# Funny how things change... (self contradictions)



## DanOstergren (Feb 2, 2017)

I was looking at some of my older work today, and it got me thinking about certain opinions, beliefs and peeves that I used to hold onto very tightly.

A couple of years ago if someone were to utter the words "needs fill light" or "strobes would have made this better" to me, it would make my head spin and I was quick to react in complete defense. I was very adamant about using only natural light, and believed it to be better than any other type of lighting. Now almost every time I shoot, I use a reflector for fill light, and if given the opportunity, I will jump into a studio with tons of excitement and no hesitation. It took me years to figure out that light is simply light and what matters is how you use it, regardless of the multiple times it was said to me before I accepted it. I still prefer natural light, but only because I'm cheap and it's free to use, not because it's supposedly the best light.

I would never shoot above ISO 100 and would do everything I could to avoid even the tiniest grain in a photo. Because I primarily shoot in available lighting, there were times that I would even end a shoot simply because I was losing light at the end of the day and I would have to go to a higher ISO in order to continue. Now I rarely shoot below ISO 800, even on my old 5DC, and graininess is a common aspect of my photos.

I used to edit my photos in such a way that made it obvious that my photos were put through a photoshop treatment. Now, I usually do everything I can to make my photos look like they've never been edited, even though I retouch 99% of my work.

In my head the tiniest negative comment towards my work was a huge blow to me personally, and I would often react accordingly. I'm still temperamental, but I've learned when to ignore and let things that bother me go, when to accept critique, and how to defend my decisions without being _as_ obnoxious. I will always defend certain aspects of my work, I'm stubborn that way, and admittedly I have a tendency to overreact and then backtrack, but the level of overreaction seems to be waning. I never claimed to be perfect. 


So, what are some of the things you used to in your photography that you believed very adamantly, that you now contradict?


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## cherylynne1 (Feb 2, 2017)

DanOstergren said:


> So, what are some of the things you used to in your photography that you believed very adamantly, that you now contradict?



A few years ago, if someone told me I sucked, I would say, "No way! I'm really good!"

Now if someone tells me I'm really good, I say, "No way! I totally suck!"


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## DanOstergren (Feb 2, 2017)

cherylynne1 said:


> DanOstergren said:
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> > So, what are some of the things you used to in your photography that you believed very adamantly, that you now contradict?
> ...


Haha, I know exactly what you mean.


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## bumkicho (Feb 2, 2017)

DanOstergren said:


> So, what are some of the things you used to in your photography that you believed very adamantly, that you now contradict?



I used to look at a picture with many likes or faves, and try to see reasons why many people like it. Now I look at images and try to understand why I like or dislike them.


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## pgriz (Feb 3, 2017)

So much of what we do is tied up with what we think we ought to be doing, or imagine ourselves to be.  We self-identify in certain ways because that's the way we want to be seen by others.  When someone utters a comment that is contrary to the image we are trying to maintain, well...  them's fighting words.  One of the pleasures of getting older, is getting some perspective on what matters, and what doesn't.

I've seen your work when you first showed up on TPF, and there was some talent on display, although coloured with edginess and some bravado.  Over time your art got more nuanced, less brash, more insightful.  If I can make an analogy to the evolution of my wife's art work - she used to want to tell the world what to see, and now she creates the place where we are encouraged to see for our selves.   She's always been very good at what she does, but now she has enough confidence in her work to let the viewer discover it as opposed to wanting them to see it immediately.

When I look at your portfolio, I love the way you use the light and shadow to let us imagine we can recognize the person who you are photographing.  We don't know who they are as people, and yet there is an intimacy there - sometimes even uncomfortably so.  There is a level of ambiguity that plays with our perception of what we're seeing, of who we're seeing.  It takes a certain self-confidence to leave that ambiguity in there.  It is also a point of self-awareness - let the audience come to their own conclusions.  

My own battle as a photographer is to try and remove my self from the images I'm making, to remove my ego, my viewpoint, my desire to say "I was here!", and allow my viewers space to see through their own eyes what I have witnessed through mine.  I can't say I'm very successful at it, yet.  I think you're further down that road, and I hope you let us know what the view is like.


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## mmaria (Feb 3, 2017)

I want to have a proper answer but I simply can't recall anything where I contradicted myself. There must be some things and if I remember them I'll edit my post.

Following what you wrote... I use, all available to me, light sources (mostly natural light), I have no desire to try flash, I haven't tried strobes, continuous lights, I haven't shot anything in a proper studio... but not because I don't wan't to or I have a certain opinion on other light sources but because I haven't had a chance to try mentioned.

I never get angry or defensive when someone criticize my work because I'm not emotionally attached to things I create. I'm not sure how to explain this but I consider them as something that really doesn't belong to me.

PS. How do you battle the noise?


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## Overread (Feb 3, 2017)

It's taken a few years but we've trained you up well Dan 


Direct contradictions are hard to think of for myself; the closest is learning to use higher ISO values - although for me this wasn't so much a contradiction as battling two theories against each other -- keeping the noise low and keeping action sharp --- and learning where the limit points were and that really the action most times trumps the noise. 

I guess contradictions depends a little on how strict one is when shooting; some people are very strict with what they use. X settings for Y situation or nothing. Or what variation they allow is minor or constrained heavily. Hence why I often try, whenever telling people "what settings to use" to remind them to experiment. To use suggested settings as a starting point and to build from there.


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## runnah (Feb 3, 2017)

If you are the same person you were a year ago, you have failed.


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## pgriz (Feb 3, 2017)

mmaria said:


> PS. How do you battle the noise?



Don't know about Dan, but a finger in each ear usually works for me, accompanied by "La, la, la, I can't hear..."  But that only works for some people.  And only some of the time.

If you're thinking photographic noise...  I'm beginning to embrace it.  Crank up the sharpness, let it be the texture.  A bit like painting on canvas.  For some images, the texture really works, while for others it doesn't.  It's another one of those "it depends" things.


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## john.margetts (Feb 3, 2017)

mmaria said:


> PS. How do you battle the noise?


I hated noise with a vengeance until I recently bought a (relatively) cheap Panasonic that only does noise. I bought the camera for photographic note taking, not finished pictures, but this camera has got me embracing noise.


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## ronlane (Feb 3, 2017)

@DanOstergren, I can relate to everything that you've said in your post. It is a really good learning experience for me to go back and look and think about and read notes from when I first started in 2012. 

Thanks for sharing.


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## SquarePeg (Feb 3, 2017)

For me, I originally got involved with photography with the intention to focus on landscapes and was not the least bit interested in portraits or abstracts or "fine art" photography.  Now, 5 years later, shooting landscapes mostly bores me.  I'm much more interested in the abstract or fine art possibilities when I'm framing a shot.  And very surprisingly to me, I find myself more and more thinking about portraits.  

I also originally fell into the ISO 100 or bust trap but had to learn to adapt to using a higher ISO because I am still afraid of my flash, lol.  That is something I'm determined to master this year.


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## pgriz (Feb 3, 2017)

SquarePeg said:


> I am still afraid of my flash,



Embrace it.  It shall set you free.  And use it in manual mode, off-camera - that will teach you the inverse-square relationship and a bunch of really important concepts.  My guide to this was Mastering Canon EOS Flash Photography, by NK Guy, rockynook books.  In your case, you're using Nikon equipment and I found a number of books (google: mastering nikon flash photography) that seem to cover the same area.  The beautiful thing is that once you're comfortable with using your flash in manual mode, it opens up so many additional opportunities when otherwise you would have just passed up the moment.


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## table1349 (Feb 3, 2017)

The Ultimate Self Contradiction:

_"Old age is when broadness of the mind and narrowness of the waist change places."_

Red Skelton


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## rexbobcat (Feb 4, 2017)

Well, I guess the most flagrant contradiction was thinking I'd make this a career in some way. lol.


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## DanOstergren (Feb 4, 2017)

pgriz said:


> mmaria said:
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> > PS. How do you battle the noise?
> ...


The funny thing is that this isn't far off. Basically stop listening to other photographers who tell you noise is bad, because it's limiting anyone to believe that.


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## DanOstergren (Feb 4, 2017)

rexbobcat said:


> Well, I guess the most flagrant contradiction was thinking I'd make this a career in some way. lol.


It only happens quickly for a select few. I know some absolutely amazing photographers who took 20 years before breaking through. Whenever I feel unsatisfied with where I am in my own career, I just remind myself of this and keep pushing forward. 

Also, you can work as a retoucher too. I've made some good money already this year retouching other photographer's work.


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## DanOstergren (Feb 4, 2017)

SquarePeg said:


> For me, I originally got involved with photography with the intention to focus on landscapes and was not the least bit interested in portraits or abstracts or "fine art" photography.  Now, 5 years later, shooting landscapes mostly bores me.  I'm much more interested in the abstract or fine art possibilities when I'm framing a shot.  And very surprisingly to me, I find myself more and more thinking about portraits.
> 
> I also originally fell into the ISO 100 or bust trap but had to learn to adapt to using a higher ISO because I am still afraid of my flash, lol.  That is something I'm determined to master this year.


pgriz has the right idea. If you want to get good with flash, you just have to jump right in and get the experience. You might suck at first, but sucking at something is the first step to being really great at something.


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## DanOstergren (Feb 4, 2017)

Overread said:


> t's taken a few years but we've trained you up well Dan


I can definitely attribute a portion of my growth to the feedback I've received in this forum, even if I didn't want to hear it at the time.


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## cauzimme (Feb 4, 2017)

I used to compare my portfolio with the one that critize me, telling me, that their opinion didn't matter since they were less good than I, then I realize, their critics were valid, I was close minded. I thought I was good, now I know i'm not bad, but good, doubting, and with doubt, my desire to grows keeps pushing me. 

I also used to think grain and noise were bad, now I shoot a lot at Iso higher than 800. 
I also used to think that boudoir was all about bright light, now i'm in love with moody shots in low light situations. 

Growing is fun! Not easy but fun.


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## DanOstergren (Feb 4, 2017)

cauzimme said:


> I used to compare my portfolio with the one that critize me, telling me, that their opinion didn't matter since they were less good than I, then I realize, their critics were valid, I was close minded. I thought I was good, now I know i'm not bad, but good, doubting, and with doubt, my desire to grows keeps pushing me.
> 
> I also used to think grain and noise were bad, now I shoot a lot at Iso higher than 800.
> I also used to think that boudoir was all about bright light, now i'm in love with moody shots in low light situations.
> ...


Moody low light is my fav!


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## rexbobcat (Feb 5, 2017)

DanOstergren said:


> rexbobcat said:
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> > Well, I guess the most flagrant contradiction was thinking I'd make this a career in some way. lol.
> ...



One of my issues is that my visual sensibilities don't align with what people want to buy. I'm not a very good replicator of Pinterest, and I'm not "unique" enough to thrive on my personal "vision" or whatever you want to call it. I mean, I've taken very few photos in the last year and a half and what I have taken has been mostly mundane and garners very little response on all channels.

I don't photograph what/how people want, and when I do it's a one-off that doesn't translate into any other opportunities.


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## DanOstergren (Feb 5, 2017)

rexbobcat said:


> DanOstergren said:
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I think you're wrong about your self perception. Seriously you're really good, but you're holding yourself back because you don't see it and you think your personal view of yourself is reality when it's only in your own head.


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## mmaria (Feb 6, 2017)

DanOstergren said:


> pgriz said:
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> > mmaria said:
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I don't think noise is necessarily a bad thing at all and don't really care what "noise free" photographers say... I was genuinely interested in what do you do in PS to fix it, seeing your work...


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## mmaria (Feb 6, 2017)

DanOstergren said:


> rexbobcat said:
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I agree with Dan.
@rexbobcat I totally understand, because I'm somewhat similar to you.
I'm on some kind of a "break" from photography trying to understand who and what I really am in photography... I realized that there's no way I could make compromises (well, if I absolutely had to I would of course). I can't replicate and can't be "serial producer" of "all the same" wanted images. Same portraits with slight variations... can't do that either... but the real problem is that I don't know what I can. And also, I think that success (any kind) will come to me when I'm ready and stand behind what I do.
I was scattered all over and didn't have any goal except that I want to learn as much as possible.

I'm not sure if any of this is applicable to you or if will help you any way ( writing this helped me though  )

And also... I don't think you're "not "unique" enough to thrive on your personal "vision" or whatever you want to call it" You are unique and your work is unique. I think I already wrote what I think about your work. Take your time and think about you. What is "your photography"?

and oh, yes... I love your portraits 

eta: I've just been to your website. It's unsolicited I know, but my advice is to reorganize it, cull the number of images there... and also... where are those beautiful ballet dancer images? portraits of your friend you posted here?

There's a lot of heart in some of your photography.


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## jcdeboever (Feb 6, 2017)

Shooting for just over a year, I do not know enough to have a contradictory thought.  I guess the biggest difference for me is that a more expensive camera doesn't give you better results. I thought I was upgrading to my D3300 when I bought the D7200. I have come to learn (expensive lesson) it is not the right tool for me so I am back to square one. The same thing happened when I was painting, I had to stumble my way through various tools and techniques to discover what and how I wanted to work. Two full truck loads later, I gave all my old stuff to my son. Buy & sell link coming soon...


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## smoke665 (Feb 6, 2017)

jcdeboever said:


> that a more expensive camera doesn't give you better results. I thought I was upgrading



That my friend is why manufacturers are always offering newer/better models but never quite better enough to give you all that you need. Makes for repeat business


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## DanOstergren (Feb 6, 2017)

Seriously @rexbobcat , if I haven't made it clear yet, I absolutely love your work and you've been on my list of inspirational photographers for years. Please don't give up on yourself.


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## DanOstergren (Feb 6, 2017)

mmaria said:


> DanOstergren said:
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If it's excessive, I do a very minimal amount of luminous noise reduction and sometimes color noise reduction in ACR. If I were to post the full res photos here though you would still see noise in the photos, especially after sharpenning.


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## Gary A. (Feb 6, 2017)

Very thoughtful.  Thank you for sharing some inner thoughts, feelings and retrospect. I have always admired and enjoyed your work.


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## droaingsong (Feb 7, 2017)

Your work is inspirational to so many.


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## DanOstergren (Feb 7, 2017)

Gary A. said:


> Very thoughtful.  Thank you for sharing some inner thoughts, feelings and retrospect. I have always admired and enjoyed your work.





droaingsong said:


> Your work is inspirational to so many.


Thank you! 

I love hearing other's perspectives and experiences as well!


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## chuasam (Feb 18, 2017)

I used to believe that you shouldn't manipulate the subject and you should photograph it as it is.
I used to believe that you have to really think through each image and shoot slowly, now I want to capture the feeling of the moment.
I used to idolize Richard Avedon; now it's Ellen von Unwerth
I used to look at lighting diagrams and wonder how could anyone do that much; I sketch up lighting diagrams on a routine basis *LOL*


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