# Never enough light with Soligor zoom



## joel.hunter (Mar 15, 2017)

I have a Soligor 85-205mm f/3.8 macro that I'm mounting to my Olympus OM-1n. I've heard decent things about the lens and this one is in really good shape, but I can never get enough light to use it. 
On a bright sunny day, 400 speed film (fastest I can get under $20 a roll), maximum aperture, set at 85mm, with a full second of exposure - the light meter needle is sitting at rock bottom and photos will come out horrifically underexposed. The meter works great on my other lenses. Is this something I should expect from this lens or is something else weird going on with it? 
Thanks.


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## Derrel (Mar 15, 2017)

Huh...sounds like the lens diaphragm might be malfunctioning. Can you peer through the front and see if thre iris is closed mostly? It sounds to me like the lens might be accidentally stuck with the iris closed down to f/22 or thereabouts. Something is VERY odd about this though: in bright sunlight, f/16 at ISO 400 film should give a good exposure at 1/400 second, according to the Sunny 16 Rule. The fact that a one-second exposure does not give a super-bright, over-exposed image is puzzling.

You say the meter works with other lenses; but how do photos come out with other lenses? Is the shutter working properly? Does the camera take good photos with other lenses? Are the mirror and the shutter in proper synchronization? We need a few more details to cross-reference against, like how well the camera works. Is the lens clean and clear inside?


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## joel.hunter (Mar 15, 2017)

I've never had luck with the sunny 16 rule, even on my 50mm f/1.8. Closing the aperture much beyond f/11 means shutters too slow for hand-held use. However, it still takes awesome pictures with both my other lenses (the 50/1.8 and 100/2.8). It's clean.
The lens appears to function correctly - I can adjust the aperture and using the little aperture tab I can look down the lens and see it close to different diameters as it should. Lens is very clean and clear.
It is quite a long lens and being a macro zoom I imagine it has a lot of elements, so I expected to have to bump the shutter speed down a couple stops, but nothing like this. How can I tell if the mirror and shutter are in sync? The camera produces good photos so I would assume they are.


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## table1349 (Mar 15, 2017)

Kodak Professional Portra 800 Color Negative Film 1451855 B&H


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## joel.hunter (Mar 15, 2017)

gryphonslair99 said:


> Kodak Professional Portra 800 Color Negative Film 1451855 B&H


What I don't understand is I've been using a Vivitar 80-200 macro with 200 speed film just fine in cloudy conditions.
And, even if I set the camera at 800, I'm still shooting at 1/4 or 1/8 with a wide open aperture just to get a decent exposure. That doesn't seem right to me.

Edit: walked outside and tried with camera, changed aforementioned shutter speeds.

Also, with customs, shipping, and exchange it comes out to $45 Canadian for one roll. For that much I can almost buy 10 rolls of UltraMax 400 36exp.


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## Derrel (Mar 15, 2017)

joel.hunter said:


> gryphonslair99 said:
> 
> 
> > Kodak Professional Portra 800 Color Negative Film 1451855 B&H
> ...



YES--something seems really WEIRD about this! I am at a loss. If the camera works well with other lenses, then one would assume the mirror and shutter are in good synch. If the camera works fine with the Vivitar 80-200mm macro zoom with 200 speed film, then something is really odd here. Bright sun, wide-open aperture, and 1/60 to 1/30 second makes no sense at all!
******

I thought about this for a bit and re-read what you wrote in your OP. I am now wondering if the lens is actually *connecting to* the light metering system properly. A lens has to send the max-aperture signal to the camera, so the merter "knows" what f/stop is say, three clicks down from wide-open. Regardless: if the meter and lens are not communicating, that could affect the reading the meter thinks is proper.


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## joel.hunter (Mar 15, 2017)

No clue. Maybe next time I am in Victoria, the nearest big city, I'll take the lens to a camera repair shop and have them look at it. I don't really get it. Oh well. It's almost like there is a neutral density filter inside the lens.


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## Derrel (Mar 15, 2017)

Is the lens clean and clear, or is it hazed up inside, or perhaps filled with fungus?


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## joel.hunter (Mar 15, 2017)

Derrel said:


> joel.hunter said:
> 
> 
> > gryphonslair99 said:
> ...


Hmm. They communicate some, because the light meter will actually move. But, still, what the meter says seems to correlate with the produced image - I thought before that maybe the meter was lying to me, so I went out and took a bunch of photos with different settings and they're all underexposed to about the degree that the meter said they would be, so I'm not entirely sure about that. How could I tell for sure?


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## joel.hunter (Mar 15, 2017)

Derrel said:


> Is the lens clean and clear, or is it hazed up inside, or perhaps filled with fungus?


It appears to be my clearest lens both on the front and rear elements, and looking through the camera.


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## Derrel (Mar 15, 2017)

My only thought is that the diapragm mechanism in the lens itself is not 100% properly functional, and that if you set the lens aperture ring to wide-oepn at f/3.8, that it is actually closing down to f/22 or so when the picture is taken. There could be a five and one-third or six and one-third differential between wide-open metering and the smallest aperture (depending on minaperture being f/22 or f/32). I am not sure how Oly works the diaphragm mechanism: perhaps the diaphragm actuation arm or pin or whatever is bent, OR the mechanism does not work?

Do a test, and see for yourself if setting the lens to f/5.6 produces the same size aperture on multiple shots. Open the camera back, and shoot some blanks while holding the camera up to a window without film, and set the shutter to 1 second. Visually inspect to see that f/5.6 delivers the same-sized image for three frames, then close down to f/16, and see if it responds with a smaller hole.

It's possible that the diaphragm mechanism in the lens is stopping down to a very small aperture, like f/16 or f/22,* no matter what the "indicated" aperture is on the lens barrel*. The fact that the meter itself seems to read "LOW" makes me think there's a problem with the lens, and how it is supposed to connect to the meter and possibly, also a diaphragm mechanism that is no longer working properly.


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## joel.hunter (Mar 15, 2017)

Derrel said:


> My only thought is that the diapragm mechanism in the lens itself is not 100% properly functional, and that if you set the lens aperture ring to wide-oepn at f/3.8, that it is actually closing down to f/22 or so when the picture is taken. There could be a five and one-third or six and one-third differential between wide-open metering and the smallest aperture (depending on minaperture being f/22 or f/32). I am not sure how Oly works the diaphragm mechanism: perhaps the diaphragm actuation arm or pin or whatever is bent, OR the mechanism does not work?
> 
> Do a test, and see for yourself if setting the lens to f/5.6 produces the same size aperture on multiple shots. Open the camera back, and shoot some blanks while holding the camera up to a window without film, and set the shutter to 1 second. Visually inspect to see that f/5.6 delivers the same-sized image for three frames, then close down to f/16, and see if it responds with a smaller hole.
> 
> It's possible that the diaphragm mechanism in the lens is stopping down to a very small aperture, like f/16 or f/22,* no matter what the "indicated" aperture is on the lens barrel*. The fact that the meter itself seems to read "LOW" makes me think there's a problem with the lens, and how it is supposed to connect to the meter and possibly, also a diaphragm mechanism that is no longer working properly.



There's a little arm on the back where the lens mounts that I assume the camera moves to operate the aperture. You can also move it by hand on the side of the lens. When I do that, the aperture seems to react properly, and the arm moves as it should. It does not look damaged. I'll try to do what you have described, if I understand correctly. I may also put the camera in bulb mode, look down the lens, and see what the aperture ring (referred to as the iris?) does. I can't see how the lens connects to the meter, I always thought that the meter simply sat in the body of the camera and reacted to the light that came through the lens, independent of it.


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## Derrel (Mar 15, 2017)

The aperture ring is on the lens barrel itself, maked with the f/stops or apertures. The iris, or diaphragm, is the internal bladed-leaf mechanism that creates the various sized apertures.

 Oly uses an open-aperture metering system (I looked that up), so the lens "tells" the camera meter what the maximum f/stop of the lens actually is; the system then knows what "one click down" represents, and so on. This is a mechanical system/connection in cameras of the OM-1 era. I'm not sure how Oly OM-mount lenses convey their aperture information to the meter.

I DO know that I have one Olmpus lens, and when I pout a Canon mount adapter on it, it CLOSES DOWN the iris, by depressing the lens stop-down ring, which is a small mechanical tab.Perhaps this lens has been ADAPTED from another mount, or is a T-mount lens that currently has an Oly rear mount on it?

if the lens has a SIDE-mounted stop-down tab, that makes me think it might have been adapted from a native M42 thread mount. The Oly stop-down mechanism is on the rear, mounting side of the lkes, IIMSMC.

I dunno....that's all I got.


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## joel.hunter (Mar 15, 2017)

I think that's what the tab is for. That's how I use it - set up the shot, then adjust my exposure my pressing the tab to close the aperture and seeing what the light meter does. That method works awesome with the 50 and 100 and all my photos turn out well-exposed. The light meter does not move when you just turn the ring, like it does on my dad's Pentax ME Super - which does not have the little aperture tab.


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## joel.hunter (Mar 15, 2017)

Derrel said:


> The aperture ring is on the lens barrel itself, maked with the f/stops or apertures. The iris, or diaphragm, is the internal bladed-leaf mechanism that creates the various sized apertures.
> 
> Oly uses an open-aperture metering system (I looked that up), so the lens "tells" the camera meter what the maximum f/stop of the lens actually is; the system then knows what "one click down" represents, and so on. This is a mechanical system/connection in cameras of the OM-1 era. I'm not sure how Oly OM-mount lenses convey their aperture information to the meter.
> 
> ...


It has the side mounted tab yes but it's also on the rear of the lens so it sticks into the camera. The tab is in the same place as on my 50, albeit on the 50 it's a button you push inward. No clue. It says "OM" on the back and I can't find any evidence of there being an adapter on it (although the rear element is an inch into the lens from the mounting surface). I'll have to take it to a repair shop and see what they say. Thanks for the tips and knowledge so far - I have definitely learned a bit.


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## tirediron (Mar 15, 2017)

Victoria Camera Service on Pembroke St.


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## joel.hunter (Mar 15, 2017)

tirediron said:


> Victoria Camera Service on Pembroke St.


Awesome thanks, I was just about to look up repair shops in Victoria haha. I don't think there are any decent ones in Nanaimo. I'll head down there next week on my days off and visit some buddies in uni I suppose. 
Also, a little off topic, are there any good shops for 35mm lenses/filters/etc other than Camera Traders? They never seem to have any good Olympus stuff. Looking for 49mm filters specifically and don't want to pay $30 in extra fees to buy from B&H.


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## tirediron (Mar 15, 2017)

No, unfortunately, they're it now.  Keep an eye on Craig's List' there's a fair amount of good junk that shows up there.  You can also call Kerrisdale and ask them if they'll keep an eye out, but their used line mostly runs to Nikon & Canon digital era stuff.


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## joel.hunter (Mar 15, 2017)

tirediron said:


> No, unfortunately, they're it now.  Keep an eye on Craig's List' there's a fair amount of good junk that shows up there.  You can also call Kerrisdale and ask them if they'll keep an eye out, but their used line mostly runs to Nikon & Canon digital era stuff.


Ah darn, okay. Thanks for the recommendations


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## astroNikon (Mar 15, 2017)

point a flash light into the camera and see if the light meter changes.  Cover up the flashlight with some such as a white paper plate and thinner things to see if it reacts to moderate to bright light.  

I'm assuming the images are properly centered on the film and the image isn't skewed at all.
Is there any lens flange when in the camera that could be blocking light to the light meter?

fyi .. haven't touched a film camera in ages, just helping troubleshoot.


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## joel.hunter (Mar 15, 2017)

astroNikon said:


> point a flash light into the camera and see if the light meter changes.  Cover up the flashlight with some such as a white paper plate and thinner things to see if it reacts to moderate to bright light.
> 
> I'm assuming the images are properly centered on the film and the image isn't skewed at all.
> Is there any lens flange when in the camera that could be blocking light to the light meter?
> ...


I don't thiiiink so. Image not skewed and they are centered. It reacts to a flashlight alright, but the difference between the covered flashlight and the flashlight by itself isn't as much as I thought it would be. What else I find interesting is the meter doesn't change very much between 200iso and 1600 (on the camera dial). With my other two lenses the difference between 200 and 800 can be significant.


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## compur (Mar 15, 2017)

I suggest trying:

When you actuate the the lens aperture by hand does it move sluggishly or "snap" from position to position?

Then mount it on your camera (without any film) and open the back and look through from behind as you trip the shutter at different aperture settings. Use a slow shutter speed so you can see what goes on during the exposure cycle. See if the aperture is opening/closing as it should (without sluggish movement or other weirdness) and make sure the mirror isn't hanging up on the back of the lens.


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## joel.hunter (Mar 15, 2017)

It moves pretty slowly, actually, yeah.. when set to F/22 it takes a while (maybe almost a full second? Hard to guess) to get there. If that is the issue, wouldn't it over-expose photos and not affect the meter? I'll try to see if maybe the mirror is getting hung up.


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## joel.hunter (Mar 15, 2017)

Alright so the diaphragm does move awfully slowly, but I don't understand how I would then end up with an under exposure issue - that seems backwards to me? Maybe someone can explain how that works..


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## Derrel (Mar 15, 2017)

This could solve the issue! Soligor 85-205mm f3.8 OM lens for Olympus manual focus - zoom  | eBay


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## compur (Mar 15, 2017)

joel.hunter said:


> Alright so the diaphragm does move awfully slowly, but I don't understand how I would then end up with an under exposure issue - that seems backwards to me? Maybe someone can explain how that works..



Well, it wouldn't affect exposure when set at max aperture since the aperture wouldn't have to move  but it does make the lens pretty much unusable at any other aperture. 

We don't yet know why it's underexposing at max aperture though.


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## compur (Mar 15, 2017)

Derrel said:


> This could solve the issue! Soligor 85-205mm f3.8 OM lens for Olympus manual focus - zoom  | eBay



I had one of those once upon a time. It was branded Vivitar but I believe it's the same lens. I used it on a Nikon FM.


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