# booking problems



## Jaime Pennington (Mar 21, 2007)

Hello I am a new wedding photographer and I need some help. I am advertising on the Knot website and I have gotten about 50 inquiries and only 6 meetings from the inquiries. I am in the cheaper price bracket and out of the 6  or 8 of us I am probably the most expensive? Do you think that the clients are comparing only the price. Also, I am wondering why out of the six clients that I have met with only 1 has booked.  Should I send a follow up letter (I have already called them and they dont answer) At the actual meeting everyone acts so happy and cant wait to see the pictures at their wdding and then they tell me that they will look it over the package and call me next week.  I think that I might have a problem with my presentation. I have a portfolio but it is not in the album that I am trying to sell (could that look kind of unprofessional) it is in a nice leather album. Also I am meeting at a coffee shop. The one that I did sell was a more expensive package than the others that I have offered. I also work out of my home and don't give out my address unless I book the wedding. It is not on any of my paperwork. Also is there a busy season for inquiries.  Please help. Jaime


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## Big Mike (Mar 21, 2007)

Welcome to the forum.

As you are finding out, being successful in many businesses is just as much about sales & marketing as it is about being good at what you do.  Maybe look into taking some sales courses.  There is a subtle art to being a good salesman and closing a deal.  

One way to 'wow' them would be to put together an impressive sales package.  A nice folder with your business & photos on it, a well laid out price/package sheet or info sheet.  A DVD with a slide show of your images, a pen with your name on it, a fridge magnet...etc.  Give them this at the meeting, even if they don't hire you...they may keep your material and call you at a later time.  All this may cost $20 per kit...but if it helps close more deals, then it's worth it.

Do you have your own web site?  I think that is a very important tool.  

You have to look at the market segment that you are targeting or want to target and price accordingly.  You say that you are in the cheaper price bracket, but that you are the most expensive in that bracket.  This about it this way, the people who are looking for a photographer, based on price (in the lower bracket), will probably choose the lower priced photographers...so  you may have placed yourself in a bad spot.

If you raise your prices, to get out of the lower price range, then you won't be attracting these bargain hunters and should hopfully attract clients that are more interested in the quality of your services.  I've heard from many wedding photographers who have said that their business really took off, only after they raised (or doubled) their prices.

Another good point that I've heard again and again, is that working for the bargain hunters is quite often a pain in the rear.  They are always nickel and dimeing you, trying to squeeze as much value out of you as they can...without paying more, of course.  So by raising your prices, you can also attract a better client.


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## Jim Gratiot (Mar 21, 2007)

If you're getting 1 booking for every 50 inquiries (2%), you shouldn't have anything to worry about.  Considering how expensive a wedding photographer is, that's a pretty good rate.

Your main concern should be getting more people to your web site (and maybe consider setting up your own site).  Then, as Mike said, read some marketing/sales books... but definitely do not lower your prices.  Because it makes more sense to shoot (6) $5,000 weddings than (15) $2,000 weddings.

That being said, work on your sales presentation... but bottom line is that it's common to get a lot of "looky-loo" type inquiries, people who have no intention of buying.  2% isn't bad... if you can work on getting 500 queries instead of 50.

Sorry if that was rambling... but I think you're in better shape than you think you are.


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## dewey (Mar 21, 2007)

Jim Gratiot said:


> If you're getting 1 booking for every 50 inquiries (2%), you shouldn't have anything to worry about.  Considering how expensive a wedding photographer is, that's a pretty good rate.



Really?  I have to disagree.  If I only got one booking for every 50  inquiries I would be doing something wrong.  I guess it depends on what we call an  inquiry - a phone call or an email?  If that's the case 2% is *amazingly* bad.  If 98 out of 100 people do not choose you after an inquiry you're not doing your job on the business side.  This is not a dog at you - I'm being honest so you can improve.

Anybody with enough training, experience and equipment can take wedding pictures... not everybody can succeed on the business side.

Jamie if you truly want to make it as a successful wedding photographer read on and do not take this as anything bad!

Price is not always the main concern for brides to be.  There are some who will say the higher the price the better, but in reality it depends on where you live.  If your business is in Minto, New Brunswick chances are you're not booking any $6,000 weddings.   I would say you don't want to be the lowest, so where you are sounds right.  

Now, you really have 3 different statistics here.  First as Jim mentioned you are booking 2% of your inquiries which is too low.  I know it costs me on average $20 for each lead I get, so if I booked only 2% of those leads I'd be in trouble fast.  Second you met with 6 people out of 50 inquiries which is a 12% conversion rate.  To some this might be a good number but in reality you will want to be in the 50% range.  Last out of those 6 meetings you booked 1 couple which is just over 16%.  Again just being honest that's too low.

Find out how much it costs you per lead.  How much does it cost you per meeting?  What do you give your prospective clients?  Do you give them a nice folder with your marketing paperwork inside?  Are you a good salesperson?  Are you confident in your work?  

These are all very important things to consider.

I'm interested to know what happened with these other 5 meetings you did not book.  How did the meeting start / proceed / end?  If you let them leave without booking you can count them out usually.  Like any sales person you have to sell them while they are in front of you.  Are you asking them to book you or are you letting them run the meeting?  

Every meeting with a potential client for me goes something like this:

- 15 minutes - my introduction, my bio and my style
- 15 minutes - I ask about their wedding, their style, their needs
- 5 minutes - we discuss money, which package, payment
- 15 to 45 minutes - small talk about the wedding and initial planning

I don't approach a meeting with a potential client as an opportunity to book them, I consider them booked and we just need to meet and sort out the paperwork.  With this approach I am more confident and they pick up on this.  Many brides will tell me that they chose me not because of price or features, but because they thought I was genuine and I knew what I was talking about.  I have also heard it was because of how I dressed.  There are SO many cheesy, sleezy wedding photographers out there that you need to be a cut above.  What are you wearing to these meetings?  I would wear a long sleeve dress shirt and a tie to your meetings to look professional.

Also as Big Mike mentioned a professional website is a must - people who contact me have already seen my work, so they know what they're getting.  Do you have a website?  Tell us more about your operation and we'll try to stear you right.

Don't give up - Book that wedding! :thumbup:


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## Jim Gratiot (Mar 21, 2007)

Dewey:

I agree... it largely depends on your definition of "inquiry."  I was thinking of the more casual "window-shopper" type people, not serious prospects.   If we're talking about the latter, I'll concede that 2% is way too low.  

It also depends where the inquires are coming from.  A bride randomly finding your name on the Internet is a much less serious inquiry than a bride who was personally recommended by a couple whose wedding you shot.



> I don't approach a meeting with a potential client as an opportunity to book them, I consider them booked and we just need to meet and sort out the paperwork.


Just as a point of reference... what % of these meetings do you normally book?  I love your attitude, and I'm sure it reflects well in your conversion rate.



> Find out how much it costs you per lead. How much does it cost you per meeting? What do you give your prospective clients? Do you give them a nice folder with your marketing paperwork inside? Are you a good salesperson? Are you confident in your work?


 
Jaime:  take Dewey's questions to heart.  It will help you focus your thinking... and will indeed boost your conversion rate.  Good luck!


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## niccig (Mar 21, 2007)

I agree a website is a must!  When I got married (before I got into photography) I was overwhelmed by the number of wedding photographers in my area - so at first I didn't even consider one who didn't have a professional-looking website.  Though for budget reasons I did end up hiring an art student who I heard about from my husband's sister.


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## dewey (Mar 21, 2007)

Jim Gratiot said:


> Dewey: Just as a point of reference... what % of these meetings do you normally book?  I love your attitude, and I'm sure it reflects well in your conversion rate.



It has improved every year for me - last year I averaged 85% conversion on meetings and this year so far (knocking on wood) I have booked 100% of the people I have met with which has not come without a lot of long hours and hard work.

Speaking of these meetings - I spend about $30 on each package I give out to my clients in my presentation.  Jamie what are you giving out at these meetings?  Do you give a folder of some kind to your potential clients?

Also you mention you do not give out your address which by itself isn't a bad thing, but you should at least have a standard letterhead across all of your paperwork.  You can always get a PO box if you want to keep your home address secret.


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## Jaime Pennington (Mar 27, 2007)

Thanks for the help. I do have a website maybe you could look at it to tell me what you think.www.abbalyn.com


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## Jaime Pennington (Mar 27, 2007)

Thanks for your help. All of my inquiries have been from the knot website and they usually say do you have my date available and what are your package prices.I also have a website.


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## Jaime Pennington (Mar 27, 2007)

I have a cute but subtle folder with my package price sheets, contract, a magnet and a postcard with photos that I have taken on it.


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## guitarkid (Apr 1, 2007)

Jaime, when i first saw this post i thought i wrote it. i had to look at the name a couple times to make sure it wasn't me. i'm in the same boat as you with the knot. i don't have a lot of money, still work the day job to support my home and bills, etc. i have been on the knot for over a year...same story....

i MIGHT get an email once a week or maybe twice a week and they all look the same...do you have this date available and please send pricing. ok, so i have an email that i copy and paste that basically says yes your date is available, and pricing starts out at $1100 for 6 hours coverage and 200 photos on CD.....out of the 800 we take. you also get online proofing for 4 months. i then ask a couple questions to get them to respond....rarely get a response. i'm convinced the knot has people on staff to FEED US lines to make us believe they are the best source to advertise with. i believe they don't have the following they say they have and they hire people with bogus address to tease us. my wife thinks i'm nuts but it can't be this bad. 

the same as you; if i get to meet a couple, it's usually about 1 couple out of every 40 or 50 emails and this is over the course of 3 months by the way. half of them sign right there and the others do not. 

AND i have the nice website where they already saw my work and pricing and they talk to me on the phone and THEN we met....and then they STILL want to think about it. i start by talking about what we offer and i show them the wedding album that goes over well with most couples, and i ask them questions about their wedding, etc.  i take the laid back approach and don't force them. i treat them how i would want to be treated. i actually met a very nice couple today from the knot....first one in months from the knot. they saw all my work and pricing and website before we met in person today. they love my work and approach and they want to look things over....gave them the contract. i said that is fine. i handed them a couple biz cards and said please call or email with any questions. i told them as of now the date is available and i will contact them if another bride asks for it.....they liked that. they also thanked me for not pressuring them since a few studios they went to didn't want them to leave. they told them things such as....you better hurry, dates are filling! that's not cool. so she thanked me for not forcing them or pressuring them.

back to the topic. i have spent way too much money on the knot and other avenues with very little return. i think i will cancel my contract but i'm not sure yet.  i keep thinking that maybe an email will come through.  people say word of mouth is the best....and that's great if you have years behind your biz.  i don't......you have to start somewhere.  my pricing goes from $1100 to $2300. maybe i should raise them but that makes me nervous as well. check out my site and see what you think.... www.sarweddings.com

and someone suggested you close the sale no matter what when you meet.  that's all and good but what line would you use if they say they want to think about it, as they get up and go.  you can't say much on that one.

good luck to you. sorry for the long post.


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## AprilRamone (Apr 2, 2007)

Steve, one there are a couple things that jump out at me right away about your website.  The first is that right away when you look at it, it doesn't shout "Photography" website.  It looks rather businessy.  (I know that's not a word)  I think if you picked a really good main image and had it more prominent it would help.  The other thing I noticed right away is that your samples are all just in one big section.  I would split them up according to couple if you are going to have that many, or organize them in some way.  Or if you want to just have one section, only show the VERY best of what you have and edit out some of the photos.  A lot of people probably don't care about seeing a random shot of someone's dad giving a speech, unless it's really well done.  Those are the kind of shots that probably won't sell you as much as the nice ones of the Bride and Groom looking good and happy together.  I may be wrong, but that's just my opinion.  Good luck!


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## guitarkid (Apr 2, 2007)

thanks for your opinion and although i think i know what you're saying, i'm not quite sure it matters. i have seen MANY sites that plaster a few wedding photos all over the main page but you aren't quite sure how to enter. more than 3 seconds of not knowing and i'm gone, on to the next site. my site is clean and organized well, which is the main thing. maybe i will remove some photos from the samples, who knows.

didn't you see the 4 wedding photos fading in and out of each other on the main page...with the bride holding the flowers? that should be a dead giveaway, as well as the wording...Chicago wedding photography. maybe you clicked on the wrong site.

As far as people not caring about some photo of some guy giving a speech, i do agree with you, BUT i have been told before by a couple brides that it looks like only my best photos are on the site and they wanted to know if i had REAL photos. and again, i have seen many sites where that is the case. It looks obvious that only the best are on the site so I wanted to mix it up a bit and put some "normal" ones up there as well. Maybe I will get rid of them and put some more photos up on various pages. 

Now, here is a site that looks like garbage. They are in Chicago burbs and get many clients. Granted, they have been in business for years but the site is in massive need of help......tell me what you think....it's WAY TOO BUSY first of all.... artcraftphoto.com

I saw your site and it looks good, being that it is simple and easy to navigate.  The only thing is there are no prices that I could find.  Do you think that could hurt you?  I would personally want to know because I don't have time to contact someone and wait for a response.  So my point is, it could be anything at all that turns someone off but the biggest picture is getting out there.  Maybe I'm wrong but I think a website acts as a homebase and advertising comes first.  Once they know about you then they can get to your site.....unless you are number 1-5 on the search engines...good luck with that.

thanks, 
steve


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## dewey (Apr 2, 2007)

guitarkid said:


> check out my site and see what you think.... www.sarweddings.com



You asked.

AprilRamone didn't go to the wrong site smart guy... but you can choose to ignore the opinions you asked for.  

I  agree about the feel of the site.  I see the photos, but the design is more for products and less for wedding photography to me.  Another thing is while your website is nice as far as design goes, I was scratching my head trying to find package pricing.  I clicked on products (which sounds a bit industrial, brides want to buy photography not products) and saw your products, but was confused on prices.  Are photos included with these prices?  Ahh then I see to click Photo pricing button on the left and I see the packages in there.  It's just not the most straight forward way to present packages - people have to go find them.

I have pretty detailed webstats on my site and I find people go to the home page, click on the weddings section, then click on packages, then some bail out, and the rest go on to click on albums... etc.  I would say easy navigation to your packages is critical.

Steve you seem to always have something negative to say about the business... I would quit worrying about other peoples websites (it shows real class calling someone elses site trash) and other peoples business and worry about YOUR business.  If your attitude about your photography business is the same as your attitude here on this forum I would say that's the big problem and nothing else.

Sitting at home complaining how bad things are will never make anything better.  I succeeded in the business with a lot of time, sleepless nights, spend money, etc just like everyone else.  When you turn photography into a business you inherit all of the problems any business has - money, advertising, cash flow etc.  Treat it like a business and get out there!  Go post flyers or hand out business cards or place photos in local bridal businesses.  Make friends with reception halls and hotels.  Make alliances with DJs and wedding planners.  Get out there!

You can't just build a website and advertise and wait for the bookings.  I guess you can, but then don't whine about how slow it takes to build business.

Have a positive attitude and be happy - it takes time.


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## guitarkid (Apr 2, 2007)

dew, sorry if you took it as whiney and i'm not bitching to anyone on this site, sorry if you took it that way. what would you suggest i use as far as wording goes for pricing....i thought "photo pricing" was pretty good. "products" is just what it states...products...add ons after the sale such as photo albums, etc. and photo pricing is just what it states....photo pricing. if you were confused by the 3 prices on that page, please tell me how to clarify since i don't know how to make it more clear...not being negative, but please let me know how you would like to see it so i can make it better. many sites just state PRICING. i added the word PHOTO to it.

as far as negative goes, yes, you got it, sorry to offend. that's what forums are for at times, i thought. i spent the last 4 years doing the flyers, emailing and calling bridal places, reception halls, wedding planners, DJ's, driving to halls, gone 12 hours a day at the day job just to come home and stay up till midnight or 2am working on the biz, you name it. i sold a couple really high priced guitars i can never get back to pay for much advertising in large chicago mags and online for a years worth of advertising. so i gave it my all with very little results over the last 3 years. 

as far as the site i mentioned that was garbage, that is my opinion. there is also some bad history with that photographer, that no one knows of, that caused me to say the word garbage, and that was being nice. that doesn't matter. because the site is garbage, it is seen as me slamming a fellow photographer. maybe i should have said, it's not that good. i say what i feel. i looked at other sites on this forum and they are very nice. i spend a lot of time surfing the web looking at ideas and that site i mentioned is very 80's and too busy - looking so i deemed it as garbage, sorry.

so to anyone who was offended, i know what it is like to run a biz, been at it for 6 years total if you include the video and audio engineering biz so i'm very familiar with it.  

in any case, i thank you all for your help and again, sorry if i came across too negative. my sales pitch and cust. service doesn't reflect that....it only shows here when i'm frustrated and looking for help. after seeing so many bad photographers out there on the web and seeing what they make in a year and that they are always working, it plays on you after awhile.

i am not a quitter at anything in life but i know when i'm fighting a losing battle. the market is simply too saturated with the digital age and after a year more i think i may be hanging it up and focusing on what is working out; my recording studio engineering bands and making records. i love photography and that is why i am so bummed. i'm not getting clients to do what i love and i'm running out of money fast.  i do it for the love of it and i can't do it as much as what i would like. 

again, sorry to those who took it personal. i will keep the negativity to myself.


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## AprilRamone (Apr 2, 2007)

Hi Steve,
My website is NO WHERE near where I want it to be.  I do eventually want to have pricing up there and a ton of other things that I want to change about it.  But, right now, I haven't had time or the resources to pay someone to do it how I want or to do it myself.  So it is on my agenda to do for the business hopefully sometime in the next year or so.  Basically, I did a trade with a webdesigner just to get something on the web where I could show my work.  That's all my website is. Basically just a place to show what I have.  
All I was saying about yours is that the general look of it is just not pretty enough for a bride.  She is the one looking for the photography and may not care as much about price right away as the groom, so you have to reel her in with a really romantic/snazzy looking webpage right away.  
And, when you were in business before, did you make a profit right away?  I've heard it before a million times is that new businesses usually don't make a profit until the 3-5th year of being in business.  Obviously some people can do it the first year, but starting a business is expensive and I think your feelings of despair are pretty common.  But, don't give up just because things didn't work out right away.  In fact, you said you were pretty much breaking even.  That's a good thing.  As you get more established, you'll probably start to slowly generate more profit.  
Also, you say you look at other photographers on the web and get frustrated knowing what they make.  How do you know what they are making?  Maybe they are barely breaking even too?  
Also, if your recording studio is working out better, maybe you really are on to something.  You can always do photography on the side every once in awhile and it sounds like you'd like it better that way because you wouldn't be depending on it to make your money.
Just my .03 
-April


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