# People who want you to work for free because you know them...



## imagesbykess (Nov 2, 2011)

How do people handle this in general? I have had a few friends saying I should charge less for family portraits because I am their friend, or because the sister likes her camera and can do it too. 

How do you politely deal with undercutting. I am finding it hurtful that because my friend has done favors for me in the past I should provide free services or reduced services to her. Right now I am just starting to build up and I am at that point where I don't want to say no but I don't want to feel bitter at these people. I try to educate them but... Any advice? How did you grow through that part? Did you lose friends over it? 

As I increase my price point and introduce products I am worried some friends won't be able to afford me and then be bitter that I do not want to shoot for them.


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## jake337 (Nov 2, 2011)

Do you have children?  

Easy answer:  I gots kids to feed!


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## Overread (Nov 2, 2011)

It sounds like you've got your market wrong; your friends shouldn't be expected to be the primary source of your professional income. It's a small circle and whilst its a starting point you need to invest more time and research into clearly identifying where your target market is and then marketing yourself toward that market. 

Once you've moved your business outside of your friends circle you'll be better able to charge for your services and make an income from the public, leaving you time to choose as and when you provide your services outside of your professional capacity.


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## dots (Nov 2, 2011)

imagesbykess said:


> How do people handle this in general? I have had a few friends saying I should charge less for family portraits because I am their friend, or because the sister likes her camera and can do it too.
> 
> How do you politely deal with undercutting. I am finding it hurtful that because my friend has done favors for me in the past I should provide free services or reduced services to her. Right now I am just starting to build up and I am at that point where I don't want to say no but I don't want to feel bitter at these people. I try to educate them but... Any advice? How did you grow through that part? Did you lose friends over it?
> 
> As I increase my price point and introduce products I am worried some friends won't be able to afford me and then be bitter that I do not want to shoot for them.



What are they expecting from you exactly? Like a full-service package or what? Can't you combine it with hanging-out at their place?


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## jake337 (Nov 2, 2011)

imagesbykess said:


> How do people handle this in general? I have had a few friends saying I should charge less for family portraits because I am their friend, or because the sister likes her camera and can do it too.
> 
> How do you politely deal with undercutting. I am finding it hurtful that because my friend has done favors for me in the past I should provide free services or reduced services to her. Right now I am just starting to build up and I am at that point where I don't want to say no but I don't want to feel bitter at these people. I try to educate them but... Any advice? How did you grow through that part? Did you lose friends over it?
> 
> As I increase my price point and introduce products I am worried some friends won't be able to afford me and then be bitter that I do not want to shoot for them.



Are you talking about all of your friends or one in particular?  If someone helped you out once, it's always nice to return the favor.

You could always use your friends as marketing tools as well.  Make a deal.  Next time they ask tell them "How about you bring me 3 clients at full price and I'll give you a deal." or "bring in some clients and I'll do a free headshot for ya"  


Dots made a good point as well.  What are they expecting from you?  A single 8x10 portrait?  A full package?  Wedding?


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## cgipson1 (Nov 2, 2011)

I will occasionally shoot a friend (or a simple Friend's family shoot) just for a good meal... and the company. But they all know it had better be a damn good meal, too! lol! If you feel like they are abusing the privilege, then it may be time to look for new friends.... but if have done you favors, then you owe them something back.

Old saying.. you can choose your friends, but you are stuck with your family! (and everyone else is fair game for marketing!)


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## twocolor (Nov 6, 2011)

Once a year I do a friend free portrait party.  I serve dinner and give 1 - one - uno - single pose for them to use in a Christmas card picture.  I do it open house style come and get a picture eat soup and rolls stay and socialize if you want go home.  I have an outdoor studio in the backyard so we just slip in and out as needed.  Other than that, they pay.  My theory is if they appreciate you as a friend, they'll pay you BECAUSE they are your friend.  

Family gets free pictures, but they usually reciprocate with a dinner or something!


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## Big Mike (Nov 7, 2011)

[video=vimeo;22053820]http://vimeo.com/22053820[/video]


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## RauschPhotography (Nov 7, 2011)

If they respect you as a friend, they should respect you enough as an ARTIST who deserves to be paid.


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## bennielou (Nov 7, 2011)

I occassional do portraits for friends or family.  Sometimes I refuse, sometimes I do it for a fee, and sometimes I just offer to do the work because it sounds like a fun time.


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## MissCream (Nov 7, 2011)

I have a friends and family discount which is usually 20% off everything except weddings and prints.


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## imagemaker46 (Nov 7, 2011)

I generally don't do any shoots for friends, and they never ask. I did have a very good client that I have been working with for 10 years, he asked if I could do a shoot with his family and their grandfather who is retiring as a firefighter, we never talked money, the subject never came up.  I did the family shoot, an hour of my day. After I was done he asked if I would take some money, then his dad asked me as well.  My answer was simple.  "I was happy to do it as your son has done so many great things for me over the past 10 years" He is a good client, and a friend. Sometimes you do these things because you are asked by the right people.  If people expect you to do shoots for free simply because they are family or friends, they don't respect what you do.


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## Kerbouchard (Nov 7, 2011)

bennielou said:


> I occasional do portraits for friends or family.  Sometimes I refuse, sometimes I do it for a fee, and sometimes I just offer to do the work because it sounds like a fun time.



I guess I just fall under the 'fun time' category, cuz Cindy just did a 'free' maternity shoot for my wife and I....I guess we'll have to see how much she marks up the prints.  

As far as free shoots, for me, I've done many and have enjoyed every one of them.  Did a shoot for St. Judes that was a blast and today they gave me a commemorative plaque that means more to me than any check.  

I also usually set up a studio type shoot at a local Community Center around Halloween and Christmas so that people can get family photos that might not normally be able to afford it.  Volunteering is fun for me.  Honestly, the look in someone's eyes when they realize that you really do care about their family and their memories means more to me than any check.  

Probably, the most awarding experience as a photographer I have had was delivering prints that I had done at my expense to a local community center when they never expected it.

On the other hand, if there was somebody who wanted a free shoot and felt _entitled_ to my time and my resources, I would turn them down every time and would probably reconsider my relationship with them.


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## bennielou (Nov 8, 2011)

Totally agree with the entitement issue George.  That just pisses me off.  I had a neice (by marriage no less) ask me what I would charge her to do her wedding.  I told her to chose a package and I would give her $500 bucks off.  I NEVER do that, so I thought it was a pretty sweet family deal.
Then I get a nasty e-mail back telling me that as family, I should do it for free.  LOL.  The girl is nuts.
So she actually ended up paying a craigslister a few hundred bucks and got the most God aweful photos I've ever seen from anywhere, ever, in my life.  At least the ones that weren't lost (according to the photographer) or that actually "turned out" because of all her "bad angles".  Holy Crap!
All of a sudden, in hindsight, I was a bargain.

And no George, you get a disc. :lmao:  I'm working on your photos right now.


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## camz (Nov 8, 2011)

Kerbouchard said:


> bennielou said:
> 
> 
> > I occasional do portraits for friends or family. Sometimes I refuse, sometimes I do it for a fee, and sometimes I just offer to do the work because it sounds like a fun time.
> ...



I couldn't agree more.


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## camz (Nov 8, 2011)

Two hats worn by us. One hat is for the paying clients which will take presidence as there is an exchange for service, that's just plain and simple.

The second hat is worn during the off season to help out friends and family who aren't able to afford the typical service and we personalize it for them...sometimes it comes out of our pocket as it's free. No amount of money can quantify the return. I also help out in senior homes for other work, but also I've done some sessions for these folks. 

It really depends on how you want to structure it. For us, shooting season is strictly for such. Outside of that time frame, then we become flexible and try to give back.


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## Tee (Nov 8, 2011)

Kerbouchard said:


> On the other hand, if there was somebody who wanted a free shoot and felt _entitled_ to my time and my resources, I would turn them down every time and would probably reconsider my relationship with them.



As my skill improves I've been getting more freebie requests with that entitlement feeling.  I started telling them that even though I am not a professional I try and conduct myself as one.  Thus, I prefer not to mix business with pleasure so to speak.  The only freebies I shoot are my nieces and nephews because 1) it keeps me on top of the favorite uncle list and 2) they're just too darn precious not to


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## scorpion_tyr (Nov 15, 2011)

If my friends request my services I give them a slight discount, but I mostly keep my friends happy by using them for the special projects that are just for me. If there's something I want to do, I ask whichever friend would work best for the project and ask them if they want some free pictures. Letting them know that it's only free when it's something specific I want to shoot usually keeps them from asking me for free stuff.

If that doesn't work, I refer them to craigslist.


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## ClickAddict (Nov 15, 2011)

Normally I would agree with everyone regarding not shooting friends for free just because they expect it.  However, you did mention that the person had done you favors in the past.  What's the extent of the favors?  I have a friend who has put in hours and hours of his time working on my motorcycle / lawnmowers and pretty much anything engine related I own.  In return I've fixed his PCs and laptops.  I know he is far ahead in time spent so if ever he came looking for a portrait session (once i get better) there's no way I would ever consider charging him.  (I'd even throw in some free prints in his case).  Point is, it depends on the relationship you have with the people who ask/expect it.


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## LaineAp (Nov 19, 2011)

First of all, you have to have your own opinion about this. And a strong one. You talk and you do what you're confident about. 
Let's take for example: the sister that has camera too, she has one, right? The friends ask for you to shoot after all, right? There MUST be a reason. 
YOU are the photographer, the editor; the artist! 

So you're the master and they are your puppets, I mean, may sound harsh, but it's the frigging truth! They want you, because you're good at what you're doing!

The discount? Well, do as you feel like. It's always complicated when talking money with people close to you, you really have to have it all figured out before you're having this talk with then face to face. Will you charge them full or half price - it's your and only YOUR decision!


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