# When will it get better?!



## LMP87 (May 12, 2014)

Any advice on how to make a business out of photography? Seems like it never works out for the better?!
Anything will help!


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## Braineack (May 12, 2014)

how would you make _any _business work?


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## vintagesnaps (May 12, 2014)

American Society of Media Photographers has business resources for photographers.


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## minicoop1985 (May 12, 2014)

Check out the Aspiring Professionals forum. Also, poke around the general shop talk forum. There's a lot of possibilities to make a business out of photography, but there's also a lot of drawbacks. It will help you understand those drawbacks and possibilities and if professional photography is really for you.


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## W.Fovall (May 13, 2014)

the key is to have people give you money in exchange of taking pictures... hope this helps..


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## hamlet (May 13, 2014)

I've never thought of it. I don't consider my work valuable enough for people other than myself, so i just offer it for free just for the experience.


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## AceCo55 (May 13, 2014)

My first reaction was ...

if this person is asking about "how to make a business out of photography", why is it being posted in the "Beginner's Forum"??
If they are a "beginner" then they shouldn't be trying to make a business out of photographer just yet.

if this person NOT a beginner and is ready to start a photography business, why would they post in the "Beginner's Forum".
Shouldn't they be posting in the "General Shop Talk" forum?

Either way, something doesn't add up here


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## SCraig (May 13, 2014)

My advice:  Ignore the fact that your friends and family think you're great, accumulate a few years of experience, a few hundred thousand photographs, and a double-handful of college-level classes in photography, art, and business management.


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## JoeW (May 13, 2014)

LMP87 said:


> Any advice on how to make a business out of photography? Seems like it never works out for the better?!
> Anything will help!



Pretty much the same way you make a business out of growing flowers or being a wedding planner or training dogs or repairing cars.  You need a business plan.  You need a niche.  You need to network like crazy and establish a great set of connections with "non-client influentials" (i.e.: people who talk to a lot of potential clients and will consistently sing your praises).  Most of all, you need a competitive advantage.  As Jack Welch (former CEO of GE) used to say:  "if you don't have a competitive advantage, don't compete."  Having a camera, some nice pictures, a passion for it, and a low price does not constitute a competitive advantage.  It puts you in the same situation as several million college or HS grads.


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## agp (May 13, 2014)

I think there are two ways. One is the traditional way of starting any business, big or small - business plans, business plans, business plans. Network, working with banks for funding, etc.

Another way is to just get more recognition and publicity through forums, Flickr, 500px, etc - much like networking. Start with some pro bono projects. If Matt Lauer won't let you shoot his wedding anniversary in the Hamptons for free, shoot for a charitable/no-profit organization.

That niche thing is also very important. There are a lot of people who can shoot better than you, advertise better than you, and charge less, but what can you offer that others cannot?


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## astroNikon (May 13, 2014)

LMP87 said:


> Any advice on how to make a business out of photography? Seems like it never works out for the better?!
> Anything will help!



I've seen this alot (once is enough) on this site of, say a "pro" wedding photographer post pics here and they are over exposed, out of focus, etc, etc, etc.  (cavaet - I've never shot a wedding or many people for that matter, and I'm no where near a pro).
So the first thing is to be realistic about your abilities.  Thus you need to get "real" feedback on your photography skills.  The first big thing to kill a business is not having the skills to perform that business.  Getting "emotional support" from family and friends who will always support anyone in any endeavor is not a good first step.

Also, as mentioned, if people will pay for your photos (excluding friends/family), you've taken a good step forward.

Business planning, as mentioned above, is as important.  Get a proper, thorough and complete business plan together. You have to know your taxes you have to pay, how to expense expenses properly to maximize your state and federal & income/business taxes, fees, et all.  Pay for tax expert to help you understand this.

In the above, bank loan was mentioned.  Be careful.  For some odd reason people's first endeavor in a business they go get a bank loan and for some reason they never calculate (monthly revenue - bank loan) into the equation.   Yes, you have to pay back a bank loan .. monthly, per the contract .. a legal binding contract.

And then marketing / portfolio.  The pros here now how much of their particular business, in their particular location, for their particular genre(s) .. and how much that all costs.

Equipment.  There's many different opinions on equipment.  Some say anyone can take a great photo with a base camera, others say to get it right you need to control the light, have sufficient lighting and diffusion equipment, camera bodies, etc

But there's many that will provide great input on the specifics here.
Good luck


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## slackercruster (May 13, 2014)

OP, there are easier ways to make $ than being a photographer. If you must forge ahead just keep putting yourself out there. Either you will eventually make it or not. 

I work 100% for free. I have advertised all over. I have solicited work in person. I give out free 11 x 14 and 13 x 19 prints and full discs of hi-res, unwatermarked photos. Even so, I have a terrible track record for getting free work. If I was in biz, I'd declare my biz a total and absolute failure. So I can only imagine how tough it is when you are asking to be paid. These photogs that make their entire living at taking pix are gods to me! 

Good luck!


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## tirediron (May 13, 2014)

What's the difference between a photographer and a large cheese pizza?  The pizza can feed a family of four!

It would help greatly if you told us where you were business-wise; what you've done, what has and has not worked and link to your website.


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## robbins.photo (May 13, 2014)

First, you need a big sign, a busy intersection - and a chicken suit.

Lol


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## Braineack (May 13, 2014)

robbins.photo said:


> First, you need a big sign, a busy intersection - and a chicken suit.
> 
> Lol



dont give away my trade secrets!


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## LMP87 (May 13, 2014)

robbins.photo said:


> First, you need a big sign, a busy intersection - and a chicken suit.
> 
> Lol




 died.


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## AmberAtLoveAndInk (May 13, 2014)

You guys are being mean lol. Though I can understand why, one cannot simply ask how to make a business out of photography and expect 100,000 strangers on the internet to not be harsh.. anyway, to the OP:
Someone mentioned going to school and taking classes and many have suggested accumulating years worth of photos.. I have to disagree. I myself turned to photography as a hobby that could keep me sane from the 2 year old monster I look over everyday as a SAHM. Maybe it is different for me because I have had a background in the arts but I learned quickly. I consumed every how-to/do-it-yourself book there was available on the internet for small business and took many FREE webinars on photoshop, lightroom and general editing  programs. I joined the forum and "opened up shop" to those who wanted to pay for my work while still in the learning ranks. I am STILL in the learning ranks, like many pros here will probably admit, we are ALL still learning. Especially digital, since it's swift changes come from no where and we are expected to soak it up. 

Here are a few things I think people overlook when starting their own photography business: 

1. A website. Do you know how to encode on Adobe Dreamweaver? Do you even know how to upload new content to your webhost? Do you even know what a webhost is? 
I programmed my whole site and self taught for about a year before I was happy with it's appearance. It's still "under construction." If you aren't interested in learning yourself, hope you have your piggy bank handy to hand over to a web designer. 

2. You are investing in a camera/business system, not just buying a camera and ready to take on the world. You will get tired of your gear, you will learn that the kit lens is garbage and you will have to shell out quite a bit of cash to pick up one worth using "professionally", you will realize your camera is outdated, resulting in more money. You will have to buy business cards, probably will have to learn a few things in photoshop to customize your own or settle for generic default cards like on vistaprint.com. You will (or at least you should for legal purposes) certify your business and give it a tax ID, you need to make sure your business name isn't taken and follow the according procedures for that. You'll also need various camera bags for gigs and cleaning supplies to keep your gear ship shape. You'll probably need to look into professional looking packaging for delivering your goods, unles it's pick-up only. You'll also need to be able to talk to people comfortably and have a good presence on social media. 
99.9% of my business is generated by word of mouth, the other 00.1% is random Google hits. 

3. Have a plan, do you know your prices? What you want to offer? Prints, digital files? You'll have to do the math and see how much you will need to charge to cover your expenses in gear and travel if need be. Are your numbers for making a profit looking too high to justify your beginner work? Then you should probably start off by doing freebies or extremely discounted sessions to beef your portfolio up. Speaking of which, you'll need a portfolio too. No one is going to hire you without looking at your previous work first. 

4. Last one I promise, though there are about 300 other steps that I have skipped for time sake. You need to learn how to use your equipment and use it well. No more full auto. You can use it this way if you please... just don't be disappointed when the pinterest images you were trying to re-create fall short. 


All in all, it's a pain in the ass and I wish you all the luck in the world. It's a great hobby and can be a great job too. Difference is, I'm not depending on my hobby to pay my bills, my husband does that, my hobby pays for all my new shoes


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## imagemaker46 (May 13, 2014)

Buy a camera, learn how to use the camera, get business cards, create a website, use the camera and get better, figure out what you want to shoot, I would guess, portraits, babies, weddings, get really good at shooting this stuff for free, build a portfolio, add 10-15 great images to your website,  waste money advertising.  

Decide to just enjoy photography as a hobby.  It won't get any easier.


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## robbins.photo (May 13, 2014)

AmberAtLoveAndInk said:


> You guys are being mean lol.



Hey now, don't knock the chicken suit idea until you've tried it.  That's all I'm saying.. lol


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## KmH (May 13, 2014)

There re 3 main types of photography business -Retail, Commercial, Editorial.
Each has a different business model and pricing structure.

Here are some resources that offer more specific information:

Starting & Managing a Business | SBA.gov
Free Small Business Advice | How-to Resources | Tools | Templates | SCORE

Photography Business Secrets: The Savvy Photographer's Guide to Sales, Marketing, and More
Going Pro: How to Make the Leap from Aspiring to Professional Photographer

A Digital Photographer's Guide to Model Releases: Making the Best Business Decisions with Your Photos of People, Places and Things
How To Make Money with Digital Photography (A Lark Photography Book)

Chasing the Light: Improving Your Photography with Available Light (Voices That Matter)
Direction & Quality of Light: Your Key to Better Portrait Photography Anywhere
Professional Portrait Retouching Techniques for Photographers Using Photoshop (Voices That Matter)

On-Camera Flash Techniques for Digital Wedding and Portrait Photography
Off-Camera Flash: Techniques for Digital Photographers


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## AmberAtLoveAndInk (May 13, 2014)

robbins.photo said:


> AmberAtLoveAndInk said:
> 
> 
> > You guys are being mean lol.
> ...



chicken suit... Mehhhh. Bikini car wash i think. Preferably with extremely hairy men modeling the suits. Perfect photo op!


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## robbins.photo (May 13, 2014)

AmberAtLoveAndInk said:


> robbins.photo said:
> 
> 
> > AmberAtLoveAndInk said:
> ...



Well sure, because you drive by a billboard with a hairy guy in a bikini pretty much on a daily basis. Tried and true marketing there.. lol.

Hmm..wonder if maybe we can just get him a cute cartoon mascot with an accent instead.


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