# Pricing for Product Photography?



## RussJames (Jan 17, 2014)

Howdy folks. Let my start by thanking you guys for how helpful you've all been with any question or dilemmas I've had as a novice photographer so far. Much appreciated.

So, I've spent these past couple days taking photos for a friend who makes all kinds of custom leather holsters and whatnot. So far I've taken about 
55 photos of various holsters and pouches, which took me about 4 hours to snap away. I've spend about 5 or 6 hours editing them.

Now maybe these aren't quite 'professional' quality photos but I think there pretty good and definitely better than what he had before. He's in the 
process of designing a fancy new website right now so the new photos are 'a must' for him.
*
... So what do ya'll folks think I should charge him for about 55 photos and about 10 total hours of work?...*

Any response, big or small, pro or novice, is very much appreciated. I look forward to hearing from you guys/gals. Thanks.

Here's just a couple examples I've taken so far to give you an idea of what I'm doing...


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## tirediron (Jan 17, 2014)

At least the cost of this book!  These aren't a bad start, but they have some specular highlighting issues which a good read through the book will help you sort out. As for pricing, this, for me, would be a straight time job + licensing; ten hours would be ~$1200, licensing would depend on use, duration, size, etc.  Anywhere from $500/year to a couple of thousand.


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## imagemaker46 (Jan 17, 2014)

Ask your friend how much he would be willing to pay for them.  After he gives you his answer, take it from there.  As no fee was mentioned in your post I can only assume that it wasn't discussed before hand.  Let us know how it works out, be honest with his answer, and then let us know how insulted you were.

The pictures look good.


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## RussJames (Jan 17, 2014)

tirediron said:


> At least the cost of this book!  These aren't a bad start, but they have some specular highlighting issues which a good read through the book will help you sort out. As for pricing, this, for me, would be a straight time job + licensing; ten hours would be ~$1200, licensing would depend on use, duration, size, etc.  Anywhere from $500/year to a couple of thousand.



Books? We don't need no stinkin' books! 

Kidding. Thanks for the quick reply. These photos were some of my first few from the day, and as you pointed out I was having some minor issues with specular highlights. By the end of the day though I tweaked a few things and managed to fix them up a bit to where they (highlights) weren't quite as distracting. Most of my other photos seem to be okay.

So, this might sound a bit ignorant and absolutely noob-ish (keep in mind that I'm a COMPLETE beginner to the business side of photography), but what do you mean by licensing?


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## RussJames (Jan 17, 2014)

imagemaker46 said:


> Ask your friend how much he would be willing to pay for them.  After he gives you his answer, take it from there.  As no fee was mentioned in your post I can only assume that it wasn't discussed before hand.  Let us know how it works out, be honest with his answer, and then let us know how insulted you were.
> 
> The pictures look good.



See, that's why I came to you guys; I have never sold a single picture in my life and therefor have very little knowledge of where to even begin pricing my photos. I was simply going to ask him for something around $100-$200, but after posting this same question on a couple other photography forums, it's got me thinking I might be under pricing these thangs a bit. I've had a few people say that they'd charge somewhere upwards of $800, which seems crazy to me. I'd never charge him that much, but now I'm thinking somewhere maybe around $350-$500 could be reasonable...

Wel'll see. I'll talk to him on Monday, see what he thinks, then get back you folks with my 1 to 10 rating on the insult-o-meter.


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## tirediron (Jan 17, 2014)

RussJames said:
			
		

> Books? We don't need no stinkin' books!
> 
> Kidding. Thanks for the quick reply. These photos were some of my first few from the day, and as you pointed out I was having some minor issues with specular highlights. By the end of the day though I tweaked a few things and managed to fix them up a bit to where they (highlights) weren't quite as distracting. Most of my other photos seem to be okay.
> 
> So, this might sound a bit ignorant and absolutely noob-ish (keep in mind that I'm a COMPLETE beginner to the business side of photography), but what do you mean by licensing?



There are two components to commercial work; one is your labour to create the images, the second is the customers use of them. They are your images, and like software, you're not selling the image, rather the rights to it's use in a specified way for a specified time.


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## Light Guru (Jan 17, 2014)

First off taking the photos before you have a signed contract that outlines the price and what you will deliver is a BIG no no. 

You say you were thinking of changing $100-$200 and that you spent about 10 hours total photographing and editing. That comes out to $10-$20 an hour.  To do photography work for $10 an hour absolutely not. And while $20 an hour may sound nice for you, by the time you take out taxes and a percentage for overhead costs like camera and computer equipment, and other costs you have of running a business you are maybe taking home $10 an hour.  So after looking at the math your $100-$200 is definitely to low. 

But like I said never actually do the work with out a signed contract outlining what you will deliver and what they will pay.  What happens if they say no we are not paying that much once you give them the price? You have then spent all that time doing work and getting no pay out of it.


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## RussJames (Jan 17, 2014)

Light Guru said:


> First off taking the photos before you have a signed contract that outlines the price and what you will deliver is a BIG no no.
> 
> You say you were thinking of changing $100-$200 and that you spent about 10 hours total photographing and editing. That comes out to $10-$20 an hour.  To do photography work for $10 an hour absolutely not. And while $20 an hour may sound nice for you, by the time you take out taxes and a percentage for overhead costs like camera and computer equipment, and other costs you have of running a business you are maybe taking home $10 an hour.  So after looking at the math your $100-$200 is definitely to low.
> 
> But like I said never actually do the work with out a signed contract outlining what you will deliver and what they will pay.  What happens if they say no we are not paying that much once you give them the price? You have then spent all that time doing work and getting no pay out of it.



Absolutely, I completely get your sentiments. Multiple other people have mentioned the importance of a contract and it's definitely something i'll look into in the future.

So I'm curious, if you were in my shoes, and the initial agreement was for 55 pictures to be taken (1 per holster) and edited, what kind of a price would you lay on the table?


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## photofree (Jan 17, 2014)

If you have never done this before, take what he gives you. Ask for a photos by line on the website. Use some screenshots in your portfolio. Learn and charge more down the road.

profound thinking about stuff


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## KmH (Jan 17, 2014)

How about $20,000 for 13 photos- http://www.digitalphotopro.com/business/case-study-producing-a-successful-estimate.html

I charged more than John does but the $1200 he mentioned, plus usage, is about right in your situation.
For the web use of just 1 photo for 1 year at a size no larger than 600 x 600 px, I charged $140.
Licensing for just web use of 55 photos, at no larger than 600 x 600 px per photo for 1 year I would give a quantity discount (50% off) and charge $3850 for the use licensing.

In effect, use licensing is a rental agreement. They rent use of your copyrighted photographs.
If you didn't work out pricing before you started making photographs, your negotiating position post shoot is extremely weak.

It's like when you rent a car. The rental car company still owns the car but you sign a agreement to use the car for a specified period of time.
You usually agree to pay for miles that exceed how many are specified in the agreement, maybe the agreement prohibits you from taking the car out of the state you rent it in.
And you agree to stop using the car and return it at some point in the near future.

Your copyright is actually a rather large bundle of rights. You can rent some of your rights but not allow the rental of some of your other rights.

So a photograph use license stipulates if the use is:
Exclusive or non-exclusive (exclusive use costs more)
Geographical extent of the use. (the larger the geographical area, the more it costs)
Usage media types (web, print, video, magazine advertisements, brochures. corporate reports, point of sale displays, product packages, billboards, flyers, newspaper inserts  the more media types the renter wants to use the more it costs)
How long
What size(s)
How many impressions (magazine print run, brochures. corporate reports, point of sale displays, product packages, billboards, flyers, newspaper inserts, etc.....)

American Society of Media Photographers - on the left - click on *Business Resources*
They have a use license generator too.


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## RussJames (Jan 18, 2014)

*@photofree*. That's pretty much exactly my plan at the moment. 

*@KmH*. Wow... So just the photographer himself made about $16,500 for about 1 full day of shooting and 1 full day of editing. That's insane. Some people 
can work day-in-day-out for over six months and not make that kind of moola. Clearly a great business to be in if you're good at what you do..

So yeah, your post taught me pretty much everything I need to know, KmH. That link (ASMP) is chock full of info; I've only skimmed the surface and I feel like
I've already learned all there is to know. Thanks for that.

I realize I sort of missed my opportunity to have some leverage in the negotiating process by not negotiating pre-shoot, but like I mentioned earlier, this is for a 
friend and it's also pretty much my first time doing something like this, so for the moment I'll just chalk it up as a "learning experience".

Thanks everyone for the advice so far, it's all been very helpful and is very much appreciated.


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## davisphotos (Feb 19, 2014)

I currently charge by the hour, usually around $150, but I need to work on that, since as I've become more efficient, that translates into less and less money for more and more items photographed. I occasionally will price by item, typically around $40-$60, which is what I would have done in your case.


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## Gavjenks (Feb 19, 2014)

If you can get the money, then charge as much as you can get.

But personally, putting myself in the shoes of a client, I would probably have to restrain myself from laughing out loud at somebody asking $100+ an hour for time for basic product white background photos (setting aside licensing for a moment). If you paid $200,000 and several years of your life and passed multiple grueling exams to get a law degree, then great, charge $100 an hour for your time.  If you're removing organs from me, then charge $100+ for your time.  If you're taking photos with anything less than Pullitzer prize winning quality, not so much.

It requires less training and less of an initial investment (for the gear you NEED, not what you WANT or have) as becoming a mechanic or a plumber, and they usually charge more like $50. And that's including any taxes and blah blah. So I'd expect time to be worth maybe $30 for a beginner with no significant portfolio, up to $50 for a standard working photographer, maybe $75-100 only if you are godly skilled or if your work involves a team, like models to show off the holsters etc.

And then licensing. Which i would find reasonable at an estimate of maybe ~2-7% of the revenue from the items you're helping to advertise, depending on how much of a role your photos are actually probably playing in the stuff being sold. Cover art for an indie album? Really high, it's pulling a lot of the marketing weight, maybe 10+%. Sterile photos of a ream of computer paper that the company only needs just to have something to fill the image box? Low creative and technical photo demands, low impact on sales, low royalties.



This is not based on any business experience of my own. This is based on me knowing a lot of hobbyist and part time photographers who can do a decent job similar to the one in the OP and knowing how much they could and would offer instead, if I were a business owner shopping around. They set a ceiling.




I might consider paying $200-500 an hour or much more if:
* I were a huge corporation with strict deadlines that needs something done epic-ly well as soon as yesterday.
* You have a huge and consistent portfolio of exactly the kind of work I want, and offer a very reliable risk.
* You're shooting stuff for high sales volume work, and the hourly wage is overshadowed by licensing anyway. Like magazine covers, etc.
* I've worked with you before.

But none of this seems to remotely apply to the situation in the OP, so I'm not talking from any of those perspectives.


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