# Invoice from company to build studio (your thoughts?)



## fotolover1 (Apr 30, 2017)

Hey, I am working on building a photo studio complex and this is one of the invoices I received from a dealer. He mostly sells the Broncolor brand. This is a list for a studio that is 5x10 meters. I'm very curious about a second opinion on this invoice. Everything is in euro's but the value isn't much more different from the dollar so I think it'll be around 13.500 USD..


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## Designer (Apr 30, 2017)

He's giving you a discount on everything! 

You might be able to save some money by buying a less expensive brand.


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## N1kon1k (Apr 30, 2017)

As a small business owner ... my best advice to you is to save as much as possible in your first 3 years... starting up is rough and you can/will make costly mistakes... great gear is awesome to have... but try to save some money and focus that portion of the money on social media to get your word out... try YouTube channel ... who knows you my get sponsored or given free gear in the long run... almost anything you buy nowadays it's obsolete in a matter of 2/3 years... so save some money so when you're business is running at a good pace? You can sell you're (old) gear and buy new equipment keeping you up to date and you will also save on taxes because it will be a business expense.... 

I'm not trying to shy you away from anything just giving you my 2 cents from personal experience...


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## fotolover1 (Apr 30, 2017)

Well, thank you for your advice and I will definitely let it sink in but right now I am actually more curious about the products that he has recommended for a 5x10 meter studio. 
Is this a good list of products? Is he trying to oversell and sell me items that I don't really need? I am going for a higher end studio. While I do like Broncolor I am personally convinced
that I can mix some of the listed items with a less expensive brand but almost equal in quality. What is your opinion? How much should I spend on a 5x10 studio in order to attract higher-end clients as well as hobbyists?


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## jcdeboever (Apr 30, 2017)

If you can afford it, why not buy the best equipment to put you in a position for a faster return on investment? Sure, there are probably less costly options but at the end of the day, it's about ROI. Your business plan should clearly spell this out numerically. If you don't have a business plan, you are starting off on the wrong foot and chances to succeed are greatly reduced. 

Is the invoice too much? Who cares? Does it align with your business plan? 

Marketing is huge and should be factored into your business plan. It is as important as your hardware. I assume your skill set is matched by your equipment selection. If your business plan is coming up short on the ROI, look carefully at your marketing strategy. A creative, and strategic marketing plan will drive the quicker ROI. 

In summary, the cost of your equipment is a moot point in a well prepared business / marketing plan for your career path. If the vendor is reputable and professional, the cost should reflect this. Again, if you did your homework and due diligence by creating a solid business plan, you should know that equipment cost should be viewed as ROI. Chase the ROI through a solid business plan. Marketing your skill should be able to drive the quickest return on investment.


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## 480sparky (Apr 30, 2017)

Am I missing something?
YOU are opening a studio, but SOMEONE ELSE is choosing what you should use?


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## zombiesniper (Apr 30, 2017)

It looks as if you could trim back a few things on the list. 
Do you really need a grid for everything? You have more grids than lights. 
$200+ for a reflector? I know people say you get what you pay for but I can paint hard insulation foam for $30 and nobody will know the difference in the photo.
Lights. Will you use all the features that the lights offer? If yes then they are probably a good light. If no, is there a lower model that would better suit your needs?

Now having said the above if you want a "higher end studio" to me that means good quality gear with no DIY stuff so the price to me is what I would expect of a mid to high end studio.


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## fotolover1 (Apr 30, 2017)

That's really nice advice and I'd like to thank you for that. I have thought about a business plan and strategy. My budget for the equipment of the studio is 6000 euro/USD. 
Any suggestions on what I could scrap off that list and replace?


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## fotolover1 (Apr 30, 2017)

Love the input and thinking process right there. Indeed, I am looking to trim off some of the costs as I believe not all of the features are essential and I also have a gut-feeling that the owner of the store is looking at this from a commercial standpoint rather than an educational one. I am not too familiar with the photo industry, I just know plenty of photographers that are looking for a space and I do have a warehouse so that's why I've decided to take on the challenge of building the studios. The reason why I did not immediately mention my budget is because I just wanted people to give me an honest opinion on  the basic requirements of a professional photo studio. 6000 is my budget. I do love Broncolor and would definitely want to use some of their products because it's a great sell to pro-photographers and a strategic marketing move.


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## zombiesniper (Apr 30, 2017)

If you are using this as a space for rent type of studio then you do really care that photographer "X" gets wet over a specific brand? Don't play the brand fanboy game. Get what works. If photographer "X" won't rent your space because you don't have his brand?......He's the type of problem child you don't want.

The name of a light means absolutely nothing. There are a few quite good quality lights under the $1500 a head price range. I'm not saying buy Neewer or Godox gear and expect it to last but research what the pro studios in your area use. You want to balance a quality strobe that can take it's bumps and bruises (since you have no idea the care your clientele will have with the gear) but in turn will not break the bank.

If you want brand suggestions there are some great studio photographers here with a ton more experience than I and hopefully they will chime in with more specific things to look at.


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## Designer (Apr 30, 2017)

480sparky said:


> Am I missing something?
> YOU are opening a studio, but SOMEONE ELSE is choosing what you should use?


It's a proposal.  The term "invoice" is not correct.


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## 480sparky (Apr 30, 2017)

Designer said:


> It's a proposal.  The term "invoice" is not correct.



I guess I misread this part then:



fotolover1 said:


> ........I am actually more curious about the products that he has recommended ..........


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## jcdeboever (Apr 30, 2017)

fotolover1 said:


> That's really nice advice and I'd like to thank you for that. I have thought about a business plan and strategy. My budget for the equipment of the studio is 6000 euro/USD.
> Any suggestions on what I could scrap off that list and replace?


I will let the experts help you with the hardware. I encourage you to develop a business plan prior to any hardware purchase. 

"By failing to prepare, you are preparing to fail.” – Benjamin Franklin


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## Designer (Apr 30, 2017)

fotolover1 said:


> .. I am personally convinced that I can mix some of the listed items with a less expensive brand but almost equal in quality. What is your opinion?


I would purchase all the same light, and I suppose 4 units would be about right, but 800ws for a small studio might be a bit too much, and perhaps needless expense.  If you are renting this space to hobbyists, then purchase a couple of spares because someone will smash one or two by knocking over a light stand.  A less expensive brand that has good color is worth consideration.

I would lean toward the purchase of high quality softboxes, and get all the same make, but for things like scrims and reflectors and posing stools, you can probably make them yourself or purchase less expensive brands.  

For some of the categories, like light stands, I'd bump up the quantity a few.  3 light stands seems like the bare minimum.  

I'd say you need to see a few more proposals, and maybe you should make the selections yourself.


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## tirediron (Apr 30, 2017)

Did you tell this dealer the dimensions of your studio?  If so, drop him and buy eleswhere!


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## table1349 (Apr 30, 2017)

I have never seen a kit that doesn't come with some useful items, some so-so items and some crap.  Did you decide on what was on the list or did the dealer.  If it was the dealer do you know how to use every item on that list and do you actually have a need for every item on the list?


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## Derrel (Apr 30, 2017)

I think you are missing umbrellas, and have only ONE set of grids, a total of three pieces, for the standard reflectors, and have no mylar diffusers and no scrims and no reflective or subtractive fabrics for the scrim panels...you need more grids, like at least two each in 10 and 20 degree grids, for the standard reflectors. You have only four total lights in a MASSIVE studio! You will need TWO lights just to light up a big gray seamless to lift it up to pure white: so you'll be left to light ther entire rest of the set with...two lights. One key light, one fill light...and then..no hair light, no kicker light! There needs to be a bunch oif smaller stuff too: A-clamps, grip arms and heads, a smaller boom stand, and a handful of other types of grip accessories.

Personally: I think that for studio work, monolights are the wrong solution....a pack and head system is better, and more-efficient and costs less. Let's take an older Speedotron 2401 Watt-second black-line power supply system, which I own two idental units of. Each pack can power SIX flash heads on instant-connect cable plug-ins, split into three channels, with 1/3 stop clicks over a three-stop range....so....If I NEED 1200 Watt-seconds, I have that much power--plus, I have 1,200 W-s left over to distrubute through up to as many as five more outlets! If I need SIX lights, each at 400 Wat-seconds, no worries. If I need an 800 W-S and another 800 W-S, I have that...and have another 800 W-S left over, which I could channel through an additional 1,2,3,or 4 flash units!

If I absolutely NEED 2,400 Watt-seconds, I can use one, single flash unit to deliver that much flash power, and then use the second power supply unit to deliver another 2,400 W-S through up to six flash heads....and *flash "Heads" are much less expensive than monolights are.*

Add up the cost of one power pack and six flash heads, and it will be far less than six self-contained BR Siros 800 units. But the real issue comes in the fact that you have just one "type" of expensive, complete, *800 W-s top-end limited flash unit with each monolight*, and it is rather large and heavy: some flash brands like DynaLight, have very small,light flash heads AND offer also some small,light power supplies. Norman has decent pack-and-head systems, as do other brands. Consider just how cosrtly it is to go above 800-Watt-seconds with a monolight system! If you need 1,600 W-s you need two entire monolights! 2,400 Watt-seonconds requires three, entire, complete monolights, synchronized--and HOW do you mount them into a single modifier?

Your studio is a large one: you need to move past the idea of 800 Watt-seconds being the right base power level for each light: that is not the right power size! it is wayyyyyy too expensive for hairlights and accent lights! You WANT the ability to have low-priced, small, plentiful 150- to 200-Watt-second lights, and at least five of them, or better yet, six lights.

Price ranges and outlet numbers vary a LOT: Speedotron makes affordable, 6-outlet and 4-outlet packs; some companioes offer VERY expensive power packs with few outlets for high dollars (Profoto); somne are in-between. Information of studio flash systems can be hard to come by these days. Speedotron just updated their web offereings this year for the first time in a long while. Look into Norman and DynaLight, and other brands through the B&H Photo website.

Consider having a very experienced person help you on an equiupment list.


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## tirediron (Apr 30, 2017)

Your studio is similar in size to mine, and I rarely use more than a total of 400 w/s spread over 2-3 lights (I use a pack and head system as Derrel recommends above).  Rarely, and I do mean RARELY, I have gone to an 800 w/s pack and spread it out over 4-5 lights.  The other big issue IMO is that you're only getting 4 lights on that list.  5 is the bare minimum; key, fill, hair, background and spare.  

You could easily get a MUCH better-suited system for 1/10 the cost.


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## vintagesnaps (Apr 30, 2017)

If you're planning to set up a studio to go into business you should know what you need. If you don't yet it seems like you still have learning to do. 

Why not get some basics to start with? get the items you're familiar with and know you'll use, then go from there.

That's a lot of equipment and a lot of money and  yes you have the budget for it but do you have to spend your entire budget (at least all at once)? I'd get your business plan done before you spend it all on equipment - and then what? How will you find clients and/or market to photographers if you want to rent the studio space? Have you been doing portraits and already have a good reputation as a photographer or just getting started? Lots to consider I think.


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## 480sparky (Apr 30, 2017)

If you're going to rent this studio out, I'd ask potential clients what THEY would like to have available. Nothing will sink your ship faster than not providing what people are willing to pay for.


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## Designer (Apr 30, 2017)

vintagesnaps said:


> If you're planning to set up a studio to go into business you should know what you need. If you don't yet it seems like you still have learning to do.


He has said he is not a photographer.  He is a developer.


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## table1349 (Apr 30, 2017)

Designer said:


> vintagesnaps said:
> 
> 
> > If you're planning to set up a studio to go into business you should know what you need. If you don't yet it seems like you still have learning to do.
> ...


What, and developers don't have to know what it takes to set up a studio if he wants to develop a studio business?


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## Designer (Apr 30, 2017)

gryphonslair99 said:


> Designer said:
> 
> 
> > vintagesnaps said:
> ...


It's pretty obvious that he asked a supplier for their recommendation.  Obvious to me, at least.


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## table1349 (Apr 30, 2017)

Designer said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> > Designer said:
> ...



on Which is scary.  

The guy that built our house knew exactly what materials were needed to construct, equip, and finish our house  since we instructed him on what we wanted.  We  didn't go to some supplier and say "Hey, I'm building a house.  What do I need to build it with."   

As a result I have a house that was built with blue wood and green board drywall in all moisture prone areas that not only resists moisture but mold.  The upstairs bathrooms and kitchen walls as well as the finished lower level were insulated with 2lb foam insulation as it is also moisture and mold resistant.  The house was built with green sheathing so the framing was strengthened with steel brackets and the class 4 roof saves me 24.5% on our home owners insurance.  

When they say "If you build it they will come", only tells part of the story.  They left out the part, "If you build it right, they will come back."


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## Derrel (Apr 30, 2017)

I would also consider what "types" of work you anticipate shooting in this studio. People/family/portraiture would likely have some needed equipment pieces that would be different from what one would likely use for larger products like bicycles or washer/dryer stuff for catalog/circulars/advertisement photos.

Just for the record: brand-new lighting equipment is very expensive. USED lighting equipment of all types (lighting/grip/modifiers) is *very inexpensive*. Your lighting kit here is $13,500; on the used market for hardware, I think this entire setup or something like it could be assembled for wayyyyyyyyyyy fewer Euro.

The four x 800 Watt-second lights at 4,640 Euro...my gosh, that is VERY expensive...much higher a cost than it is worth, in my opinion and it is **just four** light units. ALso, the cost per Watt-second is very high, and the number of lights is so few. What about the need for low-powered accent lights of say 200 Watt-seconds, or 100-Watt-seconds, or even in real-world situations, something in the 25-,50,or even 75-Watt-second range?

Again...the monolight of 800 Watt-seconds is, IMHO, not quite the right "building block" for light units, unless you are shooting large-format film and need small f/stops like f/45,f/64,etc.. We've moved to digital systems where Base ISO is now 100 or so.In MANY close-in situations, an 800 W-s light will need to be turned way,way down, to 1/4, or 1/6. or 1/8 power, or even 1/16 power; this is one reason that lower-powered lights in the 25-,50,75-,100-,150- or 200-Watt-second power range are so useful.

Lighting is MOSTLY about simple ratios of light amounts: 1:2,1:4,1:8, 1:16 and so on. The building blocks are based on base units....and their fractional values....1:1 is full power, 1:2 is half power and one f/stopless; 1:4 is quarter power and two stops less: 1:8 is eighth power and three stops down from max; 1:16 is yet another stop down, and 1:32 power is yet another stop down.

On pack-and-head systems, base power levels start high, like 2,400 Watt-seconds, and go down in simple fractions (and are not "always" equal down-steps!!!) like 2400,1600,1200,800,600,400,200,100,50,25 Watt-seconds. From 2,400 to 25 Watt-seconds is an Eight-Stop power range.

It is possible to buy low-cost packs that fit in easily, like a 2400 pack and a 1200 pack and a 800 pack and a 400 pack. These packs, bought used, are less-expensive than ANY BR800 monolight!!!

I have used Speedotron Black Line  with 2,400 W-s,800 W-s, and 400 Watt-second packs with 102,103,and 202 VF ( *V*ariable *F*ocusing) lamp heads, Speedotron Brown Line packs in 1600, 600,400 and 200 Watt-second size with MW3,MW3U,M90,M11,and M11-Q flash heads, Photogenic Studio Master, Photogenic Porta Master, Norman B-2000 and their LH blower lamp heads, DynaLight M-series pack and head,and in monolights, Alien Bee 400's, Sunpak MS-4000, White Lightning Ultra 3200 and WL Ultra 1600's, and JTL 300 monolights. Those flash systems cover the 1970's to the mid-2000's, some are still currently made. I think you could EASILY buy lower-cost yet comparable, or better, flash gear, for less money.


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## thomsoxon (Sep 27, 2021)

Hello. I hate complicated documentation. With all these taxes, additional deductions and extra charges, it's so hard to understand!


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## Space Face (Sep 27, 2021)

Ah weel, they've had 4 years to work it out.😎


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## Rickbb (Sep 27, 2021)

We should have a contest to see who can revive the oldest thread possible. lol


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## Space Face (Sep 27, 2021)

😁😁


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