# Photos for my job?



## DGMPhotography (Nov 2, 2015)

Hey there:

So my place of employment recently mentioned that they needed photography for the staff done and referenced a photographer they know. 

Being a photographer myself, I mentioned that I could also take them and they loved that idea. 

But they were wondering if they should hire me for my photography business (i.e. pay for the photography as if they were my client) or if I'd just do it as part of my job?

I'm thinking I should just do it as part of my job (brownie points are awesome), but would like to hear others' thoughts. 

Thanks!


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## Braineack (Nov 2, 2015)

have them hire your business.

it's work otuside your normal duties that you should be compensated with more than a pat on the back.


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## D-B-J (Nov 2, 2015)

Braineack said:


> have them hire your business.
> 
> it's work otuside your normal duties that you should be compensated with more than a pat on the back.



This


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## gsgary (Nov 2, 2015)

Some companies have it written into employees contract that if you do work outside your job you need their permission, have you checked your contract, personally I wouldn't do it


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## DGMPhotography (Nov 2, 2015)

Yeah, I've had a contract like that before. That hasn't come up in this job. They're a bit more laid back about it. 

But when I was interviewing I did mention I had creative skills (like photography) which may have been part of what got me the job...


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## sm4him (Nov 2, 2015)

If I'm being honest, I'd probably just do it as part of my job, to endear myself to them (which tends to have wildly varying outcomes, anyway).

On the other hand, as long as I'm being honest--if I had to support myself on what I make from photography, I'd be living under a bridge, bumming Mickey D gift certificates from passers-by so I could get a burger. Or some fries. Probably just the fries, since it IS Mickey Ds. 
Seriously, I'd be doing good just to buy a new flash on what I've made from photo shoots. Doing it for free, at least I don't have to worry about whether they got what they paid for.


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## tirediron (Nov 2, 2015)

DGMPhotography said:


> ...brownie points are awesome...


How many brownie points does a pound of steak cost these days?


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## Scatterbrained (Nov 2, 2015)

Personally, I wouldn't do it at all.   Any issue that arises from this job could breed resentments that would carry over into your regular work environment.


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## KmH (Nov 2, 2015)

When push comes to shove your employer will cast you aside like a waded up piece of scrap paper, regardless how brown your nose is.


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## Designer (Nov 2, 2015)

DGMPhotography said:


> So my place of employment recently mentioned that they needed photography for the staff done and referenced a photographer they know.


I would offer to help vet the photographer, and only if his work totally sucked, would I have offered my services.  Seriously consider his portfolio, and honestly compare it with your own.  If you can't do any better,  don't get in the way.  Also; he is probably trying to support himself and perhaps a family, so why take bread out of his mouth?


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## dennybeall (Nov 3, 2015)

If this was years ago when old guys like me were working in the same company for 33 years I would have said do it without question. Doing extra work and demonstrating personal worth used to be more worthwhile than it is now.
Now, I'd say do it for the money or, unless your company has photographer jobs you'd be auditioning for, don't do it.


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## beckylynne (Nov 3, 2015)

I did this for my place of employment.  I only had to do portraits for about 30 people.  Nothing really came of it other than a pat on the back for a few weeks.  I was however, eventually pulled into the office and given a spontaneous bonus.....a very nice one.  I was then more formally thanked for going above and beyond.


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## DGMPhotography (Nov 4, 2015)

ughh..


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## imagemaker46 (Nov 4, 2015)

I would have them hire you through your photo business.  It's great to bank points with the boss, but my experience is that you'll never get to collect on them.  People will use you until they don't need you, then it's back to status quo.  You doing them a favour would soon be forgotten.  You can give them a break on the fees if you want, but you need to draw a line in the sand, otherwise they will keep coming back for free.


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## Big Mike (Nov 4, 2015)

I've done photography for a couple companies that I've worked for.

The first one, I did a small product shoot 'on the clock', mostly to see if I could pull it off and and get usable shots.  We agreed that the next time it came up, they would hire my company, which they did.

When I switched jobs, I specifically mentioned my photography skills as an asset.  And while I don't have a specific contract that would define my duties, I do photo shoots for them without having to hire my company.  They pay me well enough and it gets me away from my desk.


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## DGMPhotography (Nov 10, 2015)

So I talked with my boss about it again after taking everyone's feedback into consideration to see how she would feel about hiring my company. 

Her concern was conflict of interest. If they're paying me as my business to go out and take photos, then technically I wouldn't be on the clock for the company, but would still be getting paid both for my salary and for my business. 

Additionally, she did bring up the fact that part of the job when I applied was to include creative work, like photography. 

I think I should probably just do it as part of my job. Maybe add a watermark and call it a day.


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## waday (Nov 10, 2015)

DGMPhotography said:


> I think I should probably just do it as part of my job. Maybe add a watermark and call it a day.


If you're doing it as part of your job, you probably shouldn't add a watermark. It's not your work, it's your company's work.


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## DGMPhotography (Nov 10, 2015)

Well... the governor's photographer does the same thing. It wouldn't be my normal watermark. 

Something more like 

Daryll Morgan, Company

In plain font.


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## tirediron (Nov 10, 2015)

waday said:


> DGMPhotography said:
> 
> 
> > I think I should probably just do it as part of my job. Maybe add a watermark and call it a day.
> ...


 Probably true, but whose gear will you be using?  Doing work for the company on the clock would be fine, especially if there's a line such as 'and other creative work' or similar in your contract, but they'd best stump up for the gear.  If not, then I would hold fast for a rental fee.


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## waday (Nov 10, 2015)

DGMPhotography said:


> Something more like
> 
> Daryll Morgan, Company
> 
> In plain font.


That works. Hope they use it!



tirediron said:


> Probably true, but whose gear will you be using?  Doing work for the company on the clock would be fine, especially if there's a line such as 'and other creative work' or similar in your contract, but they'd best stump up for the gear.  If not, then I would hold fast for a rental fee.


I guess I'm just used to my company/industry practices; I'm not sure about others. We don't use names on reports, unless signing and sealing something.

When I write reports for work, I don't include myself as an author. When I take pictures in the field, I don't add watermarks. It's my company's work, not mine. Prepared by "my company", not me. Even though I'm one of the only people that will perform such work in the entire country, I don't put my name down. (Sometimes, I don't really want to put my name down...)

But, other companies or industries may work differently? I hope they do, so that DGM can list his name on the photo as a watermark, or below as a footnote whenever the pictures are displayed.

Apologies, I may be a bit jaded at the moment.


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## tirediron (Nov 10, 2015)

waday said:


> ...Apologies, I may be a bit jaded at the moment.


Aren't we all? I simply meant that as, "I don't know, but you're probably right, so I suspect a watermark might not fly".  My real point was relating to the use of gear however.  If the employer doesn't want want to hire his company due to conflict of interest (understandable), then they'd better not expect him to use his own gear!


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## waday (Nov 10, 2015)

tirediron said:


> waday said:
> 
> 
> > ...Apologies, I may be a bit jaded at the moment.
> ...


Totally agree! I'm not sure that'll fly, but I hope it does!


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## Braineack (Nov 10, 2015)

Last two places I worked at, I had them by me a Nikon, lesnes, and lights...


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## DGMPhotography (Nov 10, 2015)

Yeah.. the gear thing is a good point. However, I don't think they'd be willing to spend the money I'd ideally need for the setup I'm used to. I do think, however, that it's fair to ask for maintenance of my gear. New batteries, etc.


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## DGMPhotography (Nov 10, 2015)

Braineack said:


> Last two places I worked at, I had them by me a Nikon, lesnes, and lights...



1. Did you get your ideal set up? 
2. What happened to the gear after you left? Just curious.


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## DGMPhotography (Nov 10, 2015)

Renting could be an option... I just don't want them to think I'm trying to get something out of them. Especially when they know I have my own gear.


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## tirediron (Nov 10, 2015)

DGMPhotography said:


> Yeah.. the gear thing is a good point. However, I don't think they'd be willing to spend the money I'd ideally need for the setup I'm used to. I do think, however, that it's fair to ask for maintenance of my gear. New batteries, etc.


 Just go on-line and calculate what it would cost to rent it from Lens Lenders or whomever for that period of time and bill them accordingly.  The other questions is liability:   What happens if somone knocks your camera off a table and destroys it?


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## Braineack (Nov 10, 2015)

DGMPhotography said:


> Braineack said:
> 
> 
> > Last two places I worked at, I had them by me a Nikon, lesnes, and lights...
> ...



I typically got whatever I asked for. 
Are you asking if I walked away with thousands of dollars of equipment that wasn't mine?


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## DGMPhotography (Nov 10, 2015)

Braineack said:


> DGMPhotography said:
> 
> 
> > Braineack said:
> ...



1. Nice!
2. Lol, no. I'm just wondering if you were _the _guy for their photography needs, what happened when you left? I'm trying to think of how to justify it to my boss to spend all that money, only for me to leave in 14 months (the end of my contract).


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## Braineack (Nov 10, 2015)

They want the job done, they buy the equipment.  Pretty easy to justify.

One job I took pictures for our online retail sites when we were outside our normal scheduled studio time.  We'd typically release new products once a year and have a pro take care of the shots and charge us an arm-and-a-leg.  When I cam on board they had two cheap clamp lights and a PnS camera.  I printed a list of "here's what I need" and a week later it arrived in my office.  Basically a D5000, a lens, a few continous softboxes with stands, a lightbox, and a small white backdrop. When I left, it all stayed for the next person that took my position.

At my next job I worked in a communications team, and one of our tasks was coming out with a monthly corp. newletters.  I requested a camera, lens, flash so I could take pictures of people/things featured in articles.  IIRC it was a D5100, 24-105mm, and a SB600.

Eventually they wanted to start producing web videos, and they bought be a huge green screen, large continous lights, a teleprompter and a whole bunch of other crap i asked for -- including some ~$300 microphone for voice recordings, along with a few lapel style ones for interviews. It all stayed when I left for the next person to use -- a lot of it never left the boxes they came in before I left the company.


Why justify it for your boss?  he wants pics, you need a camera to do it.  simple as that.

He doesn't want to buy you one, then you can't perform your duties.


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## Designer (Nov 10, 2015)

I don't see how you get your regular pay at the same time as your moonlight pay.  If I was your boss, you would be on vacation leave the day you take the photos.  Paid, yes, but taking it out of your vacation time.

Alternatively; you're on the clock, receiving your regular pay, just taking photos that day.  No extra pay for that day.


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## bhop (Nov 10, 2015)

I've done photos for my work, as part of my job. I'm doing it on company time, not outside of my normal hours. I'm normally a graphic designer, but i'm still part of the creative team, so to me, it's not really a big deal. I actually consider it a 'fun change of pace' from what I normally do, so I don't have any issue with it. I also use my own equipment and don't 'require' the company to buy it for me. This is something that only happens a few times per year, for me to bring my gear in for a day is not a hassle at all, and let's be honest, the few pics you're going to be taking on this project really isn't going to cause much 'wear and tear', plus, for me, i'm comfortable with my own stuff already.

Bottom line is, I like my job, my boss, and the company I work for. They are good to me, and I don't mind helping them out without trying to get something out of it on the side.  I sometimes go out for drinks and things with my boss off hours, to show the kind of relationship we have, so maybe my work is different than most.


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## Averil_white (Nov 10, 2015)

I've done stuff for work before, (not necessarily photography, but still...) using my own equipment, but I was doing it on their time, and therefore I considered it as part of my pay.  I was getting my regular pay, but I was just doing something different.  I work in retail, and I considered it no different than being asked to go on the tills  or down to the warehouse to pull stock for the day (as I often am asked to do!) instead of working in the office.


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## vintagesnaps (Nov 10, 2015)

Seems like it depends on if it's part of your job, and they provide the equipment (and no, it's probably not going with you when you leave! lol and I don't know that you could determine what they'd do with it after you leave, that'll be up to them). Or it's contracted if done on your time with your equipment.

But I guess it depends how involved or time consuming this gets, maybe using your camera on work time if they provide the media card? but then, what about usage? copyright? licensing? Would this be work for hire if it's on work time? All that fun stuff needs to be figured out.


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## KmH (Nov 10, 2015)

For those in the US wanting a better understanding of US Copyright "Work For Hire" laws.
http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ09.pdf


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## Designer (Nov 10, 2015)

I've worked at firms that have specified that any creative effort/results become the intellectual property of the company.  Regardless of what time of day I did the creating.  Or what day.  Sometimes even for years afterward.  

They own it, not me.  They might pay me more than my regular pay, or they may choose not to.  But they own the rights to it.  This is something that I signed upon taking employment with the company.  I was free to sign the agreement or not take the job.  

If my job description said: "And related duties unspecified" then anything they ask me to do was part of my job, which I was expected to do while being paid my regular pay.


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## SquarePeg (Nov 10, 2015)

I bet you're wishing you'd kept your mouth shut and let them pay for that other photographer to do the work...


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## Parker219 (Nov 10, 2015)

^ Yep, because now his boss is most likely  thinking "wow, this guy asked for more money on top of what he is getting paid".

Even though the boss is conveniently forgetting about equipment use and editing time. Unless the OP will be editing all the photos on the companies time.

At this point I want to see some of the finished photos.


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## Dave442 (Nov 10, 2015)

At least now it sounds like you can spend some time taking pictures at work.


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## DGMPhotography (Nov 12, 2015)

^ Yes. 

Haha, I told them I'd do any photography they want. The way I see it, I get to have fun at working doing the thing I love. 

I'm using my own camera, but any equipment I don't have that I need for a specific job, they will buy.


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## desertrattm2r12 (Dec 12, 2015)

This is a slippery slope and only you can make the decision. I've seen it turn out bad and I've seen it turn out worse. You would need to articulate just what you would do and what the limits are and they need to really know exactly what they want. You might find yourself dealing with mr. middle management and learn mr. big management hates the way they were done. You need to determine exactly who you are working and what he wants and what his expectations are. I did some work for a non-profit once and the woman was very nice. But her husband really ruled the roost and he'd put the kabash on just about everything I wanted to do. In the end I bailed out.


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