# Best baby of 2014 so far!



## CorrieMichael

C&C always welcome 
1.
2.3.4.5.6.


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## pjaye

The poses in this all look really awkward and uncomfortable. The baby looks too big for the props and so the neck is bent at a weird angle - especially in numer 3.. The body is twisted in the first one.


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## BrickHouse

You are a professional, I am not.  However, I am a physician, and I would think very very hard about how you pose infants in the future.  The positioning of the head and neck on most of these is dangerous at best.  Beautiful images but I would be very deliberate in the future to try to maintain the airway and spinal column in as neutral a position as possible. My 2 cents.


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## manaheim

Why all landscape?  Some of those seem like they want to be portrait.

The quality of your images and lighting seem very nice.

I'm not a pro baby photog either, but I agree with some of the previous comments. I also reeeeeeeeeeeeally don't like the whole cutesy baby image thing that people do these days... all the props and stuff. So, I'm biased.


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## ronlane

#1 & 4 are my favorites.


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## NedM

Man that baby looks uncomfortable. Try going for a more delicate look and study on more baby poses. Try pinterest!


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## CorrieMichael

Thanks so much for all of your awesome professional input.  ha!  I have come a very long way from my start in newborn photography. This baby is comfortable as when I pose I let them guide me when posing.  Some of these images are composite shots.  If I have said it once I have said it a thousand times.  I took a professional baby posing workshop with a leading newborn photographer.  I have done my research.  All of these poses are natural I can assure you as this baby is ONLY 5 days old and still very squishy and fresh out of the womb.  Again, if baby doesn't want to cooperate in any pose they don't and not every baby will go naturally into every pose.  That is why you let them guide you again as I have said before.  I can assure you I won't post here again.  I will post where there is more appreciation for newborn photography!


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## CorrieMichael

BrickHouse said:


> You are a professional, I am not.  However, I am a physician, and I would think very very hard about how you pose infants in the future.  The positioning of the head and neck on most of these is dangerous at best.  Beautiful images but I would be very deliberate in the future to try to maintain the airway and spinal column in as neutral a position as possible. My 2 cents.



Thanks for all of your GREAT input!


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## BrickHouse

CorrieMichael said:


> Thanks so much for all of your awesome professional input.  ha!  I have come a very long way from my start in newborn photography. This baby is comfortable as when I pose I let them guide me when posing.  Some of these images are composite shots.  If I have said it once I have said it a thousand times.  I took a professional baby posing workshop with a leading newborn photographer.  I have done my research.  All of these poses are natural I can assure you as this baby is ONLY 5 days old and still very squishy and fresh out of the womb.  Again, if baby doesn't want to cooperate in any pose they don't and not every baby will go naturally into every pose.  That is why you let them guide you again as I have said before.  I can assure you I won't post here again.  I will post where there is more appreciation for newborn photography!



I apologize if I offended you. Your pictures are beautiful. However, despite any professional posing classes you may have taken, I assure you I have trained far far far longer to keep humans alive. The two basket poses are extremely dangerous. They both exhibit a near obstructive airway position. Every single day I see how that type of head position can cause a drop in oxygenation within literally minutes. Neonates don't know how to control their heads and cannot control their own airway. A neonate left unattended in an improperly fit carseat will suffocate in minutes despite "leading" you to think they are comfortable. Again, you take wonderful pictures, just do them in a safer way. Then again, what the heck do I care what you do. It's your conscience when you let an infant lead you to a pose that causes them to desaturate and develop cerebral palsy and live in a wheelchair the rest of their life. Best of luck!


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## CorrieMichael

NedM said:


> Man that baby looks uncomfortable. Try going for a more delicate look and study on more baby poses. Try pinterest!




I think that you should have a look on pinterest   You would find a lot of these poses.....Also I don't recommend looking on pinterest without any knowledge of baby posing then trying to pose a baby like that.  DEFINITELY......you need to know how to pose, I would never pose a baby without a professional showing your or mentoring you. You are dealing with very fragile little beings and you should know what you are doing!


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## CorrieMichael

BrickHouse said:


> CorrieMichael said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks so much for all of your awesome professional input.  ha!  I have come a very long way from my start in newborn photography. This baby is comfortable as when I pose I let them guide me when posing.  Some of these images are composite shots.  If I have said it once I have said it a thousand times.  I took a professional baby posing workshop with a leading newborn photographer.  I have done my research.  All of these poses are natural I can assure you as this baby is ONLY 5 days old and still very squishy and fresh out of the womb.  Again, if baby doesn't want to cooperate in any pose they don't and not every baby will go naturally into every pose.  That is why you let them guide you again as I have said before.  I can assure you I won't post here again.  I will post where there is more appreciation for newborn photography!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I apologize if I offended you. Your pictures are beautiful. However, despite any professional posing classes you may have taken, I assure you I have trained far far far longer to keep humans alive. The two basket poses are extremely dangerous. They both exhibit a near obstructive airway position. Every single day I see how that type of head position can cause a drop in oxygenation within literally minutes. Neonates don't know how to control their heads and cannot control their own airway. A neonate left unattended in an improperly fit carseat will suffocate in minutes despite "leading" you to think they are comfortable. Again, you take wonderful pictures, just do them in a safer way. Then again, what the heck do I care what you do. It's your conscience when you let an infant lead you to a pose that causes them to desaturate and develop cerebral palsy and live in a wheelchair the rest of their life. Best of luck!
Click to expand...


Absolutely you have not offended me at all! Best of luck to you too!


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## pixmedic

Im curious as to how many seminars the Doctor took on pediatric airway alignment.
I only have 16 hours of pediatric advanced life support, and 24 hours of CCT pediatric airway support as a Medic. (on top of my vent training)
Just from a pediatric airway standpoint, I would never let an infant patients head lay like #2 and #3.
Granted, MY training is just with Doctors, CCT medics and CCRN's....not photographers...so...your mileage may vary. 
All you have to do is turn your own head and tuck your chin down and you can _*feel*_ , albeit slightly, how the airflow is restricted. 
an infants trachea is much softer than an adults,much smaller,  and is much more easily restricted. 
an infant is also much less resilient to drops in their Sa02 levels. 
noone is saying you endangered the child, or that the child's air was cut off...only that the position the baby is in is not optimal. 
from a photography critique standpoint, these photos are very good, and you should definitely be pleased with them. 
but I digress...

you stated in your OP that C&C was always welcome, yet you did not respond to it very well. 
just because people have a different opinion than you concerning your work, it does not constitute an attack on it. 
I think this forum greatly appreciates _*all*_ types of photography, newborns included, but if you respond poorly to anything but positive feedback and glowing reviews....you might discover a dislike for all critique forums.


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## robbins.photo

Well not a doctor and never played one on tv, and sadly I'm banned from all holiday inns worldwide - it's kind of a long story.

However I say if you are going to put a baby in a bucket don't wuss out, do it right and dangle that sucker over a shark tank.



Sent from my LG-LG730 using Tapatalk


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## CorrieMichael

pixmedic said:


> Im curious as to how many seminars the Doctor took on pediatric airway alignment.
> I only have 16 hours of pediatric advanced life support, and 24 hours of CCT pediatric airway support as a Medic. (on top of my vent training)
> Just from a pediatric airway standpoint, I would never let an infant patients head lay like #2 and #3.
> Granted, MY training is just with Doctors, CCT medics and CCRN's....not photographers...so...your mileage may vary.
> All you have to do is turn your own head and tuck your chin down and you can _*feel*_ , albeit slightly, how the airflow is restricted.
> an infants trachea is much softer than an adults,much smaller,  and is much more easily restricted.
> an infant is also much less resilient to drops in their Sa02 levels.
> noone is saying you endangered the child, or that the child's air was cut off...only that the position the baby is in is not optimal.
> from a photography critique standpoint, these photos are very good, and you should definitely be pleased with them.
> but I digress...
> 
> you stated in your OP that C&C was always welcome, yet you did not respond to it very well.
> just because people have a different opinion than you concerning your work, it does not constitute an attack on it.
> I think this forum greatly appreciates _*all*_ types of photography, newborns included, but if you respond poorly to anything but positive feedback and glowing reviews....you might discover a dislike for all critique forums.




Thanks so much for all your well thought out critique.  I will definitely consider this greatly.  I would love to be well received as well along with my opinions....it's a two way street.  You will find that sometimes does work out pretty well.  Again thanks for you time and effort into your critique!  I really do appreciate it.  I was just offering my side.  Which obviously wasn't well received either.


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## CorrieMichael

Also I am not actually sure I have ever really had good feedback on here.  The best I've gotten is "meh....not bad"  lol  Which I am fine with.  If you look through my posts you will see I can take my fair share of critique....mean, nice and otherwise!


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## pixmedic

CorrieMichael said:


> Also I am not actually sure I have ever really had good feedback on here.  The best I've gotten is "meh....not bad"  lol  Which I am fine with.  If you look through my posts you will see I can take my fair share of critique....mean, nice and otherwise!



you just got good feedback on these pictures. 
(don't feel bad, i have the same problem)

if its a matter of pointing out what we think is _*right*_ with the photos as well....
framing is _*good*_. (#3 and #4 I would have shot portrait)
color is _*good*_. 
focus is _*good*_. 
WB is _*good*_. 
DOF is _*good*_ except for #6 where i would personally prefer that all of the baby is in focus. (my thoughts on DOF are well established on these types of photos...strictly a personal preference) also, the brown fabric that trails away from the baby is distracting. i would tuck that behind the baby so only the blue is visible in the background. 
focal length choice is _*good*_. 
lighting is good, assuming  just natural light is used. there's a few where the lighting is a bit uneven. i would say fill flash but...i know how "flash" suggestions are amongst baby photographers. 
I don't usually care for vignetting, but I think it works well where you applied it. 

overall, this is a _*great*_ set.  I would be pleased to give these to clients. I would be pleased to have these in my portfolio. 
if the _*only*_ nitpic I got on MY photos were some posing concerns, I would be like "yup, ill keep an eye on that next time" and then go dance in the street.


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## BrickHouse

pixmedic said:


> Im curious as to how many seminars the Doctor took on pediatric airway alignment.
> I only have 16 hours of pediatric advanced life support, and 24 hours of CCT pediatric airway support as a Medic. (on top of my vent training)
> Just from a pediatric airway standpoint, I would never let an infant patients head lay like #2 and #3.
> Granted, MY training is just with Doctors, CCT medics and CCRN's....not photographers...so...your mileage may vary.



I'm a Family Medicine physician in the Navy so we are basically the jack of all trades people. Because of that, the Navy uses us as such. They send us out as ER docs, obstetricians, clinic docs, sports med docs, and hospitalists. We run ICUs, NICUs and about every other non-specialist facet of medicine so they spend a considerate amount of time training us in adult, pediatric, and neonatal airway and intensive care. The respiratory techs and pulmonary/critical care/intensivists still blow me out of the water with knowledge but in most places around the world, I can hang. In addition to getting to practice this incredibly wide scope of practice, I get the pleasure of taking care of Marines, Sailors, and their family every single day.


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## charlie76

Id be more careful...I agree with the comments above. But nice shots of course


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## pixmedic

BrickHouse said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Im curious as to how many seminars the Doctor took on pediatric airway alignment.
> I only have 16 hours of pediatric advanced life support, and 24 hours of CCT pediatric airway support as a Medic. (on top of my vent training)
> Just from a pediatric airway standpoint, I would never let an infant patients head lay like #2 and #3.
> Granted, MY training is just with Doctors, CCT medics and CCRN's....not photographers...so...your mileage may vary.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a Family Medicine physician in the Navy so we are basically the jack of all trades people. Because of that, the Navy uses us as such. They send us out as ER docs, obstetricians, clinic docs, sports med docs, and hospitalists. We run ICUs, NICUs and about every other non-specialist facet of medicine so they spend a considerate amount of time training us in adult, pediatric, and neonatal airway and intensive care. The respiratory techs and pulmonary/critical care/intensivists still blow me out of the water with knowledge but in most places around the world, I can hang. In addition to getting to practice this incredibly wide scope of practice, I get the pleasure of taking care of Marines, Sailors, and their family every single day.
Click to expand...


dont want to derail the thread but...
i would never make it through the schooling it takes to be a doctor. 
im getting ready to do the PMD to RN bridge program, and aside from maybe a BSN and some nurse specializations, thats about it for me moving up the medical ladder. 
you guys have to put in more clinical hours and CEU's than i even want to _*think*_ about. 
all I have to do is get the PT to you guys alive...real definitive care and diagnostics happen in the hospital.


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## runnah

pixmedic said:


> dont want to derail the thread but... i would never make it through the schooling it takes to be a doctor. im getting ready to do the PMD to RN bridge program, and aside from maybe a BSN and some nurse specializations, thats about it for me moving up the medical ladder. you guys have to put in more clinical hours and CEU's than i even want to think about. all I have to do is get the PT to you guys alive...real definitive care and diagnostics happen in the hospital.



Also doctors don't get a big truck with flashing lights.


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## robbins.photo

CorrieMichael said:


> Also I am not actually sure I have ever really had good feedback on here.  The best I've gotten is "meh....not bad"  lol  Which I am fine with.  If you look through my posts you will see I can take my fair share of critique....mean, nice and otherwise!



Well depends on the individual of course, as for me I don't give C&C.  If I can't honestly say I really like/love a picture I don't comment on it at all.


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## BrickHouse

> dont want to derail the thread but...
> i would never make it through the schooling it takes to be a doctor.
> im getting ready to do the PMD to RN bridge program, and aside from maybe a BSN and some nurse specializations, thats about it for me moving up the medical ladder.
> you guys have to put in more clinical hours and CEU's than i even want to _*think*_ about.
> all I have to do is get the PT to you guys alive...real definitive care and diagnostics happen in the hospital.



You should consider PA school! If you made through paramedic school you would make it through PA or med school. The thing to think about is what part of the team do you want to fulfill. Do you want to be hands-on, with the patient, at the bedside, actually doing things, then nursing. Do you want to be in the field running and gunning where the action is, stay paramedic. Do you want to spend 80 hours a week (yes, I work 80 hours a week, not paycheck) typing at a computer, then doctor. Do you want to do everything a doctor does but only work 40 hours a week, then PA/NP. There's nothing special about the people who get to the doctor level, we're just really good at putting off real life for a long time and we seem to be gluttons for punishment.


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## BrickHouse

runnah said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> 
> dont want to derail the thread but... i would never make it through the schooling it takes to be a doctor. im getting ready to do the PMD to RN bridge program, and aside from maybe a BSN and some nurse specializations, thats about it for me moving up the medical ladder. you guys have to put in more clinical hours and CEU's than i even want to think about. all I have to do is get the PT to you guys alive...real definitive care and diagnostics happen in the hospital.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also doctors don't get a big truck with flashing lights.
Click to expand...


No, unfortunately we don't. I can still remember the rush of running code to some place when I was an EMT. I will say though, I traded that in for jets and giant boats with guns and bombs and that can be kind of cool.


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## manaheim

#1 rule in getting critique... don't argue with those providing it, and don't explain or defend your work.

If you feel strongly enough that you work is good, then it should be able to defend itself.


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## The_Traveler

If I were the OP, I'd be checking my liability insurance right this moment.
She has just received, on the Internet where information never goes away, advice that some of her posing positions were potentially dangerous for newborns.
And her reply was that she took a 5 day course in posing infants.

She had better hope that none of the infants posed in this way ever shows up with a developmental defect that can be linked, however tenuously, to oxygen deprivation during early stages because she will be in front of a lawsuit faster than she can think.

For the future, when a qualified health professional gives you advice, the answer is not that you took a 5 day course and so you know better.


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## manaheim

The_Traveler said:


> If I were the OP, I'd be checking my liability insurance right this moment.
> She has just received, on the Internet where information never goes away, advice that some of her posing positions were potentially dangerous for newborns.



...from a trained paramedic.


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## paigew

Corrie I think these are really beautiful. I know you would never put a baby in a dangerous position :heart:. And anyone who has ever had a baby knows they really aren't all that fragile  

As for the poses in question, the baby is laying flat on his back, I would assume it is more the angle of the shot that makes the neck appear to be squished down. Lying flat on your back it would be hard to cut off airways. And no, these are not natural poses. But obviously no one would hire you to do natural type poses since you do, ummm....POSED NEWBORNS! 

Great work lady :hugs:


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## paigew

pixmedic said:


> CorrieMichael said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also I am not actually sure I have ever really had good feedback on here.  The best I've gotten is "meh....not bad"  lol  Which I am fine with.  If you look through my posts you will see I can take my fair share of critique....mean, nice and otherwise!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you just got good feedback on these pictures.
> (don't feel bad, i have the same problem)
> 
> if its a matter of pointing out what we think is _*right*_ with the photos as well....
> framing is _*good*_. (#3 and #4 I would have shot portrait)
> color is _*good*_.
> focus is _*good*_.
> WB is _*good*_.
> DOF is _*good*_ except for #6 where i would personally prefer that all of the baby is in focus. (my thoughts on DOF are well established on these types of photos...strictly a personal preference) also, the brown fabric that trails away from the baby is distracting. i would tuck that behind the baby so only the blue is visible in the background.
> focal length choice is _*good*_.
> lighting is good, assuming  just natural light is used. there's a few where the lighting is a bit uneven. i would say fill flash but...i know how "flash" suggestions are amongst baby photographers.
> I don't usually care for vignetting, but I think it works well where you applied it.
> 
> overall, this is a _*great*_ set.  I would be pleased to give these to clients. I would be pleased to have these in my portfolio.
> if the _*only*_ nitpic I got on MY photos were some posing concerns, I would be like "yup, ill keep an eye on that next time" and then go dance in the street.
Click to expand...


But the point is this is a GREAT set. And no one said that, only negative comments were given. I would say Corrie is probably the best pro newborn photog on this forum.

Corrie. Stop asking for critique. Post your images, own your images


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## BrickHouse

paigew said:


> Lying flat on your back it would be hard to cut off airways.



False.


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## paigew

BrickHouse said:


> paigew said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lying flat on your back it would be hard to cut off airways.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> False.
Click to expand...


Pediatricians recommend back sleeping for infants to reduce sids. Anyway this thread is really horrible. It proves just how hard it is for a woman photographer to get respect. These are good, damn good photos. Better photos than most people who commented produce IMO. Leave this girl alone. You all are being mean, bullies. Truth.


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## BrickHouse

Correct. Back sleeping with a neutral spine and airway. Not dumped into a bucket with the chin touching the chest.


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## pjaye

paigew said:


> . Anyway this thread is really horrible. It proves just how hard it is for a woman photographer to get respect. These are good, damn good photos. Better photos than most people who commented produce IMO. Leave this girl alone. You all are being mean, bullies. Truth.



I'm sorry but this is NOT true in any way shape or form. And what a way to SLAM everyone who did respond to this thread. Before you call someone a bully, please re-read the words you wrote. Not cool. 

Example of a *woman photographer who got great advice and responded gracefully. http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...ects-newborns-advice-reviews-appreciated.html*

*If you can't handle C&C, then don't ask for it.*


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## The_Traveler

"Open airway by tilting patient&#8217;s head back and lifting the chin. Do not perform a head tilt on babies or injured patients."

Newborn babies are different than adults.
They have little muscle strength in their necks and can't resist the pull of gravity on their large heads.
Their trachea are not as rigid and can relatively easily be compressed by position.


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## paigew

BrickHouse said:


> Correct. Back sleeping with a neutral spine and airway. Not dumped into a bucket with the chin touching the chest.


Well the baby is not "dumped in a bucket". The baby prop was filled to the top with stuffing (blanket) so the baby is lying natural/flat position. It is not right for you to assume a professional newborn photographer would not be taking proper safety precautions. I can see mentioning it, but seriously, this is getting really out of control...mods??


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## paigew

symplybarb said:


> paigew said:
> 
> 
> 
> . Anyway this thread is really horrible. It proves just how hard it is for a woman photographer to get respect. These are good, damn good photos. Better photos than most people who commented produce IMO. Leave this girl alone. You all are being mean, bullies. Truth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry but this is NOT true in any way shape or form. And what a way to SLAM everyone who did respond to this thread. Before you call someone a bully, please re-read the words you wrote. Not cool.
> 
> If you can't hand C&C, then don't ask for it.
Click to expand...

First off, I can handle critique...as can Corrie, obviously. Also, yes, there are many people who responded on this thread as bullies. Who continuously assumed that this baby was put in life threatening danger, even after being assured he wasn't several times.

She was even told by people to "look at pinterest" for ideas. Well I'm sorry to tell you but her images are probably the ones you are pinning! Hey, haters gonna hate....


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## pjaye

paigew said:


> First off, I can handle critique...as can Corrie, obviously. Also, yes, there are many people who responded on this thread as bullies. Who continuously assumed that this baby was put in life threatening danger, even after being assured he wasn't several times.
> 
> She was even told by people to "look at pinterest" for ideas. Well I'm sorry to tell you but her images are probably the ones you are pinning! Hey, haters gonna hate....


.

Definition of bullying : *Bullying* is the use of force, threat, or coercion to abuse, intimidate, or aggressively impose domination over others. The behavior is often repeated and habitual. One essential prerequisite is the perception, by the bully or by others, of an imbalance of social or physical power. Behaviors used to assert such domination can include verbal harassment or threat, physical assault or coercion, and such acts may be directed repeatedly towards particular targets. Justifications and rationalizations for such behavior sometimes include differences of class, race, religion, gender, sexuality, appearance, behavior, body language, personality, reputation, lineage, strength, size or ability

Not happening here. 

If you can't handle the truth, then don't ask for it.


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## BrickHouse

paigew said:


> BrickHouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> Correct. Back sleeping with a neutral spine and airway. Not dumped into a bucket with the chin touching the chest.
> 
> 
> 
> Well the baby is not "dumped in a bucket". The baby prop was filled to the top with stuffing (blanket) so the baby is lying natural/flat position. It is not right for you to assume a professional newborn photographer would not be taking proper safety precautions. I can see mentioning it, but seriously, this is getting really out of control...mods??
Click to expand...


She is a professional newborn photographer who takes beautiful pictures. I am a professional physician that has spent 15 years learning about the intricacies of the human body, including neonatal airways. I am merely trying to provide a little helpful advice that may keep her taking beautiful pictures.


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## paigew

Hi Corrie! I wanted to give you some critique. I think you did a really awesome job here! The skin tones are so lovely and your backdrop is so smooth! I can never get mine like that!! (I have that blue blanket btw)

#1 This is my least favorite. I am personally not really a big prop person. The baby is very small in the frame, maybe try to crop off so the moon almost touches frame left, putting baby more in ROT. Also something funky is going on with the background...darkening??
#2 & 3...well it has obviously been mentioned his neck looks uncomfortable. I think these are really cute, but I would really like to see some more interesting compositions, baby is very centered.
#4 is a great job at a composite! Skin tones look a little more red and highlights look a tad brighter than the others. Did you process it differently? Looks more contrasty?
#5 Love it, next time try to pull that hand up and under his cheek more
#6 again, love, I would try to bring hands under cheek.


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## paigew

symplybarb said:


> paigew said:
> 
> 
> 
> . Anyway this thread is really horrible. It proves just how hard it is for a woman photographer to get respect. These are good, damn good photos. Better photos than most people who commented produce IMO. Leave this girl alone. You all are being mean, bullies. Truth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Example of a *woman photographer who got great advice and responded gracefully. http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...ects-newborns-advice-reviews-appreciated.html*
> 
> *.*
Click to expand...


Yes I hope everyone reads that thread you linked to. Why on earth would those photos (while cute, far less in quality) get such great reviews and these professional quality photos get such bad ones...hmmm....I don't have to think hard about that one....


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## BrickHouse

paigew said:


> symplybarb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paigew said:
> 
> 
> 
> . Anyway this thread is really horrible. It proves just how hard it is for a woman photographer to get respect. These are good, damn good photos. Better photos than most people who commented produce IMO. Leave this girl alone. You all are being mean, bullies. Truth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Example of a *woman photographer who got great advice and responded gracefully. http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...ects-newborns-advice-reviews-appreciated.html*
> 
> *.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes I hope everyone reads that thread you linked to. Why on earth would those photos (while cute, far less in quality) get such great reviews and these professional quality photos get such bad ones...hmmm....I don't have to think hard about that one....
Click to expand...


I don't think anyone is giving bad reviews to these. Pretty much everyone has thought they were wonderful photos. The difference is that the infant is positioned with neutral head position in the other thread. That's all anybody has said in critique of this thread, just positioning.


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## The_Traveler

paigew said:


> BrickHouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> Correct. Back sleeping with a neutral spine and airway. Not dumped into a bucket with the chin touching the chest.
> 
> 
> 
> Well the baby is not "dumped in a bucket". The baby prop was filled to the top with stuffing (blanket) *so the baby is lying natural/flat position.* It is not right for you to assume a professional newborn photographer would not be taking proper safety precautions. I can see mentioning it, but seriously, this is getting really out of control...mods??
Click to expand...


You must be looking at different pictures than I see.
The baby's head in these look seriously unnatural and non-flat to me.


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## Steve5D

NedM said:


> Man that baby looks uncomfortable.



No it doesn't. In reality, it looks remarkably comfortable. So comfortable that _it's sleeping_...


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## The_Traveler

Steve5D said:


> NedM said:
> 
> 
> 
> Man that baby looks uncomfortable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No it doesn't. In reality, it looks remarkably comfortable. So comfortable that _it's sleeping_...
Click to expand...


You may not have much experience with newborns; I raised several.
Newborns sleep, even in positions that are uncomfortable and even dangerous - look up SIDS.


----------



## Robin Usagani

I wonder how much crap you get if you post underwater baby photos .  Certainly babies cant breath underwater.

https://www.google.com/search?q=und...20kQeBr4HADA&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1035&bih=348


----------



## pjaye

Steve5D said:


> NedM said:
> 
> 
> 
> Man that baby looks uncomfortable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No it doesn't. In reality, it looks remarkably comfortable. So comfortable that _it's sleeping_...
Click to expand...


This baby is 5 days old. That's all it does is sleep.


----------



## Steve5D

The_Traveler said:


> Steve5D said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NedM said:
> 
> 
> 
> Man that baby looks uncomfortable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No it doesn't. In reality, it looks remarkably comfortable. So comfortable that _it's sleeping_...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You may not have much experience with newborns; I raised several.
> Newborns sleep, even in positions that are uncomfortable and even dangerous - look up SIDS.
Click to expand...


Good idea. I found this:



> Most deaths due to SIDS occur between 2 and 4 months of age, and  incidence increases during cold weather. African-American infants are  twice as likely and Native American infants are about three times more  likely to die of SIDS than caucasian infants. More boys than girls fall  victim to SIDS. Other potential risk factors include:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> smoking, drinking, or drug use during pregnancy
> poor prenatal care
> prematurity or low birth weight
> mothers younger than 20
> tobacco smoke exposure following birth
> overheating from excessive sleepwear and bedding
> stomach sleeping



Source 

Only two of the items have anything to do with sleeping, and only one of those two items has anything to do with the position a baby is sleeping in, and that one says nothing about the position of the baby's head. Despite that you may well have convinced yourself to the contrary, raising several children doesn't make you an expert.

And, either way, I'm willing to bet that no baby photographed in those positions will die during the portrait session.

I think even a mild application of common sense is in order here...


----------



## BrickHouse

It's not always death that's the problem, Steve. I have taken care of a few children with CP from hypoxic injury obtained while driving home in an improperly fit carseat that allowed their head to fall out of neutral. As little as 5-7 minutes with reduced oxygen can cause developmental trouble. But I'm just a doctor, what would I know. You guys have google!


----------



## BrickHouse

Robin Usagani said:


> I wonder how much crap you get if you post underwater baby photos .  Certainly babies cant breath underwater.
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?q=und...20kQeBr4HADA&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1035&bih=348



Interesting photos! These kids are all closer to the 6-9 month range and they're utilizing a reflex called the dive reflex.


----------



## pixmedic

Please show me where anyone said these were bad pictures?


----------



## jaomul

I don't think the posing looks natural. If my child was sleeping like that I would move them to a different position. I am not qualified to say if it is safe or not.

Technically the pictures are good.

There was a comment about woman finding it hard to get respect in the photo industry. Fwiw I didn't know it was a woman until it was said then. I think I know more good woman photographers than men.


----------



## The_Traveler

Steve5D said:


> The_Traveler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steve5D said:
> 
> 
> 
> No it doesn't. In reality, it looks remarkably comfortable. So comfortable that _it's sleeping_...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You may not have much experience with newborns; I raised several.
> Newborns sleep, even in positions that are uncomfortable and even dangerous - look up SIDS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good idea. I found this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most deaths due to SIDS occur between 2 and 4 months of age, and  incidence increases during cold weather. African-American infants are  twice as likely and Native American infants are about three times more  likely to die of SIDS than caucasian infants. More boys than girls fall  victim to SIDS. Other potential risk factors include:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> smoking, drinking, or drug use during pregnancy
> poor prenatal care
> prematurity or low birth weight
> mothers younger than 20
> tobacco smoke exposure following birth
> overheating from excessive sleepwear and bedding
> stomach sleeping
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Source
> 
> Only two of the items have anything to do with sleeping, and only one of those two items has anything to do with the position a baby is sleeping in, and that one says nothing about the position of the baby's head. Despite that you may well have convinced yourself to the contrary, raising several children doesn't make you an expert.
> 
> And, either way, I'm willing to bet that no baby photographed in those positions will die during the portrait session.
> 
> I think even a mild application of common sense is in order here...
Click to expand...


I've raised 5 children, and did the requisite amount of studying and care.
Yet you have decided that, although you clearly don't know crap, that your opinion in this area means something.


----------



## JacaRanda

The pictures look very nice.  The angle of the head/neck in the basket shots do appear to be constricting or at the very least uncomfortable.  Maybe if you placed the baby a little further down in the baskets so that the cute little feet would dangle slighty over the edge would have done the trick.


----------



## Robin Usagani

Nowadays it is even not recommended to have ANYTHING in the crib.  Can't have blanket (unless you swaddle the baby with it), cant have stuffed animal, cant have pillow.  I didn't follow the rules though.


----------



## BrickHouse

A towel roll underneath the shoulders in the basket shots would likely bring the airway to neutral enough. Also, the feet dangling idea. The only time in their life that feet are cute.


----------



## paigew

Robin Usagani said:


> Nowadays it is even not recommended to have ANYTHING in the crib.  Can't have blanket (unless you swaddle the baby with it), cant have stuffed animal, cant have pillow.  I didn't follow the rules though.


These people would flip if they saw how I slept with my babies. In my bed, in between two adults and...PILLOWS...oh the horror.


----------



## AmberAtLoveAndInk

paigew said:


> symplybarb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paigew said:
> 
> 
> 
> . Anyway this thread is really horrible. It proves just how hard it is for a woman photographer to get respect. These are good, damn good photos. Better photos than most people who commented produce IMO. Leave this girl alone. You all are being mean, bullies. Truth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Example of a *woman photographer who got great advice and responded gracefully. http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...ects-newborns-advice-reviews-appreciated.html*
> 
> *.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes I hope everyone reads that thread you linked to. Why on earth would those photos (while cute, far less in quality) get such great reviews and these professional quality photos get such bad ones...hmmm....I don't have to think hard about that one....
Click to expand...


Well that was rude..


----------



## BrickHouse

paigew said:


> Robin Usagani said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nowadays it is even not recommended to have ANYTHING in the crib.  Can't have blanket (unless you swaddle the baby with it), cant have stuffed animal, cant have pillow.  I didn't follow the rules though.
> 
> 
> 
> These people would flip if they saw how I slept with my babies. In my bed, in between two adults and...PILLOWS...oh the horror.
Click to expand...


You can take whatever chances you want with your own children. I have personally placed my lips on a blue child to try to breath life back into them after a father rolled over on them in the middle of the night. Life's a gamble, some people lose.


----------



## paigew

AmberAtLoveAndInk said:


> paigew said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> symplybarb said:
> 
> 
> 
> Example of a *woman photographer who got great advice and responded gracefully. http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...ects-newborns-advice-reviews-appreciated.html*
> 
> *.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I hope everyone reads that thread you linked to. Why on earth would those photos (while cute, far less in quality) get such great reviews and these professional quality photos get such bad ones...hmmm....I don't have to think hard about that one....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well that was rude..
Click to expand...

Well I'm sorry you took it as rude. Do you think YOU think you have equal skill/knowledge/talent? That your photos are of equal quality? Sometimes the truth hurts. But I do think you are off to a really good start. Honest, I really do, don't hate me ::hugs::


----------



## robbins.photo

paigew said:


> AmberAtLoveAndInk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paigew said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I hope everyone reads that thread you linked to. Why on earth would those photos (while cute, far less in quality) get such great reviews and these professional quality photos get such bad ones...hmmm....I don't have to think hard about that one....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that was rude..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I'm sorry you took it as rude. Do you think YOU think you have equal skill/knowledge/talent? That your photos are of equal quality? Sometimes the truth hurts. But I do think you are off to a really good start. Honest, I really do, don't hate me ::hugs::
Click to expand...


Would it be ok if I hate you then?  Nothing personal, I've just got a lot of misplaced rage.

Oh.. wait.. here it is.  Fell down behind the couch.  Ok, were good.  Nevermind.. lol


----------



## paigew

BrickHouse said:


> paigew said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Robin Usagani said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nowadays it is even not recommended to have ANYTHING in the crib.  Can't have blanket (unless you swaddle the baby with it), cant have stuffed animal, cant have pillow.  I didn't follow the rules though.
> 
> 
> 
> These people would flip if they saw how I slept with my babies. In my bed, in between two adults and...PILLOWS...oh the horror.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can take whatever chances you want with your own children. I have personally placed my lips on a blue child to try to breath life back into them after a father rolled over on them in the middle of the night. Life's a gamble, some people lose.
Click to expand...

Well that is western medicine for you. Parent related sleep deaths usually happen from families who do not regularly co-sleep, and instead (fall asleep randomly in bed with baby...because they are so tired from walking back and forth to crib perhaps?). In countries where cosleeping is the norm SIDS is virtually unheard of. That is because mother's breath and heartbeat/temperature regulate babies. It is all a part of the magic of breastfeeding + natural parenting.


----------



## paigew

robbins.photo said:


> paigew said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AmberAtLoveAndInk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well that was rude..
> 
> 
> 
> Well I'm sorry you took it as rude. Do you think YOU think you have equal skill/knowledge/talent? That your photos are of equal quality? Sometimes the truth hurts. But I do think you are off to a really good start. Honest, I really do, don't hate me ::hugs::
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Would it be ok if I hate you then?  Nothing personal, I've just got a lot of misplaced rage.
> 
> Oh.. wait.. here it is.  Fell down behind the couch.  Ok, were good.  Nevermind.. lol
Click to expand...

Sure, I'm a mom + wife. I'm used to taking peoples misplaced rage LOL


----------



## AmberAtLoveAndInk

paigew said:


> AmberAtLoveAndInk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paigew said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I hope everyone reads that thread you linked to. Why on earth would those photos (while cute, far less in quality) get such great reviews and these professional quality photos get such bad ones...hmmm....I don't have to think hard about that one....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that was rude..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I'm sorry you took it as rude. Do you think YOU think you have equal talent? That your photos are of equal quality? Sometimes the truth hurts. But I do think you are off to a really good start. Honest, I really do, don't hate me ::hugs::
Click to expand...


I didn't put my comment up to say I was in equal competition with this other photographer, you stated how you didn't like bullies and that comment seemed a bit mean spirited to me since I haven't even held an SLR for a year yet. I'm a huge newb and that's ok. I would have appreciated it if you gave me some pointers in image quality instead though  This photographer has beautiful work that's for sure, but my thread wasn't put up here to challenge her overall work. Someone posted it because they liked the way I naturally positioned the baby. Kuddos for standing your ground with this photographer though, there truthfully are some not so nice reviews that get taken too far and I have had my fair share given to me.


----------



## pixmedic

I still want to know where anyone in this thread said that corries photos were not good...

Also, why feel the need to post someone's else's pictures here and imply that they are not as good as the OP's.... based on your opinion? that isn't rude?


----------



## Robin Usagani

paigew said:


> Robin Usagani said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nowadays it is even not recommended to have ANYTHING in the crib.  Can't have blanket (unless you swaddle the baby with it), cant have stuffed animal, cant have pillow.  I didn't follow the rules though.
> 
> 
> 
> These people would flip if they saw how I slept with my babies. In my bed, in between two adults and...PILLOWS...oh the horror.
Click to expand...



You two don't do it much anymore eh .  My triplets always sleep in their own beds.  I don't want them to sleep with us.  I don't want them to get used to sleep with us.  We need OUR time lol.


----------



## AmberAtLoveAndInk

robbins.photo said:


> paigew said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AmberAtLoveAndInk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well that was rude..
> 
> 
> 
> Well I'm sorry you took it as rude. Do you think YOU think you have equal skill/knowledge/talent? That your photos are of equal quality? Sometimes the truth hurts. But I do think you are off to a really good start. Honest, I really do, don't hate me ::hugs::
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Would it be ok if I hate you then?  Nothing personal, I've just got a lot of misplaced rage.
> 
> Oh.. wait.. here it is.  Fell down behind the couch.  Ok, were good.  Nevermind.. lol
Click to expand...


Glad you found it lmao you are such an ass.


----------



## manaheim

I thought the photos were awesome, minus my petty grumbling about props and ribbons in hair and stuff. 

I know you didn't ask that, but I'd just like to go on record.


----------



## robbins.photo

paigew said:


> robbins.photo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paigew said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well I'm sorry you took it as rude. Do you think YOU think you have equal skill/knowledge/talent? That your photos are of equal quality? Sometimes the truth hurts. But I do think you are off to a really good start. Honest, I really do, don't hate me ::hugs::
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Would it be ok if I hate you then? Nothing personal, I've just got a lot of misplaced rage.
> 
> Oh.. wait.. here it is. Fell down behind the couch. Ok, were good. Nevermind.. lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, I'm a mom + wife. I'm used to taking peoples misplaced rage LOL
Click to expand...


Well I don't mind if you take it with you, I'm sure it would probably enjoy a nice walk.  Pretty cold out still though, let me see if I can find a little sweater that will fit it.. lol


----------



## paigew

AmberAtLoveAndInk said:


> paigew said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AmberAtLoveAndInk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well that was rude..
> 
> 
> 
> Well I'm sorry you took it as rude. Do you think YOU think you have equal talent? That your photos are of equal quality? Sometimes the truth hurts. But I do think you are off to a really good start. Honest, I really do, don't hate me ::hugs::
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I didn't put my comment up to say I was in equal competition with this other photographer, you stated how you didn't like bullies and that comment seemed a bit mean spirited to me since I haven't even held an SLR for a year yet. I'm a huge newb and that's ok. I would have appreciated it if you gave me some pointers in image quality instead though  This photographer has beautiful work that's for sure, but my thread wasn't put up here to challenge her overall work. Someone posted it because they liked the way I naturally positioned the baby. Kuddos for standing your ground with this photographer though, there truthfully are some not so nice reviews that get taken too far and I have had my fair share given to me.
Click to expand...

Amber, I would have done the same for you. You got really great critique. You got really good "atta girls" + some helpful criticism which we ALL need. We all need to know that our work is "good" that people like it! So imagine the hurt when every.single.comment. is negative!! Every time you post!! I really hope you don't take it personal. Take it at face value. You ARE doing great . I did not search out you/your thread. It was linked here by someone else; not because of your posing. But because you supposedly handled criticism with grace. When the op did not...supposedly


----------



## paigew

pixmedic said:


> I still want to know where anyone in this thread said that corries photos were not good...
> 
> Also, why feel the need to post someone's else's pictures here and imply that they are not as good as the OP's.... based on your opinion? that isn't rude?



The point is that *NO ONE SAID THEY WERE???!!!! 
*
And I did NOT link them. That was someone else. Read rmy response. I did however, make a comment about the link, after it was thrown at me .


----------



## pixmedic

paigew said:


> The point is that NO ONE SAID THEY WERE???!!!!
> 
> And I did NOT link them. That was someone else. Read rmy response. I did however, make a comment about the link, after it was thrown at me .



Are you serious? 
Did you not read this thread from the beginning?  Did you not read my posts? Where I went over EVERY good thing on this set?
Or any number of other posts that said these were great photos? EVERY ONE who commented said they were good photos.


----------



## pjaye

pixmedic said:


> I still want to know where anyone in this thread said that corries photos were not good...
> 
> Also, why feel the need to post someone's else's pictures here and imply that they are not as good as the OP's.... based on your opinion? that isn't rude?



For the record, I posted Amber's pictures. However, I posted them as an example because it was said that women photographers don't get respect. I was NOT posting them to say they are not as good as the OP's (in fact, I happen to think they are just as good).


----------



## paigew

symplybarb said:


> The poses in this all look really awkward and uncomfortable. The baby looks too big for the props and so the neck is bent at a weird angle - especially in numer 3.. The body is twisted in the first one.





BrickHouse said:


> You are a professional, I am not.  However, I am a physician, and I would think very very hard about how you pose infants in the future.  The positioning of the head and neck on most of these is dangerous at best.  Beautiful images but I would be very deliberate in the future to try to maintain the airway and spinal column in as neutral a position as possible. My 2 cents.





manaheim said:


> Why all landscape?  Some of those seem like they want to be portrait.
> 
> The quality of your images and lighting seem very nice.
> 
> I'm not a pro baby photog either, but I agree with some of the previous comments. I also reeeeeeeeeeeeally don't like the whole cutesy baby image thing that people do these days... all the props and stuff. So, I'm biased.





NedM said:


> Man that baby looks uncomfortable. Try going for a more delicate look and study on more baby poses. Try pinterest!



first responses.


----------



## pjaye

paigew said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> 
> I still want to know where anyone in this thread said that corries photos were not good...
> 
> Also, why feel the need to post someone's else's pictures here and imply that they are not as good as the OP's.... based on your opinion? that isn't rude?
> 
> 
> 
> And I did NOT link them. That was someone else. Read rmy response. I did however, make a comment about the link, after it was thrown at me .
Click to expand...


They were *not** thrown at you *Paige. They were posted as a direct rebuttal to *your comment that women photographers don't get any respect.* But then, you have chosen to ignore each and every comment that was directed at you that did not fit your agenda. I posted them, and I happen to think they are just as good as the OP's. You were the one that slammed them.


----------



## pixmedic

Women photographers dont get respect here.... of course...because Sharon, or Limr, or Kay-thor, or PixelRabbit, or LaPhoto  don't get ANY respect around here....


----------



## paigew

pixmedic said:


> Women photographers dont get respect here.... of course...because Sharon, or Limr, or Kay-thor, or PixelRabbit, or LaPhoto  don't get ANY respect around here....



I did not say that. I said its hard to get respect. Which I am sure they would all agree with. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## pixmedic

I disagree. I think if you ask any of those people, they will disagree as well.


----------



## Tiller

paigew said:


> I did not say that. I said its hard to get respect. Which I am sure they would all agree with.  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I would disagree wholeheartedly.


----------



## Tiller

I also want to point out that people are ARGUING WITH A TRAINED PHYSICIAN?!?!

I mean come on...


----------



## SCraig

Where are all the moderators that love to preemptively slam topics shut before they get out of hand?


----------



## pixmedic

So..not to derail the thread or anything....
But...anyone else have anything related to the photos to add?


----------



## pixmedic

SCraig said:


> Where are all the moderators that love to preemptively slam topics shut before they get out of hand?



Was that sarcasm or do you really want me to lock the thread? I can't tell.  If you think it's time, I guess I can get that done for you.

I'm really against locking threads though, unless per OP request.



Did that come off as humorous?  It was meant to be humorous.  



I was serious about not liking to lock threads though.


----------



## paigew

pixmedic said:


> I disagree. I think if you ask any of those people, they will disagree as well.



Well, we should ask them. I am sorry if I offended anyone. I have done it...been in her shoes. I have worked my ass off to be where I am now. I first picked up a camera November of 2011 and it took me a long time to gain respect from this forum. This forum is/can be toxic. There have been many times in my photographic "journey" where I have been completely discouraged by members here, and far less times when I have been encouraged. There is no reason why we cannot support one another instead of driving people away with negativity. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## pixmedic

paigew said:


> Well. We should ask them. I am sorry if I offended anyone. I have done it. I have worked my ass off to be where I am now. I first picked up a camera November of 2011 and it took me a long time to gain respect from this forum. This forum is/can be toxic. There is no reason why we cannot support one another instead of driving people away with negativity.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Why is it negative to  comment on an aspect of a photo that you feel is wrong? 
Do you think only positive reinforcement should be given? You keep mentioning everything negative that was said about the OP, but never once acknowledged the positive, nor addressed the OPs poor reaction to the negative critique.


----------



## robbins.photo

Ok, probably just me here.  I mean it's usually just me when it comes to stuff like this, but i can't help thinking that we spent all this time having gun pictures banned because of the snark that those threads would generate, and as it turns out all of that seems pretty tame by comparision when it comes to baby pictures.

I have to admit, didn't see that one coming.


----------



## paigew

Exactly Robbins. Point made. And exactly why I rarely post client work here. &#128542;


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## pixmedic

robbins.photo said:


> I have to admit, didn't see that one coming.



That's what....




Awe......nevermind


----------



## manicmike

This has to be one of the most ridiculous threads I've read on here in a while.


----------



## SCraig

pixmedic said:


> Was that sarcasm or do you really want me to lock the thread? I can't tell.  If you think it's time, I guess I can get that done for you.
> 
> I'm really against locking threads though, unless per OP request.
> 
> 
> 
> Did that come off as humorous?  It was meant to be humorous.
> 
> 
> 
> I was serious about not liking to lock threads though.



Serious or sarcastic?  Perhaps a bit of both.


----------



## manaheim

SCraig said:


> Where are all the moderators that love to preemptively slam topics shut before they get out of hand?



It's harder to justify locking the thread when you're in the middle of the fracas.

"Oh hey now.. THAT comment was over the line... all my comments earlier were totally ok... but YOURS... OH MAN! FLAG ON PLAY! SO BANNED!"


----------



## PropilotBW

paigew said:


> Robin Usagani said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nowadays it is even not recommended to have ANYTHING in the crib.  Can't have blanket (unless you swaddle the baby with it), cant have stuffed animal, cant have pillow.  I didn't follow the rules though.
> 
> 
> 
> These people would flip if they saw how I slept with my babies. In my bed, in between two adults and...PILLOWS...oh the horror.
Click to expand...


thats just called irresponsible and uneducated.


----------



## ronlane

So we can add new born baby photo conversations to the list of things NOT to discuss.  Politics, religion, guns and new born baby photos.

Yep, I'll stay away from those even more than wedding photography.


----------



## paigew

PropilotBW said:


> paigew said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Robin Usagani said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nowadays it is even not recommended to have ANYTHING in the crib.  Can't have blanket (unless you swaddle the baby with it), cant have stuffed animal, cant have pillow.  I didn't follow the rules though.
> 
> 
> 
> These people would flip if they saw how I slept with my babies. In my bed, in between two adults and...PILLOWS...oh the horror.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> thats just called irresponsible and uneducated.
Click to expand...


Okay are we now critiquing parenting choices now? Hmmmm....people have been cosleeping since the beginning of time. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## runnah

As a former baby I feel like I can offer some insight.

Babies are very flexible, they spend 9 months inside a woman's stomach then get squeezed out a very small hole which is yet unknown to science. The point is a a quick session in which the child is under supervision by parents and a trained baby poser should not set off any alarm bells.


----------



## PropilotBW

I think these are really good.  If this were my kids, I would be happy with the results. I would have liked some closer detail shots, too.  Maybe those are on your card and not posted.  I like the pose in #4.  Although unnatural, it's just really a good shot of the face!
I also like more baby and less background.   Keep up the good work!


----------



## vintagesnaps

I think Jason seemed sincere, he doesn't seem to usually lock threads unless absolutely necessary. I'm glad that he and Dr. Brick spoke up and provided some medical information. My background isn't medical but is in education and child development with birth to three; I've taken infant CPR but thankfully have never had to use it. 

The portraits are lovely but the positioning is a concern. As far as the photos from comments here some of the poses used didn't seem appealing to viewers. After 20+ years in early intervention I know if a position looks appropriate for the baby's age or not, and as I've started looking at newborn photography the use of the same type positions seems widespread. It certainly is beyond this thread or even this website that there seems to be a lack of awareness by photographers that the positioning being used could be dangerous. 

I didn't realize til I started doing some research that a baby could start to slowly suffocate in 1-2 minutes of being in a position that compromises the airway. If nothing else if you try some of the positions you can feel how uncomfortable it can get, so how must it feel to a newborn with a tiny airway? I feel like if you're handling someone else's baby that puts you in a situation of being responsible for anything that happens; I hope someday there isn't a situation where a baby whose neck muscles might be weaker than typical for example and was positioned improperly by a photographer goes into respiratory distress or any life threatening situation.


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## BrickHouse

runnah said:


> The point is a a quick session in which the child is under supervision by parents and a trained baby poser should not set off any alarm bells.



That's the thing, without an oxygen sensor, there is no alarm bells, just a gradual fall off the developmental curve and a life-changing diagnosis.


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## paigew

I'm curious...where are all these "baby died in *professional* photoshoot" stories?? You KNOW the news would be all up on that...but alas...no stories....


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## pixmedic

paigew said:


> I'm curious...where are all these "baby died in professional photoshoot" stories?? You KNOW the news would be all up on that...but alas...no stories....



They are in the same place that qualifies Pinterest photos to dictate medical safety.


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## vintagesnaps

But some of the problem Runnah is '*trained*' baby 'posers' - the so-called training if it's found on places like YouTube could be posted by _anyone_, not necessarily someone with any expertise in proper positioning for newborns. There are even video tutorials and websites etc. that are demonstrating some inappropriate positions being used for baby photos. 

There seems to be a need for more awareness and education of how to properly position a baby for photos that not only keeps the baby safe but keeps him or her in a position that doesn't compromise the airway.


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## sm4him

paigew said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Women photographers dont get respect here.... of course...because Sharon, or Limr, or Kay-thor, or PixelRabbit, or LaPhoto don't get ANY respect around here....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did not say that. I said its hard to get respect. Which I am sure they would all agree with.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...



Well, I missed this thread! 

I wasn't going to respond but since my name is specifically mentioned, I feel like I do need to say this:

No, I have not found it hard to get respect, here on TPF, nor as a photographer in general. And I *personally* think it has nothing to do with whether I am female or male, but with one single thing:

I think I've been treated pretty respectfully because I always try to GIVE respect.  As far as TPF goes, if I have a REAL issue with someone or with a particular post, I'll either take it to a mod or at least to a PM.  But I try to treat everyone with as much respect as I can muster, EVEN when they aren't necessarily acting "respectably."
Unless I haven't had enough caffeine. Then all bets are off.


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## robbins.photo

paigew said:


> I'm curious...where are all these "baby died in *professional* photoshoot" stories?? You KNOW the news would be all up on that...but alas...no stories....



Usually right next to the story about the 2 headed baby that found bigfoot and was then abducted by a UFO.  Enquiring minds want to know, you know.. lol

Besides, I got my airway obstructed plenty of times when I was a toddler and it never .... umm.. sorry, what were we talking about again?


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## runnah

vintagesnaps said:


> But some of the problem Runnah is 'trained' baby 'posers' - the so-called training if it's found on places like YouTube could be posted by anyone, not necessarily someone with any expertise in proper positioning for newborns. There are even video tutorials and websites etc. that are demonstrating some inappropriate positions being used for baby photos.  There seems to be a need for more awareness and education of how to properly position a baby for photos that not only keeps the baby safe but keeps him or her in a position that doesn't compromise the airway.



So what you are saying is my "newborns with guns and fireworks" themed shoot is a bad idea?


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## robbins.photo

pixmedic said:


> paigew said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious...where are all these "baby died in professional photoshoot" stories?? You KNOW the news would be all up on that...but alas...no stories....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are in the same place that qualifies Pinterest photos to dictate medical safety.
Click to expand...


Yikes.. would that be in the "Hey guys watch this" section by chance?


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## robbins.photo

runnah said:


> vintagesnaps said:
> 
> 
> 
> But some of the problem Runnah is 'trained' baby 'posers' - the so-called training if it's found on places like YouTube could be posted by anyone, not necessarily someone with any expertise in proper positioning for newborns. There are even video tutorials and websites etc. that are demonstrating some inappropriate positions being used for baby photos. There seems to be a need for more awareness and education of how to properly position a baby for photos that not only keeps the baby safe but keeps him or her in a position that doesn't compromise the airway.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what you are saying is my "newborns with guns and fireworks" themed shoot is a bad idea?
Click to expand...


Thanks Runnah.  Totally blew my idea for the opposites challenge right out of the water there.  Sheesh.


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## BrickHouse

paigew said:


> I'm curious...where are all these "baby died in *professional* photoshoot" stories?? You KNOW the news would be all up on that...but alas...no stories....



Again, death is not the concern. You're talking about an insult to the brain that can happen in minutes and won't show up for maybe years. Ask Dr Google about Cerebral Palsy. Plenty of news stories about that. Even the trauma of birth can cause it and that's something the body is DESIGNED to do.


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## Steve5D

The_Traveler said:


> Steve5D said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The_Traveler said:
> 
> 
> 
> You may not have much experience with newborns; I raised several.
> Newborns sleep, even in positions that are uncomfortable and even dangerous - look up SIDS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good idea. I found this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most deaths due to SIDS occur between 2 and 4 months of age, and  incidence increases during cold weather. African-American infants are  twice as likely and Native American infants are about three times more  likely to die of SIDS than caucasian infants. More boys than girls fall  victim to SIDS. Other potential risk factors include:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> smoking, drinking, or drug use during pregnancy
> poor prenatal care
> prematurity or low birth weight
> mothers younger than 20
> tobacco smoke exposure following birth
> overheating from excessive sleepwear and bedding
> stomach sleeping
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Source
> 
> Only two of the items have anything to do with sleeping, and only one of those two items has anything to do with the position a baby is sleeping in, and that one says nothing about the position of the baby's head. Despite that you may well have convinced yourself to the contrary, raising several children doesn't make you an expert.
> 
> And, either way, I'm willing to bet that no baby photographed in those positions will die during the portrait session.
> 
> I think even a mild application of common sense is in order here...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've raised 5 children, and did the requisite amount of studying and care.
> Yet you have decided that, although you clearly don't know crap, that your opinion in this area means something.
Click to expand...


Careful when you get down from that high horse, Lew You know, assuming you ever do. You're not the only one who's raised children, and you're not the only one who's studied raising and caring for children. But, hey, you just go ahead and keep on believing that you're somehow more qualified to discuss it.

But, you know, perhaps I was unclear. Let me re-state my point:

You're promoting the idea that a baby in such a photo shoot could die of SIDS as a result of that photo shoot.

That's stupid.

Hopefully my point is a but more clear, and will preclude the necessity for you to pretend that you know more about everything than anyone else...


----------



## The_Traveler

*Co-Sleeping Research Looks At Breathing Risks For Baby

Babies who share a bed with their mothers are up to five times more likely to suffer Sudden Infant Death Syndrome *
Read more: Co-sleeping: the new parenting fad experts fear could KILL your baby | Mail Online 

Co-sleeping | March of Dimes

Cosleeping and Your Baby

CHOC Children's - Kid's Health (Archive) - Sleeping with a Newborn is Dangerous


​


----------



## vintagesnaps

Runnah there goes the TPF photo challenge idea for April...


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## The_Traveler

Steve5D said:


> Careful when you get down from that high horse, Lew You know, assuming you ever do. You're not the only one who's raised children, and you're not the only one who's studied raising and caring for children. But, hey, you just go ahead and keep on believing that you're somehow more qualified to discuss it.



Nope, what I am saying is that babies will sleep in positions that are dangerous for them.
And they will stay in dangerous positions because they aren't strong enough to get out of them.


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## paigew

The_Traveler said:


> *Co-Sleeping Research Looks At Breathing Risks For Baby
> 
> Babies who share a bed with their mothers are up to five times more likely to suffer Sudden Infant Death Syndrome *
> Read more: Co-sleeping: the new parenting fad experts fear could KILL your baby | Mail Online
> 
> Co-sleeping | March of Dimes
> 
> Cosleeping and Your Baby
> 
> CHOC Children's - Kid's Health (Archive) - Sleeping with a Newborn is Dangerous
> 
> 
> ​


are we doing this?
Co-Sleeping: Yes, No, Sometimes? | Ask Dr Sears® | The Trusted Resource for Parents

New Research on Bedsharing and Infant Breathing | Science of Mom

Cosleeping and Biological Imperatives - The Natural Child Project

http://www.naturalbirthandbabycare.com/co-sleeping-benefits/


----------



## Steve5D

robbins.photo said:


> Ok, probably just me here.  I mean it's usually just me when it comes to stuff like this, but i can't help thinking that we spent all this time having gun pictures banned because of the snark that those threads would generate, and as it turns out all of that seems pretty tame by comparision when it comes to baby pictures.
> 
> I have to admit, didn't see that one coming.



LOLOLOL!!


----------



## Steve5D

runnah said:


> As a former baby I feel like I can offer some insight.
> 
> Babies are very flexible, they spend 9 months inside a woman's stomach then get squeezed out a very small hole which is yet unknown to science. The point is a a quick session in which the child is under supervision by parents and a trained baby poser should not set off any alarm bells.



Sir, your common sense is unwelcome here...


----------



## BrickHouse

paigew said:


> The_Traveler said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Co-Sleeping Research Looks At Breathing Risks For Baby
> 
> Babies who share a bed with their mothers are up to five times more likely to suffer Sudden Infant Death Syndrome *
> Read more: Co-sleeping: the new parenting fad experts fear could KILL your baby | Mail Online
> 
> Co-sleeping | March of Dimes
> 
> Cosleeping and Your Baby
> 
> CHOC Children's - Kid's Health (Archive) - Sleeping with a Newborn is Dangerous
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> are we doing this?
> Co-Sleeping: Yes, No, Sometimes? | Ask Dr Sears® | The Trusted Resource for Parents
> 
> New Research on Bedsharing and Infant Breathing | Science of Mom
> 
> Cosleeping and Biological Imperatives - The Natural Child Project
> 
> Co-Sleeping Benefits - Natural Birth and Baby Care.com
Click to expand...


Oh for the love of all things holy, please don't quote me Dr Sears. His anti-vaccine campaign that was based on a falsified study is the reason that measles, once thought to be completely gone in the United States is wreaking havoc left and right. The guy is a joke among the pediatric community.


----------



## The_Traveler

Making the point that what you have is not absolute but your opinion and the way you treat your own children is one thing.
Putting other people's children in positions that are possibly dangerous is a very bad idea.

And trying to deflect informed criticism of the poses as bigotry is really unprofessional.


----------



## robbins.photo

Ok, so to sum this all up - Lew raised 5 kids and then became a cowboy who apparently refuses to ride any steed smaller than 16½ hands.  Pintrest probably isn't the best source for medical advice, Paige doesn't read the Enquirer, Sm4him's neighbors are all happy campers until the day the Folger's truck jackknifes on I-5 at which point they will be turned into ground chuck, we need to start putting SPOILER ALERT in huge letters at the top of all Runnah's postings.

I think that pretty much covers it.  Did I miss anything?


----------



## vintagesnaps

Just that Runnah was once actually a baby so wasn't apparently hatched or crawled out from under a rock.


----------



## Steve5D

vintagesnaps said:


> I think Jason seemed sincere, he doesn't seem to usually lock threads unless absolutely necessary. I'm glad that he and Dr. Brick spoke up and provided some medical information. My background isn't medical but is in education and child development with birth to three; I've taken infant CPR but thankfully have never had to use it.
> 
> The portraits are lovely but the positioning is a concern. As far as the photos from comments here some of the poses used didn't seem appealing to viewers. After 20+ years in early intervention I know if a position looks appropriate for the baby's age or not, and as I've started looking at newborn photography the use of the same type positions seems widespread. It certainly is beyond this thread or even this website that there seems to be a lack of awareness by photographers that the positioning being used could be dangerous.
> 
> I didn't realize til I started doing some research that a baby could start to slowly suffocate in 1-2 minutes of being in a position that compromises the airway. If nothing else if you try some of the positions you can feel how uncomfortable it can get, so how must it feel to a newborn with a tiny airway? I feel like if you're handling someone else's baby that puts you in a situation of being responsible for anything that happens; I hope someday there isn't a situation where a baby whose neck muscles might be weaker than typical for example and was positioned improperly by a photographer goes into respiratory distress or any life threatening situation.



Not for nothin', but I think it's wholly inappropriate to have medical discussions here, for a variety of reasons...


----------



## robbins.photo

vintagesnaps said:


> Just that Runnah was once actually a baby so wasn't apparently hatched or crawled out from under a rock.



Hmm.. isn't there a burden of proof issue here we need to examine before accepting that at face value? Lol


----------



## tirediron

SCraig said:


> Where are all the moderators that love to preemptively slam topics shut before they get out of hand?


Right here.  Sorry, I was busy.


----------

