# Which film for no flah-gig/concert photos?



## a_spaceman (Nov 8, 2008)

i would like to take some photos during concerts with my minolta srt101b
i'm not a fan of flash in these situation so i'd like to avoid the use of it.
what i need is a fast film to combine with my pretty fast lens (1.7) and fast shutter speed.
should i go for a 400? 800? 1600?
any input/review/personal experience/advice welcome!
thanks a lot!
a.


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## epp_b (Nov 8, 2008)

Never heard of an f/1.7 lens, but I used an f/1.8 lens with my D40 at ISO 800 if that helps you at all.  Just go with the fastest film you feel is a reasonable quality.


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## a_spaceman (Nov 8, 2008)

epp_b said:


> Just go with the fastest film you feel is a reasonable quality.


guess i could change the question in "what fast film has a reasonable quality?" then


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## PatrickHMS (Nov 8, 2008)

a_spaceman said:


> guess i could change the question in "what fast film has a reasonable quality?" then


 
Most any unexpired name brand film you would buy (either color or b/w) will have a "reasonable quality" unless you push it too far, then any of them could become too "grainy" and produce poor quality results.


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## a_spaceman (Nov 8, 2008)

thanks to you both for the feedback!
i yet have to get friendly with high iso films, so i'm not too sure how much different are 400, 800 and 1600 as i never used any of these..!


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## PatrickHMS (Nov 8, 2008)

With those ISO's, are you planning to shoot in Color or B/W ???


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## a_spaceman (Nov 8, 2008)

i'd shoot in colour... would that work? or would a good old 200 handle the job anyway?


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## Paul Ron (Nov 10, 2008)

TMax 3200... http://photo-utopia.blogspot.com/2007/07/kodak-t-max-3200.html


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## Battou (Nov 10, 2008)

epp_b said:


> Never heard of an f/1.7 lens, but I used an f/1.8 lens with my D40 at ISO 800 if that helps you at all.  Just go with the fastest film you feel is a reasonable quality.



They do exist, I have two of them and a third one just bought in transit 
Sears M-42 50mm 1.7
Chinion M-42 55mm 1.7
Minolta MD 50 1.7


@ the OP

I am assuming that the listed speeds are what you have access to directly?

If so go with 800, the grain on 800 is managable and should be fast enough to do the job. I shoot a lot of 800, it's nothing to avoid. I have not ever shot 1600 but from my experience with consumer grade 1000 the grain is intolerable. 
If not and you are going online to buy pro grade 1600 that is not available in the store go with the 1600 or even go up to 3200, but keep the ideaology and expectation of grain in the back of your head.

*EDIT*



a_spaceman said:


> i'd shoot in colour... would that work? or would a good old 200 handle the job anyway?



No, I doubt 200 is going to cut it.


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## randerson07 (Nov 10, 2008)

Fuji has a Superia 1600 color negative film that Ive seen decent results from. Never used it myself but I would give it a go if I were shooting color at a show. Otherwise Ive heard Kodak Portra 800 has awesome latitude. I think I read Helen on this forum say its decent from 200-1600.

I personally would either shoot Tmax P3200 or I would bring 400 B&W film and push as far as I needed to go obtain the shutter speeds needed to capture movement. I once pushed Tmax 400 to 6400 and got pretty good results minus some bromide drag from bad developing techniques on my part.

The one thing you dont want is to bring a film that is too slow, Id rather get grainy shots that blurry ones.


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## bhop (Nov 10, 2008)

For color film low light, I like Fuji 800z.  Assuming the lighting at the show you're going to will be like most, you should be able to get some decent shots with a wide aperture.  I have a few night/indoor shots taken from last weekend in Vegas with my F100 at f/2.8 (widest my 24mm goes), handheld.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bhop73/3012640556/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bhop73/3012640662/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bhop73/3012640508/

I shot some pics of The Black Keys with some 400iso b/w film pushed to 800, this was with a 105mm f/2.5 lens mounted on my FE.  It should give you an idea of show lighting with 800 speed 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bhop73/2798545765/in/set-72157604203467163/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bhop73/2799395268/in/set-72157604203467163/


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## gsgary (Nov 10, 2008)

I have tried Ilford HP5 and Ilford Delta, not shot much film though

HP5 pushed to 1600 but it can be pushed to 3200






Delta 3200 @ 3200


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## Mike_E (Nov 10, 2008)

The last time I shot an SRT 101 in those conditions with that lens was 30 years ago. I got decent results from Kodak 400 whatever it was.  (I' gettin old! )

If I were doing it today I think that I would go with Fuji Superia 800 and when I got there make a decision whether to push it when I metered the lighting. As stated it's nice and smooth for ISO 800 and is fine at 1600 for 8x10 and below. If you don't mind a little grain and are really careful  11x14 is doable.

Nice camera _and_ lens BTW, I still have mine.


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## a_spaceman (Nov 12, 2008)

thank you all very much for the suggestions!
just one doubt i have... what do you mean by pushing? do i push by using a -say- 800 film and setting my camera at 1600? does it give me more exposure?
sorry for the probably silly question, but i've been reading about push-pulling and quite didn't get the whole thing as i've also heard these terms about developing techniques... think i need to tidy up my mind a bit, that it! 


Mike_E: it's indeed a good camera, i'm happy with the photos i've taken so far! hopefully a 24mm will be soon added, can't wait!


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## ksmattfish (Nov 12, 2008)

Battou said:


> They do exist, I have two of them and a third one just bought in transit
> Sears M-42 50mm 1.7
> Chinion M-42 55mm 1.7
> Minolta MD 50 1.7



Don't forget the legendary Pentax K-mount 50mm f/1.7  Fantastic lens, and super cheap!



a_spaceman said:


> guess i could change the question in "what fast film has a reasonable quality?" then



It depends on what you think is "reasonable".    I liked Tri-X 400 rated at ISO 1250 to 1600, and developed in Diafine.  I got better results from that than any BW film with a label rating higher than ISO 800 (Tmax 3200, Delta 3200, and Neopan 1600 were the ones I had tried).  Diafine is a compensating developer so it really helps with the extreme dynamic range I usually encountered at shows.  

My favorite high speed color film was Fuji's pro 800 (I can't remember the initials now, besides they've probably changed the name).  I shot it at ISO 800, and tried to overexpose a bit when I could.  It did not look good underexposed, but then again nothing else did either.

In the end though, I decided that 35mm film just didn't have "reasonable quality" for no-light, band photography no matter what I did.  The super coarse grain was tolerable for the subject matter, but not to my taste.  I switched to shooting medium format so I could get away with less enlarging.  That helped the quality more than any tricks I was able to pull off in the darkroom.


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## Helen B (Nov 12, 2008)

Here's a rough idea of what 'pushing' means when applied to colour negative film.

C-41 is a standardised process, with a standard development time. The development time can be increased to give more development - which can be called pushing. Just as there is a standard time for normal development there are standard times for push processing, and they are called 'push 1', 'push 2', 'push 3' etc. These are the nominal speed increases that can be expected in the midtones. This suggests that an ISO 800 film should be exposed at EI 1600 if it is given 'push 1' development.

Different films behave in different ways, however, and many of us prefer to use lower meter settings than the 'push' number would suggest when using colour negative film. For example, I don't bother with push 1 development of colour negative, and go straight to push 2, rating Fuji Pro 800Z at about EI 1600 and Portra 800 at about EI 2000. (I don't use either film at higher than the box speed without push development)

It's a different matter with colour reversal ('slide') film. That has a much lower dynamic range, and the optimum meter setting is likely to be close to the nominal push rating - ie if you use ISO 400 film with push 1 development it is probably best to set your meter to EI 800.

There may be a colour temperature issue. All currently available still colour negative film is balanced for daylight, and if you use it in tungsten light it will have to be corrected in post if a blue correction filter has not been used on the lens - these lose two stops of light.

If you have given barely adequate exposure and haven't used a blue filter you may have difficulty getting a good colour balance in the shadows. Fortunately at most gigs it isn't important for really accurate colour balance to be obtained in the shadows.

Colour negative film tends to be more grainy in the shadows, and the blue sensitive layer tends to be the grainiest layer. These two effects mean that daylight film exposed in tungsten light without a correction filter will have gritty blue shadows. You either learn to like it, give plenty of exposure (hence my lowering of EI from the nominal push rating by about one stop) or switch to another medium...

Best,
Helen


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## Battou (Nov 12, 2008)

ksmattfish said:


> Battou said:
> 
> 
> > They do exist, I have two of them and a third one just bought in transit
> ...



Oh yes I am fully aware of it's existance...Sadly, I don't have one and I was just listing the ones I have and can show if need be. I tend to be precautionary like that at times.


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## ksmattfish (Nov 13, 2008)

Battou said:


> Sadly, I don't have one...



Keh has the various models from $50 to $80, but I see them all the time at flea markets usually going for about $30 attached to a camera!


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## a_spaceman (Nov 13, 2008)

Helen B said:


> Here's a rough idea of what 'pushing' means when applied to colour negative film.
> 
> C-41 is a standardised process, with a standard development time. The development time can be increased to give more development - which can be called pushing. Just as there is a standard time for normal development there are standard times for push processing, and they are called 'push 1', 'push 2', 'push 3' etc. These are the nominal speed increases that can be expected in the midtones. This suggests that an ISO 800 film should be exposed at EI 1600 if it is given 'push 1' development.
> 
> ...


thanks a lot.
may i add a couple further questions?
when you say EI is it the asa indicator on the camera? if i set it unaccordingly to the film i'm using and then develop without pushing nor pulling what kind of changes do i get in the photo? does it make any sense?
once again, thanks a lot!
a.


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## randerson07 (Nov 13, 2008)

a_spaceman said:


> thanks a lot.
> may i add a couple further questions?
> when you say EI is it the asa indicator on the camera? if i set it unaccordingly to the film i'm using and then develop without pushing nor pulling what kind of changes do i get in the photo? does it make any sense?
> once again, thanks a lot!
> a.



If you take a 400 speed film and rate your camera at 800 and make no changes to the development, your not pushing, your underexposing by 1 stop. If you rate that 400 film at 200 and make no dev changes then your over exposing by 1 stop, not pulling.

Is that what your looking for?


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## a_spaceman (Nov 13, 2008)

randerson07 said:


> If you take a 400 speed film and rate your camera at 800 and make no changes to the development, your not pushing, your underexposing by 1 stop. If you rate that 400 film at 200 and make no dev changes then your over exposing by 1 stop, not pulling.
> 
> Is that what your looking for?


yes!
was wandering how the camera rate affects the photos and that's one clear, concise answer! 
it also makes helen's post clearer to me. not that she provided a bad explanation, i just didn't have the right clues to grasp it.
now i guess it's up to me to find out how much difference one step makes...!


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## a_spaceman (Nov 13, 2008)

Mike_E said:


> If I were doing it today I think that I would go with Fuji Superia 800 and when I got there make a decision whether to push it when I metered the lighting.


is there a way to meter the lighting with the 101?


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## randerson07 (Nov 13, 2008)

What I would do is set your camera too box speed of your film, setup like your going to take a shot and set your shutter and aperture to make a proper exposure. Now with the proper exposure set do you have a fast enough shutter speed to stop blur? do you have the Depth of Field your looking for? If not pushing will help you achieve what your looking for.


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## Rem (Jan 12, 2009)

a_spaceman said:


> thanks to you both for the feedback!
> i yet have to get friendly with high iso films, so i'm not too sure how much different are 400, 800 and 1600 as i never used any of these..!



I find the current 800's to be quite acceptable. If I'm shooting my 300 f 4 tele then 800 is difficult unless I can brace on something. 1600 helps a lot then, but i's a bit grainy.  Underexposures will bring out the grain more.
My 135 1.8 is my "concert" lens. It's decent with 400, better with 800.
I used to push Tri-X b+w to 1200 or 1600 wih a developer called Diafine. Not sure they still make it but it was cool


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## Rem (Jan 12, 2009)

a_spaceman said:


> is there a way to meter the lighting with the 101?



My camera was an old Mamiya which..handy..had spot metering. I'd scan around the scene and watch the meter needle swing as I aimed at the bright and dark areas-then I'd look to meter something MEDIUM. Generally..with my 135 1.8 I'd be shooting wide open and at 1/125 with 800. With the 50 1.4 I could hold at 1/30 ....so 400 film would be okay. Stage lights vary. Not only with venues-but also minute to minute. When there's a lot of red it's gonna cost you an F stop and will come out pretty monochrome.  White and blue lights will give more "real" color range. Concert shots are tricky with a wide meter pattern as you often have very dark background and some rather bright highlights..a lot of contrast. Interesting....that 135 1.8 is rather low contrast wide open so it actually helps compensate.  IF you can get up close...that helps a LOT, you not only get a closer more dramatic shot but it's way easier to meter as you don't get as much dark background in the frame.


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