# Baby bro's first Halloween! :D



## swiftparkour94 (Oct 31, 2012)

These were super rushed and taken indoors on my couch with no flash. The backdrop was a tan color and the lighting wasn't anything set up....it was absurdly awful. All shot in RAW and heavily post processed. I very rarely shoot portraits as it's not the type of photography I love to shoot most but my mom wanted me to so that she'd save some money. After hours of touching up, this is what I've got (just posted my favorites only). CC is EXTREMELY APPRECIATED!!!


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## swiftparkour94 (Oct 31, 2012)

Boop


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## runnah (Oct 31, 2012)

The facial expressions are great. You already pointed out the issue of the lighting that is probably the biggest problem.

Do you have an unedited example?


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## janineh (Oct 31, 2012)

Baby skin seems orange. The background (sheet) could be fixed up. I would never sit a baby that age up. It looks wrong and uncomfy. poses are not appropriate for its age.


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## swiftparkour94 (Oct 31, 2012)

janineh said:
			
		

> Baby skin seems orange. The background (sheet) could be fixed up. I would never sit a baby that age up. It looks wrong and uncomfy. poses are not appropriate for its age.



My moms a mother of 3, she knows what she's doing and this is how she wanted it


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## swiftparkour94 (Oct 31, 2012)

runnah said:
			
		

> The facial expressions are great. You already pointed out the issue of the lighting that is probably the biggest problem.
> 
> Do you have an unedited example?



Ooooo I forgot to save them, sorry  the difference is night and day, literally. I had to make so many changes!


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## swiftparkour94 (Oct 31, 2012)

swiftparkour94 said:
			
		

> My moms a mother of 3, she knows what she's doing and this is how she wanted it



Oh and it was more orange to begin with, I didn't want it pale white but I know what you mean. He's a bit more orange looking in person anyways so I didn't see a problem with it


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## unpopular (Oct 31, 2012)

^^ doesn't matter if she knows what she's doing. The poses are unnatural.


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## swiftparkour94 (Oct 31, 2012)

unpopular said:
			
		

> ^^ doesn't matter if she knows what she's doing. The poses are unnatural.



and thus, the pictures suck


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## unpopular (Oct 31, 2012)

don't know about that, but it certainly doesn't help.


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## swiftparkour94 (Oct 31, 2012)

unpopular said:
			
		

> don't know about that, but it certainly doesn't help.



You know that some models binge to stay in shape, right? They aren't comfortable when modeling. We knew my brother was comfortable up until he started falling over. He wasn't straight up, he was slightly slouched. He yawned in the one with his mouth open in the shape of an "O" and stretched with his arms up so I can see how it can appear to be misleading. He only cried when he started to get uncomfortable then we'd reposition him. This is what my mom envisioned for his photos and I think I did an excellent job considering the limits I had, I just wanted to know if others though the same. I really wish I had a before and after. The difference really blew me away and makes me wonder why I never bothered to shoot in RAW. Next time if I shoot like this I'll keep the ones I plan on sharing. 

Cheers


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## unpopular (Oct 31, 2012)

#1 and #3 work, #2 _looks_ uncomfortable.

but calm down, man. I appreciate your defenseveness, but nobody is accusing anyone of child abuse here.


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## swiftparkour94 (Nov 1, 2012)

unpopular said:
			
		

> #1 and #3 work, #2 looks uncomfortable.
> 
> but calm down, man. I appreciate your defenseveness, but nobody is accusing anyone of child abuse here.



Alright


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## swiftparkour94 (Nov 1, 2012)

Oh and #2 was one my mom wanted to keep and I was iffy on it because of that. I thought it was a bit funny though ha


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## runnah (Nov 1, 2012)

#1. Lets Party!
#2. Too much to drink.
#3. The morning after.


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## swiftparkour94 (Nov 1, 2012)

runnah said:
			
		

> #1. Lets Party!
> #2. Too much to drink.
> #3. The morning after.



Hahaha!!!!


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## kathyt (Nov 1, 2012)

Ummmm, well, let's see.  Your composition is not appealing.  The baby is positioned in an unnatural way.  Newborn posing takes some time to really master.  The skin tones are way off and look extremely orange.  Shooting at a much closer range would have provided better detail and looked less like a snapshot.  When shooting babies at this age you should not try to sit them up because they are unable to do so on their own at this stage.  Position them in a way in which they would likely be more comfortable and the results will be much more pleasing.


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## jwbryson1 (Nov 1, 2012)

These are not good.


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## Majeed Badizadegan (Nov 1, 2012)

swiftparkour94 said:


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Hmmm Swift, Janineh is one of the premiere professional newborn shooters on this board. You've pretty hastily discounted her expertise in this area. Are you going to listen to her, a paid professional about what makes a good newborn photo and looks right in a photograph? Or are you going to be your usual self and make 1,000 excuses instead of just listening to what others have to say? 



swiftparkour94 said:


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You do know what "binge" means, right? I guess models "binge" all the time to make sure their bodies are in perfect shape for their photo shoots. That's how I try to keep my model-ish figure, by "binging". The strategy hasn't worked as well for me. 

Besides your woeful lack of understanding of this term, it's even more frightening that you'd put the discomfort of a paid professional model and a helpless newborn in the same category.


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## unpopular (Nov 1, 2012)

Guys, don't be too harsh on him. Any time that there is a newborn introduced into a family dynamic, members, especially male members, are going to become defensive easily. Parker hasn't had the experience to know when to set his feelings aside and know that he is speaking from instinct to protect his family.

I agree he's a little punk, but given the circumstances his reply is totally understandable.


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## swiftparkour94 (Nov 1, 2012)

Well that escalated quickly....

For the record, I didn't pose him 

We've had a professional shoot him before, the photos were rubbish. Absolutely awful, and they had a flash! I'm not the only one that's said that, hundreds of others preferred mine over the others that were shot by the professional. They show character through his expressions and poses, that's the significance. They look bad? I really, REALLY wish I had saved the before photos. So much toying with gradients, WB, multiple tools, etc. The good news for my family is that it was done for free. 

So let me ask you guys this: Good photos shot for free?

This photo is everyones favorite by far


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## shortpants (Nov 1, 2012)

It's your brother, can't you just reshoot? Seems better than putting so much  time into trying to save something that you said yourself was awful lighting and set up. Don't think they can be saved. He's cute as hell and it wouldn't take long to look up how to pose a newborn. You don't need a flash just use window light during the day.


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## swiftparkour94 (Nov 1, 2012)

shortpants said:
			
		

> It's your brother, can't you just reshoot? Seems better than putting so much  time into trying to save something that you said yourself was awful lighting and set up. Don't think they can be saved. He's cute as hell and it wouldn't take long to look up how to pose a newborn. You don't need a flash just use window light during the day.



This was a quickie and we are very happy with the results. I just wanted opinions based on my results, kinda hard when I haven't saved what they originally looked like. Next time will be much better upon more preparation. Will try and get a good reasonably priced flash for portraits, I don't want to exceed $200 so recommendations would be great. A TTL one for Canon. I'll probably post another thread asking for those answers in another post so that I can have a look at them. Right now my problem is lenses for what I want to start a career in shooting


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## dalex100 (Nov 1, 2012)

Haha! I like the baby's face in the first picture. His face is like : "Wooohooo!"


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## Light Guru (Nov 1, 2012)

swiftparkour94 said:


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Agreed. 



swiftparkour94 said:


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Being a mother of 3 does not make her good at posing portraits it just means that you feed the child and dont endanger them to a point that child protective services takes them away. 

The images have bad lighting bad posing and the background is way to close to the subject.


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## Light Guru (Nov 1, 2012)

swiftparkour94 said:


> After hours of touching up, this is what I've got



If it takes hours in post that should tell you that things were definitely not done right during the shoot.


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## janineh (Nov 1, 2012)

swiftparkour94 said:
			
		

> This was a quickie and we are very happy with the results. I just wanted opinions based on my results, kinda hard when I haven't saved what they originally looked like. Next time will be much better upon more preparation. Will try and get a good reasonably priced flash for portraits, I don't want to exceed $200 so recommendations would be great. A TTL one for Canon. I'll probably post another thread asking for those answers in another post so that I can have a look at them. Right now my problem is lenses for what I want to start a career in shooting



It doesn't matter how those photos looked like before your edit. They don't look good full stop. Even after hrs of editing. Please don't put a baby at risk by positioning it not age appropriate. If you want to learn, you should re shoot and try and make it better. There shouldn't be a massive edit nessecary if you get it right while shooting. Good luck!


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## janineh (Nov 1, 2012)

Also you don't need a flash. I do only natural light photography. Place the baby near a window and save your $$...


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## JAC526 (Nov 1, 2012)

If you want flash I would look at cheaper all manual flashes.  I have 2 yongnuo 560s and they are great.  If you shoot them off camera (which you should) then you aren't really going to use ttl anyway.

There will be situations and things you may want to do where all natural available light just won't cut it.


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## MLeeK (Nov 1, 2012)

First and foremost never position any subject directly against the backdrop. They need to be a few feet from the backdrop
Less is more. Rule of thumb: One prop per image, maximum. THis is all about pumpkins and that god awful pumpkin thing. Had they been about the baby they'd have been much better. There are major issues on focus as well. ]
NEVER use a white vignette. It's a sure sign of AWAC and it just plain looks like cheap and cheesy. 
You didn't save the before... so you deleted the raws? I think that's a cop out for I don't want you to see how bad I screwed  up. Sorry.


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## MLeeK (Nov 1, 2012)

janineh said:


> Also you don't need a flash. I do only natural light photography. Place the baby near a window and save your $$...


I totally agree with Janine. You have to learn the basics before you add in flash or the two will get you so screwed up that you won't know if you are coming and going and it'll take you MUCH longer to learn what you are doing.


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## rexbobcat (Nov 1, 2012)

It's all been said blah blah, but I honestly couldn't give less of a damn about how generically commercial (aka adorable) these photos do or don't look.

Those facial expressions are just awesome enough. I would keep these photos lol.


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## swiftparkour94 (Nov 1, 2012)

MLeeK said:
			
		

> First and foremost never position any subject directly against the backdrop. They need to be a few feet from the backdrop
> Less is more. Rule of thumb: One prop per image, maximum. THis is all about pumpkins and that god awful pumpkin thing. Had they been about the baby they'd have been much better. There are major issues on focus as well. ]
> NEVER use a white vignette. It's a sure sign of AWAC and it just plain looks like cheap and cheesy.
> You didn't save the before... so you deleted the raws? I think that's a cop out for I don't want you to see how bad I screwed  up. Sorry.



He was on a couch with a sheet over it, he had to be against it to sit up. Exactly the way my mom wanted it. That flat pumpkin graphic my mom needed in some of the shots for my grandma because she gave it to us to use. We tried pictures of him alone afterwards but he got fussy so we called it off. I have always been against white vignettes, but I had to turn to it. It just made it look better and hid the top part of the couch which would have looked more tacky. 

I didn't cop out of anything. I never save RAW files I'll think I'll have to come back and work with again. It just takes up RAM, however this will change when I start making money doing shoots


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## swiftparkour94 (Nov 1, 2012)

MLeeK said:
			
		

> I totally agree with Janine. You have to learn the basics before you add in flash or the two will get you so screwed up that you won't know if you are coming and going and it'll take you MUCH longer to learn what you are doing.



Yea, I probably should have moved the couch :/


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## LaFoto (Nov 2, 2012)

Somehow, this...


swiftparkour94 said:


> CC is EXTREMELY APPRECIATED!!!



and this...


swiftparkour94 said:


> and I think I did an excellent job considering the limits I had, I just wanted to know if others though the same.



just don't go together...!

(Though I must admit that your photos of your baby brother, contrived as they may seem, wrong in colours and whatnot, are all three better than ANY photo I took of ANY of my children when they were that little ... a-hemmm.....!)


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## Majeed Badizadegan (Nov 2, 2012)

swiftparkour94 said:


> He was on a couch with a sheet over it, he had to be against it to sit up. Exactly the way my mom wanted it. That flat pumpkin graphic my mom needed in some of the shots for my grandma because she gave it to us to use. We tried pictures of him alone afterwards but he got fussy so we called it off. I have always been against white vignettes, but I had to turn to it. It just made it look better and hid the top part of the couch which would have looked more tacky.
> 
> I didn't cop out of anything. I never save RAW files I'll think I'll have to come back and work with again. It just takes up RAM, however this will change when I start making money doing shoots





:raisedbrow:


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## o hey tyler (Nov 2, 2012)

swiftparkour94 said:
			
		

> He was on a couch with a sheet over it, he had to be against it to sit up. Exactly the way my mom wanted it. That flat pumpkin graphic my mom needed in some of the shots for my grandma because she gave it to us to use. We tried pictures of him alone afterwards but he got fussy so we called it off. I have always been against white vignettes, but I had to turn to it. It just made it look better and hid the top part of the couch which would have looked more tacky.
> 
> I didn't cop out of anything. I never save RAW files I'll think I'll have to come back and work with again. It just takes up RAM, however this will change when I start making money doing shoots



RAW files don't take up RAM dude. Hard drive space, yes. 

"Hundreds" of people on Facebook may have told you they look awesome. Experienced photographers are telling you they don't. Have some humility, take notes, and learn from your mistakes.

The photos did not come out well for all of the previously mentioned reasons.


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## planC (Nov 2, 2012)

Look kinda weird, like #2 though with the expression


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## MLeeK (Nov 2, 2012)

swiftparkour94 said:


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By all means, believe they are gorgeous from your facebook friends. We're just seasoned professionals who don't know what we are doing anyway. 
Really. You have eyes, open them. Compare them to http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/people-photography/302578-1st-ever-newborn-session.html
http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/general-gallery/300717-newborn-shoot.html or even this one http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/people-photography/296265-another-newborn-practice-session.html
You have learned nothing in the time you've been here? 
Mistake #1 is not telling your "client" "subject" what will or wont work. They know NOTHING about photography and what works. YOU (supposedly) do. Your session was doomed from the second  you let her tell you how to do it. 
You take what mom wants and tell her that it's a fantastic idea, but this is what we have to do to make it turn out like that in the camera... Then you take the crap shots she wants with 12 hideous props for her. And  then  you take the shots you know will be good. 
99% of the time the shots they LOVE will be the ones where you got rid of all of the crap they thought they needed.


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## swiftparkour94 (Nov 2, 2012)

MLeeK said:
			
		

> By all means, believe they are gorgeous from your facebook friends. We're just seasoned professionals who don't know what we are doing anyway.
> Really. You have eyes, open them. Compare them to http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/people-photography/302578-1st-ever-newborn-session.html
> http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/general-gallery/300717-newborn-shoot.html or even this one http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/people-photography/296265-another-newborn-practice-session.html
> You have learned nothing in the time you've been here?
> ...



We had 3 props, not 12


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## slow231 (Nov 2, 2012)

i love them. you should do this for a living.


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## MLeeK (Nov 2, 2012)

swiftparkour94 said:


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You get the point. Your maturity is showing


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## swiftparkour94 (Nov 2, 2012)

slow231 said:
			
		

> i love them. you should do this for a living.



Thanks, but I never want to do portraits like this for a living lol. I love sports and wildlife too much. I like shooting everything though and it's good to have experience with it all


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## JAC526 (Nov 2, 2012)

swiftparkour94 said:


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Sorry to burst your bubble but I think that was sarcasm.  Maybe.


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## kathyt (Nov 2, 2012)

Can we pretty please stop feeding this kids parking meter?


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## MLeeK (Nov 2, 2012)

kathythorson said:


> Can we pretty please stop feeding this kids parking meter?



Kathy, you ROCK.


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## swiftparkour94 (Nov 2, 2012)

JAC526 said:
			
		

> Sorry to burst your bubble but I think that was sarcasm.  Maybe.



Not at all. What makes you think that?


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## JAC526 (Nov 2, 2012)

swiftparkour94 said:


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Gut feeling.


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## JAC526 (Nov 2, 2012)

I can do this all day.


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## swiftparkour94 (Nov 2, 2012)

JAC526 said:
			
		

> I can do this all day.



Ok


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## MLeeK (Nov 2, 2012)

Trust me, it was snark. Compare the images you produced with any professional image. 
No, it's not something you could sell. 
They are NOT professional even in a YouAreNotAPhotographer.com kind of way. 
In fact I'd not be shocked to see those there.


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## Mully (Nov 2, 2012)

You guys are having too much fun with this!!


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## swiftparkour94 (Nov 2, 2012)

MLeeK said:
			
		

> Trust me, it was snark. Compare the images you produced with any professional image.
> No, it's not something you could sell.
> They are NOT professional even in a YouAreNotAPhotographer.com kind of way.
> In fact I'd not be shocked to see those there.



Leave me alone


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## MLeeK (Nov 2, 2012)

swiftparkour94 said:


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You have the option to ignore me. Feel free!


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## tmjjk (Nov 2, 2012)

Why do you have your photos set to NOT ok to edit?  We may be able to help a little and show you a different way.


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## JAC526 (Nov 2, 2012)

Damn the Mleek burn.  Rare but ohh so painful.


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## rexbobcat (Nov 2, 2012)

And just to bring it to the attention of anyone who hasn't already noticed...He does have a trollface for an avatar lol


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## Majeed Badizadegan (Nov 2, 2012)

rexbobcat said:


> And just to bring it to the attention of anyone who hasn't already noticed...He does have a trollface for an avatar lol



I have a theory about that one: He's so painfully thick-headed and has been called a troll so many times that he's finally embraced it.  But he's not really a troll, because even a troll would have a hard time inventing the dumb things he spews out everyday. Calling him a troll is an insult to trolls. No, what we have here is an 18 year old with the social intelligence of an 11 year old, with no will to learn, and an incapacity to realize how obnoxious he is.


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## Sweetneers (Nov 2, 2012)

Well, since everyone else is adding their two cents, here's my three:

1) Yes. The photos might have been the worst photos ever taken on this planet prior to you putting them through post production. The thing about professional photography is, I don't ask my clients to buy photos before post. Hell, I don't even show them the photos before post. Just because you can move some sliders, so it's not _that bad_ doesn't mean you're good at editing. It's all about the final result. 

2) Now, here's the thing that really bothers me. I went and looked at your other thread topics, and I found one with a lens reversal, and really nice macro shots. Now, the fact that these images look horrid, and those look really nice, leads me to beleive, you've A) Lost your damn mind and forgotten everything about photography, B) Stolen the images, or C) are trolling us. 

3) You ask for C&C, and have gotten plenty on the photos, so here's some on you. When you ask for C&C expect to get one positive for every ten negatives. Criticism does you absolutely no good if for every one you get, you just get defensive. Why do you think music artist hire artistic directors, I promise it's not for the AD to praise them when they suck. If Britney Spears' AD told her, "This song sucks." Then she said, "Oh, yeah, it's pretty bad, but it was A LOT worse before we put it through post, so we should still publish it based on that fact." She would never have sold anything. If you don't want C&C, or you're not going to learn from it, it's useless to ask for us to take our time to write out a review of your work. *You're wasting our time.*


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## unpopular (Nov 2, 2012)

Sweetneers said:


> *You're wasting our time.*



I love it when people say this. We're on the internetz for christ sake.


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## MLeeK (Nov 2, 2012)

unpopular said:


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Yeah, but there are other people we could be helping that deserve the waste of time much more.


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## JAC526 (Nov 2, 2012)

unpopular said:


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I hate when people expect that all the internet is good for is to waste your time.


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## unpopular (Nov 2, 2012)

not all the internet. there is that remaining 25%


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## swiftparkour94 (Nov 2, 2012)

Sweetneers said:
			
		

> Well, since everyone else is adding their two cents, here's my three:
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> 1) Yes. The photos might have been the worst photos ever taken on this planet prior to you putting them through post production. The thing about professional photography is, I don't ask my clients to buy photos before post. Hell, I don't even show them the photos before post. Just because you can move some sliders, so it's not that bad doesn't mean you're good at editing. It's all about the final result.
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I asked if they were ok considering the conditions I listed I was in. I haven't stolen any of my photos, I do not and have never done that. I am very beginner-ish with set up portraits that's why there is such a huge difference between the 'wow' factor in my other photos. I know that there is a lot wrong with these, again I just wanted CC after I explained the situation I shot these in. Next time I make a post like this, I'll keep the files if I ever think about sharing them on the web for CC. The difference is night and day, I was amazed at such the huge difference editing made from such a terrible set up. That's what people are not understanding, but now I realize that I'm to blame for not having the before photos but it doesn't give people further reason to put me down


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## MLeeK (Nov 2, 2012)

swiftparkour94 said:


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No. The conditions were not that bad! THe knowledge WAS that bad.


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## Sweetneers (Nov 2, 2012)

swiftparkour94 said:


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Write a C&C about how the before photos do not matter at all in any situation, ever. 

OP replies about the before photos.

Before, I thought you were defensive. I see now you're just insane.


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## slow231 (Nov 3, 2012)

JAC526 said:


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100% sarcastic. he asked for cc but then openly stated that he just wanted people to agree that he did a good job (which he didn't).  he then proceeded continue to ignore or defend every comment, so i figured i'd post the only thing he'd accept.  no cc, no comments, no advice is going to help someone not actually looking for it. i don't think it's necessarily a maturity level thing (although it does help).  if someone's not actually looking for advice or trying get better, they're just not going to be receptive to anything except for what they are fishing for.  i figured he'd understand this type of response with the troll face as his avatar, but i probably assumed too much.


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## unpopular (Nov 3, 2012)

I don't understand how anyone could conclude that these are good when comparing against even your run of the mill newborn portraits:

http://www.blegerphotographyblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Newborn-low-key.jpg
http://www.megangeorge.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/newborn-lena-23blog.jpg
http://www.megganjacks.com/blog/pics/phoenix_newborn_060909.jpg

OP has shown a good effort, but a clear lack of attention to detail. I think the big problem here is his unwillingness to admit being a beginner. If he's doing street photography, he thinks he's Henri Cartier-Bresson. If he's doing baby photography he thinks he's Anne Geddes.

I mean, how long could you have possibly been doing this? Unless you're Woodman (and no, you are not even close), proficiency takes at least ten years IMO. Even then really in only one field. It's going to take a lifetime of professional varied experience to be proficient with any subject and circumstance. 

Inexperience is a bad thing only when you can't admit it.


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