# 7D noise performance?



## swiftparkour94 (Oct 23, 2012)

Is the 7D's noise performance the same as the T3i and T2i? If it's better, then is it considerably good for low lit sports without post processing? What is your ISO limit for both JPEG's and RAW's? Very important for me to know as this is the only reason why I'm afraid to buy it in the (hopefully near) future. Yes, renting it is an option but right now I'm more worried about having the right lenses for different occasions as I am currently on a budget (applying at nearby stores for the $)


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## Big Mike (Oct 23, 2012)

I've heard some say it's great, I've heard others say it's terrible.  

It usually comes down to person's own personal limits and level of tolerance for noise.  If you're a pixel peeper with an aversion to digital noise, you probably won't like it.  If you tend to see the image as a whole, rather than the noise, then it's probably fine.  :er:


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## JAC526 (Oct 23, 2012)

My friend sold his 7d and kept the 60D b/c the noise of the 7D was so terrible.

Just his experience.


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## rexbobcat (Oct 23, 2012)

The 7D uses the same sensor as the T3i and the 60D, although the software is probably different so that might make one more capable as high ISO than the others.

I shoot up to 6400 on my 60D mostly because getting the shot is more important to me than worrying about noise. It's not the best performance but it's tolerable.


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## MLeeK (Oct 23, 2012)

You've seen my work with the 7D at 12800. I do remove noise in Adobe Camera Raw/Lightroom, but I don't do any other processing. 
Here is my latest post http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/photojournalism-sports-gallery/303245-its-over.html
Shot with the 7D, ISO 12800; f/4 with the Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 OS. In the rain.
Note that the lower end bodies do not have a dual wheel system, they have a button system for the aperture and it's damned complicated. They also are plastic and are not weather sealed at all whereas the 7D is magnesium alloy and weather sealed.
If you want to see those larger just say so and I'll get them for you.


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## Overread (Oct 23, 2012)

I would think that the core noise capabilities of the 7D are pretty much the best canon currently do for 1.6 crop sensor DSLR. With their current line up its top of that list so I would expect its noise control to be top of that as well. That said the JEPG auto processing options of newer DSLRs and specifically those in a lower market segment might be superior to those in the 7D. This doesn't mean that their ability with noise is better or worse, just that the automatic software for reducing it for a JPEG is superior. 

This would make some sense as JPEG processing is a software side that can be advanced on without necessarily needing a more powerful camera hardware feature set plus the further down the line you go the more casual users you get who might not use the RAW editing (note this does not mean that JPEGs are not used professionally of course). 


Honestly if you want a top end 1.6 crop sports camera from Canon you get the 7D. The 60D has a good set of features to its name certainly, but its still a bit substandard next to the 7D. Now if you want better again in noise performance you can jump to the fullframe sensors which across the board to better than crop sensors with regard to noise control - however unless you go for the 5DMIII or a 1D line fullframe body you lose the AF performance that you gain with the 7D. Cameras like the 5D and 5DMII are very good cameras and can do very good low light noise control, but they lack the AF standards most find helpful for sports - esp late night sports. Sure you can use them, but if given the choice a 7D will make life a lot easier to get the shots. 


Of course the "best" currently would be a 1DMIV or a 5DMIII - however both of those options carry a very high price tag (a 1DMIII might be a good option to compare to, but I've honestly no idea how the 1DMIII stands up to the 7D in performance and image quality).


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## Big Mike (Oct 23, 2012)

> I would think that the core noise capabilities of the 7D are pretty much the best canon currently do for 1.6 crop sensor DSLR.


I know a few photographers who believe that a better balance of sensor size vs MP was somewhere around 12-14MP (or as low as 8).  And that the increase in MP on the APS-C sensors, just made for too much noise and other image quality issues.

For example, I work with a photographer who owns a 1DsmkIII but always prefers his 40D when he doesn't specifically need the features of the 1Ds.  Part of it is size and comfort, but part of it is that the difference in image quality isn't an issue (especially when you're a master at lighting, like he is).


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## Overread (Oct 23, 2012)

Big Mike said:


> > I would think that the core noise capabilities of the 7D are pretty much the best canon currently do for 1.6 crop sensor DSLR.
> 
> 
> I know a few photographers who believe that a better balance of sensor size vs MP was somewhere around 12-14MP (or as low as 8).  And that the increase in MP on the APS-C sensors, just made for too much noise and other image quality issues.



True, but I was always under the impression that this was more of a view when comparing 100% crops against each other. That the 12-14mp cameras gave a pleasing 100% crop view, whilst the 7D and larger mp sensor sizes ended up giving a less pleasing 100% crop view. I've also read that a lot of it can be because of difference in workflow are needed - the large MP bodies needing a different approach and not giving their best if worked like a lower MP body.


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## MLeeK (Oct 23, 2012)

Big Mike said:


> > I would think that the core noise capabilities of the 7D are pretty much the best canon currently do for 1.6 crop sensor DSLR.
> 
> 
> I know a few photographers who believe that a better balance of sensor size vs MP was somewhere around 12-14MP (or as low as 8).  And that the increase in MP on the APS-C sensors, just made for too much noise and other image quality issues.
> ...


That would be me too. I use my 7D over my 1d Mk III often. I have the a slight extra reach with it, it's  less weight and face it, with a 70-200 that's a big deal.  
 The 1D3 and 5D2 are my portrait and wedding cameras. I care more if something happens to them as they make me more money than the sports stuff does. I have never lost a camera to a sports accident, but I have taken a cleat to the lens before. Be sure to be insured!!!! Plus my 1d 3 is on it's way home from servicing, so I haven't had it for a bit!


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## fjrabon (Oct 23, 2012)

Noise on the 7D isn't debilitating, and it's as good or better than any of the other Canon crop frames, in my experience.  It's not as good as Nikon's most recent crop frames (D7000, D5100 and D3200), I think it's roughly equal to the 60D though.  So, I guess I'd say it's okay, but I wouldn't go out of my way to say the 7D is a good low light performer either.  Low light is one area where Nikon's crop frames SLAUGHTER Canon's crop frames.


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## swiftparkour94 (Oct 23, 2012)

MLeeK said:
			
		

> You've seen my work with the 7D at 12800. I do remove noise in Adobe Camera Raw/Lightroom, but I don't do any other processing.
> Here is my latest post http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/photojournalism-sports-gallery/303245-its-over.html
> Shot with the 7D, ISO 12800; f/4 with the Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 OS. In the rain.
> Note that the lower end bodies do not have a dual wheel system, they have a button system for the aperture and it's damned complicated. They also are plastic and are not weather sealed at all whereas the 7D is magnesium alloy and weather sealed.
> If you want to see those larger just say so and I'll get them for you.



Best as always man  were these JPEG's or RAW's? Also, would Photoshop remove it the same as well or is it considerably worse?


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## swiftparkour94 (Oct 23, 2012)

Thank you everyone! All these replies just made me more excited to grab it haha! Ok...so I'll knock out lenses first, get the 7D, then a good monopod, then more lenses along the road. Going to be awesome  time to find a job haha


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## MLeeK (Oct 23, 2012)

swiftparkour94 said:


> MLeeK said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am not sure what you are asking here. Adobe Camera Raw is a part of PhotoShop
I shoot in raw, process in ACR/Photoshop. 
Here is a larger version of one of them. Just click on it to view


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## swiftparkour94 (Oct 23, 2012)

MLeeK said:
			
		

> I am not sure what you are asking here. Adobe Camera Raw is a part of PhotoShop
> I shoot in raw, process in ACR/Photoshop.
> Here is a larger version of one of them. Just click on it to view



Sorry for not being clear, but I meant noise reduction. Do you do it in camera too? It just looks so good!!!


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## MLeeK (Oct 23, 2012)

With raw images there is no in camera editing done. It's the raw data that hits the sensor.


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## swiftparkour94 (Oct 23, 2012)

MLeeK said:
			
		

> With raw images there is no in camera editing done. It's the raw data that hits the sensor.



Oh ok.....so you shot all these in RAW, too them home, and fixed them up?


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## MLeeK (Oct 23, 2012)

There is no fixed them up to it. I don't edit. OH HELL NO! At 10G a game I am NOT editing all of that. I'd never meet a deadline EVER!


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## swiftparkour94 (Oct 23, 2012)

MLeeK said:
			
		

> You've seen my work with the 7D at 12800. I do remove noise in Adobe Camera Raw/Lightroom, but I don't do any other processing.



You said that you shot at iso 12800. I'm so confused now


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## swiftparkour94 (Oct 23, 2012)

iso 12800 with no pp?


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## jaomul (Oct 24, 2012)

Examples of 7d ISO
1600



bee2 by jaomul, on Flickr
3200



caves grotta di nettuno (3) by jaomul, on Flickr
6400



caves grotta di nettuno (9) by jaomul, on Flickr
12800



Hugh Dillon Blues Band Kellys bar cobh 23rd sept 2012 (7) by jaomul, on Flickr

I have very limited pp/noise reduction ability so someone who has could make these better with a bit of care. But in a pinch 12800 is usable and I do believe the 7d has good high ISO performance irrelevent of what DxO says


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## swiftparkour94 (Oct 24, 2012)

jaomul said:
			
		

> Examples of 7d ISO
> 1600
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/its-been-done-before/7919627218/
> bee2 by jaomul, on Flickr
> ...



You are my new favorite person on here


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## MLeeK (Oct 24, 2012)

swiftparkour94 said:


> iso 12800 with no pp?


This isn't difficult. I do not edit. I process from raw to jpeg as a raw file is not an image file. Noise removal is part of that process in Adobe Camera Raw that removes noise. 
It takes me an hour or less to process somewhere between 200 and 500 shots because I do not edit. 
Processing from raw is not the same as EDITING in PhotoShop. Processing is the film eq of developing


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## swiftparkour94 (Oct 24, 2012)

MLeeK said:
			
		

> This isn't difficult. I do not edit. I process from raw to jpeg as a raw file is not an image file. Noise removal is part of that process in Adobe Camera Raw that removes noise.
> It takes me an hour or less to process somewhere between 200 and 500 shots because I do not edit.
> Processing from raw is not the same as EDITING in PhotoShop. Processing is the film eq of developing



Oh well that's what I meant by editing, noise removal. Thanks though


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## daarksun (Nov 22, 2012)

Noise is not an issue with my 7D. I shot with my 50mm, no flash, handheld with high ISO. Any noise is easily removed using Topaz. All the complaints about how bad the noise is could very well be how the person shooting at night sets up their camera. If you are off my much any camera will show nasty noise, even in a daytime shot.  I have found the 7D to be a fanstastic camera from Canon and would recommend it to anyone.  

Here's an image shot at night at the TI, formally known as Treasure Island. lol


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## TheBiles (Nov 23, 2012)

When I had a 7D, I never really was pleased when I took it over ISO 1600.


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