# Was I too tough on this guy?(link to a car forum where a photography fued broke out)



## DSLR noob (Oct 20, 2009)

Ok, this is a link to a local car forum I'm on, and I saw one too many noob photographers gonig crazy over their first DSLR, so I snapped on him a little, (I'm 87 turbo II). I explain myself later in the thread, but was I too harsh, do you agree with my points, or is something off with the way I went about it?

mr2 spyder ... HWY 60/vista point - IMPORTATLANTA.COM - Automotive, Lifestyle, Offtopic, Forum, Blog, & Online Community


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## iflynething (Oct 20, 2009)

That was epic. Well put

~Michael~


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## bigmike (Oct 20, 2009)

I understand where you were coming from, but you seemed to come off as being very snobbish and condescending.  I don't mean this to be a stab, but edge on the side of mercy.


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## battletone (Oct 20, 2009)

If I was involved in that I sure wouldn't go around posting to other forums so everyone can see what was said in that thread.

:thumbdown:


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## DSLR noob (Oct 20, 2009)

battletone said:


> If I was involved in that I sure wouldn't go around posting to other forums so everyone can see what was said in that thread.
> 
> :thumbdown:



cause I came off as an ass? He needed someone to call it like it is, and I did just that. All the curse words were used because of a generic feel that whole forum has, have to fit in wih your audience you know?


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## epp_b (Oct 21, 2009)

I dunno, you kind of started it and I don't think it was really necessary.  Where's this law that requires you to run a full-time photography business to have the word "Photography" in your forum signature, anyway?

Yeah, so his pictures are ... "meh" ... I've seen worse, but I've certainly seen a heck of a lot better.  We all sucked at first.


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## joeywpc (Oct 21, 2009)

I'm sure he wasn't asking to have his photography skills critiqued on a car forum.  Did he ever say he was showing off the photos or the car in the photos?  Not great photos (or car) but i think you were way out of line and came off looking like a pratt.


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## battletone (Oct 21, 2009)

DSLR noob said:


> battletone said:
> 
> 
> > If I was involved in that I sure wouldn't go around posting to other forums so everyone can see what was said in that thread.
> ...


I have a foul mouth.  But I do try to watch myself.  But no, it wasn't so much the cursing, but a lack of intelligent thought in every single post.


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## Dominantly (Oct 21, 2009)

I think you came off as a Douche Bag...... 
I'd also be willing to bet you wouldn't come off like that in person at a car meet.


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## astrostu (Oct 21, 2009)

I agree with battletone.  Your attitude was uncalled for.  I've offered lots of advice on this forum for photos that absolutely suck, but no where did I ever use language nor a tone like yours.  Even when it was the 50th time I've explained something (like not shooting at f/14 for the moon, nor ISO 800).  Even when people then contradict me, I've calmly and rationally explained why they are wrong and why their photos will be better if they do as I suggest.

What you did is just plain obnoxious.  I actually read the thread thinking you were the original poster and thought that while the pictures weren't great, I felt sorry for you when reading the first reply thinking, "Wow, that guy's a real jacka--."  Well, the sentiment remains for that first reply on that thread.  And your subsequent ones.


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## Turnerea (Oct 21, 2009)

it's ok, just post this thread in some other forum and someone there will tell you that you shouldn't have even bothered to ask this question here.


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## Garbz (Oct 21, 2009)

First reply was pretty outright nasty, but the post towards the bottom was far better. 
At first you were like "you suck get off my lawn" but then it was far more constructive with your constructive criticism. You need to tactfully tell people they suck. Otherwise they are more likely to completely give up than continue to try and learn.

I have a bit of teaching experience so I'll add this. When something does something that's just utter crap they are more likely to need guidance. I had an ELEC1000 student do a most basic wiring mistake which made it very clear they didn't have a clue what they were doing and this was late in the course. I got pissed since I went through this all before with the class and it was late in the semester. But the solution is not "HRRR fine I'll do it for you" or "my god you're an idiot why didn't you listen" or even "I've been through this 4 weeks ago read your notes from back then", the key to really getting them to learn is to prompt them with questions that make them think. Ask leading questions to get them to draw their own conclusion about why they suck so much.

So relating it back to just one point in what you said it's the difference between "use your lens hood next time" to asking the question if they think the flare adds to the image at all, and prompting them to think about it. 

I agree with you in the entire thread, just not the method. Mind you there's professional teachers who approach classes the way you approached that thread so my opinion may be completely wrong :lmao:

And to eat my own words: "Do you think being rude to him will want him to continue to learn?" There now i'm not a hypocrite


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## PhotoXopher (Oct 21, 2009)

I like stevo_EF91's response to your post the best to be honest.


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## usayit (Oct 21, 2009)

I think your first post came off as an ass.   Nothing in that post was constructive... just downright condescending.  The only constructive comments came afterwards (CA, better lens.. hood etc) and by then they were lost in the over tone.

Oh btw... I love to "debate" various topics (especially politics).  They get heated pretty quickly and often result in a lot of insults and name calling.  The most effective way to deal with it is to point it out.. perhaps comment against.. and move on without throwing an insult back.  Once you go down that path people get focused on the insults rather than the content.. you essentially loose credibility.  Always take the high ground and focus on the content/discussion.


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## bigtwinky (Oct 21, 2009)

I also think you came off as a total ass in that thread.  Your posts had nothing to do with photography, but everything to do with wanting to come off like an e-thug and pwning on an internet forum.

In a later post in that thread, you said "Well what helped me the most is when people tore me a new asshole for it....It's called tough love constructive criticism".  I seriously hope you were not referring to this forum.  No where and no how have I ever seen on this forum anyone act as crudely and immaturely as you did on that forum.  So I seriously hope you were not trying to emulate the tearing you got here.
And where was that "tough love cc"?  Your initial post only said "Pics are ok, car is ok, scenery is good, but overall not great."  Only later when being called out for being an ass did you actual mention some photo terms like flare, and CA.

But seriously... all you did is come off as someone with an inflated ego and your internetz attitude doesnt help. 

I seriously hope no one there can track you back to here and think that this is where you got your leet photography attitude from and assume all photographers are as asshatish as you are in that thread.

And then you come to another internet forum to post about what you did.  

Dude...really.


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## txphotog (Oct 21, 2009)

Yep, I agree with the majority here. You went way overboard with those posts. I think that's just your immaturity coming out. I hope you don't go that far on this site. I'm not trying to be harsh, but you did ask of our opinions on the matter.


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## Overread (Oct 21, 2009)

I agree with the others - you charged in on a very high horse with little more than a beat down on the other person. If you go back an reread the post and be objective you can see there is fairly little actually in content which is refering to the photos in the post - most infact  comes off as a general vent/rant against "newbies with a DSLR".

The second post is again attacking a construct that you have made and not the OP of the post. Sure he is proud of his work - that is why he is posting it and we all need that bit of pride in what we achive. Sure its not world class work, but that does not mean there is no pride to be had. Further a person with pride in their work is far more likley to try and improve upon that than someone who is totally defeatist. 
At the end of the post you make a short refrence to the actual photos and images, but whilst knowing that the person is a new photographer you make no effort to explain the words you are using nor to give any insight into possible corrections or reasons for the errors appearing in the first place

Third post - again your attacking from the get go (granted the thread is now more flamy but still!). Its not til the end again that we start to see the more thought out comments.

"But from my experience you'll only improve slower, because until you see things you dislike in your own work, you won't start doing things to improve on it."

Key part here - you are right - he won't improve untill he can see the photo and its errors. But people don't start things knowing how to look at a photo that way. They have to learn and one way of learning is getting detailed feedback on their work. Show and tell them where the errors are and what they look like so that they can see them for themselves. They won't learn it with cover all statements "the shot has CA" means nothing if they don't know what CA is and the statement alone means nothing as a crit if they can't have any idea how to correct it.

edit - remember there is a big difference between being honest, critical and impartail with being insulting. One does not have to insult someone to give them honest feedback nor do you have to talk down to them either - talk to them, show them and guide them. 



Garbz said:


> Mind you there's professional teachers who approach classes the way you approached that thread so my opinion may be completely wrong :lmao:



heh I always think that they only get away with this because of a few things:
1) people are paying to learn and unles they pull out of the course they have to come back next week/lesson to get their monies worth. So whilst they might be insulted at times or the critique is harsh they can't just escape. Online there are ignor lists and other website - you can simply be ignored so the approach totally fails

2) There is the personal challenging aspect - face to face some people will see it as a challenge and will try to rise to meet that - online your just a bunch of words and an ava

3) Mentor - often these people will be more wildly known and some students might have sought them out to learn from specifically - so they end up being a total arse in real life but many will push themselves a lot harder as as result to get the apprciation of their peer. Somehow I am guessing that that is not the relationship that you and the OP in that thread have


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## DSLR noob (Oct 21, 2009)

(I am quick replying, so I will not take the time to quote each person for reply, but here are responses to several posts)

(overall)Well that's why I posted here, I did feel like it was a bit bad. Granted I was quite sour at the time just because it was a general vent towards the attitudes of some other people on the site that buy a DSLR and act like they're all that.

-Someone here mentioned how I wouldn't act like that in person at a car meet, you're EXACTLY right, part of the problem with the internet is that unless something sticks out, and goes to some extreme, you will likely not remember it, which the OP probably will now, so I guess that's good.

-No, I didn't learn that hard tough love stuff from TPF, and no there is no way to track me back to the site.

(Garbz) I guess I should have approached that more patiently, and raising questions. Like I said above, just let a pent up vent/rant against months of hot headed newbs out on one poor guy.

Rest assured, I am not usually the ass I presented myself as, which, looking at after a good night of sleep, I definitely was haha.


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## txphotog (Oct 21, 2009)

DSLR noob said:


> (I am quick replying, so I will not take the time to quote each person for reply, but here are responses to several posts)
> 
> (overall)Well that's why I posted here, I did feel like it was a bit bad. Granted I was quite sour at the time just because it was a general vent towards the attitudes of some other people on the site that buy a DSLR and act like they're all that.
> 
> ...



It's nice to see that your not being defensive with the posts here. It looks like you now realize that you were too hard with your posts, and I respect that. Hey, we all make mistakes, but we just have to learn by them and move on.


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## Rekd (Oct 21, 2009)

I'm going to jump on the "you were an ass" bandwagon. I didn't see where that guy was asking for your critique. Seems to me you just saw someone that may or may not have been a threat to your status as  photog and you let loose on him. 

Don't get me wrong, it was a fun read, but yeah, you were an ass.


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## mrodgers (Oct 21, 2009)

DSLR noob said:


> (I am quick replying, so I will not take the time to quote each person for reply, but here are responses to several posts)
> 
> (overall)Well that's why I posted here, I did feel like it was a bit bad. Granted I was quite sour at the time just because it was a general vent towards the attitudes of some other people on the site that buy a DSLR and act like they're all that.


My only question is, in what way does _"tried to take some pics of his dirty car lol.."_ state that he has the attitude that he is "all that" because he bought a dSLR?


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## bigtwinky (Oct 21, 2009)

When I get fueled by stuff on forums (been doing forums since 1995), I usually take a break before answering, and if its pissing me off that much, I sleep on it.  Hot headed immediate answers are usually not the best.

I prefer being subtle and sarcastic, its much more entertaining playing with someone's mind.


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## Rekd (Oct 21, 2009)

bigtwinky said:


> When I get fueled by stuff on forums (been doing forums since 1995), I usually take a break before answering, and if its pissing me off that much, I sleep on it.  Hot headed immediate answers are usually not the best.
> 
> I prefer being subtle and sarcastic, its much more entertaining playing with someone's mind.



Agreed. But this guy didn't have any reason to get upset. It's not like the guy called him out or something. He was just being an ass.


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## Plato (Oct 21, 2009)

I'm with the others.  You weren't "tough."  You were a complete ass.


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## ErectedGryphon (Oct 21, 2009)

DSLR noob said:


> (I am quick replying, so I will not take the time to quote each person for reply, but here are responses to several posts)
> 
> (overall)Well that's why I posted here, I did feel like it was a bit bad. Granted I was quite sour at the time just because it was a general vent towards the attitudes of some other people on the site that buy a DSLR and act like they're all that.
> 
> ...


 
Now that you see the errors of your ways, go back and post an appology.  You might earn a little respect back on that forum, and might even make a friend of the OP.


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## Rekd (Oct 21, 2009)

DSLR noob said:


> blah blah blahhttp://www.importatlanta.com/forums/showthread.php?t=260000



I just checked out your crash thread. Did you take those pictures? Cuz if you did, I'm gonna jump on another bandwagon over there and say that I could take better pictures with my cell phone than you can with a dslr. :lmao:

Irony can be so, ironic.


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## newrmdmike (Oct 21, 2009)

we've all had our unsavory moments and learn and grow from them, hopefully this will be one of those cases.

i've had moments like that on THIS forum (hangs head in shame)


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## DSLR noob (Oct 21, 2009)

About ATVs said:


> DSLR noob said:
> 
> 
> > blah blah blahhttp://www.importatlanta.com/forums/showthread.php?t=260000
> ...



Snapshots man. What's the point of caring how a crashed car looks like? I've at least made dirty cars come off well.

And I already apologized via PM before even making this thread.

And no, he didn't attack me directly, and didn't verbalize the hot headed attitude, but it's all over that site, and the sig just reinforced what I had seen.

Yeah, I was a total douche, but we're not perfect, you've probably all done something similar at some point. We're human.


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## Rekd (Oct 21, 2009)

DSLR noob said:


> About ATVs said:
> 
> 
> > DSLR noob said:
> ...



I know, man, I'm just having fun at your expense. YOU opened the can of worms by posting this thread here to show off your ef'd up thread over there. 

I suppose the moral here is be careful what you ask for. :mrgreen:


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## DSLR noob (Oct 21, 2009)

And be careful how you act on a whim when you're really tired.

2 lessons for the price of one thread.


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## Rekd (Oct 21, 2009)

DSLR noob said:


> And be careful how you act on a whim when you're really tired.
> 
> 2 lessons for the price of one thread.



Yeah, but you know what? I've written some of my best flames when I was tired. It tends to bring out the emotion, which can be both good and bad. Hopefully in your case it will turn out good. (From the looks of some of the posts over there it will) :thumbup:


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## bigtwinky (Oct 21, 2009)

Write out the flame, by all means.  Just don't post it.

Alot of that emotion can be turned into something better if you have a more leveled head.


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## Felix0890 (Oct 21, 2009)

That was a great example of someone being an absolute, straight out douched bag.  I'm sorry to put it that way, but you were an ass.  I understand pet peeves but that was not necessary at all.



> I didn't tell the OP to quit taking photos, but to kick down the high and mighty noob photographer attitude that nearly everyone who buys a DSLR goes through



This is what made you look like a douche.  You're the one with the high and mighty attitude.  If you look at the guy's OP, he didn't have any attitude whatsoever.  

"Enjoy!"

:lmao:


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## Overread (Oct 21, 2009)

bigtwinky said:


> Write out the flame, by all means.  Just don't post it.
> 
> Alot of that emotion can be turned into something better if you have a more leveled head.



+1!
Seriously get it out of your system by typing it all out in notepad and then take a little break and see what you have written. Then scrap it and write something proper or walk away from the thread. Far better than getting into long flamewars - where nobody ever actualy wins (barring mods cause they cheat with that locking thing)


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## ErectedGryphon (Oct 21, 2009)

I wrote a flame on a forum once, when I was drunk, and it was a very vulgar doozey (or at least my drunk ass thought it was).  Fortunately in my drunken stupor, i mistakenly hit the cancel post button, instead the the post button.  When I woke up, sober, I went to edit/delete it and apologize, but was relieved when I found it wasn't there!


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## DSLR noob (Oct 21, 2009)

ErectedGryphon said:


> I wrote a flame on a forum once, when I was drunk, and it was a very vulgar doozey (or at least my drunk ass thought it was).  Fortunately in my drunken stupor, i mistakenly hit the cancel post button, instead the the post button.  When I woke up, sober, I went to edit/delete it and apologize, but was relieved when I found it wasn't there!



Is the new lesson to get hammered next time I am feeling heated? lol


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## JamesMason (Oct 21, 2009)

DSLR noob said:


> ErectedGryphon said:
> 
> 
> > I wrote a flame on a forum once, when I was drunk, and it was a very vulgar doozey (or at least my drunk ass thought it was).  Fortunately in my drunken stupor, i mistakenly hit the cancel post button, instead the the post button.  When I woke up, sober, I went to edit/delete it and apologize, but was relieved when I found it wasn't there!
> ...



No never, dunk posting is never good. On saying that, ive drunk so much i can hardly see. Tinternets and alcohol do not mix


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## Dismine (Oct 21, 2009)

wait... you're posting on a forum to gain a moral compass about something you said on another forum? really?

go you... take advice from the internet. thats the key to life success right there.


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## yogibear (Oct 21, 2009)

I love how you critique his use of the word Enjoy.   Such a petty thing to get all twisted up about.

Seeing how you spoke to him about his stuff, I find it almost laughably hypocritical to say he comes off as "a bitt full of yourself."

Sure the photos were not that great but that post just lacked any tact or intelligent feedback that could help him in anyway.


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## Rekd (Oct 21, 2009)

JamesMason said:


> DSLR noob said:
> 
> 
> > ErectedGryphon said:
> ...



Sorry but I gotta call BS. DPing is fun when you've got the right forum. Especially if you've got some eDrinking buddies to join you. 

Nothing says drunk posting like slurring when you type.


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## JamesMason (Oct 21, 2009)

About ATVs said:


> JamesMason said:
> 
> 
> > DSLR noob said:
> ...



ha ha dunk posting


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## DSLR noob (Oct 21, 2009)

Dismine said:


> wait... you're posting on a forum to gain a moral compass about something you said on another forum? really?
> 
> go you... take advice from the internet. thats the key to life success right there.



yep, I figured out the secret.


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## ccssk8ter11 (Oct 22, 2009)

Yup, total douche move. 
That wasn't necessary at all. Nowhere in the post did the kid claim to be pro.
The comment about putting enjoy kind of irritated me too. He said "hope you enjoy" which was not cocky at all like you were saying. 
Man all i can say is you better have some damn good pictures to back up all your bashing.


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## Rekd (Oct 22, 2009)

ccssk8ter11 said:


> Man all i can say is you better have some damn good pictures to back up all your bashing.



 :smileys:

Dinner and a show! :thumbup:


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## Ebag17 (Oct 22, 2009)

bahahhaa "sand in your vagina".


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## DSLR noob (Oct 22, 2009)

ccssk8ter11 said:


> Yup, total douche move.
> That wasn't necessary at all. Nowhere in the post did the kid claim to be pro.
> The comment about putting enjoy kind of irritated me too. He said "hope you enjoy" which was not cocky at all like you were saying.
> Man all i can say is you better have some damn good pictures to back up all your bashing.



nope, my photos aren't great, just didn't like the feel of his DSLR avatar and signature about how he was a photographer like he was professional, not really the post itself as I have said earlier ni this thread, also I have agreed it was incrediby unneccesary, so you're a little behind in this thread.. And it didn't say hope you enjoy unless he edited it it actually said "Enjoi" mispelled just like that, and it was based off of another rant I heard on here once,, that made me start disliking enjoy.


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## DennyCrane (Oct 22, 2009)

I took a look around that forum... 

Before you people bash DSLR noob for his post(s), you might want to see the context of them. It's hardly the atmosphere of a Sotherby's Auction. I could point to some of my posts on other forums that would curl your toenails. But it's par for the course there... it's a political op-ed board. 

The OP dude was drinking from a big ol' cup of Full-o-Me and wanted mass adoration for his mediocre shots. His avatar and user title screamed "I bought a DSLR! LOOK AT ME IM PRO!". 

And he got called on it. Pure Pwnage.


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## DSLR noob (Oct 22, 2009)

DennyCrane said:


> I took a look around that forum...
> 
> Before you people bash DSLR noob for his post(s), you might want to see the context of them. It's hardly the atmosphere of a Sotherby's Auction. I could point to some of my posts on other forums that would curl your toenails. But it's par for the course there... it's a political op-ed board.
> 
> ...



more or less what I was going for, and part of the reason my posts were  about 50% well accepted on THAT forum, and I got several positive reps for it, but still a bit out of line, however easier to understand having felt the atmosphere of the forum.


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## usayit (Oct 22, 2009)

sounds about par for auto forums....


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## molested_cow (Oct 22, 2009)

Haha car forum. I wasted too much of my prime years on one of those. There's no point taking anything serious online. You should be focusing your energy on real things and people around you.


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## NiKOnSLR (Oct 23, 2009)

WOW, can I get some popcorn lol.

Intensive thread there.


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## nickisonfire (Oct 23, 2009)

Yeah you were being kind of a douche bag. 


It's not as if the OP was bragging about his photography skills in the post, so you really attacked him for no reason. 

With that said I've taken a look at some of your photos and honestly I don't think you really have any reason to bash him. Your photos are _okay_ but by no mark are you a professional.

Now it sounds hypocritical and it might seem I'm doing the same thing you did to him (which by no means I am) All I'm saying is you really have to be something to come out and just rip on someone like that


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## Plato (Oct 23, 2009)

DennyCrane said:


> I took a look around that forum...
> 
> Before you people bash DSLR noob for his post(s), you might want to see the context of them. It's hardly the atmosphere of a Sotherby's Auction. I could point to some of my posts on other forums that would curl your toenails. But it's par for the course there... it's a political op-ed board.
> 
> ...



Too late.  We already bashed him.  And rightly so!


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## jamiet757 (Oct 23, 2009)

I liked his second photo, although for the cliff in the background not for the car. I think you were a little rough on him, but you are right he needed a little criticism.


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## Chiller (Oct 24, 2009)

:roll::roll: Car people. :lmao:

.........Im off to paint my hood black, put on a muffler bigger then that on a Kenworth,a spoiler, some nice rimz, tint the windows,add some bling and drive like an arsebag..a growing trend on the highways


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## PHILLIP MAC (Oct 24, 2009)

Wow as a specialised car advertising photographer I think I'd better steer clear of that forum


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## MACollum (Oct 25, 2009)

I got a laugh out of post #5.


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## Joves (Oct 26, 2009)

DSLR noob said:


> battletone said:
> 
> 
> > If I was involved in that I sure wouldn't go around posting to other forums so everyone can see what was said in that thread.
> ...


 
 Why yes you did. I will tell you this every last photo you shoot better be perfect because, if it isnt and I was a memeber of that forum I would crucify your happy @ss. You sond arrogant as hell to me in that thread, actually you sound like a run of the mill troll.


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