# D3100 Night Shots on a fire scene



## PembrokeFire (Feb 8, 2011)

I just purchased a Nikon D3100. Up until now it has been nothing but point and shoot cameras. I asked this question before buying the camera, but I did not mention a camera in the post. I shoot all the fire scenes for our department. My problem is shooting at night. All my firefighters are always blurred. If I can get close enough with a flash then all I see is there reflective lettering and they are dark. Aside from using scene lighting or the fire itself, I need a better way to shoot. So I am asking what lens to use for best results. Please give me the exact lens. Someone said 2.8, well there are 2.8 zooms and macros etc., just confusing me more. Another said 1.8.  Recommended ISO would help too.

I know some of it is going to be trial and error. But if I at least have the right equipment and starting point, hopefully it will be easier.

Also am i better with an external flash? If so, once again, please make a recommendation down to the unit itself. Thanks so much in advance for any help you can offer


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## Trever1t (Feb 8, 2011)

you need to learn about exposure and the relationship between shutter speed, aperture and ISO before any lens will do what you need.

The reason the firefighters are blurred is because your shutter speed is too slow.

A faster lens, say a lens with f1.4 aperture will allow a faster speed setting but you will run into the same problems with exposure too bright or too dark depending on your background (fire) lighting. 

Another light source would help expose the firefighters in the forground of a blazing fire, for sure.


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## Nikato (Feb 8, 2011)

I am a complete noob myself but would like to pose a question. When I initially read your post I thought about the shutter speed like Trever said. Do you have any books on photography? I myself got the "Digital SLR photography all-in-one for dummies" and I am learning a TON of stuff. 

Ask me last week what 18mm-55mm meant on a lens and I'd have no idea. Ask me what ISO did and i'd be like "bakes cakes?". It has really been helpful, and they have an iphone/touch app for it as well.

Just suggesting that if you don't have a book, its a great one to pick up and read. Funny too.


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## hawk232 (Feb 8, 2011)

the lower the f number the faster shutter speed you will have... problem with that is you will also have a more shallow depth of field meaning that if you focus on a guy standing 40ft in front of the fire, the fire will be totally out of focus, possibly to the the point of almost unrecognizable. 

in regards to ISO you will have to experiment and see how high you can go and still meet your quality standards. if you are simply documenting the action for the dept, you should be able to get away with more noise (higher iso) if you are trying to take some actual high quality photos you will need lower iso for less noise (and slower shutter speed as a result). The thing about it is, it is ALL trial and error to see what makes the photos turn out for what YOU need. for a decent shutter speed with a kit lens and no flash i would think you would need iso 1600 or so. again, you will have to see if the noise level is acceptable for what your goals with the picture are


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## PembrokeFire (Feb 8, 2011)

I thank everyone for the great info, but none of the replies mention really what lens to purchase. I realize there are  lot of variables. But I have to start somewhere with a sort of happy medium. The camera comes stock with a 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 lens. So if I wanted to purchase another lens for night shooting what would be another choice? Many times after the fire is out, you are shooting a pretty dark scene.


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## Bellaluna (Feb 8, 2011)

I highly recommend getting the book _Understanding Exposure_ by Bryan Petersen.  It will teach you about shutter speed, ISO, and aperture that you'll need to have a knowledge of to take these pictures.

As far as a lens goes (keeping in mind that I'm still a noob myself), you'll definitely need a fast lens.  If you're getting blurry pictures, that means your shutter speed was too slow (a tripod will also help immensely if you were not using one already).  This is why I say you'll need to learn about the exposure triangle, then you can determine what shutter speed you'll need and how to adjust the aperture and ISO accordingly.


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## Village Idiot (Feb 8, 2011)

PembrokeFire said:


> I thank everyone for the great info, but none of the replies mention really what lens to purchase. I realize there are lot of variables. But I have to start somewhere with a sort of happy medium. The camera comes stock with a 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 lens. So if I wanted to purchase another lens for night shooting what would be another choice? Many times after the fire is out, you are shooting a pretty dark scene.


 
Did you mention a budget? Because I'd recommend a 70-200 f/2.8 VR, but I they're $2,160.

 Really though, you're going to probably need a longer lens. Has 55mm been long enough for you? If not, the problem comes with longer lenses also needing higher shutter speeds to reduces camera shake. Longer primes may be an option. Prime lenses generally have wider maximum apertures and are cheaper than their zoom counter parts.


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## radiorickm (Feb 8, 2011)

I spent two years as a photojournalist, and yes, my boss insisted we go to every fire scene, and every accident. Ambulance chaser extreme... and proud of it.

If you are a member of the department, you should have unrestricted access to your shots. So, I am going to suggest that you take a little time and learn to use the equipment you have on hand. 

What everyone else is talking about, is learning to set the ISO settings on the camera, to give yourself a high enough shutter speed to prevent camera blur. You have already learned that the flash will really illuminate the refelective stripes on the bunker gear. Using available light is your best and sometimes only option.

Once you learn about the lighting, and how the "camera thinks", you can control your exposures to get the desired shot.

We can tell you to go by a 50mm 1.2 lens, and then the next fire you will need a 135mm. Knowlede will be your best bet in trying to capture these kinds of photographs.

good luck, and know that most reporters would kill for the opportunities you are given.


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## PembrokeFire (Feb 9, 2011)

Radiorickm, thanks for that insight. I have access to most fires in the county. The firefighters love to see themselves posted on our department's website and refer to it after each fire call. Through mutual agreements we all respond to each others fires. You are correct as an officer, I do get unrestricted access.

I will practice shooting at night and see what I can figure out so I am ready for the next call. I need to get this figured out. On New Year's Eve I shot over 50 pictures of which I will be lucky to save 20.

A counterpart of mine is on the City of Chicago's photo unit. I let him come down and shoot some of our fires from time to time. He takes amazing night fire scene pictures, but I cannot get him to share his secrets.

I give our local paper access to all of my pictures but they still insist on sending someone out to shoot at a distance. Same shots always, one of the fire one of a firefighter in action.


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## bumpylemon (Feb 9, 2011)

20 saved out of 50 isnt that bad!


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## PembrokeFire (Feb 9, 2011)

yes,  but of course they are  never the ones I wanted.


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## rainking (Feb 9, 2011)

Here are some pictures I took of a recent fire downtown Binghamton, NY. I basically exploited the high ISO capabilities of the D7000. These were shot at 6400 ISO. 

Binghamton Fire 12-21-10 - TedTucker&#039;s Photos


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## Joseph Schmoe (Feb 9, 2011)

As a fire officer and the unofficial photographer for my department, I have been shooting scenes for a few years. There are two issues which frequestly arise on scene, both are connected.

The first issue is reflectivity, especially at night. The reflective trim on the apparatus and on the PPE tend to reflect the pre-flash light back to the camera, causing the camera to believe there is more light than there really is. Thus, many exposures come out under exposed with a bright blob where the reflective items are.

I try not to use flash when reflectivity is going to be a problem.The way to get around this is to use manual mode, with a very high ISO, a wide open aperture and the slowest shutter speed as conditions allow. The lower your f stop the better off you will be. Sadly, it appears that the faster the lens, the higher the cost.

The higher speed lenses also make day shots easier too as faster shutter speeds allow you to freeze movement on harried fire scenes.

As far as lens preference, I prefer wide angle zoom lenses as I like to capture as much of the scene as possible and the flurry of activity that the scene produces. As I am a firefighter, access isn't problem. Everyone in my agency knows who I am and lets me shoot at will, as long as I am not a safety issue. I use a Canon 15-85 3.8, it works for me 95% of the time. On brush fires where things are farther away, I use a 300 zoom.

My wide angle is not really as fast as I would like, I plan on upgrading to a 16-35 2.8 in the future, when budget allows.

This is just my opinion and experience. Good luck.


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## FiveAlarmPhotography (Mar 11, 2011)

I am also an unoffical photographer for the fire department around here. Night time fire photography I think is the hardest because of the vests, the equipment, flashing lights, etc. It takes awhile to figure out where to stand because of lighting and settings to make the pictures great.


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## PembrokeFire (Mar 11, 2011)

rainking said:


> Here are some pictures I took of a recent fire downtown Binghamton, NY. I basically exploited the high ISO capabilities of the D7000. These were shot at 6400 ISO.
> 
> Binghamton Fire 12-21-10 - TedTucker&#039;s Photos


 
That is how I wish my night shots would come out. You do a have a some street lighting and lighting of the trucks. In our rural area there is no street lighting.


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## jake337 (Mar 11, 2011)

Do you have a tripod yet? I would buy a tripod, flash and a wireless shutter release. You could then have your camera set where you want, have your flashand reqalase button in your hand. depending on your lens) you could focus to your hyperfocal distance so everything is in focus. You would then set your shutter speed to get the intesnity of the flames you want, and finally walk around with your diffused flash on manual and light your firefighters properly. If your shutter speed is still too low you could use rear curtain flash to freeze your subject in motion.

The problem would be getting your flash off-camera witht hat body. You would also need wireless triggers. 

You would like fast, wide angle lens((insert brand here)14mm f2.8) to get a closer hyperfocal distance and keep higher shutter speeds.


best regards,
jake


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