# Talk to me about lighting modifiers



## JonA_CT (Jan 27, 2017)

I'd like to start playing with lighting more in my photography. My plan is to purchase a Yongnuo HSS capable flash, a radio trigger for my camera, and to use the Neewer flash I have already as a slave.

My question is -- if you were going to learn to using two lighting modifiers, what would you use? I Was thinking an shoot-through umbrella of some sort, but I'm not sure what would be appropriate for the second light.

I also have a 5-1 reflector that I'm planning to buy a stand for, if it matters...and my budget is probably around $100. Maybe a little more if you have a really compelling idea.


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## KmH (Jan 27, 2017)

What kind of subject do you want to light?
Indoors or outdoors?

The bigger a light modifier is the softer the light and the more diffuse the shadow edges are.

I liked convertible umbrellas so I could shoot-through and use them reflected.
Even better, I like using brolly's - a cross between a soft box and an umbrella.
But you can't get 2 decent brollys for $100.

You would probably not go to wrong starting with something like this kit:
Impact Digital Flash Umbrella Mount Kit


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## Frank F. (Jan 27, 2017)

I started with translucent foil, carboard boxes, a decent box cutter and a  collection of adhesive tape plus thermal blanket gold/silver.

With these you can DIJ light formers of any kind on the set within minutes. Only thing you need on top is a flash holder for your tripod or lighting stands.

Lighting stand. Good ones are made by Manfrotto. That is where they started. I do not dig their tripods for cameras though


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## Derrel (Jan 27, 2017)

My Opinions: I am not a fan of shoot-through umbrellas because they give basically a 60/40 through/spill ratio: 60% or so of the light is diffused, and the other 40% bounces off the umbrella and back into the surrounding room. This ratio varies somewhat depending on the type/beam spread of liught used. Additionally, shoot-through umbrellas often create a rather bright central area that looks "lit", and then there's fall-off all around that.

The best learning tool is a soft-white interior, dull-white interior, reflecting umbrella in about the 32 inch size with a speedlight. This gives you a nice, low-specularity, clean, white light. Look for a vinyl interior in the umbrella description. This is different from the shiny, silvery fabric type reflecting umbrella which is the more common interior type.

The convertible type of umbrella  KmH mentioned is similar in usefulness, but it will not (can not!) have the white, dull, vinyl interior. Still, I like a convertible better than a shoot-through umbrella.

Second tool would be a decent reflector and a grip arm and light stand to position it.

Third tool would be a low-cost, made in China type 24 x 24 inch square softbox, with a recessed face, and an optional fabric "egg crate" or grid acccessory.

For learning how to light with a speedlight, you have no modeling lights, and so the emphasis on the smaller modifiers: the 32 inch umbrella and the 24 x 24 inch softbox: these will literally SHOW you where to position the light. These cast more shadow, and reveal more character, and emphasize putting the light in the correct spot, more than throwing a huge swath of vague-origin light that sort of comes from nowhere. Whatever you do, avoid the big 60-inch class modifiers at the start of your lighting journey.


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## astroNikon (Jan 27, 2017)

on the low cost side,
I've found I don't like shoot through unbrellas.  There's no control over where the light spills.  It just goes all over the place.

On reflector umbrellas you have the same problem as shoot through just not as bad.

The Brolly's are nice, though you get spillage but you get TWICE the diffusion and a softer light.  It makes you start wondering about grids and controlling the spillage.  You can make some home grids for them and partial covers to create small strip lighting.  I bought my brollys really inexpensive ==> Amazon.com : PBL 43in Photo Softbox Umbrella Reflective : Shoot Through Umbrella : Camera & Photo

after that, moved up to strip grid lighting which were about $80 each ==> Amazon.com : Valufoto 12"x60" Strip Light Softbox with Grid and Bowens Speedring for Nikon, Canon SpeedLight and Studio Strobe : Camera & Photo

and then it goes on and on and on ...


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## ronlane (Jan 27, 2017)

I would agree with Derrel and astroNikon. I found myself really frustrated with the shoot through umbrella's because I didn't get the results that I was wanting. I found that I liked the results of a bounce umbrella (where you bounce the light into it and it reflects the light in the opposite direction) much better. Then I moved to the 24" softbox and I am waiting on my order to be shipped for a collapsible 38" octabox very soon.

There are a few brands of the 24" softboxes like Derrel mentioned. Interfit makes one called Strobies that is less than $100 with the mounting bracket ready to use for speedlights.


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## JonA_CT (Jan 27, 2017)

So much good advice...I knew you all would have the answers for me.

I'll be focusing on people probably, and I'd like the set-up to work inside and out (although realistically, even nice lighting equipment would be challenged by the wind most days here in coastal New England). You've pointed me in the right direction...now I need to go do some reading and figure out what I think I can manage. It looks like I need to negotiate with SWMBO to allocate some more funds for this project too. Maybe I'll run the washer and dryer for the weekend


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## Derrel (Jan 27, 2017)

Take a look at this.  From the company that basically "invented" Hollywood's movie lighting equipment, and then a couple decades later, pioneered professional studio electronic flash. Photogenic Umbrella - "Eclipse" White, Black 909143


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## KmH (Jan 27, 2017)

There are ways to control the spill from an umbrella whether it's used shoot through or reflected. You can even make an umbrella function like a strip type light modifier.

A good brolly .....
Photek Softlighter II, 46 inch Umbrella with Diffuser.

The more of a person you want in the photo, the larger your light modifier needs to be. Or, the more people you want in the photo the bigger your light modifier needs to be.
A 32" umbrella or softbox will work for head and shoulder shots.
45" works for head and torso. 60" for 3/4 shots.

Once you get into it 5 or more lights are used to shoot portraits,
Key, fill, kicker(s), hair, background, etc.

The Portrait Photographer: Key Light and Fill Light for Portraits


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## Derrel (Jan 27, 2017)

Personal Opinions: Almost all of the following personal opinion, but there is some emprical data referenced from J.P.'s video.

I do not, at all, subscribe to the idea that a 32 inch umbrella is only useful for head and shoulder shots...that's largely a myth, predicated on the idea of soft, mushy light, spewed in the general direction of the subject. Again...this idea that the light souce needs to approximate the physical size of the subject: that is an idea that has spread like wildfire since the internet got going, and it assumes that what you want *is flat, even, low-ratio lighting, with little direction, and very little modeling of shapes. *This 1990's look in lighting is passe.

There is a reason the 20-inch and 22-inch beauty dishes have become popular within the past 10 years: people have grown tired of 1990's lighting styles and lighting with massive modifiers as "big as the subject is". Sixty-inch umbrellas are a massive pain in the a$$ unless you have a full-fledged, vaulted ceiling studio to work with, and in many situations, they force you to have the light well below the subject's head level. The new 7-foot umbrellas? I bought one. Been used TWICE. Umbrellas in the 30 to 45 inch range are very useful, and as the video actually shows...they cover a BIG area, no matter what the size of the umbrella actually is.

Check this video and see for yourself: 




This is the best YouTube umbrella tutorial I have seen. Take a look at the 2:00 mark and see that a Photoflex 30-inch reflecting umbrella loses 1/2 stop of light-*-over a 12-foot-wide area.*.. So much for internet folklore. Across a 6-foot wide swath, the same 30 inch umbrella has only 1/4 EV of fall-off...assuming absolutely ZERO fill-light AND shot in a cavernous studio where there will be no help from any nearby walls or floors. 

For the beginner, it's more important to learn where, exactly, to place the source or the light, and to have some shadows, some modeling of the subjects, to literally be able to see what the heck the light's placement actually creates; this is why I suggested the smaller, 32-inch umbrella size to start, especially with a speedlight.

The above Photek Softlighter II is popular with Annie Liebowitz of Rolling Stone; there are others similar, like the Lastolite Umbrella Box (which has the desired dull-finished vinyl interior) for VERY soft, diffused lighting; and also, $35 or so made in China umbrella boxes from Steve Kaeser Enterprises, and other vendors. I do not call these brollies. These are all reflecting-type umbrellas, with a front diffusing panel, so the light is doubly-diffused. Light leaves flash, hits umbrella concave side and is scrambled, then that light goes out through the front diffusing panel.


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## JonA_CT (Jan 30, 2017)

I'm still spinning with all of the options. I think I'm going to get a single Photogenic umbrella, and a stand for my reflector. I think I need to use one light + reflector for a bit and see how that works before I invest too much money. Googling all of these options makes my head spin. Hopefully everything will come in for the weekend, and I'll get some time to shoot some victims.


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## tirediron (Jan 30, 2017)

You can't go wrong starting with a reflecting umbrella.  They were the first "real" modifier, and IMO still one of the most versatile.  I have 3 32" Photoflex umbrellas in my Brownline "deployment" bag.  I might not be able to produce the most creative light, but I know if I forget my brollybox, giant SB, BD, etc, etc...  I still have those 3 umbrellas and they will get me out of almost any situation.


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## table1349 (Jan 30, 2017)

This might be a useful read: Photography Lighting Modifiers | Popular Photography

Like others above, I am not a fan of shoot through umbrellas.


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## JonA_CT (Jan 30, 2017)

I pulled the trigger.

I bought a stand, the umbrella mount, and the umbrella that @Derrel recommended. I also picked up stand to hold my 5-in-1 reflector, which upon further reflection, will probably be my back drop for awhile. 

Oh yeah...and I picked up a Yongnuo 685 and the radio trigger that matches it. I told my wife that was completely necessary. I couldn't possibly find something suitable to remote fire my Neewer flash. 

Thanks to my proximity to NYC, this will all arrive tomorrow.


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## smoke665 (Jan 30, 2017)

JonA_CT said:


> I'll be focusing on people probably, and I'd like the set-up to work inside and out (although realistically, even nice lighting equipment would be challenged by the wind most days here in coastal New England).



Just a thought, like you I was trying to piece together on the cheap, only to find that I was always outgrowing the capabilities. I've got umbrellas (shoot through and reflective), stands, multiple speedlights, triggers, etc, but I quickly learned I it wasn't enough. You don't realize it, till it's to late, that you could've bought what you needed to begin with. My dear wife finally said enough, you can buy more ONLY if it will do the job you want to do. It forced me to sit down and think out what I needed. After a lot of suggestions by those here and elsewhere, I settled on AB400's   Paul C. Buff - AlienBees B400 one with a medium (37") octabox and the other with the standard 7" reflector that can be used with an umbrella or however I need it. A speedlight works great as a kicker.

While this is a little more than your budget. You could start off with one, and not be limited in adding to as you grow.


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## Derrel (Jan 30, 2017)

GOOD article linked to above by gryponslair99 at Photography Lighting Modifiers | Popular Photography   Has a nice overview of various types of light and good advice and tips on how to use them.

Great to hear that you've got some stuff ordered and you'll soon be on your way! As far as I know, the free Strobist 101 and Strobist 102 courses are still on-line, and the Flickr user galleries are likely still maybe 75% live links; actually doing the exercises with the apple, or with an egg, or a bowl of fruit, and literally doing the homework will show you a lot about how the umbrella and flash work together, and about distance/shadow hardness/fall-off rates.

A 32-inch reflecting umbrella is a great start to learning how to use off camera flash. It really can elevate many a shot, just by the presence of some diffused, yet directional light. As far as Smoke's suggestion above, of going with monolights, they do give the modeling lamps and the higher oputput. I have been recommending the Adorama house brand, the Flashpoint 320M for a long time, now on sale at $89.95   Flashpoint M Series

More powerful than other lights specified as "400" or "800", the 320M is right about 160 Watt-seconds of stored energy fired through the gas inside the flashtube...about the right flash power for this era in which ISO 100 and 200 on digital slr cameras is so good.


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## smoke665 (Jan 30, 2017)

Derrel said:


> Adorama house brand, the Flashpoint 320M for a long time, now on sale at $89.95 Flashpoint M Series



Yup, seriously considered these but they were never in stock at the time. When I called the folks at Paul Buff and explained my goals they were able to walk me through what to order and when. In fact the CS Rep I talked to had personal experiences that really helped make my decision. From what I've seen the Bees really hold their value on Ebay, and the 400's put out more than enough light for my application.


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