# What Are The Steps To Take From Hobbiest To Professional?



## ChrisFACE (Nov 11, 2011)

I have been reading the forums, many blog post, articles etc on starting a freelance photography business. The one thing that I cant seem to wrap my head around is the steps needed to be taken, to go from amature with limited knowledge and experience to professional making a living. 

I have a croped sensored camera (Canon 550D/t2i) the 17-55mm kit lens and a f/1.4 IS USM 55mm lens and thats about it. I hope to eventually be doing fashion photography for designer look books, catalogues and editorials as well as commercial shoots. Aside from using a Cost of Business Calculator to determine cost, I have no idea where to start, how to find models/stylist/make-up artist to start a portfolio, I have no idea which lenses are best, & I have no idea what to do once I have a portfolio. (How to market myself to start getting work)

If anyone *(Working professional photographers)* have any advice please share.


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## 2WheelPhoto (Nov 11, 2011)

One thing you sure got right on your blog is:



> Water marks are not cool. In fact a lot of them seem to really despise it. They feel it distracts from the photo & gives an over all sense of mistrust and it seems to makes them all feel &#8220;a way&#8221; on the inside.



I'm attending the photography program at my local University, one of the required courses is " Business Essentials for Photographers". Perhaps you can attend such in your community, all the classes have been a blast for me thus far.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Nov 11, 2011)

There are no shortcuts. Years of practice, refining your craft, and using the tools that fits YOUR style.
After time spent learning various tools, YOU will know which works best for what, for YOU.


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## orljustin (Nov 11, 2011)

At least you have a camera.  That's better than half the people that come on here asking for business advice.

"I hope to eventually be doing fashion photography for designer look  books, catalogues and editorials as well as commercial shoots."

Why?


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## KmH (Nov 11, 2011)

ChrisFACE said:


> The one thing that I cant seem to wrap my head around is the steps needed to be taken, to go from amature with limited knowledge and experience to professional making a living.


 The difference between a pro and a amateur is expertise. A pro knows how a camera and lens work. A pro is very familiar with the technical aspects of doing photography. For instance - A pro knows how auto focus works and what auto focus' limitations are. A pro knows why the CMYK color model is used for off-set printing of catalogs and other print media, while the RGB color model is used online.

In short getting from amateur to professional requires a lot of study and hard work.   



ChrisFACE said:


> I hope to eventually be doing fashion photography for designer look books, catalogues and editorials as well as commercial shoots.


 Then you'll need to know a lot about lighting (both studio and location), lighting gear/grip, and posing.

To have a viable ongoing business you'll also need to be well versed in marketing/promotion/salesmanship/negotiating and other business skills.

You will need to be able to communicate professionally with advertising agencies and their creative directors, book editors, and/or corporate copywriters and art directors. The copywriter/art director is usually a team that works together to devise an overall concept (also known as the "creative" or "big idea") for the commercial, mailer, brochure, or other types of advertisement. The copywriter is responsible for the textual content, the art director for the visual aspects. You'll often be constrained to the vision the client has for a project rather than being allowed to persue your own vision.

On the legal front you'll need to be familiar with model/property release issues as well as copyright law basics and use licensing.

Of course you also have to be well versed in doing photography, in so far as being able to consistantly produce properly exposed and usably composed photographs. The key to that consistancy is having a good understanding of how the tools used for making photograhs work, along with a good understanding of the technical apects of making high quality photographs.


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## ChrisFACE (Nov 11, 2011)

Thank you. I am actually looking for a good photography course now.


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## ChrisFACE (Nov 11, 2011)

Bitter Jeweler said:


> There are no shortcuts. Years of practice, refining your craft, and using the tools that fits YOUR style.
> After time spent learning various tools, YOU will know which works best for what, for YOU.



I am not looking for shorcuts. I just dont really know the steps. For instance, if you want to be an accountant, you do well in school, go to a good college, take accounting as your major and maybe your CPA exam, and either apply for a job, or internship or start your own business. Get some biz cards made, maybe a simple web page and start marketing your services. 

If you want to become a Doctor you go to school get good grades in into a good Medical program and do a residencey, etc etc. you get the picture. 

There seems to be these very particular steps one must take to start a career in most industries. However photography seems to be one of those industries where the education focuses mostly on machanics and theory and less on how to enter the job market. There are countless people online giving their account of how they did it, but as you read more you just find that those people supposdily did it wrong. Charging to low for their photos, not licensing their images correctly, etc. 

There has to be a step by step way of doing things effectivly and efficiently.


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## MLeeK (Nov 11, 2011)

Check out the current issue of shutterbug. Good piece in there on going professional.


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## ChrisFACE (Nov 11, 2011)

orljustin said:


> "I hope to eventually be doing fashion photography for designer look  books, catalogues and editorials as well as commercial shoots."
> 
> Why?



because thats my passion. I LOVE fashion photography and high concept commercial photography. for my own personal work I might do some photo jurnalism stuff as well, but for a living Fashion/commercial is where the heart is. 

I also have a back ground in fashion illustration and design btw.


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## ChrisFACE (Nov 11, 2011)

KmH said:


> ChrisFACE said:
> 
> 
> > The one thing that I cant seem to wrap my head around is the steps needed to be taken, to go from amature with limited knowledge and experience to professional making a living.
> ...



...so another words, some sort of extensive photography course, lots of practice & maybe a internship or assisting a professional photographer?


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## MLeeK (Nov 11, 2011)

That's one avenue. What it boils down to is: first and foremost knowledge. You have to have the knowledge to produce a technically good image in any situation. How you get the knowledge and experience that leads to that is totally up to you. It could be a formal education at a college or university. It can also be self taught or learned through workshops, forums and a hodgepodge of things. It could be by interning with a pro for a few years.
Second to skill and knowledge is business sense. You are more likely to succeed with fair to mediocre skills and good business sense than those with superb skills and no business knowledge. The business knowledge you'll need is the equivalent of several different degrees. Accounting, legal, marketing, book keeper, secretary.... its extensive. And its the same as with skill and knowledge-it doesn't matter how you get it.


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## Fujito (Nov 11, 2011)

Photography is a very cutthroat career. You not only need the artistic eye and technical knowledge to compete, but you need the equipment (which costs thousands of dollars), a keen business sense, a likeable personality, and the ability to market yourself. That&#8217;s why when I go to my local photography store there are people there who have vast knowledge about photography, but they&#8217;re still working there full time because they do not have the personality or business sense to become successful.

I imagine fashion photography to be one of the hardest businesses to enter out of all the options a photographer has. It&#8217;s a glamorous job, but because of that so many people want to do it. So, realistically you need the talent and knowhow to differentiate yourself from the crowd. You&#8217;re also going to need a studio environment for your portfolio.


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## Derrel (Nov 11, 2011)

KmH said:


> In short getting from amateur to professional requires a lot of study and hard work. >>>SNIP>>>>The key to that consistancy is having a good understanding of how the tools used for making photograhs work, along with a good understanding of the technical apects of making high quality photographs.



So, what kind of timeline are we talking about? Two, or three months or so, right? Or maybe even as long as a year in some rare cases?


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## unpopular (Nov 11, 2011)

Selling your soul to self absorbed teenagers every spring is a good start. :er:


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## Sw1tchFX (Nov 12, 2011)

It's easy, and it only takes 2 steps:

1. Quit your day job

2. Earn your living with a camera.

Being a professional has nothing to do with how well you can take pictures, it's who you know and how well you can work with your clients. Any professional who has been in the business longer than 5 minutes can tell you that.


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## c.cloudwalker (Nov 12, 2011)

Sw1tchFX said:


> It's easy, and it only takes 2 steps:
> 
> 1. Quit your day job
> 
> ...




Quite true although you can substitute the "who you know" part by "how good you are at marketing."

My step 2, however would have been: move. I'm not a fashion expert but I don't see the LA area as being very big in fashion, except for buyers of it... Years ago, photogs wanting to get into fashion would go to Milan to assist. At the very least I would try either NYC or Paris. You do need to be where fashion is.


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## orljustin (Nov 12, 2011)

ChrisFACE said:


> orljustin said:
> 
> 
> > "I hope to eventually be doing fashion photography for designer look  books, catalogues and editorials as well as commercial shoots."
> ...



Oh crap, you said the "p" word.  What do you mean, you "LOVE" it.  Do you mean you like looking at it?  You've got a beginner DSLR and kit lens - you can't have shot much.


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## MLeeK (Nov 12, 2011)

Don't let the bickering and sarcasm scare you... They're harmless. Everyone has their views and attitudes and some of these guys have been here since the day this forum went on the net, so they're great at picking at each other. They often refer to things that go right over our heads because it happened in a post that we've never seen. 
For all their bickering and seemingly rudeness, they're not so bad. It just takes some REAL getting used to. I know... I had major problems getting used to them and still have to bite my tongue on a regular basis...


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## imagemaker46 (Nov 12, 2011)

Is this your average new digital professional or your old school, I spent 25 years shooting film, gathered all the experience and skills required to be a professional, then switched to digital and continued working as a professional.

It's all about treating clients as a professional, respecting them and expecting the same in return, turning out high quality images everytime you pick up the camera and walking into difficult situations knowing that you have the skills and experience to do the job.

It doesn't always mean making a great living with a camera, it doesn't require understanding of how a camera works, or how autofocus works, or following the "rules of photography" as there are no rules.  It is learning and understanding light and being able to translate that light into an image.  Knowledge comes from many sources, books, magazines, schools and watching how  competent professionals work, ask them questions, the good ones will answer honestly, the jerks that won't offer you a few minutes aren't worth asking.  It's a tough world now, learn how the business works and always be prepared for disappointment.

Follow this and you may or may not make it, but the bottom line is, if you believe you can, then you have a chance.


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## Derrel (Nov 12, 2011)

MLeeK said:


> Don't let the bickering and sarcasm scare you... They're harmless. Everyone has their views and attitudes and some of these guys have been here since the day this forum went on the net, so they're great at picking at each other. They often refer to things that go right over our heads because it happened in a post that we've never seen.
> For all their bickering and seemingly rudeness, they're not so bad. It just takes some REAL getting used to. I know... I had major problems getting used to them and still have to bite my tongue on a regular basis...



We love you too, Mom. You've been here less than a month, and have already established yourself as the Mom who loves to slap hands with a wooden ruler and act like a Catholic school nun. I bet you're a real laugh riot behind the wheel of the car...everybody else is "an idiot", and people who drive slower than you are "morons", and those who drive faster than you are "arseholes".

To the OP--one of the first things you need to do is to actually LEARN the model names and focal lengths of the lenses that you (ostensibly) have in your possession...


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## unpopular (Nov 12, 2011)

^^ you're really into this seniority thing.


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## Derrel (Nov 13, 2011)

unpopular said:


> ^^ you're really into this seniority thing.



No, not really...I'm NOT "into" people who show up, and try and tell hundreds and hundreds of people how "they ought to act"...it's a lot like the Moral Majority movement, which was NEITHER moral, nor a majority...people who come into an organization of ANY kind, and start telling others how inferior they are, and how disgusting they are, has absolutely nothing to do with "seniority".  It's more about a little thing called moralizing, and also, in this case, there is also a significant element of, "Do as I SAY, and not as I DO," based upon some pretty smug, snippy, unkind, and downright rude reactions to others...

Seniority isn't the issue as much as the constant lecturing, and the snide, back-stabbing comments directed at "others".


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## cgipson1 (Nov 13, 2011)

Agree with Derrel! Like the chick that was here a week or two ago, and decided to leave since we refused to conform to HER standards! That was amusing!


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## unpopular (Nov 13, 2011)

It's just a forum. Who cares if people don't like how you say things. Just keep going about how you say them, or not, whatever.

You're acting like a 13 year old kid. If you feel like you need a spanking, maybe the problem is that you do. Otherwise, move on and stop whining a peripubescent middleschooler who hasn't figured out that no matter what anyone says you don't have to listen. You people should have grown out of the "you're not the boss of me" phase.


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## cgipson1 (Nov 13, 2011)

unpopular said:


> It's just a forum. Who cares if people don't like how you say things. Just keep going about how you say them, or not, whatever.
> .



If that is aimed at me (my post) then you are totally correct... "who cares if people don't like how you say things!" (this includes you, obviously!) I think your comments definitely fall under this!

It does amuse me that you seem to think stating the obvious is meaningful, or necessary!  

If it is aimed at Derrel, I am sure he will reply.. if he feels that is needed! lol!


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## SCraig (Nov 13, 2011)

I'm not a pro, never had any urge to be.  I would like to offer one word of advice though:

If you are going to charge for your photographs then the result has to be worth the cost.  It doesn't matter whether you have the knowledge, where you obtain it, or just a "Feel" for what works.  It doesn't matter whether you have the best equipment money or the cheapest.  The thing that matters is that you can take photographs commensurate with the fees that you plan to charge.

This is not optional, it is a requirement.  I have seen professional photographers bemoaning the fact that "Amateurs giving away photographs are taking jobs away from me!"  Fact of life: If you charge a fee for photographs are no better than an amateur's free photographs then you are probably in the wrong line of work or doing something wrong.  If you do high-quality to exceptional work that is worth the fees you charge you will probably not have a problem.  If you just want to stick the moniker "Professional Photographer" in your name without the ability to back it up then you probably will be hungry a lot.  That choice is entirely up to you.

When I was a kid there were two professional photography studios in the town I grew up in.  I worked for one of them.  Today there are about 3 dozen.  The city has not grown that much but the number of people claiming to be "Professional Photographers" has because anyone can throw up a web site and claim to be a pro these days.


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## ManhattanShutterBug (Nov 13, 2011)

You have been given some good advice here I would suggest you take. 

Also check out this book "Going Pro: How to Make the Leap from Aspiring to Professional Photographer" .


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## ChrisFACE (Jan 14, 2012)

c.cloudwalker said:


> Sw1tchFX said:
> 
> 
> > My step 2, however would have been: move. I'm not a fashion expert but I don't see the LA area as being very big in fashion, except for buyers of it... Years ago, photogs wanting to get into fashion would go to Milan to assist. At the very least I would try either NYC or Paris. You do need to be where fashion is.
> ...


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## ChrisFACE (Jan 14, 2012)

orljustin said:


> ChrisFACE said:
> 
> 
> > orljustin said:
> ...



I havent shot anything as a matter of fact. I simply love fashion. And I dont mean like a young girl who loves to shop. I have been doing fashion illustration since the age of 16 (Im 32 now) I went to F.I.T. for fashion design, and simply love how creative you can be in the field as opposed to simply having a good eye and capturing someone elses beauty (landscape, architeture, travel, food, etc) in fashion photography you can create the image as well as shoot it.


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## ChrisFACE (Jan 14, 2012)

ManhattanShutterBug said:


> You have been given some good advice here I would suggest you take.
> 
> Also check out this book "Going Pro: How to Make the Leap from Aspiring to Professional Photographer" .



Thank you. I will look into it.


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