# Good for a Laugh, anyway



## sm4him (Feb 13, 2012)

Almost embarrassing to post my feeble attempts at bird photography in here, but this is where we've been told to put them so that's what I'll do.
Definitely a beginner in bird photography; been trying out my new 75-300mm f/4.5-5.6 lens, and one of the things I wanted it for was to start doing some bird photography.

Side note: Every time I talk about woodpeckers, in my head, THIS is what I hear:





So anyway. I haven't had time to go to the nature center close to me, or up to the mountains, so I've had to settle, so far, for my backyard. I sneak out in the morning before work and try to find something besides a mockingbird or a starling.

Yesterday, there was a cardinal, but the closest I got to was still probably over 200 feet away, so this is the best I got:



Shutter: 1/400, f/5.6, 300mm, 3200 ISO (not sure why I had it that high, might have just forgotten to change it)

This morning, I tried to go out and stalk the bird feeder; as usual, the bird that was there flew off before I could get to a good angle. As it flew off, I saw a flash of red and wondered if it was the woodpecker I'd been hearing for weeks.  It flew into the nearest tree, but was on the reverse side from me, so I couldn't see. I decided to just stand and wait, to see if it would ever come around to the near side. I was finally rewarded, although it was still probably a good 200 ft. or so away from me.

Downy Woodpecker:



Shutter: 1/400, f/5.6, 300mm, 400 ISO

Closer crop of same photo:





I can never seem to get the sharp details, and I'm not sure if it's because I'm shooting from too far away (which I can't really help, since it's the closest I've been able to get to them so far), or if it's because I'm shooting at the farthest range of my lens, 300mm, or something else, or a combination of things. Would I be better off to shoot at 200mm and crop the image? I need to try that when I get some time, but my sense is I'd lose just as much sharpness by cropping as I would be shooting at the far end of the lens' range.

This morning, I was able to get MUCH closer to a robin--probably about 15-20 feet, but the details are still not sharp. This makes me think I DO need to just try shooting at 200mm or so instead of the full 300mm capability of the lens. Or, maybe I'm just missing focus??  I will say, these were taken while walking down a hill carrying my camera bag, my work backpack and my purse, so I wasn't able to keep the camera as steady as I might have been able to otherwise (though, with my hand tremor, that is always a challenge anyway).

Robin:







Both robin photos have the same exif data as the Woodpecker, because my hands were too full to change any settings.

C&C if you like...or just keep listening to the Woody the Woodpecker laugh...


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## cgipson1 (Feb 13, 2012)

Which lens are you using?   If it is an F4-F5.6 minimum, you really need to stop down at least two stops to get sharp... most lenses are not at their best at wide open aperture. I know that is going to slow down the shutter some... Kick your ISO up a bit, you should still get some good shots. If you have a filter on.. remove it!

Tripod.. or brace that lens against whatever you can....... do you have VR? Is it turned on?


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## HughGuessWho (Feb 13, 2012)

I will refrain from giving C&C, but I must say, I wish I lived where the cardinals and robins were out and the grass was green. The mountains of Tennesse is my favorite place to photograph. Cant wait to get back to Gatlinburg.


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## JessicaLynn (Feb 13, 2012)

i thoroughly enjoy your photo of the cardinal


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## sm4him (Feb 13, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> Which lens are you using?   If it is an F4-F5.6 minimum, you really need to stop down at least two stops to get sharp... most lenses are not at their best at wide open aperture. I know that is going to slow down the shutter some... Kick your ISO up a bit, you should still get some good shots. If you have a filter on.. remove it!
> 
> Tripod.. or brace that lens against whatever you can....... do you have VR? Is it turned on?



Charlie, you're right, durnit, I'm shooting wide open! *DUH.* I know better...but my excuse is that I got it and my 50mm f/1.8 at the same time, and so somehow, when I shoot with the 75-300, my head thinks 5.6 couldn't *possibly* be wide-open.
I'll stop it down a couple of stops and try some more.
VR was on and there was no filter on the lens in any of these.


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## sm4him (Feb 13, 2012)

HughGuessWho said:


> I will refrain from giving C&C, but I must say, I wish I lived where the cardinals and robins were out and the grass was green. The mountains of Tennesse is my favorite place to photograph. Cant wait to get back to Gatlinburg.


I do love it here...home grown Tennessean, with a 12-year stint in Atlanta, GA during the 70s and early 80s.  I've been to some beautiful places, but never seen anywhere else I'd want to call home.


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## sm4him (Feb 13, 2012)

JessicaLynn said:


> i thoroughly enjoy your photo of the cardinal



Thanks; I appreciate that!!


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## jriepe (Feb 13, 2012)

It seems strange reading all this because just last night I was looking at my bird shots and realized they were a bit soft.  I have the Tamron 70-300 lens.  I've taken shots with that lens that are very sharp so I started thinking along the same lines as I'm reading here.  I was thinking are my shots a bit soft because I'm zoomed all the way out or is it because I am using an aperture of f/5.6 or is it a combination of both.  My Tamron lens has VC which works very well.  But naturally that's not going to help with subject movement.  When I shoot birds I will use auto ISO.  For instance I may decide that at 300mm I will need a minimum shutter speed of 1/200 to freeze the subject movement.  I'll set the camera up to shoot at ISO200 with a minimum shutter speed of 1/200sec. If proper exposure can not be reached at that setting the camera will move up to the minimum ISO that will produce proper exposure.  I also will set the max ISO to usually around 1600.  Then I'll shoot in aperture priority knowing my shutter speed will never go below 1/200sec.  Next time I shoot birds I'm going to set the aperture down a couple steps from max to see if that helps with the softness.

Jerry


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## jriepe (Feb 13, 2012)

sm4him said:


> HughGuessWho said:
> 
> 
> > I will refrain from giving C&C, but I must say, I wish I lived where the cardinals and robins were out and the grass was green. The mountains of Tennesse is my favorite place to photograph. Cant wait to get back to Gatlinburg.
> ...



My plans at the moment are to move to Tennessee around the Chattanooga - Cleveland area in two and one half years when my daughter graduates from high school. I love nature, wildlife, mountains and waterfalls.  That will be heaven after living thirty five years next to O'hare Field.  Wish I could go sooner but am divorced and my little girl needs her dad close by.  I'm coming down there next month to look around.

Jerry


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## HughGuessWho (Feb 13, 2012)

sm4him said:


> HughGuessWho said:
> 
> 
> > I will refrain from giving C&C, but I must say, I wish I lived where the cardinals and robins were out and the grass was green. The mountains of Tennesse is my favorite place to photograph. Cant wait to get back to Gatlinburg.
> ...



I would call Easten Tennesse my home in a minute if I could get my New England wife to move with me. Eastern Tennesse is God's Country. And if you cant find something beautiful there to photgraph, you ain't trying very hard.


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## jriepe (Feb 13, 2012)

HughGuessWho said:


> sm4him said:
> 
> 
> > HughGuessWho said:
> ...



If your wife refuses to go that's even better.  Just joking.

Jerry


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## HughGuessWho (Feb 13, 2012)

Dont think it hasnt been considered. Or shall I say, threatened. But she just calls by bluff.


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## sm4him (Feb 13, 2012)

jriepe said:


> sm4him said:
> 
> 
> > HughGuessWho said:
> ...



March will be a great time for a visit...unless we get a blizzard! They keep talking about the fact that the last time we had a winter this mild was just before the blizzard of 93..personally, I wish they'd just shut up and let me enjoy the warm. Last few days have been a brutal return to winter, but after a snow shower or two tonight, the rest of the week is due to improve again, at least back to the 50s.

Why Chattanooga/Cleveland? Just curious...it IS a nice area, I just prefer a bit north. One thing, Chattanooga tends to get worse weather than we do sometimes, because of the way systems hit the plateau in middle TN and either move south or north. The valley often escapes the brunt of storms because of those mountains on the plateau.  

Have you looked around the Maryville area? It's nice. I live in South Knoxville, and if I moved at all, it'd be just down the road either into Maryville, or out into Seymour...a bit closer to the mountains, growing area, but still enough country to make me happy.

We now return to our previously scheduled Bird Photo C&Cs...


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## jriepe (Feb 13, 2012)

sm, I've got over two years to scout out the area and I won't rush my decision.  I'll start my scouting in the Chattanooga - Cleveland area.  During the summer months when my daughter is out of school I can make several trips down there.

Jerry


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## sm4him (Feb 13, 2012)

jriepe said:


> sm, I've got over two years to scout out the area and I won't rush my decision.  I'll start my scouting in the Chattanooga - Cleveland area.  During the summer months when my daughter is out of school I can make several trips down there.
> 
> Jerry



Just wondered if maybe you knew someone in that area, or if you felt like your employment opportunities might be better there.  There are definitely a lot of options--have fun checking them all out! There's really not a BAD choice of where to live in East TN...except maybe Cocke County...if anyone from Cocke County is reading this, sorry it's just a joke! Kinda... 
If you're gonna get close to Knoxville on one of your trips, let me know and I'll try to at least give you some local places to check out.


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## jriepe (Feb 13, 2012)

sm4him said:


> jriepe said:
> 
> 
> > sm, I've got over two years to scout out the area and I won't rush my decision.  I'll start my scouting in the Chattanooga - Cleveland area.  During the summer months when my daughter is out of school I can make several trips down there.
> ...



I will probably drive on up to Knoxville and I'm not looking for employment since I retired in December of 2000.

Jerry


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## sm4him (Feb 13, 2012)

So...any other thoughts on the photos? I seem to have derailed my own thread, but I *do* love to talk about my beautiful East Tennessee!


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## cgipson1 (Feb 13, 2012)

sm4him said:


> So...any other thoughts on the photos? I seem to have derailed my own thread, but I *do* love to talk about my beautiful East Tennessee!



I will be interested to see your results after you stop down a bit!


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## Joel_W (Feb 14, 2012)

I've also had very little success with bird photography, other then geese, ducks, & Seagulls. Those little fellers are harder then heck to get close enough to for a decent shot without having to crop the heck out of the picture.  Then one day I was out concentrating on fall foliage, and this little guy just lands right next to me. Go figure. 




DSCN1162 by jaw101, on Flickr


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## sm4him (Feb 14, 2012)

Joel_W said:


> I've also had very little success with bird photography, other then geese, ducks, & Seagulls. Those little fellers are harder then heck to get close enough to for a decent shot without having to crop the heck out of the picture.  Then one day I was out concentrating on fall foliage, and this little guy just lands right next to me. Go figure.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nicely done!


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## sm4him (Feb 14, 2012)

cgipson1 said:


> sm4him said:
> 
> 
> > So...any other thoughts on the photos? I seem to have derailed my own thread, but I *do* love to talk about my beautiful East Tennessee!
> ...



I was SOO looking forward to getting out this morning and having another go at it...but the 33 degree (F) rain/sleet mix had most of the birds off hiding. I actually stood out there in the sleet/rain for about 10 minutes, but I had to keep the camera under my coat, and what very few birds I saw close enough to try to shoot, flew off by the time I could lift the camera up to my eye.  After a few minutes, I was too cold and wet to care anymore.

Tomorrow is supposed to be pretty decent, so I'm determined to go bird-hunting in the morning and shoot something. In the meantime, I've been practicing on some uninteresting, inanimate objects in similar light conditions to get a feel for how far to stop down.  I'm thinking f/8 looks to be about where I want to try.


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## Thunder_o_b (Feb 14, 2012)

A good solid effort. Do you have a hot shoe mount flash? If so I highly recommend that you pick up one of these Visual Echoes FX2 Better Beamer for Canon 550EX, Nikon FX2 B&H But you can only use it at 300mm and up. I have had good resualts with mine.

EDIT: I never shoot birds with the tel zoom (never say never) wider than f/8.


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## sm4him (Feb 18, 2012)

UPDATED EFFORTS:

Okay, so I've gone out a couple of different times now, working on some things that were suggested.  Here's what I feel are the best four of the results. These were mostly concentrating on the sharpness issue, and I think that's improved, although I still have a ways to go.  More of the efforts are on my flickr photostream; feel free to check them out if you want, but they are mostly mediocre to bad.

Okay, the new attempts:

Cardinal. f/8, 1/400 sec., ISO 1000, 300mm



cardinal_0384 by sm4him, on Flickr

Downy Woodpecker: f/7.1, 1/500 sec., ISO 1600, 260mm



downywoodpecker_0573 by sm4him, on Flickr

Robin: f/8, 1/400 sec., ISO 800, EV +4/3, 300mm



robin_0867 by sm4him, on Flickr

Sparrow: f/7.1, 1/1600 sec (OOPS), ISO 1600 (oops again), 300mm



sparrow_0789 by sm4him, on Flickr

I think the robin and sparrow came out the best so far.  Should have used exposure compensation on many of these instead of bumping the ISO up; I'll work on that.  Some still seem underexposed, but the sharpness is a BIT better than the previous efforts, I think.

Also, a note on the EXIF data for the sparrow: That was a complete FAIL, and I'm surprised the photo came out as well as it did. I'd gotten sidetracked by trying to catch some of them in flight (an exhausting endeavor!), and so I'd bumped the shutter speed way up (and again, bumped the ISO to compensate instead of exposure compensation).  Then this little guy decided to basically land right next to me, and I completely forgot what my settings were. Still, I was pleased with the detail in it.

Alright...opinions? Are they an improvement at all? Other than using exposure compensation, what am I still missing?


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## sm4him (Feb 18, 2012)

Oh, I also didn't mention...I finally got a flash yesterday! So now, I'll have to figure out how to use it effectively. I've been experimenting with it today. Mostly nothing worth posting. I did go out this afternoon and use it on a few birds; I think it'll help when/if I figure it out.  I got a couple of decent shots of a nuthatcher at my feeder, then got obsessed with getting a decent shot of the woodpecker who continues to taunt me. He gets just close enough for me to see him, but not close enough for a decent shot. Plus, he's very skittish, so as soon as I even go to move the camera, he scoots around the other side of the tree.

Then, as I was getting ready to go inside, he showed up at the feeder, and stayed there even when I moved a bit.  I'd already turned off the camera and the flash, but got them both back on and he didn't fly off.  Unfortunately, I'd already lost almost ALL light from the sky, and didn't use the flash right, I guess, as the photos were underexposed.

Here's the best of the results:


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## Thunder_o_b (Feb 19, 2012)

Your shots are improving quickly :thumbup:

With the flash you may want to shoot manually, using the flash to lighten the shadows, done right you can not tell that a flash is used, and you get the catch light in the subject's eyes.

Now, this is not a bird. But it could have been. I chose to post this shot to illustrate the benefit of the flash and the danger. The subject was above me about 15' to 20' away. The time of day was around noon, the sun was very bright which gave good light through the leaves. The subject however was in shadow. If I exposed for the subject the BG would have been blown out, so I used a fill flash with the better beamer. The lens was set at 400mm the f/stop I believe was f/8 and I stopped the flash down one full f/stop (I think). The photo was also cropped slightly. I feel that the lighting came out well in the shot. But here is the danger of using a flash, look at the shadow of the branch that crosses the subject's ear, it ruins the shot. You must be mindful of this while using a flash.


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## sm4him (Feb 19, 2012)

Thunder_o_b said:


> Your shots are improving quickly :thumbup:
> 
> With the flash you may want to shoot manually, using the flash to lighten the shadows, done right you can not tell that a flash is used, and you get the catch light in the subject's eyes.
> 
> Now, this is not a bird. But it could have been. I chose to post this shot to illustrate the benefit of the flash and the danger. The subject was above me about 15' to 20' away. The time of day was around noon, the sun was very bright which gave good light through the leaves. The subject however was in shadow. If I exposed for the subject the BG would have been blown out, so I used a fill flash with the better beamer. The lens was set at 400mm the f/stop I believe was f/8 and I stopped the flash down one full f/stop (I think). The photo was also cropped slightly. I feel that the lighting came out well in the shot. But here is the danger of using a flash, look at the shadow of the branch that crosses the subject's ear, it ruins the shot. You must be mindful of this while using a flash.



Thanks for the encouragement! I will be shooting manually (as I usually do anyway), but so far I'm finding it a little challenging to figure out how to place the flash when it's off-camera.  I'll be doing some more experimenting with it indoors under a more controlled environment to figure out the angles and power level and all that. It's harder to practice on something that scurries away faster than you can shoot anyway!


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