# First Model Photo Shoot - CC Welcome



## Heather Koch (Oct 15, 2014)

I'll link my original thread here for people who want to see it for information...
Advice - Model Photographing... | Photography Forum

We went out today around 3:30 PM and it was an overcast day, with some sun.  The lighting was perfect.

Here are some shots I took, will post more as I edit them.  Let me know your thoughts and critiques


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## KmH (Oct 15, 2014)

For me the skin softening is over done.
Her eyes, nose, and lips look OOF.

Her skin tone looks un-natural in all but the bottom photo.

I like the composition with her sitting on the ground, but the standing pose with her hand behind the pipe seems somehow 'off'.


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## Rick50 (Oct 15, 2014)

I like #2 best but the background is distracting. The pose and exposure looks good. Maybe a wider aperture to blur those windows a bit. Your edit helps here. My eye goes to the light. I like the fact she is looking into the camera.
On the bottom 2 I don't like staring off into space but that's probably just me. Again a bit busy background.


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## Heather Koch (Oct 16, 2014)

KmH said:


> For me the skin softening is over done.
> Her eyes, nose, and lips look OOF.
> 
> Her skin tone looks un-natural in all but the bottom photo.
> ...



I did upload with Photobucket because I don't have flickr anymore since they stopped letting you use gmail account.  In the actual picture is looks ten times better, but I see what you are saying.  I only softened the skin 15-20% opacity because her skin is already really smooth.  As for the skin tone, I guess that would come from the edits I tried, the more natural edit is the one you mentioned that looked the most natural for the skin tone, which makes sense.  All the poses were natural, I didn't have any ideas so we kind of just went with the flow, I told her do something that is natural to you and thats what she did, I just snapped what looked good, or at least what I thought looked best 

Thanks for the C&C


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## Heather Koch (Oct 16, 2014)

Rick50 said:


> I like #2 best but the background is distracting. The pose and exposure looks good. Maybe a wider aperture to blur those windows a bit. Your edit helps here. My eye goes to the light. I like the fact she is looking into the camera.
> On the bottom 2 I don't like staring off into space but that's probably just me. Again a bit busy background.



I was debating on if I wanted to blur the background more or not, I guess I should have just to see the difference.  A wider aperture is what I was missing, I did so much research and I could only remember so much lol... Next time I will adjust that as well.  

THANKS!


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## tirediron (Oct 16, 2014)

With respect to the first image, you've (unintentionally) created perhaps the best bad example of 'disembodied limb' syndrome I've seen in a long time.  If you "step back" from the image and look at it, the fingers we see coming around the "front" of the pipe don't immediately appear to belong to the model.  There are two reasons for this:  (1) Because her shrirt sleeve goes almost to the pipe, and we don't see any bare arm leading up to it for our eye to follow through the pipe; and (2) because the angle of her hand as it appears to the viewer makes it appear as if her arm should be going out parallel to the ground.  If you wanted to position her arm behind the pipe, you should have (IMO) had more bare arm visible (rolled her sleeve up higher) and angled her fingers so that our eye could "draw in" the missing arm at the correct angle.


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## Heather Koch (Oct 16, 2014)

Heres a couple more poses... Created a flickr account




DET_1693oldpolar by heather.koch43, on Flickr




DET_1693memory by heather.koch43, on Flickr




DET_1614oldpolar by heather.koch43, on Flickr


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## Heather Koch (Oct 16, 2014)

tirediron said:


> With respect to the first image, you've (unintentionally) created perhaps the best bad example of 'disembodied limb' syndrome I've seen in a long time.  If you "step back" from the image and look at it, the fingers we see coming around the "front" of the pipe don't immediately appear to belong to the model.  There are two reasons for this:  (1) Because her shrirt sleeve goes almost to the pipe, and we don't see any bare arm leading up to it for our eye to follow through the pipe; and (2) because the angle of her hand as it appears to the viewer makes it appear as if her arm should be going out parallel to the ground.  If you wanted to position her arm behind the pipe, you should have (IMO) had more bare arm visible (rolled her sleeve up higher) and angled her fingers so that our eye could "draw in" the missing arm at the correct angle.



I see exactly what you are saying, I was definitely not focused on her arm while taking this, there is so much to consider when shooting someone.  Thank you for your critique!


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## Derrel (Oct 16, 2014)

All of these except the last one like they are back-focused. In post #7, the first image, she is way out of focus. I am not sure what's going on with the two poses in the first post; she looks out of focus and the background looks more in focus. She does not need ANY skin smoothing. Whatever you have done on these is ruining the images...your girl looks gorgeous! Buuuuut, she's out of focus in appearance.


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## Heather Koch (Oct 16, 2014)

Derrel said:


> All of these except the last one like they are back-focused. In post #7, the first image, she is way out of focus. I am not sure what's going on with the two poses in the first post; she looks out of focus and the background looks more in focus. She does not need ANY skin smoothing. Whatever you have done on these is ruining the images...your girl looks gorgeous! Buuuuut, she's out of focus in appearance.



Yes I agree about post #7, I had to crop that one quite a bit because it was even more distracting.  What would you suggest about the edit?  What don't/do you like?  If I may ask...


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## xzyragon (Oct 16, 2014)

pretty good for a first attempt (and I'm not an expert so take my advice with a grain of salt), but...

1: she is too dark, her skin tone is grey-ish and the light of the windows is distracting
2: over-saturated so she looks oompa-loompa ish, and the light of the windows still overpowers her
3: waaay to over-saturated, but is at least brighter.  Maybe tone down the oranges and increase their luminance, then bump down the highlights
4: the leaves and her sweater are brighter than her face, but I like the composition and the pose
5: it's really gray, probably from toning back on the highlights or whites.  

Just my 2 cents. If she's a friend, you should have no trouble using her to practice more and more with portraiture.


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## Heather Koch (Oct 16, 2014)

xzyragon said:


> pretty good for a first attempt (and I'm not an expert so take my advice with a grain of salt), but...
> 
> 1: she is too dark, her skin tone is grey-ish and the light of the windows is distracting
> 2: over-saturated so she looks oompa-loompa ish, and the light of the windows still overpowers her
> ...



Thank you, yes we will be going out way more to practice.  We both are new at this, so we each have a lot to learn. 

Thanks again for the kind critique!


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## Heather Koch (Oct 16, 2014)

How is this one?  This is my favorite thus far.




DET_1555orig by heather.koch43, on Flickr


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## xzyragon (Oct 16, 2014)

Heather Koch said:


> How is this one?  This is my favorite thus far.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm not sure how I feel about the contrast between the wood and the brick, but otherwise she's exposed great.  Good skin tones (maybe a touch grey), but you can still see the detail in her sweater.  The pose is a little flat though.


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## Heather Koch (Oct 16, 2014)

Well that barn has a special place in my heart, so I absolutely love that contrast.  Also into interior design and love it more.  But with this photo, it wasn't on our radar as much as the others, I literally went to my folder, quickly grabbed one that stood out to me right there and didn't play with the colors at all.  I have a tendency to sit and stare at a photo for a good hour and play with it, I think my eyes start to trick me, I need to learn to edit them easier and quicker and pleasing to the eye.  If that makes sense.


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## Heather Koch (Oct 16, 2014)

DET_1563orig by heather.koch43, on Flickr




DET_1576orig by heather.koch43, on Flickr


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## Rick50 (Oct 16, 2014)

The 2nd one in #16 looks pretty good. I don't think I would pull the sweater down over her shoulder and thus expose the strap but that could be just me. At some point as you learn things mentioned here you might think about adding fill flash. Flash would also help separate her from the background. But them main purpose would be to light the face better.


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## xzyragon (Oct 16, 2014)

Rick50 said:


> The 2nd one in #16 looks pretty good. I don't think I would pull the sweater down over her shoulder and thus expose the strap but that could be just me. At some point as you learn things mentioned here you might think about adding fill flash. Flash would also help separate her from the background. But them main purpose would be to light the face better.



I was more worried about the cropped hands to be honest.  With the sweater off the shoulder, it'd be a cool shot if you hid the strap, and then angled that shoulder towards the camera, instead of having the shoulders square with the camera.


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## Heather Koch (Oct 16, 2014)

Rick50 said:


> The 2nd one in #16 looks pretty good. I don't think I would pull the sweater down over her shoulder and thus expose the strap but that could be just me. At some point as you learn things mentioned here you might think about adding fill flash. Flash would also help separate her from the background. But them main purpose would be to light the face better.



Flash is definitely on my list of "To Gets" I just don't have to means to purchase one at this time.  I just used what I was dealt and went with it


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## BrickHouse (Oct 16, 2014)

I think you're taking very good starting photographs, they just end up feeling over-processed in most of these. This woman is gorgeous and has such wonderful skin tones to begin with, plus you've got her in some beautiful scenery that really pops with color. My 2 cents would be to let the beauty of the model and the setting speak for itself. Work a little bit on the above technical points, but mostly let your photo-taking skill shine without burying it in poor post-processing.


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## Heather Koch (Oct 16, 2014)

BrickHouse said:


> I think you're taking very good starting photographs, they just end up feeling over-processed in most of these. This woman is gorgeous and has such wonderful skin tones to begin with, plus you've got her in some beautiful scenery that really pops with color. My 2 cents would be to let the beauty of the model and the setting speak for itself. Work a little bit on the above technical points, but mostly let your photo-taking skill shine without burying it in poor post-processing.



I completely agree with you.  I have learned just so much these past few days.  Looking back I already dislike some of them and re-edited (un-edited) them.  I am only learning and I appreciate everyones advice! It will only help me in the future!!


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## BrickHouse (Oct 16, 2014)

I think where you're starting from is phenomenally better than most. The nit-pick critiques above should tell you that. If the photo is so good that the thing that stands out is the little stuff, then that should speak volumes about your shooting. With the help of the portrait gurus on this site, you'll continue to improve in leaps and bounds. Just try not to let the heavy post-processing impede the audiences ability to see what a great photo you've taken.


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## Heather Koch (Oct 16, 2014)

Amen. Thank you so much for that!!  I am a perfectionist so I can stare at a photo for hours, and hearing the little things is what needs work, is a blessing in disguise.  I strive to do my best and good critique are always nice 

Thanks again everyone, I appreciate everyones thoughts and take everything into consideration.


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## Heather Koch (Oct 16, 2014)

I also know now that photoshop isn't to make the pictures, but to adjust and enhance them.  Thats the designer in me that wants to change everything...


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## Designer (Oct 16, 2014)

You're all over the spectrum with white balance and saturation.  NONE of these look natural to me. 

IMO I think you should try to make them appear normal, and all the same normal.


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## vintagesnaps (Oct 16, 2014)

I think you might be right that you're looking at your photos so long and working on the processing so long that it's getting overdone. Sometimes the more I mess with something the worse it gets and I have to make myself put it away and come back later - then sometimes I'll come back to it and see right away what needs to be corrected.

I'd work on making sure the camera's focused where it needs to be every time and getting a proper exposure each time, then adjust and enhance as needed from there. You seem to be framing and composing nicely, I'd just watch that you're not framing a little bit high so you don't crop finger tips. Seems like you have an eye for it, just need to keep working on the technical aspects (just don't _over_work the technical part!).


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## Heather Koch (Oct 16, 2014)

vintagesnaps said:


> I think you might be right that you're looking at your photos so long and working on the processing so long that it's getting overdone. Sometimes the more I mess with something the worse it gets and I have to make myself put it away and come back later - then sometimes I'll come back to it and see right away what needs to be corrected.
> 
> I'd work on making sure the camera's focused where it needs to be every time and getting a proper exposure each time, then adjust and enhance as needed from there. You seem to be framing and composing nicely, I'd just watch that you're not framing a little bit high so you don't crop finger tips. Seems like you have an eye for it, just need to keep working on the technical aspects (just don't _over_work the technical part!).



Yeah that is exactly what I do too.  I get so excited to finish all my photos I want to edit them all in one sitting.  I've learned I have to do 3 or 4 at a time then come back and do more.

This was the first time I was actually pleased with the RAW results from my camera (doing portraits), I did a lot of research on settings and what not for "model" photography.  I had it in single focus mode but found my camera focusing elsewhere sometimes so had to change it, I think that is where the focus problem lies.  I need to learn more about that.

Thanks!!!


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## BrickHouse (Oct 16, 2014)

Another recommendation would be to do batch edits with something like LR for your basic global edits like sharpening, contrast, white balance, etc, then put them away and come back to them a few at a time for any individual edits, etc. Then you have the whole series looking consistent (as Designer mentioned) but can do further work with fresh eyes as you feel. LR makes this incredibly easy.


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## Heather Koch (Oct 16, 2014)

I love LightRoom, I use that for my adjustments.  I just bought it back in the summer so still learning what all it can do. Thats a good idea to do the general adjustments first then come back.  Makes it easier on the eyes!


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## Heather Koch (Oct 17, 2014)

QUESTION:

Should I start charging people a small fee?  Since this shoot I've had several people want me to photograph them?


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## kdthomas (Oct 17, 2014)

Heather Koch said:


> QUESTION:
> Should I start charging people a small fee?  Since this shoot I've had several people want me to photograph them?



FWIW I've been thinking about semi-pro as well. The advice I've heard, is NOT to undercut, but to charge whatever the rate is in your market. That way it doesn't drag the market down, and then you avoid the situation of having to "come up" to the market rate, and having to justify a price increase.

Myself, I'm waiting to build my skills and equipment up a little bit, maybe get some friends to model for me, get all my dumb mistakes out of the way first


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## Designer (Oct 17, 2014)

Heather Koch said:


> QUESTION:
> 
> Should I start charging people a small fee?  Since this shoot I've had several people want me to photograph them?



Oh, sure, why not?  Even though your skill is not yet up to the professional level, if people want to pay you then go for it.


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## Heather Koch (Oct 17, 2014)

I was thinking a $25 fee, then if they want printed pictures charge them, depending on size, for those instead of the $25 fee?


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## Heather Koch (Oct 17, 2014)

Here are a few more I did on the car ride to Chicago...




DET_1526orig by heather.koch43, on Flickr




DET_1653orig by heather.koch43, on Flickr




DET_1682orig by heather.koch43, on Flickr


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## vintagesnaps (Oct 17, 2014)

Good grief, not 25 bucks! lol If you really want to do this, do your 'homework' first so you can be successful.

These three look like you're getting the subject posed nicely and getting the photos framed and composed but the technical part seems to be what you could still work on. The first one is so dark, I think you need to get consistently good quality with your portraits.

I'd suggest you take time to figure out your pricing, see what other portrait photographers in your area charge etc. so you can price within range, not underpriced. But your portraits need to be the quality that you can compete with other photographers and provide good quality portraits that people are wiling to pay the going rate for. I think people tend to 'like' just about anything and everything, and sure they'll take photos for free or next to nothing, but will they book sessions and pay?

It might be worth spending some more time developing your skills and meanwhile look into everything that will go into doing portraits - deposits, contracts, releases, insurance, etc. What will you do if they drag their feet paying? (if you give them photos I don't know that there's any getting them back if they never pay the full amount they owe). How will you handle it if they keep wanting to cancel/reschedule? (get that covered in the contract...) What will you do if they don't like the photos? (you don't need one pissed off person trashing you all over the place before you even get this off the ground).

Try ASMP or PPA for info. for professional photographers, sample forms, etc. American Society of Media Photographers You seem to have a lot of enthusiasm if you can direct that into developing your skills further and in getting yourself set up in business in a way that you can enjoy it and be successful.


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## Designer (Oct 18, 2014)

I think your vision, pose, and frame are good, just work on the technicals.

Just for grins & giggles I made a few adjustments to this one:






It certainly could be better, but I am not the most expert at editing, and had only the small JPG file


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## Heather Koch (Oct 18, 2014)

Yeah that one seems a lot darker than on LR, thats another thing to figure out lol.  Thanks Sharon for all your helpful information, I will definitely look in that.  Though I was never "into" portraits I think I may have to start there and work my way to where I want to be.

Thanks again everyone!


There will be more photos coming soon


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## Heather Koch (Oct 20, 2014)

Heres the last bit of the photo shoot...




DET_1542orig by heather.koch43, on Flickr




DET_1548orig by heather.koch43, on Flickr




DET_1549orig by heather.koch43, on Flickr




DET_1556-2orig by heather.koch43, on Flickr




DET_1556B&amp;W by heather.koch43, on Flickr




DET_1593orig by heather.koch43, on Flickr


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## fotomonkey (Oct 20, 2014)

I didn't have anything to do tonight so I got frisky.  This is pretty crappy since it loses a lot turning it into a gif but maybe you'll get the idea. I don't know if you processed the first image or not but the colors seemed off.

1. Removed color cast.
2. Adjusted depth a little with curves adjustment.
3. Threw in a hue/saturation adjustment to boost the blues and reds.


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## Heather Koch (Oct 20, 2014)

The first image of the thread was processed, I "toned down" the colors to make it between black and white and full color.  At the time I liked the edit, but as you can see I stopped with that edit through the thread...


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## Heather Koch (Oct 20, 2014)

OKAY, I just purchased a 5 in 1 pack of reflectors (translucent, silver, gold, white, and black).  I didn't purchase a stand I'll use my sister as a stand for now 

Silly question... How to use the reflector properly? And when to use each color?


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## fotomonkey (Oct 20, 2014)

Gotcha.

Re: reflector, this might help.


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## Tabe (Oct 21, 2014)

Photos in #38 are a LOT better than the earlier ones.  Much more natural, better focus.  Not crazy about the arm raised poses but the first and last photos in that post are good.  Especially like the last one (leaning against the tree).  I think you might still benefit from a wider aperture to blur out the background.


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## Heather Koch (Oct 21, 2014)

Thank you!!  Yeah the arm raised was a stretch but I don't mind it.  As for the aperture how do I manually change that and keep it that way without auto changing?  I've googled it and am not sure if I did it properly.


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## fotomonkey (Oct 21, 2014)

Set your camera to aperture priority or manual. If you choose the former the aperture will stay fixed and the shutter speed will change to maintain a "proper" exposure. If you choose the latter you'll have to make both choices.


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## Heather Koch (Oct 21, 2014)

I believe I had it in aperture mode doing this shoot.  I just adjusted the exposure when needed.  I'll have to investigate my camera, I have a family shoot this Sunday.  So I will need to fix that.


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## 4rum (Oct 22, 2014)

First set (indoor, standing), somewhere between shot one and two would work better for me.


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## Tabe (Oct 22, 2014)

Heather Koch said:


> Thank you!!  Yeah the arm raised was a stretch but I don't mind it.  As for the aperture how do I manually change that and keep it that way without auto changing?  I've googled it and am not sure if I did it properly.


You'll need to be either in manual mode or in aperture priority mode (Av on a Canon, for example).  On my Canon T4i, I have to just hit a button and turn a dial to change the aperture.


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## Heather Koch (Oct 22, 2014)

I think the Nikon is a bit more complicated than that, but I could be wrong, will have to investigate.

Thanks!


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## Tabe (Oct 22, 2014)

At least on a D3200, it's the same as the Canon - hold down a button and turn a dial.


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## Heather Koch (Oct 22, 2014)

Tabe said:


> At least on a D3200, it's the same as the Canon - hold down a button and turn a dial.


You know what you're right!  I did some research for the manual and found the easier way to adjust it...


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## Tabe (Oct 22, 2014)

Heather Koch said:


> Tabe said:
> 
> 
> > At least on a D3200, it's the same as the Canon - hold down a button and turn a dial.
> ...


WHOO!  I helped someone!


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