# Tough Crowd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



## bennielou (Sep 23, 2011)

Anyone who shoots weddings knows that the photography rules are getting more and more strict at the churches.  No flash.  Stand in the very back.  Don't breath.  Don't be seen.  Shoot from the lobby......the list goes on and on.

Here's what our wonderful team member, George (kerbouchard) shot at our last wedding.  It cracked me up!







I swear George, next wedding I'm gonna put you in a suit, and sit you in the front row so that you can flash away, man!!!!!

The clergy hates Photogs.  I'm sure somewhere in the Bible, it says: Photographers are the Devil

LOL.  I thought it was funny.  

Bring on the horror stories!


----------



## tirediron (Sep 23, 2011)

Love it!  

It kills me...  you can have fifty guests strobing the whole church with their P&S flashes, but the person/people who are supposed to be getting the shots that the couple will treasure forever is relegated to the back of the bus.


----------



## bennielou (Sep 23, 2011)

What can I say?  It used to be really laxed, but a few bad apples killed it for the rest of us.

They would throw us out in a heartbeat if they even THOUGHT we flashed.  (That's why I have everyone except for Mike-procession and recession-take off their flashes so there isn't even a remote doubt that we are flashing).

Guests however, can flash away.  Jump in the aisles.  Run up and down and across and screw up out shots.  I just don't get it.

Anyhoo, I'm not kidding about putting a team member in a suit and sticking them on the front row.  LOTS of photogs are starting to do it.  It's getting to be about the only way we can get a shot anymore.


----------



## bennielou (Sep 23, 2011)

tirediron said:


> Love it!
> 
> It kills me...  you can have fifty guests strobing the whole church with their P&S flashes, but the person/people who are supposed to be getting the shots that the couple will treasure forever is relegated to the back of the bus.



Oh, and it's not just P&S anymore.  Some of the guests have better gear than we do....


----------



## Robin Usagani (Sep 23, 2011)

at least you get to shoot it.  My last wedding I posted I could only shoot like 3 minutes of the wedding.  Rabbi said no photography at all but finally came to an agreement I could shoot when they come in, and they are about to kiss.


----------



## bennielou (Sep 23, 2011)

I hear ya Schwettylens.  The last jewish wedding I shot was the same deal.  The one before that I was in the hopa with the couple.  Every wedding (and officiant) is different.  Some clergy is cool.  Others are giant dickhe@ds.

I've done weddings where when the wedding started we had to go out into the parking lot and wait for it to be over.

I've had to shoot through little slits in the back door windows from the lobby.

I've had to shoot on a ladder through a small opening in the back wall.  

I've got endless horror stories about this.  And it gets worse each year.

The sad part is that the bride and groom normally have no idea until the day of the wedding, and breaking that news to them is about the hardest thing I have to do.  The bride and groom just ASSUME we can shoot it.  It's gotten so bad now that I explain to them at the initial consult about the fact that I have to HAVE TO follow the rules.

I do what you do however.  I go an talk to the officiant and ask them for the rules and PROMISE them that we know it's a very holy happening.  A lot of the time they will ease up on me because they know I'm not going to do cartwheels off the altar.


----------



## Big Mike (Sep 23, 2011)

The worst one I've shot, the officiant said that we couldn't shoot while he was speaking, but then the whole thing was basically a sermon.  I just hung back far enough that I wouldn't be a distraction to anyone, and shot with a telephoto and no flash.  Not that there was much to shoot while he was droning on anyway.  

I'd say that a much bigger problem is how many guests (or videographers) getting in the way, preventing us from getting the shots we need.  

The worst I've probably encountered was in this church where the whole 'front' of the church was on a 6" raised platform but it was open on three sides.  I was allowed to go on either side to that I could shoot the B&G who were facing the front.  But halfway through the ceremony, about 10 guests got up and stood on the sides to take their P&S photos.  I had to elbow my way though them to get my shots.  

In just about any other situation, you could ask them to sit down, or at least get out of the way.  But in the middle of a wedding ceremony, you can't really say anything.


----------



## bennielou (Sep 23, 2011)

I totally hear you Mike.  I can't tell you how many times we are hindered on the "kiss shot" and the "bride entering/couple exiting" shot because the aisles are clogged by free for all shooters.  A lot of the time, it happens so fast that there is nothing we can do.  Especially when we have to stand at the back pew.  There is no time to run up and elbow people out of the way.

I don't think they mean any harm, they just aren't thinking.  But still, if I wasn't waaaayyyyyy in the back, I could knock granny over and get the shot. (JK of course).


----------



## Big Mike (Sep 23, 2011)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it Mormon Temples where they don't allow photography at all?  

And yes, I always find the officiant before the wedding and ask about their rules.  Most of the time they appreciate this and aren't too strict with their rules.  Sometimes they are really on board and they agree to make an announcement that only the paid photographers are allowed to take photos and to please stay out of their way.  
But it's also a double edge sword.  If you don't ask them before hand, then you can claim ignorance of their rules.  It's not very professional, but I'm guessing that a lot of photographers do it that way, which is why the rules keep getting more and more strict.


----------



## bennielou (Sep 23, 2011)

I've shot one Mormon Wedding, but it wasn't in the Temple, so I was allowed to shoot the wedding.  (With VERY strict rules).

Here in the South, the Bible Belt so to speak, the normal rules are this:

1. NO FLASH EVER DURING THE CEREMONY.  Sometimes we can flash on procession and recession.  It's about 50/50
2. We can not be seen.  We can not move.  Ever.  We have to stake out a spot and stay dead still.  Photographers have been thrown out of churches during ceremonies here for moving.  
3.  At one church I've worked at a few times, the church lady begged us not to let the old blind priest even know we were there.  She told us to just hide, and that he couldn't see very well, so if we hid well, he wouldn't see us anyway.  LOL.  That one is always funny to me.
4.  Normal ok locations are behind the last pew, and balconies.  But again, absolutely NO FLASH and absolutely NO MOVEMENT.

And that is when we get to shoot at all.

As far as why the rules are what they are, you are right.  When I talk to the clergy before the wedding to get the rules, they always tell me about the last bonehead that disrupted the ceremony.  They got their shot.  They screwed it up for everyone else, and then was banned from ever shooting that venue again.  So in one fail swoop, they screwed themselves and every photog that followed them.  "Good Going.  Glad you got the shot!  Not!"


----------



## bentcountershaft (Sep 23, 2011)

Every time a shutter is actuated in a church, Jesus rips the wings off an angel.


----------



## bennielou (Sep 23, 2011)

bentcountershaft said:


> Every time a shutter is actuated in a church, Jesus rips the wings off an angel.



LOL.  I know I shouldn't laugh, but this is funny as hell.


----------



## quiddity (Sep 23, 2011)

Big Mike said:


> ...  Not that there was much to shoot while he was droning on anyway...



You shoot the people snoozing in the aisles.


----------



## tirediron (Sep 23, 2011)

Big Mike said:


> ...If you don't ask them before hand, then you can claim ignorance of their rules. It's not very professional, but I'm guessing that a lot of photographers do it that way, which is why the rules keep getting more and more strict.


Sad but true; I always make sure that I discuss the ceremony and my presence with senior clergy and then I thoroughly brief the couple.  I explain what the church will and will not allow and my assessment of the impact of that on their photos.  I will attempt some negotiation with the church administration, but generally, if the couple wants something that the church doesn't they have to negotiate it and obtain the permission.  To me, it's not worth being black-listed by a church because I broke a rule at the request of clients.  Priests have long memories!


----------



## Big Mike (Sep 23, 2011)

It can be hard because I(we) don't usually talk to the officiant until right before the wedding, and by then, it's too late to run back to both the B&G and let them know what the rules are.

So what I do for my weddings, is I ask them to ask the officiant before the wedding, and then have them e-mail me what was said.  That way, they are full 'in the know'.  
That, however, isn't fool proof.  It seems that it's very common for a church to switch out the officiant at the last minute.  I can't remember how many times I've heard the B&G say that they expected a different officiant that the one they got.  Sometimes it's pretty upsetting to them.


----------



## wannabephotog (Sep 23, 2011)

Sounds like wedding photogs are treated like pariah paparazzi. Why is that?
This and bridezillas is why I will never even attempt to do weddings. Hats off to you brave ones!


----------

