# Photoshoot I did for an online bakery, C&C please!:)



## Alexandtheng (Sep 28, 2013)

any c & c would be great, let me know what you guys think!

























this one i did for the same bakery but almost a year ago.


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## Light Guru (Sep 29, 2013)

Other then the girl doesn't look like she is really going to eat the brownie, or even wants to eat the brownie they look fine.


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## Alexandtheng (Sep 29, 2013)

haha how could i have shot it to make it look like she's going to eat the brownie?

cause we all had a heck ton of brownies on the day of the shoot


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## tirediron (Sep 29, 2013)

What are you trying to show with these?


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## Alexandtheng (Sep 29, 2013)

the photos are to be used as online advertisements for the brownie bakery


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## tirediron (Sep 29, 2013)

Alexandtheng said:


> the photos are to be used as online advertisements for the brownie bakery


I understand the _purpose_ of the work, but what specific message you are trying send the viewer?


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## Alexandtheng (Sep 29, 2013)

i did not think of that actually, this is one my my first shoots. but generally alone the lines of "these brownies are awesome, order from them!"


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## tirediron (Sep 29, 2013)

For me, that message only comes across #2, and then only slightly. In the rest, the pose, her look and manner say to me, "You want me to eat this?" The photography is good (watch details like the placement of the vase in #4), but to me the message totally misses. For brownies, I think happy family, kids, cozy kitchen, NOT a model in a fancy dress on a white leather sofa.


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## Alexandtheng (Sep 29, 2013)

thanks for the tips there are a few things that "need to be said", and i'm eager to hear your thoughts on that as well.

got your point about not getting the message i wanted across. hopefully it'll be something i get a better hang off with more practice.

regarding the choice of model/set up, if you would kindly look to their site _[url]www.thebrowniemen.com_[/URL] (i hope it's ok for me to put links in here), maybe you can understand why i went with a "model in a fancy dress...." over a family & kids etc? my take on the choice of model/set up was that it fit their "style" somewhat more. of course as i said, this is one of my first jobs, and already it's clear i have a lot to learn. but would you suggest family/kids after looking at their site (assumingof course that you haven't already).


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## Light Guru (Sep 29, 2013)

tirediron said:


> her look and manner say to me, "You want me to eat this?"


Bingo



tirediron said:


> For brownies, I think happy family, kids, cozy kitchen, NOT a model in a fancy dress on a white leather sofa.


Double bingo



Alexandtheng said:


> regarding the choice of model/set up, if you would kindly look to their site



I looked at their site, and there is absolutely nothing there that makes me want a brownie from them. Boxes of brownie mix at the store are more tasty. But that is on them not you. 

If you want to sell a brownie from a photo of a person eating a brownie, they person in the photo should at least look like they are enjoying the brownie.  If you want to go with the classy sexy woman to sell the brownies then the look on her face should be saying this the the best brownie I have ever had, and no man could ever take the place of these brownies.


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## Murray Bloom (Sep 29, 2013)

I don't mind the model choice, but she appears to be obviously posing to me.  The images don't look natural, and as Light Guru wrote, she doesn't look like she actually wants to eat the brownie.  There's no hunger or desire there.  Also, her hair is uncontrolled, which distracts me a lot.  The brownie should be the star, but the shoot seems to concentrate on the girl.  The lighting looks okay, although her skin highlights are a bit too bright.  A decent attempt, but the set needs a rethink.


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## Alexandtheng (Sep 29, 2013)

that's a lot to think about, and good pointers too, has opened my eyes a good bit

thanks!


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## DanOstergren (Sep 29, 2013)

These look great and seem to be shot well. As far as processing goes, I feel that the brightness can be toned down and it could use a curves adjustment. 

My main isue with these is that the focus seems to be on the model, not the brownies. These photos to me don't make me want to eat these brownies at all, and shouldn't that be the point? The focus of these photos to me seems to be all about the models and very little about the brownies. I would like the photos to show detail on the actual product, and the ingredients, as WHY these brownies are good enough for me to purchase them. These photos just aren't selling the brownies because I think they are completely focused on the wrong things.


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## sashbar (Sep 29, 2013)

I am not impressed with images of a girl who looks like throwing out a brownie. I have never ever seen this composition in any food advert and I am sure there is a sold reason for it. A girl with a brownie in her open mouth simply does not look attractive, it sends you a wrong impulse.  I think the reason is because if you want to show a process of eating a brownie the most unfortunate or unpleasant moment is when it is stuck in her open mouth. NO girl would want to be seen like this. It might be technically perfect, to me it does not matter, because the idea, in my view is disastrous. When she holds the brownie, it is ok, but Nos 1,3,4 are just wrong as a food advert in my view.
And compositionally - the brownie is tiny ! I would like to seee a close-up portrait of this beautiful girl smiling and holdin a brownie close to her mouth as if the next moment she is going to gobble it, but do nit show the moment itself, it is not aestetically pleasing, show the moment of anticipation.
The shot with the guy I good, but not as a brownie ad, again, it is small and one has to guess what the hell is this brown stuff..


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## cynicaster (Sep 29, 2013)

Where are the photos of her eating the raw eggs that are sitting on that table?


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## Granddad (Sep 29, 2013)

I'm don't think that "happy family, kids, cozy kitchen" is the target to aim for. That's the American/Canadian model where brownies are as traditional as Mom and apple pie. Even as an Englishman I never experienced brownies till I met the American lady who has been my wife for the last 34 years (she still makes good brownies).
Alexander is in Singapore. The Chinese/Malasian and other cultures there have their own traditional foods that conjure up those images (dim sum, whole roast piglet, red bean soup, sesame cakes etc etc). From looking at the web site the target is young urban professionals who will pay good money to have these foreign delicacies at their upmarket parties and business meetings. They could well achieve this in the same way that sushi has become "the thing to serve" here and in the States.

I think Alexander is on the right path, a bit like the Ferraro Rocher ambassador's advert  from the 70's; only instead of snob appeal it's cool appeal.


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## Low_Sky (Sep 29, 2013)

As others have said, there is a lot about these photos that are just "off" for me.  Technically, I think they are really good, but I am not an experienced photographer.  I _am_ an experienced brownie eater, and no part of me wants these brownies.  Every photo of the model screams "I have no intention of actually eating this thing!" or "there's no way I'm ruining my lipstick for a bite of this".  Things that would make me consider buying brownies online?  
Show the brownies being made, from real ingredients that are better than what comes out of the box at the supermarket.  
Show people eating and enjoying the brownies, or even looking like they want to eat them.  
Macro shot of a warm, moist brownie dressed up with a dusting of powdered sugar, some chocolate sauce swirled on a white plate with some berries or something as a garnish.  
How are these awesome, decadent brownies packaged?  Will they still be awesome when they get to my house?

Without getting into a long speech on brownie culture, these photos need to tell viewers "these 2-day-old brownies from the mail are better than what you can make yourself and enjoy warm from the oven".  That is a really, really tough sell.


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## tirediron (Sep 29, 2013)

You've obviously got the photography weighed off; what is needed is a creative/artistic director who can provide some guidance on what & how the shoots should be done.  I take your point about the 'family in the kitchen' maybe is not keeping with their image, but I don't think these images send the right message either.


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## Alexandtheng (Sep 29, 2013)

thanks guys, while my pride is a little crushed (i kid), the advice has been great. to be honest i was very much focusing on the lighting and the model (portrait photographer here, haha) and did not put much thought into the "commercial" aspect of it. you've given me quite a lot to think about...will probably re-think & shoot this.

Grandad, thanks once again for the encouragement!


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## Granddad (Sep 30, 2013)

Alexandtheng said:


> .... Grandad, thanks once again for the encouragement!



If I make it to Singapore before I die you can buy me a jasmine tea and a brownie.


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## amolitor (Sep 30, 2013)

These photos could work well to sell a "super-premium" brownie mix, potentially. It's "super-premium" and "brownie mix" are not two phrases that mate well, but all that really means is that the category is there to be taken.

I wouldn't have her eating the brownies at all, I'd have her with the brownies, looking at them, holding them, whatever.

This austere quasi-high-fashion look isn't going to play well with the flirty/fun/yummy feeling you're going for, but it CA work. Just think "austere fashion super-premium luxury brownie" instead of "yummy delicious" and you'll be most of the way there.

An alternative would be to make it a parody of the high fashion look. Then you want to push the flirty/fun thing much harder, maybe even go a bit messy. These are brownies so good that they make the models go nuts. You might style the set to make it look like you were shooting for YSL or someone, selling a purse or some luggage, and the brownies were brought to the set as snacks, and the shoot got ruined by BROWNIES EVERYWHERE.

Anyways. There are some moods and ideas that could work here, I just feel like you gotta pick one and push it hard.


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## amolitor (Sep 30, 2013)

Also, when the couch is only slightly separated from the wall, it looks kind of weird.


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## Derrel (Sep 30, 2013)

Well...I stopped by their web site, and saw the side-view picture of a brownie, on a wooden cutting board, which was on top of a yellow fabric swatch, with an OOF kitchen counter backdrop...Ugggg...what a BORING view of a brownie! Much of a brownie's appeal is the top-view of it, seen simultaneously with a side view...the shot shown on the site   Brownies ? The Brownie Men   shows the brownie looking thin, dense, not flaky, not succulent, and looking like an old kitchen sponge...simply awful.

As to the model...she's not helping. The brownie with a fork shot has the most potential; she needs to be holding the fork like it's a ****....anticipating the brownie, making the brownie be the STAR of the shot. The shots of her with the brownie stuck in her teeth....no, not working. The majority of advertising shots that succeeed have at least some degree of subliminal sexuality...these need art direction to be successful. I'm not sure WHAT the bakers are going for, but the flat, thin, dense, ugly, sponge-like brownie shown on the web site's main page is an awful example of a brownie...it looks dreadful. Let's think "highlight control" and "lighting", as well as "propping of the shot in commercial photography."...

photos of brownies - Google Search

Just *a few dozen examples* of brownies that do not look like a *filthy,disgusting old synthetic sponge...*


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## Low_Sky (Sep 30, 2013)

Derrel, you are clearly a man who understands brownies. One of my favorite things about brownies is the light, flaky crust on top. I have noticed that all of these photos show the brownies flipped upside down, showing the boring bottom side. This thread has made me spend far too much time thinking about brownies... 

Sent from my phone with my giant, uncoordinated sausage thumbs.


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## Granddad (Oct 1, 2013)

*Note to self* Humbly beg and beseech the wife to make a batch of her super hi-end brownies for me to photograph.


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## ffarl (Oct 1, 2013)

Hate the plastic fork.  Love everything else.

  Correction, upon further investigation, it looks like it might be a real fork, but you have to try real hard.


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## Derrel (Oct 1, 2013)

ffarl said:


> Hate the plastic fork.  Love everything else.
> 
> Correction, upon further investigation, it looks like it might be a real fork, but you have to try real hard.



In the same shot, the large brownie on the plate has a tall edge, and is squished down and compacted in the center...indicating a baking disaster and shoddy product...plus, the top of the brownie looks...again, sponge-like! Where is the flaky crust on the product? The product on the serving plate looks poorly made..no flaky crust on top, just porous, almost-black cake-like product. Their "brownie" looks suspiciously like cheap chocolate cake mix, baked with extra oil added... The fork looks like a plastic fork because the end of the fork handle is hidden within her hand, indicating a short, small fork, and the top of the fork is rendered as a bright, almost-white specular highlight reflecting the lighting, thus visually "reading" as white, ergo, plastic fork. Her grip on the fork is not quite right for a photo. (see my earlier post for a suggestion on fork grip...)

In food shots, the food itself has to appear delicious. These guys appear to be unable to bake brownies that are the same thickness in the middle as at the edges...and when the EDGE of a big slab of brownie appears twice as tall as the middle of the same slab...the product itself shows it is sub-standard and inferior. There's just no way around it...the middle of the slab is sunken, and it looks terrible, so next time, make sure the food is prepared properly, or if not, then trim it, or doctor it up, so it LOOKS properly-made.


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## ffarl (Oct 1, 2013)

Congrats on being hired to shoot a commercial for the Ford Motor Company.  It's a horrible choice of paint for that car, and I hate where they've located the gas cap.  The pinstripes make the think of 1978 Honda Civic and the hatchback model is an abomination.  Also, I went by their website and noticed that there's been a recall on that model that severely endangers the safety of any infant seated in the passenger side while the airbags are engaged...

    Am I off base here?


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## Derrel (Oct 1, 2013)

ffarl said:


> Congrats on being hired to shoot a commercial for the Ford Motor Company.  It's a horrible choice of paint for that car, and I hate where they've located the gas cap.  The pinstripes make the think of 1978 Honda Civic and the hatchback model is an abomination.  Also, I went by their website and noticed that there's been a recall on that model that severely endangers the safety of any infant seated in the passenger side while the airbags are engaged...
> 
> Am I off base here?



I dunno...it's difficult to know exactly what the point is, what with all the sarcasm dripping from it. It's not 100% evident what your point actually is, ffarl...

I used to assist a commercial photographer in the pre-Photoshop days, when every single product that came in to be photographed HAD to be prepped, food had to be styled, and we spent a lot of time making sure the products were "*fit for photography*".

The brownie that's slopped onto the plate could have easily been trimmed so it's the same thickness. That would be the food stylist's job, to correct the blunder of the alleged pastry chef. But, in this day and age of low photo budgets and no art direction, ultimately the photographer is responsible for every,single thing in his or her photos. This is, after all the *Commercial/Product Photography* forum; commercial product and food photography is a very demanding specialty that requires a high degree of photographic skill, as well as knowledge.

When a product is not "fit for photography", then the photographer must decide how to handle it. The simple fact here is that these commercial/product photos are all,each and every one, plagued by nagging issues of various types. The Ford Motor Company advertisement would come with an art director, a senior AD, three assistants, and a three-man crew, plus the photographer, and probably two grip guys, and a $180,000 budget. Every single inch of the product would be groomed and inspected, and the paint color and wheels and every,single detail of the product would have passed muster before the studio lights were even flipped on. And it would have been shopped out to a professional with immense skill and experience.


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## ffarl (Oct 1, 2013)

It sounds like you were able to discern my point, despite the sarcasm.  

   I have a LOT more experience in the food industry than I do in photography, but food is just as subjective as photography.  One man's brownie is another mans failed cake mix, and OP could be dealing with someone who believes they've got their sh!t together entirely.  I would say a great way to lose a client would be to suggest to the bakery owner that their product is unfit for public viewing.  

   Now you gotta be a gawd dang brownie expert to be a photographer.  Shucks.

   Anyway, just trying to wind you up a bit, and offer a different viewpoint.  The brownie people knew it was photo shoot day.  That's what they gave her.


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## astroNikon (Oct 1, 2013)

I'm a newbie on artistic stuff
but myself and my kids like brownies
so my 2 cents

The main brownie (5 & 6) does look upside down and not appealing - I think Derrel said "sponge" looking.  Whereas the chunks off to the side do show off the flaky top.  Flip the big brownie over to show off the flaky chocolate layer.  And maybe tilt the plate a bit to show it off a bit better.

The model I think is great but she looks like she does NOT want to eat one - I know it is kinda a hip, fun type shot but not wanting to eat one makes me not want to eat one.  If her lips were around the brownie taking a real bite then it would be better.  Have the model actually eat and chew a couple (she could still spit them out).  did she even eat one ??  Looks like she is totally adverse to, which affects the people wanting to buy some.

the fork does look fake, get a real stainless steel fork with mass to it.  A gold plated one might make it look "richer" too.

great camera & lighting work to me


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## Derrel (Oct 1, 2013)

ffarl said:


> Congrats on being hired to shoot a commercial for the Ford Motor Company.  It's a horrible choice of paint for that car, and I hate where they've located the gas cap.  The pinstripes make the think of 1978 Honda Civic and the hatchback model is an abomination.  Also, I went by their website and noticed that there's been a recall on that model that severely endangers the safety of any infant seated in the passenger side while the airbags are engaged...
> 
> Am I off base here?



Please re-read the first 18 posts.

There is plenty wrong here besides the "product" itself. Again...take careful note of the responses provided by the multiple respondents in the first 18 posts. There are misfires in every area of this, one of the OP's "first shoots".

Blaming "the product"? Why are we even here? Why are we even offering our suggestions and criticisms and insights on this forum?


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## amolitor (Oct 1, 2013)

I dunno, Ford might just start pulling pictures off instagram for their ads!


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## ffarl (Oct 1, 2013)

"There is plenty wrong here besides the "product" itself."

   That was kind of exactly my point.  I thought the critiques that pointed those things out were mostly helpful.  I'm not trying to change your mind, or force you into an existential journey.  I'm just offering my point that in every situation, there are things we can control and things we can't and/or shouldn't.  I think maybe there was enough to keep us busy without going into the chosen brownie recipe. 

   This is my first internet  argument of any sort.  Am I doing ok?


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## Derrel (Oct 1, 2013)

amolitor said:


> I dunno, Ford might just start pulling pictures off instagram for their ads!



Look at the support trucks for this "low-budget", "indy" Ford advertising shoot...

http://www.sondersphotography.com/b...ford-motor-company-ford-focus-in-los-angeles/

Ford was a leader in allowing independent, amateur photographers to actually shoot some regional ads, beginning over 10 years ago, with their contest, run in concert with Popular Photography & Imaging magazine; they invited submissions for amateurs and small-time pros from all over to submit; the winners were allowed to shoot ads for Ford. LOTS of free publicity.

So, while you make jokes about what the "new, hip" internet-era companies are now just starting to do (using outside-the-system-origin images, and social media images) Ford was beating the bushes, trying to find "*authentic*", and "real" photos beginning well over a decade ago...


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## amolitor (Oct 1, 2013)

I'm only slightly joking, actually. I'm mostly trolling, since instagram is a word that generally brings out the attack dogs here.

It's pretty obviously the way of the future, especially when you intermix it with social media: Photos and Stuff: Advertising and Social Media


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## Granddad (Oct 1, 2013)

ffarl said:


> Congrats on being hired to shoot a commercial for the Ford Motor Company.  It's a horrible choice of paint for that car, and I hate where they've located the gas cap.  The pinstripes make the think of 1978 Honda Civic and the hatchback model is an abomination.  Also, I went by their website and noticed that there's been a recall on that model that severely endangers the safety of any infant seated in the passenger side while the airbags are engaged...
> 
> Am I off base here?



LOL!!! However, I think Alex has a bit more say in the matter and the criticism of the looks of the product is valid. If I were invited to shoot Ford cars I'd be charging them an arm and three legs so I'd be a diva photographer because they need to get their money's worth. I'd rather throw the job than take photos that wouldn't work because it'd be my reputation that would go down the tubes along with the model of car.

Derrel (as resident brownie expert) does have a point. The brownies look like something I'd find at a Tesco supermarket, they're photographed upside down looking like a heavy sponge cake when the brownies I'm familiar with have a much more attractive crispy coating on the top side. ... and they have indeed sunk in the middle. Using a batch that has sunk in the middle is not a good move for a high end market product - any baker will recognise that as a symptom of an incorrect oven temperature. The photos may be technically excellent but Alex can up his reputation by helping them correct these things and getting the marketing right. 

Edit: I had a phone call in the middle of typing this, came back, finished and posted only to find that the discussion had moved on quite a bit....


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## paigew (Oct 1, 2013)

I agree get a kid to do the shoot, not some sexy super skinny model  I mean, your trying to sell junk food! LOL


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## Tiller (Oct 1, 2013)

paigew said:


> I agree get a kid to do the shoot, not some sexy super skinny model  I mean, your trying to sell junk food! LOL



I think that's the point. If some skinny supermodel can eat sweets, that means I can too!


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## Alexandtheng (Oct 2, 2013)

thanks for the comments guys, a lot to be learnt so thanks. the brownie guys n myself pretty much have had to learn everything on our own. so all these tips will come a long way in helping.

we had the brownies, seriously they are delicious, i probably just did a poor job on photographing it. will rethink and reshoot again if i have to


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## tirediron (Oct 2, 2013)

Alexandtheng said:


> thanks for the comments guys, a lot to be learnt so thanks. the brownie guys n myself pretty much have had to learn everything on our own. so all these tips will come a long way in helping.
> 
> we had the brownies, seriously they are delicious, *i probably just did a poor job on photographing it*. will rethink and reshoot again if i have to


The photography was fine, but the produce wasn't ideal.  Prep & styling is HUGE for food work.  I can't access it at the moment, but if you search YouTube there's an EXCELLENT 'behind the scenes' video of a shoot for McDonald's (possibly more than one) by a well known food photographer.  The job was a single image of a cheeseburger for a poster.  At the end of the day, they got the image and went through countless patties, buns and condiments.  You're not photographing the food the way it looks, you're photographing the food the way you want it to look.


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## Joanne_0828 (Oct 3, 2013)

The first one look a bit dull, most likely due to the girl's expression. The rest are cool!


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## cbarnard7 (Oct 3, 2013)

If I used that model, I would have cropped her so she's only in the frame from the waist, up. I'd have her pose holding a half-eaten brownie, chewing on the other half with a  (looking like she's actually enjoying the product).

Similar (but not as dramatic) as this: 
http://cdn.ispot.tv/image/ad/7dDV~7~800.jpg

Otherwise, I think I would use kids and make it light- unless the company wants to look more "high-end"


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