# Need macro photography advice (how to get a white background?)



## phnoob (Aug 9, 2012)

I need to take quality photos of small electronics components. I just purchased the following equipment:

*Tripod:*
Amazon.com: Ravelli APGL4 New Professional 70" Tripod with Adjustable Pistol Grip Head and Heavy Duty Carry Bag: Electronics

*Flashes (3x):*
Amazon.com: Yongnuo YN-560 II Speedlight Flash for Canon and Nikon. GN58.: Electronics

*Lens:*
Amazon.com: Tamron AF 90mm f/2.8 Di SP AF/MF 1:1 Macro Lens for Nikon Digital SLR Cameras: Camera & Photo

*Focusing Rail:*
Amazon.com:  Adorama Budget Macro Focusing Rail Set with 4 Way, Fine Control, Camera  Focusing Rail for Macro Photography.: MP3 Players & Accessories

*Light Box:*
Amazon.com: CowboyStudio 24in Photo Soft Box Light Tent - 4 Chroma Key Backdrops: Camera & Photo

*Wireless Remote:*
Amazon.com: Nikon ML-L3 Wireless Remote Control: Camera & Photo

I'm _very_ inexperienced at photography and would really appreciate some advice on what flash and camera settings to use. I took a number of pictures with a Nikon D3000 and the following settings:

Flashes: 

Zoom: 24mm 
Speed: 1/32 sec 
Mode: M 
 Camera:

Shutter speed: 1/160 sec 
F-stop: F9 
ISO: 100 
I had one flash on either side of the softbox, and one pointing down from the top.

 Here is the result of the images being stacked in PS:

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/5530/macrotest1.jpg

I am trying to get a pure white background so that the image can be used on the web. I tried making a levels adjustment layer and was able to get the following result:

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/5702/macrotest1leveled.jpg

That's far from perfect, though. As you can see, a lot of detail was removed, and the background near the LEDs is very "grainy."

I would welcome any advice you might be able to give!

Thanks


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## 480sparky (Aug 9, 2012)

You'll probably need a dedicated light for the background.  You can set it up to overexpose a white cloth.

Lacking that, shoot in raw and edit in post.


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## cgipson1 (Aug 9, 2012)

Might need one more flash..  place the whitebox on a clear glass table or build a frame to hold it up off the ground / table whatever.. flash the bottom of the lightbox also. (assuming you have the components on the bottom when you shoot?)

you could probably get by with one flash each on the sides (say 3/4 of the way up).. and one underneath / behind the components.


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## phnoob (Aug 9, 2012)

Yes, the components sit on the bottom of the light tent. You think another flash would help significantly? I'm already using three...


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## scorpion_tyr (Aug 9, 2012)

For something so small you shouldn't need anymore flashes. Use two flashes to cover the background, turn them up all the way or close to max, use one flash on very low power on the subject. Then just meter for the subject and if the background was white to begin with it should be way over exposed and all detail lost. For such small components you may even be able to use just one light on the background.


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## cgipson1 (Aug 9, 2012)

phnoob said:


> Yes, the components sit on the bottom of the light tent. You think another flash would help significantly? I'm already using three...



you could probably get by with one flash each on the sides (say 3/4 of the way up).. and one underneath / behind the components. You would have to play with power levels...


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## phnoob (Aug 9, 2012)

scorpion_tyr said:


> For something so small you shouldn't need anymore flashes. Use two flashes to cover the background, turn them up all the way or close to max, use one flash on very low power on the subject. Then just meter for the subject and if the background was white to begin with it should be way over exposed and all detail lost. For such small components you may even be able to use just one light on the background.



So how would you suggest I place the flashes? Right now I have one pointing straight down, and the two others are pointing totally horizontally into the light tent from the sides.



cgipson1 said:


> phnoob said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, the components sit on  the bottom of the light tent. You think another flash would help  significantly? I'm already using three...
> ...



Why would underneath be better than on top?


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## Buckster (Aug 9, 2012)

Like Charlie said, get them on an elevated piece of glass inside the light tent.


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## cgipson1 (Aug 9, 2012)

phnoob said:


> scorpion_tyr said:
> 
> 
> > For something so small you shouldn't need anymore flashes. Use two flashes to cover the background, turn them up all the way or close to max, use one flash on very low power on the subject. Then just meter for the subject and if the background was white to begin with it should be way over exposed and all detail lost. For such small components you may even be able to use just one light on the background.
> ...



The ones on the side should be fine for lighting the small items you are shooting, especially if you get them up toward the top of the sides.... lots of soft diffused light. The one underneath will light the base of the lightbox... turning it TOTALLY white. You will have to play with the power... you want enough to make the base cloth slightly overexposed... but you dont want so much that you get major splash on the items. Make sense?


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## phnoob (Aug 10, 2012)

Buckster said:


> Like Charlie said, get them on an elevated piece of glass inside the light tent.



I thought he was saying to raise the light tent itself?


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## phnoob (Aug 10, 2012)

OK, here are a few test images:

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/2672/dsc0001ka.jpg

Flashes top, left, and right. Left & right flashes 2/3rds height of light tent. Flash settings: 1/32 sec, 24mm.


http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/6079/dsc0002qdo.jpg

Flash bottom, left, right. Left & right flashes 2/3rds height of light tent, bottom flash 8" from bottom of tent. Flash settings: 1/32 sec, 24mm.


http://img857.imageshack.us/img857/3674/dsc0003hd.jpg

Flash bottom, left, right. Left & right flashes 2/3rds height of light tent, bottom flash 8" from bottom of tent. 
Left & right flash settings: 1/32 sec, 24mm
Bottom flash settings: 1/128 sec, 24mm

Camera settings throughout: 1/160 sec, F9

It's not looking too promising


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## Buckster (Aug 10, 2012)

phnoob said:


> Buckster said:
> 
> 
> > Like Charlie said, get them on an elevated piece of glass inside the light tent.
> ...


nope


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## phnoob (Aug 10, 2012)

Buckster said:


> phnoob said:
> 
> 
> > Buckster said:
> ...



Wouldn't there be reflections off the glass that would make the glass visible?


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## Buckster (Aug 10, 2012)

phnoob said:


> Buckster said:
> 
> 
> > phnoob said:
> ...


There shouldn't be.  It's like shooting pool or looking in a mirror.  If the light's not in a direct position to be reflected into your eyes off the mirror or glass (or into the camera lens), it simply won't be a reflection.  If you can't work that out for some reason, you could also use a polarizer, but it just shouldn't be an issue if your lights are positioned to the sides and possibly front of the tent.

See, most of the stuff you might shoot in a light tent is solid, opaque, not transparent, so it doesn't act the way those LEDs do when they're contaminating the color of the background they're sitting on because the light's shining through them.  With stuff like that, it needs to be "up in the air" so that the contamination is going off out of the frame of the shot into a part of the background not in the shot.  Since levitating stuff is till WAY in the future, you put it on something transparent, like glass that's elevated up inside the light tent acting like an invisible table to put the stuff on.

Making sense yet?


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## Buckster (Aug 10, 2012)

I think you really should set a custom white balance in your camera before you shoot too.  You should be able to remove the LEDs and use the white background to set it, then position the LEDs again for the actual shooting, using the custom white balance setting.  Consult your camera manual for how to do that, or watch a video on YouTube - there are usually a bunch of them on there.  It's easy to do.

Between that and the glass, you'll be able to get rid of all shadows, color contamination, and get a pure white background straight out of the camera, with maybe only minor tweaking to do in post processing if you want the LEDs a little more saturated or something, and possibly to crop, resize and do a final sharpen.


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## phnoob (Aug 10, 2012)

Thanks, Buckster. I will give all of that a try. I guess I need to go and buy a piece of glass 

Re-reading Charlie's posts, I definitely think he was saying to put the flash underneath the light tent. This is what he said:



cgipson1 said:


> you could probably get by with one flash each on the sides (say 3/4 of   the way up).. and *one underneath* / behind the components. You would have   to play with power levels...





cgipson1 said:


> The ones on the side should be fine for lighting the small items you are  shooting, especially if you get them up toward the top of the sides....  lots of soft diffused light. *The one underneath will light the base of the lightbox*...  turning it TOTALLY white. You will have to play with the power... you  want enough to make the base cloth slightly overexposed... but you dont  want so much that you get major splash on the items. Make sense?


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## Buckster (Aug 10, 2012)

phnoob said:


> Thanks, Buckster. I will give all of that a try. I guess I need to go and buy a piece of glass
> 
> Re-reading Charlie's posts, I definitely think he was saying to put the flash underneath the light tent. This is what he said:
> 
> ...


I see what you mean.  With a piece of glass inside the tent, you won't need it elevated, though you could shoot a third light under the glass onto the fabric under it from the front, or still elevate it and shoot it from underneath.  Either method will light up that bottom just fine.


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## cgipson1 (Aug 10, 2012)

You definitely got a WHITE background for the components... with shooting the bottom! The trouble is that there was too much! Need to cut back on the flash power significantly.. try to balance it, so you get white, but not so much it kills the subjects. That is why I said *"You would have   to play with power levels..."!* 

Buckster's idea is good also... normally if you are trying to blow out a background, you dont want the subjects too close to the background, as there can be light splash.


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## phnoob (Aug 10, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> You definitely got a WHITE background for the components... with shooting the bottom! The trouble is that there was too much! Need to cut back on the flash power significantly.. try to balance it, so you get white, but not so much it kills the subjects. That is why I said *"You would have   to play with power levels..."!*
> 
> Buckster's idea is good also... normally if you are trying to blow out a background, you dont want the subjects too close to the background, as there can be light splash.



The flash underneath was at its lowest power level, 1/128, but I tried moving the light tent further away from it and that reduced the brightness. I tried both that and also setting the LEDs on a plate of glass I just grabbed out of a picture frame, but the results were not much better than before. I'll try again tomorrow, I guess..


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## Sw1tchFX (Aug 10, 2012)

power isn't the problem, it's that you're working too close to your subjects. Think bigger. 

get a sheet of plexi. Not some 8x10 sheet, more like 4x4 feet. 

get some 4 1/2 foot white seamless. 

compose the picture

drop seamless in the background..some feet behind the subjects.

nuke the seamless with a flash

by now, you should have a pure white background and a silhouette of the pins.

pump a flash through some sort of diffusion material (such as a reflector panel or softbox)

now your background and subject are lit independently. 




That's how you do it:


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## amirchen (Aug 11, 2012)

try using a white plexiglass as the bottom of the set.


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## Buckster (Aug 11, 2012)

phnoob said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> > You definitely got a WHITE background for the components... with shooting the bottom! The trouble is that there was too much! Need to cut back on the flash power significantly.. try to balance it, so you get white, but not so much it kills the subjects. That is why I said *"You would have   to play with power levels..."!*
> ...


How high up in the tent was the glass?  It wasn't just sitting on the floor of the tent was it?


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## phnoob (Aug 11, 2012)

Buckster said:


> phnoob said:
> 
> 
> > cgipson1 said:
> ...



I held the glass probably 10" from the bottom. The flash was still underneath the light tent.




Sw1tchFX said:


> power isn't the problem, it's that you're working too close to your subjects. Think bigger.
> 
> get a sheet of plexi. Not some 8x10 sheet, more like 4x4 feet.
> 
> ...



A 4x4' piece of plexiglass?

Could you explain what you mean by "white seamless"?

How would you place the flashes with your setup?

That picture looks great, by the way!


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## Sw1tchFX (Aug 11, 2012)

You don't have to use plexi..any glass without color would work, it just needs to be durable and completely transparent. And yes, 4 by 4 feet, the bigger, the better, it allows for more than one angle. 

Seamless is giant rolls of paper. 

if you've got the glass on sawhorses, just put a head or two underneath the glass pointing at the seamless, and another head on the subject. light them independent.


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