# Freelance Jobs for Minors = Illegal?



## Shutterbug (Feb 13, 2005)

Here's an interesting tidbit - 

As many of you know, I'm a rare case of an under 18 professional photographer. I started a few years ago, and now I've made a fairly decent name for myself, not to mention a very strong book for someone my age. 

Well, on Thursday I got stopped by the woman that works in my High School Career Center, and was yoinked into her office.

I got seriously chewed out, mainly because I'm working without a work permit, something that exists to add another element of control over fairly self-sustaining teenagers. The problem is that since I'm freelancing, I can't GET a work permit - They are only good for salary jobs.

When I told her that my grades are fine (3.7 GPA), and I pointed out that my photography was obviously not getting in the way of my schoolwork... That I was just doing it now to make money for college and to get a resume going before I go to college, I got yelled at for talking back, and that freelance jobs aren't available to people my age due to "legal constraints". I mentioned that by that logic, a kid couldn't mow someones lawn for 5 bucks, because that is work without a permit, too.

Well, the lecture I got from her after that was pretty much "the work permit exists so you won't get injured or cheated out of your money" (Which is a crappy argument given I make about 35 dollars an hour on a job, three times as much as the normal high schooler, and that I've never been injured...)

Simply put, they want to stop my career from progressing until I'm 18. I've been told that I'll get an In-House suspension every time I'm caught working without a permit again and that any one who employs me will be subject to legal action.

So, I'm not totally sure what to do in this situation. I could keep working, and take it to the school board/county courts, or I could just put my photo career on pause and work on the fine art stuff I do for fun. 

Meh... Any thoughts?


----------



## PreludeX (Feb 13, 2005)

keep working and research!!!!! goto public records and what not and look up laws.. if you dont see it in the law books.. sue....  35 an hour? not bad.. how many hours.... my last two jobs were about 1900 dollars a day plus expenses which takes care of college and equipment


----------



## Jess (Feb 13, 2005)

Check your local law books.

In Califonria one only needs a work permit if they are under 15. Legal working age is 16, no permit required.

Also, check to see if the school is even within their legal rights to suspend you for actions taken not on their property. For instance, can they suspend you if you steal a car, or rob a liquor store? Why would they be able to do so based on where you work? (If they can't ... :evil: file a complaint with the school that the councelor is harassing and theatening you.)

Stop discussing your contracts at school, make sure your friends and family do not discuss it at school or with anyone who might pass the information to that councelor. - This is the simplest solution.

I myself am a witch and I would see how I could make life hell for that councelor for screwing around with me, lol.


----------



## GerryDavid (Feb 13, 2005)

Shutter, what does you working have to do with school anywase?  You should go to the police department and ask them.  You may have to go to a lawyer.  And if you find out the school is overstepping thier grounds, you should talk to the newspapers.  Who knows, they may want to interview you, and you would get free publicity and the school a black eye.  :0)


----------



## Time to Get Moving (Feb 13, 2005)

How did they find out? 

and:


> In Califonria one only needs a work permit if they are under 15. Legal working age is 16, no permit required.



I thought it was till 17 and a half? Where I'm from thats what it is. (I live near LA.)


----------



## Shutterbug (Feb 13, 2005)

Time to Get Moving said:
			
		

> How did they find out?



One of my clients lost my contact information and dropped off my payment at school, and unfortunatly got interrogated by some official. I'm not sure how they found out the other jobs though :\

And yeah, I live in California. I think it's 17 and a half. I still have 5 months to go before then :\


----------



## spike000 (Feb 13, 2005)

Don't tell anyone - work cash in hand and give out very few details about yourself.  It's worked for me in harder places than the US!!!!

Tell the school where to go - none of their business if it is all off their property and out of their time.

Oh - and smile a lot at everyone and look confused if they say that you might be doing anything illegal.  

Good luck

Spike


----------



## Jess (Feb 13, 2005)

Yes, I think your right actually sorry. I was thinking of a different restriction... lol, you aren't allowed to use a knife at your place of work under 15. I remember now that I needed a permit to get my job at 16 or 17 tho.

Anyway, child actors do it, there must be a legal way for any other kid to. Fight em w/ the law.


----------



## Rogue Monk (Feb 13, 2005)

Your main thing should be to find out if its within there right to suspend you for working. So long as you're making your grades and not dropping your studies, I can't see how they could. And if they do, you file a grievence with the school board or take it to the media (nobody likes bad press, but I'd use this as last resort...no need to make anyone angrier than they are).

Next file for a work permit. It shouldn't matter that you're freelance. Go in and talk to someone face to face. Be pleasant and layer on the charm. If you do, you'll find they'll flex the application form to make it work.

Once you've applied (don't wait till you have the actual permit in hand...you should have a copy of the permit application at least), go show it to the councillor. If they're still being ornery, take it to a higher power (show the art/photo teacher what you've done. get them on your side too). Agian, don't assign blame. Just explain the facts and what you are doing to solve the issues. Explain that you can't give up your current contracts (make it up if you have to...something about 25% deposits being paid in advance...not that I'm telling you to lie or anything...). Ask them to be lenient while the paperwork processes.

And then do what lawyers do. Tie it up in paperwork. If you get turned down, you immediatly apply again. Differ for as long as you can. You should be able to get 6 months or so from that.

If you avoid the problem, it'll get worse. But if you take it head on and do everything you can, someone will help you out.


----------



## Time to Get Moving (Feb 13, 2005)

the problem is, with getting a permit, you have to have a stationary job, and he's working for other people, so on his permit it is supposed to only cover one job.


----------



## Rogue Monk (Feb 13, 2005)

Time to Get Moving said:
			
		

> the problem is, with getting a permit, you have to have a stationary job, and he's working for other people, so on his permit it is supposed to only cover one job.



That isn't a problem...only a hurdle. If he talks with someone and explains his story, they should at least be able to recommend what steps he can take.

Don't let them brush you off. You need to ask "Considering that I can't/won't quit working, what other options can I persue? What have people done in the past when confronted with this situation? What has worked/failed for them? Can I use that to my advantage? What do you recommend at this time?"

If they say to quit when asked that last question, talk to someone else. Keep talking--they can't ignore you forever.

I don't want to push the "One voice can make a difference" ideology, but sometimes you have to say the same thing twenty times before people start taking you seriously...and the sad fast is that unless you stay with it, they will ignore you due to your "minor" status.

If you never walk away from the conversation without having another piece of the puzzle that gets you what you need, you'll always know your next course of action.

It might not be easy, but it will be necessary (unless you want to put your livelihood on hold for six or more months).


----------



## Kodan_Txips (Feb 14, 2005)

One thing that springs to mind, especially from the comment about child actors, is the involvement of your parents in all this.  Maybe it is possible to get some sort of legal form drawn up that states something along the lines of  "My child is not a brainless jerk, he is a career professional earning  more than any school counsellor would ever dream of, and he has my full support"

Joking aside, you often need parental or guardian permission to...  get married, join the forces etc   at a young age, so maybe such permission would help get you a freelance work permit.  And if parents don't co-operate, offer them a bottle of Jack Daniels for every 1000 dollars worth of work.


----------



## Kodan_Txips (Feb 14, 2005)

Another thing that I just thought of.  Why not set up a dummy company, with a parent, or trustworthy adult as director, and you work for them.  Divert the legal onus to an adult somehow.


----------



## Artemis (Feb 14, 2005)

The school cant do that..in my opinion, their bluffing.

Ive found the best way for the situation, as someone else said...layer on the charm.
Every harsh word the councellor gives at you, be completely polite and political.
For example, if they say you are an idiot or something, say something like
"I find that statement offensive, however, I will try and explain my situation to you"
(Plus bring a tape recorder )

And I got a question for you!!!! How did you get this far at 17? Im 16 and im trying to get at the stage your at...any help would be REALLY appreciated, as...gathering from this especially, its not easy to get this far at our age...and ive only really done minor free work.... Please help me!


----------



## sbalsama (Feb 14, 2005)

Defy them.

Deviation is the root of existence (heh, in my eyes) and any guidance/career counselor deserves to be fought against. I've had my fair share of crap from them, and I feel it's because they're jealous that they didn't go as far as some of their students did. You're doing an excellent thing and I'm jealous of you too, so keep it up and don't let some school get in the way.


----------



## Rob (Feb 14, 2005)

Much of the advice above has been said from the point of view of an adult.

Personally, I am going to disagree with mostly everyone and say that you should make peace with your school, progress your education in the normal manner and perfect your photography and artistic skills as an amateur. Any other advice is quite clearly irresponsible.

The school are not bluffing, institutions don't like wild-cards, maverics, or whatever name you wish to use. You are in a legally ambiguous status for working. Do not throw away your hard academic work so far just to make a point about a part-time hobby income.

If your parents support you and can attest to your ability and potential, then they will be best placed to advise you and to give you assistance. If not, you should wait until you are an academic adult.

Continue your schooling, and at 18 (or whenever your school finishes), consider doing a degree in photography. If it means so much to you, the odd $30 here and there is irrelevant. If you have the talent now, how much better will you be when you have a degree-level qualification and proper tuition?

This advice may not apply to you personally, but I didn't know what I wanted at 16/17/18, and any adult who advises you a course of action which limits or places at risk your academic career is a fool.

Rob


----------



## Artemis (Feb 14, 2005)

robhesketh said:
			
		

> Much of the advice above has been said from the point of view of an adult.
> 
> Personally, I am going to disagree with mostly everyone and say that you should make peace with your school, progress your education in the normal manner and perfect your photography and artistic skills as an amateur. Any other advice is quite clearly irresponsible.
> 
> ...


 
I must say this is an incredibly good way at looking at it..and after reading It I think my prior advice was wrong, and I agree


----------



## Rob (Feb 14, 2005)

Artemis said:
			
		

> I must say this is an incredibly good way at looking at it..and after reading It I think my prior advice was wrong, and I agree


 
Thanks Artemis, having re-read what I wrote, it could appear a bit harsh, so I'm glad that someone has agreed with me without taking offence. It's so difficult to effectively communicate when you're not f-t-f!

R


----------



## Jeff Canes (Feb 14, 2005)

Youre just looking at a few months before you turn 18? 
Them Robheskeths subjection maybe the best. 
But if this is going to cost you a lot of dollars for collage.
You may want to setup a *real* company


----------



## Shutterbug (Feb 14, 2005)

robhesketh said:
			
		

> Much of the advice above has been said from the point of view of an adult.
> 
> Personally, I am going to disagree with mostly everyone and say that you should make peace with your school, progress your education in the normal manner and perfect your photography and artistic skills as an amateur. Any other advice is quite clearly irresponsible.
> 
> ...



First off, I make more than 30 bucks here and there. I get at least 5 jobs a month, and I average about 305$ a job. That's more than 1,200$ a month, if I don't have some un-coverable bills I have to pay. 

Secondly, I really want to go to Brooks in Santa Barbara, and they charge 6,200$ a TERM. I really need to make whatever money I can so I can cut down my student loans. I don't want to be paying a bank back until I'm 30.

I just don't see how it's fair to make me stop doing something which isn't harmful to my education (Quite the contrary, given what the money is going to be used for), just because of a piece of paper. 



> And I got a question for you!!!! How did you get this far at 17? Im 16 and im trying to get at the stage your at...any help would be REALLY appreciated, as...gathering from this especially, its not easy to get this far at our age...and ive only really done minor free work.... Please help me!



I think I've explained this to you before 

Simply put: Get your card, book, and butt out there and get whoever you can to look at your book. Do some free promo tiny-jobs if you have to if it'll help you get a foundation for a resume, and once you have those things, go through the yellow pages and put together a list of every phone number and company that could have anything to do with the type of photography you're interested in.

For me, that was every Small Business, Winery, Ad Agency, PR Office, Cosmetic Store, and Performing Arts studio within 50 miles. Then you just call every. single. one of them. Be as polite as you can, and most of all, if they say no, don't take it personally. 

If you get a job, just do it well. The best way to get more jobs is to do your current one well and get a great review. Even if it's shooting something you really don't like, do it absolutly fantastic. 

Your age is a good thing - It brings an element to the table that other photograhers don't have anymore. If your work is comparable to theirs, plus your age, you'll get offers pretty regularly. (You can even go as far as I did when I was 16 and call yourself "Boy Photographer", even though it's really lame. )


----------



## Digital Matt (Feb 14, 2005)

I really have to agree with you Shutterbug.  I think it sounds like BS to me.  I started playing music professionally in HS, when I was 14.  Playing gigs several nights a week, often times staying out till 2am or later.  My parents supported me fully, and drove me to gigs until I was 16 and could drive myself.  I had been playing drums since age 3 and it was clear that I was destined to be a musician.  My band director at school let me out of band commitments to play gigs, and he was very supportive.

I'm sorry, but they have no right to interfere with your life outside of school.  If it was affecting your grades, that would be one thing, but even then, if you fail, you fail, and it takes care of itself.  If you want to go on to study photography in college, there's no reason you shouldn't be taking as many gigs in photography and learning as much as you can.

That's my 2 cents.  This country needs to support it's youth a little more and recognize talent at a young age, and nuture it.  If I could have gone to a specialized high school and studied music, I would have.  Kids are supposed to sit through second rate education in this country which stifles their creativity and teaches them to hate the educational system in general.  I'm not talking about every school in the US obviously, but generalizing.  My school was terrible, and turned me off to the educational process.


----------



## Artemis (Feb 14, 2005)

Shutterbug said:
			
		

> First off, I make more than 30 bucks here and there. I get at least 5 jobs a month, and I average about 305$ a job. That's more than 1,200$ a month, if I don't have some un-coverable bills I have to pay.
> 
> Secondly, I really want to go to Brooks in Santa Barbara, and they charge 6,200$ a TERM. I really need to make whatever money I can so I can cut down my student loans. I don't want to be paying a bank back until I'm 30.
> 
> ...


 
Your an inspiration to me! 

So...all the companies..I guess it sounds a brilliantly good idea...but wont I get a bad name for pestering people? and how do you keep going after the 95th no?


----------



## Artemis (Feb 14, 2005)

By the way...do you have MSN or something...just curious...


----------



## Shutterbug (Feb 14, 2005)

> So...all the companies..I guess it sounds a brilliantly good idea...but wont I get a bad name for pestering people? and how do you keep going after the 95th no?



People have been doing random cold calls since Photography became a widely used form of Advertising. 

Also, just don't take any rejections personally. Not every company needs a photographer, for whatever reason. Make a note that they said no and try them again in... lets say 6 months. 

Here's a tip - When you call, don't say "I want a job". In fact, don't even HINT that you want employment. Just ask to speak with their PR person, and see if you can get an appointment to have him look at your portfolio. That is when you discuss jobs - He wouldn't agree to see your book if he didn't need a photographer 

I find the business part to be the easier part (Although tedious). You'd be suprised how hard it can be delivering a shot on schedule when just one minor thing goes wrong.


----------



## rob1116 (Feb 14, 2005)

The concept of a permit to work is completely foreign to me, (Canadian) other than requiring a Social Insurance Number, (collecting taxes, etc.), which I got when I had my first proper job at 13 or 14.

Truth be told, I think your situation shows incredible independant learning and obvious ambition.  If anything, a story like this might land you a small scholarship, or at least be seen positively by admission authorities at a University around here.

Not sure about the system there, but in Canada, it's DEAD easy to setup an official, legal business for such sources of income.  Sure you'd have to pay taxes, (on the stuff you claim, minus all the expense deductions you can legally make)   but being a student you will get most, sometimes all of it back.  

My brother worked damn near full time for the last two years of highschool and during the summers, and managed to save just over $20000 and still pulled mid-90s every term.  

I don't know... I can't see how they can push this if your marks are in order.


----------



## Shutterbug (Feb 15, 2005)

@Rob -

I already do pay taxes (Given I make more than 350$ a year), and all the financial jargon is straight too. Going over everything, I can't seem to find a single good reason why I shouldn't continue with my work, so I figure that I'll ask all my teachers, and if they will all sign something saying they'll support me, I'll just go ahead with it. School is there to give me an education (Even though it's second rate and most of it is total garbage) and as long as I'm meeting (and exceeding) their standards I should get to do whatever I want. After all, it's my free time 

Thanks everyone.


----------



## Rob (Feb 15, 2005)

It sounds like you know what you want, and where you're going! Good luck with everything and remember us when you're the next Lichfield or Bailey.

Rob


----------



## fadingaway1986 (Feb 15, 2005)

Wow... 17 and a half? We can work here at 14 & 9 months. (and I was illegally working before that)

I honestly don't think the school can do much... Get your parents to write a nasty note. Make the school afraid of your parents... My mum always stood up for us when the teachers sent notes home... (Mum once wrote on a note telling her that I got a detention that the note was a waste of paper... and sent it back)

Yep... Schools were too afraid to mess with us... 

We didn't threaten them - my mum just let them know who was in charge of her kids.


----------



## ahelg (Feb 15, 2005)

In norway there are three age limits. When your 13 you can do door to door delivery, when your 16 you work longer hours and doing things like shelv staking, when your 18 you can legally to any job that comes to you.


----------



## rob1116 (Feb 15, 2005)

Shutter:  You obviously have a good head on your shoulders.  Maybe I'm too optimistic, but in my limited experience, it is very difficult to get into legal trouble if you simply use good judgment and do what you know to be right.


----------



## steve817 (Feb 15, 2005)

Something is missing from this story. Are you doing this during school hours? On school property? Using school equipment?


----------



## mentos_007 (Feb 15, 2005)

Shutter... If I were you I'd just ignore all the coments from school, they have no right to interfere with your private life! Here it is a different story. You cannot work if you are under 13. Then that is legal to employ teenagers over 13 for part time jobs. When you are 16 you can work in full hours. but I'm far far away 
Btw. I have to congratulate you - I didn't know about your success at being a pro. That is really amazing and I wish you everyting the best in future! I hope I'll be able to see your shots maybe in... National Geographic  or wherever else published


----------



## spike000 (Feb 15, 2005)

At $1200 a month I reckon I could pay off $6200 a term in no time!!!!

If you're that good then charge more and get an agency to pay for your university for you.





I did.



Spike


----------



## Shutterbug (Feb 16, 2005)

steve817 said:
			
		

> Something is missing from this story. Are you doing this during school hours? On school property? Using school equipment?



No on all three counts - I can't do it during daytime (Window in my psedustudio and I expose shots on a barrel), There isn't anyplace to do it at school, and the schools EQ? Thats a laugh  



> I hope I'll be able to see your shots maybe in... National Geographic



Does NG still run ads? I do product work


----------



## PreludeX (Feb 16, 2005)

spike000 said:
			
		

> At $1200 a month I reckon I could pay off $6200 a term in no time!!!!
> 
> If you're that good then charge more and get an agency to pay for your university for you.
> 
> ...


for freelancing thats really good... i still do some freelance in the portrait stage of small companies.. im actually shooting portraits of lawyers tomorrow for a newsletter... I also got 3 Clients here in seattle that i work with.. Mircosoft, Qwest, and Hanjin.... all these i gained from my instructor at school... These pay very well daily... but they take alot of out me because the photos have to be supremely perfect... Problem is, next quarter (1.5 months from now) im gonna be working with even more clients for advertisement, architecture, and portraiture... i dont think im ready yet to have more clients ... shutterbug... congrats on all the work.. its really fun.. being 17 your doing awesome... your on my track, for im only 18...  and enjoy brooks... one of my instructors graduated from there..


----------



## havoc (Feb 16, 2005)

If you pay taxes on your earnings, and you are not working past 11pm. or more then i think 32 hrs a week, then there is nothing they can do. THe school itself can do nothing. Keep doiong what you do until a "real" authorty tells you to stop. You are an artist and many artists have been scwelched for thinking that they can not do what they want to do.


----------



## Christie Photo (Feb 16, 2005)

Are you in the US?  If so, don't worry.  If the harrasment continues, tell them to file charges.  They won't because they can't...  you've broken no law.

Good luck, and pick your battles well... you have to interact with these folks for a bit longer.

-Pete Christie


----------



## GerryDavid (Feb 16, 2005)

I dont suppose you should say to the counsellor "you know my taxes pays your salary" *smirks*.

If its not a bother to get the licence/permit thing, just go for it.  If it is keep putting the counsellor off for 6 months till your 18 and then they have nothing to say.


----------



## Rob (Feb 16, 2005)

havoc said:
			
		

> If you pay taxes on your earnings, and you are not working past 11pm. or more then i think 32 hrs a week, then there is nothing they can do. THe school itself can do nothing. Keep doiong what you do until a "real" authorty tells you to stop. You are an artist and many artists have been scwelched for thinking that they can not do what they want to do.



This is precisely what I was talking about. Go ahead, follow this advice and be made into an example by your school. No, really, anarchy is the way forward. You might end up failing to complete high school and thus failing to enter further education, disappointing your parents and generally ****ing your life up.... but hey, you made a point as an artist, and that's all that counts.


----------



## steve817 (Feb 16, 2005)

robhesketh said:
			
		

> This is precisely what I was talking about. Go ahead, follow this advice and be made into an example by your school. No, really, anarchy is the way forward. You might end up failing to complete high school and thus failing to enter further education, disappointing your parents and generally ****ing your life up.... but hey, you made a point as an artist, and that's all that counts.


 
I have no idea how things are in the UK. Here however the school has zero jurisdiction over what a student does in their time away from school property. But then again we are talking about California, so I could very well be wrong.  I'll word it this way. In most places in the states the job of the school is to educate students not to raise them. That is the parents job 

Speaking of parents, are they aware of this situation? If not it may be time to bring them in. I know that probably not what you want to hear


----------



## Jovian (Feb 16, 2005)

It's not about Anarchy, or being a "Rebel".  It's about life.  You live your life, and do what you love doing along the way.  Just because you didn't know at 16-17-18 what you wanted to do for the rest of your life, that doesn't mean that he doesn't either.
Don't tell anyone that they shouldn't do what they love while they're young, because they're young, and don't listen to anyone who tells you what to do because they're older than you.
I would go to a higher official in the school, ask them what the issue with you working is.  Be polite, and ask them what you can do to keep doing what you are doing, while solving the issue.  Be honest.  This is your career, which you are fortunate enough to be serious enough to be into at this age.  Their role as an educational institution is to help you in your career life...The right people WILL help you, that's what high schools are here to do.  Talk to someone else other than people who are rude to you without talking to you about it.
Don't bring your parents into it.  This is your career.  This is your future, and your school life.  I'm 20, I have been working as a photographer for almost 4 years now, and I will be doing it for the rest of my life.  I have had to prove myself to several clients due to my age. It's part of the game.  Don't let it get you down, just be confident in what you do, and what you want to do


----------



## Shutterbug (Feb 16, 2005)

For those of you wondering - My parents support my work over school. They've always believed the American schoolsystem has been trying to gain more and more control over a child and they've both come to loathe it. On the other hand, I'm doing something that keeps them from paying for gas, insurance, or any other "teen" stuff, as well as setting the foundation for my career to come.

robhesketh - I know what angle you're coming from, and I totally understand it. But conforming just because "They say so" is morally worse than whatever punishent they can deal out. 

And to everyone - I've contacted a lawyer about this - He says that I should write up a letter saying that I am going to continue working and that if the school is going to take action they can, but that they have to be prepared for any legal action we take in defense.


----------



## voodoocat (Feb 16, 2005)

robhesketh said:
			
		

> This is precisely what I was talking about. Go ahead, follow this advice and be made into an example by your school. No, really, anarchy is the way forward. You might end up failing to complete high school and thus failing to enter further education, disappointing your parents and generally ****ing your life up.... but hey, you made a point as an artist, and that's all that counts.


Highschool in the UK is quite a bit different than the public schools here in the US.  Your advice might be useful over there, but this kid is not going to **** up his life by being insubordinate to a counselor.  Guidance counselors are a joke. 

It's awfully humorous to read the "legal" advice given in this thread.  Personally, I would go to an administrator and have them point out where it says you can be suspended for doing freelance work.  Like someone else said, it's not the schools job to raise children.  What you do outside of school (that doesn't interfere with your own or others education) is none of their damn business.  That's between you, your employer and the IRS.


----------



## Contra|Brett| (Feb 17, 2005)

Dear Shutterbug,

I agree with you that your career in photography is something of which your school should be allowed no part.  I offer you advice that you should proceed with the utmost caution on the off chance that your school does decide to phrick your education.  I also feel that your school is swelling in its self appointed power and will soon burst under the pressure it has created.

                                             Warm regards,
                                                      Brett Nakashima


----------



## havoc (Feb 17, 2005)

The bottom line is that the school has no basis for its persecution of you. I really believe that you did not need to see a lawyer because there is nothing they can do. However, on other hand it is not a bad idea to demonstrate to the school that you will not bend over and that you have legal  action ready. If for some reason they were able to do anything, the monatary cost of litigation alone would prohibit them from following through on any threats. There is no way a school board could justify any costs associated with this to taxpayers.

Also there is something missing from this story, like why did they call you in to lean on you. Who exactly was it, just some counseler with nothing better to do, or the actual administration? Either way I can not understand why they would be bothering you. Were you posting flyers around the school advertising your services? That is the only reason I can figure out that they would disaprove. Either way it is only 6 months, any action anyone could take would be futile because you would be 18 by the time anyone would be able to do anything to you.


----------



## Kodan_Txips (Feb 17, 2005)

Hee hee, why not stir up some POSITIVE trouble for the school.

Not you, but get someone to alert a local newspaper or community broadsheet.  They are always hungry for free stories.  Don't mention a THING about the troubles you are experiencing - the angle the paper should take is that your school is such a great place for providing a foundation for the lives of its students that ALREADY they have a boy wonder photographer, who is saving for an expensive career that he has already chosen because the school has made such a mature young man of him at SUCH a young age.  

Who'd have thought that that our local school was so good that one of their students is earning that much already, and isn't spending it on Xbox games, rather he is ploughing all back into his college ambitions. Ya gotta hand it to the young 'un, he has drive, but what a good school it must be to  help him on his way, blah blah woof woof, brownie points to the school, extra publicity to your business, and a chance to maybe get some of your work published publicly.  You could maybe eventually, with the permission of your customers to use "their" photos, get an exhibition mounted in the school or a local community centre.

I can just see the school struggling to say "Yes he is doing so well that we have decided to expel him if he doesn't stop"


----------



## Kodan_Txips (Feb 17, 2005)

But another point that has to be considered:

Have you done anything to annoy this counsellor, deliberately or unwittingly?  Apart from earning so much while still at school - you probably have more disposable income than a lot of adults who have kids and mortgages etc, and jealousy is a very strong emotion.  (I am jealous of you.  Not for your cash, if I had it I would waste it, because it is ME who is immature that way, even at 57.  I am jealous of your talent, and the fact that you know what you want in life.  I never have....   awww, bless)

But have you challenged authority, sought to sell your services in school time, acted in any rebellious way?  etc etc

Some adults can be pretty vengeful towards uppity kids, and nothing helps them more than having a uniform, or a nice "title", or a tiny bit of power.   Maybe you need to start tugging your forelock a bit more, and not rattle anyone's cage.  One problem with being young and talented is that it can make you confident, something that can appear arrogant and presumptuous to someone stressed and frustrated with their own life.

Offer help, maybe running a camera club at school, creating a school web newsletter, or printed newspaper with your photos in it.  All staff at the school get 10% off the work you do for them.  Parents of other pupils get 5%.  Whatever helps you through the last 6 months is worth the effort, and legal redress is not a great option really, as the school will send comments about you to your future college.


----------



## Shutterbug (Feb 17, 2005)

Nope, I've never advertised at school, although several teachers have framed/signed prints of mine in their classrooms. But those transactions were done online, through paypal, and never at school. 

The woman who told me this was the Career Center supervisor - the one that handles work permits and such. She's the one that an "Aspiring" young person would go to when looking for a minimum wage job.


----------



## Kodan_Txips (Feb 17, 2005)

Aaah

We had on of those at my school, back in 1964, the year I left.

Our exchange went, roughly:

"Well Peter, what do you want to do?"

"I want to be a chemistry lab technician."

"There are a lot more jobs in office work, I recommend you do that"

My parents agreed, and I don't think my career ever got off the ground from then on.

But anyway, I would keep doing outside work, and wait for them to sue you.  But what do you think of my "positive publicity" idea?


----------



## Artemis (Feb 17, 2005)

Can you imagine the newspapers?
School sues kid for doing work, or School sues kid for trying to start a career...the papers will love it...
Infact...next time you see your councellor, say
"IVe been meaning to talk to you...what do you think of? School sues kid for starting his career? catchy...yah think?"


----------



## friendlyphoto (Feb 17, 2005)

Or better newline 

"Kid Photographer sues school for millions, after ruining his bright photographer future"

I hate those concousler that thinks they know everything.

Good Luck.


----------



## lathamemmons (Feb 17, 2005)

17 and a payed photographer man im 14 and just got a good camera iny help 
on getting to were ure at would be great.as far as your problem fight to the death get alot of people on ure side techers parents kids and go to the schoolbord.cheak the laws first because thats a load of crap thx


sign latham


----------



## Kodan_Txips (Feb 17, 2005)

Sorry to sound pompous Latham, but I think the best advice for you, at 14, is to really study hard, and practice your photography as a hobby, or on the basis that you take photos for the family and they pay for the materials.

I am interested to know a bit more about you - do you do a lot of drawing, or art, for example.  I say all this because my youngest son had considerable talent as an artist at a very early age, asked for a camera of his own before he was 10, and has often been commissioned to do art work for other people.

To really make a living in photography, the artistic talent is more important than the camera, in my opinion.  In my case, no matter how much I spend on cameras, I still seem to take rubbish photos!


----------



## Tammy (Feb 17, 2005)

Just in case, thought this reference might be of help and provide some insight.



> Today, thousands of young people are stepping into the world of work performing vital jobs for
> employers before and after school, on weekends, and during school breaks, holidays, and vacations.
> Being gainfully employed is just one of the many steps a young person takes in their role as a
> contributing and productive member of society.
> ...



California Child Labor Laws - 2000

Page 5:



> Minors who are self-employed do not require permits.
> Minors irregularly employed in odd jobs in private homes, such as baby-sitting, lawn
> mowing, and leaf raking, do not need to obtain a Permit to Employ and Work.



Edited:
Just notice you've seen a lawyer... guess you don't need this afterall, but I'm leaving it incase it helps anyone else.


----------



## Corry (Feb 17, 2005)

Kodan_Txips said:
			
		

> Aaah
> 
> We had on of those at my school, back in 1964, the year I left.
> 
> ...




My guidance counselor sucked, too.  I remember her asking me what I wanted to do for a living, and she really discouraged me.  Gee, thanks a friggin lot for having faith in me.


----------

