# Starting my photography business



## rwilliams (Mar 27, 2014)

I'm just starting my own photography business. I've worked as an assistant photographer, but am pretty clueless on the business aspect of it.  The photographer I worked for never had copyright releases, minor consent forms, etc.. but I've seen several people on photography forums discussing those things. So, exactly what do I need? Do I need every client to sign a contract or is that just for weddings and minors? Also, did you find a copyright release online and use that or did you get a lawyer to draw up a unique copyright specifically for your business?

Thanks for the help!


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## deeky (Mar 28, 2014)

What do you need?  A business degree - seriously.

Assuming you are in the US, find your local Small Business Administration office.  They have a ton of resources to help small businesses get started.  They will help with the business plan, legalities, etc.  They can even set you up with an experienced business mentor.  

Doing the business end right can mean all the difference.  They can help you do it right.


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## KmH (Mar 28, 2014)

What country are you in?
Is your business a sole proprietorship, a LLC, or a sub-chapter S corporation?
Will you be keeping the business financial records or have you hired an accountant to do that for you?
Which accounting method will you be using - the accrual accounting method or the cash accounting method?
Which insurance company(s) are you using for your business liability insurance, for errors and omission (E&O) insurance, and for equipment insurance?

Copyright release is not a good term to use, from a legal perspective.
At the end of the day, the copyrights to the photos you make are a valuable asset you own and copyright is a bundle of rights.
You can rent those rights in a piecemeal manner.
Also copyright is federal law here in the USA, so it's the same in all 50 states and for each business - www.copyright.gov

Instead use the term - use license. In retail photography a use license is often called a print release.
A use license/print release is a type of photograph rental agreement.

Unless you enjoy taking on the risk of spending time and money on lawyers and court costs, yes -  you need a well written contract that every customer signs, and valid model releases on file. Also note that there are other details regarding model and property releases you need to know about:
A Digital Photographer's Guide to Model Releases: Making the Best Business Decisions with Your Photos of People, Places and Things
Having a qualifies attorney review or write all your legal documents is highly recommended.

Model release law varies by state in the USA so using a generic one you find online might backfire on you.
FWIW - minors do not have sufficient legal standing to sign contracts nor model releases - their parents have to sign for them.

Starting & Managing a Business | SBA.gov

Contact your city government to discover what their requirements are for starting/registering a business.
Contact your state government to discover what the state requirements are for starting/registering a business.


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## manaheim (Mar 28, 2014)

Hey look!

Someone is starting a photography business!

Man!

I bet no one has ever thought of that!  There's probably like NO competition out there. It's a world for the taking!


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## ecphoto (Mar 29, 2014)

manaheim said:


> Hey look!
> 
> Someone is starting a photography business!
> 
> ...



Now now Manaheim, no need to be mean! The photo business will do that on its own.

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk


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## Designer (Mar 29, 2014)

Running a successful business requires a LOT of additional information.  You will need to develop a business plan, set up a legal entity, obtain a tax filing ID number, set up a record-keeping system, obtain liability insurance, have at least 6 months cash reserves on hand (more is better), and find forms such as contracts, model release forms, and license use forms. 

If I missed anything, I cannot be held legally responsible for errors and omissions due to this being a common internet forum, and you and I have never met to discuss business or legal responsibilities.


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## bribrius (Mar 29, 2014)

okay. im going to be the naysayer here. Forget the small business administration, i tried that route once. it was a joke. 
i cant speak for a photography business, but a lot of this.. is well b.s.
you don't need this kind of headache for a insignificant business.
we ran a 60k flowthrough (A WEEK) d.b.a including leased equipment, office space, shoving invoices and bill of sales in boxes, purchase orders, with a occasional part time account putting in a few hour after hours sorting the crap. Only thing we had on the computer was checks we scanned, and SALES LEADS payroll we started sorting on index cards (im not kidding) for deductions. i know someone that had six stores that hired a outside payroll company to cut the checks (dirt cheap) and keep track of that and they were doing the same thing shoving crap in boxes (though they did end up incorporating).
And im pretty sure these businesses are probably much larger with more going in and out than the majority of what you will find on this site from anyone.
concentrate on SALES. That is what counts. Sales. keep the overhead low, and put everything on SALES. Want to put something on a computer, put sales leads on first. Make sure you are legal though, sales certificate, take out taxes, charge taxes, pay in what you need to. Don't skip out on it as it will catch up with you. especially if you start taking on employees.


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## bribrius (Mar 29, 2014)

i probably should adapt that , as someone could go a little gung ho and get in trouble. i did have a insurance, i did have a business permit license from the city for the office location (simple application they do a walk through check zoning and sign off) and still do. so there is some hoops, But don't get to caught up on having a "business" so that you aren't directing the most of your energy to selling and floating that business. And do what you are good at. you can spend ten hours a week dealing with paperwork or hire someone for five hours to do it for you that is licensed to do it. Don't be scared to hire things out, as that is more energy you can put into doing what you are supposed to (running your business). Money coming in. check with a bank too open a account, get yourself set up with a check scanner so you can just scan checks, get a credit card scanner (small fee but worth it just add a unseen upcharge), come up with a advertising budget. As you can probably tell, im pushing everything toward sales. But from my limited experience that is where it really counts. Having a perfectly set up business does nothing for you when it goes bk in four months.  Spending lots of money on setting up your business, taking out loans, just ensures you will might go bk sooner. Last i checked i could get a cheaper financing on my own than with a sba backed loan without a business plan. Also, if you only want cash reserve, sba loans didn't really fit the bill for me. i wanted a two week pay back week to week not a two week business plan review. seemed like a lot of b.s.


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## IronMaskDuval (Mar 29, 2014)

There's no need for SBA. There's no need for MBA. There's no need for anything but one thing, sales. I don't care what business you're in, who you know or how talented you are, if your lights aren't on, you're out of business and only one thing keeps the lights on-- sales. If you want to be an entrepreneur and become a successful one, you have to do all of the groundwork yourself. You can't rely on hiring anyone else to do what YOU need to do to lay the foundation of your business. As one of the founders of the Oxford at Brenau Entrepreneur MBA program, I can tell you that no matter how much you spend on putting your face into a book, it will NOT make you successful at your business. I've had officers working for me that graduated from top tier business programs, and they are nothing more than robots.

If you need to learn something, learn how to communicate and practice approaching strangers. Sales is hard, and it's not for everyone; however, sales is the key component in determining how successful you are. The more you approach, the higher the chance of you getting that break that you need. You can't expect to open studio doors and have people trampling in. It doesn't work like that.


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## IronMaskDuval (Mar 29, 2014)

Oh, and I forgot one thing that is even more critical than sales-- skills!


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## bribrius (Mar 29, 2014)

IronMaskDuval said:


> Oh, and I forgot one thing that is even more critical than sales-- skills!


lol. i was wondering if i should respond to this at all because i know jack **** about a photography business (if i ever actually try to start one ill have to make up a similar thread) but you sounded a lot like me.  we paid a guy to stuff envelopes (advertisements for our "specials") and run them through the postage machine you get from the u.s. postal service for a week once. id like to think that was a good reason to hire someone as i sure didn't want to sit there stuffing envelopes and running them through it. LMAO


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## IronMaskDuval (Mar 29, 2014)

bribrius said:


> lol. i was wondering if i should respond to this at all because i know jack **** about a photography business (if i ever actually try to start one ill have to make up a similar thread) but you sounded a lot like me.  we paid a guy to stuff envelopes (advertisements for our "specials") and run them through the postage machine you get from the u.s. postal service for a week once. id like to think that was a good reason to hire someone as i sure didn't want to sit there stuffing envelopes and running them through it. LMAO



Stuffing envelopes isn't direct sales nor is it building a foundation. I can't see myself doing this either. I don't have a photo business nor do I want one, but the basics of running a successful startup is nearly identical.


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## bribrius (Mar 29, 2014)

IronMaskDuval said:


> bribrius said:
> 
> 
> > lol. i was wondering if i should respond to this at all because i know jack **** about a photography business (if i ever actually try to start one ill have to make up a similar thread) but you sounded a lot like me. we paid a guy to stuff envelopes (advertisements for our "specials") and run them through the postage machine you get from the u.s. postal service for a week once. id like to think that was a good reason to hire someone as i sure didn't want to sit there stuffing envelopes and running them through it. LMAO
> ...


makes sense. what is really scary is before we realized we could get the machine we were buying rolls of stamps and putting them on by hand. That got old quick. so there is a business lesson. If you think something is ludicrous don't be afraid to ask around it there is a easier way to do it.


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## IronMaskDuval (Mar 29, 2014)

bribrius said:


> makes sense. what is really scary is before we realized we could get the machine we were buying rolls of stamps and putting them on by hand. That got old quick. so there is a business lesson. If you think something is ludicrous don't be afraid to ask around it there is a easier way to do it.



Lol I remember those days. But back then, the pb  machine was a bit out of financial reach


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## 71M (Mar 29, 2014)

rwilliams said:


> exactly what do I need?


 What are you trying to do? 'photography business' is a bit vague.


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## vintagesnaps (Mar 29, 2014)

I'd be reading up on licensing, releases, insurance, taxes, etc. etc. I'd rather get informed and prevent potential problems as much as possible rather than have something bite me in the ass later because I didn't do my homework. I think there are a lot of decisions to be made on how you want to proceed and how to handle various situations or any problems that could come up. 

Besides taking a look at SBA I'd look at your state's info. related to registering and running a business. There's business info. and resources for photographers on  American Society of Media Photographers and other professional photographers organizations' websites.


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## rwilliams (Apr 1, 2014)

Why the sarcasm? Is this not what this forum is for?



manaheim said:


> Hey look!
> 
> Someone is starting a photography business!
> 
> ...


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## Designer (Apr 1, 2014)

Don't take it personally.  Yes, for the most part that is what this forum is for, but I think you also need to get some expert legal help as well.


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## Steve5D (Apr 1, 2014)

rwilliams said:


> Why the sarcasm? Is this not what this forum is for?



It's _exactly _what this portion of the forum is for.

Don't let the naysayers sway you. Don't believe that you need a business degree. _*You don't*_. Is it good to have? Sure. But it's not a necessity.

There's a lot to do, certainly, and you'll probably be surprised at how many people here will try to convince you not to do it. 

Don't listen to them...


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## pixmedic (Apr 1, 2014)

I am going to assume you are in the United States. 
what you "need" for a "business" is pretty simple. 
you need a tax ID (SS # for sole proprietorship) and a registered fictitious name if you are using one. that's pretty much it really. 
if you have a storefront you will need a business license. some counties require a business license regardless of whether you have a storefront or not, but not all. (ours does not) 

_*every*_ client should sign a contract. even if you do the shoot for free. 
there are plenty of "generic" contracts you can find online, but its always best if you have a business lawyer look it over.


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## manaheim (Apr 1, 2014)

rwilliams said:


> Why the sarcasm? Is this not what this forum is for?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Everyone has their days. 

There's a real point or two buried in there, though. It's very much the "in thing" for people to try to start photography businesses these days. You're swimming in a sea of marginally qualified competition pricing their time and product at below-cost levels. That includes people like me, who are actually halfway decent photographers, but cannot hold a candle to a true pro.

Can you do it? Yes.

Is it easy? HELL no.

Will you succeed? Maybe.

It's probably more about business sense than talent, but either way you need to go into this with eyes wide open.


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## Steve5D (Apr 1, 2014)

manaheim said:


> Hey look!
> 
> Someone is starting a photography business!
> 
> ...



Wow...


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## bribrius (Apr 1, 2014)

manaheim said:


> rwilliams said:
> 
> 
> > Why the sarcasm? Is this not what this forum is for?
> ...


I thought you were a pro? wow. theres a let down. And here I was thrilled to have you critiquing my photos... :banghead:

(joking..joking.....)


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## ronstar (Apr 1, 2014)

I was a business owner for 20 years, with a business degree, but I would never start a photography business. Partially because I'm not as skilled as those that have their own business, and partially due to photography having no barriers to entry. Anyone can start a photography business, making it more difficult to start up and make a decent profit. But I believe that a photographer with great skills, a good business sense, and access to a good customer base can build a successful business.


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## Steve5D (Apr 1, 2014)

ronstar said:


> I was a business owner for 20 years, with a business degree, but I would never start a photography business. Partially because I'm not as skilled as those that have their own business, and partially due to photography having no barriers to entry. Anyone can start a photography business...



What kind of business did you own?


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