# Lighting and Bounce Diffusers



## charles181 (Jan 22, 2010)

Hey guys. I was looking at several professional portraits, and I couldn't help but realizing the awesome lighting job they do. I know they have some umbrellas tilted probably at 45 degrees on the four corners of the object, but can someone either teach me some cool techniques other than that, or link me to a place that can (in case you don't want to type that much).

Also regarding bounce diffusers like sto-fen, what're they good for? Is it primarily to reduce the lighting exposed on the subject so it doesn't "ruin the mood"?. Do bounce diffusers serve more of a purpose than that? 

Thanks!

Also, I want to get into some cool lighting tricks, but I don't have any professional setups. Is there any other alternative I can do with just a 430ex?


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## Big Mike (Jan 22, 2010)

> and I couldn't help but realizing the awesome lighting job they do


Photography.  Photo (meaning light) + graphy (meaning drawing).  So photography literally means drawing with light.  It's all about light.

I'd suggest finding some good books on the subject.  They shouldn't be too hard to find in a library because the principles of light haven't changed with the digital era, so a 20 year old book on lighting is probably as good or better than a book published two years ago.  



> Also regarding bounce diffusers like sto-fen, what're they good for? Is it primarily to reduce the lighting exposed on the subject so it doesn't "ruin the mood"?. Do bounce diffusers serve more of a purpose than that?


Most of them (Stofen Omnibounce, GF Lightsphere etc.) are meant to be used when you are bouncing the flash.  
Bouncing your flash is probably the easiest way to improve on-camera flash.  When it's pointed directly at your subject, the light is rather flat (even) and the size of the light source (flash) compared to the subject, is pretty small, which makes for 'hard' light.  But when you aim the flash at the ceiling (or wall etc.) the bounce surface then becomes the light source, which is now much bigger compared to the subject, so you get much softer light.  One problem with bouncing light off of the ceiling, is that the light is now coming down onto your subject, similar to sunlight...and this may cause shadows (raccoon eyes for example).  
That's where these flash accessories come in.  The Omnibounce lets some of the light go out to bounce, but it also throws some of it forward, directly to the subject and filling in those shadows.  A simple bounce card can do the same thing.  Some accessorizes, like the lightsphere, throw light in all directions, hoping that it bounces off a lot of surfaces and gets back to the subject very soft.  It works well in some situations but is very wasteful in other situations.  

The best thing you can do, to improve your lighting technique, would be to get the flash off the camera.  With the flash off the camera, you can use directional light, which allows you to 'sculpt' your subject with light and shadow.  With the flash on a stand, you can add useful accessories like an umbrella or softbox etc.  

Read everything you can on THIS SITE.
Starting with THIS PAGE.


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## Nic Nube (Jan 22, 2010)

There is so much 'free' light around and its real nice too! I think these gimmicks just cost you an arm and a leg for nothing. sorry mr fong and co

Shoot where the light is good and make it work for you..whats easier seting up your octa and ranger rx with remote triggers and the works or picking a nice location where the light is as good. studio lighting is great if you live in a cave imo..light is light and if you shooting people you dont need fancy junk imo
Im not Ansel f adams but Im tired of gimmicks ..the world is a gimmick


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## AliasPros (Jan 22, 2010)

charles181 said:


> Hey guys. I was looking at several professional portraits, and I couldn't help but realizing the awesome lighting job they do. I know they have some umbrellas tilted probably at 45 degrees on the four corners of the object, but can someone either teach me some cool techniques other than that, or link me to a place that can (in case you don't want to type that much).
> 
> Also regarding bounce diffusers like sto-fen, what're they good for? Is it primarily to reduce the lighting exposed on the subject so it doesn't "ruin the mood"?. Do bounce diffusers serve more of a purpose than that?
> 
> ...


I use 580exII after my 430 broke... I also love the Gary Fong light diffuser "Cloud" as the light it gives off is so smooth and soft, very little shine on the face even outside of studio such crouded receptions etc... for the price  you cant go wrong. 











Here is the next one I am looking into picking up, the "Whale Tale"


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## ChasK (Jan 22, 2010)

Nic Nube said:


> There is so much 'free' light around and its real nice too! I think these gimmicks just cost you an arm and a leg for nothing. sorry mr fong and co
> 
> Shoot where the light is good and make it work for you..whats easier seting up your octa and ranger rx with remote triggers and the works or picking a nice location where the light is as good. studio lighting is great if you live in a cave imo..light is light and if you shooting people you dont need fancy junk imo
> Im not Ansel f adams but Im tired of gimmicks ..the world is a gimmick



Light is not just light!  There are colors, temperatures, umbra, penumbra, feathering, inverse square law, and much much more,  but your right, you don't need to buy every piece junk that comes down the road.  Long before Fong a simple white index card and a rubber band would do the very same thing.  Total cost less than a nickel.  Or you could bounce your light off someone's white shirt or a wall even. If you want something that looks better than an index card and rubber band check out dembflashproducts.com.  I think you'll find it works at least as good, I think better, for a lot less money.  

Did you know you can cut a hole in the top of a cd/dvd plastic cylinder, throw the spool away, and you have a Fong style light modifier.  Get a sample gel pack from B&H for a dollar and you just saved yourself a bout $100 and you'll have a lot more colors to play with. It won't look as pretty (depends on how crafty your are) but you can play with little or no investment.


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## AliasPros (Jan 22, 2010)

ChasK said:


> Nic Nube said:
> 
> 
> > Did you know you can cut a hole in the top of a cd/dvd plastic cylinder, throw the spool away, and you have a Fong style light modifier.  Get a sample gel pack from B&H for a dollar and you just saved yourself a bout $100 and you'll have a lot more colors to play with. It won't look as pretty (depends on how crafty your are) but you can play with little or no investment.
> ...


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## Layspeed (Jan 23, 2010)

AliasPros said:


> ...
> Just some food for thought before you try and retrofit something cheesy. I never road with a baseball cards in my spokes, I bought a dirtbike with my paper route money.



I used an crushed soda can on my back tire :lmao::thumbup:

I bet the "real" photographer wanted to kick your ass!


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## WaywardShinobi (Jan 23, 2010)

Layspeed said:


> I used an crushed soda can on my back tire :lmao::thumbup:



As did I, worked much better than a card.

Speaking of card, I've seen a photographer in my area use card stock in front of a shop light.  The shop light was powered with two nine volts, lol.  Around here, we use all we can to get whatever job we do done.  He's one of only two photographers within an hour or so of me.


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## AliasPros (Feb 1, 2010)

WOW Santa Barbara and San Louis Obispo California (snooty wine country) is inundated by photographers and they it's an upscale market where you gotta stay up with your equipment (I do pretty well in that respect). I wish I was in an area where I was in more demand. However my equipment is growing and word of mouth has been great since a lot of people already recommend me from my videography also... 

Hmmm... Crushed soda cans huh? never thought of that, it was just easier and more reliable to buy me the 50cc with paper route money... always been a hustler that way. Anyone else feel me on the professional flash diffuser???


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## keith foster (Feb 1, 2010)

There are lots of tutorials out there showing how to get very good shots with a lot of makeshift lighting techniques.  
I think if you can consistently get the results you want and people like it then most folks don't care how or what you used to get it.   
This may not apply to weddings though.  I could see a bride passing out if she caught you crushing a beer can to use as a diffuser at the wedding.


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## ChasK (Feb 1, 2010)

I wouldn't recommend taking the homemade stuff to a paid gig, could you imagine the look on the Bride's face.  Now there's a Kodak moment.  The homemade stuff is good to play and learn from without the investment.  But taking a bag full of home made junk to a paid event would be about as classy as trying upstage the paid photographer and passing out business cards at an event or wedding.


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## mrmacedonian (Feb 1, 2010)

ChasK said:


> taking a bag full of home made junk to a paid event would be about as classy as trying upstage the paid photographer and passing out business cards at an event or wedding.



:thumbup:


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## keith foster (Feb 1, 2010)

:thumbup:   You nailed that one Charles.


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## AliasPros (Feb 4, 2010)

ChasK said:


> I wouldn't recommend taking the homemade stuff to a paid gig, could you imagine the look on the Bride's face.  Now there's a Kodak moment.  The homemade stuff is good to play and learn from without the investment.  But taking a bag full of home made junk to a paid event would be about as classy as trying upstage the paid photographer and passing out business cards at an event or wedding.



I agree with the home made stuff, learning tricks are cool but when your out shooting a gig its a different level, as for spreading out cards I only gave them out to people who requested them, not my fault I made an impression. As a freelance photog I would be a fool to be caught anywhere without my BC's ready to had out. I was asked to bring my camera as well as a friend and covered the "audience behind the scenes perspective." Worked out nice... Another conversation starter I am planning to use is my custom hand pinstriped lens hood! It's workin already and the paint is hardly dry!!! LOL hey I am a hustler what can I say? I take business how I can get it, there is a lot of competition out here. If I was not aggressive I wouldn't be able to afford my equipment at this rate as fast as I am accumulating it with this economy... I have a very aggressive approach and going to hit television marketing and online marketing next...   IDEAS? THOUGHTS?











You can still see the guides from the grease pencil, those will be cleaned this is hood and cap for my 70-200mm f/2.8L! I love it!!! matched with the colors of lens perfectly. I will post pics with full set up as soon as it's cleaned and finished...


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## Sachphotography (Feb 4, 2010)

Hmm /\/\/\/\/\/\ That is something else....


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## ChasK (Feb 4, 2010)

Let me see if I understand, your screwing the photographer who asked you the help out, out of his referrals and your proud of it?  The Bride thought you were good enough for crowd scenes, but not good enough to hire for the important shots, so you decided to act like a jerk and show them up by stealing referrals?  Since when is a wedding or any event about the photographer?  Wouldn't a true professional maintain a low profile and record the events as he/she is hired to rather than try to steal the spotlight for himself?  You know what they say big ego, small..., could someone here be over compensating?  Dose the end really justify the means?  Do you even understand normal social conventions?  How dose you being a cheap hustler relate to bounce diffusers?


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## inTempus (Feb 4, 2010)

AliasPros said:


> Here is the next one I am looking into picking up, the "Whale Tale"


That picture is typical of the Gary Fong marketing machine.  The pic on the left has been taken with a flash pointed directly at the subject, not bounced.  No one in their right mind would do that.  If the shot were taken with the flash bounced, you wouldn't see much of a difference in the shots at all.

I own a Fong as I didn't know any better when I bought it.  I believed the marketing hype.  I've since had it a year and used it in a number of situations, and even done tests with it and determined that it has a very narrow application and in most cases a bare bounced flash does as good or better.

Examples:














As you can see the light from the bare bounced flash is very similar to the Fong with the dome removed.  With the dome in place, the light is quite harsh.

As for the Whale Tail, here's a technical review of flash defusers where the Whale Tail comes in dead last.

The Best Flash Diffuser @ PHOTO-TIPS-ONLINE.com

You'll notice in the review all of the top performers are bounce cards.  In my test above I didn't use an additional bounce card but I did use the built in bounce card in the 580EXII.


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## inTempus (Feb 4, 2010)

ChasK said:


> But taking a bag full of home made junk to a paid event would be about as classy as trying upstage the paid photographer and passing out business cards at an event or wedding.


Yup, it's in my contract that I will be the only photographer there.  If I have an issue with another guest with a camera interfering with my work, I reserve the right to ask that person to either stop what they're doing, leave or I leave without penalty.

I'm sure this photog learned his lesson and hopefully amended his contract to deal with such guests in the future.


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## Felix0890 (Feb 4, 2010)

AliasPros said:


> You can still see the guides from the grease pencil, those will be cleaned this is hood and cap for my 70-200mm f/2.8L! I love it!!! matched with the colors of lens perfectly. I will post pics with full set up as soon as it's cleaned and finished...


 
Why would you do that to the lens hood?  It not only looks tacky and immature, but you actually ask people for money to shoot with that?  I'm sorry but if I were the customer, I'd like my photographer to be as professional as possible, and that "custom" lenshood screams "fire me and hire a pro!"


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## AliasPros (Feb 4, 2010)

ChasK said:


> Let me see if I understand, your screwing the photographer who asked you the help out, out of his referrals and your proud of it?  The Bride thought you were good enough for crowd scenes, but not good enough to hire for the important shots, so you decided to act like a jerk and show them up by stealing referrals?  Since when is a wedding or any event about the photographer?  Wouldn't a true professional maintain a low profile and record the events as he/she is hired to rather than try to steal the spotlight for himself?  You know what they say big ego, small..., could someone here be over compensating?  Dose the end really justify the means?  Do you even understand normal social conventions?  How dose you being a cheap hustler relate to bounce diffusers?




wow dude! calm down you need a hug, I didn't steal thunder and the bride didn't hire me because she is my cousin and wanted me to just relax have a good time and shoot some candids, it was a bonus that I shot anything, she loved all the pics and the professional guy's were phenomenal, I was cool with him, even let him borrow my 10-20mm sigma for dancing shots,  all I am saying is that the Fong drew attention to business, when I shoot video I also leave on my narly wireless microphone setup even though I am not using it just so it draws attention and give me the opportunity to talk to the guests on down time when they ask "hey what does that do?" etc. Just trying to give other photogs advice and that the Fong just by the looks of it has brought me work (this is our ultimate goal no?), take it how you wanna take it, if you wanna flame me up over it be my guest this is all I am gonna reply to you.


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## AliasPros (Feb 4, 2010)

Felix0890 said:


> AliasPros said:
> 
> 
> > You can still see the guides from the grease pencil, those will be cleaned this is hood and cap for my 70-200mm f/2.8L! I love it!!! matched with the colors of lens perfectly. I will post pics with full set up as soon as it's cleaned and finished...
> ...



I think outside the box, I may be a little loud but bottom line is I am making enough money, to keep buying sick equipment left and right, isn't this the point??? I will use a CD spindle as a defuser when I can't afford a better one because of lack of gigs...

About the lens hood...
That's why I have more then one, I shoot a lot of rapper's album covers and car shows and a lot of live hip hop events, its a conversation starter. Lens hoods are cheap, if it gets me to hand out a few cards then it did it's job? Look people my goal is to be a great photography and enjoy the art but when it comes down to the end of the day I am in it to put food on my table. If I am shooting Paris Hilton I might rock a pink lens hood with bling on it, does anyone feel my point??? I would be a fool to actually stripe my real L lens! I am a rookie and don't have my say so on here so go ahead flame me up...


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## Felix0890 (Feb 4, 2010)

AliasPros said:


> I think outside the box, I may be a little loud but bottom line is I am making enough money, to keep buying sick equipment left and right, isn't this the point???


 
Not from photography you're not. You said it yourself in other posts: you may have all that shiny equipment that you bought from your graphic design income, but you've got no experience with it. We're in a *photography* forum, discussing *photography* so pointing out that you have enough money to buy equipment has nothing to do with what I previously mentioned. Like someone else pointed out in this thread, you just sound like you're using the fact that you have all those shinies to make up for something else . . . . >.>

You're also contradicting yourself. Putting down someone for talking about a DYI diffuser and saying how it would be unprofessional blah blah blah in one post and in the other showing a "customized" lens hood that looks like it was painted by a middle schooler and saying that it's ok because you bring in money from it? . . . right . . .

Pro gear =/= pro.


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## AliasPros (Feb 4, 2010)

Felix0890 said:


> AliasPros said:
> 
> 
> > I think outside the box, I may be a little loud but bottom line is I am making enough money, to keep buying sick equipment left and right, isn't this the point???
> ...



I am a wedding videographer first before a designer, and I have made lots of money off of my XTI and kit lenses, I am new to being a profession photog and I am humble and say I lack professional experience, My design job goes to mortgage and car/motorcycle paments... Wedding and racing DVDs are my play money and now my photography, my goal is for my ventures to support them selves financially so I don't have to come out of pocket, and they do so far... I have been shooting non stop with my 1d 5d and making good money, no big shoots to note but even shooting girls to upgrade their myspace and facebook photos, Craig's listed that one for $60 a pop and made over $1,200 in 2 weekends so I am shopping for another lens. If I get paid per shutter click even if it's just a nominal amount for now I'm doing good in my opinion! When my camera is sitting not being used its losing me money. Some day I will get to your level and price range FELIX.


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## Felix0890 (Feb 4, 2010)

My level and price range? I'm a marketing major. Photography is my hobby. >.> Do not, in any way, think that I'm a pro or am claimin to be one. It's just that contradicting yourself by saying you'd never be caught with ChasK's diffuser alternative at a wedding and then popping up with the lens hood pics . . .

Anyway I'm late for class. I'll have to catch up on this lovely conversation another time.


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## AliasPros (Feb 4, 2010)

Felix0890 said:


> My level and price range?  I'm a marketing major.  Photography is my hobby. >.>  Do not, in any way, think that I'm a pro or am claimin to be one.



Oh that's cool well I'm just here trying to get along and get my hustle on anyway I can and I will...

Good stuff bro...:hugs:


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## icassell (Feb 4, 2010)

If you don't already have it, you can learn a lot from this book:

Amazon.com: Light: Science and Magic: An Introduction to Photographic Lighting (9780240808192): Fil Hunter, Steven Biver, Paul Fuqua: Books


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## inTempus (Feb 4, 2010)

Here's a more recent set of tests, this time I've included a Lumiquest Softbox III in my testing.

Camera setup:
1D Mark IV
580EXII Flash
85L lens
f/4
1/125 
Manual Mode
AWB

Subject 2ft from wall
Camera 8ft from subject


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## AliasPros (Feb 4, 2010)

icassell said:


> If you don't already have it, you can learn a lot from this book:
> 
> Amazon.com: Light: Science and Magic: An Introduction to Photographic Lighting (9780240808192): Fil Hunter, Steven Biver, Paul Fuqua: Books




book is ordered! Thank YOU!


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## Big (Feb 4, 2010)

Wow the lumiquest sucks... Might as well shoot the flash straight on.


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## AliasPros (Feb 4, 2010)

Big said:


> Wow the lumiquest sucks... Might as well shoot the flash straight on.




I will show some events I shot with Fong and With out, let me dig them up, love using them for receptions...


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## Felix0890 (Feb 4, 2010)

I got home and the Gary Fong Lightsphere that I had ordered was waiting for me.  I did various tests with it, including people, my cat, and random objects.  I concluded that the piece of plastic that cost me $50 did not help enough to cover it's ridiculous price.  

Actually, I prefer the look of the photos that my 430exII produced while bounced without the diffuser.  I returned the GF diffuser to Amazon and bought an umbrella kit.  Sure it cost a bit more than the GF but it'll give me the results I want.  Not really into diffusers anyway.

What really pisses me off is how Gary compares the GF diffuser's shots with ones that are taken with the flash pointing at the person.  It's like comparing apples and oranges.  Why doesn't he compare a shot of his diffuser with one of a shot with a bare bounced flash?  Because he won't have an excuse to keep a $50 tag on that piece of plastic.


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## inTempus (Feb 4, 2010)

Felix0890 said:


> I got home and the Gary Fong Lightsphere that I had ordered was waiting for me.  I did various tests with it, including people, my cat, and random objects.  I concluded that the piece of plastic that cost me $50 did not help enough to cover it's ridiculous price.
> 
> Actually, I prefer the look of the photos that my 430exII produced while bounced without the diffuser.  I returned the GF diffuser to Amazon and bought an umbrella kit.  Sure it cost a bit more than the GF but it'll give me the results I want.  Not really into diffusers anyway.


Yup.  At least you tested it.  Many people buy them and never test them, they just assume they're working miracles because they have light.  But if you actually take the time to compare it to a bare bounced flash you realize "WTF did I just pay $50 for?"

I chalked the purchase of mine up to a learning experience.


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## inTempus (Feb 4, 2010)

Big said:


> Wow the lumiquest sucks... Might as well shoot the flash straight on.


Most of these trinkets do suck... they really don't do much of anything for you and they certainly don't warrant the prices they command.  But people keep buying them.  I am buying them as I see them on sale just to do tests with.  The more of them I collect the more I realize how the vast majority of them are utterly worthless.


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## Felix0890 (Feb 4, 2010)

I'll admit that it does help.  I tested it on my mom and the bare bounce flash gave her "raccoon eyes" while the diffuser filled in those areas with flash as well as giving her nice catchlights.   However, I can remove raccoon eyes with the dodge tool in photoshop in a matter of 5 seconds and adding catchlights is even easier.   It's the price I can't justify.  If the diffuser cost less, I could justify keeping it.  $50 for something that probably cost pennies to make . . . really?

This just proves how anyone will buy anything if fed enough crap.


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## inTempus (Feb 4, 2010)

Felix0890 said:


> I'll admit that it does help.  I tested it on my mom and the bare bounce flash gave her "raccoon eyes" while the diffuser filled in those areas with flash as well as giving her nice catchlights.   However, I can remove raccoon eyes with the dodge tool in photoshop in a matter of 5 seconds and adding catchlights is even easier.   It's the price I can't justify.  If the diffuser cost less, I could justify keeping it.  $50 for something that probably cost pennies to make . . . really?
> 
> This just proves how anyone will buy anything if fed enough crap.


If you're getting raccoon eyes from a bounced flash you need to reposition your flash head.  Bounce the light off more walls, even walls beside you or behind you.  If you're at a 45 degree angle with the head, point it straight up.  Also, try using a bounce card as this throws light forward.  I don't have a problem with raccoon eyes.    There's more to using a bounce flash than just firing it.  You need to learn how to work with it and make adjustments to get the desired result.


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## inTempus (Feb 4, 2010)

I took this pic of my son at his first birthday party last year.  This is a bounced flash shot and I was standing pretty much on top of him as there were people all around.







Notice there aren't any raccoon eyes going on and the light wraps nice and evenly around him.


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## Felix0890 (Feb 4, 2010)

Was the above taken with a bounce card? 

I'll admit that I just noticed I was shooting at a slight angle (75).  Whenever I point the flash up without looking at it, I forget to give it that last nudge to make it point all the way up.

I would have bounced off a wall (I prefer side lighting) but there were no walls nearby since we were on the deck outside.  That's actually why I bought the GF diffuser.  For family events where we're out in the backyard where I only have the patio ceiling to bounce off of.  The family will just have to deal with an umbrella outside during said events. 

BTW, a bounce card could be just a white piece of cardboard placed behind the flash right?


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## inTempus (Feb 5, 2010)

Felix0890 said:


> Was the above taken with a bounce card?
> 
> I'll admit that I just noticed I was shooting at a slight angle (75).  Whenever I point the flash up without looking at it, I forget to give it that last nudge to make it point all the way up.
> 
> ...


I used the bounce card that's built into the 580EXII.  You can buy or make a larger bounce card and get even more light thrown forward.

The Fong isn't helping you outside anymore than a standard flash is with a bounce card.  Actually, it's probably wasting more light.  I would use a bounce card outside to throw more light foward.  The Fong is throwing light everywhere and only a fraction of it goes towards the subject.  

Take a look at this:  Peter Greggs ABBC ABetterBounceCard for Canon Flash Nikon Flash and Digital Cameras | abbc is abetterbouncecard for canon flash nikon flash and better flash photography


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## ChasK (Feb 5, 2010)

I used to always use an index card and rubber band, or bounce off wall, ceiling.  I kept a stash of rubber bands and index card in my camera case.  I bought a Demb just because it looks better than a rubber band an index card.


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## inTempus (Feb 5, 2010)

Felix0890 said:


> I'll admit that I just noticed I was shooting at a slight angle (75).  Whenever I point the flash up without looking at it, I forget to give it that last nudge to make it point all the way up.


That's just it, sometimes you will want the light at a slight angle and not straight up.  You need to look at your subject, look at the room, decide what lighting you want and adjust the flash head accordingly.

Think of it this way, if you were going to bounce a rubber ball off the ceiling and hit your subject in the face with it, you would have to calculate the angle in which you toss the ball to direct it to the target after bouncing it off the wall, right?  Light is no different.  You need to look around and figure out how you want the light to hit the subject then adjust your flash head to bounce it to the target to give you the effect you want.

I point my flash head straight up, at a slight angle forward, to the side and up, to the back, etc.  I can and do point it all over the place to get the lighting I want.


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## Felix0890 (Feb 5, 2010)

I think I'll use the index card and rubber band trick for when I can't take my umbrella with me.   I'll buy the black rubber bands so it doesn't look as bad .   I'd buy that big one you linked inTempus but the GF has completely turned me off from giving people unjustifiable amounts of money for something I can simply make myself.  Thanks for the tips.


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## Sachphotography (Feb 7, 2010)

AliasPros said:


> That's why I have more then one, I shoot a lot of rapper's album covers and car shows and a lot of live hip hop events



Explains a lot of things.



AliasPros said:


> and I have made lots of money off of my XTI and kit lenses, .



LOL I fired my wedding photographer for showing up to my engagement pictures session with an XTI. 



AliasPros said:


> and get my hustle on anyway I can and I will...




HUSTLE!!! HUSTLE!!! Seriously!!! AGAIN!!! Your an idiot. If think the the word Hustle belong in any business place you are sadly mistaken. If I ever heard the word Hustle from one of my employees referring  to anything in my business they would be fired immediately. You may have fancy equipment and "SICK" lenses. But you are far from Professional and I laugh at the very thought of you ever being professional.

Why are you lenses sick... Are they having an issue with Front Focus?


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## PhotoXopher (Feb 7, 2010)

Seriously?

Wow.

So apparently you didn't look at his portfolio? Otherwise if you did, obviously you liked his work or you wouldn't have given him the job - bad on you for firing him because his equipment didn't meet your standards, even though his work did.


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## gsgary (Feb 7, 2010)

I have just given the milk bottle diffuser  (2 pint model fits ex580 a treat) a try and was amazed how well it worked


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## AliasPros (Feb 7, 2010)

Sachphotography said:


> AliasPros said:
> 
> 
> > That's why I have more then one, I shoot a lot of rapper's album covers and car shows and a lot of live hip hop events
> ...



OK so I talk with slang and worked my way up with an XTI shooting live concerts, I never said I was at a professional level but to say I can never achieve it? what the hell is this forum for??? I am lucky I have what I have and  earned every penny of it working hard (Hustling etc.) I thought being here was to learn how to be professional that's why I am a supporting member, because I come from humble beginnings and talk with slang I am not going to be professional damn dude??? OK you win...


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## MarieHalle (Feb 7, 2010)

I'd recommend the Gary Fong Lightspere Universal Cloud  Very portable. There is also a collapsible model if you camera bag space is limited.


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## ChasK (Feb 7, 2010)

ChasK said:


> I used to always use an index card and rubber band, or bounce off wall, ceiling.  I kept a stash of rubber bands and index card in my camera case.  I bought a Demb just because it looks better than a rubber band an index card.



I think I need to add that the Demb works,  it's not perfect but it works quite well.   

I went to a David Ziser seminar a few months back and he's shooting a slave through an umbrella held by an assistant.  The results he showed look impressive.  He had a radio trigger on a Quantum Flash mounted on a monopod.  This he had an assistant hold.  Looks like an interesting idea.

But back to Fong bashing, if his wedding business was so profitable and successful, why did he quit?


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## Sachphotography (Feb 7, 2010)

PhotoXopher said:


> Seriously?
> 
> Wow.
> 
> So apparently you didn't look at his portfolio? Otherwise if you did, obviously you liked his work or you wouldn't have given him the job - bad on you for firing him because his equipment didn't meet your standards, even though his work did.



His work was fine. His equipment did not have the ability to shoot where we were.
The XTI low light performance was not good enough to look good. And yes at face value it sounds bad. But life goes on. The next Guy had a 1d-MIII (I think thats right)



ChasK said:


> But back to Fong bashing, if his wedding business was so profitable and successful, why did he quit?


Because selling White plastic cups is much more profitable. I can imagine the markup on those things. 
I would assume over all it cost him maybe $2-$3 to make the standard diffuser.


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## Felix0890 (Feb 7, 2010)

AliasPros said:


> OK so I talk with slang and worked my way up with an XTI shooting live concerts,



I thought it was weddings?  One post you say you're a wedding videographer for the most part, then you say you mainly shoot rappers, then you say you shoot cars most of the time . . . get your story straight.

I'm sorry but I'm getting the feeling that your daddy or mommy is rich and bought you all those shiny things so you could post them in a signature and brag in every one of your posts.  Your posts more often than not include a statement about one of your pretty lenses or your shiny 1D and 5D.  You never post any of your work up and you yourself stated that you're working with a girl that knows how to use the camera.   My conclusion: you're trying to pose as a photographer just because you have professional gear and are paying a professional to shoot for you.

Start posting your work and chill down on the bragging of getting that new shiny lens and you'll start getting more respect around here.  Nobody likes a bragging brat.


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## Sachphotography (Feb 7, 2010)

Felix0890 said:


> AliasPros said:
> 
> 
> > OK so I talk with slang and worked my way up with an XTI shooting live concerts,
> ...



THANK YOU.....

 And for the above ill-informed individual The dcitionary has the following to say

Hustle

1.	to proceed or work rapidly or energetically: to hustle about putting a house in order.
2.	to push or force one's way; jostle or shove.
3.	to be aggressive, esp. in business or other financial dealings.
4.	Slang. to earn one's living by illicit or unethical means.
5.	Slang. (of a prostitute) to solicit clients.




So your a prostitute? You work Fast? You work Illegally? Your very Push and Rude?

So which is it? 

None sounds anything like what someone wants in a Pro Photog!


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## Felix0890 (Feb 7, 2010)

What he meant by hustle was that he's quick to hand out business cards at an event even if it's taking business from the currently booked photographer.

Sure it's mean and douchy, but I have to admit that in this economy, anyone would be a fool to just pass on customers to someone else.  You could be steady at the moment, but the next day you could be broke.


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## Sachphotography (Feb 7, 2010)

Felix0890 said:


> What he meant by hustle was that he's quick to hand out business cards at an event even if it's taking business from the currently booked photographer.
> 
> Sure it's mean and douchy, but I have to admit that in this economy, anyone would be a fool to just pass on customers to someone else.  You could be steady at the moment, but the next day you could be broke.



I know what he meant. I'm just pointing out that it is a term that is used by very...well..um.... Immature People. I think that describes it best.


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## gsgary (Feb 7, 2010)

AliasPros said:


> ChasK said:
> 
> 
> > I wouldn't recommend taking the homemade stuff to a paid gig, could you imagine the look on the Bride's face.  Now there's a Kodak moment.  The homemade stuff is good to play and learn from without the investment.  But taking a bag full of home made junk to a paid event would be about as classy as trying upstage the paid photographer and passing out business cards at an event or wedding.
> ...



Garbage:thumbdown:


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## Felix0890 (Feb 7, 2010)

Yep, I agree with that.  I think it's ok to do it but to be saying that you hustle clients is just wrong for someone who is ->*trying*<- to be a professional.  I mean, it's ok if you're shooting those imaginary rappers but for shooting those imaginary weddings, it's not.   :lmao:


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## Sachphotography (Feb 7, 2010)

Felix0890 said:


> Yep, I agree with that.  I think it's ok to do it but to be saying that you hustle clients is just wrong for someone who is ->*trying*<- to be a professional.  I mean, it's ok if you're shooting those imaginary rappers but for shooting those imaginary weddings, it's not.   :lmao:



THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU. That is to funny.
HAHAHA!!!!!! :lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:

AND JUST FYI TO ALL WHO SHOOT WITH AN XTI OR SIMILAR. I AM NOT SAYING YOU CAN SHOOT PAID GIGS. I FIRED MY GUY BECAUSE THE CAMERA HE HAD WAS NOT CAPABLE OF SHOOTING WHERE WE WERE. HE TOLD ME HE WAS A PRO AND I ASSUMED HE HAD PRO GEAR. HE DIDNT SO HE WAS GONE..


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## AliasPros (Feb 7, 2010)

For all of those Questioning my Professionalism... 

I am a successfull and professional commercial Graphic Designer at www.signsofsuccess.net and engage clients on a daily basis where being well spoken is needed. I am a good salesman and I have never sat on my ass, always working more then one job so to me that is my definition of "hustling." I am also a professional wedding videography and have filmed, edited and produced numorouse weddings, all with more then happy customers who refered me highly by word of mouth. I know how to be professional when I need to be especialy in my transition into photography as a rookie. I let my guard down and just felt that this was a low key, lounge type place where we could be ourselves and maybe let loose a little, but I see I have been checked on that... I can also see that I am not liked here, so be it...


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## Sachphotography (Feb 7, 2010)

AliasPros said:


> For all of those Questioning my Professionalism...
> 
> I am a successfull and professional commercial Graphic Designer at www.signsofsuccess.net and engage clients on a daily basis where being well spoken is needed. I am a good salesman and I have never sat on my ass, always working more then one job so to me that is my definition of "hustling." I am also a professional wedding videography and have filmed, edited and produced numorouse weddings, all with more then happy customers who refered me highly by word of mouth. I know how to be professional when I need to be especialy in my transition into photography as a rookie. I let my guard down and just felt that this was a low key, lounge type place where we could be ourselves and maybe let loose a little, but I see I have been checked on that... I can also see that I am not liked here, so be it...



I don't "not' like you. I don't like your attitude about things. You do your thing and HUSTLE all those people. I'm sure there are plenty of wanna be rapper that need your help for their myspace pages. Your attitude came out as though your a kid whose parents gave him to much money. You claim you hustled your way to what you have and that the stuff you had made you a stud who could act like a spoiled child.The way you come off is not very pleasant or "Professional"  Painting your lens caps; while unique, is not very professional. Claiming that you hustle your clients is very far from professional. Your closer to getting a lawsuit from your photography than you are becoming a pro. My advice is simply this. GROW UP AND STOP USING SLANG THAT MAKES YOU LOOK LIKE A PUNK KID. 
.


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## Felix0890 (Feb 7, 2010)

I agree with the above statement.  It's not that you're not liked. It's that your attitude is annoying.  I went from being jealous of your equipment to being totally annoyed every time I stumbled onto one of your "look at my new ___________" threads/posts. You have shinies, we get it.   

This place is a very relaxed environment, however, it is filled with professionals as well.  A young rookie coming along and using slang that says that you're basically stealing others' customers is bound to piss them off.  Like I said above, you gotta do what you gotta do to survive even if it means doing what you did.  However, I'm not a pro and have never experienced someone stealing my clients at a paid event and I can imagine that this would eventually rub me the wrong way if I were to shoot a paid gig.  

It's ok to use slang if your customers are into that.  But if you're in a professional environment with others who aren't, then like the above poster said, grow up and speak proper english.

What pissed me off really (aside from the bragging of gear every 5 minutes), was that you were put off by the thought of not looking professional, yet you follow that up with a painted lens hood and saying that you "hustle" your clients.  Hypocritical much?


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## AliasPros (Feb 7, 2010)

I will take all of your advice, I because that's what I am here for, and my point for the gary fong was not to "Steal" customers but that people will in fact ask you about what it does because it's so bright and big etc... I think it could be used as an ice breaker in order to hand out your business cards instead of pushing them onto people. It's definately payed it's self on just from getting gigs from it. But, that is besides the point. I am who I am and sorry for the SLANG geez, point taken... I don't have parents that give me money my dad is 100% disabled and my mom is 67 and beginning to need care, all of my finances for the purchases I have been making are from simple XTI shoot, graphic layouts or wedding videos. All my money has been meticulously saved up and I am finally about to enjoy myself and brake out into photography the way I have been wanting to, I don't mean to come off as flaunting shinnies. *Felix* and *Sach*, I have taken your words to heart thanks for your advice... Thanks for everyone here that has not judged but actually helped me with my purchases as to not spend my hard earned money in the wrong places. I hope that I will be openly accept here occasion slang at all so that I can continue being a supporting member here...


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