# Paul C. Buff Setup Question.



## jwbryson1

I've decided to get the Paul C. Buff CyberSyncs and have some questions.  Big Mike--you out there?

I have a D90, a Nikon SB-700 speedlight and 2 Yongnuo 560's.

1.  Should I trigger all 3 speedlights with CyberSync receivers?  I think I'd prefer to shoot just the 2 YN's with CS receivers but trigger the SB-700 wirelessly through the D90 to maintain the ability to adjust the SB-700 through the camera's custom settings menu.  Can this be done?  Is this the best way to proceed?

2.  If I want to trigger the SB-700 with the D90's pop up flash, will the CS transmitter in the camera's hot shoe block the pop up flash from opening or otherwise interfere with it?

3.  I just bought 2 of these Stroboframe Flash Mount Adapter - Standard Shoe Type 300-SHO B&H to use with my YN 560s.  Thinking through my set up, that means that I would have the lightstand, then the stroboframe flash mount adapter, then the Paul C. Buff hot shoe adapter, then the YN 560 locked in to that.  Does that seem like a sturdy set up?

4.  Am I missing anything?

Thanks!


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## MLeeK

1. You will not be able to use the camera's pop up to trigger the SB if you have a trigger mounted on your camera, so yep. You'll need to have a receiver for the flashes. HOWEVER... if you are setting the flashes manually and they have slave mode to them (where another flash will trigger them) then you can skip the triggers for the other two. 

2. Back to 1.

3. What are you using for a modifier? The flash mount adapter is not necessary, the buff hotshoe adapter will mount on a standard light stand. BUT you also need to figure out what your modifier is there before you finish deciding what you need.

4. See what I said for 3


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## jwbryson1

MLeeK said:


> HOWEVER... if you are setting the flashes manually and they have slave mode to them (where another flash will trigger them) then you can skip the triggers for the other two.



I want to say yes, the YN 560's will work as a slave, but I'm not 100% on that.  I just got them and haven't used them at all.





MLeeK said:


> 3. What are you using for a modifier? The flash mount adapter is not necessary, the buff hotshoe adapter will mount on a standard light stand. BUT you also need to figure out what your modifier is there before you finish deciding what you need.



Shoot through white umbrellas or black on white reflective umbrellas.  I'm not sure how the speedlight adapter will affect the modifiers?


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## Big Mike

I don't have a ton of experience with camera (Canon/Nikon) wireless flash triggering...some, but not a whole lot.  

One common issue that it seams to have, is that the location you're in (indoors vs outdoors) and how much light you're working in, will affect how reliable the communication is.  That makes sense because it's using light.  The usual example is that if you're shooting in bright sunlight, you're wireless camera to flash communication  will need to have direct line of sight, and even then, it can be hit and miss.  

Also, I'm not sure what the hot shoe is doing when the built-in flash is popped up.  It may work, it may not...you'd have to ask a Nikon owner.  The Cyber Sync transmitter is fairly small and only goes vertical from the hot-shoe, so I don't think it would physically interfere with the flash, but again, I'm not sure.  

So I guess what I'm saying, is that I'd recommend getting 3 receivers (if you really need three remote flashes at this time).  You can always experiment with triggering one of them via the Nikon wireless system.

Another thing I'm not sure of...but do any of those flashes have a built in optical trigger?  I know that some Nikon units do (and some 3rd party as well).  If they do, you might be able to get away with fewer receivers and just use the optical trigger...but those can also tend to have communication issue, especially in bright light or over long distance etc.  And of course, if you're in a situation where someone else might use a flash, you don't want your lights on optical triggers.

So again, you'll probably save yourself many headaches if you just have a proper receiver for each unit.  Especially if you're planing on shooting in different scenarios & places etc.  

The typical set up is to use a swivel umbrella adapter (whether or nor you're actually using an umbrella.  As it allows you to tilt the flash on top of the stand.  Plus, you can attach to the stand via the typical 5/8" stud, not just the 1/4" threads.  
_(as noted, the hot shoe adapter will take the place of those shoe clips, so you probably don't need them)_ 
And yes, if your flashes don't have sync sockets, then you'll have to get shoe adapters with a sync socket (I'd recommend mono/mini phone sockets, not PC).  

It sort of does make for an unwieldy stack of adapters etc.  So you do have to tighten everything well and often, but that's part of the price we pay for the portability of using flash units as 'studio lights'.


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## MLeeK

If something is mounted on the hot shoe that will not interfere with the on board popping up there is a trigger in the side of the hotshoe mount that will then prevent your on board flash from firing or popping up. The camera knows when something is there even if it isn't physically holding the flash down. 

I am adding this here from our PM's cuz there are bound to be questions... You're using umbrellas
You'll need an umbrella bracket adapter to use an umbrella with your speedlights. You won't need the B&H adapter you talked about ordering at all. 
The umbrella bracket will have a coldshoe mount on it (coldshoe cuz it cannot fire the lights in any way.) If you cannot use a sync cord with the YN's (and I don't know, haven't used them) then you would need the Buff adapter so you can run a sync cord from the receiver to the adapter to fire your flashes.


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## cgipson1

jwbryson1 said:


> MLeeK said:
> 
> 
> 
> HOWEVER... if you are setting the flashes manually and they have slave mode to them (where another flash will trigger them) then you can skip the triggers for the other two.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I want to say yes, the YN 560's will work as a slave, but I'm not 100% on that.  I just got them and haven't used them at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MLeeK said:
> 
> 
> 
> 3. What are you using for a modifier? The flash mount adapter is not necessary, the buff hotshoe adapter will mount on a standard light stand. BUT you also need to figure out what your modifier is there before you finish deciding what you need.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Shoot through white umbrellas or black on white reflective umbrellas.  I'm not sure how the speedlight adapter will affect the modifiers?
Click to expand...


The YN 560's have two Optical slave modes.. one is normal slave (sees flash.. it goes) and the other is ignore preflash for CLS systems.... you don't need triggers for the 560's.

I have never used the cyber-syncs... but do use PW's. And I can control the Nikon CLS system from the camera, by placing an SU-800.. or a Master Flash in the hot-shoe on the PW (in other words, I can mix PW's and CLS with no problems... I don't know if the Cyber-Syncs even have a hotshoe or not.. I don't think so.


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## MLeeK

I just looked at the YN560 II and you shouldn't need the buff adapter either, it has a sync port. It can also be optically triggered (slave)


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## MLeeK

Are you looking at the cyber commander or at the CST and receivers?


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## jwbryson1

MLeeK said:


> If something is mounted on the hot shoe that will not interfere with the on board popping up there is a trigger in the side of the hotshoe mount that will then prevent your on board flash from firing or popping up. The camera knows when something is there even if it isn't physically holding the flash down.



Understood---I think there is actually an adapter you can buy that raises the hot shoe up on the camera so the pop up flash can still open, but I'm not looking at getting one of those.



MLeeK said:


> I am adding this here from our PM's cuz there are bound to be questions... You're using umbrellas.  You'll need an umbrella bracket adapter to use an umbrella with your speedlights. You won't need the B&H adapter you talked about ordering at all.



I have 3 umbrella bracket adapters and have used a single adapter on portraits.  I just got my other 2 speedlights and 2 more umbrellas so I'm trying to figure out how to use all of the together.

Thanks for the response.


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## jwbryson1

MLeeK said:


> Are you looking at the cyber commander or at the CST and receivers?



No no no....

Looking at these:

Paul C. Buff - CyberSync Trigger Transmitter

Paul C. Buff - CyberSync Receivers

Paul C. Buff - Speedlight Foot Adapter

Battery powered everything.


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## jwbryson1

cgipson1 said:


> The YN 560's have two Optical slave modes.. one is normal slave (sees flash.. it goes) and the other is ignore preflash for CLS systems.... you don't need triggers for the 560's.



Wait--are you saying that the YN 560's can be triggered when the SB-700 fires?  If that's true, then WTH do I need anything from PCBUFF?  I can just trigger the SB-700 with the CLS and let the SB-700 trigger the YN 560s, right?

Am I missing something?


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## cgipson1

My advice would be to not bother with the pop-up flash CLS... it doesn't work that well in bright sunlight, or at any distance. If you have another Nikon flash that you can use as a master.. that can help extend the range.. but still not great.


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## jwbryson1

cgipson1 said:


> My advice would be to not bother with the pop-up flash CLS... it doesn't work that well in bright sunlight, or at any distance. If you have another Nikon flash that you can use as a master.. that can help extend the range.. but still not great.



Let's assume I'm indoors with no sunlight at all...


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## cgipson1

jwbryson1 said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The YN 560's have two Optical slave modes.. one is normal slave (sees flash.. it goes) and the other is ignore preflash for CLS systems.... you don't need triggers for the 560's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wait--are you saying that the YN 560's can be triggered when the SB-700 fires?  If that's true, then WTH do I need anything from PCBUFF?  I can just trigger the SB-700 with the CLS and let the SB-700 trigger the YN 560s, right?
> 
> Am I missing something?
Click to expand...


Yes... Exactly! The 560's are full slave capable.. you don't need triggers for those, as long are you are in an environment where they can see the SB-700 go off!


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## cgipson1

jwbryson1 said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My advice would be to not bother with the pop-up flash CLS... it doesn't work that well in bright sunlight, or at any distance. If you have another Nikon flash that you can use as a master.. that can help extend the range.. but still not great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's assume I'm indoors with no sunlight at all...
Click to expand...


YN 560 slave mode.. boom!  you could control the 700 from the camera... but why, if your other two flashes are full manual? I guess it might be convenient if it was a hard to reach hairlight and you needed to adjust the power....


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## jwbryson1

cgipson1 said:


> YN 560 slave mode.. boom!



Well dammit, Jim, I owe you a case of beer!  :lmao:  You just saved me $300!   You, sir, are GOLDEN.

Until such time as I decide to shoot outdoors in sunlight and need the wireless system...


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## cgipson1

jwbryson1 said:


> cgipson1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> YN 560 slave mode.. boom!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well dammit, Jim, I owe you a case of beer!  :lmao:  You just saved me $300!   You, sir, are GOLDEN.
> 
> Until such time as I decide to shoot outdoors in sunlight and need the wireless system...
Click to expand...


The Yongnuo 560's have two slave modes as I mentioned.. if I remember correctly.. S1 is normal slave.. S2 is where it will ignore pre-flash, and allow you to use your 700 in TTL mode if you choose.... 

I use my 560's primarily as hair / rim / background lights when I don't want to carry monolights with me... they work pretty well.


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## MLeeK

You aren't using a system like the pocketwizards that will be controlling your flash from the camera, so... Nope. I wouldn't buy a trigger for either of the YN's.
I'd probably go for a trigger & receiver for the one dedicated SB flash to get it off my camera and have consistency and capability in more difficult situations-even though I have a dedicated space I know I don't always shoot there and I do use flashes elsewhere that I wouldn't expect the CLS system to consistently work in. 
I don't think I'd go with the Buff product-it's not TTL and as far as I am concerned it's an overpriced version several different radio slaves. 
I am all for getting all flash off the camera if at all possible. 

If your cheapie cowboy's arrive today you are great with that for now.


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## jwbryson1

cgipson1 said:


> The Yongnuo 560's have two slave modes as I mentioned.. if I remember correctly.. S1 is normal slave.. S2 is where it will ignore pre-flash, and allow you to use your 700 in TTL mode if you choose....
> 
> I use my 560's primarily as hair / rim / background lights when I don't want to carry monolights with me... they work pretty well.



That's exactly right.  Just what I want to use them for too.  Thanks so much for the help!


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## cgipson1

MLeeK said:


> You aren't using a system like the pocketwizards that will be controlling your flash from the camera, so... Nope. I wouldn't buy a trigger for either of the YN's.
> I'd probably go for a trigger & receiver for the one dedicated SB flash to get it off my camera and have consistency and capability in more difficult situations-even though I have a dedicated space I know I don't always shoot there and I do use flashes elsewhere that I wouldn't expect the CLS system to consistently work in.
> I don't think I'd go with the Buff product-it's not TTL and as far as I am concerned it's an overpriced version several different radio slaves.
> I am all for getting all flash off the camera if at all possible.
> 
> If your cheapie cowboy's arrive today you are great with that for now.



I would only buy the Buff gear if I was heavily invested in Buff lighting.. ( which I do like!).. but pocket wizards are much more versatile, and work with every light out there (with the correct cable!). So even then. I would prefer the PW's...


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## kundalini

MLeeK said:


> 1. You will not be able to use the camera's pop up to trigger the SB if you have a trigger mounted on your camera, so yep.





MLeeK said:


> If something is mounted on the hot shoe that will not interfere with the on board popping up there is a trigger in the side of the hotshoe mount that will then prevent your on board flash from firing or popping up. The camera knows when something is there even if it isn't physically holding the flash down.



Sorry, but this is untrue for Nikon.  You can have the Cybersync transmitter in the hotshoe, have the built-in flash popped up and still trigger a remote flash optically without a receiver on the flash unit.


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## kundalini

cgipson1 said:


> I would only buy the Buff gear if I was heavily invested in Buff lighting.. ( which I do like!).. but pocket wizards are much more versatile, and work with every light out there (with the correct cable!). So even then. I would prefer the PW's...


Although the PWs are an industry standard, the come at a high price.  The PCB Cybersync's are a univeral radio trigger.  PCB lighting equipment is not required.  Nothing magical about the Cybersync's.


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## Big Mike

Yes, the appeal of the Cyber Sync system (the basic triggers, not the Cyber Commander and plus receivers) is that they pretty much have the same great reliability as Pocket Wizards (although, without the 1600' range)...but cost much less.  

But lately, there seems to be more and more cheap radio triggers popping up on the market.  Some people have had great results from these, and others find that they are indeed pretty cheap and unreliable.

It would be great if there was a definitive 'best' options for a simple radio trigger set that cost less than $100 (trigger and receiver).  As mentioned, there are plenty of options...but I haven't seen any body doing some real testing and comparing.


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## MLeeK

kundalini said:


> MLeeK said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. You will not be able to use the camera's pop up to trigger the SB if you have a trigger mounted on your camera, so yep.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MLeeK said:
> 
> 
> 
> If something is mounted on the hot shoe that will not interfere with the on board popping up there is a trigger in the side of the hotshoe mount that will then prevent your on board flash from firing or popping up. The camera knows when something is there even if it isn't physically holding the flash down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, but this is untrue for Nikon.  You can have the Cybersync transmitter in the hotshoe, have the built-in flash popped up and still trigger a remote flash optically without a receiver on the flash unit.
Click to expand...



I learned something new there! I know I cannot pop the flash up on  my canons once something is mounted on the shoe and the design is such  that nothing could be mounted on the shoe without interfering in the pop  up coming up.


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## kundalini

I should clarify that I tested it only with the D700. YMMV.


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## SCraig

If you have questions give them a call.  They supposedly have excellent customer service.  1-800-443-5542 9:00-5:00 CST.

I don't personally have any of their gear but they are only a couple of miles from my home, so one of these days I probably will.


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## Big Mike

I just tested it out on my 20D and the pop-up flash does come above the hotshoe, so the two can't be used at once.  Although, I often have a flash in the hot shoe and attach the transmitter to the camera via the PC port and a short cord...and in emergencies, a really long cord.


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