# can't prevent rolling shutter when recording lasers!



## cipher0 (May 18, 2014)

Hello, I'm not a professional photographer.

I'm trying to record my laser beam shows with a Canon 600D camera. I can't get rid of the rolling shutter effect caused by rapidly moving laser beams!
Here's what a laser beam show looks like:
http://img.diytrade.com/cdimg/12177..._laser_beam_show_for_Special_effect_light.jpg





I've tried setting the shutter speed as low as possible, tried changing the fps, nothing helps...











I don't think there's even an affordable CCD camera these days I can purchase from what I've been told.
I've got this old big video camera which I think has a CCD sensor but it's a VHS camera!

What can I do? This has become extremely frustrating.


if you think knowing how these laser devices work will help you find the answer, then here's a simple summary:

There's a single RGB laser beam
The beam is hitting two tiny mirrors which can move very fast
The mirrors can move as fast as 24000 - 60000 times per second
So the multiple beams or moving beams is caused by the fact that those mirrors are moving that single beam so fast our eyes can't catch up.
The beam is very bright, if not moving it can light up a candle in a second, so it is set up to never reach the eyes and camera lens.


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## Overread (May 18, 2014)

This is sadly the primary weakness of DSLRs with regard to video work and a reason they are not as popular as regular video cameras for certain situations. You can see the same thing if you used a DSLR to record helicopter rotor blades, the blades start to appear to be bending in the air because of the rolling shutter. 

Far as I know the only solution is to either accept it or shift to a dedicated video camera. You can always digitize the film recording from a camera; sadly this means more cost either in hardware or in sending the video off to be digitized. 

Also with regard to lasers make sure the beams never go toward the camera, if one flashes down the lens whilst its recording you will cause permanent damage to the sensor. Remember live-view also has the sensor exposed.


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## cipher0 (May 18, 2014)

Hello. Thank you for your reply.

So what you're saying is, changing options isn't going to fix anything? In the laser forums people suggested to change the camera settings "untill you get a good combo that works for you".

Okay, then what do you suggest? Are there any video cameras with a CCD sensor these days? Are they expensive? I really don't know much about cameras...

I could record with a VHS camera then digitize it, but VHS quality is poor. I would be okay with DVD quality.


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## Overread (May 18, 2014)

Your best bet might be to get one of the older video cameras second hand, I know Canon used to do a whole line that recorded to a cassette; you'd then copy that to digital to work on. Higher quality than VHS by far. 

Dedicated video cameras might also have superior CMOS sensors for action recording, or might use different software that removes the rolling shutter effect whilst they record.


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## cipher0 (May 18, 2014)

Thanks.
what about cameras like these I just found which have CCD?: Canon PowerShot SX130 IS: Digital Photography Review


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## lambertpix (May 18, 2014)

BTW, careful with those lasers.  I've seen more than one of these reports:  Video: $20K Camera's Image Sensor Fried by a Concert Laser in Just Seconds


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## cipher0 (May 18, 2014)

Ok I found some more Nikon, Canon and Sony photo cameras below the $200 range which have CCD sensors, can shot 720p videos at 25-30 fps and can have their iso go as high as 1600.Anything wrong with those?


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## Trever1t (May 18, 2014)

No idea but i LOVE that laser light video set to RUSH!


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## Designer (May 18, 2014)

What did they use to capture the video?  Can you use/borrow/steal one like that?  And then, why not just make some stills from the video?  I don't know a darn thing about this, just asking.


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## cipher0 (May 18, 2014)

cipher0 said:


> Ok I found some more Nikon, Canon and Sony photo cameras below the $200 range which have CCD sensors, can shot 720p videos at 25-30 fps and can have their iso go as high as 1600.Anything wrong with those?



  ?


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## runnah (May 18, 2014)

If you know what hertz the lasers are and set the shutter speed according to that you should solve the problem. For example office fluorescent light are 60 hertz so setting the shutter speed to 60 or 125 will make it so there is no flicker.  

In fact I'd be willing to bet if you set the shutter speed to 1/60 you'd have no issues.


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## runnah (May 18, 2014)

cipher0 said:


> Ok I found some more Nikon, Canon and Sony photo cameras below the $200 range which have CCD sensors, can shot 720p videos at 25-30 fps and can have their iso go as high as 1600.Anything wrong with those?



Frame rate and shutter speed are different.


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## runnah (May 18, 2014)

Overread said:


> This is sadly the primary weakness of DSLRs with regard to video work and a reason they are not as popular as regular video cameras for certain situations. You can see the same thing if you used a DSLR to record helicopter rotor blades, the blades start to appear to be bending in the air because of the rolling shutter.  Far as I know the only solution is to either accept it or shift to a dedicated video camera. You can always digitize the film recording from a camera; sadly this means more cost either in hardware or in sending the video off to be digitized.  Also with regard to lasers make sure the beams never go toward the camera, if one flashes down the lens whilst its recording you will cause permanent damage to the sensor. Remember live-view also has the sensor exposed.


  Old cameras has similar issue


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## Trblmkr (May 18, 2014)

I diggin the laser show to the Greatest Band of All Time!!!!


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## Overread (May 18, 2014)

*learns new things!*

And there I was sure that this sort of thing would be cause by the speed of the lasers moving around


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## cipher0 (May 19, 2014)

Thank you for your replies.



runnah said:


> cipher0 said:
> 
> 
> > Frame rate and shutter speed are different.
> ...


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## runnah (May 19, 2014)

Well in that case you want something that can capture as much as possible in a given second. Considering you can't buy a 10,000fps camera you are going to have get a 60fps capable camera.

Again I am not 100% on what the issue is.


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## curtyoungblood (May 19, 2014)

I'm not really familiar with this effect, or what causes it, but you seem to think it is related to the shutter (based off previous research). If this is true, could using a different type of shutter solve it? There have been a few mirror less cameras with leaf shutters released recently. (I'm thinking of the fuji x100s, but there may be others.) it may be worth looking in to that.


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## cipher0 (May 19, 2014)

runnah said:


> Well in that case you want something that can capture as much as possible in a given second.


I don't think so. (BTW I've tried recording at 60 fps).
Laser  projectors rely on the limit of the human eye's speed. it's just a  single beam moving very fast and changing color very fast, but its still  a single thin beam. But because it is moving and modulating so fast to  our eyes it looks like there are multiple beams, long thin beams, waves  and similar kind of beams in the air, because that single thin beam is  "drawing" them really fast.
So I actually need something that mimics the human eye the most.

The  reason I wanted to set the shutter speed closest to the fps was because  I thought, and again I'm a noob, that it would prevent the rolling  shutter effect. but it turned out it didn't and I also learned yesterday  that a CCD sensor got rid of the rolling shutter artifact completely.
But  I've only found old (2009-) cameras that have CCD in them. I'm just  asking now if you think it will be a good idea to use old cheap CCD  photo cameras which can also record video or if you have a better idea.


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