# Understanding Art and artistic theory - help!!



## Overread (Sep 18, 2010)

I've recently been trying to learn more of the artistic side of photography as well as art in general and whilst I've come across a lot of terminology its quite clear that the artists are speaking a language that I can't understand.

So does anyone know any books or good references that go into some detail concerning compositional theories such as the Golden Section Rule, Golden Spirals as well as building into understanding concepts like shape, form, lines, etc....

Some of these I understand in very basic theory and others are a total area of confusion for me. Sadly most of what I find for photography is the good old "rule of thirds", but I would like to broaden my options and understanding.


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## ann (Sep 18, 2010)

You might try Michael Freeman's book on compostion. He talks about these things in photo terms, so at least some of the verbage will be familar. And it is a good book


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## XCountryGuy (Sep 18, 2010)

Try looking up the principles and elements of design. There are many variations of the lists on the Interenet, but you will get the ideas. What works visually for drawing and painting will work, compositionally, for photography.
Elements: line, shape, form, texture, colour, space
Principles: balance, movement, emphasis/contrast, repetition/rhythm, proportion, unity/harmony
Each item in the list could be a whole unit of study. For example, movement could refer to compositional movement: leading the viewer's eye, or implied movement: blur trailing behind a fast runner. Rhythm can also create movement because the eye will follow a repeated pattern, especially if it is progressive like a series of fence posts at regular intervals. The trick is to recognize when these things are occurring in our surroundings and make for a good capture.
Great idea to read up on this stuff as it will definitely help your photography compositions. Any foundation art book will provide examples on the above topics.


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## Onion (Sep 18, 2010)

Ask your mentor.


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## c.cloudwalker (Sep 18, 2010)

Have lots to say here but no time right now. I'll be back.


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## Overread (Sep 18, 2010)

Ann - I actually have that book (somewhere) and I've been meaning to give it a proper read (been away through summer so probably left it somewhere in my flat). Thanks for the reminder

XCountryGuy - I will give it a look around but I tend to find it hard to find good midrange level material (either online or in books). What I tend to find is a lot of entry level that manages to have a lot of words that don't say very much or highrange which tends to leave my head blasted out. 

Onion - my what now? Hehe I somewhat lack one of those sadly 

c.cloudwalker - I look forward to hearing more


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## white (Sep 19, 2010)

Freeman's book is good, but just search the web for 'artistic principles' or 'elements of design' and honestly a lot can be learned by just looking at the last century of photography and looking at how all the parts of an image work together.

photography-now.net


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## Garbz (Sep 20, 2010)

"The Photographer's Eye" by Michael Freeman.

If what you're after isn't in there, than it's not art, it's bull****


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## pbelarge (Sep 20, 2010)

I have recently purchased a couple of books with a similar thought as yours.

Betty Edwards
Color, A course in mastering the art of mixing colors.
(I want to understand colors more)

Trey Grey
Color Confidence 2nd Ed
(This book is written for photographers)

Stephen Quiller
Color Choices, Making Color Sense Out of Color Theory

Fil Hunter, Steven Biver, Paul Fugua
Light Science & Magic 3rd Ed
(Not color related, but really helps to understand light - a big part of art-especially in photography)

I also have the others mentioned above, they are good as well.
I took a course in the history of art, but it was not suited for photography specifically.

Otherwise, it is somewhat difficult to find a good book on the study of art. I think it will take some help here and more than one book.


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## Overread (Sep 24, 2010)

Certainly I would be surprised to find all the answers in a single book - but it is a case of picking through the picture books and getting at those that have more content beyond looks. 

Also I can't find my copy of the freeman book - grr its somewhere I know its somewhere!


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## Sbuxo (Sep 24, 2010)

I think I have a list at home, I'm at school now, but when I get a hold of it I'll post some for you.


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## c.cloudwalker (Sep 24, 2010)

Sorry but I've been busy and, frankly, forgot about this thread.

I'm not much for schools but I did take a few classes in an art school and I often tell people to go take a design class. The best money I ever spent. Of course the professor you get has a lot to do with how much you will get out of it too. Seeing the reactions of professor and classmates made understanding the concepts a lot easier than if you were sitting alone at home with a book.

But I have been looking for a book myself so as to have something to suggest to those who can't afford a class but I have yet to find one.

I do not like photo books on composition. They leave a lot to be desired because they leave a lot of stuff out if it's not directly related to photo. The problem is I have found that a lot of that stuff is useful to know and understand. A general design class is a much better bet.

That said, the basic theory in art is that anything goes. Accept that first or you will have problems. It doesn't mean that you have to like everything, it only means that if you like it that is enough. When you mix art and commercial work you of course have to take your client into consideration. Some will allow you to be very artsy, some will not.

By the way, few people really understand PHI, the Golden number/ the Divine Proportion. I get some of it but, to be honest, everytime I reread my book on the subject, I find I got some of it totally wrong. 

Here are two books that may help you:
"Divine Proportion/PHI" by Priya Hemenway. The only one I kept from the bunch I got to study the idea, I thought it was the best.
"An Introduction to Color" by Ralph Evans. This is a pretty old book so may not be easy to find but it is very good. It was published in England too btw when it came out in 1948. Understanding color and how they relate to each other and how they play on the eye is primordial in any artistic endeavor. Including B&W photography, because it allows you to know what shade of gray a color will convert to.

In the meantime, look at art, look at art, look at art. And always try and figure out why you like some stuff, why you dislike other stuff. And of course doing so in a gallery is a much better idea. Unfortunately most affordable art books are pretty poor reproductions of the works and really do not give you a good sense of the works.

Hope that helps.


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## Sbuxo (Sep 24, 2010)

Photography as Contemporary Artby Charlotte Cotton
Beauty in Photography by John Szarkowski

Check this site out: photo-eye | Photography Magazine, Photo Bookstore, Photography Gallery, Rare Photobook Auctions, USA Photo Guide, VisualServer Websites for Photographers

These are from the top of my head...have to look around for that list. :\


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## icassell (Sep 24, 2010)

Find Freeman's book ... it'll help.


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## michaelleggero (Sep 25, 2010)

books are good, but what you really need to do is go to a few galleries and just look at what jumps out at you.... and art is inside you, ti's not in a book.  i can read tons of cookbooks but emeril will still kick my ass in the kitchen.. it's what's inside YOU, not what's inside a book that matters

Mike Leggero

http://www.michaelleggero.com


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## gsgary (Sep 25, 2010)

This is my sister-in-law Christine Gornowicz just read the bull**** on her website, this is how they talk when they have been to Goldsmiths


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## Sbuxo (Sep 25, 2010)

Yes, I also suggest looking at others' work.

Look at Fine Art photographers and observe their work and see why they are called so. Look at the details in their work, look at critiques, etc.


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## epatsellis (Sep 25, 2010)

gsgary said:


> This is my sister-in-law Christine Gornowicz just read the bull**** on her website, this is how they talk when they have been to Goldsmiths



I certainly wouldn't call it bull****. One of the things frequently missed in these types of conversations is that there needs to be a common language, when one speaks of this or that aesthetic, or compositional concepts, the speaker (or web page author) assumes that the person reading or hearing it has the same undertstanding of the vocabulary. When there's a divide in that knowledge, it's far easier to say bull**** than strive to understand the context and meaning. As a late life (47) art major, it's hard for me to sometimes not call bull****, but there are core compositional elements and principles that guide all artistic endeavors, and they do have merit. 

The suggestion of taking a class or two has significant merit, and the OP should seriously consider it, it will help you change the way you see things.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Sep 13, 2011)

So, Overread, how are your studies of art coming along?


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## Forkie (Sep 14, 2011)

Garbz said:


> "The Photographer's Eye" by Michael Freeman.
> 
> If what you're after isn't in there, than it's not art, it's bull****



This with knobs on.  It fabulous.


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## WesternGuy (Sep 14, 2011)

Here are a few websites for you to add to the long list you have already:

Learn Composition

Photography Composition - What Could You Be Doing Better?

Photography Composition Articles Library

Composition Tips

If you need more, just Google "photographic composition" and you will have enough hits to keep you busy for a long, long time.  The real key, though, and I am sure you realize this, is that when you feel that you understand a basic element or "rule" of composition, take your camera, go out and see if you can find a situation where you can deliberately practice it - shoot both portrait and landscape mode versions and see which one works and try and understand why certain things work, or don't work, in a given situation.  My 0.02¢.


Cheers,

WesternGuy


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## Big Mike (Sep 14, 2011)

I've done a bunch or reading on Gestalt Theory, I found it interesting and helpful to my artistic thought process.


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## bennielou (Sep 14, 2011)

I'm a bit like you, Overread.  I can read the books, look at all the diagrams, but I just don't "get it".  I'm one of those people who learn better visually.  So instead of books, I'm gonna give you other suggestions, that I hope can help.

I spend a lot of time looking at award winning photos, then trying to deconstruct them.  Was it the light?  The composition?  The moment?  The processing?  Normally all of the above.  I especially like to see all the PPA and WPPI returns, but my favorite source of photos are those Pulitzer Prize Winning ones, as I really like photojournalism.
I probably will never achieve shots like those, but I'm starting to understand why they work.

Another thing I do is go to the bookstore, and buy all those tabletop art books that I can find.  Especially the masters.  And not just masters of photography.  My collection of painted art books are much more valuable to me.  Again, I'll never be a grand master, but they totally inspire me, and help me understand.

Hope this helps!


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## Overread (Sep 14, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> So, Overread, how are your studies of art coming along?



Not nearly as far nor as deep as they should be - I must admit I've been rather not shooting much over the last half a year or so - gotten bogged down with stuffs and such and not been following through things that much. I have gotten a few books, though I've really got to sit down and read them not just skim through them/lightly - gotta really sit, read, practice and learn what they say not just think I know what they say.

edit - thanks bennielou - and yes I think art might be one of those things I can't easily pick up from a book  at least to some degree. I have got a few good books, though a few of my interest areas (macro esp ,but also wildlife) can tend to ignore the artistic representation purely for the representation of the subject itself. So there is a little bit of dead space in there where there are "great photos" but they are great because they show something rather than because of the pure artistry behind them. 
I might need to invest more time with landscapes (I keep meaning to but not doing so) as it is an interest area for me and one far more dominated by teh need for critical good composition (and light) and not just seeing something rare/elusive.


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## bennielou (Sep 15, 2011)

No problem Overread.  You might be different, but I'm not technically inclined at all.  When people start talking ratios and soforth, my eyes roll into the back of my head.  But somehow, when I see it, it starts to makes sense.


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## c.cloudwalker (Sep 15, 2011)

bennielou said:


> No problem Overread.  You might be different, but I'm not technically inclined at all.  When people start talking ratios and soforth, my eyes roll into the back of my head.  But somehow, when I see it, it starts to makes sense.



+1

Same here. I'm not a technical geek, not that there is anything wrong with it, I just am not. To each his own.

What has worked for me is decent technical knowledge coupled with, yes I'll say it. a very good artistic eye. And I'll say that too: it will beat a great technical photog with no artistic bone any day of the week. No one, and rightfully so, will pay you the big money for copying others no matter how much better you do it.


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## DiskoJoe (Sep 15, 2011)

Overread said:


> I've recently been trying to learn more of the artistic side of photography as well as art in general and whilst I've come across a lot of terminology its quite clear that the artists are speaking a language that I can't understand.
> 
> So does anyone know any books or good references that go into some detail concerning compositional theories such as the Golden Section Rule, Golden Spirals as well as building into understanding concepts like shape, form, lines, etc....
> 
> Some of these I understand in very basic theory and others are a total area of confusion for me. Sadly most of what I find for photography is the good old "rule of thirds", but I would like to broaden my options and understanding.



go to a community college and take a painting class and a intro to art  history class. painting will teach you lines, shapes, texture and  composition. The art history will teach you to have a discerning eye.  Plus both are fun. i used to  paint. it helps. Play a stringed instrument too. The use of both limbs doing various tasks simultaneously will help you brain function in new ways.


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