# (Another) darkroom newbie... developing black and white?



## Don Simon (Aug 12, 2005)

Er... hello? (waiting for eyes to adjust to the dark)... ah there you all are.

Ferny suggested I venture into the dank, subterranean realm of The Darkroom forum to ask about developing my own black and white film. So here I am  By now you've probably been asked the same question enough times to wonder if you're stuck in some kind of time loop in an episode of the X-Files (yeah I could have mentioned any sci-fi series, but I'm too young for Twilight Zone references and have too much self-respect for Star Trek ones . Perhaps you could enlist the help of a programming genius to create a bot or AI program that answers all these noob questions. Um, anyhoo...

I have barely enough space to turn around in my house, so a "real darkroom" is out of the question. In any case I only need to develop, not enlarge (I couldn't justify buying the extra equipment and paper even if I had room for it). I do have a small cupboard (translation: closet) I could probably sit in at night without worrying about light leaks, so getting the film onto the reel and into the tank shouldn't be too much of a problem. Therefore my question is; what do I need? From memory I've come up with a list of what I used when developing before...

: Thingy-that-gets-the-film-out-but-which-only-works-sometimes (guessing that's not the technical name name for it)
: Film reel
: Film tank
: Developer
: Fixer
: Stop Bath
: Measuring jug for measuring/diluting/pouring developer & fixer
: Film clips
: Squeegee (sp?)

I think the list is complete, but could someone please let me know if there's something I've missed? Water for example, is tap water ok or should I be buying special distilled water, or melted snow from the Swiss Alps blessed by Tibetan monks in Mexico? Also how important is the stop bath; I never really used it before since they were always running out of it at college, but does that mean my old films will be disintegrating by now?

And the main question is, although I've got a list of generic items, what specifically should I get? I used to use plastic reels with ball bearings, and plastic tanks. Both worked fine although the reels could be a bit fiddly. I also have no idea what brand of developer or fixer to buy, or how to store them (out of the reach of animals and small children, presumably). Finally... I've forgotten how to develop . Well ok, I remember the absolute basics - film in tank, dilute developer, pour in developer, wait, wash, pour in fixer, wait, wash, stop bath, wash. But I don't remember the specifics, like how much developer to use and what dilution ratio, how long developing and fixing takes with different films, and what temperature to keep it at. I appreciate this is a lot of information to ask for, but maybe there are links to sites that would tell me all this?

Finally a question for my darkroom-dwelling compatriots - where did/do you buy your equipment from in the UK? http://www.speedgraphic.co.uk seems to sell everything that's required, but how do their products and prices stack up with the competition?

Sorry for the big post with so many questions, I should probably convert it into bitesize chunks  But any advice at all would be very gratefully received. Thanks in advance!


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## terri (Aug 12, 2005)

Glad you stumbled in!  But if you flip on the overhead light, we'll have to kill you. You've been warned. :mrgreen: 

As far as the specific "hot-to's", I put this link up earlier for someone - so I hope it's good: http://www.darkroomsource.net/tech-bw-film.shtml 

This site claims to have step-by-step instructions, and probably has lotsa groovy links to carry you far, far into the spectrum.....

You can also do a search here at the forum to admire us as we babble about this stuff at length. :sillysmi:



> Water for example, is tap water ok or should I be buying special distilled water, or melted snow from the Swiss Alps blessed by Tibetan monks in Mexico?


 I use tap water from the sink. If you elect to go the monk route, keep in mind those blessings only work on Tuesdays. Again, you've been warned. 

I can't help ya with the UK places; someone else will have to weigh in here. 

Hope this helps!


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## Don Simon (Aug 12, 2005)

Just remembered the stop bath goes in after the developer, not the fixer. Not that I was likely to bother using it anyway. Thanks for the link Terri!


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## terri (Aug 12, 2005)

You're welcome!  

I should really check the link out sometime; it's just the first thing that pops up when you google B&W film developing.... hope it helps!


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## darin3200 (Aug 12, 2005)

> : Thingy-that-gets-the-film-out-but-which-only-works-sometimes (guessing that's not the technical name name for it)


I think its called a film lead retreiver or something like that...but I don't use one. I just pop off each end with a flat screwdriver and pull open the cartridge, its not like you're going to use it again anyway


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## Don Simon (Aug 12, 2005)

hehe true - but surely that lets the light in? I always used to "retrieve" the end of the film and cut it straight (but with rounded edges) _before_ turning the light off; presumably you open the cartridge in the dark?


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## Seveneer (Aug 12, 2005)

Hi,

you could use a changing bag so that you don't have to sit in the cupboard. Also, I've always used a bottle opener to crack open the film canister rather than one of those film retrievers.

I buy my supplies from various places but http://www.firstcall-photographic.co.uk seem to be OK. Not the quickest to deliver but they stock most things.

ATB,
/Phil.


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## darin3200 (Aug 12, 2005)

ZaphodB said:
			
		

> hehe true - but surely that lets the light in? I always used to "retrieve" the end of the film and cut it straight (but with rounded edges) _before_ turning the light off; presumably you open the cartridge in the dark?



Yeah, I just do it all in the dark. Line up everything I need on a table, turn off the lights, pop open the cartridge, cut the end off, load on to spool, but  in canister. I guess there might be easier ways of doing it


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## Don Simon (Aug 12, 2005)

Thanks everyone! I'm actually giving some serious consideration to the idea of an actual darkroom now, mainly because even if I develop the negatives, when I give them to someone else to print I don't feel like I have control over them; I don't feel that I "made" the images in the same way. Plus I can probably make room in the shed  I know I said I can't justify it, and I can't, but who cares? I want to :mrgreen:

So I thought I'd post these enlarger-related questions here rather than start a new thread...
1) Would it make sense to go for a cheap used enlarger like the Durst F60 and buy a lens separately, or should I pay more for a newer one with lens and everything included, like this Paragon: http://www.firstcall-photographic.co.uk/pp/Darkroom_Equipment/Enlargers_-_Black_And_White/Paterson_Paragon_35mm_Enlarger_Starter_Kit.html
Although I have used enlargers, I have never owned one myself so don't really know what I need.
2) Will a colour enlarger work with black and white prints, or will I have to use filters / make adjustments? I've seen a lot of used colour enlargers going cheap.
3) If I buy the lens separately, what should I look for? Starting prices in online auctions for older enlarging lenses all seem to be incredibly low - often around £1 - is there something seriously wrong with older lenses? In particular I'm looking at Minolta Rokkor 4.5 lenses; how good are these likely to be?

Thanks again!


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## Unimaxium (Aug 12, 2005)

> : Thingy-that-gets-the-film-out-but-which-only-works-sometimes (guessing that's not the technical name name for it)



I call it a can opener.  At least that's what we use at school. Works really well.


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## darin3200 (Aug 12, 2005)

ZaphodB: (Hitchhikers Guide?  ) 
First, forget an enlarger, just shoot 8x10 slide film and make contact prints 
I would recommend buying an enlarger second hand, looking around in the local papers for enlargers for sales save a ton of money. I bought mine from a retired newspaper reporter who just didn't want to trouble with listing it on ebay. Also look for reviews on that enlarger kit, it might be a good deal but do some research. 
About color enlargers, I have heard some people saying that they work better than most B&W enlargers for B&W printing so if you can get one cheap it might be a good buy even if you don't plan on doing color.


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## terri (Aug 12, 2005)

I have a old, well used color enlarger (Omega D5) that cost a few thousand bucks when new - I got it for less than $500 with a couple lenses thrown in. It will shoot up to large format if needed.  I find it much easier to dial in my controls than use the filters I was taught on. A little magenta to add contrast, or yellow to flatten. 

That said, I learned on a Beseler 23 III C and it was great! There are tons of used enlargers out there and the prices are really reasonable. I picked up a couple more lenses on eBay, and all my miscellaneous darkroom supplies. :thumbup: It can really be done on the cheap.


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## Don Simon (Aug 12, 2005)

Thanks Darin & Terri, I'll definitely take what you said into consideration. Colour enlargers seem to be going for very little money, and thinking back the ones I used at college may have been colour (they had the Cyan, Magenta and Yellow dials which the B&W enlargers I've seen don't seem to have). I'm trying to use Ebay less; they already own the planet _de facto_ and I don't know what the management spends all that money on, so they must be cloning an army...

Anyway...

The name is of course from the Hitchhikers' Guide; as a kid I listened to recordings of the original BBC radio series, and I've read the books (collected in a single volume) more times than most priests open the Bible. If I ever become super-rich I will launch a philanthropic project to replace all those Gideons' in hotels with copies of the HHGTTG. The latter is much more useful for understanding and accepting your place in the universe. Sure, Buddha and Mohammed said many wise things, but are any as profound as "Don't Panic"?
Apologies for the blasphemy. My idea of seeing The Hitchhikers' Guide as the foremost philosophical work of all time is probably not a popular one :sillysmi:
As for the movie, I haven't seen it but I oppose to it on principle, simply because it further devalues the use of the name Zaphod online. It also destroys that mystical quality that exists when someone asks "What's the answer?" and you answer "42!", and one other person in the room smiles while everyone else just looks on confused.

But I digress...


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## darin3200 (Aug 12, 2005)

terri said:
			
		

> That said, I learned on a Beseler 23 III C and it was great!


Props to Beseler 23 III C  :thumbup:


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