# View from a plane



## Reed029 (Apr 18, 2008)

I took these from my seat on a commercial plane.  I think we were somewhere over Pennsylvania.

Let me know what you think.  I'm mostly just curious if you find them interesting at all.


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## bapp (Apr 18, 2008)

The short answer is no.

Sorry but everyone who has ever been on a plane has one of these images in the collection of holiday snaps.

http://images.google.com/images?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&q=plane+window&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

Decent exposures, but far from original on any level!


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## xs400 (Apr 18, 2008)

bapp said:


> The short answer is no.
> 
> Sorry but everyone who has ever been on a plane has one of these images in the collection of holiday snaps.
> 
> ...


 
One of the things that bothers me about this website is people that make rude and insensitve comments like this.   Comments like this are way to common on this website for my liking.  It's my opinion that if you don't like a picture and can't make a constructive comment, you should make no comment at all.


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## Mesoam (Apr 18, 2008)

wrong, then people will continue to think their pictures aren't crappy when they actually are...

its called constructive criticism 

they are not interesting, they are grainy, and there is junk on the lens



xs400 said:


> One of the things that bothers me about this website is people that make rude and insensitve comments like this.   Comments like this are way to common on this website for my liking.  It's my opinion that if you don't like a picture and can't make a constructive comment, you should make no comment at all.


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## spiffybeth (Apr 18, 2008)

i like the subtlety of the colors in the first and the fact that you can see the reflection of the clouds on the wing of the plane. 

who cares that this is a common shot?  its common because its interesting :roll: keep shooting!


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## bapp (Apr 18, 2008)

xs400 said:


> One of the things that bothers me about this website is people that make rude and insensitve comments like this.   Comments like this are way to common on this website for my liking.  It's my opinion that if you don't like a picture and can't make a constructive comment, you should make no comment at all.



He asked for our opinions and if anyone found them of interest. I offered mine.

I always offer constructive crit on any images I talk about, but the simple fact of the matter is that there is nothing constructive to say.. Composition?? There is only have one viewpoint. The image is what it is!

The problem with this images is it's all too common... I felt the fact that I offered a link with over 700,000 images of basically the same thing, was more than enough "constructive criticisms"

P.S If you think my comment is critical... You should experience an image critical analysis seminar. These people pull no punches!!!


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## bapp (Apr 18, 2008)

spiffybeth said:


> who cares that this is a common shot?  its common because its interesting :roll: keep shooting!



Surely this is paradoxical?

Things that hold interest do so by there uniqueness. Once something becomes familiar does the interest not turn banal?


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## spiffybeth (Apr 18, 2008)

maybe for him this was unique? perhaps it was his first flight? this view would be very unique for someone who doesnt travel by air. the mere fact that (s)he posted it means that they find it interesting. so perhaps to you its mundane, but that doesnt mean that everyone else has the same view on it. 
but thats not to say that it isnt a common shot. 

people dont stop taking pictures of the eiffel tower simple because so many others have done so in the past. what makes this shot any different? i could also link you to the countless thousands of images of it.


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## bapp (Apr 18, 2008)

spiffybeth said:


> maybe for him this was unique? perhaps it was his first flight? this view would be very unique for someone who doesnt travel by air.



How unique this sight is to the photographer is irrelevant in relation to it's photographic merit. It is how it is perceived.



spiffybeth said:


> the mere fact that (s)he posted it means that they find it interesting. so perhaps to you its mundane, but that doesnt mean that everyone else has the same view on it.
> but thats not to say that it isnt a common shot.



Again, the fact that is is on public display means that my (and others) opinion on the image supersedes the opinion of the photographer. If it was merely and image for the photographer, then why post it on a forum.



spiffybeth said:


> people dont stop taking pictures of the eiffel tower simple because so many others have done so in the past. what makes this shot any different? i could also link you to the countless thousands of images of it.



The challenge of a mimetic photographer is simple, make the familiar unfamiliar. There is a difference between shooting the Eiffel tower creatively (or technically) and pointing your camera at it and clicking. 

The problem with this image is that no uniqueness or creativity has been applied, a simple case of point and shoot. This is what makes the image "common" not the subject itself. (I appreciate that it is not the easiest place in the world to attempt something original.. chances are you'd get arrested, but that really compels my reasons to not take this picture)

P.S I am not being critical for the sake of it or " to make my self feel good" I just wanted to explain that the image holds little or no interest, in photographic terms. I have shot an almost identical image myself. It is intriguing to fly, and we like to be reminded of this... but not an image to win any prizes, more to remind us of a good time.


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## jilleenphoto (Apr 18, 2008)

I love the clouds in the second photo.  I have never been on a plane, and know I'm going to be scared when I do.  So scared of heights.



Great photos.


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## xs400 (Apr 18, 2008)

bapp said:


> Once something becomes familiar does the interest not turn banal?


 
Maybe that's true for you, but not necessarily for everyone else.



bapp said:


> Again, the fact that is is on public display means that my (and others) opinion on the image supersedes the opinion of the photographer.


 
That's one of the most arrogant statements I've read in a long time.


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## spiffybeth (Apr 18, 2008)

bapp said:


> How unique this sight is to the photographer is irrelevant in relation to it's photographic merit. It is how it is perceived.


i think this is where you and i are making a big distinction. to the photographer, it has merit, but to you it doesnt and thats ok, too.



> Again, the fact that is is on public display means that my (and others) opinion on the image supersedes the opinion of the photographer. If it was merely and image for the photographer, then why post it on a forum.


there are many times when ive posted pictures just to find out what others thought even though their opinions didnt actually matter.  its a basis for learning what im doing wrong and how i can improve. 




> The challenge of a mimetic photographer is simple, make the familiar unfamiliar. There is a difference between shooting the Eiffel tower creatively (or technically) and pointing your camera at it and clicking.
> 
> The problem with this image is that no uniqueness or creativity has been applied, a simple case of point and shoot. This is what makes the image "common" not the subject itself. (I appreciate that it is not the easiest place in the world to attempt something original.. chances are you'd get arrested, but that really compels my reasons to not take this picture)


i agree.... except that i find the sky and cloud formations to be unique. i guess my head is in the clouds :roll:



> P.S I am not being critical for the sake of it or " to make my self feel good" I just wanted to explain that the image holds little or no interest, in photographic terms. I have shot an almost identical image myself. It is intriguing to fly, and we like to be reminded of this... but not an image to win any prizes, more to remind us of a good time.


im giving the opposing side just for the sake of doing so.


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## xs400 (Apr 18, 2008)

Your pics could be improved by the adjustments of levels and contrast. I used Photoshop Elements to bring out the color in the first shot.  Maybe you'll find this a little better.
Keep shooting, what you like is what's most important.


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## Alex_B (Apr 18, 2008)

xs400 said:


> One of the things that bothers me about this website is people that make rude and insensitve comments like this.   Comments like this are way to common on this website for my liking.  It's my opinion that if you don't like a picture and can't make a constructive comment, you should make no comment at all.



The question was, if this images was interesting. This means the OP asks for a personal opinion. And that was given, and it was even explained why it was thought uninteresting: lack of originality.

and positive aspects were pointed out as well.

What else would you want? I cannot see any rudeness here.


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## Alex_B (Apr 18, 2008)

spiffybeth said:


> people dont stop taking pictures of the eiffel tower simple because so many others have done so in the past. what makes this shot any different? i could also link you to the countless thousands of images of it.




yes, but the Eiffel tower gives you much more creative freedom, as in the perspective you chose, how you include fore and background and all. I agree there are not many good images of the Eiffel Tower, but there are some at least.

Whereas an airplane wing is just in the way when you take the picture, you cannot do much about it.

Again, the OP asked for personal opinions (do you think it is interesting?) ... and that is what he gets!


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## invisible (Apr 18, 2008)

I find the first image more interesting (and well-composed, even if you didn't have another option) than the vast majority of "wing pictures" that I've ever seen. I also find the original version more attractive than the edit provided here by a fellow poster.


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## Alex_B (Apr 18, 2008)

I agree, the edit lacks the natural softness of the original. it looks rather too intense. maybe something in between would look nicer.


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## Los Angeles (Apr 18, 2008)

xs400 said:


> One of the things that bothers me about this website is people that make rude and insensitve comments like this.   Comments like this are way to common on this website for my liking.  It's my opinion that if you don't like a picture and can't make a constructive comment, you should make no comment at all.



WHAAAAA WHAAAA...  THE OP did not ask if they looked fat in a dress...  they went on to a photography site and asked for a constructive criticism...  Not every photo is good...


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## Alex_B (Apr 18, 2008)

Los Angeles said:


> WHAAAAA WHAAAA.



What language is that?


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## Wyjid (Apr 18, 2008)

bapp said:


> He asked for our opinions and if anyone found them of interest. I offered mine.
> 
> I always offer constructive crit on any images I talk about, but the simple fact of the matter is that there is nothing constructive to say.. Composition?? There is only have one viewpoint. The image is what it is!
> 
> ...


 

there is always something constructive to say. spiffybeth mentioned the reflection on the wing. that is interesting, especially since most are painted dull white. while that in and of itself may not make this particular shot an award winner, it is a start. some CONSTRUCTIVE criticism would be to say; "hey that's kind of cool, why don't you develope that part of the image a bit more? see what you can do to crop it, enhance it so it stands out" as photographers we look to find interest in the everyday, use a bit of imagination when viewing other peoples pics as well. seeing as there are about 700 000 other pictures like this it's obviously a subject of great interest to a large section of human society. since that is the case one cannot be faulted for taking a picture of a subject that appeals to so many. have you ever taken a picture of a face? they're all generally the same, but we still take them and we find a point of interest in each one.


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## bapp (Apr 19, 2008)

xs400 said:


> That's one of the most arrogant statements I've read in a long time.




Arrogance holds no value as a viewer, the fact remains if it quacks like a duck, looks like a duck then it's a duck. No matter what the creator might tell us.

If you read the post correctly I am not referring to myself as an individual but as a collective audience.


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## bapp (Apr 19, 2008)

Los Angeles said:


> WHAAAAA WHAAAA...  THE OP did not ask if they looked fat in a dress...  they went on to a photography site and asked for a constructive criticism...  Not every photo is good...


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## Reed029 (May 5, 2008)

Wow, I did not expect this to turn into such a debate!  I'm glad though; you all have some good points.

To be perfectly honest, I'm so very new to photography and I have never seen a photo like this before.  I do appreciate EVERYTHING you have to say because I'm learning something, even if it's learning that some people can be assholes.


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## Heck (May 5, 2008)

I don't see anyone being a #$#hole here just someone giving the opinion you asked for.


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## plentygood (May 5, 2008)

Reed029 said:


> Wow, I did not expect this to turn into such a debate! I'm glad though; you all have some good points.
> 
> To be perfectly honest, I'm so very new to photography and I have never seen a photo like this before. I do appreciate EVERYTHING you have to say because I'm learning something, even if it's learning that some people can be assholes.


 
I'll admit there are a fair share of rude things said on the board (as in most other places of discussion), but there wasn't a trace of rudeness in Bapp's post.  You asked if it was interesting and he gave his honest answer and supported his opinion.  I agree, the shot is not original, but you've got good composition and exposure.  Just keep shooting.

Hearing constructive criticism is the best way to get better.  I don't post most of my stuff because people rarely actually "critique" posts.


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## jdjd1118 (May 5, 2008)

I'm not about to enter into this philosophical conversation between higher beings, but I like the clouds.  Keep shooting.


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## LaFoto (May 6, 2008)

My opinion about this thread - from a moderator's point of view - is that there is nothing here that needs any moderation.
The audience was asked if they thought the photos on display are "interesting at all" (the OP was "mostly just curious" about *that*), and while they are _nice_, indeed, the adjective that has been asked for does not apply. Nothing  more has been said, and it  was spoken in very normal words.


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## manaheim (May 6, 2008)

*On the photos themselves: *

I tend to agree with the admittedly somewhat brusque original review: they need some help in composition and processing and aren't terribly interesting... however, I admit every time I look out a plane window I'm rather stunned by the view, so I always wish I could capture that impact... I certainly understand the attempt.

*On the matter of "rudeness":*

While I think the commentor could have phrased his statements a bit more delicately, I honestly wish people would be WAY more upfront about how they feel.

It's always great to get people saying "wow, love that...", but in truth, I'd almost rather have people tear every image apart (with as many specifics as possible) because that's how I learn.  I would also be willing to accept a bit of brusqueness to get this as it is well worth it to get the candor.

I think people should make a point to be constructive, and certainly make an effort not to hurt folks' feelings, but at the end of the day if something needs to be said to help a photog become better, and there really isn't any way to candy coat it, then I think it should be delivered sans-sugar and people should do their best not to wig out about that.

My $.02.  YMMV.  Offer not valid in Alaska.


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## Reed029 (May 6, 2008)

I wasn't implying that someone was being rude to me. I absolutely agree that I posted pictures and should take whatever someone's opinion is of them. I accept that. I do, however, think that some people were rude to others in their responses to this debate. That's all.

I welcome any and every opinion put out there because I learned something from each one - positive or negative.  So thank you all for your candor.


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## Judge Sharpe (May 6, 2008)

Look, we have all made photographs that some like and others don't. I tend to look at the context of the picture. True, this has been done many times, but so have landscapes, picture of people, most weddings. As a stand alone picture, in a few years, Reed029 might not remember why he took it. But placed at the first of a series about the trip he took, it is a great opener. Some pictures lend them selves to a story, with a beginning, a middle,  a climax and an ending. Sometimes an epilogue. I think Reed029 might have ask for what he wanted in a more concise way. He was, I think, trying to be humble as he is a new photographer, When what he wanted to say is Here are some pictures I took, I'm new at this, How do I make them better. Remember the first time you preformed in public, you hoped that you would interest someone but you were scared to really go all out?  That no one would look? Its one thing to give a one word answer to one of the semi-pros we have on here, its another to do it to a noob. 
Bill


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## manaheim (May 6, 2008)

Reed029 said:


> I wasn't implying that someone was being rude to me. I absolutely agree that I posted pictures and should take whatever someone's opinion is of them. I accept that. I do, however, think that some people were rude to others in their responses to this debate. That's all.
> 
> I welcome any and every opinion put out there because I learned something from each one - positive or negative. So thank you all for your candor.


 
Whatever the case, don't be discouraged by any of this.  Post away!  I love seeing peoples pics, learning from their successes and even their occasional misses.  I learn a ton here.  It's a great place and people try hard to help.


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## HailttRedskins (May 6, 2008)

I did notice the stuff on the lens right away, however I do like #1's reflection of the clouds on the wing.


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