# Terribly washed out shots on Manual mode -- please advise



## batmura (Oct 26, 2012)

I am a beginner and shoot a D3100. 

Yesterday I took my tripod for the first time and went to the seaside to  take some manual shots. I metered off the sky and took a picture. It  came out washed out although I had ajusted for the correct exposure.  Then I took the same shot on Auto mode and it came out great. Any idea  what I might have done wrong?

I did this around 6 p.m. by the seaside. Here is the auto shot:







And here is the one I took:






 I did not change any metering settings unless I did unknowingly.  What I did was point my camera to the sky (on a tripod), do the meter  reading, leave me ISO at 100, and fiddle with the shutter speed until the  meter read 0. Then I took the shot and it came out very washed out.  Immediately after, I took the same shot on auto and it was much better.

Please advise.


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## enzodm (Oct 26, 2012)

Read EXIF data from images (since they are not available in these ones), so that we have complete info on both shots.


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## batmura (Oct 26, 2012)

Auto (Picture #1): f/7.1 | 1/40 seconds | ISO 400 | 20 mm.

Manual (Picture #2): f/13 | 2.5 seconds | ISO 100 | 20 mm .


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## ann (Oct 26, 2012)

huge difference in time, also you must be in auto ISO as that changed as well.


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## Solarflare (Oct 26, 2012)

Hmm weird.

Nope no idea what you did wrong but you definitely didnt metered correctly.




> Auto (Picture #1): f/7.1 | 1/40 seconds | ISO 400 | 20 mm.
> 
> Manual (Picture #2): f/13 | 2.5 seconds | ISO 100 | 20 mm .


 Thats no way the same metering.

Auto f/7.1 to Manual f/13 - thats 1 step more light for Auto
Auto 1/40s to Manual 2.5 sec - thats approx 7 step more light for Manual
Auto ISO 400 to Manual ISO 100 - thats 2 steps more light for Auto

So your manual exposure was about 4 steps higher. Did you by chance have exposure compensation at ca +4 EV ?





ann said:


> huge difference in time, also you must be in auto ISO as that changed as well.


 He's talking about the green Auto Mode on the mode dial. Thats Auto ISO on any camera I know.


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## SCraig (Oct 26, 2012)

From a strictly metering standpoint I'm not at all surprised that your manual shot turned out the way it did.  When you metered on the sky the meter would have shifted the exposure that the dark sky that you see would be middle gray, or about 3 stops overexposed.  You cannot trust a meter for shots like that, you have to compensate for what the meter thinks is necessary.  If I shoot something like that, I meter the scene and underexpose 3 stops for my starting point, and then adjust from there.

The auto shot most likely used Nikon's built-in "Scene Library" and decided that it was a sunset shot and automatically compensated for it.


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## Dao (Oct 26, 2012)

Which meter mode did you use?
How did you meter the sky and take the shot?

Technically, if you meter the sky and use that setting, the sky should look fine at least.    The 2nd shot seemed to be metered the dark area such as the tree.


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## batmura (Oct 26, 2012)

ann said:


> huge difference in time, also you must be in auto ISO as that changed as well.


I shot the picture in manual mode and set my ISO at 100. When I shot it in auto (landscape) mode, I did not play with ISO as the camera set its own settings.

Solarfare: My exposure compensation was at 3.0, I believe, though I did not change it. I don't even know how to use it and what exactly it does to my pictures. I did not set my auto to the green one but the landscape.

SCraig: How would I know I cannot trust a meter for shots like that? How would I know I'd have to underexpose 3 stops? I guess that comes with experience? But at the same time it makes it harder to shoot in manual. Interestingly, after it got dark, I was able to capture much better shots in manual mode. 

Dao: I did not change any meter modes as I don't even know how. It must be the matrix mode, though. It's always been matrix so far. I mounted the camera on a tripod, pointed it to the sky and metered it. Then I framed my shot and took the picture. When it was underexposed, I simply changed to Auto landscape and took another picture, which was much better.

What did I do wrong?


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## 2WheelPhoto (Oct 26, 2012)

Excellent tutorials here: Cambridge in Colour - Photography Tutorials & Learning Community


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## SCraig (Oct 26, 2012)

Dao said:


> Technically, if you meter the sky and use that setting, the sky should  look fine at least.    The 2nd shot seemed to be metered the dark area  such as the tree.



A dark sky, such as is shown in the original photo, will NOT meter correctly.  The meter is going to interpret that sky as being medium gray, which it obviously is not, and the exposure that it gives will be about three stops overexposed, which is exactly what he got in the "Manual" shot.  Meters are not smart, they only know luminance information.  When they average a scene they take that average value and assume that it is middle gray.  If it was a pure night scene then middle gray is obviously wrong TO US but it is right to the METER because it knows no better.



batmura said:


> SCraig: How would I know I cannot trust a meter for shots like that? How would I know I'd have to underexpose 3 stops? I guess that comes with experience? But at the same time it makes it harder to shoot in manual. Interestingly, after it got dark, I was able to capture much better shots in manual mode.


By understanding how a meter works.  A meter looks at the luminance value of the entire scene (matrix metering) or a specific portion of the scene (center-weighted or spot) and calculates an exposure that will make the sampled area be middle gray.  If you look at the scene with your eyes and it is dark, such as the sky in your shot, and you know that the meter is going to make that middle gray, then you will know that you are going to have to underexpose a good bit to get things back to where you want them.  Same with a bright, white scene.  The meter will convert that bright white to middle gray and underexpose the whole scene.

How much will vary with the scene.  Dark skies such as that, probably 2 stops.  Just a dark overcast day, one stop max or it might even meter right.  Dark night shots, to keep the blacks black, probably 3 stops.  Most of the time it's a guessing game.  That's why you have an LCD monitor on your camera.  LOOK at the shots.  If they are underexposed or overexposed then adjust for it and shoot again.
If what you are metering is very dark then the meter


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## unpopular (Oct 26, 2012)

Will your camera set EC for each mode, i.e. if the EC for auto mode is 0, it will stay at 0 if I change it to +3 in manual mode?


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## Designer (Oct 26, 2012)

IMO, the "auto" setting did you no favors, as it looks underexposed to me.  

How about a shot that is exposed somewhere between these two?  

Or a simple "D-light" pair of exposures?


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## SCraig (Oct 26, 2012)

unpopular said:


> Will your camera set EC for each mode, i.e. if the EC for auto mode is 0, it will stay at 0 if I change it to +3 in manual mode?



Yes, it will.  However in manual mode all it does is bias the meter reading.  If you have, for example, +3 EV set then in manual mode the meter will read 3 EV low so that when the meter is centered the resulting exposure will be 3 EV high.


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## batmura (Oct 26, 2012)

Scraig:

I metered off the sky due to this video:

Digital Photography 1 on 1: Episode 44: Slow Shutter Magic - YouTube

Here, between 8.50 and 9.05 the photographer meters off the sky in pitch black darkness and then recomposes and frames a white building. The end result is stunning. How does he do it or rather what does he do differently?

unpopular: I'm not sure if you're directing this question to me, but when I shoot in manual and the EC is 3, it will stay there even if I switch the auto for another shot. The auto mode obviously changes it but the minute I'm back in manual it's where I left it at.


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## Dao (Oct 26, 2012)

SCraig said:


> Dao said:
> 
> 
> > Technically, if you meter the sky and use that setting, the sky should  look fine at least.    The 2nd shot seemed to be metered the dark area  such as the tree.
> ...



Meter the sky around sun set time should not blown the sky. Everything else can be too dark or too bright, but the sky should be medium gray.  

I took this one around 9pm in July and metered the sky and the bring the shadow back during post.






The bottom line is, the sky should not blown like that if it is metered around that time. Of course, I could be wrong.    But so far, it works for me.  



I guess he is doing it wrong as well.


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## 480sparky (Oct 26, 2012)

My guess the EC is not set to 0.

The Auto shot isn't underexposed..... it just needs the white point brought down.


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## batmura (Oct 26, 2012)

SCraig said:


> If you look at the scene with your eyes and it is dark, such as the sky in your shot, and you know that the meter is going to make that middle gray, then you will know that you are going to have to underexpose a good bit to get things back to where you want them.


So what I should have done is ignore the meter reading and set the time 2 stops earlier instead? What about changing the black in dark night shots to a blueish colour?


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## batmura (Oct 26, 2012)

Dao said:


> I took this one around 9pm in July and metered the sky and the bring the shadow back during post.


Dao, I love this shot. Can you give me the EXIF for this one? How many seconds was the exposure?

Since I metered off the sky, what do you think caused the overexposure? I too watched the same video by Peterson and tried to do the same thing except that the sun hadn't set yet.

480: Should my EC normally be at 0?


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## 480sparky (Oct 26, 2012)

batmura said:


> ..........? What about changing the black in dark night shots to a blueish colour?




If you're asking about long exposures at night, the sky doesn't 'turn blue'.  The night sky IS blue.


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## 480sparky (Oct 26, 2012)

batmura said:


> 480: Should my EC normally be at 0?




Yes. I'm wondering if either you forgot to reset it to 0 at one point, or somehow you accidently changed it.


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## batmura (Oct 26, 2012)

480sparky said:


> If you're asking about long exposures at night, the sky doesn't 'turn blue'.  The night sky IS blue.


So? Does this mean long exposures at night work while before sunset they don't and will yield overexposed shots like mine?


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## Dao (Oct 26, 2012)

17mm, f/5.6, iso100, 20 secs on tripod

Next time, maybe try spot meter the sky instead of matrix.   Whether you need to + or - the exposure depends on the scene.  Over exposure a little is better.  My shot was not too good since I did not overexpose a little so when I bring the shadow back, it introduce more noise. 

Again, EC to 0 or not depends on the scene.  I guess you can bracket the shots and see how they turn out.


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## 480sparky (Oct 26, 2012)

batmura said:


> 480sparky said:
> 
> 
> > If you're asking about long exposures at night, the sky doesn't 'turn blue'.  The night sky IS blue.
> ...



We're talking about two different time periods.... Your shots are during 'daylight' hours.  I was asking about shooting at night, under a dark, starry sky.  A long enough exposure will render the sky blue, especially if the moon is out.  Contrary to popular belief, the sky is not black at night.  It's blue.


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## KmH (Oct 26, 2012)

batmura said:


> I did not change any meter modes as I don't even know how.
> 
> What did I do wrong?


What you have done wrong is you apparently haven't yet read the D3100 User's Manual so you know what basic exposure adjustments are available to you.
Read the manual with your camera at hand so you can make the changes the manual describes. In fact, you will need to read the manual several times, and always keep it handy for reference in your gear bag.

See pages 79-32, that's the user's manual section that covers the D3100's metering features. They explain the 3 metering modes you have available to choose from, exposure compensation, and exposure lock.

It's like you're trying to learn how to drive a car, without first finding out how to change from parking lights, to the regular headlights, to the high beams.


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## jwbryson1 (Oct 26, 2012)

KmH said:


> batmura said:
> 
> 
> > I did not change any meter modes as I don't even know how.
> ...



.


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## 480sparky (Oct 26, 2012)

KmH said:


> .........It's like you're trying to learn how to drive a car, without first finding out how to change from parking lights, to the regular headlights, to the high beams.




Most of us started learning to drive..... during the day.


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## amolitor (Oct 26, 2012)

Looks like the auto mode did ok. Which is really the weird thing, because everyone KNOWS that auto mode is for losers, and produces terrible pictures!

I don't know what, exactly, is going on here, but you have a basic problem in your process. Sure, you need to understand how the meter works and so on, and if you're going to shoot manual you should know what exposure compensation does in manual mode (hint: experiment and see what happens, photographs are cheap when you're shooting digital).

Most of all, just look at the picture on the back of the camera. Read the manual so you know how to make it show you a histogram, and read up on what the histogram means. When your metering is wrong, you should be able to pick up on that quickly, and make corrections. Then just delete the overexposed ones, and nobody will ever know about them!


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## kundalini (Oct 26, 2012)

batmura said:


> Please advise.


Never take only the one shot when trying something new, like Manual Shooting Mode.  

With the tripod handy, run through the settings in a practical manner. So if you metered f/13 | 2.5 seconds | ISO 100 | 20 mm, run up and down the scale for shutter speed since you are doing a landscape scene.  This gives you a reference point to pull from in the future for what time exposure does to your images.  Then reset to your original settings and do the same thing with aperture.

Rinse and repeat.


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## enzodm (Oct 26, 2012)

480sparky said:


> My guess the EC is not set to 0.



Batmura: in you EXIF there should be also info on exposure compensation. Look at it.


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## pgriz (Oct 26, 2012)

It's a good habit to set your camera to a baseline.  In my case, with a Canon T1i, it's ISO=100, mode=Manual, EC = 0, AF=on, IS=on, WB=cloudy, Metering mode = spot, etc.  If I grab the camera to shoot something, I know what my camera is set to.  When I deviate from the baseline for whatever reason, after I'm finished it's a goodhabit to reset the camera back to the baseline values.

When you meter "off" something, it is good to have the meter in "spot" mode, as usually you want to get a measurement of that spot only.  Then based on what you metered, you can make a decision as to how to use that reading.  As discussed by Sparky and other contributors to this thread, knowing that the meter always gives the reading AS IF the target was 18% grey, you can decide whether to under- or over-expose relative to the meter reading.  Let's say that you did meter off the sky in spot mode, and had a reading of f/5.6, 1/30sec (assuming ISO 100).  You decide that the sky was brighter than 18% grey.    So you need to over-expose the image so that the sky will end up being brighter.  Let's assume you will try f/5.6 at 1/15 sec. (1 stop overexposed relative to the meter).  Now look at the histogram of the image and see where the distribution of values lies.  If they are mostly to the right then the image is over-exposed.  If they are mostly to the left, then the image is probably underexposed.  And once you see the result, you can adjust from there.  

But keep in mind what the other posters also told you - you have to be sensitive to the overall tonality of your subject.  If you're shooting a black cat sitting on black velvet, you would expect the brightness values to be mostly on the left side of the histogram.  if you're shooting a white dress on a snow-covered field, you can expect most of the values to be on the right side of the histogram even with the correct exposure.


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## fmw (Oct 28, 2012)

Meters are designed to average out the subject to 18% gray.  It will overexpose black and underexpose white to get them to medium gray.  That is what the meter did in your manual shot.  It took an evening shot and turned it into a daylight shot by overexposing.  It is important to understand what your meter does.  Manual exposure requires the photographer to out-think the metering system.  Those of us who learned phoography before the era of auto exposure would know to underexpose the shot based on the reflected meter reading.  I recommend going to the library and checking out an old book on photographic exposures.


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## unpopular (Oct 28, 2012)

More precisely, meters are calibrated to an arbitrary middle grey, traditionally 18% reflectance. What this means is that when your light meter reads "0" that means the sensor/film is receiving the same amount of exposure as was present when the meter was calibrated.

This is an important point, because it means that "0" does not mean "proper", only that it matches a reference condition.


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## jessicagreen765 (Oct 29, 2012)

Try to use photoshop and turn does photos into one photo by creating an HDR image.


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## unpopular (Oct 29, 2012)

^^ +1. Don't bother leaning how to use your camera.


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