# my first wedding: horror story



## shawnxstl (Sep 21, 2008)

So, my cousin Danny invites me with him to shoot this wedding for his two friends who are getting married.  We get there a few hours early and take about 200 pictures between us before the wedding even starts. so, before the wedding starts, i dump all of the pictures i had taken on my laptop (about 120 of them). So, the wedding begins and im shooting away, doing my best to keep my ground. This is my first time doing something like this and it was pretty overwhelming. The wedding is at a golf course and after they get married, the wedding party comes with us to a green thats on top of a hill with a really nice background. The sun had just went behind a big hill and lighting could NOT have been better.  I was really excited about how the pictures turned out there. Anyway, we get back to the lodge and the reception starts. Again, im shooting away doing my best and i looked at the screen on my camera. I had about 20 pictures left.  I switched that card out for the one in my pocket and then before the dances started, i thought, "i better put the old card in my case." So i did. I walked over to my case, opened it, put the card in there, closed it.  About an hour later, i gathered my things and shook hands with the groom and hugged the bride, they said thanks a ton and that they really appreciate it (the photos were my cousins wedding gift to them).  After I leave, i decide to go to my cousins house.  I was thinking "wow, that turned out a lot better than i had expected it would." So when i get to my cousins house, i take out my camera case and bring it in the house so i can look at some of the ones i took.  I get inside, open case....MEMORY CARD IS GONE.

Words cannot describe how mad i was. I looked everywhere where i was sitting. I looked everywhere in my case. I looked everywhere in my car. I went back to the wedding and looked everywhere there.  The only logical thing i can come up with is that someone stole it.  No more of having a case without a lock. I feel so bad about this that its not even funny. Thankfully, my cousin was taking pictures too...but...idk. He noticed his pictures were turning out a little dark in like the first 20 minutes we were there...so to solve this, he turned his LCD brightness up.  I explained that that wasn't helping the pictures, it was just making them brighter on the screen.  He doesn't understand anything about iso/aperture/shutter speed.  (just goes to show he's not the best with his camera...)

So, I decided I'm never doing a wedding again. Im getting a lock with a case on it. Im getting more cf cards and never keeping too many on one, or atleast back up every now and then to my laptop throughout the day.  

*sigh*


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## JerryPH (Sep 21, 2008)

1 - Why would someone take nothing from your case EXCEPT the memory card?

2 - Why did you leave your case in a place where anyone would have access to it without you knowing?

3 - where was the professional photographer that the couple REALLY deserved during all this?

Harsh questions perhaps, and I am not wanting to disrespect you, however, you did miss the ball on several levels.


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## chrisburke (Sep 21, 2008)

ouch


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## shawnxstl (Sep 21, 2008)

1) i didnt have anything except the memory card, lens cap, and a mini usb cable in that case. 

2) i had the case sitting near another cousin of mine and his fiance.

3) idk. we weren't doing that bad until this happened. They couldnt afford a professional and my cousin said he'd do it. 


This was the first time ive ever lost anything while shooting.  It just had to happen with a memory card and on wedding. 

Why couldn't i have lost the one i had only been shooting on for 30-45 minutes?

Ugh this is making me sick.


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## chrisburke (Sep 21, 2008)

no point in letting it make you sick.. you cant change it.. all you can do is learn from it.


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## JerryPH (Sep 21, 2008)

I am sure the "thief" did not know the contents and took what they wanted, but find it quite strange anyways.  Sitting near your cousin was obviously not the best choice on your part.  How about locked up in your car?

People plan and spend a LOT on a weddings.  As someone that has started to get into this field, the "cannot afford one" is just not a valid thing to say.  

People spend thousands for their weddings, and to not budget a small percentage towards a professional photographer... well, then you are asking for these things to happen.  It sincerely is too bad that it happened to you, but it is worse that it happened to the bride and groom.  After all, THEY are the ones that lost the most (unrepeatable memories of an event that will NEVER happen again).

What can anyone say.  It is gone.  Though its NOWHERE NEAR the same thing, perhaps ask for a re-shoot or something.  Yeah, I know it will be nothing like the real thing, but at this point they have NOTHING... perhaps some shots may be better than nothing?


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## chrisburke (Sep 21, 2008)

jerry  i hear what your saying, but take it easy on the guy, he wasnt the offical photographer, he was just tagging along.. yes weddings are expensive, and YES people shouldnt skimp on the photographer (if they did, I'd be out of a secondary job) but the fact is a lot of people do.. thats not something to lecture him about... he cant control it... his cousin was the photog, not him, so the bride and groom knew what they were getting into when they asked his cousin to do the photos... they didnt know he would be tagging along i'm sure...the very first wedding i did was as a backup or help, and its a good thing i was there, because the main photogs photos sucked.. but the fact is, they didnt know i was a back up until the day of, and thank god i was there, because if I wasnt, they wouldnt have any good pictures... yes, he shouldnt have left his gear laying around.. but its not his fault the bride skimped ont he wedding photos  they dont have nothing, as you state, as he was just the back up.. instead, they have what they paid for, which sounds like underexposed amature pics from his cousin,


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## rubbertree (Sep 21, 2008)

reading your first post, the most logical explanation to me is not that someone stole it, but that you lost it somewhere along the line. It must have fallen out. Retrace your steps AGAIN.


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## JerryPH (Sep 21, 2008)

chrisburke said:


> jerry  i hear what your saying, but take it easy on the guy



You are completely right.  I apologize for my rudeness.


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## Peanuts (Sep 21, 2008)

Something is sounding a little funny about the whole 'someone stole it' theory.  Theoretically most of the people there were guests of the wedding - who steals their friend's photographers memory card?  

One note to learn from this is A. Put your name or at least your phone number on your card in case it is lost B. Write "REWARD" on your cards - this increases the chance for them to be returned if they walk off.


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## Mike30D (Sep 21, 2008)

shawnxstl said:


> So, I decided I'm never doing a wedding again.



So you're going to let this one experience keep you from doing weddings? You should give it another chance.


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## Bifurcator (Sep 21, 2008)

shawnxstl,

Some of us here are just old and cantankerous or young and think we know it all. Take it easy on yourself!  It sounds to me  like you did a very professional job and helped out your family and friends in need. :thumbup: I agree with Mike30D! Don't let some punk kid who thought he was getting over by ripping off your card put you off from doing future weddings. It's kind of a sad story for you, the newly-weds, and all involved but at this point it can't be helped. So shake the dread and woe and continue on. It's still early so do the couple still have their gowns and suits?  See if the priest and the bride and groom want to go back to the golf course or a similar looking park and take some make-up shots? 

If they turn down that option then it's not all that important to them. Any way you look at it you have zero fault and were only doing good all around so don't let that experience and a few lame-a$$ opinions here get you down or put you off from future weddings or from enjoying your camera and photography.


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## shawnxstl (Sep 21, 2008)

idk. I dont want to do another wedding anytime soon.  This whole thing has just made me feel really bad for the exact reason jerry is talking about. its their wedding. a once in a lifetime thing. and  now they have some so-so shots from my cousin. im not even sure how many he took.  I took probably double what he took though.

And yeah, noone knew i was coming until i just showed up with him. they didn't know they would have two shooters.  

A lot of people there didn't know that my cousin was the bride/grooms friends.  out of a wedding of that many people, not everyone is going to know everyone. 

As for retracing my steps, i've done that so many times. Ive searched my car atleast 5 times. Searched the case atleast ten times. Searched the floor near where my case was for about a half hour. Asked a lot of people if they seen a memory card for a camera. Searched the walkway from where i parked at my cousins house to the door. Searched inside my cousins house. No luck at all.

Idk. I might do more later but Ill never do one again without having proper gear.  I had a lot of fun doing the group shots of the wedding party.  Im really bummed i cant show the bridge those. She was really excited when she was going through a few random pictures i had taken of her and her husband. =/


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## rubbertree (Sep 21, 2008)

Bifurcator said:


> shawnxstl,
> 
> See if the priest and the bride and groom want to go back to the golf course or a similar looking park and take some make-up shots?
> 
> If they turn down that option then it's not all that important to them.



Clearly you've never been married! What about the expense of having to rent all the tuxes again, get all hair and make up done again, getting people in from who knows where, to come and pose for a couple pictures?
That would be highly unlikely that they would be able to do that again, it doesn't mean it is not important to them.

As far as saying it's not his fault? I don't get that. Ultimately it is the photographer's responsibility.


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## JerryPH (Sep 22, 2008)

If this is a small town thing, the cost of a tux rental and a couple of hours in the local church with the priest-viccar-rabbi and B&G is no biggie.  It would not hurt to at the very least ask and if they refuse, they refuse.  At least an attempt could be made.

Obviously, if people came from all over, and one's desire is to do a complete re-shoot, it could prove impossible to hit that level... but how about the photographer offer to come along on their honeymoon, and add some risqué shots for free?


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## Meysha (Sep 22, 2008)

Oh Dear! That's awful. I think we've all had this happen to us in some magnitude or other and can understand your pain! :-(

Just be upfront with the bride and groom and offer another shoot for free - maybe a trash the dress shoot or something like that could be fun.
Don't let this put you off weddings if that's what you want to do.

And if anything - it's a learning experience. It will all turn out fine.


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## Alex_B (Sep 22, 2008)

I think Jerry basically is right. But there is no use in accusing now. Of course the best place for memory cards is right on your body. But as I said, all that advice is too late now.

In any case, if just the card has disappeared, then you either lost it somewhere, or it got stolen. And since only the card got stolen, at the wedding, the person must know that it is the wedding pictures and probably stole it on purpose to either hurt you, the bride, or the groom. Yes, people are that cruel!

All you can do now, is help that other person post-processing the images that the best possible comes out. If they are too dark, this might help, you will need some noise reduction after brightening up, and some sharpening after that. But the result will be better than what the other person would probably present without postprocessing.


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## Alex_B (Sep 22, 2008)

rubbertree said:


> Clearly you've never been married! What about the expense of having to rent all the tuxes again, get all hair and make up done again, getting people in from who knows where, to come and pose for a couple pictures?



While I agree that a staged re-shooting is not realistic, I still wonder, you rent tuxes for weddings? And what you mean by "all the tuxes", do even the guests rent them? Please excuse my ignorance with weddings on your side of the ocean.


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## TamiyaGuy (Sep 22, 2008)

Wow, I feel really sorry for you. I do agree with the likes of Jerry that you should have done something different, perhaps keep the memory card on you, but I would say that there isn't much point in ridiculing you now (not to say that Jerry did). Also, I can kind of see why you made these little mistakes; it was not only your first wedding shoot, but a relative's wedding. Family feelings affect everything that goes on around you, there's no doubting that.

Well, I really hope you find the memory card, although it seems like there's a slim chance now. Ugh, I have no idea if I want to do weddings if I go pro. On the one hand, it's a great experience, helps me improve, etc. But on the other hand... well, I think you know.


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## Bifurcator (Sep 22, 2008)

Alex_B said:


> While I agree that a staged re-shooting is not realistic, I still wonder, you rent tuxes for weddings? And what you mean by "all the tuxes", do even the guests rent them? Please excuse my ignorance with weddings on your side of the ocean.



Yes, exactly. And I only meant those three people anyway... The bride, groom, and the priest. If their priest is from their home town church there's a very high likelihood that he won't charge anything. Assuming they still have their costumes or are owned and not rented as is so often the case the total cost of a reshoot of the vows is not much more than the gasoline used to get there. I guess if you wanted to re-setup all the floral arrangements there would be a few hundred in flowers.

It might actually be a blessing. For the reshoot you can pose them slipping on the ring, standing in front of the priest, kissing the bride, etc.

Of course you probably can't recreate any of the guest shots...  I was just talking about the most meaningful ones that people set on the hearth, hang, or set on their desks at the office.


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## rubbertree (Sep 22, 2008)

Alex_B said:


> While I agree that a staged re-shooting is not realistic, I still wonder, you rent tuxes for weddings? And what you mean by "all the tuxes", do even the guests rent them? Please excuse my ignorance with weddings on your side of the ocean.



Typically, formal weddings, over here anyway, consist of the bride and groom and anywhere from 1 to 8 and even more attendants for both the bride and groom. So the bride would have her maid of honour and then usually 2 more bridesmaids, the groom would have his best man and 2 more groomsmen. That is a typical, formal wedding. The groom and his men all rent tuxes or suits, usually they all wear the same thing and typically they are rented, nobody owns their own tux, usually.
Of course, who knows what this wedding was like. I was married in Vegas so nothing typical about that! Had the photographer lost the card for my wedding, no, we could not have flown back down to recreate the shots. We were counting on him to do his job, which he did.
If the photographer who suggests recreating the shot along with the expense is no big deal, perhaps he/she should be the one to foot the bill?
Of course there is no sense in berating someone after the fact but hopefully others who do wedding photography will read this and learn from it at the very least.


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## fightheheathens (Sep 23, 2008)

JerryPH said:


> People plan and spend a LOT on a weddings.  As someone that has started to get into this field, the "cannot afford one" is just not a valid thing to say.




wow...i would like to welcome you to the rest of the world. you must be clueless to think that "everyone who gets married" can spend thousands on a wedding. That is just ignorant. 
you really think two people who make 20,000 per year can spend 1,000 bucks on a photographer?


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## shawnxstl (Sep 24, 2008)

GOOD NEWS!

The card was found today. I had the camera and i was doing some school assignment...When i went to take the lens cap off the camera, the card fell out. The card SOMEHOW got in between the lens and the lens cap. Im not sure how in the hell that happened, or how the lens cap even fit right. Talk about a luckkkkkky find. 

Still clueless has to how it got there. the camera never left my hand that night until it went in the case.


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## Bifurcator (Sep 24, 2008)

LOL!!!


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## Sabin (Sep 24, 2008)

Congratulations man, that's got to be one of the best feelings you can experience.  Had you already told the bride and groom, or are they never going to have to know about this?


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## chrisburke (Sep 24, 2008)

this one should go in your "stupid photography moments" book


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## shawnxstl (Sep 24, 2008)

yes it was a great feeling. i looked down at it when it fell out and i picked it up slowly and then looked at it for like a minute without moving and my friend steven was like dude what are you doing come on lets get this finished. 

i just looked up at him with a huge grin on my face.   best feeling ever. hahah.


Anyway, yeah. ive been trying to call my cousin all day to ask if he told them about it or not and then to tell him i found it. he never answered his phone so i just called the groom and asked if my cousin had told him what had happened. he said yeah. i said "first off i'd like to apologize for loosing it. second off, i found it." he was really excited and so was his new wife. i heard her in the background when he told her. 

great day.


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## JerryPH (Sep 24, 2008)

fightheheathens said:


> wow...i would like to welcome you to the rest of the world. you must be clueless to think that "everyone who gets married" can spend thousands on a wedding. That is just ignorant.
> you really think two people who make 20,000 per year can spend 1,000 bucks on a photographer?


 
Wow, you know that the AVERAGE dollar amount nationally in the US is $10,000? Over $25,000 is the average amount in California?

Ignorance is calling someone ignorant without knowing facts.  My facts come from national US surveys. You can check out the results yourself on the WPPI board. I am sure that if you get a little more industrous, you can likely find more figures supporting that elsehwere (like HERE, where they say the US AVERAGE is *$30,000*!!!).

Who's clueless now, bud?

As for my attitude, had you read a little further, you would have seen that I apologized (post #9). Doesn't that make you feel a but more stupid? Welcome to my ignore list, and have a nice day!


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## JerryPH (Sep 24, 2008)

shawnxstl said:


> GOOD NEWS!
> 
> The card was found today.


 
Awsome!  Go and make them happy after the big scare.


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## Bifurcator (Sep 25, 2008)

They only make $20k a year?  WTH... do they both only work part time at McDonalds or something??? Jezzz.. I save that much in 6 months and I have no job at all right now.


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## AquaVelvet (Sep 25, 2008)

i'm happy for you that have found the photo's!! that must have been a nightmare. But its a good thing for me to keep in mind as I have my first wedding is feb!! 

Now, am I the only one that really wants to see some of the photo's now!! :lmao:


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## Alex_B (Sep 25, 2008)

Good news indeed!

Anyway, you probably had the lns cap in the camera bag, the card landede on the cap, and then you put in the camera, and click the lens cap got attached to the lens, with the card in between.

I just wonder why you did not take the lens cap off for so long


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## Garbz (Sep 25, 2008)

fightheheathens said:


> wow...i would like to welcome you to the rest of the world. you must be clueless to think that "everyone who gets married" can spend thousands on a wedding. That is just ignorant.
> you really think two people who make 20,000 per year can spend 1,000 bucks on a photographer?





JerryPH said:


> Ignorance is calling someone ignorant without knowing facts.  My facts come from national US surveys.



As fun as it is to quote both random numbers and actual statistics it makes no real sense either way. One of my friends has an excellent job, a huge income, and is flat broke with his huge mortgage, and 2 cars to pay off. I on the other hand earnt less than $10000 so far this year and spend $2000 of those on a computer monitor.

People may spend a lot on weddings, but saying if someone has a wedding then they can afford a professional photographer is very short sighted. (for reference my aunt's wedding cost $2000, was fantastic. I did the photos because she didn't want to pay another $4000 for a pro)


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## Chewbecca (Sep 25, 2008)

YAY!!!  Glad you found it!!!
I cannot COUNT how many times I have lost lens caps, misplaced USB cables, and all of that.
And the most amazing part to me is, anytime an accessory is removed from my camera (lens cap, USB cable), it goes directly BACK INTO my camera bag.
I think I have a camera bag fairy that likes to put my my stuff in different pockets in my bag.  Because I inevitably will find these things, in my bag, days after I no longer need it.


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## PhilGarber (Sep 25, 2008)

Alex_B said:


> While I agree that a staged re-shooting is not realistic, I still wonder, you rent tuxes for weddings? And what you mean by "all the tuxes", do even the guests rent them? Please excuse my ignorance with weddings on your side of the ocean.



Lol, don't worry Alex, us North Americans are a strange bunch


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## shawnxstl (Sep 25, 2008)

who said they only make 20k a year?

I never said that. I just said they couldnt afford a pro would charge thousands of dollars most likely. Ill have a few pictures posted in a bit.


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## youbetcha1018 (Sep 25, 2008)

That is not a horror story. Why would you say that someone stole it? Anyone in that wedding, against their marriage? Well, what happened to you is a lesson. You have to learn from it. Do not leave your things unattended.


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## Dao (Sep 25, 2008)

I am glad you found the lost memory card.    

Just wondering ...  did you measure how big your grin was when you found the memory card?


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## table1349 (Sep 25, 2008)

http://www.thinktankphoto.com/ttp_product_PxlPcktRckt.php


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## ANDS! (Sep 25, 2008)

> Who's clueless now, bud?



Man this turned into a e-peen clash contest pretty soon.

The point is simply, some people just do NOT have the green to pay a "pro" to do their wedding.  When you are compartmentalizing what you need dont need - its very easy for a "pro" to shoot your wedding to go out that window, especially if you "know" someone who is "into" photography.



> That is not a horror story.



If I lost the photographs of my best friends wedding, I'd be pretty horrified.  Well not horrified.  But I would feel like a right dick.


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## lockwood81 (Sep 25, 2008)

gryphonslair99 said:


> http://www.thinktankphoto.com/ttp_product_PxlPcktRckt.php


 

Hey cool find.


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## rubbertree (Sep 25, 2008)

shawnxstl said:


> GOOD NEWS!
> 
> The card was found today. I had the camera and i was doing some school assignment...When i went to take the lens cap off the camera, the card fell out. The card SOMEHOW got in between the lens and the lens cap. Im not sure how in the hell that happened, or how the lens cap even fit right. Talk about a luckkkkkky find.
> 
> Still clueless has to how it got there. the camera never left my hand that night until it went in the case.



You have GOT to be kidding me. 
Clearly the only logical thing you could think of was not logical at all and that you misplaced it, which was the most logical explanation. I sure as hell hope you didn't tell anyone else but us that you thought a guest of the wedding stole it.


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## shawnxstl (Sep 26, 2008)

hmph. nope. never told anyone else my thoughts. was just stunned that i so vividly remember putting it in my case and it not being there the next time i opened it up. 

*gathers courage back up again*
Shooting kickboxing tomorrow.  will not loose a card this time. 
Actually just got my replacement cards in today because i bought 2 new ones to replace the one i lost.  So now i have 4 more gigs of head room. 14 kickboxing fights tomorrow. I'll be snapping away happily.


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## Hawaii Five-O (Sep 26, 2008)

Bifurcator said:


> I save that much in 6 months and I have no job at all right now.


How do you save 20K in 6 months without a job? Are you talking Jap currency?:lmao:


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## Atropine (Sep 26, 2008)

I'm glad you found the card Shawn! Must be a relief of epic proportions.

So, what is the lesson learned here? I would say always wear clothes that has a pocket with zipper and store the cards in a memory card case. It's a little bit bigger and doesn't get lost that easy, and besides it keeps your cards clean and protected. After a days shooting those little buggers might be the most valuable component in your gear. I might be a little paranoid, but that's how I do when I am on a mission.


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## JerryPH (Sep 26, 2008)

Atropine said:


> I would say always wear clothes that has a pocket with zipper and store the cards in a memory card case. It's a little bit bigger and doesn't get lost that easy, and besides it keeps your cards clean and protected. After a days shooting those little buggers might be the most valuable component in your gear. I might be a little paranoid, but that's how I do when I am on a mission.



Agreed.  Even when I am shooting nothing important or playing, it is always a good idea to learn to keep the memory cards on you in a container that can protect them from sweat/humidity/dirt... or pass them to someone that will *immediately* make multiple copies to both the laptop HD and an external HD, wipe them and return them empty to you.  You then format them in your camera and are again ready to fill them.

My camera strap has a pouch that can hold 2 CF cards securely, I keep the empties there, and the filled ones in plastic cases inside a small pouch that came with my SanDisk CF cards.


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## JerryPH (Sep 26, 2008)

Garbz said:


> People may spend a lot on weddings, but saying if someone has a wedding then they can afford a professional photographer is very short sighted. (for reference my aunt's wedding cost $2000, was fantastic. I did the photos because she didn't want to pay another $4000 for a pro)



Actually, the logic I meant was that if someone has ANY kind of a budget for the wedding, and if they want the best results for their money in terms of photos, they should budget a portion of whatever that amount is, for a professional photographer.  A professional will always give you better results than someone without experience.  Now, if this means nothing to them, then it really doesn't matter, does it?

Your aunt got lucky... I would not exactly call you a newbie, Garbz, so in this case, its not quite the same thing that was being discussing at that moment.


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## Bifurcator (Sep 26, 2008)

Hawaii Five-O said:


> How do you save 20K in 6 months without a job? Are you talking Jap currency?:lmao:



Little odd jobs (usually less than 4 hr. gigs - once a week or less), selling junk on yahoo auctions, playing in the marketplace, etc. 

No, that's US currency. And I mean I _save_ that much. I make considerably more.


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## Jon0807 (Sep 26, 2008)

Bifurcator said:


> Little odd jobs (usually less than 4 hr. gigs - once a week or less), selling junk on yahoo auctions, playing in the marketplace, etc.
> 
> No, that's US currency. And I mean I _save_ that much. I make considerably more.



Wow you need to write a book on how to make so much money without an official job....then you'd make even more money! lol But seriously, I'd be in a house right now if I could make/save that much, even in this economy.


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## notelliot (Sep 26, 2008)

Jon0807 said:


> Wow you need to write a book on how to make so much money without an official job....then you'd make even more money! lol But seriously, I'd be in a house right now if I could make/save that much, even in this economy.


that book's been written. I've read it too. except mine are Canadian dollars


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## Antithesis (Sep 28, 2008)

Keep your memory cards on your person unless your standing close to your bag. Your camera gear can be replaced if stolen (homeowners/renters insurance covers theft), but your images cannot.

If that would have happened to me while shooting a wedding, I probably would have been sued and lost my job. Be glad you didn't sign a contract.


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## D-50 (Sep 28, 2008)

No chance the average wedding photgrapher makes $10,000 per wedding.  I must have misread the post. The national average is much closer to $3000 give or take depending on state. With the national average for wedding cost being roughly $30,000 there is no way the average cost for a photograher is a third of that budget.  I personaly know many people who paid between 3000 and 5000 for their wedding photographer.


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## Chewbecca (Sep 28, 2008)

Bifurcator said:


> Little odd jobs (usually less than 4 hr. gigs - once a week or less), selling junk on yahoo auctions, playing in the marketplace, etc.
> 
> No, that's US currency. And I mean I _save_ that much. I make considerably more.




What kind of junk are you selling???  Babies?  Organs?  Human eggs?  WTF.


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## Joves (Sep 28, 2008)

Chewbecca said:


> What kind of junk are you selling??? Babies? Organs? Human eggs? WTF.


 Actually there are a lot of people who make lots of money off of the online auctions. You just have to hit up some good garage sales and find unique items to sell. 
 To the OP did the card leave any marks on your lens? I have those little card keychain pouches that I always put the card in when it is full. That way I always know where it is at.


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## Garbz (Sep 28, 2008)

JerryPH said:


> Actually, the logic I meant was that if someone has ANY kind of a budget for the wedding, and if they want the best results for their money in terms of photos, they should budget a portion of whatever that amount is, for a professional photographer.  A professional will always give you better results than someone without experience.  Now, if this means nothing to them, then it really doesn't matter, does it?
> 
> Your aunt got lucky... I would not exactly call you a newbie, Garbz, so in this case, its not quite the same thing that was being discussing at that moment.



Ahh yes. Everything is within reason. And thanks for the compliment. But my Aunt got me 2 years ago. When I had the D200 for 2 months, and the SB-800 for 2 days. Believe me she still got what she paid for.


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## SwitchFX (Oct 3, 2008)

Sweet find, mate.  


Weddings in my area usually run $75,000 USD and up. A family member recent spent close to $120,000 USD on his wedding. The photographer/videographer who's pretty well known cost about $4,500 USD.


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## hankejp (Oct 3, 2008)

Congrats on the find.

This thread has it all.  Happiness, sadness, anger, amazement, etc.


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## tenlientl (Oct 8, 2008)

So how do some of you deal with memory cards during weddings? What capacity do you use?

I'm always afraid that after I've took 200 pictures, the memory card might fail/brea/get lost/stolen.

Do you guys keep small sized cards. Once a hundred or so is taken, remove them, use laptop to backup, keep the files on that same memory card then use a 2nd one. Repeat?


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## Rachelsne (Oct 8, 2008)

As per the money thing-When I got married we were paying for my immigration lawyer, the forms to fill out to get my green card, the trip back to England to see my family for the honeymoon (which all was more important that spending over a thoushand on our photographs.) and our wedding still cost to much!


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## Neuner (Oct 8, 2008)

Always glad to hear great news like that.  The relief must be phenomenal.  Now go say a prayer of thanks to St. Anthony.

Had a moment similar with my wedding ring while working out at the Y.  I distinctly remember putting it in the upper compartment portion of my backpack but never found it there or any place else.  One week later my wife notices an odd impression in the rear pocket of my shorts.  In it was my wedding ring.  There's no way I can see it getting in that small of an opening and I wouldn't have placed it there.  Huge amount of relief and many prayers said.


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## mrodgers (Oct 8, 2008)

I missed this thread when it started....

Congrats on the find of the card.  When I read it, I felt the emotion in the post.

As for the cost of weddings, photographers, and salaries.....

My wedding cost me $3k.  The photographer was $600.  Some of the figures for weddings I am seeing here would be 1 to 3 years salary, just for a wedding?

I don't currently have the link, but it is being discussed right now in another forum I am on.  The median salary in the US (meaning 50% of the US makes this or less) is $32,000 (2006 statistics).  Hobby forums are always full of people who make substantial salaries.  It is because it takes substantial salaries to do a hobby.  Welcome to the real world.  For most of us in this country, we aren't just entering a recession, we've been in one for the past 5 or 6 years.


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## chrisburke (Oct 8, 2008)

glad to hear i'm not the only one who didnt blow the bank on a wedding.. ours cost $4000 photographer cost just the cost for printing, as it was a photographer friend who very much knew what she was doing.. gave us her time as a gift..we just paid for developing (she was a film user)

it boggles my mind to think there are people out there spending 60+k on a wedding.. even 10K boggles my mind.. my wife watches those wedding shows, and some of the budgets are ridiculous... our budget as i said was $4000 and it was a beautiful wedding.. the church was free (i'm a pastor) the minister was free (i worked with him) our ladies group did the food (it was amazing) most expensive part was the dance.. we rented a beautiful hall for it...


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## mrodgers (Oct 8, 2008)

Nah, you can't go by those TV shows.  I can't believe anything about them.  My wife watches the "what's my house worth" shows where they have a $400k house, put $80k of work into it and it's magically worth $1.5 million!

I mean, get real!  One of those episodes, they listed the cost of painting 2 rooms at $10,000.  How you get $10k of cost from about 3 gallons of paint that costs $35 a gallon (that's the expensive stuff...) and half a day's worth of labor I'll never figure out.


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## manaheim (Oct 8, 2008)

It has a lot to do with where you live. I live in the Boston, MA area and getting a reasonable 4BR house with some land in what I would call a "reasonable" town is going to cost a minimum of $400K. The numbers have gone down a bit recently, but _average_ listing price for homes in my area is around $500K.

Cost of living factors a lot into all kinds of stuff... hard to buy a house, food is expensive, yadda yadda... people's salaries go up... weddings get more expensive... etc. It's all a huge mess.

I'm no economist, mind you. 

EDIT: Of course, some people will tell me what I think is reasonable is completely ridiculous.  There's also that horrible sliding problem of no matter how much money you happen to make, it's never enough, and all that happens is your perspective gets stupidly out of whack.


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## KD5NRH (Oct 8, 2008)

chrisburke said:


> it boggles my mind to think there are people out there spending 60+k on a wedding.. even 10K boggles my mind.. my wife watches those wedding shows, and some of the budgets are ridiculous... our budget as i said was $4000 and it was a beautiful wedding..



Ours was a lot less than that...the pastor got sick, so we grabbed the JP on short notice, and used the local American Legion hall.

We had originally planned to have a skeet shoot at the reception, but decided against it because it would look bad to drag out some shotguns that cost as much as or more than the wedding


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## bigtwinky (Oct 9, 2008)

I'm a little late from the original thread, but I'm glad you found the card! 

I'm really curious to see the pictures though, have you posted them up?

As for the wedding photographer discussion, my wife and I chose not to put too much money on our wedding.  We had a 5k budget.   We did want a photographer, so we had to do alot of searching to find someone that we liked and who didn't charge too much.  We also had to cut on the amount of time the photographer was with us, as in he stayed for only the first hour of the reception, wasn't at the bride's house before, and so on.

It all worked out!  There is something for everyone out there.  I find that 5,000 for a photographer to shoot my wedding, specially seeing that there are so many local wedding photographers that aren't all that good, is totally ridiculous.  Thats me, that might not be you.

Doesn't matter whether they make 20k per year or 200k per year.  If they weren't able to find someone who could shoot what they wanted at the price they wanted, they have to settle for someone doing it for free.

All in all, I'm sure they had a great time, and have great pictures to boot.


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## chrisburke (Oct 9, 2008)

yea OP, when do we get to see the PICS??


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## JerryPH (Oct 9, 2008)

Another tap on the shoulder of the OP for some pics!


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## 15two3 (Oct 10, 2008)

are we going to see the godamn pictures or what?


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## Photonic Harmony (Oct 13, 2008)

Although I don't enjoy it, I've shot two weddings now and I was truly happy with the results.

I'm assuming you didn't have them believe you were a professional wedding photographer? I don't think you should be too hard on yourself, if you made it clear you were not.  If they were not that concerned about hiring a professional photographer, you shouldn't feel overly bad about your part in this misfortune.

When I do a wedding - as a favour - I always make it clear that they should in NO WAY count on my images to depict their day.  That statement puts the ball in their court and I've covered my rear end.

With all that said, it is a shame that they don't have your images of their "special" day, unfortunately that's just the way the cookie crumbled this time around.

Pick yourself up off the floor - dust off - move on.  All the best.


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## chrisburke (Oct 13, 2008)

...^^^ you must not have read the whole thread.. he found the card..


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## Photonic Harmony (Oct 13, 2008)

Thanks for pointing that out Chris, fortunately the lost card wasn't the central point of my post.  You must not have read my entire post


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## chrisburke (Oct 13, 2008)

i did.... and if its the subject of your post your referring to in the "pick yourself up" i dont think that was an issue at all.. he wasnt upset about the job he had done, he was upset about loosing the card...


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## shawnxstl (Oct 15, 2008)

blahhhh 

sorry for the late reply guys. I havent been home for more than a couple hours in the past three weeks.  Damn "lady" friend.

Ironically enough, we got in a pretty big fight about a month before this wedding and then the morning of the wedding she text me out of the blue and we started talking again. Pretty much been staying there since then.

Pictures will be coming soon. Dont be expecting anything mindblowing but yeah.


OHHHH and did i tell you that my cousin wanted me to go through all of his pictures (~700) and edit the ones worth keeping????

THERE ARE NONE.

Even in the formal shots, he still managed to cut body parts off at random places, blow the sky wayyyy out, out of focus people, just pretty much anything you can think of.

during the cake cutting, he managed to take two pictures. TWO. both of them having the door in the background in focus instead of the bride/groom.

:x:x:x:x:x


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## chrisburke (Oct 15, 2008)

well i hope yours turned out good then... was your cousin paid for this wedding???


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## djacobox372 (Oct 16, 2008)

JerryPH said:


> I am sure the "thief" did not know the contents and took what they wanted, but find it quite strange anyways.  Sitting near your cousin was obviously not the best choice on your part.  How about locked up in your car?
> 
> People plan and spend a LOT on a weddings.  As someone that has started to get into this field, the "cannot afford one" is just not a valid thing to say.
> 
> ...



So you're saying if he would have charged his friends a couple grand he would be made immune to theft and poor decision making? 

There are a lot of people out there in "the real world" that simply cannot afford the $1500+ that even an inexperienced  "pro" will charge.... and I for one would trust many of my close friends to "protect" my photos just as much as I would some inexpensive pro in the yellow pages.


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## SilverGlow (Oct 23, 2008)

shawnxstl said:


> blahhhh
> 
> sorry for the late reply guys. I havent been home for more than a couple hours in the past three weeks. Damn "lady" friend.
> 
> ...


 
Just curious...how many weddings have you shot? And when can we see some keepers? It's been several weeks now, yea?!?


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## William Petruzzo (Oct 24, 2008)

Noo! Don't give up now! Making horrible mistakes is the best way to become a great photographer of conviction and confidence!


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## Ryvax (Jul 1, 2009)

I just read six pages of this post.  I want to see those pics now please.


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## inTempus (Jul 1, 2009)

Another vote to see the pics.

I find it amazing that your cousin was tapped for being the photog when he doesn't even know how to set the exposure on his camera properly or where to focus.  Did he misrepresent his abilities to the bride and groom or did they really not care if they got pictures of their wedding?  If they can afford a wedding at a country club, I find it hard to believe they couldn't scrounge up another $500-$1000 for a local photog that's at least shot a couple of weddings before and had a portfolio to show.

It sucks you lost the memory card.  I don't know why someone would take a single memory card, especially knowing that on that card are the pictures of the wedding.  Usually people at weddings are there because they like the bride and groom, not because they want to sabotage their wedding.    Either it was a rascally kid, ex-boyfriend/girlfriend that snuck in or you misplaced the card.

Golden rule #112 that I learned from my wedding photog mentor:  Never let your memory cards leave your person.  Get a pouch that you strap to your body.  In it carry all critical things like memory cards.  Never let it out of your sight.  Camera bags get stolen all too often, my mentor has had stuff stolen twice... insurance doesn't cover lost pictures, so keep them with you.


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## JerryPH (Jul 2, 2009)

You know... its not about the money, its not about the lost card, as a matter of fact, the ONLY important thing it should be about is the bride and groom and their day.

As I get more and more serious about wedding photography and see what it takes to do a *GOOD *job and to do it right, I am also looking at what others charge.  I came across several people that charge $200-$500 and could with their work embarass many 30-year wedding photographer veterans and other photographers that charge $3000 and more.

This is not uncommon, and I look today, and still see NO reason why an inexperienced photographer agrees to do a poor job when there are people out there that are basically giving away their talents for next to nothing... and then regretting it.  If they really cared about the B&G, instead of screwing up their day and playing pro wedding photographer, they would get together as a group, research the best possible photographer that is within their budget, and pay for it.  

I do not care what anyone thinks, but, I sincerely do not have anything against someone wanting to become a wedding photographer.  It is an incredible event, and each one is so magical to me... what I find inexcusable are people who *try* to do weddings and are clueless.  Of course they will fail miserably.  Of course they will often say "I did ok"... no, it was not ok... it was mediocre.  It was *not* what the bride and groom deserve.  

Let me be blunt... this crap is now what they are stuck looking at for the rest of their lives compared to something that they did deserve.  

"Oh but there are professionals out there that are just as crappy".  Yes, sadly there are, and more than we would like. but that is NOT the point!

The point is the couple need to do their homework and find someone that will give them what they deserve, pro or not.  If your uncle George can do a good job, USE HIM... but make sure he KNOWS what he is doing, else we are back at square one!!

To do a wedding right from the aspect of someone that wants to do it right takes a ton of work, ton of preparation and camera/lighting equipment that is equal to the challenges that near all weddings today present.  

1. If you have not taken the time to *MASTER* the basics of photography, you have no business standing in front of a bride on her special day.  

2. If you have not taken the time to mentor with a *KNOWN GOOD EXPERIENCED WEDDING PHOTOGRAPHER*, you have no business standing in front of a bride on her special day.  Mentoring is the BEST and FASTEST way to learn.  This way you can play "mr pro wedding photographer" and no one gets hurt, becuase someone is covering your back and at the same time teaching you how to do it right.

3. If you have not taken the time to *MASTER* your camera and lighting equipment you have no business standing in front of a bride on her special day.

4.  If your equipment is not capable if capturing excellent quality shots in difficult and very low light situations, rent it, learn to use it or you have no business standing in front of a bride on her special day.

5. If your post processing skills cannot result in pictures that cannot bring smiles or even tears of joy, you have no business standing in front of a bride on her special day.

The reason so many people argue these points are because of ego.  "I don't need to do all that to do a good job..." is what we hear often.  

Yeah... you do.  Reality sucks, doesn't it?  

Bruised egos are a *****... but if they cared more about the B&G than their egos, we'd have a ton fewer horror stories out there and a lot fewer brides out there crying and wishing that they'd spent a little less on booze and a cake (both consumables that they see once and never again), and a little more for a better photographer.

I'm not pointing the fingers at anyone here, just airing what I think are the realities vs what some people imagine how things are.


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## Lacey Anne (Jul 2, 2009)

Jerry, your passion is awesome. 

Where the hell are the pics?

FWIW, my wedding cost under $500 and we had no photographer. Of course, I was 19 and knocked up... Oh well.


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## B Kennedy (Jul 2, 2009)

ugh...6 pages of reading, leading up to the pics, and dammit there still is none!  Let's see some


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## Moglex (Jul 2, 2009)

OP hasn't visited sunce the 8th June so you might have a wait.


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## JerryPH (Jul 2, 2009)

Lacey Anne said:


> Jerry, your passion is awesome.


 Thanks. 



Lacey Anne said:


> Where the hell are the pics?


Well, based on what we read, at least 700 of them are not going to be here... lol



Lacey Anne said:


> FWIW, my wedding cost under $500 and we had no photographer. Of course, I was 19 and knocked up... Oh well.



lol@being "knocked up"... hey, we do what we have to do!  Was you dad there with shotgun in hand?  I think that is where the term "shotgun wedding" came from originally.


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## inTempus (Jul 2, 2009)

I'm with you Jerry, I think it's completely irresponsible for people to shoot weddings that have no idea what they're doing.  Typically its a disaster, even if the amateur photog thinks they did great afterward.

A wedding is supposed to be a once in a lifetime event (not so much anymore, so you may get a second or third chance with a particular bride or groom) that is supposed to be one of the biggest days of the brides life.  To show up and shoot a bunch of snap shots that are OOF, under exposed, over exposed, poorly composed, and missing key shots is inexcusable.  

This is only made worse by the fact many people do this hack job for their friends and family.  At least with a stranger you never have to see them again after wrecking their wedding photos.  With friends and family you never get to live it down.

There are some rare instances where people honestly don't care if they have pictures of their wedding or not.  Some people have no use for them.  So if you're lucky enough to get volunteered to shoot a wedding where the bride and groom honestly don't care what the end result is, have some fun and try to learn something.  But I've found even the most understanding bride in the beginning isn't so understanding once they see their screwed up pictures.  Most people expect to get quality pictures even for free.  When they get junk, then they get pissy.

I've been asked several times to shoot weddings for friends and family, and each time I've declined.  I'm doing it right, I'm working with a 13 year veteran wedding photog and learning the ropes this year.  If I feel comfortable next year I might take on my first wedding.  My mentor has offered to second shoot for me when I do, which gives me even more confidence.  

But there's no way in Hell I would just waddle out into a wedding with a camera I bought 6 months ago and pretend I know what I'm doing.  It has nothing to do with me, it has everything to do with the bride and groom... and screwing up their one special day isn't something I'm willing to do just because I think "what the heck, I can do it, how hard can it be?"


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## Jeremy Z (Jul 3, 2009)

All this jazz about deserving a pro photographer for their wedding is bunk. If the couple decided to save money, and trust their friends (whose work I presume they saw beforehand) then they get what they deserve, good or bad. They DECIDED to hire their friends. THEY made the decision, as responsible adults.

I shot two weddings for my friends, both with excellent results. (not mediocre) I'm not a pro, and my back-up camera was a point & shoot in both cases. In both cases, I told them I would do my best, and having seen my work, that was good enough for them. They saved hundreds or thousands of dollars. I shot their weddings as a wedding gift. It was a win-win situation.

That is a bummer that the memory card was lost or stolen.

I agree that putting your gear someplace inaccessible to the general public is the preferred route. Having a locking case, someone could just walk off with it. But of course you know this now.

In my opinion, memory card are so small, yet so important, that they should be kept on one's person.

Well, I hope everything came out all right for you.

It is no wonder there are no pix posted. Jerry would probably rip into them and call them all mediocre in his condescending manner.


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## Moglex (Jul 3, 2009)

Jeremy Z said:


> All this jazz about deserving a pro photographer for their wedding is bunk. If the couple decided to save money, and trust their friends (whose work I presume they saw beforehand) then they get what they deserve, good or bad. They DECIDED to hire their friends. THEY made the decision, as responsible adults.



Yes, I found it quite disturbing the way some posters were virtually *demanding* that people should hire a professional photographer (at considerable cost). It is, as you say, their choice.

But I agree that people should not represent themselves as capable of doing a professional quality wedding shoot if they can't.

e.g. if X is known to his friends as a photographer and maybe thought to be a very good one on the basis of, say, wildlife photographs, then if X's friends ask him to shoot their wedding it behoves him to tell them very clearly that he does not have any experience of that and that wedding photography is a specialist field and all he can really promise them is good quality snaps.

Then they can make a decsion knowing all the salient facts.


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## Sachphotography (Jul 3, 2009)

tharmsen said:


> I'm with you Jerry, I think it's completely irresponsible for people to shoot weddings that have no idea what they're doing.  Typically its a disaster, even if the amateur photog thinks they did great afterward.
> 
> A wedding is supposed to be a once in a lifetime event (not so much anymore, so you may get a second or third chance with a particular bride or groom) that is supposed to be one of the biggest days of the brides life.  To show up and shoot a bunch of snap shots that are OOF, under exposed, over exposed, poorly composed, and missing key shots is inexcusable.
> 
> ...



I worked and talked with a few different people who shoot weddings and I have to agree. If you take pictures on the "best day of her life" and screw them up, you are liable to get sued. When I shoot weddings; now that I am shooting digital, I keep my card on me at all times. I have a little case they do not move from. I would be scared to death if a card with 500 pictures disappeared. I have gotten into the habit of only keeping no more than 100 on a card. I shoot 1000 or so pictures and yes, I carry a lot of cards. I know that if one has issues I still have 9 other cards. I am not about to jeopardize her day at all. I know how my wedding day was and I could no repeat that if I tried. You tell your wife you ripped off the front end of your Durango on the way to the wedding while standing in front of the unity candle!!! You can't get that face twice. (yeah it was a rough day) lol
The thing to remember is that people get what they pay for. If they want a $300 guy who has never done a wedding then that is what they are going to get.....  agree though. It is irresponsible.............


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## Moglex (Jul 3, 2009)

Sachphotography said:


> The thing to remember is that people get what they pay for. If they want a $300 guy who has never done a wedding then that is what they are going to get.....  agree though. It is irresponsible.............



Some people need to realise that photographs simply are not that important to everyone. And even if they are they may not be that bothered about the quality.

I've been to more than one wedding where the only photographs that were taken were snaps (not by me) and the B&G were not in the slightest concerned. So long as they got a few 6x4's they were happy.

It may seem like sacrilege to people here but that's what they wanted.


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## Threesia (Jul 3, 2009)

I read this entire thread and was hoping to see the pictures. Then I noticed that the last time the OP posted in this thread was October 2008. Looks like it's gonna be a very long wait.


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## Sachphotography (Jul 3, 2009)

Moglex said:


> Sachphotography said:
> 
> 
> > The thing to remember is that people get what they pay for. If they want a $300 guy who has never done a wedding then that is what they are going to get.....  agree though. It is irresponsible.............
> ...



Eh... Tis true...Tis true.... I saw a wedding once were they B&G passed out a ton of disposable cameras and that is how they wanted the wedding shot. HEHE Who says you need expensive fancy camera gear!!! I shot my first wedding with a $3 disposable camera!! LOL


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## Clawed (Jul 3, 2009)

Jeremy Z said:


> All this jazz about deserving a pro photographer for their wedding is bunk. If the couple decided to save money, and trust their friends (whose work I presume they saw beforehand) then they get what they deserve, good or bad. They DECIDED to hire their friends. THEY made the decision, as responsible adults.
> 
> I shot two weddings for my friends, both with excellent results. (not mediocre) I'm not a pro, and my back-up camera was a point & shoot in both cases. In both cases, I told them I would do my best, and having seen my work, that was good enough for them. They saved hundreds or thousands of dollars. I shot their weddings as a wedding gift. It was a win-win situation.
> 
> ...


 
Do not think I could have possibly said it better myself, I agree with everything you said here.  That saves me from having to type more that what I am right now  :thumbup:


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## kundalini (Jul 3, 2009)

There are too many words to read the entire thread, so I'll tell my little story.

First wedding I hired a pro to shoot the day.  Best I can remember, there were some good shots.  I don't have a single image of that day.

Second wedding, got married at the magistrats court and bought a slew of disposables for the guest at the reception of the pub I managed and have loads of fond memories.... and photos.  Nothing pro at all, but it was a helluva day.



hehehe, just read Sach's reply.


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## JerryPH (Jul 3, 2009)

Well.. they say 3rd time's the charm... lol !!

Again, apples and oranges.  If the B&G could not care less about the shots, then why even have a photographer there in the first place... but if they are asking  someone INEPT at photography much less wedding photography, to do it, becuase they don't have the money, but "if they did" would hire Jesh De Rox and pay double his fee... THESE are the people I am targeting.  Matter of fact, 99% of the time the B&G that want a photographer would LOVE to have a good one, and get someone else becuase they THINK he is good, and ego being what it is, the person doing it, does it... regardless of if he is bad... or terrible... lol.  All this just  to save money becuase they think all cameras and photographers are equal... thats not the case, and these are the people that suffer the most.

I've seen the tears, heard the sobbing... it wasn't pretty.  Maybe because of these things, I feel so strongly about " do it once, do it right, or don't bother doing it!".


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## Moglex (Jul 3, 2009)

JerryPH said:


> Well.. they say 3rd time's the charm... lol !!
> 
> Again, apples and oranges.  If the B&G could not care less about the shots, then why even have a photographer there in the first place... but if they are asking  someone INEPT at photography much less wedding photography, to do it, becuase they don't have the money, but "if they did" would hire Jesh De Rox and pay double his fee... THESE are the people I am targeting.  Matter of fact, 99% of the time the B&G that want a photographer would LOVE to have a good one, and get someone else becuase they THINK he is good, and ego being what it is, the person doing it, does it... regardless of if he is bad... or terrible... lol.  All this just  to save money becuase they think all cameras and photographers are equal... thats not the case, and these are the people that suffer the most.
> 
> I've seen the tears, heard the sobbing... it wasn't pretty.  Maybe because of these things, I feel so strongly about " do it once, do it right, or don't bother doing it!".


You still don't seem to be able to get your head around the idea that some people *just don't care* about the quality. The sort of people who are happy with a few 6x4's stuck in a cheap album.

Yes, they would like some pictures but the don't really care whether they were taken by Lord Lichfield or AuntyAda on her box brownie.


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## Jeremy Z (Jul 3, 2009)

I guess it is a matter of perspective too.

Assuming Jerry is a pro wedding photographer, we have to remember that he mostly only sees the people who ARE serious about their wedding photography, and who CAN afford to hire a pro.

Those of us who have shot friends' weddings have maybe seen both sides.

My own wedding was a civil ceremony. The boneheads wouldn't let my camera up in time for the vows, but my mother in law had smuggled in her CDR Mavica and took a few shots. Technically, they are not the greatest, but their main function is to bring that moment back to our minds.

After all that, the thing my wife regrets is not having a "proper church wedding," not the lack of top quality pictures. We were broke at the time, and a church wedding was not in the cards, nor was a proper photographer.

It takes all kinds to make the world go 'round.


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## kundalini (Jul 3, 2009)

JerryPH said:


> Well.. they say 3rd time's the charm... lol !!


 Unlikely, but by happenstance it occurs, I'll give you a shout.


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## JerryPH (Jul 3, 2009)

Moglex said:


> JerryPH said:
> 
> 
> > Well.. they say 3rd time's the charm... lol !!
> ...



You do not seem to grasp that they tell a family member that they may not care, but in their heart of hearts, they are truly sorry they asked and would give almost anything to have had the foresight to get someone else... once cousin Jimmy and his dSLR gives them 700 blurred unrecognizable shots.  Think that would not happen?  Re-read this thread... it just did.

If they *really* did not care, they would not do it in the first place.


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## Moglex (Jul 4, 2009)

JerryPH said:


> You do not seem to grasp that they tell a family member that they may not care, but in their heart of hearts, they are truly sorry they asked and would give almost anything to have had the foresight to get someone else... once cousin Jimmy and his dSLR gives them 700 blurred unrecognizable shots.  Think that would not happen?  Re-read this thread... it just did.
> 
> If they *really* did not care, they would not do it in the first place.



Ahh, right.

So this is a case where anyone who says something that disagrees with your view simply does not know what they actually think. But you do.

Just to let you know, you really believe Sony make the finest cameras and lenses. The fact that you might believe you think that Canon or Nikon do is just an illusion. In your heart of hearts you desperately wish you were shooting on a Sony P&S. :lmao:


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## Clawed (Jul 4, 2009)

JerryPH said:


> Moglex said:
> 
> 
> > JerryPH said:
> ...


 
Well, if the B&G are not honest with themselves, that is their problem. Might sound harsh, but if they 'in their heart of hearts' want mind-blowing wedding photos, they should take a bit more time making a careful selection. It's one thing if a photographer misrepresents themselves. It's quite another when they choose a photog just to save a few bucks or give a friend a chance.

Also, I know you have said that you have seen the tears and heard the sobbing. Was this a wedding you shot, or did you happen to be there when the bride was presented the photos? What was not delivered that should have been?


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## Andrew Boyd (Jul 5, 2009)

So you've learned a big, big lesson: don't take on another one of these until you're better equipped and a LOT more experienced. Photography can have a lot of the "hard knocks" school in it.
Andrew Boyd
TheDiscerningPhotographer.com


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## JerryPH (Jul 6, 2009)

Clawed said:


> Well, if the B&G are not honest with themselves, that is their problem.


No quite.  If the photographer is honest about his or her skills, he will refuse and possibly help find someone who is.



Clawed said:


> Also, I know you have said that you have seen the tears and heard the sobbing. Was this a wedding you shot, or did you happen to be there when the bride was presented the photos? What was not delivered that should have been?



LOL... I have brains enough and a small enough ego to know when I could and could not shoot a wedding... it was not me, but I have seen my cousin, best friend's wife and my own first wedding... freaking disasters all thanks to the blatant incompetence of the photographers.  To see that person sobbing and wracked ... indescribable.

Now, according to my mentor, I am ready to be a full 2nd shooter, since he has been looking at all my work, selling it and now offered me the position (I accepted, conditionally, based on a coming conversation).  

Personally, I feel a few more weddings practicing is what I will do, but it is nice to have someone  tell you "Time to move up, you're ready to do it now!"

Edit:
I'm in a private wedding photography forum, and closely reading the horror story of a really good pro who did EVERYTHING to please the Ms. BrideZilla... it is still going to go to court, and OMG, the world of pain that this guy is going through...  I think that in the future, I'll be adding one more recommendation to the "must have" list... you must be a member of PPA.  Because he is, they are providing him with a lawyer and everything... and all he pays is $200.  The lawyers are specialists in this field and hopefully they totally railroad the situation and set things good.


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## UUilliam (Jul 6, 2009)

Sounds harsh jerry, keep us updated!!

In relation to this thread.

I personally would rather my wedding photos being ruined for free other than paying £800 for a pro photographer and them be ruined...
My aunts, brother in law got married recently and the photographer was this guy, Melrose Photography, the photo's are rubbish, over exposed, no composition and seem random...

here's their gallery, Wedding of Ross & Mandy
I argued with my aunt that maybe he just threw up every image he shot onto the site so people can decide to buy them or not.. but out of all the images there is possibly 10 - 20 decent ones... thats bad for a guy with "14 years experience"


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## K_Pugh (Jul 6, 2009)

^ Yeah for his years experience it does look like he's still got a lot to learn. Looks to me he's not in full control of his flash, overpowering a lot of the time. Faces look pale to the extent they're actually white in some photos. Some of the post processing effects are overused and look a little dated. As you say though there are a good few images which are good in there, so not a complete disaster. 

Going by his website it looks as if he's not too clued up on computers and design so I reckon he's still learning a lot about post processing digital files.

No idea who he is but I recognised the name somehow.. sure enough he's in glasgow, not far away, probably seen him searching Google or something.


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## Clawed (Jul 6, 2009)

JerryPH said:


> Edit:
> I'm in a private wedding photography forum, and closely reading the horror story of a really good pro who did EVERYTHING to please the Ms. BrideZilla... it is still going to go to court, and OMG, the world of pain that this guy is going through... I think that in the future, I'll be adding one more recommendation to the "must have" list... you must be a member of PPA. Because he is, they are providing him with a lawyer and everything... and all he pays is $200. The lawyers are specialists in this field and hopefully they totally railroad the situation and set things good.


 
Wow, that's pretty much why I do not ever know if I could go full-on into weddings. Not sure I want to be getting sued by a bride for 'bad pics' (which can be, _to an extent_, subjective).

Jerry, did you get a chance to see the pictures that were given to the bride? Was this situation a result of bad pics, or the photographer missing key pictures (or something worse) :shock:


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## JerryPH (Jul 6, 2009)

The guy is a fantastic photographer, the pics were incredible.  The bride is a major bytch.  She sent a list of greivences, mostly bogus, he counters with a factual and accurate account of how he value added close to $1500 in time and product OVER AND ABOVE what is in the contract and how she cost him money by not showing to meetings, being late for e-sesssions, not following the schedule, etc... she said b-o-l-l-o-c-k-s and said "next stop... my lawyer".  He cut all communications and got the lawyers from PPA involved.

I am not going to get into more info, this is a public forum and I would not want to jeopardize his stance.  The info here, let me tell you is VERY similar with at least 3 photographers that I know of currently.

The main issue is, it doesn't matter who is right, this guy can lose a ton of credibility, business over this person who, IMHO doesn't have a legal leg to stand on... in spite of this, she is counting on the fact that the photographer would rather back down, eat the loss and not risk the bad PR, which could easily ruin most small businesses.

People, if you are doing this... GET liability insurance on top of equipment insurance and if you live in the USA... join the PPA!


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## UUilliam (Jul 6, 2009)

she probably couldnt afford him so she paid what she had then thought "if i sue him then he'll give me my money back + i get my images = happy me "


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## JerryPH (Jul 6, 2009)

Probably something like that, I don't know 100% of all the details.  Just seems so petty and hurtful.


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## Reese's PB Luver (Jul 20, 2009)

Never leave items alone at a wedding/reception; ppl (non-guests) wander around such events for the sole purpose of stealing.  At my cousins' wedding (many years ago), somebody had their wedding card to the couple stolen out of their purse (a lot of ppl put a money gift in cards and this card did have money in it) and my father had his Canon SLR camera stolen (he put it down when we were in the family formal shots) and such things like that.  The hotel said things like that happen all the time.

Did you not have a pocket you could have put the card into?  (Protect it by keeping it in the case it came with or by getting a multi-card case.)


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## JerryPH (Jul 20, 2009)

Read the thread, it's pretty much all hashed out and the bottom line *very* clear... the cards were eventually found, not that it helped the bride any.  This is a good example of why, unless you KNOW how to shoot a wedding... to not do it.

Believe it or not, though still a disaster for the bride, this is far from the saddest case I know of.


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