# Why I shoot in Auto ISO with birds....w/pics



## Didereaux (Jan 12, 2016)

In another posting I explained the settings I was playing with for shooting birds, particularly moving ones.  I set the camera to M mode, the shutter speed to 1.5x 1/focal length(I am old and rather shaky and this could just as easily be 1/focal length as is usually recommended) in the following I shot these @ F7.1

Why do I ignore the ISO?  One very good nature photographer on here called me on it and said he does not shoot at the higher ISO's.  My reasoning is this.  If you insist on low ISO then you will miss a large number of opportunities.  With birds, especially small birds in the early hours and in the bushes you simply won't get a shot...not even with a tripod because they move around to quickly.  Remember that as the light gets better the ISO automatically drops.

Will you get photos that can be blown up to poster size?  No, but you will get lots that can be taken up to 8x10 and even 11x14.  Just as importantly almost all will be suitable as ID shots. So here are some quick shots I made about an hour ago in the backyard just for illustration purposes.  The camera used was a Canon 6D, and the lens a 100-400 IS USM L lens.  All were adj for noise, lens, sharpness and exposure in LR6.

@3200 ISO






@8000 ISO





@12800 ISO






@16000 ISO


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## squirl033 (Jan 12, 2016)

i do the same thing with my 7DII.


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## Overread (Jan 12, 2016)

The only reason I don't use auto ISO more is that I don't have an ISO priority mode. I think the 7DMII and such can do this, but whilst I can fix aperture and shutterspeed I can't use exposure compensation with auto ISO - if I could chances are I would use it more as there are times where I've shot where aperture and shutterspeed at at their limits and fixed and the ISO is the only thing I can really vary


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## Didereaux (Jan 12, 2016)

squirl033 said:


> i do the same thing with my 7DII.




I picked that up from a comment made by Tom Manglesen on one of his videos.  It was just a quick aside he made to one of his students.


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## Didereaux (Jan 12, 2016)

Overread said:


> The only reason I don't use auto ISO more is that I don't have an ISO priority mode. I think the 7DMII and such can do this, but whilst I can fix aperture and shutterspeed I can't use exposure compensation with auto ISO - if I could chances are I would use it more as there are times where I've shot where aperture and shutterspeed at at their limits and fixed and the ISO is the only thing I can really vary



Can't speak for the 7D mkII, but both the 7D, and the 6D lack that feature, but remember auto ISO allows fractional ISO's so you get some funky numbers occasionally.    But in Manual mode you do not really need compensation so much...at least for the type of shots I am describing here.  Manual mode with auto ISO is not really manual if you look at it closely.  ISO priority would be of no benefit in this type of shooting.   But aren't you really in a sort of priority ISO mode in full manual, but not on auto ISO?


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## Didereaux (Jan 12, 2016)

<chuckle>  this thread made me do what I should have done first....google it!    Found a YouTube that explains it PERFECTLY!


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## astroNikon (Jan 12, 2016)

When I do birds or soccer on my Nikon d600 (and d7000 previously) I would always select my Shutter and Aperture (for subject isolation) with the ISO on AUTO with a Max setting.  I know when noise is too much so for my d600 (for daytime) I'll set the max to 2000 just in case a shot is into the shadows.  

It saves a lot of time adjusting the ISO manually and you can get the shot as quickly as possible.


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## ronlane (Jan 12, 2016)

I have done this on my 7DmkII as well when shooting football. I set a maximum ISO and that allows for changes in lighting at HS fields at night. I think that the results were good when I did this.


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## JacaRanda (Jan 12, 2016)

7DmkII also.  At this point, it's always Manual, Auto ISO limited most often to 6400.  Even C1, C2, and C3 are set the same way.


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## ronlane (Jan 12, 2016)

Ysarex said:


> Looks like you shot film. How did you get the negative digitized to this positive image?
> 
> Joe
> 
> P.S. Welcome to TPF





Didereaux said:


> <chuckle>  this thread made me do what I should have done first....google it!    Found a YouTube that explains it PERFECTLY!



Thanks Didereaux for sharing this video. This is what I am doing but it does a great job of explaining the whys.


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## squirl033 (Jan 12, 2016)

Didereaux said:


> Can't speak for the 7D mkII, but both the 7D, and the 6D lack that feature, but remember auto ISO allows fractional ISO's so you get some funky numbers occasionally.    But in Manual mode you do not really need compensation so much...at least for the type of shots I am describing here.  Manual mode with auto ISO is not really manual if you look at it closely.  ISO priority would be of no benefit in this type of shooting.   But aren't you really in a sort of priority ISO mode in full manual, but not on auto ISO?



the 7DII allows you to use exposure comp with auto ISO in Manual. it's not an "on-the-fly" adjustment - you have to access the quick menu on the viewscreen to change it - but it's handy when you know you may be up against some dynamic range or backlighting issues. yes, sometimes the ISO numbers look a little odd, since it selects the minimum ISO value needed for a proper exposure, but to be honest, i don't care about that as long as the image looks good. i suppose letting the camera set the ISO takes you out of the fully "manual" mode to a degree, but i'm not gonna quibble with the results...


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## JacaRanda (Jan 12, 2016)

squirl033 said:


> Didereaux said:
> 
> 
> > Can't speak for the 7D mkII, but both the 7D, and the 6D lack that feature, but remember auto ISO allows fractional ISO's so you get some funky numbers occasionally.    But in Manual mode you do not really need compensation so much...at least for the type of shots I am describing here.  Manual mode with auto ISO is not really manual if you look at it closely.  ISO priority would be of no benefit in this type of shooting.   But aren't you really in a sort of priority ISO mode in full manual, but not on auto ISO?
> ...



Not true.  Go to your custom button function and change your setting.  I have mine setup to push the set button in the middle of the back dial, while rotating the top dial to change exposure compensation while in Manual / Auto Iso.


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## ronlane (Jan 12, 2016)

squirl033 said:


> Didereaux said:
> 
> 
> > Can't speak for the 7D mkII, but both the 7D, and the 6D lack that feature, but remember auto ISO allows fractional ISO's so you get some funky numbers occasionally.    But in Manual mode you do not really need compensation so much...at least for the type of shots I am describing here.  Manual mode with auto ISO is not really manual if you look at it closely.  ISO priority would be of no benefit in this type of shooting.   But aren't you really in a sort of priority ISO mode in full manual, but not on auto ISO?
> ...



Yeah, that is the down side but I press the Q button and set the menu on the exposure comp, so I can do it all with my thumb on the back of the camera. (I use the mk II as well)


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## JacaRanda (Jan 12, 2016)

ronlane said:


> squirl033 said:
> 
> 
> > Didereaux said:
> ...



You don't have to go into the menu.


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## JacaRanda (Jan 12, 2016)

Here you go.

I should have said change the buttons in custom controls not function.

Canon DLC: Article: Auto ISO operation in the EOS 7D Mark II


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## ronlane (Jan 12, 2016)

I don't go to the menu. I can hit the Q button with my thumb and rotate the dial on the back with the same thumb and set EC. This way I'm not setting up and custom functions and can still use those buttons and dials as they were intended.


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## Derrel (Jan 12, 2016)

Yes, Auto ISO has become more and more viable as sensors have grown better. With slower zoom lenses, using Auto ISO makes a lot of sense. I tried it first in the summer of 2014, and was immediately enthused with how well it worked under tricky shooting conditions. My sense is that Auto ISO's actual implementation differs a bit based on the manufacturer, and the camera model/era, with "some" cameras allowing dead-easy exposure compensation in Auto ISO in Manual mode, as well as "some" camera models/generations allowing upper and lower limits, and in a sense, a more-complete or less-complete set of parameters that Auto ISO will use.

Years ago, like 10 years ago, Nikon's Auto ISO was well behind the system Pentax had developed; Pentax actually had an actual Auto-ISO centric camera control dial position which was designed to allow the user to pick a shutter speed and an f/stop, with the camera automatically selecting the right ISO level; at one time, that system was simply unheard of from any other maker. Nikon basically shifted to that capability, but without the dial-specific exposure mode, just allowing full auto ISO in Manual mode.


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## DarkShadow (Jan 12, 2016)

Pentax has a different way of doing things.Manual Mode there is no Auto ISO but In TAV (Time Value - Aperture Value) You control the shutter and aperture while having Auto ISO.However with Exposure Comp Override will In increases or decreases the ISO other then what camera picks. Another press of Exposure Comp and Green Button reset Zeros the Comp and back to Auto ISO that the camera picks.Thats the mode I lived In with Auto ISO quick over ride and reset.I recently sold off everything awaiting the Nikon D500 but will miss many things about the Pentax way other then the the AF-C  focusing.


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## bulldurham (Jan 12, 2016)

I used this technique yesterday for better captures of head on fast movers and was pleasantly surprised that I was quite successful.


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## Derrel (Jan 12, 2016)

bulldurham said:
			
		

> I used this technique yesterday for better captures of head on fast movers and was pleasantly surprised that I was quite successful.



Pretty sure TPF's *coastalconn*, aka Kristofer Rowe, used Auto ISO with EC when he was shooting a Nikon...and he shot a lllllllllot of bird photos. Not sure on how he's handling his current Canon-camera bird photography though.


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## coastalconn (Jan 12, 2016)

Derrel said:


> bulldurham said:
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> 
> 
> ...


LOL, thought my name might popup in this thread.  Yes indeed, used it with all my Nikon's and it was one of the first questions I asked when snooping around about the 7Dm2.  So yes you can use EC with the 7dm2 and I have it setup like Jaca above.  Set button and dial.  I almost always shoot in manual mode with spot metering and go up in EC as the light goes down.  It is one thing that bums me out about the 1D4, no EC in manual.  So depending on the light, I either shoot in full manual, TV with EC since the 500 F4 is pretty much sharp wide open and the camera tends to stop it down to F4.5 anyways, or manual with Auto ISO when the light is pretty decent.


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## bulldurham (Jan 12, 2016)

Ah, the missing link for my idle brain...EC..of course.


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## astroNikon (Jan 13, 2016)

bulldurham said:


> Ah, the missing link for my idle brain...EC..of course.


there's a whole thread about EC from last month as it works differently between Canon and Nikon. ==> Exposure compensation explanation/help


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## coastalconn (Jan 13, 2016)

astroNikon said:


> bulldurham said:
> 
> 
> > Ah, the missing link for my idle brain...EC..of course.
> ...


I read through that thread and there is nothing in there specifically about wildlife.  Shooting inside buildings, people and landscape I can agree it is not nearly as useful as wildlife.  Those genres are all somewhat controlled environments..  Take this shot for instance..



Osprey Two-fer 8_17 7 by Kristofer Rowe, on Flickr
Where the Ospreys were diving was directly into the sun and the exposure changed depending on where they dove in relation to the sun.  After so many mornings of tinkering I found that +1 2/3 EC with spot metering would give me the exposure I needed.  Unless you are incredibly talented in full manual and can change your ISO at 6 FPS then many from this series would have been missed.  You never know where birds are going to come from and I can quickly change EC if one appears behind me instead of trying to raise the ISO by 3 stops or more.  Someone called it a crutch in that thread you linked to, I would love to take them out for one day and shoot what and where I shoot and see who has more keepers


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## bulldurham (Jan 13, 2016)

"After so many mornings of tinkering I found that +1 2/3 EC with spot metering would give me the exposure I needed"

And as long as I have been shooting, this should have been a no brainer....but then shooting auto ISO should have been as well....love it when this old dog can learn a new trick. Thanks, Kristopher for the insight and wonderful photos you continue to produce...this two-fer shot is as good a shot as I've ever seen.


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## bulldurham (Jan 13, 2016)

Except I just discovered EC won't work in M exposure mode on the Nikon D810. Will tinker between shutter and aperture priority modes with the auto ISO feature enabled to use the EC controls.


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## coastalconn (Jan 13, 2016)

bulldurham said:


> Except I just discovered EC won't work in M exposure mode on the Nikon D810. Will tinker between shutter and aperture priority modes with the auto ISO feature enabled to use the EC controls.


It should. Every Nikon camera I ever shot including the d800 could do EC in manual.. IIRC hold the +/- and turn the thumb wheel?


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## ronlane (Jan 13, 2016)

coastalconn said:


> I would love to take them out for one day and shoot what and where I shoot and see who has more keepers



It wasn't me that said it but I would really enjoy going out and shooting for a day (or five) with you. [I think I will do it your way, so I get plenty of keepers, as you seem to have some great results.]


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## bulldurham (Jan 13, 2016)

Well, Silly Me must have done something wrong the first time because it worked just fine a few minutes ago..not the most exciting bird to shoot but always handy around my house.


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## CarlosFrazao (Jan 13, 2016)

coastalconn said:


> bulldurham said:
> 
> 
> > Except I just discovered EC won't work in M exposure mode on the Nikon D810. Will tinker between shutter and aperture priority modes with the auto ISO feature enabled to use the EC controls.
> ...



Nope unfortunately that's untrue I have a Nikon d7000 and thought my camera was faulty because I couldn't change the exposure in Manuel mode, took it to Nikon and they said you can't change it in Nikon you change your exposure meter by changing your ISO.


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## coastalconn (Jan 13, 2016)

CarlosFrazao said:


> coastalconn said:
> 
> 
> > bulldurham said:
> ...


Try again.. Put your ISO in auto. Then change EC.. It works, I briefly had a D7000.. EC will not change anything if you are in manual and have your ISO set..  But auto ISO is different


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## CarlosFrazao (Jan 13, 2016)

coastalconn said:


> CarlosFrazao said:
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> 
> > coastalconn said:
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Ok i will try that Aswell like I said that's what the Nikon representative told me so then you believe the guy lol


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## bulldurham (Jan 13, 2016)

Don't, it works fine...at least on the D810


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## beagle100 (Jan 14, 2016)

works fine for me on a 60D


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## coastalconn (Jan 14, 2016)

beagle100 said:


> works fine for me on a 60D


It shouldn't... Very few Canons allow you to change EC with auto ISO in manual.. The 60D is on the shouldn't work list..  Auto ISO should work fine though..


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## gckless (Jan 15, 2016)

What I don't get is why someone had a problem with this. I use auto ISO (with a max ISO setting), and it's clear others do. Does it make you less of a photog? Nope. There is so much of the elitist "I control it fully manual so I'm better than you" mentalities floating around, and it's both annoying and detrimental. A camera is a tool, every person should know how to use it to capture the best images they can. I don't understand why it's a problem if you let the tool do some of work, so you can maybe focus on more important things.

Why use an electric drill when you could do it with hand tools? Why drive an automatic car when you could have a manual? Why use a washing machine or dishwasher when you could do those by hand?


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## DarkShadow (Jan 15, 2016)




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## Didereaux (Jan 15, 2016)

DarkShadow said:


>



That link was posted on pg 1 of this thread.  It is a good one.


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## DarkShadow (Jan 15, 2016)

Oops I either missed that or forget.It is a good one,Very clear and easy t understand.


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