# Modifying Current Film to Fit 130 Film Size Camera



## Fragomeni

Hello everyone. I have a 2c Autographic Folding Brownie (Kodak) that I'm currently restoring. The camera's production span was from 1916-26 and it used the long dead 130 film. I am trying to find the best course of action to use current production 120 film in it once it is back in working order. I know that it can be done but I'd like to know if it can by simply re-spooling 120 onto the 130 spools without modification to the spools or camera. I know that re-spooling works but because of the difference in length of spools (120 vs 130) I suspect the film may shift positions inside the camera if nothing is done to the 130 spools. Does anyone have experience with this particular conversion?

Thanks in advance


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## Mike_E

Try checking around for some 5mm gasket material and cutting out a shim for either side (inside o'course) of the 130mm spools.

If the material is hard enough you could do the same to 120 spools on the outside remembering to cut out the bits for the sprockets.


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## Fragomeni

I'll try that. So basically you mean use the gasket material to create padding if you will on both ends of the 130 spools so that I can re-spool 120 onto them and maintain the film on center as it moves frame by frame within the camera during shooting. That sound about right?


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## Mitica100

Fragomeni said:


> I'll try that. So basically you mean use the gasket material to create padding if you will on both ends of the 130 spools so that I can re-spool 120 onto them and maintain the film on center as it moves frame by frame within the camera during shooting. That sound about right?



Hi, nice to meet someone else from Phoenix Arizona. I just returned from Italy last week, been to Rome for two weeks.

Anyway, there is more instruction to be had on this subject:

_"You can use 120 film in these larger cameras. I have done this by making little extensions to the 120 spool by cutting off the ends of a spare spool, and attaching them to the film spool using headless screws. You would have to mask the film gate to the size required.

I don't know where the film numbers would appear in the red window of your camera, it may be possible to offset the film to allow the appropriate set of numbers to appear.

I have even used 35mm film, the cassette can be wedged in using blue tac or similar. In this case you must block the red window with tape and guess how many turns to wind on between frames, after practising with a scrap film. You can get panoramic pictures this way - the viewfinder would have to be masked to suit."_

From *THIS* site.


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## Fragomeni

Mitica100 said:


> Fragomeni said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll try that. So basically you mean use the gasket material to create padding if you will on both ends of the 130 spools so that I can re-spool 120 onto them and maintain the film on center as it moves frame by frame within the camera during shooting. That sound about right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi, nice to meet someone else from Phoenix Arizona. I just returned from Italy last week, been to Rome for two weeks.
> 
> Anyway, there is more instruction to be had on this subject:
> 
> _"You can use 120 film in these larger cameras. I have done this by making little extensions to the 120 spool by cutting off the ends of a spare spool, and attaching them to the film spool using headless screws. You would have to mask the film gate to the size required.
> 
> I don't know where the film numbers would appear in the red window of your camera, it may be possible to offset the film to allow the appropriate set of numbers to appear.
> 
> I have even used 35mm film, the cassette can be wedged in using blue tac or similar. In this case you must block the red window with tape and guess how many turns to wind on between frames, after practising with a scrap film. You can get panoramic pictures this way - the viewfinder would have to be masked to suit."_
> 
> From *THIS* site.
Click to expand...


Likewise, pleasure to meet another Phoenician. Thanks so much for that link, its hugely helpful. I might give it a go with photo paper as mentioned in the link just to see what kind of results I get but Im still going to try to do the spool conversion so that I can shoot 120 with this camera. I'll have to play around with the numbering on the paper backing to see if it shows up properly or to figure out a way to get proper numbering to show up through the window. I suppose I could always figure out the proper location for the numbers relative to each frame and manually write them in as I re-spool (kill two birds with one stone sort of thing).

Also, Dimitri (oddly enough my middle name is Dimitri!), I checked out your website and you have a great collection! Do you sell any of your collection? I see a few that I'd love to get my hands on  Anyway, I'll probably be checking out some of those repair resources you listed on your page just to avoid risk of ruining anything. I'm confident I can replace the bellows on my own but I'd beat myself up if I ruined the camera.


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## Mitica100

Fragomeni said:


> Likewise, pleasure to meet another Phoenician. Thanks so much for that link, its hugely helpful. I might give it a go with photo paper as mentioned in the link just to see what kind of results I get but Im still going to try to do the spool conversion so that I can shoot 120 with this camera. I'll have to play around with the numbering on the paper backing to see if it shows up properly or to figure out a way to get proper numbering to show up through the window. I suppose I could always figure out the proper location for the numbers relative to each frame and manually write them in as I re-spool (kill two birds with one stone sort of thing).
> 
> Also, Dimitri (oddly enough my middle name is Dimitri!), I checked out your website and you have a great collection! Do you sell any of your collection? I see a few that I'd love to get my hands on  Anyway, I'll probably be checking out some of those repair resources you listed on your page just to avoid risk of ruining anything. I'm confident I can replace the bellows on my own but I'd beat myself up if I ruined the camera.



Ha! I guess Dimitri is a camera collector's name! LOL

Do I sell some of my collection? Of course I do, cameras come and cameras go, I let them see the world, not only the shelf that they sit on. In any case, fire me an email at mitica100@aol.com and we'll chat more.


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## Fragomeni

Mitica100 said:


> Fragomeni said:
> 
> 
> 
> Likewise, pleasure to meet another Phoenician. Thanks so much for that link, its hugely helpful. I might give it a go with photo paper as mentioned in the link just to see what kind of results I get but Im still going to try to do the spool conversion so that I can shoot 120 with this camera. I'll have to play around with the numbering on the paper backing to see if it shows up properly or to figure out a way to get proper numbering to show up through the window. I suppose I could always figure out the proper location for the numbers relative to each frame and manually write them in as I re-spool (kill two birds with one stone sort of thing).
> 
> Also, Dimitri (oddly enough my middle name is Dimitri!), I checked out your website and you have a great collection! Do you sell any of your collection? I see a few that I'd love to get my hands on  Anyway, I'll probably be checking out some of those repair resources you listed on your page just to avoid risk of ruining anything. I'm confident I can replace the bellows on my own but I'd beat myself up if I ruined the camera.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ha! I guess Dimitri is a camera collector's name! LOL
> 
> Do I sell some of my collection? Of course I do, cameras come and cameras go, I let them see the world, not only the shelf that they sit on. In any case, fire me an email at mitica100@aol.com and we'll chat more.
Click to expand...


Hahaha, I guess so! And yes I will definitely be firing you an email to see if I can make any of those beauties mine!


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## compur

I saw one of these cameras at a camera show that had been converted to 
use 120 film.  It had a mask made of sheet metal at the film gate to take up 
the extra space and some sort of extensions for the spool (don't remember
exactly how that was done).  It was simple but pretty nifty.

But, I remember thinking it might be better to convert it for sheet film by 
getting a junker camera and using the back from that and hacking a sheet 
film holder adapter out of it.  Why waste that big image circle on 120 film?


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## Fragomeni

compur said:


> I saw one of these cameras at a camera show that had been converted to
> use 120 film.  It had a mask made of sheet metal at the film gate to take up
> the extra space and some sort of extensions for the spool (don't remember
> exactly how that was done).  It was simple but pretty nifty.
> 
> But, I remember thinking it might be better to convert it for sheet film by
> getting a junker camera and using the back from that and hacking a sheet
> film holder adapter out of it.  Why waste that big image circle on 120 film?



Im not sure I know what you mean by "mask at the film gate". The spools wouldn't be much of an issue as that would be a simple mod that could be solved any number of ways but would this mask be necessary? My thinking is that if you modify the spools properly so that the 120 film sits dead center and has no room to move off track then it should just be plug and play from there as far as getting the film in and shooting but please correct me if Im wrong. Of course you'll end up with some cropping due to the size difference but that can be accounted for through some trial and error. 

As to the photo paper, I really like this idea mainly because it eliminates the  size mismatch between what the camera can do and the smaller 120 film size. I have an extra of this model on the way (junk condition of course) that I can hack to bits so how would you go about creating this sheet film holder adapter? I'll have to take a look at them and see if I could figure out a good plan but if you have any ideas please let me know (diagrams/ pictures would help a lot!).

I'll play around with them and see if I can come up with something.


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## compur

I suppose you could do it without a mask but the purpose is to keep the film
flat.  Otherwise the film is floating in space with only support at the ends.

Roll film is normally supported on all 4 sides with a pressure plate at the rear 
to press against it to keep it flat.  Any "unflatness" can result in out of focus
areas.


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## Fragomeni

compur said:


> I suppose you could do it without a mask but the purpose is to keep the film
> flat.  Otherwise the film is floating in space with only support at the ends.
> 
> Roll film is normally supported on all 4 sides with a pressure plate at the rear
> to press against it to keep it flat.  Any "unflatness" can result in out of focus
> areas.



That makes sense but the 2c Autographic doesn't have a pressure plate in the first place and original 130 film would have only been supported by the tension at the spools on the ends so there should be no difference in how any other film is held flat in the body. I can see this fabricated plate being a good idea but not necessary at all (i think).

I'll be experimenting with this and I'll be sure to keep you all posted


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## alimac2009

Fragomeni said:


> Mitica100 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fragomeni said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll try that. So basically you mean use the gasket material to create padding if you will on both ends of the 130 spools so that I can re-spool 120 onto them and maintain the film on center as it moves frame by frame within the camera during shooting. That sound about right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi, nice to meet someone else from Phoenix Arizona. I just returned from Italy last week, been to Rome for two weeks.
> 
> Anyway, there is more instruction to be had on this subject:
> 
> _"You can use 120 film in these larger cameras. I have done this by making little extensions to the 120 spool by cutting off the ends of a spare spool, and attaching them to the film spool using headless screws. You would have to mask the film gate to the size required.
> 
> I don't know where the film numbers would appear in the red window of your camera, it may be possible to offset the film to allow the appropriate set of numbers to appear.
> 
> I have even used 35mm film, the cassette can be wedged in using blue tac or similar. In this case you must block the red window with tape and guess how many turns to wind on between frames, after practising with a scrap film. You can get panoramic pictures this way - the viewfinder would have to be masked to suit."_
> 
> From *THIS* site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Likewise, pleasure to meet another Phoenician. Thanks so much for that link, its hugely helpful. I might give it a go with photo paper as mentioned in the link just to see what kind of results I get but Im still going to try to do the spool conversion so that I can shoot 120 with this camera. I'll have to play around with the numbering on the paper backing to see if it shows up properly or to figure out a way to get proper numbering to show up through the window. I suppose I could always figure out the proper location for the numbers relative to each frame and manually write them in as I re-spool (kill two birds with one stone sort of thing).
> 
> Also, Dimitri (oddly enough my middle name is Dimitri!), I checked out your website and you have a great collection! Do you sell any of your collection? I see a few that I'd love to get my hands on  Anyway, I'll probably be checking out some of those repair resources you listed on your page just to avoid risk of ruining anything. I'm confident I can replace the bellows on my own but I'd beat myself up if I ruined the camera.
Click to expand...


I am faced with the same situation here with needing to convert the film to fit this same camera. My problem is, I am a beginner and I have no idea what you are talking about as far as the steps go!! Is there any way you can explain it in beginner format? I would greatly appreciate it. Also I saw someone on here talk about converting 35mm into this camera? I would really rather like to know how to do that, I can get a hold of 35mm film a LOT easier than I could with 120 film. the Film you are talking about with 120, that is still autographic film right? Im not sure I even know the difference between "130 autographic film" and the film we use for 35mm.


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## Proteus617

alimac2009 said:


> the Film you are talking about with 120, that is still autographic film right? Im not sure I even know the difference between "130 autographic film" and the film we use for 35mm.



No.  Rollfilm (except 220) has a paper backing.  Autographic rollfilm had a layer of carbon paper between the backing and the film so you could write on your negs in camera.  That's what the little door on the back of your cam is for. 



alimac2009 said:


> Also I saw someone on here talk about converting 35mm into this camera? I would really rather like to know how to do that, I can get a hold of 35mm film a LOT easier than I could with 120 film.



I'm sure you could figure this out yourself.  Open your camera and check there is an empty spool on the take-up side.  Using for 35mm in your camera involves cramming a 35 cartridge on the feed side and packing with something so it stays centered and doesn't move around.  Pull out some leader and tape it to the center of the take-up spool.  Sacrifice a roll of film and use a sharpie to figure out how many turns of the advance key are required to advance the film one frame.  Tape up the windows on the back of your cam (they are useless with 35mm and will fog your film).  Shoot a roll, go into a very dark room and manually rewind your film back into the cartridge.  Have fun getting a lab to print a 5 inch long 35mm negative.


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