# The Difference Between a n00b hack and a Pro:



## LuckySo-n-So

scroll down...


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## KmH

The difference is the amount of planning and the amount of detail, compositional and technical, a pro considers and controls before each shutter release.


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## LuckySo-n-So

I posted almost identical photos (one taken by me and one taken by a Sports Illustrated pro) at the LSU/Alabama football game.  I forgot I couldn't link other people's photos.  Just kind of ruined the flow of the post.  I have tried to delete this thread, but don't know how.  Thought admins would help me out.  but oh well.


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## KmH

Ya, it's kind of hard to plan a shot when it's sports. :thumbup::blushing:


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## Eco

LuckySo-n-So said:


> I posted almost identical photos (one taken by me and one taken by a Sports Illustrated pro) at the LSU/Alabama football game.  I forgot I couldn't link other people's photos.  Just kind of ruined the flow of the post.  I have tried to delete this thread, but don't know how.  Thought admins would help me out.  but oh well.



Could you link to the site that the photo is on?  (so the picture does not show up in the thread)


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## LuckySo-n-So

OK, here goes again...(this thread just won't die). :lmao:
Sports Illustrated Photo:

http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimed.../leading.off.110909/images/opof-11933-mid.jpg

My Photo:






My Photo Cropped and Edited by someone else:


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## musicaleCA

Eco said:


> LuckySo-n-So said:
> 
> 
> 
> I posted almost identical photos (one taken by me and one taken by a Sports Illustrated pro) at the LSU/Alabama football game.  I forgot I couldn't link other people's photos.  Just kind of ruined the flow of the post.  I have tried to delete this thread, but don't know how.  Thought admins would help me out.  but oh well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could you link to the site that the photo is on?  (so the picture does not show up in the thread)
Click to expand...


Yes, you can always just link to the image. It's displaying the image in the post that's not so cool.



KmH said:


> Ya, it's kind of hard to plan a shot when it's sports. :thumbup::blushing:



You're telling me! Anyone who's run up and down a soccer field with a camera body or two and some heavy lenses will tell you so. I'm still a little sore from the last game I covered. :lmao: (That said, in the case of sports, the difference between an experienced professional and a beginner has a lot to do with knowing how to expose in such difficult conditions&#8212;say dark, poorly lit fields, and knowing where it's useless to shoot because of it&#8212;and *when* to shoot. I admit, there's a bit of spray and pray involved in my sports shooting, but that's more just shooting at high-speed and then picking the best frame of what I wanted to capture.)


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## usayit

The difference I see is the "decisive moment"...


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## battletone

The professional photo is in focus (or at least a lot clearer), is completely frozen (so a lot clearer), and since the subject is the most import part (right?)...there was a face-mask penalty captured.


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## LuckySo-n-So

> captured a face-mask penalty.


 
Which was nullified because of a procedure penalty on the offense(so the play was "void" and the facemask "never happened."  LSU would have had the ball at about the 6 yard line, but ended up punting.

:banghead::banghead::banghead:


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## benhasajeep

When I shot sports for the paper about twice a year we had a review where others would come in and critique our work.  Our photo editor would pick the best photo's from different subjects.  And other editors would review them and give suggestions.

I got a kick one day we had one of these reviews.  I just happened to be in the right place and the right time to take a picture of a player layed flat out diving into the end zone.  I was using my 300 f/2.8 but the player still only filled about 1/3 of the frame.  Well the shot was printed and my editor had that pic out as an example of one of the best.  Well the shot they printed was was the actual shot, no cropping.  The bad part was the top of the frame showed a bunch of empty seats / sparce fans.

The visiting editors immediately grabed my shot and asked who took it.  I said I did.  They immediately said great shot but your crop is horrable.  Should have been much tighter.  I replied that is a full frame and its not cropped.  They then said, why didn't you crop it.  I replied, I didn't print it.  They immediately turned to my photo editor and gave him the third degree for nearly ruining a great shot.  

Sometimes seeing others crop will give you ideas, but in this case the croping was out of my control.  We were never asked about crops.  Didn't know if you had a shot or two in the paper until after you saw it out the next day.


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## Garbz

usayit said:


> The difference I see is the "decisive moment"...



This is perfectly right, and the correct terminology too. Ultimately it doesn't matter if the penalty goes through or not. The photo you took is far less exciting because it just looks like someone running with a ball. The sports illustrated picture captures someone who looks like they are about to have their head ripped off.

Even if you captures 1/4 of a second later, the SI picture puts the viewer right in the middle of the scuffle. Where as your picture makes the viewer look on from the sidelines. It's all about involving the viewer in the moment. 

There's not much you can do about this from the grandstand. There's a reason all the pros line up on ground level with lenses that completely fill the frame with the subject.


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## usayit

Thanks Garbz... I was just too tired to write more details.. yesterday.

Sports photography is much like street photography... its all about capturing the decisive moment.  The one "story" telling moment in time.  It simply takes practice to the point that the photographer can almost see the future compose for it and wait for it to happen.  

One example I like to point out (I'm not a sports photographer) is from the talented Henri Cartier-Bresson:

Magnumphotos

"Sunday on the banks of the River Marne"  

I would have (not that I'm that old) walked by noticed the boat and people.  Then taken a rather boring shot of a bunch of people's backs sitting there on the banks.  Bleh! Henri walks by a few moments later and captures something as subtle as the man pouring wine.. the decisive moment.  The seasoned photographer, Henri, walks away with something special and I walk away with yet another frame.

Sports photography is especially heavily based on practice/experience.  I know I will get flak for this statement (I usually do with my friends.. except the one who likes shooting high school sports) but sports photography is actually easier to plan.  You have a set stage (football field).  For the most part, you have a single area where the moments occur (around the football itself).  You can predict actions with a firm understanding of the rules and positions of the players.  The most difficult part again.. is capturing the decisive moment.. using your intimate knowledge of the game paired with your intuition.  Watching a game is enjoying the events NOW at that moment.  Shooting a game is constantly thinking of what is going to happen NEXT.

My bet is that placing the professional in your position in the stands... with your equipment... would have still resulted in capture of the same "decisive moment".  Composition and quality might not have been the same BUT the moment is still captured.

Anyways... I still think you are off to a good start.  The way I see it, sports photography is an easy game to start playing BUT a very difficult game to master.  The makings for a wonderful exciting game to take on a lifetime.  For me, street is the same way hence why I am enjoying it... the moment I "master" it (doubt it will happen).. I will loose interest.


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## Overread

I find the very same thing is true not only of sports photography but also of wildlife and zoo photography as well. Understanding the subject - be it a game on a pitch or an animal in a pen or an animal in the wild - lets you predict their possible movements and actions. With that you can start to wait pick the precise moment to press the shutter - yes spray and pray is used by most as a valid method since it does help, but you still have to press that first shot off at the right moment to capture the action.

The bonus you get in sports is as USA says - you have a controled environment and your subjects are not going to move far out of it - as opposed to wildlife or even just street work where you don't have that luxury. 

Experience is they key and sadly you can't get that without lots of shooting and lots of failed shots - just remember never to delete in teh field and learn from them when you get back. Also learn the rules of the game - study it if your keen - a good understanding will give you a lot of scope for prediction. Heck if your shooting the same players over and over chances are you will end up getting used to their actions as well - you will know when there is a chance that someone might do something worth capturing


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## DennyCrane

That's all window dressing. The _real_ difference between a n00b hack and a pro photographer? It's simple. 

It's the vest.


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## usayit

You know what Denny?   I have a feeling you are the real life incarnation of the fictional one...  

<ehem.. mad cow excluded... I think... >


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## DennyCrane

Lock and load.


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## Pugs

Decisive moment, angle, depth of field, sharpness/focus are the differences that I see.


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## John Sampson

This is an excellent answer. Go with it. You also have an option. Either or!


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