# Dealing with People



## Jeatley (May 16, 2012)

Ok here is the deal. I have been shooting for almost 10 years and in the last 3 I have been slowly and steadily trying to build a business. My name is getting around and things are looking great. About once every two weeks I get a message like this. 

"Hey Jeff, I see you are a photographer and was wondering If you could help me with something? I just bought a Nikon 5100 and when on auto mode outside the flash will not come on however I find that it is needed outside fairly often in certain shades or even with the sun, sometimes my subjects face will come out dark. I've looked through the Manual and played with the camera but I'm not sure what to do. Any help or tips would be greatly appreciated, thanks!!"

They are all asking for help. This is a woman I went to high school with but even then we were not even friends. It is not that I mind them asking and it is a great complement. 

I would just love to know how others handle this situation. I have offered to do a class with either 1 person or 3 at the most. I offered it to a couple people and the questions stop. no one is interested in paying for lessons or my knowledge. Not like I know it all but I can teach all the basics. I would love to do it but can't afford to do it for free. What do you think?


As I was typing this I received another msg  


"I absolutely love your work !!! Did you go to school for photography? Wow, I wish when I finish school that my work is half as good as yours. I use a Canon Rebel XS with interchangeable lenses. I enrolled at UL in continuing education classes in every class that they have because I just love taking pictures. Could you give me some pointers if you don't mind? I really want to start a business after I'm done with school. Thanks so much.... Oh, by the way, Brandon is my sister's son."


----------



## 12sndsgood (May 16, 2012)

Maybe put something on your site saying due to the large volume of emails your receiving that you felt that the need was there for a class on the basics, and then spell out a class with price and when anyone sends you an email reply with a link to your classes?  It doesnt look like these people would be client's so I wouldn't see it as you losing customers. though I could be wrong.


----------



## imagemaker46 (May 16, 2012)

It's a tough call, you don't want to put these people off, word can get around if you're rude to them.  If you have the time, maybe a quick answer back, a thank you for compliments, but keep the message brief. I like the class idea that 12sndgood mentioned, if you feel confident in helping out some people, it would be a good way to help generate some future business, or just make a few friends, can never have too many of those.  Good luck with it.


----------



## Derrel (May 16, 2012)

imagemaker46 said:


> It's a tough call, you don't want to put these people off, word can get around if you're rude to them.  If you have the time, maybe a quick answer back, a thank you for compliments, but keep the message brief. I like the class idea that 12sndgood mentioned, if you feel confident in helping out some people, it would be a good way to help generate some future business, or just make a few friends, can never have too many of those.  Good luck with it.



Excellent comments imagemaker46.

It never hurts to help out. Good will and a favorable impression are very valuable things to build up. Providing an answer, or even providing a link to a web page that deals with the problem, reinforces the impression that _YOU ARE THE EXPERT_. You help a person out, and you build a positive impression. When somebody says, "You know, I got this new Nikon and couldn't figure out how to ___________, but I e-mailed Jeff and he knew exactly how to fix it," that's a good thing. Like strawberries and asparagus....you plant the crop..and it's not ready for quite a looooong time...but one day it is!


----------



## rub (May 16, 2012)

When people message be looking for a quick tip or solution to a problem, I will give it to them, if I have it, or direct them to a site that may have the answer for them.  When people approach me and want tips on more in depth things, or with any type of business questions I usually invite them out for coffee.  That way I get to know a bit about the up and comers (often they are going to be starting their "business" soon) and I tell them a few tips or tricks, or I lend them a book or two.  Most times that gets me free coffee, a new friend, a free assistant for a couple shoot and some good will. 

As much as this is a business, in this town I really try to bring the photographers TOGETHER so we can work together and support each other.


----------



## Jeatley (May 16, 2012)

I love all the answers...   This is how I wish all photographers were.  Willing to help.  In this town, the so said EXPERTS won't talk to you.  I have moved along with almost no local help.  When photographers find out that I am a photographer too they shut down.   Everything is trade secrets, even to the shoes they wear.  There is a long story to that comment.  

I am going to offer the basic class again and see if they are interested.  I still plan to answer the questions!  I have answered all of them before from many others.  

My Wife tends to think I answer too much I guess.  

One other question.  I did have a potential client call me about 5 times over a 6 month period trying to set up a session.  It always came down to "I will come by your shop and pay the deposit."  Well she never did and always face booked me or called me later to say why she could not make it.  Well after 5 attempts to book the session she stopped calling.  Christmas last year came and I noticed on Facebook she posted she got a new camera.  Then the call came in about 3 weeks later, "Can we go shoot some time and you can teach me to shoot as good as you?"   I grit my teeth and offered her the same basic class and she said... OH I thought we could just go play around.     WOW THAT ONE BUGGED ME.

What would ya'll have done with that one? 
Could I have handled her any better? Different?


----------



## 12sndsgood (May 16, 2012)

If you want to help out which is great, Maybe look at offering up a low cost and then mention that  X amount  will be given to a local charity. this will give people more initiative to come out to a class. it gets you helping people out and it helps out a charity. The first class I took was this way and it gave me more desire to go just to help out a cause. This gives you a chance to network with those that are trying to learn or come up. It puts you in a place that others in your area are not in. I know myself personally if someone came to me with a job, and it is something I dont feel qualified to do, or are a bit uncomfortable doing I would pass it on to someone I know who had those qualities. Granted other people may not do that but that's just me.


----------



## imagemaker46 (May 16, 2012)

I know a lot of photographers around the world, and some tend to be pretty moody a lot of the time, I'm one on occation, and some days on this forum it's obvious.  I try and share as much of my experience with the majority of people that ask.  There are few trade secrets, but some photographers like to keep what little knowledge they have as a way of appearing better than they really are.  I have little time for people that pretend to understand what it is like working as a photographer, especially the ones that start to lecture.  I have run into too many over the years.

As far as the potential client that kept calling and then pulled the "can you teach me how to do your job"  I would have said sure, I charge $50/hour when did you want to start. It's an honest offer, and puts the ball back in her court.  Either way, she shouldn't be offended.


----------



## c.cloudwalker (May 16, 2012)

What business are you in? Shooting or teaching?

I am a shooter and I see no reason to charge less then my hourly shooting rate to teach someone. So, even though I like this response best, I cannot agree with the amount.



imagemaker46 said:


> As far as the potential client that kept calling and then pulled the "can you teach me how to do your job"  I would have said sure, I charge $50/hour when did you want to start. It's an honest offer, and puts the ball back in her court.  Either way, she shouldn't be offended.



Honestly, if you are shooting for $50 an hour, you are probably not making any money. Why would you want to teach at the same rate and still make no money...?


----------



## MReid (May 16, 2012)

I figure what goes round comes round.
When I get an inquiry for info, requested in a proper tone, I hand it our freely, it builds good will and doesn't cost me a thing for a few minutes of my time.
I am sure most of the help I provide is beyond the grasp of the people asking for it and goes in one eye and out the other, but still I offer it.

When I was starting out I asked a lot of people for info, and some gave it freely some never responded. I am very thankful for those that shared.


----------



## IByte (May 16, 2012)

c.cloudwalker said:
			
		

> What business are you in? Shooting or teaching?
> 
> I am a shooter and I see no reason to charge less then my hourly shooting rate to teach someone. So, even though I like this response best, I cannot agree with the amount.
> 
> Honestly, if you are shooting for $50 an hour, you are probably not making any money. Why would you want to teach at the same rate and still make no money...?



You could bulk up the sessions to help them with the triangle for a total of $125.00 3 classes one hour each.  That should put a damper on the moochers.


----------



## imagemaker46 (May 16, 2012)

c.cloudwalker said:


> What business are you in? Shooting or teaching?
> 
> I am a shooter and I see no reason to charge less then my hourly shooting rate to teach someone. So, even though I like this response best, I cannot agree with the amount.
> 
> ...



I just tossed out a figure, it's not what I would charge, but then how many of your average amateurs would be willing to drop $250 per hour?


----------



## Sw1tchFX (May 16, 2012)

Honestly, it would take about 10 minutes most to write up a response as to what's going on. I'd just throw out a general "try doing this" type of response. Doesn't take long, you don't blow them off, and you don't look like an ass either.


----------



## Chris R (May 16, 2012)

Maybe setup a website with a Q&A section of sorts? You could make videos answering questions or something. It could be a very good way to get your name out there more.


----------



## tirediron (May 17, 2012)

Send them a link to TPF!


----------



## bratkinson (May 17, 2012)

Fortunately, I don't think I'll ever have to field those kinds of questions about photography. 

On the other hand, I get them regarding PCs, software, upgrades, what-a-abouts, could you... etc. Over the years, I've become less and less 'available' except to my closest friends and co-workers. 

The suggestion Sw1tchFX made of giving them a 10-minute answer what I have done numerous times about computer questions. Sometimes, "I don't know" is an adequate response, as well. When they ask about their new Nikon settings and you've shot nothing but Canon for years, you really -don't- know what menu setting screens are necessary for white balance, for example (assuming they even KNOW what WB means!).

Questions like "why no flash on auto when outside on a sunny day?" can best be answered with a very brief description of the meter being 'fooled', etc. The trick is to put it into laymans terms and to keep it brief. 

It took me a long time, 40+ years ago, to understand what backlighting was, recognizing it, and how to handle it. I still fail to recognize it sometimes (I know...slow learner!) Over the phone, or, after the fact, online, I doubt anyone could be 'helped' with such a problem. So you risk having to spend hours explaining, or getting them even more 'lost'. 

Just 5-6 weeks ago, I was at church with my camera and tried to show in an impromptu 2 minute 'live lesson' to the teenage girl I sold my 30D to about backlighting. There was a perfect example of a posed picture I was going to take with their back to a wall of windows on a sunny day. I showed her what 'auto' would do, switching to Av, etc, and how to handle it. I think it all went right over her head. I guess that until she has a problem with it, it's not a problem. I'm not really sure she understands the triangle yet either. 

The downside is, after you've answered their first question, 30 seconds, or 2 weeks later, they have another, and another...or tell their friends that you're "available" for questions...

Another option would be to 'put them off' for a couple hours, or days, before answering. I've had to do exactly that when I was busy doing my post processing on a project and had an absolute deadline that had to be met. Be sure to let them you why you can't answer them just now, but will a little later when you have the time. Hopefully, by making them wait a bit, it won't be a problem anymore, or, they've found someone else to help them.

Lastly, be SURE to point them to TPF or other photography sites you frequent.  There's a wealth of information for rookies and people like me who still make rookie mistakes!


----------



## Jeatley (Jun 2, 2012)

Thanks guys.  This has helped me a lot!


----------



## Steve5D (Jun 2, 2012)

If someone contacts me asking for tips on how to use their Nikon, I say "Sorry, but I shoot Canon. I'm not at all familiar with Nikon stuff".

If they ask me for tips on how to use their Canon, I say "Sorry, but I shoot Nikon. I'm not at all familiar with Canon stuff"...


----------



## Jeatley (Jun 2, 2012)

Talk about "kiss"   LOL   Thanks!


----------



## Tony S (Jun 3, 2012)

Tirediron beat me to it, send them a link to TPF so you can answer their questions here.


----------



## Jeatley (Jun 8, 2012)

Tony S said:


> Tirediron beat me to it, send them a link to TPF so you can answer their questions here.


   My new Answer for everything!


----------



## DiskoJoe (Jun 8, 2012)

Jeatley said:


> Ok here is the deal. I have been shooting for almost 10 years and in the last 3 I have been slowly and steadily trying to build a business. My name is getting around and things are looking great. About once every two weeks I get a message like this.
> 
> "Hey Jeff, I see you are a photographer and was wondering If you could help me with something? I just bought a Nikon 5100 and when on auto mode outside the flash will not come on however I find that it is needed outside fairly often in certain shades or even with the sun, sometimes my subjects face will come out dark. I've looked through the Manual and played with the camera but I'm not sure what to do. Any help or tips would be greatly appreciated, thanks!!"
> 
> ...



Just refer them to here.


----------



## DiskoJoe (Jun 8, 2012)

bratkinson said:


> Fortunately, I don't think I'll ever have to field those kinds of questions about photography.
> 
> On the other hand, I get them regarding PCs, software, upgrades, what-a-abouts, could you... etc. Over the years, I've become less and less 'available' except to my closest friends and co-workers.
> 
> ...



Solution for problem one = Bleeping Computer - Computer Help and Discussion


----------



## ISO (Jun 8, 2012)

Whenever I'm shooting something and look like I know what I'm doing I get people asking for help... I just help them, but I've been thinking of opening a crash course.


----------



## CMfromIL (Jun 8, 2012)

Why reinvent the wheel each time you get this type of request?  Here's my suggestion.  Come up with a 'Top Ten' list, or something similar for novice shooters.  List the very basic info for the most common questions you get.  Then everytime you get the request/quetion you simply reply with the attached sheet.

Then come up with a very basic photography class.  When I bought my camera, I took my daughter to a class.  It was $30/person and lasted 1 hour.  There were about 9 people at it.

It was quite helpful.  Went over the basic tenets of shooting (ISO/F-Stop/Aperature).  It was very helpful and appreciated.  The photographer also had some classes that dealt with sports shooting (at the local college), nature shoots (at a park) and some others.  All were around $30/hour with a max size of 10.

Good luck.


----------



## manaheim (Jun 8, 2012)

Holy crap, this thread is BRILLIANT.

I'm sort of in brat's shoes... I'm an IT guy, too, and I get alllllllllll kinds of requests for help, and often times from folks who _really_ don't understand how much they are asking of me, how much knowledge and experience goes into what I do to help, and who sometimes get SUPER pissy with me if things don't go well ... even when it's totally out of my control, and even when I've warned them that things could go this way.  Sometimes people that I help (successfully or otherwise) talk to others and tell them how I "really didn't know all that much about what I was doing after all", or... worse... they tell them how great I am and suggest that they call me.

I don't think that people are fundamentally evil or anything, I just think they don't truly get it.  It's "just a computer" or "just a big camera".  Unfortunately ignorance doesn't change the end result... a drowning man is just as likely to swamp your dinghy, regardless of whether or not he appreciates your boating skills. 

I REALLY like some of the ideas from imagemaker, 12andgood and rub... but I find myself wondering how deep that rabbit hole goes.

I personally try to be a little slow to respond and give about as much effort in my response as the person put into their research before they asked.  If it's clear to me that the person has been digging into it and is just stuck, I'll make the effort to help them bridge that final gap. (usually that's pretty easy at that point)  If it's one of these "Wow I wanna get a big camera like you so I can take great pictures" types, I wait about a week to respond and then give them a sentence or two at a high level and a link to a resource on line that they can read.

In short, I don't turn them away... but I also make pretty sure that they don't consider me their FIRST stop whenever they get stuck and don't feel like using a manual... or google.

The one modifier is the closer I am to the person, the more time I'll spend on it and the faster I'll get back to them.  Though, over time this has basically condensed down to a few very close friends and my immediate family and wife's immediate family.

I dunno... doing much more than that always seems to just bite me in the ass, and... like brat... after spending 30+ years as the kid/teenager/young adult/man who "is a whiz with computers", I've had what is very likely a disproportionately high amount of experience and abuse with this kind of situation.


----------



## Jeatley (Jun 9, 2012)

I did take a close friend out once.  The first hour he was asking a bunch of questions that were way to big and complicated for what he understood.  So 1st hour I gave him these huge answers with all the little details.   then the second hour I told him to for get everything and we would go shoot. OH AND NO MORE QUESTIONS unless it was on the topic we were talking about at that moment. Each area we shot for about 10 to 15 minutes and I explained Shutter Speed, then aperture then ISO  and finally DOF.  That was it for 1 hour.  We went eat and then went shoot again for another 1 hour and told him to put it back on automatic and just compose....    The guy was so happy and now loves the camera he was about to sell.  His normal family shots are so much better now.  He loves it.  But he never wants to shoot for more than fun.  
He had to call me a few times but his questions were much simpler and focused


----------



## NE-KID (Jun 12, 2012)

Derrel said:


> imagemaker46 said:
> 
> 
> > It's a tough call, you don't want to put these people off, word can get around if you're rude to them.  If you have the time, maybe a quick answer back, a thank you for compliments, but keep the message brief. I like the class idea that 12sndgood mentioned, if you feel confident in helping out some people, it would be a good way to help generate some future business, or just make a few friends, can never have too many of those.  Good luck with it.
> ...



I agree with the both of them...Why be rude to someone when they are only asking simple questions their just trying to learn the camera/photography taking scene. We were all new at one time or another when someone ask me a question about my camera, sd card, lens, speedlight flash, or whatever they ask me about I always take time and answer them. If someone ask a question why ignore this person? I never got the point of it.


----------

