# Your HELP required - Industrial Berlin (image-heavy!)



## LaFoto (Feb 20, 2007)

For quite a while now I have spent some time on working on photos that I took in summer.
And there are some that I took off the boat while we tried to get into Berlin by boat (not possible to get to the centre with all the sights, mind you), and in order to get there, we had to cruise several canals that took us past some industrial areas.

I played with some in PS, this way and that way, testing out ever so many things, in an attempt to give them a bit of a gritty feel. 

I could have gone all black and white with a tint (or without) but for a change went for this partial desaturation.

Does it work?

(I post the "first edition" (not the out-of-camera original) as a small pic underneath and would please ask you to tell me if any other treatment might have been more successful here, ok?)

1a






1b





2a





2b





3a





3b





4a





4b





5a





5b





6a





6b





Some of you are so good at capturing the urban feeling, the grittiness of such places - I feel I cannot get close, however much I try. What can I do?


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## danir (Feb 20, 2007)

Sorry can't help. But I really like 2a and 5a. I think in both cases the edited one is better.

Dani


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## his4ever (Feb 20, 2007)

LaPhoto... these look very cool.  Did you destaurate some of them?  I think that is so cool and adds to the effect.  Thanks for posting the before and after.  I think what you did really works and I like it a lot!


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## enne (Feb 20, 2007)

I love them all better with the desaturation! I love bright colors, but I also love the feel you're going for, and the almost-complete desaturation looks so much better than straight black-and-white. I think the first image hit the gritty feel perfectly :]


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## PNA (Feb 20, 2007)

You have been so kind and generous with you comments for me, I hope I can return the same.

First....the desaturation of all the shots is great!

Second.....the desaturation of all the shots is great!

Third....the desaturation of all the shots is great!

I hope this doesn't hurt you feelings..... 

Paul


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## PNA (Feb 20, 2007)

I'll leave the critique to the pros.....


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## LaFoto (Feb 20, 2007)

PNA said:


> I hope this doesn't hurt you feelings.....


 
:goodvibe: NO  :hug:: 
Thank you all so far.
I hope to hear more ... there are some real EXPERTS out here on urban photography! I know there are!


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## MrMatthieu (Feb 20, 2007)

Corinna wie geht's?

Usually I do not comment too much your picture because the subjetc many times do not match with my sensibility or what I use to take for picture, but these one talk to me

Partial desaturation is a great idea to express DDR in my mind :thumbup: .
I would have maybe also given a kind of oldy post treatment by playing withe Red, Blue & Green curve one by one with Photoshop ( U see what I mean ? ), and maybe add also a kind of slight yellow filter.

After this I give you few comments for each of your picture/


1/ It works for me nothing to change :thumbup: 

2/ I like a lot the dark colour of the water, it make the picture quite scaring. Very nice  again :mrgreen: 

3/ and 4 again very good. Definitly desaturation was a good idea for these shots

5/ Very nice eye  , the car just in the middle; But I feel like it s not vertical, check the lining with Photoshop, maybe you need to slightly rotate it.

6/ I don't like so much because it s not obvious it is an industrial complexe, look more like an hotel , it s no on line with the serie.

I do not know Berlin, but I know quite well " Ruhr" area, and I feel exactly the industrial atmosphere that I found there at this time.
That why , I tell you honestly , you did a great job with this serie.
As  you know , I am not really the kind of personn who say that just to make people happy...

Mat


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## LaFoto (Feb 20, 2007)

, Monsieur Matthieu!

Thanks for coming to one of my threads. Seems like at last I am meeting your tastes. Yes, I know: nature and flowers are not for everyone, but it seems like there is little else around me. I need to go on holidays to give my eyes the treat of industrial estate pics, I'm afraid :roll: 

Hey, how come you know the Ruhr area?
I hail from there, more or less! 

If you know that area, you know about the grand industrial architecture that was done around the turn of the 19th to the 20th century, and I would think that the building in my last photo is from that period. They did not build plain factories, all squares and such, at the time, but "Cathedrals of Big Industry" (as you find them called in books occasionally). The surroudings in which we also saw that building in 6a and 6b was so that NO ONE would want to spend a night there, so if that were a hotel, it'd be always EMPTY .

Hey, about 5a and b ... the original is embarrassingly  crooked, but VERY (it happens to be up here on TPF somewhere, but WHERE? hmph :scratch: ... in a thread on how to photograph rain in The Beginners' Place, I think) ... so what you see here already is a very corrected version and my orientation were the windows exactly at the right frame. Do you think I had better chosen some other part for my orientation?


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## inneist (Feb 20, 2007)

I am very impressed with what you have done with #3 and #5, to a less degree, #1. Naturally I refer to the improvement to the original versions you provided. After the treatment, the photos look more right in serving your defined purpose...the gritty side of the urban environment is visible. I must say in the final images the nuanced gray turns out a definite plus. This is most notable in #5, imho.


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## William (Feb 20, 2007)

Definitely works!  Great job Corinna.  This is one of my favorite sets you've done.

-Will


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## Ab$olut (Feb 20, 2007)

2a and 5b are great I think you got what you were looking for!


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## MrMatthieu (Feb 20, 2007)

LaFoto said:


> , Monsieur Matthieu!
> 
> 
> Hey, how come you know the Ruhr area?
> I hail from there, more or less!


 
Corinna, "Deutsch ist die erste Sprache, die ich in der Schule gelernt habe ...." :mrgreen:. And I had a very good "briefefreund" at that time, I went many times with him to Wuppertall, Munster, Koln and Dusseldorf.
We kept in touch during many years.
And believe it or not i love "Würste" 

 

Mat


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## fightheheathens (Feb 20, 2007)

I feel like for the most part you got what you wanted here.
1A and 3A i feel are very strong images and convey what you want.
I especially like 1A and the treatment. works well with the subject matter.
I just wonder why Die DDR liebt?
when i was in berlin i was very facinated with the DDR nastalga. I find it very interesting


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## LaFoto (Feb 21, 2007)

It is not "Die DDR liebt", fight (which would translate into "GDR loves") but "Die DDR lebt" (GDR lives - meaning: is still alive) ... and don't ask me why the author of this thinks it applies. But then I also don't know for how long it has been there. But some tend to get a more and more beautified memory of the times when Germany was still divided in two and they still lived in East Germany, they have forgotten all the bad and only remember the good. And there was some, no doubt. Mostly so that everyone (provided they went with the system) was being cared for by the state, you could - if you wanted to - hand your life over and have the system run it for you. That was easy. With the high unemployment - both here and there these days, mind you - they feel they are underpriviledged now, were promised the Land of Milk and Honey and now have to live with a grim reality... that makes either violent or nostalgic... 

So you seem to think I went the right way with my conversions. Well, that does sound reassuring. For I was venturing into a whole new land with these, you know?


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## LaFoto (Feb 21, 2007)

No one else around who is kind of specialised in urban photography and would like to say something?


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## Jeff Canes (Feb 21, 2007)

I like 2a the most, IMO it has the best composition and contrast, also it seems a little more desaturated too me, the desaturate works well on the other also


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## Puscas (Feb 21, 2007)

sorry, I'm not specialized in urban at all, so I can only tell you that I really like what you've done to these. Especially 1,2 and 3. But I keep looking at them and thinking 'is there maybe a little bit too much noise'? I'm not really sure...


(okay, that didn't help)




pascal


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## LaFoto (Feb 22, 2007)

Well, that noise is, of course, debateable ... I added it. It was not there to begin with. Better leave it, you say?

And Alex_B?
Where are you?


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## cosmonaut (Feb 22, 2007)

Your compositional skills are top notch and they all work but I feel #1 and #2 are the only ones that are weak, but it appears you had few options with it. I love the plant pictures. I am slowly working on a global warming series and these are my cup of tea. Nice work...
                                   Cosmo


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## LaFoto (Feb 23, 2007)

Thanks Cosmo.
Composition is a bit of a challenge when you are on a boat that is moving (albeit slowly), so the perspective changes _all the t_ime .


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## Puscas (Feb 23, 2007)

LaFoto said:


> Well, that noise is, of course, debateable ... I added it. It was not there to begin with. Better leave it, you say?



well, take #1 for example: the noise works perfect on the concrete (the whole foreground), giving it just the gritty look you (I think) were after. But in the background, the same amount of noise is not so appealing (IMHO). Hmm, seems like I'm opting for partial noising.... (there, I've invented a term). 



pascal


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## LaFoto (Feb 23, 2007)

Hmmmm. Weeeeellllll.

"Partial noising" ... that is one thing to ponder.........! 

Anyone else with new ideas like *partial* something-more?


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## fightheheathens (Feb 23, 2007)

liebt/lebt, same thing, i knew it meant lives...i just pronounced it wrong in my head and well...i digress...i once had a hell of a time finding how to get to Bonn because with my midwest accent i pronounce Bonn like Bahn so when one askes wie kann ich nach Bonn Fahren and it sounds like Wie kann ich nach Bahn Fahern...well you can see how that would confuse the person and lead to me being confused and well...i finally had to say "the former capital of West Germany" which leads me back to East Germany and your pictures, where this all began. 
Ostalgia is it called? I did not get to see much of east germany, just what i saw in berlin. Upon a second viewing of these i still really like 1 as the best, but i also like 3A and 4A. i think that maybe 3 could use a little more grit? more grain possibly.


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## Aquarium Dreams (Feb 23, 2007)

Your processed images make the originals look downright cheerful!  Like everyone else, I love the partial desaturation, and these look gritty to me.  I don't know any particalar post processing tricks for urban industrial photography, but from what I've seen of others' work, you're on the right track.  Maybe there are no tricks, maybe it's just all personal perspective, and developing an eye for it?  I've known some urban photographers to sharpen their images more.  

My only specific critiques are for 5a, I would crop out the vehicle.  For me, a late model car saps the timelessness out of any shot.  Though perhaps your intention was to accentuate the contrast between the old and the new, and in that case it works.  It's a beautiful shot, but the car thing is one of my pet peeves.  

In number 6a, if you have cs2, try running it through Filter-Distort-Lens correction.  A big problem with urban photography is the distortion that comes from photographing tall buildings.  Some people like it, and in some cases I think it works, but in this instance, I find it a litte extreme.

This is a stunning set.  Bleak and haunting.  I love urban ruin and industrial photography.


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## Majik Imaje (Feb 23, 2007)

The gritty feeling you were seeking.. truely did the trick in each image, I was very impressed at the difference between each image. wonderful that you put each image before and after. 

or After and before!  Wonderful Set!  5 STARS !


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## LaFoto (Feb 23, 2007)

Thank you all again for your very helpful and encouraging replies.

Now another question: if you were to prepare a sort of "slide-show" (albeit via laptop computer and additional projector) to an audience who only just want to see some of your pictures taken in Berlin ... would you show them the "originals", i.e. the colour versions, or the PSed photos? Are the PSed photos ultimately only good for prints? What do you think the audience will expect?


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## Alex_B (Feb 23, 2007)

i will comment.. later! (promise  )


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## LaFoto (Feb 23, 2007)

This begins to sound like you are planning on something lengthy...

... for I have seen you post short comments in between the day before yesterday and now but never in my thread here... Whoa! What do I have to expect!?!?!?!?!?!


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## Christie Photo (Feb 23, 2007)

MrMatthieu said:


> 5/ Very nice eye  , the car just in the middle; But I feel like it s not vertical, check the lining with Photoshop, maybe you need to slightly rotate it



I was thinking this too, Mat.  But rather than rotating the image, I think I'd try EDIT, TRANSFORM, DISTORT and pull the upper left corner out just a bit.

Nicely done, Corinna!

Pete


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## Alex_B (Feb 23, 2007)

Hmm, actually not something lengthy ... sorry 

First of all, I think for all images the large versions work best!

1, 2 and 3 I really like, with 1 being the winner (blame the writing  ).

4 to me appears a bit cluttered, filled with detail, and that seems even more so with 4a since the brighter details appear even brighter and more prominent.

5 is very nice, and the tilting does not bother me much, even though it usually does. Maybe it is because the car is so nicely placed below the white cross of pipes 
However, the hazyness is a bit of a spoiler, maybe selectively increasing midtone contrast for the building might help.

6 ... well, the strong distortion and the converging lines put me off. converging lines work well in some images and don't in others. And here it does not work IMHO.
You need a shift lens


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## LaFoto (Feb 23, 2007)

Alex_B said:


> 5 ... the hazyness is a bit of a spoiler, maybe selectively increasing midtone contrast for the building might help.


 
It was POURING with rain. Really heavy downpour! I had HOPED to capture that, too, but it seems like I didn't.

And Pete, so sorry, but my ancient old Photoshop 6.0 version does not have this distort-function ... too bad, eh?



			
				Alex_B said:
			
		

> 6 ... You need a shift lens


 
Oh yeah! Too true.
But I didn't even get round to getting me the 50mm lens that I promised to get me as a late Christmas present (by my Dad). Not even that! :roll:


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## Alex_B (Feb 23, 2007)

LaFoto said:


> It was POURING with rain. Really heavy downpour! I had HOPED to capture that, too, but it seems like I didn't.


Hmm, so that diagonal texture is actual rain? well, now that I look closer I might guess it .. but maybe it works better in the original than i nthe downscaled version.


> Oh yeah! Too true.
> But I didn't even get round to getting me the 50mm lens that I promised to get me as a late Christmas present (by my Dad). Not even that! :roll:



too bad!

but there is a trick, if you are willing to waste some resolution you can take a landscape picture in portrait and only use the upper part of it. That can nicely reduce or eliminate converging line perspective.

I did it on this one for example:


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## The_Traveler (Feb 23, 2007)

Dear LaPhoto,

Since everyone has already made all the possible good comments, I'll just keep to the areas where I think there could be some improvements. 

Aside from the minor verticals that aren't quite vertical, I think that the dark areas in some of the pictures are way too flat and undefined.  If you look at #2,  for example, there is very little tonal variation in the foregound where trees and buildings overlap. The colors are different but the tones are similar and when the pictures are transformed into B&W, these very close tones  all merge into one mass.

It might be that some manipulation of the color images to change the contrast in the darker areas to 'spread' it out a little will give a more defined B&W. It might also lend itself to using a channels  approach to  making these B&W.


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## LaFoto (Feb 23, 2007)

Thanks for that tip, Traveler.
I more or less "played" with these before I even just began to understand a conversion by using the channels. I have meanwhile read about it in a photography magazine, and I might try my hands on that Photo 2 again using that approach. It is not exposed in the best manner to begin with, I'm afraid. I was only just taken in by the two canals opening to the left and the right, that big cooling tower and the power plant behind it (which features in Photos 3 and 4, as well). Behind me was that big, black cloud which is to be seen in 3 and 4 (as that is a view backwards from the stern, while 2 was taken from the bow) and which gave us the bucketload of rain later.

So - off to the Channel Mixer .

Thanks Alex ... I might not be in the situation to be gliding past my motifs on a chartered boat any time soon now, so I might get more chance to step back and plan my composition (and possible faulty vertical lines) more. I see the flaws in 6, I certainly do. I had the kit lens on for that one put to something by its possible widest angle and that did not work too well.

Next time .

Ah! :idea: How about my question on the possible slide-show? (*post 27*) Any thoughts on that?


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## ktm293 (Feb 23, 2007)

I like 6a better, gives it a much older style feel to it.


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