# Do You Have A "Professional" Camera?



## JEgbert (Jun 11, 2005)

At almost to no end, I am asked this every day... I almost want to climb atop Pikes Peak and Scream as loudly as I can..." What does it matter!?" Seriously, I have used almost every brand of camera made and guess what? They're all quite capable of making the greatest photograph ever made, but the real key to the puzzle is, it all depends on who's hand they're in and how they are used.

   To define how great photography is made, you need to take the camera out of the room for a moment. Great photography is made first through a visualization in the mind made by an optical impression captured by the eyes and sent to the brain then emotionally filtered, spiritually filtered and then frantically but purposefully stuffed into the lens and little black box where the film or digital sensor is waiting to record the result of your short term mental breakdown.

  Actually when I am teaching my workshops or speaking to those who are gearing up for one, I don't say it quite that way, but this is the point I try to convey in a more politically correct fashion. When seeking a camera system for your photographic journey, consider what you need to capture the images that your eyes and mind tell you are the best thing since slices bread or a six pack of bottled beer. the questions you need to be asking are, what am I trying to capture, what is my main subject matter, what do I want to do with the images I capture. Each of these will determine the equipment needed to do what you want.

  When a potential student asks me anything about what they need, I turn in to Socrates and start asking questions of them so that they can answer their own questions. I do this in the field when teaching as well, but the best way to find answers is to ask questions and sometime the best answers are questions. When I go out to buy equipment my primer is usually that I saw an image in a magazine or website that made me stop and go wow. Then if I am lucky the photographer left some notes on how he or she created the photograph and thus I find some gadget or tool I must have or I will surely die.  that's what I tell my loving and patient wife and as she rolls her eyes and hands me the credit card I am off to buy the holy grail of photography. Thus the moral of the story is that a smart photographer will never have the credit card on them at all times, or they will surely become the poor starving divorced "wanna be" photographer. personally I know some really well equipped photographers who never get out to photograph anything because they spent all their money buying the latest and greatest, "bestest" and most highly rated equipment known to man kind and now they're broke.  I know "bestest" isn't a real fancy or even a real word, but it works for me.

  When I buy my equipment, I make Abe Lincoln Scream in pain as I pinch every penny I can, while not compromising on quality. I look for the basic functions versus the bells and whistles. I ask myself, do I need a camera that does it for me, or the one that makes me think for myself and create the images I want to create. Hint... the answer is go cheap!  Heck I can't drive 255 mph so I don't need a Ferrari I'll take the beat up abused jeep in the corner that's going to get me where I want to be when I get there.

  I used to work at a camera store and a lady came to the counter and asked to see a professional camera,  I grinned turned around and grabbed a  throw away Kodak box camera and handed it to her. With puzzlement she looked at me and pointed at the super gigantic Nikon F5 sitting on the golden pillar of honor bathed in a warm glow of halogen light saying, "No that's the camera I was talking about I want a professional camera for my husband to learn on." Again I grinned and pushed the little Kodak disposable her way and said, "This is as much a professional camera as the one you pointed to as well." I had her hooked and confused. She then asked me, "What makes that camera a professional camera like the one I was pointing to?" "It depends on who is holding it."  I explained, "Every camera in this store can be a professional camera in the hands of a professional, but on that same note every camera including the one you pointed to is also an amateur camera in the hands of an amateur."

  Once she saw that I wasn't going to sell her a camera that her husband didn't need and was the most expensive, I began to ask her what his interests in photography were and what he hoped to do. I also asked her if he planned to do this as a casual hobby or become an overnight professional. I asked about his current knowledge of photography and equipment and by the end of the sale I sold her two lower priced fully functional Nikon F100 bodies and lenses so she could learn photography along side of her husband. She came back once a month after that and always asked for me when buying new equipment. By the way they have also attended many workshops and classes that I recommended as well.

  So does it matter what Camera I use? What Film I use or what lens? The answer is both yes and no! Yes it matters what I use for functions I need, but brand and model do not. Go out and buy whatever brand you find that has the functions you need and enjoy!:er:


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## ksmattfish (Jun 11, 2005)

> Let me here call attention to one of the most universally popular mistakes that have to do with photography - that of classing supposedly excellent work as professional, and using the term amateur to convey the idea of immature productions and to excuse atrociously poor photographs. As a matter of fact nearly all the greatest work is being, and has always been done, by those who are following photography for the love of it, and not merely for financial reasons. As the name implies, an amateur is one who works for love; and viewed in this light the incorrectness of the popular classification is readily apparent.



Alfred Stieglitz said this in 1899.  It's always been one of my favorite quotes.

http://www.masters-of-photography.com/S/stieglitz/stieglitz.html


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## Hertz van Rental (Jun 11, 2005)

It would have been nice if you had written something original for us and not just reposted something off of your website. 
I find it amusing the number of people who bang on about it being the person and not the camera that is important when taking a picture - but who themselves use expensive 'professional' cameras. If this claim is true then surely you should practice what you preach ;-)


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## Kent Frost (Jun 11, 2005)

Way to get the new people to stick around, van.


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## DocFrankenstein (Jun 12, 2005)

I've bought myself more than one consumer camera and regret it very much. Money should be spent once to obtain a functional tool for the job. I prefer to actually think of my creations instead of fighting lacking equipment.


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## fadingaway1986 (Jun 12, 2005)

Gee, I hope you work for yourself, otherwise the boss wouldn't be too happy.

On another note - you would really piss me off if you did that to me.

And I kinda don't get the point of your post... This forum's topic is "General Photography and Camera Q&A" (Q&A means Questions and Answers).

So - wheres the questions?

Personally - if you turned up to my wedding or something, with a disposable camera, I would tell you where to go.I think in order to make great pictures you do need a "professional" camera. One with functions that allow you to set the Aperture, Shutter speed, etc.


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## hobbes28 (Jun 12, 2005)

Ahhh still so much emotion in this topic.  Everyone here has valid points to both sides of the coin.  I often wonder where the line is drawn between consumer grade and professional grade.  Is a professional camera one that you can change the aperature or shutter speeds on?  If that's the case, you should call my cheap Konica a professional camera.  For that matter, my old point and shoot digital would let me make those manual adjustments so, where's the line?  I think the term "professional" comes from the cameras that cost so much that you wouldn't want to buy it unless you were a professional.  The features are great on them but the regular consumer wouldn't want to purchase them nor would they need to.  That would mean to me that the term "professional camera" is more for cost/feature purposes vs the kind of picture it takes.

I often find myself falling into the category of person that Hertz is outlining.  I'm a firm believer that you don't have to have a "professional" camera to take professional photographs but I do find myself moving away from my old manual cameras (I don't consider them "professional") when I take my pictures.  I'd like to get back to using them half time at least but that's a personal goal.

Glad you could get that all off your chest.  I feel better.


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## Artemis (Jun 12, 2005)

My belief is, id rather spend £1000 on a camera, than waste £200 on a poor camera I dont want, and personally I do feel that I need a nice pro camera, cause I want one, simple as that.
BUT I also feel I need a compact, for everyday use when bringing my huge chunky SLR would not be a good idea, like when out late at night?


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## KevinR (Jun 12, 2005)

Well, this could moved to the photographic section anytime.

It is a subject that I have been thinking about lately though. I am going to be shooting my first wedding in a week. I invited a former student(welding) to shoot it with me(this is a family wedding, really no money involved). He has some pretty impressive equipment. He is going to shoot digital, and I am shooting film(mainly B&W). He keeps going on about his equipment and I keep trying to explain to him that, sure it's nice to have that stuff, it still doesn't make him a great photographer. This just doesn't sink in.

To quote Brooks Jenson from Lenswork
"Never forget that all the great photographs in history were made with more primitive camera equipment than you currently own"

Except maybe Matt.


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## LizM (Jun 12, 2005)

I look at it this way...a skilled carpenter can build an intricate puzzle box with a chisel and hammer...but if they have a jigsaw it takes a whole lot less time!


I like SLRs (digital and film) because of the control of the recorded image they allow. The bells and whistles on some SLRs aren't a necessity but they are fun!

I remember I was meeting a family at a local park to take portraits of them and their 4 year old son. Another photographer came up (she was waiting on another family to do basically the same shots). She saw the digital camera and was all excited about it until she found out it was a Digital Rebel. Then her nose wrinkled up and she said something about waiting until she could afford the "professional" 20D. :er:I just gave her the indulgent smile  you give a slow-witted person and let her drift away to scout her preferred photo location (I had scouted the entire park the day before to make sure the rains hadn't muddied anything up). She quickly found out that one site was not accessable due to the creek rising. Oh well, maybe one day she'll start _thinking_ like a professional instead of just depending on equipment.


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## Artemis (Jun 12, 2005)

LizM said:
			
		

> I look at it this way...a skilled carpenter can build an intricate puzzle box with a chisel and hammer...but if they have a jigsaw it takes a whole lot less time!
> 
> 
> I like SLRs (digital and film) because of the control of the recorded image they allow. The bells and whistles on some SLRs aren't a necessity but they are fun!
> ...



:thumbup:


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## Artemis (Jun 12, 2005)

Kent Frost said:
			
		

> Way to get the new people to stick around, van.



What do you mean?


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## DocFrankenstein (Jun 12, 2005)

LizM said:
			
		

> I look at it this way...a skilled carpenter can build an intricate puzzle box with a chisel and hammer...but if they have a jigsaw it takes a whole lot less time!


 Err... and how many professional carpenters do you see working with chisels and hammers? :er:



> I just gave her the indulgent smile you give a slow-witted person and let her drift away to scout her preferred photo location (I had scouted the entire park the day before to make sure the rains hadn't muddied anything up). She quickly found out that one site was not accessable due to the creek rising. Oh well, maybe one day she'll start _thinking_ like a professional instead of just depending on equipment.


No reason to call a person slow witted just because they know what camera they want. I think the brighter viewfinder, partial metering and low ISO alone is worth it. You've ever compared rebel's dimhole to a decent viewfinder of an SLR?

BTW: I took the liberty of looking through your "photojournalist" photos and they honestly suck. No concept of composition, no impact... you don't even get close enough to the subject most of the time.

So you're not quite qualified to call anyone slow-witted just because they don't drop on their ass when they see your rebel.

Feel free to prove me wrong by posting kickass pics of that family in the park.


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## terri (Jun 12, 2005)

> Great photography is made first through a visualization in the mind made by an optical impression captured by the eyes and sent to the brain then emotionally filtered, spiritually filtered and then frantically but purposefully stuffed into the lens and little black box where the film or digital sensor is waiting to record the result of your short term mental breakdown.


    Thanks for that - I don't mind in the least if that's a repost from your website.   It's the funniest thing I've read on here in awhile.   I appreciate your thoughts, JEgbert.   :thumbup:


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## LizM (Jun 12, 2005)

DocFrankenstein said:
			
		

> Err... and how many professional carpenters do you see working with chisels and hammers? :er:.


I said they COULD, not that they prefer to.




			
				DocFrankenstein said:
			
		

> No reason to call a person slow witted just because they know what camera they want. I think the brighter viewfinder, partial metering and low ISO alone is worth it. You've ever compared rebel's dimhole to a decent viewfinder of an SLR?
> 
> BTW: I took the liberty of looking through your "photojournalist" photos and they honestly suck. No concept of composition, no impact... you don't even get close enough to the subject most of the time.
> 
> ...


Man, somebody woke up on the wrong side of the hormones!  The rest of that doesn't even deserve this much of a response.


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## hobbes28 (Jun 12, 2005)

DocFrankenstein said:
			
		

> No reason to call a person slow witted just because they know what camera they want. I think the brighter viewfinder, partial metering and low ISO alone is worth it. You've ever compared rebel's dimhole to a decent viewfinder of an SLR?
> 
> BTW: I took the liberty of looking through your "photojournalist" photos and they honestly suck. No concept of composition, no impact... you don't even get close enough to the subject most of the time.
> 
> ...




Let's refrain from personal attacks, please.  This is an opinion from one person on the forum.  If you have a different opinion, it's okay to share with the rest of us but going onto someone's site and critisizing their work is completely uncalled for.


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## Artemis (Jun 12, 2005)

hobbes28 said:
			
		

> Let's refrain from personal attacks, please. This is an opinion from one person on the forum. If you have a different opinion, it's okay to share with the rest of us but going onto someone's site and critisizing their work is completely uncalled for.



I agree, no need to get nasty.

Infact I wanna apologise to the orignally poster, they were simply saying what they believe and I kinda attacked em


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## LizM (Jun 12, 2005)

Thanks Artemis and Hobbes. No worries though, Doc has posted some pretty negetive stuff about the Rebel before. Some people are just like that. No skin off my nose. I'm not even sure he/she looked at any of my photos. I don't have a public site (too many copyright issues). All I can figure is he found some stuff I posted here he/she didn't like.

Anyway, life goes on.

;-)


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## lazarus219 (Jun 13, 2005)

Even if the article was copied at least it was a decent article,

i know people will always have different views- buti think every person on here would have thought about buying a camera they really dont need, but it still always seems like a good idea,
Right now ive got my fuji S5500- its a great camera but ive thought how much i want DSLR- but in my recent shoots ive noticed i never even use the full features of my camera- ive had it for 7 months and have only began using exposure compensation in the last week ( i never really needed it until then) so right now my camera is perfect for me- i know in the future i will jump onto something 'better' but right now im happy,
I recently helped a freind decide on a camera (he went from being dead set on the S5500 all the way through to the 1ds markII and everything in between, including considering medium format- and this is someone who dosent know what aperture or composition is, after he finally ordered a nikon 5700 on my advice- he began looknig for accessories- flashes,converters,filters,remotes,cable release,incident light meter, all this stuff he could buy, have no idea how to use just because it was available and he thought he would use it, he ended up not getting the flash or any other accessories and he is real happy but still always looking at other options.
His photos arent good at all at the moment due to lack of practical knowledge but they will get better and all he needs is the camera, i dont think he gets that yet though

lonnnnng post


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## WhiteLight (Jun 13, 2005)

each has its advantage, dslr has lenses to change, etc. Ik like to have one of both. DSLR for professional shooting and a simple camera to take with me all the time.


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## Artemis (Jun 13, 2005)

WhiteLight said:
			
		

> each has its advantage, dslr has lenses to change, etc. Ik like to have one of both. DSLR for professional shooting and a simple camera to take with me all the time.



:thumbup::thumbup:


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## ksmattfish (Jun 13, 2005)

By the way, no one should forget their professional photography accessories such as:

"Photographer Badge":  black plastic badge with white lettering that says Photographer

"Photographer Patch":  black cloth patch with white lettering that says Photographer

"Photographer's ID Card Set":  assorted ID cards that "identify yourself as a working photographer", such as:  sports photographer, wedding photographer, TV photographer, press photographer, news photographer, staff photographer, and the all important official photographer.

These are items from the Porter's catalog.  I'm sure they've got some hat badges somewhere, and maybe even some stickers that say "professional" that we can stick on our cameras. 

I'm ordering mine as soon as I get ordained as a minister for sending in a self addressed stamped envelope to some mail order church. 

EDIT:  I'm going to stick a "professional" label on one of my Holgas.  Heck, it's big, black, and overpriced, which is the main criteria that makes a camera "professional" anyway.


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## santino (Jun 13, 2005)

my lubitel is the most professional camera ever! it's black, it's a TLR and you can get it for 10 bucks


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## Armstror (Jun 13, 2005)

I've always put myself down as a photographer because i don't own one of those "Professional" cameras. At the moment, sure i have the ability to borrow some of my workplace's digital Nikons and Cannon thingies. They sure were hard to get used to after learning on the older (Atleast i think they're older.  ) 3mm SLR's.

But if you want to get with the specifics, the only camera i own that's good enough for taking pictures is my digital point-and-shoot. (Not sure what brand, never paid much attention to that. Plus i'm bad with names.) Sure you can say that it's the photographer who creates the image and not the camera, but your camera acts like your paintbrush. Brushes that you find in those cheesy, two dollar paint kits aren't as good as those you find in an actual artsie fartsie art store. One is easier to control brush stroke with, the other just doesn't like to co-operate at all.

Thats how i feel about my digital camera. It has nothing on it that allows you to control settings to get a good image. There's only a button you can flick that will change it from indoor lighting to outdoor-Which only makes images blurry. What i consider a "Professional" camera is one that allows you to control the focal point, the shutter speed and the light. I don't care about image screens or fancy settings that add more white to your image or saves your light settings for pictures in the future. Just give me more control! 

Though i can admit, i do agree. It can also be the photographer and not the camera. It's the photographer who sets the whole image up. It's he/she who finds the emotion, that one perfect scene or angle that would make the image complete.
JEgbert, what you said was very inspiring to me and i will think next time i try out my little digital camera. I already have. What if i can make good pictures with my dinky little gadget? So i tried. It just irks me that i can't get the light to look right. Or i can't control the focal point.  There are only so many things you can do with a point and shoot. So that is probably why they're never condsidered decent enough for "True Photography".

I dunno. Those are just my thoughts. But thanks to you i love my little silver camera. Hehehe. :heart:


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## photogoddess (Jun 13, 2005)

ksmattfish said:
			
		

> EDIT:  I'm going to stick a "professional" label on one of my Holgas.  Heck, it's big, black, and overpriced, which is the main criteria that makes a camera "professional" anyway.



That's the funniest thing I've heard all day! Can you get an extra label for mine too?


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## terri (Jun 13, 2005)

photogoddess said:
			
		

> That's the funniest thing I've heard all day! Can you get an extra label for mine too?


I'll have you know I can get in _anywhere_ since I put one on mine, Tammy.   People stand up and make way for me, actually.   :mrgreen:


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## ksmattfish (Jun 13, 2005)

Actually, a sticker that says "professional" stuck on your camera won't get you as far as a big "Canon" sticker.  Last Saturday I was shooting poses at a wedding, and a guest walked up and made the comment "Is that a Canon?"  "Nope, it's a Hasselblad" I replied.  "Ohhh...", he said sounding disappointed, "I figured you'd be using a Canon for professional photography."


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## hobbes28 (Jun 13, 2005)

ksmattfish said:
			
		

> Actually, a sticker that says "professional" stuck on your camera won't get you as far as a big "Canon" sticker.  Last Saturday I was shooting poses at a wedding, and a guest walked up and made the comment "Is that a Canon?"  "Nope, it's a Hasselblad" I replied.  "Ohhh...", he said sounding disappointed, "I figured you'd be using a Canon for professional photography."



Now that's funny!!!  I think I may have laughed up part of my stomach on that one. :mrgreen:


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## photogoddess (Jun 13, 2005)

And I just snarfed Diet Coke out my nose!


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## ksmattfish (Jun 13, 2005)

For some reason I just can't let this thread drop...

I've thought up a new accessory that I'm going to start marketing.  It's a chunk of wood approx 1.5" x 2" x 5".  I'll round off the corners, paint it black, and put "Professional" (or Canon) in big white letters.  It attaches to the bottom of a camera with a 1/4" tripod mount simulating that cool battery grip look (my 20D has the battery grip, so I'm being a hypocrit here    ), and turns any dorky camera (like a Hassy) into a sweet, pro model.


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## hobbes28 (Jun 13, 2005)

OoOOoOO...can you make one for my disposable camera?


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## ksmattfish (Jun 13, 2005)

hobbes28 said:
			
		

> OoOOoOO...can you make one for my disposable camera?


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## DIRT (Jun 13, 2005)

DocFrankenstein said:
			
		

> BTW: I took the liberty of looking through your "photojournalist" photos and they honestly suck. No concept of composition, no impact... you don't even get close enough to the subject most of the time.
> 
> Feel free to prove me wrong by posting kickass pics of that family in the park.



DAMN BRO!  

(Please dont look at any of my stuf then) hehehe


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## Hertz van Rental (Jun 14, 2005)

ksmattfish said:
			
		

> For some reason I just can't let this thread drop...
> 
> I've thought up a new accessory that I'm going to start marketing.  It's a chunk of wood approx 1.5" x 2" x 5".  I'll round off the corners, paint it black, and put "Professional" (or Canon) in big white letters.  It attaches to the bottom of a camera with a 1/4" tripod mount simulating that cool battery grip look (my 20D has the battery grip, so I'm being a hypocrit here    ), and turns any dorky camera (like a Hassy) into a sweet, pro model.


Cheaper and easier to use a carton of some kind - I use a shoebox with a yoghurt tub taped to the front so people think I'm doing LF. Just remember to crayon a suitably impressive name on it (you should see my Hasselblad 35mm....)

And I make my tripods out of cheese straws - sturdy, cheap and nutritious!
(Not too good in the rain though so I'm working on a wet weather version.
I'm also developing the first edible camera so I can take pictures of the wedding _and_ supply the buffet.
How's that for professional?)


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## santino (Jun 14, 2005)

make me a battery grip for my lubitel 2, it has to be black and there has to be "professional" in big white letters on it.


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## lazarus219 (Jun 14, 2005)

Funny how most people would take hassy over canon anyday (unless they had lenses and that kinda thing) but your not pro unless you shoot canon 

wonder were they got the idea about that from?


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## ksmattfish (Jun 14, 2005)

lazarus219 said:
			
		

> wonder were they got the idea about that from?



TV.  Most of the pro photogs people see on TV are paparazzi, sports, news, or wildlife photographers using high dollar 35mm and digital gear.  They don't see wedding and portrait photographers.  And Hasselblad doesn't have TV ads.


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## photogoddess (Jun 14, 2005)

Hey Matt, I'll trade you my Canon for that Hassy.


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## Hertz van Rental (Jun 14, 2005)

photogoddess said:
			
		

> Hey Matt, I'll trade you my Canon for that Hassy.


Pah! Kids toys. You want to go for a serious pro camera like a twin lens Laundromat.


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## photogoddess (Jun 14, 2005)

Hertz van Rental said:
			
		

> Pah! Kids toys. You want to go for a serious pro camera like a twin lens Laundromat.



No thanks. On second thought, I've already got a Holga with a "professional" label on it just like Terri's. :lmao:


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## ksmattfish (Jun 14, 2005)

Hertz van Rental said:
			
		

> You want to go for a serious pro camera like a twin lens Laundromat.



Something like this?  (look at the bottom of the page)

http://www.petergowland.com/camera/

The bigger the camera is, of course, the more "professional" it is.


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## Hertz van Rental (Jun 14, 2005)

I've seen his stuff before - and I'm tempted to buy one. Be great for those candid snaps at parties.
Whipping one of those babies out of your camera bag for a quick tourist shot would certainly impress.

Do you think they come with a surgical support?


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## hobbes28 (Jun 14, 2005)

That has to be the grossest thing I've ever seen...I don't even know what to say about that.........and the he/she at the bottom is pretty disgusting too. :lmao:


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## danalec99 (Jun 14, 2005)

I'll have the Gigapxl camera, please! WITH a Canon banner.


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## darin3200 (Jun 14, 2005)

danalec99 said:
			
		

> I'll have the Gigapxl camera, please! WITH a Canon banner.


Wow, that's scary 
http://www.gigapxl.org/gallery-SanDiegoNight.htm


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## Artemis (Jun 15, 2005)

Ill go for a holographic one they have in star trek...ohh the possibilities!


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## iSellJerseyShore (Jun 15, 2005)

darin3200 said:
			
		

> Wow, that's scary
> http://www.gigapxl.org/gallery-SanDiegoNight.htm


 

:hail:  You can pretty much see whats on the walls in those buildings!! 




-iSellJerseyShore


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## Andrea K (Jun 15, 2005)

i wonder how much the rent is?


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## deb (Jun 15, 2005)

I think I enjoyed this thread more than any I've read in a long time.

People really get touchy about their camera.  

I have to admit that every now and then I "get back to basics".  Sometimes I revert back to less than basic (you remember, when you had to cock the shutter to take the picture).  

Sometimes it's all about the challenge.  It's like some pics I've been doing recently of some blue herons.  I love the birds.  They sit still for long periods, fly gracefully and if I get there early enough, they don't even care if I'm perched on the rocks above them.  I could easily set up with with a tripod, a 500 mm lens, remote cable and get the shot I want.  Can I anticipate the bird's actions and get that shot using a small digital camera and a teleconverter..........not yet, but I keep trying.

There are times you have to impress a client with your equipment.  More importantly is the ability to impress yourself with your photographs.


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## DIRT (Jun 15, 2005)

If a person IS professional, they should be able to get a great image on any camera wether a digital super hero or a paint can pinhole cam.


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## ksmattfish (Jun 16, 2005)

DIRT said:
			
		

> If a person IS professional, they should be able to get a great image on any camera wether a digital super hero or a paint can pinhole cam.



See, I would change that to "If a person IS a great photographer...".  A professional is someone who merely makes money.  We infer that the term "professional" means  better quality, greater skills, etc..., but all it really means is that it's gonna cost you.    I've seen too many "pros" who were horrible photographers, and plenty of amateur photographers who produce stunning work.  Cheers to the amateur!


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## Hertz van Rental (Jun 16, 2005)

It's all about knowing the limitations of the camera you are using and working within them.
An expensive 'pro' camera with lots of bells and whistles that bolt on just gives you more scope and flexibility - but this often works against creativity and can lead to 'gadget mentality'.
The number of times I have heard people say things like 'I would have got a great shot if only I had had the right lens'. It's just an excuse for not being very good.
A good photographer will get the best shot he can with whatever he has in his hands.


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## danalec99 (Jun 16, 2005)

I think "It is the photographer, not the tool" statement might not literally be applicable in all cases. Yes, it defenitely *is* the photographer who should pull the strings, but certain tools would help photographers acheive their goals. Can we shoot for the Sports Illustrated with a pinhole?


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## gypsyIX (Jun 16, 2005)

"wow those are nice pictures... you must have a really good camera."

if i had a nickel for every time i heard that phrase, i would have paid off my mamiya by now!

think of it this way... "wow this meal is delicious.  you must have really nice pots and pans."


meredith


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## ksmattfish (Jun 16, 2005)

> Can we shoot for the Sports Illustrated with a pinhole?



Maybe not every photog, but I've seen some pinholers who I think could.


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## danalec99 (Jun 16, 2005)

ksmattfish said:
			
		

> Maybe not every photog, but I've seen some pinholers who I think could.


Cool, would you happen to have links to their work?


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## Ant (Jun 18, 2005)

A good article that's slightly related to this:

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-6468-7844


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## Artemis (Jun 18, 2005)

ksmattfish said:
			
		

> See, I would change that to "If a person IS a great photographer...". A professional is someone who merely makes money. We infer that the term "professional" means better quality, greater skills, etc..., but all it really means is that it's gonna cost you.  I've seen too many "pros" who were horrible photographers, and plenty of amateur photographers who produce stunning work. Cheers to the amateur!



Sweet, that makes me a professional! haha! YES! I get paid and such to do some photography....w000t in your face! (Sorry)

hehe I agree, great photographer I am not, and I still have a top of the range camera  I have no excuse


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## Jaze1618 (Jun 19, 2005)

No i do not sadly


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## lazarus219 (Jun 19, 2005)

It dosent feel right when someone complements your camera for taking a great shot huh


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## ksmattfish (Jul 2, 2005)

I had to resurrect this thread , because tonight I shot a wedding with a Pentax K-1000, while the Bride's father and sister ran around with a Nikon DX1 and a Nikon F5.  They both did double takes when they saw my puny camera, but they'd been to my website, and liked my stuff, so it wasn't a big deal.  

They had so much gear that I asked if they were professional photographers; nope, the sister is an aspiring photographer, and dad is a big NASCAR fan, and needs the heavy duty gear to get shots of the race cars.

Their cameras had giant (like 28-300+), slow, consumer zooms, while I was using  fast primes, so I think our photos will have a different look.  Hopefully their photos will compliment mine.  The father approached me and said that he hoped I didn't mind, but they were passionate amateur photogs.  I told him "no problem", I understand


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## Hertz van Rental (Jul 3, 2005)

ksmattfish said:
			
		

> I shot a wedding with a Pentax K-1000


Nothing wrong with the Pentax K1000. I have one in my cupboard - even though I'm a dyed-in-the-wool Olympus man (SLR & DSLR). I bought it for my son when he wanted to do Photography. They are good, robust and dependable cameras with great lenses... and built like tanks. What more do you want in a camera?


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## DocFrankenstein (Jul 3, 2005)

> > One common question posted on this newsgroup pertains to whether or not
> > "pros" use a particular camera,... These are obviously amateurs
> > posting these questions, since a professional
> > would already know better. I've met some amateurs fully loaded with
> ...


1


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## terri (Jul 3, 2005)

ksmattfish said:
			
		

> I had to resurrect this thread , because tonight I shot a wedding with a Pentax K-1000, while the Bride's father and sister ran around with a Nikon DX1 and a Nikon F5. They both did double takes when they saw my puny camera, but they'd been to my website, and liked my stuff, so it wasn't a big deal.
> 
> They had so much gear that I asked if they were professional photographers; nope, the sister is an aspiring photographer, and dad is a big NASCAR fan, and needs the heavy duty gear to get shots of the race cars.
> 
> Their cameras had giant (like 28-300+), slow, consumer zooms, while I was using fast primes, so I think our photos will have a different look. Hopefully their photos will compliment mine. The father approached me and said that he hoped I didn't mind, but they were passionate amateur photogs. I told him "no problem", I understand


 Ha, good story, Matt. Be sure to post some of those Pentax pics!


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## wharrison (Jul 3, 2005)

Unfortunately, this is one of those endless "discussions" that end up going nowhere and, in the process seem to discourage or "PO" a lot of people. It is somewhat said, that photographers seem to be the only ones discussing such topics.  I have never witnessed conversations with architectects who argue or discuss such things as drafting boards, paper, drawing or drafting pencils, etc. 

Over the years, I've seen many "professional" people - doctors and lawyers - take ordinary to sometimes poor photographs with their Leicas and Hasselblads and equally many fine amateur photographers who take excellent to superb photographs with other cameras.

On this point, perhaps a word from Alfred Eisenstaedt, one of the original photographers for Life magazine, might offer something useful.


"The key to Eisenstaedt's genius lay in his humility and humanity. "My style hasn't changed much in all these sixty years," he explained. "I still use, most of the time, existing light and try not to push people around. I have to be as much a diplomat as a photographer. People often don't take me seriously because I carry so little equipment and make so little fuss. When I married in 1949, my wife asked me. 'But where are your real cameras?' I never carried a lot of equipment. My motto has always been, 'Keep it simple.'"

A link to a short biography and some photographs is given below.  For those, who enjoy reading in the area of photography his "The Eye of Eisenstaedt" is still a superb read.  Copies are available through your public library and/or through alibris.com or abe.com - both excellent sources of used books.

http://artscenecal.com/ArticlesFile/Archive/Articles1997/Articles0397/AEisenstaedt.html

Bill


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## erniehatt (Jul 3, 2005)

Well I must say, if you people are going to continue to be rude and insulting Im afraid you are going to deter others away from the forum. Although I don't necessarilly agree with all that he said, it does make some sense. It seems that many ofnyou are not old enough to remember the box browne cameras of years ago, they  took some very good pictures, I have seen some pictures taken by profesional photographers using them, given the quality of film in tha era theyn were brilliant. The dicsionary says that a profesional is someone doing an activity for pay, and some one skilled in the field of there endevour, nothing about the equipment they use. It is a known fact that there are people out there that must have the latest and the best, wether they are capable of using it or not, and those that have asperations but no skill to back it up. As the gentleman said earlier "nice way to get new people to stick around" I think not. The more I see of this Forum the more I have concerns. Ernie


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## Xmetal (Jul 3, 2005)

My grasp of a Pro shooter is someone who does it solely for a living - not someone who owns a super-duper SLR with a big collection of gear that only shoots on weekends.

I shoot for money as well the 'love of the game' but I don't shoot for a living therefore i'm not a Pro, People think my works look professional but they get a rude shock when they actually find out that i'm a hobbyist with a Canon Powershot S45.


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## photogoddess (Jul 4, 2005)

erniehatt said:
			
		

> Well I must say, if you people are going to continue to be rude and insulting Im afraid you are going to deter others away from the forum. Although I don't necessarilly agree with all that he said, it does make some sense. It seems that many ofnyou are not old enough to remember the box browne cameras of years ago, they  took some very good pictures, I have seen some pictures taken by profesional photographers using them, given the quality of film in tha era theyn were brilliant. The dicsionary says that a profesional is someone doing an activity for pay, and some one skilled in the field of there endevour, nothing about the equipment they use. It is a known fact that there are people out there that must have the latest and the best, wether they are capable of using it or not, and those that have asperations but no skill to back it up. As the gentleman said earlier "nice way to get new people to stick around" I think not. The more I see of this Forum the more I have concerns. Ernie



I think perhaps that you've misunderstood this thread. We have many  photographers here that work professionally using cameras that are perceived as archaic. They are merely joking about only Canon being professional cameras and putting "professional" labels on their cameras. Please read through the entire thread without all of the seriousness and have a good laugh like the rest of us. We're talking about people's perception of what a professional camera is, not reality. If you don't believe me, do a forum search and find some of the serious photographers here that take some pretty awesome photos with Holgas and other vintage cameras here. I'm pretty sure that we all know that it's not the camera that takes a photo, it's the person behind the camera that does.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Nov 21, 2012)

i want a professional camera


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## manaheim (Nov 21, 2012)

This jonny guy is going around revitalizing threads from 12.6 trillion years ago.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Nov 22, 2012)

yeah, crazy spammer he is.


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## unpopular (Nov 22, 2012)

wouldn't a professional camera be one that is used by a professional?


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## KenC (Nov 22, 2012)

unpopular said:


> wouldn't a professional camera be one that is used by a professional?



This in turn lead to the question: "what is a professional?"  However, we've beaten that horse into glue by now.


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## manaheim (Nov 22, 2012)

I have a shoe box with a hole punched in it.

It's ALMOST as old as this thread.


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## unpopular (Nov 22, 2012)

KenC said:


> unpopular said:
> 
> 
> > wouldn't a professional camera be one that is used by a professional?
> ...



Pretty sure Helen has said she owns a P&S or two.


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## gsgary (Nov 22, 2012)

I have a Mamiya C330 which says Professional on thr front


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## unpopular (Nov 22, 2012)

gsgary said:


> I have a Mamiya C330 which says Professional on thr front



It's also big and heavy. That helps, too.

---

I love how what was once professional, no longer is. Were professionals of the past less professional than they are today?


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