# My kids are super photogenic.



## JerseyJules (Aug 12, 2012)

My kids make for great subjects cause they love their picture taken, especially my daughter. She is so photogenic, I have yet to take a bad picture of her.
View attachment 16673
NJ Guido Fistpump!
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## rexbobcat (Aug 12, 2012)

How would you like us to respond?


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## JerseyJules (Aug 13, 2012)

rexbobcat said:


> How would you like us to respond?


Wow...I can say I have been on several internet forums from guns to cars and this one has by far the most cocky,arrogant and ignorant responses...I guess its just the "type" or privileged little college kids or arrogant artistic type people that get into photography that just have a natural "Im better than you" attitude.   How about you just dont respond hows that? Since obviously mommy didnt teach someone any manners.. . 
I apologize to all for sharing pictures i took on a photography forum..God forbid..


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## Daily (Aug 13, 2012)

Wow your kids so cute ) and i think this picture not bad,Then your daughter must like that picture. 

Your daughter really photogenic.


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## rexbobcat (Aug 13, 2012)

JerseyJules said:
			
		

> Wow...I can say I have been on several internet forums from guns to cars and this one has by far the most cocky,arrogant and ignorant responses...I guess its just the "type" or privileged little college kids or arrogant artistic type people that get into photography that just have a natural "Im better than you" attitude.   How about you just dont respond hows that? Since obviously mommy didnt teach someone any manners.. .
> I apologize to all for sharing pictures i took on a photography forum..God forbid..



This coming from the guy who I assume is a self- proclaimed Guido. 

Look, your kids are cute. But you didn't say whether you wanted us to give you criticism or what...

This is the Internet. We don't care about scrapbook photos of your children.

Like many have said before, this forum does not like to coddle. How am I arrogant if I just asked you what you want from us? You're the one who said that you've never taken a bad photo of your daughter, so who exactly is being arrogant.

Unless your photos have some sort of technical photographic deliberation beyond "aww what a cute kid", then frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.

Giving a shout out to all the privileged little college kids! 

PS: judging by these photos, almost every regular poster here is better than you at photography. It's not just an attitude, it's a fact. Unless you have some quality photographs that you haven't shown us yet.

PSS: I never insinuated that I was better than you. I wasn't being a pretentious ass. I was just curious whether you wanted to be given the pampered response that I would give my 9 year old niece, or I'd you wanted to here something that's closer to the truth. Maybe I was a little bit sarcastic, so I'm sorry if you got the wrong message from my post. 

But since you got all defensive, well, I'm going you my opinion in a less-than-polite form.

Good luck taking snapshots of your kids. I'm sure everyone on Facebook loves them.


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## PhotoWrangler (Aug 13, 2012)

JerseyJules said:


> Wow...I can say I have been on several internet forums from guns to cars and this one has by far the most cocky,arrogant and ignorant responses...I guess its just the "type" or privileged little college kids or arrogant artistic type people that get into photography that just have a natural "Im better than you" attitude.   How about you just dont respond hows that? Since obviously mommy didnt teach someone any manners.. .
> I apologize to all for sharing pictures i took on a photography forum..God forbid..




What the hell do you think is going to happen when you post bad, over-processed snapshots of kids with ho-hum expressions, of who you show bias for to begin with?


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## JerseyJules (Aug 13, 2012)

rexbobcat said:


> JerseyJules said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You know exactly what you meant with your sarcastic comment, and it was unwelcome and uncalled for. I posted pictures and joined this site to learn how to better take photographs as a hobby. Im not even an amateur photographer and have ZERO training or knowledge of the topic, I simply take pictures of what i think looks cool. Photography is probably the single most  interpretive form of art there is. So if you think your photos are so great, Im glad for you...I took these with zero schooling, and an entry level Nikon Camera and guess what, they look good to me..

Your such an expert troll, then please feel free to critique these photos and how you would go about taking them better or more interpretive...


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## Majeed Badizadegan (Aug 13, 2012)

JerseyJules said:


> My kids make for great subjects cause they love their picture taken, especially my daughter. She is so photogenic, I have yet to take a bad picture of her.



You're posting to a photography forum filled with photographers ranging from novice to full-time pro. Don't you find it a tad _presumptuous _to think that you've never taken a "bad" picture of your daughter. Perhaps what you believe is "good", others might find bad. Given your response to Rexbobcat, where he asked you an extremely simple question "How would you like us to respond?" and you going bat @#$! crazy on him, I'm going to assume you want to learn why these pictures aren't "good" to the trained eye. 



JerseyJules said:


> View attachment 16673
> NJ Guido Fistpump!



*Fine expressions. Car in background shows carelessness in composing. Vignette is too strong.  Feet are cut off but there's plenty of space above the heads. *



JerseyJules said:


> View attachment 16674



*A bit over-saturated. Patches of sky are blown out. Expressions aren't the best. But an okay shot besides that, a good memory shot. *



JerseyJules said:


> View attachment 16675



*Poor use of compositional space. Lot's of negative space to the right while you cut off your main subject at the helmet. Also, the sidewalk is very far blown.*



JerseyJules said:


> View attachment 16676



*A technically sound shot, but the expression leaves me wondering. He's also looking slightly camera left. Lot's of negative space around either side, not sure if this was a conscious composition choice, but perhaps we'd have more context for the expression with a portrait shot with the subject filling the frame. *



JerseyJules said:


> View attachment 16677



*Decent flash exposure, but bordering on harsh. Very distracting green box behind your subject. Hair in her face. Faux depth of field or blur is evidenced below her right shoulder which looks bad. *


So, JerseyJules, in my estimate, your earlier claim "She is so photogenic, I have yet to take a bad picture of her" is false. Given that you've provided us with five flawed images, that I would say are "bad". Now, Mom and Dad and Facebook friends may disagree. 

But know your audience. You're on a "photography" forum and you're going to hear the truth about your pictures here. 

If I were you, I'd drop your piss-poor attitude and try to learn a thing or two.


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## JerseyJules (Aug 13, 2012)

ChristopherCoy said:


> What the hell do you think is going to happen when you post bad, over-processed snapshots of kids with ho-hum expressions, of who you show bias for to begin with?



Like I said, Photography is interpretive to begin with. Technical aspects aside, what you thinks looks good or is a great photo, others might not think the same. Like I said I have Zero training or schooling and do it as a hobby. Over processed, sure..So what..I have seen plenty of professional photographs that IMHO look like crap, I happen to like the look of processed photos. It might not be technically proper or within the laws or guidelines of photography, but I really dont care. I like the way my photos look and thats all that matters really....


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## rexbobcat (Aug 13, 2012)

JerseyJules said:
			
		

> You know exactly what you meant with your sarcastic comment, and it was unwelcome and uncalled for. I posted pictures and joined this site to learn how to better take photographs as a hobby. Im not even an amateur photographer and have ZERO training or knowledge of the topic, I simply take pictures of what i think looks cool. Photography is probably the single most  interpretive form of art there is. So if you think your photos are so great, Im glad for you...I took these with zero schooling, and an entry level Nikon Camera and guess what, they look good to me..
> 
> Your such an expert troll, then please feel free to critique these photos and how you would go about taking them better or more interpretive...



"I don't like your opinion, so you must be a troll."

You must be new to the Internet.



If I gave you honest critique right off the bat then you'd think I was trolling as well. 

I can give you the critique you request in the morning. I'm on my phone and there's a lot to be said, so it'll have to wait.

Why do I even post in threads like this? I should know by now that I'm horrible at kiss-ass

Anyways - I'm going to bed. Have fun being ignorant!


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## PhotoWrangler (Aug 13, 2012)

JerseyJules said:


> ...but I really dont care.  I like the way my photos look and thats all that matters really....




Then don't ***** when people say they suck. Take your toys and go play by yourself.


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## JerseyJules (Aug 13, 2012)

Rotanimod said:


> JerseyJules said:
> 
> 
> > My kids make for great subjects cause they love their picture taken, especially my daughter. She is so photogenic, I have yet to take a bad picture of her.
> ...



Your use of quotes was very hard to read, but I deciphered it. Thanks for the tips and critique. What i meant by never took a bad shot of her, is that she photographs well no matter what she is doing, I.E. very photogenic. Where most people when caught off guard, have their mouths wide open or eyes rolled back, she always looks visually perfect IMHO. I was not referring to the quote on quote, technical aspect of the photos. Like I said, I have ZERO training other than trial and error and really shoot what I like and that's all that matters since photography is subjective. And what I mean by that is for example, if a super famous professional photographer made photos that differed from  what is supposed to be technically proper photography, might be considered by some genius. 

At any rate, thank you for the critique of the photos, I will keep your advice in mind in the future.


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## Derrel (Aug 13, 2012)

Hey, who can help me out? How do I make that cool "popcorn" icon??? I WANNA' be the guy who posts it before Bitter Jeweler shows up!


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## JerseyJules (Aug 13, 2012)

rexbobcat said:


> JerseyJules said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



wrong, had you critiqued them right off the bat, it would be welcomed criticism. Your comment just made you sound like a dick. I joined this site to learn how to take better pictures for my self, not for anyone else. So if I can improve how the photos look to me, that is all that matters in the end.


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## PhotoWrangler (Aug 13, 2012)

Derrel said:


> Hey, who can help me out? How do I make that cool "popcorn" icon??? I WANNA' be the guy who posts it before Bitter Jeweler shows up!




Right. If she thought we were cocky... she's in for it when HE wakes up! LOL LOL LOL


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## PhotoWrangler (Aug 13, 2012)

JerseyJules said:


> wrong, had you critiqued them right off the bet, it would be welcomed criticism. Your comment just made you sound like a dick. I joined this site to learn how to take better pictures for my self, not for anyone else. So if I can improve how the photos look to me, that is all that matters in the end.




Are all the people in NJ as contradictory as you are? Cause you welcome criticism, but then say that it only matters what you like. If the only thing that matters is what you like... 
THEN WHY ARE YOU HERE???


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## Tuffythepug (Aug 13, 2012)

I'm not a privileged little college kid.  I don't believe I'm a particularly arrogant artistic type.  And I don't think I'm better than you or anyone else.  I'm a 62 year-old man who has been shooting photographs and making an effort to improve as a photographer for well over 40 years.  Your photos are ok.   Just fine for the family album or facebook.   They are well exposed for the most part and in focus.   Let's be honest here... with today's cameras just about anyone can take a "good" picture.   Also, there's not a person here on the forum who doesn't think there son, daughter, grandson, granddaughter is the cutest most photogenic human ever pose for the camera.   

So, when you start out by stating that your kids are superphotogenic;  especially your daughter whom you've never taken a bad picture of..  you better be able to deliver the goods.
I'm sure that your friends and family have told you that you are a fantastic photographer and your kids are sooooo cute.   You won't get that here.   If you want advice on how to improve a photo, or if you need technical advice and constructive criticism there are plenty of knowledgeable people here who would be happy to help you out. 

The first photo I posted here when I joined was one I was very proud of.  It didn't take very long for me to realize that, in the eyes of others on the forum, it could be improved upon.   Ok.   I've learned that this is a good place to get advice and to learn how to improve;  it's not a good place to post pictures and sit back an wait for the pats on the back.
Praise for photos here is rare and hard-earned and certainly not based on whether you can pull off a good snapshot of a cute kid.


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## Jaemie (Aug 13, 2012)

Here's what I see:

#1: playful pose is mildly interesting; missed focus on girl; vignette is gimmicky and distracting; heads are lost in the busy background; car and pillar distract.

#2: aagghh! over-saturated colours; harsh flash on boy's nose; weak, dead-center composition; plain expressions.

#3: girl's face is OOF; uninteresting expression; boy distracts; blown sky.

#4: Good. Dead center might actually work in this case; psychotic expression (sorry) holds my attention well, though rather uncomfortably; nice light. I would PP this in B&W and see how it works. 

#5: harsh flash; distracting background elements; weak, uninteresting composition.

Frankly, #4 is the only one with any real strength. The rest feel like family snapshots that belong in a treasured family photo album.


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## Jaemie (Aug 13, 2012)




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## JoshuaSimPhotography (Aug 13, 2012)

Wow, 10 members are viewing this, must be a cinema!


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## Jaemie (Aug 13, 2012)

Derrel said:


> Hey, who can help me out? How do I make that cool "popcorn" icon??? I WANNA' be the guy who posts it before Bitter Jeweler shows up!



oops - beat you to it!  Just wrap the word popcorn between 2 colons. So, : popcorn : without the spaces.


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## PhotoWrangler (Aug 13, 2012)

Tuffythepug said:


> I'm not a privileged little college kid.  I don't believe I'm a particularly arrogant artistic type.  And I don't think I'm better than you or anyone else.  I'm a 62 year-old man who has been shooting photographs and making an effort to improve as a photographer for well over 40 years.  Your photos are ok.   Just fine for the family album or facebook.   They are well exposed for the most part and in focus.   Let's be honest here... with today's cameras just about anyone can take a "good" picture.   Also, there's not a person here on the forum who doesn't think there son, daughter, grandson, granddaughter is the cutest most photogenic human ever pose for the camera.
> 
> So, when you start out by stating that your kids are superphotogenic;  especially your daughter whom you've never taken a bad picture of..  you better be able to deliver the goods.
> I'm sure that your friends and family have told you that you are a fantastic photographer and your kids are sooooo cute.   You won't get that here.   If you want advice on how to improve a photo, or if you need technical advice and constructive criticism there are plenty of knowledgeable people here who would be happy to help you out.
> ...




Bravo sir! Bravo!


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## topazsol (Aug 13, 2012)

I understand feeling frustrated and annoyed that people in this forum are rude, they really are! But, they are also really helpful while being rude if that makes sense. When I 1st posted here, it was like a trainwreck. Photographers are extremely condescending judgemental people. I find this to be true for people online and in day to day life. I started photographing for a hobby, just something fun and artistic to do. I had no idea basically all other photographers are extremely catty. But I just try to roll with it and don't take it personally and certainly don't let it get you down or stop you! There's a lot to learn on this forum. I was almost chased off by the regulars but then I decided to stick it out and learn something from them. I have seen so much improvement in my photos from trying ideas and listening to tips from this site.

That said, I am not particularly fond of your photos but we all had to start somewhere right?


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## pic_chick (Aug 13, 2012)

ChristopherCoy said:


> Tuffythepug said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not a privileged little college kid.  I don't believe I'm a particularly arrogant artistic type.  And I don't think I'm better than you or anyone else.  I'm a 62 year-old man who has been shooting photographs and making an effort to improve as a photographer for well over 40 years.  Your photos are ok.   Just fine for the family album or facebook.   They are well exposed for the most part and in focus.   Let's be honest here... with today's cameras just about anyone can take a "good" picture.   Also, there's not a person here on the forum who doesn't think there son, daughter, grandson, granddaughter is the cutest most photogenic human ever pose for the camera.
> ...





JoshuaSimPhotography said:


> Wow, 10 members are viewing this, must be a cinema!





Jaemie said:


> Here's what I see:
> 
> #1: playful pose is mildly interesting; missed focus on girl; vignette is gimmicky and distracting; heads are lost in the busy background; car and pillar distract.
> 
> ...





Tuffythepug said:


> I'm not a privileged little college kid.  I don't believe I'm a particularly arrogant artistic type.  And I don't think I'm better than you or anyone else.  I'm a 62 year-old man who has been shooting photographs and making an effort to improve as a photographer for well over 40 years.  Your photos are ok.   Just fine for the family album or facebook.   They are well exposed for the most part and in focus.   Let's be honest here... with today's cameras just about anyone can take a "good" picture.   Also, there's not a person here on the forum who doesn't think there son, daughter, grandson, granddaughter is the cutest most photogenic human ever pose for the camera.
> 
> So, when you start out by stating that your kids are superphotogenic;  especially your daughter whom you've never taken a bad picture of..  you better be able to deliver the goods.
> I'm sure that your friends and family have told you that you are a fantastic photographer and your kids are sooooo cute.   You won't get that here.   If you want advice on how to improve a photo, or if you need technical advice and constructive criticism there are plenty of knowledgeable people here who would be happy to help you out.
> ...





ChristopherCoy said:


> JerseyJules said:
> 
> 
> > wrong, had you critiqued them right off the bet, it would be welcomed criticism. Your comment just made you sound like a dick. I joined this site to learn how to take better pictures for my self, not for anyone else. So if I can improve how the photos look to me, that is all that matters in the end.
> ...


This is why I love this place...Tell it like it is and make me smile in one thread  and now we get popcorn yyyyeeess!!


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## Granddad (Aug 13, 2012)

topazsol said:


> I understand feeling frustrated and annoyed that people in this forum are rude, they really are! But, they are also really helpful while being rude if that makes sense. When I 1st posted here, it was like a trainwreck. Photographers are extremely condescending judgemental people. I find this to be true for people online and in day to day life. I started photographing for a hobby, just something fun and artistic to do. I had no idea basically all other photographers are extremely catty. But I just try to roll with it and don't take it personally and certainly don't let it get you down or stop you! There's a lot to learn on this forum. I was almost chased off by the regulars but then I decided to stick it out and learn something from them. I have seen so much improvement in my photos from trying ideas and listening to tips from this site.
> 
> That said, I am not particularly fond of your photos but we all had to start somewhere right?



All he said was "How would you like us to respond?" 
Any subsequent rudeness by members of this forum* pales* in comparison to rudeness of the OPs answer which lumped everyone on this forum into the category of "privileged little college kids or arrogant artistic type people..." 

OP needs to study basic manners more than photography.


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## mishele (Aug 13, 2012)

Dang, I missed the party.:badangel:


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## cgipson1 (Aug 13, 2012)

Lose the Mommy/Daddy Goggles! They are just kids... like everyone else's kids! Everyone thinks their kids are "SPECIAL" in one way or another! Strangers don't see that.. we just see kids. This is not Facebook, or one of those "Everything is beautiful" BS forums! We try to be honest, and give honest C&C so that people can improve! Even if she was as photogenic as you claim, you obviously lack the skills to capitalize on that. 

We would be happy to assist you with that... and help you learn, but your attitude doesn't bode well. If you decide you do want to learn photography, please stick around.. post shots, get C&C... ask questions! You will learn if you want to. 

I am sure all of your friends and family tell you that your photos are wonderful... that is because they are your friends and family, and / or they don't know any better! WE however, have no predisposition to lie to you, or coddle you.. although I realize that may seem like rudeness since you aren't used to honesty from people that actually do have a clue about photography.

I doubt that you will come back... but I hope you do, to learn! Good luck.


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## Designer (Aug 13, 2012)

JerseyJules said:


> rexbobcat said:
> 
> 
> > How would you like us to respond?
> ...



Hoo-eee!  Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed?  IMO, rexbobcat's question was nothing unusual.  We often ask such a question when we don't know what the OP is looking for.  If you had joined earlier and read some of these threads you might have known that.  You also might have known that the best way to post for comment is to clearly state what you did, what you would like to receive in the way of comment, space out the images and number them,  indicate what post-processing you have performed, what photographic equipment was used, what lighting techniques were used, what was the weather like, etc, etc.  

After having writen all of the above, you don't need to add that you have "yet to take a bad picture of her", that your children are "great subjects cause they love their picture taken", because quite frankly, we have read it all before.

Most newbies don't go off on someone because they somehow feel offended.  If you are genuinely interested in learning the art and craft of photography, keep these guidelines in mind for the next time you wish to post some pictures.


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## JerseyJules (Aug 13, 2012)

So can someone show me an example of a good photo with interesting background and good composition? I learn better from example then explanation.


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## jake337 (Aug 13, 2012)

JerseyJules said:


> So can someone show me an example of a good photo with interesting background and good composition? I learn better from example then explanation.




Check out 1x.com - In Pursuit of the Sublime and go to the portrait section......


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## jake337 (Aug 13, 2012)

JerseyJules said:


> So can someone show me an example of a good photo with interesting background and good composition? I learn better from example then explanation.




http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...lla-one-gel-one-reflector-girls-portrait.html


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## jake337 (Aug 13, 2012)

Just so you know.  There are no such thing as photogenic people, only photographers who understand how to create a flattering images of their subject.


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## SoonerBJJ (Aug 13, 2012)

JerseyJules said:


> So can someone show me an example of a good photo with interesting background and good composition? I learn better from example then explanation.



Have you put even the least bit of effort into finding this out for yourself?  It doesn't take long to figure out around here who has discerning eyes and gives valid critiques and who blows smoke and hasn't an F'n clue.  Look at other threads.  Evaluate the images by your own eye then see what others have to say.  Look at the work of good photographers in your genre.  Analyze composition, technique and processing to understand why the good images "work."

You keep reminding us that you don't have any "training or knowledge."  Well, I would guess most of us don't have any formal training but we are constantly seeking new knowledge.  You are either willing to tackle that... or you aren't.  If you aren't willing to put in the work, and take your lumps with C&C, then your images will probably always suck.

Go look at photographs... good ones and bad ones.  Figure out what makes them good and bad.  Study composition and the technical side of photography.  Then practice, practice, practice.


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## jake337 (Aug 13, 2012)

children portraits - Flickr: Search


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## MWC2 (Aug 13, 2012)

JerseyJules, while I understand how you feel hurt that you didn't get the response you were thinking you were going to get (praise), you have to understand that this is group of photographers (newbies and seasoned pros) they look at pictures differently than family and friends will.  You pictures are wonderful snapshots of your children, you captured wonderful memories.  Technically there are more than a few issues, if you are wanting to improve, listen to those that offer help.  Do not come off as uppity, snotty or full of oneself because believe me there is always someone here that will knock you down a peg or two.

When I posted my first image here, I thought I rocked the world, I mean why wouldn't I?  My family and friends were telling me I was great!  Looking back I can't believe I thought I was a "natural" at photography.  I've been here over a year, I read a ton, learn even more and post an image for C&C every now and again and you know what?  I'm still no where close to being half way as good as I thought I was when I first posted here.  

You have cute children, they seem to like being infront of the camera.  Use that to your advantage, practice as much as you can.  I don't know what your goals with photography are, they might be as simple as mine.  To take the best possible family pictures I can or you might be more loafty and have your eyes set on becoming a professional, either way the people on this forum will help you reach those goals.  You just have to open yourself up to the help they offer.  They might not deliver the message in the nicest way (no sugar coating it) but they will more than willing to guide you in the right direction.  You just have to be nicer in your delivery of your questions.  No one wants to help a sore apple.


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## Jaemie (Aug 13, 2012)

Here's an exceptionally good photo by Alfie Goodrich, one of my favourite professional photographers. Yes, it's of a famous person, Yoko Ono-Lennon, but he managed to coax a very expressive and revealing side of her and capture it beautifully. The light in her eyes is wonderful, and she's clearly a little uncomfortable that her defensive props (hat and dark glasses) have become useless before the photographer's lens.

http://japanorama.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/lennon_ono/ag_bbc_beatles_ono_0001.jpg

Here's the story behind the photo: http://japanorama.co.uk/2008/12/10/yoko-ono-in-tokyo-john-lennon-museum-beatles-tribute-band/


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## seakritter (Aug 13, 2012)

MWC2 said:
			
		

> JerseyJules, while I understand how you feel hurt that you didn't get the response you were thinking you were going to get (praise), you have to understand that this is group of photographers (newbies and seasoned pros) they look at pictures differently than family and friends will.  You pictures are wonderful snapshots of your children, you captured wonderful memories.  Technically there are more than a few issues, if you are wanting to improve, listen to those that offer help.  Do not come off as uppity, snotty or full of oneself because believe me there is always someone here that will knock you down a peg or two.
> 
> When I posted my first image here, I thought I rocked the world, I mean why wouldn't I?  My family and friends were telling me I was great!  Looking back I can't believe I thought I was a "natural" at photography.  I've been here over a year, I read a ton, learn even more and post an image for C&C every now and again and you know what?  I'm still no where close to being half way as good as I thought I was when I first posted here.
> 
> You have cute children, they seem to like being infront of the camera.  Use that to your advantage, practice as much as you can.  I don't know what your goals with photography are, they might be as simple as mine.  To take the best possible family pictures I can or you might be more loafty and have your eyes set on becoming a professional, either way the people on this forum will help you reach those goals.  You just have to open yourself up to the help they offer.  They might not deliver the message in the nicest way (no sugar coating it) but they will more than willing to guide you in the right direction.  You just have to be nicer in your delivery of your questions.  No one wants to help a sore apple.



Well said cheers

"As I Wander"


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## Photographiend (Aug 13, 2012)

Jules - Yes, you will run into a lot of egos here. I am new here too and I noticed the same thing right away. But, what you have to ask yourself is "Does the Talent match the Ego?" There are some very talented photographers in this form. Some of which took the time to give you some valuable critique. And when it is coming from someone who knows their way around a good shot you just have to be willing to take your lumps. 

I am envious of you out of the sheer number of them you have piling up with feedback!

You have an opportunity to learn and grow from this experience. But, speaking as a fellow amateur, the ego you are caring around just isn't justified by the quality of your work.


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## jake337 (Aug 13, 2012)

MWC2 said:


> JerseyJules, while I understand how you feel hurt that you didn't get the response you were thinking you were going to get (praise), you have to understand that this is group of photographers (newbies and seasoned pros) they look at pictures differently than family and friends will.  You pictures are wonderful snapshots of your children, you captured wonderful memories.  Technically there are more than a few issues, if you are wanting to improve, listen to those that offer help.  Do not come off as uppity, snotty or full of oneself because believe me there is always someone here that will knock you down a peg or two.
> 
> When I posted my first image here, I thought I rocked the world, I mean why wouldn't I?  My family and friends were telling me I was great!  Looking back I can't believe I thought I was a "natural" at photography.  I've been here over a year, I read a ton, learn even more and post an image for C&C every now and again and you know what?  I'm still no where close to being half way as good as I thought I was when I first posted here.
> 
> You have cute children, they seem to like being infront of the camera.  Use that to your advantage, practice as much as you can.  I don't know what your goals with photography are, they might be as simple as mine.  To take the best possible family pictures I can or you might be more loafty and have your eyes set on becoming a professional, either way the people on this forum will help you reach those goals.  You just have to open yourself up to the help they offer.  They might not deliver the message in the nicest way (no sugar coating it) but they will more than willing to guide you in the right direction.  You just have to be nicer in your delivery of your questions.  No one wants to help a sore apple.



Exactly!  Obviously you have adorable children, who doesn't?  But we are not looking at your children.  We are looking at how you chose to flatter them in the image, how you composed the image, how you lit your subjects, how you post processed the image, etc.  These things are not easy to do and take a lifetime of practice.  Even seasoned professionals will tell you they are still learning everyday.

So please do not take anything anyone said the wrong way.


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## Derrel (Aug 13, 2012)

JerseyJules said:


> So can someone show me an example of a good photo with interesting background and good composition? I learn better from example then explanation.



These three photos show the type of simplicity and singleness of purpose that I strive for when taking *family snaps*. Not that these are "great" photos, but as family snaps, I think these three shots are pretty decent. Each one has a clear subject that is sharp, and has a very simple background that does not distract from the subject. The subjects are easy to "see", although I will admit that the processing in the last shot, the one of my wife's little nephew on the jungle gym is NOT very good...I shot that back in 2002 with the original Nikon D1, in JPEG mode most likely, and didn't know how to process digital images very well a decade ago. That kid is now thinking of attending Harvard University this fall! zOMG...I STILL think of him as this, a gap-toothed little boy!






"Look! I drew myself!" she said. SOooo cute!


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## pgriz (Aug 13, 2012)

Those of us who have kids, have the cutest kids in the world.  We never tire of looking at pictures of OUR kids, or grandkids.  That's normal.  And when these kind of images are posted in forums (like facebook) where most people actually know us and the kids, then of course everyone will say they are wonderful (or they will be unfriended in a microsecond).  

Then, there are photographs shown to complete strangers.  Strangers have no emotional attachment to the kids.  Those strangers who have their own kids will KNOW that their are much more photogenic and cute and just better people than your kids.  So any statement saying that one's own kids are wonderful will be immediately discounted.  Even if true. 

Photographs shown to strangers on a photography forum, this or most others, will be assessed first as "photographs".  That is the nature of a photography forum.  The only thing that matters is whether the image stands up on its own.  A crappy image taken by a Nobel-Prize and Pulitzer winner, will still be judged to be a crappy image if it is that.  And since the audience on this forum ranges from wet-behind-the-ears newbies who discovered pictures yesterday, all the way to seasoned professionals with many years of renown publishing experience, you're gonna get a variety of responses.  It helps to know who is doing the commenting, and what they are picking up on.  It helps to spend a bit of time lurking and seeing which posters give good, solid advice, which usually is NOT giftwrapped with a pink ribbon on top. 

So the question is...  JerseyJules - what is your motivation behind posting the images you posted?  If you genuinely want to improve the quality of your images, this is a very good place.  But you then need to see the images as strictly images, subject to being critiqued and commented on.  If you want to play the proud Mom/Dad, then this is not a good place to post, since the vast majority of people here don't know you, and don't know your kids, and won't be approaching your images with the reverence you would like them to feel.


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## Jaemie (Aug 13, 2012)

^^ Nice family photos, Derrel. I'd add that they are well-composed and include no wild special effects or heavy PP.


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## seakritter (Aug 13, 2012)

JerseyJules, look at it this way if no one comments that's bad, I take that to mean that either there is not any worth looking at or no one cares about your work enough to comment on it, so stiff up lip and pull back the on the bridle of the ego horse just a bit.

"As I Wander"


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## jake337 (Aug 13, 2012)

This is one of my favorite photographs I've taken of my son.  But when looking at it from a photographers point of view I see the headlights of the cars, a tree growing out of his head, uneven background lighting going through his face, etc.  A great family snap that's printed out 20x30 above out TV but not the best when in comes to composition.





​Another one of my favorites.  But again looking in from the outside his hair is lost in the background, he is chewing on a spoon, the print on his shirt is distracting.






​Another one I love.  But his eyes are shut, highlights are blown out in the face and clothes.







​

Ya just gotta take off the "mommy and daddy" goggles and look at what you're creating from an outsiders perspective.


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## SoonerBJJ (Aug 13, 2012)

As one who enjoys shooting my own kids around the house, I really appreciate those spontaneous environmental shots.  The background will never have the manicured look of a studio shoot and it is inevitable that there will always be clothes lying on that chair in the background.  Lighting will often be suboptimal.  You can mitigate those things beyond your control by perfecting those that are within your control.  In my opinion, that is where technical proficiency becomes imperative.  You must know how to work your camera, i.e. perfect focus, appropriate use of DOF, etc. 

For instance, I love Derrel's #1 above.  You can feel the spontaneity of the moment and IMO it is technically good enough that I don't even notice the technique... if that makes sense.  Contrast that with your own.  I actually like #4 for the same reasons given above.  The rest of them have major technical or compositional flaws that are distracting enough that I wouldn't give them a second look if they weren't my own kid.  Derrel's #1 and your #4 get my attention enough to give them a second look and a moment out of my day to consider what's happening in the image.  IMHO that's all you can ask of a complete stranger that has no emotional connection to the child in the image.  Just my .02


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## kundalini (Aug 13, 2012)

Recipe for recovery to the OP:
One generous portion of *Humble Pie* while you're spending *30 Days in the Hole*. Lurk around and see how others have faired with your current attitude. Perhaps you can wake up from this haze and after a strong cup of *Black Coffee*, you can come out and declare that *I Don't Need No Doctor*. Otherwise, it could really become *Hot 'N' Nasty*.

Just my 2¢.

And TBH, you posted snapshots of your kids.  Touching, but.......


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## Granddad (Aug 13, 2012)

I should try being uber confident and aggressive; this dude has got more feedback to one post than I got in all my threads. I guess mine don't have the  factor.


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## LaFoto (Aug 13, 2012)

Granddad, I was thinking sooo very much the same!!!


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## pgriz (Aug 13, 2012)

Granddad said:


> I should try being uber confident and aggressive; this dude has got more feedback to one post than I got in all my threads. I guess mine don't have the  factor.



Them's called "supernova".  Personally, I'd take the slow burn any day.  Live longer, enjoy more.


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## JerseyJules (Aug 13, 2012)

Jaemie said:


> Here's an exceptionally good photo by Alfie Goodrich, one of my favourite professional photographers. Yes, it's of a famous person, Yoko Ono-Lennon, but he managed to coax a very expressive and revealing side of her and capture it beautifully. The light in her eyes is wonderful, and she's clearly a little uncomfortable that her defensive props (hat and dark glasses) have become useless before the photographer's lens.
> 
> http://japanorama.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/lennon_ono/ag_bbc_beatles_ono_0001.jpg
> 
> Here's the story behind the photo: http://japanorama.co.uk/2008/12/10/yoko-ono-in-tokyo-john-lennon-museum-beatles-tribute-band/



I like that photo and the style of it.


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## JerseyJules (Aug 13, 2012)

jake337 said:


> JerseyJules said:
> 
> 
> > So can someone show me an example of a good photo with interesting background and good composition? I learn better from example then explanation.
> ...



See, this does not impress me nor does it seem interesting to me at all. It looks like a cheap Sears photo with generic pink background to me. Very boring and uninteresting. While you may argue that the photo is "technically perfect" I argue that is just does nothing for me.


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## JerseyJules (Aug 13, 2012)

Photographiend said:


> Jules - Yes, you will run into a lot of egos here. I am new here too and I noticed the same thing right away. But, what you have to ask yourself is "Does the Talent match the Ego?" There are some very talented photographers in this form. Some of which took the time to give you some valuable critique. And when it is coming from someone who knows their way around a good shot you just have to be willing to take your lumps.
> 
> I am envious of you out of the sheer number of them you have piling up with feedback!
> 
> You have an opportunity to learn and grow from this experience. But, speaking as a fellow amateur, the ego you are caring around just isn't justified by the quality of your work.



I agree with you. However is photography not a form of art? The most technically perfect and textbook photographer can still present boring and unimaginative photos. I was under the impression that photography is first and foremost a form of expression of something beautiful. All the photographer is doing is capturing that moment or image to express to others in his own interpretation. You can learn techniques and textbook, but you can not be taught imagination and creativity imho.


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## JerseyJules (Aug 13, 2012)

Derrel said:


> JerseyJules said:
> 
> 
> > So can someone show me an example of a good photo with interesting background and good composition? I learn better from example then explanation.
> ...



See, I like these photos. They tell a story on their own without an explanation. That is what I was under the impression that photography is, telling a 1000 words with just one picture. I especially like #2. Very creative yet simple.


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## Majeed Badizadegan (Aug 13, 2012)

JerseyJules said:


> jake337 said:
> 
> 
> > JerseyJules said:
> ...



Yeah, it _is _technically perfect. And other photographers appreciate technically perfect, because we know what effort goes into producing a real shot like this. Sears photo trains "staff" (I'm not going to call them photographers, because they are shutter clickers) in a week, and they wouldn't know shutter speed or aperture if it slapped them across the face. They are shooting preset camera parameters against preset backgrounds on a fixed-distance vertical pole. 

Now, when someone can go into somebodies HOME (which Derrel did in the case of this shot) and come out with a photo like that, then props to them. They understand studio flash, composition, light, gels, posing and what makes a technically sound picture. Not only that, they understand how to create a pink background _without _Photoshop. They aren't faking it like Sears. It's the real deal.  

 I think your tastes will develop more as you consume more photography. Once you can appreciate, and know how to REPRODUCE what you see in front of you, then (and ONLY then) your own artistic vision and discriminating taste can be applied to create technically sound shots with your own personal twist. 

I think right now you still have a lot to learn. You're welcome to your opinion, but in my estimation, the more you are exposed to good photography, the more that opinion will evolve into appreciating shots like this one.


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## cgipson1 (Aug 13, 2012)

JerseyJules said:


> Photographiend said:
> 
> 
> > Jules - Yes, you will run into a lot of egos here. I am new here too and I noticed the same thing right away. But, what you have to ask yourself is "Does the Talent match the Ego?" There are some very talented photographers in this form. Some of which took the time to give you some valuable critique. And when it is coming from someone who knows their way around a good shot you just have to be willing to take your lumps.
> ...



But you have to have the technical skills, and the book learning.. to be able to capture that imagination and creativity in a meaningful way.. otherwise they are just snapshots. 

Skill without imagination equals technically proficient photos that MAY be boring...

Imagination without skill equals Bad photos that don't show the imaginations desire....


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## JerseyJules (Aug 13, 2012)

Rotanimod said:


> JerseyJules said:
> 
> 
> > jake337 said:
> ...



I personally dont like staged photos. I personally would rather spend the time learning how to catch a spontaneous  moment in more of a technically sound fashion in an uncontrolled environment. Im not doubting the level of skill that went into this photo, Im just saying that is not interesting to me and not my goal.


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## jake337 (Aug 13, 2012)

JerseyJules said:


> jake337 said:
> 
> 
> > JerseyJules said:
> ...



So if you were to give someone money for their work you would rather it look like what you posted??


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## LizardKing (Aug 13, 2012)

Man, you've got to have some *serious issues *to grom from here:



rexbobcat said:


> How would you like us to respond?




...to here:




JerseyJules said:


> rexbobcat said:
> 
> 
> > How would you like us to respond?
> ...



I haven't ever said something like this in a forum, but man... Go back to wherever you came from. This forum can be harsh sometimes, but you took it to a whole new level. Definitely not a worthy addition to the fauna we already have here.

Your kids are cute but you're not doing all that great job to show that. Pics are nice, but they're nothing but that: 'pics' or 'snapshots'.

To the rest, I don't undertand why you keep losing your time with all the long posts and detailed explanations... when you have hundreds of other members uploading work and welcoming criticism.
I mean, this right here:


Granddad said:


> I should try being uber confident and aggressive; this dude has got more feedback to one post than I got in all my threads. I guess mine don't have the  factor.


+1


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## jake337 (Aug 13, 2012)

JerseyJules said:


> Rotanimod said:
> 
> 
> > JerseyJules said:
> ...




And there is nothing wrong with wanting to do that either 

but

You need to learn how to crawl before you can run....


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## cgipson1 (Aug 13, 2012)

JerseyJules said:


> jake337 said:
> 
> 
> > JerseyJules said:
> ...



Damn.... I think you are PRO material.. you should hang out a shingle! You obviously know a lot more than the rest of us.....


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## Ballistics (Aug 13, 2012)

Not even a year ago, you didn't have to be so "confident" to receive such extensive critique.

I'm kind of disappointed in the fact that members of this forum are much more worried about teaching people about humility, versus teaching people how to take better pictures.


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## jake337 (Aug 13, 2012)

LizardKing said:


> Man, you've got to have some *serious issues *to grom from here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Your right.  The OP is now on the ignore list.  We should all do the same and let the OP go get coddled somewhere else...


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## cgipson1 (Aug 13, 2012)

Ballistics said:


> Back in the day, you didn't have to be so "confident" to receive such extensive critique.
> 
> I'm kind of disappointed in the fact that members of this forum are much more worried about teaching people about humility, versus teaching people how to take better pictures.



Actually I have given up on trying to teach here at all... just gonna grab some popcorn, and kick back!  (Where is that IGNORE button again? lol!)


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## seakritter (Aug 13, 2012)

cgipson1 said:
			
		

> Damn.... I think you are PRO material.. you should hang out a shingle! You obviously know a lot more than the rest of us.....



Seriously !! Wow every body just jump ship this is a hopeless case, we are pouring water on stone hoping for something to grow, and there is only a blockhead here. Someone we have all wasted way to much time, just ignore her post.

"As I Wander"


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## jaguaraz (Aug 13, 2012)

My regard for so many of you in this forum just skyrocketed after reading this thread.  Your patience, your good advice and your willingness to help anyone is amazing.  I don't need to pile on the OP in this, but sense that getting help in photography is not his goal here.  I love the bluntness and honesty with your critiques and find that people who really seek knowledge are in the right place here.


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## Ballistics (Aug 13, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> Ballistics said:
> 
> 
> > Back in the day, you didn't have to be so "confident" to receive such extensive critique.
> ...



Why would you ignore me? lol.


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## cgipson1 (Aug 13, 2012)

Ballistics said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> > Ballistics said:
> ...



I would never ignore you, buddy! Although I will keep an eye out for the OP's work in NatGeo and Vogue!!! Be there real soon, right?  lol! ::


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## rexbobcat (Aug 13, 2012)

Saying "first and foremost photography is about telling a story" is just an eloquent way of saying that you don't understand the technical aspect of photography enough to implement it.

It's good for a photo to tell a story, but if the aesthetics are boring, or un-appealing then I dot care how magnificent the story is, the photo just isn't that good.

If you want to tell a story with your photos, it had to incorporate both aesthetics and storytelling. Otherwise, it just falls flat.


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## Ballistics (Aug 13, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> Ballistics said:
> 
> 
> > cgipson1 said:
> ...



Ah gotcha. Admittedly, the OP made me smirk so snidely as I read it, and then the explosive response to rex's post made me shake my head, still smirking. But, sooo many posts on this thread. I need to re-think my approach when going for C&C lol.


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## LaFoto (Aug 13, 2012)




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