# Student Photography - need help starting this gig



## pRuben (Aug 22, 2013)

I have multiple schools around me that I hope to sign a contract with to provide yearly school student pictures. Since I have not done that, yet ( I specialize in weddings & engagements ), I am slightly puzzled on the whole process.

Does anyone have links, tips or suggestions on where to start ? Has anyone here, done ( is currently doing ) it ? I am particularly interested in your lighting equipment and the techniques on how to keep track of pictures vs names, so they won't get all mixed up. Also, are there any good school picture ordering forms available anywhere ? Who do you use for print company ? Online or local ?

Also, if you have any tips on how to approach the school board, what works, what doesn't. ANYTHING would be helpful.
Thank you in advance for your wise tips! 

- Ruben


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## Designer (Aug 22, 2013)

Where's that "popcorn" icon?

I hope you realize that you will be competing with established studios that have been doing this for many years, and have the photographers, equipment, contacts, business model, and everything else that assures that they make some money.


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## pRuben (Aug 22, 2013)

Designer said:


> Where's that "popcorn" icon?
> 
> I hope you realize that you will be competing with established studios that have been doing this for many years, and have the photographers, equipment, contacts, business model, and everything else that assures that they make some money.




Not sure what is popcorn icon, and how it is relevant to my question.  Thanks for your concerns. Do you have anything constructive to say ?


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## ronlane (Aug 22, 2013)

Here ya go designer, you bring the beer.


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## Light Guru (Aug 22, 2013)

pRuben said:


> Not sure what is popcorn icon, and how it is relevant to my question.  Thanks for your concerns. Do you have anything constructive to say ?



 The popcorn thing is sometimes used when a person thinks that a thread is going to be entertaining to follow.  

I think that the comments that you were given are constructive.  Taking school photos is NOT a easy task.  Its going to take you 3-5 people a full day or two to photograph all 400 or so kids at an elementary school.  Its not something you can take on by yourself. 

If you want to get into school photos, you have a much better chance at succeeding if you work for a company already doing them so that you have an complete understanding of what you are getting into and how an established company handles all the logistics.


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## Designer (Aug 22, 2013)

pRuben said:


> Designer said:
> 
> 
> > Where's that "popcorn" icon?
> ...



I thought that was constructive.  

My point being that you're going to have quite a fight getting into schools, and when you do, you're going to have to produce on an "industrial" scale.  

So get your portfolio ready, and give the schools a call.  

Good luck.

BTW: the popcorn means that this discussion may go on for several pages, so I want to be ready with the snacks.

RonLane; I've got most of a 12-pack of Samuel Adams Boston Lager in the fridge.


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## pRuben (Aug 22, 2013)

The school I want to start with is relatively small ( talking about 250-300 students ). I do have 2 people working with me, multiple cameras and light sets with backgrounds. My questions were pretty specific, and none of them related to your concerns about me not knowing what I am getting myself into. I understand how big of a task it is; I am not a 20 year old with a rebel camera. So unless someone has something interesting to say, please do not waste pixels, looking for specific answer folks! Lighting equipment and ideas how to organize pictures and names into some cohesive structure. Thanks!


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## ronlane (Aug 22, 2013)

Easy there pRuben. You come in guns blazing with a question about set up and business stuff without introducing yourself or giving background. Then you start demanding things, come on man. We see people on here every day that ask questions that are brand new and want to start their business and need a set up for lighting or pricing or something.

But I'll stay out of it now, good luck with your question(s).


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## tirediron (Aug 22, 2013)

Spend the $99.00 for this - ALL you need to know about volume shoooting.


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## The_Traveler (Aug 22, 2013)

I have a good friend who does exactly that.
The company is highly automated, the setups are very standard with backups for every piece of equipment, the throughput is huge and she is merely the button presser.
It is clearly a high volume, low margin business dealing with children and requiring a high degree of cooperation from the school and parents.
And all the printing is done in house.

It's hard to understand what a small start-up could offer that would beat out an existing company with a contract.


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## runnah (Aug 22, 2013)

Better off trying to do senior photos. More money, more creativity more control


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## cgipson1 (Aug 22, 2013)

pRuben said:


> The school I want to start with is relatively small ( talking about 250-300 students ). I do have 2 people working with me, multiple cameras and light sets with backgrounds. My questions were pretty specific, and none of them related to your concerns about me not knowing what I am getting myself into. I understand how big of a task it is; I am not a 20 year old with a rebel camera. So unless someone has something interesting to say, please do not waste pixels, looking for specific answer folks! Lighting equipment and ideas how to organize pictures and names into some cohesive structure. Thanks!



You state you are not a twenty year old with a Rebel, and yet you ask how what lighting equipment to use? Do you also need advice on how to set the lighting equipment up, and what settings to use? 

A professional would not have to ask about lighting equipment, and would also know how to present themselves to a potential client.

I would learn how to do the shots you need and then worry about how to go about getting clients later. Good luck!


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## pRuben (Aug 22, 2013)

Tirediron, thats *exactly* what I am looking for. Thank you so much for your time to write this response. The_Traveler: I guess without trying, we won't ever know right ? I see a potential in that venue, and would like to give it a try. I have few ideas how to make it more exciting, than just the old-style boring stuff. If this fails after a few tries, no big deal, but at least I tried and learnt something new.

ronlane, sorry if I came out too blunt - I didn't know I had to give my bio prior to posting a question. I kindly asked for help with logistics strategy and/or links to some well-known resources, thats all. Any comments that were trying to enlighten me about the size of this task, are simply unnecessary ( I am not asking for a moral support; I would put that in a trolling category : )


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## tirediron (Aug 22, 2013)

Okay folks, let's keep the vitriol to a minimum please.  Perhaps we can assume that the OP was simply asking what sort of lights anyone here who might work in the volume business uses, not what sort of lights he needed to take the pictures.


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## runnah (Aug 22, 2013)

pRuben said:


> Any comments that were trying to enlighten me about the size of this task, are simply unnecessary ( I am not asking for a moral support; I would put that in a trolling category : )



I disagree. It's as if you said you wanted to open a hamburger joint to take on McDonalds. It's no easy task and going up against such a giant is going to end in defeat. 

I think my suggestion about doing senior and family photos is much more reasonable. Think of it as a gourmet burger place, slower but better quality.


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## runnah (Aug 22, 2013)

tirediron said:


> Okay folks, let's keep the vitriol to a minimum please.  Perhaps we can assume that the OP was simply asking what sort of lights anyone here who might work in the volume business uses, not what sort of lights he needed to take the pictures.



Fine, constant light would be the best IMO.


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## pRuben (Aug 22, 2013)

cgipson1 - every photoshoot requires different lighting setup ( as you know, I hope ).  With kids running around, I was hoping if someone had an input if big softboxes will be an issue, or simply bring sets of strobes, and few kickers. Since you responded I am sure you have tons of experiences in this area. Whats your opinion about the best setup for a school classroom ?


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## runnah (Aug 22, 2013)

pRuben said:


> cgipson1 - every photoshoot requires different lighting setup ( as you know, I hope ).  With kids running around, I was hoping if someone had an input if big softboxes will be an issue, or simply bring sets of strobes, and few kickers. Since you responded I am sure you have tons of experiences in this area. Whats your opinion about the best setup for a school classroom ?



We always had ours in the gym which most have those ugly lights that cast a very blue light. You will have to contend with that or over power it using your own setup.


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## cgipson1 (Aug 22, 2013)

pRuben said:


> cgipson1 - every photoshoot requires different lighting setup ( as you know, I hope ).  With kids running around, I was hoping if someone had an input if big softboxes will be an issue, or simply bring sets of strobes, and few kickers. Since you responded I am sure you have tons of experiences in this area. Whats your opinion about the best setup for a school classroom ?



As Runnah states... usually the photos occur in the gym or the auditorium. I never shot in a classroom. I no longer shoot professionally (or at least only do so very seldom)... but what you are asking is BASIC knowledge.

I usually provide assistance to two types of photographers... noobs that want to learn (that have not hung a shingle, and have no desire to do so).... or to (actual) pros and hobbyists looking for C&C and advice. I seldom if ever help those that claim to be pro... and yet ask beginner questions. It is not my job (nor am I in any way obligated) to train people to make money. 

It has always been my opinion, that if someone charges... then they should be a PRO, and already have the prerequisite knowledge to take the shots they need to take.


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## Light Guru (Aug 22, 2013)

pRuben said:


> I do have 2 people working with me, multiple cameras and light sets with backgrounds. My questions were pretty specific, and none of them related to your concerns about me not knowing what I am getting myself into. I understand how big of a task it is; I am not a 20 year old with a rebel camera



And you provided NONE of this information.  When you started this thread it was literally your first post on here. That combined with you asking for lighting techniques, you have to admit its EASY to see how people will think that you have no idea what you are doing.  If you have ever seen a school photo you would know that there is not much "lighting technique" involved a 10 minute youtube tutorial will teach you all you need to know to light school photos. 

When reading a a forum post and it looks like the person is jumping out of the plane before attaching the para-shoot how can you be surprised at the reaction you got. 

Remember we don't know you and could only go off of the little information in the original post.


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## pRuben (Aug 22, 2013)

Runnah - good point. I just recently shoot a session in similar conditions, not the easiest lighting for sure. But thanks for the note!


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## amolitor (Aug 22, 2013)

Actually he didn't ask about lighting techniques, although it sort of reads that way:

- lighting *equipment*
- techniques for *tracking names etc*

It's actually pretty clear from the OP that the dude's done some professional work, this is just the usual TPF knee-jerk "YOU NEED TO CALCULATE YOUR CODB AND ALSO U R A DOLT" response to someone unknown asking about professional gigging.


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## Light Guru (Aug 22, 2013)

runnah said:


> pRuben said:
> 
> 
> > cgipson1 - every photoshoot requires different lighting setup ( as you know, I hope ).  With kids running around, I was hoping if someone had an input if big softboxes will be an issue, or simply bring sets of strobes, and few kickers. Since you responded I am sure you have tons of experiences in this area. Whats your opinion about the best setup for a school classroom ?
> ...



Exactly your NOT going to be shooting in a classroom, those are going to all be taken for actual classroom use with school over crowding the way it is a school would not have any extra classrooms anyway.  

Another reason you will be using the gym is because a classroom will not be big enough.  To get through all the kids at one school in a day your going to need to have 3 maybe 4 stations set up to do individual pictures, plus a bigger setup to do the photo of each class as a group. 

Add on a few people to handle logistics and you are going to need more people then what you say you have.


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## JacaRanda (Aug 22, 2013)

[/QUOTE] I've got most of a 12-pack of Samuel Adams Boston Lager in the fridge.[/QUOTE]

Ah, a fellow Samuel Adams man.  Good taste!


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## cgipson1 (Aug 22, 2013)

amolitor said:


> Actually he didn't ask about lighting techniques, although it sort of reads that way:
> 
> - lighting *equipment*
> - techniques for *tracking names etc*
> ...




You think so? When he is asking a basic question about what lighting equipment to use? I don't see it... but it does give you a chance to "DIS" all of the fine TPF members who have commented.. as usual!


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## tirediron (Aug 22, 2013)

Ah-hem!


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## CCericola (Aug 22, 2013)

Ok, here we go:

1. basic flatter lighting is used because you have people of all shapes, colors etc. Umbrellas are easiest and travel better than softboxes.
2. The school dictates what kind of photos they want. You can basically kiss any creativity goodbye.
3. The photos are used for official records, ID's, and directories. Selling them to the parents is just an addon.
4. Pictures are considered a school fundraiser so you will have to offer a percentage of sales to the school. 10-20%
5. Contracts are awarded by the school district not the principle. They have to be bid on like any government contract. Unless you go after fully private schools. Then you have the board of the private school to deal with.
6. Some school districts require you to be PSPA accredited. 
7. The priciple wants you out asap. You will have one or two days to photograph the whole school including staff and group photos. They will put you in the gym or cafeteria and you will not be allowed to be there for more than a few hours.
8. The days of record rolls are gone. You will need to provide CD's, ID cards, stickers, directories complete with names, ID numbers, homerooms, etc... The big guys like Lifetouch have all this stuff. 
9. Lots of pro labs offer school portrait services so you don't need to be an inhouse printer.
10. You will need software to make life easier. Look at Photolynx and Timestone software for schools. 
11. You will have to decide if you will offer proofs or do prepay.
12. You must calculate in reprints, retakes and refunds. There are always unhappy parents.
13. a good school photo company can get everything done and back to the school within the week. Can you do that?
14. Contracts are often awarded for several years. (Our was 5 years)
15. The teachers and staff get free pics. Can you afford that?
16. You will have to provide background checks on all your employees and give them to the school. This is at your own expense.
17. You will have only a minute or 2 to photograph each kid. If that.
18. Organization is key. 
19. be prepared for a lot of calls from parents with questions. The school will give out your contact info whether you like it or not.
20. Parent volunteers on picture day also expect free photos. Keep that in mind.
21. If you offer proofs you have to set a deadline to order.
22. Print 3 times as many order forms as there are students. Lots of pro labs offer prepay envelopes you can customize.


My opinion. Unless you have extra capitol to get all the stuff you need for school photos you can't compete with the big guys price wise so concentrate on offering a better quality product.


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## Designer (Aug 22, 2013)

Wow!  Christina, that is a perfect, detailed answer!  

Don't be surprised if the OP considers it condescending.  After all, he's a PRO, you know.


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## pRuben (Aug 22, 2013)

hey Christina, thanks for your answer, thats tons of fantastic and helpful tips. Between you and tirediron, I feel like I got what I came here for - at least thats a fantastic start, and I do appreciate your time to write this. 
Do you mind if I PM you down the road with some other questions ? It seems like the bored kids here, are just awaiting to spam this thread ( trying not to give them any chances 

Beer on me girl, anytime you are in Colorado.


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## CCericola (Aug 22, 2013)

Speaking of Colorado, there used to be a school photography software company out there. Denver I think. They also had a working school photo business and would invite potential buyers to shoots to see how the program worked. I'll see if I can find them ( was years ago). I do remember that they were unique in that you paid one time for the software instead of renewing a license every year.


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## pRuben (Aug 22, 2013)

Thank would be very helpful! Thank you!


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