# B&W questions.....



## RedBeard8 (Jun 26, 2016)

I am completely new to film, so I am confused and have questions. So please forgive me if I ask something stupid. I have done a good bit of reading, but it all starts to jumble together in my head. So I figured I would ask than try to figure it out and waste film. My camera's are a Canon AE-1 Program with a 35-70mm Sigma 2.8-4 and a Nikon N80 with a Nikon 28-80mm .35-1.15.

The Canon is pretty easy to use...the Nikon, not so much. I mainly want to do landscape and anything outdoors. I love B&W so I will be doing a good bit of it, along with some color. I have a uv filter, a polarizing  filter, and a yellow filter. I also will be doing day and night stuff.

So after all that, haha, what would be the best films to use and ISO setting? that is where I just get lost. I know that everything says to set the ISO on your camera to match your film, but I see you guys changing that as you shoot. Sorry this was so long, but I just want to get started on the right foot. Thank you for any help you give.


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## Gary A. (Jun 26, 2016)

In the beginning, adjust the meter to match the ASA/ISO of the film.  35mm film is batched developed.  Every frame on the roll is developed all at the same time and in the same developer.  Which is why you can only develop film for one ASA/ISO setting, so the entire roll needs to reflect only one value.  In digital, each and every frame can be 'developed' individually ... So one can change the ISO constantly.

As you progress you can "Push" your film to a higher ASA/ISO then recommended by the manufacturer or "Pull" your film to a lower ASA/ISO than recommended.  The photog compensates for the Push or Pull via different developers, different development times and/or different development temperatures.


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## vintagesnaps (Jun 26, 2016)

I like Kodak TMAX and people like TriX as well; any of the Ilford B&W films are good.

I usually use 100 ISO film outdoors on a fairly sunny day and 400 evenings and lower light (gloomy cloudy days). Some people like to use 200 speed.

Whatever you do - set the camera's ISO setting the _same as the ISO film_ _you're loading_!!! lol I don't know where you're seeing people changing the ISO setting mid-roll or whatever, but I think online you might find more confusing crap than anything worthwhile.
(edit - Maybe what you've seen is what Gary's talking about, pushing and pulling film (which I've never done much) - I'd wait till you get good at the basics before you try it.)

The ISO is a measure of light sensitivity; that's why 100 ISO is considered 'slower' and 400 is called 'fast' - it has more sensitivity so takes less light to get a proper exposure - 400 works better in lower light.

You might be interested in Film Photography Project | An Internet Radio Show & On-Line Resource for Film Shooters Worldwide , they have a Flickr group that seems more active than their message board if you want to post questions there. They have videos you might want to take a look at.


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## RedBeard8 (Jun 26, 2016)

Thank you guys so much.


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## 480sparky (Jun 26, 2016)

Gary A. said:


> .................As you progress you can "Push" your film to a higher ASA/ISO then recommended by the manufacturer or "Pull" your film to a lower ASA/ISO than recommended.  The photog compensates for the Push or Pull via different developers, different development times and/or different development temperatures.



It should be noted that pushing and pulling roll film must also be done to the entire roll.  One cannot 'change the ISO' and process the frames individually.   You must 'push' the entire roll, or 'pull' the entire roll, and adjust developing the entire roll.

Use the manufacturer's ISO to start with.  Only with experience will you learn whether pushing and/or pulling is necessary.


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## CarlH (Jun 26, 2016)

I think he's read posts where people have used old expired film and changed the ASA/ISO to compensate.
To start, I advise you to buy new film stock, not cheap expired film off ebay as you don't know how it was stored, and when you come to use it, it will give strange results that you think were caused by something you've done wrong. And remember film is stored in your fridge.


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## 480sparky (Jun 26, 2016)

Also, film ISO is a _recommendation_ by the manufacturer.  It's not set in stone.  Once you gain experience with a given film/developing combination, you may well find you will want to adjust the ISO to better suit your needs/wants.  I routinely shot Kodachrome 25 at ISO 20, and even today will shoot ISO 100 b&w film at ISO 50 all the time.  It's not that the manufacturer 'got it wrong', it's just that doing so gives me the results I want.  It's kind of like reading the recipe on a box of cake mix that says, "Bake at 350°F for 45 minutes", yet you find 325° for 60 minutes works better for you.

Not to get too technical, but film exposure and developing are not linear.  This fact can be used to manipulate exposure and developing techniques to better suit them to allow one to 'visualize' the end result of a particular scene and change exposure and development to meet those needs.  The ability to do so takes A LOT of film, chemicals and time.  A LOT.

Since roll film requires one to make those adjustments over the entire roll of film, you can easily see why many experienced film shooters much prefer two methods:  
1. Using cameras with film backs that can be changed mid-roll without exposing the film (i.e., cameras with backs that employ dark slides).
2. Using camera that use sheet film.


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## RedBeard8 (Jun 27, 2016)

Ok, I understand all that. Thank y'all so much for the help. There is just so much cap out there. 

For night photography what do you guys use? And what's a general f-stop setting do you use?


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## dxqcanada (Jun 27, 2016)

What do you mean by "night photography" ?

Aperture ... changes with conditions and what affect you personally want ... if I would to generalize an f-stop to use it would be 1.5-2 stops from wide open (which tends to be the sweet spot for most lenses).


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## RedBeard8 (Jun 27, 2016)

Sorry, I left out sky night photography. Stars, moon, star streaks...stuff like that. I live in a small town so no cityscapes for me.


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## vintagesnaps (Jun 27, 2016)

I'd start out in daylight and learn what you're doing shooting film and how to get proper exposures before you try nighttime.

A camera records light. There isn't much light for a camera to record at night. So that's why photographers set up and do long exposures to allow enough time for the camera to record enough light to get an image.

You can do neon lights, Christmas lights, candles, etc. I haven't done that in a long time to know what film speed I might have used, but probably 400, maybe 800 or 1000 which I don't think is made anymore.

edit - Just saw the latest post; I think night sky photography is a specialized type of photography you'd need to research.


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## dxqcanada (Jun 27, 2016)

When shooting long exposures with film you need to consider reciprocity failure.
Most film data sheets have a table to calculate the adjusted exposure time for long exposures.
Example: http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/2010712125850702.pdf


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## Dave Colangelo (Jul 27, 2016)

Ignoring the night photography for a minute, 

Buy a roll of each and play around. Take notes on your shots and settings then review them when you have it developed. As mentioned all ISO settings are "suggested" and you can push/pull them as you like (with varying results of course). You should ask your local lab (if you are having the film developed by someone else) if they will do this for you. After some issues shooting 400 speed in daylight my lab suggested I shot the other rolls I have metered for 200 iso and they would pull it for me. 

As for suggestions, I have been going through this process my self right now. I shot 2 really nice rolls of Illford 100 on Monday in daylight and they came out great I have more on its way for my day time shooting. Ecktar is currently my go to color but I have a roll of fuji slide film Im going to run this weekend. I have shot the various Kodak B&W and made some really great pictures with it both Tri-X and T-Max. 

The most important piece of advice ill offer "a light meter in the hand is worth two in the camera"... 

Regards 
Dave


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## fmw (Aug 1, 2016)

Using recommended ISO developing times is the way to go as a beginner.  Underexposing and overdeveloping (pushing) the film increases contrast and increases grain.


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