# The Light Farm. Our future with film ?



## timor (Feb 5, 2014)

Something for hard core film photographers:
The Light Farm


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## gsgary (Feb 5, 2014)

That will be me

Sent from my GT-I9100P using Tapatalk 2


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## limr (Feb 5, 2014)

I've often thought that I just don't know what I would do if all manufacturers just stopped making film. I don't think that will happen in my lifetime, but I've been wrong about stuff before.

There is part of me that really really REALLY wants to make my own film, but there's the rest of me that still wants it but knows that it won't happen any time soon. But yeah, I totally see this being me as well.


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## webestang64 (Feb 5, 2014)

Film will be around a long time to come. Just like LP's.


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## timor (Feb 5, 2014)

webestang64 said:


> Film will be around a long time to come. Just like LP's.


No doubt about it, paper maybe not. Hand made own paper sounds very interesting.


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## webestang64 (Feb 5, 2014)

timor said:


> webestang64 said:
> 
> 
> > Film will be around a long time to come. Just like LP's.
> ...



Yeah.....paper might go away. But again, from taking with my sales reps at the store, silver paper is still holding on to a fairly good market.


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## Gavjenks (Feb 20, 2014)

They aren't going to stop making film in our lifetimes. However they might stop making *professional quality *film. Instead the options largely just being people like lomography and their crap film for hobbyists who want flaws.
And my estimate for when that shift might happen would be whenever they start making really affordable large format digital sensors.

When they do, there exists no real point to film anymore for a working professional, except perhaps people who want to just say they did it on film.  But that's not a huge market... Everyone who only shoots film for PRACTICAL reasons only, like affordable technical like view camera movements for instance, would just use digital backs in the exact same view cameras, etc. and stop demanding film.

And at that point you might actually need to make your own if you want certain qualities.  Of course, it's also just interesting and fun sounding in the meantime anyway.


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## gsgary (Feb 21, 2014)

Gavjenks said:


> They aren't going to stop making film in our lifetimes. However they might stop making professional quality film. Instead the options largely just being people like lomography and their crap film for hobbyists who want flaws.
> And my estimate for when that shift might happen would be whenever they start making really affordable large format digital sensors.
> 
> When they do, there exists no real point to film anymore for a working professional, except perhaps people who want to just say they did it on film.  But that's not a huge market... Everyone who only shoots film for PRACTICAL reasons only, like affordable technical like view camera movements for instance, would just use digital backs in the exact same view cameras, etc. and stop demanding film.
> ...



Thats funny because film sales have gone up for the last few year and Ferrania has started up again


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## Overread (Feb 21, 2014)

Film crashed only in so far as the big companies like Kodak were geared up for vast levels of mass production and many were caught with the almost overnight shift from film to digital. This left those companies reeling and we might well see a few of them crash and burn as they try to downsize and fail - others will downsize to the extreme and just scrape through.

Alongside I suspect we'll see a rise in new companies producing film for the smaller scale, but still healthy sized market. We might have to order it online and we might also lose a few film types if large companies hold onto the rights to the formulas but don't produce; but film had a huge effect on photography and I doubt it will go away fully.


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## Gavjenks (Feb 21, 2014)

gsgary said:


> Thats funny because film sales have gone up for the last few year and Ferrania has started up again



Why are you writing this comment in response to my post? They seem unrelated. I was talking about a hypothetical future when large format digital backs become affordable (and to a lesser extent, when full frame digital costs negligibly more than old SLR film cameras). Considering they still cost as much as a small house right now for LF digital, and that 35mm digital costs $1500+ more than 35mm film to get into, none of the predictions apply yet.


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## gsgary (Feb 24, 2014)

Gavjenks said:


> Why are you writing this comment in response to my post? They seem unrelated. I was talking about a hypothetical future when large format digital backs become affordable (and to a lesser extent, when full frame digital costs negligibly more than old SLR film cameras). Considering they still cost as much as a small house right now for LF digital, and that 35mm digital costs $1500+ more than 35mm film to get into, none of the predictions apply yet.



The price of digital has nothing to do with why people shoot film I have full frame digital but dont use it anymore because i find film more enjoyable


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## timor (Mar 10, 2014)

There is one big problem gentlemen. Our equipment is getting old. Real old. It may carry film photography for another 15-20 years, but without parts and experienced mechanics gone cameras eventually will stop. There is no prospect of newly made film bodies even of only K1000 class. Manual lenses are also a problem. Carl Zeiss is making them, I don't believe they ever went into AF market. Those are superior lenses actually made for digital world, but still some one can order in M42 mount.  I have no idea, what is the future of large format lenses and shutters. Anything there starts from $1000. Not so much for amateurs.


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## Gavjenks (Mar 10, 2014)

> The price of digital has nothing to do with why people shoot film I have full frame digital but dont use it anymore because if find film more enjoyable


I said "when *large format* digital becomes affordable," not full frame. Full frame is already affordable, but is not nearly as large as film gets. Large format is 13x more surface area or more, and a digital camera with a sensor that size still costs about as much as a house.

Companies like Ilford or Kodak's film department have already been under strain and dropping product lines. A huge chunk of people shooting medium and large format do so for actual technical advantages over small format digital due to film size characteristics. And losing thatr huge chunk of their 120 film market, for instance, when digital medium format becomes affordable, and LF later (and all the chemicals etc. that go along with those shooters' dark room techniques) will mean they will fold or at least drop even more product lines.






> Our equipment is getting old. Real old. It may carry film photography for another 15-20 years, but without parts and experienced mechanics gone cameras eventually will stop.


I own a large format field camera that was manufactured brand new about 1 year ago.


> large format lenses and shutters. Anything there starts from $1000


My first large format lens was $50, and worked just fine. The equivalent of a kit lens basically. A nicer one I got later that's the equivalent of high-end-but-not-quite-L-glass was about $250.

However, as suggested in the first half of the post, I think when LF digital is affordable, they will indeed stop making nearly as many new LF bodies and lenses, and the clock will indeed be ticking from that end as well, as you suggest.


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## timor (Mar 10, 2014)

We are not discussing the future of digital. LF sensors were already built. $200 000 per piece. Only 10 MP. 
There is no problem with buying LF equipment, it is there, but what the point of putting in it a sensor the size of a postage stamp.
But I don't think med digi format will be affordable in near future so average Joe can casually buy it. And anyway, why he would want to carry with him such a bulk, when iPhone can fulfill his needs 150% ? MF digi will be the tool of occupational photographers and in that only few. Maybe some artists will utilize MF. But 8x10 ? That will ceased to exist. 
Anyway, I am not so happy with this, however I don't worry. There will be enough film for me 'till my end, , so I will be not dependent on artificial photography.


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## Gavjenks (Mar 10, 2014)

> We are not discussing the future of digital. LF sensors were already built. $200 000 per piece. Only 10 MP.


You can't talk about the future of one without talking about the future of the other.

In the not-so-distant future (cue MST3K theme song) those LF sensors will be completely affordable. Already they are selling ones 10x cheaper than what you just said, and 10x the resolution:
Digital Scanning Backs for Large Format Photography
$22,000, 130+ MP or $10,000 48 MP

These are scanning backs, but within 10 years probably, we will have the data transfer technology to make them instantaneous capture, for just a couple thousand dollars and plenty high enough resolution.

With a crop factor of 1/3, the ISO capabilities of a large format back would allow you to shoot at today's equivalent of *ISO 51,200* without objectionable noise, for example, at a resolution of 30ish MP (probably actually higher ISO than that, but I'm talking relative to full frames capping out at 6400 or so).  Or the same ISO capabilities as now, but 13x the resolution as full frame, your choice which advantage you want, or a mixture of both (probably by software selection)


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## timor (Mar 10, 2014)

Whatever it will be, will not help the film to survive.


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## Mike_E (Mar 10, 2014)

The future will come and the past will remain- whatever became of it.  Carry on until you can't.

In the mean time here's a link found on the site linked to in the first post.

Oh, what a life!  Enjoy.

BTW  Somewhat NSFW:

[video=vimeo;14611268]http://vimeo.com/14611268[/video]


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## timor (Mar 10, 2014)

Mike_E said:


> Carry on until you can't.


 I do.
Thanks for link


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## Mike_E (Mar 10, 2014)

Edit to the above:  sorry, I found that seeking clarity on a point while looking over the site.


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## gsgary (Mar 10, 2014)

Gavjenks said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> > Thats funny because film sales have gone up for the last few year and Ferrania has started up again
> ...



They are not $1500 more than the 35mm film cameras i use


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## gsgary (Mar 10, 2014)

timor said:


> There is one big problem gentlemen. Our equipment is getting old. Real old. It may carry film photography for another 15-20 years, but without parts and experienced mechanics gone cameras eventually will stop. There is no prospect of newly made film bodies even of only K1000 class. Manual lenses are also a problem. Carl Zeiss is making them, I don't believe they ever went into AF market. Those are superior lenses actually made for digital world, but still some one can order in M42 mount.  I have no idea, what is the future of large format lenses and shutters. Anything there starts from $1000. Not so much for amateurs.



Leica still make film cameras and parts


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## timor (Mar 10, 2014)

gsgary said:


> timor said:
> 
> 
> > There is one big problem gentlemen. Our equipment is getting old. Real old. It may carry film photography for another 15-20 years, but without parts and experienced mechanics gone cameras eventually will stop. There is no prospect of newly made film bodies even of only K1000 class. Manual lenses are also a problem. Carl Zeiss is making them, I don't believe they ever went into AF market. Those are superior lenses actually made for digital world, but still some one can order in M42 mount.  I have no idea, what is the future of large format lenses and shutters. Anything there starts from $1000. Not so much for amateurs.
> ...


Correct. But can you imagine film beginner starting from Laica ? Doling out $10000 just to try film ?


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## bhop (Mar 10, 2014)

timor said:


> Correct. But can you imagine film beginner starting from Laica ? Doling out $10000 just to try film ?



Nikon still sells the F6 and FM10 new as well.  

Most people that want to try film just go get a $25 camera from goodwill or ebay anyway, and there are quite a few repairmen that still work on the old ones. 

The expensive cameras come later after they're hooked.  Also, you don't have to spend $10,000 to shoot with a Leica.  Perfectly useable M3s/M2s can be had for around $500 and older screw mount lenses are still as good as they were in the old days and can be cheap too.  I bought a Summitar 50mm for $300 about a year ago that works great on my M6 with a $30 adapter.


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## timor (Mar 10, 2014)

bhop said:


> [Nikon still sells the F6 and FM10 new as well.
> 
> Most people that want to try film just go get a $25 camera from goodwill or ebay anyway, and there are quite a few repairmen that still work on the old ones.
> 
> The expensive cameras come later after they're hooked.  Also, you don't have to spend $10,000 to shoot with a Leica.  Perfectly useable M3s/M2s can be had for around $500 and older screw mount lenses are still as good as they were in the old days and can be cheap too.  I bought a Summitar 50mm for $300 about a year ago that works great on my M6 with a $30 adapter.


Yes, but we are talking 20 years into future. There will be not enough this $25 cameras from Goodwill (that already is mostly finished) in working condition to support film production. In any case all, what is made new now is only small format.


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## gsgary (Mar 11, 2014)

timor said:


> Correct. But can you imagine film beginner starting from Laica ? Doling out $10000 just to try film ?



My next purchase will be an MP (mechanical Perfection)


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## gsgary (Mar 11, 2014)

timor said:


> Yes, but we are talking 20 years into future. There will be not enough this $25 cameras from Goodwill (that already is mostly finished) in working condition to support film production. In any case all, what is made new now is only small format.



In the UK there are hundreds of places I can send an old camera for repair, there will always be experts that can service my Leicas


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## Rick58 (Mar 11, 2014)

timor said:


> Something for hard core film photographers:
> The Light Farm



I saw this yesterday, but been too busy to wade through it. It looks like a great site. Thanks :thumbup:


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## Josh66 (Aug 8, 2014)

I saw a discussion on Flickr a while ago (over a year) about some guy who was making his own film - I mean, even making the polyester base from scratch - in his basement or something.

Now, "making film" WAS his day job (he was a retired engineer or something at Fuji).  It was all very cool.  I tried to find it, but couldn't.  The point is, it's possible!  All of the machinery was homemade too.


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