# Michael Phelps



## BoblyBill (Aug 12, 2008)

Discuss


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## Battou (Aug 12, 2008)

?


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## matt-l (Aug 12, 2008)

good swimmer


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## km_Bandit (Aug 12, 2008)

is part merman.


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## LaFoto (Aug 12, 2008)

I don't want to ... less even since almost ALL our German swimmers are presenting a performance which can only be described as "catastrophic" (save Paul Biedermann, who is the only one to have reached a final once and won fifth), so for us, from our German perspective, the swimming is a TRAGEDY to watch, more so since after the heats everything is always over for all our swimmers. 

Therefore I need not even be angry that the semi-finals and finals are adapted to American prime time TV (Chinese morning, middle of the night for us here, best TV times in the States), since no German swimmer ever swims any semi-finals, let alone finals. 

So: I don't want to discuss Michael Phelps.

And hey, back in 1972 I was 12, and had totally fallen for Mark Spitz at the time, so actually I want my teenage-hero to remain the best swimmer of all times :greenpbl: !


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## Mitica100 (Aug 12, 2008)

Fish?


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## spiffybeth (Aug 12, 2008)

he's somewhat attractive?

http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/040820/040820_michaelPhelps_vmed_3p.widec.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/124/381028570_083475b1f7.jpg


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## LaFoto (Aug 12, 2008)

Mark Spitz was MORE attractive back then! (To me! Back then! )

http://www.gazeta.lv/images/mark_spitz3(1).jpg


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## spiffybeth (Aug 12, 2008)

i looked him up, corinna. oh my god with that mustache! :lmao:


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## Battou (Aug 12, 2008)

spiffybeth said:


> i looked him up, corinna. oh my god with that mustache! :lmao:



A mustashe on a swimmer......I guess shaving is a modern thing huh


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## BoblyBill (Aug 12, 2008)

Well... I think it's exciting watching him. 4x100m free relay was just an awesome race to watch specially because of what the french had said before the race.


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## spiffybeth (Aug 12, 2008)

i agree chris, that was an exciting race!


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## Mikey_boy (Aug 12, 2008)

eee. I'm related to Michael Phelps. It goes a long long way back, when my great great ( i think) Grandfather was a thames waterman


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## clarinetJWD (Aug 12, 2008)

BoblyBill said:


> Well... I think it's exciting watching him. 4x100m free relay was just an awesome race to watch specially because of what the french had said before the race.



I was quite irked at the commentary for that race.  The race itself was spectacular, but Phelps was hardly the MVP there.  He just hung on for the first leg.

Even though it was the second and fourth swimmers (I can't remember their names, unfortunately) that truly excelled in the race, the commentators still didn't give them a moment of airtime, focusing on Phelps instead.


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## dklod (Aug 12, 2008)

Phelps is a freak...but the aussies got some world records back thanks to Rice and Sullivan.


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## Crazydad (Aug 12, 2008)

Just won his 10th gold. He is amazing....

Read an article today that whil training, he swims the equivilant of 50 MILES a week, plus weights, etc.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23531107-details/Rise+of+the+human+dolphin/article.do


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## John_Olexa (Aug 12, 2008)

Yeah he did! But he didn't look happy for some reason. Maybe took a little more out of him then he thought?? We'll find out a little later.


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## Peanuts (Aug 13, 2008)

I am thinking in a year we will hear he was drug doping  Kidding! (I hope)

On a side note I went to preschool with the fastest Canadian female swimmer who is now at the Olympics - whoo hoo


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## Senor Hound (Aug 13, 2008)

I refuse to think of any person who drinks and drives as a hero, whether he has 1 gold medal or 12.  I also don't like how they shove that crap under the rug for people like him, and broadcast it like hell when someone like Lindsay Lohan has one.  To me, he's no better than her, he's just a better swimmer.

I hate to be so cynical, but I just have a problem with our society promoting bad behavior (I don't care if he drinks, but DUIs aren't cool), and giving certain people the "golden boy," treatment.  We should either be forgiving to all, or put everyone on the hot seat for everything like this.


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## Senor Hound (Aug 13, 2008)

Peanuts said:


> On a side note I went to preschool with the fastest Canadian female swimmer who is now at the Olympics - whoo hoo



That's awesome!  Was she always really athletic in everything, or were you able to whoop up on her in other things, like tag and dodge ball?   If so, you've got a lot of bragging to do...


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## Puscas (Aug 13, 2008)

I thought about becoming a professional swimmer, but decided against it. So Phelps has me to thank for all those medals...





(oh, and I used to watch it when VDH was raking in the gold. Now not so much).



pascal


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## Dubious Drewski (Aug 13, 2008)

Phelps?  Aren't those the wackos from Westboro?


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## Flash Harry (Aug 13, 2008)

BoblyBill said:


> Discuss



No, swimming!


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## LuckyStarPhotography (Aug 13, 2008)

He's up to 11~!
He's phenomenal. His mother said when he was a kid he use to say he wanted to grow up & be the best swimmer in the world.
:hail::hail::hail:


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## Corry (Aug 13, 2008)

Flash Harry said:


> No, swimming!



This took me a second, but once I got it, I


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## Chiller (Aug 13, 2008)

Id say he has potential to be a really great swimmer one day.:thumbup::thumbup:


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## Alex_B (Aug 13, 2008)

spiffybeth said:


> he's somewhat attractive?
> [ ... ]
> http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/040820/040820_michaelPhelps_vmed_3p.widec.jpghttp://farm1.static.flickr.com/124/381028570_083475b1f7.jpg



he does not have my hair, but his body is very similar to mine!


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## Corry (Aug 13, 2008)

I thought it was pretty amazing to watch him at the end, when they were giving them thier medals.  

I didn't get to watch the actual race.


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## spiffybeth (Aug 13, 2008)

Senor Hound said:


> I refuse to think of any person who drinks and drives as a hero, whether he has 1 gold medal or 12.  I also don't like how they shove that crap under the rug for people like him, and broadcast it like hell when someone like Lindsay Lohan has one.  To me, he's no better than her, he's just a better swimmer.
> 
> I hate to be so cynical, but I just have a problem with our society promoting bad behavior (I don't care if he drinks, but DUIs aren't cool), and giving certain people the "golden boy," treatment.  We should either be forgiving to all, or put everyone on the hot seat for everything like this.


last i checked, no one asked for him to be your hero.
and his DUI charges (i just went and read about them) were no different than the DUI charges kids in my town received.

And no one is promoting his poor behavior.


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## BoblyBill (Aug 13, 2008)

clarinetJWD said:


> I was quite irked at the commentary for that race. The race itself was spectacular, but Phelps was hardly the MVP there. He just hung on for the first leg.
> 
> Even though it was the second and fourth swimmers (I can't remember their names, unfortunately) that truly excelled in the race, the commentators still didn't give them a moment of airtime, focusing on Phelps instead.


 

I agree, it was the second and last leg that really was amazing to watch. especially the last leg!!!!!!


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## Senor Hound (Aug 13, 2008)

spiffybeth said:


> last i checked, no one asked for him to be your hero.
> and his DUI charges (i just went and read about them) were no different than the DUI charges kids in my town received.
> 
> And no one is promoting his poor behavior.



True, but the kids in your town aren't going to have tons of kids at home watching them on TV, saying they want to be like them.  And by not running this guy into the dirt for his poor behavior, you are promoting it.  He got away with it, basically.  And now people are going to think they can do the same.  No one is asked to be a hero.  But when you do certain things, it comes with the territory.  When you get put into the spotlight, people will look up to you, and will start to mimic your actions, good or bad.  What's gonna happen to a high school swimmer who thinks this sort of behavior is okay, cause even the, "greatest swimmer of all time," could get away with it?

Personally, I don't think anyone with a criminal background should be able to compete.  If he had been busted for pot, he'd probably be banned, but endangering others on the road is fine.  Sounds like a double standard to me...


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## spiffybeth (Aug 13, 2008)

Senor Hound said:


> True, but the kids in your town aren't going to have tons of kids at home watching them on TV, saying they want to be like them.  And by not running this guy into the dirt for his poor behavior, you are promoting it.  He got away with it, basically.  And now people are going to think they can do the same.  No one is asked to be a hero.  But when you do certain things, it comes with the territory.  When you get put into the spotlight, people will look up to you, and will start to mimic your actions, good or bad.  What's gonna happen to a high school swimmer who thinks this sort of behavior is okay, cause even the, "greatest swimmer of all time," could get away with it?
> 
> Personally, I don't think anyone with a criminal background should be able to compete.  If he had been busted for pot, he'd probably be banned, but endangering others on the road is fine.  Sounds like a double standard to me...


i still disagree with this.
he had to go around giving talks at schools about his actions. he had to publicly renounce his own actions as being dumb and wreckless. certainly if he had been a nobody, he'd just be another stat.

and who cares that he drinks. if you think kids in high school dont drink, youre blind.

people mess up. get over it.


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## Senor Hound (Aug 13, 2008)

spiffybeth said:


> i still disagree with this.
> he had to go around giving talks at schools about his actions. he had to publicly renounce his own actions as being dumb and wreckless. certainly if he had been a nobody, he'd just be another stat.
> 
> and who cares that he drinks. if you think kids in high school dont drink, youre blind.
> ...



I have no problem with people who drink.  I have a problem with losers who get behind the wheel of a car after drinking, intentionally putting innocent lives in danger.  That's why they have cabs you can call.

I forgive people who, "mess up," but I feel they need to pay the consequences.  The US has a very relaxed policy on DUI, and in my opinion, he shouldn't have been allowed to compete.  I forgive him, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be punished.  Likewise, anyone else who has a DUI needs to be SEVERLY punished for their actions.  These few thousand-dollar fines aren't cutting it.  They need to be hit where it hurts, like being barred from athletics at their schools, and having financial aid taken away, at least for a few years.  Then people might think twice about endangering the lives of others.  If a person gets busted for possesion of marijuana, they're no longer eligible for student loans for their ENTIRE LIFE, yet someone can kill another person in a DUI, and still get aid.  There's a problem here.

But that's all I'm gonna say.  It wasn't the point of the thread.  Congratulations to him and all that happy horsecrap, but IMO there are many other, much better role models out there that even though they haven't won 11 gold medals, have much better character than this guy.


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## lostprophet (Aug 13, 2008)

God, can't people be positive for a change?


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## Senor Hound (Aug 13, 2008)

lostprophet said:


> God, can't people be positive for a change?



no.


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## John_Olexa (Aug 13, 2008)

I'm not concerned with his DUI charge, which is not as bad as a DWI. 2 beers will get you a DUI charge with the limit what it is in most states.

As long as it don't happen 2,3 times no big deal, anybody can make a mistake.


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## lostprophet (Aug 13, 2008)

it must be nice to be perfect


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## spiffybeth (Aug 13, 2008)

Senor Hound said:


> I have no problem with people who drink.  I have a problem with losers who get behind the wheel of a car after drinking, intentionally putting innocent lives in danger.  That's why they have cabs you can call.
> 
> I forgive people who, "mess up," but I feel they need to pay the consequences.  The US has a very relaxed policy on DUI, and in my opinion, he shouldn't have been allowed to compete.  I forgive him, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be punished.  Likewise, anyone else who has a DUI needs to be SEVERLY punished for their actions.  These few thousand-dollar fines aren't cutting it.  They need to be hit where it hurts, like being barred from athletics at their schools, and having financial aid taken away, at least for a few years.  Then people might think twice about endangering the lives of others.  If a person gets busted for possesion of marijuana, they're no longer eligible for student loans for their ENTIRE LIFE, yet someone can kill another person in a DUI, and still get aid.  There's a problem here.
> 
> But that's all I'm gonna say.  It wasn't the point of the thread.  Congratulations to him and all that happy horsecrap, but IMO there are many other, much better role models out there that even though they haven't won 11 gold medals, have much better character than this guy.


actually you arent off topic at all. chris said discuss michael phelps and we are.

your issue isnt with michael phelps, your issue is with the penalty and legal system in america and this isnt the place to bring it up.

for what its worth, he'll never need financial aid and he isnt allowed to swim for michigan because he's a professional, so just calm it down over there.

not to mention he blew a 0.08. yes that's legally over the limit, but that doesnt mean he was feeling the effects of it.

and something tells me, you havent forgiven him. and really, what is there to forgive?


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## Senor Hound (Aug 13, 2008)

lostprophet said:


> it must be nice to be perfect



Being imperfect is far from endangering others with reckless behavior.  That's all I'm saying.  If it had been a Minor in Possesion or something like that, whatever.  But when someone gets behind the wheel of a car intoxicated, that's VERY wrong.  

Our society only thinks of it being a big deal when they get into an accident and kill someone, but anyone who gets behind the wheel of a car while drunk is taking this chance.  Whether it actually happens is irrelevant, they still took the risk.

Truthfully, I find the complacency towards drunk driving here a bit disturbing...


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## spiffybeth (Aug 13, 2008)

Senor Hound said:


> Being imperfect is far from endangering others with reckless behavior.  That's all I'm saying.  If it had been a Minor in Possesion or something like that, whatever.  But when someone gets behind the wheel of a car intoxicated, that's VERY wrong.
> 
> Our society only thinks of it being a big deal when they get into an accident and kill someone, but anyone who gets behind the wheel of a car while drunk is taking this chance.  Whether it actually happens is irrelevant, they still took the risk.
> 
> Truthfully, I find the complacency towards drunk driving here a bit disturbing...


someone alert the media!
senor hound is upset...


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## Senor Hound (Aug 13, 2008)

spiffybeth said:


> actually you arent off topic at all. chris said discuss michael phelps and we are.
> 
> your issue isnt with michael phelps, your issue is with the penalty and legal system in america and this isnt the place to bring it up.
> 
> ...



Okay, so I think he's a tool who's overrated.  He may be a great athlete, he may even be the greatest athlete ever, but IMO, he's a bad person, and will be undeservingly treated as a role model.

Is that better and more on-topic?


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## Senor Hound (Aug 13, 2008)

spiffybeth said:


> someone alert the media!
> senor hound is upset...



Not upset.  Just slightly disturbed by the complacency here.  Personally, it sounds like others are upset because they do think of him as this great person, and find my comments upsetting.  Otherwise they'd feel no need to reply to them.  But whatever...:er:


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## spiffybeth (Aug 13, 2008)

Senor Hound said:


> Okay, so I think he's a tool who's overrated.  He may be a great athlete, he may even be the greatest athlete ever, but IMO, he's a bad person, and will be undeservingly treated as a role model.
> 
> Is that better and more on-topic?


you can have whatever opinion of him you want. it doesnt matter to me.

tons of people choose people with poor characters as role models. why does it bother you?


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## John_Olexa (Aug 13, 2008)

Senor Hound said:


> Truthfully, I find the complacency towards drunk driving here a bit disturbing...


 

I hope you practice what you preach. Tell me you NEVER had 2 or 3 beers on the way home or stopped on a Sat night just for a couple? 
Thats all it would take to get a DUI.

He made a mistake, nobody got hurt, as long as it don't continue to happen NO BIG DEAL!

****, I know a bunch of cops who get tanked at  FOP partys all the time.


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## Senor Hound (Aug 13, 2008)

spiffybeth said:


> tons of people choose people with poor characters as role models. why does it bother you?



Because I have to much faith in humanity.  Call me naive or a fool, but it bothers me when people look up towards criminals as a source of inspiration, or worse yet, when they desire to follow in their footsteps.  It's my own problem, I admit.


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## Senor Hound (Aug 13, 2008)

John_Olexa said:


> I hope you practice what you preach. Tell me you NEVER had 2 or 3 beers on the way home or stopped on a Sat night just for a couple?
> Thats all it would take to get a DUI.
> 
> He made a mistake, nobody got hurt, as long as it don't continue to happen NO BIG DEAL!
> ...



No.  I have never driven drunk.  That's what cabs are for.  You don't have to see too many people die because of drunk driving before you realize how bad it is.  For the record I haven't gone out to a bar in 2 years, not because I'm opposed to drinking, but because I have no way to get back without driving under the influence.  There are no cabs or buses where I am, so I would much rather be responsible than have a good time.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but as I said before, the complacency people have on here towards drunk driving is a bit disturbing.  But its your opinion nonetheless.


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## Alex_B (Aug 13, 2008)

There is never an excuse for drunk driving, but everybody has made mistakes in his or her life. If he does not continue doing this, it is fine for me. I cannot judge if he is a good or bad person. And I do not want to judge.

To be a good athlete he needs not to be a responsible or good person. Also it has nothing to do with personal character.


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## Alex_B (Aug 13, 2008)

Senor Hound said:


> Because I have to much faith in humanity.  Call me naive or a fool, but it bothers me when people look up towards *criminals *as a source of inspiration, or worse yet, when they desire to follow in their footsteps.  It's my own problem, I admit.



well, that is what most actors, politicians and athletes are anyway  ... I never understood why anybody would look up to them ... people do, but you cannot prevent that.


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## Senor Hound (Aug 13, 2008)

Alex_B said:


> There is never an excuse for drunk driving, but everybody has made mistakes in his or her life. If he does not continue doing this, it is fine for me. I cannot judge if he is a good or bad person. And I do not want to judge.
> 
> To be a good athlete he needs not to be a responsible or good person. Also it has nothing to do with personal character.



True, which ends up making little kids look up to juiced athletes, or wife-beaters or drunk drivers, etc.  My personal opinion is that athletes should have to sign a morals clause in their contracts.  It won't happen, and maybe constitutionally they have the right to illegal activities as much as the other guy, but it makes for some really confused kids.  I still feel he did a very bad thing which was not properly punished.  I will totally forgive someone for their mistakes, but that doesn't mean there aren't consequences to pay.  I just personally feel his consequences were slight at best.



Alex_B said:


> well, that is what most actors, politicians and athletes are anyway  ... I never understood why anybody would look up to them ... people do, but you cannot prevent that.



Alex, you are a very smart man, and although your statement is very true, it hurts me to think of a good kid being influenced by these people.  Our role models should be scientists who drive Audis...


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## Senor Hound (Aug 13, 2008)

BTW, you people really shouldn't listen to what I have to say anyway.  I'm just a guy with a lot of issues expressing my opinion.  Although I stand by my beliefs, I'd be somewhat bothered if they influenced you guys in any way.  I have way too many issues as a person to be inspirational to anyone.  Although I'm adamantly opposed to hurting others both in intentional and unintentional ways (as in a DUI), many would find my self-destructive behavior to be just as offensive to them,  as I do the topic at hand to me.

I apologize for venting here.  I feel guilty now.


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## Alex_B (Aug 13, 2008)

Senor Hound said:


> Alex, you are a very smart man, and although your statement is very true, it hurts me to think of a good kid being influenced by these people.  Our role models should be scientists who drive Audis...



uhm :blushing: thanks. but maybe undeserved.

Not all of those Audi drivers strictly follow the speed limits, and not all of them are free of guilt in every possible way.


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## Senor Hound (Aug 13, 2008)

Alex_B said:


> uhm :blushing: thanks. but maybe undeserved.
> 
> Not all of those Audi drivers strictly follow the speed limits, and not all of them are free of guilt in every possible way.



No one is.  As long as your actions don't harm others, though, you're a cool cat.

You haven't been robbing banks again, have you?


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## kundalini (Aug 13, 2008)

I read that he, Phelps, is one of a dozen US athletes that signed up for additional blood and urine test in an effort for drug-free sport.  

I wonder if this is the same as I heard of Dara Torres, that has given a sample of blood to be used in the future when new methods are developed for the testing of enhancing drugs?

I think that's admirable since he will certainly be in a league with other athletes, such as Michael Jordan or Tiger Woods, for putting his sport in the global limelight.


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## spiffybeth (Aug 13, 2008)

Senor Hound said:


> No one is.  As long as your actions don't harm others, though, you're a cool cat.


his actions harmed didn't harm anyone and no one is free of guilt so dont you think its a little pathetic (dont get angry) for YOU to CHOOSE who people look up to as role models?  we are all guilty of something, but you, senor hound, get to choose which guilts can be overlooked and which cannot.....can you say god complex? 
haha

and another thing.
a role model means you look up to them for whatever attribute they possess that you'd like to possess. that does NOT mean you do the same things they do. take nearly any great rock and roll musician. and now think of all those people who have them as role models, and because rock and roll musicians did drugs, they shouldnt qualify as role models despite their skill at what they do? sounds pretty lame to me.


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## Alex_B (Aug 13, 2008)

spiffybeth said:


> . and now think of all those people who have them as role models, and because rock and roll musicians did drugs, they shouldnt qualify as role models despite their skill at what they do? sounds pretty lame to me.




well, I know some people, who when young, started with drugs because they followed the example of musicians. they did it because they thought it cool since their role models did it. they wanted to be like them. both are clean by now, but it took some years and they have some "issues" these days due to their drug consumption (heroine and LSD).

I am not saying that this is their role model's fault, I am just saying that role models can have an influence beyond what they should.


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## spiffybeth (Aug 13, 2008)

Alex_B said:


> well, I know some people, who when young, started with drugs because they followed the example of musicians. they did it because they thought it cool since their role models did it. they wanted to be like them. both are clean by now, but it took some years and they have some "issues" these days due to their drug consumption (heroine and LSD).
> 
> I am not saying that this is their role model's fault, I am just saying that role models can have an influence beyond what they should.


i think its pathetic when people blame their poor choices in life on someone else. 

NO ONE does drugs because of someone else.

edit: this excludes things like date rape drugs where the person who ingests the drug is doing so unknowingly.


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## Alex_B (Aug 13, 2008)

spiffybeth said:


> NO ONE does drugs because of someone else.



many things are done because of external influence instead of internal reason. In particular young people often just copy what they see. 

Of course everyone is _responsible_ for his or her own actions. Still these actions can have been promoted by external influence.

If I had grown up in a different environment, I would be a different personality. Maybe better, maybe worse, maybe even a criminal.






Actually almost no one does drugs without external influences.


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## spiffybeth (Aug 13, 2008)

Alex_B said:


> many things are done because of external influence instead of internal reason. In particular young people often just copy what they see.
> 
> Of course everyone is _responsible_ for his or her own actions. Still these actions can have been promoted by external influence.
> 
> ...


right, if i didnt know drugs existed, i wouldnt take them.
but to blame the people who took drugs before us is beyond silly. not to mention, if young people took drugs and continued doing them, it was because they liked how they felt. again, dont blame the role model. aside from a select few (rock and rollers...poor choice of role model example by me lol) no one endorses drugs.


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## Alex_B (Aug 13, 2008)

spiffybeth said:


> right, if i didnt know drugs existed, i wouldnt take them.
> but to blame the people who took drugs before us is beyond silly. not to mention, if young people took drugs and continued doing them, it was because they liked how they felt. again, dont blame the role model. aside from a select few (rock and rollers...poor choice of role model example by me lol) no one endorses drugs.



we left the role model discussion a bit anyway.
Of course you always have the choice. but people are prone to rather poor choices, some more, and some less. But once under bad influence, the probability for poor choice increases dramatically. Be it role models. peer pressure, puberty-induced pseudo-protest ... and once you are on the wrong track, and people around you are on the same track, it is very hard to turn back.

no one is born as a complete personality.


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## kundalini (Aug 13, 2008)

spiffybeth said:


> ....no one endorses drugs.


.... but why am I constantly reminded on TV adverts that a little blue pill will let me throw a football threw a swinging tire? (I may have the wrong color for that example)


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## spiffybeth (Aug 13, 2008)

kundalini said:


> .... but why am I constantly reminded on TV adverts that a little blue pill will let me throw a football threw a swinging tire? (I may have the wrong color for that example)


ahahaha. drugs ARE the answer!!!!


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## spiffybeth (Aug 13, 2008)

Alex_B said:


> we left the role model discussion a bit anyway.
> Of course you always have the choice. but people are prone to rather poor choices, some more, and some less. But once under bad influence, the probability for poor choice increases dramatically. Be it role models. peer pressure, puberty-induced pseudo-protest ... and once you are on the wrong track, and people around you are on the same track, it is very hard to turn back.
> 
> no one is born as a complete personality.


(im going to stay on the topic of role models for the sake of this conversation though ill leave role models if you want me to) 

influences are all around us, no one disputes that. but someone like michael phelps, who in theory isnt directly touching the lives of the people that he's a role model for, it would be ridiculous for them to say well michael phelps drank a few beers and drove, so i can too.
in my many experiences with this type of stuff, it has nothing to do with role models and everything to do with who youre with.....
if my friends think i can only drink 4 beers, ill be a p***y, so i have to not be drunk and im ok to drive. or my parents said i have to be home by 12 and its 1153pm so i have to drive now and theyd be pissed if they knew i was drinking, so i have to fake being sober...
its that type of mentality rather that leads to drunk driving rather than the influence of the role model.


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## Corry (Aug 13, 2008)

Hmmm, well, a few things I feel like touching on.  

I don't support drunk driving.  I think it's horrible, and I know 3 children that I'm very close to who are growing up without a mother because of it (she was the one drunk . . . 3 times the legal limit).  

HOWEVER.  

1) I don't know about there, but in Illinois, .08 IS the legal limit.  Granted, he was underage, so .00001 is over the limit.  . . . and admittedly, I'm not sure if .08 gets you arrested, or .09 does, but either way, it's right on that line, and I have no doubt that it's pretty hard to tell if you're over that line.  I am in NO WAY condoning drinking and driving, and as Phelps himself said, what he did was wrong.  

But . . . 

2) . . . if what Beth said is true, and he went around to schools giving talks, as well as the normal punishments, then, no, he didn't 'get away with it.'  The judge noted that he was a public figure, and the judge noted that people look up to him and his actions.  That is why he would have had to publicly go around and give these speeches and talk about how what he did was wrong.  

If he continued to drink and drive, then I'd agree with you (senor) 100%, but as far as we know, he didn't.  He paid a price. Should he never be given another chance? Should he not be allowed to make up for it and move forward?  

How fair is that?  

And you compared him to Lyndsay Lohan?  Apples to oranges, my friend.  Lyndsay Lohan has had multiple offenses, and continues, to this day, to party and act outrageously.  

From what I can tell, Michael Phelps has not continued that behavior.  

If it comes out in the news tomorrow that Phelps goes on wild drinking binges and then hops in his car to go road sodeyin', then yeah, I'll be right there with you.  

Until then, in my eyes, he's an Olympic Hero who made a mistake once, paid the price, and learned his lesson.


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## spiffybeth (Aug 13, 2008)

"Under the terms of his probation, Phelps must give speeches to students at three Wicomico county schools by June 1, advising youngsters about making choices and warning them about the dangers of alcohol."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/11/08/national/main654380.shtml


edit: AND this article talks about people who look up to him and have him as a role model.


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## Chiller (Aug 13, 2008)

I think everyone makes mistakes in their lives, whether you are famous or some yahoo like me. I will admit during my band days, and my party days, I drank till I could not see, and did some chemicals that I should not have done. Yes, one night,and only one night, I drove and could barely see out my window. I was young, stoopid, and a complete idiot. It was a mistake and thankfully, I did not hit anyone or anything .. But it also only takes one night to do damage that can not be reversed
I am clean now. I have not touched anything for 15 years. But that day where I drove and should not have still plays in my head. We laughed at it like we were invincible. 
I think what Im saying , is this Phelps guy has put that behind him, like a lot of people, and now supports his swimming. The media will always find the bad in a celebraty, to bring them down. Just like some chick will be coming forward next and saying she made a porn movie with him. :lmao:

Just my 3 cents, cause our dollar is not worth as much as y'alls. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Back to my crypt


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## spiffybeth (Aug 13, 2008)

speaking of phelps, he's on now.


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## Chiller (Aug 13, 2008)

spiffybeth said:


> speaking of phelps, he's on now.


 
What is he doing.


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## spiffybeth (Aug 13, 2008)

lol, swimming.
he just won a heat.


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## Hawaii Five-O (Aug 13, 2008)

All I know is those underwater cameras take better pictures than me, and they are robots!!:lmao:

I htink they should put Phelps up against the fastest female swimmer at the olympics and see who wins. That would be interesting. I wonder who would win?

A woman would be sleeker and lighter, but phelps would have more weight to cut through the water.


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## kundalini (Aug 13, 2008)

Not to go too far off topic, but a little while ago, May/Walsh of the US defeated Norway in Womens Beach Volleyball and that made 104 matches on the trot.


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## spiffybeth (Aug 13, 2008)

i saw that one too.
and the synchronized diving is amazing (even if the US screws up their sychronicity on their hardest dive  )


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## Chiller (Aug 13, 2008)

Not to go off topic here either. Canada still has not won a medal. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Gheesh, with country this size we should have...um....1


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## Hawaii Five-O (Aug 13, 2008)

Don't give up, you just have to belive:thumbup:


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## Chiller (Aug 13, 2008)

C677T said:


> Don't give up, you just have to belive:thumbup:


  I believe alright...I believe that we are getting schmoked. :lmao::lmao:


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## kundalini (Aug 13, 2008)

There's always the Winter Olympics in 2 years.


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## Chiller (Aug 13, 2008)

kundalini said:


> There's always the Winter Olympics in 2 years.


 

I know eh.?  The snowball fight team is ready to go. :lmao::lmao:


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## spiffybeth (Aug 13, 2008)

curling!!!!!!  :heart::heart::heart::heart::heart:


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## Chiller (Aug 13, 2008)

spiffybeth said:


> curling!!!!!! :heart::heart::heart::heart::heart:


 

I say make that a contact sport.


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## spiffybeth (Aug 13, 2008)

id love to try sweeping!!! is that what its called? 

have you done it?


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## Chiller (Aug 13, 2008)

spiffybeth said:


> id love to try sweeping!!! is that what its called?
> 
> have you done it?


Id rather use a vaccuum.  I suck at sweeping.


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## spiffybeth (Aug 13, 2008)

lol  :greenpbl:


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## kundalini (Aug 13, 2008)

I heard rumors that there will be an exhibition event of Mens Synchronized Calligraphy.


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## Chiller (Aug 13, 2008)

spiffybeth said:


> lol :greenpbl:


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## spiffybeth (Aug 13, 2008)

kundalini said:


> I heard rumors that there will be an exhibition event of Mens Synchronized Calligraphy.


ill be sure to tivo that event in case im out doing anything else. sounds AWESOME!


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## kundalini (Aug 13, 2008)

MP swims in 5, no make that 4 minutes.


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## spiffybeth (Aug 13, 2008)

china is so good at gymnastics.
maybe its korea?


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## Chiller (Aug 13, 2008)

spiffybeth said:


> china is so good at gymnastics.
> maybe its korea?


 

Well...it sure aint Canada. :lmao:


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## spiffybeth (Aug 13, 2008)

id really love to swim one lap against him just to see how fast he is.......


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## kundalini (Aug 13, 2008)

spiffybeth said:


> china is so good at gymnastics.
> maybe its korea?


(are we talking mens?) definetly China.... Japan's pretty damn good too.


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## Senor Hound (Aug 14, 2008)

spiffybeth said:


> his actions harmed didn't harm anyone and no one is free of guilt so dont you think its a little pathetic (dont get angry) for YOU to CHOOSE who people look up to as role models? we are all guilty of something, but you, senor hound, get to choose which guilts can be overlooked and which cannot.....can you say god complex?
> haha



There is absolutely no difference between someone who drinks, drives, and kills someone because of it, and someone who drinks, drives, and gets home perfectly fine.  The actions are the same, and only independent variables determine the outcome.  To me, there's no difference in what he did, and if he did the same thing and killed a family of four.  He wasn't doing anything different on his end, it was just the circumstances that allowed it not to happen.



spiffybeth said:


> and another thing.
> a role model means you look up to them for whatever attribute they possess that you'd like to possess. that does NOT mean you do the same things they do. take nearly any great rock and roll musician. and now think of all those people who have them as role models, and because rock and roll musicians did drugs, they shouldnt qualify as role models despite their skill at what they do? sounds pretty lame to me.



I remember when Kurt Cobain committed suicide, there were (I think) about six other children who after finding out, went to their room, locked their door, put on, "Smells Like Teen Spirit," and blew their brains out.  But you're right, children are still able to decipher the good attributes from the bad ones in their role models, and adjust accordingly.

Perhaps you're taking the logic and intelligence you have at the age of (insert your age here) and applying it to a confused adolescent who is looking for an identity.  I remember one kid in my class started cutting himself because he heard Marilyn Manson did it, and he was 15.  Children at this point are sheep, begging to be led.  It takes even a healthy person well into their twenties before the develop pure autonomy from the pressures and beliefs of society.  And even then, they don't a lot of times.

But for the sake of clogging this thread up with useless letters, I'll stop here.  You're not going to change my opinion of him, as you will not change your opinion of your heroes.  Lets just agree to disagree, cause at this point, neither one of us is even learning anything from our discussions.


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## spiffybeth (Aug 14, 2008)

Senor Hound said:


> There is absolutely no difference between someone who drinks, drives, and kills someone because of it, and someone who drinks, drives, and gets home perfectly fine.  The actions are the same, and only independent variables determine the outcome.  To me, there's no difference in what he did, and if he did the same thing and killed a family of four.  He wasn't doing anything different on his end, it was just the circumstances that allowed it not to happen.


there is actually a very large difference




Senor Hound said:


> I remember when Kurt Cobain committed suicide, there were (I think) about six other children who after finding out, went to their room, locked their door, put on, "Smells Like Teen Spirit," and blew their brains out.  But you're right, children are still able to decipher the good attributes from the bad ones in their role models, and adjust accordingly.
> 
> Perhaps you're taking the logic and intelligence you have at the age of (insert your age here) and applying it to a confused adolescent who is looking for an identity.  I remember one kid in my class started cutting himself because he heard Marilyn Manson did it, and he was 15.  Children at this point are sheep, begging to be led.  It takes even a healthy person well into their twenties before the develop pure autonomy from the pressures and beliefs of society.  And even then, they don't a lot of times.
> 
> But for the sake of clogging this thread up with useless letters, I'll stop here.  You're not going to change my opinion of him, as you will not change your opinion of your heroes.  Lets just agree to disagree, cause at this point, neither one of us is even learning anything from our discussions.


id rather keep talking about this

my goal isnt to change your opinion of the man, but you need to stop blaming other people for poor choices.

and if children want to cut themselves because of marilyn manson thats fine, and if kids want to blow their brains out because of kurt cobain, thats fine too. survival of the fittest. id rather not have people of that intelligence level polluting the gene pool. 
if it wasnt marilyn manson or kurt cobain, they were going to follow someone else anyway.
...and let me guess... you want to blame Columbine on Doom?


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## Hawaii Five-O (Aug 14, 2008)

spiffybeth, you are confusing me with all you avatar changes


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## spiffybeth (Aug 14, 2008)

lol, sorry.


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## Josh66 (Aug 14, 2008)

spiffybeth said:


> and if children want to cut themselves because of marilyn manson thats fine, and if kids want to blow their brains out because of kurt cobain, thats fine too. survival of the fittest. id rather not have people of that intelligence level polluting the gene pool.
> if it wasnt marilyn manson or kurt cobain, they were going to follow someone else anyway.


I agree completely.  I don't remember ever being so incapable of independent thought that I did something just because someone else did it.  Even the bad stuff like drugs & alcohol (I don't really think there's anything wrong with either one, but whatever - this is the society we live in).  I did the things I did because I liked it, not because the band I listened to did it.



spiffybeth said:


> ...and let me guess... you want to blame Columbine on Doom?


No, that happened because they listened to Marilyn Manson and KMFDM, remember?


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## Corry (Aug 14, 2008)

O|||||||O said:


> I agree completely.  I don't remember ever being so incapable of independent thought that I did something just because someone else did it.  Even the bad stuff like drugs & alcohol (I don't really think there's anything wrong with either one, but whatever - this is the society we live in).  I did the things I did because I liked it, not because the band I listened to did it.
> 
> 
> No, that happened because they listened to Marilyn Manson and KMFDM, remember?



I'm going to agree, as well.  

Those people who did those things did so because they already had something else wrong with them that caused them to be unstable.  

A perfectly mentally healthy individual, regardless of being a teen or an adult, does not go off and . . . well . . . off themselves, just because someone famous did it. 

If a person decides to kill themselves or someone else because a famous person did it, they don't have a strong grasp on reality, nor do they fully understand the difference between right and wrong.  They are mentally ill.


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## Rick Waldroup (Aug 14, 2008)

Mr. Hound, your day will come. You will make a mistake, a horrible mistake, whether it is illegal or immoral, you will make a mistake. Probably more than one.

The goal in life is to learn from those mistakes and adjust your life accordingly. The ability to believe in the goodness of man and to learn the art of compassion and the art of forgiveness is what separates us from everything else. It makes us _human_.

Hey, I see you have a quote from Ayn Rand as your signature. Here is some advice- you are too young to adhere to her brand of nonsense. Get out and live a bit, my friend.


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## kundalini (Aug 14, 2008)

UPDATE:

May/Walsh just took care of Belguim.  Set 1 was very close with 5 set points.

Phelps, my role model, swims a little later tonight.  

But as far as role models, so was Ozzie at one time.  And I thought John Wayne was the bomb.  Who could deny Orson Wells, Edison, Einstein, Thomas Jefferson, Buster Keaton, Ben Franklin, Pee Wee Herman.  But alas, they all had some sort of short comings and thus, must be denied worthy of being role models.  I know........ Tony Robbins !


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## Hawaii Five-O (Aug 14, 2008)

thats cools that Sonie won her first swimming gold medal


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## Chiller (Aug 14, 2008)

C677T said:


> thats cools that Sonie won her first swimming gold medal


 Canada still has not won anything yet.... We sooooooo rock.


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## spiffybeth (Aug 14, 2008)

phelps is amazing.

6/6


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## kundalini (Aug 14, 2008)

Dang, I was on the phone and missed the race..............


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## spiffybeth (Aug 14, 2008)

allow me to update you. he won.


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## Hawaii Five-O (Aug 14, 2008)

that boy has a lot of bling


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## John_Olexa (Aug 15, 2008)

7 for 7 !!  And *BOY* was that a close one!!!!!   One more to go.


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## Crazydad (Aug 15, 2008)

That was unbelievable! I didn't think he would get it.


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## Parkerman (Aug 16, 2008)

Senor Hound said:


> There is absolutely no difference between someone who drinks, drives, and kills someone because of it, and someone who drinks, drives, and gets home perfectly fine.  The actions are the same, and only independent variables determine the outcome.  To me, there's no difference in what he did, and if he did the same thing and killed a family of four.  He wasn't doing anything different on his end, it was just the circumstances that allowed it not to happen.




Have you ever heard of someone dying in a high speed crash? Someone innocent, just a by standard who was going about their normal day until someone who was exceeding the speed limit slammed into them... Maybe a street race gone wrong... crashing into a minivan killing a family..

Have you ever sped, went 1mph over the speed limit.. 5. maybe 25 if you were in a hurry and was on a 45mph back road..Or on that 25mph residential community you knew 35 would be safe and slow enough. By your logic, you are no different than those who have wrecked and cause a death due to speeding. And instead of a simple ticket, you should be punished the exact same as them even though no harm from your action was caused.


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## Parkerman (Aug 16, 2008)

And on my opinion of Michael Phelps.. He's insane. Takes in 12,000 calories a day and swims about 5.5 miles each day.


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## Dmitri (Aug 16, 2008)

Parkerman said:


> And on my opinion of Michael Phelps.. He's insane. Takes in 12,000 calories a day and swims about 5.5 miles each day.



I heard a rumor that he's secretly a 10 year old Chinese girl. :crazy:


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## Parkerman (Aug 16, 2008)

Dmitri said:


> I heard a rumor that he's secretly a 10 year old Chinese girl. :crazy:





no no.. He doesn't do gymnastics for china.. So that's not possible. lol


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## Hawaii Five-O (Aug 16, 2008)

nah uh I think your fibbing, I saw him there! In gymnastics.


Thats why  he only "won" by .01 of a second, he was worn  out by doing two events.


Am I the only one who thinks winning by .01 of a second is basically tieing?


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## Parkerman (Aug 16, 2008)

So, hopefully in a moment he breaks the record..


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## Parkerman (Aug 16, 2008)

Bam.. History.


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## John_Olexa (Aug 16, 2008)

Yes Sir!


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## jv17 (Aug 17, 2008)

he is an amazing athlete..


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## Senor Hound (Aug 19, 2008)

Parkerman said:


> Have you ever heard of someone dying in a high speed crash? Someone innocent, just a by standard who was going about their normal day until someone who was exceeding the speed limit slammed into them... Maybe a street race gone wrong... crashing into a minivan killing a family..
> 
> Have you ever sped, went 1mph over the speed limit.. 5. maybe 25 if you were in a hurry and was on a 45mph back road..Or on that 25mph residential community you knew 35 would be safe and slow enough. By your logic, you are no different than those who have wrecked and cause a death due to speeding. And instead of a simple ticket, you should be punished the exact same as them even though no harm from your action was caused.



You're right.  And when I do stuff like this, I make a point to punish myself accordingly.  I'm not perfect, but I make sure that I suffer sufficiently from my mistakes that I don't repeat him.

My only point was that I don't feel he was punished enough.  He did a very bad thing, and here he is winning 8 medals.  Yet someone who tests positive for marijuana or something would totally be stripped of medals and other crap.  I have very high expectations out of people in life, but that doesn't mean I don't expect the same out of myself.  I'm insanely hard on myself.  Some people think I hurt myself unintentionally whenever I make sure I've been adequately punished for certain things, but at least I know I'll think twice about doing so.

And is there a reason you have me as your avatar, Beth?  That really hurts my feelings that you would find it funny to mock me because we disagree on something.  I know I'm ugly, but you don't have to post a photo of "the ugly guy," for everyone's amusement.


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## spiffybeth (Aug 19, 2008)

Senor Hound said:


> You're right.  And when I do stuff like this, I make a point to punish myself accordingly.  I'm not perfect, but I make sure that I suffer sufficiently from my mistakes that I don't repeat him.
> 
> My only point was that I don't feel he was punished enough.  He did a very bad thing, and here he is winning 8 medals.  Yet someone who tests positive for marijuana or something would totally be stripped of medals and other crap.  I have very high expectations out of people in life, but that doesn't mean I don't expect the same out of myself.  I'm insanely hard on myself.  Some people think I hurt myself unintentionally whenever I make sure I've been adequately punished for certain things, but at least I know I'll think twice about doing so.
> 
> And is there a reason you have me as your avatar, Beth?  That really hurts my feelings that you would find it funny to mock me because we disagree on something.  I know I'm ugly, but you don't have to post a photo of "the ugly guy," for everyone's amusement.


I don't understand. He made a mistake in 2004, and we are more than halfway through 2008 and you can't drop it.  His actions caused no harm to anyone and despite the fact that they could have, they did not.
Had he tested positive for marijuana, which is an ILLEGAL substance always, then he should be kicked out, but as it turns out, it was only alcohol and he paid for his poor choices. 
It's fine if YOU want to hold him to higher standards, but he did everything he was required to do after being convicted.  I really don't follow why he should be held up to YOUR standards? 
Do you see what im saying here? It's fine if you dont like him as a human, as a person, as a role model, whatever, but to tell anyone else that they shouldnt like him because YOU dont like him, is really *REALLY* annoying.

Being hard on yourself is fine. That has no relevant point in this conversation.

And I chose you as an avatar to mock you, yes.  As it turns out, I'm just being as passive-aggressive as you are. 

Stop apologizing and looking for sympathy from people you don't know. It's lame. Not to mention, you certainly won't get any sympathy from me.


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## BoblyBill (Aug 19, 2008)

Senor Hound said:


> You're right. And when I do stuff like this, I make a point to punish myself accordingly. I'm not perfect, but I make sure that I suffer sufficiently from my mistakes that I don't repeat him.
> 
> My only point was that I don't feel he was punished enough. He did a very bad thing, and here he is winning 8 medals. Yet someone who tests positive for marijuana or something would totally be stripped of medals and other crap. I have very high expectations out of people in life, but that doesn't mean I don't expect the same out of myself. I'm insanely hard on myself. Some people think I hurt myself unintentionally whenever I make sure I've been adequately punished for certain things, but at least I know I'll think twice about doing so.
> 
> And is there a reason you have me as your avatar, Beth? That really hurts my feelings that you would find it funny to mock me because we disagree on something. I know I'm ugly, but you don't have to post a photo of "the ugly guy," for everyone's amusement.


 
Before I ask you this question please note where I'm coming from...
My Grandpa was the scum of the earth because of alcohol (He on numerous occasions had threatened my moms brothers at gun point) also my uncle was in the car with his friend while both were slobering drunk, and the the driver of that car (not my uncle) killed a mom and three kids. That same uncle while not drunk was driving his motorcycle way, way over the speed limit and was pronounced dead for six minutes. So, both alcohol and driving fast impede your judgement...

How did you "penalize" yourself? Putting what Michael Phelps did (drinking and driving) and what you say you have done (speeding) in perspective... and then taking what you think the pentalty should be... Then your penalty would have to be just as bad as taking 14 gold metals and public humliation as well as taking all of his records off the charts, have you done that to yourself? Should I have to delete all my pictures that I have taken of storms and give back all the money I've made off of them because while storm chasing I was speeding? Even that would not be nearly the same penalty that Michael Phelps would have to experience. Also how many of us have driven while talking on the cell phone which studies suggest it's just as bad as talking on a cell phone as drinking. Please understand, I in no shape or form incourage people to be irresponsible with what they are given (they might end up like my grandpa the loser that he was), however, I gave my grandpa a second chance after second chance. As a side note... He died without anybody really caring because of the actions of his life. That to me was penalty enough... Life has a way settling the score by itself without us interfering. 


By the way here is a story I ran across today... Please again understand that I was not looking for fuel but was reminded of this conversation after reading this article.

http://www.nbcolympics.com/swimming/news/newsid=231074.html#phelps+wins+fulfill+promise+friend



> To be sure, Michael is not perfect. He is not a saint. He is still but 23 years old. He has made mistakes, and acknowledged them.


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## Senor Hound (Aug 19, 2008)

BoblyBill said:


> How did you "penalize" yourself? Putting what Michael Phelps did (drinking and driving) and what you say you have done (speeding) in perspective... and then taking what you think the pentalty should be...http://www.nbcolympics.com/swimming/news/newsid=231074.html#phelps+wins+fulfill+promise+friend



Usually I hurt myself.  Some people freak out when I tell them this, but you asked.  I will also deprive myself of certain things for periods of time, like food or something else.  I know its messed up, but I never said I wasn't.

I think part of the problem is that one of my best friends was killed by a drunk driver, so its something that hurts like a kick in the nuts to me.  I'm sure people on here will tell me that's just my opinion and it is.  But personally, I said before that everyone else was entitled to their opinion, I don't see why you guys feel the need to convince me I'm, "wrong," especially when wrong is subjective (I admit this).  So what if I think he's a loser and that he doesn't deserve to be considered a hero?  Why does that bother you?  Is it because you care about this guy?  Is it because you know him?



spiffybeth said:


> Stop apologizing and looking for sympathy from people you don't know. It's lame. Not to mention, you certainly won't get any sympathy from me.



I never said I wasn't lame.  I've admitted on numerous occasions I'm an ugly loser with no self-esteem, so you telling me this serves no point.  And I don't think I'm looking for sympathy as much as I'm trying to back down some.  I'm very passive, even on the internet, and I truthfully wish I hadn't said anything in the first place.  I should know better than to voice my opinion on the internet, especially when its an unpopular one.

BTW, thank you for taking down my photo as your avatar.  That was cold, IMO, and I appreciate that although you did it in the first place, you respected my request to do so.  In return, I promise not to insult your looks, character, or do anything like that to you, as this is a discussion, not a fight.


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