# 2nd shooting Price



## LISA ACIERNO (Jun 1, 2016)

Im an established wedding photographer and haven't minded shooting with other photographers when I was available. I just hand my card over and do not edit. Two other established photographers I work with started out paying me $325 flat rate which they pay the inexperienced girls as well and I was fine with that, but now my wrists are taking a beating and I would like more money. Asked for $25 more an hour over 8hours, but still feel like I am undercutting myself. The one guy tried to get me 12 hours for that rate and I thought he was ridiculous. They are making $3000 a wedding which is where my pricing for my own weddings is as well. I shoot just as much for my own!

Question is: How much do you pay your second/assistant photographer and what is it based on?


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## gsgary (Jun 1, 2016)

And ?

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## waday (Jun 1, 2016)

Don't mind Gary... 

Take these comments with a grain of salt, as I'm a hobbyist. If you feel your time is worth more, than stand up for yourself. However, weigh the benefits of this money versus your time. It sounds like you're not post processing any of the images. Would you be out shooting a $3K wedding during this time, or would it be idle time? In other words, if you're not second shooting, are you making money?

Someone with proper experience will come along shortly and have a better answer.


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## robbins.photo (Jun 1, 2016)

Obviously what is needed here is skillful, tactful negotiations.  Not to worry, that happens to be a specialty of mine.

Ok, so you'll need a hooded cloak of some sort, preferably black but a really dark navy blue or a sufficiently dark grey can do in a pinch.  You'll also need a small metal trash bin, a mentally disturbed wombat, some toothpaste, a ball peen hammer and 3 quarts of lighter fluid.

So, to start with you.. umm.. well you know what?  Now that I think about it this is going to be a pretty long winded explanation.  Let me see about maybe just uploading an instruction video to you tube.


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## LISA ACIERNO (Jun 1, 2016)

Sorry I just added a question at the end of the original post. Yes, I am very detailed and added a lot of other info that may or may not have been necessary to those of you who do not have similar circumstances and can relate. Perhaps I need a wedding photo forum.. please excuse my noobness lol

Waday: No I would not be making $325 if I wasn't shooting, but working an all wedding is not worth the money to me anymore. I have a business relationship with them so we do refer business to each other when we are busy. Time=money in my world, but our relationship is important too. Just wondered about rates in your area/how you base pricing for assistants. thanks!


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## Designer (Jun 1, 2016)

robbins.photo said:


> Obviously what is needed here is skillful, tactful negotiations.


If your shots contribute significantly to the success of the overall project, then the primary should acknowledge it and boost your pay accordingly.  

Simply handing over your card and walking away is where you are failing your own bottom line.  You need to sit with him/her while he/she is uploading your shots.  Point out what you did to get the good ones and get the primary to agree that your shots are good enough to be worth more money.

If, on the other hand, your shots are nothing special, you should be ready to take your lumps and move on.  You and the primary need to evaluate your contribution objectively and fairly.  

Secondly, if he/she agrees that the shots are worth more, then you need to be ready with your suggestion to increase your pay, and by exactly how much and why you think you are correct in your demand.  This involves knowing a reasonable rate for skilled second shooters.  Give him/her your position and then shut up.  Don't say another word.  The next person who speaks is giving in.


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## robbins.photo (Jun 1, 2016)

My guess would be most photographers are going to pay whatever they think it is they can afford to get an acceptable quality in a 2nd shooter without pricing themselves out of a decent profit.

So there's bound to be some give and take there, I guess in your situation I'd sit down and think about how many of these you want to do, how long you want to be at the event, and how much money makes it an attractive option for you.

I'd speak with the other photographers you work with and just let them know this is pretty much where your at, that you'd like to still be able to help them out 2nd shooting but that you'd really like to either work only say 8 hours for this rate, if they need more than 8 hours then you'd like additional compensation.

Maybe they can work with you and only schedule for what they consider to be the 8 most critical hours of the shoot, etc.  I think if you just let them know where your coming from you'll be able to work something out.


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## Dave442 (Jun 1, 2016)

What I did on an early job like this was to set up a pay raise scale so that each job gains you an increase in pay. If you just go and ask for a 40% increase at once then its not going to happen.


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## waday (Jun 1, 2016)

Designer said:


> Give him/her your position and then shut up. Don't say another word. The next person who speaks is giving in.


I was given this advice when I started my first job. It's helped me ever since with almost all negotiating--from buying a car to dealing with regulators to asking for a raise.


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## vintagesnaps (Jun 1, 2016)

If you aren't already, get on American Society of Media Photographers where there are listings for second shooters/assistants. They have plenty of resources for professional photographers, or try PPA. Or try the Photo District News PDN Online | Photo Magazine | Pro Photography News & Gear , they do an annual wedding issue which I think is in May; I don't know offhand if they offer back issues but I think they do. ASMP also has done periodic hour long webinars, you don't have to be a member, just sign up and they email a link and a follow up so if you aren't able to participate live you can listen to it later. Maybe you're already familiar with these resources; if not you might benefit from looking into resources for pro photographers.

Even if you can establish your payment for second shooting to be what you want, that won't really (obviously) address your wrists taking a beating. I think you might need to consider what you can do before that becomes worse (hopefully it won't).


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## Dave442 (Jun 1, 2016)

As for the wrists. Use a wrist support, I have a couple friends that use them. 

I know from just having a jammed finger (as usual playing basketball) that even something small can make it difficult to hold a camera all day.


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## Vtec44 (Jun 1, 2016)

LISA ACIERNO said:


> Im an established wedding photographer and haven't minded shooting with other photographers when I was available. I just hand my card over and do not edit. Two other established photographers I work with started out paying me $325 flat rate which they pay the inexperienced girls as well and I was fine with that, but now my wrists are taking a beating and I would like more money. Asked for $25 more an hour over 8hours, but still feel like I am undercutting myself. The one guy tried to get me 12 hours for that rate and I thought he was ridiculous. They are making $3000 a wedding which is where my pricing for my own weddings is as well. I shoot just as much for my own!
> 
> Question is: How much do you pay your second/assistant photographer and what is it based on?




Hello fellow wedding photographer.

IMHO, it's irrelevant what they make.  You both agreed, or didn't agree, to work together for a certain amount in compensation.  If you both can't compromise then just walk away.  I pay my 2nd based on experience and the consistency of their work.  I'm very particular on how to pose men, details, and have very specific shots I need through various stages of the wedding.  I also reshoot a lot of the stuff that my second shooter have shot just because I generally prefer my own shots.  I almost never use my second's reception images because my lighting is always more consistent and natural.


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## KmH (Jun 1, 2016)

waday said:


> Designer said:
> 
> 
> > Give him/her your position and then shut up. Don't say another word. The next person who speaks is giving in.
> ...


Yep. A tried and true negotiating tactic I too learned way back when I first got into sales.


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## robbins.photo (Jun 1, 2016)

KmH said:


> Yep. A tried and true negotiating tactic I too learned way back when I first got into sales.



Whereas any salesman that tried that crap with me I'd just get up and walk away from.  Never saw any deal that was worth playing those kind of games over myself.  Guess I'm just funny that way.


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## pixmedic (Jun 1, 2016)

As primarily a second shooter, I found that the $300/day range is pretty good. (In my area anyway)
And you don't do any editing?
You just show up, shoot, turn in your card, and leave?!? Pfffft...what are you complaining about? That's a good deal.

Ride with me for a 12 hour shift as a paramedic on a critical care transport team and see what I have to do to get $300.

Second shooting for $300 is a sweet deal because it's cake work. Barely any responsibility with all the fun of shooting.
If you also do weddings yourself,  you know what's involved in putting a wedding shoot together, and the liabilities/responsibilities you take on to do them.

My advice? Take the $300 whatever your getting to second shoot in your spare time and be happy.


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## tirediron (Jun 1, 2016)

pixmedic said:


> ...Second shooting for $300 is a sweet deal because it's cake work. Barely any responsibility with all the fun of shooting.
> If you also do weddings yourself,  you know what's involved in putting a wedding shoot together, and the liabilities/responsibilities you take on to do them.
> 
> My advice?* Take the $300 whatever your getting to second shoot in your spare time and be happy*.


This!  If I could get a gig as a perma-second-shooter for $300/day with no processing I'd be all over it like a FOG!


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## Trever1t (Jun 1, 2016)

250 to 350 is the going rate around here too, no edit.


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## KmH (Jun 1, 2016)

robbins.photo said:


> KmH said:
> 
> 
> > Yep. A tried and true negotiating tactic I too learned way back when I first got into sales.
> ...


What in the world do you think the salesman should say?The last thing I always said as I offered a pen was, "Sign here and we'll get the paperwork started."

Once the offer is presented the ball is in the customers court. - commit and sign, or negotiate by making a counter offer.

I would venture an educated guess that you often over pay for price negotiable items.


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## robbins.photo (Jun 2, 2016)

KmH said:


> robbins.photo said:
> 
> 
> > KmH said:
> ...


So you base the idea that I pay too much for negotiated goods on the fact that I'd be the guy who wouldn't sign when you started playing games in an effort to sell me?

Lol.. Ok, sure.  

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## Antithesis (Jun 2, 2016)

I pay my seconds $25/hr., but they use my equipment. If someone had their own gear, I'd probably top out at $35/hr. We have the option to actually pay for a second photographer (otherwise they are not guaranteed one), in which case that whole fee goes to the second.  Yeah, our studio is getting a few grand per wedding, but it's not like we just stuff that in our pockets. It pays for a lot of different things, including myself as the owner of the business. Gear, rent and utilities, computers and software, professional fees for lawyers and accountants, etc.

The amount any professional charges should have been calculated according to the costs of running the business--including paying themselves a wage to match or slightly exceed the cost of living. Assuming your employer has accounted for a second shooter in that calculation, it's probably a fixed amount per package or hour. Suddenly asking for another $25/hr. and not budging on it is probably a good way to get canned. Unless you are an incredible photographer.


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