# models



## silver163 (Feb 16, 2009)

has anyone who done model photography in the past had issues with models? such as them being really nasty or wanting lots of money per photo even though they had 0 experience?


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## silver163 (Feb 16, 2009)

no body?


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## JerryPH (Feb 16, 2009)

Well, you can show a little patience and wait more than 3 hours for an answer... this *is* an international forum.  

I've never had problems with any model, ever.  Before a model gets to see me lift the camera, she sits on my stool and we talk things over.  Setting expectations *is* kinda important, right?  I do this even if it is at an event where no money exchanges hands.  The least you can do is get to know the person in front of you and give them the chance to get to know you a little too.

There are all kinds of people on this earth, and if you are going to be in photography to some extent or another, you will eventually meet the gamut of personalities.

What is *your* level of experience?


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## Village Idiot (Feb 17, 2009)

Models, of the amateur variety, *can be* very unreliable and petty. 

Just remember, you don't have to press the shutter button if you don't want to.

Look for TFCD shoots if you don't want to pay.

Where Professional Models Meet Model Photographers - ModelMayhem


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## silver163 (Feb 17, 2009)

JerryPH said:


> Well, you can show a little patience and wait more than 3 hours for an answer... this *is* an international forum.
> 
> I've never had problems with any model, ever.  Before a model gets to see me lift the camera, she sits on my stool and we talk things over.  Setting expectations *is* kinda important, right?  I do this even if it is at an event where no money exchanges hands.  The least you can do is get to know the person in front of you and give them the chance to get to know you a little too.
> 
> ...


I didn't have that chance, I used ModelMayhem and prior to even meeting them I would ask if they were interested in boosting both portfolios but they would just say "i want money" and these were ones without any experience.



Village Idiot said:


> Models, of the amateur variety, *can be* very unreliable and petty.
> 
> Just remember, you don't have to press the shutter button if you don't want to.
> 
> ...



I tried but they just change their minds and want money


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## JerryPH (Feb 17, 2009)

Village Idiot said:


> Models, of the amateur variety, *can be* very unreliable and petty.



As can photographers too, but the point is all in how and where you find these people.  I swear, I have *NO* issues finding models thanks to a couple of local photography forums and mostly from the Montreal Strobist group.  

Example, this Saturday, I am again going to an event where there will be about 20-25 photographers, 30+ models and since we opened the door to the idea, about 10-15 make-up artists.

The goal?  Have fun and TFP/TFS.  Most are amateurs, some are professionals but ALL are there for the pleasure of the exchange and the experience.

I read a lot about what happens at MM and often you seem to have more bad results than good.  Too many "no shows" for my taste and a little too much arrogance from both sides.

Maybe I am fortunate in my area, but finding someone to stand in front of my camera is a complete non-issue.  I think it all comes down to a little organizing and having a LOT of fun.


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## Big Mike (Feb 17, 2009)

The important issue is making sure to have an agreement in place...before you shoot anything.

So if you are having issues before you even meet...then just consider part of the weeding out process.  

By the way, don't the models specify on their profile if they are willing to do 'Time For...' shoots?


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## silver163 (Feb 17, 2009)

yeah they do specify but they change their minds that is the most frustrating part for me.


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## Big Mike (Feb 17, 2009)

What is your portfolio on the site like?  

I can imagine that if a photographer asks them to do a TF shoot, they will look at the portfolio and see if you are any good.  They don't want to waste their time any more than you do...plus, they also have to worry about creeps who might just want to ogle them.  

So maybe the issue is that you need to improve  your portfolio before you can attract good models.  That might put you in a catch 22 situation where you can't improve your portfolio without models but you can't get models without a good portfolio.


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## silver163 (Feb 17, 2009)

Big Mike said:


> What is your portfolio on the site like?
> 
> I can imagine that if a photographer asks them to do a TF shoot, they will look at the portfolio and see if you are any good.  They don't want to waste their time any more than you do...plus, they also have to worry about creeps who might just want to ogle them.
> 
> So maybe the issue is that you need to improve  your portfolio before you can attract good models.  That might put you in a catch 22 situation where you can't improve your portfolio without models but you can't get models without a good portfolio.


my portfolio: http://www.portfolio.orangestonephotography.com/

but as i said i was trying to find models with 0 experience but problem is that even they want money and not just a bit usually its from $200-$500 I had one who wanted $2,000 per photo but that's the most extreme they gotten.


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## Big Mike (Feb 17, 2009)

Link didn't work


> Error 404 - Not found


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## silver163 (Feb 17, 2009)

yeah try coping and pasting the link. i am not sure what is going on, have to figure out with the host later today.


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## Joves (Feb 17, 2009)

Well I got in but not to the area you specified in the url. I just delelted to you home page but, the interface would not allow me into any of your sub categories. All I saw were landscapes and cityscapes but no people shots. Also yes some people believe they are gods gift to everyone, you just have to learn to deal with them.


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## samal (Feb 17, 2009)

I believe that the proper link would be Vlad Kryvdyk - Portfolio

Looks like we are neighbors, I live in Buffalo Grove and work in Vernon Hills 
and looks like you have some russian cityscapes in your portfolio.  I am from Russia as well, so if you wanna go shot somewhere, sometime, let me know, especially if you find a good model


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## silver163 (Feb 18, 2009)

samal said:


> I believe that the proper link would be Vlad Kryvdyk - Portfolio
> 
> Looks like we are neighbors, I live in Buffalo Grove and work in Vernon Hills
> and looks like you have some russian cityscapes in your portfolio.  I am from Russia as well, so if you wanna go shot somewhere, sometime, let me know, especially if you find a good model


haha this is a one in a million shot but it is actually ukraine.


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## silver163 (Feb 18, 2009)

samal said:


> I believe that the proper link would be Vlad Kryvdyk - Portfolio
> 
> Looks like we are neighbors, I live in Buffalo Grove and work in Vernon Hills
> and looks like you have some russian cityscapes in your portfolio.  I am from Russia as well, so if you wanna go shot somewhere, sometime, let me know, especially if you find a good model


haha this is a one in a million shot but it is actually ukraine.


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## Alleh Lindquist (Feb 18, 2009)

silver163 said:


> my portfolio: Vlad Kryvdyk - Portfolio
> 
> but as i said i was trying to find models with 0 experience but problem is that even they want money and not just a bit usually its from $200-$500 I had one who wanted $2,000 per photo but that's the most extreme they gotten.


 
I wouldn&#8217;t pay a model squat for a shoot that was for either for mine or their portfolio. If I was getting paid and I was hiring a model from an agency for the job that&#8217;s one thing. 

People ask me all the time if I will shoot them for free for their portfolio and it's a joke. I don't even waste my time to respond unless it is to tell them no and if they want to pay I would be happy to help them better their portfolio that they will in turn use it to earn money.

The key is to find a balance in the level of experience you have vs. they have. You can't contact someone who is constantly booked for paid work and expect them to waste their time so you can practice. You will only be able to get someone to do it for free if it's going to be of benefit for them as in you will actually be able to provide a quality even to or better than the images they already have.

In the case of all the wannabe models that exist that think they are a gift to the industry the tools I use for my business weren&#8217;t free why should their tool (portfolio) be free.


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## JerryPH (Feb 18, 2009)

silver163 said:


> I didn't have that chance, I used ModelMayhem and prior to even meeting them I would ask if they were interested in boosting both portfolios but they would just say "i want money" and these were ones without any experience.
> 
> 
> 
> I tried but they just change their minds and want money



Thats the thing.  I am willing to bet that:

A - Your "reputation" on MM is not that of an established professional.
B - Your choice of models is not getting you what you want
C - MM basically sucks 98.99% of the time from what I see.

A - Get some experience and fill your portfolio with some good shots.  Use family if you must.
B - Learn where to go for better models
C - Did I mention that MM basically sucks?

Oh... BTW, model mayhem... sucks. 
Most of the time all one reads is "they never showed up" or "they weren't ready" or "they were late" or what ever.

"Models" like that, no one needs.  Time to look elsewhere.  

Find a local strobist group and if none exist... MAKE one yourself.  Make some contacts, network, talk to people!  Photographers that want to shoot models and portraiture almost always have aspirations of turning pro... well, guess what, being a pro photographer has VERY little to do with pressing the shutter.  Learning and knowing how to talk to people and network is a GREAT tool... so go out and practice that aspect of it... find yourself models, make-up artists, other photographers, pro and otherwise... learn to network, and grow your environment to meet your needs!


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## LuckySo-n-So (Feb 18, 2009)

JerryPH said:


> Thats the thing. I am willing to bet that:
> 
> C - MM basically sucks 98.99% of the time from what I see.
> 
> ...


 
I clicked the link just for schitzengiggles, and it took all of about 5 minutes to agree with your assessment. I think I'll stick to friends and family to start. If I'm good enough, it will go from there. Word of mouth is better than any advertisement.



> Find a local strobist group and if none exist... MAKE one yourself. Make some contacts, network, talk to people! Photographers that want to shoot models and portraiture almost always have aspirations of turning pro... well, guess what, being a pro photographer has VERY little to do with pressing the shutter. Learning and knowing how to talk to people and network is a GREAT tool... so go out and practice that aspect of it... find yourself models, make-up artists, other photographers, pro and otherwise... learn to network, and grow your environment to meet your needs!


 
Sounds like good common sense advice from you as always, Jerry. I enjoy reading your posts.


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## JerryPH (Feb 18, 2009)

LuckySo-n-So said:


> I clicked the link just for schitzengiggles, and it took all of about 5 minutes to agree with your assessment. I think I'll stick to friends and family to start.



You will never know how lost I was the first time I had a "stranger" in front of my lens that was not a family member.  I had no idea how to even ask for a position or pose... and when she asked me what to do... man, my inexperience showed.

That fades VERY fast, though and within a couple hours things were wailing and on top of that, the 2nd time we had an event, a few extra models showed up "just because that guy with the funny T-shirt is coming and we like him..."







I am *so* looking forward to this Saturday and the following entire weekend.  Our club has 2 events happening 2 weeks in a row.  After this, I have a good feeling that I will easily have a couple hundred nice photos to add to my portfolio.

Sincerely, don't give up, keep plugging away.


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## Joves (Feb 18, 2009)

That and use any friends and their girlfriends as subjects too Lucky.


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## silver163 (Feb 18, 2009)

JerryPH said:


> Thats the thing.  I am willing to bet that:
> 
> A - Your "reputation" on MM is not that of an established professional.
> B - Your choice of models is not getting you what you want
> ...



I can try to create a Strobist group but I doubt it will be successful just being realistic with my situation.

Everyone starts off with 0 experience, I have some photographing some friends but none of them are really that willing. I don't have family to rely on.

But what is frusturating for me is when models have as I have said have absolutely 0 experience when it comes to modeling reject.

I expect models who had experience reject me since why would they waste their time with me, but why are models who never modeled before acting like this?

just want to make this clear: I do look for models who have very little or no experience not models who have lots of experience but its frusturating when models who have 0 experience start demanding money and not cheaply.


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## silver163 (Feb 18, 2009)

JerryPH said:


> You will never know how lost I was the first time I had a "stranger" in front of my lens that was not a family member.  I had no idea how to even ask for a position or pose... and when she asked me what to do... man, my inexperience showed.
> 
> That fades VERY fast, though and within a couple hours things were wailing and on top of that, the 2nd time we had an event, a few extra models showed up "just because that guy with the funny T-shirt is coming and we like him..."
> 
> ...



how do you manage to take photos in a club? i tried that but flash is too hot and creates really poor quality photos and the lighting sucks.


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## craig (Feb 19, 2009)

As always your lighting and style will command the people you work with. If you have no wiling friends or family then pay a model or join a group. Contrary to popular belief Model Mayhem is a good resource if you use it wisely. That means making contacts as opposed to random "I would like to shoot with you" comments. Keep in mind that a model with 0 experience and a photographer with 0 experience equals a nightmare. Also keep in mind that real modeling portfolios are a tough game. Not to mention commercial/editorial and fashion work. Long story short your work has to be amazing. Best advice is do not get discouraged. Know that you are swimming with sharks. 

The real question is what kind of work are you looking to get in to? Spill some details and we can help further.

Love & Bass


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## silver163 (Feb 19, 2009)

craig said:


> As always your lighting and style will command the people you work with. If you have no wiling friends or family then pay a model or join a group. Contrary to popular belief Model Mayhem is a good resource if you use it wisely. That means making contacts as opposed to random "I would like to shoot with you" comments. Keep in mind that a model with 0 experience and a photographer with 0 experience equals a nightmare. Also keep in mind that real modeling portfolios are a tough game. Not to mention commercial/editorial and fashion work. Long story short your work has to be amazing. Best advice is do not get discouraged. Know that you are swimming with sharks.
> 
> The real question is what kind of work are you looking to get in to? Spill some details and we can help further.
> 
> Love & Bass



I just want to get experience that is all, i try to establish contacts but no one wants to bother with me =/


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## bigtwinky (Feb 19, 2009)

Once my play is over, I so want to get into the Montreal Strobist group.  From the pics I have seen of the events, they look totally fun.

And from what I hear, they are very welcoming to newer people too.


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## silver163 (Feb 19, 2009)

well apparently my account got closed do to "lack of experience" which is rather strange but oh well.


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## JerryPH (Feb 19, 2009)

bigtwinky said:


> Once my play is over, I so want to get into the Montreal Strobist group.  From the pics I have seen of the events, they look totally fun.
> 
> And from what I hear, they are very welcoming to newer people too.



There is no snobishness concerning experience levels, equipment or camera brands (well, I kid the Canon guys and they give it right back to me... lol)  You're missing out on some interesting things over the next 2 weekends.  

This Saturday we are going back to Studio4Fun.  *THIS* time not just with our group but 2 other local photo forums with more models, more photographers, more make-up artists.  The organizer even has a local photography store on the line to lend us as many as possibly *10* monolight strobes between 200-1200 W/s to play with!

The following event is 6 days later.  We've organized a Fri-Sat-Sun event at a place that promises some INCREDIBLE potential.  At about a 2 hour drive from Montreal, Mont Tremblant has one of the bigger ski mountains in the region.  Boasts 200 year old architecture as well as a practically completely re-renovated town and in surrounding areas, many old and/or abandoned places like 100 year old barns, a covered bridge, ice mountain climbing, forests galore and we will have access to ALL that and more, plus the main area indoors.  One or two of the evenings I will be bringing a few photo seminar DVDs that I've bought and we will watch after the day is over on a big screen as a group (strobist porn... lol).  We can discuss, get ideas from, and have fun.  Leaving Friday evening and ending Sunday afternoon, it promises to be a mini-vacation for not just the strobist lover, but landscape and nature photographers too!


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## silver163 (Feb 19, 2009)

JerryPH said:


> There is no snobishness concerning experience levels, equipment or camera brands (well, I kid the Canon guys and they give it right back to me... lol)  You're missing out on some interesting things over the next 2 weekends.
> 
> This Saturday we are going back to Studio4Fun.  *THIS* time not just with our group but 2 other local photo forums with more models, more photographers, more make-up artists.  The organizer even has a local photography store on the line to lend us as many as possibly *10* monolight strobes between 200-1200 W/s to play with!
> 
> The following event is 6 days later.  We've organized a Fri-Sat-Sun event at a place that promises some INCREDIBLE potential.  At about a 2 hour drive from Montreal, Mont Tremblant has one of the bigger ski mountains in the region.  Boasts 200 year old architecture as well as a practically completely re-renovated town and in surrounding areas, many old and/or abandoned places like 100 year old barns, a covered bridge, ice mountain climbing, forests galore and we will have access to ALL that and more, plus the main area indoors.  One or two of the evenings I will be bringing a few photo seminar DVDs that I've bought and we will watch after the day is over on a big screen as a group (strobist porn... lol).  We can discuss, get ideas from, and have fun.  Leaving Friday evening and ending Sunday afternoon, it promises to be a mini-vacation for not just the strobist lover, but landscape and nature photographers too!


why strobes not steady light?


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## JerryPH (Feb 19, 2009)

silver163 said:


> why strobes not steady light?



- They are much weaker
- The quality of light is much poorer
- WB is not consistent from blub to blub, often even when they say they are the same K.
- Not portable

Kinda hard to get the extension cord to go that 1500 feet into the woods to that field or out on that bridge to get a shot... or in that back alley at 2:00AM.


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## Big Mike (Feb 19, 2009)

> why strobes not steady light?


This should probably be asked in a new thread...well actually, it's been asked plenty of times before...on this site and all over the photo-internet.  
The short answer: strobes/flash is better.


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## silver163 (Feb 19, 2009)

JerryPH said:


> - They are much weaker
> - The quality of light is much poorer
> - WB is not consistent from blub to blub, often even when they say they are the same K.
> - Not portable
> ...


and you don't need electricity to power monolights?

everything i have which is one single lamp (with a specialized bulb) and an umbrella from alien bees which i built myself cannot make something that flashes plus its hard to know the outcome.


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## silver163 (Feb 19, 2009)

Big Mike said:


> This should probably be asked in a new thread...well actually, it's been asked plenty of times before...on this site and all over the photo-internet.
> The short answer: strobes/flash is better.


how so? you cannot see how it is going to be prior plus it gives out a huge burst of light making for very stark or very strong light.


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## Village Idiot (Feb 19, 2009)

JerryPH said:


> As can photographers too, but the point is all in how and where you find these people. I swear, I have *NO* issues finding models thanks to a couple of local photography forums and mostly from the Montreal Strobist group.
> 
> Example, this Saturday, I am again going to an event where there will be about 20-25 photographers, 30+ models and since we opened the door to the idea, about 10-15 make-up artists.
> 
> ...


 
I have connections too, but it can be hit or miss. Some Strobist meetups we've had pretty much every single model that said they were going to show, show. Some meetups we had one out of fourteen that were supposed to show end up coming. That one sucked because we had a minor league baseball team let us use their stadium for several hours.

We even started planning a month in advance and contacting people then.


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## Village Idiot (Feb 19, 2009)

silver163 said:


> how so? you cannot see how it is going to be prior plus it gives out a huge burst of light making for very stark or very strong light.


 
First off, where are you located? I'll even look to see if there's a local strobist group around you. If not, I'll start one.

We have one for the DC/Baltimore/NoVa region that has over 350 members and we always welcome new comers.

Second point. Learn what you're doing and practice on a friend before you go hunting on MM. I usually pick out the people with the crappiest profile pictures to contact because I _know_ I can do better than that.

Anyways, there's so much to lighting that your question could take paragraphs to answer, so I'll let Mr. Hobby do it himself.

Strobist: Lighting 101

Just remember this, that post is from March 2006. Strobist has blown up. There's a photo mag in the UK that did a story on Strobist recently. The equipment in the tutorials used to be some of the only stuff to use. With the popularity, more companies have created triggering devices and cheaper ways of doing things. You can get stuff for a lot cheaper now.

You'll see in the tutorial that there are ways of modifying light to get any look you want from it.

when you're done, check out the Flickr Strobist Discussion Group and the photo pool just to see some of the things you're capable of when using strobes.


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## silver163 (Feb 19, 2009)

unfortunately i cannot afford a strobe, im a student and im broke as possible.


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## silver163 (Feb 19, 2009)

to me strobes are just big bright flashes that you would see on the camera. in past results flash produced harsh lighting for me strobes seem to do the same.


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## Village Idiot (Feb 19, 2009)

silver163 said:


> unfortunately i cannot afford a strobe, im a student and im broke as possible.


 
You can find Vivitar 283's on Ebay for about $35.



silver163 said:


> to me strobes are just big bright flashes that you would see on the camera. in past results flash produced harsh lighting for me strobes seem to do the same.


 
Did you put anything in front of the strobe to diffuse the light?

Seriously, read the strobist link. Stop trying to say that (by the way strobe = flash, flash = strobe) that strobes don't work. They do. You don't know what you're doing yet so that's probably why you're getting results like that.

This was shot with a White Lightning monolight with an octabox:




This was shot with one Canon speed light on a stand with an umbrella:




What's harsh about this lighting?


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## silver163 (Feb 19, 2009)

how exactly do i power them if they apparently dont need electricity? i doubt my camera's batteries will be able to handle them.

also is there instructions on how i can build my own?


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## JerryPH (Feb 19, 2009)

silver163 said:


> how do you manage to take photos in a club? i tried that but flash is too hot and creates really poor quality photos and the lighting sucks.



You misunderstood... I meant "our club" as in our Stobist group, our photography club... not a bar or something.

However, that said, taking a picture in low light scenarios takes cameras that are clean at high ISO and having fast glass (both, which I am so happy to say, that I have).  I've seen many a nice club shot with a strobe, but the power of the strobe was so low, that it was maybe a stop or 2 above ambient and used as filler more than as the main light.

Concerning harshness... direct on camera flash is very limiting.  Getting the flash off camera is the first step any photographer should do when learning about lighting.

Even a snooted bare speedlight can be easily made to be "not harsh":


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## Village Idiot (Feb 19, 2009)

silver163 said:


> how exactly do i power them if they apparently dont need electricity? i doubt my camera's batteries will be able to handle them.
> 
> also is there instructions on how i can build my own?


 
Because they use AA batteries. 

Read the damn link:
Strobist: Lighting 101


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## silver163 (Feb 19, 2009)

i got a pentax k100d, it is not very fast at least to my knowledge. it really gets noisy at high iso


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## Sw1tchFX (Feb 19, 2009)

silver163 said:


> im a student.



There you go, you just solved your model problem!

Seriously, just stroll up to the hottest girl in the school, get to know her a little bit (this really isn't hard as long as you're not clingy) and then ask if it'd be cool if she'd model for your portfoli. Tell her what you want to do, what you want to become (which you would do anyway when you get to know her), tell her that she's gorgeous and that you think she'd be a perfect representation of what you want your portfolio to be. If you do a good enough job, _she'll be asking you_ to take pictures for her, free of charge just so she could have some awesome shots of her for myspace.


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## silver163 (Feb 19, 2009)

Sw1tchFX said:


> There you go, you just solved your model problem!
> 
> Seriously, just stroll up to the hottest girl in the school, get to know her a little bit (this really isn't hard as long as you're not clingy) and then ask if it'd be cool if she'd model for your portfoli. Tell her what you want to do, what you want to become (which you would do anyway when you get to know her), tell her that she's gorgeous and that you think she'd be a perfect representation of what you want your portfolio to be. If you do a good enough job, _she'll be asking you_ to take pictures for her, free of charge just so she could have some awesome shots of her for myspace.


 yeah here are two issues:

1. I am rather ugly according to about 100% of girls. So they refuse to speak with me. Even my notetaker refuses to talk to me.
2. Girls here are also very shallow and very stupid.


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## Village Idiot (Feb 19, 2009)

silver163 said:


> yeah here are two issues:
> 
> 1. I am rather ugly according to about 100% of girls. So they refuse to speak with me. Even my notetaker refuses to talk to me.
> 2. Girls here are also very shallow and very stupid.


 
1. You're not asking them out on a date.
2. Perfect. They'll want to have pictures on themselves.

Seriously though:
http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/03/lighting-101.html
www.lighting-essentials.com - Read the model behaviour part too.
www.zarias.com

Very good reads. If you would have read the first one, all your questions would have been answered.


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## Sw1tchFX (Feb 19, 2009)

silver163 said:


> yeah here are two issues:
> 
> 1. I am rather ugly according to about 100% of girls. So they refuse to speak with me. Even my notetaker refuses to talk to me.


I'm sure you're pretty funny, don't be so self conscious, what's the _worst_ that could happen, they say "no?". It happens, people say no, but you never know unless you ask!!



silver163 said:


> 2. Girls here are also very shallow and very stupid.



That's fine! like what Village idiot said, They'll want to have pictures of themselves!


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## bigtwinky (Feb 19, 2009)

There are models to be had almost anywhere.

- Models dont have to be women, men model too
- Models can be found in your circle of friends
- Models can be found in your family

You don't need someone with a model mahem or a wannabe model to shoot with.  You are looking for practice time as you learn, not getting a job with Vogue.

Now, if your family doesn't want to talk to you, you have no friends, you don't want to be labelled homosexual asking men to be models, you think you are ugly and can't go up to random women and ask and feel they are too mean to you to even consider asking, you are broke and can't take classes and don't have anything to present on a website to get models, don't or can't startup your own strobist or other photography group.....well....not sure what else you are looking from people here.

Maybe you can be your own model?  Get a $20 remote, set your scene, place a dummy where you will stand to check focus and exposure, move the dummy and stand in its place, snap away.


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## Sw1tchFX (Feb 19, 2009)

bigtwinky said:


> Now, if your family doesn't want to talk to you, you have no friends, you don't want to be labelled homosexual asking men to be models, you think you are ugly and can't go up to random women and ask and feel they are too mean to you to even consider asking, you are broke and can't take classes and don't have anything to present on a website to get models, don't or can't startup your own strobist or other photography group.....well....not sure what else you are looking from people here.
> 
> Maybe you can be your own model?  Get a $20 remote, set your scene, place a dummy where you will stand to check focus and exposure, move the dummy and stand in its place, snap away.



Oh that's so sad, there's so much opportunity there! It's kind of like saying "Get Confidence, Stupid!"


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## TheOtherBob (Feb 19, 2009)

bigtwinky said:


> There are models to be had almost anywhere.
> 
> - Models dont have to be women, men model too
> - Models can be found in your circle of friends
> - Models can be found in your family


 
This is good advice -- I'd add one other thing: it doesn't have to be one-on-one.  

Go up to a group of people -- hopefully people you know :er: -- and say that you're learning photography, would like to do a little group photoshoot, and would anyone be interested in being in the pictures?  

Make it a group activity, even if each shot is only of one person at a time, and it's no longer a "weird one-on-one thing," but rather just a "group of friends doing a new thing together."  

Now, when it _does_ come time to ask a hot girl out, I strongly advise you to throw caution to the wind, suffer the slings and arrows of life, and go for it.   But that's for another type of forum.


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## silver163 (Feb 19, 2009)

thanks ill try.

what about pentax k100d they always take a very long exposure for some reason. anyone know anything about them?


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## craig (Feb 19, 2009)

silver163 said:


> yeah here are two issues:
> 
> 1. I am rather ugly according to about 100% of girls. So they refuse to speak with me. Even my notetaker refuses to talk to me.
> 2. Girls here are also very shallow and very stupid.




There is so much misinformation in this thread it should be closed.

I know for a fact:

No one is ugly. 

Girls are not shallow and very stupid.

Hot lights (Tungsten) are an amazing tool. I have even used them for some my best modeling photos.

Model Mayhem does not suck. You need to network and build your book for it to work.

I have my own opinions about Strobist, but they are just my opinions not based on fact.

Love & Bass


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## Village Idiot (Feb 20, 2009)

silver163 said:


> thanks ill try.
> 
> what about pentax k100d they always take a very long exposure for some reason. anyone know anything about them?


 
Yeah, it's called aperture. 

Maybe you should learn about general photography before trying to conquer lighting and then worry about models.


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## JerryPH (Feb 20, 2009)

Village Idiot said:


> Yeah, it's called aperture.
> 
> Maybe you should learn about general photography before trying to conquer lighting and then worry about models.



Bingo!


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## bigtwinky (Feb 20, 2009)

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw_0_22?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=understanding+exposure+by+bryan+peterson&sprefix=understanding+exposu&sprefix=understanding+exposure"]Amazon.com: understanding exposure by bryan peterson[/ame]


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## silver163 (Feb 21, 2009)

Village Idiot said:


> Yeah, it's called aperture.
> 
> Maybe you should learn about general photography before trying to conquer lighting and then worry about models.


see here is the thing, that doesn't work. im retarded. even when the lens is open as much as possible, it still takes a 3 sec exposure at best.


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## JerryPH (Feb 21, 2009)

silver163 said:


> see here is the thing, that doesn't work. im retarded. even when the lens is open as much as possible, it still takes a 3 sec exposure at best.


 
Let me be honest... yes, there is a serious issue, but its not with the camera or lens... the issue is about 1 inch behind the camera.  Learn the basics, get them down tothe point that it is as easy as walking, chewing gum and breathing at the same time.

Unless you can get to that level... you will never get any further.

Learn the basics.


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## i Kandi Photography (Feb 22, 2009)

silver163 said:


> has anyone who done model photography in the past had issues with models? such as them being really nasty or wanting lots of money per photo even though they had 0 experience?


 
Since I have experience on both sides of the industry, I definitly dont feel models should be paid for their shoots. When I was modeling, I got to the point where i had SO many TFP shoots, that I would no longer do them and I would only do paid shoots. There were a few Photographers that needed to upgrade their portfolios, so they would pay. Now taht Im a photographer, I would NEVER pay a model! There is WAYYY to much money / time spent into photography for a Photographer to have to pay the model. There are TONS of beautiful girls out there that would love to do a TFP shoot for the prints. So if i run across a high maintenance model wanting to be paid, I would just say no thanks and look for someone that is ok with TFP.... Unless they want to pay you of course.


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## TheOtherBob (Feb 22, 2009)

silver163 said:


> see here is the thing, that doesn't work. im retarded. even when the lens is open as much as possible, it still takes a 3 sec exposure at best.


 
I agree with the others -- learn the basics before you do _anything_ else.  But one quick note about the aperture -- when you say "the lens is open as much as possible," but you're still getting slow shutter speeds, do you mean that the aperture numbers are low or high?  

Remember that with aperture, the lower the number, the wider the opening.  It's a common mistake -- I'm just trying to guess at what could be going on, but that could be one problem you're running into.  (Or not.)


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## silver163 (Feb 22, 2009)

TheOtherBob said:


> I agree with the others -- learn the basics before you do _anything_ else.  But one quick note about the aperture -- when you say "the lens is open as much as possible," but you're still getting slow shutter speeds, do you mean that the aperture numbers are low or high?
> 
> Remember that with aperture, the lower the number, the wider the opening.  It's a common mistake -- I'm just trying to guess at what could be going on, but that could be one problem you're running into.  (Or not.)


no i know this and the lens is open as wide as possible full lighting too but still slow exposure.


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## NateWagner (Feb 22, 2009)

silver163 said:


> no i know this and the lens is open as wide as possible full lighting too but still slow exposure.




ok, give us an example. 

Show a photo that you took describe the lighting, and give the exif data, including aperture, shutter speed, focal length, and ISO


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## silver163 (Feb 22, 2009)

NateWagner said:


> ok, give us an example.
> 
> Show a photo that you took describe the lighting, and give the exif data, including aperture, shutter speed, focal length, and ISO


no photo but this is the data i recorded when i was talking with pentax.

f/11
ISO 1600
55 mm

result: 3 sec exposure


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## sarallyn (Feb 22, 2009)

silver163 said:


> no photo but this is the data i recorded when i was talking with pentax.
> 
> f/11
> ISO 1600
> ...



f/11 is _very_ slow. is that the largest aperture on your lens? it doesn't go down to, say, 3.5, 4, or maybe 5.6? Remember, you need the number to be small in order to have a large aperture.


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## Village Idiot (Feb 23, 2009)

silver163 said:


> no photo but this is the data i recorded when i was talking with pentax.
> 
> f/11
> ISO 1600
> ...


 
Ha ha ha....You're funny.


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## rubbertree (Feb 23, 2009)

this thread has got to be a joke, right?


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