# First night on the Job



## Stibbs (Feb 18, 2013)

Hi Guys, 
Extremely new to photography, managed to get work at a small nightclub. I didnt have much of an idea of what settings to use and ****, so i just threw myself in the deep end and winged it! I had heaps of fun!! Soo good meeting people and experimenting with creativity and the like..

Anyway, heres just a few snaps from Thursday...

1, Dancefloor shot, 
2, General room shot, showing what i have to work with
3, Standard couple shot, no laser/smoke interference


Just looking for feedback on what was my first night out, loved it!
Cheers Guys

View attachment 36483View attachment 36484View attachment 36485


----------



## o hey tyler (Feb 18, 2013)

How new are you to photography?


----------



## Stibbs (Feb 18, 2013)

I got the Camera November last Year, I've used pretty much the clickwheel settings up until last thursday at the club haha


----------



## o hey tyler (Feb 18, 2013)

Forgive my bluntness...
But, you're new to photography.
You've had your camera since November. 
You have just now started using a mode other than auto. 
...and you're taking paying gigs? 

Why? 

You have limited skill, knowledge, and equipment at this point. You should take the time to learn photography prior to trying to monetize it. I know this sounds rude, but there was another night club photographer in a similar boat recently on here. 

There's much more to photography than simply pointing a camera and clicking a shutter. There's composition, exposure, and proper technique. These are things that simply cannot be learned overnight.

With that being said, I am not trying to discourage you from shooting. Not at all. But take time to learn before "jumping in." It's unfair to who's handing you money.


----------



## Stibbs (Feb 18, 2013)

Why you ask?
Because that's how I like to learn..
I understand I'm very new, I understand I'm not going to learn over night..
But I am researching heavily and I enjoy it

However, 
One,.. I'm not asking to be paid.
Two,.. The club is small, out of city etc.. and,
Three,.. The manager understands that I don't have years of experience.

I think that justify's my reason but I do understand where your coming from and I respect that.


----------



## manaheim (Feb 18, 2013)

Stibbs... are you working at the club and taking pictures because you're there, or were you hired to take pictures at the club?  It wasn't clear to me.  I assumed the former.


----------



## Stibbs (Feb 18, 2013)

I contacted the manager, asking if they needed a photographer for certain nights, so yes I am solely working there as a photographer...


----------



## manaheim (Feb 18, 2013)

Ah.

Well, then, you're likely going to be whomped on a bit.  Though I could have sworn Tyler left in a huff some months back.  He seems to have come back entirely to whomp on people.

Anyway... I've seen worse shots, really.  From a high level, I'd say play as much as you can with the lights, watch your distractions (that crap on the left there in that third shot isn't helping you any).

Beyond that I can't offer you too much advice.  I've done very little time in clubs.


----------



## o hey tyler (Feb 18, 2013)

manaheim said:


> Ah.
> 
> Well, then, you're likely going to be whomped on a bit.  Though I could have sworn Tyler left in a huff some months back.  He seems to have come back entirely to whomp on people.
> 
> ...



Grow up, Chris. I did no "womping." I was gentle compared to some of the stuff you post. If you think people should get paid for work without proper knowledge and training, that's your own deal. I'm trying to help this guy avoid a lawsuit later in his photographic career. I could have said much, much worse.


----------



## Stibbs (Feb 18, 2013)

Well that's why I'm here, partly to gain knowledge and understanding, here tips from other members and get to know people and see other stuff that's out there..

Also, those shots have not been post-processed at all, just straight from the camera...

cheers.


----------



## o hey tyler (Feb 18, 2013)

What I would suggest you do, OP... Have the owner trade in services if you want to accept payment of some type. IMO it's less likely to make anyone upset if you can't fully deliver. Generally owners of businesses are more willing to trade drinks for photos or something of that sort. That way you get to learn, and money isn't directly exchanging hands until you've got a better setup/knowledge to adequately shoot nightclub photography.


----------



## Stibbs (Feb 18, 2013)

He is more than happy to do that currently and I do feel I'm not in a position to ask for any payment just yet. I am happy to just cruise around and learn things as I go which is why i approached that particular club..


----------



## o hey tyler (Feb 18, 2013)

Stibbs said:


> He is more than happy to do that currently and I do feel I'm not in a position to ask for any payment just yet. I am happy to just cruise around and learn things as I go which is why i approached that particular club..



:thumbup: 

I approve of your attitude fine sir! Keep shooting and enjoy!


----------



## Stibbs (Feb 18, 2013)

o hey tyler said:


> :thumbup:
> 
> I approve of your attitude fine sir! Keep shooting and enjoy!



Well that's more of the responses I'm after haha


----------



## pgriz (Feb 18, 2013)

A few pointers - direct flash, which is what you used, really brings out the worse in people (appearance-wise).  If they have any sweat on their faces, that tends to reflect the light, and it shows up as glare - not flattering.  There are ways around that, but you need to shoot with some kind of bracket and light modifier to make the flash more "open" and to get it away from the main axis of the lens.

#1 - does show the "party" atmosphere.  

#2 - other showing a bunch of people (and not too clearly), there is too much stuff at the periphery of the image.  You need to think about what you want the image to convey - is it "ambiance", or lots of people, or the lights, or...  and depending on what you decide to convey, there will be different ways to accomplish that.

#3 - too much background distraction, direct flash is not flattering to the lady on the right.  If you are going to do these kinds of shots, you need a cleaner background, and much better lighting.

The comments you got from Manaheim and Tyler are really directed at your lack of knowledge of how to use the light you have in a difficult situation (a dark nightclub with irregular lighting), with equipment that may or may not be adequate to task.  You could do the learning through trial and error, but that is not the easiest way.  Look through the internet images and see which nightclub ones really look appealing - then study how the images were frames, what kind of light was used, and what made those images appealing - once you know what you want to end up with, then it will become a process of controlling all the variables that either help or hinder you from getting those results.

I think Tyler is pointing out that at this stage, there's much that you just don't know, even to the point of not being able to ask the right questions.  That is normal - we all went through that.  What is somewhat unusual is to try and make money at something you have so little knowledge of.  Photography is a craft.  Despite the advertisements that claim that (x-brand) camera will give you great pictures all the time, that's basically marketing BS.  It does take knowledge, and understanding.  And once you begin to understand how things combine to make an image, you'll also have a better idea of the gear you need to make those images effective.  Good luck.


----------



## o hey tyler (Feb 18, 2013)

+1 for the flash bracket and external flash as pgriz mentioned. Very nice combo for night clubs. There are also some very versatile brackets to be had.


----------



## manaheim (Feb 18, 2013)

o hey tyler said:


> manaheim said:
> 
> 
> > Ah.
> ...



Which would have been in line with your typical behavior around here since your triumphant return, so far be it for me to be reading between the lines a bit on your remarks.


----------



## Stibbs (Feb 18, 2013)

pgriz said:


> A few pointers - direct flash, which is what you used, really brings out the worse in people (appearance-wise).  If they have any sweat on their faces, that tends to reflect the light, and it shows up as glare - not flattering.  There are ways around that, but you need to shoot with some kind of bracket and light modifier to make the flash more "open" and to get it away from the main axis of the lens.



by getting it away from the axis of the lens do you mean 'off camera flash'? because i had the flash pointing 45* up with the little diffuser card down..
I'm looking  to get one of those Omni-boot things,

BTW I have Canon 600D
                430EX II Flash
and I used  17-55 Kit lens

Thanks for the feedback though! appreciate it...

Here's another from a different angle


----------



## manaheim (Feb 18, 2013)

Oh a DIFFUSER card... ok THAT explains it.  It didn't look quite as strong as dead-on flash, but didn't look like you had bounced it either.

When they say "off-camera", they're referring to a flash bracket that keeps the flash with you but puts it off-center by 6-10".  Doesn't seem like a ton, but it really helps.  Bouncing off the ceiling helps a lot, too, but that place looked like it had black ceilings so that was not going to work for you most likely.  A flash card is a decent idea, but you want a REALLY big one.  The more area you have the more disspersed the light will be.  You can make a nice one using that white foam-like sheet material you can get at craft stores.  Put a black one on the back for a nice backing and stick it to your flash with velcro.  If you curve it a bit it will also help the diffusion.  It makes a nice tool.

But the flash bracket would also be awesome.


----------



## pgriz (Feb 18, 2013)

Stibbs, to do reasonably nice flash photography in places such as nightclubs, you need three things:
1)  A flash bracket to hold the flash away from the camera (see something like this: Stroboframe Quick Flip 350 Bracket 310-635 B&H Photo Video)
2)  A diffuser on the flash to make the source larger and to not waste it lighting up the whole place (something like this: Lastolite Micro Apollo MkII 60 Softboxes 2214 - Vistek Canada Product Detail)
3)  A ETTL extension cable that allows the flash and camera to work using E-TTL (something like this: Amazon.com: Promaster Flash Extension Cord - Off-Camera TTL - Canon: Camera & Photo)

That will get you pretty decent light, as long as you're shooting no more than (say) 10 ft. away.  To get the maximum out of the images you take, you should also shoot in RAW (many threads on this, but essentially, it allows you much more control over your image after-the-fact), and do some post-shooting cleanup in something like Lightroom (sharpening, white balance, etc.).  Of course, you now have to learn how to use E-TTL metering, how to figure out appropriate exposure (ambient and flash are two different exposures that happen at the same time), how to select the best ISO to get maximum utility out of your rig, how to do post-processing to make the images attractive (SOOC- Straight-Out-Of-Camera doesn't do that, pos-processing provides the "zing" that many professionals deliver), and build up some arm muscles as that rig is not lightweight.


----------



## manaheim (Feb 18, 2013)

And with all that crap on your camera you'll look like RoboPhotographer and all the ladies will think you're super hawt.


----------



## pgriz (Feb 18, 2013)

... speaks the guy with the lightsaber  .

We know why you play with that thing.


----------



## Pallycow (Feb 18, 2013)

clubs/bar owners want to see their facility packed with people having fun.  Even if there is a small crowd you can shoot to make it seem like a large crowd.  When the place is packed, be sure to get that.

Focus on the people...the lights/colors.  Not trash cans.  lol

pic one could have been cool.  pic two is awful, insta-delete...it's nothing but colorful blur..and not cool blur...and a trash can.   pic 3 is about what you'd see from anyone with a cell phone.

Take some time, practice, learn composition and how to use your flash in a club environment, no idea what gear you have, but lenses are very important for club shooting.

You have a cool opportunity to come out with great things and quick local notoriety...on the same token...you have an opportunity to come out looking like any Joe with a camera as well.


----------



## manaheim (Feb 18, 2013)

pgriz said:


> ... speaks the guy with the lightsaber  .
> 
> We know why you play with that thing.



Sadly... I have one of those super fancy replica ones on the wall in my home office.


----------



## pgriz (Feb 18, 2013)

Of course.  Better than etchings for charming the sweet young things.  Oh wait.  You're married and have kids.  Let's recalibrate that.  Home defence.  That's what it's for.  Yep.  Except that you may need some lessons, as it's no coincidence that the appearance of the light saber also marked the demise of the top hat and the stash.  Those lightbeams cut through everything, don't they?!


----------



## Karloz (Feb 18, 2013)

Dont be discouraged - Keep it up- keep practicing and take comment as being constructive and you will do well !


----------



## o hey tyler (Feb 18, 2013)

manaheim said:


> o hey tyler said:
> 
> 
> > manaheim said:
> ...



Do me a favor, and don't read my remarks at all if you're going to suggest that I'm "womping" on people, when I clearly am not. 

kthx.


----------



## leeroix (Feb 18, 2013)

+1 for proper gear...I just hold the flash in my left hand and aim it as each shot dictates. - bouncing, up, aimed at the people etc... every shot is going to be different. Also, slow shutter speed with rear curtain sync on the flash. That way, you get all the tracers and motion blur but the flash freezes everyone in focus at the very end. -takes practice. Your right arm is going to get a workout handling the camera for a few hours...


----------



## Dubaiian (Feb 18, 2013)

Gotta agree with the more experienced posters here in general however, as a newbie I asked a local band (and the venue) if I could photograph them to test my skills and no payment.  Can't post you the pics as I am travelling and only have my iPhone.   However, as a learni g experience it was great.   It taught me a lot about how to fail and also how to analyse myself and my true skill level.  Where I live there is little or no chance of a law suit provided that I am not providing a service for reward.   



As the more experienced guys have said, watch that it's not a job in any aspect and learn from it.   If you become a better photographer, enjoy the experience.   


Note - I am and always will be an enthusiast as I love photography too much to add the pressure of business to something I enjoy.    Credo to the guys that do.  


P. s. I found a 135 f2 amazing for band shots


----------



## leeroix (Feb 18, 2013)

A link i posted recently showing a few typical shots.
http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/people-photography/317327-party-time.html


----------



## manaheim (Feb 18, 2013)

o hey tyler said:


> Do me a favor, and don't read my remarks at all if you're going to suggest that I'm "womping" on people, when I clearly am not.
> 
> kthx.



"Whah"


----------



## o hey tyler (Feb 18, 2013)

Well, if I wanted to deal with children, I'd hang out with my extended family. Since I don't, to the ignore list you go. 

I bet stop and shop has a sale going on for Johnson and Johnson's "no tears" baby shampoo. It sounds like you could use it.

Take care, Mr. Russo!


----------



## slow231 (Feb 18, 2013)

o hey tyler said:


> manaheim said:
> 
> 
> > Ah.
> ...



i have no idea of your history here, but acting like other photographer need your OK before taking on paid gigs is a bit much. nowhere does it seem like he misrepresented his abilities to the client, or his intention to use this as a learning experience. if he got a paying client who'll float him to learn on the job, good for him.  it's between him and his client, i don't see how he needs your or anyone else's stamp of approval to accept paying jobs.

how much club stuff do you do? most of the time they're just looking for promotional stuff, webpage, fb page, fliers, etc. just bs pictures.  if they don't already have a regular (decent) photographer, any shots are better than no shots (they can always opt to not use his stuff if it's that terrible).  A LOT of places will let you come in and shoot for free (+ drinks, admission, access, etc.) or even pay you a little.  It's not surprising at all that he could land this gig, especially if he knows ANYONE at the establishment. I take your lawsuit concern with a huge grain of salt. seems more to me like a bs hindsight justification of your initial unwarranted negativity about the OP's success at landing a gig.

as far as the CC on the OP.  i agree with the comments so far. these aren't terrible (as club shots go), but pay attention more attention to what's being included in the frame.


----------



## manaheim (Feb 18, 2013)

Lol sweet.  Tyler blocked me.  I'll take that as a compliment.


----------



## manaheim (Feb 18, 2013)

pgriz said:


> Of course.  Better than etchings for charming the sweet young things.  Oh wait.  You're married and have kids.  Let's recalibrate that.  Home defence.  That's what it's for.  Yep.  Except that you may need some lessons, as it's no coincidence that the appearance of the light saber also marked the demise of the top hat and the stash.  Those lightbeams cut through everything, don't they?!



The only thing more terrifying to a burglar than the sound of a shotgun... Is the sound of a light saber .


----------



## o hey tyler (Feb 18, 2013)

You are not aware of the sheer number of people that make posts like "Hey I got my camera last week, and have a wedding next week. What are the best settings to use?" It happens ALL THE TIME. The OP is a different case, as he cleared up and I responded to. I guess you didn't read that part. Or you did, and chose to ignore it. 

I'm not suggesting that he needs anyone's stamp of approval. But I'm also not suggesting a nurse perform surgery, a secretary should do my taxes, or a janitor teach children trigonometry. 

There are so many people that get a camera that try and monetize it ASAP. That is the WRONG way to go about things.  The OP has a good attitude and a willingness to learn. Not everyone that buys a camera and wants to make money with it agrees that knowledge, skill, and even additional equipment is required. The OP does realize that, and that's a good thing. I'm simply pointing out that there's a lot of learning to be done prior to taking money from a spectrum of clients. He is lucky to have a controlled environment to practice and hone his skills in. That's all.


----------



## manaheim (Feb 18, 2013)

Yes and Tyler is the vanguard on bashing them for it. 

This is especially important because rooms full of drunk club goers are obviously at LEAST as concerned that they capture every memory as brides are.


----------



## pgriz (Feb 18, 2013)

Ok, you two.  Give it a rest.  The OP got his info, we get his gig, and any further harping will be on a Stanley and Stanley harp, with you two playing tandem.


----------



## manaheim (Feb 18, 2013)

I think it's all one sided now since he blocked me.. Which really only makes me look like even more of an ass, but I'm in a pissy mood. Lol

Anyway, I'll stop now.


----------



## Benco (Feb 18, 2013)

Aw....

and I just got some popcorn.


----------



## manaheim (Feb 18, 2013)




----------



## Stibbs (Feb 18, 2013)

o hey tyler said:


> You are not aware of the sheer number of people that make posts like "Hey I got my camera last week, and have a wedding next week. What are the best settings to use?" It happens ALL THE TIME. The OP is a different case, as he cleared up and I responded to. I guess you didn't read that part. Or you did, and chose to ignore it.
> 
> I'm not suggesting that he needs anyone's stamp of approval. But I'm also not suggesting a nurse perform surgery, a secretary should do my taxes, or a janitor teach children trigonometry.
> 
> There are so many people that get a camera that try and monetize it ASAP. That is the WRONG way to go about things.  The OP has a good attitude and a willingness to learn. Not everyone that buys a camera and wants to make money with it agrees that knowledge, skill, and even additional equipment is required. The OP does realize that, and that's a good thing. I'm simply pointing out that there's a lot of learning to be done prior to taking money from a spectrum of clients. He is lucky to have a controlled environment to practice and hone his skills in. That's all.




Thankyouu!


----------



## emdiemci (Feb 19, 2013)

Shooting in this type of lighting is tough, keep practicing my man & don't charge till you see that you can pull a set of photo's every time you shoot. Good luck and practice.


----------



## Stibbs (Feb 20, 2013)

Thanks man, It's not the most glamours /  easy on the eye either inside this place which makes most photos away from the DF a bit boring but I guess that's technique aswell, CAn only go up from here!


----------

