# woooo hoooo !!!!!!!!



## naptime (Jan 28, 2012)

yeeeeaaaahhhhh!! whaaaaat???? OhhhKaaayy !!!!!!!


that is all. 

thank you.

Jay


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## LightSpeed (Jan 28, 2012)

Somebody's drinking tonight.
Cheers!

lol


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## naptime (Jan 28, 2012)

oh sorry... forget to mention what all the excitement was about....


just finished filing my taxes...

it's confirmed..

asia and i will enter the digital world in 2 weeks.


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## LightSpeed (Jan 28, 2012)

Good you can buy all my equipment.
It's all brand new.
I'm going D4 already pre ordered.


By the way, I'll drink to that.


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## naptime (Jan 28, 2012)

LightSpeed said:


> Somebody's drinking tonight.
> Cheers!
> 
> lol



this is celebratory news.. i SHOULD pour myself a nice glass of rum! 



they'll be used bodies. and they'll be canons.. but.. they'll be digital !!!!!


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## naptime (Jan 28, 2012)

LightSpeed said:


> Good you can buy all my equipment.
> It's all brand new.
> I'm going D4 already pre ordered.
> 
> ...



i already know your package is out of my budget !

i'm looking at canon bodies with battery & charger.. about 250 each. 

i'm finding bodies for 200, but mostly with no charger or battery. 

i would prefer to get both bodies with battery & charger for 5. our lenses and flashes will migrate.


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## blackrose89 (Jan 28, 2012)

naptime said:


> LightSpeed said:
> 
> 
> > Somebody's drinking tonight.
> ...



I was bouncing off the walls when I found out I was getting mine! Money hasn't come in yet. So next week 

Are you keeping your film cameras or selling them?


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## Josh66 (Jan 28, 2012)

Used is fine.  Often the best way to buy.  A 'pro' body a generation or two old will still usually be better than a new consumer/entry level body.


LOL, I'm spending my refund on film.  (It's not a very big refund - I try to break even every year.)


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## Derrel (Jan 28, 2012)

Right before the big camera makers release the next big thing, a lot of good used gear turns up in actual camera stores.This stuff is often sold on consignment by "motivated" sellers. THIS IS ONE of those times, right now!!!! And will be for the next six to eight months!!! I went to my local pro shop this week, and the Canon and NIkon cases were chock FULL of good, clean used Canon bodies, Canon lenses, Nikon bodies and lenses, and some other fine,fine accessories. They had T1i, 5D, 40D,50D,and 1D-III bodies, and loads of good Nikon stuff too. LOTS of used Canon lenses, from top-level pro to consumer, as well as mid-line stuff also. And a pretty good smattering of Pentax M42 AND K-mount lenses as well.


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## tirediron (Jan 28, 2012)

Used gear is good!  More of my gear has been bought used than new!


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## naptime (Jan 28, 2012)

blackrose89 said:


> naptime said:
> 
> 
> > LightSpeed said:
> ...



definitly keeping the film bodies.

we still have film, so we'll still shoot film. and remember, she'll need it for school.

plus we have all the chemicals and what not for developing.

this has been the plan along. buy film. make sure we are gonna learn it. then switch to digital in february.


have you decided what you are getting?


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## blackrose89 (Jan 28, 2012)

naptime said:


> blackrose89 said:
> 
> 
> > naptime said:
> ...




Yep. Nikon D3100.


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## naptime (Jan 28, 2012)

O|||||||O said:


> Used is fine.  Often the best way to buy.  A 'pro' body a generation or two old will still usually be better than a new consumer/entry level body.
> 
> 
> LOL, I'm spending my refund on film.  (It's not a very big refund - I try to break even every year.)




thats what i would hope for... but i dont seem to be finding deals that great yet on ebay nor craigslist.

i'm still not sure which models are pro and which are entry level.

but i'm finding 250 with charger & battery in bodies like Rebel xt's and 350d's etc...

i'll pay closer attention when money is here. anything i look at today, is going to be gone by then anyway.

my biggest worry is buying something too old, with a lot of exposures, that dies a week later.


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## naptime (Jan 28, 2012)

Derrel said:


> Right before the big camera makers release the next big thing, a lot of good used gear turns up in actual camera stores.This stuff is often sold on consignment by "motivated" sellers. THIS IS ONE of those times, right now!!!! And will be for the next six to eight months!!! I went to my local pro shop this week, and the Canon and NIkon cases were chock FULL of good, clean used Canon bodies, Canon lenses, Nikon bodies and lenses, and some other fine,fine accessories. They had T1i, 5D, 40D,50D,and 1D-III bodies, and loads of good Nikon stuff too. LOTS of used Canon lenses, from top-level pro to consumer, as well as mid-line stuff also. And a pretty good smattering of Pentax M42 AND K-mount lenses as well.



we have a few local camera stores.. i never thought about looking for used in a local store.

when i think used, i think ebay and craigslist...

hmmmmm


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## Josh66 (Jan 28, 2012)

naptime said:


> i'm still not sure which models are pro and which are entry level.


I'm going to assume that you're looking for a Canon so you can share lenses between digital and film.

The fewer digits there are in the model number, the 'more pro'.  Example:  5D > 50D > 500D.

Higher model numbers with the same number of digits are basically just different generations.  Ex-   (old) 300D -> 350D -> 400D -> 450D -> 500D (new)...


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## CCericola (Jan 28, 2012)

Keep your film cameras. You will regret it if you don't. I still miss my Pentax 645


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## naptime (Jan 28, 2012)

CCericola said:


> Keep your film cameras. You will regret it if you don't. I still miss my Pentax 645



keeping them for sure.

that's why we went canon eos, so we would be able to swap lenses to digital bodies.

but the kid will need film next year or school, and the year after for college.

and i'm really happy with these bodies. don't know how they stack up to others. but we really like them, and they are in great shape. so we WILL be keeping them.


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## naptime (Jan 28, 2012)

O|||||||O said:


> naptime said:
> 
> 
> > i'm still not sure which models are pro and which are entry level.
> ...



BAM!!!!

thanks josh.. i was just getting ready to head to wikipedia and try to figure out canons naming conventions so i know what i'm looking at.

you da man


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## Josh66 (Jan 28, 2012)

No problem.  At least Canon's naming conventions are easy to figure out.  I still haven't figured Nikon's naming conventions out, lol!


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## Jeremy Z (Jan 28, 2012)

This sounds very exciting. 

I think you will be glad you have the film bodies when you see that you lose a load of tonal range with jpegs. 

That, or you'll shot raw more...


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## Kerbouchard (Jan 28, 2012)

naptime said:


> O|||||||O said:
> 
> 
> > naptime said:
> ...


You should still look it up.  Canon is very weird about their naming conventions, especially in the U.S.  For instance, he didn't mention the Canon T2i by name, but he did list it by number.  In any case, I'm pretty sure you'll put up a thread when it really comes down to purchasing the item.

Irregardless, congrats on the refund, and I'm glad the upgrade process seems to be going according to plan.  Couldn't have happened to a couple of better people.


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## Josh66 (Jan 28, 2012)

I (and you will notice most online sources) go by Canon's European naming conventions, which are just numbers.  They (sometimes) have different names for the US and Japanese markets...

For example, the 350D is the 350D in Europe, the Rebel XT in North America, and the EOS Kiss in Japan.  They are all the same thing.  You will see this most often on consumer grade bodies.  For example, the 5D is called a 5D everywhere, as far as I know.


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## Derrel (Jan 28, 2012)

I like the Canon naming convention with clear names like Rebel, Rebel XT, Rebel XTi, Rebel Xsi, Rebel T1i, Rebel T2i, Rebel T3i, and Rebel T3 (with no 'i').

Of course, Canon also had a Japanese market name for the SAME model progression: Kiss Digital, Kiss Digital N, Kiss Digital X, Kiss X2, Kiss X3, Kiss X4, Kiss X5, and Kiss x50.

So, eight cameras, and sixteen different names for the eight. Oh, then we need to add the Europe and UK names: 300D,350D,400D,450D,500D,550D,600D,1100D.

So, *eight camera models* from Canon, and *twenty-four different frickin'* names. I mean, how much simpler could naming conventions BE! 

Canon--World Leader in Camera Naming!

Source:Template:Canon DSLR cameras - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## dxqcanada (Jan 28, 2012)

naptime said:


> oh sorry... forget to mention what all the excitement was about....
> 
> 
> just finished filing my taxes...
> ...



Ah, sorry to hear that.


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## Derrel (Jan 28, 2012)

I was shopping this week, and there was a nice, clean Nikon F5 in the case at the pro photo dealer's, and I said to my salesman, "I remember lusting after that camera back when they were $1599, and when $1599 was still a lot of money!" He laughed, as did another salesman..." I continued, "Yeah, I remember when $1599 was almost four months' rent, not just two."

A clean Nikon F5, for $295. MAN!

The other sales guy chimed in, "Hey you could also get that F4 and own 'em both for under five bills!" Yes, they had an F4s for $195. Oh-My-Gosh!!!!!!

That brought to mind a similar conversation I had in the same shop, about a year ago. There was a Canon D30--not 30D, but D30, sitting in the case and priced at $250. The sales guy said, "Yeah, I remember selling these things for $3,000 when they came out...we could hardly keep them in stock!"

Moral of the story: old technology doesn't cost squat these days!!!! Or perhaps, "Buy used, and let some other sucker take the depreciation hit."


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## LightSpeed (Jan 28, 2012)

Hey J,
You'll be ok with a digital............that is, after Asia takes your ass to school,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and gets gounded for embarrassing you a few times along the way.
lmao



*CHEERS!* Yes I am having a few. This may get interesting.
I'm soon to post another down your throat image. lol


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## naptime (Jan 28, 2012)

right now, it's looking like the d30 is what i'm leaning towards. fits our budget nicely.

and if everything i am finding is correct, it will be better than a rebel model.


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## naptime (Jan 28, 2012)

LightSpeed said:


> Hey J,
> You'll be ok with a digital............that is, after Asia takes your ass to school,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and gets gounded for embarrassing you a few times along the way.
> lmao
> 
> ...



and yes. no doubt she's gonna school me!

funny thing is, "I" am the one leading the learning front. how it all works, lighting, shutter, etc.. 

i'm the one doing all the research and then sitting her down and going over it with her.

she hasn't even thought about crackin open her book. and the manul "makes her fall asleep"

so, i have to sit her down and go over stuff with her..


but...

her damned eye.... she has it. i don't. ugghhh


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## cgipson1 (Jan 28, 2012)

naptime said:


> right now, it's looking like the d30 is what i'm leaning towards. fits our budget nicely.
> 
> and if everything i am finding is correct, it will be better than a rebel model.



(I have to be careful what I say here) Think seriously about what you are doing, young padiwan! The force is strong within you.. beware the dark side! lol!


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## LightSpeed (Jan 28, 2012)

I'm gonna give you a little advice here Nappy ole boy.
Once you buy a used camera body that obsolete, you're gonna wish you saved bro.
You're all into this shyt. Just like Rose and look what happened with her. Upgrading less than a month later.
Told her that was gonna happen.

Now I'm telling you.
Get the best you can. Even if you and the brat with the eye have to share it.


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## adversus (Jan 28, 2012)

Lucky you.  I owe about $4k in taxes this year


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## EIngerson (Jan 28, 2012)

Congrats Naptime. I look forward to seeing both of your work with the new gear.


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## naptime (Jan 29, 2012)

LightSpeed said:


> I'm gonna give you a little advice here Nappy ole boy.
> Once you buy a used camera body that obsolete, you're gonna wish you saved bro.
> You're all into this shyt. Just like Rose and look what happened with her. Upgrading less than a month later.
> Told her that was gonna happen.
> ...



sharing is not an option.

she spends half her time with her mom. then one of us would be without. can't do it. lol.

there will be no other option for another camera buy until fall. i have a trip to Lima, Peru to pay for between now and july.


so.. i understand what ya'all are saying... 

so, assuming we have a budget to stick two. and we need to fit two bodies in that budget...

the rebel t1i is entry level, 2009 and 15 mp. certainly in budget.  

the rebel t2i is entry level 2010, and 18 mp. and possibly in budget.

the 30d is midrange, but is 2006 , and 8mp. and in budget.


would it be better to get a newer entry level, versus an older midrange?

a 40d is way out of budget. a 50d is untouchable. and it goes without saying, that pro level is out of range.

and a t3i is out of budget.


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## LightSpeed (Jan 29, 2012)

I'd stick with the newer entry level.
And don't buy into the crap that pixels don't matter.
Pixels do matter. They are the very thing that render the image.
The more you have the larger the print capacity , should you want to print.

The more pixels you have , the better if you crop images and we all do that.
I wouldn't take an older 8MP camera over a newer 18MP camera for various reasons.
Especially from 2006.
Yes you will hear that pixels don't matter. It's a lie.
If it were true no one would want a full frame camera with fatter pixels. Because Pixels don't matter.
There would be no reason to interpolate an image file, because you want to make a larger print and you're short on pixels.
Because Pixels don't matter.
Larger pixels capture more light, thus more detail, hence the full frame camera/sensor.
But that doesn't mater, because pixels don't matter. So that means resolution doesn't matter either.
See where I'm going with this?


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## Overread (Jan 29, 2012)

I honestly don't know the 30D features and performance well enough to give much of a view on it - save to say that I've hardly ever seen any one actually shooting with one. I'm not saying its not a good camera, but I've a feeling it might be lacking some advances which are now even present in the entry level bodies - but that is only a gut feeling not one based upon actual evidence. 


From the bodies you list I'd say go for the t1i - entry level and certainly within budget for you so its not putting pressure on the purchase, plus any cash you can save can be put toward a lens fund (start up a little side bank account and drop a little into it every chance you get to help save for lenses). If you can afford good glass you'll notice a striking difference in what quality you can get from your cameras (digital and film) and the quality will be far far greater than if you're pushing higher and higher spec bodies (and there is also grounds that once the 15MP and greater sensors start appearing, that you need high end glass otherwise performance might degrade due to the density of the pixels on the sensor).


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## unpopular (Jan 29, 2012)

See, naptime's nipping this habit it the bud before she discoveries large format chrome at $3-8/exp


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## Josh66 (Jan 29, 2012)

unpopular said:


> See, naptime's nipping this habit it the bud before she discoveries large format chrome at $3-8/exp


HAHA - I was shopping large format (4x5) cameras today (thinking of alternate uses of my refund) - but then I remembered that my scanner can't scan large format, so I would have to buy a new scanner too.  I think I'll buy an enlarger before that.

My refund is going for a new TV (small one for the bedroom), film, and other small odds & ends like a decent wine decanter.  If possible, I also want to get a tank large enough to do 2 120 rolls at the same time.


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## MLeeK (Jan 29, 2012)

Are you passing out whatever it is you have???


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## MLeeK (Jan 29, 2012)

This is just my opinion... I'd think you'd be better off sharing one GOOD digital camera than buying 2 not so hot digital cameras. Besides that-DON'T ABANDON YOUR FILM!!! It's so worth the education you get out of film!!! 

Oh... and I have a 50D in need of a new home... with 2 chargers, battery grip, 3 batteries, couple of straps and any other odds and ends I find around here that just need to go. Might have an older zoom lens too...


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## pgriz (Jan 29, 2012)

You do realize, I hope, that when you get a big refund, you've effectively loaned the money to the gubermint, and are now getting it back, without any interest or other compensation.  My attitude is that if you can manage it, end up owing a little, instead of waiting for the refund.  Then you've got the use of the money (your pocket, not theirs), and you give them their due upon filing.


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## LightSpeed (Jan 29, 2012)

MLeeK said:


> This is just my opinion... I'd think you'd be better off sharing *one GOOD digital camera* than buying 2 not so hot digital cameras. Besides that-DON'T ABANDON YOUR FILM!!! It's so worth the education you get out of film!!!
> 
> Oh... and I have a 50D in need of a new home... with 2 chargers, battery grip, 3 batteries, couple of straps and any other odds and ends I find around here that just need to go. Might have an older zoom lens too...



Precisely why you should buy my Pentax, instead of her 50D.
lol


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## MLeeK (Jan 29, 2012)

pgriz said:


> You do realize, I hope, that when you get a big refund, you've effectively loaned the money to the gubermint, and are now getting it back, without any interest or other compensation.  My attitude is that if you can manage it, end up owing a little, instead of waiting for the refund.  Then you've got the use of the money (your pocket, not theirs), and you give them their due upon filing.


Now that I have to pay my taxes at the end of the year I've adopted a bit of this philosophy... I put away 1/3 of my gross. The rest is to cover my CODB, COG and paying myself. Seeing how I still have kids at home? I get one hell of a bonus WITH INTEREST every year at this time! It also helps force me to meet benchmark!!!


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## unpopular (Jan 29, 2012)

O|||||||O said:


> unpopular said:
> 
> 
> > See, naptime's nipping this habit it the bud before she discoveries large format chrome at $3-8/exp
> ...



LOL. I was in the same position just the other day. I'm like SWEET! I could totally afford a Sinar F1, I'll get a decent but inexpensive 180mm lens. Figured I was set. Totally forgot about the scanner.

Got a pano head and a macro rail instead. Saved a few hundred!


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## Ronaldo (Jan 29, 2012)

Meh - Peeps gettin excited about the Fed giving you your own money back.

[/political_commentary]


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## naptime (Jan 29, 2012)

pgriz said:


> You do realize, I hope, that when you get a big refund, you've effectively loaned the money to the gubermint, and are now getting it back, without any interest or other compensation.  My attitude is that if you can manage it, end up owing a little, instead of waiting for the refund.  Then you've got the use of the money (your pocket, not theirs), and you give them their due upon filing.



i'm 40 years old. i've been working since i was 15. i understand perfectly well how my income taxes work.

i'm not going to go into the details of why i get a large refund. but i dont sit around waiting for a refund.


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## naptime (Jan 29, 2012)

MLeeK said:


> This is just my opinion... I'd think you'd be better off sharing one GOOD digital camera than buying 2 not so hot digital cameras. Besides that-DON'T ABANDON YOUR FILM!!! It's so worth the education you get out of film!!!
> 
> Oh... and I have a 50D in need of a new home... with 2 chargers, battery grip, 3 batteries, couple of straps and any other odds and ends I find around here that just need to go. Might have an older zoom lens too...



i appreciate your opinion.

as mentioned, sharing is not an option. not for us. 

we do things together, and that means we each have our own. i'm too ocd to share with her. not to mention, as i said, when she is gone at her moms, then one of us will be without. we need to have our own.

i completely understand, and agree with your theory. i just can't apply it to us.


we are *not *abandoning film. 


at this point, until fall, 2 not so hot bodies will have to do. after her trip, then i can worry about upgrading to better bodies one at a time.

but her trip take priority.


right now my plan is going exactly as i have planned it. 

eos film setups at Christmas.
digital bodies in February.
new(or current used) bodies for one of us in the fall, and the other at Christmas.

by Christmas, we'll both have current bodies.

but this month.. whatever two digital bodies we can afford.  after her trip, then i can open up the wallet.


i just want to be perfectly clear that i appreciate, and trust your opinion. i just can't apply it in our situation.


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## naptime (Jan 29, 2012)

LightSpeed said:


> Precisely why you should buy my Pentax, instead of her 50D.
> lol



:thumbdown:  if it doesn't say canon......


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## jaicatalano (Jan 29, 2012)

Wow congrats. You and Asia will have a blast. I wish my taxes were done. Actually I wish I didn't have to pay taxes.


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## unpopular (Jan 29, 2012)

Sharing is a dumb idea.

almost as dumb as not even considering any other brand other than Canon. There are much better entry level options, IMO.


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## naptime (Jan 29, 2012)

Ronaldo said:


> Meh - Peeps gettin excited about the Fed giving you your own money back.
> 
> [/political_commentary]



you probably shouldn't comment on my financial situation unless you know my financial situation.

this is a camera forum. save it for an economic or political forum


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## blackrose89 (Jan 29, 2012)

naptime said:


> Ronaldo said:
> 
> 
> > Meh - Peeps gettin excited about the Fed giving you your own money back.[/political_commentary]
> ...


Yes his finances are his business and no one else's. Yeah they do it together so they really do need two. Also won't she want a digital along with her film when she goes to college? Wouldn't be fun to decide to keeps the camera


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## naptime (Jan 29, 2012)

unpopular said:


> Sharing is a dumb idea.
> 
> almost as dumb as not even considering any other brand other than Canon. There are much better entry level options, IMO.



i actually could care less about canon, nikon, pentax, polaroid, kodak, holga, or any other brand.

what's important to me, is that things we have bought, can be used on the new equipment.

which is why we went with EOS film bodies. so that our lenses and flashes would transfer over to digital bodies. so that we could simply buy bodies and not have to buy complete kits. and of course, when we buy new, quality lenses, they will work on all the bodies.


i don't succumb to the brand wars. though i joke about it with lightspeed.

i don't pretend to think canon is the best there is.

but it fits our budget, and enables us to slowly work our way up to current/new higher quality bodies and glass.


is this the BEST method to get there? probably not. 
would i recommend this method to anyone else? probably not.
is this the smartest method? probably not.

but it is my method. and it allows me to get there at my pace. 

right or wrong, this method has never failed me, in any of my past hobbies.


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## unpopular (Jan 29, 2012)

Take a look at the a700. It's prob one of the better Sony bodies, and is pretty much the Maxxum 7D but with a 12mp sensor. It has a pentaprism, weather sealing, interchangeable focus screens.

I keep debating about getting one myself

Plus you won't feel like this guy







With the word "rebel" stamped on your camera.


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## naptime (Jan 29, 2012)

unpopular said:


> Take a look at the a700. It's prob one of the better Sony bodies, and is pretty much the Maxxum 7D but with a 12mp sensor. It has a pentaprism, weather sealing, interchangeable focus screens.
> 
> I keep debating about getting one myself
> 
> ...



except that it is not in our budget, considering that i would also have to buy a lens for it, since obviously it doesnt take canon lenses. and we'd have to buy a flash for it. so it's not going to take the canon flash.


and personally, i don't feel like that guy just because my camera has rebel stamped on it. 

i'm an adult.  i dont care what's stamped on my camera. as long as it works. it can have hello kitty embossed in the case for all i care.

and i don't wear sleeveless shirts, baseball caps, or smoke.


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## unpopular (Jan 29, 2012)

Oh Naptime. Usually your sense of humor is better than this!

Don't let the politics get you down 

I forgot about lenses. But sony does have a700+kit lens for under or around $500


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## MTVision (Jan 29, 2012)

naptime said:
			
		

> you probably shouldn't comment on my financial situation unless you know my financial situation.
> 
> this is a camera forum. save it for an economic or political forum



I absolutely love getting a tax refund. Who cares if they are giving us our money back?


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## naptime (Jan 29, 2012)

unpopular said:


> Oh Naptime. Usually your sense of humor is better than this!
> 
> Don't let the politics get you down
> 
> I forgot about lenses. But sony does have a700+kit lens for under or around $500



i was trying to be funny. did it come across too dry? 


i went and looked at the a700's after your post. but even used, with a lens puts us out of budget considering we need to get TWO bodies.

just like any other plan. you can't change step 4, without consequences.

we started with eos bodies, knowing that we would upgrade to entry/consumer level digital bodies, and then later upgrade to mid/pro level bodies. and everything being compatible. 


i'm not letting the politics get me down. i put my plan together, and i'll follow it through, while sticking to my budget. all while KNOWING it's not the best way 


and it's funny too. when i was racing or when i was competing, i have always been the guy saying "no, dont get that beginner car, you wont be happy with it, save for another month, and get the mid or pro level car" or "don't buy that 3000 watt amp. wait another three weeks, and get the 5000 watt amp. trust me."

but. i have always been the guy that goes against that advice. even the advice i would give to someone else.

could i wait.. perhaps even just another month, and get better bodies, or even complete kits..

no.

any other person could.

but not me..

my ocd won't allow it.

i made a plan, i have to follow it. there's no way around it. a plan can't be broken.

i wish i could explain just how deep and strong that feeling is. it truly is not an option to break a plan, or share a camera.

it's not about what smarter or better, it's about how the brain works. 

and i KNOW that will cost me money and time in the end..

but it doesn't matter.


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## Ron Evers (Jan 29, 2012)

Derrel said:


> Moral of the story: old technology doesn't cost squat these days!!!! Or perhaps, "Buy used, and let some other sucker take the depreciation hit."



A lot of simple old glass is up to today's bulky auto-focus IS stuff.


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## unpopular (Jan 29, 2012)

naptime - Don't take this as me telling you what to do, but why not get your daughter a nicer DSLR, and you get something like a used XTi or even shoot film until you can afford something better. I think it'd be a nice gesture, plus she's the one with the future, you know


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## naptime (Jan 29, 2012)

unpopular said:


> naptime - Don't take this as me telling you what to do, but why not get your daughter a nicer DSLR, and you get something like a used XTi or even shoot film until you can afford something better. I think it'd be a nice gesture, plus she's the one with the future, you know



i am looking at all options that put us both into a canon digital body.

i am not set on them both being the same.

one can be better than the other. that's fine with me.


and who says i care about HER future!?!?!?


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## unpopular (Jan 29, 2012)

well in that case, buy a mavica and a stack of floppy disks and get yourself a used 5d!

sorry if it has already been discussed, what is your total budget?


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## One2 (Jan 29, 2012)

Congrats. Be sure to post what you end up getting.


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## naptime (Jan 29, 2012)

unpopular said:


> well in that case, buy a mavica and a stack of floppy disks and get yourself a used 5d!
> 
> sorry if it has already been discussed, what is your total budget?




nooooooo  i had a mavica !!!

budget.. i am trying to stay around 600-700. but can possibly stretch a little more.


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## unpopular (Jan 29, 2012)

omg. so did i. 

I used to go out to take pictures with a stack of floppies in TIF mode. One image per floppy disk. It was like using the world's crappiest sheet film camera!


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## Josh66 (Jan 29, 2012)

Is that budget for one camera, or both?


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## naptime (Jan 29, 2012)

O|||||||O said:


> Is that budget for one camera, or both?



both.

i'd be golden if that was each !!!

and that is of course for JUST bodies.

no cases, no hot shoes, no lenses.

preferably with battery and charger.. but if its just bodies, i'm finding batteries and chargers to be relatively cheap .

though i'm not sure how good knock off's are.


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## Josh66 (Jan 29, 2012)

naptime said:


> though i'm not sure how good knock off's are.


I have been using them for a while with no issues.  It seems that a lot of other people here have been as well without issue.


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## LightSpeed (Jan 29, 2012)

O|||||||O said:


> naptime said:
> 
> 
> > though i'm not sure how good knock off's are.
> ...



Yongnuo


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## naptime (Jan 29, 2012)

good, cuz im seeing batteries for between 5 and 10 bucks each and i'm seeing chargers for around 10 bucks as well.


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## blackrose89 (Jan 29, 2012)

naptime said:


> good, cuz im seeing batteries for between 5 and 10 bucks each and i'm seeing chargers for around 10 bucks as well.


So when do you officially get to get them? My money doesn't come until the 7th


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## Overread (Jan 30, 2012)

naptime said:


> eos film setups at Christmas.
> digital bodies in February.
> new(or current used) bodies for one of us in the fall, and the other at Christmas.



If I may I would suggest a slight alteration to your plan:
eos film setups at Christmas.
digital bodies in February.
higher class lenses for one of us in the autumn and the other at Christmas.


Honestly the rebel series that you mentioned being within budget earlier, the t1i (500D in UK talk) is more than capable of some very fine photography. Sure its not cutting edge on features and there are better bodies out there; but when you get round to that slightly larger purchase consider some good glass. Good quality glass, even on a lower end body can deliver some great results:

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4146/4978894089_8059ea1e39_z.jpg
http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4032/4457589479_7c48d9fc98_z.jpg?zz=1

both taken on a 400D and I'm not even that good a photographer (yet). Glass, lighting and understanding (as well as composition) will make bigger gains both short and long term over the bodies.


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## Overread (Jan 30, 2012)

Putting this in a new post because a light just switched on in my head  
There might be some cause to continue with your plan of higher level bodies if you were intending on something like a 5D original (second hand/refurbished). 

You both shoot film and you might well find that the 1.6 crop factor of the rebel series (and all other series cameras outside of the 5D series and select ones of the 1D - and one or two much older bodies) isn't to your liking now that you've already grown used to the fullframe (35mm film) sized way of shooting. 
If you want to make changes in the film/sensor size then I always say that its one of the few cases where you do want to make the change in camera body sooner rather than later.


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## Josh66 (Jan 30, 2012)

Yeah, that's worth mentioning.  I mainly shoot film, but sometimes I'll shoot a little digital.  Every time I do, it takes a while to get used to the crop sensor.  I mean, I have to be like a mile away to use my lenses, lol.


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## naptime (Jan 30, 2012)

i have tried reading about it..

but i still can't make sense of what a crop sensor is, or why? or why it makes it different from a full sensor?

i mean, i understand it's cropped... but does that mean that the image isn't going to show what we see in the viewfinder?


i haven't included lenses in my plan. but my hope is that we can get upgraded lenses sometime in the fall. if not, i would certainly be up for getting glass over a new body, if that's what would yield a better photo.


personally, for me.. i will probably be more than happy with a 450d or 500d

the kid though... eventually, i think she'll be using something much better than that.

she's the one headed off to college and a career. i'm just shooting for fun.


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## Josh66 (Jan 30, 2012)

What you see in the viewfinder is pretty much what you're going to get - but the field of view is much smaller than you would be used to going from full frame (film) to crop sensor.

You put a 50mm lens on your film camera, then try to put it on the crop sensor digital body, and now it's too long.  You have to take like 5 steps back to get the same framing.  Shooting indoors, you can't always take 5 steps back...


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## Overread (Jan 30, 2012)

If she's heading into a career I'm betting its something along the lines of portraits/studio work (not certain as there are many other areas of course) but if that's her line then she'll fast be wanting to put money into lighting gear. One bonus of going to college though is that many will have their own camera gear and studio setups so she should be able to rent some of the gear from them that she needs - she might also get discounts and such through the college at local/chain shops. 


As for crop factor, the image itself will appear in the viewfinder (that is part of what the SLR part of the name means). However if you take a single lens, for arguments sake lets say a 50mm lens, and put it onto a 35mm and then a 1.6 crop camera and, without moving your position (ie distance from subject to camera remains the same) then the shot taken with the 1.6 crop camera will (and this will be visible through the viewfinder as well as on the final photo) appear differently. In comparison it will appear more like a photo taken with an 80mm on the 35mm camera instead of a 50mm (80 being 1.6 times longer than 50).

This is because the crop sensor is smaller than the 35mm and as such captures a smaller part of the image circle made by the lens, the outer areas are simply not seen by the camera at all. As a result the photo appears more "zoomed" in. Note that the photo itself, will still be the same size (pixels are still pixels) when comparing cameras of the same MP rating. 

Note also that, correctly speaking, the focal length hasn't actually changed at all, its the angle of view that has changed as a result of the difference in the size of the recording (sensor/film) area - however in common talk most understand it best by thinking that the crop sensors give a longer focal length view.


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## naptime (Jan 30, 2012)

O|||||||O said:


> What you see in the viewfinder is pretty much what you're going to get - but the field of view is much smaller than you would be used to going from full frame (film) to crop sensor.
> 
> You put a 50mm lens on your film camera, then try to put it on the crop sensor digital body, and now it's too long.  You have to take like 5 steps back to get the same framing.  Shooting indoors, you can't always take 5 steps back...



oh.. not cool..

i'm already complaining because when i want to shoot indoors or when i want to shoot buildings or landscape, i get mad that the 28mm isn't wide enough.

i've been looking at wanting to get something more like an 18 or 14 mm.

heck, i was even looking at the cheapo wide angle (not fisheye) screw on lens to go over the existing lens, like a filter would.

but i figured at 17 bucks, im probably not going to get the results i wanted.

i was happy to see some of the kits i was looking at came with 18-55 instead of the 28-55 i have now..


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## naptime (Jan 30, 2012)

ok. duh.

so the image is cropped when compared to the same image on a 35mm film or a full frame digital? hence, a crop sensor?

let's put it even simpler, to see if my brain is comprehending this....

is it kind of like watching a 6:9 movie on a 4:3 tv without letterbox.. and the sides of the movie are cut off?




as for the little one...

she doesn't know yet what she wants to shoot. animals, landscapes, people, buildings.  she's only been shooting since christmas.

her first school photography class isn't until her senior year (shes a sophmore now) 

she wants to go to school for graphic design and/or photography. 

but she's still got 3 years to make up her mind (and of course i try and lean her towards something more practical like nursing, with photography on the side)

but ultimately it's her choice, and i will support it any which way. 

and, a lot can change in 3 years.

iirc, i THINK she mentioned that she wanted to shoot people. i'm pretty sure we had that conversation, because my response was "hey, just like dad!!" and she said "no, with a camera not a gun" :gah:


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## naptime (Jan 30, 2012)

blackrose89 said:


> naptime said:
> 
> 
> > good, cuz im seeing batteries for between 5 and 10 bucks each and i'm seeing chargers for around 10 bucks as well.
> ...



same here. the 7th or the 8th for my deposit.

and i wont bid or buy anything until money is in hand.

nothing worse than buying something and then for some reason the deposit gets delayed.


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## sm4him (Jan 30, 2012)

naptime said:


> could i wait.. perhaps even just another month, and get better bodies, or even complete kits..
> no.
> any other person could.
> but not me..
> ...



+1
I *knew* there was a reason I like you, naptime. 
I resemble that remark.


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## Dao (Jan 30, 2012)

For 2 digital bodies around $600, I will look for Rebel XTi.  I sold mine about a year ago for $360, so I am sure around $300 (or maybe less) you should be able to get one use.  Just pay attention on the shutter actuations of the camera body. Try not to get one with high mileage.

But it is hard to know about the shutter counts in XTi.  I believe only Canon can read that information on that camera.  If you find a decent XSi (450D), XS (1000D), 40D or 50D, you can use this program to check the shutter actuations.

astrojargon - EOSInfo


As for the shutter life (it is for reference, it doesn't mean the camera will die after passing that number), from what I read on the net, Rebel XTi or earlier models are around 50,000 while the XSi (or newer)and the XXD are 100,000

So a shutter counts of 30,000 means differently between the XTi and XSi.  While one pass half of it shutter life and the other one just around 1/3.

But then again, people reports they shot more then 50,000 times with XTi without problem.  However, it is something to consider.

As for low budget wide angle zoom lens, you can see if you can find the used 19-35mm f 3.5-4.5 AF lens that works in both the Canon digital cropped body as well as your film camera.

I believe the lens is made by Cosina, but you maybe able to find it under different brands such as Tamron, Tokina, Phoenix, Promaster or Vivitar.  Just make sure you get the Canon mount with AF.  

I bought mine used for $75.


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## unpopular (Jan 30, 2012)

naptime said:


> she wants to go to school for graphic design and/or photography.



Photography is much more glamorous than graphic design. Everyone wants to be a graphic artist. They all think they'll be working for some sexy NYC design firm.

They end up laying out real estate advertisements for ten bucks an hour in a smelly newspaper office twelve hours a day.

... nope. not bitter at all.


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## naptime (Jan 30, 2012)

unpopular said:


> naptime said:
> 
> 
> > she wants to go to school for graphic design and/or photography.
> ...



are you having breakfast at burger king? They don't even sell fries this early man !!  


she doesn't even want to work for a big fancy firm, doesn't even know about them yet. 

wants to work for herself like dear ol dad .


my cousin just finished up 4 years at design school. Spent a year running his graphic design company......

and then joined the army and went to airborne school. Because his graphic design wasn't paying his rent. 

now he's in Italy.


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## unpopular (Jan 30, 2012)

naptime said:


> are you having breakfast at burger king? They don't even sell fries this early man !!



I'll have to take the internet from my own cold dead hands! It's a standoff between me and myself! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!

(Lo hasn't called the internetz yet. The account is in her name. But that makes me sound more like a sissyboy.)

I have enough MRE's and Artillery to last a lifetime BIATCHES!!!!!!!!!!


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## belial (Feb 2, 2012)

I would try to go as new as possible and not worry so much about fully new bodies by Xmas. I think the right rebel will do you two for quite sometime. I'm happy with my t1i and find the controls and ISO performance to be all I need and don't plan on upgrading until the body croaks.  Too bad the t1i hasn't come down yet


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## naptime (Feb 2, 2012)

I've decided on 450d/XSi  new enough, and nice enough features. 12mp. Should last us this year or longer. Fits our budget without being too old. 

price will also allow me to get some extra batteries and battery grips.


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## Dao (Feb 2, 2012)

Great!  And one good thing about XSi over XTi is XSi has the Spot Meter!!


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## LightSpeed (Feb 2, 2012)

Fair use.

Sows the difference between a croppy and a full frame.


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## flatflip (Feb 3, 2012)

There are some canon / adorama coupons at dealnews.com . Scroll down to cameras and read the coupon instructions. It changes daily but the coupon is good for a little longer than that. Good sale sight. I have bought through their links several times. 

Have Fun, Mick


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## IByte (Feb 3, 2012)

Sounds like everyone is getting some new accessories for their toys lol.  I have my eye on the 70-300mm for my nikon, perhaps I will invest with some starter lighting equipment.  And thank you Lightspeed for the "KIS" definition of what's the difference between a cropped and a full frame sensor.  Now I know.........


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