# need advice on camera upgrade



## ygb (Nov 7, 2014)

a couple of years ago my husband got me a used canon 20d and a tamron 70-200 f2.8 lense. 
I was pretty happy with it, but when I tried to take photos of my girls rhythmic gymnastics competitions  the iso limitations became quite obvious.
exactly a year ago I started looking at a diff camera that would allow me to take action shots in poor lighting conditions and decided to go with 7D, but before I said it out loud my husband snatched a 60D on after thanksgiving sales and gave it to me as a present for Christmas. While 60D was better than 20D at low light I still was shooting darker than I wanted to get the shutter speed a bit up and I didnt really like shooting higher than iso 1600. I love black and white and grain but not on rhythmic gymnastics photos. The color is everything there.

A few other  areas of my beef with 60D are:
1) image quality on high ISO when shooting at the competition or in the house.
2) I like shooting my dogs in action. it could be outside or at the training facility - the light is the most awful there.
but even outside I am having a very hard time tracking my dog running at me with 60D. I dont know if its just me not knowing how to use AI servo mode, the lense or the camera. I read all I could find on using the AI servo mode and I dont know what I might be doing wrong. I  use back button focus and I even tried it with my canon 50mm f1.4 lense and still I didn't like the results, some shots came out sharp but its a lot like hit and miss kind of deal instead of me getting consistent results. it could be that the fact that my dogs are black is part of the issue, but I am definitely are not chaning my dogs
3) I like shooting portraits as well. I like shooting shallow. after getting bunch of out of focus shots I stopped doing " focus and recompose" and started changing my AF points. However, now I feel that I am composing based on the AF point instead of simply worrying about composition. Again, that maybe just my lack of skill and being too green but I am wishing I had more focus points and I am wishing I could select more than just one or all.
4) I like shooting a lot of things:. I would like to try some landscape and I love street photography although I  had been too scared to try. 

So I started thinking that maybe I just have to wait 3 years and try to save for 5d mk 3 and maybe just rent something for a competition weekend( its a last one for one of my girls and I'd like to get some nice shots). 5dmk 3 is way out of my price range and the way things had been going , not sure if 3 years will be enough to save for one. But then I read the review of 7D mk 2 and it seem hit on a lot of things I really wanted ( although some comments on this forum are not as favorable in case of DR). 

So my question is, what would you guys recommend? go with 7d2? 70D?  oh yeah I broke my 60D yesterday so I am back to my 20D.  Hopefully its fixable. so maybe fix my 60D and stick with it and just rent something for a weekend of competition and try to save for 5d mark 3 or maybe buy better lenses instead?
thank you very much for the feedback. sorry the post had been so long.
Yuliya


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## jaomul (Nov 7, 2014)

Have you considered the 6d. It gets bad press for moving subjects because of its simple autofocus, but a friend has one and shoots all sorts of moving targets with great success.

It is even better than a 5d3 at high iso, but cheaper though you will find fullframes work different with your current lenses, not firing as much apparent zoom


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## ygb (Nov 7, 2014)

I looked at 6d last night, but 4.5fps were kind of discouraging. 
I think 60d has higher fps and I miss some shots.
When girls going into the jump there is only one shot when they are in full split in the air. The second before or after is too late.
Same with dogs, when the dog is taking a jump there is one shot when he is just over the jump when the form looks nice. I start the burst as he is going into the jump and often I end up with a shot just before and just after.
So I am a bit wary of 4.5fps.


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## ronlane (Nov 7, 2014)

I wouldn't let the DR talk discourage you from the 7DmkII, just yet anyway.


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## ygb (Nov 7, 2014)

ronlane said:


> I wouldn't let the DR talk discourage you from the 7DmkII, just yet anyway.


I tried researching it a bit last night. its all really mumbo-jumbo to me but it seems I had found an article that says that its not as good on really high ISOs. and I dont really need really high iso, I probably need very decent 6400. I understand that it might be not as good as  1D or 5d mk 3, but it can't be worse than 60D can it? I am not bashing 60D, I might be just too new to it, but to me 60D in good light produces very nice shots, at least for my taste. I haven't really tried printing anything and I would like to.
I went yesterday from "OMG it sounds like a perfect camera for me", to "WHAT?! I am very confused"


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## ronlane (Nov 7, 2014)

There are a lot of reports out there that the 7Dmkii is good with high ISO. It will never compare to the 1D or the 5D or the 6D because they are all full-frame. It should be better than the 60D because it is a newer sensor and is using dual processors.


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## goodguy (Nov 7, 2014)

To get good low light performance full frame is your true real answer.
7D has exactly same low light performance as the 60D as they use same sensor.
70D is very close to the 60D in low light.
According to Tony from a review he made on the 7D II you are looking at 1/3 of a stop better low light performance compared to the 7D I
Getting the 6D will mean a huge jump in low light performance but its AF system is very basic.
Currently the only really good low light performance Canon camera will be the 5D III which I saw is going for reasonable price nowadays, saw it for around 2600$ a couple of days ago on a sale.

Another option is of course jump ship to Nikon the D750 is the perfect camera for you!


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## gsgary (Nov 7, 2014)

ronlane said:


> There are a lot of reports out there that the 7Dmkii is good with high ISO. It will never compare to the 1D or the 5D or the 6D because they are all full-frame. It should be better than the 60D because it is a newer sensor and is using dual processors.


1D is not full frame


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## ygb (Nov 7, 2014)

goodguy said:


> Another option is of course jump ship to Nikon the D750 is the perfect camera for you!


oh man, I dont know about jumping ships:-( I have two lenses left for canon Tamron 70-200 f2.8 and canon 50mm f1.4 
yesterday together with my camera I smashed sigma 18-50 macro, I guess I will not have to worry about replacing that one if I jump ships, but replacing my 70-200 will be way out of my abilities by January first and I wouldnt be able to shoot  the competitions without it. 
damn, this is really hard!

thank you for the advice, I'll chew on it!
Yuliya


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## goodguy (Nov 7, 2014)

ygb said:


> goodguy said:
> 
> 
> > Another option is of course jump ship to Nikon the D750 is the perfect camera for you!
> ...


Good luck


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## ronlane (Nov 7, 2014)

gsgary said:


> ronlane said:
> 
> 
> > There are a lot of reports out there that the 7Dmkii is good with high ISO. It will never compare to the 1D or the 5D or the 6D because they are all full-frame. It should be better than the 60D because it is a newer sensor and is using dual processors.
> ...



I keep forgetting about those 1D's that aren't full frame. Still don't think you can/SHOULD compare a 7DmkII to a 1D camera. The price difference there would cancel out pretty much everything else. IMHO.


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## runnah (Nov 7, 2014)

What is your budget?


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## jaomul (Nov 7, 2014)

Jumping ship in my opinion is an expensive, unnecessary move. Chances are the 7d2 will be better than your 60d. It will be faster and newer and likely better at higher iso, but even guys who bought it are saying around the net that while generally a great camera, it's image quality, in particular noise is better, but not greatly better.

Hoping to shoot at 6400 iso and get similar results to the 60d at 1600 iso is probably a bit unrealistic.

There are 1d Mark 4s around at the moment for approx same price secondhand as a 7d2 is new. To me this would seem like a great balance of speed and image quality. From what I can tell they do hi iso pretty good and the files process well. It might be worth a look


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## BananaRepublic (Nov 7, 2014)

My dad has a tamron all be it 70 200 but it is a mechanical not digital, On an old Nikon. I was sure it had an adapter to fit the camera, is this no longer the case. Although I have Sigma on a Nikon 5100 and That is specified for it so ya.


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## ygb (Nov 7, 2014)

runnah said:


> What is your budget?


budget is very tight. $1800 for 7D2 might be doable, with an effort. $3300 for 5dmk3 is not really in near future. I saw some deals on ebay and some other places for body at around $2600, but I am a bit wary of those deals, there are some bad comments about sellers and $2600 is still way out of my budget. basically something about $2000.


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## runnah (Nov 7, 2014)

ygb said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> > What is your budget?
> ...



Honestly it sounds like the expectations from a camera are too high. Short of some of the highest end lenses and bodies there isn't much that can be done.

Sometimes it's just too dark.


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## ygb (Nov 7, 2014)

this looks pretty good to me.
Pine Siskin with Canon 7D Mark II | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

if my 60D wasn't broken I would put a photo at the same iso from 60D to compare.  if I was abot to shoot at ISO 1600 I will probably need to up it up to 3200 to increase the shutter speed a bit.


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## ygb (Nov 7, 2014)

here  shoot with canon 60D, tamron 70-200 f2.8, ISO 1600.
oh it looks much better because the image got much smaller, dang it.
I guess I'll have to upload it to flickr


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## runnah (Nov 7, 2014)

ygb said:


> this looks pretty good to me.
> Pine Siskin with Canon 7D Mark II | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
> 
> if my 60D wasn't broken I would put a photo at the same iso from 60D to compare.  if I was abot to shoot at ISO 1600 I will probably need to up it up to 3200 to increase the shutter speed a bit.



It wouldn't be a very fair comparison.


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## runnah (Nov 7, 2014)

ygb said:


> here  shoot with canon 60D, tamron 70-200 f2.8, ISO 1600.



What is the exif info?

Are you spot metering? Dialing any exposure comp? What mode are you shooting in?


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## ronlane (Nov 7, 2014)

If you are worried about the low light stuff, consider the 6D. It is full frame, but will be slower on the fps than the 7D2.

I know a couple of professional photographers in my area that are shooting football with the 6D and are happy with the results.


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## ygb (Nov 7, 2014)

runnah said:


> ygb said:
> 
> 
> > this looks pretty good to me.
> ...


why wouldnt it be a fair comparison? granted the lense is different, but still tamron and per some answers here people said that 7d mk 2 has almost same iso capabilities ad 7D which is  nearly identical to 60D? 
did I get this mized up somehow?


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## runnah (Nov 7, 2014)

ygb said:


> why wouldnt it be a fair comparison? granted the lense is different, but still tamron and per some answers here people said that 7d mk 2 has almost same iso capabilities ad 7D which is  nearly identical to 60D?
> did I get this mized up somehow?



Too many variables out of your control. For a true comparison you'd need the same lens, same settings, same subjects and just switch the bodies.


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## ygb (Nov 7, 2014)

runnah said:


> Are you spot metering? Dialing any exposure comp? What mode are you shooting in?



I dont have access to exif now, from what I remember :  evaluative meetering, manual mode. f2.8 ISO 1600 1/500 sec or maybe 1/640sec.


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## ygb (Nov 7, 2014)

runnah said:


> Too many variables out of your control. For a true comparison you'd need the same lens, same settings, same subjects and just switch the bodies.


yeah, you are right. i guess I will have to rent it and see for myself.


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## runnah (Nov 7, 2014)

ygb said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> > Are you spot metering? Dialing any exposure comp? What mode are you shooting in?
> ...



I would never shoot sports in manual mode. Try Tv mode and spot metering. Set the speed to 1/400-1/640. ISO to manual and go from there.


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## ygb (Nov 7, 2014)

ygb said:


> runnah said:
> 
> 
> > Too many variables out of your control. For a true comparison you'd need the same lens, same settings, same subjects and just switch the bodies.
> ...


looks like I can rent it for $100 for a week. I might just do that.


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## ygb (Nov 7, 2014)

runnah said:


> I would never shoot sports in manual mode. Try Tv mode and spot metering. Set the speed to 1/400-1/640. ISO to manual and go from there.


it was in the manual mode because it was purposely slightly underexposed to keep the ISO at 1600. I hardly ever shoot in manual, but I felt in this case I have no surprises when some parameters change unexpectedly.  Since then I had figure out how to set cap for Automatic ISO, but then I didnt know it.


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## JacaRanda (Nov 7, 2014)

I think it's silly to suggest that one particular camera is perfect for you.  No matter what you get you will be sacrificing something depending on your needs. Get a camera that's great in low light, high iso performance and the burst speed and buffer may suck.  For some people, that can be a deal breaker.

2 reviews.

CANON 7D mark II: SETUP, NOISE PERFORMANCE AND REVIEW


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## ygb (Nov 7, 2014)

JacaRanda said:


> I think it's silly to suggest that one particular camera is perfect for you.  No matter what you get you will be sacrificing something depending on your needs. Get a camera that's great in low light, high iso performance and the burst speed and buffer may suck.  For some people, that can be a deal breaker.
> 
> 2 reviews.
> 
> CANON 7D mark II: SETUP, NOISE PERFORMANCE AND REVIEW


the video was very helpful. thank you!


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## ygb (Nov 7, 2014)

ge also made a good very good point about exposing to the right on high ISOs. The same exact thought just finally hit me yesterday and I wanted to validated it on my 60D and that's when I broke it:-(


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## Surfwooder (Nov 20, 2014)

Your shooting situation has changed.  You need a body that will perform in low, (gym and indoor lighting) and photograph fast moving people doing all sorts of stuff.  You will want the body to have a fast shutter, with a very good ISO range.  You have just inscribed the 7D Mark II.  The crop sensor, with the fast, large buffer, and frame rate is made for sports.  The ISO range is wonderfully high with less noise at high numbers.  I use mine for birds in flight, the focus system is unbelievable.  It will track a sparrow, in A1Servo against blue sky.  The only downside, be prepared to look at a lot of shots in PP, at 10 f/second.


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## Paul Josaph (Nov 25, 2014)

gsgary said:


> ronlane said:
> 
> 
> > There are a lot of reports out there that the 7Dmkii is good with high ISO. It will never compare to the 1D or the 5D or the 6D because they are all full-frame. It should be better than the 60D because it is a newer sensor and is using dual processors.
> ...


is it so?


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## gsgary (Nov 25, 2014)

Paul Josaph said:


> gsgary said:
> 
> 
> > ronlane said:
> ...


Yes it is 1.3 crop 1Ds is full frame


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## iolair (Dec 4, 2014)

From your shooting needs (and assuming staying with Canon), I think you really do need the 7D mark II - primarily for the focusing system, to keep up with gymnastics and your dogs.  From the sample images I've seen it's fairly acceptable up to ISO 6400.

You wouldn't match the 7D mark II's focusing system if you moved away from Canon, but you would likely get better low-light / high ISO performance.  (Not that image quality matters if you didn't get the shot in focus).


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## ygb (Dec 4, 2014)

iolair said:


> From your shooting needs (and assuming staying with Canon), I think you really do need the 7D mark II - primarily for the focusing system, to keep up with gymnastics and your dogs.  From the sample images I've seen it's fairly acceptable up to ISO 6400.
> 
> You wouldn't match the 7D mark II's focusing system if you moved away from Canon, but you would likely get better low-light / high ISO performance.  (Not that image quality matters if you didn't get the shot in focus).



Thank you. It suppose to arrive today!  I was very tempted switching to something like Nikon's D750, but that also mean that I would have to replace my tamron 70-200mm, because without that I cant shoot gymnastics and season is starting next month and I simply cant afford replacing camera and 70-200 lens. I am really disappointed that Canon has no match to  D750. I am sure I dont have to have 10 fps and that greatest focusing system as 7dii, but something in between 6D and 5Diii would have been nice. Hopefully, I will not be disappointed with my purchase.


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## goodguy (Dec 4, 2014)

ygb said:


> iolair said:
> 
> 
> > From your shooting needs (and assuming staying with Canon), I think you really do need the 7D mark II - primarily for the focusing system, to keep up with gymnastics and your dogs.  From the sample images I've seen it's fairly acceptable up to ISO 6400.
> ...


First congrats on your new camera and NO, I don't think you will be disappointed with it, it might not be the best camera in the world but I am sure the 7D II will be excellent.
I do have a feeling the next 6D will be close to the D750 and would probably be the camera you would have chosen if it was available now.
But then what the heck do I know


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## ygb (Dec 5, 2014)

goodguy said:


> First congrats on your new camera and NO, I don't think you will be disappointed with it, it might not be the best camera in the world but I am sure the 7D II will be excellent.
> I do have a feeling the next 6D will be close to the D750 and would probably be the camera you would have chosen if it was available now.
> But then what the heck do I know


It came! And my husband hid it for 3 weeks:-(((
I also have that feeling that 6d mk ii will be what I would like, but I know even less than you I just hope it doesn't come out two months from now or I will be a bit dissappinted. I did concider waiting to see if they announce it in a couple of months before buying anything, but my Husband told me I am insane and the place where I work just paid me a bonus and told me to go buy a camera 
I think 6d would have handled gymnastics just fine, it's not very demanding on autofocus, I think. I didn't had lots of out of focus shots in fact I got plenty of great shots last season with 60d, I just wasn't happy about the noise at times especially on crops. I might just rent one for a weekend when girls are going to nationals in June  and compare. 
Shooting dogs is a whole diff story, so I am sure 7dii will be great for that. I can't wait to test it out!!
I am hoping a couple years down the road to be able to add 6dmkii as a second body.
Yuliya


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## goodguy (Dec 5, 2014)

ygb said:


> goodguy said:
> 
> 
> > First congrats on your new camera and NO, I don't think you will be disappointed with it, it might not be the best camera in the world but I am sure the 7D II will be excellent.
> ...


Well Yuliya if I was you no one would be able to stop me from getting my 7D II, I would tell my wife if she hid it that if I am not getting it NOW I am going to buy another one and she can keep it to herself LOL and yes I would go and buy another one, and she knows I would 
When it comes to my passions best advise is don't stand in my way 
From all reviews I read the 7D II is impressive in low light so you will be happy and you do get the crop sensor factor for the longer range shots.
Saying that I bought a full sensor camera about a month ago and I must tell you I don't see myself going crop sensor, but since you never tasted the sweet FF nectar then you will be just fine.

Enjoy your new camera and do share with us how happy you are with it once you are actually "getting" it


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## ygb (Dec 5, 2014)

goodguy said:


> Enjoy your new camera and do share with us how happy you are with it once you are actually "getting" it


well, I was seriously considering taking it, but when I came home the kids were so excited that they knew what I got for Christmas I didnt want to kill it.
I held it in my hands for about 10 min and tested my tamron with it just to make sure no major compatibility issues ( didnt notice any at first glance) and put it back in the box.
sigh:-(


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## goodguy (Dec 5, 2014)

ygb said:


> goodguy said:
> 
> 
> > Enjoy your new camera and do share with us how happy you are with it once you are actually "getting" it
> ...


You are a better person then I am! 
I would be playing with it and that's that LOL


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