# I did the assignment anyway :)



## Elizabeth30 (Jan 17, 2012)

First off I'd like to apologize for my outburst earlier. I HATE drama, I think it's so stupid. I really really do want to learn. So I'm giving it another go because I do think there are some very talented people here that I could learn a lot from!! BUT if you're not interested in helping me learn something, just don't reply, it's honestly that simple!! I can take the critique and comments on what I'm doing wrong (I think I've already proven that) but I will not stick around for dramatic arguments about who has the biggest dick..... and I know it won't hurt anyone's feelings if I just never post again but I need to learn so here it goes again.......

Ok So I took a bottle of body spray outside and set it on a stool and took pics while stopping down my aperture. So I was 5ft from my object and I used a tripod. I had my camera set to AV mode with AF one shot, and yes I read the manual about choosing a single AF point first. The sky was very overcast though so I think this kind of put a damper on the project since the shutter wanted to go really slow but I didn't want to mess anything up so I didn't change any settings other than the aperture. The first photo at 1.8 was really OOF and didn't look good at all. The best one was at f/6.3 So that tells me that this small bottle didn't even have the best focus until f/6.3 so if I'm tring to focus a person (obviously much larger) then I'm really cheating myself out of a good photo by shooting wide open. 

That being said I'm going to half to redo the assignment due to the low lighting today. When my shutter is only going at 1/8 there is no way to really see if the OOF is due to aperture change or shutter speed. Cuz 1/8 is REALLY slow even with a tripod it's difficult to get a decent pic at that speed.


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## sm4him (Jan 17, 2012)

What was your ISO set on? You could probably have bumped it up, particularly just for the sake of the experiment, so that your shutter speed would still have been faster as you experimented with the aperture.


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## Elizabeth30 (Jan 17, 2012)

sm4him said:


> What was your ISO set on? You could probably have bumped it up, particularly just for the sake of the experiment, so that your shutter speed would still have been faster as you experimented with the aperture.



Oh gosh, see, I never even thought of that! YEAH I should have cause my ISO was at 100 the whole time! See I need to start thinking of these things while I'm shooting. It's like I learn all this stuff and step out my door with my camera and draw a blank! UHG!


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## Bossy (Jan 17, 2012)

Don't worry about focusing so much at this point and learn how to get a good exposure. See for yourself how moving one dial affects the image vs moving another one. Focusing comes after you learn how they relate. 1/8 on a tripod shouldn't be an issue, if you're having camera shake from pressing the button, try using a short timer.


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## MTVision (Jan 17, 2012)

Elizabeth30 said:
			
		

> Oh gosh, see, I never even thought of that! YEAH I should have cause my ISO was at 100 the whole time! See I need to start thinking of these things while I'm shooting. It's like I learn all this stuff and step out my door with my camera and draw a blank! UHG!



Even though the sharpest photo was at f/6.3 (can't remember the exact number) you can use other wider apertures at times. But while your learning - smaller apertures will definitely help you nail your focus.  Higher ISO's are your friend as well - raising it will help you get a higher shutter speed. But shutter speed doesn't really matter on a tripod like it does handheld. 

I'm sure you have a doll around the house - you should use that to practice on as well because it has 2 eyes (for focus).  I'm glad you did that test! It will really improve your photography.


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## MTVision (Jan 17, 2012)

Elizabeth30 said:
			
		

> First off I'd like to apologize for my outburst earlier. I HATE drama, I think it's so stupid. I really really do want to learn. So I'm giving it another go because I do think there are some very talented people here that I could learn a lot from!! BUT if you're not interested in helping me learn something, just don't reply, it's honestly that simple!! I can take the critique and comments on what I'm doing wrong (I think I've already proven that) but I will not stick around for dramatic arguments about who has the biggest dick..... and I know it won't hurt anyone's feelings if I just never post again but I need to learn so here it goes again.......
> 
> Ok So I took a bottle of body spray outside and set it on a stool and took pics while stopping down my aperture. So I was 5ft from my object and I used a tripod. I had my camera set to AV mode with AF one shot, and yes I read the manual about choosing a single AF point first. The sky was very overcast though so I think this kind of put a damper on the project since the shutter wanted to go really slow but I didn't want to mess anything up so I didn't change any settings other than the aperture. The first photo at 1.8 was really OOF and didn't look good at all. The best one was at f/6.3 So that tells me that this small bottle didn't even have the best focus until f/6.3 so if I'm tring to focus a person (obviously much larger) then I'm really cheating myself out of a good photo by shooting wide open.
> 
> That being said I'm going to half to redo the assignment due to the low lighting today. When my shutter is only going at 1/8 there is no way to really see if the OOF is due to aperture change or shutter speed. Cuz 1/8 is REALLY slow even with a tripod it's difficult to get a decent pic at that speed.



One other thing. Maybe next time when you do a test like this - vary your distance. You already know how aperture and depth of field affect the image at 5 feet away. Your depth of field will get larger the further away you are.


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## MTVision (Jan 17, 2012)

Bossy said:
			
		

> Don't worry about focusing so much at this point and learn how to get a good exposure. See for yourself how moving one dial affects the image vs moving another one. Focusing comes after you learn how they relate. 1/8 on a tripod shouldn't be an issue, if you're having camera shake from pressing the button, try using a short timer.



Don't tell her that. She is obviously trying to figure out depth of field and how using a large aperture causes focus issues and a soft image.


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## Bossy (Jan 17, 2012)

MTVision said:


> Bossy said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah but...ok.


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## sm4him (Jan 17, 2012)

Elizabeth30 said:


> sm4him said:
> 
> 
> > What was your ISO set on? You could probably have bumped it up, particularly just for the sake of the experiment, so that your shutter speed would still have been faster as you experimented with the aperture.
> ...



I know you're getting some harsh critics because you've "already been told" this stuff and you're "not listening." But fact is, it CAN be overwhelming, and you've been trying to take it all in and learn it too fast. You've been trying to just suck up all this advice and information and learn everything at once, and you can't. Just slow down and do like you did today...one thing, one assignment. And don't just do that for one day. Do it as much as you need to really GET it.

Listen to MTVision...she is patient, understanding and knowledgeable. You have talent, you just need to slow down and let yourself learn, one step at a time.

I think that "some" of the people who get so put off when noobs don't "listen" and have to be told the same thing multiple times have either forgotten how hard it was to take it all in at the beginning...or, for some of them, the technical stuff came easily. Some people pick right up on how all the technical stuff works together, but many really struggle with it. 

My sister, who is actually a far better photographer than I am, really stunk at all things math. She hates anything to do with numbers, and even after two years with her DSLR she is still struggling to *really* GET the technical stuff...she constantly forgets how aperture works (whether she needs a higher number or a lower one), how the exposure triangle all fits together, how she needs to adjust settings for a better DOF on a particular photo, etc. She was so glad when I finally got my dslr this year because she knows I'm more mathematical and pick up on the technical stuff a little better.

My point is just...keep with it. Don't try to learn it all at once, and don't let the cranks and curmudgeons get to you. I really believe you've got what it takes to get there, eventually!

But then, what do I know? It's not like *I'm* there!


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## GeorgieGirl (Jan 17, 2012)

Elizabeth30 said:


> First off I'd like to apologize for my outburst earlier. I HATE drama, I think it's so stupid. I really really do want to learn. So I'm giving it another go because I do think there are some very talented people here that I could learn a lot from!! BUT if you're not interested in helping me learn something, just don't reply, it's honestly that simple!! I can take the critique and comments on what I'm doing wrong (I think I've already proven that) but I will not stick around for dramatic arguments about who has the biggest dick..... and I know it won't hurt anyone's feelings if I just never post again but I need to learn so here it goes again.......
> 
> Ok So I took a bottle of body spray outside and set it on a stool and took pics while stopping down my aperture. So I was 5ft from my object and I used a tripod. I had my camera set to AV mode with AF one shot, and yes I read the manual about choosing a single AF point first. The sky was very overcast though so I think this kind of put a damper on the project since the shutter wanted to go really slow but I didn't want to mess anything up so I didn't change any settings other than the aperture. The first photo at 1.8 was really OOF and didn't look good at all. The best one was at f/6.3 So that tells me that this small bottle didn't even have the best focus until f/6.3 so if I'm tring to focus a person (obviously much larger) then I'm really cheating myself out of a good photo by shooting wide open.
> 
> That being said I'm going to half to redo the assignment due to the low lighting today. When my shutter is only going at 1/8 there is no way to really see if the OOF is due to aperture change or shutter speed. Cuz 1/8 is REALLY slow even with a tripod it's difficult to get a decent pic at that speed.



How 'bout you take about a week or two off of TPF and the babble and concentrate on shooting what you 'have learned'.


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## cgipson1 (Jan 17, 2012)

GeorgieGirl said:


> How 'bout you take about a week or two off of TPF and the babble and concentrate on shooting what you 'have learned'.



Where have I heard that before?  lol! bet'cha a fiver your advice is ignored? We on?


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## GeorgieGirl (Jan 17, 2012)




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## cgipson1 (Jan 17, 2012)

GeorgieGirl said:


>


:hug::


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## e.rose (Jan 17, 2012)

I'm laying on the couch feeling like I'm on my death bed right now, so maybe my brain just isn't processing things correctly right now, but I think everyone would agree when I say.... if you posted example images (which I'm assuming you have since you said you did an experiment today), it would be MUCH easier for us to help you.  :sillysmi:


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## cgipson1 (Jan 17, 2012)

e.rose said:


> I'm laying on the couch feeling like I'm on my death bed right now, so maybe my brain just isn't processing things correctly right now, but I think everyone would agree when I say.... if you posted example images (which I'm assuming you have since you said you did an experiment today), it would be MUCH easier for us to help you.  :sillysmi:



Miss Emily... I DO hope you get to feeling better soon! Here is a hug for you, too!  :hug::


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## mishele (Jan 17, 2012)

Help? No......that was not the intent of the thread.


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## cgipson1 (Jan 17, 2012)

mishele said:


> Help? No......that was not the intent of the thread.



.. hug for you too, Miss Mishele... just on general principles!         :hug::


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## e.rose (Jan 17, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> e.rose said:
> 
> 
> > I'm laying on the couch feeling like I'm on my death bed right now, so maybe my brain just isn't processing things correctly right now, but I think everyone would agree when I say.... if you posted example images (which I'm assuming you have since you said you did an experiment today), it would be MUCH easier for us to help you.  :sillysmi:
> ...



Aw, thanks! :hug::

It started hitting me late last night, and I just *knew* I was going to wake up feeling miserable today, haha.  It happens.  I'm just hoping that when my husband comes home and sees that I did NOTHING today, that he realizes I'm not just being lazy or spending all my time on the couch online for fun.

I just can't move.  

I'm hungry... and I keep trying to get my cat to cook dinner for me (I mean I feed HIM all the TIME!!), but he won't.  He just stays sleeping on the chair next to the couch I'm dying on.  :lmao:


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## cgipson1 (Jan 17, 2012)

e.rose said:


> I'm hungry... and I keep trying to get my cat to cook dinner for me (I mean I feed HIM all the TIME!!), but he won't.  He just stays sleeping on the chair next to the couch I'm dying on.  :lmao:



Be careful what you wish for... my little beast has woken me up twice by dropping a freshly caught mouse on my chest while I was sleeping. I don't know if he was showing off, or thought I needed a snack! lol! (although it could have been a bribe to stop snoring too, I guess!)


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## GeorgieGirl (Jan 17, 2012)

.....awwww...feel better soon!


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## MLeeK (Jan 17, 2012)

Go back to the original assignment I gave you... It reads: 
_
Here is what you need to do today when you are spending your shooting/learning time. 
First-learn about the focus points and how to use just one of them-not all.
THEN: Set up something inanimate. Teddy bear, shoe, coke bottle. It  doesn't matter what it is. Then play with your aperture. Shoot the  object from the same distance-say 5 feet, just shoot it at f/1.8; 2.8;  3.5; 5.6; 7.1 and so on... You will need AMPLE light to do this in.  Shoot outdoors if you can in the best possible amount of light. *Use your  auto ISO and aperture priority.* When you are done shooting put the  images on the computer and look at each one. 

Then shoot the same series over again from 10 feet away. Put the images on the computer and look at each one. 

Come back and tell us what you saw and learned.
Tomorrow's assignment: Shutter speed-hand held._

What we are looking for is ONLY the effects from aperture. I don't care what your other settings do. I only want you to see the aperture in this assignment.
Yes, you will need to have a point of sharp focus in each image, so don't ignore focus. If you are using your tripod it shouldn't change, so the images should all be exactly the same except for the amount of focus in them. Which leads me to...

I also said wayyyy back in probably your first or second post that I REALLY think that lens of yours is front or back focusing. The fact that you had NO focus in the images posted at f/1.8 AND you have no focus in this project at 1.8 and don't really have focus until 6.3 REALLY makes me think you have a lens with a focusing issue. 
You NEED to test that lens. You will never get a good photograph out of a lens that is focusing somewhere other than where you are locking your focus. You are beating your head against a wall for something that is probably not your fault here!!!

When did you purchase the lens? Do you have the receipt? Did you register it for warranty?


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## e.rose (Jan 17, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> e.rose said:
> 
> 
> > I'm hungry... and I keep trying to get my cat to cook dinner for me (I mean I feed HIM all the TIME!!), but he won't.  He just stays sleeping on the chair next to the couch I'm dying on.  :lmao:
> ...



Aww! 



GeorgieGirl said:


> .....awwww...feel better soon!



Thanks lady! :hug::

Sorry for the brief hijack.


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## MLeeK (Jan 17, 2012)

e.rose said:


> I'm laying on the couch feeling like I'm on my death bed right now, so maybe my brain just isn't processing things correctly right now, but I think everyone would agree when I say.... if you posted example images (which I'm assuming you have since you said you did an experiment today), it would be MUCH easier for us to help you.  :sillysmi:


I had been wondering where you were!


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## e.rose (Jan 17, 2012)

MLeeK said:


> e.rose said:
> 
> 
> > I'm laying on the couch feeling like I'm on my death bed right now, so maybe my brain just isn't processing things correctly right now, but I think everyone would agree when I say.... if you posted example images (which I'm assuming you have since you said you did an experiment today), it would be MUCH easier for us to help you.  :sillysmi:
> ...



Oh, well THAT'S not why I've been missing.  If anything, that's why I came BACK today, hahaha. 

I've just been super busy.

My husband and I moved the day after Christmas, so on top of the holidays, we were busy packing... moving... unpacking... and somewhere in there I was trying to find time to edit and go to shows and what not... 

But since I'm immobilized today, I figured today would be a great day to stop in and curse you all with my presence.


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## Elizabeth30 (Jan 17, 2012)

MLeeK said:


> Go back to the original assignment I gave you... It reads:
> _
> Here is what you need to do today when you are spending your shooting/learning time.
> First-learn about the focus points and how to use just one of them-not all.
> ...



Ok, my bad, I forgot to change my ISO to auto. I will repeat the assignment tomorrow. I don't "think" the lens has an issue, It wasn't that I didn't have focus at all but the one that looked best was at f/6.3. The first had no focus what so ever, but I have had great point of focus wide open before so I think it was my fault. I never bought this lens. My grandfather is a photographer and when he switched to Nikon he gave me this lens. He said it was practically new and he hadn't used it much.

Ok so tomorrow it's supposed to be sunny so that will be beneficial. What if I do the assignment using my 50mm and then switch to my 18-55mm and do it again with that lens?


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## MLeeK (Jan 17, 2012)

Post the images in a flickr so I can see them. Particularly the f/1.8, 2.8 and 3.5 images. 


e.rose:You have my deepest sympathies. Moving the day after Christmas is not something I EVER want to contemplate. You deserve a day of incapacitated!!


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## Compaq (Jan 17, 2012)

Sick exercises that are (almost) fun:

- lie silently, and try to make note of all the different sounds you're hearing.. as in everything!
- try to control those "lights" that appear when you close your eyes. Make them blue, make them yellow, make them green circles which spin, or make them into faces. Try to see cars, trees, whatever you like
- get into a comfortable position with a solid wall in front of you. Be equipped with one soft ball of some sort. Throw ball at wall and catch. Count all the times you can do this without dropping it. For more experienced wallballers, throw with one hand, catch with the other. Or, do everything with your off hand. Or, if you're feeling gutsy, throw the ball at the wall, and don't catch the ball. Let it fall onto your stomach, chest, balls (for all the male members) or face, depending on how intolerant to pain you are. Highly recommended to have more than one ball. Should you, God forbid, drop it, there's nothing worse than actually picking it up again. Even better, have a wallball slave that picks it up for you, without you needing to ask. This is addictive, beware of major time killing
- look at your walls, and try to notice all the different angles you see. Some angles are 90 degrees, but they doesn't seem like it from your perspective. Reflect upon that, and think about how little we actually know. How knowledge all depends on our perspective. Why do we call something a rectangle? Because the norm is to determine the shape of the object from _directly above_. Not from the sides, which would make a rectangle more into a trapezoid.  Reflect upon that, and come up with other examples which demonstrate that "knowledge" depends on our perspective and our current paradigm.


Try it, thank me later


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## RebeccaAPhotography (Jan 17, 2012)

Well Emily we like to be cursed by your presence  hope ya feel better soon. 

Too Elizabeth  just take some time and practice practice practice. I'd shy from posting on the forum. When the going gets ugly it'll get super ugly. I've seen this happen with many a noobs. Practice til you think you nailed your assignment then and only then post your photo for cc. Write what you were going for. The exif data. How you think you did. What you could have done differently. 

Just trying to look out for ya b4 it does get uglier. Doesn't mean leave but hide in the shadows and read other posts for a bit and practice 

On a brighter note! Keep shooting girlie! Don't let the "man" get you down!! Practice and prove to these folks you are taking in what theyre saying! 

I too was in your shoes when I first joined here. I too thought I was good enough to charge for photos. I too rushed into trying to learn everything. I too got blasted from more of the seasoned folks for not taking in what they were saying  i too was told to slow down. So i slowed downI took someones advice and practice practice practiced and stopped posting for a bit and then when I did reappear they saw I did take what they were telling me and applied it. Now a lot of the folks I look up to and hope they cc me do cc me bc they saw that I really did slow down and try. Just gotta slow down. Rome wasn't built in a day


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## katerolla (Jan 17, 2012)

Elizabeth30 said:


> The best one was at f/6.3 So that tells me that this small bottle didn't even have the best focus until f/6.3 so if I'm tring to focus a person (obviously much larger) then I'm really cheating myself out of a good photo by shooting wide open.
> 
> That being said I'm going to half to redo the assignment due to the low lighting today. When my shutter is only going at 1/8 there is no way to really see if the OOF is due to aperture change or shutter speed. Cuz 1/8 is REALLY slow even with a tripod it's difficult to get a decent pic at that speed.




shutter does not control DOF 

not cheating youself out of a good photo by shooting at a wide aperture, it's realy hard to focus at a low F stop but if you do it right its amazing.

just watch Gevin


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## Elizabeth30 (Jan 17, 2012)

MLeeK said:


> Post the images in a flickr so I can see them. Particularly the f/1.8, 2.8 and 3.5 images.
> 
> 
> e.rose:You have my deepest sympathies. Moving the day after Christmas is not something I EVER want to contemplate. You deserve a day of incapacitated!!



Ok, they are uploaded..... do I need put the aperture in description for you? 
Aperture Test - a set on Flickr


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## sm4him (Jan 17, 2012)

e.rose said:


> My husband and I moved the day after Christmas, so on top of the holidays, we were busy packing... moving... unpacking... and somewhere in there I was trying to find time to edit and go to shows and what not...
> 
> But since I'm immobilized today, I figured today would be a great day to stop in and curse you all with my presence.



Moving the day after Christmas; what fun!   When I was six, my family actually moved on Christmas Eve!! I'm pretty sure my parents were insane, lol...FIVE kids, and they moved on Christmas Eve. My seven-year-old sister and I were distraught because we just knew that Santa wouldn't know where to find us.
When Christmas morning arrived, and Santa had left just the right things at our new home...well, that was the beginning of the end for me. I knew *something* had to be wrong with that picture, lol!

Hope you feel better soon!! Unless feeling better is going to take you away from TPF again...in that case, you can just stay sick. :lmao:


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## thereyougo! (Jan 17, 2012)

Elizabeth30 said:


> MLeeK said:
> 
> 
> > Post the images in a flickr so I can see them. Particularly the f/1.8, 2.8 and 3.5 images.
> ...


Congratulations on your perseverence!  I've looked at them but not in great detail.  How stable was your tripod? I say this as there is motion blur in some and the position isn't always exactly the same.  Were you affected by wind at all?


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## Elizabeth30 (Jan 17, 2012)

thereyougo! said:


> Elizabeth30 said:
> 
> 
> > MLeeK said:
> ...



a little wind but something isn't right with the tripod I think...... it seemed top heavy and the slightest touch would make it fall slightly. I tried tightening it but it did not want to go any tighter....


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## e.rose (Jan 17, 2012)

Elizabeth30 said:
			
		

> The best one was at f/6.3 So that tells me that this small bottle didn't even have the best focus until f/6.3 so if I'm tring to focus a person (obviously much larger)* then I'm really cheating myself out of a good photo by shooting wide open. *









50mm f/1.8, 1/100, ISO100

This image is clearly out of focus.








50mm f/1.8, 1/80, ISO3200... under MUCH less light than an overcast day outside, AND my subject was *moving*







50mm f/1.8, 1/80, ISO3200... under MUCH less light than an overcast day outside, AND my subject was *moving*

.
.
.
.
.

So you are *definitely* not cheating yourself by taking photos of people with a small aperture.  You just need to learn to get *better* at it. :sillysmi:


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## thereyougo! (Jan 17, 2012)

Elizabeth30 said:


> thereyougo! said:
> 
> 
> > Elizabeth30 said:
> ...


It's pretty crucial that you have your tripod stable as especially at the larger apertures (smaller numbers) just a tiny difference in position can mean that the results are hard to compare.


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## e.rose (Jan 17, 2012)

sm4him said:


> Hope you feel better soon!! Unless feeling better is going to take you away from TPF again...in that case, you can just stay sick. :lmao:



Haha, I'll make you a deal... If I'm allowed to get better, I'll make more of an effort to visit once in a while.


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## thereyougo! (Jan 17, 2012)

e.rose said:


> Elizabeth30 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not having a dig, but what distance were you from the subject?  Have you cropped the original at all.  Was it comparable?


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## e.rose (Jan 17, 2012)

thereyougo! said:


> Not having a dig, but what distance were you from the subject?  Have you cropped the original at all.  Was it comparable?



About 5 feet from both of them, which is why I chose those specific photos as an example.  Obviously I don't have anything EXACTLY as what the OP has, because I didn't do her test, but what I posted is a "real world" example, if you will, of using f/1.8 on something larger than a bottle and not cheating myself out of a good photo.  At least *I* don't think I did... opinions may vary.  :lmao:


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## Ron Evers (Jan 17, 2012)

Elizabeth, it sounds like your tripod is not of sufficient quality.


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## MLeeK (Jan 17, 2012)

The first image shot at 1.8 isn't just soft, it's totally out of focus. F/2 is in good focus. Can you shoot a few more things at f/1.8 for me and post them. Just the same way. Preferably with a high shutter speed. The SS in that one was 1/100 and shouldn't be the problem, but something is NOT right there.


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## TMBPhotography (Jan 17, 2012)

I disagree with peoples thoughts about going away for a week, shooting tons of pics and then coming back and posting what they believe is their best work. Reason being, I could shoot a 1000 pics tomorrow but if I haven't corrected my issues, the 1000 pics will be crap. if I shoot say 50 pics. Take my best one, post it, you all will tell me what I did wrong. I go back out, fix those errors and try again. Post that pic, find out my errors and so on and so on. My point being, if you don't know what you're looking for and what you're doing wrong, you're taking a ton of pics and not getting better. We noobs need your advice about what to fix cause we obviously didn't know it was wrong to begin with or else we would've corrected it by now. We all need critiques to point out our miscues in the beginning.


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## Elizabeth30 (Jan 17, 2012)

MLeeK said:


> The first image shot at 1.8 isn't just soft, it's totally out of focus. F/2 is in good focus. Can you shoot a few more things at f/1.8 for me and post them. Just the same way. Preferably with a high shutter speed. The SS in that one was 1/100 and shouldn't be the problem, but something is NOT right there.



You mean tomorrow with the same set-up? Or now with anything?


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## cgipson1 (Jan 17, 2012)

elizabeth30, You might also consider using the self timer when you have the camera on a tripod.... or get a inexpensive cable release for it. (I wouldn't worry about mirror lockup right now.. you don't need it for these shots.).. but don't touch the camera or the tripod untill after the shot is over.


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## RebeccaAPhotography (Jan 17, 2012)

cgipson1 said:
			
		

> elizabeth30, You might also consider using the self timer when you have the camera on a tripod.... or get a inexpensive cable release for it. (I wouldn't worry about mirror lockup right now.. you don't need it for these shots.).. but don't touch the camera or the tripod untill after the shot is over.



Oh gips you didn't give up on her after all. I just finished reading her other thread. Elizabeth you get quite the comments. Your still trying to help 

Elizabeth sounds like you have a cheap tripod. Mleek I think your onto something. I agree I think the lens isn't working correctly.


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## Elizabeth30 (Jan 17, 2012)

e.rose said:


> So you are *definitely* not cheating yourself by taking photos of people with a small aperture.  You just need to learn to get *better* at it. :sillysmi:



Nice shots!!


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## Elizabeth30 (Jan 17, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> elizabeth30, You might also consider using the self timer when you have the camera on a tripod.... or get a inexpensive cable release for it. (I wouldn't worry about mirror lockup right now.. you don't need it for these shots.).. but don't touch the camera or the tripod untill after the shot is over.



Yes, I hadn't thought about the timer thing, I'll try that tomorrow. Mirror lock up? I have not heard this term before? to lock up the handle where the tripod moves side to side??


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## Proteus617 (Jan 17, 2012)

RebeccaAPhotography said:


> cgipson1 said:
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> 
> 
> ...



If you are shooting wide open in natural light, you most likely have a very fast shutter speed.  A cheap tripod will transmit the vibration you created when you push the shutter button.  If you don't have a cable release, use the self timer.  Trust me.  I spent years with a cheap tripod listening to my camera go beep beep beep.  I would not jump to conclusions concerning the lens.  Besides, the Great Weegee said F8 and be there. Not F1.8 and be there.


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## Proteus617 (Jan 17, 2012)

Elizabeth30 said:


> Yes, I hadn't thought about the timer thing, I'll try that tomorrow. Mirror lock up? I have not heard this term before? to lock up the handle where the tripod moves side to side??



When you push the shutter button, your mirror snaps out of the light path.  This produces a certain amount of vibration.  Locking up the mirror before you trip the shutter allows time for the vibrations to dampen.  You start to worry about MLU after you have a solid tripod, good technique, and you can notice the difference.


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## cgipson1 (Jan 17, 2012)

RebeccaAPhotography said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't give up easy..... although it was close!   Really bugged me when she just "disregarded" the Traveler so flippantly.... lots of good knowledge there!


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## GnipGnop (Jan 18, 2012)

I honestly think what she is trying to learn over the Internet could be taught to her within minutes in person. 

Elizabeth, have you ever thought about taking classes? I think it might be more appropriate for your learning style.


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## RebeccaAPhotography (Jan 18, 2012)

GnipGnop said:
			
		

> I honestly think what she is trying to learn over the Internet could be taught to her within minutes in person.
> 
> Elizabeth, have you ever thought about taking classes? I think it might be more appropriate for your learning style.



I def agree with that!! Do a community Ed class if you don't want to spend big $$ on an actual accredited class. I'm gonna take the Photoshop class from our local colleges. I do a music class to which is really a "volunteer symphony" well worth the $20 I have to spend. I would think with your dyslexia that even this Internet forum is probably a bit hard too. 

Look into the classes I think they could do wonders for you. You have an eye but that's it right now.


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## o hey tyler (Jan 18, 2012)

Next time, you may want to MANUALLY focus your camera in LIVE VIEW mode so that you can insure that the subject is in focus. You should leave the lens on manual focus for the duration of the test, so that a half press of the shutter doesn't re-focus the photo. 

That way, you will have far more consistent tests.


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## KmH (Jan 18, 2012)

'Learning styles' is a canard.


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## kundalini (Jan 18, 2012)

If you want to conduct conclusive testing, then you have to keep varriables under your control using useful objectives. I didn't read all the responses because it got slightly off topic (be well Emily) and some of the responses were misinformation and some were out and out BS. If I read correctly, your goal was to test DoF combined with achieving proper focus.

When using a tripod (manditory for this purpose), shutter speed and ISO are inconsequential. Using MUP (mirror lock up) along with a remote shutter release are best practices, but the self timer is the next best option. 

To determine DoF effects of the various apertures, you'll want a minimum of three staggered objects. This way you get to witness the expanding DoF as you stop down your lens.
I suggest to switch to Manual shooting mode because you will have complete control over the exposure triangle elements.... Aperture, Shutter Speed and ISO and only the variable you choose will change.

Once you set up your scene for the test, I also suggest to turn off AF after you achieved focus. As far as setting up the scene, measure everything from the plane of your sensor. There is a white dot on the left side of your camera body that indicates where it is.

So here is my little rendition of how I would (and have) tested the field results of changing aperture to gain insight of how DoF works.
Nikon D300 with 50mm lens
Manual Shooting Mode - ISO 200 - WB Cloudy - 
Tripod weighted down (70-200mm f/2.8 in case hung on tripod)
Remote shutter release and MUP employed.
Full 2 stop difference between shots.
Spot Metering and all shots metered to Zero.
Focus on the word Countreau 32" from sensor plane. Cointreau to nose of giraffe = 6" forward, Cointreau to nose of Winston = 6" rearward.

f/1.8, 1/2500s







f/3.5, 1/1000s







f/7.1, 1/200s






f/14, 1/50s







The sun was going in and out of the clouds, so exposure varied slightly. 

I have to jump on a conference call, so I'll do 100% later..... if I remember.


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## punch (Jan 18, 2012)

KmH said:


> 'Learning styles' is a canard.



WTF are you talking about?  Now you're an education expert as well?  Try to be abrupt and judgmental about things you actually know.


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## unpopular (Jan 18, 2012)

katerolla said:


> just watch Gevin



Gevin forgot about ND filters :er:


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## Ballistics (Jan 18, 2012)

KmH said:


> 'Learning styles' is a canard.



Howard Gardner strongly disagrees, as well do I.


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## GnipGnop (Jan 18, 2012)

KmH said:


> 'Learning styles' is a canard.



Says who? You? Do you have a background in pedagogy? Have you ever taught a class and actually researched effective teaching methods?

There are many different learning styles, and many different ways to adapt them. People also exhibit strengths and weaknesses in various learning styles based on what they are learning. Some people are kinesthetic and learn best through movement and activity. Some people are perfectly find at reading instructions and producing results. Some people need to see someone do it first in order to learn properly and so on.

You can go even further and apply proximal learning techniques that include things like the environment, personal space, noise level and even aesthetics. 

A canard. :lmao::lmao:


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## Ron Evers (Jan 18, 2012)

Off topic guys!


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## SCraig (Jan 18, 2012)

Ron Evers said:


> Off topic guys!


Hell, that hasn't stopped them before.  Why start now?


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## punch (Jan 18, 2012)

Who's "them?"  My comment was germane.


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## GnipGnop (Jan 18, 2012)

Them. :rolls eyes: You came in here just to write that? Congratulations. Nice ST1300 by the way.


Anyway, the reason I suggested you take some courses is because I can imagine the frustration you must be having trying to learn all of these things on your own, and coming back in here only to be told you're doing it wrong. I feel like what you are trying to accomplish here could be done a lot easier for you if you were being taught it by a person standing with you. 

That way, you can get out and start taking pictures of things you enjoy. I know I'd be frustrated if I were in your position. 

I also don't mean to discount every one who's chimed in to help so far. I just think this is taking far longer to explain when compared to a real life lesson.


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## cgipson1 (Jan 18, 2012)

GnipGnop said:


> I just think this is taking far longer to explain when compared to a real life lesson.



not really! Unfortunately.. we see this happen often... especially recently!


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## kundalini (Jan 18, 2012)

Okay, back to Elizabeth, if you don't mind.    :er:


100% (or there abouts) crops of the previous images I posted for review.


f/1.8








f/3.5







f/7.1







f/14







You can clearly see that f/1.8 is the softest focus of the lot.  This is why people are harping on you to stop down your lens.  Unless you're close to your minimum focusing distance, f/1.8 will not typically yield satisfactory results.  Even when stopped down 2 full stops (f/3.5) you can still render some good OOF background given the rights distances of camera-to-subject and subject-to-background.  BTW, the brick wall in the background is ~25' away..... no measurement, but a damn good SWAG.

Keep practicing, keep reading, keep questioning.  Good luck.


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## GnipGnop (Jan 18, 2012)

Wow great follow up! The only thing in focus at 1.8 is the very front of the shaker. And even that is a soft.


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## KmH (Jan 18, 2012)

punch said:


> KmH said:
> 
> 
> > 'Learning styles' is a canard.
> ...


It's a persistant urban legend that has been disproved by many studies if you bother to look at the appropriate liteature. I'm no education expert but over the years i have studied many things to one level or another.

How about you? What do you know about so-called learning styles that is based on information from an accredited source?


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## punch (Jan 18, 2012)

KmH said:


> punch said:
> 
> 
> > KmH said:
> ...



I have 550 students this semester, my career is in academia in a University setting and I have a PhD.  Learning is my life.

Having said all of that, my point was not to debate education with you, rather, it was to stop you from being condescending and attempting to disuade someone from getting learning advice.


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## Redeyejedi (Jan 18, 2012)

elizabeth, what kind of tripod are you using? what is it made out of and how much was paid for it.
i have 5 tripods, three are only good for holding my speedlights. my gorilla pod(~$90) and my main tripod(~$240) are barely adequate for my d300 with 105mm attached.


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## Ballistics (Jan 18, 2012)

KmH said:


> punch said:
> 
> 
> > KmH said:
> ...



Oh jeez, the study cop out. Well you read a few studies "disproving" the theory so therefore it's impossible that it's true. C'mon you're not that naive are you?


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## Tee (Jan 18, 2012)

KmH-  you are so far off base it's not even funny.  You're veering out of your lane of elitism.


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## Elizabeth30 (Jan 18, 2012)

kundalini said:


> Okay, back to Elizabeth, if you don't mind.    :er:
> 
> 
> 100% (or there abouts) crops of the previous images I posted for review.
> ...



Very good! I agree, the photo at 3.5 looks immensely better than at 1.8!! thank you! and *swag LMAO!


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## Elizabeth30 (Jan 18, 2012)

punch said:


> KmH said:
> 
> 
> > punch said:
> ...



oh!!! TREATED!!! :lmao:


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## unpopular (Jan 18, 2012)

That monkey is ready to party.


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## Elizabeth30 (Jan 18, 2012)

GnipGnop said:


> I honestly think what she is trying to learn over the Internet could be taught to her within minutes in person.
> 
> Elizabeth, have you ever thought about taking classes? I think it might be more appropriate for your learning style.



Yes, I have and I would love to take classes but money is tight and our local community college only offers photography work shops and financial aid won't cover these classes. I am very seriously considering going back to take some Photoshop classes though.


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## MTVision (Jan 18, 2012)

Elizabeth30 said:
			
		

> Yes, I have and I would love to take classes but money is tight and our local community college only offers photography work shops and financial aid won't cover these classes. I am very seriously considering going back to take some Photoshop classes though.



You might be able to get a non-degree grant to take a workshop like they offer at your local college.


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## Elizabeth30 (Jan 18, 2012)

MTVision said:


> Elizabeth30 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Really? I've never heard of this..... I will google that!


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## Ballistics (Jan 18, 2012)

Elizabeth30 said:


> MTVision said:
> 
> 
> > Elizabeth30 said:
> ...



Financial aid is very easy to come by these days. Especially if money is tight. What city are you in?


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## RebeccaAPhotography (Jan 18, 2012)

Look into it 

I luck out our community Ed classes end up costing like $40  not that bad


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## Ballistics (Jan 18, 2012)

If I didn't have the GI Bill, I would have had school completely paid for via TA


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## Elizabeth30 (Jan 18, 2012)

Ballistics said:


> Elizabeth30 said:
> 
> 
> > MTVision said:
> ...



It's not that I don't qualify, financial aid typically doesn't cover non-degree courses.


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## Ballistics (Jan 18, 2012)

Elizabeth30 said:


> Ballistics said:
> 
> 
> > Elizabeth30 said:
> ...



Sure it does.

My wife received full financial aid for a 10 month cosmetology school.


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## unpopular (Jan 18, 2012)

Ballistics said:


> Elizabeth30 said:
> 
> 
> > Ballistics said:
> ...


No. The OP is right. You cannot get US federal financial aid unless you are more than 1/4 time and a declared student (you have a declared major)  at an accredited college, university or trade program. It also would nt make sense to enroll in college for federal aid unless you plan to graduate as it can screw up your eligibility later on.


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## MTVision (Jan 18, 2012)

unpopular said:
			
		

> No. The OP is right. You cannot get US federal financial aid unless you are more than 1/4 time and a declared student (you have a declared major)  at an accredited college, university or trade program. It also would nt make sense to enroll in college for federal aid unless you plan to graduate as it can screw up your eligibility later on.



True. But states usually offer types of aid but it varies. My state offers non-degree grants. But that is state funded not federally funded.  

I don't think it would necessarily screw up financial aid eligibility later unless you took out loans and defaulted on them. I got a 2 year degree from a community college transferred to the University of Vermont and dropped out after a year. 6 years later I applied to another university - got accepted and had no issues with the financial aid. Most classes can be used in a degree program. If someone was to take 2 full years of just random electives and then decided to go for a bachelors that would screw them.  They would run out of aid before they were able to finish. 

Ballistics - cosmetology would be considered a type of trade school I believe.


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## unpopular (Jan 18, 2012)

It's not that big of a deal, but you may need to request an extension if you run out of eligible credits. Usually it's a song and dance, you fill out a form, you go to a dozen offices and collect signatures and you get it granted. But I don't know all the details and what those financial aid officers at doing behind the scenes, but the worst thats going to happen is you'll just have o pay for a few credits out of pocket. I'm pretty sure you're still eligible for loans even if you are over your limit.

Another concern would be to ensure you get at least passing grades otherwise you cold end up on financial aid probation. So if you're getting aid, make sure to commit yourself.


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## kundalini (Jan 18, 2012)

unpopular said:


> That monkey is ready to party.


Do a keyword search for Winston under my username.  You might be surprised what you'll find.


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## kundalini (Jan 18, 2012)

GnipGnop said:


> Wow great follow up! *The only thing in focus at 1.8 is the very front of the shaker*. And even that is a soft.



Glad to see you're trying to stay on top of things.


*Post 54*


kundalini said:


> ..... Focus on the word Countreau 32" from sensor plane. Cointreau to nose of giraffe = 6" forward, Cointreau to nose of Winston = 6" rearward.



*Post 64*


kundalini said:


> You can clearly see that f/1.8 is the softest focus of the lot. .......






:er:


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## GnipGnop (Jan 18, 2012)

Wow. Last time I send any praise your way.


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## unpopular (Jan 18, 2012)

I was called a d!ckweed after complimenting one guy ... What s a d!ckweed anyway?


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## Ballistics (Jan 19, 2012)

unpopular said:


> Ballistics said:
> 
> 
> > Elizabeth30 said:
> ...



This is wrong completely. I'm living proof. I completed 2 semesters as a non-matriculated student, I literally just declared a major like 3 weeks go. All non-matriculated students are classified under general studies anyway. I applied for financial aid in April of 2011 and was approved in May of 2011 as a non-matriculated student. Furthermore, my local BOCES offers courses like photography which can be covered by TA. I did it myself. I applied for and was approved for a welding course, but was never able to attend. You don't have to "plan" to do anything when you enroll in college. People attend community colleges all the time, stop going, and then go back later and have no complications.

Taking it a step further,The Pell Grant is paid out by less than half, half, 3/4 and full time. One course constitutes as less than half, and you can receive up to $1,340 to attend a course.

Edit: I received my first installment of financial aid which included TAP and Pell which came to around $4000 in the beginning of October of 2011. I declared my major mid December.


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## blackrose89 (Jan 19, 2012)

unpopular said:


> I was called a d!ckweed after complimenting one guy ... What s a d!ckweed anyway?



[h=3]Definition for *dickweed*:[/h]
Web definitions:



There are a few total definitions


1.
Dickweed
1) A completely self-absorbed, useless asshole with **** for brains;

2) A person so irredeemably stupid that their idiotic behavior causes pain to everyone that they interact with. 



1.
Dickweed

1) A completely self-absorbed, useless asshole with **** for brains;

2) A person so irredeemably stupid that their idiotic behavior causes pain to everyone that they interact with. 


2.
dickweed
A person whose penis is so inactive that it literally begins to grow weeds.

Dude is that Socrates over there? He's a big time dickweed. I can see **** growing in his pants.






Couldn't resist


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## Elizabeth30 (Jan 19, 2012)

Ballistics said:


> unpopular said:
> 
> 
> > Ballistics said:
> ...



I wasn't referring to whether or not "declaring" your degree had anything to do with the financial aid, but these are workshop classes that DONOT earn any credits. Unfortunantly out of 4 local colleges none of them offer a photography program. The only college offering anything related to photography only offers these workshops.


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## Ballistics (Jan 19, 2012)

What city are you from?


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## blackrose89 (Jan 19, 2012)

Is online school an option?


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## MTVision (Jan 19, 2012)

Ballistics said:
			
		

> This is wrong completely. I'm living proof. I completed 2 semesters as a non-matriculated student, I literally just declared a major like 3 weeks go. All non-matriculated students are classified under general studies anyway. I applied for financial aid in April of 2011 and was approved in May of 2011 as a non-matriculated student. Furthermore, my local BOCES offers courses like photography which can be covered by TA. I did it myself. I applied for and was approved for a welding course, but was never able to attend. You don't have to "plan" to do anything when you enroll in college. People attend community colleges all the time, stop going, and then go back later and have no complications.
> 
> Taking it a step further,The Pell Grant is paid out by less than half, half, 3/4 and full time. One course constitutes as less than half, and you can receive up to $1,340 to attend a course.
> 
> Edit: I received my first installment of financial aid which included TAP and Pell which came to around $4000 in the beginning of October of 2011. I declared my major mid December.



You do realize that was a NON-degree grant. That is what non-matriculating students get if it is offered. Look it up - some schools say that non-matriculating students do not get financial aid.


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## Ballistics (Jan 19, 2012)

MTVision said:


> Ballistics said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I received full TA. $7200 total for the year. $5200 was from Pell.

Well, until we know what city she is in we can't really rule anything out. I'm not saying that this is impossible, but both schools I have been to in two different states do not require matriculation in order to receive FA. Either way, you can declare a major and still take 1 course. Regardless though, if she can receive the pell grant, then matriculation is irrelevant anyway.


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## MTVision (Jan 19, 2012)

US Federal Student Aid

- be enrolled or accepted for enrollment as a regular student working toward a degree or certificate in an eligible program

Even the Pell Grant says that you must be enrolled in a degree program, not just taking classes in a non-matriculated format. 

No idea what TA is


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## Elizabeth30 (Jan 19, 2012)

Ballistics said:


> MTVision said:
> 
> 
> > Ballistics said:
> ...


In the past I have received both Pell, along with the IL Map grant. What would my city have to do with it? Shouldn't it be what state I'm in?


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## MLeeK (Jan 19, 2012)

So start with a degree course in general studies. 
How about just going to see the financial aid office at the college. They'll help you to get everything and anything you can get in student aid. 
When my husband started back to college his degree program was Phys Ed for lack of anything else he could think of-this from the disabled guy. Then it turned to IT or something in that general field. It's not like you can't change it every semester to suit your course load.
then take business courses, or an aerobics class or whatever. Most colleges have at least basic  photography and basic art classes. Take them too. Business especially marketing and accounting will be much needed as a photographer.


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## LadyJasmine (Jan 19, 2012)

I don't qualify for any financial aid or support because my husband makes too much money... and they expect us to pay for outrageous college courses?


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## Ballistics (Jan 19, 2012)

MTVision said:


> US Federal Student Aid
> 
> - be enrolled or accepted for enrollment as a regular student working toward a degree or certificate in an eligible program
> 
> ...



Tuition Assistance - As I have said twice now, non-matriculated students are considered General Studies which is considered Liberal Arts. I took 1 class and received TA.


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## Ballistics (Jan 19, 2012)

Elizabeth30 said:


> Ballistics said:
> 
> 
> > MTVision said:
> ...



The city has to do with what college you would be going to which would determine their policy. What city do you live in?


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## Ballistics (Jan 19, 2012)

LadyJasmine said:


> I don't qualify for any financial aid or support because my husband makes too much money... and they expect us to pay for outrageous college courses?



At an average, the cost at a community college for a photography cost should be about $150. If you think about it, that's actually pretty good. You get first hand information, hands on experience, direction, shooting assignments, possibly the ability to print your work and the list goes on. You can learn a lot on your own, but it would be expedited in a decent community college.


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## MTVision (Jan 19, 2012)

Ballistics said:
			
		

> Tuition Assistance - As I have said twice now, non-matriculated students are considered General Studies which is considered Liberal Arts. I took 1 class and received TA.



So technically you were a matriculating student who was under a liberal arts degree program. Non-matriculating students don't qualify for financial aid and are not working towards a degree.


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## MTVision (Jan 19, 2012)

Ballistics said:
			
		

> At an average, the cost at a community college for a photography cost should be about $150. If you think about it, that's actually pretty good. You get first hand information, hands on experience, direction, shooting assignments, possibly the ability to print your work and the list goes on. You can learn a lot on your own, but it would be expedited in a decent community college.



150.00? You do realize that it varies school to school? Local community college around me charges over 300.00 per credit - photography course is 3 credits - with a 150.00 lab fee.


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## unpopular (Jan 19, 2012)

$300/credit?? At a community college?? You were paying more for one class than my wife was full time at Casper (WY) College without any scholarships!

Man. I'm starting to see why people love Halliberton, BP and Sinclare so much in that state.


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## MTVision (Jan 19, 2012)

unpopular said:
			
		

> $300/credit?? At a community college?? You were paying more for one class than my wife was full time at Casper (WY) College without any scholarships!
> 
> Man. I'm starting to see why people love Halliberton, BP and Sinclare so much in that state.



Actually it's more like 214.00/credit for a regular student at the community college. I pay 300/credit because I go to a regular 4 yr college that is about a 4 hour drive so I take the classes that I can at the community college. For out of state students it's like 430.00/credit


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## Ballistics (Jan 19, 2012)

MTVision said:


> Ballistics said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You can call it what you want. I've been to 2 colleges now, did not declare a major and received financial aid. 



> 150.00? You do realize that it varies school to school? Local community college around me charges over 300.00 per credit - photography course is 3 credits - with a 150.00 lab fee.



You do understand what "At an average" means right? Meaning that it can cost more and it can cost less. My lab fee for 2 semesters is $50. 

$300 a credit for a 3rd or 4th year student maybe. My school is $167 a credit which is a dollar more than the Fashion Institute of Technology which has some great photography classes.
Oakton Community College which is about 20 minutes north of chicago is $90 a credit. $150 for a class may be on the low side, but it was just a guesstimate. $900 for a course however is ridiculous.


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## Ballistics (Jan 19, 2012)

MTVision said:


> unpopular said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Now you are talking something completely different. What school do you go to that is 214 dollars for an instate student?


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## MTVision (Jan 19, 2012)

Ballistics said:
			
		

> Now you are talking something completely different. What school do you go to that is 214 dollars for an instate student?



214/credit for the community college of Vermont - how is that any different then what your talking about?


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## Ballistics (Jan 19, 2012)

MTVision said:


> Ballistics said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's the difference of $270 vs $645 and also the difference between instate and out of state tuition, and you said $300 a credit making my $50 a credit claim seem nuts, meanwhile there are colleges that literally charge $40-70 per credit depending on the conditions. We're talking about 1 class at a community college. If she lives near chicago, there are 3 or 4 community colleges in that area that offer photography courses at around $90 a credit. When I lived in philly, the community college I went to was 65 dollars a credit.  Now it's $99.


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## MTVision (Jan 19, 2012)

Ballistics said:
			
		

> You can call it what you want. I've been to 2 colleges now, did not declare a major and received financial aid.
> 
> You do understand what "At an average" means right? Meaning that it can cost more and it can cost less. My lab fee for 2 semesters is $50.
> 
> ...



Community colleges are usually 2yr schools and I've been to 3 colleges and have never charged a different rate because of what year I was in. 

I do know what on average means. But you are still incorrect. You still tell someone that on average a photography  course costs 150.00 - unless you actually know that. My whole point is that it varies depending on geographical location. That's like saying the average cost of a year of college costs 1000.00. 

Photography course may cost you 150.00 but someone in the next state over might pay 600.00 for it.


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## MTVision (Jan 19, 2012)

Ballistics said:
			
		

> It's the difference of $270 vs $645 and also the difference between instate and out of state tuition, and you said $300 a credit making my $50 a credit claim seem nuts, meanwhile there are colleges that literally charge $40-70 per credit depending on the conditions. We're talking about 1 class at a community college. If she lives near chicago, there are 3 or 4 community colleges in that area that offer photography courses at around $90 a credit. When I lived in philly, the community college I went to was 65 dollars a credit.  Now it's $99.



That's not any different. We are talking about community colleges right? It doesn't make your claim of 50/credit seem anything different then what I said to begin with - it varies depending on where you live.


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## unpopular (Jan 19, 2012)

MTVision said:


> unpopular said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The base tuition at my wife's school is $21k/yr, but nobody actually pays that. I think it works out to around $400/cr if you transfer in or have a highschool GPA of 3.5 or higher. My wife complains about all the dumb students, but she needs to remember they're paying half her tuition.

Which is quite a shock coming from a petro-funded community college paying in-state tuition. But also don't forget that many schools charge WAY less for non-degree seekers who audit.


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## o hey tyler (Jan 19, 2012)

HEY GUISE LETS ARGUE ABOUT COLLEGE K?


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## MLeeK (Jan 19, 2012)

MTVision said:


> Ballistics said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's not geographical, it's based on the cost of a credit for each *individual school*. As we all know an Ivy League school is going to be higher, whereas a community college is less. Then there are lab fees that may be associated with a course and admin fees associated with enrolling period. Obviously those fees are different if you are a part time student vs a full time student.
In state tuition and out of state tuition are a factor and many schools that are in border towns or close to it will have a "special" for students from that other state too... 
So... what costs you $150 for the course at a local community college may run you $200 at a state school in the same town. All of which also get the fees associated with being a student. 
$900 for a course is believable if it is a HIGH credit course-more than 3; expensive school-be it Ivy League or private college or whatever-and if there are large lab and book fees to go with it. It's NOT going to be a normal course. Aviation? Something that is a whole lot different than a basic business, English, photography course.

For the community college here it's an average of $212 per 3 credit course with books and fees included or roughly $2700 per semester for full time with the additional fees and books. When all is said and done with state and financial aid my husband usually nets back about $1000 to $1500. He then also has the GI bill which pays additional BAH per month while he is attending. 

All schools by law are required to provide a "net price" calculator so that students can research the costs associated with attending and you should be able to find it in the school's website. It calculates ALL of the costs including your housing, etc. with your dependents.


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## unpopular (Jan 19, 2012)

Good lord. Aviation fees are CRAZY. Lo's school offers a BS in Aviation Engineering, like $20k/year in FEES on top of tuition. All so you can fly around in circles over town.


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## MTVision (Jan 19, 2012)

unpopular said:
			
		

> The base tuition at my wife's school is $21k/yr, but nobody actually pays that. I think it works out to around $400/cr if you transfer in or have a highschool GPA of 3.5 or higher.
> 
> Which is quite a shock coming from a petro-funded community college paying in-state tuition. But also don't forget that many schools charge WAY less for non-degree seekers who audit.



Yeah tuition at my school for in-state students full-time is only like 8,568. I only end up paying around 5,000 for full-time beside I'm not a full-time on campus student. I can take classes at the community college (any Vermont college actually) and I usually take these stupid classes that are once a month, 8 hour classes for five months.


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## unpopular (Jan 19, 2012)

I think that Vermont is pretty expensive. University of Vermont's law program costs about the same as Cornell - which I don't completely understand. MSU-Billings is like $5500/year, in state, but I think MSU-Bozeman is more, and I know that University of Montana is more. But still, not much more.


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## MTVision (Jan 19, 2012)

MLeeK said:
			
		

> It's not geographical, it's based on the cost of a credit for each individual school. As we all know an Ivy League school is going to be higher, whereas a community college is less. Then there are lab fees that may be associated with a course and admin fees associated with enrolling period. Obviously those fees are different if you are a part time student vs a full time student.
> In state tuition and out of state tuition are a factor and many schools that are in border towns or close to it will have a "special" for students from that other state too...
> So... what costs you $150 for the course at a local community college may run you $200 at a state school in the same town. All of which also get the fees associated with being a student.
> $900 for a course is believable if it is a HIGH credit course-more than 3; expensive school-be it Ivy League or private college or whatever-and if there are large lab and book fees to go with it. It's NOT going to be a normal course. Aviation? Something that is a whole lot different than a basic business, English, photography course.
> ...



We aren't talking about ivy league schools. We are talking about community colleges. They do vary individually and geographically. Like I said the community college of Vermont is 214.00 a credit NOT including fees. It's for ALL classes. 4 credits course are 214/credit. I pay 300.00+ to take classes at the community college because I am a student at another college. It's called convenience.  

No matter which way you look at it - the community college in my state charges over 600.00 for any course. Once again it varies. 

http://www.ccv.edu/tuition


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## unpopular (Jan 19, 2012)

If the tuition is around $5k/year, full time, about $200/cr is about right. That works out to about $2400/sem at 12cr/sem.

Casper College costed like $900/sem due to income from the energy industry, and is likely WAY lower than most community colleges in states without these resources. The State of Wyoming has just BUCKETS of money and only one University (the state constitution prevents more than just one). So there is a lot of funding that goes to these community colleges ... that and road construction.


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## e.rose (Jan 19, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


> HEY GUISE LETS ARGUE ABOUT COLLEGE K?



I HAZ A COLLEGE DEGREE!!! (But iz not in photographix)


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## mishele (Jan 19, 2012)

So you can get Financial aid for hobbies now? lol
Seriously, you have everything you need here on the interent. If you need a little one on one time, join a Photography club in your area. People are more than willing to help. You might even find someone that will take you under their wing. 
That's just another option since you said you can not afford a class.


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## Elizabeth30 (Jan 19, 2012)

Ballistics said:


> Elizabeth30 said:
> 
> 
> > Ballistics said:
> ...


I live in Morton, but I would attend Illinois Central College in East Peoria.


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