# school photo's and packages



## shanne1020 (Sep 20, 2013)

I have been asked by a school to take the pictures the cheerleaders.  they are wanting to do it outside.  The camera I have is a Nikon 5100.  I  have the stock lens  and I bought the 70-200  auto focus lens.  I've played and experimented with this camera and took lots of pictures.  I've gotten pretty good with settings.. 

 My  first question-  will this camera do the job?..  and what about the lens.


2nd question..  how do I go about getting packages printed for each cheerleader?

Any advice will be appreciated


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## KmH (Sep 20, 2013)

The camera and lens will do the job.
Photographer skill and knowledge is usually what ultimately determines image quality. 

You will likely need to use some fill lighting, be it flash or reflected.
A lot of new photographers don't realize that supplemental lighting is usually needed when shooting outside.
Mid-day sunlight can be very harsh and cast deep shadows that make for unflattering lighting for doing high quality photography. When the light is like that, diffusing the harsh sunlight can help a lot. If it is overcast, flash can really add some 'pop' to your subjects, particularly if the flash of light is from off the lens axis (Off Camera Flash, or OCF)  
So hopefully you can use the quality and direction of the outside light to your advantage.
Scroll down to see the lighting setup used outside here - Strobist: On Assignment: Kai-Huei Yau's Football Previews

Pretty much all digital images need some amount of post process image editing. One important edit is sharpening the image to correct for the focus softening caused by the anti-aliasing filter in front of the camera's image sensor. Image sharpening is best done as a 3 stage process - capture sharpening, local/artistic sharpening, and output sharpening.
A variety of image factors, like edge frequency and image content, determine how much and what kind of sharpening should be done.

As far as packages, Miller's Professional Imaging has a pic-a-pac service that is hard to beat. Miller's Professional Imaging

Web sites:
http://neilvn.com/tangents/flash-photography-techniques/
Strobist: Lighting 101

Books:
Direction & Quality of Light: Your Key to Better Portrait Photography Anywhere
Off-Camera Flash Techniques for Digital Photographers
Minimalist Lighting: Professional Techniques for Location Photography


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## orljustin (Sep 20, 2013)

shanne1020 said:


> I have been asked by a school to take the pictures the cheerleaders.  they are wanting to do it outside.  The camera I have is a Nikon 5100.  I  have the stock lens  and I bought the 70-200  auto focus lens.  I've played and experimented with this camera and took lots of pictures.  I've gotten pretty good with the settings



Oh, well, as long as you've played with it enough, you can do anything!  Weddings, inaugurations,etc.


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## tirediron (Sep 20, 2013)

Is this a paid commission, or a 'parent helping out the school' scenario?  If it's the latter, then go ahead, do your best, and how it works out is how it works out.  If it's the former, well...  the tone of your post rather leads me to think you may not be at the level you need to be to properly discharge this.


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## shanne1020 (Sep 20, 2013)

Thanks for all the input and advice..  yes this is a  paying job.  

 Here is my website,  feel free to critique my work.

Biloxi Mississippi photography - Beachnpics


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## KmH (Sep 20, 2013)

I took a quick look and most of your subjects are under exposed or have dark eye sockets (raccoon eyes).
The backgrounds are generally under exposed too.
Put another way your subjects don't 'pop' from the backgrounds.

Do you use the portrait framing camera orientation, because on the first page they are all landscape framing ?

Optimizing Exposure
ETTR

*Tones & Contrast*

Understanding Histograms, Part 1: Tones & Contrast
Understanding Histograms, Part 2: Luminosity & Color
Using the "Levels" Tool in Photoshop
Using the "Curves" Tool in Photoshop
*Sharpening & Detail*

Understanding Sharpness
Guide to Image Sharpening
Sharpening Using the "Unsharp Mask" Tool
Using Local Contrast Enhancement


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## shanne1020 (Sep 20, 2013)

I  did use portrait framing  on some of the photos I  took..  These worked better with the website do I used these..  and I  do like to mix it up abit.  

I  didn't use flash on these and it was late in the afternoon.  I  was experimenting with iso  settings.   the ones I  used the flash seemed to bright.


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## tirediron (Sep 20, 2013)

shanne1020 said:


> ... the ones I used the flash seemed to bright.


This statement causes me some concern about your chances for success.


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## shanne1020 (Sep 21, 2013)

thanks KmH.. I will work on that.

Tireiron..   no thoughts really


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## astroNikon (Sep 21, 2013)

I never really got the basics of flash lightening until I bought two flashes and my SU800 controller.  
I was originally inspired by this short video, which was really about the SU800 and radio triggers.  But it goes through with a basic flash technique and then improves it - albeit on one single model in a studio, versus outside.
PocketWizard® - Using your Nikon SU-800 as a Master Controller

The video isn't much,  but it shows the progression of the flash shot.  The books and links KmH provide are awesome too.


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## shanne1020 (Sep 21, 2013)

thanks astro.. 
 I'm  gonna  check  that out here in a bit..


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## astroNikon (Sep 21, 2013)

It is so easy to get overwhelmed with "technology & technique"  but that video, for me, simplified it and helped everything make sense. At least at the beginner stage.
Then it made reading the Lighting 101 much easier because I understood the flash and doing Manual 1/128, or 1/32 , the backflash, an umbrella and soft box which were all used in that video.

I'm doing some freebie shots of my soccer teams in action and portraits.
The "package" is the most complex part for me .. but it's just using the Walmart printer machines that they have.
My first attempt at sports I basically have 3 or 4 shots on a 8x10 of someone making a goal.  I think it was neat at first, but the composition of the entire page needs work looking back.  But you have to start somewhere.


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## gsgary (Sep 21, 2013)

If you can't answer these simply questions you are in over your head


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## 12sndsgood (Sep 22, 2013)

My philosophy when I started my business was I don't do any paid job that i'm not experienced in. At this point in time if you've never done this before you should pass up on the job to risk looking bad, go out, do your research, practice get the experience and then talk to them next year.


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## tirediron (Sep 22, 2013)

shanne1020 said:


> thanks KmH.. I will work on that.
> 
> Tireiron.. no thoughts really


To elaborate:  While I don't mean to seem rude, if you're 'experimenting' with ISO settings, that indicates to me that you're not totally familiar with your camera, equipment, and technique.  Fair enough, we all started somewhere, but that also makes me think that taking on a commission such as shooting a cheerleading squad might be a bit beyond your ability right now.  Granted, you could do it all against a concrete wall with your pop-up flash, but you're not likely to enhance your reputation by doing that.

You could also do it with one or two off-camera speedlights as astroNikon indicated; the SU-800 allows a LOT of flexibility, but there's a reason why almost every major volume photographer comes in with either a Broncolor, Speedotron, or Dyna-lite set-up; you need reliable light with fast recycle times, and a system that can do that all day long.  Speedlights were NOT built to do that.  Why not talk to some local pros who may be more skilled in the areas of volume shooting and lighting and working with them on this?  It would be a fantastic learning opportunity, and you could still keep your name on the job.


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## astroNikon (Sep 22, 2013)

tirediron said:


> shanne1020 said:
> 
> 
> > thanks KmH.. I will work on that.
> ...





astroNikon said:


> I never really got the basics of flash lightening until I bought two flashes and my SU800 controller.



well I actually didn't mean to shoot an entire cheerleading squad with 2 flashes.  I meant that I started learning the basics when I went to 2 off camera flashes with the SU800.   If I was doing a "team" photo like that outside I'd need more power.  Or just shoot them with the available natural lighting (depending if it is during a game or posed shots), which I learned alot yesterday shooting my kids soccer.  Those darn Clouds coming and going like a long choo-choo train covering the sun .. ISO 100 .. ISO 400 ... back and forth .. accidentally hitting the WB .. wth ??   nice lesson learnt.


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## tirediron (Sep 22, 2013)

astroNikon said:


> ...well I actually didn't mean to shoot an entire cheerleading squad with 2 flashes. I meant that I started learning the basics when I went to 2 off camera flashes with the SU800. If I was doing a "team" photo like that outside I'd need more power. Or just shoot them with the available natural lighting (depending if it is during a game or posed shots), which I learned alot yesterday shooting my kids soccer. Those darn Clouds coming and going like a long choo-choo train covering the sun .. ISO 100 .. ISO 400 ... back and forth .. accidentally hitting the WB .. wth ?? nice lesson learnt.


Understood; I didn't mean to put words in your mouth, just echoing your sentiment that the SU 800 was a useful tool, and adding that you _could_ do the job that way, but I wouldn't recommend it!


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## astroNikon (Sep 22, 2013)

Ironically, I always watch "the paid pros" when they take pictures of the kids teams around here (since my kids are in sports I'm kinda always there anyways).

Last Spring they did it inside with those heavy duty electrical powered flash lights.  But the previous spring they did them outside - the team shots without any additional light except ambient.  and individual shots with 1 speedlight/battery packs & umbrella flash.

Now I'm curious if it was the same company or not.


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## Tee (Sep 22, 2013)

astroNikon said:


> Last Spring they did it inside with those heavy duty electrical powered flash lights.  But the previous spring they did them outside - the team shots without any additional light except ambient.  and individual shots with 1 speedlight/battery packs & umbrella flash.
> 
> Now I'm curious if it was the same company or not.





Every condition requires different lighting.  Maybe the ambient light was at the sweet spot that didn't require flash?  That's where having a working knowledge of lighting comes into play.  

To the OP: if you need a quick visual resource for off camera lighting, check out Adorama TV on YouTube for tutorials by Mark Wallace.  Also, if you're not sweating this, you should.  School pictures are not the time to suddenly learn. Parents can be wicked if their precious Johnny ends up looking like a walking zombie.


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## astroNikon (Sep 22, 2013)

Tee said:


> Every condition requires different lighting.  Maybe the ambient light was at the sweet spot that didn't require flash?  That's where having a working knowledge of lighting comes into play.



It was scheduled about a month in advance.  The morning started out overcast with sprinkles, as the day wore on it broke up and was bright sunshine.  So a camera, and a bunch of kids and luckily someone that knew what they were doing with the camera.


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## cgipson1 (Sep 22, 2013)

Threads like this crack me up! They want all of our knowledge, but never offer to share the paycheck!  lol!


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## astroNikon (Sep 22, 2013)

cgipson1 said:


> Threads like this crack me up! They want all of our knowledge, but never offer to share the paycheck!  lol!



Yes, you are spewing out your knowledge which is translated to "information" for us
For us more newbies the "information" is not knowledge/ experience.

I can regurgitate parts of the Strobist website, but until I play around and actually figure it out ( at a certain lower level than what is actually discussed which is at a low level anyways) it doesn't mean diddly.  As one gains experience one starts understanding the concepts that are known, but much more deeply and intensely, over and over again.  It's like anything .. I know how to play soccer, but I'm no Beckham.


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## cgipson1 (Sep 22, 2013)

astroNikon said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> > Threads like this crack me up! They want all of our knowledge, but never offer to share the paycheck!  lol!
> ...



I have a policy I usually follow... NON-Pros, I will teach, help, assist, etc... any way I can! Those who are charging... are automatically PRO's! Why would a PRO need me to teach them what is basically beginner stuff? 

Oh wait... they have only owned a camera for 6 days? But are charging? So they are 6 day PRO's (and yes, this really happens!) .... and I still won't help them!


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