# Sooooooooooooo depressing!



## tirediron (Nov 14, 2016)

For the first time in probably close to a year, I got to the "other" bricks & mortar camera store in Victoria.  It's not my regular store, mostly because it's way downtown and surrounded by almost no parking at all but it was always a good source for pretty much everything you need.  I'm guessing they must have been undergone a management change because other than a couple of Manfrotto tripods, and the usual assortment of lenses & bodies, almost all of the accessories, which used to cover a wide range of brands, have been replaced by the full line of "Promaster"; everything from lights to softboxes, clamps, filters, brackets...  Aside from the fact that I suspect I've spend my last dollar there, the big issue I have is that this is [at best] low-grade mediocre MiC stuff being sold at brand-name prices!  Oh... and they now carry a full line of selfie-sticks too.  Excuse me while I go cry quietly in my beer!


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## Ysarex (Nov 14, 2016)

Thought this was going to be a thread about our recent elections. Sorry about your camera store. I just bought a new body about 3 weeks ago (Fuji X-T2) and I bought it from our local brick and motar store for exactly this reason.

Joe


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## EIngerson (Nov 14, 2016)

Damn.....R.I.P.


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## Gary A. (Nov 15, 2016)

Ysarex said:


> Thought this was going to be a thread about our recent elections. Sorry about your camera store. I just bought a new body about 3 weeks ago (Fuji X-T2) and I bought it from our local brick and motar store for exactly this reason.
> 
> Joe


I purchase all my stuff from 'my' brick & mortar store even though it's 40 minutes away.  Samy's is closer, but I like the service and the people at OC Camera.

The closest "real" camera store to me is Monty's in Whittier.  Decades ago, they were pretty complete with full lines of Nikon, Pentax, Canon cameras and lenses, chemicals and papers ... the whole enchilada. I went in last week and I felt as if I walked into an autopsy.  Everything seemed just piled up ... the piles were held together with dust.  The wasn't a digital camera in the whole place, the better film cameras were not for sale, they were part of a collection. I bought some D-76 and Fixer and asked how old they were, "About Two Years" was the reply.  I was the sole person in the store, I took my time looking under all the dust and through all the piles.  Nobody came in during that time.  I asked the clerk, an older guy, dressed sadly used clothing, if he was Monty. He said "No, I'm son of Monty." At the cash register I spotted a few drawers filled with those little print bags.  "Is that what keeps the doors open?" I asked. "That and custom printing and retouching", said Son of Monty.


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## Didereaux (Nov 15, 2016)

tirediron said:


> For the first time in probably close to a year, I got to the "other" bricks & mortar camera store in Victoria.  It's not my regular store, mostly because it's way downtown and surrounded by almost no parking at all but it was always a good source for pretty much everything you need.  I'm guessing they must have been undergone a management change because other than a couple of Manfrotto tripods, and the usual assortment of lenses & bodies, almost all of the accessories, which used to cover a wide range of brands, have been replaced by the full line of "Promaster"; everything from lights to softboxes, clamps, filters, brackets...  Aside from the fact that I suspect I've spend my last dollar there, the big issue I have is that this is [at best] low-grade mediocre MiC stuff being sold at brand-name prices!  Oh... and they now carry a full line of selfie-sticks too.  Excuse me while I go cry quietly in my beer!




as the world economy continues to slow (for 1st world) these sorts of stores will be gone quickly.  Problem is the net result is one less local store.


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## Frank F. (Nov 15, 2016)

Camera stores? Gosh. We used to have the worst camera stores in Bonn until Michael at Foto Brell decided that his pricing model kept people out of the shop. It was: RSP plus 20 Euros. Stupid. 

Now he is more successful. He charges internet average plus 20 Euros and sells some not too cheap acessoires to add some profit and he has a great feeling what you might like and has it in his drawer when you come in. No waiting. Walk in. Decide. Have some really knowledgable people there to help. Pay. Go.

If Michael is not there I drive to Cologne. They have a lot of great stores there. My favourite is Lambertin Pro Store at Wallraffplatz. They serve the Photo Agencies. At times they have 30 of the last before current one digit Nikons in the window. You want some exotic 2000 Euro prime? They probably have 3 of them plus 5 used ones....


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## astroNikon (Nov 15, 2016)

I didn't know they made selfie sticks for a D5?

There used to be a wide range of camera stores in my area.  Now there's only 2 but in the expensive part of town.


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## tirediron (Nov 15, 2016)

I don't think I've ever seen another independent retail store go completely to one brand; there were a couple of Manfrotto tripods, and of course a [barely] passable selection of bodies & lenses, but aside from that, almost everything was "Promaster".  Lights, modifiers, batteries, filters...  knock-off super clamps and magic arms..  everything was this one brand.  They must have one hell of a mark-up on that stuff!


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## Gary A. (Nov 15, 2016)

astroNikon said:


> I didn't know they made selfie sticks for a D5?
> 
> There used to be a wide range of camera stores in my area.  Now there's only 2 but in the expensive part of town.


Yep, they're called a Manfrotto.


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## Gary A. (Nov 15, 2016)

I've been wanting to open up a little coffee-tea-beer-wine bar.  I might make Son-of-Monty an offer.  I think he owns the store.


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## tirediron (Nov 15, 2016)

Gary A. said:


> I've been wanting to open up a little coffee-tea-beer-wine bar.  I might make Son-of-Monty an offer.  I think he owns the store.


Yeahbut... won't you just drink all your stock and be out of business by the end of the week?


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## Big Mike (Nov 15, 2016)

I worked the Edmonton Photographic Trade Show (like I do every year) a couple weeks ago.

Promaster always has a display set up and yeah, it just looks like a bunch of cheap Chinese crap, without the benefit of an attractive price.


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## tirediron (Nov 15, 2016)

Big Mike said:


> I worked the Edmonton Photographic Trade Show (like I do every year) a couple weeks ago.
> 
> Promaster always has a display set up and yeah, it just looks like a bunch of cheap Chinese crap, without the benefit of an attractive price.


If I'm going to buy something like that, I'll get it on flea-bay at 1/4 of the price!


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## Frank F. (Nov 15, 2016)

Gary A. said:


> I've been wanting to open up a little coffee-tea-beer-wine bar.  I might make Son-of-Monty an offer.  I think he owns the store.



The dust and cameras for decoration left in place?


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## smoke665 (Nov 15, 2016)

I had the opposite experience. Last year Wolf Camera was an empty building, with processing being about it. When I commented on it the manager told me to not forget him, because he was trying desperately to get Corporate to give him inventory. Fast forward I dropped by last week , what a difference. The shelves were starting to fill up with a wide assortment cameras, lenses, accessories and lighting from low end to high. one corner of the large showroom had been blocked off for classes and demonstrations. Talked to the same manager who was like a kid in a toy store as he talked about what they had achieved and what was to come. Apparently it's been successful as his only problem so far is getting the shelves restocked fast enough. Thier prices are a little higher than the cut rate online sights, but to me it's worth a few bucks more to be able to hold something in my hand.


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## unpopular (Nov 15, 2016)

what is this "brick and mortar" I keep hearing about? is it a popular website? what is the url?

#confusedmillennial


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## TCampbell (Nov 15, 2016)

I used to have three "real" camera stores in my metro area... one in my current town near the south end of the metro area, one in a town near the north end of the metro area, and another north of town -- but a bit farther east.  

One of them had to close when the owner of their building decided they weren't making enough on the lease and raised the rates.  The camera shop couldn't afford the new rates and closed up.  That building has been empty ever since (so the landlord really screwed themselves going from making "some" money to making "no" money).  The other stores declined and I'd say they're "ok" but not great.  They tend to stock popular items but it seemed like a lot of what I'd look for were in the "we can get it" but they didn't actually have it (I understanding... hanging on to inventory that isn't moving is expensive.)

Meanwhile a new camera store popped up on Google maps in a town not far from me (on the west side of the city... but only about 20 minutes from where I live).  I went over to check them out and their store is impressive... so far they actually have everything I've wanted "in stock" and they have a LOT of options.  As such, I try to buy from them as often as possible because I like having a store that can stay in business and actually carries what I need.

No ding on the big internet shops but I can't walk into the big internet shops if I want to put my hands on the gear to evaluate it before I buy it.


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## smoke665 (Nov 15, 2016)

The one thing that Wolf seems to be capitalizing on with the store I mentioned is the avalability of the classes and the "hands on" demonstrations. it's like they're raising a new crop of customers every week. Being able to look, touch and try an expensive piece of equipment is a great selling point


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## tirediron (Nov 15, 2016)

smoke665 said:


> The one thing that Wolf seems to be capitalizing on with the store I mentioned is the avalability of the classes and the "hands on" demonstrations. it's like they're raising a new crop of customers every week. Being able to look, touch and try an expensive piece of equipment is a great selling point


Makes sense to me... I'm always willing to pay a little extra for a hands-on, not to mention a real, physical location to return to if there's a problem!


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## Derrel (Nov 15, 2016)

PDX is small, like the 28th largest city in the USA...we have Pro Photo Supply, which has a wide,wide assortment of cool stuff for sale, plus the state's largest rental inventory. Lots of Canon, Nikon, various mirrorless cameras and lenses, large assortment of Tamron lenses for camera-maker cameras, some Sigma ART primes, the new 200-500 and 150-600 type zoom, lot of used older-gen pro gear Hasselblad, Mamiya, Leica, other film-era gear sold used,mostly. Higher-end consignment stuff is neat to look at, in-person or on-line.Oregon has NO sales tax to any buyers. One of the few states with NO states sales tax. Pro Photo Supply is a far cry from the son-of-Monty store. but I really feel for the independent camera stores...they have had a very tough time the last 15 years.

I really DISLIKE buying from the Big 5 internet vendors.


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## Gary A. (Nov 15, 2016)

tirediron said:


> Gary A. said:
> 
> 
> > I've been wanting to open up a little coffee-tea-beer-wine bar.  I might make Son-of-Monty an offer.  I think he owns the store.
> ...


My contribution to stock turnover will keep all the booze fresh.


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## Gary A. (Nov 15, 2016)

Derrel said:


> PDX is small, like the 28th largest city in the USA...we have Pro Photo Supply, which has a wide,wide assortment of cool stuff for sale, plus the state's largest rental inventory. Lots of Canon, Nikon, various mirrorless cameras and lenses, large assortment of Tamron lenses for camera-maker cameras, some Sigma ART primes, the new 200-500 and 150-600 type zoom, lot of used older-gen pro gear Hasselblad, Mamiya, Leica, other film-era gear sold used,mostly. Higher-end consignment stuff is neat to look at, in-person or on-line.Oregon has NO sales tax to any buyers. One of the few states with NO states sales tax. Pro Photo Supply is a far cry from the son-of-Monty store. but I really feel for the independent camera stores...they have had a very tough time the last 15 years.
> 
> I really DISLIKE buying from the Big 5 internet vendors.


While OC Camera carries Nikon, Canon, Sony, Fuji, et al ... I think it derives the bulk of its revenues from internet sales centered on used Leica equipment.


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## smoke665 (Nov 15, 2016)

If you're ever in Atlanta and have couple of hours to spare check out Wings Camera just off I85. They buy a lot of Estates, so most of what I saw was used but a lot of high end. Easy to spend a couple hours browsing and talking with the owner.


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## Derrel (Nov 15, 2016)

Gary A. said:
			
		

> While OC Camera carries Nikon, Canon, Sony, Fuji, et al ... I think it derives the bulk of its revenues from internet sales centered on used Leica equipment.



Yeah, they might...from what I see, sales are still pretty good for used Leica cameras, lenses, and accessories. Such wonderfully made stuff! Although these days it is hard to find in many places, Leica  gear does have a very faithful following: made to last, made for quality over price...real old-fashioned craftsmanship!


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## Frank F. (Nov 16, 2016)

I like to try things I only heared about and sometimes I buy things because the temptation is overwhelming. A reason to avoid camera stores but also a reason to avoid ebay and amazon...


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## Gary A. (Nov 16, 2016)

Derrel said:


> Gary A. said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He is very careful with his Leica stock.  The real good stuff is stored in a giant safe and he makes sure the serial number on the box matches the camera, et cetera.

Recently, I purchased a M4P from OC Camera.  All my photog friends were amazed at the construction.


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## tirediron (Nov 16, 2016)

Nice to know that quality still matters to a [very] few!


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## Derrel (Nov 16, 2016)

All-Promaster inventory..sounds like the place is on very thin financial footing.


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## tirediron (Nov 16, 2016)

Derrel said:


> All-Promaster inventory..sounds like the place is on very thin financial footing.


That's my guess.  25 years ago they were THE place to go outside of Vancouver.  They carried EVERYTHING, and top names as well as 'consumer-grade' stuff.  The staff used to be VERY knowledgeable and could offer advice on lighting, lenses, bodies, techniques...  now I don't think there's a serious photographer in the bunch.


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## jcdeboever (Nov 16, 2016)

Derrel said:


> All-Promaster inventory..sounds like the place is on very thin financial footing.



Almost every single camera store I go into has a huge PM inventory. The only one that doesn't is a little camera store in Dearborn, MI where he thrives on used stuff. Lot's of high end film stuff too.


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## smoke665 (Nov 16, 2016)

Not sure about other cities out there, but the advent of ever increasing sales tax is a major hindrance to brick and mortar business in my area. So many of the internet sites have a built in price advantage of 10% or more, because they ship it tax free.   If the states manage to impose that tax collection on the internet sites I think you'll start to see a movement back to retail locations.


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## tirediron (Nov 16, 2016)

smoke665 said:


> Not sure about other cities out there, but the advent of ever increasing sales tax is a major hindrance to brick and mortar business in my area. So many of the internet sites have a built in price advantage of 10% or more, because they ship it tax free.   If the states manage to impose that tax collection on the internet sites I think you'll start to see a movement back to retail locations.


I think a bigger issue is the sheer cost of maintaining a retail location in an urban center as opposed to an anonymous warehouse on the outskirts of Lower Gumboot Junction.  Even in Victoria, retail space can run well north of $10/sq ft/month and I suspect in place like New York it must be even higher...


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## smoke665 (Nov 16, 2016)

@tirediron and there's that, but I've noticed that on the bigger ticket items the internet sites are not "substantially" lower than the retail sites when you account for the sales tax. If they're shipping for free then they have a cost of shipping to factor in. Products that are small in size and high in price benefit more from the sales tax advantage than larger more costly to ship items.


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## unpopular (Nov 16, 2016)

Derrel said:


> PDX is small, like the 28th largest city in the USA..



"Portland is a small town! REALLY WE ARE!! I have the statistics to prove it! Hillsborough, Beavertown and the rest of the 1.5-million suburbanites aren't *really* Portland!! WE'RE A SMALL TOWN DAMNIT!!!!!" 

Oh Portland. I love you and your denial.


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## JustJazzie (Nov 16, 2016)

Sounds like you might need something a little stronger than a beer for this one!

Cheers to... 
Wiskey? Gin? Moonshine? 
And to online shopping, where you can shop in your underwear and no one knows you're drunk.


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## thereyougo! (Nov 16, 2016)

Frank F. said:


> Camera stores? Gosh. We used to have the worst camera stores in Bonn until Michael at Foto Brell decided that his pricing model kept people out of the shop. It was: RSP plus 20 Euros. Stupid.
> 
> Now he is more successful. He charges internet average plus 20 Euros and sells some not too cheap acessoires to add some profit and he has a great feeling what you might like and has it in his drawer when you come in. No waiting. Walk in. Decide. Have some really knowledgable people there to help. Pay. Go.
> 
> If Michael is not there I drive to Cologne. They have a lot of great stores there. My favourite is Lambertin Pro Store at Wallraffplatz. They serve the Photo Agencies. At times they have 30 of the last before current one digit Nikons in the window. You want some exotic 2000 Euro prime? They probably have 3 of them plus 5 used ones....



I've been into the Lambertin shop at Köln Dom.  I bought a few Sony lenses back in the day when I had the A900.  I bought the CZ 24 - 70 f/2.8 - great lens - it got stolen in a burglary at my brother in law's house and wasn't insured.  The manager gave me his father's book on postwar Köln.  I've been in since and bought an antique 35mm camera from a Dresden maker which has a waist level finder.


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## smoke665 (Nov 16, 2016)

JustJazzie said:


> Cheers to...
> Wiskey? Gin? Moonshine?
> And to online shopping, where you can shop in your underwear and no one knows you're drunk.



But then the first thing you know you're on FB, then the whole world knows you're drunk, and likely in your underwear. No personal experience - just saying you know


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## JustJazzie (Nov 16, 2016)

smoke665 said:


> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> > Cheers to...
> ...


hmm... If my feed is set to public, can I get a ticket for public intoxication?


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## tirediron (Nov 16, 2016)

JustJazzie said:


> smoke665 said:
> 
> 
> > JustJazzie said:
> ...


'For' or 'to'?


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## Piccell (Nov 16, 2016)

Ysarex said:


> Thought this was going to be a thread about our recent elections. Sorry about your camera store. I just bought a new body about 3 weeks ago (Fuji X-T2) and I bought it from our local brick and motar store for exactly this reason.
> 
> Joe


I didn't think the election was depressing at all. I like living in America and I like our system.

I think a lot of the reason camera stores are failing is because people use them to try things out, get a hands on test of it and then buy from Amazon.
I only bought one camera at a brick and mortar store and when I decided I wanted to exchange for a different, more expensive model, they actually charged me a 10% restocking fee, so I didn't make the larger purchase from them either, I just returned it and had the nicer one delivered the next day for free.


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## Frank F. (Nov 17, 2016)

thereyougo! said:


> I've been into the Lambertin shop at Köln Dom.  I bought a few Sony lenses back in the day when I had the A900.  I bought the CZ 24 - 70 f/2.8 - great lens - it got stolen in a burglary at my brother in law's house and wasn't insured.  The manager gave me his father's book on postwar Köln.  I've been in since and bought an antique 35mm camera from a Dresden maker which has a waist level finder.



Yes, they have 2 main stores. The Lambertin on the Dome platform facing the train station and the Lambertin Professional at Walraffplatz, both are great shops. But if you want to see dream equipment in used and new by the dozen, go to Wallraffplatz, just 2 Minutes from the Dome: http://www.foto-lambertin.de/store/pages/zeiten.asp


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## thereyougo! (Nov 17, 2016)

Yes, I have been in both.  Looked at a B+W polariser before I bought a Lee one and winced at the price.


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## minicoop1985 (Nov 19, 2016)

My local brick and mortars have all sorts of Promaster stuff. I have some Promaster CF cards because I didn't know any better, but at least my localest (if that's a word) still carries mostly non-Promaster stuff.


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## tirediron (Nov 19, 2016)

minicoop1985 said:


> My local brick and mortars have all sorts of Promaster stuff. I have some Promaster CF cards because I didn't know any better, but at least my localest (if that's a word) still carries mostly non-Promaster stuff.


Lucky bastich!


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