# Developing B&W 35mm film:  Did I do something wrong???



## canoncajun (Jan 24, 2014)

Hi there all!!  My name is Alan...I'm new to developing B&W film, but something appears to have went wrong.   I have a roll of Kodak Tri-X 400 that I want to develop, but am testing out my developing skills first on a few rolls of cheap Arista.EDU Ultra 400 film that I bought from Freestyle.   When it was all said and done, I started to squeegee the film, and bits of the film were coming off, one image had a huge chunk that came off.   So I'm looking for advice.   I'm thinking that maybe it might have been the fixer, or possibly that I didn't wash the film long enough.   But here's what I did and I've also posted some pics below showing how my film turned out (and I used *all* Arista chemicals and mixed everything according to the directions on the packages):

Arista 76 Developer:  1:1 working solution @ 68°F....12 1/2 minutes with agitation the first 30 seconds, and then agitation for 5-10 seconds every 30 seconds as per the directions on the Arista.EDU Ultra 400 box.
Arista Stop Bath:  30 seconds
Arista Arifix Fixer:  4 minutes  (the package says 2 minutes, but I tested the fixer on a leader from the film I clipped and the film did clear up within 2 minutes, but after researching, I doubled the time as others have suggested and determined that the fixing time should be 4 minutes)
Arista Hypo Wash:  5 minutes with flowing water, 5 minutes in the Hypo Wash with occasional agitation, and then another 5 minutes in flowing water.
Arista Wetting Agent: Added during the last 30 seconds of the wash.

When I took the film off the reel, everything appeared fine, but when I started to squeegee the film, that's when I saw that parts of the images were coming off.   So did I not fix long enough, or wash long enough, or did I just maybe squeegeed too hard???   Need advice!!   Thanks!

~Alan


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## Light Guru (Jan 24, 2014)

I don't think it would be your chemicals, more likely it's bad film stock.


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## gsgary (Jan 25, 2014)

I would try another without sqeegee i never use one, what tank did you use ? is there any chance the film was touching each other in the tank ?


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## Rick58 (Jan 25, 2014)

I've developed a lot of film in my life time but I've never seen this. I'd bet bad batch of film


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## The_Traveler (Jan 25, 2014)

water hot?


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## canoncajun (Jan 25, 2014)

My dad used to develop B&W film a long time ago, so I showed him the film when he woke up this morning.  He said that it was likely the squeegee.   He said he never used to use one either.   He said he would just pull the film off the reel and immediately hang it up.   So I'm going to keep everything the same when I do my next roll and just not use the squeegee.   We'll see how it turns out on the next one.


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## Rick58 (Jan 25, 2014)

I'm not sure I buy the squeegee explanation. I never wanted to take a chance scratching the emulsion, but many, many people do. For me it was just the wetting agent then onto the cloth pin in a dust free room.


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## dxqcanada (Jan 25, 2014)

Hmm, I have used squeegee's and I have never removed the emulsion ... just scratching.
I have never seen the emulsion being removed like that, like its being torn off.

Were you lightly using the squeegee or did you press it completely closed ... I only use enough force to contact the film ... and I always try to test the squeegee on the leader part of the film first before going the rest of the way.


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## webestang64 (Jan 25, 2014)

I've seen this before but it was with a film not fixed in a hardening fixer. Your wash times are too short. I'd do 10 minutes each instead of 5.

And DO NOT USE A SQUEEGEE.........if you use a wetting agent such as photo Flo you DO NOT NEED TO USE A SQUEEGEE......do you use sand paper to wax a car.......no.


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## timor (Jan 25, 2014)

It looks like inconsistent quality of gelatine used for this batch of film. Nevertheless touching wet emulsion with anything is a bad, bad idea. There are other, much safer methods of shaking off excess of water from film by light shaking or, I admit I do that, by wiping down with soft cloth the base side of film. Your film should be fine, if you do so. Arista Edu is a Foma film. Foma itself is not bad, but under name Edu may hide not very successful batches of Foma. I never had a problem with Arista Edu 100 in 135 or 120 format, but batch of Arista Edu 200 in 120 format was a crap, what, as turned out, everybody new except me.  Yet Freestyle was still selling it.


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## Derrel (Jan 25, 2014)

The_Traveler said:


> water hot?



Ummmm, yeah, that is my thought too. My guess is that in the wash, the water was allowed to get very hot.


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## timor (Jan 25, 2014)

Derrel said:


> The_Traveler said:
> 
> 
> > water hot?
> ...


Might be, but even Foma gelatine should withstand 27 C without a problem or came off uniformly.  I wonder, if OP controlled the wash temperature at all and it's quite possible, that not.


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## Derrel (Jan 25, 2014)

timor said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> > The_Traveler said:
> ...



That is my thought EXACTLY....that after a while, the hot water from the water heater got reallllllly hot. I've seen this issue before, and that was what it was from; HOT water wash.


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## limr (Jan 25, 2014)

It seems there are three variables that could have caused this:

-hot water
-squeegee
-bad film stock

The easiest thing to do is to develop two more rolls of the Arista EDU separately and change only one variable each time: first, do everything exactly the same but don't squeegee; then, be very careful about the temperature but go ahead and squeegee. 

I'll say that I'm learning towards bad film stock because of the number of problems I've read about concerning the Arista EDU in both 35mm and 120 (either Foma or Shanghai emulsions), but it will be interesting to learn the results of any more testing that you do.


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## gsgary (Jan 25, 2014)

Why has hot water been used 

Sent from my GT-I9100P using Tapatalk 2


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## Josh66 (Jan 25, 2014)

Rick58 said:


> I've developed a lot of film in my life time but I've never seen this. I'd bet bad batch of film


I've had this happen ONCE before...  I can't remember exactly what caused it, but it wasn't a bad batch - film from the same batch came out fine later.  I want to say that the chemical temperature being too high sounds right.

The edges of the film are damaged too.  I don't think a squeegee would have done that.


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## Josh66 (Jan 25, 2014)

Derrel said:


> timor said:
> 
> 
> > Derrel said:
> ...


It would be a very easy mistake to make.

Assuming that he was using a thermometer and adjusting the hot and cold taps till the temperature was just right - in a few minutes the hot water is MUCH hotter than when you started.

When I'm developing color film, I run the hot water till the temperature stabilizes, THEN start adding cold water to get it right.


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## vimwiz (Mar 5, 2014)

sulenz said:


> nice share, i'm newbie here.



You develop? 

Top ways to ruin your film:

Poor temperature control.
Poor light tightness.
Poor timing.
Squeegeeing!
Water spots.
Dust during drying.
Scratching it on the reel.
Over-agitation.


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## padaek (Mar 9, 2014)

I'd love a dollar for every roll or sheet I processed during my film days.

Here's what I think happened. Wet film emulsion is very soft and should never be handled. What I used to do was use a good quality wetting agent. I believe the good ones are ethylene glycol based. I'd run the film through the wetting agent a couple of times the give the film a 'flick' (like a whip) to flick off any water droplets, then hang the film in a dust free environment. I never had scratches or dust.

I used to work (late 1970s to late 1980s) in the photographic unit in a large heavy industrial plant. We would do our own B/W processing and printing. At time we had to work with very tight deadlines. My boss came up with an idea of mixing wetting agent with a bit of methylated spirits in water to aid in the drying process. It worked.


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## timor (Mar 9, 2014)

padaek said:


> My boss came up with an idea of mixing wetting agent with a bit of methylated spirits in water to aid in the drying process. It worked.


 Your boss ? Did he said it was his idea ?  What else he ascribe to himself ?
Technique of quick drying with alcohol must be a century old.


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