# Are football shoulders okay..



## tirediron

When it's a football player?  I hope so! 

Again in the spirit of working on preps for next school year's advertising, the son of a friend came by to pose for some in-studio 'hero' shots (we'll be doing a session on the field later).  As some of you know, I like my modifiers... I like BIG modifiers; 60" brolly boxes, 48x60 SBs, etc...  Something I really don't do much work in is bare tube stuff, but I decided to do some experimenting and was pleasantly surprised.  Both of these are bare-tube with barn doors only.  The lighting definitely needs some refinement, but for just a quick, "Hey, I wonder if..." I was very pleased.  

As always, critique, comments and suggestions, especially with regard to football by anyone more knowledgable than I (which is all of you!) greatly appreciated!

1.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





2.


----------



## table1349

Shoulder pads are completely acceptable.   When is comes to Hero shots, here in the states one of the most common football hero shots tend to be position specific.


----------



## Rick50

I think I would be pleased too. The addition of the second light seems to have really helped. I did a single bare bulb once pointed up at a white ceiling and it also turned out very soft. I'm guessing the black background and the 2nd light makes this work as well as it does. Good job. And I would point out that you now know more about football photo's than me!


----------



## jcdeboever

All I know is they look pretty awesome. I have no suggestions other than can I please download your know-how into my brain?


----------



## Braineack

I'd love to have seen #2 with two hairlights on either side of the subject, and bleeding through the frame.


----------



## tirediron

gryphonslair99 said:


> Shoulder pads are completely acceptable.   When is comes to Hero shots, here in the states one of the most common football hero shots tend to be position specific.


Good point, and that's one of things that Jason told me about when we were discussing this.  It seems that in the past most of the shots have been the same pose (more or less) for everyone, and they'd like more individuality.



Rick50 said:


> I think I would be pleased too. The addition of the second light seems to have really helped. I did a single bare bulb once pointed up at a white ceiling and it also turned out very soft. I'm guessing the black background and the 2nd light makes this work as well as it does. Good job. And I would point out that you now know more about football photo's than me!


Thanks Rick - this was basically a variation on the two strip light lighting pattern that's commonly used for sports (Mainly because I don't have two strip lights ATM).  I need to tweak the lights a hair, but overall, I'm pretty sure I like the direction it's going.


----------



## Designer

Looks like a 50/50 split, so I'm not overly taken by the lighting.  Bare tube fine, probably needs a reflector for the center of chest area in #1.


----------



## tirediron

jcdeboever said:


> All I know is they look pretty awesome. I have no suggestions other than can I please download your know-how into my brain?


Thanks JC; they're not quite 'there' yet, but getting close.



Braineack said:


> I'd love to have seen #2 with two hairlights on either side of the subject, and bleeding through the frame.


Not quite sure I get what you mean, can you elaborate further?


Designer said:


> Looks like a 50/50 split, so I'm not overly taken by the lighting.  Bare tube fine, probably needs a reflector for the center of chest area in #1.


Pretty much exactly a 50/50; the only difference is the slight variation of the barn doors.  Do you think an un-even ratio would improve things?  I tried adding some fill but it lost the look that I had in mind with the reduced contrast.


----------



## table1349

tirediron said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Shoulder pads are completely acceptable.   When is comes to Hero shots, here in the states one of the most common football hero shots tend to be position specific.
> 
> 
> 
> Good point, and that's one of things that Jason told me about when we were discussing this.  It seems that in the past most of the shots have been the same pose (more or less) for everyone, and they'd like more individuality.
Click to expand...


General pose thoughts. 

Quarterback = drop back or pass pose.
Running backs = Everyone has to do the Heisman pose.  Do variations of it. 
Receivers = Jumping arms extended ball in hands. 
Offensive linemen = 3 point stance. Center with ball in stance. 
Defensive lineman = 2 or 3 point stance 
Defensive backs and linebackers = basic mean look.
Punter = arms out holding ball in punt pose
Kicker = Ball teed up standing at ball leg back in kicking pose. 

Helmets on or off depending on you lighting.  Always want a good face shot.  And always get a shot or two like you posted.  They don't all have to be action poses.  Team pose.  Full gear helmet in hand or on ground in front of front row.


----------



## Designer

tirediron said:


> Do you think an un-even ratio would improve things?


I'm sure it's not easy while in the moment, but yes, uneven lighting would probably help.  What would it look like with a bare bulb key light and a bit of fill from another light?


----------



## tirediron

gryphonslair99 said:


> General pose thoughts.
> 
> Quarterback = drop back or pass pose.
> Running backs = Everyone has to do the Heisman pose.  Do variations of it.
> Receivers = Jumping arms extended ball in hands.
> Offensive linemen = 3 point stance. Center with ball in stance.
> Defensive lineman = 2 or 3 point stance
> Defensive backs and linebackers = basic mean look.
> Punter = arms out holding ball in punt pose
> Kicker = Ball teed up standing at ball leg back in kicking pose.
> 
> Helmets on or off depending on you lighting.  Always want a good face shot.  And always get a shot or two like you posted.  They don't all have to be action poses.  Team pose.  Full gear helmet in hand or on ground in front of front row.


Awesome, thanks!  Ummm...  d'ya have a link to Google Translate's English-Feetsball/Feetsball-English module?


----------



## table1349

tirediron said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> 
> General pose thoughts.
> 
> Quarterback = drop back or pass pose.
> Running backs = Everyone has to do the Heisman pose.  Do variations of it.
> Receivers = Jumping arms extended ball in hands.
> Offensive linemen = 3 point stance. Center with ball in stance.
> Defensive lineman = 2 or 3 point stance
> Defensive backs and linebackers = basic mean look.
> Punter = arms out holding ball in punt pose
> Kicker = Ball teed up standing at ball leg back in kicking pose.
> 
> Helmets on or off depending on you lighting.  Always want a good face shot.  And always get a shot or two like you posted.  They don't all have to be action poses.  Team pose.  Full gear helmet in hand or on ground in front of front row.
> 
> 
> 
> Awesome, thanks!  Ummm...  d'ya have a link to Google Translate's English-Feetsball/Feetsball-English module?
Click to expand...

Sorry, this is the closest I have.  Football For Dummies (USA Edition) Cheat Sheet - For Dummies


----------



## tirediron

Designer said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think an un-even ratio would improve things?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure it's not easy while in the moment, but yes, uneven lighting would probably help.  What would it look like with a bare bulb key light and a bit of fill from another light?
Click to expand...

Dunno... but I'm going to put it on the list of 'Got to try'.  Thanks!


----------



## table1349

When you do the outdoor shots don't forget to take the lights with you.


----------



## PropilotBW

I like the 1st one.   
Just an idea, Have you considered experimenting with lowering the camera tripod , shooting more upward so the player looks larger?
Nicely done!


----------



## tirediron

gryphonslair99 said:


> When you do the outdoor shots don't forget to take the lights with you.


Dude... why not just tell me not to leave my camera at home???? 



PropilotBW said:


> I like the 1st one.
> Just an idea, Have you considered experimenting with lowering the camera tripod , shooting more upward so the player looks larger?
> Nicely done!


Thanks!  I have tried that, I wasn't overly pleased with the results because in the ones that I did, he was holding his helmet and it looked too large and prominent, but I plan to do some more.


----------



## table1349

tirediron said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> 
> When you do the outdoor shots don't forget to take the lights with you.
> 
> 
> 
> Dude... why not just tell me not to leave my camera at home????
Click to expand...


You would be surprised how many times I have walked by some high school field on photo day only to see the same old, hold the ball in one arm, down on one knee, helmet off on the ground pose.  No lights other than the sun in sight.   Whats worse they take the team photo with no fill light.   Sometimes it't the coaches fault not wanting to waste too much time from practice, sometimes it's the photographers fault.  Just trying to make sure you have all the bases covered.  



Psssst.  Don't forget your camera.


----------



## tirediron

gryphonslair99 said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> 
> When you do the outdoor shots don't forget to take the lights with you.
> 
> 
> 
> Dude... why not just tell me not to leave my camera at home????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You would be surprised how many times I have walked by some high school field on photo day only to see the same old, hold the ball in one arm, down on one knee, helmet off on the ground pose.  No lights other than the sun in sight.   Whats worse they take the team photo with no fill light.   Sometimes it't the coaches fault not wanting to waste too much time from practice, sometimes it's the photographers fault.  Just trying to make sure you have all the bases covered.
> 
> 
> 
> Psssst.  Don't forget your camera.
Click to expand...

  I hear you... drove past a wedding session the other day where the photographer had the couple against a sign  with very strong, bright overcast backlighting and no fill of any sort other than her VAL with a smallish reflector....  I honestly thought about stopping and saying, "Here are three speedlights... it's all I've got with me.  For gawd's sakes use 'em!!"


----------



## Big Mike

Looks good.

One thing to try, to see if you like it, would be to use that same lighting scheme, the two side/kicker lights, but let the shadows get darker for a deeper ratio.  That would mean that the front of his face could get pretty dark, but if you position the side lights just right, you can get away with it, and it looks pretty 'bad ass'.

Then, to step it up another notch, get him wet so it looks like he's sweaty.  Have him rub on a bit a baby oil (or similar) then spray some water and it should bead up.  I guess you could mix in some dirt on the face and jersey to really take it to the limit.


----------



## tirediron

Big Mike said:


> Looks good.
> 
> One thing to try, to see if you like it, would be to use that same lighting scheme, the two side/kicker lights, but let the shadows get darker for a deeper ratio.  That would mean that the front of his face could get pretty dark, but if you position the side lights just right, you can get away with it, and it looks pretty 'bad ass'.
> 
> Then, to step it up another notch, get him wet so it looks like he's sweaty.  Have him rub on a bit a baby oil (or similar) then spray some water and it should bead up.  I guess you could mix in some dirt on the face and jersey to really take it to the limit.


Thanks Mike, and great ideas; I'll definitely add that into my list!


----------



## Big Mike

I attended a seminar, several years ago, from a Canadian photographer who did a fair amount of HS seniors and he uses that style quite a bit.  It was his photo I was picturing.

I couldn't remember his name, but then I remembered that he was a constant on ManTracker and I was able to track him down.  He is Rob Provencher.  

THIS is the image I was thinking about.


----------



## tirediron

Thanks Mike!  That's a great link and a very useful image.  Much appreciated.


----------

