# is it worth Changing my camera?



## enerlevel

hi all, 
    due to finance problem, i had to downgrade my camera equipments... I was using 
sony a7s, 35mm f2.8,Nissin i40

after selling my gears, i bought a Sony a6000 and sigma 30mm f1.4 lens. The combo is nice but just lately fujifilm has caught my eye. i can afford to swap my camera for a X-T1 with 23mm f1.4 lens or i could get a X-T20 with 18mm f2. Having said that, is it worth it? would i be gaining any image quality or High iso performance?


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## cherylynne1

As far as I know, no one has gotten a copy of the xt20 yet for sample photos, so there's no way to know what the image quality will be like. I imagine it will be better, but there's no way to know how much better. 

The x-t1 is pretty similar to the a6000 in image quality, and is doubtful to be worth the money you'd lose in switching systems. So unless you really want the Fuji controls, I'd wait to see the hands-on reviews before selling your current gear.


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## enerlevel

Thanks for the reply, 
I honk the senor on the x-t20 is the same as the x-pro2 and x-t2... I hve tried to read many reviews but I can't seem to get a one sided opinion... some says it's really good while others says that it's only marginally better than x trans II... having said that I also have an option of getting sony a6300 without having to change my lens... but like the xtrans III sensor, some say a6300 is significantly better than the a6000 in terms of high ISO while some say its the same ...


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## Ysarex

enerlevel said:


> Thanks for the reply,
> I honk the senor on the x-t20 is the same as the x-pro2 and x-t2... I hve tried to read many reviews but I can't seem to get a one sided opinion... some says it's really good while others says that it's only marginally better than x trans II... having said that I also have an option of getting sony a6300 without having to change my lens... but like the xtrans III sensor, some say a6300 is significantly better than the a6000 in terms of high ISO while some say its the same ...



Can't trust what you read on the internet. The Fuji cameras use Sony sensors. The X-Trans III uses Sony's new dual gain APS sensor -- a6500. Low light performance is state-of-the art for APS class cameras. The same sensor is in the new Nikon D500.

The Fuji cameras are complicated by the addition of the X-Trans CFA. You may like it or you may hate it. Fuji designed the X-Trans CFA to resist moire and consequently removed the AA filter from the camera. The X-Trans CFA increases the overall green component of the CFA and that further boosts low light performance. However the X-Trans CFA is far more complicated to demosaic and so more prone to demosaicing problems. As a result there's a wider range of performance variation between the different raw processors and Fuji users find it more difficult to settle happily on a software solution.

I've been using Fuji for a number of years now. Fuji lenses are superb and my original decision to switch to Fuji had a lot to do with the lenses. I'm using the X-T2 now which has the same basic sensor guts as the X-T20. Here's an example of the camera's low light output: ISO 12800.

Joe


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## Gary A.

I am a Fuji fanboy.  The new 24mp sensor delivers significant detail over the 16mp sensor and Fuji managed to get seemingly a full stop of high ISO IQ.  (The 16mp sensor's IQ @ 3200 is about the same at 6400 for the 24mp sensor.)  Fujinon FX lenses are wonderful and the XP1/XP2/XT1/XT2 are extremely well build and their lenses feel solid like the old Nikkor lenses of the film-only days.  Most photogs don't need F/1.4.  Fuji has a lineup of F/2 lenses which are significantly less expensive than their F/1.4. The XP2/XT2 have all the primary controls on the camera body and lens ... so no menu diving or switches to activate.  They are a joy to use and the non-Bayer sensor CFA gives a slightly different look, slightly more film-esque.  But Fuji is a boutique/niche camera and the cost of Fuji hardware reflects this market.

But, for what I shoot and how I shoot, the extra detail (unless you enlarge the image way up there) is insignificant to the overall success of the photo.


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## Gary A.

PS- I wrote my post prior to reading Joe's. I imagine we both wrote at about the same time. lol


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## cherylynne1

enerlevel said:


> Thanks for the reply,
> I honk the senor on the x-t20 is the same as the x-pro2 and x-t2... I hve tried to read many reviews but I can't seem to get a one sided opinion... some says it's really good while others says that it's only marginally better than x trans II... having said that I also have an option of getting sony a6300 without having to change my lens... but like the xtrans III sensor, some say a6300 is significantly better than the a6000 in terms of high ISO while some say its the same ...



You don't have to guess about that, you can just use DPreview's studio comparison tool: Studio shot comparison: Digital Photography Review

Don't forget that Fuji doesn't use the same standard for ISO that other cameras do, so their ISO 200 is what everyone else calls ISO 100. So I usually bump them up by one all the way, though some say that's not quite accurate either... the tests I've seen have shown that Fuji is usually about 2/3 of a stop underexposed when put at the same settings as another camera.


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## cgw

I hesitate to call Fuji deceptive but will kick their courtesans for over-selling the virtues of their latest model iterations. Too soon for definitive reviews but you'd never guess it from the gush over the lineup-wide  24mp sensor+processor "upgrades." Thinking mostly about the X100F whose predecessor, the X100T,seemed near-perfect for use as a candid/street shooter. Faster AF? So what with a fixed lens camera that most current prosumer DSLRs embarrass without trying. Expanded ISO ranges matter only if you use them regularly. Scootable AF points via a teat-like joy stick? Don't need it. Whip in a sizeable price increase relative to the now-discounted(and falling?) X100T and just maybe Fuji has finally stumbled and cranked out an upgrade on a niche product that will prove a dud, sales-wise.

That said, I'd urge the OP to look at the XT-10. Upgrades always exert downward pressure on  current prices. Fujinon lenses are superb, so there's no harm buying into the system now with a 16mp body. Shoot it till it breaks and see what Fuji dishes up 2 years on.


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## Ysarex

cherylynne1 said:


> enerlevel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the reply,
> I honk the senor on the x-t20 is the same as the x-pro2 and x-t2... I hve tried to read many reviews but I can't seem to get a one sided opinion... some says it's really good while others says that it's only marginally better than x trans II... having said that I also have an option of getting sony a6300 without having to change my lens... but like the xtrans III sensor, some say a6300 is significantly better than the a6000 in terms of high ISO while some say its the same ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't have to guess about that, you can just use DPreview's studio comparison tool: Studio shot comparison: Digital Photography Review
Click to expand...


Be careful with DPreview's comparison tool. You're looking at their questionable processing methodology as much as the performance of the various cameras. Download the raw originals and process them yourself if you want a proper comparison.



cherylynne1 said:


> Don't forget that Fuji doesn't use the same standard for ISO that other cameras do, so their ISO 200 is what everyone else calls ISO 100. So I usually bump them up by one all the way, though some say that's not quite accurate either... the tests I've seen have shown that Fuji is usually about 2/3 of a stop underexposed when put at the same settings as another camera.



This is bogus. I've encountered it before and those blogs and reviews are typically written by people who don't know what ISO is and don't understand the standard. Fuji uses the same standard for ISO as the other major manufacturers. I had to walk to the grocery this afternoon so I took my X-T2 along:






Front-lit bright sun, blue sky, winter in the northern hemisphere, 2:00 in the afternoon is a know exposure. I set the camera manually with the ISO at 200 and this the JPEG the Fuji EXR processor delivered. Histogram for the photo is inset lower left.

Joe


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## cherylynne1

Here's the article that illustrates my understanding of the Fuji ISO problem: Does Fuji Cheat with its Sensors?

Even with people arguing with the methods in the comments, they agree that if you have a Fuji camera next to another camera and dial in the exact same settings on both, the Fuji will appear about 2/3 of a stop darker. Most Fuji owners don't care about it, and it really doesn't matter in real world use, but for comparing ISO performance between cameras of different brands it does matter.


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## Ysarex

cherylynne1 said:


> Here's the article that illustrates my understanding of the Fuji ISO problem: Does Fuji Cheat with its Sensors?
> 
> Even with people arguing with the methods in the comments, they agree that if you have a Fuji camera next to another camera and dial in the exact same settings on both, the Fuji will appear about 2/3 of a stop darker. Most Fuji owners don't care about it, and it really doesn't matter in real world use, but for comparing ISO performance between cameras of different brands it does matter.



Yep, bogus article. He doesn't know what ISO is and although he has a link to the standards website I suspect he hasn't read it. This sentence from the article is a give-away and should have warned you he was BSing through his hat; "So far, I have been comparing sensors based on the same ISO level, but making exposure adjustments to match the same brightness across different cameras."

The site is extensive and he's written a lot. Here's another link from that site that verifies he's pretty clueless when it comes to ISO: Understanding ISO - A Beginner's Guide Here's a nonsense quote from that article, "The component within your camera that can change sensitivity is called “image sensor” or simply “sensor”."

You got to be careful what you read on the internet. Next thing you know you could start thinking in terms of exposure triangles -- I think he's got that in there too.

Joe


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## enerlevel

Thanks all for your time.
So after read some comments, is it true that the a6300 sensor would be the same as x-t2 or x-t20 sensor? 
Personally I don't like the xtrans II, I had the x-t1 2 years ago and as I often shoot high ISO, raw files just go up till 6400 at auto ISO and the jpeg, the skin tones become too waxy.. 
therefore If I am to invest another £800 to my current setup, I would want it to be worthy..


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## Ysarex

enerlevel said:


> Thanks all for your time.
> So after read some comments, is it true that the a6300 sensor would be the same as x-t2 or x-t20 sensor?
> Personally I don't like the xtrans II, I had the x-t1 2 years ago and as I often shoot high ISO, raw files just go up till 6400 at auto ISO and the jpeg, the skin tones become too waxy..
> therefore If I am to invest another £800 to my current setup, I would want it to be worthy..



The a6500 has the same sensor as the X-T2/T20. You'll have the same waxy skin tone problems with the X-Trans III that you had with the X-Trans II. Fuji's EXR processing engine is responsible for that and Fuji hasn't changed their position on that with the new cameras.

Joe


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## Gary A.

XT1: ISO 6400





XT1: ISO 6400





X-T1: ISO 3200





XP1: ISO 3200


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## iaeaix

The Fuji 23mm/1.4 is a nice lens, it is better than the Sigma 30/1.4 and Fuji 28/2.  
I think it is worth to go with this lens. Body wise, XT1 or others does not really make huge difference.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jcdeboever

Ysarex said:


> cherylynne1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the article that illustrates my understanding of the Fuji ISO problem: Does Fuji Cheat with its Sensors?
> 
> Even with people arguing with the methods in the comments, they agree that if you have a Fuji camera next to another camera and dial in the exact same settings on both, the Fuji will appear about 2/3 of a stop darker. Most Fuji owners don't care about it, and it really doesn't matter in real world use, but for comparing ISO performance between cameras of different brands it does matter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, bogus article. He doesn't know what ISO is and although he has a link to the standards website I suspect he hasn't read it. This sentence from the article is a give-away and should have warned you he was BSing through his hat; "So far, I have been comparing sensors based on the same ISO level, but making exposure adjustments to match the same brightness across different cameras."
> 
> The site is extensive and he's written a lot. Here's another link from that site that verifies he's pretty clueless when it comes to ISO: Understanding ISO - A Beginner's Guide Here's a nonsense quote from that article, "The component within your camera that can change sensitivity is called “image sensor” or simply “sensor”."
> 
> You got to be careful what you read on the internet. Next thing you know you could start thinking in terms of exposure triangles -- I think he's got that in there too.
> 
> Joe
Click to expand...


I'm obsessed with exposure triangles, I named my goldfish EC


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## Ysarex

jcdeboever said:


> Ysarex said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cherylynne1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the article that illustrates my understanding of the Fuji ISO problem: Does Fuji Cheat with its Sensors?
> 
> Even with people arguing with the methods in the comments, they agree that if you have a Fuji camera next to another camera and dial in the exact same settings on both, the Fuji will appear about 2/3 of a stop darker. Most Fuji owners don't care about it, and it really doesn't matter in real world use, but for comparing ISO performance between cameras of different brands it does matter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, bogus article. He doesn't know what ISO is and although he has a link to the standards website I suspect he hasn't read it. This sentence from the article is a give-away and should have warned you he was BSing through his hat; "So far, I have been comparing sensors based on the same ISO level, but making exposure adjustments to match the same brightness across different cameras."
> 
> The site is extensive and he's written a lot. Here's another link from that site that verifies he's pretty clueless when it comes to ISO: Understanding ISO - A Beginner's Guide Here's a nonsense quote from that article, "The component within your camera that can change sensitivity is called “image sensor” or simply “sensor”."
> 
> You got to be careful what you read on the internet. Next thing you know you could start thinking in terms of exposure triangles -- I think he's got that in there too.
> 
> Joe
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm obsessed with exposure triangles, I named my goldfish EC
Click to expand...


EC -- that would be exposure compensation -- no need to bring triangles into it.

Joe


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## enerlevel

thanks everyone for their input. 
i sold all the sony gears and got the fuji film x-t1.  2 days and i am again selling all the fuji gears and going back to Sony a6000. 
things that don't suit my style of shooting ... 
1) auto iso just till 6400... i trend to shoot a lot of high iso and this is something which i really missed.
2) autofocus and viewfinder is slow.. i tried to take some pics of a volleyball match.. and i just couldn't get the focus right.


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## Derrel

enerlevel said:


> thanks everyone for their input.
> i sold all the sony gears and got the fuji film x-t1.  2 days and i am again selling all the fuji gears and going back to Sony a6000.
> things that don't suit my style of shooting ...
> 1) auto iso just till 6400... i trend to shoot a lot of high iso and this is something which i really missed.
> 2) autofocus and viewfinder is slow.. i tried to take some pics of a volleyball match.. and i just couldn't get the focus right.



So...you sold all your Sony gear, then bought a Fuji setup and shot that *for two days,* and now plan to sell the Fuji setup, and go BACK to Sony?


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## pixmedic

Derrel said:


> enerlevel said:
> 
> 
> 
> thanks everyone for their input.
> i sold all the sony gears and got the fuji film x-t1.  2 days and i am again selling all the fuji gears and going back to Sony a6000.
> things that don't suit my style of shooting ...
> 1) auto iso just till 6400... i trend to shoot a lot of high iso and this is something which i really missed.
> 2) autofocus and viewfinder is slow.. i tried to take some pics of a volleyball match.. and i just couldn't get the focus right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So...you sold all your Sony gear, then bought a Fuji setup and shot that *for two days,* and now plan to sell the Fuji setup, and go BACK to Sony?
Click to expand...


if thats the case i would just go to nikon or canon.


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## dasmith232

enerlevel said:


> ... due to finance problem, i had to downgrade my camera equipments... I was using sony a7s, 35mm f2.8, Nissin i40 ... after selling my gears, i bought a Sony a6000 and sigma 30mm f1.4 lens. The combo is nice but just lately fujifilm has caught my eye.


This started with a finance problem. Chasing gear is generally not a good way to fix finance problems. There are a few different rules-of-thumb that go along the lines of "90% of cameras will satisfy 90% of photographer needs." I'd really implore you consider what your current camera *can* do instead of what it *can't* do. Anything beyond that just generates a loud sucking sound (which is your money)...?



Derrel said:


> ...So...you sold all your Sony gear, then bought a Fuji setup and shot that *for two days,* and now plan to sell the Fuji setup, and go BACK to Sony?


That's kind of what I was thinking. It's your money, but buying camera gear is generally not a healthy option. We're really wanting things to come out right for you.


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## enerlevel

Yes I sold al the Fuji gear as it was not the tool for me. I originally had the a7s along with 35mm f2.8 and due to financial problems had to downgrade to a6000. But then I thought fujifilm would actually be a better option for me. After investing in the Fuji system and doing some photos over the weekend,  the auto ISO limit of 6400 and slow auto focusing made me sell it and go back to a6000.


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## Solarflare

Ysarex said:


> Can't trust what you read on the internet. [...] The same sensor is in the new Nikon D500.


 ...

Oh the irony.

Indeed.

No other camera has the same sensor as the D500. The D500 has 20 Megapixel. Do you know any other current camera that has an APS-C sensor with 20 Megapixel ? I dont.

Certainly not Sony cameras (the APS-C all have 24 Megapixels) and certainly not Fuji X (the old ones have 16 Megapixel, the new ones 24 Megapixel).


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## Ysarex

Solarflare said:


> Ysarex said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can't trust what you read on the internet. [...] The same sensor is in the new Nikon D500.
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> Oh the irony.
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> No other camera has the same sensor as the D500. The D500 has 20 Megapixel. Do you know any other current camera that has an APS-C sensor with 20 Megapixel ? I dont.
> 
> Certainly not Sony cameras (the APS-C all have 24 Megapixels) and certainly not Fuji X (the old ones have 16 Megapixel, the new ones 24 Megapixel).
Click to expand...


The current Sony APS cameras are 24 megapixels -- last generation are 20.

My bad the D500 is not the exact same sensor -- I had recently read this: D500 Dynamic Range | DSLRBodies | Thom Hogan

Looking like the D500 is the same basic Sony tech.

Joe


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## SnappingShark

Disappointing thread, but I am glad the OP recovered and din't lose too much in the financial turmoil of changing systems. I for one know what that's like after doing it a bunch of times. You know, sometimes it's a learning process and I've discovered that.

Also, if possible, go and try the equipment out rather than buying it and then having to sell it on the craigslist or the ebay when you realize it wasn't for you! I understand some people live more remote so that isn't possible!


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## enerlevel

SnappingShark said:


> Disappointing thread, but I am glad the OP recovered and din't lose too much in the financial turmoil of changing systems. I for one know what that's like after doing it a bunch of times. You know, sometimes it's a learning process and I've discovered that.
> 
> Also, if possible, go and try the equipment out rather than buying it and then having to sell it on the craigslist or the ebay when you realize it wasn't for you! I understand some people live more remote so that isn't possible!




Yes I lost some but at least I experienced both the systems... I used to try cameras out in stores but then it was no way near to how I would shoot.. for example most stores are well lit and the only way to try high ISO is to increase shutter or aperture ... however the performance and noise I get from a very dim lit place is completely different and that I can't test in stores..


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## beagle100

enerlevel said:


> SnappingShark said:
> 
> 
> 
> Disappointing thread, but I am glad the OP recovered and din't lose too much in the financial turmoil of changing systems. I for one know what that's like after doing it a bunch of times. You know, sometimes it's a learning process and I've discovered that.
> 
> Also, if possible, go and try the equipment out rather than buying it and then having to sell it on the craigslist or the ebay when you realize it wasn't for you! I understand some people live more remote so that isn't possible!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I lost some but at least I experienced both the systems... I used to try cameras out in stores but then it was no way near to how I would shoot.. for example most stores are well lit and the only way to try high ISO is to increase shutter or aperture ... however the performance and noise I get from a very dim lit place is completely different and that I can't test in stores..
Click to expand...


true, stores like BB have good lighting and may not be a good example of high ISO in low light situations
*www.flickr.com/photos/mmirrorless*


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