# Discouraged by a master



## The_Traveler (Nov 7, 2015)

I was in Iceland for four days and one of the reasons to go was to take a day with a master photographer, Ragnar  Sigurdson.

The photography part was fine and I felt fairly confident but after watching Ragnar edit for a couple of hours in his studio I felt totally inadequate in comparison.

Today I started looking at some photos I brought back and, after seeing him work in LR and PS, I could guess how good they could be in his hands and I couldn't see myself ever getting even close to that level.

I couldn't even bring myself to start working on them.

Maybe I'll feel differently in a day or so but right now.......

FYI, his name is Ragnar TH. Sigurdson. Arctic Images Ragnar Sigurdsson  or  on Flickr  at https://www.flickr.com/photos/34333120@N00/ )

He has only comparatively few images online since he sells mainly commercially.
Seeing them on the screen does not begin to compare with what they look like printed.


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## D-B-J (Nov 7, 2015)

As if he never looked at someone else's work and thought "damn, I'll never be at that level." ??  Those greater than us should be used as MOTIVATION, not discouragement.  Your best adversary is who you were yesterday.  I don't care about 100%. or 110%.  That's bull.  All I want is 1% better than yesterday.  

Seriously man, rest it a few days, and re evaluate.  We all have to grow, and use his prowess as your motivation. 

Cheers!
Jake


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## gsgary (Nov 7, 2015)

His photos don't do anything for me in fact I hate them


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## jcdeboever (Nov 7, 2015)

The_Traveler said:


> I was in Iceland for four days and one of the reasons to go was to take a day with a master photographer, Ragnar  Sigurdson.
> 
> The photography part was fine and I felt fairly confident but after watching Ragnar edit for a couple of hours in his studio I felt totally inadequate in comparison.
> 
> ...


I feel that way when I look at your stuff.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## DarkShadow (Nov 7, 2015)

I might be wowed by someone else's photography and editing skills but I never compare my work to someone else.I just try my best to get the best I am capable of and not trying to compete with anyone else's Work. I don't get discouraged  because I can't manipulate or edit a photo as good. I take my photography serious enough to keep trying harder but never to serious that I get discouraged and lose my passion.


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## rlemert (Nov 7, 2015)

Don't forget that the 'master', in all likelihood, has someone who's skills he deems superior to his own in at least some regard. He (or she) may feel that there is no one that can touch their skills in e.g. landscape, but envies someone else's deft touch with portraiture.


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## NancyMoranG (Nov 8, 2015)

Welcome back Lew. I always enjoy/learn from your photos. Can't wait to see your latest escapade...


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## Overread (Nov 8, 2015)

I often think that editing in digital is a VERY under discussed subject area. 
We can see composition and settings and darkroom stuf gets talked about lots; but digital gets to be a minefield so fast. There are so many methods so easily done in the computer that everyone has their own workflow and there are so many articles but few string it together into a workflow - and even fewer show us the potential within a photo to edit it. We can see the end result and the starting point; but all the steps inbetween are a mystery to many of us. 

I often think its a sad thing because often we see these "great works" as a finished article - we never see the original which leads us to be hyper critical. Anything that isn't pin-sharp - perfectly exposed - et c.... is slashed to bits whilst we don't realise that many of the "great masters" are bringing back those average shots too - often teh best they could get in the light at the time, and then polishing them up.


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## terri (Nov 8, 2015)

With all due respect to his commercial success, I do not see anything much different in these highly processed images than many others that give virtually the same end result.   More than likely he has developed a savvy workflow that you got to observe up close and personal, which does not at all mimic your own.   Perhaps that's why you're left feeling discouraged.   But as with film photography, or any of the arts, it's the end result that matters, and for me there is nothing special about these images, other than the gorgeous subject matter of the places he's been.   

I completely agree with Overread's comments up there about how digital editing can get to be a minefield so fast.    I think you're being too hard on yourself - your Hwy 42 image is absolutely lovely just as you worked it, and I would hate to think of this artist taking it and twisting it into some garishly lit, oversaturated piece of - fluff- (I'm using restraint) that many of his images come off as to me.   

Stick to your vision, kid; you're doing fine.


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## bhop (Nov 10, 2015)

Are we looking at the right flickr link?  I don't really see anything special about his photos. I mean, they're interesting, but not "omg, i should quit" special..  I think what makes (some of) his photos special is being in the right place at the right time and having the right lens for what he wants to achieve.


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## DarkShadow (Nov 10, 2015)

I will take your street shooting any day over his work.


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## The_Traveler (Nov 10, 2015)

One of the disadvantage in getting any impression of Raganr's work from his site is that the top and bulk of his output goes to agencies that do all his selling and require exclusivity.
I've seen his work in person and large and it was stupendous and impressive.

Ragnar does have a mastery of LR and PS that is dazzling - and I'm pretty jaded about that. 
I saw him take some of our work and in 30 seconds make changes that seemed almost magical.
But that is beside my real point which was that his facility in editing only supports his ability to see through the original image to the final.
He understood virtually instantly what characteristics of an image needed to be changed/altered/improved to bring out the beauty.
And I think that's what Overrread was referring to above.
Too often the impression is given that a decent workflow is the answer to editing.
That's shortsighted and mistakes the builder for the architect.
A workflow is only an effective technical path to implement one's vision of what the final image should be.
If the photographer doesn't have that vision and can't see past the raw material to a final image then no workflow will save him.

My trip to Iceland was specifically to see how he worked and understand what he saw - and to some degree how he implemented change.
I could never have done the Iceland images, particularly the way I was able to do it with teh LR tools, before I saw him work.


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## The_Traveler (Nov 10, 2015)

DarkShadow said:


> I will take your street shooting any day over his work.



Thanks for that but I do think that good landscape work can have the same impact as street photography - to carry an impression and let the viewer understand what the photographer saw as important and not just copy what is in front of the lens.
In a way, I think, that doing good, meaningful work in landscapes is just as hard as street photography because so much is being done that is so very similar and repetitive and boring.
So much landscape work is essentially a copy of what we have seen or even done ourselves before.
That's why most kinds of photography don't interest me.
I don't want to make reproductions and be happy with just color, tone, sharpness, arrangement; I want to see things that interest me and capture them in a way that demonstrates how I think and experience them.
I'm pretty/very happy with the pictures from Iceland so far and I'm sorry I couldn't have seen the results when I still had time there. 
The success would have encouraged me to shoot more and better.
I will think about going back next winter at this time.

This sounds pretty pretentious considering I'm a nobody but I'm very serious about photography for myself, as a way to create something for me.


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## Solarflare (Nov 11, 2015)

Landscape photography is pretty ... but otherwise it does absolutely nothing for me.


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## imagemaker46 (Nov 16, 2015)

I like the scenery, but I think they all look over processed and many  of the colours very fake looking.  I can appreciate the work that has gone into the original images and the amount of post processing, but when the original images are changed beyond  reality they were, it does nothing for me as a photographer.

The only person you should ever feel encouraged or discouraged by is the one the mirror.


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## The_Traveler (Nov 16, 2015)

imagemaker46 said:


> The only person you should ever feel encouraged or discouraged by is the one the mirror.



Not discouraged so much as frightened.


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## jaomul (Nov 16, 2015)

In all aspects of life there will be people better at things than others. The trick is to do your best. I am not artistic, I enjoy taking photos, but a lot of people I know who are more artistic seem to do art for themselves, and are often then their own worst critic


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## otherprof (Nov 16, 2015)

The_Traveler said:


> I was in Iceland for four days and one of the reasons to go was to take a day with a master photographer, Ragnar  Sigurdson.
> 
> The photography part was fine and I felt fairly confident but after watching Ragnar edit for a couple of hours in his studio I felt totally inadequate in comparison.
> 
> ...


I once introduced a flautist (and composer), Robert Dick, as probably the best flute player in the world, which I sincerely meant. He chastised me, and said that "First, second and third apply to race horses, not artists."


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## Vtec44 (Nov 16, 2015)

His work is beautiful.  You'll never be able to shoot like him and the reason is because his vision is different than yours.  He will never be able to shoot like you because your vision is different than his.  So, there you have it.


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## The_Traveler (Nov 16, 2015)

Whenever I put up a new gallery, which isn't very often, I send an email blast to ~400 subscribers.
The Iceland shots, done with LR techniques learned in Iceland, have garnered many more comments/compliments than anything I've ever done before.
Additionally, someone I know from some volunteer work called to buy tutoring time in basic photography as a Christmas present for her son before he travels.
Also my primary care provider, who has a huge multi-doc practice, wants to do a large wall in his office with my work. 

Hmmm.
Since my entire photographic life has been in obscurity, I expected only to be recognized, if at all, posthumously so either I was wrong about that or I'm going to die very soon.


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## Village Idiot (Nov 18, 2015)

Overread said:


> I often think that editing in digital is a VERY under discussed subject area.
> We can see composition and settings and darkroom stuf gets talked about lots; but digital gets to be a minefield so fast. There are so many methods so easily done in the computer that everyone has their own workflow and there are so many articles but few string it together into a workflow - and even fewer show us the potential within a photo to edit it. We can see the end result and the starting point; but all the steps inbetween are a mystery to many of us.
> 
> I often think its a sad thing because often we see these "great works" as a finished article - we never see the original which leads us to be hyper critical. Anything that isn't pin-sharp - perfectly exposed - et c.... is slashed to bits whilst we don't realise that many of the "great masters" are bringing back those average shots too - often teh best they could get in the light at the time, and then polishing them up.



Or the fact that you can now purposely shoot what would have previously been an undesirable photo for the desired finished product.


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## vintagesnaps (Nov 18, 2015)

I thought some of the photos were stunning and some for me were overdone - too saturated, too sharpened, to the point that I found myself thinking more about what was done to a photo than the photo itself. Maybe this style is what works for this photographer commercially. I feel like the processing should enhance a photo not overpower it.

Got me thinking, aren't there a number of things in life that we learn it's not a good idea to overdo it? lol photography I think might be one of those.

I've found that some of the most worthwhile feedback I've ever gotten has been from an instructor, a professional, etc. that helped me know I was on the right track.


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## The_Traveler (Nov 18, 2015)

vintagesnaps said:


> Got me thinking, aren't there a number of things in life that we learn it's not a good idea to overdo it?



Wives?


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## vintagesnaps (Nov 18, 2015)

Gee that wasn't what I was thinking, hmm... lol


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## The_Traveler (Nov 18, 2015)

vintagesnaps said:


> Gee that wasn't what I was thinking, hmm... lol



Well, you haven't had as many as I have.


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## encom_ (Nov 18, 2015)

bhop said:


> Are we looking at the right flickr link?  I don't really see anything special about his photos. I mean, they're interesting, but not "omg, i should quit" special..  I think what makes (some of) his photos special is being in the right place at the right time and having the right lens for what he wants to achieve.


Isn't this part of what photography is? [emoji39] 
(Being at the right place at the right time with the right lens)


But for the record, I really love the route 42 picture. It is gorgeous!


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## imagemaker46 (Nov 18, 2015)

I should have added that if I had  taken every critique my Dad passed my way I might not have become a photographer.  I guess the difference was that I just wanted to try and be as good as him.


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## desertrattm2r12 (Dec 13, 2015)

Many times over the years I have seen some truly fantastic photos and felt like throwing my camera in the trash. But I never did. Humility is not a bad thing. It does not mean you can't work hard and raise your competence level to new heights. What is far worse is to think you know it all and whatever brainless snaps you take are totally cool and you vomit them onto the Internet by the hundreds. Daily.


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## pgriz (Dec 13, 2015)

The_Traveler said:


> I was in Iceland for four days and one of the reasons to go was to take a day with a master photographer, Ragnar  Sigurdson.
> 
> The photography part was fine and I felt fairly confident but after watching Ragnar edit for a couple of hours in his studio I felt totally inadequate in comparison.
> 
> ...


Lew,

Someone else's mastery is no rebuke of either you or me.  We are our own creation.


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## KmH (Dec 20, 2016)

You dug up this year old thread to make that comment.
Holy smokes.


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