# Strange spots white on my scanned negatives



## thomasbruce (Feb 15, 2015)

Hi

I have a question regarding some strange white spots one my scanned negatives (i assume they are black on the actual negtives. I don't have a loupe so I can't really see them before I scan).

It only happens to some rolls and it has only happened to my 100 iso films like Delta 100 and FP4 plus, not my Delta 400 and HP5+ films. It started about a year ago. After several rolls that were just fine after development of Delta 100 some rolls started having these white spots and when trying to adjust the negatives in lightroom the looked awful and just changing slightly on some of the sliders in lightroom they started to break up/apart.

I could not figure out what I was doing wrong. I tried searching online but could not find any good answers. I tried with new chemicals and longer fixing and washing times but nothing helped. I then changed to FP4 plus and the problem was gone until a couple of months ago. Then the same thing happened to the FP4 plus rolls aswell, but not to the 400 iso films (delta and hp5+). 

I tried refixing and washing but that didn't work. Same with new and old chemicals.



How I develop my negatives:

(I use the massivedev chart app)

1.Presoak - 1min

2.Develop HC110 - 1+32

3. Ilford/Kodak rapid fixer - 7min

4. Washing - 10-15min



Here is a 100% crop - left side more contrast added:











Hope someone can help me figure out how to fix this from happening again and if there is a way to save the negatives I've already developed.

Thanks for your help!

Thomas


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## timor (Feb 15, 2015)

Nothing wrong with your process.
Now, take a look at your negatives, this spots are actually part of the image or foreign elements embedded in emulsion ?
It is just massive.


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## dxqcanada (Feb 15, 2015)

How are you agitating from start to end ?


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## thomasbruce (Feb 15, 2015)

There were no spots like that in the sky when I shot the image and as I stated above it has happened to several rolls over the last year.

I'm agitating for the first minute rotating and swirling. Then once for ten seconds every minute. I also tap the tank a couple of times to dislodge any bubbles.


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## Designer (Feb 15, 2015)

I'm wondering if it could be an artifact of scanning.  High noise to signal ratio.  

I got a few white spots in a black area that simply were not in the print, but they came out in two different scans.


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## smithdan (Feb 15, 2015)

Looks like you have worked through your processing variables.
I'm with Designer - might be a scanner issue.  If you can, rescan the spotted ones in another scanner and see.
also, spots look larger than grain so should show up visually with a magnifying glass.


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## 480sparky (Feb 15, 2015)

How clean is your scanner?


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## photoguy99 (Feb 15, 2015)

Without having some notion of scale we can't tell much. That could just be film grain.


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## timor (Feb 15, 2015)

Your process is fine, agitation will have no influence on anything like that. How long do you develop. In average ? I just wonder, if it is not an effect from physical part of development. But then I never seen that before. Do you have your film from the same source ?


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## thomasbruce (Feb 15, 2015)

smithdan said:


> Looks like you have worked through your processing variables.
> I'm with Designer - might be a scanner issue. If you can, rescan the spotted ones in another scanner and see.
> also, spots look larger than grain so should show up visually with a magnifying glass.



I will try to find another scanner to test, but it's strange that it only affect some of my rolls of negatives. My scanner is pretty clean. bought it under a year ago, an Epson V600. I use an air blower, lens brush and micro fiber cloth to keep everything clean.



photoguy99 said:


> Without having some notion of scale we can't tell much. That could just be film grain.



The picture I posted was from a 100% crop and you can see the grain and it's much smaller than the white spots.



timor said:


> Your process is fine, agitation will have no influence on anything like that. How long do you develop. In average ? I just wonder, if it is not an effect from physical part of development. But then I never seen that before. Do you have your film from the same source ?



No, my film is from different sources bought online. Film is very expensive where I live here in Norway


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## 480sparky (Feb 15, 2015)

thomasbruce said:


> The picture I posted was from a 100% crop and you can see the grain and it's much smaller than the white spots.




100% crop of _what_, though?  A 100% crop from 35mm isn't at the same scale as a 100% crop of 6x45, or 6x7, or 4x5......


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## thomasbruce (Feb 15, 2015)

480sparky said:


> 100% crop of _what_, though? A 100% crop from 35mm isn't at the same scale as a 100% crop of 6x45, or 6x7, or 4x5......



Sorry. From medium format 6x6. It has happened to my 6x12 aswell and looks the same.


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## 480sparky (Feb 15, 2015)

thomasbruce said:


> 480sparky said:
> 
> 
> > 100% crop of _what_, though? A 100% crop from 35mm isn't at the same scale as a 100% crop of 6x45, or 6x7, or 4x5......
> ...



I guess another factor is what resolution you're scanning at.  2400, 4800, 7200, 9600?


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## Dave442 (Feb 15, 2015)

As it is on some films and not others it does not sound like a dirty camera problem. Might try using distilled water for one batch just to see if it is a water problem. I think it would be good to look directly at the negatives with a loupe just to be sure the problem is there and not the scanner.


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## tsspro (Feb 16, 2015)

These spots have always been present in my scans from any flatbed  or Nikon film scanner I've used. I've always assumed they were a result of dirty film/scanner and have spent MANY hours eliminating them from my scans.  What gets me, though is that I can print a hell-of-a dirty neg optically and not have any issues, oh well.  My advice is to find a method in you post processing that works for you to remove them efficiently and effectively.


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## gsgary (Feb 16, 2015)

Try using Ilfosol3 for your FP4 and DDX for HP5


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## limr (Feb 16, 2015)

timor said:


> Your process is fine, agitation will have no influence on anything like that. How long do you develop. In average ? I just wonder, if it is not an effect from physical part of development. But then I never seen that before. *Do you have your film from the same source ?*



That was my first thought as well. But Ilford films should be okay. I've had issues with rebranded film, but this isn't rebranded. Only if perhaps you bought these from a 3rd party that didn't store them well. 

If you are only seeing this on certain films, then perhaps it's something to do with a softer emulsion perhaps? Do you use distilled water?

If it were a dirty scanner, you'd think that they would show up on all the scans, not just the lower speed film scans.

Could it be a camera issue? Instead of looking at what kind of film, check what kind of images you are seeing these spots in. Is it only in pictures where you have a lot of sky? I ask because I have seen some similar spotting in a roll I took with a new-to-me camera - turns out it has pinholes in the shutter curtain.


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## thomasbruce (Feb 16, 2015)

I usually scan at 3200. I will buy a loupe and have a closer look.



tsspro said:


> These spots have always been present in my scans from any flatbed or Nikon film scanner I've used. I've always assumed they were a result of dirty film/scanner and have spent MANY hours eliminating them from my scans. What gets me, though is that I can print a hell-of-a dirty neg optically and not have any issues, oh well. My advice is to find a method in you post processing that works for you to remove them efficiently and effectively.



The spots on the negative is not dust. They are very clean and you can clearly see the differnce when dust appears in the scan.


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## thomasbruce (Feb 16, 2015)

limr said:


> Could it be a camera issue? Instead of looking at what kind of film, check what kind of images you are seeing these spots in. Is it only in pictures where you have a lot of sky? I ask because I have seen some similar spotting in a roll I took with a new-to-me camera - turns out it has pinholes in the shutter curtain.



Thanks for the suggestion, but most of my cameras have a leaf shutter  they are easier to see in the darker parts of the image in the lighter parts they blend more in. But if I du any kinds of adjustments in lightroom the get very visible, fast. It also seem like the image cant handle beeing adjusted in lightroom more than very very smal amounts before braking up and just giving me a dirty  looking image with more solid grays than tonal grays.....(my english vocabulary is lacking some words to better describe what I mean here)..


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## tsspro (Feb 16, 2015)

Could they be parts of the emulsion crystals that reflect the scanner's light source back to the scanner's eye? A glare of sorts, only very very very tiny.


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## limr (Feb 16, 2015)

Hrm...you've presented us with a pickle! Definitely get a loupe and take a close look at those negatives.

I seriously doubt it's the scan - I can't imagine what would create those spots on one film and not another unless you are doing something very different with the scanner settings for those films.

It could be something to do with the reaction of the developer or fixer + your water chemistry + the slower films. I forgot, did you say whether or not you used distilled water? 

Otherwise, it perhaps could simply be a bad batch of film.


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## thomasbruce (Feb 17, 2015)

I'm not using sistilled water. Could it be moisture? My film should be dry. It's in a air tight (supposedly) box in my fridge with silica gels. My fridge has a bit of moisture and a fan that is probably not helping keeping things dry...


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## lisabethrae (Feb 17, 2015)

Wow


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## timor (Feb 17, 2015)

Another option might be fault of antyhalation layer if that is 120 film.


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