# HELP! A client refuses to pay for my services.



## elizpage (Jul 21, 2014)

Hi all,

I did a portrait shoot for a guy the other day that I found on Thumbtack. After we finished the shoot, he claimed his father was busy at the time and he would have to give me a check this week, instead of when it was due.. up front. It was a $75 shoot and I spent almost an hour and a half with this guy. I got multiple bug bites. 

There was no contract involved, which is my first mistake. I operate on mutual trust between myself and clients. 

I emailed him requesting payment and that I could not deliver the prints or give him anything via. a cloud-based system until he paid. Now.. he is claiming that he can't pay me because he only has $25, and his misread the quote on his phone. What utter and complete BS.

What are my next steps? It's only $75.. I really don't want to fight about it or take this to a court of law..

*However *I provided this dude with a service that I need to be paid for it. I have bills to pay, goddamnit! I practically am doing the shoot for free anyway, it's $75 dollars.. Jesus.

Should I contact Thumbtack? It's not worth paying a lawyer for.


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## robbins.photo (Jul 21, 2014)

Well have you checked thumbtack to see if maybe you can find somebody you can pay a small fee to break both of his legs?

Lol - ok, well if not yup, I'd report him to thumbtack.  If he did it to you he'll most likely do it to somebody else, so kind of your responsibility to help inform other thumbtack users.


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## elizpage (Jul 21, 2014)

robbins.photo said:


> Well have you checked thumbtack to see if maybe you can find somebody you can pay a small fee to break both of his legs?
> 
> Lol - ok, well if not yup, I'd report him to thumbtack.  If he did it to you he'll most likely do it to somebody else, so kind of your responsibility to help inform other thumbtack users.




Yes, I have reported the douchebag. God, what a ****ing waste of time.


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## robbins.photo (Jul 21, 2014)

elizpage said:


> robbins.photo said:
> 
> 
> > Well have you checked thumbtack to see if maybe you can find somebody you can pay a small fee to break both of his legs?
> ...




Well you didn't get paid, but hey - not a waste of time.  A couple of valuable lessons learned.  First, get cash up front before you shoot anything.  Second, deep woods off.  Third, you got a chance to practice portrait shoots with a douchebag - which believe it or not can be an extremely important skill to cultivate, because, well, there is a huge market base of them available.

Lol


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## SnappingShark (Jul 21, 2014)

You're saying it's ONLY $75, but if it's ONLY $75 to you then learn from it and move on - take his $25.

Then just make sure you get a signed agreement for the amount agreed upon by both parties.


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## Tarayn (Jul 21, 2014)

Yeah take the only $25 that he has for your time and don't even let him see his pics unless he pays you the the rest $50. He's probably not going to so just take the $25 for your time.


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## sscarmack (Jul 21, 2014)

Tell him $75 or he doesn't get any photos. Simple as that. 

He'll either pay of he won't. Don't settle for anything less. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## D-B-J (Jul 21, 2014)

Contract. Contract. Contract.  Then you'll have real proof that he understood the cost, etc.


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## pgriz (Jul 21, 2014)

At the school of hard knocks, $75 is pocket change.  What lessons did you learn for the money?


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## elizpage (Jul 21, 2014)

sscarmack said:


> Tell him $75 or he doesn't get any photos. Simple as that.
> 
> He'll either pay of he won't. Don't settle for anything less.
> 
> ...




Oh, I already told him he won't be receiving any photographs. He doesn't deserve it; they are in my trash bin. I learned a lot of valuable lessons from this. I will have a contract next time, for sure.


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## timor (Jul 21, 2014)

Hike your fee to $100 and take half up front or don't touch the shutter. Or even better "acquire" D) a boyfriend / football player and have him to assist you on shoot; there will be no refusals to pay or other insults. For sure.


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## e.rose (Jul 21, 2014)

Tell him he can pay you $75 and get the photos, or get nothing at all.

And then stop using Thumbtack.

And start charging more than $75 for a shoot, dammit. :greenpbl:


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## elizpage (Jul 21, 2014)

e.rose said:


> Tell him he can pay you $75 and get the photos, or get nothing at all.
> 
> And then stop using Thumbtack.
> 
> And start charging more than $75 for a shoot, dammit. :greenpbl:



That's what I did. Followed by closing my Thumbtack account. Now.. back to the drawing board on how to advertise.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Jul 21, 2014)

elizpage said:


> It's only $75.. I really don't want to fight about it or take this to a court of law..
> 
> It's not worth paying a lawyer for.



Would having a contract change anything in this situation?


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## robbins.photo (Jul 21, 2014)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> elizpage said:
> 
> 
> > It's only $75.. I really don't want to fight about it or take this to a court of law..
> ...



Well, had it been carved into the side of a 2x4.....  lol


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## pgriz (Jul 21, 2014)

I deal with retail clients every day as a contractor.  My jobs can be as cheap as $80 or as expensive as $90,000.  One thing I've learned over the years is to ask for a substantial deposit at the time of the signed contract.  Has the amazing effect of scaring off the pretenders.  Of course, serious people don't fork out several thousand dollars (and some deposits are up to $20,000) without also being sure that I am legitimate and won't disappear on them.  So licenses, permits, tax ID numbers, an official place of business, verifiable insurance, all play a part in making me "real".  Unlike many in my field, everything I do or will supply/deliver is described in detail in writing, both to protect me and to protect my client.


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## KmH (Jul 21, 2014)

elizpage said:


> What are my next steps?


You don't need an attorney to use small claims court.
Verbal agreements are contracts, but it's his version against your version.
When a contract is on paper, all parties to the contract have a copy of the same version, each copy signed by all the parties to the contract.

The common retail photography business practice is to require a retainer (or a deposit) when a client books an appointment. Like 1/3 ($25) to 1/2 of the up front cost.
If the retainer/deposit is to small it's to easy for people to walk away.
No pay. No appointment. Your contract details what happens if the client cancels the appointment - before a cutoff date - and after a cutoff date.
A retainer is generally non-refundable, but a deposit is. Laws vary by state.

You get paid for the shoot in advance. You may elect to let a client pay in some number of payments as long as you are paid in full by the booked appointment.
No Pay. No Shoot.
As above, you contract specifies what happens if someone is not prepared to pay in full when the appointment time has been reached

This is all just common sense business 101 - Introduction to Business - stuff. Like how McDonalds makes you pay before they start cooking your hamburger.

Do you have a legal, registered with the city and state, business? Do you have business liability insurance, keep the required financial records, etc?


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## AlanKlein (Jul 21, 2014)

Small contracts can be formalized by a simple email after agreeing verbally. Something like, 


_"Confirming our discussion on 7-21-14, you will pay me $75, 1/3 prior to the photo shoot an 2/3 at the photoshoot.   The photohoot will take place for two hours at location xyz.  Photos in digital form will be provided by me within 48 hours after the shoot."

Please confirm by email return.     Liz_

Obviously, this is only an example.  Actual terms you establish and agree to would vary.  The point is something confirming in writing avoids arguments.

Which remind me of the famous Yogi-ism of Louis B. Mayer of the Hollywood film company MGM said decades ago._  "A verbal contract isn't worth the paper it's printed on."_


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## Vince.1551 (Jul 22, 2014)

Just post that freeloader's photos and mobile onto Craiglist and say Free Cleaning Services. 

You know I'm jk right?


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## Designer (Jul 22, 2014)

elizpage said:


> he is claiming that he can't pay me because he only has $25,



In case you hadn't noticed, the world is full of people like this.  His father is no doubt the same.  In fact, that is probably where he got it. 

If I were you, I'd keep the photos handy in case you get sued.  Meanwhile, if he asks again, tell him your standard fee has risen to $100, so that is how much he has to pay.  Fees rise all the time, and just his darn luck, it happened right when he hadn't yet paid.  Darn!


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## astroNikon (Jul 22, 2014)

I think she already moved on ....

but
Just don't take any money.  Even if a partial payment in your eyes it increases your liability since there is no contract.


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## TCampbell (Jul 22, 2014)

You could take his 1/3rd of the fee... and then email him all the images... cropped to show only the left 1/3rd of the frame.  

Not getting paid up front (or at least enough of a deposit to make it worth your while) and not having anything in writing to indicate the offer for, and acceptance of, the terms... it was probably inevitable that this would eventually happen to you.


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## Robin Usagani (Jul 22, 2014)

I do not have a contract when I shoot portraits.  The only time I have a contract is for a wedding.  If this happened to me, I would just not deliver the photos and move on.


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## IzzieK (Jul 22, 2014)

Quote from Eliz original post...





> I emailed him requesting payment and that I could not deliver the prints or give him anything via. a cloud-based system until he paid. Now.. he is claiming that he can't pay me because he only has $25, and his *misread the quote on his phone*. ...




In short, she negotiated her price via texting. They have a contract! If a verbal agreement is also considered a contract, then a text message agreement is more of a contract too.


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## tecboy (Jul 22, 2014)

Did the client say anything about the photos you shot?


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## Tee (Jul 22, 2014)

Why not charge $75 as the session/sitting fee ahead of time?  An additional charge for prints or digital files can be done afterwards.  5 for $25, 10 for $50, etc.  That way you're paid in advance for your time and they can choose a print package.  You end up making more in the long run than a flat rate of $75.


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## robbins.photo (Jul 22, 2014)

Well even if you wanted to go that route and head off to small claims court, your looking at more time lost and more hassle.  First you have to find out what the filing fee for a small claims court case is in your area, a lot of those are close to $100 just to start with - so unless you can convince the judge to award you that fee plus the $75 your already looking at a losing proposition.  But lets assume best case scenario you file, you win, and Herr Douchebag is ordered to pay by the court.  Well, odds are good Herr Douchebag won't.

So then you have to go jump through a lot more hoops, file a bunch of additional crap with the court to have their wages garnished, which only works if they have an employer and you can find out who that is, and well - there are additional fees involved for that filing too - so ya, probably not worth the hassle, at all.  So even if you were to win a judgment that included the $100 or so in filing fees you'd need to shell out you'd have to wait to recoup that money, minus whatever you'd have to spend to have the wages garnished assuming you could even do so successfully which honestly with people like this is a coin flip at best.

Personally if you want my advice - walk away, buy some deep woods off, and just be firm about getting paid at least something up front next time.


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## ronlane (Jul 22, 2014)

Don't look at it as wasting your time. If you were shooting and editing you were working on your skills. You also got photos that could possibly be used in your portfolio and a free model.


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## Designer (Jul 22, 2014)

TCampbell said:


> You could take his 1/3rd of the fee... and then email him all the images... cropped to show only the left 1/3rd of the frame.



FTW!!!


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## Derrel (Jul 22, 2014)

TCampbell said:


> You could take his 1/3rd of the fee... and then email him all the images... cropped to show only the left 1/3rd of the frame.
> 
> Not getting paid up front (or at least enough of a deposit to make it worth your while) and not having anything in writing to indicate the offer for, and acceptance of, the terms... it was probably inevitable that this would eventually happen to you.



And make sure to let him know that you are accepting his $25 payment and that you are,  "*Very happy to be able to give you 66% percent off on all of your photos!*"


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## vintagesnaps (Jul 23, 2014)

I started to comment on this the other day then never got back to it, but I think it's a situation where it can be necessary to figure out a way to work something out. If you're being paid I think that puts you into being in business or at least heading in that direction, and it seems better to have everything in writing so it's clear what the amount is that's owed and when it needs to be paid etc. It can help to be able to refer back to a written agreement as a reminder when needed. 

If this was the young man that you posted about taking headshots last week and he needed money from his dad I wondered if he's underage (and would need a parent to sign off on it) or if he's over 18 and responsible for payment but may not be financially independent. Either way I'd consider options like accepting the $25 as a deposit and giving him a timeframe for the balance due to be paid (maybe a couple of weeks to allow for another pay day, or give it 30 days or til the end of August - I probably wouldn't want to leave it hanging indefinitely). 

However you said something about trashing the photos and if the originals were destroyed that obviously doesn't seem to give you much of an option here other than he didn't pay the full amount and won't receive the photos. I think the potential problem with that is he paid what he might consider partial payment, what if he intends to pay the balance? Not much you could then I don't think if you have no pictures to provide. 

Seems too that you'd commented about considering offering a reshoot because of the way the photos turned out (and got some critique). To charge for your photography I think it's necessary to be able to provide good quality photos on a consistent basis so clients will be satisfied and you can build your photography business successfully. I'm wondering if you aren't jumping into this rather fast and could use more skill development and practice first. 

Even when you feel like you're in the right, there probably will be situations like this where even though the other person screwed up and didn't follow thru, or keeps cancelling, or wants something unreasonable, etc. it can be a matter sometimes of figuring out solutions to problems while maintaining your policies.


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## limr (Jul 23, 2014)

A verbal contract is still legally binding even if nothing is in writing (except for a few things that must be in writing, like real estate or transactions over a certain dollar amount - iirc, it's $500.) The only difference is that it's harder to prove the terms if they come under dispute.

Even so, there's no point in going to court over $75, a judgment which might not even cover your filing fees.

Live, learn, move on.


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## imagemaker46 (Jul 24, 2014)

The only time I use contracts is when the client offers me one, I trust my clients, and they trust me to deliver the images they want.   I assume the Op hasn't been in the "professional photo" business for very long.   There won't be a winner coming from this photo shoot, best just leave it and walk away.  As much as the Op needs the $75, it's just not going to happen.  Take it as a life lesson, or a professional photographer lesson.


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## gsgary (Jul 24, 2014)

robbins.photo said:


> Well have you checked thumbtack to see if maybe you can find somebody you can pay a small fee to break both of his legs?
> 
> Lol - ok, well if not yup, I'd report him to thumbtack.  If he did it to you he'll most likely do it to somebody else, so kind of your responsibility to help inform other thumbtack users.



Just what i was going to say, you could go round and slash all his tyres if he has a car


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