# Einstein Reflectors.......



## OnTheFly7 (Apr 25, 2016)

For those familiar with the e640 and shooting low light sporting events, what size reflectors are you running?

I am going to be shooting quite a few rodeo events this season that begin around 7:00pm (right before dusk) and then continue into full darkness.  One or two events will also be indoors.  Due to this, I am picking up 4 e640's soon, then possibly adding 2-4 more come the indoor events in the winter.

As it stands, I am thinking of ordering the 8.5" reflectors, but I was also looking at the 11" Long Throw reflectors.  I just wonder if the 11" is needed.

Any thoughts on this?


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## Rick50 (Apr 25, 2016)

I can't really answer your questions but I have one myself.
But I would opt for long throw (assuming your distance is great).
Are you allowed to shoot flash during a rodeo? I would think it would spook the horses.


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## OnTheFly7 (Apr 25, 2016)

Yes, we are allowed to.

I see many people question this and I have never seen an instance where it affects the animal.  In fact, all of your indoor professional events are photographed with strobes (as far as I know).


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## Rick50 (Apr 25, 2016)

Thanks, it's good to know. 
By the way I have 2 B800's but have only used indoors so far. I am going to get a battery pack and the
Cyber commander to try outdoor shots. If I like I'll get a 640.
I do have the 8.5" reflector but my info is of no use to you for your app.


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## tirediron (Apr 25, 2016)

How are you rigging them?  What distances are involved?


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## OnTheFly7 (Apr 25, 2016)

tirediron said:


> How are you rigging them?  What distances are involved?



The e640's will be set to Vagabond Lithium Extreme portable power systems.  The lights themselves will be mounted on either 13 foot light stands or attached to poles at the event locations.  The lights will be (in my best guess as I have not been to one of these locations yet) anywhere from 50 feet to 150 feet from the action.  Just depends on which lights the action is in front of.  The rough stock will be in close most of the time, the timed events will reach out a bit further.


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## tirediron (Apr 25, 2016)

I don't see this working very well; even at 50', never mind 150' this is going to be a pinpoint light source with major exposure issues.  There's a reason why most court & arena events are lit from overhead.


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## table1349 (Apr 25, 2016)

OnTheFly7 said:


> Yes, we are allowed to.
> 
> I see many people question this and I have never seen an instance where it affects the animal.  In fact, all of your indoor professional events are photographed with strobes (as far as I know).



Maybe in rodeo but not all indoor sporting events, professional or otherwise.   That's why i shoot 1Dx's and virtually all L glass.  When I do use strobe at an event it is either with the permission of the event location and the owner of the installed strobes using their installed, or I hang mine above the event in the catwalk area.  About a 1/2 days work for 4 strobes.  I use the 10 1/4" High Performance Reflectors on my 1000RS's.  It is not an easy nor a cheap proposition.  All super clamps with dual safety cable backups for *ALL* equipment.

The other consideration is Insurance.  You need a lot of it.  Minimum $1,000,000.00 worth.  You put them on stands, hang them what ever YOU are responsible.  Doesn't matter if some kid comes and plays with it when they shouldn't and if falls over or a head comes loose.  Doesn't matter if someone trips over the leg, even if they shouldn't be there YOU are responsible and YOU will be the one in court.  People can develop quite the list of injuries with something like this.

Some considerations you may or may not have considered. 

Do you have protective plastic shields for each strobe?  Tube falls out or blows you do not want glass falling out onto the spectators, participants etc.

Super clamps or Mafer clamps with 3" studs.

Backup safety chains, cables, rolls of gaffer tape, not duct tape but gaffer tape. 

If you are thinking of light stands ( I wouldn't) then you want plenty of sand bags for base stability *and* a system to secure them so they CANNOT no matter what, tip over.  Cables, gaffers tape what ever, but they cannot tip period. 

This is not something to do on a whim or on the cheap.  I probably have around $8,000 +/- invested in lights and all the mounting and safety gear.  That doesn't count the insurance.


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## OnTheFly7 (Apr 25, 2016)

gryp.......

Great insight and I have thought of most of what you touch on.  

As for the insurance, I have $2 million.  Not cheap for sure.  But, as this is the main niche that I am focusing on, it is an investment, well spent (I hope).  Not to mention, having the ability to utilize the lights for other situations as well.  

With regards to the light stands, while in some situations they may be used, if possible, they will not be free standing.  I also plan on utilizing ratchet straps to keep them secure.


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## Derrel (Apr 25, 2016)

Buff's own page specifies the use of these deeeeep, polished, bright-silver colored reflectors for use from 50 to 150 feet. Beam spread is 28 degrees. Paul C. Buff - 11-inch Long-Throw Reflector

Sounds about right to me, actually, good beam spread vs distance capability. Looking at Buff's specs for that reflector and the Einstein, at full power they list 394 at the Guide Number, in Feet, at ISO 100, as f/32 + 6/10 stop. However--that is computed in a 14x 14 foot box, or as they state, "Readings were taken in a 14-foot x 14-foot room (with an average ceiling height of 14-feet) with both the walls and floor painted grey. Please note that readings may vary when taken in other environments and with other meters, as different brands of flashmeters can vary in their interpretation of correct values."

At a rodeo arena, the "floor" is dark dirt, there are no real walls or ceiling that will appreciably aid in light throw...pretty much the antithesis of a 14x14x14 foot enclosed room. Regardless of the efficacy of the GN of 394, Feet, ISO 100, you'd elevate that GN by 1.41x by going ISO 200, and elevate it by 2.0 by going to ISO 400, and ISO 800 would boost the original GN by 2.83x, and 1600 would be by a factor of 4.0.

The 200 ISO GN would be 555. The ISO 400 GN would be 788, and the ISO 800 GN would be 1,115, while the ISO 1600 GN would be 1,576.

At ISO 800, with a GN of 1,115, the computed f/stop would be f/27.875, while at 60 feet you'd get f/18.56, and at 100 feet from the flash, the f/stop would be f/11.15, and at 125 feet the ISO 800 GN of 1,115 would deliver a flash power that would be decently exposed at f/8.92. At 150 feet, the calculated f/stop is f/7.4333333.

I would not be at all surprised if in a dirt-floored outdoor rodeo arena that the Guide Number would be lower by easily, one full EV value from that of the indoor-computed GN, and a loss of 1.5 EV would not surprise me either.


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