# I'd probably be hated as an 'amateur' going pro if I used a 10yr old camera



## hfocal

So I currently have Olympus E500 with 14-45mm lens . Honestly cannot afford the 'professional' DSLRs at the moment but if one really wanted to break into the industry, an equipment less than a professional grade doesn't matter ?

Please tell me yes lol

If this equipment is all you have and you think you can make decent photos, would you tell a client what you're using? And what rate would you charge ?

You can find a very few of my work here: Not The Oldest DSLR

I'm also open to suggestions to what niche I could enter , I understand photography is quite a big pool but am looking to focus my attention. I've yet to add portraits and others maybe food I don't know honestly but I like scenes or some story in an image.

Would really appreciate your suggestions. Thank you.


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## tirediron

Results are what count.  If you can deliver what people will pay for with what you have, that's all you need.  That said, there are some general "minimums" that one should have if one really wants to be a pro.  As for 'what niche', well, that's up to you.  Photography is an art, and there's no point in someone recommending you become a headshot photographer if you don't like shooting people.  You have to find what motivates you.


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## Trever1t

Equipment is less important than content but if that's the cream of your work, then you need a lot more time to develop BEFORE you even consider taking money from people.

Don't take that as a personal attack, it's just my opinion.


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## spiralout462

How much are people offering for your prints or services?  That should tell you what you need to know.

Edit:  lots of pros use equipment much older than that!  If I like someone's art, I don't give a damn what he or she uses.


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## hfocal

Thank you all, I appreciate kind the words. I think a lot of us trying to be a pro has more confidence issues than equipment issues. It's hard to tell sometimes which one kicks in lol and what to do with them when they kick in.

I'd like to hear stories of folks who use old cameras. How do you deal with timeline? Deadline? And I guess you negotiate that part with client at consultation ? Do you lower your rate because your camera isn't at the level it's 'supposed' to be to deliver the project ?


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## Overread

If you are doing business your rate is based upon:

1) The cost of doing business - you have to add up how much it will cost you to run your business day to day. All the running costs of daily work even if you have no clients. Ergo all your overheads (insurance, building, rental, etc...)

2) The cost of performing the shoot for the client - ergo how much it will cost you to make the photos for the client in real terms. 

3) Your living needs - ergo how much you need to live off to cover all your bills and basic nessessities

4) Tax 

5) Profit - because every business has to generate a level of profit. It is generally very unhealthy for a business to constantly run at only break-even. 

All the above in 1-4 gives you a basic break-even value. That's the lowest value that you can survive on (you might break it into a monthly or weekly value) and you can work out how much your time is worth per-hour from that. After that you add on profit and compare to others in the market/area you live in to see how your prices line up - if you're WAY over or way under consider revising your n umbers as there's normally a reason for it.




As for quality and product you advertise your works through a portfolio and a client hires you based off that. If your portfolio is representative of what you can produce and is what you produce in quality for the client great. Doesn't matter how good or bad you are if your in line with your portfolio then youv'e done what is required of you. 

Problems happen when you advertise using photos that are not representative of your normal quality of output or when people use fake/stolen photos to advertise. 


My impression of your photos is you might get some interested in them from an artistic angle; but you don't really advertise anything standard for what people would hire another person to produce. You might get some luck in some artistic circles; but remember lots of people will say "That's cool I'd pay for that" but if you ask them for £50 they suddenly go "Oh no wait I meant like £5" or back away entirely,


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## hfocal

Thank you for those , I had been trying to make a list , reasons for rate and to now I never know if it's fair to say any. I guess it's a matter of delivery as well. I was brought up thinking that the only way I could survive is doing 'stable' jobs, 9-5 job weekday jobs. All I wanted is be in a profession which I really like.

I will be working on building my portfolio to show what I can be hired for definitely.

About pricing with profit, what would be a comfortable range for most pros ?

Also, at the moment, I don't have a studio or a mock studio, I haven't really thought of having one. I feel like I'm the kind to be doing a lot of travelling to start earning what I'd like to earn. My hope and goal is a 6-figure per year basis (maybe in three years time) and by not having overhead it helps with the savings. Or is it the other way around ? Do clients rather know you have a studio even if the project will be done outdoors ? Let's say client found other photographers with about the same quality and style as you do, how can you up your 'cred' ?


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## Overread

You are approaching the thinking a little wrong. A studio photographer would have a studio or access to one; a wedding photographer might have no need for one; whilst one who does portraits outside wouldn't need one either. etc... You get what you need; what overheads you have depends upon what kind of photography you aim to produce.


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## hfocal

I see I see, yes I really am new to this


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## Overread

Being new to something is probably the wrong time to be thinking about turning it into a business. If you're new to photography and new to business chances are you won't get far and you will make a lot of mistakes that will probably end up costing you money. 

You should focus on learning photography first; then consider about turning it into a buiness or working for another photographer etc.. .


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## tirediron

The only sure way to make money in photography is to sell your camera!


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## hfocal

Oh I meant new to the business although a couple in my immediate family is and was an accountant. I've been doing photography as a hobby for about 10 years.  Thanks again.


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## hfocal

I have been thinking about working side by side with a pro so I do go to Craigslist, wondering if there's anywhere else to look. Craigslist can be quite .... mehh


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## KmH

I can tell you from experience that few working retail photographers will have the time, or inclination, to have you work side-by-side with them. They are just to busy and have little enough time for themselves and their families.

The vast majority of retail customers won't have any clue how old your camera is.

Something like 85% of all the photos that sell have people in them, and those photos are almost always bought by the people in the photos.
So portraits (individuals and families), events, weddings etc are the usual retail photography subjects.
Retail photography is about selling - prints, framed or mounted in other ways, and products that have had photos applied to them.
Successful retail photographers are very good at dealing with the public and project a personality that make people comfortable.

Business management that follows a well researched and written business, marketing, promotion plan and salesmanship are the primary skills needed to start a retail photography business. About 75% of a retail photographers time is needed to maintain a retail photography business. Only about 25% of a retail photographers time is spent doing photography related tasks.

Shooting food or products is commercial photography and commercial photography has a very different business model.
Commercial photography is about selling your time, your talent, and use licensing.
Many commercial buyers pay 30 to 60 days after you have done the job.


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## vintagesnaps

hfocal said:


> I'd like to hear stories of folks who use old cameras. How do you deal with timeline? Deadline? And I guess you negotiate that part with client at consultation ? Do you lower your rate because your camera isn't at the level it's 'supposed' to be to deliver the project ?



OK, this had me wondering where is the facepalm emoji? I don't think you're quite on the right track yet here, because no, you don't base pricing or make excuses to prospective clients based on what camera you use, etc. etc.

Get on American Society of Media Photographers or try PPA and look up what's involved in professional photography. They have resources on pricing, contracts, etc. etc. Your work has to be good enough to be at a competitive level with other pros in your area.

I don't know if you do some networking in your area if you'd eventually get a chance to shadow or observe other pros at work, but I think you'd have to be prepared with a darn good portfolio of professional quality work to show people. Look up websites for pros in your area; that's your eventual competition if this works into a business _*someday*_.

All I know as afar as confidence is having done sports/hockey/events is that it's not about the camera. The first time I got out on the ice to take pictures pregame I was excited and thinking I hope at least I don't fall on my butt in front of thousands of people lol - but I had no hesitation and no doubt I could do it.

I think you'd need to find what type of photography you have enough passion for and want to do enough to practice and practice and work at it til you get good enough to do competitive quality photos. That will probably help develop the self confidence you'll need.


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## dennybeall

If you want to be a pro you have to satisfy your customers, not other photographers. You have to be good enough to compete with others but not make them happy or impress them with your equipment. As far as customers are concerned you can fool them with an old camera gussied up with a strobe attached, a double battery attached and a sunshade on the lens. Add a cord or two also. You can only get away with that if you can produce photos that meet the needs of the client. Clients are frequently more critical of cost, showing up on time when they want you and your personal appearance.


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## hfocal

Hi everyone, thanks again. All your inputs noted.

I'm sure everyone here's had to answer probably the same questions or concerns, I didn't find any harm in trying for myself. All's good cause I think I got my answers =) Open for others

 About networking, that'll be a given yes - apart from being here already .


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## TamingRoman

Pretty much love EVERYTHING TiredIron is saying.  He's 100 percent right.  There is a market for everything.  If it sells, you are doing it right.  If it doesn't, you might need a tweek.


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