# Seeking a budget light kit - I welcome your recommendations



## Dark (Aug 22, 2014)

Greetings,

I'm in the market for a lighting kit. In time, I will upgrade to a more high-end model or simply add-on with better components, but for now, my pre-tax maximum price point is set at no more than $349.99 (w/U.S. tax that comes out $381). Ideally I'd prefer a complete 3-light kit, but that may be unrealistic and I'd much rather have a great (or really good) 2-light kit than a cheaply made 3-light knock-off. I'm also open to building my own, so long as the total combined price for the individual pieces stay within my budget. Either Strobes or Continuous are fine as well (no debating the issue please!).

I'll mostly be shooting indoor/outdoor portraits and since this forum is filled with people who have their own studios, I'm seeking your opinion on what kits/pieces are worthy and which I should avoid like the plague. With that said, please keep in mind my budget. Anything over $349, as either a complete set or purchased separately, is out.



What type of lighting kit do you use (2 lights, 3 lights, brand, continuous, strobes, etc.)?
How much did it cost?
How long have you had it?
Do you have examples of the work you've done using it?

Help is most definitely appreciated. Thank you to all in advance.


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## tirediron (Aug 22, 2014)

What is your rationale for wanting continuous lighting over strobed?  Personally, I feel that all continuous lighting should be avoided like the plague.


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## Dark (Aug 22, 2014)

tirediron said:


> What is your rationale for wanting continuous lighting over strobed?  Personally, I feel that all continuous lighting should be avoided like the plague.



I have a film background and I shoot shorts as well as interviews, so a dual lighting set-up (for photography and video) is ideal for me. I have nothing against strobes, as I own a Canon Speedlite 430ex ii which I use for my outdoors and event stuff. The thing is, I'm starting conceptual work on a project where I'll be interviewing people *and* shooting their portraits. A continuous lighting kit would allow me to do both without switching anything out; whereas a strobe kit won't.


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## tirediron (Aug 22, 2014)

Okay, that makes sense.  To be honest, I don't think any of those lights will do the job very well...  I think you're going to be hard pressed to find a suitable solution within your budget.


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## Derrel (Aug 22, 2014)

Continuous lights like that are almost useless outdoors. The output is soooooo low! Those would be "okay" for indoor use, as long as 6.5 foot all stands would be sufficiently high. I use electronic flash, aka "studio strobes" for indoor work. It just works great! I have samples on my pBase site of sets shot with $300, 3-light Speedtron setups, 4-light $1699 Speedotron setups, and $2,000 Speedotron setups, as well as some shots made with $149 a one-light monolight setup. My original Speedotron Brownline setup bought in 1986 still works; 2 of the three flashtubes are ORIGINAL, and still fire at full capacity.

Two lights, one small 24x24 softbox camera left, one 11.5 inch reflector with 20 degree grid and two Speedotron mylanr snap-on diffusers on ann 11.5-inch reflector positioned right next to camera as on axis fill light, background plain white wall, allowed to go a bit dark, color created in Lightroom, un-retouched (I can see a flyaway hair that needs removed.) This is a $780, 8 year-old setup with a small, five-pound Speedotron Black Line D405 pack, and two $40 used 103 light heads, and two new flashtubes at $100 each.







[]D3X_5790_auto-proof.jpg photo - Derrel photos at pbase.com

This second one, basically similar, but a cheap made in China 40-inch umbrella box as main light, and the same 11.5 in ch reflector + grid + 2 snap-on diffusers as my fill light.






[ D3X_5846_auto-proof.jpg photo - Derrel photos at pbase.com   ]

Back to the first lighting setup, with the 24x24 MIC softbox and same light as my fill, unretouched right outta Lightroom.






[    D3X_6055_auto-proof.jpg photo - Derrel photos at pbase.com    ]  These were all taken for a makeup artist, to show what her makeup looks like totally un-retouched, so skin smoothing was not done. This is the way two simple Speedotron lights work at 100 Watt-seconds each, giving my preferred f/stop for studio flash portraits, which is f/7.1, at ISO 100, and an X-synch speed of 1/200 second. I get .6 second recycle with this pack set at half power like this. It blasted through four sets on four models, a total of 705 frames without a miss.


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## Dark (Aug 22, 2014)

tirediron said:


> Okay, that makes sense.  To be honest, I don't think any of those lights will do the job very well...  I think you're going to be hard pressed to find a suitable solution within your budget.



Would you mind detailing why you don't think they'll work? Is it because the light output is not as powerful as strobes?



Derrel said:


> Continuous lights like that are almost useless outdoors. The output is soooooo low! Those would be "okay" for indoor use, as long as 6.5 foot all stands would be sufficiently high. I use electronic flash, aka "studio strobes" for indoor work. It just works great! I have samples on my pBase site of sets shot with *$300, 3-light Speedtron setups*, 4-light $1699 Speedotron setups, and $2,000 Speedotron setups, as well as some shots made with $149 a one-light monolight setup. My original Speedotron Brownline setup bought in 1986 still works; 2 of the three flashtubes are ORIGINAL, and still fire at full capacity.



Thanks for the pics, Derrel. Do you have a link to that $300 3-light Speedtron kit? I searched B&H but didn't find one in that price range.


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## Derrel (Aug 22, 2014)

I don't think you'll find the flourescent lights anywhere near powerful enough to compete with daylight, plus they will likely have weird spectral output, and they are LOW power lights designed to sell to make a high profit for the dealers. Since STILL photos indoors can be made at long shutter speeds, the low power of cheap fluorescent bulbs is not an issue on still-life images of inanimate objects, but for PEOPLE, the low-output fluorescents will mean slow shutter speeds at wide-ish apertures.

The Speedotron Brown Line D402 packs sell for $125 all the time on eBay. M90 lights go for $35 to $50 apiece. MW3U lights sell for the same price, more or less. I have bought a BUNCH of low,low priced Brown Line lights and packs over the years, as I find good deals on them. B&H sells used flash equipment at outrageous prices compared to what it sells for on eBay. You will find the SAME D802 kits that sell for $1600 on B&W new for $450 used on eBay.


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## Dark (Aug 23, 2014)

Derrel, I didn't find anything on eBay at that price, but let's forget about continuous kits for a bit. Can anyone recommend a 2 or 3-light strobe kit similar to the ones I linked above (w/lights, stands, softboxes, etc.)? I can always just rent out some Kino's for the interviews, but I'm still going to need a solid kit for portraits.

So let's focus on strobes. Are the ones I showed above - Westcott, Impact, etc. - poor quality? If so, can you recommend anything within my budget?


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## beachrat (Aug 23, 2014)

I went the used Speedotron Brownlike like Derrel just suggested.
In fact,I just scored another pack this week.
An untested,but mint looking, D1202 that I took a chance on figuring it wouldn't cost too much to fix if it didn't work.
It wound up being perfect,fully functional, and shipped to my door for $113.
And I picked up another working M11 head for $65 the week before.
If you take your time,you can put together a lot of power without breaking the bank.


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## Derrel (Aug 23, 2014)

beachrat said:


> I went the used Speedotron Brownlike like Derrel just suggested.
> In fact,I just scored another pack this week.
> An untested,but mint looking, D1202 that I took a chance on figuring it wouldn't cost too much to fix if it didn't work.
> It wound up being perfect,fully functional, and shipped to my door for $113.
> ...



The 1202 is fairly uncommon. If I recall correctly,unlike the D1204, it has the 200 Watt-second LOW setting option, like my D1602 has. The advantage of the 200 W-s "LOW" setting (in addition to FULL and HALF) is that the LOW position is actually more in line with what one wants when doing portraiture: the ability to split up just 200 real Watt-seconds' worth of flash power through three or four light heads. And, this is the part many people overlook, when using a high-capacity pack at a low power level like 200 Watt-seconds, the recycling time rivals that of the multi thousand dollar systems...because the system has the ability to store up six to eight times as much stored energy as is being used, the recycle time is measured in tenths of a second when using only 200 W-s.

For doing video, the Black Line's 250 Watt quartz modeling lamps might be sufficient for many uses; I know when I have three of four Black Line lights deployed, with the modeling lamps on Full power, there is a LOT of light in the area! Brown Line M11 units use 150 Watt quart lamps for their modeling lights.

As to the Impact brand of studio monolights: those ARE low-priced, but they look okay to me. Same with Adorama's Flashpoint 320M and 620M. I'm not really 100% sold on the idea of using flash monolights as a way to supply light for videography, but I suppose it could be done, but it seems like low-cost hot lights for video would make more sense. Of course one also needs diffusing and light controlling tools for those lights too. I have been recommending the Adorama Flashpoint 320M as the budget flash monolight for a long time, but the Impact and Genesis models look good too.


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## tirediron (Aug 23, 2014)

Dark said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> > Okay, that makes sense.  To be honest, I don't think any of those lights will do the job very well...  I think you're going to be hard pressed to find a suitable solution within your budget.
> ...


Because it's just plain not powerful enough; I've never used continuous lighting, but having talked to others who do, and done a fair amount of research, unless you get into Kino-flo territory, you're going to be pi$$ing against the wind.


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## CameraClicker (Aug 23, 2014)

I don`t know if something like this would be useful:  LUMAHAWK LD144A ON-CAMERA LED LIGHT LMX-LD144A  I have seen them at shows and they are painful to look at even from several yards away.  Wescott makes some continuous lights that take very large curly fluorescent bulbs.  Each lamp has about six bulbs, you can turn them on individually, or together.  I don`t think they are nearly as bright as a 400 WS strobe.  
There is something called a SPIDERLITE TD6 W/TILTER BRACKET 110V  which is $420, without bulbs, in Canada, so probably less in the states.  It says 1200 watts.  The WESTCOTT 85WATT 5500K FLOURESCENT LAMPs are $65 each!

I have the ERIN MANNING HOME STUDIO KIT, which is a couple of 24X24 softboxes with small compact fluorescent bulbs.  Great for product work, virtually useless for serious portraits, I would rather use speedlights or studio strobes.  

Something I have observed is, in movies, individual frames have blur, and you need that blur to make the movie smooth.  In still photos, blur can be used to indicate motion, but usually you want the ability to freeze motion and provide a nice crisp shot.  Speedlights are king for that because they have such a short flash duration, studio strobes have a longer flash but more light, and most continuous light systems don`t provide sufficient light to allow a fast shutter speed with small aperture, and continuous light is continuous, so there is no flash to freeze movement.


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## beachrat (Aug 23, 2014)

Derrel said:


> beachrat said:
> 
> 
> > I went the used Speedotron Brownlike like Derrel just suggested.
> ...




Yep the "low-200ws" setting is a great feature and it works perfectly for what I need.
1200ws is more than enough for anything I do,but having all that headroom is nice and makes for very quick recycles.
Plus,although the guy wanted $39 to ship it,he jumped at my offer of $75.
Great equipment is sweet enough,but dirt cheap is even better.


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## Dark (Aug 23, 2014)

CameraClicker said:


> I don`t know if something like this would be useful:  LUMAHAWK LD144A ON-CAMERA LED LIGHT LMX-LD144A  I have seen them at shows and they are painful to look at even from several yards away.  Wescott makes some continuous lights that take very large curly fluorescent bulbs.  Each lamp has about six bulbs, you can turn them on individually, or together.  I don`t think they are nearly as bright as a 400 WS strobe.
> There is something called a SPIDERLITE TD6 W/TILTER BRACKET 110V  which is $420, without bulbs, in Canada, so probably less in the states.  It says 1200 watts.  The WESTCOTT 85WATT 5500K FLOURESCENT LAMPs are $65 each!
> 
> I have the ERIN MANNING HOME STUDIO KIT, which is a couple of 24X24 softboxes with small compact fluorescent bulbs.  Great for product work, virtually useless for serious portraits, I would rather use speedlights or studio strobes.
> ...



Hey CameraClicker. Personally, I'm not a big fan of LED lights right now, but that's a personal opinion. I saw the Erin Manning kit in an ad somewhere and knew it wasn't for me. Thanks for the reply and suggestions. 

I have edited my original post to hopefully provide some clarity on what I'm seeking.


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## Santa_Claus (Aug 23, 2014)

I'd say keep an eye on Craigslist for some Alien Bees or Paul Buff strobes. Use the modeling light for video and the strobe for photos. One big strobe and a reflector could be all you need. I got a pair of 1600 White Lightnings for a good deal, maybe you'll find something similar.


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## beachrat (Aug 23, 2014)

Here's one that would work
Speedotron 402 Brownline Brown Line Strobe Light Kit | eBay


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## Dark (Aug 24, 2014)

Santa_Claus said:


> I'd say keep an eye on Craigslist for some Alien Bees or Paul Buff strobes. *Use the modeling light for video and the strobe for photos*. One big strobe and a reflector could be all you need. I got a pair of 1600 White Lightnings for a good deal, maybe you'll find something similar.



Thanks, Santa. Are you saying there are certain Alien Bees/Paul Buff kits that come with both a modeling light and strobe?



beachrat said:


> Here's one that would work
> Speedotron 402 Brownline Brown Line Strobe Light Kit | eBay



Thanks for the link, beachrat. Is that what you use?


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## Santa_Claus (Aug 24, 2014)

Dark said:


> Santa_Claus said:
> 
> 
> > I'd say keep an eye on Craigslist for some Alien Bees or Paul Buff strobes. *Use the modeling light for video and the strobe for photos*. One big strobe and a reflector could be all you need. I got a pair of 1600 White Lightnings for a good deal, maybe you'll find something similar.
> ...



Yes, they all do.


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## Dark (Aug 24, 2014)

Santa_Claus said:


> Yes, they all do.



Sweet. I'll look into these. Hopefully I can find some within my budget.

Since people either had a hard time answering my question, or feel my budget is too low, then I'd like to know what lighting kit does everyone use? I had considering just buying a powerful strobe w/softbox to go along with my reflector and speedlite, but I would need to find a good strobe first.


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## CameraClicker (Aug 24, 2014)

Dark said:


> Santa_Claus said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, they all do.
> ...



Well, as I said, I have the ERIN MANNING HOME STUDIO KIT.  I also have a couple of similar lamps that are from a macro light tent kit.  Mostly I use them for product shots.  I also have a collection of Canon flashes.  3 - 600 EX RT flashes with the radio, a 580 EX II and a 430 EX II, which I use bare, or with Nikon umbrellas, or Westcott Apollo Orb softbox, and 4 - Bowens 500 WS strobes with umbrellas and softboxes plus a couple of home made modifiers.  

To summarize, if I could only have one set of lights, I would choose 4 or 5 of Canon's 600 EX RT lights and the radio.  Used with stands and modifiers they can do everything studio strobes can do, except they don't have modelling lights that are effective.  You can gang two or three together if you need more power and they have a shorter flash duration than most studio strobes so they stop motion better (Einstein lights have the same kind of circuitry and are the exception in studio strobes).  They are light, portable and run on AA cells which give about 250 flashes per 4 cells.  I have rechargeables.

Costs and regulations around things that plug into wall power are different in the US.  In another thread, a set of umbrellas with stands was $70, and you can get inexpensive third party flashes and radios, so you could probably fit them into your budget.

There are some of my bad photos, and more discussion here:  Topic: Lights « You Are Not a Photographer | Exposing fauxtographers since 2011


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## Village Idiot (Aug 25, 2014)

Santa_Claus said:


> I'd say keep an eye on Craigslist for some Alien Bees or Paul Buff strobes. Use the modeling light for video and the strobe for photos. One big strobe and a reflector could be all you need. I got a pair of 1600 White Lightnings for a good deal, maybe you'll find something similar.



He's not going to find 3 Alien Bees in that price category. The Adorama lights would be a better bet.


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## Dark (Aug 25, 2014)

CameraClicker said:


> Well, as I said, I have the ERIN MANNING HOME STUDIO KIT.



Hey CC, I wasn't trying to imply that you hadn't answered my question, but you yourself dismissed the kit as only being good for product photography and since I'm looking for a kit for indoor/outdoor portraits, I disregarded it.



CameraClicker said:


> I also have a couple of similar lamps that are from a macro light tent kit. Mostly I use them for product shots. I also have a collection of Canon flashes. 3 - 600 EX RT flashes with the radio, a 580 EX II and a 430 EX II, which I use bare, or with Nikon umbrellas, or Westcott Apollo Orb softbox, and 4 - Bowens 500 WS strobes with umbrellas and softboxes plus a couple of home made modifiers.
> 
> To summarize, if I could only have one set of lights, I would choose 4 or 5 of Canon's 600 EX RT lights and the radio. Used with stands and modifiers they can do everything studio strobes can do, except they don't have modelling lights that are effective. You can gang two or three together if you need more power and they have a shorter flash duration than most studio strobes so they stop motion better (Einstein lights have the same kind of circuitry and are the exception in studio strobes). They are light, portable and run on AA cells which give about 250 flashes per 4 cells. I have rechargeables.



Yeah, I wish I could have multiple Canon flashes too, but that's not financially feasible right now. I had thought of getting some of the 3rd-party flashes to go along with my 430ex ii, like this one from Yongnuo, but a few reviews said the product died in the middle of their shoots. I have the Yongnuo wireless flash triggers and their excellent, but I can't risk a flash dying during a shoot. 

Amazon.com : Yongnuo YN560-III-USA Speedlite Flash with Integrated 2.4-GHz Receiver for Canon, Nikon, Pentax, Olympus, GN58, US Warranty (Black) : Camera & Photo 




Village Idiot said:


> He's not going to find 3 Alien Bees in that price category. The Adorama lights would be a better bet.



You mean the Flashpoint 320's Derrel mentioned earlier?

Flashpoint 320M 150 Watt AC/DC Monolight Strobe FPML320M


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## CameraClicker (Aug 25, 2014)

"like this one from Yongnuo, but a few reviews said the product died in the middle of their shoots."

I'm fundamentally lazy, and over the years I have seen advantages to having good gear, all from the same company.  It reduces finger pointing if something fails.  I also appreciate the 600 EX RT flashes cost as much as one of my studio strobes.  I have heard from several people who feel Yongnuo is a good brand, but you lose the ETTL functions, so you have to work harder.  
Stands and modifiers are independent of the actual flash when small flash is used.  So you could start out with inexpensive flash units now and move to more expensive ones later, just for the cost of the flash itself.


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## Derrel (Aug 25, 2014)

The Yongnuo flash units are VERY low-cost compared against Canon 600 RT flashes, which are top-shelf, ruggedly designed and built, HIGH-end, officially supported, genuine manufacturer-made and 100% FULLY-INTEGRATED with the Canon system. They are the BEST speedlight-type flashes that money can buy for a Canon camera. The Yongy's are 1/10th the price, more or less, and are what I consider to be disposable units. When one craps out, throw it away, and bring in its replacement. They are not fully-integrated in the way the 600 RT's are, because they are made outside of the Canon system. A guy can afford to buy six or seven or even ten Yongy's.

Adorama Flashpoint 320M: have 100 Watt incandescent modeling lamps: not "all that bright", but not "terribly dim" either. Again, I consider these to be more or less, disposable units, and the best value in studio monolights. $99.95 for a 150 Watt-second monolight that puts out MORE flash power than a $600 speedlight? That's a good value. The 320M puts out MORE flash power than the Alien Bee 400 or 800 units, at 2.7x lower and 2.4x lower cost.

If yuo want video lighting, I would suggest looking for lighting gear for video. If you want lighting for still photos, look at lighting gear optimized for still photos.


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## Village Idiot (Aug 25, 2014)

Or spend the coin on Dynalites with the new heads. You can use 1600w/s + packs and iirc, they have 500watt modeling lights upgradable to 1000watt for video lighting. It'll only cost you about $2700 for a pack and two heads.


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## Dark (Aug 30, 2014)

CameraClicker said:


> Stands and modifiers are independent of the actual flash when small flash is used.  So you could start out with inexpensive flash units now and move to more expensive ones later, just for the cost of the flash itself.





Derrel said:


> The Yongnuo flash units are VERY low-cost compared against Canon 600 RT flashes, which are top-shelf, ruggedly designed and built, HIGH-end, officially supported, genuine manufacturer-made and 100% FULLY-INTEGRATED with the Canon system. They are the BEST speedlight-type flashes that money can buy for a Canon camera. The Yongy's are 1/10th the price, more or less, and are what I consider to be disposable units. When one craps out, throw it away, and bring in its replacement. They are not fully-integrated in the way the 600 RT's are, because they are made outside of the Canon system. A guy can afford to buy six or seven or even ten Yongy's.



Eh, I'm not the kind to waste money on gear - now or ever. It's not in my nature. If a flash is going to die on me because that's just how cheap it is, I'd rather save for a more expensive, and reliable, brand.



Derrel said:


> Adorama Flashpoint 320M: have 100 Watt incandescent modeling lamps: not "all that bright", but not "terribly dim" either. Again, I consider these to be more or less, disposable units, and the best value in studio monolights. $99.95 for a 150 Watt-second monolight that puts out MORE flash power than a $600 speedlight? That's a good value. The 320M puts out MORE flash power than the Alien Bee 400 or 800 units, at 2.7x lower and 2.4x lower cost.



I decided to give the Flashpoint 320M a try and I'll be testing it to see if it meets my needs. I'm using a reflector as my fill and a speedlite as my backlight. One thing that really troubles me about the FP320 is that it uses a proprietary speed ring mount, and since FP is the Adorama brand, I'll be limited to only buying my speed rings from there, which I don't like. The Impact brand (which is the B&H brand) has some nice softboxes, but the speed ring mount they use is different (seems like it's more the industry standard), so while I may save money initially on the FP320Ms, it may cost me more in the long run buying different speed rings to work with these strobes. Unless I have my speed ring info completely wrong.


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## chuasam (Sep 11, 2014)

Either I spend too much or you have a completely unrealistic budget. I could spend $400 on just a couple of soft boxes or just one OEM softbox from profoto. 
You could get a nice dynalite set for maybe around $1500 or a pair of elinchrom dlite4 for under a grand 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## chuasam (Sep 11, 2014)

Dark said:


> Sweet. I'll look into these. Hopefully I can find some within my budget.
> 
> Since people either had a hard time answering my question, or feel my budget is too low, then I'd like to know what lighting kit does everyone use? I had considering just buying a powerful strobe w/softbox to go along with my reflector and speedlite, but I would need to find a good strobe first.


An alienbee abr800 and a pair of profoto compact 600.
I consider my gear low end. I used dynalite before. They're nice too.
Used Speedotron black line at school till they upgraded to Profoto 7b. Anything that can stand that kinda daily abuse is amazing.
I've seen my gf use a broncolor scoro pack s 3200 rfs2 - now that's something I would sell my left nut for. A broncolor lighting solution can set you back around $20,000 without any light modifiers. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Bobby Ironsights (Sep 17, 2014)

Dark said:


> Anything over $349 is out,.



Quoting prices from the midwest photo exchange

LumoPro LP180 Quad-Sync Manual Flash  +$179.99
LumoPro Universal Hot Shoe Translator Kit  +$33.57
LumoPro LP735 3-in-1 43" Compact Umbrella  +$24.99
Interfit 8.5 ft Air Cushioned Light Stand  +$26.87
LumoPro LP538T 38" Soft Shell Lighting Case  +$22.99

1 x Strobist® DIY Kit  +$8.95

1 x Strobist® Rosco Color Effects Gel Pack 5x8"  +$9.96

1 x Strobist® Pro Rosco Color Correction Gel Pack  +$9.96

1 x LumoPro Bungee Ties (10 Pk)  +$8.99
Price as configured:$326.27

A 5in1 reflector like the Wescott 30inch would round out the kit, but add an extra 30 bucks.


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## Village Idiot (Sep 17, 2014)

I rather drop some of the periphery gear and purchase radio triggers than use wired hot shoe triggers.


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