# Photographers and Auto Modes



## snerd (Sep 1, 2013)

> ....... since most photographers today use some form of auto exposure the majority of the time.........


That's from a Canon article on using auto exposure lock. So, is that a generally true statement? Sometimes I feel like using Av mode to automate one variable, the S/S, but I feel guilty because so many say to leave it in Manual. How about when I shoot my grandson's football game next week? I know I can handle it on Manual, but wouldn't Av be a little quicker than me setting S/S? Just thinking these thoughts out loud..............


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## Murray Bloom (Sep 1, 2013)

Some sports shooters may offer more informed opinions, but as long as there's plenty of light, I'd give Shutter Priority a shot.  That way you'll be sure to freeze the action (unless you want an intentional blur).  Even those who routinely shoot in manual will often set one parameter while adjusting exposure with the other.

Why would you feel guilty as long as you get good pictures?  Using an auto mode doesn't make you any less of a photographer.  Not understanding how the variables interact might, though.


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## KmH (Sep 1, 2013)

The vast majority of DSLR owners are amateur photographers.

Mos use Auto or one of the semi-auto modes like Av and Tv.

Each shooting mode has it's +'s and -'s.


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## snerd (Sep 1, 2013)

I think I misread the statement. I thought it referred to professional photographers. I didn't believe it.  LOL!!


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## curtyoungblood (Sep 1, 2013)

I think many more professional photographers use automatic modes (at least some times), than people want to admit. I also think that sports are one of the times that it makes a lot of sense to use them. As a general guideline, you're not shooting in really difficult (to meter) lighting situations, and cameras are pretty smart these days. There's also a good chance of players running in and out of shadows, which is a real pain in manual mode. 

There are certainly still things you have to watch out for, and some things you need to do to control how the auto mode works, but if you can manipulate the camera in a way that gets you good photos then use an auto mode.


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## imagemaker46 (Sep 1, 2013)

Sports is one area that shooting auto is not necessary and usually not recommended.  Conditions when shooting sports, especially under controlled light, exposures rarely change.  Most sports require a fast shutter speed and usually an f stop between 2.8-6.3, depending on the light. When I shoot outdoors I shoot between 5.6-6.3 most of the time, as the light goes away I will shoot between 2.8-3.2.


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## Trever1t (Sep 1, 2013)

snerd said:


> > ....... since most photographers today use some form of auto exposure the majority of the time.........
> 
> 
> That's from a Canon article on using auto exposure lock. So, is that a generally true statement? Sometimes I feel like using Av mode to automate one variable, the S/S, but I feel guilty because so many say to leave it in Manual. How about when I shoot my grandson's football game next week? I know I can handle it on Manual, but wouldn't Av be a little quicker than me setting S/S? Just thinking these thoughts out loud..............



Anyone who says to use only Manual settings for everything has no idea what they're talking about. There's a reason my tool box has more than one drawer.


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## Overread (Sep 1, 2013)

Learn how to use each mode - don't just try them actually learn how to use them properly and find out their advantages and disadvantages. 

Then you can make the choice for yourself; whatever everyone else uses is a point of interest but honestly doesn't matter. F8, 1/400sec ISO 100 will get you the exactly the same shot in full manual as it will in full auto and all modes inbetween - the key is making sure you'll get the right settings for the shot you want in the conditions youre in and for your creative vision.


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## KmH (Sep 1, 2013)

curtyoungblood said:


> I think many more professional photographers use automatic modes (at least some times), than people want to admit.


When it comes to camera features, functions, and capabilities, professionals generally use those features, functions, and capabilities that deliver the best final results based on what they or the customer want.

For many older photographers that learned to do photography before cameras had computers in them, using manual mode is an autonomous action like breathing and requires little, if any, conscious thought.
Using the semi-automatic modes may be less automatic for those that shot manual mode for 20 or more years before owning a camera that had a computer in it.


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## Murray Bloom (Sep 1, 2013)

Keith, rather than a camera with a computer in it, I tend to think of DSLRs as computers that happen to be shaped like cameras.


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## imagemaker46 (Sep 1, 2013)

Trever1t said:


> snerd said:
> 
> 
> > > ....... since most photographers today use some form of auto exposure the majority of the time.........
> ...



I guess for the past 40 years I've been I've been doing this photography thing wrong then.  But then I've never said for anyone to just shoot manual, I really don't care how anyone else does it.  Whatever works for the individual.  However making a statement that anyone who says to shoot only in manual doesn't know what they are talking about is just nonsense.


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## vintagesnaps (Sep 2, 2013)

Darn I must be doing it wrong too, I shoot manual and focus manually shooting sports. I just know how to do it, I don't know if a lot people do, I suppose it depends on what/how you've learned. Probably the statement that most photographers shoot some form of auto could be true depending on what the article considers to be 'most' photographers.


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## Murray Bloom (Sep 2, 2013)

A lot of people can focus manually, but modern gear sometimes gets in the way.  DSLR focusing screens are a lot harder for critical focus than the split-prism screens on the Nikon F and F2 models that I cut my teeth on back in the 70s.  Also, once you learn to use it properly, autofocus is just so damned fast with ultrasonic motor lenses.


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## iolair (Sep 2, 2013)

I shoot manual when working with flashes, and otherwise shoot aperture priority.

Joe Buissink, wedding photographer to celebrities and producer of many *amazing* images, has confirmed that he uses 'P' mode - so no shame in not using manual.

For focusing, I generally use automatic except for macro - but do also shoot with three older manual-focus-only lenses (they are also manual aperture).

Learn how the different options perform, then use what works for you.


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## SCraig (Sep 2, 2013)

imagemaker46 said:


> I guess for the past 40 years I've been I've been doing this photography thing wrong then.  But then I've never said for anyone to just shoot manual, I really don't care how anyone else does it.  Whatever works for the individual.  However making a statement that anyone who says to shoot only in manual doesn't know what they are talking about is just nonsense.



A lot of us here remember the old days before automatic modes.  We were brought up on cameras with absolutely no metering whatsoever so it was either learn how to use manual or find something else to do because that was all we had.  These days I'm perfectly happy to let my camera make some of the decisions for me, and I let the situation dictate which camera mode I need to use.  Manual mode is just one of them, as are aperture priority and shutter priority.

It seems to me that being able to say that one "Shoots In MANUAL!" has  become a badge of honor, especially among newer photographers.  I see numerous posts here from people who recently got a camera and are  already trying to make manual mode work for them and can't.  They are  disappointed and annoyed and wondering WHY they can't get decent  photographs when the answer is simply that they are trying to do  something that they don't know how to do.


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## gsgary (Sep 2, 2013)

Trever1t said:


> Anyone who says to use only Manual settings for everything has no idea what they're talking about. There's a reason my tool box has more than one drawer.



what about using Leica M4's i dont have auto


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## CCericola (Sep 2, 2013)

Auto modes were added to cameras at the request of working professional photographers. In my opinion though, one needs to master manual to understand how the auto modes work.


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## Dao (Sep 2, 2013)

SCraig said:
			
		

> A lot of us here remember the old days before automatic modes.  We were brought up on cameras with absolutely no metering whatsoever so it was either learn how to use manual or find something else to do because that was all we had.  These days I'm perfectly happy to let my camera make some of the decisions for me, and I let the situation dictate which camera mode I need to use.  Manual mode is just one of them, as are aperture priority and shutter priority.
> 
> It seems to me that being able to say that one "Shoots In MANUAL!" has  become a badge of honor, especially among newer photographers.  I see numerous posts here from people who recently got a camera and are  already trying to make manual mode work for them and can't.  They are  disappointed and annoyed and wondering WHY they can't get decent  photographs when the answer is simply that they are trying to do  something that they don't know how to do.



More interesting is, some people think they are king if they shoot in manual.  But what they do is shoot in manual mode, set the aperture, and then dial the shutter speed until the camera light meter said it is at "0".   And in the next scene, they point the camera to the subject and then dial the shutter speed again so that the light meter is back to "0".


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## imagemaker46 (Sep 2, 2013)

Dao said:


> SCraig said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Maybe it's just me but I don't understand what you are trying to say here.


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## imagemaker46 (Sep 2, 2013)

CCericola said:


> Auto modes were added to cameras at the request of working professional photographers. In my opinion though, one needs to master manual to understand how the auto modes work.



While having auto modes does help a lot of people, and I agree that one should try and master the manual side of photography, I have always managed to do ok without needing all the crap that has been added to the digital cameras.  I find what has happened is that it is getting more difficult to learn and understand all the functions that are being added.  I would end up wasting more time sorting things out than I would shooting, for me personally I'm quite happy with my understanding of manual.  Honestly I have been frustrated at times just trying to find things on any new cameras I buy.  It really used to be so easy.


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## Trever1t (Sep 2, 2013)

My comment about those who say that to use anything other than manual is less than "manly" stands. 

I have worked with TWO photographers in recent months who thought that they have to consistently use manual to get the shot and in both circumstances their keeper rate was less than 10% during event coverage. I never implied that those who use manual are doing it wrong, I did imply that those who think MANUAL is the ONLY way are!  Seems to be a trend, as the OP has stated that only true photographers use M mode, and that is objectionable and misleading. 


Knowing every tool in your toolbox and when to use what tool is necessary.


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## Dao (Sep 2, 2013)

imagemaker46 said:


> Dao said:
> 
> 
> > SCraig said:
> ...



Sorry, it must be my English.    I was kind of echo what SCraig said.  Some people has a impression that shooting with manual is the king without knowing how and why.  All they do was just do what the camera suggest.  And that is no difference from using semi-auto mode or even auto mode.  But I am sure you are not based on what you said in your sports shooting case.


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## table1349 (Sep 2, 2013)

snerd said:


> I think I misread the statement. I thought it referred to professional photographers. I didn't believe it.  LOL!!



It well could.   Professional means to make your living from photography, not that they necessarily have a large skill set.   

Accomplished photographers go out and get the job done with the best tools available for the job.


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## Dao (Sep 2, 2013)

Trever1t said:


> My comment about those who say that to use anything other than manual is less than "manly" stands.
> 
> I have worked with TWO photographers in recent months who thought that they have to consistently use manual to get the shot and in both circumstances their keeper rate was less than 10% during event coverage. I never implied that those who use manual are doing it wrong, I did imply that those who think MANUAL is the ONLY way are!  Seems to be a trend, as the OP has stated that only true photographers use M mode, and that is objectionable and misleading.
> 
> ...



That is truth.  The key is understand why you shoot manual mode not because the pro shoot manual mode.


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## IByte (Sep 2, 2013)

The modes are just stepping stones for those of us who don't have the luxury of formal training, or growing up in the photography world.

To me telling someone to go manual off the back is like giving a Marine recruit a loaded M16, and expect them to get a tight group.

I got to low crawl before I walk.


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## TCampbell (Sep 2, 2013)

I use _every_ mode of my camera.  Most of the time I find my cycling through Av, Tv, or M -- probably with nearly equal measure in each mode.  I will _occasionally_ use Program, but that's rare (and upon reflection I realize I never actually use "A" but "P" is basically "A" with the ability to override settings and shift to equivalent exposures whereas "A" locks out any changes in attempt to be "foolproof".)

I'm a heavy user of exposure compensation and/or don't center the digital "needle" on my light meter when shooting in M.  Basically I'm always thinking about whether the subject I'm metering is likely to yield a middle-gray.

As Dao points out... if you're taking the meters advice on every shot, then you may as well be shooting in an automatic or semi-automatic mode because you were going to set the exact same exposure that the camera was going to set anyway... you're just taking longer to dial it in because you used manual.


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## SCraig (Sep 2, 2013)

imagemaker46 said:


> While having auto modes does help a lot of people, and I agree that one should try and master the manual side of photography, I have always managed to do ok without needing all the crap that has been added to the digital cameras.  I find what has happened is that it is getting more difficult to learn and understand all the functions that are being added.  I would end up wasting more time sorting things out than I would shooting, for me personally I'm quite happy with my understanding of manual.  Honestly I have been frustrated at times just trying to find things on any new cameras I buy.  It really used to be so easy.


And there is nothing whatsoever wrong with that.  People should use what they are most comfortable and capable with, and in your case it happens to be manual.  If it came out that I was pointing a finger at experienced photographers who know how to use manual then I apologize since that was not my intent.

My point was simply that some people think there is something about shooting in manual mode that sets them apart from the lowly ones shooting in auto or semi-auto modes even though, as Dao mentioned, all they do is line up the meter when using manual.  They tend to proudly exclaim in posts that they ONLY shoot in MANUAL mode, and that fact is usually patently obvious in their photographs.  In many cases they would be a LOT better off by allowing the camera to make some of the decisions for them.


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## imagemaker46 (Sep 2, 2013)

Anyone that believes that they are well above other photographers  because they shoot in manual are mistaken. What sets photographers apart from others is the ability to always produce good images consistently.


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## imagemaker46 (Sep 2, 2013)

Trever1t said:


> My comment about those who say that to use anything other than manual is less than "manly" stands.
> 
> I have worked with TWO photographers in recent months who thought that they have to consistently use manual to get the shot and in both circumstances their keeper rate was less than 10% during event coverage. I never implied that those who use manual are doing it wrong, I did imply that those who think MANUAL is the ONLY way are!  Seems to be a trend, as the OP has stated that only true photographers use M mode, and that is objectionable and misleading.
> 
> ...



I would say that if the two photographers have a keep rate of less than 10% they should probably look into a different line of work.  I have a bike wrench that does a lot, I have a hammer that fixes almost everything, my tool box is basic, I have the skills and experience to use the tools I need.  For many camera owners, they really need to try and understand everything about the technical side of their gear, if it works for them, great, that's all that matters.

I use what works for me.


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## Trever1t (Sep 2, 2013)

Yes, exactly but there seems to be a trend of newer photographers who are being informed that to be a 'real' photographer they have to shoot in Manual mode exclusively...as my 2 examples. I use whatever mode works best, as I see it, for any given scene. 

Going back the the OP, who asked if he needed to shoot M or what our thoughts on the subject are, it seems we BOTH AGREE to know your tools and use the best one for the job, yes?


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## Derrel (Sep 2, 2013)

gryphonslair99 said:
			
		

> Accomplished photographers go out and get the job done with the best tools available for the job.



Without the need to constantly remind others that they always,always,always use MANUAL exposure mode all the time?

Imagine that...

Exposure modes don't mean squat. Now *real photographers*...well, they _coat their own plates minutes before exposing them!_


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## Gavjenks (Sep 3, 2013)

> I think I misread the statement. I thought it referred to professional photographers. I didn't believe it. LOL!!



Most professionals probably do use auto modes.

Auto modes are usually not NECESSARY, but they do increase the speed and automation of your shots, which is often important in a highly competitive or fast-paced environment.

Think about what you do when you're in manual mode. 95% of the time (not including studio lighting), if you're in manual, you are just trudging through a bunch of robotic, automatic motions that don't require very much or any intelligent thought. Usually, you will choose some variable that is important to the shot, like shutter for action or aperture for landscapes first. Then, you look at the little indicator in your viewfinder, and you adjust it until it is in the middle (or +1 -1 whatever) using the other variables at your disposal.

Why spend time doing robotic things that are always the same? As an artist, my time is not best spent clicking a dial in an indicated direction until a screen says I should stop clicking.  That's the sort of mindless step-following that a computer could do just as well and more quickly than me.

So... why not *LET* the computer do it just as well and more quickly? That gives me more time and brainpower to devote to artistic decisions.



Manual is still crucial sometimes, like when you have fixed lighting, especially flash lighting, that is going to remain constant throughout a shoot. Then you should be using manual to make the shoot look internally consistent and to ease post processing. 

But any time when you find yourself mindlessly adjusting each shot based on what the dial tells you, and are not overriding it for any artistic reason, you could generally speed yourself up by using one of the automatic modes. Which is exactly what a lot of professionals are going to do.

Others may just always use manual. Usually these are pros who were around before auto modes and just aren't used to them. For them, it might not be worth it to relearn (and it could screw up their consistent style, which might hurt business, even), but for you if you're just starting out, it will almost certainly be worth it to learn to use all the tools available.


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## bratkinson (Sep 3, 2013)

SCraig said:


> It seems to me that being able to say that one "Shoots In MANUAL!" has become a badge of honor, especially among newer photographers. I see numerous posts here from people who recently got a camera and are already trying to make manual mode work for them and can't. They are disappointed and annoyed and wondering WHY they can't get decent photographs when the answer is simply that they are trying to do something that they don't know how to do.



I am puzzled trying to figure out how newbies to photography are led to believe that shooting in manual is 'the holy grail' of photography. They apparently read some book that quotes the sunny 16 rule and then make those settings manually and can't understand why the picture came out terribly dark, or terribly overexposed shooting other than outside on a sunny day.

Clearly, the biggest 'magic silver bullet' to learn in photography is the exposure triangle and the various tradeoffs that result with each adjustment. The advantage todays' newcomers have that us old-fogies didn't have is the computer in the camera. Nowadays, as one learns photography and the exposure triangle, moving from Auto mode and 'dabbling' in the 'creative zone' modes lets the photographer learn and apply what they know and let the camera figure out the rest. Changeable brightness in similar light source? Av to retain desired DOF. Fast moving subjects? Tv to get a fast enough shutter speed. And so on. Those are the kind of decisions photographers make every day. Let the situation 'direct' the shooting needs. And for those shots that need an 'acceptable compromise' (I love that phrase that someone used here about a month ago), M is how to set up that compromise and get the shot.

Like the mechanic uses more than just open end wrenches in their job (or hammers!), experienced photographers use all the tools in their bag. Everything from Auto to Zoom, Manual to Macro, Flash to Focus, and all f-stops in between are part of that tool bag. Knowing when and how to use them is what makes amateurs into good photographers, and good photographers, great photographers. (I know the list doesn't make sense, but I wanted to get A->Z and went from there).


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## Gavjenks (Sep 3, 2013)

Also note that if you are using manual mode, but you rarely or never actually set ISO manually, then you would probably be better off in Program mode (on Canon that's what it's called at least). It makes it so that one dial click simultaneously adds one aperture and subtracts one shutter in balance.

A lot of people say they shoot in "full manual mode" but actually either have ISO on auto, or just rarely ever touch their ISO. If so, that's a waste of finger energy, because all you're usually doing is bumping down one variable and bumping up the other the same amount, whereas in program mode you do half the number of clicks to accomplish the same thing.


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## The_Traveler (Sep 3, 2013)

TCampbell said:


> I use _every_ mode of my camera.  Most of the time I find my cycling through Av, Tv, or M -- probably with nearly equal measure in each mode.  I will _occasionally_ use Program, but that's rare (and upon reflection I realize I never actually use "A" but "P" is basically "A" with the ability to override settings and shift to equivalent exposures whereas "A" locks out any changes in attempt to be "foolproof".)
> 
> *I'm a heavy user of exposure compensation and/or don't center the digital "needle" on my light meter when shooting in M.  Basically I'm always thinking about whether the subject I'm metering is likely to yield a middle-gray.*
> 
> As Dao points out... if you're taking the meters advice on every shot, then you may as well be shooting in an automatic or semi-automatic mode because you were going to set the exact same exposure that the camera was going to set anyway... you're just taking longer to dial it in because you used manual.



this


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## amolitor (Sep 3, 2013)

Manual mode is best used as a kind of super exposure lock, and if you don't understand what that means you probably shouldn't be using manual mode.

Not that you have to use manual as a super exposure lock, there are other uses. The point is that if you don't understand what that means, then you probably can't effectively use it any other way either.


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## Reverendus (Sep 3, 2013)

I am most definitely a beginner when it comes to photography. Right now I am shooting mostly in manual, not because I think it's the "Holy Grail of Photography" as many other beginners (and from what I have seen, some who are not so new to it) seem to think it is. I am doing so in an attempt to learn as much about how the different settings affect my results as I can. Personally, I feel that the better I understand manual mode, the better I will understand the automatic modes as well.


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## Tailgunner (Sep 3, 2013)

I'm new to Photography and Auto modes as well as Consumer modes drivers me nutz. Manual mode allows me to choose how I want to expose my photos and it locks in that setting allowing me to be consistent.


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## SCraig (Sep 3, 2013)

Tailgunner said:


> I'm new to Photography and Auto modes as well as Consumer modes drivers me nutz. Manual mode allows me to choose how I want to expose my photos and it locks in that setting allowing me to be consistent.



The problem with that is that you will only be consistent as long as the light on the subject doesn't change.  If a cloud covers the sun or your subject walks from sunlight to shade then your exposure requirements will change but your camera settings will not.  If you turn and shoot in a different direction (back lighted or side lighted) the light on the subject will change.  As time passes and the sun rises or lowers the light on the subject will change to.  As long as you are aware of the conditions and make changes to your exposure to compensate everything is fine, but if you don't then you will get inconsistent exposures that might have been prevented by using one of the semi-auto modes.


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## Tailgunner (Sep 3, 2013)

SCraig said:


> Tailgunner said:
> 
> 
> > I'm new to Photography and Auto modes as well as Consumer modes drivers me nutz. Manual mode allows me to choose how I want to expose my photos and it locks in that setting allowing me to be consistent.
> ...



Of course, light is always changing, and sometimes rapidly. Thats why I repeatedly check for light changes. I tend to shoot 2-3 shots of a subject, especially sport related and one reason I like my settings to be locked in place.


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## amolitor (Sep 3, 2013)

Whoa, really?

I bought my camera, set it to M, and locked in the settings then and there. Never changed 'em.


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## runnah (Sep 3, 2013)

I just used auto mode and TTL today. There goes all my street cred.


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## Tailgunner (Sep 3, 2013)

The site is full of wise guys...not to be confused with Wisdom. 

I shot 100 photos of downtown yesterday at 12:30 am at night. I made a couple changes to my settings but other wise the settings stayed the same. There was no need to change and the auto mode would have been all over the place completely ruining the shots.


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## Gavjenks (Sep 3, 2013)

Tailgunner said:


> The site is full of wise guys...not to be confused with Wisdom.
> 
> I shot 100 photos of downtown yesterday at 12:30 am at night. I made a couple changes to my settings but other wise the settings stayed the same. There was no need to change and the auto mode would have been all over the place completely ruining the shots.



?  For night shots, you just set it to a broader metering (not spot metering, because it lands on a lamp and ruins everything, but anything broader is fine), and dial in maybe -1EV to -2EV compensation, so that it doesn't try to make it look like daytime when it's not, and it works just fine on auto, in my experience.

In fact, photographing downtown areas is likely to be a little sketchy when left in manual with no settings changes, because the lighting is varying dramatically from full nighttime storefronts with neon to alleyways with one bare bulb 50 feet away.  Were you shooting a bunch of the same sort of thing?


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## VABuckeye (Sep 3, 2013)

Tailgunner said:


> I'm new to Photography and Auto modes as well as Consumer modes drivers me nutz. Manual mode allows me to choose how I want to expose my photos and it locks in that setting allowing me to be consistent.



I'm new to photography as well and it makes sense to me to learn how to use the various settings and interactions one at a time.  I travel a lot and nothing would be more frustrating to me than "having to shoot in manual" before I'm ready to make the decisions necessary to get good photographs.  Nothing would upset me more than taking a ton of photos in an exotic location I may not visit again and having none of them turn out acceptably.  

As with anything else, slow and steady wins the race.  IMO, a person that takes the time to work with the various settings individually will be better prepared to make decisions with multiple settings down the road.  JMHO.


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## runnah (Sep 3, 2013)

I am going to make a sweeping declaration. 

No one cares what mode you use nor does the mode make the photo.


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## Gavjenks (Sep 3, 2013)

runnah said:


> I am going to make a sweeping declaration.
> 
> No one cares what mode you use nor does the mode make the photo.


The existence of this thread disproves part 1 of the declaration.

part 2 is easily addressed by anecdotal evidence: I have *many *photos that were made by the mode.  Most especially, dramatic action photos of things that happened suddenly and without warning while I was photographing other stuff.  Car crash in action, random hummingbird that's only there for 20 seconds, group of parkour people running past you suddenly, etc.

I am often only able to get photos of things like that, because I have one of my custom modes set to all action parameters, and Tv mode. So even if I'm in the middle of taking a landscape, if something starts to go down, I just click click to Custom Mode 1, point, and shoot, and it usually turns out, within 2-3 seconds.  Completely impossible to even consider doing that in full manual mode.


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## runnah (Sep 3, 2013)

Gavjenks said:


> I have *many *photos that were made by the mode.



Really huh, I didn't know that. I assumed that my camera made the photos and I just pushed the button.

Don't be obtuse, it's not a literal statement.


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## Gavjenks (Sep 3, 2013)

> Don't be obtuse, it's not a literal statement.


What?  I wasn't treating it literally.

I'm saying I have many photos that would not have managed to take if not for the timely convenience of auto modes.  As in, the photos would have been completely impossible in manual mode.

I'm not saying that the camera is merely physically capable of taking photos in different modes.....


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## grafxman (Sep 3, 2013)

When I first got a DSLR I went crazy trying the various modes and settings attempting to center the needle by cranking the shutter speed, aperture and ISO hither and yon. It was ALL a total waste of time, for me at least. Once I went to manual, set the shutter speed and aperture then let the camera control the ISO things got real simple and I started getting good photos. As for the comment about not getting many keepers when shooting manual, I recently shot 4,000 photos of the Smithsonian Museum of Nature History and 1,000 photos of the Smithsonian Indian Museum. I would say at least 99% or more are keepers. Occasionally I will duplicate a shot by turning on the flash. That's usually because of reflections. So obviously I discard one of them. 

While it's nice to explore all the various features of any technical product or gadget, that by no means requires one to use the various features that are available. For example, my 7D has all these features:

8 frames-per-second capture of high-definition
Dual Axis Electronic Level and tilt display
Captures bursts of up to 126 JPEGs (large) when using UDMA CF memory cards, or 15 when shooting RAW files
White balance modes Cloudy, Custom, Daylight, Flash, Fluorescent (White), Kelvin, Manual, Shade, Tungsten
Picture styles Portrait, Landscape, Neutral, Faithful, Monochrome, User Defined 1-3

It's nice to have all those choices because someone somewhere might need them. However I have never used any of that stuff and probably never will. A picture style of faithful with auto white balance gives me all I require. I don't shoot photos in controlled situations much. I don't shoot portraits, weddings, or any place where I have any control of my surroundings. My shooting is outdoors at wildlife, in zoos through half inch highly reflective Plexiglas or wire fences, aquariums through highly reflective Plexiglas or in museums through highly reflective Plexiglas.


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## snerd (Sep 3, 2013)

I have been afraid to use Auto ISO as I've heard the 7D is terrible above even 400 ISO. I would be looking at that number more than the subject!



grafxman said:


> When I first got a DSLR I went crazy trying the various modes and settings attempting to center the needle by cranking the shutter speed, aperture and ISO hither and yon. It was ALL a total waste of time, for me at least. Once I went to manual, set the shutter speed and aperture then let the camera control the ISO things got real simple and I started getting good photos. As for the comment about not getting many keepers when shooting manual, I recently shot 4,000 photos of the Smithsonian Museum of Nature History and 1,000 photos of the Smithsonian Indian Museum. I would say at least 99% or more are keepers. Occasionally I will duplicate a shot by turning on the flash. That's usually because of reflections. So obviously I discard one of them.
> 
> While it's nice to explore all the various features of any technical product or gadget, that by no means requires one to use the various features that are available. For example, my 7D has all these features:
> 
> ...


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## grafxman (Sep 3, 2013)

It doesn't get really terrible until it gets above 3200 then the noise can be removed with Canon's DPP software.


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## Patrice (Sep 4, 2013)

Grafxman, do you not think that Auto ISO is also an auto mode?


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## Newtricks (Sep 4, 2013)

Dao said:


> But what they do is shoot in manual mode, set the aperture, and then dial the shutter speed until the camera light meter said it is at "0".   And in the next scene, they point the camera to the subject and then dial the shutter speed again so that the light meter is back to "0".



Unless using "Sunny/16" or you can judge aperture & shutter speed looking at the scene, one takes a meter reading then adjust the camera from there. If the camera has a great meter built in why not use it?


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## table1349 (Sep 4, 2013)

runnah said:


> I am going to make a sweeping declaration.
> 
> 
> No one cares what mode you use nor does the mode make the photo.





Gavjenks said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> > I am going to make a sweeping declaration.
> ...


And no one  cares.  A photo speaks for itself or it does not.  The mode is nothing but a tool.


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## Newtricks (Sep 4, 2013)

imagemaker46 said:


> ...I find what has happened is that it is getting more difficult to learn and understand all the functions that are being added.  I would end up wasting more time sorting things out than I would shooting, for me personally I'm quite happy with my understanding of manual.  Honestly I have been frustrated at times just trying to find things on any new cameras I buy.  It really used to be so easy.



Got my 1st DSLR about a month ago. The basic settings for taking photos are not a problem, but... I've read and reread the manual so many times learning the other camera setting that pages are falling out of it.


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## Tailgunner (Sep 4, 2013)

Gavjenks said:


> Tailgunner said:
> 
> 
> > The site is full of wise guys...not to be confused with Wisdom.
> ...



I was shooting a Lightning storm over downtown and why I left the settings locked in place with the exception of a few changes.


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## grafxman (Sep 4, 2013)

Patrice said:


> Grafxman, do you not think that Auto ISO is also an auto mode?



Yeh, but you have to go to manual mode to get it. :scratch: Don't ask me why though because I don't know. The camera builders could probably just have called it auto ISO because that's what it is. However I've found it to be the most agreeable mode for me to shoot in especially for wildlife. I just set the f to 8, the shutter speed to 1000 and concentrate on looking out for wildlife. 

It's actually kind of funny thinking about it now. Some while back I was at Fort DeSoto in the Tampa area. There was a white morph reddish egret that would visit there for a few minutes each day. I noticed this guy with a Nikon shooting shorebirds and he was constantly making adjustments, checking his photos and looking very aggravated. Then the rather rare white reddish egret flies in, walks in front of us for about 30 seconds and takes off. I got several shots of it then started back to the parking lot. He said "aren't you even going to check your shots"? I just told him there was no need. I'm pretty sure he was someone who was like I used to be, constantly changing settings in various modes trying to get everything perfect and missing shots of wildlife.


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## Gavjenks (Sep 4, 2013)

> And no *viewer *cares.  A photo speaks for itself or it does not.  The mode is nothing but a tool.


FTFY. _Photographers _do and indeed must care about their tools.



> I was shooting a Lightning storm over downtown and why I left the settings locked in place with the exception of a few changes.


Ah well yeah. That basically makes it a studio with flash lighting, then, in which it wouldn't make sense to use anything other than manual. Regular downtown street photography at night though works fine in auto modes, probably much better than manual when constantly moving from neon light to sodium lamps to moonlight to whatever else every single shot. You can just shoot instead of fiddling each time.



grafxman said:


> Patrice said:
> 
> 
> > Grafxman, do you not think that Auto ISO is also an auto mode?
> ...


???

In your signature, it says Canon 6D, 7d, 50D.  I have a 6D, and auto ISO definitely works in any of the main modes (Av, Tv, M, B, Customs), not just manual.  You activate it in any of those modes simply by hitting the ISO button and rolling over to the left of ISO 50, where there's an auto option.  If you turn it on in an auto mode like Av, it will balance both variables for you.  There are also settings in the menu to tell it HOW to balance the two when you have auto ISO on in auto modes (you can set a maximum for auto ISO, and set priorities for what it prefers to change).

I don't have a 7D or a 50D, but I do have a T2i of around the same vintage, and it also allows auto ISO to be turned on in auto modes. So I suspect those models do as well, certainly the 7D, at least, which is supposed to be fancier than the T2i


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## Tailgunner (Sep 4, 2013)

Gavjenks said:


> Ah well yeah. That basically makes it a studio with flash lighting, then, in which it wouldn't make sense to use anything other than manual. Regular downtown street photography at night though works fine in auto modes, probably much better than manual when constantly moving from neon light to sodium lamps to moonlight to whatever else every single shot. You can just shoot instead of fiddling each time.



I'll have to try auto out sometime when I'm walking around downtown.


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## JacaRanda (Sep 4, 2013)

grafxman said:


> I'm pretty sure he was someone who was like I used to be, constantly changing settings in various modes trying to get everything perfect and missing shots of wildlife.



IMO it is not a bad way for a person to learn (changing settings to see different results).  There will always be missed shots.  I would get bored pretty fast if all or most of my shots were taken at F8 1/1000 and iso was all over the place.


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## Dao (Sep 4, 2013)

Newtricks said:


> Dao said:
> 
> 
> > But what they do is shoot in manual mode, set the aperture, and then dial the shutter speed until the camera light meter said it is at "0".   And in the next scene, they point the camera to the subject and then dial the shutter speed again so that the light meter is back to "0".
> ...



I agree.  What seems to be interesting is some people who shoot manual mode will fix 2 settings out of Aperture, shutter speed and ISO.  And then adjust the last setting until the camera said "0".  Why not just use the priority mode?  The result is the same.


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## grafxman (Sep 4, 2013)

Thanks for that info Gavjenks.  I'll have to play around with that a little. I've just been comfortable with shooting the way I described above and saw no reason to change. I haven't been using my 7D any since I got the 6D. I've been shooting indoors a lot with the 6D because it excels at noise control. Now that fall approaches and the Sigmonster is arriving this Friday I'll be heading to the wetlands with the 7D and the Sigmonster for some wildlife photography. That will outdoors in bright sunlight so I don't won't have to worry about noise.


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