# Can anyone ID this camera?



## HippieWitch (May 22, 2013)

All I know is its a Targus. 

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## o hey tyler (May 22, 2013)

Google revealed it's an Argus C3.

Amazon.com: Vintage Argus C3 The Brick 35mm Film Camera +Case + Flash All Works: Everything Else


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## otherprof (May 22, 2013)

Tyler got it. And it is easy to do double exposures with that camera. Glad you posted it. "She reminds me of the one I loved back then," as George Jones sang.


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## Derrel (May 22, 2013)

The Argus C3 was the best-selling 35mm camera in the world for almost three decades, from 1939 to 1966. I had one when I was a kid, back in the mid-1970's. It was not in very good shape. I bought a truly mint 1957 or '58 model last year at Goodwill...it was the nicest C-3 I've ever seen,along with the almost immaculate "everready" case. This camera was often known as "The Brick", for obvious reasons. It's a good example of rather primitive technology, just barely refined into a workable product. Compared to Contax, Leica, or even Kodak cameras of similar design, it's a very crude instrument. But...they sold like crazy. These were pretty affordable cameras.


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## timor (May 22, 2013)

Derrel said:


> it's a very crude instrument. But...they sold like crazy. These were pretty affordable cameras.


Thanks to C3 35 mm film became a standard as a still photography medium.


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## usayit (May 22, 2013)

cheap and crude... I have a couple just for display.   Rangefinder type.  Open them up and you'll really get to see how crude they were... but it did open up photography to the masses.  Kinda built like the toys of the same era.


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## timor (May 22, 2013)

usayit said:


> cheap and crude... I have a couple just for display.   Rangefinder type.  Open them up and you'll really get to see how crude they were... but it did open up photography to the masses.  Kinda built like the toys of the same era.


Common, it was a proper tool for proper times. Name any other American made camera of that time, which was not crude comparing to Japan and Europe designs and in mass production .


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## HippieWitch (May 22, 2013)

o hey tyler said:


> Google revealed it's an Argus C3.
> 
> Amazon.com: Vintage Argus C3 The Brick 35mm Film Camera +Case + Flash All Works: Everything Else



Thank you for identifying it for me.  

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## usayit (May 22, 2013)

timor said:


> Common, it was a proper tool for proper times. Name any other American made camera of that time, which was not crude comparing to Japan and Europe designs and in mass production .



sure.... did I say it wasn't a proper tool?  Is "crude and cheap" not an appropriate description?    sheesh...

Need I remind you that Japanese products were also often crude and cheap after the war....  The C series argus also predates the first 35mm film camera out of Japan.

Eastman Kodak was producing some nice quality back then...  maybe not in 135 format but still nice never-the-less.




BTW.. just noticed in the photo... the lens.  I believe its a later C3 model.


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## timor (May 22, 2013)

usayit said:


> Need I remind you that Japanese products were also often crude and cheap after the war....  The C series argus also predates the first 35mm film camera out of Japan.


But Japan was totally destroyed but very soon their cameras improved and started to flood American market making look Argus C3 really like a toy. I don't know why Kodak never went into business of making serious cameras.


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## DSRay (May 22, 2013)

That was my first camera.  My parents gave it to me when they bought their new Minolta SLR.  I also eventually got the Minolta SLR.


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## usayit (May 22, 2013)

timor said:


> But Japan was totally destroyed.....



Woah.. really?  

Didn't know that....  :er:

So I ask again...  Did I say it wasn't a "proper" tool?  Is "crude and cheap" not an appropriate description?   Did I not say "after the war?"

Sorry.. I'm just trying to follow exactly the line of reasoning behind your responses to my posts.... other than restating the obvious in a form that seems counter.  You seem to take offense to calling the Argus C3 cheap and crude, yet still seem to agree that it is crude toy like.  Very confusing.


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## Derrel (May 22, 2013)

usayit said:


> timor said:
> 
> 
> > But Japan was totally destroyed.....
> ...



I can't figure out what timor's 'issue' is with your characterization of the old Argus C3...   Still, I like my description: " It's a good example of rather primitive technology, just barely refined into a workable product."

Don't go after me, please, timor! See--I said it's a _good_ example...of_ rather _primitive technology...."refined"..."workable product". lol

American cameras of the time? There were a few small companies making cameras in the USA, but more were made in Europe I'd venture. In the USA, the Busch Precision Camera Co, and Graflex, and Simon-Omega were probably making cameras that were worlds better and more-refined than the Argus C3. The C3 was...primitive...tractor-like I would say. Utilitarian. Ugly squared off design. Relatively unpolished metalwork. Ugly. Compared to, say a Kodak Medalist, the viewfinder and rangefinder system in the C3 was...poor, by comparison. But, the C3 got the job done, and as I recall they had a very good guarantee and repair policy. The Argus C3 was a BIG seller. It was priced right and built solidly, and it doubled as a self-defense weapon.


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## The Barbarian (May 23, 2013)

In fact, the camera is surprisingly easy to work on; you can do a CLA with very little experience.   The shutter is reliable (have you ever found an inoperative C3?) and the lenses are adequate and better than some Japanese glass of the same period.


*The Argus designers of the 1930s set out on a daring journey indeed when  they conceived the idea for the C-line of cameras. Their objective was  to produce an inexpensive, reliable 35mm rangefinder with the capacity  to accept interchangeable lenses and yield sharp images. Given the  materials and technology available, the only way to succeed at those  goals was to emphasize simplicity of operation and durable, but heavy  components. The shutter of the C3 with its beams and gears spread across  the face of the camera is like no other design. The rangefinder, with  its odd external lens coupling is rugged and accurate. The standard 50mm  Cintar lens is capable of very good sharpness. The basic design of the  camera remained largely unchanged over the three decades in which it was  produced, except for some cosmetic changes like the two-tone color  scheme of the Matchmatic model, or the addition of a clip-on exposure  meter. *
Argus C3



> The Argus C3 was a BIG seller. It was priced right and built solidly, and it doubled as a self-defense weapon.



No kidding.   On a wrist strap, the heavy, square-edged camera was a formidable weapon, quite capable of taking down a mugger, and then getting a shot of him lying on the ground.


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## IanG (May 23, 2013)

Derrel said:


> The Argus C3 was the best-selling 35mm camera in the world for almost three decades, from 1939 to 1966. I had one when I was a kid, back in the mid-1970's. It was not in very good shape. I bought a truly mint 1957 or '58 model last year at Goodwill...it was the nicest C-3 I've ever seen,along with the almost immaculate "everready" case. This camera was often known as "The Brick", for obvious reasons. It's a good example of rather primitive technology, just barely refined into a workable product. Compared to Contax, Leica, or even Kodak cameras of similar design, it's a very crude instrument. But...they sold like crazy. These were pretty affordable cameras.



No it wasn't the best selling camera in the world, maybe the best selling camera in the US but they weren't exported in large numbers, they almost all went for domestic consumption.

Ian


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## compur (May 23, 2013)

timor said:


> I don't know why Kodak never went into business of making serious cameras.



Kodak made many professional level cameras - the Ektra, the Retina series, Vollenda, Recomar, the Medalist cameras, the Master View 8x10 and other large format cameras and lenses, etc.


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## timor (May 23, 2013)

compur said:


> timor said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know why Kodak never went into business of making serious cameras.
> ...


Yes, that's true, but what would you call here "serious" attempt ? Only Retina is known a bit, but that thanks to the fact, that it was designed and made in Germany for sales in Europe. Ektra ? A world most complicated and unreliable rangefinder for (equivalent of) $20000 ? Leica is half that price. And after the war situation was even less positive for American would be camera makers with (forced) cheap supply of cameras from Japan. Actually It was maybe a positive spin as thanks to almost monopoly on American market and pressure of German engineering in Europe, Japan was able to develop the best camera industry we know.


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## Derrel (May 23, 2013)

IanG said:
			
		

> No it wasn't the best selling camera in the world, maybe the best selling camera in the US but they weren't exported in large numbers, they almost all went for domestic consumption.
> 
> Ian



A number of sources state that it was the best-selling 35mm camera in the world. Or they describe it as an incredible seller, with over two million C3 cameras sold. For a specific camera model, two million units is a very high number. I think maybe some kind of Euro-centric feeling might be at play here. Is the USA not part of "the world"?

Anyway...I find it hard to believe that a camera priced at $25 to $66.50 over the span of 1938 to 1966 would NOT outsell $175 economy Leicas to $350 Leicas, and $350-$450 Contax rangefinders. I had a 1940 Bass Camera catalog when I was a kid...the prices of Leica III and Contax rangefinders were ASTOUNDINGLY high. $400 would buy a decent car in those days.

Here's anice article on the C3 with more and varied info than many have: https://sites.google.com/site/fromthefocalplanetoinfinity/argusc3


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## IanG (May 23, 2013)

The word best selling is very misleading because there were many companies selling far more cameras as a whole as well on an individual model basis per year. That would include Kodak in the US, and many Japanese manufacturers making much higher end cameras.

The 2.2 million figure for the C series includes different models as well as variations of the C3 and it's not actually that many cameras per year over the period they were made.  Some of the early Instamatics (oh a US camera gain) way outsold the C3. and so did many of the aerlier Kodak models, but unlike the C3 they were sold and also made in in other parts of the world.

That doesn't take away the fact that a lot of C3's were made and sold but over a long period of time where other companies had progress enormously, but then Graflex were slow to change as well. 

So not Euro-centric rather just a more balanced view.

Ian


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## bsinmich (May 24, 2013)

Argus was in Ann Arbor, MI at that time.  I have an early one that doesn't have the flash contacts on the side.  I also have an A2 and that is crude.  The pot metal castings for the insides are one thing that make them look cheap.  The C4 was a big jump forward with double exposure prevention and combined range/viewfinder.


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## compur (May 24, 2013)

timor said:


> Only Retina is known a bit ...



The Retina was known more than "a bit."  The 35mm film cartridge still in use today was originally created for the Retina making it one of the most influential cameras of all time.



> ... it was designed and made in Germany for sales in Europe.



Retinas were made for sales all over the world, not just Europe.  It was a hugely successful camera line.



> Ektra ? A world most complicated and unreliable rangefinder for (equivalent of) $20000 ? Leica is half that price. And after the war situation was even less positive for American would be camera makers with (forced) cheap supply of cameras from Japan. Actually It was maybe a positive spin as thanks to almost monopoly on American market and pressure of German engineering in Europe, Japan was able to develop the best camera industry we know.



Nevertheless, it was a serious attempt by Kodak to create a Leica competitive product. All major camera manufacturers made some flops including Leitz.

It's true that Kodak's emphasis was on simple consumer level cameras but they did make a number of pro-quality cameras and lenses.  For example, their Commercial Ektars are still highly prized today by large format photographers and the Medalist (a 6x9 rangefinder) cameras still bring good prices on the used market as do various Retina models and others. Kodak AG made cameras rivaling Zeiss in pro-level quality back in the day.


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## compur (May 24, 2013)

bsinmich said:


> Argus was in Ann Arbor, MI at that time.  I have an early one that doesn't have the flash contacts on the side.



The Argus C & C2 didn't have the flash contacts and are fairly collectible.


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## IanG (May 24, 2013)

compur said:


> timor said:
> 
> 
> > It's true that Kodak's emphasis was on simple consumer level cameras but they did make a number of pro-quality cameras and lenses.  For example, their Commercial Ektars are still highly prized today by large format photographers and the Medalist (a 6x9 rangefinder) cameras still bring good prices on the used market as do various Retina models and others. Kodak AG made cameras rivaling Zeiss in pro-level quality back in the day.
> ...


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