# Collecting payment



## Christie Photo (Jan 18, 2010)

I've never come across this before and I'm not sure how I will proceed.

I shot a wedding late past September.  I've been shooting weddings since 1972, so I'm not new to this.

My policy the entire time has been to collect a deposit to hold a date, and then collect the balance of my minimum order upon completion of the proofs.  These days, I no longer make paper proofs, posting a web gallery instead.  So the gallery doesn't go up until I get paid.

The bride booked me last January after seeing my work online.  At the time, I thought it was a bit unusual...  she called asking if I had the date available, came the same afternoon, paid the deposit and signed the contract.  No muss, no fuss.  She was in and out in less than 15 minutes.  We exchanged emails a  couple of weeks before the wedding day to confirm some details including when final payment was to be made.

I began contacting her about 18 days or so after the wedding to tell her the gallery was ready and payment was due.  I did not get an immediate response.  I wondered if they were still honeymooning.  Several days passed without hearing for her.  Her mother did call, twice, asking if the photos were ready.  I gently let her know I had not yet heard back from the bride, and that would have to happen before the photos were made available.

After two emails, two phone messages and a mailed paper invoice, there was still no word from the bride.  I received an email from the mother asking when she could see the photos.  I decided to let her in on the problem I was having with payment.  I finally got an email from the bride advising me it was OK to talk with her mother about the matter and that her mother was to make payment.

So, I phoned mom...  told her how much to pay and explained the she could see the photos upon payment.  That's where its stalled.  I sent a second invoice marked "past due, please remit."  That was mid December.  I haven't hear a word for either of them.

I have NO clue what's going on.  My first reaction is to call mom to discuss this some more, but my gut tells me any communication should be documented.  It seems she knew the whole time her daughter expected her to pay, but mom never told me she was to handle that.  This all seems a bit fishy to me.  I can't believe the bride is willing to go this long without seeing her wedding photos.

I'm baffled.

-Pete


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## icassell (Jan 18, 2010)

At this point, I would do everything in writing.


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## c.cloudwalker (Jan 18, 2010)

Seems to me you have done all you can and at this point I would drop the matter as the ball is in their court. I would just wait and see.

I used to get the balance paid the day of the wedding. Prints were not included so that came later. Had I been in your situation, I would have been covered financially. You may want to change your policy for the future. Maybe 3 payments with 1/3 at time of booking, 1/3 the day of the wedding and the last 1/3 to put the gallery up. Whatever the way to cover your expenses is and make somewhat of a profit.

Good luck.


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## Phranquey (Jan 18, 2010)

Christie Photo said:


> I have NO clue what's going on. My first reaction is to call mom to discuss this some more, but my gut tells me any communication should be documented. It seems she knew the whole time her daughter expected her to pay, but mom never told me she was to handle that. This all seems a bit fishy to me. I can't believe the bride is willing to go this long without seeing her wedding photos.
> 
> 
> 
> -Pete


 
From 20+ years in the construction industry..... document _everything_!! Save all emails, and if you have a phone conversation, keep a dated journal with basic notes regarding the content of the conversation....this is admissable in court should it come to it. God forbid you get the summons that you are being sued for the photos because either bride and mom are not communicating or they are trying to pull one on you.

We had enough problems at work that our phones are now tied to our servers. If I have a conversation with a client, I can go in and drag that conversation file over to my client folders. That now covers our butts when someone calls in and says "I ordered this, but got that... " Ummm, don't think so.


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## KalaMarie (Jan 18, 2010)

i'm not a professional photographer, but isn't the person who signs the contract the one who is ultimately responsible for payment of services rendered. in this case that would be the bride, not the mother.


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## AverageJoe (Jan 18, 2010)

Maybe the marriage isn't "sticking"?


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## Big Mike (Jan 19, 2010)

Tough situation...and one more reason why many (maybe most) photographers are getting paid up-front.  

My initial thought is that there is probably some family strife going on, and probably some financial issues as well.  Maybe they spent all the money they had budgeted for their wedding, plus their honeymoon etc.  Maybe they are swimming in debt now.  Maybe now, as life goes on, they are finding it hard to scrape together the money to pay you.  
Sure, it may be killing them (the mother especially) that they haven't seen the photos yet...but on the other hand, the photos are out of site and out of mind, so they may not be actively trying to save the money.  


*aside*
I has a portrait client a while back, a separated couple and their 4 kids.  I put the photos up on my website and she wanted to order the files on CD.  She sent me e-mails, saying that she was putting a cheque in the mail...tomorrow.  Nothing ever showed up (she didn't send it).  Fast forward a whole year and she finally calls and says she's ready to buy the CD...she will even drive to my house and give me cash.  I did trust her enough to leave it in the mail box and have her leave the cash in an envelope.  She missed two different days when she said she would come...but she eventually did and I got paid for the CD that I had burned over a year before.  

Luckily for me, I had charged a decent sitting fee up front, so it's not like I had to wait a year to get paid...but it was still a little weird.  

My point is this: some people are just flakes.
*aside*

Maybe give then one more chance to settle things nicely by sending an E-mail or invoice...but let them know that you will be forced to take legal action. 
Then go ahead and have your lawyer send them a letter.


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## robertwsimpson (Jan 19, 2010)

if you're feeling taken advantage of, then your deposit should be raised a bit.  your deposit should cover you for your time at the wedding, and a small amount of processing time to get the gallery up.  After that, I wouldn't do anything (custom editing, in depth processing etc) until I had been paid in full.  I think that's the whole point of a "deposit, balance" payment system.


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## Christie Photo (Jan 19, 2010)

icassell said:
			
		

> At this point, I would do everything in writing.



Yeah...  it is the sensible way go proceed.  I am CONSIDERING a face-to-face sitdown with the two of them.




			
				c.cloudwalker said:
			
		

> ...the ball is in their court.



Agreed.  But I'm feeling they've had time enough for some sort of response.




			
				Phranquey said:
			
		

> God forbid you get the summons that you are being sued...



Really, I think I'd welcome it.  If my rapport with them has degraded that much, they'd be saving me the effort if they initiate it.




			
				KalaMarie said:
			
		

> ...isn't the person who signs the contract the one who is ultimately responsible...?



Yes.  Legally, she's the one I will have to address.

Thank you ALL for your thoughts!!




			
				AverageJoe said:
			
		

> Maybe the marriage isn't "sticking"?



This one doesn't "feel" like that.  I've had one like that before, and wondered too if it could be the case this time.




			
				Big Mike said:
			
		

> ...probably some family strife going on, ...financial issues...



That was my first thought.  I really struggled with telling them to get out a credit card, not wanting them to start their married life with another bill.  I wondered if someone lost their job, or had their hours cut.

So now...  I feel a bit foolish...  concerning myself with all thier _possible_ woes, only to learn they apparently have no concern for me.




			
				robertwsimpson said:
			
		

> ...your deposit should be raised a bit.



Done.  But I'm still debating getting it ALL before the wedding. I think most photographers do it that way these days.


Thanks again!

-Pete


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## c.cloudwalker (Jan 19, 2010)

Christie Photo said:


> But I'm still debating getting it ALL before the wedding. I think most photographers do it that way these days.



That's the way I was doing it. Balance due when I arrived on the day of the wedding but I worked a bit differently. My contract only covered the shooting and proofs. All prints and albums came later.


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## Big Mike (Jan 19, 2010)

On this topic, many photographers actually have the balance paid before the wedding date.  One reason for this, is so that you don't have to worry about collecting it on the wedding day.  As many of us know, wedding days are already hectic and stressful enough (for them and maybe us too)...it can make things worse when you show up and ask for your money, if they are not prepared for it.  Of course, they should be prepared for it...but with all the other stuff going on, they may forget.  

Another reason to avoid the wedding day collection, is that you have to take possession of that payment...and keep it safe for the rest of the day.  Maybe not a big issue, but it's just one more thing.  I've been paid cash once or twice...and having more than $1000 cash in your pocket, is certainly something that sits in your mind.   

My contract states that payment is due two weeks before the wedding, although it doesn't always happen that way.  :roll:


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## olympus201 (Jan 19, 2010)

Pete,  The situation is possibly that the cash wedding presents were not what the happy couple expected.  And now Mom, Dad and any relatives/friends have been mooched on by the happy cash poor couple to pay off the wedding and other expenses.  
Yes, you should document everything.   Now I would contact them all and work out a payment arrangement over a period of time,  maybe a year maximum.
alex


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## KmH (Jan 19, 2010)

Big Mike said:


> On this topic, many photographers actually have the balance paid before the wedding date. One reason for this, is so that you don't have to worry about collecting it on the wedding day. As many of us know, wedding days are already hectic and stressful enough (for them and maybe us too)...it can make things worse when you show up and ask for your money, if they are not prepared for it. Of course, they should be prepared for it...but with all the other stuff going on, they may forget.
> 
> Another reason to avoid the wedding day collection, is that you have to take possession of that payment...and keep it safe for the rest of the day. Maybe not a big issue, but it's just one more thing. I've been paid cash once or twice...and having more than $1000 cash in your pocket, is certainly something that sits in your mind.
> 
> My contract states that payment is due two weeks before the wedding, although it doesn't always happen that way. :roll:


That and the consideration that many payment mechanisms take time to clear and some take more than 2 weeks for that to occur.


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## c.cloudwalker (Jan 19, 2010)

KmH said:


> That and the consideration that many payment mechanisms take time to clear and some take more than 2 weeks for that to occur.



That's a very interesting thing to mention because it reminded me that I always had cash in my pocket on a wedding day. Never asked for it but the wedding day payments were always in cash. I wonder why.


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## jamoore (Jan 19, 2010)

Just to echo a lot of what has already been said, I have in my contract now that the final payment must be made a week before the wedding date. We used to collect the day of the wedding, but people would forget and it became frustrating and awkward to hunt down the person with the check.

In a milder, but similar situation now, one of our clients wanted to upgrade their album to a larger format for an extra fee so we went ahead and designed the book with this format in mind, waiting for payment to send it in for publishing.  
It has now been 5 months since the wedding.  The client said the check was in the mail, but we never got it and we let them know this.  They have cut all contact and we never ordered the book.  In addition, they haven't received the images on a disc either - so... they don't have any of their photos and don't seem to care.
It blows my mind.  Like in your case, they don't have anything to show from their wedding.


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## bigtwinky (Jan 19, 2010)

I think you have given them more than enough chances to touch base with you to explain why they are late in paying...whether it be a job loss or other issues.  You have been unstanding and can't force information out of them.

Everything in writting for sure.  I would take the time to send them a registered letter requesting payment by x date, as per the contract (include copy if need be).  Registered letters here are held very high in court.

If they don't respond by the payment date, off to court.  Really, I think you have given them ample opportunity and have played the nice guy role.


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## bennielou (Jan 19, 2010)

Hey Pete,
Sorry about the client.

The way I've always structured it is this:

1/3 down  (this gives me leeway for the shoot itself)
The rest is due "contractually" 14 days before the wedding.  This freaks some people out, especially when they hear news reports, one after another of brides being ripped off by Craigslister types.  If they have a problem with that, I tell them that they can pay me the day of the wedding, and I smilingly say, "I'm not worried, I will be holding the photos hostage until I am paid in full".
I love ya Pete, and you have always been a mentor to me, so I'm gonna say it like it is:
When people shot film, you paid when you gave proofs.  Not anymore.  Now you are paid upfront.  Why?  Because now YOU are the lab, and there is a crapload of work that goes into those photos BY YOU.   I wouldn't touch a client's photos until I was paid in full. With so many people doing full res discs, you can't do it the way you used to.

People overspend on their weddings.  I've done weddings that people could have paid off a house.  Really.  They get in over their heads.  It's credit this and credit that, and then they want to play games with you.  They don't wait to take a bite out of their cake before they decide to pay for it.  They don't hold out on the venue, the band or the florist.  Why should you wait around for their "test"?

Because if you do wait, and the couple sees the credit card statements for all the wacky stuff they bought ended up being more that the $40 grand they put aside, guess who is gonna get stuck out?  

Then you get into the whole thing of, "I only like 1/2 of the photos" thing. Then they only want to give you half.  Like every damn photo you took has a dollar amount attached.  You are damned if you take a photo of the snacks, and damned if you don't.

So just don't get into that trap.  I've known you for many years and your work is top notch.  Demand what you are worth, my brotha!  They don't set the rules, YOU do.


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## Christie Photo (Jan 26, 2010)

Well...  I heard from the groom.  It turns out that the confusion on their side was WHO was going to pay: them or her folks.

He apologized, scheduled a time and came in with cash.

I'm not really sure where it all broke down, but it seems as time passed, it turned into a blinking contest.

-Pete


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## Big Mike (Jan 26, 2010)

I'm glad it worked out for you in the end.


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## littlesandra (Jan 26, 2010)

I would NEVER wait until after a wedding to receive payment, they have to pay a 30% deposit when signing contract to confirm the date and then the remainder must be paid a week before the date of the wedding in order for me to show up. 

If you don't hear from them, I would consider legal action.


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## c.cloudwalker (Jan 26, 2010)

Good deal.


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## ghache (Jan 26, 2010)

for 25 %, i will get your money


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## Antarctican (Jan 26, 2010)

Whew, I'm thrilled to hear this one worked out!


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## bennielou (Jan 26, 2010)

Glad it worked out sweetie.  BTW loved talking to you!


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## Christie Photo (Jan 26, 2010)

bennielou said:


> Glad it worked out sweetie.  BTW loved talking to you!




It's always MY pleasure.


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