# New Business Card, Give me your input



## eric-holmes (May 1, 2010)

This would be an example of the front of the card. Possibly with rounded corners. The back would simply state my phone number, email and website. Opinions.


----------



## cnutco (May 1, 2010)

I like #2 the best.  I think the black will stand out the most.  

Have you priced two sided cards with multiple colors?


----------



## eric-holmes (May 1, 2010)

You can put pictures, color, whatever you want. Single or double sided is the same price.

$20/100
$22.50/100 with rounded corners. 

Is that a decent deal?


----------



## pbelarge (May 1, 2010)

I like #2


Is the price an ongoing price or the price for setup and 100 cards.


For setup it is cheap.
For ongoing it is expensive


----------



## eric-holmes (May 1, 2010)

Yes, that is set up and 100 cards. The more boxes you buy, the cheaper you get. 2-5 Boxes is $18. 6-20 Boxes is $16


----------



## pbelarge (May 1, 2010)

It is amazing how much prices have come down over the years. And how many different programs there are for designing and printing one's own card design.


Your signature is nicely done!


----------



## SwissJ (May 1, 2010)

If the back of the card has a white background, I would keep a darker background on the front.  Not black though.  Consider a darker gray.  Is the blue an important color for you?  Cause as it stands, the black and blue is not a great combo IMO.  Maybe a lighter blue accent on the dark gray.  If you want something more hip, then a mustardy yellow accent would be cool too.  All depends on your target market.
Rounded corners are nice.
Please don't use any kind of glossy stock.
I really like the typography, btw.


----------



## KmH (May 1, 2010)

Nice typography!  :thumbup: But on a real card the word "photography" will be tiny.

IMO. Put all your info on the front. Leave the back to write on.


----------



## PerfectlyFlawed (May 1, 2010)

I like #2, with the blue...definitely! Especially with the  black background. The others are too much white..imo.


----------



## eric-holmes (May 1, 2010)

I actually had a guy make this for me. I wasn't too fond of the blue but I do like the design. I like how the solid color will look classic. I am undecided of doing a front and back or front only. The only problem I see with doing a front only is that the font of the contact information will be too small to read. Unless you guys know how to arrange it better. I am thinking of bolding the "photography" so maybe it will show up a little better.


----------



## SwissJ (May 1, 2010)

I don't wanna step on your designer's toes, but if you like I can show a quick edit of what I meant above.  The design is great, but the colors seem all wrong.  The blue coupled with the small typeface of 'photography' will make sure it doesn't get seen, especially against the black.  The high contrst with your name drowns out 'photography' as well.


----------



## eric-holmes (May 1, 2010)

Sure, show me what you mean.


----------



## c.cloudwalker (May 1, 2010)

I have done plenty of designing for a print shop and the first thing to learn when submitting a BC for comment is that there are as many opinions as there are designers. Kind of like photography 

All that to say that SwissJ's opinion is fine even though I totally disagree with it. Black and white and blue works fine and I was going to suggest using a high gloss stock. High gloss black looks great.

Now, if you don't like the blue, just ask your designer to change it. It is your card and you have to like it. I personally would use a fire engine red.

I find what's going on at the end of your name (between the e and s) a bit messy. At the very least, I would get rid of the upper line between the two but I probably would do more.

KmH raises a very good point with the size of photography. Have you looked at a real size print? Is is readable? Small is much more readable than most people think if done right but what worries me in this case is the fact that the blue photography looks thinner than the white one...

One last thing, don't do a double sided card. Some people like to take notes on the back, others (like me) keep their cards in a Rolodex... and there's plenty of room at the bottom for a phone number and url. Just move the rest up a bit and you're good.


Btw, just a thought on number to print. I never get less than 1000. I use BCs a lot. If you get the right printer to do them, they are the cheapest form of advertising. Today, with digital printing, it is actually affordable to do a card like you have. Bleeds on all four sides don't matter. I had one very similar to yours done a few years ago that cost me about $70 for the 1000. That's a lot cheaper than what you are talking about.


----------



## SwissJ (May 1, 2010)

eric-holmes said:


> Sure, show me what you mean.


It's rough, the text is unintentionally uneven and thick, and the colors can be tweaked whichever way (except black and blue :mrgreen, but you get the idea...


----------



## eric-holmes (May 1, 2010)

I don't know how I feel about the yellow. I do like the dark grey background. But how would I fit my contact info on the front instead of putting it on the back?


----------



## SwissJ (May 1, 2010)

eric-holmes said:


> I don't know how I feel about the yellow. I do like the dark grey background. But how would I fit my contact info on the front instead of putting it on the back?


The yellow could be replaced with anything you like, provided it's not too dark.  I just wanted to open you up to a host of other color possibilities.

Contact info?  Not really sure.  There are many options, and your designer should have some ideas for you.


----------



## AnneRiceBowl (May 1, 2010)

Fitting your contact info on the BC is very do-able. Just push what you have already a few pixels to the upper-right corner which will give you more than enough room to add your contact info and your web address while leaving breathing room for your name and the word "photography".

Like c.cloudwalker, I have also made many BCs--and other designs as well.


----------



## KmH (May 1, 2010)

eric-holmes said:


> But how would I fit my contact info on the front instead of putting it on the back?


Move Eric Holmes photography up the card and put your contact info underneath.

If you need to, reduce the size of your name a little so it all fits nicely. Just remember they can't cut bisuness cards real accurately so you have to leave some wiggly room: http://www.overnightprints.com/main.php?A=specs_guidelines

+2 on a glossy front for the card, +2 for ordering 1000 at a time and they don't do you any good in the box. You have to hand them out for them to do you any good.

www.overnightprints.com has about the thickest stock available, great prices, and quick delivery. The thick stock really conveys a high quality feel to their cards.

I hope your friend did the design using a vector graphic package.

You also need to be aware, any printer will print the cards using CMYK, another consideration for your designer.


----------



## eric-holmes (May 1, 2010)

I don't know if he used a vector graphic package, nor do I know what that is LOL. What would it matter that the printer uses a CMYK printer? I'm sorry I don't know much about his process. I found a free help site that helps toss around different logos for people and a guy came up with this one for me and he emailed me the .png file.


----------



## SwissJ (May 1, 2010)

Vector graphics connect points with continuous lines instead of pixels.  Because vectors are generated mathematically instead of little dots, they can be infinitely scaled without losing quality.

CMYK (Cyan, Magenta, Yellow, Black) is the "color space" used by printers.  If your file is RGB, then the printer will have to re-interpret the RGB colors using CMYK colors, and your colors will not come out exactly as you intended.  They will be off.  All graphic designers should know this, but you never know i guess.

So do you have to finish the card yourself, or is this guy still gonna help you?


----------



## c.cloudwalker (May 1, 2010)

Vector graphic means you can re-size the logo any way you want and it is very useful when you are going to use it on different things such as envelopes, letterhead, etc which most pros use. Those things are part of your company identity...

CMYK doesn't matter in this case. For an old fashioned printer, who you don't want to deal with in this case, this is a 2 color job. It does not even matter what color they are. The printer can make them whatever you want.

More important is the file, how it is set up, what software it was made in...

But even that doesn't matter much. This is a very simple design and if the printer has to re-create it, it is not that big a deal. But it will cost more.


If it gets printed straight to a digital printer as I suggested earlier and, as it should be, the only things that matter are the type of file and having the fonts' files. When I send a job to a printer the fonts' files are included, no matter what kind of file the design itself is.

The more you know how things work, the easier it gets. Cheers.


----------



## KmH (May 2, 2010)

Overnight prints requires the file be in CMYK but can handle both vector and raster graphics.

Adobe Photoshop, and other image editors is/are a raster graphics programs. Adobe Illustrator, and others is/are vector graphics programs.

How about giving back some for all the help you're getting here at TPF and sharing the link with the rest of TPF to the, "free help site that helps toss around different logos for people".


----------



## eric-holmes (May 2, 2010)

KmH said:


> How about giving back some for all the help you're getting here at TPF and sharing the link with the rest of TPF to the, "free help site that helps toss around different logos for people".



Of course! I didn't even think about that. The site is Free website templates and there is a forum named "Request Logo Customization". My thread is located here... Modern Photographer Logo Request - Free website templates

I honestly don't know what color standard he used but I bet he used a vector graphic. I can zoom in completely and it appears smooth. I can also resize it however I want and it also appears smooth then. I plan to keep the color real simple as I think it looks most professional so the CYMK shouldnt be much of a problem.


----------



## SwissJ (May 2, 2010)

eric-holmes said:


> The site is Free website templates and there is a forum named "Request Logo Customization". My thread is located here... Modern Photographer Logo Request - Free website templates


I just followed the 2nd link.  You don't like the 1st version he posted?  You didn't show that one to us... the gray and blue on white.  That's my favorite out of all of them.


----------



## eric-holmes (May 2, 2010)

I honestly forgot about that edit because I don't really like colors. Black and white always attract me first.


----------



## KmH (May 2, 2010)

eric-holmes said:


> I honestly forgot about that edit because I don't really like colors. Black and white always attract me first.


A logo is not about what appeals to *YOU*.

A logo is entirely about what will _appeal and be_ _easily memorable to the buying public_ which is what good logo designers are striving for.


----------



## SwissJ (May 2, 2010)

eric-holmes said:


> I don't really like colors. Black and white always attract me first.


I would encourage you to go back and look at the logo examples you cited as being designs you really liked.  None of the 4 you gave were just black and white.  They all had a light, neutral, airy feel with color.  Also, to paraphrase your answer on the other forum... "lighter neutral colors would be more appealing to moms and kids."

Black and white is anything but light and neutral.  Maybe conduct a marketing survey of your target audience regarding colors in general.  My gut tells me that black won't come out on top.


----------



## eric-holmes (May 2, 2010)

KmH said:


> eric-holmes said:
> 
> 
> > I honestly forgot about that edit because I don't really like colors. Black and white always attract me first.
> ...



Very good point! So did you check out that website?


----------



## eric-holmes (May 2, 2010)

So what does everyone think of this one?


----------



## deggimatt (May 2, 2010)

Its not about the card design, Its about how you present the card to your customers. Ps: The 2nd design is the most eye-catching.

I have cards too and what I do is that I go to night clubs find people and I ask them if they want to take a photo. After, I take there names and I give them my card with telephone number etc.. I tell them if they want the photo just call me and I will will send it to you. I usually put a watermark and if they will not want the watermark they need to pay.


----------



## eric-holmes (May 3, 2010)

Bump for the above logo color combo


----------



## seekcreative (May 5, 2010)

Eric,
I am a graphic designer by career and love, but just now getting into the photography side of the business. I belong to another forum - graphicdesignforum.com that you could get some real good feedback from them, but be forewarned, bring your thick skin.

IMO it needs work, but I don't think you would be bashed by the average photographer seeking person. The thin lines are extremely hard to reproduce because they look to be only a pixel or two wide in some areas. Reduced down to business card size, the logo will lose some of it's character. I feel you would be much better served using a bold, simple, modern font and make it clean. Without the use of an icon/graphic (which is NOT a bad thing) your typography has to hold weight, communicate well and be easily identified.

As far as the print goes, I offer printing services and NO I am not soliciting my services. However, I charge my clients for 1000 cards, full color front and back, with UV coating or matte options available on 14 or 16 pt stock - $110 including shipping. Rounded corners are also an option as well as printing silver and/or on linen stock.

Anyway, hope this helps.


----------



## eric-holmes (May 5, 2010)

Would you have any design ideas you could throw my way?


----------



## gigiphotography (May 5, 2010)

I like the all black you don't see that much and it makes your logo stand out!  I don't care for the blue.  I'm using grey and yellow as my logo I think whenever I get it figured out.


----------



## seekcreative (May 5, 2010)

seekcreative said:


> I feel you would be much better served using a bold, simple, modern font and make it clean. Without the use of an icon/graphic (which is NOT a bad thing) your typography has to hold weight, communicate well and be easily identified.



I kinda thought I did 

I would stay away from any kind of thin font, although it may look "cool" and classy, it often gets pretty difficult to read on small versions, especially when/if translated to the web. Now I am not suggesting thick wide bodied font either, just be aware that legibility is just as important as readability when it comes to design.


----------



## eric-holmes (May 5, 2010)

Well I meant, maybe a professional designer like yourself could help me come up with a design that would incorperate the ideas you mentioned. Feel free to PM me


----------



## Marissa Foto (May 5, 2010)

I like the design but there are some fonts I feel should be retired: Comic Sans, Papyrus, and Scriptina. I see so many people (photographers especially) use Scriptina and Papyrus, and it lacks originality and creativity.


----------



## eric-holmes (May 6, 2010)

SwissJ said:


> eric-holmes said:
> 
> 
> > Sure, show me what you mean.
> ...



Here is my take on this and I must say, It is growing on me.


----------



## AnneRiceBowl (May 6, 2010)

Marissa Foto said:


> I like the design but there are some fonts I feel should be retired: Comic Sans, Papyrus, and Scriptina. I see so many people (photographers especially) use Scriptina and Papyrus, and it lacks originality and creativity.




I 100% agree! Also, Curlz should be banned in all countries, including Antarctica.


----------



## seekcreative (May 6, 2010)

Marissa Foto said:


> I like the design but there are some fonts I feel should be retired: Comic Sans, Papyrus, and Scriptina. I see so many people (photographers especially) use Scriptina and Papyrus, and it lacks originality and creativity.



As we say on the other forum I belong to, when someone uses Comic Sans (or Papyrus) God kills a kitten. Now WHO would want to kill a kitten? 

Please delete comic sans and papyrus from your memory bank


----------



## AnneRiceBowl (May 6, 2010)

seekcreative said:


> Marissa Foto said:
> 
> 
> > I like the design but there are some fonts I feel should be retired: Comic Sans, Papyrus, and Scriptina. I see so many people (photographers especially) use Scriptina and Papyrus, and it lacks originality and creativity.
> ...




If that is true, then James Cameron killed millions with the movie "Avatar".


----------



## seekcreative (May 6, 2010)

eric-holmes said:


> SwissJ said:
> 
> 
> > eric-holmes said:
> ...



I'll mention this again. Your uneven and places of thin line are going to be very hard to reproduce at the size of a business card. And when you decide to put this on the web, it's going to be even far more reduced in size and quality and therefore lose a lot of the fine detail.

What are you trying to SAY about yourself with the logo? What does the little piece of "flair" under your name suppose to mean/represent? Is it there just to make it look pretty/cool or is there a real meaning to it? I gave my advice about heading to a resource and looking at logos in the "best of" books at your local book store and it's solid advice. I never work with the computer first, I always go to my sketch pad to get out ALL of my ideas, even the bad ones, on paper. That way I can identify what works, what doesn't and what direction I want to pursue. 

Don't settle for your logo just because you think it looks cool or don't want to spend the time on it. That's my professional 2 cents and hope you take something  away from it.


----------



## seekcreative (May 6, 2010)

AnneRiceBowl said:


> seekcreative said:
> 
> 
> > Marissa Foto said:
> ...



Maybe he was hoping to lol...as soon as I saw the marketing material for it I laughed and shook my head. My fellow designers and I were stunned...


----------



## eric-holmes (May 6, 2010)

seekcreative said:


> I'll mention this again. Your uneven and places of thin line are going to be very hard to reproduce at the size of a business card. And when you decide to put this on the web, it's going to be even far more reduced in size and quality and therefore lose a lot of the fine detail.
> 
> What are you trying to SAY about yourself with the logo? What does the little piece of "flair" under your name suppose to mean/represent? Is it there just to make it look pretty/cool or is there a real meaning to it? I gave my advice about heading to a resource and looking at logos in the "best of" books at your local book store and it's solid advice. I never work with the computer first, I always go to my sketch pad to get out ALL of my ideas, even the bad ones, on paper. That way I can identify what works, what doesn't and what direction I want to pursue.
> 
> Don't settle for your logo just because you think it looks cool or don't want to spend the time on it. That's my professional 2 cents and hope you take something  away from it.



I don't understand what you mean when you say that I will lose fine detail on the web when I have it posted on the web and it looks the same. The little flair at the bottom? Well I just like it. It doesn't say anything about me. But neither does a lot of the logos I see and like. Most logos I see are usually just simply their name. I just thought the flair added to it.


----------



## seekcreative (May 6, 2010)

eric-holmes said:


> Well I just like it. It doesn't say anything about me. But neither does a lot of the logos I see and like. Most logos I see are usually just simply their name. I just thought the flair added to it.



Well, just because you like it doesn't mean it should be used. The statement "It doesn't say anything about me" is a HUGE red flag when it comes to a logo. Your logo is suppose to say something about you. That's your image, that's what people are going to see first and most about you. Your logo better say something about you, or else, why even bother saying anything? It's just static.

"Most logos I see are usually simply their name" while that might be true, that doesn't mean they are bad logos. If their logo is simply their name, the way the logo is done speaks of what they are, what they do etc. Flair is clutter in MHO as well as other designers. To add a piece of flair just for the sake of doing it, doesn't make a lot of sense design wise. I am not sure if you have taken any of my suggestions in actually looking at GOOD logo designs. Just because you find a logo on the internet or wherever, doesn't make it a good design piece.

When you think about taking a photograph, you think about composition, lighting, filters, technical aspects of it all...graphic design for a logo is no different. You dont just throw a stone or rock into an image just because you think it looks cool. It's there for a reason. If you want me to continue, I can, if you would rather go down the road on your own without professional advice, that's quite fine too. It will save me from beating my head against the proverbial wall...


----------



## Marissa Foto (May 6, 2010)

AnneRiceBowl said:


> seekcreative said:
> 
> 
> > Marissa Foto said:
> ...


Yeah, spend millions making a supposedly remarkable film (I've yet to see it) then use... Papyrus? Spend a little extra money and commission a font!


----------



## eric-holmes (May 6, 2010)

seekcreative said:


> "Most logos I see are usually simply their name" while that might be true, that doesn't mean they are bad logos. If their logo is simply their name, the way the logo is done speaks of what they are, what they do etc. Flair is clutter in MHO as well as other designers. To add a piece of flair just for the sake of doing it, doesn't make a lot of sense design wise. I am not sure if you have taken any of my suggestions in actually looking at GOOD logo designs. Just because you find a logo on the internet or wherever, doesn't make it a good design piece.



This was my first logo. I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on it. No flair, simple and to the point.


----------



## seekcreative (May 6, 2010)

eric-holmes said:


> seekcreative said:
> 
> 
> > "Most logos I see are usually simply their name" while that might be true, that doesn't mean they are bad logos. If their logo is simply their name, the way the logo is done speaks of what they are, what they do etc. Flair is clutter in MHO as well as other designers. To add a piece of flair just for the sake of doing it, doesn't make a lot of sense design wise. I am not sure if you have taken any of my suggestions in actually looking at GOOD logo designs. Just because you find a logo on the internet or wherever, doesn't make it a good design piece.
> ...




Well, it is simpler and bold, but it's skewed and stretched making it difficult to read. This doesn't really say anything about you, but it's at least legible at any size. 

Just TRY this without questioning....

Take a similar font, san serif font, do not alter it, but use a BOLD or HEAVY version of it, just using your name. Then take the word "photography" and make it much smaller, maybe right aligned, and use the SAME font face but use a regular or light version. Also, keep it strictly black and white only. As I say in the courses I teach...if it works in black and white, it will work in color. If you jump right to color you never know if it will.

I will post a visual example...


----------



## seekcreative (May 6, 2010)




----------



## eric-holmes (May 6, 2010)

See, I really like that example you posted. I'll use that as a visual example for sure. I like the second one a lot.


----------



## seekcreative (May 6, 2010)

its not perfect by any means, but it's legible, easy to read, simple...and because it's lower case, it looks trendy and feels creative, even though it's really not. It says more about me than a funky squiggly line of "flair"

Plus, you only have 12 pieces of flair. 12 is the minimum amount of flair....

sorry, had to drop an office space line...


----------



## eric-holmes (May 6, 2010)

Would you mind sharing what font that is? So I noticed you said that the logo is about you. Are you Mark? Lol just curious


----------



## seekcreative (May 6, 2010)

I would share the font...but i feel like I would be doing your work for you  I'm a nice guy and all, but I wouldn't be doing you any favors by doing it for you. Get in there and look around at fonts, you might find one you like even more.

Yes, that's my real name, so it says a lot about me haha.


----------



## AnneRiceBowl (May 6, 2010)

seekcreative said:


>



As much as I like this, I don't like that the word "mark" and "photography" create the beginnings of a river. That's almost the only thing I see on this logo...


----------



## seekcreative (May 6, 2010)

AnneRiceBowl said:


> seekcreative said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...



...for example purposes only...as mentioned  It's not mine...just a few minutes to get my idea across visually...


----------



## eric-holmes (May 10, 2010)

One last question and maybe we can put this drawn out thread to rest. When I type a word out on PS and I zoom in or change the color of the background, the edges of the letters seem to be jagged. Is this do the the raster program and would they look smooth if I used a vector program?


----------



## SwissJ (May 10, 2010)

As long as you don't rasterize the text, it will be fine.

Because Photoshop is a pixel based program, it will always display everything with pixels.  Photoshop has some vector tools (text, line etc.), but they won't be processed as vector until you print.

For proof, try printing from your Photoshop file to a PDF, open the PDF, and zoom into the text...  The edges will stay crisp.

Keep in mind that once you convert the text to an image (it's easy to accidentally do this), all bets are off, and the above doesn't apply.


----------



## seekcreative (May 10, 2010)

eric-holmes said:


> One last question and maybe we can put this drawn out thread to rest. When I type a word out on PS and I zoom in or change the color of the background, the edges of the letters seem to be jagged. Is this do the the raster program and would they look smooth if I used a vector program?



No no no no no never ever ever ever EVER use PS for text. It will never be a good thing. I would advise you to do all type work in Illustrator or vector program. Leave PS for backgrounds, textures and your post production.


----------



## seekcreative (May 10, 2010)

I'll post my logo and business card later this evening for visual reference.


----------



## Arch (May 10, 2010)

seekcreative said:


> No no no no no never ever ever ever EVER use PS for text. It will never be a good thing. I would advise you to do all type work in Illustrator or vector program. Leave PS for backgrounds, textures and your post production.



Im sorry but this is a terribly old fashion way of thinking.
I actually was on a graphic design forum last year when i was talking about designing a logo using photoshop.... the abuse i got was unreal, they all thought i was some kind of start up noob... little did they know who i was...

Let me explain... iv been a designer for over 14 years.
Yes i was taught to only use Illustrator for logos and text.
I know ALL the do's and don'ts about graphic design.
I was taught back when photoshop 3 was around, and i have followed software ever since.

However, (this is the but where most designers are in denial) software HAS changed.
Photoshop has been able to cope with vectors since, what.. the first CS?
You can easily upscale logos to any reasonable size, true i still wouldn't recommend it for some business types, especially if a large part of your advertising is going to be of the outdoor large scale type.
But for the majority of businesses this is never going to be an issue.
I have blown up photoshop designed logos for use in exhibitions and never had a problem with it.

I was part of a professional logo company for a few years... i still design logo's today as part of my income.
Some i only use Illustrator, other i use photoshop... true i know what im doing, but seriously, saying 'never use photoshop' is a typical saying that is picked up by designers... from each other... but there really isn't much truth to it anymore.


----------



## seekcreative (May 10, 2010)

Arch said:


> seekcreative said:
> 
> 
> > No no no no no never ever ever ever EVER use PS for text. It will never be a good thing. I would advise you to do all type work in Illustrator or vector program. Leave PS for backgrounds, textures and your post production.
> ...


 
Anyone that would use Photoshop for text, whether they have been a designer for 1 day or 40 years, knows that's not the program to use, period. There isn't a single professional designer that would suggest using PS for a LOGO.

Just because you import a vector file into PS, and that is can "cope" with vector files doesn't mean it's a free license to use text as well. You will not find anyone who will agree with it just being a "saying" or that there isn't truth to it any more, not a designer with any decent amount of education or experience. Type something in PS at say, 8 pt, then make that a billboard, or even a letter head and you tell me what looks better, a bitmap file or a vector file. I don't know what's more alarming, you saying that this has no truth to it anymore, or that you are a designer with all those years of experience practicing in that function. Next thing you're going to tell me is that it's okay to layout a magazine spread in PS too! Maybe we should just eliminate Illustrator all together then....

Software has changed, sure, but the fact is Photoshop is still a PIXEL based program...always has been, always will be. Illustrator is a VECTOR program, that my friend hasn't changed. All programs have a primary function and use. Using them correctly is step 1.

In the words of Chris Rock:
"Yeah you can drive your car with your feet, but that doesn't mean it's a GOOD idea!"

Ditto for PS.


----------



## eric-holmes (May 10, 2010)

SwissJ said:


> As long as you don't rasterize the text, it will be fine.
> 
> Because Photoshop is a pixel based program, it will always display everything with pixels.  Photoshop has some vector tools (text, line etc.), but they won't be processed as vector until you print.
> 
> ...



Ok, I see what you are saying. I typed out a word and even though it looked pixelated in PS, when I saved it as a PDF and viewed it, it was crisp at all magnification.  I guess it only changes it to a vector graphic after the fact.


----------



## seekcreative (May 10, 2010)

Ugh...I give up. To each their own...


----------



## Arch (May 10, 2010)

seekcreative said:


> Anyone that would use Photoshop for text, whether they have been a designer for 1 day or 40 years, knows that's not the program to use, period. There isn't a single professional designer that would suggest using PS for a LOGO.
> 
> Just because you import a vector file into PS, and that is can "cope" with vector files doesn't mean it's a free license to use text as well. You will not find anyone who will agree with it just being a "saying" or that there isn't truth to it any more, not a designer with any decent amount of education or experience. Type something in PS at say, 8 pt, then make that a billboard, or even a letter head and you tell me what looks better, a bitmap file or a vector file. I don't know what's more alarming, you saying that this has no truth to it anymore, or that you are a designer with all those years of experience practicing in that function. Next thing you're going to tell me is that it's okay to layout a magazine spread in PS too! Maybe we should just eliminate Illustrator all together then....
> 
> ...



LOL... yup thats the reaction i got from the design forum... ok then, i will just let you join the other designers that think this way.... you know why its good for me?.. Because the rest of you haven't caught on to what the business world actually needs.
Supply and demand... simple business, and designers just totally underestimate what their software is capable of.

About the Type thing... you try reading up a bit on how to optimize PDF settings... then type something out and save it with those settings.
Zoom in as much as you want... that line isn't going anywhere.

This is a simple case of not understanding how photoshop uses vectors.... period.

What amazes me is the amount of designers that really don't understand the software they are using... they just regurgitate the usual 'Illy is vector'.. 'PS is bitmap'... without actually finding out how to use the products to the best of their capabilities.

Also, think about it.. when is a Photographer going to need a logo bigger than say, an exhibition stand or a vehicle side? Just because 'Nike' can be enlarged the size of a soccer field doesn't mean its of any use to the average business.

Its ok tho... this is nothing personal on you at all, I could write about this all night but lets just agree to disagree.


----------



## seekcreative (May 10, 2010)

Wow... I'm still stunned. I have over 15 years using both programs and know very well the capabilities of my programs. I also know the easiest way to make things work to keep them at their native form for any edits and printing. 

Don't even get me started on smart objects, that's the only time I'd use it but it's still vector.

Maybe all the designers in the world are flat out wrong and you aren't...however I doubt that.


----------



## Arch (May 10, 2010)

seekcreative said:


> Don't even get me started on smart objects, that's the only time I'd use it but it's still vector.



Yes they are vector, and they can be output to still retain the edge data.... kind of my point, but also not, because...

Some business, like for example a software company or film company, use bitmapped logos... you haven't seen that before?

I understand we disagree with each other, but please don't insult my intelligence by saying im the only designer to do this... you just don't understand what im getting at.

Its not even a matter of right or wrong.
I worked as a logo ONLY company for 3 years... i have had every logo request under the sun and i know exactly how to provide it.


----------



## seekcreative (May 10, 2010)

Just because you can doesn't mean you should. That's the point I'm making. PS was/is not made for logo or text work...that's common knowledge. You are already using a pompous tone that suggests you know so much more than "other designers" when you're logic is wrong and misguided. My claim is illustrator is BETTER for logo/text work and yours is to tell me I am uneducated in the tools I use. You're are way off base, I merely use them the way they were intended and designed to be used. 

But again, argue all you want, however we all have our own ways of doing things.


----------



## Arch (May 10, 2010)

My logic is neither wrong or misguided, but im not going to sit here all night and write about how software programmes can provide results for different logo requirements.

So hey, no hard feelings, all the best to you.


----------

