# VERY DISCOURAGING



## dphotography (Apr 10, 2012)

Theirs allot of  beginners on here that ask questions or need some c&c from a supposed pro and all they get is sarcastic idiotic comments. We are asking for the constructive criticism . So please be more compassionate and help if you can or just keep your sarcastic unnecessary comments to your self.  let me make sure i clarify I am ok with negative comments ,cause obviously if the pic is not great or good i want to  know so i could fix it and learn from it . Thanks for your time


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## jwbryson1 (Apr 10, 2012)




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## DiskoJoe (Apr 10, 2012)

dphotography said:


> Theirs allot of  beginners on here that ask questions or need some c&c from a supposed pro and all they get is sarcastic idiotic comments. We are asking for the constructive criticism . So please be more compassionate and help if you can or just keep your sarcastic unnecessary comments to your self.  let me make sure i clarify I am ok with negative comments ,cause obviously if the pic is not great or good i want to  know so i could fix it and learn from it . Thanks for your time



Everyone gets hazed a bit but you will start to find out who you can get good advice from after a while. Theyre are many great photogs on here. If all else fails just ask Darrel or Big Mike. They always give solid info.


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## OrionsByte (Apr 10, 2012)

A word of advise:

You can try to change everyone else, or you can try to change yourself.

I'm well aware that comments on this site can tend to seem hurtful or sarcastic, but quite frankly it's been that way ever since I joined.  The funny thing is, the people that tend to be the most common "offenders" of that vein also tend to be the most helpful.

All I'm saying is that you can either choose to be offended by _how _someone offers you critique or advise, or you can choose to mine their knowledge for everything it's worth and learn from it.  It's far more likely that you can adapt to the attitudes on this forum than it is for this forum to suddenly change the way it's always been.

As a postscript, there's a reason that the most helpful members on here also tend to be the most sarcastic.  When they take time to give detailed, thoughtful critiques, it's often rebuffed by the original poster in a way that makes it obvious that they're not really paying attention.  In other words, the original poster takes offense to those measured, carefully worded critiques as much as they do to the harsh, tactless ones.  They respond to the positive comments with, "Thanks!" but refuse to acknowledge the wealth of information provided to them by some other person simply because they didn't like what they said.

Simply put, in coming here, it is your responsibility to learn from whatever responses you get; it is not the responsibility of the other members of the forum to hold your hand and lead you through the learning process, though if you stick around, I think you'll find that in their own way, that's what many of them are doing.


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## jaomul (Apr 10, 2012)

dphotography said:


> Theirs allot of  beginners on here that ask questions or need some c&c from a supposed pro and all they get is sarcastic idiotic comments. We are asking for the constructive criticism . So please be more compassionate and help if you can or just keep your sarcastic unnecessary comments to your self.  let me make sure i clarify I am ok with negative comments ,cause obviously if the pic is not great or good i want to  know so i could fix it and learn from it . Thanks for your time



I know sometimes smart answers are given but mostly these are given due the same questions being asked over and over. There is a search forum that many don't seem to use. Most here that take the time to comment will more than likely give helpful advise. Having said this if you posted last week that you are not sure how to take your new $3000 camera out of the box, but this week want advise on how to charge $3000 to successfully do a wedding with one lens and the auto setting you are lining yourself up for smart comments. Also just as in day to day life there are nice people and people that are not so nice


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## jwbryson1 (Apr 10, 2012)

It's better to get "sarcastic" advice on this forum then to get no advice at all.  I post photos on here routinely and never get comments.  That's much more frustrating.  Trust me.


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## nmoody (Apr 10, 2012)

Most of the time that I see negative comments on newbies posts its due the the newbie being lazy and not searching/researching or they need to be brought off their high horse. 

That being said I still don't support such tactics but I do understand when the are being used.

We have a lot of professionals on this forum, well seasoned and very punchy bunch they are. Personally I love the playfully banter they bring to the table but sadly it sometimes gets directed at the newbies.

There are plenty of other forums out there that will coddle newbies and tell them their work is great, but nothing beats some hard love kickstart the learning process.


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## Overread (Apr 10, 2012)

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...e-your-posts-get-critiques-your-work-c-c.html

^^ Read that thread for help
Any reply I can give would be just repeating myself in that thread


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## Graystar (Apr 10, 2012)

dphotography said:


> Theirs allot of  beginners on here that ask questions or need some c&c from a supposed pro and all they get is sarcastic idiotic comments. We are asking for the constructive criticism . So please be more compassionate and help if you can or just keep your sarcastic unnecessary comments to your self.  let me make sure i clarify I am ok with negative comments ,cause obviously if the pic is not great or good i want to  know so i could fix it and learn from it . Thanks for your time


Are you saying that you see sarcastic indiotic remarks as direct responses to the beginner?  Or that the beginner's thread gets cluttered with people making such remarks at each other.  Maybe I'm not reading enough of other's responses, but I usually only see that type of response to beginners who say they're going to shoot a wedding this weekend and are asking how to do it.  That's like saying you just killed three puppies and enjoyed it.  I also see angry remarks to beginners who asks a question that asserts something negative, and wrong, as part of the question.  Such as a question that starts "Why does Nikon's Auto-ISO suck so much?"

Otherwise, I think people are generally considerate of a beginner's lack of knowledge, and try to help.


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## paigew (Apr 10, 2012)

dphotography said:


> Theirs allot of  beginners on here that ask questions or need some c&c from a supposed pro and all they get is sarcastic idiotic comments. We are asking for the constructive criticism . So please be more compassionate and help if you can or just keep your sarcastic unnecessary comments to your self.  let me make sure i clarify I am ok with negative comments ,cause obviously if the pic is not great or good i want to  know so i could fix it and learn from it . Thanks for your time



I think if you take the time to correctly structure your posts you may get responses that are more thought out and genuine. For example, when someone posts a new thread totally ridden with spelling and grammar errors people may not take them as 'serious'.


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## jowensphoto (Apr 10, 2012)

Take advice with a grain of salt. Or go to other "rainbows and roses" forums. 

Also, what Paige said. If I can't read a post without my eyes bleeding (get that salt ready), I don't read it.


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## rexbobcat (Apr 10, 2012)

I don't really feel like doing the work that the beginner should have done in the first place.

"lol just got my camera today! shot these in auto. whats wrong with thm?"

I don't know. Maybe you should STUDY. Have a little respect for the craft.

I went for two years just reading and learning before I started promoting anything that I did. I didn't waltz into internet forums yelling "TEACH MEEEEEEEEE!!"

This is not specifically directed at the OP, just newbs in general.


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## fotomumma09 (Apr 10, 2012)

Overread said:
			
		

> http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/photography-beginners-forum/164578-how-structure-your-posts-get-critiques-your-work-c-c.html
> 
> ^^ Read that thread for help
> Any reply I can give would be just repeating myself in that thread



Thanks for sharing!


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## LuckySe7en (Apr 10, 2012)

I totally agree.  I'm not a pro by any means but I try to at least give my opinion on photos and point out things that will help.  If a photo is bad, I'm not going to lie and say it's great, you'll never get anywhere that way.  

On the other hand, your C&C thread is up to 3 pages.  That's like incredible lol.  I post a pic and I'm lucky to get 3 replies!  

Oh, one other thing.  What I've also learned is that people take time out of their busy schedules to critique a photo.  And to be honest, some of the photos posted are just bad.  It's almost an embarrassment and it's very condescending to those of us who take this seriously.


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## TCampbell (Apr 10, 2012)

Everyone should _actually_ *read the owners manual*.  Yes I know it doesn't sound like an exciting way to spend the afternoon, but KNOWING what your camera does and how to control it can have a very positive impact on ... well EVERY PHOTO you'll ever take with it for as long as you own the camera.  Is that worth one afternoon of your time to you?

Apart from that, Rex, in all fairness... if someone is completely new, they won't necessarily even know where to start.

When I see someone asking a lot of questions about how to use the camera or what gear they need, I realize that before they need gear, they probably need a book.  Nobody should be prioritizing the purchase of more gear if they don't actually know _why_ they need that gear.  As for books... I have a few favorites that I usually suggest.  There's a lot of bad books -- written by people who aren't good teachers and possibly giving poor examples or analogies, using terminology that those who are new to photography won't necessarily understand (resulting in frustration), and including information from well-meaning and seasoned photographers... who also happen to be wrong.  And then of course there are some great books that are spot on, use great analogies, and provide good examples.

A lot of people are completely capable of helping themselves, but would like to be nudged in the right direction.  If that "right direction" is into a good book that covers the basics... so be it.


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## imagemaker46 (Apr 10, 2012)

"C&C from a supposed pro" When on this forum only 1% are professional photographers, 10% advanced and very good amateurs, 25% are good amateurs, and the rest are just camera owners.  You're going to end up with sarcastic comments.  The professional photographers on here are more likely going to give you a reason why the photos aren't that great and what can be done to make the next one better.  I don't comment on all the photos, some I just like.  I make comments on photos that fall into my area of experience, which is sports.  I don't often make comments on flowers, trees and rocks, other than maybe, "nice picture of a flower, tree or rock"

There have been some great photos posted on here that receive nothing more than a simple, "great shot" comment, and that's all that is required. There are alot of photos posted on here that would require a thousand words to explain why it looks as bad as it does, when simply saying, it should have been deleted in the first place.


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## dphotography (Apr 10, 2012)

jaomul said:


> dphotography said:
> 
> 
> > Theirs allot of  beginners on here that ask questions or need some c&c from a supposed pro and all they get is sarcastic idiotic comments. We are asking for the constructive criticism . So please be more compassionate and help if you can or just keep your sarcastic unnecessary comments to your self.  let me make sure i clarify I am ok with negative comments ,cause obviously if the pic is not great or good i want to  know so i could fix it and learn from it . Thanks for your time
> ...


And i get what your saying ,but in shape or form i have said i was a pro , and yes there are allot of nice people that have said in a nice critical way that my  pics are bad and i don't have a problem with that ,that motivates me more and pushes me more ,i am talking about the unnecessary things that don't need to be said cause they have nothing to do with the pic .


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## dphotography (Apr 10, 2012)

nmoody said:


> Most of the time that I see negative comments on newbies posts its due the the newbie being lazy and not searching/researching or they need to be brought off their high horse.
> 
> That being said I still don't support such tactics but I do understand when the are being used.
> 
> ...


i don't need any cuddle , I'am ok with the truth on how my pictures look,thats why i'am here to understand more what i'am doing is right or wrong.i'am also starting school ,reading books ,trying to learn as much as i can . Theres allot of post on here and i read allot of them . I might ask the same question someone asked before but that's not my fault .Why should i get a smart remark because they are tired of answering the same question. Thats not fare either. I didn't mean to offend anyone but its how i feel and my opinion


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## 12sndsgood (Apr 10, 2012)

OrionsByte said:


> A word of advise:
> 
> You can try to change everyone else, or you can try to change yourself.
> 
> ...







I couldn't respond any better then what is written above me /\


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## dphotography (Apr 10, 2012)

rexbobcat said:


> I don't really feel like doing the work that the beginner should have done in the first place.
> 
> "lol just got my camera today! shot these in auto. whats wrong with thm?"
> 
> ...


i dont need anyone to teach me ... that's not the case here..i am a mother of 4 military wife ..i know how to hold my own trust me ..c&C yes i do ask for ..a couple of questions i may need help with yes i do ask.and i have done lots of reading on my own ..but you entitled to your opinion and i 'am to mine


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## jaomul (Apr 10, 2012)

If someone says something good or bad about your images and you take something from it, good. If on the other hand someone offends, insults or says something you consider not fair, well its a big internet with lots of people you don't personally know so ignore it. But to be fair on a forum such as this it is a little better to not be to sensitive. Enjoy


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## 12sndsgood (Apr 10, 2012)

dphotography said:


> nmoody said:
> 
> 
> > Most of the time that I see negative comments on newbies posts its due the the newbie being lazy and not searching/researching or they need to be brought off their high horse.
> ...



If you didn't bother taking a minute or two to use the search feature then yes, yes it is your fault.   if you searched and couldn't find the answer then you could put that in your post and people will generally be more helpful. I have seen people make a post and two posts down is the very same question that was answered.


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## ghache (Apr 10, 2012)

I made myself a network of real professionals outside of this site so I can get real constructive criticism from real professionals.  Not from any wannabe internet know it all photographers who is shooting the same crap since 1984 and has no real skills.


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## dphotography (Apr 10, 2012)

jaomul said:


> If someone says something good or bad about your images and you take something from it, good. If on the other hand someone offends, insults or says something you consider not fair, well its a big internet with lots of people you don't personally know so ignore it. But to be fair on a forum such as this it is a little better to not be to sensitive. Enjoy


i am not sensitive just out spoken ...and like i said i don't have a problem with negative feedback but i 'am not ok with the unnecessary comments , and i didn't mean to offend anyone.


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## jowensphoto (Apr 10, 2012)

12sndsgood said:


> dphotography said:
> 
> 
> > nmoody said:
> ...



Exactly! The search feature! Google is good too. Even if you google "Beginner guide to DSLR photography" or whatever

Go learn what you can on your own, come back here with what you've learned and ask about it.

By no means do I say this to offend, OP, but I'm SO tired of teaching others how to teach themselves.


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## Alex_B (Apr 10, 2012)

ghache said:


> I made myself a network of real professionals outside of this site so I can get real constructive criticism from real professionals.  Not from any wannabe internet know it all photographers who is shooting the same crap since 1984 and has no real skills.


 wow ... so that means no one on this forum should give any advice to you I suppose? Why are you still here then? (just curious)


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## mishele (Apr 10, 2012)

12sndsgood said:


> OrionsByte said:
> 
> 
> > A word of advise:
> ...



OP, this is the best advice that you will get from anyone!!!
 These types of threads usually do far more damage than good. Start over and run away from this thread before you get a target on your back...:hug::


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## jwbryson1 (Apr 10, 2012)

"Allot" - "to assign as a share or portion" <_*allot*_ 10 minutes for the speech>

"A lot" - "a large amount" <I have _*a lot*_ of learning to do>

:banghead:


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## Majeed Badizadegan (Apr 10, 2012)

Don't be discouraged. But don't be naive either. No one's going to hold your hand. No one's going to be nice to you just because you think they should be. 

Just consistently strive to get better. Take what people have to say, no matter how they say it, and learn what you can from it. 

Move on.


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## MReid (Apr 10, 2012)

I mean well....but sometimes I just can't help my self .

I remember when I was first starting, I used to get hammered. But the reality of it is that the worse a hammering you take the faster you can grow if you take heed of the good advice you get.
The real trick is in figuring out how to filter the good advice from the bad.


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## ghostdog (Apr 10, 2012)

dphotography said:


> jaomul said:
> 
> 
> > dphotography said:
> ...



Guys, the OP is not referring to harsh criticism.  She's clear when she mentions "sarcastic" and "idiotic" comments which are no longer constructive.  I have seen quite a few of the OP's posts and I have seen her respond well to harsh criticism.  She's taken her strong medicine gracefully and keeps coming back.  That said, I have seen plenty of snide, nonsense responses aimed at her and plenty of others on this forum which are just counterproductive.  These types of responses are often cut-and-run, and offer no solution.  It's sophomoric.  This behavior will always be rationalized and justified and there's no sense of arguing with it.  It's not just this forum, it's all forums.  It doesn't matter if it's photography, motorcycles, politics, software development, whatever), people who feel they are elite will behave a certain way.  Those who want to be part of the elite will turn a blind eye, mimic, and sell out their own identity, to be part of the majority.  It will always be this way.  My fair response to the OP is simply this: some people are just jerks, some don't know how to handle or respond to being placed on a pedestal, and some otherwise good people, may condone and follow suite for all sorts of reasons.  An internet forum will behave with group mentality, and in most cases this behavior is completely different than if it were not a group.  It's human nature, so try and ignore it this angry and irrational part of human nature, just as I will ignore the harsh responses to my post here.


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## dphotography (Apr 10, 2012)

and for those trying to correct my grammar .i'am sometimes rushing , like right about know gotta get off and get  my lil guy ready for soccer ... plus dinner ..so i'am sorry if its not perfect ..sometime i multitask too many things..and its not like i am gonna find a real job here or i am speaking to the president and to the older people that r offended i am sorry i dont mean anything by it


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## The_Traveler (Apr 10, 2012)

dphotography said:


> jaomul said:
> 
> 
> > dphotography said:
> ...



I didn't read what other people have written so this may be redundant.
I like to know that I am responding to someone who takes photography seriously.  Often there isn't much to measure them by - except the little text that accompanies the posted image.
When I see text that is badly written, misspelled and uncorrected, I get the impression that the person doesn't care about how they present themselves - and by extension - may not care much about the bits and pieces of what makes a photo good. 

I'm not saying that I expect perfection but at least some effort at conforming to the general expectations of adult discourse.

As anyone , who has ever done any hiring, will tell you, a good resume gets you in the door.
That may be totally wrong on my part - but I just won't bother if you won't bother.


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## jowensphoto (Apr 10, 2012)

The only thing worse than making smart ass remarks on internet forums is complaining about the people who do. 

Just sayin'.


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## ghostdog (Apr 10, 2012)

jowensphoto said:


> The only thing worse than making smart ass remarks on internet forums is complaining about the people who do.
> 
> Just sayin'.



What's worse is jumping on the bandwagon.


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## paigew (Apr 10, 2012)

dphotography said:


> and for those trying to correct my grammar .i'am sometimes rushing , like right about know gotta get off and get  my lil guy ready for soccer ... plus dinner ..so i'am sorry if its not perfect ..sometime i multitask too many things..and its not like i am gonna find a real job here or i am speaking to the president and to the older people that r offended i am sorry i dont mean anything by it



I am also a mother and often times I am typing with one hand while nursing my babe to sleep. So yes, I see what you mean about not always having perfect grammar, etc. But IMO there is a difference between that and pure laziness (i.e "allot" instead of A LOT, i'am instead of I'm or I am). Honestly, not trying to sound ugly or rude, but if you do not have the intelligence to know the difference between i'am and I'm, it is going to be hard for you to understand how to properly use your camera. To be completely self taught (as I am) is very challenging and requires you to allot a much time into studying and learning. While shooting in manual mode you use many skills; mathematics being a huge one. If one cannot simply write a few sentences correctly in the start of a thread (for c&c) why should we waste our time giving it? The way I view it, if you are not literate it will be very hard to understand how to use a camera. Why waste my time critiquing a photo when the thread starter can't even spell?


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## jowensphoto (Apr 10, 2012)

ghostdog said:


> jowensphoto said:
> 
> 
> > The only thing worse than making smart ass remarks on internet forums is complaining about the people who do.
> ...



And now you expect me to be hypocritical and complain about your snarky response. You're good... but not good enough, my friend.


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## ghostdog (Apr 10, 2012)

paigew said:


> dphotography said:
> 
> 
> > and for those trying to correct my grammar .i'am sometimes rushing , like right about know gotta get off and get  my lil guy ready for soccer ... plus dinner ..so i'am sorry if its not perfect ..sometime i multitask too many things..and its not like i am gonna find a real job here or i am speaking to the president and to the older people that r offended i am sorry i dont mean anything by it
> ...



Yet you spend this much time and energy criticizing her spelling and grammar.  I don't get it.  You feel this strongly about her posts, just move on and ignore it.  No one is demanding that you respond with anything.  I'm sorry, but you contradict yourself and what you're posting here makes very little sense.


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## jowensphoto (Apr 10, 2012)

ghostdog said:


> paigew said:
> 
> 
> > dphotography said:
> ...



And you spend this much time defending someone you don't know. I don't get it.

Forgive me, boring day at work. Thankfully, it's quittin' time


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## dphotography (Apr 10, 2012)

ghostdog said:


> dphotography said:
> 
> 
> > jaomul said:
> ...


Thank YOU ...FINALLY SOME ONE GETS IT...


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## paigew (Apr 10, 2012)

ghostdog said:


> paigew said:
> 
> 
> > dphotography said:
> ...



dude I wrote like 5 sentences...hardly a lot of time. And I am not criticizing her grammar per say. I am answering her original question. What did I say that doesn't make sense to you? When I see a post that is composed like a 7 year old wrote it, I assume the op is not educated and do not respond. I assume others feel this way too?


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## Overread (Apr 10, 2012)

Remember sarcasm is popular on the net even though most people fail to convey it as such and many fail to read it  -- thus sometimes comments feel more harsh/mocking than they are intended to be (this is doubly tricky because it normally affects new people more as they don't have the prior history with the people to know that they are just joking and not mocking/insulting). 


Also I still strongly suggest the thread I referenced earlier - present a serious thread and people will respond in kind


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## gsgary (Apr 10, 2012)

Overread said:


> Remember sarcasm is popular on the net even though most people fail to convey it as such and many fail to read it  -- thus sometimes comments feel more harsh/mocking than they are intended to be (this is doubly tricky because it normally affects new people more as they don't have the prior history with the people to know that they are just joking and not mocking/insulting).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think you will be back later to lock this thread


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## LuckySe7en (Apr 10, 2012)

If some of you put half as much effort into your photography as you have into this thread, we wouldn't be having this conversation.


:hug::


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## bentcountershaft (Apr 10, 2012)

Overread said:


> Remember sarcasm is popular on the net even though most people fail to convey it as such and many fail to read it  -- thus sometimes comments feel more harsh/mocking than they are intended to be (this is doubly tricky because it normally affects new people more as they don't have the prior history with the people to know that they are just joking and not mocking/insulting).



What about when I want to be sarcastic AND mocking/insulting at the same time?  I feel like I can pull off both if I put my mind to it.  I haven't dedicated much time lately to finding myself worthy candidates for such specialized treatment but I'll get around to it.


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## fotomumma09 (Apr 10, 2012)

I think it would be beneficial for the OP to humbly accept criticism but also to the rest, extend a little grace here people! Might be a good idea for some to remember the golden rule you learned in grade school?


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## MTVision (Apr 10, 2012)

Honestly, if you don't like reading the snarky/sarcastic remarks - ignore it or block the person. That's about all you can do. Threads like this pop up every now and then - they don't help or change anything. In real life there is sarcasm, disputes and drama so obviously it's going to be on a forum as well.


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## jwbryson1 (Apr 10, 2012)

FWIW, I don't care about poor grammar (to a point).  I also don't care about misspelled words for the most part.  I'm not a professional photographer but I know enough to give constructive criticism when I see something that needs to be addressed in an image.

I also get the nasty comments/responses the OP refers to --I "get" that as well.  They are counterproductive and don't advance the ball.

Having said that, in my view this OP seems to have come to the forum in a bit of haste looking for a quick solution without doing any legwork on her own.  I've seen these types of posts enough that I know how the "regulars" are going to respond.  Anybody coming in here without taking the first crack at learning on her own and "pushing" through the crowd to get to the "solutions" is going to get flamed.  When you add to that attitude the poor grammar and misspellings, etc., it tends to ignite the "regulars" who have seen it all before.  It seems to me that if somebody is serious about this craft and they want answers or help with a specific problem, they should have done some legwork on their own first.  People are willing to listen and to help, but nobody wants to spoon feed.  Particularly when the OP seems to want it handed to her with no skin in the game.

Just my $0.02.


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## mjhoward (Apr 10, 2012)

Sabrina? Is that you?


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## gsgary (Apr 10, 2012)

mjhoward said:


> Sabrina? Is that you?



I wish she would come back, it was so much fun


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## enzodm (Apr 10, 2012)

I personally never had harsh/nasty comments. Never. Even at the very beginning. And I bet many others can tell the same. 
However, I regularly use the search function, browse, search with Google.  Every _basic_ question has been answered thousands of times, so why bother asking again? I end up asking rarely. More frequently, I read answers to others' posts -the way I learn not driven by a direct interest. 

Regarding people attitudes, even if someone helps and listens, this is like a pub: no one has mandatory duties (except poor mods). We mostly join this place for fun, and sometimes drama is fun (whining/screaming beginners, elites, robinhoods... just choose one character  ).


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## jwbryson1 (Apr 10, 2012)

gsgary said:


> mjhoward said:
> 
> 
> > Sabrina? Is that you?
> ...



Or Amateur Allie. Now THAT was fun!


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## imagemaker46 (Apr 10, 2012)

dphotography said:


> jaomul said:
> 
> 
> > If someone says something good or bad about your images and you take something from it, good. If on the other hand someone offends, insults or says something you consider not fair, well its a big internet with lots of people you don't personally know so ignore it. But to be fair on a forum such as this it is a little better to not be to sensitive. Enjoy
> ...



I'm sure that you are a very nice person, and to be blunt and honest, after looking at your photos you have online, you are really just an advanced amateur. You seem to be looking for some kind of professional validation. 

 I post photos on here and don't ask for any kind of c&c, I post them just to share them. I do appreciate comments good or bad, I also know that what I post is well above average and if someone has a negative comment about them, I expect them to explain what it is and how they would have done it better.  I just try to inspire the creative thoughts in others.


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## IByte (Apr 10, 2012)

dphotography said:
			
		

> Why should i get a smart remark because they are tired of answering the same question. Thats not fare either. I didn't mean to offend anyone but its how i feel and my opinion



Some people are smarta.. in general lil lady.  Also, since we are not in person at a pub(like I am right now , they are trying to see your reaction; whether you're a frump girl or more welcomed humor to this forum.  I posted a few pictures that had some effort at my level of experience.  I got a few encouraging comments, but the wisecracks also held some good info.  Stick around get to know the people, especially the regulars, post few more photos with some elbow grease and welcome .


PS. My apologies for my grammar, after a few pints and chasers my grammar tends to be a little off.


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## HughGuessWho (Apr 10, 2012)

paigew said:
			
		

> I think if you take the time to correctly structure your posts you may get responses that are more thought out and genuine. For example, when someone posts a new thread totally ridden with spelling and grammar errors people may not take them as 'serious'.



Ever consider that this forum is on the World Wide Web and english isn't everyone's native language?


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## ewick (Apr 10, 2012)

jwbryson1 said:


> It's better to get "sarcastic" advice on this forum then to get no advice at all.  I post photos on here routinely and never get comments.  That's much more frustrating.  Trust me.



I agree with you. Every time I post pictures I would rather get a whole bunch of what is wrong with them (in their opinion) as opposed to hearing "great job" (those are nice every now and again as well) but my point is i welcome C&C on what is wrong with my pics. When i post them.


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## IByte (Apr 10, 2012)

HughGuessWho said:
			
		

> Ever consider that this forum is on the World Wide Web and english isn't everyone's native language?



True but this isn't "1984" with Newspeak either.


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## dphotography (Apr 10, 2012)

IByte said:
			
		

> True but this isn't "1984" with Newspeak either.



That's how smart they. I speak mostly Spanish. Thanks for pointing that out


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## Derrel (Apr 10, 2012)

*"En la boca cerrada no entran moscas."*  (Into a closed mouth, flies do not enter.)

One of the most famous idiomatic expressions in the Spanish language...and seemingly appropriate in this instance, methinks.


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## mishele (Apr 10, 2012)

Target has been placed......me thinks....lol


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## ewick (Apr 10, 2012)

jowensphoto said:


> 12sndsgood said:
> 
> 
> > dphotography said:
> ...



I see both sides of the coin... however, you do realize you are NOT obligated to teach anybody anything right? just saying.


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## Austin Greene (Apr 10, 2012)

dphotography said:


> Theirs allot of  beginners on here that ask questions or need some c&c from a supposed pro and all they get is sarcastic idiotic comments. We are asking for the constructive criticism . So please be more compassionate and help if you can or just keep your sarcastic unnecessary comments to your self.  let me make sure i clarify I am ok with negative comments ,cause obviously if the pic is not great or good i want to  know so i could fix it and learn from it . Thanks for your time



Sorry, let me turn up my coddling meter a couple notches. 

Oh wait...

It broke. 




Don't take this the wrong way, but as others have said, its a bit of a hazing ritual we all go through. Do we want fauxtographers bleeding the forums dry with constant troll posts featuring titles like "I git mai D3100, how i make D monayz?" by coddling them and applauding poor technical ability? Hell no. 

Instead, we try our best to weed out all those who aren't truly passionate, and so far I'd say its been quite successful. If your really wanting to become a decent photographer, as your mentioned interest in learning would indicate, then you of all people should appreciate the efforts of these forums members. If we welcomed every person who just picked up a DSLR and thinks that "P" on the mode dial is for "Professional-turn to make money" then all of your posts asking for genuine help would quickly be suffocated and never see the light of day. 

Sit through it, take the asinine remarks with a grain of salt, and learn to handle proper critique. At least, thats what you should do if you truly want to learn and improve your shots. If you think we're rough, you should check out what the professionals in the real photography industry are like. Nat Geo photographers get their ass handed to them, if not fired, for the tiniest faults that even the most seasoned professionals here would have a hard time catching. 


P.S: First thing I would do is change it so your photos can be edited. Its not like your trying to sell your photos, and I can tell you from personal experience that the CC you receive is much better when people can manipulate your shots themselves to demonstrate their thought process.


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## mishele (Apr 10, 2012)




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## 12sndsgood (Apr 10, 2012)

I learned a long time ago the Internet is filled with great info and it's also filled with crap.  Whining about the crap that is posted generally has the effect of pulling the people who spew crap out of the woodwork. So I learned to just read the important stuff and ignore the crap. Nothing you do or say is going to change those that spew crap so focus on the important stuff or your going to have a miserable time.


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## KmH (Apr 10, 2012)

paigew said:


> I think if you take the time to correctly structure your posts you may get responses that are more thought out and genuine. For example, when someone posts a new thread totally ridden with spelling and grammar errors people may not take them as 'serious'.


Yep. If a member won't bother to make appropriate capital letters, paragraphs, or puts .... all through their posts, why should anyone else bother to even look at their photos, let alone C&C them, since the same lame attitude was likely used with their camera.

Most neophytes would be way ahead in the game if they made the effort to learn the artistic and technical fundamentals of photography, and learned how to use the camera/lens/light before they start posting for C&C.


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## KmH (Apr 10, 2012)

I have decided my comment was out of line.


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## DiskoJoe (Apr 10, 2012)

Derrel said:
			
		

> "En la boca cerrada no entran moscas."  (Into a closed mouth, flies do not enter.)
> 
> One of the most famous idiomatic expressions in the Spanish language...and seemingly appropriate in this instance, methinks.



What did I tell you. Listen to the man.


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## Alex_B (Apr 10, 2012)

LuckySe7en said:


> If some of you put half as much effort into your photography as you have into this thread, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
> 
> 
> :hug::




ugly weather outside, no studio booked, not in the mood for abstract indoor macro ... meh ... so I prefer to entertain myself in this thread today


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## Alex_B (Apr 10, 2012)

HughGuessWho said:


> paigew said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you! It isn't mine either!


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## jake337 (Apr 10, 2012)

Lame....


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## Bitter Jeweler (Apr 10, 2012)

Alex_B said:


> HughGuessWho said:
> 
> 
> > paigew said:
> ...



Yeah, and what's funny is how many people with English as a second language are able to write better than many with English as their only language.





Too busy to communicate effectively? Well, you're probably too busy to learn effectively.  You're also probably too busy to read books and practice in an effective manner.


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## 12sndsgood (Apr 10, 2012)

KmH said:


> paigew said:
> 
> 
> > I think if you take the time to correctly structure your posts you may get responses that are more thought out and genuine. For example, when someone posts a new thread totally ridden with spelling and grammar errors people may not take them as 'serious'.
> ...




I will disagree with this. Saying because someone doesnt have proper punctuation in no way has any bearing on how well they know there camera or how serious they are about there photography skills. That is just totally reaching. If you want to be snobby and not help someone because they mis-used the word allot or a lot fine, but saying they don't know there camera because of it is just utter nonsence. Thats like saying. well you have been in a car wreck so you must not care about your photography because someone serious about photography would take more care in driving to a photography event.


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## Alex_B (Apr 10, 2012)

OK, let us not make this a language related thread.

I suggest the OP posts some more images and asks for advice, or just for comments or whatever she is after.

And then we will see how all this develops if everyone gives everyone else a second chance 

(Oops, I just realised I put someone on my ignore list in the course of this thread though. Let us call it collateral damage  )


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## imagemaker46 (Apr 10, 2012)

Just visit the Op's  flickr website with her photos. Found in her profile.


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## dphotography (Apr 10, 2012)

All i gotta say is i could get a thread started..Did i break the record ...it's all good... i haven't taken any of this personal.


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## AMOMENT (Apr 10, 2012)

AMEN.  You are not alone.  I became very discouraged as well until I started studying with successful photographers in my area who were much moer humble about their knowledge and less arrogant.  I feel like if "you" are lurking in the beginners forum than you should have a LARGE amount of patience.  If you are going to become frustrated by repetitive questions or questions that seem obvious, than stick to the forums that this is less likely to happen in.  

Also, try not to be discouraged.  One thing I have learned is that if you do make a career of this or even on an advanced hobby your biggest critic will be other photographers.  Keep that passion going because there is no HARM in being wrong in photography.  Maybe you take an off' photo but no one get hurt    If you are getting paid, than you do have more resposnibility to capture the moment for your clients.  Believe me I know how you feel.  It's sometimes hard to get decency.  It's funny because so many of the experts on here claim that  you become offended when you get bad reviews or cc but they fail to see this has nothing to do with it.  It's the lack of respect and or the sarcasm that can be offensive.  Hang in there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Alex_B (Apr 10, 2012)

dphotography said:


> All i gotta say is i could get a thread started..Did i break the record ...it's all good... i haven't taken any of this personal.



You broke no record today  ... As this is the internet, the thread could have become much worse. This is all rather straight-forward and direct, but still mostly very civilised.



And in a sense entertaining


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## dphotography (Apr 10, 2012)

mishele said:


> Target has been placed......me thinks....lol


 and i ain't running.....


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## rexbobcat (Apr 10, 2012)

AMOMENT said:


> AMEN.  You are not alone.  I became very discouraged as well until I started studying with successful photographers in my area who were much moer humble about their knowledge and less arrogant.



That's because they probably don't see you as a threat. Just wait until you announce that you're going into business and see how humble they are.


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## dphotography (Apr 10, 2012)

Alex_B said:


> dphotography said:
> 
> 
> > All i gotta say is i could get a thread started..Did i break the record ...it's all good... i haven't taken any of this personal.
> ...


very entertaining ,


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## Bitter Jeweler (Apr 10, 2012)

rexbobcat said:


> AMOMENT said:
> 
> 
> > AMEN.  You are not alone.  I became very discouraged as well until I started studying with successful photographers in my area who were much moer humble about their knowledge and less arrogant.
> ...



She already has.


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## cgipson1 (Apr 10, 2012)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> rexbobcat said:
> 
> 
> > AMOMENT said:
> ...



YES.. she has!


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## cgipson1 (Apr 10, 2012)

dphotography said:


> Theirs allot of  beginners on here that ask questions or need some c&c from a supposed pro and all they get is sarcastic idiotic comments. We are asking for the constructive criticism . So please be more compassionate and help if you can or just keep your sarcastic unnecessary comments to your self.  let me make sure i clarify I am ok with negative comments ,cause obviously if the pic is not great or good i want to  know so i could fix it and learn from it . Thanks for your time



The only ones I am intentionally rude to.. or ignore, are the ones that advertise they are "Professionals" on their websites.. and then come here and ask the simplest of beginner questions! Or those that do "PAID" shoots.. and their work is total overexposed, underexposed, harshly lit, out of focus, bad white balanced, discolored, overly processed CRAP!

I am not obligated to help anyone.. I do this for free! But I do not have to gracefully put up with those that make the word "photographer" a JOKE, either!


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## Mach0 (Apr 10, 2012)

jwbryson1 said:
			
		

> It's better to get "sarcastic" advice on this forum then to get no advice at all.  I post photos on here routinely and never get comments.  That's much more frustrating.  Trust me.



Couldn't agree more lol


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## cgipson1 (Apr 10, 2012)

AMOMENT said:


> AMEN.  You are not alone.  I became very discouraged as well until I started studying with successful photographers in my area who were much moer humble about their knowledge and less arrogant.  I feel like if "you" are lurking in the beginners forum than you should have a LARGE amount of patience.  If you are going to become frustrated by repetitive questions or questions that seem obvious, than stick to the forums that this is less likely to happen in.
> 
> Also, try not to be discouraged.  One thing I have learned is that if you do make a career of this or even on an advanced hobby your biggest critic will be other photographers.  Keep that passion going because there is no HARM in being wrong in photography.  Maybe you take an off' photo but no one get hurt    If you are getting paid, than you do have more resposnibility to capture the moment for your clients.  Believe me I know how you feel.  It's sometimes hard to get decency.  It's funny because so many of the experts on here claim that  you become offended when you get bad reviews or cc but they fail to see this has nothing to do with it.  It's the lack of respect and or the sarcasm that can be offensive.  Hang in there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



I wonder what you consider successful? $50 a portrait session with 100 bad photos on a CD? Or those the charge $200 for a wedding.. and give 1000 bad photos on a cd? What do you define as successful?


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## IByte (Apr 10, 2012)

cgipson1 said:
			
		

> I wonder what you consider successful? $50 a portrait session with 100 bad photos on a CD? Or those the charge $200 for a wedding.. and give 1000 bad photos on a cd? What do you define as successful?



When you don't end up on "You Are Not a Photographer's" website.


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## Austin Greene (Apr 10, 2012)

dphotography said:


> All i gotta say is i could get a thread started..Did i break the record ...it's all good... i haven't taken any of this personal.



And so it was that grammar once again lost the battle against laziness.


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## Austin Greene (Apr 10, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> I do this for free! But I do not have to gracefully put up with those that make the word "photographer" a JOKE, either!



Almost as good as Velveeta, only in text form. I believe the same slogan still applies...

LIQUID GOLD


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## manaheim (Apr 10, 2012)

dphotography said:


> ghostdog said:
> 
> 
> > dphotography said:
> ...



This is all well and good, but maybe you should ask yourself why you are a target for this?  Maybe it's the rushed typing?  Your posts in this thread are, frankly, a mess.  That's kind of like waving a red flag in front of a pull on the internet.


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## mjhoward (Apr 10, 2012)

manaheim said:


> dphotography said:
> 
> 
> > ghostdog said:
> ...



 What an unfortunate time to misspell BULL.


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## dphotography (Apr 10, 2012)

cgipson1 said:
			
		

> The only ones I am intentionally rude to.. or ignore, are the ones that advertise they are "Professionals" on their websites.. and then come here and ask the simplest of beginner questions! Or those that do "PAID" shoots.. and their work is total overexposed, underexposed, harshly lit, out of focus, bad white balanced, discolored, overly processed CRAP!
> 
> I am not obligated to help anyone.. I do this for free! But I do not have to gracefully put up with those that make the word "photographer" a JOKE, either!



Well I haven't said any of those things .. Never said I was a pro , never said I get paid for my pictures. I could handle a negative comment, hell I could handle this thread .But I won't let anyone talk to me like I am less of a person cause I am asking a question or asking for  some c&c. If you don't want to answer than don't .. Very simple and if you do ,than do so and be and act like an adult and give some constructive critic even if it's negative .. Very simple


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## 12sndsgood (Apr 10, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> AMOMENT said:
> 
> 
> > AMEN.  You are not alone.  I became very discouraged as well until I started studying with successful photographers in my area who were much moer humble about their knowledge and less arrogant.  I feel like if "you" are lurking in the beginners forum than you should have a LARGE amount of patience.  If you are going to become frustrated by repetitive questions or questions that seem obvious, than stick to the forums that this is less likely to happen in.
> ...




Apparently a sucess was the lady next to me having her hair cut telling the hairdresser  how she read an article in the newspaper this week saying the average wedding photographer costs $3200 and how she found one who would do engagement photos and wedding photos for $500. I just kept my eyes shut kept to myself.


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## manaheim (Apr 10, 2012)

mjhoward said:


> manaheim said:
> 
> 
> > dphotography said:
> ...




BAHAHAHAHAHAHA...

WOW.

The fates up and done smack me right in the face.


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## dphotography (Apr 10, 2012)

cgipson1 said:
			
		

> I wonder what you consider successful? $50 a portrait session with 100 bad photos on a CD? Or those the charge $200 for a wedding.. and give 1000 bad photos on a cd? What do you define as successful?



I think you need to learn how to read correct .. She said if I wanna be successful .she was being encouraging . You have learned my name and you will see my name in other places . I may not be the best at grammar but you need to learn how to read a little bit better . You all have fueled me to be the best of the best . Thanks for the motivation and determination I have gotten from here


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## The_Traveler (Apr 10, 2012)

dphotography said:


> Very simple and if you do ,than do so and be and act like an adult and give some constructive critic even if it's negative .. Very simple



I feel the same way. Talk to me, in writing, like I'm an actual adult who possibly has something you might value - not the person you are texting.
You clearly can do it, you just did.


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## cgipson1 (Apr 10, 2012)

dphotography said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I never said that was aimed at you either, did I! I was merely answering the question you presented in your first post! Period!


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## mishele (Apr 10, 2012)

Welcome back DScience. Where have you been?


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## cgipson1 (Apr 10, 2012)

dphotography said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Do you notice that there are a lot of very well respected, well educated photographers here that seem to feel the same way I do? Got a clue, yet?


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## DScience (Apr 10, 2012)

Any person here that is bashing this lady for her typing is just SAD. This is the end of my forum participation with you people. I came back for a moment, and was reminded of why I left. I honestly cannot believe what I am seeing here. People have NO respect. You should all be ashamed of yourselves for letting your egos get out of control.


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## dphotography (Apr 10, 2012)

You just proved how right or write rite .. Which one hmmmm u figure it out but back to what I was saying .. Thank for proving what I have been saying all along


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## DScience (Apr 10, 2012)

I recently started a Neuroscience PhD program at UC Davis.


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## mishele (Apr 10, 2012)

Bye DScience?


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## The_Traveler (Apr 10, 2012)

Well, Dscience, you absolutely have the right to interact with anyone in any manner that you like.
 I, on the other hand, prefer that someone take me seriously enough to speak and write in my language.

I imagine that your teachers might feel the same - but you can tell us about that later.


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## dphotography (Apr 10, 2012)

This is all it comes down to most of you have proven what I said.. Read what has been posted . You are all supposed to be professional adults. Well at least I thought so. It's very petty how you couldn't and  haven't broken me down that now you are looking  at something to pick at. Shame on all . This is where our kids learn to be bullies and treat people the way they do .


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## dphotography (Apr 10, 2012)

DScience said:
			
		

> LOL no my friend, that was directed at the horrible woman who was putting you down. Sorry but you are misreading my post. PEACE
> !



If I did sorry I am on my iPhone .. Lol


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## cgipson1 (Apr 10, 2012)

We are just communicating to you, that in the real "Adult" world... you are expected to act like an adult. Communicating like a twelve year old girl with a cell phone does not enhance respect! I am not trying to be a jerk.. just trying to help you see that if you want respect, you need to show yourself worthy of respect. Spelling and grammar has little to do with that.. but your communication in general, and your attitude have a lot do to with it!

I don't even judge people on their photos unless they claim to be a pro.... but I do look at how they present themselves and how they communicate! Not much else to go on, on the Internet!


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## paigew (Apr 10, 2012)

I am sorry DScience that my post was misread. But I did not accuse the op of being illiterate. Actually, my direct quote is this _*"The way I view it, if you are not literate it will be very hard to understand how to use a camera." *_If read in context one would see that it was meant as a general statement in response to the original question (something like) "why don't my photos get many c&c".It was not meant as a label to the op.

Actually I did not make any direct insults to the op and constructed my response in a very specific way to try and get my point across without 'name calling' or insulting. I spent time to try and explain my immediate view of a person, when the first thing I see from them is typed in such a lazy fashion. I think you are the one who is name calling and judging me after you misquoted and misrepresented my post. Shame on you.

And yes, I do know that this is the "world wide web". But I also check the op's location when I see extreme typos like what is seen here on this thread.


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## ghostdog (Apr 10, 2012)

LOL!  DScience... you nailed it!  Thanks for having the balls to call it like it is.  :thumbup:
You're a glimmer of sunshine in the abyss of stupidity.


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## cgipson1 (Apr 10, 2012)

Speaking of an abyss of stupidity!


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## KmH (Apr 10, 2012)

dphotography said:


> This is all it comes down to most of you have proven what I said.. Read what has been posted . You are all supposed to be professional adults. Well at least I thought so. It's very petty how you couldn't and  haven't broken me down that now you are looking  at something to pick at. Shame on all . This is where our kids learn to be bullies and treat people the way they do .


Thank you, for making the effort to communicate clearly. :thumbup:

TPF is a public forum. Only some portion of the forum members are professionals. Members don't have to be adults.


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## Buckster (Apr 10, 2012)

If you consider someone so offensive that it brings your forum experience down, here's something you can do about it:

1. Click the offensive person's user name.
2. Click "View Profile".
3. Click "Add to Ignore List".

Instantly you get a better forum experience.

For the so-called "pros" who feel a need to lash out and be a$$clowns:

1. You aren't required to respond to every noob post there is.  If it's just plain dumb in your opinion, you can easily move on to something that would be more worth your time and effort to help with; Something you could answer or help with without being driven to be a jerk about it.

2. Your excuses for being jerks, usually centered on blaming your victims in some way, are just that: Excuses.  Own your snotty reactions and stop blaming others.

3.  Feel free to tear me a new one over this.  I probably have you on ignore already anyway.  

P.S.  Keith, you make plenty of spelling and grammar mistakes of your own, so your near-constant berating of others over their spelling and grammar is just plain hypocritical, and you really should knock it off.  I've noticed that even simple stuff like whether you should use "to", "too" or "two" is often beyond your abilities.  In short, you think you're all that, but you're not, so stop pretending to be an English professor and the site's official spelling and grammar Nazi.  It's a ridiculous shtick, especially on an internet forum, where lots of people of all backgrounds are sharing their thoughts with one another.  What counts are the thoughts and ideas conveyed, not the minutiae concerning how they were written.

Also, everyone please keep in mind that there are always two opinions on everything: Mine and the wrong one.  Let's try to keep that straight, mkay?  :mrgreen:


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## cgipson1 (Apr 10, 2012)

KmH said:


> dphotography said:
> 
> 
> > This is all it comes down to most of you have proven what I said.. Read what has been posted . You are all supposed to be professional adults. Well at least I thought so. It's very petty how you couldn't and  haven't broken me down that now you are looking  at something to pick at. Shame on all . This is where our kids learn to be bullies and treat people the way they do .
> ...



I never said I was a Professional ADULT.. far from it!!! :greenpbl:


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## IByte (Apr 10, 2012)

Can't tell you how many times I had to edit my posts....damn you beer!!


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## KmH (Apr 10, 2012)

I at least try Buckster. I edit my posts when I see errors, I appreciate when pople point errors out to me, and again edit when appropriate.

That is not the same as when people just flat out ignore trying to get it right.


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## ghostdog (Apr 10, 2012)

Buckster said:


> If you consider someone so offensive that it brings your forum experience down, here's something you can do about it:
> 
> 1. Click the offensive person's user name.
> 2. Click "View Profile".
> ...



Well said Buckster!  :thumbup:


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## KmH (Apr 10, 2012)

Looks like it's all been said.


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