# Noms noms!



## KAikens318 (Jan 7, 2011)

I got hired by a bakery yesterday to shoot for them and here is the product of our first shoot. I get to go back every time they roll out a new product   I know there are a lot of photos, but I love them all hehe

1.






2.





3.





4.





5.





6.





7.





8.





9.





10.





11.





12.





13.


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## KAikens318 (Jan 7, 2011)

30 views and no critiques yet? Lol uh oh!!  

I have gone back and edited a few of these further, fixed the white balance and such, will update when I get home from work tonight.

Got a call from the client I shot these for and he is actually hanging number 1, 2, 5, 8, 9, and 13 on the walls throughout the bakery


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## GeorgieGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

These came out very nice! I am very excited for you. 

Question: Can you find a creative cloth or pattern to place some of these items on to break up the monotony? 

For example, if they were all on the same page, the one that I feel is a postive diversion is #12. Manly because it fills the frame and provides an alternate perspective.

If you found a patterned cloth to set some of the items on I would feel that there was some enhancement and blocking to the portolio.

Your shots are dead on crisp and clear, I love them!


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## Light Artisan (Jan 7, 2011)

I just gained 3 pounds... THANKS A LOT!


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## PerfectlyFlawed (Jan 7, 2011)

Yummy! those look delicious... in both aspects.. great job!


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## KAikens318 (Jan 7, 2011)

GeorgieGirl said:


> These came out very nice! I am very excited for you.
> 
> Question: Can you find a creative cloth or pattern to place some of these items on to break up the monotony?
> 
> ...


 
I wanted to use some different backdrops that I had brought, I had a black one that would have looked awesome with some of them, but the owner of the shop has a pink/brown theme throughout the bakery (will post shots of that later) and wanted to keep the pink background to keep with the theme. I would have preferred to break the monotony too. Lol. They were nice, sent me home with a big box full of the chocolate raspberry brownie cakes depicted in number 3. Oh yum yums

Thanks all!  

Sorry I made you gain some weight Light Artisan!! :hug::


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## GeorgieGirl (Jan 8, 2011)

KAikens318 said:


> GeorgieGirl said:
> 
> 
> > These came out very nice! I am very excited for you.
> ...



I understand then. Again, great job!


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## gsgary (Jan 8, 2011)

You did ok :thumbup:, for me you need more light and more diffusion and better focus


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## KAikens318 (Jan 8, 2011)

gsgary said:


> You did ok :thumbup:, for me you need more light and more diffusion and better focus




Focus?? Really?  Food photography is usually shot with a small DOF...

I think the focus looks fine personally


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## John Mc (Jan 8, 2011)

Awwww, Please say you got paid in cakes and Buscuits? i might have to come steal your job if you do!


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## manaheim (Jan 8, 2011)

I've never shot food in my life, so take this as a reaction from an experienced photographer with little experience in this space.

First off, the shots seem well exposed and relatively sharp, which is great.

To me, I wonder at the DOF being SO shallow... shallow seems good, but it also seems like you didn't need to go so far as having some of the food out of focus (or at least not THAT out of focus).  If you had more distractions in the background, I'd say yes, but you seem to have none.

I also wonder a bit at the dead space.  Some seems appropriate, but you seem to have more than I would expect in a lot of the shots.

I also wonder a bit about presentation... while these look technically good, I often see food "setup" with other things to make it seem more appealing or inviting- though maybe that was choice by your customer.

Just some comments- again take 'em with a grain of salt, but I hope they are helpful.


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## KAikens318 (Jan 8, 2011)

John Mc said:


> Awwww, Please say you got paid in cakes and Buscuits? i might have to come steal your job if you do!




Lol, nah, I don't eat the stuff   I like money haha


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## John Mc (Jan 8, 2011)

I'd ask for both


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## Opher (Jan 8, 2011)

All in all i like them all...  Focus looks good but i would go for just a tad bit more DOF.  Not a lot but a little more would be nice.  :coffee:


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## altitude604 (Jan 8, 2011)

Looks good! I too think that just a teeeeeeeny bit more DOF on a couple of them would be better though.

That cupcake with the Andes mint on it though... DO WANT!


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## KAikens318 (Jan 8, 2011)

altitude604 said:


> Looks good! I too think that just a teeeeeeeny bit more DOF on a couple of them would be better though.
> 
> That cupcake with the Andes mint on it though... DO WANT!



Lol yeah that was one of the few that I wouldn't have minded taking home. I did get a box of Chocolate raspberry brownies, but I gave them to the hubby because all of that stuff is just too sweet for me. Going back there in a few minutes to drop off the CD to him...may buy some yummy cookies while I am there    Or one of those monster Rice Krispie treats...I love love love those


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## FranDaMan (Jan 8, 2011)

I would buy this guy out !!!

You did an excellent job. Indeed next time, try a bit more light and see how that works.
I see a lot of food fotography where the light is very bright.


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## KAikens318 (Jan 8, 2011)

I guess I have found my photography 'niche'. Lol. Usually when I post photos on the forum they do not get the best of reviews. Haha. Food is great, it doesn't move, doesn't blink, doesn't talk, does what you tell it to, and you can photograph it for as long as you need without it getting tired and irritable


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## FranDaMan (Jan 8, 2011)

I have troubles keeping my hands of the food !


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## gsgary (Jan 8, 2011)

KAikens318 said:


> [quote, gsgary;2125822]You did ok :thumbup:, for me you need more light and more diffusion and better focus



Focus?? Really?  Food photography is usually shot with a small DOF...

I think the focus looks fine personally[/QUOTE]

The last 2 shots look very soft to me, F1.8 is too much being that close, they do use shallow DOF but the whole of the cake in a line of 3 should be in focus


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## KAikens318 (Jan 8, 2011)

FranDaMan said:


> I have troubles keeping my hands of the food !



Lol well then my job is done isn't it?


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## KAikens318 (Jan 8, 2011)

Dropped of the CDs to him and was greeted with a box of number 7, number 10, and a cupcake that had a Lindt truffle baked into the middle of it with another truffle on top. So much for the diet. And I get to go back in a month to do more! Lol


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## epatsellis (Jan 8, 2011)

I'd suggest practicing on using some rim lighting as your key light, with a fill card in the front. It's a technique that adds lots of texture to food.


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## KAikens318 (Jan 9, 2011)

Here are a few more for your tastebud's enjoyment  



























And here is the shop, as you can see, a lot of pink!


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## Mecal (Jan 9, 2011)

I definitely agree that you should increase your DoF.

Otherwise, well done


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## kasperjd4 (Jan 10, 2011)

Yum!!! Those look sooo  good!!! Great job!


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## KAikens318 (Jan 11, 2011)

Feeling very validated right now...just got an email from the shop owner...

"Excellent Job!!!

You will be my photographer until I sell the business  or go out business..."

Yay! :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen::thumbup:


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## Christie Photo (Jan 13, 2011)

I can't remember if I rained on anyone's parade here... ever, but I have to tell you this work is not up to par.

The lack of any lighting scheme is killing all of these.  As epatsellis eluded to, there's no punch, modeling, texture...   it's just not there.

The second bunch is much better with the closer cropping.  And, yes...  the DoF is a bit shallow on some.  But man, the lack of lighting is a real problem.

Your composition is OK.  There is a lack of attention to detail, which is very important when working in this close...  stray crumbs, smeared icing...

I understand you got a lot done in little time, and sometimes that's all the job allows.  But please don't believe that this is good photography.

Truly, my intent is not to hurt.  It had to said.  I'd want to know if I were in your shoes.

-Pete


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## KAikens318 (Jan 13, 2011)

Christie Photo said:


> I can't remember if I rained on anyone's parade here... ever, but I have to tell you this work is not up to par.
> 
> The lack of any lighting scheme is killing all of these. As epatsellis eluded to, there's no punch, modeling, texture... it's just not there.
> 
> ...


 
That is your opinion and you are more than entitled to it....

HOWEVER....the shop owner thinks that is not just good photography, it's great photography and I now have a contract with him for the entire time he is in business. We all come from different necks of the woods, and I guess where you are, things have to be shot with big fancy equipment that we out here in the sticks can't afford. I recently purchased a macro ring flash, macro extension tubes, and a second off camera flash with wireless set up just for this client. All discounted equipment, so I am sure it still won't be up to par for some, but I got paid for a job that I thought and that the shop owner thought was well done.

I don't mind the constructive criticism at all about the stray crumbs and such, that is stuff I can use for the next shoot. However I do take offense when you say this is not good photography. That's just how I feel. This is something I was really proud of, and then to be told that it is not good (albeit you are the ONLY one who has said so), kind of crushes the spirit whether it is meant to or not. That comment could have been left out, it was not constructive in the least.

Edit: Now that I have checked out some of your responses to others in this forum, I don't feel so bad anymore. You are this high and mighty with everyone.

Thanks to everyone else as well about the comments about DOF. I am going to work on that on next month's shoot and try to get a little more in focus.


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## Christie Photo (Jan 13, 2011)

KAikens318 said:


> That is your opinion and you are more than entitled to it....
> 
> HOWEVER....the shop owner thinks that is not just good photography, it's great photography...



And he/she is not a photographer.



KAikens318 said:


> We all come from different necks of the woods, and I guess where you are, things have to be shot with big fancy equipment that we out here in the sticks can't afford.



I bet if you look around your town, you'll see folks driving a Lexus...  Mercedes...  People in "the sticks" can afford stuff as much as anyone else.



KAikens318 said:


> I recently purchased a macro ring flash, macro extension tubes, and a second off camera flash with wireless set up just for this client. All discounted equipment, so I am sure it still won't be up to par for some...



It's not about the equipment.  It's about how it's being used.



KAikens318 said:


> This is something I was really proud of, and then to be told that it is not good (albeit you are the ONLY one who has said so)



Which is what compelled me to say it.  



KAikens318 said:


> kind of crushes the spirit whether it is meant to or not.



And I regret that.  I knew it would be hard to hear, but cared enough to say it.



KAikens318 said:


> Edit: Now that I have checked out some of your responses to others in this forum, I don't feel so bad anymore. You are this high and mighty with everyone.



Please cite any example of this... especially where you feel I was incorrect.

Look...  I'm not saying I have all the answers, or my work is the pinnacle, or you're not capable of doing great work.  This just isn't it.

Sorry.

-Pete


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## gsgary (Jan 14, 2011)

KAikens318 said:


> Christie Photo said:
> 
> 
> > I can't remember if I rained on anyone's parade here... ever, but I have to tell you this work is not up to par.
> ...



I was going to say the same as Christie but bit my lip, no point getting upset, get even and make the next shoot better


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## KAikens318 (Jan 14, 2011)

It's hard not to get upset sometimes. I work so hard to try and get this stuff down, and every time I think I have done really well, I post in here, and get S&$t on every single time. I don't have the time or money to go to school for photography, or ever take a single class. I can't afford nice equipment. I make do with the used equipment I have and try as hard as I can to get tips from the people that help in here, or to watch as many Youtube tutorials and read as many books as I can, but it starts to bring me down and sometimes make me think that I shouldn't be doing this because I am no good. Don't get me wrong, the constructive stuff, I listen to, I take it back with me, and I try to use it to my advantage. Being told you are no good flat out, hurtful. Especially when this is what I want to do with my life, and actually, I am making a pretty good living with it right now, so people must be happy with what I do. I have been booked for a ton of weddings this season, a newborn shoot, maternity shoot, I have the contract with the cupcake guy, and even do some freelance stuff for the local news. But maybe it's just because I live in a small town, not a big city, so expectations aren't as high around here. I don't know. I just get frustrated when I am so proud of the stuff I have done and then it just gets slammed by people in here. Happens everytime. Perhaps I will just be an observer for a while and build some confidence back up before I get slammed for my work again.


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## gsgary (Jan 14, 2011)

KAikens318 said:


> It's hard not to get upset sometimes. I work so hard to try and get this stuff down, and every time I think I have done really well, I post in here, and get S&$t on every single time. I don't have the time or money to go to school for photography, or ever take a single class. I can't afford nice equipment. I make do with the used equipment I have and try as hard as I can to get tips from the people that help in here, or to watch as many Youtube tutorials and read as many books as I can, but it starts to bring me down and sometimes make me think that I shouldn't be doing this because I am no good. Don't get me wrong, the constructive stuff, I listen to, I take it back with me, and I try to use it to my advantage. Being told you are no good flat out, hurtful. Especially when this is what I want to do with my life, and actually, I am making a pretty good living with it right now, so people must be happy with what I do. I have been booked for a ton of weddings this season, a newborn shoot, maternity shoot, I have the contract with the cupcake guy, and even do some freelance stuff for the local news. But maybe it's just because I live in a small town, not a big city, so expectations aren't as high around here. I don't know. I just get frustrated when I am so proud of the stuff I have done and then it just gets slammed by people in here. Happens everytime. Perhaps I will just be an observer for a while and build some confidence back up before I get slammed for my work again.




All my stuff used to be secondhand and i used to get knocked but the more i got knocked the better i got


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## wuint (Jan 16, 2011)

When it comes right down to it the only thing that matters is the client. If your clients are happy you'll get the jobs and make a living at this. *Everyone* has room to grow and learn, even the people critiquing you it's how we all get better. Just keep your head up and try and improve from the critique and don't get discouraged.


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## Dominantly (Jan 16, 2011)

Didn't read any of the other comments.

My first impression was that the images were shot with too thin of a DOF. The next is the lighting seems to be kind of plain.

For the DOF... With the first image, the very front of the cupcake is OOF, then you taper into the sharp area, and then quickly taper and fade away again before the rear edge of the cake. This just gives you a thin, acceptable area of focus. Not very appealing.

I did the very same thing my first go with a gourmet chocolate company, shooting their truffles.


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## KAikens318 (Jan 16, 2011)

Dominantly said:


> Didn't read any of the other comments.
> 
> My first impression was that the images were shot with too thin of a DOF. The next is the lighting seems to be kind of plain.
> 
> ...



I bought a macro flash ring and also a wireless flash trigger so that I can have some different lighting next time, I am going to bring my reflector with me as well. Now that I know a little more about the setting and the lighting in the room I am shooting in, I will have a little better of an idea as to what I need for the shoot.


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## Christie Photo (Jan 17, 2011)

KAikens318 said:


> ...every time I think I have done really well, I post in here, and get S&$t on every single time.





KAikens318 said:


> I don't have the time or money to go to school for photography, or ever take a single class.



You say it continues to happen and then in the next breath you say you're doing little to rectify your approach.  I truly understand time and money restraints, but it does take time to build your skills.  For most of us, it doesn't happen in weeks or months.



KAikens318 said:


> I can't afford nice equipment. I make do with the used equipment I have...



Good.  That's the smart way to do it...  gradually.  And, used equipment is often nice...  in good working order.  I too buy used whenever the situation allows.  And don't put too much into the importance of equipment.  Yes... it's nice.  And often a job is easier with good tools.  Focus more on the task.  Then work on what you need to execute your plan.



KAikens318 said:


> ...sometimes make me think that I shouldn't be doing this because I am no good.



I don't think anyone here has said YOU are no good.  What I'm saying is you have a way to go with this type of photography.  Food photography is a tough nut.  It's quite different from portraiture or wedding candids.  I do a fair amount of product work, but I would be nervous taking on any amount of food photography.  If you find yourself wondering if you should be doing it, it's likely you don't feel enough in control.



KAikens318 said:


> Being told you are no good flat out, hurtful. Especially when this is what I want to do with my life...



Again, this is just one job in a very difficult field.  Hearing you want to make a career of photography makes this discussion all the more important...  at least for me.  You're finding out that developing your skills is not an immediate thing.  It doesn't happen all at once.  You can't expect to hit a home run every try, but you will be expected to get on base...  every time at bat.  I wrestled with telling you my thoughts, but decided to speak up when I saw the others telling you this was a home run.  My remarks were directed at them as much as the photography.



KAikens318 said:


> ...actually, I am making a pretty good living with it right now, so people must be happy with what I do.



Good.  It sounds like you're right where you need to be right now.



KAikens318 said:


> Perhaps I will just be an observer for a while and build some confidence back up before I get slammed for my work again.



Taking a breather is fine, but build up your knowledge and experience.  Confidence will follow.  If your work (not you) gets "slammed" again, it simply means there's more to learn.

When I think of all the mediocre work that I've done (and continue to do), I wonder if I have the right to say any of this.  I like to think I do.  I merely wanted to share some real-world experience, putting things back into proper perspective.


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## Christie Photo (Jan 17, 2011)

wuint said:


> When it comes right down to it the only thing that matters is the client.



No.  No it isn't.  Not for professionals.  Not for those of us who care about our craft.  And not for those of us who strive to grow.

The clients pay our bills.  That is important, but it's not the only thing that matters.

-Pete


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## Fujito (Jan 17, 2011)

KAikens318 said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> > You did ok :thumbup:, for me you need more light and more diffusion and better focus
> ...


Not always. That is a very small DOF in some of the pics.


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## epatsellis (Jan 18, 2011)

Christie Photo said:


> wuint said:
> 
> 
> > When it comes right down to it the only thing that matters is the client.
> ...


I'll amplify this a little....

As a working commercial shooter and graphic artist for probably as long as Pete has been, I have seen the same lowering of standards in the field. When I first started shooting in the mid 80's, it was a huge investment to shoot commercially, typically around $100K to set up a decent working product studio. You had to know your stuff, as you wouldn't see the final product until the chromes came back from the lab and unless you had several bays, you may have stricken the set by then. 

We always worked with Art Directors for the client, who often had at least bachelor's degrees in art and understood the finer points of composition, color theory and had a good idea how to create compelling, dynamic images. We had blue lines to shoot to, and the page/ad/poster design was created from the ground up, based on sound design principles and effective typography, designed to be visually appealing and communicate and idea/concept. The photography was expected to be of the same high quality, photography wasn't just seen as a means to an end, but as a product itself, and the shooters who understood that prospered. 

Fast forward 25 years, and we no longer have agencies like we once did, AD's are for the most part, gone. And instead of talented, experienced graphic artists we have everybody and their brother with an interest in it designing everything under the sun as if it's a school project. 99% of these people have never worked with quality imagery, nor care (or even know, much less understand) about the finer points of composition, color theory, typography and such. To them, their pirated copy of Creative Suite saves them from paying a real designer and they typically flounder around with a design until it looks acceptable to them. Even worse, as a designer I have clients who insist on taking designs that work and making the stupidest changes imaginable, changing an effective piece to trash. The art of graphic design is slowly eroding to a "good enough" mentality, where anything above mediocrity is seen as great. 

Shooting imagery that excels takes time and experience. Attention to details is paramount. I've had food stylists (yes they actually do exist) actually place sesame seeds on unseeded buns "creatively" until the right composition is found. Ever see a food shoot? Imagine slicing 10 tomatoes until you find just the right slice. How about de leafing a dozen heads of lettuce until you find the right leaf? 
Ever see pictures of vegetables with perfect little water droplets on them? Typically, they're applied, one by one, with a toothpick or bamboo skewer (and they're not even water, they're glycerine). That gorgeous roast turkey you see? Barely cooked, usually with a portable propane torch, then the coloring painted on (GravyMaster makes a great browning agent). The perfect hamburger you see in ads? Mostly raw, browned with a torch and grill marks added with a soldering iron. These are but a few examples to illustrate the attention to detail you need to aspire to if you want to ascend from good to great.

Pete mentioned lighting, partly in response to my initial comment. There are many good resources available on food photography, check out your local library to start. I'm sure Manchester has a community college, you may want to see what classes the offer, one class at a time isn't too expensive and you will gain an insight into many of the concepts and ideas you will see Pete and I mention over and over again. Investigate your options, you may be surprised. 

Personally, I'm a big fan of more dynamic lighting for food, the use of a grazing light in you chocolate chip cookies, for example, will transform the image into something that shows texture better and has some decent shadow with a slightly harder edge to them. Compositionally, you need to become more dynamic, using diagonal lines and angles to imply dynamicism would help a lot. There's nothing wrong with the use of gestaltic completion to help engage the viewer (for example, seeing most of a cookie in a frame, the mind "knows" it's a complete cookie, that simple act of making the mind think causes the viewer to interact with the image) Effective use of DOF is intended to draw your eye to the product, insufficient depth of field makes food look unappealing and "wrong" subconsciously. 

Don't take these criticisms personally, food photography is one of the hardest fields to get right, there's so many secrets and little known tricks that anybody's first tries will not be up to snuff, whether you're shooting with speedlights or a studio full of gear.


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## Natred (Feb 8, 2011)

I think you did a really great job!! I did my first food shots this week and posted a thread about them. I was surprised to hear that you shot them with a ring flash. I've never used one of those...maybe I should get one!!  I'd love to do some fun dessert shots, I may have to post on my facebook to see if anyone needs any.


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## wlbphoto (Feb 8, 2011)

thanks for making me want sweets now =/


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## gsgary (Feb 9, 2011)

Ditch the ring flash it will give you very flat boring lighting for this sort of thing, dedicated food photographers can take hours just setting up lighting for just one shot


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## Canon AE-1 (Feb 9, 2011)

manaheim said:


> I've never shot food in my life, so take this as a reaction from an experienced photographer with little experience in this space.
> 
> First off, the shots seem well exposed and relatively sharp, which is great.
> 
> ...



You beat me to it, i concur.


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## rub (Feb 10, 2011)

I know it can feel like people are coming down on you, but PLEASE read the critiques as a way to raise yourself up.  The industry is full of substandard work (and sadly, I myself am often in that category) but I post here not for a pat on the back and a job well done, but a chance to hear from PROFESSIONALS on how I can continue to grow and advance so that my work will be noticable and respected in the digital photography world.

Having a happy client is part of the battle.  Being from the sticks is no excuse for a good enough attitude.  I find that unless you majorly screw the pooch, your clients will love the images you present.  I see photographers present clients with underexposed, underlit, soft images all the time. And the clients praise them for being amazing artists.  If someone would just tell them, hey, that photo is underexposed, the composition is poor, etc, they could make their work so much more appealing.

Unfortunatly people are always worried about offending, that it just reinforces the negative habits many new photographers have (again, for me included.)

Try see this as a huge learning opportunity.  Next round of images for this client will be better, and as your skills advance, so will your bank account.

K


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## John Lee (Mar 22, 2011)

Nice shot! I am a new guy here and I work for a food company. My job is also a photographer as you are. Could you please tell me how you arrange your background, light and hero foods please? Thanks!


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## EckoZero (Mar 22, 2011)

Mmmm... I could go for some cookies and cakes now.

There's a lot to look at there so I can't offer any individual comments on these but overall I really like them. Well done!


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## 12sndsgood (Mar 22, 2011)

good thing is the owner gave you all those treats that you can take home and practice with to get an even better shot.


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## mickmac (Mar 23, 2011)

I think they look quite nice. I do tend to agree that a little more depth of field would be nice. Also, some back lighting can make for a nice effect and help to bring out the top edge of the product. A window would do the job. I would also suggest getting some different colored strips of foil to reflect into the front of the product. Gold foil can give a really nice reflection on cakes.


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## reedshots (Mar 23, 2011)

made me hungry


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