# Leica



## J.Kendall (Mar 2, 2010)

So I've been looking at getting a Leica recently, but I'm not real sure which one to get? Anyone care to enlighten me on which ones are better or worse? Any feedback would be awesome.


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## Derrel (Mar 2, 2010)

You might want to drop by this web site and this page and get an overview of the entire rangefinder "scene"  Classic Camera Profiles

We have a resident Leica expert here, from New Jersey.

Do you want a film Leica, or a digital M-series? Your choice in film models could be reasonably wide. If I were to buy a Leica today, I'd buy the digital M9 model, but that's just me. Other people really groove on the film Leica experience.


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## J.Kendall (Mar 2, 2010)

I'm looking for a film camera. My problem is that there are just so many different models that they have for film, that I don't really know which one to choose.


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## Mike_E (Mar 2, 2010)

As always, look for lenses and then cameras to fit them.


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## Battou (Mar 2, 2010)

There are twice as many preferences for cameras than camera bodies, No one can tell you what camera to get or what one is better than the other. All I can tell you is if you are getting a Leica, make sure it's real.


I am rather fond of my Leica IIIf BS, I love the way it feels in my hands. I need to look into a new lens for it though as mine is foging


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## compur (Mar 2, 2010)

J.Kendall said:


> I'm looking for a film camera. My problem is that there are just so many different models that they have for film, that I don't really know which one to choose.



A lot would depend on how much you'd like to spend.


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## Mitica100 (Mar 2, 2010)

I would first research the prices realized on eBay, just to have a ball park figure of what to expect. A good user Screw Mount Leica can take you from $300 to $900 depending on the model and condition. You want one that has been CLA'd (cleaned, lubed and adjusted) as opposed to one that needs it. A good CLA will cost you more. 

The Screw Mount Leicas will cost you less than the M series (also known as Bayonet Mount). The cheapest SM Leica you can find is a model IIIc, which was made around the WWII with less quality than its predecessors. I have a IIIa from 1934 that I still use and it's my favorite 35mm film camera. The spacing between frames on film is absolutely the same no matter what. Shutter is consistent and very responsive. The IIIf  series are more expensive, as is the IIIg. Lens wise, look for at least a 50mm Summitar (collapsible is ok), the Summar is a lesser quality and softer lens. That would cost you extra $250 or so. Best bet would be looking at a package deal, camera+lens. Check the lenses very well for they are very soft and can have cleaning marks. Light cleaning marks are acceptable, as is light haze or dust particles. Get also a lens shade, a must in the fight against flare. Coated lenses are better but not absolutely necessary if you use your lens shade judiciously. If you're in the market for a more serious 35mm Leica, then you might consider the M (Bayonet rangefinder) or the R (Reflex or SLR) series. I also shoot with an M3 DS (double stroke) Leica and it is nothing but pure Nirvana working with it.

Before you commit, research, research, research...

PM if you have questions.


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## usayit (Mar 3, 2010)

I think for most people looking to get into their first Leica film camera, the earlier M's are probably best suited.  The most important decision is what focal length lenses you will be using as that will determine which framelines are necessary which ultimately leads to which model.

The guide on Stephen Gandy's website is probably a good start:

Leica M Guide
I like my M3 but if you plan on shooting with 35mm you are better off with the M2.


If you go screwmount, I think the Canon Rangefinders will be a better choice... although I always want a Leica screwmount to add to my collection.


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## J.Kendall (Mar 3, 2010)

Well I found a few on ebay yesterday, must be gone today, but they were all marked with german ww2 stampings (kriegsmarine, luftwaffe, panzerkampf). Theres a few russian copies on there now too.

Edit: Found the luftwaffe one again
http://cgi.ebay.com/Leica-II-D-Luft...ViewItemQQptZFilm_Cameras?hash=item5ad77e71a7


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## henkelphoto (Mar 3, 2010)

The bayonet mount "M" series are probably your best bet for your first Leica. The earlier models make you use the rangefinder window first to focus then you need to switch to the viewfinder window to frame your subject. That's kind of a problem if you've never used one before. Also, the III series is a screw mount. If you get any lenses other than a 50 mm you will have to get an viewfinder that fits in the hot shoe. 

The m series allows you to focus and view in the same viewfinder window. Also, the m2 has framing brackets for 35, 50, 90mm lenses, while the m3 has framing brackets for 50, 90 and 135mm lenses. The m3 body will have either a double stroke or single stroke film advance, depending on the date of manufacture. No sure if the m2 is a double stroke or not. 

If you have the money, the m4 is a great camera. It has framing brackets for 35, 50, 90 and 135mm and also has an in-camera meter. 

Actually, Leica bodies are not all that expensive, but the lenses are. Reason is that you can use the bayonet lenses on any Leica m series made, including the m9. Screw-mount lenses can be very reasonable and Leica made a mount adaptor that will allow the use of the older lenses on newer bodies. 

I just happened to pick up a very nice IIIf on ebay. Price was 499 with a Summitar collapsible 50mm. The camera is in perfect shape. There were many, many Leicas bought by professionals (doctors, lawyers, etc) simply because of the name and they were hardly used. That means there are some incredibly beautiful Leicas available.


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## Mike_E (Mar 3, 2010)

Here's a thought, why not get a Russian copy and see how you like it?  Yes the Leica is going to be a much better camera but as to the actual experience of turning knobs and general  experience a copy should get you a ballpark idea of whether or not a screw mount or bayonet mount is the way to go.  and you don't have to give up an arm to find out.

There was a guy on ebay from the old eastern block (I forget exactly where) that was selling Russian range finders that were supposedly either in good shape or he had gone through for a good price, try looking him up.


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## compur (Mar 3, 2010)

J.Kendall said:


> Well I found a few on ebay yesterday, must be gone today, but they were all marked with german ww2 stampings (kriegsmarine, luftwaffe, panzerkampf). Theres a few russian copies on there now too.
> 
> Edit: Found the luftwaffe one again
> Leica II D Luftwaffe Z copy, Gold, in leather case! - eBay (item 390162444711 end time Mar-04-10 03:15:57 PST)



That's a counterfeit made in Russia/Ukraine as are most showing "German" 
WWII markings.

The seller calls it a "Leica copy" which is literally true but is not what is
usually meant by that term within Leica collecting circles.  A true Leica
copy is a camera that is designed to be very similar to a Leica but it has
the real manufacturer's name on it.  A copy with the Leica name is just a 
fake or counterfeit.  Most of these were made in Russia/Ukraine.


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## Mike_E (Mar 3, 2010)

This has turned into an interesting subject..
Leica Copies


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## usayit (Mar 3, 2010)

henkelphoto said:


> If you have the money, the m4 is a great camera. It has framing brackets for 35, 50, 90 and 135mm and also has an in-camera meter.



No in-camera meter in the M4 nor the M4-P.  The first was the less favorable M5 which recently have gone up in value as people recognized its importance.  Never-the-less, the M4 does have a better film loading mechanism then prior bodies.    So much so that some M3's I've seen have been converted to the M4 style of film loading.  

Many don't find the lack of in camera metering a problem (especially street shooters) as many prefer to be able to determine exposure without having to bring the camera to eye-level.  I highly recommend the Voigtlander VC II meter or a handheld (Mine is Sekonic 308 which fits in a cell phone holster on my belt).  Determine exposure and eye things from there on....  film is much more "kind" than digital in this respect... especially b&w.  

If in-camera metering is preferred, you going to have to spend a bit more for either an M6 or M7.  Both are going to cost a bit more.  The M6 being in both classic and TTL versions.  Get the later.. it has a better/brighter lines and rangefinder patch.  (although I'm able to "live" with mine).  

If you are trying to get into rangefinders (with interchangeable lenses), also consider the Voigtlander Bessas that also use Leica M-mount (or LTM).  Heck, Contax rangefinders are going really cheap these days because the lack of an upgrade path (non-existent company).  One of my all time favorite rangefinders (sadly not part of my collection) is the Hexar RF also in M-mount but with far more advanced features ala Japanese engineering.  

If the idea is to shoot with Leica, stick with the Leica M3 or M2 (again framelines).  Get it CLA'd and/or fixed.  They are classics with high quality and will last for generations.  Some would say that Leica never made a better camera afterwards.  


As for LTM, beware of copies...   Some are good.. some are bad...  quality control is very limited.


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## Battou (Mar 3, 2010)

J.Kendall said:


> Well I found a few on ebay yesterday, must be gone today, but they were all marked with german ww2 stampings (kriegsmarine, luftwaffe, panzerkampf). Theres a few russian copies on there now too.
> 
> Edit: Found the luftwaffe one again
> Leica II D Luftwaffe Z copy, Gold, in leather case! - eBay (item 390162444711 end time Mar-04-10 03:15:57 PST)



compur is right on the money, Look at the RF housing, you see how the center box in front comes all the way to the top? This is indicitive of a fake, It's not the only tell tale sign but the most prevalent as it appears almost all Leica Knockoffs sold as Leicas (Most commonly Fed and Zorki models). A true Leica II looks like this one here http://leitzmuseum.org/CameraMakes/Leica/1938-II-D-2-1.jpg. Many of the copies shown in Mike_E's post are copies but they generally sell under their own nameplate such as the Minolta 35, Yashica YF, Yashica YE, Canon  II and whatnot.


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## Mitica100 (Mar 3, 2010)

Leica never allowed the stamping of a Swastika on their cameras in production. Sometimes you will see a scarce Leica sporting a Nazi symbol added post production. Leica was known to protect its own workers, many of them Jews which were later sent on a train out of Germany, just before the persecution. These Jewish Leica workers were sent to NY where they formed another 'branch' of the Leitz factory. Other 'branches' were added later in Canada and Portugal.

The fakes you see are made, as the above posters mentioned, in Ukraine. If money is a problem, then I would suggest not getting a fake Leica but a Russian Zorkii. Then you will get the feel for its action, rangefinder, shutter and all. Much cheaper that way. And there are some decent Russian lenses as well to be found.


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## compur (Mar 3, 2010)

I was at a swap meet early one morning when a seller pulled up and opened
his van and said he had a "bunch of Leicas" to sell for only $200 a piece.

I watched as he dug out about half a dozen cameras in cases to show me.  At 
that moment a rather rude fellow muscled his way in front of me and grabbed 
all the cameras for himself.  I saw as he opened the cases that they were 
obvious fakes (like the "Luftwaffe Leica" on eBay linked to above) and I 
walked off. A few minutes later I saw the rude guy with the cameras he'd bought
for $200/each.  He thought he'd struck gold but in reality he'd be lucky to get 
50 bucks each for them.  I told him they were fakes and only worth maybe $50 
but it was too late -- he'd already bought them and he thought I was trying to 
scam him and he walked away in a huff clutching his cameras.


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## usayit (Mar 3, 2010)

Leica Freedom Train - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Interesting story that wasn't told until many of those involved had passed away...


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## henkelphoto (Mar 3, 2010)

usayit, 

  You're right about the m4 not having a meter. I had a friend who bought an m4-p back about 1980 or so and I could have sworn that it had a meter in it, but I guess I just imagined it. I've tried to buy the camera off of him, but he won't sell it :-(

Jerry


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## compur (Mar 3, 2010)

The M5 was first with TTL meter.


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## bhop (Mar 6, 2010)

I was originally looking at an M2 (vs M3 because of the 35mm frame lines) or M4-2 based on price, but I decided I wanted a meter, so I spent a little more and ended up with an M6 classic.  No regrets whatsoever.  I love this camera.  It's also got the quick loading system that the earlier M's lack, so that's a plus.


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## Petraio Prime (May 28, 2010)

J.Kendall said:


> So I've been looking at getting a Leica recently, but I'm not real sure which one to get? Anyone care to enlighten me on which ones are better or worse? Any feedback would be awesome.



Any M6 is good place to start, if you want a rangefinder...though I always liked the M5.


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