# Rest area



## jcdeboever

Rest area along an interstate.


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## timor

Quick smoke on the edge of bench. Ha.
Curiously looking picture. Very soft, impressionistic look like shot with some soft filter of very strong action. Interestingly the contour of the shirt on the back of that man displays something, what in film photography would be called Mackie line. And there are other things.
How did you get it ?


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## jcdeboever

timor said:


> Quick smoke on the edge of bench. Ha.
> Curiously looking picture. Very soft, impressionistic look like shot with some soft filter of very strong action. Interestingly the contour of the shirt on the back of that man displays something, what in film photography would be called Mackie line. And there are other things.
> How did you get it ?


The sabattier effect? The image was horrible because I was too far away and took it with an outdated Digital Point digital point shoot. I seen something in it so I got to work on it. Using Gimp, I converted it to black and white, removed the noise, and made a slight crop. I believe I straightened it a little as well. My last step I applied a 3200 ISO film plug in. However, between the crop and plug in, I used the technique in this link The Sabattier Effect - Digital Photography School
I did it in Gimp but used his guide to do it. 

Interesting that you noticed that. I was after a Mackie line but did not know how to do it in GIMP, so I looked it up and it brought me to that link. I think it was I save for the photo, overall I was satisfied with the result considering what it looked like prior. 



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## timor

jcdeboever said:


> Interesting that you noticed that.


Well, I am a film photographer...
If you interested in Sabatier effect check out works of Man Ray.
However Mackie line could be obtain chemically. Crawley FX1 formulation is using potassium iodide to get Mackie line without the need of partial solarisation. Your picture resembles more that, than full Sabatier effect.


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## jcdeboever

timor said:


> jcdeboever said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting that you noticed that.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I am a film photographer...
> If you interested in Sabatier effect check out works of Man Ray.
> However Mackie line could be obtain chemically. Crawley FX1 formulation is using potassium iodide to get Mackie line without the need of partial solarisation. Your picture resembles more that, than full Sabatier effect.
Click to expand...


I have always been drawn to his body of work, many years of off & on study. I am really searching for something in this photography journey; a style, process, something is not clear. I am very uneasy with it all and had a huge resistance to post this photo. I think my journey shows in this one photo or an abstract I may post. I like to be decisive and I am literally fumbling along. I still may return to oils at some point but it is not in the cards currently but have also been exploring combining the two mediums. 

Recent understanding... I actually prefer analog photography over digital. I guess looking back a year ago, I could have used that money towards analog equipment. Without researching, I ASSUMED film was dead because I was told that in camera store, that was misguided to sell me something. Terrible what salesman can do. I may end up selling my DSLR and just go mostly B & W analog, developing my own. Not sure how to do post work in the dark room but going to learn. I can develop and have some experience with it but basic as I only used to develop for reference snap shots. Good news is I can use most of my glass on a Nikon N75 I have recently refurbished so not a total loss if I decide to go that direction. Not sure if the big, new Sigma will work. 

You say my photo resembles more than than the Sabatier effect. Can you elaborate? I am curious as it may help identify some stops along this journey. You could PM me if it is more comfortable for you. Thanks for your thoughtful consideration on my post, it means a lot coming from you. 

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## jcdeboever

I should add I am an artist that likes to apply paint to the point that it is considered a finished painting then remove layers. It used to drive my artist buddies insane.  

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## timor

Sorry, I mixed up something in own thoughts. The picture does not look like Sabatier effect. However it looks very dreamy.


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## timor

There is couple of ways to post film photography. The simple: scan the negative and voila, it is there in internet format, however I wouldn't call that finished photograph. The strange: scan the neg and apply photoshop to it. Some call it hybrid workflow and the picture is finished. The risky: make your true photographic print in the darkroom and scan it. Maybe it will look good on the screen, (read this...   Reproduction Hides A Multitude Of Sins ).


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## timor

I didn't play for long time with Sabatier effect. Reason is very simple, not every paper responds well and Ilford RC papers are especially bad. The "rule" here is, that paper should be slow. But I have one totally accidental Sabatier effect made on film, it has completely natural, perfect Mackie line. I hope you won't mind me showing it in your thread.


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## jcdeboever

timor said:


> I didn't play for long time with Sabatier effect. Reason is very simple, not every paper responds well and Ilford RC papers are especially bad. The "rule" here is, that paper should be slow. But I have one totally accidental Sabatier effect made on film, it has completely natural, perfect Mackie line. I hope you won't mind me showing it in your thread.
> View attachment 116190


That is neat. I ordered some developer and fixer, should be here next week. Still hunting for a reasonable priced scanner. I found my recipe book. My Kodalith 6 ASA film arrived yesterday, 5 rolls. Still can't locate my home made cartridge opener, probably will order one. It's slowly coming together. My K1000 patiently awaits. 

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## timor

Litho film. Seems like very good idea. How you gonna use it ?


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## Gary A.

jcdeboever said:


> timor said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't play for long time with Sabatier effect. Reason is very simple, not every paper responds well and Ilford RC papers are especially bad. The "rule" here is, that paper should be slow. But I have one totally accidental Sabatier effect made on film, it has completely natural, perfect Mackie line. I hope you won't mind me showing it in your thread.
> View attachment 116190
> 
> 
> 
> That is neat. I ordered some developer and fixer, should be here next week. Still hunting for a reasonable priced scanner. I found my recipe book. My Kodalith 6 ASA film arrived yesterday, 5 rolls. Still can't locate my home made cartridge opener, probably will order one. It's slowly coming together. My K1000 patiently awaits.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

We used to simply rip open the cassettes with our fingers and peel back the opening to expose the film. Typically, it is hard to lose one's fingers.


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## jcdeboever

timor said:


> Litho film. Seems like very good idea. How you gonna use it ?



Well, I am going to use it in my Pentax K1000. @Derrel  helped me figure out the settings... Dial in ASA 25, get my meter in the middle, then + 2 f-stops.  Kodak D76 stock solution 68 degrees for 6 minutes will be my first roll and then go from there. I may try +1 f-stop on second roll depending on how I like the first set of exposures. I am open to suggestions for creative developing, just going to do basic on the first roll. One question for you though, I have well water, is there something I can put in it to keep the rinse free from spotting? Do I need it?


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## timor

To open the cassette use beer bottle opener. Easier, than fingers...
6 min in stock D76 should be a good start. D76 should give the light film good continuous tone characteristics.
I would suggest you do some substantial bracketing on the first roll going +1, +2 and maybe -0.5 to test the possibilities. Let see the first roll and from there decide on exposure and dev time.
On the other hand I think I will order some sheet (4x5) ortho litho and try Sabatier effect under the enlarger in darkroom. The good thing about ortho film is, it could be developed under red safety light and it is easy to choose the good moment for pseudo solarisation.


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## Gary A.

PhotoFlo for the rinse. Or a few drops of dish detergent.


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## jcdeboever

timor said:


> To open the cassette use beer bottle opener. Easier, than fingers...
> 6 min in stock D76 should be a good start. D76 should give the light film good continuous tone characteristics.
> I would suggest you do some substantial bracketing on the first roll going +1, +2 and maybe -0.5 to test the possibilities. Let see the first roll and from there decide on exposure and dev time.
> On the other hand I think I will order some sheet (4x5) ortho litho and try Sabatier effect under the enlarger in darkroom. The good thing about ortho film is, it could be developed under red safety light and it is easy to choose the good moment for pseudo solarisation.



That's feasible enough on a 20 exposure, 1981 roll of film. Pretty stoked about it. Have a Hedgcoe darkroom book coming as well.


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## timor

Have look at this to:
Has anyone used Ortho Litho film?


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## timor

And subsequently this
Untitled


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## jcdeboever

timor said:


> Have look at this to:
> Has anyone used Ortho Litho film?



Great, thanks for sharing that. I found this in the thread and it is kinda what I am after in general. Will hunt the ingredients down this weekend. Untitled


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## jcdeboever

timor said:


> And subsequently this
> Untitled



Ha Ha, I went right to it and posted it at the same time as you.


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## jcdeboever

@timor, how would it work in a holga 35? Just curious.


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## timor




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## timor

jcdeboever said:


> @timor, how would it work in a holga 35? Just curious.


That's another question. It should, but 1/50 of the second seems to short for ISO 6.
I was thinking of using ortho in pinhole 4x5 with some modification to the holder.


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## jcdeboever

OK. I used some old stuff tonight (developer) and Jims recipe because I can't sleep and am curious. Using the Rodinal one. I like it somewhat. Have to flippin do as @timor says...  I got like two pics out of the roll out of 20.... everything was black that did not turn out.... geez. maybe poop film? I am so pissed... WTF, I am such a F'nnnn noob.


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## timor

You were shooting at night !?
Tonality seems alright, continuous tone, but it is hard to judge contrast in night shot.
Thise two frames, what was the exposure ? Plus or "normal" ?


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## jcdeboever

Yes. F/2.8 28mm  was the biggest I could go, I needed another stop...+2 tei pod, 3s Shutter, ISA 25 +2. What iterates me is the other exposures did not come out. In am ok with this image other than the lines in the film. I am using a regular office scanner as well so that don't help.

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## jcdeboever

Flipping wife is  yelling down at me... Give me a frikkin break...

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## jcdeboever

I need a 1.8 or bigger apeture I think. I went with what I had and did not use any lighting. I am more mad about getting 2/out of 20. Sleep medicine is kicking in..  Gonna try to get some. Wife wants it tonight, gotta go do my homework.,.

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## timor

The other exposures are just blank ?


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## Gary A.

If they're blank ... I find that rather odd.


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## timor

Gary A. said:


> If they're blank ... I find that rather odd.


Hm...  In the best case scenario 20 years old camera... Horizontal run fabric shutter... Probably made in Hong-Kong or China if it is a late model. Problems may always show up. However I have a couple of it, one early, made in Japan and second of Hong-Kong, both work just fine...
Lets wait for more info ...


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## jcdeboever

@timor , I noticed a small slice in the roll on both sides down the majority of the roll. I know now the film slipped. It is my fault, as usual. I really was trying to avoid a graphite lubrication on the film advance mechanism... I knew better. Tore it down and re-did it. It appears that this film is pretty thin in reality and in the fact I did not graphite the winding mechanism, proves that if you want to venture into creative film, get your **** together.


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## timor

Please be patient with me, I am not quite following you. What do you mean by "small slice in the roll" ? What is this "slice" ? A cut ? Cut along the film close to top and bottom edge ? 
And what might be the problem with graphite lubricant ? What did you tear down ?


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## jcdeboever

No worries. Got it sorted. 

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## timor

jcdeboever said:


> No worries. Got it sorted.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


 I worry about my communication skills. You described something and I don't get it. It is me. You know, English is not my native speech. Right now I am doing this . .


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## jcdeboever

timor said:


> jcdeboever said:
> 
> 
> 
> No worries. Got it sorted.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> I worry about my communication skills. You described something and I don't get it. It is me. You know, English is not my native speech. Right now I am doing this . .
Click to expand...

The film sprocket holes had a slice in them after the first few exposures. Loaded a practice roll and it advanced fine. Hopefully the other 4 rolls are OK. I'll just check tension on the other 4 as I go. 

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## timor

And the sprocket holes display this slice along the length of the film ? If so it means that they stopped. Film advance worked, dragging the film over the sprockets, but the shutter was never cocked. Is this, what you think ?


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## jcdeboever

Sounds right. First few grabbed correctly, rest never made it. I recall the tension wasn't right on rewind, only tight for a few turn then got loose. Never really thought to check if the rewind knob was spinning after the first exposure. I usually look for that when advancing to the #1 exposure and kind of forget about it after that. It was a perfect, clean slice down the both sides, not sure how that happened. Oh well, it's sorted now and I know what to look for. I was worried I did something wrong putting the K1000 back together but apparently not. I called the company and they said they would send me new rolls and I told them I would try and shoot another roll first. I loaded a roll up last night and so far it seems fine. I took a few pics this morning and seems to be fine.


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## timor

OK. Seems alright now.


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