# Help with Daughter's D40



## Fleetwood271 (Oct 17, 2010)

I have a D90, but I bought my daughter a D40 and gave it to her yesterday.  I gave her a 30 minute overview of most of the modes, settings, controls, etc.  Last night after she played with it for awhile, she asked me a question that I couldn't answer.  

She noticed that in A and S modes, when she rotated the rear dial, she could see the aperture and shutter speeds change.  But when she put it in P Mode, and rotated the dial, they do not change.  

On the screen, there is a "P" to show the current mode.  And if you rotate the dial, an asterisk appears beside the "P" to show that you've changed the settings.  And if you take a picture and review the data, you can see the difference, and that they changed.  But before you take the picture, if you rotate the dial, since the numbers do not change, you have no way of knowing what aperture or shutter speed you have changed to.  

What am I missing here?  If she wants to shoot in P Mode, how can she know the aperture and shutter speed before taking the pic?

Thanks!


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## Moe (Oct 17, 2010)

I had to dig out the ole D40. I never used P mode, so I'm not that familiar with it. I'm not sure if I understand what you're asking, but when I rotate the dial, I get the *P, but it also shows the changed aperture and shutter speed. The only thing I can think it might be is you've reached your minimum aperture and it won't go any larger. For example, if it has chosen the aperture at 2.8, I can make the aperture smaller (bigger numbers) and it changes the shutter speed accordingly. However, if I try to turn it the other way, it does nothing, but the *P is still there.

Here's KR's guide to the D40:

Nikon D40 Controls


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## cnutco (Oct 17, 2010)

I believe that when you chose to shoot in P mode, then you are giving the camera full control. Automatic if you will. 

Good luck.


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## ann (Oct 17, 2010)

P mode is a step up from auto.  You can change the white balance and ISO, but that is about all that is different than auto.  I would encourage her to learn how to use aperture and shutter priorty .


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## Flash Harry (Oct 17, 2010)

"P" is program mode as far as I'm aware and anything you change in that mode doesn't work, you set this mode and the camera picks whichever settings it needs to get a correct exposure, its auto, beginner mode if you like, just like a P&S camera, not very creative but should give a decent exposure every time. H


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## Josh66 (Oct 17, 2010)

ann said:


> P mode is a step up from auto.  You can change the white balance and ISO, but that is about all that is different than auto.  I would encourage her to learn how to use aperture and shutter priorty .





Flash Harry said:


> "P" is program mode as far as I'm aware and anything you change in that mode doesn't work, you set this mode and the camera picks whichever settings it needs to get a correct exposure, its auto, beginner mode if you like, just like a P&S camera, not very creative but should give a decent exposure every time. H


There has to be more to it than that...

Even my film cameras have P mode, and you can't change the WB (without filters) on those...

I've never been able to figure out what the difference was between P and Auto, but there has to be *something*...  Or, why have them both...?

Granted, I never really looked into it much, as I don't use it - but it has to do 'something' that Auto doesn't do...


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## ann (Oct 17, 2010)

film cameras don't have built in white balance functions.

a d40 is a digital camera.

there are times when one wants to be in control of wb /iso. Auto will not allow one to change anything!


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## Josh66 (Oct 17, 2010)

ann said:


> film cameras don't have built in white balance functions.
> 
> a d40 is a digital camera.
> 
> there are times when one wants to be in control of wb /iso. Auto will not allow one to change anything!


Yeah, I know - that was my point.  Everything I've heard about P mode mostly only applies to digital cameras...  Even film cameras have it, so there has to be something else that it does other than let you change the WB and ISO...


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## Destin (Oct 17, 2010)

I have a d40. 

The difference between P mode and auto mode are:

In auto mode the camera selects focus mode, focus point, metering mode, white balance, iso, EVERYTHING. All you do in auto is point, zoom, and shoot. 

In P mode the camera controls aperature and shutter speed, leaving you to control focus point, focus mode, metering mode, etc....


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## Josh66 (Oct 17, 2010)

Destin said:


> I have a d40.
> 
> The difference between P mode and auto mode are:
> 
> ...


Now, that makes sense.  If only for the option to spot meter as opposed to Auto mode's evaluative/matrix - it would be a nice improvement.

Being able to select focus points/modes is a nice plus too.


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## Moe (Oct 17, 2010)

In P mode you *can* change the aperture/shutter speed, it just gives you a base from which to work.


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## Fleetwood271 (Oct 17, 2010)

I appreciate everyone's reply, but no one has answered the question.  I already understood what P Mode does.  The question is why do the aperture and shutter speed not change on the info screen when the dial is rotated in P mode?  When in S or A Mode, they change when the dial is turned.  In P, they do not.  

For those of you who own a D40, do the numbers change on the info screen when you turn the dial, while in P Mode?  Or does an asterisk simply appear beisde the P, letting you know that you have changed from what the camera recommended?  

If you are in P Mode and you turn the dial and the asterisk appears beside the P, how do you know what shutter speed and/or aperture you are shooting?


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## Fleetwood271 (Oct 17, 2010)

Moe said:


> I had to dig out the ole D40. I never used P mode, so I'm not that familiar with it. I'm not sure if I understand what you're asking, but when I rotate the dial, I get the *P, but it also shows the changed aperture and shutter speed. The only thing I can think it might be is you've reached your minimum aperture and it won't go any larger. For example, if it has chosen the aperture at 2.8, I can make the aperture smaller (bigger numbers) and it changes the shutter speed accordingly. However, if I try to turn it the other way, it does nothing, but the *P is still there.
> 
> Here's KR's guide to the D40:
> 
> Nikon D40 Controls



Thanks.  I have already downloaded Ken's D40 guide and read the entire thing.  It tells what the P Mode does.  But it doesn't answer my question.


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## Fleetwood271 (Oct 17, 2010)

Moe said:


> In P mode you *can* change the aperture/shutter speed, it just gives you a base from which to work.



I agree - You can change aperture and shutter.  The camera just gets to control the combination.  In A, you pick the aperture and the camera picks the shutter.  In S, you pick the shutter and the camera picks the aperture.  But in P, everything I have read says the camera picks both.  And if you don't like what it picks, you can turn the dial and it will pick another combination of the two for you.  It will always pick two that will work together to get you the best possible exposure.  

However, my question is why can you not see what the aperture and shutter speed change to, when the dial is turned?  All I get is the asterisk showing that they changed.  I have no way of knowing what they changed to.


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## Josh66 (Oct 17, 2010)

It's possible that you have to hold down another button while you turn the dial in P mode.  I don't shoot Nikon, but I would try that.  Not sure what the button would be though...  On a Canon camera, I would think it would be the * button...


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## Fleetwood271 (Oct 17, 2010)

O|||||||O said:


> It's possible that you have to hold down another button while you turn the dial in P mode.  I don't shoot Nikon, but I would try that.  Not sure what the button would be though...  On a Canon camera, I would think it would be the * button...



While in M Mode, you turn the dial to select shutter speed, and to set aperture you hold down the +/- button while turning the dial.  

According to everything I have read, which includes the D40 Manual that came with the camera, the D40 Digital Field Guide by David D. Busch, the D40 For Dummies, and Ken Rockwell's D40 Users Guide and D40 Controls, when the dial is turned in P Mode, both the shutter and aperture change.  In fact Rockwell says, "just flick the rear dial until you get the combination you prefer." 

The problem is that when the dial is turned, none of the numbers that change appear on the screen.  So how would anyone know what settings they have chosen prior to taking the picture?


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## ann (Oct 17, 2010)

call nikon and ask their technical support


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## Moe (Oct 17, 2010)

As I said earlier, the only thing I can think is that the scene in which you are using the camera in P mode is dark, so it has the lens at the largest aperture, but it won't change from that. Have you tried it outside (during the day)? My D40 shows the aperture and shutter speed that it has chosen, then I can turn the dial one way or the other and it shows the *P (which lets you know you have deviated from its suggestion) *and* the new aperture/shutter speed combo.

If your daughter understands the camera a bit, she should be fine in aperture priority.


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## Fleetwood271 (Oct 17, 2010)

Moe said:


> As I said earlier, the only thing I can think is that the scene in which you are using the camera in P mode is dark, so it has the lens at the largest aperture, but it won't change from that. Have you tried it outside (during the day)? My D40 shows the aperture and shutter speed that it has chosen, then I can turn the dial one way or the other and it shows the *P (which lets you know you have deviated from its suggestion) *and* the new aperture/shutter speed combo.
> 
> If your daughter understands the camera a bit, she should be fine in aperture priority.



Yeah, I doubt that she will ever use P Mode much anyway.  I always use A, S, or M on my D90.  I am just trying to get to the bottom of her question as to why the numbers don't change in P.  

No, actually I have not had a chance to go outside in the daylight and try it.  I gave it to her late yesterday, and she asked me the question after dark.  She got up early this morning to go back to her home in VA.  I'll call her after work tomorrow and have her try it outside.  

Thanks for your advice.  I appreciate your help.


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## Destin (Oct 17, 2010)

Fleetwood271 said:


> Moe said:
> 
> 
> > In P mode you *can* change the aperture/shutter speed, it just gives you a base from which to work.
> ...




I just pulled out my d40 to try this and got the same result as you. 

BUT...being as familiar with the camera, and what it's responses mean, I have come to a conclusion. When in P mode, you cannot change the aperature/shutter speed combination, the camera selects it for you and gives you no control over it. Basically when you rotate the dial, and the camera gives you the "P*" symbol (both on the screen and in the viewfinder) it is simply telling you that it is in P mode, and therefore you cannot change it. 

When you are turning the dial, nothing is actually changing. 

Regardless of what the books say, this is what both of our cameras are doing, and therefore what the books must be wrong.

Try it on your D90...what does it do?

the only control the d40 gives you over exposure in P mode is iso, and exposure compensation


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## Fleetwood271 (Oct 17, 2010)

Destin said:


> I just pulled out my d40 to try this and got the same result as you.
> 
> BUT...being as familiar with the camera, and what it's responses mean, I have come to a conclusion. When in P mode, you cannot change the aperature/shutter speed combination, the camera selects it for you and gives you no control over it. Basically when you rotate the dial, and the camera gives you the "P*" symbol (both on the screen and in the viewfinder) it is simply telling you that it is in P mode, and therefore you cannot change it.
> 
> ...



OK - I just got out my D90 and tried it in P Mode.  Guess what?  Same thing.  So at least I know that my daughter's camera is working properly, even if I don't quite understand it at this point.  
On the D90 in S Mode, the rear dial changes shutter speed. In A Mode, front dial changes aperture.  In M Mode, same.  But in P Mode, it's just as the D40 - An asterisk appears beside the P to show that the original has been changed, but the is no indication either on the screen or in the viewfinder of what the new settings are, if in fact there are new settings.  

I'll try my D90 outside tomorrow and see if anything is different.

Thanks!


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## Fleetwood271 (Oct 18, 2010)

Moe said:


> As I said earlier, the only thing I can think is that the scene in which you are using the camera in P mode is dark, so it has the lens at the largest aperture, but it won't change from that. Have you tried it outside (during the day)? My D40 shows the aperture and shutter speed that it has chosen, then I can turn the dial one way or the other and it shows the *P (which lets you know you have deviated from its suggestion) *and* the new aperture/shutter speed combo.
> 
> If your daughter understands the camera a bit, she should be fine in aperture priority.



You were exactly right!  I tried the P Mode outside today and it worked like described in all the books.  When you turn the dial, both the shutter speed and the aperture change.  They always change as a pair, so that you would never end up with a combination that would give you a bad exposure.  
Ken Rockwell really seems to like this mode. 
Personally, I'll stick with A, S, and M.

I was just trying to answer the question my daughter asked me.  

Thanks for everyone's input.


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## Moe (Oct 18, 2010)

Glad you got it solved.


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