# Trespassing Question



## nkmaurer (Aug 20, 2008)

My business has been in my basement.....or now my parent's basement since I just got married and moved out. We are currently renting trying to figure out what option would be best for us. House, where my business would be on the property either in basement or building. Or have my business in a seperate location. 

My question would be.....a couple buildings went up for sale in an area I love taking seniors too. A 'downtown' area of a small town nearby.  Usually I just go walking around taking pictures w/ them, but I didn't know if that was even legal. The businesses around have such neat doors, fences, stairs etc....but, if I moved my business over there would I still be able to do that since it would be daily. Do you just ask each business if they would mind or what?? Also, for those who do on location a lot...I take my cousins up and down streets all the time. But from a parent's view, what would they normally think about traffic going by? From a safety standpoint as well as people watching? 

I obviously live in the middle of nowhere right now. Just trying to figure out my options.  Thanks for any help!


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## photo28 (Aug 20, 2008)

I think if you ask the store owner if it is ok he'll let you.


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## ksmattfish (Aug 20, 2008)

If you really think it's trespassing never involve you clients or business in it.  If it's just wandering over to a doorway off a public location, and you aren't bothering the business or their clients then it's probably not a big deal.  Asking permission is the best policy, although plenty of people will say no purely because of liability implications.

EDIT:  I was just thinking of all the portraits I've seen with railroad tracks in them.  That's always trespassing and it's usually well posted.


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## ShutterBug357 (Aug 21, 2008)

In addition to asking businesses for their permission, you may want to check town regulations, especially if you're going to take pictures in downtown areas.  A lot of cities and towns have codes that require you to get a permit to take pictures.  Just something to think about and check out!


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## skieur (Aug 21, 2008)

Legally in the U.S. you can take photos in any public place and that is defined in law as any place to which the general public has access whether privately owned or not.  You can also sell those photos you took, but not for advertising purposes.

As to tresspassing, unless the property is signed or has a locked gate or fence that you have climbed over etc., then you are not tresspassing until you are asked to leave and do not do so.

skieur


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## RMThompson (Aug 21, 2008)

ShutterBug357 said:


> In addition to asking businesses for their permission, you may want to check town regulations, especially if you're going to take pictures in downtown areas. A lot of cities and towns have codes that require you to get a permit to take pictures. Just something to think about and check out!


 

Just wrong.

As Skieur more eloquently mentioned, public property can be photographed at all times, and you can take all the pictrues of private property as long as you are not trespassing.

If (and when) you DO trespas you still retain all rights to your photographs, the act of taking the picture and the act of trespassing are two VERY different things. Unless you were stealing (taking pictures of) business information from a private business, or sensetive government information you can still publish your photos.

While were on the subject you can also take and sell photos of anyone you see on the street, but you cannot use them for advertisement purposes. You cannot take pictures of people who have a reasonable feeling of privacy, those in their houses with the windows shut, etc. Also, reasonable expectation of privacy includes clothing now, so you cannot take pictures up a skirt, or down a shirt even in public. 

What else am I missing?


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## skieur (Aug 21, 2008)

RMThompson said:


> Just wrong.
> 
> As Skieur more eloquently mentioned, public property can be photographed at all times, and you can take all the pictrues of private property as long as you are not trespassing.
> 
> What else am I missing?


 
Not quite correct. A public place(not necessarily public property) can be photographed without breaking any law or "at all times" to use your words.

To clarify the issue of private property a little more, taking pictures of private property whether you are trespassing or not, is NOT against the law either.  The trespassing may be..but the picture taking isn't.  Private property may also be a public place such as a mall, museum, library etc.

skieur


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## ShutterBug357 (Aug 22, 2008)

Then the law enforcement in my town needs to be corrected.  I was taking pictures downtown and was told that it was against my town's regulations and that a permit was required, especially if the photographs are intended for monetary gain.  But who knows.  Maybe they are wrong, as they have been before.


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## photogincollege (Aug 22, 2008)

I can say this from experience, and from other people on this very forum.  Usually law  enforcement and security arent very informed on photography laws.


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## Easy_Target (Aug 22, 2008)

ShutterBug357 said:


> In addition to asking businesses for their permission, you may want to check town regulations, especially if you're going to take pictures in downtown areas.  A lot of cities and towns have codes that require you to get a permit to take pictures.  Just something to think about and check out!


Absolutely not true. If they do it can be challenged on constitutional grounds for infringing free speech (photography as a means of expressing yourself). 



ShutterBug357 said:


> Then the law enforcement in my town needs to be corrected.  I was taking pictures downtown and was told that it was against my town's regulations and that a permit was required, especially if the photographs are intended for monetary gain.  But who knows.  Maybe they are wrong, as they have been before.


 The law enforcement in your town lied to you, much like most law enforcement. Few if any law enforcement know half (let alone all) the laws currently in effect within their jurisdiction. When they come across something they aren't sure of, they make it up on the spot.


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## ShutterBug357 (Aug 22, 2008)

Well, awesome.  I feel much better now that I know I won't be arrested next time I see something I'd like to photograph downtown!


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## Pure Captures (Aug 22, 2008)

While you may be perfectly in your rights to take pictures of anything in public, you're also doing business.  So make sure you are licensed to do business.  You don't want to give any cranky cops an alternative reason to harrass you (hopefully you're police are nicer than that anyhow).
Safety of traffic going by is an important concern, really for you even moreso than your subjects.  I wouldn't let it deter me at all, but you should make sure that you don't get so caught up in taking pictures that you forget where you are and end up stepping somewhere you don't want to be (like in front of a car).  If you and your subjects stay mindful of your surroundings it shouldn't be a big deal though.

Matthew Block
http://www.purecaptures.com


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## skates94 (Aug 22, 2008)

Easy_Target said:


> Absolutely not true. If they do it can be challenged on constitutional grounds for infringing free speech (photography as a means of expressing yourself).
> 
> The law enforcement in your town lied to you, much like most law enforcement. Few if any law enforcement know half (let alone all) the laws currently in effect within their jurisdiction. When they come across something they aren't sure of, they make it up on the spot.


 
Wow... what a thread. Haven't posted here in a long time but somethings just jump out at you.

Easy_Target is absolutely right.... as a Police Officer for the past 8 years I will be the first to admit that I don't know every Local, County, State, and Federal Law. However, making something up on the spot is not something that a "Professional" Police Officer would do. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen but be more careful when making a general statement. If I don't know the law then I ask questions and do my research...... if I find out later you did indeed break a law we can arrest you then.


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## roadkill (Aug 22, 2008)

Take your pictures.  If anyone messes with you take comfort that you are in all likelihood standing on the legal high ground.  Do your research though.  You have a ton of rights.


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## redtippmann (Aug 24, 2008)

link to photographers rights


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## THORHAMMER (Aug 26, 2008)

whats for monetary gain and whats commercial are 2 different but confusing things sometimes. If you are shooting commercially for an advertisment thats definately commercial work, but if you are shooting art and plan to offer it on your site for sale as stock or prints that falls under artistic use the difference is you are working for yourself , not contracted by another for those specific shots for their campaign. 

Basically youll get in trouble if you go around with models and lights on sidewalk cause you will be hard pressed to show its art, but technically you could be working on a group art project , who knows but then the city probably has a cheap permit to allow the use of lights and all that cause youll be distracting to drivers and taking up a lot of the sidewalk. 

most of the time youll be ok by yourself or with a tripod, (without models / makeup people)
if someone tells you you need a permit and your really just shooting for art reasons ask him why ? Hes got no awnser as long as your on public property or sidewalk, and breaking no city ordinance, dont sweat it. 

If your a full time stock shooter and everytime you leave the house your thinking of the next shot its still not commercial really even, you dont know which shots will sell ? your werent comissioned ahead of time for thoe shots. Its the same as sitting at the park and painting something and then you find a buyer a month later. NOT commercial. 

Mostly they will ask you if your a pro, or that you are taking a picture of private property. 

The logic here is ridiculous : 

IE: rally cross drivers are pros, but they drive family cars to get groceries, Clowns go to friends bday parties as guests, muscians play pianos for fun sometimes, and photographers go out for fun and shoot things. The difference is the strobes and gear, rally car, clown makeup and recording studio filled with corporate ears. Should the rally car driver qualify and pay race gas price to drive the station wagon down the street at speed limit ? NO. 

The same cop who tells you because you might someday monetarily gain from the shots (in a stock agency) that its commercial (its not) will also be that cop who moonlights after hours bodyguarding a govt building while wearing his uniform and putting wear and tear on the cities police car but pocketing the money for bodyguarding 3701 N. Fairfax Drive in arlington. (real case) 


The other thing is private property which has pretty much been covered here allready.


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