# How much does health cost? rant I guess



## mmaria (Sep 22, 2014)

Ok so...

A bit of intro...

Ever since I was a teenager "those days" (yep women related) were extremely painful for me. I've been taking various painkillers and their combination and/or injections for the pain. The trouble is, after this many years I became intolerant, allergic, or immune on lots of them, so from time to time I had/have to change what I take and how. Nothing helps and I'm completely out of order during those days, no work, no nothing, just bed and pain. To describe the level of pain I'll mention that I've experienced kidney stone, a tooth/finger operation under inflammation, and been trough 2 childbirths without painkillers; except for the first childbirth nothing made me faint, I endured the pain, this did make me faint..

Last week was really tough for me because the pain lasted for 5 days. Usually it lasts 2 days. It's exhausting both physically and psychologically. I went to see a new doctor (30 years of experience and I heard good things about him). I immediately saw on his face that he doesn't have an explanation. To this day none of the doctors I saw couldn't figure out the reason of that excruciating pain (if you are a doctor or know some doctor, just tell me your theory, every opinion is welcomed because I'm desperate).

(Sorry for the long intro, but maybe, maybe I'll get a theory or two from someone who read this and finally get rid of this trouble) so....

During the exam I mentioned the medicine I was taking while I was pregnant and he said: " Oh, that  medicine is no longer in use." "Really? Why? I know lots of women who were using that medicine." "Well, it's not that safe and Medical Association decided to get rid of it..." (I know I was against it in the first place but I was hospitalized and every dr was telling the same. I wonder what they give to pregnant ladies now for the same reason as mine was!?)

After two minutes he mentioned contraceptive pills. I tried them when I was  15 maybe and the pain was still there, I told him, he didn't really believe it and he said that the only solution he has to offer me are contraceptive pills.  I asked which one would he recommend and remembered the ones that were all over flyers, posters in hospitals and every dr would recommend them... He said: "Well, those are no longer in use also" "Why?" "They're just not safe so Medical Association decided to get rid of it"... those particular pills were aimed for young girls market. How many girls were using those hormone bombs!? 
I googled for the new ones he mentioned and what I got? "very dangerous" and they're out of the market in several countries.

I don't know how many drugs I've taken so far for various reasons and I always wonder what really I'm taking. Yes, I'm aware that no drug is safe and perfect and everything has some side effects but I don't feel like doctors were giving me information about what can go wrong with certain drugs. Who can tell me what I'm doing to my body after 15 years of taking that amount of strong pain killers?

When we will stop being guinea pigs? I guess never. Pharmaceutical industry is focused on making money not helping people.

I don't know how much money I've tossed on doctors or drugs so far... but this is not about the money it's about everything else.


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## runnah (Sep 22, 2014)

Well its a good with the bad type situation. Some drugs are amazing examples of modern medicine while some are cash grabs. In our country there is very much a "take a pill to solve a problem" type of mentality. So some companies have scrambled to find a pill for damn near ever major and minor problem. 

Drug companies are still a business and they still have to turn a profit. Doctors do get perks for prescribing a particular company's pills so take that into consideration. I do think doctors are over prescribing these days. 

p.s. sorry your lady business is in disarray.


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## Braineack (Sep 22, 2014)

mmaria said:


> When we will stop being guinea pigs? I guess never. Pharmaceutical industry is focused on making money not helping people..



Here's what you can do:  Stop ever taking medicine--no aspirin, no anesthesia, no nothing.  Put them out of business.  Show them you won't take their **** anymore.  In fact, also stop going to doctors; they are just part of the medical industrial complex and are just overpaid drug pushers with no real training or vested interest in actually helping your life.


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## runnah (Sep 22, 2014)

Braineack said:


> mmaria said:
> 
> 
> > When we will stop being guinea pigs? I guess never. Pharmaceutical industry is focused on making money not helping people..
> ...



I think it's more "stop taking pills for BS problems." There are pills for everything, from life saving blood pressure medicine to pills that make your skin smoother.


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## Braineack (Sep 22, 2014)

I'm still trying to figure out how health insurance will cover the little blue pill, yet lasik corrective eye surgery is cosmetic.


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## mmaria (Sep 22, 2014)

runnah said:


> Well its a good with the bad type situation. Some drugs are amazing examples of modern medicine while some are cash grabs. In our country there is very much a "take a pill to solve a problem" type of mentality. So some companies have scrambled to find a pill for damn near ever major and minor problem.
> Drug companies are still a business and they still have to turn a profit. Doctors do get perks for prescribing a particular company's pills so take that into consideration. I do think doctors are over prescribing these days.


 completely agree



> p.s. sorry your lady business is in disarray.


 awwww thanks 



Braineack said:


> mmaria said:
> 
> 
> > When we will stop being guinea pigs? I guess never. Pharmaceutical industry is focused on making money not helping people..
> ...


 there's no need for this kind of reply really...  My intention wasn't to say that everything pharmaceutical industry does/make is wrong. My post clearly show that I depend on medicine and how things are I'll depend on them in the future...


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## runnah (Sep 22, 2014)

Braineack said:


> I'm still trying to figure out how health insurance will cover the little blue pill, yet lasik corrective eye surgery is cosmetic.



Yeah that is a weird one. Or how powerful painkillers are prescribed for things like sprained ankles.


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## Braineack (Sep 22, 2014)

> Braineack said:
> 
> 
> > Here's what you can do:  Stop ever taking medicine--no aspirin, no anesthesia, no nothing.  Put them out of business.  Show them you won't take their **** anymore.  In fact, also stop going to doctors; they are just part of the medical industrial complex and are just overpaid drug pushers with no real training or vested interest in actually helping your life.
> ...



My hyperbole yields for no one!


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## Designer (Sep 22, 2014)

This is odd; only men have responded so far.

Anyway, I wish I knew some specifics, but perhaps you should start looking at alternative approaches, such as Naturopathy, etc.

AANP - American Association of Naturopathic Physicians: Natural Medicine. Real Solutions.

Homeopathy,

List of homeopathic preparations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Or simply detoxification:

10 Ways to Detoxify Your Body | Detox | Cleanse | Gaiam Life

Note: this short list is not exhaustive by any means.


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## Wizard1500 (Sep 22, 2014)

I retired as an IT manager at a hospital.....I worked at that hospital for 31 years - never in direct pt. care, but you still see what goes on.....
I also suffer from daily pain and breathing difficulties.....I have less than 35% lung capacity....I have had pneumonia 9 times, and have had 3 plueral effusions.  I come down with bronchitis at least twice per year...... During that past 50 years, I have been on no less than 10 different anti-biotics.....they work for a few years, and I become immune to them......I have also been on morphine at least 4 times....in 2009, I was receiving morphone injected via IV every 2 hrs for 3 solid months......I understand pain.....

You CANNOT give up on medicine, because the alternative can have a very short end......Having said that, I have no love for big pharm., but I do understand that without profits, they are unable to research new cures.......are doctors some sort of devine beings?....NO.....but, at least in this country, they study for a very long time to be able to practice their trade....the reason for that is money, but, without Dr's, big pharm, and the entire industry around modern medice, there is only one alternative.....death......I know, I've faced it my entire life.......I am not afraid to die, but there is absolutely no reason to hurry it along.....

I do hope you can receive the healing you need.....my advice is to find a specialist that helps you.....here, I believe the best medical care is received at teaching hospitals.....


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## limr (Sep 22, 2014)

Oh, let's go ahead and say the really ludicrous part out loud - insurance companies cover Viagra, yes, but fight tooth and nail to not have to cover birth control. I say what's needed is not a pill strike but a sex strike.

I agree with runnah - it's more about not taking pills when we don't need them. But sometimes people DO need them and there's not much of a choice. My "woman problems" weren't as severe as yours, maria, but they were still really bad, and sorry, brainy, but if you told me to just stop taking pills when I was in the middle of that pain, I would have aimed my foot right at your gentlemen's sausage 

Maria, what I can say is that maybe you should do some research on the kinds of birth control that are available to you and consider trying this route again. Formulations have changed a lot and they've learned better how to balance the hormones in each pill. I'm not necessarily pushing this solution, but just saying that things have obviously changed since your were 15 and it might be worth investigating.

And keep getting second opinions.

Has any doctor ever recommended a surgical treatment?


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## mmaria (Sep 22, 2014)

Designer, thank you... I've tried many many things but nothing nothing helped


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## mishele (Sep 22, 2014)

I'm sorry to hear you go through this, sweets. This is probably a silly question but have you searched the net for other women that are having the same issue as you? I'm sure there is something out there to help you, it's just finding it. 

As far as drugs go, I agree with runnah. Most people are looking for the easy way out of everything. The magic pill to solve all the problems we have in life. In away, we are still living in the old days when some guy stood on a soap box with a cure all syrup. hehe Now we just have fancier ways to advertise it.


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## sscarmack (Sep 22, 2014)

I have nothing to offer you, but I will offer you a virtual hug and hope you the best.


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## Stacy Morin (Sep 22, 2014)

I know I am new here but I am a very "open book" kind of gal! (you will see after this post) Don't get me going on drug companies or Insurances! Our family recently just switched to a different insurance company through the "Marketplace" because Anthem was going to go up by 24%! This new insurance has overall better pricing and coverage, HOWEVER put a particular drug  that my son takes in a Tier 3, which means they don't cover it until the deductible is met-then they cover at 80% for a 1200.00 maximum. Which actually isn't too bad right? But paying $425.00 for a one month supply was a really tough PILL to swallow!

Now onto "lady part" issues: Mmaria, I assume you are taking about heavy, horrible painful menstrual cycles? Please feel free to Private Message Me (is there away to do that on here?) Or ask away on here, I'm not shy! I had a hysterectomy 2 years ago and it was the BEST thing I ever did because I had similar issues! (I have had my children and kept my ovaries   Just my two cents into this conversation!


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## runnah (Sep 22, 2014)

Designer said:


> This is odd; only men have responded so far.
> 
> Anyway, I wish I knew some specifics, but perhaps you should start looking at alternative approaches, such as Naturopathy, etc.
> 
> ...



Yeah I won't turn this into a fight but let's just say all of those are as effective as waving a magic wand over an affected area.


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## runnah (Sep 22, 2014)

limr said:


> I agree with runnah - it's more about not taking pills when we don't need them. But sometimes people DO need them and there's not much of a choice. My "woman problems" weren't as severe as yours, maria, but they were still really bad, and sorry, brainy, but if you told me to just stop taking pills when I was in the middle of that pain, I would have aimed my foot right at your gentlemen's sausage



It'd be like trying to take a steak away from a lion.

But I think you should all learn to just tough it out and deal with it. 

*runs away*


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## mmaria (Sep 22, 2014)

Wizard1500 said:


> You CANNOT give up on medicine, because the alternative can have a very short end......Having said that, I have no love for big pharm., but I do understand that without profits, they are unable to research new cures.......are doctors some sort of devine beings?....NO.....but, at least in this country, they study for a very long time to be able to practice their trade....the reason for that is money, but, without Dr's, big pharm, and the entire industry around modern medice, there is only one alternative.....death......I know, I've faced it my entire life.......I am not afraid to die, but there is absolutely no reason to hurry it along.....
> I do hope you can receive the healing you need.....my advice is to find a specialist that helps you.....here, I believe the best medical care is received at teaching hospitals.....


 I see that you completely understand what am I saying...

 I've been to many doctors and after a while I started to research about other solutions because my stomach wasn't able to endure almost any kind of pill any more. So I was trying everything anyone mention, and among else I was literary forced by my health state to change my diet, I quit smoking, I quit drinking alcohol, I meditate, I did yoga, I tried remedies... and so on... I "fixed" a lot, but not this issue. 

As for specialists, I've been to 4 different countries and I've seen so many doctors that I can't really put a number on it, and none of their recommendation worked. 

I can't give up because so far the only thing I'm left with are painkillers.


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## pgriz (Sep 22, 2014)

My wife used to have very wicked menstrual cramps when she was younger (both prior to childbirth and after), and the various doctors she consulted weren't of much help.  There were various tests done to be sure that she didn't have cancer, or a diverted colon, or other possible cause.  She also was prescribed various pills, none of which really helped her.  The symptoms diminished over time, and essentially stopped with menopause.  One of my daughters seems to have the same issues, so perhaps there's a genetic component to this.  No easy or obvious solution, unfortunately.  However, as my wife muttered while going through one of the episodes: "If a man was feeling this kind of stuff, I'm sure we'd already have the cure within a year!".  Hard to disagree.


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## mmaria (Sep 22, 2014)

limr said:


> Maria, what I can say is that maybe you should do some research on the kinds of birth control that are available to you and consider trying this route again. Formulations have changed a lot and they've learned better how to balance the hormones in each pill. I'm not necessarily pushing this solution, but just saying that things have obviously changed since your were 15 and it might be worth investigating.


 I was talking about the pills he recommended me this time. I guess I have to try, because I don't really have  achoice. I'll try almost everything.



> And keep getting second opinions.


 yeah... and the third, the fourth... the hundredth... I'm exhausted  



> Has any doctor ever recommended a surgical treatment?


 nope, because everything that could be removed is perfectly healthy


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## mmaria (Sep 22, 2014)

mishele said:


> I'm sorry to hear you go through this, sweets.


 



> This is probably a silly question but have you searched the net for other women that are having the same issue as you?


yep... nothing... what works for some didn't work for me... and so on...



> I'm sure there is something out there to help you, it's just finding it.


 well... I'm running a+out of patience after searching fro the solution for 18 years


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## mmaria (Sep 22, 2014)

sscarmack said:


> I have nothing to offer you, but I will offer you a virtual hug and hope you the best.


c'mon    that helps too


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## runnah (Sep 22, 2014)

Sounds like it's just your cross to bear. Some women barely get cramps and others are crippled by it. You can thank your genetics.

Not to be rude but does being "intimate" help or hurt?


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## sscarmack (Sep 22, 2014)

mmaria said:


> sscarmack said:
> 
> 
> > I have nothing to offer you, but I will offer you a virtual hug and hope you the best.
> ...


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## mmaria (Sep 22, 2014)

Stacy Morin said:


> Now onto "lady part" issues: Mmaria, I assume you are taking about heavy, horrible painful menstrual cycles? Please feel free to Private Message Me (is there away to do that on here?) Or ask away on here, I'm not shy! I had a hysterectomy 2 years ago and it was the BEST thing I ever did because I had similar issues! (I have had my children and kept my ovaries   Just my two cents into this conversation!



I'm 31. I think I'm too young for that solution.... but... can't say I've never thought about that...


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## mmaria (Sep 22, 2014)

runnah said:


> Sounds like it's just your cross to bear. Some women barely get cramps and others are crippled by it. You can thank your genetics.


 In my case it has nothing to do with genetics. None of the women in my family, and from both sides were experiencing that much pain.



> Not to be rude but does being "intimate" help or hurt?


 oh runnah, I appreciate your choice of words  but you weren't specific... exactly when being intimate?


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## runnah (Sep 22, 2014)

mmaria said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> > Sounds like it's just your cross to bear. Some women barely get cramps and others are crippled by it. You can thank your genetics.
> ...



True but it could just be the cards you were dealt.

When? I don't know, after a couple glasses of wine.


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## mishele (Sep 22, 2014)

This is what runnah is talking about...
Happy Sheets
Horizontal Hoolah
The Dirty
Bumpin Uglys
Play Hide The Canoli
The Slap And Tickle
Got it?!


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## runnah (Sep 22, 2014)

mishele said:


> This is what runnah is talking about...
> Happy Sheets
> Horizontal Hoolah
> The Dirty
> ...



Ahem, I call it "making love". Of course I am a classy kind of guy.


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## CameraClicker (Sep 22, 2014)

I'm another male, and a retired engineer, not a doctor.  So, first I'll offer sympathy.  And, some observations.

Pain killers are interesting.  I'm familiar with them because of migraine.  Both mine and other's.  Migraine stops the stomach so few oral painkillers are effective.  I don't get many migraines, fortunately.  Others in the family have found that taking a lot of painkiller results in a kind of addiction.  You get rebound headaches when you stop taking pills for your headache.  I imagine taking frequent painkillers for other conditions would result in a similar situation.  Getting off the painkiller is an arduous process and we were warned that once off, you have to deal with the pain without painkillers.  Taking painkillers again, apparently, puts you back into the old cycle.

Some engineers are good diagnosticians, others not so much.  I imagine it is the same with doctors.  The body is complex and there are a lot of external factors, food, drink and environment to mention three general classes.  The cause of migraines is complicated to determine because it is a mix of physiologic and environmental factors.  Many who are prone to migraine have blood vessels that don't dilate properly after constriction.  In the general population, drinking coffee, for instance, causes constriction, but after the coffee has been processed, the vessels dilate again.  Not so with migraine sufferers.  So, you consume something that causes constriction.  Later you consume something else that causes constriction, and later still, something else.  Eventually your brain figures out it is not getting enough blood, and you get the aura.  Your brain then dumps the chemical that dilates your vessels, way too much of it, and your vessels dilate too much, which causes the pain.  Often, this means that coffee, tomatoes, wine, and many other things can be traced to one migraine, but aren't obvious causes in other migraines.  Some people report that changes in atmospheric pressure can trigger migraine.  A few years ago we discovered the steam from boiling a mixture of Chinese herbs can trigger my migraine.  We still haven't figured out exactly which herbs.  

Anyway, a long way of saying there are many factors affecting you and your condition.  Until you have tracked down the relevant ones, you will suffer.  Some doctors may be better at helping than others, modern medicine has some amazing diagnostic programs which can help rule out some factors.  Your own careful observation of everything, over several months, might be the most helpful.  

As someone already said, The Pill comes in many formulations and has changed quite a bit since it was introduced.  One formulation may be helpful and another harmful.  I don't have any suggestions about determining which might help or harm.


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## terri (Sep 22, 2014)

I'm so sorry you have to suffer like this, sweetie.   

So you are saying that endometriosis, or any related similar condition, has been absolutely and positively ruled out?   It can mask itself in many ways.


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## Stacy Morin (Sep 22, 2014)

I first had a Uterine Ablation,  it is only then they found the severe endometriosis. That is why I had a hysterectomy. How can they totally know everything is healthy unless they have a look see. My other word of advice would be to maybe try acupuncture. I know it works wonders for some ladies


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## JacaRanda (Sep 22, 2014)

Medical maryjane;  an option that should be considered.


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## mmaria (Sep 22, 2014)

JacaRanda said:


> Medical maryjane;  an option that should be considered.


have some to share?


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## mmaria (Sep 22, 2014)

terri said:


> I'm so sorry you have to suffer like this, sweetie.


 these hugs really help!  thank you



> So you are saying that endometriosis, or any related similar condition, has been absolutely and positively ruled out?   It can mask itself in many ways.


 Yes.  Everything is just in perfect condition, no endometriosis .... but thanks for trying 



Stacy Morin said:


> I first had a Uterine Ablation,  it is only then they found the severe endometriosis. That is why I had a hysterectomy. How can they totally know everything is healthy unless they have a look see. My other word of advice would be to maybe try acupuncture. I know it works wonders for some ladies


 yeah... I haven't tried acupuncture and I would like to... I heard that it can really help but in a place I live now I don't have the chance to do acupuncture regularly.
Because it's somewhat similar I'll mention that I had chronic sinus issues/headaches for years and modern medicine didn't help, what did help, amazingly, was acupressure 

Did I say: Welcome


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## mmaria (Sep 22, 2014)

CameraClicker said:


> Pain killers are interesting.  I'm familiar with them because of migraine. ... Others in the family have found that taking a lot of painkiller results in a kind of addiction.  You get rebound headaches when you stop taking pills for your headache.  I imagine taking frequent painkillers for other conditions would result in a similar situation.  Getting off the painkiller is an arduous process and we were warned that once off, you have to deal with the pain without painkillers.  Taking painkillers again, apparently, puts you back into the old cycle.



Just to mention again that I'm dealing with this for every month in about 18 years (obviously 2 pregnancies excluded). I've been through different stages of accepting and dealing with this "state".  I remember how I used to have almost panic attacks when I start to feel that the pain is coming. I would think about where is the nearest ambulance/hospital so I could get injections-2 shots of different painkiller (in the period when I couldn't take any painkiller orally).
Then, in one period of time I was so sick and tired of medicine/injections that I tried everything I could to get through the pain without it. Friends were with me, helping me, almost cheering for me. Meditating, breathing... I would cry out of pain and after an hour or so someone would help me get to the nearest hospital.

When I was in Tokyo Disneyland I completely forgot about dates and... in one moment alarm, the pain came. I told our coordinator about it and asked if there is ER here or something, I need  some medication. We went in some "office" they couldn't give me anything except something that's equivalent to aspirin... "Ok", I thought, this is my chance to go through this without painkillers. I'm in an excellent mood and really don't want to cause any trouble to our teacher or coordinator. I'll give my bestest to go through this." I endured an hour and a half before I fainted out of pain. They transferred me into a hospital. Doctor said that everything is ok and gave me painkillers. So I guess I caused the trouble for them...Everyone was so afraid for me because they didn't hear/see anything similar.



> Some engineers are good diagnosticians, others not so much.  I imagine it is the same with doctors.  The body is complex and there are a lot of external factors, food, drink and environment to mention three general classes.  ...Anyway, a long way of saying there are many factors affecting you and your condition.  Until you have tracked down the relevant ones, you will suffer.  Some doctors may be better at helping than others, modern medicine has some amazing diagnostic programs which can help rule out some factors.  Your own careful observation of everything, over several months, might be the most helpful.


I observed everything I could. From the first day I felt the pain till now everything is different. I am a different person with different habits, different food, different way of thinking, different attitude... different .... the pain is still here... and different doctors would just set up the face "I give up"



> As someone already said, The Pill comes in many formulations and has changed quite a bit since it was introduced.  One formulation may be helpful and another harmful.  I don't have any suggestions about determining which might help or harm.


I've realised that I wasn't clear  in my op. The pills I took when I was 15 I don't even remember their name. I asked him about pills that were in every flyer in hospitals private or public 2 years ago


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## JacaRanda (Sep 22, 2014)

mmaria said:


> JacaRanda said:
> 
> 
> > Medical maryjane;  an option that should be considered.
> ...



I don't and I wish I did.  I have seen first hand how it has helped with pain when sooooooooooooooo many other drugs have not.
It should be an option taken very seriously.  Hopefully, you will not have to deal with a bunch of BULL in order to obtain it in whatever form that may be helpful.


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## mattymags (Sep 22, 2014)

I am sorry to hear about your pain, and although I am a male my wife had extremely painful and debilitating cycles. The simplest place to start is also the most obvious and the hardest. We had to totally overhaul our diet, and really pay attention to what we were feeding our bodies. Everything that you put in the gut has a direct influence on your hormones, and the regulation of your body. You need to find a doctor like this, PMS: Getting Your Hormones in Balance So Your Period is Not A Curse! - Aviva Romm 
Ever since our switch to eating whole and healthy foods, she does much better, and we both are happier people. It is truly amazing the damage that processed food can do to the body. I am not a doctor but from experience I have cured alot of pain (degenerative disk disease), just by overhauling my diet.
Thats just my two cents..but its so easy that it is worth a shot.


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## Stacy Morin (Sep 22, 2014)

mmaria said:


> Stacy Morin said:
> 
> 
> > Now onto "lady part" issues: Mmaria, I assume you are taking about heavy, horrible painful menstrual cycles? Please feel free to Private Message Me (is there away to do that on here?) Or ask away on here, I'm not shy! I had a hysterectomy 2 years ago and it was the BEST thing I ever did because I had similar issues! (I have had my children and kept my ovaries   Just my two cents into this conversation!
> ...



Yes, you are too young for that-darn-I would try acupuncture and Progesterone cream. You can buy it the health food store.


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## CameraClicker (Sep 22, 2014)

In another thread, here, I mentioned I have respiratory allergies.  Mould, mildew, ragweed, etc.  I used to take antihistamine pills for months at a time.  I started going out with my wife in February and switched to her Cantonese diet simply because we were always together, so ate the same food.  In September, when my allergies usually made an appearance, there were no symptoms.  We took a week long trip to see coloured leaves and by the end of the week my allergies were present.  After being home a few days, they cleared up!  I thought it was a lack of beef, so I have avoided beef from August to first frost, for 20 years.  This January I had a couple of attacks and figured out, it's not the beef, it's the bun!  My diet has been very low in wheat, but thanks to frequenting a breakfast restaurant Saturday mornings, I had been consuming much more wheat the last year or so.  This allergy season I have been eating some beef and avoiding all wheat -- so far, no symptoms.  Wheat is in so much processed food, attempting total abstention has been an exercise in reading ingredient labels.  It has meant avoiding cake, cookies, pie, hot dogs, hamburgers, grilled cheese sandwiches, KFC and MacDonald's entire menus, and on and on.

We picked up a book called Wheat Belly from Costco, it's quite the book.  It blames wheat for a number of society's ills.  And, it corroborates my discovery that wheat affects my allergies.  Beyond my allergies, other conditions the author blames on wheat are enough to motivate me to avoid wheat year round.  We were going through Costco's book table last weekend and found a book about a Paleo diet, which might be too much for us, though it is filled with wheat free diet recipies, so it caught our attention.

I did a quick search and found this:  6 Reasons Why The Paleo Diet Is Great For Women      In the 6 paragraphs of reasons to consider the diet, PMS and cramps are mentioned several times.  It might be worth your time to try it for a few months.


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## snerd (Sep 22, 2014)

I can, and will, offer you any of these items if they might possibly be of use in curing what ails ya!

6 fine thread screws, plates and rods from last back surgery.
1 titanium rod and joint from shoulder replacement
If you cannot use them, I'll offer a big  and a  to a future cure!!


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## mmaria (Sep 23, 2014)

JacaRanda said:


> mmaria said:
> 
> 
> > JacaRanda said:
> ...


In my country marijuana is not legalized yet. Doctors just don't want to go in that direction so people who have a cancer f.e have to find some other way to get it. Interesting is that my hb's cousin is a doctor, has cancer and use it
To be honest I've never though about marijuana as a cure for this trouble.... I got to try it.


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## mmaria (Sep 23, 2014)

mattymags said:


> I am sorry to hear about your pain, and although I am a male my wife had extremely painful and debilitating cycles. The simplest place to start is also the most obvious and the hardest. We had to totally overhaul our diet, and really pay attention to what we were feeding our bodies. Everything that you put in the gut has a direct influence on your hormones, and the regulation of your body. You need to find a doctor like this, PMS: Getting Your Hormones in Balance So Your Period is Not A Curse! - Aviva Romm
> Ever since our switch to eating whole and healthy foods, she does much better, and we both are happier people. It is truly amazing the damage that processed food can do to the body. I am not a doctor but from experience I have cured alot of pain (degenerative disk disease), just by overhauling my diet.
> Thats just my two cents..but its so easy that it is worth a shot.





CameraClicker said:


> I I had been consuming much more wheat the last year or so.  This allergy season I have been eating some beef and avoiding all wheat -- so far, no symptoms.  Wheat is in so much processed food, attempting total abstention has been an exercise in reading ingredient labels.  It has meant avoiding cake, cookies, pie, hot dogs, hamburgers, grilled cheese sandwiches, KFC and MacDonald's entire menus, and on and on.


I quoted both of you because you're talking about diet. 
The thing is... I eat healthy. I don't smoke, don't drink alcohol ( and I'm sorry for the alcohol part  but my stomach can't stand it anymore, not a sip)  I haven't been eating any of processed food for years now.  I'll rarely drink soda or buy a juice. Almost everything that comes to my kitchen is organic. I can't remember when was the last time I ate fast food or similar. I don't consume a significant amount of sugar...

The thing is, even when I did eat meat/processed food, drink alcohol, smoke, and such the pain was still the same. I haven't noticed any difference.


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## mmaria (Sep 23, 2014)

snerd said:


> I can, and will, offer you any of these items if they might possibly be of use in curing what ails ya!
> 
> 6 fine thread screws, plates and rods from last back surgery.
> 1 titanium rod and joint from shoulder replacement
> If you cannot use them, I'll offer a big  and a  to a future cure!!


 I'll take a big hug and a beer (but you have to drink my beer also )


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## pgriz (Sep 23, 2014)

Maria, pain perception is a brain thing.  Just like hiccups come from mixed signals in the vagus nerve, sometimes pain perception is due to cross-signals.  I have a cousin who had excruciating pains in her knees and back since she was about 12 or so (she's 42 now).  Has been to many doctors, all kinds of specialists, and no-one could figure out why the pain originated (there were no signs of organic disease, no metabolic irregularities, nothing out of the ordinary for a young woman.  These bouts of pain were intermittent, and she never was able to identify any set of circumstances or food that triggered an attack.  However, the pains went away after her first pregnancy.  After a while they returned, and then went away again during and after her second pregnancy.  She's on her seventh child now.  And she/we still don't know the cause/source of the pains she was feeling before.  The best "explanation" she got was the hypothesis by one of the neurosurgeons she visited, that her pain nervous system somehow was getting signals from an unrelated set of nerves, and perceiving those as pain.  For now, she seems to be pain-free, but I'm not sure I'd recommend serial baby-making as a cure.


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## mmaria (Sep 23, 2014)

pgriz said:


> Maria, pain perception is a brain thing.  Just like hiccups come from mixed signals in the vagus nerve, sometimes pain perception is due to cross-signals.  I have a cousin who had excruciating pains in her knees and back since she was about 12 or so (she's 42 now).  Has been to many doctors, all kinds of specialists, and no-one could figure out why the pain originated (there were no signs of organic disease, no metabolic irregularities, nothing out of the ordinary for a young woman.  These bouts of pain were intermittent, and she never was able to identify any set of circumstances or food that triggered an attack.  However, the pains went away after her first pregnancy.  After a while they returned, and then went away again during and after her second pregnancy.  She's on her seventh child now.  And she/we still don't know the cause/source of the pains she was feeling before.  The best "explanation" she got was the hypothesis by one of the neurosurgeons she visited, that her pain nervous system somehow was getting signals from an unrelated set of nerves, and perceiving those as pain.  For now, she seems to be pain-free, but I'm not sure I'd recommend serial baby-making as a cure.


Paul, all I'm hearing from your post is : Be pregnant all the time or use marijuana 

On a serious note, everything is in our brains and my brain is messing with me. The trouble is how to reprogram/fix it? 

Or... do I just need to accept that it will be like that till I'm 50 or so? I struggle with accepting that and with the fact that I always need to find another painkiller... What will I use next month, because this one doesn't help anymore? A few days on it, double dosage of what is recommended for severe pain and I still had episodes  when I cried, couldn't move and couldn't speak.  

And... who gave a "disagree" to YOU!?


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## CameraClicker (Sep 23, 2014)

mmaria said:


> I quoted both of you because you're talking about diet.
> The thing is... I eat healthy. I don't smoke, don't drink alcohol ( and I'm sorry for the alcohol part  but my stomach can't stand it anymore, not a sip)  I haven't been eating any of processed food for years now.  I'll rarely drink soda or buy a juice. Almost everything that comes to my kitchen is organic. I can't remember when was the last time I ate fast food or similar. I don't consume a significant amount of sugar...
> 
> The thing is, even when I did eat meat/processed food, drink alcohol, smoke, and such the pain was still the same. I haven't noticed any difference.



It's not about eating "healthy", it's about eating ingredients your body likes and avoiding those that cause problems/pain.  Unfortunately you can't use anyone else as a reference, you have to work it out.  It may not be diet.  It may be dissolved chemicals in the water, or something you are breathing, or chemicals in soap, cosmetics, or something you touch.  

When troubleshooting complex systems, I like to get the simple/easy tests out of the way first, and move into more complex tests by breaking the system down into components, then try to test large blocks, half or thirds, to figure out where to look.  Once the large block is identified, breaking that into smaller blocks and repeating tests until the component is identified.  With diet and environment, there are thousands of things you are coming into contact with, so it will be a big job to find the cause.


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## mmaria (Sep 23, 2014)

CameraClicker said:


> It's not about eating "healthy", it's about eating ingredients your body likes and avoiding those that cause problems/pain.  Unfortunately you can't use anyone else as a reference, you have to work it out.  It may not be diet.  It may be dissolved chemicals in the water, or something you are breathing, or chemicals in soap, cosmetics, or something you touch.
> When troubleshooting complex systems, I like to get the simple/easy tests out of the way first, and move into more complex tests by breaking the system down into components, then try to test large blocks, half or thirds, to figure out where to look.  Once the large block is identified, breaking that into smaller blocks and repeating tests until the component is identified.  With diet and environment, there are thousands of things you are coming into contact with, so it will be a big job to find the cause.


yeah... I agree... but to be completely honest my previous answer was just avoiding because I know that this is a tough job. I tried it twice seriously because of my skin and gave up after a while... 

So to explain, I also have a sensitive skin and I it took me years to figure out what ingredients in cremes, lotions, shampoos and such is bothering me. Results were just ...funny, I guess because I really don't have any other proper word. Among else Panthenol bothers me. I've never heard that someone is bothered by Panthenol..

and Thank you for your posts!


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## limr (Sep 23, 2014)

Paul brings up something that I was actually thinking about. I know you've seen a lot of doctors - were they all gynecologists? Did you ever see other kinds of doctors? Specifically I was thinking about an endocrinologist or a neurologist. The pain is localized and limited to when your hormone balance changes - perhaps it's an issue with really drastic imbalance, or maybe something about that imbalance is interfering with the pain receptors, making nerve endings fire without real cause.

The hormone shift also causes a drop in magnesium levels, which is important for pain management. Have any of the doctors ever suggested taking a magnesium supplement? You'd take one starting the day before the pain is supposed to start (you said you can predict the dates, right?) and continue for 3-4 days. Not too much, though, because it can cause stomach problems. They say the daily dose for women is 320mg. I'd probably start lower and work up if you need to.

Your diet probably contains enough magnesium, but it might be worth looking into to see if there are certain vegetables to eat more of, or at least eat more of right before your period instead of taking a supplement.

I don't want to keep throwing the word "diet" at you because I know you eat healthy, but the pain might be hinting at certain deficiencies. I just read this in one of the articles I found: "One 2009 study looked at the vitamin D levels of people with chronic pain who were using opioid painkillers. Those who had a deficiency of vitamin D needed almost twice as high a dose of medication to control their pain.

Edwards now checks vitamin D levels in many of her patients with chronic pain. If they're lower than 50 to 70 nanograms/milliliter, she might recommend a supplement for natural pain relief."
That came from here: Natural Pain Relief: Chronic Pain Supplements

The idea is not just about eating healthy, but finding the foods and balance that can reduce inflammation, which is often the cause of so many pain management issues, and also address deficiencies (which still exist even in a healthy diet) that can contribute to pain.

And last but not least, one more hug for you!


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## mmaria (Sep 23, 2014)

Leonore, you brought up some really good points... here's what I have to say...



limr said:


> Paul brings up something that I was actually thinking about. I know you've seen a lot of doctors - were they all gynecologists? Did you ever see other kinds of doctors? Specifically I was thinking about an endocrinologist or a neurologist. The pain is localized and limited to when your hormone balance changes - perhaps it's an issue with really drastic imbalance, or maybe something about that imbalance is interfering with the pain receptors, making nerve endings fire without real cause.


Yes, I've seen endocrinologists also, and in different periods/stages in my life. Everything with my hormones is fine. 
Oxytocine is interesting for me but doctors don't find it interesting for me...

I've seen neurologist for a different brain related "thing" a year and a half ago, I did MR of the brain and everything was perfect. I haven't seen neurologist for this issue.



> The hormone shift also causes a drop in magnesium levels, which is important for pain management. Have any of the doctors ever suggested taking a magnesium supplement? You'd take one starting the day before the pain is supposed to start (you said you can predict the dates, right?) and continue for 3-4 days. Not too much, though, because it can cause stomach problems. They say the daily dose for women is 320mg. I'd probably start lower and work up if you need to.
> 
> Your diet probably contains enough magnesium, but it might be worth looking into to see if there are certain vegetables to eat more of, or at least eat more of right before your period instead of taking a supplement.
> 
> ...



Magnesium and vitamin D were also interesting to me... This theory also means that I have deficiency of Mg and D for whole of my life. Does it?

I was so hoping that I will solve my issues with Mg because I caught myself recently how I'm all of the sudden eating  more food rich in Mg....
My sister in law ( pharmacist) explained how Mg "works" and told me that in this case I would have that deficiency for whole my life. I thought: Damn!  But still, I'm putting on my skin a bit magnesium chloride these days 




> And last but not least, one more hug for you!


 oh I just loooove these hugs


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## Fred Berg (Sep 24, 2014)

Braineack said:


> I'm still trying to figure out how health insurance will cover the little blue pill, yet lasik corrective eye surgery is cosmetic.



Probably because you need to have an erection to procreate, but mostly the fumbling is done in the dark anyway.


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## molested_cow (Sep 25, 2014)

WEEEEEEEEEEEEED!!!!! Actually I am just trolling, but hey, it just may do something for you.
Meditation, acupuncture, Qi Gong, Tai Chi?


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