# 2x Teleconverter For Canon



## decado (Oct 18, 2009)

What's a good brand for a 2x teleconverter? I was reading reviews of canon's EF 2x teleconverter and they say that it degrades the image. Are there 2x teleconverter's that don't degrade the image or would I be better off sticking to a 1.4x?


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## ErectedGryphon (Oct 18, 2009)

EOS (SLR) Camera Systems - Super Telephoto - Lens Extender - Extender EF 2x II - Canon USA Consumer Products

Made by Canon for Canon, Read the specs, then decide.   

Please link the reviews you read, I'm thinking about buying this too, and would like to see them.

I'll be keeping an eye on ths topic for other's input too!


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## Derrel (Oct 18, 2009)

My experience is that the manufacturer's own 1.4x converters offer better performance, with less light loss than the manufacturer's own 2x converters.
With a 1.4x converter, you lose only one f/stop of light transmission, and get a 1.4x longer effective focal length,without too much degradation of the optics of most primes and good zoom lenses. 

With a 2x converter, the light loss is a full two f/stops' worth, and there is usually a pretty noticeable quality loss with a 2x converter.

The 1.4x is a nice compromise....1.4x longer focal length, and then the ability to crop a small amount to et to 2.0x magnification, but no penalty in reduced shutter speed in the field, and no loss of autofocusing in the field due to a 2x converter dropping the maximum aperture down so far that the AF system will not AF.


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## Josh66 (Oct 18, 2009)

Any teleconverter is going to degrade the image to some extent.
The only way around that is to just buy a longer (more expensive) lens so that you don't need the teleconverter.

It's a compromise between buying an expensive 400mm prime, or just throwing a teleconverter on a 70-200 or something like that.


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## icassell (Oct 18, 2009)

I own the Sigma EX series TC's (1.4X and 2X) to go with my EX lenses (50-150mm f/2.8, 100-300mm f/4).  The 1.4 is great.  The 2 really softens things up.  I don't know how well Sigma TC's would work with Canon brand lenses.  I use my 1.4 with my Canon 100mm f/2.8 Macro and it works well (which, I believe, the Canon TC does not), but haven't tried it with any other Canon glass.


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## RyanLilly (Oct 18, 2009)

You also need to use a really good lens with a teleconverter to get the best results. I have seen shots taken with both canon teleconverters printed in sizes  of 16x20 and viewing at less than arms length, I could not find one thing to complain about. This was however using a 1DmkII and L glass.


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## ErectedGryphon (Oct 18, 2009)

RyanLilly said:


> You also need to use a really good lens with a teleconverter to get the best results. I have seen shots taken with both canon teleconverters printed in sizes of 16x20 and viewing at less than arms length, I could not find one thing to complain about. This was however using a 1DmkII and L glass.


 
How would you compare that to 5D (12.8) with a '70-200 f2.8L'? According to Canon, it would be a '140-400 f5.6' equivalent. I like those stats, but if I'm going to lose image sharpness, it's not much of a savings over buying the '100-400 f4L' is it?

Not trying to hi-jack the thread, I think it's relevant to the original question.


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## chris miss (Oct 18, 2009)

icassell said:


> I own the Sigma EX series TC's (1.4X and 2X) to go with my EX lenses (50-150mm f/2.8, 100-300mm f/4).  The 1.4 is great.  The 2 really softens things up.  I don't know how well Sigma TC's would work with Canon brand lenses.  I use my 1.4 with my Canon 100mm f/2.8 Macro and it works well (which, I believe, the Canon TC does not), but haven't tried it with any other Canon glass.



I have the Canon 100mm lens and would be interested in seeing one of your shots using the Sigma 1.4 TC. Would you have one you could post?


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## Overread (Oct 19, 2009)

Juza has a good article on comparing canon and sigma TCs together:
Juza Nature Photography

His results I would agree with totally (Barring the fullframe side since I don't have a fullframe camera) since I have both sets of TCs. The difference in the 2*TCs is something that you notice when you use them side by side in a comparison, but in the field it really is not enough of a difference to worry about

My own experiences are that 1.4TCs are very good for your money  and will give you a nice focal length increase with minimal image quality loss (on top end lenses with a good shot its unnoticable at times) and only 1 stop of lightloss, which should not cripple you in most situations. I nearly always have a 1.4TC on both my 70-200mm and my two macro prime lenses as well.

The 2*TCs are a different ballgame, lightloss is more noticable and image quality takes a very noticable drop. On a zoom lens its mostly not that good an option, even on my 70-200mm f2.8 IS the image quality suffers a lot (though if you use a higher end camera body you can reduce this image quality loss - 5DM2 and 1DM2/3 are the range of body you need though). Prime lenses tend to work far better, but again your looking at hte top range of prime lenses. This is not only for image quality, but also for AF since on canon cameras the bodies will not AF if the max aperture of the lens goes below f5.6 - and since you lose 2 stops of light with a 2*TC you need f2.8 lenses otherwise you will lose AF.
Note that some sigma lenses have a max aperture smaller than 5.6, but they do not report this to the camera and thus keep AF. Further this limitation is not canon being nasty, but rather the fact that AF is totally unreliable after this point. 
It can be got round by using a pro range (1D) camera where the limit is f8.

Persoanlly I would say a 1.4TC is a worth addtion to your setup - though note that canon 1.4TCs will only work with their L range of lenses and even then they will not attach to them all (typically only the >100mm ones will attach). This is a physical limitation as the front of the TC sticks out.
Sigma TCs have a far lesser stickout and so will attach to more lenses in the canon range and I belive Kenko TCs have an even smaller rise - and their Kenko Pro range are supposed to be quite good optically speaking ( I haven't used on to know myself).


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## ErectedGryphon (Oct 19, 2009)

Very good article, thanks forthe link Overread!


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## icassell (Oct 19, 2009)

chris miss said:


> icassell said:
> 
> 
> > I own the Sigma EX series TC's (1.4X and 2X) to go with my EX lenses (50-150mm f/2.8, 100-300mm f/4).  The 1.4 is great.  The 2 really softens things up.  I don't know how well Sigma TC's would work with Canon brand lenses.  I use my 1.4 with my Canon 100mm f/2.8 Macro and it works well (which, I believe, the Canon TC does not), but haven't tried it with any other Canon glass.
> ...



Hmmmm .... I'll have to go back and look ... if I can't find one, I'll take a couple.  Give me a bit of time (working long hours this week).


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## Overread (Oct 19, 2009)

chris miss said:


> icassell said:
> 
> 
> > I own the Sigma EX series TC's (1.4X and 2X) to go with my EX lenses (50-150mm f/2.8, 100-300mm f/4).  The 1.4 is great.  The 2 really softens things up.  I don't know how well Sigma TC's would work with Canon brand lenses.  I use my 1.4 with my Canon 100mm f/2.8 Macro and it works well (which, I believe, the Canon TC does not), but haven't tried it with any other Canon glass.
> ...



Criss - I don't have the canon 100mm, but I have a sigma 70mm and 150mm macro and I use a sigma 1.4TC on both all the time (its actually rare for me to use either lens without). Its great as it  gives a slightly longer working distance, a greater overall magnifaction at its normal working distance (1.4:1) which is usefull when taking shots of fly sized subject and getting closer to larger insects. Image quality with both lenses remains very high and only 1 stop less light has little impact on lighting or focusing 
For some examples:
IMG_0224 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Butterfly and Wildlife Park - Norwich - a set on Flickr
barring the hedgehog that entire set is 70mm+1.4TC and most of the other regular macro work in my stream is 1.4TC + one of the macro lenses


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## chris miss (Oct 19, 2009)

Thanks for the info, Overread. Is this the right TC? I checked the compatibility chart on B&H and the Canon 100mm wasn't listed, so I was hesitant to try it. I've added that to my Wish List.


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## icassell (Oct 19, 2009)

chris miss said:


> Thanks for the info, Overread. Is this the right TC? I checked the compatibility chart on B&H and the Canon 100mm wasn't listed, so I was hesitant to try it. I've added that to my Wish List.



Yep that's the one.  I'll see if I can scrape up a couple of images for you with the Canon 100.  I bought that TC on e-bay for just over $100 in pristine condition (and payed a bit more for my  2X)


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## chris miss (Oct 19, 2009)

Thanks, Ian. I look forward to seeing your photos. Don't go out of your way--as I said, it's only on my Wish List right now. I wonder if I could also use it on my Sigma 70-300 APO DG Macro as well. Wouldn't THAT be great if I could! Then I could finally get a chance for some great close-up bird shots.


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## icassell (Oct 19, 2009)

chris miss said:


> Thanks, Ian. I look forward to seeing your photos. Don't go out of your way--as I said, it's only on my Wish List right now. I wonder if I could also use it on my Sigma 70-300 APO DG Macro as well. Wouldn't THAT be great if I could! Then I could finally get a chance for some great close-up bird shots.



Well, it works great on my Sigma 100-300 f/4, but that is an EX series lens and that is what the TC was designed for. Do you have a local Sigma dealer that has one you can try?

I am a firm believer in e-bay for this sort of thing, BTW.  I even bought that 100-300mm f/4 that way for under half the list price.

I just grabbed this off e-bay ... don't know anything about this vendor ...
Sigma 1.4x APO Teleconverter for Canon EOS AF DG NIB - eBay (item 230387917614 end time Oct-20-09 07:45:58 PDT)


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## Overread (Oct 19, 2009)

The sigma TC won't fit on the 70-300mm lens - I have its older non-APO edition version and the TC simply won't attach at all. There is a small protruding lens element on the TC which hits the back element on the 70-300mm lens. 
Further even if you could add the 1.4TC, the max aperture of the lens would go smaller than f5.6 - which unless your on a pro end camera body is the cut off point for AF working - after that point it simply will not AF. Though with the sigma's there is a chance they won't report correctly to the camera so the AF function might remain, but the cut off is there because accuracy and speed drop way off after f5.6.
In addition whilst the 70-300mm APO has improved glass over the nonAPO edition I do think that with a TC added its overall image quality would be far less than desirable.
Just keep saving for that birding lens (I know I am -- well at least trying to)


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## decado (Oct 19, 2009)

Overread said:


> The sigma TC won't fit on the 70-300mm lens - I have its older non-APO edition version and the TC simply won't attach at all. There is a small protruding lens element on the TC which hits the back element on the 70-300mm lens.
> Further even if you could add the 1.4TC, the max aperture of the lens would go smaller than f5.6 - which unless your on a pro end camera body is the cut off point for AF working - after that point it simply will not AF. Though with the sigma's there is a chance they won't report correctly to the camera so the AF function might remain, but the cut off is there because accuracy and speed drop way off after f5.6.
> In addition whilst the 70-300mm APO has improved glass over the nonAPO edition I do think that with a TC added its overall image quality would be far less than desirable.
> Just keep saving for that birding lens (I know I am -- well at least trying to)


Which 70-300mm lens won't it fit on? I have the Canon 70-300 f/4-5.6 IS USM, will it work with that?


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## grafxman (Oct 19, 2009)

When I first became interested in Canon DSLRs over a year ago I spent a lot of time in the dpreview forum for Canon lens. Every month or two someone in that forum would ask about using a teleconverter. The usual and intuitive response would be that adding another piece of glass would invariably degrade the image. 

The proof offered for this observation was that the Canon teleconverters would visibly display a degraded image with a Canon lens. Then some pixel peeper, whose name I don't recall now, decided to try some other teleconverters. He discovered and proved that the Kenko 1.4X Teleplus Pro 300 DG does not degrade the image in any measurable manner. 

If I recall correctly he also demonstrated that 2 Kenko 1.4X teleconverters would just barely degrade the images. Again if I recall correctly, he determined the Kenko 2X for some reason would noticeably degrade the image. So, if memory serves, you would be better off using 2 Kenko 1.4X Teleplus Pro 300 DGs rather than one 2X teleconverter.


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## Overread (Oct 19, 2009)

I find it hard to belive that the kenko showed no image degradation when the canon did when tested under the same conditions on the same lens. 
This test might interest you: Juza Nature Photography

If you look at shots taken with the 200mm and the 200mm +1.4TC aside from a slight drop in contrast the TC shots show very little image degradation at all. In the field such image degradation is going to be very minor when compared to softnes caused by camera shake and subject movement - as well as haze if shooting over a longer distance.

As for the 2*1.4 VS a 2*TC I recall seeing tests, but can't find them, which I think showed the opposite of what your saying - that the 2*TC was beaten by the 1.4s.

Decado - I was refering to the sigma 70-300mm before the canon I have no idea of if the sigma TC will or will not fit the lens


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## ErectedGryphon (Oct 19, 2009)

Another great link Overread, the two reviews you posted make me think I'll get both the 1.4 and 2X, Canon of course.  Just bid on them over on ebay, if I cant save $100 on them, then I'll get them from a local dealer.


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## chris miss (Oct 19, 2009)

Overread said:


> Just keep saving for that birding lens (I know I am -- well at least trying to)



LOL. Yes, I suppose that's the best solution. Which lens are you saving for?


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## Overread (Oct 20, 2009)

ErectedGryphon said:


> Another great link Overread, the two reviews you posted make me think I'll get both the 1.4 and 2X, Canon of course.  Just bid on them over on ebay, if I cant save $100 on them, then I'll get them from a local dealer.



Remember the lenses (and camera) the guy in the reveiws is using are top range things - which will affect what you get out of the setup. A 1.4TC is a great thing so certainly go for it - the 2*TC is fun but don't expect to use it as often (unless you have a toprange prime lens  )


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## ErectedGryphon (Oct 20, 2009)

Overread said:


> ErectedGryphon said:
> 
> 
> > Another great link Overread, the two reviews you posted make me think I'll get both the 1.4 and 2X, Canon of course. Just bid on them over on ebay, if I cant save $100 on them, then I'll get them from a local dealer.
> ...


 

I will use them with an *EF 70-200 f/2.8L USM*, other postings I've read claim to have good results with that lens.  Once I actually get 1 and try it, I'll post my findings, if I don't like the results, I can eBay it with little or no loss.


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## grafxman (Oct 20, 2009)

Overread said:


> I find it hard to belive that the kenko showed no image degradation when the canon did when tested under the same conditions on the same lens.
> This test might interest you: Juza Nature Photography
> 
> If you look at shots taken with the 200mm and the 200mm +1.4TC aside from a slight drop in contrast the TC shots show very little image degradation at all. In the field such image degradation is going to be very minor when compared to softnes caused by camera shake and subject movement - as well as haze if shooting over a longer distance.
> ...



It turns out I did misremember a few things. It was a bit over 2 years ago when I first started posting in the Canon Lens Forum at dpreview.com. The older I get the faster time flies.   I lurked there for months before I ever posted. 

I too couldn't find what I was seeking but I did see a name that frequently popped up in postings regarding teleconverters and stacking them. So I emailed the guy, Lee Jay, and he does indeed use 2 1.4X teleconverters instead of a 2X teleconverter. However it's because a 2X teleconverter causes the lens be very slow when autofocusing. It's designed that way. With 2 1.4X teleconverters this doesn't happen because the camera only recognizes the first 1.4X teleconverter and focuses much faster. Thus 2 1.4 teleconverters are more desirable than a 2X converter.

Lee Jay advises me that the most important thing is using excellent glass such as an L lens. I believe someone else mentioned this here. Lee also said:

"The Canon 1.4x and 2x TC-IIs are very close to perfect optically.  The Kenko 
Pro is in the center, but not as good at the edges."

So regarding the original question from decado:

"What's a good brand for a 2x teleconverter? I was reading reviews of canon's EF 2x teleconverter and they say that it degrades the image. Are there 2x teleconverter's that don't degrade the image or would I be better off sticking to a 1.4x?"

I believe a Canon 2X may cause some slight degradation and focus slower but give greater magnification. The Canon 1.4X probably won't cause any noticeable degradation and will focus rapidly but provide less magnification. Using 2 1.4Xs may be your best choice. Kenko 1.4X Teleplus Pro 300 DG teleconverters can be used if the images will be cropped since they are not as sharp at the edges.


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## Overread (Oct 20, 2009)

ErectedGryphon - Ahh in that case - I am no Juza (yet  ) but:

70-200mm f2.8 IS L +1.4TC : IMG_1025 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
any mostly anything else that's not a bug and taken with the 70-200mm has the 1.4TC attached as well

70-200mm f2.8 IS L +2*TC : little birds photos test - a set on Flickr
There are 100% crops with that last set as well

edit - ahh that sounds a little better! Though I always thought that the drop in AF speed was not the TC acting, but the light loss at the result of using the TC. Two 1.4s is still around only 1.8*magnification so maybe that little 0.2 loss is something that makes all the difference in the longrun since the light lost is a physical factor. Unless the lack of reporting the other stop of light lost from the two 1.4s adjust some setting in the camera?


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## grafxman (Oct 20, 2009)

Overread said:


> ErectedGryphon - Ahh in that case - I am no Juza (yet  ) but:
> 
> 70-200mm f2.8 IS L +1.4TC : IMG_1025 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
> any mostly anything else that's not a bug and taken with the 70-200mm has the 1.4TC attached as well
> ...



Your photos look terrific to me. Did you notice any slowness in the focusing of the 2X teleconverter when shooting the birds?


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## Overread (Oct 20, 2009)

For those bird shots the light was already rather poor (hence why I used flash to boost the lighting) so focusing was slower. Overall the speed does drop, but I have never been in a massivly fast situation with the setup so the AF was mostly good enough to get a lockon when needed and I've never really compared by how much the speed does drop.


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## gsgary (Oct 20, 2009)

I use the Kenko pro 300 2X on my Canon 300mmF2.8L and it rocks 
Kenko 2X






with canon1.4x handheld





Kenko 2x + 1.4x on 300mmF2.8L


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## grafxman (Oct 20, 2009)

gsgary, I zoomed your bottom image (#88) to 300% and it appears flawless to my old eyes. Now that you are boldly going where no one has gone before :sillysmi: , when can we expect to see some shots with Kenko's 3X teleconverter?


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## icassell (Oct 21, 2009)

I went out this evening and grabbed some quick shots with my Canon 100mm f/2.8 Macro and Sigma EX 1.4X TC


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## porkphoto (Oct 21, 2009)

I am a Canon 5D user, also 2x TC w/70-200 f2.8L IS USM...an unbeatable combination IMO.You will be shooting with world class equipment if you choose this route. But be forewarned the price is high to fly high.


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## chris miss (Oct 22, 2009)

Thanks, Ian, for taking the time to shoot a few pictures to post for us. They look great. I'll definitely put the 1.4 TC on my Wish List for the future.


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## ErectedGryphon (Oct 23, 2009)

Well, I did it, I got the *Canon Extender EF 2x II *today, I ended up paying $250 for it. The cheapest I could find it on-line was $325, and locally for $370, so I went a different route.

This is what I posted on Craigslist:



			
				Craigslist said:
			
		

> Looking to buy a Canon Extender please see list of what I will pay below:
> 
> Canon EF 2x II - $250.00
> 
> ...


 
I didn't actually expect anyone to respond, but I had 1 email offering the 1.4x II to me for $240, and then the one for the 2.0x II came in missing front cap (already bought front cap on ebay). 

I met the guy, in a public place of course, and tried it out. It worked, and after cleaning it with my lens pen, the glass was in perfect condition. I've run a few frames, indoors since it is night, and it performs as I would expect a "NEW" one to, though it has some scuffs on the paint (normal wear and tear I guess).

Tomorrow I will do a whole outdoor workup using my 70-200 f/2.8 both with and without the extender, and will post up a review with all the pics large enough for you to see the details for yourself. REVIEW IS HERE!


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## icassell (Oct 23, 2009)

ErectedGryphon said:


> Tomorrow I will do a whole outdoor workup using my 70-200 f/2.8 both with and without the extender, and will post up a review with all the pics large enough for you to see the details for yourself.



Excellent!  I look forward to seeing your results!


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