# sb-15 always with ttl always blinks improper exposure



## denada (Apr 28, 2017)

hi,

i have a sb-15 i'm using with a nikon fa in tll mode. the manual says the red dot in the view finder and on the flash will blink immediately after the shot if there was not enough light for proper exposure. that light ALWAYS blinks after the photo. what's wrong? i can shoot something 3ft away with f2.8 and 800 speed film and it still blinks. or i can shoot a more reasonable distance within the guidelines and it still blinks. it blinks no matter what. both in the view finder and on the flash. i tried changing the batteries. it's killing me. i need it to work right now. what's up?

thanks,

eric


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## compur (Apr 29, 2017)

Is your ASA set at 800? 

That LED also blinks if you set the ASA dial over 400 or if shutter speed is set to M250 or B.


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## denada (Apr 29, 2017)

no. had it set to 400 but maybe it's trading the film cartridge?


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## Designer (Apr 29, 2017)

denada said:


> no. had it set to 400 but maybe it's trading the film cartridge?


Yes, your camera does read the barcode on the film canister.  I think you can override it, but consult your manual.


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## denada (Apr 29, 2017)

appreciate the reply and you successfully interpreting my reading / trading auto correct typo. i thought i did override by manually setting the camera to 400. i've of course already consulted the manual. i'll report back after trying it with a normal speed roll. as of now i suspect that's my problem.


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## compur (Apr 29, 2017)

I don't think the FA reads film DX codes. Film speed is manually set via the ASA dial.


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## denada (Apr 29, 2017)

so why does it keep flashing to indicate error? i'm currently spending the weekend with a 5 10" beautiful 20-something who has no problem lounging around as i snap away. it's overcast. i'm pretty frustrated this thing won't work as intended.


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## denada (Apr 29, 2017)

even now with 400 in the camera and set accordingly it still blinks after each shot. i don't get it . can someone please help me? should i just use the m mode this weekend? why doesn't this work? do people use the sb-15? does it always blink after your shot with ttl? i've read all the manuals. please help me.


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## compur (Apr 29, 2017)

Inside the SB-15's battery compartment there is a little secret switch with 2 positions. One position says "TTL." Is the switch set in the TTL position?

_Edit: Ignore my dumb comment here. I was thinking of another Nikon flash model. Sorry._


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## denada (Apr 29, 2017)

humor, right? how about just using m mode for the time being? does that create good results? until i can figure out what's wrong.

it's not really funny. i have a rare, pressured opportunity and i'm posting on a board of photographers who consider themselves alright at the hobby and the best answer i've gotten is check the manual.

please just help me use the flash given the current circumstances. freaking internet people.

where's @derrell when you need him. girl is getting more frustrated than me. guess i'll just shoot her with an xa.

would really appreciate it if someone could tell me if m mode is dependable or if the manual is misleading about what the blinking red light means in ttl.

thanks.


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## Derrel (Apr 29, 2017)

The dial tells the acceptable range for the flash..Look at the lines and the distances they indicate for the ISO in use.


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## bluewanders (Apr 29, 2017)

denada said:


> humor, right? how about just using m mode for the time being? does that create good results? until i can figure out what's wrong.
> 
> it's not really funny. i have a rare, pressured opportunity and i'm posting on a board of photographers who consider themselves alright at the hobby and the best answer i've gotten is check the manual.
> 
> ...


Of course manual mode is dependable.  But it requires that you know how to use flash. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that in asking if manual flash mode produces good results, it means you don't know how to use flash.  So the answer, if that is the case, is probably not for you and not right now.  If you can't get the flash working and you don't know how to use it your best bet is to abandon it and use available light, since film is a limited resource, and you can't count on a malfunctioning flash to do your exposure work for you. 

Let's be real here.  You are using decades old equipment that you apparently aren't familiar with and haven't tested before hand.  There could be any number of reasons why the system is reading a deficiency in light.  Everything from "the light meter is broken" to "hot shoe is broken" to "flash shoe is broken" to "aperture ring isn't opening up on the lens" all the way out to the far end of "you're doing it wrong." I've never owned a Nikon FA... but I do own some geriatric nikormat FTs that require a small button battery for the light meter to work.  Those batteries aren't available anymore today, so you have to either pay to get the system converted for the batteries that are available today or make/buy a converter for the batteries themselves.  Have you checked if the light meter on the FA needs a battery, if it does do you know what kind?  I do know the FA was the first camera with matrix metering and it has a small button on the front to switch between between center weighted and matrix... if you leave the button locked on center weight mode, a light will flash.  Is that the light you are seeing?  I don't know, I'm not there.   I read somewhere that the FA ttl only worked at a 250th shutter speed... if that is true, that the camera defaults to 1/250th while using auto exposure are you accounting for that when calculating your aperture?  If not, could that have something to do with why the camera is telling you the exposure is off?

People with knowledge ask questions to gather information so they can help troubleshoot.  It isn't these "freaking internet people's" fault that you didn't test and familiarize yourself with the equipment before placing yourself in a rare pressured opportunity.  

If you really want help, calm down... lose the attitude... accept responsibility for creating this situation yourself... and answer the questions you are asked with the respect that begging for a favor deserves.  It certainly isn't going to engender much helpful response if you treat people with impatience and rudeness when you are the one asking them for their help.


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## denada (Apr 29, 2017)

Derrel said:


> The dial tells the acceptable range for the flash..Look at the lines and the distances they indicate for the ISO in use.


i have been an it still blinks in ttl. even following those guidelines. that ok or should i use manual or eve the a1 a2 mode?


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## compur (Apr 29, 2017)

Sorry, my suggestion about the switch in the battery compartment was incorrect. I was thinking of another Nikon flash model.


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## Derrel (Apr 29, 2017)

I owned an SB-15 for a long time, but gave it away to a kid starting out something like 16 years ago, so I went to the MIR site and compiled this list of information, carefully double-checked against their web page information.

I would suggest using the SB-15 flash unit not in TTL mode, but *in the AUTO modes,* either A1 or A2 mode. Now, my recollection was that the pre-flash test systemn of that era was not for TTL exposure checking, but for a pre-shot AUTO-Thyristor test shot.

Anyway..the AUTO-mode flash method is plenty accurate for color neg and B&W neg film exposures, at leat 955 of the time.  Here is some good information.

Keep in mind: in A2 mode, the "wide-aperture flash mode", your range WITHOUT any wide-angle diffuser panel is 2-20 feet; in the A1 or ther "deep depth of field" flash mode, your range is 2 to 10 feet, with ISO 100. If you have the ISO at 200, or 400, the flash range will be longer!

AUTO-flash is pretty reliable in my experiece: as long as the flash is set to the right mode, 1 or 2, and the F/stop is set right,and the ASA/ISO is set properly, AUTO flash mode works  great!


Nikon SB-15/17 - Instruction Manual

MD setting is 1/13 power

AUTO MODE information: f/4.0 at ISO 100, Range in A2 mode is 0.6 to 6.2 Meters  (2-20 feet)
AUTO MODE information: f/8.0 (ISO 100) Range in A1 mode is 0.6 to 3.1 Meters (2-10 feet)


Guide Number is 25, in METERS, at ISO 100.

Guide Number is 41 at ISO 25 in FEET (This would have made a lot more sense in 1984, shooting Kodachrome 25 ISO slide film!)


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## denada (Apr 30, 2017)

well i used m mode, not auto. and she got nakey. so really hoping that worked. moment was a little intense by the time you replied, but i appreciate it and will use it going forward.


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## Designer (Apr 30, 2017)

denada said:


> .. she got nakey.


Pics or it didn't happen.


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## denada (Apr 30, 2017)

one week develop time. though the lighting is completely #%^*&$ for all i know.


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## jcdeboever (Apr 30, 2017)

I have always used it in either A mode, never manual.  I totally missed this thread but still would not have known the answer because I never encountered that issue. I think Derrel nailed it as always. What a blessing he is on this forum.


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## denada (Apr 30, 2017)

i see should not have used m. the photos are going to be overexposed. oh well. derrell to the rescue, but at that point i was very distracted and didn't make good use of the advice. next time.

going to shoot a test roll messing with all modes so i don't have this issue next time.


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## Derrel (Apr 30, 2017)

I really think that the older AUTO-mode flash is a great way to shoot flash shots, either with film, or with digital, since the old-tech system relies on the shooter to set the flash's ISO, and with that keyed in, the A-1 and A-2 modes have a "factory-determined" f/stop against which to gauge the *flash fire-and-return to the phhotcell* on the flash unit. This factory-determined baseline can be used to huge advantage when you need a different exposure, either more, or less exposure than the system believes is correct.

For example, with the SB-15 without any wide-angle diffuser panel, the Auto-2 flash mode is based on the idea that at ISO 100, the correct f/stop is f/4.0, with a range from 2.0 to 20 feet. So,based on that, it follows that *at ISO 200, the Auto-2 f/stop* would be adjusted down one stop, *to f/5.6.* 

At* ISO 400,the AUTO-2* f/stop value would be set by stopping down yet another f/stop value, t*o f/8,* and we'd get good flash exposures at that smaller f/stop opening.

With a NON-connected, non-communicating or "dumb" AUTO-flash setup, we can introduce deliberate over- or deliberate under-exposure, by simply altering the settings to suit our own purposes! This is why AUTO-flash modes are more easily controlled than are TTL flash control modes. In TTL, the system constantly,constantly tries to "out-think-the-photog", and it can be a major hassle to make a dead-simple change! In TTL mode, if you click the lens down a stop, the TTL system wants to ADD more flash, so you need to use Flash Compensation to effect an exposure change.

With a digitial SLR, and an Old School flash like the SB-15 set in AUTO-1 or AUTO-2 mode, you can "lie to the flash" unit by setting a different f/stop, or a different ISO on the flash unit, OR on the camera, or a little of both, then shoot a shot, check the Histogram, and make any needed refinements to the settings of eithet the camera, or to the flash--all in less time than it took me to write that sentence.

It really comes doew to the basic concept that AUTO-flash was, and still is, a great system! TTL is in many ways, ovber-rated, and more-complicated than AUTO-flash regulation was.


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## denada (Apr 30, 2017)

this is all good to know. how ruined you think these shots will be? i was using trix400 on m with the diffuser  at a variety of aperatures. the shots were all close up.

i figured i'd at least have my xa shots. turns out i forgot to load it with film. we were having a good time.

i do have some impossible project polaroids that did turn out fine, so there's evidence. and a couple of her on that digital camera. but i'm pretty bummed both about the empty xa and the flash misuse. the trix shots are what i really want. she was into it for that camera.

what about having the film pulled when i develop?

yes, using the guide number formula, if i could have it pulled to like 100 iso the flash level would likely be much more appropriate. what's pulled trix like? is trix alright overexposed?


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## Derrel (Apr 30, 2017)

denada said:


> this is all good to know. how ruined you think these shots will be? i was using trix400 on m with the diffuser  at a variety of aperatures. the shots were all close up.
> 
> i figured i'd at least have my xa shots. turns out i forgot to load it with film. we were having a good time.
> 
> ...



It's  very difficult to know how the exposures will be...depends on how far the flash and camera was from the subject, and at what f/stop the lens was at when the shots were made. Tri-X is nominally 400 ISO; if you shot at smaller apertures and in the 8-15 foot range, you might have some decent exposures. Tri-X can handle over-exposure in a pretty good way, and can have some lovely highlight tones when over-exposed. But again...depends on how close the flash was, and the f/stop in use, and whether the flash was bounced up and off of something, or bounced off of a wall, etc.. Having used the diffuser panel is proibably a positive thing in this instance.

If you think the overall exposure was too stroing, then yeah, maybe ask for pull-processsing. Meaning if the flash was just being used as an accent or a fill light, at say f/3.5 at 1/20 second indoors....

But if the flash was like the MAIN source of light, at say f/8 at 1/125 second indoors, then I would most likely NOT go for pull processing.

What a shame about the unloaded XA...oh well, the images will live in the mind. The "what if..." types of shots!


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## compur (Apr 30, 2017)

Tri-X is pretty flexible on exposure. The shots may turn out better than you think.


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## Derrel (Apr 30, 2017)

compur said:


> Tri-X is pretty flexible on exposure. The shots may turn out better than you think.



That is sooooo true! I have some negatives from the early 1980's that were wayyyyy over-exposed Tri-X, with exposure times in the 2 min 30 seconds to 3:00 enlargerment exposure times; very DENSE,dark negs...but the pictures are lovely! Big, honking grain, and ethereal highest-highlight whites! If these photos are glamorous or boudoir-ish, a serious dose of over-exposure on Tri-X might yield some really neat images!!!


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## denada (May 1, 2017)

i appreciate the guidance as always, derrel. going to have them developed normal and hope for the best. sounds like printing will likely be possible even if they don't work so well for scanning. 

learning artificial lighting, at least some basics, is now high on my to-do list.


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## denada (May 1, 2017)

and wow, just re-read the thread and i apologize, compur and Designer. i appreciate very much you trying to help, even though i have an intoxicated post that made it sound otherwise. no excuse, but that post can be read in two very different tones. while it doesn't seem like either of you took it in the worse, i see someone else did and get how. but that was me simultaneously laughing and yelling like when you stub your toe. was having a damn good night.


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## Derrel (May 1, 2017)

denada said:


> i appreciate the guidance as always, derrel. going to have them developed normal and hope for the best. sounds like printing will likely be possible even if they don't work so well for scanning.
> 
> learning artificial lighting, at least some basics, is now high on my to-do list.



I'd hope for the best. Tri-X has grreat tonality, and I love its large,bold grtain pattern, especially when over-exposed. Who knows...one of my all-time favorite shots on Tri-X is almost black it is so,so,sooo over-exposed!


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## denada (May 26, 2017)

not pulling was the right call. film came out completely fine. the roll that i was using the ttl setting with came out slightly overexposed. 

if you can see the nsfw sub-forum: Error | Photography Forum


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## denada (Jun 30, 2017)

hi. after reading the manual and trying test shots, the ttl feature of this flash still won't work. i bought another to make sure i don't have a defective until. all contacts have been cleaned. new batteries. tested with multiple nikkor ai-s lenses.

i see derrel prefers auto for this flash. i bought it for ttl. did functional ttl tech not exist in the time of the sb-15 and fa and this is a gimmick that never worked? or is there something i am missing?

unless the subject is 5 feet away or less, it blinks to indicate under exposure even if i'm shooting well within in the distance/aperture guides. when it blinks, that means full power was used. and those photos come back over exposed, so it's not like the flash is actually under exposing as the blinking light claims.

any ideas what's wrong? i'd like to to be able to chose between more than the two aperatures the a1/a2 setting offers. thanks!


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## Derrel (Jun 30, 2017)

denada said:


> hi. after reading the manual and trying test shots, the ttl feature of this flash still won't work. i bought another to make sure i don't have a defective until. all contacts have been cleaned. new batteries. tested with multiple nikkor ai-s lenses.
> 
> i see derrel prefers auto for this flash. i bought it for ttl. did functional ttl tech not exist in the time of the sb-15 and fa and this is a gimmick that never worked? or is there something i am missing!



Actually, TTL flash was "relatively" new when the FA came out...it had only been a couple generations of Nikon cameras that had TTL flash when the FA was a new, medal-winning camera. The FA won the Camera Grand Prix, for its use of the then BRAND-NEW "matrix" metering system that Nikon invented, with the 100,000-plus actual photos analyzed and held in memory being used to help with the flash metering and also with ambient light metering. At the time, the FA had a then amazing 8-bit microprocessor chip inside the camera! This was radical, revolutionary stuff back then...this was the 1980's...before personal computers for the masses, before smart phone, back in the DOS days.

The FA was released before cameras used DX coding on film cannisters, and keep in mind that color negative film and color slide film used different approaches to metering. Color negative film benefitted from a generous shadow exposure (and in general some slight over-exposure) while color transparency film benefitted from an exposure that placed the highlight tones high up (basically under-exposure was the way to go) with an exposure that "pegged" the highlight tones, and which allowed the rest of the scene to go darker. So...functional TTL was basically, IMO, a compromise. There was no real way for the FA to differentiate between negative or positive film stocks.

I dunno...AUTO-flash works great! I love AUTO-mode flash...Set the ISO speed on the flash, see what the recommended f/stops are for that ISO (there are usually TWO AUTO-f/stop settings on most lower-powered flashes), and then either set that f/stop OR set a slightly different variation of that f/stop, and then shoot away. The AUTO-system will squelch the flash once it gets what it considers to be the "right" expousre level for the ISO and f/stop being used.

TTL flash was at the time, sold mostly as a way to be able to get "ballpark right" exposures at ANY f/stop, automatically! In _Ye Olden Times_, most flashes had two AUTO f/stops...one wide aperture value setting, the other for a smaller aperture opening...these two stops varied, according to the film's ISO value. Only very high-end, very powerful flash units had more than two AUTO f/stop values. *TTL flash was pushed mostly as a way to get flash automation at any f/stop.*...or if you forgot to set the right f/stop, or when using flash in more-complex setups,something more than just flash-on-hotshoe.

In the olden days, if you wanted automatic flash control, you generally had f/2.8 and f/5.6, or f/4 and f/8, or f/5.6 and f/11...usually about two full f/stops apart were the two, AUTO-mode color settings...when it was initially introduced, TTL flash gave you the entire aperture range, with automatic flash control! SO, from like f/1.4 to f/22, it was suddenly possible to shoot automatically-exposed flash shots. That degree of flexibility was very welcome back in the day.


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## compur (Jun 30, 2017)

denada said:


> any ideas what's wrong? i'd like to to be able to chose between more than the two aperatures the a1/a2 setting offers. thanks!



What lens are you using on the FA?
What style of mount? (Non-AI, AI, AI-S, etc)
What exposure mode are you using on the camera?
What mode are you using on the flash?


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## denada (Jul 1, 2017)

i appreciate the history and very much want that f stop flexibility, Derrel.

compur, i am using nikkor ai-s lenses. i have tried it on all exposure setting with fail, but mostly A (aperature priority). TTL is the mode i am attempting to use on the flash.


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## compur (Jul 1, 2017)

OK, the TTL feature should be working. 

I'm assuming you're mounting the flash directly to the camera's hot shoe. If you're using a cord of some kind to connect the flash then I would try mounting it directly on the shoe because  some cords don't support TTL.

Otherwise, I would suggest closely inspecting the camera's hot shoe to see if there is any corrosion or damage on its contacts. If all the contacts aren't making a good connection to the flash then that could cause the TTL feature to not work. In any case I suggest cleaning the shoe with rubbing alcohol and try again. Clean the flash foot too.


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