# Rant: Why is it so hard to find a good film camera store?



## dav305z (Jan 5, 2014)

The other day, I drove thirty minutes to the nearest camera store that still sells and develops film. As always, I left with a sour taste in my mouth: the guy behind the counter is surly, the gear they advertise on their website is never in stock, their photo scans marred by scratches and dirt. Every other camera store I've patronized in my area (SE Michigan) and those I've happened upon in other places are pretty much the same. 

My theory is that most of these guys have been around for a long time and have seen much of their business evaporate in the last ten years. That probably stinks. But I also think there's a BIG opportunity for camera shops that recognize the opportunity as new customers enter the world of film and vintage cameras. In much the same way that vinyl records have evolved from garage sale refuse to premium products for audiophiles and aesthetes, I suspect film can and will continue to evolve from a high-volume industry into a high-profit niche. 

As it stands, I wind up giving most of my photography money to KEH, BH, and Amazon, and I usually send out my film to indiefilmlab. This bothers me. I really _want _to support local businesses, and I crave the knowledge of the people who work there. Much of what I've learned in my other hobbiesvinyl records, cars, bicyclesI've learned from oldtimers behind the counters of some of my favorite stores. 

Anyone else share this frustration? Anyone know of exceptions? I'd be willing to drive pretty far for a good customer experience.


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## Robin Usagani (Jan 5, 2014)

No.. There is an awesome store 3 miles away lol.    But I just bought developing kit and a scanner so I can do it and experiment my self.


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## Tiller (Jan 5, 2014)

I feel you man. I just bought developing equipment as well so that's what I suggest.


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## runnah (Jan 5, 2014)

The nearest camera store is over 2 hours away. I haven't been in one in over 10 years.

Hate to say that I am a product of the Internet shopping era.


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## wyogirl (Jan 5, 2014)

We have no camera stores close to me.  I have to drive to Salt Lake City which is I think 200 miles.  And even then, that store kind of sucks with customer service.  They are a little elitist.
So far, the best camera store I've been in, as far as helpful staff, was Mike's Camera in downtown Denver, Co.  But Denver is about 6 hours away from me, so its not like I visit there often.

Amazon, KEH, Adorama and B&H get most of my business.


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## snowbear (Jan 5, 2014)

We've only had a small Ritz nearby, which closed down a year, or so.  DC is the closest to me with "real" camera shops; my usual stop is Calumet (formerly Penn Camera), but there is also Embassy Camera and Pro Photo-DC, neither of which I've been to.


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## gsgary (Jan 5, 2014)

The problem is you live in the wrong country, we have lots of good shops and labs but i develope everything myself


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## Derrel (Jan 5, 2014)

Film camera stores are very difficult to find these days...film as a high-volume, commonplace commodity has disappeared mostly. The old days concept of "printing money" by charging customers $7.99 for 24 prints and $10.99 for 36 color prints out of a minilab line is long gone. Even expensive, quality dip & dunk places have closed down for the most part, and only the biggest, best, and most-savvy businesses survived the thinning of the herd. Digital cameras are simply what the greatest number of people are interested in, so it's very tough to find any place that's really geared to film to the degree that places *used to be*. Sad, really. I realllly miss some of my old camera shop haunts.

Still, there are at least 'some' places that can develop C-41 and E-6 these days, as well as B&W. I'm from the other side of the USA, so my suggestions would make for pretty much a four-day drive time for you. I do hope you can find something in your area. Maybe there's a place in Detroit??? I dunno...


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## webestang64 (Jan 5, 2014)

Try spending your photographic career working in one.
I have worked in camera lab's/store's since 1985. Back then here in St. Louis there were around 30 camera labs and stores. Now, only 2 survive. I work at one and we do support film. The internet, big chain stores and digital photography has killed them all off. I know, I've been there for the closing of a few.


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## limr (Jan 5, 2014)

Sorry, but I lucked out on this one. I live about 20 minutes away from a camera store/lab that has been in business since 1937. They did all my developing until I started doing black and white myself, and they still get my color film. (I do my own scanning.) These guys know what they're doing, too, and my boyfriend and I have established a really good relationship with them. And sorry again, but they're in the metro New York area so they're no good for someone in SE Michigan.

I've never bought equipment from them - they've focused mostly on digital equipment and accessories these days, which I'm sure is why they've stayed in business - but I'll try to buy other things from them because I'd like to do what I can to support their business so they stick around for a long time.

For cameras, I've had good luck haunting a few good 'antique' shops (I'm sure most actual antique dealers would call them 'junk shops') as well as the usual online spots (yes, I've spent my share of money at keh and b&h and Adorama as well.)

Edited: Funnily enough, I just bought two records yesterday. The first vinyl I've bought for myself in probably 20-25 years. The New Zealand pressing of Devo's Greatest Hits (they never did a U.S. one) and Elvis Costello's _Get Happy._


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## Designer (Jan 5, 2014)

Used to be one right here in town, but now the closest one is 45 miles away.  To be sure, lots of them are closed now, which is why I think we should allow them some latitude until we get to know each other.  Try to put yourself in their place: The free-loaders come in, take up about two hours of your time, and then go order from the internet.  It's enough to make someone become downright hostile.


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## webestang64 (Jan 5, 2014)

Designer said:


> Used to be one right here in town, but now the closest one is 45 miles away.  To be sure, lots of them are closed now, which is why I think we should allow them some latitude until we get to know each other.  Try to put yourself in their place: The free-loaders come in, take up about two hours of your time, and then go order from the internet.  It's enough to make someone become downright hostile.



Happens at our store. But, we are known for professionals that live in LA or New York that travel here for our deals/expertise. Plus the store has been open here in St. Louis since 1892. We have grown (stayed in business) in the last 10 years mostly through the AV department. BIG money in "Smart-boards".


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## minicoop1985 (Jan 5, 2014)

Antique stores CAN be good sources for film equipment. Estate/consignment shops are even better-got my Rollei 35 for something like $30-40 at a local. Got a Sigma APO 170-500 lens for Minolta Alpha mount (Maxxum/Sony) for $100 (sold it for $275-was initially for the wife, and she didn't like it much).

I've lucked out here. There's a store locally that tries to stock old film stuff on consignment, but the consignors set the prices. I did get Blad the Impaler (the 1600f) for $300 from them, and the accessories have basically paid him off, but a lot of the consignors have rather terrible ideas of what their stuff is worth-OM-1 MDs for $125? I think... no. They do a great job processing film, but only do it in one batch weekly.


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## MartinCrabtree (Jan 5, 2014)

Freestyle and Photographers Formulary for me. Color goes to The Darkroom.


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## dubiousone (Jan 11, 2014)

I feel your pain!
I live in a fairly large city; I remember when (30-20 years ago) all of my favorite camera haunts; Dinon Photo, Guild Camera, Tempe Camera, Foto Forum, Wilson and a lot more, plus every mall usually had a camera store and I mean lots and lots of cameras, accessories, knowledgeable people behind the counter, film and film processing... a guy could spend HOURS in just one store! (And I did)

Fast forward 30 years; I was out of photography as a hobby a good long while. I just went through my old camera bag and dusted off my Canon A-1 did some maintenance and put a battery in her and she still works like a champ. I found a spare battery in the bag, Duracell with a Montgomery ward price tag of $9.99 and a date of 9/1991 which will tell you how long it's been (for me) I guess even Duracell lithium's wear out; (LOL) a new one at Radio Shack cost $16+tax. My sweet old A-1 now sits in line for her first roll of film in a while but behind the F3, AE-1 and Diacord but I digress.

Today only a few of the above stores are still around; some even remember the 'good old days'. Film is scarce, processing is even more so. Used to be, any old drug store did it; now even Walgreens is taking out their store machines and going with mail order (and you don't get your negatives, you get'em on CD...I-don't-think-so) Walmart still sells film but Fuji Superia is about it. There's only a few local labs, I'm lucky to have a one hour place minutes from my house I'm going to start using but 'my guy' sends his out to a lab, takes a week, two for B&W. The vast majority of places that 'process' only do printing and they look at you like you got two heads when you ask about film. There is always mail order.

I'm lucky to have ONE store that has a selection of decent used gear, DSLR and film. Very good guy, my go-to guy and I'm in there every week. Another store is well stocked with accessories and new DSLR's and they have some used stuff now and then but very far between. Good folks. Another is...snooty. Really big store, lots of inventory, even film stuff but they're way proud of their stuff. And they're the best. Just ask them. But I still go there because they got...stuff! Then there's the other guys; lots of used, no storefront mostly mail order. But they're local so I'd rather spend three bucks in gas and pick it up rather than ten buck shipping. LOTS of used stuff, all they do.

Yeah, it ain't like it used to be; big box has just about ruined the little guy which is why I try REAL hard not to shop there. But....you know how that is. Here's my final word.....mail order. B&H Adorama, KEH and many more all the way to Ebay, there's a TON of stuff out there. Let your fingers do the shopping!


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## RichieT (Jan 11, 2014)

I know what you mean. The smaller places are being replaced by the big box stores and the internet and the services the big box's don't supply aren't enough to support the small stores. Hardware stores are put out by home depot and music stores by sam ash and guitar center. I used to go to the smaller stores and pay a little more because of the better service but you can't even find them anymore. It's a shame.


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## LeeStar (Jan 11, 2014)

Definitely sad, but reality.  Yeah, even though I really can't afford to, I _might _consider patronizing the one camera store close enough to me that overcharges for everything -- but not after I saw the crappy quality of the photo CD I paid too much for.  And only someone who has *no *interest in photography would pay for a CD with no negatives!   I did just find a studio that's under an hour away, that supposedly will develop negatives for only $2.50 a roll.  They advertise one hour service as well.   I'll be calling them on Monday to get the details, as their website wasn't too clear on details.  They are mainly a portrait studio, so they don't sell gear.  They are in Cumming, GA.


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## Newtricks (Jan 11, 2014)

I didn't think it was possible but this both blows and sucks... I live in a suburb of Los Angeles and there's not a decent "film" camera shop within a hours drive. I was looking to buy an Ebony 4x5 last year, once it became clear that film, chemicals and other supplies would all have to be bought online and shipped... I bought a Nikon DSLR.


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## terri (Jan 11, 2014)

Newtricks said:


> I didn't think it was possible but this both blows and sucks... I live in a suburb of Los Angeles and there's not a decent "film" camera shop within a hours drive. I was looking to buy an Ebony 4x5 last year, once it became clear that film, chemicals and other supplies would all have to be bought online and shipped... I bought a Nikon DSLR.



I thought Freestyle was in LA?    On Sunset Blvd someplace.

Edit:   Had to check my memory.   Here you go:  Freestyle!

I know LA is huge, but it still may be worth a trip for you.   I've only dealt with them online but I'm a big fan - never had a problem.


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## minicoop1985 (Jan 11, 2014)

My local camera shop is great for buying film and film cameras-reasonable prices, good service, and a huge selection of used film cameras including a ton of Leicas, Olympii, medium format like Mamiya... hell I even bought my Hasselblad 1600f from them. Developing... yeah. They do a GREAT job, but... They run film in batches based upon when they have enough to run. That being said, after running it, they take their sweet a55 time printing things and scanning them. Took me a lot longer to get film back than they mentioned it would be. There is a lab here in town, but I haven't tried them yet. They're next, I think.


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## Soulz3urn3lack (Jan 17, 2014)

I have to drive a little over an hour for a decent camera shop and I'm not even sure they do much film.  It's sad =(...  Well unless I want walmart or Walgreens to screw my prints up again.


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## Braineack (Jan 17, 2014)

rant: why is so hard for me to make money selling stuff no one uses or produces?


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## gsgary (Jan 17, 2014)

Braineack said:


> rant: why is so hard for me to make money selling stuff no one uses or produces?



Your way behind the times film is making quite a come back

Sent from my GT-I9100P using Tapatalk 2


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## Soulz3urn3lack (Jan 17, 2014)

Braineack said:


> rant: why is so hard for me to make money selling stuff no one uses or produces?





gsgary said:


> Braineack said:
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Agreed with Gary, there's a decent little market for film nowadays.  Maybe not enough to harbor multiple film shops in the same city but enough to keep stores open.


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## gsgary (Jan 17, 2014)

Soulz3urn3lack said:


> Braineack said:
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> > rant: why is so hard for me to make money selling stuff no one uses or produces?
> ...



A Leica,Nikon and Sony dealer i use said their film sales have doubled on last year

Sent from my GT-I9100P using Tapatalk 2


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## Soulz3urn3lack (Jan 17, 2014)

gsgary said:


> Soulz3urn3lack said:
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> > Braineack said:
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That's good to know, I think the digital excitement has started to wane.  Places like impossible project, and lomo have really helped keep it alive and interest focused.  Also some people hate hipsters but I think they play a good role in keeping film alive also.


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## Braineack (Jan 17, 2014)

gsgary said:


> Soulz3urn3lack said:
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yeah yeah, just playing devil's...


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## rexbobcat (Jan 17, 2014)

There is exactly one camera store where I live, and because of that they do everything. They make digital prints, sell and develop film, and also sell equipment. But they've also been here FOREVER without much competition in terms of specialized needs. Sure, people can order online, but a lot of the time they don't know what they need so they go the camera store for advice.

The only thing is the price of convenience. Their lenses/cameras are ridiculously expensive when compared to online options.


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## Soulz3urn3lack (Jan 17, 2014)

rexbobcat said:


> There is exactly one camera store where I live, and because of that they do everything. They make digital prints, sell and develop film, and also sell equipment. But they've also been here FOREVER without much competition in terms of specialized needs. Sure, people can order online, but a lot of the time they don't know what they need so they go the camera store for advice.
> 
> The only thing is the price of convenience. Their lenses/cameras are ridiculously expensive when compared to online options.




I know what you mean, our local camera shop has a high markup on some stuff.  Being a bit Naive I bought a 32gig Sandisk extreme pro (95mbs) and paid almost double what others stores were charging...My mistake for not looking around but still.


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## Pav10566 (Jan 17, 2014)

Well, it will be the first time that I can actually claim that we are better-off in Europe! I have my film rolls developed in the local Supermarket...you can give in film rolls or have your digital memory card pictures printed out. Development of a roll 24 or 36 + 10X15 print by Fuji Print services cost &#8364;4,50 (about $6,10) and there are plenty of shops that sell decent equipment, new and vintage. Of course prices are higher than they are in the USA for modern equipment.


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## vimwiz (Jan 17, 2014)

Pav10566 said:


> Well, it will be the first time that I can actually claim that we are better-off in Europe! I have my film rolls developed in the local Supermarket...you can give in film rolls or have your digital memory card pictures printed out. Development of a roll 24 or 36 + 10X15 print by Fuji Print services cost &#8364;4,50 (about $6,10) and there are plenty of shops that sell decent equipment, new and vintage. Of course prices are higher than they are in the USA for modern equipment.



Same. In the Uk I can get one hour service - digital but decent prints and scan of 36exp C41 colour film for around £5-£7, right on the hugh street.
Dont let them touch your b&w, though!

We have a good camera shot here but its EXPENSIVE. Like something which is £20-60 on ebay is selling for £100-£200 there. they wanted me to pay £180 for a canon 50mm lens in EF............


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## minicoop1985 (Jan 17, 2014)

Here, you can get digital prints made from your memory cards anywhere. It's the film processing for anything other than 35mm that we don't. Walgreens (massive convenience store chain) around here still does a large amount of it, so it isn't going away there. It's anything other than 35mm C-41 film that's a pain in the ever living rear end. Black & white gets shipped by most places. There IS a local lab that does B&W, but you're still looking at a week. Yay.


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## limr (Jan 17, 2014)

rexbobcat said:


> The only thing is the price of convenience. Their lenses/cameras are ridiculously expensive when compared to online options.



I would never buy more expensive equipment from the little camera store/lab that I go to for my color development, it's true. The prices are inflated to a point, and I'm on a budget that doesn't allow me to pay those inflated prices. But for other smaller things, I don't mind paying the convenience premium because I want to support their business as much as I can so they'll stick around!  I'm also luckily in an area that is populated with other people who don't mind paying that premium for the more expensive equipment and repairs. That also helps keep them in business.


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## Josh66 (Jan 17, 2014)

There are probably two main factors working here...

Film, film cameras, chemicals, etc has got to be a pretty slow moving market in most cities.  Brick & Mortar stores have (still) not figured out how to compete with online markets - assuming that is even possible.  That basically guarantees that stores catering to film users will be rare and overpriced, unless you live somewhere like Los Angeles or New York.

I buy Fuji Superia at Wal-Mart sometimes (they usually have Superia 200, 400, and 800 in stock - for a reasonable price too) - but there is NOWHERE to buy "pro" film (or any 120 film at all) locally, and CVS is the only place that even sells B&W film - at TRIPLE the online price.


So, yeah.  Freestyle for me.  When I buy film, I usually buy like 50 rolls at a time, so I rarely "run out" and have to get another roll "right now".


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## dubiousone (Jan 19, 2014)

I feel your pain! I recently 'discovered' Ilford XP-2; its a B&W film that can be processed with C-41. I happen to have a local guy who does this and I found a roll to try.



minicoop1985 said:


> Here, you can get digital prints made from your memory cards anywhere. It's the film processing for anything other than 35mm that we don't. Walgreens (massive convenience store chain) around here still does a large amount of it, so it isn't going away there. It's anything other than 35mm C-41 film that's a pain in the ever living rear end. Black & white gets shipped by most places. There IS a local lab that does B&W, but you're still looking at a week. Yay.


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## gsgary (Jan 19, 2014)

I develope at home but i have one of the best in the country about 10 miles from me Professional Photographic Laboratory Sheffield UK True Photographic Prints from Digital Media Peak Imaging


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## vimwiz (Jan 19, 2014)

dubiousone said:


> I feel your pain! I recently 'discovered' Ilford XP-2; its a B&W film that can be processed with C-41. I happen to have a local guy who does this and I found a roll to try.



Good in theory but *every* pharmacy ive used screws it up and prints it without adjusting the scanner, so the prints are sepia toned.


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## Soulz3urn3lack (Jan 19, 2014)

vimwiz said:


> dubiousone said:
> 
> 
> > I feel your pain! I recently 'discovered' Ilford XP-2; its a B&W film that can be processed with C-41. I happen to have a local guy who does this and I found a roll to try.
> ...



Had that happen to me at walgreens.  Used some nice new Kodak B&W and they printed it in sepia.


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## gsgary (Jan 19, 2014)

Soulz3urn3lack said:


> vimwiz said:
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> > dubiousone said:
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Mine went sepia when i used the pre set for XP2 in veiwscan pro, but i have developed some XP2 in Rodinal and i like the look

Sent from my GT-I9100P using Tapatalk 2


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## table1349 (Jan 20, 2014)

dav305z said:


> The other day, I drove thirty minutes to the nearest camera store that still sells and develops film. As always, I left with a sour taste in my mouth: the guy behind the counter is surly, the gear they advertise on their website is never in stock, their photo scans marred by scratches and dirt. Every other camera store I've patronized in my area (SE Michigan) and those I've happened upon in other places are pretty much the same.
> 
> My theory is that most of these guys have been around for a long time and have seen much of their business evaporate in the last ten years. That probably stinks. But I also think there's a BIG opportunity for camera shops that recognize the opportunity as new customers enter the world of film and vintage cameras. In much the same way that vinyl records have evolved from garage sale refuse to premium products for audiophiles and aesthetes, I suspect film can and will continue to evolve from a high-volume industry into a high-profit niche.
> 
> ...



I believe that you answered your own question.  The markup is low in photography equipment sales, especially used equipment, lower still when you try to compete with KEH, BH and Amazon.  They have been in business for years but over the past few years they have seen their market shrink because their knowledge and service isn't as appreciated as much as the few dollars someone can save buying online.  To top it off a lot of browsers come in, try out potential gear, tap them for knowledge and then go and buy what they want online. 

You want an answer to your question?  Start with why do professional photographers complain about MWC's charging $500 for a wedding. You will quickly find your answer.


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## Rick58 (Jan 20, 2014)

Well, this thread has been stewing for a while so I'll chime in.
Back in the 80's, within a few blocks of each other, there were 3 full fledged camera shops in Reading, Pa. Everything from darkroom supplies to a full array of film, to new and used cameras. Now there are none. Even one of the larger department stores and two mall shops in town carried a full inventory of darkroom supplies, obviously all gone.
I did discover a small shop about 30 miles from here that still carries Chemicals and paper. That's because 2 doors down the street is an art college. They even carry a large supply of Hoga's for your average college student to learn B&W....Really? A Hoga is a learning tool :er: ?


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## dubiousone (Jan 20, 2014)

Not that long ago it seemed every Walgreens/CVS did film processing; now not so many. The one close to my house sends it out AND...you don't get the negatives back! Uh-uh, no way jose! The guy I found is a one hour photo place; maybe the only one in my fair city. Old dude, grumpy and persnickety BUT...he definitely seems to know what he's talking about. I guess I'll see when I get some rolls developed.



vimwiz said:


> dubiousone said:
> 
> 
> > I feel your pain! I recently 'discovered' Ilford XP-2; its a B&W film that can be processed with C-41. I happen to have a local guy who does this and I found a roll to try.
> ...


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## dubiousone (Jan 20, 2014)

LOL, I like your tagline Gryphon; "*I've reached the age where my brain went from "You probably shouldn't say that" to "What the hell, let's see what happens."
*
Couldn't agree more. There's discriminating buyers; those who know what they want and are willing to pay to get it. Then there's the purchaser who appreciates the knowledge base of the people behind the counter and is willing to pay/travel to get that. Then there's your vast majority who, as well intentioned that they may be, listen to the latest advertising hype, shop big box and wouldn't know good advice if it fell from the sky and hit them on the head!

The market is changing; brick and mortar stores are having to change their sales model to compete. There isn't enough of a local market in most cities so online is the way to go to broaden the customer base but this is true in ANY market these days. People shop smarter not harder and stores need to adopt that model too!



gryphonslair99 said:


> dav305z said:
> 
> 
> > The other day, I drove thirty minutes to the nearest camera store that still sells and develops film. As always, I left with a sour taste in my mouth: the guy behind the counter is surly, the gear they advertise on their website is never in stock, their photo scans marred by scratches and dirt. Every other camera store I've patronized in my area (SE Michigan) and those I've happened upon in other places are pretty much the same.
> ...


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## Josh66 (Jan 20, 2014)

dubiousone said:


> The one close to my house sends it out AND...you don't get the negatives back! Uh-uh, no way jose!


Wow, no way I would ever use them!


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## DSRay (Jan 21, 2014)

For the same reason it's tough to find a buggy whip store.


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## table1349 (Jan 21, 2014)

DSRay said:


> For the same reason it's tough to find a buggy whip store.


How many do you want?  We have a large Amish community about 15 minutes away.  I can get you all you need.


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## limr (Jan 21, 2014)

DSRay said:


> For the same reason it's tough to find a buggy whip store.



:roll:


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