# Slideshow Music for a Redneck Wedding



## iflynething (Sep 8, 2008)

I shot a wedding saturday and wanted to put a slideshow together of some of the pictures. 

To put it in perspective, everyone was just about drunk before the ceremony, smoking cigarettes and drinking Bud Light during the ceremony. 100% real moonshine afterwards and a pig pickin as the reception "dinner" (which was actually eaten before everyone got there for the reception which started at 4.......4 hours after the wedding even started at 12.

I would probably need two song and will be using about 200 pictures for the slideshow. I was thinking about using the song they walked down the isle to and then one other one but am lost. They are pretty big into rock and roll like AC/DC, ZZ Top, Led Zepplin and such. The first song was Maybe I'm Amazed by Paul McCartney. The bride walked down the isle to this song, so I saw it fit to make this the first one. Just wondering about the second and possibly third one to use. Not that the age of them matters, but the bride is 21 and the groom is 38. Even though they are many years apart, I didnt' know if the different ages would have an effect on what music you choose 

Thanks for your help and opinions

~Michael~


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## tirediron (Sep 8, 2008)

A little outside my musical sphere, but the thing that pops immediately into mind is "Copyright". My understanding of your post is that you are making a commercial product (That is, you will receive payment) and while it's unlikely, could wind up in some fairly serious legal hot-water if the songs were used without permission (and good luck getting that).


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## Mike30D (Sep 9, 2008)

Mike,

You need to get yourself some Royalty-Free music for this. If you want to do it the legal way that is....

If it fell into the wrong hands there's no telling the amount of trouble you'd be dealing with.


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## epp_b (Sep 9, 2008)

> A little outside my musical sphere, but the thing that pops immediately into mind is "Copyright". My understanding of your post is that you are making a commercial product (That is, you will receive payment) and while it's unlikely, could wind up in some fairly serious legal hot-water if the songs were used without permission (and good luck getting that).


Loosen up, tight-wad.  Did you know that copyright was actually created with serving the public interest in mind _before_ profits to creators?  See Statutory License.  Also, he didn't actually say it was for commercial purposes, so we don't even know that (yet).

Anyway, to address the topic at hand: AC/DC, eh?  How about "Have a Drink on Me"?  Sounds appropriate according to what you described


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## Mike30D (Sep 9, 2008)

epp_b said:


> Loosen up, tight-wad.  Did you know that copyright was actually created with serving the public interest in mind _before_ profits to creators?  See Statutory License.  Also, he didn't actually say it was for commercial purposes, so we don't even know that (yet).
> 
> Anyway, to address the topic at hand: AC/DC, eh?  How about "Have a Drink on Me"?  Sounds appropriate according to what you described



He's not being a tight-wad. If you are shooting weddings professionally then you need to act like a professional and do the right thing. Why would you even go anywhere near the "well, just this time" scenario? If this is being shown to the client and then the client wants a copy with that music, what do you say then? 

Pay for the royalty-free music and there will be no problems. 

Use the copyrighted music, there could be problems, there may not be problems - why take the chance??


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## kundalini (Sep 9, 2008)

Off the top of my head:

ZZ Top - Beer Drinkers and Hell Raisers - Tres Hombres

Led Zepplin - Celebration Day - III

Humble Pie - You're So Good for Me - Rock On

Billy Idol - White Wedding - Billy Idol

Van Halen - You Really Got Me - Van Halen

Stevie Ray Vaughn - Let Me Love You - In Step




Have to agree with the others with gaining the rights to use if you're being paid.  Personal and professional integrity, as well as staying within the laws are the only way to run a business.


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## Neuner (Sep 9, 2008)

I would probably use the most recent song by Kid Rock that is topping the charts right now.  It has riffs from 'Sweet Home Alabama' and 'American Werewolf in London' in it.  I think it would help tie the age difference together really well.  Hints of older rock songs with todays hits.


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## Txaggie08 (Sep 9, 2008)

^^ that one would work, personally I would do number two as "LaGrange" by ZZtop....the first part of it has a nice "dig" and build up.....maybe fade in some really funny picture as it builds, then snap into some faster sequence shots?


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## tirediron (Sep 9, 2008)

epp_b said:


> Loosen up, tight-wad.


Uncalled for I think.



epp_b said:


> Did you know that copyright was actually created with serving the public interest in mind _before_ profits to creators? See Statutory License.


Okay, reading through several of the results of that search, I find nowhere saying that it's okay to use someone elses work in a commercial product without their permission.
Also, he didn't actually say it was for commercial purposes, so we don't even know that (yet).



epp_b said:


> Also, he didn't actually say it was for commercial purposes, so we don't even know that (yet).


No, you're quite right, we don't know if the OP is using the work in a commercial product. Hence the reason I added the codicil: "_My understanding_" to the sentence. Based on his saying that he shot "_A_ wedding" (vice a friend's/family wedding) and the link in his signature, it seemed a reasonable supposition.

Let's put this in very simple terms. Assuming that it is for a commerical product, this is no different than my taking pictures that you have posted on your website and selling them and keeping the money. I don't know about you, but that would certainly bother most photographers I know.


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## manaheim (Sep 9, 2008)

Skynard?

dunno id I spelled that write.

<-- not a redneck.


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## kundalini (Sep 9, 2008)

manaheim said:


> Skynard?


 Suffering from the Jerry Lewis syndrome, are we?     He introduced them on one of his telethons as Lie-Nard Sky-nard.

_Lynyrd Skynyrd is the correct spelling.  Taken from one of their high school teachers._


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## manaheim (Sep 9, 2008)

kundalini said:


> Suffering from the Jerry Lewis syndrome, are we?  He introduced them on one of his telethons as Lie-Nard Sky-nard.
> 
> _Lynyrd Skynyrd is the correct spelling. Taken from one of their high school teachers._


 
hahah, well hey at least I can _say_ the name properly.


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## epp_b (Sep 9, 2008)

> Okay, reading through several of the results of that search, I find nowhere saying that it's okay to use someone elses work in a commercial product without their permission.


When did I say it was?  Statutory licensing means you pay a statutory amount to use a song and the creator can't say no.  That's the law.


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## Mike30D (Sep 10, 2008)

epp_b said:


> When did I say it was?  Statutory licensing means you pay a statutory amount to use a song and the creator can't say no.  That's the law.



Um, ok... here's the deal.. Do know how many lawyers you'd have to deal with and how much money and time you'd spend on something like this. Even if you get a license from BMI that really doesn't take care of all the legalities in using the music you hear on the radio. Besides, if a songwriter says "no you can't use it" then I doubt there's anything you can do to change their mind.

This subject has gone round and round over at DWF and RF music is the smart and much less expensive way to go. I doubt most professional wedding photographers have the budget to go the distance with something like this. Besides, who wants to spend all their time dealing with one copyright issue when you should be behind the camera making money.


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## Mike_E (Sep 10, 2008)

Back to the point, how about this?  
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YUuyzQDmjY[/ame]  ??

You did say he was 38 and she 21 right?


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## JerryPH (Sep 10, 2008)

Hate to mention it, but stealing someone's music, even if it is for his best friend AND he is not getting paid for doing the wedding, it is still stealing.

I wish I could find that article again, but from what I remember, in the USA, there is not just one fee to pay, but two.  One goes to the record company that holds rights to that song, and there is another fee, but for the life me I cannot recall who just now.  In the end, though, you are NOT looking at a very cheap solution if you want to be 100% legal.

I would just use music that is available in the creative commons area and be done with it.


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## manaheim (Sep 10, 2008)

^^^ was it ASCAP?

http://www.ascap.com/

These people are satan, IMO.


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## iflynething (Sep 11, 2008)

Mike_E said:


> Back to the point, how about this?
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YUuyzQDmjY ??
> 
> You did say he was 38 and she 21 right?


 
That's pretty good. I didn't know about all that copyright stuff just for songs. They (the songs) are from CDs that I have bought. Does that not give me the right to use them in the slideshows?

I think this thread has gone way out of proportion. It's not commerical. Just a little redneck wedding and I was looking for songs. I ended up going with mostly love song. Even though the wedding was "redneck" I didn't see it fit to use rock and roll songs. Also, I did get paid for the wedding as well as doing this slideshow. Sorry I didn't include all the information in my post. I hope that has cleared some things up.

Thanks for the music help though

~Michael~


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## JerryPH (Sep 11, 2008)

iflynething said:


> I didn't know about all that copyright stuff just for songs. They (the songs) are from CDs that I have bought. Does that not give me the right to use them in the slideshows?


 
Unfortunately no. It gives you the right to listen to them, not to put them on a product that you are using in a commercial sense (you are putting it on a DVD of a wedding to a client).

Hey, you could play the odds and win, but it's if you play the odds and lose that it gets very painful financially for you.

I hear about companys like Sony and other prominent ones making some nice coin from people like this. "Ignorance is no excuse" is the judge's favorite saying during these kinds of trials. 

This is an international forum. If you want the BEST advice for your area, visit a local lawyer and if you want to use a particular piece of commercial music, I would suggest you pass on spinning the wheel of chance, and pay what is required.

If you have a small budget, "Creative Commons" music is your best (read cheapest and most legal) bet.

If it helps any, my personal music collection spans well over 75,000 songs (CDs and records I have bought over the years, ALL coverted to MP3 and FLAC), and there are times I could make INCREDIBLE slideshows with music that I paid for... but I know I legally cannot, and therefore, will not. Photographers always ***** when clients want something for nothing... but very often forget about the rights of the musicans and music companys who worked their hinies off to give us that music at reasonable costs... we may buy the CD, just like someone may buy your pictures... it STILL doesn't make that song yours to do what you want to do with anymore than your pictures become your client's just becuase you gave them the CD or DVD of your work.

You *do* know that the pictures remain your property unless you write it down on paper that you are giving away ALL your rights to the pictures, don't you?


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## kundalini (Sep 11, 2008)

Just out of curiosity, what if he used music from his CD collection, made the slideshow and uploaded it to youtube for all to see.  

If there was no financial gain, would that still constitute an infraction?


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## epp_b (Sep 11, 2008)

> Besides, if a songwriter says "no you can't use it" then I doubt there's anything you can do to change their mind.


Did you not bother reading my reply?  They _can't_ say no -- it's the law.  The whole point of statutory licensing is that the "little guy" use and remix culture without having to be able to afford a $400-an-hour lawyer.



> Hate to mention it, but stealing someone's music, even if it is for his best friend AND he is not getting paid for doing the wedding, it is still stealing.


No, it's not stealing.  "Larceny" and "Copyright Infringement" are defined completely differently in law.



> That's pretty good. I didn't know about all that copyright stuff just for songs. They (the songs) are from CDs that I have bought. Does that not give me the right to use them in the slideshows?


Unfortunately, because the law is broken, it doesn't.  However, I have very little regard for copyright law in its current state as it reflects not the public needs for which it was originally crafted, but the desires of large media conglomerates and their wallets.



> Just out of curiosity, what if he used music from his CD collection, made the slideshow and uploaded it to youtube for all to see.


If found, he'd probably receive a DMCA takedown notice, Youtube would remove it and that'd be the end of it.



> If there was no financial gain, would that still constitute an infraction?


Yes, but only because big media runs the country in terms of copyright law.


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## Mike30D (Sep 11, 2008)

epp_b said:


> Did you not bother reading my reply?  They _can't_ say no -- it's the law.  The whole point of statutory licensing is that the "little guy" use and remix culture without having to be able to afford a $400-an-hour lawyer.



Yes, I read your reply. My point is that you'd spend forever fighting the appeals of songwriters because they don't want you touching their work.

Statutory Licensing also may involve royalties. Are you gonna pay out royalties just to use music from the radio? A professional photographer has enough costs to worry about besides paying out monies for music.

Most statutory licensing involves webcasting anyways, not DVD slideshows for wedding clients.


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## epp_b (Sep 11, 2008)

> Yes, I read your reply. My point is that you'd spend forever fighting the appeals of songwriters because they don't want you touching their work.
> 
> Statutory Licensing also may involve royalties. Are you gonna pay out royalties just to use music from the radio? A professional photographer has enough costs to worry about besides paying out monies for music.
> 
> Most statutory licensing involves webcasting anyways, not DVD slideshows for wedding clients.


Which is exactly why the law is broken.  We have years of culture that are locked up in legal chains that can only be unlocked by the right people with big pocket books.  This is _not_ what the creators of copyright had in mind when they founded it.


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## iflynething (Sep 11, 2008)

Woah. Wow guys. I guess I won't be making slideshows anymore. I can understand it more putting it into picture terms. The artist (like me) will put his music out (my pictures) and we can buy CDs and music from them (like people buying my pictures) but that doesn't mean I own anything.

I have only done two like this. I will stop it definately or just buy rights. Whatever it takes. I really enjoy putting the slideshows together but it is definately is not worth all the legal troubles.

Thanks for all the information though. I appreciate it

~Michael~


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## manaheim (Sep 11, 2008)

ifly, don't worry about it.  Just put some royalty free music in there and you're all good.

You could probably also spend short money asking a lawyer for some advice on this.  I'm pretty sure there are some reasonable use clauses that allow people to use songs and other materials on a limited basis.

Don't let people freak you out, but certainly make sure you understand the laws before you do something.

Not like Lynyyyrrrrddd Skyyynnyyyrd is gonna come after you with a fleet of lawyers for giving a couple a wedding slideshow with their song on it.


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## iflynething (Sep 11, 2008)

By royalty free............

~Michael~


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## epp_b (Sep 11, 2008)

> I have only done two like this. I will stop it definately or just buy rights. Whatever it takes. I really enjoy putting the slideshows together but it is definately is not worth all the legal troubles.


The key question is: what are you doing with these slideshows?  Just keeping them for fun?  Giving them to the couple?  Publishing them on YouTube?


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## firemedic0135 (Sep 11, 2008)

<<<<< Is about as close to redneck as you can get, without the rebel flag on my car but is tattooed on my body somewhere lol.

How about David Allen Coe-"if that aint country" not rock but every redneck loves that one

Another great song from DAC is "would you lay with me" a nice country love song

I doubt you would ever get any flack over the copyright of your slideshow music lol.
cant believe anyone would even care!!
sounds like some folks need to see about growing a pair HA!


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## KD5NRH (Sep 12, 2008)

Surely you can find a royalty-free recording of Dueling Banjos somewhere.

Failing that, maybe the producers of Hee Haw would let you use the "Where, oh where are you tonight" song cheaply.


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## Mike30D (Sep 12, 2008)

firemedic0135 said:


> <<<<< Is about as close to redneck as you can get, without the rebel flag on my car but is tattooed on my body somewhere lol.
> 
> How about David Allen Coe-"if that aint country" not rock but every redneck loves that one
> 
> ...



Then I guess you wouldn't care if people started stealing your photos and reposting them as their own or making money from them right?


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## epp_b (Sep 12, 2008)

> Then I guess you wouldn't care if people started stealing your photos and reposting them as their own or making money from them right?


You did not just make that comparison.  It's not the same and you know it, because

a) He wouldn't be claiming the songs as "his own"
b) It's easy enough to give credit where credit's due
c) He's not selling the slideshow


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## Mike30D (Sep 12, 2008)

epp_b said:


> You did not just make that comparison.  It's not the same and you know it, because
> 
> a) He wouldn't be claiming the songs as "his own"
> b) It's easy enough to give credit where credit's due
> c) He's not selling the slideshow



Ok, I'll give you that one. It was too early this morning when I responded.


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## firemedic0135 (Sep 12, 2008)

Mike30D said:


> Then I guess you wouldn't care if people started stealing your photos and reposting them as their own or making money from them right?


 
Why the hell ayone would want my pictures is beyond me, but I would be flattered for someone to think that highly of them or my so called attempts at photography. 

Yes using my pictures in a slide show would not bother me at all. why would I care. I dont care if you make a big sackfull of money from it either.Good for you,mabye if I wanted all the money I could make a slide show. 

Just make the dang slideshow and all will enjoy.Mabye if it makes it onto the emmy's or you make a million then they are gonna want a piece of the pie.


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## JerryPH (Sep 12, 2008)

kundalini said:


> Just out of curiosity, what if he used music from his CD collection, made the slideshow and uploaded it to youtube for all to see.
> 
> If there was no financial gain, would that still constitute an infraction?



Depends where... in the USA or Canada?  Yes, I would believe so.  Something similar... a waitress brought in her CD to work so she could work while listening to her CD... she was not the only one listening to her CD.  People who did not pay for the rights to listen to her CD were (restaurant patrons).  A surprise talk to a lawyer and 10 min later she had the radio playing.

She bought the rights to listen to the CD... not to share it with the world.



firemedic0135 said:


> Why the hell ayone would want my pictures is beyond me, but I would be flattered for someone to think that highly of them or my so called attempts at photography.



Tell you what, you make some self-portraits and I will steal the pics, add a few moustaches, add a few derogatory sexual remarks to them and post them on YOUTUBE.  I bet you would be offended then, yes?  Its the same basic idea just grossly simplified... I am taking something that belongs to YOU and abusing it in a manner that is wrong and without your permission.  THIS is what you seem to be condoning. 

It's less about money (in most cases) and more about doing what is legally and morally correct.


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## JerryPH (Sep 12, 2008)

epp_b said:


> The key question is: what are you doing with these slideshows?  Just keeping them for fun?  Giving them to the couple?  Publishing them on YouTube?



Does it really matter?

If YOU were the artist, and were walking down the street and saw a photographer's wedding slideshow on a laptop that a young couple were enjoying using your music without your permission, would you be pleased?  

Not likely (I know I would not be).  You would be thinking to yourself why is your music was being used without your permission and how often was it being "stolen" by this person on how many other slideshows... and if not, you should be.  There are near no grey areas here, its pretty black and white in terms of legal and moral issues.  Most artists do not make albums to get credit, they do it for profit.  In this case, a photographer is making a profit using someone's music without permission and not compensating that artist in any manner.  Legally, thats known as copywrite abuse... another way this is known as... is "theft".


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## Mike30D (Sep 12, 2008)

JerryPH said:


> Does it really matter?
> 
> If YOU were the artist, and were walking down the street and saw a photographer's wedding slideshow on a laptop that a young couple were enjoying using your music without your permission, would you be pleased?
> 
> Not likely (I know I would not be).  You would be thinking to yourself why is your music was being used without your permission and how often was it being "stolen" by this person on how many other slideshows... and if not, you should be.  There are near no grey areas here, its pretty black and white in terms of legal and moral issues.  Most artists do not make albums to get credit, they do it for profit.  In this case, a photographer is making a profit using someone's music without permission and not compensating that artist in any manner.  Legally, thats known as copywrite abuse... another way this is known as... is "theft".



I don't think he's selling the slideshow, but even if he's giving it away it's still copyright abuse. If it should happen to be uploaded to youtube or somewhere else on the web and the wrong ears hear it. It will lead a trail right back to the photographer. 

I think though that the point has been made here. You can only tell people so much. He will do what he wants to do, whether it's the right thing or wrong thing.


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## firemedic0135 (Sep 12, 2008)

JerryPH said:


> Depends where... in the USA or Canada? Yes, I would believe so. Something similar... a waitress brought in her CD to work so she could work while listening to her CD... she was not the only one listening to her CD. People who did not pay for the rights to listen to her CD were (restaurant patrons). A surprise talk to a lawyer and 10 min later she had the radio playing.
> 
> She bought the rights to listen to the CD... not to share it with the world.
> 
> ...


 

I have done that!!!!!!!!!!!!:lmao: didnt put it on youtube but did make a nice picture of my friend with a fake wang in his hand. Was some seriously funny stuff to. 

I see yalls side, but seriously doubt that any band would care if you included their music into your slideshow.

Now where is the dead horse I am gonna go beat the crap outa it.


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## JerryPH (Sep 13, 2008)

Go for it... and good luck.


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## iflynething (Sep 13, 2008)

I will stop using the music and stop doing the slideshows until I can find something out about the music situation

~Michael~


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## lucian (Sep 13, 2008)

I used to deal with this copyright issue on a daily basis in producing training videos for the military. 

Best thing to do is get your own production music. It's a lot cheaper than dealing with someone's lawyer - especially if they want to make an example.

Lots of production music out there that's not financially prohibitive.

I've used www.music2hues.com www.digitaljuice.com (they have stacked music where you can delet the instruments you don't want) and www.stock20.com

Best to play it safe.


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