# Highly Detailed Portraits



## fonsolo (Oct 16, 2012)

Hello all!
I will apologize in advance as I am rather new to photography, as this room would imply. I use a Nikon D5100 and I was woundering what the best set up would be(lens, lights, settings, accesories, etc.) to take highly detailed portrait photographs. So far I only have the kit lens(18mm-55mm) and one that I barrow, a 55mm-200mm, and I also use a cheap 3 strobe light set up which I purchased from Cowboy Studio. I usually shoot with the full 16mp and crop to around 2400x1600. All of the photographs are for digital use only. So is this possible? Will I need to upgrade to a better camera? I do have a little money to invest, but I certainly am running on a smaller budget so pricing info would be appreciated also.
Thanks in advance!
FonSolo


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## fonsolo (Oct 16, 2012)

I should probably divulge that the photos will be nudes so the focus will be on the entirety of the body, and not just the face or torso.


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## .SimO. (Oct 16, 2012)

First, are your cowboy studio lights really strobes or just continuous lights? Your camera nor gear is really the issue. I honestly think you should save the money and do some serious reading and understanding of basic photography and the style you are trying to shoot.  And if you are shooting nude models, don't you want them to shine as much as possible? Just some thoughts.


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## Bram (Oct 16, 2012)

First off, this is my $0.02. You're brand new to photography or don't know much about it, so I hope the d5100 was donated or gifted to you since that's a hard camera to learn on. Second, as mentioned above are you sure their strobes and not continuous lighting? I would recommend looking at Paul C. Buff Alienbee lights, yeah they're a bit more pricey but they are the best money can buy. I use my AB1600 everywhere I go, well I try to at least.   As much detail as possible huh? If you have a three strobe setup you will have 0 issues with detail and lighting. I would use the triangle setup of 2 lights at the models 11 and 2 o'clock and then another one at the models 6 o'clock. This will be a good start, play around with it. I use AB1600 and an SB600, not the greatest of lighting equipment. However nicely detailed and nicely lit photos can be created even without strobes. GOOD LUCK!


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## 2WheelPhoto (Oct 16, 2012)

Cambridge has the answers you seek, check out the tutorials: Digital Photography Tutorials


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## Designer (Oct 16, 2012)

fonsolo said:


> I also use a cheap 3 strobe light set up



I also am wondering what kind of "cheap strobes" these are.  I am not aware of any "cheap strobes" that are actually any good.

The camera is adequate, IMO, especially for a beginner.  Your experience level, lenses, and lights will be the determining factors.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Oct 16, 2012)

> Price is what you pay. Value is what you get.
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Some lighting has zero value.


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## KmH (Oct 16, 2012)

I don't get why a D5100 would be hard to learn on, since it's an entry-level DSLR, includes a User's Manual, and works like all other DSLR cameras.

Alien Bee lights are not the best money can buy, but are decent, inexpensive, entry-level mono lights. Alien Bees have a color temperature drift when the power level is changed, and they are about the only strobe light that the flash duration gets longer, rather than shorter, when the power level is turned down.
The light quality ABs produce is quirky in other hard to define ways too, again making the statement "they are the best money can buy" a case of confirmation bias.
For most Alien Bee buyers the price counts for more than the technical deficiencies in their performance.

High quality monolights are made by Profoto, Elinchrom, Hensel, Broncolor.

For the OP - If you shoot at 16 MP and then crop to 3.84 MP (2400x1600, 3:2 aspect ratio), do you resize and resample the pixels *before* you crop?

Or are you just resizing from the D5100's native 4928 x 3254 (3:2 aspect ratio) pixel resolution.

Detail is a function of resolution. Resolution is about having as many pixels as possible, which is why pro grade portrait cameras have lots of pixels. (Nikon D3x, Nikon D800, Canon 1DX.

If you want "Highly Detailed Portraits" you need every pixel your camera has available for you to use. If you're going to crop, I recommend you crop in the camera viewfinder before you release the shutter.


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## Designer (Oct 16, 2012)

bump for Keith's reply


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## Vautrin (Oct 16, 2012)

The lens you use is super important more so than the body of the camera.  just by upgrading lenses youll see a huge jump

in addition before you muck about with resizing try to get it right

Also lenses have different degrees of sharpness at different aperetures.  a lens may be for instance sharpest at f8 you gotta do some research

also it sounds silly but shutter speed.  at 1/15 a sec you might lose sharpness due to vibration from just holding the camera

on top of that its worth pointing out most pros use software to sharpen images.  this makes a huge diffence


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## fonsolo (Oct 16, 2012)

Thank you everyone for the replies. The lights are certainly strobes, two softboxes and one barn door. Thank you @WheelPhoto, I'll check that out later on today when I have more time. @Vautrin, I was somewhat suspecting that the lens might be an issue. Any recommendations? And I do use Photoshop religiously for sharpening and other post processing, as my background is actually in graphic design.


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## Vautrin (Oct 16, 2012)

the more i think about it, you should check out my websites section models

Theyre not nude, and i havent updated it in a while but i think thats what makes my website a great example.

one of the models photos are all black and white.  that was shot with a d3100 with the kit lens. more to see what i could do than anything else.  and photos are basically out of camera as is (although i did convert to b&w and adjust the contrast in lightroom)

in case youre wondering, a d3100 is a step down from the 5100


the other shots in color are with a d700 with a much
better lens (sigma 50mm f1.4 or sigma 20-70mm f2.8).  this is a pro or almost pro camera and lens combo

is that what you mean by sharp or do you want something more?

to really really get sharp images i shoot in raw and sharpen using photoshop or niks pro sharpener software

this makes a huge difference

out of camera images (esp in jog) will tend towards the soft side

also if you are shooting nudes what is the point of super sharp?  sharpen too much and youll just see all the skin blemishes in excrutiating detail


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## Vautrin (Oct 16, 2012)

also how much do you know about photography?  do you understand depth of field and apereture?

if not youll need to start there


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## Derrel (Oct 16, 2012)

Highly-detailed??? Shoot at f/8, with flash, using a good lens. The secret is that, at f/8 almost any modern Nikkor lens, prime or zoom, qualifies as "a good lens", and with today's higher-MP count sensors, like 16 million pixels, there is  PLENTY of detail as long as the depth of field is adequate and the focusing is done very carefully, and the image is not blurred from camera shake or subject movement. SHooting hand-held in anything but good,bright light is asking for slight degrees of blur. USing electronic flash freezes most movement dead in its tracks. Flash is kind of tricky to use for low-key,subtle lighting, unless the user is skilled in flash, so, indoors using window light or continuous lights, a tripod and a still subject is needed.


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## Vautrin (Oct 16, 2012)

do you have examples of a) the type of shots youd like to shoot b) shots youve tried that werent as "detailed" as youd like?


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## jamesbjenkins (Oct 16, 2012)

fonsolo said:
			
		

> I should probably divulge that the photos will be nudes so the focus will be on the entirety of the body, and not just the face or torso.



So you're brand new to photography and you're trying to shoot nudes? Classy.

You should probably focus on the fundamentals of the craft before you worry about the best gear and certainly before you shoot nudes.


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## Vautrin (Oct 16, 2012)

james; everyone has interests...  if he wants to shoot models whats the problem?  not everyone wants to photograph architecture


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## Vautrin (Oct 16, 2012)

im more impressed someone agreed to nudes with an amateur...  which says to
me maybe its a significant other, in which case, let the kids have fun

or maybe its a
model, which means hes paying for it, so let him
gey what he
spent good money on


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## KmH (Oct 16, 2012)

If you're brand new to photography and your interest is in shooting nudes - go for it.  :thumbup:

No doubt learning the fundamentals of doing photography and lighting will be beneficial, and learning the fundamentals by shooting nudes is as good as any other way of learning the fundamentals.


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## Derrel (Oct 16, 2012)

jamesbjenkins said:


> fonsolo said:
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WHY NOT? For hundreds of years, beginning art students all over the world have taken *life drawing* classes, as a way to learn how to draw and paint the nude human form. I mean come on James!!! Nudes are an academic tradition!

And besides the hundreds of years of academic tradition, there's *naked chicks!!!*


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## amolitor (Oct 16, 2012)

If I was gonna shoot nudes, I'd actually hire as expensive a model as I could afford, and lay it all out for her (or him). I'd want an experienced model who was willing to work with me, with the clear understanding that for the most part money will pass from me to the model, and learning will pass in the other direction. A good model is worth every penny. The cheaper you go, the less of a bargain, generally. The right significant other can be fine, but they don't tend to know anything and, not being paid, can become bored and/or exasperated with the process fairly quickly.


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## Vautrin (Oct 16, 2012)

yeah but you can (and should) do research online

are you doing classic nudes?  just her against a plain backdrop?

something sexier maybe (like lingerie)?

her innothing but a leather jacket?

also remember half of portrait shooting is building rapport

if you start off the shoot ordering her to get naked and pulling out a basket of sex toys, shell probably run

better the first shoot is clothed (at least bikini) amd you spend some time talking to her and getting her comfortable

also, i kid you not, if you have a smart phone you can download posing apps showing classic poses

or you can find them to print out online

do you know the model btw?


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## fonsolo (Oct 16, 2012)

Yes, I should have added that I'm not a complete beginner. I do understand certain concepts, like ISO, f-stops, aperture, as well as camera models and there features.  I'm not to informed, however, on lenses, and I have yet to find the right combination of settings to achieve what I am looking for. I haven't tried shooting RAW yet so that may help, and with my strobes I have had a hard time shooting at any shutter speed faster than 1/25(I use a hotshoe transmitter, any suggestions on this would help as well).
Here is a photo I took recently, using one strobe outside. This photo has not been edited what-so-ever and was shot as a JPG.
http://i.imgur.com/e22Tz.jpg

And here are some links to a few examples of something I would like to achieve, or at least attempt 

_*NSFW*_ - imgur: the simple image sharer
_*NSFW*_ - imgur: the simple image sharer


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## Vautrin (Oct 16, 2012)

1/25 is waaaay to slow

it depends on the camera and if there is image stabilisation (vr in nikon terms) 

but i find anything under 1/60 too slow and 1/120 is the slowest i like to go

you need to be doing 1/125 at f8 and the images will look a whole lot better

also detail is lost in jpeg.   what settings do you use?

better is raw theres no compression artefacts

but you know , it may sound silly, but line up some beer cans or soda cans and take pictures.  vary aperture and  shutterspeed

try with and without a tripod

youll start to understand what is blurry because shutter is too slow and what is depth of field


oh yeah if you STILL cant get a sharp picture, can you get it at all with that camera?   lenses do break sometimes...  ive also heard of non nikon lenses that dont autofocuscorrectly


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## Vautrin (Oct 16, 2012)

the sharpness youre looking for should not be difficult to get at all


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## fonsolo (Oct 16, 2012)

@jamesbjenkins There's always one condescending jerk who has nothing to add but still give's his 2 cents. Thanks for making this discussion complete! 
@vautrin Any idea how to get a faster speed or slow the flash on the strobes down? When I attempt anything faster than 1/25, it appears as if it shoot before the flash. As I mentioned, I am using a hotshoe transmitter, but I'm willing to explore alternatives.


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## fonsolo (Oct 16, 2012)

@*jamesbjenkins* Oh, and forgive me for beating this subject to death, but your so-called "fundamentals" of photography aren't too far off from those of various other art forms which I am knowledgeable in. I just need to know specific workings of the camera which is exactly why I am here.


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## Mike_E (Oct 16, 2012)

1/25th max shutter sync is bad wrong.

Have you checked to make sure that you don't have the flash set to rear sync?

Also, for best results a tripod is in order.


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## fonsolo (Oct 16, 2012)

Alright, I think I have this figured out. Thank you all for your help and for teaching me so much in a day! I'll post some of the results later on this week if anyone is interested(non-nudes probably).


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## Designer (Oct 16, 2012)

fonsolo said:


> Yes, I should have added that I'm not a complete beginner. I do understand certain concepts, like ISO, f-stops, aperture, as well as camera models and there features.



Pardon me if I have a difficult time believing that.  Shooting at 1/25, and missing the flash doesn't add up.  Perhaps you should have another look at your remote trigger to make sure it is working.  

Furthermore, I did go to the link you provided and looked at the photo for which you said you used a strobe.  I don't see an evidence of any light being used in that photo.


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## fonsolo (Oct 16, 2012)

Designer said:


> fonsolo said:
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> > Yes, I should have added that I'm not a complete beginner. I do understand certain concepts, like ISO, f-stops, aperture, as well as camera models and there features.
> ...


You got me, I lied about using a strobe in that particular photo 'cause I wanted you complete strangers to think I was cool. The photo was actually shot in the shade but the flash allowed me to get the ISO I desired. Look, I came here for help, not to deceive people into thinking I am more knowledgeable then I actually am. If you have something useful to say I would be glad to hear it. If not, why don't you go troll someone else.


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## Vautrin (Oct 17, 2012)

fonsolo - chill.  its actually possible to shoot and have the flash not go off.  dont bite the head off of people trying to be helpful.  and dont flame the trolls because it just increases noise for others

are you shooting in manual mode?  usually i go to manual mode and dial in 1/250 sec and f16 ( or whatever im looking for).  then i adjust the flash brightness by trial and error

its necessary to do that because in camera metering wont work.  you can by a meter with flash trigger but these are expensive and you still need to shoot manually


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## fonsolo (Oct 17, 2012)

Sorry, please forgive my outburst but I have grown weary of condescending "experts" on internet forums. I do shoot in manual mode. I don't have my lights with me right now, but I will try this at a shoot I have scheduled tomorrow. The models are friends of mine, so they will have to bear with me while I figure it out   I do really appreciate your advice!


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## fonsolo (Oct 17, 2012)

Vautrin said:


> 1/25 is waaaay to slow
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> it depends on the camera and if there is image stabilisation (vr in nikon terms)
> 
> ...



I tried without the strobes outdoors using your suggested settings and the results were quite an improvement. I think I used 1/600 and f8 if I remember correctly. This is sans post processing.

http://i.imgur.com/MNfcH.jpg


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## Dao (Oct 17, 2012)

With the lights, 1/25 do seems slow for me.   Also double check on flash sync speed of your camera and do not exceed that .


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## Designer (Oct 17, 2012)

fonsolo said:


> Designer said:
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It doesn't help to lie, it just confuses the issue, making some answers you get irrelevant to the actual problem.

Until we learn otherwise, we consider your initial statements about a "problem" to be true.


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## Tee (Oct 17, 2012)

amolitor said:


> If I was gonna shoot nudes, I'd actually hire as expensive a model as I could afford, and lay it all out for her (or him). I'd want an experienced model who was willing to work with me, *with the clear understanding that for the most part money will pass from me to the model, and learning will pass in the other direction.* A good model is worth every penny. The cheaper you go, the less of a bargain, generally. The right significant other can be fine, but they don't tend to know anything and, not being paid, can become bored and/or exasperated with the process fairly quickly.



Mark this date.  I actually agree with everything amolitor said in this post.  Top shelf models are more than a pretty face.  They understand the relationship of the camera, lights, and you.  It's not all about sitting there looking pretty.  She'll know that when you move she'll adjust her body to keep things in proper relationship to each other.  Paying a top model is an investment towards a solid portfolio.   




fonsolo said:


> And here are some links to a few examples of something I would like to achieve, or at least attempt
> 
> _*NSFW*_ - imgur: the simple image sharer
> _*NSFW*_ - imgur: the simple image sharer



Those examples are NOT images you should aspire to re-create.  Go here: Fine Art Nude Photography Network - art of nude photography (Warning: NSFW!!!) and study fine at nudes.  Your examples above fall under the GWC (Guy With Camera) category.  Don't be a GWC.  There is nothing wrong with learning by shooting nudes.  Heck, I shot nudes pretty consistently for 2 years before changing mediums.  However, I strongly suggest taking a few lighting classes and gaining an elementary understanding of studio lighting before doing so.  There are tons of local shops, MeetUp groups and individual photographers that teach these days.


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## Vautrin (Oct 17, 2012)

1/600 or 1/60?

Most strobes have some minimum shutter speed.  I am for instance unable to shoot my strobe faster than 1/250 sec exposure

So there is some trick getting the images on camera

Your flash can fire (or seem to) and you can not get anything


Just remember if youre using your flash right if the flash isnt on camera itll be dark


Also if your shutter speed is too fast youll see a bright side and dark side of the photo (from where the shutter went up to fast)

also, a rough estimate is shutter speed should never be less than 1/focal length

So on a zoom lens like 300 youd need to shoot really fast (1/300 sec) because even a small vibration will cause a large shift in whatthe image views

Thats just a rough guide though...  what you really need to do is shoot shoot shoot and
see what happens.  a lot of photography is about knowing your equiptment

Then if a shot is blurry its because you wanted it that way (maybe slow shutter speed on purpose with front or rear sink)

but youll fimd out all about that later


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## fonsolo (Oct 17, 2012)

@*Designer* Lol, that was what is commonly referred to as sarcasm. Thanks for all your helpful advice though!(<-- also, sarcasm)
@*Tee*, I understand what you're saying, but I'm honestly not shooting artistic nudes, so much as erotic nudes for an adult website(I probably should have divulged this earlier as well). I would have to say that erotica is far more focused on visibility and detail than composure, but that's just my personal opinion as a frequent user .
@*Vautrin* The most recent example didn't utilize a strobe, it was all natural lighting which allowed me to shoot at 1/600. That's good advice about the focal length and shutter speed correlation, I will remember that!


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## Designer (Oct 17, 2012)

fonsolo said:


> @*Designer* Lol, that was what is commonly referred to as sarcasm. Thanks for all your helpful advice though!(<-- also, sarcasm)



FYI for all Noobs:  Sarcasm doesn't work on the internet.

Another tip for Noobs:  State your question, don't lie, and don't try to inflate your own level of experience.  You'll get the help you asked for.


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## fonsolo (Oct 17, 2012)

Haha, thanks for the tip!


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## Tee (Oct 17, 2012)

Well, if an adult website is going to allow you to photograph porn for them, then I'd say you should brush up on 2257 forms and model releases first.


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## fonsolo (Oct 17, 2012)

Tee said:


> Well, if an adult website is going to allow you to photograph porn for them, then I'd say you should brush up on 2257 forms and model releases first.



It's actually my own site, and It has been operational for several months. I am educated on the legalities and because I had a few questions regarding photography doesn't mean you should assume that I am completely oblivious  _So let's just stick to the question at hand_*.* If you are curious, feel free to check the site out at < moderateded >. There is no nudity so far as I am using PayPal as a payment portal and CCBill requires a large deposit and a long waiting period for Visa credit card usage, but I'm working on changing that soon.


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## Tee (Oct 17, 2012)

You could go on Model Mayhem and contact photographers for dirt cheap or free (for exchange for a membership) and have quality images in no time.  Seriously, pro images just don't happen in a few days.


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## fonsolo (Oct 17, 2012)

I do use MM to find models, but I'm honestly not disappointed with the product I've been delivering so far in comparison to the competition. Eventually, I may have to hire another photographer, or programer (which ever I decide I like doing the least), but not any time soon.


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## Tee (Oct 17, 2012)

I mentioned MM for photographers not models. Either way, rock on dude.


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## fonsolo (Oct 17, 2012)

Tee said:


> I mentioned MM for photographers not models. Either way, rock on dude.


Ya, I got that. Thanks!


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## Vautrin (Oct 18, 2012)

if you ever need a photog based out of amsterdam let me know

ive even got a portfolio of nudes i could show (although artistic)


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## fonsolo (Oct 18, 2012)

I would certainly consider that, I understand that there are a lot of beautiful women in the Netherlands. PM me and we can talk about rates


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## smithers (Oct 26, 2012)

Greetings Fonsolo,

 From reading the thread and checking out the sample photos you took it looks like you need a better understanding of how your flash/strobes interact with your camera. Check out this site Strobist: Lighting 101 for some great info on manual lighting, read/research, and practice some more. Good luck.


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## o hey tyler (Oct 26, 2012)

fonsolo said:
			
		

> Sorry, please forgive my outburst but I have grown weary of condescending "experts" on internet forums.



Interesting. Everyone else seems to have grown weary of dishonest noobs.


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## Compaq (Oct 26, 2012)

As more and more is revealed from this thread, the happier I am for not stopping to read. N00b turned out to be a porn producer...













That's a new one!


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## ceejtank (Oct 26, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


> fonsolo said:
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Welcome back to the forums Tyler.


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## fonsolo (Oct 26, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


> fonsolo said:
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I wasn't being dishonest but thanks for chiming in! Here is another picture I took the same day. If you look at the reflection in her glasses you can clearly see the softbox. Have a good one, though!
http://i.imgur.com/USus7.jpg


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