# What to consider when selling 'rights' to a photograph



## ottor

There was a new building almost completed, and I took it upon myself to go over one night and take a couple of pictures of it....   The turned out beautiful and I approached them to see if they wanted any for their walls...   They didn't want any prints, but they were interested in one that they want to purchase the rights to for brochures, fliers, and ads...

I've charged for a shoot fee, I've charged for prints, but I've never charged for one photograph for this purpose before..

Where do I begin, and what's a fair price ??     It's a brand new hospital and they would use this for all future publications...

tks,

r


----------



## iflynething

I would see how much they are willing to spend on a picture.....

You can go 2 routes:

1) Unlimited (well with your stipulations of "use")
        -They use the image any amount of times with just about anything but you could limit it to just using it for brocures, only for posters in the front lobby, etc. This would be much more from them in the beginning.


2) Limited use
         -Less money up front but you directly spell out what they can use it for. You say, well if you want ONLY to print poster size pictures then I would charge them only to print a certain amount. Maybe they want to have a 20x30 in the front lobby. 

There are alot of factors. Either way, I would suggest a couple thousand dollars for usage of your picture.

What's the picture look like anyways! 

~Michael~


----------



## KmH

ottor said:


> There was a new building almost completed, and I took it upon myself to go over one night and take a couple of pictures of it.... The turned out beautiful and I approached them to see if they wanted any for their walls... They didn't want any prints, but they were interested in one that they want to purchase the rights to for brochures, fliers, and ads...
> 
> I've charged for a shoot fee, I've charged for prints, but I've never charged for one photograph for this purpose before..
> 
> Where do I begin, and what's a fair price ?? It's a brand new hospital and they would use this for all future publications...
> 
> tks,
> 
> r


Commercial photography is priced by usage (use licensing).

Here are some of the questions you need to get answers too:

1- Is this local, national or international

2- Book, magazine, billboard, brochure, television, website etc...

3- How many will be printed up

4- 1/4 page, 1/2 page or full page

5- Is this for the cover, inside front cover, inside with the text, inside back cover or back cover

6- How long will you require use of image

How much each use costs depends on the number of uses (10,000 brochures/ 50,000 brochures?), size of the usage (1/4 page, 1/2 page, full page, cover?) in a specific time frame, usually a year.

Use licenses are typically also limited to specific geographical areas, city, state, region, country, continent, hemisphere, etc.

Commercial photographers use software like fotoQuote Pro 6 for guidance.
www.cradoc.com

you can get some use licensing guidance at www.ASMP.org click on "Business Resources" there on the left and then click on pricing.


----------



## webmaster705

I agree first see how much they are going to spend on their project or compaign, then charge them accordingly, right now chrage little less as you are new to have more loyal customer


----------



## Phranquey

KmH said:


> Commercial photography is priced by usage (use licensing).


 
I think what ottor is asking is that the hospital wants to outright purchase the rights to the photo itself, not just licensing for an individual publication.


Basically, you need to realize that once you sell the rights to one of your photos.... that's it, it's gone. Most photographers don't care to do this, and will make their rights prohibitively expensive, as they would rather sell single-use licenses to create a steady income stream from that photo. If you are willing to sell your right, just make sure it is worth it in the longer run. If they are planning on using that photo as a cover shot for all of their pamphlets, ad books, correspondence, etc, there is a significant value to that shot.


----------



## KmH

In that case the image is likely worth at least a couple of thousand $$$, sight unseen.



> Basically, you need to realize that once you sell the rights to one of your photos.... that's it, it's gone.


I don't think you understand how selling photography works.

It would depend on what "rights" you sold. 

In the US when a photographer makes an image they instantly become the copyright owner of that image. Copyright is a bundle of rights, not just one.

You can sell those rights piecemeal, and for a limited period of time, and still retain full ownership of the copyright so you can sell the same image to other users.

Many businesses and organizations are having a field day taking advantage of unsuspecting, inexperienced photographers willing to sell rights to their images for a mere fraction of their real value, because the so many of those photographers don't have a clue what that value is.

The businesses and organizations do know that value, and if they can get a neophyte to give up their rights for fractions of a penny on the dollar, they will laugh all the way to the bank to deposit the huge savings.


----------



## Phranquey

KmH said:


> You can sell those rights piecemeal, and for a limited period of time, and still retain full ownership of the copyright so you can sell the same image to other users.


 
:er:  Umm... did you read my whole paragraph, or just the first sentence??  We're saying the same thing, and arguing about it.... 


"Basically, you need to realize that once you sell the rights to one of your photos.... that's it, it's gone. Most photographers don't care to do this, and will make their rights prohibitively expensive, _*as they would rather sell single-use licenses to create a steady income stream from that photo*_. If you are willing to sell your right, just make sure it is worth it in the longer run. If they are planning on using that photo as a cover shot for all of their pamphlets, ad books, correspondence, etc, there is a significant value to that shot."


----------



## KmH

Ooops! :blushing: I think you're right. Sorry.


----------



## merianne

Hi I'm new to this forum, Just wanted to ask wat the protocol is if for example you do a studio shoot for a local singer who is going to use those images in advertising and promotional purposes. Do they still need to purchse copyrights from you?


----------



## tirediron

merianne said:


> Hi I'm new to this forum, Just wanted to ask wat the protocol is if for example you do a studio shoot for a local singer who is going to use those images in advertising and promotional purposes. Do they still need to purchse copyrights from you?


Welcome; can I suggest that you start a new thread posing this question rather than risk de-railing this thread?


----------



## Christie Photo

ottor said:


> Where do I begin, and what's a fair price ??     It's a brand new hospital and they would use this for all future publications...



Well....  if I was in the area, they could commission me to do the shot for right about $375, providing I'd finish inside an hour.  The only rights I would reserve is to use the image for self-promotion (my web site, display prints and such).

Since you shot this purely on spec, I'd be surprised it they offer you much more than $150 or so.

-Pete


----------



## Christie Photo

KmH said:


> In that case the image is likely worth at least a couple of thousand $$$, sight unseen.



Gee, Keith.  Is there any chance I could get you to rep for me?  

-Pete


----------



## ottor

Hi Pete...

We're not too far off - I asked $400 and got it..  (You always wonder if you asked enough!)  So far I've seen it in some of their Webcasts and a brochure available at the Hospital's front desk.


----------



## Christie Photo

ottor said:


> Hi Pete...
> 
> We're not too far off - I asked $400 and got it..  (You always wonder if you asked enough!)  So far I've seen it in some of their Webcasts and a brochure available at the Hospital's front desk.



Atta boy!

I really think you got pretty much all there was to get.  Much more than that, they likely would have paid for the "two in the bush."

-Pete


----------



## orljustin

Phranquey said:


> KmH said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can sell those rights piecemeal, and for a limited period of time, and still retain full ownership of the copyright so you can sell the same image to other users.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :er:  Umm... did you read my whole paragraph, or just the first sentence??  We're saying the same thing, and arguing about it....
> 
> "Basically, you need to realize that once you sell the rights to one of your photos.... that's it, it's gone. Most photographers don't care to do this, and will make their rights prohibitively expensive, _*as they would rather sell single-use licenses to create a steady income stream from that photo*_. If you are willing to sell your right, just make sure it is worth it in the longer run. If they are planning on using that photo as a cover shot for all of their pamphlets, ad books, correspondence, etc, there is a significant value to that shot."
Click to expand...


Your sentence should read "once you sell the *copyright* to one of your photos".  Current wording is not clear.


----------

