# The choice of camera for amateur. Need advice!



## Anton1609 (Jul 2, 2011)

Now I have a Nikon D3000. Photographing is not rare, and not often. From time to time I do a photo shoot. And I have a choice:
- To sell this and buy D5100 with lens 18-105. Body is better, another sensor, function, and maybe more.
- For the same money to buy up to Nikon D3000 lenses 50 mm f/1,8 G and fisheye Samyang 8 mm f/3.5. Photos taken with 50mm is really better)
Thank you.


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## Max713 (Jul 2, 2011)

How well do you know your D3000? Do you feel it is lacking in any particular area?

For the most part, if you don't plan to go Fx or at least not for a while, your lenses will work forever. Bodies come and go. What lenses are you shooting with at the moment, I'm assuming the 18-55? If that's all you've ever shot with, I'd recommend picking up a Nikkor 35 1.8, the 50 1.8 will not autofocus on your D3000. The 35 really is an incredible lens, it will produce images on par with a lot of Nikons pro glass, and it can be had for about $180 used, I think it would hold you over for a while, but that's just me.

If you upgrade lenses now, they will only become that much better once you upgrade your body.


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## Anton1609 (Jul 2, 2011)

Max713 said:


> How well do you know your D3000? Do you feel it is lacking in any particular area?
> 
> For the most part, if you don't plan to go Fx or at least not for a while, your lenses will work forever. Bodies come and go. What lenses are you shooting with at the moment, I'm assuming the 18-55? If that's all you've ever shot with, I'd recommend picking up a Nikkor 35 &#402;1.8, the 50 &#402;1.8 will not autofocus on your D3000. The 35 really is an incredible lens, it will produce images on par with a lot of Nikons pro glass, and it can be had for about $180 used, I think it would hold you over for a while, but that's just me.
> 
> If you upgrade lenses now, they will only become that much better once you upgrade your body.



I know my D3000 very well, but I feel it is not enough for me.
As for  me, the best choice is D5100 with 18-55 ( I think that I don't need  105m ) and 50mm/1.8G AF-S. This 50mm has autofocus, hasn't it? And D5100  is new better sensor and higher quality of image.


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## Max713 (Jul 2, 2011)

Anton1609 said:


> I know my D3000 very well, but I feel it is not enough for me.
> As for  me, the best choice is D5100 with 18-55 ( I think that I don't need  105m ) and 50mm/1.8G AF-S. This 50mm has autofocus, hasn't it? And D5100  is new better sensor and higher quality of image.


Yes, I read wrong and missed the "G" in your first post, the 50 &#402;1.8G does AF on both the D3000 and D5100.


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## Anton1609 (Jul 2, 2011)

Max713 said:


> Anton1609 said:
> 
> 
> > I know my D3000 very well, but I feel it is not enough for me.
> ...


Ok. Thanks. And one more question. What you would choose:
- Nikon D90 with 18-55 and 50mm/f1.8D
- Nikon D5100 with 18-55 and 50mm/f1.8G


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## EPPhoto (Jul 2, 2011)

Neither lol...your current camera will be just fine.  Your not going to notice some amazingly different photos by changing to a new camera.  Invest in quality glass and that's how you will take better looking photos.  Or invest in some classes to hone your skill.


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## EPPhoto (Jul 2, 2011)

And btw...the 18-55 KIT lens isn't that great of a lens and the 18-105 would get more use due to the larger zoom.


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## Anton1609 (Jul 2, 2011)

EPPhoto said:


> Neither lol...your current camera will be just fine.  Your not going to notice some amazingly different photos by changing to a new camera.  Invest in quality glass and that's how you will take better looking photos.  Or invest in some classes to hone your skill.


Many people say that body plays an important role in photos. So I think it will be good to upgrade D3000 to something better. But if I buy the same kit lens, I will get nearly the same photos, so 50mm lens is important for me. Is there really much difference between D3000 body and D5100?


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## EPPhoto (Jul 2, 2011)

You already have a 50mm focal length with your kit lens...what makes you think a 50mm f/1.8 will drastically improve your photos?


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## jdag (Jul 2, 2011)

I would look at the D3000 to D5000/D5100 to be a relatively modest upgrade.  Don't get me wrong, there are many differences, but it is sort of a 1/2 step upward.  My suspicion is that if you feel that D3000 is limiting you, you will not feel "liberated" if you upgrade to the D5000 or D5100.

A more complete step up would be to the D90 or D7000.  You gain many important features with such a move (commander mode for off-camera flash, multiple control dials, in-body focus motor, top mounted LCD, etc.)  The D90 and D7000 have bigger/heavier bodies, which may be a plus or minus for you.


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## Anton1609 (Jul 2, 2011)

EPPhoto said:


> You already have a 50mm focal length with your kit lens...what makes you think a 50mm f/1.8 will drastically improve your photos?


This lens makes awesome background blur and wide aperture for low light. Great think for photographing people. IMHO. What you recommend to me?



jdag said:


> I would look at the D3000 to D5000/D5100 to be a  relatively modest upgrade.  Don't get me wrong, there are many  differences, but it is sort of a 1/2 step upward.  My suspicion is that  if you feel that D3000 is limiting you, you will not feel "liberated" if  you upgrade to the D5000 or D5100.
> 
> A more complete step up would be to the D90 or D7000.  You gain many  important features with such a move (commander mode for off-camera  flash, multiple control dials, in-body focus motor, top mounted LCD,  etc.)  The D90 and D7000 have bigger/heavier bodies, which may be a plus  or minus for you.


I'm not going to be a pro photographer. I just want a bit better camera for better quality. So I think, I will buy D5100, if I successfullt sell my D3000. But I still in uncertainty with lens for D5100. Is it good to buy 18-55 and 50/1.8G?

Thanks everybody for advices.


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## Tomasko (Jul 2, 2011)

EPPhoto said:


> You already have a 50mm focal length with your kit lens...what makes you think a 50mm f/1.8 will drastically improve your photos?


You must be joking, right??




Anton1609 said:


> Many people say that body plays an important role in photos.


Yes, to a certain degree. However, better lens gives you bigger quality difference. Is it ALWAYS better to shoot cheap body + great lens, than to shoot expensive body + kit lens 

Either way, I believe it's a waste of money upgrading D3000 to D5100...


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## jdag (Jul 2, 2011)

Tomasko said:


> Either way, I believe it's a waste of money upgrading D3000 to D5100...



+1


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## EPPhoto (Jul 2, 2011)

The 50mm 1.8 is a great lens, and produces nice bokeh (blur) don't get me wrong.  But it I think you are expecting it to be some kind of magical lens that is going to do wonders.  The best investment a beginner can make is knowledge.  Read some popular books and watch instructional videos, basically surround yourself with photography knowledge.  THAT will make the biggest difference in the quality of your images.  

Upgrading your tools before you know how to take advantage of them is a waste of money IMHO.


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## Anton1609 (Jul 2, 2011)

Thanks. Why I want buy D5100? I want to start shoot HDR photos ( it has bracketing, D3000 - no), it has a better image quality ( not like semi-pro, but upper-beginner ). Anyway, firstly I'm gonna buy 50mm/1.8G.
EPPhoto, I don't expect wonders from 50mm, but it is good lens for shooting people.


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## PJL (Jul 2, 2011)

Anton1609 said:


> it has a better image quality ( not like semi-pro, but upper-beginner ).


What makes you say that, pray tell?

I agree that the D5100 has a few more features than the barebones D3000, but I also agree with previous posters that say it's not a true "upgrade."


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## Kerbouchard (Jul 2, 2011)

The Bokeh on a 50mm 1.8 is not great.  Perhaps, for those who have never been able to throw their background out of focus it is magical, but on the grand scheme of things, the bokeh from a 50mm 1.8 is pretty poor.

If the OP knows his D3000 pretty well and already feels limited, the D5000/5100 will start to bore him after a few weeks.  It just isn't that much of a change.

The D90/D300/D7000 actually offer some chance for improvement if we are going strictly camera bodies.
For lenses, the 18-55 is incredibly limiting.  A 70-300 VR, 16-85, or even an 18-105 VR would make a big difference and open up a lot of possibilities.
One thing not mentioned, if you want to shoot people, you need a flash.  A flash is probably the biggest difference maker a beginner can purchase.  Throw in a 5 in 1 reflector and you go from somebody who used to capture what was in front of them to somebody who creates the image they want.


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## jdag (Jul 2, 2011)

Kerbouchard said:


> If the OP knows his D3000 pretty well and already feels limited, the D5000/5100 will start to bore him after a few weeks.  It just isn't that much of a change.The D90/D300/D7000 actually offer some chance for improvement if we are going strictly camera bodies....


+1 again...several people have advised the OP that the D5100 is a good camera but a modest upgrade, yet the OP seems to have already made up his mind


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## Max713 (Jul 2, 2011)

Anton1609 said:


> Max713 said:
> 
> 
> > Anton1609 said:
> ...


The D90 + D. 100%.
The D5100 has a newer/better sensor, but that's about its only advantage over the D90. I don't count movie abilities on an DSLR as an advantage...
I upgraded from a D60 to a D90, huge difference and I'm very happy with the upgrade, buuuuuut... I had the need for more within a month of the upgrade. I'm now patiently waiting the release of the D400 (or equivalent). 
Also, I'd ditch the 18-55... if you don't have much room to upgrade, the 18-70 &#402;3.5-4.5 is a fantastic performer for the price (~$180 used), it is rated a bit better than the 18-105.

Let me google that for you 



Anton1609 said:


> Thanks. Why I want buy D5100? I want to start shoot HDR photos ( it has bracketing, D3000 - no)









I'd say about 95% of the time, a photographers image will suffer from HDR, very few can really pull it off correctly.
Not a stab at HDR users on here, just speaking what I feel is the truth, many share this view.


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## Anton1609 (Jul 2, 2011)

*Kerbouchard*, I have already bought SB-700. Flash is primary thing in photographing.

Ok. Why I wrote on this forum? Because I need a solution. If everybody say that D90 is better than D5100, it means I buy D90.
So, here is another problem. I need some lens for it ( 2 variant ):
- 18-55 and 50mm/1.8D
- 18-105
What you think?


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## Kerbouchard (Jul 2, 2011)

jdag said:


> Kerbouchard said:
> 
> 
> > If the OP knows his D3000 pretty well and already feels limited, the D5000/5100 will start to bore him after a few weeks.  It just isn't that much of a change.The D90/D300/D7000 actually offer some chance for improvement if we are going strictly camera bodies....
> ...



Well, in a case like this, the OP's decision is the only one that matters.  I refuse to take place in an 'us vs them' debate.

I just figured I would throw in my .02 on what experience has taught me.  But to tell you the truth, I think the OP would be better off with a D3000, kit lens, and an SB600 than he would with a D7000 and a 50mm 1.8.  Honestly, the only 'photographers' that I have ever met that don't like flash are those that don't know how to use it.  Obviously, a D90 or above would give him a lot more options with an external flash since he could control it wirelessly without any extra attachments, but any time I see a poster wanting to upgrade his camera body before he has purchased a flash, it lets me know that he is dead set on learning things the hard way.  Heck, I learned things the hard way, too.  Made me a better photographer, too.  

To each his own.


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## Kerbouchard (Jul 2, 2011)

Anton1609 said:


> *Kerbouchard*, I have already bought SB-700. Flash is primary thing in photographing.
> 
> Ok. Why I wrote on this forum? Because I need a solution. If everybody say that D90 is better than D5100, it means I buy D90.
> So, here is another problem. I need some lens for it ( 2 variant ):
> ...


Well, crap, that means I just typed my entire last post for nothing.

Ok, we'll start over.  What are your goals?  You seem to be all over the place.  In your first post you mention a fisheye lens, but you seem to have a overall preference for people photograpahy.  A fisheye lens, IMO, is a gimmick lens good for a few different shots, but definitely nothing to do a complete shoot with.

Ok, so you have an SB700, I assume you know it has the ability to be used as a remote flash with the appropriate camera body(D90/D7000/D300/D700/etc).  Using and learning off camera flash is enough to keep you from getting bored for a while.  I have the 50mm 1.8.  I love it.  Heck, I use it a lot when I am assisting in weddings.  It is a lens I think everybody should own.  The 18-55 is a lens I have never owned and see no value in, so I can't give you good advice on it.

I'll tell you my photo journey, and you can pick and choose as you like.

My daughter was born two years ago and I wanted to take great pictures of her growing up.  There weren't a lot of me, and I wanted her to have her history.  I bought an expensive P&S...paid about $300 for a Samsung HZ-10, I think it was...It sucked indoors and that was the type of photos I was taking.  Next, I decided to buy a D90 kit.  It came with the 18-105 and the 70-300.  I quickly realized I still couldn't take good pics indoors.  I researched and found out that I needed a 50mm 1.8, so I bought it.  Now I could get the shutter speed high enough to not have a blur of a subject, but focus was too shallow and I couldn't take the kind of photos I wanted.  Then I decided to buy an SB-600 and learn bounce flash...Now, I can effectively shoot a moving subject indoors with whatever lens I choose and I am happy with the results.  Since then, I have added a manfrotto tripod, a 35-70 2.8(for around $300), a Sigma 150 2.8 Macro, an SB800(around $300), reflectors, softlighters, umbrellas, stands, etc, and feel I can shoot pretty much anything.

It took me longer to get where I wanted to be than I wanted it to, but now I am assisting in weddings, doing some pro stuff, and getting the quality images of my daughter that I wanted.  I will pick up a full frame Nikon when they release it and will move on from there.

There is always more that you want...The important part is to start with what gives you the most options, so as a very long way of answering your question, I would go with the D90, with the 18-105 coupled with your SB700.  I just feel like it gives you more options.  The next thing I would pick up would be a 5 in 1 reflector...and then the 50mm 1.8.  After you have figured out those toys, you should have a pretty good idea of what you want to upgrade from there, and probably won't be needing to ask us what we think.  You will know where your limitations are and will know what you need to overcome them.  Oh, and save a few bucks for a library card.  There is a wealth of information at the local library or half priced books.  Don't worry so much over the name or the author.  There are a few people on this forum who will tell you that you have to start out with Understanding Exposure by Bryan Peterson...heck, I've never even seen the book, and don't care to look for it.  Exposure is easy, and I don't need to buy a book to understand it, but a few of my personal recommendations is anything by Rick Sammon(he has an enthusiasm for photography that comes through in his writing) or Light, Science and Magic.

In any case, it's more important that you can identify with the style of the author than what I think of a certain book...Just pick a book that you think you will read and go from there.


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## Anton1609 (Jul 2, 2011)

*Kerbouchard*, thank you very much for a detailed answer. It's a really good advice. Why? Because I understand every step of upgrading, and I understand the correctness of every step. 
I explain why I want 50mm/1.8D.
I have a limited amount of money. So I can buy to D90 either 18-105 or 18-55 and 50mm/1.8D. 50mm is great for photographing people ( it's my main task ). So I think 105mm will be less needed than 50mm. It's my opinion. But I can be wrong. I don't know exactly.

One more question. Do I need a synchronizer ( D90 and SB-700 ) for wireless flash shooting?


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## Kerbouchard (Jul 2, 2011)

No, one of the features of the D90 is that it can control most Nikon flashes by itself with no additional equipment needed.  It is called its commander mode.


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## Anton1609 (Jul 2, 2011)

Kerbouchard said:


> No, one of the features of the D90 is that it can control most Nikon flashes by itself with no additional equipment needed.  It is called its commander mode.


Oh! This is an important point. No chance to D5100!


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