# what is everyone using for studio lighting?



## crackhouserooster (Jan 8, 2020)

I am a 25+ year commercial studio photographer. Most of my lighting gear is 3kws and 2.4kws Elinchrom packs and heads. Some of them are quite old and getting costly to repair. What are the alternatives for replacement? Elinchrom appears to only make small monolights and some battery-powered packs that top out at 1kws. The Profoto 2.4kws packs are $15k and not really an option. thoughts? Thanks in advance. Craig


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## zombiesniper (Jan 8, 2020)

Do you only work in studio or do you need these to be used on location? Price point varies wildly based just on this requirement alone.
Also look into Godox/Flashpoint or other lower price bracket gear. The quality has come up quite a bit in recent years. Not Eli quality but also not Eli prices either.


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## crackhouserooster (Jan 8, 2020)

zombiesniper said:


> Do you only work in studio or do you need these to be used on location? Price point varies wildly based just on this requirement alone.
> Also look into Godox/Flashpoint or other lower price bracket gear. The quality has come up quite a bit in recent years. Not Eli quality but also not Eli prices either.


Thanks for the reply. Mostly in the studio but some location work. Does Good/Flashpoint make 24oo ws gear?


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## smoke665 (Jan 8, 2020)

Are you looking to replace with another pack and head model, or switch monolights?


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## zombiesniper (Jan 8, 2020)

crackhouserooster said:


> Thanks for the reply. Mostly in the studio but some location work. Does Good/Flashpoint make 24oo ws gear?



2400 ws?!? Hol E crap that's butt tonne of power! You really should light your subject in the same county. lol
I don't think they go that high.


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## ronlane (Jan 8, 2020)

zombiesniper said:


> crackhouserooster said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for the reply. Mostly in the studio but some location work. Does Good/Flashpoint make 24oo ws gear?
> ...



I agree with @zombiesniper, the AD400 Pro is a great quality and would be very suitable for most studio work. (Well having 2-3 of them anyway) If that isn't enough, they have a an AD600 and I just saw a posting where there is an AD1200 studio only light coming out.

2.4K seems like WAY too much light. What power and camera settings would you use with that in studio?


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## smoke665 (Jan 8, 2020)

@ronlane & @zombiesniper  I may be wrong put I think he's referring to the power pack, which feeds multiple heads.


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## tirediron (Jan 8, 2020)

Speedotron, mostly Brownline.  It's cheap like borscht on the used market, and lasts forever.  Brownline tops out at 1600w/s per pack, but you can get a pack and M11 head for $250 - 300 off of fleabay, so if you need 3-4Kws, you're only looking at around $1K.  Blackline packs go up to 2400w/s, and are probably 1.5 - 2x the price.


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## JBPhotog (Jan 8, 2020)

Pack and head systems typically have more watt/seconds because of the multiple head outlets available. FWIW, I have shot many iterations of multiple 2400 w/s pops from my Speedotron Black line packs just to build up to one exposure, a very common practise with LF cameras and slow film, it's kind of fun sitting in the dark smelling the ozone.

However, many people have transitioned over to mono lights powered by batteries with optional AC configuration now that remote triggers can control the output of each head channel. When mono lights needed to be manually adjusted, they were a pain especially in boomed situations. Anyone starting over or looking to replace old gear would be advised to look at this seriously as it travels well and is perfectly functional in the studio. I have added Godox to my current lighting gear, so far they are functioning well and would continue to support the brand. BTW, they just announced a 1200 w/s pack and single head system for those who do need extra power.


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## crackhouserooster (Jan 8, 2020)

this is an example of what i shoot in the studio. 400ws aren't going to cut it.







i have no problem with going to monolights but they seem to max out at 1kws. i have looked at the speedotron backline and they are a viable option.


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## Derrel (Jan 8, 2020)

I have a lot of Speedotron, both Black
Line and Brown Line. I have 2 x2400, 1×800, 1 ×400 in Black. And 1 ×1600, 1x 600, 2x400 and 1x200 in Brown. The  1602 I bought new in 1986 and the 405B I bought new in 2007. I have a lot of heads, most all bought used in the 2001-2008 era. Reliable and rugged, but old technology, not that fast on flash duration, but reasonable head weights.

Following the basic collapse of the commercial print catalog industry the market was basically flooded with used Speedo gear, and even to this day there is quite a lot of it available on eBay. If you are coming from Elinchrom, Speedotron might be an okay alternative. If you need a lot of flash power come up black line is quite affordable for the pop you get.

The factory is still located in Chicago, and the one repair I had done was quite inexpensive for me : I bought a non-working 400 Brown Line pack off of eBay and I sent it to Chicago with a note to bring it back to working capability they put in new capacitors and charged me $75. It was $20 for shipping each way.


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## crackhouserooster (Jan 8, 2020)

Derrel said:


> I have a lot of Speedotron, both Black
> Line and Brown Line. I have 2 x2400, 1×800, 1 ×400 in Black. And 1 ×1600, 1x 600, 2x400 and 1x200 in Brown. The  1602 I bought new in 1986 and the 405B I bought new in 2007. I have a lot of heads, most all bought used in the 2001-2008 era. Reliable and rugged, but old technology, not that fast on flash duration, but reasonable head weights.
> 
> Following the basic collapse of the commercial print catalog industry the market was basically flooded with used Speedo gear, and even to this day there is quite a lot of it available on eBay. If you are coming from Elinchrom, Speedotron might be an okay alternative. If you need a lot of flash power come up black line is quite affordable for the pop you get.


great, thanks. are there speedrings and adapters available for most modifiers? i would love to be able to continue to use my elinchrom and broncolor parabolics.


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## tirediron (Jan 8, 2020)

crackhouserooster said:


> this is an example of what i shoot in the studio. 400ws aren't going to cut it.


Are you shooting at an especially low ISO, or doing something else unique?  Honestly, I feel like I could light that satisfactorily with a handful of speedlights, or at most, a few 2-3w/s lights...  Certainly wouldn't occur to me to consider 2-3Kw/s


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## JBPhotog (Jan 8, 2020)

crackhouserooster said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> > I have a lot of Speedotron, both Black
> ...



It really depends on how handy with tools you are. Speedotron speedings are available for a large number of modifiers, others that aren't can easily be adapted with a basic Speedo ring. Your Broncolor parabolic adapter looks to be able to accept a Speedo ring after 4 holes were drilled in it to screw down on the backing plate.

I have adapted Bowens mount modifiers for my Godox flashes essentially MacGivering Speedo rings to mount them, Also did the reverse with my Speedo BD so my Godox can attach to it.


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## JBPhotog (Jan 8, 2020)

tirediron said:


> crackhouserooster said:
> 
> 
> > this is an example of what i shoot in the studio. 400ws aren't going to cut it.
> ...



Shot as ISO125 so nothing too slow. However, large room sets when lit with large modifiers require lots of power, a speedlite wouldn't do it.


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## Derrel (Jan 8, 2020)

Speedo rings are available....all you need are machine screws or light-duty bolts, or pop rivets, or epoxy, or soldering skills. I think mounting/adapting kits are about $20 these days.


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## crackhouserooster (Jan 8, 2020)

JBPhotog said:


> tirediron said:
> 
> 
> > crackhouserooster said:
> ...


yes, agreed. i go from 50 -800 on a regular basis depending on what i am shooting and how it will be used. these sets cannot be lighted with a handful of speedlites, trust me. the key alone through the window is at least 3kws.


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## crackhouserooster (Jan 8, 2020)

Derrel said:


> Speedo rings are available....all you need are machine screws or light-duty bolts, or pop rivets, or epoxy, or soldering skills. I think mounting/adapting kits are about $20 these days.


great! thanks again.


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## tirediron (Jan 8, 2020)

crackhouserooster said:


> yes, agreed. i go from 50 -800 on a regular basis depending on what i am shooting and how it will be used. these sets cannot be lighted with a handful of speedlites, trust me. the key alone through the window is at least 3kws.


Okay, I get the 'sun gun' coming in the window, but even that at 3 Kw/s seems like a LOT of light.  I've illuminated an entire arena to f5.6 @ISO 640 with 3.2 Kw/s.  Not meaning to be rude, but I'm genuinely interested in your process, modifiers, etc, that you need so much light.  Could you elaborate more?


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## crackhouserooster (Jan 8, 2020)

tirediron said:


> crackhouserooster said:
> 
> 
> > yes, agreed. i go from 50 -800 on a regular basis depending on what i am shooting and how it will be used. these sets cannot be lighted with a handful of speedlites, trust me. the key alone through the window is at least 3kws.
> ...


Can you post your arena photo? I use Elinchrom Octabank  74's and Rotalux 59's for mains and fills, some beauty dishes for mains sometimes, 12'x12' bounce screens as needed. Some smaller diffused softboxes and boxlights. The goal is to mimic natural light in a studio setting. I can assure you it is quite common to use this much power in commercial studios.


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## Derrel (Jan 8, 2020)

How much money do you want to spend?


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## crackhouserooster (Jan 8, 2020)

Derrel said:


> How much money do you want to spend?


the last group of elinchroms i bought were the rx4200 digital packs. they were about $2400/each. i bought a few of the zoom heads, i think they were either 2400ws or 3000ws and, iirc, something like $1000-1200/each. i can justify prices some thing in line with that and am probably looking at 6-8 packs and 8-10 heads. thanks.


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## Derrel (Jan 8, 2020)

In 2002 I bought a pair of used 2400 Speedo black lines for $1,000. I believe they are 2403 B.... I have not used them too much in the last 10 years. They have 6 Outlets and three channels per pack, and there is a 1/3 stop dial down rheostat. I have a lot of 102 heads, and they have a couple of 202VF flash heads and I have five 103 heads which are a lot like the brown line M11, meaning they are convection cooled and use the same 150w quartz modeling lamp.

Back in the days of four by five sheet film and apertures like f / 45 the 2400 watt second pack was perfect. I like the ability to power 6 flash heads off of 1 pack, and that is something to consider. There is a 2400 pack that only has four Outlets and is popular with sports shooters.

The nice thing about Speedotron Black Line is how rugged it is, and the fact that they make flash tubes that can easily handle a 2400 Watt-second pop, and which have a really bright 250-Watt enclosed quartz modeling lamp, and if you need it you can also buy bi- tube and quad tube heads. Sometimes you just need a massive amount of flash power, and they have a head that  you can use with two or even four 2400 Watt packs.


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## tirediron (Jan 8, 2020)

crackhouserooster said:


> Can you post your arena photo? I use Elinchrom Octabank  74's and Rotalux 59's for mains and fills, some beauty dishes for mains sometimes, 12'x12' bounce screens as needed. Some smaller diffused softboxes and boxlights. The goal is to mimic natural light in a studio setting. I can assure you it is quite common to use this much power in commercial studios.


Here's the thread.


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## Derrel (Jan 8, 2020)

There is also a Black Line 4800 power pack which these days is the 4800 CX. In the past it was a B series as I recall. These have not been too popular , but they are out there, both new and used.

Considering the new prices I think I would go with used packs and used heads, and just buy extra units. For example the 202 VF variable focusing flash head with a 2400 watt second capable flash tube used to be $250 used a decade ago but last month I saw a couple on eBay for $99 which is cheaper than the flash tube itself new.

Many times you can buy a complete flash head used for less than the price of a brand new Flash tube.


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## crackhouserooster (Jan 8, 2020)

Derrel said:


> In 2002 I bought a pair of used 2400 Speedo black lines for $1,000. I believe they are 2403 B.... I have not used them too much in the last 10 years. They have 6 Outlets and three channels per pack, and there is a 1/3 stop dial down rheostat. I have a lot of 102 heads, and they have a couple of 202VF flash heads and I have five 103 heads which are a lot like the brown line M11, meaning they are convection cooled and use the same 150w quartz modeling lamp.
> 
> Back in the days of four by five sheet film and apertures like f / 45 the 2400 watt second pack was perfect. I like the ability to power 6 flash heads off of 1 pack, and that is something to consider. There is a 2400 pack that only has four Outlets and is popular with sports shooters.
> 
> The nice thing about Speedotron Black Line is how rugged it is, and the fact that they make flash tubes that can easily handle a 2400 Watt-second pop, and which have a really bright 250-Watt enclosed quartz modeling lamp, and if you need it you can also buy bi- tube and quad tube heads. Sometimes you just need a massive amount of flash power, and they have a head that  you can use with two or even four 2400 Watt packs.


when i started, we shot everything on 8x10 sinars. we used mostly 6000ws elinchroms and some MR 2k's if we were shooting tungsten. i was dragged kicking and screaming into digital in '99, lol.


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## crackhouserooster (Jan 8, 2020)

tirediron said:


> crackhouserooster said:
> 
> 
> > Can you post your arena photo? I use Elinchrom Octabank  74's and Rotalux 59's for mains and fills, some beauty dishes for mains sometimes, 12'x12' bounce screens as needed. Some smaller diffused softboxes and boxlights. The goal is to mimic natural light in a studio setting. I can assure you it is quite common to use this much power in commercial studios.
> ...


ah, the flash was just supplemental light.


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## Derrel (Jan 8, 2020)

MRs have been seen recently being used as props. LOL. Seriously though at Cobalt Studios a rental Studio here in town they have a couple that people have been using as props in fashion and glamour sets.

I do not miss film very much, but I do miss seeing those big 4 x 5 inch 'chromes on a light table. The last time I shot any 4 x 5 Chrome was probably 1993.

With the upgrade in ISO quality during the digital age, my everyday flash power requirements have dropped dramatically. Still I have found that it makes life easier when you have more flash power than needed, and you can work at half power or quarter power and have nearly-instantaneous flash recycle time when using ISO 100 or 200 or even 320.

These are blessed times we live in. No more Ektachrome 64 for decent quality and quick turnaround...


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## JBPhotog (Jan 9, 2020)

The Speedo 102 heads are rated for 3200 w/s so they easily handle 2400 w/s packs. FWIW, my packs are late 1980’s models and work just fine to this day after literally thousands of pops. The only repair was the replacement of one capacitor three years ago, they are built to handle daily abuse.

The only caveat is they are not super consistent, I’m talking tenths of a stop here, compared with the new digital packs. Broncolor is probably the best out there, has been for many years but it comes at a cost and I would likely bet Speedo Black Lines are more durable.


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## crackhouserooster (Jan 9, 2020)

JBPhotog said:


> The Speedo 102 heads are rated for 3200 w/s so they easily handle 2400 w/s packs. FWIW, my packs are late 1980’s models and work just fine to this day after literally thousands of pops. The only repair was the replacement of one capacitor three years ago, they are built to handle daily abuse.
> 
> The only caveat is they are not super consistent, I’m talking tenths of a stop here, compared with the new digital packs. Broncolor is probably the best out there, has been for many years but it comes at a cost and I would likely bet Speedo Black Lines are more durable.


thanks for the reply. the elinchroms are pretty consistent. maybe better than the speedotrons but not as consistent as the broncolors or profotos i have used on locations as rentals. broncolor was definitely an option but i can't find anything bigger than 1200ws packs.


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## crackhouserooster (Jan 9, 2020)

Derrel said:


> MRs have been seen recently being used as props. LOL. Seriously though at Cobalt Studios a rental Studio here in town they have a couple that people have been using as props in fashion and glamour sets.
> 
> I do not miss film very much, but I do miss seeing those big 4 x 5 inch 'chromes on a light table. The last time I shot any 4 x 5 Chrome was probably 1993.
> 
> ...


i don't miss waiting 40-70 mins for transparencies to make it through the kreonites. i remember Dicomed coming by the studio in '96 or so and trying to push their digital back. we had a set shot using 4x5 ektachrome 100 and compared it to what the rep could capture and there were no competition. the rep seemed a little embarrassed. from there we dabbled in d1x's for smaller format and ended up getting a few leaf 11mp backs (a mix of mamiya and sinar mounts, maybe one adapted to hasselblad too(?)) and they served us quite well for a few years. currently using a 5ds, mark iv, a couple of mark iii back up bodies and a sony a7r3. my personal system has been the  Fuji xt series. currently on the 3. check out my personal website. schneider67.com. thanks for your replies.


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## tirediron (Jan 9, 2020)

crackhouserooster said:


> ah, the flash was just supplemental light.


Fair, but almost six stops, so that's a lot of supplementing.


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## DanOstergren (Jan 9, 2020)

Derrel said:


> MRs have been seen recently being used as props. LOL. Seriously though at Cobalt Studios a rental Studio here in town they have a couple that people have been using as props in fashion and glamour sets.


I literally did this at Cobalt Studios less than two weeks ago.


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## Braineack (Jan 9, 2020)

DanOstergren said:


> I literally did this at Cobalt Studios less than two weeks ago.



and i literally thought of this thread when i just saw your posts using it!


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## JBPhotog (Jan 10, 2020)

crackhouserooster said:


> Derrel said:
> 
> 
> > I have a lot of Speedotron, both Black
> ...



One aspect you may want to consider is the efficiency of the Broncolor Para mated with Profoto heads. There is a bit of discussion about the Profoto flat front flash design(the flash tube is covered by a diffusion glass) not being all that great with Para modifiers. You may want to test these out before you make a big purchase in new flash gear.


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## crackhouserooster (Jan 10, 2020)

JBPhotog said:


> crackhouserooster said:
> 
> 
> > Derrel said:
> ...


thanks! i am pretty sure i am not going profoto. priced a bit too high for me to get more than a pack and a head.


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## dennyr (Jan 15, 2020)

I am not a photographer, this is just a hobby for me.
 My studio lighting was OLD and varied.
I bought what i guess you might call the B&H house brand.? ...... Impact.
The stuff seems to be well made, they offer a lot of different mods and lights....and they use the Bowens System. THAT was a big   reason i went with Impact.  
good luck


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