# I Need to be More Proactive.. Tips on Making Money?



## D-B-J

So, here's the deal.  I never began photography to make money. It's a hobby, always has been and always will be.  That being said, I've reached the point where all the gear I want is getting expensive. It's hard to justify thousands a year for gear when I don't make money on it, and am a grad student.  That being said, I'd like to try and be more proactive about it. I'd like to try and make enough to cover some new gear each year.  Here's my thoughts:

-Go to local places and see if they'll hang my work. Coffeeshops. Bakeries. In coastal towns, where I have photos from that town. Offer a percent of profits if I sell, etc. Cost? Print& frame, and the time energy and effort to go to all these places.

-Enter myself in local art fairs, farmer markets, etc.  Show up with framed/matted works for sale, etc. Cost? A lot of overhead on this one.  Need a mat cutter, mat board, prints, plastic sleeves, entrance/fees, etc. Could get really pricey for little to no return. Big gamble.

-Be more active on my website. Posting blog articles about photo tips. How to's. Behind the scenes. Being more active with content and info, rather than trying to get people to my site with "I have prints for sale!" posts. Cost? Time.

-Piggybacking on the above, sending out monthly email newsletters with info on new images, blog posts, etc.  Cost? Time.

-Go to local photo clubs and sell myself.  I've given a talk on landscape/long exposures, and would love to further that.  Cost? Time.  Big benefit here--I'll make money AND establish myself as a landscape photographer, which is my ultimate goal. Also be able to meet/network, and get people to my workshops next year.

-Host workshops. I have an in with a local photo shop--and I've had people interested in post processing workshops, and more photo workshops.  Cost? Time and effort. This ones tricky, as I'm so busy with school. However, this is also my favorite way to make money. I love to teach others about what I do and how to do it.

-Edit | Enter photo contests. It's a great way to gain recognition and add credentials to my portfolio.  Cost? Depends on the contest. 



I know it's a long post, but that's where I'm at.  I don't care about being rich from photography.  I am currently on a scholarship of sorts for graduate school, and will have a career as an oceanographer.  I just want to make enough to support my addiction. Maybe make enough to travel for landscapes.

What insights do YOU have.  What have you learned about the above? Do some things work better than others?

Cheers!
Jake


----------



## The_Traveler

Or you could stop spending money on new gear, learn to make do with what you have and not waste time on distorting your interests just to make money.


----------



## D-B-J

The_Traveler said:


> Or you could stop spending money on new gear, learn to make do with what you have and not waste time on distorting your interests just to make money.




True.  But I'm a gear junkie. I love new gear, almost as much as I love photography. Filters, lenses, everything. I love getting higher and higher quality gear, as that leads to higher quality products. OR, what if I made a few extra dollars to buy gifts for my family? Go on a vacation with my GF?  I'm good, good enough to make money. So why don't I try?

Jake


----------



## 480sparky

Ever consider just charging more?


----------



## D-B-J

480sparky said:


> Ever consider just charging more?



Doesn't make sense to me.  If nobody buys a $135 20x30" print, why would they buy one for $200?  I make enough per print percentage wise, I just don't sell any.  I make good monies from workshops (well, good IMO).  The last one grossed 500, netted closer to 425 for 6 hours of work. Worth it to me.  Just need to explore and be more active. I need to establish myself more than I currently have.  There's few to nobody who does the kind of landscapes I do and teaches about it in this area. I need to capitalize on that.

Jake


----------



## Designer

D-B-J said:


> I'm good, good enough to make money. So why don't I try?


Be aware that your attitude may change when you are "in it for the money".  

I think the most successful professional photographers have retained a love of photography and making art, and are happy to do so, knowing subconsiously that the money will follow.


----------



## D-B-J

Designer said:


> D-B-J said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm good, good enough to make money. So why don't I try?
> 
> 
> 
> Be aware that your attitude may change when you are "in it for the money".
> 
> I think the most successful professional photographers have retained a love of photography and making art, and are happy to do so, knowing subconsiously that the money will follow.
Click to expand...


Yes, I do know that.  I'll never be in it for the money, that's why I'm in graduate school for something entirely unrelated. My academic passion is science, specifically studying how ocean acidification effects nearshore fish. A topic I want to study for the rest of my life. 

Photography is a hobby and a passion.  I never want it or need it to supplement my full income. I just want it to be self-sustaining.

Jake


----------



## Designer

D-B-J said:


> Here's my thoughts:


In your list of possibilities, I didn't see "learn from other photographers".

How did other landscape photographers get started?  

Then there is the whole marketing aspect: Learn why people buy photographs.  Yes, your landscapes are good, but they don't mean anything to me, so I would not buy one.  Have you asked your customers why they like a picture well enough to part with some serious cash to own it?  

Also; your website needs updating.  Get rid of the "student work" header, especially since there is nothing in it anyway, and nobody wants to buy a student work.  (IMO)

I just finished reading this:

http://www.amazon.com/Profitable-Ph...ywords=profitable+business+on+the+digital+age

Couldn't hurt.


----------



## D-B-J

Designer said:


> D-B-J said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's my thoughts:
> 
> 
> 
> In your list of possibilities, I didn't see "learn from other photographers".
> 
> How did other landscape photographers get started?
> 
> Then there is the whole marketing aspect: Learn why people buy photographs.  Yes, your landscapes are good, but they don't mean anything to me, so I would not buy one.  Have you asked your customers why they like a picture well enough to part with some serious cash to own it?
> 
> Also; your website needs updating.  Get rid of the "student work" header, especially since there is nothing in it anyway, and nobody wants to buy a student work.  (IMO)
> 
> I just finished reading this:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Profitable-Ph...ywords=profitable+business+on+the+digital+age
> 
> Couldn't hurt.
Click to expand...


No, couldn't hurt.  I'll pick up a copy. 

The student work link was meant to be for students from my workshops to have their images on my site. Showing what kinds of things I can teach, etc.  I'll hide it for now. 

Learn from other photographers is something I didn't add but should have.  There's plenty of local photographers who I do and can chat with. 

Cheers!
Jake


----------



## gsgary

D-B-J said:


> The_Traveler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Or you could stop spending money on new gear, learn to make do with what you have and not waste time on distorting your interests just to make money.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True.  But I'm a gear junkie. I love new gear, almost as much as I love photography. Filters, lenses, everything. I love getting higher and higher quality gear, as that leads to higher quality products. OR, what if I made a few extra dollars to buy gifts for my family? Go on a vacation with my GF?  I'm good, good enough to make money. So why don't I try?
> 
> Jake
Click to expand...

With all this high end gear does your photo quality go up at the same rate ? I very much doubt it


----------



## D-B-J

gsgary said:


> D-B-J said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The_Traveler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Or you could stop spending money on new gear, learn to make do with what you have and not waste time on distorting your interests just to make money.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True.  But I'm a gear junkie. I love new gear, almost as much as I love photography. Filters, lenses, everything. I love getting higher and higher quality gear, as that leads to higher quality products. OR, what if I made a few extra dollars to buy gifts for my family? Go on a vacation with my GF?  I'm good, good enough to make money. So why don't I try?
> 
> Jake
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> With all this high end gear does your photo quality go up at the same rate ? I very much doubt it
Click to expand...


The sharpness differences between a $200 lens and a $1000 lens is significant. I own some $200 gear, and I want the $1000 gear. Yes, it would make a difference. 

Jake


----------



## gsgary

D-B-J said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> D-B-J said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The_Traveler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Or you could stop spending money on new gear, learn to make do with what you have and not waste time on distorting your interests just to make money.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True.  But I'm a gear junkie. I love new gear, almost as much as I love photography. Filters, lenses, everything. I love getting higher and higher quality gear, as that leads to higher quality products. OR, what if I made a few extra dollars to buy gifts for my family? Go on a vacation with my GF?  I'm good, good enough to make money. So why don't I try?
> 
> Jake
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> With all this high end gear does your photo quality go up at the same rate ? I very much doubt it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The sharpness differences between a $200 lens and a $1000 lens is significant. I own some $200 gear, and I want the $1000 gear. Yes, it would make a difference.
> 
> Jake
Click to expand...

Ive had most of the pro Canon lenses eg. 300f2.8L 70-200f2.8L and so on and sold them all they are not that much sharper just made stronger for pro use, some of my Voigtlander lenses are sharper, also when people look at a print they would never know if it was taken with a $10 lens or a $1000 lens


----------



## tirediron

D-B-J said:


> 480sparky said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ever consider just charging more?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't make sense to me.  If nobody buys a $135 20x30" print, why would they buy one for $200?  I make enough per print percentage wise, I just don't sell any.  I make good monies from workshops (well, good IMO).  The last one grossed 500, netted closer to 425 for 6 hours of work. Worth it to me.  Just need to explore and be more active. I need to establish myself more than I currently have.  There's few to nobody who does the kind of landscapes I do and teaches about it in this area. I need to capitalize on that.
> 
> Jake
Click to expand...

Perception of value!  It's an established fact that people who will not pay middle-of-the-road prices for an item will often pay very high prices for the same item if it's presented properly because they perceive it to be of greater value.  FWIW, $135 seems very inexpensive for a 20x30.


----------



## 480sparky

D-B-J said:


> 480sparky said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ever consider just charging more?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't make sense to me.  If nobody buys a $135 20x30" print, why would they buy one for $200?  I make enough per print percentage wise, I just don't sell any.  I make good monies from workshops (well, good IMO).  The last one grossed 500, netted closer to 425 for 6 hours of work. Worth it to me.  Just need to explore and be more active. I need to establish myself more than I currently have.
> 
> Doesn't make sense to me.  If nobody buys a $135 20x30" print, why would they buy one for $200?  I make enough per print percentage wise, I just don't sell any.  I make good monies from workshops (well, good IMO).  The last one grossed 500, netted closer to 425 for 6 hours of work. Worth it to me.  Just need to explore and be more active. I need to establish myself more than I currently have.  There's few to nobody who does the kind of landscapes I do and teaches about it in this area. I need to capitalize on that.
> 
> Jake
Click to expand...


How does Macy's compete with Walmart?   They dont.You don't understand how to market youself. If you target market is solely interested in price, you will fail. There will _always _be someone with a lower price. 

Far too many start-ups fail to understand that working does not equate to making money.  Yes, as an employee you do. But that attitude fails when you're on the other side of the desk.



But if you market youself correctly, and more importantly to the market segment that comprehends quality above price  , you're going to succeed.  As a self-employed electrician I routinely get jobs despite the fact that my price is twice the 'going rate '.

If your business model is to be Walmart Photography, you've entered the race to the bottom. A race you will surely win. Turning your craft into a commodity is never a profitable venture.


----------



## KmH

D-B-J said:


> Doesn't make sense to me.


That is a very common attitude that causes photographers to leave a boatload of money on the table.
It's not supposed to make sense to you. It's supposed to make sense to the people that can afford to pay a higher price.



D-B-J said:


> If nobody buys a $135 20x30" print, why would they buy one for $200?
> Jake


Like John points out 'a perception of value' has to be created.
There is a way to 'create a sense of value' - salesmanship.
Ken's (480sparky) remarks are right on too.


----------



## jsecordphoto

I'll chime in on a few of your ideas

I have never had much luck hanging my prints in local galleries/shops/etc. It is a big investment to have a bunch of prints made/framed and I have rarely broke even doing this. There was a while when I was actively pursuing hanging my stuff all over the state and just from moving the prints around so many times, eventually the frame will get a small scratch, or whatever. I have a big pile of older framed prints sitting in my apartment that were from previous shows. 

I haven't done any craft shows, but have a lot of friends that do them. It is definitely a huge investment. I do know a few of them who make enough over the course of the year that makes the shows worth it- but they are travelling and spending basically every weekend during the peak months (summer/fall), to the point that they barely have any time to shoot. Many times they'll have a show where they barely break even on the cost of booth space, and some weekends they'll make a few grand- but they have to do shows all year so the return on investment evens out. I'd much rather be out shooting

Posting blog/how-to/etc. articles on your site brings in more photographers, but how many photographers do you know that buy prints? 

I do know a few photographers who send out newsletters and such, but they're also doing some pretty awesome stuff. "Hey, I'm travelling to Iceland next week- look out for exclusive content I provide to my subscribers" or "I'll be speaking at the photoplus expo this weekend, come say hi!" I'll be honest and say my life is pretty boring (despite what I might portray on social media) 99% of the time. 

I just got put on the speaker list for an organization that puts on photo weekend type events all over New England- and let me tell you that the pay they offer (if any) is pretty dismal. Like covers the cost of travel+ maybe $50-75. 

The workshops are definitely a viable option to bring in more income. I will say that I think you are charging WAY too little, but if you're comfortable with making a few hundred then it's all good. 


I hear you on wanting more gear and I too have expensive taste but at the same time, some of the guys I know who are doing very well with print sales are using pretty basic gear. One guy in particular I'm thinking of is using a canon t5i and his glass is not what I'd consider high end....but- his images are incredible. He connects with his audience and does very well with print sales, paid speaking engagements, etc. 

I do alright with sales over the year, but not enough to fund all the gear I want. December is one of my better months and I usually make a few grand in print sales, but the rest of the year it's maybe $1-200 a month. Let's face it- very, very few people are making a living as a landscape photographer just from print sales. The guys I know who are making it full time are generating most of their income from doing workshops and stuff. Also, a lot of landscape photographers I know are making their living doing mostly video work, and then making some extra income from the occasional print sale. You could definitely try boosting your prices some and play into the psychology of perceived value, and pandering to the "fine art market". Lots of wealthy people out there looking for bragging rights from their expensive art purchases, but I wouldn't expect to make enough sales to cover gear. I do know people who set their prices far higher than mine, and do bring in $1-2k a month just in prints, but they also have developed a pretty big name for themselves. 

Maybe this is fairly pessimistic, but also what I consider realistic advise. Keep doing what you love and honing your craft, and there's much more potential that the success will follow. Don't invest a ton of your time and money trying to force it and generate more income


----------



## Dillard

I feel as if you have kind of answered your own question here. What are you good at, and what brings in the most revenue?

You stated that your dream isn't to be a landscape photographer. I'm in a very similar situation. I'm currently a medical student with a passion for photography. How do I pay for the hobby? We'll I've networked with local photographers, second shoot a wedding or two when the school schedule allows, while shooting major races on block breaks. You make the most of your time, and do what can bring in the most revenue with the smallest time commitment and investment on your part.

Shows seem to be a waste of time for you. You're pursuing a career as an oceanographer. You don't have 1/2 the weekends in a year to waste with no guarantee of profit. In terms of showcasing your work in local businesses, even as a photographer, I don't pay THAT much attention to the art hanging in places I frequent. And when I do, I have never thought of purchasing the print. That seems like a high investment, low return option. You stated that this is just to supplement your hobby fund, so why dump that much more money into it, especially with no guarantee of return.

Your golden opportunity is the workshops and classes. If you feel you have a skill that others want to learn from, capitalize on it. I have friend who worked his way up to the professional division in paintball. He began hosting clinics and private team practices to supplement his income, because he had a skill, as well as the credentials to back it. If you think you are good enough to teach others, and there are people willing to pay, then do it. Network with photography clubs and organizations in your region, showcase your work, and get yourself out there. It costs little to none on your end, and has the potential to bring in decent revenue.


----------



## gsgary

The quickest way to make money from your photography would be to sell all your gear because if you can't afford your hobby from your main wage your living beyond your means


----------



## D-B-J

gsgary said:


> The quickest way to make money from your photography would be to sell all your gear because if you can't afford your hobby from your main wage your living beyond your means



Oh yeah, my not buying things cause I can't afford them means I'm living beyond my means. Sell my gear? Foolish. Do you make anything other than inflammatory comments?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## vintagesnaps

He has a point... Most of what you were talking about seems to involve photography as art which doesn't exactly involve making money (I've had photos accepted into juried exhibits, packed and shipped etc. and - they came back... doesn't necessarily sell even if it's good enough to hang in a gallery).

The workshops might be the best option to make some extra money. I don't know why you feel like you need to spend thousands on equipment; it doesn't seem realistic or necessary for someone who isn't working fulltime in business as a photographer.


----------



## beckylynne

My sister in law studied photography and decided to go the art route with it.  I think  her work is beautiful, she mounts them on wood and then seals them with epoxy, or wax etc.  She spends a fortune setting up booths at art fairs etc....does her work sell?  For the most part.  Is it a income?  Hell no.  She has started shooting families and weddings on the down low to make money.


----------



## imagemaker46

Buying high end gear because you believe it will make you a better photographer can be a dangerous black hole to fall into. Going out and spending money on the gear and then hoping to make the money back doesn't always work or it takes years to break even again, only to need new gear.  I spent $10k last year on a body and lens, still paying it off and I'm doing this full time. Once you start to factor in all the operating costs it takes time.

When it becomes about making money or trying to make money the enjoyment starts to wear off as well.  I'll never be wealthy as a photographer, I figured that one out decades ago, but I wouldn't change what I do. I still enjoy it.


----------



## SquarePeg

Instead of spending money on framing for craft shows or spending time on marketing workshops or a blog, have you considered just getting a part time job and dedicating that money for your gear purchases?  No money outlay up front and a set amount coming in so you can budget for what to buy when.


----------



## beagle100

I agree with some of the other posters.    There are lots of unemployed newspaper photographers (000's), a plethora of Craigslist shooters, everyone has a camera nowadays.  Spend your money and energy on getting the college degree and real profession and let the photography "biz" remain a hobby


----------



## Dave442

Trying to make a hobby pay for itself might sound like a good idea, but I don't think most people expect their hobby to pay for itself. There is certainly no reason not to examine areas where you can make some money. I think your workshops are a good idea, but I think people would be more interested if they knew more about you. Being an Oceanographer sounds like something that people would find as a good attribute for a person giving a workshop on seascape photography.


----------



## Scatterbrained

I don't know of many landscape shooters who are making a respectable income selling images.    If you want to make money from it, you need to sell yourself to other photographers via a blog and workshops.   Revenue from "clicks" on a blog, from affiliate programs with sites like Amazon, etc, are where the money is going to come from.   Even then, unless you're quite popular it will be more work then it's worth.


----------



## dennybeall

My suggestion:
Study hard and get your degree - get a good job. If you still want to do photography then start a small business (Schedule C) and travel to photo locations (Las Vegas, The Beach, Antiqua, wherever) and tax deduct the expenses to offset the income from a real job! You can lose money for a few years and then break even for a while.


----------



## desertrattm2r12

I think the mouse is chasing the cat here. Maybe your problem is the "I wants." I  haven't seen a $1,000 lens yet that makes better photos than some vastly cheaper. Get what you want and you will just have to have a $12,000 Leica or Hassey or whatever. You want to play, you have to pay. But overpriced gear will not make you a better photographer. It's the eye and the brain.


----------



## beagle100

gsgary said:


> The quickest way to make money from your photography would be to sell all your gear



!!!
the highest "ROI" return on investment is to sell your camera gear


----------

