# Going to start using watermarks!  Very upset and disturbed.



## clbryant19811 (Mar 28, 2017)

So last night I'm browsing around looking at different photography stuff when I stumble across a picture on a prominent photography website that looked all too familiar.  It was one that I took and posted in a different forum a couple years ago.  And to make it worse, was of one of my kids!!!  I have never used a watermark because I'm just a hobbyist, but now will.  Also I sent a notice to 500px that the picture was mine and not the other parties work as they claimed.  They were quick and efficient, the person is no longer a registered user and picture is down.


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## Derrel (Mar 28, 2017)

Wow, what can awful experience that must have been.


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## 480sparky (Mar 28, 2017)

Adding a watermark isn't going to stop image theft.

If you don't want your work stolen, don't post it online.


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## waday (Mar 28, 2017)

480sparky said:


> If you don't want your work stolen, don't post it online.


Victim blaming...


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## waday (Mar 28, 2017)

clbryant19811 said:


> So last night I'm browsing around looking at different photography stuff when I stumble across a picture on a prominent photography website that looked all too familiar.  It was one that I took and posted in a different forum a couple years ago.  And to make it worse, was of one of my kids!!!  I have never used a watermark because I'm just a hobbyist, but now will.  Also I sent a notice to 500px that the picture was mine and not the other parties work as they claimed.  They were quick and efficient, the person is no longer a registered user and picture is down.


Glad to see that 500px acted efficiently!


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## KmH (Mar 28, 2017)

Yep. The only sure way to prevent the theft of online images is to not put images online.
A watermark can be cloned out or cropped away if it's along an edge.

If you decide to put photos online anyway it takes more than just a watermark.
Five Things You Can Do to Protect Your Online Images |


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## Gary A. (Mar 28, 2017)

waday said:


> 480sparky said:
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> 
> > If you don't want your work stolen, don't post it online.
> ...


... Or just a reality of the internet.


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## Gary A. (Mar 28, 2017)

As upsetting as getting ripped off is, (as it was a photo of your kid really makes it personal), it is also a compliment and attests to you abilities as a photographer.


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## waday (Mar 28, 2017)

Gary A. said:


> waday said:
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> > 480sparky said:
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Of course it can happen, but to blame the victim is wrong.


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## table1349 (Mar 28, 2017)

waday said:


> Gary A. said:
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> > waday said:
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Putting your photos on line for all to see is like printing you photos and hanging them on the outside of your studio window.  They are there for all to see as well as all to steal.  Is theft wrong?  *Yes.*  Does it happen anyway? *Yes.  *

Living in the real world isn't victim blaming, nor is it cowardice, it's being realistic.  Like locking your doors at night.


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## Braineack (Mar 28, 2017)

stealing is wrong and no one suggested otherwise, but suggesting that the only real way to prevent it is to not post images publicly is not victim blaming.

next time someone posts:  serves you right for posting your images online, you deserved to have them stolen, and the thief didn't do anything wrong.

then you can cry about victim blaming...


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## waday (Mar 28, 2017)

Why does TPF have an option that says "Photos not ok to edit" if the user deserves to have the photos stolen/edited?


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## waday (Mar 28, 2017)

Good article: The Psychology of Victim-Blaming

A few select quotes:



> Any time someone defaults to questioning what a victim could have done differently to prevent a crime, he or she is participating, to some degree, in the culture of victim-blaming.





> While Gilin notes that people are more likely to be sympathetic to victims that they know well, reading about crimes reported in the media can sometimes increase a tendency for victim-blaming. The victims people read about in the media are usually strangers to them, and those stories can trigger that cognitive dissonance between the ingrained belief in a just world and clear evidence that life is not always fair. What’s more, if the coverage focuses on the victim’s experience and story—even in a sympathetic way—Niemi and Young’s research suggests it might increase the likelihood of victim-blaming.





> “In my experience, having worked with a lot of victims and people around them, people blame victims so that they can continue to feel safe themselves,” Gilin explains.


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## Braineack (Mar 28, 2017)

waday said:


> Why does TPF have an option that says "Photos not ok to edit" if the user deserves to have the photos stolen/edited?



you and i and the only two people here the used the word deserve...  why do you keep making up alternative facts?


isn't the OP's use of now watermarking photo victim-blaming?  it in itself is victim-blaming to suggest another photo would get stolen if no action is taking when posting publically online...

had we suggested using watermarks, would it have not also been victim-blaming?


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## waday (Mar 28, 2017)

I'm saddened and somewhat surprised to see so many people blame someone for posting a picture online and having someone else steal it.

We place such pride in ourselves here on the forum to quickly point out that we shouldn't post others photos; we go as far as to have moderators remove the photos within minutes in many cases. But, when a user has their own photo stolen and tells us about it, we chide them?

Shame on us.


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## table1349 (Mar 28, 2017)

waday said:


> Why does TPF have an option that says "Photos not ok to edit" if the user deserves to have the photos stolen/edited?


And the OP's photos were stolen from TPF?  I missed that part.


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## table1349 (Mar 28, 2017)

waday said:


> I'm saddened and somewhat surprised to see so many people blame someone for posting a picture online and having someone else steal it.
> 
> We place such pride in ourselves here on the forum to quickly point out that we shouldn't post others photos; we go as far as to have moderators remove the photos within minutes in many cases. But, when a user has their own photo stolen and tells us about it, we chide them?
> 
> Shame on us.


Well the next time your children are playing in traffic I won't bother to point out to them that it might be better if they did not do so.  I wouldn't want to victim blame them.

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## waday (Mar 28, 2017)

gryphonslair99 said:


> waday said:
> 
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> > Why does TPF have an option that says "Photos not ok to edit" if the user deserves to have the photos stolen/edited?
> ...


No. I made the mistake of assuming people on here could make a connection to the fact that we on TPF try to respect other's photos, so we would be somewhat sympathetic. I was wrong in that assumption.


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## waday (Mar 28, 2017)

gryphonslair99 said:


> Well the next time your children are playing in traffic I won't bother to point out to them that it might be better if they did not do so. I wouldn't want to victim blame them.


Wow...

I think I'm done here.


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## jsecordphoto (Mar 28, 2017)

Stop being so absurd and talking about victim blaming. If you post photos online they can and will be stolen, whether you use a watermark or not. It's the reality of posting online. Yes, it's a little more upsetting that's it's a photo of your kids, but it happens. I deal with image theft CONSTANTLY.


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## Braineack (Mar 28, 2017)

jsecordphoto said:


> I deal with image theft CONSTANTLY.


that's racist.


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## limr (Mar 28, 2017)

I think that's hot enough, kids.


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## astroNikon (Mar 28, 2017)

I post very few images online, so very few can get stolen. 

But I'd get upset too if pics of my kids were being used elsewhere.  My soccer /baseball /football pics are mostly of elementary to high school kids.  I'll let the parents let the pics get stolen from their public postings vs mine.

Just last month there was an uproar when an image from CoastalConn was stolen and used on another website (and won a contest).


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## pixmedic (Mar 28, 2017)

its a shame that the OP's photos were stolen. in a perfect world, this obviously would not be an issue.
sadly, its a persistent problem within the photography community, especially by those looking to "boost" or "create" a portfolio with the intention of selling themselves as a
"professional photographer".  its an all too familiar scenario. 
The person whos photos were stolen should never have to feel like they were at fault, or were "asking for it" by posting online any more than a woman should be afraid to go out jogging. 
sadly, this is not a perfect world, and things do happen...but the blame should always be placed squarely where it belongs...on the perpetrator. 

what I _*am*_ glad to hear is that the hosting site took swift action, and that the thief was further punished by being barred from using their site again.


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## vintagesnaps (Mar 28, 2017)

I would think about how to at least minimize opportunities for photos to be stolen. Think about where and why you're sharing photos. Look at Terms & Conditions on any site you're considering to see if you may have agreed to this type usage by a website. 

I customize watermarks so it would at least take a certain amount of time to remove so it might be more likely someone would decide it's going to be a PITA to use and not bother. I don't post much online either.

Get informed thru pro photographer organizations like ASMP or PPA. ASMP has done webinars where you can get informed on ways to maintain some control over your photos.


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## DanOstergren (Mar 29, 2017)

Definitely not your fault they were stolen; the thief is the only one to blame. Hopefully the watermark helps.


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## smoke665 (Mar 29, 2017)

pixmedic said:


> the blame should always be placed squarely where it belongs...on the perpetrator.
> 
> what I _*am*_ glad to hear is that the hosting site took swift action, and that the thief was further punished by being barred from using their site again.



Best answer!!!  As others have pointed out the internet is a dangerous place, so is any public road in the country. You don't stop driving because of the danger, you take care, and hope that the law will limit your exposure to those who don't.


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## loonatic45414 (Apr 1, 2017)

I think that posting online is a great way to have your talent recognized. Simply not posting online isn't a viable option for many aspiring artists.

Sent from my 0PJA2 using Tapatalk


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## table1349 (Apr 1, 2017)

How did we ever survive with out the internet?   I'm surprised that anyone has ever heard of guys like Rembrandt, Monet, Picasso,  Michangelo, as well as folks like Bach or Beethoven.  They didn't even have cellphones, television, radio, or newspapers, much less electricity and all that goes with it.  

How did all of them go from aspiring young artists to masters of their class with out instant gratification?  Maybe a smidgen of talent combined with dedication, hard work, and a passion for what the did instead of instant fame?


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## Overread (Apr 1, 2017)

Gryph didn't most of those people die poor or at least only make it as modest to semi-great in their day and it was only post-mortem that they became internationally famous mega-bucks earning super-stars?


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## table1349 (Apr 2, 2017)

Overread said:


> Gryph didn't most of those people die poor or at least only make it as modest to semi-great in their day and it was only post-mortem that they became internationally famous mega-bucks earning super-stars?


It hasn't changed much.  Most of them lived acceptably.   Those were the days of patronage.  You were supported to be an artist by the rich.


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## DarkShadow (Apr 2, 2017)

Whats more disturbing to me is that person stole the photo of your kid or kids, thats just weird and really creepy.


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## Gary A. (Apr 2, 2017)

DarkShadow said:


> Whats more disturbing to me is that person stole the photo of your kid or kids, thats just weird and really creepy.


Reminds of a guy I knew who would buy picture frames and keep the pictures that came with them. He'd tell people they were family. He was odd.


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## Vtec44 (Apr 2, 2017)

I had my work stolen a few times, it's upsetting.  Sorry that you had to go through with it. 

On another note, yeah because of that I rarely post family photos online.  If I do, it's private for only a few people to share and typically they're cell phone photos.  Even with that, I don't share a lot of personal stuff online.


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## jcdeboever (Apr 2, 2017)

I post a lot of images online, none of mine get stolen. Time to practice. I'm a victim of my crappy self.


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## Peeb (Apr 2, 2017)

jsecordphoto said:


> ...  I deal with image theft CONSTANTLY.


That is because you produce amazing images!

I've posted hundreds of images online and while some are pretty OK, they have never risen to the level of theft-worthy.

So, my advice is not watermarking- it's mediocrity!


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## table1349 (Apr 2, 2017)

W


Gary A. said:


> DarkShadow said:
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> > Whats more disturbing to me is that person stole the photo of your kid or kids, thats just weird and really creepy.
> ...


I'll bet it was that photo of Marilyn Monroe that gave it away wasn't it?


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## table1349 (Apr 2, 2017)

jcdeboever said:


> I post a lot of images online, none of mine get stolen. Time to practice. I'm a victim of my crappy self.


Oh quite blaming yourself.


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## jcdeboever (Apr 2, 2017)

gryphonslair99 said:


> jcdeboever said:
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> > I post a lot of images online, none of mine get stolen. Time to practice. I'm a victim of my crappy self.
> ...


OK

Sent from my SM-T377V using ThePhotoForum.com mobile app


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## astroNikon (Apr 3, 2017)

jcdeboever said:


> I post a lot of images online, none of mine get stolen. Time to practice. I'm a victim of my crappy self.


I steal yours all the time.
I just don't tell you about it.


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## jcdeboever (Apr 3, 2017)

astroNikon said:


> jcdeboever said:
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> > I post a lot of images online, none of mine get stolen. Time to practice. I'm a victim of my crappy self.
> ...


Lol.


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## thereyougo! (Apr 4, 2017)

waday said:


> I'm saddened and somewhat surprised to see so many people blame someone for posting a picture online and having someone else steal it.
> 
> We place such pride in ourselves here on the forum to quickly point out that we shouldn't post others photos; we go as far as to have moderators remove the photos within minutes in many cases. But, when a user has their own photo stolen and tells us about it, we chide them?
> 
> Shame on us.



I don't see it as chiding the OP.  People are just stating that it is one of the unfortunate consequences of posting items online.  It annoys me no end.  I had a query on social media about purchasing a photo, and before I had a chance to message them to tell them where to buy it, someone replied to them advising them to right click and save, and then it would be free.  I immediately blocked and banned the responder from my page. 

It also doesn't help that there is so much misinformation about ownership of images and copyright.  I was in a discussion on Facebook the other day and there was a guy that was saying that once you post a photo on Facebook, you lose any rights to it because it becomes public domain.  He quoted his photography lecturer at university as saying this - I wouldn't go to that uni to study photography.  So apparently not even some photography lecturers understand that when you post an image on Facebook or instagram whatever that you are giving them a royalty free license of the image, and that this doesn't change copyright or image ownership. 

This confusion of the rights means that people think it's perfectly fine to steal images.  They don't see any wrong in it, as they think it's in public domain and therefore free of any copyright.  They don't see the difference between 'in public view' and 'in the public domain'

As far as the 'photos NOT OK to edit' that is a courtesy of this forum that is followed by the vast majority of people of this forum.  It's a courtesy that is part of being in a community.  I rather suspect that mods take a very dim view of this being ignored.


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## 480sparky (Apr 4, 2017)

waday said:


> 480sparky said:
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> > If you don't want your work stolen, don't post it online.
> ...



I was going to refrain from responding to this, but since the thread is still open:

I'm not blaming the OP.  Let me repeat that:

_I'm not blaming the OP_. 


You seem to infer I am.  That is wrong. Period.  I'm merely stating _stuff happens in life._


If this is your logic, then is every accident you've ever had your fault because your mother once told you 'Always wear clean underwear in case you're in an accident.'?

She never said all accidents will be your fault.  She was just trying to tell you stuff happens in life.

Same principle applies here. Stuff happens.  And one of those things that happens is people steal stuff off the internet.  We can pass all sorts of international laws, have policies on internet forums, and discuss it and condemn it until we're blue in the face.  That none of that will prevent it from happening.  Internet theft started about 3 seconds after Al Gore invented it.

The only way to prevent on-line image theft (with an absolute, 100% guarantee) is to not post something on the internet.  It's that simple. If you want to never have your car stolen, the only way to guarantee that is to not own a car.  If you buy a car, you lose that 100% guarantee it will never be stolen.  If you drive said car, you lose the 100% guarantee you'll never be in an accident.

Them's the facts.


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## Gary A. (Apr 4, 2017)

astroNikon said:


> jcdeboever said:
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> > I post a lot of images online, none of mine get stolen. Time to practice. I'm a victim of my crappy self.
> ...


And I steal yours ... (didn't know they were JC's).


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## waday (Apr 4, 2017)

480sparky said:


> waday said:
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I appreciate your response, and I know "them's the facts".

Using your example, if someone steals your car, we don't go around asking, "Why did you buy a car, you knew this was a possibility?"... The typical response is, "That's sad to hear; did they catch the thief?"

I guess I have trouble with the fact that the-collective-we tended to focus on the person that got the images stolen rather than on the perpetrator.


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## table1349 (Apr 4, 2017)

waday said:


> 480sparky said:
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> > waday said:
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Perhaps that is because the collective we can offer the OP some constructive advice on how to reduce the risks.  The thief didn't post here with a problem, the OP did.


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## waday (Apr 4, 2017)

gryphonslair99 said:


> Perhaps that is because the collective we can offer the OP some constructive advice on how to reduce the risks. The thief didn't post here with a problem, the OP did.


Sure, we can offer some constructive advice. However, the advice to simply not post online is not constructive.

Using the car stealing analogy, would you simply tell the person to not buy another car?


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## thereyougo! (Apr 4, 2017)

waday said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
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> > Perhaps that is because the collective we can offer the OP some constructive advice on how to reduce the risks. The thief didn't post here with a problem, the OP did.
> ...



But the advice actually given *isn't* to not post online.  It's a warning of the consequences of posting online.  It is infuriating and frustrating, for sure, but that's the risk for everyone, not just the OP.  

There is also advice in this thread about how the OP can do things to help prevent theft, much like an alarm on a car.  Skilled people will find their ways around the defences that we put in place, and we have to bear that in mind when posting.


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## waday (Apr 4, 2017)

@thereyougo!, I agree that there is some sound advice on this thread. Absolutely. Sadly, it only got there after getting pretty heated, the fault of all parties involved (except for @480sparky who was the only sane person by avoiding the discussion; a sincere thank you for being level headed and an apology on my part for sparking the discussion).

This thread doesn't need more of the same discussion, so I'm going to leave the thread, again. 

Good luck to the OP.


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## john.margetts (Apr 4, 2017)

waday said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
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> 
> > Perhaps that is because the collective we can offer the OP some constructive advice on how to reduce the risks. The thief didn't post here with a problem, the OP did.
> ...


I would advise them not to leave the car parked in a public place with the keys in the ignition.

I


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## ZombiesniperJr (Apr 4, 2017)

Braineack said:


> stealing is wrong and no one suggested otherwise, but suggesting that the only real way to prevent it is to not post images publicly is not victim blaming.
> 
> next time someone posts:  serves you right for posting your images online, you deserved to have them stolen, and the thief didn't do anything wrong.
> 
> then you can cry about victim blaming...


just because someone post's there photos online does not
Mean they deserve to have them stolen as the person who took the photo owns the rights to it


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## thereyougo! (Apr 4, 2017)

ZombiesniperJr said:


> Braineack said:
> 
> 
> > stealing is wrong and no one suggested otherwise, but suggesting that the only real way to prevent it is to not post images publicly is not victim blaming.
> ...



Agreed, but I don't see anyone saying that people deserve to have their work stolen.  It's something that yo have to calculate for unfortunately.  People that wouldn't dream of stealing from a shop will watch a bootleg movie online.  The difficulty is that most people don't see it as theft. 

The value of all things artistic, be that photos, music or film is so devalued now that many people see no value in it.  They don't care that the 2048px shot they right-clicked from Facebook when they try and print it looks like crap - *it's FREE*.  Will people ever learn the real value of artistic work?  I would like to  think so, but I aint gonna hold my breath.


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## table1349 (Apr 4, 2017)

waday said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> > Perhaps that is because the collective we can offer the OP some constructive advice on how to reduce the risks. The thief didn't post here with a problem, the OP did.
> ...


No one said don't post them on line.  But people did point out the dangers of doing so.  You however chose to accuse those poster for victim blaming for pointing out the dangers of the OP's current actions. 

As for the car analogy, I would tell them to roll up the windows, put all valuables in the trunk or out of site until you can remove them, and lock the doors.  I would also tell them to park the vehicle in their garage at home if they have one instead of leaving it out on the street and leave nothing of value in the vehicle.   Simple things that a lot of people don't either know or bother to do.


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## ZombiesniperJr (Apr 4, 2017)

thereyougo! said:


> ZombiesniperJr said:
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> > Braineack said:
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Look at my quote and read it he states that they deserve it
If they post it online


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## Overread (Apr 4, 2017)

Ok I think enough was said in the opening days of this thread for the OP to have some idea how to take precautions. We don't need a long multi-page thread arguing about variations in interpretations of blame.


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