# 100+ people portrait lighting question



## kbs (Apr 1, 2012)

I've got a question for you that have been in similar situations.  I have an outdoor family reunion of 100+ people coming up.  The plan is to shoot them with the sun setting behind them this summer in more than likely lined up in two rows with; 
- two alien bees 1600s on 9ft max stands (with a PCB power pack and flash triggers)
- I was toying with the idea of bringing my step ladder to add some height to my shot
- The widest lens I own is a 28mm on a crop sensor D7000 (unless I keep my tamron 17-55 I am selling)
Another thing to note is they are people of color so I may need to increase the light a stop or two correct? 
So the questions are, 
- Is this going to work? lol
- What light modifiers if any should I use if any or should I just bare bulb it and use the Alien Bees reflectors.  
- Would I have any use for my SB700 flash? (If so I would have to buy another flash trigger) 
- How far apart should my strobes be?
- Would I be wise to save up for a light meter for this one? 
That is all I can come up with at the moment.  
Thanks in advance for the good advice I hope I will be getting.


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## RobertOK (Apr 1, 2012)

Based on doing a group of about 50, here is my advice:

* 100 people in two rows would be VERY wide, consider 3 rows of 33 or even 4 rows of 25
* consider a row of chairs in the front row
* you did not mention demographics - kids??  If kids, get all the adults arranged first.  Have some distractions / attention getters for kids or babies to look at the camera.  Make it a contest for the kids to see who can look at the camera the longest
* Ask everyone if they can see the camera lens when they are arranged
* arrange your people into 4 or 5 groups according to what row and then arrange them group by group
* ladder would be good, you will have easier time seeing all faces
* Wider lense would give you more options, if this is an important shot, then RENT a new lens and do it ahead of time.  Use an Aperature of at least f8 to get some depth
* backlit with sun seems like you are making it more challenging on  yourself
* bring some orange cones to set up your width after you set you ladder.  be sure to remove the cones before the shot
* have one or two assistants (or pick people from the group) to keep people lined up


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## Robin Usagani (Apr 1, 2012)

Ill be more worried about how to put them all together to be visible on the camera.  Personally I wouldnt go wider than 50mm.


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## RobertOK (Apr 1, 2012)

Schwettylens said:


> Ill be more worried about how to put them all together to be visible on the camera.  Personally I wouldnt go wider than 50mm.



I don't understand how you would fit 100 people with a 50mm on a crop camera (d7000), maybe I am missing something.  Or do you mean 50mm on a full frame?


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## Robin Usagani (Apr 1, 2012)

RobertOK said:


> Schwettylens said:
> 
> 
> > Ill be more worried about how to put them all together to be visible on the camera.  Personally I wouldnt go wider than 50mm.
> ...



?  I can take a picture of the whole Earth if I take my 50 mm to outer space.


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## RobertOK (Apr 1, 2012)

LOL -- exactly, i just meant wouldn't you have to be really far back with 50mm on a crop camera to fit that many people.  No worries.


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## Robin Usagani (Apr 1, 2012)

If you use really wide angle, aunt Sally wont be happy with her photo if she is standing close to the edge of the photo.  Look at this photo I took.  Notice the people on the left  look more stretched than the middle?  You dont want that.


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## KmH (Apr 1, 2012)

That is barrel distortion. Barrel distortion varies depending on the lens.

My favorite group shot lens was the Nikon 24-85mm f/2.8-4.0D IF AF Zoom Nikkor Lens for Nikon Digital SLR Cameras because it has very little barrel distortion at 24 mm. I also usually used that lens on a crop body.

RobertOK is right that 50 people wide isn't a good idea. What it boils down to is that each person would be very small in the image frame, and nearly unrecognizable. Frankly, even 25 wide will be pushing it.
Also, 2 AB's wouldn't evenly light 50 people wide. It would tale more like 4 or 5 AB's to do that.

I agree you will need to get the camera up, but not to high up. I take it you won't be in the shot? 
The lights up the full 9 feet too, so any head shadows fall _below_ the faces in the next row back and far enough apart to light 25 people wide evenly.

Kids sitting on the ground in front, second row of kids on knees for 2nd row, adults/bigger kids in chairs make 3rd row, 4th row of adults standing.


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## cgipson1 (Apr 1, 2012)

I agree with Schwetty...  a wide angle can cause distortion. With a good, top of the line lens, the distortion will be minimized. A good 50mm price would work great.. and if you go 33 wide or 25 wide, you won't have to back up too far. 

Personally I think would rent a full frame body for that shot... even though I think the D7000 would do a good job.  I would definitely do some bracketing...  just to try to get good exposures on everyone.

Good luck!


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## 2WheelPhoto (Apr 1, 2012)

People will gain weight in their face and arse the wider you get past 50mm. They may get shorter too.  How dow you want them to appear?  If they are anorexic and tall, you may be the groups next hero. If not, you may be the zero  =)


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## gsgary (Apr 1, 2012)

Why not take smaller groups and make a montage


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## Sw1tchFX (Apr 1, 2012)

If you're going to have the sunset behind them, you'll need a pretty tight aperture to keep the sun from blowing out to paper white at 1/250th (unless you shoot film LOL)

Speaking from experience..keep the wide angle, get a ladder out, rent two high-roller's and sandbags, rent two 2400ws lights like Speedotron's, Profoto's, or Broncolor's, use 12 inch magnum reflectors, nuke it at f/16 and 1/250th. That should be pretty close to get the sunset, and will let the sun act as a nice hairlight without blowing things out, and give you enough power to get some DOF. Wouldn't be too surprised if you needed 4800ws packs. 

Did that a few years ago shooting a Sales meeting with 200 people in it.


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## EchoingWhisper (Apr 1, 2012)

Even without barrel distortion, you still get volume anamorphosis. I suggest you to shoot with less people and shoot as long of a focal length as possible. Also, at that distance from subject, I think that depth of field would not be a problem.


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## Sw1tchFX (Apr 1, 2012)

EchoingWhisper said:


> Even without barrel distortion, you still get volume anamorphosis. I suggest you to shoot with less people and shoot as long of a focal length as possible. Also, at that distance from subject, I think that depth of field would not be a problem.


Shoot with less people? LOL sure..


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## gsgary (Apr 1, 2012)

If you poison half of them it will be much easier


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## KmH (Apr 1, 2012)

EchoingWhisper said:


> Even without barrel distortion, you still get volume anamorphosis. I suggest you to shoot with less people and shoot as long of a focal length as possible. Also, at that distance from subject, I think that depth of field would not be a problem.


 How many group portraits have you ever shot?  

Shoot with less people? It's a family reunion. Everyone needs to be in one shot.


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## Robin Usagani (Apr 1, 2012)

Fewer people you mean?


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## kbs (Apr 1, 2012)

Thanks for most of the replies lol.  Well I am not getting paid for this gig and I went and bought my second AB1600 sooner just to attempt to make this even possible.  How far away from the cam should the subjects be? Err.. actually I am sure that is lens dependent, so forget that one.  Hmm, if we poach picnic tables (if there are some) 3 rows of people would be possible, another row sitting is 4.... maybe I can do this. 
Since no one else jumped in yet I will add this idea to my post.  What if I take a shot with all the people absent exposed for the sunset and combine it with the shot of the family members in photoshop?  Of course my camera will have to somehow not move on top of the ladder as if it were on a tripod, so maybe that wont work so well for me after all.


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## EchoingWhisper (Apr 2, 2012)

kbs said:
			
		

> Thanks for most of the replies lol.  Well I am not getting paid for this gig and I went and bought my second AB1600 sooner just to attempt to make this even possible.  How far away from the cam should the subjects be? Err.. actually I am sure that is lens dependent, so forget that one.  Hmm, if we poach picnic tables (if there are some) 3 rows of people would be possible, another row sitting is 4.... maybe I can do this.
> Since no one else jumped in yet I will add this idea to my post.  What if I take a shot with all the people absent exposed for the sunset and combine it with the shot of the family members in photoshop?  Of course my camera will have to somehow not move on top of the ladder as if it were on a tripod, so maybe that wont work so well for me after all.



Just avoid shooting with a lens too wide.


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## cnutco (Apr 2, 2012)

Get up in the air!

Rent a lift or something so that you can shoot from a raised angle.


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## Village Idiot (Apr 2, 2012)

I don't think the bees will be powerful enough.

The problem is if they're out of frame they're going to be on the sides and you'll have to have them far enough away from the group so they don't cause amssive falloff leaving a few people exposed and a few not. I'm thinking your best bet may be indoors with using the ceiling as a giant reflector.


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## PrashantP (Apr 2, 2012)

My only suggestion is do not use wide angle lens. They will just ruin the whole photo. As someone suggested make 4 rows or you can make them to stand like a HALF-TRIANGLE . This way you can capture the whole unit


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## Helen B (Apr 2, 2012)

Village Idiot said:


> I don't think the bees will be powerful enough.
> 
> The problem is if they're out of frame they're going to be on the sides and you'll have to have them far enough away from the group so they don't cause amssive falloff leaving a few people exposed and a few not. I'm thinking your best bet may be indoors with using the ceiling as a giant reflector.



I agree. With just two 640 Ws strobes (that's what AB1600s are) you may have problems with uneven lighting for that size of group.


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## Village Idiot (Apr 2, 2012)

Here's a shoot done by Jack Hartzman of Washington Talent Agency that includes a lot more than 100 people. The video says 250 people.

Corporate Photography | Washington Talent Agency | Maryland, Washington DC


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## mommy-medic (Apr 4, 2012)

Got any bleachers or wide stairs nearby?


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## kundalini (Apr 4, 2012)

Wouldn't you have less lighting issues if you did a 180°?  Have the sunset behind you, which will light the group.  You could then still use your lights as Fill.

Just a random thought.


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## KmH (Apr 4, 2012)

Village Idiot said:


> Here's a shoot done by Jack Hartzman of Washington Talent Agency that includes a lot more than 100 people. The video says 250 people.
> 
> Corporate Photography | Washington Talent Agency | Maryland, Washington DC



You have to infer that what is in the back 6 rows are actually people.


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## kbs (Apr 5, 2012)

kundalini said:


> Wouldn't you have less lighting issues if you did a 180°?  Have the sunset behind you, which will light the group.  You could then still use your lights as Fill.
> 
> Just a random thought.



At this point I am willing to do whatever it takes to get a useable shot.  So I an teetering between that and the bracketed exposures idea brought up by a poster earlier.  Thanks though, I didn't even consider it because I wanted to be mr. fancy pants.


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## kbs (Apr 5, 2012)

mommy-medic said:


> Got any bleachers or wide stairs nearby?


I'm not sure, does anyone know Belle Isle in the "D" that well?  						Because I do not.


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## kbs (Apr 5, 2012)

gsgary said:


> If you poison half of them it will be much easier


That could make my life easier if I choose the right half... it's my in-laws reunion. :lmao:


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## Buckster (Apr 5, 2012)

kbs said:


> mommy-medic said:
> 
> 
> > Got any bleachers or wide stairs nearby?
> ...


The fountain has stairs you can use, and the fountain itself (if on) makes for an interesting background.


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## Edsport (Apr 5, 2012)

Here's another idea to get even lighting with 2 rows of 50 people. I have never tried it so this is just an idea, not sure if it will work.

Use the lights you have to light just enough people so that they are all properly lighted (lets say 2 rows of 10 people or 20 etc) then move the lights to the right and set up another 2 rows of 10 people or 20 and take a shot. Keep doing this until you have all 100 people then stitch the photos. If you don't want it to look like a panorama, take shots vertically as well. Just an idea that popped in my head. May or may not work. Don't bash me lol...


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## zamanakhan (Apr 5, 2012)

get 3 cameras with the same lens on em and do a panoramic shot by placing them with 15% overlapping frame, all triggered at the same time, with wireless triggers? 

could be done...


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## kbs (Apr 5, 2012)

I appreciate all the ideas because my wife and I plan on using/trying quite a few of them.  Some of the ideas people are coming up with would be way over my budget for a free gig though.  
So if your advice requires me having a few more thousand dollars worth of gear please include a financial contribution.  I'll quickly send you my paypal information.


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## kbs (Apr 5, 2012)

Buckster said:


> kbs said:
> 
> 
> > mommy-medic said:
> ...


I think that might be my first choice now, thanks Buckster.


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## Edsport (Apr 5, 2012)

zamanakhan said:


> get 3 cameras with the same lens on em and do a panoramic shot by placing them with 15% overlapping frame, all triggered at the same time, with wireless triggers?
> 
> could be done...


Could be done but won't be even lighting...


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