# Radio Triggers vs. built in wireless



## brush (Feb 13, 2012)

Last weekend I was trying to shoot a model on the beach at sunset, and could not get my 430EXII to fire off-camera using the 60D's built in wireless functions. I can only assume there was too much ambient light for the pulse from the popup flash to reach the 430's sensor because once I was back indoors everything worked fine off-camera again. So, it's time to consider radio poppers right?

On Amazon I found a set of CowboyStudio NPT-04 4 channel triggers, with 1 transmitter & 2 receivers for like 30 bucks. I know CowboyStudio is notoriously cheap stuff and for professional purposes it will not hold up, but I have a light stand & umbrellas from them that suit my needs just fine and the reviews on Amazon are strong...so do you think it'd be a worthwhile upgrade for outdoor shooting, or should I stick with my built in wireless 'til I decide to bite the bullet & pay for some pocket wizards or something?


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## tirediron (Feb 13, 2012)

If I were you, I'd think about paying a little more money and getting Cactus Triggers.  They're still reasonably priced, but of all the consumer-grade models, they're usually the best reviewed, and seem to better built and more reliable than Cowboy Studio gear.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Feb 13, 2012)

I like pocketwizards a lot. 

I not only use them to trigger my all lights, but also the camera plus lights when i'm on a tripod and want to hold the shutter open for some background ambient to enter at night.


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## CCericola (Feb 13, 2012)

These guys did a mini review on triggers. Check out their info on equipment Home | lightenupandshoot.com : Entertaining Photography Tutorials. Strobist style!


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## Big Mike (Feb 13, 2012)

A few things to consider here.  If you go with any of the 'basic' triggers, you will have to use manual flash (setting the flash power and exposure manually).  

If you go with Radio Poppers or the TL Pocket Wizards, you can retain the E-TTL functionality and HSS etc. of your built-in system.  But this is an expensive option.
Also note that the Radio Poppers are a piggyback system, and require an on-camera master.  I haven't looked at them in a long time, I'm not sure if the pop-up master will work, or if you would need a 580EX master, just to make it work (obviously a much more expensive option).

So if you are OK going with a manual option, the industry standard is/has been the Pocket Wizard Plus II units.  They are great, but at $160 each unit, they aren't cheap.  The get as low as $30, but those are hit and miss.  I have an old PT-04 set (from Gadget Infinity) and they worked but not well enough for pro use.  There are newer/better models that probably work well enough, but I don't know.

I went with the Cyber Sync triggers (From Paul Buff/Alien Bee).  They aren't all that cheap (about $140 for a trigger and receiver) but they have worked flawlessly for me.


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## Mach0 (Feb 13, 2012)

http://amzn.com/B005LUPV1W

These look pretty promising I might say. Worth checking out IMHO


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## mjhoward (Feb 13, 2012)

I REALLY like the Yongnuo RF-602's I got.  I've never had a misfire at 1/250.  I got the transmitter and 3 receivers for under $70.


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## brush (Feb 13, 2012)

Wow, lots more to take into consideration than I thought of. I'm glad I asked! I've got a little more homework to do still.

So, I didn't even think about the E-TTL thing. I guess I can just practice my manual flash skills a bit, probably a good route anyway right? The lightenupandshoot guys CCericola links to also have good things to say about the Yongnuo RF-602s...I'm thinking I might give that a shot. They're 30 bucks on amazon and I can afford to lose that money if it turns out to be a bad idea. Only huge drawback to them for me, other than the E-TTL thing, is that plastic cold-shoe mount, I'm sure I'll break that, but maybe it'll teach me to be careful with my gear!


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## Village Idiot (Feb 14, 2012)

brush said:


> Wow, lots more to take into consideration than I thought of. I'm glad I asked! I've got a little more homework to do still.
> 
> So, I didn't even think about the E-TTL thing. I guess I can just practice my manual flash skills a bit, probably a good route anyway right? The lightenupandshoot guys CCericola links to also have good things to say about the Yongnuo RF-602s...I'm thinking I might give that a shot. They're 30 bucks on amazon and I can afford to lose that money if it turns out to be a bad idea. Only huge drawback to them for me, other than the E-TTL thing, is that plastic cold-shoe mount, I'm sure I'll break that, but maybe it'll teach me to be careful with my gear!



Well, most people use manual flash vs. letting it set the exposure for you. You get more accurate and consistant images that way for the most part.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Feb 14, 2012)

MANUAL flash FTW


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## o hey tyler (Feb 14, 2012)

Mach0 said:


> http://amzn.com/B005LUPV1W
> 
> These look pretty promising I might say. Worth checking out IMHO



I have them, and they work great. Hoping to pick up another receiver soon.


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## Mach0 (Feb 14, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


> Mach0 said:
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> > http://amzn.com/B005LUPV1WThese look pretty promising I might say. Worth checking out IMHO
> ...


Still waiting for the Nikon set to be released lol.


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## RichardsTPF (Feb 14, 2012)

> Originally Posted by *o hey tyler*
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Looks like a great deal for a noob learning off camera flash on both TTL & manual mode.

What is that *E*-TTL stand for? Sometimes I see i-TTL, what's the difference?


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## Big Mike (Feb 14, 2012)

E-TTL is Canon, i-TTL is Nikon.


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## o hey tyler (Feb 14, 2012)

RichardsTPF said:


> > Originally Posted by *o hey tyler*
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I would actually strongly suggest that someone NEW to off camera flash learn with manual flash first (with a pair of Cactus triggers or similar). TTL flash and transmitters have a much steeper learning curve, and if you don't know how to effectively tune and place lights, TTL is just going to do more harm than good IMHO.


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## Mach0 (Feb 14, 2012)

RichardsTPF said:
			
		

> Looks like a great deal for a noob learning off camera flash on both TTL & manual mode.
> 
> What is that E-TTL stand for? Sometimes I see i-TTL, what's the difference?



They offer a lot for the price. I personally wouldn't use it solely for ttl only. It's the ability to use high speed sync. That price+high speed sync = awesome bang for the buck.


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## brush (Feb 21, 2012)

Decided to order the Yongnuo's, hopefully they'll be here soon! Instead of the RF-602 I went with the 603's though...2 reasons I figured that'd work better for me: 1)Instead of a transmitter/receiver setup, it has 2 transceivers. This means both have a real metal hot shoe, which I'm expecting will be more durable in my light stand than the plastic on the 602's receiver. 2) uses AAA batteries instead of the little weird battery that can't be recharged.

I'm wondering something else about these. Since the transceiver has a hot shoe mount on bottom and its own shoe on top, can I mount one to the camera, then a flash on top of it and still use it to control off-camera flash too? Reason I ask is because with the 60D's wireless functions, you can set the off camera flash to fire with the popup as a fill flash & I've kind of liked the results of that for some shots, so it'd be nice to still have the option for on-camera fill.


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## brush (Feb 21, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


> I would actually strongly suggest that someone NEW to off camera flash learn with manual flash first (with a pair of Cactus triggers or similar). TTL flash and transmitters have a much steeper learning curve, and if you don't know how to effectively tune and place lights, TTL is just going to do more harm than good IMHO.



This seems like great advice. When my sister & I were kids my mom insisted we could not use calculators until we didn't need them in math class. Had to learn to do everything manually first. If we didn't know WHY the answer was x=2, it didn't matter if we knew the answer. I'm thinking using the flash is the same thing...it doesn't matter if you shoot a great photo with TTL, if you don't know why it rocked you can't replicate it.


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## kassad (Feb 21, 2012)

Mach0 said:


> o hey tyler said:
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That's crazy, they make them for Sony but not Canon.


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## o hey tyler (Feb 21, 2012)

kassad said:


> Mach0 said:
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What are you talking about? They DO make them for Canon. He linked the Canon version.


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## kassad (Feb 21, 2012)

o hey tyler said:


> kassad said:
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opps mistyped they don't make them for Nikon.


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## kassad (Feb 21, 2012)

kassad said:


> o hey tyler said:
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Nevermind they are on fleabay for Nikon.  Though you have to buy them direct from China.


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