# 5 Blue Downers - April POTM



## Black_Square (Apr 20, 2017)

Hi,

I met Andre whilst shooting street portraits. He's living on the streets. Andre explained that his dog had recently been taken off him by the local dog warden. This prompted him to take 5 valium and drink a bottle of wine. Fortunately he's ok and managed to get his dog back. Unfortunately for me said dog bit me on my leg.

Image post processed to create a painterly style.

Thanks for looking.


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## jcdeboever (Apr 20, 2017)

Wouldn't have known it.


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## tirediron (Apr 20, 2017)

Excellent image!


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## Dean_Gretsch (Apr 20, 2017)

He has a very kind face. You did an incredible job with this. I like it very much!


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## Gary A. (Apr 20, 2017)

Dean_Gretsch said:


> He has a very kind face. You did an incredible job with this. I like it very much!


I echo Dean. Well done.  I hope the leg isn't terribly damaged.  ... got a shot of the dog?


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## mmaria (Apr 21, 2017)

could you share your processing?

wonderful


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## annamaria (Apr 21, 2017)

Absolutely wonderful !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Black_Square (Apr 21, 2017)

Thanks for the comments guys.


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## Fred von den Berg (Apr 21, 2017)

Excellent portrait. For me, this could be King Lear.


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## Dean_Gretsch (Apr 21, 2017)

I like this photo so much I just nominated it for Photo of the Month! Great job!

April 2017 Photo of the Month Nominations


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## kap55 (Apr 21, 2017)

Cool story with a great photo


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## Black_Square (Apr 22, 2017)

Thanks guys. I appreciate the comments and am pleased you like the image.


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## 480sparky (Apr 22, 2017)

I like it................. except for one minor thing.

He's too far to the left in the frame.


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## zombiesniper (Apr 22, 2017)

Cool story, Excellent image and an engaging subject. What's not to like.

Very well done.


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## Derrel (Apr 22, 2017)

Good portrait with an unusual title. Like Sparky mentioned, he does seem a bit far to the left within the frame area. A slight recropping might elevate this shot even higher.


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## Black_Square (Apr 22, 2017)

mmaria said:


> could you share your processing?
> 
> wonderful



Hi Maria, I have mixed feelings about post processing.  I've been working on my editing methods for 10 years now and after a lot of hard work have finally established my own look and style. Therefore I'm a little reluctant to share all. I know it's a little selfish but if I hadn't figured things out for myself then my photography would not be what it is. Therefore my advice is experiment!


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## DarkShadow (Apr 22, 2017)

The price we pay sometimes for a good shot.Great Portrait.


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## Black_Square (Apr 23, 2017)

I'll have a look at the composition. TBH I hadn't noticed the left positioning of the subject. This is an uncropped D810 image so plenty of space to work with!


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## mmaria (Apr 24, 2017)

Black_Square said:


> mmaria said:
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ok


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## DanOstergren (Apr 24, 2017)

mmaria said:


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No photographer is going to be able to mimic your style, even with your techniques being used. No one has your taste, or your vision, or has gone through the life experience that has helped you develop your art and style over the last 10 years.


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## Designer (Apr 24, 2017)

Black_Square said:


> This is an uncropped D810 image ..


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## Black_Square (Apr 24, 2017)

DanOstergren said:


> mmaria said:
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Totally agree, that is why there is little point in sharing the post processing techniques that motivate my style and aesthetic as it will inevitably be different to another persons. That's why I firmly believe that people should experiment in order to discover their own approach.


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## Black_Square (Apr 24, 2017)

Designer said:


> Black_Square said:
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If you mean getting the framing right at the outset, then I couldn't agree more. However the subject wouldn't keep still so this was the best I could manage, whilst keeping everything as sharp as possible!


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## Designer (Apr 24, 2017)

Black_Square said:


> Designer said:
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You said it wasn't cropped.  Does your D810 often produce that aspect ratio?


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## Black_Square (Apr 24, 2017)

Designer said:


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I see, no, it doesn't produce that aspect ratio. On reflection I did crop the original image slightly as the eyes were not level - my bad!


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## DanOstergren (Apr 24, 2017)

Black_Square said:


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I firmly disagree. Learning an effective editing technique from another very skilled photographer and retoucher really helped me develop my own style; it was actually crucial to it and was a major turning point in taking my work to a new level of quality. Because it was such a major turning point for me and because it was the catalyst to a great deal of improvement in my art, I believe learning and teaching new techniques is incredibly helpful and educational for both the photographer learning something new and for the one who is teaching. I'm all about sharing that knowledge because of how grateful I am personally for the knowledge that was shared with me. It helped me love the craft even more and become incredibly passionate about it.


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## Black_Square (Apr 24, 2017)

DanOstergren said:


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After many years of working independantly to develop my photography and editing technique i cant really convey enough how satisfying and rewarding it felt when everything finally clicked. That's why I would encourage others to experiment for themselves to develop their own style.

It's great to hear that you were able to develop your style with the assistance of another photographer. I'd be interested in seeing the work of the other photographer.

Cheers


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## DanOstergren (Apr 24, 2017)

Black_Square said:


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Yes experimenting and learning on your own is part of the process, but getting help from others along the way doesn't discredit anyone's hard work. I've been doing this now for close to ten years as well, and I can promise you I've put in the work, regardless of whether I got a new technique or guidance from more skilled photographers along the way, and it was just as rewarding and satisfying to get to the place I'm at in my career. 

I learned a great deal from interning for fashion photographer Michael Thompson, who worked under Irving Penn for many years. Michael learned a great deal from Penn before I learned from Michael. Even though we've gotten guidance, we still put in the hard work to develop a unique style that is different from those who taught us (but still majorly influenced).


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## Black_Square (Apr 25, 2017)

DanOstergren said:


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There can be no right or wrong response to this discussion as we have both been influenced from difference experiences and obtain satisfaction in different ways.

I love the work of Penn and can clearly see how he has had an obvious influence on thompsons's style.

Cheers


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## mmaria (Apr 25, 2017)

DanOstergren said:


> No photographer is going to be able to mimic your style, even with your techniques being used. No one has your taste, or your vision, or has gone through the life experience that has helped you develop your art and style over the last 10 years.


 truth


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## mmaria (Apr 25, 2017)

Black_Square said:


> DanOstergren said:
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and how they will experiment and try different things if no one is willing to share their knowledge? I highly doubt that any of us would learn this much by ourselves and I doubt that you figured out everything by yourself without seeing and exploring other people's work. 
If you have just PS in front of you without any tutorial, you will be able to figure out some stuff on your own but you would need a lot more time and experimentation.

Anyway, you're entitled to your opinion and there's not much point in this discussion.


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## Black_Square (Apr 25, 2017)

mmaria said:


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Of course I explored other peoples work. I've sat in libraries reading books on renaissance painting techniques and studied the lighting techniques of renaissance painters and those from the Romantic period like Gericault. I've closely examined the colour pallete of painters like Rembrandt to create my own custom palletes and brushes in photoshop. These are the people who have inspired me and using my own abilities and drive to learn have managed to translate the elements of their work that  I admire into my own photographic style.

You asked me to share my post processing technique and I politely declined to do that for reasons that I am perfectly entitled to hold. However, now you're criticising me for the response that I gave. I'd understand if I'd posted my image in one of the 'beginner' or 'techniques' forum but I didn't. I posted my image in this forum as I just wanted to share my work.

I'm pretty new to this forum and I have to say I'm a little disappointed with the attitude.


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## mmaria (Apr 25, 2017)

Black_Square said:


> Of course I explored other peoples work. I've sat in libraries reading books on renaissance painting techniques and studied the lighting techniques of renaissance painters and those from the Romantic period like Gericault. I've closely examined the colour pallete of painters like Rembrandt to create my own custom palletes and brushes in photoshop. These are the people who have inspired me and using my own abilities and drive to learn have managed to translate the elements of their work that  I admire into my own photographic style.


 I appreciate you shared this



> You asked me to share my post processing technique and I politely declined to do that for reasons that I am perfectly entitled to hold. However, now you're criticising me for the response that I gave. I'd understand if I'd posted my image in one of the 'beginner' or 'techniques' forum but I didn't. I posted my image in this forum as I just wanted to share my work.


 When you declined to share your pp technique I said simply "Ok". I didn't criticize the fact you declined, I responded on your other post, discussing different points of our view. I responded on what you said here





> Totally agree, that is why there is little point in sharing the post processing techniques that motivate my style and aesthetic as it will inevitably be different to another persons. That's why I firmly believe that people should experiment in order to discover their own approach.





> I'm pretty new to this forum and I have to say I'm a little disappointed with the attitude.


 Don't allow our disagreement about sharing pp work ruin tpf for you. 
We're not that bad here, we're just used to share. 
Your photography is really good and tpf needs good photographers.


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## DanOstergren (Apr 25, 2017)

Black_Square said:


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She did no such thing, nor did I. This forum is meant to help educate each other and for discussion. If someone asks about your technique and you're so protective of it that you refuse to share, we also have the right to share our opinion as to why we think that's unreasonable and in your own words disappointing.


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## Black_Square (Apr 25, 2017)

I am quite taken aback that my personal reason for


DanOstergren said:


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I just posted my photo on here to share. I was asked whether I wanted to share my post processing technique and I politely declined to do so. I am


DanOstergren said:


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I posted in this forum in order to share my work. I was asked whether I would share my post processing technique and I politely declined. Following that I have been dragged into this pointless debate about attitudes to knowledge sharing despite the fact that I’m under no obligation to share my technique and nor have I posted in a forum where that would be expected. That being said, if somebody asks, how do curves work, or what are the benefits of LAB mode etc. then I’d be more than happy to assist.

If you have any comments/feedback about my photo then that’s fine, although if you want to discuss the merits of knowledge sharing / post processing then it might be better to take it to a different forum.


Cheers,


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## Black_Square (Apr 25, 2017)

mmaria said:


> Black_Square said:
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> > Of course I explored other peoples work. I've sat in libraries reading books on renaissance painting techniques and studied the lighting techniques of renaissance painters and those from the Romantic period like Gericault. I've closely examined the colour pallete of painters like Rembrandt to create my own custom palletes and brushes in photoshop. These are the people who have inspired me and using my own abilities and drive to learn have managed to translate the elements of their work that  I admire into my own photographic style.
> ...



Hey, no problem at all - I'm sticking around


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## DanOstergren (Apr 25, 2017)

Black_Square said:


> I am quite taken aback that my personal reason for
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It's simply been a discussion in a discussion forum. Nobody dragged you into anything. If it came across that you were being criticized, that wasn't the intention. You should know that post-production is often discussed in the People Photography forum because it's very relevant to the subject matter, so this is the right forum for such discussions.

 Honestly speaking the only point I started taking an attitude with you was because you said you were disappointed with this forum, because we were discussing a topic that we simply disagreed on. I apologize for saying you were being unreasonable for not sharing your processing, I was just frustrated that my disagreement with you was taken as criticism and attitude.


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## Black_Square (Apr 25, 2017)

DanOstergren said:


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Dan, we've all moved on.


DanOstergren said:


> Black_Square said:
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No problem - I think this has been done to death so let's just move on


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## Black_Square (May 17, 2017)

Hi people,

Just a big thank you for those who voted my image as POTM. There were a lot of great images that month, so to come out on top of the pile is very humbling.


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