# Am I trying to hard or what?



## dslrchat (Jun 3, 2008)

Its been raining all day, finally couldnt take it anymore, went out to the porch and took some photos of some flowers.
Its pretty dark out there tonight.

I dont know if I am trying to hard, or just dont have what it takes or just doing to much post processing trying to make a bad/plain photo into something.

Anyways here is the 3 I came up with tonight.

Blast Away.

1





2




3


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## Rachelsne (Jun 3, 2008)

did you use a flash, I think the flowers stand out to much from the background

Dont give up yet, there are some conditions that even the best photographers will strugle to get creative interesting shots


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## kellylindseyphotography (Jun 3, 2008)

From what I've seen from you lately, your choosing lighting conditions that are making your work too hard for you.

Get an over cast day, or if you can't get that, get a sunny day and shoot in the shade.  

Practice PERFECT exposure, with NO flash.  

Have an idea of what you want too.  If you want to do waterfalls, go and do them.  Take 100-400 shots.  Always watching your histogram as your shooting to make sure your getting your exposure correct.

AFter that, come back here and we'll help you post process them


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## Sw1tchFX (Jun 3, 2008)

On board flash xeroxes your subject, turn it off and use a tripod if it's dark and your subject isn't moving.


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## |)\/8 (Jun 3, 2008)

Sw1tchFX said:


> On board flash xeroxes your subject, turn it off and use a tripod if it's dark and your subject isn't moving.



According to her exif data, 2nd photo had a 32 second exposure, I hope she used a tripod.  Looks like the focus was just slightly off.


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## Sw1tchFX (Jun 3, 2008)

|)\/8 said:


> According to her exif data, 2nd photo had a 32 second exposure, I hope she used a tripod.  Looks like the focus was just slightly off.


You can see shadows from onboard flash in all of the images. Doesn't matter how long the exposure was, flash still flattened it.


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## tirediron (Jun 4, 2008)

My thoughts...  I don't actually think that it's the exposure issues so much as the composition that bothers me.  These are the types of subjects which beg for a close-up / macro capture.  I think that even with the somewhat harsh lighting that you would been much closer to your goal had you closed in on a single flower, rather than the entire cluster of blooms.

That aside, I do agree that on-camera flash is not your friend in situations like these.  If you have to use a flash, use a diffiuser (Old bleach bottles or similar clear, translucent plastic work just fine) and reflectors (plain white or yellow card stock) to take the edge of the lighting and even it out.

Keep at it!!


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## dslrchat (Jun 4, 2008)

Thank you for your help.

Yes I seem to pick hard times to shoot, but I get frustrated when the only time I have is not good, I received my battery grip last night and just HAD to do something.

I did use a Tripod, but it is very cheap and hard to line up, Camera is too heavy for it even worse now with Battery Grip.
(also this was my first time trying Manual Focus and it was Dark, so guess thats why it was off a bit)

This was the first time I even used the flash, I thought it would help, boy was I wrong. Guess I should have found a table lamp with a shade or something?
(I was on the porch trying to stay out of the rain)

Closer?  I will have to try that, when taking these I thought I was to Close and was trying to move back as far as I could.

I was using a Sigma 70-300 with it set to Macro.

Thank you again, I will keep trying.


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## Overread (Jun 4, 2008)

Hmm the sigma does like to be far off from the target - its min workink distance is rather longer than you would expect from macro mode.
That aside you can get much closer with the macro - try after  just one flower head.

Also I looked at the exif for your first - f5 is way too big an apature you really want to stop down to f8 at most and aything down to  f16 for macro as the depth of field is much smaller at these scales. That should help bring out more of the flower in focus.
Also I know the light was poor, but you could go as low as ISO 100 without any trouble on a tripod unless there is wind (and then 200 and a stick+binbag ties should help hold the plant steady.)

One thing I have also started using which is a great help is using mirror lock-up along with timer shot function. The mirror lock up locks up the eyeviewer mirror before then closing the shutter - so there is less shake in camera. When set to timed delay shot mode it moves the mirror and then waits 2 seconds before closing the shutter and taking the shot.
As for the flash - I have found it can work well when you are shooting instrong lights to bring out some details in a shaded plant, but its very much trial and error at the moment for me - but I did do 2 things

1) shooting in ap mode I set the exposure compansation to -1 when I was shooting outside in the middle of a bright day

2) I also set the Flash exp comp to -1 as well to counter the harsher bright light of the flash at close range.

Your off to a good start don't give up now !!


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## dslrchat (Jun 4, 2008)

I went back and looked through some of the shots from last night.
the next 2 are the same photo, different PP
F29
Ex 30 sec
ISO 100
No Flash
Was very dark so when converting from Raw to Jpeg, I bumped the exposure to +2.15
1,




2, Used "Auto Curves in PS





I guess bumping exposure up made it very noisy?


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## Sw1tchFX (Jun 4, 2008)

Why are you shooting at f/29? Open your aperture and get more light in there so you don't have to adjust your exposure in post. And what is your light source? The lighting is incredibly flat and the way it looks, I don't buy that no flash was used, it has all the characteristics of on-board flash from the shadows and specularity of the subject.


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## dslrchat (Jun 4, 2008)

There was no light, thats why I had to up the exposure when converting from raw.
F29 only because I was experimenting, the others were F5 (didnt get any in between)

The others I used OB Flash, the last 2 didnt have any, the following in the inedited




Thats why I bumped up exposure to +2.15 when converting.


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## Overread (Jun 4, 2008)

yah boosting the exposure is showing up noise and making that almost textile effect in the background areas -- just like you can never really save overexposed whites you can't save the underexposed like this.
I would go back and try more in the middle area - you are working too much in the extremes of apature (for macro)


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## dslrchat (Jun 4, 2008)

Ya, thank you.
I need to use mid F stops more when experimenting.


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## Rachelsne (Jun 4, 2008)

This is why I love this forum...lots of great advice-Im learning through you DSLRchat


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## dslrchat (Jun 5, 2008)

Now I am aware this is not an interesting subject, and even though it is not raining tonight, I decided to take another stab at this flower to see if I could improve.

I turned a light n inside the house and partially opened the door.

Manual
Speed 30 sec
F 9.0
ISO 100
Focal legnth 300mm
WB Auto

Did I improve at all?
(the reason I turned on an inside light, was and light outside gave me a shadow.

(oh, and I zoomed in on just one cluster this time)


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## kellylindseyphotography (Jun 5, 2008)

hmm well first, I'd try shooting during the day.  your, again, choosing situations that warrent advanced photography techniques and advanced lighting (when shooting at night)

Try some day shots, and learn your histogram.  You don't need to be going for 30 sec exposures


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## dslrchat (Jun 5, 2008)

The reason I was 30 second exposure, as at F9 that was the setting that had exposure meter at 0

I am reading manual (XTI) and looking look setting, trying to see where to find histogram and how to turn it on, so far the only setting I have found for histogram is
Brightness 
or
RGB
?

Oh, the only reason I had decided to try again at dark was to see if I could improve on the earlier photos


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## kellylindseyphotography (Jun 5, 2008)

ah, don't bother (IMO).  Improve by getting natural ambient light in your corner.  You will have won half the battle (and hence get rid of 30 sec exposures).

Your histogram should be gotten (if its the same as my plain ol rebel) just hit the "info" button while viewing a picture.  First, it will just display your exposure on the picture, press it one more time and it will display your histogram.  hope that helped..


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## dslrchat (Jun 5, 2008)

OK, So you see the histogram after taking a Photo and then adjust?

(now I have to learn how to read and interpret it Lol )


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## kellylindseyphotography (Jun 5, 2008)

Your picture will come up, as well as the histogram when you take it.

The histogram will show up on the right, and your picture on the left.  You will see blinking parts of your picture that are either too dark and have lost detail, or too bright and have lost detail.

If you see that, you then need to adjust your settings accordingly.

EG- you shoot and your settings are f5, SS 125.  Your histogram pops up and you have white spots flashing everywhere.  You are clearly overexposing the picture.

Bump your shutter up to 250 (or whathaveyou) and take the picture again.  

Your histogram should not have one side crowded, (either side), it hsould have an evenly diplayed range of tones (meaning it will look like hills across the total plane).

This is very basic understanding of it.. read up on it though, it's interesting stuff!


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## dslrchat (Jun 5, 2008)

Thank you, I will practice and read up on it!!!


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## dab_20 (Jun 5, 2008)

I would definitely avoid using direct flash as in your first ones, the lighting is much to harsh for your subject. I like to use a reflector, especially if the flowers are in the shade. Just using a simple white board and reflecting sunlight off of it onto your subject will create some softer lighting. Keep shooting and experimenting with different things.


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## MarcusM (Jun 5, 2008)

With that last shot it's way out of focus...I'm guessing with the 30 sec. exposure there was probably a little subject movement from wind or whatever.

I second the others' advice to not shoot these at night, it's completely unnecessary and your lighting just doesn't look good.

I think you will be amazed at the difference shooting these during the day with way shorter exposures.


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## Overread (Jun 6, 2008)

Firstly I think in your last shot you did get focus, but missed the middle of the flower and hit the petels closest to the camera - also though you were at f9 the depth of field was still very shallow. This might be plant movement which moved the plant much closer so we can't see the greater depth or you were closer this time around and now need to think of f16.
Keep practising


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## Bifurcator (Jun 6, 2008)

dslrchat said:


> Thank you, I will practice and read up on it!!!



That was a good exchange with Kelly. I think the histogram is one of the most important features in a DC - even though when they first started appearing a little over 15 years ago I went "Histograms? HISTOGRAMS!?! We don't need no stinking histograms!". I like live histogram overlays allot too!


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## LaFoto (Jun 6, 2008)

Weeeelll... I must admit I haven't read through all the replies.
The first thing I noticed is the use of flash in flower photography, which I think is a kind of no-no (when it is on-camera flash).  But I have seen as much in the other members' replies as to know that that aspect has been pointed to already.

But I came to this thread for a more general answer, less specific with regards to the photos of these particular flowers. And I just mean to share that it may, indeed, happen that we try too hard, that we get the feeling "I haven't touched the camera in days (weeks, months, whatever), I *must* go produce a good photo again at last", and the first of those photos are almost bound to not make it! (That has been my own experience). 

And it may just happen that we wish we were in "photography mode" but aren't. Like when the TPF meet-up was on right here where I live last week. I can tell from everyone else's photos appearing in the thread just now that many were well into "photo mode" and produced some amazing work. But try as I might, I seem to have been in "host mode" instead, and my photography visibly, noticeably, suffered from that. My photos are plain, uninspired, straightforward, but certainly not very interesting. 

So it also much depends on the general mood we are in if taking photos will "work", i.e. lead to something that will also capture someone else's (a neutral viewer's) eye, or if it will be "one pic out of many" that only means something to us because we were there and happen to be the authors of said photo. 

What I have found out is that once you realise you're not precisely in "photographer mode", but in some other, and still force it, it will show! I get the feeling that it DOES show in all of my meet-up pics... :roll: 

Back to the flowers, all I have to state is: no on-camera flash ... if the light is too low, wait for better light. And non-centred compositions usually work best, unless you go for a very symmetrical photo of a flower.


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## Overread (Jun 6, 2008)

someone just droped me a tip on another site with using onboard flash - he gets some toilet paper and folds it a few times and then puts this infront of his flash - holding it in place with elastic bands. He says to keep it a small distance from the flash - so I expect bending it outwards a little. Its cheap and might help.


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