# A few more development questions...



## Rollei12 (Feb 13, 2015)

My Tetenal kit came in!  Yaaay!

Other than that, I have some black and white questions.  I think I would like to go the liquid concentrate route because getting 12 rolls to develop at once is going to take too long.  For bw photography I can shoot two rolls and get them done fairly quickly.  The Paterson tank came in with the Tetenal kit, a two roller   That's plenty enough.

1) Warming the tank: can I put the tank in hot tap water to warm it up before I put the film and chemicals in?  A room temp tank can't be good right?  I believe the Tetenal kit said something about that.  Can I use tap water or does it have to be hot distilled water?

2) Do I have to use distilled water for development or can I use water from a Brita?  You know those water pouring jugs you can put in your fridge -- they filter all the impurities.  

3) When someone says 1+4 for dilution measurements there has to be a standard system correct?  Everyone seems to understand what the other person is talking about when they say that.  So does 1= 1 liter, 1 ounce, 1 cup?  Same for the 4 or the 9 or the 14.  I can't get around that part because there's been no background info that I can find yet.

4) What is the best way to dry film?  Just let it hang in the bathroom? Use a "film squeegee"?  What do you use?

5) I heard somewhere that when you take the film out of the roll in the darkbag or darkroom, using a tool to take the film out can get wrecked because the felt can scratch the film.  Is this true, or is this method safe?  How do you folks extract the film out of your rolls?

Lots of newbie questions sorry!


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## 480sparky (Feb 13, 2015)

Inever bother with the temp of the tank 'cuz I'm developing at room temp (68°F) anyway.  So the chemicals, tank, reel etc. will all be the same temp to start with.

I just use plain tap water.  YMMV, however, depending on your city's water treatment.

1+4 means 1 unit of measurement + 4 units of measurements.  UOMs can be any volume measurement you want (cups, gallons, quarts, pints etc) , but I usually work with milliliters.  So if you need, say, 375 ml of final liquid, you need 1/5 of that (75 ml) of the chemical, and 4/5 (300 ml) of water.  To figure out how much you'll need, just toss the empty reel into the tank and run water in until the reel is covered..... pour the water into a measuring cup to figure the volume you'll need.

You can, in a pinch, toss some JetDry into the tank of water as your final rinse, then hang the film up and the JetDry will help sheet the water off the film.  I don't know if you can get PhotoFlo any more, but it does the same thing.  But I prefer to use a squeegee.  Just make sure it's clean.

Opening the film cartridge depends on whether you 'roll your own'.  If you do, they (resuable carts) are stupid-easy to open, so you don't have to worry about the felt scratching the film.  Yes, you can use a leader retrieval tool, but I only use that method on factory cartridges that will get tossed once the film is in the developing tank.


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## Torus34 (Feb 14, 2015)

Re question 5.  If you're buying film in cartridges, just use an old-fashioned beer can/bottle opener to pry off an end cap.  Choose the cap with the flush spool end.  Then push on the spool end protruding from the other end cap to start moving the spool of film out of the cartridge shell.  You then pull the spool the rest of the way out, keeping hold of the film so that it doesn't 'telescope' off the spool.  After that, cut off the leader [scissors in the changing bag, if you use one,] and you're set to load the film onto the reel.  Takes a bit of thinking to keep the film held on the spool while freeing the leader for cutting, but go slow and it will work out just fine.


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## Gary A. (Feb 14, 2015)

If you don't have a can opener you can pry apart the cassette with your hands/thumbs at the felt part. Just wedge your thumb into the film slot and peel it back. No need to cut the cut film at the spool, just tear it off.


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## Fred Berg (Feb 14, 2015)

I use distilled water. I bring it up from the cellar a few hours  beforehand so that it can come up to room temperature.

I use a cartridge opener and extract the film, cut the leading edge and load the film. Sometimes it won't load so I carefully unfurl the film and cut the trailing end from the inner reel before proceeding, which I find helps the film to feed more freely on to the spool.

I dilute in this way: 1+25 assuming a total volume of 290ml (Paterson tank, 1 roll of 35mm) means that I need 290 divided by 26 = 11.  290 - 11 = 279. I need 279 ml of water and 11 ml of developer. These numbers are rounded off.

To dry I use a Flo agent in a final rinse before hanging the film in the bathroom. I use a squeegee (dipped in distilled water before use).

Don't take the film down too soon after drying or it will curl!


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## Rollei12 (Feb 14, 2015)

Fred Berg said:


> I use distilled water. I bring it up from the cellar a few hours  beforehand so that it can come up to room temperature.
> 
> I use a cartridge opener and extract the film, cut the leading edge and load the film. Sometimes it won't load so I carefully unfurl the film and cut the trailing end from the inner reel before proceeding, which I find helps the film to feed more freely on to the spool.
> 
> ...



Where did you get the 26 from in your dilution process?


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## 480sparky (Feb 14, 2015)

Rollei12 said:


> Where did you get the 26 from in your dilution process?



1+25


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## Fred Berg (Feb 15, 2015)

Rollei12 said:


> Fred Berg said:
> 
> 
> > I use distilled water. I bring it up from the cellar a few hours  beforehand so that it can come up to room temperature.
> ...



This is the total units of volume that is needed to calculate the numbers. 

The dilution is *one plus twenty-five*, that is one part developer plus twenty-five parts water, so in total *twenty-six parts*. Now that I know this number I divide the total volume, in the example I've used 290ml, by this: 290/26 = 11.15. To keep it simple I round this to 11. 

So the calculation is now 290 - 11= 279, which tells me I need 11 ml of developer plus 279 ml of water.


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## Rollei12 (Feb 23, 2015)

I was reading at another forum about how much chemical I would need for a two spool paterson tank and they wrote about filling it up till about 1/4 inch or 6 mm of chemical are above the spools.  That was with water, though.  Take that and you have the amount you need.  So you don't fill up the tank to the brim?  Or "to the top"?


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## gsgary (Feb 24, 2015)

Rollei12 said:


> I was reading at another forum about how much chemical I would need for a two spool paterson tank and they wrote about filling it up till about 1/4 inch or 6 mm of chemical are above the spools.  That was with water, though.  Take that and you have the amount you need.  So you don't fill up the tank to the brim?  Or "to the top"?


You need 500ml for two reels in a two reel paterson


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## 480sparky (Feb 24, 2015)

I just toss the reels in, pour tap water in until they're completely covered, then pour the water into a measuring cup.  That tells me how much fluid I need.  I then use the formula to figure out how much chemical and how much water.


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## Rollei12 (Feb 24, 2015)

Close to my first roll!  Got the chemicals.

Here's my math...

For the Ilfosol 3, I'm going to go with Ilford's recommendation for 50 ml of chemical + 450 ml of water (for 500 ml, from website).

For the Kodak indicator stop bath at 500 ml (label says 16 ml per litre): 8 ml of chemical in 492 ml of water. (??)

For the Ilford rapid fixer my math comes like this for a 1+4 dilution:
500 ml of total volume (two reels): 100 ml of rapid fixer + 400 ml of water.

Is this correct?


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## 480sparky (Feb 24, 2015)

Developer:  1:9, yes.
Stop: 1:60 ?
Fixer: 1+4, yes.


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## timor (Feb 24, 2015)

Rollei12 said:


> Close to my first roll!  Got the chemicals.
> 
> Here's my math...
> 
> ...


Develop each roll separately. If you make mistake with first, that's only one, not two rolls. Plus twice the fun ! My practice shows advantage of using more developer, than the bare minimum like 400 ml for single roll development. Leave some space on the bottom, don't slide the reel to the end if the shaft, I leave space for pinky and use 450 ml of developer. IMO it is giving smoother tonality to the neg.


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## Rollei12 (Feb 25, 2015)

Is my math right for the indicator stop?


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## gsgary (Feb 25, 2015)

I think fixer is 1+9 for negatives and 1+4 for paper


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## timor (Feb 25, 2015)

Rollei12 said:


> Is my math right for the indicator stop?


Looks OK. But relax man, one more or less will have no influence on the negative. If it will be good or bad, stop and fix have nothing to do with it.


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## timor (Feb 25, 2015)

gsgary said:


> I think fixer is 1+9 for negatives and 1+4 for paper


If you use the good one, Ilford Hypam, 1+4 is for both.


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## gsgary (Feb 25, 2015)

timor said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> > I think fixer is 1+9 for negatives and 1+4 for paper
> ...


I'm sure ilford rapid fixer is 1+9 for negs


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## 480sparky (Feb 25, 2015)

gsgary said:


> I'm sure ilford rapid fixer is 1+9 for negs



You can use the same mix, 1+4, for both film and paper.  using 1+9 for paper simply increases the time.


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## timor (Feb 25, 2015)

Why you guys are using rapid fixers ? They have hardeners.


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## 480sparky (Feb 25, 2015)

timor said:


> Why you guys are using rapid fixers ? They have hardeners.



'Cuz that's all that's available locally.  I don't want to start mail-ordering chemicals.


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## timor (Feb 25, 2015)

480sparky said:


> timor said:
> 
> 
> > Why you guys are using rapid fixers ? They have hardeners.
> ...


Good answer for you, but Gary ?


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## 480sparky (Feb 25, 2015)

timor said:


> Good answer for you, but Gary ?



I can't speak for Gary.


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## gsgary (Feb 25, 2015)

I use ilford rapid fixer


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## timor (Feb 25, 2015)

Rapid. To save some time ?


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## gsgary (Feb 25, 2015)

timor said:


> Rapid. To save some time ?


Sometimes, because sometimes I can have 5+ rolls to develop in the night


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## timor (Feb 25, 2015)

gsgary said:


> timor said:
> 
> 
> > Rapid. To save some time ?
> ...


Oh, now I know, why we have shortage of film here.


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## PWhite214 (Mar 1, 2015)

My Kodak Stop Bath bottle says 2 fluid ounces per gallon, I mixed 1 ounce with 64 of water. 

Phil


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