 2013)

Group hug.


----------



## The_Traveler (Nov 7, 2013)

I think the community here is lucky in a very specific way.
As opposed to many forums, the mods here are involved in the actual conversation about photos and thus they remain as real, non-abstract people. Second, they are willing to discuss their behavior and hear what the members are saying without getting offended or unpleasant (any more than their natural personalities ).

I have gotten my share of nasty-grams and have never noticed that there is any ongoing prejudice (except of course due to understandable jealousy about my quite obvious natural superiority to all).

This 4 page discussion, rather than leaving a nasty residue, has come out well for all. We the serfs understand how our masters, the mods, work hail and everyone understands how things work.

Now, while I am waiting for Kathy and Mishele to arrive for the anticipated group hug, I will go set up a video recorder in the bedroom.


----------



## ronlane (Nov 7, 2013)

kathythorson said:


> Group hug.




If by group, you mean, you, Mish, PR and myself. Okie dokie, lol


----------



## IByte (Nov 7, 2013)

kathythorson said:


> Group hug.



Heeelll yeah!  then the ladies can join me for pumpkin coffee


----------



## DGMPhotography (Nov 7, 2013)

So.... is this no longer a rule?


----------



## IByte (Nov 7, 2013)

The_Traveler said:


> I think the community here is lucky in a very specific way.
> As opposed to many forums, the mods here are involved in the actual conversation about photos and thus they remain as real, non-abstract people. Second, they are willing to discuss their behavior and hear what the members are saying without getting offended or unpleasant (any more than their natural personalities ).
> 
> I have gotten my share of nasty-grams and have never noticed that there is any ongoing prejudice (except of course due to understandable jealousy about my quite obvious natural superiority to all).
> ...



This man's brain parts are on fire.  But Mish can be the bad angel w/whip like accessory.  Kathy can be the good(bad) girl in white ...but with a tall frosted beer glass.


----------



## Juga (Nov 7, 2013)

IByte said:


> The_Traveler said:
> 
> 
> > I think the community here is lucky in a very specific way.
> ...



Dont forget to take a selfie of your 'O' face


----------



## pixmedic (Nov 7, 2013)

DGMPhotography said:


> So.... is this no longer a rule?
> 
> <img src="http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=59758"/>



Rule? 
It says "does not REQUIRE an explanation" it doesnt say that there definitely wouldnt be one.


----------



## IByte (Nov 7, 2013)

JacaRanda said:


> Just not sure why it seems to be so difficult.  It has been explained very well in this thread.
> 
> A tough, warranted, TEMPORARY, decision was handed down to someone that is well versed on the rules and regs.



We all know it(except for me).  And maybe it was well deserved, but it doesn't change the fact we miss our crude, fouled-mouth bad boy; who for the most part could back up his educated rants.  Even his "nemesises" miss their antagonists.


----------



## IByte (Nov 7, 2013)

Juga said:


> Dont forget to take a selfie of your 'O' face



LOL!!! If by O face you mean Mishy holding up a platter turkey legs, wings and crispy Applewood bacon!!!


----------



## mishele (Nov 7, 2013)

IByte said:


> LOL!!! If by O face you mean Mishy holding up a platter turkey legs, wings and crispy Applewood bacon!!!



Is this a fantasy of yours?! Lol


----------



## Juga (Nov 7, 2013)

IByte said:


> Juga said:
> 
> 
> > Dont forget to take a selfie of your 'O' face
> ...





mishele said:


> IByte said:
> 
> 
> > LOL!!! If by O face you mean Mishy holding up a platter turkey legs, wings and crispy Applewood bacon!!!
> ...



Females, bacon, with beer are pretty much male fantasies in general.


----------



## IByte (Nov 7, 2013)

mishele said:


> Is this a fantasy of yours?! Lol



.....maaaybe .  My mind keeps my fantasies simple. Beer, women, food, repeat . 


 Like watching you and special K having a pillow fight of good vs evil!


----------



## kathyt (Nov 7, 2013)

ronlane said:


> kathythorson said:
> 
> 
> > Group hug.
> ...


Before any hugs are given I now require a signed consent form that will go over the potential risks involved with hugging, touching, and/or seeing me in person. This form must be signed _prior _to any acts of hugging.


----------



## ronlane (Nov 7, 2013)

kathythorson said:


> ronlane said:
> 
> 
> > kathythorson said:
> ...



Send me the form and I'll have my lawyer look it over


----------



## IByte (Nov 7, 2013)

ronlane said:


> Send me the form and I'll have my lawyer look it over



Yup looks like everythings in order...except it needs to state in plain speak:

The hugger(Kathy) is not responsible for the emotional impact of the huggie(me).

Also K it needs to state what you are wearing, and I drink Sam Adams and or scotch ale.


----------



## astroNikon (Nov 7, 2013)

what's the "exact" definition of hugging ?

of can we use our own definition ?


----------



## HughGuessWho (Nov 7, 2013)

kathythorson said:


> Before any hugs are given I now require a signed consent form that will go over the potential risks involved with hugging, touching, and/or seeing me in person. This form must be signed prior to any acts of hugging.



Don't forget the model release and who retain the rights to the pictures.


----------



## kathyt (Nov 7, 2013)

IByte said:


> ronlane said:
> 
> 
> > Send me the form and I'll have my lawyer look it over
> ...


Wives, girlfriends, lovers, dogs, cats, and anyone else 18 or older, living in the household, must sign as well. Just covering my bases here.


----------



## bentcountershaft (Nov 7, 2013)

Does this form cover all physical contact or only hugging?


----------



## The_Traveler (Nov 7, 2013)

kathythorson said:


> Just covering my bases here.



Damn, I was hoping to get to cover at least parts of your bases.


----------



## ronlane (Nov 7, 2013)

The_Traveler said:


> kathythorson said:
> 
> 
> > Just covering my bases here.
> ...



Now ^that's funny, I don't care who you are  !!!!!!


----------



## IByte (Nov 7, 2013)

kathythorson said:


> IByte said:
> 
> 
> > ronlane said:
> ...



Well a group hug DOES imply a minimum of 3 or more people....the household could act like a single entity 8)


----------



## IByte (Nov 7, 2013)

The_Traveler said:


> kathythorson said:
> 
> 
> > Just covering my bases here.
> ...



No worries Traveler, her bases are in good hands 8)


----------



## DGMPhotography (Nov 7, 2013)

pixmedic said:


> DGMPhotography said:
> 
> 
> > So.... is this no longer a rule?
> ...



Yeah, but then my thread was closed after that comment, so I figured it was a rule?


----------



## Juga (Nov 7, 2013)

DGMPhotography said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> > DGMPhotography said:
> ...



Sorry but what is your point? Do you want them to close this thread because they closed yours? It sounds like something you should use the PM feature for.


----------



## pixmedic (Nov 7, 2013)

DGMPhotography said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> > DGMPhotography said:
> ...


 
you keep bringing up your thread that got closed and im not really sure where you want to go with that. 
I honestly cant say much on your thread because i was not a mod then and have no information as to why that decision was made. 
Maybe the thread didn't stay as civil. maybe there was just a general feeling of "unrest" about it...I really dont know.
there ARE rules against "flounce" threads, yet not every one is closed.  For the most part, threads are locked after some bit of discussion with the other mods, unless the thread just gets out of hand to fast.  I have even seen threads locked, then UNLOCKED after mod discussion. it just depends on who is on, and the nature of the thread and its responses. 
this isnt an exact science, and we dont have hard coded algorithms that tell us exactly which threads to lock, and which people to ban.  
we have the forum rules, the FAQ's, our gut feelings, and of course, discussion with other mods. 

sometimes we err on the side of caution and it looks like over-moderation. sometimes times we let things go that are technically against the rules, but it might be a delicate or important topic and the discussion is staying civil. we are only human. mostly. 
if someone has an issue with something a moderator has done, the best thing to do is either PM that mod (or another mod) for clarification OR report the thread and make the issue known so ALL the moderators have a chance to see it and weigh in on the decision that was made. 
If we DO make a mistake, or make a bad call, bringing it up long after the fact does nothing to help the situation. 

there are probably a few people here that can attest to me having NO problem at all addressing issues and decisions honestly with them via PM, and keeping them informed on things that they feel are affecting them when they have asked me to. I honestly don't know what else to do, but i am certainly open to any suggestions that would benefit the forum as a whole.


----------



## JacaRanda (Nov 7, 2013)

Ah, things are coming back together. Peace - Love - Happiness - Flirting - Sam Adams.


----------



## HughGuessWho (Nov 7, 2013)

Juga said:


> Sorry but what is your point? Do you want them to close this thread because they closed yours? It sounds like something you should use the PM feature for.


I guess I am just getting slow in my old age, but I don't get it either. 

Thread gets locked = B1tching
Thread doesn't get locked = B1tching
Someone gets banned = B1tching
Someone doesn't get banned = B1tching

And on and on...

Maybe there is a moral to this story, but still trying to figure it out.


----------



## JacaRanda (Nov 7, 2013)

HughGuessWho said:


> Juga said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry but what is your point? Do you want them to close this thread because they closed yours? It sounds like something you should use the PM feature for.
> ...



Human nature (Mostly).  LMAO


----------



## IByte (Nov 7, 2013)

Oo make m* a god...er I mean mod!!.  I have enough GB juice running through my house to make even Bill Gates nerd sploosh!!!



Can't we go back to beer, bacon and women?  I was in a happy place


----------



## DGMPhotography (Nov 7, 2013)

pixmedic said:


> DGMPhotography said:
> 
> 
> > pixmedic said:
> ...



Sorry, I didn't mean offense or anything, I was just curious why it may have happened. Trust me, I bear no resentment towards John, and am not planning planning revenge... yet. 

It's just there wasn't really any discussion, it was just closed. Here's the thread for reference if anyone's interested. 

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/off-topic-chat/312019-bynx-gone.html


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## pixmedic (Nov 7, 2013)

I remember Bynx. and his HDR "critique".  he was very.....temperamental when it came to HDR. he was good at it though (if you liked his style)
and he did hand out a lot of processing suggestions and techniques to people wanting to get into HDR. 
There was a lot of emotional threads involving Bynx then, and its possible there was some behind the scenes stuff going on too. 
I would imagine that with the flames still stoked pretty high, your thread just seemed like more gasoline for it. 
Other than that, John would have to weigh in on it himself.


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## Juga (Nov 7, 2013)

IByte said:


> Oo make m* a god...er I mean mod!!.  I have enough GB juice running through my house to make even Bill Gates nerd sploosh!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Can't we go back to beer, bacon and women?  I was in a happy place



http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/off-topic-chat/344063-beer-bacon-women-men-ladies.html

Here we go!


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## ronlane (Nov 7, 2013)

DGMPhotography said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> > DGMPhotography said:
> ...



Dude, let it go.


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## IByte (Nov 7, 2013)

Juga said:


> http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/off-topic-chat/344063-beer-bacon-women-men-ladies.html
> 
> Here we go!



...motha!#&#'! $ jackpot!!!


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## minicoop1985 (Nov 7, 2013)

I love lamp.


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## The_Traveler (Nov 7, 2013)

IByte said:


> The_Traveler said:
> 
> 
> > kathythorson said:
> ...



I was hoping that a couple of those good hands would be mine.


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## tirediron (Nov 7, 2013)

DGMPhotography said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> > DGMPhotography said:
> ...


Different thread, different time, different circumstances.  What happened with another thread is not relevant to this thread, and I don't see any need to discuss it in public.


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## cbarnard7 (Nov 7, 2013)

I never understand how these threads get to be so long...it's not a big deal, really. Back to the PHOTOS!


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## usayit (Nov 7, 2013)

Mods... why even entertain such responses with attempts at explanation?  All it does is open up yourselves for criticism from those that don't agrehave e.  You know what?  There will always be disagreement.  

This is not a democracy.  This is a privately run organization.  Just like in the real work force, employer's can terminate without reason at any time.  In this case close a thread and ban because of disruption.  The rest of us only have the decision to stay or leeave.


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## terri (Nov 7, 2013)

usayit said:


> Mods... why even entertain such responses with attempts at explanation?  All it does is open up yourselves for criticism from those that don't agrehave e.  You know what?  There will always be disagreement.
> 
> This is not a democracy.  This is a privately run organization.  Just like in the real work force, employer's can terminate without reason at any time.  In this case close a thread and ban because of disruption.  The rest of us only have the decision to stay or leeave.



Someone (Lew?) made reference to the fact that we are also members here who like to chat and post pics and have fun...so it's not like we feel the need to defend ourselves, so if folks want to ask a question or vent a little, it's cool.      You've been around long enough to know Chase ran it that way, too.   I've been a mod since those days and learned a lot.   That's why it is painful to see us get called gestapo and the Man or hear that we just enjoy cracking the whip arbitrarily.   None of that is true.   

So...unless it's special circumstances...it's okay, as long as no one beats up the member in question, _or_ the mod team.     I will defend both.  We don't want to have an "us against them" mindset here, as much as it can be avoided!   :heart:


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## IByte (Nov 7, 2013)

terri said:


> Someone (Lew?) made reference to the fact that we are also members here who like to chat and post pics and have fun...so it's not like we feel the need to defend ourselves, so if folks want to ask a question or vent a little, it's cool.      You've been around long enough to know Chase ran it that way, too.   I've been a mod since those days and learned a lot.   That's why it is painful to see us get called gestapo and the Man or hear that we just enjoy cracking the whip arbitrarily.   None of that is true.
> 
> So...unless it's special circumstances...it's okay, as long as no one beats up the member in question, or the mod team.     I will defend both.  We don't want to have an "us against them" mindset here, as much as it can be avoided!   :heart:




Weren't we talking hugs and not drugs?


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## terri (Nov 7, 2013)

IByte said:


> terri said:
> 
> 
> > Someone (Lew?) made reference to the fact that we are also members here who like to chat and post pics and have fun...so it's not like we feel the need to defend ourselves, so if folks want to ask a question or vent a little, it's cool.      You've been around long enough to know Chase ran it that way, too.   I've been a mod since those days and learned a lot.   That's why it is painful to see us get called gestapo and the Man or hear that we just enjoy cracking the whip arbitrarily.   None of that is true.
> ...



Absolutely!      You did note I was replying to usayit, that's all - right?    

Carry on!


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## michael9000000 (Nov 7, 2013)




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## texkam (Nov 7, 2013)

Maybe this thread will still be going when Charlie returns.


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## usayit (Nov 7, 2013)

terri said:


> So...unless it's special circumstances...it's okay, as long as no one beats up the member in question, _or_ the mod team.     I will defend both.  We don't want to have an "us against them" mindset here, as much as it can be avoided!   :heart:



Understood..  its nice to know mod team is ok with it.

Every time we have a banning of an individual that obviously crossed the line (often deserving of the banning), we get these long threads that simply elevate said person's status as if being a bully and immature is being rewarded in of itself.  From where I stand, it lessens the purpose of the action taken against the individual.  Simply stating that "individual violated the agreed rules of this forum on multiple occasions" and leaving at that would certainly avoid the situation.   All those involved know the details of what happened.  Threads like these simply spark involvement from those that have no business.  In part out of curiosity... "What happened? I want details? thread?" and in part (often misguided) loyalty.. "WTF he was great!  The TPF mods are <insert comment here>".

I've seen this type of reaction on numerous occasions.  I simply took this moment to point out my observation and hint at an alternative.   The TPF and its community during Chase's tenure was certainly a VERY different community and a different approach is certainly an option.

I understand you have been a moderator for a very long time and its certainly your prerogative and decision. 

good day and thank you.


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## astroNikon (Nov 8, 2013)

(as a joke) maybe we need a "get a CLUE" short term ban for some newbies

such as this, (disclaimer) though of course, not recommending this particular thread as it would identify a particular user.  But as a potential example.
http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/nikon-lenses/344051-how-bad-24-70-s-camera-shake.html




To make it positive, call it "the Bacon Ban"
:lmao:


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## kathyt (Nov 8, 2013)

All I know is that from now on all of my original threads are going to include "by Kathy Thorson."


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## IByte (Nov 8, 2013)

kathythorson said:


> All I know is that from now on all of my original threads are going to include "by Kathy Thorson."



Lol what are you going watermark your threads now?....sooo 2005.lol


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## astroNikon (Nov 8, 2013)

IByte said:


> kathythorson said:
> 
> 
> > All I know is that from now on all of my original threads are going to include "by Kathy Thorson."
> ...



Yeah, I don't understand the reasoning for that





*by astroNikon
Do not read per Copyright and Patented pending 2013*


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## Steve5D (Nov 8, 2013)

tecboy said:


> I never had a negative experience with Charlie.  Some of you actually hate him, do you hate other members, too.  Do you expect them to be banned?  I think some of you provoke Charlie's behavior that led him to be banned.  No wonder there are thread lockings. You guys can't get along.



It takes two to tango, Chief.

I don't see anyone here who "hates" him, "actually" or otherwise. Could you identify those people?


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## kathyt (Nov 8, 2013)

astroNikon said:


> IByte said:
> 
> 
> > kathythorson said:
> ...


Yeah, just incase you can't read my name right underneath.


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## IByte (Nov 8, 2013)

kathythorson said:


> Yeah, just incase you can't read my name right underneath.



I'm afraid as a jock, pictures are a lot easier for me to understand lol.


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## Kolia (Nov 8, 2013)

pthrift said:


> I feel like I've missed something on not knowing who charlie is; being as his ban has warranted 115 responses & most cc threads do well to have 10 responses....
> 
> Just an observation



You didn't miss much. 

Basically, the guy was knowledgeable but consistently acted in a way that would have had his face punched in, in any real live setting.

I can recognize the value of an individual's contribution. But nobody has enough knowledge to outweigh the collective knowledge of the rest of the forum so that's not really a loss.


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## manaheim (Nov 8, 2013)

usayit said:


> Mods... why even entertain such responses with attempts at explanation? All it does is open up yourselves for criticism from those that don't agrehave e. You know what? There will always be disagreement.
> 
> This is not a democracy. This is a privately run organization. Just like in the real work force, employer's can terminate without reason at any time. In this case close a thread and ban because of disruption. The rest of us only have the decision to stay or leeave.



Totally agree. 

BUT... TPF is a happy fuzzy friendly family place and this kind of back/forth isn't encouraged, but neither is it discouraged.

It's a cultural element about TPF that is part of what makes this place what it is.


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## ratssass (Nov 8, 2013)

Kolia said:


> pthrift said:
> 
> 
> > I feel like I've missed something on not knowing who charlie is; being as his ban has warranted 115 responses & most cc threads do well to have 10 responses....
> ...




yet this is tolerable?


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## shefjr (Nov 8, 2013)

ratssass said:


> yet this is tolerable?



I thought the same thing.


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## Kolia (Nov 8, 2013)

ratssass said:


> Kolia said:
> 
> 
> > pthrift said:
> ...



I'm simply putting things in perspective for the members who haven't had the opportunity to experience the events that led to the current situation. 

I don't see "calling it like it is" from behind a keyboard very impressive. I'll grant you that my previous post could fit in the category tho. 

I honestly believe the man is a good guy. It is easy to loose perspective and be misunderstood online. We were beyond that in many instances with different users. 

Users need to understand that bullying is not accepted. How many users posted half a dozen times and never came back ? Why do you think that is ? Did they get the answer to their "What DSLR to get ?" And never had any other questions ? I doubt that. 

The suspension was not unwarranted.

I applaud the moderators' initiative of the last few weeks.  The atmosphere has changed for the better. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DarkShadow (Nov 9, 2013)

Charlie has been very helpful pointing out mistakes in my photos and also commented when I got a good shot. He makes me laugh some times with funny comments nothing insulting to any one. All in all he has been fair to me. Heck if he is ever in CT I would go tequila drinking with him and I know he likes tequila.


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## Steve5D (Nov 10, 2013)

ratssass said:


> Kolia said:
> 
> 
> > pthrift said:
> ...



Yet "what" is tolerable?


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## HughGuessWho (Nov 10, 2013)

Steve5D said:


> Yet "what" is tolerable?


I took it that they were referring to the "had his face punched in" comment.


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## Steve5D (Nov 11, 2013)

HughGuessWho said:


> Steve5D said:
> 
> 
> > Yet "what" is tolerable?
> ...



Oh.

It is what it is.

Some people believe that decorum is unwarranted and unnecessary. Those people usually end up getting banned...


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## MiFleur (Nov 11, 2013)

The experience I had with Charlie is a very good one, his comments have been pertinent and right to the point like with many others, I did not search or try to find the offensive posts. 
I would not want to encourage negative comments, but IMO if you draw a line and for your good comments you have a +3 or +5 and then a -3 and -5 for negative comments , as long as you balance the positive and the negative you are doing fine, the abuse is when you have used all your credit. That way people that comment with "cool shot" statement remain at 0 and are never banned.  I have also seen some offended people leaving the forum, and frankly I would not do anything to bring them back, I do not wish this forum to become a place for an ego trip, it is place to learn and share. The tone should be polite and I agree that sometimes the moderators have to keep members in check after all it is a public place.


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## Kolia (Nov 11, 2013)

Steve5D said:


> HughGuessWho said:
> 
> 
> > Steve5D said:
> ...



I agree. 

Interestingly, "calling it like it is" isn't perceived the same way depending on who wrote the comment. 

When quoting for reference tho, it is always better to quote a full sentence so that all can understand the actual meaning of the sentence. I apologies if anybody was offended by my earlier post.  I suggest re-reading to understand there were no threats involved nor any direct attack to anybody in particular. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Kolia (Nov 11, 2013)

MiFleur said:


> The experience I had with Charlie is a very good one, his comments have been pertinent and right to the point like with many others, I did not search or try to find the offensive posts.
> I would not want to encourage negative comments, but IMO if you draw a line and for your good comments you have a +3 or +5 and then a -3 and -5 for negative comments , as long as you balance the positive and the negative you are doing fine, the abuse is when you have used all your credit. That way people that comment with "cool shot" statement remain at 0 and are never banned.  I have also seen some offended people leaving the forum, and frankly I would not do anything to bring them back, I do not wish this forum to become a place for an ego trip, it is place to learn and share. The tone should be polite and I agree that sometimes the moderators have to keep members in check after all it is a public place.



Doesn't such a system allow for me to be nice to you and a total jerk to somebody else and avoid being moderated ?

I think that what a new user should understand from this topic is that moderators will allow some "robust" discussion amongst established (none new) members but will intervene if things get out of control.

Am I wrong ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## HughGuessWho (Nov 11, 2013)

Kolia said:


> I agree.  Interestingly, "calling it like it is" isn't perceived the same way depending on who wrote the comment.  When quoting for reference tho, it is always better to quote a full sentence so that all can understand the actual meaning of the sentence. I apologies if anybody was offended by my earlier post.  I suggest re-reading to understand there were no threats involved nor any direct attack to anybody in particular.  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



If you were referring to my quote, I was neither offended or concerned about your comment. I was simply clarifying the follow up statement.


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## terri (Nov 11, 2013)

Guys, we're only going to let this thread live as long as it does not devolve into taking sides and getting one's hackles up, or re-living past hurts.   

In fact it may be time to close this thing, since there has been ample time for anyone who cared to add a comment.


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## astroNikon (Nov 11, 2013)

terri said:


> Guys, we're only going to let this thread live as long as it does not devolve into taking sides and getting one's hackles up, or re-living past hurts.
> 
> In fact it may be time to close this thing, since there has been ample time for anyone who cared to add a comment.








just thought it was mildly appropriate :lmao:


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## HughGuessWho (Nov 11, 2013)

terri said:


> Guys, we're only going to let this thread live as long as it does not devolve into taking sides and getting one's hackles up, or re-living past hurts.  In fact it may be time to close this thing, since there has been ample time for anyone who cared to add a comment.



I'm surprised that it hasn't gotten nasty yet. But it is certainly a breeding ground for an outbreak.


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## terri (Nov 11, 2013)

Agreed.   I'm closing it.    

Thanks to all for your comments!


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