# How old is too old for a camera or is there such a thing?



## Shutterpug (Apr 13, 2017)

So I know that like most things in life cameras have a shelf life. They break down after so many clicks and pops and whirls and various things but how old is too old for a camera? Let's just pretend for a minute that I have one of the original cameras with the hood that you put over your head and the gunpowder flash. Is that too old to be taken seriously as photography or is there a time limit? Also I don't have one of those cameras. Wish I did though. 'Twould be cool.


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## Designer (Apr 13, 2017)

Shutterpug said:


> So I know that like most things in life cameras have a shelf life. They break down after so many clicks and pops and whirls and various things but how old is too old for a camera? Let's just pretend for a minute that I have one of the original cameras with the hood that you put over your head and the gunpowder flash. Is that too old to be taken seriously as photography or is there a time limit? Also I don't have one of those cameras. Wish I did though. 'Twould be cool.


If you can afford it, and if you have some way to develop the film, then go for it! 

I suggest the 4x5 size format for ease of finding film and developing, but people still do use them.  In fact, you can purchase one new, if you are interested.  Go visit a camera store, and they can provide the details and get you started.


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## greybeard (Apr 13, 2017)

If it has no light leaks, the lens has no huge scratches or cloudy fungus, and the in lens shutter and aperture are working properly, it should be good to go no matter how old it is.  Assuming it takes film that is available like 4x5.


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## runnah (Apr 13, 2017)

If it takes film...


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## 480sparky (Apr 13, 2017)

One of my cameras was made in 1909.  It still works.

Using gunpowder for a flash is, today, a really really really bad idea.




runnah said:


> If it takes film...



If it takes film _that is still available_.


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## dxqcanada (Apr 13, 2017)

Umm, you can still buy cameras that you have to put a cover over your head to use -> Large Format Cameras | B&H Photo Video
As long as the parts are in working order, the lens is clear, and you can still get/make film/plates for it ... there ain't no such thing as too old.
I have some cameras about 70+ years old that are still usable.


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## Shutterpug (Apr 13, 2017)

What's a good place to find used cameras for those of us who are...um..."financially challenged" at the moment? Any one ever find any goodies at flea markets and yard sales?


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## DGMPhotography (Apr 13, 2017)

Would be cool!


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## Ysarex (Apr 13, 2017)

Shutterpug said:


> What's a good place to find used cameras for those of us who are...um..."financially challenged" at the moment? Any one ever find any goodies at flea markets and yard sales?



shopgoodwill.com - Welcome

Joe


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## dxqcanada (Apr 13, 2017)

Goodwill store, Salvation Army store ... Flea Markets are just commercial rip-offs. 
You might get lucky at a yard sale (if the people do not have Internet, or don't know how to search), but most people have watched too many episodes of Antiques Roadshow.


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## Shutterpug (Apr 13, 2017)

dxqcanada said:


> Goodwill store, Salvation Army store ... Flea Markets are just commercial rip-offs.
> You might get lucky at a yard sale (if the people do not have Internet, or don't know how to search), but most people have watched too many episodes of Antiques Roadshow.


 Well I live in smalltown Mississippi and as far as I know there's not a whole lot of interest in photography around here. Most of peoples interest here lies in scraping by day to day and fishing and hunting so maybe I'll get lucky.


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## 480sparky (Apr 13, 2017)

Shutterpug said:


> What's a good place to find used cameras for those of us who are...um..."financially challenged" at the moment? Any one ever find any goodies at flea markets and yard sales?



4x5 gear can be _stupendously_ cheap.  Yes, some stuff like Sinar and Linhof can run $4 digits just for the body & rail.  But do your homework and watch ebay.  Bide your time and your ship will come in.  Names like Toyo, Calumet and Cambo can be had literally dirt cheap.

But keep in mind you are buying, usually, just the camera body.  You'll need to add things like lenses, lens boards, film holders, a groundglass (if the camera doesn't come with one), a focus magnifier, your much-coveted focus hood, a sturdy tripod, cable releases, etc.

But honestly, you'll get more people coming up to you when you're out shooting with a 4x5 field camera than anything else. And if you plan on field work, make sure to get a 'field' camera....not a 'rail' camera that's more meant for studio work.


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## tirediron (Apr 13, 2017)

480sparky said:


> Using gunpowder for a flash is, today, a really really really bad idea.
> ..



Ummm... using gunpowder for a flash has ALWAYS been a bad idea.


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## Shutterpug (Apr 13, 2017)

tirediron said:


> 480sparky said:
> 
> 
> > Using gunpowder for a flash is, today, a really really really bad idea.
> ...


 Then what did they use to get the flash way back when?


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## 480sparky (Apr 13, 2017)

Shutterpug said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> > 480sparky said:
> ...



Gunpowder.

And yes, people were burned and blinded.  And buildings burned down.


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## Shutterpug (Apr 13, 2017)

Well doesn't that just sound like oodles of fun? "Hey darlin get the kids. One of those traveling photographers is passing by. Let's go stand rigidly still for 5 minutes and risk blindness."


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## 480sparky (Apr 13, 2017)

I've read on some of the film forums where people have made modern electronic versions.  They're actually adapted modern LED speedlights they've built by hand to look like the old-fashioned flash trays.  Some have even gone so far as to add a little fog machine to them to simulate the smoke.


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## Shutterpug (Apr 13, 2017)

That's a good idea but I couldn't use one personally. I'm just too much of a purist. Not that I don't try to relax on that but it is who I am.


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## DarkShadow (Apr 13, 2017)

Whoa Gun powder flash,Would you like to see your prints  sir of the brides head blown clean off.


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## Shutterpug (Apr 13, 2017)

DarkShadow said:


> Whoa Gun powder flash,Would you like to see your prints  sir of the brides head blown clean off.


 Well a newly wed wouldn't want that but give the marriage ten or twenty years and the husband may sing a different tune.


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## KmH (Apr 13, 2017)

480sparky said:


> One of my cameras was made in 1909.  It still works.
> 
> Using gunpowder for a flash is, today, a really really really bad idea.
> 
> ...


Back when, they didn't use gunpowder to add light to photos.
Flash-lamp - Wikipedia


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## Shutterpug (Apr 13, 2017)

It seems even with the improved Flash-lamp they had the burned hands issue.


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## 480sparky (Apr 13, 2017)

As a kid, I burned every finger I have changing out flash cubes too soon.


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## Shutterpug (Apr 13, 2017)

Sounds like you made the band-aid companies some good money.


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## vintagesnaps (Apr 13, 2017)

Why d'ya think he's called Sparky?! (Actually I think it has to do with being an electrician.)

At some point they had flash that used a strip of, um I can't remember offhand what. Looked like a piece of string. They laid that in a flash pan and lighted it. There were actually fires from the flash sometimes. 

If you look up the George Eastman House there was a video by an instructor named Mark Osterman(sp?) where he actually lighted and used a flashpan. Not practical for real life use and better to use in a supervised setting with someone like him who knows what they're doing. 

Also try Film Photography Project | An Internet Radio Show & On-Line Resource for Film Shooters Worldwide - there's a guy named Mat Marrash that does large format (the large cameras that used 8x10 negatives) and he may have a video etc. on there (I haven't kept up with them lately). 

Besides places already mentioned you could try Midwest Photo Exchange and Pittsburgh Camera Exchange for used/vintage cameras. Adorama and B&H also sell used/some vintage (although won't ship next week til after Passover). KEH Photo has older film & vintage cameras on their ebay page.

I have a 100+ year old camera and several that are midcentury; most still work or were just too cool to pass up and are for display.


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## 480sparky (Apr 13, 2017)

vintagesnaps said:


> ..............
> At some point they had flash that used a strip of, um I can't remember offhand what. Looked like a piece of string. They laid that in a flash pan and lighted it. There were actually fires from the flash sometimes..............



Magnesium.


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## Designer (Apr 13, 2017)

Shutterpug said:


> Then what did they use to get the flash way back when?


It was powdered magnesium, not gunpowder.


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## Shutterpug (Apr 13, 2017)

Correct me if I'm wrong but does magnesium have to be ignited about 4000 degrees? Have I been under estimating the temperature of a burning match?


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## Designer (Apr 13, 2017)

Shutterpug said:


> What's a good place to find used cameras for those of us who are...um..."financially challenged" at the moment? Any one ever find any goodies at flea markets and yard sales?


Let's just put you into one of the more modern digital cameras.  Have a look at Adorama, B&H, and KEH.  All are reputable dealers who grade their trade-ins accurately, and price them fairly. 

Take your budget on a little online shopping trip. 

Just you and your budget. 

And several dozen of us here on TPF.


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## Designer (Apr 13, 2017)

Shutterpug said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but does magnesium have to be ignited about 4000 degrees? Have I been under estimating the temperature of a burning match?


I'm thinking that might be the temperature of the burning, but the old flash pans had a flint and steel striking wheel that would get it going.  The photographer would frame, focus, insert the film holder, remind the subjects to hold still, open the shutter, and squeeze the igniter, causing the powder to "flash" burn.  It was fairly fast, but not nearly as fast as today's electronic strobe flashes.


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## Designer (Apr 13, 2017)

Shutterpug said:


> Sounds like you made the band-aid companies some good money.


Whaaaa???   You had Band-Aids?   Luuuucccckkkkkeeeee!


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## Derrel (Apr 13, 2017)

Designer said:
			
		

> Let's just put you into one of the more modern digital cameras.  Have a look at Adorama, B&H, and KEH.  All are reputable dealers who grade their trade-ins accurately, and price them fairly.
> 
> Take your budget on a little online shopping trip.
> 
> ...



EXACTLY--get a modern, digital camera. No sense learning how to make recordings on wax cylinders, or learning how to drive with a horse and buggy, no learning how to cook with a wood-fired kitchen oven...digital image-making has been around for 16  to 18 years as a common, everyday way of doing it. We got our first digitial, a Nikon CollPix 800, in 1998 or 1999. Just looked at Thanksgiving pictures the other day from that very first Digital Thanksgiving.


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## Shutterpug (Apr 13, 2017)

Flint and steel you say? Aha! The plot thickens! But that does make sense that would ignite it.  It's always fascinated me how human beings have been able to invent such intricate and amazing devices such as prosthetic limbs cameras cars Etc. Imagine where we would be as a species if we could stop the violins and visualize whirled peas.


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## DanOstergren (Apr 13, 2017)

And here I thought my Canon 5D MK I was old...


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## vintagesnaps (Apr 13, 2017)

You can shoot film and still use a digital camera too. Just like you can cook on an electric stove and still cook over a campfire. Or in whatever smoker contraption Gary A. has on his patio paradise.

I was looking at pictures over the holidays from B&W film my dad left in the camera he had in the army and I finished the rest of the roll some years ago (after it had been sitting in the camera for maybe 40-50 years).



edit - And Polaroids too (for photography not grilling).


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## petrochemist (Apr 14, 2017)

KmH said:


> Back when, they didn't use gunpowder to add light to photos.
> Flash-lamp - Wikipedia


 Those weren't available for more than 50 years of photography.
Magnesium powder (typically with a nitrate or chlorate) was used before the flash lamps. Before that just LONG exposures seem to have sufficed.

Film photograph is not really for the 'financially challenged' however, especially not large format where film tends to be ~$100 a box. It is possible to make your own light sensitive media for LF cameras. Some of the early photographic techniques do lend themselves to experiments like this - Salt prints are possibly the easiest - but effective ISO will be very low & vary from batch to batch.


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## waday (Apr 14, 2017)

Just buy LF digital.

LargeSense Large Format Digital Backs and Cameras

You know, if you have $100k lying around.


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## Shutterpug (Apr 14, 2017)

Oh sure let me just dig that out of my couch cushions.


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## 480sparky (Apr 14, 2017)

Pffft.  I tip my paperboy more than that every week.


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## Shutterpug (Apr 14, 2017)

Sounds like I need to get a job as your paperboy.


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## webestang64 (Apr 14, 2017)

I still shoot with 50-75 year old film cameras.


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## nerwin (Apr 18, 2017)

I'd say when a) camera physically stops functioning and b) limits you as a photographer is when the camera is too old and time for it to be retired and put on display. Haha.


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## dennybeall (Apr 23, 2017)

Let me get some film from the case and I'll be ready in just a minute...


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