# I THINK I'M IN TROUBLE; PLEASE HELP



## Mamarazzi514 (Nov 8, 2011)

I got a letter from my town saying they need me to send in the attached form of all my business earnings and expenses because I did not pay my taxes. I am a single mother and the only way I know how to support my children is thru photography. I have a studio but I mainly shoot outdoors since the weather here is gorgieous almost year round. My business is not registered and I never payed taxes and I don't have a license. What do I do please help. I don't want to go to jail and I don't want to lose my business.


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## Trever1t (Nov 8, 2011)

First I'll start out by saying this sounds a bit fishy but let's go with it for just a moment.

Where are you? Like what country?


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## Overread (Nov 8, 2011)

Go talk to a lawyer. 

There really isn't any other advice one can give you at this stage; esp since you've not even stated the country/state that you are in so as to give some reference at least to the general laws in place.

*moving to shop talk*


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## Mamarazzi514 (Nov 8, 2011)

I live in Florida. Talk to a lawyer? There is nothing else I can do?


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## Kerbouchard (Nov 8, 2011)

Mamarazzi514 said:


> I live in Florida. Talk to a lawyer? There is nothing else I can do?



No, and since you didn't set up your business as an LLC, you will probably be personally liable for the taxes and penalties.

I would be talking to a lawyer who specializes in Tax Law very soon.

Honestly, I would tend to agree with the title of your thread...I think you're in trouble, too.


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## Mamarazzi514 (Nov 8, 2011)

How much will I have to pay? Like what percentage? FML


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## Overread (Nov 8, 2011)

You need accurate and reliable legal advice regarding your situation - you won't get that from a forum nor friends (you might get some ideas/pointers at best, but it will be unreliable and often inaccurate with regard to specifics). A lawyer is who you need to talk to - as said above one who specialises in Tax Laws.

Most lawyers will give you a 30min or so free consultation where you can at least find out what your fees for their services will be as well as present your case to them.


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## mjhoward (Nov 8, 2011)

Troll much?  This just can't be real.  OF COURSE if you take in income, especially as a 'business', and don't pay taxes, you are going to get hit with tax evasion.  Of all the things Al Capone did, tax evasion is what landed him in jail for 11 years.


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## Trever1t (Nov 8, 2011)

and after that he retired....to Florida


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## kundalini (Nov 8, 2011)

Trever1t said:


> and after that he retired....to Florida


...... and though it is reported that he died of cardiac arrest, he was also sufferring from untreated syphillis   and pneumonia  .


To the OP, If this is real, you've made your own bed.  Sorry to be curt, but you should have known that taxes are part of the deal.


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## GeorgieGirl (Nov 8, 2011)

I think you can file bankruptcy in Florida and not lose your house. But the IRS are such...well you know.


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## unpopular (Nov 8, 2011)

Oh. I don't know. My guess is this person runs a pretty small business and just made a mistake. I think they're usually pretty willing to work with you if you co-operate, don't they usually work out payment options?

I'm not saying it will be a blast, but don't freak out about it until you have all the information. Just talk to an attorney and get it straightened out.


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## MLeeK (Nov 8, 2011)

Yeah, my friend, you are in some hot water. Go to a lawyer. If you are truly at the low income level try legal aid. 
The city, state and federal governments are so desperate to raise money they are truly seeking out unregistered businesses. They find you either by a complaint or craigslist or by your website if it shows up fairly easily on a search. 
The first advice I always give EVERYONE is to get those legal documents making you a business!!! If you make nothing, then you're only out MAYBE $50. BUT if you are found to be in business and haven't done your legal stuff? You can be held liable for the amount of taxes the AVERAGE photographer should have paid for the time that the gov't and subsequently the courts find you to have been doing business illegally. Not to mention any penalties. 
There are so many loopholes that an attorney can guide you through and GET A BUSINESS CERTIFICATE/Tax ID. FL Dept Rev - Florida Sales and Use Tax
I know I sound like doomsday, but an attorney can help you. DO NOT try to talk with the gov't yourself. It's so easy to incriminate yourself without saying anything it's not funny. That's what they will be trying to do.

In the mean time you need to get together your receipts for EVERYTHING related to doing business-print orders, equipment purchases, gas to and from shoots, vehicle expenses (it's only a little business, but your attorney will help you with it), computer software, computer hardware, even your electric and everything and then have an attorney and accountant guide you on how much can be deducted as a business expense. That will help to reduce what you owe as your actual "income" will be less. You will also need any record of ANY payment received from any customer. Paypal, bank, receipt book... whatever you have.


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## BlairWright (Nov 8, 2011)

Seriously? I fail to see how indoor or outdoor photography has to do with tax evasion. I also fail to see why you would make a post to a forum on anonymous people before doing the obvious which is to call a lawyer.

Sorry for being cold but this does not seem real...

If this is real you should know that once they have you file locally the state and federal govt will be after you. You need legal representation ASAP


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## MLeeK (Nov 8, 2011)

Would you be located in Tampa?


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## unpopular (Nov 8, 2011)

Seriously, this is only going to be a big deal if you don't do anything. Get an attorney, figure it out. I seriously doubt she owes anything aside from maybe a fine. The problem is the IRS/State of Florida doesn't know that. You might be hiding away $300K of revenue for all they know.

Just buck up. I'm sure it won't be that bad.


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## unpopular (Nov 8, 2011)

And seriously guys. Who uses tax code to troll a forum?

How old are you people?


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## tirediron (Nov 8, 2011)

Since when does a municipal government care about earnings and taxation?  Business license?  Sure...  Insurance?  Maybe.  I call troll!


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## Mamarazzi514 (Nov 9, 2011)

I am not a troll. Thank u in all that helped!


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## Overread (Nov 9, 2011)

If anyone wants to "call troll" or in any other way alert the site moderation to possible suspect content please use the report post button; rather than accusations in the thread itself. Not only is there a good chance that the mods might not see the thread and the posts; but it also means that you don't, inadvertently, insult new members to the site.


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## unpopular (Nov 9, 2011)

tirediron said:


> Since when does a municipal government care about earnings and taxation?  Business license?  Sure...  Insurance?  Maybe.  I call troll!



Good lord. Are you really that deep in squaresville?! Nobody is going to troll over tax code! That's just ridiculous. I can see what you're saying, maybe she misunderstood the letter or there is some nuance in the law where she lives. Either that or it's a scam, which is entirely likely in scamtastic state of Florida. 

But she's not a troll. And it's super, super rude of you to accuse her of that.

ETA:

Actually, thinking back to the OP; I'm pretty sure in the US business licensure is handled by the county or city. I know I've seen City of Billings business licenses at my CU, I remember thinking that was odd because usually it's the county. I noticed that you are Canadian - maybe this is the cause for confusion?


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## JAC526 (Nov 9, 2011)

Good luck and even with an attorney get ready to pay.

They will require taxes in the form of whatever your marginal rate is plus some type of fine/penalties for failure to pay.

As a business you need to register and estimate your quarterly taxes from now on.  Even if you aren't an LLC or S corp or C Corp or whatever.


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## ghache (Nov 9, 2011)

Im not sure but i think there is only a small amount of citys in the states that has city income taxe. seems like you live in the wrong city. 

Pay your taxes because they are going to butt **** you one day or the other.


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## gsgary (Nov 9, 2011)

Mamarazzi514 said:


> I live in Florida. Talk to a lawyer? There is nothing else I can do?



pray, because here in the UK they can go back 6 years and estimate your earnings and you have to prove them wrong


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## MLeeK (Nov 9, 2011)

ghache said:


> Im not sure but i think there is only a small amount of citys in the states that has city income taxe. seems like you live in the wrong city.
> 
> Pay your taxes because they are going to butt **** you one day or the other.



I'm guessing it's actually sales tax here... I believe there is no STATE income tax in FL, but there could be a city income tax... I know some cities/towns in various states have one for those who work within the town. And if it was a city income tax, you can expect the state sales tax guy to be knocking at your door next. It's only just begun because after that it will be the IRS.


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## KmH (Nov 9, 2011)

Consider that there are various kinds of taxes.
State and federal income taxes.
State sales and use taxes.

The OP can expect her town will notify the state, and the state will notify the feds.

It is very common in situations with an unregistered business that the 'business owner' does not have adequete business records for the various government tax agencies to use for accurately assessing the unpaid tax liablities, and for setting the various fines and penalties that accompany getting caught.

In that type of a situation the government agencies will just guess how much tax is owed and what the penalites and fines will amount to.

If the OP is on the level it is highly likely her financial circumstances are about to be radically changed for the worse. 

Her town may, or may not, allow her to register/license her business now.

Frankly, I think her biggest concern will wind up being the state (for income, sales, and use taxes) and the feds (for income taxes).


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## tirediron (Nov 9, 2011)

unpopular said:


> Good lord. Are you really that deep in squaresville?! Nobody is going to troll over tax code!


You don't spend a lot of time on Internet forums, do you?  People will troll over anything that will get attention.



unpopular said:


> That's just ridiculous.


Yes it is, but it happens.



unpopular said:


> But she's not a troll. And it's super, super rude of you to accuse her of that.


And you know this how?



unpopular said:


> I noticed that you are Canadian - maybe this is the cause for confusion?


I wasn't aware of any confusion, I simply indicated that I thought it was unusual for a municipality to collect any sort of income-based tax.  I talked to a friend who lived for some years in Florida (Who, granted, did own/run a business) and hadn't heard of it either, but anything is possible.

Having been suitably chastised by moderators and members, I offer my apologies to the OP for my unsubstantiated accusation.  That aside, since the OP was, by her own admission unlicensed and unregistered and did not comply with relevant income/tax reporting legislation, she did not have actually have a business, she was engaged in an illegal undertaking.  I don't know whether this is a crimminal matter in the State of Florida or not, and while I don't dispute the OPs good intention, it seems to me that the only option left which may save her is to immediately retain a qualified tax and business practice attorney.


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## ghache (Nov 9, 2011)

MOVE OUT OF THE COUNTRY!


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## MLeeK (Nov 9, 2011)

This was just posted... Fauxtography is a Crime | You Are Not a Photographer


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## sm4him (Nov 9, 2011)

As a fellow single mom, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I just happened to see this, after having read this thread today. I suggest you watch it, and Call. A. Lawyer. Like, yesterday.
Fauxtography is a Crime | You Are Not a Photographer


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## unpopular (Nov 9, 2011)

You people are blowing this so far out of proportion. It's absurd. Talk to a lawyer, they prob won't charge for a consultation. Go to legal services if you qualify. If you're just making enough to pay the bills, you probobly don't actually owe anything aside from maybe a stiff fine - which they will likely work out some kind of payment schedule - just like any other fine which you can't immediately pay.

There is NO NEED for you people to stress this woman out any more with goofy advise like "leave the country". Just take care of business, pay what you owe, and make sure all your paperwork is in order for the future. It's a big deal, yeah, it is illegal. But there is no need to freak out until you have all the information.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Nov 9, 2011)

Tax problems? Ask a photography forum! They'll know! And it's FREE!


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## Bitter Jeweler (Nov 9, 2011)

For what it's worth...Local tax authorities tend to be the worst. You'll also have to deal with the Feds.

Both organizations will charge you penalties, they may wave some, but not others.
You can easily set up payment plans, but be realistic in what you can pay.
If you don't pay your minimum, you will be assessed more penalties.
The Feds charge a fee for setting up a payment plan as well.

Your problem now, since the locals know, you will have to pay estimated taxes. 
I don't think there is a way around it, because they charge penalties for late payments.
So your problem is compounded because not only do you have to pay past taxes, you also have to save up for,
and pay estimated current tax.

In my experience, the feds won't force you to pay estimated taxes. But you still need to save money up to avoid
being hit again all at once.


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## MLeeK (Nov 9, 2011)

Do you really think "LEAVE THE COUNTRY" was a serious suggestion? If you can't laugh as the sh1t hits the fan, life is gonna get pretty damn depressing.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Nov 15, 2011)

So, what did you find out, OP?


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## bennielou (Nov 17, 2011)

I have no idea why people would think this is a fake question.  This happens all the time.  I don't think the OP is talking about Federal Taxes which is often confused by State Sales Taxes (which are garnered by the County, which is I think what the poster is saying).

I've warned people about this more times than I can count, because I do see it happen ALL THE TIME with people, but I think there is STILL a ton of confusion about Federal and State Sales Taxes.  Here is a brief intro into the difference:

1.  You pay your Federal Income Tax once a year based on your yearly income.

2.  Your State Sales tax depends on the state you work from, and you pay that every three months based on your overall photography sales including products.  

That's about as simple as I can explain it.

As I've warned NUMEROUS times, the States are wise to photographers.  They know that people buy a camera, set up a website, and sell photography under the table.  They know these photographers aren't paying state sales taxes.  (That's the 4 times a year one).  The do google searches for photographers in the county, and if they aren't registered they find you.  Maybe not today, but eventually.  Actually you want them to find you as soon as possible, because the penalties and interest are WAY more than it would be Federally.

You will not go to jail, but you will have a lien put on you.  If you own anything, they will take it if you don't pay.  They will look at all future income and seize that.  You will have your bank account taken over.  They do not care if you are a single mother.  They do not care that you are a nice person.  They do not care that you didn't know.  They do not care.

And I'm not being an a$$hole here:  I didn't know any better either several years back and had to pay a 5 figure settlement in 30 days to save my property.  Fortunatley I had the money.  Most people don't and that is why I type my fingers off trying to warn people.  Unfortunately people think it's just a scare tactic.  You prove that it is not.  Within the past few years I've seen this happen to at least 20 people I know, and that is ONLY the people I know that have told me because they know that I went through the same thing.  They wanted advice.  

My advice would be to do things right in the first place.  But if you were ignorant to the tax codes, then go and plead your case to the tax athorities.  They won't take much off, but they might take some off.

Best of luck.....


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## 2WheelPhoto (Nov 17, 2011)

I'm in Tampa too, and folks the local "gubment" doesn't miss their share of the take on small business.  

Or anyone else, I have to pull a permit just to replace a window in my house.


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## bennielou (Nov 17, 2011)

2WheelPhoto said:


> I'm in Tampa too, and folks the local "gubment" doesn't miss their share of the take on small business.
> 
> Or anyone else, I have to pull a permit just to replace a window in my house.



The city (or county in this case) miss nada for long.  Either your neighbor rats you out (or competitor) or you get found out some other way (like websites), but eventually you will be found out.

Do I agree with craploads of taxes?  Oh hell no.  But it's the law, and until it changes, I have to do what they say or lose all my stuff.  I have to pay permit fees which I don't agree with, I have to get my homeowners association to tell me if my fence is ok, which I don't agree with, I have to do all kinds of stuff I don't agree with, but that is the way it is.

Being ignorant about it, or acting like it doesn't exist, or not agreeing with it will not help you when it happens to you.  They want their money, end of story.  They don't care what you have to do to get it.


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## gsgary (Nov 17, 2011)

Does anyone know if the **** has hit the fan yet ?


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## bennielou (Nov 17, 2011)

unpopular said:


> You people are blowing this so far out of proportion. It's absurd. Talk to a lawyer, they prob won't charge for a consultation. Go to legal services if you qualify. If you're just making enough to pay the bills, you probobly don't actually owe anything aside from maybe a stiff fine - which they will likely work out some kind of payment schedule - just like any other fine which you can't immediately pay.
> 
> There is NO NEED for you people to stress this woman out any more with goofy advise like "leave the country". Just take care of business, pay what you owe, and make sure all your paperwork is in order for the future. It's a big deal, yeah, it is illegal. But there is no need to freak out until you have all the information.



I agree that she just needs to talk to the tax authority and perhaps a free legal person.

However, from experience, at least in my situation it was what I owed, plus a 28 percent fine and several thousands of dollars in penaties (I'd made quite a bit of money and it was based off of that), payable within 30 days.  (That was AFTER my tax attorney and I met with them).

While I don't agree with the "Leave the country" advice, I think it's best at this point just to take it.  Really, she has no other choice.  Lesson learned.  I know I learned my lesson.  This is EXACTLY why it's important to inform photographers.  It is also exactly why it's a bad idea to disregard the advice that MANY people all over the internet have warned of.  We all think it won't happen to us.  Maybe we just didn't know any better, and that is why it's so important for us to warn people and talk about it BEFORE it happens.  (And it's not realistic to act like this is no big deal).

I honestly feel sorry for this lady.  I've been there, and it sucks beyond sucking.

But at the same time, this should be a wake up call for a lot of photogs thinking they can just slide it all under the table.  Someone has to be an example.  (I, this poster, and thousands of others are just such an example).

The best thing we can do is to warn others who maybe don't understand.


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## bentcountershaft (Nov 17, 2011)

Overread said:


> If anyone wants to "call troll" or in any other way alert the site moderation to possible suspect content please use the report post button; rather than accusations in the thread itself. Not only is there a good chance that the mods might not see the thread and the posts; but it also means that you don't, inadvertently, insult new members to the site.



Totally calling troll on this post.


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## Ryan L (Nov 25, 2011)

What I heard through from a friend of mine Bonita Bitrell...is that the OP was paid a visit by some suits. I think she be wearin a pair of cement shoes. ..but i ain't one to gossip, so you ain't heard that from me!


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## andywag (Mar 4, 2012)

Whether the OP is real, a troll, just a plain idiot or not it at least highlights one thing.
That is that just having a Dslr and calling yourself a business because you take a few snaps for your friends for a few dollars, is potentially full of pitfalls.
How many thousands of other photography "businesses" (i.e. newbies with a camera) could potentially fall into this area.

I have absolutely NO sympathy for the OP or for anyone else who gets caught like this.
If you are going to call it a "business" then you should be aware of any rules and regulations from whether or not a license is required to what if any tax liabilities you may have.


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## jake337 (Mar 4, 2012)

Mamarazzi514 said:


> I got a letter from my town saying they need me to send in the attached form of all my business earnings and expenses because I did not pay my taxes. I am a single mother and the only way I know how to support my children is thru photography. I have a studio but I mainly shoot outdoors since the weather here is gorgieous almost year round. My business is not registered and I never payed taxes and I don't have a license. What do I do please help. I don't want to go to jail and I don't want to lose my business.


Oh my.  If you never registered or pay taxes, then you technically don't own a business.  So you do not have a business to lose.Start over.  Do it right from the beginning.  Good luck tax evader.


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## Bossy (Mar 4, 2012)

Yay old thread


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## Overread (Mar 4, 2012)

Using search to find interesting and informative old threads to read = good thing
Posting on old threads without anything that really adds or extends the conversation to make it more current = bad thing 

Check post dates when posting people


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