# Need Photo Proof Solution



## pusa15 (May 10, 2016)

Hi, 

I'm an agricultural research scientist working side-by on a very personal and private project and need help being able to prove the authenticity beyond question of Photos that i click.

For now, I want to keep the photos private but in the future when my project is complete, I want to be able to prove the dates of the photos taken. Appreciate your help. 

Thanks 

(my bad if posted under wrong section, kindly move to correct in case)


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## 480sparky (May 10, 2016)

If it's digital, it will be in the EXIF data.


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## pusa15 (May 10, 2016)

480sparky said:


> If it's digital, it will be in the EXIF data.



Thanks for the reply.

Did you mean image properties? Those details can be edited.


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## tirediron (May 10, 2016)

To what degree?  Court of law proof?


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## pusa15 (May 10, 2016)

tirediron said:


> To what degree?  Court of law proof?



Yes sir. Projects are actually approved and authenticated by department heads which is valid for patent related approvals but this project is private.


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## tirediron (May 10, 2016)

pusa15 said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> > To what degree?  Court of law proof?
> ...


Then I would hire a Notary or Commissioner of Oaths and have him/her witness each image you take, print out a "contact sheet" of each set, and have them notarize the sheet as being your own work.


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## pusa15 (May 10, 2016)

tirediron said:


> pusa15 said:
> 
> 
> > tirediron said:
> ...


Ok, I will check into that but I was really hoping there is some solution for my needs in this hugely advanced times of photography. Thanks


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## tirediron (May 10, 2016)

The problem is, digital data can be manipulated; ANY aspect of a digital file can be changed if someone wants to change it badly enough, and if your burden of proof is absolute, then I can't think a better way.  You might get away with an independent witness (friend?), but it all depends.


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## 407370 (May 11, 2016)

Seems like a job for Adobe Acrobat Pro.
Security is very good if it is applied correctly.



 
2 separate passwords are required to edit any of the data (including metadata) so any information you input will be safe and it automatically adds todays date.


 
Of course if the system clock is tampered with then it will not be accurate.
Depends on what level of proof is required.
If the level of proof is high then you have to go with legal people.


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## Designer (May 11, 2016)

You can set your camera's internal clock to any setting that you like.  That ought to convince them.


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## table1349 (May 11, 2016)

This will solve your problem. AUTHENTICATE - Photo Forensics and Image Authentication


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## Ysarex (May 11, 2016)

407370 said:


> Seems like a job for Adobe Acrobat Pro.
> Security is very good if it is applied correctly.
> View attachment 121351
> 2 separate passwords are required to edit any of the data (including metadata) so any information you input will be safe and it automatically adds todays date.
> ...



Encryption and password protection at this level is trivial to brush aside.

How to Break PDF Encryption? [A-PDF.com]
Unlock PDF – Free Online PDF Password Remover
http://lifehacker.com/231955/how-to-crack-password-protected-pdfs

Joe

Tirediron has the only solution.


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## Ysarex (May 11, 2016)

gryphonslair99 said:


> This will solve your problem. AUTHENTICATE - Photo Forensics and Image Authentication



Won't prevent date alteration which is the OP's key issue.

Tirediron has the only solution.

Joe


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## table1349 (May 11, 2016)

Ysarex said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> > This will solve your problem. AUTHENTICATE - Photo Forensics and Image Authentication
> ...


Doesn't have to prevent it.  It authenticates the information or shows that it was changed.


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## Ysarex (May 11, 2016)

gryphonslair99 said:


> Ysarex said:
> 
> 
> > gryphonslair99 said:
> ...



Won't show that a date in meta-data was changed.

Joe


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## table1349 (May 11, 2016)

Yes it will.  That is the purpose of forensic software.


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## Ysarex (May 11, 2016)

gryphonslair99 said:


> Yes it will.  That is the purpose of forensic software.



They can determine a unique signature for the camera and authenticate the camera and they can analyze the image data and provide a degree of assurance that the image data was not altered, but there is no possible way that they can determine that the file wasn't opened or not and that the date stored in metadata was altered. That can be done without leaving any detectable trace -- that's easy to do. All that has to be done is determine from an example file where the date is stored in metadata at the byte level. Then open the file at the byte level and alter it. That can be done without altering any other aspect of the file by so much as a single bit. Any competent programmer can do it.

Joe


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## table1349 (May 11, 2016)

Perhaps you should discuss it with the F.B.I. as they will disagree.  Forensic authentication is not something the average photographer deals with nor do they have the tools to deal with.


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## Ysarex (May 11, 2016)

gryphonslair99 said:


> Perhaps you should discuss it with the F.B.I. as they will disagree.



Nonsense. This is a simple matter.



gryphonslair99 said:


> Forensic authentication is not something the average photographer deals with nor do they have the tools to deal with.



What do average photographers have to do with this? A competent programmer can do what I described easily. I've done the same many times. Software like this could handle the task: http://www.ultraedit.com/assets/images/hex-editor-big.jpg

I looked over the documentation provided by AMPED. They make no claim that they can detect metadata alterations. They'd be laughed at if they did. They can authenticate the camera and detect likely alterations to image data and that's all they can do.

It is simply not possible to determine if a digital file has been byte level edited if the data alteration is consistent with the expected file contents (change a date).

Joe


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## table1349 (May 11, 2016)

Believe what you will.  Makes no never mind to me.


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## Ysarex (May 11, 2016)

gryphonslair99 said:


> Believe what you will.  Makes no never mind to me.



No belief involved here. I've done the same with other types of data files and it's a simple matter that, as I said, a competent programmer can handle.

Joe


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## gsgary (May 11, 2016)

Get a film camera that date stamps the negatives 

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk


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## Designer (May 11, 2016)

gsgary said:


> Get a film camera that date stamps the negatives


Preferably a film camera that costs a lot, such as a Leica, for instance.  Then if anybody challenges your "documentation" simply show him the camera that costs more than he would spend taking his family to Disneyland for a week, and he'll shut up and go away.  

Oh, and be sure to enter the "correct" date and time into the camera's memory.  (wink wink, nudge nudge)


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## gsgary (May 11, 2016)

Designer said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> > Get a film camera that date stamps the negatives
> ...


None of that crap on a Leica M

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## gsgary (May 11, 2016)

You would have to get a Leica C3 (Panasonic )

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## Designer (May 11, 2016)

O.K., I'm not familiar with the various models and prices of THE LEICA so I apologize for misleading the OP.


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