# Starting out: What to charge? How to market?



## TCUphoto (Sep 13, 2011)

I feel like I'm ready to make myself official. I'm ready to start a small business. So, how do you suggest going from "that friend who takes good pictures" to "a portrait photographer"? Any good marketing/advertising techniques work for you? Also, what do you suggest charging for sessions?

My plan for basic sessions:  one hour photo sessions, outdoor locations, CD with 25+ edited images. 

Any start-up suggestions appreciated. Thanks.


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## tirediron (Sep 13, 2011)

*The first thing you need to do is draft a business plan and stick to it.*  Determine your fees based on actual costs of equipment, rent, insurance, etc, plus what you need to draw as a salary, while staying competitive in your market niche.  Ensure that you have sufficient insurance and licenses, as well as know all of your local, state and federal tax requirements.  Take advantage of all the free advertising you can (Craig's List, etc) try Facebook ads, and print ads.  You can have circulars inserted in most local newspapers for a reasonable fee.


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## cgipson1 (Sep 14, 2011)

Don't forget the legal and liability side of business either...

Amazon.com: The Small Business Start-Up Kit: A Step-by-Step Legal Guide (9781413310993): Peri H. Pakroo J.D.: Books


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## KmH (Sep 14, 2011)

You can get startup advice for free at www.sba.gov and www.score.org

I recommend the inexpensive book: How to Start a Home-Based Photography Business, 6th (Home-Based Business Series) 

Good luck to you. 

You may want to read: http://www.ppmag.com/profit-center/...eaking-financial-survey-can-be-your-guide.php but take into account, the linked to article came before the explosion in DSLR camera sales, and the concurrent flood of people entering the retail photography business.

Many new to business make the mistake of not including all of their costs when determining their CODB (Cost-Of-Doing-Business). Here is an online CODB calculator - NPPA: Cost of Doing Business Calculator


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## spacefuzz (Sep 14, 2011)

definitely write a business plan, but remember that if your needs or market dictate it, by all means modify it!  when you write it you may overlook things you dont know that need to be incorporated later. 
And like the others said, make sure your margins are sustainable.  Dont cut prices for quick sales that undermine your product in the long term.


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## orljustin (Sep 14, 2011)

TCUphoto said:


> I feel like I'm ready to make myself official. I'm ready to start a small business.



Why?  Wouldn't you rather pursue your present career of a Physician's Assistant?  Why do you feel you should start some sort of a photography business?


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## TCUphoto (Sep 18, 2011)

Thanks all. I definitely am pursuing my career as a P.A. However, I love photography, need a creative outlet in my life, and I've always wanted to own my own small business. 

Has anyone tried getting new clients on Craigslist? Any success?


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## tevo (Sep 18, 2011)

tirediron said:


> *The first thing you need to do is draft a business plan and stick to it.*  Determine your fees based on actual costs of equipment, rent, insurance, etc, plus what you need to draw as a salary, while staying competitive in your market niche.  Ensure that you have sufficient insurance and licenses, as well as know all of your local, state and federal tax requirements.  Take advantage of all the free advertising you can (Craig's List, etc) try Facebook ads, and print ads.  You can have circulars inserted in most local newspapers for a reasonable fee.



tirediron, once again, you're being too vague. -____-


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## Bitter Jeweler (Sep 18, 2011)

Read threads like this...http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/general-shop-talk/256940-ideas-getting-busier-i-need-help.html


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## KmH (Sep 18, 2011)

Did you know that marketing, and advertising are not the same thing?



> Marketing is the process used to determine _what products or services_ _may be of interest_ _to customers_, and the strategy to use in sales, communications and business development. It generates the strategy that underlies sales techniques, business communication, and business developments. It is an integrated process through which companies build strong customer relationships, and create value for their customers and for themselves.





> _Advertising_ is a form of communication used to persuade an audience (viewers, readers or listeners) _to take some action_ with respect to products, ideas, or services.


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## orljustin (Sep 19, 2011)

TCUphoto said:


> Thanks all. I definitely am pursuing my career as a P.A. However, I love photography, need a creative outlet in my life, and I've always wanted to own my own small business.
> 
> Has anyone tried getting new clients on Craigslist? Any success?



Taking pictures of people you find from Craigslist for a few dollars isn't really "owning my own small business".  Why not just be creative and shoot thing that don't require the extra work a professional business does?


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## rach27 (Sep 27, 2011)

Check out other photographers in your area, what they are doing and what they charge... but at the end of the day you have got to decide what your photography and creativity is worth. I noticed in my area that there's quite a few photographers who charge a very low sitting fee and try and make it up through prints etc... and I end up wondering how they make any money. Another way is to charge a sitting fee that covers your time and makes your profit there... allowing you to charge a more reasonable amount for prints, etc.

In terms of getting clients, I would say rope in friends and family to help out with a few sessions to build up your portfolio so potential clients can see your work.  Kenny and I were lucky as we got asked by a family member to cover their wedding and one of Kennys mates has hired us to photograph theirs in November.

If Craiglist, is anything like Gumtree I wouldn't have much hope of finding clients as people are trying to get something for next to nothing half the time (there are a few exceptions)... but you never know. A lot of photographers blog their work, regularly updating people with their latest work.


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## LarissaPhotography (Oct 2, 2011)

Wow, you guys must really have approached starting your first business different than we did.  In fact, some of the things you're thinking about TCU Photo seem very reasonable to us.  Start with a lower price and let your friends, family, and Craigslist deal-finders know you're wanting to start making SOME money, but you're mainly working on building your portfolio.  In my opinion, if you're making $50 for a session, it's a completely different game than when you make $0.  You've crossed the threshhold.  If you really love photography and you're wanting to start moving in the direction of making money at it, go for it!


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## KmH (Oct 2, 2011)

Good for you.

Historically, you are an exception, not the rule.

IIRC, you had a previous business background?


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## ManhattanShutterBug (Oct 3, 2011)

I disagree with starting cheap because raising your prices may cause more hassle then starting off at a price you would want in the future. I wouldn't use craigslist, before I had opened a studio I had a home based studio and got some real weirdos from online classifieds. However Facebook ads and/or pages are great and print ads as previously mentioned. Flyers are good and advertising in community newsletter is good exposure too. Volunteering at charity events and handing out business cards and if your city has festivals etc you can volunteer or rent a booth. Word of mouth is best I find

Good luck!


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## KmH (Oct 3, 2011)

When you raise prices you leave a larger portion of whatever customer base you had behind, and have to start building a new customer base.

I'm not talking about small, every 6 months or so 5% routine price increases needed to cover the ever rising non-reimbursed business expenses. I'm talking about the large 'I have to make a profit' price increases. 

Obviously, someone that has been using a loss-leader pricing strategy to give the business a start will have to increase prices rather dramatically to become profitable.

Imagine this scenario:

"Oh Brenda! Who took those photos for you?"

"TCUphoto took those for me. I just love them and she was so affordable. I called her just last week to schedule a session to get more photos, but she said she had to really raised her prices to stay in business, and I can't come close to affording her anymore."

That's called bad 'word-of-mouth' advertising.


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## TCUphoto (Oct 6, 2011)

Very true. I can see how that would be bad word of mouth advertising. However, how do you get clients to buy $150 sessions if you only have 5 photo sessions in your experience? 

Thanks all for your advice. I truly believe I have good work, and can make a product tailored to my client. I just booked a wedding yesterday for January 2013, so I'm starting to get some business. So next question, at what point do you make a website? Get business cards? etc...

I have about 5-7 photo sessions under my belt, along with a lot of landscape and macro stuff.


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## spacefuzz (Oct 6, 2011)

TCUphoto said:


> Very true. I can see how that would be bad word of mouth advertising. However, how do you get clients to buy $150 sessions if you only have 5 photo sessions in your experience?
> 
> Thanks all for your advice. I truly believe I have good work, and can make a product tailored to my client. I just booked a wedding yesterday for January 2013, so I'm starting to get some business. So next question, at what point do you make a website? Get business cards? etc...
> 
> I have about 5-7 photo sessions under my belt, along with a lot of landscape and macro stuff.



A: If you have quality examples it shouldnt matter how many paid shoots you have under your belt.  Ideally you have practiced shooting on models to learn lighting, posing, etc.  dont discount all of that experience. 

B: people are planning weddings for 2013?  As a man I am baffled.....but anyways get business cards right away, you want to start networking and getting your name out as soon as possible.


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## gsgary (Oct 6, 2011)

You are not going to get much from 1 hour sessions by the time you have setup lighting and took some light readings you will probably only have about 15 minutes


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## KmH (Oct 6, 2011)

TCUphoto said:


> Very true. I can see how that would be bad word of mouth advertising. However, how do you get clients to buy $150 sessions if you only have 5 photo sessions in your experience?
> 
> Thanks all for your advice. I truly believe I have good work, and can make a product tailored to my client. I just booked a wedding yesterday for January 2013, so I'm starting to get some business. So next question, at what point do you make a website? Get business cards? etc...
> 
> I have about 5-7 photo sessions under my belt, along with a lot of landscape and macro stuff.


A wedding booked for 2013 is not yet 'business'. Did you take a retainer ($$$'s) and have the B&G sign your contract to secure the booked date? What provisions are there in you contract if the B&G decide to cancel - next week, in 6 months, or 3 days before the booked date?

You should have had a web site and business cards before you opened for business. In partial retirement I was distributing about 5000 business cards a year, 1000 a month when I was shooting full time.

Do you have any kind of a business/marketing plan?


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## DiskoJoe (Oct 6, 2011)

You are not ready to start a business. My tip is to wait. Patience is a virtue.


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## bennielou (Oct 6, 2011)

I think that KmH has some good advice, even if you might not want to hear it.

What I haven't seen a lot of in the last several years is the natural evolution of turning a hobby into a business.  So many people think it's just this cash cow that never stops mooing.  They buy a camera in January, and by June they have set up a website and are "going into business".  

You can take some stunning photos, but people who don't take the BUSINESS side seriously will always fail.  Every single time.  Snapping the shutter is such a miniscule part of our business.  Because we are not into_ photography._  We are in the* photography business*.

The photography *business *is so much more than taking pretty photos, having nice lighting, and cool photoshopping, and facebook sites, and business cards.

A business involves an initial business plan, legally setting up the business, getting the required insurance and legal documents taken care of FIRST.
It involves knowing how to price your work to make a sustainable profit in a competitive market.
It involves knowing how to SELL the deal, or you won't be working anyway.
It involves being good about dealing with clients, and knowing when and when not to bend.


Every other day, I see another post about "going in to business" in which the OP thinks nothing more is required than making a website, getting business cards, and giving work away.
I mean do it if you want to.  But just know that's not a photography _business_.  That is taking photos for a few bucks.


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## dnavarrojr (Oct 7, 2011)

Last Saturday I attended a charity event for curing cancer and I took hundreds of photos.  I spent the weekend editing the photos, posting them on Facebook on my business page and on the page for the event which allowed the performers to tag themselves.  I've had emails and calls from several dozen people who loved my photos and so far 22 have booked sessions.  Four hours at the event plus another 4 hours editing and posting photos is all it took.  Get out and get involved.


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## dnavarrojr (Oct 7, 2011)

bennielou said:


> The photography *business *is so much more than taking pretty photos, having nice lighting, and cool photoshopping, and facebook sites, and business cards.



I don't believe in discouraging people, if you want to go into business then go into business.  But this advice and the advice of many others, even if a big gruff, is spot on correct if you want to STAY in business.

You can't just wing it, you really need to have a plan.  You really need to think it through and write down your goals.  You need to make a plan and be ready for all this business throws at you unexpectedly...

What do you do when a client doesn't like your work and wants their money back?  Did you use a contract which protects you?  
What about when a client who paid $50 tells you they want you to sign over the copyrights to THEIR photos?  Do you know what your rights are?
What happens when you book a wedding, show up and your ONE AND ONLY camera stops working in the middle of the ceremony?
Are you losing profits because you only deliver images on CD when the real money is in print packages?
Do you have insurance that covers you when you're shooting on location, ask the client to take a step back (or forward), they fall, hurt themselves and sue you?
Do you have the right equipment for every event you shoot?  Enough batteries, memory cards?  Nothing more embarrassing than running out of power or memory in the middle of a shoot.

Plus several dozen other questions you need answers to BEFORE you do this as a business.  Those are some of the things a business plan helps you with.  Not to mention the financial questions...  If you charge $50 for a session, pay $12 in gas and materials and spend 4 hours total work between driving, shooting and editing, is $9.50 an hour really worth your time?  And THE MOST IMPORTANT question of all...  Are you willing to say NO?  Are you willing to tell a potential client NO, you can't drive to another location after the session has already started.  NO, you will not provide them with the RAW files from the shoot.  NO,  they can't have 10 or 15 more images for free when you contracted for 5 images and they can't narrow it down to just 5.  NO, they can't have a refund 6 months later when they've accepted the images but someone tells them the images they liked are actually bad and they should get their money back.  NO, you can't stay an extra hour or two at no additional charge.

Try not to take personally some things said here. Most of it really is good advice.


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## bennielou (Oct 7, 2011)

dnavarrojr said:


> Last Saturday I attended a charity event for curing cancer and I took hundreds of photos.  I spent the weekend editing the photos, posting them on Facebook on my business page and on the page for the event which allowed the performers to tag themselves.  I've had emails and calls from several dozen people who loved my photos and so far 22 have booked sessions.  Four hours at the event plus another 4 hours editing and posting photos is all it took.  Get out and get involved.



And I'm just ASSUMING that you have a documented legal business, the required liablility insurance, and pay your quartly taxes on the 20th of every third month, Right?  I'm also just guessing that you are charging $150 plus per session to take care of all the overhead listed above?

This is exactly what I'm talking about.  I'm not trying to discourage anyone.  I'm just saying to do things the right way or you will simply set yourself up for a short term failure.    If you don't do it right, you will spend your life running to and fro, wearing your equipment out, and making less than minimun wages for all your effort.

You won't get into legal woes if you do things right, at least hopefully.

Take the time to make a real business.  If you do, the bonus is, is that you will charge the correct amount of money, and you will value your business which in turn others will value.

No one is trying to talk anyone out of anything.  It's just got to be done the right way.


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## shootermcgavin (Oct 7, 2011)

bennielou said:


> dnavarrojr said:
> 
> 
> > Last Saturday I attended a charity event for curing cancer and I took hundreds of photos.  I spent the weekend editing the photos, posting them on Facebook on my business page and on the page for the event which allowed the performers to tag themselves.  I've had emails and calls from several dozen people who loved my photos and so far 22 have booked sessions.  Four hours at the event plus another 4 hours editing and posting photos is all it took.  Get out and get involved.
> ...


 You make it sound like what you're talking about is difficult.  Liability insurance is cheap cheap, an LLC is formed in 10 minutes online for $130 in my state.  You shouldn't worry about paying taxes until your third year if you do things right.  If you're really business savy taxes should almost be non-existent.  I think what the guy did is the best way to possibly get business in the beginning, go to a large public event take great photos, hand out your card w/facebook or website and tell them they can see their photos there.  The average number of people at a wedding is 500, 250 from groom 250 from bride.  So if you can make 1 person extremely happy you are possibly spreading that word to 250 other people, but it works both ways piss off that one person and 250 are most likely going to hear about it.  Most small businesses cut corners in the beginning, you have nothing to lose.  When you start making money then worry about protecting it.


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## bennielou (Oct 7, 2011)

shootermcgavin said:


> bennielou said:
> 
> 
> > dnavarrojr said:
> ...



Oh, you only have to pay your sales tax in the third year?  I guess Texas doesn't know about that yet........I'll have to let them know.

And yes, it's NOT difficult to set things up legally.  But many photogs don't.  For instance, if I looked you up, would I find a legal business or a shadow?


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## dnavarrojr (Oct 7, 2011)

bennielou said:


> And I'm just ASSUMING that you have a documented legal business, the required liablility insurance, and pay your quartly taxes on the 20th of every third month, Right?  I'm also just guessing that you are charging $150 plus per session to take care of all the overhead listed above?
> 
> This is exactly what I'm talking about.  I'm not trying to discourage anyone.  I'm just saying to do things the right way or you will simply set yourself up for a short term failure.    If you don't do it right, you will spend your life running to and fro, wearing your equipment out, and making less than minimun wages for all your effort.
> 
> ...



Actually, if you read my other posts you would know that I do in fact have liability insurance (and that I'm paying too much for it, apparently).   I just recently moved out of the house and into a studio in Downtown Topeka.  I did, in fact, write up a business plan (actually, I paid someone to help me write it).  I do have an accountant who takes care of my taxes.   And this is not my first business.  So you need to not make assumptions.

And no, I do not charge $150 per session... I charge $99 for an in-studio session and the clients gets NOTHING for that, other than my time.  They have to buy a CD with 10 low-res images and buy all prints from me.  In fact, when I upsell clients into larger packages, I often discount the session fee to nothing.  I'm making enough profit on $1000+ worth of prints to waive the $99 in-studio fee.

So, you wanna get off your high horse now?  You don't have to be an uninformed ass to get your point across.


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## shootermcgavin (Oct 7, 2011)

bennielou said:


> shootermcgavin said:
> 
> 
> > bennielou said:
> ...


Ah sorry, I wasn't thinking you meant sales taxes.  There are definetely ways around sales taxes as most of the photography business is a service.  I am unique in that I have many LLC's because some of my businesses deal with extreme liability exposure, so you would find a shadow corporation.   I meant more the common rule of thumb is that a business loses money their first 2 years and should think about showing profits their third.  But I don't consider photography a business personally more of a business write off.  I believe in any hobby becoming a business if only just for the tax write offs.


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## bennielou (Oct 7, 2011)

shootermcgavin said:


> bennielou said:
> 
> 
> > shootermcgavin said:
> ...



Nice.  Yet another photog who sees all this "legal stuff and taxes" as unnessary.  
And BTW, with all your LLCs, I would assume that you would know that you can't have a business "write off" until it's actually a real tax paying, money losing, legal set up business.

Brilliant business people here.....  Carry on.


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## spacefuzz (Oct 7, 2011)

shootermcgavin said:


> You make it sound like what you're talking about is difficult. Liability insurance is cheap cheap, an LLC is formed in 10 minutes online for $130 in my state. You shouldn't worry about paying taxes until your third year if you do things right. If you're really business savy taxes should almost be non-existent.



Lucky your llc is only $130.  In CA they charge $5000.  I was floored


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## bennielou (Oct 7, 2011)

spacefuzz said:


> shootermcgavin said:
> 
> 
> > You make it sound like what you're talking about is difficult. Liability insurance is cheap cheap, an LLC is formed in 10 minutes online for $130 in my state. You shouldn't worry about paying taxes until your third year if you do things right. If you're really business savy taxes should almost be non-existent.
> ...



Wow, Spacefuzz that seems super crazy high.  I did my dba at the county.  I think I paid something like $45 bucks.

More on LLC taxes:
he election to be taxed as the new entity will be in effect on the date the LLC 
enters on line 8 of Form 8832.  However, if the LLC does not enter a date, the 
election will be in effect as of the form&#8217;s filing date.  The election cannot 
take place more than 75 days prior to the date that the LLC files Form 8832 and 
the LLC cannot make the election effective for a date that is more than 12 
months after it files Form 8832. However, if the election is the &#8220;initial 
classification election,&#8221; and not a request to change the entity classification, 
there is relief available for a late election (more than 75 days before the 
filing of the Form 8832).


The amount of loss you can deduct may be limited because of your limited 
liability for LLC debts.

Passive Activity Loss limitation may restrict the amount of loss you can 
deduct.

And this from the LLC made easy site:
The wholesaler's "proof" of this is to keep a copy of your "Sales Tax ID number" on file, so that they are not liable for the tax on the products shipped to your customers.    Your "Sales Tax ID number" proves that YOU are collecting sales tax on your customers' purchases. In general, you only collect sales tax on the products shipped to addresses in the state where your business resides, but you should check to be sure how this is done in your own state.
*Every state has a web site listing information about the tax rules in that state, and where you can obtain your "Sales Tax ID number*". Click on your home state below to go to that site, and get the information you need


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## shootermcgavin (Oct 7, 2011)

bennielou said:


> shootermcgavin said:
> 
> 
> > bennielou said:
> ...


 That's about the most innacurate business statement I've heard.  I just started ABC Business Company.... and that's a legal company now, it's that easy!  You can write off taxes at anytime on a business you tell the government about and you only  have to tell them when you file your taxes.  You can not pay a dime in taxes and still write off money on a business, not sure where you're getting your information.  Any good accountant will tell you with a new business it's best to show losses the first 2 years.  I think you're over complicating setting up a business, you can go to your bank and create 1000 DBAs tomorrow and although they might not like you anymore they certainly aren't going to tell you it's not legal.


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## spacefuzz (Oct 7, 2011)

Hmm my accountant told me that if I showed massive losses my first two years it was just asking to get audited by the IRS. 

And yes $5000 for an LLC in California. PER YEAR.  Its crazy.  I paid $120 in Ohio and was quite shocked when I tried to transfer it over. As a result I switched to a sole proprietorship.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Oct 7, 2011)

My accountant told me to not worry about taxes the first 3 years, that I'll probably be getting money back. That's bull****. Surprise! I had to pull nearly a third of my income outta my ass to pay my taxes, because of that rather common school of thought.


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## shootermcgavin (Oct 7, 2011)

1/3 Bitter?  I think it's time to get a new accountant.  I've never paid more than 10% in my life even when I made over 6 figures and worked for someone.  33% is an extremely high income tax.  If you're making a ton of money your first 2 years then yeah of course you will have to show some as profits, but unless you're making 200k or more a year what is the major worry of going too high than too low?  They say naughty naughty you have to pay a couple thousand more?  I'd rather have that happen then leave a couple thousand extra on the table.


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## bentcountershaft (Oct 7, 2011)

What state are you in, Shooter?


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## shootermcgavin (Oct 7, 2011)

WI, but lived in FL a lot, nice not having state income tax.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Oct 7, 2011)

spacefuzz said:


> shootermcgavin said:
> 
> 
> > You make it sound like what you're talking about is difficult. Liability insurance is cheap cheap, an LLC is formed in 10 minutes online for $130 in my state. You shouldn't worry about paying taxes until your third year if you do things right. If you're really business savy taxes should almost be non-existent.
> ...



Liberal taxaholic state.


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## bentcountershaft (Oct 7, 2011)

Shooter:  I lived in Florida for a short while.  No state tax was nice but milk was $5 per gallon and that was almost twenty years ago.

Spacefuzz:  That seems like an extortionate amount.  The fees listed on your Sec. of State's site are only $70.


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## shootermcgavin (Oct 7, 2011)

bentcountershaft said:


> Shooter:  I lived in Florida for a short while.  No state tax was nice but milk was $5 per gallon and that was almost twenty years ago.Spacefuzz:  That seems like an extortionate amount.  The fees listed on your Sec. of State's site are only $70.


Well the lawyer has to make something, come on have a heart!


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## Bitter Jeweler (Oct 7, 2011)

shootermcgavin said:


> 1/3 Bitter?  I think it's time to get a new accountant.  I've never paid more than 10% in my life even when I made over 6 figures and worked for someone.  33% is an extremely high income tax.  If you're making a ton of money your first 2 years then yeah of course you will have to show some as profits, but unless you're making 200k or more a year what is the major worry of going too high than too low?  They say naughty naughty you have to pay a couple thousand more?  I'd rather have that happen then leave a couple thousand extra on the table.



I won't get into details, but yes, I will be getting a new accountant, and yes, I was _quite_ successful in my first year, and figures continue to rise.

But that advice is still the worst to give, *ever*.
You should _always_ save for, and *be prepared *to pay. Always.

It becomes a burden when you now owe past tax liability, AND have to save for next years tax liability.

So please, don't ever pass on that advice!


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## 2WheelPhoto (Oct 7, 2011)

bentcountershaft said:


> Shooter:  I lived in Florida for a short while.  No state tax was nice *but milk was $5 per gallon and that was almost twenty years ago*.
> 
> Spacefuzz:  That seems like an extortionate amount.  The fees listed on your Sec. of State's site are only $70.



Milk isn't $5 a gallon now!? I can buy a gallon of real brand name coffee creamer for less than that in FL.


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## bentcountershaft (Oct 7, 2011)

Maybe it just seemed like $5 at the time.  It was double what I paid up here at the time, that much I'm sure of.  Actually, it was probably cigarettes that were $5 back then when they were $2 here.


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## KmH (Oct 7, 2011)

It's likely just a matter of time before the tax guys catch up with one of the posters in this thread.

When they do, it's going to hurt the bank account really bad, and lifer Bubba is going to have a new wife.


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## shootermcgavin (Oct 7, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> shootermcgavin said:
> 
> 
> > 1/3 Bitter?  I think it's time to get a new accountant.  I've never paid more than 10% in my life even when I made over 6 figures and worked for someone.  33% is an extremely high income tax.  If you're making a ton of money your first 2 years then yeah of course you will have to show some as profits, but unless you're making 200k or more a year what is the major worry of going too high than too low?  They say naughty naughty you have to pay a couple thousand more?  I'd rather have that happen then leave a couple thousand extra on the table.
> ...


I never said don't save, I just said don't give the money you save to uncle sam.  Every situation is different, so let me rephrase, in the first 2 years don't hold back on deductions.  If you're wondering if the trip to Hawaii you took some photos on is a deductable item, well you took photos didn't you?  Congrats on a successful first year Bitter, I may not know much but one thing I know for sure photography as a business is not easy.


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## KmH (Oct 7, 2011)

Bitter makes custom jewlery.


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## dnavarrojr (Oct 8, 2011)

KmH said:


> It's likely just a matter of time before the tax guys catch up with one of the posters in this thread.
> 
> When they do, it's going to hurt the bank account really bad, and lifer Bubba is going to have a new wife.



Man, if there was ONE piece of business advice I could give everyone, it's GET YOURSELF AN ACCOUNTANT AND PAY YOUR TAXES.  I lived through that as a child, my dad owned a chain of restaurants and lost everything (and I mean everything) to the IRS because he didn't pay his taxes.  

When I started my first business, I got an accountant and NEVER had any issues with taxes.  After what happened when I was a kid, I swore I'd never own a business and attempt to do my own tax paperwork. And then I married my second wife who convinced me she could handle the paperwork when we started a business together.  Long story short, she was wrong and I was an idiot for listening to her.  The IRS nailed our asses to the wall.  We lost our home and business in hurricane Charlie and she divorced me when I took our insurance check and used it to (almost) pay off the IRS. I finally got all my credit problems straightened out last year and you can bet your sweet ass that I have an accountant.  And a separate savings account for my taxes that does not get touched, except to pay those taxes. And DON'T BELIEVE that crap on TV about the IRS settling for 1/4th of what you owe, it's a crock.


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## PhotoNewbie2011 (Oct 9, 2011)

I must say being new to starting out a photography business seems complicated but the advice I am getting from this forum is amazing! I am in the process of registering my dba company name. Also, I am starting to build a portfolio for clients to see my work. I have started writing my business plan and I am attending several seminars about running a small business.  I am looking to start getting off the ground with advertising and taking bookings in Spring of 2012. I understand that getting a business started is about being a good business manager as well as knowing how to take the pretty pictures. I am wondering is it better to have a backup camera when first starting out or should you start with one and wait until you grow more before purchasing additional equipment?


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## tirediron (Oct 9, 2011)

PhotoNewbie2011 said:


> ...I am wondering is it better to have a backup camera when first starting out or should you start with one and wait until you grow more before purchasing additional equipment?


A set of back up gear is essential.  How is your first booking going to go if that's the day your only body decides to crap out?  Remember, when equipment gives out, it almost invariably does so at the worst possible time.


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## PhotoNewbie2011 (Oct 9, 2011)

tirediron said:


> PhotoNewbie2011 said:
> 
> 
> > ...I am wondering is it better to have a backup camera when first starting out or should you start with one and wait until you grow more before purchasing additional equipment?
> ...



That is an excellent. I am currently using a Ti2 from Canon. What would an adequate backup to use for a less expensive option so I'm not putting too much on equipment to start? I've been looking at a Ti1 but that is also a little higher in the price bracket than I want to spend with just starting out. Any ideas?


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## psaracino (Oct 9, 2011)

You can also put up free local istings on google, bing and yahoo


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## shootermcgavin (Oct 9, 2011)

PhotoNewbie2011 said:


> I must say being new to starting out a photography business seems complicated but the advice I am getting from this forum is amazing! I am in the process of registering my dba company name. Also, I am starting to build a portfolio for clients to see my work. I have started writing my business plan and I am attending several seminars about running a small business.  I am looking to start getting off the ground with advertising and taking bookings in Spring of 2012. I understand that getting a business started is about being a good business manager as well as knowing how to take the pretty pictures. I am wondering is it better to have a backup camera when first starting out or should you start with one and wait until you grow more before purchasing additional equipment?


 I think it depends on what you plan to do.  With weddings you pretty much have to have a back up everything.  But if you're not doing weddings I think a back up cam is a waste of money at first.  Unless your store is miles away it takes all of 30 minutes to run and get another camera, I think if it's a normal portrait they will understand.  Although the flip side is 2 cameras also means 2 lenses ready to rock no time changing so you can flip from head shot to full body with primes, there's a lot of ways to skin a cat.


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## JAC526 (Oct 9, 2011)

Remember the two life certainties:

1.  Death.

2.  Taxes.

On that positive note...good luck.


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## PhotoNewbie2011 (Oct 10, 2011)

Thank you. I would like to do weddings but I'm sure that I should probably get my feet wet before diving into the deep end.


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## JACC0811 (Oct 10, 2011)

Very good info in this thread! I saw my dad lose his butt in the construction industry because of some bad tax advise, and I don't want to make his mistakes. So, I've seen small businesses from all angles and have decided to go back to school for a B.A. in Business Management. I might actually try to keep going for a Masters, as I better my photog biz. I think that's more important than going to a school for the photography side of the business, honestly.


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