# Website Opinions



## Johnboy2978 (Oct 5, 2006)

Hello all.  I've been around here for some time now and have thoroughly enjoyed and appreciated the advice and tips that I have received here.  I feel that I produce better work as a result of this forum.  

I am starting to kick around the idea of trying to make some bucks from my hobby.  As a result, I thought it would be appropriate to create a web site so that prospective clients may get an idea of what I can offer.  Thanks to the generosity of Ben/Magicmonkey and his gratuitious offer of free webspace, I developed this simple site for this purpose.  

I have never created a site before, with the exception of very minor tinkering with posting an album with Angelfire.com, so this isn't very flashy or high tech.  

Just wondered if any of you would mind taking the time to take a look and see what you thought.  
Thanks for taking the time to check it out:
http://countsphotography.poijoy.com/


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## skyonfire (Oct 5, 2006)

Hey the site looks good but I did notice that a couple of the links are covering the pictures.. you may want to go back and fix that..


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## Inverness Photographic (Oct 5, 2006)

Hi John,

Firstly I am no expert...

The links are out of alignment and cover some of the pictures.

If you are going to sell these images then...

---There is Nowhere to buy.

---The images in the Galleries are ~100K okay but you give an option to download the images at ~250K so giving them away.

---The site is not secure, notice you are using JALBUM look at the options and disable "right-click" and the download.

---Need a pricing structure and the ability to pay...PayPal???

Do like the about page it is great and the links page too.

Hope this helps, I know it is hard to get some honest help as I have been there.

All the best


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## KevinR (Oct 5, 2006)

As they already have said. Alingment problems. One thing I would do is get rid of the Technical info. Just don't think it needs to be there.


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## Johnboy2978 (Oct 5, 2006)

Are the links out of alignment when you maximize the screen?  I noticed that when you view the full screen (at least on my end) everything lines up how I had it, but if the screen size is less than full size, it is jumbled around and I don't know how to fix that.  

John, I wasn't really setting this up as a print selling site.  Primarily just for a site that potential clients could go to and see some of my work and then decide if they want me to do work for them.  I am not particulary concerned with people right clicking and copying as a determined person will find a way around anything anyway.  Is there an option in JAlbum to disable this?  I didn't see it, but could've missed it.  

Kevin: what technical info, the exif that is displayed through JAlbum?

Thanks for looking folks!


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## KevinR (Oct 5, 2006)

Even maximized the alignment is still off for me.

Under each image, it tells me camera, shutter speed, resolution, etc. If it is potential clients, I feel you don't want to draw attention from the image with that info.


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## Johnboy2978 (Oct 5, 2006)

Edit: The upload is complete and everything seems to work.  I disabled right click and download of the higher res enlarged pics.  You can still r-click and save the small icon like images, but I really don't care about that.  

Not sure about the alignment issue.  I did those pages in word and it looks fine when I view it.  Would that have something to do with screen resolution, and is there a way to make it automatically adjust?


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## newrmdmike (Oct 5, 2006)

because of the image on your front page i don't think your going to get a good response from potential clients.  In fact, I almost didn't even look at the rest of the site.  I think that putting somthing more attractive on the front would help you out a bunch.


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## Big Mike (Oct 5, 2006)

Yes, the gallery is quite nice but the front page and the main page need some work...and of course the position of the links needs to be fixed.

If you are serious about attracting business with your web site, consider paying someone to do it for you.


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## Johnboy2978 (Oct 5, 2006)

Well, I've uploaded this album about a dozen times now.  But alas, I have fixed the ability to download and I just deleted the gallery page altogether.  I originally had the default index page provided by JAlbum, but I wanted some small icons for each section and the version of Jalbum I had either didn't have an option for that or I couldn't find it.  I got the update, and viola, it can do it.  Soooo that issue is fixed.  

So you guys don't like the homepage either?  That was a favorite image of mine, but I realize it might not be a favorite of others.  Anyway, I appreciate the comments and suggestions.  I'll look through some of my stuff and see what else I can find.  Again, right now at least, this isn't meant to be an e-commerce sight per se.


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## Big Mike (Oct 5, 2006)

I love the image one the front page...It's just that...that's all there was.  A photo and some out of place links.  It need a theme or design.


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## Johnboy2978 (Oct 6, 2006)

You guys mind taking another look?  

I added a flash intro.  This is something that I wanted to do initially, but then decided against it, b/c I figured these days, everyone has their browser automatically set to block just about everything.  Therefore, I went for a simpler approach.

I'd appreciate some follow up feedback when you have the time.
Thanks all.


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## Big Mike (Oct 6, 2006)

I like the flash intro...but the images look pixelated.  I'm sure they are downsized for quick loading but they don't look as good as they could.  Or it may be that the images are linked to the size of the browser window...which messes with the size and causes pixelation.  If you can lock the size and make it sharper...that would really help.

I'm not digging the plain white background on the front page or the main page.  It feels like it needs a background color with borders and stuff like that.

The images are great, that's what's important...but proper presentation will really help.


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## Johnboy2978 (Oct 6, 2006)

Yeah Mike, the flash pics are somewhat pixelated which is from trying to scale down the size and keep it loading quicker. It's kind of a trade off I guess.  I'll keep looking at it.


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## Inverness Photographic (Oct 6, 2006)

The Flash file does take sometime to load but it is a good intro.

What did you use to write the homepage the one after the intro...

Looked at it but I could only open it in "Word" I use Front Page.

Do you set your page out in a table if not it maybe the reason things look different and the links are messed up. Try a table layout 2 Cols x 6 Rows, set the table to float in the centre, merge all your left hand cols for the picture and put the links in the right hand side.

John


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## Johnboy2978 (Oct 6, 2006)

Hey John, thanks for the input.  Yeah, I used Word.  Didn't even think of Frontpage but I think I have that as well on my pc.  And no, I didn't consider a table.  I might give that a try.  That's the one thing I really hate about computers, is that you can make something run perfect on the machine you are on, then it runs completely different on another. 

Is the flash intro taking an inordinate amount of time?  Also does it give you warning about active x controls and such when you first bring up the site?


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## zedin (Oct 6, 2006)

For me at least after you click enter and go to http://countsphotography.poijoy.com/Home.mht all I get is the raw source text.  Not sure if others are getting this as well but it happened with firefox on a mac.


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## Inverness Photographic (Oct 6, 2006)

No I get no warnings but it is more than 10 seconds before anything appears. Know it doesn't sound a lot but most of your visitors will have left by then. Can you display an message to say "Into Loading" with one of those count thingys and an option to skip to "Home Page".


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## Inverness Photographic (Oct 6, 2006)

Oh another one why save it as .mht, I have never heard of that before that may cause some issues. Save as .htm or .html.


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## Johnboy2978 (Oct 6, 2006)

John, I did those pages in Word and save them as a single web page file, primarily b/c this is the first time I've ever played around with trying to make a site and have been doing it trial and error.  By doing it as a single page file, I didn't have to worry about where I needed to put all those other image files, etc. to make it work.


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## niccig (Oct 6, 2006)

zedin, I got the same result when trying to enter the page(after the main page).  This was the message:

This document is a Single File Web Page, also known as a Web Archive file.  If you are seeing this message, your browser or editor doesn't support Web Archive files.  Please download a browser that supports Web Archive, such as Microsoft Internet Explorer.

I am also using firefox on mac.  Unfortunately I don't think IE is available for mac anymore.  I also agree the images in the flash intro are really pixelated.  Are they being resized automatically by some program, or did you create new versions of the image (resized in photoshop/gimp to be the appropriate size)?  When I let jalbum resize my images, they looked like crap, but were much better when I made a low-res duplicate.


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## Johnboy2978 (Oct 6, 2006)

Well I guess I created something that is only available for windows OS systems with IE then.  Looks like there are quite a few variables involved in making something universal.  Initially the flash pics looked a little pixelated for some shots when I viewed it, then I re did some of them and that looked passable on my machine.  I don't know.


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## Johnboy2978 (Oct 9, 2006)

Ok, last time...I just converted everything to .html instead of the .mht stuff from MS word.  Can you guys take ooooooone more look and see what you think.

I'm going to add one more thing which is an option for dialup/slow connection v. broadband.  For now though, 
broadband ->  http://www.countsphotography.poijoy.com/
dialup/slow -> http://www.countsphotography.poijoy.com/Homepage.htm

Thanks guys.  Hopefully this will straighten out my issues with my links being all over the place as well as the firefox users not being able to access it.


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## PhotoAddict (Oct 19, 2006)

Hi, Johnboy2978. I'm new to this forum but saw your thread and thought I could give you a good idea.

A couple of weeks ago I visited the DEMO Conference and saw a very interesting demonstration of a website tool called SiteKreator - may see it here http://www.demo.com/demonstrators/demo2006fall/79964.php. This builder is generally a combination of a web hosting platform and website tool (which is very very beginner-friendly, I tell you). I gave it a try at their booth and it seemed vey easy, hardly any chance to get something wrong.. I thought I would tell this to everyone in need of a website.

I have once worked with FrontPage, and this thing seems to be way way easier to use. Try it out if you wish - they have free personal accounts (but check if the free offer is still valid).


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## toastydeath (Oct 19, 2006)

Hey.  I've coded (not just html, but php for the database backend and other neat stuff) many webpages.  I hope you'll take some advice on your webpage from a business perspective, and from someone who has done this before with a minor background in it.  Some of this may sound harsh, but please keep your sucess in mind.

I reccomend www.w3schools.com.  Learn HTML and CSS, at the VERY least.  

*Do not use dreamweaver, frontpage, ms word, or any other "visual" editor.*  Professional webpages, the kind that cost 10k a page, are done by hand.  Even if you don't have the background to make a 10k per page website, strive for the same level of professionalism.  Doing it by hand also has the side-effect of keeping unprofessional fru-fru to a minimum.  It's all too easily added in Dreamweaver.  

*A good text editor is necessary*. Not a word processor, like MS Word.  A text editor will autoindent, and help check syntax/missing quotes/missing brackets/ etc.  It will color the various commands differently, so that in large documents, you can easily track what you are working on.  Most editors also have an autocomplete feature to help with repetative commands.  Personally, I use the Vim (www.vim.org) text editor for all my programming, database, and web development.  It is way too much for a beginner (it requires about a month to learn to use it), but I suggest looking around for a text editor that features HTML and CSS as supported languages.  The difference over notepad is almost immeasureable, especially when you start using an editor like Vim or Emacs.  UltraEdit and Editpad are options as well, but I believe they both cost money.  Vim and Emacs are free.

*Lose the flash intro.*  It's not professional, even if it's neat and cool.  Any serious buyers who are looking for someone are reviewing every aspect of your business to evaluate you, including how you represent yourself.  You're dealing with the psychology of design here, in addition to what just looks cool to friends.  Unfortunately, friends do not look at a webpage with the same critical eye high power buyers do.

Second, you need those *section links on a plain menubar* on the right or left, on EVERY SINGLE PAGE.  They need to be able to quickly navagate anywhere on your website, without hitting back.  This is made simpler if you understand some web scripting language like PHP, but it gets complicated.

*Standardize your color scheme with CSS.*  Pick a mild background color, pick a mild menu color.  Also, make your page width about 800 pixels wide, with everything left-aligned.  Having page width set at 100%, center align is not good.  If you add lots of content content or a right menu, you can experement with making your page wider than 800 px.

You want to *drop the link page* - it has nothing to do with you, as a business.  If you want to make it a hobby or personal website, keep the links.  If you're selling something, you don't want them clicking on links.

*Add more sections and content.*  You need to be able to "fill out" the webpage, so that it does not look sparse.  But keep in mind, don't add fluff or random things that will detract from the webpage.  This is the singlemost difficult part of creating a webpage for someone who doesn't have a background in the area.  I suggest adding a "contact" page, instead of just an email link.  I would fill out your bio more, with a heavier emphasis on photography.  A verbal description of your style and what you believe your strengths to be, with selected images to illiustrate your points.  In the gallery, I would choose one picture from a particular set - you have the entire set up.  You don't need a vast gallery of everything you've done, because that's too much information.  You need a selection of images, ready to view in a short thumbnail page, of what you consider to be the best pictures of your best sets.  Below that thumbnail grid, you can add a link to your complete gallery, if you choose.  Think up other sections to add.

I know many professional photographers have websites that break these rules.  Many businesses have websites that break these rules.  They may have hired a web designer who knows what they are doing, and can bend the "rules of design" without detracting from the page itself.  Don't use them as justification to make mistakes.  Just because they're a world-renowed photographer doesn't make them a world-renowed web developer and designer.


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## fmw (Oct 19, 2006)

I agree with toasty except in the area of using Dreamweaver. This saves time and can produce any look you can produce by hand. If not, you can simply make a page with Dreamweaver and then edit it by hand. Coding everything by hand is just unnecessary, time consuming and expensive. I'm a web developer and use it all the time. So do all the web developers I know. The sites have a direct impact on my personal income so I can assure I wouldn't use Dreamweaver if I could make more money doing it some other way.

He mentions that a good text editor is necessary. The most popular one is - you guessed it - Dreamweaver.

I underscore the comment on using Flash. I think it should be banned from the internet. Talk about a waste of resources and peoples' time.

I make my living in e-commerce. I sell products through web sites and have done so for 8 years. Customers are the same as they are in a store - impatient. They come to our sites not to be entertained. They come to shop. In your case they come to evaluate your work. Let them get into the site easily and get to where they want to go easily and get out easily. Make it look attractive and professional. That usually means simple. How efficiently and easily the site works is actually more important than how it looks.

The faster the site runs, the better. I constantly work on speeding up our sites. Don't make the customer wait while a 500K image loads. Reduce the file size. Our product shots are usually 4" wide and 20 to 30 K in size. That's enough to let them know how the product looks. May avatar above is only 6K.  It's pretty small but you can see that I'm posed with a view camera and you get somewhat of an idea of what I look like.  The faster the sites are, the more we sell. The faster your site is, the more of it people will view.

Good luck.


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## Johnboy2978 (Oct 19, 2006)

Hey guys, I really appreciate all these comments and will definately keep them in mind when I make this a business one day.


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## toastydeath (Oct 19, 2006)

For his particular purpose, I can see using a product like Dreamweaver.  And in many places, Dreamweaver/Frontpage are all someone is looking for.

But to restate: I don't know (and I know quite a few, since I have computer science schooling and worked in IT) any high quality, professional web designers and developers who use anything except vim or emacs.  A couple use less common editors - but they all use high power, professional text editors.

Dreamweaver will get you to a certain point, but past that, you hit a wall in terms of ability to express precicely what you want.  In camera terms, it's the difference between the Nikon D70 and D200.  A professional photographer can use both, and get great results.  But they're going to prefer the functionality of the better tool.  So it is with web developers.

Clearly, there is a huge market for Dreamweaver-level results and low learning curve.  They're acceptable.  It gets the job done, with a minimum learning curve.  But it isn't a professional web designer or developer tool, and I don't know anyone who does it for a living who would call it professional.  Espcially since Vim and Emacs are free, and are easily the best tools to do the job.

It's not that you can't do a good, basic HTML/CSS page on Dreamweaver.  It's the rest of that you lose, in scripting languages, fast fine tuning, global server side editing, and all the tactile control over the code you get by using a good text editor.  Fundimentally, HTML is not a visual language.  It's still a markup language - a written one.  Once someone makes the commitment to go to text and truly learn HTML, CSS, and PHP, they don't turn back.  There's no reason to go to back something that gets in the way.


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## Swiss (Nov 18, 2006)

Ok, I haven't read all the comments here (too many), so if I say something, that has already been said, I'm sorry. Few tips I can give you as a graphic designer: Make sure all the pages fit together. Right now, one can't tell, they all belong to the same portfolio as you're using different colors, different fonts and font sizes and different layouts. Also one has to use the back button to get back to the navigation, which is a bit complicated. Would look nicer if you used jpg links instead of underlined text links. And last but not least: Myself, I'm using a wide screen and the text on your website goes from the far left to the far right. It would be better to use a table to keep text in blocks and center the whole table in the middle of the browser window. Few things you can do, even if you're not a pro. Hope that helps.


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