# Why teachers drink



## limr (Mar 26, 2014)

&#8220;Meaning, make more higher fines. More police alert of who's littering and who's not. Make a bill about it. If  not people are just going to keep on doing it. They need to take more action about this trash and littering. They meaning the law, president, police, the house of Rep, the 3 branches, all the above need to take more action and be more serious. If not people will not care nor pay attention and just keep throwing trash and littering everywhere. Something really has to be done soon that is my opinion.&#8221;

The current batch of papers in front of me aren't quite this bad, but I still feel the need to pour myself a stiff drink!


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## limr (Mar 26, 2014)

In other news, this is my 2,000th post. :cheer:


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## ratssass (Mar 26, 2014)

...yer jusdiphyin'                                              happy 2000


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## limr (Mar 26, 2014)

ratssass said:


> ...yer jusdiphyin'                                              happy 2000



Who, me?? 

Y'know what gin goes well with? Sammiches.


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## ratssass (Mar 26, 2014)

i see what you did there........lol


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## robbins.photo (Mar 26, 2014)

limr said:


> &#8220;Meaning, make more higher fines. More police alert of who's littering and who's not. Make a bill about it. If  not people are just going to keep on doing it. They need to take more action about this trash and littering. They meaning the law, president, police, the house of Rep, the 3 branches, all the above need to take more action and be more serious. If not people will not care nor pay attention and just keep throwing trash and littering everywhere. Something really has to be done soon that is my opinion.&#8221;



Well, to quote the great philosopher that is Gump, "Stupid is as Stupid does.. "  lol


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## limr (Mar 26, 2014)

ratssass said:


> i see what you did there........lol



:mrgreen:



robbins.photo said:


> limr said:
> 
> 
> > &#8220;Meaning, make more higher fines. More police alert of who's littering and who's not. Make a bill about it. If  not people are just going to keep on doing it. They need to take more action about this trash and littering. They meaning the law, president, police, the house of Rep, the 3 branches, all the above need to take more action and be more serious. If not people will not care nor pay attention and just keep throwing trash and littering everywhere. Something really has to be done soon that is my opinion.&#8221;
> ...



I tend to use a different quote with my students: "Life is hard. It's harder when you're stupid." 

(Oft credited to John Wayne, but apparently it is traced back to Steven Keats playing Jackie Brown in a 1973 film, _The Friends of Eddie Coyle. _Now you know.)


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## robbins.photo (Mar 26, 2014)

limr said:


> ratssass said:
> 
> 
> > i see what you did there........lol
> ...



A buddy of mine was big on quoting the Dalai Lama for a while.  One night he quotes the Lama again like it's something truly deep when really it's pretty much something you'd find in your average fortune cookie.  His girlfriend is pretty fed up with it and they start arguing about how wise these stuff really is, so he asks me what I think.  I told him well anything you had to hump your keester up a huge mountain to get is bound to sound pretty wise at the time.  Face it, if the guy had a blog nobody would give a crap what he had to say. 

Haven't heard from my buddy since.. lol.  Oh well.


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## limr (Mar 26, 2014)

Your story reminds me of a commercial for LifeSavers from... - I think it was in the 80s. A guy climbed a really tall mountain, gets to the snowy top to ask the guru what the meaning of life is. The guru says it's some flavor of LifeSavers. They guy says something like, "I'm sorry, but cherry LifeSavers are not the meaning of life." The guru says, "They're not? Or is it Wint-o-green?"


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## terri (Mar 27, 2014)

limr said:


> Meaning, make more higher fines. More police alert of who's littering and who's not. Make a bill about it. If  not people are just going to keep on doing it. They need to take more action about this trash and littering. They meaning the law, president, police, the house of Rep, the 3 branches, all the above need to take more action and be more serious. If not people will not care nor pay attention and just keep throwing trash and littering everywhere. Something really has to be done soon that is my opinion.
> 
> The current batch of papers in front of me aren't quite this bad, but I still feel the need to pour myself a stiff drink!



You have to assign a _grade_ to this plonk?     :shock:     

I am so sorry.   Honestly.   How do you address this?   What can you say?   

Bottoms up, sister!


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## minicoop1985 (Mar 27, 2014)

Like my dad used to sing to me as a kid: "You can't eat rutabagas in the morning, you know that it just ain't right."


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## Gavjenks (Mar 27, 2014)

robbins.photo said:


> Face it, if the guy had a blog nobody would give a crap what he had to say.


https://twitter.com/DalaiLama
https://www.facebook.com/DalaiLama
http://instagram.com/dalailama
Apparently at least 8.64 million people still care (still a smidgeon below Ludacris, though)


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## mmaria (Mar 27, 2014)

limr said:


> &#8220;Meaning, make more higher fines. More police alert of who's littering and who's not. Make a bill about it. If  not people are just going to keep on doing it. They need to take more action about this trash and littering. They meaning the law, president, police, the house of Rep, the 3 branches, all the above need to take more action and be more serious. If not people will not care nor pay attention and just keep throwing trash and littering everywhere. Something really has to be done soon that is my opinion.&#8221;


I'm so relieved it's not you, drinking and thinking and talking like this...
 :hug::


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## Gavjenks (Mar 27, 2014)

This guy would give your student an A+:



Maybe sad Native American dude can get his own twitter, like the Dalai Lama, and team up with the police to get the ball rolling on that whole neighborhood litterer public police alert idea.


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## snerd (Mar 27, 2014)

My wife teaches remedial English at the college level. She feels your pain.


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## Overread (Mar 27, 2014)

Wait I thought you taught university/college level students?


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## limr (Mar 27, 2014)

terri said:


> limr said:
> 
> 
> > Meaning, make more higher fines. More police alert of who's littering and who's not. Make a bill about it. If  not people are just going to keep on doing it. They need to take more action about this trash and littering. They meaning the law, president, police, the house of Rep, the 3 branches, all the above need to take more action and be more serious. If not people will not care nor pay attention and just keep throwing trash and littering everywhere. Something really has to be done soon that is my opinion.
> ...



That particular bit of plonk (awesome word!) came from a placement essay I read. We're a community college so with no entrance requirements, we have students take a placement exam for math, reading and writing. 60-70% of them need remedial work before taking basic college-level classes. Some of them literally take years to get out of the remedial level.

So thankfully, I didn't have to grade this on a A-F scale. This student clearly got placed in remedial writing - can't remember if we put her in the first level or not. Sadly, she probably went to the second level because, "It didn't suck enough." (It's one of our criteria for placing some of these essays!)



Gavjenks said:


> This guy would give your student an A+:
> View attachment 69536
> 
> Maybe sad Native American dude can get his own twitter, like the Dalai Lama, and team up with the police to get the ball rolling on that whole neighborhood litterer public police alert idea.



The crying Indian! I remember him well. The problem is that he is not the law, president, police, house of Rep, or the 3 branches, so I'm not sure what he can do. 



snerd said:


> My wife teaches remedial English at the college level. She feels your pain.



"Pain" sort of covers it  I've taught the remedial classes for native speakers and it is soul-crushing. I stopped asking for those classes because I just couldn't take it. I've also taught English 101 and it's better, but still not that great. I recently stopped teaching those classes too, but more about political changes in the department that resulted in a lot more micromanaging of the curriculum, and I do NOT get paid enough to deal with that bullsh** so I'm sticking to my ESL remedial writing.



Overread said:


> Wait I thought you taught university/college level students?



I do. Isn't it sad?

My own students have tons of issues, but they aren't native speakers so the reasons are understandable and much more easily fixed. Well, most of the time. Unfortunately with some students, being a non-native speaker isn't their only difficulty. They'd probably have just as much issue in their native languages.

Here are a few more I've collected over the years, either from placement essays or from my own students' essays: (from a blog post Where do I even start? | As a Linguist...) (All these were from native speakers.)

1. Facts or logic are optional.


Animals shouldnt be used for medical experiments. Although they arent real people, its morrally wrong.
Even if it has brought positive and negative effects to our lives it shows that either way it has been bad.
Not many people go by this trend, but I see it in most people.
In reality, no one is naturally six feet tall.
From the age of five, my mother became a single parent.

2. Thank you, Captain Obvious!


Animals do take a huge part on our menu of choices meat-wise.
Life is offered to so many people in this world.
An education can help you with your reading and writing because without it we wouldnt be able to read or write.
I now know about global warming from earth science and the different rocks that are important to society. Like who knew rocks would be something major on earth. Did you know?
Next, knowing what is going on in the world today helps us to be more aware of what is going on out there.

3. WTF?


I feel you create your own future, so why be mad or evil?
Life is a grand aspect that every human must attend as they are brought into this world.
When I was about 16 years old, my mind was childish enough to make the right decisions that wont affect me or my future.
Lifes head is the basketball and Im the basket.
For example, life is a challenge it shows you how far you can take it beyond life. Just remember, one day you will meet your match you cant always win.

4. Oh irony, you fickle mistress.


The purpose of education is to make ourselves smater and skilled.
Although all course are important. The most one for me was the english course specifically grammar and punctuation.

5. Would you like a dictionary?


Next, showing someone love helps them build their self of steam up.
Then it affects everyone because the ultra violent rays can cause skin cancer.
Africa is probably the most struggling nation country dealing with HIV. (The word 'nation' was crossed out in the student's paper.)
 
6. Can you repeat that, please?


My goals in life may sound familiar to most young people who is fledgling at their beginning of educational start.
But no challenge comes easy, because a challenge is always challenging.
These elected officials are elected by the people of the state in which these elective officials are elected from the people.


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## mmaria (Mar 27, 2014)

Oh Leonore,

that was BRUTAL!!!!


LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you!!!


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## pgriz (Mar 27, 2014)

Ah, come on Leonore!  With material like that, you'd be a permanent fixture on the comedy standup circuit!


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## Braineack (Mar 27, 2014)

limr said:


> &#8220;Meaning, make more higher fines. More police alert of who's littering and who's not. Make a bill about it. If  not people are just going to keep on doing it. They need to take more action about this trash and littering. They meaning the law, president, police, the house of Rep, the 3 branches, all the above need to take more action and be more serious. If not people will not care nor pay attention and just keep throwing trash and littering everywhere. Something really has to be done soon that is my opinion.&#8221;



I just want to break this down, in this poorly written essay the author suggests:

1. We need to increase fines for littering.
2. We need to establish a list of litters
3. We need to establish a list of non-litters.
4. We need to draft some sort of Bill about litter.
5. People are going to continue to litter if we haven't done: 1, 2, 3, and 4.
6. The law, the President, the police, the HOR, the three branches (2 are redundant here), AND all of the above (all are redundant) needs to take action of sort, and be more serious about something.
7. People will throw trash EVERYWHERE unless: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 are followed.
8. Something, undefined, really has to be done soon.


I would give a failing grade for this.   If this isn't bad, I just hope you're a first grade teacher.


edit: i was going to guess the author was a female.  interesting.


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## runnah (Mar 27, 2014)

Y r u soooo meen?


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## Designer (Mar 27, 2014)

I sent a link to your blog to my son who is an aficionado of such.


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## ratssass (Mar 27, 2014)

"...when you are dead,it is only painful for others.It's the same when you are stupid."


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## limr (Mar 27, 2014)

Braineack said:


> I just want to break this down, in this poorly written essay the author suggests:
> 
> 1. We need to increase fines for littering.
> 2. We need to establish a list of litters
> ...



If that were an essay that was handed into me for a grade, yes, it would have failed. I am perfectly willing to put a failing grade on work that deserves it. Sadly, I appear to be in the minority of 'tough graders' in the college. :x My school won't even let me give minus grades for the course. I can give minus grades on assignments in my class, but when it comes time for their final grade, if a student's average is B- , I have to decide if it's a B or a C+ and most of the time it ends up as a B. It pisses me off.



runnah said:


> Y r u soooo meen?



FAIL!

I saved the best for last. This came from an essay a student wrote for me in an Eng 101 class several years ago. We were practicing categorization essays, so this student chose to write about types of pets and why people choose them. I had to save this essay. It cracks me up. I can't remember if I actually failed it or just asked him to revise it so I could at least give it a passing grade - not because of the grammar, which was fine, but because it was just so...so...well, judge for yourself.

The opening sentence: "Dogs,cats, and owls are three of the most common animals in the animal kingdom today."

Thesis statement: "Pets can behave differently according to how their owners train them, the time of day that they can be allowed to go outside, and the different kinds of foods that they consume every day."

My favorite paragraph: "All three of these common animals have different times of day that they are available to step outside.  Dogs are animals that are able to step outside roughly anytime of the day, or in the night. The reasons that they can step outside for exercise is to play with their owners, let their owners take daily and recommended walks with them, and to just play around with themselves.  Cats are animals that are roughly the same as dogs, but are probably split in some types of cats that like to step out in the day and who like to step out in the nighttime.  Most of the cat family certainly likes to come out in the daytime, but there are some members who like to come out into the nighttime.  Black cats, stray street cats and probably jaguars are the most likely of cats that dare the most to come out into the night life.  Owls are a completely different story.  Owls are the most common of animals to come out only into the nighttime of the world.  In the daytime, owls have very bad eyesight and do not even have a clue as to where they are going. They are also the most common of animals for getting the most exercise in the nighttime than any other animal."

Jaguars. Kills me, every time.

It's organized, it's developed, it's grammatical, but...WTF?

I think I was drinking Maker's Mark for this one. He might have been as well. (Actually, he did have some issues, but they were social things, not learning disabilities.)


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## Designer (Mar 27, 2014)

Lowered!


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## Braineack (Mar 27, 2014)

I remember taking two courses at UoPhoenix.  We had to do a "group" assignment where basically each person contributed a part of a final paper.  One of my member's section was so bad, that after we turned it in, I emailed the "prof" and explained that I shouldn't be expected to have my grade suffer for work of others.  I i even researched and wrote her section on my own and submitted it as well.  Suffice to say I passed that class and I'm just glad my teammate will never be my doctor.


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## limr (Mar 27, 2014)

Braineack said:


> I remember taking two courses at UoPhoenix.  We had to do a "group" assignment where basically each person contributed a part of a final paper.  One of my member's section was so bad, that after we turned it in, I emailed the "prof" and explained that I shouldn't be expected to have my grade suffer for work of others.  I i even researched and wrote her section on my own and submitted it as well.  Suffice to say I passed that class and I'm just glad my teammate will never be my doctor.



I never gave group grades. When I taught Eng 102 (Intro to Literature), they would have group presentations at the end of the term. Basically, their groups would have to teach a lesson - choose a story, make up exercises, plan a lesson, etc. They'd get an overall grade on how their actual presentation was, but they each had to individually hand in a part of the assignment and be totally responsible for that. The grade was often an average of the two - so it was a way to get the weaker students to push a themselves a little harder to learn more and do better individually to help the group get a better grade, but it wouldn't bring the strong students down because their individual work would bring them up to a grade they deserved.


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## robbins.photo (Mar 27, 2014)

Gavjenks said:


> robbins.photo said:
> 
> 
> > Face it, if the guy had a blog nobody would give a crap what he had to say.
> ...



So what your saying here is the Dalai Lama needs to step it up a notch and put more "ho's" in his videos?

Sent from my LG-LG730 using Tapatalk


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## limr (Mar 27, 2014)

Designer said:


> Lowered!



You mean lower the grade to C+? It would depend on the average. I teach writing, so of course, their essays and written assignments are the bulk of their course grade. Let's say their writing average was an 81-82, but they weren't a good participator or they missed some things. That grade would get lowered to a C+ once I average in other factors. But if someone has a 78-79 writing average but has been busting their hump to get up to that level and they are really active in class, never miss anything...then that student probably ends up with an 80-81 average and a B. But it's just not fair because really, they're both B- students.


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## mmaria (Mar 27, 2014)

How old are your students?


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## Designer (Mar 27, 2014)

limr said:


> Designer said:
> 
> 
> > Lowered!
> ...



Just say it out loud.


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## table1349 (Mar 27, 2014)

This is not a good reason to consume alcohol.  

This is.  :mrgreen:


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## limr (Mar 27, 2014)

mmaria said:


> How old are your students?



Most of them are college-aged more or less - early 20s, maybe mid-20s for some of them. Especially in the ENG 101 classes. The classes that I teach now - remedial writing for non-native speakers - have a wider range of ages. I've had students that range from 18 to 58-60 or so.



Designer said:


> limr said:
> 
> 
> > Designer said:
> ...



Oh duh! *facepalm* Well, that was slow of me :blushing:


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## Overread (Mar 27, 2014)

See I totally get non-english or some from bad schools having bad writing skills and its oft the case that in ones home country one can end up picking up how to write more than one formally learns the structure of the language (which is sometimes why foreign students who do can master a higher level of technical competence). 

Though I'm really confused on that pet one - I can only assume the poor student doesn't come from a countryside background - I know those townies are strange strange things in those big urban centres.


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## Derrel (Mar 27, 2014)

I am sort of a night owl, so I want  to get myself a pet jaguar.


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## Gavjenks (Mar 27, 2014)

limr said:


> The opening sentence: "Dogs,cats, and owls are three of the most common animals in the animal kingdom today."
> 
> Thesis statement: "Pets can behave differently according to how their owners train them, the time of day that they can be allowed to go outside, and the different kinds of foods that they consume every day."
> 
> ...


I really want to make a detailed powerpoint presentation to go with this essay. With Venn diagrams and a frequency visualization with like 50 owls and jaguars and a lone squirrel, and owls on treadmills and images of laser scanners that identify DNA before rejecting or permitting outdoor access. Or maybe it's some sort of mitochondiral process.


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## robbins.photo (Mar 27, 2014)

Derrel said:


> I am sort of a night owl, so I want to get myself a pet jaguar.



Jaguar | eBay

There you go brother.  Knock yourself out.. lol


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## robbins.photo (Mar 27, 2014)

Gavjenks said:


> limr said:
> 
> 
> > The opening sentence: "Dogs,cats, and owls are three of the most common animals in the animal kingdom today."
> ...



Sounds like a great proposal for a government grant.  Sadly.. lol


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## limr (Mar 27, 2014)

Gavjenks said:


> limr said:
> 
> 
> > The opening sentence: "Dogs,cats, and owls are three of the most common animals in the animal kingdom today."
> ...



That would probably be kinda awesome, actually! If you ever get bored, I'll send you the other two body paragraphs so you have more data to analyze


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## runnah (Mar 27, 2014)

Gavjenks said:


> I really want to make a detailed powerpoint presentation to go with this essay. With Venn diagrams and a frequency visualization with like 50 owls and jaguars and a lone squirrel, and owls on treadmills and images of laser scanners that identify DNA before rejecting or permitting outdoor access. Or maybe it's some sort of mitochondiral process.



lulz, wut bro, u b cray cray


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## terri (Mar 27, 2014)

> That particular bit of plonk (awesome word!) came from a placement essay  I read. We're a community college so with no entrance requirements, we  have students take a placement exam for math, reading and writing.  60-70% of them need remedial work before taking basic college-level  classes. Some of them literally take years to get out of the remedial  level.
> 
> So thankfully, I didn't have to grade this on a A-F scale. This student  clearly got placed in remedial writing - can't remember if we put her in  the first level or not. Sadly, she probably went to the second level  because, "It didn't suck enough." (It's one of our criteria for placing  some of these essays!)



Okay, that helps a bit.   As in, kinda-sorta.   The only way to find out where help is needed in these developmental classes is to get people to write stuff.   Too bad you need a shot of something strong by the end of the day to get through reading it.     

But bless you, and all teachers, for continuing the struggle - especially where our ESL students are concerned.   :thumbup:


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## limr (Mar 27, 2014)

Overread said:


> See I totally get non-english or some from bad schools having bad writing skills and its oft the case that in ones home country one can end up picking up how to write more than one formally learns the structure of the language (which is sometimes why foreign students who do can master a higher level of technical competence).
> 
> Though I'm really confused on that pet one - I can only assume the poor student doesn't come from a countryside background - I know those townies are strange strange things in those big urban centres.



The native speakers who end up in remedial work are generally there for two reasons: 
a) they don't have strong language, writing, or critical thinking skills because of a lack of schooling or a lack of natural talent/ability; or
b) they don't give a crap and have never put any effort.

The first group has a chance at improvement if they work at it. It's hard to overcome 12 years of poor schooling, but it can be and has been done. Even someone who doesn't have a lot of ability can still show improvement.

The second group has a chance too, but a lifetime of not caring or having no consequences is harder to overcome. Many of them still don't want to be in school, but their parents are forcing them to go. 

I feel bad for the first group of students, and as painful as some of the writing may be, if they have the right attitude and do their work, then I can deal with them. That's one of the reasons why I stick to the international students. They are much more likely to have a positive attitude and a willingness to bust their asses to get better. It can still be emotionally draining. I once taught a class of 21 people - 20 of them were from the same three villages in Ecuador, and most of them could not read in Spanish. (This was just an ESL language class, not a writing class.) If all I did was teach them a couple of phrases and get them to stop saying, "I am agree" then that was fine.

It's hard when you see the students who have really hit the limit of their ability, though. They work hard and are so hopeful, but sometimes it's just clear that they're never really going to "get it." And yet, we keep trying.

But that second group of students? The ones who miss every other class and think they can just make up all the work at the end of the term, and I'll just smile and accept work that is months past the due date? The ones who think I'm too stupid to catch them when they copy and paste from Wikipedia and try to pass it off as an essay? No mercy.


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## Overread (Mar 27, 2014)

limr said:


> But that second group of students? The ones who miss every other class and think they can just make up all the work at the end of the term, and I'll just smile and accept work that is months past the due date? The ones who think I'm too stupid to catch them when they copy and paste from Wikipedia and try to pass it off as an essay? No mercy.



No mercy agreed - but I often think that the latter group are victims as well; just of a much harder to deal with problem. The lack of caring often is, in my view, often not the cause of the problem, but the symptom of others. Sometimes they did try and failed when they tried and lost such a huge amount of self confidence that not caring was their mental safety net to losing even more. By schooling themselves to not care they avoid the pain of failure - however once they've been like that for a fairly long while its very hard to get them to overcome that structure. 

In others it can also be that a very freeform and open ended job life that we have built (that is you are not going to follow your parents and half the time don't even have the chance to these days) and that can be daunting to many who feel that they've got no core skills and thus nothing to offer (or that the core skills they do have are not desired). A lack of direction and ambition can very quickly end up with a person not caring. 

I'm sure there are other triggers that setup this kind of person and when they gather into groups each ones symptoms reinforce the others (despite how we like to demean it by calling it mindless as a sheep, we all often end up following the herd by intent or instinct). So then you've a whole collective group to battle.


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## limr (Mar 27, 2014)

Overread said:


> limr said:
> 
> 
> > But that second group of students? The ones who miss every other class and think they can just make up all the work at the end of the term, and I'll just smile and accept work that is months past the due date? The ones who think I'm too stupid to catch them when they copy and paste from Wikipedia and try to pass it off as an essay? No mercy.
> ...



You're absolutely right. They've never had to put effort into anything so they don't know what to do when it's suddenly required. And yes, they can be helped, but they have to be open to it. I always tell them that if they truly want to improve and are ready to do their work, then I'd be more than happy to work with them. And quite frankly, I've seen some of those students open up, and once they get a little confidence, they start trying harder. I had a student once who was convinced, absolutely convinced that she could never complete an essay. She didn't even try the first one I assigned. I worked with her on the second. It wasn't good, but at least she was trying. Because she was honestly trying, I kept working with her. By the end of the semester, she was writing complete essays. You should have seen the look on her face when she realized she passed the class when she had been SO CONVINCED that she would fail miserably. I've never seen someone so happy to get a C.

But with so much of my energy going to the students that DO care already, I have nothing left to give to the ones who don't even want to help themselves. It's just my fight. I'm there to reach the ones that I can, but I can't get them all. And I've been doing this long enough to be able to identify which ones are honestly trying and which ones are just trying to bullsh*t their way through class.


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## The_Traveler (Mar 27, 2014)

limr said:


> I tend to use a different quote with my students: "Life is hard. It's harder when you're stupid."
> (Oft credited to John Wayne, but apparently it is traced back to Steven Keats playing Jackie Brown in a 1973 film, _The Friends of Eddie Coyle. _Now you know.)



Great movie


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## limr (Mar 27, 2014)

Appropriate timing. About 2 minutes ago, I put a big fat F on a plagiarized paper.


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## Redeyejedi (Mar 27, 2014)

"Lifes head is the basketball and Im the basket."

this made my day, thanks for that!!

one i heard on television:
Leno was going around D.C or perhaps it was NY, showing people a sundial. few knew what it was or what it's used for, but one answer had me giggling. his response was, "yea, i know what that is. it's what sailors used to use to find the way home; it's an old modern compass."
i assume he was actually referring to a sextant but his surety and confidence when he said old modern compass was truly priceless.


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## runnah (Mar 27, 2014)

This will cheer you up. Naughty language.


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## runnah (Mar 27, 2014)

If that doesn't work try this...


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## limr (Mar 27, 2014)

Definitely more in the mood for Van Halen! :mrgreen:  That drum beat at the start, man. Oof.

The scene from "Dangerous Minds" that has always stuck with me was a scene when she was at the desk, clearly feeling defeated that it was so hard to get them to do anything. She told them to take out their vocabulary and they started moaning. She said something like, "Fine, don't do it." One kid in the back said, "Oh c'mon. You wouldn't let us get away with not doing our vocabulary, right?" So she played along and told his he's right, that they had to do their vocabulary.

That is a very familiar feeling. Some days the fight just feels too hard hard and you don't know if you have it in you to fight for yourself AND for them. Then something makes you realize that if you give up, so do they.


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## limr (Mar 27, 2014)

Wait, what happened to the "Dangerous Minds" clip?


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## snerd (Mar 27, 2014)




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## limr (Mar 27, 2014)

Love that movie, snerd.


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## oldhippy (Mar 27, 2014)

A cute story for the evening break.


There once was a happy little fly buzzing around a barn, when she came upon a large pile of fresh cow manure. Since it had been hours since her last meal and she was feeling hunger pangs, she flew down to the irresistible delicacy and began to munch out.


She ate ..... and ate ... and then ... she ate some more!


Finally, she decided she'd had plenty. She washed her face with her tiny front legs, belched a few times, then attempted to fly away.


But alas ....she had pigged out far too much and could not get off the ground.


She looked around wondering what to do about this unpleasant situation when she spotted a pitchfork leaning upright against the barn wall.


She'd found a solution! She realized that if she could just become airborne she'd be able to fly again.


So, she painstakingly, climbed to the top of the handle. Once there, she took a deep breath, spread her tiny fly wings, and leaped confidently into the air. She dropped like a rock and splattered all over the floor...


Dead fly...


The moral of this sad story?


Never fly off the handle when you know you're full of ****!


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## limr (Mar 27, 2014)

Cute!


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## robbins.photo (Mar 27, 2014)

limr said:


> Appropriate timing. About 2 minutes ago, I put a big fat F on a plagiarized paper.



Which leads to an interesting question, do you think you might have saved their self-esteem by using a tiny, skinny F instead?


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## limr (Mar 27, 2014)

robbins.photo said:


> limr said:
> 
> 
> > Appropriate timing. About 2 minutes ago, I put a big fat F on a plagiarized paper.
> ...



Yeah, not really worrying about their self-esteem right about now


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## kundalini (Mar 27, 2014)




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## bribrius (Mar 27, 2014)

I don't know. I was a substitute once. junior high math and science. And teachers suck, they go out of work, hardly leave any lesson plans. you walk in a class not knowing a thing of what is going on. Then the teachers don't know when they might get back, so you don't know how long you will even have this class. which at that pay grade is pretty much volunteer work. They didn't call me in anymore, I think because a child complained I was bouncing the basketball while I gave them a 7th grad math test. I guess I was distracting. And I was a smoker. so out side of school the kids would see me, and try to bum a cigarette off me. I didn't give them any. But I did notice some missing out of my pack in the teachers desk. Then I had one kid leave with a bathroom pass. I didn't notice he was gone until the next day when he walked in and put it back on the chalkboard.. That could have been why they stopped calling me back. But come on, you can barely take attendance anyway. you don't know any of them. They should just number the desks so you can call out number five, number eleven etc.


Eventually the real teacher comes back, sometimes to leave little notes "can you have them do this this this this , work on this this this," then they disappear for another week. so you are just kind of sitting there thinking, "crap. this is her class why don't she get her azz back here and have them do this, this this this this.......and no, im not bringing home this stack of crap to correct that lazy biatch"


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## limr (Mar 27, 2014)

Hubris.


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## kundalini (Mar 27, 2014)

Teachers are like police men, fire men and EMS.  Doing a job that I prefer them to do.


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## limr (Mar 27, 2014)

kundalini, first Thorogood and now J.Geils?? Rockin' my world, man


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## kundalini (Mar 27, 2014)

Old school baby.  Can only do what I know.  I passed on the


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## bribrius (Mar 27, 2014)

kundalini said:


> Teachers are like police men, fire men and EMS. Doing a job that I prefer them to do.


totally true. some teachers are great. A lot of them, not so much. Left wingers that take teaching jobs because they couldn't make it doing anything else and get the summer off and every snow day and holiday.. 
A lot of the drug heads and non workers in the sixties became teachers in the seventies and eighties. And it shows still. The highers go to ibm manager job. The lower goes to the public school system. The education system in the u.s. is defunct with union paid teachers. There is that rare, great teacher however (if you can keep the administration and government and whatever new curriculum they pull out of their behind out of the way).

But while we are on the subject of ems, police and fire departments, im all about cutting budgets.....


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## limr (Mar 27, 2014)

Stop. Just stop. Truly.

Not you, kundalini. I need some more old school groove to get the bad taste out of my mouth. Got any P Funk handy?


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## bribrius (Mar 27, 2014)

limr said:


> Stop. Just stop. Truly.
> 
> Not you, kundalini. I need some more old school groove to get the bad taste out of my mouth. Got any P Funk handy?


okay. okay. Nothing personal. You are probably great. Nothing against you.  suppose this hit a nerve with me. im pondering yanking my kids from school at the moment and going home school and private school.


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## kundalini (Mar 27, 2014)

bribrius said:


> totally true. some teachers are great. A lot of them, not so much. Left wingers that take teaching jobs because they couldn't make it doing anything else and get the summer off and every snow day and holiday..
> A lot of the drug heads and non workers in the sixties became teachers in the seventies and eighties. And it shows still. The highers go to ibm manager job. The lower goes to the public school system. The education system in the u.s. is defunct with union paid teachers. There is that rare, great teacher however (if you can keep the administration and government and whatever new curriculum they pull out of their behind out of the way).But while we are on the subject of ems, police and fire departments, im all about cutting budgets.....


Please stop while you are behind.  Your statement is full of holes and filled with bull$hit.  If it weren't for teachers, you wouldn't be able to put together a comprehensive sentence.  Oh wait........





limr said:


> Not you, kundalini. I need some more old school groove to get the bad taste out of my mouth. Got any P Funk handy?


One of my top 5 live albums ever.  And that is a mouthfull.  Nothing to do with teaching, but here is a a little ditty about alcohol.


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## limr (Mar 27, 2014)

Look, I'm not saying that all teachers are saints. Of course there are good and bad ones. But a lot of teachers could do a much better job if they weren't getting hammered from all sides: students who can't pay attention to anything but their phones; parents who think their children's pee cures cancer and constantly interfere with the teacher's work; and an administration filled with people have never stepped foot in a classroom enforcing ineffectual policies handed down by the state legislature, also filled with people who have never stepped foot in a classroom.

It's no wonder that even the best teachers burn out fast.

And summers off? Try again.

Adequately compensated? Wrong again.

Private schools are not a panacea. Their students are paying clients, and if you're not careful, you might end up choosing a school for your kids run by people who are too afraid to enforce rules and standards because they want to keep their clients' money. I've seen plenty of crappy students who came from private schools. Honestly, it's probably a better idea to move to a rich school district and spend the money in property taxes instead of tuition.


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## limr (Mar 27, 2014)

kundalini said:


> One of my top 5 live albums ever.  And that is a mouthfull.  Nothing to do with teaching, but here is a a little ditty about alcohol.



That one totally hit the spot! :thumbup:


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## table1349 (Mar 27, 2014)

Nothing to do with alcohol but something to do with teaching.:mrgreen:


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## bribrius (Mar 27, 2014)

limr said:


> Look, I'm not saying that all teachers are saints. Of course there are good and bad ones. But a lot of teachers could do a much better job if they weren't getting hammered from all sides: students who can't pay attention to anything but their phones; parents who think their children's pee cures cancer and constantly interfere with the teacher's work; and an administration filled with people have never stepped foot in a classroom enforcing ineffectual policies handed down by the state legislature, also filled with people who have never stepped foot in a classroom.
> 
> It's no wonder that even the best teachers burn out fast.
> 
> ...


something to consider. I already pay quite a bit in taxes but....

I wanted to put my oldest into online school then on to prepartory. younger two homeschool is where im going with them. The oldest im having trouble with online school because we cant seem to get it through the democrats in the statehouse. They seemed determined to save our huge expensive overly administrated underachieving public daycare facility. I really am a supporter of private, charter, voucher school and online school. And I know most teachers don't make a high salary. But just the overhead on a public school system is insane with administration costs. I could be wrong, but I support these things because I believe we can have a much more efficient system, with much better educated children at a much lower expense. Teaching is changing as well.

The teacher is becoming less necessary but the classrooms are over crowded. The system in place now all the children have ipads and netbooks. They are self taught, in school with these devices. if they don't understand something, they are supposed to ask a peer. If they still cant figure it out, THEN they ask the teacher. The teacher has become the last resort in our new way of education. That isn't far off from just keeping them home and doing it online. Except, we are paying all this overhead.

Now the kids are eating breakfast and lunch in school, throw in study halls, gym, talking and goofing off time, how much time is actually spent learning? And most of that time is on a ipad so........it is becoming more a public babysitting service. 

I think the points trying to be made, is individual learning allows children to not be held back by others in a class. That parents are primarily responsible for their children. And that bussing children to a brick and mortar structure to use a ipad isn't logical. It isn't like we have little school houses now, and we consolidated systems trying to save money. Now we are bussing kids (and paying to bus kids) on half hour bus rides each way. Getting this through to the democrats we have in our statehouse isn't working however. And they are aren't to supportive of vouchers, charters, private, really anything but saving the public school monstrosity. which is probably one of the most expensive worst school systems in the developed world. so I guess im a little more involved than just a regular parent consider me biased.

I really was a substitute by the way. That was all true. I was a substitute in the same school I want to pull my oldest out of twenty years ago. course now it is worse. I send my child to a school that has video cameras everywhere and a full time cop on duty. Totally unnecessary in my mind. That isn't teaching or learning. it is something else. And expensive.


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## limr (Mar 27, 2014)

Oh, runnah beat you to that one, but I don't mind because I love that song and video.

I don't feel tardy.

Best.Line.Ever. I would totally forgive any student who came in late and said that to me.


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## limr (Mar 27, 2014)

bribrius, if you are going to bring politics into this, which you are obviously willing to do since you have repeatedly and specifically blamed Democrats (which is capitalized, by the way) and liberals for problem you (incorrectly) identify, then I'm going to completely ignore you. There is no way I'm going to say one more word in response when you start a discussion so aggressively and disrespectfully.


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## bribrius (Mar 27, 2014)

limr said:


> bribrius, if you are going to bring politics into this, which you are obviously willing to do since you have repeatedly and specifically blamed Democrats (which is capitalized, by the way) and liberals for problem you (incorrectly) identify, then I'm going to completely ignore you. There is no way I'm going to say one more word in response when you start a discussion so aggressively and disrespectfully.


 I could say "our legislature" if you -prefer. But it really isn't all our legislature that is causing the problem. The republicans could care less how I choose to educate my children as long as it meets standards.  what have I incorrectly identified?


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## limr (Mar 27, 2014)

bribrius said:


> limr said:
> 
> 
> > bribrius, if you are going to bring politics into this, which you are obviously willing to do since you have repeatedly and specifically blamed Democrats (which is capitalized, by the way) and liberals for problem you (incorrectly) identify, then I'm going to completely ignore you. *There is no way I'm going to say one more word in response when you start a discussion so aggressively and disrespectfully.*
> ...


.


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## kundalini (Mar 27, 2014)

bribrius said:


> ...... But it really isn't all our legislature that is causing the problem. .....


Regardless of which side you agree with, you have to admit that our legislature has a lot to answer for.  Good or bad. 

Politics, sorry.


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## bribrius (Mar 27, 2014)

kundalini said:


> bribrius said:
> 
> 
> > ...... But it really isn't all our legislature that is causing the problem. .....
> ...


oh. I don't like the repubs any more usually. .  This one situation, just happens to be uncorking me though. I have dogs in this fight. And I am pretty hard to converse with (breathing in deeply) on this topic. I'll admit it.  I pay money toward it, my kids have involvement.  I want the public school system shutdown for the most part or forced to sink or swim having to be competitive. im kind of hard to reason with. The fact people are putting the failing public school system over how I educated my children is making me become unglued.  I still was interested in another viewpoint...but.


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## limr (Mar 27, 2014)

kundalini said:


> bribrius said:
> 
> 
> > ...... But it really isn't all our legislature that is causing the problem. .....
> ...



I've got no issue with simply mentioning that politics gets in the way of education. What I will not engage in is an argument about the evils of one side vs the virtues of another. And for the record, this has nothing to do with my own political leanings. I would disengage the same way had he substituted "Republican" and "conservative" for "Democrat" and "liberal." Any discussion that starts from a position that relies on the demonization of the opposing side is not going to be a fruitful discussion, and that totally turns me off.


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## limr (Mar 27, 2014)

bribrius said:


> kundalini said:
> 
> 
> > bribrius said:
> ...



Then just walk away from it. 

This was a fun little thread and I would rather see it remain so until it dies a natural, organic death from waning interest than have it closed because you're too emotional to have a reasonable discussion.


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## bribrius (Mar 27, 2014)

limr said:


> bribrius said:
> 
> 
> > kundalini said:
> ...


i'm not TOO emotional. But I don't think you want to have this discussion in your happy thread and it isn't the place for it probably. I apologize for the sidetrack. i'm sure you are a great teacher. 
back to photos and reading about photography I go....


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## limr (Mar 27, 2014)

bribrius said:


> limr said:
> 
> 
> > bribrius said:
> ...



Thank you. I'm not against hashing out differing opinions, but I do feel that your being 'unglued' does not put you in the right frame of mind to have a helpful discussion. If you truly are interested in other viewpoints, then you need to approach it with an open mind, not with preconception guns blazing.


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## limr (Mar 28, 2014)

Now to get this thread back on track...

Jaguars!






And a few more quotes from my file:



"The U.S. discriminates by race, history, and income or better yet, the money you have."
"They get loured away from their loved ones. Jobs such as prostitution, slavery, maid, messuse, and embarrassing positions."
"The classes I have taken will hopefully help me in my future that is comming up."
"A final way is to let them see the family member befor the surgery of death."
"Without life, my existence wouldn't exist."


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## AlanO (Mar 28, 2014)

limr said:


> Now to get this thread back on track...
> 
> And a few more quotes from my file:
> 
> ...



Mind if I use one of your quotes in my sig? Lol.. This one really speaks to me. :scratch:


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## pgriz (Mar 28, 2014)

The Reader's Digest (I read it at my mother-in-law's so stop smirking) has a regular feature called "Kids sure rite funny" or some such.  I suspect Leonore probably anonymously contributed at least 50% of the content in that feature over the years.  Note that the definition of "kids" being elastic.  So Leonore, since you get $50 per entry, you must be rolling in the green stuff - and you're "teaching" just to get more material, right?:hug::


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## runnah (Mar 28, 2014)




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## runnah (Mar 28, 2014)

Spoilers


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## Tiller (Mar 28, 2014)

limr said:


> "Without life, my existence wouldn't exist."



My new favorite quote!


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## limr (Mar 28, 2014)

pgriz said:


> The Reader's Digest (I read it at my mother-in-law's so stop smirking) has a regular feature called "Kids sure rite funny" or some such.  I suspect Leonore probably anonymously contributed at least 50% of the content in that feature over the years.  Note that the definition of "kids" being elastic.  So Leonore, since you get $50 per entry, you must be rolling in the green stuff - and you're "teaching" just to get more material, right?:hug::



You figured out my scheme! And you know, Reader's Digest headquarters is only about 20 minutes from where I live, so all I have to do is pop in after class to drop off new material and pick up my checks. Don't even have to waste a stamp!


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## limr (Mar 28, 2014)

runnah said:


>



I've been known to include the line, "You're going to write until your eyes bleed!" in my 'pep talks' 

And I don't care what anyone says; I really liked "Dead Poet's Society."


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## runnah (Mar 28, 2014)

limr said:


> And I don't care what anyone says; I really liked "Dead Poet's Society."



Who says they don't like DPS?


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## limr (Mar 28, 2014)

runnah said:


> limr said:
> 
> 
> > And I don't care what anyone says; I really liked "Dead Poet's Society."
> ...



Apparently, Roger Ebert did in 1989. He hated it: Dead Poets Society Movie Review (1989) | Roger Ebert

I've heard similar criticisms - that it was just sentimental schlock, that the characters were unrealistic, that it relied on platitude and poorly represented the humanities. Blah blah blah. I liked it.


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## Designer (Mar 28, 2014)

limr said:


> And a few more quotes from my file:



Got enough for a book?  Got enough time to write a book?


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## ratssass (Mar 28, 2014)

...Bribius,sometimes you are like a Teepee and a wigwam......

















Two tents............lol    just havin' fun!!


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## limr (Mar 28, 2014)

Designer said:


> limr said:
> 
> 
> > And a few more quotes from my file:
> ...



It's funny - a lot of my colleagues ask me the same question. I probably do. It's a pretty thick file! I wouldn't have enough to write a book solely of quotes, though. There would have to be some commentary. I figure if I ever write that book, it's best that I do it after I'm no longer working at the school that has provided the material


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## Designer (Mar 28, 2014)

limr said:


> (DPS)  I liked it.



Occasionally I find myself agreeing with a film critic.  

I like very few movies.  

Ditto TV.


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## limr (Mar 28, 2014)

ratssass said:


> ...Bribius,sometimes you are like a Teepee and a wigwam......
> 
> Two tents............lol    just havin' fun!!



Don't you mean you're just punning him?


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## Designer (Mar 28, 2014)

Sometimes I am in tents as well.


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## Newtricks (Mar 28, 2014)

Well if I had to deal with... I'd drink!


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## hotdrop (Mar 28, 2014)

Make them define "They" in the next essay. Or even have students exchange essays and respond to the other students proposed solution, how it would affect their life if they were falsely accused of said crime and had to suffer the concequences.


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## Designer (Mar 28, 2014)

hotdrop said:


> Or even have students exchange essays



IMO, the students who write these lines of wit don't have the capacity to evaluate their own, let alone someone else's work.


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## limr (Mar 28, 2014)

hotdrop said:


> Make them define "They" in the next essay. Or even have students exchange essays and respond to the other students proposed solution, how it would affect their life if they were falsely accused of said crime and had to suffer the concequences.



I am constantly asking them questions like that. "Who are 'they' who say all these things?" "Oh, it happened 'back in the day'? What day would that be?"

But I'm a pain in the ass 



Designer said:


> hotdrop said:
> 
> 
> > Or even have students exchange essays
> ...



I have to agree. Even with the stronger students, I've found peer review to be of limited use.


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## table1349 (Mar 28, 2014)

Personally, I drink to forget..........................................What was this thread about again???


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## BrickHouse (Mar 28, 2014)

My doctor tells me whiskey is good for my heart.  (secret: my doctor is me)


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## table1349 (Mar 28, 2014)

My Dr. said the same thing about Scotch and I'm not my own Dr.


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## limr (Mar 28, 2014)

BrickHouse said:


> My doctor tells me whiskey is good for my heart.  (secret: my doctor is me)



Can you be my doctor too so I can make my whiskey officially medicinal?


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## robbins.photo (Mar 28, 2014)

limr said:


> I have to agree. Even with the stronger students, I've found peer review to be of limited use.



So to expand on that most famous of Gumpism's, I guess we could safely say that "Stupid won't fix Stupid".. lol


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## Steve5D (Mar 28, 2014)

limr said:


> Meaning, make more higher fines. More police alert of who's littering and who's not. Make a bill about it. If  not people are just going to keep on doing it. They need to take more action about this trash and littering. They meaning the law, president, police, the house of Rep, the 3 branches, all the above need to take more action and be more serious. If not people will not care nor pay attention and just keep throwing trash and littering everywhere. Something really has to be done soon that is my opinion.
> 
> The current batch of papers in front of me aren't quite this bad, but I still feel the need to pour myself a stiff drink!



Years ago, a buddy of mine used to date an art history professor at San Diego State. We used to hang out at his house, get drunk, and she'd let us grade the student's papers.

Ahhh, good times...


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## limr (Mar 28, 2014)

Steve5D said:


> limr said:
> 
> 
> > &#8220;Meaning, make more higher fines. More police alert of who's littering and who's not. Make a bill about it. If  not people are just going to keep on doing it. They need to take more action about this trash and littering. They meaning the law, president, police, the house of Rep, the 3 branches, all the above need to take more action and be more serious. If not people will not care nor pay attention and just keep throwing trash and littering everywhere. Something really has to be done soon that is my opinion.&#8221;
> ...



So you must have seen some doozies, too, eh? I'd gladly provide the alcohol if my boyfriend and his friends would get drunk and grade my papers, but unfortunately, he's got his own to grade, so I don't think I could convince him to take on mine.

Two infamous lines from his students (he teaches history and political science at a different college):

"Since the age of the dinosaurs, man has been fashioning weapons."
"The Spanish-American War was moistly fought by the U.S. Navy."

That second one was just a typo, but it was the most aptly-placed typo I've seen in a long time.


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