# What kind of light bulbs should I use?



## Starlite

Ok so my light set arrived today, and I'm happy about that....  but it came with some generic looking Phillips light bulbs, of 100 watts.

I don't know what kind of light bulbs I need, nor how may watts.

Can someone help me out on this?

I've found a couple things on Ebay that looked interesting:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...MEWA:IT&viewitem=&item=110044359321&rd=1&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...MEWA:IT&viewitem=&item=110044861094&rd=1&rd=1



Can anyone educate me a little bit?  

Like on the first one, it says the bulb generates 120 watts of light at only 30 watts power, which generates less heat...    that sounds great, but I don't know how many watts I should be using, per light bulb.  I tried the 100 watt bulbs that came with my package, and when I tried using it with the silver umbrella, not very much light was being reflected back.

The soft white translucent umbrella, seemed to work better with that bulb.

What are these kind of bulbs CALLED anyways?  The ones that are generating more light wattage then the power wattage they use?

Can I buy these kind of bulbs at a local store?   Or are these specialized or professional type bulbs, that I can only find in a professional store?  (i live in LA, by the way)


thanks very much for reading this :hug::


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## Starlite

oh here is a link to the light set I bought:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...MEWN:IT&viewitem=&item=120042196041&rd=1&rd=1


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## Starlite

here is another listing of light bulbs that looks interesting:

http://cgi.ebay.com/4-ALZO-Daylight...ihZ018QQcategoryZ3860QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem


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## Torus34

Check the literature which came with your gear to find out the maximum recommended wattage.

Then check any of the major camera stores for ordinary incandescent bulbs of that wattage.  They come in wattages up to 500.  Pricing is reasonable.

If you're using a digital camera, don't forget to make the necessary light source adjustment.


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## W.Smith

Wouldn't halogen lights be an alternative? Doesn't generate as much heat as tungsten does in the proper fittings. And six times the power output, from the same power consumption, as I understand it. Continuous too.
WB can be custom measured and set. Or you can use the preset WB for fluorescent light many cameras have. If you shoot RAW you'll have even wider latitude to adjust later.
Any of you ever used halogen light in a studio?


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## Torus34

Halogen sounds like a good idea to explore.  I'm afraid I'm a bit 'old school' in the area of studio lighting.  I tend to rely on those things I know well -- sometimes to the exclusion of trying something newer and better.


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## Starlite

Check the literature that came with my digital camera?  Are there recommendations for specific wattage lights for different cameras?

I AM using a digital camera (HP Gateway 5 megapixel  until I upgrade), but what are the necessary light source adjustments?

Halogen light bulbs?   Any links so that I can check them out?   How are these better/different then fluorescent?


No comments/replies regarding the bulbs I posted above?  I was hoping to get some feedback from those who are experienced, about those light bulbs, and what bulbs are good for portrait shots.


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## Starlite

I did some further looking today, and I am noticing that bulbs above 125-150 watts, really jump up in price.

Can anyone tell me how many watts I should shoot for, and/or suggest the best places to shop for light bulbs?


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## Digital Matt

What types of things are you going to be shooting?  With continuous output lighting, you often end up with longish shutter speeds.  The output is no where near the intensity of flash.  If you are shooting still lifes, it's ok.  Mount the camera on a tripod and go for it.  For shooting portraits handholding at 1/30 and slower is not recommended.  Your models may not be able to hold still enough either.


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## blooper

for my studio shots, i use 500watt 120volt flood bulbs. they light my tiny room extraordinarily well. i also pop on a couple umbrellas to diffuse the light and walla(sp)! i shoot live models tho, so the heat that is generated from these bulbs can be irratating.

if youre shooting products, i think 250watt bulbs will be enough. since you dont have to worrying about singeing the hairs off their skin by moving the lamps closer, you can afford to locate the lamps close with lower wattage.

but if you are shooting live models, consider the temperatures.


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## Starlite

I'm looking to shoot live models - portrait type photos.

Do they make "cool" lights that have enough wattage that won't be as hot?  Is two lights of 250 watts enough, or do I need to think about 500 watts each?

Where do you suggest I shop for bulbs?


thx


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## Starlite

Digital Matt said:
			
		

> What types of things are you going to be shooting?  With continuous output lighting, you often end up with longish shutter speeds.  The output is no where near the intensity of flash.  If you are shooting still lifes, it's ok.  Mount the camera on a tripod and go for it.  For shooting portraits handholding at 1/30 and slower is not recommended.  Your models may not be able to hold still enough either.




May I ask you to elaborate just a little?  What do you mean I will often "end up" with longish shutter speeds?  Because the continuous lights don't have the output intensity of a flash?  How much wattage does a flash give off?  Can I come close?   

I'm puzzled tho, why I would "end up" with longish shutter speeds..   I mean, would I be setting the shutter speed myself, or would this be from the camera setting it automatically?   

I know I need to experiment/work more, to learn this, but if you could help out with any elaboration.......... 

:hail:


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## Big Mike

Continuous lights don't put out nearly as much light as strobe/flash does.  Therefore, you may need to have a longer shutter speed to get proper exposure...longer shutter speeds are not good for a)holding the camera and b)subjects that move (people etc.).

I'm not sure of the math...but I read a post on another site...where someone had calculated that a for a regular bulb to be as bright as a studio light...it would need to be something like 100,000 watts.  

Strobes are so bright...that they only need to be lit for a very small fraction of a second.


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## Starlite

hmmm, so why do they even HAVE continuous lights then?


You're making me think that I totally need to switch?


I mean, two 500 watt lights aren't going to be enough, that is what you are saying?

What would be the minimum, for decent portrait photos?


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## W.Smith

Starlite said:
			
		

> hmmm, so why do they even HAVE continuous lights then?


Continuous lights are useful for images of static subjects. From a tripod. With remote or timed shutter release. So still life really. Where longer shutter speeds don't matter so much.
Studio flash light sets usually have a continuous 'modeling light' built in. So that you can _see_ the relative effect of the light setup while you are setting it up. A flash is too short for our human eyes to interpret the lighting from.


> You're making me think that I totally need to switch?


Again, depending on what you want to shoot.


> I mean, two 500 watt lights aren't going to be enough, that is what you are saying?


Not for portraiture, it won't. Jewelry would be fine.


> What would be the minimum, for decent portrait photos?


I think that's measured in milliwatt seconds, but I'm not sure. Maybe one of the others can shed some light on that.


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## Digital Matt

Strobes are measured in watt seconds, yes.  The smallest monolight you'll find I think is a 400WS strobe.  That is plenty for studio portraiture.  You need more wattage when you start shooting groups, or going outdoors and lighting large areas.


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## Starlite

thanks for the help...


do y'all know anyplace where I can learn the basics of strobe lighting?

does it work with umbrellas (this is a total newbie question, I'm sure)?


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## Digital Matt

I'm sure your local library has several books on studio lighting.

You can also check out this site: http://www.studiolighting.net/

This is also an excellent book: [ame]http://www.amazon.com/Master-Lighting-Guide-Portrait-Photographers/dp/1584281251[/ame]


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## W.Smith

Starlite said:
			
		

> do y'all know anyplace where I can learn the basics of strobe lighting?



What Matt says.



> does it work with umbrellas (this is a total newbie question, I'm sure)?



Yes, and through them too. And with softboxes, snoots, barndoors, gels, pola gels, etc. etc.

However, since I don't have a fixed studio and (because I) spend more than 50% of my time on location, for mobility, I have a 'portable studio'. It basically consists of 3 wireless 5600D flashguns on tripods, a 3' and a 4' silver/white reflector. Gives me plenty 'oomph' and endlessly variable possibilities, including faking 'softboxes' and balancing shadows. Easily fits a medium-sized suitcase.
When working with people as subjects I mostly use the camera unsupported. Flash freezes motion anyway, and it keeps me much 'free-er' to move around, direct the scene, try different viewpoints and angles, and/or adjust the light.

I submit a 'portable studio' like mine is much more flexible than a fixed studio flash set and is therefore used much more often.
The downside is that you have no modelling light. But hey! this is the digital age so you just do a test shot and _look_ whether you like the light setup as is.


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## Big Mike

Here is a site with some good info on portraiture and flash.

There are many different brands of strobes and different ways to go about it.  W. Smith's set up, using smaller flash units is very portable.  Bigger units are more powerful but need more power so they need to be plugged in to an outlet or portable power source.

Alien Bee lights get at lot of attention on Internet forums.  They offer pretty good lights at a pretty good price.  The same company also makes a higher end brand, White Lighting.

I have one Alien Bee light and I think it's pretty good.  For now, I use that light along with smaller portable flash units...but I plan to get more studio lights.


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## Starlite

Thanks for the help...


Here is some information I found, while doing my research:

http://alzodigital.com/photo_guide/continuous_vs_flash.htm


thoughts or comments?


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## W.Smith

Starlite said:
			
		

> Here is some information I found, while doing my research:
> 
> http://alzodigital.com/photo_guide/continuous_vs_flash.htm
> 
> thoughts or comments?



Yes: they _sell_ continuous lighting there, so their 'information' is UNreliable _by definition_.


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## W.Smith

Matt and/or Mike,
how _about_ the color temp of those modelling lights? Surely those aren't 2800K, are they?

(anyway not an issue for my setup with flashguns).


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## Digital Matt

The modelling lights are standard tungsten bulbs.  They are just so you can get an idea of the shadow play.


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## Starlite

W.Smith said:
			
		

> Yes: they _sell_ continuous lighting there, so their 'information' is UNreliable _by definition_.




First off, they sell BOTH continuous lighting AND strobe lighting, so why must you assume "oh yeah they're just sayin that to sell you some stuff"?

I appreciate it if you are trying to help me, but that doesn't sound like help to me.  Did you checkout the link and what they said?   

I'm still trying to learn and do research, but I thought this forum was a good place for that.......

So far, I've got 3 dudes who are shooting down continuous lighting, but these opinions sound pretty biased and unobjective to me.

I'm just a newbie, and my mind is WIDE open, but just because I don't know about photography and lighting doesn't mean I am a dummy.

Is there anyone out there who can provide some opinions about strobe versus continuous lighting, and perhaps provide a little detail or reasoning if you are going to shoot down one method or the other?

I'm totally confused as to which direction to go in, and I would just like to get some help so that I can purchase some beginner equipment, in order to experiment and learn.


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## Starlite

and I'm sorry if I'm coming across unappreciative, but I'm a newbie, and I'm frustrated...


I would think that a forum such as this, would have a link to some basics regarding what kind of lighting for portrait shooting!

I mean, this is pretty much the basics right?   So why do I get the feeling that there is so much confusion and differeing views on the issue?   

I really do appreciate when someone takes the time to respond with their feedback, but I also don't want to just blindly follow someone's opinion, simply because I'm a beginner.  

I would like to be able to hear the basics about the issue (lighting), so that I can become informed, in order to make a decision.


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## Big Mike

Maybe getting some good books and or taking a class would be a better learning tool for you.

There are some things that are easy to teach/learn in a forum type setting...and there are some things that are not so easy.  

There are plenty of instructional type sites around (which aren't trying to sell you something)...I'm thinking that you might benefit more from doing some reading on those types of sites.  

If you have more specific questions, that's where a forum can come in very handy.


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## Starlite

Any good links to those instructional sites?


I mean, what kind of lighting to use should be like one of the most basic issues discussed, so it just puzzles me why I get so many mixed messages...

and if it is something that can't be explained on a post for whatever reason, then why would there not be a link to that information somewhere on this site?

I mean, when a forum says "BEGINNERS Place", a person is going to think this is a place to come to ask a question when they are a beginner.

If those of you who are the veterans or the admin staff aren't able to provide info to a very BASIC question, then why wouldn't you at least have a certain link or article posted somewhere??


Am I really asking for too much, when I ask "what kind of lighting should I use"?

Is that a question I shouldn't bring up in a forum?

Yes, I know that there is a library with books on the subject - thank you!   but if I wanted to go down to the library to read an entire book on the subject, then I guess I wouldn't need to come to a forum at all then!!!

The whole purpose of a forum is to help people out with the basics of a certain topic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This isn't the first forum I've ever posted....

but it IS the first forum I've ever posted, where I can't get a straight answer on some BASIC information.


and I'm sorry, but it's really frustrated me.


In other forums I post on, where I know the topic really well, it isn't anything for me to explain or provide the basics for those who are newbies.


Maybe I'm missing something..


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## Wolff

You may not be getting the answers you want because you are looking for a very simple, one line answer for a very complicated issue. Different photographers like useing different lighting. If you already have the continuous lighting kit you should try it out. Get some 500 Watt flood bulbs and find a model to take test shots. If you don't get the look you want, then move on the the strobe. I have used continuous lighting for a while now for portraits and get pretty good results. In addition to using the lights I also use my camera's flash to give me that little bit extra fill.


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## Starlite

Hi Wolff, and thanks for the feedback.

So you are using continuous lighting and it is working pretty well for you.  It's good to hear another side of this issue.

Previously, I was being told flatly, that unless I used strobe lighting, it wouldn't work.

Now I am not looking for a "very simple" or "one word" answer....   no not at all.  What I am looking for is some basic feedback/information, so that I can proceed, by getting some lighting.



On a side note, may I ask you a question about using your camera's flash?  When I've tried using my camera's flash (and also on other cameras), it may times makes the person seem overly pale.


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## benhasajeep

First off, those ebay bulbs you first listed are a rip off!!  Anyone reading this stay away.  Just a person preying on someone uninformed.  They are nothing but cheap floruscent house lamp bulbs that are over price due to the shipping.  I bought similar bulbs for my house 4 years ago for $.49 each at a local "cheap" store.  You can buy like 3 packs for $10 to $15 at any home store.  And thats a rip off.  My $.49 ones have lasted 4 years now with not one going bad yet.  

Now for cheap studio lights.  You can use 100 watt bulbs but you will need a few of them.  I would go with at least 250watt bulbs.  You can use diffenent bulbs in your lights, but dont put the 250 - 500 watt bulbs in to them on their own.  They most likely have a plastic bulb holder and it will melt (inside contact is metal but outside is plastic).  For a couple bucks they make ceramic adapters that will insulate the cheaper light sockets.

Other than electricity cost, the big disadvantage to using studio lights (flood) is they are hot / give off lots of heat.  So the model will get hot / may sweat.  You may need a fan to two.

As for what type of light.  With digital cameras / software that is not biggie now a days.  You can balance the light after taking the pics if the camera does not allow you to with a setting.  Just make sure the shape of the bulb fits the lamp housing without touching or too close to anything that may melt or burn.  If you do have plastic socket make sure you have ceramic insulator before using a bigger bulb.  Most lamps have a sticker or a note right on it somewhere saying something like 100w max.  The ceramic insulators will allow you to use a larger capacity lamp.


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## Big Mike

Here is an interesting 'article' that I read on another site.  From what I have seen, this guy knows his stuff...so I have no reason to doubt it.



> The local chapter of the Measurbator's Anonymous called a special meeting to determine quantitative answers to a few questions regarding continuous vs. strobe lighting in recent threads, namely this thread by FlyingPete and this thread by shedsomelight.
> 
> We decided to compare the AlienBees B800 studio flash unit, a popular, reasonably priced and relatively low powered studio strobe, with a pair of 500 watt halogen shop lights such as you might find in hardware stores and home centers.
> 
> The AlienBees unit was not actually tested. Comparisons below are based on the advertised guide number specifications of the unit.
> 
> Output from the halogen shop light (two 500 watt lights on a stand, 1000 watts total) was measured by aiming them squarely at a pair of 18% gray cards at a measured distance of 10 feet and metering the cards with a camera.
> 
> Truth be told, you can poke all kinds of holes in my methodology and question the technical accuracy of my conclusions. But the data will be profound enough to make its point, even if the numbers are a bit off.
> 
> Ok, here are the numbers:
> 
> The AlienBees unit has a guide number of 172 feet with the standard reflector. So let's round that down a bit and say that theoretically it will meter at around f/16 at a distance of 10 feet.
> 
> The gray cards illuminated by the halogen fixture metered at 1/25 second (0.04 seconds) and f/4 at the same distance.
> 
> If you wanted to use the same aperture and ISO with both units, you would need a shutter speed of about 0.64 seconds with the halogens to get the same exposure as the strobe.
> 
> 0.64 seconds of 1000 watts equals 640 watt-seconds. This is reasonably close to the AlienBees' advertised rating of 800 effective watt-seconds, accounting for probable differences in reflectors and angles of coverage.
> 
> If you wanted to use a 1/200 shutter speed and the same aperture and ISO with both units, you would theoretically need 128,000 watts of halogen lights to match the output of the strobe.
> 
> Another interesting comparison: Using the sunny 16 rule as a guide, it would theoretically take 64,000 watts of halogen light at a distance of 10 feet to equal the brightness of a sunny day.


****


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## W.Smith

500 Watts of light is not a lot of light, but it IS a lot of heat!
Imagine you have 3 of those . . . !
That's unpleasant and inconvenient in confined spaces.
It's also a fire hazard.


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## Wolff

When I use continuous lighting I use two lights. One to get rid of the shadows on the background and one from the side so that all of my light isn't coming just from the front (my flash). This also gives subtle shadows on one side of the person's face. Also, when I use the flash I make sure that I am about 5-10 feet away from them so that they don't totally blow out.


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## Big Mike

Beware that flash and most continuous lighting is a different color temperature...which will cause part of your images to have a color cast.


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## Starlite

now we are getting somewhere....


thank you peoples.


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## texassand

Thank you for askin all these questions. I've been confused about which route to take also. I have a Canon Rebel XT and am getting into people portrait photos. This is the setup I was going to buy: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=010&sspagename=STRK%3AME WA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=200044189533&rd=1&rd=1

Is this a rip off. low quality ect.? If so, I will go with something different , but now I'm wondering if I should go with strobe? If a person uses strobe, do they not use ANY continuous lighting? Also, would it be an option to buy this set up and just get more powerful bulbs? Where do you buy bulbs that are 250watt and above anyway? I guess the main reason I wanted to use continuous (lame reason probably) is because I don't understand strobes. I don't even know if my camera would "hook up" to them. Can a pro please give me an idea of a standard setup using strobes and/or contnuous lighting in a studio? Like physically where they are placed in a studio setting (just a common one)?

sorry for all the questions - afterall I'm a "beginner".

thanks

God Bless!!


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## Digital Matt

If you want to take portraits, buy strobes.  Go to www.alienbees.com and get a basic kit, like the digi-bee. (http://www.alienbees.com/digi.html)  If you buy strobes, you'll also need a flash meter.  If you don't understand strobes, then you'll have to learn.  There are lots of schools around that teach portrait photography classes, and lots of books in your local library.  

Any camera with a hotshoe on top can be used with strobes.  There are hotshoe to PC adapters that cost under $10.


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## texassand

Can you please give me just a general idea of what a f;ash meter is and what a good quality one would cost me?


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## Digital Matt

A flash meter connects to your strobes, and measures their output.  You set the  intended shutter speed on the meter, trigger the strobes, and the meter will tell you what aperture to use.

They range from $50 to $600.  If you just want to meter flash, then you'll save a lot.  I have a meter that reads flash, and ambient, incident, and spot.

http://www.adorama.com/SKL558.html

Something like this would work well for you I'm sure, and is much cheaper: http://www.adorama.com/SKL308S.html


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## markc

One thing I think people forget is that you rarely make great pieces of work when you are a beginner. You can learn to see the light just as well with strobes or continuous. Strobes have most of the advantages, but price isn't one of them. Since you already have them, I'd say go ahead and learn with the hot lights, but don't expect images like you see in the magazines. Use them to learn how to manipulate light and get the best image you can. Once you know you will be using the strobes enough to be worth the money, upgrade. I'd get a pair of 500w bulbs from a photo store. A good one should have the blue daylight bulbs. Just be careful of the heat and only have them on when you need them. This is how I started out and I've never bothered with strobes. I realized that natural light was the way I wanted to go, so strobes would have been a waste of money, and I still have the hot lights as backup.

Most of the people I know use strobes, but one who is an accomplished photographer uses continuous. His images are darker and moodier, but that's making use of what's there. He doesn't do Cosmo covers.


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## Starlite

Markc, thanks for that feedback.  That helped a lot!!!

I mean, I appreciate the other feedback, but when somebody is like "yeah, just do this" without really giving specific detail, it leaves a newbie scratching their head as to why, and wondering if they should just blindly follow someone's instructions, without really knowing why.


Question -  I've posted a link above to some bulbs that say 30 Watt, but equal to 120 watt (first link)....  aren't lights like this called "cool lights", and supposed to solve or at least help, with the heat problem?

Will bulbs like these work well -

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...MEWA:IT&viewitem=&item=110048508584&rd=1&rd=1

I know these are just 250 watts, but I believe this seller has the exact same kind at 500 watts as well.


I'd also like to get your opinion on these bulbs -

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...MEWA:IT&viewitem=&item=110044861094&rd=1&rd=1


thank you very much


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## Starlite

texassand said:
			
		

> Thank you for askin all these questions. I've been confused about which route to take also. I have a Canon Rebel XT and am getting into people portrait photos. This is the setup I was going to buy: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=010&sspagename=STRK%3AME WA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=200044189533&rd=1&rd=1
> 
> Is this a rip off. low quality ect.? If so, I will go with something different , but now I'm wondering if I should go with strobe? If a person uses strobe, do they not use ANY continuous lighting? Also, would it be an option to buy this set up and just get more powerful bulbs? Where do you buy bulbs that are 250watt and above anyway? I guess the main reason I wanted to use continuous (lame reason probably) is because I don't understand strobes. I don't even know if my camera would "hook up" to them. Can a pro please give me an idea of a standard setup using strobes and/or contnuous lighting in a studio? Like physically where they are placed in a studio setting (just a common one)?
> 
> sorry for all the questions - afterall I'm a "beginner".
> 
> thanks
> 
> God Bless!!





I am just a beginner, but I have been doing SOME research, and out of the Ebay auction sellers, I would buy from this one -

http://stores.ebay.com/ALZO-Digital


They offered some good support, and I posted a link above to some general help they give on their site, regarding continuous versus strobe.


Keep giving feedback to let us know how it's going!


I'm going to post some photos, as soon as I get some bulbs.

I'm wondering if I should just go to a photo store like "Samy's", instead of Ebay, but when I looked at their online site, everything looked WAY expensive.

Anyone recommend any stores in LA?   What kind of prices should a person expect to pay for a 500 watt bulb??


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## Starlite

benhasajeep said:
			
		

> First off, those ebay bulbs you first listed are a rip off!!  Anyone reading this stay away.  Just a person preying on someone uninformed.  They are nothing but cheap floruscent house lamp bulbs that are over price due to the shipping.  I bought similar bulbs for my house 4 years ago for $.49 each at a local "cheap" store.  You can buy like 3 packs for $10 to $15 at any home store.  And thats a rip off.  My $.49 ones have lasted 4 years now with not one going bad yet.
> 
> Now for cheap studio lights.  You can use 100 watt bulbs but you will need a few of them.  I would go with at least 250watt bulbs.  You can use diffenent bulbs in your lights, but dont put the 250 - 500 watt bulbs in to them on their own.  They most likely have a plastic bulb holder and it will melt (inside contact is metal but outside is plastic).  For a couple bucks they make ceramic adapters that will insulate the cheaper light sockets.
> 
> Other than electricity cost, the big disadvantage to using studio lights (flood) is they are hot / give off lots of heat.  So the model will get hot / may sweat.  You may need a fan to two.
> 
> As for what type of light.  With digital cameras / software that is not biggie now a days.  You can balance the light after taking the pics if the camera does not allow you to with a setting.  Just make sure the shape of the bulb fits the lamp housing without touching or too close to anything that may melt or burn.  If you do have plastic socket make sure you have ceramic insulator before using a bigger bulb.  Most lamps have a sticker or a note right on it somewhere saying something like 100w max.  The ceramic insulators will allow you to use a larger capacity lamp.




What about these bulbs then?  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...MEWA:IT&viewitem=&item=110048508584&rd=1&rd=1

Are these a rip as well?

If so, where should I go, and how much should I expect to pay for 250 or 500?


Oh and this is the setup I purchased (cheap, i know) -

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...MEWN:IT&viewitem=&item=120042196041&rd=1&rd=1


do i still need the ceramic protectors?   I'm not at home, so I can't look to see if these have them, but it SAYS that it is up to 500 watts, so I'm thinking I don't need to worry?


thanks!!!


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## Starlite

Big Mike said:
			
		

> Continuous lights don't put out nearly as much light as strobe/flash does.  Therefore, you may need to have a longer shutter speed to get proper exposure...longer shutter speeds are not good for a)holding the camera and b)subjects that move (people etc.).
> 
> I'm not sure of the math...but I read a post on another site...where someone had calculated that a for a regular bulb to be as bright as a studio light...it would need to be something like 100,000 watts.
> 
> Strobes are so bright...that they only need to be lit for a very small fraction of a second.




Big Mike, I understand the concept that the shutter needs to be open longer to get more light....     when I am using my digital camera though, it never asks me to change the shutter speed...   so I guess I'm just using the default?   Is the camera automatically deciding the shutter speed in this case?

So are you suggesting, that I go in and manually change the shutter, because whatever the camera may be deferring to automatically, might not be right for my shots?

Thank you veterans, for listening to us rookies, and having the patience to read and try to help - ALL OF YOU!!!!! :hail:

We are just like crying babies at this point, and I know at least ME, must sound annoying.


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## Big Mike

There are three things that control exposure.  Shutter speed, aperture (size of the hole in the lens) and the sensitivity of the medium (ISO setting).  If you change any one of these...without changing the other...you will change the exposure.

With an automatic (point & shoot) camera...the camera will decide these things for you.  Even with a $10,000 DSLR...if you use auto mode...the camera will decide these things for you.  The trouble is that the cameras don't know what they are shooting...or what you want it to look like.

So back to your question.  If you just changed the shutter speed (to let in more light)...you would have to compensate by changing something else.  The problem is that you don't want to set the shutter any slower...because that will cause blurriness from a) camera shake and/or b) subject movement. 

So as an example...let say that we want to keep the shutter at 1/125. Any slower and we might get some blur...
If you set the camera to 'Tv' which is shutter priority...the camera will pick an aperture that will give you enough light for a normal exposure.  Now if it's not very bright...the aperture will need to be big (low F number)...but there is a limit as to how big it can get.  The maximum might be F3.5...and with continuous lights, indoors...the combination of F3.5 and 1/125 will probably not be enough to make your exposure.  What about ISO you say?...well the next step would be to turn up your ISO...but the more you do that...the more digital noise you will get.  A good DSLR is good but not great at ISO 800 (digi-cams are crap at ISO 400)...so you don't want to go any higher than that.

So in this case...we might be stuck.  We don't want to go any slower than 1/125...the lens is at it's maximum F3.5 and the ISO is at 800...*what do we do if we still can't get enough light for the exposure?  *One option is to use a 'faster' lens...that has a bigger maximum aperture...but a wider aperture will reduce our DOF (depth of field)...which we may not want...and even a bigger aperture still has a limit.   The only other option would be to increase the power of the light....so that brings us back to why strobes are good...because they are so POWERFULL.

Sorry, was that too wordy?  It's Friday and I want to go home :X


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## Starlite

Mike, I love you.

I understand the basic concepts of what you're talking about, though as a newbie it's a little fuzzy because I'm still trying to process all the info and with that brings more questions...

but that was awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


May I ask if you recommend any certain digital camera?  Right now, I have a Gateway DC-T50, 5 megapixel...   

I was THINKING about upgrading to a Fuji S7000 finepix, but figured before I do that I need to do my research and learn the basics more.


So Mike, are you saying that even with a couple 500 watt continous lights, the setup would still leave a lot to be desired, compared to the strobe lighting?

Also curious if you checked that link I posted above, regarding the comparison of continous versus strobe?   Just would love to hear your opinion on that, and it's a brief summary, so it's not hard at all to read.

http://alzodigital.com/photo_guide/c...s_vs_flash.htm


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## W.Smith

Starlite said:
			
		

> Also curious if you checked that link I posted above, regarding the comparison of continous versus strobe?   Just would love to hear your opinion on that, and it's a brief summary, so it's not hard at all to read.
> 
> http://alzodigital.com/photo_guide/c...s_vs_flash.htm


The problem is not that it is brief to read. The problem is that it would take 2 pages of typing to put it into proper perspective for you _here_.
And all that stuff has been written before. Which is the reason behind all the suggestions you read books and articles on the subject, Starlite.


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## Starlite

W.Smith said:
			
		

> The problem is not that it is brief to read. The problem is that it would take 2 pages of typing to put it into proper perspective for you _here_.
> And all that stuff has been written before. Which is the reason behind all the suggestions you read books and articles on the subject, Starlite.




I love this attitude you got right here, it's so helpful for a newbie.

Let me ask you something -  what's the purpose of a "*beginner's* forum" then????????? 

I mean, if it's too much trouble for you to try to explain something, but yet you state that it "has been written before", then how about a link to where it has been written before?  Is that too much trouble too???

Again, this is the basic of the basic here -  

WHAT KIND OF LIGHT SHOULD I USE


If it's so much trouble for you to try to explain what a person should know, then why not do it once, and then have it pinned up somewhere, or have a link somewhere?


but instead, you say "go read up on it"...


well gee thanks, what is the purpose of this forum then.

I mean, if you don't want to help, or you're too busy or whatever, then why do you even take the time to say that.  I'm sorry, but that sounds very foul to me.  Not trying to be helpful at all.

I'm not lazy, and I'm willing to do whatever I have to do.  But I don't think asking the most basic of the basics question, is something that should be too much for a beginner's forum, and ONCE AGAIN, do it once, and pin it up somewhere.  :hail:


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## Starlite

FOR EXAMPLE,

I just looked at the top of this forum, and at least there is ONE thread pinned up -

_"After countless threads on what to choose, film or digital, and then what kind of film or digital camera I have decided to hopefully sum it all up into one thread that will be updated regularly."


_Why not do the same with lighting?

All I'm asking is for a specific link, or specific post, IF it is too much trouble for someone to post here.

I mean, I am not a young person looking to be a professional photographer.  If I was, I'd probably be reading DOZENS of books on the subject!

All I want to do, is do some basic research, and learn the BASICS (at this point).


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## Digital Matt

> I mean, I am not a young person looking to be a professional photographer. If I was, I'd probably be reading DOZENS of books on the subject!
> 
> All I want to do, is do some basic research, and learn the BASICS (at this point).



Go and get ONE basic photography book then.  You can't expect someone to teach you personally, the basics of photography and lighting, on an internet forum, for free! 

If you can't take the time to follow the advice that's being given here, and go get a book from your libary, how willing do you think people are going to be to spend their saturday night online writing a how to thread for you?

The beginners forum, and any subforum on this forum is meant to help people, sure, but not to train them from the ground up.  Do some work on your own, and everyone here will be plenty willing to answer questions.  Right now, you have so many questions, and very little base knowledge to work with, that we aren't getting anywhere.  There's been tons of good advice and knowledge presented here already.

Oh, and by the way, that link you posted is a sales pitch from a continous lighting company.  If you want peoples opinions on continuous vs strobe, just read this very thread.  It's been stated many times over.


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## markc

There are so many different factors to weigh and so many different opinions that you aren't going to get "just a basic answer". Part of the problem is knowing the right questions to ask. Getting a solid foundation in exposure (shutter/aperture/ISO) is necessary before you start asking questions about artificial light set-ups, or you won't really be able to understand the answers.

It's not that people don't want to help, but as Matt said, you have to do most of the work yourself.


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## Starlite

markc said:
			
		

> There are so many different factors to weigh and so many different opinions that you aren't going to get "just a basic answer". Part of the problem is knowing the right questions to ask. Getting a solid foundation in exposure (shutter/aperture/ISO) is necessary before you start asking questions about artificial light set-ups, or you won't really be able to understand the answers.
> 
> It's not that people don't want to help, but as Matt said, you have to do most of the work yourself.




All I'm asking for, is a specific reference then, to a very BASIC question!

I'm not asking to be "trained from the ground up"....     yes I may ask some questions, but the base of my question is what kind of lighting should I use.  THATS IT!!!!!!

Jeez it's like you guys are afraid that somebody's gonna learn something and give you some competition or something! 


First off, I was talking to Big Mike, and wanted to get HIS take on that link.  It could just be a one sentence answer from him, just wanted to get his take, because that company said something things very contrary to what some have said here....

THEN, "Will" says that "these things have already been talked about on this forum"...............

ok, well how about pinning up the post then, or providing a link to where it's been talked about?

There is a post at the top of this forum that has been pinned up, on another basic question (what kind of camera to get), so I don't see how I'm asking for something so outrageous, and FRANKLY speaking?   I don't like the attitude and comments insinuating that I am being lazy, or don't want to do work to research....   reason being because that's not true.   

I'm just trying to get off the ground, and once I do, then maybe I will be able to share too and give back!



By the way, if any of you are in the LA area, I will PAY you for your time if you would spend a few hours showing me the basics!   I will offer $50 for an hour. :hail:


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## Starlite

Digital Matt said:
			
		

> Oh, and by the way, that link you posted is a sales pitch from a continous lighting company.  If you want peoples opinions on continuous vs strobe, just read this very thread.  It's been stated many times over.




Matt, that company sells STROBE as well as continuous lighting.


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## Starlite

Matt, I'm going to go to a bookstore tommorrow, and checkout the book you recommended, as well as the others that are there.  I'm going to see which one might be the easiest or most simple for a beginner, and maybe I'll get TWO.


If I spouted off and I'm being obnoxious, I apologize to you and everyone.


I really do appreciate the feedback that has already been given, and I thought about it and I'm starting to see your point.


Thank you very much for your patience.


I DO plan to share very soon, as I get going.   I'm sure you'll at least have a good laugh, once I post up my first photos! :greenpbl:


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## michaeledward

I have just read this entire thread. 

I, too, am not a young person / although not yet old. 
I, too, am just starting to work with a basic film camera (Nikon FM-10). 
I, too, know very little about lighting, and am interested in finding information.
I, too, signed up for this forum, hoping to get some hints and tips to try and evaluate. 
I, too, looked to ebay for continuous lighting, thinking that would be a good way to light subjects. 

I have read a couple of books, and find them woefully lacking in explaining the information I feel I need to make decisions related to equipment. 

Starlite, I appreciate your presistence in getting to some answers. Thank you. 


To the other posters ... thank you ... your attempts to answer Starlite's questions, I think, are based upon the supposition of information. But, I have no frame of reference to understand what you are attempting to convey. I think most of your answers are going way over my head, because you assume I have more knowledge than I do. 

At this point in my life ... the only thing I think I am going to be doing with my camera is to take pictures at my karate studio; portraits of students after promotion ceremonies, not action shots. In these pictures, I turn my camera 90 degrees. The top mounted flash places a sharp shadown to the side of the subject. I want to eliminate that shadow. 

I understand, that it will be best to have a flash (or two) not mounted to the top of my camera for these photos. 

So I have made progress ... now to figure out how to do that .... 

Mike


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## rhncue

Starlite said:


> All I'm asking for, is a specific reference then, to a very BASIC question!
> 
> I'm not asking to be "trained from the ground up"....     yes I may ask some questions, but the base of my question is what kind of lighting should I use.  THATS IT!!!!!!
> 
> Jeez it's like you guys are afraid that somebody's gonna learn something and give you some competition or something!
> 
> 
> First off, I was talking to Big Mike, and wanted to get HIS take on that link.  It could just be a one sentence answer from him, just wanted to get his take, because that company said something things very contrary to what some have said here....
> 
> THEN, "Will" says that "these things have already been talked about on this forum"...............
> 
> ok, well how about pinning up the post then, or providing a link to where it's been talked about?
> 
> There is a post at the top of this forum that has been pinned up, on another basic question (what kind of camera to get), so I don't see how I'm asking for something so outrageous, and FRANKLY speaking?   I don't like the attitude and comments insinuating that I am being lazy, or don't want to do work to research....   reason being because that's not true.
> 
> I'm just trying to get off the ground, and once I do, then maybe I will be able to share too and give back!
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, if any of you are in the LA area, I will PAY you for your time if you would spend a few hours showing me the basics!   I will offer $50 for an hour. :hail:



Seems like I've read about 20 times now that the consensus is to use strobe lights for what you want to accomplish but that is not what you want to hear. You have bought cheaper lighting and want to be told a way to make it perform as good as the proper equipment and I don't think it's going to happen. It's also been stated that this subject has been broached a number of times before and you want someone else to do the reference work for you to find it. There is a search on this site and you would probably be surprised what you could come up with if you utilized this function.

Dick


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