# Starting to exibit/sell photos



## acparsons (Feb 12, 2014)

Hello All,

   I am a long time photographer, but new to the exhibit/art scene. I have a couple of questions.

1. I have maybe 3 photos that are kinda popular, they have eat been in a small publication and I have shown them at one small exhibition. If people like them, should I keep showing them at exhibitions?

2. I have sold a print of a photo, is it ethical to sell a print of the same photo many times? 

                                  Thanks for the tips.


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## manaheim (Feb 12, 2014)

It's common to sign and serialize photos.. so 1/50, 2/50, etc. A question I've always wondered about is if you don't serialize them, is it still ethical to sell them in ADDITION to the numbered ones?  So let's say someone sells all 50 of their series.  Can they still sell prints without numbers after the fact?  It feels wrong to me, but I can see arguments where it would not be.

As far as showing your commonly liked works- yes, I'd say keep showing them, though do try to slip in other things too, otherwise people could in theory start to think you only have those three pictures.


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## acparsons (Feb 12, 2014)

manaheim said:


> It's common to sign and serialize photos.. so 1/50, 2/50, etc. A question I've always wondered about is if you don't serialize them, is it still ethical to sell them in ADDITION to the numbered ones?  So let's say someone sells all 50 of their series.  Can they still sell prints without numbers after the fact?  It feels wrong to me, but I can see arguments where it would not be.
> 
> As far as showing your commonly liked works- yes, I'd say keep showing them, though do try to slip in other things too, otherwise people could in theory start to think you only have those three pictures.




That's great advice. I don't think I'll sell 50, but I'll serialize just the same. I'll be rotating some in for sure. 

                     Cheers,

                            AC


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## imagemaker46 (Feb 12, 2014)

Years ago I had some rare football shots and decided to sell just 10 of them numbered, all 10 sold right away. I keep getting people asking for copies but because I numbered them it would be unethical for me to sell more.  Honestly I regret attaching a number to them.  I wasn't expecting them to sell in the first place, you just never know.


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## acparsons (Feb 12, 2014)

Expert opinion, do you think that this photo would sell? What could I charge for example a 11x17, I have no idea.


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## sm4him (Feb 12, 2014)

NOBODY can really tell you whether a photo is likely to sell, nor how much you should charge for it. My general guideline is to sell a print for 2-3 times the cost. Smaller prints I charge three times the cost, the bigger the print, the closer I get to the 2x cost mark, although probably usually more like 2.25x or 2.5x.

Some guidelines on the numbering thing:
1. IF you choose to number, you are creating LIMITED EDITION prints. You are, in essence, saying that you are placing a LIMIT on how many of them are available. Therefore, as imagemaker says, imo it would be unethical to sell that limited number then just keep selling them without a number.  
What you COULD do is alter the photo--for instance, the B&W might be a limited print edition, but not the color version.
2. You should charge more for limited edition prints. The idea is, you're limiting how many of these there will be, and it enhances their value. So, whereas I might charge $40 for a framed, mounted 11x14 standard print (I just made that number up, it may or may not be reasonable), if I were to make that print a limited edition of say 100, then I might charge $125 for the exact same size print--because I will only be selling 100 of them, and then that's IT, no more money can be made from that print.

EDIT: An addendum to the "is this photo likely to sell" question--I find it pretty amusing and consternating what people are most likely to like and buy in fine art photography.  Much of what I consider my "better" work, in a critical, artistic sense, doesn't necessarily go over that well with the non-art crowd. 
But take a photo of a bird, slap something inspirational on it, and people will eat that stuff up! :lmao:


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## ronlane (Feb 12, 2014)

manaheim said:


> It's common to sign and serialize photos.. so 1/50, 2/50, etc. A question I've always wondered about is if you don't serialize them, is it still ethical to sell them in ADDITION to the numbered ones?  So let's say someone sells all 50 of their series.  Can they still sell prints without numbers after the fact?  It feels wrong to me, but I can see arguments where it would not be.
> 
> As far as showing your commonly liked works- yes, I'd say keep showing them, though do try to slip in other things too, otherwise people could in theory start to think you only have those three pictures.



Manny, not to start a huge debate, but my thought would be as long as people want to buy the print, why not sell them. I realize that the argument is that the less of them makes them more "expensive" but I've never really heard of that extra money going to the artist or photographers pocket. I realize that I may be off-base on this one, but that's my thought.


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## sm4him (Feb 12, 2014)

ronlane said:


> manaheim said:
> 
> 
> > It's common to sign and serialize photos.. so 1/50, 2/50, etc. A question I've always wondered about is if you don't serialize them, is it still ethical to sell them in ADDITION to the numbered ones?  So let's say someone sells all 50 of their series.  Can they still sell prints without numbers after the fact?  It feels wrong to me, but I can see arguments where it would not be.
> ...



Why would the extra money NOT go to the photographer/artist?

I think it's just standard operating procedure in the art world that if you make your work a limited edition, it should NOT be sold beyond that number. Otherwise, it renders the inherent value in the limited edition null and there's no reason to even offer the numbered version.


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## ronlane (Feb 12, 2014)

Sharon, I'm referring to re-sell. The artist/photographer is only going to receive the money for the original sale. I've never heard of them getting money on the resale.

I have seen framed photos that were limited edition, numbered prints that you could purchase the same photo not numbered. One example is of Tiger Woods when he won his first Masters Tournament. There were framed copies available for sale, but you could still purchase the photo that was not part of the limited edition.


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## manaheim (Feb 12, 2014)

ronlane said:


> manaheim said:
> 
> 
> > It's common to sign and serialize photos.. so 1/50, 2/50, etc. A question I've always wondered about is if you don't serialize them, is it still ethical to sell them in ADDITION to the numbered ones?  So let's say someone sells all 50 of their series.  Can they still sell prints without numbers after the fact?  It feels wrong to me, but I can see arguments where it would not be.
> ...



That's a decision you have to make, and the worthiness of your choice will be judged by the market.


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## wyogirl (Feb 12, 2014)

Lots of times, the Limited Edition Numbered Print is of one size, for example 11x14.
Then, other sizes of the exact same shot are not numbered or limited.


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## acparsons (Feb 12, 2014)

This is all very helpful.


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## sm4him (Feb 12, 2014)

wyogirl said:


> Lots of times, the Limited Edition Numbered Print is of one size, for example 11x14.
> Then, other sizes of the exact same shot are not numbered or limited.



I think you're right, though I'm not 100% certain of that.
Also, I think sometimes the limited edition may even just be of a certain TYPE--for instance, 50 metal prints or a limited edition of 100 canvas prints.


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## wyogirl (Feb 12, 2014)

sm4him said:


> wyogirl said:
> 
> 
> > Lots of times, the Limited Edition Numbered Print is of one size, for example 11x14.
> ...


You are correct about that.


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## manaheim (Feb 12, 2014)

Btw I sell my prints in frames...  12 by 18... $275-400, depending on the picture.


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## KmH (Feb 12, 2014)

Selling prints is different than selling use licensing.
Use licensing income from stock images isn't what it used to be.
Except for limited editions, it is indeed ethical to sell the same photo over and over again.

Pricing is all over the place because it's driven by so many factors.
Print size. 
Matte finish, lustre coated (UV protection, adds a subtle sheen), gloss finish, C-print, inkjet (Giclée), press print.
Framed or not framed. Bargain basement framing materials, middle grade or archival museum quality framing materials.
Canvas. On acrylic. On metal. Standout.

For an 11x17 C-Print, matte finish, lustre coating, no frame, no mount - 11" x 17" = 187 sq in
At $1 per square inch the print would cost $187. Inkjet prints, metallic paper, canvas, acrylic, metal, cost more.
The same print as a metallic C-print would be $1.25 per square inch or $234.

11x17 is an odd-ball print size and aspect ratio that would require a custom made print and custom framing.
But. a way around that is to have the print made on a larger standard size sheet of print paper like 16x24 so there is blank paper all around the photo.
The blank paper then facilitates mounting and framing the photo in a standard 16x24 frame.
A mat can be cut with a 11x17 window in it for the photo, and the mat then goes between the mounted print and the glazing in the frame so the print can't stick to the glazing.


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## vintagesnaps (Feb 12, 2014)

What I've seen done typically is that a photo may be sold without numbering as a standard print, and the same photo could be sold in a different quality/different size done using a different process, and numbered as a limited edition (you might see something being sold for example as a silver gelatin limited edition).

What I'm considering with some of my photos would be to sell darkroom prints as limited and inkjet copies of the same photo as standard unlimited prints. I've gotten into doing alternate processes and eventually any of those I'd try selling would be limited to a one of a kind original (if the process doesn't use a negative and is done directly on photo paper) then the copies would be from a scan and could be unlimited and priced lower.

Pricing seems to vary depending on where it's being sold. I usually notice pricing at exhibits and art shows etc. to learn what the range is for that gallery or show. A small matted photo being sold at an art fair would be less than a larger print being sold in a gallery. Some of that is driven by the photos being accepted into a gallery would be more limited in the number being displayed, and would need to go thru a selection process, compared to what might be sold at an arts & craft show where you're renting table space. From what I've seen more established well known photographers have prints priced higher than others being displayed, but most galleries/shows seem to have a range of prices for that particular venue or event.


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## manaheim (Feb 12, 2014)

I actually worked out a spreadsheet that calculates it based upon materials, my time in framing the piece, and some added value for the art and the rarity.


*Print Size**Print Cost**Frame Cost**Glass Cost**Total Cost (Materials-Framed)**Framing Labor**Print Only Art Price Standard**F/F**Print Only Art Price Special**F/F**Framed Art Price Standard**F/F**Framed Art Price Special**F/F*9x6$10.00$30.00$10.00$50.00$50.00$190.00$145.00$235.00$180.00$280.00$225.00$325.00$255.0012x8$12.00$35.00$10.00$57.00$50.00$190.00$145.00$235.00$180.00$285.00$230.00$330.00$265.0015x10$18.00$40.00$10.00$68.00$50.00$200.00$155.00$245.00$185.00$300.00$240.00$345.00$275.0018x12$20.00$46.00$12.00$78.00$50.00$200.00$155.00$245.00$190.00$310.00$250.00$355.00$285.0024x16$35.00$67.00$25.00$127.00$50.00$215.00$170.00$260.00$205.00$355.00$300.00$400.00$335.0030x20$45.00$85.00$50.00$180.00$50.00$225.00$180.00$270.00$215.00$410.00$355.00$455.00$385.0036x24$85.00$100.00$75.00$260.00$50.00$265.00$220.00$310.00$255.00$490.00$435.00$535.00$465.00


The F/F is my friends and family discount. 

This is actually a slightly older rev... but I'm too lazy to go get the new one. 

Anyway, I figured it might be useful to see.

BTW, I also use pretty good materials.  Acid-free. I try to go for archival matting and backing.  I'd love to do UV resistant glass, but holy CRAP is that stuff expensive.


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## Tailgunner (Feb 12, 2014)

It just seems to me that whether you number a print or not, you're eventually going to move on to other prints. I mean, as you grow, your portfolio expands and you're going to add new images to your exhibits/shows each year. Todays favorites will move to the back of the line up while new photos will take center stage.


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## KmH (Feb 12, 2014)

FWIW - All glass is UV resistant.
Glass and UV Penetration
Picture framing glass - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## L.Ray (Feb 16, 2014)

I am new to freelance work and I'm trying to build a portfolio and set up proper packages to offer to my clients. Does anyone happen to have any advice on the matter? I would be very greatful=)


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## bribrius (Feb 16, 2014)

oh geez. and here I am buying frames from walmart hoping to sell photos in this years sidewalk art festival...


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## manaheim (Feb 16, 2014)

bribrius said:


> oh geez. and here I am buying frames from walmart hoping to sell photos in this years sidewalk art festival...



Remind me again how you try not to draw attention to yourself?


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