# 70% think online piracy is OK?



## KmH (Jul 20, 2011)

If you put it anywhere online, expect it to be stolen:

Technolog from msnbc.com - 70 percent find piracy socially acceptable, says poll


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## Kerbouchard (Jul 20, 2011)

Count me as one of the 30%, but then again, I often find myself in the minority on MSNBC polls.


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## Derrel (Jul 20, 2011)

In China, I'll bet that figure is closer to 90%.


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## analog.universe (Jul 20, 2011)

It does use the words "socially acceptable", and not "morally acceptable".   As in, "what will society think?" not "do you think it's wrong?"

I'm sure plenty of people do it and think its fine, but these sorts of studies that claim they can determine averages can be so easily skewed by the language of the survey and the presentation of the data.


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## dnavarrojr (Jul 20, 2011)

I hear excuses all the time... Especially about the economy and that most software/etc is overpriced.  I felt the same way all the way through college, but when I graduated and my paycheck DEPENDED on the sale of the software I designed, I changed my attitude pretty quickly.

That said, I'm not above doing everything I can to get software cheap, including spending $100 to take a class at the local college to save $600 for the student version of something (as long as the license allows me to use the student version for commercial work).


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## Robin Usagani (Jul 20, 2011)

The problem is people make significantly less in other countries.  Lets say the minimum wage is $8/hour.  People make $2/DAY in some asian countries.  So that is like 25 cents/hour.  The software IS cheaper there but not that much cheaper.


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## dnavarrojr (Jul 20, 2011)

Hong Kong is not one of those countries where people make $2 a day.  In fact, many in Hong Kong make a better living than I do... and they still pirate everything.  It's the culture there.


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## gina_d (Jul 20, 2011)

With regards to online piracy, I found this three strikes/ we're kicking you off the internet approach to be interesting and the tracking element to be troubling. The following link is the short article in it's entirety. I just pulled out a few paragraphs below to give some idea what it's about. 

French Anti-Piracy Agency Tracks Millions Of File-SharersInvestigates 10 | paidContent

The entertainment industry has been pushing some version of a  three-strikes system in countries around the world, where internet  providers would cut off customers who repeatedly engage in online  piracy. But theyve only gotten that wish in a few countries. The early  adopter in this case was France, where the government agency in charge  of the anti-piracy efforts, known as Hadopi, has just released some  data about what its done in its first nine months of operations.

The agencys results were reported in _Le Monde_ (original French link) and an English synopsis of the findings was reported by Reporters Without Borders, which has been critical of French anti-piracy efforts. Another analysis was published today by the TorrentFreak blog.

Trident forwarded 1 million of the suspect IP addresses to French ISPs,  which coughed up 900,000 identities of real French internet users. 

The next step: 470,000 people getting first warning emails. But only  20,000 people received second warnings, which may suggest that a simple  e-mail warning telling users to essentially knock it off is actually a  pretty effective tool for combating piracy. Of the 20,000 who got  second warnings, only 10 had to receive a third warning. Those ten cases  are being handled by a judge. Those users risk a fine of 1,500 euros  and could have their internet connection severedbut no such punishments  have been meted out yet.


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## usayit (Jul 20, 2011)

Working in development this impacts me directly.....  

Let just say I have to bite my tongue a lot around people who fall under that 70%



As for poor countries, its the chicken or the egg situation.   Other products are sold at relatively reasonable prices in those countries because the MARKET sets the price.  The only difference between software and other "soft" products (movies, music etc) is that it costs much less to "copy", "duplicate", and distribute.   Many companies do not have retail chains in those countries because the country itself doesn't have the means to enforce copyright laws.


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## usayit (Jul 20, 2011)

dnavarrojr said:


> Hong Kong is not one of those countries where people make $2 a day.  In fact, many in Hong Kong make a better living than I do... and they still pirate everything.  It's the culture there.



Exactly.. India is another region where it is easy to pirate everything and yet there are a significant population of people that earn a better standard living.  IRONICALLY a big chunk of that population is from the booming software industry.



At least my opinion from my observations here in the US, its also part of the culture.  Lie steal and cheat.   A big chunk of the most influential and successful people in the world do it each and every day.... to get ahead.. all in the name of self interest and so called "business".   It permiates into the younger generation(s).  Including mine.


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## Robin Usagani (Jul 20, 2011)

I just feel like software companies need to do a better job to piracy proof their software.


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## usayit (Jul 20, 2011)

Schwettylens said:


> I just feel like software companies need to do a better job to piracy proof their software.



They have and can.. very easily.  The issue is that you end up pissing off people.. including legitamate users and get threads like these:

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/off-topic-chat/250859-software-sucks.html


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## dnavarrojr (Jul 20, 2011)

Schwettylens said:


> I just feel like software companies need to do a better job to piracy proof their software.



Yeah, been there... Not dealing with copy protected software any longer.  Even now, I think I have 2 or 3 programs beyond Windows itself that have any kind of copy protection, and I'm replacing those as soon as anything similar comes along.

Software companies need to re-think pricing and look at how well Adobe is doing with their new "rental" system.  I know a number of people who have switched to that so that they get the latest Adobe Software as it's released for a flat monthly fee that is easier to budget for than new updates that are typically not announced until a few months before they are released.  In fact, if I move into a studio at the end of the summer, it will actually be more cost effective for me to switch my licensing of Adobe products over to their new rental system to cover my home, my laptop and my work computer.


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## ghache (Jul 20, 2011)

newsgroups + news hosting with ssl sessions + grabit = awesome. just saying.


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## johnh2005 (Jul 20, 2011)

Schwettylens said:


> I just feel like software companies need to do a better job to piracy proof their software.



Holy mother of god NO.  I am sorry.  I just posted a topic called something like "I hate software."  Please for the love of all don't EVER wish this.  There is NOTHING they will EVER do to prevent piracy.  Ubisoft spent MILLIONS of dollars on their anti-pirate software and it was broken within day of release by the pirates.  The funny thing?  MANY MANY MANY legitimate users who bought the software could NOT use it after the first episode unless they did one of two things, downloaded a patch a WEEK later from Ubisoft, or waited one day for the pirates to properly patch the software.  It is VERY bad when a company worth BILLIONS cannot patch their own product within a week but the pirates did it in a day...


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## johnh2005 (Jul 20, 2011)

Haha thank you usayit.  I see you saw my thread.  REDONKEROUS (Sound it out)


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## IgsEMT (Jul 21, 2011)

why go online, when you can go into the store  Blogger discovers trio of perfectly rendered knockoff Apple stores in China | Technology News Blog - Yahoo! News


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## molested_cow (Jul 21, 2011)

This actually led me to think about two questions.

1. Say if a official voting is held world wide and it is clear that more than 70% of the world's population don't think piracy of software is wrong, will it still be acceptable for anti-piracy laws to exist?

2. If piracy is widely accepted, should software companies adjust their approach to how they make their money? In stead of selling products, should they be selling service instead? Or turn their softwares into real estate for information like advertisements and such?

I don't think piracy is the end of the world for software developers. It just changes the way things are done.


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## ghache (Jul 21, 2011)

molested_cow said:


> This actually led me to think about two questions.
> 
> 1. Say if a official voting is held world wide and it is clear that more than 70% of the world's population don't think piracy of software is wrong, will it still be acceptable for anti-piracy laws to exist?
> 
> ...



Its the way it is. We are in 2011. they need to modify thier approach. 
same thing for movies and music.
I went to see transformer 3D this weekend and while sitting there watching the movie, I quickly realized that they are selling an experience rather than a simple movie dvd and i will spend the money even if i am downloading all the movies i want at home 

 going to the theater is affordable.. Buying cs5 at 1300$ is not.


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## usayit (Jul 21, 2011)

molested_cow said:


> This actually led me to think about two questions.
> 
> 1. Say if a official voting is held world wide and it is clear that more than 70% of the world's population don't think piracy of software is wrong, will it still be acceptable for anti-piracy laws to exist?
> 
> ...



Another question that comes to mind.....  

Why do software companies keep outsourcing to places like China if it is a well known fact that intellectual property are not even respected?
(Assuming that the blue prints and code get leaked out to Chinese public as soon as a contract is up)


Regarding to #1.  wrong / right != legal / illegal   AND neither are related to what people think is acceptable/not-acceptable.

Regarding to #2.  What makes you think the service itself is not vulnerable to piracy?



In this case, an entire store is "pirated".   Store can and should be considered a "service".

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/technol...rendered-knockoff-apple-stores-195925037.html


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## usayit (Jul 21, 2011)

PS> Anyone else think its ironic that photographers, 

who get all pissy when someone copies their pictures,
who go through great lengths making eye-soaring watermarks,
who get all mad when someone steps on their rights,
who are the ones to insist on posting links rather photos to the TPF,

are also the same who are willing to do the same to software developers (Adobe)?


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## molested_cow (Jul 21, 2011)

usayit said:


> Regarding to #2.  What makes you think the service itself is not vulnerable to piracy?



And that is perhaps why large software companies want to go cloud. With cloud, it will be pointless to pirate software because the bulk of the product needs to be supplied by the original company as a form of service. If you "pirate" the service, then it's simply not the same.

I personally don't like the idea of cloud. There was one day where our office server is down and no one can do any work, except me who keep my data on my own workstation.



usayit said:


> Regarding to #1.  wrong / right != legal / illegal   AND neither are related to what people think is acceptable/not-acceptable.



So who decides it? The elite few? If so, then you, as voters, are allowing that to happen.

If states can pass homosexual marriage laws, piracy is a piece of cake.


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## usayit (Jul 21, 2011)

molested_cow said:


> With cloud, it will be pointless to pirate software because the bulk of the product needs to be supplied by the original company as a form of service.



This is just the beginning...

Music Ally | Blog Archive » Anonymous denies responsibility for Sony&#8217;s cloud services hack

or use it as a tool to launch a hack

http://www.popsci.com/technology/ar...loud-services-launch-their-attack-report-says



molested_cow said:


> personally don't like the idea of cloud.



Don't like it either... there are obvious implications regarding privacy, security, and liability.   

Besides..... "cloud"....  the whole thing....  sounds very similar to the old days of thin versus thick clients.... paired with the whole "utility" scheme of software done a while back.  HP had a similar scheme for hardware on their PA-RISC and Itanium servers a while back.... just like DRM, it was a royal pain to maintain (I hated it).   Its same old boring stuff reiterated with a new label.


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## usayit (Jul 21, 2011)

molested_cow said:


> So who decides it? The elite few? If so, then you, as voters, are allowing that to happen.



That was the jist of my response.....  even if, who or what will decide.   A majority vote is not always right either.  I'm sure big business will block any notion of making intellectual property public property free for everyone.


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## rainking (Jul 21, 2011)

Microsoft profit up, Windows lag: Thomson Reuters Business News - MSN Money


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## v1c70r (Jul 21, 2011)

Yo ho, yo ho, a pirate's life for me!


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## 2WheelPhoto (Jul 21, 2011)

Many folks have told me I'm stupid for paying for adobe photo software since clean complete copies are available via uTorrent for free at every free uTorrent and newsgroup site in the universe.


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## skieur (Jul 21, 2011)

I have some colleagues who have made a lot of money by suing people for stealing their photos off the net.  One of them won a 6 figure settlement from a British magazine a few years ago.

skieur


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## Lurch98 (Jul 22, 2011)

Software companies need to pay salaries for the creative folks writing the software, in the same manner photographers need to make money off their photos and processing time. It's a business. If you don't like the price for CS5, buy Elements. If want free software, download GIMP or write your own. If you don't know how to write your own, pay to compensate those who do. It's not easy to write/test/support code, which is why software is expensive. Especially for complicated code that doesn't have many customers.

That being said, companies need to return savings to the customers if they do go employ strategies like the cloud and get beefits of reduced piracy. Theortically the market and competiton will force that savings out. In the mean time, pirate a copy of CS5 if you want, but don't be mad when someone "borrows" your photos in the same manner, or you install a malware copy of CS5 from a use group with shady characters that take your credit card info. Them's the risks.


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## Kerbouchard (Jul 22, 2011)

It's not ironic.  It's hypocrisy.  For some reason people think just because something can be transfered over the internet it should be free.  Bull.  There should be no mistakes about it, the pieces of .... that are pirating software are making it more expensive for the rest of us.  On other forums, this thread would have already resulted in several members being banned, and good riddance.

Adobe offers trial versions for all their software so that customers get an idea of what they want...heck, they can use different Adobe products for about 3 months free of charge.  They also offer incredible student and military discounts.  If you don't like their prices, there are free alternatives.  Just because you can't afford something doesn't mean it's right to steal it.

As far as the poll goes, I think people who think it is okay to take somebody's intellectual property or work without compensation because they think they are entitled to it are scum.



usayit said:


> PS> Anyone else think its ironic that photographers,
> 
> who get all pissy when someone copies their pictures,
> who go through great lengths making eye-soaring watermarks,
> ...


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## KmH (Jul 22, 2011)

2WheelPhoto said:


> Many folks have told me I'm stupid for paying for adobe photo software since clean complete copies are available via uTorrent for free at every free uTorrent and newsgroup site in the universe.


Clean complete copies of cars are available in parking lots all over the world too. Do those same people tell you you're stupid for not just taking whatever car you want?

Get real.


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## selling1 (Jul 29, 2011)

Yes whatever but one thing Pirated things are very cheap and easy to get and so is everybody looking for these days...!!


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## KmH (Jul 29, 2011)

No. "Everyone" isn't.


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## johnh2005 (Jul 29, 2011)

I think what he meant was that everyone was looking for cheap and easy to get.  Not necessarily everyone is looking for "pirated" software.


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## c.cloudwalker (Jul 29, 2011)

Piracy has always existed and will always exist. Way back in the days, a long, long time before I was born, some of it was even state sponsored 

People who want it all for free have also existed for a long time. Just watch the movie of the 60s festival of the Isle of Wight, half of it is dedicated to the bunch of people who don't think they should have to pay to get in, lol.

Today's insane upsurge in piracy is however directly related to the insane greed of the corporations and the individuals who have a product to sell. And I most certainly believe that the more idiotic they get about copyright infringement, the more piracy will occur.

Funny how the artists and music companies responsible for the more than 10,000 records in my collection didn't seem to have a problem with my copying them in the age of the cassette but suddenly do in the age of the CD. I've heard it said that it is a question of quality. BS! The quality of good cassettes was higher than that of today's MP3s...

Funny how a band like the Grateful Dead managed to survive/make a living while letting fans tape their concerts...

Funny how we now have to crack some stupid code to copy a DVD while a VCR tape could just be copied...

Funny how today's corporations and artists don't feel they can make a half-way decent living without going after some poor schmuck making a few copies... No, actually, that's not funny. But excuse me if I don't feel sorry for them one bit. I somehow manage to live comfortably enough while making a 10th to a 100th of what some of those people make.

Who ever said a musician or an actor should be able to retire after making a couple of films/records? Why shouldn't I be able to retire after shooting a couple of photos then? Frankly, not my problem if some idiot doesn't know how to live on less than a million dollars a year. Or more.

In the age of Jazz and in the early days of Rock, musicians worked hard their entire lives to make a living. Just as I do. And mostly because they got screwed by some corporation. But, let's be honest, the corporations invented the multiple layers of do-nothing in-betweens, each of which levies a chunk of money that raises the cost and price of the final product. So that I would find it hard to fight piracy in the name of those individuals/corporations.

Does that mean that I will let anyone use my photos any which way they want? NO. Absolutely not. Then again, I don't spend a whole lot of time fighting piracy or even thinking about it. One simple reason. By the time my work shows up on the web, it's been paid for and it's not my problem anymore.

One thing this type of thread makes me realize is the fact that I was a pirate from early on. Yes, I used to cut out photos from magazines and put them up on the walls of my bedroom... LOL!


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## usayit (Jul 29, 2011)

double post


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## usayit (Jul 29, 2011)

c.cloudwalker said:


> One thing this type of thread makes me realize is the fact that I was a pirate from early on. Yes, I used to cut out photos from magazines and put them up on the walls of my bedroom... LOL!



But someone paid for the magazine to begin with.....

Its one thing to cut out to put into a book or wall...  Its another to make photocopies of said magazine and distribute.


My take on your response is similar to a car thief placing blame on the owner because they didn't take the time/effort to lock the car.

The difficulty of the theft is irrevalant... nor how popular or common.  No excuses.    The upsurge in piracy is simply because more and more of our lives are touched by software and non-tangible products.  



PS> I'm old enough to remember that music artists DID take issue when the wide availability of recordable cassette tapes made it easy for anyone to copy vinyl records.  Piracy has been around for a long time... its the only part of your response that I am in agreement.


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## usayit (Jul 29, 2011)

c.cloudwalker said:


> Funny how the artists and music companies responsible for the more than 10,000 records in my collection didn't seem to have a problem with my copying them in the age of the cassette but suddenly do in the age of the CD.




In God We Trust, Inc. - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

1981 -

" On the original vinyl version, Side A was tracks 1-5 and Side B was tracks 6-8. On the original cassette version, Side A contained all 8 songs, with Side B being left intentionally blank. Printed on Side B was the explanation, "Home taping is killing record industry profits! We left this side blank so you can help."[1]"

LOL.. oh they did have a problem..


Nothing in life is free... (even if someone else ends up paying for it).



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_Taping_Is_Killing_Music


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## nickzou (Jul 29, 2011)

I'm of the opinion that piracy is not okay. But is a sad fact of life sometimes. I remember when I interned at Adobe and when I was doing some menial graphics work for them I let slip that I had the pirated version of Adobe Master Collection, I turned red, I started to panic. And my supervisors just laughed at me and told me "we know, most students pirate our software, it's not a big deal, we're not worried about that." And then proceeded to lecture about the difference between piracy for personal use and corporate piracy. I mean, personal piracy is still illegal but I was surprised that they just told this other guy to "just go download" Illustrator because he only had Photoshop and InDesign legit.


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## c.cloudwalker (Jul 29, 2011)

usayit said:


> c.cloudwalker said:
> 
> 
> > One thing this type of thread makes me realize is the fact that I was a pirate from early on. Yes, I used to cut out photos from magazines and put them up on the walls of my bedroom... LOL!
> ...



Funny! I remember the artists and record companies talking about the fact that those cassettes ended up helping them sell more records!!!  Which part of the recording industry did you work in?


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## usayit (Jul 29, 2011)

Just more excuses... nothing provided is different from the countless excuses decades past.   None of it holds water.

Cost, ease, or how much the potential "profit" is irrelevant.   What you "remember" is also irrelevant...    There were many organizations (still are) to push against piracy, laws backing them, and protection of intellectual property.  That's all the relevance I need.  



You can't read either... (never said I worked in the recording industry).   Its called reading the news.




PS>  Did you just say that stealing an unlocked car is not auto theft?   maybe I misunderstood.


btw... there was a reason why I linked "Home taping is killing music".   I was hoping you would remember them since they were a primarily a group active in Europe (noticing  your location).   I guess not...  (either that or willed blindness)


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