# 7D and Wireless Flash Question



## GeorgieGirl (Feb 1, 2012)

I have the 580EX and I was pretty sure for a long time that I could not use the built in wireless flash settings AND also shut off the pop up on the 7D. Then I read a recent post where it was said how to set it all and then hit the commander button to cancel the pop up flash.

So I try this and find that if the pop up is killed that the wireless is as well. 

So I ask....is there anyway to use off camera flash wirelessly and not have pop-up engaged? Am I doing something wrong?

Do I have to get a Speedlite transmitter?

If so this is the dummest thing on this camera IMHO.


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## Robin Usagani (Feb 1, 2012)

pretty sure you have to have the pop up shoot as well... Just make the power really really low.


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## cgipson1 (Feb 1, 2012)

Not a canon shooter.. so can't help with specifics.

On my Beloved Nikons... You can kill the main flash of the popup (so that it hypothetically doesn't add to the exposure)... but it will still do the pre-flash that it uses to communicate with the other flash. Is this something like that?


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## Hardrock (Feb 1, 2012)

Im almost positive you have to use the popup flash in order to fire other flashes. But I also believe there are a couple of different settings and one of them the popup flash hasw no effect on the exposure or the image. If you still have the owners manual it has all the details in there.  I will check my manual when I get home to verify.


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## o hey tyler (Feb 1, 2012)

You can set it to fire a pre flash, but the flash will not contribute to the exposure. There is a visual representation of this in the external speed light control menu. Just set it so that only the speed light fires.


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## Big Mike (Feb 1, 2012)

There is a setting somewhere in the camera's menu (I think)....'where you can set the flash not to fire'.  In that mode, the flash may still work for triggering the remote flash, but (I'd think) it wouldn't fire for the exposure.   It would look like it's firing, but wouldn't affect the exposure.


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## EIngerson (Feb 1, 2012)

I have the same gear and just went through the same thing. In the menu when you set the camera (Flash control / Built-in flash function. setting / Wireless function)  set it to the speedlight picture (by itself) The flash will fire to trigger the speedlight, but will provide little to no exposure to the subject.

That said, yes, you need the triggers to completely eliminate the pop up.


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## GeorgieGirl (Feb 1, 2012)

Thanks everyone for the replies...Appreciate it!


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## o hey tyler (Feb 1, 2012)

Well, did you figure it out?


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## GeorgieGirl (Feb 1, 2012)

Yes...I've been at it and You-Tubing as well..again. It has to flash somehow so that the speedlite gets the flash...as it is the slave in the set-up, so I follow why it has to work like this. I much prefer the simple functionality of my strobes and their trigger system. This to me is half-assed.


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## o hey tyler (Feb 1, 2012)

GeorgieGirl said:


> Yes...I've been at it and You-Tubing as well..again. It has to flash somehow so that the speedlite gets the flash...as it is the slave in the set-up, so I follow why it has to work like this. I much prefer the simple functionality of my strobes and their trigger system. This to me is half-assed.



Why? It's a simple optical slave setup essentially. 

It's not like your popup has to contribute to exposure.


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## GeorgieGirl (Feb 1, 2012)

Yes and Yes....that is what it is. A triggering flash that does not contribute to exposure. I don't use this flash really ever. I primarly use stobes so this is a bit of a departure, but I am trying to do my February photo and was sidetracked with this flash immersion. I prefer the simplicity of the on board triggering system that I have with the strobes, I do what I want from the top of the camera simply and easily and no fussing with drill down menus. Two different things and a bit of a Learning Curve for me. I should be good to go now that I have dragged myself though this process.


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## o hey tyler (Feb 1, 2012)

You're not really using the flash? You're using it to fire the speedlights off camera. So it DOES NOT contribute to exposure. 

It's not difficult. I feel like you're complaining about nothing. Get over it, Nikon's have the same feature and tons of people use it to great effect. 

I use strobes too, but if using a popup flash on a 7D (if I had one) to trigger the flashes with full E-TTL was my only option, I'd take it.


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## EIngerson (Feb 1, 2012)

Yes it does work, but it doesn't allow you to high speed synch. It's not really that practical.


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## GeorgieGirl (Feb 1, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


> You're not really using the flash? You're using it to fire the speedlights off camera. So it DOES NOT contribute to exposure.
> 
> It's not difficult. I feel like you're complaining about nothing. Get over it, Nikon's have the same feature and tons of people use it to great effect.
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> I use strobes too, but if using a popup flash on a 7D (if I had one) to trigger the flashes with full E-TTL was my only option, I'd take it.



Let's just stick with the operations and you can leave your editorial comments about what you think my line of thinking was or what I need to get over out out of it...I like simple, I think simple is better. So far it seems on this forum this operational system is a mysterious enough system that its not straight forward to just about all.

And if you recall, I did get some info that said the commander button shuts the thing down, that was my expecation... It does not cancel the flash. So trial and error...I put the work in and figured it out over the past 6 hours. Immersion. 

I think I might just get the trigger because the in camera extra steps are not compelling enough to bother with.


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## o hey tyler (Feb 1, 2012)

I think I'll insert my editorial comments where need be. You're the one asking for help, after all. You could have read the manual to find the same information you were asking for. 

You have an essentially *free* wireless flash system. I don't get why that's a burden to you...? Is it a burden because you don't want to learn how to use it? 

Sure you don't get HSS, but if you're in a studio environment, it doesn't really matter. Your lighting is controlled as it is. The popup flash can be set to not contribute to the exposure. 

If you really need HSS and TTL flash, look at the Pixel King TTL triggers. I have them and have used them quite extensively. I could give you a full review. 

I have only shot cameras without a popup flash for the past few years, but I can guarantee you with a little bit of time with a 7D, T3i, or 60D, that I could setup and fire a Canon TTL flash without looking at the manual. It's not tough, and it's not "noobish" to do. 

I suppose if you're not tech savvy enough to understand the wireless flash system, that's one thing. If you prefer DIP switches and manual flash, go to the Cactus Triggers. They don't come with the camera body you purchased though, like the wireless flash system. You can always RTFM, which explains the whole thing.


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## GeorgieGirl (Feb 1, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


> I think I'll insert my editorial comments where need be. You're the one asking for help, after all. You could have read the manual to find the same information you were asking for.
> 
> You have an essentially *free* wireless flash system. I don't get why that's a burden to you...? Is it a burden because you don't want to learn how to use it?
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Dude...I RTFM... its clear as mud....this isn't my first rodeo.


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## o hey tyler (Feb 1, 2012)

Try youtube? You must be one of them old fashioned folks. :lmao:






This should spell it all out in plain English.


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## EIngerson (Feb 1, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


> I think I'll insert my editorial comments where need be. You're the one asking for help, after all. You could have read the manual to find the same information you were asking for.
> 
> You have an essentially *free* wireless flash system. I don't get why that's a burden to you...? Is it a burden because you don't want to learn how to use it?
> 
> ...



Cool story bro.


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## o hey tyler (Feb 1, 2012)

EIngerson said:


> Cool story bro.



Thanks. My post actually had information in it.

I know plenty of people that have used Nikon's CLS and Canon's wireless flash system to great effect. It does work, it's not impractical.


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## EIngerson (Feb 1, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


> EIngerson said:
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> > Cool story bro.
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Anyone else smell vinegar and water in here?


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## o hey tyler (Feb 1, 2012)

EIngerson said:


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Anyone else smell why it's not necessary to eliminate the popup flash? 

Because it's not. It works quite well, and doesn't contribute to the exposure. 

#richwhiteboyproblems


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## o hey tyler (Feb 1, 2012)

GeorgieGirl, if you tell me specifically why you don't want your popup flash to trigger your external speedlights, I may be able to point you in the right direction of flash triggers for your needs. Otherwise, I just can't see the issue, other than the fact that you don't like the popup flash that doesn't contribute to the exposure... Which to me, personally, would not be reason enough to buy TTL triggers. 

I'm really trying to understand, and as a 5D/5DMK2 user with no popup flash or wireless flash system other than the high priced TTL triggers I own, why you would not want to use the system built into your camera. 

That's all. Maybe that's where the animosity came from. Because the popup flash (to me) would be insignificant (especially if it didn't contribute to the frame exposure).


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## EIngerson (Feb 1, 2012)

Tyler, The only thing you've stated is that you personally don't see the reason to eliminate the pop up flash and that third parties have told you about their experience with the 7D wireless operation. So, no you didn't provide information, you provided heresy in a condescending tone.

No high speed synch, the annoyance of adjusting each piece of lighting at the stand, vice doing it right there at the camera and the occasional "red eye" due to the pop up flash being straight on with the subject get's annoying. It also just so happens to make the whole process impractical. I use the 7D and and can speak from my own experience about it's performance.


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## o hey tyler (Feb 1, 2012)

EIngerson said:


> Tyler, The only thing you've stated is that you personally don't see the reason to eliminate the pop up flash and that third parties have told you about their experience with the 7D wireless operation. So, no you didn't provide information, you provided heresy in a condescending tone.
> 
> No high speed synch, the annoyance of adjusting each piece of lighting at the stand, vice doing it right there at the camera and the occasional "red eye" due to the pop up flash being straight on with the subject get's annoying. It also just so happens to make the whole process impractical. I use the 7D and and can speak from my own experience about it's performance.



Uh, I'm pretty sure I am watching a video where you can control the flash exposure compensation in TTL mode on the camera itself. You do not need to go to the light stand to set flash compensation. You can set grouping, and FEC. 

If you're getting red-eye in your photos, have your subject close their eyes before the exposure, and tell them to open them on the count of 3. 

I just find it funny that people are whining and complaining about a built in feature of the camera that numerous people have been using to great effect. Just because one doesn't understand it doesn't render it impractical. It's very possible that you just don't understand enough about TTL flash and light placement. And that's perfectly okay. Digital photography is a great medium to make mistakes and learn in.

If Georgiegirl really can't get over the fact that her flashes work as optical slaves, then she should get PocketWizards or Pixel King TTL transmitters. There's no other way to get TTL flash, grouping, and FEC on the camera. 

Otherwise you're going to be adjusting lights "at the stand" as you said, EINGERSON.

If you don't like my tone, try out the ignore feature.


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## EIngerson (Feb 1, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


> EIngerson said:
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> > Tyler, The only thing you've stated is that you personally don't see the reason to eliminate the pop up flash and that third parties have told you about their experience with the 7D wireless operation. So, no you didn't provide information, you provided heresy in a condescending tone.
> ...



No need to ignore, unless you're going to keep yelling my name. I think you referenced in another thread where the capslock button is. The shift button is right below it, take your finger off it.

Thanks for the tip on the red eye, I'll give it a shot.  How, again, is it whining to have a personal preference not to like the pop up flash triggering other lighting?


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## o hey tyler (Feb 1, 2012)

EIngerson said:


> How, again, is it whining to have a personal preference not to like the pop up flash triggering other lighting?



Usually personal preference comes with reason, reason comes with logic. 

Logically, what is wrong with the popup flash firing if it's not contributing to the exposure? That's all I am asking.


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## EIngerson (Feb 1, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


> EIngerson said:
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As true as that is, it's irrelevant because I don't own the triggers and receivers to compare for myself. That's the knowledge I lack. So, until I have that experience, the pop up flash will bother me. That, and the fact that it doesn't high speed synch. That sucks shooting motocross in southern California.


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## o hey tyler (Feb 1, 2012)

EIngerson said:


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It's not irrelevant, because most sports shooters wouldn't invest in ETTL/HSS triggers to shoot sports; while it very well may have its applications... I'm not denying that. It's just not usually convenient or safe to have speedlights setup off camera at sporting events unless you have an assistant to watch them. Expect to shell out $150+ if HSS is what you desire in a trigger setup. It's a tall order to shoot action sports with Nikon's CLS or Canon's wireless flash system, that's a given. That doesn't mean that it's useless. It's useless for YOUR needs, yes. That's for certain. It's not just a marketing ploy however, there is practicality behind it, whether you use it for such or not.

As I've stated before, tons of people use it and do great things with it. It definitely is dependent on what you shoot, however.


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## EIngerson (Feb 1, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


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You're absolutely right about the convenience. 99.9 times out of 100 it's useless in application. but I've been in multiple situations where "the shot" required it. The 7D's flash is all but useless to trigger a speedlight in mid day sun. As far as safety? having a flash setup on the side of a jump or the inside of a corner is not going to interfere with the riders or the safety crew (if they have them) at a motocross track.


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## o hey tyler (Feb 1, 2012)

EIngerson said:


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It's not the motocross riders or safety crew I'd be worried about. If it were set up a distance away from where I were shooting, I'd worry about theft.


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## EIngerson (Feb 1, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


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LOL, thieves at a motocross track aren't going to go after $200-500 worth of gear in plain view of everyone out on the track. They'll go for the $3,000-10,000  bikes that get left unattended while taking a piss. Especially being this close to Mexico.


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## o hey tyler (Feb 1, 2012)

EIngerson said:


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Well, if you say so... 200-500 bucks in this economy would be a good grab off the top of a lightstand. 

Don't say I didn't warn you. It's happened to friends of mine at other sporting events. Speedlight stolen, camera bag walked off with. I keep my gear on a close leash, or have an assistant (my girlfriend) with a second pair of eyes on it. 

Just trying to give you fair warning, anything can happen. Losing gear sucks, but it's your gear to lose.


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## EIngerson (Feb 1, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


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I'll consider myself warned....and buzzed. Thanks for the conversation.


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