# Photoshop Elements?



## fmw (Apr 1, 2016)

I've been using Photoshop CS2 for years and years.  It does everything I need except deal with modern raw files.  I have to change.  I don't rent software so the new Photoshop is out of the question.  Editing photos online is out of the question because I have metered internet service.  So I'm wondering if Elements will get the job done for me.  My minimum requirements are:

1. crop and resize
2. clone stamp, spot healing and eraser
3. image>adjustments>levels, brightness/contrast, hue/saturation, shadow/highlight
4. image>rotate canvas
5. file>automate>photomerge
6. Ability to paste one image over another ctrl C,A,V.

Can elements do all of things at a minimum?  If not, what can?


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## Overread (Apr 1, 2016)

What about lightroom 5 - I believe that is still sold as stand alone software to use fully out of the box with no subscription and it should do most of what you need.

Another option would be to consider using GIMP - powerful if more tricky to use than Photoshop. 

Elements can do a lot but often has odd shortfallings; however some things you can get by using shortcut key-combinations same as full photoshop and there are a legion of 3rd party addons that can expand basic elements.


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## The_Traveler (Apr 1, 2016)

Autodesk Pixlr is $15/year.
and works nicely


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## Ysarex (Apr 1, 2016)

You don't want to use Elements for raw file conversion. So solve that problem with alternative software and just keep using CS2. If you're on a WIN system you can download the free raw converter Raw Therapee. If on a MAC the same as well as DarkTable. Both free and both excellent.

If you want to spend some money do as Overread suggested and get the stand alone version of LR5.

Joe


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## john.margetts (Apr 1, 2016)

I use UFRaw as a RAW converter. It can be set up to feed into your Photoshop CS at the end of the RAW conversion.


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## JacaRanda (Apr 1, 2016)

Here you go.  FAQ: Why is Photoshop Elements cheaper? What's ... | Adobe Community

Lightroom will not do everything you listed.


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## table1349 (Apr 1, 2016)

What OS?  If it is OS X then this is the ticket.  Affinity Photo - Professional image editing software for Mac


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## Dave442 (Apr 1, 2016)

My old Windows computer is running LR and CS4 (I think that is now a free download from Adobe - and unsupported). So RAW files are initially opened in LR and then in LR can send to PS and then back to LR.

On my Mac I am running LR (5.6 standalone) and of course recently installed the now free NIK software and have the On1 program for layers. The NIK and On1 are usually opened from LR with the Edit-In option. On1 can also be used by itself, but most the time I run everything through LR.

At some point I will move to the Creative Cloud option for LR and that will add PS to my Mac.


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## Peeb (Apr 1, 2016)

Ysarex said:


> You don't want to use Elements for raw file conversion...
> 
> Joe


Because...?


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## Ysarex (Apr 1, 2016)

Peeb said:


> Ysarex said:
> 
> 
> > You don't want to use Elements for raw file conversion...
> ...



Because the version of ACR included in Elements is crippled and it's missing some pretty critical stuff like CA correction for example.

Joe


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## KmH (Apr 1, 2016)

The version of ACR Elements have is only about 1/2 of ACR.


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## Didereaux (Apr 1, 2016)

Keep your old CS2.  Buy NOT RENT  Lr5/6.  It will do 95% of what you want, opens all RAW files, and it will then allow you to edit in your CS2.


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## fmw (Apr 1, 2016)

Thanks guys.  I downloaded the raw therapee and I'll spend some time figuring out how to use it.  I appreciate the input.  At least with PS I don't have to learn a new program.


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## fmw (Apr 2, 2016)

I found yet another free option from Adobe.  I downloaded a free converter that reads all the modern raw formats and converts them to an Adobe DNG file that can be used by my old Photoshop.  I can edit the DNG file in Photoshop and/or convert it to yet another format.  I haven't used it yet but I assume it will work in Bridge as well.  The raw therapee converts to TIFF or PNG.  The DNG file is what I'm used to for raw editing.

Thanks for the input.


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## fmw (Apr 3, 2016)

Oddly, the  Adobe converter doesn't recognize the NEF files.   Raw Therapee works just fine but doesn't produce a DNG file and is fussy to use.  Since Lightroom is becoming rentalware I don't want to be stuck with another unsupported product from Adobe.

I downloaded the PS Elements trial.  It works just fine and does about what my version of Bridge does with the NEF file.  It converts to a 16 bit DNG file which can be edited in Photoshop.  I found it with the video editor included for $99 and ordered it.  Despite its missing some functionality I think it will work fine for me.  The converter would have been ideal if it had worked.


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## fmw (Apr 3, 2016)

Ysarex said:


> Peeb said:
> 
> 
> > Ysarex said:
> ...



I assume you refer to correcting color fringing.  Photoshop will do that.  All I need is a DNG file from the camera raw.  Elements does that quickly and easily.


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## snowbear (Apr 3, 2016)

I know it's an added step, but couldn't you convert the raw files to tiff with the camera maker's software?  Then just import the tiffs into PS2.


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## fmw (Apr 3, 2016)

Yes, I think that is another option.  Memory cards are certainly large and cheap.  I think it may be faster to do the conversions in the computer.  Also I prefer using a DNG which is the raw file simply reorganized for editing in Photoshop.  It is like a translation of camera raw to Photoshop.  It provides more control in Photoshop than any other format.  May not be a big deal but I've always used DNG for raw files.


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## table1349 (Apr 3, 2016)

You have an old version of Photoshop.  Some day you may consider changing to a newer program.  If it is not from Adobe you may have issues with the DNG files.  The following is an article regarding the following.  Yes I use Capture One Pro and No I am not suggesting that anyone rush out and buy it.  I use it and like it.  The point being DNG is a proprietary file type to Adobe.  

Why I Stopped Using the DNG File Format


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## Ysarex (Apr 3, 2016)

gryphonslair99 said:


> You have an old version of Photoshop.  Some day you may consider changing to a newer program.  If it is not from Adobe you may have issues with the DNG files.  The following is an article regarding the following.  Yes I use Capture One Pro and No I am not suggesting that anyone rush out and buy it.  I use it and like it.  The point being DNG is a proprietary file type to Adobe.
> 
> Why I Stopped Using the DNG File Format



 Yep, DNG is a marriage contract between you and Adobe. Some of the other converters will read DNG but as a rule switching to DNG actually reduces the portability of your raw files. If you can't imagine ever getting a divorce from Adobe then DNG and delete your raw originals. Otherwise keep those raw originals.

Joe


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## vintagesnaps (Apr 3, 2016)

My camera is DNG and I have Elements; I don't subscribe, it was a one time purchase. I'd heard/read when I got a new computer that the only way to get it was subscription but that wasn't the case.

I'm able to do a number of the types of editing listed in the OP. Some I haven't done to know for sure if all of the listed edits can be done in Elements or not. Works for my purposes.


edit - And that Petapixel 'article' is just one photographer's blog and that photographer's opinion. So I'd take anything like that with a grain of salt.


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## table1349 (Apr 3, 2016)

vintagesnaps said:


> My camera is DNG and I have Elements; I don't subscribe, it was a one time purchase. I'd heard/read when I got a new computer that the only way to get it was subscription but that wasn't the case.
> 
> I'm able to do a number of the types of editing listed in the OP. Some I haven't done to know for sure if all of the listed edits can be done in Elements or not. Works for my purposes.
> 
> ...


True but the fact is DNG is a proprietary file type for Adobe is not opinion.   Nikon and Adobe collaborated to get DNG in the Nikon menu as they did with some other camera makers.


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## KmH (Apr 3, 2016)

DNG is an Open Source file type and hasn't been proprietary to Adobe for several years now.
Digital Negative - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


> DNG is based on the TIFF/EPstandard format, and mandates significant use of metadata. Use of the file format is royalty-free; Adobe has published a license allowing anyone to exploit DNG,[4] and has also stated that there are no known intellectual property encumbrances or license requirements for DNG.[5] Adobe stated that if there were a consensus that DNG should be controlled by a standards body, they were open to the idea.[6] Adobe has submitted DNG to ISO for incorporation into their revision of TIFF/EP.[7]
> 
> 
> _Digital image preservation (sometimes known as "archiving")_: to be suitable for the purpose of preserving digital images as an authentic resource for future generations.[19] _Assessment_: The US Library of Congress states that DNG is a recommended alternative to other raw image formats: "Less desirable file formats: RAW; Suggested alternatives: DNG".[20] The Digital Photography Best Practices and Workflow (dpBestflow) project, funded by the United States Library of Congress and run by the American Society of Media Photographers (ASMP), singles out DNG, and states "DNG files have proven to be significantly more useful than the proprietary raw files in our workflow".[21]
> ...


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## table1349 (Apr 3, 2016)

Very interesting.  I only looked at when it first was introduced.  Never gave it a second thought as I never choose to use it.  I do know that my Camera One Pro does not recognize it.


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## table1349 (Apr 3, 2016)

Is it just me, or does this sound like Adobe can take back DNG anytime they want and kill the open source aspect?  As well as possibly keep the open source improvements.  

* DNG Specification patent license *
*Digital Negative (DNG) Specification patent license*

Adobe is the publisher of the Digital Negative (DNG) Specification describing an image file format for storing camera raw information used in a wide range of hardware and software. Adobe provides the DNG Specification to the public for the purpose of encouraging implementation of this file format in a compliant manner. This document is a patent license granted by Adobe to individuals and organizations that desire to develop, market, and/or distribute hardware and software that reads and/or writes image files compliant with the DNG Specification.

*Grant of rights*

Subject to the terms below and solely to permit the reading and writing of image files that comply with the DNG Specification, Adobe hereby grants all individuals and organizations the worldwide, royalty-free, nontransferable, nonexclusive right under all Essential Claims to make, have made, use, sell, import, and distribute Compliant Implementations.

“Compliant Implementation” means a portion of a software or hardware product that reads or writes computer files compliant with the DNG Specification.

“DNG Specification” means any version of the Adobe DNG Specification made publicly available by Adobe (for example, version 1.0.0.0 dated September 2004).

“Essential Claim” means a claim of a patent, whenever and wherever issued, that Adobe has the right to license without payment of royalty or other fee that is unavoidably infringed by implementation of the DNG Specification. A claim is unavoidably infringed by the DNG Specification only when it is not possible to avoid infringing when conforming with such specification because there is no technically possible noninfringing alternative for achieving such conformity. Essential Claim does not include a claim that is infringed by implementation of (a) enabling technology that may be necessary to make or use any product or portion thereof that complies with the DNG Specification but is not itself expressly set forth in the DNG Specification (for example, compiler technology and basic operating system technology), (b) technology developed elsewhere and merely incorporated by reference in the DNG Specification, or (c) the implementation of file formats other than DNG.

*Revocation*

Adobe may revoke the rights granted above to any individual or organizational licensee in the event that such licensee or its affiliates brings any patent action against Adobe or its affiliates related to the reading or writing of files that comply with the DNG Specification.

Any Compliant Implementation distributed under this license must include the following notice displayed in a prominent manner within its source code and documentation: "This product includes DNG technology under license by Adobe Systems Incorporated.”http://www.adobe.com/products/dng/

*No warranty*

The rights granted herein are provided on an as-is basis without warranty of any kind, including warranty of title or noninfringement. Nothing in this license shall be construed as (a) requiring the maintenance of any patent, (b) a warranty or representation as to the validity or scope of any patent, (c) a warranty or representation that any product or service will be free from infringement of any patent, (d) an agreement to bring or prosecute actions against any infringers of any patent, or (e) conferring any right or license under any patent claim other than Essential Claims.

*Reservation of rights*

All rights not expressly granted herein are reserved.


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## fmw (Apr 3, 2016)

Keeping the original raw files certainly isn't a problem.  Camera raw files aren't readable by some versions of Photoshop (like mine) but DNG files are.  Pretty hard to go wrong with it.  If I needed to convert them to TIFF or PNG or any other format, any version of photoshop can do that without issue.  DNG is only important to Photoshop users but it is the best format for it.  Everything that people do by editing raw files can be done right in Photoshop with a DNG file.


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## fmw (Apr 3, 2016)

gryphonslair99 said:


> Is it just me, or does this sound like Adobe can take back DNG anytime they want and kill the open source aspect?  As well as possibly keep the open source improvements.
> 
> * DNG Specification patent license *
> *Digital Negative (DNG) Specification patent license*
> ...



I suppose they could but there would be no advantage to them to do it.  People would simply convert the files to something else.  Same thing with PNG for that matter.


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## table1349 (Apr 3, 2016)

In doing some additional research it seems the DMG vs Non DMG seems to be another UV filter or not for protection issues.  It has good points as well as bad.  I suppose it is one of those what ever works for you files.


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## Ysarex (Apr 3, 2016)

fmw said:


> Keeping the original raw files certainly isn't a problem.  Camera raw files aren't readable by some versions of Photoshop (like mine) but DNG files are.  Pretty hard to go wrong with it.  If I needed to convert them to TIFF or PNG or any other format, any version of photoshop can do that without issue.  DNG is only important to Photoshop users but it is the best format for it.  Everything that people do by editing raw files can be done right in Photoshop with a DNG file.



It would be safer to say "most things" that people do.... I sometimes switch demosaicing algorithms to take advantage of the differences between them. Try that in ACR. ACR is pretty good as a raw converter, but there's a lot more out there than what ACR provides. How about apply initial input sharpening using RL deconvolution? How about anamorphic distortion correction?

Joe


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## fmw (Apr 4, 2016)

Ysarex said:


> fmw said:
> 
> 
> > Keeping the original raw files certainly isn't a problem.  Camera raw files aren't readable by some versions of Photoshop (like mine) but DNG files are.  Pretty hard to go wrong with it.  If I needed to convert them to TIFF or PNG or any other format, any version of photoshop can do that without issue.  DNG is only important to Photoshop users but it is the best format for it.  Everything that people do by editing raw files can be done right in Photoshop with a DNG file.
> ...



OK, most things people do.  And everything I do.


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