# What has happened to Canon?



## Jad (Oct 16, 2013)

I have been a Canon user since 1970 starting with the F1. I currently am using the 5D11 and have been waiting for several years for them to come out with a big mega pixel camera. Nikon has the D800 which has been on the market for over two years. I would have thought Canon would have brought out a camera to match them in price and mega pixel. Sony just introduced a full sensor mirror less big mega pixel camera that will take Canon lenses. I am starting to think that my next new camera may be a Sony if Canon doesn't get it's act together. What are your thoughts about Canons delay on new models?


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## kathyt (Oct 16, 2013)

What is it that you are looking for in a camera? What is the need/use for a million mega pixels? Canon 5D Mark III?


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## Juga (Oct 16, 2013)

I haven't read anything about the Sony accepting Canon EF mount lenses. Do you have a source? And as Kathy said...why the need for so many MP? 

With that being said I rather enjoy all 20.2 MP of my 6D and find that it is more than enough.


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## tecboy (Oct 16, 2013)

70D has some breakthroughs like dual pixal CMOS AF and STM lens.


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## Light Guru (Oct 16, 2013)

Jad said:


> What are your thoughts about Canons delay on new models?



I hate to break it to you but Cannon releases new models all the time.  Just because those models don't fit what you want does not mean there is a delay. 



Jad said:


> I have been a Canon user since 1970 starting with the F1. I currently am using the 5D11 and have been waiting for several years for them to come out with a big mega pixel camera. Nikon has the D800 which has been on the market for over two years. I would have thought Canon would have brought out a camera to match them in price and mega pixel. Sony just introduced a full sensor mirror less big mega pixel camera that will take Canon lenses. I am starting to think that my next new camera may be a Sony if Canon doesn't get it's act together. What are your thoughts about Canons delay on new models?



According to your post you are using a 5D11 that's at least 8 generations newer that the currently available 5d3 so I don't know that your complaining about. 

Cameras are just a tool nothing more. If your tool is not getting the job done the get a different tool, why should you care who makes it or how long you have been using one brand vs another. It's just a tool. 

If you really just want lots of megapixels then why a you shooting digital anyway. A good scan from a large format film negative will give you more megapixels then any digital camera you available today.


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## tecboy (Oct 16, 2013)

No need to bash the OP.  36mp will slow down my computer and eats up rams and hard drive spaces.  You may have tough times editing Photoshop or Lightroom unless you have extremely powerful computer like Digital Storm.


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## Light Guru (Oct 16, 2013)

tecboy said:


> 36mp will slow down my computer and eat up rams and hard drive spaces.  You may have tough times editing Photoshop or Lightroom unless you have extremely powerful computer like Digital Storm.



Any computer made in the last several years can handle a 36mp image easily and hard drives are cheep.  Photoshop on any machine Lin the last several years can easily handle files much beefier then a 36mp image.


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## dxqcanada (Oct 16, 2013)

Juga said:


> I haven't read anything about the Sony accepting Canon EF mount lenses. Do you have a source?



I think the OP is referring to the new Sony A7(r) http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/a7-and-a7r-specs/ + adapter ... like the Metabones Sony NEX System adapters.


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## Juga (Oct 16, 2013)

dxqcanada said:


> Juga said:
> 
> 
> > I haven't read anything about the Sony accepting Canon EF mount lenses. Do you have a source?
> ...



An extra $400 bones on top of the body + any lenses...no thanks.


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## pgriz (Oct 16, 2013)

I think the megapickle train left the station a long time ago.  The current express is "low noise at high iso".


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## tecboy (Oct 16, 2013)

Pentax has 40mp.  PENTAX - 645D Black


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## bratkinson (Oct 17, 2013)

tecboy said:


> No need to bash the OP. 36mp will slow down my computer and eats up rams and hard drive spaces. You may have tough times editing Photoshop or Lightroom unless you have extremely powerful computer like Digital Storm.



As others have said and I will repeat...the capabilities of the 5D3 far exceed my expectations. One does not need a zillion megapixels to get great shots! I moved to the 5D3 for it's absolutely 'dead on' AF capabilities and high ISO performance. The near silent shutter mode and jump in megapixels were 'freebies' in my book. So what would you do with, say, 43mp? While 'ever upwards' megapixels was a great marketing ploy and IQ improvement for the past 20 years or so, to my way of thinking, 22 or so megapixels is more than sufficient for high quality photographs. If you really want mural size prints, move to medium format, although the 5D3 would likely be sufficient. 

Perhaps the biggest 'surprise' I got when I moved from a Canon 60D to a 5D3 was the GIANT file sizes that gets produced in RAW + JPG formats. I was fortunate that I had recently upgraded from a 3.2 ghz single processor computer to a 4.8 ghz quad processor with an SSD drive, or the post processing time would be measured in 10s of minutes per picture, just to bring it up in Lightroom! In my estimation, the 5D3 is perhaps the best camera out there, or in the future, as well!

And, like you, I go 'way back' with Canon myself. I started with the AE-1 when first announced, but it was defective and the store offered full trade in on its predecessor, the EF. I bought 2.


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## o hey tyler (Oct 17, 2013)

tecboy said:


> Pentax has 40mp.  PENTAX - 645D Black



That's a medium format camera. It has a larger sensor than the cameras in question. PhaseOne has a 200mp digital back or something like that as well but that's not what's being discussed.


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## Dao (Oct 17, 2013)

dxqcanada said:


> Juga said:
> 
> 
> > I haven't read anything about the Sony accepting Canon EF mount lenses. Do you have a source?
> ...



Do you know if the adapter allow the communication between the Canon lens and the Sony body?


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## Jad (Oct 17, 2013)

I still believe that Canon has fallen asleep with making improvements to their digital still cameras. They have made great improvements with the video end of the market but have offered little improvements with new sensor technology. I realize it is not just the MP count that improves the overall image. I didn't see a big advantage to sell my 5D11 and upgrade to the 5D111 when it came out. I was really expecting something more for a $1,000 upgrade cost over the 5D11. Everyone uses their cameras differently so there are many opinions what equipment is best.


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## Jad (Oct 17, 2013)

Light Guru said:


> Jad said:
> 
> 
> > What are your thoughts about Canons delay on new models?
> ...



"Cameras are nothing but a tool nothing more" That is an old and worn out phrase, that really doesn't apply to the computer/digital world we live in. How many computer/software/camera upgrades have you done in the past ten years? When I worked with film I used the same camera and lenses for forty years. I bought the best I could afford and had never a need to upgrade them. The one thing that did get upgraded and improved on a regular basis was the film, chemicals, and the print papers. Now we are working without film and we rely more on equipment upgrades, cameras, printers, and computers, ect. to get improved quality to our images, not the simple materials upgrades of the past. It just a tool alright, but one that gets outdated quickly.


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## tecboy (Oct 17, 2013)

I have two computers with i7 core processors inside.  These work very well with a single 20mp image at a time in Photoshop.  I'm an artist.  I do a lot of heavy editing and working with multiple tiff images at a same time in one machine.  It can adds up to a gig of file size plus I use it for animation.  It bogs the system down.  Unless, I get a workstation with multiple processors, 128 gig of rams, and top of the line graphic card.  I have bough a 2TB of hard drive like everyone keeps saying it is cheap.  However, I don't want to spend money for another hard drive with 4TB.

My 70D is not even near the full frame, mirrorless full frame, or medium format sensor.  It has some impressive features like live viewing.  I use it a lot in the crowded people that I have to raise my camera up high just to shoot pictures.  It has incredible AF feature even it only has 19 AF points.  It is so much easy to use unlike other highend dslr with 50 to 60 AF points.  Canon may not have higher resolution sensor, but it has other features that is better qualilty.


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## pgriz (Oct 17, 2013)

Why outdated?  If the digital tool does the job for you in the way you want it done, then what does an upgrade get you?  If, on the other hand, the existing tool is holding you back in some way, then an upgrade does make sense as long as it remedies the deficiency you were experiencing before.  For instance, my current camera has so-so autofocus and low-light performance.  However, for the type of pictures I usually take, those are not serious issues, and I cannot justify dropping major dollars to fix a problem that for the most part I don't have.  If I changed my pictorial interests and started something that needed that kind of performance, then that would be a different scenario.

I'm pretty confident that the product managers at Canon, Nikon, etc. have pretty clear ideas of the profile of the customers they are targeting each type of product at.  If I or you don't happen to fall into one of those profiles, we may consider ourselves underserved, but for most companies, it does not make sense to pursue each and every potential customer.  Of course, if the company does not pay attention to the evolution of its customer base, it risks becoming irrelevant, uncompetitive, and will fail.  Trying to defend yesterday's cash cow is a quick way to oblivion, as Kodak, Polaroid, and others have found.  But I am not convinced that Canon or Nikon are in immediate danger of following them.  

There has been another thread about the potential disappearance of the DSLR, but that discussion seems to have been rather inconclusive.  In the computer arena, there's the trend that the number of PC's is dropping, with users going to tablets, smart phones and similar devices for entertainment and information sharing.  Businesses, on the other hand, continue to need data processing tools, databases, spreadsheets, word processors, and the like which the PC's host reasonably well.  Microsoft has tried to move the business computing market in the direction of the handheld devices with Windows 8, and has been met with a resounding chorus of boos from the business crowd. Essentially, users do NOT need continuous upgrades, unless the upgrades give new functionality that is important to the business.  And so it is with the camera technology - if you have tools that give you what you want, upgrading may not be needed.

Having looked at your blog, I can see that you have a well-developed vision and a skill-set to match.  You may be pushing the boundaries much more that I need to, and in your situation, it may make sense to look for those upgrades.  But if you are able to achieve what you want with your current gear, are your images going to be that much better if you upgrade?  I'm not sure.


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## play18now (Oct 17, 2013)

I too find I'm more interested in "low noise at high iso" than MP size.  But people have different needs for their cameras.  I never blow anything up past 8"x12" so I don't have a need for more that my 13 mp.  Maybe the OP does have a need for that, which is a perfectly valid reason to want a high-mp camera.  Unfortunately the 5D3 isn't THAT old and is a fabulous camera, so I don't see a new FF on the near horizon any time soon


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## kathyt (Oct 17, 2013)

For what it's worth, I just had to go look at my Mark III's manual to see how many MP's it truly is, because honestly that was not a factor in my purchase at all. Top two factors....focus and ISO.


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## Jad (Oct 17, 2013)

play18now said:


> I too find I'm more interested in "low noise at high iso" than MP size.  But people have different needs for their cameras.  I never blow anything up past 8"x12" so I don't have a need for more that my 13 mp.  Maybe the OP does have a need for that, which is a perfectly valid reason to want a high-mp camera.  Unfortunately the 5D3 isn't THAT old and is a fabulous camera, so I don't see a new FF on the near horizon any time soon




I probably started off my post in the wrong direction by mentioning high pixel count. New sensor technology is probably more important than the increased pixel count, but I would prefer both when I choose to upgrade my Canon 5D11.


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## kathyt (Oct 17, 2013)

Jad said:


> play18now said:
> 
> 
> > I too find I'm more interested in "low noise at high iso" than MP size.  But people have different needs for their cameras.  I never blow anything up past 8"x12" so I don't have a need for more that my 13 mp.  Maybe the OP does have a need for that, which is a perfectly valid reason to want a high-mp camera.  Unfortunately the 5D3 isn't THAT old and is a fabulous camera, so I don't see a new FF on the near horizon any time soon
> ...


You do have some nice work on your blog OP, but I am curious what would you do with more megapixels? More than 23 perhaps?


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## Juga (Oct 17, 2013)

Jad said:


> play18now said:
> 
> 
> > I too find I'm more interested in "low noise at high iso" than MP size.  But people have different needs for their cameras.  I never blow anything up past 8"x12" so I don't have a need for more that my 13 mp.  Maybe the OP does have a need for that, which is a perfectly valid reason to want a high-mp camera.  Unfortunately the 5D3 isn't THAT old and is a fabulous camera, so I don't see a new FF on the near horizon any time soon
> ...



Many may not agree with this but I find that for technology in general you have to wait at least two generations/models for a significant difference. Take the iPhone for example does the 'in between' model phone. IE iPhone 4 then 4S with significant difference going to the iPhone 5 now they have the 5S/5C which isn't a huge differences. I would look for the next 5D model to have the significant upgrades you desire...just speculation but there is how I personal follow technology.


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## Steve5D (Oct 17, 2013)

Jad said:


> I have been a Canon user since 1970 starting with the F1. I currently am using the 5D11 and have been waiting for several years for them to come out with a big mega pixel camera. Nikon has the D800 which has been on the market for over two years. I would have thought Canon would have brought out a camera to match them in price and mega pixel. Sony just introduced a full sensor mirror less big mega pixel camera that will take Canon lenses. I am starting to think that my next new camera may be a Sony if Canon doesn't get it's act together. What are your thoughts about Canons delay on new models?



As others have said, Canon releases new gear regularly.

If they were to introduce a 35MP body tomorrow, would you buy it?


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## Steve5D (Oct 17, 2013)

Jad said:


> "Cameras are nothing but a tool nothing more" That is an old and worn out phrase, that really doesn't apply to the computer/digital world we live in.



It absolutely _does _apply. 

I shoot with a 5d and a 40D. The 5D came out in 2005, and the 40D came out in 2007. Both provide the results I need and want from them.


If you can't get image you want with a 5D MKII, might I suggest you take up knitting.



> How many computer/software/camera upgrades have you done in the past ten years?



Computerwise, just one, because my old laptop died on me. Software? I use Elements 10, which I upgraded from Elements 9, so there's another upgrade. Camerawise, I've gone from a Rebel to a 20D to a 40D (which I'm still using), and then I added the full frame to the mix. So, a couple upgrades there.

Looks like five upgrades in all...



> When I worked with film I used the same camera and lenses for forty years.* I bought the best I could afford and had never a need to upgrade them*.



You've just answered your own question or, perhaps, have just brought up an important one.

Why do you _need _a large MP sensor?



> It just a tool alright, but one that gets outdated quickly.



"Outdated". Man, talk about old, worn out, tired phrases.

My 40D does everything it was designed to do. My 5D does everything it was designed to do. Neither one is suddenly producing inferior images. The images were great five years ago, and they're great now. 

You seem to be unhappy with the 5D MKII. If I might ask, why did you buy it? Were the specifications not available to you? Or (and this is probably far more accurate) is the camera still producing the same high quality images it did when you first bought it?

I drive a 14 year old truck. I live in a house that was built 25 years ago. How is it that I've survived for so long with such "outdated" things? Somehow, the roof on the 25 year old house keeps the rain off my head as well as the roof on a house built yesterday. The truck still runs as it did when I bought it, and it still gets me where I need to go in comfort.

Maybe what you need to start out with is a definition of "outdated". Just because something is old doesn't mean it's outdated. It's outdated when it won't do what you need it to do...


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## imagemaker46 (Oct 17, 2013)

The 5D mklll is light years ahead of the mkll when it comes to iso capabilities and well pretty much everything else.  MP has little to do with the end result of the image.  I shot with 1D's for years and the images are still great(4.3mp) they didn't change because the technology got better.  People seem to believe that more is always better, at some point it means very little to the average camera user.  High end fashion and portrait sure use 35-40mp cameras.  I doubt the average person really cares.  The camera geeks love to chatter about the technical side they read about.


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## Steve5D (Oct 17, 2013)

imagemaker46 said:


> The camera geeks love to chatter about the technical side they read about.



That's the long and short of it, yeah...


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## grafxman (Oct 17, 2013)

Apparently a few folks either didn't read my post of 18 Sept or else they forgot about it. Other things are a little more important than size alone to some people.

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/canon/339853-pretty-stunning.html

Canon's Ridiculously Sensitive CMOS Sensor | Videomaker.com


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## bentcountershaft (Oct 17, 2013)

grafxman said:


> Apparently a few folks either didn't read my post of 18 Sept or else they forgot about it. Other things are a little more important than size alone to some people.
> 
> http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/canon/339853-pretty-stunning.html
> 
> Canon's Ridiculously Sensitive CMOS Sensor | Videomaker.com



You didn't say there was going to be quiz later.


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## grafxman (Oct 17, 2013)

bentcountershaft said:


> grafxman said:
> 
> 
> > Apparently a few folks either didn't read my post of 18 Sept or else they forgot about it. Other things are a little more important than size alone to some people.
> ...



You should have asked!


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## Jad (Oct 17, 2013)

kathythorson said:


> Jad said:
> 
> 
> > play18now said:
> ...



I like to make large prints with my landscapes. A larger pixel count and a improved sensor would benefit my style of photography. Thanks for you kind words about my work.


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## Jad (Oct 17, 2013)

Steve5D said:


> Jad said:
> 
> 
> > "Cameras are nothing but a tool nothing more" That is an old and worn out phrase, that really doesn't apply to the computer/digital world we live in.
> ...


Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I used a Linhof for nearly forty years and I bought it used. It worked perfectly when I sold it. What I could count on over the years was improvements with the film and print papers to better the quality of my images. Now we are caught in a technology trap where everything gets outdated just after you buy it. How much old software, computers, monitors, printers do you have sitting around? Plenty I bet. I bought the 5D11 because it was my first digital camera. It is a great camera but it will be outdated with superior technology. I will always keep it because unlike my Linhof it will have little or no value if I were to sell it. I actually sold the Linhof for more than I paid for it many years before.


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## Bulb (Oct 17, 2013)

Jad said:


> Yeah, yeah, yeah.
> I used a Linhof for nearly forty years and I bought it used. It worked perfectly when I sold it. What I could count on over the years was improvements with the film and print papers to better the quality of my images. Now we are caught in a technology trap where everything gets outdated just after you buy it. How much old software, computers, monitors, printers do you have sitting around? Plenty I bet. I bought the 5D11 because it was my first digital camera. It is a great camera but it will be outdated with superior technology. I will always keep it because unlike my Linhof it will have little or no value if I were to sell it. I actually sold the Linhof for more than I paid for it many years before.



By that same logic, cars are bad because they lose a large portion of their value the first time you drive it off the lot.

Unlike cars, though, cameras and lenses can easily and inexpensively be kept working for decades.

Being 'outdated' doesn't mean anything. It will not be any worse of a camera because a new model came out. It will still perform the same. It will take the same pictures. It will even look the same if you're careful not to chip the paint. You can blame companies for influencing you to upgrade. You can blame other people for pressuring you into buying the newest thing. In the end, though, only you can convince yourself that you really need the newest and the best.

When I bought my DSLR I knew fully well that it would be what I am going to be using for many years. For that reason, I picked the camera that caught my attention. One I could grow with and still be happy with years from now. When I see people using their 5D3 or D4, it doesn't affect me. I'm happy that they found a camera that they like.


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## tecboy (Oct 18, 2013)

Get 70D!  It is newer and updated model.  You won't regret this!


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## Steve5D (Oct 18, 2013)

Jad said:


> Yeah, yeah, yeah.
> 
> I used a Linhof for nearly forty years and I bought it used. It worked perfectly when I sold it. What I could count on over the years was improvements with the film and print papers to better the quality of my images. Now we are caught in a technology trap where everything gets outdated just after you buy it. How much old software, computers, monitors, printers do you have sitting around? Plenty I bet. I bought the 5D11 because it was my first digital camera. It is a great camera but it will be outdated with superior technology. I will always keep it because unlike my Linhof it will have little or no value if I were to sell it. I actually sold the Linhof for more than I paid for it many years before.



I shot Plus-X and Tri-X for years. What "improvements" were made to those films?

Your idea that "Now we are caught in a "technology trap"..." is inaccurate. I'm certainly not. I don't have the scores of old monitors, software and printers you expect me to have. If you're worried about something being "outdated" as soon as you buy it, why would you bother purchasing a large MP camera from Canon? If it's going to be outdated as spoon as you buy it, what's the point?

You say you like to make "large prints". How big are we talking about? I've had a photo of mine printed out to 4'x4', and it looked pretty damn good for something that came out of my old 20D. I can only imagine how good it would've looked had it been taken with my 5D. 

How much bigger do you need to get, and how is the 5D MKII unable to handle that?


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## Steve5D (Oct 18, 2013)

Jad said:


> Thanks for you kind words about my work.



I just took a look.

Damn.

You're quite good...


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## grafxman (Oct 18, 2013)

Steve5D said:


> Jad said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for you kind words about my work.
> ...



Concur 100%!


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## Jad (Oct 18, 2013)

Steve5D said:


> Jad said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for you kind words about my work.
> ...



Thanks for the comment on my work. I am very happy with the 5D11. The only real improvement I would like to see in the future is to the sensor ( digital noise/grain). It is like the film in the camera. I used Tri-x for years and then Kodak came out with Tmax 100. It just about eliminated all grain in the film and was a big improvement. It also can in film packs so I no longer needed to load and carry heavy film holders. I guess my point is with a film camera I didn't need to upgrade the equipment to better the picture quality because the upgrades came with the film and paper. Today the upgrades come built in the camera. I will never part with the 5D but at some point I would like a backup body to have with me, and it may be a few years before I do that.


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## Dao (Oct 18, 2013)

Jad, I just want to say that .....


"I like your work too"


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## imagemaker46 (Oct 18, 2013)

You have some very nice images, the skill is definitely there. Honestly and this isn't a knock against you, but personally I don't believe that you will ever be really happy shooting with digital.  You have been creating beautiful images on film, and can't get the same feel with digital.  I had been shooting film from 1969-2001, when I switched to digital I thought it was amazing, and it did  bring me back into the spirit of wanting to work again, I came close to quitting(several times) I have gone from 3 1D bodies to a 5D mklll and have to say the Mklll is beautiful, but then I have also produced beautiful images with my happy snap T2i, using good glass though.

In the past 3 years OI have been scanning all my old pro football negs and really like how most of them look, the grain is bad on some, and amazing on others, but they still have a different feel than digital.  If people have never shot film they may not understand the difference, but there is one.  

Try renting a 5D mklll and see what you think, you may find the camera you are missing.


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## Jad (Oct 18, 2013)

imagemaker46 said:


> You have some very nice images, the skill is definitely there. Honestly and this isn't a knock against you, but personally I don't believe that you will ever be really happy shooting with digital.  You have been creating beautiful images on film, and can't get the same feel with digital.  I had been shooting film from 1969-2001, when I switched to digital I thought it was amazing, and it did  bring me back into the spirit of wanting to work again, I came close to quitting(several times) I have gone from 3 1D bodies to a 5D mklll and have to say the Mklll is beautiful, but then I have also produced beautiful images with my happy snap T2i, using good glass though.
> 
> In the past 3 years OI have been scanning all my old pro football negs and really like how most of them look, the grain is bad on some, and amazing on others, but they still have a different feel than digital.  If people have never shot film they may not understand the difference, but there is one.
> 
> Try renting a 5D mklll and see what you think, you may find the camera you are missing.



I think you are correct in saying I probably won't be as happy with my results with digital. The silver print glows when compared to a inkjet print, at least for me. Digital is fascinating with respects to how simply I can do things in PS that took me hours if not days to do in the darkroom. My hope is the technology will progress and improvements will come. It was sad when film went in a decline because it was just reaching some of the best technology and products in its history. The advancements came because of the competition, and brought us some really nice films and papers to work with. Sadly there is little left on the market today that can compare. I remember the day when I heard my first music cd and thought it sounded brassy when compared to the traditional vinyl records, and wonder if people would accept the new sound. The 5D111 is a nice camera but the 5D11 will do for now.


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