# Yikes! 19 years old willing to be a professional photographer!



## Rafidc (Mar 6, 2013)

Hey you all, 

I though it would be great to share with you my burning desires to become a professional photographer, I am 19 years old (as a matter of fact 20 tomorrow!!), I am from Quebec Canada and I really enjoy photography. You might relate with me that having a camera, changes your relationship with the world, you start to be a philosopher in a way. For my part, it has been a determining factor for why I am currently writing a philosophy thesis on the suggestive subjectivism of a photograph, the effect it has on the viewer. Maybe photography only a sensational game? But I think we can all be "d'accord" that the way you tell a story as a successful photographer, is the way people will see the world, therefore, being able to canalize and focalize your photographs on the essential, trying to say what has to be said is a great way to get your message threw. Anyways, I might make an ebook for all of you people out there to help you understand the communicative power that can contain a photographs, therefore helping you to master it. (I am open to comments and suggestions)

Anyways, I have recently made a video that compiles some of my best photographs up to date, I hope you enjoy






It would be great if I could receive feedback from you!​


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## Designer (Mar 6, 2013)

Greetings, Rafidc, and welcome to the forum!  

I think photographers, generally speaking, already have some idea of the ability of photography to affect the viewer's opinion.  The type of photography that is most effective at this is journalistic photography.  Kind of a misnomer, IMO because when I think of journalism, I think mostly of recording, or reporting, not necessarily shaping opinions, but that is how journalism has digressed.

Good luck with your studies!


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## cgipson1 (Mar 6, 2013)

Want feedback on your photos? Post them here.. 2 or 3 at a time, and numbered for reference, please. We would be happy check them out that way!


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## orljustin (Mar 6, 2013)

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 Yikes! 19 years old willing to be a professional photographer! 				"

There's plenty of kids/young adults "willing" to be a "professional photographer".  Your video shows images that are mostly dark and dreary, and overfiltered as well.  You seem to have an ok eye for composition.  There's nothing wrong with taking photos as a hobby.  You don't have to get all "I have a PASSION and a LOVE for photography, so I want to take images of people's dogs for money!!!" and all that.


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## KmH (Mar 6, 2013)

The copy/past stuff, variety of fonts in the OP is interesting.

I get the impression the post's main purpose is to promote subscriptions to the OP's YouTube channel.


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## JamesSomerset (Mar 6, 2013)

Most professional photographers are stuck photographing babies and basic portraits for money. They get out of bed in the morning bored and drained. They rarely get to do anything creative and make a pretty poor living for their effort. To succeed (financially) as a photographer these days you need business and sales skills first and foremost. To succeed (creatively) as a photographer you need to be able to make enough money to live and still have time to experiment, grow, learn, experience and create.

You're 19. If you're serious about going Pro, go work for a photographer in your breaks from studying; learn how the business really work. Realise that you have to be hell of a talent and had a fair degree of motivation, tenacity and luck to make a good wage in photography.

If I had my live over, I'd study a subject that would give me a good job and a good standard of living - then be a photographer in my spare time. The arts colleges are turning over hundreds of photographers every year - people who have studied both photography and business. You're going to need more than passion and desire to make a living.

The issue is that everyone has access to the technology needed to take pretty good photos. A typical customer can't see much of a difference between what you do and what they cando themselves - they aren't aestetically educated enough. (That's why really bad pros can make a very good living - they are sales people with cameras).

I admire your aspiration - but I respectfully suggest that you need to know more about the reality of being a professional photographer before you make a career choice.


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## Steve5D (Mar 6, 2013)

orljustin said:


> "
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> ...



But, on the flip side, why not?


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## pixmedic (Mar 6, 2013)

as much as a willingness to be a pro photographer is good, the willingness to be a good businessman is even better. 
also, welcome to the forum.


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## snowbear (Mar 6, 2013)

Welcome aboard.


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## techniker (Mar 6, 2013)

Rafidc said:


> Hey you all,
> 
> I though it would be great to share with you my burning desires to become a professional photographer, I am 19 years old (as a matter of fact 20 tomorrow!!), I am from Quebec Canada and I really enjoy photography. You might relate with me that having a camera, changes your relationship with the world, you start to be a philosopher in a way. For my part, it has been a determining factor for why I am currently writing a philosophy thesis on the suggestive subjectivism of a photograph, the effect it has on the viewer. Maybe photography only a sensational game? But I think we can all be "d'accord" that the way you tell a story as a successful photographer, is the way people will see the world, therefore, being able to canalize and focalize your photographs on the essential, trying to say what has to be said is a great way to get your message threw. Anyways, I might make an ebook for all of you people out there to help you understand the communicative power that can contain a photographs, therefore helping you to master it. (I am open to comments and suggestions)
> 
> ...




I remember being nineteen too, once.


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## Steve5D (Mar 6, 2013)

He's 19. Of _course _he has a lot to learn.

I like the kid's enthusiasm.


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## Patrice (Mar 6, 2013)

JamesSomerset said:


> If I had my live over, I'd study a subject that would give me a good job and a good standard of living - then be a photographer in my spare time. The arts colleges are turning over hundreds of photographers every year - people who have studied both photography and business. You're going to need more than passion and desire to make a living.



Good advice!

I self financed (no loans) my studies a field of engineering that guaranteed good employment. Used the money to dabble in my hobbies and passions and provide an affluent lifestyle for my family. Worked my degree for 25 years and retired at 50.

Get a decent education in a valued field and then use the money to play.


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## Majeed Badizadegan (Mar 6, 2013)

Boy, I don't know where this idea stems from that being a "professional photographer" is glorious and easy. It isn't. 

 It is poor form to join a forum with your first post plugging your own work on an external site. But I was curious enough to look at your Youtube video. 

I have mixed feelings-- your work is very much all over the spectrum.  You have a handful of shots with poor execution, a handful with good execution, and a whole bunch in the middle. 

So you're "willing to become a professional photographer"?  Who isn't? I mean, the very way that is phrased is going to shoot up red flags for most of us who have seen this same thing time and time again.  it seems a lot of people that come to this forum are more than "willing" to become pro. But what they often don't realize is there's so much more to it than being "willing". 

My advice, take it or leave it: post your best shots here in our galleries and get feedback. Learn from it. Don't put the cart before the horse.


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## Steve5D (Mar 7, 2013)

Rotanimod said:


> Boy, I don't know where this idea stems from that being a "professional photographer" is glorious and easy. It isn't.



Did someone say it is?



> So you're "willing to become a professional photographer"?  Who isn't? I mean, the very way that is phrased is going to shoot up red flags for most of us who have seen this same thing time and time again.  it seems a lot of people that come to this forum are more than "willing" to become pro. But what they often don't realize is there's so much more to it than being "willing".



The kid's from Switzerland. I'd be willing to bet that there's a bit of a language barrier at play here, and that what he _meant _to suggest is that he _wants _to be a pro as opposed to being _willing _to be a pro...


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## LaFoto (Mar 7, 2013)

Rafidc said:


> I am from Quebec Canada



Not QUITE Switzerland, but maybe "close"? 

He hasn't come back since yesterday to read your replies and comment on what you said, which kind of shows HOW deeply interested he is in hearing what you have to say. I tend to believe that the main purpose was to promote clicks to his youtube-video...


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## ralphh (Mar 7, 2013)

Patrice said:


> Good advice!
> 
> I self financed (no loans) my studies a field of engineering that guaranteed good employment. Used the money to dabble in my hobbies and passions and provide an affluent lifestyle for my family. Worked my degree for 25 years and retired at 50.
> 
> Get a decent education in a valued field and then use the money to play.



OMG, that' me!!  Well, swap out "Engineering" for "Software Engineering" and, being in my mid-thirties, I'm on track for, but not yet at, retiring at 50 or there abouts

Having turned my childhood hobby (computer programming) into a career, I can tell you that when you HAVE to do it every day, whether you feel like it or not, a lot of the fun gets sucked out, and it does feel like a job, not a passion.  And then you really don't want to see a PC when you get home from work lol (except for editing photos of course!!)

I'm very happy keeping my photography as something that I can do and enjoy on my own terms.

There's effectively two types of self-employed professional photography;
Product based and service based

- Product based; you go take the photos you want, and try to sell them - landscape and wildlife photographers genereally come under this category - you're selling a finished product
- Service based; people hire you to shoot portraits, weddings etc - you're selling a service

Sadly it is MUCH harder to make a living as a photographer with a product based approach, which is a shame cause it's probably the route most of us would rather take.  Then again, that is why it's harder - you're effectively competeing against every hobbyist with a camera.  For someone to buy your photos they have to really stand out.  It's much easier to take the best photo someones ever seen of _*their *_child than it is to take the best photo someones ever seen of a bear, and they're much more likely to fork out cash for it too.

Not saying don't do it, but do come up with a business plan and think about how much money you need to make for it to be worth while, and how likely that is you'll make that much etc.

Having watched the video, you have some great shots there, but if this is the stuff you want to shoot, you need to find a buyer, and that is sadly not always easy - people rarely pay for photography as art.  Stock libraries might be a good place to start.


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## Rafidc (Mar 7, 2013)

Thanks for all the responses and advice, I do acknowledge there is lots of skill and motivation needed, I do think my passion brings me sufficient motivation to help me go all the way. To respond to those of you who where suggesting me to make other studies and keep photography as a hobby, I would say that I have already thought about that, I have studied mechanical engineering for two years before this year I am doing in philosophy, and when I started to study in mechanical engineering, I considered it as the best job I could do, considering the salary vs the job enjoyment, I didn't have any particular passion, but I though it was the best way to go. But afterwards, I was thinking well your job is the thing you spend the most time doing in your life, why should it be boring, why wouldn't I have a job I am passionate about, and furthermore considering my job as an enjoyment, and for sure that there might be some rough times, but there are rough times in every job. Logically, if you love your job, there is a chance you will love your job. It is true that I am young, that I have a lot to learn and that I might be a little naïf about all the photographic industry, but I am willing to learn. I am the singleminded type that will try with all he can to succeed so I think that will help me for the long run.


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## ralphh (Mar 7, 2013)

Good for you!  

I honestly hope you do succeed AND enjoy it too! 

Next step - come up with a plan!


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## EIngerson (Mar 7, 2013)

Go to college and get a "real" job kid. lol. I hope you become a doctor or better yet a teacher. Not the best money in teaching, but you get to influence the future. I said that because if you're willing to accept photographer pay, teaching would let you live in luxury.

Good luck either way buddy. I hope you enjoy whatever you end up doing.


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## Steve5D (Mar 7, 2013)

LaFoto said:


> Rafidc said:
> 
> 
> > I am from Quebec Canada
> ...



His location says Switzerland.

I'm _from _New York, but I _live _in Portland, Oregon. Hence the location under my avatar...


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## KmH (Mar 7, 2013)

EIngerson said:


> I said that because if you're willing to accept photographer pay, teaching would let you live in luxury.


QFT!

Here in the US the average self-employed retail photographer makes about $32,000 a year, gross.
Out of that $32,000 the photographer has to pay income, social security, unemployment taxes. After taxes the photographer has about $24,000 left for all their other personal expenses.
The top 10% to 15% of all photographers make more than $50,000 a year. The vast majority of those photographers have their photography business in a major market, like New York, L.A., Chicago, London, Paris.


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## ralphh (Mar 7, 2013)

Ouch!  Didn't realise the picture was that bleak.  I can certainly see why photographers get so upset when people moan about their prices.


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## ghache (Mar 7, 2013)

KmH said:


> EIngerson said:
> 
> 
> > I said that because if you're willing to accept photographer pay, teaching would let you live in luxury.
> ...


Not totally true....i know a few photographers around here where in this city of 250 000k who run their own photography business and makes over 60-70k a year.... easily. If you have constant clients, do weddings and destination weddings, you dont really need to be in Paris or new york to be making a living off photography. you just need clients (and skills of course as they create top notch work) and this is where your business skills comes handy.


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## Rafidc (Mar 7, 2013)

To remove doubts, I am currently overseas in Switzerland for my studies, I come from Quebec Canada.


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## Rafidc (Mar 7, 2013)

Steve5D said:


> LaFoto said:
> 
> 
> > Rafidc said:
> ...



To remove doubts, I am currently overseas in Switzerland for my studies, I come from Quebec Canada.​


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## KmH (Mar 7, 2013)

ghache said:


> Not totally true....i know a few photographers around here where in this city of 250 000k who run their own photography business and makes over 60-70k a year.... easily. If you have constant clients, do weddings and destination weddings, you dont really need to be in Paris or new york to be making a living off photography. you just need clients (and skills of course as they create top notch work) and this is where your business skills comes handy.


Of course it's not totally true. It can't be because it's about the AVERAGE retail photographer, not the few exceptions.

Your examples point out the fact that to get to an average of $32,000 a year, a lot of retail photographers have to make substantially less than the average.

FWIW, the income information comes from the US Department of Labor.

IIRC, you're in Canada?


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## manaheim (Mar 7, 2013)

techniker said:


> I remember being nineteen too, once.



 my reaction exactly.

Particularly the part about helping us understand or whatever it was.

-sigh-  I'm old enough for the young to be insufferable.


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## cgipson1 (Mar 7, 2013)

manaheim said:


> techniker said:
> 
> 
> > I remember being nineteen too, once.
> ...



lol! I'm old enough for almost everyone to be insufferable!


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## manaheim (Mar 7, 2013)

Wow man... that's really old.


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## Rafidc (Mar 7, 2013)

cgipson1 said:


> manaheim said:
> 
> 
> > techniker said:
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wow that must be old! haha Would you agree that it is easier today to get a place in the game, than in your days, because of internet and all that stuff? I mean for example freelancing photography is much easier, if you are good, at networking, blogging and photographing, I think you will succeed. If you get good work out there, and have the skill of getting a good audience, that spread the word and generate contracts, I think it can work. It is much more complex than that but you get the idea. I might me a bit idealistic here and even might be wrong, correct me if it is the case, I am the young kid here!


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## pixmedic (Mar 7, 2013)

Rafidc said:


> cgipson1 said:
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> 
> > manaheim said:
> ...



that is exactly what makes it more difficult to break in to photography on a professional level nowdays. back in "the day", you actually had to learn your camera and how it works before you could even think of getting paid to do it. now, not so much, as evident by all the pro photography bloggers and FB'ers. the overall process hasn't changed though, your still marketing a skill. providing of course, that your product is of sufficient quality. (which is where most new weekend "pros" are lacking.)

the most important skill for a professional photographer is their business skill. getting an audience wont mean anything if they all want everything done for next to nothing. and it will mean even less if you DO everything for next to nothing.


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## cgipson1 (Mar 7, 2013)

Rafidc said:


> cgipson1 said:
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> > manaheim said:
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NO... it is much harder! There are also MANY, MANY more people out there trying to be "professional" photographers now.. and the only reason they can do that is because camera's have gotten so advanced, that they get acceptable images (not GOOD, just acceptable) just due to the camera they use. With that many people competing against you... you would either have to get really lucky, or be REALLY REALLY good to make a reasonable living from photography. The low prices charged by many, make it impossible to make a decent living unless you can get good enough to justify higher tier clients... and that takes years (so you will starve in the meantime, or get a job on the side).

Everybody is using the Internet, facebook, Flickr, Smugmug, etc... to do business (even the ones that are so bad, they probably shouldn't even own a camera!).... and they all think that they will be successful  using the "Internet". The only way you are going to get  / have the skill needed to get good word of mouth references from decent (willing to pay more than peanuts) clients, is to actually get very skillful which means a lot of shooting, good equipment and YEARS of practice and learning (and you will also need GOOD BUSINESS practices also). Otherwise you will just be one more Craigslist photographer turning out mediocre crap. 

If you really want to be successful.. get a business degree... and use that to run your photography business. If you are good enough at business, you don't have to be the best photographer in the world... and  you are much more likely to succeed!

Of course, most people want to be a professional photographer because it doesn't require a degree, and because it has low start up costs. They don't realize that even if you are good, you won't make decent money unless you bust your A$$ and really work hard at it... which goes counter to why they wanted to be professional photographers in the first place. Most of the new "PRO's" are often supported by their husbands (or wives) and the money they bring in is minimal... not enough to survive on if they were the sole provider.

I hope you find that helpful... but I doubt if you will listen!


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## EIngerson (Mar 7, 2013)

ghache said:


> KmH said:
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> > EIngerson said:
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"few" being the key word. Very few. I'm also willing to bet those few have very little time away from their photography business.


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## rexbobcat (Mar 7, 2013)

So, like, if photography is the only thing that one is kinda sorta decent at, should that person go on to become a mediocre and apathetic doctor?


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## pixmedic (Mar 7, 2013)

rexbobcat said:


> So, like, if photography is the only thing that one is kinda sorta decent at, should that person go on to become a mediocre and apathetic doctor?



if they can get through medical school? yes. much better chance at making enough money to support themselves.


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## rexbobcat (Mar 7, 2013)

pixmedic said:


> if they can get through medical school? yes. much better chance at making enough money to support themselves.



A flat screen TV at the expense of personal happiness/fulfillment, eh? 

Sounds legit.


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## EIngerson (Mar 7, 2013)

rexbobcat said:


> So, like, if photography is the only thing that one is kinda sorta decent at, should that person go on to become a mediocre and apathetic doctor?



Lol, I personally would try to push them in that direction.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Mar 7, 2013)

KmH said:


> The copy/past stuff, variety of fonts in the OP is interesting.
> 
> I get the impression the post's main purpose is to *promote subscriptions to the OP's YouTube channel*.



I agree with that motives check, I ain't subscribing either


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## EIngerson (Mar 7, 2013)

rexbobcat said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> > if they can get through medical school? yes. much better chance at making enough money to support themselves.
> ...



I'm not bashing photography as a profession either. I just don't want the OP to have this delusion that he's going to jump into this glamorous photography career that doesn't require bust ass work to get adequate pay. That part always seems to get left out.


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## rexbobcat (Mar 7, 2013)

EIngerson said:


> I'm not bashing photography as a profession either. I just don't want the OP to have this delusion that he's going to jump into this glamorous photography career that doesn't require bust ass work to get adequate pay. That part always seems to get left out.



I understand the sentiment in the context of the OP's post, but I disagree with the prevalent notion that being "well off" is somehow more important than finding some satisfaction out of, and being good at my chosen career.


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## pixmedic (Mar 7, 2013)

rexbobcat said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> > if they can get through medical school? yes. much better chance at making enough money to support themselves.
> ...



there's nothing happy or fulfilling about poverty.  
being able to provide for yourself and your family is TOTALLY legit.
noone is saying he CANT be a professional photographer. he could also be an astronaut, a General, or the next US president.


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## rexbobcat (Mar 7, 2013)

pixmedic said:


> there's nothing happy or fulfilling about poverty.
> being able to provide for yourself and your family is TOTALLY legit.



Who says I'm/they're going to live in poverty? 

I don't want children.

May I please know where you got your crystal ball from?


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## pixmedic (Mar 7, 2013)

rexbobcat said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> > there's nothing happy or fulfilling about poverty.
> ...




spencers, in the mall.


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## rexbobcat (Mar 7, 2013)

pixmedic said:


> spencers, in the mall.



You should consider getting a refund.


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## pixmedic (Mar 7, 2013)

rexbobcat said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> > spencers, in the mall.
> ...



yea, I guess i should have inquired where you got yours from. apparently its a higher quality model them mine.


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## EIngerson (Mar 7, 2013)

rexbobcat said:


> EIngerson said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not bashing photography as a profession either. I just don't want the OP to have this delusion that he's going to jump into this glamorous photography career that doesn't require bust ass work to get adequate pay. That part always seems to get left out.
> ...



I didn't think it was the prevalent notion, but If you or anybody finds a satisfying career in photography, go for it. I think most young people that show interest in it are blind to the amount of work actually involved with it, let alone making a living out of it.


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## rexbobcat (Mar 7, 2013)

pixmedic said:


> yea, I guess i should have inquired where you got yours from. apparently its a higher quality model them mine.



Nah, mine doesn't try and tell the future. It's just more optimistic and less presumptuous.


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## pixmedic (Mar 7, 2013)

rexbobcat said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> > yea, I guess i should have inquired where you got yours from. apparently its a higher quality model them mine.
> ...



I said he could be an astronaut. seriously, how much more optimistic can you get?


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## rexbobcat (Mar 7, 2013)

EIngerson said:


> I didn't think it was the prevalent notion, but If you or anybody finds a satisfying career in photography, go for it. I think most young people that show interest in it are blind to the amount of work actually involved with it, let alone making a living out of it.



I meant prevalent on this forum, as in almost EVERY single person is quick to tell the OP that they will totally hate photography as a profession.  It's almost as if nobody wants to point the OP in a direction to give them more resources to make a more educated decision.

Let's just tell the OP to become a doctor or something. It's easier.


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## manaheim (Mar 7, 2013)

rexbobcat said:


> EIngerson said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not bashing photography as a profession either. I just don't want the OP to have this delusion that he's going to jump into this glamorous photography career that doesn't require bust ass work to get adequate pay. That part always seems to get left out.
> ...



Pfft.  Who you kiddin'?

The OP is nineteen.  That means that they're immortal and unstoppable.  Anyone who says anything that is counter to their plan or agenda is simply some old fart who doesn't understand the way it is "these days".  This person is going to change the world.

Oh and the OP is probably used to... what... minimum wage?  Odds are good that, like many such as this person, they will make at LEAST that doing the photography thing, and since they've never made more than that, it'll be a great place to start.  Why not?  McDonalds or Photography?  If it's the same pay and better work?  Sold!

The thing is, many of us read this and howl in pain... but the OP probably reads this and says "Yeah!  Totally!"  And really... why not?  If I was just starting out and was full of piss and vinegar, I'd probably do the same thing.  There's at least a chance that the OP can become VERY successful.  Sure, there's a lot more chance that they won't and they'll wind up making a lifetime adjusted rate of like $40K a year... but $40K a year is a lot of money to some people and in some parts of the country, so really... that's not at all bad.

*shrug* It's essentially totally logical and totally unstoppable.


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## EIngerson (Mar 7, 2013)

And here I thought I was helping you limit your competition. lol Just kidding.


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## pixmedic (Mar 7, 2013)

rexbobcat said:


> EIngerson said:
> 
> 
> > I didn't think it was the prevalent notion, but If you or anybody finds a satisfying career in photography, go for it. I think most young people that show interest in it are blind to the amount of work actually involved with it, let alone making a living out of it.
> ...



wait a sec...if you read MY post (the first OR second) i believe I mentioned a few times about getting a good education in business, and not giving away quality work. as well as learning good marketing skills. 
none of which eludes to any prediction by me that the OP will hate his job as a photographer, OR that he shouldnt do it. bringing up the realistic difficulties of choosing this profession is not necessarily meant as a deterrent, but instead should be taken by the OP as a list of issues he will need to address if he wants to make a serious run at photography as a full time job.


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## rexbobcat (Mar 7, 2013)

manaheim said:


> Pfft.  Who you kiddin'?
> 
> The OP is nineteen.  That measn that they're immortal and unstoppable.  Anyone who says anything that is counter to their plan or agenda is simply some old fart who doesn't understand the way it is "these days".  This person is going to change the world.
> 
> ...



That may be but who are we to change his mind?  

Why not give him the resources (or at least help the OP to find them) to make a decision on their own terms.

I'm sure the OP does not give a damn who on this forum failed, or wages out, or burnt out. 

Trying to "save"  people from non-lethal risks that they are willing to take is just another way that people try and assert their own perceived superiority.

I'm not gonna tell anyone not to go into this profession because I honestly have NO idea about their personal situation.


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## rexbobcat (Mar 7, 2013)

pixmedic said:


> wait a sec...if you read MY post (the first OR second) i believe I mentioned a few times about getting a good education in business, and not giving away quality work. as well as learning good marketing skills.
> none of which eludes to any prediction by me that the OP will hate his job as a photographer, OR that he shouldnt do it. bringing up the realistic difficulties of choosing this profession is not necessarily meant as a deterrent, but instead should be taken by the OP as a list of issues he will need to address if he wants to make a serious run at photography as a full time job.



I'm probably not referring to your post specifically then. All of my responding has been to your questionably sarcastic (?) remark that being a mediocre doctor is better than being a good "insert creative profession here"

I'd hate to go to a doctor with that mentality. "Being a doctor was my backup plan, because of the money."


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## pixmedic (Mar 7, 2013)

rexbobcat said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> > wait a sec...if you read MY post (the first OR second) i believe I mentioned a few times about getting a good education in business, and not giving away quality work. as well as learning good marketing skills.
> ...



Oooh.. See,  you said kinda sorta decent photographer... I thought you were comparing a mediocre doctor to a mediocre photographer.


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## rexbobcat (Mar 7, 2013)

pixmedic said:


> Oooh.. See,  you said kinda sorta decent photographer... I thought you were comparing a mediocre doctor to a mediocre photographer.



Oh. No I was just trying describe a good photographer in a humble way since "good" has never been more subjective.

Words are cheap. Lol


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## pixmedic (Mar 7, 2013)

rexbobcat said:


> pixmedic said:
> 
> 
> > Oooh.. See,  you said kinda sorta decent photographer... I thought you were comparing a mediocre doctor to a mediocre photographer.
> ...



Ah.. Well,  that being the case then, i totally agree with you.


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## manaheim (Mar 7, 2013)

rexbobcat said:


> manaheim said:
> 
> 
> > Pfft.  Who you kiddin'?
> ...



I believe that was pretty much my point.


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## rexbobcat (Mar 7, 2013)

manaheim said:


> I believe that was pretty much my point.



You believe or you're absolutely sure? Lol

I misread parts of your first post. Sorry 'bout that.


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## manaheim (Mar 7, 2013)

rexbobcat said:


> You believe or you're absolutely sure? Lol
> 
> I misread parts of your first post. Sorry 'bout that.



No biggie.


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## cgipson1 (Mar 7, 2013)

rexbobcat said:


> EIngerson said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not bashing photography as a profession either. I just don't want the OP to have this delusion that he's going to jump into this glamorous photography career that doesn't require bust ass work to get adequate pay. That part always seems to get left out.
> ...



Maybe some people can be happy at 30k a year gross... but not me! lol! Job satisfaction is wonderful, but it doesn't pay the bills!


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## pgriz (Mar 7, 2013)

cgipson1 said:


> rexbobcat said:
> 
> 
> > EIngerson said:
> ...



That is true, but there's another side to this discussion.  We do control which bills we incur and which recurring expenditures we decide to be "needed".  Above a certain basic level, every buying choice is for fulfilling desires, fantasies, creature comforts, aspiration for recognition, striving for status, and (sometimes) just being plain greedy.  It has been noted by many that much of the North American effort since WWII has been devoted to acquisition of status by accumulation of material goods.  For a while, it benefited the general local population, as the producers were our neighbours or entities that were in the same general area.  But when those production jobs went elsewhere... the pyramid of consumption found that the base is eroding, and at a certain point the current structure cannot be sustained.  So perhaps less focus on revenue, and more attention to the general good that is created, would help restore some sanity to our way of living.  One can hope.


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## dmunsie (Mar 8, 2013)

"Anyways, I might make an ebook for all of you people out there to help you understand the communicative power that can contain a photographs,"

Preaching to the choir my friend.


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## manaheim (Mar 8, 2013)

dmunsie said:


> "Anyways, I might make an ebook for all of you people out there to help you understand the communicative power that can contain a photographs,"
> 
> Preaching to the choir my friend.



More presumption than preaching.


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