# New to film, do I have what I need?



## FocusDave (Jan 24, 2012)

As the title says, I'm new to developing my own film (b&w). I already have the developing tank (single roll) and 35mm reel, and I'm about to place an order with BH Photo for the following:
-developer
-stop bath
-fixer
-measuring syringe and graduate (not sure what volumes I needed on these, 6 mL and 150 mL, respectively?)
-film squeegee

The folks at my local camera shop said that a plain old bottle opener will work to open the film canisters, and I was planning on just using string and paper clips to hang the film up to dry. Am I missing anything?

In case any of you are curious, I'm shooting with a Minolta X-700 with a Rokkor 50mm f/1.7 lens. Right now there's Kentmere 100 film in the camera and I have a roll or two of Ilford 100 to save until I have some practice developing.


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## unpopular (Jan 24, 2012)

I would get a 500ml and 150ml graduate, skip the syringe. You'll need a good thermometer. I use this one: 

pHep 4 pH Tester, HI 98127 | HANNA Instruments USA

It also measures pH. Which is good in case you get into more advanced topics, but any darkroom thermometer would work.

I would also suggest you get a a plastic tub from target or walmart. I like to use a water bath to keep the temperature stable. Nothing too big, the kind you might use in the kitchen to wash vegetables work fine.

You're also missing photoflo or similar washing agent. This will help prevent water spots.


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## ann (Jan 24, 2012)

forgett the film squeegee.  You will need some storage containers for the the fixer as it is mixed from concentrate and can be reused.  ALso would recommend hc110 developer as it can be used as a one shot developer. Don't mix the whole bottle as it will oxides out.

go to ilford's website and check out their pdf files of developing negatives,


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## KenC (Jan 24, 2012)

+1 on the hc110 as a one shot, unless you're shooting tmax film in which case tmax developer is better.

I found that photoflo didn't completely eliminate spotting, but that washing the film briefly in distilled water and wiping with a squeegee gave me no spots at all.


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## 1holegrouper (Jan 24, 2012)

lightpad and loupe


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## Proteus617 (Jan 24, 2012)

Skip the 150ml graduate and get a 250 or 500.  You want a graduate that is at least the size of your tank.  The syringe will help you measure photoflow.  A good timer will help quite a bit.  You can use a cheap kitchen timer, but find one that displays seconds or has a minute hand that sweeps.  Digital timers that display only minutes are a PITA.  Also, don forget negative sleeves.


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## unpopular (Jan 24, 2012)

Proteus617 said:


> The syringe will help you measure photoflow.



That is a good point, and frankly, you can't really have enough graduates.


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## ann (Jan 24, 2012)

LPN is a better wetting agent (IMHO) and it comes with a dropper type cap. a few drops in distilled water works like a dream.


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## Josh66 (Jan 24, 2012)

I don't think paper clips will be strong enough - not to mention heavy enough to pull the film straight.  Get some real film clips.  Wooden clothes pins at the very least.

I don't know what tank you got, but 150mL will not cover 1 roll of 35mm...  You'll need a graduated cylinder at least 300mL.  Also a bigger one for mixing fixer, stop, etc. 1000mL would be good.  Good graduated cylinders are expensive...  In my experience, the cheap ones are not very accurate.  They're probably close enough though - just depends on how much of a perfectionist you are, lol.

Buy a few 10mL syringes (also good for measuring HC-110 or Rodinal - anything that you're going to be using very small quanties of).  The numbers tend to wear off after a while, so you'll want extras.


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## compur (Jan 24, 2012)

FocusDave said:


> The folks at my local camera shop said that a plain old bottle opener will work to open the film canisters



You won't need anything to open the film cartridges if you don't re-wind the film all the way back inside it. When you re-wind the film, as soon as you feel/hear the film release from the winder side, stop re-winding.  This leaves a few inches of film leader sticking out from the cartridge.  Just trim it square and then load it right onto the developing reel from the cartridge (in the dark of course).


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## Josh66 (Jan 24, 2012)

If you do wind it all the way into the can - a regular bottle opener _does_ work fine though.  I use one of the ones you get at the hardware store with a bottle opener on one side and a paint can opener on the other.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_307103-995-...Ntt=307103&N=0&langId=-1&storeId=10151&rpp=24

44 cents.


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## ann (Jan 24, 2012)

just an old fashion "church key " does the trick


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## FocusDave (Jan 25, 2012)

Wow guys, you're much more helpful than when I asked about fixing a lens in the equipment section. Thanks!


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## ann (Jan 25, 2012)

not many repair folks hang on on forums ?


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## unpopular (Jan 25, 2012)

O|||||||O said:


> If you do wind it all the way into the can - a regular bottle opener _does_ work fine though.  I use one of the ones you get at the hardware store with a bottle opener on one side and a paint can opener on the other.
> 
> Shop Warner Paint Can Opener at Lowes.com
> 
> 44 cents.






ann said:


> just an old fashion "church key " does the trick



LOL. This reminds me of my first photo class in college. A classmate barreled out of the loading room completely unaware that he _somehow_ sliced his hand open with the can opener, and was bleeding everywhere.

Unaware that this was really just a fluke, I was SO that glad I chose medium format.


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## unpopular (Jan 25, 2012)

compur said:


> FocusDave said:
> 
> 
> > The folks at my local camera shop said that a plain old bottle opener will work to open the film canisters
> ...



I prefered this method myself. You can use the canister to align the film with the reel - which can be challenging, esp with 35mm.


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## FocusDave (Jan 25, 2012)

ann said:


> not many repair folks hang on on forums ?



I work for a company called iFixit, and our site is all repair-oriented. I guess it's just strange for me to go from that to other forums where people couldn't care less when their stuff breaks.


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## Josh66 (Jan 25, 2012)

It's not that we don't care when it breaks - most people here would probably just send it in instead of attempting a repair themselves.  Depends on what is broken though, of course...


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## ann (Jan 25, 2012)

:thumbup:

Build a deck, paint a wall, no problem. Open a camera NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WAy


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## unpopular (Jan 25, 2012)

Usually I can't even get the cover completely off, nevermind do anything useful.


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## Proteus617 (Jan 25, 2012)

FocusDave said:


> Wow guys, you're much more helpful than when I asked about fixing a lens in the equipment section. Thanks!



I just checked out that old thread.  Lighter fluid both for loosening gummed up lubricant and for cleaning aperture blades.  Take your time and watch for the solvent resulting in migrating lubrication.  Qtips wrapped in bits of lens cleaning tissue are your best friend (no stray fibers left behind).   Usually TINY bits of gun oil on the tip of a screwdriver for anything that needs it.  Better help on the Classic Camera Repair Forum or APUG.  This is a digital heavy board.  The DSLR crowd usually does not like to get their hands dirty.


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## djacobox372 (Jan 26, 2012)

Here's a shopping list:

1) Black and white film
2) Changing bag (or light proof room)
3) Fixer (suggest kodak rapid fixer)
4) Developer (suggest hc110)
5) Stop Bath (suggest kodak indicator stop bath)
6) developing tank (suggest a two reel patterson)
7) Kodak Photo Flo solution
8) A couple jugs of distilled water (use this for your final rinse, tap water is usually fine for the rest)
9) Syringe for measuring developer (baby medicine syringe at the local drug store)
10) Two opaque jugs for storing fixer and stop
11) Some close pins and a line for hanging negatives
12) four clear measuring jugs (at least 800ml) for working solutions of fix, stop, developer, and photoflo
13) timer (stop watch or digital kitchen timer)


Sounds like a lot, but you should be able to buy it all for around $100. www.freestyle.biz is the store I recommend. 

AND

a negative scanner for digital print making, along with some canned air for blowing dust of the negs before scanning.

If you want to go with full-analog processing you need all the above (besides the scanner) as well as an enlarger an actual darkroom and a bunch of other supplies for printing on paper.


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## FocusDave (Jan 27, 2012)

Thanks for the list&#8212;it's a huge help. Luckily I already have the tank and 35mm reel. It's only a single reel tank, but it's an old stainless steel one my late grandfather used to develop his medium format film, so it's got some sentimental value. Does the fact that I'm only going to be developing one roll at a time affect the volumes of the measuring jugs for working the solutions? I hope to get a scanner eventually, but right now I just want to get the rolls of film developed.


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## FocusDave (Jan 27, 2012)

So I ran into a small issue. Browsing B&H for the chemicals you suggested, it appears that I can't purchase the rapid fixer or the Indicator stop bath online. Should I get something else or try to find those locally? As of right now I'm planning on substituting those with Ilford rapid fixer and Ilfostop stop bath.


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## compur (Jan 27, 2012)

Why not take a drive down to LA and get everything you need from Freestyle and save the shipping charges?


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## Proteus617 (Jan 27, 2012)

Or or just order from Freestyle.  Also the Freestyle house brand is Arista.  Arista chems and film are very good and very reasonable.


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## Helen B (Jan 27, 2012)

You don't need a stop bath - a water rinse is perfectly adequate. There are many alternatives to liquid concentrate rapid fixer. One is plain sodium thiosulfate, which is available cheaply in swimming pool supply stores. You can use it on its own - it doesn't need any other chemicals if you make it up just before use.

By the way, I would recommend plastic clothes pins rather than wood ones for drying film and paper.


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## FocusDave (Jan 27, 2012)

I wasn't going to order from freestyle because the link you gave me was for a graphic and digital design company. Is this what you meant to put? Freestyle Photographic Supplies - Traditional Black & White Film, Paper, Chemicals, Holgas and ULF

Also, the 4-5 hour drive through traffic is not worth it to save shipping, especially since gas will end up costing me more.


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## ann (Jan 27, 2012)

that is the place, they are very supportive of analog process and since you live on that side of the coast, shipping should be fast and not as expensive as coming to the east.


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## Josh66 (Jan 27, 2012)

And like you have discovered, they will ship things that B&H won't (ORM-D).  I have no idea why B&H won't ship it, but they have lost a lot of my business because of it.  If I have to buy one thing somewhere else, why not just place the whole order there?


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## bhop (Jan 27, 2012)

You guys are hardcore with your syringes and stuff.. I just have lines marked on my graduate and fill the respective chemicals to that line, then add water.  B&W chemicals are pretty forgiving.. I always use a squeegee too, otherwise I get water spots, even with photoflo..


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## Josh66 (Jan 27, 2012)

A syringe is a lot easier when you're trying to measure out 5ml of Rodinal...  Or HC-110 concentrate.  That stuff doesn't 'pour' very well.


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## ann (Jan 27, 2012)

O|||||||O said:


> A syringe is a lot easier when you're trying to measure out 5ml of Rodinal...  Or HC-110 concentrate.  That stuff doesn't 'pour' very well.



we use a small graduated beaker, holds no more than 2 .5 oz and then rinse very well with no issues.


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## bhop (Jan 27, 2012)

O|||||||O said:


> A syringe is a lot easier when you're trying to measure out 5ml of Rodinal...  Or HC-110 concentrate.  That stuff doesn't 'pour' very well.



I see.. I use all liquid chemicals (clayton f76 developer for instance) they pour nicely.


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## Josh66 (Jan 27, 2012)

Rodinal pours fine (pretty much like water), but HC-110 is pretty thick.  Think 'maple syrup', but yellow.

I have been meaning to get a good 5 or 10mL graduated cylinder.  After I have that, I probably won't use syringes much, except for squirting the stuff into the cylinder.

None of my graduated cylinders are capable of measuring in quantities that small.


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## djacobox372 (Jan 27, 2012)

A syringe is also cheaper then a graduated cylinder.


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## Josh66 (Jan 27, 2012)

djacobox372 said:


> A syringe is also cheaper then a graduated cylinder.


Yes.  MUCH cheaper.  That's why I'm still using it.


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## Proteus617 (Jan 27, 2012)

My syringe is from the local drugstore.  I asked, and they gave me one for free.  BTW, not the needle type, the measure cough medicine for your infant type.


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## FocusDave (Feb 3, 2012)

After carefully considering what everyone said, here's my shopping list for BH Photo. (I checked out Freestyle and it was slightly more expensive, not taking into account that fact that Ilford 100 36 exposure was $0.70 more expensive per roll.)

-Developer (HC-110)
-Stop bath (Ilford Ilfostop)
-Fixer (Ilford Rapid Fixer)
-Kodak Photo-Flo
-Four 470mL graduates
-Two 32 oz Datatainer storage bottles
-27.5 x 27.5 changing bag
-Rubber squeegee

I'm planning on getting the syringe, distilled water, and clothes pins locally. Did I do good?


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## Josh66 (Feb 3, 2012)

You still need sleeves to put the film in, and a box to put those in.  Other than that, it looks like you should be set.  You don't really need the squeegee though...


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## FocusDave (Feb 3, 2012)

You seem like a reputable source, so I'll go squeegee-less :]

Any comment on polyester vs polypropylene sleeves? It's almost twice the cost to get polyester.


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## Josh66 (Feb 3, 2012)

I forget which mine are...  I'll have to check when I get home.  They're ClearFile brand though.  The box I use to keep those in is a black binder box made by Archival Methods.  One box can hold probably 300 pages...


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