# No Sales



## stevewalton (Nov 8, 2006)

Can anyone please advise me on why i have made no sales on my website. Because i have a sub-domain the search engines dont seem to be picking up the site, but i am on several photography link directories and have had over 2000 unique visitors.
I have incorporated a digital image store so that visitors can download the images themselves, to make the site automatic.
Thanks,
Steve.

http://www.blackhole-storage.net/steve


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## dewey (Nov 8, 2006)

Please don't take this the wrong way - but I think if you expect to build a photo website and generate traffic and then wait for sales you're in for a long wait.  It's just not that easy.  you have to put yourself in the shoes of the visitors on your site - why would they buy the image from you?  What value are you providing them?

You need a hook.

I have made a cold website sale or two but for the most part my website has just been a tool for sales after a show or after someone sees my photo somewhere else.

I'd keep up the work but don't get frustrated - it's not a "build it and they will buy" market in our business... you have to hustle 


Dewey


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## toastydeath (Nov 8, 2006)

I've got a couple bits of advice.  Some of it is original, some of it is gleaned from other posts around here.  

Additionally, please take this as "best intention" advice.  If anything sounds harsh, believe me, I didn't mean it that way and certainly don't want you to take it personally.

Firstly, your webpage does not adhere to what people consider "professional standards."  It's a decent amateur website, and that's where it stops.  You're going to lose customers who would contact you by doing this - people who buy a particular of good on a webpages, for the most part, are more forgiving than people who want you to come out to do work.  So, you really need to tune your webpage up and start using some of the conventions.

Second, you've displayed a very narrow, very popular (for photographers) set of photos up on your page.  Nature macros, and landscape kind of stuff.  Despite each individual picture being a "good picture," I don't find any that simply make me stop and say, "Wow."  That, however, could largely be a bias of mine.  I don't take nature or landscape photos.  

For people to buy a picture, indeed, any art, it needs to speak to them.  And I don't mean in a pretentious, "I am using sheer abstraction and form to evoke the fundamental primordia in each of us" sense.  While butterflies on flowers are beautiful (and you have done an excellent job of capturing that), the subject does not lend to stirring emotions in people.  Yes, it is possible to do so.  But I don't see any of _you_ in these pictures.  I see a butterfly on a flower.  Neat, but it doesn't make me stop and inspect the picture, and wonder what you saw.  I don't see what you saw in your mind's eye, I just see the butterfly.

I go back to a particular photographer over and over because the photographer is producing more than a picture; I see something of the photographer themselves in the pictures.  I can see how he (or she) feels about the subject, and gain an insight about the subject a normal "picture" doesn't show.  When you put a photograph up for sale, are you selling the subject, or are you selling something more?

In that regard, if you truly are selling something more, you may want to charge (a lot) more and only sell framed prints.  Several of the excellent photographers on here who are actually selling pictures sell them at a pretty penny, and framed.  There are plenty of threads about pricing something too cheap, and people feel they are not paying "for art."  Would you buy a car for $100?  Probably not, if you wanted something you thought would last.

Onward.

Viewed as a set, there is little to differentiate one picture from the next in terms of composition and lighting.  There are a few exceptions, but nothing bold and different from anything else in the set.  This may tie in to my previous point, but it may not - it depends on why each photo was done the way it was.  More importantly, I think this may bar you from work.  By displaying a wider variety of composition (and subjects), you will appeal to a larger base of people who may be looking for a photographer, and a larger base of people looking for art.


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## fmw (Nov 8, 2006)

I make my living in the E-commerce business. I have one website that is now 8 years old and is in the top 50,000 web sites on the internet (there are millions of them.) It gets about 3500 distinct visitors per day. Why? The main reason is that it is 8 years old and there are links to that site from 30,000 other sites. That makes it more important to search engine spiders than your site so it gets a higher "page rank." There are separate pages designed just for search engines for each of the 5000 odd products we sell. So when the spiders index the site, they are indexing about 5000 pages, each designed to respond to a particular search string. So if someone hits the search string, we're number one in the listings.

You don't just put up a web site and assume the search engines will make you successful. You certainly don't put one up without a dedicated domain.  There is much work to be done and much money to be spent. 10 years ago you could do what you did and perhaps have some success. Today, you haven't even scratched the surface. I'm pretty sure it's about impossible to get a new site very productive on the internet without spending a minimum of a quarter million dollars on it. The old days are long gone. Sorry, but that's the reality of it.


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## mysteryscribe (Nov 8, 2006)

Well I know very little about e commerce but I think a web site needs more than the web. I think it is a greatwasy to use a couple of lines somewhere else to send people to see what you do. IE the yellow pages to send them to your website... On your business cards so people you meet can see. On a card you hand out at a festival, so people can again see what you do.

The other things I think is the web is a great place to post shots you have taken of people and hope they will later buy, but you have to get the people there independantly. I'm not sure this opinion is popular but it's just what I think of the web now.

My son in law has a very nice website. He does bridal shows, he has yellow page ads in three different cities, all directing potential customers to his site. That's just my thinking.


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## Kammy (Nov 9, 2006)

Hi Steve,

First, you need to decide the purpose for your site. Is it to be an online catalog (an e-commerce) site to sell images, or a professional site selling you as a photographer?

Second, whether an ad, brochure, website, or sales letter -- your marketing materials absolutely MUST be about your target audience, not about you. People don't care what you've done. They care about what you or your products can do for them. The only place "I" should have in your copy is when you're discussing your track record to build credibility with the reader.

Third, you need sales messages. Nice photos all by themselves won't sell. You've got to let people know why they should buy a butterfly photo from you, instead one of the gazillion other nature photographers out there. 

Fourth, look around at some other websites selling images to get a feel for the tone they convey. As was mentioned earlier, your current site doesn't have the professional edge it needs to be taken seriously.

Fifth, you need an easy, streamlined order page that contains additional sales copy to prompt people to action -- make the purchase. 

Sixth, combine your website with offline marketing. Develop offers for postcards, sales letters, ads, etc. that drive people to your site to purchase. To do this well, you'll need to define your target audience, and write the sales messages to them. Don't try to be all-in-all. If you try to sell to everybody, your messages will be too generic and you'll end up selling to nobody.

Once people visit your site, you need to capture their e-mails and pull them into a communication loop. People rarely purchase from a website the first time they visit. Set up a follow-up program to stay in touch with them after that first visit. This increases sales from websites 70-90%.

This should give you a good place to start. I'll look forward to viewing your new site.

Kammy
sales writer ~ graphic designer ~ creative strategist
www.anchorcreative.com


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## oldnavy170 (Nov 9, 2006)

fmw said:
			
		

> I make my living in the E-commerce business. I have one website that is now 8 years old and is in the top 50,000 web sites on the internet (there are millions of them.) It gets about 3500 distinct visitors per day. Why? The main reason is that it is 8 years old and there are links to that site from 30,000 other sites. That makes it more important to search engine spiders than your site so it gets a higher "page rank." There are separate pages designed just for search engines for each of the 5000 odd products we sell. So when the spiders index the site, they are indexing about 5000 pages, each designed to respond to a particular search string. So if someone hits the search string, we're number one in the listings.
> 
> You don't just put up a web site and assume the search engines will make you successful. You certainly don't put one up without a dedicated domain. There is much work to be done and much money to be spent. 10 years ago you could do what you did and perhaps have some success. Today, you haven't even scratched the surface. I'm pretty sure it's about impossible to get a new site very productive on the internet without spending a minimum of a quarter million dollars on it. The old days are long gone. Sorry, but that's the reality of it.


 
I watched a History Channel show about the Founders of Google.com.  They talked about this search engine spider.  One thing that they did mention is to use keywords that someone might use in a search engine.  The more "keywords" you use in your website the more likely you are going to move higher up in a search engine.

Anyways, I just thought it was interesting that you brought this up because it made me think of that show.  It was extremely interesting to watch (and learn).


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## darich (Nov 10, 2006)

The way i sell shots is to imagine if i'd buy it....would i hang it on my wall.....if i wouldn't then why would someone else??

All the shots are good but I can't imagine hanging any in my house unless i was a real butterfly or flower enthusiast.....straight away the market has been drastically reduced.

i think you're more likely to have success with those particular shots in an image library where they may be used in reference books garden centre websites.


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## Swiss (Nov 11, 2006)

Work with an agency, that might help. There are many out there, even online agencies, and often, you can have your profile on their sites as well. And it's true, the more professional your website looks (URL and design), the more professional people think you are. So don't try to save too much money by not buying a regular URL or not having someone help you with the design. You will surely get more hits if you invest some time and money there, not only because your website shows up on Google but also, because people like it and link to it.


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## benhasajeep (Nov 13, 2006)

I think the biggest drawback to your site is the way your selling the pictures.  Your are selling digital files.  Most people who print at home, have their own camera.  In which case they can just go out and take their own photos.

I really think you need to add "prints" to your sales.  Say offer the file, and then a price range for different print sizes.  You have to remember you are competing with every store to sell people pictures.  Why should a person come to your site to buy a print and then either print at home, buy a frame.  Or take to a processor pay for a print, and buy a frame.  When they can most likely buy a completed picture at the same store or one close by?

My next advice is your copyright.  You don't list any rules for the photos.  Just that they are copyrighted!  There is very little protection for you.  Someone could buy a file.  And take it to another site that sells them for a .01.  And they can do that legeally as you have put no use limits on the purchase of the file.  They can argue that you sold them the file with no limits to use!!

And last, the blue color of the web page on every picture.  It is very distracting on a few of the pictures.  Maybe pick a more neutral color.

You have very good pictures.  Presentation can definatley be improved.
Just remember there are hundreds of millions of photos for sale on the web.  You are competing with every one of them.


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## freddyv33 (Nov 13, 2006)

stevewalton said:
			
		

> Can anyone please advise me on why i have made no sales on my website. Because i have a sub-domain the search engines dont seem to be picking up the site, but i am on several photography link directories and have had over 2000 unique visitors.
> I have incorporated a digital image store so that visitors can download the images themselves, to make the site automatic.
> Thanks,
> Steve.
> ...


 
One of the simplest things you can do is trade links. Set up a links page that is one click from your home page and then add links to other photography related sites that link to yours.

One of the rules of this is that you put up a link and then ask the other guy for one.

My links page is at 
http://www.picturesof.net/links.html
and is still a little bare but I have been concentrating on getting listings in web directories. I am willing to trade links so let me know if you are interested.

I can tell you this method works because I built my stock photography agency, http://www.acclaimimages.com, on this principle and it gets nearly 100,000 visitors a days because of this linking strategy.

BTW, it takes a lot of people to make one sale. If you are charging high prices, which you should if you're selling just your own photos, then you should expect to make a sale once every several thousand visitors.

Fred Voetsch


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## NJMAN (Nov 13, 2006)

Never underestimate the power of referrals!  Get your family and friends to sing their praises about you and pass on your web address to other people they know, and so on and so on.  Then you all have someone to talk about when you make a sale...  .  

Also, your website needs a good backbone.  By that, I mean have a consistent look and feel to all your pages that says it is your site.  That may take a little more design work on your part in photoshop and dreamweaver to come up with a professional look to your site.  However, I think your images are absolutely stunning!  So, they deserve a good website to be viewed on.  Dont give up!


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## DocFrankenstein (Nov 13, 2006)

What does you wife say about your business idea?


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## cyberdyke (Nov 15, 2006)

toastydeath said:
			
		

> Firstly, your webpage does not adhere to what people consider "professional standards."  It's a decent amateur website, and that's where it stops.  You're going to lose customers who would contact you by doing this - people who buy a particular of good on a webpages, for the most part, are more forgiving than people who want you to come out to do work.  So, you really need to tune your webpage up and start using some of the conventions.
> 
> 
> Would you please elaborate on what you mean here "professional standards."
> ...


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## DocFrankenstein (Nov 15, 2006)

cyberdyke said:
			
		

> Would you please elaborate on what you mean here "professional standards."


When the pictures look like snapshots with no idea of composition, lighting, technique... or even exposure. 

Like most sites.


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## toastydeath (Nov 15, 2006)

cyberdyke said:
			
		

> Would you please elaborate on what you mean here "professional standards."
> 
> thanks
> J
> http://www.redhawkphoto.com



Sure.  While DocFrankenstein bluntly nailed the image composition complaints I had, I really didn't elaborate on specific website critique.  I felt the critique of the product was necessary before the delivery mechanism.  

But since you ask...

Professional standard:  What would you expect for $10k (USD) per page?  Because that's what businesses pay, base price, for top-quality websites.  It goes up from there depending on how complicated the website needs to be or what it's for (people to maintain it, etc).  As was mentioned earlier in this thread, this does  NOT account for the hundreds of thousands of dollars that need to be invested to get legitimate traffic.  There are a bunch of user interface considerations and aesthetic elements that MUST be considered from a psychology standpoint in order to create a sense of trust and honesty with the people browsing a website.  There are tons of papers and studies on this, and I won't go into that aspect of things.  Good textbooks on web design and development will have it in spades, and I suggest your local public or college library.

Specific non-professionalism on the page in question:

It's written in a very informal tone.  This presents the things being sold as amateur work, as the person doesn't appear to have the seriousness required to pitch themselves.  This presentation style does not consider what the person wants from the service being sold, but instead pitches it from the viewpoint of the person selling the service.  This is not a good way to sell something.

The background color is inappropriate and is in the same intensity ballpark as the white text AND the picture colors.  The pictures have a wide variety of reds and oranges, and this contrasts very strongly against the stark blue background.  The layout, in general, looks like it was done by someone just learning HTML.  Looking at the page source itself appears to confirm this.  

There are only 5 or so menu sections, and a gigantic title graphic that takes up a large amount of space (it draws the eye away from everything else, including the minuscule menu by comparison).  One whole page is dedicated to a one-line copyright statement, and the contact information is a direct link to e-mail.  E-mail is great, but businesses expect to be able to contact you via phone, and possibly send you letters in real life.  This is common inter-business peeve (that I have unfortunately experienced all too often), and you don't want to **** the person off who wants to contact and buy stuff or services from you.

"Buy Image" is an awkward menu item to read, as it reminds me of a lemonade stand I once tried running as a kid.  The gallery and "buy image" section are separated for no apparent reason.  All the pictures in the gallery are on the "buy image" page.  You have to find and view the image on the gallery, then find the image again on the buy page.  You can't just browse and buy, because the buy page doesn't allow you to blow the image up.  Even worse, the buy page is substantially different from any other part of the website.

Even worse than that, it's offered as low-cost commodity data file.  No apparent print service, no prompt shipping, just some JPGs on a website for some money.  I would expect to see a large, nice page about each picture. What print sizes are available, the framing available, the purchase option, and even a link to the contact page for additional questions or custom requests.  For each picture.  Let me say that again:  A specific webpage for each picture.

Realistically, that means developing a database and a webpage fronted capable of delivering that.  

These items seem like nitpicking to people outside computer science and web development/internet commerce, but they seriously affect how a person viewing a page interprets the information conveyed to them.  It's like walking into a shady pawnshop versus a high-end art gallery.

This was mentioned before:  You can't just learn some basic HTML and expect to put up a good commercial webpage.  That was the state of affairs back at the beginning of the internet boom, and we've moved so far past that, amateurs can no longer compete.  You need to spend serious time learning the visual standards used, as well as the programming languages and database packages available in order to even DREAM of running a successful webpage.


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## NJMAN (Nov 15, 2006)

toastydeath said:
			
		

> Professional standard: What would you expect for $10k (USD) per page? Because that's what businesses pay, base price, for top-quality websites. It goes up from there depending on how complicated the website needs to be or what it's for (people to maintain it, etc). As was mentioned earlier in this thread, this does NOT account for the hundreds of thousands of dollars that need to be invested to get legitimate traffic. There are a bunch of user interface considerations and aesthetic elements that MUST be considered from a psychology standpoint in order to create a sense of trust and honesty with the people browsing a website. There are tons of papers and studies on this, and I won't go into that aspect of things. Good textbooks on web design and development will have it in spades, and I suggest your local public or college library.


 
It doesnt need to go this far to get a decent commercial website up and running.  I wrote all my own code with HTML, CSS, Javascript, and ASP without any formal education in any of it.  I was eager to learn and just kept experimenting bit by bit until I got what I wanted (or more importantly, what the customer wanted).  And my site is always a work in progress as I refine the details and pick up tips here and there all the time.  

Or you can hire a talented starving college student to do a professional site for you for a fraction of what it costs to have the big dogs do it.  Some of them are quite eager to show off their abilities, and also make a little cash on the side. Do some networking with your local colleges or community college/tech schools, and see what you find.


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## DocFrankenstein (Nov 16, 2006)

NJMAN said:
			
		

> It doesnt need to go this far to get a decent commercial website up and running. I wrote all my own code with HTML, CSS, Javascript, and ASP without any formal education in any of it. I was eager to learn and just kept experimenting bit by bit until I got what I wanted (or more importantly, what the customer wanted). And my site is always a work in progress as I refine the details and pick up tips here and there all the time.
> 
> Or you can hire a talented starving college student to do a professional site for you for a fraction of what it costs to have the big dogs do it. Some of them are quite eager to show off their abilities, and also make a little cash on the side. Do some networking with your local colleges or community college/tech schools, and see what you find.


Without a link to your website, it doesn't really say much.

Webdesign is a huge field - if you want to set up a database for the pictures and a selling mechanism, with a unique look to the whole thing - it ain't easy.

Again - let me know if you have a sample.


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## toastydeath (Nov 16, 2006)

NJMAN said:
			
		

> It doesnt need to go this far to get a decent commercial website up and running.  I wrote all my own code with HTML, CSS, Javascript, and ASP without any formal education in any of it.  I was eager to learn and just kept experimenting bit by bit until I got what I wanted (or more importantly, what the customer wanted).  And my site is always a work in progress as I refine the details and pick up tips here and there all the time.
> 
> Or you can hire a talented starving college student to do a professional site for you for a fraction of what it costs to have the big dogs do it.  Some of them are quite eager to show off their abilities, and also make a little cash on the side. Do some networking with your local colleges or community college/tech schools, and see what you find.



I've worked in IT for several years in production shops, despite my young age.  I've also come out of a computer science college background, so please understand I'm coming from the field you've briefly dabbled in.

It all depends on how serious you are about your business.  Most amateur photographers building websites are not going all in on photography, like other small business owners are.  They're still amateurs.  They are not developing business plans and strategies, or considering advertising channels.  So in that sense, it doesn't matter what the person's website looks like, because none of the aspects of serious business are in place.  That, ultimately, is a bigger factor than any website.

If you pay a starving college student and become sucessful, it often winds up being 10K per page to the company when all is said and done in hidden manpower costs.  You'll eventually pay people to fix what they did wrong way down the line when your business has integrated the website tightly with the rest of it's process.  You won't even know it when they're fixing it.  They'll happily bill you as they go.

Business websites need to be coded and designed cleanly and professionally, unless you plan on junking both the codebase and database down the road and doing it over again.

A starving college student will get you a website that looks decent right now.  A large website, done poorly, will quickly become unmaintainable.  You get stuck with the initial website, and further changes are either made at great cost or not at all.


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## stevewalton (Nov 16, 2006)

Thanks for all your advice guys, i can see that i am going to have to invest a lot of time in my photographic technique and web design in order to make my site successful !
Steve.


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## markc (Nov 16, 2006)

I personally think it's a rare individual that can put together a good photography sales site as a solo project. I've been working with computers since the early 80's, got into web design before it was cool, and used to work for a company doing web database work. One thing I've learned is that the design process and the implementation of that design are two very different things. I've sold framed prints in a gallery, so I think I'm doing ok with the photography, and I've worked on some heavy projects for big companies, so I could implement the site easily, but for design.... Well, I'd want a graphic designer on my side. It's different from composing a photograph. My own website was easy enough for me, using a pre-built PHP app called Gallery that I modified some. But it's rather generic looking and wouldn't cut it for sales. If I wanted to go that route, I'd need a really good graphic designer to come up with something.

I used to work with a young lady that was brilliant in this area. The main thing was that she wasn't very familiar with web limitations, etc. Working together, we could come up with some great stuff, with her designing the look and me making sure that it would work. There are definitely people out there that can do both, but then how much photography experience do they have?

I'm not saying it's impossible, but that it's usually best to have outside input at the least. I think working with someone who has had experience is the way to go.


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## ironsidephoto (Nov 17, 2006)

i'm trying to get the same thing going with my site. i'm trying to make myself start learning some html and start using dreamweaver. . . i'm just now realizing how much effort it takes to get your name out there. this forum helped a lot!


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