# Can we talk Vendor Insurance?



## jwbryson1 (Oct 17, 2012)

As I have mentioned before, my HOA has asked me to do some Santa photos at this year's HOA event.  I agreed to do them for a small sitting fee, plus I can then sell CD's on the side in my discretion.

The HOA is now asking me to provide proof of general liability insurance that names the HOA as the "certificate holder" of this event.  I am not an insurance attorney, but I believe what they need is proof of coverage for the HOA's potential liability in the event somebody is injured during the event.  I think they also want proof of my personal liability coverage.

If I do the event for free, then I don't need to provide insurance coverage.  Not sure why the distinction.

I am not really familiar with this.  Has anybody dealt with this before who can shed some additional light on the issue?

Thanks.


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## jamesbjenkins (Oct 17, 2012)

They're just trying to pass their liability on to you. It's standard practice. When I do large event shoots like festivals and stuff, they always want to make sure I've got my ducks in a row, so if something happens (injury, damage to property, etc.) they can refer people right to me and keep their hands clean.

Whoever you were talking to that mentioned they need to be the "certificate holder" probably didn't have any idea what they're talking about and was just regurgitating what their boss told them. I'd imagine as long as you can provide them with your general liability proof, they'll be fine.

Of course, I'm not a lawyer either, and this doesn't constitute legal advice.


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## jwbryson1 (Oct 17, 2012)

jamesbjenkins said:


> They're just trying to pass their liability on to you. It's standard practice. When I do large event shoots like festivals and stuff, they always want to make sure I've got my ducks in a row, so if something happens (injury, damage to property, etc.) they can refer people right to me and keep their hands clean.
> 
> Whoever you were talking to that mentioned they need to be the "certificate holder" probably didn't have any idea what they're talking about and was just regurgitating what their boss told them. I'd imagine as long as you can provide them with your general liability proof, they'll be fine.
> 
> Of course, I'm not a lawyer either, and this doesn't constitute legal advice.




Understood.  The HOA manager actually emailed me a PDF of another vender that names the HOA as the "certificate holder" for the event, so that is where she gets that language from.  I dunno.

Maybe I'll just do it for free to get some exposure (get it?? get it??) and then find out about the insurance requirements at a later time.


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## sapper6fd (Oct 17, 2012)

Almost everything I do as a ccontractor requires me to carry liability insurance.  Its just as James mentioned above, incase something happens like your camera decides to catch fire and burn the place down or it fallls off a tripod and hits someone in the head.  This insurance can get expencive (while I'm not carrying the insurance as a photographer, most of my clients require I cary a minimum of $5,000,000 liability insurance).  You can get it foor cheap for a one off from most companies that provide it.   $1,000,000 foor a week and the cost will be around  $50.00


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## tirediron (Oct 17, 2012)

jwbryson1 said:


> ...Maybe I'll just do it for free to get some exposure (get it?? get it??) and then find out about the insurance requirements at a later time.


I do, but you won't.  Every year I do the city's biggest (and best if I do say so myself) "Pets with Santa" shoot to raise funds for a local animal charity.  Despite having signs up promoting my business, putting a business card in with every CD, etc, etc, I can tell you exactly what it's gotten me.  Nada.  Zero, Zip, Zilch, Sweet-fanny-adams!  That said, I do it because I like the charity and want to support it, but I wouldn't mind a little fall-out.  

I'm not sure why they would distinguish between paid and upaid, but all they're asking for (however they describe it) is to have their venue covered by your insurance while you're working.  This should be nothing more than a call to your insurance broker.


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## Tee (Oct 17, 2012)

If I remember correctly, didn't you do the exact same thing last year?  Or am I still slightly hungover?


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## MLeeK (Oct 17, 2012)

Every time a venue asks for them to be named on my liability I call up my insurance agent, he names them for the date in question, prints me off a page that shows my liability amounts and the venue listed. I believe he calls it a declarations page. 
HOWEVER... seeing how  you aren't in business with all of your insurance and all of that jazz, you might just have a bit of a problem there. Call your insurance agent and start asking him about liability. I am guessing this is an expense you haven't considered in the fee you are charging the HOA and this might just be the straw that breaks this deal. I think my insurance runs me somewhere in the range of $500, but that could be my equipment. I'd have to look at all of that crap to tell you.


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## jwbryson1 (Oct 17, 2012)

I've decided to do it for free to avoid this issue.

Thanks for the information.


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## jwbryson1 (Oct 17, 2012)

Tee said:


> If I remember correctly, didn't you do the exact same thing last year?  Or am I still slightly hungover?



Good memory.  Asked to do it, but ultimately it went to somebody else.  This year, it's mine.


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## Tee (Oct 17, 2012)

jwbryson1 said:


> Tee said:
> 
> 
> > If I remember correctly, didn't you do the exact same thing last year?  Or am I still slightly hungover?
> ...



Ahhhh.  That's right.:thumbup:


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## KmH (Oct 17, 2012)

Doing it for free doesn't necessarily get you off the insurance hook.


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## jwbryson1 (Oct 17, 2012)

KmH said:


> Doing it for free doesn't necessarily get you off the insurance hook.



For my HOA it does.


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## tirediron (Oct 17, 2012)

So, because you're not being paid, they assume all liability?  Sounds odd to me.


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## MLeeK (Oct 17, 2012)

jwbryson1 said:


> KmH said:
> 
> 
> > Doing it for free doesn't necessarily get you off the insurance hook.
> ...


It gets you off having to provide insurance proof, however if something happens and it's because of one of your pieces of equipment or something you did-you're still on the hook for the liability on that.


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## orljustin (Oct 17, 2012)

KmH said:


> Doing it for free doesn't necessarily get you off the insurance hook.



Uh, yeah.  Believing it does sounds like a newb move.


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## Tony S (Oct 17, 2012)

What you are looking for is what's called a "Certificate of Insurance or COI" for the location.  If you have insurance all it takes is a call or email to your provider and you will have it. 
   While you may not be required by the HOA to have one it is very prudent to make sure you are covered.  Light stands fall, cords get tripped over, and just you telling someone to move a certain way may cause them to fall...... all this can lead to a suit, doesn't mean they will win, but without insurance it's coming out of your pocket to defend yourself and your actions. And what about your equipment if little Fifi gets excited and trips you when the leash wraps around your ankles causing your camera to crash to the floor..... is that covered?

  Use the earch tool at the top of this page and enter "insurance" into the search field, there are tons of posts on the forum relating to it and where to get it.

I use TCPickard & Co.      www.groupinsure.com   they will give you a quick online quote for rates.


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## jwbryson1 (Oct 18, 2012)

As an attorney, I understand the liability involved with this.  For HOA purposes, they will let me do the event without naming the HOA as a certificate holder, but only if they pay me nothing.  They are telling me those are the rules in the State of Maryland.  I am going by what they tell me and the rules they are following and refuse to change.

I personally have a large umbrella policy that covers my personal liability, so I feel confident I am okay.


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## Tony S (Oct 18, 2012)

> They are telling me those are the rules in the State of Maryland.  I am going by what they tell me and the rules they are following and refuse to change.



  As an attorney you ought to know not to trust what someone else tells you.    Heck, we should all be asking you for advice since you like to work for free.


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## jwbryson1 (Oct 18, 2012)

Tony S said:


> > They are telling me those are the rules in the State of Maryland.  I am going by what they tell me and the rules they are following and refuse to change.
> 
> 
> 
> As an attorney you ought to know not to trust what someone else tells you.    Heck, we should all be asking you for advice since you like to work for free.




What I mean is that if I can avoid having to buy insurance if I shoot the event for free, I don't care what the laws are in the State of Maryland.  I don't work for free as an attorney, unless I'm doing pro bono work, but when it comes to shooting photographs and I can get some exposure mrgreen for a few hours work, then why not?


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## MLeeK (Oct 18, 2012)

jwbryson1 said:


> Tony S said:
> 
> 
> > > They are telling me those are the rules in the State of Maryland.  I am going by what they tell me and the rules they are following and refuse to change.
> ...




Can we revisit the Tommie rant? I REALLY could use some legal advice, pro bono! LOL!


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## Tony S (Oct 18, 2012)

yeah......... give the girl a hand.


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