# I dont know what I should ask for



## Jeff Canes (Feb 17, 2006)

Little background info: I&#8217;m member of another board that is fan/booster site for the University of Miami sports teams. The site is sponsored the sports magazine Canes Time. I often post some of my photos in the site&#8217;s baseball forum. Today I got a PM for one of their online writer asking about using some of my photos. Now I don&#8217;t yet know if this inquire is only about web use or also the paper magazine. I am assuming just for the web.

So that is the what I don&#8217;t know what I should ask for:

1: is this for the web only 
2: I will not give my rights
3: limited or unlimited usage
4: supply letter to sport info office for credentials request 
5: photo credit 
6: dollars for web and print magazine, I&#8217;m cheap

have I missed any think?


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## hobbes28 (Feb 18, 2006)

That's awesome Jeff!  I think you got all the bases covered (pardon the pun).  If it's printed, I'd ask for a copy of it too if you don't already get it.


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## danalec99 (Feb 19, 2006)

Jeff Canes said:
			
		

> So that is the what I dont know what I should ask for:
> 
> 1: is this for the web only
> *2: I will not give my rights*
> ...


I might be late, but here is my input:

-While drafting Point 2, you might want to offer them either 'One-Time Rights' or the 'Electronic Rights'.
-I wouldn't mention the word 'unlimited'. Nothing is free or unlimited.
-Since it is a magazine, they should already have set prices and therefore you shouldn't have any problems. Just ask for their 'standard rates' for web/print. 

Get the [ame="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1582973954/103-2635389-9499043?v=glance&n=283155"]2006 Photographer's Market[/ame] if you don't have it yet. An invaluable asset for anyone who wants to sell their images to magazines/newspapers etc.

Let us know when your images gets published! :thumbsup:


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## craig (Feb 23, 2006)

Investigate the traffic of the site. Then consider how many photos and at what size they will run. If they use one small photo I say give it to them. If the photos run lede then you will have a little more to bargain with.

Personally I tread lightly with new clients or whatever. Approach it as a mutual agreement as opposed to asking for something.


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## Insomniac (Feb 24, 2006)

Jeff this site has helped me alot with questions such as yours.

http://www.editorialphoto.com/default.asp


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## Jeff Canes (Feb 27, 2006)

Thanks everyone for the feedback, I was under weather most of last week, so I just replied to the magazine today, luckily I was able to talk privately with a pro photog that shots sports regularly at the university last Sunday, he told me that another photog shot for this magazine in pass and had problems getting paid 

So the deal I offer them is:

Electronic Rights (non-exclusive)
1-year period
1 free images of each player web only
Credit line with name & year
Anything be on that I wound expect One-Time Rights and compensation at a fair market rate, also add a little note that my requirements seem fair to me and that hopeful we could build a professional relationship that could possibly expand to other areas


How ever it works out is fine with me


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## Jeff Canes (Feb 28, 2006)

This guy is looking for free images and no work on his end:lmao:



> Jeff,
> To be honest with you, this would be a lot more work than what I was looking for.
> 
> I didn't realize you would be concerned with rights and demands, free images, a 1-year period, compensation, etc.
> ...


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## D-50 (Feb 28, 2006)

Looks like you just lost a potential job.  I would have just let the place use my photo for what ever they wanted its just a couple photos.  You might as well have given them to the magazine and asked for a copy in return. Im sure they would have credited you in the magazine as the photographer.  Personally having a photo I took in a publication vastly outweighs the money I would get from it.  If they began to ask you for more photos you could then strike a deal but the best avenue would have been to just  let them use the first one as a way to get involved with the magazine.  Photography is a very coimpetative field and you need to take all the ins you can get and not act like a sought after professional if you are not.  Seriously how hard is it for them to go and take a couple shots of their own for the magazine. Im sure they liked yours but not enough to go through all the hassle of securing rights and whatnot.  You wouldn't think it was cool if you photo was used in major applications such as a cover page or even more. Worst case you use it to strengthen your portfolio. I bet your real job is a lawyer.


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## Insomniac (Feb 28, 2006)

D-50 said:
			
		

> Looks like you just lost a potential job. I would have just let the place use my photo for what ever they wanted its just a couple photos. You might as well have given them to the magazine and asked for a copy in return. Im sure they would have credited you in the magazine as the photographer. Personally having a photo I took in a publication vastly outweighs the money I would get from it. If they began to ask you for more photos you could then strike a deal but the best avenue would have been to just let them use the first one as a way to get involved with the magazine. Photography is a very coimpetative field and you need to take all the ins you can get and not act like a sought after professional if you are not. Seriously how hard is it for them to go and take a couple shots of their own for the magazine. Im sure they liked yours but not enough to go through all the hassle of securing rights and whatnot. You wouldn't think it was cool if you photo was used in major applications such as a cover page or even more. Worst case you use it to strengthen your portfolio. I bet your real job is a lawyer.


 

That is what hurts all striving photographers, others that will give their photographs just to be published, just to have their name on a published picture. The most important thing to a photographer is...............money, it's a job, we need to get paid, we need to make a living. It's getting harder for photographers, they are getting paid less, and losing rights to their work, because someone else will do it cheap for recognition, and sign any type of contract for the sake of notoriety.


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## craig (Mar 1, 2006)

That letter is a bummer. You lost a good contact. Editorial work is very important. I think that it is more like getting your foot in the door. Clients (especially editorial ones) need to know that your photos are good and you are easy to work with. I also keep in mind that editorial staff has a lot of pull. The money comes in when they call you a second time.


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## Insomniac (Mar 1, 2006)

That guy wasn't going to pay now or ever, you didn't lose anything, you can't make a living on giving it away. It's not like a free sample at the local chicken joint.


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## D-50 (Mar 1, 2006)

If it were a major publication such as Time, or newsweek of course charge them, we are talking about a small U of Miami magazine though, What do you think they will pay you a hundred bucks, thats not enough to make a difference. If you are a professional photogrpher you would of course need to charge but if your just an amerature I think you are a bit ahead of yourself. Get a name and then charge. Insomniac the thing you say about people giving away work for noteriety being bad is ridiculous. Guess what not everyone with a camera can be a proffessional just like everyonme who picks up a basketball is not going to the NBA. If you want to sell you photos, start talking with local shop and have them display you work, set up a show at a local gallery, buy space on a city street during the summer. You ARE NOT going to jump into the world of editorial photography with no name/experience. I stand by my word that this opportunity should have been taken to make a name for yourself even if it means becoming the primary contributing photographer for the magazine for little to no money at least your building a portfolio and somewhat of a name for yourself. Then you take your professional work to another magazine/newspaper/etc who is looking for a photographer and try to get a paying job. Doing free shoots is the most realistic way to get into professional photogrphay unless your lucky enough to have connections or a strong education in photography.


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## craig (Mar 1, 2006)

Insomniac said:
			
		

> That guy wasn't going to pay now or ever, you didn't lose anything, you can't make a living on giving it away. It's not like a free sample at the local chicken joint.



There is a lot of great photography out there. If you cooperate with a potential client they will remember you and they will call you back. I am trying to say that good work is barely half the battle. Editors need to know your name (and work) and that you will hit a deadline without any hassle. Giving away a couple of photos to establish a relationship should not be a problem. When you are established that is the time to start negotiating. Even then you need to understand the clients budget and your position. Publishing is tough in that there is not a lot of money to be had. Especially on the editorial side. Even Reuters only pays $25 for a photo.


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## Insomniac (Mar 1, 2006)

craig said:
			
		

> There is a lot of great photography out there. If you cooperate with a potential client they will remember you and they will call you back. I am trying to say that good work is barely half the battle. Editors need to know your name (and work) and that you will hit a deadline without any hassle. Giving away a couple of photos to establish a relationship should not be a problem. When you are established that is the time to start negotiating. Even then you need to understand the clients budget and your position. Publishing is tough in that there is not a lot of money to be had. Especially on the editorial side. Even Reuters only pays $25 for a photo.


 
I understand your point Craig, but what if everyone gave a few photo's away, that's a lot of free photo's. why would any company pay then. There maybe exceptions but in my opinion this guy wants free pics, and if someone is going to pay, they'll pay the first time. I'm done  . Good day, and good luck.


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## craig (Mar 2, 2006)

Different views are a main ingredient in any forum. I have said my peace as well (insert smiley here). Until Jeff chimes in. Then I am really gonna let him have it. Joking of course.


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## Jeff Canes (Mar 3, 2006)

My main concern was losing control of my images and them think I was giving unlimited rights. I offered them a free image of each player (30 total) for web for the season. And I asked for one-time rights at a far market value for anything that they might what to print in the magazine or used by their parent company. Think my offer was more that far.

Also I was approached my them thru a PM on their web site


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## craig (Mar 3, 2006)

Ok so now we have some facts. May be that you overwhelmed the editor. 30 images is a lot of work. Throw in exclusive rights and fair market value and things can get a little sticky. Commitment is tough for some publishers. Sometimes changes are made all the way until deadline. Both those factors weigh heavy on their decision. Sounds like they were just looking for 1 or 2 images. 

I know little to nothing of web publishing. Your deal is definitely fair. Getting them to sign on the line that is dotted is the main thing. What works for some folks may not work for others. 

Since this a discussion forum... I would have say that I would of handled it differently. Tread lightly and keep an open dialogue. If someone would like to use an image talk with them and figure out size and placement. Then understand their budget and what should be charged.


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