# hm... social networks



## mmaria (Jun 29, 2015)

I don't like them. It's that simple. I was away from fb for a couple of years and I've never been on other social networks.

But... yes, I recently decided to be present on social network sites because I want to show my photography to more people. Do I have too like them? No... but I decided I need them.
I set up the Facebook page and signed up on Instagram. (trying to figure out things).

First I've noticed... The girl I photographed (senior shots) gets around 300 likes per photo, on fb, instagram...she's changing pictures on viber, whatsApp..she's everywhere...taking selfies and such... and those likes are from her friends I assume... I mean, What those young people do all day? Staring at their phone and computer all day, making friends, liking pictures?
Please go outside, do something else except changing your clothes and taking another picture of yourself!

another thing... I was thinking... I'l post "safe" photos on fb and I'll post those safe ones and boudoir shots on Instagram. I'm not comfortable yet for my father, aunt, neighbor etc. to look at girls I photographed that way. I'll be comfortable one day, but I'm just not ready yet.
I posted two boudoir shots Jimmy Choo there and planned to post more of those type of shots... and yesterday I got notified that my uncle is following me! What is doing on Instagram!? (he's about 50 yo, a redneck, if I can say it that way (sorry if I used the incorrect term) and really not a type of a man I would expect to have a smartphone, let alone to be on Instagram, but... I'm sooo wrong!)  It's my fault!

Last night I went to check my Facebook page, if there's maybe a new like there but I saw something else... The girl I photographed posted album, 6-7 shots, boudoir type, titled the album with my name and... She left two pictures the way I did them, the rest of them were badly cropped and two of them were with some cheesy bad bad filter applied. Why!?
I guess she knew better then me.
I contacted her the first thing in the morning and she deleted one picture and my name on them, and left the rest of the pictures.!? I'm afraid if I contact her again today I won't be able to politely say and explain her again "You're not suppose to do that!!!"

I know I'm not telling anything new to you guys, but I'm pretty under the impression of all of this. I'll get used to it of course.

Thank you for letting me rant a bit 

hm... actually, is there something that's happened to you on social networks that you could mention here.. it'll help me for sure


----------



## sscarmack (Jun 29, 2015)

Welcome to Social Networks HAHAH.


----------



## mmaria (Jun 29, 2015)

sscarmack said:


> Welcome to Social Networks HAHAH.


yeah exactly


----------



## Raj_55555 (Jun 29, 2015)

mmaria said:


> Last night I went to check my Facebook page, if there's maybe a new like there but I saw something else... The girl I photographed posted album, 6-7 shots, boudoir type, titled the album with my name and... She left two pictures the way I did them, the rest of them were badly cropped and two of them were with some cheesy bad bad filter applied. Why!?


I rarely take portraits, and not nearly as good as you do, still I hate it just as much when people do this. It just feels like someone is ruining my hard work, but as you said it's very difficult to maintain a good working relation and having to constantly warn people off like a police on duty. Most non-photographers don't realize how important this is to us, and they're easily offended as they find the matter trivial.

_Here's what I do, I tell them, in a very friendly manner, that any photo I edit is off limits for a re-edit as other photographers on my facebook profile judge me by my work and stuff you post can appear on their timeline when I like or comment on them. If you're not happy with an edit, talk to me and I'll work on it if possible._

I've never had any problems, and I've shared just about any photographs I've taken of anyone and my friends upload them all the time knowing full well they shouldn't edit them. I think what makes the difference is, people don't like to be told they've done something wrong, and will go on the defensive the moment you ask them to take a photo off the site; but the same people will co-operate if they knew from the onset not to mess with your work.


----------



## mmaria (Jun 29, 2015)

Raj_55555 said:


> I rarely take portraits, and not nearly as good as you do


 awww... you have to start with sweet talking 



> still I hate it just as much when people do this. It just feels like someone is ruining my hard work,


I really don't get it. How come she think that the picture is better with that orange-brownish-strong filter applied?



> but as you said it's very difficult to maintain a good working relation and having to constantly warn people off like a police on duty. Most non-photographers don't realize how important this is to us, and they're easily offended as they find the matter trivial.


yes



> _Here's what I do, I tell them, in a very friendly manner, that any photo I edit is off limits for a re-edit as other photographers on my facebook profile judge me by my work and stuff you post can appear on their timeline when I like or comment on them. If you're not happy with an edit, talk to me and I'll work on it if possible._
> 
> I've never had any problems, and I've shared just about any photographs I've taken of anyone and my friends upload them all the time knowing full well they shouldn't edit them. I think what makes the difference is, people don't like to be told they've done something wrong, and will go on the defensive the moment you ask them to take a photo off the site; but the same people will co-operate if they knew from the onset not to mess with your work.


She signed the model release and I explained her in person that she doesn't suppose to do anything with them. but...

I'm trying to figure out where on Facebook I could put a few words about altering photos in a manner you mentioned here

thank you


----------



## Raj_55555 (Jun 29, 2015)

mmaria said:


> She signed the model release and I explained her in person that she doesn't suppose to do anything with them. but...


In that case, it's simply unacceptable!


----------



## mmaria (Jun 29, 2015)

Raj_55555 said:


> mmaria said:
> 
> 
> > She signed the model release and I explained her in person that she doesn't suppose to do anything with them. but...
> ...


That's why I was so mad when I saw it.
I tried to be as polite as possible this morning but it wasn't easy


----------



## Designer (Jun 29, 2015)

I've experienced my own original artwork having been stolen, and I've also experienced my work being "bastardized" as well. 

The only suggestion that I can make is to stop making your work available to people who will do that.  

Try some "standard" advertising.  Get your business cards printed.  Offer a small discount for referrals who purchase.  Offer a small discount to repeat customers.  Use the social media to get your name out, but without a sample photograph.  Make your on-line portfolio password protected.  Get your best photos printed and offer to show them to prospective clients.


----------



## jsecordphoto (Jun 29, 2015)

I can't speak for portrait type work, as it's not my style at all (landscapes and wildlife for me), but social media is an integral part of my business. Granted, the business model that works for my style is mostly around print sales,licensing, and working with companies, but relying on word of mouth and handing out business cards does almost nothing for me- which I understand isn't what might work for you. Love it or hate it though, I think social media is a pretty damn important thing to focus on for every photographer these days


----------



## vintagesnaps (Jun 29, 2015)

READ THE TERMS! lol Seriously, even if they are ridiculously long and complicated (which I assume is so no one will want to read them) - at least look at them. I don't have to read all of it before I find something unacceptable most of the time.

Take your photos off until you do (or at least don't put any more on there!). You see already what happens - and fast! At least that's my suggestion, delete them and figure out what to post before you put anything else on there.

And it's publicly viewable depending on how you have your page set; even if you don't have it set public with all the sharing that happens you're sending your photos 'out there' and have no idea who may share them or who might see them or where they may end up. I personally would not post any boudoir on there. Better I think to post select photos only on there and a link to your own website.

For clients you can provide copies for social media use that are an appropriate size. Usually photographers (here anyway) provide client photos without a watermark but that's the problem with providing large digital files instead of prints and images for social media use - if you're giving them large digital files they can edit easily I suppose they will. Make it easy for them to use the copy that's for social media use so they'll be more likely to use it.

This is why I don't do people... lol I don't know if any info. from American Society of Media Photographers or maybe PPA would be relevant for you but might be worth a look. ASMP did a webinar on social media, they're free, don't have to be a member, just sign up (don't know if they'll do any more on that topic).

I rarely post a photo on FB (and I only have about 20 friends and 20 acquaintances and they're all people I know!) and if I do it's a downsized crappy copy of an old picture that was just for fun, that has a watermark and something about unauthorized use etc. Then after a day or two (or a few) I delete them.


----------



## Derrel (Jun 29, 2015)

I actually provide a number of "squares" specifically for Instagram.If you want your photos to look their absolute best on Instagram, then make some images that DO look good at the 1:1 aspect ratio, and talk to your clients about that. But yeah...most people who "edit" good images will not do them justice to the extent that a photographer would. And if there's one thing to keep in mind, it is that many,many people cannot tell excellent work from good work, or good work from average work, or average work from poor work...so I do not think the "hit" to one's reputation/ability level is anywhere near as great as you might imagine it to be. Anyway, you've highlighted a number of the issues surrounding social networks. And if you want to really set you mind at ease, you need to re-frame your attitude toward what social network involves: it is not a professional network, so professional courtesies are not exchanged, and it is a network, so the images are part of the networked world, the actual people involved...this is not a static, user-controlled thing, like printing a photo from a negative that was stored in a safe or vault--this is the way images are moved, stored, re-purposed, in a network that has a social function, not a professional or business function. 

In the year, 2015, you can NOT really ever maintain total control over images that you upload to social networks, or that others upload to social networks: the images WILL BE stored, WILL be screen-captured, WILL be edited/altered/re-purposed, and so on. Again, not to sound like a lecture, but many people seem to act as if it is still 1980, and that we can maintain an image in a strictly limited form, with ourselves holding a negative or transparency, and each and EVERY,single publication or printing or re-printing involving "us", the image creator. That model is dead,dead,dead. it's no longer worth the mental energy to fuss over a dead, outdated, historical model that actually went out the window back when color laser printers hit the market, then scanners, then the internet, and then in the early 2000's, digital cameras, and then in the 2007-2015 era, the rise of the smart phone and social media.


----------



## fotomonkey (Jun 29, 2015)

Designer said:


> I've experienced my own original artwork having been stolen, and I've also experienced my work being "bastardized" as well.
> I don't know what's worse, having it stolen or having it attributed to you.


I found one of my images being used as a CD cover. It was blown up from a 640*480 web image. Certainly not something I wanted people to see as a sample of my work. 

I've had good luck with cease and desist letters.


----------



## snerd (Jun 29, 2015)

LOL @ Maria............... you would be surprised at how much we "rednecks" are digitized in today's world. Hell, we have smart phones, digital cameras, social accounts on FB, Instagram, Twitter, Pinterest, Flickr, SmugMug, YouTube, Vimeo and countless other online sites. Addressing your concerns, however, I watched an interview with Gene Simmons (KISS fame) about how there will never really be another group or individual that makes it big, because society now feels "entitled" to everything on the web. For free. It's out there, so it must be for my use. It's a pretty messed up situation what with artist's copyrights and fair use and ownership and just everything related to trying to use the Internet to further your profession or area of endeavor. I'm so glad I don't do this professionally. I just share my stuff with my family. You know, captive audience and all.


----------



## Buckster (Jun 29, 2015)

While it's true that we can't strictly "control" everything that happens with our images once they're out there for people to see (which, after all, IS the point of making them), it's no reason for us to throw up our hands and feel helpless, nor to withhold our photos so that they can't be seen by anyone else.  There ARE other ways to deal with it.

For me, what works well is to be sure to:

1. Make sure that my written and signed agreement with every client is legally ironclad and very clear in what I allow and what I do not allow to be done with my images.  I offer my photos to clients a la carte, and one of the items they can choose to purchase along with prints is a digital image suitable for them to post online.

2. In a friendly but factual way, I explain the legalities of copyrights to them, and I make it 100% clear that purchasing a license to an image for online posting is the only way I will allow them to do so, and that I DO pursue legal remedies that involve monetary compensation well beyond my a la carte prices for violations of my copyrighted work, which gives them a good reason to do the right thing.

3. I register my copyright for every photo I shoot that doesn't get deleted.

4. I pursue monetary compensation using attorneys whenever I find one of my images being used without my permission, which is often enough that I'm on track to net another $10k-15k this year.

I don't get mad.  I don't send "cease and desist" letters.  And I don't take it lying down.  

I get money.  It's very calming.

But that's just me.


----------



## table1349 (Jun 29, 2015)




----------



## rexbobcat (Jun 29, 2015)

Sounds like somebody needs a beatdown.




 

In all seriousness, I'd probably begin putting stipulations on what the client can and can't do with the photos. "Feel free to share on social media but don't add your undoubtedly awful edits." Maybe word it a bit differently but that sort of thing lol.


----------



## mmaria (Jun 30, 2015)

Designer said:


> The only suggestion that I can make is to stop making your work available to people who will do that.


 How could I know who will do that?
I'm taking her for example, she signed the release and I explained her everything I could think of about the photographs, and she still doesn't get it and she altered the pictures. If she did that, what can I expect from other people?



> Try some "standard" advertising.  Get your business cards printed.  Offer a small discount for referrals who purchase.  Offer a small discount to repeat customers.  Use the social media to get your name out, but without a sample photograph.  Make your on-line portfolio password protected.  Get your best photos printed and offer to show them to prospective clients.


Photography here is so cheap that every discount is ridiculous... and this is not my job. I would have a different approach maybe if this was my job.

Anyway, in this area and this situation, it's very difficult to achieve anything with the approach like that


----------



## mmaria (Jun 30, 2015)

jsecordphoto said:


> I can't speak for portrait type work, as it's not my style at all (landscapes and wildlife for me), but social media is an integral part of my business. Granted, the business model that works for my style is mostly around print sales,licensing, and working with companies, but relying on word of mouth and handing out business cards does almost nothing for me- which I understand isn't what might work for you. Love it or hate it though, I think social media is a pretty damn important thing to focus on for every photographer these days


yeah.. I think the same. It's very important these days, that's why I decided to go for it


----------



## mmaria (Jun 30, 2015)

vintagesnaps said:


> READ THE TERMS! lol Seriously, even if they are ridiculously long and complicated (which I assume is so no one will want to read them) - at least look at them. I don't have to read all of it before I find something unacceptable most of the time.
> 
> Take your photos off until you do (or at least don't put any more on there!). You see already what happens - and fast! At least that's my suggestion, delete them and figure out what to post before you put anything else on there.
> 
> ...


The thing is...

I live in a messed up country where copyrights and art aren't that big of a deal, meaning that the country has so many other issues/problems that art issues simply doesn't get that much attention.
Unfortunately.
So, the first photo I uploaded,  on the official site of my organization was copied very quickly... 

I'm aware what can happen with my photos, but I simply don't want them to be stored in my drawer or in my computer. I want to share them.

I do really appreciate every like or critique I get on web... and web is the only place I talk about photography.


----------



## mmaria (Jun 30, 2015)

Derrel said:


> I actually provide a number of "squares" specifically for Instagram.If you want your photos to look their absolute best on Instagram, then make some images that DO look good at the 1:1 aspect ratio, and talk to your clients about that. But yeah...most people who "edit" good images will not do them justice to the extent that a photographer would. And if there's one thing to keep in mind, it is that many,many people cannot tell excellent work from good work, or good work from average work, or average work from poor work...so I do not think the "hit" to one's reputation/ability level is anywhere near as great as you might imagine it to be. Anyway, you've highlighted a number of the issues surrounding social networks. And if you want to really set you mind at ease, you need to re-frame your attitude toward what social network involves: it is not a professional network, so professional courtesies are not exchanged, and it is a network, so the images are part of the networked world, the actual people involved...this is not a static, user-controlled thing, like printing a photo from a negative that was stored in a safe or vault--this is the way images are moved, stored, re-purposed, in a network that has a social function, not a professional or business function.


 you're right



> In the year, 2015, you can NOT really ever maintain total control over images that you upload to social networks, or that others upload to social networks: the images WILL BE stored, WILL be screen-captured, WILL be edited/altered/re-purposed, and so on. Again, not to sound like a lecture, but many people seem to act as if it is still 1980, and that we can maintain an image in a strictly limited form, with ourselves holding a negative or transparency, and each and EVERY,single publication or printing or re-printing involving "us", the image creator. That model is dead,dead,dead. it's no longer worth the mental energy to fuss over a dead, outdated, historical model that actually went out the window back when color laser printers hit the market, then scanners, then the internet, and then in the early 2000's, digital cameras, and then in the 2007-2015 era, the rise of the smart phone and social media.


completely agree


----------



## mmaria (Jun 30, 2015)

fotomonkey said:


> I found one of my images being used as a CD cover. It was blown up from a 640*480 web image. *Certainly not something I wanted people to see as a sample of my work. *
> 
> I've had good luck with cease and desist letters.


I think that's my biggest issue


----------



## mmaria (Jun 30, 2015)

snerd said:


> LOL @ Maria............... you would be surprised at how much we "rednecks" are digitized in today's world. Hell, we have smart phones, digital cameras, social accounts on FB, Instagram, Twitter, Pinterest, Flickr, SmugMug, YouTube, Vimeo and countless other online sites. Addressing your concerns, however, I watched an interview with Gene Simmons (KISS fame) about how there will never really be another group or individual that makes it big, because society now feels "entitled" to everything on the web. For free. It's out there, so it must be for my use. It's a pretty messed up situation what with artist's copyrights and fair use and ownership and just everything related to trying to use the Internet to further your profession or area of endeavor. I'm so glad I don't do this professionally. I just share my stuff with my family. You know, captive audience and all.


hey I would never call you a redneck 

Really, he's someone who's not IT knowlegable and as I said, I didn't know he had a smartphone let alone that he knows about apps.

and I said I decided to be on social networks, I knew what might happen, but it happened too quickly


----------



## Jasii (Jun 30, 2015)

I went looking for those 'boudoir shots' and ended up liking your FB page. 

Jasii


----------



## mmaria (Jun 30, 2015)

Buckster said:


> While it's true that we can't strictly "control" everything that happens with our images once they're out there for people to see (which, after all, IS the point of making them), it's no reason for us to throw up our hands and feel helpless, nor to withhold our photos so that they can't be seen by anyone else.  There ARE other ways to deal with it.
> 
> For me, what works well is to be sure to:
> 
> ...


I do understand what you're doing and I wish I could do that


----------



## mmaria (Jun 30, 2015)

rexbobcat said:


> Sounds like somebody needs a beatdown.
> 
> View attachment 104296
> 
> In all seriousness, I'd probably begin putting stipulations on what the client can and can't do with the photos. "*Feel free to share on social media but don't add your undoubtedly awful edits.*" Maybe word it a bit differently but that sort of thing lol.


I explained really nicely to her what she can and can't do.

... and I think I'll use your exact words. I really like how they sound..


----------



## mmaria (Jun 30, 2015)

Jasii said:


> I went looking for those 'boudoir shots' and ended up liking your FB page.
> 
> Jasii


are you sure you hit the like button? I didn't get the notification..

in other words, go hit the like button! and thank you, I'm glad you like it... you like it, right?


----------



## Jasii (Jun 30, 2015)

mmaria said:


> Jasii said:
> 
> 
> > I went looking for those 'boudoir shots' and ended up liking your FB page.
> ...


Done! Am I entitled for a reward?


----------



## mmaria (Jun 30, 2015)

Jasii said:


> mmaria said:
> 
> 
> > Jasii said:
> ...


you'll get a 

thank you!


----------

