# Mentoring system suggestion



## Overread

UPDATE this scheme is now (and has been for a while) running. You can find the bios of the mentors on offer here: http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/beyond-basics/125099-official-mentors-bio-list.html

Please note all on the list should be available to mentor, but some have reduced their forum surfing time. A private message should reach them without problems, but do be patient when waiting and give them a few days to respond. 



Been toying with this idea for a while now, and TPF looks to be a big enough community to try such an approach (other forums I am on for photographer are much much smaller).

Basically this site has a good range of experienced photographers and also a large number of newer, less experienced photographers. At the moment we post up our shots and see what people say, but at times I think some are looking for more than just compliments as to their current skill and are looking for something more - those harsh words about the small errors and what to do next time. At the moment its a rather hit and miss system, mostly as the rate of new threads is fast so its possible for some peoples posts to get overlooked and dropped off the page - even with bumping.
My suggestion then is a simple one - experienced members opt for being "mentors" to the inexperienced members - selected by the mentor (so you could watch one or one hundred members at once). As part of this the mentor would be expected (hoped) to comment fully on photos posted by the beginners and to advise to the best of their ability.

Now some might say that they would prefer pms from members if they want specific crits on work, but I can say that - especially when you have not been here for a year- that many people feel that its rather rude to pm a person to pester them for comments.

This is just an idea I have so I don't for one minute think that its got all the parts ironed out - but are there any here who think that this idea could work - specifically I am looking for support from the experienced site members as I think many beginners would jump at the chance for this but without support from the upper levels (as it were) this won't get of the ground
So any thoughts anyone?

SO far people interested in being mentors are;
christopher walrath
tirediron 
Alpha 
That One Guy 
amandakifer

any more willing to partake in this - the more the we get the better this will be.


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## Samriel

The number of the mentors is going to be by far smaller than the number of students - either the mentors are going to get flooded with work, or there will be a selection process which will, for better or worse, discriminate users and mentors. Mentors would probably like to pick their students, and students would probably like to pick the mentors by field of interest (a beginner into fashion photography would probably prefer somebody with studio work experience over a landscape and wildlife professional). Not sure if such a system will bring the results to justify the effort needed to run it.


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## christopher walrath

I would like to right up front volunteer my time as an e-mentor for film beginners using color and/or black and white film in small and medium format. I have shot weddings (haven't we all) and portraiture on a limited basis. I have run the books for a small photography business. I am a firm believer in simpler is better but a lot needs to be learned in order to get to the point where you realize which simpler is better than the rest. I'm huge on creativity and vision and light on rules. I am heavy on the fundamentals of photography.

Even without an official TPF program if any other photographers would like to ask me any questions, feel free to PM me or email me.




*EDIT: I would like to implore anyone reading this thread that might be willing to impart some wisdom on an up and learning photographer to please take part in this soon-to-be program.  As mentioned above, the more mentors we have, the wider base of knowledge demands we can meet and the better this program will be.  There has already been an overwhelming interest shown by prospective students and we will need all of the mentors we can get.*


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## Battou

Something like this will be very tough to pull off, almost as difficult to exicute efficiently as a dedicated crit forum. The Idea holds some merrit but it revolves too much on volenteers I feel.


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## plentygood

Yeah, it's a great idea in theory, but there's a lot of places it could go wrong as it is:

1) Lack of effort/dedication by volunteers
2) Possibly too much work for mentors to look over
3) There's probably some new posters that nobody would want to "mentor", kind of like the last kid picked on the playground.

I think the idea does hold merit though and it could be worth a try.


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## Alex_B

Do I remember right that we already had this idea long time ago on this forum? Not sure.

I can see some complications here, most of them related to the workload of the mentors. Most people cannot supply a constant amount of time to this forum, since they have to earn money, please their family, travel for work or vacation ... all in all, it will be hard to establish a mentor-system without generating frustrated novices who feel left alone since their mentor has no chance to react for weeks or months.


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## Village Idiot

Half the time the photos I see asking for C&C are snapshots and I don't feel they deserve a post from me...

Plus I'm harsh. I don't want to make anyone cry.


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## tirediron

I think the idea is a good one, and it does have merit; certainly I would be willing to donate time to it.  There would have to be a fairly detailed plan put in place, and people asking for mentorship should be asked to abide by some sort of "I won't cry if I'm told it's crap" agreement.


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## Alex_B

I think not harsh comments will be the problem, since people asking for mentoring want to learn and are  prepared that the world is not all honey  ... but time management and workload for the mentors will be the huge problem.


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## christopher walrath

Just slingin' stuff around here for you all's consideration.  Why not simply have a list of members/susbscriers here that would be willing to mentor and anyone interested in gleaning info from that photographer would simply contact them through, say, a PM and the mentor and the student could then set up what they want on their own terms.  And I agree, a tutoring service based at TPF might be difficult to manage as there might not be enough mentors to handle particular demand at any given time.  That's why I think the private one on one would well.  Just have TPF post a list and let the participants take it from there.


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## Overread

I like that idea chris - less formal and it does let people know who good at what around the place and also sends and OK message to pms out.
Though it might initially lack the student-mentor relationship which would be set-up by the initial suggestion it does let such a relationship develop under more relaxed conditions.
However something like that could end up with some members (especially when they are the only one in a specific topic) being pmed to extreme levels - and most people don't like to leave pms unanswered so that could lead to an even greater workload. Though saying that the crits thread is not growing at a phenominal rate at the moment so it could be that there are fewer out there who are after serious photographical advice - which is not so say bad of them, its just not what they are after.


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## dylj

I have an idea to narrow down the field of novices -- You only want dedicated learners right (Like me  I'll get you coffee and kiss your feet)? You could have anyone interested in being mentored write a short (500 word) personal statement. A statement of intent. I think that would go a long way in eliminating people who aren't too serious. It would have the added bonus of letting the mentors know the novices better ...


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## Alpha

I'm game. I already respond to PM's for personal critique as it is. Why not make an actual habit of it?


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## christopher walrath

If I were PM'ed I would hope the photographer would mention what it was they wished to learn and then I would see if I could help.  At least, PM's could be responded to to let the sender know whether or not you are interested/able to help.  It might also be of slightly more important to try and match people regionally so that occasionally the mentor/mentee(s) (?) could meet for a smallish workshop kinda thing.


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## amandakifer

I agree this is a good idea... I already mentor someone locally.  My only main concern is finding people that don't just want you to say "cute picture".  

I'd be game to help if something gets off the ground.


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## Overread

Chris and Amanda - I see this as being a more formal system and so I think those that sign up (the students) will be looking for more serious comments and also looking for a good dialogue with the mentor - rather than just quick one post "great shot" responces - certainly the people who have put themselves forward to be mentors have not given the impression that those are the types of comments that they are looking to give either.
As for regional matching - I think that as this is such and international forum such an idea has merrit, but I don't think its something that is really practical = though certainly people can meetup if they can, but I think it better to match interests rather than locations


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## That One Guy

i would be willing to help out all that i can. those of you that have seen my work, would you consider me to be a good candidate for a mentor?


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## flygning

I think that this is a great idea, as long as the mentor and the student are willing to put some effort into it.

Perhaps it could be set up so that the mentor dedicated a certain amount of time, or number of messages/posts, or some other measurable yardstick, per student they agree to help out.  Anything above and beyond that first agreed level of "service" would be completely up to the mentor and would not be expected by the student.

Perhaps, to ensure there would be only serious students, and to make it worth the while of the mentor, there could be a monetary system in place.  Something through paypal would be simple-- I pay someone a certain amount of money for their time and effort, and I get quality feedback and I learn something.  It wouldn't even have to be a lot of money.

I think something like this would work as long as it were set up well.  As for the critique thread, I haven't gotten a single comment on anything I've posted, so a dedicated mentor who was willing to put up with some confused questions would really help me out.


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## Overread

I don't like the idea of attaching money to this - its like attaching a seal of approval to the mentors and would have to go through the site - at which point there are more complications (a student complaining that thier mentor is not good enough etc...)
I think the essay idea has merrit - possibly a post count or membership time as well for students could be put in place


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## plentygood

I think involving money would just be asking for trouble.  Someone would get their feelings hurt, feel like it's not worth their time and money, etc. and want money back.  Not to mention, hardly anyone would want to pay for critiques.  I'd personally love to get hardcore critiques on my photos that I don't get now (hence, I hardly post my pictures anymore) but I'm not going to pay for someone's opinion online.


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## christopher walrath

I don't want any money. I'm gonna be a little more in depth than 'Kudos on the Boff Composition, Mitsy. Smashing imagery!' (PUKE!)

I see someone PMing me, having seen somewhere what I can teach and knowing what they want, having similar interests photographically. They may choose me because they live near me, may not. But if it is someone who is willing to learn then the transaction will benefit photography in immeasurable quantities. And I wanna do my part.


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## Alex_B

flygning said:


> Perhaps, to ensure there would be only serious students, and to make it worth the while of the mentor, there could be a monetary system in place.  Something through paypal would be simple-- I pay someone a certain amount of money for their time and effort, and I get quality feedback and I learn something.  It wouldn't even have to be a lot of money.



While I see and understand the idea behind this, i agree that money means asking for trouble. This will have so many implications, even probably for the owners of this website ... big no no.

Also, it changes the mentor's attitude. If I do something for free, then I know it is a sort of gift or donation from me, so it comes just from my goodwill and I can put a lot of effort into it.

If however I get money for something, then at some point I will start asking myself, what is my hourly income from this? Does it pay off? And then effort will certainly go down.


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## christopher walrath

Yeah, I'm with Alex on this money thing.  This idea totally feeds into my whole 'pass it on' philosophy of things, especially with photography.  I would never ask for a cent more than it might cost me.  As long as it is advice and free research and mentoring and tutelage, no income is required.  And I don't foresee this going further than that.  Of course that would be on a case by case basis.


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## christopher walrath

So can we get a roll call started of those interested in participating as mentors? This might give us an idea as to whether or not this thing could fly and we can go from there.


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## christopher walrath

Duh, number one here.


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## Overread

I'll setup a list in the first post as people opt on for being mentors


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## Peanuts

I would be available to mentor one or two individuals who are serious about their photography   If a write up about myself is needed I would be happy to do so


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## Joves

It sounds like a fairly good idea. I for one am never here enough, I used to do this with kids who wanted to be astronomers. Then I had more time and, it was a week-end thing. I pretty much miss doing it.


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## Terri Walsh

Again, I would love someone to help me out.  I really want to start a business by next year (pregnant) and I just dont want to do so until I am READY!!!!


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## That One Guy

Terri Walsh said:


> Again, I would love someone to help me out.  I really want to start a business by next year (pregnant) and I just dont want to do so until I am READY!!!!



I am sure any of us would be more than willing to help. If you have specific questions, you could always send a pm to those on the list until the mentor program starts


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## tirediron

I'll throw my name in the ring for this; the type of work I do is on my website.


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## Jedo_03

I'd be reluctant to put my name up - available to PM by any individual who wants advice or cc... isn't that what the beginners forum is for??
My previous (ill-fated :er post was about just that: posters submitting snapshots taken with a new camera and asking whether the shots were "professional"...
I think anyone who puts their name forward may soon find themselves inundated by requests for advice that "should" be posted on the board.
eg "Hi - noobie here, just got meself a 40D, here's some shots I took. Care to cc? as I'm planning going Pro next weekend shooting a wedding..."
Maybe...
Maybe another way would be where a would-be Mentor sees a poster who seems genuine and shows a bit of promise (He who knows not - and knows that he knows not, can be taught: Teach him. Confucious) could approach the poster and offer to be a mentor... 
And maybe... Just maybe...
If that practice came to be accepted, 'other' posters would start to submit better quality pictures in the hope that...
Or even -
"Mentor wanted: please look at my pictures and if you think I show any promise of improvement please PM me. Thankyou."
Now I, for one, might respond to that...
Jedo


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## tirediron

Jedo_03 said:


> <snipped>
> 
> Or even -
> "Mentor wanted: please look at my pictures and if you think I show any promise of improvement please PM me. Thankyou."
> Now I, for one, might respond to that...
> Jedo


 
That sounds like an excellent idea to me!


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## davidfromoz

Hi Everybody,

Well this seems very exciting to me.

Should prospective mentees post here too?  Or PM a mentor?  Or wait?

I'm a bit afraid the idea won't get off the ground.  For it to work it would be nice if there were a way to prevent the mentor being overloaded or having their time wasted.  One proposal might be for the mentee to write up the subject of each discussion or point of learning for the review of the entire forum?

cheers,
david


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## Onion

i think this will be like the other idea threds latey that nothing happens with.

maybe the critcs and mentors sould update theyre profile and include a link to some work they do. explain why theyre a good mentor. then instead of waiting for the pm's to roll in, look through the forums for people asking for cc. show you kno what you are talking abot.

i sugest including a signature like jedoO3 said exspt for mentors. maybe

I WANT TO HELP YOU PLEESE PM ME FOR DETAILS

and for the mentee

I WANT YOUR HELP PLEESE PM ME FOR DETAILS

i stil think the best is when you see someone ask for help give it to them. if you want help ask for it


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## Overread

Jedo - this dissucssion has sort of split - but I have tried to address some of your concerns with the system here: http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=124295


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## Jim H

Jedo_03 said:


> I'd be reluctant to put my name up - available to PM by any individual who wants advice or cc .... I think anyone who puts their name forward may soon find themselves inundated by requests for advice that "should" be posted on the board.


 Agree with Jedo on the paraphrase above. I would be happy to mentor one maybe two beginners - but for those stated reasons, would want a mechanism or interview or something in place to help weed out those that are looking for the quick fix (or buck) of everything "right now!" vs those that are truly interested in learning about the basics of photography and expanding upon and developing their skills.


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## That One Guy

Jedo_03 said:


> I'd be reluctant to put my name up - available to PM by any individual who wants advice or cc... isn't that what the beginners forum is for??
> My previous (ill-fated :er post was about just that: posters submitting snapshots taken with a new camera and asking whether the shots were "professional"...
> I think anyone who puts their name forward may soon find themselves inundated by requests for advice that "should" be posted on the board.
> eg "Hi - noobie here, just got meself a 40D, here's some shots I took. Care to cc? as I'm planning going Pro next weekend shooting a wedding..."
> Maybe...
> Maybe another way would be where a would-be Mentor sees a poster who seems genuine and shows a bit of promise (He who knows not - and knows that he knows not, can be taught: Teach him. Confucious) could approach the poster and offer to be a mentor...
> And maybe... Just maybe...
> If that practice came to be accepted, 'other' posters would start to submit better quality pictures in the hope that...
> Or even -
> "Mentor wanted: please look at my pictures and if you think I show any promise of improvement please PM me. Thankyou."
> Now I, for one, might respond to that...
> Jedo



i think jedo has a good point. i hadn't really thought about it like that jedo. thanks for bringing this up.
maybe we should "pick out" the ones that do show promise. those who have passed the "i just got my camera" stage.


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## Peanuts

I concur with what has been discussed.  Just a thought but perhaps a thread should be started specifically for that 'interviewing' process.  The mentors should give a brief intro - two images of their work (something like that).  Then there should be a separate thread for those who want to be mentored with a brief intro and two of their favourite work.  Then the mentors can hand choose who they think will be a good fit.  Once it has been determined then both mentors and mentorees can edit the beginning of their post "TAKEN" or something along those lines.

Just a thought


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## That One Guy

Peanuts said:


> I concur with what has been discussed.  Just a thought but perhaps a thread should be started specifically for that 'interviewing' process.  The mentors should give a brief intro - two images of their work (something like that).  Then there should be a separate thread for those who want to be mentored with a brief intro and two of their favourite work.  Then the mentors can hand choose who they think will be a good fit.  Once it has been determined then both mentors and mentorees can edit the beginning of their post "TAKEN" or something along those lines.
> 
> Just a thought



very nice idea:thumbup:


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## Alpha

Where's this official thread? I'm in.

I think a sticky with mentor profiles is in order.


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## Overread

Ok, so I can get an idea of who is in for this could all people intending to be MENTORS please send me a pm - this pm should contain basic info about you and your photography. So a little history, the whys and the hows as well as a kit list, links to samples of your work, any websites or blogs you are running.
Also you should include what you are able to provide to a student (basically what your main areas of interest and understanding are - so nature, wildlife, macro, landscape, people etc... - the only limit is your skills so don't fear putting down more than one type)
Also include anything that you are looking for in a possible student - this could be anything or nothing, but importantly note down a rough (none of us will know till we start this) number of students that you feel you can support through the site


Also could all people please check this thread also:
http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=124295

Thanks


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## christopher walrath

Man, y'all benn busy little bees last night.  So, you all see the way Overread and I and others have been seeing this take shape . . .

We have asd TPF for at least a seperate sub-forum, at the very least a sticky thread to stay on top of wherever we choose for our new home.  (I think Overread's beyond Basics forum idea is best)
We each (mentors) are placed onto the first post of this thread, added by the author as he receives their info (Name, Gear, Photographic history, edu, preferences, Geo location, etc).  Prospective students go through the list and then contact these mentors on their own, not via the thread.  There will be a few things put into the thread such as 'This is for serious long-term educational partnerships.  First time C&C's should redirect to the Beginner's forum.'  Something like that.  The rest is up to us individually and we can use the thread/sub-forum for bouncing teaching ideas and such back and forth and for any local gathering information.


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## caspertodd

My only problem with PMs is that no one else on the forum will learn from it.  I learn a lot reading the threads that people start asking for help.  The assistance you are offering through a PM may infact help me as well.


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## christopher walrath

This is not for 'Can anyone help me' type questions.  This is for 'Hey, you shoot medium format black and white film cameras on the East Caost.  You're good with flash and the Zone System.  I live near you.  Would you mind helping me out.  I have similar interests and want tolearn to apply these to my landscape and portraiture photography like you have'

The Mentoring program is going to be pretty teacher/student specific.  And most of these teachers ALREADY answer your questions out in the beginners forums.  But that is not the purpose of the Mentoring Program.

By the by, guys.  We should have a clearly defined mission statement that we can place in the thread that everyone can completely ignore as well.


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## Overread

caspertodd said:


> My only problem with PMs is that no one else on the forum will learn from it. I learn a lot reading the threads that people start asking for help. The assistance you are offering through a PM may infact help me as well.


 
That is an important point casper and one I overlooked!
I think it would be easy to say to mentors and students that as and where possible you should try to keep forum side acitve - that is to say if a student needs input or advise about a photo that they post it up - this way others can still benefit from the system


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## kellylindseyphotography

I'd like to do both, if possible. If anyone *wants* me for a mentor (thinks I'm qualified), I'd be happy to!

I'd LOVE to have a mentor.


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## Alpha

I sent this to Overread via PM. I'm gonna post it here just to see how people react, and whether there are other things anyone thinks I ought to include.

_Style_
I consider photography to be a sort of metaphysical taxidermy. I shoot anything and everything but have a preference for people. I learned most of what I know about portraits from a North Carolina photographer named Caroline Vaughan, of which I am one of her multi-year subjects. She studied under Imogen Cunningham and Minor White. I move carelessly between portraits, abstracts, landscape, beauty and fashion. I have a general distaste for campy bull****: senior portraits at odd angles, boring family portraits in the local park, faux editorial fashion shots of the latest internet model wearing a jean skirt in your nearest alley. I am a law maker and a law breaker. I loathe the cliche: old barns, cars, and picket fences, back-yard flowers, sunsets and sunrises, arbitrary homeless people. I care about the making and the made. Like Cummings, I am fond of that precision which creates movement. I care about people when they are at most themselves. I care about narratives and slices of time; about binding them to acid-free matte and museum glass. I care about beautiful people in Valentino dresses and Canali suits. Naked people are beautiful. Gibran wrote that modesty is a shield against the eyes of the unclean.

_Biography/Status_
22 years old. Self-taught. Member of PPA's worthless Student Photographic Society.

_Equipment/Workflow_
I shoot any and all film in 35mm, 645, 6x9, and 4x5. I've shot a little digital MF. I do not own a dSLR. I shoot in the studio with Broncolor strobes and on location with Sunpak gun flashes. I've taught digital editing at my university. I can post-process with the best.

_What I Can Help With_
Shooting technique and theory. Darkroom developing and printing. Digital post-processing and printing. Lighting. Sweeping women off their feet. Cooking. Wine.

_What I Can't Help With_
Technical details of your dSLR. Multiple personalities. Terminal illnesses. 

_Student I'm Looking For_
Anyone who cares about their art and their craft. Someone who aims for perfection. Someone who cares more about the print than the image on the screen. I have no preference for digital versus film shooters.


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## Overread

kellylindseyphotography said:


> I'd like to do both, if possible. If anyone *wants* me for a mentor (thinks I'm qualified), I'd be happy to!
> 
> I'd LOVE to have a mentor.


 
teachers teaching the teachers  - well nothing wrong in that!
If you want in just hand me a bio


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## christopher walrath

A lot more than I put into my bio, Alpha.  But that is definitely going to allow a student to make an informed decision as to whether they would want to ask you for mentoring.  I like the direction this is taking.


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## Village Idiot

Oh what the hell. If there's any hot girls in the DC/Baltimore region that wouldn't mind having me make them cry with my mean spirited humor and harsh criticism, I'd be willing to check you out, in the mentoring type of way.


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## jack lumber

I think this is a brilly idea, and my hats off to all those willing to menter.
 Lets not complicate the issue with all the "what ifs", lets just do it and work the kinks out as we go along. One member on here has taken me under his wing, and I have learned loads. I am very much a tactile learner, so if anyone in the Calgary area would be willing to help me along I would be delighted to hear from them. (lunch,s on me)


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## christopher walrath

Now that's the spirit.


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## kellylindseyphotography

I have had someone contact me to be their mentor, yay!!

Now , if someone would volunteer to be mine... 
What I'm looking for:
someone specialized in portraiture
perfectionist
detail oriented

Would appreciate it!


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## Jedo_03

christopher walrath said:


> *EDIT: I would like to implore anyone reading this thread that might be willing to impart some wisdom on an up and learning photographer to please take part in this soon-to-be program. As mentioned above, the more mentors we have, the wider base of knowledge demands we can meet and the better this program will be. There has already been an overwhelming interest shown by prospective students and we will need all of the mentors we can get.*


 
I have no problem with mentoring...
I do it almost daily in a professional capacity in the health industry, giving clinical advice and leadership and support... etc... And I am QUALIFIED to do this - a SENIOR CLINICIAN with _mumble-mumble_ years of clinical experience in my profession... Furthermore, my interaction with mentees has far-reaching consequences for both the mentee AND (in my case) the patients... 
The notion that ANYONE can be a mentor is not only mistaken - but also seriously misguided. Have you thought of the consequences...???
In this thread I see people putting themselves forward (and urgings for people to put themselves forward - as above) as mentors - without regard to either their QUALIFICATIONS, EXPERIENCE, or their own ACHIEVEMENTS in photography...
I see people submitting themselves as a prospective MENTOR with serious flaws in their own photographic techniques...
IMHO - MENTORS need to be experts in their field before they are capable of advising others...
NOT - who WANTS to be a mentor..?
BUT - who is CAPABLE of being a mentor..?
see here: http://www.apesma.asn.au/mentorsonline/participate/mentor_tutorial.asp
caveat: continue at your peril...
Jedo


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## Helen B

I agree with Jedo. It's easy for experienced people to hold the compass and detect inexperience, but may be not so easy for a beginner. I'm not sure that it is any of my business, however.

If the person who wants a mentor is willing to put some effort into finding a good, appropriate one, they are most likely to be rewarded with success even in the absence of a mentoring program.

Best,
Helen


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## JerryPH

I think one of the most important things to do early in the relationship is clearly define expectations, goals and a rough time-line.  This should be clear to both sides.

Someone may choose to mentor a person for a short period of time or attain specific goals and then move on to help someone else.

Likely these points (besides the point of a person searching for a mentor to choose someone that will guide them in things that THEY are looking for) are the most important of all.


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## Overread

2 things
1) I will put up the offical thread for mentors today - seeing as how people want to get started

2) that is a good link Jedo and I would encourage people to follow and read its contents. As for the proof of the pudding as it were - were this is an online web community and as such very hard to prove anything about people. This is why I placed the following 2 things in my requirements:
a) samples of work
b) what you can offer to a student and what you can't offer. Some people are great at taking shots and others great at editing.

As for opinions here is my stance (this will also be mentioned on the "official" thread.
If anyone has a problem with another person being a prospective mentor to other photographers then I ask them to do the following

a) Not to contact the prospective mentor in question

b) To send me a pm outlining the reasons why the person should not be allowed to be a mentor (with examples)
Any pms sent to me with comments like "I don't like this person" "I don't like their work" or any other such comments I will simply ignor.  I won't let this turn into an elitist or bashing match

After that its a review of the person in question - though I urge people looking to this to take into account what the mentor states that they are offering to a student. A long complaint about a persons inability to take a shot is not cutting any ice when they offering post processing advice


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## christopher walrath

All things that I would have considered. However I had not placed them into active thought and I appreciate the preceding comments greatly. Jedo, great link, I will go over it and plan out how I will take this role on in a case by case basis. I appreciate it.

I agree that the mentor must truly take seriously what they are about to embark on because, not only can they do great benefit by leading a photographer further along the road of technical proficience and creativity, but the wrong word can also lead to self doubt and inactivity. This is not to engender double guessing every stroke of the keyboard or lash of the tongue, but it should put us all in a proper frame of mind.

Thank you and I hope that I can do someone here good.


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## christopher walrath

Where will the official mentoring thread be placed?


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## Overread

Beyond the Basics is the section I am currently thinking of using


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## GeorgiaOwl

As someone in need of mentoring, let me say a big thank you for even attempting to get something like this rolling. 

I don't think I have ever been involved in a hobby/sport/activity where the members of said groups were so.....................

well...


*negative*.
Pardon the photography pun. 


Perhaps photography people are just a more concise slice of a specific group of people....and the negative vibe just shows more here than most places. Perhaps we are just saturated with more realists? I'm generally considered a negative person among my friends and family because I am more of a realist than most of them - but wow. . . they don't know some of you guys!  LOL 

Anyway, thanks for starting this up....maybe some of us noobs can learn enough in a few years to come back and continue in the experiment as mentors! Your effort and willingness to help others is very generous and surely not going unnoticed.


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## rubbertree

What happens if one declares themselves a mentor but in reality, they are not qualified? I mean, who decides who it good enough to be a mentor?


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## Overread

Overread said:


> 2 things
> 1) I will put up the offical thread for mentors today - seeing as how people want to get started
> 
> 2) that is a good link Jedo and I would encourage people to follow and read its contents. As for the proof of the pudding as it were - were this is an online web community and as such very hard to prove anything about people. This is why I placed the following 2 things in my requirements:
> a) samples of work
> b) what you can offer to a student and what you can't offer. Some people are great at taking shots and others great at editing.
> 
> As for opinions here is my stance (this will also be mentioned on the "official" thread.
> If anyone has a problem with another person being a prospective mentor to other photographers then I ask them to do the following
> 
> a) Not to contact the prospective mentor in question
> 
> b) To send me a pm outlining the reasons why the person should not be allowed to be a mentor (with examples)
> Any pms sent to me with comments like "I don't like this person" "I don't like their work" or any other such comments I will simply ignor. I won't let this turn into an elitist or bashing match
> 
> After that its a review of the person in question - though I urge people looking to this to take into account what the mentor states that they are offering to a student. A long complaint about a persons inability to take a shot is not cutting any ice when they offering post processing advice


 
In short is someone gets brought up to not being up to standard you contact me - I then go about working it out -- contacting other good photographers on the site for opinions and such.


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## rubbertree

How do we know that YOU are qualified to say who is mentor material and who isn't? Just asking.
Are you a moderator here? Do you work professionally in the industry? Do you have X number of years experience behind you?


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## Overread

hence why I am contacting other members for their advise - and why this is a user/viewer response based system rather than a vetting system by me


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## christopher walrath

Just so everyone knows, we are not setting ourselves up to be the reincarnation of Minor White or anything. This is for use by those who think they can help by those who think they might benefit from it. Yes, as a group we are treading thinner ice. But I don't think it so thin that we are in any peril. If you think you can help, then by all means contact Overread and put your info out there and do it in your own way. Just like photography, there is no set way to teach or to determine remotely whether or not someone is qualified. So let's just do this thing and see what happens.


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## Alpha

There is always going to be an implicit "accept this mentor at your own risk" clause. 

I, for example, have little professional experience shooting. Some small-time gigs and the like. Does a full-time professional therefore stand to learn nothing from me? I don't know. That's their call. But I can tell you there are plenty of full-time pros that I, as a non-pro, probably don't stand to learn much from. 

Jed, this is not medicine. In fact, in some respects it's even more delicate. If I advise someone incorrectly and they go ruin a wedding shoot, then there are somewhat grave consequences. There's no safety net here, as mentors cannot physically be present to guide. As such, the weight falls much more heavily on how much a student trusts the advice of their mentor. How many first-year surgical residents would try to do a central line without an attending within earshot to cover them if they puncture the lung? On the other hand, in the vast majority of situations, the consequences of error are far more benign here than in medicine. Accidentally placing a print in stop for 10 minutes instead of 1 minute has hardly the same consequences as accidentally administering 100ml of epi when you should have administered 10.


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## Overread

Well it is up now
http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1258497#post1258497
Mentor away - and please don't forget to tell me when you have enough students mentors


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## Alpha

So...let's talk about how cool the new mentoring system is.


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## spiffybeth

i dig it!!! :thumbup:

:mrgreen:


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## christopher walrath

Could we get the mods to move this thread to the Beyond the Basics forum and keep it wiht the new mentoring thread?  That would be cool.


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## astrostu

I can mentor _specifically_ for astrophotography, but not other stuff.  Dunno if that'll fit in your schema.


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## Jedo_03

Thanks to all who did the work...
Congratulations on the roll-out...
And good luck to all Mentors and Mentees...

Jedo


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## christopher walrath

Hey, Jedo.  Thank you for all your sage advice.  I checked out the mentor link and saved it on my laptop as a Word doc for easy referrence.


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## Overread

*pokes the mentors*
I know some of you have students already - any chance of forwarding me the names please?


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## Alpha

What fo?


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## dylj

Alpha said:


> What fo?


 
You get a tax break for each one


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## Overread

dylj said:


> You get a tax break for each one


 
That and it means I know how well this project is going - as well for sorting out any possible problems that might appear by knowing who is working with who and such




oh and for the Tax Break I will be needing your bank details as well - pm them to me


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## Overread

Alpha has just put up a thread commenting on Adobe Connect now - something that mentors and students might want to take advantage of for help with editing
http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=125685


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## Overread

Update:
Overall this is going well I feel - several mentors already have a small following of students.
However some still are without any students - so newer photographers there are places still available for you to get mentors - all those currently in the list in the mentor sticky still have space for more students so please don't be shy about asking


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## TheRival

Overread said:


> Update:
> Overall this is going well I feel - several mentors already have a small following of students.
> However some still are without any students - so newer photographers there are places still available for you to get mentors - all those currently in the list in the mentor sticky still have space for more students so please don't be shy about asking



I do not have the ability to send out pm's, most likely because i am such a greenie (Newbie) but i would love to be one of *Mav's *students! i do not know how to get in touch with him, can someone help me out?

Thanks TPF!


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## JC1220

I'm in to help, please feel free to contact me, my info has been added to the Mentor sticky.
JC


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## Overread

TheRival said:


> I do not have the ability to send out pm's, most likely because i am such a greenie (Newbie) but i would love to be one of *Mav's *students! i do not know how to get in touch with him, can someone help me out?
> 
> Thanks TPF!


 
To get pms you have to have been a member for at least 10 days and posted 25 posts - its to stop spammers advertise (or spread nasty things) through pms.
Also Mav is now off the list as he has his full quota of students - this happened a few days ago, but I only just got round to removing him from the list. The rest of the mentors though are still available for students


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## christopher walrath

If you don't mind me asking, what are you looking to learn?  What are your needs there, TR?


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## TheRival

christopher walrath said:


> If you don't mind me asking, what are you looking to learn?  What are your needs there, TR?



Sorry Christopher, have been disconnected from the inner world of the "internetzzz" for a few days (work  ) 

My "needs" are great and plentiful... i am a beginner in all senses of the word. so with that i need help with:

Composition
Lighting
Depth of Field
Panoramic
Post Processing
Framing
Macro

Basically, I strive to be a better photographer. I am an engineer and have a very symmetrical eye that i am trying to break away from. adversely i am a very dry humored person and i like to reflect my personality and humor in my pictures, but i am struggling to bring a "story" to my images. 

So...i guess those are my needs! i am looking for help wherever it may come from!

my equipment:
Nikon D40
18mm-55mm Kit Lens
55mm-200mm Nikkor Lens
Circular polarizer
UV filter
Tripod

I am by no means trying to become a professional nor am i looking for someone to hold my hand but i am looking for constructive criticism!

Thanks for the time guys! i will leave this open to whomever wants to adopt a new student!


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## Mav

Rival - feel free to check into my public mentoring thread linked in my sig.  Been pretty quiet for me lately.  I think most of my students are folks like me that have kids and are probably busy like I've been doing stuff for the summer.  Let me give it another week and if there's not much chatter I'd be happy to offically take you on as another student.


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## TheRival

Mav said:


> Rival - feel free to check into my public mentoring thread linked in my sig.  Been pretty quiet for me lately.  I think most of my students are folks like me that have kids and are probably busy like I've been doing stuff for the summer.  Let me give it another week and if there's not much chatter I'd be happy to offically take you on as another student.



Absolutely Wonderful!

i will be clicking your mentor link after i finish this thread and look forward to hearing from you about a possible opening!


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## Overread

Just to add that a new mentor has joined the ranks!


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## LuckyStarPhotography

Is this program still going and if so, is it accepting new students?


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## Overread

Yes still running 
any mentor on the list is up for students - so there are still loads of spaces out there!


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## Alex_B

good to see this is up and running!


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## LuckyStarPhotography

Overread said:


> Yes still running
> any mentor on the list is up for students - so there are still loads of spaces out there!


 
Hmmm? Now where to find that pesky list.:???: (nevermind)


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## LuckyStarPhotography

Short list.:raisedbrow:


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## Overread

fussy one 
there were a few more on the list at the start (not too many more) but they reached thier limit on students and so I took down their profiles so as thier pm box would not fill up


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## LuckyStarPhotography

Not so fussy; just none of the profiles match up with my type of photography. Several of them are primarily film photographers and I work mostly with DSLR. I'll keep checking the list.  Although it might be fun to focus on some black & white film photography for awhile. That's my secret pleasure.


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## redtippmann

I was wondering if i could be mentored by *Village Idiot * but i have no email to contact him by.


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## Overread

In the mentors thread click on the link below Village Idiot's name - then go to the contact tab and send a message to him via private message (pm)


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## tirediron

LuckyStarPhotography said:


> Not so fussy; just none of the profiles match up with my type of photography. Several of them are primarily film photographers and I work mostly with DSLR. I'll keep checking the list.  Although it might be fun to focus on some black & white film photography for awhile. That's my secret pleasure.


 
What is your type of photography?


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## sarallyn

THIS IS REALLY COOL. 

once I ditch my (only) broken lens and get my new ones in a few weeks, I would LOVE to get a mentor if there are any.


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## Overread

any of the mentors with profiles listed are still up for grabs


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## redtippmann

Overread said:


> In the mentors thread click on the link below Village Idiot's name - then go to the contact tab and send a message to him via private message (pm)


i dont think i can pm yet.


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## Overread

ahh in that case I think you have to wait 7-10days before pms are activated - its there to prevent pm spambots and others from abusing the system


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## El2

Is the mentoring program still active? I am interested in having a mentor.


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## Alpha

Pretty sure. At least I am.


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## El2

Will someone be assigned or volunteer to mentor me or do I PM the selected mentor? Not sure how it works.

Thanks!


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## Overread

you have to pm the mentor - though this site has a limit before you can send pms - a few days membership (7-10) and a post count of 15 before your pm feature is enabled.


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## El2

Thank you for the information. I am mainly lurking the other sections. I will try to contribute and post more.


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## davebmck

Overread, has anyone volunteered to mentor macro photography?  I've seen some excellent macro photographers here and would love to learn from one of them.  I've been working with my macro lens for a few months and it's a lot harder than it looks to get those really sharp close ups.


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## Overread

I know how you feel dave - so far only the mentors on the list are up for grabs - though in all honesty you could try pming some of the macro shooters - there might be some willing to give some advice


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## Jedo_03

Alpha said:


> Pretty sure. At least I am.



*^*
* ^* *^*
*^* *^ * *^*
*^*
*^*
*^*
Yeah - and *I *would have been 'vailable too... 'cept *HE* sacked me...

(Sumpun t'do with ROT...)

Jedo


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## Overread

Jedo_03 said:


> *^*
> *^* *^*
> *^* *^ **^*
> *^*
> *^*
> *^*
> Yeah - and *I *would have been 'vailable too... 'cept *HE* sacked me...
> 
> (Sumpun t'do with ROT...)
> 
> Jedo


 

?


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## bennielou

I'm up for grabs if someone is wanting to learn a bit more about wedding photography.  Please check my site to see if my way of doing things is on track with your style.  Looking forward to working with you.


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## Ernicus

This program still in effect or did it kinda fall by the waste-side?


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## Overread

Still in effect and still running - though I have got to clean up the mentor list sometime soon (basically a few have drifted from the site a bit). 

Always willing for new mentors to join or members to seek out mentors.


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## 480sparky

I'm just curious.... do the mods have anything to do with it, other than posting mentors? 

In other words, do the mods know how often the program is used and how successful it is?


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## IByte

Maybe have an incentive for the mentors, limit the number of "students" like a 3 to 1 ratio so it will not be overwhelming for the mentors.  Maybe have small, manageable projects for the students.  Finally take the students through one portion of the photography.  For example, have them work on portraiture one week, then maybe macro the next if applicable.  The students, will have to really do their fair share if the student wants to continue being mentored.  I for one would like to be mentored.  Great idea guys and good luck.


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## 480sparky

Next question:

Where, exactly, IS the program?  I've looked and can't find it!



Maybe I'm getting old.


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## sm4him

480sparky said:


> Next question:
> 
> Where, exactly, IS the program?  I've looked and can't find it!
> 
> Maybe I'm getting old.



Only place I know of is that link in Overread's sig.

I think the mentor program is a great idea, in theory, but it seems to be pretty outdated and unused. I'd love something like that if it actually works well, though. 
Personally, I've kinda already got an "unofficial" mentor--they just don't necessarily KNOW it.


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## Overread

480sparky said:


> I'm just curious.... do the mods have anything to do with it, other than posting mentors?
> 
> In other words, do the mods know how often the program is used and how successful it is?



Mods weren't even involved initially - just me (mods are now only by the byproduct of me being a mod). It was always a user run thing on the site. In theory I should know, but I don't oft get many detail updates. I know that quite a few of the mentors have had students and often this has been a mentor-student relationship that has worked more offsite than on site (ie they communicate in private). 

Generally those mentors offering more common teaching and more open options have had more students, whilst those offering more specialist training have tended to get a few asking for info with less long term students. 


As a point the scheme has never operated any requirements for students or mentors - just a description of what the mentor is offering for the Bio thread - its very much a case of just linking together those willing to learn with those willing to teach. 


That said I've re-sticked the bio list for the mentors (they were sticky before but I think lost it in a site update and never regained it). I've also put a notice into this thread with a link in the first post to the bio thread.


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## ChrisB1966

I am fairly new to photography and I am in the Dallas/Ft Worth area if there is anyone in my area thats available to do any mentoring.


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## Bitter Jeweler

IByte said:


> Maybe have an incentive for the mentors, limit the number of "students" like a 3 to 1 ratio so it will not be overwhelming for the mentors.  Maybe have small, manageable projects for the students.  Finally take the students through one portion of the photography.  For example, have them work on portraiture one week, then maybe macro the next if applicable.  The students, will have to really do their fair share if the student wants to continue being mentored.  I for one would like to be mentored.  Great idea guys and good luck.



I tried that. 
Bitter Jeweler's Evil School of Photography 

It was hard.
Fun!

But time consuming.


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## mishele

I'm waiting for Evil School part 2!!


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## Bitter Jeweler

I wish I had time for it.


The hardest part was coming up with the "course work" for the next project, while still trying to deal with the previous.
I'd like to do it again, but learned I would have to have everything ready before school starts.

The next thing was dealing with varying knowledge levels. Like the schools of old, with 5 grades in one classroom.

Oh, and my school was towards the creative aspects. 
Dominantly had a school for the tech aspects. Fun times!

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/groups/intro-your-dominant-abc-s.html


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## tirediron

sm4him said:


> ...I think the mentor program is a great idea, in theory, but it seems to be pretty outdated and unused. I'd love something like that if it actually works well, though.
> Personally, I've kinda already got an "unofficial" mentor--they just don't necessarily KNOW it.


The Mentoring program does seem to have fallen into disuse, but it does work.  I can't speak for the other mentors, but I have at least one "Graduate" who is now making a good portion of their income from his/her photography....


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## Overread

I'll just say that the mentoring was never intended to be toward any specific goal other than progressing in photography. You don't have to be looking to go pro to join in  Hobbyists are more than welcome


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## tirediron

Overread said:


> I'll just say that the mentoring was never intended to be toward any specific goal other than progressing in photography. You don't have to be looking to go pro to join in  Hobbyists are more than welcome


Absolutely; just pointing out that it can work to great success (and tooting my own horn!  ).


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## Ernicus

Glad I sparked some convo in here.  

Honestly, this site in itself is a great mentor, simply reading and posting, you can learn who is here to help and give great info.

Having 1 on 1 tuteledge is an awesome thing as well, which is what led me to dig this out.  I am very interested, there are a few people on here I would love some 1 on 1 attention from, but their names aren't on the list.  lol.  I almost sent you a message TI, but being the thread was old and you being a mod...I just assumed you were far too busy.

I do know how time consuming it can be though... especially when doing it out of the kindness of your heart vs. getting paid.  When I was a personal trainer..only 25% of my business income was online training vs. in gym training,  and it took up 90% of my time.  That's not counting the free stuff I did online either.  *scratches head*


----------



## IByte

Bitter Jeweler said:
			
		

> I tried that.
> Bitter Jeweler's Evil School of Photography
> 
> It was hard.
> Fun!
> 
> But time consuming.



Lol I think it's worth a second try, but I would definitely "hire" more help.


----------



## mishele

Bitter Jeweler said:


> I wish I had time for it.
> 
> 
> The hardest part was coming up with the "course work" for the next project, while still trying to deal with the previous.
> I'd like to do it again, but learned I would have to have everything ready before school starts.
> 
> The next thing was dealing with varying knowledge levels. Like the schools of old, with 5 grades in one classroom.
> 
> Oh, and my school was towards the creative aspects.
> Dominantly had a school for the tech aspects. Fun times!
> 
> Intro to your Dominant ABC's - Photography Forum & Digital Photography Forum



Oh, I remember it well!! I almost signed up for it, but I didn't know if I could keep up. =)
I watched it every week wishing I would of joined in on the fun.


----------



## Ernicus

...just to add....I don't believe I am the only one...but I would be willing to bet...for any of you pro's...there are some of us that would be willing to pay a fee for such a thing.  Not a huge sum obviously, but it's something to think about.  Could always offer it as a donation to the sites funds if you don't want to actually take money yourself.

For people I was training on my site, I created a separate forum for "Online training" and they posted their stuff in there, it was only visible to the member paying for it.  I had donation links via paypal on my main page to have them pay for it that way...I just used it towards site fees.  It wasn't much, the amount of money wasn't the point.  However, most people will take something more seriously if they are paying for it, people tend to toss aside free things...even advice from a pro.  ;-)


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## tirediron

Speaking from the mentor side, while it's nice that you feel that way, I certainly wouldn't (and nor I suspect would most of the others) want payment.  Done as a 'one photographer helping another' there's much less pressure, and it's far more casual.  The minute money enters the equation, then there can be expectations, increased pressure, etc.  Let's say I come down with the flu the same day you send me your assignment shots.  If you've paid me, I'm pretty much bound to drag my ass to the computer, whereas if it's casual, I PM you saying I'm sick and I'll get back to you...


----------



## D2Image

I am in Arlington TX and would love to be mentored! 

I shoot with a D7000 and I shoot mostly Boudoir! Although I do love shooting kids portraits!

I have 2 yrs experience but want to get better so I'm def wanting a mentor!


----------



## cdryden

So is this program officially dead? If not I have some interest in it.


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## snowbear

cdryden said:


> So is this program officially dead? If not I have some interest in it.


Most of the listed mentors are still active.  If you see one that interests you, you can view their profile and see when they were last on the site.  If it's been within a few weeks, you should be OK.


----------

