# Fader ND Filter



## OscarWilde (Mar 7, 2012)

Anyone had any experience with fader ND filters? I'm deciding between just a 3 stop or getting a fader which advertises 1-10 stops. It just seems odd to me... I can get the 3 stop for $80 or I can get 1-10 for $90? I'm assuming quality is the expended variable here... Whether that`s quality of the images or quality of the filter itself; I don`t really know!

Any feedback would be welcome!


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## OscarWilde (Mar 7, 2012)

85 Views and no replies! My first real question on this forum and I've stumped you all!? Perhaps a more broad question?

Does anyone on here have _any _experience with ND (Neutral Density) Filters? Normal ones (1, 2, 3, etc stops) Big Stops (8, 9, 10 stops) or Faders 1-10 stops or even the Faded ones where part of the filter is a higher F stop and another part is a lower F stop.

Anything at all! I've done quite a bit of theoretical research; I just want to know how they function practically!


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## Desi (Mar 7, 2012)

I haven't seen any talk on this forum regarding the faders, so I wonder if there is much experience on this board regarding this topic.

There is lots of experience with the others, but I think your question may be too broad.

My basic understanding is as follows:  1-3 stops are useful when it is too bright outside and you want to either use a slower shutter speed (for motion) or a larger aperture (for depth of field).  The big stoppers are great for capturing motion (long shots on bright days).  The big stoppers are a lot of fun but a bit tricky to use, since you can't really see through them and your exposure is based on guess-work.

You can stack filters.

Polarizers also act as 1 stop ND filters.

Graduated filters are bulky and more expensive but allow you to balance a bright sky and darker foreground, such as when you want to capture a sunset and you want the beach in front of you to be well exposed.  Also, they don't screw directly onto your lens.

This thread has some of my experience with a big stopper.  I hope it helps.  http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/photography-beginners-forum/264517-another-afternoon-beach.html

Desi


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## OscarWilde (Mar 8, 2012)

Honestly, this was the kind of answer I was looking for! So basically if I was to buy something like a 1-3 stop set I could achieve 1-6 stops? I would need step rings and bigger filters, though, for that to work without vignetting, right?

I had no idea that graduated filters didn't screw on, I had assumed they were the same! 

In the interest of sharing what I know:

Fader filters are 2 rings attached (with one slightly larger to avoid vignetting). You turn the outer ring and it increases the stops in one direction and decreases in the other direction. It allows you to have a functional 1-10 stop (or more) ND filter on your camera without changing it every time you desire a different stop.

What I've heard: They don't give quite the same sharpness when compared to a standard ND filter. I know they are more commonly used with video cameras but they still function (and attach; obviously) to a DSLR lens. 

And a more specific question:
When buying filters (of any kind) what are the things that change with cheaper filters? Is it really the quality of the image that changes or do they just break and wear out faster? AND what is a nice-ish mid-range for prices for an ND filter?

I have been assuming that $0-100 is the low to mid range and $100+ is the mid to high range... is this accurate? Or should I be looking a bit higher for a nice mid range filter?


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## 480sparky (Mar 8, 2012)

The problems with stacking ND filters;

1. Vignetting becomes a serious issue, especially when using wide-angle lenses.
2. Al that glass seriously affects the image quality.
3. Risk of dust, smudges & fingerprints on all those extra surfaces.


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## ann (Mar 8, 2012)

I have a Graduated ND filter that screws on and has an outer ring that turns to place the ND section in the area you wish.


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## 480sparky (Mar 8, 2012)

ann said:


> I have a Graduated ND filter that screws on and has an outer ring that turns to place the ND section in the area you wish.



Graduated NDs are not the same as a variable/fader NDs.


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## Joey_Ricard (Mar 8, 2012)

480sparky said:


> ann said:
> 
> 
> > I have a Graduated ND filter that screws on and has an outer ring that turns to place the ND section in the area you wish.
> ...



Exactly, and I have yet to see anyone using them for still images within my group of peers. I use drop in filters, so this didn't interest me when I first saw them, but I hear some video guys use them (DSLR video guys that is) where the lowest native ISO is about 160 and then need less light.....


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## PapaMatt (Mar 8, 2012)

I use a 10 stop fader, In very BRIGHT sun it is a must have option for me, The 77mm size, helps when used on a 67 or lesser mm lens


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## Joey_Ricard (Mar 8, 2012)

I use a 10 stop and various (stops) ND filters for some of my daylight stuff such as waterfalls etc. These are drop in filters.

Matt, do you use this fader as if you were stacking and unstacking ND filters in general? I'd be interested in seeing samples of the variable degrees to see how they look.


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## PapaMatt (Mar 8, 2012)

Joey_Ricard said:


> I use a 10 stop and various (stops) ND filters for some of my daylight stuff such as waterfalls etc. These are drop in filters.
> 
> Matt, do you use this fader as if you were stacking and unstacking ND filters in general? I'd be interested in seeing samples of the variable degrees to see how they look.



I use the Nature Fader ND it has a density of just 8 stops, sorry not 10, it can go more but best results stop at 8, It is used like a circular polarize filter, I do not stack filters.I can go from 1.500 sec at f8 to 1 sec at f 11 or even 4 sec at f22, handy to have.


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## PapaMatt (Mar 8, 2012)

If interested I will take some shots showing you the difference next week.


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## bazooka (Mar 8, 2012)

My wife got me the Genus fader for my b-day but it wasn't good at all.  I read that many people were noticing softness at longer FL's.  I could see immediately that the filtering at the densest was VERY uneven and simply unusable.  I didn't take any test shots at different values.  I took it back and got a b+w 6 stop nd.  However, David Hobby uses and highly recommends the Singh Ray.  I think it's safe to say that the others are not very good.


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## Joey_Ricard (Mar 8, 2012)

PapaMatt said:


> If interested I will take some shots showing you the difference next week.



Yes, that would be cool just to get an idea of the effect quality at various degrees. Thanks


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## Joey_Ricard (Mar 8, 2012)

bazooka said:


> My wife got me the Genus fader for my b-day but it wasn't good at all. I read that many people were noticing softness at longer FL's. I could see immediately that the filtering at the densest was VERY uneven and simply unusable. I didn't take any test shots at different values. I took it back and got a b+w 6 stop nd. However, David Hobby uses and highly recommends the Singh Ray. I think it's safe to say that the others are not very good.



I use Lee filters and have stacked them for a long time, then out came the big stopper which I use occasionally (only for waterfall lately).
I do have a couple of Singh Ray Grad ND's - I do not have any ND (non grad) Singh Ray's, but I would image they are the same as the grad I have.
The idea of the fader is neat, but I hated circular screw on filters and will never use them again.


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## bazooka (Mar 8, 2012)

I'm strictly talking about faders in my post above.  I'm not referring to ND's.  Sorry for the confusion.


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## ann (Mar 8, 2012)

480sparky said:


> ann said:
> 
> 
> > I have a Graduated ND filter that screws on and has an outer ring that turns to place the ND section in the area you wish.
> ...



I know that, so......


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## OscarWilde (Mar 8, 2012)

Is stacking still a huge issue if you use stepping rings? I see the point about all the extra surfaces for dust and fingerprints.... I'm most likely going to buy the three piece set and even if I don't stack them I will at least have the option of 1-3 and 4 or 5 in a stretch. Thanks for all the feedback; I apologize for the vague-ness of my original post. Essentially I was just hoping for this: a solid discussion about the pros and cons of various ND filter types!

@Joey_Richard
I was looking at the Big Stopper (Lee) and apparently it has quite a blue tint to it. Can you verify at all? Hitech came out with their 10 Stop ND as well, and I remember seeing a review some time ago about it being the equal to the Lee 10. I'm just wondering which is really superior...

Lee always seems to come up in filter talk and seems like a majorly reliable brand...


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## Joey_Ricard (Mar 8, 2012)

Oscar, I actually have both - the lee and the hitech. I had bought the hitech for my brother who has not used it. I have not had a chance to really use it over the Lee but in the few shots I fooled with, it seemed close to the lee in terms of cast I was used to with the lee. I never give it much thought either way, because I shoot raw on auto WB then correct after the fact. (landscapes anyway). 

Depending on what you are shooting and metering off of without the filter, the cast could be more magenta then blue and also depending on the ambient light available and the length of the exposure. This is the same with all ND filters I have, so it's not something I even consider correcting with WB before or as I am shooting.

Sorry to say, I would have bought my brother a Lee version if it were available at the time, but they only had the hitech so I got it. I hope to find some time to fool with it now that I own it. Anything Lee or Singh Ray is good stuff. I don't like bashing other brands, but these are what I use.


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## 480sparky (Mar 8, 2012)

OscarWilde said:


> Is stacking still a huge issue if you use stepping rings? .........



The use of a step ring is not relevant.  3 pieces of glass is 3 pieces of glass.  The only thing you _may_ avoid is vignetting.


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## OscarWilde (Mar 8, 2012)

480sparky said:


> OscarWilde said:
> 
> 
> > Is stacking still a huge issue if you use stepping rings? .........
> ...



Sorry, Vignetting was the big deal I was referring to; you say "may". As in it doesn't always prevent vignetting?



> Depending on what you are shooting and metering off of without the filter, the cast could be more magenta then blue and also depending on the ambient light available and the length of the exposure. This is the same with all ND filters I have, so it's not something I even consider correcting with WB before or as I am shooting.


 

I also shoot a lot of RAW (depending how many pictures I'm taking, as I'm somewhat limited for memory at the moment...) so that is really good to know, that the white balance due to the filter can be fixed later. I also appreciate the advice about brands. When getting into anything new it always takes a while to find the brands that really fit your needs, but knowing what works for other people is a nice place to start!


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## table1349 (Mar 8, 2012)

Fader Filters vs Traditional ND Filters « Vincent Laforet's Blog


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## 480sparky (Mar 8, 2012)

OscarWilde said:


> Sorry, Vignetting was the big deal I was referring to; you say "may". As in it doesn't always prevent vignetting?
> 
> Using larger filters on a step right MAY prevent vignetting.  Without any specifics (thickness of filters, step ring sizes, how may you'll stack, and aperture and FOV of the lens you're using) it's impossible to make a blanket statement.


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## OscarWilde (Mar 8, 2012)

gryphonslair99 said:


> Fader Filters vs Traditional ND Filters « Vincent Laforet's Blog



Thanks! That blog confirmed the "less sharp" theory! 

@ Sparky:

I see your point, I'm not sure how often I would plan on stacking them anyway, but its good to know it isn't a guarantee! Nothing worse than relying on something to work and finding out it doesn't!


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## 480sparky (Mar 8, 2012)

OscarWilde said:


> I see your point, I'm not sure how often I would plan on stacking them anyway, but its good to know it isn't a guarantee! Nothing worse than relying on something to work and finding out it doesn't!



Take some test shots, so you'll know where you stand once you get in the field.


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