# What the???



## MrsStockham (Apr 29, 2011)

I have recently been informed (by a bride wanting my services) that,  due to the "digital age" we live in, were I to be hired for her wedding I  would have to turn over all my SOOC images to her on a data disc so she  could make all the copies she wanted to and post an online album at  Walgreens.com (of all the frickin places...) for her in laws.  HER  family thinks that Walmart.com is good enough, but HIS family doesn't.   When I informed her that I don't turn over SOOC images to anyone,  certainly not all of them and that I would include the shots she and her  husband wanted in the price of the wedding, but anyone else would have  to pay for images, she contacted her sister.  This wouldn't be a big  deal, except this sister JUST graduated from college with a photography  degree...and SO did this sister's husband.  They informed the said bride  that NO one does things like this in this "digital age" unless they are  attempting to PRICE GOUGE the bride and groom.  I of course took  offense, because I have NEVER done that in my life.  Quite frankly I  used to have such low confidence in my ability I would charge people  "cost" for their photos and profit NOTHING...most times, even eating the  cost of things I KNEW I shouldn't.  This bride (who is also a very good  friend) knows VERY well of my past of doing this.  Apparently she  thinks I am good enough to ask me based on what she's seen of my work; to hire  me if I gave into this request.  I suspect she took into account how I USED to do things and  thought I would do that for her.  I turned down the job soundly...  No  regrets.
Not even a week later...I got a phone call from ANOTHER  bride...wanting me to do her wedding...but under the SAME  frickin terms.  Take the shots, turn over ALL the SOOC images and let  her go buck wild with the printing as she sees fit.  
1.  Have I MISSED something?  Since when do customers think this is a normal business practice??
2.   How many people ACTUALLY understand that even though it indeed IS their  likeness/image in the photo, in reality it is MY original ART of  them...??(I picked the lighting for the shot, I picked the angle, I  chose the flibbi' exposure time etc.  One photographer standing in the  SAME exact place as me, taking the SAME pose could end up with a TOTALLY  different image to present...hence...it is copyrighted to ME and me  alone, unless I indicate otherwise in a contract....which I would NEVER  do.)
3.  How do you make a customer understand that this is NOT  normal practice and that if they DO happen upon a "photographer" that is  willing to do this, they are most likely interested in QUANTITY of JOBS  and not QUALITY of their work??
I am beyond frustrated.  Against  my gut, I jumped head on into the "digital age" and I have had NOTHING  but trouble like this with customers expecting services WAY above and  beyond what I or any other professional would give.  I understand that  having a personal connection can make people assume these things,  but....I have run into this with perfect strangers.  
4.  Are they TEACHING this in school now??  To work for free just to get proofs for a portfolio?


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## CCericola (Apr 29, 2011)

Doesn't matter if you shoot film negs or digital negs you don't just hand them over. Tell your friend thanks but no thanks and tell her to hire her sister. You are aboslutly right. Photographers that hand over all the files without charging for them in some way are most likely not producing the same quality images as yourself. Don't worry. There will always people who want something for nothing. You just tell them no and move on. In reality this is nothing new. Some brides have always tried to faneggle the negs away from the photographer. Whether the negs are film or digital has nothing to do with anything.


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## Derrel (Apr 29, 2011)

Boy, the thought of an on-line photofinishing battle between an Oklahoma WalMart and an Oklahoma Walgreens makes me shudder with anticipation!!!


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## Kerbouchard (Apr 29, 2011)

If those are the type of clients you are getting, I would be more tempted to blame your marketing than the clients.  Easy answer would be to tell you to raise your prices to get yourself into a different market segment.  The low end wedding market tends to be where most wedding horror stories come from.  As the price goes up, you tend to get brides and grooms that understand and appreciate the service the photographer provides.  Just my .02.


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## ghache (Apr 29, 2011)

Tell her if this is what she wants she will get it, shoot the wedding all day for X amount of money (what you charge normally + alot of money for the raw files. ), if she doesnt agree, walk away


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## subscuck (Apr 29, 2011)

Last I knew, copyright laws didn't change when digital cameras came out. If the bride is your friend, drop out and preserve the friendship if possible.
A friend of mine from high school shot my ill fated wedding. He had gotten a photo journalism degree and shot our wedding as his gift to us, and did hand over the prints and negatives, but this was by his choice, and based on the fact that we were close in school. We never asked, he volunteered.


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## KmH (Apr 29, 2011)

It is helpful if your contract clearly states that the nature of doing wedding photography is fluid, variable, and to a large degree, not directly controllable by the photographer. Consequently, the images presented to the client are chosen based solely at the discretion of the photographer, and that for various reasons, both technical and aesthetic, the majority of the images made will be discarded for being of insufficient quality to represent the photographers business.

The client is paying for the photographers artistic interpretation, and the cost of the images made by the photographer is independent of the media used for image presentation (disc or print). 

The photographer retains copyright, and all other legal rights, to the images the photographer makes. U.S. Copyright is in force for the life of the photographer, plus 70 years after the photographer passes.

Some how, you have managed to create the opportunity for this and other clients to feel they can dictate to you.

Many in business are to afraid to just say, "I understand completely. Unfortunately, that is not the way I conduct my business. You will have to find a different photographer to work with, but thank you for considering me first."


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## Bitter Jeweler (Apr 29, 2011)

Is this because the "digital age", or the "Craigslist" age?  :lmao:


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## 480sparky (Apr 29, 2011)

MrsStockham said:


> .......... Quite frankly I  used to have such low confidence in my ability I would charge people  "cost" for their photos and profit NOTHING...most times, even eating the  cost of things I KNEW I shouldn't.  This bride (who is also a very good  friend) knows VERY well of my past of doing this.............


 
So in conclusion, you opened the door........ the bride-to-be merely walked through it.


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## photogirl2002 (Apr 29, 2011)

The OP admitted that she used to give things away, but learned her lesson. We've all started somewhere and had to change what we do, so I wouldn't fault her for being honest.

I think SOOC is a little silly and I don't blame you for turning it down. I got the same request from a bride, but when I asked her what she meant by that she said she wanted everything on a CD. So I explained I edit my photos, choosing the best ones for the bride and if this is what she wanted. She admitted it was and that she didn't really mean straight out of the camera.

Also, none of the photographers near me do this -- and I live in a rural area so I can't imagine that many do it in more urban areas. They all sell prints except for two and those two charge a large enough amount to make selling the CD worthwhile.


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## MrsStockham (Apr 29, 2011)

lol....this wedding is in Green Bay...the walmart is in minnesota...lol...the walgreens is in wisconsin.  battle of the cheese heads and the vikings!


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## MrsStockham (Apr 29, 2011)

@Subsuck...i alreayd did drop out of the friend's wedding.  the second bride is a sister in law.  i normally charge 1800 for weddings...this includes a very generous amount of printed photos for the bride and groom if their "event" didn't surpass the 8 hour mark.  Then it is a "day" fee, etc.  I realize she's family, which is why she called, but....the closest my brain can come to a solution is to offer my services for the gift and free shots for HER, but anyone else must purchase them through me and I retain the originals.  Period.


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## kundalini (Apr 29, 2011)

I don't do weddings and I only read enough of your OP to form an opinion.  the solution to your delima is quite simple actually.  The response is............





 ​Then provide her with a list of photographers in your area (via craiglist, since their so goddamn cheap) to assist her in finding suitable talent.​


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## MrsStockham (Apr 29, 2011)

@KmH...quite frankly...this has never happened to me before.  This year is the first time I have been getting these type of...well...ultimatums.  I have NO problem passing on the job under such circumstances.


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## MrsStockham (Apr 29, 2011)

@480sparky....that was also TEN years ago for her...she knows FULL well I don't operate like that anymore.  I hope it was wishful thinking on her part because she didn't bother to make a budget (which I kept hounding her about).  This sister in law...that was a surprise.  Family...mine or my husband's...has NEVER asked me to take shots for ANYthing for free.  My cousins have always paid me for their weddings and grads of their kids...engagement shots before their weddings.  This sister surprised the crap out of me...to be kind...


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## MrsStockham (Apr 29, 2011)

ALSO...I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF ANYONE KNOWS OF A AIRTIGHT CONTRACT FOR WORK.  I HAVE ONE, BUT I DON'T LIKE THE WAY SOME OF IT READS, AND ALTHOUGH I WAS IN PART AN ENGLISH MAJOR...I SUCK AT LEAGALESE.  LET ME KNOW WHERE I CAN FIND SOMETHING VERY BINDING!  THANKS! =)


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## KmH (Apr 29, 2011)

Your attorney should review your contract and ensure it is actionable in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, and it should be reviewed at least every 6 months.
Model release laws, right of publicity laws, and various other possible contractual statutes vary by state.

There is not such thing as an airtight contract.

Use the plainest language possible. not leagalese,  so people will actually understand what the contract says.


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## Bitter Jeweler (Apr 29, 2011)

THIS is pretty binding!


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## KmH (Apr 29, 2011)

That's climbing rope, not binding rope. :lmao:

Looks like 150 feet of 11 mm. :thumbup:


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## MrsStockham (Apr 29, 2011)

@KmH
we are moving to ottawa.  this is another reason for a desire to make some changes to my current contract.  i'll have to have him look at it.  i guess i was just hoping there was one that was universal and stood up to the same laws here in the states as it would in a foreign country...


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## ghache (Apr 29, 2011)

MrsStockham said:


> @KmH
> we are moving to ottawa. this is another reason for a desire to make some changes to my current contract. i'll have to have him look at it. i guess i was just hoping there was one that was universal and stood up to the same laws here in the states as it would in a foreign country...



I know a really good lawyer in ottawa.


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