# Help!  Just Contacted by an Ad Agency Who Wants to Purchse My Photos!



## astrostu (Jun 15, 2007)

As the subject says, I was just contacted by a woman who works for an ad agency who wants to know if they can buy my photos:



> I work for an advertising agency and we are looking for some beautiful moon images for an ad that we are working on. Do you ever sell your images for commercial purposes? We are looking for phases of the moon ending in something like the 6% waning moon image.
> 
> Any information would be greatly appreciated.



So, I assume I have the images they want, otherwise they wouldn't've contacted me.  And I have them in sufficient resolution for any ad (original images are 5760x5760 px, which is 80" at 72 dpi or 19" at 300 dpi).  And I'm interested in finally getting a little cash back from this hobby.  So the answer is yes to this woman, that's not the issue.

The issue is that I haven't a clue how to go about this without being $crewed over.  So I have no idea what's supposed to go into a contract (is there supposed to be a contract?), how much I should charge (or if they make an offer and I'm supposed to say yes or no), and all that other stuff I haven't thought of.

So, as the lady said, any information would be greatly appreciated!!


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## EOS_JD (Jun 15, 2007)

Didn't you post this exact same thread some time ago on another forum?  i recognise the text and the web site..........


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## marcand76 (Jun 15, 2007)

Try searching for a similar photo of the moon on the internet & see what you can find. Usually the big stock libraries will come up first on your search results & by looking at what they have to offer in the way of similar photos it gives you an idea what you are competing against in terms of quality & cost.

Some of the rights-managed libraries have online stock photo price calculators where you can calculate the rate for their images based on the usage. This will give you an idea on what to charge.

I ask for payment first & when I have received it then send the image via FTP.


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## astrostu (Jun 15, 2007)

EOS_JD said:


> Didn't you post this exact same thread some time ago on another forum?  i recognise the text and the web site..........



No.  That was a woman in Texas who wanted three photos for a birthday present for someone.  Personal use, and just prints.  This is commercial.

Or there was one who wanted me to collaborate with her on a calendar, it was someone who couldn't buy the images up-front but wanted to do profit-sharing.

This is one that I've never come across before where it's an actual ad agency who wants to just purchase the photo up-front to use in an ad to sell a product.


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## EOS_JD (Jun 15, 2007)

Charge lots..... ask them what they're offering


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## craig (Jun 16, 2007)

You will need to consider the how the images will be used. If they will be used in an ad that will run in a subway station then we are talking thousands of dollars. If it is one time in blah blah magazine then that may be in the hundreds of dollars. Also figure out if they are buying the rights to the shots or if it is one time usage. 

Love & Bass


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## astrostu (Jun 16, 2007)

Alright, I e-mailed the woman back asking a lot of questions (along the lines of what Craig said and some of my own).  The reply was:



> We are working on an ad for a product from Elizabeth Arden called "Prevage Night Cream". ... We already have the big moon image but were looking to you for the moon phases on the right side of the page. (I think we might have rotated these moons to fit into our design.)
> 
> The usage we would like to buy is:
> 
> ...



So the ad looks kinda neat (I'm not including it since it's probably intellectual property, etc.).  It's effectively a woman on the left with a large crescent moon near her, which is what I assume is the "big" moon image that was mentioned.  Then on the other side are three phases, around a 30%, 15%, and 5% crescent that turns into the product.

So I believe that those are the "three" images that they have the budget of $2k for that they would want to buy from me.  So, I'm in the following situation now:

(1)  To me, it's a minor part of the ad, but it's a key part of the overall concept.  I know nothing about advertising campaigns, but it seems like for such a major industry (cosmetics) and the requested distribution, that its budget would be able to afford more than $2k for the moon images.

(2)  On the other hand, I've never sold anything for commercial purposes, and being a "starving grad student", $2k sounds VERY NICE.  If I don't go with it, I still have the images and no money.  If I do go with it without negotiating a higher compensation, I just send them the images that I already have and get a $2k check.  It's no extra work on my part other than getting the images to them, and so I'm quite tempted to just say "yes" and be happy with the initial offer.

What do you guys think?  Should I be asking for significantly more, or should I take the offer and run?  Or am I missing something?


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## Seefutlung (Jun 16, 2007)

Dude, this is found money.  As found money I'd charge what I think the photos are worth ... or charge whatever makes you happy.  I know most everybody will scream that I'm stupid ...  but to me it's not about you getting screwed ... it's all about you being satisfied.  It doesn't matter what they will/can pay ... what matters is your satisfaction (it's not like you have a lock on Moon shots.)
1) I'd be honored that my shots were chosen;
2) Try to get enough to get a piece of extra/needed kit (like ... say a MKIII);
3) Try for some bragging rights (like a tiny photo credit ... which will never happen ... but can be used as a bargaining chip); and
4) Don't be so 'fraid of getting screwed that you lose the deal.

If it was I following my own advise I'd be 100% transparent.  Ma'am, I'm not a professional photog but a starving graduate student.  I could sure use that money ... but what I need is a MK III, which is $4,000 ... so that is really what I'd like ... in return I will grant you unlimited use my images for all time ... just as long as somewhere on the ad you toss in a photo credit for my images ... 

Anyway, I'm not in your shoes ... but that would be my approach ... I have always found honesty and transparency to work more often in one's favor than not.

Gary


PS- Remember that time is money to the ad company.  To seek out another photog with moon images will take time and time = $.    But they may already have a dozen or so photogs they are contacting  with similar images waiting for one to bite.  There is a thin line between getting a little more money and blowing the deal.
G

PSPS- Good Luck
G


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## astrostu (Jun 17, 2007)

I took Gary's advice sort of.  I e-mailed the woman back saying that I was interested but that I wanted to see a contract first.  So I expect to hear back Monday.

In the mean time, my Aunt (a graphic designer in the ad biz) is going to ask around and see what her colleagues think.  Her initial reaction was that the $2000 seems to be a standard stock photo price.  But then when I told her that it was for an Elizabeth Arden campaign, and when I looked at this company's client list (which includes Saturn, Frito-Lay, Hagen-Daz, Budweiser, and a lot of others), she said that I should probably ask for way more.  But she'll know more tomorrow.  The ad firm is apparently pretty highly regarded:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodby_Silverstein_&_Partners

So I'm thinking that if my Aunt comes back and says I should be asking for $5k, I'll just go with $2k.  But if she says I should be getting more like $10k, then I'll e-mail the woman back and explain what my Aunt said (along the lines of, "I have a relative in the business and she explained ot me that for this type of campaign for this type of client, one would normally receive around $10k.  I don't want to gauge you, so I would like to know if you're willing to go to around $4k or $5k?").

The trick will be to not go too high and have them go elsewhere.  I'm also thinking, and my Aunt agreed, that it could be the "$2000 budget" is more them thinking, "This is what we'll tell him so that if he comes back and wants more, we have some negotiating room."

Thus begins the delicate waltz!


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## Seefutlung (Jun 17, 2007)

^5


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## astrostu (Jun 17, 2007)

Seefutlung said:


> ^5



Huh?


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## Seefutlung (Jun 17, 2007)

lol that's a high five


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## craig (Jun 17, 2007)

I would take what they are offering. Getting your foot in the door is valuable. It is very important that you form a good relationship with these folks. If you start negotiating and lose the bid they will never consider you again. 

Love & Bass


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## astrostu (Jun 18, 2007)

So, I've looked at some stock photo sites.  For the approximate same distribution rights for a single image, places are charging upwards of $12,000.  My Aunt spoke with her boss and her bosses boss, and they all theink I'm being low-balled.

So I've decided to do the following:  I"m going to call the woman tomorrow.  I'll start up the conversation by asking for clarification on which moon images she wants (since she said waning phases but from the mock-up it looks like she wants waxing).  Then I'll effectively say, "I've also been doing some research on commercial photography use, including talking with a relative of mine who's an art director in the New York City area.  Based upon your intended effectively unlimited print and web media, world-wide distribution, and high-profile client, I believe the $2000 figure is a little low.  Would you be willing to come up in your offer?"

I see three possible outcomes:  (1) "Yes." At which point I think huzzah and go for what she offers.  (2) "What were you thinking?" At which point I'll say, "somewhere around $3-4 thousand, possibly up to $5" and then go with what she offers.  (3) "No." At which point I'll immediately jump in and say, "Alright, I'm still very interested in having my photography used for this campaign and I'll go with the $2000."

Via the phone, I can actually deal with #3 and she's MUCH less likely to say, "screw you, we'll find someone else."  As opposed to e-mail, where she could just go off and 3 hours later say "nevermind, we found someone else willing to go with our initial offer."  I see my chances of losing in this situation as near-zero, and chances of gaining quite increased.

The only issue is that my paranoia is setting in since she said she'd get back to me today (Monday) with a contract, but I haven't heard from her.  Which is another reason why I want to call her tomorrow ... open with asking which images she wanted to verify that they're still interested.


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## Seefutlung (Jun 18, 2007)

Sounds like a pretty good plan to me.  There is a problem if she states that she isn't authorized to negotiate money ... and that she has to talk it over with so-n-so and get back to you.  Which puts it in the same category as an email as far as leaving you hanging ... I just don't think they'll screw around for a couple of thou ... just sign you up and it's over ... 

Gary


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## astrostu (Jun 20, 2007)

So she said that normally she'd be able to scrounge up a few more pennies, but that she really does have a budget for this and didn't realize that she would be needing to buy so many images.  So I just said alright and went with the offer.

Which changed to 4 images for $3000.  So I'm buying that lens off my wish-list:  Canon 35 mm f/1.4L.


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## kaboom (Jun 21, 2007)

how'd she find your pictures?
i know its a far fetched dream, but it'd be cool if something similar happened to me.
did they just come across your website? or did you send them to some agency?


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## astrostu (Jun 21, 2007)

kaboom said:


> how'd she find your pictures?
> i know its a far fetched dream, but it'd be cool if something similar happened to me.
> did they just come across your website? or did you send them to some agency?



I actually remembered to ask.  She said that she did a Google image search for moon phases and looked through all the results (nice to know that high-paid graphic designers can spend time searching the web while at work).  When I did a Google image search for "moon phases" (without the quotes), mine comes up on the bottom of the second page.  And I guess since I supply reasonably high-resolution images on my site by default, without watermarks, she figured a quick (2-sentence) e-mail to me would be worth it.

She said it was lucky for both of us that she found it, which I guess implies that she thinks she was doing me a favor ... which she was, but I don't like to think that she thinks I think that. :hug::


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## darich (Jun 21, 2007)

astrostu said:


> So she said that normally she'd be able to scrounge up a few more pennies, but that she really does have a budget for this and didn't realize that she would be needing to buy so many images.  So I just said alright and went with the offer.
> 
> Which changed to 4 images for $3000.  So I'm buying that lens off my wish-list:  Canon 35 mm f/1.4L.



Absolutely brilliant...always good to hear of a sale!

I had one ages ago - german picture agency found my image of San Francisco at night and emailed to ask if they could use it for a calendar in Germany. I accepted their offer of 125Euros (about £85). It had a limited run of only 5000 or so so i figured the price was ok and not worth haggling over.

Well done again on a sale.
:hail::hail:


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## OttawaPhotog (Jun 21, 2007)

Congrats on your sale!  Definitely worth while especially for the purchase of a nice lens!


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## craig (Jun 21, 2007)

Yeah man! Big up on the sale. 

Love & Bass


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