# Danseur de la Lumière



## ShawnQuintero

Unavailable.


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## timor

Is it the only photo you took ? Hope not.


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## deeky

After looking long enough, it looks like she is doing the splits.  Impressive - it just took me too long to figure it out.  I think the biggest problem is that in (I am assuming) going for the high key/washed out look, the leg and tutu, which would give the definition to identify the position she is in, have been blown out.  Just not doing it for me.


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## runnah

The French title adds +10 photo points.


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## Derrel

runnah said:


> The French title adds +10 photo points.



But the strength of the window support subtracts those 10 points...

I think some heroic recovery of the highlights on the floor and tutu might help this image. I absolutely LOVE light,airy, high-key-feeling shots on subjects like ballet and dance and feminine portraiture/wedding,etc.. In this shot, what I think hurts it is the "strength" of the background elements; they are very strong, large, solid, geometric shapes. Her shadow on the floor is nice, but the blown-out patch on the left hand side of the shadow really is hurting the shot. "Light advances, dark recedes," being the old,old concept...the shot could probably be strengthened if more emphasis could be shifted to "her", and a bit of emphasis shifted away from the physical aspects of the shot (ie, the strong,angular background, the blown highlights on floor).

Maybe this shot could get that added emphasis on "her" by showing it in color??? Even with the blown highlights, which look very hot and might go "yellow" (icky!!!) if converted to plain color; the answer MIGHT be found by applying a rather heavy Lightroom or Instagram-type filter, to produce a very exaggerated color rendering, and one in which a few blown highlights would actually look "deliberate" and "artsy".


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## skieur

runnah said:


> The French title adds +10 photo points.


 
Only if it is correct French:  danseuse NOT danseur.


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## runnah

skieur said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The French title adds +10 photo points.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only if it is correct French:  danseuse NOT danseur.
Click to expand...


Wrong.

The art buying public cares not for correct French, just French sounding words.


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## ShawnQuintero

I'd like this thread deleted. Thank you.


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## timor

ShawnQuintero said:


> I'd like this thread deleted. Thank you.


Why ? Work with us, discuss things.


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## ShawnQuintero

Please delete.


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## timor

Don't give it up man, each of us got own amount of whipping, for both, pics and words. You cannot harden the steel without the heat.


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## CowgirlMama

ShawnQuintero said:


> Please delete.



If you want it deleted quickly, you should probably contact a mod or admin. They're the ones who can delete. Until then, you can always edit your first post to "n/m".

Honestly, the picture isn't so horrible that it needs deleting. These guys have to get the sarcasm out of their systems before they're any real help. If you ask specific questions about what you could do better next time, they've got tons to offer.  (I'm still learning, so I'm not nearly as helpful, unfortunately.)


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## invisible

skieur said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The French title adds +10 photo points.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only if it is correct French:  danseuse NOT danseur.
Click to expand...

The danseuse might be indeed a danseur. Get with the times.


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## skieur

invisible said:


> skieur said:
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> runnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The French title adds +10 photo points.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only if it is correct French: danseuse NOT danseur.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The danseuse might be indeed a danseur. Get with the times.
Click to expand...


Get your glasses fixed.


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## rexbobcat

This thread is funny.

I like the image though


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## runnah

invisible said:


> The danseuse might be indeed a danseur. Get with the times.



Merde...


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## cgipson1

Threads don't get deleted here... unless they are SPAM, or REALLY, REALLY BAD!. This thread is neither! OP.... all you can do is delete your own posts... period!

I am curious what  you expected when you posted the photo, though? I am sure you got praise for it elsewhere, and may have been expecting it here? And instead you got some honest critique, which you probably perceived as negative? That blown-out look is popular on some places... but many people still don't care for it, unless it is very well done. Your image has some good points, and if you stick around and listen, it could easily be turned into a better image in post.... and you would shoot better images in the future with what you pick up.

If you decide to leave? Quitter's never win! Hopefully you will respond....


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## vintagesnaps

(Edited to delete comments/critique since original photo was removed.)
If an OP asks to have their thread deleted why can't that request be accomodated? There seems to be only maybe one comment posted in this thread that gives any sort of critique. I'm an experienced photographer but if I was new at something and put myself out there, I think I'd at least expect some constructive criticism. 

Someone mentioned board users needing to get the sarcasm out of their system before comments in a thread get helpful - I think there are better ways to treat newbies. I don't mean the type who just got a camera and seem to think they're instantly professional wedding photographers etc., they seem at best to be misinformed or misguided. I mean board users who are new and sincere about posting photos for display or asking for suggestions - why aren't they treated in a more helpful way on this board?


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## invisible

vintagesnaps said:


> I think with this photo I see what the OP was going for - I like the idea of it although I think the light seems to somewhat overpower the dancer. With B&W photography I was taught to adjust for a 'black' black and a 'white' white somewhere in the image. In this photo I might adjust the contrast so there's some deeper black in the dancer's leg warmer (to me it seems at its darkest it's charcoal but not quite black).


Much like you, I'm a fan of B&W images with deep blacks and bright whites (especially if there's a strong source of light present). In this case, however, I think the photographer was consciously going for this particular look and I like the general processing.

My issue with the photo is that the dancer's right leg, due to the angle the photo was taken from, looks like a stump more than a leg.


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## skieur

runnah said:


> skieur said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> runnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The French title adds +10 photo points.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only if it is correct French: danseuse NOT danseur.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong.
> 
> The art buying public cares not for correct French, just French sounding words.
Click to expand...


The only art buying public that cares about French sounding words is made up of those who speak and understand some very basic French and basic mistakes in French don't cut the mustard.


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## skieur

runnah said:


> invisible said:
> 
> 
> 
> The danseuse might be indeed a danseur. Get with the times.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Merde...
Click to expand...


Hey, your French is better than you let on.   Now you will have to develop some Canadianismus.


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## runnah

I already apologize way too much.


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## timor

ShawnQuintero said:


> Unavailable.


Why ?
Here you go:
"Last edited by ShawnQuintero; 03-20-2013 at 03:41 PM.                                                                   Reason:* Inappropriate Responses*"
We are BAD, BAD, BAD


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## deeky

I was curious enough to go looking for context.  If you are interested, here is the op's website.  Found shots from the same series, so it's legit.


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## vintagesnaps

Deeky, you and Derrel posted comments that gave some critique but it seems understandable the OP might have wanted to remove the photo, there didn't seem to be much in the way of specific constructive criticism given.


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## timor

I cannot say I don't like OP's photographs. Thanks Deeky for the link. They are quite dynamic when comes to angles, but there is also some disregard to the light.
Sharon, there was still no reason for him to run, he even did not start any discussion, no questions why the comments were the way they were etc. I think he has overgrown, artistic ego and came here just for prize.
Nevertheless this I found in OP's blog:
_A little secret: No usually means Not Yet. Failuire usually means Do It Again. Mistakes usually mean Do It Another Way.
_​_*No, Failure and Mistakes NEVER mean Stop.*_​_ Don&#8217;t Stop. Don&#8217;t give up. Keep going. Work hard_
What you would make out of this, considering what happened here ?
And the request to remove the thread; like erasing traces of not the best opinions about him. Neurotic behavior on his part.


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## Derrel

deeky said:


> I was curious enough to go looking for context.  If you are interested, here is the op's website.  Found shots from the same series, so it's legit.



As the OP wrote in his February blog:, 

"Whenever someone asks me how I&#8217;ve gotten &#8220;good&#8221; at something, my answer is always &#8220;Quite a lot of failure.&#8221;And I&#8217;m always smiling when I say that. But, I think its important to note, though. People don&#8217;t become successful out of no where. People don&#8217;t &#8220;make it&#8221; simply because they have had a lot of success. And I&#8217;m definitely speaking from the outside speaking in, as I, myself, have not &#8220;made it.&#8221;But, I do know that success isn&#8217;t as romantic as people make it. It&#8217;s a lot of failure. It&#8217;s a lot of late nights. It&#8217;s a lot of let downs, and sorrow, and mistakes. It&#8217;s a LOT of mistakes.But it&#8217;s getting back up. It&#8217;s feeling sorrow for yourself, then smacking yourself on the head and saying &#8220;No! I won&#8217;t give up! I won&#8217;t feel bad for myself. I will try again, and this time, I&#8217;ll do it better! I will try again, and again, and again, and again. I will NOT give up.&#8221;

Anyway, he pulled the image from the thread. Hey, whateva, right? I thought I offered some insight on ways to make his photo have more impact. Somebody pointed out that the closest leg's position made the leg look like "a stump"...which, it kinda' did...I get the feeling that this thread came off like criticizing somebody's child for a poor acting performance in a school play, or like offering honest C&C about some mommy-goggles-needing-kid-photographs...cut too close to the quick.​


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## runnah

What a loser.


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## amolitor

Maybe he's decided this forum ain't for him, for one of about an infinite number of reasons. Figuring that you "ran him out of town" with your tough critiques is a bit of a leap, even for TPF.


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## timor

Any critique seems always to be tough, but this is a discussion forum, behind an opinion is a reason. Before quitting wouldn't be wise to talk about this reasons ? What strikes me is this "*Inappropriate Responses "*. Is this guy for real ?


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## deeky

Is he for real?  I would say so.  Young, 'professional', confident, excited about life, not yet tempered and jaded, workplace that is all about warm fuzzies (at least publicly, I've worked in the church).  I'm not surprised as I looked through his website.  We have probably all been there to some extent.  Unfortunately, reactions like this are often because of a lack of confidence, even if they don't show it.  I hope he builds a little more over time.


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## amolitor

Either that or an extremely mature attitude. A real grownup just walks away. I wish I was a grownup


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## Majeed Badizadegan

amolitor said:


> Maybe he's decided this forum ain't for him, for one of about an infinite number of reasons. Figuring that you "_*ran him out of town" with your tough critiques is a bit of a leap, even for TPF.*_



It is not a bit of a leap at all. It isn't even a short hop. Actually, you don't have to move it all. It's right here and evidenced over many, many instances. 

I've seen it happen numerous times.  

Photographer X comes here, shares their work, expecting praise but what they get is straight talk. Whether it's good, bad, or somewhere in between. 

To some people, the truth hurts. Some people are simply not willing to face the truth, or have been so praised in other circles that their self-view is convoluted beyond reconciliation.

So they run the other way as fast as they came.


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## runnah

In today's world of participation trophies and constant coddling it's easy to see why most of photographers in their early 20's get all butthurt about being told they aren't special.

I deal with it all the time. You have some designer thinking they are hot **** because they have never had one single ounce of criticism their entire lives, they show up with **** work, **** attitude, **** work ethic and wonder why they get canned after 2 weeks.

**** 'em, they need to realize the real world isn't their mother's tit.


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## amolitor

Just because 10,000 other people did it doesn't mean that this one did.

Also, you're suffering from confirmation bias. Since the received wisdom here is that people flounce off in a huff when they are not coddled and loved, every time someone leaves for any reason he or she tends to get added to your mental count of people who have flounced off in a huff. Sometimes people just decide they don't want to deal with *******s, sometimes they get lives, sometimes they get hit by buses.


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## Majeed Badizadegan

amolitor said:


> Just because 10,000 other people did it doesn't mean that this one did.
> 
> Also, you're suffering from confirmation bias. Since the received wisdom here is that people flounce off in a huff when they are not coddled and loved, every time someone leaves for any reason he or she tends to get added to your mental count of people who have flounced off in a huff. Sometimes people just decide they don't want to deal with *******s, sometimes they get lives, sometimes they get hit by buses.



We can only piece together the puzzle from the pieces in front of us.

And the pieces here point to butthurt flounce. And it's happened many times before, and will happen many times again. But you can give him the benefit of the doubt if you want. I don't see any reason why I should.


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## timor

amolitor said:


> I wish I was a grownup


Eh... you don't want that.
The passion for things comes from never growing up.


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## runnah

amolitor said:


> Just because 10,000 other people did it doesn't mean that this one did.
> 
> Also, you're suffering from confirmation bias. Since the received wisdom here is that people flounce off in a huff when they are not coddled and loved, every time someone leaves for any reason he or she tends to get added to your mental count of people who have flounced off in a huff. Sometimes people just decide they don't want to deal with *******s, sometimes they get lives, sometimes they get hit by buses.



Well until we impliment some sort of exit poll, we are only able to rely on such evidence. 

I am going to go on a limb and make the conclusion based on the evidence, flimsy as it might be, that the OP had a hair across his ass that some had the gall to do anything other than praise their work.


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## ShawnQuintero

Wow! Haha. Definitely didn't think this thread would get as much attention as it has, especially since I asked for it to be deleted. I'm not even sure where to start. I guess I should start off with the idea that the people on this forum are quite the bunch! You are all so passionate for your photography and it definitely shows! 


Thank you to everyone who gave my site a visit! It's very much appreciated.  I hope you liked my work. If not, that's okay. Because the thing about my photography, or anything really, is that I don't do it for any of you&#8230; You're praise or your criticism. Haha. Maybe that's where the communication break down came from? Maybe you thought that I posted the photo on here in pursuit of praise or in pursuit of constructive criticism.


I am new here. And from what I thought, this was a community of people who had a passion for the pleasure of photography, who supported fellow photographers, and understood the struggle our camera's press upon us.


I guess this is not the case.


I find Photography to be a very personal and spiritual endeavor. And I think we all do, really. If not, I'm not really sure where all of your passion comes from. 


I do forgive everyone whose called me names, implied things about who I am and my work ethic, because of three posts and a edit. That's okay. You don't know me and I don't know you. So I think it's just a matter of moving on. 


I'm astonished anyone would consider going through the words I have written in my blog to dissect and judge my character. I won't respond to anyone's judgements. If you have any request on what I've meant in anything I've written online, feel free to ask me personally and directly. 


I do apologize for how long it's taken me to respond. I am quite busy outside of the internet and probably won't have time to even check if there are responses until after next week.


Thank you all and have a fantastic day!


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## raining

Very well response. I believe your photo was wonderful, and I applaud your attitude towards the criticism.


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## timor

OK. New and a bit unexpected development.
Shawn, we can see you only through your actions, and this are sort of unique. If you didn't want prize or criticism you should say so at the beginning as is the custom of this part of the forum to post comments and discuss the issues. In this thread you became an issue as we didn't know what was so bad in our behavior to make you want to erase the thread. Still don't know.


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## vintagesnaps

I don't see why someone can't change their mind for whatever reason and ask to have his/her photo or thread deleted. I said earlier, I think the OP got hardly any constructive criticism or critique for people to infer that the request was made for some of the reasons given. Shawn seems to have handled this in a reasonable and gracious way.


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## deeky

So basically what we have here is someone new with a lot of passion that came into a new situation and didn't check it's nature before putting themselves out there.  You don't have to be around long or read much to find that the specific, stated purpose of this forum is to comment and critique images for the sake of improvement (granted, not all posts did that - welcome to the world).  When the op got the intent of the forum rather than what they personally wanted, people got in a fluster.

Good advice for us all online and in the real world - read/listen first, understand the bigger picture, then speak.  

OK, I'll step down now.....


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## Derrel

deeky said:


> So basically what we have here is someone new with a lot of passion that came into a new situation and didn't check it's nature before putting themselves out there.  You don't have to be around long or read much to find that the specific, stated purpose of this forum is to comment and critique images for the sake of improvement (granted, not all posts did that - welcome to the world).  When the op got the intent of the forum rather than what they personally wanted, people got in a fluster.
> 
> Good advice for us all online and in the real world - *read/listen first, understand the bigger picture, then speak.*
> 
> OK, I'll step down now.....



I applaud ShawnQuintero's most recent post. I did stop by his blog and looked at a number of entries. He's doing what he likes! Good for him!

Interesting aside,which I highlighted in deeky's post above, in which the concept of, "*read/listen first, understand the bigger picture, then speak".* 

Back in the day when the interwebs was  a hodge-podge of BBS,CompuServe,AOL, Usenet discussion groups, and the early,early "web", discussion boards and groups virtually all had a FAQ. One of the single most-common, most widespread, and most-essential commandments of the FAQs was that newbies were to come in, lurk for a while, learn how and what the group was about, who the players were, and what the tenor of the group actually happened to be--and only THEN, to begin participating. That type of behavior, that protocol, was part of what used to be called Nettiquette. It kept newbies from getting butt-hurt. It kept newbies from barging in with one or two days' worth of "familiarity" (cough,cough) and setting themselves up for failure. 

Imagine a new player at a 15 year-old Friday night poker game bopping in on his first night, and wanting EVERYBODY to suddenly go along with his desire that EVERYBODY play twos and tens and one-eyed jacks and black queens wild, seven card stud, with a Chicago twist of low Ace in the hole splits the pot...*at an established Texas Hold Em game*...yeah...butt-hurt.


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## timor

^^^^ Thumbs up guys.
Plus forum has "Welcomes and Introductions" section, nice place to start.


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## vintagesnaps

The OP did start there. And how does anyone know what the OP wanted or expected? The OP hasn't even been posting on the board long enough for people to get to know what he's all about. There seem to have been a lot of assumptions made. 

I don't think I've ever seen anything like this, it comes across as making excuses to justify comments being posted that come across as inconsiderate or at the very least not helpful or particulary relevant (and not just in this thread). Empty praise isn't particularly helpful but critique can be direct or straightforward without being disrespectful.


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## cgipson1

vintagesnaps said:


> The OP did start there. And how does anyone know what the OP wanted or expected? The OP hasn't even been posting on the board long enough for people to get to know what he's all about. There seem to have been a lot of assumptions made.
> 
> I don't think I've ever seen anything like this, it comes across as making excuses to justify comments being posted that come across as inconsiderate or at the very least not helpful or particulary relevant (and not just in this thread). Empty praise isn't particularly helpful but critique can be direct or straightforward without being disrespectful.



Well.. you probably wont be successful in changing how things are done around here... other have tried before, without success! And I suspect you won't be happy here, since most of your posts have been complaining about how people are treated here. I hope that isn't the case... but as I said, things are unlikely to change.


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## timor

Sharon, I am not long here, but this is my longest active stay on one forum and that is precisely because of C&C. I cannot speak for every photo forum in the world, but in my experience this one is very balanced. In contrast I've seen forums dominated by a few individuals and if you not with them you will be "destroyed", or forums which are just a clack. Both of the types will not bring anything constructive. TPF has very open style of discussion, all ideas are welcome, there is no singular, only right guru. TPF has many very experienced photographers as a members, many of them for very long time. I find their posts quite interesting not only from "photographic" point of view but general. Sometimes there is a bit of sarcasm and irony and little clashes, but that's life. In an environment of creativity (however small it would be) you must expect an exchange of opinions as people have to evaluate their way of thinking.


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## deeky

vintagesnaps said:


> The OP did start there. And how does anyone know what the OP wanted or expected? The OP hasn't even been posting on the board long enough for people to get to know what he's all about. There seem to have been a lot of assumptions made.
> 
> I don't think I've ever seen anything like this, it comes across as making excuses to justify comments being posted that come across as inconsiderate or at the very least not helpful or particulary relevant (and not just in this thread). Empty praise isn't particularly helpful but critique can be direct or straightforward without being disrespectful.



There is a lot more to understanding people than just the specific words.  I think the overly dramatic negative response to comments (that were at worst a little tart) makes it pretty clear the op did not receive what they wanted.

Since you have called me out by name, I'll respond directly.  I've reread your posts and see what you don't like about my comments, but don't really see much constructive advice on what you do want me to do.  Isn't this what you are unhappy with in my posts?  In this case, there are a lot of possible solutions for the concerns that I had with photo.  I suppose I could have listed out a dozen step-by-steps, but I gave the op enough credit to assume that they had the ability to work on these things independently until they asked for more.  I apologize for assuming.

This forum aside, the world is not all warm fuzzies and participation trophies.  But so far I have not delved into cold daggers either.  I guess I tend to be more to the point than some would like, but _rarely_ is it more than that.  Cut the bull$hit, get down to business, and get on with it.  I've reread my posts in this thread and find nothing more than that.  As a peace offering, I'll offer my only direct, clear suggestion I have for you.  Ignore me.  There's a button for it somewhere, but I won't say where because I don't know.  Never used it.  I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and at least skim what people have to say.


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## terri

cgipson1 said:


> vintagesnaps said:
> 
> 
> 
> The OP did start there. And how does anyone know what the OP wanted or expected? The OP hasn't even been posting on the board long enough for people to get to know what he's all about. There seem to have been a lot of assumptions made.
> 
> I don't think I've ever seen anything like this, it comes across as making excuses to justify comments being posted that come across as inconsiderate or at the very least not helpful or particulary relevant (and not just in this thread). Empty praise isn't particularly helpful but critique can be direct or straightforward without being disrespectful.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well.. you probably wont be successful in changing how things are done around here... other have tried before, without success! And I suspect you won't be happy here, since most of your posts have been complaining about how people are treated here. I hope that isn't the case... but as I said, things are unlikely to change.
Click to expand...


Oh Charlie...love ya man, but that's a load of crap.  :thumbdown: Things can change when you actively put forth an effort to make them change.     Sharon is on target here and I'm not targeting _you_, per se, but this is just another one of those threads where there are a _lot_ of assumptions made by the members.   You guys pigeonhole people on the strength of a few posts, and you know it!  There IS a better way to find out what the OP was trying to achieve without all the flak.


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## cgipson1

terri said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vintagesnaps said:
> 
> 
> 
> The OP did start there. And how does anyone know what the OP wanted or expected? The OP hasn't even been posting on the board long enough for people to get to know what he's all about. There seem to have been a lot of assumptions made.
> 
> I don't think I've ever seen anything like this, it comes across as making excuses to justify comments being posted that come across as inconsiderate or at the very least not helpful or particulary relevant (and not just in this thread). Empty praise isn't particularly helpful but critique can be direct or straightforward without being disrespectful.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well.. you probably wont be successful in changing how things are done around here... other have tried before, without success! And I suspect you won't be happy here, since most of your posts have been complaining about how people are treated here. I hope that isn't the case... but as I said, things are unlikely to change.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh Charlie...love ya man, but that's a load of crap.  :thumbdown: Things can change when you actively put forth an effort to make them change.     Sharon is on target here and I'm not targeting _you_, per se, but this is just another one of those threads where there are a _lot_ of assumptions made by the members.   You guys pigeonhole people on the strength of a few posts, and you know it!  There IS a better way to find out what the OP was trying to achieve without all the flak.
Click to expand...


Terri,

I am not saying that I like the way this turned out... but the OP didn't stick around long enough for it to get turned around like it may have. I also didn't see anything in the first half dozen posts that justified the "Inappropriate Comments" post with a request to delete the thread. I still the the OP WAY over-reacted with the Flounce.. there was no real justification for that. But at least he was willing to come back and leave a parting comment that was nicely done.

I would also disagree that that VintageSnaps posts are on target (at least as far as the comments made prior to the OP doing the Exit).. after that, yea... the posts got a little out of hand maybe.


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## timor

cgipson1 said:


> But at least he was willing to come back and leave a parting comment that was nicely done.


 Not quite. I still want him back with an explanation why my and the others responses were so inappropriate. We ask him to stay, we ask him to undertake discussion. No, he ran, but not without throwing one bomb back.


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## cgipson1

timor said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> But at least he was willing to come back and leave a parting comment that was nicely done.
> 
> 
> 
> Not quite. I still want him back with an explanation why my and the others responses were so inappropriate. We ask him to stay, we ask him to undertake discussion. No, he ran, but not without throwing one bomb back.
Click to expand...


Yea.. but at least he was polite about it... that in itself is unusual!


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