# macro equipement help.



## dak1b

Hello All!

I've decided to focus on macro photography because for one I love the perceptive you get with macro and how creative you can become. I ordered my Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro Auto Focus Lens a few days ago :mrgreen: I can't wait to use this baby!!!! 

I was wondering what equipment I might need to improve my photography. I already have a tri-pod and external flash...what else should I look at?

Your help is appreciated! :thumbup:


----------



## Josh66

With a tripod and flash you should be pretty much set...  Get a remote if you don't have one.

Focusing rails are probably about the only other thing you may end up wanting...


----------



## dak1b

O|||||||O said:


> With a tripod and flash you should be pretty much set...  Get a remote if you don't have one.
> 
> Focusing rails are probably about the only other thing you may end up wanting...



any suggestions on what remote to get?


----------



## Josh66

dak1b said:


> any suggestions on what remote to get?



Canon | RS-60E3 Remote Switch - 2' | 2469A002 | B&H Photo Video
(This is the remote listed in the specs of the 1000D)

...I don't think the wireless one is compatible with your camera...  The 1000D isn't listed in the compatible cameras anyway.  Might still work, I'm not sure...  Does your camera have an IR receiver?  Should be a red plastic window somewhere on the grip.


----------



## Josh66

Also, if you don't have a way to get the flash off-camera - you'll probably want to look into that too.


----------



## dak1b

O|||||||O said:


> dak1b said:
> 
> 
> 
> any suggestions on what remote to get?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Canon | RS-60E3 Remote Switch - 2' | 2469A002 | B&H Photo Video
> (This is the remote listed in the specs of the 1000D)
> 
> ...I don't think the wireless one is compatible with your camera...  The 1000D isn't listed in the compatible cameras anyway.  Might still work, I'm not sure...  Does your camera have an IR receiver?  Should be a red plastic window somewhere on the grip.
Click to expand...


so this: Remote Switch Cord for Canon 400D/450D/1000D RS-60E3 - eBay (item 260535656146 end time Jan-16-10 23:43:19 PST)

will this fit my rebel xs?


----------



## Josh66

Should work fine.

(If you really wanted to, you could make your own for a few bucks and a trip to Radio Shack...  Remotes like this are probably one of the few cases where the cheap stuff is just as good as the expensive stuff.  There just isn't really much to go wrong on a device this simple.)


----------



## dak1b

O|||||||O said:


> Should work fine.
> 
> (If you really wanted to, you could make your own for a few bucks and a trip to Radio Shack...  Remotes like this are probably one of the few cases where the cheap stuff is just as good as the expensive stuff.  There just isn't really much to go wrong on a device this simple.)



sounds good. i'm just bout to buy it from ebay for $8.99 free ship :mrgreen:

thanks!


----------



## Battou

You might want to look into some extention tubes as well, get even more out of that 100mm macro.


----------



## dak1b

in my above post I meant i have an internal flash not external...should I get an external flash> if so what kind? 

thanks again!


----------



## dak1b

Battou said:


> You might want to look into some extention tubes as well, get even more out of that 100mm macro.



hmmm wat extension tubes?


----------



## Josh66

dak1b said:


> in my above post I meant i have an internal flash not external...should I get an external flash> if so what kind?
> 
> thanks again!



You mean just the pop-up flash on the camera, or something else?

If all you have is the pop-up flash, an off-camera flash would help a lot.  You can still do a lot just by using the tripod though.  With a tripod, you can use just about any light (even a desk lamp...).


----------



## Josh66

dak1b said:


> Battou said:
> 
> 
> 
> You might want to look into some extention tubes as well, get even more out of that 100mm macro.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hmmm wat extension tubes?
Click to expand...


They are basically just hollow tubes...  You can get them in various lengths.  They let you focus closer.

The 100mm macro can do 1:1 at minimum focus distance, these would let you focus even closer giving you magnification even greater than 1:1.


----------



## dak1b

O|||||||O said:


> dak1b said:
> 
> 
> 
> in my above post I meant i have an internal flash not external...should I get an external flash> if so what kind?
> 
> thanks again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean just the pop-up flash on the camera, or something else?
> 
> If all you have is the pop-up flash, an off-camera flash would help a lot.  You can still do a lot just by using the tripod though.  With a tripod, you can use just about any light (even a desk lamp...).
Click to expand...

 
Yes, the pop up flash is what I'm referring too. I will hold off on the flash until later and look into extension tubes right now. :thumbup:


----------



## Josh66

What I said above is assuming that you're shooting non-living things...  A bug isn't going to sit still long enough for you to use a desk lamp for a light.


----------



## dak1b

wud these tubes do the job? will they fit my macro lens?

3 Ring Macro Extension Tube for CANON EOS 1000D 450D - eBay (item 260535646784 end time Jan-16-10 22:33:22 PST)


----------



## dak1b

O|||||||O said:


> What I said above is assuming that you're shooting non-living things...  A bug isn't going to sit still long enough for you to use a desk lamp for a light.



Half my shooting will contain living creatures. I'm guessing I'll have to invest in a external flash? recommendations?


----------



## Josh66

dak1b said:


> wud these tubes do the job? will they fit my macro lens?
> 
> 3 Ring Macro Extension Tube for CANON EOS 1000D 450D - eBay (item 260535646784 end time Jan-16-10 22:33:22 PST)



That looks like a kit with 3 different sizes (which can be stacked).

Short answer is, yes - they will work.

Long answer - you will lose all electronic communication between the lens & body at that price.

This just means that you will have to use manual mode, and that you will not be able to change the aperture of the lens.  It will always be wide open.  You will also not be able to use autofocus (which probably wouldn't help much anyway at those levels of magnification).


----------



## dak1b

wat am I looking for when I purchase a external flash?


----------



## Josh66

Well, I'm not really the guy to ask when it comes to flash...
I know a little, but not enough to be making recommendations.

You would probably have better luck starting a new thread specifically about the flash.
Or wait for someone else to join in on this thread...

(And I'm sure that if you run a search, there will be a lot of hits.)


----------



## dak1b

O|||||||O said:


> Well, I'm not really the guy to ask when it comes to flash...
> I know a little, but not enough to be making recommendations.
> 
> You would probably have better luck starting a new thread specifically about the flash.
> Or wait for someone else to join in on this thread...
> 
> (And I'm sure that if you run a search, there will be a lot of hits.)



right on:thumbup:

good chatting with you!

good advice +1


----------



## chip

if you do a lot of macro photography, a macro ring flash may be a good investment.


----------



## dak1b

chip said:


> if you do a lot of macro photography, a macro ring flash may be a good investment.



i'm thinkin of either a macro ring flash or a external flash. one or the other...this is prob what I wud get if I was leaning towards macro ring flash: Macro Ring Flash LED Light Canon/Sony/Nikon/SIGMA LENS - eBay (item 190365169593 end time Jan-17-10 13:46:04 PST)


----------



## Overread

On the subject of getting more out of your macro lens I would (personally) say no to extension tubes for a 100mm macro lens. They will give you some boost to magnifcation but not a whole lot. 
If you were to go for tubes get the Kenko AF tubes, which do come with the electrical contacts which let you control the aperture blades - otherwise you are stuck shooting wide open and that means a razor thin depth of field to work with. You can trick the blades to be shut all the time, but that will mean focusing with very little light which is just as hard to work with. So stump up the extra cash for the kenko tubes if you go that rout.

Personally I would say go for something like a Kenko 1.4 teleconverter (I belive this is compatable with the 100mm macro lens from canon); I use a 1.4 teleconverter all the time with my macro lenses and I find it gives a nice magnification boost; whilst hardly degrading image quality and letting one keep infinty focus.
You can also try out the Raynox series of macro lens diopters - the DCR250 is an affordable and highquality macro diopter (sometimes misslabled a filter) and combined with a 1.4TC (or used alone) gives you again more magnification.


On the subject of focusing rails, you do need these if you are going to shoot from a tripod. Personal experience has also taught me that the ebay macro focusing rails are one of the better designs (better than the manfrotto!) and are an affordable option (the other is novoflex which is very expensive).

Onto lighting - personally I would say avoid a ringflash as your first flash and instead aim for a proper speedlite flash. A 430EX2 or some sunpak options (there are numerous 3rdparty cheaper options but I honestly don't know them well enough to advise which to go for) would give you a flash with far more versatility than just macro and portrait work (which ringflashes are pretty much limited to). A flashgun combined with a softbox (I used a lumiquest softbox myself) and an offcamera flash cord (or offcamera radio remote) will give you a versatile and good lighting source.

However for lighting advice I honestly would open a new thread for that since there are many options that I simply don't know enough about to comment on


----------



## mahum

would the kenko extension tube set help me get closer with my tamron 90mm macro? the guy at adorama tolld me they wouldn't help/ Also I was interested in the canon 500D close up lens, anyone have one of those.??? thanks also, I Do have a 1.4 canon teleconverter. I did not know i could use that on my macro. I was using it on my 70-200 for more lenght.


----------



## Overread

The basic rule is that the longer the focal length of the lens the more tube length you would need to get an increase in magnification. Once you start leaving 50mm range lenses the effectivness of tubes reduces a lot. Some use them on 200mm - 400mm lenes to get shots of butterflies and dragonflies but for macro work on a 90mm I would agree that tubes would not be the ideal solution.

For a decent boost to magnification with minimal image quality loss a 1.4teleconverter is an idea addon - as I said above it gives you a boost to magnification whilst not stripping the setup of infinity focus. The canon 500D (from what I have heard) is a good bit of glass and is a diopter much like the Raynox range - and thus you do lose infinity focus when using it. I also forget its rating (power) level. When I want more than my 1.4 can give me I personally use a Raynox DCR250 in addition to the 1.4TC though results are far softer and the depth of field is very tiny at such magnifications


----------



## eccs19

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that sometimes with autofocus lenses, then have a hard time focusing on objects when doing macro work.  You may need / want to switch to manual focusing.  May give you better control, especially if your using focusing rails.  They will be used to fine tune your focus.


----------



## mahum

Overread said:


> The basic rule is that the longer the focal length of the lens the more tube length you would need to get an increase in magnification. Once you start leaving 50mm range lenses the effectivness of tubes reduces a lot. Some use them on 200mm - 400mm lenes to get shots of butterflies and dragonflies but for macro work on a 90mm I would agree that tubes would not be the ideal solution.
> 
> For a decent boost to magnification with minimal image quality loss a 1.4teleconverter is an idea addon - as I said above it gives you a boost to magnification whilst not stripping the setup of infinity focus. The canon 500D (from what I have heard) is a good bit of glass and is a diopter much like the Raynox range - and thus you do lose infinity focus when using it. I also forget its rating (power) level. When I want more than my 1.4 can give me I personally use a Raynox DCR250 in addition to the 1.4TC though results are far softer and the depth of field is very tiny at such magnifications


 thank you for giving me another use for my 1.4 converter. I will be anxious to try it out on my 90mm/ And I always use manual focus, but get lotss of blurry ones, as I haven't gotten a tripod yet, I know this isn't the right forum section, but any thoughts on a reasonable but good setup for legs anf ballhead ? thank you. One more thing, as I am new, is there something I can click on that will notify me by eamil when I get a reply?


----------



## Josh66

mahum said:


> One more thing, as I am new, is there something I can click on that will notify me by eamil when I get a reply?



That is an option that can be turned on or off in the User CP.


----------



## mahum

O|||||||O said:


> mahum said:
> 
> 
> 
> One more thing, as I am new, is there something I can click on that will notify me by eamil when I get a reply?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is an option that can be turned on or off in the User CP.
Click to expand...

 thank you, guess i did not see it


----------



## Overread

Tripod wise a 055XPROB or the older model (second hand now mostly) from Manfrotto is a good budget starting point for a solid tripod. However I would urge you not to skimp on tripods and to save up and get a really good set of legs since a good set will last you decades. Also if you plan on doing a lot of walking with the tripod a carbon firbre is the ideal solution - they cost a lot more but are lighter!

As for a tripod head for macro a ballhead is not what you want. Even the top range ball heads can suffer from creeping which is not noticable normally, but at macro magnifications it quickly becomes a pain. A good 3way head is a good setup up but idealy you want fine control in each axis and you only get that from a geared head. The manfrotto junior geared head is a very popular choice for this - I know its certainly not a budget line option, but for macro its the head you want to aim for (its also good for any other static* subject like buildings, products, landscapes etc... but hopeless for a moving subject like birds, pets kids or sports - which is where a ballhead excells).

*note I said static subjects whilst refrencing insects - if you are using a tripod for an insect shot you need one of two things - either a cold insect which is not moving very much (early mornings and just after rainstorms are when to find cold and slow insects); or a lure (rotting fruit, sugar water, flowers) so that the insects come to a controled location where you are setup.

If you are tracking an active and awake subject the tripod is not help at all since you will never have time to setup - here is where flash and monopods are what you need (though I have to admit I have not got used to using a monopod -most don't go down low enough for my tastes).


----------



## dak1b

Overread said:


> Tripod wise a 055XPROB or the older model (second hand now mostly) from Manfrotto is a good budget starting point for a solid tripod. However I would urge you not to skimp on tripods and to save up and get a really good set of legs since a good set will last you decades. Also if you plan on doing a lot of walking with the tripod a carbon firbre is the ideal solution - they cost a lot more but are lighter!
> 
> As for a tripod head for macro a ballhead is not what you want. Even the top range ball heads can suffer from creeping which is not noticable normally, but at macro magnifications it quickly becomes a pain. A good 3way head is a good setup up but idealy you want fine control in each axis and you only get that from a geared head. The manfrotto junior geared head is a very popular choice for this - I know its certainly not a budget line option, but for macro its the head you want to aim for (its also good for any other static* subject like buildings, products, landscapes etc... but hopeless for a moving subject like birds, pets kids or sports - which is where a ballhead excells).
> 
> *note I said static subjects whilst refrencing insects - if you are using a tripod for an insect shot you need one of two things - either a cold insect which is not moving very much (early mornings and just after rainstorms are when to find cold and slow insects); or a lure (rotting fruit, sugar water, flowers) so that the insects come to a controled location where you are setup.
> 
> If you are tracking an active and awake subject the tripod is not help at all since you will never have time to setup - here is where flash and monopods are what you need (though I have to admit I have not got used to using a monopod -most don't go down low enough for my tastes).




+1 thanks for the tips!:thumbup:


----------



## mahum

Overread said:


> On the subject of getting more out of your macro lens I would (personally) say no to extension tubes for a 100mm macro lens. They will give you some boost to magnifcation but not a whole lot.
> If you were to go for tubes get the Kenko AF tubes, which do come with the electrical contacts which let you control the aperture blades - otherwise you are stuck shooting wide open and that means a razor thin depth of field to work with. You can trick the blades to be shut all the time, but that will mean focusing with very little light which is just as hard to work with. So stump up the extra cash for the kenko tubes if you go that rout.
> 
> Personally I would say go for something like a Kenko 1.4 teleconverter (I belive this is compatable with the 100mm macro lens from canon); I use a 1.4 teleconverter all the time with my macro lenses and I find it gives a nice magnification boost; whilst hardly degrading image quality and letting one keep infinty focus.
> You can also try out the Raynox series of macro lens diopters - the DCR250 is an affordable and highquality macro diopter (sometimes misslabled a filter) and combined with a 1.4TC (or used alone) gives you again more magnification.
> 
> 
> On the subject of focusing rails, you do need these if you are going to shoot from a tripod. Personal experience has also taught me that the ebay macro focusing rails are one of the better designs (better than the manfrotto!) and are an affordable option (the other is novoflex which is very expensive).
> 
> Onto lighting - personally I would say avoid a ringflash as your first flash and instead aim for a proper speedlite flash. A 430EX2 or some sunpak options (there are numerous 3rdparty cheaper options but I honestly don't know them well enough to advise which to go for) would give you a flash with far more versatility than just macro and portrait work (which ringflashes are pretty much limited to). A flashgun combined with a softbox (I used a lumiquest softbox myself) and an offcamera flash cord (or offcamera radio remote) will give you a versatile and good lighting source.
> 
> However for lighting advice I honestly would open a new thread for that since there are many options that I simply don't know enough about to comment on


 I was told today by B and H, that I can not put any extender on my tamron 90mm macro. His only suggestion to get more magnification, is to get a 60mm macro lens. ($400.). Do you agreee??


----------



## Overread

I would first double check with B&H - whilst I am certain that no extenders will work with your tamron lens (since extenders is the name that canon give to their teleconverters) 3rdparty teleconverters might be an option - such as the kenko range or the sigma. However as I am not a 90mm tamron user I have no idea which would or would not fit.

As for the 60mm macro suggestion I am confused at that - since any true macro lens (lens capable of 1:1 magnification) will give you the same image frame no matter what its focal length is*. Further the EFS60mm certainly won't fit canon teleconverters (Extenders) either unless the BH retailer is refering to the newer Tamron 60mm macro (at which point I point out that this lens is impressive, but is only crop sensor camera compatable should that be a concern for the future).

However all is not lost, you can always use a set of extension tubes (kenko AF tubes are the best, don't get the canon make) and put the smaller tube between the lens and the teleconverter. You will lose infinity focus this way but you will be able to use the teleconverter this way - and outside of teleconverters other macro magnifications boosting methods like tubes and macro diopters are going to lose you infinity focus anyway


* in a perfect world; in reality there is likley to be some minor differences but hardly anything that would greatly affect your image


----------



## icassell

You definitely want an off-camera flash (with off-camera cord).  If you want to get really fancy, canon makes a beautiful (expensive) macro flash.

I have good results with my 430EX.  With insects, I generally use it with a Lumiquest softbox.


----------



## dak1b

icassell said:


> You definitely want an off-camera flash (with off-camera cord).  If you want to get really fancy, canon makes a beautiful (expensive) macro flash.
> 
> I have good results with my 430EX.  With insects, I generally use it with a Lumiquest softbox.




right on i'll try starting my macro photography w/o a external flash for now until I save up some money for a descent canon flash. 

thanks!


----------



## mahum

Overread said:


> I would first double check with B&H - whilst I am certain that no extenders will work with your tamron lens (since extenders is the name that canon give to their teleconverters) 3rdparty teleconverters might be an option - such as the kenko range or the sigma. However as I am not a 90mm tamron user I have no idea which would or would not fit.
> 
> As for the 60mm macro suggestion I am confused at that - since any true macro lens (lens capable of 1:1 magnification) will give you the same image frame no matter what its focal length is*. Further the EFS60mm certainly won't fit canon teleconverters (Extenders) either unless the BH retailer is refering to the newer Tamron 60mm macro (at which point I point out that this lens is impressive, but is only crop sensor camera compatable should that be a concern for the future).
> 
> However all is not lost, you can always use a set of extension tubes (kenko AF tubes are the best, don't get the canon make) and put the smaller tube between the lens and the teleconverter. You will lose infinity focus this way but you will be able to use the teleconverter this way - and outside of teleconverters other macro magnifications boosting methods like tubes and macro diopters are going to lose you infinity focus anyway
> 
> 
> * in a perfect world; in reality there is likley to be some minor differences but hardly anything that would greatly affect your image


 OK, so would you buy the set of kenko tubes? And this would get me closer, -to put the extension tube on, then the 1.4 converter? I am not trying to be dense here, but I want to make  sure this will help me get closer. And the guy at B & H, did indeed say that extension tubes would not help me , so please understand my confusion. The saleman did seem a bit impatient, so maybe I just did not get it. now what ?


----------



## mahum

icassell said:


> You definitely want an off-camera flash (with off-camera cord). If you want to get really fancy, canon makes a beautiful (expensive) macro flash.
> 
> I have good results with my 430EX. With insects, I generally use it with a Lumiquest softbox.


 Is this gonna break the bamk ? I just don't understand how more light (flash), helps magnify my subject. Remember, I am new, as if you could not tell. Thank you


----------



## dak1b

mahum said:


> icassell said:
> 
> 
> 
> You definitely want an off-camera flash (with off-camera cord). If you want to get really fancy, canon makes a beautiful (expensive) macro flash.
> 
> I have good results with my 430EX. With insects, I generally use it with a Lumiquest softbox.
> 
> 
> 
> Is this gonna break the bamk ? I just don't understand how more light (flash), helps magnify my subject. Remember, I am new, as if you could not tell. Thank you
Click to expand...


ya I'm new as well when it comes to external flash. Whats a good starter ex flash for macro photography?


----------



## Overread

Firstly double check with users of the Tamron 90mm that there is no 1.4 teleconverter that will fit that lens. That is the first step you want to take. My advice regarding the extension tube is that if you fit the tube over the telconverter and then the 90mm lens the protruding part of the teleconverter will no longer hit the back of the lens and thus the two will fit together. Thus you get the bonus of the teleconverter.
We are not talking massive changes in magnfication here, but a boosting which I personally find very good for insects such as flies which tend to be a bit small (overall) for regular 1:1 macro work. 


For flash I strongly recomend going for something like a 430EX (canon shooter) since its not only a versitle flash on its own but when combined with something like a lumiquest softbox and an offcamera flash cord it rapidly becomes a very versatile lighting setup. I use  a similar lighting setup but I use a 580EX2 - for macro the differences in the flashes are not noticable, the 430 has more than enough power and most times you don't need the additional rotation features of the 580 (the 580 is also heavier than the 430). 
From there there are many setups you can make and choose and macro flash is as varied and complicated as full strobist setups - though the more ideal dedicated macro flash setups are more expensive - start at the beginning and get a good allrounder flash in a 430 (or equivalent for nikon setups)


----------



## mahum

Overread said:


> Firstly double check with users of the Tamron 90mm that there is no 1.4 teleconverter that will fit that lens. That is the first step you want to take. My advice regarding the extension tube is that if you fit the tube over the telconverter and then the 90mm lens the protruding part of the teleconverter will no longer hit the back of the lens and thus the two will fit together. Thus you get the bonus of the teleconverter.
> We are not talking massive changes in magnfication here, but a boosting which I personally find very good for insects such as flies which tend to be a bit small (overall) for regular 1:1 macro work.
> 
> 
> For flash I strongly recomend going for something like a 430EX (canon shooter) since its not only a versitle flash on its own but when combined with something like a lumiquest softbox and an offcamera flash cord it rapidly becomes a very versatile lighting setup. I use a similar lighting setup but I use a 580EX2 - for macro the differences in the flashes are not noticable, the 430 has more than enough power and most times you don't need the additional rotation features of the 580 (the 580 is also heavier than the 430).
> From there there are many setups you can make and choose and macro flash is as varied and complicated as full strobist setups - though the more ideal dedicated macro flash setups are more expensive - start at the beginning and get a good allrounder flash in a 430 (or equivalent for nikon setups)


 You really have been most  helpful.  I will order the kenko,, that way  I could use them on any other lens I own in the future. What is your camera? I am thinking after my 70-200 2.8 IS, I am going to get a canon 5D.


----------



## Overread

Canon 400D myself, so little differnt from the rebel camera body you use (the USA uses different lables for the 400D and I forget what it is). As for the 70-200mm f2.8 IS its a great lens (I use one myself) though aside from the IS and the wider max aperture I would expect little image quality difference from the 70-200mm f4 L that you own already.
Moving to fullframe - the 5D - will also affect your macro (in good and bad ways). The good is that your image frame (the area of shot you capture) at 1:1 will be larger - you won't get any more magnification, but you will capture a larger area of the shot; in addition you will lose a bit of depth of field (around one stop in apertures worth) however master the use of focusing and maximising the plane of focus and it should not have too much impact on your images in that regard.


----------



## icassell

You need plenty of light for good macro.  When you are shooting macro, it is very difficult to get adequate DOF without dropping your aperture to f/11 or even smaller.  This is OK if you don't have a moving target, because you can just extend your exposure time.  On the other hand, if your target is moving (e.g. bugs), you need to have a fast enough shutter speed as well.  You will need light for that.


----------



## mahum

dak1b said:


> Hello All!
> 
> I've decided to focus on macro photography because for one I love the perceptive you get with macro and how creative you can become. I ordered my Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro Auto Focus Lens a few days ago :mrgreen: I can't wait to use this baby!!!!
> 
> I was wondering what equipment I might need to improve my photography. I already have a tri-pod and external flash...what else should I look at?
> 
> Your help is appreciated! :thumbup:


 Which exernal flash did you buy? I need one, and a tripod as well.


----------



## TCimages

I don't recommend extension tubes. That do not allow for infinity focus and are very challenging with very little benefit. Especially with the 100mm. If you want super magnifications though, they can do a lot with a 50mm lens. The canon MP65 lens will do this with no extension tubes, but it's expensive. For normal 1:1 macro, the 100mm is perfect all by itself! 

I second the suggestion for a 430ex (with a canon you'll maintain the ETTL for exposure) with a lumiquest softbox or other diffuser. With the 100 mm, this works very well mounted directly on the camera due to the minimum focus distance of 6 inches. You'll want an off camera cord eventually for lighting control. Like someone posted, the 430 is more versatile so start there. Down the road if you really like it, invest in a macro flash. 

A tripod isn't necessary if you use external lighting. I never use one. However, if you want ambient light and no flash, you'll need a tripod. Unless you use high ISO to get the shutter speeds up. Bugs can be very hard to get if your shutter speeds are too slow. 

DOF is very thin with macro, so you'll have to close the aperture (higher number) in order to get enough DOF. This means you need more light to get your shutter speeds up, hence the need for flash or LOTS of ambient light. With that said, some folks like very thin DOF for their macro which makes the requirement for light not as critical. 

If you use external light and want to hand hold, I suggest the following settings to get you started:
Manual Settings
Shutter=200
Aperture=f8-13
Focus mode=AI Servo (helps keep things focused with thin DOF)
Focus Point- Center only
ISO=100

Hope this helps


----------



## Overread

Interesting point on the use of auto focus TC. Most of the macro shooters I know remain fully in manual focus (as I do myself) and find (as I have) that AF tends to be a bit too erratic and slow for close up work. Butterflies and dragonflies and other larger bugs are not too bad and 1:2 macro (which is really closeup work) tends to be ok with such but around 1:1 I find things become far easier with manual focus.


----------



## TCimages

You're right. Most do use manual. I did for along time, but found that the razor thin DOF and manual had me missing the focus too much. As you know, even the very slightest movement (in or away) from the subject results in OOF. It will hunt on occasion in low contrast, but I simply switch to manual or use the built in lamp on my macro ring flash. This is a nice feature on a macro flash. 

You should give it a try sometime. I have no idea how the focus systems compare between Sigma and Canon. The one thing I should add though, is using AI Servo means you can't focus then reframe - unless you use a focus lock feature. With that said though, reframing almost always results in OOF. 

I assume the OP is not using the new 100mm L which has IS? This is usually most effective with a slight pause after focus. Which may make it even more difficult to catch the focus.

BTW Overread.  Nice shots on your flickr.  I saw you use a sock on your lens to protect it.  Great idea, if you want camo, consider using an archery arm protector made by Real Tree.


----------



## Overread

Interesting on the lighting point, I knew the twinflash macro lights had the light booster but not the ringflash as well. Also you might find this interesting 
New Macro Tracking function on 7D - BirdForum

an AF mode more dedicated to macro work - it could make 1:1 based macro work a lot easier and with af capable setups beyond 1:1 (with light boosting) as well.


----------



## TCimages

wow, interesting.  Thanks for sharing.  Nice knowing you don't have to buy a new body to get the same effect though.


----------



## mahum

TCimages said:


> I don't recommend extension tubes. That do not allow for infinity focus and are very challenging with very little benefit. Especially with the 100mm. If you want super magnifications though, they can do a lot with a 50mm lens. The canon MP65 lens will do this with no extension tubes, but it's expensive. For normal 1:1 macro, the 100mm is perfect all by itself!
> 
> I second the suggestion for a 430ex (with a canon you'll maintain the ETTL for exposure) with a lumiquest softbox or other diffuser. With the 100 mm, this works very well mounted directly on the camera due to the minimum focus distance of 6 inches. You'll want an off camera cord eventually for lighting control. Like someone posted, the 430 is more versatile so start there. Down the road if you really like it, invest in a macro flash.
> 
> A tripod isn't necessary if you use external lighting. I never use one. However, if you want ambient light and no flash, you'll need a tripod. Unless you use high ISO to get the shutter speeds up. Bugs can be very hard to get if your shutter speeds are too slow.
> 
> DOF is very thin with macro, so you'll have to close the aperture (higher number) in order to get enough DOF. This means you need more light to get your shutter speeds up, hence the need for flash or LOTS of ambient light. With that said, some folks like very thin DOF for their macro which makes the requirement for light not as critical.
> 
> If you use external light and want to hand hold, I suggest the following settings to get you started:
> Manual Settings
> Shutter=200
> Aperture=f8-13
> Focus mode=AI Servo (helps keep things focused with thin DOF)
> Focus Point- Center only
> ISO=100
> 
> Hope this helps


 First of all, I want to thank you for being so specific in your advise. It  was very helpful. I however, already bought the extension tubes-you are right, they do not help with my magnification at all. I however, may not have my camera settings correct while using them either. I just looked at your website. It is exactly what I am talking about. THOSE, (macro), are what I am wanting to do. It is what I have been trying to capture since I got my tamron 90mm 1:1 . I just did not know what I was doing wrong, that my images are not close enough.I also, last week, bought a phoenix macro flashring. Have not opened the box yet. Is that a good purchase for me? I do not own any other external flashes. I only shoot outside for insects and flowers of course, so thought the ringflash with the extension tubes would serve me well. I got the macro book of Brian Peterson, and he DID, recommend these. However, I am willing to purchase whatever I need to get shots like yours. They are wonderful. I have no desire to profit from any of my photography, I am retired and just want to emjoy this hobby on aa serious level. I know my shots won't look, at your quality, cause you probably have an expensive camera also, but that is my goal- to be like you:blushing:..... thank you for all you have helped with thus far, and if you can keep me on the right track, I will so much be grateful. Thank you in advance for any help. It is so kind of you to take your time to help others. As this forum is all about learning, and you are using it to help others. How kind.


----------



## TCimages

Mahum, Thanks for your comments.  Sounds like you have a ringflash and a 90mm macro lens.  Not knowing what camera you have, I think all you need to do is try those settings in my previous post.  Macro is tricky, once you learn it, you'll understand your camera on a whole new level.  

good luck


----------



## dak1b

wow love how this thread grew. hopefully people can get useful info here. 

cheers!


----------



## mahum

dak1b said:


> wow love how this thread grew. hopefully people can get useful info here.
> 
> cheers!


 did you ever get a ringflash? I did but it is only workking on fullauto.


----------



## mahum

TCimages said:


> Mahum, Thanks for your comments. Sounds like you have a ringflash and a 90mm macro lens. Not knowing what camera you have, I think all you need to do is try those settings in my previous post. Macro is tricky, once you learn it, you'll understand your camera on a whole new level.
> 
> good luck


 My camera is rebel XSI. I got out my ringflash on Sunday, and it is probably something I am doing wrong: but , I can only get to flash on full auto. On manual nothing happens.
Do you use a ringflash for the insect pix on your website? They are great.
I don't know where you live, but I don't have those insects in NW Missoru,,,,,  So, knowing my camera now, any  more advise on how to get "your" look?  Thank you   BTW, everyone who loves macro should visit your website !!!!


----------



## TCimages

Marsha, Yes, most all the shots are with ringflash.  Some of the older ones I used a 430ex external flash.  

Sorry, I'm not familiar with phoenix ringflash so I wont be able to help.  I'm sure if you read the manual, you'll figure it out. 

Once you get it working, post some samples and we'll be able to help.


----------



## mahum

TCimages said:


> Marsha, Yes, most all the shots are with ringflash. Some of the older ones I used a 430ex external flash.
> 
> Sorry, I'm not familiar with phoenix ringflash so I wont be able to help. I'm sure if you read the manual, you'll figure it out.
> 
> Once you get it working, post some samples and we'll be able to help.


 I read the manual (twice). Nothing more than a pamphlet, really. Anyway,  I think it is exclusive to Adorama, who I can not get to return my call, so guess I will wait till I meet someone who owns one. Are all ringflashes so different, ???


----------

