# Combining Multiple Flashes For More Light Output Works ????



## plainman007

Hi,

In theory if you put 2 flashes next to each other that should double your light output right ?

I used 4 flashes (triggered with 2.4 ghz triggers) together. All huddled together and pointing at the subject. Who was standing in the SHADE at 4.30pm sunlight. Still they hardly made any difference. Too dim. I had to blow them all to full power to get any useful output. Is this normal ? These were 4 x YN-460 IIs. Cam was at f7.1, 1/100th sec, ISO 100. 

Have any of you combined a number of flashes to combat the sun. If so id like to hear if this theory works in real life ?

Thanks...


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## MLeeK

If you are trying to overpower the sun-sounds about right! 
It's really hard to tell what you were doing without seeing the image though.


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## analog.universe

Subject to light distance is significant as well.  So.... how close were they?  If you're trying to get the most output, they should be at the closest distance possible that gets you the coverage you want.


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## plainman007

Hi,

Yes the distance was not more than 10 feet from the subject. And that was 4 flashes together. The area the subject was standing was shaded. But there was bounced sunlight ofcourse. But i dont think bounced light qualify as equal to direct sunlight right. Still the volume of light was very weak. At full power it was ok. But my question is have any of you clubbed 2 or more flashes together to get brighter more light volume.

Also when i mean combat the sun, i didnt mean literally overpower the sun. But just having enough light to work with at 4pm evening kind of light. But it seems 4 flashes (with 53 gn) together are too little.


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## 480sparky

plainman007 said:


> ......... I had to blow them all to full power to get any useful output. Is this normal ? These were 4 x YN-460 IIs..........



For such a low-power flash, yes.


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## plainman007

Oh ok. I was suspecting that. But the canon top of the line 580 ex is rated at GN 58 and this one is GN 53. Lets say its a low brightness etc. Still wont 2 (double the output) at least match up to one 580 ex ? But i was using 4 of these that too.


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## 480sparky

Depends on the flashes-to-subject distance.  How far apart were they?


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## plainman007

They were all huddled together. Maybe half an inch away from each other ? All were at 1/4 power and 10 feet from the subject who was standing in the shade. The flashes were also in the shade. Very dim lighting ensued. Then i made them all full power and the light just made up for what i wanted.


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## 480sparky

Ten feet?  That's a tall order even for high-$ OCFs.


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## plainman007

Your serious ? 4 flashes together cant deliver that power ? 

But technically 4 flashes together provides 4 x light power optically ?


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## MLeeK

Yes, but they aren't high output flashes, your exposure was very narrow at 7.1, 100 and 1/100 and you are trying to out shoot the sun.

4 candles are still pretty dim. While 4 suns are pretty bright... You're shooting with 4 candles.


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## 480sparky

plainman007 said:


> Your serious ? 4 flashes together cant deliver that power ?
> 
> But technically 4 flashes together provides 4 x light power optically ?



Yes.  But four times _what_?  

If you have a low guide number to _start_ with, four times that guide number will _still_ be a low guide number.


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## Rephargotohp

Assuming equal power, If You add one Flash the power will increase 1 stop, If you add two more flashes the power will increase 1 More stop.

You will have to shoot faily high power to match ambient...Even if you subject was in the shade if there was sunlight you were shooting through too, at 4:30 you could have had f/11 light in the backgroudn provided you were not shooting into the sun. (The sun will be 3 stops brighter at that time of day)

I was shooting last night AT 4:30 had f/8 background light on the beach. Was able to light model with a single 580EXII at 1/2 power with with a 2 Stop(Loss) diffuser in front and 5 foot from model ( you should move you flashes closer to) and had no problem.

Unless those things are NOT what they are rated at, I'm not sure why. Remember GN are not always the same, there are many ways to cheat a Guide Number and make it sound better


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## Rephargotohp

Joe MacNally regularly shoots with 3 Flashes per stand, But he is also sponsored by Nikon and hey can have 12 Flashes at a shoot and not worry. But at a certain point, it becomes stupid to have nmore than 2 flashes economically and it's time to just buy a studio strobe and battery, It's the only way you will get f/16 light with a diffuser on to match outdoor amabient


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## Buckster




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## plainman007

Yeah, Thats cool. Before i went for multiple speedlights i checked a few videos like this one here....


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## plainman007

And heres another one...for anyone who might have missed them.






Seeing the first video on here....thats 8 flashes alright but did you see the reach ? From the bridge right down to the surfers maybe about 20-30 feet or even further away im guessing.

So with my 4 flashes with GN 53 (i admit they arent SB900's) they cant even reach 10 feet ? Ive seen 1000s of shots on flickr and its quite apparent from thier own descriptions and set up explanations that the flashes were 8 feet, 7 feet and so on away from the subject. Ok but these were one canon 430 ex or 580 ex. Fine i agree. But i refuse to understand how 4 x 53 GN speedlights cannot reach 10 feet (when one SB800 can do the same). I cant grip the concept. I do understand the physics behind it all and about light falloff. Inverse square law and all that.

UNLESS....maybe only 2 of them are firing simultaneously ? and then the other 2 etc. Because i had each flash on its own independent trigger. But flash durations being 1/2000th of a sec and maybe even faster. To the naked eye it might look like all fired simultaneously. But maybe 2 of them fired not within the shutter speed range ? Im just thinking aloud here.


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## 480sparky

plainman007 said:


> Seeing the first video on here....thats 8 flashes alright but did you see the reach ? From the bridge right down to the surfers maybe about 20-30 feet or even further away im guessing..............



Yeah.  But he's not competing with the sun, either.


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## Buckster

Maybe you should try cranking them up, rather than firing them at a quarter power, and see what happens.


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## 480sparky

Buckster said:


> Maybe you should try cranking them up, rather  than firing them at a quarter power, and see what happens.



He did.



plainman007 said:


> ...... I had to blow them all to full power to get any useful output....


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## plainman007

Sparky > Yes hes shooting in a kind of twilight ambient. But to honestly tell you i was shooting in a spot that was kind of well shaded. The sun was outside. Imagine standing inside a restaurant canopy. While the sun is that too orangish and at 4-5 pm. So its already setting with long shadows and we are nowhere in the suns path. Like standing under a well shaded tree. So its only bounced ambient light and if you cant fight even that with 4 flashes firing together,, its sad...I mean im sad.


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## 480sparky

Yes, the laws of physics are quite sad.


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## Rephargotohp

plainman007 said:


> Sparky > Yes hes shooting in a kind of twilight ambient. But to honestly tell you i was shooting in a spot that was kind of well shaded. The sun was outside. Imagine standing inside a restaurant canopy. While the sun is that too orangish and at 4-5 pm. So its already setting with long shadows and we are nowhere in the suns path. Like standing under a well shaded tree. So its only bounced ambient light and if you cant fight even that with 4 flashes firing together,, its sad...I mean im sad.



Are you sure you are actualy getting all the flashes to fire correctly.

I had a problem  once when I tried using two differnt Recievers froim the same company but different models, It looked like all flash were friring at the same time to the eye, But only one was. The rest were firings a split second later that wasn't visible to the eye

With the conditiosn you shot at, You should have been able to do it with one flash. The Probelms people run into are when They have  a sun higher in the sky behind the subject, or conditions like you saw in that JM desert shot. What you shot if it is as described should not have been hard to light


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## 2WheelPhoto

GN* 53*?  

May want to check into some Vivitar 285's.  I bought a few from ebay for pennies and they rock.


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## plainman007

I was going to say the same ting rephargo said. God knows wether they fired in sync. Flash bursts being 1/800 > 1/2000th sec if im right depending on the power setting. Ofcourse higher power settings are slower and low powered bursts are shorter. The reason why i picked up 4 flashes (and im planning to buy 4 more) was that when i wanted short bursts but wanted more light volume depending on what im shooting, then 4 together would do the trick.

But in certain shots where the background was close to the subject, i could count 4 shadows layered , proof that all 4 fired ?

Another thing i noticed was if i put on the diffuser bag, as seen on ebay, with the elastic mouth, then the light drops by several stops i guess. What kind of diffusers do most of you use, that doesnt look too large and obtrusive (softboxes, umbrellas), but stuff like the inbuilt slideout diffusion panel and the plastic cap stofen like thing that you just cap onto the flash head ? Whats ur favourite for portable unobtrusive looking diffusers.


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## Buckster

Shutter speed cited is 1/100.  What camera are you using?


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## KmH

The Canon 580 EX II is rated at 190 (at _*ISO 100*_, feet) / *58* (meters); _*flash head at 105mm zoom setting*_.

The YN-460 II is rated 38/*5*_*3*_ (*ISO* 100/_*200*_) 

A GN of 58 at ISO *100* and a zoomed flash head (a more focused concentrated beam of light), is not nearly the same power as a GN of 53 at ISO *200*. At ISO 100 the YN-460 II will produce 1 full stop less light, or an GN of about 26.


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## plainman007

Kmh > yes i definitely understand that my economy YN-460 IIs cannot be on par with a 580 EX II. But im sure 2 of the YNs paired next to each other should be able to match up from pure simple math. Unless the YNs are lesser than 50% the brightness of the Canons.

Also i have a related question. Once the trigger is on top of my camera i cant set the flash to IInd curtain sync is it ?


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## plainman007

Buckster > Im using a canon 550d. I also have a canon 500d just in case there would be a difference ? But i assume not ?


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## gsgary

Why didn't you use a faster shutter speed 1/200 to reduce ambient light ? this is one of the reasons i kept my 1Dmk1 because it will sinc at 1/500


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## plainman007

I tried. But even then the flash output wouldnt and didnt change and it was quite low for 4 flashes blasting in one direction.


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## unpopular

plainman007 said:


> And heres another one...for anyone who might have missed them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seeing the first video on here....thats 8 flashes alright but did you see the reach ? From the bridge right down to the surfers maybe about 20-30 feet or even further away im guessing.
> 
> So with my 4 flashes with GN 53 (i admit they arent SB900's) they cant even reach 10 feet ? Ive seen 1000s of shots on flickr and its quite apparent from thier own descriptions and set up explanations that the flashes were 8 feet, 7 feet and so on away from the subject. Ok but these were one canon 430 ex or 580 ex. Fine i agree. But i refuse to understand how 4 x 53 GN speedlights cannot reach 10 feet (when one SB800 can do the same). I cant grip the concept. I do understand the physics behind it all and about light falloff. Inverse square law and all that.
> 
> UNLESS....maybe only 2 of them are firing simultaneously ? and then the other 2 etc. Because i had each flash on its own independent trigger. But flash durations being 1/2000th of a sec and maybe even faster. To the naked eye it might look like all fired simultaneously. But maybe 2 of them fired not within the shutter speed range ? Im just thinking aloud here.



What's behind the soft box at 1:49?

~~~

Honestly, I think this whole thing is just a stupid kludge, it's pointless, and cost ineffective. Even if it were possible.


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## cnutco

You need to also keep in mind that all of the videos posted on this thread are using *High Speed Sync* that is allowing for very *HIGH* shutter speeds.


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## Derrel

plainman007 said:


> Kmh > yes i definitely understand that my economy YN-460 IIs cannot be on par with a 580 EX II. But im sure 2 of the YNs paired next to each other should be able to match up from pure simple math. Unless the YNs are lesser than 50% the brightness of the Canons.
> 
> Also i have a related question. Once the trigger is on top of my camera i cant set the flash to IInd curtain sync is it ?



Uh, NO, two 460's paired up, even at full power, doesn't even equal ONE 580 EX-II...the Yongy GN KmH listed above is at ISO 200!!! Those are WEAK flashes. With them set to 1/4 power, they are gutless. You are not doing the so-called "simple math" using the right formula...


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## Rephargotohp

Si9nce it doesn't sound like you have a ligght meter, why not do a simple test to see if you are actually getting all 4 to sync.
get a white peice of paper and place the lights say 3 feet away. 

Turn on one flash and get an exposure of Middle gray from the white paper, ( Histogram centered)  Now turn on the 2nd one, take a shot, 3rd Flash, Shot, 4th flash, shot. If you don't see the histogram move to the right. Then you have a problem with them firing in sync with the camera. 

If that is NOT your problem. Then you know they just have no power and they suck


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## 480sparky

Rephargotohp said:


> Si9nce it doesn't sound like you have a ligght meter, why not do a simple test to see if you are actually getting all 4 to sync.
> get a white peice of paper and place the lights say 3 feet away.
> 
> Turn on one flash and get an exposure of Middle gray from the white paper, ( Histogram centered)  Now turn on the 2nd one, take a shot, 3rd Flash, Shot, 4th flash, shot. If you don't see the histogram move to the right. Then you have a problem with them firing in sync with the camera.
> 
> If that is NOT your problem. Then you know they just have no power and they suck



Why not just shoot the four flashes?


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## plainman007

Yes shooting the flashes is a simpler solution and the day i got my triggers itself i took them outdoors, to check the wireless range, then stood up all my flashes in a row. Then i walked away 50 feet, 75 feet, 100 feet, all the while clicking away towards the flashes and checking the shot to see if they all triggered. They did. But as i got as far as 200 feet, occasionally (1 in 10 shots) one flash or so wouldnt fire. But im hardly going to need that distance.

Derrel > What is the right formula / math ? Ill try.


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## Rephargotohp

For two reason

1. To eliminate the possibility you were shooting at a shutter speed that may show Flashes firing, but not syncing. In my situation at 1/15th I saw two flash fires. So I mistakenly thought both were in sync. But at any higher shutter speed there was only one flash fire.

2. So he could see for himself the effect of adding more flashes, as the histogram moved you could estimate the gain.

That's all...do as you please.


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## 2WheelPhoto

Don't scimp on lighting and triggers =)


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## Buckster

Rephargotohp said:


> For two reason
> 
> 1. To eliminate the possibility you were shooting at a shutter speed that may show Flashes firing, but not syncing. In my situation at 1/15th I saw two flash fires. So I mistakenly thought both were in sync. But at any higher shutter speed there was only one flash fire.
> 
> 2. So he could see for himself the effect of adding more flashes, as the histogram moved you could estimate the gain.
> 
> That's all...do as you please.


All he has to do is shoot them at the shutter speed he's using to shoot the subject with, and he'll know in an instant.


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## plainman007

Yes as Buckster says, If i just shot all three flashes directly at 1/200th of a second. Which happens to be the highest sync speed possible and also will test the sync speed to the max speed limit. This will show if all flashes are firing. The histogram thing seems a little complicated and round about. But nevertheless it also may be a legitimate method though.


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## plainman007

480sparky said:


> Ten feet? That's a tall order even for high-$ OCFs.



I dont know if you are confusing 10 feet with 10 meters. But to say 10 feet is too large a distance for standard (or even high end) OCFs is just plain unbelievable and proved wrong.

I just went thru several flickr images from the strobist group. And several shots that are extremely well illuminated have been done with modest flashes, with around 5pm ambient light and with around 15 feet of distance between the subject and flash, that too with an octabox slapped on, and also added to this is the fact that the flash was fired at 1/4 power. So to say even high $ OCFs wouldnt work @ 10 feet distances is a bit rash.

Its like saying all flashes but the very best (in this case including the very best) were designed to be used right in the subjects face.


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## 480sparky

plainman007 said:


> 480sparky said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ten feet? That's a tall order even for high-$ OCFs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I dont know if you are confusing 10 feet with 10 meters. But to say 10 feet is too large a distance for standard (or even high end) OCFs is just plain unbelievable and proved wrong.
> 
> I just went thru several flickr images from the strobist group. And several shots that are extremely well illuminated have been done with modest flashes, with around 5pm ambient light and with around 15 feet of distance between the subject and flash, that too with an octabox slapped on, and also added to this is the fact that the flash was fired at 1/4 power. So to say even high $ OCFs wouldnt work @ 10 feet distances is a bit rash.
> 
> Its like saying all flashes but the very best (in this case including the very best) were designed to be used right in the subjects face.
Click to expand...


Well, obviously I don't know squat then, and you're the Supreme Stobist.  I'll shut up now.


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## plainman007

I never meant anything like that. Im the one who doesnt know too much about this. Thats why im asking. 

But that particular point seems to have slipped. Come on, even biggest experts make small mistakes at times, why cant this be taken like that.

Thats why i said maybe you assumed we were talking meters (because then my 10 meters would be too much distance away from the subject) those are small typography kind of errors that even experts can make.

But still id like you to tell me how every 4th or 5th shot on Flickr with modest flashes and mostly with YN-460 IIs are shot with 10-20 feet OCF to subject distance. And the subjects are far from underexposed.

This is just a healthy debate (not an arguement) and id appreciate if you'd just treat it that way. Nothing personal please. And dont run your mouth off with dramatics like im a "supreme strobist etc". I only said that particular point on OCF distance was maybe wrong. And your trying to take it out on me for that ?


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## Mach0

KEH camera has some vivitar 285hv's...Although they are bulky, they offer a lot of power. I'm sure they have much more than the yn465. I dont recall the GN right now but I have them. In excellent condition from KEH, you can get one for under $70 shipped. More bang for your buck.


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## Dao

plainman007 said:


> Oh ok. I was suspecting that. But the canon top of the line 580 ex is rated at GN 58 and this one is GN 53. Lets say its a low brightness etc. Still wont 2 (double the output) at least match up to one 580 ex ? But i was using 4 of these that too.



GN is kind of tricky sometimes.  You need to make sure all other criteria are the same when you compare.

i.e.  ISO, meter or feet, flash head focal length setting.

The GN53 on YN460 is based on - at 35mm focal length, ISO 200 in meters (copied from Yongnuo site)

While most of the GN number are based on ISO100 such as the 580exII GN58.  ISO100 with flash head at 105mm


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## unpopular

Why not just  use proper battery powered monolights and flashheads, rather than this idiotic "strobist" crap? It's the wrong tool for the job.


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## plainman007

DAO > Ill check the latest info on the YN's i got. I think they recently upped the specs a little (hopefully more than just on paper). This might at least help others make a better decision when buying new gear.

Unpopular > Battery powered monoblocks etc are too large for my kind of work. I mostly do run and gun situations. Will you believe it just setting up my cameras under a public bridge where everyone is allowed to walk etc triggers a defensive response from illiterates in camera laws. Just position these small flashes and try taking a picture and ull find some embicile (who isnt security or law enforcement or anything) trying to tell you that you shouldnt be taking pictures, OF A PUBLIC BRIDGE.

I had this situation last week, because i had my subject stand in front of a huge cement block, there were 100s of them lying by the pavement for an upcoming public bridge construction, in a public area, we were not even causing a blockade or anything because it was an open public field away from the road. We had a security nut-job telling us firmly we shouldnt be doing photography there since the blocks belong to his company. But they are all lying a public garden field and its a public bridge which means even the blocks are public property. I didnt trespass to take the pic. Yet he was kicked up (and was drunk too) and i asked him to buzz off in no kind words and he was trying to create a scene. . Was he thinking the concrete blocks will melt from my flashes popping off ? All this for my small little petty flashes. Imagine taking out a full lighting rig.

I think if a bulldozer is standing on a public road and its lonely and your not causing a problem/blockage then you have every right to stand in front of it and photograph it. If it was sensitive material then why would it be on the roads ? I think a lot of photogs face this problem at some point.

So at the moment i wouldnt want to opt for large lighting mainly due to portability. But maybe in the future, id love working with such powerful lighting but im at a handicap to store and cart them around. Also added to this is the fact that they are too expensive for a non-working professional. I would buy them in a jiffy if i had a revenue recovery model. But buying 8 flashes with 2 camera bodies etc when theres zero financial return isnt viable for me.

Regards


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## o hey tyler

unpopular said:


> Why not just  use proper battery powered monolights and flashheads, rather than this idiotic "strobist" crap? It's the wrong tool for the job.



Obvious troll comment.


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## 480sparky

plainman007 said:


> ............Unpopular > Battery powered monoblocks etc are too large for my kind of work. I mostly do run and gun situations. Will you believe it just setting up my cameras under a public bridge where everyone is allowed to walk etc triggers a defensive response from illiterates in camera laws. Just position these small flashes and try taking a picture and ull find some embicile (who isnt security or law enforcement or anything) trying to tell you that you shouldnt be taking pictures, OF A PUBLIC BRIDGE.............



So you cripple yourself simply out of fear of some stranger sheer ignorance?  Wow.... the terrorists HAVE won!


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## plainman007

Yes the terrorists and their ignorance has won. I fear them. Now im starting to fear you too.:lmao:


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## unpopular

o hey tyler said:


> unpopular said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why not just  use proper battery powered monolights and flashheads, rather than this idiotic "strobist" crap? It's the wrong tool for the job.
> 
> 
> 
> Obvious troll comment.
Click to expand...

Perhaps I was trolling a wee little bit... But regardless, Speed lights have their purpose, this isn't it. Even in the video they had a elinchrom head behind a softbox, so clearly this video example has pretty limited value.

I suppose the added bulk is a disadvantage, but since when do we advocate the wrong way of doing things out of laziness?


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## Buckster

unpopular said:


> o hey tyler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> unpopular said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why not just  use proper battery powered monolights and flashheads, rather than this idiotic "strobist" crap? It's the wrong tool for the job.
> 
> 
> 
> Obvious troll comment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Perhaps I was trolling a wee little bit... But regardless, Speed lights have their purpose, this isn't it. Even in the video they had a elinchrom head behind a softbox, so clearly this video example has pretty limited value.
> 
> I suppose the added bulk is a disadvantage, but since when do we advocate the wrong way of doing things out of laziness?
Click to expand...

"Wrong" is subjective.  What's "wrong" for one photographer is "just right" for another.


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## plainman007

I totally agree with Buckster. There is no wrong. Photography is an art. Speedlights are a very workable tool. And there are guys that create killer stuff with them. Not me ofcourse im still learning to use them well. And like Buckster says they are sometimes ideal and with no second choice for photogs like me. So its the right choice for MY situation.


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## unpopular

Hammer a nail with a screwdriver then.


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## 2WheelPhoto

OP FYI only, this light weighs about as much as about 4-5 speedlights, is portable and easy enough to tote around, and does a wonderful job for me getting 500-800 clicks in the field on a small battery. On ebay this light can be had on the VERY cheap =)







The lithium battery I use is so small I can't even use it as a sandbag although it adds 3 pounds anyway.


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## Buckster

unpopular said:


> Hammer a nail with a screwdriver then.


It would be great if you'd stop trolling.

Your opinion that McNally, Black, Hobby and other successful professional photographers who usually prefer and use speedlights are "wrong" or that they're morons who are effectively hammering a nail with a screwdriver, means about as much as the kid working the fries at Burger King saying that the head chef at the 5 star restaurant on the other side of town is wrong for using the tools he prefers in his craft.

Get over yourself.


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## plainman007

Unpopular > How about using a stone....cheaper than a screwdriver !
And suits me just fine.
Where do you guys come from seriously. :x


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## Buckster

plainman007 said:


> Where do all you guys come from seriously.


I'm from Michigan.


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## CCericola

These are what I am looking to get in the near future. The thing is so many speed lights or even regular studio strobes egt so damn top heavy. I want the weight in the battery more than the actual lamp head.

Elinchrom Ranger Quadra Head A To Go Set EL 10293.1 B&H Photo

The vagabond mini is great but the older one was big and heavy and countered the weight of my Photogenic monolights. 

By the time I bought a bunch of 580's I could buy one Elinchrome and get 400watts right off the bat.


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## Buckster

CCericola said:


> These are what I am looking to get in the near future. The thing is so many speed lights or even regular studio strobes egt so damn top heavy. I want the weight in the battery more than the actual lamp head.
> 
> Elinchrom Ranger Quadra Head A To Go Set EL 10293.1 B&H Photo
> 
> The vagabond mini is great but the older one was big and heavy and countered the weight of my Photogenic monolights.
> 
> By the time I bought a bunch of 580's I could buy one Elinchrome and get 400watts right off the bat.


That's true, and it may be the perfect choice for you and the kind of shooting you do.

On the other hand, for that price, I might prefer to get 9 Yongnuo EX565 speedlights, which provides a LOT of ways to use them in up to 9 different locations on a shoot for some really creative results.  Environmental portraits utilize this method a lot, lighting not just the subject and bouncing off a couple of reflectors to get fill and hair lights, as is necessary with a single light setup, but also creatively lighting key elements of the subject's surroundings in very specialized ways, which is entirely possible if you have a lot of individual lights to work with.  McNally's books are filled with this stuff.

And on the occasion where I need one powerful light instead, they can be combined on a light tree to achieve that.  That's the verstility factor: With 9 individual lights, I can have either a single powerful light source or many variable lights used in an infinite number of ways to light an entire scene using various power levels, grids, snoots, gels, flags, diffusers and all the rest.

Top heavy or not, for the same price, I would choose the verstility of the 9 lights over the limitations of a single light source, but that's just me.  Sand bags are cheap, and DIY sandbags are cheaper still.

Again, for you, one light may be the perfect solution, and it's not for me to say it isn't.  I think it's up to each photographer to use what they think works best for their needs, stating again that none of it is "wrong".  It is instead, simply a preference.  Each has its pros and its cons.


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## plainman007

Hi Buckster, i was refering to unpopular. And his unpopular comments. LoL


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## plainman007

Yes, thats also exactly why i prefered going the multiple flash route. I was planning to get about 8 of these (have 4 now). Mainly for the directions/angles/gelled look achievable. Try recreating that look with monoblocks etc and it soon becomes huge in size and on your wallet.


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## unpopular

Buckster said:


> Your opinion that McNally, Black, Hobby and other successful professional photographers who usually prefer and use speedlights are "wrong"



Professional herp derp. I don't care about what some professional is doing or how well it works out for them. If you haven't noticed, I don't fall for that pro-idolization. Speedlights are simply not designed for this. Yeah. You can use them, but it's going to be inefficient, limited in flexibility and more costly in the long run.

And for what it's worth, they're not 'wrong' but rather they are using the wrong tools.

(BTW - in that video, behind the soft box is an elinchrom)


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## unpopular

plainman007 said:


> Yes, thats also exactly why i prefered going the multiple flash route. I was planning to get about 8 of these (have 4 now). Mainly for the directions/angles/gelled look achievable. Try recreating that look with monoblocks etc and it soon becomes huge in size and on your wallet.



Being that the Flashpoints/Mettle cost about the same as the Yongnuos, I don't really see what the deal is. I think in reality the best option is to use both speedlights and use monos as the main lights.

In any case, I'd start with monos and add accents where you need them.


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## o hey tyler

unpopular said:


> Buckster said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your opinion that McNally, Black, Hobby and other successful professional photographers who usually prefer and use speedlights are "wrong"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Professional herp derp. I don't care about what some professional is doing or how well it works out for them. If you haven't noticed, I don't fall for that pro-idolization. Speedlights are simply not designed for this. Yeah. You can use them, but it's going to be inefficient, limited in flexibility and more costly in the long run.
> 
> And for what it's worth, they're not 'wrong' but rather they are using the wrong tools.
> 
> (BTW - in that video, behind the soft box is an elinchrom)
Click to expand...


How are speedlights the wrong tool for shooting in the desert? They're capable of HSS/Auto FP sync, which studio flashes are not capable of (unless you want to spend a LOT of money). They're lighter, easier to move, and don't require an external power source or battery pack. 

Personally, I can't get on board with your reasoning. How much shooting have you done with off camera speedlights?


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## unpopular

Well. Very little. I'm not going to lie.

However, still, that video is misleading. They have a few speedlights but clearly there is a mono behind a softbox as well. Instead of bringing out a bunch of speedlights, why not just use another mono?

HSS OTOH is a valid point, and would decrease the need for higher power when shooting in ambient light.

...

OK. Crap. Yeah. I'm wrong.


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## o hey tyler

unpopular said:


> Well. Very little. I'm not going to lie.
> 
> However, still, that video is misleading. They have a few speedlights but clearly there is a mono behind a softbox as well. Instead of bringing out a bunch of speedlights, why not just use another mono?
> 
> HSS OTOH is a valid point, and would decrease the need for higher power.
> 
> ...
> 
> OK. Crap. Yeah. I'm wrong.



Well, thank you for being honest... I myself have done some shooting with speedlights outdoors with HSS, and they are quite useful. Especially if you want to use a wide aperture but still have fill light in direct sun. More versatile than a monolight with a battery pack IMO. 

I'm not quite sure what they were using the Elinchrom for... and I haven't watched the whole video. Was there a studio flash behind it? Or did the retrofit the softbox to work with a speedlight?


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## unpopular

I'd have to look (can't right now) but I am pretty sure there was a mono behind it?

----

ETA: Yeah, there is. Looks like an elinchrom head.


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## plainman007

I still wouldnt accept that speedlights might be the wrong tool. They are perfect due to their size and weight. Also i carry nearly 40-50 nimh batteries with me. I took these on a mountain trek recently and did some strobist shots up there at 18,000 ft. I could never have pulled that off with other lighting options / monos.


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## jedirunner

Buckster said:


>



That's impressive -- both in his set-up, and in figuring it all out, what he wanted, and what it could do for him.

Kevin


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