# I took my speed lights off camera, outdoors and heres what happened.



## JustJazzie (Oct 18, 2017)

I am so glad I took the advice from several people in my DIY lighting thread to connect my flash units and use a larger light source.

This shoot was a little challenging. I only had one background choice due to the neighbors building a REALLY ugly fence in the yard that I hadn't realized had gone up when I agreed to do the shoot there, and I needed to be far enough from the road to avoid it in the frame, and then I was constantly shifting the lighting setup with the shade as the sun moved. Add to that, a dog running in an out of every shot, as well as a 2 year old doing the same, I was so happy to have the foam core to bounce on, instead of messing with my modifiers that may or may not have hit my subjects as a group. I really only got one chance as the little one was done before we even started.

I should have paid more attention to the ambient light as I wish the background was a little darker in a few of them. However even with 2 flash heads at 1/2 power, my recycle times were not up to par with a toddler.

Anyways! C&C is always welcome, along with tips and trick for the next go around.

*updated these from the original post, with the new editing 10/19 9:20 am

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## Braineack (Oct 18, 2017)

turned out GREAT.   how exactly did you setup the lighting?


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## Designer (Oct 18, 2017)

Well, let's see, here....

They're GREAT!


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## JustJazzie (Oct 18, 2017)

Braineack said:


> turned out GREAT.   how exactly did you setup the lighting?


I was just about to edit the original post thinking I should add that in.

Thank you!

I had a huge foam board, (some kind of housing insulation from home depot) Last time I used it I just used the silver side, but figured it would be too harsh with the speed lights. So, I ended up cutting the foam to fit my favorite shower curtain diffuser, which I used background clips to attach to the foam. (Bonus! The foam now fits in the back of my explorer and I didn't have to borrow DH's truck to transport it!)

 That were about 45º or so from the family, and far enough away to keep out of my frame.

2 Speedlights at 1/2 power pointed in the middle of the board.

I clipped my 48 inch 5 in one reflector to a second light stand and put that in as close as possible for fill light.

So...I suppose I basically set it up exactly how I usually do in the studio. So much for creativity, huh? :giggle:


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## JustJazzie (Oct 18, 2017)

Designer said:


> Well, let's see, here....
> 
> They're GREAT!


Thank you!


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## goooner (Oct 18, 2017)

Wow, well done.


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## JustJazzie (Oct 18, 2017)

Thank you, @goooner!


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## tirediron (Oct 18, 2017)

I think you did a great job, given the kit and circumstances!  I might try pulling down the highlights on the Mom & children a little bit.  They seem very fair-skinned and while Dad looks spot-on, they seem a little hot.  Something in the 1/3 - 1/2 stop range I'm guessing.


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## ZombiesniperJr (Oct 18, 2017)

Great shots


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## JustJazzie (Oct 18, 2017)

tirediron said:


> I think you did a great job, given the kit and circumstances!  I might try pulling down the highlights on the Mom & children a little bit.  They seem very fair-skinned and while Dad looks spot-on, they seem a little hot.  Something in the 1/3 - 1/2 stop range I'm guessing.


Thank you!
I see your perspective about the exposure. Believe it or not, I intentionally pulled these up. It gets brought up quite often when I post portraits, so I guess "slightly-over-exposed-skin" is my "style?"



ZombiesniperJr said:


> Great shots



Thanks so much, ZombieSniperJr!


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## smoke665 (Oct 18, 2017)

JustJazzie said:


> I had a huge foam board, (some kind of housing insulation from home depot) Last time I used it I just used the silver side, but figured it would be too harsh with the speed lights. So, I ended up cutting the foam to fit my favorite shower curtain diffuser, which I used background clips to attach to the foam. (Bonus! The foam now fits in the back of my explorer and I didn't have to borrow DH's truck to transport it!)
> 
> That were about 45º or so from the family, and far enough away to keep out of my frame.
> 
> ...



Echoing the others, these are really nice. 


Some questions on your setup. As I understand, you used your shower curtain "on top of" the foam board???  Did you by chance try any with just the silver side???
How did you support the foam board modifier? 
Did you tape the two flash units together as some suggested earlier?


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## JustJazzie (Oct 18, 2017)

smoke665 said:


> Echoing the others, these are really nice.
> 
> 
> Some questions on your setup. As I understand, you used your shower curtain "on top of" the foam board???  Did you by chance try any with just the silver side???
> ...



Thank you!

You understood the setup correctly! I needed something relatively sturdy to support the curtain so I clipped it to the board.

I did not take any with the silver side. I've used silver reflectors in the past with natural lighting, and I found it to be quite harsh.

Originally, I had an extra person holding the board. Eventually, he used his ingenuity and propped it up with a couple sticks threaded through the clip handles. If fell over once due to the light breeze.

However I was thinking next time I will try to support it by clipping it to 2 more light stands.

I really hate wasting things, so I did not use tape. My speed lights already have soft velcro on them for modifiers, so I stuck two scratchy strips of velcro each other to help them stick. Then I took this little bungie thing I have...its a bungie loop, with a ball on the end and secured them with that. 

I hope that made sense! I can attach pictures if that would clarify anything.


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## Braineack (Oct 18, 2017)

I personally don't mind the skin the way it is...  only on the one shot of the husband and wife where there's such a difference between them.



JustJazzie said:


> I hope that made sense! I can attach pictures if that would clarify anything.



do it!  I love behind the scenes shots.


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## JustJazzie (Oct 18, 2017)

Also, Skin tones? Are they all too pink? I need to invest in a grey card!

@tirediron and @Braineack 

I did revisit the brightness, and you are right. It is inconsistent. I am toning down the highlights on the toddler especially. How is this looking in regards to brightness/highlights?






Heres a redo of the family shot. I burned down the little girl on the right (closest to my key light) and dodged the dad to try and even him out.


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## JustJazzie (Oct 18, 2017)

Braineack said:


> I personally don't mind the skin the way it is...  only on the one shot of the husband and wife where there's such a difference between them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Haha. Originally, I was referring to the way I had my speed lights connected. Although, I am not sure I was very clear on that. But, allright. I am not sure these qualify as "behind the scenes" because I am no longer at the scene, but heres a rough visual, just for you!


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## jcdeboever (Oct 18, 2017)

Wow these are splendid. You just helped me out a bunch for a family shoot I have to do in a few weeks, thank you so much!. I assume the reflector  for fill is directly facing the sun?


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## JustJazzie (Oct 18, 2017)

jcdeboever said:


> Wow these are splendid. You just helped me out a bunch for a family shoot I have to do in a few weeks, thank you so much!. I assume the reflector  for fill is directly facing the sun?



Thank you! 

Ohh! I should have noted in the diagram that the sun was behind them. TBH, I was thinking it would reflect the light from the flashes that bounced around. There was no intentional thought in regards to sun's positioning in correlation to the reflector.

I just updated the diagram for you. I'm delighted to hear you found it useful!


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## ronlane (Oct 18, 2017)

Nicely done Jazzie.


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## TreeofLifeStairs (Oct 18, 2017)

Braineack said:


> I personally don't mind the skin the way it is...  only on the one shot of the husband and wife where there's such a difference between them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I’d like to see the set up too?


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## JustJazzie (Oct 18, 2017)

ronlane said:


> Nicely done Jazzie.



Thank you, Ron!!



TreeofLifeStairs said:


> Braineack said:
> 
> 
> > I personally don't mind the skin the way it is...  only on the one shot of the husband and wife where there's such a difference between them.
> ...



Take a look a few comments above yours. If there is something missing you'd like me to add, just let me know what it is!


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## Braineack (Oct 18, 2017)

have you seen portrait photographer's use a tall v-card like that?  same idea and no twigs necessary 

Oh, V Cards


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## JustJazzie (Oct 18, 2017)

Braineack said:


> have you seen portrait photographer's use a tall v-card like that?  same idea and no twigs necessary
> 
> Oh, V Cards



Sue Bryce uses those all the time in her teaching! Wouldn't the wind knock them down? It sure would be easier to move though than clipping it to weighted light stands. I have a second foam board though, so maybe I will slice it down the center and tape it back together to test it out! Thanks for the idea!


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## Braineack (Oct 18, 2017)

I haven't had a light stand not fall yet so...

id rather start using those than dealing with a softbox, that's for sure.

I switched to bounce umbrellas with a diffuser for providing nearly identical light, and the portability being incredibly light and easy to carry in the same bag as your stands, and for how cheap they are, and the easy in which you can use them with a speedlight or strobe


wanna see a dumb modifier that will blow over?







turn the sound off so you don't unlearn anything from this moron.  I really dislike him.


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## JustJazzie (Oct 18, 2017)

Braineack said:


> I haven't had a light stand not fall yet so...



hmmm... I guess I don't have enough experience using stands outdoors, but nothing fell yesterday- and the foam even fell on top of the speed light stand and surprisingly it stayed standing!


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## DGMPhotography (Oct 18, 2017)

Those flashes look.... precarious


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## DGMPhotography (Oct 18, 2017)

Braineack said:


> I haven't had a light stand not fall yet so...
> 
> id rather start using those than dealing with a softbox, that's for sure.
> 
> ...



But his photos here look great!


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## JustJazzie (Oct 18, 2017)

Braineack said:


> I haven't had a light stand not fall yet so...
> 
> id rather start using those than dealing with a softbox, that's for sure.
> 
> ...



Im confused! Why doesn't he have anything weighing down the stand?!

Soft boxes are a pain. I have a huge one, but end up using my shower curtain 99% of the time because its so effortless to set up and move about.


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## TreeofLifeStairs (Oct 18, 2017)

This is the one I use. 

Photek Softlighter II, 46 inch Umbrella with Diffuser. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002HTK7A/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_xAa6zbPAJN5FN

It’s probably as big as you can get and still call it portable. I’ve never used it outside though. 


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## Derrel (Oct 18, 2017)

Nice work, Jazzie. I especially like the ever-so-slightly more dense look on the family group shot re-visit that you did.


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## tirediron (Oct 18, 2017)

JustJazzie said:


> Also, Skin tones? Are they all too pink? I need to invest in a grey card!
> 
> @tirediron and @Braineack
> 
> ...


Nailed it!


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## JustJazzie (Oct 18, 2017)

I am actually revisiting the editing on many of these. I realized that I edited these the same way I would have a natural light shot. There is quite a bit more vibrancy that can be featured in the background that I have lost, and I think I like it that way!

Edit 1





Edit 2







DGMPhotography said:


> Those flashes look.... precarious


Actually, they were sturdier than they look. The did unfold once, but never showed any signs of separating.



Derrel said:


> Nice work, Jazzie. I especially like the ever-so-slightly more dense look on the family group shot re-visit that you did.


Thank you, Derrel!



tirediron said:


> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> > Also, Skin tones? Are they all too pink? I need to invest in a grey card!
> ...



Thank you!!


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## Derrel (Oct 18, 2017)

One thing I've found is that it photos shot in this manner can be processed in multiple ways, and any number of those ways can be pleasing. Sometimes I will do an entire shoot, and think it looks just fine, then will give it a few days' worth of rest and come back and re-visit it and think, "Nope! What the heck was I thinking!" And then I will proceed to do a minor- to major-level revision of the set!

I am not suggesting that you've done anything wrong with these shots, just that there's a range of acceptable ways to process this type of bright, light, airy-look photography; one person might like 'em more dense, another might like 'em more bright, and so on. There is no, one, single best way to handle this kind of lighting; you're in charge of how you want your photos to look.


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## JustJazzie (Oct 19, 2017)

Derrel said:


> One thing I've found is that it photos shot in this manner can be processed in multiple ways, and any number of those ways can be pleasing. Sometimes I will do an entire shoot, and think it looks just fine, then will give it a few days' worth of rest and come back and re-visit it and think, "Nope! What the heck was I thinking!" And then I will proceed to do a minor- to major-level revision of the set!
> 
> I am not suggesting that you've done anything wrong with these shots, just that there's a range of acceptable ways to process this type of bright, light, airy-look photography; one person might like 'em more dense, another might like 'em more bright, and so on. There is no, one, single best way to handle this kind of lighting; you're in charge of how you want your photos to look.



Thanks for reminding me about this! I think sometimes I stare at things for so long trying to get it right, that I forget "right" is completely subjective! 

Thank goodness for light room's snapshot feature. 

I need to get in a better habit of letting the files sit for a week or so before I touch them, but I always edit hastily because I am eternally impatient. :Giggle:


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## TreeofLifeStairs (Oct 19, 2017)

Having never shot outdoors with a flash, what wb setting do you use? Is the color temperature of the flash much different from sunlight?


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## JustJazzie (Oct 19, 2017)

TreeofLifeStairs said:


> Having never shot outdoors with a flash, what wb setting do you use? Is the color temperature of the flash much different from sunlight?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ThePhotoForum.com mobile app



hmmm... Apparently I had my white balance set to cloudy. *shrug* I just left it there from my test shots so Im not sure why it worked.

Maybe because the refactor bounced the flash light so it evened the color temperature across the subject but rendering the background color "wrong"?


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## Braineack (Oct 19, 2017)

if you shot raw it didn't matter, otherwise the image would look orange, cloudy iirc is like 7700K.   Flashes are ~5500K.


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## JustJazzie (Oct 19, 2017)

Braineack said:


> if you shot raw it didn't matter, otherwise the image would look orange, cloudy iirc is like 7700K.   Flashes are ~5500K.


It doesn't matter if you are going to adjust it in raw, right? I didn't really adjust it in these. maybe a + or - 5 is all.


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## Braineack (Oct 19, 2017)

correct.


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## JustJazzie (Oct 19, 2017)

Braineack said:


> correct.


So, since I didn't correct it, shouldn't the WB have been completely off? Or did the white reflector change the color temp coming from the flash?


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## Braineack (Oct 19, 2017)

people make too much fuss over WB.   your **** looks good.


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## TreeofLifeStairs (Oct 19, 2017)

I agree it does look good. 

I’ll usually set it in camera to whatever the scene is but then will still hit auto in lr to see if it looks any better. 


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## Braineack (Oct 19, 2017)

I don't have much luck with auto buttons in LR, but I do find it nails the tint pretty well. lol.

I think whatever the camera picks, seems to always be pretty close, but I always add ~1000-1500K warmth to my shots from there.


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## vintagesnaps (Oct 19, 2017)

Next time it might help to take along a mirror and brush/comb or have the subjects bring along theirs. I think especially with fine or long hair as the people move around the hair is moving and it can start looking more messy. 

I'd also watch the clothing. The little boy in the group shot has his shirt bunched up and his pants look like he'd gotten a bit dusty/dirty; it's just more noticeable with the plaid lines and the black pants. Not that a little boy has to be perfectly clean... just that and him standing awkwardly in the group shot like he's trying to hang on/balance made things more noticeable. And he needed a quick comb/arrange too for the close up in the bright sunlight with fine blond wispy hair.

It might have been nice for the photo of the girl with the braid to have her arms and hands in the photo to be able to see them, or make it more of an upper body shot with less arm in the frame. And it would be necessary to take the pattern of the polka dots into consideration framing the shot. With the photo of the parents they seem a bit low in the frame; the bottom edge is just below the end of her hair and a little space below that might have been nice. 

It might be worth getting in more practice setting up and using the equipment and getting test shots framing in various ways til it becomes second nature. Not necessarily doing portraits, just taking pictures of whatever subject. That way at a session you won't have to think so much about the equipment because it will get to be more automatic, and then more attention could be given to posing subjects and framing the shots.


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## JustJazzie (Oct 19, 2017)

vintagesnaps said:


> Next time it might help to take along a mirror and brush/comb or have the subjects bring along theirs. I think especially with fine or long hair as the people move around the hair is moving and it can start looking more messy.
> 
> I'd also watch the clothing. The little boy in the group shot has his shirt bunched up and his pants look like he'd gotten a bit dusty/dirty; it's just more noticeable with the plaid lines and the black pants. Not that a little boy has to be perfectly clean... just that and him standing awkwardly in the group shot like he's trying to hang on/balance made things more noticeable. And he needed a quick comb/arrange too for the close up in the bright sunlight with fine blond wispy hair.
> 
> ...



I completely agree with quite a bit of what you have to say, however much of it was not reasonably feasible under the circumstances.

The parents were allowing him to climb and play, and run in and out of shots. This is exactly what I captured- when HE chose to sit down and was interested in the posing area, I grabbed a shot. Had I gone in to dust him off, the shot would have been missed completely. He would literally sit for 1 second and then start running away.

As for the family shot, you are right! He is trying to climb down.
If you have any good tips on how to keep a little boy clean who's climbing around the back yard, and how to get him to stand happily on the posing stool against his will, I am happy to hear it! (Also, if you do- then you should totally write a book on it!)
I did burn down his pants a bit in some of the final images to help hide the dirt a little better.

As for the hair- YUP! The little girls hair is definitely the biggest flaw in the photos. A lot of it has to do with the length. I was unable to tuck it in and get it to stay anywhere.
I combed the hair back many, many times, but unfortunately with a dog and the toddler running in and out of 9 out of 10 frames by the time I got a shot with good expression, and without extras- the hair was a mess again. I absolutely could have kept at it until it was perfect- but children bore easily and I would not have attained the expression I was looking for. At that point I was already loosing her so, I compromised.

The framing on the shot of the parents is due to the toddler hanging out, literally directly under the field of view, making framing options limited.


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## TreeofLifeStairs (Oct 20, 2017)

Kids are the worst; especially 5 and below. I 100% understand your difficulty; the whole family poses top the list. I take all our family pics because I’d be embarrassed for someone else to do it. 


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## JustJazzie (Oct 21, 2017)

TreeofLifeStairs said:


> Kids are the worst; especially 5 and below. I 100% understand your difficulty; the whole family poses top the list. I take all our family pics because I’d be embarrassed for someone else to do it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using ThePhotoForum.com mobile app



Yes! Kids are HARD! I don't think I could ever shoot family portraits with little kids professionally. Having kids myself- Im in the camp "lets get ONE good photo and the the poor kids go play" I am sure this isn't a profitable business model. :Giggle:  One photo is all you ever hang on the wall anyways. So with my own kiddos, we get one-to-three shots in and maybe 1 or 2 good family options to choose from and I call it a wrap. 

Having the toddler and a dog running wild through the frame wasn't something I was really prepared for, and I really should have been more organized and in control of the shoot. Ive never been very assertive, which I think is my downfall here. I should have at the least asked for the dog to be put in the house, and maybe asked them to take the little one inside while I shot the individuals. Then I could have focused more on the finer details-Like hair. I don't preform well in chaotic situations, which is why I stopped at 2 kids! :giggle: 

I am well aware that all of what I have said in the above two posts is nothing but excuses. I don't think about the excuses in a way that I am "excusing" myself from the faults of the photos, but merely identifying exactly why the flaws are there in the first place, so that I can (hopefully) adjust my shooting in the future when presented with the same circumstances. Shoot and learn, after all.


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## adamhiram (Oct 26, 2017)

Beautiful shots, and the lighting worked out really well, providing nice even fill while still looking natural.  I peaked at the metadata on your Flickr account, and it looks like these were shot at 150mm - I'm curious how far back you needed to stand from the subjects, particularly for the group shots, and how much open space was behind them to get that nice blurred background?  I've been experimenting with similar shots in my yard, and apparently 80' from camera to background doesn't seem like quite enough room!


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## JustJazzie (Oct 26, 2017)

adamhiram said:


> Beautiful shots, and the lighting worked out really well, providing nice even fill while still looking natural.  I peaked at the metadata on your Flickr account, and it looks like these were shot at 150mm - I'm curious how far back you needed to stand from the subjects, particularly for the group shots, and how much open space was behind them to get that nice blurred background?  I've been experimenting with similar shots in my yard, and apparently 80' from camera to background doesn't seem like quite enough room!


Thank you!

150mm is SUPER long for portraits. Ive never measured, but I will guess that I am 10-15 feet back? Maybe further. This family lives on 2ish acres or so.....so I am guessing there is around an acre or so behind them. I had to shoot slightly above to avoid the road in the background- which you can see entered the frame when I shot the family shot straight on.

Edit to add: I only needed that much space behind the family in the group shots. To do 1 or 2 subjects, I would guess half an acre or less?

I am lucky to live in the mountains and most places around have plenty of space in the background.

I'm looking forward to getting an 85mm 1.4 so that I can maybe be a little closer to my subjects and still get some nice lens compression. I see some beautiful shots with it, and has a similar look to this 150 (IMO) And a lighter/shorter lens sure would make things a little easier on me.

Hope this helps!


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## Raj_55555 (Oct 26, 2017)

Wow.. I learned something new today, got to try this setup now. Amazing results!!

A noob question - if you're shooting with two flashes at 1/2 - wouldn't it be identical to shooting one flash at full power?


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## adamhiram (Oct 26, 2017)

JustJazzie said:


> Hope this helps!


It does, thanks!  I'm using an 85mm f/1.8 on a crop sensor body, which puts me close to the distances you're using for your shots.  My dilemma is I that don't have a lot of space to work with, and my go-to backdrop of beautiful mature trees in the distance were all cut down in the past year, leaving me with a perfect view of other houses and colorful patio furniture.  I liked the composition at 50mm before I had to shoot around those distractions, and the narrower field of view at 200mm allows me to crop out any distractions, except for the distances needed.  Looks like I'll be scouting out a few local parks for more space!


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## JustJazzie (Oct 26, 2017)

Raj_55555 said:


> Wow.. I learned something new today, got to try this setup now. Amazing results!!
> 
> A noob question - if you're shooting with two flashes at 1/2 - wouldn't it be identical to shooting one flash at full power?



Yes, but you get twice as fast recycling time on the flashes, which is essential for shooting kiddos!


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## Braineack (Oct 26, 2017)

What if she needed both at 1/1...


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## JustJazzie (Oct 26, 2017)

adamhiram said:


> JustJazzie said:
> 
> 
> > Hope this helps!
> ...


I am terribly saddened to hear that your go to background has been defiled. That is so not cool. Good luck with your location scouting! Ill admit, the landscape around here has made me pretty lazy. Im sure there are backgrounds 10 times better, but I miss out because the backyard is so dang convenient!

Cheers to discovering new and amazing places!


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