# learning lighting - umbrella/softbox, etc.??



## photosoto (Jan 24, 2011)

Hi,
I've spent a majority of the day just researching lighting, examples, products, reviews, etc.
I realize that what I need depends on my photography needs and I have had a heck of a time trying to find the affordable most practical solution for lighting.  
softbox=expensive/controlled lighting
umbrella=inexpensive/less-controlled lighting
...so, anyone have an opinion on the umbrella softboxes??
and also, looks like a sure thing I can invest in is some good literature.  Understanding exposure seemed to be the go-to book for exposure, how about lighting?  Master Lighting Guide for Portrait Photographers??  I can go ahead with learning for sure.
thanks


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## D-B-J (Jan 24, 2011)

Check out strobist.com  Between that and reading any material i could, i ended up getting an umbrella and a beauty dish.  They both work great.  Also, check out the strobist thread on here.  Its a great source of info and real life examples of your future purchases.  I can vouch for adorama brand, as i use all their flashpoint "noname" stuff and its working GREAT so far.

Regards,
Jake


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## craigm (Jan 24, 2011)

For your first light modifier I would suggest a shoot thru umbrella, they're cheap and produce very nice light.

As Jake mentioned, strobist.com is a great place to learn about lighting.


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## photosoto (Jan 24, 2011)

Ok thanks, I will be experimenting indoors and outdoors so would the kit below be good to start with?  I have an sb-600 flash.


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## Bobabooey24 (Jan 24, 2011)

Sure!


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## photosoto (Jan 24, 2011)

2332 Westcott 43 inch Collapsible Umbrella Flash Kit #2332 with 8' Light Stand

Oops here is the kit


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## aprock83 (Jan 24, 2011)

an umbrella is very versatile as well. i just use a speedlight or a clamp light to shoot through.


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## craigm (Jan 24, 2011)

That's perfect.


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## HVVega (Jan 25, 2011)

Hi, I think at one time or another I have tried just about all of the options and keep coming back to Soft Boxes. Have a few Chemera (never spell that right) medium sized ones now that I use in the field. Sure they cost you to get into but the light quality difference is there and they will be there for you for years to come. Just one is enough to get started and do some fantastic shots. You do not need a lot of them - trust me- one will do you very nicely with a polystirene board as a reflector or even two of those. If you want to get into photography seriously concentrate on getting quality equipment right from the start even if you cannot have loads of things have good ones. They will follow you for years and pay for themselves later with not having to replace them. Cameras are the one place you will just have to keep trading up until you get to a "good" level for the work you do. Do not get lost in the techie stuff good images are still the product of your mind not your equipment. 90% of my work was always with the same kit - upgraded through the years- you see under my avitar. with a bunch of filters etc


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## HelenOster (Jan 25, 2011)

D-B-J said:


> .......I can vouch for adorama brand, as i use all their flashpoint "noname" stuff and its working GREAT so far.......



Thank you for the Flashpoint recommendation - very much appreciated.


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## kundalini (Jan 25, 2011)

photosoto said:


> ...so, anyone have an opinion on the umbrella softboxes??


 My opinion is that after the newness and novelty wears off, you'll have it setup as either an umbrella or a softbox the majority of the time.  I think the better money would be for a dedicated umbrella (cheap enough) or a softbox.  

As far as umbrellas go, I'd suggest a 45" as your small size.  Also, one of each..... shoot through and reflective.  You can pick these up as you go along, not necessary to have all at once.

As usual, just my 2¢.


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## photosoto (Jan 25, 2011)

kundalini said:


> photosoto said:
> 
> 
> > ...so, anyone have an opinion on the umbrella softboxes??
> ...



Are you suggesting two separate umbrellas for the sake of using two separately or for the different light quality.  I initially had in mind to buy two buy then I got to thinking maybe I should just practice with one umbrella.


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## KmH (Jan 25, 2011)

There are convertible umbrellas that have a black outer cover used for bouncing light off the inside, and with the black outer cover removed, for shoot through lighting.

The difference is, as a shoot through you can get the umbrella a lot closer to your subject and any light that spills out of the umbrella as bounced light is directed away from your setup.

As far as learning lighting, a good book to start with is Light: Science and Magic: An Introduction to Photographic Lighting


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## PhillyPhoton (Jan 25, 2011)

photosoto said:


> 2332 Westcott 43 inch Collapsible Umbrella Flash Kit #2332 with 8' Light Stand
> 
> Oops here is the kit


 

For about 30 more dollars you can get this:
Impact Digital Flash Umbrella Mount Kit B&H Photo Video

the umbrella's are only 32 inch but you could pick up a large umbrella for about 10 to 14 bucks...


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## photosoto (Jan 25, 2011)

ok, I was browsing thru the thread below and have a question on the pic on post #14...  I've read repeatedly that you need a bigger size umbrella if you are going to do more than a head shot; but the smaller looking softbox Tee used on the first photo yielded great lighting results.  Is the scenario the same for umbrellas?  Do I really need to get bigger umbrellas?  

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/beyond-basics/225858-strobist-post-your-photos-setups.html


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## ghache (Jan 25, 2011)

Ive been testing out the Steve Kaeser umbrella softbox as an alternative of expensive softboxes and i really like the outcomes.

You get a little more control over your lightning with the light softness of a softbox.

its cheap and can be used on any strobes you have.

Steve Kaeser Photographic and Video Lighting

they worth the money.


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## KmH (Jan 25, 2011)

The softbox was very far from the model for soft shadows. You can see how hard the shadows were.

The soft box has to be moved far back to light the full length of the model.

The inverse square law would also apply in that shooting situation necessitating move light output at the softbox.

Tee also should have turned the light stand 180° to make it more stable (a light stand leg directly under the softbox rather than directly behind it.)


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## mike3767 (Jan 25, 2011)

Google cowboystudio and you will find some cost effective equipment.


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## D-B-J (Jan 25, 2011)

HelenOster said:


> D-B-J said:
> 
> 
> > .......I can vouch for adorama brand, as i use all their flashpoint "noname" stuff and its working GREAT so far.......
> ...


 

Very welcome.

Regards,
Jake


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## Derrel (Jan 25, 2011)

I use the Lastolite Umbrella Box quite a bit. It's a high-quality umbrella with a very nice quality of the light, mostly due I think to design and to the materials used to make it. I have tried the Steve Kaeser knock-offs...much cheaper design, and not quite the same level of light quality. "Different".

The Lastolite Umbrella Boxes have 100 percent opaque black backings an dull, matte white interiors....the Kaeser ones have silvery-colored interiors and thinner diffusion material over the front. The quality, the look of the light, is not the same.

Annie Liebovitz uses the Lastolite's chief name-brand competitor all the time. So, you've probably seen a lot of celebrity portraiture and advertising shot with umbrella boxes. What I like about them over conventional umbrellas is that they set up FAST, and they keep ambient spill MUCH more under control than reflecting umbrellas, and do not create the soft,hazy,ugly light that shoot through umbrellas can create in smaller spaces when used with higher levels of flash power. When you need to use 300, to 1200 watt-seconds through one flash head, a shoot-through umbrella will be sending 40% of he light out through the front and 60% is blown back the opposite way, which in many spaces creates its own "fill" lighting, and causes a sickly, ugly look to the light.

The Lastolite Umbrella Box works on double diffusion: the umbrella, and the front panel causes the light to be diffused TWICE...this is not the way a shoot-through or reflecting umbrella works, so the lighting quality of a quality reflecting/enclosed Lastolite Umbrella Box is different from a conventional umbrella, and also different from the el-cheapo "Brolly box" things Paul C. Buff sells, which are just a cheap shoot-through umbrella with a black backing over the back side.


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## kundalini (Jan 25, 2011)

Derrel said:


> The Lastolite Umbrella Boxes .......


Are you refering to the 8-in-1?


Using the 8 in 1 Umbrella « Lastolite School of Photography


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## Derrel (Jan 25, 2011)

No, I've been referring to the 40 inch Lastolite Umbrella Box, the original model. It was used quite a bit by the founder of the dg28.com web site, whose site is, I think, the one the stobist blog spot was coined after.

LU3227 Lastolite 40" White Umbrella Box with 7mm Shaft.

The umbrella boxes that Annie Liebovitz uses so often are the Photek Softlighter models, like this one
SL5000 Photek Softlighter II, 46" Umbrella with Diffuser.


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## dallasimagery (Jan 25, 2011)

I prefer bounce umbrellas. I like sotboxes too though, but umbrellas are so fast and easy to move around and set up


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## photosoto (Jan 26, 2011)

Derrel said:


> No, I've been referring to the 40 inch Lastolite Umbrella Box, the original model. It was used quite a bit by the founder of the dg28.com web site, whose site is, I think, the one the stobist blog spot was coined after.
> 
> LU3227 Lastolite 40" White Umbrella Box with 7mm Shaft.
> 
> ...




Derrell, I am interested in this style umbrella box because of the quality light I THINK it has.  Have you used any other style diffusers to compare them to?; also, being priced basically the same, do you think either has advantages over the other?


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## ghache (Jan 26, 2011)

Derrel said:


> No, I've been referring to the 40 inch Lastolite Umbrella Box, the original model. It was used quite a bit by the founder of the dg28.com web site, whose site is, I think, the one the stobist blog spot was coined after.
> 
> LU3227 Lastolite 40" White Umbrella Box with 7mm Shaft.
> 
> ...


 

I am so impressed with the keaser umbrella box over a regular umbrella that i might give these a try for sure. for the price, portability, its really hard to beat.


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## Derrel (Jan 26, 2011)

photosoto said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> > No, I've been referring to the 40 inch Lastolite Umbrella Box, the original model. It was used quite a bit by the founder of the dg28.com web site, whose site is, I think, the one the stobist blog spot was coined after.
> ...



The Lastolite Umnbrella Box is available in 40 inch ,60 inch, and 80 inch models. They are 8-panel umbrellas and use a 3-zipper front closure, so they can be used with rather larger reflector light heads, like even 8.5 inch reflectors.

I have not used the Photek Softlighter, which has recently gone to a "II" model designation, which now comes with two light discs for use in warming/changing the lighting characteristics. The Softlighter is made up of 10 panels, and so it more-round than most umbrellas.

The Steve Kaeser umbrella boxes are really low-cost, priced at around $36 for TWO 40-inchers, and they use the drawstring front closure system,much like the Photek models use.

This type of enclosed umbrella is much,much more like a softbox than  a reflecting umbrella or a shoot-through,and wha's nice is the way they keep spill light from striking the lens, or hitting the ceiling or walls, and they keep the light ALL going forward, more like a softbox does.


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## photosoto (Jan 26, 2011)

Derrel said:


> photosoto said:
> 
> 
> > Derrel said:
> ...



ok thanks.  I noticed the lastolite is pictured with larger light heads.  I only have a sb600 now and I didn't know if it would have excess opening around my strobe for light to spill out.
Would you recommend any additional lighting diffusers, reflectors, etc. to start out?  (anyone comment as well)


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## KmH (Jan 27, 2011)

mike3767 said:


> Google cowboystudio and you will find some cost effective equipment.


That is mostly lightweight, poorly made junk, so I'm not sure you can call it "cost effective", but you can sure call it cheap.


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