# Call me crazy....



## JamesD (May 4, 2006)

I'm a film nut, and there's no denying that.  Here's the proof:

I've decided to design and build--from scratch, not from an existing design or kit--my own 4X5 monorail view camera, and I've actually arranged to start on it, perhaps this weekend, or perhaps the next, depending on how the planning goes.  The arts & crafts center here has a wood shop, and one of the technicians is actually a photographer (and a fellow film nut:  she owns an enlarger!) as well, with some experience using view cameras. I told her what I was planning, and after she picked up her jaw, she got moderately excited about the project, and promised to help me out as much as she could.

I've been researching online, and I've come across a couple of designs I think I'll borrow from.  The plan is to incorporate all the standard view camera movements, and also construct two or three, or maybe four, backs, permitting 4 to 6 (or 8) exposures before having to reload.  Then, of course, a back for the ground glass as well.  Since I'll be putting all this effort into it, I'll have to make a padded case for it, too.

There're a bunch of reasons why I've embarked on this project.  For one, it'll be a lot cheaper than buying a "real" one.  For another, I've discovered in the process of working with 4X5 pinhole photography that the extra effort that goes into producing an image (as opposed to 35mm format's zoom-autofocus-click) forces me to make better images.  And, I like working with paper negatives.  And I like the benefits of using sheet film.  And I've been constructing and/or improvising a lot of photography and darkroom accessories lately, and this is sort of an "ultimate project."  And it'll improve my woodworking skills.  And, I think it'll be pretty freaking cool.

So, what do y'all think, am I crazy?


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## ksmattfish (May 4, 2006)

Sounds exciting to me.  Someday I would like to build my own 4x5 or 5x7 field camera from wood and brass.

I have a friend who frankensteined 4 or 5 old cameras into one 6x17 roll film camera that actually works and takes fantastic photographs.


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## terri (May 4, 2006)

I think it'll be pretty freakin' cool, too! :thumbup: 

I'm excited for ya - as time permits, could you show us the work in progress, every now and then?? That would be fun!


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## JamesD (May 4, 2006)

I'll be sure to take a few photographs each time I go in to work on it.  Plus, some of the work will be done around the house, such as the bellows, maybe the darkslides, and perhaps some of the final assembly.

I only have one lens right now, an ancient Kodak of London 150mm job with I forget which shutter.  It's in pretty good condition, and I'm planning to use it until I can get some more modern optics.  But, anyway, I'll be sure to take some pictures with it, too, and post 'em up.

Might be a while, though.


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## ThomThomsk (May 5, 2006)

That's very ambitious! I'm thinking of getting one of the new Bulldog 4x5 camera kits, since all you have to do (and this sounds a lot more straightforward than it probably is) is to push out the pre-cut MDF panels and glue them together. In theory even I could manage that, and it's only £150.

Can someone explain how you use the range of movement on this kind of camera? As I understand it you can move the bellows up and down or left/right, but I can't think what this would achieve.


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## JamesD (May 5, 2006)

Here are a couple of links about view camera movements:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/ansel/sfeature/sf_camera_text_2.html

http://www.toyoview.com/LargeFrmtTech/lgformat.html

You get control over the plane of focus, the perspective, etc.


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## ksmattfish (May 5, 2006)

ThomThomsk said:
			
		

> As I understand it you can move the bellows up and down or left/right, but I can't think what this would achieve.



It's not so much the bellows as being able to move the lens plane and film plane.

Common uses are to make converging lines parallel, and to move the plane of focus or DOF around.

EDIT:  If you've ever adjusted a slide or movie projector trying to get it to be square and level on the screen, it's sort of like that.


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## benhasajeep (May 5, 2006)

I am seriously looking to make an 8x10.  As woodworking happens to be my next favorite hobby to photography.  I am pretty busy until after Aug.  So have not really started anything yet.  Just some searching on the web.


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## ksmattfish (May 5, 2006)

I don't have the skills or tools to start from scratch, at least at this point in my life.  But I'm always on the lookout for my dream fixer-uppers:  a 5x7 field camera, a banquet camera, or a Graflex RB 4x5 SLR.

Has anyone checked out the "Hobo"?  4x5 and 8x10, fixed focus, hand holdable, but the best part to me is that it looks like I could make my own.

http://www.bostick-sullivan.com/Hobo/welcome.htm


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## benhasajeep (May 5, 2006)

That is one of the camera that caught my attention.  I first saw a version on ebay for sale.  At first I didn't think it was real.  So I looked into it.  But for $500 or so, a used 8x10 could be had on ebay.  I really like the idea of an 8x10 p&s though.


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## terri (May 5, 2006)

ksmattfish said:
			
		

> I don't have the skills or tools to start from scratch, at least at this point in my life. But I'm always on the lookout for my dream fixer-uppers: a 5x7 field camera, a banquet camera, or a Graflex RB 4x5 SLR.
> 
> Has anyone checked out the "Hobo"? 4x5 and 8x10, fixed focus, hand holdable, but the best part to me is that it looks like I could make my own.
> 
> http://www.bostick-sullivan.com/Hobo/welcome.htm


 I read about this camera when I was nosing around that site for bromoil chems last year. :thumbup: It looks cool, and takes some great pictures, too.


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## Hertz van Rental (May 5, 2006)

A couple of useful links on photographic DIY here:
http://home.online.no/~gjon/
http://www.xs4all.nl/~wiskerke/html/diy.html

And one completely off-the-wall idea that actually works:
http://www.chemie.unibas.ch/holder/hoovercam/index.html
It might look laughable but it is cheap and cheerful.


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## Torus34 (May 5, 2006)

1. No way would I call you crazy.

2.Please keep us informed as your camera develops [Sorry!]


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## Alpha (May 6, 2006)

An older photographer friend of mine told me that he once knew a guy who built what's arguably one of the world's largest pinhole cameras--out of a van. He tore out the back of the van and sealed up the doors and windows. He would put a gigantic piece of photo paper up against the bulkhead thingy, and from inside the van, he would uncover a hole in the rear door of the van, and huddle into a corner, watching the light hit the paper.


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## Torus34 (May 7, 2006)

The 'Hoovercam' is most ingenious.  Think I'll try a simple variation for 8x10 paper negatives using presswood construction and a surplus anastigmat of 13" or so fl.  A simple stop of about 0.1" diameter [f128] should bring bright sun exposure times into the 15-20 second range while providing sufficient depth of field to eliminate focussing once the paper plane has been optically established.


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## JamesD (May 8, 2006)

As I figured, the project got postponed 'til at least next weekend.  The film back is still giving me a bit of difficulty... I can't seem to find any decent pictures or detailed descriptions of them.  Has anybody got any pictures of one they might have?  Otherwise, I'm probably going to wind up with something completely off the wall.


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## Torus34 (May 8, 2006)

Best way to go is to use slide holders, either single or double-sided.

You'll need to mill a narrow slot for the film and another for the slide.  In addition, you'll need a hinged top with a black-felt-lined slot for the slide.

A neat bit of wood working.  I suggest a stable fine-frain wood such as cherry.


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## JamesD (May 8, 2006)

I was kind of thinking of 4X5 recess in a front plate, with a back plate to keep the film pushed all the way forward, so the film is sandwiched.  The slide, I figured, would go in a slot in front of the film, and I was thinking about making it a type that can't come all the way out, to prevent light-sealing issues.  And it would be double-sided, held together with a couple small screws and wing nuts.

I'll have to draw a diagram of what I'm talking about... but for now, it's bed time.


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## JamesD (May 13, 2006)

So, I started it up today.  Less than ten dollars worth of hardwood for everything except the rail and the clamps which hold the standards to the rail.  And I haven't started on the film back yet.  That's the trickiest part.  The neat thing, thouugh, is that they let you pick up any scraps from other people's projects for free.  That should come in handy, as the folks making the cabinets leave behind lots of goodly-sized pieces of skinny plywood, which I believe shall come in quite handy for the back and the lens board.  All together, I've got fourteen pieces, though they still need joining together.

Next shop session is Tuesday.


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## mysteryscribe (May 20, 2006)

Building and rebuilding cameras is great fun...It can also be addictive.. sorry can't stay have  lens waiting to be butchered...


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## mysteryscribe (May 20, 2006)

Somewhere in this download there is a design for a film holder it is my design so you will have to modify it for your purposes and it isn't very fancy but hell it works

http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=72188 packfilm


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## Semore9 (May 23, 2006)

Spam spam spammity spam!


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## Torus34 (May 24, 2006)

James D: Now you've done it!  Shame on you!

I've ordered a 36mm diameter 350mm fl anastigmat.  I'll stop the puppy down to f128 and mount it, along with a simple slide shutter, in a box of 1/8" thick presswood.  I'll start with paper negatives and see what develops [Sorry!] from there.


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## JamesD (May 24, 2006)

Excuse me while I do the cha-ching motion and exclaim YESSSS!!  And maybe dance a jig.

Welcome to me and Charlie's world.  You're more than welcome to help us explore it over in the Alt Techniques forum.

Paper negatives are fun, and old lenses are fun, and pinhole is fun.  If you have any questions, we'll be more than happy to tell you everything we know, and then some.  And I do mean EVERYTHING and MORE. :mrgreen: 

And... if you're going to use f128, you might try it with no lens, as that's virtually a pinhole aperture itself.  Not sure what the difference will be between with-lens and without-lens, but my guess is that a straight pinhole will be softer.  Ask Charlie over in Alt Tech's; I believe he's done exactly that before.

As for my view camera... this is a four-day weekend coming up, so I may actually get the thing completed!  I'll be so excited!


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## mysteryscribe (Jun 16, 2006)

you are crazy but so am I... 

The difference is the glass lens is sharper someone discribed it as shaping the light.  I expect it keeps the beam tighter till it reaches the focal point which is where the film or paper is placed.

Now tell me I am crazy. there is a revolutionary war encampment tomorrow and sunday.  I have loaded a box of 3x4 carriers and am going to load a box of 2x3 carriers and I'm off to make portraits this time.  I have all the lenses tested and it's an all film day.

Im going to shoot some with my   converted polaroid 160... some with the polaroid 250 with the kodak 4.5 annastigmat lens and even some with the f90 2x3 but those will be still life around the camp.  I have a f128 lens cap for the polaroids.... Well it should be interesting.  This time I am taking only good lenses and film.  This is going to be my best shot at judging retro cameras and lenses.  (this is where the maniacal laugh comes from down the hall)


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## JamesD (Jun 19, 2006)

Good luck, Charlie!  As it happens, I haven't gone back to work on my new camera.  Add it to the list of things I must do.... reflection enlarger, film backlog, print backlog, website updates, WORK, auto repairs and service, housekeeping, writing, posting here, research, study, more WORK, and, naturally, playing Runescape.  It's an addictive little game...


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## Mitica100 (Jun 20, 2006)

The Hoover DIY cam plans are below:

http://home.earthlink.net/~eahoo/camera.html

Good luck with making a LF cam, I've always wanted to do it but never had enough time. Perhaps after retirement?


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