# Well that was just plain weird!



## tirediron (Feb 27, 2016)

I was shooting the annual Wounded Warrior BC Vancouver Island fund-raising run today and we started out in a local coffee shop which is a major sponsor.  As I always do when the team is milling around before the start, I get a few shots of them in the shop, especially when they're talking to the staff as the owners love to post this sort of thing on social media.  Anyway...

I'm just wandering around, shooting here and there (maybe 10-15 frames total, not much) and I see a group of the runners talking to a couple of the servers at the back of the room, so I up-camera and shoot.  All seems perfectly normal, and as I move back toward the door to get a wide shot, I see this fellow walking toward me.  I assume he's either going to leave, or get something from the "fixin's bar" ride beside me.

Nope, he walks right up to me, as in about 6" away (as I'm trying to get out of his way and not miss my shot) and throws his coffee (the big mug of course!) all over me and my camera, calls me some names not fit for a 'G' rated forum, and walks out.  I'm always aware of people who don't seem to want their picture taken and take great pains to respect that; I'd not even noticed this fellow before.  It all wiped up easily, and on the bright side, I've got the only cinnamon scented Nikon in town, but... WTF?????


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## 480sparky (Feb 27, 2016)

If it were me, I'd have him charged with assault.


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## jake337 (Feb 27, 2016)

Just be happy it wasn't McDonald's coffee.   I heard they serve that **** hot.


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## Gary A. (Feb 27, 2016)

I'm with Sparky ... I would have followed him, snapping all the way and then get a shot of his car license plate then called the authorities. I hate cinnamon in my cameras.  Sorry that happened to you, it all sucks.


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## tirediron (Feb 27, 2016)

Any other time, I would probably just have dropped him right then and there, but when you're in a room with a bunch of combat vets suffering with PTSD any sort of conflict usually doesn't go well!


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## 480sparky (Feb 27, 2016)

Gary A. said:


> .... I hate cinnamon in my cameras. ..........



What about bacon?


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## Gary A. (Feb 27, 2016)

480sparky said:


> Gary A. said:
> 
> 
> > .... I hate cinnamon in my cameras. ..........
> ...


Who doesn't like bacon?


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## snowbear (Feb 27, 2016)

Sorry - I guess there's one in every crowd.

If you got a shot of him, plaster it all over the internet with the caption "@$$hole"


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## 480sparky (Feb 27, 2016)

Gary A. said:


> 480sparky said:
> 
> 
> > Gary A. said:
> ...



I'm gonna guess...........................




pigs?


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## tirediron (Feb 27, 2016)

snowbear said:


> Sorry - I guess there's one in every crowd.
> 
> If you got a shot of him, plaster it all over the internet with the caption "@$$hole"


Mehh...  it was more the weirdness of the situation that struck me.  I'm guessing he may have been a couple of fries short of a Happy Meal.


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## tirediron (Feb 27, 2016)

480sparky said:


> Gary A. said:
> 
> 
> > 480sparky said:
> ...


They have to like bacon... they're made of it!


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## snowbear (Feb 27, 2016)

Yeah - at least he wasn't shooting, like sometimes happens down here.


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## zombiesniper (Feb 27, 2016)

Sucks that this happened. Good on you for the more than pleasant attitude about it.

One question though? 
With all that cinnamon coffee will that mean your stuck with sepia portraits from now on?


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## tirediron (Feb 27, 2016)

zombiesniper said:


> Sucks that this happened. Good on you for the more than pleasant attitude about it.
> 
> One question though?
> With all that cinnamon coffee will that mean your stuck with sepia portraits from now on?


Oohh... hadn't thought of that...


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## DarkShadow (Feb 28, 2016)

Wow! that sucks,You must have been In shock from disbelief.People can be strange and sometimes flat out dangerous.Your the better man to let it go, someone else may have turned into something much worse.


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## Parker219 (Feb 28, 2016)

PLEASE TELL ME you got a photo of him just about to pour the coffee on you?


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## Parker219 (Feb 28, 2016)

You have more restraint than me because he did not know your equipment was water / coffee proof, his intention was to destroy your equipment and embarrass you.

There definitely would have been a fight if that was me.

If the cops came, its a fight, not an assault since you both can agree to drop the chargers since technically, he assaulted you.


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## 407370 (Feb 28, 2016)

or you could assume he is suffering from PTSD or similar and his actions could be understood if not accepted.


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## jaomul (Feb 28, 2016)

It's good of you to be so calm about it all. I am not familiar with this type of meeting but from the comments of others there may have been issues other than the norm at play here.

This action probably cannot be rationally explained by you, or the man that threw the coffee at you


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## limr (Feb 28, 2016)

I also applaud you, John, for taking it all in stride and understanding that there might be more at play than him just being an arsehole.


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## Gary A. (Feb 28, 2016)

Regardless if he had PTDS or not, I'd still would have notified the cops and let the court/police sort it all out. He has a problem, (maybe PTDS ... maybe not ... But definitely a problem). People in responsibility/authority need to know because next time it may not be coffee and he needs to know the seriousness of his action(s) and that he have to answer to his actions.

Odds are he's at a bar laughing it off with his buds.

Coffee on your camera (weatherproof) and on you (weatherproof unless you're mouth is open) isn't a big deal by your standards ... And I understand that ... I'm worried about next time and the next victim ... Maybe a child with a camera or a women laughing ... That's the problem with this stuff is that it can be unpreditictable. Usually it isn't 'extreme', but I've seen people who are perfectly normal one minute then get all stressed out the next.

I have nothing but praise for our Vets ... But for a guy, in a public gathering and no interaction with you, to walk up and toss a cup of coffee at you is either just an out-n-out a&&hole or he has possibly an extreme case of PTSD or both ... But in any case it needs looking into by those with the expertise to determine the extent of his PTSD and the potential to cause real harm to others.


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## 407370 (Feb 28, 2016)

Gary A. said:


> Regardless if he had PTDS or not, I'd still would have notified the cops and let the court/police sort it all out. He has a problem, (maybe PTDS ... maybe not ... But definitely a problem). People in responsibility/authority need to know because next time it may not be coffee and he needs to know the seriousness of his action(s) and that he have to answer to his actions.
> 
> Odds are he's at a bar laughing it off with his buds.
> 
> ...


Gary I have a lot of respect for a lot of what you write in this forum but in this case you could not be more wrong.
The guy was at at event for ex military servicemen, that in itself is enough reason to avoid police involvement. The guy needs treatment not incarceration. 
If he was suffering from diabetes at his blood sugar was at either extreme he would display aggression, not because he is aggressive but because of a bio chemical reaction, is a policeman going to help????? 
If he was suffering from PTSD or similar then he needed to speak to a trained medical technician  to carry out an assessment on mental stability and if required be admitted to an appropriate facility to have his meds reviewed, would a policeman help with this????
As  a rule mental instability and law enforcement should be kept apart as one is no good to the other. I will not post individual links to horror stories of psychiatric patients treatment by police but please read this use of police force against people with psychiatric disabilities - Center for Public Representation


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## Gary A. (Feb 28, 2016)

My points are similar to your points ... But, (the big but), here in the States, well at least here in Los Angeles, great strides are being exercised in broadening police training with extensive classes in dealing with those with mental disorders, but also in hiring mental health experts for direct and daily involvement with police and how they interact/intervene/respond to those exhibiting mental disorder. Unfortunately and probably wrongfully, I assumed that all police agencies would have similar programs.  Many/most police here are vets and I have seen police tend to use extreme sensitivity when interacting with vets.

For clarity, if this was a case of extreme PTDS, I also would not endorse jail incarceration ... But a chat, between the police and the offender, explaining the severity of his action may be a 'wake-up-call' to the gentleman that he needs help.  Also, here in Los Angeles, the police have direct contact(s) with social workers, hospitals and veteran hospitals and veteran government agencies.  Not only do local police have the tools for evaluation of the perpetrator, they have direct access to those that have jurisdictional responsibility for his disability and long term help.

Just judging for myself, I wouldn't have a clue who or where to call for an extreme PTDS case. Even if I find the correct agency, there will be a credibility gap between myself and the agency.  A call from the police would bridge that gap.


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## table1349 (Feb 28, 2016)

For $16.99 you can be prepared for the next time.

[QUOTE="407370, post: 3594986, member: 161181"
Gary I have a lot of respect for a lot of what you write in this forum but in this case you could not be more wrong.
The guy was at at event for ex military servicemen, that in itself is enough reason to avoid police involvement. The guy needs treatment not incarceration.
If he was suffering from diabetes at his blood sugar was at either extreme he would display aggression, not because he is aggressive but because of a bio chemical reaction, is a policeman going to help?????
If he was suffering from PTSD or similar then he needed to speak to a trained medical technician  to carry out an assessment on mental stability and if required be admitted to an appropriate facility to have his meds reviewed, would a policeman help with this????[/QUOTE]

*YES.  did it for over 33 years.  Committals for mental instability be they voluntary or involuntary are common with LEO.  Samething with medical issues.  Everyone is making assumptions that this is a case of PTSD.  Who says it is?  This is the exact kind of situation where calling the police would be most appropriate.  If you call EMS for this kind of violent situation, they are not going to act with out LEO there.  *

[/QUOTE]As  a rule mental instability and law enforcement should be kept apart as one is no good to the other. I will not post individual links to horror stories of psychiatric patients treatment by police but please read this use of police force against people with psychiatric disabilities - Center for Public Representation[/QUOTE]

*Remind your local LEO's of that the next time someone picks up a gun, a knife or other weapon and goes on a spree so they can let you handle it.  *

*Tell me, buy walking away from the situation, what have you done to improve it?  Has the person gained the help needed or have they just been left alone to perpetuate their actions and allow that aggression to grow?*

*Court committals for mental issues are not uncommon when needed.  Problem is, no one wants to get involved in the preventative aspect, they just want to complain after the problem reached the critical stage.  Telling me after the fact that "he's been off his meds for a couple of months" really doesn't help at that point now does it.   Where was that information a couple of months earlier to his treatment givers.  People don't want to get involved, things will work out okay in the end.   *

*There are the few that to decide that getting involved is more important than hurting the persons feelings and do go to court, do file for committals and do get the help that is needed.  But for the vast majority it is easier to point a finger, wag a tongue, and tisk, tisk after the fact.


Iron, you handled it well.  Keep in mind you could have contacted LEO, made them aware of the situation and advised them of  your desire not to pursue any form of prosecution.  They could have handled it from there with no imminent threat of arrest.  At the least they could have documented the situation for further need if some sort of committal or forced  treatment was needed in the future.  *


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## jcdeboever (Feb 28, 2016)

That was an unfortunate event. We don't know if the guy was a combat vet, right? If he was, he might have had an experience in Nam with photographers. I mean, all that crazy stuff going on, and some photographer is snapping photo's of dead people right in front him comes to mind. Doesn't make it right for what he did but that situation comes to my mind. I seen a documentary on war photography and filming that went on there. There was one angle of opinion that it had a huge impact on negative attitudes back home.  One guy (Vietnam) interviewed was real resentful with the enlisted and civilian media. 

You handled it very well.


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## Gary A. (Feb 28, 2016)

jcdeboever said:


> That was an unfortunate event. We don't know if the guy was a combat vet, right? If he was, he might have had an experience in Nam with photographers. I mean, all that crazy stuff going on, and some photographer is snapping photo's of dead people right in front him comes to mind. Doesn't make it right for what he did but that situation comes to my mind. I seen a documentary on war photography and filming that went on there. There was one angle of opinion that it had a huge impact on negative attitudes back home.  One guy (Vietnam) interviewed was real resentful with the enlisted and civilian media.
> 
> You handled it very well.



It isn't easy on the photog as well.


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## tirediron (Feb 28, 2016)

Great discussion!  Just to be clear, the chap who gave me the free coffee was not in any way part of the event and I don't think he was a veteran either ('though I can't say for certain).


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## robbins.photo (Feb 28, 2016)

tirediron said:


> I was shooting the annual Wounded Warrior BC Vancouver Island fund-raising run today and we started out in a local coffee shop which is a major sponsor.  As I always do when the team is milling around before the start, I get a few shots of them in the shop, especially when they're talking to the staff as the owners love to post this sort of thing on social media.  Anyway...
> 
> I'm just wandering around, shooting here and there (maybe 10-15 frames total, not much) and I see a group of the runners talking to a couple of the servers at the back of the room, so I up-camera and shoot.  All seems perfectly normal, and as I move back toward the door to get a wide shot, I see this fellow walking toward me.  I assume he's either going to leave, or get something from the "fixin's bar" ride beside me.
> 
> Nope, he walks right up to me, as in about 6" away (as I'm trying to get out of his way and not miss my shot) and throws his coffee (the big mug of course!) all over me and my camera, calls me some names not fit for a 'G' rated forum, and walks out.  I'm always aware of people who don't seem to want their picture taken and take great pains to respect that; I'd not even noticed this fellow before.  It all wiped up easily, and on the bright side, I've got the only cinnamon scented Nikon in town, but... WTF?????



Maybe he mistook you for Steven Seagal.  Lord knows I've wanted to do that to him several times after being subjected to his "acting".  Lol


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## Gary A. (Feb 28, 2016)

I can definitely see a resemblance.


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## table1349 (Feb 28, 2016)

robbins.photo said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> > I was shooting the annual Wounded Warrior BC Vancouver Island fund-raising run today and we started out in a local coffee shop which is a major sponsor.  As I always do when the team is milling around before the start, I get a few shots of them in the shop, especially when they're talking to the staff as the owners love to post this sort of thing on social media.  Anyway...
> ...


HaHaHa... I feel the same way about George Lucas for allowing the latest edition of the Star Wars saga to be put out.


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## The_Traveler (Feb 28, 2016)

If he wasn't part of the Wounded Warrior Event, I would have called police.


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## tirediron (Feb 28, 2016)

The_Traveler said:


> If he wasn't part of the Wounded Warrior Event, I would have called police.


I can't see calling the police over something like that.  To me, that falls into either the 'sort it out yourself' or 'ignore it' category, and given the nature of the event, I did NOT want to be the cause of a scene.


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## tanolam (Mar 1, 2016)

I've got this a lot when I do street photography. People can simply just ask you to delete their pictures if they don't like it. 
There is really no need to be rude so I think what he did was very inappropriate. You should have called the authority though.


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## tirediron (Mar 1, 2016)

tanolam said:


> I've got this a lot when I do street photography. People can simply just ask you to delete their pictures if they don't like it.
> There is really no need to be rude so I think what he did was very inappropriate. You should have called the authority though.


He could have asked; as it turns out when I looked at them, I wouldn't have.  I did crop him out of the ones I used however.


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## waday (Mar 1, 2016)

tirediron said:


> The_Traveler said:
> 
> 
> > If he wasn't part of the Wounded Warrior Event, I would have called police.
> ...


I understand given your situation, your equipment, and your awesome temperament, you did not want to cause a scene.

Would you say (or have done) the same thing if your camera was not coffeeproof?


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## KmH (Mar 1, 2016)

480sparky said:


> If it were me, I'd have him charged with assault.


+50


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## pixmedic (Mar 1, 2016)

tirediron said:


> The_Traveler said:
> 
> 
> > If he wasn't part of the Wounded Warrior Event, I would have called police.
> ...



you must be British Canadian and not French Canadian.


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## pixmedic (Mar 1, 2016)

KmH said:


> 480sparky said:
> 
> 
> > If it were me, I'd have him charged with assault.
> ...



+52


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## robbins.photo (Mar 1, 2016)

pixmedic said:


> you must be British Canadian and not French Canadian.



Whereas Seagal would have yammered on about how fighting was against his religion, being a Buddhist and all, and then inexplicably taken out a credit card and slashed the guy's carotid artery open with it a few seconds later.

And still, somehow, not a single Oscar.  Wow.  The inhumanity of it all.. lol


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## xenskhe (Mar 1, 2016)

John, there's a dwarf-throwing fundraiser happening on the 8th at the Anger Management Clinic. Can you attend?


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## tirediron (Mar 2, 2016)

waday said:


> I understand given your situation, your equipment, and your awesome temperament, you did not want to cause a scene.
> Would you say (or have done) the same thing if your camera was not coffeeproof?


I think in that case I would have been a little more concerned, definitely.


pixmedic said:


> you must be British Canadian and not French Canadian.


Matter of fact!



robbins.photo said:


> Whereas Seagal would have yammered on about how fighting was against his religion, being a Buddhist and all, and then inexplicably taken out a credit card and slashed the guy's carotid artery open with it a few seconds later.
> 
> And still, somehow, not a single Oscar.  Wow.  The inhumanity of it all.. lol


Life just isn't fair!



xenskhe said:


> John, there's a dwarf-throwing fundraiser happening on the 8th at the Anger Management Clinic. Can you attend?


That has possibilities!


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