# Methods to selling sports photos?



## happyf33tz

Hey all,

I have been photographing sports for over a year now, and I have recently tried to promote myself and sell photos to parents at a high school a have full access to right now. I have passed out countless business cards, set up a table with my business banner in front for everyone to see while my iPad has my sports portfolio playing in a slideshow with package options to view and select, announced to the crowd that photos of the game are available for purchase afterwards upon request, and so on. I personally believe that my portfolio is strong enough to gain the average parents attention, but everything I have tried just doesn't seem to get them interested. 

Am I expecting too much from high school parents? Am I doing something wrong? I work for The Californian Newspaper as well as Max Preps and I advertise that at my table so parents can see my background history.

I'm not asking for a bunch of parents to start hiring me personally or anything, but I would think at least 1 would be interested and hire. The most I have gotten out of a parent was "Where can I get the games photos at?" And I respond with, "They will be available to view on my website, from there you can select which photos you would like for $3 per digital copy" and I hand them my business card but never hear back from them.

if any of you are curious to see my work, you can check it out at Seth Jordan Sanchez Photography

thanks in advanced towards anyone who responds


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## TonysTouch

First of all, I think your website has a nice design and you do quality work. Though your website has a nice design, as a parent it would be nearly impossible to spot my kid in most of your photos. I think the first thing you should do is make it easier to identify the players. A couple of ways you can do this is by grouping the photos by event including team, game and date; you can also list the first name of the player so parents can see who is who. 

Another thing you should keep in mind is how many players' photos you post. Looking at the Rams game, there is only a handful of players you can identify that are the subject of the photo. By my count, I could only find 6 players that are completely identifiable and are the subject. So out of a team of 30-50 players, you have material for 12-20% of the parents. This means you have a small chance of the right parent visiting your booth. And naturally, only a small percentage of those will actually buy a photo.

Another thing to remember is the lag between when the game ends and when they can view the photos. Even if you post the photos as soon as the game is over, you are allowing a lot of time for them to get back home and look up your website. When I played HS football, it could take a few hours to get back home. The more time it takes for them to view the content, the more time they have to forget about it. One way you can minimize this time is to upload your photos directly to your iPad so the parents can see the image right after the game. You can also benefit from have a list of the kids names you got a decent photo on your table for the parents to see as they are leaving. Nothing grabs someone's attention like seeing their or their family members' names.


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## happyf33tz

Thank you for the response Tony,

When they contact me, I upload the games photos on my site through a seperate section. 

Here is a link to a game I uploaded on the Rams final Varsity soccer game which also had a celebration for the seniors before the game started. If it asks for a password, it is "gomesago"

500px / Seth Sanchez / Mesa Varsity Soccer

I had about 5 parents ask to view the images from this game via email and I sent them this link and told them it is $3 per photo digital copy and prints vary depending on the size they would like. After telling one of the parents that, they replied back with "Is there a way for me to save the ones I want from your website to my computer?"  Because with 500px if you try to right click to save the photo, it won't allow you to do that.

-_- Every parent I have ran into just thinks it's all a free handout.


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## TonysTouch

Of course they do, everyone always does. In this case, you may want to target the students themselves. I can't think of many teens that would pass on a photo of themselves for $3. Plus everyone knows that the way into a parents wallet is through their kids. (If you need proof of that just walk into your local Babies R' Us, lol.) You might want to contact the school and see if you can set up your table in the cafeteria during lunchtime. The high schoolers will probably be with their friends and their ego will be much easier to sell to than their parents' penny pinching habits.


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## curtyoungblood

> When they contact me, I upload the games photos on my site through a seperate section.



This is probably part of the problem. You should make it as easy as possible on the customer, there's no way I would ever contact you to get you to upload photos. If there were photos on the page that I could just order, that may be a different story.


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## imagemaker46

First of all if you are asking only $3 for a photo you have undervalued your work, you may as well be giving the photos to the parent s free. You can set up all the tables you want, pass out cards and keep doing all the "right" things to try and generate interest, but it is my experience that people like to look at pictures of themselves online, but very few are willing to pay for them.  I haven't figured out why it's like this.  Doesn't seem to matter how amazing the photos are either.  You can keep trying, but it will probably just end up in more frustration.  Looking at your photos, there is nothing wrong with them, you are offering a quality product.


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## imagemaker46

I see on your web site that you specialize in everything and that you have been shooting sports for a year.  What kind of rate would you charge to shoot a sporting event or wedding if you are charging only $3 for a download file?

I noticed that you are shooting with high end gear as well.  You're using close to $30k worth of gear and you're concerned about trying to sell a a photo for $3


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## KmH

If you want to do business, you have to apply business principles - marketing, salesmanship, promotion, etc.
Since a digital file can be printed/copied electronically many times and at a variety of sizes they should cost way more than $3. More like $50 each.
Think of your photographs as unique luxury items, and not like a mass produced commodity.

Most action sports shooters make money by printing and selling on site. Most people buy on impulse and emotion. It really helps to have product available right there, right then.
Even better is to have samples of mounted and/or framed desk and wall size prints.

The money is in doing league T&I - team and individual.


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## imagemaker46

KmH said:


> If you want to do business, you have to apply business principles - marketing, salesmanship, promotion, etc.
> Since a digital file can be printed/copied electronically many times and at a variety of sizes they should cost way more than $3. More like $50 each.
> Think of your photographs as unique luxury items, and not like a mass produced commodity.
> 
> Most action sports shooters make money by printing and selling on site. Most people buy on impulse and emotion. It really helps to have product available right there, right then.
> Even better is to have samples of mounted and/or framed desk and wall size prints.
> 
> The money is in doing league T&I - team and individual.




Selling files are only worth what the market will stand.  Trying to sell a sports image for $50 is pointless when he can't even sell them for $3.  People do buy when they are presented with the images on site, the cost for setting this up doesn't always pay off.  I shot for a group a couple of years ago that sold on site, the photos offered were great, the price was right, and on most days they just broke even, after paying the photographers they had to hire, and staff for the booth, they rarely made any money.  They worked 12 hour days, almost as volunteers.  The Op is using a 1Dx and a 400 2.8, I assume probably a 70-200 2.8 and a spare body as well.  I don't know any 22 year old kids that are walking around with this kind of gear and are on a forum trying to find out how to sell a $3 file.


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## happyf33tz

Well originally I tried selling my images $10 per digital copy, but they would not buy. Ever since the beginning on the school year in 2012 I have been working really hard at creating a strong portfolio with plenty of experience to be able to sell my skill to parents. 

Also, the website is an "Awesome" account by 500px. You pay $50 and they give you your own domain, but the catch is you can't fully customize the website, they have pre-made themes that you can choose from. I am on a tight budget right now, because I literally just purchased the 1DX after months of saving up and sold my 7D, so currently, creating a legit website is not an option for me. 

Well, I guess I'm the first kid with this gear on a forum asking for help form veterans that have the experience. I have been doing photography for about 2 years now, but with sports photography, I have just had this problem since day one. Just trying to see if my work isn't as good as I think it is, or I am just missing something obvious here. Judging by the replies on this thread, it seems that this is just the harsh reality of it: parents aren't all that interested in purchasing action photos of their kid, or I should consider a new strategy on how to promote myself and get parents to purchase the photos RIGHT there and then.

And if a parent was to hire me to cover a high school game, I would charge $200. you would get all the images I captured after taking out out of focused//etc shots, and get 4 wallets, 3 5x7 and 2 8x10 prints, I have the parents choose which shots they would like prints of.

Thank you guys for giving me help, I appreciate it.


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## TonysTouch

One way I have seen it done successfully is to show the parents the RAW files immediately after the game and have them fill out an order form on spot. It has a more professional feel to it. Then when you are done processing them, mail the prints directly to the parent or have them ready at the next game.


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## happyf33tz

TonysTouch said:


> One way I have seen it done successfully is to show the parents the RAW files immediately after the game and have them fill out an order form on spot. It has a more professional feel to it. Then when you are done processing them, mail the prints directly to the parent or have them ready at the next game.



That's one idea that I can give a shot, I edit most game photos right away on my laptop anyway. 

I may try to have a friend help me out one day by having a booth set up like I have before, but when halftime hits, I can run up to the booth and edit the shots I got so far and then have them on display via iPad.


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## 2WheelPhoto

Big watermark and a "suchandsuchphotography" facebook page are key, too


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## TonysTouch

I personally would use Lightroom on a laptop so you can import them with a preset. It would be faster and give the parents a general feel of how the photos will look.


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## imagemaker46

Can I ask a personal question.  How is that a 22 year kid still in school can afford to upgrade from a 7D to an $8000 1Dx and a $12,000 400 2.8, I assume that you also have other lenses.  Just curious.  Especially when you seem to be having trouble generating any kind of income from photography.

Selling to parents is always a tough sell.  I shot NHL hockey for over 10 years, and then last year shot a few kids games on a weekend after a friend asked if I could get a few of his kids.  My web site is geared for high res direct downloads, all very simple.  The hockey pictures I uploaded were the best that these parents were ever going to see of their kids, I couldn't sell a single image at $15.  These pictures were poster material, and the parents all thought they were amazing pictures, but still didn't want any.  It is a frustrating business, especially when you can't figure out why pictures don't sell.


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## happyf33tz

imagemaker46 said:


> Can I ask a personal question.  How is that a 22 year kid still in school can afford to upgrade from a 7D to an $8000 1Dx and a $12,000 400 2.8, I assume that you also have other lenses.  Just curious.  Especially when you seem to be having trouble generating any kind of income from photography.




I am not in school right now and it took A LOT of work from 3 other jobs I have. I worked 10-3 am for about 5 months straight to get the 1DX finally and I owned an arcade machine that is no longer made anymore which made it very rare and I sold it for 8k and bought the 400 2.8 used on ebay for that price. I only own another lens besides the 400 2.8, which is the 70-200mm 2.8 IS mark ii lens. I saved up for that one too by working non stop at my other jobs. 

I own all this expensive gear, because I really love to take photographs even as a serious hobby, but I would really like to eventually get a job with getty images, Sports Illustrated, or the NFL (I know, every sports photographer says this). I know how it is highely unlikely to even get into one of those jobs, because it is VERY difficult, but I take sports photography very serious, and I know it is required to have some serious gear when you want to get up there with top notch image quality, so why not get it now if I can afford it, rather than wasting money on cheaper lenses with f4-5.6 lenses that are slower and just don't work anywhere near the 2.8 higher end glass?


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## TonysTouch

On the football field, which do you prefer: a prime or zoom?


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## happyf33tz

Depends what type of shot I want, but I would prefer prime.


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## TonysTouch

I've always worried about framing such a high-action sport with a telephoto prime.


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## happyf33tz

Though zoom lenses really help out a photographer, especially in sports/action, I am happier with the overall image quality in my prime 400. It does take more thinking, since you have to move around more, but having a 70-200 for times when they get closer is always helpful. A 200-400 would pretty helpful, but seeing it being an f4 lens just really turns the deal down from me. I'm happy with my 400 prime.


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## TonysTouch

I couldn't imagine the $$$ for a 200-400 f/2.8.

Though for 26K you could always get the Sigma 200-500mm f/2.8 lol


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## 2WheelPhoto

TonysTouch said:


> I couldn't imagine the $$$ for a 200-400 f/2.8.
> 
> Though for 26K you could always get the Sigma 200-500mm f/2.8 lol



I couldn't imagine a model shoot with a 8 pound lens either


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## TonysTouch

???


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## 2WheelPhoto

2WheelPhoto said:


> TonysTouch said:
> 
> 
> 
> I couldn't imagine* the $$$ for a 200-400 f/2.8*.
> 
> Though for 26K you could always get the Sigma 200-500mm f/2.8 lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I couldn't imagine a model shoot with a 8 pound lens either
Click to expand...




TonysTouch said:


> ???



That lens weighs too much for about anything except laying across a range rover in Africa pointing at zebras


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## TonysTouch

Exceptions can be made for a lens like that


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## happyf33tz

Back on topic though, I guess in todays age parents are satisfied with the photos they get from their iPhones and rebels with a kit lens from the stands :/


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## KmH

Yep! Pretty much. So give 'em something they can't get with a phone camera or a Rebel from the stands.


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## happyf33tz

I think my work is already far beyond iphone/rebel photos from the stands/bleachers though :l


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## TonysTouch

Agreed. But most parents are happy with good enough.


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## happyf33tz

Alright I will give the targeting students thing a shot and see how that goes. Also out of curiosity, how much do printers go for that can print on the go through laptop connection? I wouldn't want a lower end one, but at the same time I don't need some insane quality printer either, something that produces prints that are above average.


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## TonysTouch

Pretty much any printer will hook up through a USB port. The more important thing would be to have a somewhere to plug into or one that has an independent power source.


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## KmH

For on-site printing, look at dye-sub printers.


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## imagemaker46

I'd look into some companies that are already doing on site printing at sports events before investing in anything.  The guys I shot for were running 3 flat screens, a desk top, laptop 2 high end printers, and had 3 people working the booth.  They also had a spare of everything, roughly $15,000.  This was a simple setup.  I have seen other photographers running 6-10 flat screens and all the hardware that goes with it, $25,000+

 In your case, sitting at a desk with a laptop and printer, while trying to shoot as well, not going to happen, if people can't look at the photos within minutes of an event ending,  they will walk away.  The photos you shoot will have to go on the screens unedited, which means people will see all the crap as well.  It's not an operation that you should consider jumping into without really doing your homework on.  Dropping 25k on camera gear is one thing, that's the easy part, setting up to sell is where it becomes work.  Unless you start making some very serious money, you will be needing  new gear long before you've recovered what you've just spent on gear.


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## happyf33tz

Very true. I have plenty of friends that would work the booth with me though. But having all that to invest in is just not going to happen for me. I am dead broke after all my investment in equipment. Maybe I can look into getting a printer that prints on location and borrow a good sized tv to use at a local high school I have connections with and see how it goes from there. If it starts to make a difference and I start getting business, then that would be awesome. I really feel like the reason parents are not buying, is simply because they forget after leaving. Maybe printing on site and having the photos ready will make a difference? I'd have to teach a friend or two on how to properly edit photos though via Lightroom. I'll look into a good printer.


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## Tony S

High shcool is a tough sell.  Parents are just not that into getting pictures from every game.  Now set up at a tourney for 3-5th graders and you will do pretty good.  I shoot tons of highschool stuff and end up with over 65 events throughout the school year, hand out hundreds of business cards, and other ways of reaching my intended audience.  It hardly pays for itself, showing up on speculation that you hope will create sales is not going to work.  Mom and dad are happy with the cell phone or video that they take, or that one other parent who spent the money on a decent camera and gives the pictures away.

  One thing I noticed is your pictures are way too big on your website, even taking a screen shot, putting it into a new image in Photoshop and cropping out the rest of the page resulted in an image size of 898x602 pixels, or 12.472x8.361 @ 72ppi.  Those make prints that parents are happy to steal, even the ones with copyright marks on them.  Yes, they look nice in the larger size, but they are so easy to take for free.  Keep them to smallish sizes and tougher to get a decent screen shot image of.

  here's an example of one of them taken as a screen shot and then cropped down... lots of parents and kids would love printing this out, using it in a slide show or posting it to Facebook.


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## imagemaker46

Tony S said:


> High shcool is a tough sell.  Parents are just not that into getting pictures from every game.  Now set up at a tourney for 3-5th graders and you will do pretty good.  I shoot tons of highschool stuff and end up with over 65 events throughout the school year, hand out hundreds of business cards, and other ways of reaching my intended audience.  It hardly pays for itself, showing up on speculation that you hope will create sales is not going to work.  Mom and dad are happy with the cell phone or video that they take, or that one other parent who spent the money on a decent camera and gives the pictures away.
> 
> One thing I noticed is your pictures are way too big on your website, even taking a screen shot, putting it into a new image in Photoshop and cropping out the rest of the page resulted in an image size of 898x602 pixels, or 12.472x8.361 @ 72ppi.  Those make prints that parents are happy to steal, even the ones with copyright marks on them.  Yes, they look nice in the larger size, but they are so easy to take for free.  Keep them to smallish sizes and tougher to get a decent screen shot image of.
> 
> here's an example of one of them taken as a screen shot and then cropped down... lots of parents and kids would love printing this out, using it in a slide show or posting it to Facebook.



Good point on the web site, I had a look and thought the same thing.  It may also explain why he isn't making a lot of sales, although I don't expect too many are being lifted.


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## 1hawaii50

I've been shooting high school volleyball and basketball for the past 2 years...everyone wants it for free, but nobody wants to buy.  I sell very little, but I'm getting shots of my daughter playing, so I've got another vested interest anyway...


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## imagemaker46

It really is difficult to understand. As a parent if someone had great pictures of my kids I would want them. Maybe it's just a photographer thing.  I had a friend that wanted pictures of his kids playing hockey, I went out and shot great pictures of his kids and then he didn't buy any, and I didn't give him any of them.  I couldn't figure that one out.   At another event that I was shooting for a client I had a parent ask if I would shoot some pictures of her daughter, I gave her my business card and shot a bunch, posted them to my web site and let her know they were there, figuring nothing would sell, and she ended up dropping $300 on the pictures I posted. I wish I could find all these parents.

I just can't figure it out.


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## KmH

1hawaii50 said:


> I've been shooting high school volleyball and basketball for the past 2 years...everyone wants it for free, but nobody wants to buy.  I sell very little, but I'm getting shots of my daughter playing, so I've got another vested interest anyway...


Selling requires applying some marketing and salesmanship principles/skills.


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## JBrown

The problem is your sales method. As others have mentioned the best setup is the on site view/print sales. However that is going to require at minimum one other person. If it is going to be a one man show, you have to make youre website sales friendly. I would suggest a zenfolio website. Ive done motorcross sales using mine and it worked out ok and your stuff is much better then mine.

The key is getting the person to the photos of their kid quickly and to the checkout without confusion or tedium. For example, I had motocross sorted by day, age group and rider number. If someone was looking for their kid they would have no problem finding it. I spent more time organizing the photos then I did editing them.

In the interest of full disclosure the process was so tedius I never did it again. I made a couple hundred from the weekend, but time spent was retarded and 80% of it was boring editing, organizing, and uploading. In the end wasnt what I wanted to do on my days off.

 I didnt sell a single picture of a adult or teenager, everything was of younger kids. If I was you I would focus on elementary and middle school for sales. Granted they are painfully boring, but thats where the money will be IMO. Finally $3 is crazy low. You wont be selling these in bulk, for most people it will be a one time purchase. Think of every person as a one time sale and then they are out of the market.


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## vintagesnaps

I've seen the same type set up as mentioned at sports tournaments, usually for younger than high school aged participants. It seems to vary depending on where you live but don't high schools already make their own arrangements for team and individual player photos? - I'm wondering if they make those available to the families who aren't then interested in additional photos. 

When I've seen photos being sold at tourneys usually there's a slideshow running of the player photos which are being printed and handed to the parents when they make the purchase.


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## MetroRuss

It may be psychological as well, the $3 price tag.

They may think you are putting no value on your work and skills. This equals no value for them. Even though its their kids and you take awesome pics.

Wtf  is wrong with people these days.

How about flyers offering free digital files by email but only give them.low res pics and in the email you upsell them with the high res package with framed poster prints and the original files ie.
Now you have their email and you can send them seasonal specials for family portraits at xmas or special events, birthdays etc. 

The key is to keep your name and skills in Their.mind. 

After you do a dozen or more jobs hopefully you will generate some referrals.

You can offer them a word of mouth deal.
If Mrs B calls you and says Mrs A told me about you, you reward Mrs A with 25% off her next session with you as long as its over x amount dollars.


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## thomas30

Make a new E commerce website for selling sport photos and then start online marketing with ppc. One of my friend earned alot by selling paintings by this method.


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## imagemaker46

thomas30 said:


> Make a new E commerce website for selling sport photos and then start online marketing with ppc. One of my friend earned alot by selling paintings by this method.




My entire business web site is based on high resolution downloads and prints and is easy to navigate, it really can't get any easier for people to find photos of the events I shoot.  It still comes down to an over saturation of images with everyone owning cell phones, cameras etc.  People aren't as interested in hanging pictures on their walls as much as they are interested in showing friends a computer screen.


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## rivercityphotography

Couple thoughts:

Try passing out 4x6 flyers at the games instead of business cards. I've had better success with flyers, maybe because they are harder to stick in a pocket and lose?

These days you need a real relationship with the people you are selling to in pretty much any industry. Almost all my sales have come from people that I talked to over the course of a few games, Parents of kids that had older kids I played on teams with, locals at a paintball field I frequented, surfers that I run into repeatedly.

The first year I was shooting and selling stuff, I shot with a Nikon D-60 and the kit 55-200 lens. The quality of the photos were not great... most not even good really, but I took the time to get to know the people I was shooting, or the parents of the people I was shooting, and we were able to do some business. Your photos are much better than mine ever were, if they aren't selling, it is time to shmooze, make deals, find a sport with more money.

I'd say put up some prices on the website. The people you become friends with will look at those prices and want a friend discount, so offer them a package. Instead of $3 a picture, ask for $10 up front, but make them a nice deal and if they buy 2, send them a couple extra shots cuz you are a nice guy. Nothing makes people respond better than feeling like they have "won." And then they have the process of doing business with you down comfortably, and you dont have to drop trousers next time you show them some shots. Make your deals face to face. They will look at your photos from one game, like them, but want a better price. So ask them the next game what they thought. They will say they liked the shots, and you will say, "well if you are interested in a couple of those, I will throw in a couple from today too." and get them to point out on your ipad the ones they liked from last game, and then surprise them with whatever shots you select from the second game.

Highschool sports are probably not going to be the best place to find extra money in people's pockets, unless it is club sports. Cali is probably different than Texas, but still. If the parents have to pay for their kid to be on the team, they have a larger investment, so what is another $10 to help them feel like that $2k was worth it for little Johnny to be on the lacrosse team.

Talk to the school, or district administrative office. They have budgets for artwork. See if they want nice pics of their current students (or maybe more likely, wide shots of the venues) to hang in the halls.

I guess that is all for now. Good luck, start schmoozing.

Edit: I took a breather and I guess I do have more. As I write this, it is kind of self motivation and brainstorming for my own career.
Oh, and wear something bright with your website on it when you go shoot, or dress up a little. I only say that because the photo in your biography section is a little intimidating. Smile broski! You are a salesman now.

Facebook. Annoying, but useful for backlinks to your site and putting your face in front of alot of people. And free. I saw a couple external links on your page, but I dont think I saw Facebook.


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## dmunsie

Just some off the top of my head ideas:
a) Smaller images on your website, with big watermarks.
b) Pass out flyers with contact info & EXACT web link to the preview photos for the event they are at: yoursite.com/schoolname_event/
c) Have easy way to order prints online. The fewer steps that have to take, the better.
d) Your age might be a problem for some, you're only a few years older than their own kids. This DOES impact your perceived credibility regardless how good the shots are. Sad..but true.
e) Like others have said, open up your market and shoot toddler, elementary sports as well. This could be key to making some decent money.
f) Offer something unique, b&w, hdr, etc, etc.
g) Perhaps sell video clips as well. Video of baskets being made, strike outs, game winning moments, etc, etc. Might be premium content. 
h) Price your digital files much higher, that way if you have to negotiate you can offer substantial discounts if needed.
i) Advertise your presence at events in school newsletters, school facebook pages, local newspapers, etc, etc.
j) Try to be the "only" authorized official photographer at the school events and exploit that via your marketing.
h) I don't know your physical appearance at these events, but you may need to look the pro part, wear nice clothes, perhaps a suit, etc, etc. Look like you're worth top dollar. 

Good luck!


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