# To crop or not to crop?



## DReali (Oct 23, 2009)

wasn't sure which I preferred so any 3rd party opinions/ideas would be much appreciated


Original




​ 


Cropped


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## c.cloudwalker (Oct 23, 2009)

Frankly, I couldn't care less if you are color blind. I couldn't care less if you are 100% blind either. If you are going to post on a photo forum, expect the same kind of C&C as everybody else.

As for your crop question, you're the artist, you're the only one who should make that decision depending on what exactly you are trying to say. If you don't know what you're saying, why should I?


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## Dagwood56 (Oct 23, 2009)

I would say both work. The first for more of a candid street shot and the second for a casual portrait.


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## DReali (Oct 23, 2009)

c.cloudwalker said:


> Frankly, I couldn't care less if you are color blind. I couldn't care less if you are 100% blind either. If you are going to post on a photo forum, expect the same kind of C&C as everybody else.
> 
> As for your crop question, you're the artist, you're the only one who should make that decision depending on what exactly you are trying to say. If you don't know what you're saying, why should I?



cloudwalker, frankly I couldn't care less if you're a real native american or if you just chose your name because you thought it sounded cool (see how pointless that was?). I couldn't care less if you've had or are still having a bad day, it doesn't change the fact that you're a bit of a an arrogant jerk. I worte my signature just as a friendly tagline not as a request for people to "go easy on me". I can take criticism just as well, if not better than the next person. It's how we learn isn't it? 

I don't believe cropping this photo changes "what I'm trying to say" in the least, it's just a man's face. In fact I wasn't trying to say anything at all. It's just a photo. In my opinion people who takes street shots (apart from the pretentious "artists") never plan what they want to convey before the shot has been taken, they just see something interesting and try to capture it. If the result tells a "story" so be it, but that wasn't the goal they originally set for themselves. The goal is to produce an aesthetically pleasing image, pure and simple. The only difference between these two shots is the crop and I fail to see how this can change "what I'm trying to say". It's just a question of composition. The subject, in case you haven't noticed, is the same in both. I was merely asking for a more expert opinion on the subject of composition. I don't consider myself an "artist". I'm a forensic scientist who enjoys taking pictures in the little free time I have and sometimes I post those on a forum to get some feedback and learn. If everyone knew what they wanted to say the whole concept of criticism would become meaningless and this forum wouldn't exist. People would just say "well, this photo is under-exposed, out of focus and poorly composed because that is what i was trying to say."

As you said " If you are going to post on a photo forum, expect the same kind of C&C as everybody else." and that's exactly what I've done. I posted the photo here expecting some constructive feedback, which to be honest you haven't even come close to providing. 




Dagwood56 said:


> I would say both work. The first for more of a candid street shot and the second for a casual portrait.



Thanks Dagwood. Anyone else?


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## javier (Oct 23, 2009)

While I am no expert on street shooting, I really prefer the first. By cropping in the second one, you loose context. The only thing I would try is perhaps darkening the right a tad just to put more emphases on the feoolow looking at you.
Perhaps a bump in contrast is all it needs.


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## joemc (Oct 23, 2009)

It is funny how photographs speak to you... I my personal opinion! The first is way, way ,way stronger... I would never crop it.... But ...that is just my personal opinion and how the shot speaks to me.

Cheers, Joe


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## porkphoto (Oct 24, 2009)

Me too, no crop. In fact a bit farther away for my taste. I usually do not compose very tight, that so I can do a final crop and compose on my computer. Nice shot , my vote goes to number 1. Thanks for posting.


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## ocular (Oct 24, 2009)

I like it without the crop, the portrait is too personal for my liking


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## DReali (Oct 24, 2009)

Thanks for the help everyone, I shall leave it as it is.


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## Felix0890 (Oct 24, 2009)

It looks 10x better not cropped.  Btw, I think c.cloudwalker thought your signature was part of the actual post, which is probably why he went all Mr.Bitterpants on you.  I don't see why he would think you'd put it in here since the photograph is B&W but still.


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## thrushpuppy (Oct 24, 2009)

What a great photo - please dont crop! Ignore Cloudwalker! Colour not required - and indeed would impede this shot.


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## beni_hung (Oct 24, 2009)

I like without the crop. It tells more of a story.


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## DReali (Oct 24, 2009)

Felix0890 said:


> It looks 10x better not cropped.  Btw, I think c.cloudwalker thought your signature was part of the actual post, which is probably why he went all Mr.Bitterpants on you.  I don't see why he would think you'd put it in here since the photograph is B&W but still.



Cheers Felix. I have no idea what cloudwater was on about, something must have crawled up his cooter that day...



thrushpuppy said:


> What a great photo - please dont crop! Ignore Cloudwalker! Colour not required - and indeed would impede this shot.





beni_hung said:


> I like without the crop. It tells more of a story.



Really appreciate the comments guys, I'm glad you like it.


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## c.cloudwalker (Oct 25, 2009)

DReali said:


> c.cloudwalker said:
> 
> 
> > Frankly, I couldn't care less if you are color blind. I couldn't care less if you are 100% blind either. If you are going to post on a photo forum, expect the same kind of C&C as everybody else.
> ...



I will repeat: I couldnt care less if you are colorblind. Why should I?

Should I judge your photos differently because you are colorblind? I dont think so. And your announcing that you are is a way to tell us we should, me think. If not, please explain to us what we are supposed to get out of it. The friendly would most definitely need some explaining

Again, if you post on a photo forum, be ready for your photos to be judged and C&Ced as photos. Just like everyone elses photos. It is your right to not like this but it is not your right to tell us how to look at your work.

I dont care one bit what you think of my name but it has nothing to do with my photos, unlike your sig. Color blindness is directly related to photography but in no way does it relate to how I should react to your work.



As for the second half of my response, sorry if you dont get it but this is not Hollywood. No multiple choice endings here. You, as the artist, pick what it is you want to say and say it.

If you cant decide what it is you want to say, it is not my/our problem. If you dont know what you want to say, maybe you need to get back to the basics. 

Why do I shoot photos?


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## Big (Oct 25, 2009)

^^^ dude...stop being such a jackass...


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## DReali (Oct 25, 2009)

c.cloudwalker said:


> I will repeat: I couldn&#8217;t care less if you are colorblind. Why should I?
> 
> Should I judge your photos differently because you are colorblind? I don&#8217;t think so. And your announcing that you are is a way to tell us we should, me think. If not, please explain to us what we are supposed to get out of it. The friendly would most definitely need some explaining&#8230;
> 
> ...



Cheers c.cloudwalker, appreciate the time you put into repeating yourself (in a lengthier manner). I've told you what I think and if you can't read or simply are too thick to understand that I'M HERE TO LEARN that is entirely your problem. I asked for some advice, I never asked you to care about whether I'm colorblind or not, my signature is a JOKE (admittedly, not a good one), but it's a joke nonetheless and it's something you certainly haven't heard in a while considering your temper. Again, it's just a crop. My initial hesitation was based on the following: personally I preferred the uncropped version, however I found the back of the lady's head  in the right bottom corner slightly distracting. I therefore thought I would seek some more expert opinions. 
Once again, you haven't done anything to help and I would appreciate it if you would stop badgering me with such useless comments based solely on my signature.
You have officially been promoted from "a bit of an arrogant jerk" to "Major General Jerk" (not my words by the way...that's right, it seems you've made some enemies here in the past). Seriously man, I think you may need a girlfriend, boyfirend or maybe just a simple love session with yourself. Have a beer with your mates and if you don't have any go out and try to make some friends (I suggest you don't treat them the same as people on this forum).

"I shoot photos" because it's fun and I simply enjoy lookng at "aesthetically pleasing images". If I wanted to tell a story I'd write a BOOK! 
In conclusion.....There is nothing dumber than internet arguments, even if you win you end up looking like an idiot.


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## DReali (Oct 25, 2009)

Big said:


> ^^^ dude...stop being such a jackass...



Thanks Big but I don't think he'll get the message


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## Big (Oct 25, 2009)

DReali said:


> Seriously man, I think you may need a girlfriend, boyfirend or maybe just a simple love session with yourself. Have a beer with your mates and if you don't have any go out and try to make some friends (I suggest you don't treat them the same as people on this forum).


You're my TPF hero for the week!


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## Felix0890 (Oct 25, 2009)

Cloudwalker might have to get some surgery to get that big ol' stick out of his ass.  Or get one in there if that's what pleases him. 

I look forward to seeing more of your work, Drealy.


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## blakjak8 (Oct 25, 2009)

Uh Oh...I'm in the minority here. But I like the cropped photo better. To me ( and I haven't a clue what I'm talking about...ask my wife), the un-cropped background distracts my eyes a bit. As for exposure and the technical stuff...again, not a clue. To me photos are like music. I like what I like, and that is it. And I do enjoy your photo. Thanks!


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## DReali (Oct 26, 2009)

Big said:


> DReali said:
> 
> 
> > Seriously man, I think you may need a girlfriend, boyfirend or maybe just a simple love session with yourself. Have a beer with your mates and if you don't have any go out and try to make some friends (I suggest you don't treat them the same as people on this forum).
> ...


HAHA! Thanks Big!


Felix0890 said:


> Cloudwalker might have to get some surgery to get that big ol' stick out of his ass.  Or get one in there if that's what pleases him.
> 
> I look forward to seeing more of your work, Drealy.


Thanks Fleix, I really appreciate all the feedback and support you've given me! Theres more to come so sit tight, I'll keep shooting until I get shot...


blakjak8 said:


> Uh Oh...I'm in the minority here. But I like the cropped photo better. To me ( and I haven't a clue what I'm talking about...ask my wife), the un-cropped background distracts my eyes a bit. As for exposure and the technical stuff...again, not a clue. To me photos are like music. I like what I like, and that is it. And I do enjoy your photo. Thanks!


Thanks blakjak but I'm going to have to go with the general consensus here and leave it uncropped. I completely agree that photos (as well as other art forms) should be appreciated for the feelings they induce on an immediate basis. I'm not saying that one shouldn't analyse the techniques and style incorporated but over-analysis sometimes detracts from the beauty portayed in these works.


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## outdoorsms (Oct 26, 2009)

yep ole cloudwalker is an ass and by the way i love the first one over the croped one


outdoorsms' Photos- powered by SmugMug


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## DReali (Oct 26, 2009)

Haha, thanks outdoorsms.


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## Geotex (Oct 26, 2009)

I like the 1st. In that, you see a man. In the cropped, you see some glasses. Just my .02.


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## NateWagner (Oct 26, 2009)

Well, I definitely like the shot better uncropped. I will say this though, I think I would like it better if it was an actual B&W rather and perhaps a little more contrast than the somewhat dirty sepia look. If you want me to I'll edit it with the look I'm talking about, just let me know.


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## AverageJoe (Oct 26, 2009)

UNCROPPED, I laughed when I saw this.  As for the beef in the thread, just as Cloudwalker states, you are the artist you decide, this is very true and I couldn't agree more but photography is about communication as is this forum and is anyone who sees your photo and if you want input (as you requested) there it is!

Now onto more important questions, who does this guy remind me of? I think it's the dad from The Wonder Years...


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## DReali (Oct 26, 2009)

NateWagner said:


> Well, I definitely like the shot better uncropped. I will say this though, I think I would like it better if it was an actual B&W rather and perhaps a little more contrast than the somewhat dirty sepia look. If you want me to I'll edit it with the look I'm talking about, just let me know.


Thanks NateWagner, appreciate the feedback but peronally I like it as it is. I like sepia and I'm not a big fan of very contrasted images, I believe it has enough contrast as it is.


AverageJoe said:


> UNCROPPED, I laughed when I saw this.  As for the beef in the thread, just as Cloudwalker states, you are the artist you decide, this is very true and I couldn't agree more but photography is about communication as is this forum and is anyone who sees your photo and if you want input (as you requested) there it is!
> 
> Now onto more important questions, who does this guy remind me of? I think it's the dad from The Wonder Years...


Ha! He does! as far as the whole debate debacle goes, all I wanted to say was that I am an amateur and therefore hesitated a bit. I don't have enough photographic experience to discern this sort of stuff on my own. Thanks AverageJoe.


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## epp_b (Oct 26, 2009)

Definitely use the original.  It has a much better sense of environment.


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## Schweitzer (Oct 26, 2009)

I think the first picture looks way cooler. The rest of the scene to the right really makes him seem more static in a moving world. Great expression and the composition is very nice. 


I'm not even going to quote Cloudwalker, I'm pretty sure that his ridiculous comments are still fresh in the mind of anyone who has had the bad luck of coming across them. The only other post I had on this site was one questioning the motives of people like Cloudwalker. His outrageous comments warrant another one: What is your malfunction? Your comments were completely useless and offensive. Do you think that your opinion is worth reading? Why did you tell him that his question is not your problem? That doesn't even make sense. Why do you think that his signature mentioning that he's colorblind is a request to not judge his _black and white photograph_ by the same standards as everyone else? That's totally illogical. It really concerns me that Cloudwalker is in the class of _TPF Junkie_, the class from which I'd most likely be looking for advice. Sorry to bust in on your thread with this crap. I suppose if I ever did look for advice here the only feedback I'd get would be like this  and I'd spend way too much time and mental energy writing useless posts like I am now. 


Keep at it Dreali. You obviously know how to use a camera very well, and it seems as if you have an eye for the non-forensic as well.


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## yogibear (Oct 27, 2009)

Unfortunate the first reply had to be so harsh and ... unhelpful at best.   I agree that the uncropped gives the photo more feeling.  

BTW is that guy about to hurt you?  He looks ominous ale:


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## Hobbes (Oct 27, 2009)

ok I guess for once I have to agree with the others minus mr Jack Ass.
The first one is a lot more interesting simply because of the cropped version kinda looks even more scary and the cropped background made this old man look even more lonely and grumpy hahaha kinda like mr Jack Ass. Maybe that's why he was e-raging because this is a picture of him?? :O


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## Renol (Oct 28, 2009)

I'm not an expert by any means, but I really enjoyed the uncropped version better. It does provide a better feel to the image and in and of itself tells a story IMO. I agree with most others about the cropped one in that it becomes just a random portrait rather than street photography.


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