# Ok, you've talked me into developing my own b&w film....



## ulrichsd (Sep 8, 2012)

I'm thinking I'll get this film tank and a changing bag.  Now I'll need some developer and fixer, any recommendations on what chemicals to get that is easy and forgiving for a beginner?  Right now I've been shooting Fuji Neopan 400 120 film, but would also like to try some TMAX400.

Thanks!
Scott


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## KenC (Sep 8, 2012)

TMax developer is best for the TMax films.  The only other bw films I've developed were other Kodak films, and for those I preferred Kodak HC110.  No idea how well it works on Neopan.


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## 3bayjunkie (Sep 8, 2012)

Get ilford delta developer, fixer, stop bath and kodak fotoflo.

I have it and works great. There are diff developers for diff speed film. Look on the ilford website.


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## gsgary (Sep 8, 2012)

Rodinal works great with most films


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## Compaq (Sep 8, 2012)

I used Rodinal with a Tri-X 400, and it changed colour (very dark purplish???). Is it still usable?


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## Rick58 (Sep 8, 2012)

Save your money on the changing bag. Use it to buy a towel for under the closet door.


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## PhotoWrangler (Sep 8, 2012)

And if I may say so... learn to use chemicals other than Kodak stuff. They recently announced they will be selling their film division, so there's no sense in getting used to a set of chemicals and film when there's no guarantee it'll be around in a year or two. I find myself having to make a move over to Ilford stuff and learning those products after having trained myself on TriX and XTOL.


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## bhop (Sep 8, 2012)

I like Clayton F76 developer and Arista for the rest.. all available at Freestylephoto.biz  

As you can see, you'll get a lot of different answers as b&w chemicals is sort of a personal choice.  Best to try a couple and see which you like best.  As for the changing bag comment, I still prefer using one for convenience.  A towel under a door works fine, but I don't like to take chances since even a tiny bit of light can affect the undeveloped negatives, plus in my case, my doors let a little light in even with towels.. so the choice for me is either changing bag, or wait till night.


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## timor (Sep 8, 2012)

ChristopherCoy said:


> And if I may say so... learn to use chemicals other than Kodak stuff. They recently announced they will be selling their film division, so there's no sense in getting used to a set of chemicals and film when there's no guarantee it'll be around in a year or two. I find myself having to make a move over to Ilford stuff and learning those products after having trained myself on TriX and XTOL.


Don't worry about disappearance of Kodak chemicals. Kodak is not making them for years now. Champion took it over. Film division has nothing to do with chemistry production. For me the most important producer of photographic chemicals is Photographer's Formulary Inc. Small, privately own company from Montana, check them out, guys.
In real life it's no matter, what developer for film one is using. Whatever is today commercially available, is a final product of 150 years of development. Anything one can buy in the store could be adapted to any style of shooting and any film with good results. Factory's information is only a starting point, but no one said that's the only way. Actually very little is needed to develop a film, more important is the control over the process and to have control testing is always a necessity.
Scott, I would say for beginner something simple would be good. Why don't you get a bottle of HC110 and a 10 ccm syringe. Don't mix any B,C,D or other solutions, but mix directly from concentrate working solution, I would suggest 1+49 ratio and start with 11 min. in 20C. Your concentrate will keep for very long time and one bottle will last for about 45 rolls of 120 film.
Fixer doesn't matter, whatever you get.


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## ulrichsd (Sep 8, 2012)

Wow, thanks for all the information, its good to see there is still a thriving group of film developers on TPF.

After looking around I was thinking about getting some Kodak HC-110 developer, seems like a nice place to start and then experimenting with something different after that runs out...

Do I really need stop bath solution, or can I just use distilled water?  Also, do you need a different developer for a different speed, or just a different dilution?

Thanks!
Scott


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## timor (Sep 8, 2012)

bhop said:


> I like Clayton F76 developer and Arista for the rest.. all available at Freestylephoto.biz


Eh, lucky you, you live next door to Freestyle store.


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## PhotoWrangler (Sep 8, 2012)

ulrichsd said:


> Wow, thanks for all the information, its good to see there is still a thriving group of film developers on TPF.





It seems to be growing exponentially on a daily basis....


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## timor (Sep 8, 2012)

ulrichsd said:


> Wow, thanks for all the information, its good to see there is still a thriving group of film developers on TPF.
> 
> After looking around I was thinking about getting some Kodak HC-110 developer, seems like a nice place to start and then experimenting with something different after that runs out...
> 
> ...


For stop bath use just three quick changes of regular tap water, just of the same temperature as the other chemicals. I am also using two step fixing, first bath for 2 min. 30 sec rinse and the second bath for next 3-6 min. (Tmax film needs longer fixing). It has adventages of better  and quicker final rinse.


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## Rick58 (Sep 8, 2012)

As Timor says, I know you can bypass the stop bath, but I've always used it


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## PhotoWrangler (Sep 8, 2012)

Rick58 said:


> As Timor says, I know you can bypass the stop bath, but I've always used it




I bought a bottle of Kodak Indicator Stopbath about a year ago. You mix like 2oz to a gallon of water. I still have over 3/4 of the bottle left. Its like Photoflo... it lasts forever.


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## timor (Sep 8, 2012)

I am not using stop bath not because costs money or is not healthy (heck, I still use it for printing) but to avoid drastic pH changes in film emulsion. Negative is everything.


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## djacobox372 (Sep 9, 2012)

U can just use tap water for a stop.

Also I only use distilled water for the final rinse (with a couple mil of photoflo).  The first few rinses are done with tap water.  Heck I even save my final rinse water to use over again a couple times.

As for developer just be sure to use a liquid concentrate, like hc110 or rodinal.  Powders are only a good choice if your developing a ton of film.


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## amolitor (Sep 9, 2012)

timor said:


> I am not using stop bath not because costs money or is not healthy (heck, I still use it for printing) but to avoid drastic pH changes in film emulsion. Negative is everything.



This is fascinating. You're trading accuracy in development times in for less abrupt pH changes? What do you see as the benefit?

I am pretty sure there's no visible effect either way with modern emulsions, so I am curious to hear your thinking.


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## timor (Sep 9, 2012)

amolitor said:


> This is fascinating. You're trading accuracy in development times


No kidding, how accurate are you ? I don't care, 2-3 sec. make no difference. 
Modern emulsions are not made of acid resistant steel, are thinner, more prone to damage. Why take risks ? You don't see any visible effect today (however you may be loosing on sharpness), who knows, maybe you are in for shock in 20 years, when your best negs will start to show cracks. You know, butterfly effect, may happen, may not, but drastic changes in environment are never good.


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## terri (Sep 9, 2012)

timor said:


> bhop said:
> 
> 
> > I like Clayton F76 developer and Arista for the rest.. all available at Freestylephoto.biz
> ...


It's better for me financially that I do not live nearby.    Just getting the occasional catalog is deadly enough, thanks.         There are so many things I want to try.


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## PhotoWrangler (Sep 10, 2012)

Hayyyyy!! That spammer copied my post! ^^




ChristopherCoy said:


> I find myself having to make a move over to Ilford stuff and learning those products after having trained myself on TriX and XTOL.


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## ulrichsd (Sep 13, 2012)

Thanks again everyone for the advice.  Just got the HC110, fixer and Patterson tank in the mail today.  Looking forward to shooting some film and developing it this weekend!


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## scottkim (Sep 13, 2012)

I recently did my very first DIY film processing.

1. The shop I went to get processing stuff just ran out of changing bag, so I used my bed and blanket at night instead.
2. Agfa Rodinal was my choice of developer as it seems the easiest to mix/store.
3. Used tap water for stop both.
4. Made my own photoflo solution with dishwashing liquid I have at home. Worked pretty good I think.

Also, check FilmDev | Everyone's recipes website for other's recipes.

Cheers


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## ulrichsd (Sep 15, 2012)

scottkim said:


> Also, check FilmDev | Everyone's recipes website for other's recipes.
> Cheers



Thanks for the link!!

Ok, developed my first roll.  Good news: there are pictures on there.  Bad news: this is the first roll I've developed.

I was a little disapointed when I ran my first scan, all of the pictures looked well overexposed and washed out.  Then I adjusted my scanner settings (a cheap Lexmark X5270) and pushed it to all the way light (I don't think this was made to scan negatives) and the scans turned out better.  Maybe I pushed the processing inadvertantly?  But I'm not to familiar with shooting black and white either, so I'm not totally sure what to expect either.  

If anyone has any tips on my recipe, my scanning, or my technique (I definitely need to be more careful when handling the film and cleaning the scanner, I'm getting a little dust) it would be appreciated!

Thanks,
Scott

Here's my recipe (Fuji Neopan 100)
Room temp 73C (probably need to get a thermometer to measure the water temp)
1. 3:45 in HC-110 solution B (31:1)
2. 0:30 water (stop bath)
3. 2:00 in Ilford Rapid Developer (4:1)
4. 10:00 wash continuously with tap water
5. Hang dry


1. No scanner adjustment  about 50% light/dark








2. Scanner adjusted to about 85% towards light







3. Scanner adjusted to 100% toward light







4. Edited with Photoshop Elements to push up contrast


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## timor (Sep 15, 2012)

ulrichsd said:


> Ok, developed my first roll.  Good news: there are pictures on there.  Bad news: this is the first roll I've developed.


Don't worry about your first roll. My first was not total success to. To my eye the film was maybe a tad underexposed and a bit overdeveloped. You have blocked highlights and low overall contrast, true blacks are nowhere to find. HC110 is a solid performer and works well in higher temperatures but on the other hand any strong developer in temps above 22C may have tendency to fog (73 F = 22,8 C). Short dev times may also cause uneven development, so anything you do, should be rather 5 min. or longer. Lower temp. is also better with the grain (smaller). I would suggest to make ready to use developer directly from the concentrate, 1+49 (6ml +294ml of water) and 10 min in 20C (68F) or 8.5 min in 73F. If your negs will be too strong or too light maybe it will be time to calibrate your camera.
Water stop bath: should be same temp like developer, 30 sec is fine, but change the water at least 2 times. Idea of this stop bath is to lower down the pH and stop activity of reducer and also to remove some of that reducer from the emulsion. 
Fixing: 2 min is rather too short, at least 4 with fresh (1+4 in case of Ilford Rapid) fixer. Temp same like developer and stop bath.
10 min. of rinse in continuous flow in 73F for Neopan 100 should be enough, I usually go with 15 min to be on the safe side, but then I use always 68F for everything. Maybe the last min of rinse should be a distilled water bath with a tiny bit of some detergent (or photoflow) to facilitate water sheeting.


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## scottkim (Sep 16, 2012)

Also, Digitaltruth Photo - Film Photography, Darkroom Supplies & Resources site is a good place to check the development time.

Digitaltruth Photo - The Massive Dev Chart B&W Film Development Database


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## ulrichsd (Sep 16, 2012)

timor said:


> Don't worry about your first roll. My first was not total success to. To my eye the film was maybe a tad underexposed and a bit overdeveloped. You have blocked highlights and low overall contrast, true blacks are nowhere to find. HC110 is a solid performer and works well in higher temperatures but on the other hand any strong developer in temps above 22C may have tendency to fog (73 F = 22,8 C). Short dev times may also cause uneven development, so anything you do, should be rather 5 min. or longer. Lower temp. is also better with the grain (smaller).



Thanks for all the tips, I can store everything in the basement, which stays cooler (below 70F).  I was afraid the film was overexposed since it was coming out so light and washed out.  I'll add a few more photos below if that helps determine how it turned out...



timor said:


> I would suggest to make ready to use developer directly from the concentrate, 1+49 (6ml +294ml of water) and 10 min in 20C (68F) or 8.5 min in 73F. If your negs will be too strong or too light maybe it will be time to calibrate your camera.



I made the developer fresh from concentrate.  Kodak says on their website to use a 31:1 ratio of developer to water for dilution B (16mL to 484mL), which is what I used.  Is that too strong?  Fuji's website lists dev time of 3:45 for 72F for Acros 100.  Does anyone use refrigerated water to get the temperature down?  I don't think its the camera as I've gotten film developed professionally and not had a problem, but is an old camera.



timor said:


> Water stop bath: should be same temp like developer, 30 sec is fine, but change the water at least 2 times. Idea of this stop bath is to lower down the pH and stop activity of reducer and also to remove some of that reducer from the emulsion.



Good to note, I poured in 500mL water, but I could probably just run it under the tap and keep it flowing.



timor said:


> Fixing: 2 min is rather too short, at least 4 with fresh (1+4 in case of Ilford Rapid) fixer. Temp same like developer and stop bath.
> 10 min. of rinse in continuous flow in 73F for Neopan 100 should be enough, I usually go with 15 min to be on the safe side, but then I use always 68F for everything. Maybe the last min of rinse should be a distilled water bath with a tiny bit of some detergent (or photoflow) to facilitate water sheeting.



I was confused on this because Kodak's website they listed 2-4 minutes for fixer, but the Ilford bottle said 30 seconds for one type of paper and 1 minute for another.  So I set it at the lower end of Kodak's range.  I will change to 4 minutes.  

Also, the developer will last forever at 31:1, but at 4:1 using 500mL of fixer that will go much quicker.  Can you reuse fixer or is it one time use?

When can I expose the film to light?  Once I add the water for the stop bath?  Then it is ok?

Thanks again Timor and Scottkim,
Scott

5. Out of the scanner at 100% light setting on the negative (inverted int PS Elements)







6. After I increase the contrast in PS Elements


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## timor (Sep 16, 2012)

Hi. I don't know much about scanning, I am film and darkroom only specimen.  Well, the negative seems to be flat. Tape neg to the window glass and take a picture with your digital against the light and post it here.
HC110 1:31 is the standard championed by Kodak and it is OK. I just prefer a bit longer dev times for easier contrast control, smaller grain and better acutation. 
Fixer is of multiple use, in 500ml of working solution you can fix at least 12-15 rolls of film, just extend the time by 1 min after each 3.
Expose film to light after fixing is done.
Do a test with the camera. I see that you have N75, it's light meter is good. Run some film in it, develop and compare with film from Yashica. But it has to be same film.


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## ulrichsd (Sep 17, 2012)

timor said:


> Hi. I don't know much about scanning, I am film and darkroom only specimen.  Well, the negative seems to be flat. Tape neg to the window glass and take a picture with your digital against the light and post it here.



Thanks Timor for your help!  Its dark outside so putting it up to window won't work, but here's a picture of one of the negatives held up to a white screen on the computer monitor and held up to the ceiling.









Also, I'm hesitant to think it is the camera, as I've gotten stuff developed from Dwayne's Photo and it turns out ok.  Here's some Ektar 100 I just got back also shot on the Yashica-Mat (sorry for only posting baby photos, but she's my full-time model right now  )


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## timor (Sep 17, 2012)

Hey, negative doesn't look too bad, Yashica looks fine judging from the last photo (babies are fine models), scanning is now the suspect.  If with 100% settings outcome is flat from normal negs, then maybe the scanner is not working at 100%.


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## ulrichsd (Sep 17, 2012)

timor said:


> Hey, negative doesn't look too bad, Yashica looks fine judging from the last photo (babies are fine models), scanning is now the suspect.  If with 100% settings outcome is flat from normal negs, then maybe the scanner is not working at 100%.



Thanks again for all your help!  I think you are correct, its an old all-in-one scanner and I just think that the software for the scanner is not too good.  I might try to scan the Ektar negatives and see how they come out.  Maybe I can play with the settings and get something decent, but I don't think I'm going to get anything out of the scanner that wont need some PS tweaking.  Or maybe save up and get a better scanner...


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## timor (Sep 18, 2012)

Maybe a new scanner will be not bad idea, old electronics will not get any better. Good luck.


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