# I have to ask ...



## Stormchase (Jul 18, 2010)

I know this Is a noob macro question. I have done shooting but have not been close to happy with my results. I recently added the Raynox M 250 to the bag. I have not been able to get close enough to my little friends to get full magnification capabilities wich is what I wanted.
I guess my question is tips on approaching subjects for magnification. I have trouble sometime even at 90mm but mostly at mag.. any help would be great! 
Love all the post on here BTW!


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## oldmacman (Jul 18, 2010)

Stormchase said:


> I know this Is a noob macro question. I have done shooting but have not been close to happy with my results. I recently added the Raynox M 250 to the bag. I have not been able to get close enough to my little friends to get full magnification capabilities wich is what I wanted.
> I guess my question is tips on approaching subjects for magnification. I have trouble sometime even at 90mm but mostly at mag.. any help would be great!
> Love all the post on here BTW!



Technically, most macros don't magnify. I think your Tamron 90mm is a 1:1 macro which means if your fly is 10mm long in reality, it will be 10mm long on your sensor. Of course, that makes it look huge when printed. When you use a lens modifier, like an extension tube, you reduce the plane of focus making it harder to capture your image. I wonder if the Raynox does the same thing.


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## Stormchase (Jul 18, 2010)

Thanks for your response, Yes the Raynox seems to do the sane thing. Here is a link to a post I put up the night I got it. Nothing special, just a trial shot.

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...hoto-gallery/209989-raynox-m-250-recived.html
Yeah its a Tamron 90mm. I do ok, for the most part, with just the macro. It's 1:1 and nice on a crop sensor too. Adding on the dioptor just REALLY amplified everything including difficulty lol. I know its practice for the most part but tips and hints really help!
I wanted to add as well that I don't really have a prob in a studio but in the field shooting live Insects and bugs is giving me Issues. I use a tripod and fastest shutter speed for little light. Im not looking for a good shot for DoF quite yet just a capture that Is ok to say "I like the quality of the raynox". Also,I try to hold the end of my lens and the leaf that the subject Is on with my fingers to steady everything. Then snap it with my remote release. 
Anything else I could try. I'm getting a flash set up soon and the will help my clarity and light a lot. I dont believe it will do anuthing on getting close enough to get the shot.tho.


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## NateS (Jul 18, 2010)

I don't know much about the diopters, but I'd suggest a set of tubes.  It will probably (not sure) give you more working distance...but more importantly is that it doesn't put any more glass in line which means no drop in quality and you will be able to work your way from a 12mm tube to 68mm as you get the hang of each increase in mag.  I did this and am now shooting with 68mm of tubes pretty much exclusively now and find it easy to handhold.  As far as scaring critters...this has more to do with technique of approaching insects.  While I do have a Tamron 180mm, I am often able to nearly touch most insects before they run off by using subtle and slow movements.


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## Stormchase (Jul 18, 2010)

Nate thanks for the responce. I believe tubes would get me closer to my subject. I don't need to be any closer. If I,remember right my working distance Is about 1.5 inches. I also believe the diopter took off a physical .5 inches so that leaves me with around 1 inch for max magnification. If you got.a chance to look at my link and the coin shot, I was showing the razor thin DoF. I don't quite think it is as sallow as the mpe 65 but its a new game for me! shooting bugs even 1 inch away I cant keep it in focus or I get motion blur. That's more of what I seek. I see people that use bellows, focusing rails and arms that hold the subject still that come out frm under the lens to front of the lens too. Off the top of my mind I cant think of the name of that but Kinda wondering If that type of equipment might lend a helping hand? Or is It going to be user knowledge, if so what.


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## Overread (Jul 18, 2010)

Diopters and extension tubes work the same way = they both remove infinity focus from the lens and decrease your minimum focusing distance - thus letting you get closer and thus giving a more magnified shot.
As for optical quality reductions there are 2 things to bare in mind.
1) Most (pretty much all for DSLRs that I am aware of) setups will have you reducing the effective aperture as you increase the magnification of the shot - the result of this is that instead of being at f5.6 or wider as shown on the cameras menu you might infact be at f16 or greater. The result of this is that as magnification increases you have to keep the lens open wider (As read on the cameras menu) in order to help avoid softness from diffraction occuring.

2) Adding glass to the setup or adding distance between the lens and the camera sensor is going to degrade optical quality of the setup - its unavoidable. However highgrade options like Raynox Diopters and tubes offer very little optical quality drop. Infact the Canon MPE65mm macro has been beaten, optically speaking, but a bellows+lens+(raynox)diopter setup at 5:1 magnification. 


As for getting the shots clear - practice practice practice - super glue!! Ok maybe not the superglue! You can of course help yourself with a few pointers:
1) insects feeding or doing other things tend to be totally concentrated on that one activity - and thus will often let you get far closer because they are already distracted

2) early mornings, after quick rainstorms and any other time that things get cold is a good time for insects - you can often find them trapped out in the sudden cold (eg many bees will get "stranded" in quick rainstorms as they cool down) or sunning themselves before the morning is through as they warm up after a cold night.

3) try not to overshadow your subject- some insects don't care - for others its a clear warning signal and they will scarper. 

4) many creepy crawlies (bugs that live under things) will often go mad when exposed and won't stop for a moment till they are again under something (or think they are under something). this can make this group really rather hard to track.


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## Stormchase (Jul 19, 2010)

Overhead thanks for responding, 
You assure me about the cold. I live in Florida and all summer there really isn't a "cold" time of.the day. Tho we do get a lot of rain wich drops the temp a little. I'll just have spend more time looking in that time frame. I have heard this before and ill work this. 
I also heard a while ago another macro forum, you are on as well, (wich I have been lurking) that I believe Brian V mentioned bringing Honey with him when he goes out for a shoot. I did forget about that and should put some next to my bag when I get home. lol at superglue! Tho it would make It easier right? I got enough greef from another shot I did wich was less cruel. 
Very good pointers you gave me. Some new and some important reminders as well. When I get home next weekend it will be time to practice! I do have endless patience but at the same time I cant wait to up my macro game to a new level.


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## Overread (Jul 19, 2010)

I keep meaning to do a proper honey/sugar water  setup though I never remember to bring the stuff with me. From what I know though it appears that you only need a small amount of it placed on to a plant/rock etc... then leave it for a little while to attract bugs. Don't leave it too long though as you'll find they drink it all


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## Stormchase (Jul 19, 2010)

Yup  I'm going to try to remember that one too. Seems like its only good to come from it!


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## Arkanjel Imaging (Jul 19, 2010)

Stormchase said:


> Yup  I'm going to try to remember that one too. Seems like its only good to come from it!


 

Unless, of course, the bugs you attract are fire ants or Africanized killer-bees!  :blackeye:


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## Stormchase (Jul 21, 2010)

lol, fire ants are evil... evil I tell ya! I wouldn't mind seeing some shots tho I'm not signing up for the job. I've already been attacked ... no fun!


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## Arkanjel Imaging (Jul 21, 2010)

Stormchase said:


> lol, fire ants are evil... evil I tell ya! I wouldn't mind seeing some shots tho I'm not signing up for the job. I've already been attacked ... no fun!


 

Ya.  Im here in FL too.  You guys get some nasty mounds out there in the middle.  Probably the tallest land feature in the state.


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## Stormchase (Jul 21, 2010)

Lol that's funny.


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