# Dipping my foot in the water: What's a good approach?



## PaulWog (Aug 22, 2013)

I'm enjoying photography quite a bit. I've been shooting for about three months now. My shutter count on my D5200 is about 7000 now, and I've really learned a lot. I've been on my computer researching and learning for at least a couple hours a day for the past three months, so I've really put in a lot of time into the hobby. I know I still have lots to learn, and I expect to spend at the bare minimum another six-twelve months before I start taking real steps toward trying to make money (if I do at all) out of photography.

What I'm wondering is this: What's a good way to dip my foot into getting into photography part-time (and paid)? I'm a full-time University student (23 years old), and I'd love to do a little photography for money, even if it's only one shoot every month or two. I don't exactly want to start a thriving business on the get-go.

I know the type of gear that I'll need to pick up and the money that I'll need to invest, but I don't know which type of work might be best to start with if I'm looking to only begin semi-casually?


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## JohnTrav (Aug 22, 2013)

Look on Craigslist. There are always people on their looking for a budget photographer. Either make an add (great because it is free) or just look for people looking for someone.  Usually you won't get paid much but it's a start. 

If you can do some work with another photographer that is more established as a second shooter/ assistant. Great learning experience. I have done it for free just to learn and trust me as my first job it was a awesome learning experience.  And I also got a paying job out of it. The photographer had a client that didn't want to pay him his quote so he referred me and I ended up shooting the gradution party for my first paying gig. And it was solo so another learning experience.


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## Light Guru (Aug 22, 2013)

PaulWog said:


> What I'm wondering is this: What's a good way to dip my foot into getting into photography part-time (and paid)? I'm a full-time University student (23 years old), and I'd love to do a little photography for money, even if it's only one shoot every month or two. I don't exactly want to start a thriving business on the get-go.



It would help is we knew what type of photography you want to pursue.  For example shooting weddings, sports or landscapes would each have a different approach on how to begin getting payed.


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## PaulWog (Aug 22, 2013)

JohnTrav said:


> Look on Craigslist. There are always people on their looking for a budget photographer. Either make an add (great because it is free) or just look for people looking for someone.  Usually you won't get paid much but it's a start.
> 
> If you can do some work with another photographer that is more established as a second shooter/ assistant. Great learning experience. I have done it for free just to learn and trust me as my first job it was a awesome learning experience.  And I also got a paying job out of it. The photographer had a client that didn't want to pay him his quote so he referred me and I ended up shooting the gradution party for my first paying gig. And it was solo so another learning experience.



Thanks for the info 



Light Guru said:


> It would help is we knew what type of photography you want to pursue. For example shooting weddings, sports or landscapes would each have a different approach on how to begin getting payed.



A wedding would be too cumbersome to start, though it's something I'm interested in. Portrait work, stuff like graduation or family shots, kid shots, etc, might be interesting to start out with. Something where I can do a photoshoot for 2-4 hours. I am interested in all types of photography (sports, weddings, landscapes, you name it), so for me what I'm more concerned about is beginning small and simple, but still getting into the whole thing. Currently it's still just a thought.


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## 12sndsgood (Aug 23, 2013)

3 months is really not much time at all. Why such a rush to try to make money? Why not spend a few years learning and improving to the point that people are wanting to pay you. spend the time to learn what photography you like and study that field to get good at it. in that time you can also study business, marketing etc, etc, etc, to be able to run a business properly. by that time you can get good gear, get backup gear. Learn lighting, learn what to do in crappy light situations. learn better processing, and everything else that goes along with running a sucsessful business.


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## kundalini (Aug 23, 2013)

No offense intended and I don't want to sound like a gear snob, but you have entry level gear right now. There's a reason for that, to learn basic photography skills with. Take 12sndsgood's advice to spend time with the "hobby" to become proficient. Consistant results under various and demanding lighting conditions will be your guide to move to the next level.


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## tirediron (Aug 23, 2013)

Further on the topic of gear, what I see missing is any mention of lighting.  It's virtually impossible to shoot any of the genres you've mentioned without lighting and do a good job.  I would consider spending some money on basic lighting gear and learn how to use that effectively first!


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## amolitor (Aug 23, 2013)

Sports and landscapes don't really require lights, the equipment you need here are lenses. Something wider than what you have, for landscapes, and something faster than your long zoom for sports. Portraits can be done without lights, but it's a hell of a lot easier with, and most of the other stuff you just need lights because you can't control the situation enough to shoot well without them. At least not in contemporary idioms. I don't think the gritty b&w photojournalistic wedding shoot is a thing any more, for instance, is it? Anyways, that would be a bad place to try to jump in even if it was on account of it's hard.

There's nothing wrong with pursuing all of the genres at once, but there are different skills for each area. If you want to skip ahead briskly to being paid to do it, you should pick one and push forward. If you want to actually make money, you should pick one based on needs in your area, and then pursue the skills for that specific niche.


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## Light Guru (Aug 23, 2013)

amolitor said:


> There's nothing wrong with pursuing all of the genres at once, but there are different skills for each area. If you want to skip ahead briskly to being paid to do it, you should pick one and push forward. If you want to actually make money, you should pick one based on needs in your area, and then pursue the skills for that specific niche.



Exactly


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## KmH (Aug 23, 2013)

Even just part time, you really need a written business and marketing plan if you want to start a business.
Starting & Managing a Business | SBA.gov

The town you live in may require that you get a business license, and don't forget to consider taxes, producing the necessary legal documents (like a contract), acquiring business liability insurance.
In short, there is a lot to starting even a part time business.

The realities are - With the gear you have, and your limited experience it's not very likely you will make any money.
That's not to say people won't give you money for your services, but it's likely your cost of doing business (CODB) will exceed your revenues for the foreseeable future. 

The first $800 or so you get paid will cover what your camera cost. At least a part of the cost of any other hardware, software, cell phone usage, office supplies, etc, you use/buy to produce a product for your customers is also CODB.

Note that a portion of your CODB is also whatever salary you decide to pay yourself, if any.


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## PaulWog (Aug 23, 2013)

KmH said:


> The realities are - With the gear you have, and your limited experience it's not very likely you will make any money.
> That's not to say people won't give you money for your services, but it's likely your cost of doing business (CODB) will exceed your revenues for the foreseeable future.



"*I know the type of gear that I'll need to pick up and the money that I'll need to invest"*

I'm not sure why I need to reiterate this so many times, but I've quoted three responses so far. This isn't a thread asking about the gear I need, I don't need any help with that at all. I know exactly the gear I need for each type of job. This isn't directed at anyone in particular, but the elitist approach of "you've only been shooting for ____, you don't know what you're doing" is extremely patronizing. While photography is a profession that requires talent, experience, etc, etc... I can name all those ego-tickling words for people who have spent years in any field... it's neither friendly nor helpful to post comments such as "you need to be shooting longer". I am very aware of my level of experience in photography, how much knowledge I have, how much I need to learn to bring enough competency to a photoshoot, how much I'll need to invest, etc. I suppose it might be the open-endedness of my question that opened this floodgate of "you're a beginner you should know this..." comments. 

To reiterate my question: I know there's so many different types of photography, and there's subtypes upon subtypes that require different gear, levels of experience, property, employees, etc... I'm simply looking for more insight into which types of shoots I could do that last 2-4 hours, can be taken sort-of on a craigslist-type transaction, etc. I'm thinking general portraiture sort of jobs (ex. family shots, a small event, etc) might be the way to go. I'm not looking for consistent work: Just something to give a go at. I don't intend to do any paid work until I've done lots more free work and built up my experience... but, again, this whole "you don't know anything, go learn" advice is hog-wash: I know quite a bit.

What I'm asking about (and I appreciate your input in particular since it's good) is simply what areas might be easier to get into than others. I'm specifically interested in small jobs, and just for fun, but still paid (even if it's only a bit). I'm not looking to turn a profit necessarily... rather, I'd just want to mitigate a bit of the cost of the gear. It's a hobby, and probably always will be.



kundalini said:


> No offense intended and I don't want to sound like a gear snob, but you have entry level gear right now. There's a reason for that, to learn basic photography skills with. Take 12sndsgood's advice to spend time with the "hobby" to become proficient. Consistant results under various and demanding lighting conditions will be your guide to move to the next level.



No offense intended but you need to read what I've posted in its entirety. I already know I have entry-level gear at the moment. Hence:
"*I know the type of gear that I'll need to pick up and the money that I'll need to invest*, but I don't know which type of work might be best to start with if I'm looking to only begin semi-casually?"




tirediron said:


> Further on the topic of gear, what I see missing is any mention of lighting. It's virtually impossible to shoot any of the genres you've mentioned without lighting and do a good job. I would consider spending some money on basic lighting gear and learn how to use that effectively first!



"*I know the type of gear that I'll need to pick up *and the money that I'll need to invest, but I don't know which type of work might be best to start with if I'm looking to only begin semi-casually?"


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## amolitor (Aug 23, 2013)

No worries, TPF actually posts robotic replies when anyone starts to talk about going from unpaid to paid photography. There's no actual humans in this thread except you at the moment.

CODB CODB CODB


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## tirediron (Aug 23, 2013)

A good way to 'dip you foot in' is by taking the time to learn the basics of the craft.  To do that, you need the proper tools - give some of us who have been doing this for a day or two longer than you have for knowing that sometimes people just starting out don't know what they don't know, and our experience tells us that sometimes it's helpful to answer the questions that aren't asked as well as the ones that are.  I don't suppose it occurred to you that when several experienced individuals tell you the same thing, there might be a reason?


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## 12sndsgood (Aug 23, 2013)

simple answer, shoot what you love. If you love it you will stick with it, if you go out specifically to shoot something just so you can pay for a new lens you wont enjoy it, and if this is just a side adventure for you why do something you don't love. You need to go out and shoot different fields and find out what fits in for you. not what you can make easy money on. easy money for me would be going out and shooting an automotive shoot. Why? because I have shot them for several years, enjoy them. and can do it with my eyes closed. so for me that is easy money, can be done in a couple hours and isn't too gear intensive.  If you not into cars why would you do that if they didn't interest you? go out and find what you like to shoot. if you like portraits, start working portraits. whatever you do you should enjoy it and you wont know what it is you enjoy till you go out and shoot more.


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## PaulWog (Aug 23, 2013)

tirediron said:


> A good way to 'dip you foot in' is by taking the time to learn the basics of the craft.  To do that, you need the proper tools - give some of us who have been doing this for a day or two longer than you have for knowing that sometimes people just starting out don't know what they don't know, and our experience tells us that sometimes it's helpful to answer the questions that aren't asked as well as the ones that are.  I don't suppose it occurred to you that when several experienced individuals tell you the same thing, there might be a reason?



Alright, to clarify what I know: I already know how to set up lighting for the particular things I'm interested in. I realize that it would be beneficial to pick up at the bare minimum a D7100 (if I'm on a budget) so that I can get 1/8000 of a second shots, as well as commander. I realize that if I start to take on paid work, I'll most likely need to have two camera bodies with me, and depending on the work my D5200 might be a bit lacking just on the flash limitations (though it should be fine if I throw something like an SB700 on it for commander). I realize that for particular kinds of work that I'll need various lighting equipment (diffusors, reflectors, flash tripods, multiple flash units, etc, etc). I realize for different types of jobs various types of things may be of use (black rapid, monopod, tripod, and other things). I could go on and on. I've watched countless hours of videos and read countless hours of articles, and I've spent many hours shooting. While that doesn't add up to making me a professional or ready to run a photoshoot, it still brings me up to a speed that most beginners aren't at in the amount of time I've been shooting. I've already conceded that I intend to continue shooting and learning for some time before I even start considering taking on a specific job.

I'm in the process of picking out a flash head for my D5200, and I'll be connecting it via a wire, so that I can do some single-flash off-camera photography. I find flash and lighting to be quite straight-forward in many ways... while there's lots to learn (bouncing light, controlling light, limiting light, throwing on filters to take the camera down a few stops while maintaining the same DoF, etc), I think I have a considerable grasp on it all.

I'm considering picking up a 17-55 in the place of my 16-85 now (for my own purposes: walk-arounds), though I'm also weighing the option of just sticking it out for a while and shifting to FX with a 24-70 f2.8. If I got into doing any shoots, I wouldn't have the cash for a Nikon 70-200 f2.8, so I'd either be shooting with a Tamron/Sigma 70-200 f2.8, and/or an 85mm 1.8G, depending on what I'd need for the telephoto/portrait reach end. I realize there's lots of different lenses for different jobs, I know what lenses are good for each job, I know that there is variation between each photographer and what they find works best for the job, and I know having multiple camera bodies can be useful for a job... etc... etc.

I don't particularly want to get into writing an essay on what I know, but that's just a little bit of it. While I need to continue working on how I frame my shots, as far as getting consistent shots in demanding situations, I have that down (of course I can use more practice and use different gear, but I know I am a consistent photographer at least without flash -- and I know the limitations and how to push those limitations given my gear and any particular scenario/lighting situation).

As far as editing raw files goes, I also need to pick up an IPS screen. I have worked professionally with Photoshop, so photoshop and lightroom are second-nature to me.


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## kundalini (Aug 23, 2013)




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## PaulWog (Aug 23, 2013)

kundalini said:


>



I'm not coming to you to tell you what I can do. I'm posting a thread and asking for input about which types of photography gigs are easier to get into for very sparse, very part-time work.

You came here to tell me that I don't have the right gear. I already said in my post that I know I need to invest in additional gear.

There's no need to start flaming me and acting like a complete...


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## Dinardy (Aug 23, 2013)

PaulWog said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> > A good way to 'dip you foot in' is by taking the time to learn the basics of the craft.  To do that, you need the proper tools - give some of us who have been doing this for a day or two longer than you have for knowing that sometimes people just starting out don't know what they don't know, and our experience tells us that sometimes it's helpful to answer the questions that aren't asked as well as the ones that are.  I don't suppose it occurred to you that when several experienced individuals tell you the same thing, there might be a reason?
> ...




Instead of writing an essay you should just post some pictures of what you know

Its easier to critique your skill that way, instead of going back and forth about thin air 
:mrgreen:

...maybe the qualified pros and give you a bit of critique on your work, give you a good idea of how to approach gaining some paid gigs


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## amolitor (Aug 23, 2013)

I know everyone would like to critique the dude's abilities, and the dude's equipment and blah blah blah.

That's not what he asked for.

Move along.


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## tirediron (Aug 23, 2013)

PaulWog said:


> I'm not coming to you to tell you what I can do. I'm posting a thread and asking for input about which types of photography gigs are easier to get into for very sparse, very part-time work.
> 
> You came here to tell me that I don't have the right gear. I already said in my post that I know I need to invest in additional gear.
> 
> There's no need to start flaming me and acting like a complete...


First of all, please understand that the "I just bought a camera, what else do I need for my first wedding which I have booked for tomorrow do I need to know?" type of question is one of the most common; not saying that is your case, but any time someone asks a 'newbie going into business question' eyebrows are raised.  That aside, remember that this is a public Internet forum; you asked a question and people will answer it they way they feel is appropriate.  Just because you don't like the answer is no reason to take offense.  Someone may have simply misunderstood or mis-read your question, someone may feel that there is a question you didn't ask...  

With respect to your question of which areas are easiest to get into, well, I suppose family/senior, and wedding/event because all you need to do is get a business license, some insurance and hang out a shingle.  Whether you get clients or not, well, that's a different matter altogether.  I appreciate that you have been doing a lot of studying, and you may well be a better photographer than many who have been doing it the same length of time as you, BUT... are you actually ready to start charging?  Are you 100% confident that you could deliver a quality product this afternoon if the clients for the family shoot showed up wearing black pants, white shirts and baseball hats and insisted on shooting outside in direct, overhead sunlight?


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## kundalini (Aug 23, 2013)

PaulWog said:


> I'm not coming to you to tell you what I can do. I'm posting a thread and asking for input about which types of photography gigs are easier to get into for very sparse, very part-time work.
> 
> You came here to tell me that I don't have the right gear. I already said in my post that I know I need to invest in additional gear.
> 
> There's no need to start flaming me and acting like a complete...


In your retort with bolded and repeated declarations of what you know (even though we know different by your questions) will only elicit further derision.  This is why you will receive statements, questions and attitudes such as.....





Calm down and take in what is useful in the responses.  You've dissed three long standing active members (yes, myself included) and are on the brink "who gives a chit" with a piss poor attitude for additional help.  Thus, the inclusion of the video clip.  Keith and John hold libraries of photographic information not to be thwarted.  I only know enough to be dangerous.  Start afresh with your next response to welcome input from the community.  With longevity, you will be able to filter out the bullspit.


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## PaulWog (Aug 23, 2013)

kundalini said:


> PaulWog said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not coming to you to tell you what I can do. I'm posting a thread and asking for input about which types of photography gigs are easier to get into for very sparse, very part-time work.
> ...



That kind of information makes thephotoforum look like a terrible area to look for good information. The way you've spun this, it looks like I need to bend down and take it from the "regulars". I'm looking for advice from photographers with some experience under their belts: I'm not looking to be taken for a ride by forum regulars, regardless of how much experience you have in photography. I'm familiar with how particular forum-goers get.

amolitor has it exactly right: I had a question. It's fairly straight-forward. I'm curious about what areas of photography are easier to get into than others. I clarified what I wanted: gigs that last 2-4 hours, and can be picked up occasionally. I was curious how to put myself out there for such a thing (advertising, a medium for finding a client). 

While I appreciate some of the input (there are some genuine responses with concern about where I'm coming from), however others (such as yourself) begin in this thread with a very condescending tone. It's offputting, and it's not welcomed.



tirediron said:


> PaulWog said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not coming to you to tell you what I can do. I'm posting a thread and asking for input about which types of photography gigs are easier to get into for very sparse, very part-time work.
> ...



Thanks  I appreciate all of that information

(With regards to your question, of course I wouldn't be ready _today_. I know what practice I need, and I know I need to invest in some gear. If I put myself out there, I'll need to have a competent friend ready to come in for a cut of the pay to act as an assistant if things become cumbersome -- setting up lighting quickly, holding lighting equipment, shooting with a second body, etc. When it comes around to the real thing, if I do get there in 6-12 months, then I'll be starting to polish up my equipment list, and I'll be looking at the fine-details. Right now, I'm many months out at the very least, so this is all theoretical, and I want to put my eyes on the specific area I might get into first so that I can shape my gear up and skills up for a specific first job. I'm not sure if I'm going to go for this or not, but it's a thought.)


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## Derrel (Aug 23, 2013)

This book might help you target a few specific "types" or "kinds" of photography buyers. It will give you some ideas, at the very least. If you're not sure what "kinds" of gigs are out there, I think reading this book will be of some help in giving you a broader knowledge of who buys photography.

Photographer's Market 2014, Bostic, Mary Burzlaff : Art, Music & Photography : Walmart.com


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## imagemaker46 (Aug 24, 2013)

Enjoy photography for a while, keep getting better shooting more and more of the subjects that you are really interested in, and if you are going to dip your foot in the water, make sure the other one is firmly planted on solid ground.  It takes very little water to drown in.


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## kathyt (Aug 24, 2013)

Just post some images and let us get an idea of the level you are at right now. We can then help you move foward from there. What do you enjoy shooting the most? Are you portfolio building right now for free? What have you been shooting? We need a starting point here.


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## terri (Aug 24, 2013)

> That kind of information makes thephotoforum look like a terrible area  to look for good information. The way you've spun this, it looks like I  need to bend down and take it from the "regulars". I'm looking for  advice from photographers with some experience under their belts: I'm  not looking to be taken for a ride by forum regulars, regardless of how  much experience you have in photography. I'm familiar with how  particular forum-goers get.
> 
> amolitor has it exactly right: I had a question. It's fairly  straight-forward. I'm curious about what areas of photography are easier  to get into than others. I clarified what I wanted: gigs that last 2-4  hours, and can be picked up occasionally. I was curious how to put  myself out there for such a thing (advertising, a medium for finding a  client).
> 
> While I appreciate some of the input (there are some genuine responses  with concern about where I'm coming from), however others (such as  yourself) begin in this thread with a very condescending tone. It's  offputting, and it's not welcomed.



You have my apologies for having to sense this attitude.   Clearly you have a working knowledge of lighting and post-processing and are here to seek suggestions for a reasonable next step.   You ARE posting your question in the correct forum, too, no worries.     

Just to remind the others who have posted here, this forum's description reads:    _Looking to make your hobby into a  business? Already in business? This  is the place for you. Discuss marketing, pricing,  legal issues and  other ideas relating to the business of photography._

The OP has every right to ask questions here without being told he has to post images to pass some kind of litmus test before any of you can step down from your lofty positions to bother to answer him.   He is not here asking you to critique his work.    Don't reply to this thread if that's your mindset.    Keep moving.   

Sorry for the thread hijack, PaulWog.    Hopefully there have been enough positive replies here to get something worthwhile.   Give TPF a chance!


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## KmH (Aug 24, 2013)

PaulWog said:


> . . . but I don't know which type of work might be best to start with if I'm looking to only begin semi-casually?


The point I was trying to get across is there is no way to begin semi-casually.


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## vintagesnaps (Aug 24, 2013)

I appreciate Terri stepping in, I've expressed before how new people tend to get treated often in a less than positive way; if someone doesn't have any suggestions or advice it isn't necessary to comment. 

Saying you're at 7000 in a few months to me is rather mind boggling, and you mentioned framing shots; I'd suggest you slow down and think about framing and composing images being something to work on in the next few months. You can have all the studio lighting in the world but skills need to be developed too. 

It might help to narrow down what type photography you'd like to do if you're looking at this being a sideline/part time because I think there are a number of options. Besides the photography skills you'd probably need to look into what goes into being in business for yourself if you haven't yet, ASMP is one organization that has some good resources.


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## kathyt (Aug 24, 2013)

It is very hard to give any kind of direction with no information. What do you like to shoot? What have you been shooting? Macro? Portraits? I would think you would want to like what you are shooting if you plan on spending a lot of time at it. Right?


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## CCericola (Aug 24, 2013)

It's easier to find portrait gigs for a little money or even trade. I've traded portraits for free makeup before. When you are ready to make some scratch (even part time) the next step is getting all the legal and accounting stuff ready. You will need to register as a business, get an EIN number ( because venders you use may want you to set up accounts with them and they'll want your EIN. I would rather give them a business EIN instead of my social security number), set up a business account ( most banks have free ones) then you need insurance. Liability and equipment. They usually come in a package deal. About $300 a year on the low end. 

The next step is hitting the pavement and drumming up business. Check the theatre department at school. They always need head shots.


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## AceCo55 (Aug 25, 2013)

vintagesnaps said:


> _It might help to narrow down what type photography you'd like to do if you're looking at this being a sideline/part time because I think there are a number of options._ Besides the photography skills you'd probably need to look into what goes into being in business for yourself if you haven't yet, ASMP is one organization that has some good resources.



You're kidding right?   
What do you think the OP has been asking for in EVERY one of his posts????


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## AceCo55 (Aug 25, 2013)

KmH said:


> PaulWog said:
> 
> 
> > . . . but I don't know which type of work might be best to start with if I'm looking to only begin semi-casually?
> ...



Why not? Photographer looking to pick up jobs when and if they suit them. May do an excellent job on each assignment but just not interested in regular jobs.


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## AceCo55 (Aug 25, 2013)

kathythorson said:


> Just post some images and let us get an idea of the level you are at right now. We can then help you move foward from there. What do you enjoy shooting the most? Are you portfolio building right now for free? What have you been shooting? We need a starting point here.



Why does the OP need to post any photos in order to answer his question. Where he is at is not relevant to his inquiry. To help him move forward, suggest possible jobs that can be done in 2-4 hours and on a casual/intermittent basis.


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## IByte (Aug 25, 2013)

amolitor said:


> No worries, TPF actually posts robotic replies when anyone starts to talk about going from unpaid to paid photography. There's no actual humans in this thread except you at the moment.
> 
> CODB CODB CODB



...Beep boop


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## bratkinson (Aug 27, 2013)

I know I'm 'late to the party', but I'll add my 2-cents worth, anyway.

For starters, 7000 clicks in a short time tells me that you are either into taking a shot at every angle of everything in your view, or, you are shooting more frames at 6fps than in 'stop, compose, think, compose, think, set the camera, compose, focus and shoot' mode. Yes, there are times that 'point and shoot' with a DSLR works (as in &#8220;A&#8221; mode). But most of the time, it's not about the 'miles driven' or frames clicked, it's all about the results. What have you learned from those 7,000 frames? Can you shoot in low light, even with 'kit' gear, and get decent results, sans flash? How about harsh mid-day sun with subjects back lit? Or any of 1000 other situations where trial and error are the best teacher? While one can never have every lighting situation 'fully rehearsed' and 'down pat' in advance, even the act of -recognizing- a back lit situation, for example, is a big step that needs to be learned on the road to proficiency...usually the hard way.

While various responders have focused on 'what do you like to shoot?' responses, I'll word it differently...what subject types have most of your shots been? If that's what you like taking pictures of, then take more shots of those subjects and learn the ins-and-outs of that area of photography. Shoot in the sunlight (morning, noon, evening)&#8230;in the rain&#8230;after dark&#8230;even in a snowstorm. Soon enough, you'll discover what you may be lacking to improve your shots....lens, lighting, reflectors, filters, handheld meter, whatever...and go from there. As you are already aware of, different subject areas of photography require different 'sets' of gear. Spending thousands of dollars to get a 500mm lens only to discover 6 months later you prefer macro photography is not the road to take. Perhaps expanding your gear with a medium telephoto such as a used 70-200 might be a good 'fit' for general purpose work for you. Maybe not. Maybe try out some macro extension tubes. You already know the &#8216;drill&#8217; as a college freshman&#8230;perhaps after taking one or two courses in what you &#8211;thought- you wanted to major in, something turned out far more to your liking. What started as an elective for me turned into my major (and a 40+ year career) 2 semesters later. Fortunately, neither I nor my parents had to spend an arm and a leg to find out what worked best for me.

One area also not discussed previously is your post-processing skills. While shooting everything in JPG format often produces decent results right out of the camera, shooting in RAW and learning one or more post processing editors such as Lightroom, or even GIMP and learning what can be done after the picture has been taken is another &#8211;serious- learning curve project. Add to that, various special effects that can be applied during post processing, and maybe that will steer you more towards a &#8216;most of my shooting&#8217; endeavors.

I&#8217;m not saying &#8220;take one subject area&#8230;perhaps landscape, and shoot only that for the next 3 years&#8221;. But, like college courses, don&#8217;t be afraid to experiment or dabble in a number of photography subject areas and see what you enjoy the most. While it would be nice to put a few dollars in your pocket every now and then, but don&#8217;t expect anything until your work is seen and appreciated by those willing to pay. In my estimation, 3 months is far too early/too soon to decide on spending big bucks on something that in 6 months or a year from now you get frustrated and put the whole shooting match away.

Some fatherly advice. Take it as you wish


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## kathyt (Aug 27, 2013)

AceCo55 said:


> kathythorson said:
> 
> 
> > Just post some images and let us get an idea of the level you are at right now. We can then help you move foward from there. What do you enjoy shooting the most? Are you portfolio building right now for free? What have you been shooting? We need a starting point here.
> ...


This is the last post I am making on this thread, but skill level is COMPLETELY relevant when asking what jobs could possible be  done in 2-4 hours! If you are advanced it might take you 30 minutes to complete an assignment whereas it might take a beginner 2 hours to complete the same assignment. What does the OP WANT to shoot?


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## AceCo55 (Aug 27, 2013)

kathythorson said:


> AceCo55 said:
> 
> 
> > kathythorson said:
> ...



His skill level is TOTALLY IRRELEVANT to what kind of jobs can be done in 2-4 hours. He just wants some idea of what photographic genres exist that CAN be do in this time frame. So generally exclude weddings. Seniors photos would be possible. Some sports yes, some no.

Look, I don't know the OP / not related /never met .... but so many replies to his request are just irrelevant. It almost seems there is a formula for answering questions from people starting out. You're not ready / got insurance, CODB, business plan / prices are too low and you are going to cause the fall of the Western Hemisphere / then it's show us your photos ... which invariably leads to a rabid assessment that you are not ready blah, blah blah.


> I know I'm 'late to the party', but I'll add my 2-cents worth, anyway.


 bratkinson, your post fits this classic and somewhat predictable response. You spent all your time telling the OP to look at his skill, etc etc and did not address the OP's question at all.

The OP is asking a specific question. What types of photographic work  can be done in a 2-4 hour time frame and doesn't require a regular  commitment?

Yes I know you can't tell others what they should write ..... but maybe just think about what the OP is looking for, back off on the pre-judgement and the standard/typical grilling about stuff you have a burning desire to get off your collective chests.
As far as I can tell a whole bunch of responses are not from full time pros but "part timers" who want to give the impression that they are pros.
And don't spin me the yarn "as soon as you start charging you are a pro". I don't buy it and in some countries that definitely does NOT make you a pro.

Apologies to the OP - hope you get the info you are looking for.


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## amolitor (Aug 27, 2013)

When Western Civilization collapses, you're going to be sorry, AceCo55.


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## AceCo55 (Aug 28, 2013)

amolitor said:


> When Western Civilization collapses, you're going to be sorry, AceCo55.



I image you will be right!!  

Save this sorry soul!!  :hail: :hail:


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## imagemaker46 (Aug 28, 2013)

Basically anything can be shot in 2-4 hours, it may all look like crap if the photographer has no skills, or it may look great if the photographer is skilled.  The skills and experience of the Op does, in fact. matter.  I could point my camera out the window and bang off 7000 frames, they would probably look like crap and all the same, 7000 frames doesn't prove anything about my skills, it just proves that I can point a camera.

As I said before, just enjoy photography, take it slowly, learn all you can, what's the rush? It's not like there won't be another 10 million photographers on the market looking to do the same thing every few months, oh wait, I could be wrong about that.:er:


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## pixmedic (Aug 28, 2013)

AceCo55 said:


> kathythorson said:
> 
> 
> > AceCo55 said:
> ...



actually...Kathy is right. 
like, REALLY right. 
I understand the OP's question in the literal sense of what "technically" can be done in that time frame... 
unfortunately though, its not really a realistic question because the answer is not as simple as that. 
some people work faster than others. some people take longer to set up. There are a lot of other factors as well like location, and equipment needs. OCF -vs- natural light. a LOT of things can affect time frames besides skill level.
a "technical" answer would not likely be nearly as helpful to the OP as an answer based on their actual skill level, what they want to shoot, and what they are equipped to shoot (or willing to buy). 
some photographic jobs can be done in a few  hours, like senior portraits, engagement shoots, maternity, newborn, boudoir...portrait type shoots excluding event stuff with longer set times like weddings or party's. 
however...when someone gets on and asks about time frames for shooting jobs and the response is from people experienced in actually DOING those jobs, the times they are quoting are based on already knowing HOW to do them and already having the equipment to do them.  when you factor in having to "figure things out" on the job, or do a bunch of trial and error during a shoot to try to compensate for less than ideal equipment, this can easily double or triple the time it would normally take an experienced person. 

A photographers skill is absolutely relevant because if they only have experience shooting landscapes or macro photography, they could easily take as much time figuring out how to set up proper lighting for portraits as the actual shooting of it. what might take an experienced portrait photographer an hour to shoot, might take someone inexperienced two or three hours to get decent shots. especially someone not familiar with using OCF.  not to mention skill level affecting the end result. 

most portrait sessions can easily be done in a few hours or less, as mentioned above. 
this is assuming you know how to photograph people. if this is a skill the OP is already familiar with, then those are the things I would recommend. 
senior portraits are generally the easiest. no babys to work with, and the subject can follow prompts. engagement shoots are good as well, but usually the photographer that is doing the wedding does the engagement session. 

so, I suppose my answer overall would be to go with basic portraits. get a stand and some backdrops, a few flashes you can set up off camera, and you should be able to knock out a portrait session in an hour or so if everything is basically set up and ready to go when the client arrives.


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## imagemaker46 (Aug 29, 2013)

As I mentioned anything can be shot in a 2-4 hour time frame, people prove it all the time.  There is a lot of very poor photography being done at all levels, and much of it has been shot in less than an hour, most of it is portraits, and sadly it is being accepted as ok to charge for.  I shot my sons wedding last week in around 90 minutes, there were no elaborate setups, they just wanted good fun pictures and the usual "wedding" pictures.  My skill and experience level was far more advanced than the Op, so yes it is all relevant, unless of course the client doesn't really care about the quality of the photographs.  But then who knows, maybe the Op is a quick learner and has acquired skills quickly.  There was nothing wrong with asking to see some sample of his work, being able to offer solid advice or tips is easier if we know what the Op can do with a camera, and after 7000 frames, there should be a few images good enough to post.  

There ahs been a lot of solid advice and comments on this thread, and there have been some "haven't got a clue" comments, both are valuable as opinions, some are just more helpful than others.


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## gsgary (Aug 29, 2013)

Mind you dont dip your toes in that much that it goes over your head


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## AceCo55 (Aug 29, 2013)

I think we will continue to differ in our opinions. The OP asked a specific question and many here wanted to answer what they think his question should have been. And in order to answer THAT question they want to see where he is at photographically.
The OP tried a number of times to spell out what he was information he was looking for, and for the most part we got the responses that dealt a different situation the respondents wanted.
The "club" continues to be strong and vibrant and supportive (of the "right" response). Almost "Pavlovian" me thinks.


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## imagemaker46 (Aug 29, 2013)

I think asking to see at what point his 7000 images have gotten him is a reasonable question?  He wants to know what area of photography he can shoot that only requires 2-4 hours and no serious commitment. He has all of 7000 images under his belt, to me that says he isn't even close to being ready for any shoots, he could go out and shoot a portrait in 30 seconds if he has a true understanding of light and how to pose. Or he could go out and spend 2 hours trying to figure out how to shoot.

I really don't understand the reasoning behind saying "his skill level isn't important" If he's going to be taking money, he had better have a serious commitment to photography.  If all of his 7000 images have been of trees, flowers, sunsets and bark, which require beginner skills to shoot, then how is telling him to go out and shoot portraits any help, if he doesn't have the knowledge or skills to do it?


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## kathyt (Aug 29, 2013)

Some sessions that could be done in 2-4 hours:
seniors
newborns
weddings-ceremony or just reception. 
engagement
maternity
macro 
sports
events
Quinceaneras
children
Boudoir
landscape
real estate photography

Hope this helps.


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## imagemaker46 (Aug 29, 2013)

kathythorson said:


> Some sessions that could be done in 2-4 hours:
> seniors
> newborns
> weddings-ceremony or just reception.
> ...



Basically anything can be done in 2-4 hours.


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## kathyt (Aug 29, 2013)

imagemaker46 said:


> kathythorson said:
> 
> 
> > Some sessions that could be done in 2-4 hours:
> ...


Yeah, that was my point.


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## imagemaker46 (Aug 29, 2013)

I agree 100%, and this is why the skill level of the Op enters into this thread.


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## amolitor (Aug 29, 2013)

Actually I disagree about "skill level"

The OP, who is probably long gone, seems to have a basic grasp of the rough technical details. It's not the _traditional_ approach, but it would certainly be an _efficient_ approach to select a niche, let's say baby portraits, and then:


Acquire the right set of equipment
Devote some serious effort to learning how to do that one thing
Devote some more serious effort to practicing it

Many niches can be learned, I submit, in a handful of hours of serious work. You learn a handful of idioms, the common errors, and how to evaluate the result to see if it is good enough. If you're starting out with the right gear already in hand, you cut out a huge area of wasted hours. If you start with a good narrow niche, you can focus in on what's important.

Can you learn to shoot "weddings" in a couple hours? Nope. "sports?" Nope. "Corporate headshots" -- yes, easily. "Baby portraits" -- yeah, pretty much. How much training does LifeTouch give their operators? And how much of that is operational stuff having to do with specifics of the business model? I'm gonna guess "not much" and "quite a bit" respectively. And they can crap out excellent examples of a very very particular thing all day long.

This sort of approach is offensive to some people, who have spent years perfecting their craft or whatever. Those people feel that making statements like this is equivalent to saying that they wasted those years. It's not, but the distinction is a bit subtle. That's a shame, but I'm not going to parse out the distinctions for you.


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## PaulWog (Aug 29, 2013)

amolitor said:


> Actually I disagree about "skill level"
> 
> The OP, who is probably long gone, seems to have a basic grasp of the rough technical details. It's not the _traditional_ approach, but it would certainly be an _efficient_ approach to select a niche, let's say baby portraits, and then:
> 
> ...



I distanced myself from the thread, and I'm maintaining a distance. I'm fully aware of the cautions that people are trying to give me... they forget that I know I have a lack of knowledge, and I know I need to learn more (however they also are considering me to be a complete blunder of a photographer... I am actually quite competent, albeit not at a professional level).

You've said exactly what I wanted to get at, and I appreciate that you worded it out in that way. That's the exact reason why I'm looking at a specific job: I already know the gear I need to acquire for most jobs, and I know the skills I need to develop, but I want to set my sites earlier on at the type of photography that I could do more on a casual basis. By looking at what I could focus on right now, I can think about it, and start deciding if it suits me while I continue to shoot and learn. When the time comes closer to being serious about it, I can pick up on specific cookie-cutter poses/positions/lighting positions, volunteer my services for a little bit for friends/what-not (ex. if it's baby or children shots), and work from there. If I proceed forward and simply develop my skills across the board (which I will be doing anyway), and I don't focus on something, it will take much longer to dip my foot into paid territory.

My skills right now are irrelevant. If I were capable of doing wedding photography, I'd be capable of doing just about any casual gig, and there wouldn't be a question to ask. I'm not looking to start out with wedding gigs. I am simply looking to set my sights on something, and as I continue learning, to keep researching and learning and shooting the particular type of work I want to start out with. I'm not stupid: I'll know when I'm ready to start putting myself out there for paid work. If I become disinterested in the particular area of photography that I'm focusing in, I'll take a look at something else (though it's photography in general that I'm interested in). In the future, once (and if) I get into getting paid for a specific type of work, I'll then start looking at rounding out my skills and branching from there... but right now, that too is not relevant.


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## imagemaker46 (Aug 29, 2013)

Just a quick question though, what area of photography have to shot the 7000 frames on?  The 7000 is really a meaningless number, as you have stated you are already quite competent, but not at a professional level. This has come in a very short time, which is why some people have been mentioning your skill level/posting a few samples of your work/etc.  As you were looking for some advice and input, these questions weren't out of line.  There are a lot of people that shoot well past the 7000 image mark and never get any better.  I mentioned earlier, I could point my camera out the window and bang off 7000 images in less than a day, but it won't get me any better.


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## jwbryson1 (Aug 29, 2013)

Here we go again...  :er:

IBTL!!


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## imagemaker46 (Aug 29, 2013)

Just lock the thread, it seems to be the trend these days.  Ask a simple question, look for more information and someone decides that the request will cause a collapse of the entire forum.


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## kathyt (Aug 29, 2013)

My short answer is shoot what you have been shooting and what you enjoy. End of story.


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## Derrel (Aug 29, 2013)

NO toe-dipping allowed! ONLY diving from the high board allowed! (sign I found in the TPF broom closet.)


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## Dwayn (Sep 5, 2013)

Be imaginative and shoot what you like.but i think if you can work under a experienced photographer then it will help you the most.

Thank you.


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## MalcolmDuffy (Oct 30, 2013)

kathythorson said:


> My short answer is shoot what you have been shooting and what you enjoy. End of story.



I've enjoyed this thread and I couldn't agree more kathythorson. Good luck going forward PaulWog.I was fortunate to gain some experience with a seasoned photographer and I learnt so much from it. I was just kind of tagging along but I met other photographers that way too and picked up a few jobs here and there where people couldn't cover them. Do as many different jobs as fast as you can just to gain the experience and things will probably open up that way for you.


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## TheFantasticG (Oct 30, 2013)

I've been shooting bugs for over two years now, but I still don't feel that I can shoot people.... So what I do is I just imagine them as giant mantids and suddenly everything becomes much easier. I'll be making money hands-over-claws before I know it!

In before the lock...


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## robbins.photo (Oct 30, 2013)

Light Guru said:


> PaulWog said:
> 
> 
> > What I'm wondering is this: What's a good way to dip my foot into getting into photography part-time (and paid)? I'm a full-time University student (23 years old), and I'd love to do a little photography for money, even if it's only one shoot every month or two. I don't exactly want to start a thriving business on the get-go.
> ...



Shooting weddings held on sporty landscapes.  Hmm.. I like it!  lol


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## sashbar (Oct 30, 2013)

Post your 3 best photos here, so we could have some reference point, the photos that you think could possibly sell. 3 months and 7000 shots does not say anything at all. What are you best 3 out of 7000 ?


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## robbins.photo (Oct 30, 2013)

TheFantasticG said:


> I've been shooting bugs for over two years now, but I still don't feel that I can shoot people.... So what I do is I just imagine them as giant mantids and suddenly everything becomes much easier. I'll be making money hands-over-claws before I know it!
> 
> In before the lock...



Perhaps you should start by shooting people who really bug other people.  Politicians and Lawyers come to mind almost immediately.  Or you could really clean up at one of those job fairs for outbound telemarketers.  Just a thought.. lol

But like you shooting people really isn't my forte - I'm am amatuer wildlife photographer and probably always will be.  Funny thing is though, I'm just fine with that.  I don't have any aspirations of turning pro.  Don't get me wrong, I have a tremendous respect level for folks who do make a go of it selling photos - but honestly I'm far to lazy and am far to attached to the notion of having a regular paycheck to ever go down that road.


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## MalcolmDuffy (Nov 12, 2013)

robbins.photo said:


> Light Guru said:
> 
> 
> > PaulWog said:
> ...



Well, good luck with that... Shooting weddings is something I would not venture, especially as a beginner. Too much stress. You don't know if you can make people happy and if they will appreciate the end product. You put your heart and sould in a project but you are not sure about the feedback. On the other hand, it may suit you, if you are adventurous enough.


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## Hrgrace21 (Dec 5, 2013)

I am in the same boat (well...kinda) I jumped in and started a business. Which in the short time has done fairly well, with a few hiccups. I however also have a degree in Advertising so that has helped with my business quite a bit too. 

I have the same camera you do, except I have invested in some lenses (which help with image quality a bit.) Correct me if Im wrong here, but the D5200 is a crop sensor and ISO performance leaves a bit to be desired. When I get the funds I will be upgrading to a better camera (and all new lenses because its a crop) but you can do great work with this camera. Invest in some studio lights, backdrop frame, reflector board, and most importantly EDUCATION. That has been the one saving grace to my business, without it all my research on the internet does me no real good. I took the Professional Photography Course through the New York Institute of Photography and they have provided some essential tools (lighting) and business information. They step you through each type of photography and give you assignments so you have good direction. The course cost less then my camera so it is very doable.


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## robbins.photo (Dec 5, 2013)

Hrgrace21 said:


> I am in the same boat (well...kinda) I jumped in and started a business. Which in the short time has done fairly well, with a few hiccups. I however also have a degree in Advertising so that has helped with my business quite a bit too.
> 
> I have the same camera you do, except I have invested in some lenses (which help with image quality a bit.) Correct me if Im wrong here, but the D5200 is a crop sensor and ISO performance leaves a bit to be desired. When I get the funds I will be upgrading to a better camera (and all new lenses because its a crop) but you can do great work with this camera. Invest in some studio lights, backdrop frame, reflector board, and most importantly EDUCATION. That has been the one saving grace to my business, without it all my research on the internet does me no real good. I took the Professional Photography Course through the New York Institute of Photography and they have provided some essential tools (lighting) and business information. They step you through each type of photography and give you assignments so you have good direction. The course cost less then my camera so it is very doable.



As far as ISO performance you won't do much better than the D5200 at least with a crop sensor.  You can get a little better high ISO/low noise out of the 7x series, the 7000 and 7100, after that if you want better you need to go full frame.


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## robbins.photo (Dec 5, 2013)

MalcolmDuffy said:


> robbins.photo said:
> 
> 
> > Light Guru said:
> ...



I shot one wedding back in the stone age when I had some high end 35 mm equipment, and the only reason I did it was that the couples were friends of a friend (yes, I got drug to the wedding) and the pro they hired was a no show.  So I more or less got roped into it.  So i've shot 1 wedding and would never, ever consider doing it for a living.  Just not my thing, at all.

I love photography - as a hobby.  I like going out and taking pictures that I want to take when I feel like taking them.  Turn it into a business?  I have no doubt that all the joy would go out of it for me right there.  So no, no aspirations of ever going pro, and if I ever did Wedding photography would be the very last thing on the list.  Right below "crime scene" I think.. lol


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