# But I'm not a pro?



## TallDude

My son was performing at a Large Symphony Hall. We bought tickets to see him. I brought my camera (7d with my Sigma 100-400) to get some close-ups. Wish I had 70-200 2.8 for that. As we passed through the security check point, I put my camera on the table. He looked at it and asked me if I was a professional photographer? I said "No, I'm just coming to see my son and some of his friends 


 

 play in the high school district honor orchestra. It's not a professional venue. What's the problem?" He said it's the size of my lens. He paused a moment, then said Go ahead, it's okay? I always stand in the wings up against a wall, and only snap the shutter when the music is loud enough to mask the noise. There was one professional photographer there who had some lanyard around his neck, along with a couple of cameras. He went out of his way to let me know that he was going to be walking by me at times? It was odd the way he said it? I'm 6'7 and 245 lbs, so most people think twice about giving me attitude. Maybe he had some sort of exclusive rights to be there? I don't know. I've shot a lot of high school sports, but I'm old friends with the athletic director so maybe I would need permission shooting at other schools?


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## SquarePeg

Maybe he was just letting you know he wouldn’t be able to pay attention to staying out of your shot if it meant missing a shot he needed since he probably had a shot list or plan.


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## SquarePeg

As for security- they were probably concerned more about you obstructing someone else’s view than anything else.


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## Designer

IMO: No, they probably had an agreement with some professional photographer to share in the sales revenue from the pro, which is why the gate person was evaluating your equipment.  They don't want you to offer your shots for sale.  The pro wanted to make sure you understood you were subservient to his efforts.


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## TallDude

I have no problem letting people do their job. The photography profession, I completely respect. I have a few friends who are pros, and I always pay them for their services. I looked at the Concert Hall rules and found this:

_*Can I take pictures during the show?*
You may take pictures in the lobbies of all theaters.  However, due to copyright laws, there is no picture taking or video recording allowed inside the theaters during a performance._

-My 100-400 probably wouldn't work to well in the lobby That may be why the security person was questioning my camera, but saw my side of the story. It's a school event. 

_*What items are prohibited at the venues?*
The following is a partial list of items that are prohibited. This list is subject to change. Please contact the Center for event specific policies and information._

_Weapons, pepper spray/mace, flares, fireworks_
_Food, beverage*, alcohol, cans, bottles, flasks, coolers, drugs, illegal substances_
_Pamphlets, product samples_
_Skateboards, rollerblades, bicycles, helmets, chairs, beach balls_
_Laptop/Tablet computers, 2-way radios, laser pointers_
_Balloons, permanent markers, spray paint_
_Noise making devices: air horns, drums, whistles_
_Professional Recording Devices: audio or video_
_Bags (backpacks, large bags, suitcases, luggage)_
_Signs/Flags/Banners/Posters_
_Animals (with the exception of trained service animals and service animals in training for Patrons with disabilities)_
_Drones, Unmanned Aerial Vehicles_
_*The only exception is unopened plastic water bottle one liter or smaller. *Plastic water containers (i.e. Nalgene bottles) are permitted provided they are emptied of contents prior to entry. Metal and glass containers (i.e. certain Hydroflasks and Yeti's) are not permitted.*_

-Doesn't mention Still Photos


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## TallDude

The more I think about it, the performer more than likely has exclusive media recording rights written into all their contracts. In this case, the school district rented out the Concert Hall and probably hired the photographer to shoot the performance.


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## tirediron

Designer said:


> IMO: No, they probably had an agreement with some professional photographer to share in the sales revenue from the pro, which is why the gate person was evaluating your equipment.  They don't want you to offer your shots for sale.  The pro wanted to make sure you understood you were subservient to his efforts.


I find it difficult to believe there'd be any significant sales revenue from a high-school concert.


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## TallDude

I just ran some numbers and they are big. This was the District Honor Orchestra and Honor Choir which is comprised of the best students from all the middle schools and high schools in the district. It's the 8th largest district in the state and 78th in the country. We paid $60. each for our seats. The cheapest seat was $40. There were some $100. seats. It was sold out at the capacity of 1,700. x average ticket $50. ? = $ 85,000. and no performers to pay.....


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## Derrel

Gorgeous venue!


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## TallDude

This was a big deal for my son. They usually perform in their high school gym. He was so impressed with the Hall and behind the scenes he couldn't stop talking about it. It was a great experience, and he was first chair. This is my favorite photo. While some of the younger percussionist were playing, he was taking a break.


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## RVT1K

Although the situation was quite different, I was asked the same question once. 

I was at the MotoGP race that was being held at Indy and looking to get shots from the action on the track. 

Based on the schedule, lighting, available viewing "ports" through the fence, and wanting to get shots of the bikes cranked over in a turn, I picked a particular spot and parked my butt there at what must have been an hour before the next session started so I would be up front and have an unobstructed view. 

I stood there for hours getting shots of all the classes. At some point someone approached me and said something like "I passed by a couple of hours ago and you were in the same spot, are you a pro?" 

Nope. Just dedicated.


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## Grandpa Ron

It does not surprise me that security thought you were a Pro. Almost all the cameras they see are smart phones or those small sized cameras like my wife carries in her purse.

These days, one might expect anything out of the norm, to prompt a question or two from security. 

Judging from the photos, the effort was worth a few questions. Good photos make good memories.


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## ac12

The other issue is distracting the audience.

The sound of a dSLR depending on model can be noisy.  I had this issue at the local high school, when a parent came up to us and complained about the camera noise.
And if many shots are taken at one, the rapid sequence of shutter sound can also be distracting. 
Since I can't do anything about the shutter itself, my instruction to the kids is, "single shots, spaced FAR apart in time."

I have since switched to a mirrorless, SILENT  

Also the BIG lens can be visually distracting and a logistical issue.
This is where the white/gray Canon lens is at a disadvantage, it attracts attention.  Unless covered with a black lens cover.
If used in the seat, you can imagine how far forward the lens will project, into the head of the person in the row in front of you.  And thus a concern for the theater people.
As you do, I normally stand in the back or on the side, so the size/length of the lens is not an issue for me.

The local high school hires a photographer to take the concert pics, and he sells them.
So obviously he does not want competition, and they do announce, no photography.
But that does not seem to stop the parents with video cameras.


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## Grandpa Ron

"No cameras allowed" is a oxymoron, That is unless you are going to ban every cell phone.  

Also "no photos allowed" obviously does not apply to grandmother's and their grandkids. (I think that may be in the bible some where. At least that is the contemporary attitude).

And yes, you most likely are disturbing the other parents, no matter how discrete you try to me.  About the only thing one can do is hold the disruption to a minimum.


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## 480sparky

Anyone in 'security' who claims to be able to identify a 'professional photographer' based on their equipment should be charged with impersonating a police officer.


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## ac12

I've seen high school parents taking pic of their kids with gear that would make a pro envious.
Worse when their kids carry it around at a sport game.  That freaked me out.  A HS kid carrying almost $10k of camera gear 
But then look at the student parking lot; Tesla, BMW, Mercedes, etc.
Some of these parents have MONEY.

So I agree.  Pro gear does NOT mean you are a pro.


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## Original katomi

The good side of this is you got photos of the event. I had i pro wedding photographer cop a strop because I was photographing a friends wedding. 
Instead of asking if I could move, he tried telling me I could not photograph  at the wedding he bumped me a few times as I was taking photos. At the time I said and did nothing did not want to spoil friends big day.
Months later I was doing a three church set of pics and he turned up. Same hassle, well until I made it clear that this time I was not going to put up with being bullied...


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## Sharpshooterr

ac12 said:


> I've seen high school parents taking pic of their kids with gear that would make a pro envious.
> So I agree.  Pro gear does NOT mean you are a pro.



Yes, I'm sure this happens but I'll be honest, I've never seen it!
As part of one of my jobs(I'm involved in education) I attend a lot of school events at all levels, from sports to band reviews and in the 8 years I've been involved I have never seen a parent or a student with what I would consider pro gear.
Yes I've seen things like a a Canon 6D or something but rarely with an L lens.
I also attend at least 10 graduations every year and can tell you I've NEVER seen the people taking the Grad receiving their diploma pics using pro gear!!
Maybe in Los Altos Hills or Hillsborough every parent owns an ARRI video camera!!!
SS


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## ac12

Sharpshooterr said:


> ac12 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've seen high school parents taking pic of their kids with gear that would make a pro envious.
> So I agree.  Pro gear does NOT mean you are a pro.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I'm sure this happens but I'll be honest, I've never seen it!
> As part of one of my jobs(I'm involved in education) I attend a lot of school events at all levels, from sports to band reviews and in the 8 years I've been involved I have never seen a parent or a student with what I would consider pro gear.
> Yes I've seen things like a a Canon 6D or something but rarely with an L lens.
> I also attend at least 10 graduations every year and can tell you I've NEVER seen the people taking the Grad receiving their diploma pics using pro gear!!
> Maybe in Los Altos Hills or Hillsborough every parent owns an ARRI video camera!!!
> SS
Click to expand...


I am the volunteer/unpaid yearbook photo advisor at High School in a NOT affluent city, in comparison to Atherton, Los Altos Hills, Woodside or Hillborough.

When I saw those cameras/lenses, I was surprised.  Usually at the various sport games.  
At graduation, I am up front, so I cannot see what the parents behind me are using.​The yearbook advisor told me, just look at the student parking lot:  BMW, Mercedes, Tesla, etc.  Some of the kids are driving cars way more expensive than mine, and they are teenagers.  Some/many (but not all) of the parents have MONEY.


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## Sharpshooterr

ac12 said:


> Sharpshooterr said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ac12 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've seen high school parents taking pic of their kids with gear that would make a pro envious.
> So I agree.  Pro gear does NOT mean you are a pro.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I'm sure this happens but I'll be honest, I've never seen it!
> As part of one of my jobs(I'm involved in education) I attend a lot of school events at all levels, from sports to band reviews and in the 8 years I've been involved I have never seen a parent or a student with what I would consider pro gear.
> Yes I've seen things like a a Canon 6D or something but rarely with an L lens.
> I also attend at least 10 graduations every year and can tell you I've NEVER seen the people taking the Grad receiving their diploma pics using pro gear!!
> Maybe in Los Altos Hills or Hillsborough every parent owns an ARRI video camera!!!
> SS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am the volunteer/unpaid yearbook photo advisor at High School in a NOT affluent city, in comparison to Atherton, Los Altos Hills, Woodside or Hillborough.
> 
> When I saw those cameras/lenses, I was surprised.  Usually at the various sport games.
> At graduation, I am up front, so I cannot see what the parents behind me are using.​The yearbook advisor told me, just look at the student parking lot:  BMW, Mercedes, Tesla, etc.  Some of the kids are driving cars way more expensive than mine, and they are teenagers.  Some/many (but not all) of the parents have MONEY.
Click to expand...

We have one high school that’s pretty affluent the others are not.
I agree on the parking lots. Compare the student lots to the faculty lots and there can be some pretty nice cars in the student lot.


ac12 said:


> Sharpshooterr said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ac12 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've seen high school parents taking pic of their kids with gear that would make a pro envious.
> So I agree.  Pro gear does NOT mean you are a pro.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I'm sure this happens but I'll be honest, I've never seen it!
> As part of one of my jobs(I'm involved in education) I attend a lot of school events at all levels, from sports to band reviews and in the 8 years I've been involved I have never seen a parent or a student with what I would consider pro gear.
> Yes I've seen things like a a Canon 6D or something but rarely with an L lens.
> I also attend at least 10 graduations every year and can tell you I've NEVER seen the people taking the Grad receiving their diploma pics using pro gear!!
> Maybe in Los Altos Hills or Hillsborough every parent owns an ARRI video camera!!!
> SS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am the volunteer/unpaid yearbook photo advisor at High School in a NOT affluent city, in comparison to Atherton, Los Altos Hills, Woodside or Hillborough.
> 
> When I saw those cameras/lenses, I was surprised.  Usually at the various sport games.
> At graduation, I am up front, so I cannot see what the parents behind me are using.​The yearbook advisor told me, just look at the student parking lot:  BMW, Mercedes, Tesla, etc.  Some of the kids are driving cars way more expensive than mine, and they are teenagers.  Some/many (but not all) of the parents have MONEY.
Click to expand...

Hey I definitely agree with the parking lots. The faculty lots are filled with cars of teachers trying to make a living and the student lots often have way nicer cars than the teachers!
All the kids drive better cars than I do!!! LoL 
I have a customer that has 3 kids at Justin Sienna HS, one of the local parochial schools where tuition is $50K a year per kid!!! Thats$150K just to go to High School! I haven’t seen their cameras! LoL 
SS


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## Braineack

TallDude said:


> It was odd the way he said it? I'm 6'7 and 245 lbs, so most people think twice about giving me attitude.


Rofl. Chill out.


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## TallDude

I was at a wedding last weekend and I was paying attention to the team of photographers shooting it. There were two gals who where using 5D mark4's with power banks and a whole slew of L lenses. As the sun was setting they had this singular 3" round LED mounted on a tall tripod. Maybe 8 or 9 ft high. They moved it around and didn't switch to flashes until after the ceremony and it was totally dark. They seem to cover the event well, but they brought in a drone crew to for that perspective. The buzzing over head was annoying and making it hard to hear what they were saying. The mother of the bribe stood up, turned and looked at the photographer, pointed at the drone, and ran her finger quickly across her neck giving the 'Cut It Now' signal. That was too funny. Even though I'm an amateur, I do pay attention to the setting, available light and think about how I would shoot it. The brides mom did tell us that she' used the photographer before and that she does excellent work. The wedding must have cost $100k plus. They rented a gated mansion on a hill with security guards. 
For now I'm the king of the beach, taking good quality surfing pictures of my friends who are grateful to have them. I that setting, everyone wants to be my friend


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## Original katomi

According to traditional view and dictionary definition 
A pro is someone who earns 100% from there , insert, photography.
Pro, membership of various guilds etc does not always mean they are good at what they do.


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## Space Face

No it doesn't.

Def:

'engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as an amateur.'

I've encountered many 'professionals' who are hopeless at what they do.  They still get paid, therefore they are 'professionals'.


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## Tballphoto

Being a "profesional photographer" is EASILY faked if you take the time, and have the correct lack of morals and an insufficient charecter. 

I have seen quite a few "up coming professional photographers" from EUROPE who have done the simple route and faked their way into photography as a professional. This is what they did. 

1. got camera gear, took some photos. Got prints developed. 

2. rented a small store front and hung prints up on the wall

3. advertised the small "photo exhibit". opened it for a few weekends.  And then following month relocated to a different spot in town. 

4. Get on instagram and twitter. post some photos. Mention their successful exhibits. 

5. Have friends, or create fake accounts, and give praise of the wonderful work in those exhibits. 

6. befriend various people on twitter and instagram  that have 10,000+ followers and start application of their lips to those peoples "bottoms".

6.a  after a time those people with freshly suctioned "bottoms" will usually give nice comments on that persons instagram photos. 

7. kick back, youve become a professional photographer.

Although selling a self published photo book REALLY does increase the speed fo becoming a professional.


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## Sharpshooterr

Tballphoto said:


> Being a "profesional photographer" is EASILY faked if you take the time, and have the correct lack of morals and an insufficient charecter.
> 
> I have seen quite a few "up coming professional photographers" from EUROPE who have done the simple route and faked their way into photography as a professional. This is what they did.
> 
> 1. got camera gear, took some photos. Got prints developed.
> 
> 2. rented a small store front and hung prints up on the wall
> 
> 3. advertised the small "photo exhibit". opened it for a few weekends.  And then following month relocated to a different spot in town.
> 
> 4. Get on instagram and twitter. post some photos. Mention their successful exhibits.
> 
> 5. Have friends, or create fake accounts, and give praise of the wonderful work in those exhibits.
> 
> 6. befriend various people on twitter and instagram  that have 10,000+ followers and start application of their lips to those peoples "bottoms".
> 
> 6.a  after a time those people with freshly suctioned "bottoms" will usually give nice comments on that persons instagram photos.
> 
> 7. kick back, youve become a professional photographer.
> 
> Although selling a self published photo book REALLY does increase the speed fo becoming a professional.



LoL, LoL , LoL...., Tball, I can't laugh loud enough!!!
You're kidding right??? PLEASE tell me your making all of that up?! LoL
And you've seen, "quite a few"...., I''m STILL laughing!
I will say, anybody who goes through THAT much expense and effort should automatically be a pro!
It doesn't really matter because on a Forum(the internet), anybody can be anything they want to be. 
Just have really nice cards made up and hand them out. Eventually someone is gonna ask to hire ya..., just tell them you're fully booked for ten years out to keep your cover intact!!! LoL
SS


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## Tballphoto

Sharpshooterr said:


> Tballphoto said:
> 
> 
> 
> Being a "profesional photographer" is EASILY faked if you take the time, and have the correct lack of morals and an insufficient charecter.
> 
> I have seen quite a few "up coming professional photographers" from EUROPE who have done the simple route and faked their way into photography as a professional. This is what they did.
> 
> 1. got camera gear, took some photos. Got prints developed.
> 
> 2. rented a small store front and hung prints up on the wall
> 
> 3. advertised the small "photo exhibit". opened it for a few weekends.  And then following month relocated to a different spot in town.
> 
> 4. Get on instagram and twitter. post some photos. Mention their successful exhibits.
> 
> 5. Have friends, or create fake accounts, and give praise of the wonderful work in those exhibits.
> 
> 6. befriend various people on twitter and instagram  that have 10,000+ followers and start application of their lips to those peoples "bottoms".
> 
> 6.a  after a time those people with freshly suctioned "bottoms" will usually give nice comments on that persons instagram photos.
> 
> 7. kick back, youve become a professional photographer.
> 
> Although selling a self published photo book REALLY does increase the speed fo becoming a professional.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LoL, LoL , LoL...., Tball, I can't laugh loud enough!!!
> You're kidding right??? PLEASE tell me your making all of that up?! LoL
> And you've seen, "quite a few"...., I''m STILL laughing!
> I will say, anybody who goes through THAT much expense and effort should automatically be a pro!
> It doesn't really matter because on a Forum(the internet), anybody can be anything they want to be.
> Just have really nice cards made up and hand them out. Eventually someone is gonna ask to hire ya..., just tell them you're fully booked for ten years out to keep your cover intact!!! LoL
> SS
Click to expand...



Sadly I am NOT making that up.  I have left out SOME steps, such as joining in various anti male political groups, or joining the drug culture in major cities, or becoming a member of the gay/oddball movements in major cities. 

Those are the realities i discovered this winter when i came across 
 lomography.com and its "magazine" of free self advertisement. 

I was looking for several things when that site popped up, i was trying to see what i was missing when it came to finding models that did not flake out, or models that turned out to be prostitutes with a photo twist.

After the shock of seeing so many BAD photographic images, i started looking at the websites of these "up and coming photographic super stars" and "trending photographers of the new age" that I saw all of those hall marks popping up in those peoples biographies. 

The suggestion to simply print up fancy business cars to hand out like a politician handing out promises on November 1st, is more honest, moral, and ethical then what the majority of them have done. 

I dare any of you to spend 5 hours, and go through their magazine and try to find more then one image per "article" that is properly exposed at bare minimum.  Or even in proper focus.... 

One could make an interesting drinking game for a college frat..


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## SquarePeg

Tballphoto said:


> Being a "profesional photographer" is EASILY faked if you take the time, and have the correct lack of morals and an insufficient charecter.
> 
> I have seen quite a few "up coming professional photographers" from EUROPE who have done the simple route and faked their way into photography as a professional. This is what they did.
> 
> 1. got camera gear, took some photos. Got prints developed.
> 
> 2. rented a small store front and hung prints up on the wall
> 
> 3. advertised the small "photo exhibit". opened it for a few weekends.  And then following month relocated to a different spot in town.
> 
> 4. Get on instagram and twitter. post some photos. Mention their successful exhibits.
> 
> 5. Have friends, or create fake accounts, and give praise of the wonderful work in those exhibits.
> 
> 6. befriend various people on twitter and instagram  that have 10,000+ followers and start application of their lips to those peoples "bottoms".
> 
> 6.a  after a time those people with freshly suctioned "bottoms" will usually give nice comments on that persons instagram photos.
> 
> 7. kick back, youve become a professional photographer.
> 
> Although selling a self published photo book REALLY does increase the speed fo becoming a professional.





Tballphoto said:


> Sharpshooterr said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tballphoto said:
> 
> 
> 
> Being a "profesional photographer" is EASILY faked if you take the time, and have the correct lack of morals and an insufficient charecter.
> 
> I have seen quite a few "up coming professional photographers" from EUROPE who have done the simple route and faked their way into photography as a professional. This is what they did.
> 
> 1. got camera gear, took some photos. Got prints developed.
> 
> 2. rented a small store front and hung prints up on the wall
> 
> 3. advertised the small "photo exhibit". opened it for a few weekends.  And then following month relocated to a different spot in town.
> 
> 4. Get on instagram and twitter. post some photos. Mention their successful exhibits.
> 
> 5. Have friends, or create fake accounts, and give praise of the wonderful work in those exhibits.
> 
> 6. befriend various people on twitter and instagram  that have 10,000+ followers and start application of their lips to those peoples "bottoms".
> 
> 6.a  after a time those people with freshly suctioned "bottoms" will usually give nice comments on that persons instagram photos.
> 
> 7. kick back, youve become a professional photographer.
> 
> Although selling a self published photo book REALLY does increase the speed fo becoming a professional.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LoL, LoL , LoL...., Tball, I can't laugh loud enough!!!
> You're kidding right??? PLEASE tell me your making all of that up?! LoL
> And you've seen, "quite a few"...., I''m STILL laughing!
> I will say, anybody who goes through THAT much expense and effort should automatically be a pro!
> It doesn't really matter because on a Forum(the internet), anybody can be anything they want to be.
> Just have really nice cards made up and hand them out. Eventually someone is gonna ask to hire ya..., just tell them you're fully booked for ten years out to keep your cover intact!!! LoL
> SS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Sadly I am NOT making that up.  I have left out SOME steps, such as joining in various anti male political groups, or joining the drug culture in major cities, or becoming a member of the gay/oddball movements in major cities.
> 
> Those are the realities i discovered this winter when i came across
> lomography.com and its "magazine" of free self advertisement.
> 
> I was looking for several things when that site popped up, i was trying to see what i was missing when it came to finding models that did not flake out, or models that turned out to be prostitutes with a photo twist.
> 
> After the shock of seeing so many BAD photographic images, i started looking at the websites of these "up and coming photographic super stars" and "trending photographers of the new age" that I saw all of those hall marks popping up in those peoples biographies.
> 
> The suggestion to simply print up fancy business cars to hand out like a politician handing out promises on November 1st, is more honest, moral, and ethical then what the majority of them have done.
> 
> I dare any of you to spend 5 hours, and go through their magazine and try to find more then one image per "article" that is properly exposed at bare minimum.  Or even in proper focus....
> 
> One could make an interesting drinking game for a college frat..
Click to expand...


You seem overly concerned about what other people are doing.  Who cares if someone who is untalented (in your opinion) calls themselves a pro?  There’s really no big payoff in the title.  If they open a gallery and have a show and you don’t like their work, don’t go.  It’s easy to criticize.  I give anyone who puts their work out there for people to see a lot of credit.  Especially with all the negativity that’s out there.


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## Tballphoto

SquarePeg said:


> Tballphoto said:
> 
> 
> 
> Being a "profesional photographer" is EASILY faked if you take the time, and have the correct lack of morals and an insufficient charecter.
> 
> I have seen quite a few "up coming professional photographers" from EUROPE who have done the simple route and faked their way into photography as a professional. This is what they did.
> 
> 1. got camera gear, took some photos. Got prints developed.
> 
> 2. rented a small store front and hung prints up on the wall
> 
> 3. advertised the small "photo exhibit". opened it for a few weekends.  And then following month relocated to a different spot in town.
> 
> 4. Get on instagram and twitter. post some photos. Mention their successful exhibits.
> 
> 5. Have friends, or create fake accounts, and give praise of the wonderful work in those exhibits.
> 
> 6. befriend various people on twitter and instagram  that have 10,000+ followers and start application of their lips to those peoples "bottoms".
> 
> 6.a  after a time those people with freshly suctioned "bottoms" will usually give nice comments on that persons instagram photos.
> 
> 7. kick back, youve become a professional photographer.
> 
> Although selling a self published photo book REALLY does increase the speed fo becoming a professional.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tballphoto said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sharpshooterr said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tballphoto said:
> 
> 
> 
> Being a "profesional photographer" is EASILY faked if you take the time, and have the correct lack of morals and an insufficient charecter.
> 
> I have seen quite a few "up coming professional photographers" from EUROPE who have done the simple route and faked their way into photography as a professional. This is what they did.
> 
> 1. got camera gear, took some photos. Got prints developed.
> 
> 2. rented a small store front and hung prints up on the wall
> 
> 3. advertised the small "photo exhibit". opened it for a few weekends.  And then following month relocated to a different spot in town.
> 
> 4. Get on instagram and twitter. post some photos. Mention their successful exhibits.
> 
> 5. Have friends, or create fake accounts, and give praise of the wonderful work in those exhibits.
> 
> 6. befriend various people on twitter and instagram  that have 10,000+ followers and start application of their lips to those peoples "bottoms".
> 
> 6.a  after a time those people with freshly suctioned "bottoms" will usually give nice comments on that persons instagram photos.
> 
> 7. kick back, youve become a professional photographer.
> 
> Although selling a self published photo book REALLY does increase the speed fo becoming a professional.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LoL, LoL , LoL...., Tball, I can't laugh loud enough!!!
> You're kidding right??? PLEASE tell me your making all of that up?! LoL
> And you've seen, "quite a few"...., I''m STILL laughing!
> I will say, anybody who goes through THAT much expense and effort should automatically be a pro!
> It doesn't really matter because on a Forum(the internet), anybody can be anything they want to be.
> Just have really nice cards made up and hand them out. Eventually someone is gonna ask to hire ya..., just tell them you're fully booked for ten years out to keep your cover intact!!! LoL
> SS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Sadly I am NOT making that up.  I have left out SOME steps, such as joining in various anti male political groups, or joining the drug culture in major cities, or becoming a member of the gay/oddball movements in major cities.
> 
> Those are the realities i discovered this winter when i came across
> lomography.com and its "magazine" of free self advertisement.
> 
> I was looking for several things when that site popped up, i was trying to see what i was missing when it came to finding models that did not flake out, or models that turned out to be prostitutes with a photo twist.
> 
> After the shock of seeing so many BAD photographic images, i started looking at the websites of these "up and coming photographic super stars" and "trending photographers of the new age" that I saw all of those hall marks popping up in those peoples biographies.
> 
> The suggestion to simply print up fancy business cars to hand out like a politician handing out promises on November 1st, is more honest, moral, and ethical then what the majority of them have done.
> 
> I dare any of you to spend 5 hours, and go through their magazine and try to find more then one image per "article" that is properly exposed at bare minimum.  Or even in proper focus....
> 
> One could make an interesting drinking game for a college frat..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You seem overly concerned about what other people are doing.  Who cares if someone who is untalented (in your opinion) calls themselves a pro?  There’s really no big payoff in the title.  If they open a gallery and have a show and you don’t like their work, don’t go.  It’s easy to criticize.  I give anyone who puts their work out there for people to see a lot of credit.  Especially with all the negativity that’s out there.
Click to expand...



You are overlooking the fact that doing a few fake gallery showings, sucking up to someones retail website (lomography.com), using a few of their products, and partaking in some political group will make you an instant PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHER,  regardless of how good or bad your photographs are. 

Seriously on that website, in their little magazine, MOST of the photos they show as being carefully selected to show the best use of their film, are what photographic books used to show as "things to avoid", "this means you took a bad photo" "you used bad film" you need to learn how to develop film or find a company that can do it correctly"


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## nokk

i thought being professional meant you were making money doing that skill/job/profession, regardless of skill.  it's kinda hard to fake making money, you're either making it or you aren't.

for example, all of my dispatchers at work are professional dispatchers.  but not all of them get a good annual evaluation.

honestly, i don't care what people call themselves.  as a photographer i'm only responsible for myself.  calling myself a professional or a hobbyist doesn't influence your photography at all.  

if you want to get some camera gear, take photos, make prints and put on a gallery showing using your own artwork then i don't see how it can be fake, even if no one shows.  or even if you pack it all up after a few weeks and move to a new location.  now if you're stealing someone's photos and using them as your own then i'd be more inclined to agree with the fakery, regardless of how many people attend the gallery showing.  

if their work is truly horrendous and nobody supports them then they'll go out of business, just like professionals do in every profession.


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## Destin

tirediron said:


> Designer said:
> 
> 
> 
> IMO: No, they probably had an agreement with some professional photographer to share in the sales revenue from the pro, which is why the gate person was evaluating your equipment.  They don't want you to offer your shots for sale.  The pro wanted to make sure you understood you were subservient to his efforts.
> 
> 
> 
> I find it difficult to believe there'd be any significant sales revenue from a high-school concert.
Click to expand...


Agreed. I tried to make money selling high school sports photos for a few years: it isn’t worth the time in most cases.


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## SquarePeg

Tballphoto said:


> SquarePeg said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tballphoto said:
> 
> 
> 
> Being a "profesional photographer" is EASILY faked if you take the time, and have the correct lack of morals and an insufficient charecter.
> 
> I have seen quite a few "up coming professional photographers" from EUROPE who have done the simple route and faked their way into photography as a professional. This is what they did.
> 
> 1. got camera gear, took some photos. Got prints developed.
> 
> 2. rented a small store front and hung prints up on the wall
> 
> 3. advertised the small "photo exhibit". opened it for a few weekends.  And then following month relocated to a different spot in town.
> 
> 4. Get on instagram and twitter. post some photos. Mention their successful exhibits.
> 
> 5. Have friends, or create fake accounts, and give praise of the wonderful work in those exhibits.
> 
> 6. befriend various people on twitter and instagram  that have 10,000+ followers and start application of their lips to those peoples "bottoms".
> 
> 6.a  after a time those people with freshly suctioned "bottoms" will usually give nice comments on that persons instagram photos.
> 
> 7. kick back, youve become a professional photographer.
> 
> Although selling a self published photo book REALLY does increase the speed fo becoming a professional.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tballphoto said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sharpshooterr said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tballphoto said:
> 
> 
> 
> Being a "profesional photographer" is EASILY faked if you take the time, and have the correct lack of morals and an insufficient charecter.
> 
> I have seen quite a few "up coming professional photographers" from EUROPE who have done the simple route and faked their way into photography as a professional. This is what they did.
> 
> 1. got camera gear, took some photos. Got prints developed.
> 
> 2. rented a small store front and hung prints up on the wall
> 
> 3. advertised the small "photo exhibit". opened it for a few weekends.  And then following month relocated to a different spot in town.
> 
> 4. Get on instagram and twitter. post some photos. Mention their successful exhibits.
> 
> 5. Have friends, or create fake accounts, and give praise of the wonderful work in those exhibits.
> 
> 6. befriend various people on twitter and instagram  that have 10,000+ followers and start application of their lips to those peoples "bottoms".
> 
> 6.a  after a time those people with freshly suctioned "bottoms" will usually give nice comments on that persons instagram photos.
> 
> 7. kick back, youve become a professional photographer.
> 
> Although selling a self published photo book REALLY does increase the speed fo becoming a professional.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LoL, LoL , LoL...., Tball, I can't laugh loud enough!!!
> You're kidding right??? PLEASE tell me your making all of that up?! LoL
> And you've seen, "quite a few"...., I''m STILL laughing!
> I will say, anybody who goes through THAT much expense and effort should automatically be a pro!
> It doesn't really matter because on a Forum(the internet), anybody can be anything they want to be.
> Just have really nice cards made up and hand them out. Eventually someone is gonna ask to hire ya..., just tell them you're fully booked for ten years out to keep your cover intact!!! LoL
> SS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Sadly I am NOT making that up.  I have left out SOME steps, such as joining in various anti male political groups, or joining the drug culture in major cities, or becoming a member of the gay/oddball movements in major cities.
> 
> Those are the realities i discovered this winter when i came across
> lomography.com and its "magazine" of free self advertisement.
> 
> I was looking for several things when that site popped up, i was trying to see what i was missing when it came to finding models that did not flake out, or models that turned out to be prostitutes with a photo twist.
> 
> After the shock of seeing so many BAD photographic images, i started looking at the websites of these "up and coming photographic super stars" and "trending photographers of the new age" that I saw all of those hall marks popping up in those peoples biographies.
> 
> The suggestion to simply print up fancy business cars to hand out like a politician handing out promises on November 1st, is more honest, moral, and ethical then what the majority of them have done.
> 
> I dare any of you to spend 5 hours, and go through their magazine and try to find more then one image per "article" that is properly exposed at bare minimum.  Or even in proper focus....
> 
> One could make an interesting drinking game for a college frat..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You seem overly concerned about what other people are doing.  Who cares if someone who is untalented (in your opinion) calls themselves a pro?  There’s really no big payoff in the title.  If they open a gallery and have a show and you don’t like their work, don’t go.  It’s easy to criticize.  I give anyone who puts their work out there for people to see a lot of credit.  Especially with all the negativity that’s out there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are overlooking the fact that doing a few fake gallery showings, sucking up to someones retail website (lomography.com), using a few of their products, and partaking in some political group will make you an instant PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHER,  regardless of how good or bad your photographs are.
> 
> Seriously on that website, in their little magazine, MOST of the photos they show as being carefully selected to show the best use of their film, are what photographic books used to show as "things to avoid", "this means you took a bad photo" "you used bad film" you need to learn how to develop film or find a company that can do it correctly"
Click to expand...


I’m not overlooking it, I just don’t care about that. Not sure who the “they” or “their” is in your post or what you’re even talking about.  What did this person do to negatively impact you?  Really I don’t see the point of worrying about what someone else is doing, or whether they call themselves a pro or what butt they kiss.  Did they beat you out of a shoot because they’re a “pro” and you’re not?  What gives?


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## mrca

Tball, if someone doesn't have skills at a level required to produce professional work,  he may fool some people but not someone who has a mastery of the craft.  The fake will not produce consistent work that is exceptional.  To be exceptional takes more than buying some expensive gear, some business cards and a website.  An exceptional image is like the golf swing, looks simple but there are a hundred things that you can do wrong and fake will be lucky if he can think of 50.  Yes, there are mediocre photographers making good money and starving incredible photographers.  A professional is a business man and if the incredible photographer doesn't understand business, he may  not do well.  I know of a couple of guys who were the best in a medium city.  They made 18 grand one year.  Can make more that that at McDonalds.   Yet there are mediocre photographers who understand the business and do very well.   I have won and judged pro competitions and  can tell at a glance if someone is an accomplished photographer.  That old adage it takes 10,000 hours to master a craft  easily applies to photography.    Oh, and why do you want to shoot "models?"   In most cases, it is some scrawny chick that thinks she is hot and thinks she should get paid for just standing around, often scantily clad.  No clue on how to pose or work to camera/light.    When I teach, I always warn aspiring photographers, models don't sleep with photographers, they think they should have a rich guy and a struggling photographer is far below their radar.   Are you limiting your subjects to attractive young ladies?  Why not shoot people who are far from perfect?  It will teach you facial analysis, corrective lighting, posing,  camera controls.   A blind monkey can photo a perfect model.  What do  you care if someone is a fake.  If your work and business skills dust his, he is inconsequential.


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## Tballphoto

aspergers sucks?

Seriously look at it from the viewpoint of a person who is trying to get into photography that involves interacting with a model or other people.  Wether its having some sitting on a chair while you take a picture, or someone who brings a dog to the park to have you take a photo of it. 

To simplify lets look at instagram.  All a person has to do is post about 100 photos of their lunch/breakfast/dinner/snack at some restaurant, and they are considered to be a professional photographer, as well as a professional food reviewer, and product photographer in one. 

Or worse yet, look at the little photo videos popping up on instagram. If you dont have the studio setup of the "teacher" no one will work with you because professionals will ALWAYS have about 20,000$ in studio equipment for a shoot


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## mrca

Asbergers sucks?   What does that mean?   I think Cartman called it assburgers and sold them.   If someone has no skills and posts 100 crap photos, why would someone hire them if they could photo the same crappy images?  Who "considers" someone like that a professional?  I was at a professional competition and a guy that won the class with a food photo  said his problem was getting the food to look "wet."  He had used a large soft box with soft shadow edge transitions.  It was sharp and well exposed. I had to bite my tongue because I wanted to say if you want to see  some photos where the food looks wet, a photographic term of which I am not familiar, I would say glossy, go 2 doors down and look at the sushi restaurant menu where glossy foods look that way ... because I included a specular highlight when I shot it and  the specular edge transitions tells the surface efficincy to the viewer.  The chef added cornstarch to the sauce to not only thicken but to add the visual gloss.  Does your photographer know the principle to reveal it and even what surface efficiency is?  If your  photographer doesnt know that, he is missing revealing an important characteristic of the product yet is "considered" a pro?    By whom?  Folks don't know what they don't know. And pro studio gear is the same as pro cameras, having it doesn't automatically create professional photos.  The guy I mentioned had a complete studio but was a portrait guy where speculars are  primarily managed with makeup and  he was trying his hand at product.  Folks won't work with you if  you don't have lots of gear?  I have never had a client ask what gear I used?  Have you?  If you want clients, first create a body of work that is excellent.  Then learn to market and run a business.  Forget the "models" and take great photos of normal folks.   And you just might be able to get hired by them, then get referrals and off you go. If you show great work to "models" they just might work with you and give you photos of attractive people for your website.  What gets me work beside my handsome countenance and sparkling personality, is I just show my work.   It gets me hired.  I joke about the personality thing but, if someone don't come across as competent  and confident,  would you hire that person?  But I have decades of experience,  professional awards I can discuss and an extensive  porfolio  I can show.   Showed some of my work to a booking agent recently who said, you took that photo?  that He said when it came out,  the bookings took off.  The image was so powerful he remembered it.  Bingo.   Would you hire someone who "aspires" to be a photographer who was at ordinary work or  someone with tons of experience and a track record with killer images?   How do you get that?  A TV sports guy, Tred Barta, used to say Do the work.  In this day and age, everyone has a cell phone camera with them all the time.   If you want to be hired, you  need to be able  to offer something they can't do.  With skill, that can be done with minimal gear.


----------



## Tballphoto

Well dont take this the wrong way, seriously dont. 

I have met a good number of "professional photographers" who have set themselves up as wedding and portrait photographers who do not have basic concepts of photography down such as:

an ability to use a camera BEYOND turning the dial to Automatic Mode
the ability to use a lens hood on a sunny day
the ability to use lens filters to control light, reflections, etc

I have even  had discussions with a "professional automotive photographer" who had no idea what APERTURE is.


----------



## mrca

Yes, the turn and burners have been around for years.  And they aren't insured.  Before I left CA, 2 had screwed up wedding shoots, you know, not repeatable shoots, and were  each hit with $40,000 judgments.  Wait til they try to buy a car or sell their house.  Sure, they try to shoot a wedding in a church with low light with a kit lens, don't know how or even have a flash and when everything is under exposed or has camera shake,  there is no do overs.  Have to shoot a lot of $500 weddings to make that up.   Like I said everyone with a camera  calls themselves a photographer but that doesn't make them provide professional quality images.   But why does that bother you if you have skills they don't.  They will be out of business in less than 2 years even if they don't get sued.  And that hardly used expensive gear will be on ebay for half price.  Besides, the people that are satisfied with their work and want cheap aren't my clients.


----------

