# Is it time to give up on PC's and buy a Mac



## mcopan (May 25, 2010)

I have been running PC's as long as I could type. I have spend a fair bit of time working on my fathers Mac when I have photos to work on. 

I am technologically behind since I have been using Microsoft Expressions and Publisher for websites and general graphics needs. 

I have had three serious computer problems with my PC in the last 18 months and would like to get away from the PC hassle like virus updates, pop ups, etc.

I would like to get into the Photoshop world for some photo editing. 

Should I buy myself a Mac?


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## Sw1tchFX (May 25, 2010)

if you have a virus, than it's your own fault. 

I haven't had an anti virus, or a firewall on in 5 years and have yet to have any computer problems related to that. The only computer problem i've had recently is a motherboard going out and my power supply isn't quite beefy enough.

A mac isn't going to stop pop ups, will it make you less susceptible to viruses when you're browsing porn and downloading stuff off of torrents? yes.

do what you want, but if your 'serious problems' are you getting viruses from watching porn, than well.. It's your bad internet etiquette, not the computers. 


you ask any tech-support person and they'll tell you 99% of the time, things like that are user error.


Format, use windows 7, and practice some sort of caution when you're on the internet and i bet pretty much any of your software issues will go away.


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## KmH (May 25, 2010)

+1.

Though I would add that many people don't do the maintanence necessary to keep a computer system running well.

Things like routine Registry maintanence, deleting unused applications, doing hard drive maintanence, using good anti-virus, anti-spyware products, etc.

When was the last time you had the computer case open and cleaned out all the dust, dander, and hair out of the heat sinks and off the fan blades?

It could be your system is running to hot.


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## Browncoat (May 25, 2010)

:thumbdown: to the porn comments.  Kind of stupid and uncalled for.

To the OP:  One area where Apple has always shined is multimedia and multimedia editing.  Macs are generally more powerful than a comparable PC, though usually at a much higher price point as well.  If you go the Mac route, you will not be disappointed in using it for photo editing.  Just be aware that its formats are not widely accepted and if you are used to PCs, there will be a learning curve.

Perhaps a more wise investment would be upgrading your software to something like Adobe Photoshop instead.


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## Derrel (May 25, 2010)

mcopan said:


> I have been running PC's as long as I could type. I have spend a fair bit of time working on my fathers Mac when I have photos to work on.
> 
> I am technologically behind since I have been using Microsoft Expressions and Publisher for websites and general graphics needs.
> 
> ...



Yes.


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## mcopan (May 25, 2010)

From what I have herd from other Mac users is that there is little maintenance and set backs in comparison to PC. I normally pick new tasks up quickly and have adjust well to the Mac so far.

I also find Mac programs to be well thought out compare to PC. I find that when operating with Microsoft programs especially that they don't flow and I have to back track to get where I want.


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## Josh220 (May 25, 2010)

Up until about a week ago I had 3 computers in my room. Two macs, and a PC. I hadn't touched the PC in years so I took it out. 

Can PC's be good? Sure. Are they good for the average person who knows very little about computers? No. To have a reliable, hassle free PC you basically need to either build it yourself and/or know your way around it as well as a CS major. 

I use a 27" iMac for most things, and I have a MacBook for portability. 

+1 for buying a mac

P.S. Pop-ups are more related to your browser then your operating system. You can disable it in the browser preferences.



Browncoat said:


> :thumbdown: to the porn comments.  Kind of stupid and uncalled for.


Really?


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## KmH (May 25, 2010)

mcopan said:


> .......I find that when operating with Microsoft programs especially that they don't flow and I have to back track to get where I want.


Then you'll feel right at home with Photoshop. :thumbup:


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## mcopan (May 25, 2010)

Any other suggestions?


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## inov8ter (May 25, 2010)

MAC!!!! Only way to go.  Unless you want to deal with all the hassles. I have been using macs for the past 10 years or so. I used to know my way around a PC and how to fix them. I had to know and learn as I used to own a PC. Once I got a mac, I purposely forgot everything I knew about PC's and how to fix them and got rid of mine. To many of my friends had a PC and would always want me to fix it. I finally had enough and said I don't know how to fix it and if you don't want to deal with these problems...buy a mac. You will never ever look back, that I can promise.


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## Alan92RTTT (May 25, 2010)

Browncoat said:


> :thumbdown: to the porn comments.  Kind of stupid and uncalled for.


 I agree



> Macs are generally more powerful than a comparable PC, though usually at a much higher price point as well.


Mac's run basically the same hardware a "comparable" system will have similar power/performance. It will cost at least 2 time its PC equivalent. 

I'm sorry but Mac's are closed system desktop appliances.  It gets old you replace it.  While you can get most of the major software titles for both systems(photoshop) the software market for the mac is much smaller. Mac's are only virus "safe" because they represent such a tiny fraction of the "computer" market. 

A PC can be upgraded and last much longer. I Have not had a single virus on my system EVER. If you run good anti-virus software, set windows and your AV software to update nightly you can be fine on a PC. (assuming you don't click on popups)

photoshop is available for PC and Mac it works the same on both.


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## Josh220 (May 25, 2010)

Alan92RTTT said:


> Browncoat said:
> 
> 
> > :thumbdown: to the porn comments.  Kind of stupid and uncalled for.
> ...



The fact that you can just upgrade every OS they have is the reason why they are so susceptible to viruses. They are upgraded off of the same platform they started out with. 

IMO you summed up exactly why the average consumer will not be problem-free with a PC.
- "If you run good anti-virus software, set windows and your AV software to update nightly you can be fine on a PC."

Why should you have pay for a program and slow your computers performance for an allotted amount of time every single night just to keep it running "fine" ???

Some people are perfectly happy with a computer that runs "fine" on its best day. I, however, am not. 

Mac vs. Windows is the worst argument ever created by online discussions. It's even worse than Canon vs. Nikon because there is a clear better choice whereas Canon and Nikon are at least comparable on the same level. Mac and Windows aren't even in the same category, and due to the prices of Apple products, they appeal to different consumer markets. If you can afford a Mac, get one; if you can't, then try to find a PC that runs "fine."


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## Alan92RTTT (May 25, 2010)

The PC v Mac war can be summed up easily. 

Their is nothing a Mac can do that a PC can not do. 
Mac's cost more for equivalent systems. 
Mac's have less software options. 

If you don't mind getting less for your money get a Mac.


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## Josh220 (May 25, 2010)

Alan92RTTT said:


> If you don't mind getting less for your money get a Mac.



This I will agree with. 

They don't come pre loaded with all of the nifty stuff that Windows computers come with. All sorts of neat trials, ads, programs you don't need, programs with back doors to allow easy access to your computer, etc. 

Good stuff :thumbup:



Alan92RTTT said:


> The PC v Mac war can be summed up easily.



Those who can afford them, and those who cannot and thereby try to pretend that Windows are somehow equal. 

On the consumer level, they are not even comparable.


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## KmH (May 25, 2010)

mcopan said:


> Any other suggestions?


Not for image editing.


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## usayit (May 25, 2010)

Sw1tchFX said:


> A mac isn't going to stop pop ups, will it make you less susceptible to viruses when you're browsing porn and downloading stuff off of torrents? yes.



OMG.. my mac must be crawling with viruses now... thanks for pointing that out.


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## MartinCrabtree (May 25, 2010)

I've never owned anything but Apple. However I've used MS stuff on the job and find the execution of the programs unfinished and lacking polish. I'll stick with Apple.


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## Alan92RTTT (May 25, 2010)

Josh220 said:


> Alan92RTTT said:
> 
> 
> > The PC v Mac war can be summed up easily.
> ...



You poor deluded soul. 

If I wanted one I could purchase any product apple makes. But I do not need any of them. There is not a thing I can not do with my PC that I need/want to do. I can use photoshop, I can edit video, I can make DVD's, I can do my finances, I can do programming, I can surf and I can play the latest computer games.   And at the end of the day I have more money in my pocket. 

You, can do the same things. (Well except for the latest computer games ) There is one difference between......





Instead of money in your pocket you can look at your "cool" Apple logo.


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## Josh220 (May 25, 2010)

Alan92RTTT said:


> Josh220 said:
> 
> 
> > Alan92RTTT said:
> ...



You're right, you can do all of those things. I just prefer to do them better 

BTW all new (and upcoming) computer games are on both platforms unless it's contracted through Xbox since they are owned by Microsoft (i.e., Call of Duty). Blizzard makes all of their games Mac compatible and since they are the largest video game company that has ever existed, I think we are alright.


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## Big (May 25, 2010)

Sw1tchFX said:


> I haven't had an anti virus, or a firewall on in 5 years and have yet to have any computer problems related to that.


Of course, he isn't connected to internet or turn it on for that fact... lol 
If you really knew anything about computers (not saying you don't, I don't know you) you would see that there are usually _lots_ of little stupid things that are on your computer that you don't even know about. My computer runs fine at the moment *knocks on wood* but when I give it to my girlfriend to go through, tons of trojans or other things come up...


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## Alan92RTTT (May 25, 2010)

Josh220 said:


> Blizzard makes all of their games Mac compatible and since they are the largest video game company that has ever existed, I think we are alright.



Well I guess on a computer for 4 titles is a lot of games I guess having blizzard makes you "all right". 


If I put the effort into it I could show you how pathetic the Mac is as a gaming platform. But you are just not worth the effort.


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## Dominantly (May 25, 2010)

It's more then just the fact that everyone owns a PC, that keeps the virus world alive. It also has to do with how the two platforms process information, specifically executable files. Unix based systems like Mac OS X only allow you to run executable files within your own protected memory block. It's not as advantageous for people to try and write code for a virus for a system that will likely not allow it to spread, or even be effective.

I run a fairly powerful PC and have no issues with it, but I also have a friend who owns Apple products galore (top of the line stuff all around), and he has swayed me to look into a MacBook for my next purchase. My PC does just fine, but I think for mobile processing, the Mac might be the better option.


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## Fedaykin (May 25, 2010)

If you can afford one Macs are very well built computers with top of the line components put together to make a powerful, integrated system that though it is very limited in terms of upgrading it is powerful enough to not be obsolete in less than say three years. 

If you're not a fan of OSX it is fairly simple and effective to install say Windows 7 on it, or run it along OSX. 

All in all Apple computers, especially the Macbook Pros, are among the best commercial computers in terms of build quality and power. The only brand comparable to them in this respect is Lenovo's Thinkpad series. I myself would prefer a Thinkpad for various reasons, but for someone who isn't a tech junkie like myself a Macbook is an excellent purchase if you can afford it and don't care about upgrading your system without having to buy a new one entirely. 


IF you are a tech junkie though, you should know that for half the price of a loaded Macbook of iMac you can build yourself a very powerful PC(Macs are PCs btw) whiich you can upgrade to your hearts content and install almost any OS on it that you want. 


From what I can see though OP, your concerns doesn't have to do with build quality, power, components, upgrading, etc. It has to do with the Operating System. Though yes 95% of viruses are created for the Windows OS, the problem doesn't really lie on the system, but on the user. A smart enough user is capable of one of these, or all of them:

1. Using effective Anti Virus, Anti Malware, and Firewall software in order to protect yourself from infection.

2. Be aware of what you are downloading/installing and from where in order to avoid such infections(I have done this for 15+ years on Windows OSs from Windows 98 to Windows 7 without problems).

3. [sarcasm]Download and use Common Sense 2010, best Anti Everything out there[/sarcasm]


In my opinion the Macbook/iMac lineup is overpriced when compared to products with the same capabilities of other brands. The only advantage I see from them over 98% of other brands(2% is the Thinkpad line I mentioned, almost as rugged, a lot more versatile, and cheaper too) is build quality. Macs cater mainly to two kinds of people: hipsters who want the 'coolest' computer out there(this is about 90% of Mac buyers), and professionals/enthusiasts who want a quality product that has the power to perform things like multimedia editing in an easy to use, straight forward, sleek package. 

So yes OP, if you have the money, go get a Mac. Just don't go off pretending to be cool just because you have one, we don't need anymore of that kind of Mac user. In terms of OSX vs Windows, both are capable, neither is better worse; anyone who says different is one or many of these: biased/fanboy/ignorant/uninformed/wasting their time. 



Sorry for the mild rant, *TL: DR*: If you have the money go right ahead OP. If you don't and don't mind using Windows or Linux either build a computer from good components or get any other brand with the same capabilities as a Mac at a probably lower price.


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## Josh220 (May 25, 2010)

Alan92RTTT said:


> Josh220 said:
> 
> 
> > Blizzard makes all of their games Mac compatible and since they are the largest video game company that has ever existed, I think we are alright.
> ...



Unfortunately, I also know what it takes to turn a PC into a competent gaming platform. Been there, done that, and prefer to play on my 27" screen which blows away any other monitor I have played on, and doesn't slow down for anything.

Some of my buddies still prefer to build their own PC's (if you can buy it in a generic store such as Best Buy, etc., then it's not even worth purchasing because it will never come close to a Mac.) There are a few exceptions out there but they have to be ordered (Alienware for example). 

I will say it again since you are apparently a little slower than I initially gave you credit for. On the *generic consumer* level, there is no comparison. Regardless of your denial. 

Unsubscribed.


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## LokiZ (May 25, 2010)

Big said:


> Sw1tchFX said:
> 
> 
> > I haven't had an anti virus, or a firewall on in 5 years and have yet to have any computer problems related to that.
> ...



Well if your bank account is still intact and your PC doesn't run as slow as a snail up hill, then move to step two.  Do you have any uncontrollable software crashes? No?  Still good then.  Next question are you limited in anything you want to do on your PC.  If no then you have what you need and most likely you practice at least some safe use processes.

I would be interested in hearing your take on me...  Despite you not knowing me 

My PC is at least 13 years old
has had one hard drive replaced
has never had the OS hard drive wiped
The PC was not built from scratch
the PC was a reconditioned purchase
I am not at a CS major level, (no schooling for that)
I use my PC for video editing and authoring
I use my PC for 3d modeling and rendering
I use my PC for photo processing, printing
I use my PC internet research and anything else that strikes my fancy
I use AV software and a the generic Firewall
the OS is XP pro now SP3 but started at SP1 I believe.
I own a PC not because I can not afford a MAC but because It doesn't really take the amount of brains to run a PC in an efficient manner that everyone thinks it does. 

Again she's around 13 years old she's had a virus or 2 over those years but nothing that was not able to be cleaned.  And she still purrs like a kitten.

Oh and to the OP: I say if you want to switch to MAC go for it the choice is yours your decision is not set in stone.  It won't make you cool except in your own mind because that is what cool is.  But if you are having problems with PC you might as well try a MAC.  Not my cup of tea, but if there was no PC I'd own one LOL. (a mac that is.)


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## ghpham (May 26, 2010)

Arguments about which is better...PC vs. Mac is useless  :thumbdown::thumbdown:


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## Mbnmac (May 26, 2010)

Alan92RTTT said:


> Josh220 said:
> 
> 
> > Blizzard makes all of their games Mac compatible and since they are the largest video game company that has ever existed, I think we are alright.
> ...



*checks his steam account and upcoming releases for mac*

Yeah ok.


The whole gaming argument is retarded, he didn't ask about games, so don't bring em up, anybody.

If you're argument is 'power = better' that's fine, but don't say I or any other mac user is 'deluded' for liking how the programs run and work and enjoy the end experience.


And for what it's worth, a lot of pro-artists out there have switched to using a mac with things like photoshop etc, not for photos but drawing etc and have always remarked how much better it runs and feels, and how much less it'll crash on you.

To the OP;
If you have played with a mac and like how it runs, and you're not breaking the bank getting a mac, get one, there are several options on desktop or laptop based, but know that a macbook has all the usual laptop limitations.

I've had my imac for nearly 4 years now and it still runs great


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## LokiZ (May 26, 2010)

ghpham said:


> Arguments about which is better...PC vs. Mac is useless  :thumbdown::thumbdown:



Actually that is just slightly incorrect.  Arguments about which is better for everyone...PC vs. Mac is useless.  Arguments about which is better for you ...PC vs. Mac is not so useless as it defines how your work flow, well flows for you.  And depending on that is how well you can get done what you need to get done.

For me I use PC and I use dell and this is primarily why...

Mac vs. PC III: Mac Slaughtered Again


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## M.Powell (May 26, 2010)

I was pondering this same question this week... did some research and for MY purposes my pc's do what I need done.  So I would rather save the money a Mac would cost me and put it towards software or camera items I'd like to own.  That's just me.  I own a dell and a vaio, and love my vaio.  It works brilliantly, cost less than my dell which I've had a lot of trouble out of, (power cord died, hard drive went out, and then it finally stopped turning on and powering up, so after a long phone call with dell I got them to put into effect the send my old one and get a new one warranty into effect. ) The 2nd dell is working ok so far.  So after all my online research I'm sticking with pc's (most likely Vaio's in the future) because it does everything I need it to do.  
And anyone owning a pc without using a very good virus/pc protectant is silly (my mom is one of these people and is constantly having trouble with hers).  I'm online pretty much all day every day (so are my kids and husband) when we're home and between the 4 of us the laptops are almost never logged off.  Not a single problem with them other than the one I sent back. But that's what warranties and virus/pc maintenance is for


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## Lightspeedfoto (May 26, 2010)

I have a 27" imac and a macbook pro, and iphone.  I love them all.  On the other side, I also still have to use a lenovo thinkpad for work, and we do a lot of work with images (not editing), documents, databases, etc.  Both are suited well for the tasks they perform.

However, with that being said, the usability of my mac is 10 times that of the PC.  I don't have to go down a checklist everytime I want to do something on my mac.  I Just do it and it works, no matter how I do it.

No downloading drivers, etc. Networking is a breeze on a mac system, especially with airport express, extreme etc.  On the PC, if everybody doesn't like eachother, it's a 2 hour conversation with the geek squad.  Maybe windows 7 addresses some of the usability, but I don't know yet.  I only know that I only use windows XP pro.

As far as editing goes, i rarely use photoshop anymore now with Aperture 3 and lightroom.  You can do most anything you would need unless in the graphic design world.

Macs Rule, which is also why their stock is booming!  No system is perfect, but I always like to make it as streamlined as possible.  And since i'm a shareholder, whenever you guys buy macs and their stock goes up, I make money!  SWEEEEETTT!


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## Dao (May 26, 2010)

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLbJ8YPHwXM[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCV3VlZA06I[/ame]


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## Christie Photo (May 26, 2010)

I've worked extensively on both platforms.

IT USED TO BE...  I'd always choose Mac for anything in the graphics industry.  I had to.  There was no way around it.  The entire industry used Mac.  Things NEVER went well cross-platform...  mostly font issues.

These days, since Mac no longer uses that Motorola chip (somebody correct me please if this is inaccurate), things are much better.

I will agree that Mac has always been more user-friendly.  I agree too that it's a much smaller market so there are fewer choices and higher prices.

In the end, I'd say these days it's a matter of what you're more familiar with and what features you like.  

And just for the record...  both Windows and Mac...  are PCs.

-Pete


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## KmH (May 26, 2010)

Christie Photo said:


> And just for the record... both Windows and Mac... are PCs.
> 
> -Pete


:thumbup:


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## mcopan (May 26, 2010)

I think I remember hearing Mac is using an Intel chip.


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## bigboi3 (May 26, 2010)

yes apples now use intel chipsets.  I like both platforms they have their advantages and disadvantages.. but i prefer apple for ease of use on my end.


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## JBLoudG20 (May 26, 2010)

KmH said:


> +1.
> 
> Though I would add that many people don't do the maintanence necessary to keep a computer system running well.
> 
> Things like routine Registry maintanence, deleting unused applications, doing hard drive maintanence, using good anti-virus, anti-spyware products, etc.



Why would i possibly want to do maintenance on my operating system? I want to USE my computer, not maintain it.


Alan92RTTT said:


> BTW all new (and upcoming) computer games are on both platforms unless it's contracted through Xbox since they are owned by Microsoft (i.e., Call of Duty). Blizzard makes all of their games Mac compatible and since they are the largest video game company that has ever existed, I think we are alright.



Call of Duty is neither owned nor developed by Microsoft. I think you meant Halo.



mcopan said:


> I think I remember hearing Mac is using an Intel chip.



Yeah, they moved away from their proprietary CPU architectures. I wouldn't be surprised in the least to see them move back, after the pirating of their OS.


On topic: I have always been an advocate of: use the tool that works for you. If you are happy with a Windows system, don't worry about what else is available. Especially don't worry about what anyone else uses. It's really none of your business.

I don't even need to mention what I use. Why? It works for me, plain and simple.


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## ghache (May 26, 2010)

AAAAA MAC! OREALLY?

Macs are far less stable and secure and far more buggy and prone to crashes than people are willing to admit 
Windows Vista doesn&#8217;t really have any compatibility problems 
Mac is not the industry standard for video editing.
There is no discernible difference in workload, efficiency or quality of the end result whether you are on a Mac or a PC 
The days when Mac was the only platform you should use for digital imaging etc are long gone (as in early 1990&#8217;s long gone) 
The fact that you own an Apple product does not make you cooler, smarter, better or more skilled than anyone else


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## usayit (May 26, 2010)

Christie Photo said:


> These days, since Mac no longer uses that Motorola chip (somebody correct me please if this is inaccurate), things are much better.



Close...   Motorola I think was a core contributer to the design but IBM was the manufacturer.  The chip was referred to as the PowerPC chip based on RISC architecture.  

From what I here...

Part of the reason behind the switch to Intel wasn't necessarily that Intel architecture was superior to the PowerPC but because Apple had a bit of a falling out with IBM.  Apple wanted a bit more say so in the next release and design.   One example was the PowerPC G5 processor.  It ran too hot for more compact designs that Apple is famous for.  That's why the last PowerBooks ran G4 processors while the last PowerMac Workstations ran G5 processors.  


Oh... Mac is better.. at least that's my opinion..    Remember, Mac users are generally familiar with Windows machines but the opposite isn't necessarily widely true.  

Can someone please dig up the old thread of a user giving up on Mac and going back to PC?


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## Mike_E (May 26, 2010)

I don't want to maintain my car, I just want to drive it.




























































can somebody give me a ride?


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## inov8ter (May 26, 2010)

Alan92RTTT said:


> The PC v Mac war can be summed up easily.
> 
> Their is nothing a Mac can do that a PC can not do.
> Mac's cost more for equivalent systems.
> ...



OR you can just get a Mac and install both a PC and a Mac OS then you would have the best of both worlds!!!!!


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## inov8ter (May 26, 2010)

Alan92RTTT said:


> Josh220 said:
> 
> 
> > Alan92RTTT said:
> ...



Sweet , please let me know when you are going to be online doing all of these things so I can gain access to all your info... Awesome. I cant wait!!!!  LOL only kidding calm down.


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## Lightspeedfoto (May 26, 2010)

this debate will probably continue the same way canon vs nikon is.  Bottom line, if you want to be cool and have all of your stuff work, buy a mac and a canon.  the rest of you can use nikon and windows based computer, or whatever you want to call it.  Yes, you can do many of the same things on both, but they work better, and break less on a mac.  I've had my macbook pro for 2 years and not once has it crashed.  My PC on the other hand...with all of the virus software, it gets bogged down, and if i try to install something without remembering to turn off virus control, or firewalls, then something screws up.  Oh well.


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## robertwsimpson (May 26, 2010)

Every time I go to the Apple store, I am amazed, because no one is ever in there with a broken imac!
Wait, no, that's not true at all.  It's always slammed with pissed off people and broken Apple products.  Everything breaks.

Also, I'd argue that Apple's stock is booming because of the iPhone.  Period.  In fact, if it weren't for the iPhone, I'm pretty sure Apple would be dead.


Also, it's really funny that people who (judging from spelling and grammar in these posts) are barely literate can pass such harsh judgement on one product or the other.  


Anyway, this is a pretty entertaining thread!  I'm looking forward to reading more pure crap tomorrow!


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## Alan92RTTT (May 26, 2010)

Apple corporate is doing very well. 

From reports I've read most of their profit is comes from iTunes, ipod, iPhone and iPad. If their business was reliant on the Mac line it would still be limping along the way it was 10 years ago.


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## Browncoat (May 26, 2010)

robertwsimpson said:


> Also, I'd argue that Apple's stock is booming because of the iPhone.  Period.  In fact, if it weren't for the iPhone, I'm pretty sure Apple would be dead.



QFT.

The bad news for treehugging hippie Apple owners is that the iPhone is also slowly dying.  Like everything Apple, the buzz has worn off and people are starting to wake up to the simple truth:

Apple sucks.

Android is rapidly gaining steam, and in the first quarter of 2010, actually outsold the iPhone.  The new Froyo Android system has been applauded as leaving the iPhone in the dust as far as speed and usability, and it runs Flash and HTML 5.  App developers CHEERED at a recent Google conference when the them of the day was "open development"...something that Apple has never embraced.  And therein lies the reason why Mac never took off.  It's a closed and exclusive system.


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## Josh220 (May 26, 2010)

Browncoat said:


> robertwsimpson said:
> 
> 
> > Also, I'd argue that Apple's stock is booming because of the iPhone.  Period.  In fact, if it weren't for the iPhone, I'm pretty sure Apple would be dead.
> ...



Guess I'll poke my head back in for a bit...

The current iPhone is 2 years old. The 3G was released back in Summer of 08. The 3Gs was just a few small improvements. 

We will see what happens to those figures next month when the new iPhone is announced. As of now, you are comparing brand new designs to a 2 year old design. 

I have used many phones, from RAZR's, to Blackberries, and have used a Droid on a few occasions. I have no idea which model it was though, since it seems like they release a new "version" every other month to try to keep up. 

I have now had 2 iPhones (Original and 3G) and I'll be in line for the new one this Summer. None of the others mentioned have ever performed as well *for me* (_Personal experience warning for those of you who can't differentiate between fact and opinion_.) The Droid felt like Windows 7 to me... Basically just copied features from Apple, but not as good as the original. 

The new Windows 7 commercials always crack me up. "Look what else we tried to copy to our platform!" But then again, maybe Windows is on to something. Release a OS so terrible (Vista) that no matter what you do, it looks like an epiphany in comparison; especially when most of your features are just mimicking.


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## MartinCrabtree (May 26, 2010)

Boy this subject sure does bring out the angry in some people.


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## c.cloudwalker (May 26, 2010)

*Yes*

*YES*

*YES*



To be honest, get whatever makes you feel good.

I use Macs for my own reasons but this kind of question on a forum is never, NEVER, going to get you a worthwhile answer...


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## Browncoat (May 26, 2010)

Josh220 said:


> We will see what happens to those figures next month when the new iPhone is announced. As of now, you are comparing brand new designs to a 2 year old design.



Yep, you're right.  The 4th Generation iPhone is due out soon.  I'm certain that sales will surge for awhile, they usually do.

The iPhone currently has 45% of the smartphone market, which is astounding considering that it's only available on AT&Ts spotty network.  Android phones are currently weighing in around 28% of the market.  If the rumors are true and the iPhone will soon be available on Verizon, there will be a huge surge in iPhone sales.

But Apple has not positioned itself to win the smartphone wars.  With Gestapo-like developer restrictions, a boycott on Flash, and unlikely HTML 5 integration...Google will eventually mop up the floor with them on sheer numbers alone.  Apple likes complete control over their product.  Their hardware, their software, their rules...or you can't play.

Apple has not learned their lesson from the lambasting they took at the hands of Microsoft, and that's why it will always be a second rate product.  Open development is the key.  While the design of the iPhone is sleek and nothing short of incredible...it's the apps that keep people interested in it.  It's all the things you can *do* with the iPhone, not the phone itself.  Steve Jobs suffers from delusions of grandeur.  That someday the world will wake up from its IBM-run stupor and switch to Apple.  It's just not going to happen...ever.


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## mcopan (May 26, 2010)

I didn't mean to start and epic war of hate. When I originally posted this I was expecting more civilized responses. I guess no matter what you debate between two similar products or companies there will always be passionate people.

Thanks for the help. Its got me thinking that for sure.


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## MartinCrabtree (May 26, 2010)

Honestly go to an Apple Store. Go inside and pick a computer and use it. That will answer many questions and is how they set up their stores. They want you to feel free to use the product and are very helpful if you ask. There are two stores in Vancouver. Enjoy.


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## Mbnmac (May 27, 2010)

mcopan said:


> I didn't mean to start and epic war of hate. When I originally posted this I was expecting more civilized responses. I guess no matter what you debate between two similar products or companies there will always be passionate people.
> 
> Thanks for the help. Its got me thinking that for sure.



People love to hate on Apple for some reason.

All companies are out for your money, they don't care about you, same goes for Nikon and Canon, if they can squeeze profit out of you they will.

With that over with, go try one, find a friend with one, go to the store and see it in action, if you like it, cool, if not, get your comp fixed up and use it


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## IlSan (May 27, 2010)

Without trying to enrage the Apple hatters here, my own humble opinion is, that Mac works better than a PC - but that is just my experience.

For photo editing, I guess both PC (Windows) and Mac have their strenghts and of course, their weaknesses.

Why I prefer Mac? Well, because of the simple reason, that it does not come loaded with a bunch of crap I will never use. Because it pretty much does what I tell it to, and, I like the design (I know, not a good reason to choose a product...).

Have been using a Mac for over a year (after switching from 8 years of PC's) and must say, I could not be happier.

Then again, I use it mainly for photo editing and media editing, so guess, if you need to use it for other things, might be more strenous with all the software restrictions and stuff.


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## robertwsimpson (May 27, 2010)

By the way, to the original post:

Here is how you decide:
1. Separate yourself from your supposed "problems" with windows.  Having a computer is like anything else.  You have to take care of it, or it's not going to take care of you.  Be logical in your search for the best computer for your needs.
2. You know about windows... go to the apple store and play with the new Apple OS.  See how pretty it is, and marvel at the quick launch menu at the bottom.  Now imagine yourself using that system every day instead of windows.
3. Figure out how much you want to spend.
4. Figure out how much Mac you can get with that amount, and how much PC you can get with that amount.
5. Remember that computers run calculations and Operating Systems and other assorted software.  For intents and purposes, a Mac with the same hardware as a PC is going to run about the same.  Better hardware means better performance.
6. Figure out what you want.
7. Buy that.

That's all there really is to it.

Also, yes, I know a Mac is a Personal Computer.


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## Dao (May 27, 2010)

mcopan said:


> I didn't mean to start and epic war of hate. When I originally posted this I was expecting more civilized responses. I guess no matter what you debate between two similar products or companies there will always be passionate people.
> 
> Thanks for the help. Its got me thinking that for sure.



That's okay, if you hang out here long enough (or any other forum), you will know as soon as you mention PC vs Mac, you will see pages of response.  And most of them are not really related to what you asked.  Even if you just ask for an opinion of a computer, as soon as PC or Mac is mentioned, it will end up like this.

Keep in mind that the computer is a tool, use one you feel comfortable with, use one you feel good about it and most important, use one that can do the job you need to do.


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## mcopan (May 27, 2010)

Here's the update.

A friend of mine is a computer wiz. He took my PC to his place and spent a couple hours on it. He said that there was multiple small problems and things that needed to be cleaned out. So he did. He also loaded the latest CS5 for me so I can get editing photos.

I get it home and plug it in and it didnt work. So after trying a couple things I moved the crappy Seimen modem that I got from the local internet carrier away from the computer. Suddenly the computer is working half decent.

So I have a working PC that still has Microsoft programs that aren't well thought out and is effected with the modem close to it.

This is still a time wasting argrivation that is reacquiring. I get that things need to be maintained but this has taken dozens of hours out of my time which could have been used taking photos of things that make me happy.

I'm heading down to the Apple store soon to see what they have. Productive and structured opinions welcome.


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## robertwsimpson (May 27, 2010)

If you think that microsoft programs are not well thought out, you're simply incorrect.  Just because you don't understand how they work doesn't mean that they aren't well thought out.


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## ShutterShaman (May 27, 2010)

I own both and there are significant advantages to this arrangement. That being said, if I had to pick just one, I'd definitely keep my mac.


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## ApSciPhoto (May 28, 2010)

I haven't read all the way through everything posted, but here's my two cents, anyway:

It really doesn't matter what type of computer you have, you can generally do all the same work on a PC as you can on a Mac, and generally the same work on a Mac as you can on a PC.

This is the issue - when your PC breaks, you can fix it. When your Mac breaks the world ends. If I have something go wrong on my computer, I just research the issue and it's taken care of, generally without leaving the comfort of my home. My best friend only uses Mac and half of the time she could be working, she's at the Apple store in tears. And it seems to be like that for all comparable products.

I have a regular old touch screen phone. If it freezes up, I take the battery out. My boyfriend has an iPhone. If it freezes he attempts to restart it but can't. It's now in pieces because "hitting it against" his leg was the only way to make it work. So, I suppose my argument is that so many people make it out to be that Apple products are so much more sophisticated but when something goes wrong you need to be reduced to tears and bashing it in? I know that's not a fair argument, but the argument itself is generally useless. Buy what you want.

As for everyone that complains about PCs coming with a whole bunch of useless junk, try buying one not out of a box! If you can't build a computer yourself, find a bored nerd, give them $700 (still cheaper than a Mac) and they will have some fun, and you will have a bad ass machine. I had mine built for about $500 (sans keyboard, mouse, monitor, and speakers), and my computer trumps most Macs I've worked on.

And no you don't have to buy a bunch of crap to keep it running smooth. I have one program keeping it clean, which is free off the MS website. I haven't had a single issue since I had the computer built at Christmas. 

*Having a Mac won't make your work better, and having a PC isn't selling yourself short.*


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## Cinka (May 28, 2010)

I say yes! 

I was a die-hard PC user for years. I endured countless problems and viruses and I did all the required (if not more) maintenance. I was also dating a computer tech at the time and my brother is in IT. I still had problems and was constantly updating one piece of hardware after another. In the long run, the PC ended up being more expensive than a Mac. New fans, new video cards, new speakers, constant pain. 

Finally, I bought a Mac and have never been happier. Is it problem free? Pretty much. Sure, you get the occasional minor issue, but TVs and toasters get occasional minor issues too. The only problems I've had on my Mac (5 years now running strong) has been things I did to it myself on accident- that's where Time Machine is a life saver. 

It's powerful, easy to use, you can use all your favorite PC programs, and you'll never look back on those dark PC days ever again. No appliance is fool-proof, but Mac is pretty damned close.


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## Alan92RTTT (May 28, 2010)

Alan92RTTT said:


> I'm sorry but Mac's are closed system desktop appliances.  It gets old you replace it.





Cinka said:


> No appliance is fool-proof, but Mac is pretty damned close.


LOL even a mac user agrees that they are just Appliances


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## Cinka (May 28, 2010)

Alan92RTTT said:


> Alan92RTTT said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sorry but Mac's are closed system desktop appliances.  It gets old you replace it.
> ...



_Appliance: an instrument or device designed for a particular use or function_

So why is that funny? :meh:


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## Cinka (May 28, 2010)

ApSciPhoto said:


> I haven't read all the way through everything posted, but here's my two cents, anyway:
> 
> It really doesn't matter what type of computer you have, you can generally do all the same work on a PC as you can on a Mac, and generally the same work on a Mac as you can on a PC.
> 
> ...



HAHA. A PC without problems since December? I think that's a new record! Come back in 2 years and let us know how well it continues to function. 

I was a PC user for 11 years. I didn't get a Mac cause I thought they were snobby and I loved building and rebuilding. After countless late nights fixing everything that could go wrong and did, I just got tired of it. I now realize why Mac users are snobby - they have every right to be. In 5 years I've been to the Genius Bar once for my Mac Book - I killed the battery and needed it replaced. My fault. People think Macs are indestructible, treat them like crap and then complain like babies when it breaks. Get a grip. 

PCs are like an outdated Klingon vessel. Sure it'll get you back to Earth, but it requires some serious jury-rigging. 

Macs are like the Enterprise: _You_ _treat her like a lady, and she'll always bring you home_.


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## Alan92RTTT (May 28, 2010)

Cinka said:


> Alan92RTTT said:
> 
> 
> > Alan92RTTT said:
> ...



A computer is not an appliance 



Cinka said:


> PCs are like an outdated Klingon vessel. Sure it'll get you back to Earth, but it requires some serious jury-rigging.
> 
> Macs are like the Enterprise: _You_ _treat her like a lady, and she'll always bring you home_.



You are the one that compared the mac to a toaster. 

If your going to do a Sci-FI comparison at least compare them to cylons 


If you think PC's are outdated and require "jury-rigging" you never had a good computer. 

I've had the same PC case on my desktop for the last 7 years. Its internals are cleanly installed. I have upgraded parts as they got older to increase performance. I have never had to "jury-rig" anything to maintain correct functionality. If you or someone else had to do that to you system you or they did not know what they were doing. 

I have seen many many bastardized excuses for PC's that were made by people that "thought" they knew what they were doing.


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## Cinka (May 28, 2010)

Alan92RTTT said:


> Cinka said:
> 
> 
> > Alan92RTTT said:
> ...



Well, we don't have to argue what is an isn't an appliance. It's just a word. 

You may be the exception to the rule because you obviously have the patience to care for your PC. The average user, say...my Mom, doesn't. Most people don't enjoy building and rebuilding. I don't anymore. I'd rather spend that time doing real work and getting paid for it. The point is, in order to have an excellent PC, you have to put in the work upgrading and installing over the years. You have to build it from the ground up. With Macs, you don't. They just work out of the box. I'd rather buy a new lens every couple of years than replace an old video card or other miscellaneous organs. 

To each his own. If you don't want hassle, get a Mac. If you enjoy replacing parts every couple of years or building your own machine, buy a PC. Besides, KeyNote is worth the price of admission any day over PowerPoint. It's simply beautiful. Design-wise, Mac beats PC every time. 

p.s. Hey Alan92RTTT, don't tell me I don't know what I'm doing. You don't know what I know. No need to be uncivilized.


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## Alan92RTTT (May 28, 2010)

I'm sorry you consider my comments uncivilized.  


But the reality is a properly built PC will run for years. 

In the late 90's I helped my wife's friend choose a locally built PC. She is very nice and intelligent but she is not a tech head in any way.  (and she'll admit it). Just last year I finally replaced that computer for her as it had gotten too slow for her. It ran fine for her for over 10 years. My dad has several systems for the grandkids to use that are still running pentumum II processors. 

Mac hard ware is PC hardware in a pretty box. 
Mac OS is a nix variant(I think its beOS based not sure tho) with a pretty UI on it. 

Neither system in inherently better than the other. 

Mac's are more expensive for the same damn thing in a pretty box.


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## JBLoudG20 (May 29, 2010)

Give it a rest already. Use what works for you, and stop caring about what everyone else uses.


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## usayit (May 29, 2010)

JBLoudG20 said:


> Give it a rest already. Use what works for you, and stop caring about what everyone else uses.



What he said....  Same for Nikon versus Canon SNAFU.


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## cfusionpm (May 29, 2010)

usayit said:


> JBLoudG20 said:
> 
> 
> > Give it a rest already. Use what works for you, and stop caring about what everyone else uses.
> ...


Except neither Nikon nor Canon run ad campaigns saying how garbage and useless the other one is.  Rather, they just focus on highlighting their OWN products and features.



Alan92RTTT said:


> Mac's are more expensive for the same damn thing in a pretty box.


/end of thread.


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## usayit (May 29, 2010)

Forget ads...   there is equal bashing on both topics among users.  

Who cares which product is more expensive... its the consumer's money.  Its an idiot stance from Windows camp.  If it is more expensive than the market will bear then the consumers will go elsewhere (Microsoft) for their needs.

Apparently that isn't happening...  

New King of Technology - Apple Overtakes Microsoft - NYTimes.com

/end of thread.   hahaha   joke.


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## cfusionpm (May 29, 2010)

Because they have a brilliant business model of hype and competition smear.  Their products are good, but not the godsend that Jobs believe they are.  

Besides, all that article really says is that it took Apple an entire line of hardware products and super aggressive hype campaigning just to make a dent in what is essentially a software company.


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## table1349 (May 29, 2010)




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## usayit (May 30, 2010)

cfusionpm said:


> Because they have a brilliant business model of hype and competition smear.  Their products are good, but not the godsend that Jobs believe they are.
> 
> Besides, all that article really says is that it took Apple an entire line of hardware products and super aggressive hype campaigning just to make a dent in what is essentially a software company.




Is it so hard to accept that just maybe Apple knows how to design products that the consumer/market wants and is willing to pay premium for?

Funny.. not to long ago... the same crowd was saying that Apple was a niche market product usually pointing out market presence (lack of) as an indication.  The opposite is starting to occur and suddenly the information is no longer consider important to the discussion... tossed away in the "aggressive hype campaigning" trashbin.  (not like Microsoft hasn't done the same in years past)


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## ifi (May 30, 2010)

mcopan said:


> Should I buy myself a Mac?


No.


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## ghpham (May 30, 2010)

JBLoudG20 said:


> Give it a rest already. Use what works for you, and stop caring about what everyone else uses.


 
+1

What a pointless discussion.  One which the OP no longer cares about.


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## cfusionpm (May 30, 2010)

usayit said:


> Is it so hard to accept that just maybe Apple knows how to design products that the consumer/market wants and is willing to pay premium for?


No I just personally don't choose to use them because I feel that in the vast majority of cases, other products fit my needs better and at a better price.  I applaud them for their brilliance in marketing decent-to-good devices in incredibly desirable packaging.  They managed to pull off what many other companies strive for.  But does that mean they make the best products available?  I personally don't think so.  I've had numerous personal issues with designs or features of various Apple products that I just don't like.  Things they can't do that I think they should, or weird things they do have that I'd rather they not.  That's my opinion.  If the public is willing to pay more money for shiny white plastic, then by all means; it's their money.  I'm just not one of those, and I do as much as I can to steer people into what I feel are the best products for their needs; Apple or otherwise. :hug::


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## Derrel (May 30, 2010)

cfusionpm said:
			
		

> No I just personally don't choose to use them because I feel that in the vast majority of cases, other products fit my needs better and at a better price.  I applaud them for their brilliance in marketing decent-to-good devices in incredibly desirable packaging.  They managed to pull off what many other companies strive for.  But does that mean they make the best products available?  I personally don't think so.  I've had numerous personal issues with designs or features of various Apple products that I just don't like.  Things they can't do that I think they should, or weird things they do have that I'd rather they not.  That's my opinion.  If the public is willing to pay more money for shiny white plastic, then by all means; it's their money.  I'm just not one of those, and I do as much as I can to steer people into what I feel are the best products for their needs; Apple or otherwise. :hug::



Yeah, right. Sorry you've had "numerous personal issues" with the Apple computers you allegedly owned. Sorry to hear about all the things you couldn't get an Apple computer to do. Glad you're trying to steer people to PC's. Obviously, you're excellent at determining peoples' needs.

Apple Overtakes Microsoft in Market Capitalization (Update3) - BusinessWeek


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## cfusionpm (May 30, 2010)

Derrel said:


> Yeah, right. Sorry you've had "numerous personal issues" with the Apple computers you allegedly owned. Sorry to hear about all the things you couldn't get an Apple computer to do. Glad you're trying to steer people to PC's. Obviously, you're excellent at determining peoples' needs.


I've owned a handful of iPods and worked on 24" iMacs on campus for three years. The computers I don't really have an issue with other than the price of the hardware; it's more iPods and iTunes that I despise.



Derrel said:


> Apple Overtakes Microsoft in Market Capitalization (Update3) - BusinessWeek


 

As was discussed earlier by others, the vast majority of its revenue comes from iphone/ipod/itunes; not their computer department.


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## usayit (May 30, 2010)

cfusionpm said:


> As was discussed earlier by others, the vast majority of its revenue comes from iphone/ipod/itunes; not their computer department.



Oh really???

Looks like you are way off base with that statement

CHART OF THE DAY: In Case You Had Any Doubts About Where Apple's Revenue Comes From



Tossing market reports aside for any number of reasons you mentioned is just plain wrong.   Its like saying Microsoft's is failing in the hardware side of the market and ignoring their market presence as a software vendor.

Next your going to point out that the color purple in the graph means something worth ignoring Mac.    (I'm just pullin your chain).


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## epp_b (May 30, 2010)

All operating systems are crap.

Mac OS is crap because using it is reminiscent of that stupid V-Tech toy I had when I was younger (and has almost as many features)

Linux is crap because you spend more time dicking around with it than using it to get stuff done.

Windows is crap because it crashes.  The difference is that you can actually get some work done in the time between crashes.



> Is it so hard to accept that just maybe Apple knows how to design  products that the consumer/market wants and is willing^^H *dumb enough* to pay premium  for?


FIFY.


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## usayit (May 30, 2010)

Business is business...   

I always wondered why people are still dumb enough to upgrade Windows Boxes after being let down numerous times with previous releases.


Once the discussion degrades to insults at a general level, it pretty means the end.... of your stance.


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## mcopan (May 30, 2010)

So after not checking the posting in a couple of days I come back to a posting with almost 1000 views and six pages of comments. I hope that people found this entertaining and hopefully the people that said that this argument is old are entertained, well they must be because the took the time to read the six pages of bashing and still commented.

I think that I will be getting a Mac. I don't have time to rebuild and maintain a PC. For the same reason I got rid of my VW and bought a Toyota, I want something that works, and doesn't suck the life out of me every two months like the PC does.

People say Macs are expensive. People say that you get what you pay for. I don't mind paying for a reliable Mac that will allow me to get outside and see the world I want to capture with my camera.

I notice that the more time I read this Forum the less I am out shooting.

Thanks to those who made constructive comments and recommendations ... Cinka


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## alyaba (May 31, 2010)

I gave up on PC and bought my first Mac almost a year ago, and wow what a difference i barley if ever have to fix anything, its just a way smoother experience. i cant see my self ever going back to windows.


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## magkelly (May 31, 2010)

Oh please, there's NO difference at this point, none, except maybe for purchase price point. I've used both at work. Macs crash plenty too and though they usually have fewer exposures there are viruses and trojans out there now that do affect them and IMHO anyone who doesn't run a virus program on either type of machine isn't being very smart. Macs are not immune anymore. The nasty people out there who write them are far more interested in messing with the Mac folks than they used to be.  

As for actually working with them, in programs like Photoshop etc. I have used PC and Mac for those and the experience was about the same really. I found I could swap from one to the other pretty easily actually. 

Would I ever buy a Mac?

No, but not because they are not good machines. 99% of the software I own is written for PC at this point and I just don't feel like replacing it or using an emulator on a Mac to simulate running Windows just for those programs. There are some good video programs written strictly for Mac that I wish they'd do for PC at times, but that's about all in terms of the Mac envy thing. 

To each his or her own, but really at this point I think the argument is kind of mute. PC's and Macs are pretty well matched design-wise now. The rest is just a matter of preference and wallet size.


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## cfusionpm (May 31, 2010)

magkelly said:


> There are some good video programs written strictly for Mac that I wish they'd do for PC at times, but that's about all in terms of the Mac envy thing.


 
As far as I know, everything Final Cut Pro can do, Premiere and After Effects can do.  But I havent used FCP in a long time.


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## pbelarge (May 31, 2010)

Dao said:


> [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLbJ8YPHwXM[/ame]
> 
> [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCV3VlZA06I[/ame][/QUOTE
> 
> ...


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## Live_free (May 31, 2010)

All I see in this thread is fanboys going back and forth using fanboy logic. BTW fanboy logic is that of a 1st graders trying to decide what block is better, the blue or the red one.  Almost all points made in this thread are lul worthy. Seriously a bunch of grown men behaving like children, this thread should be locked.

To the Op if you are reading this, if you want a more reliable machine without having to know everything and be tech savvy go with a mac. It's more reliable if you don't know or just want everything to magically "work".

Go with a PC if you know how everything works or have the time to fiddle with it. It will be faster then a Mac if you know what you are doing.

derp End of conversation.


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## usayit (May 31, 2010)

Live_free said:


> Go with a PC if you know how everything works or have the time to fiddle with it. It will be faster then a Mac if you know what you are doing.



More "fanboy" logic....


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## Live_free (May 31, 2010)

usayit said:


> Live_free said:
> 
> 
> > Go with a PC if you know how everything works or have the time to fiddle with it. It will be faster then a Mac if you know what you are doing.
> ...



No that isn't. I use a Mac, actually several. They are easier to use, simple as that. How is that fanboy logic to say PC can run faster then Macs if you know what you are doing? By know what you are doing I mean codeline etc.


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## usayit (May 31, 2010)

"All I see in this thread is fanboys going back and forth using fanboy logic"

If that is your definition of "fanboy logic", then what you stated has done nothing but repeat what has already said with even less content.

Hence... "fanboy logic" (your words).


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## rallysman (May 31, 2010)

this is worse than Twilight tweens arguing about edward vs. jacob.


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## usayit (May 31, 2010)

rallysman said:


> this is worse than Twilight tweens arguing about edward vs. jacob.



Can't be any worse than the rich gold digging housewives that disturb my breakfast at the local cafe outside my work.


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## rallysman (May 31, 2010)




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## Live_free (May 31, 2010)

usayit said:


> "All I see in this thread is fanboys going back and forth using fanboy logic"
> 
> If that is your definition of "fanboy logic", then what you stated has done nothing but repeat what has already said with even less content.
> 
> Hence... "fanboy logic" (your words).



I never defined fanboy logic. I simply referenced it. I simply said I see fanboys going back and forth USING fanboy logic. not ".... THAT IS fanboy logic". 


Sheesh someone needs to learn how to read and comprehend words...


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## usayit (May 31, 2010)

Live_free said:


> I never defined fanboy logic. I simply referenced it. I simply said I see fanboys going back and forth USING fanboy logic. not ".... THAT IS fanboy logic".
> 
> 
> Sheesh someone needs to learn how to read and comprehend words...



oh really?

Fanboy | Define Fanboy at Dictionary.com


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## Live_free (May 31, 2010)

usayit said:


> Live_free said:
> 
> 
> > I never defined fanboy logic. I simply referenced it. I simply said I see fanboys going back and forth USING fanboy logic. not ".... THAT IS fanboy logic".
> ...



How does that have to do with anything? :meh:

Retards..

You are very good at way out of left field ignoramus statements. :thumbup:


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## Browncoat (May 31, 2010)




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## usayit (May 31, 2010)

Live_free said:


> How does that have to do with anything? :meh:
> 
> Retards..



Answer



Live_free said:


> Sheesh someone needs to learn how to read and comprehend words...


----------

