# Home developing first results



## Fred Berg (Jan 16, 2015)

.........


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## 480sparky (Jan 16, 2015)

Fun, wasn't it?


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## Fred Berg (Jan 16, 2015)

480sparky said:


> Fun, wasn't it?



Certainly was, and not that difficult either. The hardest thing was getting the film on the spool in complete darkness. Can this be done with a red safety lamp on?


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## tirediron (Jan 16, 2015)

NO!  Film has to be loaded in COMPLETE darkness.  Why no stop bath?


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## Gary A. (Jan 16, 2015)

I never saw a development difference between using a prewash or not prewashing. I think you need to wash the film better than three tanks fulls. Something like three to five minutes in running water (the tank under the faucet). Careful with the agitation.


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## 480sparky (Jan 16, 2015)

Fred Berg said:


> Certainly was, and not that difficult either. The hardest thing was getting the film on the spool in complete darkness. Can this be done with a red safety lamp on?



Only if the film is not sensitive to red light.  And if it were that way, you'd end up with very funny looking images.


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## Fred Berg (Jan 16, 2015)

tirediron said:


> NO!  Film has to be loaded in COMPLETE darkness.  Why no stop bath?



OK, thanks for the important info regarding the light. There was no stop bath in the starter kit I bought, and the book I followed also didn't use it. Should I get this for next time I develop?



Gary A. said:


> I never saw a development difference between using a prewash or not prewashing. I think you need to wash the film better than three tanks fulls. Something like three to five minutes in running water (the tank under the faucet). Careful with the agitation.



OK, thanks. I did the pre-wash because the book I was following recommended it. Why the warning about agitation? Should I leave that part out?


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## Fred Berg (Jan 16, 2015)

480sparky said:


> Fred Berg said:
> 
> 
> > Certainly was, and not that difficult either. The hardest thing was getting the film on the spool in complete darkness. Can this be done with a red safety lamp on?
> ...



OK, thanks sparky. 

I haven't gone so far as setting up a darkroom yet, but I will be: DIY is a real kick!


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## 480sparky (Jan 16, 2015)

You don't need a darkroom to develop the film.  It's nice, but a dark bag will do as well.


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## tirediron (Jan 16, 2015)

Fred Berg said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> > NO!  Film has to be loaded in COMPLETE darkness.  Why no stop bath?
> ...


 Regular household vinegar will work in a pinch; a lot better than just plain water, that's for sure.  I never bothered with a pre-wash either, but I know people who swore by it...  I definitely agree with Gary on the washing though (Missed that on my first read).  I would consider 5 minutes an absolute minimum in running water.  Are you using a Patterson tank, or one of the stainless-steel styles?


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## Fred Berg (Jan 16, 2015)

tirediron said:


> Fred Berg said:
> 
> 
> > tirediron said:
> ...



I'll order a stop bath for next time.  But If I used vinegar, what sort of amount is needed?

I have a Paterson daylight tank.

I'll wash as advised next time. Should the water be lukewarm or is cold OK? Can it be seen on my results that the washing wasn't adequate?


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## tirediron (Jan 16, 2015)

Fred Berg said:


> I'll order a stop bath for next time.  But If I used vinegar, what sort of amount is needed?  The couple of times I used it, I just poured it right out of the gallon container from the kitchen full strength.
> 
> I have a Paterson daylight tank.  For washing, crack the lid and just run the water down the center "funnel"; 1-2 times a minute, invert it and pour all the water out.
> 
> I'll wash as advised next time. Should the water be lukewarm or is cold OK? Can it be seen on my results that the washing wasn't adequate?  I always had all my fluids at the same temperature unless the manufacturer recommdended differently. The most apparent evidence of inadequate washing is the appearance of white/yellowish patches of powder on the negative, which is dried fixer.


 Bear in mind... it's been a long time since I've been in a wet darkroom; things may have changed.  Someone like Limr or gsgary can probably give you more up-to-date advice.


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## 480sparky (Jan 16, 2015)

Fred Berg said:


> I'll wash as advised next time. Should the water be lukewarm or is cold OK? Can it be seen on my results that the washing wasn't adequate?



I prefer the same temperature for wash as what the rest of the liquids were prior to it.  In my case, 68°F.


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## Gary A. (Jan 16, 2015)

Over agitation = grain. I found that I had good negative with minimal agitation ... but start with the book then over time reduce the agitation slightly until you have the results you seek.


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## Light Guru (Jan 16, 2015)

480sparky said:


> Only if the film is not sensitive to red light.  And if it were that way, you'd end up with very funny looking images.



It acutely would not look all that funny. The early forms of photography used orthochromatic emulsions aka not sensitive to red light.  There are actually a surprising number of large format photographers that use x-ray film to take pictures even though it is a orthochromatic film.  X-ray film is dirt cheep and you can develop it under red light conditions.


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## vintagesnaps (Jan 16, 2015)

Those are really nice photos.

I've read that people use vinegar (for darkroom work and for house cleaning) but to me, that would smell worse than the chemistry - seriously! A little goes a long way for me, I'd just get some stop.

You could practice loading film on the reel, I've used a roll that didn't turn out, sit and practice while you're watching TV or something.

From what I've seen and read, xray film can scratch really easily, maybe if you try something new do that once you feel like you've got this process down.

You got beautiful results.


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## Light Guru (Jan 16, 2015)

vintagesnaps said:


> From what I've seen and read, xray film can scratch really easily, maybe if you try something new do that once you feel like you've got this process down.



Yes it will scratch easily, but you must understand it is NOT a roll film. It comes in sheets and you shoot it in sheets using a large format camera.  You then develop it in trays or in a did and dunk system.  Its not a type of film that you would me handling heavily and rolling onto reels.


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## limr (Jan 16, 2015)

The only things I have to add:

1. I don't use a stop bath either, but I also use Caffenol and as far as I know or have read, water is just fine as a stop bath for that developer.

2. The 5/10/20 washing scheme is Ilfords recommended washing method and I've used that with no issues. Well, actually, I do 5/10/15/20 because I'm kind of OCD that way  

Oh, and also, welcome to the home developing club! Your welcome packet and member button will be in the mail and should arrive shortly! 

Seriously, it felt pretty magical to see those images on the film, right??


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## 480sparky (Jan 16, 2015)

Light Guru said:


> 480sparky said:
> 
> 
> > Only if the film is not sensitive to red light.  And if it were that way, you'd end up with very funny looking images.
> ...



If it's not sensitive to red wavelengths, then anything red in the scene would be rendered black.  Same effect as shooting with a blue filter.


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## gsgary (Jan 16, 2015)

No need for pre wash, I agitate for first 30 seconds and then 4 inversions every minute


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## gsgary (Jan 16, 2015)

Fred Berg said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> > Fred Berg said:
> ...


You will only know in 20 years or so if your washing was insufficient, I use a force washer for 5-10 minutes


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## Fred Berg (Jan 16, 2015)

480sparky said:


> You don't need a darkroom to develop the film.  It's nice, but a dark bag will do as well.



Yes, a bag will be ordered when I need to replenish the chemicals. I'd like to try wet printing, though, and the store do nice starter packs with an enlarger, lens, trays, etc,. I think I'm hooked!



tirediron said:


> Fred Berg said:
> 
> 
> > I'll order a stop bath for next time.  But If I used vinegar, what sort of amount is needed?  The couple of times I used it, I just poured it right out of the gallon container from the kitchen full strength.
> ...



Thanks for the info.



480sparky said:


> Fred Berg said:
> 
> 
> > I'll wash as advised next time. Should the water be lukewarm or is cold OK? Can it be seen on my results that the washing wasn't adequate?
> ...



I'll do the same, then. Thanks.



Gary A. said:


> Over agitation = grain. I found that I had good negative with minimal agitation ... but start with the book then over time reduce the agitation slightly until you have the results you seek.



Good to know. I have a note book to keep track of things a bit, so that I can try to get consistent results; I'll also note how much agitation I used and compare results.



Light Guru said:


> 480sparky said:
> 
> 
> > Only if the film is not sensitive to red light.  And if it were that way, you'd end up with very funny looking images.
> ...



Thanks for the info on X-ray film.



vintagesnaps said:


> Those are really nice photos.
> 
> I've read that people use vinegar (for darkroom work and for house cleaning) but to me, that would smell worse than the chemistry - seriously! A little goes a long way for me, I'd just get some stop.
> 
> ...



Thank you very much. Yes, I really must practise at loading the reel! I tried it a few times over the last few days  with old films and was able to do it with my eyes closed, but it was a different story with a live run!



Light Guru said:


> vintagesnaps said:
> 
> 
> > From what I've seen and read, xray film can scratch really easily, maybe if you try something new do that once you feel like you've got this process down.
> ...



Maybe something for the future, then. For now, I'm strictly 35mm.



limr said:


> The only things I have to add:
> 
> 1. I don't use a stop bath either, but I also use Caffenol and as far as I know or have read, water is just fine as a stop bath for that developer.
> 
> ...



If I do it this way again, I'll add the extra 15 inversions  

I look forward to getting my badge; actually I thought about having a T-shirt made that says, _Late Developer. _Yes, It felt very good seeing the images, although when i took the reel out of the tank all I could see was dark, clear film and I thought I'd botched it. But when I rolled it out, those babies were there!



gsgary said:


> No need for pre wash, I agitate for first 30 seconds and then 4 inversions every minute


Thanks, Gary. I'll try it this way, too.


  [/QUOTE]
You will only know in 20 years or so if your washing was insufficient, I use a force washer for 5-10 minutes[/QUOTE]

That's what I feared but by then I'll be too far gone to care. Info on washing very useful.


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## dxqcanada (Jan 16, 2015)

The Adonal/Rodinal data sheet says to agitate continously for first minute then tilt once every 30s.

I've always done that when I use Rodinal.


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## SoulfulRecover (Jan 16, 2015)

this thread is killing me! I may have to set up a dark room now haha


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## limr (Jan 16, 2015)

SoulfulRecover said:


> this thread is killing me! I may have to set up a dark room now haha



Yes, you do!


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## limr (Jan 16, 2015)

Fred Berg said:


> If I do it this way again, I'll add the extra 15 inversions
> 
> I look forward to getting my badge; actually I thought about having a T-shirt made that says, _Late Developer. _Yes, It felt very good seeing the images, although when i took the reel out of the tank all I could see was dark, clear film and I thought I'd botched it. But when I rolled it out, those babies were there!



That's a good idea for a t-shirt. In the meantime, perhaps this one will do 
"Sunny 16 Rule - White" T-Shirts & Hoodies by Alessandro Arcidiacono | Redbubble


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## KenC (Jan 16, 2015)

I never used stop bath for film.  It would have two functions: (1) stop development, and (2) remove most of the developer so it doesn't react with the fixer.  A simple water wash dilutes the residual developer so much it accomplishes both goals as well as a dilute acid.

Printing, imo, is different because the developing times are shorter, so I wanted to shut down development immediately.  I used vinegar, diluted by an amount I don't remember, until someone gave me some bottles of stop bath from a camera store that was going out of business, so then I used that.  You would want to use the colorless vinegar.


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## Fred Berg (Jan 16, 2015)

dxqcanada said:


> The Adonal/Rodinal data sheet says to agitate continously for first minute then tilt once every 30s.
> 
> I've always done that when I use Rodinal.



Thanks for the info, I'll look that up.



SoulfulRecover said:


> this thread is killing me! I may have to set up a dark room now haha



Doing the developing for myself was very satisfying. I will definitely be investing in an enlarger as my next step.



limr said:


> Fred Berg said:
> 
> 
> > If I do it this way again, I'll add the extra 15 inversions
> ...



Looks good...only I'm in Central Europe so no need to go more than f8 most of the time!



KenC said:


> I never used stop bath for film.  It would have two functions: (1) stop development, and (2) remove most of the developer so it doesn't react with the fixer.  A simple water wash dilutes the residual developer so much it accomplishes both goals as well as a dilute acid.
> 
> Printing, imo, is different because the developing times are shorter, so I wanted to shut down development immediately.  I used vinegar, diluted by an amount I don't remember, until someone gave me some bottles of stop bath from a camera store that was going out of business, so then I used that.  You would want to use the colorless vinegar.



Thanks for the info, Ken. I'll look into how much vinegar to mix since it's been mentioned a couple of times now.


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## SoulfulRecover (Jan 16, 2015)

Im pretty sure my wife would kill me if I turned our bathroom into a dark room. Well, mostly having an enlarger in there. Plus she would complain about me putting everything away when I am done. She complains about a sheet of glass I use to recover my instant film negatives that's probably 12"x10" hahahahaha


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## compur (Jan 16, 2015)

Good job of developing your film and nice photos!

Ahhhh!  To stop bath or not to stop bath, that is the question ...

Here are some excerpts from _The Darkroom Cookbook_, Third Edition (2008) by Steve Anchell which you might like. These excerpts concern reasons for not using an acid stop bath. On the other hand Steve also gives advice in the book on how to use acid stop baths if you still prefer to use them and gives some  recommendations and/or formulas for some.

*******************************************************************************************************************
_Whether or not to use an acid stop bath or a plain running-water bath has been a longstanding controversy among photographers. There are two reasons cited for using an acid stop bath. First, it arrests development in the shortest possible time. The second is, “That’s the way I was taught.”

Even so, the disadvantages to using acid stop bath are:

● When sodium carbonate, one of the most commonly used alkali in film developers, comes into contact with acid, carbon dioxide gas is released which can cause blistering in the emulsion of both film and paper. The  problem is more critical in film where it is appears as a pinhole, usually in dense areas of silver deposits such as the sky. …

● The fumes which emanate from acetic acid stop baths are perhaps the single greatest health hazard in the darkroom. Over time, these fumes can cause damage to the delicate membrane of the sinuses, resulting in respiratory problems. …

While a running water bath will not stop development as rapidly as an acid stop bath, it will slow it down to the point that the amount of residual development is insignificant.
*******************************************************************************************************************_


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## christopher walrath (Jan 16, 2015)

Fred Berg said:


> These are from a roll of APX 400 that I developed this morning.
> 
> Adonal 1+25 ,11.5 min, 20°
> 
> ...



I would say you have a sound routine.  Just make sure you can repeat it precisely and you get consistent results and can easily identify the cause of any problems that might arise.  I read you were having trouble loading film onto the tank spools.  I loaded a roll myself this evening.  And still had trouble, always will with 135 roll film.  But I muddled through.  The key is repetition. Repetition is the key to insanity.  Repetition is the key to insanity.  Repetition is the key to insanity.  Repetition is the key to insanity.  Repetition is the key to insanity.  Repetition is the key to insanity.  Repetition is the key to insanity.  

The prints (neg scans) look good.  And I bet it felt great to see such a beautiful thing, your own creation.


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## christopher walrath (Jan 16, 2015)

Gary A. said:


> I never saw a development difference between using a prewash or not prewashing. I think you need to wash the film better than three tanks fulls. Something like three to five minutes in running water (the tank under the faucet). Careful with the agitation.



That's the Ilford 5-10-20 method and, believe it or not, it works great.  I thought as you did and was skeptical at first but it sure saves a lot of time and water.

You fill the tank with water.  Invert five times. Dump it.  Fill.  Invert ten times. Dump it.  Fill. Invert 20 times. Dump it.  Then follow with wetting agent for a minute and then hang her up.


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## limr (Jan 16, 2015)

I use a trick for loading film onto the plastic Patterson reels. Works for 35mm and 120. Before loading the film, cut a tiny bit off the corners of the side you'll be leading into the reels first. Sometimes the sharp corners of the film get caught or something, especially at the start when you're trying to feed it through the bearings, but snipping the edges helps prevent that. Not 100 percent - every once in a while, you'll still get one stubborn bastard that just won't cooperate, but they just won't be as often


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## Rick58 (Jan 17, 2015)

'Well, for what it's worth, my workflow consists of...
No pre-wash
Always use Stop
and I always use HCA to cut down on my wash times

The pre-wash / no wash....stop / no stop topic (and you can throw wetting agent in there too) has always been a coin toss debate, but the main thing you should have pulled out of all of this is the final wash. Improperly washed negs will look fine...for a while. But if you're interested in producing a archival negative, you have to be certain all the hypo is out of the film.
Simply producing a negative to last long enough to throw on a scanner and then tossed, washing isn't so critical. MUCH more so if you want them to last for generations.

oh, and I also always use a wetting agent 

Just me and the way I was taught a long, long time ago

Edit: Put weight into Leonore's tip on clipping the corners on your film. It's definitely good advice and I don't know if it was mentioned, but also make sure your reel is perfectly dry between rolls. A wet reel can really ruin your night in the darkroom.


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## PWhite214 (Jan 17, 2015)

A few things I learned.

Loading Patterson, or similar reels.  Nearly all of my Patterson reels are adjustable for 35mm, 127 and 120/200 film.  Double check that the reels are correct for the film to be developed.  Then arrange reels, tank. center tube, lid, film and opener in the changing bag, or on the darkroom table.  In the darkroom, I put the reels, tank and lid in a cardboard box, helps to find all the pieces.  The rolls of film go in my pocket.

To help start the film, I made guides from heavy paper.



 

Starting 35mm is not so difficult, but 120/220 I tend to bend the film too much.  The flat guide makes it much easier for me. Once everything is arranged, wash hands.  Get rid of dirt, perspiration and skin oil.  Load the reel(s), remember the center tube, put in the tank and seal the lid.

Processing

Before loading the film, I prepare all the chemicals.  Stock developer is diluted to the desired working solution.  All chemicals gat placed in the sink, water and ice added to make the waterbath approx 65 Deg F.  The temperature probe is in the developer,  Stir the mixture occasionally to get an accurate temperature,   when the developer is 
68 Deg +/- 1 deg start developing.  Rinse the thermometer probe and put in in the fixer.  When the film is fixed, I use the Ilford wash method, then Photo Flo,  I hand the film in the shower after running the shower hot, to settle any dust.  Once dry cut and put into negative pages.

I hope this helps someone.

Phil


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## terri (Jan 17, 2015)

Congrats, Fred!!    Sounds like you had tons of fun, and that's what it's all about.  

I only noticed that the images were a bit grainy, and would agree with the others that reducing your agitation will solve that.   Generally, agitating for the first 30 seconds or so, followed by 4-5 agitations every minute afterwards will suffice.   After agitation, tap the tank sharply to release any bubbles that may have formed on the film, and just let it stand for the next minute.  

You're hearing from a bunch of us who have arrived at their own style, and you'll do the same, based on your satisfaction with the results you get.   Grain isn't always just a result of over-agitation; faster films (400 ISO and up) will also show more grain.   You'll learn what process gets you the results YOU want, just by simple practice with various film speeds.  

Oh, and I never use an acid stop, and have followed Ilford's 5/10/20 (with an extra 20!) routine for several years.   They wouldn't put it out there if it hadn't been tested.   Saves time and water.  
Be sure to post a picture of yourself with your new badge, okay?


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## Fred Berg (Jan 18, 2015)

christopher walrath said:


> Fred Berg said:
> 
> 
> > These are from a roll of APX 400 that I developed this morning.
> ...



Thanks, Christopher. I'm very pleased with the results and will keep to this routine for now, or at least until I'm confident enough to be able to experiment a bit.



limr said:


> I use a trick for loading film onto the plastic Patterson reels. Works for 35mm and 120. Before loading the film, cut a tiny bit off the corners of the side you'll be leading into the reels first. Sometimes the sharp corners of the film get caught or something, especially at the start when you're trying to feed it through the bearings, but snipping the edges helps prevent that. Not 100 percent - every once in a while, you'll still get one stubborn bastard that just won't cooperate, but they just won't be as often



I'll definitely try this with the next film.



Rick58 said:


> 'Well, for what it's worth, my workflow consists of...
> No pre-wash
> Always use Stop
> and I always use HCA to cut down on my wash times
> ...



Thanks, Rick. I'll be sure to check that everything is bone dry before starting.



PWhite214 said:


> A few things I learned.
> 
> Loading Patterson, or similar reels.  Nearly all of my Patterson reels are adjustable for 35mm, 127 and 120/200 film.  Double check that the reels are correct for the film to be developed.  Then arrange reels, tank. center tube, lid, film and opener in the changing bag, or on the darkroom table.  In the darkroom, I put the reels, tank and lid in a cardboard box, helps to find all the pieces.  The rolls of film go in my pocket.
> 
> ...



Thanks, Phil. The home-made loading guide looks interesting, I might give that a try. I didn't mix the chemicals beforehand this time and found myself struggling to do two things at once. In future, it will all be mixed and ready to use before getting started!



terri said:


> Congrats, Fred!!    Sounds like you had tons of fun, and that's what it's all about.
> 
> I only noticed that the images were a bit grainy, and would agree with the others that reducing your agitation will solve that.   Generally, agitating for the first 30 seconds or so, followed by 4-5 agitations every minute afterwards will suffice.   After agitation, tap the tank sharply to release any bubbles that may have formed on the film, and just let it stand for the next minute.
> 
> ...



Thanks, Terri. Once I'm a bit used to doing this, I'll play around with the agitation and see what kind of results I get. I think I'll stick with the Ilford way of washing, perhaps adding an extra fill as both you Leo suggest. A photo of old-school 'tog and his badge will be posted....


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## Fred Berg (Jan 18, 2015)

christopher walrath said:


> Gary A. said:
> 
> 
> > I never saw a development difference between using a prewash or not prewashing. I think you need to wash the film better than three tanks fulls. Something like three to five minutes in running water (the tank under the faucet). Careful with the agitation.
> ...



Having read all the replies, I think I'll keep to this way of doing it, at least until I've grown in confidence. Only time will tell about the quality of the negatives, so I'll attach info about how the film was washed when the negs are filed.


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## Fred Berg (Jan 18, 2015)

SoulfulRecover said:


> Im pretty sure my wife would kill me if I turned our bathroom into a dark room. Well, mostly having an enlarger in there. Plus she would complain about me putting everything away when I am done. She complains about a sheet of glass I use to recover my instant film negatives that's probably 12"x10" hahahahaha



Oh, I hear you! I have to do this when my wife is out and I need to be sure that there's no shred of evidence remaining when she comes home



compur said:


> Good job of developing your film and nice photos!
> 
> Ahhhh!  To stop bath or not to stop bath, that is the question ...
> 
> ...



Thank a lot, compur, the info is very interesting and useful.



_ 
_


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## gsgary (Jan 18, 2015)

I start the loading on the real before it goes in the changing bag with 35mm because you have plenty at the start of the film that has already been exposed while loading


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## Gary A. (Jan 18, 2015)

gsgary said:


> I start the loading on the real before it goes in the changing bag with 35mm because you have plenty at the start of the film that has already been exposed while loading


How do you retrieve the leader?


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## gsgary (Jan 18, 2015)

Gary A. said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> > I start the loading on the real before it goes in the changing bag with 35mm because you have plenty at the start of the film that has already been exposed while loading
> ...


I dont fully rewind


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## 480sparky (Jan 18, 2015)

Gary A. said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> > I start the loading on the real before it goes in the changing bag with 35mm because you have plenty at the start of the film that has already been exposed while loading
> ...



Or use a leader retriever.


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## Gary A. (Jan 18, 2015)

On my next batch of film with will try the Ilford 5-10-20. As for agitation, I invert a couple of times at the start of development and then maybe once or twice over the full development. I sorta expose for this agitation methodology. It works for me. But this is on the extreme end of agitation which why I suggested to reduce your agitation over time.


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## Gary A. (Jan 18, 2015)

gsgary said:


> Gary A. said:
> 
> 
> > gsgary said:
> ...


I used motors so not an option for me.


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## christopher walrath (Jan 18, 2015)

Does your motor have a setting where it will not rewind into the canister but leave the leader out as many newer (read: post 1990) cameras can?  Also, if your motor is on an older manual-ish camera you could always remove it and rewind manually.  Stop when the film comes off the winding gear.  You can tell.


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## 480sparky (Jan 18, 2015)

Problem solved.


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## MartinCrabtree (Jan 18, 2015)

If those were my results I'd be pleased.


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## gsgary (Jan 19, 2015)

Gary A. said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> > Gary A. said:
> ...


It was on my Canon you could set it in custom functions


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## Fred Berg (Jan 19, 2015)

gsgary said:


> I start the loading on the real before it goes in the changing bag with 35mm because you have plenty at the start of the film that has already been exposed while loading



I could do this with my next film as it's in a K1000 but I read on another forum that pulling the film back through the felt can lead to scratching and dust. Have you experienced these problems or was the poster just scaremongering?


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## Fred Berg (Jan 19, 2015)

MartinCrabtree said:


> If those were my results I'd be pleased.



Thanks, Martin.


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## gsgary (Jan 19, 2015)

Fred Berg said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> > I start the loading on the real before it goes in the changing bag with 35mm because you have plenty at the start of the film that has already been exposed while loading
> ...


Ive never had scratches I roll my own and make sure they are clean, you could still start it off and pop the top off in the bag


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## Fred Berg (Jan 20, 2015)

Gary A. said:


> On my next batch of film with will try the Ilford 5-10-20. As for agitation, I invert a couple of times at the start of development and then maybe once or twice over the full development. I sorta expose for this agitation methodology. It works for me. But this is on the extreme end of agitation which why I suggested to reduce your agitation over time.



The next film is T-Max 100 and I'll be using Adonal 1+25, 6 minutes, 20°C. Should I reduce the agitation? Is there any specific advice you could give for T-Max?


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## Fred Berg (Jan 20, 2015)

gsgary said:


> Fred Berg said:
> 
> 
> > gsgary said:
> ...



Thanks, Gary. I'll try it, then.


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## gsgary (Jan 20, 2015)

Fred Berg said:


> Gary A. said:
> 
> 
> > On my next batch of film with will try the Ilford 5-10-20. As for agitation, I invert a couple of times at the start of development and then maybe once or twice over the full development. I sorta expose for this agitation methodology. It works for me. But this is on the extreme end of agitation which why I suggested to reduce your agitation over time.
> ...


I shot some tmax100 @400 by mistake and used stand development with rodinal and it came out fantastic it even wet printed well, if I remember ill post some shots when I get home


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## Fred Berg (Jan 20, 2015)

gsgary said:


> Fred Berg said:
> 
> 
> > Gary A. said:
> ...



Cheers, Gary. Look forward to seeing the results you got.


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## gsgary (Jan 20, 2015)

Fred Berg said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> > Fred Berg said:
> ...



Here you go tmax100 @ 400
















This is a scan of a wet print from an HP5 negative that was stand developed in the fridge


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## Fred Berg (Jan 20, 2015)

gsgary said:


> Fred Berg said:
> 
> 
> > gsgary said:
> ...



Very nice, Gary. Did you use stand development because you realised you'd shot the roll at the wrong speed?


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## gsgary (Jan 20, 2015)

Yes I thought I was shooting HP5 I usually have some masking tape on the bottom of my camera a write what film is in the camera


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## Fred Berg (Jan 20, 2015)

gsgary said:


> Yes I thought I was shooting HP5 I usually have some masking tape on the bottom of my camera a write what film is in the camera



Good idea, I'll do the same in future. It's good to know that things can be compensated for in the developing stage if you flunk up in camera. This is a bit like pushing and pulling, isn't it?


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## 480sparky (Jan 20, 2015)

gsgary said:


> Yes I thought I was shooting HP5 I usually have some masking tape on the bottom of my camera a write what film is in the camera



The camera back doesn't have a 'slot' for the end of the film box?


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## gsgary (Jan 20, 2015)

480sparky said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> > Yes I thought I was shooting HP5 I usually have some masking tape on the bottom of my camera a write what film is in the camera
> ...


Not on Leica it would spoil the look


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## limr (Jan 20, 2015)

I think I only have one camera new enough to have that window for the film info. A few of them have a reminder dial that lets you choose Color or Panchro or Empty. Mostly I just have to remember what I have in the camera. And no, I don't have a single Leica


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## gsgary (Jan 20, 2015)

If I buy roll film from the shop I tear of the top of the box fold it so it fits in the hotshoe


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## Gary A. (Jan 20, 2015)

Fred Berg said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> > I start the loading on the real before it goes in the changing bag with 35mm because you have plenty at the start of the film that has already been exposed while loading
> ...


It is a possibility, but rather remote, with one use cassettes. If you use reloads, you gotta clean/vacuum the felt every once and a while.

I used to grab the feeder end, (not the film but the metal at the opening), of the commercial cassette and just rip open the cassette. Sorta pry one end one way and pry the other end the opposite. It's fast and no need to hunt for a can opener.


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## Gary A. (Jan 20, 2015)

christopher walrath said:


> Does your motor have a setting where it will not rewind into the canister but leave the leader out as many newer (read: post 1990) cameras can?  Also, if your motor is on an older manual-ish camera you could always remove it and rewind manually.  Stop when the film comes off the winding gear.  You can tell.


The film camera I'm using now is a 6x8 ... so no. My old Nikon F's (F, F2, didn't ... the F3 ... I don't remember, lol).


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## Gary A. (Jan 20, 2015)

Fred Berg said:


> Gary A. said:
> 
> 
> > On my next batch of film with will try the Ilford 5-10-20. As for agitation, I invert a couple of times at the start of development and then maybe once or twice over the full development. I sorta expose for this agitation methodology. It works for me. But this is on the extreme end of agitation which why I suggested to reduce your agitation over time.
> ...


With B&W film ... you can sorta expose to your development methodologies. So I'm reluctant to give specific advice because it is for how I shoot, how I develop and how I print. I remember shooting assignments where the paper would have messengers pick-up and deliver our exposed film for development and printing by photogs at the office. Everybody was giving all these different development instructions for the same ASA film. (All we shot was Tri-X and most everybody only developed ASA 400 Tri-X in D-76. I used HC110 for pushed film, others used different developers of their choice.)


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## PWhite214 (Jan 21, 2015)

Stand developing is using very dilute developer for a long time with little on no agitation.  I use Legacy Pro L110, diluted 100:1 for one hour.  Very little agitation at the start, then leave it for the rest of the hour.  
This article prompted my interest: Black and white film development for lazy people - Japan Camera Hunter
I plan to experiment more before too long.  My last experiment shooting Tri-X at ISO 400, 1600 and 3200 worked out pretty well.
Tri-X + Stand Develop Test - an album on Flickr.  

Phil


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## mkoller (Jan 21, 2015)

They look great!  the first few rolls I developed (20 years ago) came out blank!  I shot them with the lens cap on on my rangefinder   I never use acid stop on film just a plain running water rinse.  This is recommended in Anchell's  cook book.  I use a neutral fix (tf-3) but I do not think it matters much.  I always do a couple minute presoak with a drop of edwall wetting agent in distilled.  Any way congrats on some nice looking negatives. Love the pictures too!


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## Fred Berg (Jan 23, 2015)

Gary A. said:


> Fred Berg said:
> 
> 
> > Gary A. said:
> ...



OK, no probs. I'll try it in Adonal and if it doesn't come out well, I'll order some T-Max developer.



PWhite214 said:


> Stand developing is using very dilute developer for a long time with little on no agitation.  I use Legacy Pro L110, diluted 100:1 for one hour.  Very little agitation at the start, then leave it for the rest of the hour.
> This article prompted my interest: Black and white film development for lazy people - Japan Camera Hunter
> I plan to experiment more before too long.  My last experiment shooting Tri-X at ISO 400, 1600 and 3200 worked out pretty well.
> Tri-X + Stand Develop Test - an album on Flickr.
> ...



Thanks for the info and links. Much appreciated.



mkoller said:


> They look great!  the first few rolls I developed (20 years ago) came out blank!  I shot them with the lens cap on on my rangefinder   I never use acid stop on film just a plain running water rinse.  This is recommended in Anchell's  cook book.  I use a neutral fix (tf-3) but I do not think it matters much.  I always do a couple minute presoak with a drop of edwall wetting agent in distilled.  Any way congrats on some nice looking negatives. Love the pictures too!



 I have a Voigtländer viewfinder and have been known to get perfectly blank negatives using this method too! Thanks for the info and feedback.


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