# The boys with Lucha masks



## Iron Flatline (Dec 15, 2009)

I needed to test out some light gear. It was a rainy Sunday, and I bribed my two oldest into posing by allowing some TV:


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## Vicelord John (Dec 21, 2009)

This is borderline child pornography. Why are they hugging and one touching the others junk?


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## The_Traveler (Dec 21, 2009)

Vicelord John said:


> This is borderline child pornography. Why are they hugging and one touching the others junk?



I hope this is said in jest.
Otherwise the poster has a truly pathetic view of life.

In regards the pictures, I think that the lighting on the masks needs to be a little stronger to accentuate them. As it is the brightest area is the upper torsos - otherwise technically these are quite superior.


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## Iron Flatline (Dec 21, 2009)

Welcome to the Forum, Vicelord. These are two of my sons, they're brothers, they're wrestling all day long. We live in Europe, where people don't compete to be the first to push morality on each other. You may see child porn, I see my boys having fun. Please go find a self-righteous soapbox somewhere else. Also, as a newbie I suggest you evaluate the seniority and standing of some members. If I've been a member here for four years and 3000+ posts, chances are that I am not a child pornographer, or that this is a community that is beyond your policing.


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## Vicelord John (Dec 21, 2009)

I don't care how long you've been here, that doesn't change my opinion of your pictures. 

I've been on forums since I can remember and I've never judged someone by their post count. That's just childish.

BTW, the pictures have great quality. I just think two shirtless boys pushing up against each other and putting their hands below the belt is a little odd.


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## The_Traveler (Dec 21, 2009)

Vicelord John said:


> I don't care how long you've been here, that doesn't change my opinion of your pictures.
> 
> I just think two shirtless boys pushing up against each other and putting their hands below the belt is a little odd.



Iron Flatline doesn't need any help from anyone but my opinion is that anyone who sees pornography in two happy little boys is more than a little odd - and needs some counselling. 

Lew


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## Cheesyman (Dec 21, 2009)

you have some nice photos here, certainly captured the two boys having fun. Also i like your lighting, good work


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## Inst!nct (Dec 21, 2009)

Vicelord John said:


> I don't care how long you've been here, that doesn't change my opinion of your pictures.
> 
> I've been on forums since I can remember and I've never judged someone by their post count. That's just childish.
> 
> BTW, the pictures have great quality. I just think two shirtless boys pushing up against each other and putting their hands below the belt is a little odd.


i agree with vicelord, considering i grew up in europe, where, "touching" is ok, this is beginning to be a bit borderline, it is a sketchy. I understand that this might be ok in some cultures, but even from my perspective, the hands get a bit low on each other, and  i just dont see this as wrestling as much as touching each other akwardly with masks on.

especially number 2, where his hands, and number 3, where his pants are very low..


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## c.cloudwalker (Dec 21, 2009)

The_Traveler said:


> Vicelord John said:
> 
> 
> > I don't care how long you've been here, that doesn't change my opinion of your pictures.
> ...



:thumbup:  +1

Definitely more worried about where your mind is at Vice Lord than Iron Flatline's or his kids'.


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## Inst!nct (Dec 21, 2009)

it's not where my/ or vicelords mind is at, i didnt come in this thread thinking about child pornography, but i got a weird vibe from the pictures themselves..\

and we are allowed to have our own opinions, i admit it is weird that that is what we interpreted it as, but just my view of these photos.


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## wiredhernandez (Dec 21, 2009)

Iron, I noted the post much earlier today and I think the first comments are a bit extreme. The shots are fine but look more posed rather than playful. I would say that with the exact same dress and pose with older kids it might just appear "gay" (maybe the low hip jeans contribute?). That was honestly my first thought upon viewing the images. Great idea for shots though!


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## Inst!nct (Dec 21, 2009)

wiredhernandez said:


> Iron, I noted the post much earlier today and I think the first comments are a bit extreme. The shots are fine but look more posed rather than playful. I would say that with the exact same dress and pose with older kids it might just appear "gay" (maybe the low hip jeans contribute?). That was honestly my first thought upon viewing the images. Great idea for shots though!


right, this is what i was getting at, not necessarily child porn but yea this.


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## PhotoXopher (Dec 21, 2009)

I get the same weird vibe from these photos to be honest... I have pretty thick skin but those made me uncomfortable.

I have kids too... but these are posed shots, not action shots and it looks too intentional. I think if you had those developed in the US there's a good chance you'd be investigated.


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## Inst!nct (Dec 21, 2009)

yea i asked some other people and them too thought it was sketchy..


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## AnotherNewGuy (Dec 21, 2009)

The second picture does create a weird vibe.  Without it, the thought would never cross my mind with the other two pictures.  I think the quality is amazing.  I am not European, so I guess I can't observe from that liberal point of view.


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## Vicelord John (Dec 21, 2009)

The overwhelming messGe im getting out of this thread is that if you are from europe, its ok to make your kids touch.


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## Inst!nct (Dec 21, 2009)

Vicelord John said:


> The overwhelming messGe im getting out of this thread is that if you are from europe, its ok to make your kids touch.


no, he was saying that its normal for people to touch each other more, like guys to hold hands without being gay and more hugs and kisses type of ****, but i dont think OP realizes what his pictures come off as..


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## c.cloudwalker (Dec 21, 2009)

Well, I'm American and I have no problem with those photos. Would it be because I travel quite a bit and realize that the US is not the world?

French men of the same family kiss when they see each other; Russians do it too, on the mouth. Men hold hands in a lot of arab countries. Should photos of those acts not be posted because some uptight Americans don't know there is a whole other world beyond our borders? Or because they don't even realize this is an international site?

If you can't deal with the world, please stay inside, lock your doors and don't look out the windows.


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## Iron Flatline (Dec 21, 2009)

My US wife thinks they're ok, we're using them as part of our holiday website.

Here, maybe you think she is too pornographic, too:


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## PhotoXopher (Dec 21, 2009)

Likewise; When you post images on an international site, expect international comments.

PS
There's just as much high and mighty attitude about these photos being acceptable as there is about them being a bit over the edge. I call it as I see it, and this set of photos caused me some concern. It wasn't one oops, it was a few various poses... all of which are subjective. Remove the second one and it may tell a bit different story... that's the nail in the coffin for me.

As far as your wife goes... totally different photo, I like this one. But put her in the same age group with her hand on another girls breast or crotch and yes, I'd think the same thing as I would is she was the age she is now.


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## The_Traveler (Dec 21, 2009)

There is an old joke about a man taking a Rorschach and seeing people having sex in various positions in every one of the abstract displays.   At the end, when the therapist talks to him about his seeming preoccupation with sex, he said," Me, You're the one showing me all those dirty pictures."


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## Stamp (Dec 22, 2009)

c.cloudwalker said:


> Should photos of those acts not be posted because some uptight Americans don't know there is a whole other world beyond our borders?



What a stupid and ignorant comment.  Everyone voices their opinions (which is what this thread is for), and you (as I'm guessing a liberal) bash the ones you don't like and call the posters "uptight Americans", who you don't think are as culturally diverse as you.  Get real.  Because one culture does it, that doesn't make it acceptable in others, but I guess you think I'm too high and mighty and I should be more empathetic and open minded, right?  Try crossing one of your legs in Iraq with the bottom of your shoe pointing towards a traditional Iraqi, or talking directly to/about one of their wives, and see if they are empathetic towards your customs. 



c.cloudwalker said:


> Or because they don't even realize this is an international site?



Now you're getting it!!! :thumbup:  International site, international differences. If photos are posted for INTERNATIONAL viewing for C&C, then roll with the punches and shut your mouth. :mrgreen:


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## Stamp (Dec 22, 2009)

Oh, and to the OP, I found the pictures disturbing as well. Like others had said, they looked too posed and not playful (maybe the masks are hiding the smiles that's doing it).

And BTW, I love the picture of your wife. I think its very tasteful and well composed (and she's pretty hot too.  )


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## The_Traveler (Dec 22, 2009)

c.cloudwalker said:


> Well, I'm American and I have no problem with those photos. Would it be because I travel quite a bit and realize that the US is not the world?
> 
> French men of the same family kiss when they see each other; Russians do it too, on the mouth. Men hold hands in a lot of arab countries. Should photos of those acts not be posted because some uptight Americans don't know there is a whole other world beyond our borders? Or because they don't even realize this is an international site?
> 
> If you can't deal with the world, please stay inside, lock your doors and don't look out the windows.



Totally agree with cloudwalker. 
Note that those who are themselves offended, take as other examples of  the appropriateness of their behavior, attitudes in the least accepting and most repressive of the world's other populations.


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## Stamp (Dec 22, 2009)

The_Traveler said:


> Note that those who are themselves offended, take as other examples of  the appropriateness of their behavior, attitudes in the least accepting and most repressive of the world's other populations.



I don't think anyone found it offending, however, they/I wouldn't find it acceptable to the masses.  Although, it's pretty much impossible to please the masses as a whole, so you're either on one side or the other side... this just so happens to be on the other side for many of us, but if that's the style you're going for, more power to you.

We're just voicing our critique on it. That's what this great site is for... feedback :hug::


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## The_Traveler (Dec 22, 2009)

Vicelord John said:


> The overwhelming messGe im getting out of this thread is that if you are from europe, its ok to make your kids touch.



Oh, yahh.  And this isn't an offensive remark. and from a man who uses ViceLord as his screen name.


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## Inst!nct (Dec 22, 2009)

@ The traveler

 They are in pants, with seemingly no underwear, no shirts, in masks, touching themselves.. honestly, im all for adults taking pictures of their children wrestling/playing together, but these are way out there. I asked someone that has spent 50 years in belgium/europe , and she said also that a weird vibe was coming from these photos. But no, think about a little out of context, you show these photos to the cops, or try and print them somewhere, im sure youll get in a bit of trouble.

btw the traveler, 1 thank and +2000 posts? how does that happen


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## The_Traveler (Dec 22, 2009)

Inst!nct said:


> @ The traveler
> 
> They are in pants, with seemingly no underwear, no shirts, in masks, touching themselves.. honestly, im all for adults taking pictures of their children wrestling/playing together, but these are way out there. I asked someone that has spent 50 years in belgium/europe , and she said also that a weird vibe was coming from these photos. But no, think about a little out of context, you show these photos to the cops, or try and print them somewhere, im sure youll get in a bit of trouble.
> 
> btw the traveler, 1 thank and +2000 posts? how does that happen



You might indeed get in trouble in backwoods Virginia. 

'The 2000 posts and 1 thank you' is clearly an _ad hominem_ attack meant to devalue what I say. 
But I will tell you since you asked.  If you go back over my history, you'll find I left TPF about 18 months ago, frustrated with the poor quality of the c&c's and moderation. This was before this 'thank you' system was enacted. I came back out of curiosity because, out of nowhere, I got an email/pm from an old member. 

This kind of discussion reminds me of why I left.


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## Inst!nct (Dec 22, 2009)

Ahh ok i see, and maybe it could be due to me living in virginia, but im not allowed to voice my opinion without getting bashed for being an "uptight american"

and no, i was not trying to diminish the value of what you were saying, i was sincerely wondering


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## Stamp (Dec 22, 2009)

Getting off topic here, but post count and thank yous, have nothing to do with the value of your advice/critique/suggestions.  It only shows that you have more time to dedicate to interaction on a forum.  I would suggest that the Admins remove the post counts and thank yous from under our names, as everyone is judged too much by them, and not their knowledge and experience.


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## The_Traveler (Dec 22, 2009)

Inst!nct said:


> Ahh ok i see, and maybe it could be due to me living in virginia, but im not allowed to voice my opinion without getting bashed for being an "uptight american"



Thanks, I lived in rural Virginia for several years in an area that had more churches than books in the library and I'm very aware of just how constricted the attitudes and opinions of rural Virginians are. You can express whatever opinion you like; just as others can judge you by what you say.



Inst!nct said:


> and no, i was not trying to diminish the value of what you were saying, i was sincerely wondering



Oh, really.  It didn't come across that way.


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## Inst!nct (Dec 22, 2009)

Stamp said:


> Getting off topic here, but post count and thank yous, have nothing to do with the value of your advice/critique/suggestions.  It only shows that you have more time to dedicate to interaction on a forum.  I would suggest that the Admins remove the post counts and thank yous from under our names, as everyone is judged too much by them, and not their knowledge and experience.


to get even more off topic, you're right and wrong(imo), ive written a pageful of c&c, not gotten anything, yet written short bits and gotten thank yous, however, it persuades people to make more valuable posts


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## TylerF (Dec 27, 2009)

judging people by post count is stupid. what if someone amazing just signed up and had wonderful advice but they got overlooked or disregarded because they haven't posted a lot?

to the OP- when i opened the thread, my immediate thought was "woah, kinda wierd." the photos arents bad by any means. i dont consider myself uptight either. but hey, if you like them, thats all that matters man


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## Iron Flatline (Dec 27, 2009)

OMG, some people have the reading comprehension of my six-year old. I'm sorry I don't have any Richard Scarry characters to illustrate this more clearly: the post-count matters when evaluating the context of the post to the community at large. It is not a quality statement. 

In LA they sell these Lucha masks for kids everywhere. It's sunny, so the kids play outside where they emulate their favorite wrestlers (who wrestle shirtless). Grabbing someone between the legs is not sexual, it's a way to get them off balance. The idea is to grab the upper inner thigh, not each other's "junk" - they're called genitals in English, by the way... you could also use Penis and/or Testicles (in the context of this image... note to self: must add context for these readers!). 

Your mono-culturalism is tiresome.


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## Edger (Dec 27, 2009)

I don't think they look pornagrapic, I'M English if thats important? I find it bit odd he has his hand on the others crouch but maybe these kids haven't got to the stage when they learn touching other people there isnt acceptable

I do think your wife is hot and would pose with her any day!


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## The_Traveler (Dec 27, 2009)

Vicelord John said:


> Edger said:
> 
> 
> > I find it bit odd he has his hand on the others crouch but maybe these kids haven't got to the stage when they learn touching other people there isnt acceptable
> ...



IMO, you should be banned from this site just for this. 

You are a colossal ass-wipe.


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## Rekd (Dec 27, 2009)

Vicelord John said:


> I just think two shirtless boys pushing up against each other and putting their hands below the belt is a little odd.



I got that feeling as well. Not judging, just saying. Made me want to scroll past it as soon as I could so my wife didn't see it. 

I would not put pictures of my two boys doing that on the web. I'd be afraid someone would think, well... just what I thought.


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## Edger (Dec 27, 2009)

Vicelord John said:


> Edger said:
> 
> 
> > I find it bit odd he has his hand on the others crouch but maybe these kids haven't got to the stage when they learn touching other people there isnt acceptable
> ...



O do be serious rubing? Posing yes but rubing no; I am more than sure if that was a video the boy would not continue to rub himself against his brother!

If the dad really was a pedophile or abusing his children do you think he would post it on a website like this? Hey world I'm a pedophile!

If you have reported I hope you considerd the implications of your actions. I don't think geographical location has anything to do with finding them dis tasteful you get idiots every where!


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## Rekd (Dec 27, 2009)

LoL. Yeah! Shame on you! :lmao:


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## CoRNDoG R6 (Dec 27, 2009)

Forums are fun!!!:smileys:


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## Iron Flatline (Dec 28, 2009)

Vicelord started something stupid and he wants to be right at all costs. Whatever. Seriously? Rubbing? 

My boys somehow talked me into getting those stupid Henna tattoos on Venice Beach today (we're in the US for the holidays Vicelord, now is your chance to call the morality cops!) Anyway, it is the first time in my life that I consciously tried to get my 5-year old and 6-year old not to bump into each other for 30 minutes so the ink would set. I NEVER realized how virtually impossible it is to get two kids not to jostle, bump grab or kick each other for 30 minutes. NONE OF IT GAY OR SEXUAL, by the way. But at no time was there rubbing. LOL.

Wotever...

Had several good shoots with models, biggest problem (and I mean BIG) is that I got a very fancy new camera for Hannukah... the 5D mk II... turns out I need CS4 to get the RAW files to show in Bridge. Gah! So I had to upgrade PS, that cost a few hundred bucks... Will post images soon, downloading software as we speak. The upgrade cycle never ends.


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## Amocholes (Dec 28, 2009)

I like them. They show the innocence of youth. Something that will disappear in a few short years. The boys are obviously very comfortable with each other.

The idea that they look posed I think, comes from the lack of a background. If the setting was out in the backyard no one would think twice about it.


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## eleganteye (Dec 28, 2009)

Iron Flatline said:


> Welcome to the Forum, Vicelord. These are two of my sons, they're brothers, they're wrestling all day long. We live in Europe, where people don't compete to be the first to push morality on each other. You may see child porn, I see my boys having fun. Please go find a self-righteous soapbox somewhere else.



Well said.


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