# D4s



## SnappingShark (Feb 5, 2014)

THE D4S IS NEAR!!!!!!!

Who has a spare six grand?

Will the D4 price drop?

Will my hand be able to pick up a camera by then?!!

Stay tuned!


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## runnah (Feb 5, 2014)

I was hoping for more...more!

Not a huge improvement and both flagship models are getting a bit long in the tooth. D800 is still the nikon I'd get.


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## robbins.photo (Feb 5, 2014)

BrightByNature said:


> THE D4S IS NEAR!!!!!!!
> 
> Who has a spare six grand?



Well I don't think you could call it "spare" - I was actually planning on buying a $20 film camera and $5980 worth of film.  



> Will the D4 price drop?
> 
> Will my hand be able to pick up a camera by then?!!
> 
> Stay tuned!



Will Timmy ever give Lassie a break and stay away from that !%$$@%$ well?  I mean seriously kid, how dumb do you have to be, you've fallen into it every week for 3 years in a row.  Duh!

Lol


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## Derrel (Feb 5, 2014)

I'm still expecting the D300s follow-up later this month...

The D4 is long in the tooth, for sure. It was first offered for sale exactly two years ago, this month--all the way back in two thousand and twelve!!! Errmahhhgerd!

THere might be some slight channel-clearing price reductions on the D4 after the D4s becomes the new standard, but I doubt the will be like say, the BLOW-OUT, $1,500 price reductions NIkon pulled out one night when they closed out the D2h, dropping the price from around $3499 to $1999 in ONE, single move with one day's notice. I do not forsee that kind of a fire-sale. We could HOPE for a repeat of that, but that was probably the single largest one-step price drop I have EVER seen in the camera biz.


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## BillM (Feb 5, 2014)

It would be nice if they would put two normal card slots in it.


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## bhop (Feb 5, 2014)

D4 .. who'd want such an old thing?


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## DorkSterr (Feb 5, 2014)

I was hoping it would come with a 24MP at least. The two different cards doesn't bother me, I actually like the XQD.


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## ShootRaw (Feb 5, 2014)

There wont be a replacement for the D300s...The D7200 will fill that spot...


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## coastalconn (Feb 5, 2014)

ShootRaw said:


> There wont be a replacement for the D300s...The D7200 will fill that spot...


Unfortunately I have come to this conclusion too. As much as it pains me..  Well maybe they can at least throw a dedicated AF-ON button on the back.  and a buffer that isn't a joke, like 8 FPS for 24 frames would be nice...


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## vipgraphx (Feb 5, 2014)

Wonder what is in the line up. There is also some talk of a sony a9 54mp mirror less camera


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## goodguy (Feb 6, 2014)

vipgraphx said:


> Wonder what is in the line up. There is also some talk of a sony a9 54mp mirror less camera



Yep exactly what I'm looking for, a camera that can produce pictures with files the size of a whole movie, will be able to take 3 shots before the momory card will be full.
Thats redicolous


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## Braineack (Feb 6, 2014)

goodguy said:


> vipgraphx said:
> 
> 
> > Wonder what is in the line up. There is also some talk of a sony a9 54mp mirror less camera
> ...



Well we all know camera phones are the new standard for professional photography and they are up to 41MP...


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## Coasty (Feb 6, 2014)

coastalconn said:


> ShootRaw said:
> 
> 
> > There wont be a replacement for the D300s...The D7200 will fill that spot...
> ...




Why would they spend extra money do that as long as Nikon gets DX users to &#8220;make due&#8221; with or settle for the slightly inferior and less pro D7000/D7100?


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## TheLost (Feb 6, 2014)

Derrel said:


> I'm still expecting the D300s follow-up later this month...



I doubt we'll see the 'D400' this month... as others have said the D7200 is probably going to be the 'pro-ish DX' everybody-gets-but-nobody-wants.

The problem here is that the D7100 was released the end March 2013.   Nikon has NEVER released an update to the D70/D80/D90/D7x00 line in 'one year' updates.  It has always been a two year cycle (at minimum) for the higher end DX bodies.

If we see a D400/D7200 this year im going to put my money on the fall/winter... But i doubt they have solved the data-flow issue (how to move large amounts 24mp image data to sustain i high FPS).  A larger buffer only creates a longer flush time to the SD cards (you'll get a few more images... but your camera will be locked up longer while it writes them to the card).

PROVE ME WRONG NIKON!!


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## robbins.photo (Feb 6, 2014)

TheLost said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> > I'm still expecting the D300s follow-up later this month...
> ...



Ok, well it might just be me but I've always found when your dealing with a huge corporation like Nikon, you want your taunt to sound a little more business like and professional.  Might I recommend something more like this:

Prove me wrong Nikon!  Nanner Nanner Boo Boo!  

That should garner the attention your looking for I would think.. lol


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## runnah (Feb 6, 2014)

I think the point here is that a MP here and a FPS there does not really require a whole new model IMO.


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## MGRPhoto (Feb 6, 2014)

Derrel said:


> I'm still expecting the D300s follow-up later this month...



Do you honestly think there will be a direct replacement to the D300s or are you being sarcastic?



Coasty said:


> coastalconn said:
> 
> 
> > ShootRaw said:
> ...



At the end of last year Nikon blamed their tanking sales on less interest in the professional and pro-sumer bodies as well as an increase in mirrorless sales. At the same time companies selling mirrorless cameras are complaining about terrible sales and a lack of interest in the market. Now look at all the people still hanging on to their D300/D300s, D700 and D3/D3s. Nikon has failed to offer anything really worth ditching the 2008~2010 bodies for. They have left a huge hole in their product line without offering a D300s replacement. A lot of people picked up a D700 or D3 and a D300 as a backup/companion. The same probably would have happened if an APS-C companion to the D4/D800 was available. A wide lens on your FX body and tele on the DX body are a powerful combination. The D300/D3 shooter sees a replacement for the D3 but not the D300 and figures.. egh I'll wait until I can get them both together. That way they have all the same controls and features on both bodies. That is a STRONG selling point and it showed in the D3/D700/D300 sales and longevity. Just my opinion on the matter. Not stating any of this as fact.


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## KmH (Feb 6, 2014)

BillM said:


> It would be nice if they would put two normal card slots in it.


What is a normal card slot?

Time marches on and XQD cards use a superior transfer interface and have high transfer speeds than CF.
CompactFlash Association readies next-gen XQD format, promises write speeds of 125 MB/s and up


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## TheLost (Feb 6, 2014)

KmH said:


> BillM said:
> 
> 
> > It would be nice if they would put two normal card slots in it.
> ...



Time has marched passed XQD...  Sony seems to be the only one making them now.  Lexar 'says' they are still producing the cards but they just came out with a new CFAST 2.0 CF format (with no announced new XQD at CES this year).  

It seems XQD is headed to the junk drawer with all those MSPD cards...


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## Derrel (Feb 6, 2014)

Yes, I do think Nikon will release a D300s follow-up model. So does Thom Hogan. He wrote about it this week in his loooooong coln. My Answers to the Unanswered Questions | byThom | Thom Hogan

"Will there be a D300s successor? _The answer should be yes. The answer almost has to be yes, though whether that answer has a D400 name to it is another story.  SNIP>>>>>>__Bottom line: some form of D300s successor needs to appear in 2014 or else Nikon risks losing all traction in this segment. It could appear in February, April, or July/August. I doubt it would appear after that because of the risk that Photokina in the fall poses>>>SNIP"_


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## runnah (Feb 6, 2014)

Derrel said:


> Yes, I do think Nikon will release a D300s follow-up model. So does Thom Hogan. He wrote about it this week in his loooooong coln. My Answers to the Unanswered Questions | byThom | Thom Hogan
> 
> "Will there be a D300s successor? _The answer should be yes. The answer almost has to be yes, though whether that answer has a D400 name to it is another story.  SNIP>>>>>>__Bottom line: some form of D300s successor needs to appear in 2014 or else Nikon risks losing all traction in this segment. It could appear in February, April, or July/August. I doubt it would appear after that because of the risk that Photokina in the fall poses>>>SNIP"_



But will it have an XQD slot?! 

Anyways I hope they do.


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## Derrel (Feb 6, 2014)

Yeah..the whole XQD thing...looks like a fiasco from where I sit. 

What's weird is that both Canon and Nikon have allowed their "semi-pro" APS-C body offering to languish for YEARS now!! Canon releases the 7D back in September of 2009...the D300s had been announced in July of 2009...and since that time NEITHER company has released a direct follow-up model...both companies have allowed their "semi-pro"/top-level APS-C body offerings to stagnate...

I dunno...the reasons for full-frame, the low-light and High-ISO reasons that used to exist in the 2005-2009 era have slowly become less of a factor, and the D4 doesn't attract the kind of huge media/internet "buzz" that the D3 and D3s attracted. The D4 really does seem to have been greeted with a big collective "Yawwwwwwn," probably because the 5D Mark III hit at about the same time, and the image quality of the D4 is, I think, bettered by the D800 and the 5D-III.

I looked at and demo'd the Canon 5D-III, the D800, and the Nikon D4. I shoot about a hundred files each with the D4 and the 5D-III, but didn't shoot the D800 'cause I didn't like the body or viewfinder of the D800. I went with the camera I liked the best...the D3x... better viewfinder image than the D800, better than the 5D-III, and better body ergonomics for me than the D800 or 5D-III or D4. The D4 and D800 have the "new" and re-designed Nikon ergonomics, which I did not like at ALL. I* liked the Canon 5D-III's ergonomics better than the D4's or D800's*. I dunno...the D4's got a new body feel, new layout, and the 16MP sensor is not what I was looking for...I think the 22 to 24 MP area of the D3x, D610,and Canon 5D-III and 6-D (20 MP, but NEW-tech) is more what I need.

I personally think Nikon screwed up going with "just" a 16 MP sensor, when 20,22,or 24 MP, and even 36MP sensors, are now for real, and are very good. It doesn't seem to make a lot of marketing sense to me--except for people who want more, smaller, lower-rez files, for easier transmitting, and for printed-page or web-use, where high resolution is just wasted MP's.


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## runnah (Feb 6, 2014)

Derrel said:


> Yeah..the whole XQD thing...looks like a fiasco from where I sit.
> 
> What's weird is that both Canon and Nikon have allowed their "semi-pro" APS-C body offering to languish for YEARS now!! Canon releases the 7D back in September of 2009...the D300s had been announced in July of 2009...and since that time NEITHER company has released a direct follow-up model...both companies have allowed their "semi-pro"/top-level APS-C body offerings to stagnate...
> 
> ...



Which why not having things like wifi, "real" card slots, higher mp, faster FPS and so on makes me really scratch my head as to why this camera costs almost $6k and why they need a "S" version! The flagship "look at me" model from any company should be the cat's meow and not get over shadowed by the camera that costs thousands less.



Derrel said:


> I* liked the Canon 5D-III's ergonomics better than the D4's or D800's*.



*faints*


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## MGRPhoto (Feb 6, 2014)

Derrel said:


> Yes, I do think Nikon will release a D300s follow-up model. So does Thom Hogan. He wrote about it this week in his loooooong coln. My Answers to the Unanswered Questions | byThom | Thom Hogan
> 
> "Will there be a D300s successor? _The answer should be yes. The answer almost has to be yes, though whether that answer has a D400 name to it is another story.  SNIP>>>>>>__Bottom line: some form of D300s successor needs to appear in 2014 or else Nikon risks losing all traction in this segment. It could appear in February, April, or July/August. I doubt it would appear after that because of the risk that Photokina in the fall poses>>>SNIP"_



Yeah I read that and to me it sounded more like wishful thinking than anything. For me the final nail in the D400 coffin was this sentence:







That's a D300 line is dead sentence if I've ever seen one. The introduction of the D7000 never said anything like that. And too add that they are selling the D7000 and D7100 at the same time and marketing them differently.


The funny thing is he mentions they risk losing traction in this segment..... oh really? To who? The people that statement is direct at are still shooting D300s. Those people aren't going to switch full time to some mirrorless camera and start over. They are going to fire that D300s until it dies. Same with the 7D crowd.


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## Derrel (Feb 6, 2014)

Yeah...the built-in WiFi thing....that's in what is it? TWO d-slr bodies is it? I know the Canon 6D has built-in WiFi. I agree that the flagship camera ought to be awesome, buuuuut, I think the "real profit" lies in the mid-level models...that's always been the way the GOldilocks Marketing approach really works: good, better, best, with the MIDDLE model being the real high-profit maker for the manufacturer.

For example, the Canon 5D, 5D-II, 5D-III...priced at $800 MORE than were the Nikon D700 or, now, the Nikon D800. Canon was able to force buyers to cough up $800 or so more than those who wanted a Nikon D800. Buuuuuut, with the Canon 7D being so old, and with such an outdated sensor, the Canon 6D, a cheap body with a new sensor at $2k, or the 5D-III at $3,499, is where the biggest sales volume and the biggest profit margin exists for Canon.

Nikon's been doing the same thing with the D700 and D800 as their $2,999 camera!!! it's either pay three grand OR pay $8 k for a D3x, or $5999 for a D3s or a D4....

THe MORE I think about WHY the 7D and D300s have not been updated is the above: it's a calculated move designed to force people to the HIGH-profit, but very capable, "MIDDLE ground" bodies... with the flagships mostly as reference points for people to lust after, then "settle for" great, high-profit margin 5D-III and D800 bodies.


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## Derrel (Feb 6, 2014)

MGRPhoto said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, I do think Nikon will release a D300s follow-up model. So does Thom Hogan. He wrote about it this week in his loooooong coln. My Answers to the Unanswered Questions | byThom | Thom Hogan
> ...



About two weeks ago I guess, MatthewO, a TPF bird shooter, broke down and bought himself a D7100...within a week, he did a post here about how much BETTER the camera performs on birds in flight, and in general, with his 500mm f/4 VR and or 500 + TC combo... He seems to think that the D7100 focuses better than the D800 does, AND he seems to think the image quality is better with the D7100...I thought that was interesting, but not "all that" surprising.

As to the "flagship DX" camera, the D7100....well, of course that's how they are going to market the D7100. It **is** their new, high-MP, highest-priced DX body...and to get people to buy it, they need to give it a selling proposition--because the D3200,3300,5200, and 7100 ALL HAVE 24MP sensors of the same generation, and the same basic image quality. I DO THINK though that the D5200 and D3300 BOTH shoot higher-quality VIDEO than the D7100 does, however. But the whole good-better-best thing with the 3xxx/5xxx/7xxx cameras is interesting...Nikon has higher-MP sensors in their beginner's camera than any sensor Canon has EVER made, at ANY price...

The Megapixel Wars were supposed to be dead, but somebody forgot to tell Nikon. I dunno...I've been thinking about maybe picking up a D3300, just for the tiny form factor and the 24MP sensor and the video and the F-mount...I would not be happy with a 12 MP D300s image these days...we're wayyy past that era now. The stuff I am seeing come out of the D7100 is VERY darned good in image quality. VERY good. With the high-end glass, the pics are just...great!


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## vipgraphx (Feb 6, 2014)

Well although I don't have much to add to this topic I can say that the D7100 IS a great camera. I honestly can say that IMO I would rather have the D7100 over a D610 even factoring the FF vs Crop thing. THe D7100 is much more advanced and the clarity of the shots is superb. You can save a lot of money using this camera about $800 and side by side IQ I don't think many people if any could really see the difference. I think I was more impressed shooting with the D7100 than when I shot the D610. I kept thinking the D610 was lacking something where I thought the D7100 was top dawg. Coming from a FF D700 I think the D610 was not really where it needed to be..from the controls to the eye piece it felt more like a DX camera&#8230;


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## runnah (Feb 6, 2014)

Derrel said:


> Yeah...the built-in WiFi thing....that's in what is it? TWO d-slr bodies is it? I know the Canon 6D has built-in WiFi. I agree that the flagship camera ought to be awesome, buuuuut, I think the "real profit" lies in the mid-level models...that's always been the way the GOldilocks Marketing approach really works: good, better, best, with the MIDDLE model being the real high-profit maker for the manufacturer.
> 
> For example, the Canon 5D, 5D-II, 5D-III...priced at $800 MORE than were the Nikon D700 or, now, the Nikon D800. Canon was able to force buyers to cough up $800 or so more than those who wanted a Nikon D800. Buuuuuut, with the Canon 7D being so old, and with such an outdated sensor, the Canon 6D, a cheap body with a new sensor at $2k, or the 5D-III at $3,499, is where the biggest sales volume and the biggest profit margin exists for Canon.
> 
> ...



On specs alone I would argue that the MKIII and D800 are the better cameras. Certainly the best bang for the buck out of the entire line. The only place where they are beaten is in the FPS and image processing and that matters to a certain segement of photographers.

To me it is weird that the camera world is different than most else in the fact that the lower and mid tier models are the ones that get all the bells and whistle while the top tiers are more basic.


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## MGRPhoto (Feb 6, 2014)

Derrel said:


> MGRPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > Derrel said:
> ...



I saw he compared it to the D800 but did he say it was better than a D300s? I've used all three but I haven't used the D800 and D7100 with the same lens in the same conditions side by side like I have with the D7100 and D300s. While the D7100 is superior in many ways I thought they were about the same in AF performance. I really couldn't feel any significant improvement in the D7100. That being said I've always been blown away by the excellent performance of the D300s so obviously I feel the same way about the D7100. I'll ultimately break down and get one as well or the D7200. I'm not going to be happy about not being able to use my 10-pin lighting equipment though....

That's why I made the point to mention that Nikon never referred to the D7000 as the flagship DX camera.

I honestly couldn't care less about the megapixels. I still use my 10mp D50 and that is more than enough for even large prints.


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## Derrel (Feb 6, 2014)

runnah said:
			
		

> On specs alone I would argue that the MKIII and D800 are the better cameras. Certainly the best bang for the buck out of the entire line. The only place where they are beaten is in the FPS and image processing and that matters to a certain segement of photographers.
> 
> To me it is weird that the camera world is different than most else in the fact that the lower and mid tier models are the ones that get all the bells and whistle while the top tiers are more basic.



Agreed...the specifications and image quality of the 5D-III and the D800 and D800e are really,really high. I think the manufacturing cost savings on components and parts makes the mid-level models the real volume sellers and the higher-profit margin cameras. I bet Canon and Nikon sell 10, or more, 5D-III/D800 bodies to every 1Dx/D4 body they sell.

I figure the camera makers have every single dime accounted for on their production lines, and both have been able to consistently sell a LOT of $3499 to $2999 cameras; 5D classic, 5D-II, 5D-III, D700, D800, D800e, and this has been going on since the mid-2000's...people seem willing to pay for the 5D-series or the D700/D800 cameras, and AT THE TIME they were released, their image quality and feature set and price, price/performance ratio was such that loads of people said, "I want that! Here' my credit card digits!"


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## TheLost (Feb 6, 2014)

Derrel said:


> About two weeks ago I guess, MatthewO, a TPF bird shooter, broke down and bought himself a D7100...within a week, he did a post here about how much BETTER the camera performs on birds in flight, and in general, with his 500mm f/4 VR and or 500 + TC combo... He seems to think that the D7100 focuses better than the D800 does, AND he seems to think the image quality is better with the D7100...I thought that was interesting, but not "all that" surprising.



I think its funny when people say Nikon 'crippled the D7100' on purpose.  Yet you don't her people saying the D800 has been sabotaged due to its low FPS.  If Nikon COULD make it shoot faster they WOULD.




Derrel said:


> I've been thinking about maybe picking up a D3300, just for the tiny form factor and the 24MP sensor and the video and the F-mount..



I predict we'll see a Nikon D1000 (low cost, small body, mirrorless competing) body long before we see a D400/D????.
Nikon to release new entry level DSLR camera, "revised" compact cameras | Nikon Rumors

Nikon's primary business is consumer cameras.


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## Derrel (Feb 6, 2014)

MGRPhoto said:
			
		

> SNIP> Nikon never referred to the D7000 as the flagship DX camera.



I have not really spent much time looking at how Nikon, USA labels its cameras. It's always just brand-name B.S. I think. Sales pitches. Feature-promoting. You know, the things manufacturer's regional outlets do to hype stuff up. I guess the D7100 is now "the flagship DX" body from Nikon.

I dunno...I suspect that the number of MWACs and GWACS and semi-pro's and so on who need one or two bodies find the new, 24MP sensor and small size and affordable $1199 price of the D7100 outnumbers the "serious amateurs" and the "birding enthusiasts" who went for the D300 and D300s. I mean, I suspect that there are a number of enthusiasts who have bought TWO D7100 bodies, instead of one,single D300s body, just due to the price structure.

The D4, D4s issue: I wonder just how many of those Nikon sells? Given the way things have gone with newer, consumer cameras, I am beginning to think that the flagship FX market is exceedingly small, world-wide. It might have big mind-share on the internet, but I think the progress made in "regular" d-slrs has made those flagship-type price points simply unsustainable at any degree of volume. A D7100 has farrrrrrrr better high-ISO capability than a $5000 D2x from 2005.

I'm starting to think that the end of the flagship era is HERE, right now. Oh, the D4s will be made...but the majority of working pros will be shooting cameras that cost $1200 to $2999, not 6k.


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## D-B-J (Feb 6, 2014)

Derrel said:


> Yeah..the whole XQD thing...looks like a fiasco from where I sit.
> 
> What's weird is that both Canon and Nikon have allowed their "semi-pro" APS-C body offering to languish for YEARS now!! Canon releases the 7D back in September of 2009...the D300s had been announced in July of 2009...and since that time NEITHER company has released a direct follow-up model...both companies have allowed their "semi-pro"/top-level APS-C body offerings to stagnate...
> 
> ...




Well said, sir.  I am really getting frustrated with Nikon's lack of upgrade on the D300.  There's no good option for me to upgrade to--the D610 is entry-level full frame, the D800 has HUGE files that i'll never need, and the D7100 would be a useless upgrade.  Why can't they make a D710? Or a D400?


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## D-B-J (Feb 6, 2014)

Derrel said:


> MGRPhoto said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Especially with the amazing IQ you can achieve with the lower cost DX bodies.  The IQ differences between the D7100 and D4 are smaller than say the differences between the D90 and the D3 (personal observation, not factual by any means).


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## MGRPhoto (Feb 6, 2014)

It'd be nice if they implemented a common sense naming scheme and started fresh...
FX1 - Full Size with built in grip - professional
FX10 - Full Size without grip - pro backup / enthusiast
FX100 - Mid Size without grip - entry level
DX1 - Full Size with build in grip - professional
DX10 - Full Size without grip - pro backup / enthusiast
DX100 - Mid Size without grip - entry level
DX1000- Compact/Mirrorless - whatever level

Dream lineup


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## Derrel (Feb 6, 2014)

MGRPhoto said:


> It'd be nice if they implemented a common sense naming scheme and started fresh...
> FX1 - Full Size with built in grip - professional
> FX10 - Full Size without grip - pro backup / enthusiast
> FX100 - Mid Size without grip - entry level
> ...



Dude, come off it man--that's wayyyyyyy too logical and rational a lineup. This is Nikon we're talkin' 'bout. Nippon Kogaku!!!

Nikon is run by a bunch of out-of-touch old Japanese executives who don't give as rat's a** about what customers really want.

Besides, your lineup is only seven models....Nikon USA has *17 models listed* right now!!!  DSLR and HDSLR Cameras | Nikon Digital SLR Cameras & Compact D-SLR Cameras

Good Lawd Almighty-*seventeen models*!


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## runnah (Feb 6, 2014)

MGRPhoto said:


> It'd be nice if they implemented a common sense naming scheme and started fresh...
> FX1 - Full Size with built in grip - professional
> FX10 - Full Size without grip - pro backup / enthusiast
> FX100 - Mid Size without grip - entry level
> ...



Forum traffic would drop dramatically if there was a simple, easy to follow model lineup.

"What camera should I get? Oh this one".


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## MGRPhoto (Feb 6, 2014)

17 models.... I know I've seen that number browsing the site before but I never really thought about how ridiculous it is. You're right runnah. It's no wonder I see so many "What camera should I get?" thread in the Nikon section.


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## D-B-J (Feb 6, 2014)

MGRPhoto said:


> It'd be nice if they implemented a common sense naming scheme and started fresh...
> FX1 - Full Size with built in grip - professional
> FX10 - Full Size without grip - pro backup / enthusiast
> FX100 - Mid Size without grip - entry level
> ...



I'll take an FX10


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## MGRPhoto (Feb 6, 2014)

D-B-J said:


> MGRPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > It'd be nice if they implemented a common sense naming scheme and started fresh...
> ...



lol me too! And a DX10 to go with it


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## robbins.photo (Feb 6, 2014)

Derrel said:


> MGRPhoto said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Watch about an hour or so worth of Japanese TV.  Then it suddenly all starts to make a weird kind of sense.


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## BillM (Feb 6, 2014)

This is the internet, how dare you use common sense and logic !!!! 

Sorry MGR but we're going to have to tie a rock to you and toss you in the well, you might be a witch


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## coastalconn (Feb 6, 2014)

Derrel said:


> About two weeks ago I guess, MatthewO, a TPF bird shooter, broke down and bought himself a D7100...within a week, he did a post here about how much BETTER the camera performs on birds in flight, and in general, with his 500mm f/4 VR and or 500 + TC combo... He seems to think that the D7100 focuses better than the D800 does, AND he seems to think the image quality is better with the D7100...I thought that was interesting, but not "all that" surprising.



I think Matt was on the fence and then I sent him a raw file.  The D7100 is surprisingly good at high ISO for a DX camera...  I have had many debates with people about FX vs DX for bird photography and I still feel the D7100 is the best camera right now for it.  It puts the most pixels on your subject if you have a good enough lens to resolve the detail.   



MGRPhoto said:


> I saw he compared it to the D800 but did he say it was better than a D300s? I've used all three but I haven't used the D800 and D7100 with the same lens in the same conditions side by side like I have with the D7100 and D300s. While the D7100 is superior in many ways I thought they were about the same in AF performance. I really couldn't feel any significant improvement in the D7100. That being said I've always been blown away by the excellent performance of the D300s so obviously I feel the same way about the D7100. I'll ultimately break down and get one as well or the D7200. I'm not going to be happy about not being able to use my 10-pin lighting equipment though....



At base ISO (or under 400) in a setting where you are not cropping, I don't think you will see much difference between the D300/s and the D7100.  The big difference is higher ISO and cropping.  Like in bird photography, that's why I haven't shot with my d300 since I got the D7100, even though I like everything about the D300 better.  The sensor is really that much better..


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## Derrel (Feb 6, 2014)

Coastalconn, Your comments are very interesting both in this thread, and also in the Focus in the AFC mode thread. I looked up the Nikon D4 specifications on Nikons's site, and noticed that in its DX-crop mode, the D4 produces a 3,200 x 2128 pixel image in its largest size... which means a 6.8 megapixel image... the D7100 is 24 megapixels in its DX (24x16mm) image capture mode... it's increasing DX sensor pixel density like that (24 MP) that has reduced the allure of "flagship" cameras that have 12- or 16-MP sensors, at least for people who want to pack as many pixels as possible onto a subject.


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## skiboarder72 (Feb 7, 2014)

As a current owner/user of a D4, I really don't see the need for the update. An extra stop of ISO, (it's already so ridiculously good), more adjustable white balance settings (I set this in post), and 60fps 1080p (have only shot video a few times) don't really get me all excited to drop another 6k.  Now if Nikon can spread out the autofocus points farther to the edge of the focusing screen, or implement some type of wireless flash system (a la canon rt-600) THEN I'd be interested.


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## MGRPhoto (Feb 7, 2014)

skiboarder72 said:


> As a current owner/user of a D4, I really don't see the need for the update. An extra stop of ISO, (it's already so ridiculously good), more adjustable white balance settings (I set this in post), and 60fps 1080p (have only shot video a few times) don't really get me all excited to drop another 6k.  Now if Nikon can spread out the autofocus points farther to the edge of the focusing screen, or implement some type of wireless flash system (a la canon rt-600) THEN I'd be interested.



I don't think the improvement to the top end base ISO are always what's important. Usually cleaner lower base ISOs comes along with pushing the upper limit which is what people care about more. Having ISO 800 as clean as ISO 200 a few years ago is a pretty big win.


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## Derrel (Feb 12, 2014)

According to Nikon RUmors, the upcoming Nikon D4s is listed by Adorama as a 24-megapixel camera, with up to 11 frames per second and "HD", as in some type of HD video...

Here's the Nikon Rumors announcement of the Adorama listing: Nikon D4s listed at Adorama as a 24MP camera | Nikon Rumors


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## TheLost (Feb 12, 2014)

Derrel said:


> According to Nikon RUmors, the upcoming Nikon D4s is listed by Adorama as a 24-megapixel camera, with up to 11 frames per second and "HD", as in some type of HD video...
> 
> Here's the Nikon Rumors announcement of the Adorama listing: Nikon D4s listed at Adorama as a 24MP camera | Nikon Rumors



I would pay $6k for that...


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## MGRPhoto (Feb 12, 2014)

Derrel said:


> According to Nikon RUmors, the upcoming Nikon D4s is listed by Adorama as a 24-megapixel camera, with up to 11 frames per second and "HD", as in some type of HD video...
> 
> Here's the Nikon Rumors announcement of the Adorama listing: Nikon D4s listed at Adorama as a 24MP camera | Nikon Rumors



Everyone that has provided credible rumor information thinks that is a typo on Adorama's site though. Including the NikonRumors admin who posted that.


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## Mach0 (Feb 12, 2014)

Derrel said:


> According to Nikon RUmors, the upcoming Nikon D4s is listed by Adorama as a 24-megapixel camera, with up to 11 frames per second and "HD", as in some type of HD video...  Here's the Nikon Rumors announcement of the Adorama listing: Nikon D4s listed at Adorama as a 24MP camera | Nikon Rumors



It's like an updated d3x that shines in low light


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## Coasty (Feb 12, 2014)

Derrel said:


> According to Nikon RUmors, the upcoming Nikon D4s is listed by Adorama as a 24-megapixel camera, with up to 11 frames per second and "HD", as in some type of HD video...
> 
> Here's the Nikon Rumors announcement of the Adorama listing: Nikon D4s listed at Adorama as a 24MP camera | Nikon Rumors



Nikon Rumors? Nikon Rumors? The same Nikon Rumors that is always telling the specifications of the wonderful new D400 that is just around the corner? The D400 that Nikon has to release soon, probably at the next Photomeggacameracon? I take everything Nikon Rumors says with three handfuls of wasabi peas.

Gotta go, the UPS guy is here with the Unicorns I bought last week.


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## robbins.photo (Feb 12, 2014)

Coasty said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> > According to Nikon RUmors, the upcoming Nikon D4s is listed by Adorama as a 24-megapixel camera, with up to 11 frames per second and "HD", as in some type of HD video...
> ...



No this is the other Nikon rumors - the ones that swear that the moon landing was fake.



Sent from my LG-LG730 using Tapatalk


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## Derrel (Feb 12, 2014)

Virtually EVERYTHING I have seen listed on the major-major web sites in terms of Nikon camera bodies has proven to be an accurate "accidental" [ ???? ] pre-release "Leak". This was not some Danish one-man photo shop....this was an Adorama web listing...when those have happened in the past, they have been the actual item, "leaked" by (cough,cough) "*accident.*" 

Of course, this could be the one, single instance where Adorama's pre-release "accidental" leak on a new Nikon body will prove to be wrong. But, uhhhh, come on people...the D3x was 24MP...the D600 was 24MP, the D610 is 24MP...11 frames per second seems totally reasonable...Canon can do it already...at the flagship level, the electronics and the card write mechanism and the internal buffer, EVERYTHING, on the NIkon flagships, is designed for FAST throughput...this is why I really doubt the Adorama accidental listing of this product (cough,cough) will prove to be inaccurate. 

Of course, it's possible that Nikon will not make a fourth camera that uses a 24 MP sensor...this could be a hoax. But I have a suspicion it's not...


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## brian_f2.8 (Feb 12, 2014)

I have heard from a friend who's friend is using the D4s right now in Sochi. Its 16mp not 24. Time will tell. 

Im more interested in the other rumor of a new mirror-less Nikon camera, it has the red swoosh and a df aperture dial. Im going to speculate that Nikon realizes their Df model was a flop. Fuji has gain a lot of attention with their X-T1. Maybe Nikon has decided to go with this rangefinder look. 

The only thing that I truly believe is what I see and what is on the shelf.


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## Derrel (Feb 12, 2014)

Could Adorama be trying to "FUD" or "freeze" potential buyers of other, lower-profit cameras by slipping a D4s listing out there??? Sort of a way to stop people from buying, say, a low-profit Sony A7 or A7r, and hoping for a wave of wealthy amateur and top-level pros who have $6k (or more, God forbid!) to plunk down on a D4s in the early, bragging rights period? I wonder if Adorama has a big order already in on D4s cameras?


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## runnah (Feb 13, 2014)

Derrel said:


> Could Adorama be trying to "FUD" or "freeze" potential buyers of other, lower-profit cameras by slipping a D4s listing out there??? Sort of a way to stop people from buying, say, a low-profit Sony A7 or A7r, and hoping for a wave of wealthy amateur and top-level pros who have $6k (or more, God forbid!) to plunk down on a D4s in the early, bragging rights period? I wonder if Adorama has a big order already in on D4s cameras?



Maybe I am wrong but I would think that a majority of d4s customers would be the top tier professionals. $6k is a bit steep for even the most professional amateur.


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## Derrel (Feb 13, 2014)

Actually wealthy amateurs are the biggest buyers of high-end pro gear...they kind of prop up the market...


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## TheLost (Feb 13, 2014)

Coasty said:


> Nikon Rumors? Nikon Rumors? The same Nikon Rumors that is always telling the specifications of the wonderful new D400 that is just around the corner? The D400 that Nikon has to release soon, probably at the next Photomeggacameracon? I take everything Nikon Rumors says with three handfuls of wasabi peas.
> 
> Gotta go, the UPS guy is here with the Unicorns I bought last week.



Actually... Nikon Rumors has been saying for YEARS that there has been no word on a D400.    They have been extremely accurate over the past few years.

As a matter of fact.. Even in the D4s story Derrel posted NikonTumors talks about how they think Adorama was wong, and everything they have heard says 16mp.


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## runnah (Feb 13, 2014)

Derrel said:


> Actually wealthy amateurs are the biggest buyers of high-end pro gear...they kind of prop up the market...



Some day I'd like to drop $6k on a hobby.


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## TheLost (Feb 13, 2014)

TheLost said:


> I predict we'll see a Nikon D1000 (low cost, small body, mirrorless competing) body long before we see a D400/D????.
> Nikon to release new entry level DSLR camera, "revised" compact cameras | Nikon Rumors
> 
> Nikon's primary business is consumer cameras.



BAM!!!

Who called it?!?!?! oh.. wait.. that was me!!

D2300 should be released in May..
Nikon D2300 and Nikon Coolpix P8000 camera rumors | Nikon Rumors


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## brian_f2.8 (Feb 13, 2014)

6k on a camera is a lot if you are a hobbyist. People who just get into photography want good equipment to feel accepted by other photographers or want the attention from others. I was at Starbucks the other day and a guy had a D7000 gripped, with a 70-200 and a sb 910 sitting on the table showing off. The dial was set to Automatic. Maybe he was holding it for his wife who is a photographer I have no clue, didnt stick around. My point is that people will buy anything if the product is marketed correctly.

And if people go out and buy a Harley 12k+ or a sport bike 10k+, 6k isnt that much. 

Ok Ill admit it, I want a Leica M9. I want something unique that no one has and I want to learn how to use a rangefinder.


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## Derrel (Feb 13, 2014)

TheLost said:


> TheLost said:
> 
> 
> > I predict we'll see a Nikon D1000 (low cost, small body, mirrorless competing) body long before we see a D400/D????.
> ...



Nikon Rumors writes, "There is a possibility that the D2300 will be the first DSLR-like camera without an optical viewfinder".

What do you suppose that means? Any ideas? EVF? some sort of hybrid, EVF camera maybe with semi-tranparent mirror like Sony used?


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