# Don't Be Rude infront of your Customers



## TheFantasticG (Mar 21, 2012)

The Question: You've been in the photography business almost 20 years. This 
isn't your first gig. How do you act in a National/State Park while 
photographing a couple?

The Story: I had a wonderful time as did my Wife 
and my two friends on their wedding day. We have been planning for months to 
visit the Valley of Fire for post-wedding photography and knowing that there 
might be a permit required I decided to contact the park. I emailed Mrs. Sandra 
twice, and then called. During that call I was informed that since this was not 
a commercial event i.e. no financial gain from the photography, and the party is 
well under XX people (I don't remember the exact number), there was no need for 
a permit. I was the best man in the wedding for my best friend of almost twenty 
years. After the ceremony and the post-wedding lunch, my wife, the new bride 
& groom, and myself went to the Valley of Fire. We were awe struck by the 
bueaty of the park. I could see now why this is a popular venue for wedding 
photography. We stopped at the Bee Hives first, then looked at the map and 
agreed on the Arch Rock. Had fun there then went onto the Seven Sisters. That 
was when our fun began... There was a photographer from "Scenic 
Tours" who was there performing commercial work at the Seven Sisters site 
around 15:00 Saturday afternoon when the winds were gusting furiously upwards of 
40-50 mph. This "professional" photographer, Trey Tomsik, decided that his 
permit covered the entire state park which included no one using any other part 
of the park. and took it upon himself to harass myself and my two friends whom I 
was not paid by to image their wedding photos at the park until we started 
heading back to our car. I tried rationalizing with him that I had checked 
previously with park Management (Mrs. Sandra Huffman) so that if I needed a 
permit I would get one but because of the reasons we discussed on the phone it 
was decided I did not need a permit. When I tried kindly to tell him that the 
park does not issue a permit of such magnitude he started getting irate because 
we would not leave right away. He kept repeating he has the park permitted. No 
other wedding photography (unpaid or paid) is to be occurring at the same time 
anywhere else in the park. So, we took a ride to the range station four miles in 
on the left from the entrance to the park for me to speak with personnel there. 
After confirming with a nice lady (whom remembers me calling a few months ago 
about the permit requirements) that I do not need a permit under these 
stipulations and cannot permit "the entire park" as he stated. 
In fact, she said if there wasnt already an emergency in progress they would have had the 
resources to deal with a commercial entity harassing other paying tourist. 
Bothers me that if he had such all-inclusive permit why would he not simply 
produce it and we can be on our marry way? Why get belligerent, argumentative, 
and rude when we were showing no disrespect to him? I.e. staying out his shots. 
It's understood on my photography web sites and forums that the Valley of Fire 
is a well known destination for wedding photography and cinema projects. I've 
been to many many state/federal parks in the southeast US and have never run 
into any one who had been so grotesque in character and manners. The Valley of 
Fire has been the first venue that I got into an altercation with any person 
holding a camera. I honestly thought at one point I was going to be forced to 
use self protection measures for my Wife and friends.

The Answer: If you 
are in the middle of performing on location spot at a national/state park *do 
not* act in such a matter so that one could describe you as having a 
grotesque character and monsterous manners. You're doing it wrong.


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## 12sndsgood (Mar 21, 2012)

if i was with clients I would act as professional as possible and let the other guy look poorly.   if i was with my friends who know me. after talking with the lady confirming you were fine, I would have went back up there and gotten my pictures.


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## The_Traveler (Mar 21, 2012)

Why not lodge a formal complaint with the entity that issues permits?


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## TheFantasticG (Mar 21, 2012)

We did. We filed complaints with the Nevada State Parks and the Southern Nevada BBB. This is just a reminder to those in the business. He could have handled himself in a much more professional manner. Hell, I could have hired him when my Wife and I go back to Vegas to renew our vows. But, he screwed the pooch on that one. And that's the moral of the story.


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## jwbryson1 (Mar 21, 2012)

How about breaking down your story into several, manageable paragraphs so people will read it?  I stopped after several lines because it's nearly impossible to read.


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## Crollo (Mar 21, 2012)

Why not just try to make an effort to read it? I didn't even _notice_ it was so unformatted until you said so.


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## MReid (Mar 21, 2012)

Yes bad form on his part.
Assuming the story went exactly as you tell it.

Hard to imagine why a person would act that way, it is always easier to explain things in a way that builds bridges, assuming a receptive party,  than to do it like this fellow did.


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## CCericola (Mar 21, 2012)

I would have ignored him and went about my business. It's not like you were in the wrong unless you were interfering with their shots. (purposefully getting in the background, etc...) I'm confused as to why you would link their website? Do you secretly work for them and want to drum up web activity?


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## raider (Mar 21, 2012)

"to make a long story short..."


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## TheFantasticG (Mar 21, 2012)

jwbryson1 said:


> How about breaking down your story into several, manageable paragraphs so people will read it?  I stopped after several lines because it's nearly impossible to read.



Wait, what? It's in one paragraph because it's one idea. Not multiple ideas. It's english. It's not difficult to understand. It's written in a very understandable language and context. If you do not want to read it, then don't.


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## TheFantasticG (Mar 21, 2012)

MReid said:


> Yes bad form on his part.
> Assuming the story went exactly as you tell it.
> 
> Hard to imagine why a person would act that way, it is always easier to explain things in a way that builds bridges, assuming a receptive party,  than to do it like this fellow did.



I have retold it as best as I can remember. No more, no less.


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## TheFantasticG (Mar 21, 2012)

CCericola said:


> I would have ignored him and went about my business. It's not like you were in the wrong unless you were interfering with their shots. (purposefully getting in the background, etc...) I'm confused as to why you would link their website? Do you secretly work for them and want to drum up web activity?



As far as I could tell we were not interfering with his shots. If we were, he did not voice that. When I noticed him, his customers were facing me, and he was headed towards us, yelling at us about his permit. I linked to his websites so you would know who I was referring to, nothing more.


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## fokker (Mar 21, 2012)

TheFantasticG said:


> jwbryson1 said:
> 
> 
> > How about breaking down your story into several, manageable paragraphs so people will read it?  I stopped after several lines because it's nearly impossible to read.
> ...



Kind of a belligerent response there from a guy busy railing against belligerent photographers dontcha think?


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## The_Traveler (Mar 22, 2012)

TheFantasticG said:


> jwbryson1 said:
> 
> 
> > How about breaking down your story into several, manageable paragraphs so people will read it?  I stopped after several lines because it's nearly impossible to read.
> ...



That's not the way it works.
You break the writing the way you take a breath when you're talking, to give people a chance to absorb what you've written and to understand that a specific point has been made.
If people have trouble reading it, especially in the screen where reading is even more difficult, than you break it up to allow them to comprehend better.

On the other hand, your attitude makes me start to wonder that there might be another side to this issue that hasn't been addressed in your story.


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## tirediron (Mar 22, 2012)

There are two sides to every storey; we have only heard one, therefore, in fairness, we cannot make any sort of judgement.  Regardless of how impartial  you feel your re-telling was, it's human nature to remember events in the way that suits us; that is why when police interview five eye-witnesses to a crime, they often get five different versions of the events.

With respect to the paragraph issue, while it is one idea, there are multiple thoughts relating to that idea.  Each of those thoughts should be represented as a paragraph.


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## jwbryson1 (Mar 22, 2012)

I'm not attacking the guy.  I just found this terribly difficult to read because when I try to read it, it comes at me in the same way the words would come to me from a guy who just finished running a marathon and, after passing the finish line, tried to describe the race to me in detail.  One long, exhausting soliloquy.


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## raider (Mar 22, 2012)

why is 
it written
like this??


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## 2WheelPhoto (Mar 22, 2012)

At least you didn't handle it such as some may have.


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## TheFantasticG (Mar 22, 2012)

tirediron said:


> There are two sides to every storey; we have only heard one, therefore, in fairness, we cannot make any sort of judgement.  Regardless of how impartial  you feel your re-telling was, it's human nature to remember events in the way that suits us; that is why when police interview five eye-witnesses to a crime, they often get five different versions of the events.


 
Fair enough. I'd love to know what the couple that he was photographing were thinking because they looked very very confused.


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## Crollo (Mar 22, 2012)

tirediron said:


> There are two sides to every storey; we have only heard one, therefore, in fairness, we cannot make any sort of judgement.  Regardless of how impartial  you feel your re-telling was, it's human nature to remember events in the way that suits us;



Not necessarily, it's often a case of both sides knowing things that they in piss-poor intents don't bother to tell the other side, therefore chaos of misunderstandings and misjudgements ensue.


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## gsgary (Mar 23, 2012)

I would have given him a slap and carried on the shoot


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## CMfromIL (Mar 26, 2012)

2WheelPhoto said:


> At least you didn't handle it such as some may have.



Nice shovel.  Why is the gun cocked?


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## cgipson1 (Mar 26, 2012)

CMfromIL said:


> 2WheelPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > At least you didn't handle it such as some may have.
> ...



cocked and locked is the norm for some autos.. especially if you need it in a hurry!


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## 2WheelPhoto (Mar 26, 2012)

Yeah and my gun can do more damage than my assistant with my meter =)


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## CMfromIL (Mar 26, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> cocked and locked is the norm for some autos.. especially if you need it in a hurry!



If you need it in a hurry, I'd suggest not leaving it on the floor next to your shovel.  Just seemed sort of careless.  I get the imagery, just not the point of having it cocked.  Carry on.


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## megdagooch (Mar 26, 2012)

I didn't notice the post being difficult to read ( on my iPhone). I also didn't think the OP was rude. But the attitude I sometimes find on here is what keeps me from posting as much as I do in other forums.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Mar 26, 2012)

megdagooch said:


> I didn't notice the post being difficult to read ( on my iPhone). I also didn't think the OP was rude. But the attitude I sometimes find on here is what keeps me from posting as much as I do in other forums.



My gun pic is a joke with no ill-will intended


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## The_Traveler (Mar 26, 2012)

megdagooch said:


> I didn't notice the post being difficult to read ( on my iPhone). I also didn't think the OP was rude. But the attitude I sometimes find on here is what keeps me from posting as much as I do in other forums.



No one suggested that the OP was rude, only that he make his post a bit easier to read by adding a couple of paragraph breaks.


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## CMfromIL (Mar 26, 2012)

The_Traveler said:


> No one suggested that the OP was rude, only that he make his post a bit easier to read by adding a couple of paragraph breaks.



Heyatleastheusedspacesbetweenhiswords. Wouldhavetakenmoreefforttoreadifhehadn't.


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