# Manual vs Automatic



## redbourn (Aug 21, 2016)

Lots of people have been patiently pushing me to get better and better.

And I appreciate it.

Took a big step today and finally changed the dial on my camera to 'manual' for the first time!

Chose a very simple setup and chose 'default' in PS when I combined the images.

Comments?

Thank you,

Michael

P.S. Didn't use manual focus; one step at a time ;-)


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## Ysarex (Aug 21, 2016)

What's the point of switching the camera into manual? What did you do in taking the photo that made using manual necessary? What did manual mode provide that you couldn't achieve using the camera in auto?

Joe


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## john.margetts (Aug 21, 2016)

Changed it to Manual from where?

Having learnt my photography with a manual camera (it is all there was back then) I never use manual now. Even in challenging situations, there are easier ways to work. Knowing how to meter in an automatic mode will be a greater advantage.


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## 480sparky (Aug 21, 2016)

What advantage is there to shooting this in manual?  Did you not like the settings the camera chose?


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## redbourn (Aug 21, 2016)

Ysarex said:


> What's the point of switching the camera into manual? What did you do in taking the photo that made using manual necessary? What did manual mode provide that you couldn't achieve using the camera in auto?
> 
> Joe



The manual photo is much much better !


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## redbourn (Aug 21, 2016)

john.margetts said:


> Changed it to Manual from where?
> 
> Having learnt my photography with a manual camera (it is all there was back then) I never use manual now. Even in challenging situations, there are easier ways to work. Knowing how to meter in an automatic mode will be a greater advantage.



Which photo looks better?


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## john.margetts (Aug 21, 2016)

redbourn said:


> john.margetts said:
> 
> 
> > Changed it to Manual from where?
> ...


Not the issue. You either 1) used the camera's meter and then made a slight adjustment which could be easily done using exposure compensation or 2) guessed without the meter in which case you will have had to take a lot of shots to get it right.

Using the meter properly in automatic is both easier and gives consistently better results. The advantage to using automatic exposure with exposure compensation is that you make one adjustment to compensate for subject/lighting and then concentrate on the composition and timing.


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## Ysarex (Aug 21, 2016)

redbourn said:


> Ysarex said:
> 
> 
> > What's the point of switching the camera into manual? What did you do in taking the photo that made using manual necessary? What did manual mode provide that you couldn't achieve using the camera in auto?
> ...



Why? How did having the camera in manual account for the difference? What do the raw files look like?

Joe


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## 480sparky (Aug 21, 2016)

john.margetts said:


> ..........Using the meter properly in automatic is both easier and gives consistently better results. ...........



Not always.  The camera may say ISO 400, 1/250 at f/5.6.  And that's based solely on the algorithm built in to the camera by some nameless engineer in some far-flung country who doesn't really care how my images look, just that they're exposed 'correctly'.

I, however, as an artist, want to use ISO 200, 1/30 at f/11 because it far better suits my needs in terms of how I want the image to be recorded.  Exposure compensation just ain't gonna do that.  I haven't changed the exposure, both of them will be technically equal.  But the results will be vastly different.


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## redbourn (Aug 21, 2016)

5 Reasons to Shoot in Manual Mode | Click it Up a Notch

There are posts all over the Internet about the advantages of using manual mode.

One that I read, and I don't remember the detail is that auto mode gets fooled by the grays.


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## john.margetts (Aug 21, 2016)

There are also posts all over the Internet about the advantages of not using manual. Being on the internet doesn't make it right or sensible.


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## redbourn (Aug 21, 2016)

Ysarex said:


> redbourn said:
> 
> 
> > Ysarex said:
> ...



Using a meter I was able to measure the light on what I considered the most important part of the photo.

I've had problems with my food photos because to show the food correctly I had to blow out other parts of the photo.

I didn't make corrections to the two photos.

Normally I've been shooting the same shot at a dozen different apertures which is bad for food photos because the food cools etc.

Using manual I will only have to shoot at most three photos.

Michael


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## john.margetts (Aug 21, 2016)

redbourn said:


> Ysarex said:
> 
> 
> > redbourn said:
> ...


In other words, you improved by addressing the metering, not by using manual.


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## 480sparky (Aug 21, 2016)

john.margetts said:


> ......... Being on the internet doesn't make it right or sensible.



And that applies to _you_ as well.


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## john.margetts (Aug 21, 2016)

480sparky said:


> john.margetts said:
> 
> 
> > ........l. Being on the internet doesn't make it right or sensible.
> ...


It most certainly does. I prefer people to read/listen critically.


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## 480sparky (Aug 21, 2016)

john.margetts said:


> 480sparky said:
> 
> 
> > john.margetts said:
> ...



Therefore, just because _you_ don't shoot in manual doesn't mean anyone else should.  Keep in mind, entire generations of photographers have lived and died before the advent of Auto.

Shooting in manual is not 'the' end goal of using a camera.  Knowing how to, and _when_ to, is 'a' goal.  If you're happy with your results using the Magic Green A, then by all means continue using it.  But don't diss anyone who thinks outside of your box and want to learn.


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## Ysarex (Aug 21, 2016)

redbourn said:


> Ysarex said:
> 
> 
> > redbourn said:
> ...



That's not a manual versus auto issue. Did you use a separate hand-held meter?



redbourn said:


> I've had problems with my food photos because to show the food correctly I had to blow out other parts of the photo.



That's a lighting issue that can't be improved by switching the camera to manual.

Joe



redbourn said:


> I didn't make corrections to the two photos.
> 
> Normally I've been shooting the same shot at a dozen different apertures which is bad for food photos because the food cools etc.
> 
> ...


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## redbourn (Aug 21, 2016)

john.margetts said:


> There are also posts all over the Internet about the advantages of not using manual. Being on the internet doesn't make it right or sensible.



Several people here suggested manual and I finally tried it.

I got a lot of post from people asking me why I don't listen to advice.

I listened to advice and like the result.

Manual seems very good for food because it's a static shot under very controlled conditions.

Michael


480sparky said:


> john.margetts said:
> 
> 
> > ......... Being on the internet doesn't make it right or sensible.
> ...



A rather unfriendly post. Why the attack mode?

I tried a technique that was suggested to me maybe a dozen times here.

Tried it and I like the result.

You presumably like the manual photo better?

Why is it better and how could I have got the same result use A - aperture or whatever?

Please explain and I will try it.

Michael


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## 480sparky (Aug 21, 2016)

redbourn said:


> .........A rather unfriendly post. Why the attack mode?.........



It's not 'attack mode'.  Merely stating a fact.



redbourn said:


> .....I tried a technique that was suggested to me maybe a dozen times here.
> 
> Tried it and I like the result.
> 
> You presumably like the manual photo better?.........



I really can't see any difference.



redbourn said:


> .......Why is it better and how could I have got the same result use A - aperture or whatever?
> 
> Please explain and I will try it.
> 
> Michael



It's really not relevant which mode you use, as long as you get the results you want.  If Auto, P, S (Tv), A (Av) or M is what is needed to produce the desired results, then use the one best suited for the subject.


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## redbourn (Aug 21, 2016)

480sparky said:


> redbourn said:
> 
> 
> > .........A rather unfriendly post. Why the attack mode?.........
> ...



Thanks. 

I'm not and wasn't suggesting that everyone should suddenly switch to manual mode.

Some people on the forum told me to try it and I was posting to say that I did and showed the result.

Manual mode may help my food photos.

Michael


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## SCraig (Aug 21, 2016)

redbourn said:


> 5 Reasons to Shoot in Manual Mode | Click it Up a Notch
> 
> There are posts all over the Internet about the advantages of using manual mode.
> 
> One that I read, and I don't remember the detail is that auto mode gets fooled by the grays.


Those 5 reasons are absolutely ridiculous.  They make no sense whatsoever because most of what the author claims is a benefit of shooting in manual mode is nothing more than a benefit of knowing how to use a camera properly.

There is one, and only one reason, to shoot in manual mode and that is when you want to override the metering settings and have full control of both the shutter and aperture.  If all you do is switch the mode switch to Manual and then center the metering needle then you are still shooting in automatic mode, just adding another step to the operation.

I also learned by using manual mode because that was all we had 50 years ago.  These days I'm more than happy to allow my cameras to make some of the decisions for me.  There are conditions where I do want to control all the settings, and when that happens I still use manual mode, but the majority of the time I'm using aperture or shutter priority automatic.


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## Ysarex (Aug 21, 2016)

redbourn said:


> Some people on the forum told me to try it and I was posting to say that I did and showed the result.
> 
> Manual mode may help my food photos.
> 
> Michael



How might it help is the question. What are you getting from manual mode that's substantively different than using an auto mode? The various modes (full auto, P, A, S, M, etc.) are different ways to work with the camera to set exposure parameters. How is using manual creating a difference for you in this regard that matters?

Joe


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## Ysarex (Aug 21, 2016)

SCraig said:


> redbourn said:
> 
> 
> > 5 Reasons to Shoot in Manual Mode | Click it Up a Notch
> ...



I hadn't looked at that article until you posted this response. YIKES! That is beyond atrocious.

"How to go from snapshots to lifestyle photography in 30 days."

Joe


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## Gary A. (Aug 21, 2016)

As stated before, it is not a manual/auto difference ... It is not a metering difference ... The difference between the two shots is skill and experience.  Any seasoned photog can easily adjust the camera to reflect either image in either mode.  If you are a neophyte as to how a meter works ... Then any well exposed shot is as much a matter of luck as it is skill.  Modern, in-camera, Martix/Evaluative modes are designed to minimize and close that gap between the unskilled operator and the well exposed image.  Dependent upon your meter mode, (Spot, Average, Matrix, Evaluative, Center-Weight, et al), and what you are metering off of, your values and captured images will be different, in some cases significantly different.  To be honest, I think it was a flip of a coin as to which image turned out better.

I suggest:

1) Read a book on metering; and
2) Keep shooting in Manual for a bit.

I think, Manual will allow you to connect how a meter works to the three settings effecting exposure - in the simplest and most direct manner.  Manual will give you a solid foundation for which all the auto modes and EV Comp are based. Once you've mastered the two M's, Manual and Metering ... You are a photographer.*.  Mastering the two M's will give you the skills needed to tackle all lighting situations knowing that if there is a proper exposure solution available that you will most likely find that solution.  Manual, will set a solid foundation for the Auto modes, allowing you to pick a mode that best fits the situation/circumstance/environment.


* I am not saying that Only 'Manual' qualifies you as a photographer, or that using an Auto mode makes you less of a photographer, et cetera. There are many qualifiers in photography and knowing Manual is one of many.


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## astroNikon (Aug 21, 2016)

Ysarex said:


> SCraig said:
> 
> 
> > redbourn said:
> ...


Agree.  That article is just wrong in it's "reasons"

I shoot in manual to control my Aperture, Shutter, Metering Mode, Focus Mode et all
I don't like the selections that the camera uses most of the time.  So rather than not like the selections most of the time I use Manual so that I can like the selections most of the time.  
And if you shoot in a studio type environment, I can't see how using a program mode helps when you have controlled lighting.


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## smoke665 (Aug 21, 2016)

Actually shooting in manual for a bit isn't a bad idea. Just make sure to go into your camera menu and turn off all the default settings. Limiting your exposure to the basic triangle will let you learn without the camera trying to guess what "it" thinks you want.


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## HughGuessWho (Aug 21, 2016)

What's strange is if you look back about a year or 2 ago on this forum, many of the talking heads were preaching that if you DIDN'T shoot in manual, you were useless as a photographer.


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## fmw (Aug 21, 2016)

OP, you can get the same exposure value in virtually any metering mode.   My favorite mode is P or program mode because it sets an exposure value and then lets me spin the wheel to choose the combination of shutter and aperture to get the effect I want.  Any of them will provide the same exposure.

Shutter speed controls motion blur, aperture controls depth of field and ISO controls digital noise.  There isn't a universally ideal combination of shutter and aperture so I don't use the auto mode.  Program is faster for me than manual.  

Since you are using a tripod you don't need to worry about motion blur so aperture priority would be a good choice for you as well as program mode.  You do need to be involved with controlling depth of field for your subjects.


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## petrochemist (Aug 21, 2016)

There are occasions when manual is definitely better than any of the auto modes:
If loads of different subjects of widely varying average tones are being shot in hyper controlled situations (including food shots if the lighting is totally controlled). 
Or in situations where the lighting is beyond the range of the camera's meter (typically star shots and the like).
Or where mixed lighting ambient & flash is being used...

In addition it can be a rewarding exercise to try as a challenge. 

On the whole the semi auto modes work perfectly well, (you use exposure compensation when the subject is not expected to average 18% grey). 

My first proper camera (Pentax ME) had no direct control of shutter speed just ISO, Aperture & EC. 
Whilst I was jealous of my brother 'super' model that added shutter speed control, I never found a situation where I couldn't rapidly get the settings I wanted.

I tend to find that all those that think there is only one way of shooting (manual, Av, Sv, RAW, JPEG...)  shoot a limited range of subjects. Each has its advantages & limitations but most of the time any of them can be made to work!


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## dxqcanada (Aug 21, 2016)

HughGuessWho said:


> What's strange is if you look back about a year or 2 ago on this forum, many of the talking heads were preaching that if you DIDN'T shoot in manual, you were useless as a photographer.



Real photographers only use camera's with a big M ... that's why I need a Leica


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## dennybeall (Aug 21, 2016)

I often walk by the shelf and stroke my Nikon "F" just so I can remember what it was like shooting only in Manual.
Nobody mentioned the marked change in White Balance from one shot to the other. The background color is very different.


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## zombiesniper (Aug 21, 2016)

HughGuessWho said:


> What's strange is if you look back about a year or 2 ago on this forum, many of the talking heads were preaching that if you DIDN'T shoot in manual, you were useless as a photographer.



You don't have to go back that far.

I find it curious that most of the time people encourage getting out of the auto settings and when the OP does this he is immediately met with what appeared to be aggressive posts.
Now this is only text and maybe the posts weren't meant to be that way, so I'll give the benefit of the doubt and say it was my perception.

To the OP I did like the photo on the right a bit better. Whether  you were shooting manual to give you the opportunity to get the control you want or a tool to learn more about how your camera functions. I think it was probably an exercise that you learned a little something and who am I to judge why. I should just be happy that you made the leap.
Well done.


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## Braineack (Aug 23, 2016)

redbourn said:


> Took a big step today and finally changed the dial on my camera to 'manual' for the first time!
> 
> Chose a very simple setup and chose 'default' in PS when I combined the images.
> 
> ...



Auto modes get to the same result faster -- it's all dependent on the light meter.

It looks like you simply told your camera to underexpose slightly and forced settings. The same thing would have been achieved if you dialed in a little EV-.

The biggest thing I notice between the two is the WB.


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## Rick50 (Aug 23, 2016)

I get this question every time I buy a car. I have chosen auto for many years now because it's easier. Might be that way with camera's too.


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## 480sparky (Aug 23, 2016)

Rick50 said:


> I get this question every time I buy a car. I have chosen auto for many years now because it's easier. Might be that way with camera's too.



Kewl.  Your cars know then you want to go forward and when you want to go backwards?  How awesome is _that_?!?!?!


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## john.margetts (Aug 23, 2016)

Cars are a good example. Cannot imagine anyone wanting to drive a car with manual advance/retard (doubt many drivers even know what that means). Or with a constant mesh gearbox. Brakes with no ABS or even without servo assistance. Direct steering with no power assist? Cranking the engine to start it - and not forgetting to adjust the advance/retard first or you will break your wrist or worse.

I learnt to drive with all those things and it was awful.


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## Braineack (Aug 23, 2016)

no torque vectoring, no care


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## TamingRoman (Aug 24, 2016)

I can't believe there is even a discussion on this.  Manual all the way.  You are smarter than your camera's auto functions.  BTW, there is so much more texture and lighting in your manual version.  Shoot manual and you will never shoot any other way.


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## 480sparky (Aug 24, 2016)

TamingRoman said:


> .... BTW, there is so much more texture and lighting in your manual version. ...........



I can't wait to hear this one explained.


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## TamingRoman (Aug 24, 2016)

Where would you like me to start.  You have eyes.   Can you not see the difference?


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## Ysarex (Aug 24, 2016)

TamingRoman said:


> I can't believe there is even a discussion on this.  Manual all the way.  You are smarter than your camera's auto functions.  BTW, there is so much more texture and lighting in your manual version.  Shoot manual and you will never shoot any other way.



I'm smart enough to use my camera's auto functions and get the same result as I would using manual.

Joe


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## 480sparky (Aug 24, 2016)

TamingRoman said:


> Where would you like me to start.  You have eyes.   Can you not see the difference?



I have eyes.  But explain to me how shooting in manual somehow creates more texture and lighting.  Does the camera/lens magically get sharper when shooting ISO 200:f/5.6:1/250 when I set it there as opposed to the camera choosing ISO 200:f/5.6:1/250?  And where does all this magical light come from?


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## TamingRoman (Aug 24, 2016)

Well I can see this place hasn't changed much.   Personally, I like to manipulate my light.  I tend to like a richer texture.  To me, auto settings are flat.  Sorry, that's just the way I see it.  Some people have great luck with auto.  I just like a bit more control.


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## TamingRoman (Aug 24, 2016)

Hey guys, I'm an old photo dog.  I just came here to see what's going on these days, help if I can, and talk to fellow photo peeps.  I'm not trying to be in arguments.  The question was posed: Manual or Auto.  I gave my opinion.  Just because I have less than 10 posts does not mean I'm a noobie.  Just here to help if I can, and have fellowship.  OK?


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## 480sparky (Aug 24, 2016)

I'm not arguing about anything.  I just want an explanation of this magic.

Learn me sumpin'.


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## Ysarex (Aug 24, 2016)

TamingRoman said:


> Well I can see this place hasn't changed much.   Personally, I like to manipulate my light.  I tend to like a richer texture.  To me, auto settings are flat.  Sorry, that's just the way I see it.  Some people have great luck with auto.  I just like a bit more control.



Personally I insist on manipulating my exposures. I'm a stickler for precision and full control over every aspect of my photo. I use my camera's P(rogram) mode to achieve complete control. Do you not understand how your camera works?

Joe


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## TamingRoman (Aug 24, 2016)

Seriously guys.  How long have you been shooting?  I really don't want to argue.  I will put my photos where my mouth is.  Let people decide.  I don't feel like getting bullied today.  I was just here for fellowship.


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## Ysarex (Aug 24, 2016)

TamingRoman said:


> Seriously guys.  How long have you been shooting?  I really don't want to argue.  I will put my photos where my mouth is.  Let people decide.  I don't feel like getting bullied today.  I was just here for fellowship.



OK, fine. But you jumped in here and made a silly statement that shouldn't go unchallenged.

Long shooting-- me, about 45 years -- 38 years now with photo my only source of income.

So to achieve all the stuff you think you need to get by having your camera in M, I get from my camera in P.

Joe

and P.S. welcome to TPF


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## TamingRoman (Aug 24, 2016)

I'm happy for you Joe.  I also make my living in photography.  Have a nice day.  I do all kinds of photography.  From Photojournalism to Fashion.  None of it on (P)rofessional mode.  Different strokes man.

Just saw the welcome.  Thanks.  Nice to be around a grumpy bunch of photo hounds.  I mean that.


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## Braineack (Aug 24, 2016)

TamingRoman said:


> Where would you like me to start.  You have eyes.   Can you not see the difference?



can you help me out?  My eyes can't quite tell here.  One was shot in M, the other in A:


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## TamingRoman (Aug 24, 2016)

looks the same to me.  I'm guessing (P)rofessional mode because the white are blown.


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## Braineack (Aug 24, 2016)

That's cause they are the same.  I'm just as dumb as my camera.






and what would P mode have anything to do with blown white?

I spot metered on the white gauge on the power supply.  It would have turned out the same in P.

My histogram also disagrees that the whites are blown... I have to increase the EV +2.05 before there's any clipping.


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## SCraig (Aug 24, 2016)

TamingRoman said:


> Seriously guys.  How long have you been shooting?  I really don't want to argue.  I will put my photos where my mouth is.  Let people decide.  I don't feel like getting bullied today.  I was just here for fellowship.


Well, let's see ... 2016 - 1964 is what, 52 years?  And, yeah, I learned on a bunch of manual-only boxes to.  These days I'm more than happy to let my camera do some of the thinking for me.  Aperture priority, shutter priority, manual.  I use all three as the situation dictates.


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## TamingRoman (Aug 24, 2016)

OH my god, you guys win.  SHOOT P FOR PROFESSIONAL.  IT'S LOVELY!  SHOOT HOWEVER YOU WANT!  If it pays the bills, I'm in awe.


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## Braineack (Aug 24, 2016)

If it achieves the exact same exposure settings as M, only quicker, why not?

Some of us that know how to use our tools understand that.


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## TamingRoman (Aug 24, 2016)

I own about $50 grand in camera gear.  Tomorrow I might actually read the manuals.  SHOOT HOW YOU WANT.


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## Ysarex (Aug 24, 2016)

TamingRoman said:


> looks the same to me.  I'm guessing (P)rofessional mode because the white are blown.



Hmmmm? Why would you say the whites are blown when they're not?



 

Maybe you need some help from us (P)rofessionals.

Joe


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## TamingRoman (Aug 24, 2016)

Ok, I came here to encourage young up and comers, share some wisdom, and hang out and view the work of fellow photographers.  So far I've had several posts dedicated to mocking me.  Alrighty then.  I'm not here to say what is right or wrong.  I JUST GAVE MY OPINION.  Can you please please please get off my back.


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## TamingRoman (Aug 24, 2016)

Ok, done with this converstion.


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## Ysarex (Aug 24, 2016)

TamingRoman said:


> Ok, I came here to encourage young up and comers, share some wisdom, and hang out and view the work of fellow photographers.  So far I've had several posts dedicated to mocking me.  Alrighty then.  I'm not here to say what is right or wrong.  I JUST GAVE MY OPINION.  Can you please please please get off my back.



Again welcome to TPF.

And you're entitled to your opinions but you're going to get called out when you say something that's wrong or doesn't make sense. You just did that -- more than once. So we're good right. Welcome and by all means encourage the noobs and share some pointers.

Joe


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## 480sparky (Aug 24, 2016)

TamingRoman said:


> Seriously guys.  How long have you been shooting?  I really don't want to argue.  I will put my photos where my mouth is.  Let people decide.  I don't feel like getting bullied today.  I was just here for fellowship.



I first picked up a camera around 1965. Am I qualified to have a discussion with you?

And you did far more than "just gave your opinion". You basically stated your way is the only way and if we disagree we must be total noobs with 6 hours of experience.


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## TamingRoman (Aug 24, 2016)

We are good.


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## thereyougo! (Aug 24, 2016)

I tend to reman in Aperture priority and play with the Exposure compensation as and when I feel I want to.  There's always a certain amount of manual mode even in the semi automatic modes.  

Shoot how you feel you get the results you want.  Don't worry, I won't go into a hissy fit and start shouting by using Caps...


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## TamingRoman (Aug 24, 2016)

Very nice photos, SingerSnapper. Looks like you live in paradise!


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## Gary A. (Aug 24, 2016)

I shoot in manual.  I shoot manual because manual is what I am most comfortable shooting.  Sometimes, I will shoot in an auto mode, but usually not.  Manual is my preference and I am able to easily and consistency capture an image closer to my previsualized image in manual than in auto.  I am confident that a proficient auto shooter is able to capture a scene with the equal IQ as I in manual.

With all due respect Taming Roman, it is my opinion that if one's images in auto are not as good as one's manual images, then it is a matter of the operator not the camera. 

I, for one, would not want a photog with all your years of experience leave this forum.  I hope we can put the rough start behind us and participate we us on this forum.  Most of us on this forum are here to share and learn.


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## griffinwalsh (Aug 24, 2016)

I shoot manual, shutter priority, or aperture priority because I like having more control over the images I capture. If someone knows how to shoot manual, I don't get what the issue is with them shooting it?

All photographers are different, and one photographer may get good results on auto, and another might get good results on manual. As long as both photographers are happy with the results I see no issue?

That being said, I think it's very respectable that you tried manual mode. Trying new things and broadening your photography skills is a good thing for any photographer, regardless of how many years experience they have.


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## astroNikon (Aug 25, 2016)

Braineack said:


> TamingRoman said:
> 
> 
> > Where would you like me to start.  You have eyes.   Can you not see the difference?
> ...


my guess
top manual - colors are a tad more richer .. hoping you adjusted for that
bottom Auto


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## astroNikon (Aug 25, 2016)

I shoot in manual.  But I'm used to it.
I've never tried Program mode (tried Aperture and Shutter priorities), I've even used all the scene modes at one time.  One of these days I'll try Program mode ...


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## Gary A. (Aug 25, 2016)

I've never shot Program either.  It scares me.


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## thereyougo! (Aug 25, 2016)

I think after a while of shooting you get to know conditions and what settings you used before, and then start adapting them in Manual.  The advantage of digital is that you can gauge this from the histogram and the image on the LCD  screen, o in landscapes using the sunny 16 rule and adapting it...


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## dxqcanada (Aug 25, 2016)

I find that shooting with an EVF makes life much easier, WYSIWYG (Ok, not exact but pretty close) in manual exposure is a breeze ... but I still like to shoot in an auto/semi-auto mode as I am so lazy ... though I do dial in exposure comp when required ... I think coming from shooting with a fully manual Canon F-1n, I might as well take advantage of technology.


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## Deleted member 215987 (Aug 26, 2016)

Why all the questions from some asking "Why did you shoot in manual?". I think it's great that someone wants to learn something new!


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## BananaRepublic (Aug 26, 2016)

Why do people feel the need to lambast the OP for daring to attempt manual settings when an auto mode would have covered the situation, it was an exercise and it does not matter what the images are of. It sometimes is beyond me what goes on here.



john.margetts said:


> I never use manual now. Even in challenging situations, there are easier ways to work. Knowing how to meter in an automatic mode will be a greater advantage.



Try pointing the auto mode at the Moon and see how you get on.


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## Braineack (Aug 26, 2016)

I don't think anyone did...  The only people lambasted in here were those using P mode.


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## BananaRepublic (Aug 26, 2016)

P-easant mode!    I only read the first page and assumed that it reflected the other 5.


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## Ysarex (Aug 26, 2016)

riverrat373 said:


> Why all the questions from some asking "Why did you shoot in manual?". I think it's great that someone wants to learn something new!



I was the first to respond to the OP and I started to question why he was making that switch because I wanted to help. The OP had just worked through another thread in which he had trouble with a photo because of the way the photo was lit (something that a change in exposure or exposure mode won't help). I had hoped to help him think through the rationale for the mode switch and make sure that he was making the change for a valid reason. He's fairly new using a DSLR and can be swayed by idiots who make nonsense claims like "you need to learn manual mode to take control of the camera" or "shoot in manual so as not to let the camera decide for you." Unfortunately the thread devolved.

Joe


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## Braineack (Aug 26, 2016)

BananaRepublic said:


> P-easant mode!    I only read the first page and assumed that it reflected the other 5.



The points people were trying to make is that the shooting mode doesnt matter so long as you understand what your camera is doing and why, how to control it or how/when to take control.


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## 480sparky (Aug 26, 2016)

BananaRepublic said:


> P-easant mode!    I only read the first page and assumed that it reflected the other 5.



P is Perfeshunul Mode!


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## Braineack (Aug 27, 2016)

Braineack said:


> I don't think anyone did...  The only people lambasted in here were those using P mode.



@riverrat373   Why do you disagree with this?


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## Deleted member 215987 (Aug 27, 2016)

Huh?


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## Braineack (Aug 27, 2016)

riverrat373 said:


> Huh?








You disagreed here.  Why do you think the OP was criticized for using Manual?  I don't believe anyone here criticized him only trying M.  

I believe people in the thread were criticized for using (P)rofessional mode.


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## Deleted member 215987 (Aug 28, 2016)

Well, in my opinion, both Ysarex and 480Sparky's posts seem like they were critical of the poster. By the way, there is absolutely nothing wrong with using (P)rofessional mode.


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## Ysarex (Aug 28, 2016)

riverrat373 said:


> Well, in my opinion, both Ysarex and 480Sparky's posts seem like they were critical of the poster. By the way, there is absolutely nothing wrong with using (P)rofessional mode.



I never got to follow up with the OP before the thread devolved and the OP abandoned it. My goal was to be helpful. If the OP believed that switching from auto to manual without altering the lighting would provide an advantage ( and I suspect he was making this error) then he was confused. I had hoped to talk him through that.

Joe


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## Deleted member 215987 (Aug 28, 2016)

OK


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## 480sparky (Aug 28, 2016)

riverrat373 said:


> Well, in my opinion, both Ysarex and 480Sparky's posts seem like they were critical of the poster. By the way, there is absolutely nothing wrong with using (P)rofessional mode.



I wasn't _critical_ of the OP.... just wondering why the OP felt the image _needed _to be shot in manual.

What I was 'critical' about was the claim (*not* by the OP) that manual is 'the only way' to shoot, and somehow it provides 'more texture and light'.


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## HughGuessWho (Aug 28, 2016)

How about this statement...



480sparky said:


> Personally, I think it should be required that you learn to shoot in manual before you're given a license to use The Magic Green Auto.



From THIS thread?


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## 480sparky (Aug 28, 2016)

HughGuessWho said:


> How about this statement...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What about it?


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## Gary A. (Aug 28, 2016)

Says who?
The polls. 
Which polls?
All of them.


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## HughGuessWho (Aug 28, 2016)

480sparky said:


> HughGuessWho said:
> 
> 
> > How about this statement...
> ...



Just making the observation that the statement seems to contradict statements in this thread.


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## 480sparky (Aug 28, 2016)

HughGuessWho said:


> 480sparky said:
> 
> 
> > HughGuessWho said:
> ...



And what 'contradiction' is that?


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## smoke665 (Aug 28, 2016)

Not being disrespectful to anyone but this thread seems to have deviated from helping the OP, to a war of rhetoric on who's right. As someone pointed out earlier everyone's right. Shoot what you feel most comfortable with. However as others have also pointed out, the OP's problems involve more than just exposure. By going manual at least for know, it will help him understand and adjust, without the camera second guessing him.


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## sashbar (Aug 28, 2016)

She's lost her Manual, silly cow...




 
... so was shot in Auto (A) with just 2 stops comp and some quick pp.


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## Deleted member 215987 (Aug 28, 2016)

I don't care! Never have cared! Never will care! Sorry, I forgot to take my meds today.


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## Deleted member 215987 (Aug 28, 2016)

By the way sashbar, that gal in the photo looks like she has a spry-on tan!


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## BananaRepublic (Aug 29, 2016)

BananaRepublic said:


> 480sparky said:
> 
> 
> > BananaRepublic said:
> ...



A sarcastic or a edumacated point ....Hmmm


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## BananaRepublic (Aug 29, 2016)

Gary A. said:


> Says who?
> The polls.
> Which polls?
> All of them.



Nobody mentioned Hilary or Trump.


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## Braineack (Aug 29, 2016)

HughGuessWho said:


> Just making the observation that the statement seems to contradict statements in this thread.



Not really.

Suggesting that one should knows how to take control of shutter speed, Aperture, and ISO before giving control over to the camera in no way contradicts his statement.  In fact, it supports it.  Had the OP started in (M) or with the basics of how a camera operates and chooses the exposures it does,  then he would know that shooting in (A) or (M) matters little.  It's the means in how you ultimately determine (3) settings that creates a final output.

Just like I posted two different shots, one in (M) and the other in (A), where the exposure ended up exactly the same --because I know my tool works, and how to use it.

The OP somewhat blindly switched to (M) and was convinced it was better without knowing why/how.  We are presenting questioning to this to help guide the OP _without_ lambasting.  Yes, the shot done in (M) looks better, but the shot -- in whatever auto-mode was used -- could have looked identical.  Vise versa, the shot done in (M) could have looked worse.


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## 480sparky (Aug 29, 2016)

BananaRepublic said:


> Gary A. said:
> 
> 
> > Says who?
> ...



Bacon.

This thread needs some bacon.


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## Gary A. (Aug 29, 2016)

BananaRepublic said:


> Gary A. said:
> 
> 
> > Says who?
> ...


Just seems devolving into a similar conversation ...

Hilary ... Trump
Manual ... Auto
Toe-May-toe ... Toe-Ma-toe


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## TCampbell (Aug 30, 2016)

Apart from a lot of mud-slinging... I was hoping for some more meaningful info on "why" a person should select "auto" vs. "manual".  

I really dislike the two overly-generalized terms because most cameras have more than 2 modes on the dial.  I actually use most of the modes on the dial and "which" mode I choose depends on the situation.  

"Auto", and it's close-relative "Program" both follow something called the "Program Line".  The Program line is an algorithm designed to try to find a "safe" exposure -- which is a lot different than finding the optimal or most artistically pleasing exposure.  Since light will vary and the camera doesn't know anything about the subject, it has to generalize a few things.   

At the risk of generalizing too much (because different cameras will tweak this) here's what it does:

Primarily it assumes you are hand-holding the camera and so it tries to use a "safe" shutter speed for hand-held photography... meaning 1/focal-length of the lens.  
It will prefer base ISO but will boost ISO to meet the needs of the exposure... but it will somewhat resist needing to do this to keep the noise low.
It will prefer a middle-aperture. 

If light is poor, it will boost ISO and reduce aperture to maintain a "safe" shutter-speed for hand-held photography.   If light is particularly poor then it'll drop to lowest possible aperture and highest possible ISO to maintain the safe shutter speed... and if that's still not enough then it'll start dropping the shutter speed.  It usually doesn't know if the lens has image-stabilization (although some newer cameras do know.)

The specific behavior will vary by lens capabilities.  So the exposure it chooses with one lens will not necessarily be the same as the exposure it choose with another lens on the same camera and same lighting conditions.

If lighting is particular abundant it will drop to base ISO and then start using faster shutter speeds and higher aperture values in roughly equal balance until it hits the limits of either (usually aperture) and then keep going with the other.  

"Auto" usually won't let you override settings.
"Program" picks the same initial settings that "Auto" would have picked, but allows you to override elements of exposure (e.g. "Program Shift" features).

And then these discussions tend to ignore the whole discussion over the parts I refer to as "semi-auto" -- such as Aperture or Shutter priority modes. 

I personally use Aperture priority for normal photography most of the time because it allows the strongest control over creative shots (primarily depth of field).  I will sometimes use Shutter priority when there is a specific need to either deliberately freeze motion or deliberately blur motion.  Since most of my photography doesn't involve deliberately freezing or blurring motion, I only occasionally use this mode.

I argue that if you are using manual, but you trust your camera's meter reading, then you're basically using either Aperture or Shutter priority... you're just slower at it.  I say this because you'll set one element of exposure (such as Aperture) first, then adjust the complimentary setting (such as Shutter) until the in-camera meter indicates a correct exposure.  But had you used a semi-auto mode then the camera would have selected the EXACT same exposure you just picked... but it would have done it faster.

If I'm shooting a situation with rapidly changing lighting conditions then I'm definitely in a semi-auto mode because you'd never keep up with the light changes in manual mode.

However I do use Manual mode quite a bit too... 

One key factor that puts me in Manual mode is if I realize that for whatever reason the camera's light meter isn't going to be effective.  For example (a subject near & dear to the OP's heart) if I shoot food photography then I'm using flash and lots of light modifiers.  The camera's meter isn't going to know about all of these because they aren't "lit" when I'm metering the shot.  So I'm manually dialing in the exposure that I know will work best when the shutter is actually open and the flashes are firing.

I actually own an incident meter with flash-metering and flash-contribution capabilities for more advanced metering and exposure than a built-in meter can handle.  If I'm using that, then the camera is also on Manual.

If I'm using ND filters, the camera is on Manual (again, this is a situation where you probably cannot trust the camera's built-in meter.)

I never use full "auto" mode.   If I hand my camera to someone else (or if my spouse wants to use the camera) then I generally switch it to Program mode ... knowing that it'll take "safe" exposures.


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## Ysarex (Aug 30, 2016)

TCampbell said:


> Apart from a lot of mud-slinging... I was hoping for some more meaningful info on "why" a person should select "auto" vs. "manual".
> 
> I really dislike the two overly-generalized terms because most cameras have more than 2 modes on the dial.  I actually use most of the modes on the dial and "which" mode I choose depends on the situation.
> 
> ...



With a modern camera Aperture Priority offers no advantage or any stronger creative control access over exposure than Program mode.  In A mode you take a moment to set the f/stop (let's say f/8) and the camera meters and sets the shutter speed (let's say 1/250th sec) and that's your exposure: f/8 at 1/250th sec (barring any EC value). In P mode I take a moment and turn the Program shift wheel to set the f/stop (let's say f/8) and the camera has already metered and set the shutter speed (1/250th sec) and that's my exposure: f/8 at 1/250th sec (barring any EC value). You're not getting anything different; it just doesn't matter.

As the photographer you need to make the exposure call. You can do that using P, A, S, or M. With a modern camera neither P, A, S, or M force an exposure on you so it matters NOT which one you use.

Joe



TCampbell said:


> I will sometimes use Shutter priority when there is a specific need to either deliberately freeze motion or deliberately blur motion.  Since most of my photography doesn't involve deliberately freezing or blurring motion, I only occasionally use this mode.
> 
> I argue that if you are using manual, but you trust your camera's meter reading, then you're basically using either Aperture or Shutter priority... you're just slower at it.  I say this because you'll set one element of exposure (such as Aperture) first, then adjust the complimentary setting (such as Shutter) until the in-camera meter indicates a correct exposure.  But had you used a semi-auto mode then the camera would have selected the EXACT same exposure you just picked... but it would have done it faster.
> 
> ...


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## snowbear (Aug 30, 2016)

If you're shooting for someone else (customer) and they like the results of whatever mode you used, you were successful.  If you're shooting for yourself and you like the results, you were successful.


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