# Photography AA degree $46000.00 ??? with a "Free $700.00 Nikon" -- THOUGHTS PLEASE ??



## cgipson1 (Mar 24, 2012)

TPF...

one of our members has enrolled in a school to get an AA degree in photography. They told him that he has the "EYE" and will be very successful!  They are also providing a $700 Nikon as part of the tuition. Now keep in mind this is a ASSOCIATES DEGREE... not a bachelors or a masters... 

*The tuition is a mere $46,000.00 dollars*.

I checked online.. and most community colleges offer an AA for around 7k to 10k. Some of the online programs like Kaplan and Phoenix are around 30k for an AA.. which I still think is outrageous, but the convenience might outweigh the cost.

The school is the Art Institute of Indianapolis and it has some very questionable reviews online... not much info on it online really, that I could find. Our member (future student) states the negative reviews aren't for the photography program... so they don't count... (I think he is an optimist!) lol!

Art Institute of Indianapolis - Student Reviews

The Art Institute of Indianapolis - Review & Ranking | American School Search

Is anyone here familiar with the school, or the AA Photography program? Is it worth such a high tuition? Or is it a rip-off?  Just trying to assist the member in question (with his permission!)

Oh.. and they finance too.. not sure what the interest rate is, but I bet it is higher than most....


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## Sw1tchFX (Mar 25, 2012)

Speaking from experience with AI......

Take the $46,000 and spend it on education from AI and bust your butt doing school work for 2 years.
OR
Take the $46,000 and spend it on studio space, rentals, computers, software, gear and bust your butt shooting pictures of people and things for 2 years.


After 2 years, who do you think will be more established and knowledgeable about real photography in the real world? The one who spent $46,000 busting their butt shooting.

If you're going to go to school for photography, go for an education in History, Theory, and Concept where you can have engaging discussions on everything _but_ aperture and shutter speed.


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## Dahrol (Mar 25, 2012)

VERY interesting point. 

But how was your experience at the AI, and what were you able to leave with after you completed the program? How much did you put into it, and how much did you get back?


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## rexbobcat (Mar 25, 2012)

Sw1tchFX said:
			
		

> Speaking from experience with AI......
> 
> Take the $46,000 and spend it on education from AI and bust your butt doing school work for 2 years.
> OR
> ...



Unless that 46k is tied into scholarships and grants *dundundun*


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## Dahrol (Mar 25, 2012)

> _*"If you're going to go to school for photography, go for an education in History, Theory, and Concept where you can have engaging discussions on everythingbut aperture and shutter speed."*_



...but...all of that is listed in my curriculum... o__O


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## cgipson1 (Mar 25, 2012)

One thing to think about.. is that none of the credits from AI will transfer to any college or university... only to other "Art" schools in the same chain (AI and the rest are accredited like a trade school). They are also a FOR PROFIT school... which means that PROFIT is going to be their primary motivation....

These are quotes from an article about one of the ART schools being sued:
*
"Critics of for-profit colleges, including several congressional  lawmakers, say many programs prey on students, leaving them with  expensive degrees, low-wage jobs and high-interest loans they'll never  be able to repay*.

 A Government Accountability Office report published last summer notes  that students who enroll in for-profit programs often pay exorbitant  amounts for degrees they could earn for much less at nonprofit schools.
In the Triangle, for instance, an associate degree in culinary arts  at A.I., not including housing or other supplies, costs $52,976. An  in-state resident can earn the same degree starting next year at Wake  Technical Community College for $5,120&#8212;more than a 90 percent difference  in cost (see chart).


*For-profit schools enroll about 12 percent of all U.S. students. But  those students account for nearly half of all student loan defaults,*  U.S. Sen. Tom Harkin, D-Iowa, said at a hearing last week. Many analysts  are comparing high-interest student loans to the subprime mortgages  that crashed the U.S. economy three years ago."

Students file complaints against Art Institute with N.C. attorney general | Durham County | Independent Weekly


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## Tony S (Mar 25, 2012)

Go to a real school if you are going to go into debt for an education.  Chances are during those four years you are going to change your mind over what you really want to do at least three times.  If you are not going to a school that has the cirriculum to change or have credits that are transferable to another school you are wasting time and money.


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## EGutierrez91 (Mar 25, 2012)

$46,000? For an associates? They are wiping their ass your money. 

It's just like all trade schools. Expensive, they like to sell themselves as being amazing (job search help, etc.) but when it comes down to it, it's all a big ripoff. 

Why don't you go to a local community college or even a university and pursue a Bachelor's of Fine Arts? Why go to an Art Institute instead of an actual college?


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## cgipson1 (Mar 25, 2012)

Dahrol.... they are giving you a cheap camera, and charging outrageous fees.. and you will be in debt for a long long time! Even if you do manage to get a decent job out of it, you will still owe huge sums of money..... 

 I work IT.. and have seen the same type of schools totally destroy people wanting to get into the IT field. They would teach people how to pass certifications test... even give hints on how to cheat, and the people would pass the tests, and get their MCSE, or CCNA certs. But they couldn't get jobs except as low end techs, because they didn't really know how to do what the Certs signified.. they just knew how to pass the tests. And they charged huge sum for this "Certification training" they did... and told every one of the student they were "naturals"..lol!


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## Tony S (Mar 25, 2012)

Kind of reminds me of the old match covers where you would draw a copy of the picture and send it in to see if you had talent... I did one as a stick person and they still wanted me to go to their school.


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## Derrel (Mar 25, 2012)

I would take my $46,000 and RUN THE OTHER WAY!!! Art Institute of Indianapolis....uh...no, sorry...an AA degree in photography for 46k? That just sounds like a ton of wasted money. I would refer you to post #2 above.


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## molested_cow (Mar 25, 2012)

Dahrol, I think you have the "eye". You will be absolutely successful, rich and famous photographer and land yourself a $100k/yr job BEFORE you even graduate! I really think you should enroll in my program for just $23k. You will get your degree in just one year, I promise!

Now please provide me with your address and bank account information so we can get you started.

Sincerely,
Nigerian Prince



As mentioned before, AI is for-profit trade school. It's really silly to think you are going there for REAL education. If you are just looking to learn a trade, like becoming an auto mechanic or pilot, sure, these trade schools are great for technical skills. However to go to a trade school for artistic skill development is really just paying for someone to say "yeah it looks good to me", which this forum already does a good job for free.

So let's put things into perspective. An above average, accredited art and design school (private) charges about $13k a semester. If you go with the standard route you will graduate in 8 semesters, which is $104k. This comes with all the other liberal arts classes you have to ace on top of your studio work. This comes with instructors who work as professionals as well as competitive and talented classmates to challenge, encourage and critic you. This is full time, 18 credit per semester of ass busting college life where you live on ramen and redbull to pull through everyday, and probably part time jobs just to make some pocket money for beer. This comes with an environment where EVERYONE around is serious about what they are trying to achieve.

Compared to AI's $46k for two years, a 4-yr college is quite cheap.

If you enroll in a local state college that has photography major, being in-state I am sure you can get it for really cheap. Unless of course you are not sure of all the Sciences and liberal arts and math credits you also have to acquire. Don't worry, you can always go those in a community college and transfer the credits, goes the same if you enroll in an accredited art school.

Type of degree aside, Photography isn't the type of trade where you need a certificate or license to get yourself into the door. It's your portfolio. So think about this, which route will most likely help you build the badass portfolio that you will need to impress your potential employers or clients with? From a two year trade school or a four-year college?

Another perspective to consider. No one here is gonna profit from who you pay your tuition to, but AI is going to profit from your $46k to them. We are just telling you that your money can be spent more wisely. That's all.

The best thing you can do is to attend the school's graduation exhibition and talk to the students. Go to different schools, in different states. Don't just consider studying local because good schools are rare. Take a over night trip to Detroit's College for Creative Studies, or Chicago's Institute of Art, or Cleveland Institute of Art, or University of Cincinnati. All of these schools have excellent programs, but they are competitive as well.

Wait, did they send you a "art test package" yet?


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## Bitter Jeweler (Mar 25, 2012)

Oh, wow.

Yeah, I would take your money to a real university, that has a fantastic school of art.
I never regret my Uni education. A degree was meaningless in my career choice. I am sure it's the same with photography.
The well rounded education has been invaluable. I also studied psychology and education.

Darhol, get an education, but I highly reccomend you think twice about an associate degree from AI.


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## Compaq (Mar 25, 2012)

Become Nowegian and get your education for free.

I don't know much of your educational system over there, but I would get a "real" education from a university. Take courses whose creds are transferable to other universities if you should not like it there. Getting an education is one of the most important choices you make. Make it with care. It costs money and it costs time. I'm under the impression that keeping a job for a lifetime is the exception in the USA, but that is no reason to jump into something you may regret later on. 

Your education will be the base for your income for many years. Having a good education is also something you can be proud of, a feeling of accomplishment. There are many reasons for getting a real education from a good university.


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## IByte (Mar 25, 2012)

cgipson1 said:
			
		

> Dahrol.... they are giving you a cheap camera, and charging outrageous fees.. and you will be in debt for a long long time! Even if you do manage to get a decent job out of it, you will still owe huge sums of money.....
> 
> I work IT.. and have seen the same type of schools totally destroy people wanting to get into the IT field. They would teach people how to pass certifications test... even give hints on how to cheat, and the people would pass the tests, and get their MCSE, or CCNA certs. But they couldn't get jobs except as low end techs, because they didn't really know how to do what the Certs signified.. they just knew how to pass the tests. And they charged huge sum for this "Certification training" they did... and told every one of the student they were "naturals"..lol!



.....Geek Squad


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## OpticMemory (Mar 25, 2012)

46k.. Thats insane for an AA.  I suggest to look for an alternative and inexpensive avenue to learn photography.
I can do alot of 46k in terms of gear.


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## Robin Usagani (Mar 25, 2012)

I just recently began my wedding photography business.  No I dont have a photography degree.  That would suck if you have a degree in something and you have to compete with people who can do the same thing without the degree.

My degree is in Structural engineer.  When I look for an engineering job, other candidates have the same degree or somewhat comparable.  That would suck if anyone can apply  .  Just saying...


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## bentcountershaft (Mar 25, 2012)

Schwettylens said:


> I just recently began my wedding photography business. No I dont have a photography degree. That would suck if you have a degree in something and you have to compete with people who can do the same thing without the degree.
> 
> My degree is in Structural engineer. When I look for an engineering job, other candidates have the same degree or somewhat comparable. That would suck if anyone can apply . Just saying...



I've been thinking of doing a little structural engineering on the side, you know, just for a little extra cash. Tomorrow morning I'll be submitting my bridge plans to the city. Any last minute tips?

Back to topic:

I think I looked at the AI of Indy when I was a senior in high school. I wasn't in to photography then but I was looking at graphic design as a possibility. If it's the same place I looked at I actually took a trip there, but I don't remember much about it. I do remember it seeming expensive for what I saw. Not that it would have made much of a difference to me in the long run any way. I'm sure it would have been just as dissapointing to my parents when I dropped out of AI as it was when I dropped out of IU.


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## CCericola (Mar 25, 2012)

It is the Art Institute. Of course they said " ooh you have a great eye" they are a for profit educational business. The recruiter doesn't get their bonus if they can't get you to buy what they are selling.


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## KmH (Mar 25, 2012)

A $700 Nikon is not expensive for a DSLR camera.

The prosumer grade Nikon D800 is $3000, and the professional grade Nikon D3x is $8000.

Professional grade digital medium format cameras can cost over $40,000 - Hasselblad H4D-60 60 Megapixels Digital SLR Camera, 40.2x53.7mm CCD Image Sensor, 16-Bit Color, 80mm f/2.8 Lens


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## Helen B (Mar 25, 2012)

Everything has been said already, I think, but I'll reinforce it anyway. I agree with everyone who says "run away fast". Not only are you committing a huge amount of money that could be spent in better ways, but you are also spending precious time that might be spent in better ways. I don't know how much you enjoy formal education, but I really dislike it, so the benefits have to be really good to tip the overall balance. The valuable things I got from my formal education were mostly from meeting people, and from learning how to learn: ask yourself how best to get these things and any specific technical/craft training you require. Unless you want to go into a job or get a professional membership that requires an associates degree (and they will accept one from the AI) it's going to be less valuable than a piece of toilet paper. Please don't get it just to prove something - there are better ways to do that as well. The way to prove that you are a good photographer who can do a good job is to show people good photographs, and show that you have personal initiative.

The best illustration I can think of is an answer that my girlfriend gave to undergraduates at Yale, when she was the guest of honor at a Dean's Tea. When asked how best they should break into film, she told them that their contemporaries were already working in film while they sat there at Yale. It wasn't a pretty scene, and she regrets having said it that way in those circumstances, but the point is still valid. And we're talking about Yale, not the AI.


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## F_Stopped (Mar 25, 2012)

Not worth it to me. Spend that money on equipment and books/videos and get out there and shoot. You'll learn more by doing it over that same time frame.


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## EGutierrez91 (Mar 25, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> Dahrol.... they are giving you a cheap camera, and charging outrageous fees.. and you will be in debt for a long long time! Even if you do manage to get a decent job out of it, you will still owe huge sums of money.....
> 
> I work IT.. and have seen the same type of schools totally destroy people wanting to get into the IT field. They would teach people how to pass certifications test... even give hints on how to cheat, and the people would pass the tests, and get their MCSE, or CCNA certs. But they couldn't get jobs except as low end techs, because they didn't really know how to do what the Certs signified.. they just knew how to pass the tests. And they charged huge sum for this "Certification training" they did... and told every one of the student they were "naturals"..lol!



Funny you mention that. I also work in the IT field. I see so many kids falling for these for-profit schools (I live in NYC and it seems like they sprout up here every day), and getting into so much debt. I know people with just experience and no degree making a decent amount of money, but only because of experience. Experience will trump everything! Getting your feet wet in the subject is always a great idea. What happens when you decide photography is not for you? 

So you pay $46,000 in loans, to get a $700 camera? Why not take out a loan to buy the camera and learn yourself. Dahrol, I think you don't realize how much $46,000 is. I'm currently a college student and I'm in approximately in $30,000 of debt (studying Electrical Engineering), but engineering is a field where you need formal education. I still think it's a lot, but unfortunately I don't receive much financial aid, but I definitely wish I did. If you calculate the payments on the $30,000, even making huge payments, you are paying about $1,500 a year on interest alone. It's a lot of money. Sit down and do the math please. Have you asked any friends/family/neighbors about this?

Honestly, I'm genuinely concerned that you don't know what you're getting yourself into. 

Take that money and put it towards a nice degree! You will be pretty limited in what you can do with that degree from the Art Institute. What happens if you don't make it?


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## 2WheelPhoto (Mar 25, 2012)

Art Institute is a scam.  I looked at them, its actually about 90K after all is said and done.  I'm enrolled at University of South Florida, utter peanuts compared to that Art Institute degree mill.


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## pgriz (Mar 25, 2012)

The value of an education has at least four components:
a)  Facts and processes.  That is what most focus on.  But facts and processes become obsolete frighteningly fast.  So the real purpose here is to learn how to learn.  Identify and define the problem, construct an approach to solve the problem, research the known information about the problem, and then put it together to solve the problem.  In the case of the liberal arts, it often a case of learning to ask the right question.
b) Discipline and hard work.  Most real programs have a lot of material to cover and progress depends on assimilating the basics before going to more advanced subjects.  Repetition, practice,and thorough reading of the material usually determine the good students from those who think they are there for a good time.
c) Broadening horizons.  The real value of education is to broaden your horizons.  Make you aware of whatyou don&#8217;t know.  Now that you know the world is a much, much bigger and complex place than you initially imagined it to be, you&#8217;re better equipped to navigate it.
d) Building contacts.  In many fields it&#8217;s who you know trumping what you know.  In any class, there will be the future stellar achievers, and the town drunks.  It&#8217;s often not clear who will end up where.  Keeping the contacts, and then staying closer to those that are moving ahead is a wise career move.

For the professional fields (medicine, engineering, law, etc.), the formal education gives you the basic tools that allow you to pass the professional exams, but the real learning still happens after.  Doctors still have to spend years in residency, engineers are almost always associated for the first 5-10 years with the senior engineers, and lawyers almost all do grunt-work for the senior partners before they are allowed into the partnership.

Photography is a field where no formal credentials are necessary.  However, the most expensive school that exists out there is the school of hard knocks.  Experience comes from making mistakes, and mistakes can be expensive in time lost, opportunity lost, reputation lost, and money lost.  It&#8217;s a much better idea to learn from other people&#8217;s mistakes (either through formal education or apprenticeship), and to use your limited time on this planet effectively.

So to answer the question, whether the $46,000 is worth it &#8211;which of the above four points will be properly handled by a for-profit school?  Will they be teaching principles, or application?  My reading of the curriculum of many trade schools is that they focus on the application, but not on the underlying principles.


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## Dahrol (Mar 25, 2012)

I'd consider this "information" you guys have been so caring to share with me, but NOBODY had told me the information I NEED to know, which is whether they have experienced the Art Institute, completed it, and gave %110 toward what they're doing. Nobody has explained to me whether they got quality instruction or practice while attending and/or if completing everything to the best of their ability achieved anything. Not one single person.  

All I'm getting is "$46,000? YEAH RIGHT! ZOMG THEY'RE GONNA RAPE YOUR BANK!" 

Anybody who still believes that little piece of paper they call a "degree" is actually worth something is still living in the 90's. The government has tricked us into believing that with that standard education, anything is possible. It's a lie, and I see it every single day.  

It's about who you know, and what you're prepared to do with ANY opportunity you're given. It's about making the right connections and using your skill, natural or otherwise to do the talking for you, not your degree. 

Remember when a high school diploma used to be worth something? It's sitting right over there on my desk. It's just...sitting there. Sure, it would be useful for "further education," but that's always what it is. It's like a never ending cycle. "You need more education...you need more education." 

Basing your future on a degree has gotten so many people I know absolutely nowhere. A friend who went to a 4 year university and got a bachelor's in business administration, but is stuck working at a place that helps disabled people find work for around $20,000 a year. But hey, he got that piece of paper, so the options should be limitless for him, right? 

They're only limitless if you're creative. The age of relying on other people to have jobs created for you is approaching an end, and that's why so many are stuck in crappy jobs at horrible wages, because they've settled. They haven't made the most of what they were given, they just settled. 

Innovation and creativity is the wave of the future. If $46,000 is going to get me around people who are pros in their field, the best equipment to practice on, at my disposal, guidance, internships and other opportunities doing what I WANT to do, and not settling for what's available, it's worth the money to me. If I get to focus on what I want to do, and not get sidetracked by worthless and irrelevant curriculum, it's worth the money to me. When I want to learn something, I want to focus on all of the elements of what I'm learning. I don't want to go to school for art and be stuck doing Algebra 11 or Calculus. I want to learn about all of the elements of art, and be able to apply what I've learned to create works while under the tutelage of pros. THAT is what I want my money to go towards. Not some piece of paper. The end result of that piece of paper is irrelevant. It's whether or not I'm prepared to bust my ass to get the absolute most out of this experience I'm paying this astronomical cost for. 

I'm not some 5 year old who wants to be an astronaut or a cop, or a doctor. I've been exposed to what I wanted to do for a while now, and it's remained a constant. That's the difference between experimenting and going for something. I'm not gonna go unless I know it's what I want to do. Why lock yourself into something you don't want to do? That's stupid. 

When someone can tell me that they went to the Art Institute of INDIANAPOLIS, gave %110, took advantage of every opportunity while attending, and STILL were unsuccessful and felt scammed straight, THEN I have something to consider. Thus far, I haven't heard from one single person who has done that, so why should I listen to the "It looks like.." and the "I looked at thems?"

Did you experience it? 

People can say what they want. That's the problem with society today. The internet can tell you anything it wants. Where's the truth? Where are the facts?


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## Derrel (Mar 25, 2012)

I believe poster #2 went to an Art Institute branch on the west coast. I could be wrong. Your insistence that ONLY an Art Institute of INDIANAPOLIS graduate (and one who gave it the mythical '110%'-- lol) can give you the advice you seek shows just how seriously out of whack your thought processes are. You have been given much good advice, and yet, your head is still in a hole. Good luck. You're going to need it.


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## Dahrol (Mar 25, 2012)

I believe poster #2 didn't elaborate on his experience, therefore, there isn't any "much good advice" I've been given yet.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Mar 25, 2012)

:shock:




Well, seems your mind is made up.


Have fun drawing Tippy.
Or photographing him, or whatever.


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## cgipson1 (Mar 25, 2012)

I won't say anything more... but you are discounting a massive amount of experience and knowledge here. The very fact that you can't find anyone who can say good things about the Art Institutes should be warning enough...

Did you see my post on the statistics for "For Profit" schools?  They only enroll 12% of the student body for the US.. yet are responsible for 50% of Defaulted Student Loans that never get paid back. Doesn't that tell you something? It should! I was hoping to keep you from being one of that "50%"! 

 I also did some research on Ivy Tech (which I believe is the communitry college you tried).. they have more GOOD reviews than bad.. where as AI has more BAD reviews than good.

Good luck.... and I hope you don't look back someday and think to yourself "I wish I had listened!"


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## Dahrol (Mar 25, 2012)

If morons are willing to take chances of investing thousands into lottery tickets and gambling, I'm willing to invest 46K into something that has as much chance paying off as any other "degree." 

If I've given that "mythical" 110 percent, and I got scammed, then hey, I can be the first reviewer to not be full of ****, and have something to review, because I did what I signed up to do, and was lied to. 

Half-ass anything in life, and you're gonna be disappointed. 

Justsayin.


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## Tee (Mar 25, 2012)

Dahrol said:


> Anybody who still believes that little piece of paper they call a "degree" is actually worth something is still living in the 90's. The government has tricked us into believing that with that standard education, anything is possible. It's a lie, and I see it every single day.



So...you're kinda contradicting yourself.  If you don't need a piece of paper to get a job in life then why are you dropping 46K on an AA?  I think it's fan-freakin-tastic you're going to photography school (I'm even a little jealous) but I and others are suggesting you to research around and find one with a better reputation and better bang for your buck.


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## Dahrol (Mar 25, 2012)

Tee said:


> Dahrol said:
> 
> 
> > Anybody who still believes that little piece of paper they call a "degree" is actually worth something is still living in the 90's. The government has tricked us into believing that with that standard education, anything is possible. It's a lie, and I see it every single day.
> ...



There's nothing contradictory about what I said. I specifically stated that I'm in it for the experience, making the most of what I'm offered, and making the right connections, not for the degree. A degree is just a little something extra you throw on top of what you study. I want the experience. 

In actuality, it's about what you can do, and if the workforce won't accept it, then you have to be creative. Anyone going to college runs that risk in this day and age. Degree doesn't promise diddly squat.


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## cgipson1 (Mar 25, 2012)

Dahrol said:


> If morons are willing to take chances of investing thousands into lottery tickets and gambling, I'm willing to invest 46K into something that has as much chance paying off as any other "degree."
> 
> If I've given that "mythical" 0, and I got scammed, then hey, I can be the first reviewer to not be full of ****, and have something to review, because I did what I signed up to do, and was lied to.
> 
> ...



Lottery tickets are an excellent comparison here..  since only one out a billion actually wins anything.


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## Dahrol (Mar 25, 2012)

And yet still people throw money into it hoping they're gonna be that "lucky winner." 

Life in itself is a gamble, which is why you have to put your all into anything you do.


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## cgipson1 (Mar 25, 2012)

Dahrol said:


> And yet still people throw money into it hoping they're gonna be that "lucky winner."
> 
> Life in itself is a gamble, *which is why you have to put your all into anything you do*.



But you aren't! You are taking the easy way.. with a school that tells you what you want to hear. That will not provide you with more than a elementary education in photography (and only that.. unlike a well rounded general education). You could teach yourself what they (AI) will teach you! 

You aren't willing to look at better schools... or work as hard as you would be required to at a better school... or you wouldn't be looking at a tech school.

There are probably AREN'T ANY happy graduates to tell you that Rainbows and Flowers story you want to hear! *Can that school provide reference to happy, employed students? IF NOT... you should reconsider!*


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## CCericola (Mar 25, 2012)

If you really want to go to the Art Istitute then go. But don't get mad when you can't get a job and have massive education debt. When I was looking at schools I took the AI Philadelphia tour. It was like going to a vacation time share presentation. High pressure sales and very little insight into the actual program. It is a degree mill and when I hired designers I usually passed over the AI applicants. In my experience, the AI graduates were people who had money but couldn't get into a decent art school or 4 year university. It doesn't matter which AI you go to. They are all the same. My old co-worker went to AI Pitt for photography and works in a print lab for minimum wage. 

The "networking" aspect of AI is a sales tool and not a reality. Successful pros do not have time to regurgitate the AI curriculum to a bunch of people dumb enough to go to AI. Your professors are average at best and need the money from AI to survive. AI doesn't really teach you photography. There is a lot of "figure it out for yourself". They teach you how to bullsh*t you way into the field and give you just enough knowledge to make you appear that you know what you are doing.  

I would suggest you try to actually get into a real art school if you don't want a traditional 4 year college/university


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## pgriz (Mar 25, 2012)

Ok, let's step back a bit and talk about how your getting that associate degree will help you to make a living.  If you are going to be working for someone, maybe you need to find out what criteria "they" have for hiring people.  If you are planning to run your own business, then there's a lot more to running the business than taking photographs.   It's been discussed in the business thread on this forum what many feel are the minimum criteria for running their own business.  You may want to look at that.

The assertion by you that you will be applying yourself 110% is fine - that's one way of getting ahead.  But some of your other statements that you don't want to spend learning "albegra or calculus" tells me that you don't yet appreciate that knowledge is NOT a linear process - it's called broadening your horizons and giving you a better handle on what's actually going on around you.  As for the people who have degrees and don't have jobs - it's usually not the problem of education, but their application of what they have learned.  There are, for example lots of arts majors that are on poverty row.  And there are also arts majors who went through the same classes that are making lots of money.  What's the difference?  the ones that are making money are looking for fulfilling a need that someone has, and have positioned themselves as the best choice to fulfil that need.  The others who have the same education but aren't successful, are usually expecting that their "degree" is the key.  It's not.

Ultimately, it's your money and it's your life.  We can't tell you what the secret to success is for you.  But we can share at least some life experience.  Two years before you were born, an author named Stephen R. Covey wrote a book called "The 7 habits of highly effective people".  It is worth your time to look it up and to understand the lessons it represents.  The first three principles in that book are:
1) be proactive,
2) begin with the end in mind, and
3) Put first things first.

I've got the feeling you're past prinicple 1.  But you may benefit from principle 2.  Assume you have received your associate degree.  Now what?  How will that degree help you with the next step?  Do you know what that next step will be?  If you are not sure, then have that Associate Dean that is pulling for you, to put you in touch with people who have graduated from the program 5 years ago.  Talk to them and find out what makes them effective now.  Find out how their degree or training helped them.  And decide if you see yourself being one of the people who you are talking to.  If that "end" is interesting for you, then by all means go.  But do try and figure out where you will be at the end of the process.


----------



## cepwin (Mar 25, 2012)

Sounds like a rip-off to me.   He'd probably be better off going to an established community college (part time) and take some business and art type classes (the business classes will be very helpful in running his business) and as take the rest and as someone suggested spend it on equipment, etc and start shooting.  Going to a state school with a good photography or related program which *requires* some business courses as part as others have suggested is an even better idea. Plus, such a school would have better resources to help them get their first job, etc. when they graducate.


----------



## MTVision (Mar 25, 2012)

Dahrol said:
			
		

> If morons are willing to take chances of investing thousands into lottery tickets and gambling, I'm willing to invest 46K into something that has as much chance paying off as any other "degree."
> 
> If I've given that "mythical" 110 percent, and I got scammed, then hey, I can be the first reviewer to not be full of ****, and have something to review, because I did what I signed up to do, and was lied to.
> 
> ...



Have you looked at any college review sites? Where real students post their comments?
I just saw a couple reviews and every student said it was useless and they transferred out. Unfortunately none of the work they did there transferred to another school. 

You're are going to do whatever you want but really....you want to gamble 46k? 46k for a degree for a profession that doesn't require a degree. Why not find an established professional and apprentice with them or something. You will probably learn more about photography and the business aspect. 46k will take a long ass time to pay off and for what? For the hopes that you'll make it in photography?


----------



## Sw1tchFX (Mar 25, 2012)

*Dahrol, Don't go to AI. I went to AI Seattle for a year, half the program. *

This was my experience in a nutshell:

-I had some GREAT teachers. Easily some of the best that i've ever had. Most were working professionals who really knew their sh*t. Two of which had degrees from Brooks themselves.  
-We had frustrating (in a good way), and challenging technical assignments for newbies. For example, shoot a table setting, a knife, fork, and spoon. The tongs on the fork, the blade on the knife, and everything but the center of the spoon had to be white. Turn in a 4X5inch chrome. I remember staying up late at night, and spending hundreds of dollars on polaroids.  
-We had a cage with generally up to date equipment and a big studio full of Speedotron's. 

However..

-I also had some of the worst teachers i've ever had in my life there.
-The assignments, although technically challenging, are stale, and only teach you the technical aspect. Only 1 art history class was required, there was _nothing_ in the curriculum about theory or concept. Ask a teacher their opinion on New Topographics, or Cindy Sherman's work on the representation of women in society, and they'll have no idea what you're talking about. 
-We ran out of white seamless, it took 3 weeks to replace it because corporate in Pittsburgh wouldn't let us buy a $50 roll from Glazers. 
-One of my friends didn't have running water in his student housing apt. for 2 weeks. Forced him to move out, and the school refused to take responsibility for not providing such a basic service.
-Speaking of student housing, 2bd 2bath, 4 people. $900/month _each_. And this is in a 100 year old apt. building. 
-The work that generally comes out of there is generally technically sound, but lacks artistic backing or ambition. It's one thing to choose to avoid that, but it's another to be ignorant to it. 
-My particular class started out with 70 people, two years later 6 graduated. 64 people left by the 6th term, including me. This was par for the course, 7 people graduated the year before. 



Now ask yourself this,

-What do you think you're going to do with an AA? Or even a Bachelor's at that? Photographer's aren't doctors or lawyers, they do _not_ need any certification to practice. An AA will get you a management job at the Olive Garden, If you plan to teach in your more advanced years, you need a Masters if it's at the collegiate level. _Nobody goes to Art school to teach High School Art/Photography_.
-How are you going to network with people you may work with in the future when 90% of the class will drop out?
-What do you see yourself doing in 2 years after you go to school? 
-What do you see yourself doing in 2 years if you bought/rented high end gear, volunteered internships at studios and photographed ever single one of your facebook friends?
-Of the two questions above, which would provide you with more paid work in the future after you cut your teeth?

These are questions I ask myself too. I chose the path of education. But it's like that Rod Stewart song "I wish that I knew what I know now...When I was younger.." If you have _any_ shred of ambition, intrigue, or desire to learn how to be a photographer, you don't need to go to school for it, you just need to challenge yourself by shooting things you don't feel comfortable with.._alot_, and networking with people who are not photographers.


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## Tony S (Mar 25, 2012)

Might be better off joining the PPA or even it's state affiliate and going through their education program to get "master photographer" certification. At least with that you would get "real" world contacts. Shoot, I bet you could contact several members through their member directory to see what they think about AI Indianapolis.

they can't even get accredited by the group that accredits private colleges and trade schools, the first PDF lists accredited schools by state... http://www.acics.org/search.aspx?qu...chfor=all&orderby=id&orderdirection=ascending

 If you are going to go to an arts school at least go to one that is recognized nationally and accredited.... http://www.brooks.edu/


Your reply to everyone here reminds me a lot of my son who would ask something but if the answer was not what he wanted to hear then he felt he knew better.


Good luck.... I think you are really going to need it.


----------



## Dahrol (Mar 25, 2012)

I have an orientation on Thursday where I get to meet with students, take a tour, and ask a buncha questions. 

What would you guys "advise" I do with that?


----------



## SCraig (Mar 25, 2012)

Dahrol said:


> I have an orientation on Thursday where I get to meet with students, take a tour, and ask a buncha questions.
> 
> What would you guys "advise" I do with that?


Long lunch at McDonalds.  It will give you plenty of time to learn to say "Would you like fries with that?"


----------



## Dahrol (Mar 25, 2012)

Maybelline Te
Class Of 2009; Design The Art Institute of Charlotte
Employer: SNUG
Job Title: Creative Director
"Learning is an every day event. [My education] balanced my creative process with theory."

Lanie Alabanza-Barcena
Class Of 2004; Graphic Design The Art Institute of California &#8212; San Diego
Employer: Hellz Bellz
Job Title: Founder and Creative Director
"Not only did I learn computer applications needed in the real world, I also learned a lot about the proper steps when going through the creative process."

Ciara Dietz
Class Of 2011; Interior Design Miami International University of Art & Design
Employer: Rolland, DelValle, & Bradley, Inc.
Job Title: Interior Designer
"I enjoy creating unique spaces for our clients&#8212;that are not only functional and efficient but also beautiful."

Alfredo Flores
Class Of 2010; Media Arts The Art Institute of California &#8212; Los Angeles
Employer: Paramount Studios
Job Title: Video Production/Camera Operator
"I feel like I am just having fun. It's not work."

Belen Horta
Class Of 2003; Media Arts The Art Institute of California &#8212; Los Angeles
Employer: Mattel, Inc.
Job Title: Lead Graphic Artist
"I work with an amazing group of people. We make magic every day and it's amazing the amount of work that comes through our department and group."

..and so on. Fake success stories perhaps? 

http://www.artinstitutes.edu/career-services/top-employers.aspx

Fake statistics too?


----------



## CCericola (Mar 25, 2012)

I think those people would have made it no matter where they went to school and AI is exploiting their success even though it may or may not have anything to do with going to AI. I also see no photographers on that list. A camera operator only needs an HS diploma and join the union. They have served you the cool aide and you are drinking it up like a thirsty horse. Go to the orientation but bring a parent or adult that is not taken in by slick marketing.


----------



## cgipson1 (Mar 25, 2012)

Dahrol said:


> Maybelline Te
> Class Of 2009; Design The Art Institute of Charlotte
> Employer: SNUG
> Job Title: Creative Director
> ...



Well.. they are FOR PROFIT.. and they are partially owned by a big conglomerate with a history of questionable marketing (Goldman/Sachs).. just to make money!

Please read the following.. maybe you might believe something


http://www.bendbulletin.com/article/2011
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-12-28
http://www.cnbc.com/id/38412121/Greenber
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/11/opinio
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-05
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10361/111
http://www.wcnc.com/on-tv/For-profit-tra
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-12-09
http://articles.philly.com/2011-03-25/ne
The Art Institutes: Legitimate Photo Schools or Accessories to Fraud?
Perdido Street School: QUESTION: Who Owns For-Profit Diploma Mill The Art Institutes?


----------



## SCraig (Mar 25, 2012)

Nobody here is going to tell you how to run your life.  If you are so infatuated with this place then by all means go.  Spend your $46k, get your degree, and then you can hang it in your office and look it and remember the good times.

What people here ARE trying to tell you is that you are quite possibly making the largest single mistake of your life so far.  This is not based on rhetoric pasted on a web site by people who want you to pay them money for the next couple of decades it is based on many, many years of real-life experience.  Every one of us here has seen kids go off to college with stars in their eyes and every one of us here has seen the look of reality in those same eyes several years later.  We aren't telling you what you want to hear simply because we have seen different far too many times.

Do what you want to do.  If this place means that much to you then by all means go and I hope it works out for you.  I will tell you this though:  My wife worked at one of those places (not that particular one) for a few years and I wouldn't send a dog to it.

Best of luck in your future.


----------



## MTVision (Mar 25, 2012)

CCericola said:
			
		

> I think those people would have made it no matter where they went to school and AI is exploiting their success even though it may or may not have anything to do with going to AI. I also see no photographers on that list. A camera operator only needs an HS diploma and join the union. They have served you the cool aide and you are drinking it up like a thirsty horse. Go to the orientation but bring a parent or adult that is not taken in by slick marketing.



I agree. That first person listed - Maybelline Te already had a bachelors degree in business before she ever went to the art institute. 

.


----------



## cgipson1 (Mar 25, 2012)

Dahrol... I would love to hear your comments on the links I posted.... please!

again:


http://www.bendbulletin.com/article/2011&#8230;
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-12-28&#8230;
http://www.cnbc.com/id/38412121/Greenber&#8230;
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/11/opinio&#8230;
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-05&#8230;
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10361/111&#8230;
http://www.wcnc.com/on-tv/For-profit-tra&#8230;
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-12-09&#8230;
http://articles.philly.com/2011-03-25/ne&#8230;
The Art Institutes: Legitimate Photo Schools or Accessories to Fraud?
Perdido Street School: QUESTION: Who Owns For-Profit Diploma Mill The Art Institutes?


----------



## Dahrol (Mar 25, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> Dahrol... I would love to hear your comments on the links I posted.... please!
> 
> again:
> 
> ...



http://nexusresearch.org/1/NexusStudy8-31-10.pdf What's your take on this?


----------



## Tee (Mar 25, 2012)

Dahrol, in another thread I mentioned the poor business practices of the Pittsburgh branch and you chastised me for bringing up another city and not Indy.  YET, you quote success stories from all over.  Knock yourself out, man.  Like I said, I'm tickled that you're going to photography school...just pick one that doesn't have a long history of being shady.  Have you looked into other schools?  How about bonafide schools in NYC?  What better way to go big or go home than going to school in NYC!


----------



## Dahrol (Mar 25, 2012)

Tee said:


> Dahrol, in another thread I mentioned the poor business practices of the Pittsburgh branch and you chastised me for bringing up another city and not Indy.  YET, you quote success stories from all over.



Because I've still heard no negative stories from those who attended the one in Indy who completed the program and gave it their all. All the negatives are from the ones who dropped out, who likely half-assed their way through it, or from the ones who attended the schools that were actually busted for the fraud (i.e. Pittsburgh)


----------



## CCericola (Mar 25, 2012)

Dahrol said:


> Tee said:
> 
> 
> > Dahrol, in another thread I mentioned the poor business practices of the Pittsburgh branch and you chastised me for bringing up another city and not Indy.  YET, you quote success stories from all over.
> ...


Maybe because there are none. Maybe because All AI schools are the SAME. They are like the McDonalds of trade schools. No matter what city you choose, it doesn't matter. They are all the same!


----------



## Dahrol (Mar 25, 2012)

CCericola said:


> Dahrol said:
> 
> 
> > Tee said:
> ...



First sentence has more hopes of being right than the second.  

That's like saying the entire nationwide chain of McDonalds is fraudulent because a McDonalds in Los Angeles gained a bad rep.


----------



## ClickAddict (Mar 25, 2012)

Is someone who gives it their 110% and realises the school is not giving 110% back going to stick around for 4 years or do you think they would drop out to spend their time in a better way?  I think you are asking for something which by your own definition might not exist.  Kind of like asking for anyone who doesn't believe in mythical beings and leaves cookies for Santa Clause.


----------



## Dahrol (Mar 25, 2012)

ClickAddict said:


> Is someone who gives it their 110% and realises the school is not giving 110% back going to stick around for 4 years or do you think they would drop out to spend their time in a better way?  I think you are asking for something which by your own definition might not exist.  Kind of like asking for anyone who doesn't believe in mythical beings and leaves cookies for Santa Clause.



2 years, not 4. 

And if someone is giving 110% but the school hasn't given 110%, then why isn't that showing up on any reviews? It's always "I tried it and then quit" or "I heard it was a scam" or "I had to stop going because I couldn't afford it." 

Therefore, if nobody has given 110%, there is no way of gauging whether the school gave 110% back, because those who have given that negative review likely never even gave 75%. 

Those are the ones who would rather try to let the degree do the talking, and then are disappointed later when they find that a degree doesn't mean anything in this day and age. They're a dime a dozen.


----------



## apples (Mar 25, 2012)

Ive been watching this and I am amused. I don't know about AI, but i'd rather go to a conventional 4 yr uni rather than a trade school for 2 yrs where its all work and no "experience."

one of my biggest college regrets is not taking classes that put me out of my comfort zone (like photography, drama, art hist; but i did take pysc and found it to be a total waste of time...), but then again, i was very career minded in my major...

He's somewhat right in one aspect, if you read a neg review, always put it in context of that reviews accomplishments and efforts. its like that one kid that fails eng101 and gives the prof a bad rating because he sucked at it. goes both ways though, so if its a protog and he says it sucks, then it sucks.


----------



## Dahrol (Mar 25, 2012)




----------



## Bitter Jeweler (Mar 25, 2012)

Well, it sounds like you are completely sold on this. Now I wonder why you even asked.


----------



## CCericola (Mar 25, 2012)

How about this? Go to AI then in 2 years we'll see if you can get my order right in the drive thru.


----------



## OscarWilde (Mar 25, 2012)

Seriously? That's like two years of med school... and you can come out of med school and (after a residency) make half a million dollars a year... Why would ANYONE pay that much for schooling in photography? Use the internet, and practice!! Guaranteed ALL of the information you are going to receive in that program is available SOMEWHERE in books, or on the internet, or any number of sources. Which you could use for free (ie. the library...) and then use your money to rent studio space or buy a fantastic camera, or both...... and end up with A LOT of hands on hours that will teach you more than you'd ever learn when you can't focus because you are to worried about defaulting on the worlds most over priced school loan....

I can't even believe this is being discussed... who would do this? Learning photography can be a worthwhile endeavor; but they won't be able to teach you anything in that course that is going to make you a truly phenomenal photographer. 

You have to discover that in yourself... 

$46,000 dollars.... lol


----------



## Majeed Badizadegan (Mar 25, 2012)

Dahrol. Stop the obnoxious clinging to these mystical reviews that haven't /had said this or that. You're really going to ignore the collective voice of this forum, among us lifetime hobbyist, semi-pros and current/retired pros? 

Seriously, stop thinking for just a moment. Stop drooling over this art school that's going to gouge you and outfit you with a useless degree. Stop your forward momentum:



We stopped now? Good. 

 I want you to imagine yourself in this alternate universe where you've somehow managed to escape the black hole of AA... Here we go: 

Now, imagine yourself going out tomorrow and getting a professional camera (not that crappy entry level NIKON they're charging a $45,000 markup on). 



You've also bought yourself some fast glass, a nice tripod , and ocf, and all the gear a little boy could ever dream of. You're 10k deep, and its you and your camera against the world.

You go outside and start taking pictures. Friends, family, strangers . You Study, read, post online for feedback, get better fast. You draw inspiration from pros, you listen to experts.

You Take your rabid enthusiasm, develop some real world skill that actually matters, build up your portfolio and learn learn learn. 

Then, once you're really good (I've seen a lot of your pics and you've got a looooong way to go, no offense), then you can figure out the business side of this thing.. which is a whole different animal.

Flash forward two years. look at you now! Very little debt in comparison, you've got great gear and a ton of real world experience.

Doesn't that sound nice?


----------



## Tony S (Mar 25, 2012)

Something must be screaming in the back of your mind that this isn't right, or you wouldn't be trying so hard to convince people here that it's a good thing...  we are  not the ones that need convincing.

  Spend your 46K...... the economy needs stimulating.


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## Dahrol (Mar 25, 2012)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> Well, it sounds like you are completely sold on this. Now I wonder why you even asked.



I didn't. 

cgipson1 wanted to make the topic, and I told him "sure."


----------



## mommy-medic (Mar 25, 2012)

Has anyone mentioned that you are spending THAT much for what you could learn here on this forum for *gasp* FREE? Seriously. Do some searches, read some threads, check out the feedback members leave others. Youll learn more about exposure, compensation, light, post processing, etc by simply paying attention and (your own words) doing what you love. 

Think about this- why do they have such a high drop-out rate? Maybe people come to their senses, get tired of getting ripped off, and abandon ship while they can. 

Oh, and for $400 you can have my old Nikon DSLR. It's a D40 with 18,000 actuations and going strong.


----------



## Dahrol (Mar 25, 2012)

Rotanimod said:


> Dahrol. Stop the obnoxious clinging to these mystical reviews that haven't /had said this or that. You're really going to ignore the collective voice of this forum, among us lifetime hobbyist, semi-pros and current/retired pros?
> 
> Seriously, stop thinking for just a moment. Stop drooling over this art school that's going to gouge you and outfit you with a useless degree. Stop your forward momentum:
> 
> ...



no


----------



## Dahrol (Mar 25, 2012)

CCericola said:


> How about this? Go to AI then in 2 years we'll see if you can get my order right in the drive thru.



k


----------



## MTVision (Mar 25, 2012)

Dahrol said:
			
		

> no



http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090306155544AAhbXEd

Make sure you read the other 4 comments. 2 people who are graduates of the art institute of Indianapolis commented and one parent of a former student commented


----------



## Dahrol (Mar 25, 2012)

Tony S said:


> Something must be screaming in the back of your mind that this isn't right, or you wouldn't be trying so hard to convince people here that it's a good thing...  we are  not the ones that need convincing.
> 
> Spend your 46K...... the economy needs stimulating.



k


----------



## ClickAddict (Mar 25, 2012)

Dahrol said:


> 2 years, not 4.



2  / 4  6 8   whatever.  Argument remains the same



Dahrol said:


> And if someone is giving 110% but the school hasn't given 110%, then why isn't that showing up on any reviews? It's always "I tried it and then quit" or "I heard it was a scam" or "I had to stop going because I couldn't afford it."



Tried and quit = ???  Not enough info.  They quit cause they goofed off and were failing = they didn't give 110%, but they quit cause they didn't like what the school was teaching them falls under the school not giving back 110%
"It was a scam" = School did not give 110%. 
"Had to stop cause of cash"  = useless review.  Doesn't say whther it was good or not.



Dahrol said:


> Therefore, if nobody has given 110%, there is no way of gauging whether the school gave 110% back, because those who have given that negative review likely never even gave 75%.
> 
> Those are the ones who would rather try to let the degree do the talking, and then are disappointed later when they find that a degree doesn't mean anything in this day and age. They're a dime a dozen.



...soo by this, you're assuming that if they gave a negative review they did not give 110%.  Again, you are asking us to find something that you are trying not to find and will argue away.

Your right though, you should ignore all the comments from everyone here since we are SOOOO invested in this compared to the positive reviews found on the website of the company who will be getting your money.


----------



## Dahrol (Mar 25, 2012)

MTVision said:


> Dahrol said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> _*"There is NO campus to speak of"
> 
> Here is a link to a photo of the campus? - http://thislifeissparklingdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/4867706514_7bfd1a6d20_z.jpg
> 
> (EDIT: Photo removed per TPF FAQ's, link to photo left instead. KmH)*_


----------



## Dahrol (Mar 25, 2012)

ClickAddict said:


> Dahrol said:
> 
> 
> > 2 years, not 4.
> ...



exactly


----------



## mommy-medic (Mar 25, 2012)

Please don't feed the troll. It's not worth it.


----------



## Majeed Badizadegan (Mar 25, 2012)

Dahrol, I'm just going to say what everyone is thinking: You're hopelessly naive and stubborn. 

But luckily, only you will be forced to live with the consequences. 

Adios, mate. Don't let reality hit your a$$ on the way out.


----------



## Majeed Badizadegan (Mar 25, 2012)

mommy-medic said:


> Please don't feed the troll. It's not worth it.



You're right. I'm about 50/50 right now this guy is a full blown troll. 

What else would explain this level of stupidity/ignorance/arrogance?


----------



## ClickAddict (Mar 25, 2012)

Dahrol said:


> ClickAddict said:
> 
> 
> > Dahrol said:
> ...



exactly????   Maybe it's late and I'm missing something , but I thought my sarcasm was pretty obvious.  Either you are just not getting it or are trolling.  Either way, I'm done.


----------



## cgipson1 (Mar 25, 2012)

Dahrol said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> > Dahrol... I would love to hear your comments on the links I posted.... please!
> ...



You claim to be familiar with politics, yes? Then you know what "SPIN" is, right... trying to shift public opinion with bullchit! That is my take on Nexus... pay em enough, they will prove YOUR point...


----------



## ClickAddict (Mar 25, 2012)

From the posts above mine, which popped up while I was typing,  obviously I wasn't the only one thinking it.  Good.


----------



## Majeed Badizadegan (Mar 25, 2012)

Dahrol said:


> no


 


Dahrol said:


> k


 


Dahrol said:


> k



AA deserves you and your tuition, and you deserve AA . 

What an amazing business model AA has, capitalizing on naive fools who can't even help themselves.


----------



## Dahrol (Mar 25, 2012)

I honestly stopped caring a little while ago.


----------



## MTVision (Mar 25, 2012)

What exactly are you trying to argue?? There are over 50 business in the "pyramids" with the art institute.

I really hope you didn't believe that picture was the campus.


----------



## Majeed Badizadegan (Mar 25, 2012)

Dahrol said:


> I honestly stopped caring a little while ago.



Good, then go away. We promise not to laugh at you until you're out the door.



....





Just kidding, we're already laughing.


----------



## cgipson1 (Mar 25, 2012)

Dahrol said:


> Bitter Jeweler said:
> 
> 
> > Well, it sounds like you are completely sold on this. Now I wonder why you even asked.
> ...



Yea.. I was trying to help.. but I think it is a lost cause! Let us know when you default on your student loans, OK? So we can say "we told you so!"

I am placing Dahrol on IGNORE.. I am tired of dealing with this....


----------



## Dahrol (Mar 25, 2012)

MTVision said:


> What exactly are you trying to argue?? There are over 50 business in the "pyramids" with the art institute.
> 
> I really hope you didn't believe that picture was the campus.



...uhhh....perhaps I actually went there and toured the entire building with the admissions director?


----------



## mommy-medic (Mar 25, 2012)

Poor kid isn't even suited for product photography, because even that involves people skills. *facepalm* I know I certainly wouldn't want to be a potential "client" with his attitude! Yikes!


----------



## MTVision (Mar 25, 2012)

Rotanimod said:
			
		

> You're right. I'm about 50/50 right now this guy is a full blown troll.
> 
> What else would explain this level of stupidity/ignorance/arrogance?



Being an immature teen would explain a lot


----------



## Dahrol (Mar 25, 2012)

Rotanimod said:


> Dahrol said:
> 
> 
> > I honestly stopped caring a little while ago.
> ...



cool


----------



## MTVision (Mar 25, 2012)

Dahrol said:
			
		

> ...uhhh....perhaps I actually went there and toured the entire building with the admissions director?



Really?  So the that whole picture is the campus?? Where do all the other business fit in?


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## mommy-medic (Mar 25, 2012)

stop replying- all we are doing is adding to his post count.


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## Dahrol (Mar 25, 2012)

mommy-medic said:


> Poor kid isn't even suited for product photography, because even that involves people skills. *facepalm* I know I certainly wouldn't want to be a potential "client" with his attitude! Yikes!



To have people skills calls for actually dealing with real people...


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## cgipson1 (Mar 25, 2012)

and by the way.. They said you have the "EYE"! They lied! Your photos don't don't demonstrate that at all! Sorry!


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## Majeed Badizadegan (Mar 25, 2012)

Dahrol said:


> cool



No, bro. What's "cool" is that you have "the eye" according to your AA recruiter. Your last 5 recent threads:

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/people-photography/277921-congressman-mayor.html

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/general-gallery/277924-indiana-governors-office.html

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/people-photography/277919-u-s-congressman-speaking.html

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/nature-wildlife/277727-tired-dog.html

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/landscape-cityscape/278021-2012-superbowl-sign-indy.html

So is it just AA, or would you consider branching out to private tutoring? If I walk you around a pretty building and tell you "you're just cut out for this kid, you've got the eye" can I have your $46k?


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## Dahrol (Mar 25, 2012)

MTVision said:


> Dahrol said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



First one's the AI (the entire pyramid) the second one's the University of Phoenix, and the third one's a Culinary school. 

The building houses a photography studio, computer labs, classrooms, equipment lockers, culinary classes upstairs, and other student resources and offices related to the school


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## Dahrol (Mar 25, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> and by the way.. They said you have the "EYE"! They lied! Your photos don't don't demonstrate that at all! Sorry!



FINALLY! That's what I've been waiting to hear this entire time!


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## Bossy (Mar 25, 2012)

I started at AI of pittsburgh for a photography tech associates and all the credits transferred to the local community college fine. I liked the classes, learned a lot, and they wrapped about 1500  worth of software into the financial aid so that worked 

ETA-- I did the online courses, and I only did half a year or so.  I have no idea how much it cost because I didn't pay for it.​


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## MTVision (Mar 25, 2012)

Dahrol said:
			
		

> First one's the AI (the entire pyramid) the second one's the University of Phoenix, and the third one's a Culinary school.
> 
> The building houses a photography studio, computer labs, classrooms, equipment lockers, culinary classes upstairs, and other student resources and offices related to the school



Really?? It says online that Ai has the 1st and 2nd floors of pyramid 1 and 2. Maybe they expanded more. But you failed to mention where all these business fit it (as well as all the available space)

Company Name	 	 
Adayana	 	 
American Academy of Osteopathy	 	 
Art Institute of Indianapolis	 	 
AT&T	 	 
Axis Home Health Care, LLC	 	 
Big Red, Inc.	 	 
Bluegreen Vacations Unlimited, Inc.	 	 
Breeden Legal	 	 
Cadre Computer Resources, Co.	 	 
Cain Brothers & Co, LLC	 	 
Cassidy Turley	 	 
Crenshaw Rinehart & Associates	 	 
Crowne Castle	 	 
Cypress Communications	 	 
Eagle Land Title, LLC	 	 
Federal Express	 	 
Firebelly Technologies, Inc.	 	 
Frank Leyes & Associates	 	 
Great Expectations	 	 
Hoosier Broadcasting Corporation	 	 
Hoover Financial Advisors	 	 
Indiana Institute of Technology	 	 
Indiana Ready Mix Concrete Association	 	 
InSphere Insurance Solutions	 	 
Jean F. Younger, MA, LMFT	 	 
Kappa Kappa Kappa	 	 
Katzman & Katzman, P.C.	 	 
KX Simulation Technologies	 	 
LANtech Training	 	 
Mahler & Company	 	 
Materials Processing, Inc.	 	 
Midwestern Engineers, Inc.	 	 
National Independent Statistical Service	 	 
National Multiple Sclerosis Society	 	 
NCS Pearson, Inc.	 	 
Northwest Psychological Health Services	 	 
Oasis Cafe	 	 
Pathfinder	 	 
Pediatric Nursing Specialists	 	 
Pharmaceutical Research & Manufacturers of America	 	 
PHI Air Medical	 	 
R&L Transfer, Inc.	 	 
Randall Law Offices, P.C.	 	 
Senex Finanacial Corporation	 	 
Smitson Communications Group, LLC	 	 
Susan G. Komen Foundation	 	 
Symetra Financial Corporation	 	 
Talagy	 	 
Transitions of Indiana	 	


http://www.indypyramids.com/indypyramidstenants.php
United Parcel Services	 	 
Worley Financial Group	 	 
Zark Productions


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## Dahrol (Mar 25, 2012)

Rotanimod said:


> Dahrol said:
> 
> 
> > cool
> ...



sure


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## Dahrol (Mar 25, 2012)

MTVision said:


> Dahrol said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



take a tour


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## OscarWilde (Mar 25, 2012)

Look... you don't have any obligation to listen to ANYONE on this site, or to even care if you do decide to listen. But I will (for my own sanity) try and give you one piece of advice. 

I go to university, and I can tell you that student loans aren't fun. Owing that amount of money to something while not being able to really have a full time job to pay it back isn't fun. And defaulting on a student loan is a SERIOUS deal. So before you take that step look at the whole picture. 

Am I trying to tell you the school is ****? No. Am I trying to tell you not to do it? No. Just step back and figure out whether the juice is worth the squeeze. 

What is this degree going to get you? What is it going to cost you? (and I'm not just referring to money) Where else could you get it? What are the differences? Just know that 46,000 dollars of debt is no joke and there is NO guarantee that you will make decent money as a photographer after. Photography as a career is a difficult field to get in to and a fancy degree doesn't really change that.

People aren't going to look at you differently because you have it; they are going to look at your photos. And you need to know if you are really going to get 46,000 dollars worth of improvement!

Do what you want man; but don't forget to think before you leap!


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## MTVision (Mar 25, 2012)

Dahrol said:
			
		

> take a tour



Maybe you should.


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## Bossy (Mar 25, 2012)

Dahrol, do you have any local colleges/universities that have a photography program? Aside from AI? ​


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## Dahrol (Mar 25, 2012)

MTVision said:


> Dahrol said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



already did


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## OscarWilde (Mar 25, 2012)




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## Dahrol (Mar 25, 2012)

Bossy said:


> Dahrol, do you have any local colleges/universities that have a photography program? Aside from AI?



They all promise the same thing as the AI...


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## Majeed Badizadegan (Mar 25, 2012)

Dahrol, go away please!


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## Dahrol (Mar 25, 2012)

k


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## Bossy (Mar 25, 2012)

Dahrol said:


> Bossy said:
> 
> 
> > Dahrol, do you have any local colleges/universities that have a photography program? Aside from AI?
> ...



Have you toured them as well? There  sometimes *can* be a problem transferring credits if need be, which should be taken into account. FInancially AI doesn't make sense over the other schools, but if money isn't an issue then thats whatever. Lastly you should compare the instructors as well as the actual equipment each one offers, I'm sure those aren't the same in each. One might be better, or have professors in the same line of work that you want to get into that would benefit you more.​


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## Dahrol (Mar 25, 2012)

Bossy said:


> Dahrol said:
> 
> 
> > Bossy said:
> ...



I've gotten advice from several of my friends, some for it, some skeptical, but they agree at the end of the day that college (whatever form it may be) is really what you make of it, that success is determinant upon you, and only you. 

I'm not looking for something that's gonna transfer, and I'm not looking for a degree. I'm looking for the experience. I've said that like 10 times before, but some in this thread don't get the memo, which is why I stopped caring about half of their responses. It's like arguing with a cat with some at this point.   

If I want a 4 year college, then I'm going to go for political science or something that isn't of the arts. That's a distant goal, but not a current one.

Contrary to some of the judgmentally aloof in this thread, I'm not drowning in loans, and the payments are actually fairly manageable. I've been working on this process for close to a month, and nothing is finalized, so if I choose to, I can stop it at any time. 

I've thought it all through, and it's a risk, just like everything else I would decide to do at this point in time. It all depends on how much you believe in your own ability that will determine what success you obtain.

If you can manipulate your environment to suit your goals and achievements, then you succeed not only at what you're trying to accomplish, but at life. 

For that, it takes far more than piece of paper, but an experience that you feel will give you the room and determination to make something fruitful out of that experience.


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## Majeed Badizadegan (Mar 25, 2012)

Dahrol said:


> I've thought it all through, and it's a risk, just like everything else I would decide to do at this point in time.



No, silly, it's not just any old risk. It's a measurably stupid risk that, at it's heart, is basically just a legal scam. 

Maybe those of us in this thread whom you think are "judgmentally aloof" are just tired of your insufferable ignorance. Ever thought of that, smart guy?

You think you're the man with the plan. You're going to manipulate the world to suit you. You're gonna set the world on fire with your Associates from AI. 

Newsflash buddy: you're a sucker.


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## Dahrol (Mar 25, 2012)

k


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## OscarWilde (Mar 25, 2012)

If thats how you feel, the do you even need the schooling? Just take that attitude and get REAL LIfE experience...


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## Majeed Badizadegan (Mar 25, 2012)

Dahrol said:


> k



The truth hurts.


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## Majeed Badizadegan (Mar 25, 2012)

This reminds me of the old saying in poker. 

A "fish" in poker is basically an unexperienced player that's usually easy money for the better players. 

The saying goes:

"If you don't know who the fish at the table is, you are the fish." I don't think Dahrol knows who the fish is.


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## Dahrol (Mar 25, 2012)

Rotanimod said:


> Dahrol said:
> 
> 
> > k
> ...


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## molested_cow (Mar 25, 2012)

I don't know man. It's sounds more like Dahrol fall in love....


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## Dahrol (Mar 25, 2012)

molested_cow said:


> I don't know man. It's sounds more like Dahrol fall in love....



Sure. let's go with that.


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## molested_cow (Mar 25, 2012)

Is she hot?


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## Sw1tchFX (Mar 26, 2012)

Man, I don't know _how_ you can think that Ai gives you a "college experience". *DUDE I F*CKING WENT THERE FOR A YEAR, LISTEN TO WHAT I'M SAYING.* 6 out of the 70 people that started in my particular class graduated. *SIX.* Who do you think you're going to network with? They will either drop out, or do what I did and transfer to another school to finish their education somewhere else. 



Speaking from experience, _learn from my fail_, and *DON'T F*CKING GO TO THE ART INSTITUTE. *If you want a "college experience" where you can network with people, go to a state school. 



I'm done.


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## Dahrol (Mar 26, 2012)

k


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## Majeed Badizadegan (Mar 26, 2012)

Dahrol said:


> k


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## Tony S (Mar 26, 2012)

Four simple letters, thought I'd never suggest this to anyone. NYIP

New York Institute of Photography


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## Bossy (Mar 26, 2012)

The payments seem manageable? Meaning you aren't looking into or getting financial aid and grants? What your AI is is $766 a credit. Thats a lot for a trade school. You may be young enough where money isn't an issue, but now is not the time to get bogged down with loans, the real world is sucking hard right now. 
As for networking, you'll be in class with a bunch of people as inexperienced as yourself. If you want to network, look into a mentorship, even if that means you have to move from your small town. 

You seem kinda weird about this whole thing, honestly. I asked if you compared schools and you went off on some rant about experience blah blah that I didn't really read. I didn't have an option of a brick and morter college when I started in AI, and then I got pissed because they refused to let me take the photography and art classes I wanted and insisted I take english/math blah blah. If you're serious about not caring about the degree, then you're not going to want to waste your time/money on fundamentals and just do the stuff relevant to your trade. You can't do that with AI, you can with community college.​


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## cgipson1 (Mar 26, 2012)

Guys.. I apologize for opening this thread! I was trying to help the guy out... keep him from getting ripped off! but WOW!

*MODs.. please close this thread!*


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## IByte (Mar 26, 2012)

cgipson1 said:
			
		

> Guys.. I apologize for opening this thread! I was trying to help the guy out... keep him from getting ripped off! but WOW!
> 
> MODs.. please close this thread!



Sounds like tough love I mean if they still want to pursue this my only advice is search other schools and compare. 46k seems a little too much for a trade school.  I hope they realize that money can be invested in a community college decent equipment which should last way past a university.  Best of luck.


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## ghache (Mar 26, 2012)

LOL OWNED.

My tuition was about 9 000 for 4 years. that was in 2002-2006 for a 3 year college degree in ITSEC and another extra year to get drunk.


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## Tee (Mar 26, 2012)

It's his 46k not mine and I didn't lose a wink of sleep over it. What strikes me as odd is his refusal to look at alternative schools offering degrees in photography. Heck, he could go to FIT which is part of SUNY in New York City as an out of state resident for less than what Ai is charging.


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## Buckster (Mar 26, 2012)

I read every post to this point, plus those in the other thread that got locked (though admittedly, my eyes may have glazed over a few times, and a few people around here are on my ignore list, so I didn't see those posts, but still...).

Overall, I think it's great that people are so concerned with the wellbeing of others that they'll practically have a meltdown over it - that shows they care, and we could all do with more people caring about each other, including caring about complete strangers.  Still, though I tried, I was unable to _actually _care one way or the other what the OP does or how he spends his money or what it will or won't do for him in the end.

By the way, was it determined somewhere that he doesn't come from a well-to-do family where this money thing is essentially chicken-feed and just not really an issue?  If so, my apologies for missing that little tidbit, not that it really matters to me, tbh.


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## OscarWilde (Mar 26, 2012)

We're all just jealous because he has the "eye" and we don't...


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## tirediron (Mar 26, 2012)

*Okay, this train wreck is over.  Move along please... nothing to see here.*


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