# Took a pic of this model, what can be improved



## ph0toe (Dec 9, 2019)

obviously i could cropped out the legs as i was capturing him using AI focus. my lowest aperture was 4.0 on the lens, so that's the best i could do with shallow depth of field. 

can you critique it, and also give me some pointers for improving this image on software like photoshop?

Imgur

thanks!


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## Sharpshooterr (Dec 10, 2019)

ph0toe said:


> obviously i could cropped out the legs as i was capturing him using AI focus. my lowest aperture was 4.0 on the lens, so that's the best i could do with shallow depth of field.
> 
> can you critique it, and also give me some pointers for improving this image on software like photoshop?
> 
> ...


Hey toe, are your posts real? I don’t wanna put time into answers if you’re just trolling?!
SS


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## ph0toe (Dec 10, 2019)

Hi Sharpshooterr. 

Yes, my posts are real. I subscribe to this forum because I thoroughly want to learn and hone my photography skills, not troll. What is even the point of that. 
Anyways, I realized some my post could be interpreted otherwise, but I promise I mean well. This post I definitely want image critiquing & feedback. thanks!


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## Braineack (Dec 10, 2019)

Photoshop will not improve your photography.


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## 480sparky (Dec 10, 2019)

OK, you asked.

Awkward pose.  Yellow sweater with hoodie is too overpowering.  Face is dark.  Background is busy. Black coat is too small.  Lighting is harsh.  Eyes are squinting. 

In short, it looks like a "This is my buddy in the city" snapshot.


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## Derrel (Dec 10, 2019)

The urban background is extremely busy. If you really want to improve this I would select him and feather the selection about 3 pixels and then do a radial blur on the background, in an effort to sublimate the backgrounds busy-ness. A better idea would be to reshoot with a smoother background with fewer distractions.


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## ph0toe (Dec 10, 2019)

480sparky said:


> OK, you asked.
> 
> Awkward pose.  Yellow sweater with hoodie is too overpowering.  Face is dark.  Background is busy. Black coat is too small.  Lighting is harsh.  Eyes are squinting.
> 
> In short, it looks like a "This is my buddy in the city" snapshot.




Thanks!! 

Will a lower aperture help with a busy background? 

How should the model pose? 

As far as the choice of attire, is it a dealbreaker? 

Will lowering the contrast on the hoodie help?
Will upping the exposure on face help?

I know the commenter above said photoshop doesn't help a poor photograph, so I guess what can i do to get a better photograph?

The subject was facing the sun which was the best way to lit the face. My camera read the correct exposure meter???


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## ph0toe (Dec 10, 2019)

Derrel said:


> The urban background is extremely busy. If you really want to improve this I would select him and feather the selection about 3 pixels and then do a radial blur on the background, in an effort to sublimate the backgrounds busy-ness. A better idea would be to reshoot with a smoother background with fewer distractions.



Thanks,  I will try this. Is a lower aperture the only way to blur a busy background pre post?


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## Derrel (Dec 10, 2019)

Yes a wider aperture opening such as 2.8 or f/2 would help, and a longer lens focal length would narrow the background area behind the subject and would help to defocus the background.


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## ph0toe (Dec 10, 2019)

my lens go up to 105mm. Will i need something longer than that?


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## 480sparky (Dec 10, 2019)

Both a longer focal length and a wider aperture, if possible, will help defocus the background.


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## Designer (Dec 11, 2019)

ph0toe said:


> obviously i could cropped out the legs as i was capturing him using AI focus. my lowest aperture was 4.0 on the lens, so that's the best i could do with shallow depth of field.
> 
> can you critique it, and also give me some pointers for improving this image on software like photoshop?


Poor pose, poor background, poor exposure, yellow is saturated to the ends of the earth, But other than that, it has possibilities.

If you want to blur the background more when using f/4, then allow for more physical separation between your subject and the background.  Also, by choosing a different background, such as trees, for instance, it will be less distracting.

Did Imgur apply some strange "art" filter or what happened?  The man appears to be somewhat underexposed, yet his yellow hoodie is in command.  Why is that?  If you want to fiddle with this shot in photoshop, decrease the yellow.


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## ph0toe (Dec 11, 2019)

Thanks! Do you know how much distance should be in place between subject and foreground? a ft , 2ft? or does it depend on the lens used? 

I received the image as a raw file, uploaded on imgur and that was what it showed. The hoodie worn was quite bright, so it might just be that.


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## Designer (Dec 11, 2019)

ph0toe said:


> Thanks! Do you know how much distance should be in place between subject and foreground? a ft , 2ft? or does it depend on the lens used?
> 
> I received the image as a raw file, uploaded on imgur and that was what it showed. The hoodie worn was quite bright, so it might just be that.


I cannot simply tell you how much distance, without knowing everything else about the shoot, but you can get that information by consulting a DOF calculator, which you can find online.

If you consider all the factors involved in producing blur (both background and foreground) you will see that distance from camera to subject is one factor, and distance from the subject (the part that is in focus) to the background is another factor.  

To increase blur in the background, have the background farther away.  

Yes, it does somewhat depend on the lens, because both focal length and aperture are involved.

You received this as a raw file.  Did you do the photography yourself?  Is this your photograph?  Did your camera not generate a jpeg file as well?  Most cameras will generate a jpeg, even one that is embedded within the Raw file so it becomes viewable.  People cannot "see" a Raw file, so that is why there is a jpeg in it.  

You have inferred that you had not seen the image until you uploaded it to imgur.  Did I understand you correctly?  How did you acquire the raw file?  

If the highly-saturated yellow color of the garment was simply that bright, why are not all colors equally as saturated?  In other words, the other colors in the photograph are somewhat muted compared to the yellow.


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## wfooshee (Dec 11, 2019)

Besides the overpowering yellow of the hoodie, the image is tilted; the buildings aren't vertical.

It's underexposed, again probably because of that yellow. If you were using matrix metering, the camera took in the entire scene and averaged the exposure. You'd need a spot meter on his face, I think. Also, focus on his face. I think the face is slightly out of focus, while the logo on the hoodie is pretty sharp.

Generally, this is just a snapshot of your bud in the 'hood.

As for the squint, have him keep his eyes closed while you count down to the shutter. He should open his eyes just as you click the shutter, and his eyes won't have time to react to the light, i.e. squint, before the image is captured.


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## 480sparky (Dec 11, 2019)

ph0toe said:


> .... as i was capturing him .......





ph0toe said:


> ..........I received the image as a raw file...........



Huh?


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## Soocom1 (Dec 11, 2019)

Something i learned from a friend who did ALOT of posing.
DON'T FORCE IT!

Allow the model to be natural unless there is a specific intent to the pose. (Showing jewelry or a certain kind of message.) Otherwise, natural stance is the call.

In the photo what I see is an intent to show something that is highly muddled in message.

The first thing to do is ask and that you did.
Now.
The various techniques told to you I would head. But keep in mind that if the intent is just a city scene, develop an intended message of the photo.
What is the end game? What are you looking to express?
Let it evolve from there.


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## zombiesniper (Dec 11, 2019)

I still think you're over your head at this point.
You still haven't learned to take a clean image and get the exposure correct. You NEED to work on this first. Once that is done only then can you really learn about other aspects of taking a good photo. You can have the most interesting subject in the world but if it's underexposed and out of focus you'll still end up with a less than average photo.

If this is your image can you provide the settings used.
Shutter, you stated F4, ISO
Shutter priority, Aperture Priority Manual etc.
Focal length the lens was at.
Metering mode.



ph0toe said:


> I received the image as a raw file, uploaded on imgur and that was what it showed.


Not possible as imgur doesn't allow a raw format.


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## ph0toe (Dec 11, 2019)

I miswritten. To clarified, my camera loads both jpeg and raw. Raw was shown in photoshop when I unloaded it. the pic uploaded was jpeg with no adjustment / filters changed.

I don't remember as I had took several different shots with different settings. 
Some shot were at F4, Iso 100-200 at TV
other were shot at iso 100-200 at shutter speed of about 1/500 at AV
for manual, i believe I shot iso 100-200, shutter speed of about 1000 and F4

I had put my af drive to single shooting before moving to Ai focus when subject was moving 
focal length was always between 35-50mm

spot metering was used and it was always focused right in the middle capturing the subject eyes.


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## ph0toe (Dec 11, 2019)

wfooshee said:


> Besides the overpowering yellow of the hoodie, the image is tilted; the buildings aren't vertical.
> 
> It's underexposed, again probably because of that yellow. If you were using matrix metering, the camera took in the entire scene and averaged the exposure. You'd need a spot meter on his face, I think. Also, focus on his face. I think the face is slightly out of focus, while the logo on the hoodie is pretty sharp.
> 
> ...




what do you mean by that? 

thanks for the suggestion. I had put the spot meter on his eyes as that is the general rule, weird that the logo was much sharper than the face.


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## Designer (Dec 11, 2019)

ph0toe said:


> spot metering was used and it was always focused right in the middle capturing the subject eyes.





ph0toe said:


> I had put the spot meter on his eyes as that is the general rule, weird that the logo was much sharper than the face.


The camera's light meter spot may or may not be at the focus area.  Check the user's manual to find out how to spot meter and select the focus area.


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## 480sparky (Dec 11, 2019)

wfooshee said:


> ......*Generally, this is just a snapshot of your bud in the 'hood....*
> .....





ph0toe said:


> ....what do you mean by that? ...........



Same thing I meant.  It's a _snapshot_.  There's nothing posed about this.  The guy is standing there, doing something, and you clicked the shutter.  Or, _someone_ did.


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## Sharpshooterr (Dec 11, 2019)

ph0toe said:


> obviously i could cropped out the legs as i was capturing him using AI focus. my lowest aperture was 4.0 on the lens, so that's the best i could do with shallow depth of field.
> 
> can you critique it, and also give me some pointers for improving this image on software like photoshop?
> Imgur
> thanks!



Toe, hey at least I got your ball rolling!
Sorry I couldn’t get back very quickly. 
You’ve gotten a lot of advice but plenty of it from people that have obviously never shot a model. 
First, I’ve only shot a few men so I don’t really know what a good, strong male pose is! LoL 
But I’ve shot hundreds of female models so I do know shooting models. 
About you’re equipment, f4 at 105 is not so bad. Any longer and you gotta start getting pretty far back for a full body shot like you have. 
Remember, a lens produces its strongest out of focus(OOF) backgrounds at its minimum focus distance. So get as close as you can and still have the cropping you want but better to crop it in-camera than later in post. Also since most of this stuff winds up posted on Instagram, make sure you have the room on the sides for either a 1:1 or a 4:5 aspect ratio!!! 
Look for a cheap 50mm 1.8 lens, sometimes called a “nifty fifty”, because they are very good and very cheap, like less than a $100 for a used one. That lens can completely obliterate the background if you’re not to far away. 
Your pose. The pose is not so bad. It’s a little award looking but with a better crop it’s ok. 
The yellow hoodie. If you’re gonna shoot a yellow NB hoodie, well what other color can it be? It HAS to be yellow! LoL 
Ask a good portrait photographer and the shot is actually technically quite good. What makes it so? I look at the jacket, the hoodie and the jeans and there is no blowout and I can see all the stitching and the fabric in all of it. That’s a good portrait. Yes the background is busy but at least not loud. The yellow hoodie is very strong and draws our eyes from the busy background to the model. That’s a good thing. Yes the eyes are squinting but that’s  just an inexperienced model/photographer. The face is well lit with no strong shadows, that good. 
In those situations I give my models a 3 count. They know to open their eyes, suck it in and hold till the lights go off! LoL 
Yes I would have picked a better, less busy background. Posing a model is your responsibility, not the model’s. You tell them what you want and the model hopefully executes that. I don’t know anybody that shoots relaxed, everything is posed, even a relaxed look is posed as such. 
That look is a little grunge, nothing wrong with that, at least his pants are above his knees, but nothing wrong with that either!!! LoL 
If you want I’ll crop it in my phone and post it. 
Let’s see if my Instagram link will work, if so, check it out!
instagram @magiclightimages
Glad to help out. 
John


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## Derrel (Dec 11, 2019)

A really strong crop makes this a much better picture I looked at it in Snapseed on my phone and cropped it quite heavily and it was much better but then you could more clearly see that the face is not in good Focus


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## DanOstergren (Dec 12, 2019)

I think it's a good start. The styling on your model is interesting and eye catching, and I think it harmonizes well with the location you used. The lighting is good too; I can tell that you were using direct sunlight, which in my opinion is a type of lighting that takes skill in order to utilize well. The exposure looks good to me, and I think you also did a good job using the camera settings to capture enough details in both the subject and the location to capture somewhat of a story. As for editing that could improve the shot, the only thing that I can see that would be improved by editing is to remove the traffic light post that's intersecting with the top of his head. Otherwise I don't think this photo needs much post production; perhaps a crop that cuts off a couple of inches below his fingers for a less awkward composition.

Here are a few of my critiques: As I pointed out before, there is a traffic light post intersecting with the top of his head; in the future try to position yourself and the model in ways so you can use details of a location to frame your subject rather than intersecting with them. That may not apply to every photo, but I think in this case it would have improved the shot.

This image reads to me as a fashion image, and as such I think you could try getting the entire outfit in the frame, head to toe. In this image I feel as if the way that he's cropped at his ankles is awkward and makes for an unpleasant feeling while viewing the photo.

All in all, it's not bad, but it's not great. I think you are going in a good direction though, and the more you shoot the more you're going to develop you skill and vision. As for anyone  telling you that you're "in over your head", *do not listen to that garbage*. Keep up the good work.


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## ph0toe (Dec 12, 2019)

thank you to all for taking their time to write on this post. I welcome all feedback, good or bad. 



> I think it harmonizes well with the location you used



@DanOstergren, you don't think the background is distracting in the slightest? 




> position yourself and the model in ways so you can use details of a location to frame your subject rather than intersecting with them.



Can you elaborate more on this? do you mean using rule of thirds to line up areas so subject won't intersect with objects in background?



> This image reads to me as a fashion image, and as such I think you could try getting the entire outfit in the frame, head to toe



you nailed it. This was the exact subject I was trying to evoke. Problem is if i fill in the entire outfit in frame it'll show more of the background and the sides leaving the image to appear flat. maybe I'm wrong? I'm working with a full frame camera.



Thank you so much for your positive feedback. Love your work btw!


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## NGH (Dec 12, 2019)

I'm not a portrait photographer and not a fashion photographer either so you can take my thoughts based upon that.
IMO This is an okay image and a good attempt; just getting your first shot with a model done is a big step that many would shy away from.
I agree with some of the other comments that the pose looks odd and I think it's the position of the legs that throws it.
Regarding the background; yes it's busy but if you are after an urban fashion feel it is going to be; I would look carefully though at the verticals of the buildings as they are far from vertical and that is making the whole image skew - some of that can be improved in PS or LR.
It may be worth trying a reflector to bounce some light on his face to reduce the shadows and that would also allow you to face him away from the sun - depending on whether that fits your goal.

As someone else said; it is worth stating what your intention was with a shot that you want critique on and also as much information about the exposure settings and equipment as that will help people help you (you should be able to extract all of that from that data in the file via LR or PS)


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## ph0toe (Dec 12, 2019)

Thanks, I didn't know I could extract the setting from my photo using ps or Ls, I will certaintly keep this in mind next time I post. 

I am also taking all your other advices as well. thanks for writing and giving your input!


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## Christie Photo (Dec 13, 2019)

My first reaction was that I didn't know _why _the photograph was made.  Is it meant to be more than a snapshot of a friend while on a walk in the city?

I think the background is soft enough.  Zoomed to 105mm, your lens should be fine.  The only other way to soften the background with that lens is to move in closer to your model.



ph0toe said:


> I know the commenter above said photoshop doesn't help a poor photograph



What he said was Photoshop will not improve your *photography*.  A photograph can be improved with Photoshop, but not your *photography*....  your ability to make photographs.  Continue to learn to get the results in the camera.

If this is not a photo of the yellow hoodie, then you need to do additional photography.

Try to develop your ability to "see light."  This image is lighted with a nearly perfectly flat light source...  very much like an on-camera flash.  Even IF it's meant to be a shot of the hoodie, you'll communicate more shape and texture with your main light off axis.

Good effort!  Enjoy the journey!  It's very gratifying as you develop your skill.

-Pete


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## DanOstergren (Dec 13, 2019)

Christie Photo said:


> My first reaction was that I didn't know _why _the photograph was made.  Is it meant to be more than a snapshot of a friend while on a walk in the city?
> 
> I think the background is soft enough.  Zoomed to 105mm, your lens should be fine.  The only other way to soften the background with that lens is to move in closer to your model.
> 
> ...


I disagree about your comment on this being poor lighting. I personally think it's quite good, and was also a well executed use of a difficult to use light source. As for not knowing why the image was taken, the OP has commented saying that this is a fashion image, and to me it translates very much as a fashion image.


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## Derrel (Dec 13, 2019)

I looked at the photo again tonight on my phone and I think you could greatly improve it by cropping in more tightly. In my opinion this would look best as a half body pose cropped at the bottom just a little bit below his hands, or at the mid thigh. As shown initially I don't like your crop below the knees and above the feet. I think I would crop a little bit of space off of the left side so he has a little bit more room to visually look into. As shown, I think he is a little bit too far to the right side of the frame, and by eliminating some of the open space on the left of the frame, you would improve the compositional weight of his body within the frame space.


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## Christie Photo (Dec 13, 2019)

DanOstergren said:


> I disagree about your comment on this being poor lighting.



Who said that?  Poor lighting?


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## Dao (Dec 14, 2019)

Things may help before the click

First thing I will do is learn this

"Photography composition - give subject with space"  <-- Google this
Better do it when you compose the photo.  But you can try to crop it afterward.


2nd thing will be background selection.  Regardless whether you have a fast lens or long lens.  Learn and practice more about subject and background.  Now you know what you lens can do, try more and see.  That includes where you want to place your subject and the camera.
On top of that, pay attention to objects surround  your subject.  Like the traffic light above the subject head, or the face (light color object) and white hat right next to the shoulders of the subject.  Those are distraction, they draw the viewer attention away from your subject.

Try to level the photo.  Pay attention at the vertical lines in the photo.  You can also do that during POST, but try to do it before you press the shutter button.

Take a look at the scene and see which meter mode is better.  Sometimes, I will spot meter an object in the frame I believe it will give me better result and then lock the exposure, recompose, focus and take the photo.   Grass, palm of a hand, sometimes face or gray rock (depends on situation) maybe my choice of subject I meter with.


Of course, typical POST is also important. 
- Cropping, rotation or perspective distortion adjustment
- WB
- Shadow
- Highlight

I believe this is what you can improve based on this photo.


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## Derrel (Dec 14, 2019)

The traffic light is one of the worst things about the background, in my opinion. The person in the blue sweatpants is also quite distracting.


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## terri (Dec 14, 2019)

ph0toe said:


> Hi Sharpshooterr.
> 
> Yes, my posts are real. I subscribe to this forum because I thoroughly want to learn and hone my photography skills, not troll. What is even the point of that.
> Anyways, I realized some my post could be interpreted otherwise, but I promise I mean well. This post I definitely want image critiquing & feedback. thanks!


In the future, please post or upload your images directly into TPF.   We discourage our members from having to click links leading to other sites.  You've gotten a lot of clicks from here over to your site recently, a site that has a store and sells an app, and is also apparently hiring.   

You'll continue to get C&C and feedback on your work, posted right here.   Thanks!


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## ph0toe (Dec 14, 2019)

uh, i don't owned imgur. imgur is free to use. That wasn't even my intention, but yes i will upload my future images directly.


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## Designer (Dec 14, 2019)

I see that nobody has yet offered an edit of their own.  The OP asked what could be done in PS to fix this portrait, so some of you PS guys might consider giving him an edit.


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## terri (Dec 14, 2019)

ph0toe said:


> uh, i don't owned imgur. imgur is free to use. That wasn't even my intention, but yes i will upload my future images directly.


Perfect.


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## Sharpshooterr (Dec 14, 2019)

Designer said:


> I see that nobody has yet offered an edit of their own.  The OP asked what could be done in PS to fix this portrait, so some of you PS guys might consider giving him an edit.



I offered to do a recrop as an example and he didn’t say yes. So best to ask first!
SS


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## DanOstergren (Dec 15, 2019)

Designer said:


> I see that nobody has yet offered an edit of their own.  The OP asked what could be done in PS to fix this portrait, so some of you PS guys might consider giving him an edit.


Ok, is this you volunteering your time? We're waiting.


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## Designer (Dec 15, 2019)

DanOstergren said:


> Designer said:
> 
> 
> > I see that nobody has yet offered an edit of their own.  The OP asked what could be done in PS to fix this portrait, so some of you PS guys might consider giving him an edit.
> ...


I don't have Photoshop.


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## ph0toe (Dec 15, 2019)

Sharpshooterr said:


> Designer said:
> 
> 
> > I see that nobody has yet offered an edit of their own.  The OP asked what could be done in PS to fix this portrait, so some of you PS guys might consider giving him an edit.
> ...




Yes, you're very welcome to freely use the photo as you wish


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## 480sparky (Dec 15, 2019)

ph0toe said:


> Sharpshooterr said:
> 
> 
> > Designer said:
> ...



Wait........ what?  This isn't your photo, but you're telling us we can us it as we wish?


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## Braineack (Dec 15, 2019)

ph0toe said:


> I know the commenter above said photoshop doesn't help a poor photograph, so I guess what can i do to get a better photograph?



Posing, framing, composition, lighting, location, DOF, mood/emotion, communicate story, etc... Most of these things you can't do in Photoshop. 

Sure, it can help save an image, but if you wanna take good photos, you could start with the basic principles of art, basic technical aspects of photography, and try to put it all together on how to use a camera in order to capture the image you want.

Luckily there are a lot of rules-of-thumb when it comes to photography that generally work, and learning/practicing these will help you on your journey.


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## ph0toe (Dec 15, 2019)

480sparky said:


> ph0toe said:
> 
> 
> > Sharpshooterr said:
> ...




Is there any reason you think that?


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## ph0toe (Dec 15, 2019)

Braineack said:


> ph0toe said:
> 
> 
> > I know the commenter above said photoshop doesn't help a poor photograph, so I guess what can i do to get a better photograph?
> ...



I mean yes those can certainly be improved on based off the feedbacks I had received on here.  As far as the image quality and hitting the shutter button did i get the exposure right?

I was on manual mode. I have set the exposure triangle to the numbers based off the setting i was in.


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## 480sparky (Dec 15, 2019)

ph0toe said:


> Wait........ what?  This isn't your photo, but you're telling us we can us it as we wish?



Is there any reason you think that?[/QUOTE]

That it's not your photo?  I dunno.....



ph0toe said:


> .......I received the image as a raw file, uploaded on imgur .....



....I'm kind of silly that way.


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## ph0toe (Dec 15, 2019)

Yes I have stand corrected and addressed that in my prior post. What I mean is my camera captured both raw and jpg files. The one uploaded is obviously jpeg as I am unable to extract raw since the raw images immediately go straight to a software like photoshop or LR


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## Grandpa Ron (Dec 16, 2019)

To me it looks photo shopped. A model cut and pasted in front of a cluttered street scene. Too much eye distraction.

As I see it, the objective is the model, in this case a brightly clad model. I would have used a sparse, neutral, soft focused back ground.

Then the eye dynamics would come from the model and his clothing.


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## ph0toe (Apr 2, 2020)

i can assure you there was not any major retouching done on this photo. just slight increase in color and. probably. exposure. thanks. for the suggestions


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