# SNOBS!!!!!



## molested_cow (Dec 14, 2012)

For some reason a lot of photographers I come across are just snobs.

Yesterday there were some visitors at the school and one of them had a D800. So I asked the guy what lens he has on it. Just just said nothing and "showed" me the lens. I was like.... ok, great! Can't even be bothered to say "24-70".

Then there was the pro photographer who was just whining about how others are wrong blah blah blah. It just seems that many many photographers get "defensive" when being approached. For me, I am more than happy to talk to anyone about what I am doing. When shooting star trails, people get curious what I am doing out at night pointing my camera into the darkness. I explain what I am doing and show them photos on my phone of my previous star trails photos. A cop once came and I did the same, then he got excited and took out his high power flash light and went searching for flying squirrels in the woods for me. The kids at school don't even get to play with digital p&s, so I let them run around with my D700 whenever I can. 

If you really enjoy something, sharing it makes it even more enjoyable.


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## tirediron (Dec 14, 2012)

molested_cow said:


> ...If you really enjoy something, sharing it makes it even more enjoyable.


This!!!!!!!!!!!


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## unpopular (Dec 14, 2012)

i don't need to be snobby about gear, because I am just that much better than everyone else.


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## Pallycow (Dec 14, 2012)

I find that a lot as well.  The "snob" attitude.  

I let someone hold my 7D once and another photog there said "you just let that kid hold your thousand dollar camera, you're crazy...no one touches my stuff".  I just smiled and said "maybe it will inspire him to hold a nice piece of equipment, something to work towards"

People are diks, everywhere and anywhere, just don't be one of them.  ;-)

My favorite is when the ones being snobbish have no clue and only have nice things because they have money to do so.


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## Mully (Dec 14, 2012)

Ever been to an ASMP meeting.....snobfest.  Photographers like to be snobs, makes them feel a cut above.


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## e.rose (Dec 14, 2012)

Haha!  My husband has expressed on more than one occasion that he thinks photographers are some of the most snotty and ridiculous people ever.  He states this after I get done regaling  him of the latest drama from the FB groups I'm in and what not.  

"Dude, on the drum forums everyone is cool.  I mean sometimes we rag on each other just for fun, but *everyone* knows we're joking.  It's fun... no one argues about anything.  We just talk about gear and sh*t.  But PHOTOGRAPHERS... they're always fighting about the DUMBEST sh*t.  Who CARES?  Why do you even bother going to those forums???"  

I've also been known, on occasion, to utter the phrase, "Photographers are suck pretentious d*cks..." from time to time.   :lmao:


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## Derrel (Dec 14, 2012)

That Leica red dot carries a lot of snob appeal. Has for decades.


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## texkam (Dec 15, 2012)

Interior decorators. "nuff said.


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## Demers18 (Dec 15, 2012)

texkam said:
			
		

> Interior decorators. "nuff said.



Yep!


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## cgipson1 (Dec 15, 2012)

I get tired of the people always complaining about photographers being snobs.... it is so snobby!


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## Majeed Badizadegan (Dec 15, 2012)

To snob or not to snob?


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## cgipson1 (Dec 15, 2012)

Go blow your nose, you have snob hanging out of it!


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## John27 (Dec 15, 2012)

Have to say I agree with the sentiment.  I've felt that here and other places. I've also been on the receiving end, trying to get a tricky shot at an event (like a school event or something) and some kid comes up and says "Oh hey cool camera I bet that cost a lot of money".

I think it's one of those 'worn down' things.  Seems to be pro photogs more than anything.  Sick of the same questions, sick of the same annoying wannabes, sick of everyone and their brother wanting to become a professional and having ZERO tolerance for any criticism.  So much so that they become immune to any actual receptive, inquisitive, and perhaps talented individuals that might come their way.  They are already locked in to 'Go away kid daddy's working' mode.  Can't say I blame 'em!


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## bunny99123 (Dec 15, 2012)

Hey, John, maybe you need to take a Snob-Quill if symptoms continue. If not improved by 5 days, make an appointment with a cardiac physician to test your heart. People are worth more than a photograph.

I agree, this field has a lot of egocentric individuals. It is so competitive, that majority of photographers won't help other photographers. 

Not just photography field though...attorneys, hairdressers, physicians, real estate agents..crap this list can go on and on.


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## John27 (Dec 15, 2012)

Oh, sorry Bunny I think I worded that wrong.  The sentiment I agree it's was the OP's.  I was just playing the devils advocate, my theory as to "why". 

Doesnt excuse the behavior, I'm only acknowledging it.  Otherwise I wholeheartedly agree.  You can tell the difference between those who love photography, and those who only pretend to.  Those who love it get excited about sharing their knowledge with others.  The others, for some reason, can't stand the thought of bringing anyone new into the hobby and where, apparently, born with all of their abilities!


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## LaFoto (Dec 15, 2012)

I think that in every snobbish or arrogant behaviour there's a hidden insecurity. It's just the chosen weapon to shield someone's own doubts about they're doing and if they're actually doing it right and well.


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## bratkinson (Dec 15, 2012)

Here I thought that having big white lenses or lenses with a red ring was what's required to be a snob....or was that what's needed to be able to call oneself a pro???  I'm getting confused in my 'senile years'...


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## EIngerson (Dec 15, 2012)

This thread bores me. I'm going to hang out with the REAL people that have red rings on their lenses. "yawn"


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## Overread (Dec 15, 2012)

*SONY*


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## SCraig (Dec 15, 2012)

I have better things to do than read through all this thread.  Can someone condense it for me?


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## molested_cow (Dec 15, 2012)

texkam, I was THAT close to killing that annoying bug on my screen!


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## molested_cow (Dec 15, 2012)

SCraig said:


> I have better things to do than read through all this thread.  Can someone condense it for me?


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## BrianV (Dec 15, 2012)

Derrel said:


> That Leica red dot carries a lot of snob appeal. Has for decades.



Well, if Argus had come out with the D-C3, maybe it would have some competition for Digital RF's. Till then, I'll just make do...

If I see someone out with a classic film camera- I ask about it. If someone asks about mine, always glad to talk to them. Last family vacation, seeing some people with "Dad" taking pictures of everyone else, I offer to take it for them. When they reciprocate, I do set the focus on the M9 before handing it to them.

Never judge a photographer by their camera?


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## STIC (Dec 15, 2012)

LaFoto said:


> I think that in every snobbish or arrogant behaviour there's a hidden insecurity. It's just the chosen weapon to shield someone's own doubts about they're doing and if they're actually doing it right and well.



Yep...

Also, you will often find the more photography is a hobby, the more the photographer will want to 'share' with others, and , inversely, the more photography is a job (read a source of income), the more likely the photographer is to be aloof or snobbish...

This is most likely to be a defense mechanism to protect their income; they make a living from what they do, and if they 'share' settings, technique and equipment spec with others (especially budding 'pros') then they are possibly 'cutting their own throats' by 'helping' the competition.

There are also differing types of 'snob'...

The *equipment* snob ('L' snob):

These people (whether any good or not) will always look down on a fellow photographer because they are NOT shooting constant 2.8 'L' lenses...(even though one would have to wonder if someone getting good pics without the 'L' lens is possibly even better than the 'pro' who needs to use an 'L' to get as good a shot)...

The *'media pass' *snob, the *'wedding photographer as guest at the wedding you are shooting'* snob, the *'I've been doing it for 30 years and you only just started so you're not worth acknowledging'* snob...

...and, the one i have a pet hate for...the *'trained in photography'* snob:

Because i got into photography as an amateur who liked photography and perused it to a point where I know (more or less :er: ) what i'm doing, I often don't know the correct 'photographic term' for what i'm doing because I've picked it up as i went. I would often (and still do) find myself at events talking to other 'pros' who would enjoy talking down to me as i did not know the correct term for something and hadn't 'trained in photography'...despite the fact that i was at the event because I was considered good enough for magazines and newspapers to regularly buy my work and eventually be offered the editor's job at one of the publications (I write, and do some graphic design too)...


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## usayit (Dec 15, 2012)

Derrel said:


> That Leica red dot carries a lot of snob appeal. Has for decades.



But often doesn't reflect the user behind the red dot...    In fact, the only "snobs" with a Leica I've run into usually get frustrated and sell it off to a auto-DSLR something soon afterwards.


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## gsgary (Dec 15, 2012)

Nothing snobby about Leica most of use have them because they are so nice to use


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## unpopular (Dec 15, 2012)

snobbery happens. if you're bothered by it, you're in for a long life of being bothered.


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## secuono (Dec 15, 2012)

Every hobby has snobs, some worst than others. I either avoid them or ignore them, no point in chilling them out.


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## unpopular (Dec 15, 2012)

Something about saying "just look how humble I am" is a bit snobby to me. The irony of these sorts of discussions never cease to amaze.


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## LaFoto (Dec 15, 2012)

gsgary said:


> Nothing snobby about Leica most of use have them because they are so nice to use



Eh?
I (seem to) have mine in order to brag to you about it!!! Ts...!



Aaaand to NOT let you have it! So there ...


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## molested_cow (Dec 15, 2012)

unpopular said:


> Something about saying "just look how humble I am" is a bit snobby to me. The irony of these sorts of discussions never cease to amaze.



Snob identified!!!


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## BrianV (Dec 15, 2012)

You get snobs, and inverse snobs. An enthusiast is rarely a snob, they want to share their enthusiasm. I always liked reading Jason Schneider's collector's corner in Pop Photo. He would be as excited finding a Kodak Pony new in a box as anything else. 

I gave the adapted Argus Cintar away to a friend that admired it. Can always make a new one for myself. The performance equaled the Leica Elmar, more swirly Bokeh like a Summitar. It's all about having fun.

There are users of almost every major camera brand that come across as snobs, always announcing their selection is the greatest, everything else is crap. They are rarely in a position to understand the basis of their statements, and cannot not defend the position.


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## unpopular (Dec 15, 2012)

we're all snobs. we do what we do and believe what we believe because we think it's right. This "to each his own" is only denying oneself the benefit of certainty. Humility is only a virtue as an appeal to the indecisive and insecure.


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## Canuk (Dec 15, 2012)

Pallycow said:


> I find that a lot as well.  The "snob" attitude.
> 
> I let someone hold my 7D once and another photog there said "you just let that kid hold your thousand dollar camera, you're crazy...no one touches my stuff".  I just smiled and said "maybe it will inspire him to hold a nice piece of equipment, something to work towards"
> 
> ...



I get these same looks and responses when I let my daughter run around the MX track w/ my 60D and 70-200. I just tell them its only a camera and that its meant to be used.


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## jake337 (Dec 15, 2012)

Next time make sure to let them know their head is a candy shell.   






Richard.


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## IByte (Dec 15, 2012)

Mully said:


> Ever been to an ASMP meeting.....snobfest.  Photographers like to be snobs, makes them feel a cut above.



Because they are insecure, think you are trying to cut their business.


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## IByte (Dec 15, 2012)

unpopular said:


> we're all snobs. we do what we do and believe what we believe because we think it's right. This "to each his own" is only denying oneself the benefit of certainty. Humility is only a virtue as an appeal to the indecisive and insecure.



Nooo that's a cloud of smug.


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## cgipson1 (Dec 15, 2012)

John27 said:


> Oh, sorry Bunny I think I worded that wrong.  The sentiment I agree it's was the OP's.  I was just playing the devils advocate, my theory as to "why".
> 
> Doesnt excuse the behavior, I'm only acknowledging it.  Otherwise I wholeheartedly agree.  You can tell the difference between those who love photography, and those who only pretend to.  Those who love it get excited about sharing their knowledge with others.  The others, for some reason, can't stand the thought of bringing anyone new into the hobby and where, apparently, born with all of their abilities!



Many of us have no problem sharing our knowledge... with people that admit to being noobs, and want to learn. 

Some of us strongly dislike sharing knowledge with supposed "PROS" that charge money for poor quality images, and ask silly, BEGINNER questions here... like how to do their next shoot, that they are charging for, but don't have a clue how to shoot it. Are we in any way obligated to help them? NO! The real question is should they be charging people for learning how to shoot? Is that ethical? Why should we help them get paid, when we don't get paid?

We are not obligated to share our knowledge... but we choose to. Sometimes it is actually a lot of work to do so. We don't get paid for it... we just get satisfaction out of it when someone does well.

Is this what you are referring to?


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## cgipson1 (Dec 15, 2012)

bratkinson said:


> Here I thought that having big white lenses or lenses with a red ring was what's required to be a snob....or was that what's needed to be able to call oneself a pro???  I'm getting confused in my 'senile years'...



Depends on how you define "PRO"! Many only need a Rebel XS with a Kit Lens... and some daylight. (and NO.. I am not being an equipment SNOB.. I am merely hating on the types of people that buy an entry level camera and go PRO with very little to no knowledge!! (whether it is a Nikon 3000, Sony A37, or a Canon T2i or whatever!)

And yes.. I knew you were being facetious... but I thought a real answer was needed! lol! 

(gets off soapbox!)


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## bunny99123 (Dec 15, 2012)

That was a nice statement, and I agree with you


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## SCraig (Dec 15, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> Many of us have no problem sharing our knowledge... with people that admit to being noobs, and want to learn.
> 
> Some of us strongly dislike sharing knowledge with supposed "PROS" that charge money for poor quality images, and ask silly, BEGINNER questions here... like how to do their next shoot, that they are charging for, but don't have a clue how to shoot it. Are we in any way obligated to help them? NO! The real question is should they be charging people for learning how to shoot? Is that ethical? Why should we help them get paid, when we don't get paid?
> 
> ...



Pretty much sums it up for me.  I would only add include those that claim they are doing it for free only to "Add to their portfolio" since either way they are preparing for a career that they are not qualified for.  They are putting the career ahead of the abilities, or the career ahead of the training if you prefer.  Regardless, they are preparing to charge a fee for a service they cannot provide and to me THAT IS WRONG regardless of how it is spelled out.


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## IByte (Dec 15, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> Many of us have no problem sharing our knowledge... with people that admit to being noobs, and want to learn.
> 
> Some of us strongly dislike sharing knowledge with supposed "PROS" that charge money for poor quality images, and ask silly, BEGINNER questions here... like how to do their next shoot, that they are charging for, but don't have a clue how to shoot it. Are we in any way obligated to help them? NO! The real question is should they be charging people for learning how to shoot? Is that ethical? Why should we help them get paid, when we don't get paid?
> 
> ...



True and there is nothing wrong with getting paid for you skill and knowledge. But a person asking a few general questions and the pro having a **** fit total douche regardless of the field.


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## cgipson1 (Dec 15, 2012)

IByte said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> > Many of us have no problem sharing our knowledge... with people that admit to being noobs, and want to learn.
> ...



It is GOOD that I am not a PRO then... I no longer charge for my work... don't do any paid work anymore. Is that a loophole?  lol! 

( I think it was the sheer NUMBERS of these wanna-be pro's and the massive stupidity of just a select few that made me so cranky about it! And you have to admit.. there are VAST NUMBERS of them... unbelievably so! And some are Very Dense!)


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## shents (Dec 15, 2012)

I am a tattooist and the amount of pretentious plonkers with huuge egos that my job attract's is very similar, People get a bit of notoriety and it goes to their head, It's nice to keep it reAl, be nice, be humble.


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## SCraig (Dec 15, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> It is GOOD that I am not a PRO then... I no longer charge for my work... don't do any paid work anymore. Is that a loophole?  lol!
> 
> ( I think it was the sheer NUMBERS of these wanna-be pro's and the massive stupidity of just a select few that made me so cranky about it! And you have to admit.. there are VAST NUMBERS of them... unbelievably so! And some are Very Dense!)


What makes me so cranky about the situation is that I've worked at engineering companies for 40+ years.  I've seen literally dozens of kids spend 4 years in college getting a BS degree and then 4 years of internship just so they can then take a state examination (most of them multiple times because it is a killer exam) simply to be able to call themselves a professional.  Then I see these pretentious "People" who barely know which end of a camera to look through waltz in here and proclaim to be a professional.  Yeah, it makes me cranky and it turns me into a snob.  So be it.

I'll help anyone in the world as long as they are willing to recognize their limitations and are willing to admit that a month or two (or 6 or 12) with a camera does not make them anywhere NEAR being a professional photographer, that a few months doesn't even put them in a position to even know what they don't yet know.  But when they come in here in January spouting how they got their first camera for Christmas and are now ready to "Go Pro" then they are on their own as far as I'm concerned.  So, yeah, I'm a snob and admit it.


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## usayit (Dec 15, 2012)

IMO, professionals that deal in the arts have to have some sort of ego driven snob-appeal in order to succeed.  Its part of the product that they are selling.


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## shents (Dec 15, 2012)

Drive and passion I agree, People can be successful, driven and talented with out being pompous pretencious prats  Some time that is an excuse for bad attitude


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## unpopular (Dec 15, 2012)

I often feel that I am called an "art snob" because I know a lot about contemporary art, and I don't hesitate to discuss the historical and theoretical context of artworks, my own and others. Art is something I've spend a lot of time studying and thinking about, both formally and in my own time. 

I think that sometimes people get a bit intimidated by these discussions, and it's easier to just write people off as elitist or pretentious than to try to understand what's being discussed and their position about art.


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## rexbobcat (Dec 15, 2012)

usayit said:


> IMO, professionals that deal in the arts have to have some sort of ego driven snob-appeal in order to succeed.  Its part of the product that they are selling.



I read a study a few months back about how successful artists tend to have HUGE egos, but at the same time don't hold malice against other artists.

Basically "successful" artists have big, egotistical heads but don't get jealous and talk down to and about others.


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## bunny99123 (Dec 15, 2012)

SCraig said:
			
		

> Pretty much sums it up for me.  I would only add include those that claim they are doing it for free only to "Add to their portfolio" since either way they are preparing for a career that they are not qualified for.  They are putting the career ahead of the abilities, or the career ahead of the training if you prefer.  Regardless, they are preparing to charge a fee for a service they cannot provide and to me THAT IS WRONG regardless of how it is spelled out.



I am on the fence on this one! Even as a beginner photographer I can shoot some good shots, and I have charged for some sessions, although not often. Most are free. . I am honest with my abilities and anyone I shoot is aware of it free or paying. 

I agree, that there people who buy a camera and within a month is advertising. I don't think there business will thrive.

At what point, does it become clear when to be a charging photographer? Not everyone is the same. Some people learn quickly and others do not.


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## Brandon Hill (Dec 15, 2012)

Interesting thread. My take - 

I've been making a living as a commercial photographer for a few years and have never been awarded a job because of being snobby, it's typically the opposite that results in true success in this field.  Every photographer who's work I admire happens to have reputations for being incredibly friendly. I don't think that's a coincidence.  It's a people-business so I wonder that if the key snobs are the armatures held up on their insecurity and being gear heads.  

Which brings up a theory I have that each time you purchase professional gear, there's a little lie that can creep into the ego part of your brain that you're better than you really are. It can/should be stifled of course with humility.  It's a theory, but that kind of tendancy can cause photographers to buy more and more gear which can distract from truly working on their craft and art.


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## Brandon Hill (Dec 15, 2012)

usayit said:


> IMO, professionals that deal in the arts have to have some sort of ego driven snob-appeal in order to succeed.  Its part of the product that they are selling.


 really?  all professionals in the arts?  Haha, I have never had a client tell "more ego please, it will help with your image and we'll keep hiring you".  I think I see what you mean though, but ego-centric personalities may have a niche in very specific creative fields.  Not sure which ones though so perhaps you're imagining something I'm not.


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## unpopular (Dec 15, 2012)

photographers with "clients" aren't really artists... duh.


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## SCraig (Dec 15, 2012)

bunny99123 said:


> SCraig said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


As you wish, however I was simply stating my position and there is no ambiguity in my mind whatsoever.

Unless a person has the equipment, knowledge, and capabilities to walk into ANY situation under ANY conditions and provide the professional quality photographs that they have contracted to provide with no excuses, no retakes, no nonsense then they have no right to claim to be a professional photographer nor do they have the right to charge for professional services.  If they do not have a registered business with all required tax ID's, business licenses, insurance, and so forth then they have no right to claim to be a professional photographer nor do they have the right to charge for professional services.  It truly is that simple.


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## John27 (Dec 15, 2012)

Naricissism (as a personality trait, not to be confused with Narcissistic Personality Disorder, which is a chronic condition that limits a persons ability to function in society) is a common thread among nearly every successful business person, C level executive, and world leader.  Plainly, if they don't think what they've got is the best anyone has ever had, they won't be able to convince you either.  It makes sense that a professional, in order to succeed, needs to have an ego.  Doesn't make them any easier to deal with though.



cgipson1 said:


> Many of us have no problem sharing our knowledge... with people that admit to being noobs, and want to learn.
> 
> Some of us strongly dislike sharing knowledge with supposed "PROS" that charge money for poor quality images, and ask silly, BEGINNER questions here... like how to do their next shoot, that they are charging for, but don't have a clue how to shoot it. Are we in any way obligated to help them? NO! The real question is should they be charging people for learning how to shoot? Is that ethical? Why should we help them get paid, when we don't get paid?
> 
> ...



No, it's not.  As I am not a professional, I don't have 'professional' interactions on the forum.  I'm just a hobby photographer looking to better my images.  I have a very rewarding career that I am in love with that I will retire from at a very old age, it's my calling, and I have no desire to be a pro photographer.  I do free stuff now and again for family or for church, but, that's free stuff.

Unfortunately though, though it's been in the minority, I've encountered some snobs on this forum.  I'll post a picture for C&C, and I ALWAYS ask "How could I make it better?"  I can tell a difference between what the experienced folks post, and what I post.  My stuff is mediocre, but I'm learning.  I'll post it, I'll get some great C&C, and I'll also have a few comments thrown in there like "Why?" or "I can't believe you even posted that".  I mean, who does that help?  What's the point?  Why waste my time and yours (speaking to the snobs, not you, you've been helpful in my posts in the past!) by posting a pointless comment meant only to belittle?

But as I said, that is a serious minority.  For every 5 or 6 good comments, I might get 1 silly 'My poop doesn't stink!' comment.  Most of it is good, but, occasionally, it's annoying.  Some pride themselves on 'not holding back' and are a tad snobby, but it's mixed in with critiques and 'how to do it next times', and I welcome those GREATLY.  I don't want a pat on the back, that's a waste of time.  I also don't want to be flamed, that's also a waste of time.  If I post a picture, it's because I want those gracious enough to spare me some of their time and expertise to tell me how I could improve upon it.  In addition to books, articles, YouTube videos, TPF has really helped me in a lot of ways as an amateur photographer!

I have asked questions for my wife, who wants to do some real-estate shoots and stuff (she works in real estate) for pay, and folks were pretty helpful there.  In fact, ironically, I got more compliments in that thread, I think, than anywhere else.  Mostly because, I'm familiar with the business world, we're talking about 6-12 months from now (or more) and I FIRMLY believe in getting insured, having an ATTORNEY (not google) write up contracts (ESPECIALLY when dealing with the commercial market), and paying taxes.

As far as the cheap photos go?  Well, I don't know anything about that.  I'm not in a position to tell someone their pictures look bad, though it doesn't take much to tell the difference between pro and crap. (Though sometimes I think 'Oh wow, that looks great!' then I see a flood of CnC with what's wrong! lol).  I'm also not against competition, including delivering a quality product at a lower price.  BUT, when it's done through unethical or illegal means (such as not paying taxes, not being insured, etc.) I'm against it.  It's not fair to compete with career photographers when you aren't really invested in it, have no insurance, pay no taxes, etc. etc.  These other folks who are risking alot to do this for a living, are doing it the right way and cannot compete with you, because your overhead is synthetically low due to, frankly, breaking the law!  So I AM with you on that.

But, to make a long story short, no, I wasn't referring to the issue of pro photogs, I was referring to the issue (that is RARE, and I really have to emphasize that, TPF is great and I appreciate everything you folks have done to help me out!) of people who come into a C&C thread and do nothing but leave a nasty comment, with NO help, NO input, nothing.  Just a mean remark.  It's pointless, and it's a waste of time.  Just don't post!

Anyway, off the soapbox I go, who wants it next?


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## cgipson1 (Dec 15, 2012)

John27 said:


> Naricissism (as a personality trait, not to be confused with Narcissistic Personality Disorder, which is a chronic condition that limits a persons ability to function in society) is a common thread among nearly every successful business person, C level executive, and world leader.  Plainly, if they don't think what they've got is the best anyone has ever had, they won't be able to convince you either.  It makes sense that a professional, in order to succeed, needs to have an ego.  Doesn't make them any easier to deal with though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Gotcha! I understand what you are saying totally! Post like that are almost as bad as the posts with either incorrect information, or misunderstood information. They are not helpful to the OP... more harmful even. Just wanted to make sure!


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## AgentDrex (Dec 15, 2012)

You cannot out-snob me.  I shoot with old glass on a digital camera.  Therefore, I am the best.  Or is that a definition of elitist?  Either way, I rule, you drool.  Carry on!


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## Brandon Hill (Dec 15, 2012)

AgentDrex said:


> You cannot out-snob me.  I shoot with old glass on a digital camera.  Therefore, I am the best.  Or is that a definition of elitist?  Either way, I rule, you drool.  Carry on!


haha.  drool.


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## John27 (Dec 15, 2012)

AgentDrex said:


> You cannot out-snob me.  I shoot with old glass on a digital camera.  Therefore, I am the best.  Or is that a definition of elitist?  Either way, I rule, you drool.  Carry on!



If a tree falls in a forest and nobody is around to hear it, does a hipster buy its album?


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## Derrel (Dec 15, 2012)

"*Pardon me, would you have any Grey Poupon?*"


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## AgentDrex (Dec 15, 2012)

I had grey poop on my shoes one time.  Same thing? No?


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## unpopular (Dec 15, 2012)

AgentDrex said:


> You cannot out-snob me.  I shoot with old glass on a digital camera.  Therefore, I am the best.  Or is that a definition of elitist?  Either way, I rule, you drool.  Carry on!



I was shooting vintage glass before it was cool to shoot vintage glass!


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## AgentDrex (Dec 15, 2012)

> If a tree falls in a forest and nobody is around to hear it, does a hipster buy its album?



The hipster knew the tree when it was just a nut.  The hipster has all of the trees albums on a mix tape the tree only made ten copies of.


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## SCraig (Dec 15, 2012)

unpopular said:


> AgentDrex said:
> 
> 
> > You cannot out-snob me.  I shoot with old glass on a digital camera.  Therefore, I am the best.  Or is that a definition of elitist?  Either way, I rule, you drool.  Carry on!
> ...


I was shooting vintage glass when it was present day glass!


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## molested_cow (Dec 15, 2012)

Wow this is a new record for me. Most likes in one single post and the furthest it has gone.
I didn't intent this to become "pro-non-pro" topic, but I guess it can be. It was just a matter of attitude, pro or not. The guy I asked about his lens was definitely not a pro. He's probably just a hobbyist with an expensive camera and an expensive gear. It was just weird that if someone asked specifically for the lens type, it will show that the person knows something about photography. Or may be he was all like "my lens is too good for you". After all, I was just using a point and shoot. It was just not worth my time to break out my D700 with 105mmVR. Yes that's my own snob moment right there!

So attitude! Last week, I gave the school teachers a full two-hour lecture on attitude. More specifically, my topic was "what professional skills businesses and industries are looking at hiring a talent". It was not any sort of technical skill. It was the right attitude that will give an employer confidence that this guy is a keeper. A "keeper" meaning that when an employer looks at this guy, he can see the future of the company. An employee won't do a company any good if he is not one that is worth investing on in the long term. Companies need long term strategies in order to have a sustainable existence, and without trusting people who will grow with the company, you can't have a successful long term strategy.

So what kind of people are trust worthy? If technical skills are what employers look for, they can just buy robots that run 24/7 without getting tired or lose precision.
It's people who:
1. Humble to learn, confident to perform
2. Approachable, selfless and understand how to pick up his own roles in a team effort.
3. Bring new values to the team, helping the team to diversify its capabilities and break new grounds.
4. Ability to develop leadership and stimulate fellow team mates to new challenges.

So it's about the ability to go from learning to sharing and helping people around you to become better, so you will be in a better place. There is a big difference between confidence and snob. Someone who is confident has no fear of sharing. Snobs are ones who lack the confidence to share, because he probably has something he's guilty of in the first place.

Learners can be a snob too. I too get frustrated when someone keeps asking me questions from their own perspective. what I mean is, they keep wanting the camera to give them the result they want as opposed to learning how photography works in the first place. Therefore they keep asking questions that will never get them the answer. They question the lens. They question the camera. They question photography. They never question their own logic.


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## usayit (Dec 15, 2012)

There was EXACTLY ONE time that I used my Leica in a "snobbish" way...

(It was right here on the TPF... specifically to push Derrel's buttons)

:mrgreen:


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## Tony S (Dec 15, 2012)

OK... when the hell did my camera become the open invitation to a conversation.  If I am out with it I am busy, don't be buggin me.  :greenpbl:   lol  


When I really don't want to be stuck in a conversation with someone I just put my ear phones in... nothing is playing, but no one else knows.


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## BrianV (Dec 15, 2012)

I was using a 1936 Sonnar today...rebuilt it myself, and converted to Leica mount. If anyone wants to try this, I documented the procedure.

My hobby is converting old lenses for use on a Leica. What I really like is to make one for someone else and see the images that get made with it. More personal pride then snobbery- actually making something or fixing something. More like being a teenager again and suping up a '68 Cougar, rather than someone buying an expensive sports car.

I've been on some forums where advice is given such as "save for some real glass..." "Why get a Leica and put cheap glass on it" "I could never go back to Nikon"...What I rarely saw are the images from these people that gave credibility to the advice. I would buy the lenses that they put down just to see how good or bad it was. Most of it was pretty good. I'd post results of the premium lens along with a Jupiter, or whatever. I am vindictive.


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## cgipson1 (Dec 15, 2012)

AgentDrex said:


> I had grey poop on my shoes one time.  Same thing? No?



Did you use it to set your WB?


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## John27 (Dec 16, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> AgentDrex said:
> 
> 
> > I had grey poop on my shoes one time.  Same thing? No?
> ...



Only 18% Grey Poupon.  Anything else just won't work.


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## unpopular (Dec 16, 2012)

SCraig said:


> unpopular said:
> 
> 
> > AgentDrex said:
> ...



I think that just makes you old.


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## boborone (Dec 16, 2012)

I don't know the correlation, but I see a huge difference between the days of film and the times of now with digital. Anybody who was part of a linux group back in the day knows the kind of open source spirit that used to come along with film. Everyone sharing ideas and what they did to make such and such. Nowadays, you can't talk to anybody about digital without getting looked down on. Just my experience. I used to shoot tons with film, left the field for about 10 years, now I'm back and I see a huge difference with people. I joined a couple of local groups and it's nice with them. 

To anyone who is having trouble finding cool people to talk to irl about photography, join a local meetup group and have fun with them. We have projects, idea talks, and work shops. From all levels, pro to budders with a p&s. I mean hell, it's hard not to see tons of snobbyness on the forums online. Alot of the people on here and other places do nothing but make wise cracks and talk down to people wanting to get in photography. I love when I check in every couple of days to see if any new threads perk my interest and you see the "pros" here trash talking the new guys all day. You'd think they'd be out taking pics, but I guess being sarcastic online is more important.

Honestly, the worst place to talk about photography online is a place with other photographers. I'm a member of phone hacking site and we have a photog club on there. Anyone can join, shoot with what you have, and enter the contests every month. It's like the clubs I'm in, people taking time out of their day to share with others what they enjoy. And about a third of em are professionals, truly pro. Wherein they make most of their income from taking pics. Just guys sharing what they do. It's like the old days in film.

idk, just my 2 cents
Digital has ruined sharing, and online has ruined being helpful.


Edit
Just went through the forums checking out the new threads posted. And yep, you can see a difference here in the attitudes of people in digital and film.


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## AgentDrex (Dec 16, 2012)

> I love when I check in every couple of days to see if any new threads  perk my interest and you see the "pros" here trash talking the new guys  all day. You'd think they'd be out taking pics, but I guess being  sarcastic online is more important.



I've been on almost everyday lately and haven't seen much of that.  What threads are you looking in?  I must be missing something.


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## shents (Dec 16, 2012)

AgentDrex said:


> > I love when I check in every couple of days to see if any new threads  perk my interest and you see the "pros" here trash talking the new guys  all day. You'd think they'd be out taking pics, but I guess being  sarcastic online is more important.
> 
> 
> 
> I've been on almost everyday lately and haven't seen much of that.  What threads are you looking in?  I must be missing something.



I think a lot of that takes place on private message, Apart from that this site is really helpful, and inspiring,  and I have been given some great advice, But hey I am a newbie to the site and to camera's, my opinion means NATTIN!  hahaa


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## AgentDrex (Dec 16, 2012)

I disagree, you may think your opinion means nothing but that is not true.  Perhaps you see a photo that you like because of the color, lighting, subject, etc.  You may not have a heavy grasp on the technical end but your observations of a photo and those things you like about it are certainly helpful.  We need critiques of all types to mature in this field.  From the advice about ways to improve the technical aspects of a photo to observations of things that may have worked.

I don't believe boborone was commenting about pros trash-talking new people through privates messages.  First, that would difficult considering they're private messages.  Second, he clearly mentions threads.  I haven't seen trash-talking much.  I agree with the sarcasm though considering I am one of the culprits.


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## SCraig (Dec 16, 2012)

unpopular said:


> I think that just makes you old.


No, it makes ME vintage!


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## rexbobcat (Dec 16, 2012)

boborone said:
			
		

> I don't know the correlation, but I see a huge difference between the days of film and the times of now with digital. Anybody who was part of a linux group back in the day knows the kind of open source spirit that used to come along with film. Everyone sharing ideas and what they did to make such and such. Nowadays, you can't talk to anybody about digital without getting looked down on. Just my experience. I used to shoot tons with film, left the field for about 10 years, now I'm back and I see a huge difference with people. I joined a couple of local groups and it's nice with them.
> 
> To anyone who is having trouble finding cool people to talk to irl about photography, join a local meetup group and have fun with them. We have projects, idea talks, and work shops. From all levels, pro to budders with a p&s. I mean hell, it's hard not to see tons of snobbyness on the forums online. Alot of the people on here and other places do nothing but make wise cracks and talk down to people wanting to get in photography. I love when I check in every couple of days to see if any new threads perk my interest and you see the "pros" here trash talking the new guys all day. You'd think they'd be out taking pics, but I guess being sarcastic online is more important.
> 
> ...



People are just as snobbish in reality as they are in virtuality. That is why I don't particularly like the photographers in my region. I mean, I'd be perfectly fine with their snobbishness if they were really good. But at best most are mediocre in my eyes and don't deserve their attitude.


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## rexbobcat (Dec 16, 2012)

SCraig said:
			
		

> No, it makes ME vintage!



Hipster.


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## shents (Dec 16, 2012)

AgentDrex said:


> I disagree, you may think your opinion means nothing but that is not true.  Perhaps you see a photo that you like because of the color, lighting, subject, etc.  You may not have a heavy grasp on the technical end but your observations of a photo and those things you like about it are certainly helpful.  We need critiques of all types to mature in this field.  From the advice about ways to improve the technical aspects of a photo to observations of things that may have worked.
> 
> I don't believe boborone was commenting about pros trash-talking new people through privates messages.  First, that would difficult considering they're private messages.  Second, he clearly mentions threads.  I haven't seen trash-talking much.  I agree with the sarcasm though considering I am one of the culprits.




Haha I am hoping my eye for detail, art and passion for travel will muster some great shot's, I can't wait to get them critiqued when I get back from china by you talented buggers,  there will be no thrill's technically, but it will be great to see how I could have made them better, and improve, Or you can simply say YOU CAN NOT POLISH A TURD!  Haha


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## Tee (Dec 16, 2012)

boborone- please cite 5 recent threads of so-called trash talking.


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## cgipson1 (Dec 16, 2012)

Tee said:


> boborone- please cite 5 recent threads of so-called trash talking.



Wanna bet he pulls up my comments?


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## unpopular (Dec 16, 2012)

> People are just as snobbish in reality as they are in virtuality. That is why I don't particularly like the photographers in my region. I mean, I'd be perfectly fine with their snobbishness if they were really good. But at best most are mediocre in my eyes and don't deserve their attitude.



The Internet allows the inner snob in us to emerge. As I've said, I think everyone is snobby, it's a matter of inhibition.


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## AgentDrex (Dec 16, 2012)

Shent called us buggers..haha...who has been buggering who around here, huh??  It HAS been tough to sit down as of late.  I figured it's because I just received two lenses and have been up and using them.  Turns out one of you snobbish pricks has decided to ride my tube to brown town.


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## John27 (Dec 16, 2012)

I don't think there are threads where people are bashing (at least, I haven't experienced that).  But there are_ individuals_ who are less than helpful.

I think the film vs Digital observation is a good one.  For one, with digital SLR cameras being cheaper, cameras being so good that my iPhone takes substantially better pictures than a point and shoot camera from a few years ago (one photo magazine called the 4S the best point and shoot camera on the market.  Note:  Not cameraphone, point and shoot camera), and being super easy and cheap to operate, competition in the professional realm is much stronger.  In the days of film, it's a buck a shot (when you figure in developing.)  I'm not afraid to admit my T1i has over 15,000 shutter cycles on it at last check.  I bought it in 2009.  There is NO WAY I would be able to afford to shoot that many film exposures.  So it's easy for digital shooters to develop experience very quickly.  There is a difference in quality too.  NOW, I use my meter and histogram, set up my shot, and re-shooting something becomes rarer and rarer.  But when I started?  I just played around until it looked good. I'd have crashed and burned doing that on film.  The result, is film shooters are often more accurate and technically correct, but are up against spray-and-pray digital shooters who get experience quickly and cheaply, and then run off into the pro world without any real knowledge, and often operating illegally.

It's all been said before, in this thread even, but the point is, I think THAT is the difference between film and digital shooters.  Also, full-time working professionals no longer use film.  Yes, yes, some artist somewhere probably does, and perhaps someone takes along an old medium format camera to weddings, but 99% of your working full time pro's are shooting pro level DSLR bodies.  So, when you are in the film forums, you aren't butting up against professionals, it's just a hobby.  Many professionals may still shoot film, but they are happy to share their FILM knowledge in those forums, because it won't come back to bite them with a $50 craigslist wedding photographer.


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## Mully (Dec 16, 2012)

Well now that all the snob types have been identified it is business as usual. "I don't care what you think" LOL


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## unpopular (Dec 16, 2012)

Was there ever any question who we were?


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## rexbobcat (Dec 16, 2012)

Mully said:
			
		

> Well now that all the snob types have been identified it is business as usual. "I don't care what you think" LOL



Do u gurllll.

Dont listen to dem haters. Dey jus jelous.


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## terri (Dec 16, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> Tee said:
> 
> 
> > boborone- please cite 5 recent threads of so-called trash talking.
> ...


Why not, since you're usually involved.    :lmao:   

And no one needs to spend any time pulling up threads with trash-talking.  I can name a couple from the last 24 hours, but why bother?  This is how threads get derailed.      Leave it alone.


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## boborone (Dec 16, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> Tee said:
> 
> 
> > boborone- please cite 5 recent threads of so-called trash talking.
> ...



Huh?

And I guess it's more trash talking and being sarcastic to valid inquiries when you could just point the guy to the right direction.


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## cgipson1 (Dec 16, 2012)

boborone said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> > Tee said:
> ...



I am not obligated to do so, am i? I am not paid! I don't win trophies! I don't get gift certificates! 

I help who I choose to help.. and they are normally very happy with that "help".

The ones I am usually rude to, snarky to, and sarcastic to... are the "bought a camera last week, going PRO today" types... hopefully you don't fit in that category!


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## cgipson1 (Dec 16, 2012)

terri said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> > Tee said:
> ...



Involved? Yes.. and not always the only one! Just sometimes the most vocal! Funny.. I get a lot of private mail saying people agree with my "tudes"... and giving my likes for it. Wonder why that is?


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## shents (Dec 16, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> boborone said:
> 
> 
> > cgipson1 said:
> ...




I certainly don't! Remind me not to ask you AAAANYTHING! HA


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## Mully (Dec 16, 2012)

rexbobcat said:


> Mully said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You thought i was a GURL LOL


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## cgipson1 (Dec 16, 2012)

shents said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> > boborone said:
> ...



Sure! Got any good "tat" pics?  :greenpbl:


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## terri (Dec 16, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> terri said:
> 
> 
> > cgipson1 said:
> ...


Those aren't the only PM's you get.     Wonder why _that _is?


I think this thread's run it's course, guys.


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