# Problems loading the reel



## hughesdih (Nov 12, 2007)

Well, I've just finished developing my 15th roll of film. Every one that I have done so far has been ruined. I'm averaging about 5 usable pictures per 24 exp. roll. I've spent countless hours practicing loading the reel in the light. I still haven't done it successfully. No matter what I do I can not get it right. It's a stainless steel reel. Is there some secret to doing this? Has anyone else experienced such a horrific time with this? Is there a better, easier reel to use? Any advice would be appreciated. I'm considering bashing my camera into little pieces with a hammer. Either that or starting a bonfire in my backyard and burning all the film I can lay my hands on. If anyone can think of something less drastic for me to try to get this to work, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks,
David


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## nealjpage (Nov 12, 2007)

I use a plastic Patterson style tank with plastic reels.  You start the film  and then ratchet the film onto the reel.  It works very well.  I've never had much luck with the stainless steel ones, though everyone seems to swear by them.

Are your ruined negs from the film not being spooled correctly and wrapping around itself?


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## ilyfel (Nov 12, 2007)

Hi david! I used to be in your boat. I used plastic reels before tho. Pratice in light but close your eyes too. Feel the reel with your hands and study it. And then close your eyes and feel and study it. 

Thats what I did. And in no time I was a pro!! Good luck!


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## Helen B (Nov 12, 2007)

As ilyfel suggests, practice loading the reel in daylight and watch how things go wrong, then practice with your eyes closed. Problems often seem to be because of a misalignment at the start. That is usually the critical part of loading a stainless reel. If the film kinks and skips the spiral you often find that no matter how carefully you go back a little and try that lap again, you may need to go much further back - possibly even start again.

While you are winding you need to listen carefully and feel for any sideways movement of  the film. I also run the back of a fingernail (3rd finger, left hand) over the lap of film underneath the one that is going on, so that I can feel any kinks. Take care to ensure that the film is aligned with the reel. Is the reel damaged at all?

What make of reels are you using? How is the film attached to the centre? Could you switch to a plastic reel? Some of us prefer stainless reels, some prefer plastic reels. Once you have got the hang of loading a stainless reel they are very fast to load.

Good luck,
Helen


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## frXnz kafka (Nov 12, 2007)

I've never had good luck with the steel reels, and really I don't think they're any faster than plastic reels. If you can switch over to plastic, that might make your life easier. Otherwise, just keep practicing. Practice with your eyes closed.


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## Jeff Canes (Nov 12, 2007)

I&#8217;m another plastic supporter especially of the premium reels, they have nice tabs at start that help keep the film flat


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## terri (Nov 12, 2007)

Another vote for plastic reels. Some years back, in my very first darkroom class, we were given steel reels and film strips to play with in the light for a few minutes, while the instructor loaded some film in the darkroom. We then joined him to watch the development procedure - and his film came out ruined, stuck together and unusable, due to his own problems with the load! 

That made enough of an impression on me - I went out straight after class and picked up plastic reels and a Paterson tank. Aside from my own fumbling beginner's efforts, I've never looked back.

Just continue to practice - whichever way you decide. Too many people swear by them for them to be poor; we just each develop our own comfort zone. You'll find yours! 

Remember the two most frustrating words are: "learning curve".  Stick to it!


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## Skyhawk (Nov 12, 2007)

See if you can borrow someone else's steel reel and see if you have the same problem--yours may be slightly bent. A bent reel will make it near impossible to load film correctly onto.

Also, instead of practicing with your eyes closed, practice in the darkroom with the lights out on your old spool of film.

Nothing against plastic (still have several plastic tanks and reels) but I'm definitely in the steel camp.

Keep at it--you'll get it.

Jeff


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## hughesdih (Nov 12, 2007)

Thanks for all the advice. It's just really frustrating when roll after roll of film keeps getting ruined. Makes me not feel like even shooting any. Whats happening is that the films not going in straight or spaced. The film keeps touching other pieces of film so I'm getting huge splotches where the film is touching and isn't getting developed. One was even tightly wrapped completely around the center and I didn't even get a single usable picture! This after spending half an hour in the dark thinking I finally got it perfect. I guess all I can really do is keep practicing and try a plastic one if it doesn't start working for me. Thanks again


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## ann (Nov 13, 2007)

re-read helen's comments.

if you don't get the film started properly you will have all sorts of problems.


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## Joxby (Nov 13, 2007)

I know it sounds stupid but make sure you round the corners of the film with scissors at the start of the roll, ignore that if y'allready do it.
Took me 20 rolls to really get it together loading film, I still mess it up occasionally.
Plastic - all my reels have been plastic, but I melted one with a hairdryer rushing things, the one I replaced it with was still plastic but different, it feels kinda like nylon, or at least it has nylon in it, film goes on it first time every time without exception...I dunno why that is.


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## ilyfel (Nov 13, 2007)

I'm sorry but I feel stupider after reading that.

You take the film off the reel and slide your fingers down it to get all the stuff off. and then hang it to dry...

Not blow it with a hot hair dryer


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## Helen B (Nov 13, 2007)

I thought that John was probably referring to drying the reels between use. It is difficult to get film onto a wet plastic reel. That's one of the advantages of steel reels - they can be dried very quickly, and they don't have to be dry anyway.

You can dry film on the reel, of course, but it is usually done with cold air.

Best,
Helen


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## Joxby (Nov 13, 2007)

Helens on the button, I only had 2 reels, with half a dozen films to develope, I wanna get motoring ya know...production line.
Wet reels and dry film is suicidal....I only warped it slightly but it was enough for me to not even bother trying to use it again, lifes too short.
anyway, Nylon.......its really......skiddy:thumbup:

*edit*..oh, after reading that again, I do believe ilyfel's cracking t'funnay....

I R serious Joxby
an dis is a seerious fred

:lmao:


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## joyride (Nov 15, 2007)

Only used plastic and dont even want to bother with steel.  One problem I had though was loading onto a wet one.  The water seemed to bind up the film.  After making sure they were dry, never really had too much of a problem.  Ocacasionally I can feel it binding up though.   It becomes very difficult to wind.  At that point I slow down and feel for a jamb.  If it continues to load bad, I pull it apart and start again.  Better to take the time to redo it than ruin a roll.  

Also, make sure you are dumping enough chemicals into the tank.  I've seen people not put in enough developer, and the roll is not submerged in it for enough time.


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## ilyfel (Nov 16, 2007)

Joxby said:


> Helens on the button, I only had 2 reels, with half a dozen films to develope, I wanna get motoring ya know...production line.
> Wet reels and dry film is suicidal....I only warped it slightly but it was enough for me to not even bother trying to use it again, lifes too short.
> anyway, Nylon.......its really......skiddy:thumbup:
> 
> ...


huh?


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## Bobby Ironsights (Nov 17, 2007)

I vote plastic, steel is traditional.

I'm reminded of what Winston Churchill had to say about tradition.

He banned rum in the navy, and all the admirals got upset. "_Tradition!"_ they howled.

"_Tradition?"_, he snorted, "_Rum, Sodomy and the Lash!_"


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## Helen B (Nov 17, 2007)

For large volume work steel has big practical advantages and no disadvantages. It's not tradition, it's practicality.

Best,
Helen


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## Skyhawk (Nov 18, 2007)

Helen B said:


> For large volume work steel has big practical advantages and no disadvantages. It's not tradition, it's practicality.
> 
> Best,
> Helen



Not to mention if you ever use medium format film. I tried loading some on an expandable plastic reel and ended up giving up. Figured it might happen, so I had the steel reel and tank handy.

I also like the idea that steel helps hold temperature steady during development, easy to clean up, fast to dry and is very durable. I saw a lot of beginning photo students develop slight nicks in their plastic reels, which subsequently made loading film a real bear.

I've still got a handful of plastic tanks and reels, but doubt they'll ever see much use.

Jeff


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## Bobby Ironsights (Nov 18, 2007)

Skyhawk said:


> I've still got a handful of plastic tanks and reels, but doubt they'll ever see much use.
> 
> Jeff



Really? Feel like sending them over to me? I could use some more reels! Help a beginner out dude!:hugs:


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## RacePhoto (Nov 18, 2007)

Do one in the light and get a feel for it. Then try in the dark again.

I think if you keep trying, with a practice strip of film, in the dark, and then look in the light, you'll eventually get the feel for it, and you won't have problems after that. I'm not saying you won't get a "kiss mark" now and then, but once you get the feel of it down, you'll have it.

Are you pinching the sides of the film and then allowing it to naturally expand as it goes into the spaces?

I used to feel the film with my index finger in the center, as I pinched it slightly, with my thumb and middle finger, while checking now and them with my left thumb.

It sounds from what you described, that you are wrapping it too tight, most of the time. The film finds it's natural position as you turn the reel. You don't have to force it. Be gentle.

As you hold the film with your right hand and turn the reel with your left, it takes the film in, and it naturally finds the right place. If you are trying to fit it in, or push it into place, it's not going to work. Hardest part is the first couple of turns, getting it started tracking, where it's a smaller diameter, and less often the last couple turns.

Get the lead end stuck into the center of the reel, or even hooked, so it has an firm anchor in the center. Let the film pull itself into the reel. Keep checking after each turn or two. I have many rolls of film with the end having a hole, where I hooked it. That's why the center of the nikor reels has that sharp point. (at least they used to? It's been awhile) There's nothing you are losing on that half inch at the end.

If the lead end isn't tight, the film will slip and this will make it much harder to load.

35mm is easiest. I had more trouble with 120, because it flexed or twisted and wanted to jump the grooves.

Hope something in this, makes a difference and helps.

Like I started out writing. Once you get it, threading film onto the reel will be much more consistent. You just need to get the feel.

Honest, I have one old Ansco plastic reel and it was always more trouble because the film stuck and bunched up. Could be that I was just doing it wrong. 

I hate to ask the obvious, but you are loading the film with the open end of the spiral face right, and turning the reel counter clockwise? If not, it will never work.


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## Skyhawk (Nov 19, 2007)

Bobby Ironsights said:


> Really? Feel like sending them over to me? I could use some more reels! Help a beginner out dude!:hugs:



PM me a mailing address and I'll send a care package up your way.

Jeff


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## floridabwoy (Nov 20, 2007)

Plastic reels all the way. Make sure you cut the end of the film to an arrow when you take it out of the canister too.. that usually helps feed it in the 
slots initially....


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## Philip Weir (Nov 21, 2007)

Hi, haven't been on for a while, but here goes. I initially started processing film back about 1960 and have literally loaded thousands of rolls of film. The steel reels are definitely the best, but there is a learning curve. They are more sturdy, but if dropped can twist outof shape. They are so much faster to load than plastic once you get the hang of them. They can be dried quicker and will last indefinitely.   Philip.


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## hughesdih (Nov 22, 2007)

RacePhoto said:


> I hate to ask the obvious, but you are loading the film with the open end of the spiral face right, and turning the reel counter clockwise? If not, it will never work.



Yes, I am. I've been able to get it in perfectly in the light now. Still working on doing it in the dark. I havent been cutting the end into a point. I'll have to try that. You said something about pinching it and then allowing it to expand into its slot. I have not done anything resembling this. I just start wrapping it around and around holding it just taut enough so that it slips into place at the right groove or at least trying to. Could that be my problem?


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## Aquarium Dreams (Nov 25, 2007)

Skyhawk said:


> Not to mention if you ever use medium format film. I tried loading some on an expandable plastic reel and ended up giving up. Figured it might happen, so I had the steel reel and tank handy.




I had the same problem with 120 film on an expandable plastic reel!  I didn't have the steel reel ready, though, so I just scrapped the film out of frustration.  I guess I'll have to get some steel reels, even though I had some awful experiences with them in high school.  Any idea why it's easier to load 120 film on steel reels?


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## doobs (Nov 25, 2007)

They're much harder to load then 35, and I usually have a tough time, but I'll eventually get it.


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## Mesoam (Nov 26, 2007)

my photog prof always recommended plastic reels as well...


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