# Family shoot gone wrong!



## nychaimages (Nov 23, 2018)

So I did a session with a small family (mom,father, child) and they were great. However, the mom was extremely bossy. Being that I am the photographer, I know a little more about what I’m doing and how things are supposed to go. Instead, she tried to take on the photographer role and tell me how to pose them and where to stand and almost how to operate my camera! Maybe I am just over thinking it or something but I felt as though it was a little rude. I didn’t even charge her, it was a free shoot that I offered to do and sacrifice some time away from my family. 

How do you handle a bossy client who tries to take over? 
Am I thinking too far into it or was this lady slightly rude? 


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## tirediron (Nov 23, 2018)

Clients come in all flavours.  When I get one that thinks they know better than I do, I start by saying, "Sure, we can try that..." after a few minutes of letting them have it their way, I tell them that I'd like to try something different.  If they still insist on driving the bus, I'll stop the shoot and explain that they've hired me, I'm the expert and if they want my expertise, fine, I'll do what I do.  If they want to continue to run things, I don't think we're going to be able to work together, and if necessary, I'll pack up my lens cap and leave.


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## Designer (Nov 24, 2018)

nychaimages said:


> ..the mom was extremely bossy.
> 
> Am I thinking too far into it or was this lady slightly rude?


Yes, but then how you handle it is the measure of your professionalism.  Some people are just naturally bossy or abrasive in other ways, but life goes on.  As long as you didn't escalate it, you did fine.


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## Braineack (Nov 24, 2018)

In my experience, as soon as that starts happening, the day is ruined.

I try to assert myself as soon as I walk in the door.  I make people leave the area.  You gotta be the alpha.

Having help from mom and dad is great, but it can also easily get out of hand.  I had one mom once say: let's just put the kids on the floor and you just take pictures of them -- how about no.  I just explained, we setup the lights for standing poses in front of the fireplace like we planned, and if they wanted snapshots, they could take them with their cell phones between poses...


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## dennybeall (Nov 24, 2018)

I'm old and opinionated but my thought is: If you want to be a Service Professional then you provide the service to suite the client. Pose the family the way the family (MOMMA) wants them posed. Once you've built a reputation and become an artist then they can do it your way or the highway.....
There are ways to deal with folks like that but it usually takes a lot of tongue biting.
In these days of Social Media word of mouth you have to deal with every single customer if you want to do well. One ticked off customer can put you out of business.


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## nychaimages (Nov 24, 2018)

Designer said:


> nychaimages said:
> 
> 
> > ..the mom was extremely bossy.
> ...



I didn’t escalate it because I wanted to remain professional. I considered her suggestions and I did some of the things she insisted on doing but once it got to be too much for me, I told her that I appreciate the instruction but I am comfortable doing things the way I intended and to ensure a great result from the shoot I have to do things the way I am accustomed. 


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## nychaimages (Nov 24, 2018)

Braineack said:


> In my experience, as soon as that starts happening, the day is ruined.
> 
> I try to assert myself as soon as I walk in the door.  I make people leave the area.  You gotta be the alpha.
> 
> Having help from mom and dad is great, but it can also easily get out of hand.  I had one mom once say: let's just put the kids on the floor and you just take pictures of them -- how about no.  I just explained, we setup the lights for standing poses in front of the fireplace like we planned, and if they wanted snapshots, they could take them with their cell phones between poses...



Thank you, I agree 100%. 


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## nychaimages (Nov 24, 2018)

dennybeall said:


> I'm old and opinionated but my thought is: If you want to be a Service Professional then you provide the service to suite the client. Pose the family the way the family (MOMMA) wants them posed. Once you've built a reputation and become an artist then they can do it your way or the highway.....
> There are ways to deal with folks like that but it usually takes a lot of tongue biting.
> In these days of Social Media word of mouth you have to deal with every single customer if you want to do well. One ticked off customer can put you out of business.



Exactly! I tried to stay professional as possible because I understand that this can ruin a lot for me


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## Derrel (Nov 24, 2018)

I have been a studio photographer in multiple different cities, and the type of mother you describe exists. We used to shoot a lot of sets every day, and I have run into quite a few of the bossy-type moms. Moms actually ruin a lot of photo sessions by looking at the kids to be the smile-police, when the mother should be looking ahead, at the camera, like the rest of the family. Moms can ruin sets by directing the other family members. As has already been said, you must be the alpha. You establish that from the very start of the session. Tirediron's comment is one way to handle a bossy mom (in thousands of sessions, I never once met a "bossy dad"); tell her, "We can try some shots your way," and then you can do that, but then you say, "Your way isn't working, let's do it my way." That immediately undercuts her judgement.standing in front of the others. The other way is to say, flat out, "I'm in charge, let's shoot this this way: ___ __ ___ ____ __ ___,with ___ _ ___ __ ___ ____," However, making a bold, alpha who-is-in-charge type of statement takes some gumption, and many people will not do it, either out of timidity or respect or for some other reason.

Nychimages, your profile photo makes me think you are young, possibly female; if you are young, either male or female, it could be that the mother feels like she's hired somebody who is nothing more than a so-called "hired gun", somebody who will listen to her, "the boss", and who will shoot to specification, exactly as-commanded. Perhaps there was a miscommunication before the session, or perhaps the mother had some very specific ideas about what she wanted photographed, and exactly how she wanted it done.

Anyway...get used to this "bossy mom" type of behavior unless you realize that, to discourage and minimize it, you must be the alpha; you must be in-charge, and in-command during a studio session. This has to be made clear in a pre-shoot consultation. You simply must make it clear "how" the session will be done. There can be room for pre-planned poses and pre-planned groups, and there can be room for free-form posing and loose poses and spontaneous ideas, but ALL of that needs to be talked about, BEFORE you start the session. If, during a session, there is some problem, you need to solve the problem by your own command. If somebody is acting up, *you* need to use your voice to tell the person(s) to behave better, or to leave the area if they are doing a peanut gallery behavior (like trying to play smile-police).


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## JoeW (Nov 24, 2018)

Here's the challenge about being a professional portrait photographer:  until you reach the point where you're shooting Presidents and Oscar-winners, you have to accept that you are going to end up shooting some serious a-holes and bridezillas at times.  If you shoot only people you like or people who are attractive or people you work well with, then you're be so selective that your business won't take off.  The reality of portrait photography today is that, unless you've got an incredible reputation (maybe you won a Pulitzer in Afghanistan for your conflict photography), you're going to have to earn your rep.  And that means saying "yes" to a lot of assignments and a lot of clients that won't ring your bells and excite you about photography.

If I can use an analogy, it's like someone starting out in sports photojournalism and expecting to be shooting professional teams.  Your local paper editor is going to roll their eyes and then say "here's your assignment for Friday--the local Football team, followed by the girl's volley ball game on Saturday morning, the list of soccer games on Saturday day and then photos of the press conference with the basketball coach on Saturday night."


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## otherprof (Nov 24, 2018)

nychaimages said:


> So I did a session with a small family (mom,father, child) and they were great. However, the mom was extremely bossy. Being that I am the photographer, I know a little more about what I’m doing and how things are supposed to go. Instead, she tried to take on the photographer role and tell me how to pose them and where to stand and almost how to operate my camera! Maybe I am just over thinking it or something but I felt as though it was a little rude. I didn’t even charge her, it was a free shoot that I offered to do and sacrifice some time away from my family.
> 
> How do you handle a bossy client who tries to take over?
> Am I thinking too far into it or was this lady slightly rude?
> ...


I can’t help thinking that the fact you were doing the shoot at no charge had a lot to do with her attitude and allowed her to treat you as less than professional.


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## mrca (Nov 27, 2018)

First, since you are shooting this for free, expect the subject to value your skills at just that, nothing. When folks pay for something they think it has some value.   I expect you are new at this and it is hard to exude confidence and professionalism when new especially if struggling with lights, poses etc. As the above posts indicate, there are numerous ways to handle a client who wants to take control.  You have to sense which approach applies with the individual client.  However, it is often HOW you say it more than what you say that will elicit a response.   Butting heads immediately is not my go to approach.  Remember when working with children you may have a limited window of attention span/cooperation.  I would say something like: That is a good idea, however, the lights are set for X so let's quickly do that then I can adjust for your suggestion and we can shoot it.  That way, you get good shots in the can before you go off on a wild goose chase with momma's ideas.   With adults, I have an idea what they need and want before starting so give them that.   Once that is in the can, by that time they are more comfortable in front of the camera,  have seen some shots they like so have more confidence in me and are more fatigued and their guard and facade comes down a bit.  Then I go for the stuff I think would be great.  They ALWAYS pick some of those shots and they are often the favorites but still pick some of the early cliched crap.  A recent shoot like that my shot ended up on a magazine cover.  What do you care, that's an extra sale and you got to shoot what you like.  However, as Bambi Cantrell said, beauty is in the eye of the checkbook holder, so if you don't at least take a run at her desires, you will probably have a disgruntled client.   With adults, I let them see how crappy their posing is with the lighting.  Then SUGGEST we try to improve it and let them see why you are the photographer.   I have a T shirt that says I am the photographer to save time assume I know everything.  Learn to be confident and in control in your sessions and that will minimize these issues.   How does that adage go, don't let them see you sweat.   Another is they can smell your fear.


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## InFlight (Nov 27, 2018)

I would have simply start discussing how to be a mother and wife.


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## snowbear (Nov 27, 2018)

That's one way to make a bad situation worse.


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## vagabondkidd (Nov 28, 2018)

This is something that could hurt my ego for doing something for free.


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## InFlight (Nov 28, 2018)

Hey...
Negative attention is attention.  Could help the business.  
Instead of gossip around the neighborhoods how Mrs. B was cut down to size...
Another no named victim is born.


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## Scoody (Nov 28, 2018)

When I do family shoots, weddings and Quinceaneras, I have my wife along as an assistant.  A professional image goes a long way.  We wear matching photographer vests with the company logo on them.  My wife directs the shoot and is very assertive.  She explains how everything  is going to go and will take them through their poses.  After we go through a few scripted shots and change the line up she will ask, "Is there a shot you had in mind?"  If there is we do that one shot and continue with out script.  It all runs smoothly.  Except for that time that the groom's family and bride's family got into a brawl with the wedding cake winding up on the floor and the snack table getting knocked over.


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## lance70 (Feb 27, 2019)

Middle finger in the air and walk off


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## Grandpa Ron (Mar 4, 2019)

I would say "great idea" we will do that next. Then mix her ideas in with your own. It never hurts to make someone happy.

No matter how good your photos are, they would never be as good as if you had done it her way. But, if you do it both ways she can pick the best, which most likely will be yours. If not, oh well, you at least made someone happy and that is never a bad thing.

Some folks know what they want , good or bad, they know what they want.


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## Strodav (Mar 4, 2019)

Dealing with the public can be brutal and every situation is different.  I try and to avoid problems by asking the customer what they are expecting from the session before I break out my gear.  I ask how they are going to use the photos - social media or prints and what sizes and ask for examples from previous years' shoots if they have any.   I explain how I work, lighting, posing, etc.  If things get tough, I start to ask questions like: "You seem to know a lot about this, where did you learn portrait photography?"; "Ask what type of equipment she has?"; "Can I see some of your work that you are fond of so I can try and copy it here?".  They usually get the hint.  If not, I go to "I'm getting the impression you aren't comfortable with my work.  Would you like me to go?  I do my best to leave under the best situation possible to avoid getting slammed on social media.


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## mrca (Mar 9, 2019)

I think Derrel touched on a something critical, the design or consult appointment.  You set up how the shoot will go there as well as the sales session.   In thatmeeting TELL them what will be done.  Tell them why.   Establish yourself as an expert.  Show them examples of what you want to accomplish and explain why.  I guarantee mom has no clue on what goes into a good portrait.  That should tamp down any momzilla craziness.  Then in the camera room take command.  You are the expert.  Funny, I recently had surgery and didn't tell the surgeon which knife to use, how to position me on the operating table and for those who think amateurs work is good enough, I didn't call my friend who has a scalpel to do the surgery for free.   And I certainly didn't try to do it myself.  I had mentioned the lack of respect for free work, I wonder if she would have done that if she was paying one or two thousand for the shoot.


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## smoke665 (Mar 9, 2019)

mrca said:


> I didn't call my friend who has a scalpel to do the surgery for free. And I certainly didn't try to do it myself. I had mentioned the lack of respect for free work, I wonder if she would have done that if she was paying one or two thousand for the shoot.



You should have called me, I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express once.  The lack of respect for free work unfortunately doesn't apply to just friends. I have a close family member who is overly critical of my work, runs it down at every opportunity and turns her nose up at the suggestion of letting me photograph her kids for free. She's one of those who associates price with quality in everything. She's paid $$$$ on photo sessions with photographers that are mediocre at best, and doesn't have a clue.


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## mrca (Mar 9, 2019)

Does she know her butt from deep center field?  If you know the quality of your work, you are casting your pearls among swine.  Bingo on the price equated with quality.  Another reason not to try to be the lowest price.  That gets you the bottom feeders who will dump you for someone with a lower price and the low price makes them not value your work.


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## smoke665 (Mar 9, 2019)

mrca said:


> Does she know her butt from deep center field?



An emphatic no! LOL been that way for years. I did enjoy a little revenge on her most recent expenditure. Whoever she hired used a wide angle lens and had her posed squared shoulders. She 's always been a little heavy set, but the combination had her so bloated she could have doubled for the Pillsbury Doughboy. I didn't say anything but her husband commented about it (out of her hearing).


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## tirediron (Mar 9, 2019)

smoke665 said:


> mrca said:
> 
> 
> > Does she know her butt from deep center field?
> ...


Karma... she's a female dog!


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## Christie Photo (Mar 9, 2019)

I simply just don't do that.  I make MY images.  This is known before the start of the session.  

-Pete


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## Designer (Mar 9, 2019)

Christie Photo said:


> I simply just don't do that.  I make MY images.  This is known before the start of the session.
> 
> -Pete


As it should be.  If clients take the time to study a photographer's portfolio, they should know what they're contracting for.  

I get the idea that some customers don't consider the photographer's work ahead of time.


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## Grandpa Ron (Mar 9, 2019)

It is interesting to see how other people would have handled this situations and certainly sage advise for those starting out. 

I think the biggest issue in this particular scenario was it was a freebee. Basically you are doing  a friend a favor. Unfortunately, some folks like their favors done there way. 

No good deed goes unpunished


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## Jean Green (Mar 12, 2019)

It is not a nice thing but it is probably normal. I mean not the behavior but the fact that there are such clients in different jobs.


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