# Men beating on woman



## jcdeboever (Aug 11, 2017)

There has been a great deal of publicity evolving lately on woman beaten by prolific sports stars. I hate the thought of striking a woman. However, I am curious as to why it happens so frequently with men who are in the view at all times. 

I wonder...

Have men lost there place in society? Are we only good for romance?

Should we focus on romance because we are no longer valued as a viable contributer and protector?

If we are high income producers, are we a Target or a catch? 

Imo, in mass, us men have lost our function. Media produces our function. 

Is it bad for a man such as an example, Jona to take care of his kids, work, and live a prosperous life?  Why isn't Jona celebrated for his commitment to his family? 

Something is out of order in this world.


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## smoke665 (Aug 11, 2017)

I can tell you from personal experience that the domestic calls I ran as a Fire/1st responder, had no financial or "notoriety" boundaries. We might be in a low income residence one day or mini mansion the next. It may sound callous, but there wasn't any news value in the "poor folk" beating the crap out of each other, but the papers would be all over some well known family.

Domestic abuse has always been a more serious problem then most people realize.


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## Flash Harry (Aug 11, 2017)

Glad I don't do sport any more, I've also never beat the wife and we've been through the mill over the last 25 years, silver anniversary next month and she keeps mentioning it and what we'll be doing to celebrate it and I haven't got a clue so it looks like some domestic violence heading my way shortly, however I don't mind, its 22 years since she laid me out in the garden with a bricklayers spirit level, lol.


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## waday (Aug 11, 2017)

Males (especially white males) have lots of privilege in this world. Not sure what you're getting at here?


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## pixmedic (Aug 11, 2017)

My wife will draw blood sometimes...but only when I ask nicely.

Make it hurt so bad, 'cause it feels so good when you stop.

Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk


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## jcdeboever (Aug 11, 2017)

waday said:


> Males (especially white males) have lots of privilege in this world. Not sure what you're getting at here?


Lots of men beating up woman is in the news, all that I'm saying. It's disgusting, white, black, purple, or orange. I don't understand.


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## smoke665 (Aug 11, 2017)

waday said:


> Males (especially white males) have lots of privilege in this world. Not sure what you're getting at here?



Obviously you haven't been on the responding end of domestic calls or you'd know, race or sex isn't  necessarily a factor. Blacks, Hispanic, White, Native American,...... not a lot of difference in one or the other, especially when alcohol or drugs are involved. Same with male or female. Though black females seemed less likely to file charges than other races, resulting in  multiple calls to the same location.


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## terri (Aug 11, 2017)

I appreciate the intent towards a healthy discussion on a subject that, yes, crosses all societal boundaries.    

There are lots of ways this could go off the rails, however.   Please keep the discussion respectful.     Thanks!


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## smoke665 (Aug 11, 2017)

jcdeboever said:


> I don't understand.



As I said earlier, on most of the calls I responded to, drugs or alcohol was usually the catalyst. Not saying that made it ok, just the way it was. The calls that made me violently ill, and still haunt my dreams, were those involving children.  Like the non-responsive baby we couldn't revive, and found out later it's neck had been snapped by a father who had violently  shook the infant because he was crying, or any number of  children with cigarette burn marks on them, because they didn't act quick enough when told to do something. Our oldest son and his wife are fostering a precious 2 yr old girl, that was taken by the state, after the mother had punished her for not using the potty, by putting her in a bathtub and pouring boiling water on her, causing major 2nd degree burns on her back.  Lot of sicko people out there JC, unfortunately just doesn't always make it to the news.


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## waday (Aug 11, 2017)

jcdeboever said:


> waday said:
> 
> 
> > Males (especially white males) have lots of privilege in this world. Not sure what you're getting at here?
> ...



My response with respect to:



jcdeboever said:


> Is it bad for a man such as an example, Jona to take care of his kids, work, and live a prosperous life? Why isn't Jona celebrated for his commitment to his family?
> 
> Something is out of order in this world.


Out of order in this world? It's a male dominated world, unfortunately.

Generally, it only gets publicized when it's from a public figure.

And..


smoke665 said:


> Obviously you haven't...


Interesting that you seemed to focus on race in my statement, while that statement was geared solely towards men in our society.


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## smoke665 (Aug 11, 2017)

waday said:


> while that statement was geared solely towards men in our society.



If I misread your intent, then I apologize, though if that was your intent, then leaving off the _"Males (especially white males)" _ would have made much clearer, the direction you were going. As written it lead me to believe that you were saying "White males" have some sort of lock on abuse, when in reality abuse is not limited by race, ethnicity, religion, age or sex. Again from my experiences on domestic calls, men were more likely to be victims of gunshot or stabbing, women more bruises, broken bones, and abrasions, though I've bandaged a fair number of knife wounds on them as well. Domestic abuse of anyone is a sore point with me, primarily because of my experiences, and is a serious problem that doesn't get nearly the media attention it should. Unless it's a celebrity or other well known individual, it's a dirty little secret that no one wants to talk about.  I don't recall off hand the total percentage of our calls that are tagged domestic, but it's significant, and then we have those calls that they don't declare (fall, or accident but you know the truth).  It's a subject that needs serious open discussion about help and assistance for victims, and counseling/training for the perpetrator, without bringing  racism, sexism, or any other "ism" into the mix, to break the cycle, because it is unfortunately a problem that can perpetuate through the generations, where we see the abused becoming the abuser.


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## Gary A. (Aug 11, 2017)

All violence is bad.  Somehow violence based on hate seems worse than other forms of violence.  Violence against a person less your physical equal somehow seems worse.  I had a profession which I witnessed extreme violence nearly everyday.  Violence will change you. 

My parents and their generation have a much greater sense of propriety and treating others with respect than I.


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## limr (Aug 11, 2017)

The first law against domestic violence was passed in 1850. It wasn't until 1920 that the last state passed a law to make it illegal for a man to beat his wife. That was _less than 100 years ago.
_
Even after laws were passed, arrests were rarely made. It wasn't until the 1970s that people _finally_ stopped turning a blind eye. There were more laws starting in the 1990s that had more teeth and could actually protect women, not only because of consequences but because they were actually being enforced.

So just think - is there really more violence against women? Or is it just more visible now because a) it is FINALLY less acceptable, which in turn means there's more social stigma and more consequences, and so women feel safer to report the abuse, and b) there are more ways to capture photographic evidence of the abuse.

(And yet, just think of all the abuse that still does NOT get reported.)

This is not about men 'losing their place' - abuse is about insecurity, fear, and control. And quite frankly, I feel it is problem to imply that if we could all just appreciate what men do, then they won't beat us anymore. That's dancing dangerously close to the victim-blaming line.

Why can't a man be appreciated for being good to his family? Good question. Why can't a woman be appreciated for what she does for her family? Why can't men AND women both be appreciated for the good things they do even if they don't have families? These are also good questions. I just don't think they are the relevant questions to ask when the subject is domestic violence.


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## bribrius (Aug 11, 2017)

Some people just got it coming. Don't care what color or what gender. To think there is no person on this earth that deserves to have their azz kicked is utter nonsense. If you believe such a fairytale as no man or woman deserves to be hit i guess you haven't seen the screwed up things people do that i have.


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## bribrius (Aug 11, 2017)

jcdeboever said:


> There has been a great deal of publicity evolving lately on woman beaten by prolific sports stars. I hate the thought of striking a woman. However, I am curious as to why it happens so frequently with men who are in the view at all times.
> 
> I wonder...
> 
> ...


Dunno man. When i was young i was taught to never hit a woman. Well women have changed. Now i am raising boys. I am pro womens lib and pro equality. So i am teaching my boys to never hit a "lady". Basically, if some dumb chick hits one of them when they get older they have my total blessing to knock her the hell out. Equal rights...


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## bribrius (Aug 11, 2017)

Oh 


limr said:


> The first law against domestic violence was passed in 1850. It wasn't until 1920 that the last state passed a law to make it illegal for a man to beat his wife. That was _less than 100 years ago.
> _
> Even after laws were passed, arrests were rarely made. It wasn't until the 1970s that people _finally_ stopped turning a blind eye. There were more laws starting in the 1990s that had more teeth and could actually protect women, not only because of consequences but because they were actually being enforced.
> 
> ...


Oh there is more violence against women i think. But in 1940 there wasnt women that would cheat on you with your friends kick your dog take all your money and smash the windows out of your car.  And then expect to take no accountability for it.


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## limr (Aug 11, 2017)

How about not hitting _anybody_? "Equality" shouldn't mean MORE violence is acceptable.


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## jcdeboever (Aug 12, 2017)

There is so much hate, anger, envy, and violence everywhere. I am so tired of it. I see it in on the street, around the Globe, in our sports, in places of worship.


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## smoke665 (Aug 12, 2017)

limr said:


> And yet, just think of all the abuse that still does NOT get reported.)



Or as I said earlier the victim fails to follow through with charges, or lies about the cause of the injury. I'm not so sure that there's any more violence men or women as a "percentage" of the population then there was in 1940. I believe it's more "known about" now, thanks to response by LEO and Fire/1st responders. I also believe as I said earlier a case where grandpa/grandma was an abuser,  so Mom/Dad grew up to be an abuser and it's likely little Joey/Suzy will as well.



limr said:


> This is not about men 'losing their place' - abuse is about insecurity, fear, and control



We can finally agree on something. LOL At least partially. The majority of runs these factors came into play, but there were a few where for whatever reason, something just caused the person to snap. I remember a call where a woman had emptied two 9 shot clips at her husband because he made a  comment about the dinner she'd made. Fortunately despite the number of shots the man had only been grazed in a couple of places, because the woman claimed "he wouldn't stand still".


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## waday (Aug 12, 2017)

I was going to write a big response that tried to explain my intentions for posting, but I deleted it. There are just three things that I want to touch on briefly:


This thread has no focus. Is it on domestic violence against women, domestic violence against anyone, or about lamenting how society and men have changed over the years? While the title is about men abusing women and the first half of the OP discusses domestic violence, it ends with questions that seem to have nothing to do with domestic violence. This was pointed out by @limr. 


These threads are very bad, because with no focus, people say things that almost immediately cause animosity and hatred towards other members. Something that I think JC is tired of, but not mentioned in the OP. 

As an example, to quote @smoke665, "Obviously you haven't been on the responding end...". Funny, because you don't know anything about me or my past, what I have or have not experienced. This statement is unfair, because you make an ass out of me with your false assumptions just to further your point. Given my response, I hope you realize you're incorrect. I've already shared more than I care to publicly, and I do not care to share more.


Have a good discussion, and I hope it turns out to be a meaningful in the end. I no longer wish to be a part of this thread.


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## terri (Aug 12, 2017)

Agreed.   My first post was trying to say the same thing, but you've expanded on it in a far more eloquent way.   

I don't mind folks making comments, wanting to vent, or express their own experiences, but since the OP didn't really make an argument (to be defended, expanded on or agreed with), it is lacking a focal point around which to garner any meaningful discussion.    These are exactly the types of threads that can easily go off the rails.


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## limr (Aug 12, 2017)

smoke665 said:


> limr said:
> 
> 
> > And yet, just think of all the abuse that still does NOT get reported.)
> ...



I'm going to bet that we actually agree on other things as well: the cuteness of puppies, the joy of a really good pizza, the retina-searing shock of overcooked HDR...


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## Braineack (Aug 12, 2017)

jcdeboever said:


> There is so much hate, anger, envy, and violence everywhere. I am so tired of it. I see it in on the street, around the Globe, in our sports, in places of worship.



this is what happens when you pit classes/labels against each other.


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## limr (Aug 12, 2017)

Nope, we are not going there.


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## vintagesnaps (Aug 12, 2017)

Well, ya know, the people living their lives in a positive way aren't the ones going to be on the news except for some features of community events and what not. It's not going to make the news that you went to Little League then walked across the street to the creamy whippity dip and a good time was had by all - unless a local paper or TV station is doing a feature on it. I think there's just so much out there online, and all the clickbait sites embellish it, and it takes figuring out how to filter it. 

As far as the more serious turn of this thread, having worked with toddlers we try to teach them to touch nice, use their words (or 'give' them words/gestures), and direct them away from another child if they're hitting (as toddlers are often inclined to do when frustrated, etc.). But if adults think hitting or physical force is okay, how are the kids going to learn it's NOT okay? Because it isn't, nobody deserves it. Kids need guidance and appropriate discipline. What you show or teach kids is often likely to be what they'll be doing later in life. Although I've seen the cycle be broken, and had parents tell me they want to learn how to manage their kids' behavior than what was done back in the day when they were younger. But if people don't want to try to change or learn anything that can often be the challenge, to help break that cycle of violence or abusive behavior.


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## bribrius (Aug 13, 2017)

limr said:


> How about not hitting _anybody_? "Equality" shouldn't mean MORE violence is acceptable.


Sorry if i find some crack head or heroin head chick breaking into my car i'm going to friggn hit her. Years ago i wouldn't think of such a thing but things change. World changed.


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## vintagesnaps (Aug 13, 2017)

If some crack head is breaking into your car call the police. And that seems like an extreme example... I mean, there are circumstances where you may need to do what you need to do to defend yourself. But if in the process of trying to protect your car/your property then what if you hit someone (a woman who may be smaller than you) and cause serious injury? Then you could be held responsible for your action and it could just make a bad situation worse. And confronting someone on drugs doesn't always turn out well either because the person could be unaware of what they're even doing. 

Most of the time taking physical or aggressive action probably isn't the best first reaction; being calm can diffuse a situation.


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## rexbobcat (Aug 13, 2017)

I don't quite understand the main theme of this thread since the OP was somewhat meandering, but I will apply to one of the tangents.

I've never understood why my purpose should be defined by my gender. Why do I need a purpose _as a man? _If I stay home and take care of my kids, I don't need to be celebrated for my role within the family, because the only person whose opinion matters is my child's (and my partner's of course).

Waiting for society to dictate my value will only lead to discontentment and regret. Life's too short.


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## jcdeboever (Aug 13, 2017)

rexbobcat said:


> I don't quite understand the main theme of this thread since the OP was somewhat meandering, but I will apply to one of the tangents.
> 
> I've never understood why my purpose should be defined by my gender. Why do I need a purpose _as a man? _If I stay home and take care of my kids, I don't need to be celebrated for my role within the family, because the only person whose opinion matters is my child's (and my partner's of course).
> 
> Waiting for society to dictate my value will only lead to discontentment and regret. Life's too short.


I don't watch news but was sitting in living room and it was on. The station was going on and on about the numerous football players beating on woman. I just was disgusted really, and pondered what about all the good men out there? It got me thinking and reminded me of a paper I did in college on the demise of the "traditional nuclear family" (got 200 points). I basically compared the rolls of each family member and set out to prove a theory that the man had lost his place in the family unit, and children were not being nurtured by their mothers. It stirred great debate amongst the class. I was meandering, lol.


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## SquarePeg (Aug 13, 2017)

Oh people people!  I go on vacation for a week and come back to this can of worms?  Why in the world did I even click on this thread after reading the title?  

Are there really two sides to this discussion? It's not ok to hit anyone, ever, unless in self defense from a physical attack. Period.  If you disagree with this statement then consider yourself on my ignore list for good.


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## terri (Aug 13, 2017)

I think enough has been said, and I don't want the mods to have to continue watching this.

Closed.

For the record, something like this would be better posted in the Subscriber forum, and would also be left alone to implode under its own weight.


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